From: Rosenstock, Steven [mailto:SRosenstock@eei.org]  

Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 11:08 AM

To: Richard Parker; Phil Hopkinson

Cc: Corkran, Jerry L; Christopher Bolduc; rick.anderson@faypwc.com; tballo@earthjustice.org;

ScottB@lvmetals.com; john.caskey@nema.org; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov;

adelaski@standardsasap.org; Teckman@nwcouncil.org; gbf1@pge.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com;

rgreeson@federalpacific.com; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; jhodge@howard.com; mhyland@appanet.org;

dave.millure@metglas.com; Nadel, Steve; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com;

Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; rroy@nrdc.org; robert.saint@nreca.coop;

chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; BermanEconomics@gmail.com; Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov;

greg.coulter405@gmail.com; Jim.creevy@nema.org; ahofmann@publicpower.org;

pkumar@publicpower.org; jmauer@standardsasap.org; Meyers, Aaron; jrossetti@mlgw.org;

Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com; mwaltner@nrdc.org;

kwinder@mleainc.com; Brian Coffey; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov;

jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov; Caitlin Johnson; Zhimei Luo; emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov; Michael

Rivest; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; charlied@uus.org; James.Lass@cleco.com; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net;

DYoung@energy‐solution.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider‐electric.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com;

vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; thomas.patzner@us.schneider‐electric.com;

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; Raba, Jim; Trujillo, Antonio; Marusinec, Richard M

Subject: RE: MV Liquid‐immersed LCC and NIA Results

Greetings!

  

On October 27, 2011, Mr. Bolduc sent the e‐mail below to the group.  What happened to this additional

analysis?

  

Steve Rosenstock

EEI

  

  

  

Mr. Petersen,

We can add an additional custom EL to the LCC results for DL 1 at
99.13%. These results will be prepared for the next meeting.

Thank you,

‐ Chris

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 10:58 AM,  <Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com> wrote:

>

> Mr. Parker,

>

> At the end of our last committee meeting, Mr. Rosenstock requested an

> additional Efficiency Level be considered between 0 and 1.

>

> I would like to emphasize our support of his request and inquire as to

> whether or not this analysis will be conducted?

>

> I would propose an Efficiency Level of 0.6, which would be 99.13% for a

> 50KVA transformer, be included in the analysis for consideration by the

> committee.

>

> Is it feasible to have this analysis conducted for the next meeting?

>

> Regards,

  

  

  

  

From: Richard Parker [mailto:richardparkerdc@gmail.com]

Sent: Thu 11/3/2011 8:58 AM

To: Phil Hopkinson

Cc: Corkran, Jerry L; Christopher Bolduc; rick.anderson@faypwc.com; tballo@earthjustice.org;

ScottB@lvmetals.com; john.caskey@nema.org; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov;

adelaski@standardsasap.org; Teckman@nwcouncil.org; gbf1@pge.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com;

rgreeson@federalpacific.com; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; jhodge@howard.com; mhyland@appanet.org;

dave.millure@metglas.com; Nadel, Steve; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com;

Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; Rosenstock, Steven; rroy@nrdc.org;
robert.saint@nreca.coop; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; BermanEconomics@gmail.com;

Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; Jim.creevy@nema.org;

ahofmann@publicpower.org; pkumar@publicpower.org; jmauer@standardsasap.org; Meyers, Aaron;

jrossetti@mlgw.org; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com;

mwaltner@nrdc.org; kwinder@mleainc.com; brian.coffey@navigant.com; kcoughlin@lbl.gov;

brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov; jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov; caitlin.johnson@navigant.com;

zhimei.luo@navigant.com; emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov; mrivest@navigant.com; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov;

charlied@uus.org; James.Lass@cleco.com; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net; DYoung@energy‐

solution.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider‐electric.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com;

vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; thomas.patzner@us.schneider‐electric.com;

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; Raba, Jim; Trujillo, Antonio; Marusinec, Richard M

Subject: Re: MV Liquid‐immersed LCC and NIA Results

Phil,

Thanks for your input, Phil.  There was no agreement in our last meeting or any meeting to limit the

analysis to M3.  Individual committee members may propose that outcome but that is a policy

preference, and I think you can appreciate that it would not be appropriate to limit the analysis to only

the options that certain committee members propose. The approach adopted by DOE consultants is

appropriate in this regard and we all appreciate the excellent contributions of many on this committee

to honing and refining that analysis.  

Best wishes,

Richard Parker

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Phil Hopkinson <phopkinson@hvolt.com> wrote:

Another thought on this:

Unfortunately the choices of M3 vs. amorphous are not maybe but are very black and white.  When M3

runs out of gas the switch is 100% to amorphous.  Hence if you want to remain on an M3 base then you

must exclude amorphous from the choices to the optimizer because it will try both materials but move

to a much flatter cost curve when it switches to amorphous.  The DOE material that was just issued

shows that dramatically.  My recommendation is to redo the material with M3 only and you will quickly

see that you cannot go past Efficiency 1 for any of the lines in a cost justified manner.

Best regards,

Phil
Philip J Hopkinson, PE

President & CEO HVOLT Inc.

3704 High Ridge Rd.

Charlotte, NC 28270

phopkinson@hvolt.com

Ph     704‐846‐3290

Fx     704‐845‐2520

Cell   704‐236‐3320

www.hvolt.com

‐‐‐‐‐Original Message‐‐‐‐‐ 

From: Phil Hopkinson

Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:57 PM

To: 'Corkran, Jerry L'; Christopher Bolduc; Richard Parker

Cc: rick.anderson@faypwc.com; tballo@earthjustice.org; ScottB@lvmetals.com;

john.caskey@nema.org; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov; adelaski@standardsasap.org;

Teckman@nwcouncil.org; gbf1@pge.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com;

bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; jhodge@howard.com; mhyland@appanet.org; dave.millure@metglas.com;

snadel@aceee.org; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com;

Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; srosenstock@eei.org; rroy@nrdc.org;

robert.saint@nreca.coop; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; BermanEconomics@gmail.com;

Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; Jim.creevy@nema.org;

ahofmann@publicpower.org; pkumar@publicpower.org; jmauer@standardsasap.org; Meyers, Aaron;

jrossetti@mlgw.org; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com;

mwaltner@nrdc.org; kwinder@mleainc.com; brian.coffey@navigant.com; kcoughlin@lbl.gov;

brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov; jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov; caitlin.johnson@navigant.com;

zhimei.luo@navigant.com; emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov; mrivest@navigant.com; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov;

charlied@uus.org; James.Lass@cleco.com; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net; DYoung@energy‐

solution.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider‐electric.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com;

vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; thomas.patzner@us.schneider‐electric.com;

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; Raba, Jim; Trujillo, Antonio; Marusinec, Richard M

Subject: RE: MV Liquid‐immersed LCC and NIA Results

It also ignores the desire to stay on an M3 base and appears to have unreasonably low cost of money as

well as inaccurately low cost per watt saved when moving from design efficiency 1 to 2, 2 to 3 etc.  This

is because you did not stay on an M3 base for such transitions.  At the last meeting you agreed to use

M3 as the basis.  When you do that the cost curve is very steep and each efficiency beyond the present

gets progressively steeper.

Your data shows the first efficiency as relatively expensive and each succeeding one to be considerably
less expensive.  If you really remained on M3 then you would not obtain such results.

I recommend that you redo the analysis with an M3 only base as was agreed at the meeting.  My report

does that and I believe that it is accurate.

Best regards,

Phil

Philip J Hopkinson, PE

President & CEO HVOLT Inc.

3704 High Ridge Rd.

Charlotte, NC 28270

phopkinson@hvolt.com

Ph     704‐846‐3290

Fx     704‐845‐2520

Cell   704‐236‐3320

www.hvolt.com

‐‐‐‐‐Original Message‐‐‐‐‐ 

From: Corkran, Jerry L [mailto:Jerry.Corkran@CooperIndustries.com]

Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:44 PM

To: Christopher Bolduc; Richard Parker

Cc: rick.anderson@faypwc.com; tballo@earthjustice.org; ScottB@lvmetals.com;

john.caskey@nema.org; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov; adelaski@standardsasap.org;

Teckman@nwcouncil.org; gbf1@pge.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com;

bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; jhodge@howard.com; mhyland@appanet.org; dave.millure@metglas.com;

snadel@aceee.org; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com;

Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; srosenstock@eei.org; rroy@nrdc.org;

robert.saint@nreca.coop; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; BermanEconomics@gmail.com;

Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; Jim.creevy@nema.org;

ahofmann@publicpower.org; pkumar@publicpower.org; jmauer@standardsasap.org; Meyers, Aaron;

jrossetti@mlgw.org; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com;

mwaltner@nrdc.org; kwinder@mleainc.com; brian.coffey@navigant.com; kcoughlin@lbl.gov;

brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov; jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov; caitlin.johnson@navigant.com;

zhimei.luo@navigant.com; emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov; mrivest@navigant.com; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov;

charlied@uus.org; Phil Hopkinson; James.Lass@cleco.com; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net;

DYoung@energy‐solution.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider‐electric.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com;
vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; thomas.patzner@us.schneider‐electric.com;

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; Raba, Jim; Trujillo, Antonio; Marusinec, Richard M

Subject: RE: MV Liquid‐immersed LCC and NIA Results

Christopher and Richard,

                               The attachment lacks the intermediate efficiency level between the base level and

level 1 which based on my understanding of what was discussed at the last meeting was requested and

agreed on by the group to be added.  Are the 0.5 efficiency level designs being made and when will they

be supplied to the working group?

Regards,

         Jerry Corkran

‐‐‐‐‐Original Message‐‐‐‐‐ 

From: Christopher Bolduc [mailto:cabolduc@lbl.gov]

Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:23 PM

To: Richard Parker

Cc: rick.anderson@faypwc.com; tballo@earthjustice.org; ScottB@lvmetals.com;

john.caskey@nema.org; Corkran, Jerry L; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov; adelaski@standardsasap.org;

Teckman@nwcouncil.org; gbf1@pge.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com;

bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; jhodge@howard.com; mhyland@appanet.org; dave.millure@metglas.com;

snadel@aceee.org; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com;

Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; srosenstock@eei.org; rroy@nrdc.org;

robert.saint@nreca.coop; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; BermanEconomics@gmail.com;

Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; Jim.creevy@nema.org;

ahofmann@publicpower.org; pkumar@publicpower.org; jmauer@standardsasap.org; Meyers, Aaron;

jrossetti@mlgw.org; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com;

mwaltner@nrdc.org; kwinder@mleainc.com; cabolduc@lbl.gov; brian.coffey@navigant.com;

kcoughlin@lbl.gov; brenda.edwards@ee.doe.gov; jeremiah.freeman@ee.doe.gov;

caitlin.johnson@navigant.com; zhimei.luo@navigant.com; emily.marchetti@ee.doe.gov;

mrivest@navigant.com; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; charlied@uus.org; phopkinson@hvolt.com;

James.Lass@cleco.com; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net; DYoung@energy‐solution.com;

chad.kennedy@us.schneider‐electric.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com;

vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; thomas.patzner@us.schneider‐electric.com;

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; Raba, Jim

Subject: MV Liquid‐immersed LCC and NIA Results

Dear Committee Members,

Please find the draft LCC and NIA results for liquid‐immersed medium‐voltage transformers (design lines

1 ‐ 5) attached.
A summary of changes and additional sensitivities will be distributed before next week's meeting.

Thank you,

‐‐ Chris Bolduc

‐‐‐‐ 

Chris Bolduc

Energy Efficiency Standards Group

Environmental Energy Technologies Division Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory t. 416‐535‐7546 c.

647‐832‐4021