U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

26–770 PDF WASHINGTON : 2018

S. Hrg. 115–356 

NOMINATION OF HON. ELAINE C. DUKE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

NOMINATION OF THE HONORABLE ELAINE C. DUKE TO BE DEPUTY 

SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

MARCH 8, 2017 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin, Chairman 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

STEVE DAINES, Montana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

JON TESTER, Montana 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire 

KAMALA D. HARRIS, California 

CHRISTOPHER R. HIXON, Staff Director 

GABRIELLE D’ADAMO SINGER, Chief Counsel 

MARGARET E. DAUM, Minority Staff Director 

ANNA E. LAITIN, Minority Policy Adviser 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

BONNI E. DINERSTEIN, Hearing Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 1 

Senator McCaskill ............................................................................................ 2 

Senator Hassan ................................................................................................. 14 

Senator Harris .................................................................................................. 16 

Senator Heitkamp ............................................................................................ 18 

Senator Tester .................................................................................................. 21 

Senator Lankford .............................................................................................. 23 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 33 

Senator McCaskill ............................................................................................ 34 

WITNESSES 

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 8, 2017 

Hon. Rob Portman, a U.S. Senator from the State of Ohio 4 

Hon. Elaine C. Duke, to be Deputy Secretary, U.S. Department of Homeland 

Security 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 37 

Biographical and financial information .......................................................... 39 

Letter from the Office of Government Ethics ................................................. 57 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 60 

Responses to post-hearing questions .............................................................. 95 

Letter of support ............................................................................................... 117 

APPENDIX 

Chart Submitted by Senator Harris ....................................................................... 119 

Immigration Panel Transcript Submitted by Senator Harris .............................. 120 

Letter from the Coalition for Human Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles ............ 200 

(1) 

NOMINATION OF HONORABLE ELAINE C. 

DUKE 

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 8, 2017 

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:33 a.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ron Johnson, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Johnson, Portman, Lankford, Daines, 

McCaskill, Tester, Heitkamp, Peters, Hassan, and Harris. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHNSON 

Chairman JOHNSON. Good morning. The hearing will come to 

order. We are meeting today to consider the nomination of Ms. 

Elaine Duke to be Deputy Secretary of the U.S. Department of 

Homeland Security (DHS). Ms. Duke, welcome. Senator Portman, 

welcome. You have your position there, but you will hopefully come 

up on the dais here. 

I do want to welcome Ms. Duke’s family, and I will let you introduce your family during your opening remarks. 

This is an incredibly important position. I believe this is an incredibly important Department, particularly at the current time. 

The mission statement of this Committee is pretty straightforward—and I appreciate my new Ranking Member adding to 

it—but it is simple to state: to enhance the economic and national 

security of America and promote a more efficient, effective, and accountable government. And certainly from the homeland security 

side of it, we are really talking about the primary goals of securing 

our border, securing our homeland, our cyber assets, cybersecurity, 

protecting critical infrastructure, and combating violent extremism 

in any form. 

Ms. Duke, I appreciated the time we spent in the office. I 

thought it was interesting, and I am completely supportive of, I 

think, the management style and the management directed between yourself and the Secretary. It sounds like Secretary Kelly is 

going to be the boots on the ground, looking at the front lines, finding out what is happening there, really at the point of the spear. 

And you will be back here in Washington, D.C., holding down the 

fort. And you realize, because you have been there before, that 

there are a number of challenges with the Department. And so I 

appreciate your experience. I appreciate your willingness to serve. 
2 

1The prepared statement of Senator McCaskill appears in the Appendix on page 34. 

I do not have a whole lot more to say. I will let Senator Portman 

do the introduction, but we will first turn it over to Senator 

McCaskill for her opening statement. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCASKILL1

Senator MCCASKILL. Thank you, Chairman Johnson, and welcome, Ms. Duke. I always like it when a valuable public servant 

returns, and it is one of the things, I think, that is most frustrating 

about the current political climate, that there are too many people 

out there giving the impression that everybody who works in government is somehow lazy or corrupt or not dedicated. And, clearly, 

you have made a choice which is not based on finances to come 

back to this work, and I am very appreciative of that. And I think 

the American people should be, too. 

As you know from your many years at the Department of Homeland Security, your role is going to be an incredibly important one. 

While the Secretary has to look at the big picture, you, in fact, are 

going to be charged with making the trains run on time and managing the day-to-day operations of the Department. 

When Secretary Kelly’s nomination was in front of this Committee, I told him he was going to need a top-notch Deputy for 

Management. I am pleased to see that he has, in fact, chosen someone with significant managerial experience, but someone also who 

has shown a respect for taxpayer dollars. 

Since the nomination, my staff and I have heard from many DHS 

former employees and officials about your strong qualifications for 

this position. It includes a formal endorsement signed by the previous five Deputy Secretaries of Homeland Security attesting to 

your integrity and skill. I have been glad to hear from each of these 

endorsements because you face a formidable task. 

The Department of Homeland Security is the third largest Federal agency in this country with a $46 billion budget. It is charged 

with some of the most important duties in our government such as 

overseeing cybersecurity, immigration, homeland defense, and 

emergency management. It is also an agency that has faced persistent challenges of unity of effort, acquisitions, and personnel. 

As you have acknowledged, DHS continues to struggle with cohesion and mission among its many components. Many of its acquisition programs have been plagued by backlogs, delays, and budget 

shortfalls. In terms of employee morale, the Department is consistently ranked as one of the worst places to work in the Federal Government. 

Gratefully, the Department has made strides in recent years on 

all of these fronts—procurement, acquisitions, jointness, and morale. I know you played a role in many of those efforts in your time 

at the Department. If you are confirmed, it will be of the utmost 

importance that you continue pushing these approaches because recent improvements cannot be allowed to roll back. 

As the Chief Operating Officer (COO) of this agency, I expect 

that you will always approach new and existing programs with a 

critical eye on how they can effectively achieve their missions and 

more efficiently spend taxpayer dollars. As the Department con-
3 

1The letter of support referenced by Senator McCaskill appears in the Appendix on page 117. 

2The prepared statement of Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 33. 

tinues to be thrust into the spotlight and entrusted with some of 

the highest priorities of this Administration, the job of Deputy Secretary in maintaining high operational standards, and particularly 

acquisition standards, in this evolving environment will be difficult. 

I was pleased to see that you have made a strong written commitment to responding to requests for information from any Member of this Committee, and I underline ‘‘any’’ Member of this Committee. So far, the Department of Homeland Security has done a 

very poor job of responding to such requests. Since becoming Ranking Member of this Committee, I have sent a number of requests 

for information in order to uphold my duty to oversee the agency 

and its actions. But DHS is failing to uphold its duty to respond 

to these requests. 

So far, I have outstanding requests about the implementation 

and details of President Trump’s numerous Executive Orders (EO), 

requests about how the Department is going to respond to the Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports and recommendations 

regarding whistleblower protections and the acquisition of the border wall, and even a request for two statutorily mandated 

cybersecurity reports to Congress that were due over a month ago. 

In addition, this complete lack of transparency escalated to the 

point where the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) 

refused my invitation to appear at a hearing last week. If you are 

truly committed to transparency, I hope you will agree with me 

that this is absolutely unacceptable. 

When Secretary Kelly came in front of this Committee for his 

nomination, he made similar commitments to be responsive to Congress. But as evidenced by my outstanding requests for information, he has yet to keep his commitment. 

So today I am going to need assurances from you that, if you are 

confirmed, you will use your managerial duty in that role to ensure 

that this crucial aspect of responding to oversight of this Committee is no longer overlooked and that requests for transparency 

from Congress are important to the operation of your public agency 

and, therefore, in turn the American people and taxpayers will be 

treated with respect. 

I thank you for being here today, and I look forward to your testimony. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator McCaskill. 

I would ask unanimous consent to enter the letter that you mentioned, written to us by James Loy, Michael Jackson, Paul Schneider, Jane Lute, and Alejandro Mayorkas in support of Ms. Duke’s 

confirmation, into the record,1 as well as my opening statement.2

I will say just in terms of oversight that this Committee is dedicated to oversight over the Department. I think our first order of 

business, though, is to make sure that we staff and confirm positions like the Deputy Secretary, and certainly give you an opportunity to get into your position, enact your policies, give them time 

to actually work so we can start assessing them. But as Senator 

McCaskill did note, there are a number of reports that are due, and 

that is going to be kind of a catch-up process for you. But this Com-
4 

mittee will be dedicated to working very closely with you to make 

sure that you succeed in your mission, but we will provide the necessary oversight at the appropriate time. 

With that, I would like to call on Senator Rob Portman, who 

would like to introduce Ms. Duke. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ROB PORTMAN, A 

UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF OHIO 

Senator PORTMAN. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate 

the opportunity to do so, and let me say first that I agree with both 

of you on the importance of this position at a critical time at the 

Department of Homeland Security, and, therefore, it is my privilege to be here to introduce Elaine Duke. We need her. She is the 

nominee for Deputy Secretary, a key management role, as has been 

discussed, and I believe General Kelly and the men and women at 

the Department of Homeland Security and our country, in fact, are 

really fortunate that she is willing to step forward and serve again. 

She has experience, she has a great perspective, she has integrity, 

and I think that will serve her and the Department well. 

We are proud to claim her as an Ohio native. She grew up in 

North Olmsted in the Cleveland area. Her dad, Frank Costanzo, is 

a first-generation American, still a very proud Cleveland resident. 

I have known Elaine’s uncle for over 25 years. She indicated to me 

this morning she hoped that he had not shared with me any of her 

teenage stories, and he has not. He has only shared good things, 

and he is a very proud uncle as well as a good friend and neighbor 

of mine. 

The pride in Elaine’s accomplishments, in fact, run deep throughout her entire family. They are rooting for her today. She has a 

very distinguished career in public service. As you know, she started her career as a GS–7 contract specialist for the U.S. Air Force 

(USAF). Over the next 28 years, she assumed roles of increasing 

responsibility in the Air Force, the Navy, the Federal Railroad Administration, the Smithsonian, and, finally the Department of 

Homeland Security, where in 2008 she was confirmed by the Senate to serve as Under Secretary for Management. 

In this final role, she was a key member of the DHS leadership 

team for both Secretaries Chertoff and Napolitano, and through 

this professional journey, she has established herself as a true expert on some of the tough issues that the Department faces, including contracting, acquisition, property management, organization 

change, human resources (HR), as the Chairman and Ranking 

Member have said, all of extreme importance to DHS right now. 

As Members of this Committee know well, now over 14 years 

after the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security, 

there are significant management challenges that remain. Integrating the various cultures and processes and systems of 22 components of the Department continues. Frankly, in my view, it has 

been more difficult than I had hoped it would be. We needed, in 

my view, to have consolidation of these responsibilities to better 

protect our country, but we still have a long way to go in ensuring 

all these cultures come together in an appropriate way. 

So establishing adequate headquarters-level support, oversight of 

Department functions, and, in particular, major acquisition pro-
5 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Duke appears in the Appendix on page 37. 

grams is still a work in progress. Recruiting, retaining, and leading 

the over 200,000 Department employees is an evolving challenge. 

I think Ms. Duke is well qualified to help Secretary Kelly tackle 

these challenges, and, again, I trust that he will rely on her significantly for a number of his most critical management initiatives in 

the Department. 

I am sure we will have a very fruitful discussion with the nominee today, and I plan to ask her a few tough questions myself. But 

I hope we can then move forward after a constructive dialogue and 

get her to the floor for a vote and get her in place. We need her, 

and we need her now at the Department of Homeland Security. 

Thank you again for allowing me to say a few words this morning. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Portman. I am hoping 

you are not going to delve into her teenage years. [Laughter.] 

It is the tradition of this Committee to swear in witnesses, so if 

you will rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this Committee will be the truth, the 

whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? 

Ms. DUKE. I do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Please be seated. 

Ms. Elaine Duke has had a career in government spanning nearly 30 years, beginning as a contracting officer at the U.S. Air Force 

and culminating with her Senate confirmation as the Under Secretary for Management of the Department of Homeland Security on 

June 27, 2008. She remained in that position under President 

Obama and ultimately retired in 2010, but has agreed to answer 

the call to return to the Department 7 years later. 

Ms. Duke holds a B.S. degree in business management from 

Southern New Hampshire University and an M.B.A. from 

Chaminade University. 

Ms. Duke, I am grateful for your commitment to the Department 

of Homeland Security and your willingness to serve. I yield the 

floor. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE ELAINE C. DUKE1 TO BE 

DEPUTY SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Ms. DUKE. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member McCaskill, and distinguished Senators of this Committee, thank you for holding this 

hearing to consider my nomination to become Deputy Secretary of 

Homeland Security, and thank you, Senator Portman, for the kind 

introduction. My Midwestern upbringing really shaped my values 

and made me the person I am today, and I am proud to call myself 

a Buckeye. 

First, I would like to extend my thanks to President Trump and 

Secretary Kelly for the great trust they have placed in my abilities 

to manage the Department’s daily operations. I am very honored 

to be nominated for this position. 

I would like to thank the former Deputy Secretaries of Homeland 

Security for their encouragement throughout this process. I draw 

strength and inspiration from their support and counsel. 
6 

I would like to introduce my family who is here with me today: 

my husband, Harold; my youngest son, Jason; and my youngest sister, Cynthia. I would like to specifically recognize my husband for 

supporting my decision to return back to service. It is a sacrifice 

for our lifestyle, and I am grateful for his unwavering support and 

his service to our country by virtue of my service. Also, my son 

Brian, who is not with me here today, has provided me encouragement and support throughout this process. 

And, finally, I would like to recognize my father, Frank Costanzo. 

He cannot be here physically with me today, but I know he is 

cheering me on, just as he did when I was interviewed for my first 

entry-level civil service position 35 years ago. 

It would be an honor to serve as Secretary Kelly’s Deputy. I 

would welcome the privilege of supporting him as he leads the Department in securing this homeland. When I retired from civil service just shy of 7 years ago, I thought I had retired permanently. 

However, when I received the call, like many of you, I immediately 

knew I must say yes. 

More than 15 years after 9/11, this country continues to face 

many challenges in homeland security. But Americans must be 

able to go about their daily lives free from fear and secure in the 

knowledge that they and their loved ones may walk down the 

street or go to the mall in peace. DHS is addressing this threat and 

ensuring the homeland is protected, and if confirmed, I look forward to joining that continuing fight. 

In the last 8 years of my 28 years of public service, I served at 

the DHS. I understand the complex challenges of DHS’ missions; 

the complex oversight; the diverse concerns of its many missions; 

the urgency of its work; and the complexity of running such a large 

Department. But I also know the Department’s employees are the 

most dedicated and passionate civil servants with whom I have 

ever had the pleasure of working. If confirmed, I pledge to lead 

them in producing results for our beloved Nation. 

Additionally, if confirmed, I promise to lead DHS in enforcing the 

law with respect and integrity. I will be honest in my assessments 

and recommendations, and relentless in pursuing excellence. My 

such commitments are critical at this juncture in homeland security. 

I will do everything in my power to preserve our liberty, enforce 

our laws, and protect our citizens. I recognize the many challenges 

facing DHS, and if confirmed, I look forward to partnering with all 

of you in protecting the homeland. 

I fully understand the role of the Congress in its oversight and 

support to the Department. Throughout my career in government, 

I have always strived to work in a collaborative manner with Members of Congress and their staff and other oversight agencies. I will 

continue this approach with Secretary Kelly. 

I thank you for this opportunity. I am happy to answer your 

questions at this time. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Ms. Duke. I have three baseline 

questions. 

First of all, is there anything you are aware of in your background that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of 

the office to which you have been nominated? 
7 

Ms. DUKE. No, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Do you know of anything, personal or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably 

discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been 

nominated? 

Ms. DUKE. No. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Do you agree without reservation to comply 

with any request or summons to appear and testify before any duly 

constituted Committee of Congress if you are confirmed? 

Ms. DUKE. I do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. Again, Ms. Duke, I appreciate 

your willingness to serve. Having served, having gone back in the 

private sector, running a successful consulting business on the outside, you have certainly made some points in your opening statement, but I just want to ask kind of from the heart: Why are you 

willing to do this again? You know this is not going to be an easy 

job. Again, I appreciate the sacrifice that your husband and your 

family are going to incur as well. This is a 24/7 job. Can you just 

explain in your own words why? 

Ms. DUKE. I think I watched from election day through December 

the unrest in the country, the protests, the concern over our future, 

and I feel like through the request to serve, I have a unique opportunity to make a difference in this really challenging time. I believe 

that Secretary Kelly and I can work together not only in enforcing 

the laws and the policies of this Administration, but doing it in a 

way that demonstrates integrity and compassion, and I feel like I 

can do good in moving this country forward, and that I need to accept that responsibility. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Can you describe to me, just bullet point, 

and it does not have to be three, but your top priorities, maybe top 

three, if you have them? What is the first thing you are going to 

address? 

Ms. DUKE. The first thing I am going to address is the men and 

women of Homeland Security and thank them for their support 

through the process. In terms of within the Department, the first 

thing I would address is bringing the components together and 

having our own cabinet, if you will, and starting to lead in the joint 

operations that we need to better secure our homeland. 

Chairman JOHNSON. You were obviously there before, and the 

Department has historically had some of the lowest morale. Do you 

have an explanation for that? And, again, I appreciate the fact that 

your first task then is to go and thank them. That will certainly 

boost morale. But do you have an explanation yourself, having been 

there, why that is? 

Ms. DUKE. I have two major explanations. One is they have not 

been communicated with completely and respected always within 

and outside. I think that what I would try to do is make them understand the value of the mission and the context of the mission 

so they understand how important it is, they understand the system they are working in and how much it is valued. 

I think also it is difficult because most of our people work in a 

very public situation, and so I would be working toward some of 

the areas to make the workforce more professional and more respected by the American people. 
8 

Chairman JOHNSON. Having served in this Committee now for 6 

years, recognizing when the Department was set up it was a number of agencies, 22 agencies cobbled together, each has their own 

reporting requirements to different committees and subcommittees 

of Congress, and, quite honestly, I think it is difficult to even determine the number, but it is a lot. 

First of all, how did you deal with that in your previous service? 

And can you just kind of speak to how distracting that is to the 

men and women within the Department of Homeland Security in 

terms of keeping your eye and your concentration and your focus 

on your real mission of keeping the homeland safe and secure? 

Ms. DUKE. Well, the way I dealt with it in my last service and 

will now is a mutual respect. We have three branches of government for a reason, and I respect your oversight role, and I will always treat it with that respect. It does become one of the nearly 

full-time jobs of leaders to manage that so that the workforce can 

actually do their job. 

One of the ways I would like to do it—and I offered this to most 

of you in my initial meetings—is to work with you in a collaborative and open way, so the need to have formal hearings is diminished and we can work out issues in other ways and move the ball 

forward. 

Chairman JOHNSON. One thing that has frustrated me, coming 

from a manufacturing background, I need information. To solve 

any problem, you need information. This has just been unbelievably frustrating, my inability to get decent information. One thing 

I have noticed in President Trump’s Executive Orders, almost to an 

order there is always some requirement in there for more information, better information to move forward and make a decision. 

First of all, do you agree with me in that assessment in terms 

of the lack of relevant information, consistent information? First 

answer that question. 

Ms. DUKE. I do agree with you, yes. 

Chairman JOHNSON. So can you also commit then to helping and 

working with us to develop the kind of metrics, the kind of information we really need so we can enact good policy? 

Ms. DUKE. Absolutely. We need better data, more accurate data 

to make the best decisions for our country. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. With that, I will turn it over to Senator 

McCaskill. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

From our visit, I understand that you have the most important 

asset in your life in my State, a granddaughter. 

Ms. DUKE. Yes. 

Senator MCCASKILL. So I am pleased to hear that she lives in 

Cass County, in Raymore, just south of Kansas City, and we will 

be happy to welcome you to the State as frequently as you need 

to come to get the granddaughter fix, which I have a feeling you 

will need in the coming days because of the stress that you are 

going to endure. 

Ms. Duke, I assume, because of your background in acquisition, 

you believe that any large capital expenditure should have a costbenefit analysis. 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, I do. 
9 

Senator MCCASKILL. And you are aware, of course, that there 

has been no cost-benefit analysis performed on this wall. 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, and I understand that U.S. Customs and Border 

Protection (CBP) is preparing that. 

Senator MCCASKILL. OK. And there has been no money appropriated for this wall, correct? 

Ms. DUKE. There is currently no money other than existing 

money in the CBP border security fencing, infrastructure and technology (BISFIT) account. 

Senator MCCASKILL. But, actually, they have to allow that to be 

reprogrammed, correct? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, that is correct. 

Senator MCCASKILL. And it is my understanding that in order to 

keep Congressional oversight and Congressional power in check, 

which I believe all the Members of Congress want as it relates to 

Executive Orders, there has to be a sign-off by the Ranking and 

Chair of the Appropriations Subcommittee for reprogramming 

those appropriations. 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, that is my understanding. 

Senator MCCASKILL. And are you aware that has not occurred? 

Ms. DUKE. I am aware. 

Senator MCCASKILL. OK. So we have no sign-off for reprogramming whatsoever on this wall, and we have no cost-benefit analysis 

for the wall. 

Now, let me go further. Part of that analysis must be that when 

you spend money in one area and take it away from another area, 

you have to analyze the threat risk. And we spend a lot of time on 

threat risk at the Department of Homeland Security. 

Ms. DUKE. Yes. 

Senator MCCASKILL. In fact, some of the cuts that are being proposed to biodefense I could not agree with more, because there was 

a whole lot of money wasted there in light of the threats that face 

our country, a lot of money on something that was not really a 

threat when we had real threats that were not being addressed. 

So are you aware of any analysis that has been done that would 

say that it makes more sense to build a wall places along the border where the Border Patrol even says they do not want it or need 

it, and at the same time take a cut to the Coast Guard that would 

seriously impair the ability for us to intercept heroin that is the 

most deadly problem facing our country? 

Ms. DUKE. That analysis is in progress, to my understanding, 

and I can commit to you, Senator, that, if confirmed, I would be 

using that analysis in moving forward. 

Senator MCCASKILL. The same thing would apply to the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) cuts that are being proposed to pay for this wall where no one has said that that wall is 

actually going to make us demonstrably safer or secure? The TSA 

cuts, the Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response (VIPR) 

teams are being proposed to be cut, and, of course, the VIPR teams 

are the ones that we rely on to keep our airports safe in light of 

the tragedies that have occurred around the world. Has there been 

any analysis that the VIPR teams are less important than part of 

the wall in places where there really is no utilitarian reason for a 

wall because of the geography of the border? 
10 

Ms. DUKE. I have not been involved in those discussions, but if 

confirmed, I would be looking at the budget, and that would be a 

major part of my role as the Chief Operating Officer. 

Senator MCCASKILL. So I know you are aware that good acquisition planning requires not only a focus on the present contract but 

lifecycle. I know you are very familiar with this because of your 

work in acquisition. Are you aware of any lifecycle cost analysis 

that has been conducted prior to the pre-solicitation notice that has 

been sent out on the border wall prototype acquisition? 

Ms. DUKE. My understanding is that that is in process, but I do 

not know if it is completed. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Do you believe that it is appropriate—if, in 

fact, the total cost is above $300 million, which qualifies as a Level 

1 acquisition—I think we can all agree this is going to be more 

than $300 million—why would you be conducting a request for information for long-term strategy for the border wall when you have 

not had this kind of lifecycle analysis? 

Ms. DUKE. A request for information will give us industry’s input 

into that lifecycle analysis, what is the state-of-the-art and what 

industry believes might be reasonable, and that would be an input 

to the lifecycle analysis. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Do you think it is appropriate to conduct acquisition and requests for information at the same time? Do you 

think that is appropriate? Or is that not good government? 

Ms. DUKE. I think that—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. That is certainly not what a business would 

do, I can assure you. 

Ms. DUKE. I think that we are taking a segmented approach 

where we do an instant portion of border security and then look in 

the longer term is something that tends to deliver better results. 

Senator MCCASKILL. What about the costs of land acquisition 

and litigation? I was on the border a few weeks ago, and I noticed 

this incredible waste of resources because there are these big gaps 

in the existing wall where there is no gate. And there is a Border 

Patrol agent that sits there in a truck 24/7 at every opening. Very 

expensive in terms of lifecycle costs. But that is because of the litigation that has been going for a decade over land acquisition. 

Now, has anybody factored in any costs, have you see any analysis ever done? Because I do not believe in looking at the numbers 

I have looked at they have ever included land acquisition, the cost 

of eminent domain, the government seizing some of the most valuable farmland in Texas, I have never seen a cost analysis of that. 

Are you aware if any exists? 

Ms. DUKE. I do not know if any exists, but I do agree with you 

that that is an important concern, and we expect that to be a major 

issue if additional wall is constructed. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Another thing that bugs me is the government never does pen and pencil on legal costs because they are just 

government lawyers. I would ask you to commit to make an analysis of what the legal costs have been surrounding these half a 

dozen gates I have seen. Forget about the Border Patrol agent that 

sits there around the clock, but what about the legal cost and the 

delays and all the costs associated with that? I would like to see 

an analysis of what that time is costing our government in terms 
11 

of the legal analysis, because certainly a business would also do 

that analysis. 

Ms. DUKE. I can commit, Senator, to using that going forward. 

I do not know if the data exists to go retroactively, but I believe 

that is a valid cost in the cost estimate going forward. 

Senator MCCASKILL. I am going to be interested to see if in the 

original 600-and-some miles we built, if there was ever any pen 

and pencil about land acquisition costs and litigation. If there was 

not, then certainly that is a flaw that we would expect to be corrected. 

I have many more questions. I think you have a very daunting 

job in front of you, and I look forward to a very cooperative relationship in terms of being able to get information and being able 

to perform the oversight by this Committee that I have been honored be a part of, regardless of which party holds the Presidency. 

Thank you. 

Ms. DUKE. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Portman. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Again, welcome to the Committee. I said I was going to ask you 

some tough questions. Let me just start by saying I do think you 

are the right person at the right time for a very difficult assignment, and I notice that the Secretary has been talking about unity 

of effort, and my sense is that from your background that is exactly 

how you will tackle this responsibility. 

Let me ask you about a couple specific things, if I could, that 

have come up recently. One is the role of the Department in these 

increasing incidents of threats and attacks on Jewish community 

centers, on Jewish day schools, on cemeteries. And, by the way, 

this is not just with regard to the Jewish community. Yesterday 

there was a bomb threat with regard to the Islamic community. 

Right outside of my home town of Cincinnati, the mosque actually 

received a bomb threat, which has happened over time, including 

after 9/11. And my sense is that there is more the Department of 

Homeland Security can do. 

Over the last week or so, Senator Peters, who is here on our 

panel—he was here a moment ago and I am sure he will come 

back—we drafted a letter, and it was a letter to you, to your 

boss—it was also to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and 

also to the Justice Department (DOJ)—making sure that you are 

aware of what is going on around the country and asking for your 

additional help. By the end of that process of asking colleagues if 

they wanted to join us, every single Member of this Committee 

signed that letter. In fact, every single Member of the Senate 

signed that letter. That never happens. A hundred Senators signed 

the letter. And what it said is, we need help, and we need you to 

understand the importance of this. 

I met with the Jewish community in Cincinnati, Columbus, and 

Cleveland last week in Columbus, and they gave me a lot of specific ideas that they are looking for. I know Secretary Kelly vowed 

to support the communities last week. He talked about the Department’s Protective Security Advisers (PSA) program. This is welcome, but I think there is more to do. One is these nonprofit security grants and that program, so I would like you to address that 
12 

at the end of my question to see whether that is being properly 

resourced and what you know about that program from your previous service. 

I think there is a real need for better information sharing from 

what I hear from the communities back home, specifically with regard to the fusion centers and getting that information down to the 

local communities so local law enforcement knows what the threat 

information is, what the trends are. Opening up that flow back to 

the local community I think is really important, and it does not always happen. 

Better training is another thing. There is this group called the 

‘‘National Protection and Programs Directorate (NPPD)’’ that I 

know deals with a lot of this. 

So what I am asking you today is to make a commitment to us 

that you will take a fresh look at this area, given this increasing 

evidence that there is more of a threat out there and actual attacks. If you look at the desecration of the cemeteries, including 

one in the home State of our Ranking Member I know she has spoken out on, and my sense is, again, that all of my colleagues are 

hearing from their constituents back home about this. 

So if you could give me that commitment today that you will take 

a fresh look at this, along with General Kelly, and get back to us 

on what you think the Department can do more effectively. 

Ms. DUKE. I give you my commitment. Crimes based on religion 

are against our Constitution and cannot be tolerated. 

My knowledge of the specific grant program is limited. I will get 

back to you on that. I know the benefit of working with the Governors and the State and local and getting information from them 

for boots on the ground and, again, through the fusion centers, getting operational intelligence back out to them. And I think info 

sharing, going back to the data issue, and getting things timely 

and complete is very important, and I expect additional work on 

the fusion centers and enhancing their performance to be part of 

our leadership. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you. The second question I have is 

about this heroin epidemic, and the Chair and Ranking Member 

have been very involved in this and mentioned it today. But we 

have a situation now where more and more families are facing this 

challenge of addiction. We have a new drug called ‘‘fentanyl,’’ which 

is a synthetic heroin, as you know, coming in from overseas. 

Fentanyl, carfentanyl, U4, it comes by various names. 

To give you an example of what is happening in my home State, 

between 2014 and 2015, we believe there was a doubling of 

overdoses and deaths related to fentanyl. If you look at February 

of this year, just last month, the shortest month of the year, we 

had the most deaths in your home town of Cleveland, Ohio, that 

we have had from overdoses. Most of those overdoses were because 

of fentanyl, often being mixed with heroin. I am told by law enforcement back home that the fentanyl is now being sprinkled on 

marijuana. This is incredibly deadly stuff, 30 to 50 times more 

powerful than heroin, and it is killing people. And unlike heroin, 

which does come over the Southern Border, as was talked 

about—and one reason we need a secure border to be able to stop 

more of that and increase the price for that that does get through, 
13 

because that would help. But this fentanyl comes by the U.S. mail 

system, and there was a recent study done by the U.S.-China Commission saying that it is being produced primarily in China, sometimes in India, sometimes other countries, sent to the United 

States by the U.S. mail. And the reason the traffickers use the U.S. 

mail system is because if they send it through another means, particularly, the United Parcel Service (UPS) or Federal Express 

(FedEx), they have to provide electronic data up front where it is 

from, what is in it, where it is going. But the mail system, they 

do not have to provide that, so it is the preferred way of sending 

this poison into our communities. 

I would like your commitment today that you will work with us 

on legislation called the Synthetics Trafficking and Overdose Prevention (STOP) Act that most Members of this Committee have 

been involved with, some have been cosponsors of. It is bipartisan 

legislation. Amy Klobuchar from Minnesota and I introduced it 

again recently, and it basically just says with regard to the mail 

system, give law enforcement the tool to require that electronic 

data so that they can target these packages. They cannot look at 

millions, but they can look at hundreds. And the Customs and Border Protection people I have talked to privately say absolutely we 

need this tool. Local law enforcement is desperate to have it. 

So could you give us a commitment today that you will work with 

this Committee to ensure that we can get this legislation moving 

and begin to stop some of this poison from coming into our communities? 

Ms. DUKE. I give you my commitment that we understand that 

the drug problem is—it is bipartisan. I heard from every Member 

of this Committee as I met with them, and I commit to working 

forward to securing against that threat to our people, yes. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you. And, again, this is one that is not 

going to be the silver bullet to stop drug abuse in our country, but 

it will stop some of this poison from coming in, which is the new 

major threat we are seeing, and it will increase the price, which is 

one of the issues that fentanyl unbelievably is now less expensive 

than some of these other drugs that are opioids that are causing 

so much devastation in our communities and the breakup of families and crime and other issues. 

Finally, I have just got a few seconds left, but with regard to 

cybersecurity, I just want to echo what my colleagues have said already about the importance of that and your new role. We have 

tried very hard to give you the tools to be able to get better people 

in-house, more flexibility in hiring. And if you would make a commitment to us today to look into that issue and tell us what you 

need that you are not getting to be able to get the best people at 

DHS and other departments that are working with you all to push 

back on the cybersecurity threat. 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, we have what we need legislatively. We need to 

move forward, if confirmed, with the accepted workforce, and that 

will go a long way to help with the cyber issue. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Hassan. 
14 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN 

Senator HASSAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning, 

Ms. Duke. Thank you for meeting with me in my office. Thank you 

for your long career in public service, and I will give a special 

shout-out. Anybody who has studied in New Hampshire is good in 

my book. [Laughter.] 

So thank you very much for being here. 

I want to just start by echoing what Senator Portman was just 

alluding to. I am a cosponsor on the STOP Act. My State, as his, 

has been just devastated by this epidemic, and in particular now, 

the use and importation of fentanyl. And what we are learning 

among other things is how creative the drug cartels are. This is 

moneymaking business for them. They do not care about people’s 

lives. And we are going to need to work together at all levels of 

government to stop it, both addressing the supply as well as the 

demand side. 

So I am grateful for the discussion we had about it. I am grateful 

for all of the Members of this Committee who are committed to 

helping stop this epidemic. And I was very glad to hear you just 

now talk about the importance of information sharing. As a former 

Governor, I know the importance of sharing Federal, State, and 

local, especially around this issue. So thank you for your commitment and understanding of that. 

We spoke briefly in my office about your commitment—and you 

mentioned in your testimony and your policy questionnaire—to a 

threat-based approach to decisionmaking, and I am wondering if 

you could just briefly talk a little bit more about what that means 

to you and what you think the Department needs to do. 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, Senator. What that means to me is that we have 

a limited number of resources in the United States, and when we 

are making decisions with homeland security resources, we must 

spend every incremental dollar on the solution that is going to buy 

down the most risk. And these are important decisions both in the 

budget cycle, in moving personnel resources, and going forward, 

and that requires good data. It changes over time, and we just need 

to be on top of that. 

Senator HASSAN. OK. Well, thank you. 

So I want to then, following up on that, talk a little bit about one 

of the things that the Ranking Member also mentioned concerning 

TSA cuts. Last September, the Director of the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), Nick Rasmussen, testified before this Committee that—and these are his words—‘‘terrorists remain focused 

on aviation targets because they recognize the economic damage 

that may result from even unsuccessful attempts to down aircraft 

or against airline terminals, as well as the high loss of life and the 

attention media devotes to these attacks.’’ 

So the report that we saw yesterday in Politico indicated that the 

Office of Management and Budget (OMB) is considering making a 

number of cuts to the Department of Homeland Security in order 

to pay for the President’s border wall and to hire more border and 

immigration officers. Among the cuts was an 11-percent reduction 

in TSA’s budget, or a little under $1 billion. That is truly a devastating cut, and it means less security against aviation threats 

from al-Qaeda and Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS). 
15 

So do you support cutting aviation security to pay for the President’s border wall? 

Ms. DUKE. I commit to you that I will look at the budget. At 

DHS, every mission is important and really underresourced at this 

critical time, Secret Service, the Coast Guard with its human trafficking and drug interdiction roles. So I commit that I will look at 

the budget very carefully, if confirmed. 

Senator HASSAN. Well, I thank you for that commitment. I would 

just suggest that if we are truly committed to threat-based management at DHS and if the Director of the National Counterterrorism Center says that terrorists want to attack our aviation system, that the suggestion that we would cut $1 billion from aviation 

security is very concerning. And so I hope you will take a close look 

at it and that you will be able to come back to this Committee and 

commit to fighting cuts to TSA. 

Ms. DUKE. I will, and I will also use that intelligence from that 

organization and others. 

Senator HASSAN. Thank you. 

The other thing I wanted to do was follow up a little bit on my 

colleagues’ questions and concerns around the opioid epidemic. We 

have talked about how devastating it is. We know that the flow of 

narcotics across the Southern Border absolutely contributes to the 

epidemic. But it is not the only route, to Senator Portman’s point, 

through which drugs get into our country. 

The security of our Northern Border lacks the resources and attention paid to our Southern Border, while fentanyl, a key precursor drug, is being shipped into the country from China in particular, and it is poisoning our young people and killing them. Additionally, our maritime borders stretch thousands of miles and 

have been a popular way for drug smugglers for years. And as 

mentioned by the Ranking Member, the Coast Guard plays a key 

role in interdicting maritime drug shipments. 

So, again, going back to the Politico article yesterday which reported that OMB was considering cutting Coast Guard’s budget by 

14 percent, or about $1.5 billion—and I would suggest that 

the U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) is already feeling pretty 

underresourced—again, this is a cut being suggested by OMB in 

order to pay for the President’s wall. 

I am having a hard time understanding the logic of a move like 

this. If we build a wall along the Southern Border and gut the 

Coast Guard in the process, what we have seen from these drug 

cartels is that they are creative, and I just think that incentivizes 

the cartels to smuggle more drugs across our maritime boundaries. 

So I am really looking for you to be able to outline steps to ensure that DHS employs a comprehensive approach to battling narcotics trafficking, stopping the opioid epidemic, and do not just 

focus—the Southern Border security is incredibly important, but, 

we have to be smart about this, and we have to use what you 

called this threat-based assessment process. And I am really concerned that, from what I am reading, the Administration is not following that path. So I am just hoping I can get a commitment from 

you to really help do this in a strategic way. 

Ms. DUKE. I will. I know you recognize also that this is very 

much an interagency function, but DHS does play a part of this. 
16 

1Transcript submitted by Senator Harris appears in the Appendix on page 120. 

2Letter submitted by Senator Harris appears in the Appendix on page 200. 

3The memorandum referenced by Senator Harris appears in the Appendix on page 119. 

I committed to Senator Heitkamp to visit the Northern Border to 

learn more about its geography and the threat there. And you are 

right, the Coast Guard does play an important mission in drug 

interdiction also, in addition to the land. So you have my commitment. 

Senator HASSAN. Well, and I thank you. And the last thing I 

would say as I am running out of time is just the other thing that 

we should all be thinking about, law enforcement has spoken very 

compellingly about the fact that we cannot arrest our way out of 

this opioid epidemic, that it is going to take a combination of prevention, treatment, as well as law enforcement. So I look forward 

to having further conversations with you about how DHS can partner in that effort, too. 

Ms. DUKE. Thank you. 

Senator HASSAN. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Harris. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HARRIS 

Senator HARRIS. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, on the topic of immigration, I request unanimous consent that two items be entered 

into the record. One is a transcript from a hearing that I held in 

Los Angeles, a forum on the topic of immigration.1 The second is 

a letter from the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los 

Angeles, discussing how the President’s Executive action has instilled fear in immigrant communities.2

Chairman JOHNSON. Without objection. 

Senator HARRIS. Thank you. 

Ms. Duke, thank you for your many years of service, and thank 

you to your family for allowing you to reenter. I have several questions of you. 

You have in your questionnaire and in your interviews resonated 

several points that you have made in terms of principles that you 

hold to be important, including that government has good relations 

with the people that we serve and that there is trust between government and the people that we serve. And your comments suggest 

to me that you also prioritize transparency and consistency in the 

way that we do our work as government officials. So I thank you 

for that. 

On that point, I will tell you based on the discussions that I have 

had, the forums I have held, many of my constituents need clarity 

on the decisions that have been made through the Executive Order 

and the memos that have been issued by the Department of Homeland Security, and so I have for you right now a poster that my 

staff has created of General Kelly’s confirmation hearing. Can you 

see it from there? It is a bit small. But basically he talked about 

his highest priorities and mentioned that he would create priorities 

in terms of who would be deported and who would be the focus of 

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and CBP. 

Then the memorandum from February 20th3 lists seven categories, and in those categories we see that we have: one, people 

who have been convicted of crimes; then it goes on to say people 
17 

who have been charged but not been convicted or found to be 

guilty. It goes on to mention people who have committed acts which 

constitute a chargeable offense, and then other factors, including, 

7, those that in the judgment of an immigration officer otherwise 

pose a risk to public safety or national security. You have said 

many times, including at least three times in this hearing, that you 

have limited resources—we all do—and so we have to make priorities and triage in many situations. 

So will you tell me, please, of these seven categories, which you 

consider to be the most important with your limited resources? 

Ms. DUKE. The most important is the people that have been 

criminal. It is subcategory 1. 

Senator HARRIS. OK. And where do you put in this hierarchy the 

third one, those who have committed acts which constitute, but obviously there has been no legal action, where would you put that 

in your list of priorities? 

Ms. DUKE. I believe these are, if you will, loosely in descending 

order. I think the main effect of that memorandum is to not exempt 

any categories that currently are under the current law passed by 

Congress. 

Senator HARRIS. So it is your opinion that these are listed in descending order of priority? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes. 

Senator HARRIS. OK. And will you issue a memo then to your Department, if confirmed, that that is exactly the case, that this is in 

descending order of priority? 

Ms. DUKE. I think that—— 

Senator HARRIS. Because there is no clarity right now in terms 

of—— 

Ms. DUKE. I can commit that—— 

Senator HARRIS [continuing]. What the folks on the ground are 

supposed to do as their priority for who they will pick up, who they 

will detain. 

Ms. DUKE. I will commit that if there is continued lack of clarity 

that we will have more clarity. I know that ICE was issuing a 

memo that is not issued yet, and I can work with you on making 

sure that has the clarity so that you can explain it to your constituents in a way and show them that that is the way it understands. 

But there is still the prioritization. 

Senator HARRIS. OK. And I will emphasize that it is most important to my constituents that the officials in the Department actually explain it to the troops on the ground. 

How would you then direct an officer in the field to assess number 3, which is someone, again, who may have committed an act 

which constitutes a chargeable offense? How would you train and 

direct an officer on the ground about number 7, which is in the 

judgment of that officer, an individual poses a risk to public safety 

or national security? How would you train on that point? 

Ms. DUKE. Both number 3—number 3 also requires judgment, 

and all our law enforcement officials in this country, whether they 

are Federal or State or local, have to have judgment. They have the 

Federal law enforcement training where they learn that. They both 

practice law enforcement. And in the Federal—— 
18 

1The information submitted by Ms. Duke appears in the Appendix on page 116. 

Senator HARRIS. But they need to be trained on specific factors 

that they—— 

Ms. DUKE. Yes. 

Senator HARRIS [continuing]. Should consider, and that is the 

way that we actually evaluate whether they are exercising good 

judgment or not. Would you agree? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes. 

Senator HARRIS. Do you know if that training has been planned 

for those officers so that we can ensure that they are, in fact, exercising good judgment? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, that is part of their law enforcement training. 

Senator HARRIS. Has that been issued since February 20th as it 

relates to these seven factors? 

Ms. DUKE. I do not know at this time. I can get back to you on 

whether there has been incorporation into the training specifically. 

Senator HARRIS. Please do. 

Then on February 17th, there was a memo from Acting CBP 

Commissioner Kevin McAleenan which indicates that to meet the 

hiring goals of the Executive Order, there would be 15,000 new officers, that we would have to lower CBP hiring standards. And as 

you probably know, during a hiring surge at the Department between 2006 and 2012, there were a lot of unintended consequences 

which required then that Congress in 2010 mandate that the CBP 

use polygraph testing to blunt the infiltration of the agency by drug 

cartels. However, it is my understanding that now as part of the 

need to hire 15,000 new officers, there is a suggestion that the 

polygraph testing would no longer occur. Do you agree with that? 

Ms. DUKE. We will not lower standards to do that. 

Senator HARRIS. What about the polygraph testing? 

Ms. DUKE. I am not familiar with it. I know there was discussion 

over whether it is necessary or not. 

Senator HARRIS. Do you believe the polygraph testing should remain intact in order to ensure that we keep the hiring standards 

so that we can ensure that those officers exercise good judgment? 

Ms. DUKE. I do not have enough data, to be honest, Senator, to 

comment on that, but I will look into it, if confirmed, immediately. 

Senator HARRIS. So in your many years of service with the Department, you do not have information about whether—the efficacy 

of a polygraph test and the hiring of these officers? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, I know that the polygraph has efficacy, but is 

there a degradation in workforce if it is eliminated, I do not have 

that data.1

Senator HARRIS. OK. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Heitkamp. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And it is great to 

see you again, and thank you for a lovely visit in my office. 

Since we had an opportunity to talk, there has been a number 

of things that have occurred within the Department of Homeland 

Security, but one thing that really caught my attention is the dis-
19 

cussion of a policy that would, in fact, separate mothers from their 

children at the border. 

How much time have you spent in the triangle countries in Central America? 

Ms. DUKE. Very little other than vacations. No official duty. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Would you agree that the conditions on the 

ground in those countries are dire and dangerous for families? 

Ms. DUKE. I have heard that, yes, from people I have met from 

those countries. 

Senator HEITKAMP. In fact, we know that the murder rates per 

capita are the highest in these countries, especially El Salvador. 

Many of the people who are migrating, many of the people who are 

on the move are, in fact, escaping very desperate conditions, and 

it is not just economic migration. It is migration to get away from 

the terror. 

Obviously, there has been a United Nations (U.N.) project to take 

a look at refugeeing in place, whether it is in Costa Rica, Belize, 

southern Mexico, Nicaragua. There has been a lot of discussion 

about how we deal with the crisis in Central America, which obviously is having an effect. But how do we deal with the visual of 

a Border Patrol agent taking a baby away from a mother at the 

border? 

Ms. DUKE. That is a bad visual. I think what we do is we go to 

two underlying areas. One is we have to separate adults from children potentially because of threats we have heard against children. 

And, also, we have to address the fact of how dangerous it is to illegally immigrate into the country. And I think that the reference 

you are making to separating mothers and children or adults and 

children was one thing that Secretary Kelly said is a possibility to 

help address this threat against children who are illegally migrating. 

Senator HEITKAMP. So the strategy is not to figure out how 

through the State Department we can effectuate support for refugees in place, which would be my preference, that people stay in 

the community as we work with these countries to stabilize their 

economies and stabilize their security. So it is not our problem, and 

the solution is to take babies away from mothers. That is the best 

solution we have in the United States of America when dealing 

with this crisis? 

Ms. DUKE. No. No, it is not. Absolutely, Secretary Kelly and I 

have had short discussions, but are committed to looking at both 

what we call the push effect and the pull effect. And the push effect 

would be the areas you are talking about, Senator, of fleeing violence; they are leaving for a reason. And we are committed with 

the other appropriate agencies to looking at both sides. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Well, I can tell you that for every mother 

who would be seeing someone seeking asylum in this country, fleeing from rape, murder, and potential destruction of her family, it 

is not a very humanitarian way to deal with this crisis. I think 

there are other ways, and I think that the threat of taking mothers 

away from children may, in fact, provide a deterrence. I get that. 

But it does not solve the problem in our hemisphere, and if we do 

not deal with the problem in our hemisphere, we will continue to 

have disruption, and that disruption will continue to find a place 
20 

for a criminal element in our country. I want to wage my strong 

opposition to taking babies away from their mothers. 

If we look at budget—and I have spent a lot of time on this on 

the border, probably more time than what I should given that I 

represent a State like North Dakota, but I can tell you from being 

down there, working with some of the most conservative ranchers 

you are going to find, they do not want this wall. You have opposition from people from whom you need support to build this wall. 

They have a lot of really good ideas on how you can secure the border, but yet we are going ahead, in my opinion, because this is a 

political promise, not a vetted or actual idea that would result in 

any increased security. 

How committed do you think the agency is or the agency during 

your tenure to actually pushing back against strategies that will 

not keep us any safer, that are, in fact, irrational deployments of 

Federal dollars, at the same time we are opening up the maritime 

borders, we are opening up the ports of entry (POE) called airports, 

we are not securing the Northern Border, but yet we are building 

a wall at huge cost and a wall that many people who live on the 

border, including the Congressional people, including at least one 

Senator thinks is absolutely the wrong strategy? When are we 

going to actually have a discussion not about whether we let the 

bids, as Senator McCaskill has been talking about, whether we actually ask for people to bid on these projects, when are we going 

to have a discussion on whether this actually is the right deployment of resources? 

Ms. DUKE. Currently, Customs and Border Protection is working 

on a study, a comprehensive study to look at layers of security, not 

just the wall, to look at what other types of technology, infrastructure, and resources would be most appropriate and effective for the 

border. So that is currently working. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes, but you said in addition to the wall. 

What I am saying is that we need to rethink all of border security. 

We need to really have a conversation, lots of great ideas from law 

enforcement, local law enforcement, on how we can do a better job, 

some discussions about actually clearing the brush so that you can 

detect people in a mile boundary. There are some really creative 

ideas that are being discussed on the Southern Border that, if you 

deploy all the resources on a wall, you are not going to get to that 

discussion because you are going to be fighting eminent domain, 

you are going to be fighting the local people on building this wall. 

And it just seems to me that someone needs to say, ‘‘Stop. Let us 

really evaluate this.’’ And if we believe public opinion polling, it is 

not something the American public thinks will make them more secure. 

And so, I just really hope—you are a common-sense person. You 

have been in the agency, I know. You obviously will work for the 

President, and I understand that. But we need to have someone 

and an agency that actually looks at what situational awareness 

means and how we best deploy the resources. I hope you take that 

message back to the Secretary. I am proud to support you, as you 

know, and we had a great talk about the Northern Border. But 

there are a lot of things that are happening right now that will be 

irreversible if we do not have a strategy. 
21 

Ms. DUKE. And I will engage with those Governors and local politicians also in gathering data about the Southern Border. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Heitkamp. 

Ms. Duke, very quickly, my guess is that once that study is complete and you have the results of your findings, you will be happy 

to come and testify before the Committee and lay out your findings, 

correct? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, I will come. 

Chairman JOHNSON. And we will call you to do that. 

Senator Tester. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TESTER 

Senator TESTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for 

being here today, Ms. Duke. I appreciate, as others have said, your 

willingness to serve and your public service before today. 

I want to touch a little bit on what Senator Heitkamp said because on the Northern Border, when I got elected 10 years ago and 

was on this Committee, I took an Assistant Secretary up to the 

Northern Border in the Bush Administration, and we went north 

of a little town called Turner, and there were a number of farmers 

and ranchers up there. And being new to this position, I just asked 

them silly questions like: What is your relationship with the CBP? 

And they said, the one person I talked to said, ‘‘I would not stop 

and help them if they had a flat tire.’’ So the relationship was not 

good, and I think that relationship is critically important for border 

security, whether it is on the north or whether it is on the south. 

I think that relationship has improved greatly. I still think it can 

be improved some more. 

But I think the point that Senator Heitkamp made about if these 

folks are working against us on the Northern Border, it really is 

going to cost us a lot more money to make it secure. So I just hope 

you take that to heart. 

I serve on the Homeland Security Subcommittee on Appropriations under John Boozman as the Chairman. I am the Ranking 

Member on that, and there has been a request, as has been referenced earlier in this discussion, about $20 million that will be reprogrammed in the Department of Homeland Security for the purpose of a wall. And my question to you is: Is that going to be the 

only purpose for the $20 million? 

Ms. DUKE. I am not—— 

Senator TESTER. To do a pilot on a wall. 

Ms. DUKE. I am not familiar with that reprogramming request. 

As an adviser, I have not been involved in those discussions, but 

I will engage, if confirmed. 

Senator TESTER. OK. That is cool. So do you think the $20 million for a study for a wall is the right way to spend that money 

for national security interests on the Southern Border? And the 

reason I say that is because I do not think there is anybody in this 

room, and certainly nobody on this dais, that does not think that 

our security of this country is critically important. We know that 

money is finite, and so we have to get the biggest bang for the 

buck. 

So if this $20 million is reprogrammed, do you think a pilot 

project on a wall should be the only thing it is used for? 
22 

Ms. DUKE. I think that we should test things before we deploy 

them, and we have to test not only are they effective in securing 

the border, but are they sustainable. So for that purpose, a pilot 

program I think we be useful. 

Senator TESTER. Well, let me ask it to you this way: Would you 

be opposed to carving out part of that money to be used for technology as a way to secure the border—not entirely but in places 

where the wall might not be the most effective way to do it because 

of a number of reasons, whether it is landscape or eminent domain 

or whatever it might be? 

Ms. DUKE. I am not sure if there is any pilots necessary on technology now. I would have to look into that. But I do know the plan 

does not just include physical barrier. It includes continued technology and infrastructure. 

Senator TESTER. OK. So what you are telling me is that there are 

certain places on that Southern Border where there will be technology and not a wall? 

Ms. DUKE. I do not know if it is an either/or, but there is, to my 

knowledge, no intent to discontinue use of technology. 

Senator TESTER. OK. 

Ms. DUKE. A multilayered approach to the southwest border. 

Senator TESTER. I think you are a smart lady. I think you are 

very well fit for this job, and I intend to support you. But you do 

not think it would be wise to at least determine what the best avenue is, whether it is a line in the ground like you talked to the 

Adelos folks to determine if there is a tunnel going underneath or 

something walking over the top, or whether it is drones or whether 

it is manpower or whether it is a wall, to get the most bang for 

the money and to really ensure this country’s national security on 

our borders? Doesn’t that make more sense than to just say, well, 

we are just going to focus on the wall, and after we get that done, 

maybe we will spend another $30 billion on something else because 

it did not quite do the job we anticipated? 

Ms. DUKE. My opinion is we should use the results of this pilot 

and the other information that Customs and Border Protection has 

in their program about technology cost and effectiveness, infrastructure cost and effectiveness, personnel, and take all that and 

determine what is the right combination for the complete security 

of the southwest border. 

Senator TESTER. OK. And on this $20 million that is due to be 

reprogrammed—I will go back to the original question I 

had—would you be opposed to carving out part of that to be utilized for technology resources on the ground on the Southern Border specifically? 

Ms. DUKE. I do not have the information to either be for or opposed at this time. 

Senator TESTER. All right. OK. What role do you think that Canada and Mexico play in our border security? 

Ms. DUKE. A strong role, and relations with those countries are 

essential. 

Senator TESTER. I agree with that. So what impacts do you think 

that the fluff up between the President of the United States and 

the President of Mexico had as far as potentially improving or decreasing our border security? Are you concerned about that? 
23 

Ms. DUKE. I know that Secretary Kelly and I would be working 

on strong relations. He has already been to Mexico and Guatemala, 

and the relationship between Homeland Security in the United 

States and our bordering countries would be strong. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Good. So you are going to basically do what 

you think you need to do to establish those relationships, whether 

it be with Mexico or Canada, to make sure that folks are talking 

and hopefully—— 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, and because of—— 

Senator TESTER. Hopefully the fights up above do not impact 

that. 

Ms. DUKE. Because of the Secretary’s role at U.S. Southern Command (SOUTHCOM), he has some preexisting relationships that 

are very strong on the Southern Border. 

Senator TESTER. With Mexico, OK. Operation Stonegarden we 

talked a little bit about in my office, and I just what to make sure 

that I know where you are at on funding for Operation 

Stonegarden. Where are you at? 

Ms. DUKE. I am supportive of the program. 

Senator TESTER. OK. And it goes back to the original question 

that Senator Heitkamp has. Those are the kinds of partnerships 

that I think we can utilize on the Northern and the Southern border to be able to get the most bang for the buck. I intend to vote 

for your confirmation. I appreciate you being here today, and I appreciate you putting yourself up for this position. 

Ms. DUKE. Thank you, Senator Tester. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Tester. 

By the way, a real-world example of the effectiveness of fencing, 

read our report, the result of my trip to Israel right before Christmas, 143 miles of fence put up in 2 years, cost of about $2.9 million 

per mile, cut the illegal immigration rate from 16,000 crossing 

their Southern Border to 18. And, by the way, Prime Minister 

Netanyahu said actually, three problems with fencing is tunnels, 

tunnels, tunnels. But still—it is not perfect, but it is pretty darn 

effective. Senator Lankford. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you for being here. I appreciated our conversation in my 

office to be able to talk through a lot of these issues before. You 

have done a lot of work in acquisition and contracting. This has 

been an area that the Inspector General (IG) has noted for a while 

as a struggle for DHS, so I want to just be able to talk out loud 

on a couple of things with you to be able to ask you questions 

about. 

DHS’s major acquisition programs tend to cost more than expected, take longer to deploy than planned, or deliver less capability than promised. That came out of the IG’s report of late. So 

one of the questions I would have for you is: How do we fix that? 

Because we are talking about multiple major acquisition programs 

here. How do we make sure that at the end of the day the taxpayers got what they paid for? 

Ms. DUKE. I think the single most initiative that has begun and 

needs to be strengthened is really developing good requirements 
24 

based on operational needs before we get started. In the earlier 

days of Homeland Security, we tended to move quickly, maybe before we were ready, and that caused some changes—too many 

changes and stops and goes in the programs. So with the unity of 

effort, if confirmed, I would be focusing on having those operationally driven requirements before we go out and start acquiring 

something. 

Then, second, consistent oversight within the Department 

through the Chief Acquisition Officer, and also, if confirmed, I 

would continue to look more toward modular approaches to acquisition rather than trying to buy these big, huge fixes that are too 

complex to deploy effectively. 

Senator LANKFORD. So what does that mean for off-the-shelf 

technology, for instance? Because there has been an emphasis at 

times to say we are different, we have to have our own specialized 

piece of technology developed just for us, rather than an off-theshelf piece that also has already been tested, has already been 

proven. 

Ms. DUKE. I think that there needs to be a mix, and if confirmed, 

I would encourage—or I would mandate, I guess, that one of the 

roles of the Directorate of Science and Technolgy (S&T) be to look 

at those items that can either be used commercially or with minor 

modifications be used in a homeland security application, so looking toward industry to have already developed rather than major 

research and development (R&D) programs. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. Thank you. As we talked about before 

as well, DHS has spent 13 years trying to be able to pull together 

their HR system. That is a long time to try to pull together an HR 

system. Now, what typically happens is every 2 years there is an 

emphasis on it. There is a new plan of how we are going to attack 

it. Then leadership changes, and it never gets done. And then there 

is another 2-year plan to do it. There is a renaming of the previous 

plan. There is a new attack for it, a new plan. And for 13 years, 

the HR system continues to flounder. 

How do we move from that is an ongoing issue to that is a settled issue? 

Ms. DUKE. I think the focus has been on the system, and I think 

that is an inappropriate focus. The approach has to be at a 

jointness that we are one Department and we are going to have the 

appropriate jointness in hiring and staffing, and then the system 

flows through that. And I do not think we have had to this date 

that agreement, and that is what I will drive through the Deputies 

of the components, and then I believe the system will flow from 

that. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. Let me ask you an easy question. How 

do we solve the morale issue? This has been an issue for a while 

at DHS. These are some great folks that are patriots that want to 

be able to serve the Nation. And for whatever reason, there has 

been ongoing morale issues among DHS employees. How does that 

get solved? 

Ms. DUKE. I think we solve that by giving them the authority 

and the tools and the judgment to do their job. We reinforce how 

much we value their ability to do the job. The Secretary and I lead 

by managing that what needs to be managed so it enables them to 
25 

be free to do their jobs, and actually communicating better, not just 

about their little piece but having them understand the system. 

And I think those are always important. It is very difficult to work 

at DHS, and we need to recognize that. 

Senator LANKFORD. So I would say two things. One, people have 

a greater sense of joy in doing their job when they know their job 

is significant. Tom Carper, who serves on this Committee as well, 

has his ongoing statement that he comes back to over and over 

again. People love to do what is significant. They do a very significant national security task. And I think when they are allowed to 

do the job that they wanted to do, the reason they applied and 

came, I think that reaffirms them again to know, ‘‘I am doing 

something that is valuable, and I am getting to do what I came to 

do.’’ 

The second part of that is to be able to help hold the ideas that 

they have on the field of what needs to be fixed to actually get to 

this Committee, and so we can fix them. There has at times been 

a tension between their ideas in the field and they see the obvious 

things that need to be done. But there is a barrier between this 

Committee and individuals in the field, and the ideas are not coming all the way to us. 

You can help us help them and the morale to be able to know 

that this Committee wants to hear the ideas from the field of how 

things can be fixed. They see the conflicts in the law and in regulatory issues, and they know, ‘‘I wish I could do this, but I cannot 

do this, and I am stuck.’’ If we hear that, that will help us to be 

able to help them and be able to stand by them as well. 

Let me talk briefly on some immigration issues as well. I know 

this is something that the Secretary has been very passionate 

about, in the case our Southern or Northern or Maritime Borders, 

but in the case of our Southern Border: the Southern Border of our 

Southern Border, that is, the relationship between Guatemala and 

Mexico. When we deal with a tremendous amount of illegal immigration coming into the country, it is from areas that come from 

that Mexico-Guatemala border. What can be done to be able to help 

us work with the Mexican authorities as they enforce their Southern Border? 

Ms. DUKE. I think the relationships—I mean, what we have here 

is we have a joint purpose; we have a common ground. And I think 

that what we have to do is work with the enforcement on the demand side in the United States, and, again, that is not—the demand management is not as much a DHS role. We are part of the 

solution, but we have to work as a country on that side. And then 

I think on the international side, our role in helping them with 

some of those push factors related to the crime and the economy 

and keep a good partnership and helping them when they are trying to help themselves as world leaders. 

Senator LANKFORD. Well, there are things that I know that have 

been proposed in the past, the Northern Alliance and the Alliance 

for Prosperity that the United States is partnering with Central 

America on, specifically those three countries—Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador. If there are ideas specifically in the implementation of that or things that need to be done differently, that 

is something—I serve on the State and Foreign Ops Appropriations 
26 

subcommittee—that we are very interested in getting input from 

DHS on as well. That does not need to just be a State Department 

focus. You also have a portion of that. 

One last question that I want to bounce of you, and that is this 

issue of operational control. The National Defense Authorization 

Act (NDAA) required DHS to come up with some sort of metrics 

and definition for what does operational control mean of our borders. Do you know what the status of that is or any recommendations for that? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, DHS is working to come up with the metrics behind operational control. That is very important, as the Chairman 

mentioned, not only for the wall where it has proven effective in 

other countries, but we have to know the effectiveness of the individual pieces of border security like the fencing and the wall, like 

the technology, but also across the border in general, we have to 

have those performance results. And that is working, and we are 

committed to that. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. So you expect that operational control 

definition to come to us fairly quickly? I know you are not there 

at this point in that seat, but is that something that you think is 

a pretty quick priority? 

Ms. DUKE. Absolutely, and the definition is in the Executive 

Order. This is the metrics to measure the definition. 

Senator LANKFORD. Right, and, yes, the metrics will be the key 

aspect. 

Ms. DUKE. Yes. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. There has been a request for a second round 

of questioning, which I will honor, so we will go to another round 

of 7 minutes. Beyond that, it will be written questions for the 

record. Senator McCaskill. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Yes, I want to start with the Secret Service 

budget. Let me preface this remark. I do not want anyone to misinterpret my question here. I think the President and his family 

deserve around-the-clock protection. That is not the argument. The 

argument is clearly there is going to be a lot more money needed 

because the Secret Service now has to protect Trump Tower. It has 

to protect Mar-a-Lago since the President goes there almost every 

weekend. It is going to have to protect his sons who travel constantly on international business. And I want a commitment from 

you that the budget will not only reflect an appropriate increase request for the Secret Service—because as you know, one of the 

issues we have had in the Secret Service which we finally turned 

the corner on is hiring and having enough people so that there is 

not this stress associated with a work pace that is totally unrealistic. 

So I want a commitment that the budget will reflect the needs 

of the Secret Service in light of the additional protection that is 

going to be required with this President and, most importantly, 

where that money is coming from, what part of Homeland Security 

is going to take a hit for the additional protection that the President and family demands because of this greatly expanded playing 

field of protection that is necessary for President Trump. 
27 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, Secretary Kelly has already directed the operating components that when they come in for their budget requests, they are, for the initial discussions, to come in with their 

true costs. 

Senator MCCASKILL. And I think that is really important that 

that is transparent. I do not want to get into the details of what 

the Secret Service is spending money on, but top lines certainly 

have to be transparent to the public. Agreed? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes. 

Senator MCCASKILL. All right. I want to also talk about the technology. I got to tell you that what is going on on the Border Patrol, 

I did not have one border agent say the first thing they needed was 

a wall. They said I think 76 miles of a wall would be helpful. But 

they said it was more technology and particularly, in the processing centers, they do not have enough bandwidth in terms of 

their Internet signal to even use the technology they have. They 

cannot activate the kiosks with the radio frequency, and since we 

know more people are overstaying visas than they are coming 

across the border illegally, it seems to me that technology to support this radio frequency embedded in the visa card is pretty damn 

important. They cannot even use it because they do not even have 

bandwidth at the processing center. I mean, we are getting ready 

to go on a multi-billion-dollar project that we have not even done 

a cost-benefit analysis, and the processing centers do not have 

enough bandwidth. It is bizarre to me. 

The other thing that was bizarre to me was the technology they 

were using. They were using night cameras, and these border 

agents are so ingenious, they took a night camera, a military night 

camera, and attached it to a pole that goes up in the air, attached 

to a laptop, so they can surveil the geography where you need aerial—not wall but aerial—and they did this themselves. They did 

not do some big request for proposal (RFP) and spend billions of 

dollars acquiring this. 

And then lateral roads. Lateral roads kept being named to me by 

border agent after border agent. They see somebody, and they cannot get to them. So if we cannot get lateral roads over these lands, 

I am trying to figure out how we are going to do a wall. 

So I hope that all of those questions are something that you digest and get back to this Committee about those challenges and 

whether those items are going to be a priority in the budget. 

Ms. DUKE. The operational requirements of the Border Patrol absolutely drive the requirements of future acquisitions. And the 

ports of entry, the legal ports of entry, cannot be forgotten as we 

secure the borders. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Will there be no requests for appropriation 

for billions of dollars until all these studies have been completed, 

until the pilot has been completed and until the cost-benefit analysis has been done? 

Ms. DUKE. I honestly look forward to having those discussions 

with you, if confirmed, but I have not been involved in the budget 

requests to date. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, I know the Chairman, and he talks 

about business all the time and how business does it. And I know 

that there is no way a business would embark on a multi-billion- 
28 

dollar project without a cost-benefit in place. And so I will be very 

disappointed if there is a request for a giant appropriation for 

something that the Border Patrol never mentioned to me as a top 

priority, partially walls—I do not want to misrepresent what they 

said to me—but these other components which do not seem to be 

a high priority in terms of the President’s political speeches. 

The Mexican relationship I think we all agree is very important 

to our border security. I know the President has asked for everyone 

to identify every dime that goes from this country to Mexico. He 

made a very clear promise in his campaign that Mexico would pay 

for this wall. His supporters chanted, ‘‘Mexico will pay for the 

wall.’’ Do you believe the President is intending to cutoff any kind 

of financial support for our mutual drug interdiction efforts to Mexico as a way to try to keep his promise that Mexico is paying for 

the wall? 

Ms. DUKE. I have not had any discussions with the President, so 

I honestly do not know his intent. 

Senator MCCASKILL. OK. Well, if that occurred, would you not 

agree that that would have a dire impact on Mexico’s cooperation 

with our country in terms of their Southern Border? 

Ms. DUKE. I look forward to being engaged in that and, supporting the President with information that we have from Homeland Security that would affect that decision. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Do you believe that cutting off all financial 

assistance to Mexico in order to keep a political promise is a way 

to build morale at the Department of Homeland Security? 

Ms. DUKE. I am not comfortable discussing—I have not been involved in that subject, and I understand your concerns, and I would 

work with the Committee. And as Secretary Kelly said, he and I 

will advise the Administration with facts, and we will continue to 

do that. And I feel confident the President will make the right decisions on that issue. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, politicization, the political nature of 

issues being embedded within the Department of Homeland Security, you have acknowledged in front of this Committee is a problem. You said in a hearing in 2015, when we were looking at this 

morale issue, you believe part of the morale problem is that employees were feeling ‘‘disenfranchised.’’ You attributed this in part 

to the increasing politicization of DHS’ work, stating, ‘‘DHS employees do have pride in their work, but my experience is that it 

is more politicized.’’ You went on to explain that employees find it 

hard to feel like they are part of the mission because a lot of the 

mission and the decisions are made politically. 

Do you understand the point I am making, that the wall might 

fall firmly under that category, if we have no cost-benefit analysis, 

if we are cutting off aid to Mexico, if we are, in fact, not giving the 

Border Patrol what they are asking for but, rather, what the President promised in a political context? 

Ms. DUKE. Yes, and my initial work in this Administration and 

how I became reinvolved was connecting the career employees of 

DHS with the new Administration, to make sure that that alienation did not happen. And I feel confident we will move forward 

and that we will use the career and their great knowledge and experience to make the right decisions. 
29 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, I wish you the very best of luck in 

that. I think you are well equipped to do it. I will look forward to 

your candid answers about that and the protection of whistleblowers in the Department of Homeland Security in the future. 

Ms. DUKE. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. If I do not say it publicly from the dais, I 

almost say it 100 percent of the time talking to witnesses before 

a hearing that the purpose of the hearings in this Committee is to 

lay out a reality, unvarnished truth, because that is the only way 

you solve a problem, which is why next week we are going to have 

a hearing—hearing from the people in the front lines at points of 

entry, points between the ports of entry, and in the interior from 

ICE. So we are going to have front-line enforcement officers, and 

we are going to lay out that reality. So I am looking forward to 

that, and I am sure you will as well. 

Ms. DUKE. And you have my commitment, Mr. Chairman, that 

we will be hearing from those people also in developing requirements. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Again, that is what I am certainly seeing 

from Secretary Kelly. He is getting down there talking to the boots 

on the ground, and that is how you have to manage. Senator Harris. 

Senator HARRIS. Thank you. 

Ms. Duke, I would like to return to the decision apparently that 

the Department has made about separating children from their 

parents. Do you know when this is supposed to take effect? 

Ms. DUKE. It is not a decision. The Secretary, I talked to him 

personally about it. He considers it still a possibility. They are 

looking at a wide range of deterrence, and it was raised as a possible method of deterrence. But there was no decision made, and 

there is no implementation plan currently. 

Senator HARRIS. So let us think of this as an opportunity for the 

public to weigh in before they make a decision. I would urge you 

to urge the Secretary to think about this from the context of, to the 

Chairman’s point, the details of what this would look like on the 

ground. For example, if a family appears at the border and of those 

children with that family are nursing babies, what will the policy 

be as it relates to that nursing baby and that mom? If a family arrives at the border and among those children are toddlers who are 

potty training, what will the policy of the Department be as it relates to the separation of those children from those parents? What 

will the policy of the Department be if they arrive at the border 

and a child is sick and needs comfort to be able to sleep through 

the night from his mother? What will the Department’s policy be? 

Because those are very real scenarios that all of us who have parented a child know, to be very real, and can be very traumatic if 

not taken into account in terms of the effect on those children and 

those families, when we are leaving it up to whoever is from CBP 

or ICE there to make the decision in their best judgment if they 

have not been given clear guidance and training on that issue. 

So I would urge you to pass this on to the Secretary, and also 

in your capacity as number two of that Department, if confirmed, 

to require that everybody be very clear about what this will mean 
30 

and be very clear about the details in terms of the training and the 

protocols and the policy. 

And as you know, the American Academy of Pediatrics has 

issued a statement in opposition to the practice of separating children from their parents, particularly in these kinds of cases, because of the longstanding, potentially lifelong trauma that results 

to those individuals, and it could be the parents as well as the children. 

Back to the issue of the hiring standards, I believe this to be an 

issue that is connected with all that we need to do in terms of 

trust, as we discussed before, trust of government. I also believe it 

to be directly related to the morale of the good men and women of 

the Department, because, you see, bringing in 15,000 new officers 

without appropriate vetting will be a morale issue for the entire 

Department, and in particular for those who came in when the 

standards were high and were trained and brought into the field 

understanding their mission and respecting the power they have. 

So I would urge you to be very clear in your role of leadership, 

if confirmed, that we cannot compromise for the sake of building 

up the forces as has been directed through the Executive Order, because there will be—I guarantee it as someone who has worked in 

law enforcement my entire career—many unintended consequences, 

which will also include a public perception that the Department is 

not run well and cannot be trusted. And that will indeed be something that is, I think, an unintended consequence but very dire in 

terms of the goal of the Department and the important goals of the 

Department in terms of securing our country and national security. 

And it will also be an officer safety issue. 

So on this point, back to the issue of polygraph testing, what will 

be your position going into the Department if this is on the table 

as something that the Department is considering eliminating in 

order to process people quickly to reach that goal of 15,000 new officers? 

Ms. DUKE. Senator, I commit to you—I think we have a meeting 

in about a week. I will go back and I will look at that specific issue. 

I have not been involved nor looked at the rationale behind the 

possibility of eliminating the polygraph, and I will be prepared either in a question for the record or in our meeting to answer that 

specifically. 

Senator HARRIS. OK. I appreciate that. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Harris, if you would just stick 

around for a couple minutes, I would like to tell you a story that 

might give you a little comfort. 

Shortly after the issuance of the first Executive Order on, we will 

call it, the travel ban, I got a text from my daughter who was born 

with a congenital heart defect. She is 33 years old now. She had 

corrective surgery. She is actually a nurse practitioner serving in 

neonatal intensive care units. And there was an article written 

about this little Iranian girl, a little baby that also had a heart defect that was scheduled for surgery at an Oregon university, one 

of the university hospitals in Oregon. And so I sent that immediately to my staff, who immediately contacted DHS and the Secretary, as well as I had it printed out. We were voting late at night. 
31 

1The information of Ms. Duke appears in the Appendix on page 39. 

I gave it to Senator Wyden, who passed it along to Senator 

Merkley. Secretary Kelly personally got involved. 

Now, this was not a situation where a visa had already been 

issued and they were at the airport and, the EO had an immediate 

impact. But the Secretary personally got involved, and this little 

baby girl was admitted into the country without a visa, working 

with the State Department, very quickly, within hours. And so just 

the compassion from the Secretary, from Ms. Duke I think will be 

demonstrated time and time again. So just to provide a little comfort, we have exceptional people, certainly with Secretary Kelly, 

that we have voted to confirm, I think with Ms. Duke as well. 

There is no political party that has a monopoly on compassion. 

Senator HARRIS. No, I think—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. We want to do this. We want to enforce our 

laws. We want to keep this Nation safe. 

Senator HARRIS. I think we are all in agreement on that. My concern is not about what is in the heart of Secretary Kelly. It is about 

what is in the instructions and guidance and the policies. 

Chairman JOHNSON. The good news is the little baby did get admitted, and her surgery has been successful. I want to see the news 

article. 

Senator HARRIS. It is a great story. 

Chairman JOHNSON. I want to hear more information, but there 

are privacy issues as well. But, again, I thought that was a pretty 

good news story, and, again, that certainly demonstrated to me 

how quickly the Secretary personally got involved, the waivers that 

were granted, compassion to a little Iranian baby girl I thought 

spoke volumes. But, again, I appreciate your good questions. 

Ms. Duke, again, thank you. I want to thank your family. I will 

come down and shake your hands after the hearing. You know this 

is a commitment. You know the serious nature of the responsibility 

you are assuming, and I just want to thank you for it. 

The nominee has made financial disclosures and provided responses to biographical and prehearing questions submitted by the 

Committee. Without objection, this information will be made part 

of the hearing record, with the exception of the financial data, 

which are on file and available for public inspection in the Committee offices.1

Chairman JOHNSON. The hearing record will remain open until 

noon tomorrow, March 9th, for the submission of statements and 

questions for the record. 

This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:03 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

(33) 

A P P E N D I X 
34 

Opening Statement of Claire McCaskill 

Nomination Hearing for Elaine C. Dnke to be 

Deputy Secretary, Department of Homeland Security 

March 8, 2017 

Thank you, Chairman Johnson. 

Ms. Duke, welcome. 

As you know well from your many years at the Department of Homeland Security, the 

role of Deputy Secretary is an incredibly important one. While the Secretary is the head of the 

Department and ultimately responsible for its actions, it is the Deputy Secretary who ensures that 

the trains are running on a day to day basis in order to accomplish the Department's missions. 

This requires strong leadership skills. 

When Secretary Kelly's nomination was in front of this Committee, I told him that he 

was going to need a top notch manager as his deputy. I'm pleased to see that he has, in fact, 

chosen someone with not only significant managerial experience but also someone who knows 

how to be accountable for taxpayer dollars. 

Since Ms. Duke's nomination, my staff and I have heard from many former DHS 

employees and officials about Ms. Duke's strong qualifications for this position. This includes a 

formal endorsement signed by the previous five Deputy Secretaries ofDHS attesting to Ms. 

Duke's integrity and management skills. 

I've been glad to hear of each of these endorsements because, Ms. Duke, you face a 

formidable task if confirmed. The Department of Homeland Security is the third largest federal 

agency in this country, with a $46 billion budget. It is charged with some of the most important 

duties in our government, such as overseeing cybersecurity, immigration, and emergency 
35 

management. It is also an agency, however, that has faced persistent challenges in unity of effort, 

acquisitions, and personnel. 

As you yourself have acknowledged, DHS continues to struggle with cohesion and 

mission among its many components. Many of its acquisitions programs have also been plagued 

by backlogs, delays, and budget shortfalls. In terms of employee morale, the Department is 

consistently ranked as one of the worst places to work in the federal government. 

The Department has made strides in recent years in improving procurement, acquisitions, 

and jointness, and also in prioritizing a threat/risk-based approach to programs. I know you 

played a role in many of these efforts in your time at the Department. If you are confirmed, it 

will be of the utmost importance that you continue pushing these approaches because recent 

improvements must not be allowed to be rolled back. 

As the Chief Operating Officer of this agency, I expect that you will always approach 

new and existing programs with a critical eye for how they can more effectively achieve their 

missions and more efficiently spend taxpayer dollars. I also expect that you will not hesitate to 

oppose programs that do not meet your standards of efficacy and efficiency. 

As the Department continues to be thrust into the spotlight and entrusted with some of the 

highest priorities of this Administration, the job of the Deputy Secretary in maintaining high 

operational standards in a rapidly evolving environment will be difficult. From what I have heard 

of your integrity and management skills, I believe you are up to this challenge. But this 

Committee is going to hold you accountable for how you manage these priorities for the 

Department. 

I was pleased to see that you have made a strong written commitment to responding to 

requests for information from any member of this Committee. So far, however, DHS has done a 

2 
36 

very poor job of responding to such requests. Since becoming the Ranking Member of this 

Committee, I have sent a number of requests for information in order to uphold my duty to 

oversee the agency and its actions. But DHS is failing to uphold its duty to respond to those 

requests. So far, I have outstanding requests about the implementation and details of President 

Trump's Executive Orders, requests about how the Department is going to respond to GAO 

reports and recommendations relating to whistleblower protections and the border wall, and even 

a request for two statutorily mandated cybersecurity reports to Congress that were due over a 

month ago. In addition, this complete lack of transparency escalated to the point where ICE 

refused the Committee's invitation to appear at a hearing last week. If you arc truly committed to 

transparency, I hope you will agree with me that this is absolutely unacceptable. 

When Secretary Kelly came in front of this Committee for his nomination, he made 

similar commitments to be responsive to Congress. But as evidenced by my any outstanding 

requests for information, he has yet to keep his commitment. So today, I'm going to need 

assurances from you that if you are confirmed as the Deputy Secretary of DI IS, you will usc your 

managerial duty in that role to ensure that this crucial aspect of the Department's job is no longer 

overlooked and that requests for transparency from Congress, and therefore the American 

people, will be treated with respect. 

I thank you for being here today and I look forward to your testimony. 

3 
37 

Statement of the Honorable Elaine Duke 

Before the 

U.S. Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee 

On Her Nomination to Serve as 

Deputy Secretary ofthe Department of Homeland Security 

March 8, 2017 

Mr. Chainnan, Ranking Member McCaskill, and distinguished Senators of the Committee, thank 

you for holding this hearing to consider my nomination to become the Deputy Secretary of the 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS or the Department). It would be an honor to join 

Secretary Kelly in leading the men and women of the Department as they execute the mission. 

Thank you for the kind introduction Senator Portman. My Midwestern upbringing shaped my 

values and made me the person I am today. I am proud to call myself a Buckeye. 

First, I would like to extend my thanks to President Trump and Secretary Kelly for the great trust 

they have placed in my abilities to manage the Department's daily operations. I am honored to 

have been nominated for this position. 

I'd also like to thank the former Deputy Secretaries of Homeland Security for their 

encouragement throughout this process. I draw great strength and inspiration from their support. 

I'd like to introduce my family who is here with me today: my husband, Harold; my son Jason; 

and my youngest sister, Cynthia. I want to thank my husband for supporting me in this decision 

to leave retirement and answer the call to serve. It is a sacrifice and I am grateful. Also, my son, 

Brian, who is not here today, has provided encouragement to me throughout this process. 

Finally, I'd like to recognize my father, Frank Costanzo. He cannot be here physically today, but 

I know he is cheering me on, just as he was when I interviewed for my first entry level civil 

service position 35 years ago. 

It would be an honor to serve as Secretary Kelly's deputy. T would welcome the privilege of 

supporting him as he leads the Department, maturing and strengthening its ability to execute 

critical and complex homeland security missions. When I retired from civil service just shy of 

seven years ago, I thought I had retired from public service permanently. However, when I 

received the call, I immediately knew I must say yes. 

More than 15 years after 9/11, this country continues to face many challenges in homeland 

security. There is a continued threat to our homeland, but Americans must be able to go about 

their daily lives free from fear and secure in the knowledge that they and their loved ones may 

walk down the street or go to the mall in peace. DHS is key to addressing that threat and 

ensuring that the homeland is protected. 
38 

I served the last eight of my 28 years of public service at DHS. My final position before retiring 

was the Senate-confirmed Under Secretary for Management. I understand firsthand the 

challenges ofDHS' missions, structure, and complex oversight; the diverse concerns of its many 

stakeholders; the urgency of the work; and the complexity of running the Department. I also 

know the Department's employees are the most dedicated and passionate group of civil servants 

with whom I have ever had the pleasure of working. If confirmed, I pledge to lead them in 

producing results for our beloved nation. 

I am grateful to have this opportunity to further mature the Department and continue improving 

its efficiency and effectiveness. If confirmed, I promise to lead DHS in enforcing the law with 

respect and integrity. I will be honest in my assessments and recommendations, and relentless in 

pursuing excellence. Such commitments are critical at this juncture in homeland security. 

I will do everything within my power to preserve our liberty, enforce our laws, and protect our 

citizens. I recognize the many challenges facing DHS, and if confirmed, I look forward to 

partnering with you all to protect the homeland. 

I fully understand and support the role of the Congress in its oversight and support of the 

Department. Throughout my career in government, I have always strived to work in a 

collaborative manner with Members of Congress and their staff. I know this approach is very 

important to Secretary Kelly and, if confirmed, I will ensure that our Department continues to 

work closely with you. 

Thank you for this opportunity. I am happy to answer any questions you may have. 
39 

REDACTED 

HSGAC BIOGRAPHICAL QUESTIONS FOR 

EXECUTIVE NOMINEES 

1. Basic Biographical Information 

Please provide the following information. 

City: Woodbridge Zip: 20016 

ij Name Used To 

First Name Middle Name Last Name Suffix (Month/Year) 

(Check box if 

estimate) 

Elaine Costanzo Est 

0 

6/1958 1211978 

Elaine Costanzo Spangler Est E.t 

a 0 

611978 5/1984 

1 
40 

. · . ...... · ·. ' ; · ''·• ,Bii'thYear.aitill!ltice •· . ...... . . >•· .· ......... Year of Birtlt 

(Do not include month and day.) 

!958 

Never Married 

0 

First Name 

Married 

X 

Middle Name 

Separated 

0 

Cleveland, OH 

Annulled 

0 

.. $pQl/se's, ~tlir,~f!(ltit~~vsed. ·• · · (ciz(re,nts]Jcwseo!'lfi) ·· 

2 

Place of Birth 

Divorced 

Est 

0 

Widowed 

0 

Spouse's 

Suffix 

Name Used To 

(MonthlY ear) 

(Check box if 

estimate) 

Est 

a 
41 

.· .. ·· 

• ... ···· .•· : . ··. 

First Name Middle Name LnstName Suffix 

Brian Martin Duke 

Jason Allan Duke 

2. Education 

List all post-secondary schools attended. 

Type of School Dnt£Began Date Ended 

School Name of collegc/university/militory 

(vocationnl/tcchnicaYtrade 

college, 

school, 

(month/year} ~ (month/year} (check Degree lll!!£ 

School corrcspondenccldistancelextcnsion!online (check box if box if estimate) Awarded 

(cheek "present" box school) cSti!llatC} if still in school) 

Chaminade College/University Esl Pnscmt EU PrttScmt MBA 5/1993 

University of 0 0 0 0 

Honolulu 6/1992 S/1993 

New College/University F.st PrtJent Est Prc:~llnl BS 1211981 

Hampshire 0 0 0 0 

College 9/1979 12/1981 

(now 

Sou them 

New 

Hampshire 

University) 

The College/University E!t Est f're.«nt l;::f 0 0 0 

6/1980 12/1980 

Tidewater College/University E•t £$t Prt'$<'nl 

Community 0 0 0 

College !2/1978 6/1979 

Kent State College/Universit)' "'' ••• Prese:ni 

University " a r. 

9/1976 12/1978 

3 
42 

3. Employment 

(A} List all of your employment activities, Including unemployment and self-employment. 

Ifthe employment activity was military duty, list separate employment activity periods to 

show each change of military duty stati,on. Do not list emp.oyment before your 18th 

birthday unless to proVide a minimum of two years of employment. history. 

I was a career civil servant 

from 4/1982 until 2008. I 

begun a GS-7 and ended 

my federnl career 

appointment as a:SES 

Deputy Under Secretary for 

Management. At lhatlime 

I was nominated by 

President .Bush and 

confirmed as the USM and 

served as a PAS'untU 

4/2010, when I retired from 

federnJ,service; I hnd no 

break io service d1,1riog my 

federnl career.lliave 

outlined my positions in 

DHS below, nnd at(l!ched 

my fu,ll employment 

Department of 

Homeland 

Security 

Secrefluy for 

Management 

(USM) 

4 

DC 4/1982 412010 
43 

Career Federal Civil DHS Deputy Chief Washington Est £st 

0. 0 Service Procurement DC 10/2!104 112006 

Officer 

Federal Civil Service DHS Assistant Arlington Est f..t 

0 0 

Admin.islrai<~r VA 8/2002 10/2004 for Acquisition 

Cal'eer Fe4eral Civil Smlthsoilian Deputy· Washington, Est ESt 

0 n Service Institution Director, DC I/2000 812002 Office of 

Contracting 

Career Fe~eral Civil NavalS,ea Deputy. Arlington, Est Es< 

b 0 Service Systems Diieetor;.Hull, VA 8/1999 1/2000 Coimnand Mechanical 

(NAVSEA) and Electricai 

Division: 

Career Federal Civil Naval Sea Director~ Arlington, Est Esl 

Serviee Systems Office of VA p 0 

Command Conlr3tt 4/1998 8/1999 

(NAVSEA) ~olicyand 

Administrative 

Services 

C;ireer Federal Civil Federaf Railroad Director, Washington, Est "" Service Adn;inistration Office of oe 0 0 

Acquisition 111997 4/1998 

and Grants 

I Career Federal Civil USN-Naval Head, Alelll!n'dria, f..t E>t 

0 0 Se!Vice Faci!ilies Bus.ine~· VA 5/1993 1/1997 Engineering Management 

COmmand. Branch 

Career Federal Civil USN-Navy Deputy Aiea,m e .. E>t 

ServiCe PublicWotk$ DiieQtor, n 0 

Center Pearl Contracts 5/1990 511993 

Harhor. Department 

Career Federal Civil USN-Pearl Head, Pearl "'' ""' Servicy Hamor Naval Purchase Harhor,Hl 0 0 

Shipyard Division '2/1990 S/1990 

Career:Federal Civil USN-N'a:vy Director, Honolulu, HI E<t Eo! 

Service PuhlicWorlci Maintenance 0 0 

Center Pearl Service. 7/1987 2/1990 

Hamor, Contract 

Division 

Career Federal Civil USAF -Hic)<am Centracting Honolulu, HI Est ll$t 

Service Air Force Base Officer' 0 0 

3/1987 7/1987 

Career Federal Civil USAF- pacific Chief, Tacliikawa, Ed &I 

Service Air:Forces. Installation Japan 0 0 

Contracting. Services 8/1984 3/1987 

Center Administration 

/Contract 

Career Federal Civil USAF Contract Charleston, E" E•l 

Service Charles\<)n Aii Specialist/ sc 0 0 

Foree Base Administrator 4/1982 8/!984 

5 
44 

Unemployment Not Applicable 

(B) List any advisory, consultative, honorary or other part-time. service or positions with 

federal, state, or Jocal governments, notlisted elsewhere. 

0 

l/8/2015 

4. Potential Conflict oflnterest 

' ' ~ ' ' 

. DateServiC~·Eti.i'ed ;, (m9ntliiXC'iiJ'(cJi¥Kbo~ If 

I!Stimate> (ch"'R;''ii~~5i!lt'l 

'I!Oxlqtill s~ng) : 

211412011 

Ed Prrttl'lt 

0 0 

(A) Describe:imy business telati!)nship, de:~ling or fuiancil\1 transaction which you have had 

during the.last 10 years, whether for yourself, on behalf cif a client, or acting as an agent, 

'that could in any way constitute or result'iu a possible conflict. of Interest in the position to 

which you have been nominated 

In connection with the nomination process, I have consulted with the Office of Government 

Ethics and the Dep<Utment of Homeland Security'!l Alternate Designated Agency Ethics Official 

to identify potential conflicts of interest. Any potential conflicts of interest will be resolved in 

accordance with the tei!llS of an ethics agreement that I have entered into with the Department's 

Designated Agency Ethics Officiai and that has been provided to this Committee. I am not 

aware ofany other pot!llltial conflicts of interest, 

(B) Describe any activity during the past 10 years in which you have engaged for the 

purpose of directly or indirectly influencfug the passage, defeat or modification of any 

legislation or affecting the administration or execution of law or public policy, other than 

while in a federal government capacity. 

None 

5. Honors and Awards 

List illl sCholarships, fellowships, honorary degrees, civilian service citations, niilitary 

medals, :acadf.lmic or professional honors, honorary society memberships and any other 

special recognition for outstanding service or achievement. 

Presidential Merltori.ous Rank Award 

6 
45 

DHS Secretary's Medal 

Transportation Security Administni.tion Silver Medal for Customer Ser-vke 

Department of Army Commander's Award for Public Service 

U.S. Coast Guard Distinguished Public Service Medal 

National Conti:act Management Association-Hub O'Brien Scholarship 

Navat·FacilitieS-Engineering Command Scholarship to the Naval. Postgraduate School 

6. Memberships 

List all memberships that you have held m professional, social, business, fraternal, 

scholarly, civic, or cbnl'itable organizations iii the last iO years. · 

Unless releva!J.t'tO your nommation, you do NOT need to mclude memberships m 

charitable organizations available to the public as a result of a tax .deductible donation of 

$1,000 or less, Parent-Teacher Associations or other organizations connected t(l schools 

attende.d by your Children, athletic clubs or tl!ams, automllbile support organizations (such 

as·AAA), discounts clubs (such as Groupon or Sam's Chi))), or affinity 

memberships{ consumer cinbs (such as frequent flyer memberships}• 

Government Te!lhnology and 2014-2017 

s-ervices Coalition (GTSC) 

Nationa! .. Defense.l:tidustrial .20Q7-2008 

Association (NDIA), Washington 

Chapter Board 

7. Political Activity 

·•· ,,:~··' Position{s)'HeJ~· · · .. : ./f,: ,".~:·· ,;.~:~:: 

Bonrd of Directors 

Strategic Advisor 

Ex-Officio Bo;trd Member, 

resignen when confirmed as the 

Under· Secretary for Management 

(A) Have you. ever been a candidate for or been elected or appomted to a political office.? 

7 
46 

(B) List any offices held in or services rendered to a political party or election committee 

dnring the lastten year~ that. you have not listed els.ewhere. 

None 

(C) Itemize all individual political contributions of $200 or more that you have made in the 

past five years i:o any individual, campaign organization, politlc!ll party:, political action 

committee, .or similar entity •. Please list each individual contribution and not the total 

a~l!ui!t contributed to the person or entity durliig flie year; 

None 

8. Publications and Speeches 

(A) List the titles, publishers and dates of books, articles, reports or other pub fished 

J;llaterialsthatyou h,ave written~ inCluding article!~ publiShed on the Intet'net. Please provide 

tlte Committee with copies of aU fisted publications. In lieu of hard copies, electronic copies 

ca11 be provided via e-mail or other. digital fotmat. 

Why Acquisition Programs Failand Wllat.To Do About It Homeland Security Today December2010 

(B) List any formalspeeches you have delivered during the last fi:ve years and provide the 

Committee with copies; ofthosespeeehes relevant to th~ position for which you have been 

nomlliated. Include anytestbnoliyto Congi·ess or'any othet legislative or administrative 

body; These items can be provided electronically Via e-mail or other digital format. 

·· ·.· 'Tiiiel'toJ!ie 

"Makil)g DHS More Efficient: 

Industry Recollliilenilations to 

Improve H9meland Security" 

House Committee on Homeland 

Security 

8 

9/18/2015 
47 

"Stakeholder Perspectives on House Committee on Hotneland 6/2Q/2014 

Priorities for the. Quadrennial Security 

Homeland Security ~eview" 

"The Department of .Homeland Senate :S:omeland Security and 3/21/2013 

Security at 10 Years:Beuer Governmental Alfaits Committee. 

Management and Better Restifts" 

''TSA Refunn: EJ<ploring House Committee on Homeland 9/2212011 

Innovations in Teclmology Security 

Procurement to stimulate Job 

Growtb." 

''Homeland Security Headquarters House Appropriations Committee 3/2512010 

Facilities: St. Elizabeths 1\lld 

Beyond'' 

''Rewarding Bad Actors: Why Do House. Oversighi andGovemment 3/18/20.10 

Poor Perfonning Contmctors Reform Committee 

Continue to Get Government 

Bus1ness?~' 

"Homeland Security Department's ·House Appropriations Homeland 3/2/2010 

Major Systems Acquisitions" Security Subcommittee 

"Furthering·the Mission or. Having House. Connnittee. on Homeland 214/2010 

Fun: Lax Travel Policies Costs Security 

DHSMillions" 

"One DHS, One Mission: Effocts to Senate Homeland Security :;nd 12/15/2009 

Improve Management Integration at Govenunental Affui,s Co.tilmittee 

DHS" 

"lnves.tment Managem~t and House Oversight and Government 9/15/2009 

Acquisition Challenges at the R.eform.Commiftee 

Department qfHomelalld Secllti.ty" 

"Strengthening the Federal Senate Homeland Security and 8/5/2009 

Acquisition Workforce: Governmental Affairs Committee 

Government-wide Leadershlp and 

Initiatives" 

''Protecting. Our Employees:· Senate Homeland Security and 6/16/2009 

Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Gove.tilmental Affairs Committee 

and the Federal Workforce" 

"The FY 2010 Budgetfor House Conunittee· on Homeland. 6/4/20()9 

Departmental Mimagemeot and Security 

Operations at DHS'' 

"Protecti~g the Prq!ectpt\1:. An Senate Homeland S.ecurity and 5114/2009 

Assessment ofFront-lin~Fedefal G9yemmental Affuirs Committee 

Workers in ReSPonSe lo the H!Nl 

Flu Outbreak" 

•:Keeping th~ Nation Safe throug!t 1 ~<mate Hom~Janq Sceurity aQd 9/18/2008 

the Presidential TranSition" .. ental. Affu!rs Col1lnlittee 

To consider the nomination of Senate Homeland Security and 6120/2008 

Elaine Duke to be Under Secretary Governmental Affairs Committee 

fot Management, U.S. Department 

of Homeland Securitv 

''DiverSity at DHS: Keeping Pace House Committee on 1Iomeland 5/21/2008 

or Missing the Mark?'' Security 

9 
48 

"Moving Beyond the First Five HoJlSe Committee on.Homel~nd 4/9/2008 

Years: Solving lhe Dep¥f.tnent of Security 

Homeland Security's Management 

Challenges" 

''Nuclear Smuggling Detection: House Comi,hlttee on Homelat)d 3/5/2008 

Recent Tests of Advanced Security 

Spectroscllpic Pottal Monitors." 

Is lhe Department of Homeland Senate Homeland Security and 10/17/2007 

Security Too Dependent on Govermnen!al Affairs Committee 

Contractors to Do the Government's 

Work? 

Playing.by Its Own Rules: TSA's House Committee on Homeland 8/112007 

Exemption from lhe Federal. Security 

Aci{Ulsilion Regulation, and How lt 

Impacts Partnerships with lhe 

Private Sector 

Is the Department of Homeland Senate Homeland Security and I0/17/2007 

Security Too Dependent on Governmental Afta1rs·Comntittee 

Contractors to Do lhe Government's 

Work? 

Playing by Its Own Rules: TSA's House Committee on Homdand 8/l/2007 

Exemption. from the Federal Security 

Acquisition Regulation, and How It 

Impacts Partnerships with lhe 

Private Sector 

Federal Contracting: Do Poor House Oversight and Government 7/18/2007 

Performers Keep Winning? Reform Committee 

Responsibility in Federal Homeland House Comntittee on Homeland 4/20/2()07 

Security Contracting Security 

Management of Massive Homeland House Oversight and Government 2/8/2007 

Security Contra"ts; Deepwater and Refortn Committee 

SBinet 

"The Secure Border Iultiative: House Committee on Homeland 11/1.5/2006 

Ensuring Effective linplementation Security 

and Financial Accountability· of 

SBinet" 

''Helping Business Proiect the House Committee on Homeland 9/13/2006 

Homeland: Is DHS Effectively 

Implementing the SAFET'l Act?" 

Security: 

"C.;>de Yellow: Islhe DHS House Oveisjglifand Government '11271'?-006 

Acciulsition Bureaucracy A Reform Committee 

Forinula fo.r.Disaster" 

"DHS's Procurement Proces~ House Committee on Homeland 6/15/2006 

Regarding Its Contracts with Security 

Shirlingtcn Limousine nnd 

l'ransportation Inc." 

"Sifting Through Kaliina's Legal House Oversight and Govertnnent S/412006 

Debris: .Contracting .in the.Eyc. of Refoi:ID Commitlee 

theStonn'' 

10 
49 

{C) List all speeches and testimony yqu have delivered .in the past ten years, except for 

those the text of which you are providing to the Committee. 

Please note that 1 have no official records of my speeches and presentations, so the information 

provided is CQmpiled from a search of my P!Jr&Onal records, prior submissions to the committee; 

as well .as a review of public information. The speeches lind presentations provided in the. table 

were in lny Qfficial ~pacity as a federal employee. Principally, my speeches and presentations 

have been to· inform industry and the public regarding issues of interest from DHS, The m.;:etings 

have beenpredQminately meetings and conferences in the DCmetro.area. Since leaving federal 

service, I have not given any .foimal speeches. I have.done a few radio ihterviews. See 

.http://fedenil newsradio.:cqm/tag/elaine-duke/. 

•··.;;·,•,···· ''''''/~.,<,'<;., ;,·,,tc!i:o.h~~ ~<: ·.; . .. ~ ····z ~-· ·-"'~·-·' -.;• 

::;:I,>a,~r~~·~rs.l'.•.·~~··; ,;, ; •'-.'" 

Governnient CQntract .• Managem~nt Nati9nal Contract ahagelhent Noveml)er 8, 2007 

Conference Association; Bethesda North 

Mru:riottHotel and Conference 

Cenler,J3ethesda MD. 

DHS Industry Day DHS po~ntial vendors; Ronald November 7, 2007 

Regan Bldg. Wasbi,ng!oRDC 

National:Contract Management September 2007 chapter me'eting; September 20, 2007 

AssoQiation O'Donnell's ofKentlands, 

Gaithen;burg MD 

Acquisition Management Government Advisory Panel for the 

Acquisition Management Shared 

September 7, 2007 

Interest Group (SIG); City Club of 

Was!ilngton Washington DC 

National Contract Management NCMA Local Meeting; Tyson April 25, 2007 

Association (NCMA) Comer, McLean VA 

Equity Jnteimitional Conference General Public; Natio,nal Press :Marcil 13, 2007 

Presentation on DHS 'J)rocutement Club, Wasbington DC 

procedures and prioriti(lS 

First Annual VIP Awaros Anieric;an Small Bu5ines.s March 22, 2007 

Reception for Government and Coalition, Wasl,Jington DC 

Industry 

El<ecutive Roundllible Homeland Security and Defense January l7, 2007 

Business Counoil; Army-Navy 

Club, Wasbington DC. 

9. Criminal History 

Since (and Including) your 181

h birthdny, has any of the following happened? 

• · Have you been 'issue~ a summons, cit~tion, ot·ticket to appear in court iti a criminal proceeding against you? 

(Exclude citations involving traffic .infractions where. the fme was less than $300 and did not include alcohol or drugs,) NO . 

11 
50 

Have you be.en arrested by any poliye officer, sheyift marshai or any other ~e oflnw enforcement officialT 

NO 

Hove you been charged, convicted, or sentenced of a crime in any court? NO 

I! ave you been or are you currently on probation or parole? NO 

• Are·you currently on trial or awaiting a trial on criminal charges'/ NO 

To your knoWledge, h!IYC you cvet been the.~ubject or target of a federal, S!Jlte or local criininnl investigation? No 

If the answer to any of the questions· above is yes, .please answer the questions below for 

each erinibtal event (citation; arrest; investigation, etc.). If th.e event was an investigation, 

where the question below asks for information about the offense, ple~se offer information. 

about the offense under Investigation (if known). 

A) Dat~ of offense: 

a. IS iltis an estimate (Yes/No): 

B) Description of the specific tlature·ofthe offense;. 

C) Did the offeru;e involve any of the foUowing? 

i) Domestic violence or a crime of violence (such as ba(tery or· assault) agairu;t your chiid; dependent, 

cohabitant, spouse, former spouse, or someone with whom you share a child. in com:m.on: Yes I No 

2) Firearms-or explosives: Yes /No 

:!) Alcohol or drugs: Yes I No 

D) Location where·the offense occurred (city, county, state,:ziP code, country): 

E) Were you arrested, summoned, citeq or did. you receive a ticketio appear as a result o~ this offense by' any 

police officer, sjleriff; marshal or'any other type oflaw·enforcement official: Yes /No 

1) Name of the law enforcement ~gency that arrested/citctilsumriloncd you: 

2) Location of the law enforcement agency (city, county, state; zip code, coQlltry): 

F) As a result of this offense wete you charged, convicted, currently aWlliting lrla!, and/or ordered to appear in 

court in a criminal proceeding against you: Yes I No 

I) . If yes, provide the name of the court and the location of the court (city, coUllty, state, zip code, 

cowttry): · 

2) II yes, provide· all ihe.charges. brought a:ga!n.qt. you for this offenst; and the outcome of each cbargetj 

offense (such as found.gUilty, found !lot-guilty, char;ge dropped or."nolle pros," etc).lfyouwere found 

·guilty of orpleaded guilty to a lesser offense, iist separately both the original charge and the lesser 

offense: 

12 
51 

3) If no, provide.explanation: 

G) Were you sentenced as a result of this offense: Yes I N.o 

H) Provide. a description of the sentence: 

l) Were·you sentenced to imprisonment for a term exceeding one year: Yes I No 

J) Were you incarcerated as a result oft hat sentence foniot less than one year: Yes I No 

K) If the conviction resulted ill imprisonment, provide the d11tes that you actually were incarcerated: 

L) If conviction resulted in probation or parole, provide tlte d~tes of probation or parole: 

M) Are yoil currently on trial, awaiting a trial, or awaiting sentencing on criminal charges for this offense: Yes I 

No 

N) Provide explanation: 

13 
52 

10. Civil Litigation and Administrative or Legislative Proceedings 

(A) Since (and inclu'ding) your 18th birthday, have you been a party to any public record 

civil court action or ad~strative_ or legislative proceeding of any Wnd tJiat resulted in (1) 

a fmding of wrongdoing against you, or (2) a settlement agreemenffor you, or some other 

person or-entity, to make a payment to settle allegations against you, ot foi: you to take, or 

refrain from taking, ~ome action. Do NOT incl11de small claims proceedings. 

None 

(B) In addition to those listed above, have you or any business of which you were an officer, 

directo.r or owner ever .been involved as .a party of interest in 3ny ad,ininistrative agency 

proceeding or civil litigation? Please identify and provide details for any proceedings or 

civil litigation that involve actions taken or omitted. by you, or alleged to have been taken or 

omitted by you, while: serving in your official capacity. 

None 

_Date'Clrliiii;!Sllit 

w~ii'Fll~ii: -.. -.-.-,- -

~~rii!>- .. -.-. R~snltsof 

Aetii\n!Prriceeding 

(C) For responses to .the pr1,1vious question, please Identify and provide details for a}Jy 

proceedings or civil litigation that involve actions taken or omitted by you, or alleged to 

have been taken or omitted by you, while serving in your official capacity. 

11. Breach of Professional Ethics 

(A) Have you ever been disciplined or cited for~ breach of ethics or unpr~fessional 

conduct by, or been the subject of a complaint to, any court, adminiStrative agency, 

profcssimial association, disciplinary committee, or other professional group? 

ExclUde cases and proceedings aiready listed. 

14 
53 

NO 

(B) llave you ever been jired from a ]9b, quit a job after being told you would be fired, left 

a job by mutual agreement following charges or allegations of misconduct, left a job by 

mutual agreement.following· notice of unsatiSfactory performance, or received a written 

warning,. been officially repr.imanded, suspended, or disciplined for misconduct in the 

WOI;'kplace, ·such as violation ofa ·scc.arity policy? 

NO. 

12, Tax Compliance. 

(This ·information will not be published in the record of the hearing on· your nomination, 

but it will be retained in the Committee's files and wilii:Je available for publiC-inspectio,n.) 

REDACTED 
54 

REDACTED 

13. Lobbying 

In the past ten years, have you registered as a lobbyist? If so, please bldicate the state; 

federal, or local bodies. with which Yon have registered (c;g,, House, ·Senate? California 

Secretary of State). 

NO 

14. Outside Positions 

X: See OGE Form .278. (If, for· your nomination, yo~;t.have·completcd an OGE Form 278 

El\.ecutive Branch Personnel Public Financial Disclosure Report, you may check the box here to 

complete trus section and then proceed to the next s;;:ction.) . .. 

For tbe preceding ten calendar years and the curretit calendar year, reportany position:s 

held, whether compensated or not. Positfons ~elude but are not UJDited to those of an 

officer, director, trustee, general partner, proprietor; r.epresentative, eniployee, or 

consultant ofaliy corporation, firm, pa~'tners~iP, or othe.r businel!S ent~rpri11e or ~y nonprofit organization .or educational institution. Exclude positions with religious, social, 

fraternal, or political entities an(!. those solely of an honorary nature. 

17 
55 

15. Agreements or Arrangements 

X See OGE. Forri127S. (If, for your nomination,, you have. completed an OGB Form 2'78 

Executive Branch Personnel Priblio Financial DisQ.lo;rore Report, you may chi:(Ck the. box here to 

complete this section and then proce.ed. to the nextsection~) 

As of the ~ate of filing your OGE Fqrm 278, report your agreements .or arrangements for: 

(1} continufug.par'ticipation in lin employe.e benefit plan (e.g. pension, 40lk, deferred 

ciimpensation); .(~) continuation of payment by a former employer (includfug severan,ce 

paytlieilts); (3) leaves of absence; and (4) future employment. 

Provide information regarding any agreements or· arrangements yGu have concerning· (l) 

future employment; (2) a leave of absl;!nced~tring your period of Govenunent.service; (3) 

continuation of payments by a former employer other than the United States Govemment; 

and{4} continuing participation in an employee welfare or benefit ·plan maintained by a · 

former employer other than United ·states Government retirement benefits. 

16. Additional Finattcial Data 

All ~(ormation requested under this heading must be provided .for yourself, your 11pouse,. 

and yo.Ur dependents. (This information will not be published in the r.ecord of the hearing 

on your·nomination, but.itwill be·retained in·the Committee's files and will be available for 

public inspection,) 

REDACTED 
SIGNATURE AND DATE 

I hereby state that I have read the foregoing Statement on Biographical and Financl~l Information and that the inf

provided therein is, to the best of my knowledge; current, accurate; and complete. 

?OM___ ~ ............... --"--.... 

This )_Ldayof~ ,20 t"? 

25 
57 

UNITED STATES OFFICE OF 

GOVERNMENT ETHICS 

* 

The Honorable Ron Johnson 

Chairman 

Committee on Homeland Security 

and Governmental Affairs 

United States Senate 

Washington, DC 20510 

Dear Mr. Chairman: 

REDACTED 

March 1, 2017 

In accordance with the Ethics in Government Act of 1978, I enclose a copy ofthe 

financial disclosure report filed by Elaine C. Duke, who has been nominated by President Trump 

for the position of Deputy Secretary, Department of Homeland Security. 

We have reviewed the report and have obtained advice from the agency concerning any 

possible conflict in light of its functions and the nominee's proposed duties. Also enclosed is an 

ethics agreement outlining the actions that the nominee will undertake to avoid conflicts of 

interest. Unless a date for compliance is indicated in the ethics agreement, the nominee must 

fully comply within three months of confirmation with any action specified in the ethics 

agreement. 

Based thereon, we believe that this nominee is in compliance with applicable laws and 

regulations governing conflicts of interest. 

Enclosures REDACTED 

Sincerely! 

WALTER 

SHAUB 

Walter M. Shaub, Jr. 

Director 

fl(al!Oli)'•j!>'Odb)·WA!.TE!tSfMUll 

PN;o~us.o•U.S Go>~m:nc:u,oo-orti"'J>i 

~'~~:~~~:t:7~;!'~~~~5s O:ltl~I71Y.l,II!I>I34 . .J$<1!5W 

1201 NEW YORK AVE NW·SUITESOO·WASHINGTON DC·20005 * * * 
58 

Joseph B. Maher 

Designated Agency Ethics Official 

Department of Homeland Security 

Washington. D.C. 20528-0485 

Dear Mr. Maher: 

March 1, 2017 

The puipose of this letter is to describe the steps that I will take to avoid any actual or 

apparent conflict of interest in the event that I am confirmed for the position of Deputy Secretary 

of the Department of Homeland Security. 

As required by 18 U.S.C. § 208(a), I will not participate personally and substantially in 

any particular matter in which I know that I have a financial interest directly and predictably 

affected by the matter, or in which I know that a person whose interests are imputed to me has a 

financial interest directly and predictably affected by the matter, unless I first obtain a written 

waiver, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 208(b)(l), or qualify for a regulatory exemption, pursuant to 

18 U.S. C. § 208(b)(2). I understand that the interests of the following persons are imputed to 

me: any spouse or minor child of mine; any general partner of a partnership in which I am a 

limited or gei~eral partner; any organization in which 1 serve as officer, director, trustee, general 

partner or employee; and any person or organization with which I am negotiating or have an 

arrangement concerning prospective employment. 

I am the principal and owner of my consulting limited liability corporation. which does 

business as Elaine Duke and Associates, LLC (the "LLC"). Upon confirmation, the LLC will 

cease engaging in any business. During my appointment to the position of Deputy Secretary, the 

LLC will remain dormant and will not advertise. I will not perform any services for the LLC, 

except that I will comply with any requirements involving legal filings, taxes and fees that are 

necessary to maintain the LLC while it is in an inactive. status. As Deputy Secretary, I will not 

participate personally and substantially in any particular matter that to my knowledge has a direct 

and predictable effect on the financial interests of my LLC. All amounts owed to me by any of 

my clients will be fixed before I assume the duties of the position ofDeputy Secretary, and I will 

not participate personally and substantially in any particular matter that to my knowledge has a 

direct and predictable effect on the ability or willingness of any of these clients to pay these 

amounts. In addition, I will not participate personally and substantially in any particular matter 

involving specific parties in which I know a former client of mine is a party or represents a party 

for a period of one year after I last provided service to that client, unless I am first authorized to 

participate, pursuant to 5 C.F.R. § 2635.502(d). 

Upon confirmation, I will resign from my position with Anser. I have already resigned 

from my positions with the Government Technology and Services Coalition in January 2017 and 

the Homeland Security Studies & Analysis Institute in October 2016. For a period of one year 
59 

after my resignation from each of these entities, I will not participate personally and ·substantially 

in any particular matter involving specific parties in which I know that entity is a party or 

represents a party, unless I am first authorized to participate, pursuant to 5 C.F.R. § 2635.502(d}. 

My spouse serves as a Director for Tridentis. He does not .hold stock, stock options, or 

restricted stock in Tridentis. For as long as my spouse continues toprovide services to Tridentis, 

I will not participate personally and substantially in any particular matter involving specific 

parties in which l know that Tridentis is a party or represents a party, unless I am first authorized 

to participate, pursuant to 5 C.F.R. § 2635.502(d). 

My spouse also serves as a Director for Vista Technology Services, Inc. He owns stock 

options in Vista Technology S~:rvices, Inc. I will not participate personally and substantially in 

any particular matter that to my knowledge has a direct and predictable effect on the financial 

interests ofVista Technology Services, Inc., unless I first obtain a written waiver, pursuant to 

18 u.s.c. § 208(b)(l). 

If I haV'e a managed account or othet:wise use the services of an investment professional 

during my appointment, I will ensure that the account manager or investment professional 

obtains my prior approval on a case-by-case basis for the purchase of any assets other than cash, 

cash equivalents, investment funds that quality for the exemption at 5 C.P.R. § 2640.201(a), or 

obligations of the United States. 

I will meet in person with you during the first week of my service in the position of 

Deputy Secretary in order to complete the initial ethics briefing required under-5 C.F .R. 

§ 2638.305. Within 90 days of my confirmation, I will document my compliance with this ethics 

agreement by notifYing you in writing when I have completed the steps described in this ethics 

agreement 

I understand that as an appointee I will be required to sign the Ethics Pledge (Exec. Order 

no. 13, 770) and that I will be bound by the requirements and restrictions therein in addition to. 

the commitments I have made in this ethics agreement. 

I have been advised that this ethics agreement will be posted publicly, consiStent with 

5 U.S.C. § 552, on the website of the U.S. Office ofGovermnent Ethics with ethics agreements 

of other Presidential nominees who file public financial disclosure reportS. 

Sincerely, 

62Lf)_L 

Elaine Costanzo Duke 

2 
60 

U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

Pre-hearing Questionnaire 

For the Nomination ofthe Honorable Elaine Duke to be 

Deputy Secretary, Department of Homeland Security 

I. Nomination Process and Conflicts oflnterest 

I. Did President Trump give you specific reasons why he nominated you to be the next Deputy 

Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS or "the Department"), and if so, 

what were they? 

I have not had a conversation with the President. I had a conversation with Secretary 

Kelly and he indicated he needed the experience, leadership and knowledge of 

Department of Homeland Security (DHS) operations that I possess as his Deputy. He 

wants the Deputy to perform as a Chief Operating Officer (COO) and based his 

decision that I can do that given my experience and recommendations from persons 

within and outside DHS. 

2. Were any conditions, expressed or implied, attached to your proposed nomination? If so, 

please explain. 

No. 

3. Have you made any commitments with respect to the policies and principles you will attempt 

to implement as Deputy Secretary? If so, what are they, and to whom were the commitments 

made? 

I committed to Secretary Kelly that I will lead with integrity, treat all with respect, and 

perform as a public servant, considering the best interests ofthe people of the United 

States in all decisions. 

4. Are you aware of any business relationship, dealing, or financial transaction that can result in 

a possible conflict of interest for you or the appearance of a conflict of interest? If so, please 

explain what procedures you will use to recuse yourself or otherwise address the conflict. 

And if you will recuse yourself, explain how you will ensure your responsibilities are not 

affected by your recusal. 

I have worked closely with the Department's Ethics advisor during the nomination 

process. There are potentially three recusals that would be placed in my Ethics Pledge, 

and I have been advised that only one may affect my work on one particular matter. If 

that is the case, I will have controls in place to ensure I do not receive any 

communication or material on the matter. 

II. Background of the Nominee 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 1 
61 

5. What specific background, experience, and attributes qualify you to be Deputy Secretary? 

The depth and breadth of my background and experience qualify me to be Deputy 

Secretary. I spent 26 years as a career federal employee. During my tenure, I came to 

fully realize the complexities ofthe federal system and most importantly, I have gained 

the needed insight and experience with DHS to help accomplish its mission. During 

that time, I have most importantly, learned how to comply and follow the regulations 

and statutes to deliver mission capability effectively. I have effectively managed risk 

and balanced mission needs with fiduciary responsibility to get results. In my years as 

a political appointee, I gained an even better understanding of the importance for 

career and political appointees to operate cohesively, each group valuing what the other 

brings to the table. In addition, the value of good relations and respect for DHS's 

congressional committees, oversight bodies, the press, and most importantly credibility 

with the American people. 

6. Please describe: 

a. Your leadership and management style. 

I am an empowering leader and manager. I develop an environment where individuals 

and teams own their work, and I bold them accountable for results. I provide an 

environment that rewards effective innovation, especially from the persons performing 

the work. I thrive on open communications both ways. I ensure that my direction is 

clear while allowing for individual creativity and improvements. Similarly, I am open 

to ideas and feedback from employees, including advice and counsel. I can and will 

make decisions; however, I encourage participation throughout the decision making 

process and as implementation occurs. 

I am also passionate about growing employees, providing assignments that are 

preparing them for the next position. I value diversity, and diversity of experience and 

try to provide a career path for all employees that is continually rewarding and 

challenging. 

b. Your experience managing personnel. 

I have managed from a few employees to thousands of personnel that impacted the 

entire Department. I have been a federal manager since my early years of federal 

service. I have led both civilian and military personnel at a local and national level. In 

managing personnel, I both lead and manage. To me, leading is the primary 

contributor to empowering, encouraging, and challenging employees, while managing is 

reinforcing and ensuring performance plans are accurate and in place, and metrics are 

met. It is also essential that employees receive the training necessary for their job. 

c. What is the largest number of people that have worked under you? 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 2 
62 

As Under Secretary for Management at DHS, I had approximately 2,000 people 

working under my leadership. This number includes employees in the offices of the 

Office of the Chief Information Officer, Chief Procurement Officer, Chief Security 

Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Program Accountability and Risk Management 

(PARM) Chief Administrative Officer, and Chief Human Capital Officer. 

7. Please provide the dates of your service at the Department during the Bush to Obama 

administrations. 

I started with Transportation Security Administration (TSA) in August of2002, and 

became a member of the Department when TSA transferred from Department of 

Transportation in 2003. I then served in career positions at the Department as the 

Deputy Chief Procurement Officer, Chief Procurement Officer, and Deputy Under 

Secretary for Management until I eon firmed as the Under Secretary for Management 

(USM) in June of2008. I served as the USM until April of2010. 

a. President Obama and Secretary Napolitano chose to have you remain in your position at 

DHS when they entered office in 2009. Why do you believe you were asked to stay? 

I believe I was asked to stay for two reasons. First, I believe the President and Secretary 

Napolitano recognized the necessity for continuity in the position ofUSM, especially as 

there was no career deputy at that time. The USM serves as the Executive Lead for 

Transition and Chief Management Office for the Department, and a vacancy would 

have been detrimental to the Department's operations. Second, I have a track record 

for putting the good of the country first, aside from politics. As both a career employee 

and political appointee I have executed my responsibilities in a nonpartisan manner, 

focusing on implementing policies effectively and efficiently. I know the Department's 

mission and its business operations, and I performed my duties in a way that enhanced 

the Department's ability to fulfill its critical missions. Further, I have interagency 

experience and can reach across the executive branch to accomplish Department 

objectives. I respect both the House and Senate as well as other oversight bodies 

including the Government Accountability Office (GAO) and the Office of the Inspector 

General (OIG). In my opinion, it was for these reasons that I was asked to stay with the 

New Administration in 2009. 

b. What lessons did you learn from experiencing the Department transition to a new 

administration that you could bring to the role of Deputy Secretary? 

I expanded my knowledge on the importance and diversity of positions, the importance 

of open and honest discussions, and the need to communicate decisions to stakeholders. 

I also learned that the components each have expertise in certain areas, and not just in 

their mission areas. I saw all components coming together to ensure the homeland was 

safe during the transition, and how well they worked together. If confirmed I would use 

this to improve jointness and collaboration during routine operations. Additionally, my 

experience with leading employees through challenges increased. I have a stronger 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 3 
63 

understanding of employees' desire to have meaningful work, be trusted and included 

as appropriate in the decision making process surrounding their work. 

III. Role ofthe Deputy Secretary ofDHS 

8. Please describe your understanding of the role and responsibilities of the Deputy Secretary of 

DHS, including how you view the role in relation to the Secretary? 

The Deputy Secretary is the Chief Operating Officer for the Department which 

necessitates a close working relationship with the Secretary. I understand the role ofthe 

Deputy Secretary is to lead the men and women of DHS in daily executing the critical 

and complex mission set of the Department. This leadership must consider the short 

term, immediate needs, as well as the long-term health and welfare ofDHS employees 

and the nation. 

9. If confirmed, what are the highest priority items you intend to focus on? What do you hope to 

accomplish during your tenure as Deputy Secretary? 

There are many high priority items in DHS and if confirmed as Deputy Secretary, I 

believe it is important for me to not only focus on the high priority items, but those 

more routine also. I have learned that only focusing on urgent, priorities stifles 

maturation and growth in the organization. Regarding high priority however, some I 

would expect to work on include cyber, critical infrastructure, TSA reinvention, border 

security, immigration, acquisition, staffing, retention, and morale, and unity of effort. 

I 0. What actions will you take to ensure better cohesion and cooperation among all DHS 

components? 

If confirmed, I would start driving better cohesion and cooperation among all DHS 

components from the top. I would maintain the regular and topical meetings with 

component heads to address matters but also to build an esprit de corps; and, a team 

that not only considers individual silos, but the good of the whole. I would also include 

the mission support organizations so they can develop better synergy and consistency. I 

would continue unity of effort actions to mature operator driven requirements, risk 

based capabilities, joint requirements, and resource allocation tied to priorities. I 

understand operations and business, as well as opportunities for joint operations and 

back office functions. 

Mutual respect, clarification of responsibilities 

II. As you advise the Secretary, what qualities will you look for in recommending people for 

DHS's other leadership positions? 

If I am confirmed, I will advise the Secretary to look for people who are committed, 

focused, and with the right skill and abilities to perform their roles in DHS. These 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 4 
64 

individuals must understand that they are public servants and that they will be held 

accountable as individuals as well as team members to the Secretary, myself, and the 

American people. The commitment must also encompass respect and compassion as 

necessary in all their dealings. The focus is on the mission, and that DHS must 

continually find ways to adapt to the evolving threats, find efficiency in operations and 

management, and deliver results. The skills and abilities are their present technical and 

leadership skills, and predicted ability to grow even stronger in those skills and abilities. 

IV. Policy Questions 

The Quadrennial Homeland Security Review and DHS's Missions 

12. The Homeland Security Act (HSA) requires the Department to produce, every four years, a 

Quadrennial Homeland Security Review (QHSR). Please share your overall assessment of 

the 2014 QHSR and to what extent, and the reasons why, you agree or disagree with its 

stated assumptions, missions, goals, and recommendations. 

The 2014 QHSR is a sound document. It presents the mission sets of DHS and in a 

comprehensive and logical way as the Department saw the world at that time. I believe 

that the 2018 QHSR must be based on a more mature, rigorous study and analysis that 

supports the national homeland security strategy, guides a more precise alignment of 

resources to the strategy, and an updated look at the threats and risks facing our 

nation. If confirmed, I commit to leading DHS in achieving this for the 2018 QHSR. 

Mission 1-Prevent Terrorism and Enhance Security 

13. According to the QHSR, the Department's first mission is to prevent terrorism and enhance 

security. Please describe: 

a. The Deputy Secretary's role in ensuring that the Department executes this mission. 

The Deputy Secretary is the is the Chief Operating Officer for the Department and 

should I be confirmed my role would be to ensure that necessary resources (human, 

financial, systems) are obtained and applied in the most effective and efficient way to 

deliver that mission. My role also would also be to participate in developing policy and 

coordination, as a member of the interagency Deputies Committee, to enhance our 

ability to prevent terrorism and enhance security. I would work within the executive 

branch and across DHS's oversight bodies to build relations, develop and address 

commonalities and touch points, and align resources for successful mission execution. 

b. Operational or management challenges that the Department faces in executing this 

mission. 

I believe the most significant operational challenge facing DHS in executing its mission 

is matching the speed and nimbleness of the terrorist and the rapid evolution ofthreats 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 5 
65 

facing our nation's security; while being responsible stewards of the trust and resources 

given to the Department. 

c. What actions, if any, you recommend to improve DHS's operations to achieve this 

mission. 

I would recommend two initial actions to improve DHS's operations. First, DHS must 

find ways to align its business processes better to the mission. This includes analyzing 

risk continually and appropriately for the situation. Then finding ways to shorten 

schedule and reduce cost in major areas such as procurement, acquisition, deploying 

information technology systems, and staffing. Second, I would recommend DHS 

continue working toward appropriate jointness in mission and business, prioritizing 

using a threat/risk based approach. Joint operations will deliver homeland more 

securely, and can be done in a way that respect the individual mission and operations of 

each component, but deliver those in a way that provides a more cohesive mission 

system; rather than discrete, unconnected, and potentially duplicative or inefficient 

mission delivery. 

d. How you will approach balancing the need to protect the homeland while at the same 

time protecting individuals' privacy, civil rights, and civil liberties? 

If confirmed, I will balance the need to protect the homeland while at the same time 

protecting individuals' privacy, civil rights, and civil liberties by following the law. I 

will make the Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and Office of Privacy key 

members of decision teams so these areas are appropriately considered in context of the 

law and situation. 

Mission 2-Secure and Manage Our Borders 

14. Please describe your understanding ofDHS's capability to achieve the three goals identified 

in the 2014 QHSR for the mission to secure and manage our borders. 

I consider securing and managing our borders of paramount importance, and if 

confirmed, will assess the current capabilities and resources to perform this mission. 

15. Please describe the operational and management challenges facing the Department's mission 

to secure and manage our borders. 

The operational challenge facing the Department is to develop the best layered defense 

of personnel, policy, international relations, and the physical and technological 

infrastructure to secure and manage our borders. The management challenge is 

delivering the resource and efficient processes to meet the operational challenge. This 

includes hiring and retaining the right personnel for border security, and the 

appropriating funding. 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page6 
66 

16. At this point, what actions do you recommend the Department take to improve border 

security? 

If confirmed, I will work with Department leadership to analyze the current state of our 

border security using the recently enacted and to be developed border metrics. I do not 

have current knowledge of the state of border security. 

Mission 3-Enforce and Administer Our Immigration Laws 

17. Please describe your understanding ofDHS's capability to achieve the goals identified in the 

2014 QHSR for the mission to enforce and administer our immigration laws. 

If confirmed, I will assess the current capabilities and resources to perform this 

mission. I understand the necessity and complexity of enforcing and administering our 

immigration laws and will make reviewing DHS's capability to meet the mission a 

priority. 

18. How would you work to improve cooperation and coordination between DHS components 

responsible for administering immigration benefits and enforcing immigration laws? 

If confirmed, I would use the Deputies Management Action Group (DMAG) or a 

similar forum to develop mission cooperation and coordination. I would ensure that 

the DMAG members represented not only their individual component, but understood 

their role in making the mission set operate more effectively. I think that this culture 

could be supported in key ways, including (1) resource allocation and management (2) 

managing the SES corps more effectively and developing a rotation plan for 

Departmental personnel. 

19. What is your understanding of the challenges facing DHS and the State Department in visa 

security? How would you recommend addressing those challenges? 

Should I be confirmed, I will look into the challenges facing DHS and the State 

Department in visa security, including a full review of current processes. My 

understanding is that a key challenge facing DHS and State Department are the lack of 

control of exit, and therefore a significant number of persons that overstay their visa. I 

believe exit and case management are potential methods of addressing some of the 

challenges, part of a multilayered approach to visa security. 

Mission 4-Safeguard and Secure Cyberspace 

20. Please describe your understanding ofDHS's capability to achieve the four goals identified 

in the 2014 QHSR for the mission to safeguard and secure cyberspace. 

If confirmed, I will assess the current capabilities and resources to perform this 

mission, as well as the effectiveness ofthe goals in the current cyber environment. 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 7 
67 

21. Please describe your understanding of the Department's responsibilities for cybersecurity. 

My understanding is that DHS has responsibilities for securing of its own systems and 

the .gov systems by working with other cabinet departments and agencies. DHS also 

shares cyber threat information with the private sector. If confirmed, I will develop a 

complete understanding of the Department's roles and responsibilities and 

cybersecurity. 

a. Do you have recommendations for how to improve the operational performance of the 

Department's cybersecurity assets and programs? 

If confirmed, I will assess the Department's cyber assets and programs and their ability 

to meet the cyber mission set. 

22. The DHS Inspector General has identified challenges that the Department's own components 

and offices have faced in complying with federal information security policies. Do you have 

recommendations for how the Department's components, offices, and workforce comply 

with federal cybersccurity laws and practices? 

In general, my experience is that the IG's assessments and challenges are valid in 

identifying ways to improve the Department. I am not familiar with the recent specific 

recommendations of the DHS Inspector General (IG), however I will obtain them if 

confirmed and assess progress and action plans. As with all IG reports, I will track 

progress against recommendations. 

23. Today there are more than 20 agencies across the federal government with roles and 

responsibilities associated with U.S. cyber capabilities. What role do you believe the 

Department should play in this ecosystem? 

I believe it is important for the role ofDHS to be strong and clear, and that it must 

fulfill its roles and responsibilities fully in cooperation with other agencies, industry, 

and other key stakeholders. If confirmed, I will utilize existing authorities to continue 

working with other federal government agencies and key partners to obtain a complete 

understanding of the DHS cyber role. 

Mission 5--Strengthen National Preparedness and Resilience 

24. Please describe your understanding ofDHS's capability to achieve the four goals identified 

in the 2014 QHSR for the mission to strengthen national preparedness and resilience. 

If confirmed, I will assess the Department's capability to achieve strengthening national 

preparedness and resilience. We must reduce the vulnerability of our nation by 

promoting awareness, mitigating existing risk, aud ensuring we have au effective 

response and ability to recover from those risks that cannot be mitigated. 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 8 
68 

25. How do you evaluate the current state of national preparedness for emergencies and disasters, 

including the capabilities of individuals and communities? 

I understand that much work has been done to improve preparedness at the individual, 

community, first responder, regional, state, and federal levels. I also understand that 

additional work must be done to further bolster preparedness at all levels. If confirmed 

I will review the programs and priorities and work with FEMA to reaffirm a persistent, 

effective, and comprehensive view of preparedness. 

26. Based on your past work at DHS, are you aware of operational challenges that FEMA faces 

in executing its responsibilities? If so, please describe them. What actions would you 

recommend to improve FEMA's operational performance? 

Based ou my past work at DHS, one of the operational challenges FEMA faced was 

balancing planning with other mission needs. Its response and recovery was more 

mature at that time. If confirmed, I would assess the current planning, including 

supporting business functions (contingency workforce, contracts, systems) to help 

prepare for future response aud recovery operations. Additionally, oversight of grants 

was a challenge. This is critically important to FEMA since every grant dollar should 

be appropriately expended to further the prevention, preparedness, readiness and 

resilience of our jurisdictions. Proper award and administration ofFEMA's grant 

programs is critical to successful operational performance. I would work with FEMA 

leadership to ensure that the appropriate balance of roles and responsibilities between 

the regions and headquarters has been achieved. 

Management, Accountability, and Oversight 

27. What role do you believe the Deputy Secretary should play in addressing the High-Risk 

management weaknesses that have been identified by GAO? 

I believe the Deputy Secretary should play a lead role addressing the GAO High Risk 

List. If confirmed, as the Secretary's Chief Operating Officer I would play a strong 

leadership role, with the Under Secretary for Management, in managing and reducing 

the risk areas. 

28. What do you believe are the most important actions DHS should take to strengthen overall 

management of the Department? 

I believe one of the most important actions the Department should take to strengthen 

overall management is to continue to mature the "unity of effort" initiative. The unity 

of effort is not just management, it sets the platform to launch the joint operations 

necessary for the Department's future. This includes strengthening strategy and policy, 

planning, requirements, budget and resources, acquisition, as well as operations and 

logistics. These factors should not only be reinforced individually but also fortified as a 

whole, with consistent priorities and objectives. 

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29. What steps do you believe DHS can take to ensure federal funds expended by the agency are 

free from duplication and waste? 

Should I be confirmed, I believe DHS should have a strong "grass roots" program that 

allows its employees to identity duplication and waste, and a culture that makes leaders 

accountable for eliminating duplication and waste- and that includes clearing the way 

for employees to do the right thing. 

30. If confirmed, will you commit to reviewing any DHS programs that you believe could be 

eliminated because they are ineffective, duplicative, wasteful, unnecessary, or have outlived 

their purpose and report that information to Congress? 

If confirmed, I will without reservation. I support this request and consider it 

important to DHS. 

31. DHS received clean audit opinions on its financial statements in 2013, 2014, and 2015. 

However, there are material weaknesses in DHS's internal controls over financial reporting. 

What steps would you take as Deputy Secretary to address these material weaknesses? 

If confirmed, I would first ensure that the plans to eliminate the material weaknesses 

are sound and will lead to the necessary correction. Secondly, I would keep the 

leadership focused on following through with actions that meet the objective. 

32. Throughout its history, DHS has struggled with efforts to modernize and integrate the 

numerous financial systems on which the components operate. What do you see as the most 

viable path forward for DHS to develop real-time, accurate, and comprehensive data on its 

finances and to use this data to inform budget decisions and resource allocation? 

I believe that the move to the DHS common appropriations structure is a step toward to 

assist in the modernization and integration of the financial system. While it does not 

integrate the systems, it does take a first step toward standardization, setting a base for 

future integration. I understand the modernization must be efficiently done, and 

shared services is one potential avenue of efficiency. 

33. Please describe how you will work with the Government Accountability Office and the DHS 

Inspector General to address open recommendations and improve the Department's 

performance. 

If confirmed, I would work with GAO and the IG proactively. I would have regular 

conversations with those groups, not just in reaction to a report. I believe that, in 

conjunction with the reports and recommendations, will serve to improve the 

Department's performance more quickly and completely. Regarding open 

recommendations, I would make sure I have visibility into key information including 

(1) trends- where similar findings and recommendations are being found across 

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programs and multiple years in one program (2) priorities- areas critical to mission 

success (3) timeliness- of both the responses and corrections (4) validity of responsedoes the response correct the issue. 

34. Protecting whistleblower confidentiality is of the utmost importance to this Committee: 

a. In your career, how have you addressed whistleblower complaints? What steps did you 

take to ensure those individuals did not face retaliation and that their claims were 

thoroughly investigated? 

I have always addressed whistleblower complaints per the law, following through to 

ensure the individuals did not face retaliation and the claims were thoroughly 

investigated. Should I be confirmed I will continue to do so. 

b. How do you plan to implement policies within the agency to encourage employees to 

bring constructive suggestions forward without the fear of reprisal? 

This is so important to DHS because it will improve employee morale, but more 

importantly will lead to improved operations. If confirmed, I will drive a culture that 

includes the action officers, such as program managers, to present at decision meetings, 

not just the most senior leadership. I will ensure there are avenues for suggestions, 

such as the Idea Factory, and that the suggestions get attention. I will strongly support 

the Whistleblower Act and act on any credible allegation of reprisal. 

c. Do you commit without reservation to work to ensure that any whistleblower within DHS 

does not face retaliation? 

Should I be confirmed, I will without reservation. 

d. Do you commit without reservation to take all appropriate action if notified about 

potential whistleblower retaliation? 

Should I be confirmed, I will without reservation. 

V. Relations with Congress 

35. Do you agree without reservation to comply with any request or summons to appear and 

testifY before any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are confirmed? 

Should I be confirmed, I will work cooperatively with the Chairs and Members of the 

committees that have jurisdiction over the Department's activities, and appear before 

those committees in a manner consistent with applicable law. 

36. Do you agree without reservation to make any subordinate official or employee available to 

appear and testify before, or provide information to, any duly constituted committee of 

Congress if you are confirmed? 

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Should I be confirmed, I make subordinate officials and employees available to appear 

and testify before committees that have jurisdiction over the Department's activities, in 

a manner that is consistent with applicable law. 

37. Do you agree without reservation to comply fully, completely, and promptly to any request 

for documents, communications, or any other agency material or information from any duly 

constituted committee of the Congress if you are confirmed? 

Should I be confirmed, I work cooperative with the Chairs and Members of the 

committees that have jurisdiction over the Department's activities, and comply with the 

requests for documents, communications, or other agency materials from those 

committees, in a manner consistent with applicable law. 

VI. Assistance 

38. Are these answers your own? Have you consulted with DHS, or any other interested parties? 

If so, please indicate which entities. 

I have written and approved all edits to the responses in this document. 

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Minority 

Supplemental Pre-hearing Questionnaire 

For the Nomination of the Honorable Elaine Duke to be 

Deputy Secretary, Department of Homeland Security 

I. Nomination Process and Conflicts of Interest 

I. Please provide a list of any federal contracts you consulted on or were awarded directly, 

since you left your previous position at the Department. Please include the contractor name, 

agency, contract number, contract value and short description of the requirement. 

Contractor Name Agency Contract Number Contract Value Description of the 

Requirement 

Isolations, LLC NOAA Subcontract; Prime Not to Exceed Provide an assessment of 

Contract Number $82,500 NOAA Acquisition & 

Unknown Grants Office (AGO)and 

executive coaching to 

specific AGO personnel 

Elaine Duke & TSA HST05-16-P-ACQ019 $16,000 Analysis of framework 

Associates, LLC and tactical details for 

realignment 

Willcor, Inc DTRA Subcontract to $42,000 Provide an assessment of 

Wlllcor, under the DTRA acquisition and 

contract with Defense contracting processes 

Acquisition University and recommendations 

for improvement 

Willcor, Inc TSA Subcontract to $38,000 Provide an assessment of 

Wlllcor, under the TSA acquisition 

contract with Defense function and 

Acquisition University recommendation for 

improvements 

Willcor, Inc CBP Subcontract to $42,000 Provide a review of the 

Wlllcor/Paul acquisition and 

Schneider under requirements processes 

contract with Defense of CBP, and 

Acquisition University recommendations on 

realignment and 

improvements 

Homeland DHS Various tasks under $7,000- Distinguished Visiting 

Security Studies the FFRDC contract $12,000/year Fellow 

and Analysis from 2011-

(FFRDC) 2016 

Booz Allen DHS Subcontract $21,700 Providing oral debriefing 

Hamilton training and facilitation 

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Paul Schneider USCG Subcontract $21,000 Provide strategy and 

communications plan for 

key major asset plans 

Booz Allen USCG Subcontract $21,000 Provide request for 

Hamilton proposal red team 

review 

2. On what date did you submit your financial disclosure report to the Office of Government 

Ethics? 

I submitted my final financial disclosure report to Office of Government Ethics on 

February 23, 2017. 

II. Background of the Nominee 

3. Do you seek out dissenting views and how do you encourage constructive critical dialogue 

with subordinates? 

I believe that constructive critical dialogue, including dissenting views, are essential for 

good decision making and leadership. As I grew in my career, I learned that the 

complexity and diversity of stakeholder positions and views, as well as the impact and 

scope of decisions also grew. It is critically important to me and DHS, and our decisions 

to have dialogue in the decision-making process to consider all facets and positions 

before the final decision. Those coming from subordinates are often the most valuable. 

They often have the first hand, current, and practical knowledge to providing key input 

to the process. I seek these views by including persons from various levels of the 

organization in the decision meetings and process. Also, I invite feedback on the impact 

of policy so it can be made better in the future, easier to comply with and execute. 

4. If confirmed, what experiences and lessons learned since leaving DHS will you bring to the 

position of Deputy Secretary? 

I was in industry for the first time when I left DHS. That experience gave me better 

insight into industry, bow it operates and what makes it most efficient and effective. 

That insight will help me within DHS. Additionally, I learned a lot more about people 

during my retirement period. I mentored many young persons, I did crafts with aged, 

and I taught civics to minorities going through the naturalization process. This more 

causal, relaxed interaction reminded me of the importance of being a good leader and 

person, and that each person has his or her own dignity. I believe this expanded my 

passion for the homeland security mission to a more complete passion for the others 

that serve, and for those whom they provide services to. 

5. Please give examples of times in your career when you disagreed with your superiors and 

aggressively advocated your position. Give us a few examples of when you were successful 

and when you were not. 

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One example of when I aggressively disagreed with my superiors was the construction 

of the TSA Transportation Security Operations Center. This was build out of a rented 

space. The disagreement was about the mission essential requirements and stated needs 

ofthe end customer in terms of schedule, amount of space, and finishes. The end 

customer was stating needs not tied to mission services and in excess of what normally 

would be considered in a federal space. The way I handled this was to 

approve/disapprove requirements based on sound fiscal principles. If the end customer 

did not agree, the deputy administrator could approve additional requirements. I did 

this in a collegial way, not alienating the customer but explaining the importance ofthe 

checks and balances with these large expenditures. In this case, the predominance of 

decisions stood as I initially decided, and when additional requirements were approved, 

we acted on them immediately and to the satisfaction of the customer. This was a 

partial success because additional controls were put in place, and partially not a success 

because some enhancement I think weren't appropriate were made. 

An example of success was at the change of Administration. Due to a 

miscommunication, there were two individuals that were promised the then political 

Chief Human Capital Officer position. Instead of deciding to select one, the incoming 

leadership decided to create a new Assistant Secretary for Acquisition and Human 

Capital under the Under Secretary for Management (USM); the position I was 

encumbering. I argued against this for two major reasons. First, the individual 

targeted for the position was not qualified. At a critical time in DHS' acquisition, this 

person had no acquisition experience either in government or private sector. Second, of 

the six functions under the USM, separating those two would inhibit the ability to make 

progress in management integration. My arguments convinced the new leadership that 

the position should not be created. 

Another example of success was during the SBINet program. The leadership wanted 

the large prime contractor to be a true systems integrator, including all services, 

construction and material. However, the cost of overhead and profit on certain 

segments of the program were high, and it did not make sense to flow everything, 

including steel purchasing through the prime contractor. Though the separate contract 

model was against the original acquisition strategy, I convinced the leadership it was 

best due to the economics. 

6. Please list and describe unclassified examples of when you made politically difficult choices 

that you thought were in the best interest of the country. 

An example of a difficult choice I made was during the start of the HlNl potential 

pandemic. DHS personnel, mostly CBP and TSA, desired to wear personal protective 

equipment (PPE) to protect them from possible infection. At the time HHS CDC did 

not prescribe PPE for HlNl. I tried to get clear guidance on the medical indication for 

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the use ofPPE for this virus, but the medical evidence was inconclusive. Additionally, 

there was a concern that the wearing of PPE by DHS personnel would inhibit travel 

and drive the United States further into recession. The decision based on the CDC's 

permissive but not deemed medically advisable position made PPE "discretionary" and 

in violation of uniform policy. So, for about a week DHS personnel were prohibited 

from caring PPE until CDC firmed up its position. Only then we could issue PPE to 

DHS personnel. 

7. What would you consider your greatest successes as a leader? 

I believe this nomination process alerted me to one of my greatest successes as a leader. 

That is the positive response I received from career employees across government. Most 

of the congratulatory email I received were from career employees. I believe this is 

evidence that I execute my duties in the best interest of the homeland, include 

employees aggressively, and am politically astute without being overly political. 

Operationally, my greatest success as a leader is getting DHS to move from 

procurement to acquisition. At the start up, DHS had only procurement, which are the 

contracting officers that make the business deals/contracts. There were no program 

managers for the requirements, cost estimates, etc. In fact, only 2% of major contracts 

had a program manager. When I left DHS, over 90% of major programs were run by 

certified program managers, there was a thriving intern program, and DHS was 

building the other acquisition related career fields. 

III. Policy Questions 

The Quadrennial Homeland Security Review and DRS's Missions 

8. In addition to providing federal leadership with respect to homeland security, DHS plays a 

large role in coordinating the activities of other federal, state, local, private sector, and 

international stakeholders, but has faced challenges in this regard. GAO and others have 

reported that the appropriate homeland security roles and responsibilities within and between 

the levels of government and the private sector are evolving and need to be clarified. 

a. What are your plans to strengthen DHS's coordination efforts and partnerships? 

b. What would be your plan for reaching out to other agencies or organizations to 

partner with them on the development and implementation of homeland security 

programs? 

c. What are some specific ways in which DHS could work collaboratively with other 

federal or nonfederal organizations to improve performance outcomes? 

a. If confirmed, I would review the GAO and other reports to gain a complete 

understanding of their recommendations. I would also consult with persons in 

operations that played a leadership role in coordinating federal activities to get input 

from their experiences. From that, I would work with the interagency to clarify the 

roles responsibilities, see if changes to the National Response Framework or other 

planning documents are warranted. I would recommend to the Secretary that he use 

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the Private Sector Office or Homeland Security Advisory Council to determine how 

private sector partnerships could be further developed. 

b. If confirmed I would actively develop relationship with other agencies. In addition to 

any guidance documents, I believe relationships are key to successful interagency 

partnerships. I would actively participate with Homeland Security Council, the OMB 

Management Council or similar established groups. Additionally, I would reach out to 

my peers at other agencies directly. Finally, I would encourage DRS personnel to build 

relations with their peers, so they are established at multiple levels with partner 

agencies. 

c. I believe that DRS could work more collaboratively by establishing the multi-level 

relationships I discussed. Also, planning exercises involved multilevel personnel would 

be helpful in furthering cooperation and understanding each other's role and 

interconnectivity in homeland security. 

9. As you know, DHS has not had re-authorization legislation in some time. Are there particular 

legislative changes or initiatives that are needed to better ensure the Department is operating 

effectively and that may enable you to better accomplish the new administration's 

objectives? If so, please explain to us what those are. 

I believe that a reauthorization would help DRS. The reauthorization would be 

especially helpful if it would further streamline the legislative jurisdiction of the various 

congressional committees over DRS. If confirmed, I would review other proposed 

legislative changes and work with the Committee on any changes. 

Mission 2-Secure and Manage Our Borders 

10. GAO and others have reported on the need for better data and metrics to assess the 

effectiveness of various border security investments, including infrastructure and technology. 

What goals and measures would you propose for assessing efforts and investments to secure 

U.S. borders? 

Securing the border is a critical priority. I believe metrics are necessary for both the 

efforts and results of border security measures. Metrics for the efforts could include 

performance of the acquisition programs against cost, schedule, and performance 

standards. Also, performance against operational and developmental testing plans. 

Metrics for the results are more difficult. I understand that the NDAA has a 

requirement for DRS to develop metrics iu the next quarter. If eoufirmed I would 

review the proposal for efficacy before submission to Congress. 

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II. Secretary Kelly has stated that his definition of a "secure border" means that "we have 

complete operational control of, and have knowledge of, the vast majority of who and what 

enters our country". 

a. What does operational control of the border mean to you? 

b. What metrics would you use to assess whether DHS has operational control of the border? 

a I agree with Secretary Kelly. The border patrol needs situational awareness and the 

tools to apprehend illegal entry for operational effectiveness. It also needs technology 

and other measure to deter illegal entry, and to classify/identify detected movement to 

avoid wasting time pursuing nonthreats. 

b. I understand that the NDAA has a requirement for DHS to develop metrics in the 

next quarter. Ideally metrics would include not only changes in apprehension, the 

result, but those that indicate if the technology is helping border patrol in the areas 

identified above. For example, are there less "false alarms," are intrusions being 

identified more quickly and closer to the point of intrusion. 

12. What additional steps would Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and the Border Patrol 

need to take in order to achieve complete operational control of the border? 

The steps needed to be taken for the border patrol to gain operational control of the 

border would be a priority for me if confirmed. I would ask CBP, informed by border 

patrol, to conduct an analysis of alternatives for additional personnel, technology, and 

infrastructure. This analysis would include resources aud effect on threat, and 

alternatives would comply with existing legislation and executive orders. 

13. Is it possible to end all unauthorized entries into our country? Why or why not? 

a. If you believe it is possible, what manpower and technology capabilities would be 

required to achieve such an outcome? 

b. The 2016 CBP budget is $13.6 billion. How much additional money would CBP need 

in order to accomplish Secretary Kelly's goal of complete operational control of the 

border? 

It may be possible to end all illegal entries to the United States, however I question 

whether that goal is the best for the country. I believe it is important to spend each 

incremental dollar on countering the most significant threat. 

a. To determine if preventing I 00% of illegal entry into the United States is advisable, I 

would recommend a study of the threats and counter threat measures, their 

effectiveness and cost, and make informed decisions about the balance of security 

measures to best address the threats of illegal entry, drug trafficking, other criminal 

activity, and terrorism. 

b. If confirmed I would lead a review of the costs of operational control. 

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14. GAO and others have identified significant challenges in DHS's planning for the deployment 

of technology along our borders. In January 2011, in response to performance, cost, and 

schedule concerns, DHS canceled the former SBinet program. DHS is now moving forward 

with a plan for deploying technology along the Arizona border and other locations across the 

southwest border. However, GAO has identified concerns regarding this plan, including that 

the Department has not documented the analysis justifYing the plan or developed a reliable 

cost estimate for the plan. 

d. Moving forward, what steps do you feel are necessary to ensure that the effectiveness 

of technologies deployed under the new plan merit the substantial investment? 

e. What do you believe to be the proper mix of personnel, technology, and physical 

infrastructure for securing our borders? 

d. I believe that not continuing forward with the SBinet program after the first 

increment of coverage is evidence that the acquisition system was working. That 

segment of technology is still operational today, but the decision was made to not 

continue that solution in additional segments. The current program is structured to 

allow incremental design and installation of future technology based on the specifics of 

each segment. I believe it is important to have accurate cost estimates and performance 

metrics, and if confirmed will have strong acquisition oversight through the Chief 

Acquisition Officer to make sure this is done before funds arc obligated. 

c. I cannot predict that at this time, however if confirmed the acquisition reviews would 

analyze the options and determine the optimum mix. 

Mission 3-Enforce and Administer Our Immigration Laws 

15. Section 287(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act gives ICE the authority to train and 

delegate immigration enforcement to state and local law enforcement officers in local 

jurisdictions. The 287(g) program is meant to supplement ICE's limited resources and 

improve the agency's ability to identify unauthorized criminal aliens. More than 1,600 

officers have been trained and certified to participate in the program via 32 active 

Memoranda of Agreement in 16 states. The program is currently restricted to a jail model 

after previous task force models were discontinued. 

a. What was your view of the 287(g) program during your prior tenure at the 

Department? 

b. Given concerns expressed in a 2009 GAO report, how might the Department ensure 

that 287(g) agreements serve the Department's enforcement priorities, and that the 

Department provides adequate oversight of the program? 

a. My involvement with the 287(g) program in my prior tenure at DHS was indirect. 

However, I believe that partnership between federal and state & local law 

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enforcement benefit the country in terms of effectiveness of law enforcement and 

efficiency in carrying out law enforcement. 

b. If confirmed, I will assess the progress made against the recommendations in the 

2009 GAO report to make sure they have been implemented to serve the 

Department's priorities and have the appropriate oversight. 

16. On January 27,2017, President Trump issued an Executive Order restricting travelers from 

Libya, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, and Somalia from entering the United States. 

a. Do you believe that DHS's mission to protect the homeland is aided by barring legal 

visa-holders and U.S. permanent residents traveling from these countries from 

entering the United States? 

b. Are there aspects of how DHS implemented the Executive Order that could be 

improved upon? If so, which ones? 

c. Judges in several jurisdictions have issued stays on the Executive Order. Do you 

believe DHS should comply with such stays? If so, would you commit to doing 

whatever you can, if confirmed, to ensure that the agency complies with such stays in 

the future? 

a. I do not know the underlying threat analysis that drove the Executive Order (EO) so 

I am unable to comment on the potential effectiveness ofthe EO. 

b. My understanding is that planning will be improved iu the future. I believe that 

better planning and communication improves the implementation of any EO or other 

such initiative. Key stakeholders that should be involved in that planning would 

include, but not limited to, the Secretary and me, affected components, Civiis Rights 

and Civil Liberties, Public Affairs and Congressional Affairs. 

c. I believe DHS should comply with the law and legal court orders. If confirmed, I 

commit to doing whatever I can to ensure DHS honors stays. 

17. Secretary Kelly recently testified that DHS may soon require that visa applicants submit 

information about their social media accounts and their passwords to the federal government. 

Do you think such a policy would be an effective way to screen applicants? Do you have any 

concerns about this policy? 

I am not familiar with this policy. Ifl am confirmed, I would consult with the Privacy 

Officer and others regarding this potential policy. 

18. USCIS's provision of benefits and services has long been plagued by backlogs, delays, and 

lost paperwork. Furthermore, the process is vulnerable to fraud, waste, and abuse. To 

address these challenges and improve its performance, users has developed a plan for 

transforming its operations from a form-oriented, paper-based process to a customeroriented, electronic process. However, GAO and the Inspector General have identified 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 20 
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challenges with USCIS 's management of its transformation program. Should you be 

confirmed, what actions would you take to address these issues? 

If confirmed, I would review the acquisition program with the Chief Acquisition Officer 

to make sure it will meet cost, schedule and performance plans going forward. I 

consider this a critical program to homeland secnrity and wonld focus regnlar 

leadership attention on it. 

Mission 4-Safeguard and Secure Cyberspace 

19. Former Secretary Johnson and former Under Secretary Spaulding attempted to reorganize the 

National Protection and Programs Directorate (NPPD) at the Department in an effort to better 

align the organization with its mission to work with industry and help protect critical 

infrastructure. There was also an attempt to rename the organization to reflect its growing 

cybersecurity mission. What do you think should be the Department's cybersecurity 

priorities? What do you think should be done organizationally to better equip our country to 

address cyber security threats? 

As Secretary Kelly noted in his confirmation hearing and should I be confirmed, we will 

take a look at this issue. DHS's cyber mission must succeed, for example I know that 

two ofDHS's priorities are .gov and continuous diagnostic and monitoring. If 

confirmed, I would gain a full understanding ofDHS's current cyber missions and what 

DHS might do to support them. 

20. DHS spends about $1.6 billion each year on cybersecurity-related programs. NPPD and 

Einstein represent about $1.2 billion of that total. Do you believe that these two programs are 

delivering results that warrant the amount being spent on them? If not, how can they be 

improved? 

If confirmed, I will receive a classified briefing of the effectiveness of EINSTEIN and 

any other cyber programs, and plans for further enhancements so I can develop a 

position on those programs. 

21. Several cybersecurity laws were enacted in the !13th and !14th Congresses. They included 

many provisions involving DHS, relating to information sharing, the protection of federal 

information systems, and the federal cybersecurity workforce. Do you think the current DHS 

legislative authorities and programs are adequate for ensuring the cybersecurity of U.S. 

critical infrastructure? If not, what changes do you think are needed? 

If confirmed, I will review the legislative authorities and programs for adequacy and 

then can more fully answer your question. I understand that the current cyber 

authorities will be very helpful in building the DHS cyber federal workforce, clarifying 

roles and responsibilities among civilian agencies, and facilitating cyber threat 

information sharing. 

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22. What in your experience gives you the knowledge of how cyber threats differ from other 

threats that DHS is tasked with countering? What is your understanding of the range of cyber 

threat actors? 

My understanding is the range of cyber threat actors is that they are wide ranging, 

from those whose only intent is to breach a system for the challenge, to those with the 

intent to commit fraud, weaken our homeland, and collect intelligence. Cyber threats 

differ from other threats in several ways, including (1) there isn't a physical 

component, so the person(s) behind the threat is often unknown or masked. (2) The 

threat changes and evolves rapidly, and countermeasures must adapt as rapidly. (3) 

Now the threat is not only terrorism, but intelligence, fraud/financial, and other 

motives. (4) At this moment jointness in federal agencies and with the critical 

infrastructure sectors is even more important with a cyber threat. 

23. Please explain your understanding of how DHS interfaces with the Department of Justice in 

responding to significant cyber incidents. What types of support do the departments offer one 

another, and how are the roles delineated? What plans do you have to support interagency 

response to cyber incidents? 

My understanding is there are multiple layers of relationships regarding cyber 

incidents between the departments. I know there is joint monitoring and detection, 

and that DHS supports DoJ's criminal cases. If confirmed, I would Jearn more about 

these delineated roles. That knowledge, along with the partnerships I would build with 

DoJ would further the shared mission. I know that joint operations are most critical 

for cyber deterrence and detection, and fully support this and other interagency 

planning and operations. 

24. DHS faces no greater or more pressing challenge than cyber security. In recent years there 

has been legislation and other efforts to strengthen and clarify DHS's role and authorities in 

cyber security and to increase the sharing of cyber threat information with state and local 

governments and the private sector. The current administration's effort to reorganize and 

rename NPPD has, in part, been undertaken to strengthen and clarify the department's role in 

cybcrsecurity. 

a. If confirmed, what are your immediate and longer term plans for DHS's roles, 

authorities, and efforts in the cyber security area? What are the primary challenges 

DHS faces in this area? 

b. What is your vision for DHS's role in this area, compared to other federal partners, 

such as the FBI, NIST, OPM, and DOD? 

c. How will you address the challenge of recruiting and retaining the necessary 

personnel with critical cyber security expertise? 

a. My plan, if confirmed, is to get a complete understanding of the interagency roles and 

responsibilities and ensure that DHS has the appropriate authority for its role. 

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b. My understanding is that DHS's role is to protect .gov and work the critical 

infrastructure sectors. I did not have cyber in my portfolio during my last tenure at 

DHS, therefore I would need to Jearn more about current legislation, policy, and roles 

and responsibility of interagency partners. If confirmed, I will do this. 

c. The new cyber hiring authority will help address recruiting the necessary personnel. 

In addition to this, if confirmed, I would look to expand the recruiting to new applicant 

pools in different regions, universities, and other potential new sources for talented 

applicants. For retention, I would look first to expanding career paths and improving 

morale in NPPD. 

Mission 5--Strengthen National Preparedness and Resilience 

25. Over the last decade, the number of federal disaster declarations and overall federal disaster 

spending has increased significantly. While the reasons for this may vary, it is clear that there 

is an increased expectation by state and local governments, and citizens, that the federal 

government will fund much of the response and long term recovery to major disasters. This 

increases the federal government's future fiscal exposure to disasters and extreme weather. 

a. What is your position on the role of the federal government in this area and what 

steps would you take to decrease the federal government's future fiscal exposure. 

b. What is your position on FEMA's proposal to change the process for declaring 

federal disasters-more specifically-the proposed establishment of a state disaster 

deductible? 

c. What role do you think mitigation and resilience building will have in addressing 

federal disaster costs issues? 

a. My position is that we should look to preparedness and resiliency as a way to 

decrease the government's fiscal exposure. Additionally, I would look to the Office of 

Partnership and Engagement to work with state and local governments to see how the 

exposure at every level could be reduced. I believe that response and recovery are an 

ecosystem and we cannot look at one segment without understanding the effects on the 

system. 

b. I am not familiar with the proposal to have a state disaster deductible. I believe that 

mitigation, preparedness and resiliency can reduce the cost of response and recovery 

for both the federal government and state and local governments, and that all three 

must consider appropriate changes to the current process to address deficit, economic 

recovery and other national concerns. 

c. As stated in b., I think they have a strong role. If we do not address mitigation 

preparedness, and resiliency we will not reduce the cost of response and recovery, we 

will just shift it between parties. That is not enough, in my opinion. 

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26. Since September 11, 2001, DHS has provided over $40 billion in preparedness grants to 

state, local, and tribal governments to strengthen their preparedness to terrorism and other 

hazards. Some have raised questions about how these grants are allocated, the impact they 

have on preparedness, and the diftlculty in measuring the effect of the grants on capabilities. 

a. What is your position on the effectiveness of these grant programs and what are the 

administration's plans for their future, both in terms of funding levels and use? 

I believe effectiveness measures should be part ofthe grant program, both in grants 

guidance and in grant proposals. I think it is important to ensure our grants funds are 

going toward the public purpose with the largest positive effect on preparedness. I 

think there may be room for cooperative agreements in the current preparedness 

program. I do not know the administration's plans for the future, but would examine 

this if confirmed. 

27. As you know, FEMA has one of the oldest/most outdated financial management systems in 

DHS and is currently undergoing a grants management modernization effort to better 

integrate numerous systems. Given the complexity of these efforts and the amount of 

funding that FEMA manages and provides through grants, how do you plan to ensure these 

efforts are successful? What challenges do you anticipate, and are current timetables and 

estimates reasonable? 

Grants modernization is critically important for FEMA. It is needed not only to make 

the grants program more effective in allocation and controls. It is also necessary to 

make it more efficient be reducing the number of grants systems used. FEMA cannot 

afford to use its funds to operate and maintain multiple antiquated systems. Conducting 

grants modernization at the same time as financial systems modernization adds 

additional complexity. It is necessary to conduct not only change management for the 

individual systems, but understand the interfaces and manage across the programs. I 

am not familiar with the current timetables and estimates, however if confirmed I will 

review each program with the Chief Acquisition Officer, and keep these programs on 

the major programs list for continued review. 

28. What steps are you planning to address the long term solvency issues and other challenges 

with the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP)? 

The solvency of the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) has been an issue for 

years. Pending legislation may correct some of the issues of the program. As it 

currently exists it cannot become solvent. As a major item on the GAO high risk list, if 

I am confirmed I would require a corrective action plan and quarterly updates, as with 

the other high risk list items 

Management, Accountability, and Oversight 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 24 
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29. In many areas, the responsibilities ofDHS intersect with those of other cabinet departments. 

For example, the Public Health Emergency Medical Countermeasures Enterprise (PHEMCE) 

coordinates five cabinet Departments, including DHS, to authorize and purchase medical 

countermeasures for chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear (CBRN) threats. 

a. How do you view the role of DHS vis-a-vis other cabinet departments, and what 

lessons from your previous work at DHS and other agencies help you establish or 

maintain effective working relationships with other Departments? 

b. Do you believe any current authorities or interagency organizational structures should 

be modified to ensure DHS is able to effectively coordinate interagency operations, 

such as catastrophic disaster response? 

a. Several of the DHS responsibilities are outlined in Presidential directives. DHS often 

has a coordination role for multi-agency programs and countermeasures. In specific 

disaster response scenarios under the Emergency Response Plan, other agencies may 

have the lead in response. However, DHS has overall lead in coordination of response, 

whether an act of nature or terrorism. Therefore, I believe that DHS should be at the 

forefront of building relations, conducting exercises, and ensuring planning is 

appropriate for all types of threats, including CBRN. If confirmed, I would exercise 

this leadership through collaboration and planning. 

b. I know of no additional authorities or structure that need to be modified, however if 

confirmed I will further research this question. 

30. What experience do you have in working across departments and components at DHS? 

Provide examples of ways in which you were successful in coordinating a multi-agency or 

multi-component approach to an issue. 

When Katrina hit the Louisiana, the response needed was tremendous. FEMA did not 

have enough contracting officers to support the response and recover efforts. I worked 

through the Chief Procurement Officer Council and developed a contingency 

contracting officer corps to aid in procurements necessary for recovery. When Under 

Secretary for Management for DHS, I led the review board for resource decisions. This 

was the Department's first effort to look at budgets across domains and mission sets, 

instead of just through component stovepipes. With PA&E analysts, components 

participated iu resource planning and scenarios for evaluation by senior departmental 

leadership. 

31. GAO and the DHS Inspector General play important roles in assisting Congress in 

overseeing DHS operations and management. As Deputy Secretary, how will you work to 

ensure that GAO and the Inspector General have the access they need to carry out their 

evaluation, audit, and investigation functions? 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 25 
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If confirmed, I would work with GAO and the IG proactively to have strong 

relationships with these oversight bodies. I will have regular meetings to discuss trends, 

current reports, priorities and plans for the year(s). 

32. The Office of Personnel Management's 2016 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey data 

showed that DHS has made modest progress in improving morale, but many challenges 

remain. What should the role ofDHS management be in improving morale? What should the 

role of the components be? 

Every person ofDHS has a role in improving the morale. DHS HQ and component 

leadership have a significant role. They must set of tone of understanding and valuing 

employee work, and establish a culture of inclusiveness and communication. DHS 

supervisors and managers must set performance standards and hold all employees to 

clear standards, provide training and career opportunities. Employees must take 

initiative to improve their skills, education, and knowledge. Effective and clear 

communication between supervisors and employees can improve performance and 

morale. There must be a respect for diversity and tolerance- expect for poor 

performance- by all employees from top to bottom. 

33. Under the Government Performance and Results Act, federal agencies are required to 

establish long-term, strategic goals and related annual performance goals and report on actual 

performance achieved. GAO and others have reported that a number ofDHS programs lack 

outcome goals and measures, which may hinder the Department's ability to effectively assess 

the results of program efforts or fully assess whether the department is using resources 

effectively and efficiently, given various agency priorities for resources. 

a. Do you believe that DHS programs should have outcome goals and measures? 

b. How would you demonstrate your commitment to establishing and achieving 

departmental performance goals? 

c. How would you use performance information to improve performance results? 

a. I do believe that DHS programs should have outcome goals and measures. 

However, when the outcomes are complex, I also believe that interim measures provide 

visibility and allow leadership to monitor progress toward the outcome measure. 

b. Under Unity of Effort, if confirmed I will make sure goals are developed during the 

requirements process and also during the resource allocation process. 

c. If confirmed I would use performance information to determine if the current 

solution set is meeting the mission performance requirements. If not, I would order a 

new set of alternatives analysis to determine how to best alter resource allocation and 

programs to better deliver performance. 

DHS Consolidation and Unification 

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34. For many years, DHS leadership has stated that having a unified headquarters in one location 

is vital to operations and the effective function of a cohesive DHS. The St. Elizabeths 

campus was envisioned as the headquarters for DHS, but the pace of renovations has slowed 

due to reductions in available funding. 

a. In your view, how important is the consolidation ofDHS headquarters to 

improving operations and efficiency? 

b. Secretary Kelly has indicated that he is open to a unified headquarters. If 

confirmed, how will you continue efforts to consolidate DHS headquarters 

operations and management in the interim? 

a. A functional DHS headquarters is important to improving operations and efficiency. 

The current rental footprint for DHS is ineffective in terms of commuting times for 

meetings and communications. It is also very inefficient. 

b. If confirmed, I would work with the Chief Readiness Support Officer on the St 

Elizabeths' enhanced plan for a unified headquarters, as well as the field efficiencies 

program. 

Acquisitions 

35. When it was established in 2003, DHS created a Joint Requirements Council (JRC) to review 

and prioritize requirements. The JRC became inactive by 2006. In 2014, the DHS Secretary 

directed the creation of a joint requirements process, with the JRC to be composed and 

chaired by the Department's components. GAO recently reported (GA0-17-171) that the 

JRC's structure and management are consistent with key organizational transformation 

practices and that the JRC has the potential to help DHS reduce duplication and make costeffective investments. 

a. What is your assessment of the JRC? 

b. If confirmed, would you continue the work of the JRC? If yes, would you 

pursue efforts to codify it? 

a. The original JRC became inactive because of the immaturity ofthe Department. At 

that time, the leader Admiral Thad Allen was called to run Katrina response and 

recovery. The data necessary to run an effective JRC did not exist. Since then, other 

areas of the department have matured in their data and analysis, and made the JRC 

able to deliver results. I do not have a firsthand assessment of the current JRC. I do 

believe that to be effective it must balance rigor and timeliness, and be cognizant of 

current operations and urgencies in the processes. 

b. If confirmed, I would continue the work of the JRC and pursue efforts to make it a 

permanent part ofDHS. 

36. There is a lack of comprehensive data on the true cost of contractors and agencies do not 

conduct cost-benefit analyses to better understand whether services should be performed by 

federal employees or contractors. DHS previously adopted the Balanced Workforce Strategy 

but the effort is incomplete without data. How do you believe DHS can achieve a balanced 

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workforce? What efforts would you take to better understand the true cost of contracting for 

services? 

I believe DHS can achieve a balanced workforce by assessing the critical or core 

functions in each mission area and ensure it has the right number offederal employees 

to retain the intellectual capital necessary to execute those core/critical functions. This 

is of paramount importance when considering a balanced workforce. Regarding 

understanding the cost of contracting, there was a cost model in the Office of 

Management and Budget Circular A-76 for this purpose, but that circular has been 

suspended. If confirmed, I would recommend and work with OMB to institute a new 

federal model. 

37. On January 31,2017, President Trump issued a hiring freeze for all federal workers. In the 

past, you have emphasized the importance of hiring flexibilities for DHS. In previous 

Congressional testimony you have also acknowledged issues surrounding the use of 

contractors for inherently governmental work and managing the risk of relying too much on 

contractors. 

a. Will you commit to work to discontinue contracting for inherently governmental 

work? How would you do so in light of the hiring freeze for federal workers? 

b. Will you also commit to ensuring that contractor oversight and the evaluation of 

contractors' job performance is conducted by federal employees, and not by other 

contractors? 

a. If confirmed, I will not hire contractors for inherently governmental work. Also, 

during the hiring freeze controls will be in place from the Chief Procurement Officer to 

comply fully with the terms of the hiring freeze regarding replacing federal employees 

with contractors. 

b. If confirmed, I commit that I will ensure that contractor performance is evaluated by 

a federal employee serving as the contracting officer, or contracting officer's (technical) 

representative. 

38. Shortages in the acquisition workforce continue to be a challenge in the federal government. 

GAO found staffing shortfalls in 21 of the 22 DHS acquisition programs it reviewed; funding 

gaps of 10% or more in half ofthose programs, and requirements changes across all 22 

programs. Do you plan to address the issue of acquisition workforce staffing and retention at 

DHS and if so, how? 

If I am confirmed, Yes. I will address the issue of acquisition workforce. Some actions 

I would take include reviewing the personnel on major acquisition programs to ensure 

there are enough qualified personnel in the right career field to run the acquisition 

programs. Another would be to institute an acquisition cadre for career growth, 

recurring training, and retention. 

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39. During your time at DHS you established a test and evaluation program for the major 

acquisition programs in light of the issues with SBlnet and others. GAO has reported 

recently that there are still issues with including test and evaluation at the beginning of a 

procurement to mitigate financial risks of purchasing systems that will not work in the field. 

a. Do you plan to include internal DHS testing, evaluation, and standards resources 

earlier in the acquisition process to mitigate risk in purchasing technologies that don't 

fit the needs of the Department? If so, how? 

b. Do you support expanding the use of standards and funding the creation of standards 

in conjunction with the acquisition process to ensure DHS is making sound 

acquisition decisions? 

c. From your previous experience at DHS, what lessons have you learned from major 

acquisition programs that were not successful like SBINet? 

d. Will you commit to reviewing all major acquisition programs for feasibility, and 

commit to revising programs that have not followed proper acquisition guidelines and 

cancel programs that will not meet the needs of the Department? 

a. If I am confirmed, I plan on further strengthening the developmental and operational 

test and evaluation programs at DHS. Using both types of testing will help insure that 

not only do the systems meet the contract requirements, but that they will perform 

operationally in the field. This requires end user participation in both setting the test 

and evaluation master plan and conducting the testing. 

b. If confirmed, I will support expanding the use of standards where warranted, for 

instance for IT systems, first responder equipment, and joint use equipment. I will 

work to have the optimal types and numbers of standards for efficiencies and 

effectiveness. 

c. I have learned that (1) the government must always maintain control of its program 

and resources. Therefore, unless there are sufficient government personnel to manage 

the contract, it should not be awarded. (2) Modular development and deployment is 

often most successful; the big bang approach is very complex and high risk. (3) IT 

systems must be developed with AGILE or some type of method to make sure the 

system is deployed before it is obsolete 

d. Ifl am confirmed, I commit to reviewing all major acquisition programs and work to 

cancel programs that will not meet the needs of the Department and/or are not feasible. 

40. GAO has done a number of reports, most recently in March of2016 (GA0-16-338SP) on 

the budget shortfalls that are projected at DHS in regards to its major programs. 

a. If confirmed, what would you do to mitigate the budget shortfalls for major DHS 

programs? 

b. What criteria would you use to prioritize which programs continue and which 

programs will need to be cancelled due to lack of sustainable funding? 

c. Will you commit to requiring that DHS and its components will work to accurately 

forecast acquisition and sustainment costs so that this issue does not continue into the 

future? 

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a. If confirmed, I would work to get the resources in the DHS budget that are truly 

necessary to perform its missions. I would also work to develop innovate financing 

methods and acquisition strategies to minimize the shortfall. I would also look at 

programs that have continually breached cost, schedule and performance parameters; 

and duplicative programs. 

b. The first priority would have to be those that fulfill a critical capability gap. If 

confirmed I would review the programs for mission impact, and obtain an assessment 

from the Chief Acquisition Officer ofthe funding risk for both acquisition and 

sustainment. 

c. Yes, if confirmed I commit to requiring that DHS and its components work to 

accurately forecast acquisition and sustainment costs. 

Transportation Security and Coast Guard 

41. Within TSA operations, aviation security gets a lot of funding and attention, while surface 

security-including passenger rail and mass transit-receives about 3 percent ofTSA's 

budget. Yet the nation's surface transportation system is inherently vulnerable to attack, 

given its very design. Do you plan to shift the level of attention and resources between 

aviation and surface transportation security? 

If confirmed, I would look at the threat/resource alignment and work toward aligning 

resources to the highest threat. 

42. What are the Coast Guard's capability and resource gaps that concern you most, and what 

steps would you take to address them? 

If confirmed I would get a full assessment of the Coast Guard's current capability gaps. 

Initially, I know there is a need for ice breaking cutter and the Offshore Patrol Cutter 

for the mission. 

43. TSA has faced long-standing challenges in balancing effective and efficient screening. 

a. What changes would you make at TSA, and what's your position on the use of private 

screeners through the Screening Partnership Program? 

b. If confirmed, would you support TSA 's efforts to expand the PreCheck program? 

a. If confirmed, I would assess the current USCG's most pressing priorities for 

capability and resource gaps. This would include if it is making progress on 

modernizing its aging air and ship assets. Also, its personnel including acquisition 

personnel and its progress in the Blueprint for Acquisition Reform. 

b. If confirmed, I would support TSA's efforts to expand the PreCheck program. 

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44. Regarding maritime security, do you plan to implement the 9/11 Act requirement for 100 

percent scanning of all cargo container shipments or will you continue to support CBP's 

current approach of identifYing and examining high-risk shipments? 

I understand there is currently a waiver in place that will expire soon. If confirmed, I 

would make it a priority to assess the 9/11 Act requirement and current risk profile for 

cargo before any further waiver decision. 

Critical Infrastructure Protection 

45. One ofDHS's most challenging missions is protecting physical and cyber critical 

infrastructure across 16 individual and unique sectors. In most of these sectors, DHS has little 

or no operational or regulatory authority and must rely on partnerships with other federal 

agencies, state and local governments, and private infrastructure owners and operators. 

a. How, if at all, would you recommend DHS change its approach under your to critical 

infrastructure protection? 

b. What steps do you think are necessary to strengthen communication and two-way 

information sharing with private sector owners and operators, while also safeguarding 

sensitive information? 

c. Which sectors (i.e. electricity, banking, chemical, etc.) do you think are most critical 

to protect and how should DHS prioritize among them? 

d. How will DHS assess risks to various sectors and prioritize its efforts to those areas of 

greatest risk? 

a. If confirmed I would fully examine DHS's approach to critical infrastructure 

protection. It is important that roles and responsibilities be clarified, and that risks are 

prioritized. 

b. If there is a trusted relationship, there can be communications that provide industry 

what it needs to know in an unclassified way. That is generally what needs to be done, 

overall risks, etc. without divulging the intelligence stream that generated the 

conclusion. 

c. It is difficult to say that one sector is more important than another. I think it is 

important to understand how solutions/issues from one sector can be leveraged to other 

sectors. Issues common and high threat to multiple sectors may be a priority, rather 

than saying one sector is a priority. 

d. Change of occurrence (threat level) and consequence (damage level) are two factors 

in assessing risk and could be part of the assessment of critical infrastructure. 

Information Sharing 

46. DHS plays a central role in the multi-Department effort to share terrorism-related 

information both within the federal government as well as state, local, tribal, private sector, 

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and even international partners. A recent report by the House Homeland Security Committee 

found that while DHS has made important progress, the Department's intelligence enterprise 

remains scattered and all too often uncoordinated across and sometimes within its various 

components. 

a. What plans do you have to improve coordination and coherence across DHS's various 

intelligence offices and programs? 

b. How do you envision DHS working with its partners in the federal intelligence 

community to ensure that terrorist-related information is both appropriately shared 

and protected from unwarranted disclosure? 

a. Unity of Effort should encompass not only operations on the ground, but those in 

support of operations. If confirmed, I would support functional integration across the 

intelligence offices, like the integration with the Department's chiefs. 

b. I would envision DHS using its role inDIA? to further the partnerships. Secure 

network systems are available for information sharing, however stronger relationships 

are needed to understand the commonalities and differences in the various agencies' 

specific mission. 

CBRNE Efforts 

47. The outgoing administration proposed several major organizational changes to the 

Department in recent years. For example, it proposed consolidating several components into 

one chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosives (CBRNE) Office and also 

renaming and reorganizing the National Protection and Programs Directorate (NPPD). Both 

proposals were not advanced in Congress. If confirmed, do you plan to pursue these 

reorganizations or any other major organizational changes to the structure ofDHS? Please 

explain. 

I have no plans for reorganization entering the confirmation process. If confirmed, I 

will review both proposed organizational changes. I do understand them and with 

limited information they appear to have merit. 

48. GAO and others, such as the Blue Ribbon Study Panel on Biodefense-led by Tom Ridge 

and Joe Lieberman-have pointed to the largely fragmented and uncoordinated federal effort 

and approach to protecting the country from biological threats. While DHS has 

responsibilities for the country's biodcfense, it has only a small piece of the federal staff, 

resources, and efforts compared to HHS and USDA, among others. Further, questions have 

been raised about the effectiveness of DHS's bio programs such as Biowatch and the 

National Biosurveillance Integration Center. 

a. What is your positon on the future role ofDHS in biodefense, versus other federal 

agencies? 

b. In your view, what steps are needed to ensure that the country is better prepared for 

naturally occurring or manmade biological threats? 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 32 
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c. What is your view on the needs for a next generation bio detection system to replace 

Biowatch? 

a. Currently, DHS has been assigned the biodefense role, so if confirmed I would expect 

DHS to continue performing its assigned role until relieved. I believe it would be 

prudent to look at the roles of the other agencies to determine if there is full coverage of 

these threats without unnecessary duplication, and if the roles are understood and 

properly placed. 

b. Preparedness for biological threats has not been addressed as well as preparedness 

for natural disasters. I think that preparedness should be expanded to "all threats" so 

that the people of our country can do their part, along with the local, state and federal 

government. Additionally, more exercises and pandemic planning in COOP and COG 

would be useful. 

c. My understanding is that Biowatch is not meeting current needs. If confirmed I 

would review the program to determine if a next generation system is needed or some 

other solution. 

Countering Violent Extremism 

49. DHS has recently stepped up efforts to counter violent extremism (CVE) within the United 

States through its Office of Community Partnerships. For example, DHS and DOJ co-chair a 

federal task force designed to bolster federal efforts to help local communities identifY 

people at risk of radicalization and ensure those individuals do not undertake terrorist acts. 

DHS leadership has spoken of its CVE program as one of its main pillars in the Department's 

broader effort to protect the homeland against terrorism. 

a. To what extent do you foresee the Department changing its approach to CVE? 

b. What additional steps or resources, if any, are needed to bring greater cohesion and 

clarity to DHS's work in this realm? 

a I believe effective counterterrorism programs, including CVE, are critical to our nation, 

and joint task forces are a good tool for this effort. I see CVE as a deterrence/prevention 

measure, and DHS does deterrence/prevention across its mission set. 

b. I do not know of planned changes to DRS's approach to CVE, nor if additional 

resources are needed. If confirmed, CVE would be a top priority. 

Secret Service 

50. Recently, the U.S. Secret Service (USSS) has suffered a number of scandals and security 

breaches, most notably when an intruder was able to jump the fence and enter the White 

House unimpeded. While USSS has undertaken a series of reforms, there is still clearly a 

Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Page 33 
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great deal of work ahead before it can regain the same level of trust and esteem it used to 

enjoy. 

a. What, in your opinion, are the main problems and challenges at the Secret Service? 

b. What should be done to address those problems and challenges? How long will it take 

to repair the damage from recent years? 

c. Some have argued that the Secret Service is over-burdened by its dual mission: 

protecting the President and others while also investigating financial crimes. Do you 

believe the Secret Service would benefit from having a single focus on its protective 

mission? If so, when and how would you propose making that change? 

a.and b. I am not familiar with the real, current problems in the Secret Service. If 

confirmed I would review the GAO and IG reports, along with the Service leadership to 

help determine how to best move the organization forward and repair any remaining 

damage to its reputation. 

c. I have not heard the pros/cons of that argument. I do know that the Secret Service 

has performed exemplary for years, and have no reason currently to believe it cannot 

continue that in the future. 

Science and Technology Directorate 

51. Since the creation ofDHS, the S&T directorate has undergone various transformations and 

has often struggled in defining its role within the Department and its responsibilities in 

working with operational components. What is your view on the appropriate and most 

effective role of S&T and what steps are needed to ensure that they achieve it? 

S&T must provide products and services that enable the operating components to 

perform their missions most effectively. It must provide the scientific and technical 

expertise to deliver new, innovative products and services to DHS, using industry and 

research and development. 

52. How should investments in R&D be prioritized within S&T and among operational 

components? 

The largest, most critical capability gaps in DHS mission operations should drive 

investment priorities for both R&D and resources. 

53. S&T also plays a role in the development of threat assessments that can lead to authorization 

of the procurement of countermeasures under the BioShield program. If confirmed, will you 

commit to taking a strategic look at how the threat assessment process works and whether 

there is appropriate oversight of the assessments? 

I commit, if confirmed, to taking a strategic look at the Bio Shield program, especially 

its threat assessment process. 

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54. In your view, is DHS effectively leveraging other federal R&D resources and facilities, such 

as the DOE national laboratories, DOD offices. and other federally funded research and 

development centers (FFRDC)? 

I believe leveraging other R&D resources, DoD R&D, DOE, and DHS' FFRDC is very 

important. If confirmed I will dete3rmine if they are being appropriated leveraged. 

V. Relations with Congress 

55. Do you agree without reservation to reply to any reasonable request for inf{)rmation from the 

Ranking Member of any duly constituted committee of the Congress. if confirmed? 

If confirmed, I do without reservation. 

56. Do you agree without reservation to comply fully, completely. and promptly to any request 

for documents, communications, or any other agency material or inlormation (i·om any duly 

constituted committee of the Congress, including requests from the Minority, if you are 

confirmed'? 

If confirmed I will work cooperatively with the Chairs and Members of committees that 

have jurisdiction over tbe Department's activities, and comply with requests for 

documents, communications, or other agency materials from those committees, in a 

manner consistent with applicable law." 

VI. Assistance 

57. Are these answers your own'' Have you consulted with DHS, or any other interested parties? 

If so, please indicate which entities, 

Tbe answers are my own. I reviewed and accepted edits from DHS personnel, without 

changing the substance of my answers. 

L Elaine C. Duke , hereby state that I have read the foregoing Pre-Hearing 

Questionnaire and the supplement and that the infonnation provided therein is, to the best of my 

knowledge, current, accurate. and complete. 

2017 

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Post-Hearing Questions for the Record 

Submitted to Elaine Duke 

From Senator Rand Paul 

Nomination Hearing 

For Elaine Duke 

To be Deputy Secretary 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Wednesday, March 8, 2017 

I. In response to question 9 of the Pre-hearing questionnaire you completed tor the 

Committee ("If confirmed, what are your highest priority items you intend to focus 

on'i"), you mentioned "TSA reinvention." 

Please elaborate on this vision for reinventing TSA, including what you perceive to be 

the agency • s most pressing and persistent challenges. 

TSA has a challenging mission set, and the threats facing the aviation sector evolve 

quickly. One of the most pressing and persistent challenges is having a system of 

technology, process, and trained people to best counter that evolving threat. The pace 

of federal acquisition, testing, and the cost of technology arc challenges to staying 

current. DHS must develop responsible but nimble ways to meet these threats. If 

confirmed, I will work with each and every component of the Department, including 

TSA, to confront such challenges. 

2. In response to question 29 of the Pre-hearing questionnaire you completed for the 

Committee ("What steps do you believe DHS can take to ensure federal funds 

expended by the agency are free from duplication and waste?"), you mentioned " ... a 

strong "grass roots" program that allows its employees to identify duplication and 

waste, and a culture that makes leaders accountable tor eliminating duplication and 

waste and that includes clearing the way for employees to do the right thing." 

In the last several sessions of Congress, I have introduced the Bonuses tor CostCutters Act (S. 13 78 in the 1141

h Congress). The Bonuses for Cost-Cutters Act seeks 

to establish a cash award program to incentivize federal employees to identify 

wasteful spending in their agencies. Do you believe that a program such as would be 

created by the Bonuses for Cost-Cutters Act could help create "a culture that makes 

leaders accountable for eliminating duplication and waste" at DHS? 

I believe that cash awards for employees who identify wasteful spending could be part of 

a program to eliminate duplication and waste. There are many federal employees with 

good ideas that simply need an avenue of communication. Leadership that welcomes 

ideas, and expects innovative ideas as employees grow, will not only help with 
96 

eliminating duplication and waste, but will also improve morale. In addition, non-cash 

awards such as leadership recognition and time off awards, would be beneficial to this 

culture. If confirmed, I would be happy to encourage and empower such creativity at 

DHS. 
97 

Post-Hearing Questions for the Record 

Submitted to The Honorable Elaine C. Duke 

From Senator Steve Daines 

Nomination Hearing 

For Elaine C. Duke 

To be Deputy Secretary 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Wednesday, March 8, 2017 

Thank you for coming before the committee today to share your vision for the Department 

of Homeland Security and for taking the time to meet with me in February to discuss the 

issues that face Montana and our country as a whole. Your years of experience at DHS 

under President Obama and President Bush are a testament to your dedication to this 

country and will serve as an important tool as you move forward in your new role. As a new 

Member of the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee, I look forward to 

working with you to protect all American's security and safety, while preserving our privacy 

and civil liberties. 

I. Having spent 28 years in the private sector, l 0 of them with a global cloud computing 

company. I know the importance of cyber security and the threats we face daily to our 

sensitive information. As Deputy Secretary, how will you work to harden the cyber 

security of our federal networks and protect our citizens' sensitive information? 

Cybersecurity is a top priority of the Department and, if confinned, I commit to working 

with Department and component leadership to clarify roles and responsibilities among 

civilian agencies and facilitating cyber threat information sharing so that personal and 

sensitive information is protected from digital threats. I will continue to strengthen the 

National Cybcrsecurity and Communications Integration Center (NCCIC) in its cyber 

threat information sharing, situational awareness and incident response roles. I will 

ensure that the various missions ofNPPD, including the Office ofCyber and 

Infrastructure Analysis, the Office ofCybersccurity and Communications, and the Office 

of Infrastructure Protection are operating as a system, each strengthening with the work 

of the others, and including privacy impact assessments. 

2. It is important that we balance the need to protect our nation with the constitutional 

right to liberty and privacy. As Deputy Secretary, how will you work to promote 

security while also safeguarding our civil liberties? 

If confirmed, I will ensure that lawful protections for individuals' privacy, civil rights, 

and civil liberties are fully integrated into our principal mission of protecting the 

homeland. I will make the Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and the Privacy 
98 

Office key members of decision teams to ensure these areas are appropriately considered 

in context of the law and situation. 

3. Montana shares a 545-mile border with Canada. It is of critical importance that we 

eliminate any vulnerabilities along this border while also maintaining the ability for 

farmers and ranchers in Montana get their goods to market. 

One key to this is maintaining sufficient staffing. As Deputy Secretary, how would 

you increase retention of Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers and 

boost recruiting to mitigate staffing shortages? 

Employee retention and morale is a top priority of mine and, if confirmed, I will work to 

maintain a transparent and professional atmosphere that encourages employees from all 

parts of the Department to feel included and come to understand the importance of the 

Department's mission. If confirmed, I will be briefed on the current practices in place, 

and I will work with CBP leadership to make sure these men and women know their 

value, to include personal visits to field locations. I will work with human capital to 

ensure there are career paths and growth opportunities to encourage retention. And most 

importantly, I value their operational experience, and their understanding of what they 

need to better perform their operations (processes, technology, etc.). Regarding staffing, 

I may bolster local recruiting efforts, as well as recruiting of separating military 

personnel and college recruiting. 

4. As we increase security on the southern border and increase immigration enforcement 

in the interior, it is important not to forget the vulnerabilities of our northern border 

and coasts. As Deputy Secretary, how will you balance the use ofDHS's limited 

resources to address the movement of illegal drugs, such as methamphetamiucs, 

across all of our borders? 

If contlrmed, I will take a risk management approach to understanding how best to 

allocate the Department's resources. Keeping our country safe is the Department's 

utmost priority and number one mission, and thus we must balance our resources as you 

suggest. In my meetings with the members of this Committee, I learned much about the 

current illegal drug scenario, the movement of those drugs across the northern and 

southern borders, and through our mail system. If confirmed, I will get a comprehensive 

view of the smuggling patterns and ensure that the security protections match those 

threats. 

5. Due to current state law, which was unanimously passed in the Montana state House 

and Senate, Montana will not comply with Real!D provisions and therefor Montanans 
99 

have been denied access to federal facilities, despite having IDs with the necessary 

physical security enhancements. In particular, you may be aware, Montanans who 

have worked for years at federal facilities such as Malmstrom AFB are now being 

denied access, and in some cases asked to apply for federal passports to verify their 

identities. As Deputy Secretary, how will you work with States to address their 

concerns and ensure American citizens are not unduly impeded? 

If confirmed, I will review the status of Montana and other states that are not yet fully 

compliant with the REAL ID provisions. I will work with the Office of Partnership and 

Engagement and Montana officials to develop a plan toward compliance. Additionally, l 

will work with those officials to discuss options for the current needs of Montana residents. 
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Transparency 

Post-Hearing Questions for the Record 

Submitted to Elaine Duke 

From Senator Claire McCaskill 

Nomination Hearing 

For Elaine Duke 

To be Deputy Secretary 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Wednesday, March 8, 2017 

1. Please describe in detail how you will make sure that you live up to your commitment 

in ensuring the Department responds to requests and invitations to hearings, if 

confirmed. 

As I stated in my confirmation hearing, if confirmed I commit to working with the 

members of this committee in ensuring that the Department provides the appropriate 

documents, briefings, and leadership witnesses in a bipartisan fashion to keep the 

Committee updated on Department matters. 

2. Please state whether you believe the Department has an obligation to appear at a 

Congressional hearing when it is invited to provide testimony on the Department's 

policies and/or programs. 

In general, I believe that the Department has an obligation to appear when appropriately 

invited by a committee ofjurisdiction. I understand there have been some misalignment 

regarding what constitutes an appropriate invitation and adequate notice. If confirmed, I 

would work with DHS Office of Legislative Affairs to ensure that with adequate notice, 

we are providing appropriate witnesses for every hearing to which we are invited. 

Immigration and Border Security 

3. In response to your policy questionnaire, you stated that you would recommend that 

DI IS take a risk-based approach to reducing illegal entries to the United States. 

Specifically, you would recommend that the Department study the threats and look at 

the effectiveness and cost of counter threat measures in order to make informed 

decisions about the balance of security measures. If such a study showed that 

spending funds towards the goal of ending all illegal entries to the United States is not 

advisable, please describe what you would do as Deputy Secretary to ensure that 

taxpayer funds for border security are being spent efficiently and effectively. 
101 

If confirmed, l will work with Secretary Kelly to ensure that the actions of the 

Department are always efficient and effective in carrying out its missions. I stand by my 

previous statement of taking risk-based approaches to reviewing best use of federal 

funds. Specifically, I would ensure that each program prepares the appropriate decision 

documents, including life cycle cost estimates and a performance baseline with cost, 

schedule, and performance metrics. I would use this data to make decisions within my 

authority, or to inform decisions of others. 

4. Based on your extensive experience in DHS procurement, please describe the reviews 

that should take place prior to implementing a project like building a border wall 

along the entire U.S. Mexico border. 

a. Please describe the circumstances under which you would support awarding 

contracts for a border wall project prior to the completion of all of these reviews. 

If con finned, I may consider allowing the award of contracts prior to completion of the 

generation and review of the full border security program if: (l) the work was to gather 

market/industry research to inform the requirement on a production contract, or (2) the 

contract was just an agreement or indefinite delivery indefinite quantity contract that did 

not order work or obligate funds until an order was placed, after the appropriate review 

was done. This second circumstance allows for a parallel process. 

5. At your confirmation hearing, you stated that a cost-benefit analysis of the proposed 

border wall is currently underway at DHS. 

a. Please state whether this analysis includes a comparison between the costs and 

benefits of a physical wall versus alternative border security measures. 

b. Please provide the timeline for the completion of this cost benefit analysis. 

If confirmed, I look forward to providing briefings on the border security program, 

including the wall. At this time, I do not know the current status of the CBP program 

work. The Secretary's February 20, 2017 Memorandum for implementing the January 

25, 2017 Executive Order: Border Security and Immigration Enforcement Improvements 

requires both a comprehensive study of border security, as well as immediate measures in 

border wall and technology planning and design. There arc no specific requirements or 

dates stated, however if confirmed I will obtain and monitor that information. 

6. Please describe your plans for improving the acquisition workforce at DHS to avoid 

poor pre-acquisition planning. 

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If confirmed, I would first, with the Chief Acquisition Officer, examine the state of the 

current acquisition workforce, including the staffing and certification levels for major 

acquisition programs. I would address as a priority any program without a properly 

certified program manager. I would discuss the formation of an Acquisition Corps with 

the Chief Human Capital Officer, and look toward expanding the acquisition career 

development program to more acquisition career fields to recruit, train, and retain 

experienced acquisition personnel. 

7. Please describe what you will do to ensure that DHS provides more of its borderrelated performance measures to Congress. 

If confirmed, I would work toward DHS's compliance with Section 1092, Border 

Security Metrics, of the NDAA. I would also ensure that we use the metrics to 

manage and inform the applicable programs. 

8. President Trump's recent Executive Order, and the DHS memo implementing the 

order, contained various provisions related to heightened enforcement of federal 

immigration law, including the hiring of 5,000 additional Border Patrol agents and 

500 Air & Marine Agents/Officers, subject to the availability of resources. Please 

state whether you believe these positions to be inherently governmental and whether 

you believe they should be performed by contractors. 

I do not believe that the federal law· enforcement positions mentioned above can be 

performed by contractor personnel, and their duties must be performed by federal 

employees. If confirmed. I will conduct a thorough review of these position categories to 

see if any support positions, such as maintenance, are included in these numbers that 

could be further analyzed. 

9. Please describe the circumstances in which you believe it is acceptable to have 

ditTerent hiring standards between federal employees and private contractors for the 

same job. 

I believe that federal employees must undergo suitability review for the particular 

position they will perform, in addition to the requirements of any security clearance they 

may require. Additionally, the federal government has certain hiring programs, such as 

priority placement for veterans, which are not applicable to the private sector. 

Contractors must also be qualified and cleared for the work they will perform. In either 

case. an employee or contractor personnel must have the requisite experience, education, 

clearance, and skills to perfonn the job. 

10. Please describe the circumstances in which you believe it is acceptable to have 

different training requirements between federal employees and private contractors for 

the same job. 

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I believe that private contractors should be responsible for keeping their employees 

properly trained to perform their contract duties. The federal government should only 

provide contractor personnel assignment specific training not otherwise available. I 

believe that the federal government should provide its employees the proper training to 

perform their duties. Additionally, I believe the federal government should provide 

additional training opportunities to enrich, grow, and help retain their employees. Career 

development programs arc an example of this type of training. 

Acquisitions 

II. GAO published a report in March 2016, on the budget shortfalls that are projected at 

DHS for its major acquisition programs. The review found that 10 of the major 

acquisition programs had funding gaps of 10% or more. Please describe your plans for 

addressing this problem as well as your plans for avoiding this problem in the future. 

If confirmed. I will ask the Chief Acquisition Officer for a funding profile review of all 

major acquisition programs. I will ask that this be done before the next budget cycle, so 

that any funding shortfalls can be addressed in the five year Fiscal Year Homeland 

Security Plan (FYHSP). For programs that cannot be rationalized against the FYHSP, I 

would want a corrective action plan, meaning what changes, such as reduction in 

requirements, quantity, etc. will take place to address the shortfall. Additionally, if 

confirmed, I would ensure life cycle cost estimates would be completed for each major 

acquisition program, and that those are reconciled with the FYHSP. 

Whistleblowers 

12. In recent years, there have been issues with whistleblower retaliation at DHS, 

particularly with TSA. Please describe your plans for eliminating whistleblower 

retaliation at DHS. 

In the simplest terms, if confirmed, retaliation will not be tolerated. I would conduct 

regular reviews ofwhistleblower cases to look for trends and concentrated areas of 

concern. If such trends or concentrated areas are found, I may conduct remedial training 

to enforce the law. Additionally, if confirmed I will ensure that whistleblower statute and 

guidance is included in supervisory training. 

13. Many whistleblower complaints end in a negotiated settlement with the whistleblower 

getting some sort of restitution, but the alleged retaliating manager admitting no 

wrongdoing. As a result, the manager is not disciplined at all and the message that 

sends is clear: you can retaliate against whistleblowers with impunity. Please 

describe the ways you plan to hold management accountable for handling 

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whistleblowcr complaints appropriately, including whether you would make handling 

disclosures from employees and responding to retaliation concerns a part of the 

performance appraisal process. 

Similar to my response to the previous question, if confirmed I would look at the data, 

especially trends and concentrated areas. I would require a recommendation on 

appropriate management discipline, and would establish an independent review process 

for that recommendation. Leadership and management must be a part of every 

supervisor's performance appraisal. I believe that violations of statute such as the 

Whistleblower Act and EEO should be considered in the review of any supervisor's 

performance. 

Privacy and Civil Liberties 

14. Please describe your plans for incorporating the Privacy Office and the Office for 

Civil Rights and Civil Liberties into the policy decision-making process at DHS. 

If confirmed, I would first be briefed on how Privacy and CRCL influence the policy 

making process. If/as needed, I would provide guidance on how to improve the processes 

in place. I believe if Privacy and CRCL considerations are part of the initial strategy 

planning, they are most successful and can be included most effectively. 

Unity of Effort 

15. Please list the areas ofDHS that you would prioritize in driving better cohesion and 

cooperation. 

If confirmed, I would drive better cohesion and cooperation through a strong deputies 

group if confirmed, which I would lead with each deputy operating component head as a 

member. I would also use that group (Deputies Management Advisory Group [DMAGJ 

or similar), to build relationships, queue up cross component issues, and make 

departmental and cross component decisions. 

If confinned, I would also review the portfolio of the Joint Requirement Council (JRC) to 

determine the priorities based on dollars, impact on mission, and opportunity. I would 

ensure that decisions are made through the JRC, and that it is not just a paper exercise. 

Additionally, if confirmed I would work to establish a robust operational planning 

process early in the Unity of Effort model. 

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Cybersecurity 

16. Please describe the role you believe DHS should have in this country's cybersecurity. 

DHS should lead the nation in securing our country's critical infrastructure from physical 

and cyber threats. This mission requires effective coordination and collaboration between 

the government and the private sector. Through offices such as the National Protection 

and Programs Directorate (NPPD), DHS continues to improve existing and create new 

relationships with private sector organizations so that ideas that help protect private 

information can be shared between industry and government. If confirmed, I will 

encourage this continued collaboration so that our citizens and their private information 

arc safe. 

17. Please describe the resources you believe DHS needs in order to fulfill its role in 

this country's cybersecurity. 

I believe that DHS needs a strong Under Secretary for NPPD, who will lead the 

cybersecurity and critical infrastructure missions of that component. The position 

requires strong leadership skills and technical expertise. My understanding is that DHS is 

currently implementing its cyber workforce flexibilities, and needs to continue moving 

toward an excepted service workforce. 

18. On January 6 2017, DHS announced that it would be designating election 

infrastructure as a critical infrastructure subsector, meaning DHS can offer 

cybersecurity assistance to state and local governments that request it. Do you agree 

with this designation? Please describe what you see as the role ofDHS in helping to 

ensure the security and integrity of our voting systems. 

T believe there has been confusion around the designation, but I do agree that making 

election infrastructure a critical infrastructure subsector does position the states to use 

federal assistance more effectively. Cyber security is a very real issue, and cooperation 

in addressing that threat seems to have credibility. The important fact in this designation 

though is that the state still controls the election process and equipment, and any federal 

assistance is provided as requested by the states. 

Federal Protective Service 

19. Please describe the improvements, if any, you would make to the Federal Protective 

Service's assessment of risk for federal facilities. 

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I am not aware of the totality of current FPS processes to assess risk at federal buildings. 

I do know that there have been consistency issues in the past, including standards, 

training, and enforcement. If confirmed I would look to sec if these problems still exist 

and review current IG/GAO reports, as well as internal assessments, to determine if other 

issues exist. 

Domestic Nuclear Detection Office 

20. Please describe the improvements you would make to the Domestic Nuclear 

Detection Office and its equipment and personnel resources. 

I do not have current information regarding Domestic Nuclear Detection Office (DNDO). 

To gain current information and decide if improvements are needed, if confirmed I would 

review its acquisition programs, the Global Nuclear Detection Architecture, and staffing 

allocation and vacancy rates. From that assessment, I would determine if improvements 

are made. I would, if confirmed, require better coordination and collaboration between 

DNDO, DHS Office of Health Affairs, and DHS Science and Technology to enhance the 

related work they perform. 

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Post-Hearing Questions for the Record 

Submitted to Elaine Duke 

From Senator Heidi Heitkamp 

Nomination Hearing 

For Elaine Duke 

To be Deputy Secretary 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Wednesday, March 8, 2017 

1. Based on the interest of many here in Congress and throughout the federal 

government in reducing the federal cost of disaster response and recovery, the 

proposals to cut funding to critical state and local grant programs run by FEMA are 

concerning. The President's budget blueprint draft proposed cuts to the Emergency 

Management Grant Program- a program that requires a 50% match by State and local 

governments. If confirmed, would you commit to reviewing the various grant 

programs administered by FEMA to examine how to support programs like EMPG, 

which is important to North Dakota, that have significant matching requirements and 

increase capabilities at the State and local level while simultaneously helping to 

reduce the need for federal funding for disaster response and recovery? 

If confirmed, I commit to reviewing all grant programs set forth by the Department and 

its components to ensure efficacy and success in such programs. 

2. FEMA's workforce is increasingly critical to providing consistent support to state, 

tribal, and local governments during and at1er disasters. In order to help communities 

respond and recover in an efficient manner, the workforce must be well trained, 

equipped. and empowered to carry out the mission and provide accurate information 

to those in need. Plans to reduce the federal workforce often increase the interest in 

hiring contractors that may not provide the expertise or consistency needed in the 

weeks, months, and years following an event. Will you commit to reviewing FEMA's 

unique workforce and ensure that any hiring freeze or attrition plan will not 

negatively impact disaster survivors and local government stakeholders that rely on 

these employees for support? 

If confirmed, I commit to reviewing FEMA's workforce structure and protocols for 

supporting disaster survivors during the federal hiring freeze. 

3. The President's recent Executive Orders on Immigration and Border Security address 

interior enforcement and enforcement between the ports-of-entry including the hiring 

of 10,000 Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agents and 5,000 Border Patrol 

Agents. However, there is no mention of addressing the security concerns at the 

ports. According to CBP the vast majority of heroin, cocaine. and methamphetamine 
108 

are being trafficked through these ports. CBP's Office of Field Operations, who are 

responsible for the border security mission at the ports are experiencing signi11cant 

staffing shortages and arc roughly 2000 agents below what they need. These 

shortages not only affect border security but also have an adverse impact on the 

continued growth of international trade and travel. If con11rmed will you commit to 

addressing the security concerns at these ports? 

a) If confirmed will you commit to seeking technological solutions including 

automated and biometric inspections systems that will provide for more efficient 

management of inspection hours at the ports-of-entry? 

b) If con11rmed will you analyze facility and infrastructure requirements at these 

ports considering the projected growth in cross border trade and travel and seek 

solutions that will accommodate this growth? 

If confirmed, I commit to reviewing technological solutions and analyzing facility and 

infrastructure requirements at the ports to ensure that the Department is meticulous in its 

cargo inspections while seeking improvements that do not obstruct cross-border trade and 

travel. 

4. As I stated at to you at the hearing, there arc several issues with the construction of a 

border wall along all or a significant portion - of our southern border with Mexico. 

Secretary Kelly said on repeated occasions prior to his confirmation that a wall was 

not the best strategy - and that a layered approach that encompasses border assets and 

interior assets was a better way to approach border security at our southern border. 

White House OMB Director Mick Mulvaney recently stated that estimates of the wall 

run anywhere from $8-$25million - A MILE. Notwithstanding the strategic efficacy 

and cost of a border wall there are vast challenges that are seemingly being pushed 

to the side in terms of the challenges securing private and Indian Lands along the 

border with Mexico in order to build a wall. 

a) How do you propose we address the legitimate property or treaty rights of 

landowners and tribes along the border who do not want a wall on their land? 

b) Are you aware of any engagement or consultation from the Secretary's office or 

the White House with tribes, landowners, or communities along the southern 

border? 

c) If so, are you aware of what the feedback has been? 

d) If not, please advise with speci11c steps that will be taken to engage tribes, 

landowners, and communities along the southern border prior to making a final 

decision on construction of a wall and what weight their input will be given in the 

Department's analysis? 

a). I can assure you that if con11rmed, DHS will comply with all laws in addressing 

private property and treaty rights with landowners. 
109 

b) and c) I have not been involved in any discussions concerning the cost estimates of the 

wall, nor am I aware of any engagement from the Secretary's office or the White House 

with tribes, landowners, or communities along the southern border. 

d) If confinned, I look forward to interacting with state, local, and tribal officials 

providing a secure border that protects our country's citizens while not obstructing trade 

and travel. I will be briefed on the status of current activities and ensure that appropriate 

engagement and planning is done. 
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Post-Hearing Questions for the Record 

Submitted to The Honorable Elaine Duke 

From Senator Gary Peters 

Nomination Hearing 

For Elaine Duke 

To be Deputy Secretary 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Wednesday, March 8, 2017 

Ms. Duke, you have had a successful career in the federal government, to include your 

previous role as undersecretary for management for DHS. I thank you for your service to 

your country. Please see the below questions for the record. 

I. At DHS, you worked closely with the Chief Information Officer (CIO) and were 

instrumental in the procurement and development of the Department's enterprise 

architecture and information technology systems. With your background in 

procurement and acquisition, do you feel the federal government has an 

adequate information communications technologies (ICT) supply chain risk 

management strategy? 

Since I left DHS in 2010, I would need to look into how the federal government has improved its 

supply chain risk management strategy. With the continually increasing cyber threat, I 

believe we must be ever vigilant on uncovering and countering new threats in the supply 

chain. If confirmed, I would ensure that the Chief Acquisition Officer includes supply 

chain risk appropriately, managed by the Chiefinformation Officer and Chief 

Procurement Officer. 

2. Across the nation, our government faces enduring cybersecurity challenges. Recent 

high-profile incidents, including Russia's infiltration of state voter databases, 

underscore the magnitude of this threat. Like the federal government, our state and 

local governments rely on ICT to deliver key services to the American people. These 

responsibilities include maintaining critical infrastructure as public utilities, fostering 

collaboration between the public and private sectors, and ensuring first responders 

have the information they need in critical situations. What do you see as DHS's role 

in supporting state and local governments that lack the resources to adequately 

respond to cyber-attacks? 

My current understanding is that DIIS's role includes leading the federal critical 

infrastructure program and serving as the Sector-Specific Agency for 10 of the 16 

sectors. As such, DHS should continue to provide support and expertise through the 

National Cybersecurity and Communications Integration Center (NCCIC) to the 

Multi-State Information Sharing and Analysis Center. 
111 

DHS should also, through the Office of Partnership and Engagement, work with state and 

local of1icials to better understand the state and local governments' challenges, 

preparedness, and response needs. If confirmed, I will work with the Department to 

maintain and increase its relationships with the private sector, as well as with state and 

local governments. As we all know, state and local players are almost always the first 

responders, and one ofDHS's roles is to support them. 

3. It is vitally important that each small business understand and manage their 

cybersecurity risks. To address this challenge, I joined Senator Vitter in introducing 

the Small Business Cyber Security Improvements Act of2016. This bill would 

require SBA and DHS to develop a Small Business Development Center (SBDC) 

Cyber Strategy to help small businesses enhance cyber security infrastructure, threat 

awareness, and employee training programs. This bill became law as part of the 

FY20 17 NDAJ\. As Deputy Secretary of DHS, will you commit to ensuring the 

successful implementation of this law? 

If confirmed as Deputy Secretary, I will work to ensure that this and all laws on the 

books. are implemented successfully and enforced by the Department and its 

components. 

4. Since the election we have seen a spike in anti -Muslim incidents in my home State 

of Michigan. Additionally, we have seen a rash of bomb threats against Jewish 

Community Centers in Michigan and across the country. My colleague Senator 

Portman and I, led a letter calling on DHS and DOJ to address these horrific incidents 

and to provide these communities with the resources they need. The letter was signed 

by all 100 members of the Senate. Will you commit to continued support for 

important programs like the Nonprofit Security Grant Program (NSGP) which 

provides assistance to non-profits that are susceptible to terror threats? 

If confirmed, I commit to continued support to state and local governments in protecting 

their communities-individuals and religious groups-from harm. Threats against such 

people and entities are unacceptable, especially in a country that values individual 

freedom and liberty. I know that nonprofit entities are an important part of our country's 

foundation and resiliency, and would consider the NSGP an important element ofDHS 

grant programs. 

5. On March 6, 2017 the President issued an executive order banning individuals from 6 

countries as well as suspending the refugee program. The executive order and rhetoric 

surrounding the order has had consequences for Muslim American communities. 

What steps would you take to prevent DHS employees from profiling or 

discriminating against individuals, including American citizens, based on 

perceived religion? 

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If confirmed, I would not tolerate discrimination based on a person's religion, and I will 

work within the Department and its components to ensure that these actions are not 

tolerated. Additionally, I would ensure that all appropriate trainings are up to date and 

that the training staff are readily available to assist employees with any issues that may 

arise. 

6. Scientific advancements in genetic engineering such as the development of the 

CRISPR tool for gene editing have put the tools of genetic engineering in the hands of 

do-it-yourself biologists. This is leading to new opportunities for education and 

innovation, but the ease of modem genetic engineering has also started to ring some 

alarm bells. How do you view the threat of bioterrorism or a biological accident 

stemming from modern genetic engineering tools in comparison to traditional 

biological threats such as conventional bioterrorism aud naturally occurring 

disease? In your opinion, is the Department of Homeland Security adequately 

prepared for the threat of bioterrorism given the rapidly changing state of 

genetic engineering technology? 

Traditionally, bioterrorism is a real and constant threat to our nation; and preparedness 

for biological threats has not been addressed as well as preparedness for natural disasters. 

If confirmed, I will review the current status of the Department's abilities and needs, and 

look for ways to obtain improvement and adequate preparedness. If confirmed, I would 

also, through the Under Secretary for Management, look at the plans and effectiveness of 

the current BioWatch program. 

7. In November of2014, Secretary Johnson directed the creation of the "Southern 

Border and Approaches Campaign", a "Unity of Effort" approach to improve how the 

Department protects the homeland across our borders. Three ''joint task forces" were 

created under the campaign: "West", "East", and "Investigations", to better coordinate 

DHS assets and personnel. With unique cross border challenges, and significant 

trade and commerce between the United States and Canada, do you think a 

similar effort to improve coordination in the Northern Border Region through 

the creation of a "JTF- North" would be effective? 

I believe that the JTF's are an important operational element of the Department's Unity 

of Etfort. If confirmed, I would consider a JTF-North within a review of the roles, 

responsibilities, and functions of the current JTFs. 

8. The President has said combating transnational criminal organizations is a priority for 

his Administration. I understand that offshore drug interdictions by the Coast Guard 

and partner agencies resulted in more seized drugs in 2016 than any previous year. 

Given their role in combatting transnational criminal organizations, do you 

support increasing investments in the Coast Guard to bolster their border 

security capabilities and better leverage available intelligence? 

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I understand the U.S. Coast Guard's significant role in securing our maritime borders. If 

confirmed, I will assess the current status of funding within the Coast Guard and consider 

how best to allocate the Department's resources so that our maritime and land borders are 

as secure as possible. 

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Post-Hearing Questions for the Record 

Submitted to The Honorable Elaine C. Duke 

From Senator Kamala Harris 

Nomination Hearing 

For Elaine C. Duke 

To be Deputy Secretary 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Wednesday, March 8, 2017 

I. As mandated by Section 13 of the executive order dated January 25, 2017 entitled, 

Enhancing Public Safety in the Interior of the United States, the president directed 

the Director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to "take all 

appropriate and lawful action to establish within U.S. Immigration and Customs 

Enforcement an office to provide proactive, timely, adequate, and professional 

services to victims of crimes committed by removable aliens and the family 

members of such victims." In implementing this directive, Secretary Kelly, 

through his February 20, 2017 implementation memorandum, created the Victims 

Of Immigration Crime Engagement (VOICE) office to assist victims of crimes 

committed by undocumented immigrants to be paid for reallocating any 

department resources currently going to advocating for undocumented immigrants. 

a. Please provide a list of any department resources being using or that 

have used in the past 5 years to advocate for any undocumented 

immigrants. 

b. Please provide any information about department resources for future, 

current. or past expended on advocacy for any undocumented 

immigrants. 

c. Please provide me with an update three months from this submission 

as to the progress the Department has made in standing up this office 

and providing assistance. 

d. Please provide me with any other federal, state. or local plan that has 

been used to model the creation of this office. 

I am not familiar with any efforts of the Department to advocate for illegal aliens, and 

I have not been involved in the establishment of the VOICE office at ICE. However, 

if confirmed, I look forward to being briefed on the office including its mission, 

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115 

funding, and timeline for fully standing up the office. After such time, I will provide 

the update you requested. 

2. During the first round of questioning at your confirmation hearing, you agreed that 

law enforcement should be trained on specific factors that they should consider 

with respect to carrying out immigration enforcement actions that are in 

accordance with the seven categories of enforcement priorities that DHS outlined 

in a memorandum from February 20'h. I then asked whether or not you were are 

aware of any new training that had been planned after that February 20'h 

memorandum to ensure that officers carrying out immigration enforcement actions 

were exercising good judgment and complying with the guidelines set forth in that 

memo. At the time, you were not sure if any training had been planned but 

pledged to get back in touch with me to provide answers. 

a. Please provide me a list with all the new trainings, or changes to 

current trainings that have been planned or are underway, because of 

the February 20'h memorandum. 

b. Please also provide an explanation of how each of those new or 

changed trainings support the goal of ensuring that officers carrying 

out enforcement actions are trained to make sure actions to carry out 

enforcement is in compliance with the seven priority categories for 

enforcement outlined in the February 20'h memo. 

c. If there are no new trainings or changes to existing trainings, or you 

still do not have any knowledge about whether or not they exist, 

please explain to me how you plan to ensure that officers conducting 

entorcement actions receive training that is specific to the February 

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h memo to ensure that they are in compliance with the seven 

priority categories for enforcement outlined in the February 20'h 

memo. 

I am not aware of the details regarding the training officers, agents, and 

attorneys have received as a result of the Executive Order. If confirmed, I will 

work with the relevant offices to become familiar with the relevant training and 

field guidance, and will provide an updated answer to you. 

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116 

3. During my questioning, you mentioned that you did not know whether or not the 

elimination of polygraph testing would result in a degradation of the standards for 

which Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers are hired. 

a. Please explain to me what steps you think should be implemented to 

ensure that the quality of the CBP workforce is not compromised. And 

please indicate whether or not you believe that taking a polygraph test 

as part of the screening process for potential new officers should be 

included as one of those steps. 

I believe that CBP must keep its current recruitment and federal law enforcement 

training standards during the buildup of its workforce. I do not believe that the 

standards should be lessened just to quickly build the workforce; that would be 

shortsighted. If confirmed, I would ensure that CBP does not unilaterally alter 

recruitment or training standards. 

Regarding the polygraph test, prior to 2010, polygraph tests were not required 

for Border Patrol agents. They began as part of the implementation of the AntiBorder Corruption Act of20l0. Acting Commissioner McAleenan is currently 

reviewing the data on the use of polygraph within CBP and other agencies. This 

information is to be briefed to Secretary Kelly before any decision on the 

polygraph is made. If contlrmed, I would participate in the decision process. 

b. If you do not believe that taking a polygraph test should be one of 

those steps, please explain to me how you intend to make sure that 

CBP does not inadvertently hire officers that may seek to undermine 

the mission of the department, and our country's national security 

interests. 

The Department has zero tolerance for employees intending to undermine the 

mission. If confirmed, I will work with component leadership in deciding the 

best course of action for such behavior. This would include ensuring that CBP's 

suitability for employment standards are not relaxed. 

Page 3 of3 
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James M. Loy 

MichaeiP.Jackson 

Paul A. Schneider 

Jane Holl Lute 

Alejandro Mayorkas 

February 24, 2017 

The Honorable Ron Johnson, Chairman 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

United States Senate 

340 Dirksen Senate Office Building 

Washington, D.C. 20510 

The Honorable Claire McCaskill, Ranking Member 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

United States Senate 

340 Dirksen Senate Office Building 

Washington, D.C. 20510 

RE: Recommending the confirmation of Elaine C. Duke as DHS Deputy Secretary; 

Delivered via fax and First Class U.S. Mail 

Dear Chairman Johnson and Ranking Member McCaskill: 

We write to recommend unequivocally the confirmation of Elaine C. Duke, who has been 

nominated to serve as Deputy Secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). 

This letter is signed by five individuals who previously have been honored to be confirmed by 

the Senate to serve as the DHS Deputy Secretary. 

Under the direction of the President and the DHS Secretary, the Deputy Secretary is effectively 

the chief operating officer of this large and vital Department. For this job, the nation needs 

someone with impeccable integrity, strong management and leadership skills and experience in 

protecting the safety, security and resilience of our Nation. This person must be able to 

collaborate routinely and respectively with the Congress, state, local, tribal and territorial 

leaders, the private sector, foreign counterparts and the leadership team of virtually all U.S. 

Departments and agencies. Of course, the Deputy Secretary of the Federal government's thirdlargest Department must ensure that every Congressionally-appropriated dollar is well and 

wisely spent- and accounted for scrupulously. 

Together, we respectfully attest that Elaine is extraordinarily well-qualified to serve in the 

position for which she has now been nominated. 

Elaine has spent almost three decades honorably serving as a Federal employee. Most 

recently, she served as the Senate-confirmed DHS Under Secretary for Management. 

Reflecting her professionalism and dedication to DHS and its critical mission, Elaine began that 

service under President Bush and continued to serve well into the tenure of President Obama. 

As Under Secretary, she supported the entire DHS team, overseeing an annual budget of nearly 

$50 billion. Prior to her tenure as Under Secretary, she served as the Department's Deputy 

Under Secretary for Management and its Chief Procurement Officer, leading DHS's extensive 

acquisition program. 

1 
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Elaine gained important mission experience by helping after the 9/11 attacks to lead the standup of the Transportation Security Administration, where she served as Deputy Assistant 

Administrator for Acquisition beginning in August 2002. As you know, she began her Federal 

career as a contracting officer with the U.S. Air Force and spent much of her career working for 

the U.S. Navy. 

Elaine's distinguished service has not gone unnoticed. She was awarded the Presidential 

Meritorious Rank Award; the DHS Secretary's Medal; the Transportation Security 

Administration's Silver Medal for Customer Service; the Department of the Army Commander's 

Award for Public Service; and the U.S. Coast Guard's Distinguished Public Service Medal. 

In sum, Elaine knows DHS. She has been a senior leader at DHS under two presidents. She 

sets an unwavering standard of excellence for all who consider themselves committed to public 

service. We write respectfully to urge your Committee to meet with Elaine, and to recommend 

her swift confirmation by the U.S. Senate. 

Sincerely, 

James M. Loy 

Michael P. Jackson 

Paul A. Schneider 

Jane Holl Lute 

Alejandro Mayorkas 

2 
119 

Gen. Kelly Confirmation Hearing in HSGAC, January 10,2017 

GEN. KELLY: And those categories [of persons subject to deportation] would be prioritized. I would guess, I am not part of the 

pro~.:ess right now, l \vould guess that this category might not be the highest priority for removal. I promise you, Senator that I 

will be involved in the discussion 

SEN. HARRIS: And do you intend then to use the limited Jaw enforcement resources ofDHS to remove them from the country? 

GEN. KELLY: I wilt fol!ow the la\v. but again, I go back to the-- we have a limited capacity to execute the la\V, so we would 

certainly look at the highest priority activities and-- but I \Vill follow the law to the extent that I can execute the law if that makes 

sense. 

SEN. HARRIS: We!!, l know as a career prosecutor. I \Vas formerly Attorney General of CalifOrnia and before that, the District 

Attorney elected two terms in oflicc that \\'e, in law enforcement have limited resources. 

I am interested in knowing from your perspective where the students and the young people \vho applied and \vere eligible for 

DACA, where they \Votild fall on your list of priorities in terms of the limited lmv enforcement resources that you have or would 

have if confirmed. 

KELLY: l think law abiding individuals would in my mind with limited assets to execute the law would probably not be at the 

top of the list. 

[SOL'!ICE.- Gen. Kelly Confirmation Hearing in HSGAC, January 10, 2017] 

February 20, 2017 Memorandum from Sec. Kelly, 

Memorandum on Enforcement oft!te Immigration Laws to Serve the National Interest 

Except as specifically noted above, the Department no longer will exempt classes or categories of removable aliens from 

potential enforcement. In faithfully executing the immigration laws, Department personnel should take enforcement actions in 

accordance with applicable law. In order to achieve this goal, as noted below, I have directed ICE to hire 10,000 officers and 

agents expeditiously, subject to available resources, and to take enforcement actions consistent with available resources. 

Additionally, regardless of the basis of removability, Department personnel should prioritize removable aliens who: 

( 1) have be~n convicted of any criminal offense: 

(2) have hcen charged \Vith any Crimina! oflense that has not been resolved: 

(3) have committed acts which constitute a chargeable crimina! offense; 

(4) have engaged in fraud or willful misrepresentation in connection with any official matter before a governmental agency: 

(5) have abused any program related to receipt of public benefits: 

(6) are subject to a final order of removal but have not complied with lhcir legal obligation to d~part the United States; or 

(7) in the judgment of an immigration officer, otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security, The Director of ICE, the 

Commissioner ofCBP. and the Director ofUSCIS may, as they determine is appropriate. issue further guidance to allocate 

appropriate resources to prioritize enforcement activities within these categories-for example, by prioritizing enforcement 

activities against removable aliens who are convicted felons or who arc involved in gang activity or drug trafficking. 

!SOURCE: Secretary John Kelly, Feb. 20,2017 Memorandum on Enforcement of the Immigration Laws to Serve the l'../ational 

Interest] 
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Feb2217HarrisPanel 

IMMIGRATION POLICY FORUM 

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 

12 HOSTED BY 

13 SENATOR KAMALA D. HARRIS (CALIFORNIA) 

14 

15 Entered into the record of the Senate Committee on 

16 Homeland Security and Government Affairs 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

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Feb2217HarrisPanel 

24 

25 

1 

2 PANEL MEMBERS 

3 

4 HONORABLE KAMALA D. HARRIS, UNITED STATES SENATOR 

(CALIFORNIA) 

5 

SHERIFF JIM MC DONNELL, 

6 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 

7 KENNY SALAS, 

CAMINO FINANCIAL 

8 

9 ANTHONY NG, 

ASIAN AMERICANS ADVANCING JUSTICE IN LOS ANGELES 

10 

11 ANGELICA SALAS, 

1 

COALITION FOR HUMANE IMMIGRANT RIGHTS OF LOS ANGELES 

12 

13 MARIELENA HINCAPIE, 

NATIONAL IMMIGRATION LAW CENTER 

14 

1S 

16 AUDIENCE MEMBERS 

17 ANDREA VALLES, 

SECRETARY/TREASURER OF SEIU WORKERS WEST. 

18 

19 ANDREA GUERRERO, 

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EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALLIANCE SAN DIEGO. 

21 CHRIS NEWMAN, 

NATIONAL DAY LABORER ORGANIZING NETWORK 

22 

23 

24 

25 

1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2017 

2 10:38 A.M. 

3 

4 

5 

6 SENATOR HARRIS: Welcome everyone. 

2 

7 I'm glad that we were able to convene so many 

8 leaders under one roof to have a conversation today to 

9 share information, to share ideas·, to talk about a 

10 strategy and highlight some of the best work that's 

11 happening in the country around the support and the work 

12 that we need to do to make sure that we are true to the 

13 values that we have as a country. 

14 I will say that in these times I find myself 

15 often thinking about this point, which is, flawed though 

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16 we may be, we are a great country. We are a great 

17 country. And part of what makes us great is we are a 

18 country that was founded on certain ideals; the ideals 

19 that are present in the First Amendment; the ideals that 

20 are present when we talk about the freedom of information 

21 and association; the ideals that are present when in 1776 

22 we said: we are all and should be treated as equals. 

23 These are the ideals upon which our country was 

24 founded. And this is a moment in time that is 

25 challenging us to fight for those ideals. 

3 

1 And in fighting for those ideals we are being 

2 patriots. We are doing this because we love our country 

3 and we are going to fight for the best of who we are. 

4 So with that spirit in mind, I welcome everyone 

5 to our forum. As your newly elected senator I'm very 

6 proud to be here and to represent our great state, great 

7 State of California. 

8 And I am here, also, more specifically, in my 

9 role as a member of the United States Senate Committee on 

10 Homeland Security and Government Affairs. 

11 And this committee, as many of you know, 

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12 provides oversight over the nation's principal 

13 immigration agency, which is the United States Department 

14 of Homeland Security. 

15 so that is the reason and the purpose for this 

16 convening today. I am here as an official member of that 

17 committee. And what we will be doing is having a 

18 discussion that will actually be transcribed by a court 

19 reporter, and a full transcript of today's forum will be 

20 placed in the official United States record on this 

21 issue, and the committee's proceedings on immigration and 

22 the administration's executive actions as they relate to 

23 immigration. 

24 So when I go back to Washington, D.C., we have 

25 a date that is -- can you tell me the date, please? 

4 

1 THE FLOOR: March 1st. 

2 SENATOR HARRIS: March 1st is the date when we're 

3 going to be submitting the hearing. We just got the date 

4 from D.C. 

5 So that is the purpose and the spirit behind 

6 why we are here. And to set the table, I'll say that as 

7 we all know, over the last few weeks this new 

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8 presidential administration has issued an unprecedented 

9 series of executive actions. And these actions have been 

10 directed at and targeting our immigrant communities, our 

11 Muslim communities. 

12 And so we know that through these executive 

13 actions also that it is clear there's now more widespread 

14 detention of immigrants with far less prioritization than 

15 existed before. We know this based on also the executive 

16 action that just came down yesterday. 

17 We also know that this administration has not 

18 made a firm commitment around its policy as it relates to 

19 the 250>000 Dreamers. Many of you may know that as a 

20 member of the committee on Homeland Security I actually, 

21 on the record twice, questioned General Kelly during 

22 those hearings on whether the administration, and his, 

23 the director of this department, would honor the promise 

24 we made to those Dreamers> to those DACA kids> when we 

25 said that if they give us the information that is 

1 necessary to vet them so that they qualify for DACA> we 

2 said we would not share that information with ICE. 

5 

3 And I asked him twice on the record to confirm 

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4 that we would keep our commitment to those young people 

5 who I described correctly as being college students, 

6 enlisted people in our military, young people who are 

7 working for Fortune 100 companies. 

8 I asked him if he would keep that promise, and 

9 he would not commit to keeping that promise. 

10 And there is nothing about the executive 

11 actions at this point that has made clear that we are 

12 going to keep that commitment as it relates to those who 

13 may be swept up in the most recent executive action that 

14 came down yesterday, which is a broad definition of who 

15 can be detained, including those who might be charged 

16 with a crime, any level of crime. 

17 Last week we even saw some in the 

18 administration float the idea of dispatching 100,000 

19 members of the National Guard to participate, which is of 

20 course shocking, the thought of it, especially for us as 

21 California where we have experienced huge harm in terms 

22 of natural disasters. 

23 I'm going to later this week tour the dam. I 

24 am corresponding with the Mayor of San Jose around the 

25 harm that the flooding has caused to his residents. 

6 

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1 The National Guard was charged, and is charged, 

2 in our system of government for helping with national 

3 disasters, natural disasters, not doing something like 

4 the work of ICE. So these are obviously troubling words 

5 and perspective that we're hearing from the 

6 administration. 

7 And let's be clear that these issues are not 

8 only troubling in terms of just what is morally right, 

9 what is right in terms of who we are and what our ideals 

10 are as a country. These administrative actions also harm 

11 us economically as a state and as a country. 

12 In California 44 percent of Fortune see firms 

13 were founded by immigrants or their children. This 

14 includes household names like eBay, Yahoo and Qualcomm. 

15 This also includes brand-new companies. 

16 In 2015 in L.A. County alone, six of the 13 

17 Fortune see companies were founded by immigrants or their 

18 children. It's obviously a huge share of our economy. 

19 In California immigrant-owned businesses and 

20 firms generate - immigrant-owned businesses and firms 

21 generate - $20 billion a year. And those businesses are 

22 giving back to California as we know. In 2014 immigrants 

23 paid $56.5 billion in state and local taxes. 56 billion, 

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24 with a "B" dollars in state and local taxes. 

25 And, of course, these bans and these actions 

1 not only cost us in terms of our economy but do cost us 

2 in terms of public safety. 

3 As a career prosecutor I have long known and 

4 seen that those who would commit crimes against 

7 

5 immigrants will always have in their tool belt to look at 

6 the victim and say: if you report the crime against you 

7 be it rape, domestic violence, fraud - if you report the 

8 crime against you, it is you who will be treated as the 

9 criminal. 

10 And let's be clear: when any predator is 

11 empowered to think they can get away with their crime, 

12 all of us are at risk. This is not just about that 

13 victim, it is about all of us. And all of us in terms of 

14 those of us who pride ourselves in fighting for and 

15 living in a civil society. 

16 And as a prosecutor I can tell you, I think it 

17 is a serious mistake for us to conflate criminal justice 

18 policy with immigration policy as though they are the 

19 same thing. They are two policy areas with their own 

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20 factors and pathologies and problems and solutions. 

21 And it is a mistake for any, any one who holds 

22 a position of authority or leadership to conflate the 

23 two. And it is only feeding a climate of fear. It is 

24 not productive. 

25 I'll also talk about the strain on local law 

1 enforcement. I know as the former top law enforcement 

8 

2 officer of this state, local law enforcement is strapped 

3 in terms of the limited resources they have as compared 

4 to the job that they are charged with doing. 

5 The job of responding to a call that relates to 

6 a homicide; the job of responding to a call that relates 

7 to human trafficking; the job of responding to a call 

8 that relates to domestic violence or child sexual 

9 assault - these police departments have limited resources 

10 and so much work that they take a sincere oath to do. 

11 And the notion that we would put on top of them 

12 then, and pile on top of them then, beyond their own 

13 responsibilities, the job of performing the work of the 

14 Federal Government, and in particular our immigration 

15 laws, is just unrealistic. And it is a bad use and 

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16 distribution of limited resources. 

17 So on the public policy in terms of just what 

18 is appropriate distribution of resources in a trifurcated 

19 form of government - local, state and federal - it's just 

20 a bad idea to require local government to do the work of 

21 the Federal Government on an issue like this. 

22 Not to mention the fact that I want to know 

23 that that victim of a crime will feel that she can run 

24 out in the middle of the street and wave down a patrol 

25 car as it is driving by, knowing that will be how she 

1 receives help and safety, instead of standing back and 

2 not doing that for fear that to do that might mean that 

3 she is ripped apart from her children. 

4 We have to talk about what is the sign of a 

5 civil society. So we are here today to talk about the 

6 impact of these actions and the impact that they are 

9 

7 having on the streets of Los Angeles, on the streets of 

8 California; and I'm going to take these stories back. 

9 They will be part of the official record and we will all 

10 be talking about them, but I think it's very, very 

11 important, as we all know, that we put dimension on these 

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12 executive actions; that we put faces and names to what is 

13 actually happening because I am sure that there are many 

14 well-intended people who don't know or understand what 

15 these actions are actually doing to hardworking families. 

16 And so the stories need to be told. And I 

17 believe we have the power and the ability to be 

18 persuasive in asking people to reconsider how we are 

19 approaching these issues and are these the consequences 

20 that we intend, and are these consequences reflective of 

21 the ideals of who we are as a country. 

22 So with that, I'm going to now turn it over to 

23 Sheriff McDonnell. And thank you, Sheriff McDonnell, you 

24 are -- you've been extraordinary in terms of your 

25 leadership in Los Angeles and as a great law enforcement 

1 leader and a colleague to me. 

2 And thank you for being here. 

3 SHERIFF MC DONNELL: Thank you, Senator. 

4 

5 

Good morning everyone, and thank you for the 

opportunity to be able to talk on this issue. 

19 

6 We've heard a lot of rhetoric over the campaign 

7 season and since that time and trying to translate that 

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8 into what does that mean for people here in Los Angeles. 

9 We're committed to public safety. We're 

10 committed to working with all of the residents of L.A. 

11 County to be able to ensure that everybody is as safe as 

12 they can possibly be. 

13 So in doing that we continue to do business in 

14 a way where we don't stop people on the street to find 

15 out what their immigration status is. We have no 

16 interest in that. We do the job. We try and work with 

17 every community that we are privileged to have the 

18 opportunity to protect and to serve. 

19 And in doing so our currency is trust> is 

20 credibility. And if people are afraid to come forward, 

21 then we can't do the job the way it needs to be done. We 

22 can't fulfill our obligation to protect our society. 

23 So as we move forward> we plan on continuing to 

24 do things the way we have been doing them> the way 

25 that -- the foundation of trust that we've been able to 

11 

1 build. We want to be able to further build on that. We 

2 want none of that to erode in any of our communities. 

3 Community policing, policing and public safety 

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4 is a team sport and we can only do it well if we do it 

5 all together. so we've learned a lot of lessons over the 

6 years. We're in a position now where I think we have a 

7 strategy to be able to deal with the issues of the day in 

8 a way that protects our communities, that enables us to 

9 be able to maintain the level of trust that we've worked 

10 hard to achievej but at the same time we're able to use 

11 the tools necessary to remove true predators from our 

12 communities as well. And that's a balance that we have 

13 to try and achieve. 

14 There's people on one side that will say, you 

15 know: don't talk to ICE at all. There's people on the 

16 other side that, you know, completely cooperate with ICE 

17 and work with them and go to the other extreme. 

18 I think probably the right answer is somewhere 

19 in the middle in that HSI, a part of ICE, is probably our 

20 best partner on sex trafficking and on dealing with some 

21 very difficult issues. They're very, very helpful to us. 

22 So the task forces that we're on - and there is 

23 some that would like us to remove ourselves from any task 

24 force that ICE is involved in or that there's any 

25 immigration issues addressed in those task force - the 

12 

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1 Joint Terrorism Task Force, the Joint Regional 

2 Intelligence Center; a lot of the ways with limited 

3 resources, as the Senator mentioned, that we're able to 

4 get the job done is in task force configuration by using 

5 the benefits of what others have to offer on federal, 

6 state and local partners. 

7 So we do that, but we do it in a way where I 

8 think we strike that balance between being trusted, being 

9 approachable and being what every segment of our 

10 community is looking for. And at the same time being 

11 able, with limited resources, to effectively protect 

12 everyone across the board. 

13 As the Senator mentioned, our responsibilities 

14 are very diverse. We go from the day-to-day, day-to-day 

15 crime prevention and solving crimes, to the 

16 counterterrorism overlay, and on and on and on. 

17 And in the L.A. County Sheriff's Department we 

18 not only provide policing services for four million 

19 people over 4,083 square miles; but we also do the jails, 

2e the courts, the community colleges, the hospitals, the 

21 parks, search and rescue, the MTA. 

22 And so we have a tremendous, you know, 

23 diversity of responsibility. We are stretched very thin. 

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24 So as the Senator mentioned, even if someone was inclined 

25 to try and do what some would like, the personnel 

1 resources are not there to be able to achieve that, 

2 certainly at the local level here. And I would argue 

3 that any police chief or sheriff across America would 

4 argue that as well. 

5 So my commitment is to continue to be in a 

6 position where we're serving all aspects of our 

7 community, all members of our community across the 

13 

8 county, and to be able to work with all of our partners 

9 to ensure the safety of everybody who resides in 

10 Los Angeles County. Thank you for this opportunity. 

11 SENATOR HARRIS: Thank you, Sheriff. 

12 Next I'm going to turn it over to Kenny Salas, 

13 who co-founded an online lending site that helps connect 

14 small business owners who are first-time borrowers to 

15 those who have had a hard time getting a loan with banks 

16 and other lenders. 

17 Kenny, thank you for being here and for telling 

18 your story and representing our community and our state 

19 so well. And perhaps you can share a bit, also, about 

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20 the economic impact and significance of these executive 

21 actions. 

22 KENNY SALAS: I would love to do that. And really I 

23 want to share the perspective of not only an entrepreneur 

24 but an entrepreneur that is the son of an immigrant that 

25 came from Mexico. 

14 

1 The power that immigration, the immigration 

2 story has, as an entrepreneur, transcends multiple 

3 generations. She moved out my mother moved out here 

4 in the '50s from Mexico and she, in her teens, opened a 

5 taco standj and this transformed into about 25 fast food 

6 restaurants that she opened in Los Angeles called The 

7 Mexicana. 

8 The only degree she had was a beauty 

9 certificate that she got at a community college out here, 

10 but she had the entrepreneurial spirit. 

11 Unfortunately, as her business grew, it just 

12 became a little too much to manage. Right? As you think 

13 about the cost of -- different costs of managing a 

14 business, it was above her means. 

15 And unfortunately, she closed her restaurants. 

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15 And my brother and I moved to Mexico with her and -- but 

17 always had wanted to move back to the United States to 

18 repursue that American dream that my mother had at her 

19 grasp. And that really inspired us to eventually get our 

20 education after we worked on Wall Street for five years 

21 and eventually get our degree at Harvard and to incubate 

22 this concept of Camino Financial, a technology company 

23 with the mission of serving underserved businesses. 

24 And I'm proud to say that currently we are an 

25 employer of 17 people out here in Los Angeles, the 

1 representative of seven different countries. So 

2 immigration in that spirit is inherent in the DNA of 

3 camino Financial. 

15 

4 And, also, 70 percent of the businesses we help 

5 are owned by immigrants. And despite what is going on in 

6 Capitol Hill, Camino Financial is redoubling its effort 

7 to invest in this community. We're raising an additional 

8 $10 million. Currently we have 1,200 applications come 

9 in every month from the -- from small business owners 

10 seeking capital and also advisory. 

11 In order to illustrate the economic impact that 

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12 a loan can have is, in many ways, when business owners 

13 come, there are many family-owned businesses informally 

14 run. I'll be the first to say that the majority of them 

15 probably don't reflect everything on their taxes. 

16 What does that mean? And that's not only 

17 immigrant companies, that's across the spectrum. So let 

18 me be very clear on the record: across the spectrum. 

19 Okay? 

20 Being able to give that business owner capital 

21 incentivizes them to report their taxes> to pay more 

22 taxes to the government> to enter into the formal 

23 economy. And I'll give you one illustrative example: 

24 Gabriel Latuga. He owns a specialty manufacturing 

25 company in Palm Springs. And we were able to give him a 

16 

1 $25e,eee loan when he was not able to secure this capital 

2 from a bank. 

3 I'm proud to say that with that capital he, 

4 within a year he hired four more people to his business, 

5 and he grew the top line and the bottom line by over 

6 double digits. 

7 So capital can really serve as a driver, not 

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8 only to incentivize people to formalize their business 

9 and enter into that - to the formal economy - which we 

10 can really help them; and they can take advantage of the 

11 resources, such as those offered by the Small Business 

12 Administration. But in addition to that, it gives them 

13 the capital to grow their business and employ more people 

14 in this beautiful state. Thank you. 

15 

16 

SENATOR HARRIS: Thank you, Kenny. 

Next, I want to welcome Anthony Ng of Asian 

17 Americans Advancing Justice organization. He applied for 

18 and qualified for protection under DACA and, as a result, 

19 he has been contributing to our state and our nation in a 

20 pretty significant way. 

21 Welcome, and thank you for being here. 

22 ANTHONY NG: Thank you so much, Senator Harris. 

23 My name is Anthony Ng. I came to the 

24 United States from the Philippines when I was 12 because 

25 there was an economic crises in Southeast Asia that 

1 bankrupt our small business in the Philippines. 

2 When I first moved to the United States, I 

3 didn't know what my life was going to be like. All I 

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4 knew was I was with my family. 

5 When DACA happened in 2012, I remember waking 

6 up one morning, looking on my social media feed and 

7 seeing some buzz around the president making an 

8 announcement around deferred action. So I didn't know 

9 what that meant. I was, like, this must be some sort of 

10 joke. Until I really understood what was happening. 

11 That day was actually my first day interning at 

12 Asian Americans Advancing Justice, and there was an 

13 opening retreat for the program that I was part of. 

14 And I remember seeing the announcement with 

15 about 150 undocumented youth and really understanding 

16 that DACA was an organizing victory led by undocumented 

17 youth that was won by the immigrant community; and, 

18 really, that allowed me to understand the power that we 

19 have as community members, as immigrant communities. 

20 And although I did have hesitation about 

21 applying for DACA in the beginning: like, what does this 

22 mean? Why am I going to give my information to the 

23 government? For someone that's lived, "quote unquote," 

24 in the shadows for the longest time, to be able to give 

25 your information to the government. Right? And not 

18 

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1 knowing what's going to happen with that. 

2 When I applied for DACA - and many of us 

3 applied for DACA - we had the faith in this government 

4 that our information would be kept confidential; it would 

5 not be using our information for immigration enforcement 

6 purpose. 

7 And I think just hearing what's happening all 

8 over the country and with executive orders and the folks 

9 in D.C., really not feeling confident that that is going 

10 to be -- that trust that I had was going to be upheld. 

11 Right? And a lot of us that are DACA recipients are 

12 scared of what's going to happen, not just to us. Right? 

13 I think it's beyond me. It's beyond folks who 

14 have DACA. It's about our families and about the 

15 communities that we live in. Right? What happens to 

16 those information knowing that we all live in mix-status 

17 families, and how is that going to be used against us, 

18 immigrants who do live in mixed-status families? 

19 And I think -- although DACA did have a lot of 

20 positive impact. Like I remember graduating from college 

21 in 2011 thinking I had no future and being able to get 

22 out of the depression and being able to -- like, I did 

23 have a future. Right? Like, even though it was a 

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24 two-year incremental kind of period - process - it has 

25 allowed me to be able to think beyond like the next day 

19 

1 or the following week, how am I going to be able to 

2 survive? 

3 And I think it allowed me to really harness my 

4 passion for social justice and immigrant rights work, and 

5 be able to do that in a nonprofit setting. Right? 

6 So I've been doing immigrant rights work for 

7 the past five years, working on various issues from 

8 immigration reform in 2013 to some of our most proactive 

9 immigrant agenda here in California, which is a driver's 

10 license, some of the really great policies we've had. 

11 I've had the pleasure of 1-10rking with folks here on the 

12 panel, around some of our local work, disentangling ICE 

13 with local law enforcement. 

14 And it's really great to have Sheriff McDonnell 

15 here next to me, really having to talk about how to make 

16 L.A. County as safe as possible. And really, the trust 

17 that needs to be further built between the law 

18 enforcement and our communities. 

19 I think DACA has different impacts on different 

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28 folks. Right? I think it does create a sense of ease 

21 that you're not necessarily the target for priority of 

22 enforcement. Right? But you know as yesterday, seeing 

23 that, it really is chaotic. Right? We don't know, like, 

24 DACA folks will be second priority, third priority, 

25 fourth priority. Right? 

20 

1 Like I think there is a sense of anxiety of 

2 what's going to happen with information that's out there 

3 or what's going to happen to the program and what 

4 precedent does this create for our government - right -

5 to say that we are creating this program and then take 

6 back the word and actually use it against the folks who 

7 apply for it. Right? 

8 So I think, as a DACA recipient, I'm going to 

9 continue fighting with the immigrant community to ensure 

18 that folks are not marginalized, that folks - the 

11 numbers that we're hearing. Right? Like the amount of 

12 folks from DACA, the amount of undocumented folks in this 

13 country - that it's not just about the numbers: it's 

14 really about the human face of it. Right? 

15 Whether it's the people that got caught in the 

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16 raids that happened a couple of weeks ago, or even the 

17 folks that are here on the streets, fearful of what's 

18 going to happen to them, to their families, or the kids 

19 that don't know what's going to happen to their parents 

20 who might be stranded in school, not knowing are their 

21 parents going to be able to come because their parent got 

22 caught up in the raids. 

23 I think we're in a very unique time in our 

24 country's history where we are really figuring out our 

25 values as a country. Are we welcoming folks from all 

21 

1 sorts of walks of life. Right? Are we really harnessing 

2 the talents and the contributions, not just economic 

3 contributions of immigrants but the social, economic and 

4 cultural contributions of immigrants? 

5 SENATOR HARRIS: Next I want to introduce Angelica 

6 Salas who is a tremendous leader and has been doing a lot 

7 of work through CHIRLA for people in Los Angeles, but 

8 really statewide and nationally. 

9 Thank you, for your partnership. 

10 ANGELICA SALAS: I really want to begin by saying 

11 thank you for bringing us together in this very important 

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12 moment. So thank you for your leadership, 

13 Senator Harris. We're very proud to have you as our 

14 senator from California. 

15 CHIRLA's mission is to advance the human and 

16 civil rights of immigrants and refugees and to build a 

17 just society in which immigrants are included. 

18 I, myself, am an immigrant from Mexico. My 

19 parents came here in the '70s as undocumented workers, 

20 and I and my sister joined them when we were four and 

21 five. The '70s were a period in our country where there 

22 were mass roundups: mass roundups in factories, mass 

23 roundups in communities. 

24 I know that because that is the experience that 

25 my family had where my mother was picked up from a 

22 

1 garment factory, and -- as that factory was raided. And 

2 uncles and aunts have similar stories of being picked up 

3 in that way. And just not feeling safe. Not feeling 

4 safe at work; not feeling safe in the community. And I 

5 am so concerned that we're going back to that moment of 

6 mass roundups in this country. 

7 So I want to be very, very clear today that our 

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8 immigrant families are feeling terrorized. They're 

9 feeling attacked. They're feeling vilified; they are 

10 being vilified; and all their contributions - everything 

11 that they give to this country - is being absolutely 

12 ignored. They are being painted as individuals who they 

13 are not. They're contributors. They're builders of this 

14 nation. They're strivers for their families. They are 

15 good people. They are Americans in every way. 

16 The administration's executive orders that we 

17 have seen are moving forward an agenda which is to 

18 destroy families, plain and simple, and to attack whole 

19 communities simply because of their religion, simply 

2e because of what country they were born in. 

21 And simply because our elected officials have 

22 failed them in passing immigration reform in a system 

23 that is just, in a system that is modern, in a system 

24 that's going to actually allow for legal entry into this 

25 country and not ballooning the undocumented migration 

1 into this nation. 

2 It is a system that has not been -- that 

3 refuses to recognize that individuals are fleeing for 

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4 their lives. People are in peril of losing their lives, 

5 that is why they're coming to our nation as refugees, 

6 whether they be from Syria, whether they be from many 

7 countries in Africa, Asia or right down near us in --

8 both in Mexico and in Central America. 

9 We're denying the fact that they need refuge. 

10 They don't need more attacks) and they don't need denials 

11 of their rights. 

12 On February 8th and 9th in Los Angeles we saw 

13 ICE sweeps. so for the community all that was promised 

14 during the campaign and all that was written in paper on 

15 an executive order now has become a realty in their 

16 lives. In Los Angeles we had six Southland counties 

17 targeted, 161 people picked up. Fifty-five neighborhoods 

18 in which individuals saw people being picked up at their 

19 jobs, at their homes and in their communities. 

20 Individuals were picked up - were picked up -

21 in these different places, and all of these actions were 

22 witnessed by their families, by their coworkers, by their 

23 neighbors. 

24 That is why at CHIRLA we received thousands of 

25 calls from individuals who were reporting ICE in their 

24 

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1 neighborhoods. They wanted to tell us what was 

2 happening. ICE denied it. ICE denied that this was 

3 happening in our communities. 

4 But because of the pressure of individuals like 

s Senator Harris, our members of Congress, our local 

6 elected officials and people of goodwill - they had to 

7 force, come forward, with the information that, yes, 

8 these kinds of raids were happening. And they weren't 

9 just happening in Southern California. They were 

10 happening all over the country. 

11 The human cost is severe, and I'm most worried 

12 about the children who are witnessing these actions. 

13 Many of these children are being left behind without a 

14 father, without a mother. Many of these children are 

15 u.s. Citizens themselves. 

16 For many of these individual families who are 

17 mixed status, what is happening is many of the 

18 individuals who are being picked up are the main 

19 breadwinner; that is why they're being picked up at work. 

20 I want to just really emphasize this. They 

21 weren't being picked up doing illicit behavior. They 

22 were being picked up at work and with their families. So 

23 what we're doing in terms of the -- it's the human cost, 

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24 but it's also the economics to those economic cost to 

25 those families where they don't -- no longer have a bread 

25 

1 winner. 

2 And it's basically also leaving the family in 

3 total trauma. Trauma about what has happened in the 

4 destruction of their family, but also economic ruin. 

5 What I know is that people do not feel safe, 

6 and that is why we're also getting calls from legal 

7 permanent residents. Legal permanent residents who feel 

8 that even though they are legally in this country, who 

9 have a permanent ability to stay in this country, they 

10 want to become citizens because they don't believe their 

11 legal permanent residency status is going to be honored 

12 or respected. 

13 So every day at our organization we have 

14 individuals coming forward. And I know that many of my 

15 sister organizations, whether its CARCEN, and others, are 

16 seeing the same -- the same thing: individuals saying I 

17 need to become a citizen because I don't think I, a legal 

18 permanent resident, will be protected. 

19 Finally, the cost of these enforcement actions 

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20 are exorbitant. The Center for American Progress did a 

21 report in 2010 that basically stated that if we were to 

22 deport 8 to 9 million people, it would cost us 

23 $285 billion to deport this amount of people as promised 

24 right now by Donald Trump. 

25 Imagine this: $285 billion over a five-year 

26 

1 period to deport 8 to 9 million people - and they want to 

2 do it faster. And so, imagine what we could do with 

3 $285 billion invested in education, in housing, in health 

4 care, and, yes, in the u.s. Citizenship and Immigration 

5 Services, so that we actually could fund the departments, 

6 to process legal paperwork so people can come in legally, 

7 and their asylum claims and their citizenship 

8 applications can be processed even faster. 

9 This is a wrong way for our country to move 

10 forward. We as citizens of this nation, as individuals 

11 who believe in the values of liberty and justice, should 

12 not accept what's happening right now. 

13 Yesterday we saw the work plan, the way that 

14 the executive orders are going to be implemented. And be 

15 clear, we're going back to -- and I want to be clear - we 

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16 are going back to the time of mass roundups. And they 

17 want to use our local law enforcement, as they call them, 

18 as force multipliers. 

19 We cannot allow this to happen. We need to 

20 speak up, and I know good people all over this country 

21 are speaking up. We need to stop this, and stress, and 

22 show that Americans believe in justice, in due process; 

23 and we believe in family; and we believe in fairness. 

24 Thank you very much. 

25 And I want to actually enter into the record a 

1 letter with many of our concerns to Senator Harris so 

2 that it can be entered into the record. 

3 Thank you very much. 

27 

4 SENATOR HARRIS: It will be entered into the record. 

5 Thank you. 

6 And we have Marielena Hincapie, who is another 

7 of our distinguished panelists. She is the executive 

8 director of the National Immigration Law Center, and a 

9 leader -- another leader, as everyone at this table, 

10 around these issues, but particularly the pro bono legal 

11 services component of this issue. 

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12 MARIELENA HINCAPIE: Thank you, Senator Harris. 

13 And thank you for your leadership and for not 

14 only representing us in Washington but here. 

15 Many of us, this is our second time meeting 

16 with you and you've only been in office for, I believe, 

17 exactly a month. So that, again, it just speaks to, you 

18 know, just speaks volumes on your leadership; and also 

19 want to thank you on behalf of the National Immigration 

Law Center for working with us to reunite literally a 

21 Syrian family that was detained at LAX, and Lin, and 

22 their 18-month-old son. Thank you very much for that 

23 work. 

24 So these are very dangerous times. I'm just 

25 going to be really blunt. We are living in a period 

28 

1 where racism, xenophobia, hatred is the policy of the day 

2 coming from Washington, D.C., from the White House. 

3 I'm also an immigrant. I'm an immigrant from 

4 Columbia. My father was a guest worker. He was 

5 recruited to work at a time when textile, skilled textile 

6 worker was considered a skilled worker. And he came. 

7 And we were able to come actually with green cards 

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8 eventually in the 1970s. 

9 My parents made a sacrifice to come to the 

10 United States because they were fleeing poverty and 

11 violence in Columbia. They came to the United States the 

12 same way that millions, millions of immigrants and 

13 refugees have come throughout our history. 

14 That notion that our country can be a place 

15 that welcomes people of all nationalities, of all faiths, 

16 of all races, that we can come to this country and become 

17 thriving individuals who can fulfill our full human 

18 potential. Look, my father had a second-grade education. 

19 My mom had a fifth-grade education. 

20 Never in their dreams did they think that I 

21 would be a lawyer today, sitting next to a senator of the 

22 United States. Honestly, my parents, my father, thought 

23 that I should become a nail salon owner. 

24 He was an entrepreneur, speaking of 

25 entrepreneurs. Right? He really didn't know, but he 

1 knew this: so that hair salon and nail salon, that 

2 will -- that will allow you to make a living. 

3 But they also believed in the power of 

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4 education: the power of education as an equalizer and a 

5 pathway out of poverty. That dream that they were 

6 actually able to fulfill, my ten brothers and sisters, 

7 all of us, are now contributing to this country as small 

8 business owners, as educators, as health providers, a 

9 biochemist, a corporate manager. I mean, we fulfill all 

10 these different roles in society, and we are just a 

11 sample of the immigrants that make this country great. 

12 What is at stake today is that the White House, 

13 and the person who is occupying that White House, has now 

14 said that every immigrant is now a priority. 

15 Yesterday the implementing memos that were 

16 issued clarify, and the FAQ's, the fact sheets that were 

17 issued with them. And yesterday on the call that the 

18 White House and the Department of Homeland Security had 

19 with media's - they clarified that everyone is now a 

20 priority. 

21 There are no longer any priorities: whether 

22 you've been convicted of any crime, whether it's murder 

23 or whether it's street vending, whether you have been 

24 charged with a crime, even if you were charged for 

25 mistaken identity. 

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1 We live in a country where our Constitution 

2 protects everyone and demands that everyone is innocent 

3 until proven guilty. But this administration is saying, 

4 no, that does not matter for immigrants. If you've been 

5 charged with a crime, you are now a priority for 

6 deportation. 

7 This administration also says, if you have 

8 committed an act that could be interpreted to be a crime. 

9 Just think at how Kafkaesque and dangerous that is: you 

10 have committed a crime, or you committed some kind of act 

11 that could be interpreted as a crime. 

12 And then yesterday in a footnote they said the 

13 guidance from November of 2014 that protects you as 

14 citizen parents of children, that's going to be dealt 

15 with in a future guidance. Our understanding is that 

16 this administration is also prioritizing parents of u.s. 

17 citizen children. They are now equal game. 

18 DACA, as Anthony mentioned, we have no 

19 guarantee that DACA will -- actually, in fact, the draft 

20 executive order terminates DACA. 

21 We also have no guarantee that all of the 

22 priorities and guidances that have been put in place 

23 because of the hard work of people in this room and 

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24 across the country under the Bush administration and to 

25 the Obama administrations so that ICE cannot conduct 

1 raids in sensitive locations. 

2 What are sensitive locations? They are our 

3 churches and temples; they are our health clinics, our 

4 schools, our courts. There is no indication that that 

s 

6 

continues to be on the books any more. 

All of the guidances have been rescinded by 

31 

7 this administration. Travel and Muslim ban - fortunately 

8 the courts are serving as a firewall. 

9 We at National Immigration law Center have sued 

10 both, along with our partners at the International 

11 Refugee Assistance Project, ACLU and Yale. That was the 

12 initial lawsuit at -- with Mr. Darweesh and Mr. Alshawi 

13 over at JFK, including everybody who was detained at 

14 airports. We separately have filed a lawsuit against the 

15 entire executive order in Maryland, but that is being 

16 rewritten. 

17 We, in any moment now, can, at least for the 

18 next few hours or tomorrow, expect to see the revised 

19 travel ban and Muslim ban. They are not stopping there. 

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20 And so I will close by saying that we at the 

21 National Immigration Law Center are committed to working 

22 with every single one of you. 

23 And I say every single one of you because we 

24 need everyone in the room. We need the media. This is 

25 an administration that believes in alternative facts. 

1 Yesterday on that call they said, this is 

2 nothing different. The community is the one that's 

3 its notion of mass deportation is a figment of the 

4 imagination of communities. This is what this 

5 administration said yesterday to the media on call 

6 explaining what the new deportation memo. 

7 So it is the media's job to hold them 

32 

8 accountable and to speak truth to power. It is the job 

9 of philanthropy that is hosting this, the California 

10 Endowment, and private sector and the public sector. 

11 It is our job as advocates and organizers, the 

12 community leaders, to hold this administration 

13 accountable and to work with our local elected officials 

14 to ensure that our Constitution and the rights enshrined 

15 in the Constitution continue to protect all of our 

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16 residents, all of our communities members, all of our 

17 family members. 

18 So I thank you again, Senator Harris, for your 

19 commitment to working with us because we are going to 

20 lose loved ones. We already are losing loved ones and we 

21 need to ensure that we try to prevent as much harm as 

22 possible. We'll do that through the courts but we must 

23 also do that through the halls of Congress and the state 

24 legislatures and local elected officials and in our 

25 communities. Gracias. 

33 

1 SENATOR HARRIS: Gracias. 

2 I'd like that the panel will have a discussion 

3 and I'd like to kick it off with a couple of questions. 

4 And I'll start with you, Sheriff, but I would 

5 like that also, through this process, this conversation, 

6 that we have in the record information that we're giving 

7 people who are concerned that they may be caught up in 

8 this, and what information we can give them that is 

9 helpful to them, in addition to articulating, obviously, 

10 all of our concerns. 

11 so, Sheriff McDonnell, I read a study that 

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12 indicated that there was a questionnaire for Latinos in 

13 California. And the response was that 40 percent of the 

14 respondents said they would not report a crime against 

15 themselves for fear that they would be deported or they'd 

16 be asked about a family member who was not documented; 

17 because as we know, and it has been mentioned, we have a 

18 lot of mixed-status families: meaning, within one 

19 household, or within one family, there are members of the 

20 family who are documented and others who are not 

21 documented. 

22 So my question to you, Sheriff, is what, as a 

23 career law enforcement official - you ran a police 

24 department, you run the largest sheriff's department 

25 within the country - what are your concerns about 

34 

1 unintended public safety consequences of these executive 

2 orders? 

3 SHERIFF MC DONNELL: Thank you. Great question, 

4 Senator. 

5 When I look at it, when I mentioned in my 

6 opening that trust is our currency, if people aren't 

7 willing to come forward as victims, as witnesses, then 

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8 the system that we have in place for criminal justice 

9 breaks down. So that is a critical component for us, to 

10 be successful is to have -- serve a populace that's 

11 willing to step up and to be able to say: hey, I was a 

12 victim of a crime and -- or: I was aware of a crime and I 

13 want to stand up and be able to raise my right hand and 

14 testify, how to hold people accountable for their 

15 actions. 

16 The criminal element in our communities use the 

17 fear and the anxiety that's in the immigrant communities 

18 against us, against the victims in an effort to be able 

19 to do what they want. 

Many of our gang members frequently will tell 

21 people: hey, don't call the police. You'll be deported. 

22 And they use that leverage to be able to do what it is 

23 they want to do and prey on the most vulnerable in our 

24 communities. 

25 So our goal is to be able to get out there and 

35 

1 be very clear on what we do and what we don't do. And 

2 we're there for the people that we serve. Our focus is 

3 on crime prevention, crime control and dealing with the 

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4 challenges that people face. We are not an arm of 

5 immigration, and so we want to be very clear about that. 

6 I had the opportunity to meet last week with 

7 the Consul General of Mexico here in Los Angeles; and 

8 we're moving forward to be able to try and do something 

9 together that -- where we can, on Spanish-speaking 

10 television, particularly, to be able to talk to people 

11 and to ease that level of anxiety that we've seen and 

12 hopefully be able to take a leadership role in that. 

13 And I think what we do here in Los Angeles 

14 could well be replicated in cities around the country. 

15 SENATOR HARRIS: So you are seeing a level of 

16 anxiety on the streets as a result of these orders? 

17 SHERIFF MC DONNELL: A level of anxiety, 

18 anecdotally, when we looked, and we did, at the number of 

19 crime reports in -- particularly in our immigrant 

20 communities, we have not seen a decrease, we have seen an 

21 increase, in fact. So that leads us to believe that what 

22 we're doing here locally is having a positive impact, and 

23 that people are still willing to come forward and be part 

24 of the system. 

25 SENATOR HARRIS: And what would your recommendation 

36 

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1 be for your colleagues around the country in terms of how 

2 they should be responding to the anxiety in their 

3 communities to the extent that it will have an impact on 

4 the public safety of their jurisdiction? 

5 SHERIFF MC DONNELL: I think a lot of them are doing 

6 it. I was last week in D.C. for a meeting with major 

7 county sheriffs and major city chiefs. And we met with 

8 some of the -- some of the representatives of the new 

9 administration. And we're very clear about what our 

1e concerns were, what our challenges are, and what we see 

11 as the best path for moving forward. 

12 And I think people -- I think people would be 

13 surprised at the belief and the feeling of major city 

14 chiefs, major county sheriffs, that as we move forward 

15 our primary focus is, as I just said, is on protecting 

16 the people that are in our jurisdictions. 

17 And as we move forward we have to do what, in a 

18 way of -- by means of partnership with the communities 

19 that we serve. And that we can only be successful if we 

20 eliminate the anxiety and the fear that many have about 

21 coming forward and being part of the solution. 

22 SENATOR HARRIS: My final question for you for now: 

23 Are there best practices around how you can train your 

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24 deputies, your officers, so that they work on this 

25 relationship of trust that you so rightly prioritized; 

37 

1 and what are those best practices that can be shared with 

2 other departments around the country? 

3 SHERIFF MC DONNELL: I think with transparency, a 

4 term that we hear all too frequently now but one that I 

5 think is very applicable, is to basically come out and 

6 talk to the public, to be able to say: Here is what your 

7 expectations can be; here are our expectations. 

8 We need to work together. We need to be able 

9 to do so in a way where we're sharing information, we're 

1e able to work together on solutions rather than just the 

11 symptoms that we see in urban America, in particular. 

12 So I think it's setting the bar high, holding 

13 our people to a very high standard, but also holding the 

14 expectations we have of the community to work with us, to 

15 be able to get some long-lasting solutions to deal with 

16 the underlying problems. 

17 And we talk about the philosophy of community 

18 policing, which is partnership primarily and problem 

19 solving, and to be able to do that together, we have to 

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20 do it from a position of trust. 

21 SENATOR HARRIS: And then I'd like to ask Kenny, 

22 what impact has the executive order had on your workforce 

23 as well as, perhaps, your clients? Have you seen any 

24 impact? 

25 KENNY SALAS: Absolutely. And I'll be fully 

38 

1 transparent. So our -- as I think about immigrants, we 

2 primarily target Latino-owned businesses, just for 

3 contextualization. And immediately after the election of 

4 Trump and after the executive order related to 

5 immigration, you know, the amount of applications we got 

6 in January was about 1,200; that plummeted 30 percent as 

7 we look at the amount of applications we received in 

8 February. 

9 And why is that? It's, at the end of the day, 

10 what pushes people to innovate. Right? You don't have 

11 to really dig too deep. It's the confidence that you can 

12 invest in your business and have a certainty that your 

13 rights are protected. 

14 And if I would also piggyback on the concept of 

15 trust that we've been discussing; to share a statistic 

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16 again, focused on Latino-owned businesses, there are --

17 currently there are 4.3 million Latino-owned businesses 

18 in the United States. They represent currently about 

19 $668 billion in revenue they contribute to the U.S. 

20 economy. 

21 Now, if we look at the average size of these 

22 businesses, they're about $156,000 in revenue. That's 

23 one quarter of the size of non-Latino-owned businesses. 

24 Why do I mention that? One of the reasons -- there's 

25 several reasons why they are smaller, but one reason that 

39 

1 you can argue is they under-index in their ability to 

2 access capital, and capital is in many ways a driver for 

3 growth. 

4 Why do they under-index in accessing capital? 

5 Again, one assumption is lack of trust. Right? It boils 

6 down to the lack of trust in our institutions to help 

7 this group. Right? 

8 And that is -- and to circle back at the 

9 question, this is just making it worse, and just the 

10 numbers speak for themselves, which is why, you know, 

11 we've taken a very strong position in helping this 

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12 community. 

13 SENATOR HARRIS: Thank you. 

14 

15 

Anthony, in this conversation we sometimes lose 

sight of the impact on the Asian and the API community in 

16 terms of the number of immigrants. 

17 Can you talk a little bit about that piece of 

18 it and which of the various Asian and API countries we're 

19 seeing the executive order perhaps have the most impact? 

20 ANTHONY NG: Yes. I think in terms of the impact of 

21 the executive orders, like the Asian-American and Pacific 

22 Islander community, is very diverse. Right? We 

23 definitely see a lot of the executive orders attacking 

24 Southeast Asian communities who are the most criminalized 

25 within Asian-American communities. 

40 

1 And I think, just a lot of the DACA recipients 

2 coming from the Philippines, Korea -- the attack on 

3 family immigration. Right? And how that's been a 

4 pivotal, pivotal piece of the growth of Asian-American 

5 community is because we're able to migrate through family 

6 immigration, or even the attacks on our Muslim 

7 communities. Right? Many Asian-Americans are Muslims. 

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8 Right? So when Muslims are under attack, Asian-Americans 

9 are under attack. 

10 I think we see the flurry of different 

11 executive orders, it's going to have varying degrees of 

12 impact. Whether it's the public -- the leaked memos and 

13 public benefits. Right? How that's going to impact the 

14 ability of low-income immigrants to be able to support 

15 themselves and be able to -- to feel that they are able 

16 to survive day-to-day. Right? 

17 Or even using that against folks who are 

18 wanting to bring their family members over. Right? 

19 Whether it's high school workers who have family members 

20 that they want to bring over here to the United States 

21 and we're targeting, like immigrants from different 

22 aspects: that's going to impact the way immigrants are 

23 coming to the United States, wanting to come to the 

24 United States or wanting to be in the United States. 

25 Right? 

41 

1 The executive orders definitely will continue 

2 to create fear in various communities, whether it's fear 

3 of calling local law enforcement when we see this 

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4 administration wanting to utilize the law enforcement as 

5 immigration agent. I think that it's really great to 

6 hear the Sheriff say he wants to ensure that trust is 

7 building. 

8 And one way you can do that, Sheriff, is 

9 supporting the California Values Act SB 54 and 58 31 

10 which is a conflict to those that we see are in the 

11 state. 

12 SENATOR HARRIS: Tell us about those. 

13 ANTHONY NG: SB 54 will be simply a clear line 

14 between state resources and not allow any of those 

15 resources to go for immigration enforcement, which I 

16 think is very -- very, very clear-cut. I think it makes 

17 sense to my mom, to other folks that we've talked about. 

18 Right? 

19 And SB 31 relates to the creation -- or 

20 prevents state and local funding from being utilized in 

21 the creation of a Muslim registry or any kind of 

22 registry -- I'm sorry. Right? 

23 I think a lot of the fear that we see in the 

24 community are being manifested in policies that our 

25 elected officials shows both at the state, at local 

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1 levels, and the Sheriff, can really push forward. 

2 SENATOR HARRIS: Angelica, Anthony mentions a really 

3 important subsegment of the population we've been 

4 speaking of, Asian Muslims. 

5 What are we doing in terms of what resources 

6 are available to them, and are there any unique issues? 

7 Is there any way that this is impacting that subset of 

8 these communities that we should talk about and highlight 

9 as this point of education, public education? 

10 And then, also, can you talk a little bit about 

11 what you are experiencing in terms of the executive order 

12 that will double the size of the employees of DHS? I 

13 think it's going to be 10,000 new ICE officers and then 

14 five thousand new CBP, customs and border patrol 

15 enforcement officers. 

16 And I know that the current number of staff 

17 there is 7,000. So to increase it by 15,000, not to a 

18 total of 15,000 but seven plus 15, is obviously going to 

19 present, I think, certain challenges in terms of the 

20 standards by which people will be employed and the 

21 vetting that will take place to bring those folks on. 

22 ANGELICA SALAS: I think that the first answer to 

23 your question around Asian Muslims - I think the first 

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24 thing that CHIRLA is doing is partnering with 

25 organizations like Asians Advancing Justice, like CAIR 

43 

1 Los Angeles, Counsel of American Islamic Relations, the 

2 Southern California Islamic Center, different groups, so 

3 that we're working in partnership and doing the work 

4 together. 

5 I think it's really important that as part of 

6 this conversation we also talk about the need to continue 

7 to work with law enforcement around the reporting of hate 

8 crimes and hate incidents. 

9 Many times the attacks don't just begin --

10 don't end up as hate crimes, but they are hate incidents 

11 and hate -- and what I would just say, this sense of 

12 feeling not welcome and not caring; that's an important 

13 element to bring to this conversation. 

14 I think that the other piece is really to fight 

15 to have refugee status and also to have -- to be honored, 

16 to honor our values in this country, which basically says 

17 there is freedom of religion. 

18 And I think that we have to stand firmly in not 

19 allowing our immigration laws to suddenly be 

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20 determined -- or who gets -- who is allowed to come in on 

21 a visa based solely on your religion. 

22 And so I'm so thankful for NILC, for the ACLU, 

23 folks who are here in this room who actually put this 

24 through the courts) because I think we all have to stand 

25 firmly united in that front around the enforcement and 

44 

1 the doubling of ICE agents and also border patrol. 

2 To give you context, a lot of this doubling 

3 ignores the fact that ICE and CBP personnel have already 

4 doubled. Since 2001, after 9/11, the border patrol went 

5 from 10,700 agents to 21,364, one of the largest 

6 enforcement arms in this nation. 21,000 border patrol 

7 agents. And they're asking to add an additional 5,000. 

8 It took it was -- since 2001 to the present, 

9 border patrol has been doubled. They're trying to, in 

10 one year, literally, maybe even months, trying to bring 

11 forward individuals who are -- to bring them into border 

12 patrol. 

13 And I actually want to really -- Andrea 

14 Guerrero, who works with the Alliance for San Diego who 

15 has done phenomenal work, is here with us. And she knows 

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16 the kind of abuse that happens at border in our border 

17 regions, in our border communities because of ill-trained 

18 officers, because of officers who are not held 

19 accountable and officers who literally believe that 

20 they're above the Constitution of the United States. 

21 That is happening now. And so when I see 

22 additional forces at the border patrol, I am just very 

23 concerned for what we will see with our southern border 

24 regions. 

25 The other is ICE. So ICE right now has almost 

45 

1 close to $6 billion annual budget. And here we want to 

2 double to 10,000 agents to go up -- to, again, to 

3 participate in the rounding up, the detention, the 

4 arresting of individuals. 

5 Again I'm very concerned both because of our 

6 tax dollars being spent in this way but also that I 

7 want -- and this is what we tell our community, you are 

8 protected by the Constitution. You are protected. If 

9 you live in the United States, irrespective of your 

10 immigration status, you are protected by the 

11 Constitution. 

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12 So what we want to make sure is that 

13 individuals understand that they have a responsibility to 

14 abide by the law of the -- our current immigration laws 

15 that have certain safeguards, but also our Constitution. 

16 And my concern with the doubling so quickly of ICE 

17 personnel is that they won't be trained properly. 

18 And anybody in law enforcement knows that you 

19 must train well because if you don't train officers that 

20 then they will do what they will do anyway, you know, on 

21 the ground. And even if there are policies, et cetera, 

22 they won't follow them. 

23 And the final piece is, this is my biggest 

24 concern. So between CBP and ICE right now we have close 

25 to a $20 billion annual budget. More personnel than many 

46 

1 of our Federal -- other Federal law enforcement agencies 

2 combined. And I want to know is, when they're talking 

3 about a force multiplier, just for Sheriff McDonnell, to 

4 let us know, what is your budget? 

5 And it seems to me that they have quite a bit 

6 of resources, so to demand that our local law enforcement 

7 with limited resources also do their job I think is 

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8 atrocious. And we should actually feel 

9 should condemn that. 

you know, we 

10 But I'm most concerned for the kind of 

11 treatment that our immigrant community will be -- what 

12 they are going to feel when they're encountering ICE 

13 officers: just the lack of respect, the lack of 

14 professionalism that we're seeing, because we're seeing 

15 more aggressive -- a more aggressive tone in their 

16 actions. 

17 A more -- I would say even the lack of 

18 communication is something that we're very disheartened 

19 with, because we might disagree - over many, many years 

20 we've disagreed as to their purpose and our purpose; but 

21 one thing that we've always felt is at least 

22 communication was forthcoming, and that is something 

23 we're not seeing. 

24 SENATOR HARRIS: I'm going to ask that a couple of 

25 the folks on this panel, including you, and perhaps 

1 Sheriff, you, as well, that you would submit for the 

2 record, and for me, any recommendations you have about 

3 what we will recommend to ICE that they do regarding 

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4 training these new officers they're going to bring on, 

5 because they will bring them on. 

6 And we know that we have cultivated in 

7 Los Angeles and in California, I say with bravado, some 

8 of the best training techniques for law enforcement in 

9 the country. So I welcome and invite you to share that 

1e with me in my office, so that as this starts to happen we 

11 can at least -- we can ensure that there will be some 

12 base level of standard on training. 

13 And let's talk a little bit about the legal 

14 assistance piece. 

15 

16 

Marielena, what are you seeing as the 

challenges in terms of the calls that you're getting, 

17 questions you're getting about the executive orders and 

18 what do we need to clear up about any confusion or 

19 misinformation about legal rights? 

2(3 MARIELENA HINCAPIE: So, very important questions. 

21 So like everyone else in the room, and of 

22 course all the panelists, we at National Immigration Law 

23 Center have been overwhelmed. Like, we're not getting 

24 calls just from immigrants and immigrant advocates and 

25 allies, but also local arid state elected officials around 

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1 the country, from Congressman, Senators, from health care 

2 providers, pediatricians. 

3 I have a meeting on Monday with the leadership 

4 of the American Academy of Pediatricians because of what 

5 they're seeing among their membership. Educators, right? 

6 Just really be the number of -- this new world order 

7 in which we're in is completely taxing every part of our 

8 society; every part of our society is being impacted by 

9 what is being proposed and soon to be implemented by this 

10 administration. 

11 Fortunately, we've also seen some of the silver 

12 lining. Right? We saw the beauty of the power of 

13 We-The-People at airports a couple of weeks ago. Right? 

14 Where just average, everyday people said, "I'm going to 

15 volunteer. This cannot be happening in our country." 

16 So the number of law students; the number of 

17 law firms, private; both large law firms as well as just 

18 individual attorneys, some with immigration experience, 

19 some with not. That's requiring many of our 

20 organizations to work together to train attorneys so that 

21 we can expand. 

22 We're also, again) a number of the groups here 

23 are working on creating rapid response networks for raids 

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24 so that we're prepared and we can match individuals. So 

25 if there is deportation that somebody gets caught up in, 

1 that there is representation. 

2 Most importantly, though, we want to try to 

3 prevent that, the front end. So the organizing, the 

4 know-your-rights education is all really critical. 

49 

5 CMany of our organizations at the national level 

6 worked on a centralized website, which is 

7 www.informedimmigrant.com, which is like a clearing house 

8 of all the know-your-rights information. 

9 And also it links, based on people's zip code 

10 anywhere in the country, people can find access to a 

11 referral: the local organization that has Board of BIA 

12 accredited reps for lawyers of either low bono or 

13 pro bono lawyers. 

14 So there's a lot to be done, but the reality is 

15 the resources for all of our organizations are really 

16 limited. And we're all stretched beyond capacity. 

17 So needing to really think very creatively, and 

18 even the tech industry is helping us to think through, 

19 like what are the apps and what are the different 

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20 platforms that can help expand capacity to reach people 

21 so that they have the informationj because, as many of us 

22 have said already, the Constitution does protect all of 

23 us, regardless of where we were born, regardless of how 

24 much money we have, our race, our religion, et cetera. 

25 So we want to make sure that people are 

50 

1 empowered with information, that they're empowered to 

2 take action to protect themselves. And then if people 

3 are detained or when people are detained, that they get 

4 access to counsel. 

5 You have introduced - at the Senate level, 

6 right? Federal level - a bill on access to counsel here 

7 in California. We have a bill giving universal 

8 representation at the local county level. 

9 We need to make sure that those bills all get 

10 through the finish line, that they get signed, that the 

11 resources are there to make sure that our community 

12 members have a right to an attorney, which is the only 

13 way they're going to be able to fight their deportation 

14 with them, even in this new context that we're in. 

15 SENATOR HARRIS: Can you share with us some of the 

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16 frequently asked questions and what are the responses? 

17 MARIELENA HINCAPIE: Do I have a right to an 

18 attorney? There is misinformation out there about 

19 whether or not immigrants, one, are they protected by the 

26 Constitution? Do they have any rights if they're 

21 undocumented or not? What rights do they have vis-a-vis 

22 law enforcement? Vis-a-vis immigration agents or border 

23 patrol? Is that any different? 

24 So, you know, what are their rights at home 

25 versus on the street or in the workplace? So a lot of 

51 

1 questions like that. And then now we're also getting, 

2 because of some of the, as Anthony mentioned, the leaked 

3 drafts of executive orders out there with respect to 

4 public charge and that being a deport -- or reason for 

5 someone to be deported if they have access or benefits, 

6 even as to their u.s. citizen children. 

7 So there's a lot of chaos and fear right now, 

8 which I actually think a lot of that is intentional. 

9 Part of the strategy at the Federal level is coming from 

16 this administration to create such fear and chaos as the 

11 attrition through enforcement strategy that was tried at 

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12 the state level in Arizona, Georgia, Alabama, Indiana, 

13 Utah, South carolina, et cetera - all of which we were 

14 successfully able to get them struck down through the 

15 courts. They're trying this at the Federal level now. 

16 SENATOR HARRIS: So, thank you for mentioning the 

17 first bill that I proposed as a Senator is a bill that we 

18 are getting sponsors for now. And it is a bill that 

19 would create a right for immigrants to have access to 

2e counsel. 

21 After the executive orders came out, and 

22 regarding refugees, I got calls that Saturday through the 

23 night from lawyers who were at Dulles or SFO or LAX, 

24 literally pretty much on the other side of the door where 

25 refugees were detained and without being provided counsel 

52 

1 and when requesting counsel were denied. 

2 So this bill will create a right so that if 

3 that person requests counsel they will be granted 

4 counsel. Government doesn't have to pay for it but 

5 government cannot deny them access to counsel. 

5 So I look forward to everyone helping us get 

7 that through and convincing everyone that it's just the 

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8 right thing to do and is reflective of the values of who 

9 we are as a country and it's, just on general purpose 

10 principles, something that is reflective of the values in 

11 our Constitution. 

12 But tell us, if you will, what are the three 

13 top questions that you're receiving about what this means 

14 for families and what are the answers to those three 

15 questions? 

16 MARIELENA HINCAPIE: So I'll start from of the 

17 National Immigration Law Center, this may be different 

18 for different organizations. I mean, we definitely 

19 DACA is a big question. DACA and DAPA. Right? If I 

20 have DACA will I be able to continue with DACA? Have 

21 this temporary protection from deportation, or will I be 

22 deported? 

23 The answer is that right now DACA continues to 

24 exist. They have not rescinded the guidance. They have 

25 indicated yesterday, I think, President Trump got caught 

53 

1 loving Dreamers. I won't editorialize on that. 

2 But the answer is, yes, people with DACA 

3 continue to be protected. 

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We are not -- you know, we are asking 

individuals who would be eligible for DACA to first 

6 consult with an organization or an attorney before 

7 considering applying, definitely for the first time; that 

8 I think is a huge, huge risk. And even renewals at this 

9 time, but we want to make sure that people have 

10 individualized assessments about that. 

11 With DAPA, which is the parents of U.S. 

12 citizens or lawful permanent residents, this was the 

13 change of policy that President Obama announced back in 

14 November 2014, which never went into effect, as folks 

15 know, unfortunately because of a lawsuit filed by Texas 

16 and 25 other states. They have not officially rescinded 

17 that program. 

18 In the past under President Obama parents of 

19 U.S. citizens were not a priority. Unfortunately, our 

20 read at the National Immigration Law Center is parents of 

21 U.S. citizens are, just as much as everyone else, now a 

22 priority. 

23 And, again, the importance of making sure that 

24 individuals know that they have a right under the 

25 Constitution to remain silent; that they have a right not 

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1 to answer questions that will incriminate them, including 

2 ~~hat country you are from. 

3 By admitting that I am from Columbia, then I am 

4 now admitting that I'm not a U.S. citizen. Making sure 

5 people know not to sign any documents without the advice 

6 of counsel. 

7 We saw at the airports lawful, permanent 

8 residents being coerced into signing Form 4407, which is 

9 abandoning their permanent residency. And it's just 

10 unheard of and un-American and unlawful that that's 

11 happening to people with green cards. 

12 So especially for anybody in detention, 

13 absolutely do not sign any document without legal 

14 counsel. If you are confronted with an immigration 

15 agent, ask for a warrant. They're a Federal agent, they 

16 have to identify themselves as Federal agents. They must 

17 provide a warrant for arrest or a search warrant. 

18 If they don't have that, you don't have to let 

19 them in. So there are many ways that people can protect 

20 themselves to try to prevent the detention to begin with; 

21 and then definitely there are additional rights once 

22 they're detained, like access to counsel, although not at 

23 government expense. 

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24 SENATOR HARRIS: Angelica. 

25 ANGELICA SALAS: So everything that Marielena said 

55 

1 is absolutely the similar questions that we're receiving. 

2 I think the other major question, and I know 

3 Felipe Carrera from the Mexican Consulate is here, as 

4 well. But the question about how do I -- what do I do 

5 with my children? So the issue of families, really 

6 thinking about the well-being of their children if 

7 they're detained and deported. 

8 So how do I fill out a guardianship form? What 

9 will happen to my children in terms of are they going to 

10 be taken by social services? What will happen to them? 

11 A lot of questions about the well-being of their 

12 children. And then I would also say that the other piece 

13 is individuals who are coming forward who actually have 

14 applications pending. 

15 So, for example, I mean, part of what in my 

16 opening remarks I talked about UCIS, which is the 

17 United States Citizenship and Immigration Services. So 

18 many individuals who are undocumented actually are in 

19 process of legalizing their status; but because there's 

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20 such a backlog, individuals obviously are waiting and 

21 waiting inside the country, so -- and outside the 

22 country. So they're asking, you know, what will happen, 

23 especially for those here? What happens if I actually 

24 have a petition pending? Will I have to be forced to 

25 abandon that? What will happen? 

56 

1 So a lot of very specific immigration questions 

2 because they have that. But I think definitely I would 

3 say of all the questions, the children - the question 

4 about children and what to do in case they are detained 

5 or picked up- I think would be the highest on people's 

6 radar. 

7 SENATOR HARRIS: And what have the answers been to 

8 those questions? 

9 ANGELICA SALAS: So what we have done is we help the 

10 families. So the first thing is, maybe to step back, is 

11 we tell people prepare to stay. Fight to stay in this 

12 country. This is -- when you have deep roots, your kids 

13 are here, you've given your life to this country so fight 

14 to stay in this country. 

15 What do you do? First, if you're detained, 

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16 exercise your right to ask for legal counsel. Do not --

17 everything that Marielena said - do not sign anything. 

18 And before you are ever detained, connect with 

19 an organization or a legal representative that you can --

20 that your family can call immediately. 

21 In that preparation we're also asking 

22 individuals to fill guardianship documents so that they 

23 know who their children are going to be released to, 

24 whether at school; and to really have a conversation 

25 within the family to talk about if immigration comes to 

1 our home or to our work, what would be the steps that 

2 we'd follow? 

3 And one of the main things -- so at CHIRLA 

57 

4 we're helping them fill out guardianship forms. I know 

5 the Mexican Consultate is helping that with -- helping 

6 individuals with that process, as well. And to, just to 

7 really have outlined the to-do's, what they would do. 

8 And also to save some money, because the other 

9 problem that we have with mass deportation is that 

10 individuals are being picked up in the morning and 

11 dropped off maybe -- especially from Mexico; by evening 

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12 they're in Tijuana, but they are penniless; they have 

13 nothing. Sometimes they don't even have a coat with 

14 them. And so it's very important for families to have 

15 some way to transfer information to their familyJ to 

16 their loved ones. 

17 And then also to know if, once they are 

18 deported, there are organizations like Casa Immigrante 

19 and others where they can connect; because literally, 

20 just being dropped off on the other side of the border 

21 with nothing is one of the most horrendous things. 

22 Just so that they understand what -- that 

23 families really take seriously the plan. The plan to 

24 stayJ but then all the things that they need to know in 

25 order to safeguard their well-being. 

1 SENATOR HARRIS: We have about five more minutes 

2 left in the forum. I'd love to take questions from 

3 anybody in the audience. 

4 Yes. 

5 ALEJANDRA VALLES: Hi. 

6 SENATOR HARRIS: Hi. 

7 ALEJANDRA VALLES: Good morning. My name is 

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8 Alejandra Valles and I represent 4s,eee janitors, 

9 security officers and airport workers across California. 

10 And with your leadership, and all of the 

11 leadership here in California, we've been able to fight 

12 for like -- you know, against -- well, wage staff laws 

13 and laws that emanate from the night shift and really 

14 bring the huge underground economy that we have in 

15 California above float. 

16 Right now one of the bills, and really a 

17 shining light at the end of the tunnel in California, is 

18 the leadership that carwash workers, day laborers, 

19 janitors, many of the workers in our organization have 

20 been leading with SB 54. 

21 So my question is, for the panel is: Are you 

22 or your organizations signing on to endorse SB 54? 

23 And, Senator Harris, anything you can do to 

24 help elevate that and lift that up and endorse that and 

25 be a champion for workers on that end would be really 

59 

1 helpful. 

2 SENATOR HARRIS: Marielena. Yes. 

3 MARIELENA HINCAPIE: Absolutely. We're following 

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4 SEIU's leadership and all of the workers and other united 

5 workers organizations. 

6 SENATOR HARRIS: Any other questions? 

7 ANDREA GUERRERO: Yes. 

8 SENATOR HARRIS: Yes. 

9 ANDREA GUERRERO: I really appreciate all of your 

10 comments. I was especially touched by Angelica and 

11 Marielena. 

12 But I wanted to ask you, Senator, if there's 

13 anything that we can do to be proactive? I know we're 

14 concentrating so much on being reactive. 

15 But I was also reflecting on where we were in 

16 the 1970s and 1980s and remembering that we've been here 

17 before and we'll be here again unless we take proactive 

18 steps to change our immigration laws. Right? 

19 So in the absence of immigration reform we are 

20 in the position of asking for mercy because of an 

21 enforcement-only approach making use of laws that are on 

22 the books that Congress passed many years ago. Right? 

23 So, in my mind the way forward is is 

24 twofold. One, to create pathways for legal status for 

25 the many individuals who are here unlawfully because 

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1 there were no pathways. But, two, is to rein in the 

2 powers of immigration agents who currently have 

3 extraordinary and egregious powers to do things that 

4 police aren't allowed to do. 

5 And I hear you when you say the Constitution 

6 protects us all, but I can tell you that immigration 

7 agents have powers without warrant. Those might not 

8 be -- though we have never successfully challenged those 

9 in the courts. And -- because there's such deference to 

10 Congress around immigration laws. 

11 So are there things -- is there a willingness 

12 in Congress to move forward, some proactive measures to 

13 create pathways and also rein in these extraordinary and 

14 egregious powersj because even if we get immigration 

15 reform, we're still going to have these extraordinary and 

16 egregious powers that are rounding up our communities. 

17 SENATOR HARRIS: Well put. 

18 So I'll say a few things. There's no question 

19 in my mind that we have to be proactive as well as 

20 reactive where necessary and when necessary and as 

21 swiftly as possible. 

22 Proactive. We have got to keep fighting for 

23 comprehensive immigration reform. We can't let that fall 

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24 off the table because we're so busy trying to figure out 

25 who's been picked up and where are they right now. We 

1 have to do all of those things. We have to do all of 

2 them. 

61 

3 So in our messaging, which is a part of this, 

4 let's stay with our messaging about "You wouldn't have to 

5 deal with this if we actually passed comprehensive 

6 immigration reform, and this is what that looks like." 

7 The point that has been made by many people at 

8 this table about the economic impact of not only these 

9 executive actions; Angelica mentioned $285 billion is 

10 what it will cost us to deport over a five-year period. 

11 Extraordinary amount of money. 

12 The budget for the officers that will need to 

13 be hired to do that. Extraordinary amount of money. 

14 The economic benefit that immigrants bring in 

15 terms of the businesses that they create and the taxes 

16 they pay. Extraordinary benefit. 

17 so I would urge us to, as much as anything, 

18 always push in this environment for comprehensive 

19 immigration reform. Let's not stop talking about that. 

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20 Let's be forceful about it. Let's talk about the 

21 economic impact. 

22 And then let's also recognize that we have 

23 these three branches of government. And this is a moment 

24 in time, the history of our country, that is probably 

25 reinforcing the importance of remembering we have three 

62 

1 coequal branches of government. 

2 It's a moment in our history to remember that 

3 and to remember that the judiciary, we are a nation of 

4 laws. We respect the rule of law and a big part of this 

5 battle is going to be fought in courts, as we have seen, 

6 which is why there was a stay. 

7 And now the administration has to go back to 

B the drawing board and figure out what they're going to do 

9 with refugees, because the courts spoke up, because we 

10 are a nation of laws. 

11 So that highlights the importance of supporting 

12 the legal organizations and the nonprofit organizations 

13 that are fighting these battles in courtrooms. 

14 There is the piece about, the legislative 

15 piece, and that is about the comprehensive immigration 

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16 reform package. 

17 And then there is highlighting> the 

18 know, being most deferential -- well, I don't do that 

19 well; as deferential as I can - the unintended 

20 consequences, I'm going to say unintended consequences of 

21 these executive orders and highlighting what they mean in 

22 terms of basic principles. Like we all want public 

23 safety. We all want to know that victims will have their 

24 day in court. Right? 

25 We all want to know that people who commit 

63 

1 crimes which involve violence and pain, that they will 

2 suffer serious and severe and swift consequence. All of 

3 these things. 

4 But we're going to have to -- we're going to 

5 have to put equal priority and weight and energy and 

6 resolve into each of these components. And, again, let's 

7 just all remember, no matter how much somebody or anybody 

8 would like to have us forget: three coequal branches of 

9 government. 

10 I can take one more question. You are press? 

11 Not press? We'll take press afterwards. 

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12 CHRIS NEWMAN: I think everyone agrees that the 

13 election of Donald Trump constitutes a crisis for the 

14 country. But it's also opened up an opportunity. We're 

15 seeing all around the country a reinvigoration of 

16 sanctuary policies that delink police from immigration 

17 and enforcement. 

18 Many people have gone so far as to say this 

19 whole notion of deporting so-called felons, not families) 

20 is sort of our generation's super-predators. This idea 

21 that casts immigrants under a cloud of suspicion and 

22 putting them -- subject to double punishment. 

23 I would like to ask the Sheriff whether he 

24 believes that non-citizens have a right to rehabilitate 

25 themselves after they're incarcerated and after having 

64 

1 served their time. 

2 SHERIFF MC DONNELL: Sure. You know, I -- we 

3 don't -- as I mentioned in my opening, we don't focus on 

4 where somebody's from) what their immigration status is. 

5 In our custody, to the degree that we can 

6 provide that for people who are there longer term) we do 

7 have a lot of programs where we get people into 

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8 rehabilitation, drug treatment, deal with people with 

9 mental illness and try and help them as best we can. 

10 We also have -- trying to get people back on 

11 track; trying to be able to get people job skills so that 

12 when they get out they have a vehicle to be more 

13 successful than they were when they came in. 

14 So we don't have any focus on somebody's 

15 immigration status. Once they're in our custody, we try 

16 and do the best we can with the resources we have to work 

17 with. 

18 SENATOR HARRIS: I can actually speak to that 

19 because as Attorney General I reached out to the Sheriff 

20 and partnered with him on an initiative that's called 

21 Back on Track that we have been running out of the L.A. 

22 Sheriff's jails with residents who are there, getting 

23 them jobs and counseling and educational support, so that 

24 when they come out they can actually live a productive 

25 life, having paid for the crime that they committed and 

65 

1 wanting to give them a leg up instead of a handout. 

2 So, I do applaud your work in that regard, 

3 Sheriff. 

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4 We're going to close it out. And I'm just 

5 going to -- again, I want to thank everyone, and in 

6 particular our panelists because there's a lot of work 

7 that needs to be done and I know you all well enough, 

8 because I've been working with you for years, that you 

9 work around the clock tirelessly on behalf of people who, 

10 for the most part, never gonna know your name. You're 

11 working on behalf of people we may never meet. But it is 

12 important and good work, and I think it represents the 

13 best of who we are as a state. 

14 And I want to thank Bob Ross and California 

15 Endowment for, yet again, hosting community and leaders -

16 all of us - to be able to have a discussion that 

17 hopefully elevates public discourse around these trying 

18 times and increases public education and information. 

19 And we've got a lot more work to do, but I want 

20 to thank everybody for being here and for all that you do 

21 each day. 

22 Thank you. 

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(Ending 12:03 p.m.) 

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STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 

ss. 

5 I, WENDY SOBEL, CSR NO. 2341, A DEPOSITION 

6 NOTARY IN AND FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, DO HEREBY 

7 CERTIFY: 

8 

9 THAT THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT IS A TRUE 

10 RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS ON IMMIGRATION POLICY 

11 FORUM. 

12 

13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I HAVE HEREUNTO 

14 SUBSCRIBED MY NAME THIS 28TH DAY OF FEBRUARY, 2017. 

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STATE OF CALifORNIA 

COUNTY OF LOS ANGEI"ES 

ss. 

I, \~ENDY SOBEL, CSR NO. 2341, A DEPOSITION 

NOTI\RY IN AND FOR THE STAT£ OF CALIFORNIA, DO HEREBY 

CERTIFY: 

THAT THE FOREGOl:NG TRANSCRIPT IS A TRUE 

RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS ON HlMIGRATION POLICY 

FORUM. 

IN vHTNESS 'iiHEREOF, I HAVE HEREUNTO 

SUBSCRIBED MY NM'lE THIS 28TH DAY OF FEBRUARY 1 2017. 

6'7 
200 

Æ 

Febmary 21, 20!7 

United States Senator Kamala Harris 

SL, Suite 1748 

Los 900!2 

Honorable Senator Harris, 

On behalf of the 

for Hum.une !mmignnt Rights of Los 

l'N!cems and disappointments over the 

by the Department of Homeland Security's, 

the state of CalifOfllia, the Coalition 

(CH!RLA) would like to express our 

announced measures signed 

John 

Th(• Trump :\dministration ha~ ht.•en relentless and crud 

when it comes to measures. By 

themsehtes in dearing the 

children, workers. and 

those whose wntributions are well do<:un1euted. 

_\1oreover. the enforcement memos are a one size fits aU mass deportation 

approach and void fairness and justice. These guidelines represent an unlawfuL 

process and inhumane approach to remove undocumented immigrants living 

working in the United States. 

oppose these measures whkh threaten our families. hurt our 

stand in our nation's and values. \Ve 

millions of be:toming victims these inhumane 

mans.uur n::mcm needs leaders who can stand up to faimes:s and justice and fight back 

against thest: immoral policies, 

Should you have feel free to contact babel J. Sanchez at 

Sincerely, 

Angelica Salas 

Executive Director. CH!RLA