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85–219 2013

S. HRG. 113–127 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING 

BRINKMANSHIP 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE 

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

SEPTEMBER 18, 2013 

Printed for the use of the Joint Economic Committee 

( 
(II) 

JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE 

[Created pursuant to Sec. 5(a) of Public Law 304, 79th Congress] 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

KEVIN BRADY, Texas, Chairman 

JOHN CAMPBELL, California 

SEAN P. DUFFY, Wisconsin 

JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan 

ERIK PAULSEN, Minnesota 

RICHARD L. HANNA, New York 

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York 

LORETTA SANCHEZ, California 

ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland 

JOHN DELANEY, Maryland 

SENATE 

AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota, Vice Chair 

ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania 

MARK R. WARNER, Virginia 

BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont 

CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut 

MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico 

DAN COATS, Indiana 

MIKE LEE, Utah 

ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi 

PAT TOOMEY, Pennsylvania 

ROBERT P. O’QUINN, Executive Director 

NILES GODES, Democratic Staff Director 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS OF MEMBERS

Hon. Amy Klobuchar, Vice Chair, a U.S. Senator from Minnesota ..................... 1 

Hon. Kevin Brady, Chairman, a U.S. Representative from Texas ...................... 4 

WITNESSES

Dr. Mark Zandi, Chief Economist, Moody’s Analytics Future, West Chester, 

PA .......................................................................................................................... 6 

Hon. David Malpass, President, Encima Global LLC, New York, NY ................ 7 

Hon. Donald Marron, Institute Fellow and Director of Economic Policy Initiatives, Urban Institute, Washington, DC ............................................................ 9 

Dr. Daniel J. Mitchell, Senior Fellow, Cato Institute, Washington, DC ............. 11 

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

Prepared statement of Hon. Kevin Brady ............................................................. 30 

Prepared statement of Dr. Mark Zandi ................................................................. 32 

Prepared statement of Hon. David Malpass .......................................................... 43 

Prepared statement of Hon. Donald Marron ......................................................... 45 

Prepared statement of Dr. Daniel J. Mitchell ....................................................... 53 

Report titled ‘‘The Economic Costs of Debt-Ceiling Brinkmanship’’ submitted 

by Vice Chair Klobuchar ..................................................................................... 56 

(1) 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING 

BRINKMANSHIP 

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 2013 

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE, Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 2:33 p.m. in Room 216 

of the Hart Senate Office Building, the Honorable Amy Klobuchar, 

Vice Chair, presiding. 

Representatives present: Brady of Texas, Campbell, Carolyn 

B. Maloney, Cummings, and Delaney. 

Senators present: Klobuchar, Casey, Warner, Murphy, Coats, 

and Wicker. 

Staff present: Corey Astill, Doug Branch, Hank Butler, Conor 

Carroll, Gail Cohen, Sarah Elkins, Connie Foster, Niles Godes, Colleen Healy, and Robert O’Quinn. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. AMY KLOBUCHAR, VICE 

CHAIR, A U.S. SENATOR FROM MINNESOTA 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Okay, thanks to everyone. I would like 

to call this hearing to order today. I am joined by the Chairman 

of the Committee, Mr. Brady, as well as a number of Members. I 

thank you for being here. 

I would also like to welcome—maybe I will wait until they come 

in, some of our guests; I do not think they are here yet—here they 

come. We have a number of guests visiting us today from the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. They are in the United 

States as part of the Boston College Irish Institute’s Joined-Up 

Program. Thank you for being here. You are in for a treat, let me 

tell you. 

We have a very important topic today. I would like to introduce 

our witnesses. 

We have first of all Dr. Mark Zandi who is the Chief Economist 

at Moody’s, where he directs economic research. Dr. Zandi was an 

advisor to the presidential campaign of Senator McCain and has 

provided economic advice to Congress for many, many years. 

Secondly, The Honorable David Malpass is the President of 

Encima Global, an economic research and consulting firm based in 

New York. He served as Deputy Assistant Treasury Secretary 

under Ronald Reagan, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under 

President George H.W. Bush, and Republican Staff Director of the 

Joint Economic Committee. That’s the most important credential 

that you have. 

[Laughter.] 
2 

We also have The Honorable David Marron who is an institute 

Fellow and Director of Economic Policy Initiatives at the Urban Institute. He served as a member of the Council of Economic Advisers 

under President George W. Bush, and as the Acting Director of the 

Congressional Budget Office. He was the Executive Director of the 

Joint Economic Committee under Chairman Robert Bennett. There 

we are, another former Joint Economic Committee staff member. 

He recently served as a member of the Rivlin-Domenici Debt Reduction Task Force. We have actually had Alice Rivlin here to testify, so thank you. 

Also, Dr. Daniel Mitchell is a Senior Fellow at the CATO Institute where he specializes in tax reform policy. He was previously 

a Senior Fellow with the Heritage Foundation and an economist on 

the Senate Finance Committee. He also served on the 1988 Bush/ 

Quayle transition team and was Director of Tax and Budget Policy 

for Citizens for a Sound Economy. 

You may think it interesting that we have four Republican witnesses here when I am chairing the hearing, but I think it goes to 

show this is a bipartisan issue and something that we have to come 

together on as a country, and there are differences among our witnesses, as we will soon see. 

In the summer of 2011, the United States experienced some of 

the costs of a protracted debt-ceiling showdown. As Congress struggled to raise the debt ceiling, the Dow Jones Industrial Average 

dropped more than 2,000 points, and Standard and Poor’s downgraded the U.S. credit rating. Consumer confidence also fell sharply. 

During that debate, I heard from nearly 20 CEOs of major companies in my state urging Congress to set partisan divisions aside 

and reach an agreement to raise the debt ceiling. 

The delay in lifting the debt ceiling and the resulting uncertainty 

meant that the Treasury had to pay higher yields than otherwise 

would have been necessary, costing taxpayers $1.3 billion. 

After the 2011 debt-ceiling showdown, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke told this Committee in very blunt language 

that ‘‘It’s no way to run a railroad.’’ He is right. 

We now find ourselves in a similar situation: the Federal Government effectively reached its borrowing limit on May 19th, 2013. 

The Treasury Department has taken extraordinary measures since 

then to postpone default for several months. 

Last month, Treasury Secretary Lew informed Congress that 

those extraordinary measures would run out in mid-October. In 

other words, we have about a month left to take action that will 

allow the U.S. Government to pay our bills—while we are at the 

same time of course facing, with the Continuing Resolution issue, 

potential government shutdown. 

We should learn from our experience in 2011—and not repeat it. 

We have seen this show before, and it reminds me of like a bad 

rerun of ‘‘Three’s Company.’’ We don’t have to have this happen. 

We can actually get this done. 

There is broad agreement that a default would cause significant 

harm to the economy. It would disrupt financial markets, limit access to credit, and raise financing costs. It would also trigger a run 
3 

on money market funds and force the Federal Government to renege on commitments to individuals, businesses, and governments. 

For consumers, higher credit costs would mean less borrowing for 

purchases of homes, cars, or other durable goods. Businesses could 

face difficulties accessing short-term financing. 

A default would also require the Federal Government to suspend 

payments to creditors, program beneficiaries, and others. Delays in 

Social Security checks, Veterans benefits, and other programs 

would have a direct impact on millions of Americans and would 

negatively affect the economy by depressing consumer spending. 

Because a default would cause significant harm to the economy, 

even the mere prospect, as we’ve learned from the past, even the 

mere prospect of a default can affect the decision-making of households and businesses and slow economic growth. 

As discussed in the report that I released this morning on the 

costs of debt-ceiling brinkmanship, Congress has raised the debt 

ceiling more than 70 times since 1962, and voted on the debt limit 

12 times since 2002. This is part of our responsibility. 

It is also clear that Democrats and Republicans need to come together on a long-term budget plan and focus on smart, balanced solutions to reducing our debt. We have had many discussions about 

this right here in this Committee. I am in the group of Senators 

that wants to go big; that believes we need to take the principles 

from the Debt Commission report, as well as the Rivlin/Domenici 

report, and take those and put them into action. But the place to 

do that is not at the last minute on the debt-ceiling issue. 

The Senate and House have each passed a budget. The President 

has been reaching out to Democrats and Republicans about the 

need to move forward on a budget deal. Many of my colleagues, including Senator McCain and Senator Collins, have joined Democrats to say we need to go to conference and agree on a budget that 

will allow us to address our fiscal challenges in a bipartisan way. 

While we have to do more to move the Nation forward toward 

fiscal responsibility, it is important to note that Congress has already taken steps to reduce deficits by at least $2.4 trillion over the 

next 10 years. 

But the vast majority of the savings to date comes from spending 

cuts. If sequestration continues, the ratio of spending cuts to revenue increases will be four-to-one, which is not the ratio even suggested by the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and 

Reform. 

The Senate-passed budget also calls for a roughly even split between additional spending cuts and revenue increases. 

In addition to addressing the budget and raising the debt ceiling, 

there are a number of actions Congress should take to make sure 

that our economy continues to grow. 

One of them I will tell you is passing the Immigration bill: $160 

billion in debt reduction over 10 years, around $700 billion in 20 

years. 

If you look at the Farm Bill, $24 billion reducing the debt over 

the last Farm Bill. You can go through a number of things that I 

think would make a difference for the economy and make things 

positive for the economy. Brinkmanship on the debt ceiling is not 

one of them. It will move us backwards and not forwards. 
4 

I thank you to our witnesses, and look forward to hearing from 

you. 

Mr. Brady. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. KEVIN BRADY, CHAIRMAN, A 

U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM TEXAS 

Chairman Brady. Vice Chair Klobuchar, our Distinguished Witnesses, and our Guests from the Republic of Ireland and Northern 

Ireland, welcome. 

On this Committee we often jest that Minnesota’s delegation 

tends to dominate the Joint Economic Committee. I just want to 

give warning: As an Irishman, I have brought my reinforcements 

today. 

[Laughter.] 

Vice Chair Klobuchar and I agree that political brinkmanship 

over raising the debt ceiling is costly to our economy. I just wish 

President Obama felt as we do. His declaration this past weekend, 

quote, ‘‘What I haven’t been willing to negotiate, and I will not negotiate, is on the debt ceiling’’—represents the inflexible brinkmanship that the American people deplore. 

Despite the recent decline in the federal budget deficit, future 

projections are troubling. Add to that an ever-growing national 

debt, Medicare whose main Trust Fund runs empty within 12 

years; and Social Security that had to borrow nearly $150 billion 

last year from foreign investors and the Fed, simply to make payments to our seniors. As Dr. Zandi noted in his testimony, ‘‘ . . . the 

long term fiscal outlook remains disconcerting.’’ 

This bleak outlook hurts middle-class families and the 20 million 

Americans who cannot find a full-time job today in the weakest recovery since World War II. 

That is why House Republicans have reasonably and prudently 

passed a bill to take default off the table and invited the President 

to sit down together—today—to find a bipartisan solution that puts 

Washington on a responsible fiscal path through pro-growth tax reform, ending wasteful spending, and taking substantive steps to extend the lives of Medicare and Social Security. 

Children born today in America owe nearly $50,000 as their 

share of the national debt. In other words, they owe a Lexus to 

Uncle Sam. If Washington does not change its spending ways by 

the time they reach 13 years old, they will owe another Lexus. And 

when they graduate from college ready to begin their career, they 

will owe yet a third. 

Of course young people do not buy luxury sedans for Uncle Sam. 

Instead, they pay the price for this generation’s spending addiction 

through a sluggish economy with higher taxes and higher interest 

rates. So if they are able to find a job, they will have lower wages 

and keep less of their paycheck to pursue their American Dream. 

For the first time in our history, we cannot be confident that the 

next generation of Americans will be better off than the current 

one. That is unacceptable. 

Admittedly, the debt ceiling is an imperfect vehicle to control the 

growth of federal spending. I would prefer that Congress and state 

legislatures amend the U.S. Constitution to limit the growth of federal spending and require a balanced budget except during war or 
5 

emergencies. However, the debt ceiling remains an effective tool for 

Congress and the President to reach bipartisan consensus on measures to limit the growth of federal spending and reform entitlements. 

Both parties, Democrats and Republicans, have used the debt 

ceiling as a responsible means to shore up America’s financial 

house—the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 came about 

through debt ceiling negotiations between Congressional Democrats 

and President Bush, and the Budget Control Act of 2011 came 

about through debt ceiling negotiations between House Republicans 

and President Obama. 

It is irresponsible to give the White House another blank check. 

Instead, it is responsible to limit the growth of federal spending 

and secure the future of entitlement programs in exchange for raising the debt ceiling. 

If now is not the time to tackle Washington’s spending addiction, 

when is? Perhaps brinkmanship is just another word for a long 

over intervention. 

One of today’s witnesses, Dr. Mitchell, summarized good fiscal 

policy in a simple golden rule: Private output should grow faster 

than government spending. In other words, Main Street should 

grow faster than Washington. I agree. 

Some advocates of ‘‘big government’’ claim that modest savings 

from the recent sequester are decimating government services and 

threatening economic growth. The reality is that since the recession 

ended, real federal consumption and investment spending has 

grown faster than real GDP—6.4 percent compared with 4.6. The 

sequester is merely asking this 500-pound Federal Government to 

lose 10 pounds. 

What ails our economy is not too little government, but too 

much. Therefore, I will soon reintroduce the Maximizing America’s 

Prosperity or the MAP Act to limit the growth of federal spending 

through a new, innovative spending cap—non-interest spending as 

a percentage of potential GDP. 

Using non-interest outlays as the numerator in the spending cap 

forces Congress to limit what it can control—program spending— 

through appropriations bills and changes in entitlement legislation, 

but not what it can’t—interest outlays—that are determined by 

past spending decisions and the Fed’s monetary policy. 

Using potential GDP as the denominator eliminates the boom 

and bust cyclicality in spending caps tied to GDP. The growth of 

GDP fluctuates with the business cycle, allowing blowout spending 

in boom years and then forcing deep cuts during recession. Using 

potential GDP provides a more stable, solid path for federal spending over time. 

Vice Chairman Klobuchar and I might not agree on what’s the 

right level for a spending cap, but we should be able to agree on 

the right metrics. And non-interest spending as a percent of potential GDP is that right metric. 

I look forward to the testimony of today’s witnesses. 

[The prepared statement of Chairman Brady appears in the Submissions for the Record on page 30.] 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Chairman 

Brady. Why don’t we begin with Dr. Zandi. 
6 

STATEMENT OF DR. MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, 

MOODY’S ANALYTICS, WEST CHESTER, PA 

Dr. Zandi. Thank you, Vice Chair Klobuchar, and Chairman 

Brady, and the rest of the Committee. I welcome the opportunity 

to be here today. 

I am an employee of the Moody’s Corp., but the views I express 

today are my own. I would like to make four points in my oral remarks: 

First, the Treasury debt limit must be increased by the last two 

weeks of October. By my calculation, the day the limit will be 

breached is probably October 18th. That’s a day when Treasury has 

to make a payment to Medicare and Medicaid providers. 

It is of course very uncertain because of the timing and size of 

tax payments, so I do not know that for sure. I think the latest possible date that the limit has to be increased is November 1st. That 

is when a Social Security payment has to be made. 

So in the last two weeks, it is very important that you raise the 

debt limit by that point in time. 

The second point: If you do not raise the debt limit in time, you 

will be opening an economic Pandora’s Box. It will be devastating 

to the economy. 

Now let me first say, I would not take any solace in the fact that 

financial markets are not going to react up until the day that you 

need to raise the limit. As Senator Klobuchar has said, we have 

seen this show before. And each time the show ends with you signing on the dotted line just in time. Financial markets fully expect 

that you will do that this go-around. So I do not expect to see much 

going on in financial markets up until the time that the limit is 

going to be breached. 

If you do not do it in time, confidence will evaporate. Consumer 

confidence will sharply decline. Investor confidence, business confidence, businesses will stop hiring, consumers will stop spending. 

The Stock Market will fall significantly in value. Borrowing costs 

for businesses and households will rise. 

The other big hit to the economy of course is that the Treasury 

will have to eliminate its cash deficit and only spend what it is receiving in cash. By my calculation, in November that is about $130 

billion. You annualized that, that is 9 percent of GDP. That comes 

right out of the economy. We will be in the middle of a very, very 

severe recession, and I do not see how we’d get out of it. There is 

no monetary policy response in the current context. We are already 

at a zero interest rate. I just don’t see what policymakers will do. 

So point number two is: You have to do something about the debt 

limit, D-day. 

Point number three: To address the debt limit I would not add 

to the near-term fiscal austerity. We have a significant amount of 

austerity entrained. This year, you add up the effect of the spending cuts and the tax increases, it’s about 11⁄2 percentage points of 

GDP, that’s the most fiscal drag this economy has had to digest 

since just after World War II during the War drawdowns. 

So just for context, if fiscal policy was just neutral with respect 

to the economy, zero, given that the economy is growing 2 percent 

with the drag, we would be growing 31⁄2 percent right now. So that 

is quite significant. That is a significant drag. 
7 

Now the drag will fade under current, last, next year, and the 

year after, but it is quite significant. I would not add to it in your 

attempts and efforts to address the debt limit. So that is point 

number three. 

The final point, point number four, is that it is entirely appropriate and desirable for you to address our long-term fiscal problems. They are quite significant and daunting. Under current law, 

under reasonable economic assumptions, we are going to have a big 

problem a decade out. When you move into the 2020s and 2030s, 

the deficit will rise sharply and the debt load will become 

unsustainable. So it is very important for you to start focusing on 

that. 

Now that may be a bridge too far in the current context because 

again you have to raise the debt limit by the last two weeks of October. So at the very least, I would be focusing on reforms to the 

budget process in terms of adopting things that will create transparency with respect to budgeting longer run things like adopting 

generational accounting, fiscal GAPP accounting. I would extend 

the budget horizon past 10 years so that we can start doing some 

entitlement reform and really see what the impact will be in the 

longer run. 

And finally, I would repeal the debt limit. It is very counterproductive. And if you cannot manage that, there are some reforms 

to the debt limit that can be implemented to make this much more 

effective and a lot less destructive. 

Let me finally say, I think our economy is on the verge of some 

very strong growth. The only missing ingredient is a decision, a 

reasonable decision in a timely way on the budget and the debt 

limit. If you can do that, we are going to be off and running. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Mark Zandi appears in the Submissions for the Record on page 32.] 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Very good. Thanks for ending on that 

good note, and the opportunities that we have. 

Thank you. 

Mr. Malpass. 

STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID MALPASS, PRESIDENT, ENCIMA 

GLOBAL LLC, NEW YORK, NY 

Mr. Malpass. Thank you very much. Hello, Vice Chairman 

Klobuchar, Chairman Brady, and Members of the Committee. 

Thank you for the invitation to testify on the debt limit. I will try 

to have some upbeat thoughts as I go along, as well. 

The debt limit increase is a vital economic and legislative issue. 

The national debt already exceeds the Nation’s annual output, and 

the Administration is now requesting that Congress increase the 

debt limit above $17 trillion. 

As part of providing this increase, I think there should be an 

honest, national debate on federal spending priorities, and an 

agreement with the President on constructive spending restraint. 

There is a huge economic upside for jobs, investment, the Stock 

Market, and the dollar if you could lower the federal spending 

path, or rewrite the debt limit to make it more effective. 
8 

The Federal Government is spending nearly $3.6 trillion every 

year, and is planning to increase spending rapidly in coming years, 

even with the sequester and the underfunding of national defense. 

Some of the spending is successful and adds to the Nation’s 

wellbeing, but another portion of the spending—several hundred 

billion dollars—is not successful enough to justify the taxes and 

debt used to pay it. This has created a spending and debt crisis 

that harms the economy and undermines investment and jobs. 

The crisis is particularly acute because several categories of federal spending will need to increase over the next two decades as 

the Baby Boom ages and requires more government services. 

Given this demographic and interest rate cycle, spending and 

debt should be at lower than normal levels now in order to prepare 

for the coming increases. In addition, the maturity of the national 

debt held by the private sector should be longer than normal. Instead, the Fed’s bond purchases have materially shortened the effective maturity of the national debt, and both spending and debt 

are at record levels even though the demographic bulge is just beginning to hit the federal budget. 

This leaves fiscal policy completely out of sync with long-term 

economic growth. The debt limit provides a good opportunity to address this crisis. In negotiating the next increase, Congress and the 

Administration should take steps to downsize current spending and 

slow future spending growth. 

It is also vital to improve the allocation of spending. Less-successful government programs should be reduced in order to make 

room for new programs and for more spending on successful programs. 

In my August 30th Wall Street Journal column I advocated a 

menu approach in which the various parties suggest numerous 

methods to reduce spending, and then negotiate a compromise. 

I have advocated replacing the debt limit with legislation to establish continuous spending restraint that strengthens when the 

debt-to-GDP ratio rises above a ceiling. I was privileged to work for 

Senator Bill Roth on this Committee in 1990 when he wanted to 

create a 50 percent debt-to-GDP limit. 

Unfortunately, the debt ratio is now more than double that, and 

it will take many years of continuous spending restraint to restore 

a more pro-growth debt level. In the ideal, there should be a downward glide path for the debt ratio. A new law would set gradually 

lower debt-to-GDP limits which, if exceeded, would require Congress and the Administration to reduce their spending commitments or face escalating procedural restraints on spending. 

In making budget decisions, one of the confusing issues is whether austerity is bad for growth. Austerity or fiscal consolidation encompasses two separate economic policies: government downsizing 

on the one hand, which causes more growth; and private-sector 

downsizing on the other hand, which causes recessions. 

Many of the reform programs undertaken in Europe that have 

been labeled ‘‘austerity programs’’ were harmful because they were 

built on private-sector austerity not government downsizing. The 

austerity often took the form of higher value-added taxes, wealth 

taxes, and increases in government fees. 
9 

As the U.S. examines its options, it should aim to reduce ineffective spending. It drains the private sector because it requires new 

taxes or debt. An open Washington discussion of spending restraint, even a contentious one, using a menu of options as I’ve 

suggested would receive a very positive market reaction. 

So in conclusion, the U.S. is stuck in a new normal of very slow 

economic growth, high unemployment, and falling median incomes. 

Federal spending and debt trends are weighing on growth and investment. The debt limit provides an opportunity to break out. The 

Administration and Congress should create a menu of constructive 

restraints and agree on a package. 

Movement in this direction would create a very positive economic 

and market reaction. Changes made now, even if they take effect 

in several years, would bring immediate benefits by improving the 

debt outlook. 

Thank you, very much. 

[The prepared statement of David Malpass appears in the Submissions for the Record on page 43.] 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Thank you very much. 

Dr. Marron. 

STATEMENT OF HON. DONALD MARRON, INSTITUTE FELLOW 

AND DIRECTOR OF ECONOMIC POLICY INITIATIVES, THE 

URBAN INSTITUTE, WASHINGTON, DC 

Dr. Marron. Thanks. This is a real treat to be here. Vice Chair 

Klobuchar, Chairman Brady, and Members of the Committee: 

Thank you for inviting me to discuss the debt limit. It is a particular pleasure for me to appear today before this Committee, 

since it gave me my start in public service a bit more than a decade 

ago. 

I would like to make six basic points today: 

First, Congress has to increase the debt limit. Failure to do so 

will result in severe economic harm. Treasury would have to delay 

billions, then tens of billions, then hundreds of billions of dollars 

of payments. Through no fault of their own, federal employees, contractors, program beneficiaries, and state and local governments 

would find themselves suddenly short of expected cash, creating a 

ripple effect through the economy. 

A prolonged delay would be a powerful anti-stimulus that could 

easily push our economy back into a recession, as Mark said. 

In addition, there is a risk that we might default on the federal 

debt. Now I should emphasize that I expect that Treasury will do 

everything in its power to make debt service payments on time, if 

it’s pushed to the limit, but there is a risk that it won’t succeed. 

Indeed, we have precedent for this. In 1979, Treasury accidently 

defaulted on a small sliver of debt in the wake of a debt limit showdown. That default was narrow in scope, but financial markets reacted badly and interest rates spiked. 

If a debt limit impasse forced Treasury to default today, the results would be much more severe. Interest rates would spike. Credit would tighten. Financial institutions would scramble for cash, 

and savers might desert money market funds. Anyone who remembers the financial crisis should shudder at the prospect of reliving 

such disruptions. 
10 

Second, Treasury doesn’t have any super-extraordinary measures 

hidden away in a desk drawer if the debt limit is not raised in 

time. Pundits have suggested that Treasury might sidestep the 

debt limit by invoking the Fourteenth Amendment, minting extremely large platinum coins, or selling gold and other federal assets. But Administration officials have said that none of those 

strategies would actually work. 

Third, debt limit brinkmanship is costly even if Congress raises 

the limit at the last minute. As we saw in 2011, brinkmanship increases interest rates and federal borrowing costs. 

The Bipartisan Policy Center, building on work by the Government Accountability Office, estimates that that crisis will cost taxpayers almost $19 billion in extra interest costs. Brinkmanship also 

increases uncertainty, reduces confidence, and thus undermines the 

economy. 

In 2011, for example, consumer confidence and the stock market 

both plummeted while measures of financial risk skyrocketed. 

Finally, brinkmanship weakens America’s global image. The 

United States is the only major nation whose leaders talk openly 

about self-inflicted default. At the risk of sounding like Vladimir 

Putin, such exceptionalism is not healthy. 

[Laughter.] 

Fourth, as this Committee knows well, our economy remains 

fragile. Now is not the time to hit it with unnecessary shocks. 

Fifth, as the CBO confirmed yesterday, the long-run budget outlook remains challenging. Deficits have fallen sharply in the past 

few years, but current budget policies would still create an 

unsustainable trajectory of debt in coming decades. 

Congress should address that problem, but the near-term fiscal 

priorities are funding the government and increasing the debt 

limit. 

Finally, Congress should rethink the debt limit and indeed the 

entire budget process. Borrowing decisions cannot be made in a 

vacuum separate from other fiscal choices. America borrows today 

because this and previous Congresses chose to spend more than we 

take in—sometimes with good reason, sometimes not. 

If Congress is concerned about debt, it needs to act when it 

makes those spending and revenue decisions, not months or years 

later when financial obligations are already in place. 

When the dust settles on our immediate challenges, Congress 

should re-examine the entire budget process, seeking ways to make 

it more effective and less susceptible to dangerous after-the-fact 

brinkmanship. 

Now I have completely failed at the challenge of saying something upbeat, so in conclusion let me say that I think actually all 

of these challenges are soluble with good spirit and working together. And thank you for inviting me to appear today. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Donald Marron appears in the 

Submissions for the Record on page 45.] 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Thank you very much. 

Dr. Mitchell. 
11 

STATEMENT OF DR. DANIEL J. MITCHELL, SENIOR FELLOW, 

CATO INSTITUTE, WASHINGTON, DC 

Dr. Mitchell. Thank you very much, Vice Chair Klobuchar, 

Chairman Brady, and other Members of the Committee: 

I have five points I want to make. I am a centrist. I am between 

Mark’s four points and Donald’s six points. 

First, it is very important to understand that our chief fiscal 

problem is excessive federal spending. Deficits and debt are undesirable, of course, but they are simply ways of financing government spending; and the other ways of financing government spending—higher taxes and printing money—they are also undesirable. 

In other words, we should look at government spending on things 

that it is not very efficient at doing. That is sort of the underlying 

disease, and deficits and debt are symptoms, but so are higher 

taxes. 

Second, the best way to gauge good fiscal policy, as Chairman 

Brady indicates, is to try to control government spending so it 

grows slower than private sector economic output. If you do that, 

you are shrinking the burden of federal spending as a share of 

GDP over time and you get a very positive self-reinforcing cycle in 

that ratio of government spending as a share of GDP where the numerator is shrinking and denominator is growing. 

If you do not do that, if you allow government to grow faster over 

an extended period of time than the private sector, sooner or 

later—it might be 5 years, it might be 50 years—but sooner or 

later, you are going to wind up like Greece. Because it is a mathematical certainty that if government for a long period of time grows 

faster than the private sector, you get in trouble. 

Why? The private sector is your tax base. And if government is 

always growing faster than the private sector, no amount of tax increases in the long run are going to solve the problem. And that 

is assuming that you identify fiscal balance as the problem rather 

than the overall burden of government spending. 

Third, I want to say something very optimistic. It is possible to 

make rapid progress with even a modest amount of spending restraint. Consider what has happened in the past two years. 

For the first time in five decades, the government spending in 

nominal terms has shrunk, where government spent less last year 

than the year before, and less that year than it spent before that. 

And what has happened during that two-year period? Well the burden of government spending has fallen from 24.1 percent of GDP 

to 21.5 percent of GDP. And for those who focus on red ink, it is 

worth noting that that period of fiscal restraint resulted in our deficit going from $1.3 trillion to $642 billion. 

And indeed, if we maintain some sort of fiscal discipline going 

forward, it is amazing how quickly we can make progress. If government grows just 1 percent a year, we balance the budget in 3 

years. If it grows 2 percent a year, we balance the budget in 4 

years. And if we let government grow 3 percent a year, we balance 

the budget in 7 years. 

Indeed, it is worth noting what happened in Canada in the 

1990s. They had a 5-year period where government spending grew 

1 percent a year—and this was mostly under a liberal party control 

in Canada at the time—in that 5-year period, they went from hav-
12 

ing a 9 percent of GDP deficit at the start, to a small budget surplus at the end. 

And it is worth noting that of course their economy grew faster, 

not slower, as the burden of government spending fell. 

My fourth point is that an increase in the debt ceiling is not 

needed to avoid default; it is needed to avoid messy budgeting; it 

is needed to avoid some of the complications with payments to providers, state and local governments, and all those other things that 

Donald mentioned. But when you have annual interest payments 

of $230 billion, roughly, and annual tax revenues approaching $3 

trillion, you do not need to be a mathematical genius to realize that 

the Treasury Department should be able to manage that and avoid 

default, even though, as I said, it would be a messy process for 

other parts of the budget. 

Indeed, I even quote Donald in my testimony—but since he is 

here, let me go ahead and cite two other people: Stan Collender 

said, quote: ‘‘ . . . it’s worth taking a few steps back from the edge’’ 

‘‘ . . . a default wouldn’t be automatic because payments to existing 

bondholders could be made the priority while payments to others 

could be delayed for months.’’ 

The Economist Magazine said, quote, ‘‘Even with no increase in 

the ceiling, the Treasury can easily service its existing debt; it is 

free to roll over maturing issues, and tax revenue covers monthly 

interest payments by a large multiple.’’ 

The only caveat would be if for some reason the Treasury Department did not want to pay interest on the debt, and I do not 

think that is realistic or likely at all. 

My final point is that a fight on the debt limit might be worthwhile if it generates some sort of good fiscal policy outcome. And 

let’s look at Greece as an example of what not to do. 

There is nothing akin to a debt limit in that country. But imagine there was. And imagine that a group of lawmakers, say 15 

years ago, dug in their heels and said, no, we are not going to allow 

more red ink. That probably would have caused a lot of turmoil at 

the time, but if the net result was to force Greek politicians to restrain the growth of spending over a multi-year period, then it is 

quite likely that the people of Greece would have been spared the 

economic and fiscal misery that they are suffering right now. 

Let’s close with an analogy. Yesterday’s long-run fiscal outlook 

from CBO shows that a do-nothing or status quo approach guarantees fiscal chaos. In other words, we are in a car. We are heading 

toward a cliff. We do not know whether we are going to hit that 

cliff in 5 years, 25 years, but if we do not take steps now when it 

is relatively easy, we will eventually cause a crisis. 

So I suggest that we should begin to steer away from the cliff, 

perhaps by adopting something similar to Switzerland’s debt break, 

which is of course akin to Congressman Brady’s MAP Act, to impose annual limits on the growth of government spending. 

Thank you, very much. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Daniel J. Mitchell appears in the 

Submissions for the Record on page 53.] 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Dr. Mitchell. I 

wanted to first touch on this concept that if we just let this go that 

we are okay. 
13 

I guess history for me means something. When you look back at 

what happened in 2011, costing taxpayers $1.3 billion because of 

the higher yields that had to be paid, and this is in our report; the 

fact that we had the Dow drop 2,000 points; the fact that we had 

our credit rating downgraded. And from what I have heard from 

these credit rating agencies, we can expect this to happen again at 

great peril to our economy. 

Just as you have pointed out, Dr. Zandi, we have this possibility 

of actually gaining ground right now vis-a-vis the rest of the world. 

So could you respond to some of the other witnesses here in 

terms of what they have said? And I think Dr. Marron also noted 

even a small lapse of the debt ceiling in a certain area created 

some major problems. 

Dr. Zandi. Yes. I think the 2011 experience is obviously very instructive. I think the difference between the experience we are 

going to go through over the next few weeks and then, then investors really had no roadmap. They did not have the good sense of 

how Congress would behave and whether you would come together 

at the end and sign on the dotted line. 

It came pretty close, and it did create a lot of angst, and markets 

fell, and confidence eroded, and it is costing us even to this day in 

the form of a higher interest rate. 

But in the current context, I think people and investors are fully 

anticipating that at the end of the next few weeks when we reach 

that day of reckoning when there is no way for the Treasury to use 

extraordinary measures to navigate around the limit, that you are 

going to act. And that is why you are not seeing anything in financial markets. That is why stocks prices—— 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Do any of the witnesses think that the 

President will sign a bill, or the Senate will pass a bill that either 

defunds Obamacare or delays the funding of Obamacare? Because 

that is what is attached to the House CR, one of them, and then 

to the—right now, to the debt ceiling proposal. 

Dr. Zandi. Right. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. And so that is my concern, when we 

talk about brinkmanship, is that that is what is there right now. 

And I completely understand using a discussion of the debt ceiling 

as a way to talk about our debt, and I have been supportive of the 

efforts of the Gang of Eight, and these other groups, and have supported their work and would like to move forward, and thought 

that Speaker Boehner and the President were not that far apart in 

their negotiations at the end of the last year, which would have 

meant we would have had a much more long-term approach to debt 

reduction than the kind of band-aid we got at the end of the year. 

I just wanted to turn, Dr. Marron, to—— 

Mr. Malpass. Madam Chairman, you asked what could the Senate do, and I think the Senate could respond to the House with alternative versions of spending restraint. 

The House is looking at it saying we do not want to spend money 

on this. And so it is incumbent on the Senate to come back and say, 

okay, we disagree with that, but we would like to see reductions 

in spending in this other area. So that you get a negotiation process going. 
14 

The market would respond very favorably to that, if your response was one of reasonable offers of spending reduction. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Well I think when you look at the CR, 

there is not a set number right now on the CR. And I think that 

negotiations on that number could occur. But the issue is that we 

are not even there because what we have been told is we cannot 

get this bill unless we defund Obamacare. 

And I just wanted to go to one last point here, Dr. Marron, about 

the business community. You work with the business community, 

and I was remembering back in 2011, a coalition of nearly 500 

business leaders wrote to Congress and the President urging Congress to put aside our differences and come together for the good 

of the country and the debt limit. 

The letter said: A great nation, like a great company, has to be 

relied upon to pay its debts when they become due. And then it 

went on to discuss the negative effects on business. 

I personally, as I mentioned, some of our most conservative 

CEOs sent a letter saying: I know there may not be an agreement 

on how to do this. We think this has to be done in terms of the 

long-term debt, but the debt ceiling is not the place to play games 

in terms of the effect it is going to have on our employees and our 

businesses. 

Could you address the business concerns? 

Dr. Marron. Sure. I mean, so I absolutely agree. The United 

States Federal Government has the full capability of paying its 

bills as due. And we ought to be carrying out our obligations to the 

beneficiaries who are relying on them. 

We ought to be a good business partner to the businesses that 

rely on us to pay them for the services they provide to the Federal 

Government. And for all those reasons, we have the capability. It 

is in our own interest, and it is the moral thing to do. For all those 

reasons, I think we ought to be sure that we pay all our obligations 

on time. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Okay. Very good. I stayed within my 

five minutes, I’d like to point out to the entire Committee—— 

[Laughter.] 

Next, Chairman Brady. 

Chairman Brady. Thanks. Thank you all for testifying today. 

You are well respected. The points were really well made, and we 

appreciate it and it is very timely. 

So let me ask a question: Does anyone believe the President’s 

and the Senate Democrats’ position that we will pass a debt ceiling 

limit without any checks or balances on spending, does anyone here 

believe that is going to happen? Maybe that is the other, the flip 

side of this brinkmanship rhetoric. 

I appreciate the points that this is—the debt ceiling is one of the 

few remaining opportunities for restraining expansion of the Federal Government. And Vice Chairman Klobuchar said the same in 

2011. Now it is time to have the vote tied in with getting some 

progress on the long-term debt for the country. 

And I think that is where Republicans and Democrats actually 

agree going forward. 

So, very briefly, Mr. Malpass, you made the case that it is economically important to restrain the growth. So what are the one 
15 

or two most key elements Congress ought to be focusing on on that 

restraint in that area? 

Mr. Malpass. I think it is useful to have both sides offering their 

vision of how to restrain spending. There are ample areas. Senator 

Enzi was in New York on Monday and said there were $900 billion 

of spending restraint that is available to Congress. 

We have seen in the recent Ag bill a huge amount of extra 

spending. Each of these is going to be painful. My bottom line is 

that Congress should, and is almost required by its responsibility, 

to prioritize spending so that there is a concept that some of it is 

less vital than others. 

Chairman Brady. And you are thinking both continuing within 

discretionary funding, because there is still spending that is less of 

a priority there, and as well as the steps we take to make Social 

Security and Medicare solvent for future generations? 

Mr. Malpass. Yes. In yesterday’s CBO numbers, they showed 

the rapid growth of entitlements in the outyears. So it would be 

very market positive if Congress began talking about ways to slow 

the growth in entitlement spending. 

It would set the U.S. apart from other countries in its ability to 

adjust to the aging demographics. 

Chairman Brady. So our government’s financial outlook is getting worse, not better, as we sit here today? 

Mr. Malpass. Yes. Because of the trend path in spending, the 

debt is going to mushroom. It is vital that steps be taken now to 

find ways to have an open discussion of ways to slow down that 

growth in spending. 

Chairman Brady. Thank you. 

Dr. Mitchell, you take the controversial position that a shortterm default would not be nearly as damaging as the consequences 

of our long-term financial insolvency. I note that the House has already passed legislation that takes default off the table; that requires the Federal Government Treasury to pay the bonds as they 

come due in full interest. It looks like we are getting set to do that 

again on Friday. 

You know, do you think that is one avenue that helps reassure 

markets in the short term so that we can actually focus on solving, 

together—Republicans and Democrats—the long-term problem we 

have? 

Dr. Mitchell. Well I do not think that default is on the table at 

all for the reasons I mentioned earlier, with nearly $3 trillion of 

revenue being generated and only about $230 billion of annual interest payments. 

So unless the Treasury Secretary wanted the U.S. to default, 

which I am sure he does not, it is just unrealistic. My argument 

is that short-term controversy and fiscal mess, as Donald mentioned because of the payments for other things besides interest 

payments on the debt would be a relatively small price to pay if 

at the end of the day, we avoid the kind of truly horrific, catastrophic fiscal problems that you see in European countries that 

never did have an action-forcing event like a debt limit that enabled them to get control of spending. 

So are we willing to incur a little bit of headache and hassle and 

fighting now to avoid a much, much bigger fiscal crisis at some 
16 

point down the road? And if I knew when that was, I would be one 

of these rich Wall Street guys. But, you know, all I know is it is 

going to happen if we do nothing. 

Chairman Brady. So you are saying the most dangerous and 

risky path is continuing the unrestrained spending and ignoring 

the problems with our entitlements? 

Dr. Mitchell. Yes. If you look at that CBO Long-Run Fiscal Outlook, it is very, very clear that the growth of entitlement programs, 

left unreformed, will be an enormous burden on our economy. Even 

if a couple of trillion dollars of revenue just floated down from 

Heaven, that would not change in my mind that the argument that 

we need to make Medicaid and Medicare and Social Security more 

structurally sound with the kinds of reforms that people have been 

talking about. 

Chairman Brady. As I yield back, I recall a hearing here two 

years ago when we asked experts—Republicans and Democrats— 

what is the true debt ceiling of America? What is the point where 

investors lose confidence? 

And from all parties, the answers were relatively the same. 

Which is: We don’t know. It’s sooner than you think. Don’t wait to 

find out. Act as soon as you can. 

Vice Chairman. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Thank you very much. 

Representative Maloney. 

Representative Maloney. Thank you very much. And I would 

like to welcome all the panelists, especially Mr. Malpass who is 

from the Great State of New York, and a former candidate for the 

United States Senate. We appreciate all your testimony. 

This morning President Obama urged CEOs to call on Congress 

to avoid the debt ceiling showdown and the damage it would do to 

business and the economy. He described the financial brinkmanship that was taking place. He called it terrifying, and it should not 

be tied to ideological arguments, which is what is happening in 

Congress. 

In a general sense, do you have any reports—or maybe you could 

get it to me in writing, if not right now—of the damage that it did 

to our economy in the 1970s, and the other times that we have just 

gone up to the brink? And how harmful is it? And this uncertainty 

certainly has a terrible impact on businesses. 

Senator Klobuchar talked about the letters that came in from 

American business urging us to work together and avert it in the 

past, and we do not seem to have the same type of voices from 

American business now as we have had in the past. Why do you 

think that is? That American business is not weighing in with the 

letters and the phone calls that we have gotten in the past? Maybe 

they just believe it is not going to happen—your point, Mr. Zandi— 

but in a general sense, your response to this? 

Mr. Malpass. Very nice to see you. 

My sense is, the markets have examined carefully the actual dynamics of debt payments during the 2011 incident. What I am seeing and hearing right now is, no real market concern about either 

a default or a technical default. 
17 

My thought would be that there is going to be less of a market 

reaction throughout this period because we went through the experience in August of 2011. 

Representative Maloney. Dr. Zandi. 

Dr. Zandi. I think we have become desensitized. We have gone 

down this path a number of times—2011, and—— 

Representative Maloney. Same old same old. 

Dr. Zandi. Yes. And each time we have the brinkmanship, there 

is vitriol, we hit each other over the head. But at the end of the 

day when it comes down to brass tacks, we come to an agreement. 

And there is a hundred percent certainty in the marketplace right 

now that that is the movie we are going to see. 

If we don’t—and in fact, I would argue, in a couple, three 

weeks—say we get into the early part of October and no one is 

fashioning a narrative, or a storyline with respect to how this is 

going to work out, then the markets will start to react. Because 

they will say, how is this all going to play out? 

And then a couple, three days before D-day, whenever that is, 

October 18th, or October 21st, the markets are going to react very 

violently. So it is going to be: I am okay. And then it is going to 

be: I am not okay. And then you are not going to be able to get 

that back into the box. 

Representative Maloney. And Chairman Brady—— 

Mr. Malpass. Madam, if I may, we should note that July and 

August of 2011, the bond market reacted favorably to the risk of 

default. Meaning, the yields fell sharply during that period of time. 

From a bond market standpoint, investors tend to run into the 

Treasury market the bigger the risk of a stalemate in Washington. 

Dr. Zandi. Just a point of clarification, a very important one. 

The Treasury yields fell. Every other yield rose. So borrowing cost 

to businesses, borrowing costs to consumers, to households because 

of higher mortgage rates because of the spreads widened because 

of the concern. 

Representative Maloney. Well Chairman Brady also talked 

about tying deficit reduction to any of these negotiations, but tying 

it together creates another type of uncertainty for businesses and 

investors. And this uncertainty would jeopardize economic growth. 

But we do need to reduce the deficit. And Senator Warner has 

been so effective in pointing that out in his studies, also. But have 

we swung the pendulum too far? We have achieved $2.4 trillion in 

deficit reduction. The CBO came up with a study last week saying 

that sequestration was costing 1.7 million jobs in one year; and 

that the severe cuts are hurting the economic growth that expands 

the economy. 

And so the whole type of indiscriminate spending, I tell you I 

just got out of an election in New York City. I have never seen it 

so bad. Forty-five percent of the population is near poverty line, or 

poverty line. People are afraid of not being able to even stay in 

their apartments because of the recession, downturn in the economy. 

The $40 billion, now we’re going to have it on the Floor, cuts in 

the SNAP program, where people do not even have the food they 

need. So are the cuts getting too close? Some people think it should 

be a one-to-one, but it is now like a four-to-one spending cuts to 
18 

revenue increases. And is this—how much more deficit reduction is 

needed to put the Nation on a sustainable fiscal path? And how 

should we balance between spending cuts and revenue increases? 

Have we reached a point where we are overall hurting the economy? And I would like to ask Dr. Zandi. You know, he is an economist who gets fired if he is wrong. So I always like to hear him. 

When you work for a think tank, you don’t necessarily get fired; 

but if he’s wrong for Moody’s, they’re going to fire him. 

Dr. Zandi. Yes, they will. Yes, they will. 

[Laughter.] 

I only have to be right, though, like 53 percent of the time. 

[Laughter.] 

So they’ll leave me alone. I think the fiscal austerity, the spending cuts and tax increases that you speak of, in the near term is 

overdone. If I were king for the day, I would smooth that in over 

a longer period of time to allow the private economy to digest that 

fiscal drag. 

So we are navigating through it. It is painful. Our economy is 

very lackluster. Unemployment is still very high. It is not coming 

down quickly enough, in large part because of the austerity. But 

nonetheless, I think ideally it would be better to smooth that in 

over time. 

Clearly we needed to bring down the deficits. We needed to get 

the deficits down at least to stabilize the debt-to-GDP ratio. But we 

are doing that awfully quickly and taking a big chance in the process. 

Representative Maloney. Any other comments on it? 

[No response.] 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. All right, thank you very much, Representative. Representative Duffy. 

Representative Duffy. Thank you, Madam Vice Chair. 

Thank you, panel, for being here today. You know, I did not necessarily run for Congress in 2010 to come here and raise the debt 

ceiling. I came here to reform the way we spend, reform the way 

our government works. 

But I’ve got to tell you, I am willing to raise the debt ceiling. I 

am willing to take that vote and get some trouble back at home as 

long as we engage in a reform of the way we spend. 

I am willing to vote if we reform our entitlement program. But 

for the panel, or my friends across the aisle to say, listen, we just 

want a straight debt ceiling increase with no real reform? I think 

you are going to be hard-pressed to find colleagues on my side of 

the aisle to actually vote for that. 

So when we talk about brinkmanship, we all have to come to the 

center. And my good friend, Senator Klobuchar, might say, well, 

listen, we’re not going to give up on Obamacare, whether defunding 

it or delaying it, but we will come to the table and we will actually 

look at our entitlement system. We will look at the way we spend. 

But we have to engage in some form of a dialogue where we can 

meet in the middle. And I think brinkmanship is one where one 

side—like the President says, hey, I will negotiate with Syria, or 

with the Russians, but I won’t negotiate with Republicans on the 

debt limit. 
19 

That is brinkmanship. In 1990—you guys only went back to 

1990, but in 1990, as you guys recall, Democrats held the Bush Administration hostage over the debt ceiling. Same goals. Different 

tools were used, but same goals. 

Just to look back, you guys are well aware of a quote from March 

16th, 2006, from a famous Senator. He gave a Floor speech where 

he said: 

Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that the buck stops here. Instead, 

Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the 

backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. America deserves better. Therefore, 

I intend to oppose this effort to increase America’s debt limit. 

You guys all know who that—who gave that famous speech, 

right? President Barack Obama. 

And so when we talk about brinkmanship, I am not in favor of 

that. But I am also in favor of a group of men and women from 

both parties and both Chambers coming together to find solutions 

to this problem. 

And so I guess, Mr. Zandi, and Mr. Marron—I’m slaughtering 

your name and I apologize—do you think this is a one-size solution? Are you telling—are you here testifying today that we should 

just increase the debt limit without any negotiation on reforming 

how we’re spending? That is not your position, is it? 

Dr. Zandi. Well what I am here to say is: You need to raise the 

debt limit. I mean, there are no options. Otherwise, it is disastrous 

and it is counterproductive to your own goals because it is going 

to result in a recession, bigger deficits, and raise the debt. 

You know, my sense is that both Democrats and Republicans 

have negotiated and debated the debt limit since the debt limit has 

been around, since 1962 or whenever it was put into place. So it 

has been used by both sides. 

But that does not make it right. You know, you can only put the 

gun to your head so many times before someone is going to make 

a mistake and pull the trigger, and it is to everyone’s detriment. 

So, you know, maybe this is the best time to say: Look, this is 

not the way to run a railroad. 

Representative Duffy. And maybe to this point, I mean the 

panelists have all agreed we have to reform the way we spend. 

There are long-term consequences for the fiscal course we’re on. I 

don’t think anyone has disagreed with that. 

One of the problems is our entitlement system. And the longterm issues that that brings 10 and 15 years down the road. My 

question is: Where is the plan coming from the President that says: 

Listen, I may not like Paul Ryan. I don’t like the House budget. 

But let me tell you my plan to reform entitlements that is going 

to bring us on this pathway to sustainability, or reform spending 

that brings America on this pathway to sustainability, where there 

we can come together and negotiate? 

I have not seen that plan yet. I mean, the budgets that come out, 

they never balance. They never, ever, ever balance, the President’s 

budget doesn’t. I don’t know if they’re political documents, but at 

some point if we are going to negotiate outside of the debt limit, 

we need to be able to have an honest conversation. 
20 

And if you cannot get people to come to the table and honestly 

talk about these problems, I do not know how we come to a resolution unless you get a deadline that says we are all going to come 

to the table or there’s going to be big problems. 

Does anyone disagree with that? 

Mr. Malpass. 

Mr. Malpass. No. I agree. And I think there’s not enough emphasis on the upside. There’s been a lot of talk about brinkmanship 

or the idea of going up to the end, but in reality I think it is going 

to come up to voters. There ought to be a presentation by Members 

of ideas about how to restrain spending, creating a national debate 

that begins to make progress on this. 

We have a gigantic spending problem in the Federal Government, and it is time today to start down this path. This has been 

going on year after year, where you say, well, next year we are 

going to deal with some way to restrain spending. 

I think right now is as good a time. Markets are in a very 

healthy condition. And so it is a good time to have this debate. 

Dr. Mitchell. Congressman, if I could add one thing. The President has never proposed a plan that balances, but one thing that 

concerns me is that he did say the value-added tax was, quote, 

‘‘something that has worked for other countries.’’ This does make 

me worry that he sees Europe as a role model to follow, when certainly the events that we are seeing with the welfare states collapsing in many European countries should be a warning sign to 

all of us that we cannot allow government spending to grow; it has 

already climbed since the end of the Clinton Adminstration from 

total government spending on the U.S. at about 32 percent of GDP 

to now 37, 38 percent of GDP. We cannot allow it to climb to European levels at 45 or 50 percent of GDP. 

Representative Duffy. And before I get gaveled down—which 

I am right now—I would just note that I think you make a good 

point with regard to some countries that are going through fiscal 

problems today. Fifteen years ago I bet they do wish they’d had a 

debt limit and people held them accountable to get that reform 

done. That’s a great analogy. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. And I want to take you up, Representative. We’re turning to Senator Warner who has done so much work 

in this area, but we want to get our Senate budget and House 

budget to conference committee. So if you could join us, that is 

where we can have this discussion, and that is why Senator 

McCain and Senator Collins have joined us in saying let’s get them 

to conference committee. That is the place to have this discussion, 

and not with a few weeks to go on the debt ceiling. 

So with that, I turn it over to Senator Warner. 

Senator Warner. Thank you, Vice Chairman. 

You know, I have not been here that long but I have been in 

business a lot longer than I have been in politics, and it is stunning 

to me that anybody that would claim economic expertise would say 

that messing with the full faith and credit of the United States of 

America is a responsible action. 

I mean, it is mind boggling. I am going to make a couple of comments here. There has been no major industrial nation that has 

ever gone through a significant default and recovered. I mean, Ar-
21 

gentina did a decade ago, maybe not a major industrial nation but 

depending on the estimates 40 to 60 percent of net wealth in that 

country disappeared in a few days, a few weeks. 

The analogies back to 2011 when our first absurd actions around 

here, when, yes, perhaps money moved to T-bills a bit because we 

looked only slightly less worse off than Europe, and we still had a 

few remaining bullets of extraordinary actions on monetary policy—that have all been spent now. 

The Fed acted today to extend one more time actions that, you 

know, can only go so long because of our inability to do our basic 

job. We, candidly, ought to all get fired if we don’t raise this debt 

limit. 

Again, I respect my colleagues and people on the panel who say 

we need to control spending. We absolutely do. And I have laid out 

a series of plans with Republicans and Democrats that make major 

changes to entitlements. 

But I find it stunning to me that there are people that think that 

this can be solved on simply one side of the balance sheet, without 

looking at any historic norms on the revenue side as well. With an 

aging population. And even with the entitlement changes that are 

needed, any notion that we are going to be able to drive spending 

down to 18, 19 percent GDP with an aging population and increasing medical technology is so divorced from reality that it is, you 

know, it is not a budget that has I think again much merit. 

I desperately think the challenge here has been about how we 

find revenues. I think the New Year’s Eve deal was a bad deal, and 

a huge missed opportunity to do the major economic entitlement 

transition and change that needed to be made. And the relatively 

marginal amount of additional revenue that is needed to be made, 

this is the thing that is so absurd. We took $4.5 trillion out of the revenue stream on the so-called 

Bush-or-Obama, because both parties were part of this tax cut. Nobody is talking about putting $4.5 trillion back in the revenue 

stream. 

Simpson-Bowles, roughly about 1.5. Gang of Six, about 1.2. We’re 

talking about putting about a third of that back in the revenue 

stream, along with major entitlement changes. That is a negotiating point that would be valid. 

I would argue—I mean, memo to Congress going forward, I 

would simply say when we set up the so-called Budget Control Act 

we set up, let’s think of the stupidest thing we could do as a default mechanism to make sure that we would not allow that to happen. It is called ‘‘Sequestration.’’ 

I would ask any of my colleagues in either party to come with 

me to NIH, or come with me to Hampton Roads, where we have 

so many of our military installations, and see the cancer that is 

eating at the insides of both the people who are making long-term 

commitments to public service, our Nation’s readiness; or from a 

business perspective. The House budget, which over about a 10- or 

11-year plan, takes domestic discretionary spending from 16 percent of spend when you can’t count tax expenditures down to about 

4 percent. 

I spent my career investing in businesses. I would never have invested in a business that spent less than 5 percent of its revenues 
22 

on training and equipping its workforce, investing in its plant and 

equipment, which is our Nation’s infrastructure, and in a global 

economy staying ahead of the competition, which is R&D. And yet 

that is our business plan at this moment in time. 

That is a business plan that I would have never accepted. It was 

a business plan that, candidly, Mitt Romney would have never 

been able to get through Bain Capital. So I urge, and I accept, candidly, the fact that a lot of folks on my side of the aisle have not 

been willing to go as far as we need to go on entitlements. 

And let’s have that discussion. But anybody that says on any historic basis, looking at the past 75 years of when those five or six 

years when we’ve had balanced budgets, when those revenues have 

ended up between 19.5 and 21 percent, that somehow we’re going 

to get back to a historic 18 percent revenue line that is going to 

be sustainable with anything approaching what the American people have come to expect, is again divorced from reality. 

So I appreciate the Chair and the Vice Chair holding this hearing, but I guess I would have to say—and both sides bear plenty 

of blame—but the notion that the greatest Nation in the world with 

the dislocation in Europe, with China slowing down, with India’s 

economy almost grinding to about 4 percent growth, with countries 

like Turkey and Brazil that we saw as growing, with the uncertainty that we see—and I will acknowledge I have been a bit of a 

debt Cassandra, I know I’ve been called on my side—you know, we 

got through the debt limit that didn’t crash. We got through the 

so-called Super Committee, we didn’t crash. We got through the 

stupid fiscal cliff. 

But I tell you, I think this time we are playing with fire exponentially greater without virtually any other tools to react. 

So my apologies to the panel that I went past my time. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Oh, it was more than worth it. Thank 

you, Senator Warner. It was very good. Thank you. 

Senator Warner. Thank you. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. All right. Senator Coats. 

Senator Coats. Well I appreciate the passion of my colleague, 

and I know that he spent an extraordinary amount of time and effort trying to pull together bipartisan support for putting together 

the larger plan which would incorporate a number of factors that 

could have put us on the path to fiscal health. 

And I was not a central part of that, but I was a part of it, and 

I think the Chairman was also, and a number of efforts have been 

made, as you know, over the past three or four years to achieve the 

so-called ‘‘deal’’ that reassures investors around the world, reassures the financial markets, and sends the message that they have 

finally gotten their act together. And even though this will require 

a long-term effort to get to where we ultimately want to get, just 

coming together in support of something of that magnitude, which 

would include probably tax reform, a significant comprehensive tax 

reform, which would include entitlement, structural entitlement reform, puts them on the glidepath to continued sustainability, which 

it’s not on now. Which would have incorporated both revenue and 

meaningful spending. 

Replacing sequester with something far more efficient in terms 

of how we separate the essential functions of the Federal Govern-
23 

ment—that we all want and know we need to Support—from ‘‘well, 

this would be nice to do, but we just don’t have the money to do 

it, and once we get it, maybe we should take it up’’ from ‘‘why are 

we even doing that in the first place?’’ 

But despite the efforts, whether it’s the Gang of Six, the Committee of 12, Simpson-Bowles, Domenici/Rivlin, all the efforts, the 

Dinner Party Group that I’ve been a part of—they have all come 

up short. And they have not—and it has led us to a series of crises, 

whether it is debt limit crisis, whether it is a funding next year’s 

government crisis which we are facing here in just a week and a 

half—it has not removed that cloud of uncertainty that exists. 

You know, you talk to CEOs, business people, whether they are 

small, medium, or large, they are essentially kind of frozen in place 

in terms of hiring, in terms of expanding, in terms of research and 

development commitments, in terms of looking to the future. 

Now the discouraging part of all this is that, despite all these efforts, it appears that there is no real early solution in place. The 

Congress is divided on how best to go forward regarding revenue 

versus spending. 

The public is divided in terms of what we think they want us to 

do. I think it is fair to say that the current Administration is holding to a formula which cannot be accepted by the Congress. 

And so, despite this, we have stumbled through. I think everyone 

acknowledges that we could have been doing much better. 

My question is: Stepping away a bit from the debt limit, anticipating that probably we are going to keep doing these kind of 

things for the next three-and-a-half years, we are going to have a 

new President in 2017. Based on your knowledge of where we are, 

what we have done so far, some of it constructive and helpful, but 

likely what we won’t do going forward for the next three-and-a-half 

years, what is that new President going to face when he sits down 

with his team, his economics team, and says okay, where are we? 

And what kind of situation are we in? 

Are we going to continue to have to rely on some outside precipitating factor like what happened in Europe, a Greece, or a crisis, 

or a spike in interest rates that is going to drive us to some type 

of compromise solution? 

I would just like to get your thoughts on that. Why don’t we start 

with Dr. Zandi and go down the line, and that is my only question, 

and give the panel a chance to address that question. 

Dr. Zandi. I think if you can, if Congress and the Administration can come reasonably together and pass a budget, fund the government, extend the debt ceiling, and do nothing else, nothing else, 

the economy will kick into gear and in 2017 the next President will 

be facing an economy that is pretty close to full employment. 

I fully agree that we have long-term fiscal problems. Entitlement 

reform is necessary. Tax reform is necessary. But the key issue, the 

only missing ingredient to a much better economy over the next 

few years to really getting things rolling here and getting us back 

to full employment, is for you all to come to terms and just sign 

on the dotted line and we will be off and running. 

Senator Coats. But part of my question was, not only was—— 
24 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Senator Coats, because you had already 

gone over your time, we are just going to give each witness 30 seconds, like Dr. Zandi, to answer it, if that is okay. Thank you. 

Mr. Malpass. Thank you. Some quick points. It would be a 

missed opportunity right now to pass this opportunity by. I think 

critical is to take small steps. If there were simply one program 

that you knew of in the vast government that there could be bipartisan consensus that it could be downsized, that would go a long 

way. That would be a starting point. It is something we are not 

doing right now. 

By the time you get to 2017, if you assume things stay as they 

are now, that means there will not have been a single program 

that you can identify that needs to be downsized. That means U.S. 

growth will have been slower. We will have millions of people unemployed, or who have not found a job because of that inaction 

going on right now. 

Senator Coats. Dr. Marron. 

Dr. Marron. So clearly we will miss many opportunities to do 

larger things. A couple things that will press. One emergency that 

is going to come in the 2016–2017 time period the disability portion 

of Social Security, whose Trust Fund will likely run out of resources. And so the new President in 2017 may face that as a 

pressing new immediate fiscal challenge. 

And then one thing that will happen is, a lot of the uncertainty 

around the implementation of health reform will presumably be resolved by then—not all, by any stretch, but we will learn a lot in 

the next few years about how health reform operates or doesn’t operate, which I think will be very important information for thinking about health care going forward. 

Dr. Mitchell. I will say something optimistic. In the last two 

years, because we have actually reduced government spending a 

little bit two years in a row, the deficit has fallen by more than 50 

percent, and the burden of government spending has dropped by a 

couple of percentage points of GDP. 

If over the following three years before the next President takes 

office, we limit the growth of government so it grows by one percent a year, the new President will have a balanced budget and be 

in a much stronger position to start considering some of the entitlement reforms to deal with the long run. 

So I think there is light at the end of the tunnel if we can just 

make sure the trend lines are correct in terms of the growth of government versus the growth of the productive sector of the economy. 

Senator Coats. Madam Chairman, thank you. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Very good, Senator Coats. I know we’re 

almost done here, so if you want to stick around and ask Dr. Zandi 

your second question, we’re not going to do a second round but you 

can do it on your own. 

And next we have Senator Murphy. 

Senator Murphy. Thank you very much, Madam Vice Chair. 

Thank you for having this hearing. Thank you to our witnesses. 

Sorry I’m a little late in getting here, but am glad to be here in 

time for Senator Warner’s very passionate case on behalf of a balanced approach. I think he makes as good an argument as anybody 
25 

in this place as to ultimately what our approach has to be to get 

beyond government and budget setting by manufactured crises. 

But I guess I look at it at a little bit simpler level. And that is 

in terms of making a distinction between policy and process. 

When I got to the gas station to fill up my car with a tank of 

gas, that is policy. I have made a decision that I need gas in the 

tank and I’m going to pay for that, and maybe as a consequence 

I am not going to, you know, go out and get an ice cream with my 

kids that night. 

The process is when I stick the card in the machine to pay for 

it. That’s not a decision that I make. That’s just a consequence of 

the decision I made when I filled up the tank of gas. 

And as I listen to people prognosticate as to how this whole thing 

may play out over the next several weeks, that there’s some suggestion that maybe we will do a continuing resolution and then a 

couple of weeks later potentially abrogate American debt obligations, the hypocracy to me is just stunning; that within weeks we 

would make a policy decision to spend more than we are taking in, 

and then just a handful of days later essentially refuse to pay the 

bill, the equivalent I think of essentially filling up your tank and 

then driving off. 

My question, though, is about what this all means for the flow 

into the United States of foreign investment. I was in Europe—I’m 

Chair of the European Subcommittee on the Foreign Relations 

Committee—I was there earlier in the year, and if you want to feel 

good about America, go to Europe. 

They look at the American economy with some degree of envy because they see rates of growth that, although anemic are better 

than what many of those countries are experiencing. They look at 

demographic trends that are very positive in the United States 

compared to the aging populations of Europe. They look with some 

envy upon our energy sector as we are starting to achieve a greater 

degree of energy independence. 

And they scratch their heads because the one thing they don’t 

understand is how, based upon all that relatively good news, especially as compared to Europe, we haven’t figured out that the one 

thing that stands in our way, as Mr. Zandi has said, and others 

have said over and over again, is our ability to get control of these 

long-term liabilities. 

And so my question in that context—and I will frame it to whomever wants to take the question—Mr. Zandi, you have been taking 

most of these first, so I will give it to you first, is: If we continue 

in this sort of cycle of manufactured crisis after manufactured crisis, what does this mean for the flow of foreign investment into the 

United States? What has it meant already, and what can it mean 

in the future? 

There is world capital that is looking to find a home and a place, 

and my question is: Have our actions over the past several years 

already had a chilling effect on the amount of foreign investment 

in the United States? And what is the future if we continue to be 

trapped in this cycle? 

Dr. Zandi. Well I think the evidence is that it undermines confidence in the ability to pay our obligations. It raises the cost of 

funds, and investors are demanding higher interest rates as a re-
26 

sult. That is the evidence that we have gotten from the 2011 event, 

that it has raised interest rates even a small amount, but that adds 

up to a lot of money because we are talking about trillions of dollars in debt. 

So it is incredibly costly, and the only thing that has really saved 

us from an even greater cost is that the rest of the world is in 

worst shape. And their political and budget issues are much worse 

than our own. 

Senator Murphy. Right. And I guess that’s the context of my 

question, that given the potential return on investment in other 

first-world or G–20 countries, does that still create an incentive to 

put money into the American economy notwithstanding the crisis? 

Or do we still have a chilling effect above and beyond some relative 

competitive advantage we have against the rest of the world. 

Dr. Zandi. Well we can’t keep going down this path, because 

presumably the rest of the world is going to get their act together. 

Senator Murphy. Right. 

Dr. Zandi. And if we don’t, we are going to have a problem. 

Senator Murphy. Any other comments? 

Mr. Marron. 

Dr. Marron. I would just say that from where I sit, I mean I 

think the primary risk of these showdowns is mostly borne by 

Americans—particularly if you had a government shutdown, or if 

payments don’t go out. 

And then as Mark says, obviously if there is some aspect of this 

that really weakens confidence in our system and the odds that 

folks’ capital will be treated well here, it is clearly a significant 

risk. But really I think most of it is about Americans. 

Senator Murphy. But I think, just to wrap up, Senator 

Klobuchar, I think, Dr. Zandi, your comment is spot on. We have 

not maybe borne the full brunt of this because there has not been 

a lot of safe landings any other place. But to the extent that Europe does make a turn, or other places do, that hurts us even more. 

Dr. Zandi. And actually evidence of that, there are a couple of 

economies that have gotten it together—Canada is a good case in 

point; Australia is another pretty good case in point—and they 

have benefitted enormously from the capital flows that have come 

to their country. That is because they are on sound fiscal ground 

and they are doing the right thing. 

Senator Murphy. Thank you. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Very good. Well I want to thank our 

witnesses today. We had a very good attendance, I hope you noticed, and a tribute to all of you as witnesses, as well as the importance of this issue. 

As I was sitting here—not that I wasn’t raptly listening to every 

word of my colleagues—but I did look at the iPad and I noticed a 

story just posted on the Star Tribune that the Twin Cities economy 

grew at its fastest pace in nearly a decade last year. The U.S. Commerce Department reported Tuesday that real GDP, the total value 

. . . grew by 3.9 percent, adding more than $7 billion in economic 

activity. 

So that is the kind of good news that is out there, and I think 

it is what Dr. Zandi was talking about when he talked about how 

we are on this cusp of some real economic expansion. 
27 

I even think when, Dr. Mitchell, you talked about some of the 

work that has occurred on bringing down the debt that has helped 

to at least make people understand that the Congress is serious 

about doing something. 

That being said, I would just end with this. We are on this cusp 

of opportunity, and I don’t want us to go backward by sending the 

economy into a downward spiral. And I would much prefer to do 

the kind of work we could do in a conference committee, or the 

kind of negotiations that were going on at the end of last year with 

Speaker Boehner and the President and others and the work that’s 

been going on with Senator Warner and a group of us on the debt 

reduction, than having something sort of political positioning going 

on on either side on this debt ceiling. 

And that’s my last words. I don’t know if you want to say anything here, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Brady. Well I appreciate you holding this hearing. It 

is timely. It is important. Our panelists really were very articulate, 

and it just seems to me with the Fed continuing to pump this monetary morphine into Wall Street, now is the time for us to get our 

fiscal act in order because the clock is really ticking. This is the 

perfect opportunity. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar. Very good. Thank you, everyone, and 

the hearing is adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 3:53 p.m., Wednesday, September 18, 2013, the 

hearing was adjourned.) 

(29) 

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 
30 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. KEVIN BRADY, CHAIR, JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE

Vice Chair Klobuchar, distinguished witnesses, and guests from the Republic of 

Ireland and Northern Ireland, welcome. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar and I agree that political brinkmanship over raising the 

debt ceiling is costly to our economy. I wish President Obama felt as we do. His 

declaration this weekend—‘‘What I haven’t been willing to negotiate, and I will not 

negotiate, is on the debt ceiling.’’—represents the inflexible brinksmanship the 

American people deplore. 

Despite the recent decline in the federal budget deficit, future projections are 

troubling. Add to that an ever-growing national debt; Medicare whose main trust 

fund runs empty within twelve years; and Social Security that had to borrow nearly 

$150 billion last year from foreign investors and the Fed simply to make payments 

to our seniors. As Dr. Zandi noted in his testimony, ‘‘ . . . the long term fiscal outlook 

remains disconcerting.’’ 

This bleak outlook hurts middle-class families and the 20 million Americans who 

can’t find a full-time job today in the weakest recovery since World War II. That’s 

why House Republicans have reasonably and prudently passed a bill to take default 

off the table and invited the President to sit down together—today—to find a bipartisan solution that puts Washington on a responsible fiscal path through progrowth tax reform, ending wasteful spending and taking substantive steps to extend 

the lives of Medicare and Social Security. 

Children born today owe nearly $50,000 as their share of the national debt. In 

other words, they owe a Lexus to Uncle Sam. If Washington doesn’t change its 

spending ways by the time they reach 13 years old, they’ll owe another Lexus. And 

when they graduate from college ready to begin their career, they’ll owe yet a third. 

Of course, young people don’t buy luxury sedans for Uncle Sam. Instead, they will 

pay the price for this generation’s spending addiction through a sluggish economy 

with higher taxes and higher interest rates. So if they are able to find a job, they’ll 

have lower wages and keep less of their paycheck to pursue their American Dream. 

For the first time in our history, we can’t be confident that the next generation 

of Americans will be better off than the current one. That’s unacceptable. 

Admittedly, the debt ceiling is an imperfect vehicle to control the growth of federal spending. I would prefer that Congress and state legislatures amend the U.S. 

Constitution to limit the growth of federal spending and require a balanced budget 

except during war or emergencies. However, the debt ceiling remains an effective 

tool for Congress and the President to reach bi-partisan consensus on measures to 

limit the growth of federal spending and reform entitlements. 

Both parties, Democrats and Republicans, have used the debt ceiling as a responsible means to shore-up America’s financial house—the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 came about through debt ceiling negotiations between congressional Democrats and President Bush, and the Budget Control Act of 2011 came 

about through debt ceiling negotiations between House Republicans and President 

Obama. 

It is irresponsible to give the White House another blank check. Instead, it is responsible to limit the growth of federal spending and secure the future of entitlement programs in exchange for raising the debt ceiling. 

If now isn’t the time to tackle Washington’s spending addiction, when is? Perhaps 

brinkmanship is just another word for a long overdue intervention. 

One of today’s witnesses, Dr. Mitchell, summarized good fiscal policy in a simple 

golden rule: private output should grow faster than government spending. In other 

words, Main Street should grow faster than Washington. I agree. 

Some advocates of ‘‘big government’’ claim that modest savings from the recent 

sequester are decimating government services and threatening economic growth. 

The reality is that since the recession ended, real federal consumption and investment spending has grown faster than real GDP—6.4 percent compared with 4.6 percent. The sequester is merely asking the 500-pound federal government to lose 

about 10 pounds. 

What ails our economy is not too little government, but too much. Therefore, I 

will soon reintroduce the Maximizing America’s Prosperity or MAP Act to limit the 

growth of federal spending through a new, innovative spending cap—non-interest 

spending as a percentage of potential GDP. 

Using non-interest outlays as the numerator in the spending cap forces Congress 

to limit what it can control—program spending—through appropriations bills and 

changes in entitlement legislation, not what it can’t—interest outlays—that are determined by past spending decisions and the Fed’s monetary policy. 

Using potential GDP as the denominator in the spending cap eliminates the 

‘‘boom-bust’’ cyclicality in spending caps tied to GDP. The growth of GDP fluctuates 
31 

with the business cycle, allowing spending blowouts in boom years, and then forcing 

deep cuts during recessions. Using potential GDP provides a more stable path for 

federal spending over time. 

Vice Chair Klobuchar and I might not agree on what’s the right level for a spending cap, but we should be able to agree on the right metric. And non-interest spending as a percent of potential GDP is the right metric. 

I look forward to the testimony of today’s witnesses. 
32 

Written Testimony of Mark Zandi 

Chief Economist and Co-Founder Moody's Analytics 

Before the Joint Economic Committee 

'The Economic Cost of Debt-Ceiling Brinkmanship" 

September 18,2013 

The U.S. economy remains frustratingly far from full employment. While there are 

many reasons for this, brinkmanship around the federal budget and Treasury debt ceiling 

has been a significant contributing factor. Much progress has been made since the Great 

Recession, and the economy's prospects are improving, but this will continue only if 

policymakers can resolve their differences in a timely way. 

While negotiations over these fiscal issues will be difficult, it is generally expected 

that lawmakers will come to terms in time to avoid a government shutdown or a breach of 

the debt ceiling. They have shown an ability to come together at the last minute in other 

recent fiscal battles, including the showdowns over the debt ceiling in summer 2011 and 

the fiscal cliff earlier this year. 

As such, the current budget battle should have little adverse effect on investors, 

consumers or businesspeople, provided it is resolved in time. But policymakers should 

not take solace in this. If they botch it and the government shuts down or fails to meet all 

its obligations, investor and consumer psychology will be damaged, and the economy 

will suffer serious harm. 

To resolve the current budget impasse, policymakers should not add to the significant 

fiscal austerity already in place and set to last through mid-decade. Tax increases and 

government spending cuts over the past three years have put a substantial drag on 

economic growth. In 2013 the fiscal drag is as large as it has been since the defense 

drawdown after World War II. 

Moreover, because of fiscal austerity and the economic recovery, the federal 

government's fiscal situation has improved markedly. The budget deficit this year will be 

less than half its size at the recession's deepest point in 2009. Under current law and 

using reasonable economic assumptions, the deficit will continue to narrow through middecade, causing the debt-to-GDP ratio to stabilize. 

As part of any budget deal, lawmakers should reverse the sequester. The second year 

of budget sequestration will likely have greater consequences than the first, affecting 

many government programs in ways that nearly all agree are not desirable. A sizable 

share of the sequestration cuts to date has been one-off adjustments, but future cuts will 

have to come from lasting reductions in operational budgets. 
33 

It would, of course, also be desirable for lawmakers to address the nation's daunting 

long-term fiscal challenges. While the fiscal situation should be stable through the end of 

this decade, the long-term fiscal outlook remains disconcerting. If Congress does not 

make significant changes to the entitlement programs and tax code, rising health care 

costs and an aging population will swamp the budget in the 2020s and 2030s. Both cuts 

in government spending and increases in tax revenues will be necessary to reasonably 

solve these long-term fiscal problems. 

A grand bargain with comprehensive entitlement and tax reform is likely too much to 

hope for, but lawmakers can do some things now to address our long-term fiscal issues 

and help resolve the current impasse. New budget rules that recognize the magnitude of 

our long-term problems and encourage solutions would be especially helpful. These 

could include incorporating fiscal-gap and generational accounting in the budget process 

and significantly extending the current 10-year budget horizon. 

Adopting the chained consumer price index for adjusting Social Security benefits and 

the tax code would also be a small but positive step in the appropriate direction. The 

chained CPI is a more accurate measure of inflation, and adopting it would both cut 

entitlement spending and raise tax revenue. The budget savings would not come close to 

what is needed, but it would be consequential nonetheless. 

Revenue-neutral corporate tax reform that scales back tax expenditures in exchange 

for a lower top marginal corporate tax rate would also be a significant policy 

achievement. This would significantly improve the competitiveness of U.s. businesses 

and the economy's long-term growth. Much of the hard intellectual work necessary to 

accomplish this has been done, and there is general agreement among economists that 

this would provide a meaningful boost. As part of corporate tax reform, multinationals 

could be encouraged to repatriate their overseas profits with a temporarily lower tax rate. 

The resulting onetime boost to tax revenues could be used to finance infrastructure 

development here at home, also improving U.S. competitiveness and long-term growth. 

Congress should use this opportunity to eliminate the statutory debt ceiling. It is an 

idiosyncratic, anachronistic and, as has been demonstrated, potentially destructive rule 

that is detrimental to sound economic policy. Absent repeal, an alternative would be to 

require debt-ceiling increases when spending, taxation and appropriations bills are 

passed. Doing so would restore the fundamental economic relationship between 

budgeting and borrowing, and reduce the risk that political brinkmanship could damage 

the full faith and credit of the United States or the stability of world financial markets. 

2 
34 

Recommendation #1: Do not shut down the federal government 

Congress' first order of business is appropriating funds for the fast-approaching 2014 

fiscal year. If lawmakers fail to act by October I, the federal government will partially 

shut down. At a minimum, lawmakers must pass a continuing resolution to extend current 

spending authority, which expires at the end of this month. 

A shutdown that lasts only three or four days would have modest economic 

consequences, costing the economy approximately 0.2 percentage point of annualized 

real GDP growth in the fourth quarter. A brief shutdown would have limited economic 

impact because it would affect only discretionary spending, the one-third of the budget 

funded through congressional appropriations. Mandatory spending would not be affected. 

Some appropriated spending would also likely be considered essential and not cut, in 

such areas as national security, air traffic control, law enforcement, and the processing of 

benefit payments. Using the 1995 government shutdown as a guide, approximately half 

of all government employees would not be able to go to work. Moreover, most 

government spending would be delayed and not canceled in a brief shutdown. Federal 

employees would lose pay, but most other activity would be made up later. 

However, shutting the government down for three or four weeks would do significant 

economic damage, reducing real GDP by 1.4 percentage points in the fourth quarter. And 

this likely understates the economic fallout, as it does not fully account for the impact of 

such a lengthy shutdown on consumer, business and investor psychology. Any 

interruption much longer than a month would cause GDP to fall over the quarter, and one 

longer than two months would likely precipitate another recession. 

For context, the longest government shutdown on record, in late 1995 and early 1996, 

lasted about three weeks. The economy's growth slowed sharply as a result (see Chart 1). 

Chart 1: '95~'96 Government Shutdown Hurt Growth 

Real GOP growth, % change yr ago 

4.5 

4.0 

3.0 

2.5 

2.0 +--+-+--+-"""1---+--+-+--+-1---1---1--1--1 

94 95 96 

Sources: SEA, Moody'S Analytics 

3 
35 

Recommendation #2: Raise the Treasury debt ceiling 

Lawmakers must increase the $16.7 trillion Treasury debt ceiling before mid-October. 

According to Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, that is when the "extraordinary measures" the 

Treasury has been using since May to stay under the limit will no longer work (see 

http://www .treasury. gov linitiati ves/documents/082613%20debt%20Iimit%20Ietter%20to 

%20congress.pdf). At that point, the government would be able to pay bills with only the 

cash it has on hand, about $50 billion on any given day. 

It is impossible to know precisely when the Treasury will run out of ways to avoid the 

ceiling. The key uncertainty is revenues: Quarterly corporate income taxes were due 

September 16, giving the Treasury some leeway, but the Treasury must issue a large 

amount of nonmarketable debt to the entitlement-related trust funds on October 1, 

reducing its flexibility. Timing will become clearer after that, but the Treasury wiIllikely 

be out of options by the end of October, when a large interest payment on Treasury 

securities is due. 

Operationally, the Treasury might be able to prioritize interest payments on U.S. 

government securities, as those payments are handled by a different computer system 

than other government obligations. But practically that would be difficult; it would entail 

paying bond investors before Social Security recipients, for example. Prioritizing other 

payments would likely not be possible, as the Treasury might not be able to sort through 

the blizzard of payments due each month to decide which to pay. 

More likely, the Treasury would delay payments as officials suggested in a 2012 

inspector general's report. The Treasury could also wait until it received enough cash to 

pay a specific day's bills. Initially, the resulting delays would be short, but they would 

increase over time. For example, if the Treasury hit its borrowing authority on October 

18, payments to Medicare and Medicaid providers due that day would be delayed one 

business day, to October 21. But checks to be issued on November 1 for Social Security, 

veterans benefits and active-duty military pay would not go out until November 13. 

It has become typical for Congress to run down the clock, but in the end it has never 

failed to come through. The motivation is clear: Any delay in raising the debt ceiling 

would have dire economic consequences. Consumer, business and investor confidence 

would be hit hard, putting stock, bond and other financial markets into turmoil. 

This was clearly evident in the near-debacle that occurred in summer 2011, when 

lawmakers raised the debt ceiling at the very last minute. Brinkmanship nevertheless 

undermined consumer confidence, sent stock prices reeling, and caused credit default 

swap spreads on U.S. Treasury debt to widen sharply (see Chart 2). The bitter showdown 

4 
36 

led Standard & Poor's to cut its rating on Treasury debt from AAA to AA+. Although 

policymakers acted before the debt ceiling was reached, the fallout nearly caused the 

fragile economic recovery to stall. 

Chart 2: Debt-Ceiling Debate Undermined Confidence 

Consumer confidence index, Oct 2001=100 

130 ,-------------------, 

100 

06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 

Sourcils. Rasmu$slll'l Public: Opirllon Research, MQody'sAnalytlcs 

Another such confrontation would also effectively shut the government, which would 

have authority to spend but would not have the cash to pay for it. The Treasury would 

have no choice but to eliminate its cash deficit, which will run as high as $130 billion in 

November. This is about 9% ofGDP (annualized). The economy would quickly fall into 

another severe recession. 

Given the serious consequences of not raising the debt ceiling in a timely way, it is 

widely expected that Congress will do so. After several rounds of fiscal brinkmanship 

over the last few years, financial markets have become increasingly desensitized to the 

headlines coming out of Washington. However, lawmakers should not become 

complacent, thinking that breaching the debt limit is somehow all right. It is not. There 

will be a violent reaction in financial markets if policymakers fail to act in time. 

Recommendation #3: Do not add to near-term fiscal austerity 

In any agreement to increase the debt ceiling or extend funding for the federal 

government, lawmakers should avoid adding to the fiscal austerity in place through middecade. Congress has been appropriately focused on reducing the government's large 

budget deficits, but recent tax increases and government spending cuts have put a 

significant constraint on growth. Under current law, fiscal headwinds will continue to 

blow hard in 2014 and 2015. It would be wise not to add to those headwinds, and allow 

the private economy to gather momentum. 

5 
37 

While the U.S. economy has begun its fifth year of recovery from the debilitating 

Great Recession, it remains fragile. Growth has been modest, with real GDP expanding 

close to 2% per year since the recovery began, and payrolls are still nearly 2 million jobs 

shy of their prerecession peak. The nation's 7.3% unemployment rate remains well above 

most estimates of full employment, which is closer to 5.5%. And this understates the 

stress in the job market given the large number of potential workers who have left the 

labor force because of a lack of perceived job opportunities. 

The private economy has made significant strides since the recession. American 

companies have strong balance sheets with low debt and lots of cash, and they have done 

an excellent job reducing their costs. By most measures, they are highly competitive. The 

financial system is much better capitalized and liquid, and increasingly willing and able 

to extend credit. Households have also significantly reduced their debt loads, which are 

now about as low as they have ever been. Higher house prices and stock values are also 

supporting households' better financial condition. 

But the strengthening private economy is not evident in the nation's overall 

performance because of fiscal austerity. In calendar year 2013, the drag on the economy 

from federal tax increases and spending cuts will amount to 1.5 percentage points of real 

GDP growth. That is, if fiscal policy were simply neutral with respect to the economy, 

real GDP growth this year would be closer to a strong 3.5% (2 percentage points in actual 

real GDP growth plus 1.5 percentage points from the elimination of the fiscal drag). The 

fiscal drag will reach its apex in the current quarter, and over the year is greater than in 

any other year since the defense drawdown that followed World War II (see Chart 3). 

Chart 3: Fiscal Headwinds Are Blowing Hard 

Rea! GOP growth impact of federal fiscal policy, fiscal yr, ppt 

3.5 

3.0 

2.5 

2.0 

1.5 

1.0 

0.5 

0.0 

-05 

.1.0 

-1.5 

-20 

60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 00 05 10 

Source: Moody's Analyllc$ 

6 
38 

The federal government's improved fiscal situation also provides lawmakers with 

some leeway. Tax revenues are growing at a double-digit pace and government spending 

is falling. The budget deficit for fiscal 2013 is set to come in well below $700 billion. 

This is still large, but it is half of what it was at its peak in fiscal 2009. Under current 

law and assuming the economic recovery stays intact, the deficit will continue to narrow 

through mid-decade. The nation's debt-to-GDP ratio, while uncomfortably high at more 

than 70%, will stabilize. 

Given the still-fragile economic recovery, the austerity already in place, and a better 

near-term federal budget situation, policymakers should not add to the fiscal burden on 

the economy through mid-decade. This will help the private economy kick into higher 

gear, hasten a self-sustaining economic expansion, and promote a quicker return to full 

employment. 

Recommendation #4: Replace the sequester 

Policymakers should replace the cuts scheduled for the coming year as part of the 

sequester with other budget savings. 

The impact of the current year's sequester, which began in March, is becoming more 

visible in the economic data. Hiring freezes announced early this year appear to have 

accelerated the decline in federal government employment. There has been an even larger 

impact on hours worked and personal income. Federal furloughs caused government 

wages and salaries to decline by half a percent in August alone. Cuts in procurement 

spending are also reducing support for private sector jobs, particularly among defense 

contractors, although the impact of the sequester on private employment is occurring 

gradually, with a significant lag. 

A second year of sequestration will have greater consequences for the economy. The 

cuts will be larger and will start immediately, rather than beginning six months into the 

fiscal year as occurred this year. Because of lags between budgeting and actual spending, 

and between federal spending and its impact on the job market, the fallout from this year's 

cuts will carry over into 2014. A sizable share of the fiscal 2013 sequestration cuts was 

also made through one-off adjustments such as temporary furloughs or zeroing-out 

unobligated funds that were authorized but not spent. With this low-hanging fruit now 

gone, future cuts will have to come more from reductions in operational budgets. Given 

the indiscriminate nature of sequestration, this will be especially disruptive to government 

programs. 

7 
39 

Continuing the sequester would have particular implications for the Pentagon. While 

in fiscal 2013 sequestration cuts were divided evenly between security spending--on 

defense, homeland security and international affairs-and nonsecurity spending, in 2014 

and beyond the split will be between defense and nondefense, requiring that a greater 

share of cuts comes from the Pentagon's budget. The Defense Department also paid for a 

substantial portion of its 2013 cuts by eliminating unobligated balances and, without that 

cushion this year, will be forced to make deeper cuts from payrolls and operations. The 

potential for an escalation in military operations in Syria could increase the overseas 

contingency operations budget, which is not exempt (see Chart 4). 

Recommendation #5: Enact budget reforms 

The statutory debt ceiling is an anachronistic law that if not repealed should be 

reformed so that it can no longer lead to a voluntary default on U.S. government 

obligations. Fiscal-gap and intergenerational accounting should also be adopted in the 

budget process. 

Using the threat of a default on U.S. government obligations as a tool in fiscal policy 

negotiations has meaningful economic costs. Short of a repeal of the debt ceiling, 

policymakers should consider strengthening the link between borrowing, tax and 

spending policy, by requiring "ability to pay" language in any legislation that adds to 

future deficits. Ability to pay is defined as sufficient projected tax revenue and borrowing 

authority to cover the current Congressional Budget Office deficit forecast. This 

requirement would be applied to all direct spending, taxation and annual appropriations 

bills. Any discrepancies that result from changes in the CBO forecast could be reconciled 

in the annual budget process. 

8 
40 

The debt ceiling would still force lawmakers to think about the long-term fiscal 

impact of any legislation, but it would do so in the context ofthe spending and taxation 

bills that create the need for that debt. This proposal makes use of current CBO budget 

projections and scoring practices, and thus should cause no new compliance costs. 

Policymakers should also adopt the INFORM Act, which would require the CBO and 

General Accounting Office to adopt fiscal-gap and generational accounting. 

(http://www.theinformact.org/contentltext-bill) This provides a more accurate calculation 

of the nation's long-term fiscal obligations and thus would create the basis for sounder 

budgeting and fiscal decision-making. 

The fiscal gap describes the difference between the present value of projected 

government expenditures, including interest and principal payments on outstanding 

federal debt, and taxes and other receipts, including income accruing from the 

government's ownership of financial assets. Generational accounting measures the burden 

of closing the fiscal gap on today's and tomorrow's children, assuming they must do so on 

their own and that the burden on each generation is proportional to its labor earnings. 

Fiscal-gap and generational accounting are comprehensive and forward-looking, and 

determine the sustainability of fiscal policy and the burden of that policy on future 

generations. Fiscal-gap accounting has already been adopted by the Social Security 

Trustees and Medicare Trustees and is becoming more widely used in other countries. 

Recommendation #6: Adopt chained CPI and corporate tax reform 

To break the budget impasse, policymakers should consider adopting the chained 

consumer price index in calculating Social Security benefits and tax liabilities. Revenueneutral corporate tax reform resulting in a lower marginal corporate tax rate would also 

help the competitiveness of U.S. companies and thus support stronger long-term 

economic growth. 

The chained CPI index is a more accurate measure of inflation than the current CPI 

index used in budgeting. Since chained CPI accounts for changes in consumers' spending 

behavior due to changes in the relative prices of goods and services (e.g. if the price of 

apples increases more quickly than that of bananas, consumers will buy fewer apples and 

more bananas) it grows more slowly than the CPI (see Chart 5). If the chained CPI were 

adopted in the budget, future Social Security benefits would increase more slowly and tax 

revenues would increase more quickly. 

9 
41 

Chart 5: Chained CPI Grows More Slowly Than CPI 

Difference in growth between CP! and chained CPI, ppts 

0.8 ,--------------------, 

Average=O 3 

0.5 

04 

0.2 +---.----, ... -----1I ___ .--IIH"-----II-.--IIH 

-0.2 -'-------------------' 

00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 

Souren: BlS, M uody's Analytluc 

Overall, the change would save the federal government about $130 billion over the 

next decade, and much more in subsequent decades. This does not go nearly far enough 

to address our long-term fiscal problems, but it is a step in the right direction, as it 

includes both entitlement and tax reform. More of both will be necessary to put the nation 

on a sounder long-term fiscal footing. 

Corporate tax reform, which involves reducing or eliminating tax expenditures in the 

corporate tax code and using the resulting additional revenues to reduce marginal rates 

for businesses, would also be a positive economic step. U.S. marginal corporate tax rates 

are high by international standards, even after accounting for exemptions, deductions and 

credits that result in lower effective tax rates. All the loopholes also make the tax code 

complex and inefficient. Permanently lowering marginal corporate tax rates would 

improve the competitiveness of U.S. companies and thus long-term economic growth. 

As part of corporate tax reform, multinational corporations would be encouraged to 

repatriate their sizable overseas profits through a temporarily lower tax rate. This would 

give a onetime boost to tax revenues that could be used to finance needed infrastructure 

development in the U.S. This too would help the competitiveness of U.S. companies and 

thus long-term economic growth. 

Conclusions 

Washington's recent budget battles have been painful to watch and harmful to the 

economy. Political brinkmanship creates significant uncertainty and anxiety among 

consumers, businesses and investors, weighing on their willingness to spend, hire and 

invest. 

10 
42 

Despite this, the economic recovery is four years old and counting, and the private 

economy has made enormous strides in righting the wrongs that triggered the Great 

Recession. Business balance sheets are about as strong as they have ever been, the 

banking system is well-capitalized, and households have significantly reduced their debt 

loads. The private economy is on the verge of stronger growth, more jobs and lower 

unemployment. 

The key missing ingredient is Congress' willingness to fund the government after the 

end of this fiscal year and to raise the Treasury debt ceiling. Ifpolicymakers can find a 

way to do these things in a timely way, almost regardless of how ungainly the process is, 

then the still-fragile recovery will quickly evolve into a sturdy self-sustaining economic 

expansion. 

We are close to finally breaking free from the black hole of the Great Recession. All 

it will take is for Washington to come together over the next few weeks. 

II 
43 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAVID MALPASS

Vice-Chairman Klobuchar, Chairman Brady, members of the Committee, thank 

you for the invitation to testify on the debt limit. It’s a vital economic and legislative 

issue. 

The national debt already exceeds the nation’s annual output, and the Adminis- tration is now requesting that Congress increase the debt limit above $17 trillion. 

As part of providing this increase, I think there should be an honest national debate 

on federal spending priorities and an agreement with the President on constructive 

spending restraint. There’s huge economic upside for jobs, investment, the stock 

market and the dollar if you could lower the federal spending path or rewrite the 

debt limit to make it more effective. 

The federal government is spending nearly $3.6 trillion per year and is planning 

to increase spending rapidly in coming years even with the sequester and the underfunding of national defense. Some of the spending is successful and adds to the nation’s well-being, but another portion of the spending, several hundred billion dollars, is not successful enough to justify the taxes and debt used to pay for it. 

This has created a spending and debt crisis that harms the economy and undermines investment and jobs. The crisis is particularly acute because several categories of federal spending will need to increase over the next two decades as the 

baby boom ages and requires more government services. Government health-care 

spending will more than double over the next decade to $1.8 trillion annually in 

2023, while annual debt-service costs are expected to quadruple as interest rates 

normalize. 

Given this demographic and interest rate cycle, spending and debt should be at 

lower-than-normal levels now in order to prepare for the coming increases. In addition, the maturity of the national debt held by the private sector should be longer 

than normal. Instead, the Fed’s bond purchases have materially shortened the effective maturity of the national debt, and both spending and debt are at record levels 

even though the demographic bulge is just beginning to hit the federal budget. This 

leaves fiscal policies completely out-of-synch with long-term growth. 

The debt limit provides a good opportunity to address this crisis. In negotiating 

the next increase, Congress and the Administration should take steps to downsize 

current spending and slow future spending growth. It’s also vital to improve the allocation of spending—less successful government programs should be reduced in 

order to make room for new programs and for more spending on successful programs. In my August 30 Wall Street Journal column, I advocated a menu approach 

in which the various parties suggest numerous methods to reduce spending and 

then negotiate a compromise. 

Looking longer term, Congress should work to repeal and replace the current debt 

limit with a more effective limit. The current debt limit law is fatally flawed because 

Congress and the President are able to make unlimited spending commitments 

without first choosing how to pay for them. The debt limit law was initially created 

in 1917 to facilitate debt rather than limit it. The goal was to relieve Congressmen 

from having to vote for individual bond issues to fund their spending plans. This 

has left members unaccountable to voters—they get to create new spending programs and then let the Treasury Department and President demand more debt in 

order to pay for spending that has already occurred. The debt limit needs to be rewritten so that debt is approved prior to spending commitments rather than afterthe-fact. 

In my Forbes and Wall Street Journal columns, I’ve advocated replacing the debt 

limit with legislation to establish continuous spending restraint that strengthens 

when the debt-to-GDP ratio rises above a ceiling. I was privileged to work for Senator Bill Roth on this Committee in 1990 when he wanted to create a 50% debtto-GDP limit. Unfortunately, the debt ratio is now more than double that, and it 

will take many years of continuous spending restraint to restore a more pro-growth 

debt level. In the ideal, there should be a downward glidepath for the debt ratio. 

It would set gradually lower debt-to-GDP limits which, if exceeded, would require 

Congress and the Administration to reduce their spending commitments or face escalating procedural restraints on spending. 

I emphasize the huge economic and market upside from lowering the spending 

path and rewriting the debt limit to make it effective. Around the world and in the 

competition among U.S. states, investors reward spending limitations—private sector investment and employment increase and median income rises. The second term 

of the Clinton Administration provides an example. 

Movement toward spending restraint would also cause U.S. assets to appreciate 

materially. This lowers the cost of capital and creates more jobs. We’ve already seen 

a demonstration of that with the big market gains when the sequester was imple-
44 

mented. The sequester was a blunt instrument—well-thought-out spending restraint 

would be even better received by financial markets. 

There’s been a great deal of discussion about whether an extended negotiation 

over the debt limit might unsettle financial markets or slow the economy. I think 

the benefits of a negotiation far outweigh the costs. Bond markets have examined 

the U.S. debt limit process and are very comfortable holding U.S. Treasury debt 

during debt limit negotiations—in fact, bond yields fell sharply during the 2011 negotiations, with the 10-year Treasury yield falling from 3.2% to 2% in July and August 2011. 

In contrast with August 2011, it’s unlikely that a major credit rating agency 

would downgrade the U.S. credit rating. I think financial markets would greet a 

partial shutdown of government spending during the debt limit negotiations with 

a yawn or quiet applause. The Administration would like to use financial markets 

to scare Congress into a clean debt limit, but I think the reality is that voter reaction will be the stronger referee on the debt limit negotiation. If voters think the 

negotiations are reasonable and constructive, they’ll tolerate a partial shutdown, as 

will financial markets. There’s no indication that financial markets are worried 

about a default or technical default on U.S. debt. 

In making budget decisions, one of the confusing issues is whether austerity is 

bad for growth. Austerity or ‘‘fiscal consolidation’’ encompasses two separate economic policies: government downsizing on the one hand, which causes more growth; 

and private sector downsizing on the other hand, which causes recessions. Many of 

the reform programs undertaken in Europe were harmful because they were built 

on private sector austerity, not government downsizing. The austerity often took the 

form of higher value-added taxes, wealth taxes and increases in government fees. 

As the U.S. examines options, it should aim to reduce ineffective government 

spending. It drains the private sector because it requires new taxes or debt. An open 

Washington discussion of spending restraint, even a contentious one using a menu 

of options—would receive a very positive market reaction. 

In addition to spending restraint, I think the debt limit increase should include 

three steps to make the debt limit more honest. In recent years, the Federal Reserve 

has incurred extra debt by buying higher coupon Treasury bonds at a premium. The 

cumulative premiums that the Fed has paid and includes in its liabilities is already 

$200 billion and climbing fast. It is true national debt and should be included in 

the statutory debt limit. 

Second, the Treasury is planning to issue a new class of debt, floating-rate notes. 

This would understate the nation’s fiscal burden because interest payments on this 

type of debt will go up faster than on fixed-rate debt when interest rates rise. 

Third, the debt limit should also consider the burden the Fed is creating for future taxpayers by buying longer-term Treasurys with trillions of dollars in shortterm Federal Reserve debt. This will escalate the deficit and the national debt when 

interest rates rise. 

One of the reasons for a debt limit is to protect future generations. This is being 

undermined by the government borrowing short-term. One concept would be to require Treasury to maintain a five-year minimum on the effective duration of the national debt held by the private sector. The Fed’s bond purchases and any floatingrate notes issued by Treasury would reduce the effective duration, causing Treasury 

to lengthen the maturities of its fixed-rate debt issuance. 

In conclusion, the U.S. is stuck in a ‘‘new normal’’ of very slow economic growth, 

high unemployment and falling median incomes. Federal spending and debt trends 

are weighing on growth and investment. The debt limit provides an opportunity to 

break out. The Administration and Congress should create a menu of constructive 

restraints and agree on a package. Movement in this direction would create a very 

positive economic and market reaction. Changes made now, even if they take effect 

in several years, would bring immediate benefits by improving the debt outlook. 
45 

The Costs of Debt Limit Brinksmanship' 

Donald B. Marron 

Institute Fellow & 

Director of Economic Policy Initiatives 

The Urban Institute 

www.urban.org 

Testimony before the Joint Economic Committee 

September 18, 2013 

Vice-Chair Klobuchar, Chairman Brady, and Members of the Committee, thank you for 

inviting me to discuss the debt limit. It's a particular honor and pleasure to appear before 

this Committee, which gave me my start in public service more than a decade ago. 

As you know, the federal government reached the debt limit in May. Since then, Treasury 

has used a variety of extraordinary measures, such as suspending investments in the Thrift 

Savings Plan's G-Fund, to stay within the limit. Those measures will be exhausted in midOctober, according to Treasury Secretary Jack Lew,leaving the government with just $50 

billion of cash on hand.! The debt limit will become truly binding sometime soon thereafter. 

For example, the Bipartisan Policy Center projects that the "X Date" will fall between 

October 18 and November 5.2 After that, Treasury won't be able to pay all of America's bills. 

Congress should keep four things in mind as it works to raise the debt limit before that 

deadline. 

1. Congress must increase the debt limit. Failure to do so will result in severe 

economic harm. 

2. Debt limit brinksmanship is costly, even if Congress avoids breaching the limit at 

the last minute. The 2011 showdown scared investors and consumers, 

weakened the economy, and drove up Treasury borrowing costs . 

• The views expressed here are my own; they do not necessarily reflect the views of the Urban 

Institute. its trustees, or its funders. Erin Behrman, Len Burman, William Gale, Benjamin Harris, 

Erika Poethig, Roberton Williams, and Eric Toder provided helpful comments, but all errors are my 

own. 

1 Lew (2013) 

Z Bell et al. (2013) 

1 
46 

3. Our economy remains fragile. Unemployment has declined since the worst days 

of the Great Recession but remains far too high. Full employment appears to be 

years in the future. Now is not the time to hit the economy with unnecessary 

shocks. 

4. The long-run budget outlook remains challenging. Deficits have fallen sharply in 

the past few years, due to the economic recovery, fading stimulus, deficit 

reduction efforts, and slower growth of health care costs. But current budget 

policies would still create an unsustainable trajectory of debt in coming decades. 

Congress should address that problem. But the near-term fiscal priorities are 

funding the government and increasing the debt limit. 

Given the focus oftoday's hearing, I focus on the first and second points in the remainder of 

my testimony. 

Failing to raise the debt limit would hurt our economy, perhaps catastrophically 

If Congress fails to increase the debt limit, Treasury won't be able to pay all of America's 

bills. Someone-perhaps millions of someones-won't be paid on time. The resulting 

economic damage would grow with each passing day. 

Delaying and prioritizing non-debt payments 

After the "X date," Treasury would have to delay or stop transfer payments, employee 

salaries, and other non-debt payments. A key question is how it would do so. 

One approach would be to delay payments day-by-day until sufficient resources are 

available. For example, if Treasury owed $15 billion on a particular day but had only $5 

billion of free cash, it could wait-a day or a week or a month-until it had the full $15 

billion in hand and then make all of those payments together. It could then repeat the 

process for the next day's set of payments. With each passing day, unpaid bills would pile 

up further, and payments would become more and more delayed. According to Treasury's 

Inspector General, officials concluded that this approach was "the least harmful option 

available to the country" during the 2011 debt limit impasse.3 

Another approach would be for Treasury to pay some bills as they come due, while 

delaying others indefinitely. For example, Treasury might (hypothetically) prioritize 

'Thorson (2012). 

2 
47 

unemployment insurance and veterans' benefits, while delaying tax refunds and payments 

to contractors. In theory, such prioritization might allow Treasury to avoid some of the 

worst damage from a sudden stop in federal payments. In reality, however, it poses a host 

oflogistical, legal, and political challenges. For example, Treasury's systems are not 

designed to allow picking and choosing among the more than 80 million payments it makes 

each month; payments are automatically made as they come due.4 

Either approach would damage the economy. Federal employees, contractors, program 

beneficiaries, businesses, and state and local governments would find themselves suddenly 

short of expected cash, creating a ripple effect through the economy. Delays would be short 

at first, but would grow rapidly given current borrowing needs. The Bipartisan Policy 

Center estimates, for example, that if we hit the "X date" on October 18, Treasury will be 

more than $100 billion short in paying all its bills over the following month.s 

Such delays could pose a significant challenge for any families or businesses that operate 

with tight budgets. Through no fault of their own, they could find themselves unable to pay 

their own bills. 

The personal costs of delayed payments would grow, of course, as delays mounted. So 

would the macroeconomic damage. A short delay in non-debt payments might do relatively 

little harm to the overall economy, but a prolonged delay would be a powerful "antistimulus." In essence, the federal government would have to balance its budget 

immediately by cutting spending. That shock would grow with each passing month (except 

those occasional ones in which the government runs a surplus). It would also undermine 

confidence and increase economic uncertainty, further discouraging economic activity. 

During January's debt limit debate, Macroeconomic Advisers (2013) estimated that such 

spending cuts could drive the economy into a deep recession. Deficits have since come 

down, so the effect would be smaller today, but the basic result still applies. If the 

government has to suddenly move to a balanced budget for an extended period, the U.S. 

economy would likely plunge into recession. 

Debt default 

An even more severe possibility is that Treasury might default on the federal debt. To 

prevent that from happening, I expect that Treasury will attempt to prioritize interest and 

principal payments, but there is a risk that it won't succeed.6 

• Thorson (2012). 

5 Bell et al. (2013). 

6 The Bipartisan Policy Center (Bell et al. 2013) and Macroeconomic Advisers LLC (2013) also 

anticipate this approach. As far as I know, no administration representative has publicly endorsed 

3 
48 

Prioritizing debt payments over other obligations is technically feasible because they go 

through Fedwire, a computer system separate from the one that handles other payments. It 

is also appropriate because it would maintain the full faith and credit of the United States in 

financial markets. Less clear is whether prioritizing debt payments would be financially 

feasible. Interest payments average only 8 percent of federal revenues at the moment,? but 

cash management isn't about averages. Interest payments are lumpy, and tax receipts are 

lumpy and uncertain, so Treasury would have to take care in matching them. In addition, 

there's a risk that a debt limit crisis may cause problems rolling over maturing debt issues. 

For both reasons, debt prioritization is harder than sometimes claimed, and Treasury 

might unintentionally find itself short of cash when an interest payment comes due or 

maturing debt needs to be rolled over. 

In considering this risk, Congress should keep in mind that accidents can happen. In 1979, 

for example, Treasury accidentally defaulted on a portion of the debt in the wake of a debt 

limit showdown: 

Investors in T -bills maturing April 26, 1979 were told that the U.S. Treasury could 

not make its payments on maturing securities to individual investors. The Treasury 

was also late in redeeming T -bills which became due on May 3 and May 10, 1979. 

The Treasury blamed this delay on an unprecedented volume of participation by 

small investors, on failure of Congress to act in a timely fashion on the debt ceiling 

legislation in April, and on an unanticipated failure of word processing equipment 

used to prepare check schedules. (Zivney and Marcus 1989) 

That default was narrow, applying only to T -bills owned by individual investors, and was 

rectified in a few weeks. Nonetheless, financial markets reacted badly. Zivney and Marcus 

(1989) estimate that T-bill interest rates increased by about 60 basis points after the first 

default and remained elevated several months thereafter. The default thus significantly 

boosted the government's borrowing costs. 

If a debt limit impasse forced Treasury to default on the debt today, the results would be at 

least as severe. Faced with new risks, investors would demand a premium to invest in U.S. 

Treasuries. Debt service costs would rise, crowding out funding for government programs, 

forcing higher taxes, or boosting deficits. 

But higher interest rates are only the beginning of the costs. Default would also threaten 

our financial system and, thereby, the real economy. Treasury securities playa unique and 

debt prioritization, but in the final days ofthe 2011 impasse, one anonymous official reportedly 

said that Treasury would do it if necessary (Cook and Hopkins 2011). 

7 Congressional Budget Office (2013). 

4 
49 

vital role in financial markets. Large swaths of America's financial infrastructure have been 

built on the assumption that U.S. Treasuries pay on time. Treasury securities serve as 

collateral in the short-term lending markets that provide trillions of dollars ofliquidity to 

the financial system. In addition, money market funds hold Treasury securities to make 

sure they can repay savers' investments. 

Those financing arrangements all presume that Treasuries are money-good. If the federal 

government defaulted, those markets would begin to unravel. Credit would tighten, 

financial institutions would scramble for cash, and savers might desert money market 

funds. The magnitude of the resulting economic harm is difficult to judge and would 

depend on the scope and duration of the default. But anyone who remembers the financial 

crisis of five years ago should shudder at the thought of disrupting these markets again.s 

"Super-extraordinary" measures won't save us 

Given the severe economic harm of delaying payments or defaulting on the debt, many 

observers have wondered whether Treasury might find another way out-a "superextraordinary" measure-that would allow it to keep paying America's bills even if the debt 

limit isn't raised. Ideas include ignoring the debt limit on the grounds that it violates the 

14th Amendment to the Constitution,9 using a loophole in coinage laws to mint platinum 

coins of extremely large denominations,1o or selling gold or other assets owned by the 

government. 

These ideas differ in their particulars, but share one common feature: administration 

officials have rejected all of them as impractical or illegal. The president's lawyers 

reportedly do not believe that the 14th Amendment gives him the authority to ignore the 

debt Iimit.ll Treasury and the Federal Reserve announced that platinum coins won't 

work.1Z And Treasury officials have concluded that selling gold would be "destabilizing to 

the world financial system" and that selling student loans (the government's largest 

financial asset) would not be feasible.B 

8 Matthew Zanes (2012) describes the financial market risks at greater length; at the time, he 

chaired the Treasury Borrowing Advisory Committee. 

9 Section 4 of the amendment reads: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized 

by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing 

insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned." 

10 Marron (2013). 

11 See, e.g., Calmes and Hulse (2011): '''I have talked to my lawyers: Mr. Obama said, and 'they are 

not persuaded that this is a winning argument.'" 

12 Klein (2013) quotes Treasury spokesman Anthony Coley: "Neither the Treasury Department nor 

the Federal Reserve believes that the law can or should be used to facilitate the production of 

platinum coins for the purpose of avoiding an increase in the debt limit." 

13 Thorson (2012). 

5 
50 

Treasury thus has no good options when the debt limit clock runs out. Billions, then tens of 

billions, then hundreds of billions in federal obligations would go unpaid, and millions of 

Americans would suffer the consequences. 

Brinksmanship also imposes large economic and fiscal costs 

Going past the "X date" would harm our economy and our people. That's why it's vital for 

Congress to increase the debt limit. 

But that isn't enough. To completely avoid harm, Congress must do more: it must raise the 

debt limit without the extreme brinksmanship we saw in 2011. Such brinksmanship does 

not come free; instead, it imposes costs in its own right. 

First, and most important, is the risk of making a mistake. Cash flows are uncertain, and 

parties to heated negotiations sometimes misread their opponents' position and 

capabilities. As a result, there is always the risk that brinksmanship would result in the 

United States going over the brink by accident, delaying payments and raising the risk of 

debt default. 

Second, interest rates would rise. Investors are forward-looking. If they believe there is a 

real risk that Treasury might default in the future, they will demand a premium for holding 

Treasury securities today. That's exactly what happened during the 2011 crisis. As 

documented by the Government Accountability Office (2012), the funding advantage that 

the United States enjoys over private businesses narrowed during that debate, suggesting 

that investors saw greater risk in holding Treasuries. GAO estimates that the federal 

government paid out an extra $1.3 billion in interest during fiscal 2011 as a direct result. 

Over the full maturity of the debt, that figure balloons to $18.9 billion according to the 

Bipartisan Policy Center. Brinksmanship can be expensive." 

Third, debt limit showdowns increase uncertainty and reduce confidence. As a result, 

families and businesses may cut back on their spending and investment while they wait to 

see what will happen. During the 2011 debt limit crisis, consumer confidence and the stock 

market both plummeted and concern about financial market risks skyrocketed. 

14 The GAO (2011) notes that debt limit impasses disrupt the regular schedule of Treasury bill and 

bond auctions and thus weaken Treasury's ability to get the lowest interest rates. The GAO 

estimates that the debt limit debates in 2002, 2003, and 2010 "modestly" increased borrowing 

costs as a result. 

6 
51 

Finally, brinksmanship weakens America's global image. The United States is the only 

major nation whose leaders talk openly about the possibility of self-inflicted default. At the 

risk of sounding like Vladimir Putin, such exceptionalism is not healthy. As every other 

nation understands, if you need to borrow, you can only hurt yourself by scaring your 

creditors. But the problem is deeper than that. Debating intentional default contributes to 

the perception that the United States does not know how to govern itself. 

The debt limit is one failure of a broken budget process; we need a new one 

The debt limit is a peculiar and flawed feature of America's fiscal policy. Borrowing 

decisions cannot be made in a vacuum, separate from other fiscal choices. America borrows 

today because this and previous Congresses chose to spend more than we collect in 

revenue, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not. If Congress is concerned about debt, 

it needs to act when it makes those spending and revenue deCisions, not months or years 

later when financial commitments are already in place. 

When the dust settles on our immediate fiscal challenges, Congress should re-examine the 

entire budget process, seeking ways to make it more effective and less susceptible to 

dangerous, after-the-fact brinksmanship. 

Thank you again for inviting me to appear today. I look forward to your questions. 

References 

Bell, Steve, Shai Akabas, Brian Collins, and Ashton Kunkle. 2013. Debt Limit Analysis. 

Bipartisan Policy Center. September. 

Calmes, Jackie and Carl Hulse. 2011. Debt Ceiling Talks Collapse as Boehner Walks Out. The 

New York Times. July 22. 

Congressional Budget Office. 2013. Updated Budget Projections: Fiscal Years 2013-2023. 

May 14. 

Cook, Peter and Cheyenne Hopkins. 2011. U.S. Contingency Plan Said to Give Priority to 

~ondhold~Is. Bloomberg. July 28. 

General Accountability Office. 2011. Debt Limit: Delays Create Debt Management 

Challenges and Increase Uncertainty in the Treasury Market (GAO-11-203). February. 

7 
52 

General Accountability Office. 2012. Debt Limit: Analysis of 2011-2012 Actions Taken and 

Effect of Delayed Increase on Borrowing Costs (GAO-12-701). july. 

Klein, Ezra. 2013. Treasury: We Won't MinJ:A Platinum Coin to $jpgstep the DE!bt Ceiling. 

Washington Post Wonkblog. January 12. 

Lew, Jacob. 2013. Letter to the Honorable John A. Boehner. Department of Treasury. August 

26. 

Macroeconomic Advisers LLC. 2013. Fiscal Risks: Debt Ceiling. Sequester. Shutdown! The 

Macroadvisers Blog. january 22. 

Marron, Donald. 2013. Is the Trillion-Dollar Platinum Coin Clever or Insane? TaxVox: The 

Blog of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. january 8. 

Thorson, Eric. 2012. Letter to the Honorable Orrin Hatch. Office of Inspector General, 

Department of Treasury. August 24. 

Zanes, Matthew E. 2011 Letter to the Honorable Timothy Geithner. J.P. Morgan. April 25. 

Zivney, Terry L. and Richard D. Marcus. 1989. The Day the United States Defaulted on 

Treasury Bills. The Financial Review 24(3): 475-489. 

8 
53 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAN MITCHELL

Vice Chair Klobuchar, members of the Committee, thank you for this opportunity 

to testify about the debt limit. My name is Dan Mitchell. I’m a Senior Fellow at 

the Cato Institute. The views I express here today are my own. 

I want to make five points. 

First, it’s important to understand that America’s chief fiscal problem is an excessive burden of government spending. That’s true today, and, as yesterday’s long-run 

CBO fiscal outlook demonstrated, too much spending is our problem in the future. 

Deficits and debt are undesirable, of course, but so are high taxes and printing 

money, which are the other two ways of financing government spending. 

Simply stated, the true fiscal tax on our economy is how much government is 

spending. That’s the problem. Deficits and debt, by contrast, are symptoms of that 

problem. Overall government spending is the measure of how much money is being 

diverted from the economy’s productive sector. That’s the primary problem. The various ways of financing that spending are secondary problems. 

Second, the best way to gauge the success of fiscal policy is to see whether the 

burden of government spending is growing faster or slower than private economic 

output. If the private sector is growing faster than the government—which I consider to be the Golden Rule of Fiscal Policy—then lawmakers are doing a good job. 

But if the converse is true and the burden of spending is rising faster than the 

private sector, then policy is heading in the wrong direction. 

The data for any one year is important, but the real test is what happens over 

time. In other words, fiscal trendlines are critical. 

If government spending grows slower than the productive sector of the economy 

for an extended period of time, this almost certainly means better economic performance because the relative burden of government is declining. And because the problem of spending is being properly addressed, this also means that the symptom of 

red ink almost certainly is falling as well. 

But if the opposite occurs, and government grows faster than the private sector 

for an extended period, then it’s just a matter of time before serious fiscal and economic problems occur. Nations such as Greece, for instance, got in trouble because 

the politicians did the opposite of the Golden Rule of Fiscal Policy. 

Third, it’s possible to make rapid progress with even a modest amount of spending 

restraint. Consider what’s happened the past two years. For the first time in more 

than 50 years, we’ve enjoyed two consecutive years when overall government spending was lower than the previous year. 

This has led to a big improvement in the key fiscal indicator, with the burden 

of federal government spending falling from 24.1 percent of GDP to 21.5 percent of 

economic output. And because there was progress on the real problem, the symptom 

of red ink got much better as well, with the deficit falling by more than 50 percent, 

from $1.3 trillion to $642 billion. 

We don’t even need that degree of fiscal discipline going forward. As illustrated 

by this chart, we can balance the budget in just 3 years if spending grows by an 

average of 1 percent annually. Red ink disappears in 4 years if spending grows by 

an average of 2 percent per year. And the deficit goes away in 7 years if spending 

grows by an average of 3 percent each year. 
54 

Indeed, it’s worth noting what Canada achieved in the 1990s. The burden of government spending had reached crisis levels by 1992, with government consuming 

more than 50 percent of economic output. But Canadian lawmakers—primarily during a time when the Liberal Party was in charge—put the brakes on spending. 

For a period of five years, government outlays grew by an average of just 1 percent per year. That dramatically reduced the burden of government relative to the 

private sector. And by dealing with the underlying problem, Canada also went from 

having a large deficit of about 9 percent of GDP to a budget surplus. 

Let’s now deal directly with the debt ceiling. My fourth point is that an increase 

in the debt ceiling is not needed to avert a default. Simply stated, the federal government is collecting far more in revenue than what’s needed to pay interest on that 

debt. 

To put some numbers on the table, interest payments are about $230 billion per 

year while federal tax revenues are approaching $3 trillion per year. There’s no 

need to fret about a default. 

But don’t believe me. Let’s look at the views of some folks that disagree with me 

on many fiscal issues, but nonetheless are not prone to false demagoguery. 

Donald Marron, head of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and former Director of the Congressional Budget Office, explained what actually would happen in an 

article for CNN Money. 

If we hit the debt limit . . . that does not mean that we will default on the 

public debt. . . . [The Treasury Secretary] would undoubtedly keep making 

payments on the public debt, rolling over the outstanding principal and 

paying interest. Interest payments are relatively small, averaging about 

$20 billion per month. 

And here is the analysis of Stan Collender, one of Washington’s best-known commentators on budget issues. 

There is so much misinformation and grossly misleading talk about what 

will happen if the federal debt ceiling isn’t increased . . . it’s worth taking 

a few steps back from the edge. . . . if a standoff on raising the debt ceiling 

lasts for a significant amount of time . . . a default wouldn’t be automatic 

because payments to existing bondholders could be made the priority while 

payments to others could be delayed for months. 

Or what about the Economist magazine, which made this sage observation. 
55 

Even with no increase in the ceiling, the Treasury can easily service its existing debt; it is free to roll over maturing issues, and tax revenue covers 

monthly interest payments by a large multiple. 

Let me add one caveat to all this analysis. I suppose it’s possible that a default 

might occur, but only if the Secretary of the Treasury deliberately chose not to pay 

interest in the debt. But that won’t happen. Not only because the Obama Administration wouldn’t want to needlessly roil financial markets, but also since research 

by Administration lawyers in the 1960s concluded that the Secretary of the Treasury might be personally liable in the event of a default. Mr. Lew has more than 

one reason to make sure the government pays interest on the debt. 

My final point is that a fight on the debt limit might be worthwhile, even if it 

does cause considerable short-run angst and uncertainty. It all depends on whether 

it leads to desirable reforms. 

Let’s look at the example of Greece. There’s nothing akin to a debt limit in that 

country, but imagine there was. Let’s further imagine that a group of lawmakers 

15 years ago dug in their heels and refused to allow more red ink. 

That probably would have caused a lot of turmoil at the time. But if the net result 

was to force Greek politicians to restrain spending for a multi-year period, then it’s 

quite likely that the people of Greece would have been spared the economic and fiscal misery that they’ve been suffering over the past few years. 

Let’s close with an analogy. Yesterday’s long-run fiscal outlook from CBO shows 

that a do-nothing or status-quo approach guarantees fiscal chaos. We don’t know if 

a crisis will occur in fifteen years or twenty-five years. Or maybe we even have more 

than 25 years since the U.S. will benefit from capital flows when nations such as 

Japan and France implode. 

But at some point the United States will suffer the same type of crisis that we’ve 

witnessed in other nations. We’re in a car and we’re heading toward a cliff, even 

though it’s hard to estimate how much father we can drive before we careen over 

the edge. 

Wouldn’t it be a good idea to take steps today—when it’s relatively easy—to avoid 

that potential future crisis? To at least begin to steer away from the cliff? Perhaps 

by adopting something akin to Switzerland’s ‘‘debt brake,’’ which basically imposes 

an annual spending cap? 

In other words, I’m not at all worried about short-run brinksmanship. Particularly 

since there’s no realistic possibility of default. But I am worried about the long-run 

trendline of government spending. And if some brinksmanship today means spending in the future won’t grow as fast, then the nation will be in a much stronger 

fiscal position. 
56 

JOINT ECONOMICCOMMlnLE :~: UNlrLDSIArESCONGRL'iS \'IiE<}-f\!R\'flKIOmn[\R ~~ ',.1 SIPII\lBJH2013 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING BRINKSMANSHIP 

Executive Summary 

The federal government effectively reached its borrowing limit on May 19,2013. 

"Extraordinary measures" undertaken by the Treasury Department since then will 

allow the federal government to postpone default until mid-October. Even if an 

actual default is averted, a delay in lifting the debt ceiling could increase 

uncertainty, erode consumer confidence and result in higher borrowing costs for 

businesses and individuals. 

Because a default would cause significant harm to the economy, even the mere 

prospect of a default can affect the decision-making of households and businesses. 

A default would disrupt financial markets, limit access to credit and raise financing 

costs. It could also trigger a run on money market funds and cause significant harm 

to the U.S. economy by forcing the country to renege on commitments to 

individuals, businesses and governments. 

With so much at stake, debt-ceiling brinksmanship poses serious and unnecessary 

risks to the U.S. economy, a fact that became clear during the protracted debtceiling showdown of 20 11. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped over 2,000 

points in late July and early August of that year as Congress struggled to raise the 

debt ceiling, and Standard and Poor's downgraded the U.S. credit rating. Consumer 

confidence also fell sharply in that period. 

A delay in lifting the debt ceiling, and the resulting uncertainty, also increases 

borrowing costs for the government. The impasse on lifting the debt ceiling in 

2011, for example, meant that the Treasury had to pay higher yields than otherwise 

would have been necessary, costing taxpayers $1.3 billion. 

This report examines the effects of debt-ceiling brinksmanship and outlines its 

impact on the U.S. economic recovery. 
57 

JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE :~: UNI I ED S IAll5 CONCRLSS 'Hf(IJ\lR\\fl.KI0f)1!II\h ~ '-' SIPll\IB!R2on 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING BRINKSMANSHIP 

The federal government effectively reached its 

borrowing limit on May 19, 2013.' Since 

then, the Treasury Department has 

undertaken so-called "extraordinary measures" that 

increase the federal government's borrowing 

capacity, allowing the government to postpone 

default until mid-October.' 

With that deadline approaching, there is broad 

agreement among the nation's economic leaders 

that action must be taken to raise the debt ceiling 

and avoid default. Failure to do so would have 

serious economic consequences - potentially 

disrupting financial markets, limiting access to 

credit and raising financing costs for consumers and 

businesses. Foreign investors, who hold nearly half 

of U.S. debt, could reduce their purchases of U.S. 

Treasuries for an extended period of time, or sell 

some of their holdings of U.S. debt. A default could 

also trigger a run on money market funds, sparking 

a severe and disruptive crisis.' 

Because the economic stakes of a potential 

government default are so high, debt-ceiling 

brinksmanship increases economic uncertainty, 

which has economic costs. The prolonged 

uncertainty during the debt-ceiling debate in 20 II 

resulted in a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating by 

Standard and Poor's. Delays in lifting the debt 

ceiling have been shown to increase costs for the 

federal government and impair the operation of the 

market for Treasury debt, affecting those who 

benefit from the liquidity provided by that debt 

market. 

Background 

The debt ceiling, or debt limit, is the maximum 

amount of outstanding federal debt the government 

can incur under statute. Raising the debt ceiling 

allows the United States to pay for mandatory and 

discretionary spending Congress has already 

obligated, honoring commitments made to 

households, businesses and governments, both here 

and abroad. Normally, the U.S. government sells 

Treasury securities to finance budget deficits. Once 

the debt limit has been reached, Congress must 

approve an increase to the debt ceiling before the 

Treasury can issue new bonds. Increasing the debt 

limit authorizes the Treasury to sell bonds to 

finance spending. 

Because the debt limit is defined in terms of a 

particular dollar amount, normal growth in the U.s. 

economy means that the debt limit will be reached 

inevitably after some time. Congress has raised the 

debt ceiling more than 70 times since 1962 and has 

voted on the debt limit 12 times since 2002.' The 

last Congressional vote to increase the debt limit 

was part of the Budget Control Act of 20 II, signed 

into law by President Obama in August 2011, which 

increased the Treasury's borrowing capacity by 

between $2.1 and $2.4 trillion in three increments.' 

More recently, Congress voted to suspend the debt 

limit through May 18, 20136 Once the debt-limit 

suspension lapsed, the Treasury reset the debt limit 

at $16.699 trillion ($305 billion above the previous 

statutory limit) to go into effect on the next business 

day, May 20.' The Treasury Department also began 
58 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING BRINKSMANSHIP SEPTEMBER 2013 

extraordinary measures to allow the government to 

continue to operate. 

How a Default Might Affect Markets, 

Consumers and Businesses 

If Congress does not increase the debt ceiling to pay 

for spending already committed by Congress and, 

as a result, the Treasury fails to make the debtrelated payments for which it is responsible, default 

would occur, resulting in significant harm to the 

economy_ 

In 2011 testimony before the Senate Banking 

Committee, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Ben 

Bernanke said that a default would be a "calamitous 

outcome" and "create a very severe financial 

shock.'" The global financial system relies on 

Treasuries, which have long been considered one of 

the safest investments. Bemanke explained that a 

"default on those securities would throw the 

financial system into chaos.'" He likewise observed 

that not raising the debt ceiling is "like a family 

saying, 'Well, we're spending too much -let's stop 

paying our credit card bill."'" 

It is difficult to provide a precise estimate of the 

economic costs resulting from an actual default, but 

it is not hard to illustrate the significance of those 

potential costs to consumers and businesses. ll 

Chaos in the financial system, such as Chairman 

Bernanke described, would undermine credit and 

equity markets and impair the economy's capacity 

to grow. Limitations on access to credit, for 

example, would raise investment costs. For 

consumers, the increased cost of credit could 

translate into less borrowing for purchases of 

homes, autos or other durable goods and education. 

Businesses could encounter difficulties in acquiring 

the short-term debt they need to finance their 

payrolls or accumulate inventories, and higher 

financing costs would lead them to invest less in 

equipment and construction. In addition to the costs 

to consumers and businesses, cash-strapped 

municipalities would also face higher financing 

costs and could be forced to make cuts to essential 

services such as education and public health. 

Apart from the costs that stem directly from the 

financial market impacts, a default would require 

the federal government to limit, delay or even 

suspend payments to creditors, program 

beneficiaries and others. The federal government 

makes about 80 million payments each month." 

Delays in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, 

veterans' benefits, unemployment insurance and 

other essential government programs would have a 

direct impact on millions of Americans and, in tum, 

would negatively affect the economy by pushing 

down consumer spending. For example: 

• If Social Security benefits were delayed or 

disrupted, 57.5 million Americans would not 

receive their monthly Social Security 

payments in a timely manner." About 70 

percent of Social Security beneficiaries are 

retirees and 30 percent of beneficiaries 

receive survivors insurance or disability 

insurance payments. The average monthly 

Social Security benefit is $1,159." Without 

these payments, retirees, widow( er)s and 

disabled workers would struggle to make 

ends meet. In addition, more than $66.6 

billion in monthly benefits would not enter 

the economy when expected - damaging the 

economic recovery. 

If veterans' benefits were delayed, 3.4 

million veterans would not receive serviceconnected disability benefits on time. While 

those payments vary greatly based on the 

degree of the veteran's disability and the 

number of dependents, the average annual 

payment is $11,500. In FY 2011, those 

annual payments totaled nearly $39.4 

billion." 
59 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING BRINKSMANSHIP SEPTEMBER 2013 

Uncertainty and the Costs of Delaying an 

Increase in the Debt Ceiling 

Even if a default is ultimately avoided, the 

increased uncertainty in the days leading up to a 

debt-ceiling deadline would also have negative 

effects on the economy. That is because the costs of 

default are so significant that even a small chance of 

such an outcome must be factored into the decisions 

made by consumers, businesses and investors. In 

the face of the uncertainty, a consumer or business 

may choose to delay purchases or decrease 

investment. The way in which the debt-ceiling 

impasse is resolved can also affect uncertainty and 

economic behavior. 

There is precedent for this uncertainty to harm the 

economy: In 2011, the Dow Jones Industrial 

Average dropped more than 2,000 points in late 

July and early August as Congress struggled to 

reach an agreement on lifting the debt ceiling, and 

Standard and Poor's downgraded its quality rating 

of U.S. sovereign debt (Figure 1).'6 Although the 

stock market eventually recovered, the lower 

Standard and Poor's rating remains. The volatility 

affected the portfolios of consumers and businesses 

and may have led many to change their 

13,000 

12,000 

11.000 

10,000 

Figure 1. Dow Jones Industrial Average Plunges 

2000 Points During 2011 Debt-ceiling Battle 

Daily Closing Average, July 2011~ August 2011 

"-::-:0, A-""-:-:-: t10C-:-, 'WOC-:-"'-:-d",c-:- d,,,--'/ 

after the credit rating downgrade, 

the DJIA closed at 10,719.94. 

7/1 7/11 7/21 7/31 S/10 8/20 8/30 

Source: JEC Oemocraticstaffbased on data from the Feder;'ll Reserve B;'Ink of St. Loui s 

consumption and investment plans, even if only for 

a short period. 

Standard and Poor's downgraded the U.s. 

government's credit rating from AAA based on the 

protracted delay in increasing the debt limit and on 

its assessment of how the impasse was resolved, In 

announcing the first-ever downgrade of U.S. 

sovereign debt, Standard and Poor's noted: 

"We lowered our long-term rating on the 

us. because we believe that the prolonged 

controversy over raising the statutory debt 

ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate 

indicate that further near-term progress 

containing the growth in public spending, 

especially on entitlements, or on reaching 

an agreement on raising revenues is less 

likely than we previously assumed and will 

remain a contentious and fitful process. ,,17 

Some fear that a repeat of 2011 could lead other 

ratings agencies to also downgrade the U.S. credit 

rating, Fitch Ratings warned on January 15th of this 

year that "failure to raise the debt ceiling in a timely 

manner will prompt a formal review of the U,S, 

sovereign ratings."18 

Standard and Poor's, which on June 10, 2013 

changed its long-term rating on U,S, sovereign debt 

trom "negative" to "stable" due to the improved 

U.s. fiscal outlook, noted that: 

"Although we expect some political 

posturing to coincide with raising the 

government's debt ceiling, which now 

appears likely to occur near the Sept, 30 

fiscal year-end, we assume with our outlook 

revision that the debate will not result in a 

sudden unplanned contraction in current 

spending which could be disruptive - let 

alone debt service. ,,19 

Thus, another bout of debt-ceiling brinksmanship, 

or forcing indiscriminate spending cuts as a 

condition for raising the debt ceiling, would be a 

step in the wrong direction, It could endanger U.s, 
60 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING BRINKSMANSHIP SEPTEMBER 2013 

creditworthiness and reduce market confidence in 

the U.S. economy. 

Consumer surveys in 2011 also illustrated the 

potential for a debt-ceiling impasse to increase 

uncertainty. Consumer confidence, as measured by 

the Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan Index 

of Consumer Sentiment, fell sharply in July and 

August of201 1, dropping from 71.5 in June to 63.7 

in July and 55.8 in August (Figure 2). In releasing 

the August data, Thomson ReuterslUniversity of 

Michigan noted: 

"Never before in the history of the surveys 

have so many consumers spontaneously 

mentioned negative aspects of the 

government's role, and never before have 

consumers rated economic policies so 

unfavorably. ,,2. 

It took until January 2012 for confidence to return 

to the June 2011 level (Figure 2). This decline may 

have signaled a drop in consumers' willingness to 

make purchases, relative to what they would have 

done had the debt ceiling been resolved in a timely 

manner. 

Delays in lifting the debt ceiling also complicate the 

already complex task of managing the federal debt. 

By forcing the Treasury to take "extraordinary 

measures" to temporarily increase the government's 

borrowing capacity, brinksmanship forces the 

Treasury into decisions it would not have otherwise 

deemed consistent with prudent debt management. 

Such measures could affect market outcomes. For 

example, in the past the Treasury has been forced to 

cancel auctions for short-term debt as a debt-ceiling 

deadline approached without a resolution in sight. 

These cancellations can be extremely disruptive to 

the operation of global money markets especially as 

the global financial system continues to recover 

from the crisis of recent years.21 

Impasses over raising the debt ceiling, and the 

extraordinary measures the Treasury must take in 

the interim, can erode confidence in the relative 

risks that markets associate with holding Treasury 

securities. That decline in confidence has translated 

Figure 2. Consumer Confidence Drops Sharply in 2011 

Debt·Ceiling Showdown 

Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan Consumer Sentiment Index, 

January 2011" December 2012 

85 

80 

75 

70 

65 

60 

55 

50 

_ll_"Mn~"_U_UMU~U 

Sour(e: lEe Democratic staff baM!d on data from Thomson Relltel'$/Uniwrsity of 

Michigall Surveys of COflsumers. 

into higher borrowing costs for the federal 

government. The United States has long benefited 

from the widespread belief that U.s. debt is among 

the safest forms of debt in the world; indeed, 

Treasury rates are widely used as benchmarks for 

"risk-free" rates that determine other market rates. 

If investors believe that U.S. debt has become 

riskier, they will demand a higher yield when 

purchasing it, which would increase the costs of 

borrowing for the U.S. government. 

Studies have concluded that in recent decades some 

debt-ceiling events have raised short-term Treasu7z 

yields relative to comparable private market debt. 2 

During such periods, the Treasury has to pay higher 

yields than would otherwise be necessary, as 

happened in 20 II. A recent study of daily market 

data collected during the debt-ceiling impasse of 

2011 found higher borrowing costs to the Treasury, 

and American taxpayers, which amounted to $1.3 

billion in fiscal year 20 II alone." 

Debate over raising the debt ceiling should not be 

tied to negotiations on further reducing the deficit. 

While more must be done to move the nation 

toward fiscal responsibility, Congress has already 

taken steps to reduce deficits by at least $2.4 

trillion. However, the vast majority of the savings to 

... 

Q) 

g> 

a.. 
61 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING BRINKSMANSHIP SEPTEMBER 2013 

date come from spending cuts and, if sequestration 

continues, the ratio of spending cuts to revenue 

increases will be four-to-one24 Both the National 

Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform 

and the Senate-passed budget call for a roughly 

even split between spending cuts and revenue 

increases. Futnre deficit reduction needs to be more 

evenly balanced between revenue and spending 

cuts, and the debate on the budget should not be tied 

to raising the debt ceiling. 

Conclusion 

A delay in lifting the debt ceiling - even if default is 

ultimately avoided - increases uncertainty and has 

real economic costs. Delays in raising the debt 

ceiling increase costs for the federal government 

and affect the market for U.S. debt. Individuals and 

businesses may also face higher borrowing costs. 

As was seen in 2011, consumer confidence and the 

financial markets may be negatively affected. There 

is broad agreement that another bout of debt-ceiling 

brinksmanship would increase uncertainty, creating 

a new headwind for the ongoing economic 

recovery. 

Sources: 

I Congressional Budget Office, "Federal Debt and the 

Statutory Limit, June 2013," June 11, 2013. 

http://www.cbo.gov/publicationJ44324. 

Z Letter from Secretary of the Treasury Lew to Speaker of the 

House of Representatives Boehner, August, 26, 2013, 

http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives!documents/082613%20deb 

t%20Iimit%20Ietter%20to%20congress.pdf estimating that 

extraordinary measures will be exhausted by mid-October; see 

also Letter from Secretary of the Treasury Lew to Speaker of 

the House of Representatives Boehner, May 17, 2013. 

http://www.treasury.nov/initiatives/Documents/Debt%20Limit 

%205-17-13%20Boehner.pdf explaining in detail the 

extraordinary measures being undertaken by the U.S. 

Treasury, which Treasury estimated will not be exhausted 

until after Labor Day. More recently" the CBO announced that 

it expected the extraordinary measures taken by the Treasury 

Department would run out sometime in October or November 

of this year. See Congressional Budget Office, "Federal Debt 

and the Statutory Limit, June 2013," June 11,2013. 

3 Letter from Chainnan of Treasury Borrowing Advisory 

Committee to Secretary of the Treasury Geithner, April 25, 

2011. 

4 Austin, D. Andrew, and Mindy R. Levit, '''The Debt Limit: 

History and Recent Increases," Congressional Research 

Service, May 22, 2013; and Masters. Jonathan, "U.S. Debt 

Ceiling: Costs and Consequences," Council on Foreign 

Relations, January 2, 2013. 

5 Budget Control Act of201l, PL 112-25, August 2, 2011. 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLA w~ 112publ2S/pdtJPLAW112pubI25.pdf. 

6 On January 23, 2013, the House passed H.R. 325, which 

suspended the debt limit through May 18, 2013; the Senate 

passed the measure on January 31, and it was signed into law 

by President Obama on February 4. 

? Austin, D, Andrew, and Mindy R. Levit, "The Debt Limit: 

History and Recent Increases," Congressional Research 

Service, May 22, 2013. 

g Federal Reserve Chainnan Bemanke, The Semiannual 

Monetary Policy Report to Congress, Hearing before the 

Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs, 

July 14, 2011. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsysfpkglCHRG1 12shrg72339/pdf/CHRG-l12shfo 72339.pdf. 

9 Ibid. 

10 Federal Reserve Chainnan Bernanke, quoted in Taibbi, 

Matt, "The Mad Science of the National Debt," Rolling Stone, 

May 22, 2013. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics!news!tllemad-science-of~the-national-debt-20 130522. 

II Austin, D. Andrew and Rena Miller, "Treasury Securities 

and the U.S. Sovereign Credit Default Swap Market," 

Congressional Research Service. August 15, 2011. Part oftbe 

difficulty in quantifying the impact of a default is that defaults 

are not common occurrences. The U.S. Treasury has only once 

missed a payment on Treasury bills. In 1979, the Treasury 

failed to make payments on $122 million in Treasury bills on 

time. According to one analysis, that incident increased rates 

by 60 basis points for several years. 

12 Letter from Secretary of the Treasury Geithner to Speaker 

of the House of Representatives Boehner, January 14, 2013. 

http://wv.'W . treasury. gov I connectlbloglPages/SecretaryGeidmer-Sends-Debt-Limit-Letter-to-Congress-I-t 4-13 .aspx. 
62 

Æ 

THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF DEBT-CEILING BRINKSMANSHIP SEPTEMBER 2013 

13 Social Security Administration, Monthly Statistical 

Snapshot, Table 2, June 2013. 

http://www.ssa.goY/policyJdocs/guickfacts/stat snapshot!. 

!4 Ibid. 

15 U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Benefits 

Administration, "Annual Benefits Report: Fiscal Year 20 II," 

pp. 8-9. http://www.vba.va.gov/REPORTS/ahrI2011 abr.pdf. 

16 The federal debt reached its statutory limit on May 16, 

2011. Extraordinary measures were used to enable the federal 

government to meet its obligations before an agreement on the 

debt ceiling was finalized on August 2, 2011. The Dow Jones 

Industrial Average declined by more than 600 points on 

August 8, 2011, the first trading day after Standard and Poor's 

downgraded the United States' credit rating. 

17 "United States of America Long~ Tenn Rating Lowered to 

• AA +' Due to Political Risks, Rising Debt Burden; Outlook 

Negative," Standard and Poor's, August 5, 2011. 

http://wv..W.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en!us!?asset 

lD-1245316529563. 

18 Fitch Ratings, "Fitch: Debt Ceiling Delay Would Prompt 

Formal US Rating Review," January 15, 2013. 

http://www.fitchratings.comicreditdesk/press releases/detail.c 

fm?pr id-779570&cm sp-homepage~ ~ 

FeaturedContentLink~ -Leam%20More. 

19 Standard & Poor's, "United States of America 'AA+IA-l+' 

Ratings Affirmed; Outlook Revised To Stable On Receding 

Fiscal Risks," June 10,2013. 

10 Surveys of Consumers Thomson Reuters/University of 

Michigan, "Economic Downturn Expected by Consumers,'" 

August 26, 2011. 

hUp:!lwww.sca.isr.umich.edu!fetchdoc.php?docid=42908 

2.1 U.S. Government Accountability Office, "Debt Limit: 

Delays Create Debt Management Challenges and Increase 

Uncertainty in the Treasury Market," GAO-ll-203, February 

22,2011. http://www.Qao.gov/products/GAO-II-203. 

n S. Nippani, et. aI., "Are Treasury Securities Free of 

Default?" The Journal of Financial and Quantitative Ana/ysis~ 

Vol. 36, No.2, Special Issue on Corporate Governance, June 

2001. pp. 251-265; and, P. Liu, et. aI., "Did the repeated debt 

ceiling controversies embed default risk in US Treasury 

securities?" Journal of Banking and Finance, Vo1. 33, 2009. 

pp.1464-1471. 

23 U.S. Government Accountability Office, "Debt Limit: 

Analysis of 2011-2012 Actions Taken and Effect of Delayed 

Increase on Borrowing Costs," GAO-12-701, July 23, 2012. 

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-701. 

24 Memo from Senator Patty Murray and Senate Budget 

Committee majority staff to members of the United States 

Senate, January 24, 20l3. 

https;//www .aamc.onddownload/327164!datalsenatebudgetco 

mmitteechairmemo.pdf. 

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