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86–829 PDF 2003

S. HRG. 107–924

EXAMINING THE PLIGHT OF REFUGEES: THE CASE

OF NORTH KOREA

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

JUNE 21, 2002

Serial No. J–107–88

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman 

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts 

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware 

HERBERT KOHL, Wisconsin 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California 

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

STROM THURMOND, South Carolina 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

JON KYL, Arizona 

MIKE DEWINE, Ohio 

JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama 

SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas 

MITCH MCCONNELL, Kentucky 

BRUCE A. COHEN, Majority Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

SHARON PROST, Minority Chief Counsel 

MAKAN DELRAHIM, Minority Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts, Chairman 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina 

SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JON KYL, Arizona 

MIKE DEWINE, Ohio 

MELODY BARNES, Majority Chief Counsel 

STUART ANDERSON, Minority Chief Counsel 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

Page

Brownback, Hon. Sam, a U.S. Senator from the State of Kansas ....................... 2

prepared statement .......................................................................................... 53

Kennedy, Hon. Edward M., a U.S. Senator from the State of Massachusetts ... 1

WITNESSES 

Allen, Hon. George, a U.S. Senator from the State of Virginia ........................... 12

Dewey, Arthur E., Assistant Secretary of State, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration, Department of State, Washington, D.C.; accompanied 

by Lorne Craner, Assistant Secretary of State, Bureau of Democracy, 

Human Rights, and Labor, Department of State, Washington, D.C.; and 

James Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, 

Department of State, Washington, D.C. ............................................................. 5

Gaer, Felice D., Commissioner, United States Commission on International 

Religious Freedom, Washington, D.C. ................................................................ 32

Lee, Helie, West Hollywood, California ................................................................. 19

Lee, Sun-ok, North Korean Prison Camp Survivor, Seoul, South Korea ............ 16

Liang-Fenton, Debra, Vice Chairman, U.S. Committee for Human Rights 

in North Korea, Minneapolis, Minnesota ........................................................... 34

Mason, Jana, Asia Policy Analyst, U.S. Committee on Refugees, Washington, 

D.C. ........................................................................................................................ 38

Massimino, Elisa, Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, Washington, D.C. .. 42

Vollertsen, Norbert, M.D., Seoul, South Korea ..................................................... 23

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Allen, Hon. George, a U.S. Senator from the State of Virginia, prepared 

statement .............................................................................................................. 48

Defense Forum Foundation, Suzanne Scholte, President, Falls Church, Virginia, statement and attachments ...................................................................... 59

Dewey, Arthur E., Assistant Secretary of State, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration, Department of State, Washington, D.C., statement ...... 72

Gaer, Felice D., Commissioner, United States Commission on International 

Religious Freedom, Washington, D.C., statement and attachment ................. 75

Kim, Jung-Eun, freelance journalist, statement ................................................... 102

Lee, Helie, West Hollywood, California, statement .............................................. 105

Lee, Sun-ok, North Korean Prison Camp Survivor, Seoul, South Korea, statement ...................................................................................................................... 109

Mason, Jana, Asia Policy Analyst, U.S. Committee on Refugees, Washington, 

D.C., statement and attachments ....................................................................... 121

Massimino, Elisa, Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, Washington, D.C., 

statement .............................................................................................................. 135

Rendler, Jack, Vice Chair, U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, 

statement and attachment .................................................................................. 144

Vollertsen, Norbert, M.D., Seoul, South Korea, statement .................................. 152

(1)

EXAMINING THE PLIGHT OF REFUGEES: THE 

CASE OF NORTH KOREA 

FRIDAY, JUNE 21, 2002

UNITED STATES SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION, COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., in 

Room SD–226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Edward M. 

Kennedy, presiding. 

Present: Senators Kennedy, Brownback, and Allen (ex officio). 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD M. KENNEDY, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS 

Chairman KENNEDY. We will come to order. I am pleased to hold 

this hearing on the plight of North Korean refugees and I thank 

my colleague, Sam Brownback, for his leadership on this important 

issue. He has really been out in front on this matter and all of us 

are grateful for all the good work that he has been doing. 

Recent press reports have highlighted the seriousness of the situation facing North Korean refugees, many of whom have fled their 

native land seeking safe haven, only to be forcibly returned to face 

torture and execution. 

The significant number of North Korean refugees is due in large 

part to the severe political and religious persecution in that country. The U.S. State Department estimates that in 2001, 150,000 to 

200,000 North Koreans were held as political prisoners at maximum security camps. The situation has been exacerbated by the 

severe famine that has plagued the country since the mid–1990s, 

resulting in up to two million deaths from starvation or famine-related diseases since 1994. 

Those who have gotten out of North Korea, most have gone to 

neighboring China. It is estimated that in 2001, hundreds of thousands of North Korean refugees fled to China each month, amounting to somewhere between 10,000 to 500,000 refugees total for the 

year. 

China’s reaction to North Korean refugees has been inconsistent. 

Although China maintains an agreement with North Korea to return North Korean migrants, Beijing has often looked the other 

way as these individuals try to begin new lives in a safer land. 

However, in a number of high-profile cases recently, China has intervened, aggressively rounding up and forcibly returning refugees 

to North Korea, even storming sovereign foreign diplomatic missions to do so. And the Chinese Foreign Ministry has demanded 

2

that foreign diplomatic missions hand over to the Chinese police 

those who have sought refuge on their grounds. 

Beijing officials consider the North Koreans as economic migrants instead of political refugees, and as such, has hindered the 

ability of the United Nations High Commission on Refugees and 

international nongovernmental organizations to comprehensively 

assess the gravity of the situation and set up refugee camps. I look 

forward to the testimony of our witnesses as they will be able to 

shed greater light on this critical situation. 

This week, the Senate passed a measure sponsored by Senator 

Brownback, which I was privileged to cosponsor, encouraging North 

Korea, China, and United States to work toward the favorable resolution of this dire situation. Clearly, the United States must play 

a significant role in addressing the needs of these vulnerable individuals. The severity of the situation and our tradition of commitment to refugees require it. 

While the focus today is on the plight of the North Korean refugees, we must remember that the number of refugees around the 

world has increased steadily in recent years and our commitment 

to all these individuals is more necessary than ever. 

I look forward to the testimony of our distinguished witnesses 

and to working with our colleagues to effectively address the situation in North Korea and other parts around the world, where far 

too many refugees languish in need of our assistance. 

Senator Brownback? 

STATEMENT OF HON. SAM BROWNBACK, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF KANSAS 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and 

thank you very much for your leadership and for hosting this very 

important hearing. 

The purpose of this hearing should be clear and its message 

should be direct. The North Korean refugee crisis has been neglected for too long, partly because many, including the Chinese 

government and others, wish it would just go away. As the graphic 

reports of North Korean asylum bids at foreign embassies show, 

this problem will only continue to escalate. 

As you know, Mr. Chairman, our resolution on North Korea 

unanimously passed the Senate this week. That resolution expresses four key points which should serve as guiding principles for 

us in this hearing. First, forced repatriation of the North Korean 

refugees constitutes a violation of international law. Therefore, the 

Chinese government should immediately stop the forced repatriation of North Korean refugees. 

Second, the Chinese government should allow the international 

community to provide open and direct assistance, such as medical 

aid and proper facilities, to these North Korean refugees. 

Third, the United Nations, with the cooperation of the Chinese 

government, should immediately conduct an investigation of the 

conditions of the North Korean refugees as soon as possible. 

And fourth, North Korean refugees should be given legal refugee 

status in accordance with international law. 

Regarding that last point, I am reviewing various legislative options, including one that parallels a law from the early 1990s that 

3

helped thousands of Soviet Jews and others persecuted for their 

ethnic or religious backgrounds caught in the breakup of the Soviet 

Union. I am grateful to the many in the refugee advocacy community who have offered their support in helping us craft a bill or an 

initiative that may similarly help North Korean refugees. These organizations, many of which were involved with the legislation back 

in the 1990s, include the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, the Lawyers’ Committee for Human Rights, the Southeast Asian Resource 

Action Center, the National Association of Korean Americans, the 

U.S. Committee on Refugees, and others. 

Let me also add that my office received word last night that a 

number of leading refugee advocacy groups are ready to immediately assess assistance needs and relief programs if and when the 

North Korean refugee processing initiative is started in China. 

They are ready to go now. These groups include Doctors Without 

Borders, which I understand withdrew from North Korea a few 

years ago, the Citizens Alliance for North Korean Human Rights, 

one of the leading groups involved with North Korean refugees, 

Life Funds for North Korean Refugees based in Japan, the Korean 

Peninsula Peace Project, and others. They are ready to go and to 

help now. 

North Korea is today’s killing field where millions of people, considered as politically hostile or agitators or just being innocent children, starve to death while those in power enjoy luxurious lifestyles, spending billions of dollars on weapons and actively engaged 

in the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. 

Former President Ronald Reagan stated our nation’s tradition 

best when he said this. ‘‘A hungry child knows no politics.’’ Well, 

every famine is complicated by politics. The North Korean famine 

is the most complicated politically that many of us have seen in a 

long time. Politics is killing people, literally. 

How the U.S. and the world community can most effectively express its sympathy and concern for the North Korean people and 

help the North Korean people, including refugees currently in 

China, which the chairman stated that we believe is somewhere in 

the neighborhood of 150,000 to 200,000, is the issue before us 

today. 

If I may, I would also like to warmly welcome our distinguished 

witnesses on the panels that we are going to have who are present, 

particularly two. Ms. Soon Ok Lee is a North Korean prison camp 

survivor. Her book, which my wife and I read two weekends ago, 

is a chilling, chilling report of what is taking place in North Korea 

in the prison camps, Eyes of the Tail-less Animals. It is an incredible account. I also welcome Dr. Norbert Vollertsen, an activist on 

behalf of North Korean refugees. Both of them have traveled here 

from Seoul, South Korea. 

I would also like to welcome Ms. Helie Lee, who has recently 

published memoirs about her successful effort to bring her uncle 

out of North Korea. It highlights the largely hidden and painful secret among many Korean Americans who still have family members trapped in North Korea and China. I understand as many as 

one in four Korean American families have family members still 

trapped in North Korea. 

4

I look forward to working with you, Mr. Chairman, on some legislative vehicles to help North Korean refugees and I thank you for 

holding this hearing. 

Chairman KENNEDY. It is a privilege to welcome back Gene 

Dewey, who has already appeared before this committee once this 

year. He has been a distinguished leader at the Department of 

State. He serves as Assistant Secretary of the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration. In that role, he is responsible for 

overseeing U.S. Government policies regarding population, refugees, international migration issues, and managing refugee protection, resettlement, and humanitarian assistance. Previously, he 

served five years as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Bureau 

for Refugee Programs and he was named a United Nations Assistant Secretary General. He served four years in Geneva as the 

United Nations Deputy High Commissioner for Refugees. 

I am honored he has come back to testify and look forward to his 

testimony on this critical issue. 

It is a pleasure to have Lorne Craner, our Assistant Secretary of 

State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, responsible for coordinating U.S. policies and programs that promote and 

protect human rights and democracy around the world, goals which 

he pursued throughout a distinguished career. Previously, he 

served as President of the International Republican Institute, 

which works to promote democracy, free markets, rule of law 

throughout the world. He also served as Director of Asian Affairs 

at the National Security Council, Deputy Assistant Secretary of 

State for Legislative Affairs. We are delighted to have him here. 

And I am privileged to introduce James Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs. He has had a 

long and distinguished career in international affairs. Before assuming his current position, he was President of the Pacific Forum 

of the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Honolulu. 

Before that, he served as Special Assistant for National Security 

Affairs for President Ronald Reagan, as the Senior Director for 

Asian Affairs in the National Security Council, and as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for National Security Affairs at the 

Pentagon. I am honored to welcome him. 

We have Senator Allen here, who has a key interest in the subject matter. We are delighted to welcome him to our panel. 

Senator ALLEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman KENNEDY. Mr. Dewey, Secretary Dewey, we will be 

glad to hear from you. 

5

STATEMENT OF ARTHUR E. DEWEY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY 

OF STATE, BUREAU OF POPULATION, REFUGEES, AND MIGRATION, DEPARTMENT OF STATE, WASHINGTON, D.C.; ACCOMPANIED BY LORNE CRANER, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 

STATE, BUREAU OF DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND 

LABOR, DEPARTMENT OF STATE, WASHINGTON, D.C.; AND 

JAMES KELLY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EAST 

ASIAN AND PACIFIC AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF STATE, 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Mr. DEWEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to you and 

your committee for the opportunity to discuss the plight of the 

North Korean asylum seekers in China. 

We do not have a lot of information about what goes on in North 

Korea and we have little information also about the situation on 

the border with China, but we certainly have enough to realize that 

this would rank on anyone’s short list of the greatest manmade disasters in the world. It is a horrific humanitarian tragedy. 

Under North Korean law, for example, the very act of an unauthorized departure from North Korea for China or for anywhere is 

grounds for prosecution, which amounts to persecution. 

President Bush said during his February visit to Seoul this year, 

‘‘North Korean children should never starve while a massive army 

is fed. No nation should be a prison for its own people.’’

Thousands of people have fled into China in search of food and 

work and to flee persecution. We place a particular priority, as has 

been mentioned, on the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees getting access to the border region in order to set up a process to sort 

out who these people are and to identify those that have a legitimate claim to asylum. That is not possible now, as has been stated. 

A second role that makes it importance for a presence there of the 

High Commissioner for Refugees is to be a watchdog against pushbacks against refoulement to North Korea. 

In recent days, we have witnessed desperate measures taken by 

individual North Koreans to avoid push-backs and to gain asylum. 

North Koreans have run the gauntlet. They have sought refuge in 

foreign embassies and consulates in Shenyang and Beijing. Onward 

settlement to South Korea has been negotiated for most of them, 

but 20 still remain in the South Korean embassy in Beijing and 

two in the Canadian embassy. One person was forcibly removed in 

an intrusion into the South Korean embassy and remains in Chinese hands. 

This transgression of diplomatic premises strikes at the very 

heart of the conduct of international diplomatic relations. It represents a serious violation of the Vienna Convention, and, of 

course, we are concerned about the violations of the Geneva Convention and the protocol to that convention in 1967, which China 

has signed, with the evidence that we do have of persons that have 

been pushed back to persecution and perhaps even death in North 

Korea. 

In a normal setting, which this is not, a person seeking resettlement in a third country would contact the U.N. High Commissioner 

for Refugees, requesting a referral for resettlement. But in this situation and for security reasons, North Korea is one of the countries 

where there is a requirement for U.S. officials in the field to get 

6

State Department and INS approval to accept referrals for asylum 

in the United States. 

To discuss briefly what we are doing now in response to this situation, the UNHCR is pressing for a high-level meeting in Beijing 

to deal with this matter. They have had meetings in Geneva to try 

to set this up and this is in train and, of course, we are strongly 

supporting it. We have repeatedly pressed China to adhere to the 

1967 Protocol, which they have signed, to allow UNHCR access to 

the border region and to asylum seekers. 

The Department of State is also in the middle of a policy review 

on North Koreans in China. This is not diplomatese, Mr. Chairman, for simply studying the problem or reviewing the problem or 

keeping a watching brief on the problem. This is a serious effort 

to work the problem and to find solutions that will work. 

Let me also say that with respect overall to admissions to the 

United States that despite the security restrictions which were 

mandated by the events of September 11 of last year, this administration is committed to keeping the door open to refugees. The fact 

that any have been brought in represents somewhat of a miracle, 

given the hurdles that have been agreed by the Congress and the 

interagency community in Washington to make sure the security of 

American citizens is maintained. 

But I welcome the opportunity in this setting to explore any 

ideas you may have concerning our admissions program, either 

here today or in our annual admissions consultations with Secretary Powell next Tuesday. 

I would like to submit my full statement for the record and look 

forward to working with you on this important problem of North 

Koreans in China. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman KENNEDY. Thank you very much, Secretary. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Dewey appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Chairman KENNEDY. We will do ten-minute rounds, if that is all 

right. 

It appears that the Chinese are hardening their stance towards 

refugees. While in the past they often looked the other way or 

agreed on humanitarian grounds to allow certain refugees to travel 

to other countries, the Chinese Foreign Minister recently sent a 

note to all diplomatic missions demanding they cooperate with the 

Public Security Bureau, the Chinese police, and hand over any 

North Korean. They argue that foreign missions have no right to 

grant asylum on Chinese territory. 

Now, I understand that at least two countries, Canada and South 

Korea, have rejected the note. Can you tell us what the State Department’s position is on that diplomatic note? 

Mr. DEWEY. The State Department position is clear, that although we have not formally rejected, to my knowledge, we have 

made it clear to the Chinese that there has to be a process. That 

process has to be respected. They have signed the 1967 Protocol, 

which if they do not agree to a process whereby the U.N. High 

Commissioner for Refugees plays its role in this process, they are 

making of that protocol little more than a perishable piece of paper. 

We have made that very clear and we will continue to make that 

clear to the government of China. 

7

Chairman KENNEDY. Well, what does that mean? Does that 

mean you accept it or do you reject the note? How long are you 

going to have to go through the process before you reject it? I do 

not understand. You said, ‘‘Our position is clear,’’ and then you 

said, ‘‘They have to go through a process and we are going to continue the process.’’ I do not quite understand what that answer 

means. Are you rejecting their position? Are you accepting their position for a period of time? What is exactly the status? 

Mr. DEWEY. It is a de facto rejection. 

Chairman KENNEDY. Flat out rejection? 

Mr. DEWEY. We are not handing them over. 

Chairman KENNEDY. The fact that China considers the North 

Korean refugees economic migrants has allowed them, obviously, to 

keep any foreign NGOs and the U.N. High Commissioner out of the 

region. Recent press reports indicate there are some aid workers on 

the ground who have been arrested. There have been crackdowns 

on 180 North Korean refugees on the Chinese side. Can you confirm that the reports are true? Can you detail incidents of humanitarian aid workers being arrested in China and North Korea? 

Mr. DEWEY. I would like to refer to Secretary Kelly, perhaps, on 

that. He may have more recent information. 

Mr. KELLY. Mr. Chairman, I do not have specific information on 

that, but I have seen the same reports that you have. I am not 

aware of relief workers in North Korea, because they are very few 

in number, of having been interfered with or arrested, but I have 

heard the reports, and consider them highly credible, of interference with relief workers in the Northeastern part of China. 

Chairman KENNEDY. We would appreciate any material that you 

can provide for us. 

Mr. KELLY. I will certainly do that, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman KENNEDY. We know that North Korea is one of the 

most oppressive governments in the world. Many flee in persecution by the regime and would be able to establish the well-founded 

fear of persecution to qualify. So the problem we face is how to access this population in China, where most have fled. Under the circumstance, China is unlikely to let the U.N. High Commissioner 

operate independently inside its borders. One option is to organize 

a multinational effort to establish temporary resettlement camps in 

China that would serve as way stations for permanent resettlement 

in third countries. 

To make the option work, the U.S. would have to play a leading 

role in underwriting this effort and accepting North Korean refugees for resettlement. We have done this in other places. We have 

done this in Thailand, for example. Is the administration willing to 

consider that, or is it under consideration? 

Mr. DEWEY. Yes, Mr. Chairman. The administration would consider that as an option, a role for international organizations other 

than UNHCR, organizations that move people, organizations that 

you are familiar with that have been very helpful in the past, the 

International Organization for Migration, for example. That can 

help us get around certain sensitivities of continuing to use the 

word ‘‘refugee.’’ If we could get agreement by the government of 

China that those people could be moved to places for settlement, 

this would be one agency that could help. 

8

Chairman KENNEDY. Is this something that you have tried to 

suggest to the Chinese yet? Will you try? What should we assume? 

You think it is a good idea? 

Mr. DEWEY. What you can assume is it is a good idea. It has to 

be part of a negotiating package—

Chairman KENNEDY. I agree. 

Mr. DEWEY. —that needs to be dealt with the Chinese—

Chairman KENNEDY. But it has to get on the agenda to become 

part of a negotiating package. 

Mr. DEWEY. And it has to be on the agenda for South Korea, as 

well. 

Chairman KENNEDY. What are you telling us? Are going to put 

it on the agenda? 

Mr. DEWEY. We will make that part of the agenda, part of the 

package. 

Chairman KENNEDY. Good. Please keep us abreast of how that 

is going. We would like to be helpful to you. 

Mr. DEWEY. We would like to work this—

Chairman KENNEDY. We want to work with you to try and indicate our of support. 

Finally, let me ask you, would the State Department be willing 

to designate North Korean refugees as a priority category to facilitate their resettlement in the U.S.? 

Mr. DEWEY. I think it is too early to give you a yes or no response on the willingness. It certainly would be a question that we 

would take into account if that would appear to be useful. 

Right now, of course, as you know, the offer, or the law of South 

Korea does provide, makes it automatic citizenship for persons who 

were born on the peninsula of a Korean father, that they have citizenship rights in South Korea, so that should be taken into account 

first. 

Chairman KENNEDY. Senator Brownback and I will be talking to 

the Department on numbers, because we have very restricted numbers in any event, but it would appear that these refugees certainly 

should have special consideration if we are able to set up a process. 

Even taking into account the Chinese response, I would ask if the 

United States is prepared and willing to be the principal responsible nation in terms of the resettlement if we set up this process? 

I think we have got to have an answer to that. Otherwise, if we 

say we are not quite sure about that but we still want to settle it 

up, I think you would have a difficult time in convincing them. So 

I think this is something that we would be glad to work with you 

on in terms of trying to indicate that we are prepared to play a full 

role and be responsive to these very, very special and important 

and significant national needs. 

Senator Brownback? 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and 

Mr. Dewey, members of the administration, I appreciate you being 

here. I have got several questions I would like to ask. They are 

somewhat follow-ups to, in some cases, Senator Kennedy’s. 

If you go right on this issue of the special refugee category, the 

P–2 category, Secretary Dewey, under that existing P–2 category, 

we admit refugees only from a very small number of countries, 

such as Iran, former states of the Soviet Union. As I have said, 

9

North Korea strikes me as an excellent candidate for P–2 classification. Can you elaborate some on what the administration is discussing in granting this P–2 category for North Korean refugees? 

This, it seems to me, would be custom made for this type of situation we are seeing today. 

Mr. DEWEY. It is too early, Senator, to say that that is actively 

under discussion, as I say, the situation for South Korea really has 

to be addressed in this context first. But, as you also know, in our 

efforts to bring in as close to the ceiling as possible this year, admissions, that we are looking at every possible P–2 category in the 

world. So you are right. There may be a point where North Koreans would join this category. 

Senator BROWNBACK. What is the hesitancy here? I mean, you 

have got a high level of persecution taking place in North Korea. 

You have starvation. You have the world community feeding a 

third to a half of the North Korean population. You have people 

fleeing just to remain alive. If you stay for the next panel or two, 

you are going to hear some eyewitness accounts of horrific situations. I would think there would not be any hesitancy here. 

Mr. DEWEY. I do not think there is any hesitancy in the United 

States taking a leadership role in solving this problem, of working 

this problem and working toward a solution, and the leadership 

role is going to require going through several steps of a process. It 

is going to require the UNHCR getting the access to determine who 

these people are, which ones do have a legitimate claim to asylum 

and resettlement. That has to be worked in sequence. That is what 

we are taking a leadership role on, getting the Chinese to permit 

this access by the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. 

I think, step by step, yes, we will come to the P–2 category point. 

But it should be done in an orderly sequence with our leadership. 

Senator BROWNBACK. As we go in an orderly sequence here, people are dying in this process. Can you give us any time frame that 

we could expect some decisions to be made in a thing like this P–

2 category? 

Mr. DEWEY. I cannot give you a time frame except that we are 

attaching the utmost urgency to this, to getting the steps that 

would lead up to that accomplished. 

Senator BROWNBACK. I hope you can stay to listen or at least 

watch the video of some of the next panels that we are going to 

have. I have talked with these people ahead of time and their stories will not let you sleep at night. If you are in a position to be 

able to help some of these people get out, and we are and you are, 

I would think we really need to move with some speed and some 

urgency here. 

Mr. KELLY. Senator Brownback, I think it is important to keep 

in mind that all of these people can now be resettled in the Republic of Korea, in South Korea, which has an elaborate procedure and 

facilities set up to receive and resettle these people who are, after 

all, Korean. Now, those individuals who have relatives in the U.S. 

and other claims for U.S. citizenship should certainly come here. 

But the first trick, sir, is we have got to get them out of China, 

and when we get them out of China, I would argue that the presumption probably should be the first destination should be the Republic of Korea, and if there is some reason, and I am not aware 

10

of any reason that these people would be left adrift or be left to 

the insensibilities within China, then we ought to take them. 

But at the moment, and I have had assurances on this from the 

Republic of Korea even this week, they are in the process of expanding their facilities and they are ready, willing, and able to receive and fund in a rather generous fashion what they claim to be 

an unlimited number of such people. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Let me ask you about a couple of other 

issues. What level of contact have we made with the Chinese officials about letting people that get from North Korea into China to 

pass on through to a third country? Have we made that at the Secretary of State level, to urge the Chinese? Has this been a communique at that level? 

Mr. DEWEY. If I could, Senator Brownback, I think that since 

Secretary Kelly—

Mr. KELLY. There have been many contacts. This is not a new 

issue, Senator Brownback, and it has been brought up in the 14 

months since I have been Assistant Secretary. I have been present 

for a number of discussions. We threw together hastily a list, which 

I would be happy to provide for the record, of some 15 contacts. To 

the best of my knowledge, this is not one of the issues that has 

been raised by Secretary of State Powell with the Chinese leadership. It has been raised by me and by numerous other American 

officials, including our Ambassador to Beijing and various people of 

our respective staffs. 

Senator BROWNBACK. I appreciate that you have raised it, but I 

do hope we can press it on up, as well. At the higher levels, as Senator Kennedy says, we have got to get it on the agenda. That is 

a key thing, and China is critical in this issue, to either allowing 

some refugee processing or allow them to pass on through to a 

third country that would be involved. 

As the U.S. Government looks to perhaps have discussions with 

North Korea and has been pressed to put forward an agenda in its 

discussions with North Korea, is the issue of refugees and allowing 

their resettlement on that discussion list? 

Mr. DEWEY. I have responsibility for that, Senator Brownback, 

and it absolutely is on our agenda for the talks with North Korea. 

As you may have noted from the press, our Special Envoy, Ambassador Pritchard, met with the North Korean mission in New York 

a week ago today to offer our beginning of talks. We expect direct 

talks with North Korea to begin in a matter of weeks and not 

months, and human rights is an important part of the agenda and 

these refugee issues are an important part of that agenda. 

Senator BROWNBACK. It will be on the agenda and discussions 

with—

Mr. DEWEY. It definitely will be raised, Senator Brownback. 

Senator BROWNBACK. That is excellent. I am very pleased to hear 

that that is the situation and that is going to be pressing forward. 

Mr. Dewey, we are going to be talking with the Secretary of 

State next week about the number of refugees that the United 

States is allowing in. I saw a press report about a week or so ago 

that said we had only allowed in 17,000 to date this past year, and 

that was about two weeks ago. How many have we actually allowed 

into the United States, the current year that we are in? 

11

Mr. DEWEY. It is actually about 16,000. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Sixteen thousand? And what is the level 

that we have set at the top end of this for this year? 

Mr. DEWEY. The top end ceiling is 70,000. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Okay, and that is for the remainder of the 

year? Is that a fiscal year? Is that a calendar year? 

Mr. DEWEY. That is for the fiscal year. 

Senator BROWNBACK. So the fiscal year ending the end of September. Is there any way we are going to get anywhere close to 

that top number, then? 

Mr. DEWEY. Senator, we are going to get as close as is humanly 

possible to get to that number. It appears now, if we project from 

current expectations, it will fall somewhat short. But any falling 

short is not due to any lack of commitment by the administration 

or work on the part of my Bureau and Jim Ziglar at INS to make 

this happen. As you know, you had the commitment from both of 

us at our initial hearing on this subject that we were going to fast 

track, we were going to streamline, we were going to work these 

security restrictions to the maximum extent. 

Jim Ziglar and I set up a joint task force which meets every 

week. We have gone into a crisis mode to deal with this. I have assigned one of my deputies, Mike McKinley, as the battle captain for 

this crisis action team that is working it with INS and with the 

FBI and with the NSC. We have this team that meets every week. 

We go problem by problem. We work out solutions to these problems. And so any failure to come up to 70,000 is not going to be 

due to lack of commitment, lack of effort, lack of force and energy. 

What we are also seeing as we deal with these problems and 

overcome these problems, we are building an infrastructure and we 

are salvaging and repairing a very broken and, in many ways, sick 

admissions system to the United States. This rebuilding process is 

going to serve us very well in 2003 and years beyond because of 

the infrastructure we are putting in place, the work we are doing 

with referral agencies, such as the High Commissioner for Refugees, the increased money we will be putting into UNHCR to increase their infrastructure for referrals of such categories as the P–

2 categories that you mentioned. 

Senator BROWNBACK. As we look to the next year and our meeting next week, I think we should have North Korea well in our 

view as possibilities. 

With the plight that is taking place, these are obviously very desperate people. A number are starving. They are rushing the embassies. This is happening on a weekly, if not daily, basis in China 

now. It strikes me that this is just the front end of this and that 

you probably are doing some extensive planning, or I hope you 

would be, for more that would be coming. If boats start arriving in 

the U.S. with North Korean refugees, are we going to be prepared 

for that situation if that were to occur? 

Mr. DEWEY. I would hope, Senator Brownback, that anyone advocating pushing, encouraging North Koreans to run this dangerous 

gauntlet would face up to the fact that this administration is seriously working the problem and seriously committed to getting a solution to this problem and that they would take into account the 

12

risk that they may be putting these persons in by encouraging this 

kind of action. 

We have seen this done with other groups of people in the past 

in other parts of the world and we know the tragic consequences 

of it. Part of it may be lack of communication—they do not trust 

the government to really be working on problem solving. Believe 

me, they can trust this government. We are working this problem, 

just as we worked our problems in the past that I referred to the 

chairman about. We have used creative tools and methods and 

have used the influence and leadership of the United States to 

solve it. This is what we are doing and this is what we will do with 

this problem. 

Senator BROWNBACK. I would just urge you to get the process in 

place of how we are going to deal with this and this issue of P–

2 categories, get that in place because if not, I am afraid then that 

is going to push desperate people to be doing more desperate 

things, if they do not see a clear process, if they do not see clear 

things happening in a fairly short time frame, because by our numbers, large numbers are starving. By our numbers, we are feeding 

much of the North Korean population today. By our numbers, there 

are 150,000 to 200,000 of these refugees in China. 

It looks like to me this is something clearly building, and we 

have seen this happen before. I really hope we would have this in 

place and announcing it soon of what our actions are going to be 

and be very, I would think, fairly public about here is where the 

U.S. is and we stand to help the North Korean people. 

Mr. DEWEY. I certainly hear what you are saying, Senator, and 

I want you to know that we appreciate, since we have the same objectives, we appreciate your support in this as we go along, and I 

would like to be able to consult closely with you and the members 

of the committee for your input, your advice, and to keep you up 

to speed on what we are doing. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman KENNEDY. Senator Allen, we are glad to welcome you. 

STATEMENT OF HON. GEORGE ALLEN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF VIRGINIA 

Senator ALLEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 

holding this hearing. I appreciate your leadership as well as that 

of Senator Brownback on this issue. The more and more that 

Americans and others around the world see the plight of the North 

Koreans, they will naturally and instinctively want to help those 

who are seeking to create lives of greater freedom and opportunity 

for themselves and their young people. 

I am on the Foreign Relations Committee and first became aware 

of this when a family called me. The Kim Han Mee family, fortunately, got out of North Korea. I appealed in early May to the Ambassador of China to let the Kim Han Mee family go to South 

Korea. While there is going to be some concern expressed by me 

and others about China, I think as a matter of courtesy and diplomacy, it should be recognized they responded favorably and that 

family is safe now in South Korea. I thank the Chinese government 

for following rules and orders and conventions in that regard. 

13

Being from Virginia, naturally, I love freedom and liberty. As 

part of the lineage of the spirit espoused by George Mason and 

Thomas Jefferson, I think those principles still endure, not just in 

this country, but for all people here on earth. I have a statement 

that I would put into the record. I want to ask you some questions 

and try to get a perspective of this. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Allen appears as a submissions for the record.] 

While Kim Han Mee and his family were released, just last 

Thursday, China refused to return back to South Korea a North 

Korean asylum seeker who was forcibly removed from the South 

Korean consulate in China despite the objections of South Korean 

officials. Three weeks ago, China demanded for the first time that 

South Korea turn over to Chinese authorities four asylum seekers 

who had made it into the South Korean consulate. 

When listening to your remarks and the question of Chairman 

Kennedy, it is clear that the United Nations High Commissioner 

for Refugees needs to have access to refugees residing in China to 

evaluate their status and their claims and facilitate the resettlement of those refugees that are in China to other countries. Now, 

what we want to do is halt these forced repatriations of North Koreans back to North Korea. I think you know, and I am sure you 

hear more today from very brave witnesses in the several panels, 

that clearly, repatriating or sending these people back to North 

Korea is a death sentence or a sentence of torture and persecution, 

even worse than what they were enduring prior to their escape to 

China. 

In your comments, Mr. Kelly, the logical presumption ought to be 

that people who have escaped from North Korea ought to be in 

Korea. Most likely, that is where their family members are, although they may not have seen them for 50 years because of the 

North Korean government’s repressive approaches where there is 

not any communication whatsoever. 

We understand that the People’s Republic of China has a historic 

affinity for North Korea versus South Korea. This has been borne 

out by wars and similarities in some regards, in their forms of government. I am not going to say the People’s Republic of China’s 

government is exactly like North Korea’s. Thank goodness, they are 

better than that. But nevertheless, they have been allies. 

Is it possible that part of the problem with the People’s Republic 

of China not living up to the conventions and agreements as far as 

inviolability of consulates and the refugee protocols that many 

countries, including China, have agreed to, is because of their affinity for North Korea and the fact that most of these people who 

have left and are seeking asylum would go to South Korea? Is that 

something that is giving them pause? Is that a reason for it, as opposed to if they were wanting to go to Vietnam, Singapore or Malaysia or some other country? Do you all feel that that is one of the 

reasons why they are hesitant to live up to their obligations? 

Mr. KELLY. Senator Allen, I will be glad to offer an opinion, and 

the answer is yes. I think that is one of the reasons. There is a 

longstanding, of course, relationship of the People’s Republic of 

China and North Korea, or the DPRK, as it is called, which, of 

14

course, reached its high point late in 1950 when a million Chinese 

soldiers came across the border to fight with Americans. 

In recent years, since the opening of diplomatic relations with 

South Korea, there has actually been a very warm, many would 

say warmer, relationship between Beijing and Seoul than there has 

been with Pyongyang. That appears to be being dented at the moment with this contretemps that Mr. Dewey mentioned of the people who are in the South Korean consulate. 

There probably are other reasons, too. There are three or four 

million Chinese who have been in China who are of Korean descent, considered minorities within the Chinese system, and it is 

fairly obvious that most, if not all, of the 21 million ordinary people, 21 to 23 million ordinary people in North Korea would rapidly 

go somewhere else if they could do so. The Chinese probably are 

less concerned over 100,000 or 200,000 than they are of having that 

whole, or much larger refugee flow and I think that is a part of it. 

But these are just characterizations. We do not really know. The 

important thing is as we have represented, that China has to honor 

their obligations under the refugee conventions in this case and 

they need to involve the U.N. High Commissioner and they need 

to be registering these people and preparing them for resettlement 

either in North Korea or elsewhere. 

Senator ALLEN. We need to recognize the right of any country to 

protect its borders and China has the right to do that. To the extent that they are upset that many would want to resettle in the 

Republic of Korea or South Korea, I think that the United States 

can take a lead role. Obviously, there are many people of Korean 

descent who are now Korean-Americans—U.S. citizens in all walks 

of life in this country. The United States ought to step up to the 

plate and have them be repatriated or sent under the asylum laws 

to this country and then possibly back to South Korea. I do not 

know if that would be any way of making it easier as far as the 

relationship that North Korea and the People’s Republic of China 

have. 

I think that what Senator Brownback and myself and Senator 

Kennedy are all talking about is what we can do to help ease that 

burden on people. Really, we cannot wait forever, because if they 

are getting or sent back to Korea, we are sentencing them to persecution at best and death at worst. I understand protocols and procedures and timetables and agendas and that is all very important. 

This needs to be one of the very most pressing issues that we 

need to go forward with and I think you will find strong support, 

Mr. Secretary, on a bipartisan basis here in the Senate to make 

sure that folks can lead the lives they ought to be leading with 

human rights. The United States has to set up a separate number 

of asylum seekers from this situation from North Korea, North Koreans that actually have been able to escape from that repressive 

regime. I think there are going to be many that are in favor of 

doing so and we would like to be able to work with you on that. 

I would also hope that the Ambassador from China who responded favorably at least to that one request for a family for me, 

would also be able to report back to that country. As soon as the 

floodgates open, though, if they ever do open out of North Korea, 

North Koreans are naturally going to leave, out of hunger if not the 

15

political persecution. Regimes like that cannot stand the enlightenment of freedom and opportunity. It is the North Koreans’ repressive government that has so many people wanting to leave. 

I understand People’s Republic of China leaders not wanting to 

assimilate millions. It is one thing to have hundreds of thousands, 

but we need to work out ways, whether they are refugee camps 

such as Senator Brownback set up to assist in China, or other ways 

to allow them to get to South Korea, which I know many people 

from the Republic of Korea would very much want to have families 

reunited. It is one of their quests and probably one of the greatest 

driving missions of that country, regardless of the different political 

persuasions of folks in the Republic of China. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Blood runs thicker than governments. 

Senator ALLEN. Absolutely, so thank you. 

Senator BROWNBACK. [Presiding.] Mr. Dewey, I thank you and I 

thank the panel. I just would commit to your reading, if you could, 

today’s Financial Times out of London. There is a story in there 

about living skeletons fleeing North Korea. The first paragraph is, 

‘‘Oh Yong Sil, a 55-year-old housekeeper and mother of two, for 

her, the realization that she was not living in a paradise dawned 

as the piled of emaciated corpses grew around her. She watched 

her husband starve to death, her sons grow up into living skeletons, and her township governor fade into death still uttering paeans to North Korean’s glorious leader Kim Jong Il, son of Kim Il 

Sung, whose master plan all this is.’’ That is today’s Financial 

Times, the first paragraph of that story. I think you are going to 

see a lot more like this. 

We do look forward to working with you on this issue soon. I 

hope we can meet next week. Thank you very much. 

Mr. DEWEY. Thank you very much. 

Senator BROWNBACK. I am honored to introduce our second panel 

of witnesses, each of whom has a harrowing story to relay about 

his or her own personal experiences in North Korea or those of 

family members. I am hopeful that their accounts will help shed 

light on the problems facing North Koreans and I thank them for 

sharing their experiences with us. 

Soon Ok Lee grew up in North Korea as a proud member of the 

Communist Party. She fell victim to a legal system without due 

process. She spent six years in prison on false charges, forced to 

endure brutal treatment. She managed to escape from North Korea 

in 1995 and has written a book, Eyes of the Tail-less Animals, on 

her ordeal. She now lives in South Korea with her family, and I 

noted earlier that my wife and I read this book two weekends ago 

and just found it harrowing, incredibly harrowing. 

If these witnesses would care to come forward to the table as I 

read this off, we will move forward. Would the panel please come 

on up to the table? 

Next will be Helie Lee. She is an acclaimed writer who was born 

in South Korea and grew up in Los Angeles, where she currently 

lives with her family. Her most recent book, In the Absence of the 

Sun, details her successful life-risking efforts to sneak her uncle 

and his family out of North Korea. I am hopeful that her testimony 

will provide insight into the difficult situation facing approximately 

16

500,000, half-a-million, Korean Americans who have relatives in 

North Korea who they are unable to see. 

Dr. Norbert Vollertsen has worked on humanitarian issues in 

North Korea since 1999, when he went there to provide needed humanitarian medical assistance. Over the course of his 18 months 

there, he found a system worth with corruption in which ordinary 

people were forced to forego critical medical supplies while the government stockpiled those supplies for use by a small minority. He 

was later expelled from the country for his efforts to expose these 

abuses and he continues to speak out against the humanitarian situation that is occurring in North Korea. 

I thank all of our panelists here today for their courage and their 

bravery and their willingness to speak out about a corrupt and incredibly difficult situation for the people in North Korea. 

Ms. Lee, we will start with your testimony, and I believe we will 

have a simultaneous translation taking place. We are delighted to 

have you here, and having read your book, I am surprised you are 

alive and I am amazed at how good you look. Ms. Lee? 

STATEMENT OF SUN-OK LEE, NORTH KOREAN PRISON CAMP 

SURVIVOR, SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA 

Ms. S. LEE [through interpreter]. I would like to first thank you 

for this opportunity for me to tell about the situation in North 

Korea. Whenever I have a chance to talk about these kinds of 

things, I first thank God. 

With the assistance of a lot of people that I have received, I am 

totally thankful to have this kind of opportunity to tell about people in North Korea who go dying, which I have witnessed. Along 

with my son, I was able to seek freedom and succeed in that search 

and I settled in the Republic of Korea. 

I would like to first describe what the real human rights situation is in North Korea comprehensively. Of course, there is no minimum level of human rights by any standards in the world and 

there is no such thing in North Korea. Of course, 23 million people 

who live in North Korea are led to believe they are living on a paradise on earth. Myself, having lived 50 years in North Korea, believed North Korea was the country where human rights were 

maximally and best guaranteed on earth. 

In North Korea, life of the people is such that anybody can either 

live or die for the sake of a person by the name of Kim Jong Il. 

Of course, North Korea is a dictatorial country where father and 

son, that is Kim Il Sung and his son Kim Jong Il, have been ruling 

for the past half-a-century. North Korea is a country where people 

cannot truly speak without thinking about Kim Jong Il or Kim Il 

Sung. They cannot even move freely. North Korea is a country 

where people have no concept or idea what human rights is. 

I served seven years in prison for the first charges which I never 

committed. And the judiciary system of North Korea has no rights 

or authorities of its own, apart from the leadership of Kim Jong Il 

or the party. So anyone can become a political prisoner or a political criminal once the person does not follow the instructions or the 

orders of Kim Jong Il or the party. 

I just told you that I served seven years in prison in North 

Korea. My charges were that I failed in my job, which was to see 

17

to it that supplies are properly distributed to cadre members of the 

party. In North Korea, there are torture experts who do nothing 

but torturing people. Due to the severity of the torture, many just 

confess whatever charges they are accused of. They say they did it 

because they could not just sustain or survive the torture they were 

suffering. 

I, myself, suffered 14 months of torture almost every day. During 

the course of the torture that I had to go through, the torturers 

trampled on my head and I still have the scars and injuries on my 

head and I do not have the normal function of my head and face 

because of that reason. 

There are many different types of torture, including water torture. The type of torture that I went through was water torture, 

and aftermath of that, I still to this day cannot eat food well. 

Then they also have what they refer to as the torture by freezing, 

or freezing fish. They literally make people freeze like the frozen 

fish and they do this because they believe then people will listen 

to them. It gets very cold in the winter in North Korea. It goes 

down to 30 degrees below Celsius. They strip people, have people 

sit on the frozen ground up to an hour, exposing themselves to cold. 

As a result of that type of torture that I received, I got frostbite 

and I lost all toenails from ten toes. It was not just to me, but I 

know 40 other people who were sentenced to this, or going through 

that type of torture. Eventually, they all died as an aftermath of 

the freezing torture. 

Without understanding what charges and why I was sent to jail, 

nevertheless, I was sentenced to 14 years to serve in prison. When 

North Korea sends people to jail or prison, whether political crimes 

or general crimes or whatever, they always make up the charges 

themselves regardless of what the people have actually done or did 

not do. 

In the prison, North Korea maintains huge manufacturing plants 

where they produce products that are unknown to people outside. 

It is sort of a confidential secret, the products. 

The prison where I was put into was in Kachan, Pyongyang 

Province, and there were about 6,000 men and women prisoners. 

Among them were about 2,000 housewives. Among them, many of 

them were pregnant, which they conceived before they came to the 

prison, because they applied the charges not because of your own 

faults or anything you have done yourself, but if any of the relatives or your parents or your fathers or sons committed a crime, 

then you are responsible for that crime, as well, and that is the 

ground for punishment by North Korea. 

And once the mother was in prison for whatever charges they accused her of, and if she has conceived, she is pregnant, the baby 

has no right to arrive. They all killed unborn babies by inserting 

the salts and salt liquids into the womb. I have witnessed hundreds of North Korean women right after they give birth to babies 

kill their own babies. Even though they kill babies with chemicals, 

but nevertheless there are some times when babies are still born 

alive. When that happens, prison guards will come and will trample with their boots onto the babies still moving. 

You can imagine what kind of pain it would be for a mother to 

see her baby being killed. If she cries, then that cry would be interVerDate Mar 21 2002 11:23 May 08, 2003 Jkt 086829 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\HEARINGS\86829.TXT SJUD4 PsN: CMORC
18

preted as protest against the leadership of Kim Jong Il. Then she 

will be thrown outside and to be shot. The body of the woman who 

has been shot then is taken to the orchard and they bury the body 

underneath the fruit trees. I did not know until I was in prison 

that some foods are grown from the trees under which they bury 

bodies. 

I think women are the most tragic victims of the North Korean 

system of Kim Jong Il. These women are innocent. They are not 

guilty. The only sins or crime they have committed is because of 

a shortage of food, non-existence of food, they will have to seek for 

food, and that is their crime. 

To move from one area to another in North Korea, you require 

and you need a travel pass. Without it, you cannot simply move. 

Any woman who travels without this travel authorization, paper 

document, a travel document, is subject to the punishment by serving prison terms. 

In the prison, I saw a lot of Christians and their crime was believing in God. In North Korea, Kim Jong Il, along with his father 

Kim Il Sung, is god. The most heinous crime in North Korea would 

be not to trust or believe in the leadership of the party and the 

leader, Kim Jong Il. The Christians are punished not on their generation but the next two posterity, the following generations. The 

sons and their grandchildren will also be subject to punishment because their grandparents believe in Christianity. 

In prison, no one is allowed to look up to the skies but they have 

to keep their heads down all the time, only looking at the ground. 

Because of this posture they have to maintain year after year, by 

that, I mean prisoners will have to, even when they walk, they 

have to keep their heads down looking at the ground, the result 

was their neck bends and becomes stiff and fixed and then their 

spines go out of normal and it causes some medical problems, as 

well. 

Prisoners are forced to work 16 to 18 hours a day. Their diet, of 

course, is controlled by the prison authorities and each prisoner 

gets 100 grams of cornbread a day, along with this much of saltwater. When they sleep, they have to go into the same room in a 

group of 80 to 90 people. They all sleep in the same room. The 

space allowed for each prisoner to use when they go to bed would 

be about 16 feet long—correction, 19 feet long and 16 feet wide. 

Senator BROWNBACK. For how many people, that size of space? 

Ms. S. LEE [through interpreter]. In that space, they put 80 to 

90 people, so when they sleep, the feet of another person will come 

onto the head of another person and so forth. They do not lie the 

same way, but the reverse way, every other person, so that they 

can make better utility or use of the space. So a prisoner, whenever 

he or she sleeps, will have someone else’s feet on his or her face. 

Senator BROWNBACK. You have 80 to 90 people in a room, then, 

16 by 19 feet, is that correct? 

Ms. S. LEE [through interpreter]. Yes. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Ms. Lee, if we could wrap up, because we 

have some other witnesses, and then we will have some questions, 

if we can, so if we could get the testimony wrapped up. 

Ms. S. LEE [through interpreter]. The prison I served, I knew 

they were, North Koreans were also testing biological systems, bioVerDate Mar 21 2002 11:23 May 08, 2003 Jkt 086829 PO 00000 Frm 00022 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\HEARINGS\86829.TXT SJUD4 PsN: CMORC
19

logical weapons systems. I am inclined to think it is the sort of responsibility of the international community to see and find out 

what is going on in North Korea, especially on top of biological experiments that they are conducting in prisons. 

Many refugees are, of course, escaping to China, and I believe 

these people escaped from North Korea because they do not like 

the political system they have and the dictatorship they have lived 

under. I believe the regime of Kim Jung Il ought to fall down as 

soon as possible. The Chinese government is stopping and blocking 

the refugees from getting into their country because of their diplomatic arrangements with North Korea. 

I personally hope that the United States, along with the international community, to see to it that refugees from North Korea 

are regarded, accepted as political asylum seekers. In my view, for 

North Korea to collapse, we need more refugees to leave North 

Korea. This way, we can prevent war. 

In conclusion, I would like to ask each member of this committee 

to pay attention to refugees from North Korea and grant them political refugee status. I would like to thank you very much for the 

opportunity for me to appear before your committee. Thank you 

very much. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you very much, Ms. Soon Ok Lee. 

It was a very powerful, very courageous testimony, what you just 

put forward, and I look forward to further dialogue with you, as 

well. And thank you for being willing to come here and to state this 

to the rest of the world. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. S. Lee appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Ms. Helie Lee, thank you for joining us. 

STATEMENT OF HELIE LEE, WEST HOLLYWOOD, CALIFORNIA 

Ms. H. LEE. Thank you. First of all, I would like to say I am honored to be here. I am especially grateful to you Senators for bringing us all here today. 

I would like to say that I am not a scholar, a politician, an expert, a journalist. I am a writer. I am a Korean American, but most 

of all, I am an American, and the reason I am here today is to testify and be witness to the countless and thousands, hundreds of 

thousands of North Korean refugees hiding out in China, Russia, 

Mongolia, in absolute fear of being repatriated back to North 

Korea. 

But I would like to take it to a more personal level. It is the story 

of my grandmother, my grandmother who passed away three weeks 

ago. In her memory, I am here to honor her memory. 

My grandmother had lost her son during the Korean War—he 

was her firstborn and her firstborn son—in 1953. He was the only 

one who did not make it out of North Korea in 1950. For years, 

she had tried to search for him. After the armistice agreement was 

signed between the two Koreas in 1953, she wrote to politicians 

and ambassadors, missionaries, looking for this son, and when 

nothing happened, she had finally lost hope. 

But something amazing happened, and this is where I believe 

faith comes into play. Forty-one years later, in 1991, we discovered 

that her son is alive in North Korea. All of a sudden, this ghost 

20

is resurrected and this missing son is now alive. Finally, we know. 

But it is so bittersweet, because we know that he is alive, but however, the bitterness is not being able to go to him, because as you 

know, in 1991 when we found my uncle, North Korea was then and 

still is the most closed-off, isolated, and repressive country in the 

world. 

My grandmother, for six years after discovering that he was 

alive, tried to go through all the official channels, the American 

Ambassadors, writing to North Korea, writing to Kim Il Sung, the 

dictator, to no success. We could not get a visa. We could not reunite mother and son after 47 years of separation. 

But then the most amazing thing happened in 1997. We get a 

phone call from China, from this Chinese Korean man. He calls us 

collect, I would like to say. He calls us collect from China and he 

says, I know this gentleman. He lives in North Korea. He says he 

has a mother in America. This is somewhat treasonous, but if you 

would like, I would arrange a meeting between mother and son in 

China. 

After talking to him quite extensively and realizing that this 

could possibly be true, my father and I immediately escorted my 

85-year-old grandmother from LAX to Yanji, China, which is in 

Northeastern China. It is the closest airport to the border between 

China and North Korea. When we get there, the flight is so long 

and so grueling on my grandmother, we had to leave her behind 

in that city. 

My father and I decided to go ahead to the border. Our plan was 

to go to the border, make contact with my uncle through this person’s assistance, smuggle him across the river, change and feed 

him, clothe him, take him in the car, drive him back 11 hours 

through mountainous icy trails to my grandmother, have a few 

hours of precious reunion after 47 years, and then take him back 

to North Korea before the North Korean police discover he is missing, because if that happens, as Ms. Lee has said, not only would 

my uncle be punished, but his entire family, including babies and 

elderly. So it is very imperative that we got him back. 

My father and I drove to the river and when I saw the border 

of North Korea and China—you know, you are hearing about it, 

but I would like to describe it to you. I had imagined the border 

between China and North Korea. It is a watery border. It is the 

Yalu River. I had imagined it to be miles wide and treacherous. 

Having seen the 38th Parallel that divides North Korea and South 

Korea in half, I imagined barbed wires, guard posts, you know, 

loudspeakers shouting out propaganda. 

What I saw was a river. It was waist-deep. It was barely 50 

yards wide. But instead of barbed wires, there was a tall rock fence 

on the other side. The rock fence was about seven, eight feet tall. 

I believe it was put there not to keep the people from escaping, but 

to keep us, the outside world, from seeing behind the wall, which 

was all decay and disrepair of homes. But what was most scary 

was posted on the riverbank every ten to 15 yards were armed soldiers. 

But even the soldiers are hungry in North Korea, so if you feed 

them a piece of rice cake, give them a cigarette or promise them 

liquor, they will allow you to talk to the North Koreans. Otherwise, 

21

they will beat the North Koreans for speaking to the people on the 

China side. 

So that day at the river in April of 1997, I saw my uncle for the 

first time, and my father was with me that day and I heard my 

father cry for the first time, not because this was my uncle, because I have never seen such abuse of power. My uncle was the 

same age as my father, 62. He looked older than my grandmother. 

He was gaunt, and his eyes and cheeks were hollowed in. He was 

wearing the old Mao, you know, the green suit with the high Mandarin collar and the Lenin cap with this red star, and the clothes 

looked like they were 20 years too old and they were much too thin 

for the freezing weather. All I wanted to do was give my uncle my 

jacket, but the soldiers, trained to shoot, froze my feet that day. 

Our plan was to wait until sunset to get my uncle to cross the 

river under the protection of night. My uncle never made it across 

the river that day because of the famine. He was so gaunt and 

emaciated. The shock of seeing us, his American relatives who have 

come so far to bring him a care package of long underwear and beef 

jerky and Tylenol. Tylenol and Jesus Christ is my grandmother’s 

balm for everything. 

[Laughter.] 

Ms. H. LEE. Having this care package, we had come this far. Unfortunately, my uncle could not cross the river, he was too frail, 

and we had come so close to reuniting mother and son after 47 

years of forced political separation, but we had failed. And when 

my father and I had to return to the States, we were so guilt-ridden by what we had witnessed over there. We were so guilt-ridden 

for the privileged life that we as Americans live here. It was difficult to continue on in our lives. Even though I drove a Toyota, I 

felt wrong to drive this Toyota. I felt wrong to go to my parties and 

write for a living. 

We had to go back to North Korea, so we did. We planned this 

risky rescue mission, which I call the 007 Mission, being the Hollywood freak myself, watching a lot of movies, so I called it the 007 

Mission. My father and I went back. With the assistance of a lot 

of very brave South Korean and Chinese Korean individuals who 

acted as our guides, our translators, our drivers, people with safe 

houses, we were able to plan this mission. What we originally 

thought was going to take two to four weeks took seven long 

months of flying to China many, many times, even with my 85-

year-old grandmother. 

Believe it or not, we planned everything—you have to plan everything to the minute detail, how many people are going to cross the 

river, at what time, two, three, four, where you are going to go. We 

planned everything out. But, you know, you cannot predict how full 

the moon is going to be. You cannot predict how high the water is 

going to be. You cannot predict how many soldiers are going to be 

on the river. 

But, believe it or not, getting them across the river into China, 

defecting to China, was much easier—was the easy part of the journey. Four-hundred measly American dollars bought us nine lives, 

$400. For $400, you cannot even buy a purse in America sometimes. But for $400, we get them to China. 

22

This is where the difficulty of the journey starts. This is where 

the danger starts, because in China, North Korean refugees are not 

popular. They are not welcome. They are not embraced by the embassies. Embassies in 1997 and prior to—embassies are somewhat 

opening their doors these days, but back then were turning refugees away, turning their backs on them, sometimes repatriating 

them, knowing they will go back and face execution for this grievous, treasonous act. So we knew getting them to an embassy in 

China was absolutely out of the question because there was a 50–

50 chance. 

So we hid them for weeks in China. Finally, we planned a boat, 

fell through. Finally, we decided to get them out of China via Mongolia, via this South Korean embassy in Hanoi, Vietnam. It was a 

very dangerous and treacherous journey. We had to separate the 

family because of things that we could not predict, like propaganda 

of my relatives. Half of them are so brainwashed that it was very 

difficult to get them to defect, and so half of them came out in the 

early, the other half came out towards the end. 

When we got them to the embassies, that was not a guarantee 

that they were going to be able to go to South Korea. I, in fact, 

came to Washington, our great capital, spoke to an ambassador, 

and he told me to write to my Congressman and Senator. My relatives, unfortunately, did not have that kind of time for me to be 

sitting on my computer composing a letter. 

But what we did do was we had leverage to buy their lives, 

which means my uncle’s family were not politicians and diplomats 

who had top secret, military information to barter for their lives. 

They were the lowest of the low society. My uncle’s family, prior 

to the war, were rich landowners, but also had converted to Christianity. Therefore, he was punished for his family’s, his parents’ 

mishaps prior to the war, so my uncle was the lowest of the low 

class and so we knew that the embassies of the world were not 

going to take them easily. 

So being a savvy American woman and also having worked in 

the entertainment business in Hollywood, I knew the power of the 

media. We captured everything on videotape, and I believe it is this 

videotape and also the publication of my first book the year before 

in the United States that convinced the South Korean CIA to take 

my family as political refugees, and they are so lucky. They are the 

lucky few that made it to South Korea. 

The BBC, when we looked on the Internet yesterday, said about 

1,600 North Korean refugees are living in South Korea. How 

shamelessly low is that? The KoreAm Journal, which is a Korean–

English magazine here, said 1,800. Still, that is a better number, 

but it is still very little. America, our greatest country in the world, 

I believe, having traveled many places as a woman, as an Asian 

woman, this is the best place in the world to be. America, being 

so generous, has only received two refugees since 1950 as quoted 

in Newsweek 1997. Those two refugees since the Korean War were 

accepted into the United States. They were diplomats, North Korean diplomats to the Middle East. Obviously, they had important 

secrets to barter for their lives. 

So I am here today in the memory of my grandmother, who got 

to see her son after 47 years. She got to see him in South Korea. 

23

We made it happen for her. But you would think I would be so 

happy with that and be satisfied with that, but every day, I am 

filled with guilt, hearing about the refugees storming the embassies, because you know they do that in a last-ditch effort for freedom. 

I am hoping that sharing my family’s story with you today, that 

you realize these are not faceless, nameless people. They are people 

in need. They are my relatives. They are mother and sons and they 

have relatives who are Korean American. Again, like Senator 

Brownback said, one in four Korean Americans have a connection 

or have relatives in North Korea. So thank you for listening. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you very much for that very powerful testimony. Thank you for your heart in doing that. That is an 

incredible experience, an incredible story. 

Ms. H. LEE. Thank you for letting me go over. I was worried 

about the buzzer. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. H. Lee appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Senator BROWNBACK. Dr. Vollertsen, thank you for being here. 

STATEMENT OF NORBERT VOLLERTSEN, M.D., SEOUL, SOUTH 

KOREA 

Dr. VOLLERTSEN. Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, thank 

you for the invitation. I am a German emergency doctor who lived 

in North Korea for one-and-a-half years and I took care for ten different hospitals, several orphanages, and several hundred kindergartens. 

I traveled in North Korea about 70,000 kilometers, mainly because I am a medical doctor. I am also a drug dealer in this way. 

I became very close to the North Korean elite and they are very 

keen for German medicine, especially Viagra and all that kind of 

stuff, so I became very close with them. 

It is convenient to be a doctor sometimes. I got special experience 

there because one of my patients, he suffered from a serious skin 

burn and the North Koreans do not have any medicine, no bandage 

material. North Koreans hospitals are looking like—there is no 

electricity, no running water, no medicine at all, and no food. The 

people are starving and dying in those hospitals. I saw them literally dying every day. 

So what the North Koreans are doing now, they are donating 

their own blood, their own skin, their own bones when there is an 

emergency case. We were so excited about this, so moved by this 

experience, so my colleague and I, we also donated our own skin 

and for this brave act we got the so-called Friendship Medal of the 

North Korean people, the first Westerners ever who got this high 

honor of the North Korean people. 

There was a huge propaganda show in the North Korean media 

afterwards and we were awarded this so-called Friendship Medal, 

passport, and a private driving license and I was allowed to go 

around on my own without any translator, coordinator, minder or 

surveillance, whatever, and I have used this possibility. I traveled 

70,000 kilometers. I took around 2,500 pictures, videotape out of 

the condition of these normal children’s hospitals and I realized 

what is going on in North Korea. 

24

This is the lifestyle of the elite in North Korea. They are enjoying 

diplomatic shops, nightclubs, a casino in Pyongyang, in the showcase city Pyongyang, nice skyscrapers. The military elite is not suffering. They are not starving. They are getting the food. I was an 

eyewitness when the food supply of our German emergency organization was going to those in the elite, to the military. The medicine 

was going to the diplomatic shops, but not to the starving people 

in the countryside. 

And this is the reality of the starving people, especially the children in the countryside, and those children are not only looking 

like children in German concentration camps, they were behaving 

like those children. There is no more emotional reaction and they 

cannot laugh anymore, they cannot cry anymore. They are fed up. 

They are depressed. 

That was my main medical diagnosis in North Korea. They suffer 

from depression. They are full of fear. They are afraid to speak out 

because of this concentration camp. North Korea at whole is a concentration camp. 

I did not ever visit one of these concentration camps. I was not 

allowed to go there. No foreigners are allowed to go there. But I 

got a lot of rumors, a lot of knowledge, and you know about German history where we are accused that we stood silent when there 

were some rumors about German concentration camps, some stories, no evidence. So I do not have any photo out of a North Korean 

concentration camp. Sorry, I do not have any video out of the North 

Korean concentration camps. 

But I heard about those people and I realized when I talked to 

my patients how afraid they are. They are so full of fear. That is 

my main diagnosis, fear and depression. Most of the people are alcoholics. They are addicted to alcohol. That is the only thing what 

you can get in North Korea, no food, no medicine, but alcohol in 

order to calm them down, like Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World. 

And then I found this. The criminal law of North Korea, and 

there in Article 47 it was written, a citizen of the republic who defects to a foreign country and who commits an extremely grave offense, he or she shall be given the death penalty and the penalty 

of the confiscation of all his property, and a person who commits 

acts of terrorism or any anti-state criminal act shall be committed 

a reform institution and there he shall be reformed through labor. 

Labor camps, reform institution—it is written here. It is published 

in Pyongyang in 1992 and it is still alive. It is still the law. 

I wondered, when this is the situation in a normal children’s hospital, how might it look like in those reform institutions? So I criticized the government. I also simply believe in the power of information and the power of media and journalism, so I guided around 

many, many American journalists. Together with my driving license, I was able to carry them around in the capital city and the 

countryside and I was finally expelled. Even my Friendship Medal 

could not help me anymore. 

I was expelled in December 2000 after 18 months in North Korea 

and I fulfilled the promise. Instead of going home, doing business 

like usual in a German country hospital, I went straight to Seoul 

and I spoke to all the international journalists. I want to create 

25

awareness about this country, about the destiny of these North Korean refugees. 

And then I went to get the real image, because when I stayed 

in North Korea, despite my access, despite all my documents and 

whatever, I am still an idiot. I do not know anything about North 

Korea. They are so sophisticated to hide all of their dirty secrets. 

They are an upgraded version of Milosevich’s Yugoslavia, Hitler’s 

Nazi Germany, Stalin’s Russia. They are an upgraded version of all 

these dictatorships. They are world champions, so sophisticated to 

hide those secrets. There is no travel access, no freedom of travel 

for diplomats, for journalists, for NGOs. 

So I went to the Chinese North Korean border and there I met 

all those refugees and all those stories came true. All those rumors 

about mass execution, about rape, about biological experiments. 

Their Christian believers are used like human guinea pigs in North 

Korea. 

I talked to nearly 200 North Korean refugees and then I met 

those South Korean NGOs, mainly Christian missionaries who are 

doing this brave and sometimes very dangerous job there at the 

Chinese–North Korean border in order to get those refugees out in 

a greater number. 

And then we have this idea. I am a German citizen and I do not 

only know about the guilt of our history about German concentration camps, but I know also about 1989, about reunification in Germany, how it all started, with several dozen refugees in the West 

German embassy in Prague, and then we had the idea, oh, let us 

repeat history. Why not go to the West German embassy in Beijing 

with some North Korean refugees and enter this embassy and start 

what will finally lead to the collapse of North Korea and reunification. Maybe a little bit naive, maybe a little bit simplistic. I am 

also not a politician, not a diplomat, I am simply a German emergency doctor who has to take care in an emergency case, because 

these children are dying and starving. 

So instead of choosing the German embassy, there was too much 

security, we chose the Spanish embassy. Twenty-five people managed to go into this embassy, and because of the media protection, 

because of the media coverage, they went out, because China is 

very much afraid about their reputation, host of the Olympics, 

member of the WTO, so they are very much afraid about media 

coverage and we finally succeeded to get these people out. 

Today, in the morning, the actual amount of people in the South 

Korean embassy is 21. One woman more yesterday entered the 

South Korean consulate in Beijing, so this will go on for the next 

weeks. We are hoping for some mass escape, like in former East 

German and then Prague, and we hope to repeat history, what will 

finally lead to the collapse of North Korea and I think this is the 

only solution, also for China and for the people that—and there are 

many, many people afraid about this collapse, but I think we have 

to look into these eyes. 

We have to think about those children, look into these eyes and 

then try not to care. I think it is worth to do anything, what we 

can do. As a German, I have to believe in this history of reunification and of refugees. I think this is the only thing that can lead 

to a collapse of North Korea. 

26

And finally, there are so many people afraid about weapons of 

mass destruction that are developed in North Korea and maybe 

this is the easiest way without any war, without any bloodshed, 

without any civil war, to get rid of this dictatorship. Thank you 

very much. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Vollertsen appears as a submissions for the record.] 

Senator BROWNBACK. That is, from all three of you, very powerful testimony that you have put forward. I am reminded of a little 

brochure that I read about the German war situation and a number of the Jews being moved to concentration camps and it happening on Sunday morning. They would go by this one church in 

particular, and they could hear the cries in the church coming from 

the rail cars. Regrettably, people at that time, instead of looking 

out and trying to do something, they just said, well, let us sing a 

little louder so that they would not hear the cries that were coming. 

When you get into a situation like this where you have seen so 

much suffering taking place, what I appreciate that you do is put 

a light on it so that people can see what is taking place and we 

do not just sing a little louder so we do not hear what is taking 

place and let the people suffer. 

That is incredible testimony from each of you. We will ask ten 

minutes of questions each, because we do have another panel after 

this. 

Dr. Vollertsen and Ms. Lee, what should the United States Government be doing to try to help as many people as we can to survive the situation in North Korea and for it to change? 

Ms. H. LEE. My opinion is, Kim Jong, the North Korean President, in his sunshine policy, I think we should continue to support 

him and support any means to feed North Koreans. However, the 

situation is desperate. I think the numbers are staggering, anywhere from 100,000 to 500,000 North Korean refugees hiding out 

in China and other neighboring countries. 

I believe what is necessary at this point is a safe house where 

these people can go, and to me, all my research and all the people 

that I have spoken to, it seems like Mongolia is the most friendly 

country, not Inner Mongolia, but Mongolia. What do you think, Dr. 

Vollertsen? 

Dr. VOLLERTSEN. Absolutely. That is our next step. We want to 

get an official refugee camp in Mongolia near the Chinese border 

and when there is some financial support, the Mongolian government is willing to do this, when there is some financial support 

maybe from the U.S. Government and some negotiations, some official negotiation. 

And I still believe, or I think about the East German solution 

when Hungary opens their border. That was really the final step 

in this development, and I think the South Koreans are having a 

real hardship in their negotiations with China now. Those 21 refugees are still in the embassy and instead of the American consulate 

or American embassy, the Spanish embassy where China guaranteed a third country and then allowed them to go to Seoul, here in 

27

the South Korean embassy, they are still in because South Korea 

is not in the position to maybe talk a little bit more tough. 

Therefore, I urge you for support of the U.S. Government. That 

means maybe support in a financial way or try to talk to China’s 

authorities, that they are so afraid to pay for all those North Korean refugees. For sure, you are right, they are afraid about this 

flood. But when they will know that there is some support in any 

way, financial support or Mongolia, that they can maybe save their 

face and get rid of this problem, then I think a face-saving way, 

with China, there are some possibilities. 

I can see that there are some changes in the Chinese policy. 

When we met those Chinese policemen, they are quite open, and 

I know so many Chinese businessmen who are trying so hard to 

get a change in the Chinese policy in China, in Beijing. They want 

to do business with Pyongyang. They want to do business with 

South Korea. So I think with a little bit more pressure on China, 

face-saving pressure, then they are willing to do something and be 

helpful. 

Ms. H. LEE. But from there, then where? South Korea has thus 

far taken most of the refugees. However, as the panel before us 

said, they have a generous program to reeducate and reassimilate 

these North Korean refugees in South Korean society to understand capitalism and the 21st century. 

However, that program, which my uncle’s family and a total of 

nine people had undergone, that program years ago, when refugees 

were very few and far in between, used to be about a year program. 

They would take these refugees to a walking tour through South 

Korea, literally taking them to department stores that are larger 

than their entire towns, showing them what an elevator is, what 

an ATM machine, all the modern things that we have today. 

However, this program, when my uncle got to South Korea in 

1997, was reduced because of the economic crisis that had occurred 

that year and the year before. It was reduced from one year to 

barely two, three months. The government also provides these refugees housing, job training, sometimes allowance to live off. But I 

really believe it is a tremendous burden on South Korea and that 

is why the numbers are very, very shamefully low. 

As Korean Americans, I think it would be great for us to take 

responsibility for a lot of those family members, and I say family 

members. We are all connected. Just look at our last names, Lees, 

Parks, Kims. We are all connected. 

Senator BROWNBACK. And I noted you saying about two refugees 

being accepted in the United States from North Korea since—

Ms. H. LEE. Being an American, I am very ashamed of that. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Yes. I am, too. 

Ms. Lee, you write in your book a story of a particular incident 

that occurred where you saw a number of people just killed for 

their faith. I think one situation you write in here of people, if they 

did not renounce their faith, they were killed on the spot. Did you 

see that take place frequently and could you describe what you 

saw? 

Ms. S. LEE [through interpreter]. I personally believed there is 

only living god who was the leader of the country and I thought 

we just have to believe in him. Otherwise, we will be punished. But 

28

I realize it is not a crime to believe in Christ when I saw a number 

of prisoners who believed in God. The prison guards treated them 

as mentally sick people because they did not believe in their leader. 

These Christian prisoners were forced to work in a furnace 

where there is iron work. Some of them were serving the prison 

more than ten years because their body all changed, because they 

had to work about 18 hours every day and their backs would not 

support the kind of work they were doing and they all looked sick. 

In the prison, they are not allowed to talk to each other or even 

sing. But they were mumbling. Apparently, they were singing without singing, but they were singing in their mouths that I could tell. 

Prison guards said they were singing Christian hymns. The person 

who sang, of course, was punished cruelly by the prison guard, who 

trampled on her face. 

I have seen many scenes of Christians being punished because 

they would not change their belief. They would not say, okay, I will 

not believe in Christ anymore, and that is what the prison guards 

wanted to hear. I have seen eight women who were dragged out 

and being punished because they did not say or they did not say 

they would not believe in Christ anymore. These women were 

burned. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Burned to death? 

Ms. S. LEE [through interpreter]. Yes. When I first went to the 

prison back in 1987, I believe that there were about 250 Christian 

criminals. But by the time I left the prison, I could not recall any 

survivor of the people I first saw. 

But in the year 1993 when I left the prison, I saw more, the 

greater number of prisoners who were taken there because they believe in Christ, and I heard by word of mouth that was a result 

of Kim Jong Il’s instruction. His instruction was, imperialists are 

sending advanced aggressors in the name of missionaries to North 

Korea to invade our country. I also heard that Christianity came 

into North Korea in lieu of China by missionaries. 

In the 1990s, more Christians were arrested and sent to prison. 

During the seven years I served in the prison, there must have 

been thousands of Christians who died as a result of punishment. 

They were treated less then beasts, sub-human beings, being 

kicked by the boots of prison guards and lashed by leather lashes, 

and I saw these people still had to work. The prison guard was telling these prisoners to say, we will not believe in God but we will 

believe in our leader, Kim Jong Il. So many people died because 

they did not say, we do not believe in God. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you very much. 

Senator Allen? 

Senator ALLEN. Thanks, Senator Brownback. 

I thank each of you for not just your testimony, but also your 

bravery. 

Dr. Vollertsen, I am not happy with the results of the soccer 

game in Korea this morning—

[Laughter.] 

Senator ALLEN. —but let me, as a matter of fair play, congratulate the Germans in their one-to-nothing victory on the Korean peninsula. 

29

I remember in 1983 going into Berlin through East Germany and 

to the Wall and then actually going over and seeing East Berlin, 

obviously driving through East Germany to get there. I remember 

the long lines of people getting in line for just a few pathetic-looking vegetables and no one was impatient. They were resigned. They 

accepted it. It is a similar situation that you are describing. 

East Germany had the stores for the tourists and they had all 

sorts of nice porcelain and appliances. Of course, no one who was 

in East Berlin or East Germany could afford them. If they had 

those pathetic motor vehicles, cars, that was one thing, but then 

you saw the goose-stepping folks at the tomb there where Cubans 

as well as East German military folks were coming in, and they 

were driving in Volvos and Saabs and so forth. That same sort of 

disparity exists in these supposedly egalitarian societies where the 

rulers live like kings—in fact, they may be kings in North Korea—

and the rest living that way. 

I was wondering, how could you ever be able to overthrow this 

repressive government, where their only technological advances are 

repression? The only place where they are advanced, is how they 

use the designs of modern advancements to keep people from leaving or keep them under control. I just thought, there is no way. 

The people do not have guns. You cannot have an uprising. The 

way it fell is the Iron Curtain fell in Czechoslovakia and the Iron 

Curtain fell in Hungary. Everyone was coming out of East Germany into Germany, generally, going back to the other part, to 

Germany, and they just could not keep it. 

That would be the hope for North Korea, although from listening 

to this testimony and studying it, North Korea is much, much more 

repressive than East Germany was or Hungary or Czechoslovakia 

or Romania. At least you could go in there. I could observe the people in those lines. 

North Korea is only one of seven countries recently, once again, 

listed as a terrorist state by our State Department, along with Iraq 

and Iran and Cuba, Syria, Sudan, and Libya. These terrorist states 

are a threat to our countries. 

It is obvious from your testimony, though, that they also terrorize citizens in their own country. When you look at what needs 

to be done, let us not blame America. I am not ashamed of Americans, so let us not say we are ashamed of America or the Republic 

of Korea or South Korea. The people who should be ashamed are 

these repressive tyrants and dictators persecuting the people of 

North Korea. We are proud of our country. We want to export our 

values. We need to figure out a way to use your evidence, and your 

concern that we all share, in a positive, good way. 

Now, you mentioned Mongolia as possibly a place that is willing 

to have assistance. It is very logical that it not just be the United 

States, but also logical that the United Nations would get involved 

in assisting, as well. As we determine where the people from North 

Korea who can escape should go, it is again logical that one would 

go to South Korea, just like the East Germans went to West Germany. The assimilation, because of their economy, may be more 

difficult, but the language is the same. 

And I am wearing a tie from Kyonji. I have set up a sister state 

relationship with Kyonji-Dong. The governor’s name was Governor 

30

Rhee or Lee at the time. The point is there is such a proud heritage 

of the Korean language that no matter who was oppressing the Korean people, they kept that language alive. 

So it would be, very logical because of history, heritage, and, of 

course, language, that South Korea ought to be the place for first 

settlement. Whenever the tyranny falls in North Korea, as the 

South Koreans are coming up to the border of the 38th Parallel, 

they have these big roads all built for the day when they are reunified. They are going to be needed to get that country built, or rebuilt, in the proper way. We ought to work primarily for repatriation in South Korea. 

However, I have been talking to Senator Brownback about asylum quotas or numbers. There is certainly enough in there to allocate more than what we have to come to this country where there 

are relatives, as well. But I think, ultimately, the primary place of 

relocation should be a country where you, first of all, assimilate 

most easily if you can communicate with one another in the same 

language. 

So I would like to hear your views. Do you think the United Nations can be of assistance in Mongolia and preferences as to how 

we can make it easier for North Koreans who have escaped the 

persecution and have legitimately sought asylum to locate in South 

Korea? I ask Ms. Lee and Dr. Vollertsen. 

Ms. H. LEE. I agree with you. My relatives going to South Korea 

was the best thing for them. Koreans are very proud people and 

the language between North Korea and South Korea are still one 

after 50 years. However, it is slightly different, the Lees and the 

‘‘e’’ are a little different. 

But those who cannot get there and who do have Korean American relatives living in America, I do believe this is an option, and 

it is possible, because in the 1960s, after Mao had instigated the 

great leap forward in 1952 and there was a famine sweeping across 

China, 250,000 Chinese crossed the border into Hong Kong when 

the Chinese had opened up the border for three months. That is 

quite a bit, I agree. And Hong Kong appealed for international 

help. Then President John F. Kennedy issued an emergency Executive Order allowing immediate immigration of 5,000 immigrants 

from Hong Kong to the United States. So it is possible, and we do 

have that leeway of that number of refugees per fiscal year. 

But I agree with you. South Korea is the best place, but the situation is desperate now. 

Senator ALLEN. What about Canada? As far as Hong Kong was 

concerned, many went to Vancouver. 

Ms. H. LEE. A good place to go. 

Senator ALLEN. It is closest, in many respects. Do you know of 

other countries that share the interests of the United States? Obviously, South Korea does. 

Dr. VOLLERTSEN. There are some European countries, Belgium. 

The Belgian government is very much involved in these human 

rights issues. They are supposed to do something for North Korean 

refugees, and you know about the South Vietnamese boat people. 

That is also what we are talking about now, some North Korean 

boat people, and then because of the pressure of the media, the 

German government in 1979 was forced to accept up to 9,200 of 

31

those South Vietnamese boat people because there was a huge 

media story about those desperate South Vietnamese refugees who 

did not get shelter anywhere on earth, and then the West German 

government at that time decided to give asylum, so that is another 

possibility. We are also in negotiations with some European governments, especially the Belgians and maybe the Germans. 

Ms. H. LEE. There are Koreans all over this world. There are 

many Korean adoptees in Scandinavia, many Korean Canadians, 

many Korean Germans. I think we need to figure out where the 

populations are, where the families are, and get those people involved, as well. It is not just an American issue, it is the entire 

global issue. 

Senator ALLEN. Right, and that is why I think all countries involved in the United Nations, need to pitch in. Again, I thank you 

all. My time is up. Again, thank you for your bravery, but thank 

you most importantly for advocating what I like to call Jeffersonian 

principles. 

Senator BROWNBACK. I thank you for advocating for those who 

are referred to sometimes as tail-less animals in North Korean 

prison camps, for those who do not have faces, but we need to give 

them to them, and names. Thank you very much. 

Senator BROWNBACK. We have a final panel that I will call forward, and if you could come up, I will introduce the entire panel 

as we go, introduce them at the outset. 

The first witness is Felice D. Gaer, Chair–Elect of the Commission on International Religious Freedom and Director of the Jacob 

Blaustein Institute for the Advancement of Human Rights of the 

American Jewish Committee. She was appointed as a public member of nine U.S. delegations to the U.N. human rights negotiations 

between 1993 and 1999. 

The second witness is Mr. Jack Rendler of the U.S. Committee 

for Human Rights in North Korea. Now, at the last minute, he 

could not be here, so Ms. Debra Liang–Fenton, that organization’s 

Executive Director, will offer his testimony. He has worked with organizations including UNICEF to Amnesty International and been 

a human rights activist for more than 25 years. 

The third witness is Jana Mason, who is a policy analyst and 

Congressional liaison for the U.S. Committee on Refugees. Before 

that, she served with the IRSA. 

The final witness is Elisa Massimino, who is the Director of the 

Lawyers Committee for Human Rights based in Washington, D.C. 

She graduated from the University of Michigan Law School and 

has a master’s degree in philosophy from Johns Hopkins. She 

worked with the Lawyers Committee on National Advocacy Program with a special focus on refugees. 

I am delighted that all four of you are here with us today. Because of the press of time, I think we will run the clock at seven 

minutes and get each of you, if you could, to summarize your testimony. We have your written testimony and that will be part of the 

record. But if we could do this in a seven-minute time period each, 

I think that would help move us along. 

Ms. Gaer? 

32

STATEMENT OF FELICE D. GAER, COMMISSIONER, UNITED 

STATES COMMISSION ON INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Ms. GAER. Thank you, Senator. I wanted to thank you also for 

your leadership in holding this hearing, in bringing about this Senate resolution, and inviting the Commission to testify today on the 

conditions of religious freedom and associated human rights. 

The Commission on International Religious Freedom, as you 

know, was created by the Congress as an independent government 

agency specifically to monitor religious freedom violations around 

the world, to review U.S. Government policies in response to violations of religious freedom, and to provide policy recommendations 

to the President, the Secretary of State, and Congress. 

We are very glad that these hearings have been able to amplify 

the harrowing testimony that was presented by many of the witnesses here today. Indeed, the plight of the North Korean refugees 

is closely tied to the deplorable human rights and economic conditions in that country. 

Mr. Chairman, the people of North Korea are perhaps the leastfree people on earth. Religious freedom does not exist, and what little religious activity the government permits is reportedly staged 

for foreign visitors. Thus, in an August 2001 letter to Secretary 

Powell, the Commission on International Religious Freedom recommended that North Korea be named a country of particular concern. 

Now, in October of that year, Secretary Powell followed the Commission’s recommendation and listed North Korea as a country of 

particular concern, or CPC. Now, that means that there are systematic ongoing and egregious severe violations of religious freedom, including torture, disappearances, loss of life, et cetera. 

Specific U.S. action should follow from that designation as a CPC 

and we await information as to what measures the U.S. Government will take because of that characterization. In our recentlyissued annual report, we regretted to find that no action has been 

taken with regard to any country designated CPC that has been 

specifically identified as having flowed from that designation, 

whether for North Korea or other countries. 

Religion has played an important role throughout the history of 

North Korea. Buddhism was introduced there around the fourth 

century. Prior to 1953, the capital of what is now North Korea, 

Pyongyang, was the center of Christianity on the Korean peninsula. Yet after the Korean War, the North Korean government 

harshly repressed religious practice and large numbers of religiously active persons were killed or sent to concentration camps. 

At the same time, the government suppressed religion itself and it 

has since instituted the state ideology of Juche, which emphasizes, 

among other things, the worship of Kim Il Sung, the country’s 

founder. 

Today, the North Korean state continues its practice of severely 

repressing public and private religious activities, including arresting and imprisoning and in some cases torturing and executing persons engaged in such activities. The State Department reports that 

in recent years, the regime has paid particular attention in its 

33

crackdown to those religious persons with ties to overseas evangelical groups operating across the border in China. 

We, in our report, indicated, as has the State Department and 

the witnesses, some of whom were here today, who we have been 

in touch with, that prisoners held because of their religious beliefs 

in North Korea are treated worse than other inmates. Religious 

prisoners, including, in particular, Christians, are reportedly given 

the most dangerous tasks while in prison. They are subject to constant abuse from prison officials in an effort to force them to renounce their faith, as we heard today, and when they refuse, these 

prisoners are often beaten and sometimes tortured to death. 

Simply put, there is no freedom of religion, of belief, of practice, 

or the right to profess one’s faith. The lack of access to religious 

or humanitarian nongovernmental organizations, as well as the 

United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, further exacerbates this crisis. 

The situation is so bad that tens of thousands of North Koreans 

have fled into China for relief, as we have heard. Some refugees 

return home. Anyone suspected of having had contact with Christian organizations while abroad are detained. Many of these disappear and are never heard from again. 

The Commission urges the United States Government to take advantage of any talks that may pursue in the bilateral dialogue to 

raise U.S. concerns about human rights and the humanitarian situation in North Korea. 

Our Commission has, as you know, Senator, focused considerable 

attention on the situation in North Korea. We held a public hearing with many of the witnesses you saw today. We have had extensive consultations with U.S. experts on Korean–U.S. and U.S.–

China policy. In addition, our Chair, Michael Young, has made visits to both South Korea and Japan and interviewed those with 

firsthand knowledge of conditions inside North Korea, including 

many refugees. 

In April of this year, we released our report and recommendations on North Korea. They have three main areas of concern: First 

of all, pursuing an international initiative against human rights 

violations in North Korea; secondly, protecting North Korean refugees; and third, advancing human rights through bilateral contacts. 

I will briefly refer to those, although our full testimony presents 

those items. 

We have recommended that the United States launch a major 

initiative to expose human rights abuses within North Korea and 

to educate the international community about what is occurring 

there. The collection and presentation of information is key to this 

effort. Silence is not an answer. 

We recommend also that the United States Government should 

utilize the Trilateral Coordination Oversight Group, the TCOG, 

which held its most recent meeting in San Francisco early this 

week, to press Japan and South Korea to raise human rights in 

their discussions with Pyongyang. We do not know, and unfortunately, the Assistant Secretary is no longer here, whether, in fact, 

they did that. 

We also believe objective information about the outside world 

must be provided to the people of North Korea. 

34

As far as refugee relief is concerned, the Commission recommends that the United States press the Chinese government to 

recognize as refugees those North Koreans who have fled from the 

DPRK. The key issue here is that the Chinese government does not 

allow the UNHCR to operate in the border region between China 

and North Korea, thereby preventing that organization from interviewing those crossing the border or assessing their status as refugees. 

The Chinese government’s refusal to recognize North Koreans 

who have fled to China as refugees has forced them to remain in 

hiding and many have been exploited and abused as a result. The 

documentation on this is chilling. 

Russia can also be a dangerous place for North Korean refugees. 

We heard something about that from one of the witnesses today. 

It should not be ignored. There are North Korean workers in Russia who are forcibly returned. There are North Korean refugees 

who have sought asylum. 

The issue of the refugees who have sought asylum in the diplomatic compounds in China is also one that we have discussed here 

today. The Commission wishes to make it clear that the North Koreans who fled to China and elsewhere have a well-founded fear of 

persecution if they return to the DPRK. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Ms. Gaer, if we could summarize here, I 

think it would be helpful if you could do that. We do have your 

written testimony. 

Ms. GAER. I would be happy just to say that, as we heard this 

morning, there are hundreds of thousands of Korean Americans 

and people of Korean ancestry in the United States. The North Korean government agreed to resume Korean family reunions. The 

North Korean government should also allow those Americans with 

family ties in North Korea to reunite with their parents, siblings, 

children, and other relatives who are still living in that country. 

That, they should do as a matter of right, and this Congress and 

this government should be pressing for that as a matter of right. 

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my testimony and I ask that the 

prepared remarks as well as the Commission’s report on the DPRK 

be included in the record. Thank you. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Without objection, and thank you very 

much. Sorry for the truncated time, but we have run long on the 

hearing. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Gaer appears as a submission for 

the record.] 

Senator BROWNBACK. Ms. Liang–Fenton? 

STATEMENT OF DEBRA LIANG–FENTON, VICE CHAIRMAN, U.S. 

COMMITTEE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN NORTH KOREA, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 

Ms. LIANG-FENTON. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for the leadership you have shown on this pressing issue, and I am also grateful for the opportunity to speak with you today on behalf of the 

U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea. 

I am presenting testimony submitted by Jack Rendler, Vice 

Chair of the Committee, who sends his apologies and regrets for 

being unable to be with us today. 

35

Before I begin, I also want to thank you, Senator, personally for 

helping to support the showing of the exhibit of the Gil Su family 

illustrations in the Russell Rotunda. The Committee is in possession of 58 of the original illustrations drawn by the children of the 

Gil Su family, who sought asylum in the UNHCR office in Beijing 

last year. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Hold up some of those. This is one where 

he is eating a rat? 

Ms. LIANG-FENTON. Yes. This is actually John Gil Su himself, the 

main illustrator, who is eating a rat and snakes, which is a condition for many desperate people in North Korea who do not have 

enough to eat. 

As you know, the Kim Han Mee family, the five who sought asylum in Shenyang, are the five remaining Gil Su family members, 

who are now also in Seoul. 

This is John Gil Su being forced to confess, and there are many 

others. But we are hoping to get this in the Russell Rotunda so 

that ordinary American citizens and others visiting the U.S. Capitol can get a glimpse of what the harsh reality of life is like for 

ordinary citizens in North Korea. 

One last one, escaping across the Tumen River. These are two of 

the brothers of the Gil Su family. 

It may be of interest to you that this Committee is the U.S. manifestation of the International Campaign for Human Rights in 

North Korea. There are similar committee structures in Canada, 

France, Germany, and Japan, as well as networks and individual 

actors throughout Europe and Asia. 

The campaign began in December of 1999 at a conference held 

in Seoul by the Citizens Alliance for Human Rights in North 

Korea. In its written submission, the U.S. Committee has provided 

the subcommittee with the following: A summary of what is known 

or can be reliably surmised about human rights in the Democratic 

People’s Republic of Korea, a set of detailed recommendations for 

policy and practice, the founding declaration for the U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, and Suzanne Scholte, 

one of our board members, has requested that we submit officially 

her testimony. 

Senator BROWNBACK. It will be in the record, without objection. 

Ms. LIANG-FENTON. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Scholte appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Ms. LIANG-FENTON. Today, with the mission and purview of the 

subcommittee in mind, I would like to highlight some of the more 

disturbing aspects of human rights in North Korea and the impact 

of those abuses on North Korean refugees in China. 

For over 50 years, the people of the Democratic People’s Republic 

of Korea have been denied even the most basic of their human 

rights, denied any contact with the rest of the world, and isolated 

from each other. Human rights violations and abuses affect a large 

majority of the 23 million North Korean people. There is precious 

little specific information available about human rights in North 

Korea since the government refuses entry to international human 

rights groups. This in itself is cause for profound concern. 

36

It is estimated that the DPRK is holding over 200,000 political 

prisoners. The government detains and imprisons people at will. 

Political prisoners in North Korea may be held in any one of a variety of facilities—detention centers, labor rehabilitation centers, juvenile centers, maximum security prisons, relocation areas, and 

sanitoriums. Reeducation means forced labor, usually logging or 

mining under brutal conditions. Entire families, including children, 

are detained because of supposed political deviation by one relative. 

Judicial review does not exist, and the criminal justice system operates at the behest of the government. 

On July 10, 2002 [sic], the New York Times carried a report on 

one of the grimmer aspects of imprisonment in North Korea, forced 

abortions and infanticide committed regularly and routinely by 

prison officials. The Times recounted instances of pregnant women 

tortured or medically induced to provoke miscarriage. If a baby is 

born, it is left to die or smothered with a plastic sheet or bag. 

Other female prisoners are forced to assist with abortions and 

killings. The most savage treatment is apparently reserved for refugees pregnant with children fathered in China, who have been 

forcibly returned to North Korea. 

The population is subjected to a constant barrage of propaganda 

by government-controlled media, the only source of information. 

The opinions of North Koreans are monitored by government security organizations through electronic surveillance, neighborhood 

and workplace committees, and information extracted from acquaintances. Children are encouraged to inform on their parents. 

Independent public gatherings are not allowed, and all organizations are created and controlled by the government. 

The government forcibly resettles political suspect families. Private property does not exist. North Korean citizens do not have the 

right to propose or effect a change of government. 

Religious freedom does not exist. The religious activity that is allowed appears to have one of two purposes, to deify the founder of 

the DPRK, Kim Il Sung, and by extension his son, the current leader, Kim Jung Il, or to demonstrate to faith-based aid groups that 

some traditional religious activity is tolerated. Alternatively, classes to study Kim Il Sung’s revolutionary ideology are held throughout the country. 

I am just skipping ahead here to save on time. I want to talk a 

little bit about the North Korean refugees in China. Leaving the 

DPRK is considered treason, punishable by long prison terms or 

execution. Yet, the Voice of America estimates that as many as 

300,000 North Koreans have fled to China. With the onset of famine in the early 1990s, tens of thousands of North Koreans, the majority under-nourished women and children, crossed into China’s 

Northeastern provinces. There are an estimated 140,000 to 150,000 

North Korean refugees currently in China living in fear of arrest, 

many women forced into prostitution or abusive marriages. 

Refugees are pursued by agents of the North Korean Public Security Service and many have reported that the Chinese government 

has been offering awards—sorry. Excuse me. The South China 

Morning Post has reported that the Chinese government has been 

offering rewards to those delivering North Korean refugees to police. 

37

China claims that it considers these refugees to be purely economic migrants. While hunger may be one motive for their movement, there are other realities. It is the nature of the political system in North Korea, with its discriminatory distribution of resources, that makes feeding a family impossible in some areas. 

Being hungry does not necessarily prevent these people from also 

feeling oppressed. The criminal, political, and social persecution 

that accompanies forcible return to North Korea surely makes 

these people political refugees once they are in China. 

China is a party to the 1951 U.S. Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, under which it has agreed not to expel refugees 

to a country where their life or freedom would be threatened. 

To save time, I would like to skip to some action recommendations that the Committee would like to put forward for consideration. 

One, make lifting the seige of the North Korean people by its 

own government a human rights priority of U.S. policy. As he did 

on his last trip to South Korea, President Bush should take every 

opportunity to express his concern for the plight of the North Korean people and his commitment to assisting in the restoration of 

their rights and well-being. 

Two, the protections offered by U.S. law and policy to refugee 

populations in danger should be extended to North Korean refugees 

in China. 

Three, urge the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees to take 

immediate action to press the PRC to fulfill its obligations under 

the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees and end its 

practice of cooperating in the forced repatriation of North Koreans. 

Four, find new ways to provide information to the people of 

North Korea. Develop multiple channels of exchange and contact. 

An undetermined number of radios in North Korea can receive foreign broadcasts at certain times. Use television broadcasts where 

possible to reach leadership elite. Establish exchange programs, beginning with university students and health care professionals. 

Call for the formation of an informal Congressional caucus on the 

model of what has been done on Burma, to participate in a multinational parliamentary network on human rights in North Korea. 

Such structures have recently been formed within the British Parliament and the Japanese Diet. 

Human rights in North Korea should be a constant and prominent item on the agenda of the ROK U.S.–Japan Trilateral Coordination and Oversight Group. 

Provide humanitarian aid to North Korea while pressing the government of Pyongyang to ensure that distribution of such aid is 

monitored by independent international relief organizations and 

concrete progress is made on human rights performance. 

Encourage corporations planning to do business in North Korea 

to develop a code of conduct similar to the Sullivan Principles applied in South Africa. 

Provide support for new research and a comprehensive new report. We must begin by acknowledging the lack of reliable information on any aspect of human freedom in North Korea. We know 

that large numbers of people are imprisoned for their beliefs, but 

we do not know how many, who they are, where they are held, how 

38

long their sentences are. We know that imprisonment involves 

harsh conditions, including forced labor, poor food and health care, 

and torture, but we do not know just how bad it is for which kinds 

of prisoners at which kinds of prisons. 

We know that the government divides the population into segments according to perceived levels of loyalty to the regime and we 

know that the distribution of goods and services benefits those perceived to be most loyal and fails to serve others, but we do not 

know exactly what the consequences are for which people. 

Such reporting will need to be done by an entity with the experience and the capacity to get it right and the independence and reputation necessary to be heard in Pyongyang. This is work that the 

U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea is currently undertaking. 

The time has come to expose this repression, and by so doing to 

make clear that the norms of human rights as defined by the 

United Nations apply as much to the people of North Korea as to 

the people of other countries. Significantly, North Korea has ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and 

the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural 

Rights. It, therefore, owes its own citizens and the world community a commitment to comply with the provisions of these documents and it must be held accountable for policies and actions that 

violate these norms. Thank you, Senators. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you very much. 

Ms. Mason? 

STATEMENT OF JANA MASON, ASIA POLICY ANALYST, U.S. 

COMMITTEE ON REFUGEES, WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Ms. MASON. Thank you, Senator Brownback. I would like to 

thank you and Senator Kennedy for holding this hearing, Senator 

Allen, for your interest and for attending. 

Obviously, this issue, North Korean refugees, particularly North 

Korean refugees in China, raises a lot of political sensitivities. We 

have heard those discussed today. As you are aware, refugees 

themselves create political concerns all over the world, but those 

concerns should not outweigh our human rights obligations, so I 

am very happy that this hearing is being held. 

I am going to focus, since witnesses today have covered most of 

the details, I am going to focus on just a few of the nitty-gritty aspects of international refugee protection, some policies, procedures, 

and legalities, and the reason I think these are important is because these legalities are things that the Chinese government, the 

international community, and even our own government, the State 

Department and the INS, can look to as a rationale for not doing 

all that we can for North Korean refugees. So I just want to make 

sure that we are very clear on where we are on these. 

Senator BROWNBACK. If you could make sure to focus on what actions you think we should be taking—

Ms. MASON. Yes. 

Senator BROWNBACK. —that is really what we need to hone in on 

as much as we can. 

Ms. MASON. Yes, I will do that as I discuss each one. 

39

The first is the question of whether North Koreans are refugees. 

After all we have heard discussed today, we would think that it 

would be a given that any North Korean who manages to escape 

the country would be considered a refugee under international refugee law. But I can tell you that when the INS starts interviewing, 

if and when that happens, there may be cases where they say because of this reason or because of that reason, the person does not 

qualify under the Convention. China, of course, already labels everybody ‘‘food migrant’’ who comes out. So we need to be clear if 

we are going to push the international community, China, and our 

own government to accept refugee status for these people, we need 

to be clear why they are refugees. 

First, as we have heard from many witnesses, North Korea is a 

highly authoritarian regime with an abysmal human rights record. 

Even without the famine that has racked North Korea since the 

mid–1990s, it is likely that most, if not all, North Koreans who 

manage to escape would have strong claims to refugee status. But 

the famine itself has added to the means by which the government 

can persecute its opponents. Despite tremendous reliance on international food aid, the North Korean government fails to operate a 

transparent food distribution system and often denies NGOs access 

to the country’s most vulnerable people. That is one of the reasons 

so many NGOs have pulled out in recent years. 

The government categorizes its population based on perceived 

loyalty and usefulness to the regime and it channels food aid accordingly. The government has also blocked aid to parts of the 

country that have seen anti-government rebellions in recent years. 

Now, a government’s denial of food aid for political reasons can 

give rise to a valid claim of refugee status, in addition to any other 

forms of persecution the individual might claim—religious persecution, some others that we have heard about today. But the story 

does not end there. 

As we have heard on this panel and others, under North Korean 

law, defection or attempted defection is a capital crime. The criminal code states that a defector who is returned shall be committed 

to a reform institution for not less than seven years. As was mentioned, in cases where the person commits ‘‘an extremely grave concern,’’ he or she shall be given the death penalty. North Korean authorities are apparently most concerned with defectors who, while 

they were in China, had contact with South Koreans, Christians, 

or foreigners. This could be one of those grave concerns that ends 

them the death penalty. The government subjects these people, if 

not to execution, then certainly to harsh treatment and torture, 

placement in work camps, and other forms of persecution. 

So, therefore, the use of food as a weapon, religious persecution, 

and the fact that they would fear execution or very harsh treatment upon return clearly makes these people refugees, even with 

little concrete knowledge about what else they may be going under. 

Now, the second issue is China’s response to the North Korean 

refugees. As I think was mentioned, China has a treaty with North 

Korea that says that it will return all defectors. Notwithstanding 

that, for a number of years, China informally tolerated the presence of a lot of North Koreans, and even to some extent provided 

assistance. 

40

This situation changed in 1999. That year, China began forcibly 

returning large numbers of North Koreans, and since then, they 

have accelerated every year. Most recently, we have what is known 

as the Strike Hard campaign against crime, directed very largely 

at North Koreans. According to some aid groups, China arrested 

some 6,000 North Koreans in two months of 2001 alone, and that 

is just a snapshot. The overall numbers are very unclear. 

China’s treatment of North Koreans in its territory is clearly a 

violation of the Refugee Convention that has been discussed. It is 

a violation of Article 33, known as nonrefoulement. You cannot return a refugee to any place where they could fear persecution. 

China has no domestic law on refugee protection, despite the fact 

that it has signed on to the Convention. It has no system for determining refugee status. If it did, it could interview them one by one, 

and if it decided they were not refugees, then legally it could send 

them back. Of course, we would have to decide if we thought their 

system was valid. 

But not only does it have no system of its own, but even though 

UNHCR operates an office in Beijing and asylum seekers from 

other countries can come there and apply for refugee status and 

China cooperates with that, it does not allow UNHCR a role with 

respect to the North Koreans. Other than that one highly publicized case last year, the Jung case, North Koreans rarely can 

make it all the way to Beijing or get into the UNHCR office. 

The Chinese government has not allowed UNHCR a role with 

North Koreans on the border since 1999. That year, UNHCR did 

a mission to the border and they actually did some interviews and 

determined that some North Koreans were refugees. As a result, 

China reprimanded UNHCR for this action and since then has denied them permission even to travel to the border area. This is also 

a violation of the Refugee Convention that says that countries have 

to cooperate with UNHCR in carrying out UNHCR’s role, which is 

to supervise the Convention. So China is basically attempting to 

just define these people out of the Convention. 

Obviously, the main recommendation we have is the international community should pressure China to maintain its obligations under the Convention, not return North Koreans to North 

Korea, and allow international aid in China. It is very dangerous 

for any aid worker working in the border area assisting them. 

Now, in terms of refoulement, forced return, I also want to mention, based on the discussion this morning, that the U.S. Committee for Refugees does believe that any embassy or consulate 

that handed over North Koreans to the Chinese government would 

also be committing refoulement. This is a fuzzier area. The Refugee 

Convention says you cannot return or expel any refugee to a place 

where they would be suffering persecution. Well, return or expel 

them from where? We have already determined embassies are not 

technically the soil of the country that they represent, but also because of the special status of embassies, they are protected against 

interference by the host country. 

So I think because of this unique status, it could be argued that 

if you allowed North Koreans to be taken out by Chinese guards, 

that you would be expelling them or returning them to a place 

where they could face persecution because China would then return 

41

them to North Korea. So you would be subjecting them to return 

to persecution, an argument that has been used by refugee advocates. So I think, clearly, even though others may argue otherwise, 

the U.S. or any government whose embassy or consulate allowed 

the Chinese guards to take these people out of the embassy would 

also be violating the Convention and committing refoulement. 

The third point I want to make has to do with South Korea’s response. We have heard a lot of people say the answer is just send 

them all to South Korea. That is where they want to go anyway. 

No argument that, for the most part, North Koreans from China 

or elsewhere do want to go to South Korea, cultural ties, family 

ties, and South Korea has been extremely generous in their response to North Korean refugees and giving them status. 

But I also think we need to mention that there have been cases 

where the South Korean government has been known to harshly 

interrogate North Koreans who it suspects of spying, and in some 

cases has turned away asylum seekers who do not have any valuable intelligence information to share. So even though I have no 

doubt that South Korea is able and willing to do even more than 

they are doing now, accepting 500-and-some people a year is a far 

cry from giving automatic status to tens of thousands, maybe even 

hundreds of thousands of people. 

So I think if and when we are able to get the Chinese government to open up more and allow passage for the North Koreans, 

I do not think that they can all just flood into South Korea at once. 

I think the international community will have to help them absorb 

more North Koreans and also be willing to do our part to take 

them in. 

And that goes to the last thing that I want to say, which is, as 

Secretary Dewey stated this morning, there are procedures to 

admit people as refugees, but there are some glitches. Secretary 

Dewey kept saying we have to get UNHCR a role there. Once we 

get a role for UNHCR, then we can resettle some of these people. 

We need to make clear, yes, a UNHCR role, if China were willing 

to allow that, would certainly facilitate third country resettlement, 

whether in South Korea or elsewhere. But the U.S. under its own 

law does not need UNHCR to bring refugees in. We can bring in 

Priority One cases through embassy identification only. The U.S. 

embassy in any country—yes, North Korea is on that short list Secretary Dewey mentioned where they would need permission of 

Washington, but they could get permission for a U.S. embassy in 

any country, including China, to refer to the U.S. resettlement program a North Korean who was vulnerable and who needed protection. 

Second, since we discussed the P–2 mechanism this morning, the 

U.S., the State Department can set up a Priority Two refugee processing system. Theoretically, they could do it for North Koreans out 

of China. Again, you would need China’s permission. And they 

could bring in significant numbers of North Koreans without any 

role whatsoever for UNHCR. So we should not make a mistake, 

once again, of using UNHCR as a gatekeeper to prevent us to do 

something that we have the mechanism to do by ourselves. 

So, obviously, we need to pressure China to recognize these people as refugees, not send them back to North Korea, allow aid in, 

42

allow safe passage to where they want to go. We need to help 

South Korea absorb large numbers that the U.S. and the international community need to be prepared to resettle through whatever mechanism they have in their domestic laws, North Koreans 

who have family ties here or for whom there is some other reason 

that this is the best place for them to go. Thank you. 

Senator BROWNBACK. That is an excellent statement, very 

thoughtful, very well reasoned. 

I met with some Chinese officials and asked them, how many 

numbers do they think of North Korean refugees are in China, and 

the official said, ‘‘Well, there are none.’’ I said, well, what would 

you do if there were any? ‘‘Well, there are not any.’’ Well, what 

would you do? Would you make them go back to North Korea? 

‘‘Well, it would be on an individual case-by-case basis.’’ They are 

being pretty disingenuous to me, given the facts and the numbers 

that are in front of us. I am hopeful that official is catching some 

of the summary of this hearing. Thank you for a very good statement. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Ms. Massimino? 

STATEMENT OF ELISA MASSIMINO, LAWYERS COMMITTEE 

FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Ms. MASSIMINO. Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting the 

Lawyers Committee here today to provide our views and recommendations on this important issue. 

I note yesterday, celebrating World Refugee Day, it was a great 

opportunity for us to celebrate the contributions of refugees to our 

own society, but it was also a time for reflection about those refugees who, like the North Koreans, have been driven out of their 

homes by their own governments, persecuted by so-called host governments like China, and then failed by the international system 

that has been designed to be their safety net. So I really am grateful to you—we all are—for this opportunity to talk about what we 

can do. 

I would like to focus my remarks on exactly that. There is, 

thanks to you and to other members of Congress and the courage 

of humanitarian workers and those courageous refugees who have 

been able to get out and speak about their experiences, the challenge we now face is not one of lack of interest in this issue. It is 

easy to condemn North Korea. What could be easier? But to help 

North Korean refugees is going to cost the United States something. It is going to cost some money and it is going to cost some 

diplomatic capital and the question is, what is the United States 

willing to do to alleviate this suffering and ensure protection for 

North Korean refugees? 

First, the administration has to make clear to all concerned countries, in particular China and South Korea, that resettlement of 

North Korean refugees in the United States is a serious option that 

we are immediately prepared to pursue. While it is certainly true 

that China should be granting North Korean refugees asylum and 

South Korea should be more aggressively offering to take North 

Korean refugees in, that is just not the current reality. 

There are so many times that we have seen the prolonged failure 

of the United States to make an offer of resettlement a real option 

43

for those for whom no other solution is possible is used by other 

countries involved in the refugee crisis as an excuse for inaction. 

It is way past time for the United States to step up and make really clear that we are willing to open our doors to these refugees if 

others will not. 

Second, the United States has to bring more pressure on China 

to abide by its obligations, clearly under the Convention and protocol. If it is not willing to grant asylum to North Korean refugees, 

then it must, first and foremost, refrain from sending them back 

to face persecution and death. The Chinese government is obligated 

under the Convention and the protocol to facilitate convention for 

North Korean and for all refugees in its territory if it is not willing 

to grant that protection itself. 

The administration should strongly urge China to permit 

UNHCR to operate in the border region between China and North 

Korea so that it can interview those crossing the border and assess 

their status as refugees, and the administration should strongly 

urge China to permit North Korean refugees to leave China and either be resettled or be free to seek asylum in other countries. 

Third, the administration has to ensure that it is not sending 

China mixed signals about its international obligations towards refugees. When questioned last week about the administration’s view 

of this diplomatic communication from the Chinese government 

that was sent to embassies in Beijing that purportedly demanded 

that asylum seekers be turned over to Chinese authority, I was astonished to read the exchange at the press briefing at the State Department where spokesman Richard Boucher seemed to go to great 

lengths to avoid saying that the United States would not comply 

with such demands. The United States needs to make very clear 

to the Chinese government that it has no intention of handing asylum seekers over to a government whose stated policy is in clear 

violation of international obligations. 

Fourth, the administration must make absolutely sure that the 

United States is in no way complicit in the Chinese government’s 

violations of international human rights law being perpetrated 

against the North Korean refugees. The United States provides a 

substantial amount of financial assistance, as well as training, to 

the Chinese to assist them in combatting alien smuggling and illegal migration. How sure are we that this assistance is not being 

used by or enabling the Chinese government to combat the flight 

of North Korean refugees seeking to escape from oppression and 

persecution? 

I would urge the Senate to diligently monitor the uses to which 

U.S. anti-smuggling assistance to China is put. North Koreans who 

have fled China have been doubly victimized. I urge you to do all 

you can to ensure that the United States is not an unwitting accomplice to that abuse. 

Finally, in order to continue to lead effectively on this and other 

refugee protection issues, the administration has got to make sure 

that our own house is in order. The situation of the North Korean 

people is extremely dire and deserves the urgent attention that we 

are giving it today. But we need not look halfway around the world 

to see injustice being done to refugees. 

44

Yesterday, in his statement commemorating World Refugee Day, 

the President promised that, ‘‘America will always stand firm for 

the non-negotiable demands of human dignity and the rule of law.’’ 

But as we sit here today, asylum seekers who came to America 

seeking protection and freedom sit in U.S. jails, or worse, are being 

turned away unjustly without the chance to even ask for protection. 

A little over a year ago, many of us sat in this room transfixed 

by the testimony of refugees from Tibet, Cameroon, and Afghanistan who came here seeking freedom and found, to our shame, 

handcuffs and a prison uniform. Those present were deeply moved, 

as we have been today, by their courage, their love of freedom, and 

of this, their new home, despite the injustices that they suffered 

under our misguided immigration system. Thankfully, following 

that hearing, which was chaired by you, Senator Brownback, a bipartisan group of Senators and Representatives, which you led, introduced a bill that would restore American values to our asylum 

system called the Refugee Protection Act. 

The National Association of Evangelicals, in its Second Statement of Conscience released last month, focused specifically on the 

human rights crises in North Korea and Sudan. The statement concludes, and I quote, ‘‘In the case of both countries, we will, in particular, work for enactment of the Refugee Protection Act, legislation profoundly consistent with American traditions of opening our 

doors to genuine refugees of religious and political persecution.’’

The U.S. must lead the way to safety for North Korean refugees. 

It must pass the Refugee Protection Act. I can think of no more fitting way to put the President’s eloquent words of yesterday into 

practical effect. Thank you. 

Senator BROWNBACK. Thank you very much, and thank you for 

the added plug on the Refugee Protection Act. That is language 

that we need to get moving forward and move with the issue. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Massimino appears as a submission for the record.] 

Senator BROWNBACK. This has been an excellent panel. It has 

been a very thoughtful panel and it has been a lot more, I think, 

than the nuts and bolts of what we need to press forward with 

here. I look forward to working with you and with your organizations as we push this issue on forward. 

Some of you were here, I think maybe all of you were here for 

Secretary Dewey’s statement and I think we have some work to do 

to press this on forward. But I am hopeful that with the visibility 

that some of this is gaining, some of the interest, some of the focus 

that is taking place, we are going to be able to have a better dialogue to get something resolved soon. 

This is happening now. This is on us now. I do not think it is 

one of those things that we can say, we are going to study this for 

six months or this or that. I think it is one of the things that we 

really need to press on at this point in time, because people’s lives 

are in the balance at this time. The longer we wait, the longer we 

dawdle, the more people suffer and the more people die in the process. 

So I hope we can work together and team up on pressing on the 

legal grounds. I think there is very clear and very convincing legal 

45

grounds for us to press forward in China and with the Chinese in 

the United States, and what we would do for helping these refugees resettle there, here, various places, as long as this regime is 

in place that chooses to so abuse power. I thought that was a very 

well put phrase by Ms. Lee, to so abuse power to treat its people 

so poorly. So I want to thank the panel for being here. 

Senator Allen? 

Senator ALLEN. Thank you, Senator Brownback. 

Thank you all for your eloquent remarks. Ms. Gaer, Felice Gaer, 

my middle name is Felix after my grandfather, whose birthday is 

today. He is no longer alive, but he had been imprisoned by the 

Nazis during World War II because of pathetic French resistance. 

He is from Tunisia, French Tunisian. 

The three of you brought up the food aid, the food assistance 

there and a concern about making sure that the food is getting to 

the people. We heard from our friend from Germany, the doctor, 

earlier about who is getting the food. Do you have any way of 

tracking this aid? Obviously, it is not going to be simple. The principle is right. How, as a practical matter, could we concretely make 

sure that the humanitarian food aid, is actually getting to the people who are starving? Is there any strong, clear guidance you can 

give us or to others who are helping out with this food aid to make 

sure that is being done? 

Ms. LIANG-FENTON. I think it is quite simple. 

Senator ALLEN. All right, good. 

Ms. LIANG-FENTON. Pyongyang could allow for the humanitarian 

aid groups to distribute and monitor their food packages and to 

keep records, to get records from the North Koreans on where the 

food is going. I do not think that is too much to ask. 

Senator ALLEN. Would the North Korean government allow that? 

Ms. LIANG-FENTON. No. 

Senator ALLEN. What would they say? They would say no. So 

then we are in the dilemma of, since they say no, will there be an 

understanding and recognition that because of their not acquiescing to nongovernmental organizations distributing the food, that 

we are doing all that we can, because otherwise all we would be 

doing is helping prop up and feed the tyrants as opposed to the 

people. 

Ms. LIANG-FENTON. It is a very controversial issue. It is an important issue. It has been reported that North Korea can produce 

enough food to feed its own military. If that is the case, and if they 

are getting—they are getting a lot of food from the World Food Programme and others, although that is diminishing, I suppose that 

what you could say is that if some of the food is getting to some 

of the most vulnerable in that society, meaning the under-six 

crowd, that it is worth continuing humanitarian aid. But by the 

same token, we really need to be pushing for them to be responsible for their own people and for where this food is going. These 

are coming from donor countries. I think that it behooves North 

Korea to let the donor countries in to see where the food is going. 

Senator ALLEN. That makes sense. Let me ask another question 

that was brought up. You all made so many good points, and I 

have such a short time to ask you all questions. I do agree with 

you that whether it is the issue of the nonrefoulement obligations, 

46

which is a bedrock principle that China must follow. Maybe they 

have conflicting laws because of their arrangements with North 

Korea. Nevertheless, there are bedrock principles that apply, just 

like the Statute of Religious Freedom as a national concept. 

Regardless, you get to this issue that Ms. Massimino brought up. 

You did not number your pages, but you are talking about the 

United States providing a substantial amount of financial assistance to the Chinese as well as training to the Chinese to assist 

them in combatting alien smuggling and illegal migration. Now, 

why are we providing that? What is the problem in China with illegal migration and alien smuggling that the United States would be 

providing any taxpayer dollars for that? 

Ms. MASSIMINO. That, Senator, was initiated and stepped up 

after situations like the Golden Venture boat that brought more 

than 300, I think, Chinese to New York Harbor, and many of them 

fleeing, of course, family planning policies of the PRC. 

Senator ALLEN. Otherwise known as forced abortion for having 

more than one child. 

Ms. MASSIMINO. Exactly, enforced sterilization. The Clinton administration launched a program of training of Chinese law enforcement and assistance to help the Chinese prevent people from 

leaving in boats to come to the United States, to be blunt. I have 

not been able to get the kind of assurances I would want from our 

government that that aid is being monitored closely enough to 

make sure—I mean, this category, alien smuggling and illegal migrants, from the Chinese perspective, as we have heard today, the 

Chinese would view that as applicable to North Korean refugees 

coming across the border. 

So I am just concerned, and I would hope that is not happening 

and I would want to make sure that we are monitoring that aid 

and that all parts of our government are kind of talking together 

about that to make sure that that is not happening. 

Senator ALLEN. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. It 

was something I was completely unaware of until you brought it 

up. I think that whole program ought to be reviewed, period. If it 

is going to continue, we need to properly monitor it. 

I thank you all, and I especially want to thank Senator 

Brownback for his great leadership on this. We are going to work 

together. We both do serve on the Foreign Relations Committee, as 

well, so from various angles, we want to work to make sure that 

people of North Korea hopefully some day soon will enjoy basic 

human rights. Most importantly, we need to move as expeditiously 

as possible to alleviate the suffering and have people settled, hopefully in South Korea, maybe Mongolia, and some in the United 

States. We all need to do our part, and I thank you all for your 

commitment to these wonderful principles. 

You have two Senators here, and I believe also Senator Kennedy, 

as well, to make sure the American people know what is going on 

in North Korea. We will be advocates alongside of you. Thank you 

all so much. 

Senator BROWNBACK. That is excellent. Thank you, Senator 

Allen. This is an excellent panel. 

I was reading in Isaiah the other day and the prophet was noting 

that people’s prayers were not being answered, and they were fastVerDate Mar 21 2002 11:23 May 08, 2003 Jkt 086829 PO 00000 Frm 00050 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\HEARINGS\86829.TXT SJUD4 PsN: CMORC
47

ing and they were not being answered, and the prophet responded, 

‘‘Is this not the fast that I have chosen to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, 

and that you break every yoke. Is it not to share your bread with 

the hungry and that you bring to your house the poor who are cast 

out. If you want to have your prayers answered, that is the fast 

that I want, is that you would do those things.’’ I think that is pretty good advice to us, as well. 

I want to thank the panelists for being here. I think it has been 

an excellent, illuminating hearing, certainly for me. 

I want to note a couple of things will be made a part of the 

record. The first is Ms. Jung Yoon Kim, producer of ‘‘Shadows and 

Whispers,’’ a documentary on North Korean refugees living in 

China that was shown on ABC News ‘‘Nightline’’ as a three-part 

series a few weeks back, she has a statement for the record. 

Senator BROWNBACK. The second is a statement for the record 

from UNHCR. 

Finally, I would like to ask that a letter from World Relief, a subsidiary of the National Association of Evangelicals, be made a part 

of the record. This letter notes World Relief’s willingness to assist 

with resettling refugees from North Korea. 

The record will remain open the requisite number of days for additional comments. 

The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 1:08 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

[Submissions for the record follow.]

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