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PROTECTING THE HOMELAND AGAINST MUMBAISTYLE ATTACKS AND THE THREAT FROM 

LASHKAR-E-TAIBA 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

COUNTERTERRORISM 

AND INTELLIGENCE 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

JUNE 12, 2013 

Serial No. 113–21 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/ 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas, Chairman 

LAMAR SMITH, Texas 

PETER T. KING, New York 

MIKE ROGERS, Alabama 

PAUL C. BROUN, Georgia 

CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan, Vice Chair 

PATRICK MEEHAN, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah 

STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi 

LOU BARLETTA, Pennsylvania 

CHRIS STEWART, Utah 

RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina 

STEVE DAINES, Montana 

SUSAN W. BROOKS, Indiana 

SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania 

MARK SANFORD, South Carolina 

BENNIE G. THOMPSON, Mississippi 

LORETTA SANCHEZ, California 

SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas 

YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

CEDRIC L. RICHMOND, Louisiana 

WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts 

RON BARBER, Arizona 

DONDALD M. PAYNE, JR., New Jersey 

BETO O’ROURKE, Texas 

TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii 

FILEMON VELA, Texas 

STEVEN A. HORSFORD, Nevada 

ERIC SWALWELL, California 

GREG HILL, Chief of Staff 

MICHAEL GEFFROY, Deputy Chief of Staff/Chief Counsel 

MICHAEL S. TWINCHEK, Chief Clerk 

I. LANIER AVANT, Minority Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COUNTERTERRORISM AND INTELLIGENCE 

PETER T. KING, New York, Chairman 

PAUL C. BROUN, Georgia 

PATRICK MEEHAN, Pennsylvania 

JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah 

CHRIS STEWART, Utah 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas (ex officio) 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

LORETTA SANCHEZ, California 

WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts 

BENNIE G. THOMPSON, Mississippi (ex officio) 

KERRY ANN WATKINS, Subcommittee Staff Director 

DENNIS TERRY, Subcommittee Clerk 

HOPE GOINS, Minority Staff Director 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

STATEMENTS

The Honorable Peter T. King, a Representative in Congress From the State 

of New York, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence ................................................................................................................... 1 

The Honorable Brian Higgins, a Representative in Congress From the State 

of New York, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Counterterrorism 

and Intelligence: 

Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 4 

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 5 

The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress From 

the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on Homeland 

Security: 

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 6 

WITNESSES

Mr. Joseph W. Pfeifer, Chief of Counterterrorism and Emergency Preparedness, Fire Department of New York: 

Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 10 

Ms. C. Christine Fair, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, Georgetown University: 

Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 13 

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 17 

Mr. Stephen Tankel, Ph.D., Assistant Professor, American University: 

Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 25 

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 28 

Mr. Jonah Blank, Ph.D., Senior Political Analyst, The Rand Corporation: 

Oral Statement ..................................................................................................... 38 

Prepared Statement ............................................................................................. 40 

APPENDIX

Statement of Brian Michael Jenkins, Senior Advisor to the RAND President, 

The RAND Corporation ....................................................................................... 59 

(1) 

PROTECTING THE HOMELAND AGAINST 

MUMBAI-STYLE ATTACKS AND THE THREAT 

FROM LASHKAR-E-TAIBA 

Wednesday, June 12, 2013 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COUNTERTERRORISM AND INTELLIGENCE, 

Washington, DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:13 a.m., in Room 

311, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Peter T. King [Chairman 

of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives King, Higgens, and Keating. 

Mr. KING. Good morning. The Committee on Homeland Security 

Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence will come to 

order. 

The subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony examining 

a threat to the homeland from Mumbai-style attacks and LeT, an 

Islamist terrorist organization. 

I now recognize myself for an opening statement. 

On the onset, let me express my apologies for being late. I just 

came from a debate in the Capitol we had on the whole NSA issue, 

which I am sure you have been following in the media, and that 

ran over. 

But I want to thank all of you being here today. This is an issue 

of significant importance. 

I want to thank the Ranking Member for changing his schedule 

to be here and I truly appreciate that and, also, Mr. Keating, who 

comes from Massachusetts, and who personally saw the terrible impact of the Boston Marathon bombings. 

So any hearing we have dealing with threats against the homeland is extremely significant and the testimony of all of you, as experts, is very important today. 

Today, as I mentioned, we are talking about the Pakistani-based 

jihadi group known for its 2008 terror attack in Mumbai, Lashkare-Taiba or LeT. 

We will examine their capability and intent to attack our homeland and what measures, for instance, the FDNY, the New York 

City Fire Department, is taking, the other first responders are taking to prepare for attacks which use fire as a weapon. 

In light of recent news, I will begin by noting that the man who 

scouted targets for the Mumbai attack, which killed 166 people including six Americans, and planned a later attack which sought to 

behead a Danish journalist, was an American, David Headley. 
2 

The DNI, Director of National Intelligence General Clapper, has 

revealed that Headley’s terror ties were discovered through the 

same National Security Agency programs that have come under 

criticism in past days. 

I don’t want to turn this hearing into a debate on that, but I 

would just ask people on both sides—both sides of the aisle, especially my own side of the aisle in Congress, that before they rush 

out and make rash judgments to realize how essential this program 

is, how basically it has been used under both administrations. The 

very significant court jurisdiction there is to ensure that they— 

court oversight there is to ensure the Constitution is complied with. 

Let’s not rush to name Edward Snowden as any kind of a whistle-blower or hero. I think he should be extradited, indicted, and 

convicted. 

Now, returning to our original subject, LeT is designated and 

sanctioned by our Departments of State and Treasury as a terror 

organization. 

LeT is also a proxy of Pakistani Intelligence. I think it is important to note that LeT is a terror proxy of Pakistan’s Inter-Services 

Intelligence, its ISI, which provides LeT with a safe haven and 

funding to train and prepare for terrorist attacks. 

While focused on Pakistan’s dispute over Kashmir, an issue over 

which it regularly kills innocent Indian civilians, LeT’s reach is 

broad and goes abroad. 

In addition to the 2009 plot in Denmark, LeT supported a 

planned 2002 attack in Australia by means of a trainer sent from 

France. LeT’s networks span across South Asia and the Persian 

Gulf into Europe, especially Britain, as well as Canada and New 

Zealand. 

LeT actively recruits Westerners, maintains social media sites in 

colloquial American English and has, since the 1990s, sustained 

support cells here in the United States. 

LeT members were arrested in the homeland as recently as 2011 

when Jubair Ahmad was arrested in Woodbridge, Virginia. Eleven 

LeT members previously had been arrested in Virginia back in 

2003. 

Suspected LeT operatives are reported to have surveilled several 

identified potential terror targets in this country. LeT practices 

good communication security and is proficient at surveillance skills 

making it a difficult target for our intelligence collection efforts, 

which should be immediately increased on this target. 

LeT maintains ties with al-Qaeda. They fight together against us 

in the Afghan provinces of Ghazni, Kunar, and Nuristan. LeT terrorists earlier fought our forces in Iraq. 

When our special operators raided Osama bin-Laden’s compound 

in Abbottabad, they reportedly recovered correspondence between 

the late al-Qaeda leader and the LeT leader, Hafez Saeed. 

Now, I certainly work with other Members on the intelligence 

committee, I believe there is much to be done to declassify as many 

of the documents recovered in Pakistan on May 2, 2011, which 

could well amplify the relationship with LeT. That is an on-going 

process. I think it should be done sooner rather than later. 

Given that LeT has killed American civilians in India, fights U.S. 

soldiers in Afghanistan and is operationally active in this country, 
3 

we must consider the possibility of a future LeT strike in the homeland. 

I look forward to evaluating that risk with Professors Fair and 

Tankel, America’s leading academic experts on LeT. 

I also think we should make it clear to Pakistan that any LeT 

attack upon our homeland, they will bear a responsibility for that 

because of their close relationship between ISI and LeT. 

Now, God forbid a Mumbai-style attack were to occur here at 

home. Our first responders would face multiple attackers in different locations. 

These terrorists may be exploding bombs, conducting assassinations, barricading buildings, seizing hostages, and lighting those occupied buildings on fire concurrently and over a period of days. 

Without prior coordination, planning, practice, and resourcing, 

State and local officials will face stark dilemmas. Governors may 

have to choose between sending unarmed firemen to face active 

shooters or sending police SWAT teams into fully-burning buildings. 

Mumbai is perhaps the most notorious use of fire as a terror 

weapon. This tactic was also used in Benghazi on September 11 of 

this year. U.S. embassies in Yugoslavia, Honduras, and Islamabad 

were also burned in 2008, 1988, and 1979. 

Luckily for our country, and I have a bit of a parochial pride 

here, I believe the Nation’s best service—fire service—and I am 

sure Mr. Keating and Mr. Higgins will—may voice some comment 

to that, the FDNY is leading the way on preparing such a situation. The FDNY works with the FBI, U.S. Special Operations Command, the Department of State and foreign partners to devise and 

rehearse best practices to respond to a Mumbai-style attack. 

We are eager to learn about these efforts. I look forward to Chief 

Pfeifer’s testimony. I encourage the first responders to learn about 

and consider copying these techniques and procedures. I look forward to the testimony of all the witnesses. 

[The information follows:] 
4 

Mr. KING. Now it is my privilege to recognize the Ranking Member of the subcommittee, who I emphasized changed his schedule 

to be here today, the gentleman from New York, Mr. Higgins. 

Mr. HIGGINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I would like to thank Chairman Peter King for holding this hearing today. I would also like to thank the witnesses for their testimony. 

In November 2008, the terror group LeT conducted a Fedayeenstyle attack in Mumbai. For over 60 hours, terrorists armed with 

firearms and explosives attacked multiple targets across Mumbai 

killing more than 170 people. 

Lashkar-e-Taiba is recognized by the United States Government 

as a foreign terrorist organization. Given that there have been 

Americans that have cooperated with Lashkar-e-Taiba, the group’s 

connection with al-Qaeda, I agree that a threat from that group be 

examined and evaluated. 

I also agree that we should examine and evaluate Fedayeen-style 

attacks. We should look into whether or not groups other than 

Lashkar-e-Taiba are planning these types of attacks. 

There is evidence that al-Qaeda has sought to replicate this tactic in the West. We know that al-Qaeda seeks to recruit Americans 

for their plotting and execution of terrorist attacks. 

We also know that Hezbollah has a presence in North America. 

Do these groups have a capability to execute a Fedayeen-style attack? 

When we look at these kinds of attacks, we need to also see that 

our first responders in New York City and throughout urban areas 

throughout the Nation are able to respond to them in the event 

that these attacks occur. 

Do they have the resources to respond? Do they have the access 

to intelligence that they need to know that a potential terrorist plot 

is being planned? Unfortunately, not all jurisdictions are as prepared as they can be. 
5 

In the Buffalo-Niagara region, there are high-impact targets. 

Buffalo is home to the Peace Bridge, one of the busiest Northern 

Border crossings between the United States and Canada. Over $30 billion of annual commerce travels through the Peace 

Bridge in the Buffalo-Niagara region. A Fedayeen-style attack in 

this area could be catastrophic to critical infrastructure. 

Even though we know this area is home to a high-impact target—targets, this area is considered—not considered high-risk 

enough for State and local officials to receive the funding they need 

under the Urban Area Security Initiative program. 

Without this critical funding, local law enforcement emergency 

personnel do not have the ability to sustain the advancements they 

have made since 9/11. 

How can they be expected to protect the area in the event of a 

sophisticated attack such as the Fedayeen if they do not have the 

proper equipment or capabilities? 

Furthermore, local law enforcement—and the Federal Government still need improvement with information sharing. 

Earlier this year, a terrorist plot was thwarted by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Had this plot been successful, it could have 

caused grave disaster in Western New York. 

Unfortunately, the intelligence about this plot was not shared 

with local law enforcement officials in advance of an arrest of the 

alleged terrorist. 

How can first responders be first preventers if they don’t have 

the critical information and resources? 

We ask a lot of our first responders. They are the ones that know 

the area best. They know people and places in their area better 

than anyone else. They should have the resources to keep us protected from terrorist attacks. 

I thank the Chairman. I look forward to the testimony of our witnesses. 

[The statement of Ranking Member Higgins follows:] 

STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER BRIAN HIGGINS

JUNE 12, 2013 

In November 2008, the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba conducted a Fedayeenstyle attack in Mumbai. For over 60 hours, terrorists armed with firearms and explosives attacked multiple targets across Mumbai, killing more than 170 people. 

Lashkar-e-Taiba is recognized by the U.S. Government as a foreign terrorist organization. Given that there have been Americans that have cooperated with Lashkare-Taiba and the groups’ connection with al-Qaeda, I agree that a threat from that 

group be examined and evaluated. 

I also agree that we should examine and evaluate Fedayeen-style attacks. We 

should look in to whether or not groups other than LeT are planning these types 

of attacks. There has been evidence that al-Qaeda has sought to replicate this tactic 

in the West. We know that al-Qaeda seeks to recruit Americans for their plotting 

and execution of terrorist attacks. We also know that Hezbollah has a presence in 

North America. Do these groups have a capability to execute a Fedayeen-style attack? 

When we look at these kind of attacks, we need to also see how our first responders are able to respond to them in the event that they occur. Do they have the resources to respond? Do they have access to the intelligence that they need to know 

that a potential terrorist is planning an attack? Unfortunately, not all jurisdictions 

are prepared nor can they be. 

In the Buffalo/Niagara region there are high-impact targets. Buffalo is home to 

the Peace Bridge, one of the busiest crossings at the Northern Border. Over $30 billion of annual commerce travels through the Peace Bridge in Buffalo/Niagara re-
6 

gion. A Fedayeen-style attack in this area could be catastrophic to its critical infrastructure. 

Even though we know this area is home to high-impact targets, this area is not 

considered ‘‘high-risk’’ enough for State and locals in this area to receive funding 

under the Urban Area Security Initiative ‘‘UASI’’ program. Without UASI funding, 

the local law enforcement and emergency personnel do not have the ability to sustain the advancements they have made since 9/11. How can they be expected to protect the area in the event of a sophisticated attack such as a Fedayeen, if they don’t 

have the proper equipment or interoperability capabilities? Furthermore, the local 

law enforcement and the Federal Government still need improvement with information sharing. 

Earlier this year, there was a terrorist plot thwarted by the Royal Canadian 

Mounted Police. Had this plot been successful, it could have caused grave disaster 

to Western New York. Unfortunately, the intelligence about this plot was not shared 

with the local sheriff in advance of the arrest of the alleged terrorists. 

How can first responders be first preventers if they do not have critical resources 

and information? We ask a lot of our first responders. They are the ones that know 

the area the best. They know the people and the places in their areas better than 

anyone. We should trust them and entrust them with the resources they need. 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Ranking Member Higgins. 

I would advise other Members of the committee that opening 

statements may be submitted for the record. 

[The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:] 

STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER BENNIE G. THOMPSON

For more than 60 hours in November 2008, the world watched as Mumbai—India’s entertainment and financial capital—was terrorized by attacks on hotels, hospitals, the main railway station, and other public places. By the time the siege was 

over, 10 terrorists had killed more than 160 people using automatic weapons and 

explosives. 

This attack was planned and executed by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistani terrorist 

organization. The style of attack, the weapons and technology used, and the diversity of the targets raised new questions for how we should approach counterterrorism and security measures here at home—at all levels of government and in the 

private sector. 

It has become clear that the type of attack carried out in Mumbai—a ‘‘Fedayeen’’- 

style attack, where small groups engage in combat operations, as distinguished from 

suicide bombings—poses a challenge to our soft targets and our law enforcement 

community. 

As such, it is critical that we study this style of attack, evaluate how well DHS 

engages private-sector partners in efforts to secure against such attacks, and review 

how the private sector acts on shared information. 

By examining DHS’ outreach to the private sector during and in the aftermath 

of these attacks, we can determine whether it provided stakeholders, such as hotels, 

with actionable information about the threat situation, the groups involved, and 

mitigation measures to be implemented. It is also critical that we examine whether 

the State and local jurisdictions are adequately prepared to respond to a Fedayeenstyle attack. 

Support from the Homeland Security Grant Program has been critical to the development core capabilities necessary to help State and local governments and first 

responders prepare for and respond to terrorist attacks and natural disasters. In recent months, communities across America have seen investments in these important 

grant programs pay off. From Hurricane Sandy to the response following the Boston 

Marathon bombings, investments in planning and exercises, interoperable emergency communications capabilities, medical surge capacity, and other capabilities 

saved lives and mitigated the damage those disasters inflicted. 

Unfortunately, the funding for the Homeland Security Grant Program has been 

reduced significantly under Republican leadership of the House. Without this important Federal support, State and local governments, which are already struggling to 

stretch their budgets, may not be able to maintain the capabilities, training, planning, and expertise developed over the past decade. 

Finally, we must consider the cost of terrorism. In response to the events of September 11, Congress enacted the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act of 2002. That measure increased the availability of terrorism risk insurance to at-risk American businesses by guaranteeing that the Government would share some of the losses with 

private insurers should a terrorist attack occur. That act is set to sunset in 2014. 
7 

I have introduced a bill that would extend these provisions, but would add some 

needed improvements. I urge my colleagues on this committee to co-sponsor this bill. 

The 2008 Mumbai attack showed the vulnerability and the economic devastation 

a Fedayeen-style attack could have on businesses. We must recognize that small 

businesses and others that suffer an economic loss due to a terrorist act should not 

have to shoulder that burden alone and should not have to rely on the kindness of 

charity. 

Mr. KING. We are very pleased today to have a distinguished 

panel of witnesses before us on what I believe to be a very vital 

topic. 

We have Chief Joseph Pfeifer who is the chief of counterterrorism and emergency preparedness for the Fire Department of 

New York; Dr. Christine Fair, assistant professor at Georgetown 

University; Dr. Stephen Tankel, assistant professor at American 

University; and Mr. Jonah Blank, a senior political analyst for the 

RAND Corporation. 

Our first witness will be Chief Pfeifer, who is the FDNY, as I 

said, chief of counterterrorism and emergency preparedness, as 

well as the city-wide command chief who is responsible for commanding responses for major incidents. 

Chief Pfeifer was the first chief of the World Trade Center attack 

in 2001, and he survived the collapse of the towers. Unfortunately, 

his brother did not. Since the attack on the World Trade Center, 

Chief Pfeifer has assessed FDNY’s response capabilities, identified 

policy priorities, helped overhaul management practices, and developed the FDNY’s first strategic plan, and terrorism preparedness 

strategy. 

Chief Pfeifer founded and directs the FDNY Center for Terrorism 

and Disaster Preparedness, and I am proud to call him a friend. 

I recognize Chief Pfeifer for 5 minutes. Joe. 

STATEMENT OF JOSEPH W. PFEIFER, CHIEF OF COUNTERTERRORISM AND EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS, FIRE DEPARTMENT OF NEW YORK 

Chief PFEIFER. Good morning, Chairman King, Ranking Member 

Higgins, and other distinguished Members of the Subcommittee of 

Counterterrorism and Intelligence. 

My name is Joseph Pfeifer. I am the chief of counterterrorism 

and emergency preparedness for the New York City Fire Department. Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you today about 

FDNY’s concern and initiatives related to the use of fire as a weapon by those who are determined to bring harm to the United 

States. 

The devastating 2008 attack on Mumbai represents a gamechanger. Over 3 days, a city of nearly 14 million people were held 

hostage with 166 people that were murdered in multiple locations, 

introducing a new model for terrorist attacks. 

The salient features of a Mumbai-style attack includes multiple 

terrorists, multiple targets, and multiple modes of attacks deployed 

over a prolonged period to amplify media attention. Despite all the 

violence, the most iconic images from that day remains those of the 

Taj Mahal on fire. The pictures of people at the window of the hotel 

trying to escape the flames are reminiscent of 9/11. 

Despite the striking images from that major attack, the interest 

in using fire as either as strategic or tactical weapon has not been 
8 

well understood, and largely ignored to date. Yet, it is a weapon 

that could significantly alter the dynamics of a terrorist attack. 

My testimony will focus on two areas: First, understanding terrorist use of fire as a weapon; and second, explaining the steps we 

have taken to respond to a Mumbai-style attack. 

Brian Jenkins, a leading expert in terrorism, noted—notably 

stated that terrorist attacks are often carefully choreographed to 

attract attention of the electronic media and the international 

press, ‘‘Terrorism is theater.’’ 

Directing the Mumbai attacks on Pakistan, the mastermind 

asked the terrorists, ‘‘Are you setting the fire or not?’’ 

He understood the value of fire as a strategic weapon to capture 

the attention of television, and that the world would watch. He also 

created a tactical obstacle between the rescuers, and the terrorists, 

and the hostages. 

The effects of fire, whether intentional or a by-product of an attack, can slow or even stop the effects of law enforcement and first 

responders to rescue those that are injured, to mitigate the attack, 

and kill or capture the terrorist. 

In Benghazi, it was not the bullets or the explosives that killed 

U.S. Ambassador Stevens and Sean Smith. Instead, it was the fire 

and smoke from an arson fire deliberately set during the attacks. 

As they attempted to escape an untenable atmosphere, they were 

overcome with blinding and choking smoke. 

Similar to 9/11 in Mumbai, the world was left with another 

image of a building ablaze during a terrorist attack. Following this 

incident, similar arson attacks took place against the U.N. Multinational Force in the Sinai Peninsula, as well as the U.S. embassy 

in Tunis. 

Historically, fire also has been a weapon frequently mentioned by 

al-Qaeda as a way to conduct simple attacks in the West. They 

have plotted to drive a gasoline truck into the lobby of a high-rise 

building, cut and ignite natural gas pipes in apartment buildings, 

and set forest fires. One terrorist publication went so far as to provide a tutorial on setting wildland fires. 

Of particular concern are fires in transportation systems, as seen 

in the February 2007 attack on a train in India, which killed 68 

people. What we are learning from these events is that groups or 

individuals do not need a great deal of training to conduct significant terrorist attacks. 

This became dramatically clear with the horrific attacks on the 

Boston Marathon. Fire presents a qualitatively different type of 

weapon when used in conjunction with other means of attacks. Fire 

and its associated smoke can prove disorientating to responders, inhibit police from gaining access to the target, and create structural 

dangers, and can greatly increase the number of casualties. 

These factors present complex challenges to counterterrorism operations. To address these complex challenges, the FDNY has reaffirmed this relationship with established partners like NYPD, 

and has forged new partnerships to develop effective techniques, 

tactics, and procedures. 

Four unique partnerships are worth mentioning. FDNY is working with the FBI, New York SWAT Team, to develop procedures of 

joint tactical teams, teams that are comprised of fire personnel, se-
9 

curity forces operating together in an environment with armed terrorists, fire and smoke, and mass casualties. 

Discussions, tabletop exercises have led to two full-scale exercises 

that validated the concept of joint operations and tactics. The insights gained with the FBI culminated in the inter-agency tactical 

response model released in June 2012. 

In May of last year, FDNY began collaborating with the United 

States Military Special Operation Forces that specialized in rapid 

solutions to current and anticipated problems on the battlefield. 

Not only did this partnership result in a study of tactics and a 

likely outcome of a Mumbai-style attack, but it also provided tactics. It also provided our Nation’s leading counterterrorism forces 

with the opportunity to confront a threat not well understood, and 

to learn from the Nation’s leading fire department. 

Following Benghazi, FDNY was asked to advise the Department 

of State’s Diplomatic Security Services on the most critical features 

of fire as a weapon. Agents were put through firefighting training 

at the fire academy, introduced how to extricate people from a fortified vehicle, and to walk through an exercise of a Mumbai-style 

scenario. 

Here again, the examples where lessons were learned through 

the research of FDNY were leveraged to a greater end. FDNY has 

also worked closely with the London Fire Brigade on counterterrorism measures since the 7/7 bombing in 2005. 

In preparation for the 2012 Olympics, FDNY discussed with the 

London Fire Brigade and the Metropolitan Police Services possible 

response scenarios to an active shooter attack involving fire in multiple locations. 

In addition, in May 2012, FDNY collaborated with the Department of Homeland Security Office of Intelligence Analysis to release a document on terrorist interest in using fire as a weapon. 

This document addresses the advantages of using fire over other 

terrorist tactics, potential mass casualty, economic damage, and 

the dangers of this type of an attack in a high-rise building. 

This hearing is important. It allows the FDNY to share what it 

has learned about this threat posed by a Mumbai-style attack. By 

adapting a multi-disciplined approach to fire as a weapon, we have 

developed real and workable tactics to mitigate the attack. 

However, more work and training is needed to be done. Fire, 

emergency medical, law enforcement, and security services must 

continue to work jointly on this threat. The FDNY is committed to 

this continuation of this effort. We urge Congress to continue its 

support, and funding, and leadership in these areas. 

Finally, the Federal Government can certainly benefit from 

leveraging the subject-matter expertise of organizations like FDNY. 

The unique partnership we have developed reflects the value of the 

Federal grant programs and other investments made in the FDNY, 

and how these lessons learned can be shared with other organizations to keep people safe. 

Thank you again for this invitation to discuss this very important homeland security issue. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Pfeifer follows:] 
10 

1 New York City Fire Department, Counterterrorism and Risk Management Strategy, 2011. 2The images of buildings on fire with people trapped at the windows captured the world’s attention and provided a dramatic backdrop to the terrorist actions. 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JOSEPH W. PFEIFER

12 JUNE 2013 

INTRODUCTION

Good morning Chairman McCaul, Chairman King, Ranking Member Higgins, and 

distinguished Members of the Subcommittee for Counterterrorism and Intelligence. 

My name is Joseph Pfeifer and I am the chief of counterterrorism for the New York 

City Fire Department (FDNY). Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you 

today about the FDNY’s concerns and initiatives related to the use of fire as a weapon by those who are determined to bring harm to the United States. 

The use of fire for criminal, gang, and terrorist activities, as well as targeting first 

responders, is not new. Over the past 4 decades the FDNY has faced hundreds of 

intentionally set fires that would often target firefighters. However, on March 25, 

1990 the unthinkable happened. An arsonist with a plastic container of gasoline 

spread fuel on the exit stairs of the ‘‘Happy Land Night Club’’ in the Bronx, intentionally killing 87 people, foreshadowing even larger events to come. The attacks of 

September 11, 2001 are remembered as the first to employ airplanes as weapons 

of mass destruction, resulting in the loss of almost 3,000 people. However, it was 

the resultant fires, which brought down Towers 1 and 2 of the World Trade Center 

in the deadliest attack on American soil. Seven years later, in what is described as 

a ‘‘paradigm shift,’’ 10 terrorist operatives from Lashkar-e-Taiba carried out attacks 

over 3 days in Mumbai, India in November 2008, using a mix of automatic weapons, 

explosives, and fire.1 Each of these attacks is remembered for something other than 

fire yet, in each, it was the fire that complicated rescue operations and drastically 

increased the lethality of the attacks. 

A full understanding of fire as a weapon and implications for response are essential for homeland security, as it requires new policies and partnerships to address 

the emerging threat. Fire is an attractive weapon for terrorists for several reasons. 

Igniting a fire requires little to no training. Fire and associated smoke can penetrate 

defenses with alarming lethality. Fire makes tactical response more difficult. And, 

the images of fire increases media coverage, capturing world attention.2 FDNY has 

been studying this terrorist trend closely and, as a result of those efforts, the Department is leading the National fire service on this issue. 

Security personnel and emergency responders must rethink the way that they 

prepare and respond to incidents and anticipate the use of fire as a weapon, especially when combined with other attack methods. My testimony will focus on three 

areas: (i) Understanding the terrorist use of fire as a weapon; (ii) the complexities 

of responding to multi-modality attacks involving fire; and (iii) the role the FDNY 

can play in National homeland security efforts. 

UNDERSTANDING FIRE AS A WEAPON

The devastating 2008 attacks in Mumbai, India represent a game-changer. Over 

3 days, a city of nearly 14 million was held hostage while 200 people were murdered 

in multiple locations across the city, introducing a new model for terrorist attacks. 

The nature of the Mumbai attack confused those providing tactical response, rescue 

operations, fire extinguishment, and mass casualty care. The attackers employed 

multiple means of attack including: Improvised explosive devices, targeted killings 

(assassination), hostage barricade, building takeover, active shooter, kidnapping, 

and fire. Despite all of the violence, the most iconic images from that event remain 

the fire at Taj Mahal Hotel. The pictures of people hanging out the windows of the 

hotel to escape the fire are reminiscent of 9/11. 

Brian Jenkins notably stated in 1974 that ‘‘Terrorist attacks are often carefully 

choreographed to attract the attention of the electronic media and the international 

press... Terrorism is theater.’’ Directing the attack from Pakistan, the mastermind asked the terrorists, ‘‘Are you setting the fire or not?’’ He understood that the 

fire would capture the attention of the television cameras outside the hotel and 

would create an image the world would watch. In this case fire was used as a strategic weapon. Yet it also created a condition that complicated the rescue planning 

and challenged the first responders to deal with not only an active-shooter threat 

inside a hostage barricade situation but also one where fire and smoke created a 

second layer of obstacles to the rescue force—one for which they were not prepared. 
11 

3Fire Department in the city of New York, ‘‘Defining a Mumbai-style Attack,’’ Fireguard, 

April, 2011. 

On September 11, 2012, the first murder of an American ambassador since 1988 

took place in in Benghazi, Libya. Though firearms, IEDs, and military ordinance 

were used, it was not bullets or explosives that killed the U.S. ambassador. It was 

smoke from an arson fire. During that attack of the U.S. mission in Benghazi, which 

killed two Americans, terrorists reportedly linked to Ansar al-Sharia and al-Qaeda 

in the Islamic Maghreb, used fuel from jerry cans to start a fire in the main villa, 

where Ambassador Christopher Stevens was sheltering in the designated location 

with two members of his diplomatic security detail. As the three men attempted to 

escape the untenable atmosphere, filled with choking, blinding smoke, the ambassador was separated from the one member of the detail who was able to escape 

through a window. Unfortunately, Ambassador Stevens and the other agent did not 

follow. Similar to 9/11 and Mumbai, the world was left with another image of a 

building ablaze during a terrorist attack. Following this incident, similar arson attacks took place days after Benghazi against the U.N. Multinational Force in the 

Sinai Peninsula as well as at the U.S. Embassy in Tunis, Tunisia. 

While successful attacks are instructive, it is equally important to study unrealized terrorist plots that reveal a great deal about intentions, motivations, target selection, and desired tactics of our adversaries. 

• Arriving in the United States from the United Kingdom, al-Qaeda operative 

Dhiren Barot carried out reconnaissance for terrorist attacks in New York City 

and Washington, DC. Part of his research focused on exploiting building 

vulnerabilities, including gaps in fire protection. He determined that he could 

cause significant damage to the Prudential Building in Newark, New Jersey 

and the Citi Corp Building in New York by ramming a loaded gas tanker truck 

into the lobby and then igniting the fuel. 

• Another al-Qaeda operative, Brooklyn-born Jose Padilla, determined that a 

‘‘dirty bomb’’ attack might be too difficult to execute, so instead he planned to 

set wildfires, as well as ignite high-rise buildings by damaging the gas lines in 

apartments. 

• An al-Qaeda cell in the United Kingdom researched means to disable fire suppression systems to increase the impact of a plot that was ultimately disrupted 

by authorities. 

These failed plots point to a strong interest in the use of fire as a weapon by alQaeda and those it influences. In its widely disseminated English-language Inspire 

magazine, al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has repeatedly urged aspiring homegrown violent extremists to carry out low-tech, high-impact attacks in the United 

States or other Western countries. In one issue of Inspire, self-radicalized readers 

are introduced to various methods of performing an attack, including the use of simple ‘‘ember bombs’’ to ignite forest fires. Equally important, the images from attacks 

like Mumbai serve as a model for others to follow. 

What we are seeing from these events is that a group does not need a great deal 

of training to conduct a dramatic terrorist attack. Recently, we witnessed two men 

at the Boston Marathon kill three people, injure 275 others and paralyze the city. 

The Boston attacks serve as an important reminder that attacks need not be sophisticated to be deadly. Indeed, a survey of al-Qaeda-inspired attack plots in the United 

States over the past decade reveals a trend remarkable for the simplicity of attack 

plans. Fire as a weapon, by itself or along with other tactics, presents significant 

challenges that first responders and security forces must contend with in planning, 

preparation, and drills. 

COMPLEXITIES IN RESPONDING TO MULTI-MODALITY ATTACKS INVOLVING FIRE

FDNY research and preparedness efforts on fire as a weapon have centered on 

what is now known as the ‘‘Mumbai-style attack method.’’ In early 2009, shortly 

after the Mumbai attack, New York City fire and police began tabletop exercises focused on the use of fire in terrorist attacks. The salient features of a Mumbai-style 

attack include: Multiple attackers, targets, and weapon types (guns, explosives, and 

fire) deployed over a prolonged operational period leveraging media attention to amplify the effects of the attack.3 These factors create unique challenges for first responders beginning with the ability to quickly and accurately gain situational 

awareness of the nature and extent of the attack, the need for multiple command 

posts to address multiple attack sites, and tactics, techniques, and procedures to 

deal with attacks deploying both fire and other attack modalities, e.g., active shooter. 
12 

4See attachment for a copy of: Terrorist Interest in Using Fire as a Weapon, 2012. [The information has been retained in committee files.] 

Fire presents a qualitatively different type of attack when used in conjunction 

with other attack means. Fire, and its associated smoke, can prove disorienting to 

a responding force, inhibit ingress to the target, create structural dangers and potentially increase the number of casualties that the security forces will encounter 

while trying to resolve the situation. These factors present significant challenges to 

counterterrorism operations. 

To address these complex challenges, the FDNY has reaffirmed its relationships 

with established partners like the NYPD, and forged new partnerships that add essential expertise to develop effective techniques, tactics, and procedures. The results 

of these initiatives are jointly published intelligence bulletins, forward-looking joint 

exercises, and information exchanges that are pushing response models forward. 

Several partnerships are worthy of mention: FDNY began meetings with FBI’s 

New York SWAT team to explore the idea of joint tactical teams simultaneously facing armed terrorists, fire and smoke, victims and mass casualties. Discussions and 

tabletop exercises led to two full-scale exercises that tested this concept. The insights gained from this 1-year collaboration with the FBI culminated in the Interagency Tactical Response Model released in June 2012. 

In May of last year, FDNY began collaboration with the U.S. military’s Special 

Operations Forces that specialize in rapid solutions to current and anticipated problems on the battlefield. As with the FBI, a series of meetings, training modules, and 

tabletop exercises led to the group’s February 2013 ‘‘Red Team’’ paper on Fire and 

Smoke as a Weapon, envisioning a Mumbai-style attack in a hypothetical Manhattan office building in an attempt to gauge emergency responder preparedness related to this novel attack method. 

After the Benghazi attacks, FDNY was leveraged to advise the Department of 

State’s Diplomatic Security Service, specifically its high-threat response team called 

the Mobile Security Deployment. Diplomatic Service agents were briefed on the 

most critical features of fire as a weapon. Agents were then were put through firefighting training at the FDNY training academy, including extrication of fortified 

vehicles and a walk-through exercise of a Mumbai-style scenario. 

Finally, the FDNY has worked closely with the London Fire Brigade on counterterrorism measures since the 7/7 bombings in 2005. In preparation for the 2012 

Olympics, FDNY discussed with the London’s fire service and the Metropolitan Police Service possible response scenarios to active-shooter attacks involving fire in 

multiple locations. 

LEADING ROLE OF FDNY IN NATIONAL HOMELAND SECURITY EFFORTS

As consumers of intelligence, and the first line of defense when terrorist attacks 

occur, emergency responders require the best intelligence to carry out their duties 

across all mission areas. The understanding of the threat environment drives training initiatives, general awareness, safety protocols, operating procedures, and risk 

management. 

However, the fire service is more than a consumer of intelligence. It is also a producer, as well as a non-traditional intelligence partner. Firefighters and emergency 

medical personnel offer unique perspectives to more established intelligence partners and law enforcement, adding richness and insights in the understanding of the 

vulnerabilities and consequences related to varying threat streams. For more than 

5 years, FDNY has produced a weekly intelligence product called the Watchline, balancing a strategic focus with operational relevance to its primary readership: Emergency responders. Fire service intelligence serves not only the response community 

but its intelligence partners with the delivery of tailored intelligence on the latest 

threats, trends, events, and innovations that affect these groups, including the use 

of fire as a weapon on the world stage. 

FDNY has also sent one of its officers to the National Counterterrorism Center 

(NCTC) on a 1-year detail where he not only receives the latest intelligence and 

threat data but he also provides the intelligence community with fire service subject 

matter expertise on a broad range of issues related to emergency responders. NCTC 

has committed to provide first responders with the best threat intelligence so they 

can operate safely in performing their life-saving mission, and recognizes the intrinsic value of this non-traditional partnership. 

In addition, the FDNY collaborates with other partners throughout the intelligence community on the production of intelligence products. In May 2012, the Department of Homeland Security Office of Intelligence and Analysis released Terrorist Interest in Using Fire as a Weapon, written in close consultation with FDNY.4
13 

Key findings centered on the advantages of using fire over other terrorist tactics, 

potential for mass casualties, economic damage, and emergency resource depletion. 

Working with the Department of Defense’s Combating Terrorism Technical Support Office and New Mexico Tech’s Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center, the FDNY wants to examine the vulnerability of high-rise building fire suppression systems. This interagency group hopes to construct a fire protection system and 

building mock-up for the purpose of testing blast effects on standpipes and sprinklers. Test results could then be used to inform first responders, Homeland Security, 

and the State Department of the level of vulnerability of a combination attack of 

IEDs and fire. 

CONCLUSION

This type of interagency and international collaboration by the FDNY demonstrates the importance of multi-agency solutions to these complex problems. In an 

era of ever-constraining resources, it is critical that organizations such as the FDNY 

leverage their expertise to support broader audiences as we continue to face a dynamic and resilient enemy. The recognition of terrorists’ interest in the use of fire 

as a weapon and the resulting complexities are important considerations for all first 

responders and security forces. 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Chief Pfeifer. With the other witnesses, 

even though technically it is a 5-minute limit, in view of the importance of this, and it is a subcommittee hearing, if any of you feel 

you have to go over for a few minutes, there is no problem with 

that at all. Assume Ranking Member’s agreement. 

Our next witness is Dr. Christine Fair, an assistant professor at 

the Center for Peace and Security Studies within Georgetown University’s Edmond A. Walsh School of Foreign Service. Previously, 

Dr. Fair served as a senior political scientist with the RAND Corporation, a political officer to the U.N. Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, and a senior research associate, the Center for Conflict 

Analysis and Prevention. 

Dr. Fair’s research focuses on political and military affairs in 

South Asia, and covers a range of security issues in Afghanistan, 

Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka. She is a member of 

the International Institute of Strategic Studies, Council on Foreign 

Relations, and serves on the Editorial Board of Studies in Conflict 

in Terrorism. 

Dr. Fair, welcome you today. Look forward to your testimony. 

Thank you. 

STATEMENT OF C. CHRISTINE FAIR, PH.D., ASSISTANT 

PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY 

Ms. FAIR. Thank you for the privilege to be here again to talk 

about Lashkar-e-Taiba. I have submitted a written testimony. I 

will also draw your attention to the testimony I wrote for this committee 2 years ago, and also one in 2009 for the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee, looking at al-Qaeda and the Taliban. 

I also want to say, Mr. Chairman, I was incredibly grateful for 

the very lucid comments you offered in your opening remarks. I 

wish that more U.S. Government officials would be as candid and 

perspicacious in identifying the threat that Pakistan, the myriad 

Islamist groups that it supports for its internal and external goals, 

but also would add to that list the ISI. So I thank you for your clarity on this issue. 

So I want to pick up upon an issue that you yourself began with. 

Lashkar-e-Taiba now, which generally operates under the name 

Jamaat-ud-Dawa, is the most coherent terrorist organization oper-
14 

ating in and from Pakistan. It enjoys the complete unfettered support, not only of Pakistan’s intelligence agency, but has even enjoyed at certain periods in time, financial support from the Punjab 

government, which is the relevant province in which Jamaat-udDawa is situated, as most of its infrastructure is actually there. 

Whereas other terrorist organizations have mobilized to target 

the Pakistani state, LeT/Jamaat-ud-Dawa has never done so. It has 

never conducted any operation as an organization within Pakistan. 

Not only that, it is an important domestic tool the Pakistani state 

uses to counter those terrorist organizations that have been operating against Pakistan citizens and state targets. 

Many times, American analysts will focus on the external utility 

of this organization. I also look at the domestic politics of the organization. It is when you look at the domestic politics of the organization that you understand how important it is to the state, both 

as a bulwark against these other groups, but it is interesting to the 

extent to which the ISI actually props up Jamaat-ud-Dawa domestically. 

If you look at media coverage of recent humanitarian disasters, 

you will always find coverage of Lashkar-e-Taiba’s so-called humanitarian work. I have done research on this issue. They never 

do what the media actually says they do. 

The reason why they are given this media campaign is because 

the ISI directly points journalists and so forth to cover the very 

small number of camps. So what we find consistently is the ISI is 

trying to prop up the image of this organization. 

The reason why it does this is that it wants to cultivate support 

amongst Pakistanis, then uses that support domestically to resist 

American pressure to do something about the organization. Pakistan will consistently say that it is doing everything that it can to 

deal with the terrorist problem. That is absolute nonsense. 

I want to draw your attention to a report that I co-authored 

under the auspices of the Combating Terrorism Center. We analyzed 900 biographies of these LeT operatives. 

Many of them have military backgrounds. We see very close linkages between them and the Pakistan army, particularly in the 

areas from which they recruit. The vast majority of the LeT 

operatives are coming from the Punjab, which is where the vast 

majority of the Pakistan army infrastructure is located. 

In my testimony, I actually provide a photograph. I was recently 

an election observer in Pakistan. I was missioned to go observe in 

Murree. As our vehicle was going down the road, I happened to see 

a Jamaat-ud-Dawa sign, and it happened to be right across the 

street from the military police station. 

So that photograph is in the testimony. I also provide a link to 

a video that I took of the same. So this idea that there is anything 

but not only tolerance, but complete facilitation of the organization 

is just—it is untenable from any point of view. 

You have also, I am sure, have seen the LeT rallies, Hafiz Saeed 

regularly gives interviews to domestic and foreign media. When the 

Pakistanis say that Jamaat-ud-Dawa’s not a terrorist organization, 

again, I point to some of the evidence I provided in my testimony. 
15 

I provided photographs of their publications; one, ‘‘We Mother of 

the Lashkar-e-Taiba,’’ published by the Jamaat-ud-Dawa publishing outfit. 

Also, I call your attention to their minimum opus, ‘‘Why are We 

Waging Jihad?’’ It is a 35-page document that talks about, well, 

frankly, killing people, so putting to rest many of the claims that 

the Pakistanis make. 

I want to think a little bit about what are the extended goals of 

the organization, given that historically it has operated largely 

within South Asia; although, as the Chairman noted, also against 

Americans and our allies in Afghanistan. 

The biographies that we analyze as a part of the Combating Terrorism Center effort, shows that Hafiz Saeed and other LeT leadership are deeply involved in selecting people for training, for selecting them for additional training, and ultimately for missioning 

them. 

This is very definitely a case of leader-led Jihad. You see the 

militants describing how they have had to lobby to the leadership 

organization to get selected for a training, and to ultimately be deployed. So this is a very hands-on tactical organization. 

But this also raises interesting questions for the threat that they 

pose to the American homeland. Given that they are so tightly allied to the ISI, perhaps the most important asset that they enjoy 

is unfettered access to Pakistan itself, right, being able to recruit 

amongst Pakistanis, being able to raise money, being able to train 

wherever they would like to train in Pakistan, without any sort of 

limitation. 

So this does, for me, raise a question: What would it take for LeT 

to actually conduct an attack here as an organization? Now, this 

is very distinct from individuals who have had ties with LeT coming back to conduct violence. 

But for LeT to attack the United States on the homeland, this 

would, in my view, require ISI acquiescence. Now, Pakistan likes 

to cultivate plausible deniability. 

I am a fan of doing everything we can to shut down that plausible deniability by explaining to the ISI, and quite frankly to other 

Pakistani organizations and the citizenry, that if there is an LeT 

attack here, we will treat it as an act of war. 

I don’t understand why we indulge the space that Pakistan uses 

for plausible deniability. It does this deliberately. 

So for example—I am sure Dr. Tankel can speak to this as well— 

the Indian Mujahedeen is a proxy organization for Lashkar-eTaiba, so that when the Indian Mujahedeen conduct attacks, as 

those described by Mr. Pfeifer, the Pakistani state can put an additional layer of buffer between it and those attacks. 

I think we need to do whatever we can, using our tools of foreign 

policy, to really restrict that scope for plausible deniability. 

I also am not convinced that LeT can recruit a Pakistani with 

the necessary skills to come here and conduct that sort of attack, 

and getting a visa, for example. However, the Diaspora, this is the 

place where I think we are really most at risk, this is also, I think, 

where the American Government has a lot farther to go in terms 

of the different agency databases that allow us to identify and apprehend a potential perpetrator once they are here. 
16 

We know the story, the 9/11 bombers either should never have 

gotten a visa, or once they were here, they should have been picked 

up. But the different databases don’t talk to each other. 

Unfortunately, I fear this is still very much the case. In 2006 

when I was conducting fieldwork in Pakistan on madrassas, I came 

across two Americans, American-Pakistanis from Atlanta, that 

were there held against their will. 

Now obviously, they are a prime target for any sort of organization wishing to conduct violence on the United States, because they 

are American citizens. When I came back and discussed this matter, I learned that CIA, FBI, the State Department, there was no 

organization that owned responsibility for understanding that 

these people were in Pakistan. 

So if they had been recruited, the only chance of our being able 

to preempt any sort of nefarious designs, would have been is if 

when they were coming through the airport, Border Security Police 

would have detected something. So I do remain very fearful that 

the Diaspora is a source of really important human capital that 

this organization may leverage to harm us. 

I would also like to put out there on the table that we kind of 

consider a larger aperture. Pakistan hosts so many militant organizations. Because LeT conducted the Mumbai attack, it is very easy 

to really isolate our attention to that particular organization. 

The militant landscape in Pakistan is rapidly evolving. One of 

the consequences of the last 11 years in the war in Afghanistan is 

that groups that were once very parochial have become much more 

globalized. In the same way that the LeT could allure or lure in 

someone from the Diaspora—by the way, I don’t simply mean 

American Diaspora. I also mean the European Diaspora—or really 

any country that can have ready access to the United States, so 

can these other groups. 

So I think it is important that while we talk about LeT because 

it is so closely allied to the state, that we also remember that it 

is not the only organization that Pakistan deliberately patronizes. 

So consequently, all of these groups in one way or another do pose 

some potential, particularly when interlaced with the Diaspora. 

I would also like to say—I say this somewhat cautiously—it is 

not just the militant groups that harm us. The ISI operates here. 

I have detailed some of my own experiences with being harassed 

by the ISI in my testimony. 

I am happy to discuss this. It is, as an American citizen, is absolutely outrageous that the ISI intimidates and harasses individuals 

here. I elaborated several situations in my written testimony. 

I would also like to put on the table the other concern. We are 

here because we are talking about Lashkar-e-Taiba. But times are 

also changing. There are myriad other kinds of organizations of different ideologies that also seek to threaten us. 

I have been very dismayed at the inability to have any sensible 

discussion about gun control. I tell my students in my class it is 

actually quite miraculous that these terrorists are so obsessed with 

things like suicide bombing, when they could actually be more destructive by availing themselves of the munitions available at most 

Walmarts. 
17 

1Peter Bergan and Jennifer Rowland, ‘‘Right Wing Extremist Terrorism As Deadly a Threat 

as Al Qaeda?’’ CNN.com, August 8, 2012. http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/07/opinion/bergen-terrorism-wisconsin. 

Yet, we are completely unable to have a discussion about gun 

control in this country. So in some sense, we have just been lucky 

that terrorist organizations haven’t decided to avail themselves of 

that particular hole in our domestic security. 

So in conclusion, I would like to sort of wrap up by going back 

to Pakistan. I was quite shocked to hear that Secretary Kerry 

again issued a waiver so that all of the various kinds of defense 

cooperation sales could continue to Pakistan unfettered. 

I was also surprised that no American news outlet covered this. 

I understand why we need to continue acquiescing to Pakistan’s coercive demands. But after 2014 when we are no longer, you know, 

basically dependent upon Pakistan, I really hope that this chamber, as well as other elements of the U.S. Government, will take 

up a very invigorated, honest, data-driven assessment of what 

Pakistan has been. 

It has taken billions of dollars. It has killed our troops. It continues to use jihadists under its expanding nuclear umbrella as its 

primary tool of foreign policy. Clearly, this policy of financial allurement in conventional weapons, has not made Pakistan in any 

way, shape, or form, more compliant with the sorts of things that 

advance American interests. 

So I encourage you, after 2014, when our dependence upon Pakistan diminishes as we withdraw from Afghanistan, that we really 

take another look at this country, and really view it I think more 

in the light of what it is. It has been more of an enemy than it has 

been a friend. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Fair follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF C. CHRISTINE FAIR

JUNE 12, 2013 

INTRODUCTION

Thank you for the privilege of sharing my assessment of the risks that groups like 

Lashkar-e-Taiba pose to the American homeland. In doing so, I will present a brief 

update on the organization and its likely evolving intentions and capabilities. However, I will also encourage you to consider other Pakistan-based terrorist organizations as well as the activities of Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the ISI, here in the 

United States. 

While Islamist groups continue to pose an undeniable threat, it is also important 

to acknowledge the reality that groups of other ideologies and religious commitments also seek to commit violence in this country and have done so.1 Unfortunately, any terrorist organization can easily avail of the permissive environment to 

obtain any range of guns and munitions. In fact, it is surprising that terrorist organizations have not perpetrated a Mumbai-like attack given that the United States 

routinely experiences mass killings by lone shooters. 

Returning to Pakistan, as 2014 nears and as the United States becomes less dependent upon Pakistan for operations in Afghanistan, I hope that that the U.S. Government will seriously consider its options with respect to Pakistan. The policy of 

appeasement through financial allurements and conventional military sales has not 

made Pakistan more likely to give up its reliance upon Islamist militants under its 

ever-expanding nuclear umbrella. It is difficult to escape the conclusion that Pakistan’s intelligence agency is responsible for many deaths of Americans and our allies 

in Afghanistan, despite the massive assistance the Pakistanis have received ostensibly to support the U.S.-led war on terrorism in Afghanistan and beyond. The realities of the past decade should be a wake-up call that a new policy is required to 

contend with the threats that Pakistan poses and will pose. 
18 

2Please see previous author testimony for a detailed description of the organization and the 

Mumbai 2008 attack. C. Christine Fair, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Taiba beyond Bin Laden: Enduring Challenges for the Region and the International Community.’’ Testimony prepared for the U.S. Senate, Foreign Relations Committee Hearing on ‘‘Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Other Extremist 

Groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan,’’ May 24, 2011. http://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/ 

media/doc/FairlTestimony.pdf; C. Christine Fair, ‘‘Antecedents and Implications of the November 2008 Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) Attack Upon Several Targets in the Indian Mega-City of 

Mumbai,’’ Testimony prepred for the U.S. House of Representatives, Homeland Security Committee, Subcommittee on Transportation Security and Infrastructure Protection on Mar 11, 

2009. http://home.comcast.net/∼christinelfair/pubs/CT-320lChristinelFair.pdf. 3 C. Christine Fair, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Tayiba and the Pakistani State,’’ Survival, Vol. 53, No. 4 (August 2011), pp. 1–23. 4Tahir Khan, ‘‘Cracks appear: TTP braces against militant offensive in Mohmand ,’’ Pakistan 

Express Tribune, June 8, 2013. tribune.com.pk/story/560674/cracks-appear-ttp-braces-againstmilitant-offensive-in-mohmand/. 5Fair, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Tayiba and the Pakistani State.’’ 

6 C. Christine Fair, ‘‘Not at the Forefront of Flood Relief,’’ ForeignPolicy.com, September 20, 

2010. http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/09/20/notlatlthelforefrontloflfloodlrelief. 7Fair, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Tayiba and the Pakistani State.’’ 

8Fair, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Tayiba and the Pakistani State.’’ 

9See Shuja Nawaz, ‘‘Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army, and the Wars Within’’ (New York: 

Oxford University Press, 2008), especially 42–92; Shuja Nawaz, ‘‘The First Kashmir War RevisLASHKAR-E-TAIBA: A BRIEF UPDATE

Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), which generally now operates under the name Jamaat-udDawa (JuD), is the most organized and coherent terrorist organization operating 

from Pakistan. (For an extensive background on the organization and its history of 

high-profile attacks, see author’s previous prepared testimony.)2 LeT has never attacked any targets within the state of Pakistan and has consistently been an ideological weapon of Pakistan’s government against the largely Deobandi groups (a 

rival Islamist interpretive tradition to that of LeT) that have been terrorizing the 

state and its citizens.3 Pakistan’s media has recently reported that LeT, along with 

another pro-state militant group ‘‘Ansarul Islam,’’ is about to begin confronting the 

Pakistani Taliban (Tehreek-e-Taliban-Pakistan, or TTP) with violence, The LeT disputes this claim, however.4 What is not in dispute is that the LeT denounces violence committed against the Pakistani state or its citizens and criticizes the 

Deobandi organizations for doing just that.5

To facilitate LeT’s pro-state message countering that of the various Deobandi organizations operating in Pakistan and against Pakistanis (e.g. Lashkar-e-Jhangvi 

and the Pakistani Taliban), Pakistan’s Ministry of Information and the armed 

force’s Interservices Public Relations appear to direct Pakistani and international 

media to cover the ostensible relief efforts of JuD and its other alias, Falah Insaniat 

Foundation (e.g. during Pakistan’s 2005 earthquake and the 2010 monsoon-related 

flood). The media coverage of this humanitarian work seemed far in excess of the 

actual relief activities conducted. Subsequent research has shown that the organization did not provide the relief that the various media proclaimed.6 In essence, this 

media coverage handed the organization a public relations boon they did not deserve. 

In survey work that my colleagues and I have conducted in Pakistan, we have 

found that the various state and non-state efforts to rebrand LeT as JuD in Pakistan have been successful. During survey pretesting in Pakistan in 2011, we found 

that Pakistani respondents viewed the two organizations as being quite distinct and 

engaging in different activities with the latter being seen more often as providing 

public services. 

As I argued in 2011, this strategy is important. By fostering public support for 

the organization at home, the Pakistani state can resist pressure from the United 

States and others to work against the organization.7 Under these varied guises, 

LeT/JuD can continue to recruit, raise funds, and support its message of jihad 

against the ‘‘external kuffar’’ such as the Indians, Americans, Israelis, and so forth.8

The continued official investment in the organization and expanding public presence 

suggests that the Pakistani state is ever more dependent upon this proxy for both 

domestic and foreign policy requirements. 

It is important to understand that whereas in some countries terrorist organizations arise for a myriad of largely exogenous reasons, in Pakistan militant organizations have long been organized with the active assistance of the state. In fact, this 

phenomenon began in the earliest days of Pakistan’s independence when various 

parts of the provincial and federal governments supported tribal militias in their invasion of India in order to seize Kashmir with support from the Pakistan army.9
19 

ited,’’ India Review 7, no. 2 (April 2008): 115–54; Praveen Swami, India, Pakistan and the Secret 

Jihad: The Covert War in Kashmir, 1947–2004 (London: Routledge, 2007), 49–75. 10David O. Smith, ‘‘The US Experience with Tactical Nuclear Weapons: Lessons for South 

Asia,’’ The Stimson Center, March 2013. http://www.stimson.org/summaries/smith-on-tacticalnuclear-weapons-in-south-asia-/. 11Don Rassler, Christine Fair, Anirban Ghosh, Arif Jamal, Nadia Shoeb, ‘‘The Fighters of 

Lashkar-e-Taiba: Recruitment, Training, Deployment and Death,’’ Combatting Terrorism Center 

at West Point, Occasional Paper Series, Apr 04, 2013. http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/ 

uploads/2013/04/Fighters-of-LeTlFinal.pdf 12 Human Imtiaz, ‘‘Illusions in Punjabi,’’ ForeignPolicy.com Af-Pak Channel, June 19, 2010. 

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/06/19/illusionslinlpunjab. 13See exposition in Fair, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Tayiba and the Pakistani State.’’ 

Pakistan continues to rely upon Islamist terrorism under the security of expanding 

nuclear umbrella to prosecute its foreign policies with increasing impunity. Equally 

disconcerting for U.S. interests, Pakistan is busily expanding its nuclear arsenal 

with a renewed focused upon tactical—battlefield—nuclear weapons.10

While media accounts characterize LeT activists as being poor and poorly educated, the data do not support this claim. In an April 2013 report which I co-authored under the auspices of the Combatting Terrorism Center (CTC) at West Point, 

my colleagues and I found that LeT activists tend to be very well-educated relative 

to Pakistani males in general.11 Most of the LeT terrorists in our database came 

from Pakistan’s Punjab province with about ten districts accounting for most of the 

recruitment. As shown in Figure 1 below, not only do most of the LeT activists come 

from the Punjab, many of the highest-producing districts for militants are also the 

highest-producing districts for the Pakistan army. This likely reflects that the two 

organizations have similar human capital requirements and thus have similar ‘‘target markets’’ for recruitment. 

That LeT militants and the army officers come from similar districts is an important point. Whereas Pakistan routinely claims that it cannot manage the various 

terrorist problems it confronts, it should be noted that much of the LeT is based 

in the Punjab which is also where the vast majority of the Pakistan army’s infrastructure is located: I Corps is in Mangla; II Corps is in Multan; IV Corps is in Lahore; XXX Corps is in Gujranwala; XXXI Corps is in Bahawalpur; and X Corps is 

in Rawalpindi. Only three Corps are located outside of the Punjab: V Corps in Karachi; XI Corps in Peshawar and XII Corps in Quetta. Equally, it should be noted that 

in the past, the Punjab government provided financial support to the organization.12

Taken together, Pakistan’s claims that it is doing all that it can to counter these 

myriad threats are risible at best if not outright deception. 

In addition, LeT/JuD organization operates overtly: It holds rallies and anti-U.S. 

demonstrations, collects funds, and its leader (Hafez Saeed) frequently gives interviews to local and international media outlets. To give some sense of how openly 

it operates, in Figure 2, I provide photographs that I took in the hill station town 

of Murree, about 1.5 hours from Islamabad by road, in May of 2013. I happened 

to be in Murree as a part of an election observation mission and noticed this while 

driving by. You will note that this advertisement for JuD is festooned across a set 

of buildings immediately in front of a military police station. 

The Pakistan government insists that JuD is a philanthropic organization and 

thus U.S. claims that it is a terrorist organization are false. However, this claim 

is patently absurd. The afore-noted CTC report is based upon a collection and subsequent analysis of over 900 biographies of slain terrorists. We obtained these biographies from magazines and books published by Jamaat-ud-Dawa’s publishing arm, 

Dara-ul-Andalus at the LeT’s headquarters in Lahore, Char Burji (Figure 3). In addition, in Figure 4, I provide a scanned image of JuD’s volume Hum Kyon Jihad 

Kar Rahen Hain (Why We Wage Jihad?). A perusal of the volume will demonstrate 

that this is indeed about waging militarized jihad and dedicates no space whatsoever to ‘‘philanthropic activities.’’13 These publications are readily available throughout Pakistan. 

In addition, the organization has signage on public spaces (walls, bridges, rickshaws, etc.) advertising for events and campaigns. 

LASHKAR-E-TAIBA: EXPANDED GOALS?

So far, we find continuing evidence that LeT’s leadership exercises considerable 

control over the organization’s operations and operatives. Our CTC effort revealed 

that LeT’s leadership has often been intimately involved in selecting persons for 
20 

14 Rassler, Fair, Ghosh, Jamal, and Shoeb, ‘‘The Fighters of Lashkar-e-Taiba.’’ 15Fair, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Taiba beyond Bin Laden;’’ Fair, ‘‘Antecedents and Implications of the November 2008 Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) Attack.’’ 16 C. Christine Fair, ‘‘Prospects for Effective Internal Security Reforms in India,’’ Commonwealth & Comparative Politics, Vol. 50, No. 2 (April 2012), pp. 145–170; Pradhan Committee. 

Report of the High Level Enquiry Committee (HLEC) on 26/11, 2009. http://www.scribd.com/ 

doc/23474630/Pradhan-Committee-Reportabout-26-11 (accessed 19 January 2012). 17 ‘‘Why did NSG take 9 hrs to get there?’’ Times of India, November 30, 2008. http:// 

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/WhyldidlNSGltakel9lhrsltolgetlthere/articleshow/ 

3775003.cms. 18 C. Christine Fair, ‘‘Prospects for Effective Internal Security Reforms in India,’’ Commonwealth & Comparative Politics, Vol. 50, No. 2 (April 2012), pp. 145–170; Pradhan Committee. 

Report of the High Level Enquiry Committee (HLEC) on 26/11, 2009. http://www.scribd.com/ 

doc/23474630/Pradhan-Committee-Report-about-26-11 (accessed 19 January 2012). 

training and for actual missions.14 What does this tell us, if anything, about LeT’s 

desire to attack the homeland and if so, how could it do so? 

As I argued in 2011, the LeT’s primary utility to the Pakistani state is that it 

services its external goals in India and Afghanistan while remaining restrained and 

pro-state at home. This does not mean that all LeT activists have towed the party 

line: Indeed, it seems as if there is personnel movement between various militant 

groups. Thus some LeT personnel may defect and join other groups but this does 

not mean that the group is no longer loyal to the state. But it does raise definitional 

problems about who is a LeT member and what degree of sanction from the organization is necessary to define any given strike as a ‘‘LeT attack.’’ This raises further 

questions about how tightly Pakistan’s military and intelligence agencies control all 

or even most of the organization’s operations. Indeed, the Pakistani state has long 

benefited from plausible deniability and seems to even actively cultivate this. For 

example, Indian and American analysts alike believe that the Pakistani intelligence 

agencies have cultivated the Indian Mujahideen for years to add an additional layer 

of plausible deniability about the degree to which the Pakistani state is involved in 

any given attack in India. 

However, though the organization serves the state’s domestic goals by mobilizing 

against groups that perpetrate anti-Pakistan violence, and serves the external goals 

of the state abroad, LeT walks a fine line between being a loyal agent of the state 

and being able to project itself as an organization with global jihadist goals against 

a presumed threat beyond South Asia. It—like other jihad organizations—has come 

under increasing pressure from its constituents to take the jihad to other infidels 

(kuffar in their language) beyond the confines of South Asia. How can the organization continue to satisfy its Pakistani state backers while also continue to compete 

for personnel, resources, and popular support without satisfying some demand to operate beyond South Asia? 

As a rational organization, I do not believe that the LeT would undertake a catastrophic attack outside of India or Afghanistan without ISI acquiescence. After all, 

the most important asset that the LeT enjoys is unfettered access to Pakistan’s geography and people. This does suggest that some theatres of action for the LeT may 

be more palatable than others for international jihad. Both the United States and 

United Kingdom are of high value for the Pakistani state. An LeT attack in the 

United States could be devastating for Pakistan and thus the organization. However, other theatres such as European countries, may satisfy the organization’s need 

to strike outside of the region while not being so provocative as to jeopardize the 

perquisites it enjoys in Pakistan. This does not preclude individuals with some degree of training from LeT from attempting such an attack however without explicit 

top-level organizational approval much less that of the ISI. 

THINKING BEYOND LET: THREATS TO THE HOMELAND

Irrespective of whether the threat comes from LeT or other organizations, there 

are a number of important risks that require political courage and preparedness to 

manage. We should recognize what made the Mumbai attack of 2008 as devastating 

as it was. As I have argued previously in Congressional testimony, there was little 

in that attack that was new. In addition, the U.S. Government provided India as 

much advanced warning as possible.15 While the Indian government responded as 

best as it could, the overwhelming evidence suggests that their state and federal efforts fell far short of what was needed.16 The National Security Guards took 9 hours 

to reach Mumbai and then had to travel by bus to the sites of the conflict.17 The 

security forces had antiquated weapons and personal protective equipment and the 

law enforcement personnel abjectly failed to secure the perimeter of the crime scene, 

among numerous other catastrophic failures detailed elsewhere.18 It is unlikely that 

American first responders would be so hindered and shambolic in their response, 
21 

19 Erik J. Dahl, ‘‘The Plots that Failed: Intelligence Lessons Learned from Unsuccessful Terrorist Attacks Against the United States,’’ Studies in Conflict and Terrorism, Vol. 34, No. 8 

(2011): p. 635. 20 Erik J. Dahl, ‘‘The Plots that Failed: Intelligence Lessons Learned from Unsuccessful Terrorist Attacks Against the United States,’’ Studies in Conflict and Terrorism, Vol. 34, No. 8 

(2011): p. 635. 21Michael Kenney, ‘‘ ‘Dumb’ Yet Deadly: Local Knowledge and Poor Tradecraft Among 

Islamist Militants in Britain and Spain,’’ Studies in Conflict and Terrorism, Vol. 33, No. 10 

(2010): pp. 911–932. 

based upon recent management of disasters and terrorist attacks, most recently in 

Boston. 

However, other challenges to American security no doubt persist. It is a sad fact 

that most of the 9/11 hijackers either should never have been granted a U.S. visa 

or should have been picked up by an array of U.S. authorities for various other reasons once here. But, as is well known, they all fell through inter-agency data sieves 

that allowed them to enter and remain in the United States despite being identified 

as threats for various reasons. (Questions still linger about the degree of information provided to the United States by the Russians about Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the 

older of the two Boston bombers who was killed in a police shootout.) While the 

United States has made progress in this regard, there are still important loopholes 

that concern me. 

It is unlikely that LeT can recruit, train, and dispatch a terrorist directly to the 

United States; it is more likely that individuals from various diasporas in the 

United States, United Kingdom, Europe, and elsewhere may radicalize and seek 

training from the LeT or other numerous militant groups operating in Pakistan. 

American citizens or permanent residents are a particular risk. During fieldwork in 

2006, I met two American children at a Karachi madrassah being held against their 

will. When I returned to the United States I was dismayed to learn that no U.S. 

agency had any responsibility for such Americans in such predicaments. Had those 

individuals been recruited by a militant organization, the only point at which they 

could have been intercepted was at the point of entry when they returned to the 

United States. (After the media broke their story, these two Atlanta-based Pakistani-Americans finally returned home.) Needless to say, persons from countries 

that can obtain American visas easily pose a similar concern. 

In the context of an Islamist militant attack, the communities of concern are diaspora Muslim communities who radicalize at home and seek training in places like 

Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, or elsewhere. It is important that U.S. authorities be 

able to recognize that certain communities pose more risk than others but it also 

important that they do so in ways that do not alienate the most important allies 

in this struggle: Those members of the same community who outnumber those who 

seek to do violence and who remain important sources of warning about potential 

terrorist activity. The diverse American Muslim community is replete with such examples of patriotic Muslim Americans who have cooperated with law enforcement 

to undermine terrorist plots. 

Local sources of information have been found to be critical in preventing terrorist 

events in the United States. Erik J. Dahl studied 176 failed terrorist plots in the 

United States. He concluded that ‘‘precise intelligence needed to prevent attacks is 

not usually developed through the use of strategic-level tactics that get much of the 

public’s attention... More typically, plots are disrupted as a result of tips from 

the public, informants inside home-grown cells, and long-term surveillance of suspects.’’19 This suggests that the most important thing that U.S. agencies can do is 

‘‘focus on local and domestic intelligence, and to figure out how to gather the necessary intelligence while still maintaining the proper balance between civil liberties 

and national security.’’20

While much concern has been given to the threat that Pakistan’s militant training 

infrastructure poses, research has shown that simply being trained by a terrorist 

organization in places like Pakistan does not necessarily confirm competence to the 

actors. A recent study of Islamist terrorists in the United Kingdom and Spain found 

that they lacked tradecraft and that the training they received did not translate 

well to the target countries. While terrorists in Pakistan can practice their craft, 

once in these environs (e.g. Britain, Spain, etc.) they were unable to continue ‘‘learning by doing.’’ Often their ideological zeal motivated them to focus upon more sophisticated attacks (e.g. suicide attacks) and thus fail to seize the opportunity for 

lower-sophistication/higher-impact attacks.21 This again underscores the importance 

of cultivating local information while not alienating much less criminalizing the entire communities in which these terrorists may insert themselves. 

It should be stated forthrightly that Pakistan-based militants are not the only organizations that pose harm to Americans at home and abroad. Pakistan’s intel-
22 

22For example, see the case of accused ISI operative Gulab Nabi Fai. U.S. Department of Justice, ‘‘Virginia Man Pleads Guilty in Scheme to Conceal Pakistan Government Funding for His 

U.S. Lobbying Efforts,’’ December 07, 2011. http://www.fbi.gov/washingtondc/press-releases/ 

2011/virginia-man-pleads-guilty-in-scheme-to-conceal-pakistan-government-funding-for-his-u.s.- 

lobbying-efforts. 23 Expelled by Pakistan, The New York Times, May 10, 2013. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/ 

05/11/opinion/times-reporter-expelled-by-pakistan.html. 

ligence, the ISI, has the ability to influence events here in the United States. My 

colleagues, peers, and journalist acquaintances suggest that this takes place through 

various means. First, the ISI wields influence by supporting individuals and organizations directly and indirectly in taking positions that are supportive of that of the 

Pakistan government.22

Second, the ISI wields influence by threatening U.S. citizens here in the United 

States. In fact, in May 2011, after I testified on LeT before a Senate subcommittee, 

I received an email that likely was sent at the behest of a Pakistani intelligence 

agency. After receiving this note, I reached out to Ambassador Husain Haqqani because I had planned to avail of a grant I had received to work on my book in Pakistan during the summer of 2011. When at last he could contact me about this, he 

told me forthrightly that I should cancel my trip because ‘‘the crew cuts are after’’ 

me. In addition, I learned that the then-defense attache ́ and ISI liaison (Brigadier 

Butt) sent a letter about me to personnel at the Pakistan embassy barring them 

from meeting with me. This gives some sense of the punitive approaches that this 

organization takes when it does not approve of one’s scholarship on it and/or its 

proxies. 

I have heard disconcerting reports among expatriate Pakistanis that they or Pakistani-Americans have been intimidated. A few weeks back I heard a harrowing story 

about a New York journalist who was reportedly approached by such a man while 

on the subway platform. Reportedly, he told her in Urdu that he could easily push 

her. Obviously, I have no way to confirm or disconfirm this episode. However, I 

want to bring to your attention that very real possibility that individuals are being 

threatened and coerced here on American soil. 

This is in addition to the intrusive role that the ISI plays in granting U.S. citizens 

visas to Pakistan. U.S. scholars receiving Fulbright awards cannot get visas, reportedly due to ISI intrusions. (I also experienced this ISI interference before and even 

during my recent trip to Pakistan in May 2013. The previous Ambassador communicated to me that ‘‘they have an objection’’ due my co-authored report for the CTC 

and because of my public commentary about drones.) Of course, it is not unusual 

to oust foreign journalists from Pakistan—not because they have conducted themselves illegally—but because they report the truth, which is often unflattering and 

contributes to evolving public perception in the United States and elsewhere that 

Pakistan is at best a perfidious ally if not outright foe.23

While these threats from Islamist terrorist and perfidious allies like Pakistan 

warrant your focus, it is critically important that the U.S. Government recognize the 

changing times our country’s polity confronts. There a range of other religious and 

ideological movements which harbor a desire to inflict harm upon the United States 

and its citizens. It is important to balance what appears to be the perceived current 

threat with evolving near-term threats. Indeed, white supremacist, anti-Muslim, 

those who oppose even the most commonsensical of gun control and other bigoted 

organizations also threaten our society and have engaged in violence in recent 

years. The focus upon Islamist terrorist should not be at the expense of these other 

threats. 

In fact, given that individuals frequently perpetrate mass killings with easily-obtained guns and ammunition, it is a surprising fact that terrorist organizations of 

any ideological and religious moorings have not exploited this weakness in our domestic security. Just as it is important that the U.S. Government forthrightly name 

the groups that threaten us, it must also work to limit the harm that these groups 

can do. It is only a matter of time before a terrorist organization—of any ideological 

or religious background—understands that it can easily terrorize Americans by perpetrating mass killings at soft targets using munitions that are easily and readily 

available. It is unfortunate that various gun lobbies have worked assiduously to undermine common-sense approaches to circumscribing this threat and have successfully frustrated any Congressional activity to limit certain types of weapons and munitions in the service of protecting our collective security. 

CONCLUSIONS

In short, while you consider the specific threat that LeT poses to the United 

States and its interests, I encourage you to expand the aperture of your query to 
23 

24 ‘‘US issues fresh waiver for sale of major defence equipment to Pakistan,’’ Times of India, 

April 5, 2013. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-04-05/us/38306243l1ldefenceequipment-foreign-military-financing-pakistan. 

look not only at this group but other Islamist militant groups based in Pakistan. 

While they may not be well-situated to recruit and train a Pakistani to operate here, 

the diaspora seems a ready source of potential persons who are so situated. I also 

encourage you to look pro-actively at the activities of the ISI and its henchpersons 

here in the United States to intimidate Americans and others to acquiesce to their 

insidious demands and to cultivate information that is favorable to the Pakistani 

state. 

While most persons recognize that working with Pakistan is necessary due to its 

importance in wrapping up military operations in Afghanistan, I sincerely hope that 

after 2014 the United States will look very closely at Pakistan and evaluate that 

state’s contribution to the degradation of U.S. security interests in South Asia and 

beyond. I hope that there will be a serious inquiry about the numbers of Americans 

and American allies in Afghanistan whose deaths and injuries can be attributed to 

the ISI’s on-going support to the Taliban and their allies, despite continuing to benefit from U.S. financial assistance and military sales. In this regard, I was dismayed 

to learn that the State Department quietly issued a range of waivers that permitted 

all forms of security cooperation and military sales to proceed as if Pakistan has 

been a faithful, cooperative ally deserving of such emoluments.24 Oddly no American 

news outlet covered this quiet relaxation of U.S. laws and requirements for a country that so brazenly undermines U.S. interests. 

Finally, while considering the threat that specific religious, ideological, and expatriate communities pose to Americans’ safety, I strongly urge you to examine the 

structural features of our society that makes violence relatively easy to perpetrate 

on a large scale, including the ready availability of weaponry as well as continued 

problems in the inter-agency data puzzle that allow some persons with ill-intent to 

slip into the country without detection until they do something deadly. 

FIGURE 1. DISTRICT-WISE PRODUCTION OF LET MILITANTS AND PAKISTAN ARMY

OFFICERS
24 

FIGURE 2. JAMAAT-UD-DAWA ADVERTISEMENT ACROSS FROM MURREE MILITARY POLICE

STATION

FIGURE 3. JUD/LET’S ‘‘WE THE MOTHERS OF THE LASHKAR-E-TAIBA VOL. 3’’ 
25 

FIGURE 4. JAMAAT-UD-DAWA’S ‘‘WHY ARE WE WAGING JIHAD’’ 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Doctor. Appreciate your testimony. I am 

aware of some of the circumstances you talk about. I commend you 

for that. 

Dr. Stephen Tankel is an assistant professor at American University, and a non-resident scholar in the South Asia program at 

the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. His research focuses on terrorism, insurgency, and evolution of violent non-state 

actors, also as political and military affairs in South Asia. 

Dr. Tankel is also an adjunct staff member at the RAND Corporation where he has contributed to research assessing jihadist 

ideology and decision making. His latest book, ‘‘Storming the World 

Stage: The Story of LeT’’ was recently published and examines that 

group’s ideological, strategic, and operational evolution since the 

1980’s within the context of developments in Pakistan, India, and 

Afghanistan. 

Doctor, I appreciate you being here today and you are recognized 

for your testimony. 

STATEMENT OF STEPHEN TANKEL, PH.D., ASSISTANT 

PROFESSOR, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY 

Mr. TANKEL. Thank you very much for having me here today. It 

is an honor to have an opportunity to testify about Lashkar-eTaiba, one of Pakistan’s oldest and most powerful militant groups. 

I too would draw your attention to my submitted written testimony, as well as to testimony that I submitted several years ago 

about LeT. I would also like, Mr. Chairman, to join Dr. Fair in 

commending you for very lucid comments about some of the group’s 

capabilities, which are robust. 

Now as Dr. Fair said, and you yourself have said as well, Mr. 

Chairman, Lashkar-e-Taiba is Pakistan’s most reliable proxy, and 

it considers India to be its main enemy. 
26 

It is not an al-Qaeda affiliate, but since 9/11 the group’s antiAmerican rhetoric has turned into action. The primary threat to 

U.S. citizens from LeT terrorist attacks, I would argue, remains in 

South Asia, such as occurred with the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Those 

were unilateral. Also working with groups like the Indian 

Mujaheddin to target foreign targets as occurred in Pune in 2010 

where they combined to target the German bakery there. LeT can 

also act as part of a consortium, meaning it need not take a lead 

role in order for its capabilities to be used against the United 

States, as Dr. Fair has already said, there are myriad groups in 

Pakistan whose goals are expanding. 

In keeping with the subject of this hearing, I would like to focus 

my testimony on an LeT-led operation against the homeland, which 

could, but would not necessarily look like the Mumbai attacks. It 

certainly has the capabilities to launch such an attack, and I will 

focus the first part of my testimony just expanding on those briefly. 

Its intent to do so is hotly debated. I will focus the second part of 

my testimony on the group’s intent. Then finally I would like to 

highlight just several courses of possible U.S. action. 

LeT’s training camps remain open and the group boasts a stable 

of men who can provide instruction in small unit commando tactics, 

reconnaissance, which is critical, the construction and use of explosive devices, as well as a bevy of other specialized skills. While it 

continues to enjoy reach-back capability into the Pakistani military 

and ISI, it has leveraged financial resources and the operational 

freedom it enjoys to develop an educated product that amplifies 

technical training and planning capabilities, especially in the areas 

of communications and information technology. 

Mr. Chairman as you mentioned, the group has trans-national 

network sections across South Asia, the Persian Gulf, and Europe 

and that reach into the United States and Canada. Historically 

Lashkar-e-Taiba has used its operative base in western countries 

to support its operations in South Asia. However, these networks 

can be redirected to execute or support terrorist attacks in the 

west. There are several examples of foreign LeT operatives doing 

so. It is unclear whether all of these activities were sanctioned by 

the Pakistan-based LeT leadership. Which gets to the importance 

of tensions within the group, and the ability for its capabilities to 

be used by various LeT factions. 

Finally, as was already mentioned, LeT has a long history of 

training people from Western countries including Americans, several of whom have conducted surveillance not far from here. 

Lashkar-e-Taiba has killed American citizens in Mumbai. It deploys fighters to Afghanistan where they continue to confront U.S. 

forces, and it previously sent members to Iraq as well. There is no 

evidence that it has ever attempted an attack against the U.S. 

homeland. The question is, what is stopping them? 

LeT’s restraint has more to do, I would argue, with strategic calculation than ideological inclination. Ideologically it would be more 

than prepared to attack the United States. But it does not want to 

risk its position in Pakistan. As one of its members admitted to me, 

it remains tamed by the ISI. Why might that change? Put simply, 

key LeT leaders, not just Hafiz Saeed but also, and it is important 

to mention them by name, Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi who is the 
27 

group’s operational commander, and Sajid Mir, who oversees its 

foreign assets, might pursue an attack against the United States 

if they believed the group could avoid retribution, or that it could 

withstand the costs, and that these were outweighed by the benefits. 

Here it is important to remember the group is a patient organization. So when considering these calculations, I would like to note 

three variables. First, ISI’s situational awareness of, and influence 

over, core LeT remains strong. If that relationship weakened, or 

LeT believed it could claim plausible deniability for an attack 

against the United States, then this could change the equation. Notably, unlike al-Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba likely would do everything 

possible to hide its hand in an attack against the United States. 

Here it is important to note, its use of front groups such as the Indian Mujaheddin, and also during the 2008 Mumbai attacks when 

it created another front group out of whole cloth, the Deccan 

Mujaheddin, and claimed credit for the attacks through them initially. 

Second, if Pakistan were to crack down for real on LeT, then the 

group’s cost/benefit calculus could change. That is not a reason why 

Pakistan shouldn’t crack down, it is simply to say that it is something that we should be aware of. Alternatively though, if LeT 

leaders surmised that Pakistan was too weak to punish the group, 

and that the United States would be unable, or unwilling to do so, 

then they might also consider moving forward with an attack. 

Third, as I have mentioned already, one must consider the threat 

from factions within Lashkar-e-Taiba. It remains more coherent 

than most Jihadist groups, but internal tensions exist, over whether to sacrifice military adventurism, to protect its social welfare infrastructure, over how close to remain to the state, and over whether to stay locally-focused, or to go global. That is just to name a 

few. 

Where does that leave the United States? Any attempt to disarm 

and demobilize LeT without Pakistani support is destined to fail. 

Pakistan shows no sign of breaking with the group in the near 

term. However, there are steps that the United States can continue 

to take to degrade LeT, and areas where it could increase its efforts. 

First, barring a resurgent al-Qaeda central, the drawdown of 

U.S. forces from Afghanistan could create space for Washington to 

focus more on Lashkar-e-Taiba when allocating resources such as 

intelligence collection and analysts. This is critical. We must understand better the nature of the group, especially as it evolves, and 

the threats it poses. Second, the United States should continue to 

pursue actions necessary to degrade LeT’s international networks. 

Counterterrorism cooperation with India has leveled off since a 

spike after Mumbai, and regenerating this engagement is in both 

country’s interests. 

The arrest and deportation last summer by Saudi Arabia of two 

Indian LeT operatives suggests a greater focus has been given to 

monitoring and infiltrating Gulf networks used for recruitment and 

logistical support. This is to be applauded, but there is more to be 

done. Third, because Washington is unlikely to have success attempting to force strategic steps Pakistan is not yet ready or able 
28 

to take, it should remain focused on containing LeT in the short 

term, while encouraging, assisting, and compelling Pakistan to create conditions for sustained and measurable action against militancy over the longer term. 

Containment does not equal inaction, or inattention. Although 

LeT should not drive U.S. policy towards Pakistan, the 2014 drawdown in Afghanistan and success degrading al-Qaeda central create 

an opportunity to elevate the priority given to LeT. This includes 

continuing to make clear to the ISI that the United States will hold 

it responsible in the event that LeT is then involved in an attack 

on the homeland. It also means pressuring Pakistan to identify, arrest, and extradite any Westerners training, or attempting to train, 

with LeT. 

The United States should also be mindful of opportunities to 

weaken LeT, or separate the group from its support base. It must 

revise its counterterrorism architecture in South Asia in line with 

the decreasing threat from al-Qaeda central, and the evolving 

threats from regional actors like LeT against which unilateral direct action may have less utility. Finally, to echo what Dr. Fair 

said, we need new and better metrics when determining whether 

and how to engage with regard to giving military aid. 

Finally, the United States should prepare for the unexpected. It 

should develop a response plan in the event of an LeT-led attack 

against the homeland that includes a mix of inducements, rewards, 

retributive measures, and unilateral actions vis-a ́-vis Pakistan. It 

should also prepare for the possibility, albeit incredibly remote at 

this point, that Pakistan attempts to mainstream LeT or elements 

of it at some point. This includes exploring how the United States 

might assist overtly, or covertly in such an enterprise, the cost and 

benefits of doing so, and the possible outcomes that might eventuate. 

Let me conclude by saying that Lashkar-e-Taiba is clearly capable of threatening the homeland, but that threat must be kept in 

perspective. The United States must remain attentive to the evolving nature of the group and vigilant in taking steps to degrade it. 

Thank you again for inviting me to testify here today. I look forward to your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Tankel follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF STEPHEN TANKEL

JUNE 12, 2013 

Lashkar-e-Taiba (the Army of the Pure or LeT) is one of Pakistan’s oldest and 

most powerful militant groups. India has been its primary enemy since the early 

1990s and the group has never considered itself to be an al-Qaeda affiliate, but the 

United States is clearly on its enemies list. Since 9/11, the group’s anti-American 

rhetoric has turned into action. LeT has been actively attacking U.S. and Coalition 

forces in Afghanistan since 2004–2005, its presence there increased in the last several years and it deployed a small number of fighters to Iraq following the U.S. invasion of that country. LeT has also killed Americans and other Westerners in terrorist attacks in India and contributed to other plots targeting them as well. The 

group has the capabilities to launch terrorist attacks outside of South Asia, including against the United States, and is likely working to augment those capabilities. 

However, the question of LeT’s intent to engage in a unilateral attack against the 

U.S. homeland remains hotly debated. 

Before turning to LeT’s capabilities and intent, it is important to recognize why 

Pakistan is unlikely to attempt dismantling the group in the near term. First, the 

Pakistani military and its Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) have long 
29 

1 Regarding LeT’s ideological utility see, for example, Sermon by LeT cleric Mubashir Ahmad 

Rabbani entitled ‘‘The Schism of Excommunication,’’ undated. Al-Qaeda refuted points from 

‘‘The Schism of Excommunication,’’ in a book entitled, Knowledgeable Judgment on the Mujrites 

of the (Present) Age. C. Christine Fair, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Tayiba and the Pakistani State,’’ Survival 53, 

no. 4, 2011. Information regarding LeT’s intelligence gathering is based on field interviews in 

Pakistan. Regarding LeT direct action against anti-state actors see, for example, Stephen 

Tankel, Storming the World Stage: The Story of Lashkar-e-Taiba (New York: Columbia University Press, 2011), pp. 196, 200–201. Tahir Khan, ‘‘Mohmand Agency: TTP accuses rival groups 

of plotting attacks on its bases,’’ The Express Tribune, June 9, 2013. 2For a detailed analysis of LeT recruiting patterns and overlaps with those of Pakistan’s military see, Anirban Ghosh et al, The Fighters of Lashkar-e-Taiba: Recruitment, Training, Deployment and Death (West Point, NY: Combating Terrorism Center, 2013). 3 Networks associated with LeT were suspected of supplying the military-grade RDX used in 

the 2010 bombing of the German Bakery in Pune and an LeT commander (Mirza Himayat Baig) 

cooperated with the Indian Mujahideen to execute the attack. Praveen Swami, ‘‘Lashkar-linked 

terror charity raises fears,’’ The Hindu, September 2, 2011. Chandan Haygunde, ‘‘Aspiring 

teacher to terror accused,’’ Indian Express, April 19, 2013. 4The latter are reportedly responsible for building some of the improvised explosive devices 

used in Afghanistan as well as instructing others on how to do so. Tankel, Storming the World 

Stage, pp. 198–199. 

considered LeT to be the country’s most reliable proxy against India and the group 

still provides utility in this regard. Second, Pakistan is facing a serious jihadist insurgency. LeT remains one of the few militant outfits whose policy is to refrain from 

launching attacks against the Pakistani state. Fearing LeT’s capability to execute 

or assist with terrorist attacks in Pakistan’s heartland, the security establishment 

does not want to take any action to change this calculus. LeT has built a robust 

social welfare apparatus via its above-ground wing, Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD), and assorted other legitimate relief organizations. As a result, concerns also exist regarding its capability to provoke social unrest in strongholds such as Lahore. Moreover, 

LeT actually provides assistance at times against some of the groups involved in 

anti-state violence. This assistance includes challenging the ideological 

underpinnings of waging jihad against a Muslim government, providing intelligence 

regarding anti-state militants’ activities, and in some instances even targeting antistate militants directly.1 LeT has provided similar intelligence and direct action assistance against separatists in Balochistan as well. In short, the group has utility 

both externally and internally. Third, some of LeT’s members enjoy strong personal 

relationships with members of Pakistan’s armed forces.2

The safe haven LeT enjoys within Pakistan has provided it the freedom of movement necessary to develop capabilities and capacity that enable it to threaten the 

United States. At the same time, its integration with the Pakistani state raises 

questions as to whether LeT leaders would risk their group’s position to execute 

such an attack. The following focuses on a LeT-lead operation against the U.S. 

homeland. It is important to note, however, that the primary threat to U.S. citizens 

from LeT terrorist attacks remains in South Asia, either unilaterally as was the 

case with the 2008 Mumbai attacks or via operations executed in concert with the 

Indian Mujahideen.3 Further, LeT could act as part of a consortium, meaning it 

need not take the lead role in an attack in order for its capabilities to be used 

against the U.S. homeland. 

CAPABILITIES TO LAUNCH AN LET-LEAD ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES

LeT’s training camps in Pakistan remain open and the group boasts a stable of 

men who can provide instruction in small-unit commando tactics, reconnaissance, 

counter-intelligence and the construction and use of explosive devices. The group 

has transnational networks stretching across South Asia, the Persian Gulf, and Europe, with a particularly strong connection to the United Kingdom, and reach into 

the United States and Canada. LeT operates a robust above-ground infrastructure 

that, combined with investments in legitimate enterprises in Pakistan and fundraising networks abroad, has enabled it to operate independent of direct ISI financial support. While it continues to enjoy reach-back capability into the Pakistani 

military and ISI, LeT also has leveraged its financial resources and operational freedom to develop an educated cadre among its membership. Collectively, these individuals amplify technical, training, and planning capabilities. 

Training Apparatus 

Soldiers on secondment from the military trained many of LeT’s trainers, and 

some of them took early retirement to join the group. As a result, LeT militants and 

trainers are considered to be among the most tactically adept and its bomb-makers 

to be among the best in the region.4 Its own camps continue to operate in Pakistan- 
30 

5For a detailed assessment of LeT’s training infrastructure and programs see, Ibid, pp. 74– 

79. 6 ‘‘Testimony of David Coleman Headley to the Indian National Investigative Agency,’’ 3–9 

June 2010. 7The Mumbai attacks were several years in the making and benefited from extensive surveillance by David Headley. 8 At one meeting, the men examined nautical charts and discussed various landing options. 

The naval frogman directed Headley to explore the position of Indian naval vessels in order to 

avoid a gunfight before entering Indian waters, which Headley did upon his trip to Mumbai. 

Ibid. 9Transnational operatives were used to set up the VoIP, which also was intended to make 

it more difficult to trace. 

administered Kashmir, Mansehra, and elsewhere in Pakistan. As LeT has deepened 

its collaboration with other outfits, cross-pollination among trainers and trainees 

has occurred. At the same time, LeT does not enjoy historically strong ties with 

other groups in the region and actually suffers from a deficit of trust with some of 

them. This should not discount the possibility that LeT trainers or camps might be 

used to prepare militants from another group for attacks against the United States. 

However, the focus here is on the group’s capabilities to plan, prepare, and execute 

a unilateral terrorist attack. 

LeT’s own training traditionally begins with the Daura-e-Suffa, which focuses on 

imbuing religious principles, including the obligatory nature of jihad, as well as 

proselytizing. It lasts approximately 3 weeks, is often conducted at the group’s compound in Muridke and includes lectures by senior leaders. This is followed by the 

Daura-e-Aama, which consists of lectures, additional religious indoctrination and 

prayer, physical training, and some introductory weapons drills. It also lasts about 

3 weeks and is typically conducted in Pakistan-administered Kashmir. A small number of those who go through the Daura-e-Suffa and Daura-e-Aama advance to the 

Daura-e-Khasa, which takes place at a higher elevation in Mansehra. This lasts approximately 2 to 3 months and includes physical training, guerrilla warfare tactics, 

survival techniques, firing different types of light weapons, and instruction on the 

use of hand grenades, rocket launchers, and mortars. These time frames are not 

fixed and militants may train for considerably longer as well as skipping the initial 

Daura-e-Suffa and Daura-e-Amma in some instances.5

LeT also runs a bevy of specialized programs providing instruction on a range of 

skills. In addition to maritime training for those who operate at sea and commando 

training for individuals who will undertake fidayeen attacks, these include instruction on counter-intelligence, IED construction, sabotage and surveillance, conducting 

reconnaissance, communicating in code, and the use of sophisticated communication 

technologies.6 The focus on support activities such as reconnaissance and communication is crucial to LeT’s capability to execute complex operations abroad, as evidenced by the 2008 Mumbai attacks.7

Attack Planning Capabilities 

LeT is a patient organization, known to perform surveillance of targets for the 

purpose of creating target packages that it could use in the future. For example, 

the 2008 Mumbai attacks began with surveillance of the Taj Mahal Hotel conducted 

2 years prior and with no immediate attack in mind. David Headley, the PakistaniAmerican who undertook reconnaissance for the attacks, made multiple trips to 

Mumbai, conducting extensive surveillance of multiple targets. This included taking 

photographs and making video recordings. He was taught how to use a GPS and 

plotted out the future terrorists’ movements around Mumbai, bringing that GPS 

with the coordinates back to Pakistan so the attackers could practice. LeT’s close 

relationship with the Pakistani military enabled it to pull in a member of the navy 

to help plan the maritime insertion.8 The final operation also revealed several smart 

tactical decisions. Splitting the attackers into small teams made it more difficult to 

intercept all of them and also created the sense of a larger attack force. Exploding 

IED’s away from the attack sites contributed to the confusion. 

LeT used Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) during the Mumbai attacks and this 

made it more difficult (though clearly not impossible) to intercept its communications.9 According to Indian officials, LeT operatives based there now communicate 

almost exclusively with their handlers in Pakistan via VoIP or other technological 

means that are difficult to monitor. Notably, the group historically has focused significant resources on building up its technological capabilities, including sending 

members for graduate work in the field of Information Technology. This raises questions about LeT’s capability to engage in clandestine communications with 
31 

10The group reportedly purchased para-gliders and commissioned an expert in their use to 

train a small cadre of members. ‘‘Chinese training LeT men in paragliding: Abu Jundal,’’ DNA 

India, July 3, 2012. 11Tankel, Storming the World Stage, pp. 96–102, 164–167. 12The group is active through its above-ground organization, JuD, on Twitter and Facebook. 

JuD previously had a youtube page that featured various LeT attacks in India and Pakistan. 13For example, activists in Paris associated with the group are suspected of providing some 

logistical support to the ‘‘shoebomber’’ Richard Reid. LeT operatives in the United Kingdom are 

also suspected of providing money to those involved in the 2006 attempt to bomb transatlantic 

flights from the United Kingdom using liquid explosives. Regarding assistance to Richard Reid 

see, Judgment in Republic of France vs. Rama et. al., Magistrates’ Court of Paris, June 16, 2005. 

Regarding the 2006 bomb plot see, Dexter Filkins and Souad Mekhennet, ‘‘Pakistani Charity 

Under Scrutiny In Financing of Airline Bomb Plot,’’ New York Times, Aug. 13, 2006. Joshua 

Partlow and Kamran Khan, ‘‘Charity Funds Said to Provide Clues to Alleged Terrorist Plot,’’ 

Washington Post, Aug. 15, 2006. Henry Chu and Sebastian Rotella, ‘‘Three Britons convicted of 

plot to blow up planes,’’ Los Angeles Times, Sept. 8, 2009. John Burns, ‘‘3 Sentenced in London 

for Airline Plot,’’ New York Times, July 12, 2010. 14Sajid Mir arranged for members of the group’s network in Paris to provide money for the 

trip. Australian security officials said the men intended to select a suitable target and purchase 

the chemicals necessary to build a large bomb, though it remains unclear whether they intended 

to assemble it or LeT was planning to deploy another foreign explosives expert for that purpose. 

Regarding the role of LeT’s French networks see, Jean-Louise Bruguie`re, Ce que je n’ai pas pu 

dire (Paris: Robert Laffont, 2009), pp. 469–472. ‘‘Committal Hearing of Faheem Khalid Lodhi,’’ 

Downing Centre Local Court, Sydney, Australia, Dec. 17, 2004. Natasha Wallace, ‘‘Court Battle 

Over Secret Evidence,’’ Sydney Morning Herald, Dec. 18, 2004. Judgment in ‘‘Republic of France 

vs. Rama, et. al.’’ Appeal Judgment in ‘‘Fahim Khalid Lodhi vs. Regina,’’ New South Wales 

Court of Criminal Appeal, Dec. 20, 2007. ‘‘Frenchman Played ‘Major’ Role in Australia Terror 

Plot, Court Hears,’’ Agence France-Presse, Feb. 8, 2007. Information regarding activities in Australia from Australian security officials said the two men intended to select a suitable target 

and purchase the chemicals necessary to build a large bomb, though it remains unclear whether 

they intended to assemble it or LeT was planning to deploy another foreign explosives expert 

for that purpose. Interview with former member of the Australian security services. Appeal 

Judgment in ‘‘Fahim Khalid Lodhi vs. Regina.’’ Martin Chulov, Australian Jihad: The Battle 

Against Terrorism from Within and Without, (Sydney: Pan Macmillan, 2006), p. 143. Liz Jackson, ‘‘Program Transcript: Willie Brigitte,’’ ABC, Feb. 9, 2004. 

transnational operatives. Its significant financial assets likely enable the group to 

invest in sophisticated programs and to experiment with various technologies.10

Transnational Networks 

LeT’s transnational networks stretch across South Asia, the Gulf, and into Europe 

and North America. These are used primarily for fundraising and to support its regional operations, including attacks against India. However, LeT operatives have 

been known to operate in a number of European countries that participate in the 

Visa Waiver Program.11 Thus, it is believed to be capable of talent-spotting, recruiting, and vetting radicalized Westerners. LeT’s use of social media geared toward 

English-speaking audiences suggest the group also is attempting to position itself 

as a destination of choice for Westerners, especially members of the Pakistani diaspora in the United States and Europe, interested in associating with jihadist 

groups.12

It must be noted that LeT historically has used Western operatives to support its 

own operations in South Asia. Nevertheless, networks or operatives used for support 

purposes can be re-directed to support terrorist attacks. There are several notable 

examples of LeT foreign operatives suspected of supporting al-Qaeda-led attacks, 

though it is unclear whether the Pakistan-based LeT leadership sanctioned these 

activities.13 The one example of the group using one of its operatives to launch an 

attack against a Western country occurred in 2002–2003. Sajid Mir, who is responsible for managing LeT’s overseas operatives and oversaw the planning and execution of the 2008 Mumbai attacks, directed a French convert to Islam based in Paris 

to travel to Australia, where he was to assist an LeT-trained local to execute a terrorist attack.14 It is unclear from the open source whether the LeT-trained local in 

Australia was directed to execute the attack by LeT leaders or if he germinated the 

idea and reached out to the organization for assistance. If the latter, it is also not 

clear if the entire LeT leadership sanctioned deploying the Paris-based operative to 

assist or if Sajid Mir was acting independently or on behalf of a faction within the 

group. Thus, the operation illustrates not only LeT’s capacity to project power far 

beyond South Asia, but also the difficulty of determining the dynamics behind the 

decision to do so. 
32 

15 It claims to have trained recruits during the 1990s for combat in Afghanistan, BosniaHerzegovina, Chechnya, Kosovo, the southern Philippines, and, of course, Indian-administered 

Kashmir. MDI website, ‘‘A Brief Introduction to the Markaz and the Group X,’’ undated. 16 Chulov, Australian Jihad, p. 151. Mariam Abou Zahab, ‘‘Salafism in Pakistan: The Ahl-e 

Hadith Movement,’’ in Global Salafism: Islam’s New Religious Movement, ed. Roel Meijer (London: Hurst, 2009),p. 140. Amir Mir, The True Face of Jehadists (Lahore: Mashal Press, 2004), 

p. 70. Josh Meyer, ‘‘Extremist group works in the open in Pakistan,’’ LA Times 18 Dec. 2007. 17 Regarding the Indian jihadist movement see, Stephen Tankel, The Indian Jihadist Movement: Evolution and Dynamics, Washington, DC: National Defense University, forthcoming (provisional title). 18 Indictment in ‘‘United States vs. Randall Todd Royer,’’ The United States District Court for 

the Eastern-District of Virginia, Alexandria Division June 2003. 19Memorandum Opinion in ‘‘United States vs. Masoud Khan et al.,’’ The United States District Court for the Eastern-District of Virginia, Alexandria Division 4 March 2004. 20 United States Attorney’s Office Eastern District of Virginia, ‘‘Virginia Jihad Member Convicted of Perjury, Obstruction, ’’ Feb. 5, 2007. 21 United States Attorney’s Office Northern District of Georgia, ‘‘Terrorism Defendants Sentenced: Ehsanul Islam Sadequee Receives 17 Years in Prison; Co-defendant Syed Haris Ahmed 

Receives 13 Years,’’ Dec. 14, 2009. 22 Indictment in ‘‘United States of America vs. Syed Haris Ahmed and Ehsanul Islam 

Sadequee,’’ United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia, July 19, 2006. 23 Ibid. 24Tankel, Storming the World Stage, p. 163. 

Training Westerners 

Pakistanis constitute the majority of those trained in LeT camps, but the group 

has a history of training foreigners too.15 After the U.S. counterattack against Afghanistan destroyed the training infrastructure there, LeT stepped in to train local 

militants as well as foreigners who pre-9/11 would have trained in al-Qaeda camps, 

but now were looking for other avenues of instruction.16 Since the mid-1990s, LeT 

has provided training to Indian Muslims for attacks against their own country, a 

practice that continues today. Some of these men have executed attacks on LeT’s 

behalf, providing the group with plausible deniability, while others have proffered 

logistical support to Pakistani members of LeT who infiltrated India to carry out 

operations. Still others are associated with various indigenous jihadist networks, 

most notably the Indian Mujahideen, or have settled into life in India, essentially 

becoming sleeper agents the authorities fear could be activated at another time.17

LeT has long had a policy of training Westerners. The majority of them are members of the Pakistani and Kashmir diasporas in the United Kingdom, but the group 

has been training Americans since 2000.18 The first Americans known to have 

trained with LeT were from Virginia and were part of a coterie of would-be jihadists 

that ultimately became known as the Virginia Jihad Network. Sajid Mir, the commander in charge of overseas operatives, arranged for several of them to provide assistance to a British LeT operative who traveled to the United States on multiple 

occasions from 2002–2003 to procure military gear for the group. Although the men 

clearly were used in a support capacity, one concern about such networks is that 

their purpose can change over time. Indeed, Sajid Mir also asked two of the trainees 

to undertake missions involving information gathering as well as the dissemination 

of propaganda.19 One of them told the FBI in 2004 that he was asked specifically 

to perform surveillance on a chemical plant in Maryland.20 Precisely what LeT or 

elements within it planned to do with this information is unknown, though they 

clearly were interested in both surveillance and expanding the group’s networks in 

the United States. 

In 2005, two men from Atlanta Georgia with ties to the ‘‘Toronto 18’’ as well as 

to a British Pakistani who acted as a talent spotter for LeT identified possible targets for a terrorist attack in the United States.21 A month later the duo traveled 

to Washington, DC, where they shot video recordings of possible targets, including 

the U.S. Capitol; the headquarters building of the World Bank; the Masonic Temple 

in Alexandria, Virginia; and a group of large fuel storage tanks near a highway in 

northern Virginia.22 One of the men traveled to Pakistan later that year intending 

to study in a madrasa and then train with LeT.23 He arrived the week after the 

London Underground bombings that occurred on July 7 and was unable to realize 

his ambitions, possibly owing to the heightened security environment in Pakistan 

where two of the London bombers had trained. Notably, at least one of them is believed to have spent a night at Muridke, though there is no open-source evidence 

suggesting LeT had any direct involvement in the 7/7 attacks.24

LeT has trained others living in America since then, none more famous than 

Daood Gilani, who took the name David Coleman Headley in 2006 to help facilitate 

his reconnaissance trips in Mumbai and elsewhere for the group. He joined LeT in 

February 2002, participating in the Daura-e-Suffa that month. In August 2002 he 
33 

25Stephen Tankel, ‘‘Lashkar-e-Taiba’s American Connections,’’ Foreign Policy, Sept. 6, 2011. 26 Author interview with former Lashkar-e-Taiba member, Jan. 2009 in Pakistan. 

went through the Daura-e-Aama and then in April 2003 the Daura-e-Khasa, LeT’s 

3-month guerrilla warfare training program. More specialized trainings followed, 

and in 2006 he began conducting reconnaissance in India that ultimately led to the 

2008 Mumbai attacks. Headley was trained and handled jointly by LeT and Pakistani intelligence, and used in a support capacity. However, without his contributions in terms of reconnaissance, it is unlikely the 2008 Mumbai attacks would have 

been as operationally successful. Notably, despite his access to America and Americans, LeT used Headley overwhelming for operations against India. (Headley’s involvement in an aborted plot against Denmark is discussed below.) 

Given the benefits Headley provided to the group, it is reasonable to assume LeT 

may have increased its efforts to recruit and train other Westerners or to find ways 

for Pakistani members to acquire citizenship or residency in Western countries. For 

example, in September 2011, the Federal Bureau of Investigation arrested Jubair 

Ahmad, a 24-year-old Pakistani immigrant living in Woodbridge, Virginia. Ahmed 

received religious training from LeT as a teenager, and later attended its basic 

training camp while living in Pakistan, before entering the United States in 2007 

with other members of his family. After moving to the United States he provided 

material support to LeT, producing and distributing propaganda.25

As should be clear, LeT has all of the tools necessary to strike the homeland. The 

group’s instructors are very proficient for a non-state actor, it has developed an 

array of sophisticated training programs and it enjoys significantly more freedom 

to conduct those programs than other groups in the region. LeT’s transnational networks enable it to identify and vet possible Western recruits, including Americans 

or citizens from visa waiver countries in Europe. The group also has the operational 

space as well as the organizational wherewithal to build relationships in the Pakistani diaspora community. A cautious and calculating organization, LeT primarily 

has used its overseas operatives to support operations in South Asia. The danger 

of LeT’s training apparatus and transnational networks, however, is that they can 

be redirected toward international attacks. As the 2008 Mumbai attacks demonstrated, given enough time and space to plan, LeT is capable of inflicting significant and spectacular damage once it decides to do so. 

INTENT TO LAUNCH AN LET-LEAD ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES

LeT is a pan-Islamist group committed to defending the umma and avenging what 

it perceives to be the oppression of or violence against Muslims. The U.S. invasions 

of Afghanistan and Iraq as well as the use of unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) to 

launch missile strikes in Pakistan and elsewhere make it an obvious ideological target. India remains the group’s main enemy and if the group could only attack one 

country then that likely would remain its target, but LeT is a robust-enough organization to launch attacks against multiple countries. And it added America to its enemies list long ago. LeT has killed U.S. citizens in Mumbai in 2008, though they 

were not the main targets of the attack. The group has also deployed fighters to 

Afghanistan, where they directly confront U.S. forces, and previously to Iraq. Yet 

there is no evidence LeT has ever attempted an attack against the U.S. homeland, 

despite access to some of its citizens and residents. So what’s stopping it? 

LeT’s leadership retains an element of nationalism that is distinctly at odds with 

al-Qaeda and still finds common ground, as it has since the 1990s, with elements 

in the Pakistani military and ISI. LeT and its backers remain co-dependent: Each 

afraid of the repercussions that might stem from splitting with the other. Furthermore, unlike al-Qaeda Central, which confronts a challenging security environment, 

LeT controls a robust social welfare infrastructure and its leaders value the influence that comes with it. In the 1990s the group needed the state to build up its 

infrastructure, whereas now it is reliant on the state not to tear it down. It is worth 

highlighting the leadership’s devotion to dawa through the delivering of social services and the fact that protecting its domestic infrastructure has at times limited its 

military adventurism. This leadership operates openly in Pakistan’s settled areas, 

not from a hidden redoubt. 

This freedom of movement carries with it a number of benefits, but also serves 

as another leverage point that can be used to constrain LeT’s activity. As a result, 

significant elements within the group are still ‘‘tamed by the ISI’’ as one former 

member observed.26 Pakistan’s security services are believed to use this and other 

means of leverage to put pressure on LeT to refrain from striking Western interests 

abroad. Unless the Pakistani security establishment wants a showdown with the 

United States, this is unlikely to change. At the same time, cracking down on LeT 
34 

27 ‘‘Testimony of David Coleman Headley to the Indian National Investigative Agency.’’ 28David Headley’s testimony supports this contention. See, Ibid. 29Sebastian Rotella, ‘‘Witness: Pakistani Intel Officer Ordered Hit on Mumbai Jews,’’ 

ProPublica, May 24, 2011. 30Superceding Indictment in ‘‘United States of America vs. Ilyas Kashmiri, Abdur Rehman 

Hashim Syed [a/k/a ‘Major Abdur Rehman,’ a/k/a ‘Pasha’], David Coleman Headley [a/k/a ‘Daood 

Gilani’], Tahawwur Hussain Rana.’’ ‘‘Testimony of David Coleman Headley to the Indian National Investigative Agency.’’ 31 Ahmad Shuja Pasha became Director General of the ISI in October 2008, a month after the 

Mumbai attacks were originally scheduled to take place. He reportedly visited LeT’s Operational 

Commander, Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi, in jail following the latter’s detention in the wake of the 

attacks in order to ‘‘understand the Mumbai attack conspiracy.’’ ‘‘Testimony of David Coleman 

Headley to the Indian National Investigative Agency.’’ 32 Ibid. 33Plea Agreement in ‘‘United States vs. David Coleman Headley [a/k/a ‘Daood Gilani’],’’ The 

United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Eastern Division, Mar. 18, 

2010. 

is not the top U.S. demand made on Pakistan. The group does not want that to 

change, nor does it wish to invite greater unilateral American action against it. 

In short, LeT’s restraint has more to do with strategic calculation than ideological 

inclination. If Pakistan were to crack down sincerely on LeT, then the group’s costbenefit calculus could change. However, key LeT leaders also might authorize a 

strike against the United States if they believed the group could avoid retribution 

or that it could withstand the costs and that these were outweighed by the benefits. 

It is also important to note LeT’s history of using false names to claim its attacks 

and, in some instances, of training radicalized actors indigenous to their target 

country to carry them out. In other words, unlike al-Qaeda, the group is likely to 

do everything possible to hide its hand in any attack on the American homeland. 

It is impossible to predict with certainty whether the day will come when LeT 

changes its calculus or, if so, what the tipping point might be. A number of variables 

could inform such a shift. Two of the most important are inter-related: ISI situational awareness of and influence on LeT; and organizational dynamics within LeT. 

ISI Situational Awareness and Influence 

The level of Pakistani control over LeT is hotly debated and it is arguably more 

useful to think in terms of situational awareness and influence. The ISI reportedly 

retains a liaison relationship with LeT, meaning that there are designated gobetweens, with senior leaders also having specific handlers.27 Local interlocutors in 

Pakistan, including one former and one current LeT member both of mid-rank, assert that the security services have informants within the organization and also engage in other forms of intelligence collection regarding its activities.28 This provides 

a significant level of situational awareness. However, given the uncertainties associated with most principal-agent relationships of this nature, it is also reasonable to 

assume that LeT has taken countermeasures to enable some clandestine activities. 

In terms of influence and guidance, the ISI leadership generally provides descriptive 

rather than detailed instruction. This means it sets broad guidelines and leaves implementation up to line-level ISI officers and, in some cases, LeT militants themselves. 

According to David Headley, his handler, known to him as Major Iqbal, was aware 

of all the targets chosen for the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Moreover, Major Iqbal reportedly was the person who recommended LeT target the Chabbad House, believing 

(wrongly) that it was a front for the Israeli Mossad.29 Given the nature of relationships between LeT leaders and the ISI, it is reasonable to assume others were also 

aware of the operational details. This is reinforced by the fact that at times Headley 

met with Iqbal to brief him on information, which the latter already had.30 It is unclear whether the ISI leadership was aware of the scope and scale of the attacks. 

If not, this may have resulted from LeT’s handlers not passing information all the 

way up the chain of command or from the turnover that was taking place in the 

ISI at the time.31 In October 2008, 1 month before the Mumbai attacks, LeT began 

plotting a terrorist attack in Denmark. Major Iqbal was present for the initial discussions that took place between Sajid Mir and David Headley.32 Several months 

later, in the wake of the fallout from the 2008 Mumbai attacks, Sajid postponed the 

operation indefinitely as a result of what he told Headley was ISI pressure to do 

so.33

In summation, regardless of what the ISI leadership may or may not have known 

about Mumbai, from LeT’s perspective it was a sanctioned operation. And when the 

group allegedly was told to put an attack against a Western country on hold, its 

leaders apparently submitted. This suggests a reasonably high level of ISI situational awareness and influence. Yet with the 2014 drawdown of U.S. and Coalition 
35 

34 ‘‘Testimony of David Coleman Headley to the Indian National Investigative Agency.’’ 

forces from Afghanistan, there is cause for concern about how this might impact the 

LeT-ISI relationship. 

First, LeT is likely to attempt to keep a small presence in Northeast Afghanistan, 

where its members have worked to carve out territory. If it succeeds, then access 

to safe haven in Afghanistan for LeT conceivably could reduce ISI situational awareness of what its members there are doing. At the very least, it could increase plausible deniability for LeT and, thus, for the Pakistani state itself. Each could conceivably claim they did not sanction plots orchestrated from across the border, even if 

planned in Pakistan, with the result being to heighten the likelihood such attacks 

might occur. 

Second, LeT is likely to agitate for regenerating the jihad directly against India, 

both in the form of terrorist attacks against the mainland and increased activity in 

India-administered Kashmir. The latter has been torpid since the late 2000s. Several LeT-lead attacks there this year suggest attempts to regenerate the conflict, but 

it is highly unlikely to succeed in spurring violence on the order of magnitude of 

that which existed before the conflict began to ebb. If the Pakistani security establishment is not deemed supportive enough of these efforts and they fail to bear fruit, 

this could heighten the chance that LeT or factions within it undertake 

unsanctioned attacks either against India or Western targets. 

Third, if the situation in Pakistan continues to deteriorate, key LeT leaders could 

make the determination that the security establishment is in no position to severely 

punish the group or those individuals in it who are considered essential to keeping 

the rank-and-file in line. They may also assume—rightly or wrongly—that as the 

American presence in the region shrinks, Washington will have less leverage over 

Pakistan and thus fewer options for responding to an attack against the U.S. homeland. 

Hence, these leaders could surmise that they, as individuals, and the group collectively were well-enough positioned to withstand the consequences of an attack 

against the United States. At the same time, a deterioration of the situation in 

Pakistan could mean that those anti-state jihadist groups with which LeT competes 

were going from strength to strength. Thus, attacking the U.S. homeland could 

bring significant prestige within the jihadist universe at a time when some LeT 

leaders felt the group needed a win. Such a decision would be inextricably linked 

to dynamics within the organization, discussed below. 

Organizational Dynamics 

LeT remains more coherent than most groups in Pakistan, but internal tensions 

exist regarding where the group should focus its energies and how close it should 

remain to the state. The most obvious point of tension concerns whether to remain 

regionally focused (i.e. primarily fighting against India and in Afghanistan) or to expand the group’s involvement in the global jihad. David Headley’s account suggests 

there was debate over the decision to include targets such as the Chabbad House 

for the Mumbai attacks.34 Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi, the Operational Commander of 

LeT, and Sajid Mir, the man responsible for overseeing transnational operatives, 

were in favor and clearly won the day. In short, two of the group’s most important 

militant leaders promoted expanding LeT’s target set. 

Even those LeT leaders who favor a growing involvement in the global jihad 

against America do not believe this should come at the expense of war against 

India. However, this policy of attempting to have it both ways opens the group up 

to additional factionalism, which could be exacerbated if LeT is unable to regenerate 

its jihad against India post-2014 or it were to lose one or several of its founding 

members. LeT’s involvement in Afghanistan has been a formative experience for 

some of those who comprise the next generation and possibly a transformative experience for some of the current crop of leaders. Just as more than 2 decades spent 

waging war against India hallowed that cause, almost 10 years spent fighting 

against U.S. forces in Afghanistan may have influenced the preference structure for 

some of the group’s members. The rise of new leaders who cut their teeth in the 

post-9/11 world could have important implications in terms of LeT’s future behavior. 

Another important point of tension concerns the degree to which LeT should sublimate its jihadist impulses in order to pursue a reformist agenda via its aboveground infrastructure. LeT and JuD are two sides of the same coin, but they also 

represent different sets of priorities. Hafiz Saeed may lead a militant organization, 

but he does so from his position as a cleric who lives comfortably in Lahore and 

values spreading his interpretation of the Ahl-e-Hadith faith and promoting 

reformism in Pakistan. Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi is a militant’s militant. He has 

fought in Afghanistan and Indian-administered Kashmir, lost a son to jihad, and is 
36 

35For example, after LeT acceded to ISI demands to delay the Danish plot, David Headley 

began working with al-Qaeda to execute the operation. 36See for example, Amir Mir, ‘‘Lahore episode further blemishes Punjab govt’s record,’’ The 

News, Mar. 11, 2013. Tankel, Storming the World Stage, p. 202. 37See, for example, Tankel, Storming the World Stage, pp. 130–131. 38The two countries also launched a Homeland Security Dialogue Ministerial in May 2011. 

currently on trial for his role in the 2008 Mumbai attacks. It is reasonable to assess 

that he is more committed to militancy than missionary outreach. Notably, these 

debates are about more than just ideological preferences. They are also about power 

within the organization. 

Additional variables could inform whether these tensions inflame or abate, as well 

as how that process impacts LeT’s behavior. First, fighting in Afghanistan has not 

only provided an opportunity to confront U.S. forces directly, but also necessitated 

collaboration with an array of other militant actors including al-Qaeda. This has the 

potential to create conditions in which other actors with more extreme agendas can 

influence LeT members. It also means the group is competing with those other actors for credibility.35 Second, and related, LeT’s close ties to the Pakistani state 

open up its leaders to criticism from the rank-and-file as well as other militant 

groups seeking to poach some of its members. Although organizationally opposed to 

attacks in Pakistan, it is a myth that no LeT member has ever been involved in 

violence there. Some occasionally get out of line.36 Others have left to join other militant groups engaged in violence against the state.37 The desire to reset the narrative that the group is fighting the ISI’s jihad and not Allah’s jihad, which striking 

the United States would help to do, is unlikely to change LeT’s calculus on its own. 

Nor should one expect the group to cross the strategic Rubicon and launch a unilateral attack against the U.S. homeland out of concern that some members, no matter 

how valuable, are breaking away. However, these could be among a number of factors that influence LeT leaders or factions within the group when they are considering whether or not to expand the group’s operational footprint. 

RECOMMENDATIONS

Any attempt made to disarm and demobilize LeT without Pakistani support, specifically from the military and ISI, is destined to fail. Without host country support, 

the United States would have to employ direct military action to target LeT’s infrastructure, which is based in the settled areas of Pakistan near to population centers. 

Similarly, U.S. efforts to convince the Pakistani security establishment to break 

with its historical policy of supporting irregular outfits in general or LeT specifically 

are also unlikely to succeed in the short term. Nevertheless, there are steps the 

United States can continue to take to degrade LeT and areas where it could increase 

its efforts. 

First, barring a resurgent al-Qaeda, the draw-down of U.S. forces from Afghanistan could create space for Washington to focus more on LeT. Resource allocation 

should be realigned away from al-Qaeda Central and Afghan-centric militants, especially intelligence officers and analysts whose expertise will be essential for identifying emerging and evolving jihadist threats from LeT and other regional actors. 

This does not mean flooding Pakistan with clandestine officers focused on LeT. The 

Raymond Davis episode highlighted the dangers inherent in such activities. Rather, 

the United States could augment collection efforts in LeT’s near abroad as well as 

increase analytical capacity further for intelligence collected. This might include 

commissioning a reassessment of LeT’s historical involvement in international attacks in light of new information that has surely been gathered since the intelligence community enhanced its focus on the group post-Mumbai. Even this seemingly minor effort, could reveal important lessons about LeT’s calculus at critical 

times in its evolution. Additionally, LeT has had the same leaders since the group 

was founded and these men are not getting any younger. It would be worthwhile 

to explore the scenarios that might eventuate were a battle for succession to occur. 

Finally, the United States should develop a response plan in the event of a LeTlead attack against the homeland that includes a mix of inducements, rewards, retributive measures, and unilateral actions vis-a ́-vis Pakistan. The United States 

should be prepared for a phased escalation in the event of Pakistani reticence and 

should develop oversight mechanisms to ensure Pakistan keeps any commitments 

it makes. 

Second, the United States should continue to pursue actions necessary to degrade 

LeT’s international networks and contain its operations outside Pakistan. The U.S.- 

India Joint Working Group on Counterterrorism is more than a decade old, but 

counterterrorism cooperation between the two countries really accelerated immediately after the 2008 Mumbai attacks.38 However, engagement on counterterrorism 
37 

39 U.S. intelligence is believed to have played an important role in the capture and hand-over 

of at least one of the men. Stephen Tankel, ‘‘Sharing is Caring: Containing terrorism in South 

Asia,’’ Foreign Policy, June 20, 2012. 40While the United States should not abandon the option of drone strikes, it should use them 

in coordination with U.S. diplomats attuned to their impact on the broader political and security 

environment. 

has since leveled off. Regenerating this engagement and enhancing counter-terrorism cooperation is in both countries’ interest, and efforts to do so should be supported. In the last several years, the United States, India, and the United Kingdom 

all took steps to facilitate counterterrorism efforts in Bangladesh. As a result, the 

LeT presence is reduced, and maintaining vigilance on that front remains important. The Persian Gulf is still fertile soil in terms of a support base for South Asian 

militancy. U.S. counterterrorism efforts vis-a ́-vis the Gulf historically focused primarily on terrorist threat financing. The arrest and deportation by Saudi Arabia of 

two Indian LeT operatives suggests a greater focus has been given to monitoring 

and infiltrating Gulf-based networks that could be used to recruit operatives or provide logistical support for terrorist attacks.39 The Gulf has not suddenly become a 

no-go area for LeT militants, but reducing their confidence that it is a guaranteed 

safe space for operations could have an impact on how militants conduct activities 

there. The United States should continue to press Gulf allies, especially Saudi Arabia, on these issues and to encourage their cooperation on counterterrorism efforts 

with India. Finally, the United States is already engaging in counterterrorism cooperation and intelligence sharing vis-a ́-vis LeT with allies in Europe. Some Western allies place a higher premium on these efforts than others, suggesting there is 

room for improvement. 

Third, the LeT threat must be taken seriously, but should not drive U.S. policy 

toward Pakistan. At the same time, Washington’s objectives vis-a ́-vis Pakistan need 

to expand. When tough choices have had to be made, Washington’s priority has been 

killing al-Qaeda and countering Pakistan-based insurgents fighting in Afghanistan. 

The 2014 draw-down in Afghanistan and success degrading al-Qaeda Central create 

an opportunity to elevate the priority given to LeT. They also demand revising the 

U.S. counterterrorism architecture in South Asia in line with the decreasing threat 

from al-Qaeda and evolving threats from regional actors like LeT against which unilateral direct action has less utility.40 Any policies regarding LeT or counterterrorism more broadly must nest within a wider approach geared toward encouraging, 

enabling, and compelling Pakistan to address its myriad infirmities. Such an approach includes, but is not limited to, redressing the current civil-military imbalance 

and creating conditions for action against militancy that could bear fruit down the 

road. In the short term, this means gearing an overall approach toward maintaining 

a level of engagement and influence that allows Washington to execute transactions 

on narrow security issues, exploit opportunities to reinforce positive structural 

change within Pakistan when possible, and remain prepared to engage in crisis 

management should the need arise. 

Laying the groundwork for future action against LeT is complicated and does not 

promise satisfaction. However, Washington is unlikely to have success attempting 

to force strategic steps Pakistan is not yet ready or able to take. Given the ground 

reality, the United States should remain focused on containing LeT in the short 

term, but also mindful of opportunities that can be exploited to weaken it or separate the group from its support base. This means continuing to signal to the Pakistani security establishment the severe repercussions that would result were LeT, 

or elements within it, to attack the homeland. Additionally, Washington should increase pressure on Pakistan to identify, arrest, and extradite any Westerners training or attempting to train with LeT. While being mindful of the need to protect 

sources and methods of intelligence collection, U.S. officials should seize opportunities to enlighten their counterparts in Pakistan about the involvement of any current or former LeT militants in anti-state violence as well as about activities the 

group attempts to keep hidden from the ISI. The United States should also explore 

the viability and potential consequences of efforts to exploit aforementioned fissures 

within the group. Finally, the United States should prepare for the possibility, albeit 

unlikely in the near-term, that Pakistan attempts to mainstream LeT or elements 

of it. This includes exploring how the United States might assist, overtly or covertly 

in such an enterprise, the costs and benefits of doing so, and the possible outcomes 

that might eventuate. 

LeT is clearly capable of posing a threat to the United States, but one that must 

be kept in perspective. The group is not the proverbial shark in the water that must 

keep moving in order not to die. It has practiced a significant degree of strategic 

restraint given its capabilities, suggesting it can be deterred. This is not cause for 
38 

indifference. LeT is also patient organization and one for which the current strategic 

calculus is not fixed indefinitely. The United States must remain attentive to the 

evolving threat and vigilant in taking steps to degrade the group. 

Mr. KING. Thank you. Dr. Tankel. 

Our next witness, Dr. Jonah Blank is a senior political scientist 

at the RAND Corporation, and by the way Dr. Tankel and Dr. 

Blank are affiliated with RAND. If you would say hello to Brian 

Jenkins and thank him for the work that he has done and the assistance he has given us over the years. Prior to joining the RAND 

Corporation, Dr. Blank served as policy director for the South and 

Southeast Asia on the staff of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from 1999 to 2011. So he understands Capitol Hill, for better or worse. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. KING. Before entering Government service, he served as senior editor and foreign correspondent for U.S. News and World Report where he reported from Indonesia, India, Nepal, and Pakistan. 

Dr. Blank began his career in Japan as a finance editor for Tokyo’s 

Ashai Evening News and has been a reporter for Fortune Magazine. He has written for multiple publications including Foreign Affairs, The New Yorker, and The Washington Post. 

Dr. Blank, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Or for as long as 

you take. 

STATEMENT OF JONAH BLANK, PH.D., SENIOR POLITICAL 

ANALYST, THE RAND CORPORATION 

Mr. BLANK. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Should note 

that the part of my background that might be most relevant here 

today is my background as an anthropologist as well as a, sort of 

a student of, not only India but of wider South Asia. 

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, Members of the committee, 

it is an honor to appear before you here today. This hearing addresses two significant threats; Lashkar-e-Taiba and the potential 

for a Mumbai-style attack here in the United States. Both threats 

deserve very serious attention, but their linkage is indirect. 

Lashkar is primarily a threat abroad in my judgment, while 

there is a very real threat of a Mumbai-type attack here. The connection rests more in Lashkar’s training and recruitment, than its 

direct action. So to be clear, I consider Lashkar-e-Taiba a very serious threat to the United States, but the threat to the homeland I 

think rests primarily in its training and its recruitment. 

The Mumbai attack struck very close to home for me personally. 

During much of my ethnographic field work in India, I lived just 

a few blocks from the attack sites. One of the victims was a good 

friend of mine, a man without whom I could not have conducted 

my doctoral research. 

He was an elderly Muslim cleric, easily identifiable as such by 

his white beard and skull cap, but the gunman shot him down at 

close range. My friend survived the attack, but 166 others, including 6 Americans, were not as lucky. 

I wish I could say this cannot happen here, but I am afraid it 

can. Lashkar-e-Taiba was responsible for the Mumbai attacks, but 

the next Mumbai, that is, an attack dramatic enough to install 

widespread terror even without weapons of mass destruction or a 
39 

death toll in the thousands, that might be thought of as Boston 

squared. It wouldn’t require the resources of Lashkar-e-Taiba or of 

al-Qaeda in order to achieve its aims, as Chief Pfeifer has so ably 

noted. 

Where does the Lashkar threat to the United States lie? First, 

it is one of the most capable and experienced terrorist groups in 

the world, and a de facto affiliate of al-Qaeda. Moreover, as the 

Chairman has rightly noted, Lashkar has long enjoyed support 

from elements of the Pakistani military and its spy service, ISI. 

Second, Lashkar has killed American citizens before, both in 

India and Afghanistan, and is likely to do so in the future. Third, 

Lashkar has a unique potential to precipitate a major war, possibly 

a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan. 

Fourth and perhaps most dangerous from a homeland perspective, Lashkar remains a factory churning out violent extremists. 

Even if the group’s central command refrains from launching attacks in the United States, its alumni network and splinter cells 

may not show such restraint. 

So why would Lashkar refrain from hitting the homeland? For 

the very same reason that it remains such a threat in South Asia. 

Its complex relationship with Pakistan’s military. ISI has drawn a 

red line prohibiting Lashkar from attacks in the United States. As 

all mutual fund investors know, past performance is no guarantee 

of future results. But so far at least, that ban has stood. 

If Lashkar’s threat—if Lashkar abides by its red lines, do we 

have to worry about a Mumbai-style attack in America? Yes we do, 

just not at least for now from Lashkar. What made Mumbai so 

shocking was not its body count or the fact that the attackers had 

infiltrated from abroad. 

By 2008, Mumbai had suffered at least seven major attacks in 

the prior decade-and-a-half, all of them with suspected links to 

Pakistan and two with significantly higher levels of fatality. A key 

difference between this attack and prior results was psychological 

impact. 

Two years earlier, serial railway blasts killed 209 victims, but 

they lasted a total of 11 minutes. The 2008 shootings took 43 fewer 

lives than these railway blasts, but they kept the entire population 

of Mumbai in a state of fear from Wednesday to Saturday. 

For half a week, the terrorists threw India’s largest city into 

chaos. They humiliated all levels of government, showed the police 

and the military unable to maintain control. Mumbai is sometimes 

called the New York City of India. Lashkar-e-Taiba executed the 

equivalent of attacking the Empire State Building, the Statue of 

Liberty, and Grand Central Station all at once. 

Could that happen here? Not precisely. Our high-profile targets 

aren’t as soft as Mumbai’s were then. Even Mumbai’s high-profile 

targets aren’t as soft now as they were then. But in terms of iconic 

impact, actions not too far short of Mumbai already have occurred 

here. 

Less than 2 months ago, the Boston Marathon blasts had a similarly dramatic effect. As Congressman Keating knows better than 

most of us, they kept a city and a Nation on eggshells for 4 days. 

In 2002, Washington, DC, Maryland, and Virginia were virtually 

paralyzed for 3 weeks by the Beltway snipers. These attacks to-
40 

1The opinions and conclusions expressed in this testimony are the author’s alone and should 

not be interpreted as representing those of RAND or any of the sponsors of its research. This 

product is part of the RAND Corporation testimony series. RAND testimonies record testimony 

presented by RAND associates to Federal, State, or local legislative committees; Governmentappointed commissions and panels; and private review and oversight bodies. The RAND Corporation is a nonprofit research organization providing objective analysis and effective solutions 

that address the challenges facing the public and private sectors around the world. RAND’s publications do not necessarily reflect the opinions of its research clients and sponsors. 2This testimony is available for free download at http://www.rand.org/pubs/testimonies/ 

CT390.html. 

gether, one with pressure cooker bombs, one with firearms, may 

provide a glimpse of Mumbai in America. 

I would like to conclude with what a Boston squared attack 

might look like here. It might, like Mumbai in 2008, rely on small 

arms and simple explosives rather than chemical, biological, or 

other advanced weapons. It might, like Mumbai in 2006, rely on 

simple improvised explosive devices requiring no special training. 

Like the Boston Marathon bombs and like Mumbai in 2006, pressure cookers were the device. But before we ban pressure cookers, 

let’s remember how many different types of IEDs our troops have 

faced in Afghanistan and in Iraq. 

It might, like both of these Mumbai attacks, as well as bombings 

in 1993 and 2003, rely on multiple teams hitting several soft targets at once, as Chief Pfeifer has noted. Such an action could be 

accomplished by a particularly competent set of independent operators or by a terrorist group far less capable than Lashkar. 

Getting to Ranking Member Higgins’s point, is this the only 

group we have to worry about? Definitely not. That is why Lashkar 

remains such a threat, in my judgment, not as an operator per se 

but as a producer of terrorists, terrorists that sometimes operate 

for Lashkar, sometimes for al-Qaeda, sometimes for groups that are 

spread all throughout the world. 

This really is why, in my view, Lashkar is a threat not only to 

U.S. interests and citizens abroad but to the American homeland. 

I thank you, and I look forward to your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Blank follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JONAH BLANK 1

JUNE 12, 2013 

LASHKAR-E-TAIBA AND THE THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES OF A MUMBAI-STYLE

ATTACK 2

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, Members of the committee, it is an honor 

to appear before you today. This hearing addresses two significant threats to America’s security and vital interests: Lashkar-e-Taiba, and the potential for a Mumbaistyle attack here in the United States. Both threats are timely, and receive far less 

attention than they warrant—but they are not necessarily related. Lashkar-e-Taiba 

(LeT) poses a grave danger to U.S. interests and citizens in South Asia, but is less 

of an immediate risk to the American homeland. A Mumbai-style attack—that is, 

an attack dramatic and shocking enough to inspire widespread terror even without 

the use of weapons of mass destruction or a casualty-count in the thousands—remains a realistic near-term threat to the homeland. Such an attack might be 

termed, ‘‘Boston Squared’’—that is, an attack similar to the Boston Marathon bombing in April, but much larger in effect—and wouldn’t require the resources of 

Lashkar-e-Taiba or al-Qaeda in order to achieve its aims. 

Before turning to lessons that the Mumbai attack of 2008 might hold for homeland security here (a topic on which my colleague Brian Jenkins has provided expert 

analysis), I’ll spend a few minutes outlining why I regard Lashkar-e-Taiba as a very 

significant threat to American interests and citizens abroad—and less of a threat 

here at home. 
41 

3For studies outlining ISI support to Lashkar-e-Taiba, as well as some of the other basic facts 

about LeT, see South Asian Terrorism Portal: http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/ 

states/jandk/terroristloutfits/lashkarleltoiba.htm; Ashley J. Tellis, ‘‘The Menace That Is 

Lashkar-e-Taiba,’’ Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (Washington, DC: March, 2012): 

http://carnegieendowment.org/files/LeTlmenace.pdf; and Anirban Ghosh, Arif Jamal, Christine Fair, Don Rassler, Nadia Shoeb, ‘‘The Fighters of Lashkar-e-Taiba: Recruitment, Training, 

Deployment and Death’’ (West Point, NY: Combating Terrorism Center at West Point, April 4, 

2013): http://www.ctc.usma.edu/posts/the-fighters-of-lashkar-e-taiba-recruitment-training-deployment-and-death. 4The five highest-profile Indian attacks credibly linked to LeT outside of Kashmir are: Delhi, 

Red Fort, 2000 (LeT operative Ashfaq Arif was convicted and executed; http://www.bbc.co.uk/ 

news/world-south-asia14471793 P); New Delhi, Parliament House, 2001 (LeT is believed to have 

cooperated with Jaish-e Muhammad for this attack: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/ 

2010/11/usltreasurylsanctionl1.php); New Delhi, Diwali market bombings, 2005 (60 dead, 

527 maimed. LeT denied responsibility, but is widely assumed to have orchestrated the attacks: 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2005-11-01/diwali-begins-as-delhi-mourns-bomb-victims/2136636; 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/southlasia/4395346.stm); Varanasi, 2006 (more than 20 dead, responsibility claimed by previously and subsequently unknown group Lashkar-e Qahab, believed 

to be LeT front: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2006-03-09/india/ 

27822334l1lvaranasi-blasts-twin-blasts-outfit); Mumbai, July 11 2006 railway blasts (Sometimes called the ‘‘7/11’’ attacks, for the date on which they occurred; 211 dead, about 400 

maimed, over 768 injured less severely; Lashkar-e Qahhar, also believed to be a front for LeT, 

claimed responsibility: http://www.idsa.in/idsastrategiccomments/MumbaiSerialBlastsPortendDangerousTrendslAKambojl190706); Mumbai, November 2008 attacks: LeT operative David 

Headley outlined the group’s role in U.S. court testimony (http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ 

2013/January/13-nsd-104.html), and Pakistan’s own investigation implicated LeT (http:// 

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/9672494/Pakistan-details-how-Lashkar-eTaiba-2008-Mumbai-attack-gunmen-were-trained.html). 5http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/usa/IIF.htm. Also http://carnegieendowment.org/files/ 

LeTlmenace.pdf. 6http://www.cfr.org/pakistan/lashkar-e-taiba-army-pure-aka-lashkar-e-tayyiba-lashkar-etoiba-lashkar-taiba/p17882. 7http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/next-al-qaeda-lashkar-e-taiba-and-future-terrorism-south-asia. 8http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/04/isaflcapturesllashka.php. 

Lashkar-e-Taiba is one of the most capable, experienced, resourced, and politically-protected terrorist groups in the world. For more than two decades it has carried out acts of terrorism, as well as more traditional guerrilla warfare, in both 

India and Afghanistan. LeT enjoyed virtually open support from the Pakistani state 

throughout the 1990s, and has received at least tacit protection (in my view, also 

active facilitation and guidance) from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) since the group was officially banned by Islamabad in 2002.3 In addition 

to whatever support it still receives from ISI, Lashkar has a global network of fundraising and recruitment that frees it from complete reliance on its traditional patron. 

The bulk of LeT’s terrorist actions have been carried out in India. Most of these 

have targeted Kashmir, but at least five major attacks on civilian targets have been 

credibly attributed to Lashkar elsewhere in India: Three in New Delhi, one in 

Varanasi, and two in Mumbai.4 Given this focus, why does LeT pose a threat to the 

United States? 

First, Lashkar-e-Taiba is a de facto affiliate of al-Qaeda, and is believed to have 

joined Usama bin Laden’s International Islamic Front for Jihad sometime after the 

umbrella group’s famous fatwa in 1998.5 When al-Qaeda’s Chief Operating Officer 

Abu Zubaydah was captured in Faisalabad, Pakistan in 2002, the site where he was 

located was an LeT safe-house.6 In rhetoric, at least, LeT has openly declared itself 

to be a committed threat to America.7

Second, LeT has killed American citizens in South Asia, and remains a threat to 

Americans in that region. In the 2008 attack on Mumbai, for example, four Americans were killed and two were seriously injured. In Afghanistan, LeT militants have 

fought in conventional and unconventional actions alongside cadres of the Taliban, 

the Haqqani Network, and al-Qaeda; for example, in July 2008, LeT fighters are believed to have been among a 400-strong insurgent force that nearly overran a Coalition outpost near Wanat in Nuristan, killing 9 U.S. troops and wounding 15 others.8

Third, Lashkar-e-Taiba has always been, and is likely to remain, a factory churning out violent extremists. Even if the group itself continues to limit its attacks to 

South Asia, its alumni network and splinter cells show no such restraint. Several 

terrorist plots in Europe—fortunately, most foiled well before completion—have had 

LeT linkages. One such plot was a proposed attack on a Danish newspaper and 
42 

9http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=700541. Ilyas Kashmiri had close ties to ISI 

during the 1990s, and his intelligence liaisons are said to have unsuccessfully tried to steer him 

towards joining Jaish-e Muhammad, a Pakistan-based terrorist group that has operated in concert with LeT in the past. He was killed in a drone strike on June 4, 2011. http:// 

www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/10/kashmirillashkaretai.php. 10 Bruce Riedel, American Diplomacy and the 1999 Kargil Summit at Blair House, Policy 

paper series, Center for Advanced Studies of India, 2002. p .11. The prime minister during that 

crisis, Nawaz Sharif, was sworn into office for a third term on June 5, 2013. http:// 

media.sas.upenn.edu/casi/docs/research/papers/Riedell2002.pdf. 11There is no direct proof linking implicating General Pervez Musharraf (who was Chief of 

Army Staff when bin Laden is believed to have taken up residence at Abbotabad) or General 

Ashfaq Kiyani (who was Director of ISI at the time, and is now Chief of Army Staff). But former 

ISI chief Gen. Ziauddin Khwaja is quoted by former National Security Council Senior Director 

Bruce Riedel as saying that Musharraf ‘‘knew Bin Laden was in Abbottabad.’’ (Bruce Riedel, 

‘‘Pakistan’s Musharraf Has Been Accused of Knowing Bin Laden’s Hideout,’’ The Daily Beast, 

Feb. 14, 2012: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/13/pakistan-smusharraf-hasbeen-accused-of-knowing-osama-bin-laden-s-hideout.html). Moreover, it seems hard to imagine 

that bin Laden would choose to hide right next to a Pakistani military establishment—leaving 

behind the safety and protection of his heavily-armed tribal hosts in Waziristan—without being 

convinced that he’d be sheltered by the very highest levels of the Army’s leadership. 

other sites in Copenhagen, in which American LeT operative David Headley conspired in 2009 with the high-level al-Qaeda commander Ilyas Kashmiri.9

LeT has contributed to terrorist recruitment in Europe through what British 

counterterrorism authorities refer to as Lashkar’s ‘‘jihadi escalator’’: Recruits are 

drawn to one of the training camps run by LeT, whether near its headquarters in 

Muridke (for purely ideological instruction) or in Pakistan’s Azad Kashmir and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (for instruction involving weaponry and advanced 

combat skills). Many recruits get off at lower levels, but the most committed ride 

the escalator up to the top floor: Membership in LeT, al-Qaeda, or any of at least 

a dozen terrorist groups that draw from Lashkar’s training and enlistment machine. 

Fourth, LeT has a unique potential to precipitate a major war between India and 

Pakistan. Due to its traditional sponsorship by Pakistan’s military, an attack by 

LeT is regarded by India as nearly synonymous with an attack by the state of Pakistan. At least twice in the recent past—after the 2008 Mumbai attack, and after 

the 2001 attack on India’s Parliament—New Delhi came very close to launching a 

military strike across the border in response to an attack attributed to LeT. As the 

1999 Indo-Pakistani combat at Kargil demonstrated, any serious military engagement between these two rivals runs the risk of nuclear escalation: During the Kargil 

episode, the Pakistani military began mobilizing the nation’s nuclear assets without 

the knowledge of the civilian prime minister.10 Apart from the risk to tens of thousands of American citizens in India and Pakistan, the threat of a nuclear exchange 

anywhere in the world would obviously have a monumental impact on U.S. strategic 

and economic interests. 

So why is Lashkar-e-Taiba NOT an immediate threat to the U.S. homeland? For 

the very same reason that it is such a uniquely problematic threat in South Asia: 

Its sponsorship by Pakistan’s military. According to former Directors of ISI and 

other retired Pakistani generals I have interviewed, the nation’s military interlocutors have drawn a red-line prohibiting Lashkar from undertaking any attacks in the 

United States or Europe. Thus far, this ban has been respected by LeT’s leadership: 

Relatively few plots outside of South Asia have been detected, and all have been 

the work of disaffected splinter cells. 

Based on interviews I have conducted in Pakistan, in Britain, and in India, there 

is wide-spread sentiment among counterterrorism professionals that LeT’s top leadership—including the group’s leader Hafez Saeed and his close associates—is likely 

to respect whatever restrictions are laid out by ISI. For Lashkar, the stakes for 

crossing ISI are too great to take the risk; for ISI, the risks of crossing the United 

States are too great to take the risk. 

This line of analysis was challenged by the revelation—on May 2, 2011—that 

Usama bin Laden had been hiding in a safehouse next door to the Pakistan Military 

Academy in Abbotabad.11 If Pakistan’s top generals could have sheltered America’s 

most wanted terrorist (the counterargument goes), why would they hesitate to unleash LeT on America? The fact remains, however, that Lashkar’s commanders have 

never authorized an attack in the United States, despite having operatives here. For 

example, in 2006 nine Virginia residents (Muhammed Aatique, Hammad AbdurRaheem, Ibrahim Ahmed Al-Hamdi, Seifullah Chapman, Khwaja Hasan, Masoud 

Khan, Yong Kwon, Randall Todd Royer, and Donald Surratt) were convicted of conspiring to provide material support to LeT: The group played paintball and travelled 

to Pakistan shortly after 9/11 to attend LeT training camps, but only with the inten-
43 

12 According to the Justice Department’s statement, Al Hamdi was convicted obtaining training ‘‘for the purpose of enhancing his ability to train for violent jihad in Chechnya, Kashmir, 

or other places outside of the United States;’’ Three others, ‘‘Yong Kwon, Muhammed Aatique, 

and Khwaja Hasan—all of whom pled guilty—stated that they went to the Lashkar-e-Taiba 

camp to obtain combat training for the purpose engaging in violent jihad in Afghanistan’’, 

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2004/April/04lcrml225.htm. 13 Ahmad lived in Woodbridge, VA. He reportedly also tried to recruit LeT operatives, received 

LeT training himself, and sought donations for the group. He was born in Sialkot, arrived in 

the United States in 2007, and became a permanent resident. http://www.wjla.com/articles/ 

2012/04/jubair-ahmad-sentenced-to-12-years-behind-bars-74909.html. 14http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/Dawood-Mumbai-blasts-mastermind-eludes-justice/Article1-1030228.aspx. 15http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-7-13/43897.html. 

tion (according to the Department of Justice) of waging war outside the United 

States.12

LeT operations outside of India and Afghanistan have generally been focused not 

on attacks, but on fundraising, recruitment, and aid for operations back in South 

Asia. For example, in April 2012, an electrician named Jubair Ahmad, was sentenced in Alexandria, Virginia, to 12 years in prison after pleading guilty to providing material support to LeT by producing an internet recruitment video.13 This 

pattern shows no immediate sign of changing—but I’ll offer the same disclaimer 

that mutual funds give to investors: Past performance is no guarantee of future results. 

If Lashkar-e-Taiba is not an immediate threat to the U.S. homeland, do we have 

to worry about a Mumbai-style attack in America? Not much—if we define 

‘‘Mumbai-style attack’’ as ‘‘an attack executed much like that of LeT’s 2008 operation in Mumbai.’’ My colleague Brian Jenkins has outlined many of the reasons 

that such an attack would be unlikely to succeed in the United States, and witnesses from law enforcement are likely to reinforce this point. The tactical 

capabilties of most American counterterrorism responders is well above that of their 

Mumbai counterparts in 2008 (indeed, the capabilities of India’s own responders, in 

Mumbai and elsewhere, is now well above the 2008 level). But the next Mumbaistyle attack won’t necessarily look like the last one. 

If we define ‘‘Mumbai-style attack’’ by its impact rather than its methods, however, such an action becomes far more plausible—and it wouldn’t require a group 

as capable as Lashkar-e-Taiba to achieve its aims. What made Mumbai so shocking 

was not its body count, or even the fact that the perpetrator was a state-sponsored 

terrorist group. Mumbai has suffered at least 7 bombings since March 12, 1993, 

when 257 people were killed and 700 were injured in a series of 13 coordinated explosives; these attacks were attributed to Dawood Ibrahim, a self-exiled Mumbai 

crime-lord with longstanding ties to ISI (since 1993, he is believed to have moved 

freely between Dubai and the Pakistani city of Karachi).14 Just 21⁄2 years before the 

2008 attack, there was another coordinated set of bombings, this one targeting 

Mumbai’s railways: Like the Dawood action, this one killed a lot more people than 

the 2008 attacks—209 compared with 166—and injured over twice as many (more 

than 700, compared with about 308). The suspected perpetrator was identified by 

Mumbai police as affiliated with LeT, perhaps working in concert with an Indian 

extremist group.15

So why has the 2008 attack become so iconic, both in India and around the world? 

A key difference was duration: The seven railway blasts on July 11, 2006, lasted 

a total of 11 minutes. The 2008 shootings kept the entire population of Mumbai— 

at that time, 14 million people, if suburbs are included—in a state of constant fear 

from Wednesday night to Saturday morning. 

During that period, the terrorists had succeeded in throwing India’s largest city 

into chaos. They humiliated the municipal, state, and national governments, and 

showed that the police and military were unable to maintain control even over the 

country’s financial and cultural center. Mumbai is sometimes referred to as the 

‘‘New York’’ of India—and Lashkar-e-Taiba executed the equivalent of capturing and 

holding the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty, and Grand Central Station all at once. 

In terms of iconic impact (that is, impact that is itself so dramatic as to create 

a new expression of terrorism—attacks targeting cultural icons), actions not too far 

short of Mumbai already have occurred here. Less than 2 months ago, the Boston 

Marathon blasts had a similarly dramatic effect, and kept both a city and a Nation 

in a state of uneasy tension until the perpetrators were brought down 4 days later. 

In October 2002, Washington, DC and the surrounding areas were paralyzed for 3 

weeks by the Beltway Sniper. Both of these attacks caused fewer deaths than other 

post-9/11 mass killings in the U.S. homeland: The Boston toll was 3 dead, while the 
44 

16 According to a World Bank report, assault rifles in the Kalashnikov family (AK–47s, AKM, 

AK–74, etc.) represent one-fifth of the 500 million small arms in the world, with AK–47’s representing approximately three-quarters of the Kalashnikov total: Phillip Killicoat, 

‘‘Weaponomics: The Global Market for Assault Rifles.’’ World Bank Policy Research Working 

Paper 4202 (Post-Conflict Transitions Working Paper No. 10: April 2007),p. 3. http://wwwwds.worldbank.org/servlet/WDSContentServer/WDSP/IB/2007/04/13/000016406l200704- 

13145045/Rendered/PDF/wps4202.pdf. 17Link is not provided in the interest of public safety, but this witness was able to find the 

site with less than half a minute of internet research. 18http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313782/Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev-Boston-Marathonbomber-admits-learned-build-bomb-Inspire-magazine.html. 19http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/ied.htm. 20The other targets were more peripheral: The Leopold Cafe, an establishment catering to 

budget-minded foreign tourists and C-list Bollywood hangers-on, may have been thrown in (like 

Metro Cinema) at the behest of local facilitators; the Chabad House was added as a target after 

the major sites at the insistence of LeT organizers seeking the global symbolism of a synagogue 

or Jewish cultural center; St. Xavier’s College may have served a similar function for its Christian symbolism; Cama Hospital appears to have been a target of opportunity, accidentally embroiled when gunmen tried to flee the nearby rail terminal. 21Praveen Swami, ‘‘A Journey Into the Laskar,’’ The Hindu, Chennai, December 2, 2008. 

http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/02/stories/2008120259961000.htm. 22One of the most widely-cited data-points in discussions of the psychology of combat is S.L.A. 

Marshall’s 1947 classic Men Against Fire (current edition: University of Oklahoma Press, 2000), 

which reported that only one-quarter of U.S. infrantrymen who engaged in active combat during 

World War Two actually fired their weapons. Marshall’s methodology and statistical conclusion 

have been criticized since his death in 1977 (see http://strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/ 

parameters/Articles/03autumn/chambers.pdf). The underlying premise, however—that most 

untrained individuals do not easily kill, even when societal norms and the laws of self-preservaBeltway snipers killed 10. By contrast, mass shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary 

School in December 2012 and Virginia Tech in November 2007 killed 26 and 32 respectively. The Tech shooting spree alone was more than ten times as deadly as the 

Marathon bombing—but the Boston attack spread wider terror. The shootings in 

Virginia were part of a long, tragic pattern of largely apolitical gun violence: 

Jonesboro, Columbine, Paducah, Aurora—the list goes on. But bombing a marathon 

was something new: It struck not only at Boston, and runners, at amateur athletes, 

at everyone who’s come out to compete or cheer a loved one across the finish line. 

What might a Mumbai-style attack look like in America? Perhaps like ‘‘Boston 

Squared’’: • It might, like the Mumbai attack of 2008, rely on small-arms and simple explosives rather than chemical, biological, or other more advanced weapons. The 

firearms used in Mumbai were primarily AK–47s—perhaps the most widelyavailable firearm in the world.16 Semi-automatic rifles are far more easily available in America than in India, and can be modified to fire fully-automatically 

without advanced training; one YouTube video demonstrates the conversion 

technique in just over 2 minutes.17

• It might, like the Mumbai railway attacks of 2006, rely on simple improvised 

explosive devices, requiring no special training to construct. The bombs for these 

attacks were made from widely-available pressure cookers—just like the bombs 

in Boston. The surviving suspect in the Boston attack, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, allegedly told police that he and his brother learned how to construct their devices from an internet site set up by al-Qaeda’s Yemeni affiliate.18 Before banning pressure cookers, we should remember the exceptional range of materials 

used to construct IEDs deployed against our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.19

• It might, like Mumbai, rely on a small team hitting several soft targets simultaneously. While LeT engaged in considerable reconnaissance and logistical effort 

prior to the Mumbai attack (much of it by U.S. citizen David Headley), little 

of this was strictly necessary. Site-selection required scant on-the-ground expertise: The Taj Hotel is the city’s most identifiable landmark, the Oberoi is 

Mumbai’s second-most prominent hotel, and Chhatrapati Shivaji Rail Station 

has been the city’s transit hub ever since it was constructed in 1887 as Victoria 

Terminus.20 None required any particular tradecraft or surveillance to locate or 

breach. Soft targets abound in Mumbai—as they do in every American city. • It might require little sophisticated training. This is a difference from Mumbai’s 

plan as executed—but didn’t have to be. LeT probably provided its 10 operatives 

with more instruction than they needed. They are said to have received both 

the group’s basic course (Daura Aam) and its advanced combat course (Daura 

Khaas), as well as instruction for maritime operations and specialized commando drills.21 This may well have been necessary to strengthen the operatives’ 

resolve: The psychological ability to execute mass killings is not part of most 

individuals’ make-up.22 From a purely technical perspective, however, the basic 
45 

tion give them sanction to do so—is the basis for much of the basic training in U.S. and other 

militaries. 23LeT operators stayed in contact with the attack team throughout the operation, via cell 

phone and Voice Over Internet Protocol (VoIP). This does not seem, however, to have been an 

operational necessity: The controllers do not appear to have relayed any vital tactical information, merely to have urged the operators to maintain their pre-arranged targeting. Likewise, the 

risky infiltration method could have been avoided by sending the operatives in by land, whether 

in Kashmir or through Bangladesh or Nepal. Why did Lashkar choose to complicate its mission 

unnecessarily? One possible answer is that LeT did not have sufficient confidence in its 

operatives to permit them to carry out their mission unsupervised. Had the attack team been 

given its mission before a simple land infiltration and left to execute the orders without further 

contact, there may never have been proof of LeT (let alone ISI) involvement. 24 I have spoken with several retired top-level Pakistani generals who expressed these sentiments, and said that their concerns are shared among a growing minority of their brother-officers. As the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan proceeds, and as issues like supply lines through 

Torkum Gate and Spin Boldak recede in importance, we may be able to raise Lashkar-e-Taiba 

much higher on our priority list. Three years from now, it is possible that the number of U.S. 

troops killed by the Haqqani network will drop permanently to zero—but Lashkar-e-Taiba will 

present a serious threat to America for as long as it remains in operation. 

skill-set necessary to complete the mission was far more modest: Ability to fire 

small arms, toss grenades, and read a map. 

• It might, like Boston, require little sophisticated infiltration, and no exfiltration. 

There was no infiltration requirement for the suspected Boston bombers: One 

was an American citizen, the other a legal resident. LeT opted for a logisticallychallenging infiltration method in Mumbai: By sea, at night, employing GPS 

navigation, with a landing-point not far from a major Navy and Army cantonment. But this may not have been necessary: India has porous borders with 

Bangladesh and Nepal (countries in which LeT has been active in the past), and 

Lashkar had nearly two decades of experience infiltrating its operatives by land 

into Kashmir. Once inside India, the attack team could have reached Mumbai 

in the same way that thousands of migrants, both internal and external, reach 

the megalopolis every week: Bus, train, or car. As for exfiltration: LeT (and possibly the Boston attackers) never intended their journey to require an exit. 

What does this tell us about the possibility of a similar attack in America? 

First, that such an action is not beyond the capabilities of even a group far more 

modestly equipped, funded, and politically protected than Lashkar-e-Taiba: Such an 

attack does not require a state sponsor, does not require a major international terrorist organization, and may not (if one defines ‘‘Mumbai-style’’ by impact rather 

than by method used) require sophisticated planning, training, or execution. It could 

be accomplished by a particularly competent team of ‘‘lone wolves’’: If the Tsarnaev 

brothers had happened to befriend the Washington Sniper duo, those four men could 

have achieved ‘‘Boston Squared.’’ Two of these killers were U.S. citizens, one a legal 

resident, and the last was recruited after he’d already reached America; not one of 

them was linked to a foreign terrorist group, and the only one with real training 

in lethal arts (John Allen Muhammad) received his instruction in the United States 

Army. 

Second, that the key complicating factors for the terrorist team in Mumbai were 

largely of their own making, and may have stemmed from the planners’ unwillingness to trust the operators.23 As Brian Jenkins correctly notes in his testimony, the 

challenge of assembling a 10-man team all fully committed to a professionally-run 

terrorist suicide operation is quite daunting. But if one defines ‘‘Mumbai-style’’ by 

impact rather than prior example, it wouldn’t require a 10-man professional team. 

Even the actual Mumbai operation didn’t rely on complete team compliance: If a few 

of the two-man teams had deserted at the last minute, the impact on the overall 

mission would have been arithmetic rather than geometric—that is, the attack 

would have been somewhat less devastating, but the terrible mission might well 

have proceeded largely intact. Mumbai reminded us how easy it is for a small band 

of killers to create widespread—but transitory—terror. 

So what can we do? On the issue of Lashkar-e-Taiba, we could try to work with 

the government of Pakistan to construct a glide-path to decommission the organization. This would have to be done with the full cooperation of the Pakistani military, 

because any attempt to do so without the partnership of Pakistan’s army and ISI 

has no realistic chance of success. Would the Pakistani military agree to such a 

plan? At present, no. But there is a growing sentiment within the ranks of general 

officers I have interviewed that Lashkar and similar groups now represent a real 

danger to Pakistan’s own interests—and, equally importantly, to the institutional 

interests of the military itself.24 From a U.S. perspective, it’s simply unacceptable 
46 

that for a Major Non-NATO Ally to shelter and support a terrorist group officially 

committed to the killing of Americans. 

On the issue of dealing with a Mumbai-style attack, one thing we can do is take 

a lesson from the citizens of both Mumbai and Boston. The reason the attacks in 

these cities were so jarring was that they stripped away the illusion of safety. A 

few weeks ago, however, the citizens of Boston confronted an unspeakable evil—not 

with panic but with quiet, rock-solid resolve. That’s what the citizens of Mumbai 

did in 2008—indeed, at least half a dozen times in recent years. Unfortunately, that 

is what other citizens, in the United States as well as elsewhere, will be called on 

to do in the future. 

The Mumbai attack had special meaning for me: I used to live in Mumbai, just 

a few blocks from the site of most of the attacks. I used to buy American newspapers from the Taj bookshop, stop by the Leopold Cafe for a cold beer, watch a 

movie at the Metro Cinema, take trains from the terminal that locals still call by 

its colonial-era initials of ‘‘VT.’’ 

One of the victims of the Mumbai attack was a friend of mine. He was man without whom I wouldn’t have been able to conduct my ethnographic fieldwork. He was 

an elderly Muslim cleric, easily identifiable as such by his white beard and skullcap—but the gunmen still shot him at close range. 

My friend survived the attack with relatively minor wounds, but nearly 200 others weren’t as lucky. I wish I could say, ‘‘It can’t happen here,’’ but it can. 

We can do everything in our power to lessen the likelihood, but we also have to 

steel ourselves for the fact that we will not always succeed. Thank you, and I look 

forward to your questions. 

Mr. KING. Dr. Blank, thank you very much for your testimony, 

and thank all the witnesses for their testimony. My first question 

will be to Chief Pfeifer. Does the FDNY have access to sufficient 

classified information to stay informed about current threats to the 

homeland? Do you feel you are being kept updated? 

Chief PFEIFER. Right now we have two fire marshals that sit on 

the JTTF in New York. We have a fire lieutenant in the National 

Counterterrorism Center. Myself, along with a number of other 

people within the fire department, have top secret clearances. 

It is important that the fire service has intelligence. As Congressman Higgins mentioned, without intelligence, how are we going to 

know how to protect our homeland? 

Just recently, where a fully-funded position in NCTC, I was told 

was no longer going to be funded through NCTC. So we need to 

come up with our own funding source to maintain that position 

within the intelligence community. So we are in a position of looking for funds for that. 

But let me say one thing. It is not simply just about the FDNY. 

It is important that Buffalo has the information. So not only do we 

receive intelligence at the classified and unclassified level, we provide that to other parts of the city. So Buffalo right now gets our 

weekly intelligence paper called the Watchline, and that is able to 

be put in every fire house and police station. 

So I think as we look forward and try to define funding, it is how 

can we leverage those organizations like FDNY, a big fire department, how do we leverage that organization to the rest of the country? It is not simply let’s give one city money. The city that receives 

the funding has a responsibility to provide information to the rest 

of the country. 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Chief; ask the other three witnesses. The 

reality is there is going to be a U.S. withdrawal in Afghanistan by 

2014. In that vacuum, specifically do you think LeT is going to play 

a role, is going to enhance their position? Also, as Dr. Blank saw 
47 

LeT or some other group that can carry out a Mumbai attack in 

this country. 

Do you see anything we can be doing, directly referencing the 

2014 withdrawal, to minimize the potential for either LeT or other 

groups to fill a vacuum to the extent that they can attack us? I will 

start with Dr. Fair and we will just work across. 

Ms. FAIR. Now this is a really interesting question. So here is my 

take. As I said in my written testimony and elsewhere, Jamaat-udDawa is very pro-state as an organization. If you read its publications, it actually takes on very directly those Deobandi organizations, which is a different and competitive interpretive tradition of 

Islam. It takes to task those groups that target Pakistanis. 

What is interesting in their book ‘‘Why Do We Wage Jihad?’’, you 

get to about page 33 and you get to this particular set of reasoning. 

They say that it is not appropriate to target Pakistanis and they 

offer a number of reasons. 

They then say that it is for that reason that we have to continue 

to fight what they call the external kufar, you know, basically us, 

the Indians, anyone who is not in Pakistan. They say that when 

we stop waging jihad on the external kufar, we will then turn our 

guns on Pakistan and the entire Pakistani project will basically be 

disintegrated. 

This points to a couple of paradoxes that confront the organization. On the one hand, they, like other Islamist terrorist organizations, they are under pressure to take their jihad outside of the 

theater of South Asia. 

But because they are, as I think all of us have agreed to one extent or another, are still very much as an organization under the 

thumb of the ISI, it seems that they have to calibrate this demand 

to operate abroad while continuing to enjoy access to the amenities 

that Pakistan itself offers. 

So if you were to think about what is the sweet spot for LeT to 

operate outside of South Asia but not do so in a way that is catastrophic that would be an act of war on the United States, I think 

European countries are actually perhaps more at risk than we are. 

Some of the Scandinavian countries have done things that have 

been very provocative to Islamists. They don’t have the relationship 

with Pakistan. They are not a source of money in the way in which 

we are. So when I think about what are the other theaters where 

LeT could operate that would satisfy the requirement to operate 

outside of South Asia while retaining ties to the ISI, those are the 

theaters I think about. 

I think—now going back to this diaspora issue, it is also a fact 

that American Muslims, Muslims in other countries, converts in 

particular, continue to be radicalized by things that they see in Afghanistan. I do anticipate that we are going to see more, not less, 

of this diaspora involvement. Whether or not this ties to 2014 per 

se is really a different issue for a number of reasons. 

What I think we can do in the near term, given that we have 

this very real requirement to work with Pakistan, is, I do think we 

need to think about signaling to the Pakistanis very clearly that 

this stuff is just not acceptable. 
48 

The last time an American official said to Pakistanis in public, 

‘‘Your government harbors terrorists,’’ was Secretary Clinton in 

2010. 

There was never an explanation about the waiver. ‘‘By the way, 

we are doing this waiver because—well, we need to deal with you. 

But there is going to come a time when this isn’t going to happen.’’ 

So, I think we should be taking advantage of the space between 

now and 2014 to really think through how do we handle Pakistan? 

Also, while we sort of hold our breath to 2014, think about what 

we can do right now. 

I have said this in other forum. I have absolutely no moral 

qualms with going after ISI individuals who are linked to LeT attacks using every Department of Treasury tool at our disposal, denying them and their children visas. I don’t even have a problem 

with putting LeT in the JASA targeting list. 

If we have to basically acquiesce to the reality that we can’t really do much about JUD within Pakistan, they become dangerous 

when they leave Pakistan. So maybe we should really be thinking 

about our law enforcements and other more aggressive tools to deal 

with LeT operatives once they leave Pakistan, if we have to sort 

of acquiesce to the political requirement that we can’t do anything 

within Pakistan. 

Thank you. 

Mr. KING. Dr. Tankel. 

Mr. TANKEL. Thank you very much. 

Let me take the 2014 question and—and draw attention to two 

theaters within South Asia first. Here, I would also draw your attention to an article I wrote not too long ago for Foreign Policy 

called ‘‘The Militant Groups Next Door,’’ talking about the impact 

of the draw-down in Afghanistan on various actors like Lashkare-Taiba. 

The first is that, as U.S. forces draw down in Afghanistan, LeT 

is likely to seek to regenerate the conflict in India-administered 

Kashmir. They have had their eyes there for some time. They see 

the U.S. draw-down, you know, and in their eyes, the reduction potentially in pressure leveraged on Pakistan is an opportunity for 

them to do so. 

That doesn’t mean that they will leave Afghanistan. They are a 

robust-enough and elastic-enough group, in my opinion, that they 

will be able to keep some people in Eastern Afghanistan, specifically, Kunar and Nuristan provinces, where they have been working to carve out safe haven, as well as regenerating their jihad in 

Indian-administered Kashmir. 

Now, what does that mean for the dynamics within the group 

and for the threat to us? 

First, if they are unable to regenerate the conflict in Kashmir to 

a suitable level, and if they don’t see the ISI as forthcoming enough 

with support, that could create tensions within the organization, 

and spur them, and contribute to that pressure to look further 

afield. 

Second, if they are able to maintain some safe haven in Afghanistan, that doesn’t mean that they will be able to plan attacks 

against the United States or in European countries from that area, 

but it does provide another layer of plausible deniability. Which is 
49 

that LeT can say, ‘‘It wasn’t us, it was X or Y splinter group in Afghanistan that did this to you.’’ 

So, I think those are two areas where we really need to keep our 

eyes on it. Again, I come back to the need for greater collection and 

greater resource allocation in terms of analysts to look at some of 

these issues. 

I would finally add, in terms of our relations with Pakistan and 

what can we do, it is my sense that for the last however-many 

number of years, when we have sat down at the table, our top asks 

have been about al-Qaeda, about Afghanistan, and then, you know, 

perhaps weapons of mass destruction. 

As U.S. forces draw down, and with al-Qaeda Central degraded, 

LeT should elevate in priority. You know, with all of the different 

tools that people have outlined, I think we need to be more prepared to use those tools, and to make that clear to the Pakistanis 

post-2014. 

Mr. KING. Thank you. 

Dr. Blank. 

Mr. BLANK. Thank you. 

Let me pick it up from where Dr. Tankel left off, since I very 

strongly agree with that, that 2014 can be an opportunity for us. 

Up until now, our ask list for Pakistan has had GLOCs, the 

ground lines of communication, perhaps, is No. 1. Al-Qaeda is No. 

2, or No. 1, depending on what day of the week it is. Haqqani is 

perhaps No. 3. 

Somewhere way down on the list is Lashkar-e-Taiba. Two years 

from now, nobody in the United States is going to care much about 

the Haqqani network, because as soon as our troops are no longer 

in Eastern Afghanistan, the Haqqani network is not going to be a 

real—a top priority for us. Likewise, the ground lines of communication are not going to be a top priority for us when we no longer 

need them. 

Al-Qaeda, hopefully, will continue to be less of a priority in the 

future than it has in the past. That provides us the opportunity to 

raise Lashkar-e-Taiba up on the bid list. I see at least a potential 

for some good news there. Because right now, the reason that 

Lashkar-e-Taiba is so dangerous is its continuing ties with the 

Pakistani state. 

But there is a growing feeling within the Pakistani military 

cadre at the top leadership that this is not necessarily a good deal 

for Pakistan, either. I have spoken with several former D.G. ISIs, 

commanders of ISI, and other retired Pakistani generals, who have 

candidly said, ‘‘Time is not on our side here.’’ 

This is not an organization that is in a static situation with us. 

They are going to turn on us sooner rather than later. We should 

be developing a glide path for helping Pakistan turn the fiction of 

LeT. The fiction is that LeT is dead, and Jamaat-ud-Dawa is a social service organization. 

We should be looking for a way of turning that fiction into a reality. 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Dr. Blank. 

Now, the Ranking Member, as much time as you require, sir. 
50 

Mr. HIGGINS. Yes, just—the comment of Dr. Blank on the issue 

of Lashkar-e-Taiba as a producer of terrorists is cause for great 

concern, particularly in Pakistan. 

Pakistan’s a large country of about 180 million people, a lot of 

Islamic extremists, and they have nuclear weapons. A major goal 

of al-Qaeda and other extremist organizations is to gain access to 

nuclear weapons. 

When you consider that the Taliban is virtually controlling the 

Swat Valley some 90 miles from Islamabad, the prospects of an increasingly influential Lashkar-e-Taiba is a great concern. 

So, talk a little bit about the relationship again between 

Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and other groups that 

may be emerging. 

The other concern I have is, you know, Pakistan views India as 

an existential threat to its very existence, real or perceived. You 

know, the dynamics of that relationship as it evolves moving forward, particularly within the context of the United States withdrawal of Afghanistan in 2014. Anybody who wants to take that. 

Ms. FAIR. So, on this relationship issue, it is all too often that 

these groups just get lumped into one category. These organizations spend a lot of time differentiating themselves from each 

other, both for recruitment purposes and fund-raising purposes. So, 

I take seriously their own efforts to differentiate themselves from 

others. 

Al-Qaeda—the connection between al-Qaeda and Lashkar-eTaiba—I am a skeptic of that evidence. There have been al-Qaeda 

personnel found in LeT safe houses, but that is also true of 

Jamaat-e-Islami. 

In fact, one of the reasons why I think LeT has, even though 

ideologically has more affinity to al-Qaeda, has been more aloof, is 

that it always had its own training camps in Afghanistan. So, the 

reason why it is in Afghanistan in Kunar and Nuristan is that that 

is actually where it began. 

There is historical reasons. There have always been Ahl-e-Hadith 

adherents to these parts of Afghanistan, and so that has been the 

home territory for Lashkar-e-Taiba in Afghanistan. 

In contrast, most of the organizations that operate in and from 

Pakistan are associated with a movement called Deobandi. It is 

very different than the Deobandi in India. But they, much more 

than LeT, which recruits a very well-educated cadre, as we demonstrate in the Combating Terrorism Senate Report that I did with 

my colleagues, these are—the Deobandi groups—they will rely 

much more heavily upon a network of madrassas and mosques. 

So, for example, the Deobandi organizations produced the Afghan 

Taliban. The Pakistan Taliban—the groups that are targeting 

Shia—like you might have heard the expression Lashkar-eJhangvi. These organizations, because of their association with bin 

Laden in Afghanistan, have had much more integral and organic 

ties. 

So, for example, the attack that occurred in the U.S. consulate 

in Karachi—that was al-Qaeda in conception, but it was executed 

by local Deobandi groups Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-eJhangvi. 
51 

So, it is really important that we understand how these groups 

interact. That just because the organizations have certain affinities, we have to remember that these are—once they train a militant, they have recruited someone essentially who has a taste for 

violence. As Dr. Tankel said, let’s say that you have been recruited 

by LeT, but you are frustrated that you can’t go to a mission in 

India, or you haven’t been selected to go to Afghanistan to kill 

Americans. Because, again, the leadership is so involved in selecting people for these missions. There is nothing that stops you from 

going and joining the Pakistan Taliban. 

But for purposes of our discussion, and for purposes of holding 

Pakistan accountable, we do have to be careful. When it says, ‘‘We, 

Pakistan, are a victim of terrorism,’’ the response should be, ‘‘Yes, 

you are a victim of terrorists that you cultivated,’’ right? This 

doesn’t in any way, shape, or form mitigate the relationship that 

you have with groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba. 

So, I think these distinctions are really important. They take 

themselves seriously. 

Mr. TANKEL. I would just add to that, you know, I think it is also 

important to recognize that Lashkar-e-Taiba, specifically, is historically dichotomous in some ways. It has been willing to train many, 

many, many people who, you know, were not members of the 

group. 

After 9/11, when the training infrastructure was destroyed in Afghanistan, LeT picked up a significant amount of the slack, because it continued to have standing training camps. That doesn’t 

mean that everybody stayed with the group afterwards. 

At the same time, it is a historically selfish organization. So, 

when it has come across people like David Headley, for example, 

who are—you know, have a particular set of specialized skills—in 

this case, the ability to speak English and a U.S. passport—they 

have sought to hold onto them. 

That creates, you know, a degree of competition specifically with 

al-Qaeda, which is seeking the same types of individuals. As a matter of fact, when Lashkar-e-Taiba pulled back on the plot in Denmark, David Headley went over and began working with al-Qaeda. 

He didn’t leave LeT. He was working with both organizations. So 

that is a danger. 

The other point I would make more broadly, is that all of these 

groups collaborate and compete, as Dr. Fair said. LeT competes 

more than most, because it is—and others are Deobandi, but also 

because it is much closer to the state. So unlike most of the groups, 

it hasn’t turned its guns on the state. 

It has actually been used against some of these actors by the ISI, 

while at the same time, collaborating with them. So Lashkar-eTaiba militants, some could be providing intelligence on the Pakistani Taliban, and others could be working with them at al-Qaeda 

across the border in Afghanistan. 

That creates a very, very dangerous dynamic. Because of course, 

the risks from collaboration are obvious. The risks from competition should be obvious as well, which is to say that if you are a 

group that is trying to hold the line on turning your guns against 

the Pakistani state, while all the other people that you are working 
52 

with are doing that, you look for other avenues where you can gain 

credibility. 

That doesn’t mean on its face that you go and you attack the 

homeland. But it is another sort of point that can drive you in the 

direction of seeking to expand not necessarily against the homeland, perhaps in Europe, perhaps by adding Western targets to 

your target set in South Asia. 

Those are the types of dynamics I think that we need to keep in 

mind. I think it is—your question, Congressman, is a very, very important one, and really goes to the heart of some of the fast-evolving developments that are taking place within the militant landscape. 

Mr. BLANK. I agree with Doctors Fair and Tankel. So rather than 

restate what they have said, I will just make a quick point about 

Lashkar-e-Taiba recruitment, and how that actually could be of 

concern to us here. 

Some of the most dangerous recruits that Lashkar is looking for, 

they don’t look like what a lot of Americans would think a 

Lashkar-e-Taiba operative looks like. They look like me. 

If you see a picture of David Headley, he looks like a—you know, 

he had one eye is green and one eye was gray. He could have not 

been out of place on any American street. That is why he was so 

highly sought. 

Sajid Mir, the Lashkar-e-Taiba operative who is in charge of 

finding foreign recruits, went out of his way to find not just diaspora recruits, but Westerners, people from East Asia, anybody who 

could not fit the profile. 

So when we are thinking who is the, you know, who is the guy 

you should be afraid of, it is not me as I look like when I was living 

in Lahore, when I had a long beard and a skullcap and tried to 

speak only in—it is me right now. If you are on an airplane, and 

someone is ordering the Halal meal, that is not the guy you should 

be afraid of. 

Mr. HIGGINS. Yield back. 

Mr. KING. Ranking Member yields back. I now recognize Mr. 

Keating for as much time as he requires. 

Mr. KEATING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to focus on comments from Dr. Blank and Chief Pfeifer for a second. You know— 

and it is about the areas you dealt with, the Mumbai-type attacks, 

fire, and incendiaries as a weapon. I understand iconic buildings 

and facilities as a symbol, and as a target. 

But one of the areas I am concerned about that you didn’t address directly, is the idea that with this kind of fire as a weapon, 

or incendiaries as a weapon-type attack, what about places that 

contain hazardous materials? What about places that have chemicals, or gases, or petroleum-based products? There could be a tremendous damage done in that respect. 

Now, yesterday I was with firefighters throughout our State, including firefighters in Boston. I was talking to them about their 

level of preparedness. One of the things that concerned me directly—and if you can comment on this, Chief, that would be helpful—is the fact that—now there is Boston, a top-tier city in terms 

of the ranking to terrorist attack. 
53 

They are not having utilization of the grant money right now directly for their own training. I was told that they were getting help 

from New York with some training. 

But otherwise, they are taking their personnel and going to 

places like Alabama to get trained there, which I think you know, 

Chief, is impractical to be able to train enough people, and spend 

the grant money, to go down to Alabama to get trained and come 

back. 

So how important is this, you know, for our major cities in particular, to be able to have this kind of training in HAZMAT? Because I see this as an enormous threat. If Dr. Blank can comment 

on the enormous threat that it might present. If the chief—if you 

could, Chief Pfeifer, talk about exactly the level of preparedness, 

and the fact that we are, as the Homeland Security, as a committee, and as a Congress, we are sending funds for training. But 

I am worried it is not getting utilized so that it really is any great 

help to our cities like Boston. Either one of you can go first. 

Chief PFEIFER. I was just up in Boston a couple weeks ago talking to Commissioner Fraser, and also to the police department, and 

OEM. I understand very much what they went through with the 

Boston Marathon. 

We have a very good relationship with Boston Fire Department. 

You are correct in saying that training is critical to first responders. Hazardous-material training, particularly critical when we are 

talking CBRN-type of attacks. 

The interesting thing we must note about training is that it is 

a perishable skill. If we don’t keep training, if we don’t keep testing 

ourselves, we lose that. 

The other thing with first responders is that the people rotate in 

and out. People retire and new folks come on. So training must 

continue—be a continuing process. That takes funding. It takes a 

lot of funding. 

For New York City Fire Department, to train everyone within the department for 1 hour, it costs $1 million. But without the 

training, we can’t deal with a hazardous-material event, or we can’t 

deal with a Mumbai-style attack. 

Both types of attacks, CBRN or Mumbai-style, is a high-consequence, low-frequency. We don’t see it a lot. It is not something 

we get to practice. Therefore, the training is important. 

The other element is for us to share information, and to share 

information particularly on the East Coast. How do we collaborate 

together? How do we do that amongst fire departments? But how 

we also do it incorporating fire, police, and emergency medical is 

certainly a challenge for all of us. 

Mr. KEATING. Chief, in New York, because of your size and the 

fact you are a target, you are able to have your own training. My 

concern going forward is these other cities and these other communities, they don’t have their own. 

What is happening with Homeland there, my understanding 

from the firefighters is, they are centralizing training in places 

that, frankly, these cities can’t afford to send people to. 

Dr. Blank, what do you think about the dangerousness of that 

kind of combined fire attack with hazardous materials? I just think 

the danger of that is enormous. 
54 

Mr. BLANK. Thank you, Congressman. I completely agree. I think 

from a tactical perspective, we have chemical plants around the 

country that are WMD waiting to be deployed. 

You don’t have to bring WMD to the United States. All you have 

to do is use the WMD that is lying around here. 

The same week, right after the Boston Marathon bombings, we 

saw an explosion at a chemical plant in Texas, which fortunately, 

was not a terrorist action. But that doesn’t matter to the people 

who died there. If I were a member of Lashkar-e-Taiba, or another 

terrorist group, I would be looking very seriously at that. 

I think also, Congressman, your larger point about, we have got 

to be looking forward rather than back, is critically important. The 

next Mumbai is not going to look like the last one. The opportunities for iconic attacks, by which I mean not attacks on icons, but 

attacks that are themselves icons, that is immense. 

Why was Boston such a blow to all of us, not just those of us who 

have lived in Boston, but everybody who is a runner, everybody 

who is an athlete, everybody who loves someone who is a runner 

or an athlete, or has been to Boston, or just identifies with people 

who suffered such terrible things? 

It is because people are always coming up with new ideas. Last 

summer, I drove from Congressman Keating’s district to Congressman King’s district, and of course, I took the Long Island ferry 

from New London to Orient Point. I don’t want to give anybody 

ideas, but that would be a soft target that would have enormous 

iconic impact. 

We have got to be thinking about these things, not just about 

making soft targets harder, but also recognizing that the future is 

not going to look like the past. 

Mr. KEATING. Yes. I just want to thank you. I think if you turn 

on a television news station on any given evening, if there is a fire 

in that community, they are covering it. Certainly, the 

attractiveness of these terrorist groups to getting media, optimizing 

the media exposure is very real, too. 

So I want to thank all of you. Dr. Fair, thank you for your comments on information sharing. I think that is—these things—first 

responders, information sharing—remain among our priorities. 

With that, I yield back. 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Mr. Keating. I really just have one question. I want to thank you all for your testimony. But as far as an 

affiliate of LeT, or faction of LeT, if there were an attack against 

us, American interests overseas, by one of these factions—of course, 

LeT would just claim—assume they would just claim responsibility—would ISI, do you believe, have control over the factions as 

well? Or could a faction carry out an attack against American interests without some sort of condoning by ISI? 

Mr. TANKEL. Let me start by saying that as incredibly troublesome as the ISI-LeT relationship is for a host of reasons, I think 

one of the things that we need to be very concerned about is a reduction of ISI situational awareness and influence over LeT. 

Now, that said, I think it is important. One can divide this many 

different ways. I will choose just two. One is that this is a core LeT 

attack, but that it is claimed by a front group, you know, the same 
55 

way Deccan Mujahideen was created to claim the 2008 Mumbai attacks. 

Arguably, you know, I think it is unlikely in my personal opinion 

that ISI would be aware of it. I think that there is—I would assume that core LeT is working to create compartments within the 

organization that are outside of ISI’s purview. 

That this relationship, as close as it is, as long-lasting as it is, 

is still not a relationship where the two people are working together because they all the time like one another or always share 

the precise same goals. 

So I would assume that LeT is working to create compartments 

within the organization that are outside of ISI’s awareness. My 

fear would be that the ISI does not recognize that, that it thinks 

it has the situation under control, or that LeT is benefiting as a 

result of benign neglect. 

The second is that this is an actual splinter. There, you know, 

I think if it is an actual splinter, you know, that is a much more 

complicated response for us in some ways, but it is a real threat. 

There, again, I would look at the ISI-LeT relationship from the 

perspective of the degree to which it has the potential to create 

some of those splinters. 

That the more the group, you know, tries to tow the line or reign 

in people, the more there is the potential for it to throw off viviparous units. 

Then, again, that is not to say that we want situational awareness or influence to cease or that we want the ISI to continue supporting LeT. We don’t. We want it to gradually dismantle it. 

But it is to say that we need to be prepared for the potential consequences if that were to occur and, certainly, need to be aware of 

the dynamics of the relationship as it exists now. 

Mr. KING. Dr. Fair. 

Ms. FAIR. I actually find myself in disagreement with you, Dr. 

Tankel. We will have to take this to the bar. 

Mr. KING. Let’s not have a fight here now. 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. FAIR. Right. So I actually do have a very different opinion 

about this. It is really important that we understand that of all of 

the dozens of terrorists groups operating in Pakistan against Pakistanis, the reason why Jamaat-ud-Dawa is so useful to the ISI is 

that in its literature it actually says this is a bad thing. 

There have been recent reports, in fact, that there might even be 

an actual militarized conflict between Jamaat-ud-Dawa and elements of the Pakistani Taliban. 

As 2014 comes into focus, the Pakistanis, in their own way, think 

that once we are gone that the Pakistani Taliban will go back to 

Afghanistan, that they will go back to their traditional theaters, 

that they will no longer be the target of the TTP because they are 

not going to be working with us. 

I think the Pakistanis are wrong in that calculation. I think that 

the TTP has morphed in a way that the Pakistanis don’t understand. Because of that, I think Jamaat-ud-Dawa is going to become 

more important to the state than not because it will be the only 

organization that has an ideological argument against the TTP. 
56 

Now, this doesn’t mean that there won’t be individuals within 

Jamaat-ud-Dawa/LeT that disagrees with the leadership, doesn’t 

preclude factions. 

But this does go to I think there needs to be a discussion in the 

U.S. Government about how we respond. I am of the belief that 

anything we can do to shrink the space of plausible deniability is 

to our benefit. 

The Pakistanis, the ISI, the army, the militant groups themselves are constantly trying to expand this space for plausible 

deniability. 

I really don’t care whether the organization that attacks the 

United States has the sanction of Muridke and LeT’s leadership or 

for that matter, Rawalpindi or the ISI headquarters in Opara, we 

need to hold the Pakistani state accountable. 

They have nurtured these lunatics. They have done everything 

they can to help them and to expand their mission domestically. 

They have thwarted our every single opportunity to get the Pakistanis to come to their sense about this organization. 

I don’t find any logical, compelling reason to indulge Pakistan’s 

sense of plausible deniability. We need to tell them, you know 

what, this is your problem. You have raised these guys, this is your 

problem. 

I don’t—I can’t even understand why we would even give the 

Pakistanis even greater plausible deniability than they have already cultivated. 

Mr. TANKEL. Can I just? 

Mr. KING. And, now, rebuttal. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. TANKEL. Let me be clear—— 

Mr. KING. Yes. 

Mr. TANKEL. Saying that Lashkar-e-Taiba is attempting to carry 

out operations without the ISI knowing does not mean that the ISI 

shouldn’t be held responsible for that. 

Ms. FAIR. Okay. 

Mr. TANKEL. Okay, I mean that is an important distinction. To 

your question about whether the ISI would know about it and sanction it, you know my sense is we should continue to put enormous 

pressure on the ISI to put enormous pressure on LeT not to, you 

know, carry out an attack against the U.S. homeland. 

We should make clear that we will hold the ISI responsible for 

that. That is not to say that LeT won’t attempt to compartmentalize information so that the ISI doesn’t know. 

That is—I think we need to acknowledge that reality and that 

our discussions with the ISI and with Pakistan needs to be more 

nuanced. It needs to be: Hey, listen, we are going to hold you accountable. 

Therefore, you know, though publicly you may claim that you 

have no control over LeT, privately we all know that you do. You 

better have the control over it that privately we are all assuming 

because it is going to be problematic if you don’t. 

Mr. KING. Dr. Blank, you want to take a side, too? 

Mr. BLANK. Yes. Well, actually I don’t think there is—— 

Mr. KING. I agree—— 
57 

Mr. BLANK. A huge area of disagreement because, to be honest, 

the accountability is already there. Anyone in ISI, anyone in Pakistani decision circles who thinks that if there is an attack in the 

homeland that has a return address in Pakistan that that is not 

going to lead to a tremendous response, well they were obviously 

asleep during Abbottabad that is for sure. 

I mean—also, we do have—I think I can say this now. We do 

have something called a drone program. It is—the idea that we 

would not hit back if there were a Lashkar attack in the United 

States I think is ridiculous. 

We would, and the Pakistanis know it and that is why there has 

never been a Lashkar attack in the United States. I don’t think it 

is because they don’t want to hit us. I don’t think it is because they 

can’t hit us. 

I think it is because, at least up until now, they have made a 

conscious decision to abide by ISI’s red line. Will that happen in 

the future? So far, I think yes. 

But the real danger I think is that as long as Lashkar continues 

to be this factory churning out extremists, those extremists, as both 

Dr. Fair and Dr. Tankel have testified, they are going to go somewhere. 

Mr. KING. Thank you. 

I was afraid if an argument did break out, Chief Pfeifer would 

think he was back in the firehouse. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. KING. Let me just thank all of you for your testimony. I 

found this particularly illuminating and it is important we build 

this record. 

Again, the effort that you made, the interest that you put into 

this and is—again, extraordinary, Chief Pfeifer, what you have 

done with the FDNY, the three of you with your intellectual pursuits and your academic pursuits and also willing to come forward. 

I know, Dr. Fair, it is particularly stressful at times. But, again, 

each of you contributed immeasurably to what our committee and 

subcommittee are trying to do. 

I know he is not here, but I do want to, again, thank the Ranking Member, who is not here, who had to make some serious 

changes in his schedule to be here. 

Again, I regret being late this morning. I was, as I said, caught 

in an NSA debate and, of course, my arguments were coherent and 

cogent as opposed to the opposition. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. KING. But, in any event, I want to just thank you for your 

testimony and, also, myself and other Members of the committee 

may have additional questions for you and if so, we will submit 

them to you in writing and ask for a response. 

So, without objection, the committee stands adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:44 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

(59) 

1The opinions and conclusions expressed in this testimony are the author’s alone and should 

not be interpreted as representing those of RAND or any of the sponsors of its research. This 

product is part of the RAND Corporation testimony series. RAND testimonies record testimony 

presented by RAND associates to Federal, State, or local legislative committees; Governmentappointed commissions and panels; and private review and oversight bodies. The RAND Corporation is a nonprofit research organization providing objective analysis and effective solutions 

that address the challenges facing the public and private sectors around the world. RAND’s publications do not necessarily reflect the opinions of its research clients and sponsors. 2This testimony is available for free download at http://www.rand.org/pubs/testimonies/ 

CT391.html. 3 Angel Rabasa et al., The Lessons of Mumbai, Santa Monica, CA: RAND Corporation, OP– 

249–RC, 2009. 4 Brian Michael Jenkins, Terrorists Can Think Strategically: Lessons Learned from the 

Mumbai Attacks, Testimony before the Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs, United States Senate, January 28, 2009. 

A P P E N D I X 

STATEMENT OF BRIAN MICHAEL JENKINS, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE RAND PRESIDENT, THE RAND CORPORATION 1

JUNE 12, 2013 

THE THREAT OF A MUMBAI-STYLE TERRORIST ATTACK IN THE UNITED STATES 2

I regret that circumstances prevent me from testifying in person at this hearing. 

I want thank Chairman King, with whom I have had long conversations on terrorism issues, Ranking Member Higgins, and Members of the committee for inviting 

me to submit this written testimony. The topic before the committee is the threat 

of a terrorist attack in the United States along the lines of the 2008 terrorist assault 

on the city of Mumbai, where 10 terrorists, armed with assault rifles, pistols, grenades, and improvised explosives, carried out coordinated attacks across the city, 

killing 162 people and paralyzing a metropolis of 14 million people for 60 hours 

while mesmerizing the world’s media. 

To provide background on this inquiry, I invite Members of the committee to read 

an early RAND analysis of the Mumbai attack,3 as well as my testimony before the 

Senate Homeland Security Committee on the subject.4

My RAND colleague Jonah Blank has focused his testimony on the current threat 

posed by Lashkar-e-Taiba, the organization responsible for the Mumbai attack. 

Therefore I will focus my attention on the attack scenario. 

It is ironic that as I am preparing this testimony, neighboring streets in Santa 

Monica, California, are blocked off because of a shooting rampage by a heavilyarmed lone gunman who killed five people and wounded four others before being 

killed by police. Insofar as we know now, political motives were not involved in this 

incident, but the occurrence of such episodes in the United States demonstrates the 

possibilities of similar terrorist assaults and at the same time has resulted in police 

being better prepared to respond to what are referred to as ‘‘active shooter’’ situations. 

The Mumbai assault was a complex operation involving five teams of two gunmen 

each. They arrived together at a seaside village in Mumbai and then deployed to 

attack various targets across the city. The assault required detailed planning and 

thorough reconnaissance of the targets, including learning the layouts of the luxury 

hotels that were the attackers’ final objective. Team members had been carefully selected and trained for months—their skills showed in their disciplined fire control. 

Each man carried an assault rifle with a large quantity of ammunition, a semi-automatic pistol, and hand grenades. Their goal was to kill as many people as possible 

at iconic sites. In addition, the group had five improvised explosive devices. The terrorists attacked unguarded targets—the central train station, a hospital, a Jewish 

social center, a restaurant, and two hotels. During the assault itself, they received 
60 

5These are strictly armed assaults. Additional assaults that also involved vehicle bombs are 

not included. 

instructions from controllers in Pakistan who were watching the episode on television. 

AMPLE PRECEDENTS

Although the Mumbai assault was audacious and unprecedented in its scale, complexity, and consequences, the annals of terrorism provide ample precedents for 

armed assaults, going all the way back to the 1972 terrorist attack at Tel Aviv’s 

airport. The attack, which came to be known as the Lod Airport massacre, was carried out by the Japanese Red Army, acting for the Popular Front for the Liberation 

of Palestine, with whom the Japanese group had become allies. Three attackers, 

armed with automatic weapons and hand grenades, opened fire on passengers disembarking from a flight arriving from the United States. Twenty-five people were 

killed in the assault, and 80 were wounded. More-recent terrorist assaults include 5

• 1985.—The Abu Nidal organization carried out simultaneous armed assaults at 

the Vienna and Rome airports, killing a total of 19 and wounding 140. 

• 1997.—Six gunmen attacked tourists in Luxor, Egypt, killing 62. 

• 2001.—Six gunman opened fire on a church in Bahawalpur, Pakistan, killing 

15. 

• 2001.—Five gunmen attacked India’s Parliament House, killing 7. 

• 2002.—Jihadist gunmen attacked the American consulate in Calcutta, India, 

killing 5. 

• 2003.—Four gunmen attacked multiple targets in Yanbu, Saudi Arabia, killing 

6. 

• 2003.—Gunmen attacked foreign housing compounds in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, 

killing 22. 

• 2004.—Five armed attackers broke through the gates of the American consulate 

in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, killing 5. 

• 2004.—A large group of gunmen assaulted a school complex in Beslan, Russia, 

killing and barricading themselves with hostages, most of them children. The 

episode, the most spectacular event listed here, lasted nearly 3 days and resulted in 380 deaths. 

TERRORIST ASSAULTS SINCE THE MUMBAI ATTACK

Spectacular armed terrorist assaults have been made subsequent to the Mumbai 

attack, although none of them match the scale of that operation: 

• 2009.—Members of the Pakistan Taliban attacked the Pakistani Army’s General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, killing 6. 

• 2011.—A lone gunman opened fire on the American embassy in Sarajevo, Bosnia, wounding 1. 

• 2011.—Pakistan Taliban gunmen attacked and waged a 16-hour gun battle at 

the naval air base in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. 

• 2011.—Motivated by anti-Muslim sentiments, Anders Breivik detonated a bomb 

in Oslo, killing 8, and then proceeded to gun down people at a nearby youth 

camp, killing 69. 

• 2011.—A jihadist gunman opened fire on a bus carrying U.S. military personnel 

at Frankfurt Airport in Germany, killing 2. 

• 2012.—A lone gunman, inspired by jihadist ideology, carried out a series of 

shootings in Toulouse and Montauban, France, killing 7 and wounding 5. 

• 2012.—A heavily-armed group of reportedly as many as 150 men attacked the 

U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, killing 4, including the American ambassador, and wounding 10. 

• 2013.—Terrorists claiming allegiance to al-Qaeda carried out a major assault at 

Amenas, Algeria, killing 37. 

POTENTIAL MUMBAI-STYLE ATTACKS IN THE UNITED STATES

The Mumbai attackers infiltrated the city from a hijacked fishing vessel. There 

are two ways a Mumbai-style attack could be carried out in the United States. First, 

terrorist planners could assemble and train a team of attackers abroad and attempt 

to infiltrate them into the United States individually over a period of time or as a 

single team. None of the major jihadist groups have attempted (or, insofar as we 

know, contemplated) large-scale armed assaults in the West. 

In the 9/11 attacks, al-Qaeda managed to infiltrate 19 attackers into the United 

States who remained committed to their suicidal mission even after months of resi-
61 

6These include the 2003 Northern Virginia cluster case, the 2005 New York defendants case, 

and the 2009 David Headley case. For a detailed chronology of jihadist plots in the United 

States, see Brian Michael Jenkins, Stray Dogs and Virtual Armies: Radicalization and Recruitment to Jihadist Terrorism in the United States since 9/11, Santa Monica, CA: RAND Corporation, OP–343–RC, 2011. 

dence here. However, al-Qaeda at that time operated in a more permissive environment and was able to draw upon a large reservoir of volunteers at its training 

camps in Afghanistan enabling it to select the best candidates. The terrorist organization also was better able to clandestinely communicate and transfer funds. Improved intelligence world-wide has since degraded the operational capabilities of alQaeda and has made its operating environment more hostile, making more likely 

that authorities would learn of preparations for a large-scale terrorist operation, but 

there is no guarantee that such a feat cannot be repeated, especially if the terrorists 

are allowed space to freely plan and prepare attacks. 

India’s government accused Pakistani authorities of being complicit in the 

Mumbai attack, but Pakistan has different rules for dealing with India than for 

other nations. Defendants in three of the jihadist cases in the United States since 

9/11 had connections to Lashkar-e-Taiba, but they were not plotting to carry out attacks in the United States.6 A major terrorist attack on the United States that could 

be traced back to Lashkar-e-Taiba or any other Pakistan-based group obviously 

would have serious consequences for Pakistan. 

The second approach would be for home-grown terrorists to plot a Mumbai-style 

attack. Today’s al-Qaeda has become far more decentralized, far more dependent on 

its affiliates and allies and on its ability to inspire home-grown terrorists to carry 

out attacks on its behalf. Although still dedicated to spectacular, ‘‘strategic’’ attacks, 

al-Qaeda has embraced a do-it-yourself strategy. On-line jihadist publications have 

exhorted terrorists to carry out bombings, shootings, stabbings, even ramming cars 

into crowds. 

In response to these calls, individual jihadist terrorists carried out shooting attacks, and more recently, stabbing attacks have taken place in Woolwich, England, 

and on the outskirts of Paris. 

THE U.S. EXPERIENCE

The United States is not immune to such attacks. In preparing Congressional testimony on this topic, one cannot help but recall the 1954 armed assault on Congress 

itself by four Puerto Rican separatists, in which five Members of Congress were 

wounded. Capitol security has increased since then. 

All of the more recent terrorist shootings in the United States have involved a 

single shooter: 

• 1994.—A heavily armed Lebanese immigrant opened fire on a van carrying 

Jewish students on the Brooklyn Bridge in New York, killing 1 and wounding 

3. 

• 1997.—A Palestinian nationalist opened fire on spectators on the observation 

deck of New York’s Empire State Building, killing 1 and wounding 6. 

• 2002.—An Egyptian limousine driver shot and killed 2 persons at the El Al ticket counter in the Los Angeles Airport. (Although the attacker was labeled a terrorist, his precise motives, beyond killing Jews, were not apparent.) 

• 2009.—Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad (aka Carlos Bledsoe) shot and killed 

1 soldier and wounded another at an Army recruiting office in Little Rock, Arkansas. 

• 2009.—Motivated by white supremacist beliefs, a man opened fire at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, killing 1 person. 

• 2009.—Major Nidal Hasan shot and killed 13 of his fellow soldiers at Fort Hood, 

Texas; 31 others were wounded in the attack. 

• 2012.—An army veteran linked to white supremacist groups opened fire on 

members of a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, killing 6 and wounding 4. 

• 2013.—During their escape, following the Boston Marathon bombing, the 

Tsaernev brothers engaged in a running gun battle with police in which the 

older brother was killed and 1 officer was wounded. (The Tsaernevs had earlier 

killed 1 police officer.) 

Al-Qaeda’s efforts to radicalize and recruit home-grown terrorists have thus far 

yielded only a meager turnout. Between 9/11 and the end of 2012, 204 persons were 

arrested or self-identified for providing material support to al-Qaeda and allied 

groups, including Lashkar-e-Taiba; joining jihadist fronts abroad; or plotting to 

carry out terrorist attacks in the United States. Most of the plots involved improvised explosive devices, but 6 involved planned armed assaults, 2 of which were car-
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ried out (Bledsoe and Hasan). These 2 attacks account for 14 of the 17 fatalities that 

have resulted from al Qaeda-inspired violence since 9/11. 

Sixty-eight of the jihadist terrorist plots uncovered in the United States have involved a single individual. The most ambitious plots involved 3 to 7 attackers. Few 

of the plotters had any training, although some were former soldiers. Only two of 

the plots definitely anticipated suicide attacks. None came close to the sophistication, determination, or personal skills demonstrated in the Mumbai attack. 

NON-TERRORIST SHOOTING RAMPAGES

Mass shootings are not uncommon in the United States, and this appears to be 

a growing problem since 2000. The following were some of the bloodier incidents: • 1999.—Two teenagers, armed with shotguns, a rifle, and handguns, killed 12 

classmates and wounded 24 others at a high school in Colombine, Colorado. 

They had planned to kill hundreds. This is a rare case in which there was more 

than one shooter. • 2007.—A lone gunman at Virginia Tech killed 32. • 2009.—A lone gunman in Kinston, Alabama, killed 10. • 2009.—A lone gunman killed 13 in Binghamton, New York. • 2012.—A lone gunman killed 12 at a theater in Aurora, Colorado. • 2012.—A lone gunman killed 26 at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut. 

The perpetrators in almost all of these cases would be described as at least temporarily mentally disturbed, which speaks to their determination. Nonetheless, they 

demonstrate that 1 person, with little or no training, can acquire and effectively use 

firearms to achieve high body counts. In the above cases, 7 armed individuals killed 

a total of 105 persons, or an average of 15 per attacker, which is close to the results 

achieved in the Mumbai attack. 

The challenge of carrying out a Mumbai-style massacre is not providing individual 

firepower but, rather, assembling the attacking force. The 10 terrorists who carried 

out the Mumbai attack were no doubt selected from a larger pool and trained for 

months. The objective of the training was not simply to instruct them in the operation of their weapons; equally important was selecting the attackers and mentally 

preparing them for a suicide mission—in other words, duplicating the will displayed 

in the homicidal rages of crazed shooters. 

Since members of the attacking team at Mumbai were trained individually, the 

lone survivor was unable to tell authorities if any candidates for the operation were 

deselected because they exhibited insufficient zeal. That would be a limiting factor 

in any home-grown plot where there is no possibility of selecting volunteers from 

a larger pool. It is not simply a matter of getting 10 men together; it is necessary 

to persuade every single one of them to remain committed. Faintheartedness would 

reduce the size of the group and would also risk exposure of the operation. The 

Mumbai attack worked because a larger organization was in charge of it. 

The cases listed above are not typical of active-shooter incidents in the United 

States. Overall, the average number of deaths per attack is 3; the more-accurate 

median number is 2. Typically, the perpetrator is a male whose motives are retaliation for some perceived personal wrong or simply unknown. Forty percent of the 

perpetrators ended the attack with suicide; 46 percent of the attacks ended with bystanders or police forcefully subduing the shooter; only 14 percent ended with voluntary surrender. To end the killing, therefore, requires prompt, forceful intervention. Eight percent of the shooters were killed by law enforcement. 

AMERICAN LAW ENFORCEMENT IS BETTER PREPARED

Analysis of the Mumbai attack shows that local police were poorly trained and 

equipped to handle such an incident, and the National response also had flaws. In 

contrast, police in the United States are better prepared and have gained experience 

as result of dealing with domestic shooting incidents, which have been carefully 

analyzed. The Mumbai attack itself provided further impetus for preparations. This 

does not mean that a Mumbai-style attack could not occur in the United States or 

that casualties would be prevented. It does mean that police would intervene more 

promptly to rapidly resolve the episode. A terrorist shooter would be confronted by 

a heavily-armed response, already on the scene in many venues. For example, a hypothetical terrorist shooter that chose a venue like New York’s Penn Station would 

immediately face armed officers from the NYPD, MTA, PATH, NJRR, and Amtrak, 

and at times, TSA VIPR teams and National Guardsmen. 

In 1975, fleeing IRA terrorists in London ran into an apartment building, where 

they barricaded themselves with hostages, thereby initiating a lengthy siege. Imagine what would have happened had the fleeing Tsaernev brothers done the same. 
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In Mumbai, the attackers’ seizure of hostages, or the mere presence of potential hostages or victims in the hotels, posed a challenge to the counterterrorist responders. 

This also constrained authorities dealing with some of the other terrorist assaults. 

Barricade-and-hostage situations were a more common terrorist tactic in the 

1970s than they are now, and they would complicate the response to a terrorist assault. The United States has experience here. In 1977, 12 members of an extremist 

Muslim sect, led by an individual with a history of mental illness, seized 149 hostages at three separate locations in Washington, DC, initiating a siege that lasted 

39 hours. The event became known as the Hanafi siege. Two persons were killed 

during the initial takeover, but patient negotiations resulted in the peaceful surrender of the attackers without further bloodshed. Political extremism has become 

more violent since then, and a bloodier version of the Hanafi siege could occur. 

CONCLUSIONS

What conclusions can be drawn from this brief survey of history? 

• A Mumbai-style attack is conceivable in the United States, although probably 

not one at anywhere near the scale of the 2008 assault in India. 

• In the terrorists’ current operating environment, it would be difficult to export 

a 10-man assault team from Pakistan or another location in the Middle East, 

North Africa, or South Asia. The jihadist terrorist enterprise has not been able 

to launch a significant terrorist operation in the West since 2005. 

• It is hard to imagine that a terrorist attack on the scale of the Mumbai attack 

that was traced back to Pakistan or any other country would not result in serious consequences for that country’s government. 

• There is at present no known terrorist group in the United States that has the 

organization and human resources to assemble an operation of the complexity 

and scale of the Mumbai attack. 

• Smaller-scale armed assaults have been contemplated by home-grown terrorists, 

although these plans have been immature. 

• The most likely Mumbai-style scenario would involve one to several shooters, 

who could produce significant casualties. The Oslo attack underscores the killing capacity of one determined individual. 

• American law enforcement is much better prepared than local police in Mumbai 

to respond to active-shooter scenarios. 

• An armed assault combined with hostages at multiple locations would present 

the greatest challenge. 

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