U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

31–447 WASHINGTON : 2018

PREVENTING SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN THE 

CONGRESSIONAL WORKPLACE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE 

ADMINISTRATION 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

NOVEMBER 14, 2017 

Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration 

( 

Available on the Internet: 

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/house/administration/index.html 


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COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION

GREGG HARPER, Mississippi, Chairman 

RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois, Vice Chairman 

BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia 

MARK WALKER, North Carolina 

ADRIAN SMITH, Nebraska 

BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia 

ROBERT A. BRADY, Pennsylvania, 

Ranking Member 

ZOE LOFGREN, California 

JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland 


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PREVENTING SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN THE 

CONGRESSIONAL WORKPLACE 

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2017 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room 

1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Gregg Harper [Chairman of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Harper, Davis, Comstock, Walker, 

Smith, Loudermilk, Brady, Lofgren, and Raskin. 

Also Present: Representatives Brooks and Speier. 

Staff Present: Sean Moran, Staff Director; Kim Betz, Deputy 

Staff Director/Policy and Oversight; Bob Sensenbrenner, General 

Counsel; Dan Jarrell, Legislative Clerk; Erin McCracken, Communications Director; Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director; Khalil 

Abboud, Minority Deputy Staff Director; Eddie Flaherty, Minority 

Chief Clerk; and Teri Morgan, Minority Deputy Staff Director/ 

Counsel. 

The CHAIRMAN. I now call to order the Committee on House Administration for purposes of today’s hearing, titled ‘‘Preventing Sexual Harassment in the Congressional Workplace.’’ 

The hearing record will remain open for 5 legislative days so 

Members may submit any materials they wish to be included. 

A quorum is present, so we may proceed. 

At the outset, I ask for unanimous consent the Committee on 

Ethics Chairwoman, Susan Brooks, and Ranking Member, Ted 

Deutch, be permitted to sit on the dais and question all the witnesses today. 

Without objection, that is approved. 

I also ask for unanimous consent that Representative Speier be 

afforded the opportunity to sit on the dais and question our second 

panel of witnesses. 

Without objection, so ordered. 

I would like to thank all of our witnesses for taking time out of 

their busy schedule to be with us today on this very serious issue. 

And I commend Speaker Ryan for bringing this important issue to 

the forefront and for tasking this committee to undertake a comprehensive review. Today’s hearing is a critical part of that review 

process. 

First and foremost, let me say that there is no place for sexual 

harassment in our society, period, and especially in Congress. This 

is an extremely important topic, and it will take all of us working 

together to effectively address this issue. I believe, as Members of 


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Congress, we must hold ourselves to an even higher standard, a 

standard that demonstrates that we are worthy of the trust placed 

on us by our constituents and the American people. 

The disturbing accounts of sexual harassment experienced by 

current and former Members, including one of our witnesses today, 

revealed that sexual harassment is a serious problem in our society, and Congress is not immune from this issue. It is no secret the 

culture on Capitol Hill is unique. While there are 441 employing 

offices in the House among Members and Representatives, we 

should all share the common goal of creating safe and effective 

work environments that are productive, collegial, and responsive to 

the needs of our staff, constituents, and the public. 

The personal accounts described by current and former colleagues and staff suggest that not every office is achieving this 

goal. These accounts dictate the need for a comprehensive review 

of the House’s policies and procedures, as well as the resources 

available as it relates to sexual harassment in the workplace. Currently, sexual harassment awareness training is not mandatory for 

Members and staff. There is also concern that victims of sexual 

harassment are not aware of the resources available to them. Some 

have criticized the process that currently exists to adjudicate 

claims of sexual harassment. 

Today, we will hear from two Members, one of whom was a victim of sexual harassment while a congressional staffer and the 

other who specialized in employment discrimination litigation, including sexual harassment cases, before his election to Congress. In 

addition, we will hear from representatives of the Office of Compliance and the Office of House Employment Counsel, two entities 

that are responsible for providing training and resources to Members and staff, among other services. 

The Office of Compliance is an independent agency established 

by the Congressional Accountability Act to administer and enforce 

the provisions of the act. While the Office of Compliance is responsible for educating and training Members, staff, and the public on 

workplace issues, there are individuals, like Representatives Speier 

and Holmes Norton, who have spoken publicly about the need for 

the Office of Compliance to do more. 

The Office of House Employment Counsel, located within the Office of the Clerk, provides training and resources for Members and 

chiefs of staff, as well as training for the entire office. In addition, 

the Office of House Employment Counsel represents employers in 

the Office of Compliance proceedings. 

Several bills and resolutions have been introduced in the House 

seeking changes to the process, many of which involve making 

training mandatory for all Members and staff. 

According to the Office of Compliance, and I quote: It is widely 

acknowledged that antidiscrimination and antiretaliation training 

for employees provides many benefits to the workplace. Education 

directly impacts employee behavior. A comprehensive training program continues to be the most effective investment an organization 

can make in reducing complaints and creating a more productive 

workforce. 

Now, I believe we need mandatory training—I think probably everyone here will agree—as well as a more organized and comVerDate Sep 11 2014 00:43 Sep 26, 2018 Jkt 031447 PO 00000 Frm 00004 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\HR\OC\A447.XXX A447

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prehensive approach to address sexual harassment in the congressional workplace. As I said at the beginning of my remarks, this 

hearing is just the first step in our review. I look forward to hearing from each of our witnesses today on both panels. 

Mr. Brady, I will now recognize you for the purposes of an opening statement. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, Mr. Chairman, 

thank you for calling this hearing today. 

The congressional workplace should have zero tolerance for sexual harassment and any kind of discrimination. That is why I was 

pleased to be one of the first sponsors of the Congresswoman from 

California’s resolution. Congresswoman Speier’s courage and her 

determination deserve the respect and attention of Members of 

Congress, and her plan deserves action. I thank her very much for 

being here today. 

The Congresswoman’s proposal would require mandatory training for Members and staff. It would also require the Office of Compliance to get back to us very quickly on additional improvements 

to their program. This bipartisan legislation is a first step, and the 

House should pass it immediately. I want to emphasize that this 

should be just a first step. 

I hope we can also look at ways to strengthen and clarify our dispute resolution process and other ways to support the Office of 

Compliance, including with additional money. I have supported additional appropriations for the Office of Compliance every year they 

have asked and this important agency worthy of our support. 

I thank our witnesses for being here today, and I am glad that 

Ms. Speier will be joining us on the dais after her panel discussion. 

I am also pleased the Ranking Member of the Ethics Committee, 

Mr. Deutch, will try to join so the Ethics Committee will have a 

role to play in holding all of us to the highest conduct. 

Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back the balance 

of my time and look forward to our witnesses’ testimony. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Brady. 

I now recognize Barbara Comstock for the purposes of an opening statement. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

In recent weeks, sexual harassment and sexual violence by powerful men have come to light as never before. People have named 

names, and there is a renewed recognition, rightfully, of this problem and the need for change of a culture that looks the other way 

because of who the offenders are. Whether it is Bill Cosby, Harvey 

Weinstein, Bill O’Reilly, Mark Halperin, Roger Ailes, Kevin Spacey, 

or one of our own, it is time to say: No more. 

I have been an intern in this body. I have been a staffer like our 

witness here today. I have been counsel on committee and now as 

a Member. So I particularly appreciate the opportunity for this 

hearing today. And I appreciate that we have already committed 

to mandatory sexual harassment training for all of the Members— 

emphasize Members—and staff. And I think we do have a consensus of the need to have improved training, training materials 

and practices, making sure we are getting better reporting, a better 

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veys or other types of things, but, most importantly, to protect the 

victims. I know we will be exploring that in weeks to come. 

We need to know more of examples of what is actually happening 

and making it easier for the victims to come forward. We know 

there are so many who are in the shadows or forgotten because 

their situations may have happened at a time where less attention 

was paid. 

Last night, I had the opportunity to talk to Dorena Bertussi, 

who, in 1988, filed the Hill’s first successful harassment complaint, 

30 years ago, against Representative Jim Bates of California. In a 

recent interview in Roll Call—and I hope you have seen that, if you 

haven’t read it—she noted how most—she had many women in her 

office who had the same experience, but only she and one other 

came forward. But she felt it was so important. In speaking with 

her and seeing how brave she had been—because this was 30 years 

ago—you could hear the pain still in her voice in telling that story. 

But you could also hear the strength and the resolve. And women 

need to hear that and know that we will be there to back them up. 

And, you know, and I think it is important we name names. The 

Hollywood rumors, all these things, people had heard these rumors 

for years. One of Roger Ailes’ victims was a friend of mine. I never 

knew this had been something that had happened to her until I 

read her story in The New York Times. And I knew it was true because I knew her, talked to her about it after. But I was here in 

the time of Bob Packwood, Charlie Wilson, and I was thinking 

some of the things—you know, Charlie Wilson said: You can teach 

them to type, but you can’t teach them to grow breasts. He used 

a more vulgar term. 

And I wanted to close with something that I just had somebody 

tell me recently. This is about a Member who is here now. I don’t 

know who it is. But somebody who I trust told me the situation. 

This Member asked a staffer to bring them over some materials 

to their residence. And the young staffer is a young woman, went 

there, and was greeted with a Member in a towel—it was a male— 

who then invited her in. At that point, he decided to expose himself. She left, and then she quit her job. She left. She found another 

job. But that kind of situation, what are we doing here for women 

right now who are dealing with somebody like that? 

So this is really a much more complex situation than I think— 

you know, we need to have more training, know about the violence 

that we are seeing in some of these—that are criminal. Like, we 

get people into the criminal system when you have a crime—I 

would argue, that probably is a crime in that situation—and have 

people know that. And then that we have a much better process 

so that that person doesn’t have to give up her career. 

I was listening to one of the victims of Mark Halperin, and she 

was talking about how she was very strong, left, didn’t do anything. But there were other women who left their desired profession altogether because of what had happened. And we can’t have 

that happen. 

So, Mr. Chairman, I really appreciate your giving us this opportunity. And I know we are going to have more hearings. I think it 

is important that we do that and that we hear more from the people who have been in the shadows. 


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Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentlelady yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren for 

purposes of an opening statement. 

Ms. LOFGREN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

There is no question that sexual harassment in the workplace, 

including Congress, must be addressed. And I want to thank Chairman Harper and Ranking Member Brady for today’s hearing on 

this important subject. 

And I want to thank the witnesses, Congressman Bradley Byrne, 

and Representative Jackie Speier for coming before us today to 

help us examine how we can make improvements to our policies 

and procedures for preventing sexual harassment as well as for 

handling complaints once they are filed. 

Now, Representative Speier’s resolution, the CEASE Act, calling 

for mandatory sexual harassment training, is a step in the right direction. But as she and I have discussed, it is not the end. We need 

to examine dispute processes at the Office of Compliance to make 

sure victims can expeditiously have their grievances heard. And I 

think this is especially important because sexual harassment is 

often about power. It is not just about sex. It is about abuse of 

power. And our hard-working staff and others need to have an advocate just as powerful on their behalf. 

Mandatory training is long overdue. The Office of Compliance 

has been recommending it for 20 years, and the Senate just unanimously passed a resolution mandating it last week. It seems to me 

if Senator Ted Cruz and Elizabeth Warren can agree, we should 

also be able to agree on our side of the building. The online training is just a small start. But study after study shows that in-person 

training is where you have the most progress in changing workforce behavior. We need to do a better job of advertising resources 

that are available, but we also need improvements in the process 

once people do make a complaint. 

I just want to make a special word about Congresswoman Jackie 

Speier. Years ago, she and I were staff compatriots. We worked on 

the Hill at the same time. She worked for Congressman Leo Ryan 

from the mid-peninsula, and I worked for Congressman Don 

Edwards just south of that district. It was a wild and crazy time 

in many ways in our history. We had the impeachment of Richard 

Nixon, the war, and the disruption and the like, but one of the 

things that Jackie has talked about now—and I give her so much 

credit—is the assault that she suffered. I think it is so important 

that she had the courage and the grace and dignity and grit to 

speak up about what happened to her. And I know that that has 

encouraged other people to step forward and take on and know 

that they can speak up too. 

So I just want to thank Jackie for being here today, for the lead 

that she has taken on this issue and so many others. She is a great 

lawyer, a terrific leader, and not afraid of a darn thing. 

So I thank you, Jackie, Congressman Byrne, and I yield back the 

balance of my time. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentlelady yields back. 

Anyone else on the Republican side wishing to be recognized for 

an opening statement? 


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I recognize Mrs. Brooks for 5 minutes for an opening. 

Mrs. BROOKS. Thank you, Chairman Harper and Ranking Member Brady. As Chairwoman of the House Ethics Committee, I am 

really very pleased to be a part of this hearing today. We know in 

the House Ethics Committee that the House does have problems 

with addressing both reported and unreported sexual harassment 

as just described by Representative Comstock. And the House Ethics Committee is committed to working with your committee to 

eliminate harassment that occurs through ensuring that our Members and staff are trained and have better training. And we need 

to ensure that we are protecting the victims of harassment when 

it does occur. 

Sexual harassment is strictly prohibited by our code of official 

conduct. Let me repeat that: Sexual harassment is strictly prohibited by the House’s code of official conduct and something that the 

House Ethics Committee takes very seriously. 

For background, at the House Ethics Committee, we have two 

separate functions as they relate to sexual harassment. First, we 

have an advice and education division. The attorneys in advice and 

education are trained when approached with a harassment issue to 

advise the person seeking advice to contact Office of Compliance. 

These discussions with our attorneys on our committee are strictly 

confidential, so I cannot report on the number of harassment instances raised with the committee. But I can report that the advice 

given is to educate the advice seeker on their options. 

The second function of our committee is to conduct investigations 

when allegations are made. And should someone be interested in 

initiating an investigation, they can contact the House Ethics Committee investigation division. 

The committee and I personally share this committee’s goal of 

protecting victims of harassment. I look forward to learning from 

this hearing, ways we can improve the House generally and how 

we can ensure that we take the lessons learned from today’s hearing and improve the House Ethics Committee’s process as well. 

And, in closing, I would like to just commend the three female 

Members here who have just shared and, as we have learned, all 

started as staffers. And it is very important—and I am just pleased 

to be a part of this today. I was not a staffer here on the Hill. I 

had never worked on the Hill prior to coming to Congress, but I 

think it is very powerful that the three of you who are here in 

many ways representing House staff and now as strong voices on 

behalf of not only your districts but on behalf of the country as 

Members. So thank you. 

And I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Congresswoman Brooks yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. 

Raskin, for the purposes of an opening statement. 

Mr. RASKIN. Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Brady, thank 

you very much for calling this hearing. And I also want to thank 

our distinguished witnesses for their leadership and their perseverance in dealing with this issue. 

The Nation is in an uproar today over sexual assault and sexual 

harassment. From the studios of liberal Hollywood to the studios 

of FOX News, from Wall Street to Alabama, there is a tectonic shift 


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taking place in women’s unwillingness to put up with what prior 

generations of women were often forced to accept as business as 

usual. And I believe the public generally has seen enough too and 

wants action. 

In Congress, we must be leaders in changing a culture of sexual 

harassment and assault, not just by what we say in our legislation 

but by what we do in our own workplace. Justice Brandeis once 

said: ‘‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For 

good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’’ 

Mr. Chairman, sexual harassment at work is a pervasive problem that has been documented. The EEOC estimated that anywhere from 25 percent to 85 percent of women have experienced 

sexual harassment in the workplace. And let’s be clear that it is 

illegal. Whether it takes the form of quid pro quo sexual harassment or hostile workplace environment harassment, it constitutes 

sex discrimination and degrades the professional status and social 

position of women. 

To think that this body is somehow immune from sexual harassment and abuse of women would be naive at best. At last count, 

more than 1,500 former staffers signed a petition directly calling on 

us to reform policies aimed at preventing sexual harassment and 

adjudicating complaints. 

My chief of staff, Julie Tagen, who has spent most of her career 

on Capitol Hill, says she does not know a single woman in her age 

group who has not experienced inappropriate conduct in the workplace. As businesses across the country face their responsibilities 

for creating harassment-free workplaces, we must do our own part 

and lead by example in the public sector. 

A critical first step is requiring annual mandatory sexual harassment prevention and response training for Members of Congress 

and staffers alike, just as we require ethics and cybersecurity training. 

I am a proud cosponsor of Representative Speier’s CEASE resolution, House Resolution 604, the Congressional Education About 

Sexual Harassment Eradication Resolution. And I would urge the 

House to quickly move to adopt this measure as the Senate did last 

week. 

Although this is an important place to start, mandating annual 

sexual harassment training is not sufficient. We must examine existing dispute resolution processes, which recent incidents suggest 

may be acting still as a deterrent to reporting and resolving problems. I am eager to hear from our witnesses today on what more 

can be done, and I understand that there are multiple proposals 

that have been put on the table aimed at encouraging reporting, soliciting feedback, promoting a healthy workplace environment, and 

protecting staffers against retaliation. 

I am eager to learn how we can work together in a completely 

bipartisan way, Mr. Chairman, to create a workplace safe for all 

of our employees and that all Americans can be proud of. Thank 

you, and I look forward to the testimony today. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Maryland yields back. 

I would now like to introduce our witnesses on our first panel. 

Representative Jackie Speier represents California’s 14th Congressional District. She serves on the House Committee on Armed 


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Services as the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Military 

Personnel and on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. She received her B.A. in political science from the University of California at Davis and a J.D. from UC Hastings College of 

Law. Representative Speier has been and continues to be a tireless 

advocate for women’s rights. We appreciate her efforts in raising 

awareness of sexual harassment and being with us today. 

Representative Bradley Byrne represents Alabama’s First Congressional District. In Congress, Representative Byrne serves on 

the House Committee on Armed Services as well as the Education 

and Workforce Committee. After completing his undergraduate 

studies at Duke University, Representative Byrne received his law 

degree from the University of Alabama School of Law. He practiced 

labor and employment law in Alabama for over 30 years. 

During Representative Byrne’s practice, he advised multiple 

businesses on harassment policies, protocol and procedures, and 

litigated numerous employment cases. He also has overseen multiple sexual harassment investigations over his many years of practice. 

So, Representatives Speier and Byrne, the Committee has received your written testimony. 

You will now each be given 5 minutes to present a summary of 

that submission. And to help you keep time, as you have done on 

the other end, you know how it works. Five minutes. With 1 

minute to go, it will go yellow. With time up, it will go red. And 

we certainly want to thank both of you for this time. 

So the Chair will now recognize Representative Speier for 5 minutes for her summary. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JACKIE SPEIER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

Ms. SPEIER. Chairman Harper, Ranking Member Brady, Members of the Committee, thank you so much for the opportunity to 

speak to you. And let me begin by saying how impressed I am at 

the seriousness with which you are undertaking this issue. It is 

complex, and it will be at times uncomfortable to deal with it. 

It is important to note that two out of three sexual assaults go 

unreported in this country, and oftentimes, sexual harassment 

leads to sexual assault. 

Since I shared my own story on #MeTooCongress, I have had numerous meetings and phone calls with staff members, both present 

and former, women and men who have been subjected to this inexcusable and oftentimes illegal behavior. In fact, there are two 

Members of Congress, Republican and Democrat, right now, who 

serve, who have been subject to review—or not have been subject 

to review but have engaged in sexual harassment. From these harasser propositions such as, ‘‘Are you going to be a good girl,’’ to perpetrators exposing their genitals, to victims having their private 

parts grabbed on the House floor, all they ask in return as staff 

members is to be able to work in a hostile-free work environment. 

They want the system fixed and the perpetrators held accountable. 

I have been working on this issue since 2014 and believe there 

are three steps Congress needs to take to fix the egregious and 

sometimes illegal behavior. The first step is to require sexual harVerDate Sep 11 2014 00:43 Sep 26, 2018 Jkt 031447 PO 00000 Frm 00010 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A447.XXX A447

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assment prevention and response training every year for both 

Members and staff, just like ethics and cybersecurity training. The 

existing Office of Compliance online training model is a start, as 

some of you have pointed out, but it is not adequate. Research has 

found that effective training requires in-person, interactive instruction and dialogue. A simple change to the House rules will achieve 

this result, and there is already legislation coauthored by many of 

you, H.R. 604. 

And I want to give special thanks to Ranking Member Brady, 

Representatives Costello, Poliquin, Lofgren, and Raskin for their 

coleadership on this issue. 

Second, we can’t fix what we don’t know. In my experience working on sexual harassment and sexual violence on college campuses, 

in academia, and in our military, climate surveys are conducted 

regularly and are key to recognizing the scope of the problem and 

to evaluating the effectiveness of reforms. That is why Congress 

should institute a congressional climate survey every 2 years. 

Third, we must reform the broken dispute resolution system. The 

present system may have been okay in the dark ages. It is not appropriate for the 21st century. Under the current process, as you 

see on the monitor, congressional employees are at best unaware 

or confused, and at worst, they are utterly betrayed. 

This flowchart shows the current process. First, you report the 

instance to the OC. You then have mandatory counseling for 30 

days. After that, you are required—and I underscore ‘‘required’’— 

to sign a nondisclosure agreement before you even begin mediation. 

You then have mandatory mediation for 30 days. Additionally, the 

harasser and the Member’s office are represented by House of Representatives Counsel. Now, listen. How does that compute? They 

are provided free legal counsel. The victim is not. 

I have also heard from mediators who say the congressional process is atypical in that survivors don’t have the option to be in separate rooms as the defendant’s counsel and that survivors are often 

addressed in an aggressive manner. Additionally, the fact that 

House Counsel works on behalf of the alleged harasser during mediation and then is charged with advocating to this Committee for 

the settlement agreement on behalf of the survivor seems to be a 

conflict of interest. 

If the employee makes it this far, they then have to go through 

another 30 days of what they call a cooling-off period. So now 90 

days have elapsed, and that employee is still required to work in 

that legislative office or else they are not eligible for services 

through the OOC. 

Now, I might also point out at this junction that interns and fellows don’t even have this process to access. So they have nowhere 

to go. 

After the 30 days cooling-off period, then you can either file a formal complaint in a Federal district court or you can have an administrative hearing where there are negotiations, the settlement 

is approved, and then we move forward. 

So, for the few survivors who secure a settlement, there is no disclosure of the office involved or the amount of funds. Taxpayers 

foot the bill, and the harasser goes on with his or her life. There 

is zero accountability and zero transparency. I might also add that, 


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during that process, the victim can’t even communicate that they 

are going through an OOC process to their family, to their friends, 

or to anyone in their religious community. 

So it is really no wonder that staffers do not seek this process 

at all. And, finally, as one of them said to me who I met with last 

week: I am a single mother; I can’t afford to lose my job. The 

thought of being blackballed in this institution, the thought of 

being somehow subject to reprisal, all of that has an effect. 

So I really feel that it is important for us to move forward, not 

just with training but to move forward with a comprehensive reform of the Office of Compliance. 

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask unanimous consent to submit 

the letter for the record of some 1,500 former members of staff in 

Congress. And I think I have made copies available to all of you. 

If you flip through those pages, you will see that they—they range 

back in the seventies, all the way to the current time. 

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection. 

[The information follows:] 


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Ms. SPEIER. With that, I yield back. 

[The statement of Ms. Speier follows:] 


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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Congresswoman Speier, for that very 

powerful and insightful testimony that you have given us today. 

The Chair will now recognize Representative Bradley Byrne for 

the purposes of an opening statement. 

We look forward to hearing from you, Congressman Byrne, on 

your experience to let us know what is happening in the private 

sector and your time that you spent working on those cases. So the 

Chair now recognizes you for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRADLEY BYRNE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ALABAMA 

Mr. BYRNE. Thank you, Chairman Harper and Ranking Member 

Brady, Members of the Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to 

testify before you today on this important topic. 

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basis 

of race, color, religion, sex, national origin. In 1986, sexual harassment was recognized by the Supreme Court as a violation of title 

VII. In 1995, Congress passed the Congressional Accountability 

Act, or CAA, subjecting us to title VII. 

Based on my prior experience and recent research into the current policies regarding harassment here in Congress, I want to 

make a few observations and offer some of my own suggestions. 

First, we need to mandate harassment training. I strongly believe the House should require mandatory sexual harassment 

training for all Members and employees. Recent events have demonstrated that training, while available to Members of Congress 

and employees, is underutilized. I will also note that mandatory 

training at the House is not unprecedented and is already required 

for ethics and computer security. 

There are also multiple harassment trainings currently provided 

by different congressional support offices. It is my opinion that this 

Committee should settle on one high-quality training product to 

make sure that all House employees are trained in the same manner. 

Number two, we should consider a universal harassment policy 

for all House employees. Although not required by law, creating 

and enforcing antiharassment policies is now a near universal 

norm in the private sector. As you are aware, each individual congressional office is an independent hiring authority, and each office 

has its own policies. Given the unique nature of House employment, it is my opinion that a uniform, universal antiharassment 

policy based upon the CAA and applicable to all House Members 

and employees would be much more effective in curbing unwanted 

sexual harassment than the current patchwork of different harassment policies that we have today throughout offices on Capitol Hill. 

With a universal policy, the training of House employees would be 

simplified and made consistent across the House. 

Number three, we should examine the Congressional Accountability Act to consider improvements to the complaint and enforcement process. It has been over 20 years since Congress enacted the 

Congressional Accountability Act. I believe this is an opportune 

time to revisit and consider revisions to this important statute. The 

statutory provisions governing harassment claims in the legislative 


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branch are different than those that govern private sector employment and other public employees. 

In the private sector, the EEOC administers and enforces laws 

against workforce discrimination. The EEOC investigates discrimination complaints based upon a protected class. The process begins 

by an aggrieved party filing a charge with the EEOC. The EEOC 

then has the option to request the parties engage in mediation. 

However, mediation is not required for either party. If mediation 

is not requested or it is unsuccessful, the EEOC has investigatory 

power, including subpoena power. After the investigatory process is 

complete, the EEOC has the right to bring a case upon an aggrieved individual’s behalf or to issue the individual a right-to-sue 

letter allowing the aggrieved party to bring litigation. 

In contrast, the Office of Compliance has no investigative authority and cannot prosecute harassment claims, and the CAA requires 

mandatory counseling, as Ms. Speier pointed out, for those making 

claims. We should work to bring the OOC process and authority in 

line with that of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. 

Other suggestions for revisions to the act, in my opinion, would 

include subjecting our unpaid workforce, such as interns, pages, 

and fellows, to the act’s antidiscrimination provisions. Certainly, 

these changes will increase the workload of the OOC, and we need 

to be prepared to provide them the necessary appropriations. 

Fourth, we need to increase Member accountability. Given the 

constitutional nature of our offices, Member-on-Member sexual harassment is not something where harassment law and the employment structure can easily be applied. In this matter, it is my opinion that we must exercise our constitutional duty to discipline our 

own membership. I believe we should adopt a specific policy for this 

kind of behavior in our code of official conduct, more expressive 

than the one we presently have, that would send a signal that 

Member-on-Member sexual harassment will not be tolerated and 

that Members of this body support those being harassed in reporting these incidents to the Ethics Committee. 

Moreover, while an employee may be able to obtain monetary relief under the CAA, a settlement or judgment is paid by the taxpayers. Personally, I find this unacceptable. If a Member of Congress settles a claim as the harasser or is found liable as a harasser, it is my belief that the Member should be personally liable 

or required to be repay the Treasury for such damages. Furthermore, any payment out of the Treasury in response to a claim of 

discrimination or harassment by a House office should be made in 

a manner that is fully transparent. 

Finally, it is my opinion that, given the inherent power differential between a Member and their staff that they supervise, we 

should include a strict prohibition on Members engaging in a sexual relationship with staff under their direct supervision. 

In closing, I appreciate the opportunity to share my observations 

and would be happy to provide more information to the Committee 

as necessary. 

[The statement of Mr. Byrne follows:] 


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The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank you, Congressman Byrne, for 

your testimony and with your experience that you bring. 

And, Congresswoman Speier, we want to thank you, as well. I 

know that this is such an important issue. And you have given us 

much to think about as we go through this review process. 

So, with that, we will excuse you. 

And I believe Congresswoman Speier will move up to the dais. 

We will now take just a moment to get our second panel in place. 

Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, the Judiciary Committee has the 

Attorney General as a witness in oversight right now, so I am 

going to excuse myself. 

[Recess.] 

The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank our witnesses on the second 

panel for being here and taking the time to come educate us as we 

discuss this very serious issue of how we are going to prevent sexual harassment in Congress as we go forward. 

I would now like to take a moment to introduce each of you. Ms. 

Barbara Childs Wallace currently serves as the Chair of the Board 

of Directors of the Office of Compliance. She received her undergraduate degree from Purdue University in 1973, her J.D. from 

Loyola University in Chicago in 1977, and an LL.M in labor law 

with highest honors from the National Law Center of George 

Washington University in 1979. Ms. Childs Wallace has worked at 

Carter Child and Caraway since 1983 in the field of labor law, giving her 37 years of experience in this area. She also served as 

chairman of the Labor and Employment Section of the Mississippi 

Bar Association. 

And we welcome you, Ms. Childs Wallace. 

Ms. Gloria Lett currently serves as Counsel to the Office of 

House Employment Counsel. She received her undergraduate degree from State University of New York and her J.D. at George 

Washington University. Prior to serving as counsel, Ms. Lett was 

a corporate attorney handling employment law issues and litigation 

for a large telecommunications company. She also served as an assistant corporation counsel representing the District of Columbia in 

civil litigation, as a Special Assistant United States Attorney for 

the District of Columbia handling criminal prosecutions, and as an 

attorney for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. 

We welcome you, Ms. Lett. 

The Committee has received each of your written testimonies. 

Each witness will have 5 minutes to present a summary of that 

submission. 

As you know, to help you keep the time, when I recognize you, 

the light will be green for 4 minutes. It will turn yellow for the last 

minute and red when the time is up. So, at this time, the Chair 

now recognizes for the purposes of an opening statement Ms. Barbara Childs Wallace. 


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STATEMENTS OF BARBARA CHILDS WALLACE, CHAIR, BOARD 

OF DIRECTORS, OFFICE OF COMPLIANCE; AND GLORIA 

LETT, COUNSEL, OFFICE OF HOUSE EMPLOYMENT COUNSEL 

STATEMENT OF BARBARA CHILDS WALLACE 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. Thank you. Good morning, Chairman Harper, Ranking Member Brady, distinguished Members of the Committee of House Administration, Congresswoman Speier, and Congressman Byrne. It is an honor to be here today representing not 

only the Office of Compliance but its Board of Directors, which I 

chair. The other members of the Board are Susan Robfogel from 

New York, Roberta Holzwarth from Illinois, Barbara Camens from 

the District of Columbia, and Alan Friedman from California. And 

we were appointed to these part-time positions on the Board by the 

majority and the minority leadership of both Houses of Congress. 

We are required by the Congressional Accountability Act, or commonly known as the CAA, to each have professional expertise in 

the application of the workplace laws that apply to the legislature 

by the CAA. In fact, all five of us who are in private practice have 

decades of experience within the private sector and a few of us also 

within the Federal Government in both labor and employment and 

discrimination issues. 

The CAA also requires that we are to be appointed without regard to political affiliation. Our Board has been serving since 1999, 

and we have worked diligently and in a nonpartisan manner during this time to try and ensure the rights of all individuals working 

on the Hill, that they are protected. I also want to thank the members of our staff, many of whom are here with me today. The OOC 

has a huge mandate from the statute, which we accomplish with 

approximately 20 full-time employees. They are very skilled and 

equally committed to the task laid out for us by the CAA. 

Finally, I want to especially thank Chairman Harper, who just 

happens to be my Congressman from Mississippi. I am originally 

from the Chicago area, but for the past 34 years, I have practiced 

employment law in Jackson, Mississippi. It is nice to see a neighbor holding the gavel, and we appreciate the fact so much that you 

have called for this important hearing to take place. 

As you know, Congress—and as has been testified to already— 

Congress created our office in 1995 under the CAA, which has incorporated 13 Federal workplace laws that are applicable in the 

private sector and the executive branch to the legislative community. This act designates three primary responsibilities for our office, although there are many other statutory functions that are 

performed in addition. First, we inspect the Capitol Grounds and 

the legislative branch facilities to ensure that our community is 

free from occupational, safety, and health hazards, and is accessible to persons with qualified disabilities. Second, and especially 

pertinent to the subject of this hearing, we provide an alternative 

dispute resolution program to covered employees who seek to assert 

their rights under the CAA. And, third, also pertinent to this hearing, our office maintains a robust and comprehensive outreach and 

education program to this community about their rights, responsibilities, and protections under the act. 


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In addition, the CAA mandates that our Board report to Congress every 2 years on our recommendations for changes to the 

CAA based on the labor and employment laws in the private sector 

and in the executive branch. Mr. Chairman, since 2010, our Board 

has zealously advocated in these biennial reports, also known as 

our 102(b) reports, for mandatory training on how to prevent and 

remedy harassment, discrimination, and retaliation of all sorts in 

the entire legislative community, the sort of training that is regularly performed in the private sector and in the executive branch. 

It is with great satisfaction that we see that this Committee and 

the many lawmakers on Capitol Hill are responding to this recommendation. Before harassment can be corrected, everyone in the 

legislative community must understand the meaning of harassment, how to respond to it, and, more importantly, how to avoid 

it. Consistent with our statutory mandate to inform and to educate 

individuals within the legislative branch, our Board believes that 

mandatory training on harassment, discrimination, and retaliatory 

behavior will provide the best avenue to not only avoid the conduct 

in the future but to help transform the legislative branch into a 

model work environment whereby the lawmakers can and do lead 

by example. 

This concludes my remarks, and I ask that my extended statement that has been submitted to the Committee be included in the 

record of this hearing. 

I now looked forward to any questions that you might have. And 

thank you again. 

[The statement of Ms. Childs Wallace follows:] 


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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, so much, for your testimony. 

The Chair will now recognize Ms. Gloria Lett for 5 minutes for 

the purposes of an opening statement. 

STATEMENT OF GLORIA LETT 

Ms. LETT. Good morning. My name is Gloria Lett, as you know, 

and I am one of the attorneys with the Office of House Employment Counsel, also known as OHEC. OHEC is basically an inhouse law firm available to Members of Congress, each of which is 

a separate employing office, committees, House officers to provide 

advice and counsel on the various issues that arise under the Congressional Accountability Act and, specifically for the purposes of 

this hearing, the question of sexual harassment. We are there as 

a partner with employing offices to help them understand the issue 

of sexual harassment and to help them prevent and address the 

issue of sexual harassment when it does occur in the workplace. 

I am very grateful to be here, to have this opportunity to talk 

about my office and the resources that we do provide to House employing offices. 

OHEC basically has three core functions. Those are to provide 

counseling, to provide training, and to provide representation and 

litigation when employees raise claims of sexual harassment in 

their workplaces. The way that manifests itself—and I think it is 

important to keep in mind that our office is a nonpartisan office. 

All contacts with our office are confidential, protected by the attorney-client privilege. And so when we are called by employing offices 

to talk about these issues, I think it is a good model in that they 

can speak frankly to us. We can ask difficult questions. We can 

learn the good and the bad and the really bad and give them advice 

and counsel on how to address those issues. We talk about the 

legal issues, but more importantly, we talk about how the office can 

address issues and take appropriate corrective action to make sure 

that the behavior stops. 

That corrective action can range from counseling, sending an employee to training, or discipline up to and including termination. 

And there is accountability in congressional offices and House offices for individuals who engage in harassment. Sometimes they 

are, indeed, fired. 

The other part of our role is to provide training. We provide 

training on a request basis. We provide training on a regular basis. 

The House officers in IG, for example, schedule mandatory training 

for all new employees and all new managers. And they schedule 

that directly with our office, and we conduct that training. 

We also do training after there has been an issue of sexual harassment. So we go to district offices as a followup to make sure 

that the behavior doesn’t happen again, and we do it on a request 

basis for those offices that are proactive on these issues. 

We do two—three types of training, actually. One is 

antiharassment training that is specifically for employees. Again, 

that is on a request basis by an office. And we educate employees 

about what sexual harassment is. That is in-person training. We 

have vignettes and video where we stop the training at each section, and we explain the behavior, and we have a conversation so 

that employees understand what they have seen and how it can be 


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unlawful and how they can report that behavior to their management so that it can be addressed. 

We also do something called sensitivity training. The sensitivity 

training is broader because, as you know, sexual harassment is unlawful under title VII of the Civil Rights Act, but so is racial harassment and so is harassment based on an individual’s religion. So 

we discuss those broader issues, but we discuss sexual harassment 

in the context of that training. 

And, lastly, we do training for managers. And that training, in 

my view, is vitally important to be in-person training because managers have to navigate around a lot of issues in order to properly 

handle the issue of sexual harassment. Not only do they face 

claims by employees who allege harassment, but they can also face 

claims by an employee who has been accused of harassment if the 

office doesn’t properly investigate the issue and conduct it in a fair 

manner. So, if someone is accused of harassment and they feel that 

it was unfair or discriminatory, the result, they can also sue the 

office. And so we help offices manage that. 

And, lastly, we do represent employing offices in litigation when 

an employee goes to the Office of Compliance. Sometimes we know 

that those cases are going to happen because we have advised the 

office, and they have done everything in their power to correct the 

issue. And sometimes we don’t know about it. And so we do represent them and do corrective action in that context as well. Thank 

you. 

[The statement of Ms. Lett follows:] 


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The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank both of you for taking the time 

to be here and to educate us as we go through this critical review 

process and come up with a plan to make sure that we do prevent 

future cases of sexual harassment, hopefully decrease your workload in the process. 

So, at this time, the Members will have an opportunity to ask 

questions, and I will now begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes 

for questions. 

And I will start with you, if I may, Ms. Childs Wallace. And I 

want to thank you for that insight you have given us to highlight 

what the Office of Compliance’s adjudication process is. So I have 

got a couple of questions just to make sure we understand that 

fully. 

I want you to describe the importance of each step in the process, 

and, for example, how important is the counseling intake step that 

you have? And why is confidentiality important during this phase? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. The counseling process, I think, is somewhat of a misnomer. It is more like an intake process. It is not 

therapy to the person who comes in seeking the—initiating the 

counseling step. People who come to us often—well, most likely are 

not lawyers. They don’t know the statutes necessarily. And they 

need assistance to see whether or not their claims fit within the 

context of the 13 laws that are applicable under the CAA. To give 

you a very basic example, if you have someone who comes in and 

says, ‘‘I think that I have been discriminated against on the basis 

of my age,’’ and in the intake process, ‘‘Well, how old are you?’’ ‘‘I 

am 30 years old.’’ ‘‘Our statute does not cover you until you are 40 

for age discrimination.’’ It is that kind of information that—it is a 

give-and-take to let them know the law. It also is a time when our 

office can explain what the proceedings are and the employee can 

determine whether or not they want to go that route. Oftentimes, 

things are resolved during that period very easily. 

Confidentiality is not meant to be a gag order. 

The CHAIRMAN. Uh-huh. 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. It is confidential primarily for the Office 

of Compliance. We don’t call up the employing office and say, ‘‘Your 

employee has come in to see us about X, Y, and Z.’’ What it is, is 

the employee still has the ability to go out and talk to their friends 

and neighbors and say, ‘‘My supervisor has done A, B, and C.’’ We 

don’t contact the employing office. It is maintained confidentially so 

that the employee has a chance to learn the system, learn what the 

laws are. 

One thing about the 30-day period. The law specifically says that 

30 days can be cut short on the request of the employee. So, if the 

employee comes in and gets the information that they need and 

they say, ‘‘Fine, I know what I am going to do,’’ counseling ends, 

and it may last 1 day. So it doesn’t have to be a 30-day period. 

The CHAIRMAN. Talk to me for just a minute, if you would, about 

the mediation phase and what, just in general terms, what percentage of cases are resolved during that part of mediation? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. I don’t have the specific statistics on it. 

But what I have been informed about from my staff is that about 

40 to 50 percent of the cases are resolved during the counseling or 

mediation period. So that is a significant amount that are resolved. 


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The mediation process is very similar to mediation that Congressman Byrne would have seen with the EEOC. It is not required 

that the employee attend. This is particularly important for employees in our district offices. It is not required that they sit in the 

same room with the person that is—that they are accusing of sexual harassment, for instance, in this instance. They can be in separate rooms. I have done countless mediations in my private practice 

where the two may never even look at each other. They may be in 

separate conference rooms and the mediator may go back and 

forth. So I think it is a valued procedure. I don’t know the legislative history as to why Congress put it in there. But we have seen 

that it works. It does not have to go 30 days. 

The CHAIRMAN. Okay. 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. If they meet together and the mediator 

and they say, ‘‘This is not going to be resolved,’’ they can cut it 

short, and the next process starts. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Lett, if I may ask you, on the training that 

you referred to, you have, obviously, online training, and then you 

will also do in-person training. How much of your in-person training is done here in the D.C. offices versus in district offices? 

Ms. LETT. We do training—typically, when an office asks for 

training, they ask for training for their entire staff. So we will do 

the training here in D.C. and in the district office as well. 

The CHAIRMAN. Got ya. You know, I know the office will typically 

contact you before they take employment actions, I assume. For example, do they contact you before taking employment actions or 

contact you generally regarding sexual harassment awareness? 

Ms. LETT. Congressman, I wish all of our clients contacted us before they took employment action. It doesn’t always happen that 

way, but it typically does happen that way. And we work with 

them to get to the underlying issue, to find out if there is any merit 

to the allegation, to do an investigation, and then take appropriate 

corrective action. 

The CHAIRMAN. And you would usually come in during the mediation phase from OOC. Are you ever contacted before OOC, or is 

it typically just following what you hear from them? 

Ms. LETT. I mentioned earlier that sometimes we will know that 

an employee is going to go to the Office of Compliance. What the 

courts have said is that if an employer takes appropriate corrective 

action designed to stop the behavior, they are going to be insulated 

from liability in hostile work environment cases. But sometimes 

employees are not satisfied with that. So they will go to the Office 

of Compliance, and we expect it. 

As Barbara just mentioned, the counseling phase is confidential, 

but the employee can waive that and reach out to the employee. 

Typically, we will find out about mediation when there has been 

a notice of mediation issued. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you both very much. 

The Chair will now recognize Ranking Member Mr. Brady for the 

purpose of questions for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I have a question for both of you. It is important to have staff 

and managers participate in antiharassment training for the betterment of the workplace. Can you speak on how antiharassment 


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and discrimination training directly relates to less complaints and 

a better workplace? Either one. 

Ms. LETT. I can take that one. I think it is very important that 

employees understand what sexual harassment is, that they have 

a right to come forward and report it, and that they will not be retaliated against if they do so. And that is what training accomplishes. It gives them knowledge. I think that that will invariably 

lead to less complaints because an employer can address the issue 

before it becomes a formal process where they go to the Office of 

Compliance. 

I just ran into a chief of staff that I have known since I started 

on the Hill in 1996. And she told me, in her experience, she has 

only ever had one situation with sexual harassment. And I know 

that there are obviously many cases that go unreported. But she 

said that it was a staffer in the office. He said something that was 

inappropriate. She called him into her office. She read him the riot 

act, and she told him if it happened again, he would lose his job. 

So, oftentimes, if employees are aware of these issues, it can be addressed at the earliest possible stage for the employee. And that is 

what we all want. We want employees to have safe and productive 

work environments. 

And I think it is important for employers to say to their employees: Please come tell us. 

When we do the training for the managers, we tell them how important it is to talk to your employees, to walk around, to respond 

to rumors or anything that you hear where someone might be feeling uncomfortable and then have a conversation with them. Oftentimes, these things can be addressed at the earliest possible stage. 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. I agree with everything that Ms. Lett said. 

The one thing I do want to add to it is that training is yet another opportunity to tell the employees: Here is where you go if you 

have a problem; there is this entity called the Office of Compliance. 

One of the things that we are hearing so much in the media is 

that people on the Hill don’t know who the Office of Compliance 

is. If there is a trainer in front of you that says, ‘‘There is this 

body, the Office of Compliance, and this is where you go to make 

a complaint,’’ there is no reason why any employee on the Hill 

shouldn’t know who we are and where we are located and how to 

make a complaint. 

I would like to correct one thing that I said about the mediation 

process, that that is a 30-day period that cannot be waived. And 

I misspoke on that. 

Mr. BRADY. Most of the complaints about harassment that are 

filed with the Office of Compliance are coming from non-Member 

and noncommittee offices such as the AOC, CAO. How can we 

make staffers and Members and committee offices feel comfortable 

speaking up on their issues of harassment or discrimination? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. Well, I think that, in training that I have 

done in my private practice—and I think that Ms. Lett indicated 

the same thing—is it can be a dialogue. It can be talking about 

what is appropriate and what isn’t appropriate. One thing I think 

that needs to be understood is there is illegal sexual harassment, 

and there are bad practices. And some things don’t—a complainant 

might not win in court with what their complaint is, but they can 


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still ruin the morale of an office and be inappropriate. And I think 

that the training, in-person training in particular, can go into both 

areas of what is illegal and what is inappropriate for this particular office. 

I think one thing that Congressman Byrne said in his statement 

about having a universal policy is very interesting, so that everybody is working on the same page and everybody knows, even in 

the office, as Ms. Lett was saying, where you go to complain within 

your office. But, also, a necessary component has to be who OOC 

is and what our purpose is in the whole process. 

Ms. LETT. And I agree with that, if I may respond. It is very important to have written policies. There is a model sexual harassment policy that is part of the model handbook that this Committee makes available to House employing offices. We worked 

with the Committee staff to develop that. And that policy basically 

sets out zero tolerance for this type of behavior and tells employees 

of the consequences if they do participate. But training is vitally 

important. When we do training, in-person training, it is amazing 

to see how men and women might have very different reactions to 

the same conduct that they view in the video. And when they have 

that dialogue, it helps to inform both groups where they are coming 

from and why it is problematic and unwelcome behavior. 

Mr. BRADY. I thank both of you. 

I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

I would ask the witnesses to just maybe pull your microphones 

a little closer to you as we are having some background noise. 

And the Chair will now recognize the Vice Chairman of the Committee, Mr. Davis, for the purpose of questions for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Ranking Member, for hosting this hearing. 

And I would like to thank my colleague Bradley, somebody who 

practiced employment law in Alabama. I think many of the comments in his opening testimony were very well stated. 

And the powerful testimony from my colleague Jackie. Thank 

you. 

And then also the opening statements of Barbara and Susan. 

Thank you for your testimony and your comments. 

I think it is long overdue, and I appreciate both of you and your 

opening statements because no one should have to worry about sexual harassment in the workplace. And as a former staffer, one of 

the reasons I wanted to serve on this Committee is to continue to 

professionalize the House and establish a workplace that is grounded in respect. 

I look forward to discussing with each of you the potential areas 

and current policy that need improvement and any areas you suggest that we need to make better because, in Congress, we have got 

to lead by example. 

My first question for both of you is: It is important we get this 

right. And I have a female-led staff. And I asked them their opinion. And they were concerned some offices—that an unintended 

consequence may be that some offices may just take a shortcut and 

not hire women as a way to avoid these issues. And, obviously, that 

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ment to work toward true prevention of sexual harassment while 

also continuing to make Capitol Hill a place of opportunity for female professionals? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. I think that one of the things that is just 

tremendous is to see women as Members. And I think that I am 

not as concerned about that with the strong, fantastic women that 

we have as Members. And I think as—there is a great wealth of 

experience and talent out there with females, and I would certainly 

hope that that would not be a consequence of harassment—— 

Mr. DAVIS. Agreed. 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE [continuing]. Training. 

Ms. LETT. And my office certainly has had discussions with—we 

have heard that. And we have had those discussions with our clients to remind them that that is unlawful, and, obviously, individuals should be hired based on their merit without regard to gender. 

But, again, I think it is very important to have training. I keep 

coming back to that. And we do training on hiring techniques and 

things of that nature as well. But just awareness is very important 

with respect to that issue. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you both. 

Ms. Childs Wallace, what challenges does the OOC face in carrying out its educational duties? For example, I am a former district staffer. So how does the OOC reach out to the district offices, 

and how can we as a Committee be helpful? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. Well, there are several things, I think. 

First of all, one of the recommendations that we have made every 

other year is with regard to these posters. We are required by statute to develop these posters. These are the kind of posters that are 

posted in workplaces in the executive branch and in the private 

sector. And we do, and we hand them out. And there is no law that 

requires anybody in Congress to post these notices. They are notice 

of rights. They also talk about OOC. These can go in the district 

offices too. 

We do training with another outside organization through—I am 

blanking on the name of the organization—that does training in 

the district offices, and also, the online modules of training that we 

have that we have been developing and are continuing to develop 

more and more can be taken by employees in the district offices. 

Mr. DAVIS. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. 

Ms. Lett, if an employing office conducts an internal investigation, what role does OHEC play during the investigative process? 

And are there internal investigations that are resolved—I think 

you mentioned some—without using the OOC process? 

Ms. LETT. When an office contacts us and there is an issue with 

sexual harassment, we work with the office to conduct the investigation. We give them materials that are very exhaustive. Not 

every situation requires that they learn this 25-page document of 

instructions on how to conduct an investigation. But we work with 

them every step of the way. 

Some offices, their staff is very savvy, very comfortable doing investigations. And when I say ‘‘investigations,’’ in some instances, it 

may mean talking to two employees and figuring out what happened. 


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But some offices aren’t quite as comfortable with investigations. 

So what we will do is we will help them to get the help of an independent, outside investigator. And that investigator will get to the 

bottom of what is going on, report it to the office, and then we will 

work with that office to figure out what the appropriate corrective 

action is. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you both. 

I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize Congresswoman Speier for 5 minutes for questions. 

Ms. SPEIER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Let me ask you, Ms. Lett, whether or not you end up representing the harasser in mediation or not? 

Ms. LETT. Our client is the employing office. So we never represent an individual. At the end of the day, someone obviously is 

accused of harassment, but they are not our client. The client is the 

employing office of the Member or the committee or the House office. 

Ms. SPEIER. So I think we are mincing words here. Let’s say a 

Member is being accused of sexual harassment. You are representing the Member, correct? 

Ms. LETT. We are representing the employing office, which sometimes can also be the Member, yes. 

Ms. SPEIER. Do you think that is appropriate? 

Ms. LETT. I think it is appropriate given our role. Our role is an 

in-house law firm. We are no different than a private sector company. They have their own lawyers to represent them in these matters. And under the Congressional Accountability Act, the House 

employers are supposed to experience the same thing as private 

sector employers. So the situation is analogous. 

Ms. SPEIER. So when you are representing—let’s, for discussion 

purposes, say the Member, it is your job to try and resolve this so 

that the Member is kept whole and none of it becomes public. Do 

you ever find yourself in a position of saying to the victim, ‘‘You 

know, if you pursue this, your career on Capitol Hill is over’’? 

Ms. LETT. My office absolutely would never say that to a victim. 

Our role is to assist the office in getting to the bottom of what is 

going on and to take appropriate action. In the case—we have had 

a couple of cases where the Member was the individual who was 

accused of the harassment. And there are corrective steps that can 

be taken to make sure the Member acts appropriately in those circumstances. 

Our office does not have the ability to discipline a Member, but 

certainly the Ethics Committee does, and leadership can interject 

in those situations as well. 

Ms. SPEIER. But if you settle a case between a Member and a 

staff member, it never goes to the Ethics Committee, correct? 

Ms. LETT. That is not necessarily true. 

Ms. SPEIER. Well, how would it go to the Ethics Committee? 

Ms. LETT. A staffer could bring a claim, can contact the Ethics 

Committee. Anyone can contact the Ethics Committee and allege 

that a Member has acted inappropriately. 

Ms. SPEIER. And kiss their job on Capitol Hill goodbye. 


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Ms. LETT. That is not the way it is supposed to work, Congresswoman. Certainly, we assure—we have the employing office assure 

any employee who raises these claims that they will not be retaliated against because, if they are retaliated against, the office can 

be sued for retaliation. 

Ms. SPEIER. It is true, though, that the staff member must be in 

continuous employment in order to access the services of the OOC. 

Is that correct? 

Ms. LETT. I don’t think that that’s correct. I assume that the—— 

Ms. SPEIER. Well, if they are no longer employed by the House 

of Representatives, then I have been told that this office is not 

available to them. 

Ms. LETT. I don’t have that information. 

Ms. SPEIER. All right. What percentage of your mediations is between Member and staff versus staff and staff? 

Ms. LETT. I am sorry, Congresswoman. I can’t hear because of 

the background noise. 

Ms. SPEIER. What percentage of your mediations is between 

Member and staff versus staff and staff? 

Ms. LETT. Overwhelmingly, the mediations concern staff and 

staff. It is very rarely when it involves a Member. But those occasions have occurred. 

Ms. SPEIER. Okay. 

Now, we have been told that if you are accusing someone of sexual harassment, that you are required to be in the same room; it 

is only in cases of sexual assault where you can be in separate 

rooms. 

Ms. LETT. That is not true. You are not required to be in the 

same room. I can tell you from my office, typically when we go to 

mediation, oftentimes, we don’t take the alleged harasser, as we 

find the mediations to be more productive if we take someone else 

from the office who is in management, someone who is familiar 

with the underlying issues. I don’t find it to be particularly productive to have an alleged harasser and a victim sit across the table 

from each other. So that is not how we approach it. 

Ms. SPEIER. Have you ever counseled an accuser that if they 

don’t want to be in the same room, that the legitimacy of their complaints would be called into question? 

Ms. LETT. Can you give me that one again? 

Ms. SPEIER. Have you ever said to someone who was an accuser, 

a victim, who did not want to be in the same room, that in so 

doing, it would cause you to wonder about the legitimacy of their 

complaint? 

Ms. LETT. I don’t recall ever doing that. It is really up to the employee’s counsel to make that decision about whether or not they 

want them to be in the room. So it is not my call. 

Ms. SPEIER. Okay. 

I yield back. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Congresswoman Speier yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize Congresswoman Comstock for 5 

minutes for the purposes of questions. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I also appreciate the testimony of my colleagues and particularly 

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man Byrne laid out. And one of them I wanted to focus on was 

really giving the Members and senior staff some strict guidelines. 

So, taking my example of the Member in the towel, we really 

don’t have current guidelines right now that say to a Member, say 

a sexual relationship with a 19-year-old intern is off limits. Is that 

at all clear right now? Because I haven’t seen that in some of the 

materials, just flat out: Your chief of staff can’t; your senior people—you know, we have these young interns. We have young staff. 

You cannot have this in our office. 

Ms. LETT. I am not aware of anything that says that specifically. 

As someone alluded to earlier, obviously, the code of conduct, which 

says that a Member and staff should conduct themselves in a manner at all times that reflects credibly upon the House, would be relevant in that context. But I don’t know of a specific writing that 

says what you have just—— 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Okay. And for any Seinfeld fans, you have the 

George Costanza rule, you know, where he got fired because he 

didn’t know it was inappropriate to have sex on the desk in the office with the staff. I think that is something we do need to make 

clear from the Member on down because wouldn’t you agree it creates a hostile work environment if there is that kind of relationship 

in an office? 

Ms. LETT. No question about it. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. All right. So that would be something when we 

are looking at just a hostile work environment, like say in this example, I think I would have done what this woman did, go find another job. Not everyone can do that. But if she hadn’t, if she had 

gone along with this, then that is creating—that can go into creating a hostile work environment, right, for the other women in the 

office? 

Ms. LETT. Of course. And I would hope, again, that an employee 

would feel comfortable complaining to whoever would be appropriate in those circumstances. The way the model handbook policy 

is written, the employee is told—asked to report it to either their 

immediate supervisor or anyone in management with whom they 

feel comfortable making that complaint. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Okay. And I appreciate you highlighting how 

the videos and the interactive, having people together because I 

know when I was at my law firm, we had that type of thing in our 

training. And I do think that is an important aspect of what we 

need here. So, as we are looking at this, any of the additional—I 

have been told, for example, the Navy does a good job. Other Federal agencies have materials. Perhaps it would be good for us to get 

more examples, if you can provide us, of some of the things that 

the other agencies and the private sector are doing. I think that 

would be helpful as we look at this. 

And then I had also wanted to ask about one of the suggestions 

that Dorena Bertussi, who is the first woman who I spoke of, that 

I had spoke to, what she suggested was an ombudsman. I think it 

gets to some of the questions that Ms. Speier had where there is 

sort of—I mean, your job is what Congress has told you to be at 

this point. And we are looking at how we might change that. But 

if we were to have an ombudsman who is that victim’s support person, then that could be somebody maybe who would say, ‘‘You know 


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what, this is a criminal case, and you don’t need mediation here, 

you need to go and deal with this legally,’’ or, ‘‘You know, here’s 

the process of what you do if you go through—if you were to go to 

mediation or do these things,’’ but have somebody who is really 

that victim’s advocate. Is that something that you have seen in 

other workplaces or maybe, given the unique nature of our workplace, might be helpful? 

Ms. LETT. I have seen it in other workplaces. I believe at one 

time the Capitol Police had an ombudsman that their employees 

would go to to raise concerns. And it can be a successful model depending on how it is structured. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. And how do you—are you telling staff—when 

there are criminal cases here, and that is—I mean, I know, as I 

mentioned, as an intern, staffer, you know, when you heard criminal activity that went on, people who wouldn’t go forward because 

they were afraid to, is that something that is—because I am—I 

think I am saying we tell people it is criminal, but really letting 

them know all of the things that are actually going on so they feel 

like they are not alone and they can go forward, that this has happened before, and, you know, to report something criminally? 

Ms. LETT. I can say, for our office, that is not our role. Our role 

is to provide legal advice and guidance to employing offices under 

the Congressional Accountability Act. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. But is there anybody identifying when something clearly is a crime? 

Ms. LETT. I am not aware of that. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. I think we may—that may be something we 

really, Mr. Chairman, we really need to look at because it may just 

be if you had a situation where somebody thought, ‘‘Oh, you know, 

I was out with the boss, this happened, it was my fault,’’ and we 

need to tell them, ‘‘No, that wasn’t your fault.’’ 

Ms. SPEIER. Will the gentlelady yield? Would you yield? 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Yes. Yes. 

Ms. SPEIER. One of the components of the legislation that will be 

introduced would have the victim be represented by a special victim’s counsel, much like, in the military now, we have created that 

mechanism for victims of sexual assault. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. And then, but also—because I know at that 

point—but somebody sort of having that intermediary determination, like: Here’s all the different places you can go. Here’s a crime. 

Here you can have somebody. But also have somebody to talk it out 

with before we, you know, you decide what to do, the individual, 

so that they feel like they are covered more in some way. So maybe 

we can discuss that. 

Ms. SPEIER. Well, ostensibly, that is what the counseling component, that first 30 days of what is called counseling is actually legal 

counseling. It can be 1 day. It can be 1 hour. But it ostensibly 

takes place there. But, again, I am not convinced that the system 

we have in place protects the victim at all. 

Mrs. COMSTOCK. Yeah. Agreed. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will now recognize the gentleman 

from North Carolina, Mr. Walker, for 5 minutes. 


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Mr. WALKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for your 

prompt leadership in this very, certainly, important issue. 

I would like to thank my colleagues for their earlier testimony 

and all the people that have spoken on this. It is a very important 

issue. And I am grateful to stand with such stanch advocates in 

our work to make the House of Representatives a respectful and 

safe environment for our fellow colleagues. 

As a minister, a pastor for nearly two decades, sadly, I have 

heard too many similar stories over the years. This type of behavior should never be tolerated here or in any other work environments. I believe that we should lead by example and set the tone 

for the Nation. And in leading by example, I was encouraged by 

our chairman to strongly encourage members of this Committee— 

so we have gone, certainly our entire staff. I am also chairman of 

the Republican Study Committee. So all 28 staffers, as well as myself, have gone through some of the very clear and productive 

training. And I hope that that will lead to even more. 

But Ms. Childs Wallace, early this month, the Board of Directors 

wrote to the Speaker of the House and the President pro tem reiterating its call for mandatory antidiscrimination and 

antiharassment training. Is mandatory training the most effective 

deterrent to the problem of sexual harassment? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. It is one component of it. I think that 

leadership from within each office is also important and letting the 

employees know where they can go to complain is vitally important. But mandatory training is one very important component of 

trying to stop this. 

Mr. WALKER. You say one very important part. In your research, 

are you able to boil down or identify what you would say is the 

most effective component of this? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. Probably mandatory training. 

Mr. WALKER. Okay. All right. Is there any other deterrent that 

you would believe would be equal or a part of this process? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. Well, like I said, posting these notices and 

letting people know who we are and where they can go is important. And then leadership from the top as to what is appropriate 

and not appropriate. 

Mr. WALKER. I believe, if I am correct, also cited in this letter 

to the Board of Directors, this recommendation has been made 

since 1996. Is that correct? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. We have made it many, many times. And 

I can’t give you the exact number, but it is in our biennial reports 

that we recommend this. 

Mr. WALKER. Well, can you tell me, was it first identified in 

1996, or did earlier prompts of concerns kind of get this thing moving? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. I was not on the Board until 1999. So, 

prior to that, I can’t tell you necessarily. 

Mr. WALKER. We don’t have any records or evidence or—— 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. We do have records. And if the Committee 

would like, we can go back and look at all of our 102(b) reports and 

give you the exact dates that we made this recommendation. 

Mr. WALKER. All right. Fair enough. 


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Ms. LETT, in your opinion, what improvements can be made to 

the adjudication process administered by the Congressional Accountability Act? 

Ms. LETT. I have, I guess, a different take than what seems to 

be happening or the position. I think it is a very effective process. 

We have lots and lots of cases that are resolved through that process. Employment cases in general, the overwhelming majority are 

resolved before full-blown litigation. And I think the statistic is 85 

percent of employment cases are resolved before full-blown litigation. 

I believe in this process. I mentioned this before, that once someone goes to the Office of Compliance and we engage in mediation, 

we may be hearing about the problem for the first time. But we do 

an investigation, and we get to the bottom of what is going on, and 

we make recommendations to the office for corrective action. So, as 

I said, I believe in the process as mandated by the statute. And I 

think it works very effectively to address the issue of sexual harassment just as it does for other forms of harassment and discrimination under title VII. 

Mr. WALKER. Thank you for your responses. 

With that, I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

The Chair will now recognize the gentleman from Nebraska, Mr. 

Smith, for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And certainly thank you to our witnesses, our Members, as well, 

for bringing insight and expertise to these very serious issues. 

We have talked a lot about the prevention—preventative measures that can or should be taken. I was wondering if you could 

speak more to what types of resources, whether it is funding or 

other resources, that either one of you think would help empower 

individuals throughout these processes? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. I appreciate your asking that question. 

Let me put it in the context of the Office of Compliance: If we are 

tasked with mandatory training throughout Capitol Hill, we, right 

now, have two employees who work on training along with other 

issues. It is going to be vitally important that we obtain funding 

to add what we figure is probably three more FTEs to help us do 

the training. So that is one thing—and also help with our IT process in the office. Like I said, we are a very, very small office. 

Other things, I think that training that both of us do, those are 

the resources that are just essential. 

Mr. SMITH. Ms. Lett. 

Ms. LETT. For my office, we do a lot of training. We have gotten 

a lot of training requests in the last several weeks. We do the 

training here and again in the district offices. We have ramped up 

our training efforts. So we have multiple trainings occurring in any 

given day. We have ordered additional equipment, and that seems 

to be working very well. 

But I think if, ultimately, the decision is that there is going to 

be a requirement of mandatory training—and I really urge that for 

management—we may also need to have some additional staff 

hired to get that all accomplished. 

Mr. SMITH. Okay. Thank you. 


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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman yields back. 

The chair will now recognize Congresswoman Brooks for 5 minutes. 

Mrs. BROOKS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Lett, you talked about the large majority involve staff-onstaff issues. Can you share with us at what point in the process 

the Member is informed when a staffer comes to OHEC and initiates the process with OHEC? When is the Member brought into the 

process? 

Ms. LETT. The Member is really brought into the process from 

the very beginning because, if an employee goes to a supervisor, 

management, that is going to go up the chain of command, and the 

Member will be informed. So we will get calls from a chief of staff 

who has told us that they have already spoken with the Member, 

or we will get calls directly from the Member. 

Mrs. BROOKS. And if it involves a chief of staff? 

Ms. LETT. If it involves a chief of staff, we would typically get 

the call directly from the Member. 

Mrs. BROOKS. But if a staffer had come into OHEC directly, 

would you call the Member if it involved a chief of staff? 

Ms. LETT. Actually, we don’t talk directly to staffers. That is not 

our role because we are lawyers for the employing office. So, if a 

staffer calls, we essentially will encourage them to go back to their 

management and speak to them because management can address 

a lot of these issues. And if they are not satisfied with that, then 

they can go to the Office of Compliance. But the only time we talk 

directly to employees is when we do training, employee training. 

Mrs. BROOKS. And if you do get that inquiry from a staff member 

and you do not hear from anyone after that, does anything happen? 

Ms. LETT. We do do followup with offices to let them know that 

we have heard from someone and that there may be an issue in 

their office that they need to take a look at. 

Mrs. BROOKS. And for both of you, you both mentioned large percentages of resolutions, resolutions prior to litigation or in lieu of 

litigation. Can you give us examples of resolutions? 

Ms. LETT. Well, I can speak to that. If there is an allegation that 

a coworker is making inappropriate statements in the workplace or 

sending an inappropriate text or email or something of that nature, 

we will have the employing office, a management employee, talk 

with both the person who is complaining about the behavior and 

the person who is the harasser to get to the bottom of what is going 

on and then figure out what the appropriate steps may be to address the behavior. And that could include counseling. That can include training. We do one-on-one training quite a bit, actually. 

That can include training for the staff. And it may also include 

some type of disciplinary action, a letter of reprimand, suspension 

without pay, and, for the more egregious cases, of course, termination. 

Mrs. BROOKS. Thank you. 

Anything else, Ms. Childs Wallace, that you would like to add 

with respect to resolution? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. Sometimes in counseling, if we look at it 

not necessarily in the harassment context, but if someone came in 


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and said, ‘‘I am not afforded the same kind of training as the males 

in my office,’’ it could be as easy as, once the employer is informed 

about it, they say, ‘‘We didn’t know you wanted it; you know, yes, 

let’s get you on the next training on this.’’ And that is a more simple resolution that doesn’t require payments of money and a settlement or something like that. 

In a sex harassment context, it could be changing who your supervisor is, moving you to a different position or moving the alleged 

harasser to a different position so that there is no longer within the 

line of supervision. 

Ms. LETT. May I address that issue—— 

Mrs. BROOKS. Yes. 

Ms. LETT [continuing]. As to one additional point? 

An important part of the resolution is to get back to the person 

who complained to let them know that the office has taken the 

matter very seriously, has looked into the matter, and has taken 

appropriate action to make sure it stops, and to remind that individual that they cannot be retaliated against, and, if there is even 

the remote hint of retaliation, that they should come back to management to take care of it. 

Mrs. BROOKS. And since I am here representing the Ethics Committee in many ways, can you both mention any improvements you 

might make relative to coordination with House Ethics Committee? 

And do you inform a complainant of that option, of pursuing their 

allegation at the Ethics Committee? 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. I have to admit I am not as familiar with 

the Ethics procedures. I do know that if someone goes to the Ethics 

Committee and wants to make a complaint about sexual harassment, they are most likely directed to our office, which I do believe 

is appropriate. But I would welcome any kind of coordination between the Ethics Committee and the Office of Compliance. I think 

that would be wonderful on this issue. 

One thing that I would also like to say in the context of all of 

this is we don’t want to limit this training or the Ethics coordination to just sex harassment. There are other kinds of—it is the 

issue of the day and the most important one. But there is harassment that occurs in other contexts, whether it is racial harassment, 

disability harassment, that the training should also address and 

try and stop. But, yes, nothing excites us more than the fact that 

Congress right now is looking at the issue from the standpoint of 

sex harassment. 

Mrs. BROOKS. Ms. Lett, any recommendation with respect to Ethics? 

Ms. LETT. One of the ideas I think that has been mentioned is 

the idea that there be a record of the employees having taken sexual harassment training, much like there is a record created when 

we take ethics training. And so I think that would be a great idea 

to coordinate with your committee to make sure that those records 

are maintained to show that employees have, indeed, received the 

training. 

Ms. CHILDS WALLACE. I agree with that a hundred percent. I 

think that is good. 

Mrs. BROOKS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, again, for including me. 

I yield back. 


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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. And I would also like to certainly 

thank Congresswoman Speier and Congresswoman Brooks for joining us today for this hearing. It has been very helpful to have your 

participation. 

Without objection, all Members will have 5 legislative days to 

submit to the Chair additional written questions for the witnesses 

which we will forward and ask the witnesses to respond as promptly as possible so that it can be a part of the record. 

I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. I know 

that Mr. Brady joins me in saying that it is apparent that mandatory training is a necessary first step to improving the House’s 

process to address sexual harassment in the workplace. 

The Committee will continue to review the testimony given 

today, work with Members, and make additional recommendations 

to strengthen the process to ensure that the congressional workplace, which includes not only the Members of Congress and their 

offices but includes all the officers of the House, the Architect, the 

Capitol Police—all of these things have to be included—Congressional Budget Office, and, of course, the Office of Compliance. All 

of these things were included in 1995 when Congress passed the 

Congressional Accountability Act. 

This type of behavior cannot be tolerated. And so I believe that 

raising the awareness today, we should set the standard of proper 

conduct in the workplace. And I hope this is the first step to getting there. 

Without objection—— 

Mr. BRADY. Chairman Harper. 

The CHAIRMAN. I will recognize Mr. Brady. 

Mr. BRADY. Just for one second. I just want to say something to 

my colleague from California that I didn’t agree with you. You said 

this is an uncomfortable thing for us to do. I have a wife, a daughter, two granddaughters, and a great granddaughter. It is not uncomfortable. It is our moral responsibility and obligation to protect 

somebody else’s wife, daughter, and granddaughters. So I thank 

you, and I thank you for your courage. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Brady. And I associate myself 

with your remarks that you just made. 

Without objection, this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:39 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 


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