UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

IN THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: EXTREME ENERGY SOLUTIONS, INCORPORATED RESPONDENT DOCKET NO. FAA-2015-1322

_____________________________________________________

TELECONFERENCE HEARING BEFORE THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2015 1:34 P.M. HISTORIC JORDAN SPRINGS 1160 JORDAN SPRINGS ROAD STEPHENSON, VIRGINIA 22656Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 2

1 AP PE ARANCES 2 ON B EHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF, 3 FE DE RAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION: 4 G LE NN H. BROWN, ESQUIRE 5 OF FI CE OF THE REGIONAL COUNSEL 6 F ED ERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 7 2 2 WEST SEVENTH AVENUE 8 S UI TE 14 9 A NC HORAGE, ALASKA 99513 10 T EL EPHONE: 907.271.5271 11 F AC SIMILE: 907.271.2800 12 E -M AIL: GLENN.BROWN@FAA.GOV 13 14 ON B EHALF OF THE RESPONDENT, 15 EX TR EME ENERGY SOLUTIONS, INCORPORATED: 16 S AM UEL K. BURLUM, PRESIDENT/CEO, 17 PR O SE 18 E XT REME ENERGY SOLUTIONS, INC. 19 1 50 MAIN STREET 20 O GD ENBURG, NEW JERSEY 07439 21 T EL EPHONE: 973.209.3450 22 F AC SIMILE: 973.209.4796 23 E -M AIL: EES.OFFICE@YAHOO.COM 24 25Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 3

1 TE LECONFERENCE HEARING 2 T UE SDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2015 3 1 :3 4 P.M. 4 TH E COURT: G ood afternoon, this is Judge 5 S ul livan, do I have Mr. Glenn H. Brown on the line? 6 MR . BROWN: Y ou do. Yes, ma'am. 7 TH E COURT: O kay, and a Mr. Samuel K. 8 B ur lum? 9 MR . BROWN: C orrect. I am here, Your Honor. 10 TH E COURT: I 'm sorry, I can hardly hear you 11 s ir , could you speak up? 12 MR . BROWN: I am here, Your Honor. 13 TH E COURT: O kay, thank you. And I should 14 also have an Andrea M i kus, from County Court 15 R eporters? 16 COURT REPORTER: M i kus. Yes, Your Honor, 17 I 'm here. 18 THE COURT: Okay. Ms. M i kus, are you ready? 19 CO UR T REPORTER: I am, Your Honor. 20 TH E COURT: A ll right. We're on the record 21 i n the matter of Extreme Energy Solutions Inc. This 22 i s Docket number FAA-2015-1322. Today, is Tuesday, 23 N ov ember 17, 2015, and the parties have appeared by 24 t el ephone for a Rule 16 conference. The Federal 25 A vi ation Administration, which are here and afterExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 4

1 r eferred to by the initials the FAA, is represented by 2 i ts Attorney of record Mr. Glenn H. Brown. 3 T he Respondent, Extreme Energy Solutions 4 I nc., is represented by its lay representative Mr. 5 S amuel K. Burlum, who is the President/CEO of the 6 c ompany. He's also appearing by telephone today. 7 A ll right, good afternoon to you both. What 8 I am going to do is I am going to briefly outline just 9 t he last few items that have been filed with The 10 C ourt. Essentially on October 14, 2015, there was an 11 O rder continuing the Rule 16 Litigation Scheduling 12 c onference and deferring the Rule 26F, Jointly 13 P roposed Discovery plan. 14 I n essence, the original Rule 16 conference 15 w as scheduled for Thursday, October 15, 2015 and the 16 p arties agreed to postponed that for reasons that were 17 i dentified in the October 14, 2015 Order. 18 I n addition, on October 19, 2015, an Order 19 r eserving the Respondent's Motion for a stay of 20 p roceeding and granted/denying other release was filed 21 a nd basically reiterated that on, at the conference 22 d ay, we would be addressing a variety of different 23 i ssues. So why don't I start with this, I am going 24 t o explain a little bit what we are going to do today 25 a nd how much time we're going to take and then I haveExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 5

1 s ome questions for both the parties. 2 I n essence, this is the first time the 3 p arties have convene with The Court on a complaint 4 t hat was originally filed by the FAA with the Offices 5 o f Hearing on June 16, 2015. This particular 6 c omplaint, which is 8 pages long dated June 9, 2015, 7 a llege that the Respondent, Extreme Energy Solution 8 I nc., have violated a variety of different FAA 9 r egulations and there was a proposal, a civil penalty 10 i n the total of $19,400 contained in this complaint. 11 T here's been a variety of different 12 m aterials that both parties have been filing since the 13 c omplaint was served on the Respondent, leading to 14 t oday's conference. 15 W hat I am going to do is, I am going to ask 16 M r. Burlum a few questions about his expertise in 17 a ppearing as the representative in the litigation 18 p rocess. I am going to do that just to gage what 19 k inds of explanation that I should be tendering during 20 t his particular conference, which should last no more 21 t han an hour. And then I will turn to the FAA Counsel 22 a nd ask the FAA Counsel a few questions about the 23 s pecifics of the particular complaint and then I'll 24 t alk to both parties about a variety of other matters. 25 S o Mr. Burlum, starting with you, can youExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 6

1 g ive me an idea of what expertise, if any, you have in 2 r epresenting your company in a litigation. And I ask 3 n ot to cause you any discomfort, it just allows me a 4 s ense of what I should explain and what I don't need 5 t o explain. So would this be your first time 6 a ppearing as a representative for your company or do 7 y ou have other experiences during this type of 8 l itigation advocacy? 9 MR . BURLUM: So, the, I appreciate the, 10 f irst and foremost, thank you for taking a moment to 11 r ecognize those issues and areas. First and foremost, 12 I don't have, I am not an attorney, not a skilled 13 a ttorney. I have represented the company on some 14 l ocal matters regarding some zoning issues or planning 15 i n that capacity. So I am familiar with a little bit 16 o f the process, but every agency runs their venue 17 d ifferently and it's different when you are dealing 18 w ith say quasy government panel like the Town Council 19 v ersus Administrative Law. So my extent is I do have 20 s ome pro se experience. I represent the company on 21 s ome local matters, however, when it comes to state 22 a nd federal, we usually refer that to our General 23 C ounsel and unfortunate today, each General Counsel 24 h as their own area of expertise, which currently we 25 d on't have someone that can deal with this matter atExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 7

1 t his time. And so that'w shy I made the pledge to 2 a ttain counsel in looking at some of this material. 3 TH E COURT: Okay. 4 MR . BURLUM: As far as some of the... 5 TH E COURT: Let me ask you a couple more 6 q uestions then. When you refer to General Counsel, 7 w ere you talking about outside counsel? Someone you 8 w ould contract to hire on occasions as opposed to 9 s omeone you have on staff? 10 MR . BURLUM: That's correct. 11 TH E COURT: Okay. In regard to the matters 12 w here you have represented the company yourself, has 13 t hat ever been in a court of law where you're calling 14 w itnesses, preparing formal litigation documents, 15 o bjecting, making motions, those kinds of activities. 16 MR . BURLUM: It has and then, but again 17 t hat was on a very localized level, regional county 18 l evel. 19 TH E COURT: Okay. 20 MR . BURLUM: Never in a venue of state or 21 f ederal court. 22 TH E COURT: Okay. Thank you. Anything else 23 t hat you would like to tell me about your general 24 l evel of knowledge before I turn to Mr. Brown for some 25 q uestions?Page 8

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MR. B URLUM: I h ave n othing t o a dd a t t his 2 t ime. 3 TH E COURT: All right. What I'll do is, 4 I 'll just explain one process of many, before I talk 5 w ith Mr. Brown. In this particular forum, this is a 6 f airly classical litigation forum, which means that 7 i t's formal, it's requires attention to detail and it 8 i s run, the litigation is run very similarly to a 9 t rial that you might see on television. 10 W hen we schedule our trials, our hearings, 11 w e usually borrow as a visiting judge, a courtroom in 12 t he U.S. District Courthouse or in the U.S. Task 13 C ourt. People will come to that courtroom, they will 14 s it at tables in front of a traditional wooden bench 15 a nd then call witnesses who will be sworn, sit in the 16 w itness box and testify. 17 T he testimony would be taken in a very 18 t raditional manner with the plaintiff, in this case 19 t he FAA, going first with direct examination and then 20 t he Respondent, that being Extreme Energy Solutions 21 I nc., following the cross examination during 22 P laintiff's case in sheet. When the Plaintiff's rest, 23 i f the Respondent wants to put a case on, then the 24 R espondent would ask questions to its witnesses and 25 t he FAA would cross examine.Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 9

1 B oth parties would have an opportunity to 2 m ake some opening statement as well as the closing 3 s tatement at the beginning and end of the Hearing. 4 P rior to the Hearing, if a full panel play 5 o f motions practice, which the parties have started to 6 d ip their toes into already and the Motion practice is 7 t ypically done in writing with deadlines, and due 8 d ates and rules to follow. Because this is done in a 9 v ery classic litigation style, typically what you will 10 a lways see in both this conference and in any motion 11 c onference at the Hearing itself, The Court will 12 a lways address questions first to the complaining 13 p arty or the Plaintiff. 14 T he reason that's done, in part, is because 15 t he Plaintiff has the burden of proof to go forward 16 w ith the allegations at the Hearing. As a result, the 17 P laintiff is looked to throughout the whole of the 18 l itigation to go first whenever there's inquiry from 19 T he Court and it lends a reminder to the parties about 20 w ho has the burden of proof and it also provides some 21 s ense of reliability and safety to the parties to 22 a lways know when their turn will come. So it's not a 23 s tatement of preference for the Plaintiff, it's a 24 s imply is a very traditional way of handling who goes 25 f irst in any types of conference with The Court. AnyExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 10

1 q uestions about that, Mr. Burlum? 2 MR . BURLUM: Not about that, no, 3 TH E COURT: Okay. Then I am going to turn 4 n ext for the time being to the Plaintiff's Counsel, 5 M r. Brown. Mr. Brown, I wanted to ask you a couple 6 q uestions about the general case, so that I am on 7 b oard with what parties presumably know. Can you tell 8 m e, the Respondent is located, according to the record 9 i n Ogdensburg, New Jersey? The allegation asserts 10 t hat a shipment was made to Shanghai China. There's 11 n o discussion in the complaint about when the shipment 12 w as discovered, when the allegation arose about the 13 h azardous materials, but I noticed that you are 14 c urrently located in Anchorage, Alaska and I am 15 w ondering how it is that you in particular were pulled 16 i nto the case. It seemed to be more of an East Coast 17 c ase, but maybe, I am mistaken. 18 MR . BROWN: It was discovered in Anchorage 19 i s the answer. We have a sort facility. FedEx has a 20 s ort facility here and occasionally things are found 21 d uring training and various things that happens here, 22 s o it was investigated by the local hazmat folks in 23 A nchorage and referred me to initiate, which is what 24 I 've done. 25 TH E COURT: Okay, that explain that. I wasExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 11

1 j ust wondering how it was that your particular 2 r egional office was involved. So let's talk a little 3 b it about the number of violation. It's a little 4 u nclear from my reading of the complaint, whether 5 y ou're alleging 15 violations or 5 violations with a 6 v ariety of counts or a different number. Can you tell 7 m e how many violations you're actually trying to 8 p ursue? 9 MR . BROWN: Well, everyone that we list is 10 a , is in some sense of the term, an actual violation. 11 A s I assumed you're well aware Your Honor, the way we 12 c alculation sanctions, however, is based on 13 c ategories. So the fact that there's is a, basically 14 t his comes, this is what we refer to as a hidden 15 s hipment. In other words, there was no indication 16 t hat it was hazardous material, so FedEx had no reason 17 t o treat it as such. So what we've got is, in terms 18 o f a sanction, we're looking at the shipping papers, 19 t he markings, the labeling and emergency response 20 i nformation, so there's four categories, I am turning 21 t o the complainers that speaks to make sure that it's 22 r ight, yeah, the four categories of violations. Each 23 s ited regulation is a separate violation as far as, in 24 t erms of the regulations is to calculate sanctions we 25 l ook at it based on categories.Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 12

1 TH E COURT: Well, I understand that, but it 2 m akes it a bit confusing I think for The Court and 3 p erhaps for the Respondent to know just how you look 4 a t the case if you want more specific. So for 5 e xample, oftentimes what I see, is a plaintiff will 6 s ay I have five or four primary violation with a 7 v ariety of different counts attached to each violation 8 a nd, or violation number one, I am going to assign a 9 r ecommended penalty of X amount based on the violation 10 i tself and the number of counts within the violation. 11 T hat helps me look at the case in a certain way, 12 p articularly I am hearing evidence. 13 I f you are saying that you have 15 14 v iolations, but you're going to look at them 15 d ifferently for purposes of disposed penalty 16 c alculation, it would be helpful to know how you are 17 s egueing from 15 violations that independently can be 18 p roved to a calculation involving four major 19 c ategories with some of those violations grouped into 20 e ach category and that may not be discussion we need 21 t o pursue today necessarily, but I think it would be 22 h elpful for you to be aware that The Court will be 23 l ooking to you for some more specificity in the near 24 f uture about that. Does that give you a little ideas 25 a s to what The Court is looking for ultimately?Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 13

1 MR . BROWN: Yes, Your Honor it does. 2 TH E COURT: Okay. Thank you. Let's talk 3 t hen a little bit about Motions that I've seen and 4 w here the parties are about that. As we all know, the 5 F AA filed a Motion for a Decision. That filing 6 o ccurred on September 3, 2015 with the Office of 7 H earing and then the Respondent filed on October 19, 8 2 015, some materials which also included a Motion to 9 P ostpone or to stay the proceedings until January, 10 2 016. So Mr. Burlum, I am going to talk to you a 11 l ittle bit about that first. You had indicated that 12 y ou were looking to get an attorney to help you in 13 t hese particular proceedings and that you had a 14 p ersonal family litigation matter that was distracting 15 y ou from using your full attention to this particular 16 c ase. Can you tell us, just briefly, what's the 17 s tatus is of your family litigation at this point? 18 A re you scheduled for a trial in the matter? As it 19 b een resolved? Is it looking at prolonged litigation? 20 C an you tell us a little bit where you land right now 21 i n that? 22 MR . BURLUM: Okay, so the family matter 23 h as taken precedent that's actually been ongoing for 24 a bout a year. It was a very aggressive matter. I was 25 f orced to take a lot of time off of work to addressExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 14

1 i t, which put my job in jeopardy in a matter of so 2 m any words, if I didn't try to get the Court to 3 a ccommodate a viable schedule that wouldn't put my job 4 i n jeopardy, I would be asked to step down, so that 5 w as a major issue. We've gone through a series of 6 M otions, a series of Hearings. There is one more 7 h earing scheduled for December 2nd. There's been 8 D iscovery process filed and it is going to trial looks 9 l ike. It's going to be, it was a number of experts 10 h ired by both sides, very adversarial situation and is 11 v ery unfortunate because the children in the matter 12 s eemed to suffer the most in that type of situation, 13 w hich is not my preference. So unfortunately, that 14 m atter is kind of taking precedence in my life with 15 r egards of my personal resources and time and with the 16 h oliday coming, is still going to be taking up much of 17 m y free time and even some of my work time. So there 18 i s a trial, will know the trial date here in the next 19 f ew weeks, which is tentatively scheduled throughout 20 D ecember and being heard after the holiday, so that's 21 w hy I asked for the time to push this off because I 22 c an only take so much time off from work to deal with 23 t hese kind of matters. 24 TH E COURT: Okay. Let me ask you couple 25 m ore questions about that. It appears from what youExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 15

1 s aid, that one of the primary issue involved in the 2 t rial is the future of the minor children that are 3 s till within the family structure. How many children 4 a re we talking about? 5 MR . BURLUM: Just one. 6 TH E COURT: And what's the age of that 7 c hild? 8 MR . BURLUM: The child will be three in 9 F ebruary. 10 TH E COURT: Okay, okay. And then you had 11 i ndicated that you have a Hearing on December 2, 2015, 12 w hat type of Hearing is that? 13 MR . BURLUM: That is a pre-trial Hearing 14 t o review the Discoveries and the remaining scope of 15 D iscovery. Seeing how far we are in the process so 16 t hat a final trial date can happen. The Court really 17 i s trying to push this along since it is taken a year 18 t o even get to that. 19 TH E COURT: Okay. Currently you have 20 c ounsel for this particularly litigation? 21 MR . BURLUM: I do. 22 TH E COURT: Okay. And then in terms of your 23 r esponsibility at work, which is at Extreme Energy 24 S olutions, Inc., is this a company where you are 25 m anaging matters day to day? Do you have a largePage 16 Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 1 staff or small staff? Can you give us a sense of 2 that? 3 MR . BURLUM: So our company originally had 4 2 4 staffers here when we launched. The staff has been 5 c ut in half due to some other unrelated matters to 6 t his and some of the family matter, it affect the 7 c ompany. I was forced to let go of some of my 8 m anagement leadership so I am, I've had to take on 9 m ore of a day to day role, plus I do have an extensive 10 t ravel schedule since some of the relationships that I 11 d eal with for the company are abroad, and so the 12 t ravel schedule and my day to day, you know, when I, 13 w e're at the mercy and liberty of the clients. It's 14 n ot like I can put their lives on hold, so those 15 t hings do impact my schedule here. So, you know, I am 16 d ealing with 80 hours of work that should be spread 17 a mongst two or three people and the core leadership 18 a nd management is really just myself and executive 19 a ssistant. The rest of the staff are really field 20 p eople and technicians, so there's not a whole lot of 21 f olks that I can rely on to pass off these duties to 22 a t this time. 23 TH E COURT: Okay. Thank you. Okay, well 24 l et's talk about, and I am going to stay with you for 25 t he moment, Mr. Burlum. With the FAA's Motion for aExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 17

1 D ecision. Essentially, the FAA is asserting in a 2 S eptember 11, 2015 Motion, that you were served with 3 t he complaint, which is dated June 9, 2015, and that 4 i t was received by you no later than June 19, 2015. 5 A nd in this September 11, 2015 Motion, It says you 6 n ever responded to the complaint, which brings up a 7 p articular problem and challenge for you because 8 t here's a 30 day window, according to the regulation, 9 t o respond. Now, I know that you have requested 10 b asically a stay of proceedings until January on 11 e verything, but I want to ask you is it possible if 12 y ou can consider that you might, if there's a 13 p ossibility if you could answer the Motion before 14 t hat. What's your taught about that? 15 MR . BURLUM: Motion, the date on that 16 M otion again. I am' sorry, I am taking a lot of 17 n otes. 18 TH E COURT: The FAA filed a Motion for a 19 D ecision on the case. This is a motion for the 20 a llegations submitted and for decision regarding 21 v iolations that was filed with the Court on September 22 1 1, 2015. And the motion escued that you basically 23 h ave abandoned the case cause you didn't file an 24 a nswer. Does this motion rang a bell for you at all? 25 MR . BURLUM: I am trying to look at allExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 18

1 t hat I have here. Hold on one moment, please. I have 2 t he Motion in front of me. September 10, yes, I can 3 t ake some time to answer that. 4 TH E COURT: What I am going to do is this. 5 I think what would work best and then I will ask both 6 p arties what they think about this idea. But it seems 7 t o me that it would work best for the parties if I 8 g ave you Mr. Burlum a due date to file a response to 9 t he Motion and a due date to file an answer to the 10 c omplaint, and I can also give a deadline or due date 11 f or the FAA then to file a reply any materials that 12 y ou file. Where they get that material, I can make a 13 r uling on this particular motion before I addressed 14 a ny of the other matters which could include, but may 15 n ot, setting the matter for litigation and discovery. 16 I f we did that, we're looking at taking just a piece 17 o f this case and addressing it between now and January 18 a nd leaving all the rest until after I make a ruling 19 o n the Motion. 20 I n order for you, Mr. Burlum, to succeed in 21 d efending against this particular Motion, you must 22 p rovide, if you can, some reasons that explain why you 23 d id not file an answer in writing to the complaint 24 w ithin 30 days of your receipt. And those answers, 25 t hose reasons can be whatever you believe would beExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 19

1 r easonable ground that would explain your non2 r esponsiveness. 3 E very person's explanation is different. 4 Y ou obviously have given us a variety different facts 5 j ust orally today that you may or may not want to 6 i nclude in your response. It's up to me then to make 7 a decision after I hear from both sides as to whether 8 o r not you have presented enough material for me to 9 m ake a finding that you had good reasons not to 10 r espond right away. The FAA administrator prefers the 11 c ases be heard on a merits, but also wants people to, 12 p arty to appear before the Court to abide by the rules 13 a nd regulations, so it's a balancing task. When you 14 f ile your response and your answer, you want to make 15 s ure that you file them with everybody, that means the 16 H earing docket gets your original copy cause they're 17 t he keeper of the record and the FAA gets a copy and 18 y ou obviously sends one to me so that I can see it 19 t oo. 20 That particular process and the Court's 21 r uling on that material, will probably puts us into 22 J anuary, 2016. So I am going to ask you Mr. Burlum 23 f irst if that looks like a reasonable approach to this 24 p articular litigation for you and if not, tell me what 25 w ould work better for you.Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 20

1 MR . BURLUM: No, that sounds reasonable, 2 b ut I do have a few other questions. 3 TH E COURT: Okay. Well, why don't I turn to 4 M r. Brown first just to get his opinion about this and 5 t hen I can come back to you about the inquiry you want 6 t o make. Mr. Brown, turning to you and your client, 7 w ould that be a reasonable approach in your opinion at 8 t his point? 9 MR . BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. 10 MR . BURLUM: Okay. Then I will turn back 11 t o you Mr. Burlum, ask away. What questions would you 12 l ike to ask? 13 MR . BURLUM: Well, getting a better 14 u nderstanding of the matter and the actual venue. 15 U nder which rule of law are you working under? Is it 16 b eyond reasonable doubts or is it a preponderance of 17 e vidence? 18 TH E COURT: Well, the case as a whole, must 19 b e proven by the FAA by a preponderance of the 20 e vidence standard. So we're not reaching the merits 21 o f any fact, alleged today or even in the near future. 22 W hat I am going to be looking at is whether 23 o r not you have presented facts to support good cause 24 f or failing to respond promptly to the complaint and 25 t hat's a subjective call by The Court. You may wantExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 21

1 t o Google different decisions that The Court has 2 a lready issued on this matter. All of our decisions, 3 m ine included, are posted on both West Law and Lexus 4 N exus and they're posted on regulations dot gov. And 5 t he good cause standard is fairly broad, if I can give 6 y ou some different case law right now. If you give me 7 a moment of silence, I'll see if I can pull something 8 u p. 9 MR . BURLUM: Okay. 10 TH E COURT: We just had our computers 11 c hanged out and now, I can't seem to get into my 12 p rimary. I am working my way through a variety of 13 d ifferent Orders. I am very sorry about this. I had 14 m y whole computer changed out yesterday, and so it's 15 n ot responding to my request for information like it 16 n ormally does. What I can do is I can put in my Order 17 s ome case citations for both of you that talk about, 18 a nd those cases, you could pull up and read and they 19 t alk about the Good Cause standard, if that would 20 w ork. 21 MR . BURLUM: Yes. 22 TH E COURT: I'll do that for you both. Next 23 q uestion Mr. Burlum, next question. 24 MR . BURLUM: As far as, with the 25 p roceeding of the Court, this is, and the actualExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 22

1 l itigation would be considered bench trial, 2 a dministrative law, is that correct? 3 TH E COURT: Right. That's exactly what you 4 w ould be looking at. There is no jury in these case 5 a t all. Any other questions? 6 MR . BURLUM: Nope. 7 TH E COURT: Okay. Then let's talk about 8 d eadlines for both of you and I am going to be looking 9 a t my calendar. I know that next week is 10 T hanksgiving, so let's look at early December. Mr. 11 B urlum, since the burden is upon you first to file a 12 r esponse and an answer, let's look at your calendar. 13 W ould you be able to file that in writing by December 14 9 , 2015? 15 MR . BURLUM: The 15 would work better for 16 m e cause I would still have family court by then. 17 TH E COURT: Okay. Mr. Brown, if we give Mr. 18 B urlum the December 15, 2015, to file a response and 19 a nswer. Looking at your calendar and knowing your 20 h oliday schedule, do you want to schedule something 21 f or response the last week of December or sometime 22 e arly January? 23 MR . BROWN: Let's go with early January just 24 t o make sure. 25 TH E COURT: Okay. And can you suggestExtreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 23

1 s omething to me that's reasonable in your opinion? 2 MR . BROWN: About January the 5th? 3 TH E COURT: January the 5th is it. And that 4 w ill be for the FAA's reply. And folks, what I will 5 d o is I will put this on my calendar so that I'll be 6 l ooking at those materials shortly after January 5, 7 2 016. Just to let you know, I am taking some vacation 8 t hat week, so it won't be on January 5th, but I will 9 g et to it within a short period of time after that. 10 A nd we will not be addressing anything else until 11 a fter I make a ruling on the Motion that the FAA has 12 f iled. If the FAA prevail on its Motion, then I will 13 p ut in the Order information about how you, Mr. 14 B urlum, could appeal my decision if I grant, if I 15 d ecided against you. If the FAA loses its Motion, 16 t hen I will be putting in my Order information about 17 w hen the parties will convene in front of me again and 18 w hat to do prior to that. So you'll get some 19 g uidance, either way and we can go forward one way or 20 t he other once I make a decision on the Motion. So 21 s tarting with you Mr. Brown, is there anything else we 22 n eed to address to your client today? 23 MR . BROWN: No, Your Honor. 24 TH E COURT: Okay, and Mr. Burlum, on behalf 25 o f your client, Extreme Energy Solution, Inc.,Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 24

1 a nything else we can address for it today? 2 MR . BURLUM: Not at this time, thank you. 3 TH E COURT: Okay. Then I will thank you 4 b oth for your presence today and for your work with 5 T he Court. I will be issuing a written Order 6 q ualifying the December 15, 2015 deadline for the 7 R espondent and the January 5, 2016 deadline for the 8 F AA's reply. I'll also put in that Order some cases 9 t hat should, both parties could look up to see what 10 T he Court has done in the past regarding similar cases 11 t hat have Good Cause issues. With that, I am going to 12 t hank you both. I wish everybody on the phone a happy 13 T hanksgiving. We can go off the record and I wish you 14 a good day. Thank you. 15 MR . BROWN: Thank you, Your Honor. 16 TH E COURT: Bye, bye. 17 (W HEREUPON, the teleconference concluded at 02:16 18 P. M.) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25Extreme Energy Solutions November 17, 2015 VR # 2812-2 Page 25

1 S TIPULATION 2 3 T he foregoing matter was taken on the date, and at 4 t he time and place set out on the title page hereof. 5 6 I t was requested that the matter be taken by the 7 r eporter and that the same be reduced to typewritten 8 f orm. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 251 2 3 4

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