### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 1

PUBLIC MEETING FOR THE POLYCHLORINATED BIPHENYLS (PCBs): REASSESSMENT OF USE AUTHORIZATIONS ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING

July 29, 2010

Empire Room Hilton Times Square Hotel 234 West 42nd Street New York, New York 10036

BEFORE: LYNN VENDINELLO, Chairperson DR. MARIA DONA, Director of the National Program, Chemicals Division, EPA Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention DAN KRAFT, Acting Chief, Pesticides and Toxic Substances Branch, Division of Enforcement and Compliance Assistance, U.S. EPA Region 2 DAEMIAN SCHREIBER, Meeting Facilitator, Quantech, Inc.

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: 2 3 MATT WALLACH, Citizens Campaign for the 4 Environment 5 6 AL RODRIGUEZ, Counsel to the Bronx Borough 7 President 8 LOON TULTON, NYC Public School Parent 9 WILLIAM HAWTHORNE, PS 199 PTA 10 ROBERT LEDERER, Bronx Health Link 11 ANJALI KOCHAR, NYC Public School Parent 12 RICHARD BARR, NYC Public School Parent 13 A.C. CUMBERBATCH, Service Employees International 14 Union 32 BJ 15 16 MIRANDA MASSIE, New York Lawyers for the Public 17 Interest 18 RENEE WASHINGTON, Teacher, PS 309 19 DAVID BREWSTER 20 PATRICIA DONEGAN 21 DAN LEFKOWITZ 22 RENEE WASHINGTON 23 GIGI GAZON 24 VERONICA VANTERPOOL 25 MR. ANONYMOUS

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. KRAFT: Hello, my name is Dan 3 Kraft. I'm the acting chief of the 4 Pesticides and Toxic Substances branch in 5 EPA Region 2. 6 I'm joined by Maria Doa, director of 7 the National Program Chemicals Division in 8 EPA's Office of Chemical Safety and 9 Pollution Prevention at EPA headquarters, 10 and Lynn Vendinello, chief of the Fibers 11 and Organics branch in the National Program 12 Chemicals Division. 13 Welcome to the sixth public meeting to 14 gather comments on the issues of EPA's 15 reassessment of its current authorizations 16 for polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) use and 17 distribution in commerce. 18 EPA issued an advanced notice of 19 proposed rulemaking on April 7th, 2010, 20 initiating the agency's potential 21 reassessment of the PCB use authorizations. 22 On June 16th, 2010, EPA extended the 23 comment period until August 20th, 2010, and 24 provided for two additional public 25 meetings.

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 4 1 The purpose of this meeting is to 2 provide an opportunity for the public to 3 deliver comments, information, or data 4 regarding the advance notice of proposed 5 rulemaking. 6 EPA representatives will be available 7 to answer clarifying questions on the 8 comments of the April 7th Federal Register 9 notice. 10 We would like to thank you for joining 11 us today, and we very much appreciate you 12 taking the time this evening to assist us 13 by providing valuable information that will 14 better inform EPA on the state of the 15 environment regarding PCBs in use, now that 16 it has been 30 years since their limited 17 uses were authorized. 18 In addition to the comments received 19 at today's meeting and the previous public 20 meetings across the country, EPA will also 21 be accepting written public comments 22 thorough August 20th, 2010. 23 You may provide those comments via 24 docket number EPA-HQ-OPPT-2009-0757, 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 5 1 through www.regulations.gov., or via mail 2 or hand delivery to EPA headquarters in 3 Washington at the address listed in the 4 April 7th Federal Register. 5 We encourage you to submit written 6 comments in addition to your spoken 7 comments delivered here today. 8 Today's meeting will run no later than 9 9:00 p.m., beginning with a background 10 presentation on the advance notice of 11 proposed rulemaking, and then proceeding to 12 the public presentations. 13 We will have one ten-minute break at 14 approximately 8:00 p.m. There are public 15 restrooms located at the end of the foyer, 16 adjacent to the Empire Room. 17 We ask that each of the presentations 18 be limited to around ten minutes. Today's 19 spoken comments will go into the publicly 20 available docket and be available for 21 public viewing at regulations.gov. 22 Again, thank you for coming today. 23 Lynn Vendinello will give you some 24 background on the advance notice of 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 6 1 proposed rulemaking. 2 MS. VENDINELLO: Thank you, Dan. 3 MR. KRAFT: You're welcome. 4 MS. VENDINELLO: Good evening. Thank 5 you all for coming. I'm going to do a 6 brief overview of the PCB regulations and 7 the advance notice of proposed rulemaking. 8 For those of who were at the last 9 meeting in New York, you might recognize 10 these slides, but I apologize. And the 11 second time around, you may absorb what is 12 being shown. 13 I will cover quickly what are PCBs, 14 what were they used for, what are some of 15 the health effects from PCBs, what is the 16 authority for the rulemaking that we are 17 undertaking today, what is the standard for 18 removing a use authorization, what are the 19 objectives of the rulemaking, what 20 information does the EPA seek during the 21 comment period, what is the timetable for 22 the rulemaking. 23 What are PCBs? PCBs are a group of 24 209 chemical compounds called congeners. 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 7 1 PCB commercial formulations contain 2 mixtures of around 50 different congeners. 3 Approximately 1.4 billion pounds of 4 PCBs were produced in the U.S. between 1929 5 and 1977; and it is estimated that possibly 6 half were released into the environment. 7 PCBs were important in industrial 8 applications because they do not decompose 9 over time, are heat resistant, provide 10 elasticity to plastics, and have low 11 electrical conductivity. 12 Here's an example of the type of 13 products that are uses for PCB: Dielectric 14 fluid, hydraulic fluid, heat transfer 15 fluid; the aspirations, meaning that these 16 are not authorized uses. 17 We have discovered the fact that PCBs 18 were being used in areas where they were 19 not authorized for use such as cutting 20 oils, lubricants, pump oils, carbonless 21 copy paper, plasticizers, caulk and 22 sealants, paints and coatings, rubber, and 23 ink pigments. 24 What are the human health effects from 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 8 1 PCBs? They are both acute short term and 2 long term. Some of the acute effects are 3 irritation, burning of the eyes, face, and 4 chloracne. Some of the long-term effects 5 are liver disorders, reproductive effects, 6 developmental effects, and probably 7 cancers. 8 PCBs also have numerous well 9 documented health effects, including 10 cancer, for animals. And there are a lot 11 more on the Web site. 12 What is the authority for the 13 rulemaking? When the Toxic Substances 14 Control Act was passed in the mid '70s, 15 Section 6(e) generally bans the 16 manufacture, processing, distribution in 17 commerce, and use of PCBs and use after 18 1978, but provides for exceptions based on 19 an EPA finding of, quote, no unreasonable 20 risk of injury to health or the 21 environment. 22 Most of the exceptions take the form 23 of authorizations which include conditions 24 such as location restrictions, repair 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 9 1 restrictions, and concentration limits. 2 The same section of TSCA that banned 3 PCB percent authorizes by rule if they were 4 not in a non-totally enclosed manner in 5 these activities, they will not be found to 6 be an unreasonable risk to the health or 7 environment. 8 The EPA has determined that certain 9 non-totally enclosed PCB use will not mean 10 an unreasonable risk. And in the 11 regulations it's for a period of five years 12 after the effective date of the final rule. 13 At that time the EPA will examine the 14 needs, and that would have put us at 2004. 15 Here we are at 2010. A question you 16 might have is: What is the standard for 17 removing a use authorization? The courts 18 have decided in order for us to remove an 19 existing use authorization for transformers 20 or capacity towers, the standard is that 21 according to the EPA it must be less than 22 arbitrary. 23 It's is much less to remove than the 24 unreasonable burden to establish a use 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 10 1 authorization. And this was tested out in 2 the Fifth Circuit Court. 3 What is the objective of the 4 rulemaking that we are undertaking now? 5 It's to reassess the current authorization 6 for certain PCBs to determine whether now, 7 30 years later, they may now pose an 8 unreasonable risk to the human health and 9 environment. 10 To meet this objective on behalf of 11 the public on many different topics, there 12 is a proposal, and it's rather long. 13 And there are a lot of areas that we 14 would like to take on such as population, 15 market size, the type of equipment, 16 management practices, equipment failure 17 rates, insurance costs -- and, as they 18 reach the end of their useful life -- the 19 removal and replacement costs for equipment 20 to mineral transformers, the impact of 21 severe spills, weather events, and 22 vandalism, the disposal, and metal 23 recycling capacity and costs, environmental 24 impact of all the PCBs and types and 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 11 1 concentrations, such as paint or pigment. 2 I want to mention since there is an 3 interest in caulking in the room, the EPA 4 has undertaken a series of activities in 5 the last two years on PCBs and caulk. We 6 have a series of fact sheet cases and a 7 school information quilt available on our 8 Web site. 9 We recently posted steps on how to 10 renovate and abatement that have PCBs and 11 which provides detailed information to the 12 contractors and building owners when 13 conducting repair, renovations, or 14 abatement activities. 15 We have alerted numerous teachers, 16 parents, and children's health groups and 17 the agency has developed public health 18 levels for PCBs in schools. 19 We are conducting research in several 20 areas including on the source of PCBs and 21 strategies to reduce exposure, and research 22 on mitigation and source characterization. 23 What is the time frame for their part 24 of the rulemaking which is the comments 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 12 1 advance notice of the comment period which 2 will end on August 20th, 2010? When we 3 propose the other rule, there will be 4 another commentary. Here is the address 5 where you can submit the comments and 6 docket number. 7 Once the comment period closes, the 8 rest of the work for 2010 will be to read 9 and review and respond to the comments 10 received. I will be happy to take any 11 clarifying questions before we proceed to 12 the list of speakers. 13 A VOICE: I have a question. 14 MS. VENDINELLO: Good evening. 15 A VOICE: My question was you put down 16 there that caulk is a sealant and has the 17 asterisk next to them, and you said they 18 were not authorized. What does that mean? 19 MS. VENDINELLO: That's a good 20 question. That means that we -- basically 21 they are banned for use. It's not legal to 22 use PCBs in caulk, and obviously they are 23 already there. And when they were used, it 24 most likely was before TSCA was in place. 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 13 1 Authorized means allowed. So it's in 2 there; they must be removed and disposed of 3 properly. We have a series of regulations 4 on the proper cleanup and disposal of 5 unauthorized use of PCB, for example, in 6 caulks. 7 Any other clarifying questions or else 8 we will move on to the speakers? Thank 9 you. 10 MR. SCHREIBER: I will start with the 11 list of pre-registered speakers. Is Matt 12 Wallach pre-registered? Al Rodriguez? 13 MR. RODRIGUEZ: I am here, but I'm not 14 making a statement today. 15 MR. SCHREIBER: William Hawthorne, 16 P.S. 199 PTA. 17 MR. HAWTHORNE: Good evening, 18 everybody, I'm William Hawthorne. I'm a 19 parent of two children at P.S. 199. I'm 20 also the vice president of the PTA. I'm 21 here as a parent and a representative of 22 the P.S. 1999 PTA to express our views on 23 which the EPA has stated its intent to 24 weaken the federal regulations. 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 14 1 PCBs were found more than two years 2 ago at P.S. 11 when The Daily News 3 testified the school found PCBs in excess 4 allowed by federal regulations. These 5 findings were disclosed after a window 6 renovation at the school. 7 Subsequent testing revealed that the 8 PCBs were present in the air of the school 9 in excess of background levels, and the New 10 York Department of Education and the School 11 Construction Authority subsequently engaged 12 in remediation at the school. 13 To date, parents have not been given 14 an assurance that the level of PCBs in the 15 air at P.S. 11 are within the EPA public 16 levels for all of the school children, and 17 that the levels of the PCBs in the air have 18 returned to normal background levels. 19 P.S. 11 is one of the five schools in 20 the New York City pilot for remediation 21 methods for schools during this summer. We 22 understand that the current EPA standards 23 when the PCB contains more than five parts 24 per million was a concern for human health. 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 15 1 The standard for schools nationally is not 2 backed up by the latest scientific and 3 medical studies. 4 On the contrary, the danger of 5 exposing children to PCBs, we believe that 6 it is unprincipled and wrong to weaken the 7 existing standard to protect human health 8 when there is no change in the scientific 9 and medical environment to justify such a 10 point. 11 P.S. 199 and the PTA oppose any 12 weakening of the existing standards, and to 13 institute such a change other than the 14 original regulations which are different 15 are wrong. As advocates of our children 16 and as advocates of the children all over 17 the country and in the existing -- I'm 18 sorry -- in the interest of our children 19 and the staff, we strongly oppose any 20 weakening of the existing federal EPA 21 regulations. 22 Thank you. I'm glad to see everybody. 23 MR. SCHREIBER: The next speaker is 24 Robert Lederer from Bronx Health Link. 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 16 1 Robert. 2 MR. LEDERER: Good evening, everybody. 3 My name is Robert Lederer, and I'm the 4 researcher and policy analyst for the Bronx 5 Health Link, Inc., a clearing house of 6 information for members of the health and 7 human service delivery system of the Bronx. 8 The Bronx Health Link works with the 9 community and health care providers to 10 improve birth outcomes, prenatal care, and 11 the reproductive health of Bronx women. 12 We reach thousands of women and their 13 families through health education and 14 promotion activities that assist women in 15 accessing medical and social services. 16 We also assess community health needs 17 in the Bronx, and are currently completing 18 an assessment of environmental exposures as 19 they affect maternal and child health. 20 Thank you for the opportunity to speak 21 today. 22 The Bronx Health Link is strongly 23 opposed to the proposed rule change 24 announced on April 7th of this year that 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 17 1 could allow the EPA to exempt PCBs in 2 unenclosed caulking from its current limit 3 of 50 parts per million. 4 We stand in support of the courageous 5 parents of the NYC PCB Free Schools 6 Coalition in their insistence that public 7 schools must be made safe from PCB 8 contamination, and that there can be no 9 compromise when it comes to protecting 10 children's health. 11 The important lawsuit for PCB 12 remediation initiated last year by Bronx 13 parents was filed in response to the fact 14 that 400 NYC public schools were built 15 before 1978, and thus may have illegally 16 high PCB levels. 17 Later this risk became even more 18 apparent when the NYC schools released, 19 under pressure from the parents' lawsuit, 20 test results showing that many schools, 21 including several in the Bronx, had PCB 22 exposure levels as high as 4,000 times the 23 allowable limit. 24 It was an encouraging sign when the 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 18 1 EPA helped to broker a settlement agreement 2 of the parents' lawsuit, requiring the New 3 York City public school system to do the 4 pilot studies necessary to assemble a 5 comprehensive plan for removing PCBs from 6 caulking throughout the system. 7 However, now the EPA is backtracking 8 from their historically held position that 9 PCBs at levels greater than 50 ppm, quote, 10 present an unreasonable risk to injury and 11 health, unquote, and that caulk containing 12 more than 50 ppm of PCBs, quote, must be 13 removed, unquote. 14 This has been based on the 15 overwhelming evidence, repeatedly 16 acknowledged by the EPA, that PCBs have 17 been found to have a host of harmful 18 effects on health, particularly in children 19 who are vulnerable to exposure prenatally 20 and through breast milk. Harmful effects 21 have been documented even at low levels. 22 I want to ask the EPA staff members if 23 they can explain what was the basis for the 24 statement about undue burden that would be 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 19 1 created by the removal of PCBs on the 2 schools. 3 MS. VENDINELLO: This is not a 4 discussion. 5 MR. LEDERER: Earlier you were taking 6 questions. 7 MR. SCHREIBER: I'm sorry. 8 DR. DOA: With the undue burdens that 9 would be imposed, all I can saying that 10 schools have so many things in trying to 11 teach kids that the cost is going to be 12 large, and it would take away from the -- I 13 think that's some of the things that some 14 other people in the public were telling the 15 EPA. 16 MR. LEDERER: Is that a legally 17 allowable criteria, the cost of 18 remediating? 19 DR. DOA: This was not a proposed 20 rule. It was sort of put out in 21 juxtaposition of the burden on schools. 22 This is not the proposed school, and the 23 EPA is not proposing that. 24 This is our second public meeting, and 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 20 1 I think we have heard pretty clearly how 2 people feel about that. 3 MR. SCHREIBER: Thank you. 4 The next registered speaker is Anjali 5 Kochar, NYC public school parent. 6 MR. KOCHAR: Good evening, 7 distinguished panel, EPA staff, parents, 8 and friends. Of the I'm Anjali Kochar. My 9 name is Anjali Kochar, and I'm a member of 10 the NYC PCB Free Schools Coalition. 11 I come before you this evening to urge 12 you not to weaken the current regulations 13 governing PCBs in caulk, and to thank you 14 for this opportunity for concerned citizens 15 to have their voices heard on this very 16 important issue. 17 I'm the parent of a student at 18 P.S. 153 in the Bronx, a school which had 19 a, quote, dirty wipe back in April of 2008. 20 That was my first introduction to PCBs, 21 even though I had heard about PCBs in the 22 Hudson River when I grew up in the Bronx. 23 As we all know, PCBs are an excellent 24 binder and were used in caulk in building 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 21 1 materials in the 1960s and '70s, especially 2 in construction in the northeast until 3 1979, when Congress banned their use. 4 When adopting the current standard, 5 the EPA stated PCBs at concentrations of 50 6 parts per million or greater present an 7 unreasonable risk of injury to health. 8 And this finding is based on the well 9 documented human health and environmental 10 hazard of PCB exposure. So my question is 11 why? 12 Why are we looking to weaken the 13 current standard for PCBs in caulk 14 specifically? Has a new scientific study 15 unearthed information that as caulk 16 deteriorates, it doesn't flake and let PCBs 17 escape? 18 Are PCBs not as transient as we once 19 thought? Do they not travel far and wide 20 and penetrate soil or are easily inhaled. 21 Are we no longer exposed to PCBs 22 through the food chain and construction 23 materials? Are PCBs no longer considered 24 carcinogens or causes of respiratory 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 22 1 illnesses? 2 As far as I know, there has been no 3 new study that says any of this. In fact, 4 in recent years studies have shown more 5 associations, not fewer, on low level PCB 6 exposure and detriments to children's and 7 adult health. 8 Again I ask, why now? In the EPA's 9 notice of proposed rulemaking, it states 10 that the EPA is seeking comment on whether 11 the number 50 parts per million should be 12 changed, given the recent realization that 13 the use of PCBs in caulk may be widespread 14 and may be an undue burden for schools if 15 the exclusion continues at 50 ppm. 16 Could this really be the answer to my 17 question? Could it be that the EPA's 18 concern over the economic welfare of the 19 nation's schools will overshadow its 20 mission to protect human health and 21 safeguard the natural environment; air, 22 water, and land, upon which life depends? 23 This is not the time to weaken the 24 current standards governing PCBs in caulk. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 23 1 EPA Region 2 has just entered a 2 ground-breaking agreement with the 3 Department of Education in New York City to 4 conduct a pilot study that will result in a 5 citywide plan for addressing the risks 6 associated with PCBs in its schools, and 7 there are two national studies underway. 8 If anything, it seems as though in an 9 environment in which we've seen the 10 benefits of putting more restrictions on 11 things that can have a detrimental impacted 12 on us and our economy, that we should 13 maintain what we currently have in place 14 until we know more. 15 This is not just about my daughters or 16 your children. It's about all of our 17 children and our children's children. I 18 may be one voice, but that one voice is 19 made up of the voices of other mothers, 20 fathers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, 21 friends who could not be here this evening 22 or who haven't yet been introduced to PCBs. 23 We cannot in good conscience make the 24 presence of PCBs in caulk an acceptable 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 24 1 cost of going to school. Whether it be in 2 New York or nationally, we must safeguard 3 the future of our nation's most vulnerable, 4 our children. 5 After reviewing all of the testimony 6 and information presented, I hope that this 7 panel and your colleagues at the EPA will 8 decide to maintain the current regulation 9 that states that PCBs found at 50 ppm pose 10 a threat to human health and that any caulk 11 that has PCBs at 50 ppm or more should be 12 removed. 13 Thank you. 14 MR. SCHREIBER: Richard Barr, New York 15 City public school parent. 16 MR. BARR: Good evening. Thank you 17 for taking my testimony again. I did 18 testify at the earlier hearing. Listening 19 to some of what I heard that day and 20 thinking about some things, I have a couple 21 of things to add. 22 I'm on the Parents Association at the 23 Bronx High School of Sciences which was 24 built in 1958, I believe, so that it is 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 25 1 within the period. 2 I want to say at the outset that I 3 believe that the EPA should continue to 4 promulgate the strong regulations existing 5 or stronger programs, but at least existing 6 regulations on the maximum PCB levels in 7 school buildings. 8 I think that the problem will get 9 worse and more expensive the more testing 10 that is done and the more we know about how 11 many buildings require adequate 12 remediation. 13 And I think what that will result in 14 is that given that state and local 15 governments are already hard pressed with 16 their budgets and are cutting back and they 17 are required to balance their budgets each 18 year, they will not have the money even if 19 they have the will to address the problem. 20 I want to suggest that I believe that 21 the EPA should urge its top level 22 administrators to push the administration 23 to consider in future plans for stimulus 24 packages, that a substantial amount be put 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 26 1 into the cost of PCB remediation and also a 2 good jobs program with a lot of people out 3 of work, would be a stimulus plan that 4 could employ people to do the remediations. 5 I think that would be a win-win all 6 around. And the only people in this 7 country that could commit money is the 8 Feds. And I hope your bosses can persuade 9 the Obama administration to cope with the 10 enormous problem that will only get bigger 11 the more of the scope of the problem is 12 uncovered. 13 I also think that speaking just about 14 New York City, the lead agency here, the 15 Department of Education has proven itself 16 to be not very diligent in this area or 17 very willing to face and take on the 18 burdens. 19 I heard the previous testimony from a 20 lady who was here today talking about an 21 elementary school in Staten Island and from 22 another parent in the Manhattan elementary 23 school 199 where my daughter went before 24 her current school and attends the middle 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 27 1 school on the top floor and any PCBs the 2 kids were exposed to, she was exposed to. 3 In the case of Staten Island, we had 4 the example of a boy with asthma who did 5 not have a problem breathing in the school 6 until the windows were replaced, and after 7 that needed steroids to get through the 8 day, showing that when the DOE did replace 9 those windows, they obviously didn't do the 10 proper containment procedure and an air 11 airborne pollution problem that was not 12 there before. 13 199 was tested after remediation. And 14 after cleanup, the levels were much too 15 high. While they are willing to do it, 16 they are obviously not willing to put the 17 time and effort and the expense to do it 18 right. Somebody has to force them to. 19 I found it alarming after hearing the 20 two examples when I went back to my school 21 and spoke to the principal who for many 22 years was a science teacher before being a 23 principal, said oh, there's no problem, 24 they replaced the windows here ten years 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 28 1 ago. We don't know yet if there were PCBs 2 in the original caulk or there were not. 3 That she would make the assumption 4 that just replacing the windows when there 5 was a problem, that that's all it would 6 take, if that replacement was begun 7 sloppily and the problem can be even worse 8 shows that there is widespread ignorance. 9 You people should not relax the standards, 10 but really police the issue. 11 I want to make a couple of more 12 points, another example to me of who you 13 are dealing with here in New York City. 14 A few years ago the Department of 15 Education decided to build a campus of new 16 schools on a former industrial site in the 17 Mott Haven section of the Bronx, a former 18 industrial site that was still heavily 19 polluted with industrial residue that they 20 did not test or take seriously. 21 The New York lawyers for the Public 22 Interest had to fight them tooth and nail 23 and they were still in denial, and no one 24 really wanted to do anything to properly 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 29 1 remediate the site before building a campus 2 of five new schools -- or I think it was 3 three. In any case, I don't find them 4 trustworthy. 5 One thing that occurred to me and 6 maybe it's the last thing I'll tell you 7 about. Their answer at that point was we 8 need new schools in the City, and we cannot 9 pick and choose and sometimes we're stuck 10 with the sites we can get. 11 This is interesting because the DOE, 12 if the need for new schools is that acute, 13 they can go to the New York City government 14 that they are a part of and ask them to 15 condemn sites via eminent domain for public 16 schools, which is a valid use of the law in 17 my opinion. But they don't. 18 Instead the City sits by and gives its 19 blessing to private developers for eminent 20 domain and do not consider to do it for the 21 schools. Please do not weaken the laws. 22 Push for the funding that it will take to 23 really addresses this. 24 Know that when you're dealing with the 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 30 1 Department of Education, you don't have a 2 willing partner, I don't think. 3 Thank you. Thank you. 4 MR. SCHREIBER: The next speaker is 5 A.C. Cumberbatch, Service Employees 6 International Union 32 BJ. 7 MR. CUMBERBATCH: Good evening. My 8 name is Ahmed Cumberbatch, and I'm a field 9 representative for the School Cleaning 10 Division at SEIU 32 BJ. SEIU 32 BJ is the 11 nation's largest property service union, 12 representing over 120,000 workers, 13 including 5,000 cleaners in New York City 14 public schools. 15 Thank you for the opportunity to 16 testify today regarding the Environmental 17 Protection Agency's decision to reassess 18 its PCB regulations. 19 Although Congress banned the 20 manufacture and most uses of PCBs in 21 1976-1978, there is evidence that buildings 22 constructed or renovated from 1950 to 1978, 23 including an estimated 266 New York City 24 public schools built before PCBs were 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 31 1 banned, may have PCBs at high levels in the 2 caulk surrounding windows and doors. 3 Just last year the School Construction 4 Authority reported to The Daily News that 5 19 of the schools that underwent renovation 6 work in the summer of 2008 had caulk with 7 PCB concentrations of greater than 50 parts 8 per million, ppm, the current EPA threshold 9 for determining whether removal is 10 required. 11 The EPA's "Background on PCB Exposure 12 and Risk" notes that chronic exposure to 13 PCBs may cause harmful health effects and 14 emphasizes that individuals repairing or 15 dismantling PCB-contaminated products, such 16 as caulk, are at the highest risk when it 17 comes to inhaling air or dust containing 18 PCBs. 19 School maintenance workers, whose 20 daily work exposes them to PCB-contaminated 21 caulk, are likely to have this heightened 22 risk of exposure. 23 SEIU 32 BJ believes that in order to 24 ensure the health of the City's teachers, 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 32 1 students, and school maintenance workers, a 2 broad PCB remediation program is necessary. 3 We strongly support the stated goal of 4 the January 2010 agreement between the City 5 of New York and the EPA to develop a 6 rigorous Citywide approach to address 7 PCB-contaminated caulk in City schools and 8 are deeply concerned that the EPA's 9 advanced notice of proposal rulemaking 10 (ANPR) in the April 7th Federal Register 11 may seek to relax the 50 ppm standard for 12 PCB contamination on specious grounds. 13 The EPA's reasoning that the use of 14 PCBs in caulk may be widespread and may be 15 an undue burden for schools if the 16 exclusion continues at 50 ppr is 17 unacceptable, particularly given the 18 potential health risks to students and 19 workers in public schools. 20 We are not aware of any scientific 21 evidence justifying the relaxation of PCB 22 standards. In fact, the New York Committee 23 for Occupational Safety and Health (OSHA) 24 reported work-related elevations in PCB 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 33 1 levels. 2 This is with good cause. There's a 3 growing body of evidence that associates 4 the disturbance of or proximity to PCB 5 caulks with elevated blood serum 6 concentrations of PCS. 7 For example, a study cited by OSHA 8 showed that workers who were engaged in the 9 removal of PCB caulks had PCB blood levels 10 twice as high as in the age- and 11 sex-matched control groups. 12 In 2005, the EPA stated the use of 13 PCBs in caulking had never been authorized 14 by the EPA, and demanded the removal of the 15 caulk. The EPA stated that because it is 16 illegal and potential for exposure may be 17 significant, PCB-containing caulk must be 18 removed upon discovery. 19 SEIU 32 BJ sees no reason for the 20 EPA to changes its stance now. Given the 21 EPA's previously expressed concerns related 22 to health risks associated with PCB 23 exposure, SEIU 32 BJ does not believe that 24 the fact that the use of PCBs in caulk may 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 34 1 be widespread provided the necessary 2 rationale for the reconsideration and 3 potential relaxation of a standard. 4 If anything, the fact that there may 5 be a widespread presence of PCBs in schools 6 should sound an alarm and prompt the 7 allocation of additional resources and 8 attention towards its study and removal. 9 We strongly urge the EPA to continue 10 its commitment to a rigorous pilot program 11 and Citywide strategy to address the 12 removal of PCB caulk that will result in 13 healthier environments for school 14 maintenance workers, teachers, and New York 15 City public school students. 16 I would like to thank you for giving 17 me the opportunity to speak today. Thank 18 you. 19 MR. SCHREIBER: Thank you. Is Miranda 20 Massie present? 21 MS. GAZON: I'm here instead of 22 Ms. Massie. Thank you for having the 23 second hearing, and thank you for holding 24 it in the evening which allows us time as 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 35 1 parents to make it. You can see they 2 definitely took the time to make it. I 3 extend my thanks to you for doing that. 4 I'm a community advisor in the New 5 York Lawyers for the Public Interest. I 6 work closely with the New York City schools 7 Coalition One, and we provide technical 8 assistance to the parents and their 9 colleagues. 10 We testified at the last hearing and 11 we want to renew any relaxation on the 12 current standard and keeping the 50 ppm. 13 We have organizational partners who this 14 evening are fighting other environmental 15 justice battles who cannot be here. 16 You will be hearing from the New York 17 City Justice Alliance, U-roads in Brooklyn. 18 You will also be hearing from the 19 Center For Health, the Environment and 20 Justice. VJ intends to send you some 21 testimony. 22 I thank you once again. I hope that 23 the EPA takes our comments seriously. 24 Thank you very much. 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 36 1 MR. SCHREIBER: Ms. Washington, do you 2 wish to come to the podium? 3 MS. WASHINGTON: Yes. 4 Renee Washington. I'm a teacher at 5 P.S. 309. A couple of my other colleagues 6 wanted to join me, but because of summer 7 school and commitments to their children, 8 they could not make it this evening. I 9 told them that I would come and say 10 something about the PCBs. 11 We had a meeting at our school 12 June 21st. I think it was a productive 13 meeting, although I think it was very late 14 in the year in June to spring something on 15 a school population. 16 Our PTA parent coordinator and parents 17 were there who spoke out against us being 18 part of any pilot study that we had no say 19 in; we were just chosen. 20 I asked the people there then why 21 where we chosen? What was your plan B if 22 we are going to begin any petitions in this 23 study, our school per se? 24 What was your plan B in case something 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 37 1 didn't work? You said you were trying out 2 a new thing. You were trying out different 3 things at different schools. 4 There was a school in Staten Island, 5 one in Manhattan, one in the Bronx, our 6 school 309 in Bedford Stuyvesant. If 7 things did not work, what was your plan B? 8 We see from the oil spill how plan B 9 was not effective then. We did not want to 10 wait until there was no cap on the PCBs per 11 se. What was the plan B? 12 A lot of the speakers here gave 13 testimony as to why PCBs should be at 50 14 ppm. I will not address that. They did a 15 very, very good job. I will address a 16 situation to give you examples. 17 When they did the remodeling of our 18 school windows last year, going on now two 19 years, I had an after school class. I'm 20 teaching fourth grade. 21 I told the men I'm going to dismiss 22 the children, I will be right back up to 23 get my things, give me ten minutes and I 24 will be out of your way. 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 38 1 Within that ten-minute time period, I 2 took my children downstairs, said a couple 3 of good ace, came back upstairs, and the 4 cloud of dust that was in my room was 5 unbelievable. It was like I was in a fog. 6 Dust was everywhere, everywhere. 7 Where did this dust come from? The 8 men removing the windows, doing the 9 mounting, doing everything they were told 10 to do? Didn't I just say I was coming back 11 in ten minutes? Oh-oh, I forgot. 12 Dust was in the children's desks, the 13 next day when they took out books. Dust 14 was in locked closets. Dust was underneath 15 things. Dust was in sinks, in drawers, 16 everywhere. 17 What did this dust contain? How many 18 years do we inhale that same dust? What is 19 in that dust? We don't know. We don't 20 know. 21 This is the same school that I'm 22 teaching in that I attended in 23 kindergarten. It was built in 1964. I 24 attended kindergarten there. 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 39 1 Now I'm working in the same school. I 2 have been practically in this area my 3 entire life. I want to come back to give 4 back. 5 And I go back to get sick or the 6 parents -- the kids or the parents, friends 7 and everyone else I associate with are 8 going to be sick? Are we talking time 9 bombs? Do we know? 10 You said before you wanted to make 11 sure that these things are taken care of, 12 the caulk is removed safely. What is that? 13 How do you do that? 14 You told us that in June that you had 15 these remediation deadlines and setups and 16 classrooms, you were going to make sure 17 that you were going to take out the caulk 18 and do this and do that. How is that going 19 to be safe for the students, teachers, 20 students, family friends? 21 When they did the remodeling of this 22 school, things were done so sloppily I had 23 to call the UFT offices with Mr. Engels to 24 come out twice and take pictures. Not 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 40 1 once, but twice. Why was that? 2 I'm across the street in a school in 3 Queens where they are remodeling now. The 4 cleanup is not the best, but it was being 5 taken much better than it was in Bed 6 Stuyvesant. This cleanup I live across the 7 street from is in Queens. 8 When I was doing the Police Athletic 9 League at night for the 12 to 19-year-old 10 men where they could play basketball, one 11 night they came in, dust was flying in 12 their faces like it was snowing outside. 13 Why is that? What is going to happen to 14 those young men 10 or 20 years from now? 15 We say that the PCBs are a problem for 16 liver cancers, disorders of the thyroid, 17 immune system, problems with motor skills 18 and decrease in short-term memory, behavior 19 and developmental problems, mothers exposed 20 to regular amounts of PCBs or ate 21 contaminated fish during pregnancy. 22 Why do we have so much level ones in 23 our area? Why don't they want to learn; is 24 that because of PCBs? Can anybody say? We 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 41 1 don't know. This is new ground. This is 2 foreign. We have so many things and so 3 many things that are not settling. I just 4 get frustrated. 5 We have teachers who retired as I, 6 custodians, aides, parents who retired and 7 moved on and -- in three or four years. 8 Then we work to retire and then we die. 9 Why; is it the school building that's 10 killing us? Can't I enjoy retirement? 11 I wish to retire in four years Is my 12 life expectancy four, five or six years 13 after I retire? That is why parents, 14 school assistants and the neighbors, the 15 people living next to the school, there is 16 one reason: They don't trust anything 17 coming from the federal government, people 18 with authority because they have been 19 misled on the whole time of their lives. 20 People have told lies. Would you 21 trust them? What do they say? Fool me 22 once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on 23 me. That's what's happening. They don't 24 trust you. I just want to say that 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 42 1 something needs to be done. 2 I'm sure that not making the parts per 3 million higher is the reason or the 4 thinking that needs to be done. 5 I'm sure with putting our heads 6 together, the age, the brains that we have, 7 we can come up with some better strategy 8 than trying to sweep it under the rug and 9 just say let's raise the parts per million 10 and that will take care of everything, the 11 cost of the cleanup is too much. We cannot 12 turn our backs on this problem. This is 13 not what we should do. 14 If you look into your inner self and 15 find that good person that is there, then 16 please stay with the 50 parts per million 17 that was set, and let's try to put our 18 heads together and find a solution. 19 Thank you. 20 MR. SCHREIBER: Thank you. 21 Veronica Vanterpool. 22 MS. VANTERPOOL: Good evening. My 23 name is Veronica Vanterpool, and my child 24 attends P.S. 153 in the Bronx, one of 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 43 1 several schools that was sampled in 2008 2 and subsequently identified to have PCBs in 3 a random wipe sample. 4 I would like to add my opposition to 5 that expressed by parents, 6 environmentalists, scientists, industrial 7 hygienists, educators, attorneys, and 8 concerned citizens here this evening. 9 The Environmental Protection Agency's 10 proposal to review the PCB regulations for 11 caulk is short-sighted, suspect, and 12 contrary to the agency's mission, and I 13 urge the proposal to be withdrawn. 14 Upon learning of the exceedingly high 15 levels of PCBs detected in caulk at some of 16 NYC's public schools, I was immediately 17 alarmed. 18 My background in environmental policy 19 has made it clear that too many examples of 20 environmental threats have been 21 historically masked or muted by many of the 22 key agencies tasked with protecting the 23 public from those threats. 24 It happened with asbestos and lead. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 44 1 I'm part of a parent coalition known as the 2 NYC PCB Free Schools Coalition, to prevent 3 a recurring situation with PCBs. 4 The dangers of PCBs are noted by the 5 U.S. EPA; state and local agencies; dozens 6 of peer reviewed medical, scientific, 7 environmental, and health journals; and the 8 media. 9 32 years later, the toxicity and 10 danger of this chemical is still frequently 11 written about in articles and reported in 12 the media. A few examples from this month 13 alone: 14 A July 2010 Los Angeles Times article 15 reports that the EPA ordered a toxic waste 16 dump to clean up carcinogenic PCBs 17 correlated to the high rate of birth 18 defects in an adjacent farming community. 19 On July 21st, the Journal of 20 Hypertension noted that exposure of 21 polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) appears to 22 be associated with rates of hypertension 23 and may have an effect on blood pressure 24 control. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 45 1 In Texas, residents have been warned 2 about eating fish from the Trinity River 3 because of PCB contamination and the 4 potential for bioaccumulation. 5 In early July, the Boston Globe 6 reported that the University of 7 Massachusetts at Amherst is removing PCBs 8 from one of its residence communities over 9 the summer because of the presence of PCBs. 10 The PCBs were mostly in the caulking. 11 I understand the pathways of exposure 12 are different. The relevance of these 13 examples is to highlight the alarm, 32 14 years later, of PCB exposure. 15 For this reason, I cannot understand 16 nor support the agency's consideration of 17 lowering the threshold for one pathway of 18 PCB exposure; caulk. 19 The agency's proposal runs counter to 20 its very task to ensure all Americans are 21 protected from significant risks to human 22 health and the environment where they live, 23 learn, and work. 24 Our coalition of concerned NYC public 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 46 1 school parents, elected officials, and 2 advocacy organizations supported the 3 litigation of one concerned Bronx mom who 4 sued the NYC Department of Education over 5 PCB testing in those public school, 6 approximately 500, built before the EPA PCB 7 ban in 1978. 8 That effort culminated in a landmark 9 agreement with the NYC Department of 10 Education to conduct a pilot study that 11 will result in a Citywide plan for 12 addressing the health risks of PCBs in 13 public schools. 14 We were relieved to have toppled one 15 bureaucratic hurdle to safeguard our 16 children's health. Imagine how 17 disheartened and frustrated we are now to 18 learn of the U.S. EPA's intention to relax 19 the restrictions on PCBs in caulk. 20 This unravels our two-year effort to 21 protect our children from PCBs in schools. 22 Our children spend more than 30 hours each 23 week in school. 24 I appeal to your agency to fulfill its 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 47 1 mission and fulfill its obligation to 2 protecting our most vulnerable population, 3 our children. 4 Thank you. 5 I would like to add that cost should 6 not be a consideration. Much like brown 7 sites are known as super fund sites, and 8 that's probably bankrupt at this point, the 9 question should not be a determining factor 10 in moving forward. It doesn't prevent 11 or -- it does not prevent the EPA from 12 identifying brown sites. This should not 13 be a consideration. 14 MR. SCHREIBER: That concludes our 15 list of pre-registered speakers. There's 16 a man in the back of the room. And after 17 that, we will open the floor for additional 18 comments. 19 Mr. Anonymous? 20 MR. ANONYMOUS: He asked for my name 21 and I said I would be Mr. Anonymous for 22 now. Renee Washington who spoke, she's in 23 a school identical next to my school in the 24 same district in Brooklyn. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 48 1 Prior to this capital design project 2 where the windows were installed in 116 in 3 Brooklyn, I had attended meetings on the 4 several million dollars that would be spent 5 on Districts 13, 14, 15, and 16. 6 In attending those meetings, I was 7 aware of the PCB issue prior to 8 construction. 9 It seems in the inner city 10 neighborhoods of Bedford Stuyvesant and 11 Clinton still and Fort Green, all 17 12 schools in Bedford Stuyvesant, the money 13 was spent for outside construction which 14 meant for replacement in Clinton Hill, Fort 15 Green, predominantly Hispanic and black 16 neighborhoods. 17 Both 16 and 13, those schools were 18 also for outside construction. In District 19 14 and District 15, which was Bushwick and 20 Park Slope, those districts, they renovated 21 and spent the money for inside 22 construction. 23 In my school, which happens to be 308, 24 next to 309 there is no air conditioning in 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 49 1 the school built in '74. It's up on the 2 first floor, in the lunch room, no air 3 conditioning in the gym. The school gets 4 so hot now with the insulated windows that 5 they put in, we are doing 80 and 90 degrees 6 up to November. 7 With the populations of children who 8 are needing special needs, the children are 9 scoring ones and twos, I think they are 10 called. And now that is the worst. At one 11 time it was the best. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 50 1 It seems that PCBs which she spoke 2 about, the dust, the men were supposed to 3 start work from 10 to midnight on, they 4 started work at 4:30, and they wanted to 5 get home at 12 or 2 in the morning. 6 They didn't tell the student or the 7 adult population of what I knew, and they 8 did tell the district. And the parents, 9 most of them do not come out to meetings, 10 and they don't know. Now the construction, 11 it was done. 12 The dust she spoke about was 13 happening. I brought it to their 14 attention, and I'm called the whistle 15 blower. That doesn't bother me. At the 16 same time they came and worked a little 17 different but yet the dust was there. 18 The men had monitors going, but no one 19 realized with the PTA meetings and 20 different events and there was a breathing 21 problem with the air, and we were not told. 22 Fast forward, the students and/or 23 professional population have come down with 24 different cancers and strokes, and now in 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 51 1 the two weeks I'm told that I have high 2 blood pressure. Since I blew the whistle, 3 I have no ventilation, an asbestos tile 4 ceiling. I'm 64. And after 48 years of 5 work, when I'm 66 and four months, I will 6 get a check. 7 This is the way I thought my concept 8 of PCBs was happening. I saw some 9 construction men last summer, they didn't 10 have summer school at my school because 11 there was no air conditioning and sent us 12 to another school in Bed Stuyvesant. 13 One day I saw them digging in the 14 ground. The construction worker told me we 15 have to replace the soil; there's PCBs in 16 the soil. I said why is that? He said 17 there's particles in this soil, P.S. 40. 18 And now I'm working at P.S. 40 this 19 summer, and they have new grass growing and 20 new plants are planted. And everything 21 looks healthy around the front of P.S. 40. 22 If you come over to 308, there is no 23 grass growing around the school. There is 24 no plants that seemed to survive. And 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 52 1 where the men worked, there are still 2 tracks and no regrowth of weeds even. 3 There's the school crossing. 4 Everyone is affected. The kids come 5 in -- and I'm next to the nurse's office -- 6 the kids come in saying that they have 7 headaches and upset stomachs. This goes on 8 throughout the year. 9 I'm here at this meeting because I 10 heard about it. The bottom line is I think 11 there's a whole few neighborhoods here and 12 you can't calm these kids down. They are 13 just so wiped out. 14 And I'm an adult, and I lived in 15 Brownsville, the inner city, all my life. 16 They don't even see me. They are like 17 robots. I always said there is something 18 in the air. 19 There is Wi-Fi in the schools. If 20 they don't pass summer school in the next 21 seven days, they will be held over. This 22 year there is 17, and last year there was 23 two. 24 The bus is full because the -- because 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 53 1 they are satisfied about the numbers that 2 have been skewed. There are articles in 3 The Village Voice where the 81st Precinct, 4 a five-part article, where the neighborhood 5 will be turned into a ghost town. 6 You have District 13. Every school in 7 that district has had outside window 8 replacements, and District 16 had outside 9 window replacement. 10 There's a school now at 800 Gates 11 Avenue and -- there's new capital planned 12 out for the 2010-2014 money, and there's a 13 school on 800 Gates where they just put up 14 scaffolding. 15 This -- I'm just saying there's a 16 whole neighborhood this teacher is talking 17 about, and that talking about that has this 18 inner problem that everyone wonders why the 19 young people got their pants wet. 20 With that, I just want to stop. And 21 without going further -- and I can go on 22 and give you at lot more -- I want to give 23 you the essence of what is going on here in 24 the neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 54 1 Thank you. 2 MR. SCHREIBER: I believe a man in the 3 back wanted to make a comment. 4 MR. BREWSTER: Good evening. I just 5 want to speak from the angle of a parent. 6 My son goes to 178 in the Bronx. 7 Growing up, we always had so many 8 dangers to worry about, getting involved 9 with peer pressure, gangs. Whatever the 10 case was, you always told us to go to 11 school and get and the education. 12 With our kids not being safe in 13 school, it's very concerning for me because 14 I made it through the worst. I never 15 really obtained my high school diploma 16 because of the stuff I was involved in. 17 My son is an A student and I do not 18 want him to go to a school that has hazards 19 to his health. There should be no price on 20 kids' health. There should be no price on 21 any one of our kids, any teacher, any 22 principal. 23 If these kids are in danger by any 24 type of thing going on in the school, it 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 55 1 should be removed. These kids should be 2 tested for high levels of PCBs in their 3 bodies. 4 If they are not tested -- and I spoke 5 to a man at the last meeting who told me -- 6 I asked him why the skids were not being 7 tested. He tells me we can catch PCBs by 8 all kinds of stuff in the household, eating 9 foods, what have you. 10 I suggested to him test the whole 11 family. If my sons PCB levels are higher 12 than mine, then we have a major problem in 13 the building where he's going to school. 14 I don't understand why someone would 15 even suggest, to not even the amount of 16 level you are going to test, to hire anyone 17 so that you don't have to go in it and 18 check the dangers to our kids. It does not 19 make any sense to me. 20 Speaking as a parent, there is no cost 21 on protecting our kids. I would die for 22 that. Do you understand? I never had a 23 chance to finish out what I was set out to 24 do. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 56 1 My son has a chance. I'm going to 2 make sure that it's safe for him to go to 3 school and get an education. I think that 4 anyone that has a kid should feel that way 5 too. That's all I have to say. 6 MR. SCHREIBER: I'm sorry. 7 MS. DONEGAN: I'm Patricia Donegan. 8 Some of you might know me from the last 9 meeting when I testified. I didn't intend 10 to testify here. But as I'm hearing you 11 share stories, I'm glad that you are here. 12 I'm the mom of the children from 13 Staten Island. We inherited a mess. We 14 are 33 years from when the EPA identified 15 this problem. They did a window job in 16 Staten Island. I'm sorry what is happening 17 in your neighborhood in Bed Stuyvesant. I 18 think it's criminal what went on. It was a 19 mess. 20 It was a year-long project in my 21 school, and it never once occurred to me 22 with the work on my building that they 23 might be doing something dangerous. I had 24 no idea what PCB was. I didn't really know 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 57 1 on how dangerous it is. 2 We have inherited a mess as a school 3 cities are school system, as a society. I 4 don't know how we can make any regulation 5 shall come more lacks than what we have. 6 They were allowed to come into my 7 son's classroom every night of the week and 8 rip out windows and disturb a dangerous 9 poison, hazardous waste in my child's 10 classroom with no coverings. There was no 11 way that they did kind of construction 12 project in a building where they didn't 13 disturb that. 14 My child's asthma increased 15 tremendously. He had been to the nurse 16 once from kindergarten to third grade for 17 asthma. When they did the windows, he was 18 on three or four steroid inhalers. There 19 was dust control whatsoever in that 20 construction job. Unfortunately what's in 21 that dust is horrifying. We should all be 22 outraged. 23 I heard them talk as a district what 24 went into my jobs. It took one click on my 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 58 1 computer that my school job was 2 $3.9 million to endanger my child and get 3 my child sick. 4 We're talking about the most 5 vulnerable people in our society, children 6 and women of child-bearing age, many of 7 whom are in the building. It's outrageous 8 to me that the School Construction 9 Authority can defend what went on in any of 10 these schools. 11 Never to this date have they tested 12 any of the air from that building. I had 13 an air filter running in my child's room so 14 he could breath. There are six kids 15 breathing with nebulizers. It's sickening. 16 I don't understand how anyone can walk 17 away. To this day it's never been clean. 18 I thought what we would come further than 19 that from what we know environmentally, how 20 exposure and toxins affected our health and 21 how it affects our children. 22 We have seen a huge rise in children's 23 autism, cancer, neurological and 24 developmental delays. They are neuro 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 59 1 toxins. We know that PCBs are neuro 2 toxins. It absolutely scares me to death 3 that they can come in and do that. They 4 exposed everyone working there, nurses; 5 custodial workers came in early in the 6 morning to clean up the construction 7 workers' mess -- 8 At the last meeting there was 9 predominantly the people in the industry 10 who supported the changes in the PCB 11 regulations. 12 What I have to say is that maybe in 13 that industry where they talk about 14 self-regulation, they have the ability to 15 protect their workers. Maybe they are 16 regulating themselves. 17 I don't really know why the talk of 18 caulk is being mixed in. I didn't have the 19 benefit for my child. It never occurred to 20 me that nobody was looking out for what was 21 going on in his classroom. We were never 22 notified. No one in the building who even 23 worked there was ever notified that 24 anything dangerous was being taken out of 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 60 1 that building. 2 I think for whatever reason to raise 3 the 50 ppm maybe in contained spaces, I 4 don't know. If the reason is the burden it 5 is ours, the burden is ours because the 6 kids will get sick because the next 7 generation will not be what their potential 8 is. 9 The burden is ours. It's our 10 responsibility to make sure that there is 11 control on something like this. I couldn't 12 see any less control if I tried. I don't 13 know how we are go to loosen up the 14 regulations on what is going to be done. 15 That's all I have to is to say. I'm 16 sorry for everything here. If you lived 17 through these construction jobs, you have a 18 right to be concerned. 19 My son's blood was tested and he did 20 have exposure of PCBs in his blood. They 21 are able to know about it is in something 22 else other than in food exposure. My son 23 had a congener that showed up that was not 24 related to food. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 61 1 I just hope that we have some impact 2 here with you. Whatever changes they want 3 to put in please leave the unencapsulated 4 use out of it. You will not be able to 5 trust the people that do anything about it, 6 especially in a city as large as this, that 7 they are going to do it right, because they 8 are not. 9 Thank you. 10 MR. SCHREIBER: Thank you. 11 Yes, sir. 12 DR. LEFKOWITZ: I'm Dr. Daniel 13 Lefkowitz. I've been involved with PCBs 14 since about 2005 or '06. I had spoken at 15 the last meeting. I will be very brief. 16 My background and my recommendations 17 to the EPA study were discovered in my 18 son's school in Yorktown Heights. They did 19 a window replacement in 2004. 20 I head the Harwick study about the 21 work in the Boston area, and I asked the 22 EPA, and how do I know that the school is 23 contaminated and I doubt the caulking and 24 the soil was contaminated. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 62 1 And I said that this is in thousands 2 of other schools. And I started to create 3 a Web site, PCBs in Schools, to educate the 4 public, the politicians, whoever wants to 5 read it. 6 I was instrumental in getting the New 7 York Department of Education to implement 8 its regulations as far as cleaning up, as 9 far as PCBs in New York State schools. 10 My position here, the level of PCBs, 11 the 50 ppm, should be lowered down to five 12 ppm. And even if the limit is down to five 13 ppm, if there is no mandate to tested, then 14 to me this is totally worthless because you 15 will have an amount at 49 parts per 16 million. 17 And if the knowledge, be it the 18 school, a hospital or building owner or 19 whatever, a nursing home or what have you, 20 if there is no mandate to test, they will 21 leave it there. And they can do anything 22 possible not to test. 23 I know this for a fact because I have 24 dealt with a lot of different places. I'm 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 63 1 asking the EPA to initiate rulemaking as 2 far as mandated testing. 3 Second of all, I will ask the EPA to 4 mandate fittings for the custodians and the 5 workers. If the maintenance people do not 6 understand how to maintain it or what to 7 look for, it's a worthless deal. 8 This should be treated the same way as 9 asbestos. We should have the same type of 10 regulations for PCB for training and 11 testing. 12 The fourth is to coordinate with the 13 CDC to do blood studies throughout the 14 entire community because the older studies 15 are kind of outdated because the technology 16 is not as sophisticated as we have today. 17 I understand that the EPA, their job 18 is not public health. If it can be 19 coordinated with the CDC to do blood 20 studies, that will be a positive step in 21 the right directions. That's it. 22 MR. SCHREIBER: Thank you. 23 Matt Wallach. 24 MR. WALLACH: Good evening. My name 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 64 1 is Matt Wallach. I'm the Hudson Valley 2 program coordinator for Citizens Campaign 3 for the Environment. 4 Thank you for the opportunity to 5 comment today on the reassessment of 6 current authorizations for PCB use and 7 distribution in commerce. 8 CCE is an 80,000 member 9 not-for-profit, non-partisan advocacy 10 organization working for the protection of 11 public health and the natural environment. 12 The protection of waterways, 13 especially estuaries, is of the utmost 14 importance to CCE. CCE has been working to 15 protect water quality across New York State 16 since its inception in 1985. 17 My testimony will focus on how changes 18 to the Toxic Substances Control Act could 19 benefit the PCB remediation process in the 20 Hudson River. 21 After many years of no action, CCE is 22 encouraged that the removal of PCBs in the 23 Hudson River is now underway. Over 30 24 years, 1.3 million pounds of PCBs were 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 65 1 released in the Hudson River from two 2 General Electric manufacturing plants north 3 of Albany. 4 Since the ban of their use in 1979, 5 the PCBs that were released by GE has 6 remained in the Hudson River and are now 7 present in the river sediment, as well as 8 the living organisms, including fish, 9 wildlife, and people along the 200-mile 10 stretch of the Hudson River. 11 PCBs are responsible for a large array 12 of adverse health effects, including 13 cancer. And their effects multiply as they 14 move up the food chain. 15 CCE supports a full remediation of 16 PCBs in the Hudson River to the point where 17 we will not have to worry about how many 18 fish we can consume before becoming sick. 19 CCE supports the Toxic Substance 20 Control Act's ability to provide the EPA 21 with authority to require reporting, 22 recordkeeping, testing requirements, and 23 restrictions relating to PCBs. 24 While not perfect, the TSCA has rules 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 66 1 and guidelines to ensure the health and 2 safety of wildlife and people. 3 The objectives established in the 4 record of decision (ROD) between the EPA 5 and GE were to reduce PCB levels in 6 sediments in order to reduce PCB 7 concentrations in river water that are 8 above water quality standards, reduce 9 cancer risks and non-cancer health hazards 10 to people who eat fish from the Hudson 11 River, lower the risks to fish and wildlife 12 by reducing the concentrations of PCBs, 13 reduce the quantity of PCBs in sediments 14 that may be consumed by fish and wildlife, 15 and minimize the long-term movement of PCBs 16 down river. 17 CCE supports any reassessments of the 18 current authorizations in the TSCA that 19 advance the goals to have a clean and 20 healthy Hudson River ecosystem. 21 CCE supports changes that employ the 22 best use technology, accurately gauge the 23 depth of contamination, and ensure proper 24 cleanup and remediation of all contaminated 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 67 1 sediments in the Hudson River. CCE 2 supports any changes that require the best 3 available technology to be used in the 4 cleanup process. 5 CCE believes that all technologies 6 should be reconsidered, and the method 7 chosen must have the least impact to the 8 surrounding habitat, wildlife, and public's 9 health. 10 Hydraulic dredging has not been the 11 chosen method of PCB dredging in the Hudson 12 River. The traditional means of dredging 13 has resulted in larger than necessary 14 disturbances of sediment. 15 CCE recommends reevaluating the 16 feasibility of using hydraulic dredging to 17 remove PCB contamination in the Hudson 18 River. 19 CCE supports any changes that increase 20 the amount of core sampling required during 21 the remediation process. A sufficient 22 amount of core sampling must be conducted 23 to accurately gauge the depth of 24 contamination. 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 68 1 Phase 1 of the Hudson River 2 remediation process proved that the extent 3 of PCB contamination is more widespread 4 than previously thought. The depth of 5 contamination of PCBs was wrong during the 6 sampling process resulting in the dredging 7 of approximately 100,000 additional cubic 8 yards of contaminated sediment. 9 The EPS must ensure that a sufficient 10 amount of core sampling is done before the 11 commencement of Phase 2. The accuracy of 12 depth of contamination will result in a 13 more efficient cleanup process, less 14 disturbances of sediments, and the ability 15 to ensure that the contaminated soil is 16 removed. 17 CCE supports changes to more 18 accurately characterize depth of 19 contamination before and after dredging. 20 CCS supports changes that ensure greater 21 enforcement of PCB spills during 22 remediation. 23 The EPA must ensure that during the 24 cleanup process, GE is using all available 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 69 1 technology and resources to ensure that it 2 is capturing any PCB oils that have escaped 3 during the dredging process. 4 CCE supports changes recognizing that 5 leaving or covering PCBs in the Hudson will 6 not be safer for the environment in this 7 unique river ecosystem. Capping or 8 covering PCB contamination does not make 9 the Hudson River safe; it only delays the 10 release of these toxins. 11 Over time, the cap will be washed 12 away, once again exposing the polluted 13 sediment to fish, wildlife, and the entire 14 ecosystem. The EPA must ensure that the 15 Hudson River is returned to a healthy 16 state. 17 Leaving PCBs in the river will 18 continue to threaten the health of the food 19 chain and the public. Capping should only 20 be considered as a last resort for this 21 river environment, but must not be used as 22 a primary option to speed up the process or 23 to reduce cost. 24 CCE supports changes that ensure the 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 70 1 EPA will use legal means to guarantee that 2 GE fully complies with the removal of all 3 PCB-contaminated sediments during Phase 2. 4 Proper cleanup is critical, and regulations 5 need to be in place to ensure that it is 6 done correctly and completely. 7 CCE urges the EPA to not allow any 8 delay on the implementation of Phase 2 of 9 the cleanup. CCE believes that moving 10 ahead without is the only acceptable 11 solution for the Hudson River. 12 Thank you for your time. CCE looks 13 forward to submitting more detailed 14 comments on the TSCA and PCB remediation in 15 the Hudson River. 16 MR. SCHREIBER: Thank you. I see a 17 few hands up already. I believe the lady 18 in the front motioned to me a moment ago. 19 Did one of you wanted to speak. 20 A VOICE: No. 21 MR. SCHREIBER: Okay, Sir. 22 Mr. Barr. 23 MR. BARR: One quick point I wanted to 24 make here, and that is recognizing our 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 71 1 local authority and their recalcitrance. 2 Going into the prior hearing, I heard 3 about the fact that the PCBs in the caulk 4 in schools built between '50 and '78, there 5 was a 50 percent or less chance that the 6 caulk used there is no guarantee that there 7 is PCBs in the school. 8 Being at this hearing, learning that a 9 number of schools that had window 10 replacement and knowing that our school 11 did, I asked around and the people said the 12 best thing to do is get tested and know 13 what you're dealing with. 14 It was recommended that I speak to -- 15 our parent association was talking about 16 how to go about this. Should we try to 17 come up with the money ourselves? Somebody 18 said speak to the principal of the school. 19 And I did. 20 He or she made very clear that they 21 are talking because of fear of attribution 22 from the Department of Education. 23 The advice was started by asking the 24 DOE to test your school. Unless they have 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 72 1 been already been made aware of a problem, 2 they will never go for it. 3 That's how willing they seem to face 4 the problem unless there's a gun at their 5 head. As parents, we have to come up with 6 the money ourselves to have the places 7 tested. 8 Thank you. 9 MR. SCHREIBER: Would anybody else 10 like to come to the podium and make a 11 comment? Then I believe Dr. Maria Doa 12 wanted to make a comment. 13 DR. DOA: Good evening. I am Maria 14 Doa. I'm from the EPA in Washington. We 15 will be remaining here in case other people 16 want to speak. 17 I want to take the opportunity, since 18 there are no other speakers right now, I 19 want to take the opportunity to thank 20 everyone for taking the time for coming to 21 give such excellent comments. I found all 22 of the comments very thoughtful, very 23 compelling. 24 I would like to emphasize that we have 25

### Capital Reporting Company Public Meeting 07-29-2010

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 73 1 heard very loud and clear the caution, as 2 you should be, an issue and the slew of 3 comments on the caulk is in keeping up with 4 the notice with respect to the 5 authorization. 6 This is a very important issue because 7 it affects our children as well as all of 8 us. I want to say that we appreciate the 9 comments that you have provided. 10 We will be taking it back to 11 Washington and into the region, of course, 12 and it will be front and center as we look 13 at and seeing how we will be moving forward 14 on the entire issue of PCBs. 15 Thank you. 16 MR. SCHREIBER: Let's take a 17 ten-minute break because maybe somebody 18 after the break wants to make a comment. 19 (Recess taken.) 20 MR. SCHREIBER: The meeting is 21 adjourned. 22 (Time noted: 8:20 p.m.) 23 24 25

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(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2010 74 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF NEW YORK ) 4 : ss 5 COUNTY OF NEW YORK) 6 7 I, MICHAEL CATANIA, a Shorthand Reporter 8 and Notary Public within and for the State of 9 New York, do hereby certify: 10 That the foregoing transcript is a true 11 record of the proceedings. 12 I further certify that I am notrelated 13 to any of the parties to this action by blood 14 or marriage, and that I am not interested in 15 the outcome of this matter. 16 17 18 _______________________ 19 MICHAEL CATANIA 20 21 22 23 24 25

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© 2010 34:7 47:17 68:7 address 5:3 12:4 25:19 32:6 34:11 37:14,15 addresses 29:23 addressing 23:5 46:12 adequate 25:11 adjacent 5:16 44:18 adjourned 73:21 administration 25:22 26:9 administrators 25:22 adopting 21:4 adult22:7 50:7 52:14 advance 1:4 4:4 5:10,24 6:7 12:1 66:19 advanced 3:18 32:9 adverse 65:12 advice 71:23 advisor 35:4 advocacy 46:2 64:9 advocates 15:15,16 affect16:19 affected 52:4 58:20 affects 58:21 73:7 against 36:17 age 33:10 42:6 58:6 agencies 43:22 44:5 agency11:17 26:14 46:24 agency's 3:20 30:17 43:9,12 45:16,19 ago 14:2 28:1,14 70:18 agreement18:1 23:2 32:4 46:9 ahead 70:10 Ahmed 30:8 aides 41:6 air 14:8,15,17 22:21 27:10 31:17 48:24 49:2 50:21 51:11 52:18 58:12,13 airborne 27:11 Al 2:6 13:12 alarm 34:6 45:13 alarmed43:17 alarming 27:19 Albany65:3 alerted 11:15 Alliance 35:17 allocation 34:7 allow17:1 70:7 allowable17:23 19:17 allowed 13:1 14:4 57:6 allows 34:24 alone44:13 already 12:23 25:15 70:17 72:1 am 13:13 72:13 74:12,14 Americans 45:20 Amherst45:7 amount 25:24 55:15 62:15 67:20,22 68:10 amounts 40:20 analyst16:4 and/or50:22 Angeles44:14 angle54:5 animals8:10 Anjali2:11 20:4,8,9 announced 16:24 Anonymous 2:25 47:19,20,21 ANPR 32:10 answer 4:7 22:16 29:7 anybody 40:24 72:9 anyone 55:16 56:4 58:16 anything 23:8 28:24 34:4 41:16 59:24 61:5 62:21 apologize 6:10 apparent17:18 appeal46:24 appears 44:21 applications 7:8 appreciate 4:11 73:8 approach 32:6 approximately 5:14 7:3 46:6 68:7 April 3:19 4:8 5:4 16:24 20:19 32:10 arbitrary9:22

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© 2010 50:14 attorneys 43:7 attribution 71:21 August 3:23 4:22 12:2 aunts 23:20 authority 6:16 8:12 14:11 31:4 41:18 58:9 65:21 71:1 authorization 6:18 9:17,19 10:1,5 73:5 authorizations 1:4 3:15,21 8:23 64:6 66:18 authorized 4:17 7:16,19 12:18 13:1 33:13 authorizes 9:3 autism 58:23 available 4:6 5:20 11:7 67:3 68:24 Avenue 53:11 aware 32:20 48:7 72:1 away19:12 58:17 69:12B backed15:2 background 5:9,24 14:9,18 31:11 43:18 61:16 backs 42:12 backtracking18:7 balance 25:17 ban 46:7 65:4 bankrupt 47:8 banned 9:2 12:21 21:3 30:19 31:1 bans 8:15 Barr 2:12 24:14,16 70:22,23 based 8:18 18:14 21:8 basically12:20 basis 18:23 basketball

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48:19 C calm 52:12 Campaign 2:3 64:2 campus 28:15 29:1

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© 2010 cancer 8:10 58:23 65:13 66:9 cancers 8:7 40:16 50:24 cap 37:10 69:11 capacity 9:20 10:23 capital48:1 53:11 Capping 69:7,19 capturing 69:2 carbonless7:20 carcinogenic 44:16 carcinogens 21:24 care 16:9,10 39:11 42:10 case27:3 29:3 36:24 54:10 72:15 cases 11:6 CATANIA 74:7,19 catch 55:7 caulk 7:21 11:5 12:16,22 18:11 20:13,24 21:13,15 22:13,24 23:24 24:10 28:2 31:2,6,16,21 32:7,14 33:15,17,24 34:12 39:12,17 43:11,15 45:18 46:19 59:18 71:3,6 73:3 caulking 11:3 17:2 18:6 33:13 45:10 61:23 caulks 13:6 33:5,9 cause 31:13 33:2 causes 21:24 caution 73:1 CCE 64:8,14,21 65:15,19 66:17,21 67:1,5,15,19 68:17 69:4,24 70:7,9,12 CCS 68:20 CDC 63:13,19 ceiling51:4 center 35:19 73:12 certain 9:8 10:6 CERTIFICATE 74:1 certify74:9,12 chain 21:22 65:14 69:19 Chairperson 1:18 chance 55:23 56:1 71:5 change 15:8,13 16:23 changed 22:12 changes 33:20 59:10 61:2 64:17 66:21 67:2,19 68:17,20 69:4,24 characterization 11:22 characterize 68:18 check 51:6 55:18 chemical 1:20 3:8 6:24 44:10 Chemicals 1:20 3:7,12 chief 1:21 3:3,10 child 16:19 42:23 58:2,3 59:19 child-bearing58:6

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© 2010 72:21,22 73:3,9 commerce 3:17 8:17 64:7 commercial

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