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DOJ’S QUID PRO QUO WITH ST. PAUL: A 

WHISTLEBLOWER’S PERSPECTIVE 

JOINT HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC GROWTH, 

JOB CREATION AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND 

GOVERNMENT REFORM 

AND THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION AND CIVIL 

JUSTICE 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

MAY 7, 2013 

Serial No. 113–23 

(Committee on Oversight and Government Reform) 

Serial No. 113–6 

(Committee on Judiciary) 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

http://www.house.gov/reform http://judiciary.house.gov 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM 

DARRELL E. ISSA, California, Chairman 

JOHN L. MICA, Florida 

MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio 

JOHN J. DUNCAN, JR., Tennessee 

PATRICK T. MCHENRY, North Carolina 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio 

JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah 

TIM WALBERG, Michigan 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan 

PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona 

PATRICK MEEHAN, Pennsylvania 

SCOTT DESJARLAIS, Tennessee 

TREY GOWDY, South Carolina 

BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas 

DOC HASTINGS, Washington 

CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming 

ROB WOODALL, Georgia 

THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky 

DOUG COLLINS, Georgia 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

KERRY L. BENTIVOLIO, Michigan 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland, Ranking 

Minority Member 

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York 

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of 

Columbia 

JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts 

WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri 

STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts 

JIM COOPER, Tennessee 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

JACKIE SPEIER, California 

MATTHEW A. CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania 

MARK POCAN, Wisconsin 

TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois 

ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois 

DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois 

PETER WELCH, Vermont 

TONY CARDENAS, California 

STEVEN A. HORSFORD, Nevada 

MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, New Mexico 

LAWRENCE J. BRADY, Staff Director 

JOHN D. CUADERES, Deputy Staff Director 

STEPHEN CASTOR, General Counsel 

LINDA A. GOOD, Chief Clerk 

DAVID RAPALLO, Minority Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC GROWTH, JOB CREATION AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS

JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chairman 

JOHN DUNCAN, Tennessee 

PATRICK T. MCHENRY, North Carolina 

PAUL GOSAR, Arizona 

PATRICK MEEHAN, Pennsylvania 

SCOTT DESJARLAIS, Tennessee 

DOC HASTINGS, Washington 

CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming 

DOUG COLLINS, Georgia 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

KERRY BENTIVOLIO, Michigan 

RON DESANTIS Florida 

MATTHEW A. CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania, 

Ranking Minority Member 

TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

MARK POCAN, Wisconsin 

DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois 

STEVEN A. HORSFORD, Nevada 

(III) 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

BOB GOODLATTE, Virginia, Chairman 

F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., 

Wisconsin 

HOWARD COBLE, North Carolina 

LAMAR SMITH, Texas 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama 

DARRELL E. ISSA, California 

J. RANDY FORBES, Virginia 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

TRENT FRANKS, Arizona 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio 

TED POE, Texas 

JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

TREY GOWDY, South Carolina 

MARK AMODEI, Nevada 

RAU?AE1L LABRADOR, Idaho 

BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas 

GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina 

DOUG COLLINS, Georgia 

RON DeSANTIS, Florida 

[Vacant] 

JOHN CONYERS, JR., Michigan 

JERROLD NADLER, New York 

ROBERT C. ‘‘BOBBY’’ SCOTT, Virginia 

MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina 

ZOE LOFGREN, California 

SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas 

STEVE COHEN, Tennessee 

HENRY C. ‘‘HANK’’ JOHNSON, JR., 

Georgia 

PEDRO R. PIERLUISI, Puerto Rico 

JUDY CHU, California 

TED DEUTCH, Florida 

LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois 

KAREN BASS, California 

CEDRIC RICHMOND, Louisiana 

SUZAN DelBENE, Washington 

JOE GARCIA, Florida 

HAKEEM JEFFRIES, New York 

SHELLEY HUSBAND, Chief of Staff & General Counsel 

PERRY APELBAUM, Minority Staff Director & Chief Counsel 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION AND CIVIL JUSTICE

TRENT FRANKS, Arizona, Chairman 

JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Vice-Chairman 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

J. RANDY FORBES, Virginia 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

RON DeSANTIS, Florida 

[Vacant] 

JERROLD NADLER, New York 

JOHN CONYERS, JR., Michigan 

ROBERT C. ‘‘BOBBY’’ SCOTT, Virginia 

STEVE COHEN, Tennessee 

TED DEUTCH, Florida 

PAUL B. TAYLOR, Chief Counsel 

DAVID LACHMANN, Minority Staff Director 

(V) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on May 7, 2013 ................................................................................. 1 

WITNESSES 

The Honorable Charles E. Grassley, A U.S. Senator from the State of Iowa 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 10 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 14 

The Honorable Johnny Isakson, A U.S. Senator from the State of Georgia 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 19 

Mr. Fredrick Newell, St. Paul, Minnesota, Accompanied by Mr. Thomas 

Devincke, Malkerson Gunn Martin LLP 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 21 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 24 

Ms. Shelley R. Slade, Partner, Vogel, Slade and Goldstein, LLP 

Oral Statement ................................................................................................. 56 

Written Statement ............................................................................................ 59 

APPENDIX 

Letter to the Honorable Christopher B. Coleman, Mayor, City of Saint Paul ... 96 

Letters to The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr., Attorney General, U.S. Department of Justice ..................................................................................................... 101 

Letters to the Honorable Thomas E. Perez, Assistant Attorney General, Civil 

Rights Division, U.S. Department of Justice ..................................................... 109 

Letter from Gary L. Azorsky and Jeanne A. Markey, Cohen Milstein ............... 114 

Letter from Ben Bernia, The Vernia Law Firm .................................................... 118 

Mr. Stephen Gillers, Elihu Root Professor of Law, New York University 

School of Law, Statement .................................................................................... 124 

The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, a Member of Congress from the State of 

New York, Opening Statement ........................................................................... 126 

The Honorable Elijah E. Cummings, a Member of Congress from the State 

of Maryland, Opening Statement ....................................................................... 130 

(1) 

DOJ’S QUID PRO QUO WITH ST. PAUL: A 

WHISTLEBLOWER’S PERSPECTIVE 

Tuesday, May 7, 2013 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC GROWTH, JOB CREATION, 

AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS, 

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM, JOINT

WITH SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION AND CIVIL

JUSTICE, COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, 

Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittees met, pursuant to call, at 10:06 a.m., in Room 

2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jim Jordan [chairman 

of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth] presiding. 

Present: Committee on Oversight and Government Reform: Representatives Jordan, DeSantis, Duncan, McHenry, Collins, Meadows, Issa, Cartwright, Connolly, Pocan, Kelly, Horsford, and 

Cummings. 

Committee on the Judiciary: Representatives Franks, Goodlatte, 

Chabot, King, Gohmert, Nadler, Conyers, Scott, and Jackson Lee. 

Staff Present, Committee on Oversight and Government Reform: 

Ali Ahmad, Communications Advisor; Alexia Ardolina, Assistant 

Clerk; Molly Boyl, Parliamentarian; Lawrence J. Brady, Staff Director; David Brewer, Senior Counsel; Ashley H. Callen, Senior 

Counsel; Steve Castor, General Counsel; John Cuaderes, Deputy 

Staff Director; Adam P. Fromm, Director of Member Services and 

Committee Operations; Linda Good, Chief Clerk; Tyler Grimm, 

Senior Professional Staff Member; Christopher Hixon, Deputy 

Chief Counsel, Oversight; Michael R. Kiko, Staff Assistant; Justin 

LoFranco, Digital Director; Mark D. Marin, Director of Oversight; 

Laura L. Rush, Deputy Chief Clerk; Jaron Bourke, Minority Director of Administration; Jennifer Hoffman, Minority Press Secretary; 

Carla Hultberg, Minority Chief Clerk; Adam Koshkin, Minority Research Assistant; Jason Powell, Minority Senior Counsel; Brian 

Quinn, Minority Counsel; Dave Rapallo, Minority Staff Director; 

and Rory Sheehan, Minority New Media Press Secretary. 

Staff Present, Committee on the Judiciary: Dan Huff; Counsel; 

John Coleman, Counsel; Zach Somers, Counsel; Sarah Vance, 

Clerk; Heather Sawyer, Minority Counsel; and Veronica Eligan, 

Minority Clerk. 

Mr. JORDAN. The joint committee will come to order. I want to 

thank our witnesses for being here today. 

Senator Grassley, Senator Isakson, we will get to you as quickly 

as we can. You know the routine. You have got to listen to us first. 

2 

We have got some brief opening statements and then we will get 

right to your testimony. 

We have convened this joint hearing to examine the importance 

of whistleblowers to good government. These brave individuals 

shed light on waste, fraud and abuse, often at great personal or 

professional risk and make what we do in Congress a whole lot 

easier. We should always be grateful for the sacrifice these individuals make and proud of their contributions to the Nation. 

Perhaps the most important tools that whistleblowers have are 

the qui tam provisions of the False Claims Act. Senator Grassley, 

who we will hear from shortly, was instrumental in amending the 

False Claims Act in 1986 to ensure whistleblowers are protected. 

This year, of the $4.9 billion of False Claims Act recoveries, $3.3 

billion came from whistleblower suits, a record amount. 

It is within this setting that I am so troubled by the quid pro 

quo between the Department of Justice and the City of St. Paul. 

In 2009, Fredrick Newell filed a whistleblower complaint alleging 

that the City of St. Paul, Minnesota, had fraudulently received millions in Federal dollars. Career DOJ and HUD attorneys investigated his case for almost 3 years. And by November 2011, the 

United States Government was poised to join the case on Mr. Newell’s behalf. These career attorneys told Mr. Newell that the United 

States strongly supports his case and would intervene on his behalf. 

Documents support this impression that the case was strong. In 

a memo from November 2011, the career attorneys wrote, the city 

repeatedly and falsely told HUD and others it was in compliance. 

The city knowingly submitted false claims in order to obtain Federal funds. The career attorneys also wrote, We believe this is a 

particularly egregious example of false certifications given by a city 

that was repeatedly shown what it had to do but repeatedly failed 

to do it. These attorneys recommended the United States intervene 

in the case. 

Then, Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez stepped in and 

executed a quid pro quo with St. Paul to ensure that the United 

States Supreme Court did not consider an unrelated appeal concerning a controversial theory under the Fair Housing Act. 

To prevent the appeal from getting before the court, Perez leveraged Mr. Newell’s whistleblower case. He promised St. Paul that 

the United States would not intervene in the case in exchange for 

St. Paul withdrawing the Supreme Court appeal. Unfortunately, 

Mr. Perez was successful. 

In a closed-door meeting in the St. Paul city hall, he convinced 

the city to agree to the deal. The next week, the Department of 

Justice declined to intervene in Mr. Newell’s case. The following 

day, the city withdrew its Supreme Court appeal. The quid pro quo 

was complete. 

This effectively killed Mr. Newell’s case, as St. Paul was able to 

dismiss the case on grounds that would not have been available if 

the Department of Justice had joined the case. As a result, Federal 

taxpayers lost the chance to recover up to $200 million. In addition, 

residents of St. Paul lost the chance to better their community and 

improve their economic opportunities, the goal Mr. Newell had all 

along. 

3 

More alarming about this quid pro quo is the precedent that this 

case sets for future whistleblowers who bring claims of waste, 

fraud and abuse, only to be thrown under the bus for political purposes. 

I want to applaud Mr. Newell for his courage in appearing here 

today to tell his story and for his work in identifying misspent Federal funds. And I look forward to hearing from all of our witnesses 

in just a few minutes. And with that, I would yield to the ranking 

member, the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Cartwright. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I would like to welcome our witnesses here today, including attorney Shelley Slade, a nationally recognized expert on government 

fraud lawsuits and, in fact, a board member of Taxpayers Against 

Fraud in this country. Ms. Slade will be able to clarify some significant misunderstandings that the majority seems to have about 

these Federal fraud lawsuits, called qui tam lawsuits. 

And I would like to welcome Mr. Newell, who by all accounts is 

an active citizen, committed to advocating for economic opportunities for low-income individuals and businesses. 

The majority has staged today’s hearing to discredit the President’s nominee for Secretary of Labor with baseless accusations of 

fabricated, dubious—— 

Mr. ISSA. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from California. 

Mr. ISSA. I regret to ask the gentleman to either rephrase or take 

down his words. To disparage the reason for this hearing is to disparage the chair. It is well-known that to claim that the intent is 

somehow nefarious and not what the hearing is about is, in fact, 

to disparage the chairman. 

Would the gentleman take down his words. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from New York is recognized. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, to comment on the motivation or the 

purpose of the hearing is well within fair comment and this attempt by the gentleman from California to stop free and fair debate 

is wrong. And the words should not be taken down. They are well 

within fair comment, and the purpose of the hearing is open to 

anyone’s comments, as is anything else about the hearing. 

Mr. ISSA. Does the gentleman insist that our reason for this 

hearing is the nefarious purpose other than, in fact, righting a 

wrong that is perceived by the chair and by many experts? 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman can respond. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Mr. Chairman, the word ‘‘nefarious’’ was not 

used, and the only word that was used was that the attempt is 

being made to discredit the President’s nominee for Secretary of 

Labor, and I feel that is an appropriate comment. 

Mr. ISSA. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from California. 

Mr. ISSA. I would raise the point of order that this investigation 

began 10 months ago and has been endlessly delayed by documents 

requested, not granted, and that ultimately, we reach this point 

only because of a long delay from the time of the action. So, again, 

I would ask that the gentleman recognize the full length of the investigation, the attempts to right this wrong for many months, long 

4 

before a rather obscure member of the Attorney General’s staff, by 

comparison to being a Cabinet appointee, was ever announced. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from New York is recognize. 

Mr. NADLER. What the gentleman from California just said is his 

view. It is subject to debate. It is subject to other people’s views 

and has nothing to do with taking down words and stifling legitimate debate. He is entitled to his view. 

Mr. ISSA. Does the gentleman stand by his words accusing the 

chair of doing this for that purpose? 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. I absolutely do stand by my words, and in fact, 

the timing that the gentleman from California raises is important 

as well because we expect to hear these unsubstantiated allegations repeated tomorrow by Republican Senators at the Senate 

Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee hearing on the 

nomination of Tom Perez as Secretary of Labor. It is unlikely, however, that these Senators will repeat the only true facts that today’s hearing will uncover, that experts say that Mr. Perez acted 

completely appropriately, within ethical boundaries, and in the best 

interest of this country. 

Mr. Newell and his attorney were invited to give a whistleblower’s perspective on DOJ’s decision not to intervene in his False 

Claims Act lawsuit. However, neither Mr. Newell, nor his attorney 

is—— 

Mr. ISSA. Mr. Chairman, since the gentleman has returned to his 

opening statement, I would ask that my motion be withdrawn at 

this time. I will sit through this dialogue, but only under protest. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman’s complaint has been recognized. 

The gentleman may proceed. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Neither Mr. Newell nor his attorney is an expert in the Federal law in which Mr. Newell’s lawsuit is based, and 

more importantly in this case, Mr. Newell is not technically a 

qualifying whistleblower for the lawsuit. Experts we have consulted, including Ms. Shelley Slade, who is one of the preeminent 

False Claims Act litigators in our Nation, has concluded that Mr. 

Newell’s lawsuit brought through the advice of his attorney was 

weak, failed to fulfill statutory requirements, and was susceptible 

from the moment it was filed to dismissal. These are the facts. 

DOJ intervenes in about 25 percent of all false claims lawsuits. 

Mr. Newell’s lawsuit was therefore treated in the same manner as 

a majority of similar lawsuits brought to DOJ. The committee’s investigation has turned up no evidence whatsoever of unethical or 

improper actions by the department. In fact, the majority cannot 

point to a single ethics rule or standard of professional conduct 

that was violated. The department’s decision not to intervene did 

not end the case; rather Mr. Newell was free to pursue his lawsuit 

without the Federal Government, as all qui tam relators are in 

these cases. However, the case was dismissed by a Federal Court 

judge because Mr. Newell failed to meet that statutory requirement 

of a qualifying whistleblower, as I mentioned before. He did not 

have any original independent knowledge of the false claims by the 

City of St. Paul. 

So DOJ’s decision not to intervene was the correct one and was 

supported by senior career officials regarded as the government’s 

5 

preeminent experts in their field and based on the facts of the particular case. The majority takes issue with efforts by DOJ and Tom 

Perez, then Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights and today 

President Obama’s nominee for Secretary of Labor, to preserve the 

concept of disparate impact, an important civil rights enforcement 

tool that helps prevent housing and lending discrimination from a 

potentially adverse Supreme Court ruling in an unrelated legal 

matter. 

Mr. Perez told the committee staff that disparate impact was 

used by DOJ in settling a case involving Countrywide Financial 

that was the largest residential fair lending settlement in the history of the Fair Housing Act. This settlement helped hundreds of 

thousands of victims harmed by widespread practices or patterns 

of discrimination in lending. But this valuable enforcement tool 

faced potential problems in the context of a case, called Magner v. 

Gallagher, which was scheduled to be heard by the U.S. Supreme 

Court. As every lawyer knows, bad facts make bad law, and 

Magner was a strange case with bad facts. That case, landlords of 

low-income housing units, sued the City of St. Paul for alleged aggressive enforcement of housing safety codes to address: ‘‘rodent infestation, missing dead bolt locks, inoperative smoke detectors, 

poor sanitization, and inadequate heat.’’ They claimed that if they 

were forced to fix these very basic problems, they would have to 

close the buildings, causing people to lose housing options. 

I find it hard to believe that anybody intended the Fair Housing 

Act to be used as a shield to prevent landlords from correcting 

housing code violations in their buildings. And I believe it was prudent of the Department of Justice and Tom Perez to be concerned 

that a majority of the Supreme Court might take advantage of the 

irony to deliver a setback to the enforcement of these antidiscrimination laws. 

Working with St. Paul to withdraw the appeal was in the best 

interest of protecting civil rights law and in the best interest of 

DOJ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. Thank the gentleman. 

The chairman of the Constitution Subcommittee of Judiciary, Mr. 

Franks, is recognized. 

Mr. FRANKS. Well, let me begin by thanking the Chairman for allowing the Constitution Subcommittee members to join in today’s 

hearing. We appreciate that very much and I also want to express 

my appreciation for Senator Grassley’s and Senator Isakson’s presence. 

We have called this hearing to examine the quid pro quo between 

the City of St. Paul and Assistant Attorney General Tom Perez; a 

quid pro quo that cost U.S. taxpayers the opportunity to recover 

over $200 million along with being an injustice and a disservice to 

this Nation. This secret deal consisted of the Justice Department’s 

agreeing to decline intervention in Mr. Newell’s false claims case 

against the City of St. Paul in exchange for the City withdrawing 

an appeal from the Supreme Court. 

To paraphrase the maxim that is inscribed on the wall outside 

the Office of the Attorney General of the United States: the government prevails not when it wins its case in court but when justice 

is done. 

6 

Over the years, attorneys within the Justice Department had 

consistently taken the steps necessary to ensure that they live up 

to this maxim. Unfortunately, Assistant Attorney General Tom 

Perez has failed to meet these expectations. Instead, Mr. Perez manipulated the rule of law and pushed the limits of justice to strike 

a deal with the City of St. Paul to block the Supreme Court from 

hearing an appeal that would have placed in jeopardy his division’s 

use of an unjust legal theory. 

This theory, known as disparate impact, has allowed the Civil 

Rights Division to target banks and others for policies that are 

neutral and nondiscriminatory in their intent but may, nonetheless, have a disproportionate impact on certain groups. It was the 

use of this theory that in many ways precipitated the Nation’s foreclosure crisis, as lenders lowered their borrowing criteria to avoid 

disparate impact claims. 

Mr. Perez went out of his way to find leverage to use against the 

City to get it to drop its case before the high court. And after he 

found that leverage, he began personally directing and advising officials at the Department of Housing and Urban Development and 

career attorneys within the DOJ’s Civil Division, and at the U.S. 

Attorneys’ Office in Minnesota to get them to switch their position 

on Mr. Newell’s False Claims Act case. 

Once Mr. Perez achieved this goal, he tried to cover up his secret 

deal by instructing career attorneys to omit any discussion of the 

Supreme Court appeal from their official memo on Mr. Newell’s 

case. He further attempted to cover the deal up by insisting that 

the final deal with the City not be reduced to writing; instead insisting that your ‘‘word was your bond.’’ How sadly ironic that in 

the same breath, Mr. Perez was breaking both his word and his 

bond to uphold justice. 

Assistant Attorney General Perez’ deal, his secret deal will have 

lasting consequences for the Department of Justice, the City of St. 

Paul, and the American taxpayers. In overruling career attorneys 

and ignoring its own internal procedures, the Department weakened the False Claims Act and created a large disincentive for citizens to expose fraud. The City of St. Paul missed a tremendous 

chance to improve the economic opportunities available to the lowand very low-income residents that Mr. Newell championed. American taxpayers lost a strong opportunity to recover over $2 million 

of fraudulently spent funds and justice was ultimately and deliberately denied. 

Mr. Perez’ actions in facilitating and executing this quid pro quo 

with the City of St. Paul represented a fundamental disregard for 

the rule of law. Rather than allowing the Supreme Court to freely 

and impartially adjudicate an appeal that the court had affirmatively chosen to hear, Mr. Perez deliberately worked to get the appeal off the Court’s docket. 

Instead of permitting the normal decisionmaking process to occur 

within the Civil Division, Mr. Perez usurped the process to ensure 

his preferred course of action occurred. That others within the Justice Department and HUD went along with Mr. Perez’ departure 

from the rule of law is also a disgrace. I look forward to the witnesses’ testimony. I hope that it can shed further light on this disturbing chapter. 

7 

Again, I want to thank Senators Grassley and Isakson for taking 

time out of their busy schedules to be with us here today, and I 

would also like to thank our whistleblower witness Fredrick Newell 

for his courage and for taking the time to travel for the second time 

from Minnesota to be part of this investigation. 

Mr. Chairman, I thank you and yield back. 

Mr. ISSA. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the gentleman. 

Mr. ISSA. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. The chairman of the full committee is recognized. 

Mr. ISSA. In support of my earlier motion, I would ask unanimous consent that the letter the committee sent, the Subcommittee 

Chairman Patrick McHenry, sent on February 27, 2012, to Christopher Coleman, the mayor of St. Paul, less than 30 days after dismissal of the case. 

I would also ask unanimous consent that the April 10th 2012 letter, to the Attorney General Eric Holder, again questioning this action in 2012, more than a year ago, be placed in the record. 

Additionally, I would ask that the September 24, 2012, letter to 

the Attorney General, again, questioning this dismissal on legal 

grounds be placed in the record. 

Additionally, I would ask that the letter of March 27th, 2013 to 

Thomas Perez be placed in the record. 

And last, the April 4, 2013, letter jointly signed by myself, and 

Mr. Goodlatte be placed in the record in support of the time and 

effort we have put into this investigation. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, reserving the right to object. Can 

I—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Certainly. 

Mr. NADLER. I have no objection to placing anything the gentleman wants in the record. I was a little confused. You said you 

wanted to place it in support of—I am sorry, you said you wanted 

to place these documents in the record in support of something. In 

support of what? 

Mr. ISSA. The gentleman, the ranking member of the subcommittee has chosen to claim motives related to an impending appointment. These documents clearly show a pattern from almost 

the moment that we became aware of them. 

Mr. NADLER. So, going to the majority’s motive for this hearing, 

in effect. 

Mr. ISSA. Going to the ranking member’s assertion of a motive—— 

Mr. NADLER. Supporting your opposition, supporting the beneficent interpretation of the majority’s motive for this hearing. Right? 

Mr. ISSA. Does the gentleman continue to reserve? 

Mr. NADLER. I am just asking you that. 

Mr. ISSA. The gentleman cast a question for some unknown reason as to the motives for this hearing. These documents clearly 

show that long before anyone could have imagined, first of all, 

President Obama perhaps having a second term, but certainly, the 

fact that he would elevate this individual with this kind of a record 

to be a full Cabinet officer, thus making it very clear that our investigation began in earnest after this quid pro quo, long before 

that time. 

8 

Mr. NADLER. I will—since—since I believe anybody can put anything in the record, I withdraw the objection. 

Mr. JORDAN. Without objection—— 

Mr. ISSA. Thank you. 

Mr. JORDAN. —the documents will be made a part of the record. 

Mr. JORDAN. We now recognize the distinguished Senator from 

the State of Iowa. 

Mr. NADLER. Excuse me. 

Mr. JORDAN. I am sorry, Mr. Nadler. You talked so much, I 

thought you gave your statement. We will let you go now. 

The gentleman from New York is recognized. 

Mr. NADLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, today’s hearing is not about Mr. Newell, or about 

protecting legitimate whistleblowers. It is about Tom Perez, the 

current Assistant Attorney General of the Justice Department Civil 

Rights Division and President Obama’s nominee to be the next Secretary of Labor. 

Tomorrow is the Senate’s markup of Attorney General Perez’ 

nomination. The entire purpose of this hearing is to attack the 

leadership and reputation of one of this Nation’s best public servants, Tom Perez. Of course, the Constitution grants the Senate, not 

the House, the role of providing advice and consent to the President on nominees. Whatever input into that process we might wish 

to have, it should not devolve into the type of partisan attack that 

this hearing represents. 

My Republican colleagues have declared that Assistant Attorney 

General Perez, ‘‘manipulated justice and ignored the rule of law,’’ 

by successfully negotiating an agreement with City of St. Paul, 

Minnesota, to withdraw its appeal to the Supreme Court in Magner 

v. Gallagher. 

But Assistant AG Perez did nothing wrong. On the contrary, he 

acted professionally and appropriately and in full accord with ethical and professional responsibility requirements to advance the 

best interest of the United States. 

The Magner case challenged the use of disparate impact theory 

to enforce the housing laws. Disparate impact theory allows the 

government to challenge policies or practices that are seemingly 

neutral on their face but in practice result in discrimination 

against a protected class. It is a critical tool for weeding out all 

forms of discrimination, whether intentional or not, and ensuring 

equality of opportunity for all. It has long been used by Republican 

and Democratic administrations to attack discriminatory lending, 

employment, and housing practices. 

An adverse ruling from the court in Magner could have eliminated use of this critical civil rights enforcement tool. Assistant AG 

Perez viewed Magner, where landlords of low-income housing were 

making the novel argument that disparate impact theory prevented 

St. Paul from enforcing its housing codes, as an extremely poor factual vehicle for presenting this critical theory to the Supreme 

Court. 

Rightly concerned that bad facts make for bad law, he seized the 

chance to reach an agreement with the city to withdraw Magner 

and avoid the risk of an adverse ruling. There was nothing wrong 

with that. It is what any good lawyer would do and certainly what 

9 

the steward of the Justice Department Civil Rights Division should 

do to safeguard the best interest of the United States. 

My Republican colleagues are unhappy that the court did not get 

the opportunity to eliminate the disparate impact theory. After all, 

they dispute the use of disparate impact, and dislike the robust enforcement of civil rights laws. And they are unquestionably angry 

at Mr. Perez for his role in convincing St. Paul to withdraw its 

Magner appeal. But their complaints and the accusations that they 

have leveled against Assistant AG Perez have no legitimate, legal, 

ethical, or professional responsibility basis. 

In fact, when the City of St. Paul suggested that it would withdraw its Magner appeal if the Civil Division declined to intervene 

in Mr. Newell’s False Claims Act case, Assistant AG Perez sought 

and received guidance from ethics and professional responsibility 

experts who approved such an agreement and his role in negotiating it. This alone debunks any claim of improper conduct. 

Even accepting the Republicans’ characterization of the agreement as a quid pro quo, whereby the city withdrew its appeal ‘‘in 

exchange,’’ for the decision against intervention in Mr. Newell’s 

case, there is nothing unethical or improper with reaching or 

brokering such an agreement; nor did Assistant AG Perez pressure 

career DOJ lawyers into recommending against intervention in Mr. 

Newell’s case or somehow manipulate the Civil Division’s decisionmaking process. 

As the documents and testimony reviewed over the course of the 

committee’s 18-month investigation in this matter confirm, the decision not to intervene in Mr. Newell’s case was made by the Civil 

Division, not Mr. Perez’ division, based on its independent evaluation of the evidence, witnesses, litigation risks, lack of HUD support for intervention, burden on the St. Paul taxpayers, and anticipated withdraw of the city’s Magner appeal. 

At the end of the day, the Justice Department’s top career lawyers disagreed with earlier recommendations of more junior colleagues because they concluded that Mr. Newell did not have a 

strong False Claims Act case on its merits. 

My colleagues are free to disagree with the Civil Division’s final 

decision in Mr. Newell’s case, just as they are free to disagree with 

Assistant AG Perez’ and the Civil Rights Division’s desire to protect the disparate impact theory. But let’s not pretend that these 

disagreements have any legitimate ethical or professional responsibility basis. This is, at best, a policy disagreement; at worst, simply 

partisan politics. 

Senator Harkin recognized this when he canceled the hearing on 

Occupational Health and Safety to which Mr. Newell had been invited to testify. Mr. Newell’s complaints have nothing to do with 

that subject. And Senator Harkin appropriately dismissed that effort as a transparent, ‘‘attack on the President’s nominee for Secretary of Labor,’’ Tom Perez, and refused to allow what he deemed 

as an abuse of process to go forward. 

It is unfortunate that our committee’s majority did not follow 

Senator Harkin’s lead. It is also unfortunate that Mr. Newell has 

been dragged into this partisan fight. His disappointment that the 

United States declined to intervene in his False Claims Act case is 

10 

understandable. But that decision was never Tom Perez’ to make, 

and he did not make it. 

The decision against intervention in the Newell case by the Civil 

Division’s top False Claims Act lawyers was the right choice, as is 

confirmed by the testimony that we will hear from Shelley Slade 

today, as well as by the letters that we have received from other 

career False Claims Act lawyers, who similarly view Mr. Newell’s 

case as a weak candidate for government intervention. 

I would ask unanimous consent to have the letters that we received made a part of record of this hearing. 

Mr. JORDAN. Without objection. 

Mr. NADLER. Thank you. 

Assistant Attorney General Perez has done a tremendous job 

leading the Civil Rights Division and it is long past time to end 

this smear campaign against him. We should all be thankful for his 

services and look forward to his stewardship as Secretary of Labor. 

We do not serve the public interest by holding this hearing as 

part of a shameful smear campaign against Mr. Perez. 

With that, I yield back the balance of my time. 

Mr. JORDAN. Thank the gentleman for his statement. 

Distinguished Senator from Iowa is recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, A UNITED 

STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA 

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you for inviting me to testify. It is important to examine the impact of the deal between the Justice Department—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Senator, just pull that real close so that we can all 

hear you. There you go. Great. Thank you. 

Senator GRASSLEY. —to examine the issue between the Justice 

Department and the City of St. Paul and the impact that that has 

had on the whistleblower Fredrick Newell. I come to hearings like 

this not just to testify on the issue, but I want to encourage whistleblowing. I want to encourage the protection of whistleblowers. 

And I want to encourage use of qui tam-type lawsuits building 

upon the success of that act that we got passed and updated in 

1986. 

The qui tam action that we included in the updated law allows 

individual whistleblowers to represent the Federal Government in 

certain cases and recover a share of the proceeds. When courts 

across the country narrowed the False Claims Act, I worked with 

Chairman Leahy to author legislation that overturned years of 

court decisions that watered down the False Claims Act of 1986. 

One of our fixes has an important relevance to today’s hearing. 

Before 2010, the Supreme Court said that private citizens do not 

get rewarded unless the original source information is the basis of 

the settlement or verdict. Our provision to fix the public disclosure 

bar made it clear that Congress disapproved of this broad interpretation made by the courts. Instead of allowing organizations and 

individuals to string along whistleblowers, only to kick them off the 

case at the very end, the provision required the Justice Department 

file a timely motion to dismiss claims that violate the public disclosure bar. 

11 

Tom Perez committed the Justice Department to assist the city 

in getting Fredrick Newell’s qui tam action dismissed on public disclosure barred grounds in exchange for dismissing a nonrelated Supreme Court case to further his own favored legal theory. 

In doing so, Mr. Perez circumvented Congress’ legislative intent 

in reforming the law to help whistleblowers like Mr. Newell. In the 

process, Mr. Perez made it impossible that Mr. Newell would succeed in his suit to recover money for the United States. We are 

talking about not just a few million but hundreds of millions of dollars. 

The result is that the department has demonstrated to future qui 

tam whistleblowers that they might be helped, but only if a defendant doesn’t have something else the department wants in exchange. 

Senate-confirmed appointees testified before the Judiciary Committee that they support False Claims Act and that they would 

work with whistleblowers to make sure that cases received consideration and assistance from the Justice Department. It seems clear 

that the department did the exact opposite in Mr. Newell’s case. 

Consequently, the False Claims Act and whistleblowers everywhere 

might suffer. 

In this case, the department took the authority granted to them 

under the law and rather than using it to secure those millions of 

dollars for taxpayers, they used it for leverage. They took the leverage and struck a deal to throw out the case that the career lawyers, and I want to mention, career lawyers in the department considered very strong. And along with it, they threw out the ability 

to recover a potential hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers’ 

money. And in the process, the sad thing is, they left Mr. Newell, 

the whistleblower, twisting in the wind. 

There are a couple of points about this deal to emphasize. First, 

even though the department traded away Mr. Newell’s case, Mr. 

Perez has defended his actions, in part, by claiming that Mr. Newell still had his, ‘‘day in court.’’ 

What Mr. Perez omits from his story is that Mr. Newell’s case 

was dismissed precisely because the United States was not a party. 

After the United States declined to join the case, the judge dismissed Mr. Newell’s case based upon the public disclosure bar, 

finding he was not, ‘‘the original source of information to the government.’’ 

I will remind you, preventing an outcome like this, is exactly why 

we amended the law as Chairman Leahy and I did. Specifically, 

those amendments made clear that the original source defense is 

not available when the United States joins the action. That is the 

whole point. That is why it was so important for the City of St. 

Paul to make sure that the United States did not join the case. 

That is why the city was willing to trade away a strong case before 

the Supreme Court. The city knew that if the United States joined 

the action, the case would go forward. Conversely, the city knew if 

the United States did not join the case, it would likely get dismissed. 

Now, think about that a while. The department trades away a 

case worth millions of taxpayers’ dollars. They did it precisely because of the impact the decision would have on the litigation. They 

knew, as a result of their decision, the whistleblower would get disVerDate Aug 31 2005 10:40 Jun 13, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00017 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\81282.TXT APRIL
12 

missed based upon original source grounds. And yet, when Congress starts asking questions, they have the guts to say, ‘‘We didn’t 

do anything improper because Mr. Newell still had his day in 

court.’’ 

The second point has to do with the strength of the case. 

Throughout the investigation the department has tried to defend 

Mr. Perez’ actions by claiming the case was marginal, or weak. The 

documents, however, tell an entirely different story. Before Mr. 

Perez got involved, the career attorneys at the department wrote 

a memo recommending intervention in the case. In that memo, 

they described St. Paul’s actions as, ‘‘A particularly egregious example of false certification.’’ In fact, the career lawyers in Minnesota felt so strongly about the case that they took the unusual 

step of flying to Washington, D.C., to meet with HUD officials. And 

HUD, of course, agreed that the United States should intervene. Of 

course, that was before Mr. Perez got involved. 

The documents made clear that career lawyers considered it a 

strong case, but the department has claimed that Mike Hertz, the 

department’s expert on False Claims Act, considered it a weak 

case. 

In fact, 2 weeks ago, Mr. Perez testified before my colleagues on 

the Senate Health Committee that Mr. Hertz, ‘‘Had a very immediate and visceral reaction that it was a weak case.’’ 

The documents now tell a far different story. Mr. Hertz knew 

about the case in November 2011. Two months later, a department 

official took notes of the meeting where the quid pro quo was discussed. That official wrote down Mr. Hertz’ reaction. She wrote, 

‘‘Mike, odd. Looks like buying off St. Paul. Should be whether there 

are legit reasons to decline as in past practice.’’ Sounds like a very 

devoted lawyer working for the taxpayers. That is my editorial. 

The next day the same official emailed the Associate Attorney 

General and said, ‘‘Mike Hertz brought up the St. Paul disparate 

impact case in which the Solicitor General just filed an amicus 

brief in the Supreme Court. He is concerned about the recommendations that we declined to intervene in two qui tam cases 

against St. Paul,’’ end of email to the Associate Attorney General. 

Now, these documents appear to show that Mr. Hertz’ primary 

concern was not the strength of the case, as Mr. Perez led my Senate colleagues to believe. Mr. Hertz was concerned that the quid 

pro quo Mr. Perez ultimately arranged was improper. Again, in his 

words, it, ‘‘Looks like buying off St. Paul.’’ 

And we have a document that just came to our attention last 

night. The Justice Department sent my staff a critical 33-page slide 

show about the department’s case against St. Paul. In this document, the career lawyers make their case for intervention. The department failed to provide this document to the committee, and we 

all warned about it in recent interviews with HUD employees, getting such critical documents so late in this investigation could be 

construed as a coverup. I expect any remaining documents will be 

immediately forthcoming. 

The department’s actions and specifically those of Mr. Perez in 

orchestrating this deal are to the detriment of the American taxpayers, the whistleblowers, and the department. Ironically, the 

Justice Department and the Obama administration are currently 

13 

engaged in waging the war on whistleblowers in the Federal courts 

across the country, most notably a case pending before the Federal 

courts titled Berry v. Conyers. 

While unrelated to this matter, we all need to keep an eye on 

this case as it could effectively end protecting whistleblowers in the 

Federal Government. I thank Mr. Newell for having the fortitude 

to come forward as a whistleblower and to keep fighting after the 

Justice Department hung him out to dry. He should be praised for 

being here today, and if we do anything short of that, we are going 

to discourage further whistleblowers from coming forth. And we 

can do the best job of oversight we can in the Congress of the 

United States, every one of us. If all 535 of us are involved, there 

is no way we can know where the bones are buried. We have got 

to rely upon people that are there where the fraud is being done. 

And we have got to encourage them. If we don’t, we are never 

going to stop all of this fraudulent activity. 

I yield the floor. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Grassley follows:] 

14 


Insert offset folio 1 here 81282.001

Prepared Statement of Senator Chuck Grassley 

Ranking Member, United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary 

Hearing Before the House Committee on Oversight and Govemment Refonn 

Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Job Creation & Regulatory Affairs and the Committee on 

the Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil Justice 

"DOl's Quid Pro Quo with St. Paul: A Whistleblower's Perspective" 

Tuesday, May 7, 2013 

Thank you for inviting me here today to testifY. It's important to examine the impact the deal 

between the Justice Department and City of St. Paul, Minnesota has had on the whistleblower in 

that case, Fredrick Newell. 

One of the most important lessons I have learned is that an individual member of Congress can 

make a huge difference through oversight. 

I realized early on that uncovering and eliminating fraud in government programs could save the 

federal govemment billions of dollars. One of my early investigations revealed how the 

Department of Defense was spending $700 on toilet seats. 

Of course, while individual members can make a difference, the federal government is simply 

too big to oversee without help. 

In order to find reinforcements, I turned to a simple and well-tested law: the False Claims Act. 

Also known as "Lincoln's Law," the False Claims Act was adopted during the Civil War as a 

way to leverage private citizens in the fight against fraud. 

Unfortunately, the False Claims Act was weakened by Congress following World War II. In an 

effort to give the law real teeth again, I joined Congressman Howard Bennan and introduced the 

False Claims Amendments Act of 1986. 

One of the key provisions included allowing "qui tam" lawsuits. Qui tam actions allow 

individual whistleblowers to represent the federal government in certain cases and recover a 

share of the proceeds. 

These changes were adopted by Congress and quickly signed into law by President Reagan. 

Since my amendments were signed into law, the federal government has recovered more than 

$40 billion. 

Taxpayers owe whistleblowers a debt of gratitude for sticking their necks out. They stand up 

and speak out when things are wrong. 

When courts across the country narrowed the False Claims Act I worked with Senator Leahy, to 

author legislation that overturned years of court decisions that watered down the False Claims 

Act. 
15 


Insert offset folio 2 here 81282.002

I also worked with Chairman Leahy to craft a provision that fixed a problem with a part of the 

False Claims Act known as the "public disclosure bar." 

Under the public disclosure bar, private citizens can't file a qui tam action if it is based only on 

facts that the federal government has publicly disclosed, such as in an official government 

report. 

However, if the qui tam suit is based at least in part on the private citizen's independent 

information, then he can proceed as an "original source." 

Before 2010, the Supreme Court said that private citizens do not get rewarded unless the original 

source infonnation is the basis of the settlement or court verdict. But oftentimes the Justice 

Depmtment begins a case using original source information and in the end uses only publicly 

available information to settle or try the case. Thus, the Court created a disincentive for 

whistleblowers to come forward with new information. They would get none of the reward, but 

still face the probability of retaliation. 

My provision made it clear that Congress disapproved of this broad interpretation. Instead of 

allowing organizations and individuals to string along whistleblowers only to kick them off the 

case at the very end, the provision required that the Justice Depmment file a timely motion to 

dismiss claims that violate the public disclosure bar. 

This amendment was designed to have the Justice Department help whistleblowers in their suits, 

not hurt them. In fact, I included input from the Department when we drafted it. 

That's what the FCA is truly about: protecting the whistleblower. It's not about protecting 

certain defendants. Nowhere does the False Claims Act distinguish between public defendants, 

such as city governments, and private defendants, such as companies. 

It cannot be correct that cities get a pass on ripping off federal taxpayers simply because they are 

funded by municipal taxpayers. 

Yet, our investigation into the quid pro quo found that DepaJtrnent officials apparently set a 

different standard for the City than for a private company. If this new standard becomes 

precedent, it seems likcly that more and more cities will find it easier to defraud the federal 

government. 

And that is not the only reason this quid pro quo is harmful to the goals of the False Claims Act. 

Tom Perez committed the Justice DepaJtrnent to assist the City in getting Fredrick Newell's qui 

tam action dismissed on public disclosure bar grounds-in exchange for dismissing an unrelated 

Supreme Court case to further his own favored legal theory. 

In doing so, Mr. Perez circumvented Congress's legislative intent in refonning the law to help 

whistleblowers like Mr. Newell. In the process, Mr. Perez made it nearly impossible that Mr. 

Newell would succeed in his suit to recover money for the United States. The result is that the 

Department has demonstrated to future qui tam whistleblowers that they might be helped, but 

only if a defendant doesn't have something else the Department wants in exchange. 
16 


Insert offset folio 3 here 81282.003

The actions of the Justice Department in throwing Mr. Newell aside are particularly upsetting in 

light of questions I asked high level Depmtment employees at their confirmation. 

Senate-confirmed appointees testified before the Judiciary Committee that they supported the 

False Claims Act and that they would work with whistleblowers to make sure their cases 

received consideration and assistance from the Justice Department. It seems clear that the 

Department did the exact opposite in Mr. Newell's case, and the False Claims Act and 

whistleblowers everywhere will suffer. 

In this case, the Department took the authority granted to them under the law, and rather than 

using it to secure millions of dollars for the taxpaycr, they used it as leverage. 

They took that leverage and struck a deal to throw out a case that the career lawyers in the 

Department considered very strong. And along with it, they threw out the ability to recover 

potentially hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars. 

And in the process, they left Mr. Newell, the whistleblower, twisting in the wind. 

There are a couple of points about this deal to emphasize. 

First, even though the Department traded away Mr. Newell's case, Mr. Perez has defended his 

actions, in part, by claiming that Mr. Newell still had his "day in court." 

What Mr. Perez omits from his story is that Mr. Newell's case was dismissed precisely because 

the United States was not a party. 

After the U.S. declined to join the case, the judge dismissed Mr. Newell's case based on the 

"public disclosure bar," finding he was not the "original source" of information to the 

government. 

I'll remind you, preventing an outcome like this is exactly why we mnended the law. 

Specifically, those mnendments made clear that the Justice Department can contest the "original 

source" dismissal, even if it fails to intervene. So, the Department chose to leave Mr. Newell all 

alone in his case. 

That was the whole point. 

That is why it was so important for the City of St. Paul to make sure that the United States did 

not join the case. 

That is why the City was willing to trade away a strong case before the Supreme Court. 

The City knew that if the United States joined the action, the case would almost certainly go 

forward. Conversely, the City knew if the United States did not join the case, and chose not to 

contest the original source, it would likely get dismissed. 

Now think about that. 

The Department trades away a case worth millions of taxpayer dollars. They did it precisely 

because of the impact the decision would have on the litigation. 
17 


Insert offset folio 4 here 81282.004

They knew that as a result of their decision, the whistleblower would get dismissed based on 

"original source" grounds, since they didn't contest it. 

And yet, when Congress starts asking questions, they have the guts to say: 'we didn't do 

anything improper because Mr. Newell still had his day in court.' 

The second point has to do with the stren,brth of the case. Throughout our investigation, the 

Department has tried to defend Mr. Perez's actions by claiming the case was "marginal" or 

"weak." 

The documents, however, tell a far different story. 

Before Mr. Perez got involved, the career lawyers at the Department wrote a Memo 

recommending intervention in the case. In that memo, they described St. Paul's actions as, "a 

particularlv egregious example of false certifications." 

In fact, the career lawyers in Minnesota felt so strongly about the case that they took the unusual 

step of flying to Washington, D.C. to meet with HUD officials. 

And HUD, of course, agreed that the United States should intervene. 

That was before Mr. Perez got involved. 

The documents make clear that career lawyers considered it a strong case. But, the Department 

has claimed that Mike Hertz the Department's expert on the False Claims Act considered it a 

weak case. 

In fact, two weeks ago Mr. Perez testified before my colleagues on the Senate HELP Committee 

that Mr. Hertz "had a very immediate and visceral reaction that it was a weak case." 

The documents tell a far different story. Mr. Hertz knew about the case in November of2011. 

Two months later, a Department official took notes of a meeting where the quid pro quo was 

discussed. That official wrote down Mr. Hertz's reaction: She wrote: 

"Mike - Odd - Looks like buying off St. Paul. Should be whether there are legit 

reasons to decline as to past practice." 

The next day, that same official emailed the Associate Attorney General, and said: 

"Mike Hertz brought up the St. Paul "disparate impact" case iu which the SG just 

filed an amicus brief in the Supreme Court. He's concerned about the 

recommendation that we decline to intervene in two qui tam cases against St. Paul." 

These documents appear to show that Mr. Hertz's primary concern was NOT the strength of the 

case, as Mr. Perez led my Senate colleagues to believe. Mr. Hertz was concerned that the quid 

pro quo Mr. Perez ultimately arranged was improper. Again, in his words, it "looks like buying 

offSt. Paul." 
18 


Insert offset folio 5 here 81282.005

And, just last night the Justice Department sent my staff a critical 33 page slide show about the 

Department's case against St. Pau!' In this document, the career lawyers make their case for 

intervention. The Department failed to provide this document to the committees, and we only 

learned about it in a recent interview with a HUD employee. Getting such a critical document so 

late in this investigation could be construed as a cover up. I expect any remaining documents 

will be immediately forthcoming. 

The Department's actions-and specifically those of Mr. Perez in orchestrating this deal-are to 

the detriment of the American taxpayers, whistleblowers, and the Department. 

Ironically, the Justice Department and the Obama administration are currently engaged in 

waging the war on whistleblowers in federal courts across the country-most notably in a case 

pending before the Federal Circuit titled Berry v. Conyers. 

While unrelated to this matter, we all need to keep an eye on that case as it could effectively end 

protected whistleblowing in the federal government. 

I thank Mr. Newell for having the fortitude to come forward as a whistleblower, and to keep 

fighting after the Justice Department hung him out to dry. 

He should be praised for being here today. 

Thank you. 
19 

Mr. JORDAN. I want to thank the Senator for his testimony. 

And I understand that Senator Grassley has to leave. 

And Senator Isakson, you are recognized for your 5 minutes more 

or less. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JOHNNY ISAKSON, A UNITED 

STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF GEORGIA 

Senator ISAKSON. Chairman Jordan, Chairman Franks, Ranking 

Member Cartwright, Ranking Member Nadler, thank you for the 

invitation to introduce Fredrick Newell today, and thank you for 

letting me return to my roots in the U.S. House, and thank you for 

giving me the opportunity to publicly acknowledge the great work 

of my cohort, Senator Grassley, who is an outstanding Senator in 

many ways, but particularly on the whistleblower statute and enforcement of the standards of the United States of America. 

This is a very serious situation which we are about to discuss, 

and it is very important that both sides of the story be told. Two 

weeks ago, the Senate Subcommittee on Employment and Workplace Safety, of which I am the ranking member, was to hold a 

hearing on OSHA’s whistleblower protection statute. 

Following on the heels of Thomas Perez’ hearing before the committee, I solicited Fredrick Newell to be my witness at that hearing, since we were discussing the 22 whistleblower statutes within 

the Department of Occupational Safety and Health Administration, 

of obviously germane testimony. I felt it was important that we 

know what involvement Mr. Perez may have had in the St. Paul 

case, but more importantly, that we heard both sides of the story. 

I appreciate the willingness of both of these committees to reach 

out to Mr. Newell and provide him the opportunity, which was 

taken away from him by the chairman of the committee in the Senate when they pulled our ability to have that hearing and Mr. 

Newell’s testimony. 

Mr. Newell courageously comes before the committee hearing 

today as a vital community leader and a blessed family man. Mr. 

Newell was born in Hazlehurst, Mississippi, the ninth of 16 children. After high school graduation, he joined the United States 

Navy and served as an intelligence specialist and a photographer. 

Mr. Newell wears many hats. He is currently the pastor of True 

Spirit Ministries in St. Paul, Minnesota. Mr. Newell, he served in 

the ministry since 1986, at which time he has occupied positions 

which included deacon, Bible teacher, and assistant pastor. In addition to his pastoral work, Mr. Newell is also a part owner of three 

construction companies in St. Paul, Minnesota. 

One of these companies, Newell Abatement Services, was awarded honors as runner-up in the Twin Cities Small Business of the 

Year and also the Frogtown Small Business of the Year in 1998. 

Mr. Newell has provided the construction training for over 50 individuals from low-income backgrounds, through his communities 

and became a catalyst for the U.S. Department of Housing and 

Urban Development to force St. Paul to implement its first ever 

Section 3 program. As if he is not busy enough, Mr. Newell is also 

the President of Access Group, a nonprofit organization created to 

empower low-income individuals through awareness of community 

engagement. 

20 

Mr. Newell is a nationally recognized Section 3 advocate and has 

participated in various national forums on the issue. As I said, he 

has been married for 28 years and has raised 5 children. I thank 

him for making the journey to Washington today to give his testimony. I thank him for having the courage to blow the whistle. As 

Senator Grassley said, we will never be able to get to the bottom 

of many issues as a Congress if our citizens are not willing to tell 

us what they know. It takes a certain sense of civic responsibility 

and moral courage to do what he did. 

Mr. Newell, I again thank you for your willingness to testify. I 

look forward to the hearing and hearing what you have to say. And 

again, I want to thank Chairman Jordan and Chairman Franks for 

having the courage to call this hearing today so that all of the facts 

can come out. 

Mr. JORDAN. I want to thank you, Senator, for your testimony 

and for your hard work on this issue and for pointing out the important fact that the hearing last week was canceled solely because 

Mr. Newell was invited to give testimony. We appreciate that. 

And I will now get ready for our second panel. 

Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from Michigan is recognized. 

Mr. CONYERS. Thank you very much. Could I put my statement 

in the record? I am honored to have been invited here to be in the 

hearing room, and—— 

Mr. JORDAN. The former chairman of the Judiciary Committee is 

more than welcome to have his statement entered into the record. 

So, without objection, the statement is entered. 

Mr. CONYERS. Thank you. 

Mr. CONNOLLY. Mr. Chairman, I would also ask unanimous consent to insert in the record my statement. 

Mr. JORDAN. Without objection. 

Mr. CONNOLLY. I thank the chair. 

Mr. JORDAN. I will now recognize the second panel. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. Yes. The gentleman from New York. 

Mr. NADLER. A point of order, a point of inquiry, I am not sure 

which. I thought the next panel was supposed to have Mr. Newell 

and Ms. Slade together. 

Mr. JORDAN. It is my understanding there are three panels, and 

Ms. Slade is on the third panel. 

Mr. NADLER. Is there a Memorandum of Understanding among 

the committees on this subject? 

Mr. JORDAN. My understanding is that staff—— 

Mr. NADLER. What? 

Mr. JORDAN. My understanding is that the staff had worked that 

out. We have done this several times in this committee, may not 

be the practice in Judiciary Committee, but we have done this several times where we have had the—— 

Mr. NADLER. The rules require that there be such a Memorandum of Understanding. Is there one? 

The House Judiciary Committee rules require that there be a 

Memorandum of Understanding when there is a joint committee 

hearing precisely to work out questions like this. 

21 

And it was our understanding that this panel would have both 

Mr. Newell and Ms. Slade. I really think they should be together. 

Mr. JORDAN. Well, obviously, we think different. 

And I will just let the gentleman know that this committee, the 

Oversight Subcommittee, has set several hearings, frankly, in the 

last few weeks. Mr. Cartwright can attest to this—where we have 

had several panels, not all witnesses, minority witnesses, were on 

the first panel; sometimes they were only on the second panel. This 

is not unprecedented at all for this committee. My understanding 

is you have had 10 days notice of how this hearing was going to 

be conducted. 

Mr. NADLER. I will simply say that I am glad to hear that the 

Oversight Committee operates that way. This is a joint hearing of 

two committees. The rules of one of them, the Judiciary Committee, 

require that there be a Memorandum of Understanding, and that 

this kind of question be in that memorandum. My understanding 

is that—my understanding as of this moment is that, in effect, the 

rules of the Judiciary Committee are being violated by the absence 

of such a Memorandum of Understanding. 

Second, we had understood, it had been our information that 

there be one panel. I just think in the interest of efficiency. I have 

no particular reason beyond that. 

Mr. JORDAN. If you have no particular reason beyond that, you 

are making an awful big deal about it. 

Mr. NADLER. Well, I do think the rules should be followed, but 

I am wiling to withdraw any objection at this time. 

Mr. JORDAN. I think the rules should be followed, too, and this 

is the precedent of this committee. 

The second panel is about the whistleblower. It is about Mr. 

Newell, and that is why he is on the second panel. 

There will be a third panel. Ms. Slade will be recognized at that 

time, and I will stay as long as we have to stay. We will take as 

many questions as Mr. Nadler may have. 

With that, we will—I will swear in our second panel. Mr. 

Fredrick Newell is a small business owner and minister from St. 

Paul, Minnesota and is a whistleblower in the False Claims Act 

against the City of St. Paul. Pursuant to committee rules, all witnesses will be sworn in before they testify. Please raise, if you 

would, Mr. Newell stand and raise your right hand. 

[Witness sworn.] 

Mr. JORDAN. Let the record show that the witness answered in 

the affirmative. 

Mr. Newell, we are going to take your testimony, and then we 

will swear in Mr. DeVinke here in a second. 

So you are recognized for 5 minutes more or less, and we have 

been pretty generous as you saw from the Senators’ statements. 

But you have got approximately 5 minutes. There is a lighting system there. Just pull that microphone close and the floor is yours. 

STATEMENTS OF FREDRICK NEWELL, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA, 

ACCOMPANIED BY THOMAS DEVINCKE, MALKERSON GUNN 

MARTIN LLP 

Mr. NEWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

22 

I do have a prepared statement. I do want to first and foremost 

thank God for this opportunity, and I do count it as an opportunity. 

And then, as it is proper and customary, I want to thank the congressional committee for this opportunity to present before you as 

Representatives of our great Nation facts and concerns that have 

brought each of us to this occasion. 

I also want to thank my attorney here, Mr. Thomas DeVincke, 

who is to my left, though has yet to be introduced. He has been 

with me for over 8 years in this matter. But yet, in other words, 

since 2005, but if the truth be told, he is yet to even receive any 

compensation for his actions. 

I am here today to bring light to my actions and intent to work 

for over 13 years to create opportunities for the minority and lowincome community in St. Paul and count this once again as an opportunity to that end. 

I will be making constant reference in my testimony to a HUD 

program called Section 3. Section 3 is a Federally mandated HUD 

program that was created to address the national ills facing this 

Nation in 1968. The facts of that day were highlighted by the 

Kerner Commission, formed by President Lyndon Johnson. The 

Kerner Report concluded that this Nation was moving toward two 

societies, one black, one white, separate and unequal. His finding 

was that the riots of 1968 resulted from the black community’s 

frustration at a lack of economic opportunities. The report urged 

legislation to promote racial integration and to enrich slums, primarily through the creation of jobs, job training programs, and decent housing. 

To mark the 13th anniversary of the Kerner Report, the Eisenhower Foundation sponsored two complementary reports, ‘‘The Millennium Breach’’ and ‘‘Locked in the Poor House.’’ ‘‘The Millennium 

Breach,’’ co-opted by former Senator and Commissioner member 

Fred Harris, Fred R. Harris, found the racial divide had grown in 

the subsequent years within the city, unemployment at crisis level. 

‘‘The Millennium Breach’’ found that most of the decade that followed the Kerner Report America made progress on the principal 

fronts the report dealt with, race, poverty and inner cities. Then 

progress stopped and in some ways reversed by a series of economic shocks, and trends, and the government’s actions—and the 

government’s actions and inactions. 

Harris reported to date, 30 years after the Kerner Report, there 

is more poverty in America. It is deeper, blacker, and browner than 

before. And there is more concentrated in the cities, which have become America’s poor houses. From the Kerner Report, the Section 

3 legislation, 24 CFR part 135 was passed by Congress in 1968. 

The result in Section 3 program was established to ensure that 

contracting, training, and employment opportunities were provided 

to low- and very low-income individuals and communities where 

HUD funds were expended. 

One of the issues here today must be the intent or the intended 

outcome of Section 3. That intended outcome is employment. It is 

training and contracting opportunities for the communities in this 

country where those Federal funds are being spent. Basically, Section 3 epitomizes the essence of fair trade by requiring that the 

23 

community, that the local community benefit from the opportunities in their community. 

Let us be clear, Section 3 focuses on these three things, employment, training, contracting, for the low-income community. 

Section 3 is a race-neutral program that takes into account that 

the Federal Government is spending money in these impoverished 

areas and seeks to use those funds to create those opportunities 

that I have mentioned for the residents of those areas. Those aren’t 

just the inner cities. HUD funds are also expended in remote areas 

such as the Appalachian Mountains. HUD funds are spent in Wyoming, in Idaho, any State or city where poverty or divestment has 

occurred. 

Section 3 is not a new tool but a critical tool for the low-income 

community. The same principles were seen in the Work Progress, 

or Project Program, as some called it, or the Works Project Administration of the 1930s, and 1940s. 

As noted in a 2011 Section 3 report by the American University 

School of Public Affairs, entitled ‘‘Section 3 Regulation As Policy,’’ 

the merits—that report states, The merits of Section 3 are compelling, as they aim to provide preference to low- and very low-income 

persons and businesses as a means to promote self-sufficiency 

among this constituency and correct for an unlevel playing field in 

the labor market. 

However, through its nearly 43 years, it has encountered a number of barriers to successful implementation, including challenges 

in collecting accurate and useful data from HUD funding recipients, confusion, or lack of awareness on the part of the funding recipients and the intended beneficiaries, and a lack of training to 

qualify low and very low income people for the Section 3 opportunities. 

It is from this aim that I spent over 13 years of my life pursuing 

opportunities for the low-income community, both for St. Paul and 

nationally. 

So, as you hear the term ‘‘Section 3,’’ please think of the true 

issues, employment, training, and contracting opportunities for people who really want and need them just like in 1968. 

Mr. NEWELL. Now I have elected to use the remainder of my time 

to read into the record a letter that I had written or drafted back 

in January of this year. This letter was and is addressed to Attorney General Holder and Secretary Donovan. I had proposed and intended to send this out back in January, but, unfortunately, my attorneys felt it best that I did not. 

Mr. JORDAN. Mr. Newell? 

Mr. NEWELL. Yes. 

Mr. JORDAN. We may just have you enter that—we can enter 

that letter into the record instead of having you read that, if that’s 

okay. 

Mr. NEWELL. That is fine. 

Mr. JORDAN. Okay. Thank you for your testimony. 

[Prepared statement of Mr. Newell follows:] 

24 


Insert offset folio 6 here 81282.006

The Honorable Shaun Donovan 

Secretary 

Fredrick Newell 

2040 9th Avenue #314 

North St. Paul,:YIN 55109 

January 31, 20! 3 

The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

Attorney General 

U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development 

451 7'h Street, S W 

U.S. Department of Justice 

Washington, DC 20530 

Washington, DC 20410 

Sirs, .... !; 

My name is Fredrick Newell and I am writing to each of you in as much as you are heads of 

federal agencies of which I have become all too familiar within the past four years. The 

experience of those years are a typecast of the 45 years of broken promises and rejection 

experienced by the Section 3 community of this country. 

i am the relatorlwhistleblower of the Section 3 False Claim Act lawsuit, United States ex reI. 

Newell v. City of St. Paul (''Newell''), that was used by HUD and DOJ to leverage a "global 

resolution" as so characterized by Tracy Schmaler, Justice Department spokeswoman. 

I write this letter in hopes of bringing to your attention the discriminatory effects of the actions of 

the Department of Justice and Department of Housing and Urban Development on the Section 3 

community and on me. These actions were dubbed the "Quid Pro Quo" by tbe US C;:ongressional 

Judiciary Committee and the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. I, through this 

letter, hope to confer upon you the importance of the Section 3 efforts that were sacrificed and the 

need for corrective actions on your respective parts. 

Ironically, the Section 3 community has been subjected to discriminatory effects in the name of 

promulgating disparate impact regulations. 

The Section 3 community of St. Paul has been fighting to secure opportunities afforded by the 

federal regulations 24 CFR Part J 35, a.k.a. Section 3, for over 30 years. My effoits to secure 

Section 3 opportunities began in the year 2000. As a construction contractor, I helped to train 

over 50 individuals in the variolls phases of hazardous waste remediation in hopes of providing 

oPPOliunities for employment. I approached the City of St. Paul regarding contracting 

opportunities and was told that the City was not taking on any Ilew contractors. r tried for over 

five years to get the City to implement Section 3 to no avail. 

In 2006, I filed a Section 3 lawsuit against the City in federal court, alleging non-compliance with 

the Section 3 statue and regulations. The case was dismissed on terms of "no private right of 

action". 

{156327.00c- 5/512013j 
25 


Insert offset folio 7 here 81282.007

In 2008, I brought a series of administrative complaints to HUD alleging violation of Section 3 by 

Saint Paul. In 2009, based on evidence that I filed, HUD issued a finding of noncompliance 

against the Saint Paul substantiating each allegation I had made. In 2010, HUD negotiated a 

voluntary compliance agreement (or "VCA") with Saint Paul. _During the VCA process, HUD 

neglected to provid~ any relief for me and very little relief for the Section 3 community, over my 

objections and subsequent appeal. 

Between 2010 and 2011, HUD and DOJ, citing interference with the FCAsettiement 

negotiations, requested that I cease further efforts to work with the City of St Paul, despite 

evidence that the City of St Paul remained in nOll-compliance with the VCA and the Section 3 

regulations. 

HUD and DOJ constantly represented tbat I wou ld be made whole through the settlement of my 

false claim lawsuit 

I write this letter at a time when information has come to light, tbrough congressional inquiries, 

supporting the allegation that key individuals in your agencies have chosen to leverage my yeaTS 

of Section 3 advocacy in St. Pall I, to secure protection for the disparate impact theory. 

According to the statement from Tracy SchmaleI', my FCA lawsuit was leveraged to achieve a 

global resolution of which I was not allowed to participate OT benefit, thus negating the inference 

of it being a "global resolution". 

According to information obtained from the on-going investigation of the Judiciary Committee 

and the OveTsight Committee, the purpose of tile global resolution was to induce the City ofSt. 

Paul into withdrawing the Magner v. Gallagher case from the United States Supreme Court 

docket Additionally, the City ofSt. Paul has admitted that DOJ and HUD agreed to reverse its 

support for my false claim act lawsuit "Newell" based on the terms of a global resolution (Qu id 

Pro Quo). 

According to the terms of the QU,id Pro Quo, the City ofSt Paul withdrew the Magner v. 

Gallaghet' case from the Supreme COllrtdocket; on or about February 9, 2012, DOJ notified me of 

its intention to declineintervelition in the FCA case; DOJ and HUD accomplished its goal to 

protect the disparate impact theory and the US government was able to hold numerous mortgage 

lenders accountable under the disparate impact theOlY resulting in the well publicized mortgage 

settlements. 

According to information from' the congressional inquiries, DOJ and HUD appear to have 

provided the City with information and/or assistance in defeating my false claim lawsuit, United 

States ex reI. Newell v. City of st. Paul. 

Accordingly, DOJ and HUD accomplished its goal to protect the disparate impact theory and 

successfully negotiated settlements worth tens of billions of dollars with the banks. The City of 

St. Paul has for the time being avoided the consequences of its fraudulent actions - and potential 

liability of over $200M. The Section J community and 1, as the whistleblower, received no 

recovery through the False Claim Act lawsuit or restitution from the voluntlllY compliance 

agreement Further, I have received no acknowledgement or due process regarding the 

outstanding Section 3 appeals and complaints since 20 I O. 

I imagine there are a number of times where such decisions or practices are common and deemed 

"for the greater good". Ironically, !-IUD and DOJ have caused the very effects that the disparate 

{156327.DOC- 5/5/20n} 2 
26 


Insert offset folio 8 here 81282.008

impact regulations were designed to address. Further, your agencies aligned itself with an accused 

offender of the dispara.te impact theory. in o~der to "protect thedispayate impact regulations" 

It is my belief that the actions of your respecti'Ve agencies have caused great harm tp the Section 3 

community locally and nationally. It.istny -belleftha't t!kte were less discrim\ffaidJ)'1tIt.o.matives 

available whereby HUD and DOJ could have achieved the desire outcome without compromising 

the Section 3 efforts and gains that we so desperately need. 

During the last eight years, I have been a staunch advocate for revising the Section 3 statute and 

regulations. I have worked along with Congresswoman Nydia Velazquez's office, the 

Washington Section 3 office and with a number of Section 3 advocates to craft changes to the 

Section J statues and regulations, with particular interest of including a private right of action. 

I participated in the 20 I 0 Section 3 Listening Forum hosted by the Section 3 office and provided 

best practices and other comme'nts in order to strengthen the Section 3 program. In other words, 

I'm not just a whistle-blower. I've worked diligently to secure the Section 3 opportunities that 

have been denied the low-income c.omml1nity . . : '. 

The False Claim Act lawsuit was1heralded by the present administration as a potential game 

changer for compliance with HtJD regulations. My Section 3 false claim lawsuit was heralded, 

even by HUD itself, to be a catalyst for Section J compliance, a nOll-violent catalyst. My Section 

3 false claim lawsuit was not rejected based on the merits of the case but rather used as leverage 

due to its perceived value. The rejection has removed an important tool from the Section 3 

community's arsenal. 

The Section 3 regulations were promulgated based 011 the HUD Act and is not governed by the 

Fair Housing Act as the disparate impact regulations. The Section 3 program, when propel'ly 

operated, is an opportunity generating, proactive,job creating program/regulation while the 

disparate impact regulations are preventive and reactive by design. I do not contend with the Ileed 

for disparate impact regulations. I do, however, contend with elevating the need for disparate 

impact regulations over the unfuiplied promises of the 1968 HUD Section 3 regulations. 

Mr. HolderlDonovan, the Secti6n 3 community of St, Paul cannot afford to wait another forty 

years or even ten years for enforcement of Sectioll 3. The Section 3 community can not afforded 

to wait another four years for the next false claim lawsuit to navigate the legal process. 

It is my belief j'hat the Department of Justice and Department of HOllsing and Urban 

Development have it within thetr power to remedy the all-going injustice perpetrated against the 

Section 3 community. 

T encourage you to take corrective actions that address the harm caused the Section 3 community 

and myself. 

Respectfully, 

Fredrick Newell 

{I 56327.DOC· 51512013) 
27 


Insert offset folio 9 here 81282.009

Testimony before the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform 

By 

Fredrick Newell 

First and foremost I want to thank God for this opportunity ... and then as is proper and 

customary, I want to thank the Congressional Committee for this opportunity to present 

before you as representatives of our great nation, facts and concerns that has brought 

each of us to this appointed occasion. 

In as much as my attorney, Thomas De\'incke, has been introduced, I just want to take 

this opportunity to thank him for his help o\,er the past cight years. This man has been my 

legal counseL my shado\\', since 2005 and 10 date, haw received no monetary 

compensation, 

I will make constant reference in my testimony to a HUD program called Section 3. 

Section 3 is a federally mandated HUD program that was created to address the national 

issues facing this nation in 1968. The issues of that day were highlighted by the Kerner 

Commission formed by President Lyndon Johnson. The Kerner Report concluded that 

this nation was moving towards two societies, one black, one white- separate and 

unequal. Its finding was that the riots of 1968 resulted from the Black community's 

frustration at a lack of economic opportunities. 

The report urged legislation to promote racial integration, and to enrich slums. primarily 

through the creation of jobs, jobs training programs. and decent housing. To mark the 

thirtieth anniversary of the Kemer Report, the Eisenhower Foundation sponsored two 

complementary reports, The Millennium Breach and Locked in the Poorhouse. The 

Millennium Breach, co-authored by former Senator and Commission member Fred R. 

Harris, found the racial divide had grow'n in the subsequent years with inner-city 

unemployment at crisis levels.ill 

The Millelmium Breach found that most of the decade that followed the Kerner Report, 

America made progress on the principal fronts the report dealt with: race, poverty, and 

inner cities. Then progress stopped and in some ways reversed by a series of economic 

shocks and trends and the government's action and inaction. 

Harris reported, "Today, thirty years after the Kerner Report, there is more poverty in 

America, it is deeper, blacker and browner than before, and it is more concentrated in the 

cities, which have become America's poorhouses."I2J 

From the Kerner Report the Section 3 legislation, 24 CFR Part 135, was passed by 

Congress in 1968. 

The resulting Section 3 program was established to ensure that contracting, training and 

employment opportunities were provided to low and very low-income individuals in 

communities where BUD funds were expended. 

8'" Harris, Fred R. and Lynn A Curtis, eds. Locked in the Poorhouse: Crisis. Race. and Poverty in the 

United States. Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers Inc. 1998. 

9" Harris 
28 


Insert offset folio 10 here 81282.010

So one of the issues here today is the intended outcome of Section 3. That intended 

outcome is employment, training and contracting opportunities for the communities in 

this country where federal funds are being spent. Basically, Section 3 epitomized the 

essence of fair trade by requiring that the local community benefits from the 

opportunities in their community. 

Let's be clear, Section 3 focused on creating employment. training and contracting for the 

low-income community. 

Section 3 is a race-neutral program that takes into account that the federal government 

was and is expending federal funds in impoverished areas and seeks to use those funds to 

create economic opportunities for the residents of those areas. Those areas aren't just the 

inner cities. HUD funds are also expended in remote areas such as the Appalachian 

Mountains. HUD funds are expended in Wyoming and Idaho, any State or City where 

poverty or divestment has occurred. 

Section 3 is not a new tool. The same principles can be seen in the \Vorks Project 

Administration ofthe 1930's and 40's. 

As noted in a 2011 Section 3 Report by the American University, School of Public 

Affairs, entitled Section 3: Regulation as Policy ...... "The merits of Section 3 are 

compelling, as they aim to provide preference to low and very-low income persons and 

businesses as a means to promote self-sufficiency among this constituency and COlTect for 

an "unlevel playing field" in the labor market. However, through its nearly 43-year 

history, it has encountered a number ofbalTjers to successful implementation, including 

challenges in collecting accurate and useful data from HUD funding recipients, confusion 

or lack of awareness on the part of the funding recipients and intended beneficiaries, and 

a lack of training to qualify low and very low-income people for Section 3 opportunities." 

It is from this aim that I have spent over thirteen years of my life pursuing opportunities 

tbr the low-income community both ofSt. Paul, MN and nationally. So as you hear the 

teml Section 3, please think of the true issue ..... empJoyment. .. training ... and contracting 

opportunities for people who really want and need them,just like in 1968. 

Now I have elected to take the remainder of my time to read into the record one of the 

documents that I first drafted in January of this year. This is a copy of a letter that I 

intended to send to Attorney General Holder and Secretary Donovan. Because I have this 

shadow, Mr. Devincke, and pending legal actions I was advised not to sent the letters at 

that time but feels that it is important and pertinent to this proceeding. Hopefully, the 

committee will note and understand the tense of the language llsed in the letter. 
29 

Mr. JORDAN. It is my understanding Mr. Newell’s attorney, 

Thomas DeVincke, is present to assist and advise his client this 

morning and may be called upon to answer questions on behalf of 

his client. Pursuant to committee policy, we will now swear in Mr. 

DeVincke. However, the subcommittees recognize that Mr. 

DeVincke is not here as an independent factual witness but, rather, here in his capacity as counsel to Mr. Newell. 

Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are 

about to give will be the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the 

truth, so help you God? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I do. 

Mr. JORDAN. Let the record show that Mr. DeVincke answered 

in the affirmative. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from New York. 

Mr. NADLER. Let the record show that I object to Mr. DeVincke’s 

being sworn. I know he is going to be because of force majeure. But 

the fact is, his testimony was not noticed, and it’s improper under 

the rules of the House. 

If he’s not testifying, why was he sworn? And if he’s answering 

questions, he’s testifying. And it was not noticed. It’s a violation of 

the Rules of the House. I object. 

Mr. JORDAN. Objection is noted. 

The gentleman from Arizona, the chairman of the Constitution 

Subcommittee, is recognized for his 5 minutes of questioning. 

Mr. FRANKS. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Newell, I want to express a sincere gratitude to you. I know 

that, you know, this place is replete with political nuances, and I 

understand it; my own comments will be interpreted as such. But 

people like yourself, regardless of what the outcome of this hearing 

is, are the ones that really create the kind of forward movement 

in this country that is important to all of us. And I appreciate your 

courage and your tenacity and just your heart. 

Mr. NEWELL. Thank you. 

Mr. FRANKS. And, with that I guess the first question I’d like to 

ask you, just in your own words—I know sometimes we’re all called 

upon to read statements. I have to do it all the time, and it’s kind 

of a challenge to really get people to know what really you’re feeling. But can you just tell me, tell us all, what, honest to God, is 

your goal in bringing this False Claims Act case in the first place? 

Mr. NEWELL. My aims were accountable follow-up, and I’m referring to bringing the False Claim Act lawsuit. It was a follow-up to 

actions to make a program work in St. Paul that we found would 

help our people. 

When I first started, I started somewhere around 2000 pushing 

for Section 3. And as I did, we found that St. Paul didn’t have a 

Section 3 program. So I went from that point of encouraging them 

to about 2006, when I finally, after St. Paul deciding they weren’t 

going to start this program, I decided to file a Federal case in district court. As I did, this district court kicked the case out, basically 

saying that Section 3 had no private right of action in it. 

From that point, I went another 3 years of trying to encourage 

St. Paul, the public housing agency, and the city to do Section 3, 

30 

writing emails, encouraging them, talking to them, talking to the 

Section 3 program, providing them with information to try to get 

this program off the ground. And when they didn’t do it, then in 

2009 is when I filed and encouraged HUD to come into town. 

But had also looked at HUD’s programs, their solutions not to be 

adequate to what I was really hoping for. So, from that point, I also 

simultaneously, or within the months thereafter, filed a False 

Claim Act lawsuit. 

Mr. FRANKS. Well, I want you to feel free to consult with your 

counsel on any question here. But when DOJ says you were free 

to continue your case without them after this quid pro quo, it 

doesn’t sound like it’s really that simple to me, and I’d like for you 

to address that. 

And, essentially, how did DOJ’s secret deal not to intervene in 

your fraud case affect your chances of success in the court? The 

Senator tried to respond to that to some degree already, Senator 

Grassley, but I would like to hear your perspective on how it affected the potential success of your case. 

Mr. NEWELL. There is a—I’m told by my attorney there is a political—I mean, a legal land mine that I have to try to dodge here. 

And so if I get kicked under the table, I hope you will excuse my 

reactions. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Congressman, the issue as addressed by Senator 

Grassley, who I think got it largely correct, relates to a jurisdictional defense that’s available to claims that are being pursued by 

a relator after a case is declined by the Department of Justice. 

That question and the answer to that question touches also, Mr. 

Chairman, on your question about why Mr. Newell pursued Section 

3 complaints at every level and has been doing it for the last 8 

years. 

In this case, which has been dismissed, as has been pointed out, 

by the United States District Court but which is currently on appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit, 

St. Paul successfully raised a public disclosure bar defense and convinced, prevailed upon the court to conclude that Mr. Newell was 

not an original source of the allegations upon which the fraud 

counts are based. 

That defense is not available against claims that are pursued by 

the United States against the United States. That defense can still 

be raised as to a relator in a case that is accepted by the Department of Justice, as we believe this case would be. But Mr. Newell, 

importantly, has never pursued these matters for personal gain. 

And the False Claim Act played an important role in Section 3 

enforcement on the nationwide model. The only available remedies 

available other than a False Claim Act for Section 3 enforcement 

were administrative complaints before HUD, which are relatively 

finite proceedings defined jurisdictionally by HUD to include matters that have arisen in the past 6 months. If you’ve ever seen the 

one-page HUD complaint form for a Section 3 complaint, in a sense 

that form itself confines the jurisdiction of HUD on those administrative complaints. It’s quite limited. 

And as Mr. Newell pointed out, he attempted a direct complaint 

against St. Paul alleging a violation of Section 3, and, again, a jurisdictional defense was raised that the court lacked subject-matter 

31 

jurisdiction because the statute did not confer an implied private 

cause of action. Respectfully, Mr. Newell and I disagreed with that 

conclusion, but we did not take an appeal, mindful that we didn’t 

want to create some bad law in the circuit. I think that issue has 

been raised, which is always on an attorney’s mind no matter what 

they are working on; I agree with that thought. 

So point being, even if the public disclosure bar was raised on 

an intervened case and Mr. Newell’s relator standing was attacked, 

the lawsuit still would have served a great purpose for Mr. Newell’s Section 3 advocacy. The False Claim Act filled in or provided 

another level of enforcement for Section 3 that HUD had not pursued. To my knowledge, it was the first use of the False Claim Act 

in this specific context, first false certifications of Section 3 compliance. These cases are filed under seal, but enough time has gone 

by since it was filed, and I believe it’s only one. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

We’ll now turn to the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Cartwright. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Now, I have some legal questions, Mr. Newell. And I’m going to 

invite your counsel, Mr. DeVincke, to jump right in and help you, 

but, certainly, I don’t mean to preclude you, Mr. Newell, from answering any of these questions. And I welcome you here today, the 

both of you gentlemen. 

We heard Senator Grassley testify earlier today, and he talked 

about this defense, the public disclosure bar defense. And the idea 

is that you’re not really a whistleblower if you’re complaining about 

things that are available to the public in general. And the idea is 

a qui tam lawsuit can be dismissed because if it’s public information, there really isn’t a whistleblower involved in this particular 

case. 

Am I getting that right, Mr. DeVincke? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. As right as I’d probably get it, sure. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. All right. So that Senator Grassley did testify 

that, in this case, if the DOJ had pursued the case, then the public 

disclosure bar would not have been available as a defense. And 

that wasn’t quite right, was it, Mr. DeVincke? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. You want me to disagree with Senator Charles 

Grassley about the False Claim Act. You know, I was not top of my 

class in law school, so I’m not going to take that invitation, but I’ll 

just say this: That defense is not available against the United 

States and against the United States bringing its claim. It can be 

raised as to the relator at any time is my understanding. 

And I’ll just say this: This case is still on appeal. That issue 

could be litigated at a later date. That’s my answer. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. So that Senator Grassley’s statement was a bit 

of a broad-brush statement. It’s not quite as clear as he said it, is 

it? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Things are never that clear, are they? It was a 

bit of—— 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Thank you. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. —a broad statement. 

But I would say, I think—to be fair, he’s not here—I think Senator Grassley was mindful of the amendments that would not apply 

32 

to this case, which was prior filed. This is a 2000, and—I can’t 

speak for the Senator. I’ll just say this case was before the most 

recent amendments to the act, and perhaps he had those in mind. 

But it was a broad statement, yes. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. And, now, Mr. DeVincke, you started to go into 

your own pedigree as an attorney, and I don’t mean to interrupt 

you on that. Now, can you give us here in the hearing room an idea 

of how many False Claim Act cases you have litigated to verdict 

or judgment other than the Newell case? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. This is the only False Claim Act I’ve worked on, 

and I don’t—I don’t hold myself out as a False Claim Act expert. 

I am an expert on Mr. Newell and Section 3. 

But with that in mind, I co-counseled with Michael Allen of 

Relman Dane here in D.C., who, to my mind—and it might be too 

strong a word, but he in some ways pioneered the use of false certifications in a False Claim Act lawsuit regarding false certifications made to HUD, and he did that in the Westchester County 

case, which is of some renown in the practice of False Claim Act 

litigation. That case—— 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. I don’t mean to cut you off. I only have a limited—— 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Of course. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. —time, Mr. DeVincke. And I appreciate that. 

You do not hold yourself out as an expert in False Claim cases, correct? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. That is correct. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. All right. We do have an expert in False Claim 

cases here today, and it’s attorney Shelley Slade. Now, you’ve 

heard of her, I take it. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I have. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Okay. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. And I do not mean to occupy her panel if she’s 

supposed to be here. So my apologies if I’m in her—— 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. I think you’re a lot safer not being on her 

panel. 

All right, so here’s my question. The case of Rockwell v. United 

States ex rel. Stone, that’s a False Claims case, right? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. It is. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. And you are familiar with that, are you? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I’m having, like, law school flashbacks and nightmares right now, but, yeah, I’ve heard of the case. I’m not intimately familiar with it. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Is it not the case that Rockwell v. United 

States ex rel. Stone, which is a qui tam False Claims case, is the 

governing United States Supreme Court case on the issue of 

whether the public disclosure bar would be a defense if the Department of Justice had pursued the claim? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Correct. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. You’re aware that that’s the governing law? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. That’s correct. I am. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. All right. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. And I think I agree that the defense could still 

be raised as to the relator, but the United States would proceed 

with the claim. 

33 

And I hope I’ve been clear about how important that was to Mr. 

Newell, because Section 3 really suffered from a lack of visibility 

and enforcement. And the intervened case, whether a motion was 

brought as to the relator under the jurisprudence controlling a lot 

that I mentioned—— 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. I have one more question—— 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Oh, sure. I’m sorry. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. —Mr. DeVincke. The question is, not ever having handled a False Claims case or a qui tam case other than this 

one, when you agreed to take the case, did you have any frame of 

reference to say whether this was a good case, a bad case, or a better-than-average case? Did you have any frame of reference from 

your own practice? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Frame of reference? I researched the area of law 

generally and spoke to attorneys who practiced in the field. Is that 

frame of reference what—— 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. But from your own experience, you had no way 

of judging whether this was better than other qui tam cases you 

had handled, because you never handled any other such cases. Am 

I correct in that? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Well, respectfully, I had worked on Section 3 

issues with St. Paul—— 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. —for many years, and I was well aware that 

there are certifications to the United States Government were 

made in a knowingly false manner. HUD understood that. The Department of Justice clearly understood that. There were no questions in my mind about the strength of the case, in that there were 

false certifications for which payment was made. 

You know, the issues we would look at, materiality is always 

going to be a thorny issue. So you look at whether, you know, it’s 

a condition of payment versus a condition of participation. Being in 

the Eighth Circuit, you look at the Vigil case. 

And—I’m sorry, Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. That’s fine. I thank the gentleman. 

The gentleman from Florida is recognized, Mr. DeSantis. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Newell, thank you for coming here today. 

It seems to me whistleblowers are supposed to and can serve a 

vital function in highlighting governmental abuses so that waste 

and fraud can be remedied and that they shouldn’t be subordinated 

to the ideological predilections of a political appointee at the Department of Justice. And I would just note that the Department of 

Labor, of which Mr. Perez is nominated to be the head of, that they 

have roughly 20 whistleblowing statutes that are implicated in that 

agency. And so I think this is an important issue. 

And I just wanted to ask you, Mr. Newell, when you’re doing this 

as a whistleblower, bringing a case like that, is that something 

that’s easy to do, or was it difficult for you? 

Mr. NEWELL. Actually, it is difficult if you understand the potential kickback, if you would, from the communities that you’re in. 

Everything we’ve done in—on Section 3 have not been well received 

in St. Paul. And thereby our first actions to get Section 3 off the 

ground was rebuffed. And when we filed a case in 2005, then there 

34 

was some rebuffing. And as such, our company suffered. And even 

to when we brought the HUD complaints, we were even retaliated 

against. And even to this date, there is still—as you say, it’s not 

easy. There is much pushback. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Thanks. And my next question, I think you spoke 

to it. So you do feel that you did face retaliation through this process? 

Mr. NEWELL. We were—we filed a number of retaliation cases. 

And I say ‘‘a number’’ based on the fact that that—our initial filings with HUD was against St. Paul, against the St. Paul Public 

Housing Authority, against another entity in the city, the health 

department in Ramsey County. 

And St. Paul Public Housing Authority was found—HUD did investigate and found that the housing authority had retaliated 

against us. The Ramsey County Health Department retaliation 

complaint was investigated maybe 2 years after the complaint was 

lodged. And they stated they could—I believe the language was 

they could find no connection between the persons whom we say 

was involved in the retaliation and the ones who actually made the 

decision. 

And then we held presently a retaliation complaint against St. 

Paul itself that has yet to be addressed, where we had projects we 

bidded on or where we had opportunities we sought, and the city 

did not respond to us to let us take part in those projects. We basically documented for 2 years after they did a voluntary compliance 

agreement where we went to them, kept contacting them, saying 

to them we want these opportunities, and the city refused to let us 

in the door. 

And as a matter of fact, finally, we was asked by Department of 

Justice and HUD, or at least through—I believe it was through 

HUD that we stop contacting the city pressing for those things, because there seemed to be some issue of us pressuring them. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Are you going to add something? 

Mr. NEWELL. Yes. My attorney was just kind of pointing out a 

point that may be well introduced. And that is, our companies in 

time past, when we first started this, or, better still, as you heard 

in the introduction, we started in 1995. Our companies had great 

potential. As companies, we had approximately eight different disciplines that we operated in. And from the year 1997—we started 

in 1995. About year 1997, we were working with the Minneapolis 

public housing program, and they had a Section 3 program or at 

least were producing one. As such, our revenues went from the 

basic first year, second year of $20,000, $30,000, $100,000 to where 

we begin to peak out as $300,000, $400,000 worth of work from ’97 

through 2000, where we had begin to do work and quality work. 

And so we were doing demolition, asbestos abatement, lead abatement. We had a number of other areas. We were licensed as residential builders. 

So within that period of time, we had even got accredited, according to our growth, that we were awarded with two awards as Entrepreneur of the Year and/or runner-up in a certain community. 

After we started pushing for Section 3 in 2000, then in St. Paul a 

lot of my efforts went toward trying to get that program off the 

ground by a factor of contacting the city, saying to them, ‘‘We can 

35 

help with you this program. We’ve got people we can work with.’’ 

We even went to the community development corporation then, got 

them to nominate low-income individuals from their communities, 

saying to them, ‘‘If you will nominate them, we will put them into 

the work we’re doing. We’ll get them trained using HUD dollars, 

and we will get them into jobs.’’ Nothing prevailed. We got the people trained, but no work came out of it. 

And so, as a company, when we pushed for Section 3 in St. Paul, 

we started getting instant pushback. We were told, we’re not hiring, we’re not taking on any new contractors. And the more we 

pushed, the more resistance. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Great. Thank you for that. 

I see my time has expired, and I yield back. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from New York is recognized for 5 

minutes. 

Mr. NADLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Newell, it seems to me we’re really talking about two different things here. One is Section 3. 

Mr. NEWELL. Go ahead. 

Mr. NADLER. And the other is the whistleblowers and qui tam. 

Now, in 2007, you filed a Federal lawsuit against the city of St. 

Paul, Nails Construction Company et al. v. City of St. Paul. 

Mr. NEWELL. 2006. 

Mr. NADLER. 2006, excuse me. In that lawsuit, you alleged the 

city had failed to comply with Section 3 in a number of ways. 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

Mr. NADLER. Why was the case dismissed? 

Mr. NEWELL. The case was dismissed because the Federal courts, 

not just on my case but in a number of cases, were determining 

that the language that enforced Section 3 did not provide for a private right of action for individuals to bring this case before the 

Federal courts. 

Mr. NADLER. But wasn’t it also true that the court found that 

you had not been on the contracts and had no personal injury in 

that case—— 

Mr. NEWELL. There was—— 

Mr. NADLER. —and, therefore, no standing? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I can comment. 

Mr. NEWELL. Please. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. The court in dicta was not the holding of the 

court. The court in dicta mentioned that, because the plaintiff had 

not identified a contract to which they would be entitled under Section 3, they lacked Article 3 standing to pursue the claim. 

Mr. NADLER. Exactly, they lacked standing. So, in other words, 

Mr. Newell lacked standing, and the case had to be dismissed. 

Now, presuming—— 

Mr. DEVINCKE. If I may—and I understand the time is short— 

we respectfully disagree with that. 

Mr. NADLER. You disagree with the court. Fine. But that was the 

holding of the court. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Correct. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Newell, presuming you were able to overcome 

the standing issue and other issues, do you think that Congress 

should work to create a private right of action under Section 3? 

36 

Mr. NEWELL. I appreciate the question. That’s something that 

I’ve been pushing for for the last—since that time, since 2005. 

Mr. NADLER. Okay. 

Mr. NEWELL. A lot of our work with Congresswoman Velazquez 

has been toward that end. 

Mr. NADLER. Well, I would agree with you. But what you’re really saying, or at least my conclusion about what you’re really saying 

is that your beef is with Congress for not creating the private right 

of action and not really with what we’re talking about here today. 

Now, would you have—the False Claims Act, as we know, we 

have discussed this already—well, if you had—if Congress had created that private right of action, you would not have needed to pursue a False Claims Act case, correct? 

Mr. NEWELL. That may be so. 

Mr. NADLER. You would have pursued—— 

Mr. NEWELL. I think part of it would’ve been determined by the 

possible remedies for the community that we were seeking. 

But you made a statement. You said the beef is regarding not 

having a private right of action. 

Mr. NADLER. Well, the chief—— 

Mr. NEWELL. I take—and it would have been in one of my—in 

my statements. I take issue only to the point that my beef, I guess, 

goes a little deeper. And I don’t like the term ‘‘beef,’’ but since you 

used it—— 

Mr. NADLER. All right, but go ahead. 

Mr. NEWELL. Okay. We pushed for this in 2005 hoping to get for 

that community because of the problems that were in that community. And believe me, Minneapolis-St. Paul is considered the worst 

in the country. Please, let me—— 

Mr. NADLER. Excuse me, I only have 5 minutes—we know—I’ll 

grant that St. Paul isn’t very good on this stuff. So just go ahead. 

Mr. NEWELL. Okay, then my point is this: We pushed Federal 

courts. That did not work. We went to HUD. We did not go to HUD 

first because we were concerned that HUD would only do administrative actions. When we finally got to HUD, we got administrative 

actions that was very limiting. But we were also encouraged by 

HUD that they would support this False Claim Act lawsuit. And, 

as such, we saw this as the true opportunity. 

Mr. NADLER. Okay. So HUD said, or someone at HUD said they 

would support a False Claims Act. But, of course, you realize that 

HUD has to go to the Department of Justice, which makes all litigation decisions for the Federal Government. 

Mr. NEWELL. And so when we met with the Department of Justice and HUD in St. Paul, it’s similar to how I kind of have been 

meeting individuals here. There are times when individuals will 

come to you and shake your hand and say, ‘‘Good job.’’ That’s 

what—that’s the response we got when we met with Justice and 

HUD, that they felt this was a good case. 

Mr. NADLER. Okay. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I do want to comment generally that an express 

private cause of action would go a long way to address all of the 

flaws in the enforcement model that we talked about earlier. 

Mr. NADLER. I certainly agree with that, and we should do that. 

37 

Now, we have discussed in this hearing so far the public disclosure bar which prohibits lawsuits on the False Claims Act by people who do not know anything beyond—who aren’t alleging something that isn’t publicly already known. 

Now, I gather that you are barred, in effect, by the False—not 

by the—by the public disclosure bar. You said that had the Federal—had the Justice Department sued, that would have eliminated that problem. But—no? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. It doesn’t take the issue completely out of the 

case—— 

Mr. NADLER. Yeah, I was coming to that. My understanding is 

that Mr. Newell would still have been dropped from the case as a 

result of the public disclosure bar, but the Justice Department 

could have continued on its own, the United States could have continued on its own. 

But, in effect, what you’re saying is that the Federal Government 

should have had its own lawsuit with Mr. Newell out of it. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. No. We would never say that. We’re saying 

that—— 

Mr. NADLER. But that’s what you’re saying would have happened, at best. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I’ll say this: I believe Mr. Newell is an original 

source, and I’m hopeful that on appeal the Eighth Circuit will 

agree with me. He does have independent direct knowledge of the 

fraud. And because that issue is on appeal, all I can respectfully 

say is, you know, I don’t want to speculate in that direction. I will 

say this: The public disclosure bar can still be an issue in a case 

even on an intervened case, generally speaking. 

Mr. NADLER. I see my time has expired. Thank you. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the gentleman. 

The chairman of the Judiciary Committee, the distinguished gentleman from Virginia, is recognized. 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, I would like to start by reminding folks why we’re 

here today, which is to examine a secret deal struck by a senior 

Justice Department official, Assistant Attorney General Thomas 

Perez. This secret deal was brokered by Mr. Perez with the city of 

St. Paul in order to prevent a case from being decided by the Supreme Court. In this exchange, Mr. Perez pressured officials at 

both the Justice Department and the Department of Housing and 

Urban Development to overrule career attorneys and abandon two 

pending False Claims Act cases against St. Paul. This quid pro quo 

potentially cost American taxpayers over $200 million. 

The Judiciary and Oversight and Government Reform Committees have been conducting an investigation into this matter for over 

6 months. And I would point out that is long before Mr. Perez was 

nominated by the President to a Cabinet-level position in another 

department. 

And last month, the committees released a report detailing this 

background deal. The report found, among other things, that Assistant Attorney General Perez was personally and directly involved in negotiating the mechanics of the quid pro quo, and he 

personally agreed to the quid pro quo on behalf of the United 

States during a closed-door meeting with the mayor of St. Paul; 

38 

that despite the Department of Justice’s contention that the intervention recommendation in Newell was a, ‘‘close call,’’ and, a ‘‘marginal,’’ contemporaneous documents show the Department believed 

that Newell alleged a particularly egregious example of false certifications, and, therefore, the United States sacrificed strong allegations of false claims worth as much as $200 million to the Treasury; that Mr. Perez attempted to cover up the quid pro quo when 

he personally instructed career attorneys to omit a discussion of 

the Supreme Court case in the declination memos that outlined the 

reasons for the Department’s decision to decline intervention in 

Newell and Ellis; and that Mr. Perez attempted to cover up the 

quid pro quo when he insisted that the final deal with the city settling two cases worth potentially millions of dollars to the Treasury 

not be reduced to writing, instead insisting that, ‘‘your word was 

your bond’’; and that Mr. Perez made multiple statements to the 

committees that contradicted testimony from other witnesses and 

documentary evidence. 

So, Mr. Newell, I want to first thank you for coming forward 

today and ask you, first of all, how all this made you feel after you 

saw the courage you had to take to step forward, the wrongs that 

you were trying to right, and to see it all subverted as a part of 

a much larger deal. 

Mr. NEWELL. As this issue was brought to light, many people 

say, ‘‘Aren’t you upset?’’ Now, I believe that there’s a good reason 

that I’m here today and would not have come otherwise. It wasn’t 

to undercut but to finish the agenda that I had, which was making 

Section 3 work. 

Section 3 was and is so important to me that when I looked at 

disparate impact regulations, my first response was they’ve caused 

the very results by protecting the disparate impact that disparate 

impact was designed to do, and that is to not cause discriminatory 

effects. 

We pressed for Section 3. We took every effort we could, and we 

found after court actions and HUD actions that we couldn’t make 

any inroads on Section 3. And then we found that the False Claim 

Act lawsuit was a real possibility. The administration—— 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Let me interrupt you right there because I want 

to ask you a question about that. 

So you had discussions with representatives of the Department 

of Justice and the Department of Housing and Urban Development 

about the False Claims Act case that you thought you had. What 

kind of statements did you receive from them about whether they 

planned to pursue your False Claims Act case? And how strong, in 

your mind, were those signals? 

Mr. NEWELL. The False Claim Act lawsuit went under seal in 

2009. And so there weren’t a lot of direct communications on it. 

There was encouragement from the HUD Department in our actions. I remember being at one particular seminar with Deputy 

Secretary Sims, who was heralding Section 3—I mean, False Claim 

Act as the remedy for a lot of the regulatory actions that couldn’t 

be addressed otherwise. Same individuals came to me thereafter 

and shook my hand, who didn’t know me, and said ‘‘Hey, good job. 

Keep up the good action.’’ So a lot—— 

39 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Let me ask you one more question, since my 

time has expired. 

How do you think your experience might affect the willingness 

of future whistleblowers to come forward? 

Mr. NEWELL. I think—— 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Isn’t that really why you’re here today? 

Mr. NEWELL. I’m sorry? 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Isn’t that really why you’re here today, to make 

sure that the opportunity to step up and call attention to wrongdoing is not something that is subverted and discouraged but, in 

the future, that people don’t feel that way? And how do you think 

how this case was handled will affect those future whistleblowers? 

Mr. NEWELL. That is number two on my agenda, it is, because 

I do believe that—let’s say it this way. One of the individuals before I left St. Paul who deals with a lot of the Section 3 businesses 

made a statement to me, and he said that one of my biggest concerns is that most of these contractors who I deal with will not 

want to go through what you went through. They will not want to 

file a complaint, knowing that the city of St. Paul will retaliate, 

that the administration or, if you would, HUD will not support, and 

that their actions can cause the kind of actions or results that 

you’ve experienced. 

So you’re more than correct. It is, in my eye, a real travesty what 

has happened. I hope to turn it into an opportunity, as everything 

else I’ve done. But, yes, it is truly—and I can’t imagine that even 

the administration would think otherwise, that the efforts that we 

went through and that they supported just got sold, according to 

what I was told. But being sold, it also sold the Section 3 community and me down the road. 

Mr. GOODLATTE. Mr. Newell, I thank you for coming forward 

today. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the chairman. 

The ranking member of the Oversight Committee is recognized, 

the gentleman from Maryland. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Newell, I want to thank you for your testimony. 

Mr. NEWELL. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Your concerns about people being left out, not 

being given opportunities, being treated unfairly—— 

Mr. NEWELL. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. —working hard all their lives simply to have a 

piece of the American pie, never getting it, and then they die. 

Mr. NEWELL. Go ahead. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. So I can understand your concerns. And I want 

to just go to your lawyer. 

The majority, Mr. DeVincke, has made a claim that Mr. Perez— 

who, by the way, I’ve known for over 15 years and is one of the 

most honorable people I know—manipulated the decision-making 

process for intervention in a False Claim Act case—and I understand that you don’t consider yourself an expert, I understand that, 

but I’m sure you can easily answer this question—resulting in a 

consensus of the Federal Government to switch its recommendation 

and decline intervention. 

40 

I just want to ask you two questions about intervention decisions 

and DOJ’s decision-making process. And I’m going to ask the same 

thing of Ms. Slade. 

And, Ms. Slade, I wish you were on this panel because it would 

have made it a lot more—I mean, I think we could have been much 

more effective and efficient in our time and our efforts. 

But be that as it may, Mr. DeVincke, are there any requirements 

in the False Claims Act that mandate that the government intervene? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I can answer that one. No. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Yeah, good. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. There’s nothing that mandates it; is that right? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. No. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. And isn’t it true that DOJ intervenes in only 25 

percent of False Claims Act cases that are brought to the Department? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. That I have heard, but I don’t know. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Okay. 

So, you know, it’s certainly no coincidence that today’s hearing 

is being held 1 day before a committee vote in the Senate to confirm Tom Perez as the President’s nominee for Secretary of Labor. 

Today’s hearing is an unfortunate and highly partisan exercise intended to raise unfounded questions about the reputation of Mr. 

Perez, despite the fact that there is no evidence that his actions 

were anything but professional and in the best interests of combating discrimination in our Nation’s housing. 

The core allegation leveled by the Republicans is that Mr. Perez, 

as the head of the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice, inappropriately coordinated a quid pro quo agreement with 

the city of St. Paul in which the Department declined to intervene 

in two False Claim Act cases in exchange for St. Paul withdrawing 

a separate case before the Supreme Court. 

The problem with the Republican theory is that Mr. Perez did 

nothing wrong. He obtained clearance from the ethics officials at 

the Department. He coordinated properly with the head of the Civil 

Division. And he and others at the Department relied on career experts with decades of experience, who concluded after a careful review of the evidence that the False Claims Act cases were too weak 

to recommend that the government expend resources to litigate 

them. 

Since then, a host of other legal experts have backed up the Department’s conclusions. For example, in a statement issued yesterday, Professor Stephen Gillers, who has taught legal ethics for 

more than 30 years at the New York University School of Law, 

wrote that a Republican report issued last month suggesting that 

Mr. Perez acted improperly, ‘‘cites no professional conduct rule, no 

court decision, no bar ethics opinion, and no secondary authority 

that supports this argument.’’ The reason, he explained, is that 

there is no authority that supports it. 

In addition, one of today’s witnesses, Shelley Slade, is an attorney with 20 years of experience in False Claim Act cases. She explained in her written statement, ‘‘I am confident that the decisions 

taken by the Civil Division officials with regard to the Newell qui 

41 

tam case, including the factors that were considered in declining 

the decision, were fully consistent with the law as well as ethical 

and professional obligations.’’ 

She went on to say, ‘‘If my law firm had been contacted about 

taking on this case, we would have rejected it. Notwithstanding the 

apparent strong evidence that St. Paul engaged in repeated and 

egregious violations of Section 3 of the Housing and Urban Development Act of 1986, the qui tam case presents serious litigation 

risks on a number of fronts.’’ 

And, with that, I yield back. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Newell, you’ve lived in St. Paul how long? 

Mr. NEWELL. Since 1985. 

Mr. JORDAN. 1985. You are a successful businessman, awardwinning small-businessman, it was cited earlier. You’ve been a pastor in that community for how long? 

Mr. NEWELL. Since—officially, just since 2006. 

Mr. JORDAN. You’ve been a pastor in that community. You are 

a founder of a nonprofit. You care about the people you live with 

and work with and minister to; is that correct? 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

Mr. JORDAN. And you cite in your testimony, let’s be clear, Section 3, focus on creating employment, training, contracting for the 

low-income community. 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

Mr. JORDAN. That’s what it’s about. And St. Paul wasn’t doing 

the job. And you knew they weren’t doing the job. You saw it firsthand, they weren’t doing the job. And you said, this is not right, 

they are wasting taxpayer money, and they not helping the people 

they are supposed to help, the people I care about, the people I live 

with, the people I minister to. 

And you were mad about it. And you said, ‘‘You know what? I’m 

going to take action.’’ And even if you couldn’t proceed personally, 

you wanted the United States to proceed and intervene because 

you wanted to fix the problem. Isn’t that correct? 

Mr. NEWELL. That is correct. 

Mr. JORDAN. And you not only knew that they were wrong, the 

Department of Justice knew they were wrong. 

Put up slide 1, if you would, please. 

Right here it says, ‘‘The United States Attorney’s Office for the 

District of Minnesota and HUD recommend that we intervene.’’ 

This is a November 2011 letter to Tony West, Assistant Attorney 

General for the Civil Division. 

Put up slide 2, please. 

‘‘We recommend—’’ same letter—‘‘We recommend intervening in 

this action to assert false claims actions and common law claims 

against the city.’’ They know what you know. They know St. Paul 

ain’t doing the job. 

Put up slide 3, if you would, please. 

The city knew about its obligation to comply with Section 3 but 

failed to comply. The Justice Department knew exactly what you 

saw firsthand. 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

42 

Mr. JORDAN. They said it three times now in the same stinking 

letter. 

Slide 4, please. 

We believe this is a particularly egregious example of false certifications given by the city. Repeatedly shown what it had to do, 

repeatedly failed not to do it. Right? 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

Mr. JORDAN. Now, let’s go to—let’s go to a year later. Same people, career attorneys at Justice, writing to the same guy, Tony 

West, Assistant Attorney General, Civil Division. Now, this is exactly like slide 1 except for two words. It says, ‘‘The United States 

Attorney’s Office for the District of Minnesota and HUD recommend that we decline to intervene.’’ So something’s changed. 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

Mr. JORDAN. One year later, we got the exact same language, except they add words, ‘‘We decline to intervene.’’ 

Slight 6, if you could, please. 

They say it was a close call, this decision not to intervene a year 

later. Now, just a few months before that they had said it’s egregious, it’s false, they failed to comply, we’ve never seen anything 

like this, this is a terrible example, we agree with Mr. Newell, we 

know how bad it is. And now they call it a close call. 

Slide 7, please. 

Again, they say, ‘‘We decline to intervene after going through it.’’ 

And then we have the—where they go through—in the last slide, 

slide 8, they refer to the case. They refer to Magner in the last 

case. 

And so here’s my question to you: What changed their mind? 

What event took place between November 2011 and the February 

2012 letter? What happened? 

Mr. NEWELL. Well, sir—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Well, let me suggest something here. 

Mr. NEWELL. Go ahead. 

Mr. JORDAN. I would say this: I would say Mr. Perez got on the 

phone and started talking to the folks in St. Paul, at the city, said, 

‘‘Hey, guys, you’re in trouble. I got smart people at Department of 

Justice who say you guys are in big trouble.’’ 

Mr. NADLER. Point of order, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman will state his point. 

Mr. NADLER. You’re asking a witness questions of which he can 

possibly have no knowledge. You ought to be asking this of Justice 

Department officials as to what changed. Mr. Newell—— 

Mr. JORDAN. I would love to ask Justice Department officials. All 

I know is Mr. Newell was supposed to testify a week ago—— 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Newell can have no—— 

Mr. JORDAN. —and the hearing was cancelled. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Newell—— 

Mr. JORDAN. And I didn’t interrupt you during your 5 minutes, 

so I would like to go ahead and ask the witness questions. 

Mr. NADLER. I am making a point of order. You’re asking a witness questions of which he has no possible knowledge, namely what 

changed within the Department—— 

Mr. JORDAN. I’ll rephrase it. 

43 

Mr. NADLER. Let me finish. Namely what changed within the Department of Justice. 

Mr. JORDAN. I’m asking—— 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Newell has no knowledge of that. 

Mr. JORDAN. Mr. Newell has a lot of knowledge of this case. 

That’s why he’s the whistleblower in front of the committee. 

Mr. NADLER. He knows nothing of the decision-making process 

within the Department of Justice, which is what you’re asking 

about. 

Mr. JORDAN. Okay. Well, let’s say, Mr. Newell, would you hazard 

a guess as to why this dramatic change from Justice, what events 

may have transpired in the interim to take the Justice Department 

saying it’s egregious, they failed to comply, I’ve never seen anything like this, to, oh, now it’s a close call, we’re not going to weigh 

in? 

And all I’m suggesting is I know one event that took place. Mr. 

Perez called the attorneys at St. Paul, talked to the folks—in fact, 

on February 3rd, Mr. Perez took what I would assume was a pretty 

unprecedented action, got an a plane, flew to St. Paul, sat down in 

a closed-door meeting with the lawyers in St. Paul, and the next 

thing we know they’re saying this is a close-call case and we’re not 

going to intervene. 

Do you know of anything else that could have possibly been an 

event that would change what the Justice Department interpretation of this whole case was? 

Mr. NEWELL. In answer to your question, sir, no. 

I was going to say a second ago that in reading much of or all 

of the data that’s been flowing out—and I’m not referring only to 

that he told the reporters reports, but the understanding from the 

statements from the Department of Justice—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Well, let me just ask you this, Mr. Newell, because 

my time is running short. Those first four slides I showed—egregious, both Justice and HUD said we should intervene, we concur 

that career—this is Justice and HUD from Minnesota and—they’re 

all saying we should jump into this case, this is a strong case, St. 

Paul is pathetic, they’re not doing the job, we should get involved. 

Did they relate that to you guys when you were having conversation? 

Mr. NEWELL. Yes. 

Mr. JORDAN. So that’s consistent with what they told you. 

Mr. NEWELL. That is consistent with—— 

Mr. JORDAN. And then suddenly this dramatic change. And the 

only event I can think of that might have had—and, now, Mr. Nadler may think it’s something else, but I think maybe there’s a 

chance when Mr. Perez gets on the phone and calls them, gets on 

a plane and flies up there personally, I don’t know that—you know, 

why not just let the same lawyers who’ve been doing it handle this 

case? It was moving along fine. But, no, he personally flies to St. 

Paul, goes in a closed-door meeting, and, shazam, everything 

changes. Go figure that. 

I see my time has expired. With that—— 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Mr. Chairman, we can say that—I had most of 

the conversations with the United States Attorney’s Office. And I 

44 

can tell you that as of November 7th of 2011, it was accepted without debate that the United States would intervene in this case. 

And, in fact, I had been contacted by the Department of Justice 

on two fronts: one, to gather information that would counter and 

address St. Paul’s defense that it did not have substantial funds to 

pay a settlement; and, two, that I should reach out to my local 

media contacts to get Fredrick’s story out because Justice expected 

that St. Paul would get its story out and it would be negative toward my client, and that Justice wanted me to run point on public 

outreach on the case. 

Mr. JORDAN. To me, this is as obvious as it gets. This is someone 

in a position of power who said, You know what? Forget what the 

facts say. Forget what the people who for over 2 years have looked 

at this case and said this case is one we should intervene in. Forget 

all that. I care more about this theory and what may happen in 

front of the United States Supreme Court. And because I’m in a position of power, I’m going to hurt the poor people in St. Paul, Minnesota, that Mr. Newell pastors to, ministers to, and works with. 

I’m going to hurt them. 

And that’s exactly what—and anyone with common sense can see 

this pattern. They can see the memos and the emails sent in November 2011. And they can see the abrupt change after Mr. Perez 

gets on a plane, flies to St. Paul, goes in a closed-door meeting, and 

changes people’s minds because he is powerful and he’s now going 

to be potentially the next Secretary of Labor. And that’s why this 

is wrong, and that’s why this hearing is so important. 

With that, I’d yield to—— 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Mr. Chairman, may I comment on that briefly? 

Mr. JORDAN. No. I’m going to recognize Ms. Kelly first; then 

we’ll—— 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Of course. 

Mr. JORDAN. We’ll keep going. 

Ms. Kelly, I’m sorry. 

Ms. KELLY. I have no questions for this panel. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. If I may comment briefly on the prior statement? 

We don’t know or believe that Mr. Perez—personally, I’ve never 

met the man. I don’t think he bears any ill will toward Mr. Newell. 

Mr. NEWELL. Mr. Perez? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Yeah. 

But I do want to say that, you know, my client was overlooked 

here in this process. And we feel that Mr. Perez’s department or 

he himself should have taken Mr. Newell into account at some 

point in this process. He was the relator on this case, and yet he 

was not told about any resolution reached. He was not told that the 

Magner case was connected to his case in any way. And he wasn’t 

given any share of any proceeds of anything that the government 

received ultimately. 

And that’s on appeal right now. We want to have some discovery 

on these issues regarding whether there was a settlement or an alternate remedy under the statute. But as a relator, he had rights. 

Mr. JORDAN. Ms. Kelly, you yield your time back? 

Ms. KELLY. Yes. 

Mr. JORDAN. Okay. 

We’ll recognize chairman of the full committee, Mr. Issa. 

45 

Mr. ISSA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I’d ask unanimous consent that my letter to the Honorable 

Thomas Perez of May 6th, 2013, be entered in the record. 

Mr. FRANKS. [Presiding.] Without objection. 

Mr. ISSA. Thank you. 

Mr. ISSA. In this letter, I’m making it clear that, as of today, this 

committee has had zero response as to what is known to be 1,200 

emails, of which at least 35 occasions we know that these emails 

were in violation by Mr. Perez of the Federal Records Act. 

And this remains one of the great questions of this committee, 

is: If somebody works at the highest levels of law enforcement, circumvents a Federal law, why is it the Justice Department, the very 

entity that to a certain extent is on trial here today for their 

wrongful actions against Mr. Newell, why they refuse to make 

these records available? 

We do have one record I’d like to make available in realtime. 

Could we have the voicemail played, please? 

This is an actual call. 

[Voice message begins.] 

‘‘Mr. Perez: Hey, Greg. This is Tom Perez, calling you at 9 o’clock 

on Tuesday. I got your message. The main thing I wanted to ask 

you—I spoke to some folks in the Civil Division yesterday, and 

wanted to make sure that the declination memo that you sent to 

the Civil Division—and I’m sure it probably already does this—but 

it doesn’t make any mention of the Magner case, it’s just a memo 

on the merits of the two cases that are under review in the qui tam 

context. So that was the main thing I wanted to talk to you about. 

I think, to use your words, we’re just about ready to rock and roll. 

I did talk to David Lillehaug last night. So if you can give me a 

call, I just want to confirm that you got this message and that you 

were able to get your stuff over to—— 

[Voice message ends.] 

Mr. ISSA. Thank you. 

Mr. Newell—— 

Mr. NEWELL. Yes. 

Mr. ISSA. —were you aware of this kind of direct action by Mr. 

Perez? 

Mr. NEWELL. No, I was not. 

Mr. ISSA. Earlier, one of the Members, Mr. Nadler, apparently 

decided that you didn’t have knowledge of certain things so you 

couldn’t be asked a question. Having heard this, do you believe 

that this and other phone calls and emails may have contributed 

to your case, your valid case, your valid concern on behalf of your 

community essentially being circumvented by Mr. Perez? 

Mr. NEWELL. Based on everything I’ve read, even in the reports 

from the committee, I would say they all had a definite bearing. 

Mr. ISSA. And I think for your counsel: In your experience, this 

kind of ex parte intervention, do you find that a little unusual to 

come out of somebody who is supposed to stand on behalf of civil 

rights as the law is written? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Mr. Chairman, I will duck your question a little 

bit and just say this generally. What was most disturbing to my 

client and I was—and we don’t know this to be the fact, but the 

suggestion in the record evidence that there may have been an afVerDate Aug 31 2005 10:40 Jun 13, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00051 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\81282.TXT APRIL
46 

firmative offer from either HUD or Justice to aid St. Paul in defending my client’s False Claim Act case when these were the two 

departments that worked so closely with my client for so many 

years and had pledged support to him and he had dedicated his 

time and resources to the cause. And then to find out that, in fact, 

they provided material support or may have promised to provide 

material support to the defendant in a False Claim Act case was 

very troubling. And it remains troubling. 

Mr. ISSA. Well, there are two things I’d like to put in the record 

at this time. 

First of all, this committee will not cease its investigation until 

we have interviewed individuals who changed their position as to 

what caused them to change their position. We will interview any 

and all necessary for that. And we look forward hopefully to finding 

whistleblowers who will tell us about these ex parte conversations 

and how this may have led to it. 

Secondly, I would call on Mr. Cummings, my ranking member, 

to join with me to insist that Mr. Perez provide these emails which 

were done in violation of the Federal Records Act, to make them 

all available to the committee to be reviewed to find out how many 

additional documents were used and what the documents’ contents 

are. 

I’d yield to my ranking member. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Let me just ask you this. I understand that some 

of these—some of these records were received and reviewed by committee, the committee staff. Is that right? In camera at the Department. 

Mr. ISSA. The—Mr. Perez—you’re somewhat correct. Mr. Perez 

initially said under oath that there were none, then 1, then now 

34 additional, which we were allowed to see in camera but not allowed to have copies of. 

The committee has requested all roughly 1,200 to be reviewed 

since he has, one, had a lack of memory of actual violations of Federal record, and, quite frankly, the committee has a right to look 

at all documents that he used on this quasi-government email to 

determine whether or not he has been truthful. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Well, would the—just this one thing. I’m happy 

to—you know I’m happy to cooperate with you. Contrary to some 

of the things that have been said on national media, we on this 

side do care about whistleblowers. We do care about whistleblowers. I want to make that real clear. And I resent anybody saying anything different than that. 

And we will work with you. As I’ve said to you many times, I will 

follow the evidence wherever it may lead. And so I’d be happy to— 

I just need to know exactly what I’m agreeing to, that’s all. 

Mr. ISSA. Well, and let me rephrase it. The 34 that we were allowed to see in camera were redacted. We want the unredacted 

versions of that. And we’d like to have all 1,200—in other words, 

all the emails that he used—for an in camera, unredacted review. 

Now, if they’re personal, the committee, on a bipartisan basis, 

can say ‘‘next, next,’’ until we’ve gone through them all. But in the 

sense that initially it was claimed he had zero, then 1, now 35, and 

we haven’t been able to see them in the entirety, it would certainly 

47 

seem that we, the committee, should be the judge of whether any 

or all of the 1,200 additional ones are germane. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. All right, I will join you and work—— 

Mr. ISSA. I thank the gentleman. 

Yield back. 

Mr. JORDAN. [Presiding.] I thank the gentleman. 

I now recognize the gentleman from Nevada, Mr. Horsford. 

Mr. HORSFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m going to reserve 

my time for the third panel. 

Mr. JORDAN. Got it. 

Mr. HORSFORD. And I know we have been asking for this to be 

both sides of the issue, and we have spent now 2 hours and haven’t 

heard from the other side. 

Mr. JORDAN. Okay. Fine. 

The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. McHenry, is recognized. 

Mr. MCHENRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for 

having this very important hearing and publishing the report. 

This committee has worked very diligently over the last Congress 

and this Congress to find the truth in what is a very bad situation, 

tragic in its results for you, Mr. Newell, and awful in its intent by 

somebody who’s going through Senate confirmation today, who is 

a high-ranking government official, Mr. Perez. Mr. Perez’ actions 

raise great questions about his intentions on this matter and even 

to the question about his willingness to provide very important information, not even following through and following through in delivering records for a subpoena request. 

So I do want to ask about this whistleblower lawsuit because this 

matters to taxpayers. This matters to taxpayers, though Mr. Perez 

has brought himself into great question based on his actions and 

his interventions against what was working through the process 

with career Department of Justice officials who, apparently, according to the records we’ve seen, thought that, Mr. Newell, you had 

a strong case. 

Now, Mr. Newell, how long were you working with the Department of Justice on your case? 

Mr. NEWELL. We first met with Department of Justice in 2009, 

and so it started from that point. 

Mr. MCHENRY. 2009. 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

Mr. MCHENRY. And how long did they work with you until—how 

long did they work with you? 

Mr. NEWELL. We finally got an indication or declination in 2012. 

Mr. MCHENRY. 2012. 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

Mr. MCHENRY. Mr. DeVincke, you’re an attorney by trade. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Right. 

Mr. MCHENRY. When you’re working with the Department of 

Justice, did they give you an indication you had a weak case in the, 

you know, 2, 3 years that you’re working with them on this? Did 

they say, you know what, we’re not going to throw government resources on this whistleblower claim; you know, we’re just going 

to—I mean, did you get any indication? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. The indications were uniformly that the case had 

merit. This position was strengthened by St. Paul’s response to the 

48 

claims against them, which Justice found to be further evidence of 

knowingly false certifications in support of the case. 

Also, Justice served a lengthy subpoena on the city of St. Paul 

that resulted in a what we call open-file discovery where the Justice Department, I believe through the United States Marshals 

Service, conducted open-file discovery at city hall in St. Paul. 

Mr. MCHENRY. So is that—I’m not an attorney, and I know we’ve 

got Judiciary folks here. They are well-versed in that. Is that kind 

of standard for a weak case? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I am no expert on—— 

Mr. MCHENRY. I’m sorry. I wish the ranking member would jump 

in and tell me that was a bad question to ask. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. I would say—— 

Mr. MCHENRY. So let me just ask this. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. They spent 2 years and 9 months, significant attorney time, investigator time, and resources on the case. They tied 

out the damages to the penny. And—— 

Mr. MCHENRY. And what was that? What did they come out to? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. $86 million and change—— 

Mr. MCHENRY. Oh, and change. Okay. 

Mr. DEVINCKE.—was the received funds. And then—— 

Mr. MCHENRY. So we’re Congress, so we won’t worry about the change. We’ll just talk about the $86 million. 

And as a result of that claim, what would the taxpayers recoup? 

Mr. DEVINCKE. If it was trebled, the maximum recovery under 

the damages model that would be most aggressive would be approximately $260 million, plus penalties, plus fees, plus costs. 

However, there are—that’s a simple answer because you’re asking for the biggest number possible. There are alternate damages 

models. And we never really got there, just because the number 

was so high already. In fact, there was quite a debate over whether 

they were even going to spend all the time to tie out the damages 

to the penny because, as some attorney at Justice said, what’s the 

point? We know it’s in the tens or hundreds of millions. And we 

also know that, it being a taxing-authority municipality, we’re not 

going to try to essentially bankrupt the city of St. Paul. That would 

not be in anyone’s interest. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. So the point being, the actual amount of damages—— 

Mr. MCHENRY. Okay. 

Mr. DEVINCKE. Once you hit a certain number, you go to settlement. 

Mr. MCHENRY. Thank you. 

So, Mr. Newell—— 

Mr. NEWELL. Yes. 

Mr. MCHENRY. —are there still problems with the St. Paul lowincome jobs programs? 

Mr. NEWELL. There are. 

Mr. MCHENRY. Okay. Now, have you ever met with the Assistant 

Attorney General, Tom Perez? 

Mr. NEWELL. No, I have not. 

Mr. MCHENRY. Okay. Have you ever talked to Mr. Perez about 

the problems in St. Paul with Section 3 compliance? 

Mr. NEWELL. With Mr. Perez, no. 

49 

Mr. MCHENRY. Okay. Mr. Newell, you know, when we are going 

through these records, we see an obvious quid pro quo by the Assistant Attorney General. 

Mr. NEWELL. Okay. 

Mr. MCHENRY. That is a deep issue for us, as an oversight panel, 

to make sure that we get the facts of your case. And my understanding is, through this whole process, there are documents that 

were jaw-dropping to you and your attorney based on the fact that 

you had the Department of Justice moving forward and they were 

going to support your claim. 

Mr. NEWELL. Go ahead. 

Mr. MCHENRY. Politics intervened. An Assistant Attorney General, using his personal email account to get around government 

records requests, counter to the law that is existent for the executive branch, trying to use his personal email account and some of 

these games that you played with voicemails so that he wouldn’t 

have to disclose the fact that he was putting the screws to you and 

your case and the taxpayers. 

This is the deeply devastating thing that we have to bring to 

light. And I ask my colleagues on the other side of the Capitol 

Building to think twice about Mr. Perez’ nomination based on the 

records that we have simply come through with on this committee. 

It raises great question about his government service. What we 

want is honorable and good folks that are there for the government 

good and the public good, not simply out for politics. 

And this is obviously what Assistant Attorney General Perez was 

all about. That’s what we see in his records, and that’s why we 

need more records, to actually verify what we have seen is, in fact, 

true. 

And, with that, I yield back. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the gentleman. 

I now yield to another gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. 

Meadows. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Mr. Newell, for having the courage to come and 

testify, but not only having the courage to come and testify, to 

stand up for those that don’t have a voice. And we appreciate your 

willingness to do that. 

And I want to get right to some of the points that have been 

made. Obviously, as we look at it, in testimony there has been an 

indication from the get-go from Mr. Perez that this was a weak 

candidate for intervention. Was that your understanding from career staff people that you talked to? 

Mr. NEWELL. No, sir. 

Mr. MEADOWS. So you never got that indication, that it was a 

weak candidate? 

Mr. NEWELL. No, sir. 

Mr. MEADOWS. All right. Let me go on a little bit further. And 

so, as we start to see this, if indeed it was not a weak candidate, 

do you believe that they would have been investing all this time 

and your time to look at this, the amount of dollars to pursue this, 

if they didn’t have some hopes that it would have merit? 

Mr. NEWELL. No, sir. 

50 

Mr. MEADOWS. So when we start to see this—you know, my colleagues opposite here have created this almost sainthood of Mr. 

Perez in terms of who he is. In fact, I think to quote Mr. Cartwright, he said that there’s not a single thing that he has done 

wrong. 

And would you agree with that, having read some of the things 

that are here, would you agree with that characterization, that 

there is not a single thing that he has done wrong? 

I can see you are reluctant to answer that, and so I’m going to 

go on because my time is limited. 

So the committee has done a great job. And as I started to review 

all of this, I said, well, obviously, even the President can’t know all 

this stuff that has gone on with Mr. Perez and feel good about this 

nomination because of some of the things that are there. And so, 

everything that you have heard from career attorneys, would you 

say that it was a marginal case based on what you have heard 

from them? 

Mr. NEWELL. I have yet to hear—well, you say have I heard from 

any attorney that it was a marginal case? 

Mr. MEADOWS. In general. Did most of the attorneys indicate 

that it was a marginal case? 

Mr. NEWELL. And are you referring to attorneys that worked 

from Justice, HUD, or what are you referring? 

Mr. MEADOWS. From Justice. 

Mr. NEWELL. I will confess that all communications with the Department of Justice and HUD was through my attorney. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Okay. 

Mr. NEWELL. But all references to me from my attorney was that 

our case was not only a good case, but in the phrase of Justice was 

discussing settlement of the case, and that’s why they kept extending—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. So they thought there was enough merits there 

to discuss settlement? 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. 

Mr. MEADOWS. All right. Let me go on a little bit further. We 

talked just a few minutes ago about these emails, these nonofficial 

emails, that have been sent by the Assistant Attorney General, Mr. 

Perez. 

Were you aware of that, that he was sending personal emails to 

different folks? 

Mr. NEWELL. No. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Okay. I have a letter here that was sent to him 

that outlines the fact that there has been some 1,200 times that 

his personal email has been used. And I’m troubled by some of the 

things that I see in there, mainly because we want to make sure 

that it gets covered. 

In this particular letter, it refers to the fact that there are 34 

separate violations of the Department of Justice, the Federal 

Records Act. Were you aware that he was violating the Federal 

Records Act some 34 times? 

Mr. NEWELL. No, sir. 

Mr. MEADOWS. All right. Let me go on a little bit further, because, in this, it is real troubling that he actually sends a personal 

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51 

partment of Justice that was not public. And to quote this, it says, 

‘‘Just closed a deal 15 minutes ago. Will announce at 3 o’clock tomorrow.’’ 

Okay? So when you look at this email, he is sending private information from the Department of Justice to a New York Times reporter of a deal that, quite frankly, was about Countrywide Financial Corporation. And so would you not think that that would be 

inappropriate? 

Mr. NEWELL. Not—my attorney kind of put the answer that I 

would have said, which is simply, I’m not in a position to be able 

to, you know, evaluate or judge those particular actions. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Well, I guess my question is, as a citizen, when 

I read this, I would say, well, why would a New York Times reporter be privy to information from the Department of Justice? 

Would that not—would you do the same thing? Let me ask you 

that, Mr. Newell. 

Mr. NEWELL. Would I—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. Would you let somebody, a reporter know about 

nonpublic information before it’s known to the public if you were 

working for the Department of Justice? 

Mr. NEWELL. I’m not clear on the constraints that he would have. 

Mr. MEADOWS. All right. 

Well, I can see my time is out. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you for your indulgence. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the gentleman. 

I now recognize the gentleman—we started with an Iowa guy, 

and we are finishing here with an Iowa guy—the gentleman from 

Iowa, Mr. King. 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I thank you 

for this hearing. 

And, Mr. Newell, I very much thank you for your testimony and 

for your willingness to step up for all this time and take on something that I think you view as an injustice. 

And as I listen to the testimony and the questions in this hearing, I just reflect upon—you deliver a sermon from time to time, 

Mr. Newell? 

Mr. NEWELL. Yes, I do. 

Mr. KING. And I don’t have any knowledge of this, but I’m going 

to ask you a question, and that is: Have you ever contemplated or 

delivered a sermon on the irony of a dishonorable man from the 

Department of Justice delivering injustice to honorable people? 

Mr. NADLER. I have—Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman is recognized. 

Mr. NADLER. If Mr. King will not take back his words referring 

to the Assistant Attorney General as a dishonorable man, I think 

his words ought to be taken down. 

Mr. JORDAN. I think the gentleman was talking about a sermon 

that Mr. Newell may have delivered about honorable—— 

Mr. NADLER. I think he was referring to the subject of this hearing, and I think that it was clear from the context. 

Will Mr. King make clear that he was not referring to Mr. Perez 

when he commented in any way or analogizing Mr. Perez when he 

commented on a dishonorable man? 

52 

Mr. JORDAN. I don’t think the gentleman mentioned anyone’s 

name in his comments. He was talking about—— 

Mr. NADLER. I asked Mr. King if he would—— 

Mr. JORDAN. And I am the chairman of the committee, and I was 

just saying what I heard, what I think what most people heard—— 

Mr. NADLER. I’m glad what you heard. I asked Mr. King a question. I am entitled to do that before I move to take down his words, 

if I do. 

Mr. JORDAN. I was going to let him answer your question. 

Mr. NADLER. Fine. Thank you. 

Mr. JORDAN. All I’m saying is, I think the gentleman was asking 

Mr. Newell, in his duties as a pastor—— 

Mr. NADLER. You don’t have to instruct him how to answer the 

question. He is smart enough to answer for himself. 

Mr. JORDAN. I know he is smart enough to answer for himself. 

I just wanted to give you my opinion of what I think most people 

in the room heard. He can respond. 

Mr. KING. I thank you both for the endorsement of my ability to 

answer this question. 

And I’d make the point that I specifically didn’t name anyone. 

This is a question—I can repeat it again—about a dishonorable 

man from the Department of Justice delivering such injustice to 

honorable people. 

And I would point out that in the previous discussion that we 

have had here, I remember Mr. Nadler saying that this is a shameful smear campaign against Mr. Perez, and went on, and the gentleman from Maryland said that he is one of the most honorable 

men I know. 

Mr. NADLER. I agree. 

Mr. KING. So I have heard the endorsement of Mr. Perez. I didn’t 

state his name in my question. And I wouldn’t be willing to change 

the definition or the meaning of what I said, nor ask my words be 

taken down, be removed—— 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. KING. —because the answer is no. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. JORDAN. The ranking member is recognized. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. I’m going back to what Mr. Nadler said. It 

sounds like he was referring—I mean, just based on what he just 

said, it sounds like he was referring to Mr. Perez. 

I’m just, I mean, I’m listening here. And, by the way, when I said 

honorable, I was saying something good about the person who I 

know. I was not, you know, going against his character or making 

him sound like some bad person. There is a big difference between 

what I did and what you did. 

Mr. KING. Since you have all brought up this discussion about 

the honorability or dishonorability of the individual I didn’t name, 

I would point out that individual testified before the Judiciary 

Committee twice that I can recall, once in 2009, once in 2011. And 

in 2009 Mr. Gohmert asked the gentleman you are referring to if 

he had seen the video of the New Black Panthers, and it took five 

questions to get the answer ‘‘yes’’ to that. When I asked him on 

June 1st of 2011, did you provide the highest penalty under law 

to the individual who was the principal in the New Black Panthers 

53 

case, his answer was, yes, the highest penalty under law. We know 

that wasn’t true. 

So I’m going to suggest when I say the dishonorable man, you 

know the facts that I have just listed here, and that’s why you 

jumped to the conclusion that I was talking about Mr. Perez. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Well, who are you talking about? 

Mr. KING. I asked a hypothetical question to the witness, and 

you are all inflammatory here, inflamed because you know that the 

question itself goes so close to the real truth that we are talking 

about here, and that is the lack of integrity that is being presented 

by the President. 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman has 4 minutes and 20 seconds. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I move to take down the gentleman’s words. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. By the way, Mr. Chairman, we are not being inflammatory. 

Mr. JORDAN. In the practice of the House, I would just—Members 

may employ, when referring to references to executive officials, 

which Mr. King didn’t do, but nevertheless, if he was referring to 

an executive official, he is permitted to employ strong language in 

criticizing the government, government agencies, and government 

policies. So I think the—and he did not say anything personally offensive toward the President. 

And the gentleman from New York, if he wants words taken 

down, he needs to specifically decide which words he wishes taken 

down. I don’t believe there was a violation of the House practice 

or committee rules, and would recognize the gentleman from Iowa 

for his remaining 4 minutes and 20 seconds. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, my—— 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. NADLER. —motion has to be disposed of. 

Mr. JORDAN. Yeah, and I indicated that the gentleman needs to 

state which specific words he wants taken down. 

Mr. NADLER. I want the words specifically in which it was clear 

from the context he was referring to Mr. Perez. He said the word 

‘‘dishonorable.’’ 

Mr. JORDAN. The chair rules that the words of the gentleman 

from Iowa are not parliamentary because they—excuse me. The 

chair overrules the point of order by the gentleman from New York 

but asks that the Members please afford all of the Members the respect that they are entitled and refrain from using rhetoric that 

could be construed as an attack on the motives or the character. 

Mr. NADLER. Given the ruling of the chair and hoping that Mr. 

King will adhere to those, I will withdraw the motion. 

Mr. JORDAN. I appreciate the gentleman withdrawing. 

The gentleman from Iowa is recognized. 

Mr. KING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will revert back to my 

natural gentle nature and turn to the witness at hand. 

And I would ask you then, Mr. Newell, when did you first suspect that there might have been a quid pro quo? 

Mr. NEWELL. We—right after we got our declination, about I 

would say within the next month or so, I was approached by a gentleman who was part of the Magner case, who then asked me if I 

knew of some connecting issues there. 

54 

Mr. KING. And then when—you’ve got a question about that. 

When was it confirmed? When did you learn about the Perez involvement? 

Mr. NEWELL. The actual Perez involvement came to my attention 

when the letters went out to the—or when I received copies of the 

letters to the Secretary of HUD and the Secretary of—I mean, Assistant Secretary—Attorney General. 

Mr. KING. And the copies of the letters, they would be some of 

the letters that Mr. Issa introduced into the record? 

Mr. NEWELL. Correct. That would be about September or October 

of 2012. 

Mr. KING. Uh-huh. And yet Mr. Perez said that there wouldn’t— 

this wouldn’t be documented, it would be your word was your bond, 

if I remember the discussion. Had you run across that language 

previously? 

Mr. NEWELL. I have. 

Mr. KING. And then did it seem curious to you that he would be 

willing to put such a message on an audio of a voicemail that—had 

you heard that voicemail before today? 

Mr. NEWELL. No, I had not. 

Mr. KING. Does it seem curious to you that a man that is so careful about making sure that there isn’t a trail would leave a 

voicemail? 

Mr. NEWELL. The advice was similar to my own thought, and 

that is not a personal—or not wanting to make the speculation 

based on knowing his intent. 

Mr. KING. Let me state, it seems curious to me, Mr. Newell. 

Mr. NEWELL. I understand. 

Mr. KING. And do you have the sense now that you have been 

sold out? 

Mr. NEWELL. If I go by the language of the letter or the statement made by Miss Tracy, I believe, from the Department of Justice that that was a global resolution, I kind of count that as being, 

‘‘sold out’’ or cut out of what was an actual deal that was made. 

So, in a sense of the word, her statement says they did make a 

deal, that they did have a global settlement, a global resolution. 

And I, you know, I have not been a party to that resolution at all. 

Mr. KING. And, Mr. Newell, I can only imagine what it must be 

like to toil every day to help people the way you do in a number 

of different ways, multitasking to do so, and step into something 

like this, like this qui tam case. And impossible to anticipate that 

a very questionable legal theory called disparate impact could be 

a legal theory that would be so important to be defended that the 

interest of the taxpayers and the people in the community and 

those that you work for and represent should pay such a price to 

try to advance such a questionable legal theory. And I question 

whether justice ever comes from the levels that we have seen in 

this way. 

And so I just appreciate your testimony. And I hope and I pray 

that the energy that you put into the community and into helping 

the people you minister, that it is not drained away by these kind 

of confrontations, that it strengthened instead of weakened, and 

that you can go forward from this and look back on it being strongVerDate Aug 31 2005 10:40 Jun 13, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00060 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\81282.TXT APRIL
55 

er and better. And I thank you for your contributions to your community and your country. 

And I yield back. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the gentlemen. 

Mr. Newell, we want to thank you again for your courage in stepping forward and for the work you are doing in St. Paul to make 

life better for the families that you get a chance to interact with 

and minister to and work among. 

And, Mr. DeVincke, we want to thank you, as well. 

We will now move to our third panel. If staff could get the table 

ready for Ms. Slade. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from New York. I’ve said that how 

many times, I wonder, today. 

Mr. NADLER. You will say it more. 

Mr. JORDAN. I figured I would. 

Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, before we start this third panel, I 

just want to note for the record my objection to this absolute travesty that you have perpetrated here today, in which the minority 

party’s witness was not permitted to testify on the same panel. We 

have had 2–1/4 hours of that panel. Virtually none of the Republicans are here for the second panel—for the third panel, rather. 

Consequently, it will be a much shorter panel. And you have had 

2–1/4 hours of one-sided presentation before—— 

Mr. JORDAN. If the gentleman would yield? 

Mr. NADLER. I will not yield. 

Mr. JORDAN. If the gentleman wants 2–1/4 hours for Ms. Slade, 

he can have it. 

Mr. NADLER. Very good. We will take as much time as we think 

necessary because there are not—but the fact is, I have never seen 

in a committee of this House before where you had the one side’s 

witnesses on one panel and the other witness on a subsequent 

panel. 

Mr. JORDAN. Because you are not a member of the Oversight 

Committee. If you were, you would have seen it. 

And you used the word ‘‘travesty.’’ The travesty is what has been 

done to Mr. Newell. And— 

Mr. NADLER. Well, that is the subject of—— 

Mr. JORDAN. No, no, no, no. 

Mr. NADLER. That is the subject of the hearing that you will discuss. 

Mr. JORDAN. No, you used the term ‘‘travesty.’’ 

Mr. NADLER. About the committee hearing, not about the subject—— 

Mr. JORDAN. The travesty is families in St. Paul are not getting 

the kind of support they need, and now they will be continued to 

be denied that because this suit couldn’t go forward. That is the 

travesty. 

Mr. NADLER. The subject matter—— 

Mr. JORDAN. And the travesty is Mr. Newell was supposed to testify a week ago in a Senate committee and he was denied his 

chance to tell his story. 

Mr. NADLER. The subject—— 

56 

Mr. JORDAN. He needed a single panel to do that, and that’s why 

we afforded him that opportunity. 

Mr. NADLER. The subject matter of the hearing, namely what 

went on in St. Paul and whether that is good or bad or indifferent, 

we have talked about for the last 2 hours, will—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Indifferent? 

Mr. NADLER. Wait, wait. 

Mr. JORDAN. Minneapolis citizens you’re indifferent about? 

Mr. NADLER. I’m certainly not indifferent. I’m saying whether 

that was good or bad or whatever, the merits of that we have 

talked about for the last 2 hours. We will continue talking about 

it in the next panel. 

What I’m saying was the travesty is not anything to do with the 

subject matter but the manner of conduct of this hearing. Totally 

unfair. 

Mr. JORDAN. The longer the gentleman talks, the longer we’ll 

have to wait for Ms. Slade to give her testimony. 

Ms. Slade, we want to thank you for joining us today on this allimportant third panel. 

We’d ask that you stand up. We have the practice where witnesses need to be sworn. And stand up, raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and 

nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Ms. SLADE. I do. 

Mr. JORDAN. Let the record show that the witness affirmed the 

statement. 

And you are now recognized, Ms. Slade. You’ve been here, saw 

how this works, and you’ve probably testified in front of Congress 

before. 

Ms. Slade is a lawyer here in Washington, D.C. 

And you now have your 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF SHELLEY R. SLADE, PARTNER, VOGEL, SLADE 

& GOLDSTEIN, LLP 

Ms. SLADE. Okay. Thank you. 

Good afternoon, Committee Ranking Minority Member 

Cummings, Subcommittee Chairmen Jordan and Franks, Ranking 

Minority Members Cartwright and Nadler, and members of the 

subcommittee. Thank you for the invitation to testify. 

I am here in my personal capacity as an attorney with more than 

20 years’ experience handling qui tam cases filed under the False 

Claims Act. For the last 13 years, I have been a partner in a law 

firm dedicated to the representation of False Claims Act whistleblowers. Before that, I spent 10 years in the Civil Division of the 

Department of Justice handling False Claims Act matters. 

I plan to address two issues. First, I will summarize the law and 

procedures that ordinarily govern the Department of Justice’s decision-making process with regard to intervention in qui tam cases. 

Second, I will provide my perspective as a qui tam practitioner on 

the Department of Justice’s decision to decline to intervene in the 

U.S. ex rel. Newell v. City of St. Paul lawsuit. 

The False Claims Act provides that a private party, referred to 

as a qui tam plaintiff, may bring a False Claims Act action on behalf of the United States by filing a complaint under seal and servVerDate Aug 31 2005 10:40 Jun 13, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00062 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\81282.TXT APRIL
57 

ing the complaint on the United States alone. After the government 

investigates the case while it remains under seal—and the investigation may last as long as 4 or even 5 years—the United States 

must notify the court whether it will intervene in the case. In those 

instances in which the government declines to intervene, the qui 

tam plaintiff may proceed to litigate the case on their own under 

a private attorney general provision in the law. 

The Department has broad discretion in making its intervention 

decisions. As the U.S. Supreme Court held in Heckler v. Chaney, 

‘‘An agency’s decision not to prosecute or enforce, whether through 

civil or criminal process, is a decision generally committed to an 

agency’s absolute discretion.’’ 

The courts that have elaborated on this principle in the False 

Claims Act context have ruled that a Department of Justice decision on whether to pursue a qui tam case need bear no more than 

a rational relationship to a legitimate government purpose. Accordingly, courts have upheld even motions to dismiss qui tam cases, 

which is not at issue here, over the objections of the whistleblower, 

on grounds such as working to achieve peace among competitors, 

protecting national security, and conserving scarce law enforcement 

resources. 

As a matter of practice, when the Department of Justice decides 

whether to intervene, it relies heavily on recommendations from affected program agencies. Those recommendations often take into 

account the agencies’ broad programmatic interests. 

Although this hearing is focused on Mr. Perez, this hearing is 

also implicitly examining whether it would have been improper or 

unusual for the Civil Division to take into account broad programmatic interests of the client agency in deciding whether to intervene in the Newell case. 

I would see nothing the least bit untoward or unusual if this, in 

fact, was the case. The Civil Division’s decisions on intervention, by 

relying on program agency recommendations, often take into account the agency’s broad policy concerns. Moreover, knowing, as I 

do, the clear managers who have overseen the False Claims Act 

work in the Department, I am confident that the Civil Division’s 

actions were fully consistent with the law as well as ethical and 

professional obligations. 

With regard to the merits of the Newell case, it is surprising to 

me that the line attorneys originally recommended intervention. If 

my law firm had been contacted about taking on this case, we 

would have rejected it. Notwithstanding the apparent evidence that 

the city of St. Paul engaged in egregious regulatory violations and 

notwithstanding the commendable efforts of Mr. Newell to correct 

those infractions, the case, as a qui tam case, presents serious litigation risks. 

To be successful, a False Claims Act plaintiff must establish 

much more than violations of a regulation. Most courts hold that 

the plaintiff must demonstrate that the agency consider compliance 

with the regulation to be a prerequisite for or material to the payment decision. Yet, in the Newell case, there appears to be evidence that HUD, one, knew about the city’s failure to submit required Section 3 reports; two, likely learned about the city’s failure 

to comply with Section 3 during the agency’s annual reviews; and, 

58 

three, on at least two occasions exercised a legal option to continue 

funding the city after having found that the city was out of compliance with Section 3. 

Learning of the factors that the Department of Justice may have 

taken into account in deciding whether to intervene in this case 

will not, in my judgment, deter whistleblowers or their counsel 

from bringing meritorious qui tam cases. Given the legal challenges, the equities, and the broader programmatic concerns, the 

Department’s decision-making process, in my view, was fully consistent with its usual policies and practices. 

Thank you. 

Mr. JORDAN. Thank you, Ms. Slade. 

[Prepared statement of Ms. Slade follows:] 

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Insert offset folio 11 here 81282.011

TESTIMONY OF SHELLEY R. SLADE 

Before the 

House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform's 

Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Job Creation and 

Regulatory Affairs and the House Committee on the 

Judiciary's Subcommittee on Constitution and Civil 

Justice 

Hearing on "DOJ's Quid Pro Quo with St. Paul: A 

Whistleblower's Perspective" 

May 7, 2013, 10 a.m. 

Background 

I am testifying today in my personal capacity as an 

attorney with more than 20 years' experience handling qui tam 

cases filed under the federal False Claims Act. I am a partner 

with Vogel, Slade & Goldstein, LLP, a Washington, D.C., law firm 

dedicated exclusively to the representation of qui tam 

plaintiffs in such cases. I have been a partner at Vogel, Slade 

& Goldstein for 13 years. For the last five years, I have also 

served as a member of the Board of Directors of Taxpayers 

Against Fraud Education Fund. This organization is a nonprofit, public interest organization dedicated to combating 

fraud against the government and protecting public resources 

through public-private partnerships. I currently serve on the 

Executive Committee of that Board. 

Between 1990 and 1999, I was a Trial Attorney and then 

Senior Counsel for Health Care Fraud in the Commercial 

Li tigation Branch of the Civil Division of the U. S. Department 

of Justice. As a Trial Attorney in the Commercial Litigation 

Branch, I handled dozens of False Claims Act qui tam cases for 

the United States. As Senior Counsel for Health Care Fraud for 

the Civil Division, I coordinated the handling of health care 

fraud policy and legislative matters among DOJ components, 

between DOJ and other government agencies and between DOJ and 

the private sector. Throughout my tenure at the Department of 

Justice, I reported to Michael F. Hertz, who at the time was 
60 


Insert offset folio 12 here 81282.012

Page 2 of 11 

overseeing the Frauds Section as a Director of the Commercial 

Litigation Branch in the Department of Justice's Civil Division. 

Joyce Branda served as Mr. Hertz's deputy during most of my time 

at the Department. 

I am a 1980 graduate of Princeton University and a 1984 

graduate of Stanford Law School. 

I will address three issues in my testimony that I hope the 

Committee on the Judiciary and the Committee on Government 

Oversight and Government Reform will find relevant to the 

matters at issue in this hearing: i) the law and procedures that 

govern the Department of Justice's decision-making process with 

regard to intervention in qui tam cases; ii) my personal 

experiences with regard to those intervention decisions and how 

they inform my view of the declination decision in United States 

ex rei. Newell v. City of St. Paul, Civil Action No. 09-1177 (D. 

Minn.); and iii) my perspective, as a qui tam practitioner, on 

the merits of the allegations asserted by the qui tam plaintiff 

in United States ex rel. Newell, supra. 

Before preparing my testimony, I reviewed the April 15, 

2013 Joint Committee Report entitled "DOJ's Quid Pro Quo with 

Saint Paul: How Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez 

Manipulated Justice and Ignored the Law," including the 

documents in Appendix I, the Report of the Minority, the U.S. 

Department of Justice's memoranda reco:mmending intervention and 

recommending declination in the United States ex rel. Newell 

case, the district court's opinions in the case, and the April 

22, 2013 letter from Thomas F. DeVincke to the Health, 

Education, Labor and Pension Committee Chairman Tom Harkin and 

Ranking Member Lamar Alexander. 

Intervention Law and Procedures 

The False Claims Act provides that a private party, 

referred to as a qui tam plaintiff or relator, may bring a False 

Claims Act cause of action on behalf of the United States by 

filing a complaint under seal and serving the complaint and 

disclosure of material evidence and information on the United 

States. 31 U.S.C. § 3730(b). The False Claims Act then 

provides the United States with sixty days, plus any extensions 

granted by the court for "good cause" shown, to investigate the 
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Insert offset folio 13 here 81282.013

Page 3 of 11 

relator's allegations while the case remains under seal and 

decide whether to intervene in the case, or, in other words, to 

join the case as a party and take over the litigation. Id. 

The case remains under seal until the deadline for Government's 

decision on intervention. Id. 

At the end of this period of time, the United States must 

notify the court whether it wishes to intervene in the lawsuit. 

Importantly, when the government decides not to intervene in a 

case, it is neither resolving the case nor dismissing the case. 

The False Claims Act contains a "private attorney general" 

provision that permits the qui tam plaintiff to proceed with the 

litigation on his or her own following a government declination. 

31 U.S.C. § 3730(b). 

In the False Claims Act, Congress did not dictate to the 

U.S. Department of Justice the criteria it should employ in 

making this intervention determination. This is appropriate 

under our Constitution. The Constitution entrusts the Executive 

with the duty to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully 

executed." U.S. Const., Art. II, § 3. As the U.S. Supreme 

Court held in Heckler v. Cheney: "an agency's decision not to 

prosecute or enforce, whether through civil or criminal process, 

is a decision generally committed to an agency's absolute 

discretion." Heckler v. Cheney, 470 U.S. 821, 831 (1985). 

In the False Claims Act context, the U.S. Court of Appeals 

for the District of Columbia has ruled that "[the decision 

whether to bring an action on behalf of the United States is . 

therefore 'a decision generally committed to [the government's] 

absolute discretion.'" Swift v. United States, 318 F.3d 250, 

252 (D.C. Cir. 2003). In the case at issue in this hearing, 

U.S. ex rel. Newell v. City of Saint Paul, supra, the district 

court likewise ruled that: "[t]here is nothing in the FCA which 

requires the government to intervene, even 

information to justify intervention." 

Memorandum and Order, November 26, 2012, at 

if it 

Id., 

3. 

has sufficient 

Doc. No. 75, 

The federal courts have addressed the question of what it 

means for the Department of Justice to have virtually 

"unfettered discretion" over a prosecutorial decision in a False 

Claims Act case. When addressing the legality of a Department 

of Justice motion to dismiss a qui tam case over the objections 
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Page 4 of 11 

of the relator -- a decision of greater consequence than the 

Department's decision whether to intervene or decline in a case, 

since a case may still go forward without the Department's 

participation -- courts that have looked at the issue have 

emphasized the broad discretion vested in the Department of 

Justice to decide what is in the best interests of the United 

States in making its enforcement decisions. See, e.g., Hoyte v. 

Am. Nat'l Red Cross, 518 F.3d 61, 65, 380 U.S. App. D.C. 185 

(D.C. Cir. 2008); Ridenour v. Kaiser-Hill Co., L.L.C., 397 F.3d 

925, 936 (10th Cir. 2005); Swift v. United States, 318 F.3d 250, 

252, 355 u.s. App. D.C. 59 (D.C. Cir. 2003); United States ex 

rei. Sequoia Orange Co. v. Baird-Neece Packing Corp., 151 F. 3d 

1139, 1145 (9th Cir. 1998); United States ex rei. Stevens v. 

State of Vt. Agency of Natural Resources, 162 F.3d 195, 201 (2d 

Cir. 1998), rev'd on other grounds, 529 U.S. 765, 120 S. Ct. 

1858, 146 L. Ed. 2d 836 (2000). The D.C. Circuit held that § 

3730(c) (2) (A) "give[s] the government an unfettered right to 

dismiss an action," rendering the government's decision to 

'dismiss essentially "unreviewable." Swift v. Uni ted Sta tes, 

supra, 318 F.3d at 252. 

Several courts have elaborated on this general principle. 

Those courts, which include the U.S. Courts of Appeals for the 

2°, 9ili and 10ili Circuits, have ruled that the dismissal decision 

need bear only a rational relationship to a legitimate 

government purpose. See Ridenour v. Kaiser-Hill Co., L.L.C., 

supra; United States ex rei. Stevens v. State of Vt. Agency of 

Na tural Resources, supra; Uni ted Sta tes ex rei. Sequoia Orange 

Co. v. Baird-Neece Packing Corp., supra. 

The courts have upheld government dismissals of qui tam 

cases when the government agency purpose that is furthered by 

the dismissal falls within the mission of the government agency. 

For example, in the False Claims Act context, they have found 

legi timate purposes to include: achieving peace among 

competi tors and regulators in the citrus industry; preventing 

the release of classified information; protecting national 

security; and, conserving scarce law enforcement resources. 

Far short of deciding whether to dismiss a case over the 

obj ection of a relator, the Department of Justice must first 

decide whether to intervene in and conduct the case as the 
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Page 5 of 11 

primary plaintiff. The Department of Justice generally makes 

this determination after it 

the Relator's allegations, 

years. 

has completed its 

a process that 

investigation of 

can take several 

The first step in the Department's decision with regard to 

intervention is the formulation of a recommendation by the line 

attorneys that have handled the case. In cases above a 

specified monetary threshold, these attorneys typically draft a 

memorandum for the Director of the Commercial Litigation Branch 

to submit to the Assistant Attorney General for the Civil 

Division. In doing so, 

program agency affected 

they solicit the recommendation of the 

by the alleged fraud and the U.S. 

Attorney for the judicial district in which the case has been 

filed. Only in rare cases would a Commercial Litigation Branch 

attorney submit a recommendation in favor of intervention 

wi thout the support of both the program agency and the U. S. 

Attorney's Office. The program agency generally is in the best 

position to assess whether it has been a victim of false claims 

and whether broader programmatic concerns and priorities argue 

for or against pursuit of the qui tam case. The U. S. Attorney's 

Office would necessarily be closely involved in litigating the 

matter before the court. 

During my tenure at the Department of Justice, the time 

period that might elapse between the line attorney's submission 

of a recommendation on intervention and the decision by the 

Assistant Attorney General on that recommendation was typically 

between 10 and 14 days. My experience is that this period of 

time now may have lengthened given the scarcity of resources at 

the Department, and can sometimes exceed three weeks. 

above, the trial attorneys on the case generally to not 

their memorandum seeking authority to intervene or 

until the Government has completed its investigation 

Relator's allegations. 

As noted 

prepare 

decline 

of the 

The Department of Justice intervenes in only about 20 

percent of filed qui tam cases. My experience has been that, 

in making its intervention decisions, the Department of Justice 

frequently considers recommendations from affected program 

agencies that take into account the broad programmatic interests 
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Page 6 of 11 

of the agencies, rather than focusing solely on the possibility 

of achieving a monetary recovery in the specific case at hand. 

My Perspective on the Declination Decision in the Newell Case 

Although this hearing is focused on Mr. Perez, this hearing 

is also implicitly examining whether it was improper or 

unprecedented for the Civil Division of the Department of 

Justice to consider broad programmatic interests of the United 

States in deciding not to intervene in the Newell qui tam 

action. I see nothing the least bit untoward or unusual about 

that action. As I have already noted, in my experience, the 

Civil Division's decisions on intervention often take into 

account another agency's broader policy concerns or interests 

outside the four corners of the case. 

It is worth noting that the Department's action in the 

Newell case declining to join the case was neither a 

dismissal of the case nor a settlement of the underlying claims. 

It was not a dismissal because following a declination by the 

Government, pursuant to the False Claims Act, the relator may 

proceed with the False Claims Act on his or her own pursuant to 

the False Claims Act's "private attorney general" provision. 

The declination was not a settlement of the claims because the 

underlying claims of the plaintiff were not released by the 

Government. This is worth emphasizing as the Majority Report 

shows some confusion on this part: the Department of Justice 

did NOT agree with the request of the City of St. Paul to settle 

this case. To the contrary, the Department of Justice allowed 

the case to proceed with the relator litigating on behalf of the 

Government. 

I would also like to comment on the exceptional ethics and 

professionalism of the career management that oversees False 

Claims Act cases within the U.S. Department of Justice. While 

working at the Department, and in the years since, I have been 

repeatedly struck by the exceptional level of integrity and 

extraordinary, selfless dedication to the public interest of the 

career managers. They have not only been apolitical and highly 

ethical in their decision-making; they also have been 

intelligent and careful. These characteristics translate into 

consistently well-reasoned decisions on furthering the public 

interest and on complying with professional responsibility and 
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ethical obligations. I am confident that the actions taken by 

the Civil Division officials with regard to the Newell qui tam 

case, including the factors that were considered in the 

declina tion decision, were fully consistent with the law, as 

well as ethical and professional obligations. 

I also see nothing unusual or improper about career 

managers rejecting the staff's recommendation with regard to a 

significant action in a qui tam case. The career managers in 

the False Claims Act area are particularly experienced in their 

field and closely oversee the work of the line attorneys. They 

have never, in my experience, operated as a "rubber stamp" on 

staff recommendations. They review the relevant considerations 

closely and, when they disagree with the recommendations coming 

from below, they make their own decisions. 

My Perspective on the Merits of the Newell Qui Tam Action 

Given False Claims Act case law, it is somewhat surprising 

to me that the line attorneys handling the Newell qui tam case 

originally recommended intervention in the case. If my law firm 

had been contacted about taking on this case, we would have 

rejected it. Notwithstanding the apparent strong evidence that 

the City of St. Paul engaged in repeated and egregious 

violations of Section 3 of the Housing & Urban Development Act 

of 1986, the qui tam case presents serious litigation risk on a 

number of fronts. 

To be successful, a qui tam plaintiff must establish much 

more than the violation of a regulation. When a False Claims 

Act case is based on the defendant's violation of a regulation, 

a number of courts have held the plaintiff must demonstrate that 

the agency considered compliance with the regulation to be a 

prerequisi te for the defendant to be entitled to receive the 

funds, see, e.g., United States v. Southland Management Company, 

326 F.3d 669, 676 (5th Cir. 2003) (en banc); or, as stated by 

other courts, the regulatory noncompliance must be "material" to 

the government's payment decision. See, e.g., U.S. ex rel. Vigil 

v. Nelnet, 639 F.3d 791, 796 (8 th Cir. 2011); Another important 

factor is whether the defendant "knew" that its' claims were 

false under the regulations and program instructions governing 

the agency program. 
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Significantly, the facts at issue in Southland Management, 

supra - facts which caused the 5th Circuit to uphold the district 

court's summary judgment in favor of the defendants are 

similar to the facts in the Newell case. As in the Newell case, 

the plaintiff alleged in the Southland Management case that the 

defendants, owners of low income housing projects, had submitted 

claims for financial assistance to the U.S. Department of 

Housing & Urban Development (HUD) at a time when they were out 

of compliance with conditions imposed by HUD. In the Southland 

Management case, the recipients of the funds were required to 

keep housing properties that benefitted from HUD assistance in a 

decent, safe and sanitary condition pursuant to the recipients' 

Housing Assistance Payment (FAP) agreement with HUD. As in 

the Newell case, however, HUD learned of the non-compliance and 

elected to work with the defendants to address the problems 

while continuing to provide financial assistance. The Court of 

Appeals consequently found that the facts did not give rise to a 

cause of action under the False Claims Act because: 

[A] ccording to the HAP [Housing Assistance 

Payment] Contract, if the property is not 

decent, safe, and sanitary and HUD chooses 

to work with the Owners to remedy the 

property's condition, the Owners remain 

enti tIed to housing assistance payments 

until HUD provides written notice, 

prescribes a time for corrective action, and 

notifies the Owners that they have failed to 

take the necessary corrective action wi thin 

the specified time period. 

Southland Management, supra, 326 F. 3d at 677. In the 

circumstances present in the case, the Court determined that, 

under the governing contract, compliance with the "decent, safe 

and sanitary" provision was not a prerequisite to a person's 

entitlement to HUD financial assistance and, accordingly, there 

was no valid cause of action under the False Claims Act. 

The "materiality" standard set forth in the 8th Circuit 

Court of Appeals' decision in U.S. ex rei. Vigil, supra, is 

controlling precedent in the Newell case, since the latter case 

is filed in the 8th Circuit. Given the fact that the City of St. 
67 


Insert offset folio 19 here 81282.019

Page 9 of 11 

Paul's noncompliance with Section 3 should have been readily 

apparent to HUD's reviewers, according to the Department of 

Justice line attorneys who handled the case, and given the fact 

that HUD elected to enter into voluntary compliance agreements 

with the City St. Paul, and to continue providing financing, 

even after it apparently learned that the City had been out of 

compliance with Section 3 for many years, there is a significant 

question in this case as to whether HUD truly considered St. 

Paul's compliance with the requirements of Section 3 to be 

material to HUD's payment decisions. 

Indeed, even the original Civil Fraud Section memorandum 

that recommended intervention in the case recognized significant 

litigation risk for the government, including the following 

challenges to establishing that compliance with Section 3 was a 

condition of payment and that the City of St. Paul "knowingly" 

submitted false claims that caused damage to the federal 

government: 

• "HUD will have to admit, and has publicly acknowledged, 

that for a significant period of time it was not focused on 

Section 3 compliance anywhere in the country." 

• "HUD employees conducted annual reviews of St. Paul and 

regularly approved the City's Action Plans and Consolidated 

Annual Performance and Evaluation Reports, and conducted on 

site performance reviews, but did not notice or flag the 

City's Section 3 deficiencies." 

• "Even a cursory examination of the City's practices would 

have revealed the City's non-compliance." 

"The City has already noted that previous federal 

administrations were not concerned with Section 3 (a 

position with support in recent HUD public comments)"; 

• "We will have to admit that the City was failing to comply 

with Section 3 in ways that should have been apparent to 

HUD"; 

• Given the various procedures available to HUD besides 

exclusion from the program to address non-compliance with 

Section 3 requirements, such as time lines and procedures 

for the cure of identified deficiencies, "there is a risk a 

trial court in the Eight Circuit will consider the annual 
68 


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Page 10 of 11 

certifications in this case conditions of participation 

that will not support an FCA claim." 

• Under the governing case law, the Government's damage 

theory admittedly was "aggressive" and the line attorneys 

had not developed an alternative theory. 

These conclusions by the staff - which ironically are set forth 

in the original memorandum recommending intervention - in-andof-themselves would have been more than an adequate basis to 

recommend declination during the ten years during which I 

handled qui tam cases and health care fraud policy matters for 

the United States in the Civil Division of the U.S. Department 

of Justice. 

If this case had come to our firm, we also would have been 

concerned about the potential public disclosure problem. At the 

time this case was filed, the applicable provision of the False 

Claims Act provided that the court lacked jurisdiction over a 

qui tam case if the allegations of fraud had been disclosed 

publicly, unless the relator had "direct and independent 

knowledge" of the allegations and had provided that information 

to the Government before filing his case. My opinion is that 

there were many public disclosures relating to the allegations 

at issue in the case; and, given the fact that the relator was 

not an insider within the City of St. Paul government, it would 

have been unclear to our firm whether a court would consider him 

to have had direct and independent knowledge of the facts 

underlying his lawsuit. Given the additional difficulty of 

establishing liability and significant damages, we would not 

have taken on this case. 

During the Congressional investigation of this matter, 

former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Michael F. Hertz, who 

was widely considered at the time to be the Government's 

preeminent expert on the False Claims Act, was quoted as having 

said that this case "sucks." His opinion does not surprise 

me, given the litigation risks set forth above. 

Learning of the factors that the U.S. Department of Justice 

took into account in deciding whether to intervene in this case 

does not in any fashion deter me or the other members of my law 

firm from bringing qui tam cases. I doubt very much that it 
69 


Insert offset folio 21 here 81282.021

Page 11 of 11 

will deter any of my colleagues in the qui tam bar or potential 

whistleblowers either. Given the legal challenges in the case, 

the equities, and the broader prograrmnatic concerns of HUD and 

the Civil Rights Division, the Department of Justice's ultimate 

decision was fully consistent with its usual policies and 

practices. Moreover, it bears emphasizing that in the Newell 

case, the Department did not do anything to limit the rights of 

the qui tam relator to go forward with the case; the Department 

decided only that it was not in the interest of the Department 

to intervene in the case and pursue it as the primary plaintiff. 

If, under the law, the relator were eligible to pursue the case 

and could prevail on the merits, the Department of Justice did 

not prevent the relator from doing so. 
70 

Mr. JORDAN. The gentleman from Pennsylvania is recognized for 

5 minutes. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Thank you, Attorney Slade, for coming here 

today and sharing your expertise. Unfortunately, you are the only 

qui tam expert we have heard from in the testimony today. We had 

Mr. Newell’s attorney admit candidly that he is not a qui tam expert and a False Claims Act expert. So it is very important that 

we hear from your testimony today. 

Now, we did hear the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. 

Goodlatte, say on the record today that dropping the Newell case 

cost the U.S. Government over $200 million. Did you hear him say 

that? 

Ms. SLADE. I did. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Well, based on your review of the claims and 

the defenses in the Newell case, was this any $200 million case, 

counselor? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, the first point to be made is that there are serious problems to establishing liability in the case, in my view. 

Second, even if liability were to be established, then there would 

be the question of establishing what the damages were. There are 

varying court decisions on how you measure damages in a case like 

this, where you have a service that’s been delivered but regulatory 

noncompliance. 

I find it extremely unlikely that a court would determine single 

damages to be the $85 million figure. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Okay. And so, unlikely that they were talking 

about a $200 million case here. But even beyond that, assume for 

the moment that it were a $200 million case, we are talking about 

money that would be coming from where? The city of St. Paul, is 

that right? 

Ms. SLADE. That’s right. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. And you also heard Mr. DeVincke, Mr. Newell’s lawyer, candidly state on the record that a figure like that 

would have just bankrupted the city of St. Paul. Does that make 

sense to you? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know the particulars of the city’s finances, but 

it sounds like a lot of money for a city to pay. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. In other words, anybody who suggests to the 

public at large that dropping the government’s involvement in the 

Newell case cost the U.S. taxpayers money, we are talking about 

any $1 coming out of that case would have been coming from the 

taxpayers of the city of St. Paul. Am I correct on that? 

Ms. SLADE. That’s right. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. All right. 

Now, in this case, was Mr. Newell a whistleblower? 

Ms. SLADE. I believe your question goes to whether the court had 

jurisdiction over the case in light of the public disclosure bar. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Right. 

Ms. SLADE. And there was, again, serious litigation risk on that 

front for this qui tam plaintiff. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. And the idea is that the public disclosure bar 

means that if you are bringing a False Claims Act case based on 

information that is available to the public at large, you don’t have 

71 

the kind of inside information that makes you a whistleblower. Am 

I getting that right? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, there is an exception to that bar for somebody 

with direct and independent knowledge who is considered an original source. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Right. 

Ms. SLADE. That can be a difficult standard to meet in these 

cases. And, generally, you need to be an insider, although not always. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. So did you hear anything or read anything 

about this case that would have qualified Mr. Newell for that exception? 

Ms. SLADE. I think he had challenges to meeting that standard, 

serious challenges. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. So that if anybody mentions this Newell case 

as if it is a whistleblower case and he is to be the commended for 

coming forth with his secret, inside information, and saving the 

American taxpayers money thereby, there is nothing to that at all, 

is there? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, the points you made, I think, overlap to some 

degree with the problems of liability, because you have a situation 

here where HUD did learn—should have known all along but did 

eventually learn and decided to employ a voluntary compliance 

agreement as the remedy. And the court would not ignore that and 

may well have considered that in connection with the public disclosure decision without articulating it. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Thank you, Ms. Slade. 

Now, another point that you brought up was the discretion of the 

Department of Justice Civil Division to pursue broader policy goals. 

Did you talk about that? 

Ms. SLADE. Yes. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. And that’s the biggest point of all here, is that 

the United States Department of Justice and the people who run 

it do have the unfettered discretion to pursue broad policy goals of 

the administration, do they not? 

Ms. SLADE. That’s right. They are representing the program 

agencies. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. And are you aware of any restriction placed 

upon the Department of Justice from managing its litigation docket 

in a way that will promote its policy and broader goals of the administration? 

Ms. SLADE. I am not. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. That’s the most important answer all day. 

Thank you, counselor. Appreciate it. 

I yield back. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the gentleman. 

The gentleman from Arizona, the chairman of the Constitution 

Committee, is recognized. 

Mr. FRANKS. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Ms. Slade, for being here. 

Ms. Slade, you have testified that you would not have recommended intervening in Mr. Newell’s case if you had reviewed it. 

And, certainly you are entitled to that opinion. 

72 

However, career attorneys at DOJ and HUD did disagree with 

your assessment. On November 22nd, 2011, the Civil Frauds section drafted a formal memo recommending intervention and outlining the reasons. The memo found that, ‘‘The City of St. Paul was 

required to comply with the statutes. Our investigation confirms 

that the City failed to do so.’’ The memo further stated that, ‘‘We 

believe that its certification of Section 3 compliance to obtain HUD 

funds were actually more than reckless and that the City had actual knowledge that they were false.’’ 

Thus, as of November 22nd, 2011, HUD and the Civil Frauds 

section and the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Minnesota all strongly recommended intervention in Mr. Newell’s case. There is no documentation that they viewed the case as marginal or even a close 

call. Indeed, last week, the highest career official at HUD to have 

reviewed the case stated to committee investigators in a transcribed interview that he still stands by his original recommendation that HUD should have recommended intervening in the case. 

So, after reviewing all of the evidence in this matter, it is clear 

that the only factor, at least from my perspective, that the only factor that led to the government declining to intervene in this case 

was Mr. Perez’s desire to have the Supreme Court not hear the 

Magner disparate impact case. 

So my question to you is, while you were an attorney at the Justice Department, did you ever provide evidence to a False Claims 

Act defendant to help that defendant win a motion to dismiss on 

public disclosure bar grounds? 

Ms. SLADE. No. 

Mr. FRANKS. Would it have been appropriate for you to have 

shared such information? 

Ms. SLADE. I haven’t researched that question. I don’t know the 

answer. 

Mr. FRANKS. Okay. You contend, Ms. Slade, that Mr. Newell undermined the False Claims Act because the district court determined that he was not the original source of the allegations in this 

complaint; is that correct? 

Well, either way—— 

Ms. SLADE. Yeah, it was that he had litigation risks, serious litigation risks on that front. 

Mr. FRANKS. Okay. And in United States ex rel. Lisitza v. Johnson & Johnson, the district court determined that your client was 

not the original source of the allegations and that your client’s complaint ‘‘simply adds a sprinkle of factual garnish,’’ to the original— 

to the true original source’s allegations. 

So, you know, there is a dual issue here. It sounds like you are 

guilty of what you’ve accused Mr. Newell of doing. 

Ms. SLADE. You mean—I’m not sure I follow. 

Mr. FRANKS. Well, your client in this stated case was not the 

original source of the allegations, and that your— the court said 

this, that your client’s complaint, ‘‘simply adds a sprinkle of factual 

garnish’’ to the true original source’s allegations. 

In fact, in Mr. Newell’s case, he was the only one pursuing an 

FCA case against the city of St. Paul. In your case, your client was 

kind of attaching himself to the complaint of another whistleblower 

73 

who was already pursuing a case on behalf of the United States. 

So help me understand the conflict here. 

Ms. SLADE. Okay. Well, I will say that we disagree with the 

court’s decision, but that litigation has not yet been resolved, so it 

is not appropriate for me to comment on it. 

Mr. FRANKS. Okay. All right. 

Your written testimony notes that—well, I’m afraid my time has 

expired. Maybe—no, I’m sorry, I’m looking at the wrong button 

here. 

Your written testimony notes that during the congressional investigation of this matter, the former Deputy Assistant Attorney 

General, Michael Hertz, who was widely considered at the time to 

be the government’s preeminent expert on False Claims Act, was 

quoted, to use his term, was quoted as saying this case sucks. You 

add that this, ‘‘opinion does not surprise you.’’ 

During the investigation, Hertz was also quoted as saying, ‘‘It 

looks like buying off St. Paul.’’ Does that surprise you? 

Ms. SLADE. That he would have said that? 

Mr. FRANKS. That he would have said—do you think that he— 

what is your perspective of his perspective? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, I will just state generally that the first comment, I think, is a very important one to focus on because, as I understand it, it was said early on when the intervention memo first 

came up, the memo recommending intervention. Apparently, he 

confided in his deputy, Joyce Branda, that he felt that the case 

sucks. And knowing, having worked with and for Mike for 10 years, 

he was to the point—— 

Mr. FRANKS. It sounds like that’s something he might say. 

Ms. SLADE. And when I asked him—— 

Mr. FRANKS. But when he said, ‘‘looks like buying off St. Paul,’’ 

what is your perspective on that? 

Ms. SLADE. I have no—— 

Mr. FRANKS. Was he confused? 

Ms. SLADE. I wasn’t in that meeting. I can’t be a witness on that 

topic. 

Mr. FRANKS. No, I understand. 

Ms. SLADE. Yeah. 

Mr. FRANKS. All right. Well, thank you, Ms. Slade. 

And, Mr. Chairman, I would just suggest to you that the bottom 

line here is that Mr. Perez intervened in a case, and the result was 

that the people of St. Paul were ill-served and so was this country. 

And, ultimately, it was to save a false process of the court to indicate that disparate impact—that he knew that this was going to be 

in trouble before the court, and I believe that’s why he did it. And 

I think that’s the real issue here. 

And, with that, I yield back. 

Mr. MEADOWS. [Presiding.] I thank the gentleman, and he yields 

back. 

And the chair recognizes the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Conyers. 

Mr. CONYERS. Thank you, Chairman Meadows. 

We welcome your testimony here today. You’ve been very patient 

in waiting your turn. 

74 

And you said that there may be a concern about the potential 

public disclosure problem. Would you describe that a little bit for 

me, please? 

Ms. SLADE. Sure. 

Well, the False Claims Act, at the time when the misconduct in 

this case occurred, the alleged misconduct, had a public disclosure 

provision that provided that a court lacked jurisdiction over a qui 

tam action if it was based on matters that had been publicly disclosed in various forums—the media, litigation, administrative proceedings. 

The exception to that bar is where the whistleblower is an original source of the information, in that he or she has direct and independent knowledge of it and has gone to the government before filing suit. 

Mr. CONYERS. Uh-huh. 

Now, even if a lot of allegations here are true, even if the Newell 

and Ellis cases were appropriate for intervention, even if the Associate Attorney General actively sought to decline intervention in 

these cases in exchange for the city’s withdrawal of Magner, would 

anything illegal or improper have occurred under those circumstances in this case, in your view? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know of any law or rule of ethics that would 

have prohibited the Department of Justice from acting as a single 

entity taking into account and coordinating among its components 

to get the best possible outcome for the United States. 

Mr. CONYERS. Uh-huh. 

Ms. SLADE. It seems to me that that’s what happened here. 

Mr. CONYERS. Thank you. 

Now, in the Department of Justice for a decade or longer, can 

you give me an idea of the professionalism of the Civil Litigation 

Division when these False Claim Act cases arise? 

Ms. SLADE. Sure. I worked closely, as I mentioned, with Michael 

Hertz, who sadly passed away about a year ago, and with Joyce 

Branda, who had always been his number two. The two of them 

not only are extremely capable and experienced—I think Mike 

Hertz handled False Claims Act matters for about 30 years—they 

also have impeccable integrity. They are selfless public servants. 

And I can’t imagine that a final decision on this case would have 

been made in anything but the most ethical fashion. 

Mr. CONYERS. I thank you so much for your response to these 

questions and commend you for being our most effective witness 

here so far. And I—— 

Mr. CONNOLLY. Would my colleague yield? 

Mr. CONYERS. Surely. 

Mr. CONNOLLY. I thank my colleague. 

I just want to say, Ms. Slade, look around. There is obviously a 

reason why you were not put on the second panel. And the press, 

of course, got the story they wanted, so apparently your testimony, 

expert testimony, isn’t really important. 

Most of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that had 

plenty to say in terms of assassinating the character of the pending 

Department of Labor Secretary are all gone, because why would 

they want to hear from an expert? They would rather hear from 

some poor soul and his erstwhile lawyer who has zero experience 

75 

in this endeavor so that they can make a case against an honorable 

man yet again. 

And I say to my colleague, Mr. Nadler, on the Judiciary Committee, I’m very pleased to see you shocked. Unfortunately, it is de 

rigueur here at the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, 

travesty upon travesty in terms of sham hearings to assassinate 

someone’s character or to make some blatant political point rather 

than actually try to get at the truth. 

I apologize to you, Ms. Slade, for the fact that you had to wait 

for the third panel and, of course, you have so little by way of audience here at the committee. 

Mr. CONYERS. Do you yield back to me? 

Mr. CONNOLLY. I’m very pleased to yield back to you, Mr. Conyers. And thank you for letting me have my moment. 

Mr. CONYERS. Well, my pleasure, indeed. 

I want to associate myself with the shock that you ascribe to Mr. 

Nadler. And I thank you very much for your testimony. 

Is there anything you would want to add in this discussion? 

Ms. SLADE. No. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. 

Mr. CONYERS. Thank you. 

I yield back, sir. 

Mr. MEADOWS. I thank the gentleman from Michigan. 

And the chair reserves his time, 5 minutes, for later and will 

defer to the gentleman from Nevada. 

Mr. HORSFORD. Thank you, Chairman Meadows, and to the committee. 

I also want to express my disappointment in how this hearing 

has been conducted. You know, I’m a freshman, but I still read the 

rules, and Rule XIV(c) says that a ranking minority member of the 

full committee shall select a ranking minority member for each 

panel. And that is in the rules. And that was not followed today. 

And now we are on the third panel, and you did not have an opportunity to bring forward the minority’s perspective in the course of 

this debate until now. So that’s unfortunate, and it is clearly politically motivated by the majority side. 

And we also have two chambers. And I didn’t believe that it’s the 

House of Representatives that is involved in the confirmation process, but that’s reserved for the Senate. But apparently some Members of the House believe it’s their job to do everything. 

I would like to ask Ms. Slade here, you know, the Republicans 

have made numerous allegations that there is something improper 

about the Department of Justice considering broader interest of the 

United States in its intervention decision in a False Claims Act 

case. As someone who has been at the Department of Justice and 

represented whistleblowers and is an expert on the False Claims 

Act in general, let me ask you: Is there anything unethical or improper in what the Department of Justice did in this broader interest? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t see anything unethical or improper about considering broader programmatic interests of the client agencies in a 

decision on a qui tam case. 

And I also did want to point out that I believe it may have been 

gratuitous to even reference the fact that the Supreme Court petition for cert was being withdrawn as a factor in the memo recomVerDate Aug 31 2005 10:40 Jun 13, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00081 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\81282.TXT APRIL
76 

mending declination. I think it may well be the case, based on 

what I know of Mr. Hertz’ views on cases and the legal risks in this 

case that the Department of Justice, when the decision got up to 

his level, that they were going to be declining. And he is a career 

manager. 

I think it may well be that they were going to decline the case 

anyway, so that that reference being in there was in there for full 

transparency, that there had been discussion about it, but it was 

not necessary to the decision. 

Mr. HORSFORD. Okay. In fact, as you explain in your written testimony, ‘‘In the False Claims Act, Congress did not dictate to the 

U.S. Department of Justice the criteria it should employ in making 

this intervention determination. Every single court that has looked 

at the issue has emphasized the broad discretion vested in the Department of Justice to decide what is in the best interest of the 

United States in making its enforcement decisions.’’ 

That is the law; is that correct? 

Ms. SLADE. Yes. 

Mr. HORSFORD. And so let’s also indicate what Professor Stephen 

Gillers, who has taught legal ethics at the New York University 

School of Law since 1978, examined the Republicans’ allegations. 

Professor Gillers identified, ‘‘no authority to support the notion that 

such a consideration is unethical.’’ 

And Mr. DeVincke is no longer here, so I can’t ask him the question that I had for him. 

But, Ms. Slade, on February 9th, 2012, a Department of Justice 

memo signed by Tony West authorizing the government to decline 

intervention transparently refers to Magner v. Gallagher as a factor in the Department of Justice’s decision-making. It reads, ‘‘The 

city has indicated that it will dismiss the Gallagher petition, and 

declination here will facilitate the city’s doing so. Under the circumstances, we believe this is another factor weighing in favor of 

declination.’’ 

Ms. Slade, is there any problem that you are aware of in law or 

legal ethics with linking two cases in the interest of a single client? 

Ms. SLADE. No. 

Mr. HORSFORD. So then the entire spectacle that we have had 

here today basically, unfortunately, using Mr. Newell as a pawn— 

you know, I would really take objection to so many Members who 

claim that they are concerned about the interests of low-income 

families. 

When I read about what was happening in St. Paul and with 

some of the landlords here, you literally had them bringing suits 

against the city rather than bringing their units up to code. That’s 

the part of this hearing that was not discussed. One landlord plaintiff was so negligent about addressing a rat infestation that his 

tenant resorted duct-taping rat holes in a failed attempt at containment. 

So if you want to fix something, let’s fix that, and stop making 

false allegations against members of the public service. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thank the gentleman. 

I’d just point out, the declination statement with the reference to 

Magner was put in there even though Mr. Perez said he didn’t 

77 

want it in there because, I mean, it seems obvious to me that the 

career attorneys at Justice said, we’ve got to include that, this is 

what this is all about. That’s why they put it in there. 

Ms. Slade, we understand that you are affiliated with an organization called Taxpayers Against Fraud? 

Ms. SLADE. That’s right. 

Mr. JORDAN. Is that accurate? Are you testifying on behalf of 

Taxpayers Against Fraud today? 

Ms. SLADE. No, I’m not. 

Mr. JORDAN. Why not? Did they tell you not to do that, or did 

you ask if I could testify on their behalf, or—— 

Ms. SLADE. I was asked to testify in my personal capacity. There 

was never any discussion of testifying on—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Are you on the board of that organization? 

Ms. SLADE. I am, yeah. 

Mr. JORDAN. Okay. But they didn’t give you any instructions 

about coming here today? 

Ms. SLADE. No, they did not. 

Mr. JORDAN. Okay. Thank you. 

Let’s put up the—we have—we got this yesterday. I mean, we’ve 

been asking for documents for a long time, but we—— 

Ms. SLADE. Actually, Mr. Jordan, could I correct my statement? 

I did inform Taxpayers Against Fraud staff that I would be testifying. And I did ask a factual question or two of them, and I did 

get back answers to my factual questions. 

However, I contacted them having accepted the invitation to testify already—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Oh, okay. 

Ms. SLADE. —without any communication before I accepted the 

invitation. 

Mr. JORDAN. In that communication that you had with the staff 

people at Taxpayers Against Fraud, which you are a board member 

of, in any of that communication did they tell you, you know what, 

we wish you weren’t testifying on this situation, this case? We wish 

you weren’t going to this hearing and testifying? 

Ms. SLADE. I’m—— 

Mr. JORDAN. It’s a pretty simple question. 

Ms. SLADE. No, I know, I know—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Did they say to do it or not do it? Did they say, you 

know, we wish you really weren’t doing that, we are supposed to 

represent fraud, there is obviously fraud that occurred here, as evidenced by the memo—— 

Ms. SLADE. I believe I got a communication that they thought it 

was a politically motivated investigation and hearing and that I 

shouldn’t expect it to be really about the merits of the issues. 

Mr. JORDAN. What? 

Mr. NADLER. And they were correct, obviously. 

Ms. SLADE. You asked a question. 

Mr. JORDAN. Okay, well, I want to get to the—not a politically 

motivated thing—I want to get to the—this is from U.S. attorneys 

from St. Paul who came to Washington, gave a PowerPoint in front 

of main Justice. And let’s just go the last page, the conclusions. 

‘‘The city has long been aware of its obligation under Section 3. The 

city repeatedly told HUD and others that it was in compliance with 

78 

Section 3. The city has failed to substantially comply with Section 

3.’’ 

So I guess I want to go back with you. In fact, let’s go back to 

the very first slide. So we’ve got this—we’ve got U.S. attorneys 

from St. Paul, from Minnesota, flying to main Justice saying, you 

know, it is a strong case. 

Let’s go back to the very first slide I had up back in—slide 1, if 

we could. 

I want to go back to where I was with Mr. Newell and Mr. 

DeVincke in the last—it is not just Justice or HUD or the folks in 

St. Paul. It’s Justice, the U.S. attorneys in St. Paul, and HUD. Everyone recommends they intervene. 

Slide 2. ‘‘We recommend intervening in this action to assert a 

False Claims action in common law claims against the city.’’ 

Slide 3. You even used this in your testimony. I think this is 

where we talk about ‘‘egregious.’’ Is this the one, the slide that 

talks about ‘‘egregious’’? I guess that’s the next one. ‘‘The city knew 

about its obligation and failed to comply.’’ 

Here, slide 4, they use the same term you used in your testimony. ‘‘This is a particularly egregious example of false certifications.’’ 

So, I mean, this is pretty strong, Ms. Slade. And I know you have 

a background in this and you are the expert and all, but it seems 

to me a reasonable person would look at all of this, U.S. attorneys 

flying to D.C. saying, look, they didn’t comply, here is a PowerPoint 

presentation. Everyone agrees, attorneys in Minnesota, attorneys 

at HUD, attorneys at Justice, everyone agrees, even Ms. Slade, the 

expert, agrees it is egregious and we should proceed. 

And then the one thing that happens, the only thing I can see, 

maybe there is something else, but the one big event that happens 

between all this communication and the sudden change of heart is 

Mr. Perez gets on an airplane, personally flies to St. Paul, and suddenly everything changes. 

And you say, oh, this is common practice. It is common practice 

for everyone to agree, for U.S. attorneys to fly to Washington, make 

a PowerPoint presentation, HUD attorneys, U.S. Attorneys in Minnesota, folks at main Justice, everyone agrees, let’s go forward. In 

fact, they communicated that to Mr. Newell and his counsel: This 

is a strong case, we are going to intervene, we are going to move 

forward. Mr. Newell is excited because he doesn’t want to personally benefit from this; he just wants to help the people in St. Paul. 

And then suddenly things change. And the only thing I can see 

that could cause that is Mr. Perez flying to St. Paul, a closed-door 

meeting. Everything changes after that meeting on February 3rd, 

2012. 

Ms. SLADE. Well, I guess in response I will say that my use of 

the word ‘‘egregious’’ was with respect to the violations of Section 

3, not with respect to violations of the False Claims Act—— 

Mr. JORDAN. No, that’s how they used it, too. 

Ms. SLADE. —and there is a difference. 

Mr. JORDAN. I understand that. 

Ms. SLADE. That’s right. 

Mr. JORDAN. That’s how they used it in the memo. 

Ms. SLADE. Yeah. 

79 

Mr. JORDAN. I can read the memo. 

Ms. SLADE. Right. 

And in terms of everybody being on board, you failed to mention 

a key player, and that is Michael Hertz. It was going to be Michael 

Hertz’ decision and then, above him, the decision of Tony West. 

And Michael Hertz is the first—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Well, then why did Perez have to fly to St. Paul? 

Why didn’t Michael Hertz fly to St. Paul? Why didn’t Tony West? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know the answer to that. 

Mr. JORDAN. Oh, well, you just said those are the guys who made 

the decision. But all I know is the guy who flew to St. Paul, got 

in a closed-door meeting, and then everything changed a week 

later, it wasn’t Michael Hertz or it wasn’t Tony West. It was—oh, 

it was Mr. Perez. Imagine that. 

Ms. SLADE. I think there is a good bit in the record about the 

view—first of all, even the memo recommending intervention identifies some fairly serious possible defenses that could be made by 

the city of St. Paul. 

Mr. JORDAN. Well, they knew—these are—you worked at Justice, 

right? You are one of the—you know these lawyers. They are good, 

smart people. They had 2–1/2 years, and they all said, let’s intervene. Suddenly they didn’t think of that until—oh, I get it. Tom, 

he is so smart, he is the only one who thought about, you know 

what, there’s some problems, and I’m going to get on a plane and 

I’m going to fly to St. Paul and we are going to change everyone’s 

mind. 

Is that how it happened? It probably doesn’t work that way normally at Justice, does it? 

Ms. SLADE. These—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Does it? No, is that the normal practice? One guy 

flies to St. Paul and everything changes? 

Ms. SLADE. I disagree with your characterization of what the 

record indicated—— 

Mr. JORDAN. No, you indicated that there were problems with 

the case, and what I said is, well, then why did everybody? You 

know, you would have a point if two of the three, if the attorneys 

in Minnesota said we want to intervene, and the folks at HUD said 

we want to intervene, but then the career folks at Justice, main 

Justice here in Washington, said, you know what, we don’t think 

so, there’s problems with the case. 

Ms. SLADE. Either—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Or if it was HUD who said, you know what—the 

other two said we want to intervene, and HUD says, no, we don’t 

want to do that, you would have a point. 

But when everybody, every single expert career attorney who 

looks at this says we need to intervene—and the two folks you said 

who make the decision, they don’t show up in the narrative, they 

are not flying to St. Paul. It is only Mr. Perez. 

Ms. SLADE. There are instances from time to time, and I have 

heard of instances in the past year and before, where—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Time to time, and you’ve heard of them. We don’t 

want time to time, we don’t want you’ve heard of them. 

Mr. NADLER. Could you let her answer instead of interrupting 

her all the time, sir? 

80 

Mr. JORDAN. I think, Mr. Nadler, I’m the chairman, and I can 

ask the questions the way I want to ask the questions. 

Mr. NADLER. Let her answer the question instead of interrupting 

her five times in one sentence. 

Mr. JORDAN. I will. I will let her answer. 

Mr. NADLER. You want to be civil, but it’s getting incredible here. 

Mr. JORDAN. Well, you used the term ‘‘civil.’’ You’ve interrupted 

more people in this hearing than any other member of the committee. 

Ms. Slade, you can—Ms. Slade, you can proceed. 

Ms. SLADE. Yeah, I was just going to say, the Deputy Assistant 

Attorney General for the Civil Division does not serve as a rubber 

stamp. The person filling that role does from time to time overrule, 

reject the decisions, the recommendations coming from below and 

make the decision on their own—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Which begs my question again. Why didn’t that person, if it was such a close call, why didn’t that person, who you just 

cited, who from time to time overrules, why didn’t that person get 

on an airplane, fly to St. Paul, meet with the attorneys at St. Paul, 

and cut the deal that way? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, that person was Mike Hertz. My understanding 

is he did say the case sucks when he first saw the memorandum 

seeking authority to intervene. So that was his first opinion of the 

case, and he was really the ultimate—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Still gets to the question. Why didn’t he fly to St. 

Paul, then? If he is the guy making the call, why didn’t he do it? 

Why does Mr. Perez have to step in and do it? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know. 

Mr. JORDAN. Okay. Any further questions for our witness? 

Mr. HORSFORD. Been going to over 2 hours. 

Mr. JORDAN. Mr. Nadler, I thought you had been recognized. I 

had to step out. 

The gentleman from New York is recognized. 

Mr. NADLER. Thank you. 

Ms. Slade, in your written testimony, you comment on the memorandum from all these slides today. And you quote some of what 

the slides show, and then you say, ‘‘These conclusions by the 

staff—which ironically are set forth in the original memorandum 

recommending intervention—in and of themselves would have been 

more than an adequate basis to recommend declination during the 

10 years which I handled qui tam cases and health care fraud policy matters for the United States and Civil Division of the U.S. 

Justice Department,’’ Why? 

Ms. SLADE. There were serious problems with the case in terms 

of establishing whether compliance with the Section 3 regulations 

was a condition of payment, which the courts, most of the courts 

require. There are serious problems with establishing that compliance with those Section 3 requirements was material to HUD’s 

payment decisions. And particularly relevant here is the fact that 

HUD, when it learned of the problem, worked out a Voluntary 

Compliance Agreement. That was their solution, to continue financing the city nonetheless. But the optics of that and the law are not 

favorable for the qui tam plaintiff. 

81 

Mr. NADLER. So these factors are factors which would lead a rational, knowledgeable, experienced attorney to say this isn’t a winning case and we shouldn’t do it. Right? 

Ms. SLADE. That would have been my recommendation at the 

time. 

Mr. NADLER. Thank you. 

Now, secondly, Mr. Jordan, the distinguished gentleman from 

Ohio, showed us a bunch of slides. And he said, well, all the attorneys decided we should,—you know, we have to do this, and Mr. 

Perez overruled it. 

Wasn’t it the case that it was more that these were written by 

rather junior attorneys in the division and that the more senior attorneys, namely Ms. Branda and Mr. Hertz and perhaps others 

routinely overrule more junior attorneys when it comes time to review such things and that they did so in this case and that they 

decided that the case ought to be declined on the merits of the 

case? 

Ms. SLADE. From time to time, the deputy assistant attorney 

general would overrule the recommendations coming from below. 

Mr. NADLER. Not the deputy attorney general. Isn’t Mr. Hertz a 

career attorney? 

Ms. SLADE. He was the deputy assistant attorney general—— 

Mr. NADLER. Okay. So senior career attorneys from time to time 

will overrule junior career attorneys on the merits of whether it 

makes sense as a legal matter to bring a case. 

Ms. SLADE. Of course. 

Mr. NADLER. And did so in this case. 

Ms. SLADE. That is my understanding. 

Mr. NADLER. So the senior attorneys in the division, which division was it—Civil Division, not Mr. Perez’ division—in the Civil Division, they decided that, based on the merits of the case, the case 

should be declined. Correct? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, my understanding that there was reference to 

the Supreme Court on the petition for cert as a factor that was 

stated in the—— 

Mr. NADLER. But they also declined it on the merits of the case. 

Ms. SLADE. They looked at the merits as well. 

Mr. NADLER. Now, let’s assume that that wasn’t the case. Let’s 

assume—well, before I get to that. Do you think it is accurate to 

describe the decision not to intervene in Mr. Newell’s case as hanging him out to dry or leaving legitimate whistleblowers twisting in 

the wind? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t agree with that characterization. 

Mr. NADLER. Because? 

Ms. SLADE. First of all, I think the case has, as I mentioned, serious litigation risks. Secondly, there is the private attorney general 

provision. And if one files a qui tam lawsuit, one can’t expect the 

government to intervene, even if it is meritorious. There may be resources at issue. Other reasons. So one has to be prepared to go 

forward if the facts and the law appear at the time of declination 

to be the same as they were when you first filed your case. 

Mr. NADLER. And the fact that, according to Mr. Newell, the Department of HUD had told him—I think he said that they would 

proceed with this case, that doesn’t bind the Justice Department or 

82 

make it—or give them not the right but the—the right to rely on 

that before it gets to the Justice Department? 

Ms. SLADE. The department of Justice makes the decision on litigation in fraud cases. And the HUD lawyers are not as experienced 

in False Claims Act matters as the Justice Department officials. 

Mr. NADLER. And Senator Grassley expressed his concern that 

whistleblowers would be discouraged from bringing cases because 

of Mr. Newell’s experience. Do you share his concern? 

Ms. SLADE. I do not. I have the greatest respect for Senator 

Grassley, and all he has done for the False Claim Act and whistleblowers. On this particular issue, I beg to differ. I don’t think that 

any competent qui tam attorney looking at the—this matter closely 

would be deterred, nor would their clients. 

Mr. NADLER. So any characterization, which is what we heard all 

day today, of Deputy Attorney General Perez selling out—well, let 

me ask a different question. 

The people of St. Paul were allegedly sold out by attorney—Deputy Attorney General Perez. They were sold out from the possibility 

of having to pay a lot of money in damages out of their tax base. 

I don’t understand that. Could you—if this suit had proceeded, if 

the Federal Government had intervened, had not declined and had 

won, what would have been the results to the citizens of St. Paul? 

Would they have had to pay a lot of money to somebody else? 

Ms. SLADE. Yeah. I would think that it would have come out of 

their taxes, yes. I think that they would have been the ones to suffer. It wasn’t as if the case was against a Boeing or a Pfizer or a 

private entity that had unduly profited as a result of fraud. 

Mr. NADLER. So there is no way of saying that the people of St. 

Paul were injured by not having to defend a case which had they 

lost would have cost them as taxpayers a lot of money. 

Ms. SLADE. I believe that is right. 

Mr. NADLER. Thank you. 

Lastly, let me just ask this. Let’s assume that all this weren’t the 

case. Let’s assume that the case had—that the—that all this 

weren’t the fact. Let’s assume that the—Mr. Newell’s case was 

strong on the law, instead of having many litigation risks. Let’s assume that it was a meritorious case. And it may be a meritorious 

case, but let’s assume there were no problems with the case. And 

that on the merits, the Department of Justice might have—will 

have not declined the case, but that the attorney general or deputy 

attorney general decided as a matter of policy that rather than proceed with the Magner case, it was worth trading off this. Is that 

within the purview of the proper exercise of discretion of the department to make such decisions? And if it made such a decision— 

which, again, it is a hypothetical that this case, in fact, had a lot 

of merits, which it apparently didn’t, and didn’t have a lot of litigation risk, which apparently it does—would there be anything improper, improper, illegal, unethical with the department deciding 

this one is more important than that one? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, I think that gets us back to the case law that 

I mentioned in my written testimony and oral testimony. In the 

context of government motions to dismiss qui tam cases over the 

objections of a whistleblower, which is a far more extreme action 

than merely declining to intervene, in that context, the courts have 

83 

said the Department of Justice has unfettered discretion in making 

that decision. And several courts, several courts of appeals have 

elaborated on that and said, as long as the decision has a rational 

relationship to a legitimate government purpose, the government 

may even dismiss a case—— 

Mr. NADLER. And it is certainly a legitimate government purpose, whether you agree with it or not, to avoid taking something 

to the Supreme Court, which the decision maker thinks may get a 

result that he thinks is damaging to the United States. 

Ms. SLADE. I would agree with that. 

Mr. NADLER. Okay. So, to summarize, to summarize, number 

one, the Newell case—Newell is not a whistleblower, although he 

was a legitimate qui tam complainant because of the public disclosure bar, one; two, his case had major legal problems associated 

with it that could—that could cause and in your experience would 

have caused senior litigation attorneys in the Department of Justice to say we should not get involved in this case; three, the decision to do so was basically made on the merits by senior litigation—by senior people in the Civil Division, namely Mr. Hertz and 

Ms. Branda, concurred in by the assistant attorney general; four, 

that it is common or oftentimes that the senior litigation—that the 

senior attorneys in the department will overrule the junior attorneys who wrote the memos and slides that we have seen; five, that 

there is nothing improper about their doing so; six, that there is 

nothing improper about the attorney general agreeing with them; 

and, seven, that even if that all—if all that weren’t the case—oh, 

seven, that by doing so, they weren’t hurting the citizens of St. 

Paul, who were evading—avoiding, I should say, not evading— 

avoiding thereby a possibility of having to pay higher taxes because 

of a huge penalty against the City; eight, that Mr. Newell, who is 

sympathetic and doing the right thing here nonetheless had no 

right to expect that the Federal Government would intervene in the 

case; and, finally, that even if all this weren’t the case, it is within 

the proper discretion of the Justice Department to decide that it is 

better to have a—to—to not decline—to decline in this case so as 

to get a result in that case or not to get a result in that case if 

that is indeed the tradeoff, and there is nothing immoral or unethical about that. Have I summarized your testimony correctly? 

Ms. SLADE. That was a fairly long question. And I agree with 

most of what you said. I did write notes on a couple areas that I 

would phrase a little differently. With regard to the public disclosure issue, I think Mr. Newell had litigation risk, is the way I 

would put it. I wouldn’t say categorically that he definitely is not 

qualified to bring a False Claims Act case. With regard to the career Department of Justice managers, I would say that from time 

to time, they will object—— 

Mr. NADLER. Overrule. 

Ms. SLADE. —to a recommendation coming from below. I 

wouldn’t say commonly. 

Mr. JORDAN. Can I just pick up there real quickly? Then I will 

yield to Mr. Meadows. 

You said, ‘‘from time to time.’’ How often does that happen? I 

mean, you got unanimous, everyone says let’s intervene, let’s proceed. How often does it happen? Time to time. Mr. Nadler tried to 

84 

get to you confirm his ‘‘routinely.’’ You stuck with ‘‘time to time.’’ 

What does that mean? 10 percent? 80 percent? 

Ms. SLADE. I can’t give you a precise number. I just know I hear 

of it from time to time. 

Mr. JORDAN. Your practice. You worked there. How often was it 

done? 

Ms. SLADE. I worked there 13 years ago. 

Mr. JORDAN. But you worked there. That is why I am asking how 

often is it typically done? 

Ms. SLADE. Very rough guess. Very rough. I mean—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Let me ask you this—— 

Mr. NADLER. Let her answer. 

Mr. JORDAN. I think she is going to say ‘‘time to time’’ again. 

I want to yield to Mr. Meadows, too. 

Mr. NADLER. You said a rough guess, and she was about answer 

your question. 

Mr. JORDAN. Give me the answer, then. Rough guess is what percentage? 

Ms. SLADE. Okay. Well, first of all, the way things work is that 

ordinarily you have a dialogue before you send your memo up. And 

sometimes in that dialogue, you will learn that your supervisors 

aren’t on board or have serious questions about your analysis. So 

sometimes that dialogue will result in your going down a different 

path. 

Mr. JORDAN. Well, we are way past that on this. 

Ms. SLADE. Right. In terms of the actual memo be prepared and 

being—going up the chain and then coming back without approval, 

when I was—it is very hard to place a number on it. But I would 

say maybe 1 out of 30, 1 out of 40. 

Mr. JORDAN. That few a times. 

Ms. SLADE. That is a rough guess. It is a guess, nothing more. 

Mr. JORDAN. When you say ‘‘from time to time,’’ it is like very 

rarely. Right? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know how you—that number is a guess. It 

could be—— 

Mr. JORDAN. One out of 30. 

Ms. SLADE. Yeah. It is a guess. 

Mr. JORDAN. I thought 1 out of 10, 10 percent—like 1 out of 30. 

Ms. SLADE. I could qualify that. I was not—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Mr. Nadler wants to make 1 out of 30 routine. 

Mr. NADLER. She wants to qualify. 

Ms. SLADE. I was not a reviewer at the departments, so I didn’t 

see—— 

Mr. JORDAN. You are the expert and you just said 1 out of 30. 

Mr. Nadler says, that is routine. You say 1 out of 30 is time to 

time. We are now saying—— 

Now let me ask you this way: One out of 30 times that it gets 

overturned, how many of those 1 out of 30 take 3 years? 

Ms. SLADE. Again, 1 out of 30 is a guess. With regard to the—— 

Mr. JORDAN. One out of 30, 3 years of time, effort, and frankly, 

taxpayer money, which Mr. Nadler suddenly cares a lot about—taxpayer money put to use for 3 years they are all pursuing it, and 

it is still overturned. 

Ms. SLADE. Believe it or not—— 

85 

Mr. JORDAN. And that is routine, according to Mr. Nadler. 

Ms. SLADE. —time of filing until the decision on intervention. 

Qui tam actions will—and this time I will use the word ‘‘commonly,’’ they commonly last more than 2, 3, or 4 years before the 

government gets to the point of deciding on intervention. 

Mr. JORDAN. One out of the 30. One out of 30, great. 

Ms. SLADE. Again—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Gentleman from if North Carolina is recognized. 

Ms. SLADE. That is a guess. 

Mr. NADLER. Excuse me. I am still on my time, I think. 

Mr. JORDAN. No, you are not. I gave you 11 minutes. 

Mr. NADLER. You said you will give us 2 and a quarter hours to 

question this witness. 

Mr. JORDAN. I know. I didn’t say I will give all the 2 and a quarter to you. Our guys want to ask questions, too. We did a back and 

forth. Right? Mr. Gohmert hasn’t asked any questions yet, and you 

have had—— 

Mr. GOHMERT. Eleven minutes and 45 seconds. 

Mr. JORDAN. I was being liberal with the time. 

Mr. Meadows, then we will go back on anyone on your side. If 

Mr. Nadler wants more, we will give him more. Then we will go 

to Mr. Gohmert. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, Ms. Slade, for coming to testify. 

And as you mentioned that just a few minutes ago, you said 

there was one key person, Michael Hertz, you know, that would 

make the difference. Did you speak to Michael Hertz personally? 

Ms. SLADE. He passed away a year ago. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Yes, he did. So you didn’t speak to Michael Hertz 

personally. 

Ms. SLADE. Not about this case. 

Mr. MEADOWS. And so, before today, had you ever met Mr. Newell? 

Ms. SLADE. No. 

Mr. MEADOWS. And so were you involved in any discussions with 

Mr. Newell, the Department of Justice, and HUD about this False 

Claims Act? 

Ms. SLADE. No. 

Mr. MEADOWS. So were you involved in any discussions with Mr. 

Newell’s attorney and the Department of Justice, and HUD with 

regards to this False Claims Act? 

Ms. SLADE. No, I was not. 

Mr. MEADOWS. So you have no personal knowledge of this particular case that you come to testify as an expert witness today, 

and you have really no personal knowledge of any of that. 

Ms. SLADE. In preparing my testimony, I did first read all of the 

documents in Appendix I to the majority report. And I gained my 

knowledge about the deliberative process and the facts—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. So when you go to court—you are a litigator, I 

would guess. When you go to court, do you normally interview people before you make a particular assumption? Yes or no. Would you 

normally interview somebody? 

Ms. SLADE. It would depend. 

86 

Mr. MEADOWS. So normally not? I mean, it is a yes or no. Normally, you would or—more than 50 percent of the time would you 

normally have of a conversation with somebody? 

Ms. SLADE. I am unclear on your question. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Let me go on a little bit further. You said that 

it sucks, was the comment by—so how did you know that he said 

that if you hadn’t talked to him? 

Ms. SLADE. In the majority report, I believe appendix—well, in 

one of the reports I read—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. So it was something you read. 

Ms. SLADE. I read that Joyce Branda was interviewed and quoted 

Mr. Hertz as having said that. 

Mr. MEADOWS. I have got a note here that says that—by the 

same Michael Hertz, ‘‘looks like buying off St. Paul.’’ So how would 

you say ‘‘it sucks’’ compared to ‘‘it looks like it’s buying off St. 

Paul’’? How do you reconcile those two? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t think it is difficult at all to reconcile the two 

statements if in fact, you know—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. Well, it sucks that they are buying off St. Paul. 

Ms. SLADE. No. He said the case sucks. So I think it is fully consistent that he thought the case had some fatal flaws in terms of 

legal theories, but at the same time, he was concerned about the 

appearance—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. So you are coming to day to testify as an expert 

witness from a legal theory point of view and not from a personal 

knowledge point of view. 

Because you—it doesn’t sound like you have any personal knowledge of this case, other than what you have read because they got 

you because you 13 years ago worked for the Department of Justice 

in their Civil Division. Is that correct? 

Ms. SLADE. I did work for the Civil Division 13 years ago. That 

is true. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Okay. So that is where your expertise comes from 

is working for the Civil Division of the Department of Justice, and 

that is why you are here today. 

Ms. SLADE. Well, in addition, I have handled exclusively qui tam 

False Claims Act cases during the 13 years since I left the department. 

Mr. MEADOWS. You have represented whistleblowers. 

Ms. SLADE. That is right. 

Mr. MEADOWS. And so do you not see a conflict today where we 

have a whistleblower that is coming in and you have represented 

them and now today you are showing up to discourage that kind 

of activity? Do you not see a conflict there in terms of your mission 

with the, I guess it was Taxpayers Against Fraud? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t see any conflict in providing truthful information—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. Did anybody at Taxpayers Against Fraud see that 

as a conflict? Did anybody? 

Ms. SLADE. Nobody mentioned it to me. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Nobody mentioned that they were concerned 

about you coming here today and what it might appear to the client? 

Ms. SLADE. I am here in my personal capacity. 

87 

Mr. MEADOWS. I understand you are here in your personal. Did 

anybody there say that they were concerned about you doing that 

with regards to how it may be affecting other whistleblowers? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t think so. 

Mr. MEADOWS. You don’t think so. 

Ms. SLADE. I can’t recall that they did. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Let me go on a little bit further, because you 

mentioned about the Civil Division. 

How often is it—I understand that Mr. Perez was not really in 

the Civil Division; he was in the Civil Rights Division, which is a 

different division. How often is it that an assistant attorney general of a different division would intervene in a Civil Division jurisdiction? Is that common? 

Ms. SLADE. I can’t answer that. I don’t know. 

Mr. MEADOWS. In your experience with the Civil Division, how 

many times did it happen when you were there—because, obviously, it is not a normal thing that somebody from the Civil Rights 

Division, who had no jurisdiction over this, would come and intervene. So how many times did that happen when you were there in 

the Civil Division? 

Ms. SLADE. I can’t answer because I wasn’t at the level at which 

those communications took place. 

Mr. MEADOWS. So what level were you at? I mean, they are 

bringing you in here as an expert, so we would think that you 

would be able to talk about all those things with expert testimony. 

So what level were you at? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, for the first 8 years, I was a trial attorney; for 

the last 2 years, I was a Senior Counsel for Health Care Fraud for 

the Civil Division. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Okay. 

Mr. Perez, from what I understand, spoke directly with career attorneys in the Civil Division. Is that normal? Yes or no, is that normal? 

Ms. SLADE. I can’t answer that. Well, what is normal is for Department of Justice—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. Now, I asked you if that was normal. I didn’t ask 

you what is normal; I asked you, is that normal? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know; I didn’t overlap with Mr. Perez. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Okay. Did it ever happen when you were there? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t believe he was there when I was at the department. 

Mr. MEADOWS. No. Did anybody from the Civil Rights Division 

come in and talk to people in the Civil Division and take the lead 

in a particular case and start to negotiate anything? Had that ever 

happened before, Ms. Slade? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know. I wasn’t involved. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Are you aware of any? Yes or no. 

Ms. SLADE. No. 

Mr. MEADOWS. You are aware of none. 

Ms. SLADE. That is right. 

Mr. MEADOWS. All right. So this would unique, then, with your 

recollection of what you are aware of. 

88 

Ms. SLADE. With regard to the cases I handled, which were a 

subset, of course, of the cases handled by the Civil Division, it 

didn’t happen on my cases. 

Mr. MEADOWS. So how many—you are a litigator. How many 

False Claims Acts have you actually been the lead litigator in? 

Ms. SLADE. At the Department of Justice or since? 

Mr. MEADOWS. Yes. 

Ms. SLADE. At the Department of Justice, again, this is a guess. 

Perhaps there were 20 or 30. 

Mr. MEADOWS. That you were the lead litigator. 

Ms. SLADE. Roughly, yes. 

Mr. MEADOWS. So did you normally have contacts with other divisions within the DOJ on a regular basis in terms of that litigation? So would you go with and have them come in and confer with 

you with other departments? 

Ms. SLADE. We communicated frequently with the Criminal Division. 

Mr. MEADOWS. All right. And so, as we see this, how often do you 

think that, as we are looking at this, is—this is here, and I can see 

my time is expiring so I will yield back after this question. 

Now, here we are with St. Paul about to be heard before the Supreme Court. They had—they had filed it. And just a few weeks 

prior to oral arguments, they miraculously decide that they are 

going to withdraw. Now, the fact that the case, this particular case 

was dropped on February the 9th and they withdrew on February 

the 10th, do you not see that as extremely coincidental in terms of 

those time frames, February 9th to February 10th? 

Ms. SLADE. I think the documents and Appendix I speak for 

themselves as to that matter. 

Mr. MEADOWS. I am asking you, not what the documents say. Do 

you not see that that is unbelievably coincidental that those two 

documents or those two things would have happened without some 

kind of outside interference? 

Ms. SLADE. I believe there has been acknowledgment, has there 

not, that there was a linkage between the two events. 

Mr. MEADOWS. So there is a linkage. So who was the causal effect of that linkage? 

Ms. SLADE. Are you asking me to interpret what I read in Appendix I? 

Mr. MEADOWS. Who do you think was the causal effect, Ms. 

Slade? 

Ms. SLADE. I think the Department of Justice—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. So the Department of Justice was the causal effect of why that happened. 

Ms. SLADE. Department of Justice and the City of St. Paul, along 

with—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. Which division? The Civil Division or the Civil 

Rights Division. 

Ms. SLADE. I think the Department of Justice was acting as a 

single entity with input from—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. But don’t they have different jurisdictions, Ms. 

Slade? 

Ms. SLADE. They do. 

Mr. MEADOWS. So whose jurisdiction would it have been? Civil? 

89 

Ms. SLADE. The qui tam cases, of course, were within the jurisdiction of Civil. And the civil rights issues within the—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. But this was not—this was a whistleblower. This 

was not a civil rights issue. The—the Supreme Court was a totally 

separate issue; it wouldn’t have been anything to interfere in. Isn’t 

that correct? 

Ms. SLADE. The components of the Department of Justice are—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. Let me finish up. What personal motivation 

brought you here today? I mean, you say you are here because you 

want to see justice. Is that what it is, Ms. Slade? 

Ms. SLADE. I was asked to testify. And I want the record to 

be—— 

Mr. MEADOWS. So you were asked to testify by who? 

Ms. SLADE. By the minority. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Okay. And your motivation is what? 

Ms. SLADE. To provide truthful information to the best of my 

ability. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Okay. To help taxpayers? 

Ms. SLADE. In the interests of truthfulness in our public discourse. 

Mr. MEADOWS. Thank you. 

I yield back. Thank you for your patience, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. JORDAN. Mr. Cummings and then Mr. Gohmert. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Ms. Slade, let me tell you something. What just 

happened, I don’t want you to be discouraged. What just happened. 

You came here as a lawyer and as someone who was volunteering 

your time to be here. You have represented whistleblowers. And 

you came here to testify with regard to this case what you know. 

We had a gentleman here a few minutes ago, in the first panel, 

where this type of case was his first case. You have talked about 

years and years of experience. And I guess my point is, is that 

when somebody who has represented whistleblowers can come in 

and, as you said, simply coming to give truthful testimony, and it 

just so happens that your opinion is—may not, you know, whistleblowers may not love it, but you are merely telling the truth, to 

me, that is even more credibility that you were even—that you 

would do that. 

So I want to just ask you a few questions. And the reason why 

I said don’t be discouraged is because I want more people like you, 

people who have an expertise, more expertise than many of us, who 

have spent year after year, first of all, in training, in law school, 

and going all through that thing, they are going through school, I 

mean, they are going through various jobs and then ending up 

where you are now. Everything that has happened to you up until 

this moment prepared you for this moment. And we are the beneficiaries of it. And I thank you for saying over and over and over 

again that you simply came here to tell the truth. 

Now, the majority has made the claim that Mr. Perez manipulated the decisionmaking process for intervention in a False Claims 

Act case, resulting in a consensus of the Federal Government to 

switch its recommendation and decline intervention. I would like to 

ask some questions about intervention in DOJ’s decision making 

process. Ms. Slade, are there any requirements in the False Claims 

Act that mandate that the government intervene? 

90 

Ms. SLADE. No, there are not. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Isn’t it true that DOJ intervenes in only 25 percent of False Claims Acts cases reported to the department. Is that 

right? 

Ms. SLADE. That number is approximately correct. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. All right. When you say ‘‘approximately,’’ does 

that mean it is 26? 27? 

Ms. SLADE. Over the years, I have heard 20 percent, I have 

heard 25 percent, I have heard 18 percent. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. But 25 percent is a safe figure. 

Ms. SLADE. That would be the highest figure. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. So most False Claim Act cases are treated no differently than Mr Newell’s. 

Ms. Slade, your testimony described the unfettered discretion 

provided to the department in decisions regarding the False Claim 

Act. Can you explain this unfettered discretion? What does that 

mean? 

Ms. SLADE. It would—the two circuit courts, I believe it is the 

Ninth Circuit and the 10th Circuit that have elaborated on that 

have stated that what it means is that the government needs to 

have a rational relationship between its decision and any legitimate government purpose. And that is really the strictest standard. 

Most courts just say ‘‘unfettered discretion.’’ And it emanates from 

the U.S. constitution, the Take Care Clause, that the executive 

branch is vested with that discretion. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Ms. Slade, are you familiar with the internal 

process of DOJ as far as deciding whether or not to intervene in 

a case. Is that correct? 

Ms. SLADE. That is right. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Given the fact that the department declines to 

intervene in the False Claims Act cases most of the time and the 

many significant weaknesses in Mr. Newell’s case, specifically, does 

it surprise you that the government declined to intervene if Mr. 

Newell’s case? 

Ms. SLADE. It does not surprise me. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. And you have seen no evidence that one DOJ official manipulated that process to get the specific decision in the 

Newell case. Is that right? 

Ms. SLADE. I wouldn’t use the word ‘‘manipulation.’’ I think what 

happened was a consideration of the broader interests of the 

United States in a very thoughtful and coordinated fashion within 

the Department of Justice looking at broader interests and that 

the—it was not a question of manipulation; it was a question of 

trying get to the right result for the government as a whole. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. In fact, you once worked with the career False 

Claims Act experts at the department who worked on the case, 

Mike Hertz and Joyce Branda. Isn’t that correct? 

Ms. SLADE. I did. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Knowing them, what do you have to say about 

the suggestion that they may have been manipulated? 

Ms. SLADE. In my experience, that is highly, highly unlikely. 

They are—again, have great integrity. They are very experienced. 

They are very capable. They can’t be bullied. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. Thank you very much. I see my time is up. 

91 

Mr. MEADOWS. [Presiding.] I thank the gentleman. 

And the chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. 

Gohmert. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Miss 

Slade, for being here today. 

Ms. SLADE. Thank you. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Who is Tony West? 

Ms. SLADE. Tony West is the—well, was at the time the assistant 

attorney general for the Civil Division. 

Mr. GOHMERT. And who is Brian Martinez? 

Ms. SLADE. Brian Martinez. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Yes. A year ago. 

Ms. SLADE. I am not sure. 

Mr. GOHMERT. You are not sure. 

Ms. SLADE. Yeah. I believe I read his name in the materials, but 

I am forgetting—— 

Mr. GOHMERT. How about Stuart Goldberg? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know his position. 

Mr. GOHMERT. And James Cole? 

Ms. SLADE. I don’t know his position. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Or David O’Neill. 

Ms. SLADE. I am sorry, the last name? 

Mr. GOHMERT. David O’Neill. 

Ms. SLADE. I do not know his position. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Okay. Well, you had indicated previously that you 

had reviewed the documents in the case. And so I am sure you are 

familiar with the email that was generated from Brian Martinez 

and that included the report as to the situation with regard to U.S. 

v. City of St. Paul, Minnesota and, in parentheses, involves two different qui tam cases. Are you familiar with that? And it has got 

stuff blotted out. I don’t know if they can be thrown up on the 

screen. 

Ms. SLADE. Yes, I have that in front of me. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Right. And so, well, would you tell us again exactly what this was—this document was part of? I mean, it was 

conveyed by email. But—and that was what was furnished from 

the department of attorney general. So what is this document? 

Ms. SLADE. Are you referencing the document that was the 

memorandum recommending intervention? 

Mr. GOHMERT. No. 

Ms. SLADE. Then I may not have it. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Do you have that where you can put it up on the 

screen? 

This is the recommendation with regard to major cases. And it 

is the list that was the Civil Division significant ongoing affirmative matters as of 3/8/12. 

Ms. SLADE. Yeah, I did see that in the materials. I remember it. 

Mr. GOHMERT. That was set to the deputy attorney general. So 

you are familiar with that, you did see it? 

Ms. SLADE. I remember it. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Apparently, we don’t have it to put up on the 

screen. 

92 

But, in any event, you know, you had mentioned in—that the 

Justice Department has unfettered discretion in some cases on 

what they pursue, what they do not pursue. 

But in this report regarding significant cases that was being sent 

to the deputy attorney general, this reads, specifically, it says, The 

Ellis case alleges that the City of Minneapolis is inappropriately 

condemning and knocking down low-income housing, which has a 

disparate racial impact. Government declined to intervene in Newell and has agreed to decline to intervene in Ellis in exchange for 

defendants’ withdrawal of cert petition in the Gallagher case and, 

parentheses, a civil rights action. 

So you had read that. Correct? 

Ms. SLADE. I saw—I at least saw reference to it in the materials. 

I am not sure if I saw the actual document, but I saw reference 

to in the materials I read in preparation for coming here today. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Right. And this was the document that was being 

sent to the deputy attorney general with regard to the significant 

cases. And you have done an excellent job of testifying about all the 

different considerations that may go into deciding to pursue or not 

pursue a case. But in this case, when a report is going to the deputy attorney general and you are listing many other cases, obviously, you would submit what would you felt like would be the 

most important aspects of the case for the deputy attorney general 

to know. Correct? 

Ms. SLADE. Correct. 

Mr. GOHMERT. And that is why the preparation of this document 

going to the deputy attorney general makes the point, it doesn’t 

discuss all the other things that you have done an excellent job of 

covering; it gets right down to the nitty-gritty and says government 

declined to intervene in Newell and has agreed to decline to intervene in Ellis in exchange for defendants’ withdrawal of cert petition in the Gallagher, the Magner v. Gallagher case. 

That is the report that we were provided that went to the deputy 

attorney general to explain to the deputy attorney general the real 

nuts and bolts of why this decision was made. And it does appear 

to be a quid pro quo from the documents we were provided. And 

so do you have any information that would indicate that on the report of the significant civil cases going to the deputy attorney general, there was in any way an intent to give false information to 

the deputy attorney general about what was the reason, the real 

underlying reason for declining or withdrawal of cert petition in 

the Gallagher case? Do you know of any reason they would try to 

mislead to deputy attorney general? 

Ms. SLADE. I have no information one way or the other on that 

issue. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Thank you. 

Now, I appreciate my friend, Mr. Cummings, pointing out how 

many times you have said, I just came here to tell the truth. 

Obviously, you are an excellent trial lawyer. You have quite a 

reputation, and you are to be commended. It is good when we have 

people that have tried a lot of cases, and we appreciate you subjecting yourself to the laws of having to tell the truth before a congressional body. And so we appreciate you coming up, with those 

93 

penalties hanging over your head for not being truthful, so I know 

you will be. 

How many times—can you have any kind of estimate how many 

times you may have told witnesses, as you prepared them to testify 

in a case that if somebody starts attacking your credibility, just say 

something to the effect, I just came here to tell the truth? 

Ms. SLADE. I have never told a witness that. 

Mr. GOHMERT. You have never ever told a witness that if somebody questions your motivation, I just came to tell the truth? 

Ms. SLADE. I have never—— 

Mr. GOHMERT. Not even words to that effect? 

Ms. SLADE. No, of course, I advise them to tell the truth. But I 

don’t say that you should maintain that they are only there to tell 

to the truth in response to an attack on credibility. No, I have 

never, ever. 

Mr. GOHMERT. How about when you talk to a witness about if 

they are attacked and it is made to look as if the lawyer put words 

in their mouth, because in proper preparation for a witness, an attorney will usually say, You may have questions come up about our 

conversation. You’ve talked to witnesses about that, surely? 

Ms. SLADE. You mean in terms of asserting privilege? 

Mr. GOHMERT. No. I am just talking about talking to a witness 

before they are to testify in a case, because you can’t have a very 

good reputation as a trial attorney if you don’t talk to your witnesses before they go in to testify. Do you not talk to witnesses before going to testify? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, I would counsel my client, of course. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Okay. 

Ms. SLADE. Prepare them for the deposition or whatever the situation is. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Right. And would you prepare them for cross-examination at all? 

Ms. SLADE. Yes. 

Mr. GOHMERT. And you have surely heard on cross-examination, 

a cross-examiner ask, Did you have a conversation with your attorney about this testimony? 

Ms. SLADE. In depositions, I have heard that said, yes. 

Mr. GOHMERT. And have you not told a witness that they can expect a question about, Did you talk to your attorney about this testimony? 

Ms. SLADE. I think what I usually counsel clients is that the 

communications with me are privileged. And of course, they can acknowledge that they have prepared with their counsel. But the 

preparation process is privileged. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Yes. But that doesn’t prevent a question being 

asked with regard to someone who is not a client, who is a witness 

that you have offered, who is being cross-examined. And I got to 

come back. You are saying you never talked to a witness, who is 

not a client, and tell them about what to expect when they come 

in a courtroom. I am shocked that you never talked to anybody but 

a client about what they can expect during cross-examination. Is 

that your serious contention before us? How many cases have you 

tried? 

Ms. SLADE. I think you are mischaracterizing what I—— 

94 

Mr. GOHMERT. Okay. Well, then, you characterize it for me. This 

was what I got to earlier, and you corrected me when I said, ‘‘Have 

you talked to witnesses?’’ And you said, ‘‘No, I’ve talked to clients.’’ 

And so I want to get back to what I—apparently, you have talked 

to witnesses in preparation for their going before a court to testify, 

have you not? 

Ms. SLADE. I have talked to—I am thinking back on my time at 

Department of Justice. I don’t know if you know this but the False 

Claims Act cases, ordinarily, if they are any good and the government intervenes, and then they settle before trial about 90 percent 

of the time or more. 

Mr. GOHMERT. Right. And that is about standard. But so you 

don’t try many cases? 

Ms. SLADE. No. That is right. We don’t. We—— 

Mr. GOHMERT. Okay. How about a deposition? Have you not prepared witnesses for depositions in preparation for cross-examination, who were not your clients? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, while at the Department of Justice, I did prepare client agency employees. But the client agency was our client. 

Mr. GOHMERT. So you have never prepared witnesses who are 

about to go in and testify and talk to them about what to expect 

on cross-examination. 

Ms. SLADE. I may have. Right now, just thinking back, most of 

my focus has been on my qui tam relator clients so—— 

Mr. GOHMERT. So you have never offered a witness in deposition 

for anything? 

Ms. SLADE. Well, when I was with the Department of Justice, we 

were offering witnesses from client agencies and those—— 

Mr. GOHMERT. I am asking you a question, and you are dancing 

around it. Have you ever provided, proffered, offered a witness to 

be—to provide testimony in a deposition? 

Ms. SLADE. Who wasn’t a client, is your question? 

Mr. GOHMERT. Who was not a client. 

Ms. SLADE. Sitting here today, I am tired—it’s 1:30, I haven’t 

had lunch. We’ve been here for about 3 and a half hours—I cannot 

recall. I could get back to you on that and write you a letter with 

the information. 

Mr. GOHMERT. You have no idea if you have ever provided a witness for testimony. Well, I am just blown away that we have somebody up here as an expert that has never even provided a witness 

for a hearing. I am just shocked. I am shocked. I cannot believe. 

And I am sure that if trial lawyers across this country, no matter 

whether plaintiffs or defense attorneys, hear this, they will be 

shocked as well at the kind of people that are handling the kind 

of cases that are this important. I yield back. 

Mr. JORDAN. Thank the gentleman. 

Ms. Slade, if you can stay 5 more minutes, Mr. Nadler gets 5 

more minutes. 

Mr. NADLER. I won’t take time 5 minutes. 

I just want to, first of all, join Mr. Cummings in thanking you 

for you your testimony. And I suppose—thank you for your testimony, period. 

You have been through a lot. Some of it, you shouldn’t have had 

to go through. 

95 

Let me just say you said that you were—you handled a lot of qui 

tam cases when you were with the Department of Justice. 

Ms. SLADE. That is right. 

Mr. NADLER. And since you were with the Department of Justice, 

which I think was the last 13 years, you have also handled a lot 

of qui tam cases representing whistleblowers? 

Ms. SLADE. That is right. 

Mr. NADLER. So you have handled qui tam cases basically for 23 

years. 

Ms. SLADE. That is correct. 

Mr. NADLER. So you are the only witness we have heard today 

who has, aside from Mr. DeVincke, who is working on his first qui 

tam case, with any experience in judging the strength of a qui tam 

case or whether it makes sense or anything else about it. Is that 

correct? On an experience basis; I am not talking about intelligence 

or anything else. 

Ms. SLADE. Yes. 

Mr. NADLER. Okay. I thank you. I yield back. 

Mr. JORDAN. Want to thank Ms. Slade for being here today. 

Hearing is adjourned. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Mr. Chairman, I ask—— 

Mr. JORDAN. I am sorry. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. Unanimous consent to enter into the record 

statements of four legal experts refuting allegations made by the 

majority—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Without objection. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. A letter received yesterday by the committees—— 

Mr. JORDAN. Without objection. We got them. 

Mr. CARTWRIGHT. You got them? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

[Whereupon, at 1:38 p.m., the subcommittees were adjourned.] 

96 


Insert offset folio 22 here 81282.022

tI\WIl£f.,>CFJ./lRM)~· 

STMfOl~((;lOR 

ONE HUNDRED T\NELFTH CONGRESS 

(l[ongrC%5 of toe ZlRniteb ~tllte% 

j1)oll~e of ii\tpl'e~elttiltibc~ 

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM 

2157 RAYBURN HOUSE Of "FleE BUILDING 

W ASHtNGTON, DC 20515-61 43 

February 27, 2012 

The Honorable Christopher B. Coleman 

Mayor 

City of Saint Paul 

390 City Hall 

15 West Kellogg Boulevard 

Saint Paul, MN 55102 

Dear Mayor Coleman: 

~tlJAn { CIJMMIN!l!i. MMlvtAtIn 

IIANKII,G MINDRITY MEMQ( f\ 

On February 10,2012, the City of Saint Paul ("the City") withdrew its petition for 

Supreme Court review of Magner v. Gallagher. 1 The case, involving an impOliant aspect of the 

Fair Housing Ac!/ was set for oral argument on February 29, 20123 In light of news reporls that 

have indicated that the City may have withdrawn the case under pressure from federal entities,' I 

write with questions about the City's decision to forego Supreme Court review. 

The Fair Housing Act prohibits property owners and municipalities from impeding access 

to housing on the basis ohace, color, religion, sex, familial status, or national origin.s In 

assessing violations of the Act, a "disparate impact" analysis has been developed in which a 

violation can be proven if"a facially neutral policy has a significant adverse impact on members 

of a protected minorit1' group.',6 Because a disparate impact claim does not require a showing of 

discriminatory intent, the Deparlment of Justice (DOJ) and the Department of Housing and 

Urban Development (HUD) have embraced this approach.s The Supreme Court, however, has 

I Sec Kevin Dlaz, Sf. Pall! Yanks HOlfsing Fightfi'om High Court, Star Trib. (St. Paul, Minn.), Feb. 10, 20J2. 

'42 U.S.C. §3601 ef seq. 

j Supreme Court of the United States~ October Tenn 20! I, Monthly Argument Calendar for Session beginning 

February 21. 20 \ 2, hnp:llw\\'w.supremecourt,govloraLarguments/argument_ calendars/MonthlyAl'gument 

CaIFEB2012.pdf(1aSl visited Feb. 13,2012). 

'See. e.g., Squeezed in SI. Palll, Wall SI. J., Feb. 12,2012. 

'42 U.S.C. § 3604(a)-(b). 

6 Oti Kaga.lnc. v. S.D. HOlls. Dev. Alllh., 342 FJd 871,883 (8th Cir. 2003). 

'See Hllnfingfon Branch. NAACP v. Town of Hlmf;ngfOn, 844 F.ld 926, 934 (2d Cir. 1988). 

11 See Press Release, Assistant Attorney Genera! Thomas F. Perez Speaks nt the 15th Annual Community 

Reinvestment ACl and Fair Lending Colloquium (Nov. 7, 2011) (speech of DOl Assistant Attorney General for Civil 

Rjghts)i Implementation of the Fair Housing AcCs Discr[minatory Effects Standard, 76 Fed, Reg. 70921 (Nov. J6j 

20) I) (HUDrv)emaklng). 
97 


Insert offset folio 23 here 81282.023

The Honorable Christopher B. Colemen 

February 27, 2012 

PHge 2 of 5 

never expressly addressed the cor.stitulionality 0:3 dispar·ate impact claim in the context of the 

Fair Housing Act.o 

In Magner, several owners of residential rental properties sued the City arguing that its 

enforcement of the municipal hOllsing code violated the Fair Housing Act. '0 Among other 

assertions, the prope11y owners argued that the City violated the Act in that its "aggressive 

enforcement of the HOllsing Code had a disparate impact on racial minorities."" After the City 

won in federal district COUlt, Ihe propel'ty owners appealed to the Court of Appeals [01" the Eighth 

CirclIit, which reversed the lower COLll1's decision, It The City, as the losing pa11y at the court of 

appeals, petitioned the Supreme Court for a writ of certiorari in February 20 ll.u The Court 

agreed to hear the City's appeal, scheduling oral argument for February 29,2012,14 

On February 10,2012, in what has been described as "an extremely rare move," the City 

asked the Supreme COlll1 to dismiss its appeal. IS Although the City maintained that it "likely 

would have won" in the Supreme Court, the City stated that it withdrew the appe<rl because a 

victory would have eviscerated the disparate impact doctrine. 16 According to the Wed! Street 

Journal, pressure from federal entities likely influenced the City'S decision: "The prospect of 

losing this political hammer against banks sent the reds scrambling to stop the St, Paul case. 

Justice, BUD and former Vice President and Minnesota Senator Walter Mondale counseled the 

city, .. against pll1'suing the case.,,'7 

As a result of the City's withdrawal, the Supreme Com! will not have the opportunity to 

evaluate the constitutionality of a disparate impact claim under the Fair Housing Act. 

Accordingly, the legality of federal enforcement actions based on a disparate impact analysis wiJl 

remain uncertain. For these reasons, and to help the Committee better understand why the City 

chose not to exhaust appellate review, please answer the following questions and provide the 

requested documents foJ' the period of May 1,2004., to the present: 

I. Please provide a full ancl complete explanation of the City's decision to withdraw its 

petition for review from the Supreme C01ll1. In your response, please include the names 

of the officials who were involved in making the decision and the date when the decision 

was made. Please provide documents and communications sufficient to suppo,·t your 

l'esponse. 

') See Squeezed in Sf. Poul, SUPI'(I note 4, 

10 See Gallagher v, Magner, 619 F.3d 823,829-30 (8th Cir. 2010). 

II Id. al 833. 

" Id. '1838. 

1.1 See Pelitioner for Wril or Certiorari, Magner v. Gallagher, No.1 0-1 032 (U.S. Feb. 14, 20 II). 

" Supreme Coun of the United States, Oelober Teml 20 II, Monlhl), Argumenl Calendar for Session beginning 

Febrll~ry 21; 2012, hrtp:l/www.sopremecoUl1.gov!oral_ nrgtlments/argUOlcnt_calcndars/MonlhlyArglilnent 

CaIFEB2012.pdf(lasl visited Feb, 13,2012). 

"See Squee,,;' in SI. I'mi/, supra nOle 4. 

,. Press Release, City of Saint Paul Seeks to Dismiss United Stales Supreme Court Case Magner I'S, Gallagher (reb. 

10,2012) [hereinafter "Saint Paul Press Release"]' 

" Squeezed in SI. Paul, slIp"a nole 4. 
98 


Insert offset folio 24 here 81282.024

The Honor<1ble Christopclel' B, Colem811 

Fe~)rtlary 27, 2012 

Page 3 of 5 

2. Please provide a summary accounting of'how much taxpayer funds the Cit)' spent to 

pursue litigation in iv/agne!' II, Gallaghel', from the trial level up to and including 

Supreme Comt review, 

3. In its petition for certiorari, the City appeared to adopt an inconsequential view of 

disparate impact claims, arguing that the Faj'r Housing Act does not support such 

claims,18 In withdrawing its petition, however, the City justified its decision on the basis 

that its suit would eliminate "important and necessary" disparatei:npact claims under the 

Fair Housing Act. 19 

a. Why did the City change its view about the value of disparate impact claims 

under the Fair Housing Act? 

b, Did any federal elltity inf1uence the City to change its position on the value of 

disparate impact claims under the Fair Housing Act? If yes, please explain fully. 

c, Did any fedel'al entity influence the City to withdraw its petition for a writ of 

certiorari in Magner v, Gallagher? If yes, please explain fully, 

d, Does the City believe that use of a disparate impact claim under the Fair Housing 

Act is on solid legal ground? Please, explain fully. 

4. Did any representative of the DepaJ1ment of Justice contact you, City Attorney Sara 

Grewing, or any other City of Saint Paul official about Magner 1', Gallagher? If yes, 

please fully explain these contacts, 

5. Did any representative of the Department of Housing and Urban Development contact 

you, City Attorney Sara Grewing, 01' any other City of Saint Paul official about Magner v, 

Gaf/aghel'? If yes, please fully explain these contacts. 

6. Did any representative of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau contact you, City 

Attorney Sara Grewing, or any other City of Saint Paul official about Magner ". 

Gallagher? If yes, please fully explain these contacts, 

7. Did any representative of any other federal entity contact yO\l, City Attorney Sara 

Grewing, or any other City of Saint Paul official about Magner v. Gallagher? If yes, 

please fully explain Ihese contacts, 

S. Please provide all documents and communications between any and all employees of the 

City of Saint Paul ~md <lny and all employees of the Department of Justice referring or 

relating to the City's litigation in Magner \I. Gallagher, 

t< Petition for Writ OfCel'liornri, supra nOle 13, at to-12. 

19 Saint Paul Press Release, supra note 16, 
99 


Insert offset folio 25 here 81282.025

The Honorable Christopher B, Coleman 

February 27,2012 

Page 4 of5 

9, Please provide all documents and communications bel ween <lny and all employees o[the 

City of Saint Paul and any and all employees of the Depal1ment of Housing and Urban 

Development referring or relaling to the City's litigation in tl4clgner \I, Gallagher, 

10, Please provide all documents and communicalions between any and all employees of the 

City of Saint Paul and any and all employees of the Consumer Financial Protection 

Bureall referring or relating to the City'S litigation in Magner v, Gallagher, 

11, Please provide all documents and communications between any and all employees of thc 

City of Saint Paul and any individual- including, but not limited to, former Vice 

President Walter Mondale - who contacted the City on behalf of a federal entity referring 

or relating to Magner v, Gallagher. 

In addition, the Committee requests that all documents and communications between and 

among City of Saint Paul employees that may reasonably be considered relevant to this 

investigation be preserved, including any documenls and communications sent oj' received using 

a personal (non-City) e-mail account. Intentional obstruction of a congressional investigation is 

a crirne,2o To ensure that a full and complete record of all relevant documents can be produced 

to Congress, please: 

I, Preserve all e-mail, electronic docU111ents, and data ("electronic records") created since 

May I, 2004, related to the City's litigation in Iv/agner v, Gallagher, For the purposes of 

this request, "preserve" means taking reasonable steps to prevent the partial 01' full 

destmction, alteration, testing, deletion, shredding, incineration, wiping, relocation, 

migration, theft, or mutation of electronic records, as well as negligent or intention~1 

handling that would make such records incomplete or inaccessible; 

2, Exercise reasonable effoi'ls to identify and notify former employees, contractors, 

subcontractors, and consultants who may have (or may have had) access to such 

electronic records that they are to be preserved; and 

J, If it is the routine practice of allY City employee, contractor, subcontractor, or consultant 

to destroy or otherwise alte), sLlch electronic records, either halt such practices 01' arrange 

20 18 U,S,C, § 1505 r~ads, in pel1inent part: "Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, 01' by any threatening leller 

or commllnicafion inf1uenceg1 obstructs, 01' in"lpedes or endeavors to innuence1 obslruct, or impede the due and 

proper administration of rhe law under whicll allY pending proceeding is being had before nny deparLlnent or agency 

of Ihe United Slates, or the due and proper exercise of Ihe power of inquiry lInder whicb any inquiry or investigation 

is being had by either House, or any committee ofeilher I'fouse 01' any joint committee Mlhe Congress-Shall be 

fined under this tillej imprisoned not more than 5 yeflrs or) if the orfense involves intemational or domestic terrorism 

(as defined ill section 233 I), imprisoned 110t mOre than 8 years, or both," 18 U,S,C, § 100 I reads, in pertinent part: 

"[Wjhoever, in any matter within thejul'isdiction of the executive, legislative, 01' judicial branch of Ihe Govel11ment 

of the United Slates, knOWingly and willfully-( I) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any Irick, scheme, or device a 

material facl; (2) makes any lnate"i~l1y false, ficlitiollS, 01' fraudulent statement or representation; 0" (3) makes 01' 

uses any fnlse wriling or dowment knowing Ihe same to conlain any materially false, Ocl;t;OIlS, Or fralldulent 

statement 01' entry; shall be fined undel' this rifle, [and] imprisoned lIot 1110re than five years," 
100 


Insert offset folio 26 here 81282.026

The Honorable Christopher B. Colemar. 

February 27, 2012 

Page 5 of 5 

for the preservation of complete and accurate duplicates or copies of such records, 

suitable for production if requested. 

The Committee on Oversight and Govemment RefDlm is the principal oversight 

committee of the House of Representatives and may al "any time" investigate "any matter" as set 

forth in House Rule X. An attachment to this letter provides additional information about 

responding to the Committee's request. 

We request that you provide the requested documents and information as soon as 

possible, but no later than 5:00 p.m. on March 12,20]2. Please directly respond to each question 

and request as numbered herein. When producing documents to the Committee, please deliver 

production sets to the Majority Staff in Room 2157 of the RaybulU House Office Building and 

the Minority Slaffin Room 2471 of the Rayburn House Office Building. The Committee 

prefers, if possible, to receive all documents in electronic format. 

Thank you for your cooperation with this request. lfyOll have any questions, please 

contact David Brewer or Kalelyn Christ of the Committee staff at (202) 225-5074. 

Enclosll1'e 

Sincerely, cA, . /~/ 

P-f-...k -u.v,"// 

Patrick McHenry tJ 

Chairman 

Subcommittee 011 TARP, Financial Services and 

Bailouts of Public and Private Programs 

cc: The Honoi'able Mike Quigley, Ranking Minority Member 

Subcommittee on TARP, Financial Services and Bailouts of Public and Private Programs 
101 


Insert offset folio 27 here 81282.027

DAft!l.tlll'. lSSI\. CAUfOl!N1A ONE HUNDRED n"ELFTH CONGRESS 

D"~i I:':'JfllON.1oIJ01AN/\ 

.I0liN t MICA HDFU(M 

fOOO BIJSSEn PlATTS. f'fNNSYt VANiA 

MICI'O\~~!l lUllNER.OHlt) 

i>A!Illr:J( M.:HEI\;f;V, NORm Cl.ROUNA 

JIM JOllDAN. 01110 

JASON CHMHTZ, IJTAfI 

\!ongres's' of tbc mtuitcb ~tates' 

lh)oltsr of lteprestlltatibr.5 COW"lf M/,eK. flonlr'fI 

;IMIVAL6cRG.M1CHIGA/ii 

J"'.\:~ tM~IO:OflO, OKLAHOM .... 

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f'MJL A uOi:!iAk [l D.r,. ARnCNA 

hAt I, II IAtJO,\(JOIl.ln"I!O 

I','TRICK M((IIAN. r'fNNBVLVJ\t1l1l 

!>.COI r [H~JArH .\15. pl-(>. TI'Nrlf!;;;n 

.!O[ WM SH. U.llNOlS 

80MMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM 

2157 RAYtjUnN HOUSE OFFICE 8IJH.DING 

WASIiINGTON, DC 20515-6143 

lRE'! (\(lWO'i. ~OUTII CAROLINA 

Of.NNI$ A ROSS, flOll,mA 

ffll'lNK C GIJIl'<li\. ;-J~W)lM"?SumE 

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MIKE t:f:LlY f'CNNSYl'-'ANIII 

Lf.lWR~NC~ J (JJlAOY 

STA.ffOUlECiOIl 

The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

Attomey General 

u.s. Department of Justice 

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW 

Washington, DC 20530-0001 

Dear Me, Attorney General: 

April 10, 2012 

fllJM{ L CUMMINGS. MAHvtAoNO 

IlANKU'C; MlNPnlTV MEMI)ER 

EOO.J"I'US TOWN!:. NtW ,'or.1: CII,ROl YN D. MALONEY. ,,~w 'font . (LEANOfl KOlMES Iwn10N. 

mSlR1CTOfC0tljM,IlA 

f>f.NNlS J. xUeINICH, OHIO 

JOtlfo/ F TI(RNEY. MASSACHUSETTS 

WM lI'lCYCLA'f.nliSSOl)f!i 

!:TEt'lI04 I LYIJi:lI, MA!iSACI'U~Ens 

.IrMcoru'll~. TftHIEf>!':H. 

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MW,fOUl(,l('Y,U,UNflfH 

'M,NNY ~ Oi .... \.". \lL\}.!\~19 

lIHuet I. IlRA([Y.IO'N.\ 

PErfIl WElCH, vt<IlMmn 

.JOIIN A YAM.IU'rI1. KClnuu:v 

CIHHSTOf'HUi s t.<UlIPtIY, CONNECllCUT 

JACKIE SI'E1F.ft CAt!FURNJA 

The Committee 011 Oversight and Government Reform is examining the circumstances 

surroullding the City of Saint Paul's (the City) decision to withdraw its petition for celiiorari in 

Magner v. Gallagher. I According to multiple reports, the Department of Justice (DOJ) 

influenced the City to withdraw its appeal, despite the City'S belief that it would likely have been 

successful before the Court. 2 Given the DOJ's alleged involvement in tbis decision, I write to 

request your cooperation with this inquiry. 

In November 2011, the Supreme Court granted the City's petition for a writ ofcel1iorari 

to consider the legality of disparate impact claims under the Fair Housing Act3 The appeal was 

scheduled for oral argument on February 29, 2012.4 On February 10,2012, in what has been _ 

described as "an extremely rare move," the City asked the Supreme Court to dismiss its appeal.' 

Although the City maintained that it "likely would have won" in the Supreme Court, the City 

implied that it withdrew the appeal because a victory would have eviscerated the disparate 

impact doctrine under the Fair Housing Act.6 

Seyeral reports have suggested that the DOJ pressured the City to withdraw its appeal. 

As the Wall Street Journal expJained, "[tJlle prospect of losing [the disparate impact doctrine] 

I Magner v. Gallagher, 132 S. Ct. 1306 (Feb. 14,2012) (dismissing the writ of certiorari). 

'See, e.g., Mr. Perez Works the Phones;-w;;rrm:J.,Mar. 27,2012; Joan Biskupic, Analysis: Righls Groups Tly (a 

Avoid US High COllrt Setback, Reuters, Mar. 2, 2012; Frederick Melo, HolV Obama Adlllinisiration Gal SI. Paul 10 

Pllli Landlo/·d S1Iil Qut afSupreme Cm"." Pioneer Press (SainI Paul, Minn.), Feb. 14,2012; Squeezed in SI. Paul, 

Wall S1. J., Feb. 12,2012. 

) See Magner v. Gallagher, 132 S. CL 546 (Nov. 7,2011) (granting City's petition for a writ of celiiorari); Petition 

for Writ ofCel1iorari, Magnen. Gallagher, No. 10-1032 (U.S. Feb. 14,2011). 

, Supreme Cou.rt of the United States, October Tenn 20 I j, Monthly Argument Calendar for Session begillning 

February 21, 20 [2, hNp:llwww.supremecollrt.gov/oral._argumentslargument_ ca lendars/MonthlyArgumellt 

Ca1FEB2012.pdf (iasl visited Feb. I J, 2012). 

5 See Squeezed in SI. I'lIlIl, supra note 2. 

'Press Release, City of Saint Paul Seeks to Dismiss United Slates Supreme Court Case Magner vs. Gallagher (Feb, 

10,2012) [hereinafter "Saint Paul Press Release"/. 
102 


Insert offset folio 28 here 81282.028

T,e Ho;oorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

April 10, 2012 

Page 2 of 4 

sent (he fcds scrambling to stop the St. P8ul case. Justice, HUD and former Vice President and 

Minnesota Senator Walter Mond8le counseled tbe city. . against pursuing the case.") The 

JOllrnallater elaborated on the extent offederal influence on tile City's decision, reporting that 

Thomas Perez, the Assistant At10rney General for the Civil Rights Division, asked the City to 

withdraw its appeal.s Another source reported that.Mr. Perez personally lobbied Mayor 

Christopher Coleman and City Attorney Sara Grewing to withdraw the appeal by emphasizing 

the "use of the disparate-impact theory in mortgage cases.,,9 The City has acknowledged to the 

Committee that the DOJ influenced its decision to some extent, stilting that "comments" by the 

DO] and ather entities helped to lead to the withdrawal of the pe1itiol1. lo 

1 am deeply troubled by the possibility that the DOJ pressured the City to withdraw its 

appeal - which the City believed it would win because the DOJ feared the Supreme C01l11'S 

ullima\e adjudication of the issue. As you kno'v\', the mission statement of the DOJ is, in parI, "to 

ensure fair and impartial administration of justice for all Americans,,,l1 These allegations, if 

true, contravene the DOl's commitment to the fair and impartial administration of justice and 

undermine the integrity of the Department. 

For these reasons, I ask that you answer the folJowing questions and provide tbe 

requested documents fol' the period May I, 2004, to the present: 

I. Please provide a full and complete explanation of the DO],s interactions with the City of 

Saint Paul related to Magner v, Gallagher. In your response, please include the name and 

titles of those officials who communicated directly or indirectly with the City, as well as 

the dates and methods of these communications. 

2. Please provide a full and complete explanation of(lle DOJ's interactions with the other 

parties to Magner v. Gallagher. In your response, please include the name and titles of 

those officials who communicated directly or indirectly witn these parties, as well as the 

dates and methods of these communications. 

3. Please provide a full and complete explanation of the DOl's interactions with federal 

government entities or other pat1ies interested in Magner v. Gallagher. In yom response, 

please include the name and titles of those officials who communicated directly or 

indirectly with these enli(ies and individuals, as well as the dates and methods of these 

communications. 

4. Please explain why the DO'! chose to innuence the City of Saint Paul to withdraw its 

appeal. Tn addition, pleased answer the following questions: 

1 Squeezed in Sr, Pou/j slipra note 2, 

, "vir. Percz Works Ihe Phones, s1Ipr(l note 2. 

o Biskupic, SlIPI'(! nole 2. 

10 leiter from Mark R. PRolena, Dickstein Shapiro LLP, to Patrick McHenry, Comm, on Oversight a.ld Gov't 

Reform 2 (Mar. 26,2012). 

" U.S. Dep't oT Justice, Abolll DOJ, 0111' Mi5$ion Statement, hftp:II\\'\\'II'.juslice.gov/ubouUabollLhlml (last visited 

Mar. 30, 2012). 
103 


Insert offset folio 29 here 81282.029

The t1onor<1ble Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

April 10, 2012 

Page 3 of4 

a, Which DOJ officials were consulted in deliberations leading to the DOJ's 

decision to influence the City to withdraw its appeal') 

b. Wbich DOJ officials ultimately approved the DOrs decision to inlluence the City 

to w:thdJ'aw its appeal? 

e, Does the DOJ believe that a victory by the City at the Supreme COLIrt in Magner 

v, Gallagher would have eliminated the disparate impact doctrine under the Fair 

HOLlsing Act? Please explain, 

d, Did the DOJ offer anything to the City 10 entice the City to withdraw its appeal? 

Please explain, 

5, Were you aware of the DOl's actions in intluencing the City to withdraw its appeal in 

Magner \" Gallagher? Please explain and provide a dctailed account of the limeline of 

yO\lr involvement. 

6, If if is (he case that the DO] influenced the City to withdraw its appeal in ivlag!?!!!/' \I. 

Ga/hlgher, what actions do you intend to take to ensure that the DO) does not 

inappropriately influence private litigation in the future? 

7, Aside from formally entering a case as an intervenor, how often does the 001 informally 

intercede in litigation to which the United States is not II party? Please explain and 

answer the following questions: 

a. Please provide a detailed listing of the number of cases in which tile DO.l has 

inJ(lrmally swayed the result, including the case captions, thejmisdictions, the 

subject matter, and the result of the DOrs actions. 

b, What tactics does the DOJ employ to informally influence a private litigant to 

accept the Dors preferred outcome or (0 sway lhe course of litigation? 

c. Does the DOJ regularly pressure or influence private litigants to forgo their right 

of final appeal in the Supreme Court to preserve a favored doctrine of law? 

Please explain, 

8, Please provide all decision memoranda, coordination sheets, and other deliberative 

material Llsed by the DOJ to arrive at its decision to intluence the City to withdraw its 

appeal in iv!agner II, Gallagher, 

9. Please provide all documents and communications between any and all employees of the 

DOJand any and all employees of the City of Saint Paul referring or relating 10 ivJagner 

\I, Gallagher, ' 
104 


Insert offset folio 30 here 81282.030

The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

April 10,2012 

Page 4 of 4 

10, Please provide all documents and communications between any and all employees of the 

DOl and any and all employees of the Department of Housing and Urban Development 

referring or relating to Magner v. Gallagher. 

I I, Please provide all documents and communications between any and all employees of the 

DOl and any and all employees of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau referring or 

relating to Magner v, Gallagher, 

12, Please provide all documents and communications between any and all employees of the 

DOJ and any other individual- including, but not limited to, former Vice President 

Waltcr Mondale - referring or relating to Magner v. Gallagher, 

The Committee on Ovcrsight and Government Reform is the principal oversight 

committee of the House of Representatives and may at "any time" investigate "any matter" as set 

forlh in House Rule X. An attachment to this letter provides additional information about 

responding to the Committee's request 

We request that you provide the requested documents and infOlmation as soon as 

possible, but no later than 5:00 p.m, on April 24, 2012, Please directly respond to each question 

and request as numbered herein, When producing documents to the Committee, please deliver 

production sets to the Majority Staff in Room 2157 of the Rayburn House Office Building and 

the Minority Staff in Room 2471 of the Rayburn House Office Building. The Committee 

prefers, if possible, to receive aU documents in electronic format. 

Thank you for your cooperation with this request. If you have any questions, please 

contact David Brewer or Kalelyn Christ of the Conunittee staffat (202) 225-5074, 

Enclosure 

Sincerely, 

Subcommittee on TARP, Financial Services and 

Bailouts of Public and Private Programs 

cc: The Honorable Mike Quigley, Ranking Minority Member 

Subcommittee on TARP, Financial Services and Bailouts of Public and Private Programs 
105 


Insert offset folio 31 here 81282.031

LAMAn S SMITH, rlll<~~ 

CHAinMAN 

~,JAMtir. SENSHJflR.fNNI fI, ,iR ,Wj"r~",·>," 

HOWArID C09,(, Not1h CU/(Il1na 

ElTOJ. GALlt:GlY,C .. llkmdll 

8{IBGOOlll.AHf,Vltij'"'' 

DANiEl E, I.\JNGHE~. C3U/<>rnl. 

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS 

SiEVE CHAllOT, ONo 

DA!lIll!LlE lSSACslUQmlQ 

MIKE PENCE, I~.ii~n~ 

.I RANfWFClRBr:S,Vi'~;ni8 

SrI.:VlKING,I(I'o'Ja 

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t(lUI£ GOltMEnT, TQ>rIl~ 

JIM,IORPAN,(1!llc 

TfOI'OE, T"~M' 

JII.SONC,lIAr(c:Z.UIDf'o 

TIM GfUfflN, Ar'~U~~K 

Q:ongress of the ~Jlitcd ~tatcs 

t'lOllBC of'RcprCSClltlltillCS 

TOM MAIIINa, aeJ\J\ivl~~l!i~ 

TfWY GOWOY, 50ulh C~.allM 

O!:'NNlS flOSS, nm;da 

!lANDY AnAMr,. f1()'io~ 

BEN QUAyt F.;, A';«IM 

MAI1K r\MDUEL N""~rls 

The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

Attorney General 

U.S. Department of Justice 

Washington, D.C. 20530 

Dear Attorney Genel'al Holder: 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

2138 RAYSUHN HOUSE OFncE BUILD!NG 

WASHING .... ON, DC 2Q515-6216 

12Q21 225 39"1 tIUp:flw\-vw,hou,'l(),lIov!jud,claty 

September 24, 2012 

JOliN CON'tHI!" JIl" MI~ldgan 

MN:KI.'-JGM!-MBSR 

HOWARf) t. FlFRMAN,C~lirt;,,,),, 

J~nHaLl) NAtlLUl, N(}'./II ym~ 

ROBERTC, "3{)fJ!IV· sc:orr,Vlrll!m8 

ME~VIN L WATT, N()rlb (";MPl'nt 

Zot LOHmrN, C$IlI!'ll<>in 

SfIEUlJACK$ONI E'f,Tn"u 

MAX/Nt WAn:ns:, Cali/orilla 

STEVE COHEN. Te,,!>Ca~e<l 

I1ENflV C "J lANK" JOHNSON. JR., (lIW1i1i11 

PEDROfl, PltflLUI:;I,?vo.(If;)Il.I~ .. 

MI"~ OLlIGI.EY,IIJin'ili. 

Jl!DYCHU,ClIlilmllla 

ItODF.urctJ,florilla 

UNO/l T SANC"!E7.C~I1I(lf1"" 

JA!\EDPOLl5,c.:n/O(ndo 

After repeated inquiries from the Committee on the Judiciary and the Committee on 

Oversight and Government Reform, the Department of Justice (Department) briefed staff about 

its involvement in the decision of the City of St. Paul, Minnesota, to withdraw its petition for 

certiorari in Magner v. Gallagher. l We were shocked to learn during this briefing and in 

subsequent document examination that Assistant Attorney General Tom Perez, over the 

objections of career Justice Department attorneys, enticed the City to drop its lawsuit that Mr. 

Perez did not want decided by the Supreme Court, This quid pro quo arrangement potentially 

cost U.S. taxpayers over $180 million. As such, we write to ask that you produce all documents 

to the Committees and make Department officials available for transcribed interviews. 

On February 10,2012, the City ofSt. Paul-abruptly abandoned a case before the U.S. 

Supreme Court that observers said it was poised to win.2 Slumlords had sued the city to prevent 

it from enforcing its housing code on the grounds that it disproportionately decreased the amount 

of housing available to minorities? The City al'gued that the Fair Housing Act of 1968 (FHA) 

prohibits only intentional discrimination, not neutral practices like code enforcement that happen 

to impact particular groups disproportionately.4 

Mr. Perez fretted that a decision in the City's favor would dry up the massive mortgage 

lending settlements his Division was obtaining by suing banks for housing discrimination based 

on disparate effects rather than any proof of intent to discriminate.s Accordingly, as documents 

reviewed by Committee staff show, he orchestrated a deal to induce the City to drop its Supreme 

I Committees staff briefing with Monica Ramirez, U.S. Dcp't of Justice (Aug. 16,2012); see Magner v. GaUagher, 

132 S. Ct. 1306 (Feb. 14, 20 12) (dismissing writ of certiorari). 

'See Kevin Diaz, SI. Paul Yanks Housing Fightfrom High Court, St.r Trib. (St. Paul, Minn.), Feb. 10,2012. 

'Id 

'See Brieffo, the Petitioners, Magner v. GaUagher, No. 10·1032 (U.S. Dec. 22, 2011). 

5 Mr. Perez Works the Phones, W.1l St. J., Mar. 27, 2012. 
106 


Insert offset folio 32 here 81282.032

The Honorable Eric H. Holder, JI. 

September 24,2012 

Page 2 

Court challenge. In exchange for St. Paul dropping its case before the high· court, the Justice 

Department declined to intervene in an unrelated False Claims Act (PCA) case that had the 

potential to return over 8180 million in damages to the U.S. treasury, 

Many observers thought the Supreme Court was poised to hold that the FHA does not 

permit claims based on disparate impact when it agreed, in late 2011, to hear Magner v. 

Gallagher6 However, on the eve of oral argument, St. Paul dropped the case. News accounts 

attributed the reversal to calls from the Administration and former Senator Walter Mondale who 

called the decision "courage[ous].,,7 However, material reviewed by the Committees reveals the 

decision was in fact the result of a dubious bargain brokered by Mr. Perez in which the 

Department agreed, over the objections of career attorneys, not to join an unrelated fraud lawsuit 

against the City in exchange for the City's dropping its Magner appeal. 

In early October, 2011, career attorneys from the Department's Civil Fraud Section 

recommended that the United States join a lawsuit called Newell, brought by a private 

whistleblower charging that St. Paul violated the Federal FeA. 8 The suit alleged that the City 

falsely certified it was using federal funds to create jobs for low income workers of all races, 

when in fact it was only focused on employing minorities. 9 The memo authored by career 

Department attorneys characterized the City'S behavior as a "particularly egregious example" of 

false certifications. On October 7, 2011, the Department of Housing and Urban Development 

(HUD) concurred in the recommendation as did the U.S. Attorney's office in Minnesota. 

In the meantime, City attorneys and MI'. Perez began discussing a quid pl'o quo. The 

record over the next five months paints the picture of Mr. Perez's commitment to closing the 

deal over the objections of career attorneys in the Civil Division who he does not even control. 

When the head of the Civil Division, Tony West, objected that HUD formally requested 

intervention, Mr. Perez replied he was "confident [their] position has chan~ed." Mr. West was 

not aware that Mr. Perez had already worked out an agreement with HUD. 0 

As Mr. Perez labored to force a reversal, emails show career Department attorneys 

confused and frustrated. They "cannot imagine" what the Gallagher case has to do with Newell. 

"Weirdness" they call it. "This is ridiculous .... have no control .... Why m'e higher level 

people making phone calls." Notes from a meeting say it "looks like buying off St. Paul." As 

the deal closes, St. Paul's lawyers push fo1' even more. Panicked attorneys email superiors to tell 

Mr. Perez to "make no more promises."!! 

6 Holding Mr. Holder Accountable, Wall st. J., Apr. 13,2012. 

7 Frederick Melo, How Oboma Administration Gal St. Paul,lo Pull Landlord Suit oul a/Supreme Court, Pioneer 

Press (St. Paul, Minn.), Feb. 14,2012; Squeezed in St. Paul, Wall St. 1., Feb. 12,2012. 

, See J/alse Claims Act Complaint and Demand for Jury Trial, United States ex rei. Newell v. City of Saint Paul, 

Clv. No, 09·1177 (D. Minn. tiled May 19,2009). 

9Id. 

In Committees staff review of documents from the Department of Justice (Aug, 20, 2012), 

II Committees staff review of documents from the Department of Justice (Aug. 20, 2012), 
107 


Insert offset folio 33 here 81282.033

The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

September 24,2012 

Page 3 

Meanwhile, Mr. Perez ordered career attorneys to prepare a revised memo recommending 

that the Department not intervene in Newell. He further instructed them not to discuss the 

Magner case in explaining the reversal. The attorneys objected and included a discussion of 

Magner anyway. On February 9, 2012, Mr. West signed the revised memo. On February 10, 

2012, St. Paul requested that the Supreme Court dismiss its appeal. 12 

Reviewing the emails and voice messages, it is clear many of the attorneys involved felt 

there was an inappropriate quality to the quid pro quo. If the United States had intervened in the 

Newell suit, taxpayers may have recovered as much as $186 million from the City. 13 Instead, 

without the government's intervention, the case was soon dismissed on grounds that would have 

been inapplicable had the government joined the suit. 

At a briefing for Committee staff, Department officials conceded that the quid pro quo is 

unprecedenied. 14 According to the Department officials, Deputy Assistant Attorney General 

Thomas Pen'eJli instructed Mr. West that the decision on whether to intervene in Newell should 

be decided "on the merits" alone and not on the City's offer to withdraw its appeal in Magner. ll 

Apparently those instructions were not followed. It is unclear why the instructions of Mr. West's 

and Mr. Perez's superior were not followed. 

One of thc fcatures of this quid pro quo, distinguishing it from a standard settlement or 

plea deal, was that it obstructed rather than furthered the ends of justice. It was possible only 

because Mr: Perez knew the disparate impact theory he was using to bring fair lending cases was 

poised to be overturned by the Supreme Comt. So he bargained away a valid case of fraud 

against American taxpayers in order to shield a questionable legal theory from Supreme Court 

scrutiny in order to keep on using it. 

This quid pro quo raises numerous legal and ethical questions of significant public 

interest. In order to fully determine why the Department authorized this unusual bargain, we ask 

that you prQduce to the Committees all documents and communications reviewed by Committee 

staff In camera. Further, we ask for all ethics and 'legal opinions related to this quid pro quo 

arrangement issued by any Department component, including but not limited to the Office of 

Professional Responsibility, Office of Legal Counsel, Office of the Deputy Attorney General, 

Civil Rights Division, or the Office of the Attorney General. Please produce these materials to 

the Committees by September 28,2012. 

Additionally, because evidence reviewed by the Committees references critical 

conversations of which there is no documentary record, we ask that you malce available the 

following Department officials for transcribed interviews: Tom Perez, Tony West, B. Todd 

Jones, and Chad A. Blumenfield. Please make these officials available by September 28, 2012. 

Congress and the public have a right to know the full rationale for the Department's decision to 

cast aside the careful analysis of career Department attorneys on the merits of a case with tens of 

12 See Kevin Diaz, St. Paul Yanks Housing Fighf/rom High Court, Star Trib. (51. Paul, Minn.), Feb. 10,2012. 

"See 31 U.S.C. § 3729(a) (allowing for damages three times the amount orlbe fraud). 

"Committees staff briefing with M6nica Ramirez, U.S. Dep't of Justice (Aug. 16,2012). ~U . 
108 


Insert offset folio 34 here 81282.034

The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

September 24, 2012 

Page 4 

millions in taxpayer dollars at stake in order to get a litigant to drop a completely unrelated case. 

We appreciate your assistance with this matter. 

Please contact Holt Lackey or Daniel Huff of the House Committee on the Judiciary or 

David Brewer or Katelyn Christ of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform 

no'later than September 28, 2012, to schedule the transcribed interviews. Thank you for your 

attention to this matter. 

Sincerely, 

Lamar Smith 

Chairman 

Committee· on the Judiciary 

'4liJ¥to~ Chairman 

Subcommittee on TARP, Financial Services 

and Bailouts of Public and Private Programs 

Committee on Oversight and Government 

Refonn 

~ Chairman 

Committee on OVersight and Government 

Refolm 

~,/f __ __ t!._ 

RankingMemb~~ Committee on the Judiciary 

United States Senate 

cc: The Hon. John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Member, Committee on the Judiciary 

The Hon. Elijah Cummings, Ranking Member, Committee on Oversight and Government 

Reform 

The Hon. Mike Quigley, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on TARP, Financial Services 

and Bailouts of Public and Private Programs 

The Hon. Patrick J. Leahy, Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate 
109 


Insert offset folio 35 here 81282.035

~ongn55 of tfJe m:niteb ~tate5 

The Honorable Thomas E. Perez 

Assistant Attorney General 

Civil Rights Division 

United States Department of Justice 

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW 

Washington, DC 20530 

Dear Mr. Perez: 

mmImJ!Jillg"toll, 1.9<.\: 20515 

March 27, 20J 3 

Thank you again for your appearing before the Committees for a transcribed interview' on 

March 22, 2013, about the quid pro quo between the Department ofJustice and the City of St. 

Paul, Minnesota. We write to seek additional clarification about a response you gave during the 

transcribed interview. 

During the transcribed interview, you. were asked whether you used your personal email 

address to communicate about matters related to the qUid pro quo with the City ofSt. Paul. You 

responded "I don't recall whether I did or didn't.,,1 Later you stated "[ don't have any 

recollection of having communicated via personal email on - on this matter.,,2 

A subsequent review of documents produced to the Committees indicates thaI you 

corresponded with a representative of the City of St. Paul using a verizon.net 'account, which is a 

non-official email account on at least one occasion. On December 10, 2011, you em ailed David 

Lillehaug, outside counsel for the City, ITol):1 this email account, writing: 

I am in the office Monday and then out the rest of the week. TfyouT clients want 

to stop in Monday late aftemoon, early evening, I am happy to do my best to 

answer questions, and assuage at least some concems.3 

A copy of the email is also enclosed with this letter. The email was not produced by the 

Department in response to the Committees' inquiry. 

We are troubled by this revelation that additional responsive documents may exist in 

personal email account(s).This omission prevents the Committees fTom fully assessing your 

actions and those of other Department officials in this quid pro quo. The omission also 

potentially implicates federal records requirements for conducting official business of the 

Depaliment. Your use of a non-official email account to conduct government business raises the 

prospect that records - as defined by the Federal Records Act - were not captured by official 

govenunent email archiving systems. It also creates difficulties in fulfilling the Department's 

obligations under the Freedom of InfOlmation Act and other litigation requests. 

I Transcribed Interview of Thomas E. Perez (Mar. 22, 2013). 

l fd. 

, Email from Tom Perez to Oavid Lillehaug (Dec. 10,20! I). 

MINreDON RF.CYClEO PAPER 
110 


Insert offset folio 36 here 81282.036

The Honorable Thomas E. Perez 

March 27, 2013 

Page 2 

ACGordi:1g[y, we request that you produce all emails sent to, copied to, received by, or 

sent from your verizon.net account or any other non-official email account from October 8, 

2009, through the present referring or relating to yow' official responsibilities at the Department 

of Justice. Please produce any additional (esponsive doctllTlents to' the Committees by 5:00 p.m. 

on Wednesday, Apri] 3, 2013. Thank you for your attention to this matter. 

~ 

_\_Q};;;::::)'~'lY' ~--=-~_ 

lWbrut Good/ott, 

Chairman Chainnan 

Committee on Oversight Committee on the Judiciary 

and Government Refonn United States House of Representatives 

United States House 0 

~~~ Charles E. Grassley 

Ranking Member 

Committee on the Judiciary 

United States Senate 

Enclosure 

cc: The Honorable Elijah E. CtllTlmings, Ranking Member 

Committee on Oversight and Government Refonn 

United States House of Representatives 

The Honorable John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Member 

Committee on the judiciary 

United States House of Representatives 

The Honorable Patrick 1. Leahy, Chairman 

Committee on the Judiciary 

United States Senate 
111 


Insert offset folio 37 here 81282.037

REDACTED· 

From: Tom Perez f @verlzon,natJ. 

SaM: SatlJrday, DeGsmber 10, 2011 10:03 PM 

To: L111ehaug, David 

Subject: Re: From CAO-Copy4 

David 

I am In the offioe Monday and than out the rast of the week, If your 

clients warit 10 slop In Mon~ay lala afternoon, early evening·, I am Mappy to do my bs.st to answer queatiohS, and MSlJaga at lea.st some 

COAcarns. 

tom 

On Dec 10;201'1, 812:49 PM" lilieheug, DavId wrote: . 

" " ,,--- O~gsage ,--- ;,. From: ~c\"stpaul.mn,u& [malito S>cl.lltpaul,mn,usj 

,. Sell!: Saturday, December 10, 201108:50 AM ;> \'0: Llilehaug, David 

> SubJect; From OAO..copy4 

> 

;> <SKMBT _C85011121 01 449Q,pdf> 

Confidential Treatment Requested SPAO0000159 
112 


Insert offset folio 38 here 81282.038

(lCongre%s of tue mlniteb fetates 

~m!\Jil1rrtoll. 1:V1!Z 20515 

The Honorable Thomas E. Perez 

Assistant Attorney General 

Civil Rights Division 

United States Department of Justice 

950 Pennsylvania Avenue. NW 

Washington. DC 20530 

Dear Mr. Perez: 

April 4, 2013 

On March 27. 2013, we joined Sonate Judiciary Committee Ranking Member Grassley in 

writing to you to request tbat you produce all emails sent to, copied to, received by, or sent from 

your verizon.net or other llon-ofIicial email accounts referring or relating to your ofIicial 

responsibilitics at the Depnrlmellt of Justice. We l1lilde tbis request after becoming aware that 

you had communicated witb the City of 81. Paul about official Department business ii'om your 

personal verizoll.nct email account. You have not responded to our request. 

The revelation that you used a personal email account to conduct oftlcial Department 

business is extremely disconcerting. Your use ofa nOIl-officinl email account to conciuct official 

governmcnt business fl11stl'atcs the goals of transparency laws, such as the Federal Records Aet 

and the Freedom of Information Act. It also hinders the fun understanding of yom actions ill the 

quid pro quo with the City of'S!. Paul. !fyou do not produce all responsive documents to the 

Committees by 5:00 p.m. Oil Monday, April 8,2013, tllO Committee on Oversight and 

Government Reform will consider the use of compulsory process. 

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. 

Sincerely, 

Cbailman 

Committee on Oversight and Govemment 

Reform 

Chairman 

. Committee on the Judiciary 

Plum"o ON RECVClEO PAPER 
113 


Insert offset folio 39 here 81282.039

T:1C Honorable Thomas E, Perez 

April 4, 2013 

PBge 2 

cc: The Honorable Ch,lries E. Grassley, Ranking Minority Member 

Committee on Ihe Judiciary, United States Senate 

The Honorable Elijah CUll1mings, Ranking Minority Member 

Committee on Oversight and Government Reform 

The Honorable John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Minority Member 

Committee on the Judiciary 

The Honorable Patrick J. Leahy, Chairman, 

COl11mittee 011 the Judiciary, United States Senate 
114 


Insert offset folio 48 here 81282.048

(jARREll f. 15SA. CAU"OflNIA ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

«ongrcs£i of tbe ~niteb ~tatf5 

ji,oU5C of l~tprescl1tati\.1cs 

COWMITIEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNlwENT REFORM 

2157 RAYBURt-: HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING 

WASH\NSTON. DC 205i5-6143 

May 6, 2013 

The Honorable Thomas E. Perez 

Assistant Attorney General 

Civil Rights Division 

United States Department of Justice 

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW 

Washington, DC 20530 

Dear Mr. Perez: 

U:~AK € CUMt.'(r-,GS, MARYlAN:J 

'lAN~!Nf; w'!NOfl'-Y ~f"'SER 

I am in receipt of a letter from Peter J. Kadzik, Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney 

General for Legislative Affairs at the Department of Justice, about your use of a personal, nonofficial e-mail account to conduct official Department business. J Your continued and blatant 

disregard for a duly issued Congressional subpoena is extremely disconcerting, especially 

coming from one of the Nation's highest law-enforcement officers sworn to uphold the 

Constitution. I sincerely hope that you will reconsider your obstruction of this investigation and 

fully produce all documents responsive to the SUbpoena. 

The need for robust legislative oversight stems from the very concept of a representative 

democracy. The Supreme Court has clearly explained that "[t]he power of Congress to conduct 

investigations is inherent in the legislative process. That power is broad. It encompasses 

inquiries concerning the administration of existing laws, as well as proposed or possibly needed 

statutes. It comprehends probes into departments of the Federal Government to expose 

corruption, inefficiency or waste.,,2 The Committee on Oversight and Government Refonm has a 

special mandate to conduct comprehensive oversight at all levels of government. As the chief 

investigative body of the House, the Oversight Committee may investigate "any matter" at "any 

time" pursuant to House Rule X.3 

Mr. Kadzik's letter states that the Department believes that it has "satisfied the legitimate 

oversight interest regarding Mr. Perez's emails.,,4 Please allow me to assure you that this is not 

the case. It is not the prerogative of the Department of Justice to detenmine the interests and 

expectations of the United States Congress. Neither Mr. Kadzik nor you are in a position to 

adequately deteJmine whether your actions have satisfied any interest of the Congress, let alone 

whether that interest is "legitimate." 

I See Letter from Peter 1. Kadzik, U.S. Dep't of Justice, to Darrell Issa, H. Comm. on Oversight & Gov't Reform 

(May 3, 2013). 

, Watkins v. United States, 354 U.S. 178, 187 (1957). 

) Rules of the House of Representatives, Rule X, cl. 4(c)(2). 

, Letter from Peter J. Kadzik, U.S. Dep't of Justice, to Darrell Issa, H. Comm. on Oversight & GOV'! Reform (May 

3,2013). 
115 


Insert offset folio 49 here 81282.049

The Honorable Thomas E. Perez 

May 6, 2013 

Page 2 

The recent revelation by the Department's Office of Legislative Affairs that you have 

violated the Federal Records Act on 35 occasions only reinforces the need for the Committee to 

possess all responsive documents as directed by the terms of the subpoena. In his letter of April 

17,2013, Mr. Kadzik affirmatively represented to the Committee that "[oJnly 34 

communications had not previously been sent to or from Department email accounts."s This 

statement, it turns out, was inaccurate. Department staff informed the Committee on Friday, 

May 3,2013, that there was an additional personal e-mail exchange between you and former 

Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm that was not captured by Department recording systems. 

This omission, coupled with the Department's troubling history of misleading Congress, hurts 

the Department's credibiliry in asserting that you have complied with the Federal Records Act. 

Therefore, to accurately and fully assess your compliance with federal law, the Committee 

requires that you produce all responsive documents. 

You have not produced a single e-mail as required by the plain terms of the subpoena 

issued to you on April 10,2013. Until you produce all responsive e-mail communications, 

including at least the 1,200 e-mails that the Department has identified as responsive, you will 

continue to be noncompliant with the subpoena. As a Senate-confirmed officer of the United 

States and the President's nominee to lead an executive department of the government, I would 

expect more from you. 

Thank you for your attention to this matter. 

cc: The Honorable Bob Goodlatte, Chairman 

Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. House of Representatives 

The Honorable Charles E. Grassley, Ranking Member 

Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate 

The Honorable Elijah E. Cummings, Ranking Member 

Coinmittee on Oversight and Government Reform 

The Honorable John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Member 

Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. House of Representatives 

The Honorable Patrick 1. Leahy, Chairman 

Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate 

'Letter from Peter J. Kadzik, U.s. Dep't of Justice, to Darrell Issa, H. Comm. On Oversight & Gov't Reform CApr. 

17,20]3). 
116 


Insert offset folio 40 here 81282.040

COHEN MILSTEIN 

May 6, 2013 

Via Email Oltty 

The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chairman 

Subcommittee all Economic Growth, Job 

Creation & Regulatot'Y Affairs Committee on 

Oversight and Government Refonn 

2157 Rayburn House Office Dullding 

Washington, DC 20515 

The Honorable Matt Cartwright, Ranking 

Minority Member Subcommittee on Economic 

Growth, Job Creation & Regulatory Affairs 

Committee on Oversight and Oovemment 

Reform 

2471 Rayburn House Office Building 

Washington, D.C, 20515 

The Honorable Trent Fmnks, Chairman. 

Suboommittee on the Constitution and Civil 

Justice Conunittee on the Judiciary 

2138 Rayburn House Offioe Duilding 

Washington, DC 20515 

The Honorable Jel'old Nadler, Ranking 

Minority Member Stlbcommittee Oll the 

Constitution and Civil Justice Committee 011 

the Judicial'Y 

B·351 Raybul11 HOllse Office Building 

Washington, DC 20515 

Gary L. Azol'sky 

Jeanne A. Markey 

(267) 479·5700 

gazol'sky@cohenmilstein.com 

jmal'key@cohemnilstein.com 

Cohen MII.leln Sell ... & Toll PlLe 171'/ Arch Stre.t Suite 3610 Phll.dolphla, PA 19108 

t: 267 20'1 3475 I; 267 207 3401 www.cohenmllstoln.com 

Wa.hlnglon D.C, New York Philadelphia Chicago Florid. 
117 


Insert offset folio 41 here 81282.041

May 6, 2013 

Page 2 

Denr CIJairmen Jordan and Franks and Ranking Members Cartwright and Nadler: 

The undersigned nrc partners and co-chairs of the Whistleblower/False Claims Act 

Pmcti.ce Group at Cohen Milstein Sellers & Toll, PLLC. Fol' over tell years, we llltve 

assiduously represented whistleblowers in legul actions brought pursuant the federal False 

Claims Act, 31 U.S.C. §§ 3729, et seq., and its state coullt~!'parts in federal and .tate courts 

thl'Oughout the country. We regularly engage in thc cvaluation of thc viubitily of potential claims 

under those statutes tl11d work with relators to combat iI-aud against the government. We have 

been asked by committee staff to offer our opinion regarding the effect of tho Department of 

Jtlstice's deoision to decline to intervene in-the-qui tam casesofUniled Stales exrel. Newell 1). 

Citya/s!' Paul and Uniled Sf(/Ie.~ (!,X rei. Ellis v. City (?f Mirrneapolis, e/ Cli. What follows is that 

opinion. 

On May 19, 2009, Relator Frederick Newell filed his qui tam action undor the federal 

False Claims Act agaimlt the City of St. Paul in the United States Distl'ict Court for the District of 

Minnesota. On February 9, 2012, the Department of Justice advised thc court that it declined to 

intervene in the case. On March 12, 2012, Mr. Newell filOO an amended complaint in ('espOllse 

to which the City of St. Paul filed a motion to dismiss based, in part, on the Public Disclosure 

Bal'. 

At the time that Mr. Newell filed his initial complaint in his action, the False Claims Act 

provided njurisdictional hal' to a relator's qui tam action commonly l'Cfcrl'ed to as the Public 

Disclosure Bar. Subsequently amended and rendered a non-jurisdictional basis tbr dismissal in 

the Patient Pl'Otectiol1 and Affordable Cnre Act of201 0, this section, 31 U.S.C. § 3730(e)(4), 

provided as follows: 

(A) No court shall have jm'isdictiol1 ovcr all action under this sectioll 

based upon the public disclosure of allegations or tcansactions in a 

criminal, civil, or administrative hem'ing, in a congressional, 

administrative, or Government Accounting Office report, hearing, audit, or 

llwestigalion, or from the news media, unless the Attorney General or the 

person bringing tho action is an original source of the infol1l1atiol1. 

(B) For purposes of this paragraph, "original somce" means an individual 

who has direct and indepeudeut knowledge of the infol'll1ation on which 

the allegations arc based and has volulltarily provided the information to 

Ute Government before filing 1111 action under this section which is based 

on the information. 

On July 20, 2012, the cmut granted St. Paul's motion to dis.miss, finding that it lacked 

sul:!.jeet matter jl.ltisdiction over Mr. Newell's netion becallse of manifold public disclosures of 

his allegations predating the filing of his complaint and becausc be was not an original source of 

the infol1natioll on which the allegations were based. Mr. Newell has appealed the dismissal of 
118 


Insert offset folio 42 here 81282.042

May 6, 2013 

Page 3 

[11 

his case and his appeal is currently pending before (he United States COllrt of Appeals for the 8th 

Circuit. 

On Fcbruary 18,20 J I, Relators Andrew Ellis, Harriet Ellis aud Michael Blodgett filed 

their qui tam action under the fedel'al False Claims Act against, among others, the Cities of 

Minneapolis and St. Paul in the United Slates District Court for the District of Minnesota. On 

June 18, 2012, tile Department of 111stice filed a Notice of Election to Decline Intervention. The 

defendants in that case subsequently tIled mol ions to dismiss tbe Relators' complnints, which the 

conrt denied without pt·e;iudicc. That case remains pending as of the dute of this letter. 

The effect ofthe government's dccisiollllOI to intervene in these two qui lam cases is 

cenu'ai to the issues presently being considered by your subcommittees. Indeed, it is important 

to understand that, contrary to concltlsory statements set forth in the Congressional Committees' 

Joint Staff Report of April 15, 2013, the decision by the Department of Justice not to intel'vene in 

Mr. Newell's case did not ullowthe City ofSl. Paul to move for dismissal oHhe case "on 

grounds that would have otherwise beell unavallable if the Departmcnt had intervened." (JOhlt 

Staff Report, p. 58). In fact, the same motion would have been available to the City wheth!:lr or 

not the government had intervened in the casco In Rockwell Inti. COI'!'. V. United Slates ex rei. 

Slone, 549 U.S. 457 (2007), the United Stales Supreme Court rejected the argument that 

government intervention provides jurisdiction !o a Relator who is not an original source. Even 

hlld the government intervened, Mr. Newell would have been vulnerable to the exact same public 

disclosure judsdictimllll bar. 

Likewise, in declining to interve11c in Mr. Newell's qui lam nction, the Department of 

Justiee did not "give up the opportunity to recove!' as much as $200 l11lUion." (Joint Staff 

Report, p. 4). A declination of intervention has never been recognized by any court as 

tantamount to the telininatioll of the government's light to pursue the claim asserted in the 

action. In fact, the federnl False Claims Act specifically pl'ovides that ifthe government injtially 

elects not to proceed with the action, it may intervene nt a later dale upon a showing of good 

cause. 31 U.S.C. § 3730(0)(3). The government can decline to intervcne in one action and, after 

tbat e01111)Jaint is dismissed, decide to inierve!le in a su.bsequently filed action. Or tbe 

government can institute and pursue its 0\'1'11 action under the False Claims Act. Moreover, the 

dismissal of Mr. Newell's complaint does not affect the government's ability 10 pursue the same 

claims itself. Thus, in declining to intervenc in the Newcll find Ellis actions, the government is 

not foreclosed ITom pursuing the claims that Mr. Newell could 110 longer himself pnrsue or to 

intervene at n later date in the Ellis action, nor is it foreclosed from pursuing remedies Ihnt might 

be available under Ilny other statutory or regulatory provisions. In fact, in declining to intervene 

in these actions, it "gave up" no rights or opportunities whatsoever. 

We trust thnt the foregoing sheds light 011 the effect ofthe government's decision notto 

intervene in the Newell and Ellis qui lam nctions and that this letter is helpful to the work of your 

committees. 
119 


Insert offset folio 43 here 81282.043

May 6, 2013 

Page 4 

Respectfully submitted, 

~m'l 
120 


Insert offset folio 44 here 81282.044

Ben Vernia 

Tel. (202) 349-4053 

Fax (866) 572-6728 

bvernia@vernialaw.com 

........ T 

The Honorable Representative Jim Jordan 

Chairman 

Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Job 

Creation & Regulatory Affairs 

Committee on Oversight and Government 

Reform 

2157 Rayburn House Office Building 

Washington, D.C. 20515 

The Honorable Representative Matt Cartwright 

Ranking Minority Member 

Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Job 

Creation & Regulatory Affairs 

Committee on Oversight and Government 

Reform 

2471 Rayburn House Office Building 

Washington, D.C. 20515 

THE VERNIA LAW FIRM 

May 6,2013 

l455 Pennsylvankl Avenue, NW 

Sllite 400 

Washington D.C. 20004 

www.vernialaw.com 

The Honorable Representative Trent Franks 

Chairman 

Subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil 

Justice 

Committee on the Judiciary 

2138 Rayburn House Office Building 

Washington, D.C. 20515 

The Honorable Representative Jerold Nadler 

Ranking Minority Member 

Subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil 

Justice 

Committee on the Judiciary 

B-351 Rayburn House Office Building 

Washington, D.C. 20515 

Re: Declination by the United States Department of Justice in 

United Staies ex reI. Newell v. City of St. Paul, Civil No. 09-SC-001l77 (D.Minn.) 

Dear Messrs. Jordan, Cartwright, Franks, and Nadler: 

r am writing in advance of the Committee's May 7, 2013 hearing regarding the Department of 

Justice's declination of the False Claims Act qui tam cases, United States ex reI. Newell v. City of St. Paul, 

Minnesota, Civil No. 09-SC-00l177 (D.Minn.), and United States ex reI. Ellis v. City of St. Paul, Civil No. 11-

CV-0416 (D.Minn.), to provide my comments on certain of the conclusions reached in the Joint Staff 

Report, DOf's Quid Pro Quo with 51. Paul: How Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez Manipulated Justice 

and Ignored the Rule of Law (April 15, 2013). I appreciate the opportunity to address the Committee. 

For most of my twenty years practicing law, I have handled investigations and cases brought 

under the False Claims Act, 31 U.S.c. §§ 3729, et seq, Early in my career, I served for eight years as a Trial 

Attorney in the Fraud Section of the Commercial Litigation Branch of the Department of Justice's Civil 

Division. In that capacity, I handled dozens of False Claims Act cases involving numerous federal 

agencies, induding the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). r left the Fraud Section 

to be a prosecutor in the Criminal Division where, in 2005 I received a John Marshall Award from the 

Department ofJustice, and the National Exploited Children's Award from the National Center for 

Missing and Exploited Children. 

That same year, I joined Covington & Burling Ll.P, initially focusing on the defense of False 

Claims Act investigations and suits. I started my own firm in 2009, in part to have the flexibility of 
121 


Insert offset folio 45 here 81282.045

representing whistleblower clients as well as defendants. I have filed numerous qui tam suits, and I am 

now litigating some of those, including a major case against a long-term care pharmacy for prescriptions 

reimbursed by Medicare Part D. In addition to my work on these cases, I have made presentations on the 

False Claims Act and related statutes, and I write the best-read legal blog on the topic, 

www.falsedaimscounsel.com. 

I have had no professional involvement in the Newell Dr Ellis cases, and have not spoken about 

them with any of the persons described in the Joint Staff Report. I have, however, reviewed that Report, 

its attached documents, the Democratic Staffs Report on the same topic (April 14, 2013), and certain of 

the documents publicly available on the District Court for the District of Minnesota' s PACER website. 

As one of the few attorneys in private practice with significant Department of Justice experience 

who represents both defendants and whistleblowers, I read these documents with great interest. With all 

due respect to the Joint Staff, however, I feel compelled to write to take issue with certain of their factual 

conclusions. I will limit my comments to those that I feel are critical to assessing the conduct of 

Department of Justice officials involved in these cases. 

Merits of the Newell case 

Because the documents do not treat the Ellis case as a significant factor in the Depaitment's 

decision-making, I have not undertaken to analyze the merits of that matter. Let me also preface my 

remarks by stating that I do not intend this leiter to disparage Mr. Newell or his counsel. The Department 

ofJustice appears to have largely corroborated his allegations and his qui tam complaint is well-drafted. 

I disagree, however, with the Joint Staff's conclusion that "The Department of Justice Sacrificed a 

Strong Case Alleging a 'Particularly Egregious Example of Fraud." See Joint Staff Report at 37. Instead, I 

believe that the documents evidence significant bases for skepticism by Department of Justice officials. 

The Joint Staff's conclusion rests in large part on its rejection of statements by Department of 

Justice supervisors that whether or not to intervene in Newell was a "close caIl," and its reliance instead 

on earlier positions in support of intervention taken by the trial attorney and others assigned to the case. 

But the draft memorandum urging intervention acknowledges several significant potential problems 

with the case - problems that clearly rebut the conclusion that the case was a "strong" one, as the Joint 

Staff asserts. 

Newell's most prominent weakness was the potential difficulty in proving that St Paul's noncompliance with Section 3 was material to the decision of HUD to make grant payments. The trial 

attorney handling the case candidly admitted that there was litigation risk regarding materiality: 

2 

The City will argue that even if HUD did not say it explicitly, HUD'ssilence over many 

years is tadt approval. We will have to admit that the City was failing to comply with Section 3 in 

ways that should have been apparent to HUD. The City did not send its HUD 60002 forms each 

year. Ht:.JD never objected to this failure. The City will argue that HUD was so unconcerned with 

Secti0113 compliance that the City's failure to comply did not affect, or could not have affected 

HUD's decision to pay. 

The City will argue that HUD's failure to monitor its Section 3 compliance was consistent 

with HUD's general lack of oversight of Section 3 during the relevant period. The city has already 

noted that previous federal administrations were not concerned with Section 3 

(a pOSition with support in recent HUD comments), and that it is unfair to require a City to make 

boilerplate certification each year, ignore the City's non-compliance year-after-year, and then 
122 


Insert offset folio 46 here 81282.046

seek FCA relief when a new administration comes in that is more concerned with compliance 

with Section 3. 

Draft Intervention Memo at 7. Although the trial attorney was optimistic that these arguments could be 

overcome, there can be no doubt that significant concerns about proving materiality of the City's 

noncompliance were evident long before the alleged quid pro quo, 

Reliability of the Draft Intervention Memorandum's Damages Calculation 

I also respectfully disagree with the Joint Staff's assertion that the Department of Justice's 

decision to intervene in the case cost taxpayers a significant opportunity to recover over $200 million, See 

Joint Staff Report at 61, This, too, Significantly overstates the strength of Newell, 

The draft intervention memo very briefly describes only one damages theory, which the trial 

attorney characterizes as "aggressive": that the damages under the False Claims Act were the entire 

amount of the Section 3 construction project grants (which was some unknown fraction of the overall $86 

million in HUD grants), That "aggressive" theory is an unsettled area of law, however, and the Joint 

Staff's reliance on it in calculating the cost to taxpayers of declining to intervene in the suit is dubious, 

For much of the False Claims Acfs ISO-year history, computing damages was l'elatively 

straightforward: the fact-finder calculated the difference between what the Government actually paid and 

the value of the goods or services it received, See United States v, Bomstein, 423 U,S, 303, 316 n, 13 (1976), 

When a third-party, and not the Government is the intended recipient of the tangible benefit from the 

outlay of federal funds, this approach arguably breaks down, The traditional 'benefit-of-the-bargain" 

approach is strained further when the false claim relates not to quality of the goods or services received 

by the third-party, but to the fund recipienfs satisfaction of some other condition intended to benefit 

society more generally, The Newell case falls into this category: the city receives Section 3 funds to 

improve housing, and allegedly false claims relate to its compliance with a condition unrelated to the 

quaJity of that work 

The Courts have struggled with these issues, and four Courts of Appeals - for the Second, I 

Fifth,' Seventh,' and Ninth' Circuits - have chosen to follow the "aggressive" approach the trial attorney 

described, The District of Columbias and Third' Circuits instead continue to employ the "benefit-of-thebargain" approach, which might result in a very low damages calculation in a case such as Newell, I am 

not aware of any controlling precedent on this issue in the Eighth Circuit, in whose jurisdiction Newell 

was filed, 

Given the unsettled nature of this area and the impreciSion in the Draft Intervention 

Memorandum's damages ligure, $86 million represented only a theoretical upper limit on the 

Government's damages for 51. Paul's alleged violations, The Department of Justice trial attorney 

acknowledged the limitations of this approach, writing in the Draft rntervention Memorandum: "We 

acknowledge this is an aggressive position, and that some less aggressive approach may be needed for 

trial, To date, however, we have not yet determined an alternative approach." ld, at 5, 

I See United States ex reI. Feldman v, van Gorp, 697 F.3d 78, 86-91 (2d Cir, 2012), 

2 See United States ex reI. Longhi v, Lithium Power Techs" Inc., 575 F.3d 458, 473 (5th Cir. 2009) (cited in the 

Draft Intervention Memorandum at 5), 

, See United States v, Rogan, 517 F,3d 449, 453 (7th Cil', 2008), 

, See Uniled States v, MPckby, 339 F.3d 1013, 1018-19 (9th Cir, 2003), 

5 Unlled States v, Science Applications Int'/ Corp" 626 F,3d 1257, 1279 (D,c'Cir, 2010), 

, United States v, Hibbs, 568 P,3d 347 (3rd Cir, 2007), 

3 
123 


Insert offset folio 47 here 81282.047

Even if the Department of Justice had intervelled and secured a judgment against the City on 

False Claims Act liability, moreover, there is a significant lisk that the District Court or the Court of 

Appeals for the Eighth Circuit would, under the facts of this case (including HUD's apparent disregard of 

Seclion3 enforcement, and the defendant's slatus as a taxpayer-funded entity) reject the "aggressive" 

approach of seeking to recoup all Section 3 grants. Such a decision would hinder the Government and 

relators in future False Claims Act cases in the Eighth Circuit's jurisdiction. 

The Risk of Newell's Dismissal on Public Disclosure Grounds 

The Joint Staff Report also criticizes the Department's declination on the grounds that it exposed 

Mr. Newell to dismissal of his qui tam suit on grounds that the Court lacked jurisdiction under the False 

Claims Act's public disclosure bar. See Joint Staff Report at 58; 31 U.S.c. § 3730(e)(4)(A) (2010). I 

respectfully disagree with the premise of this criticism, which is that the Department of Justice does, or 

should, evaluate the potential success of a motion to dismiss on public disclosure grounds. 

In my experience, both at the Department and in private practice, the Government does not 

typically investigate the common grounds on which declined qui tam suits founder: public disclosure 

and particularity under Fed. R. Civ. P. 9(b). Although I, as a whistIeblower attorney, would prefer that 

the Department investigate these possible grounds for dismissal prior to dedding whether to decline or 

intervene a case, there are sound reasons for not doing so: the Department of Justice has inadequate 

resources to investigate the merits of the fraud allegations; routinely investigating the public disclosures 

that might lead to the dismissal of a declined qui tam would ultimately detract from the Department's 

ability to carry out the False Claims Act's core mission of detecting and remedying fraud. 

Certainly no one has done more than Senatol' Grassley to encourage whistleblowers to assist the 

Government in uprooting fraud. The recent amendment to the public disclosUl'e bar demonstrates well 

his interest in improving enforcement of the Act. I nevertheless believe that Congress could best improve 

whistleblowers' involvement in fraud enforcement by addressing more significant problems besetting 

them (such as the application of Fed. R. Civ. P. 9(b) to False Claims Act complaints, which is by far the 

most common grounds for dismissal of declined qui tam cases) 

hl conclusion, after revieWing the publicly available materials on the Department of Justice's 

decision to decline to intervene in United States ex reI. Newell v. City of St. Paul, I believe that Department 

officials acted well within the scope of their discretion in declining to intervene in that case, I must 

respectfully disagree with the contrary conclusions the Joint Staff reached in its Report. I appreciate your 

consideration. 

Truly yours, 

BenjaminJ. Vemia 

4 
124 


Insert offset folio 50 here 81282.050

STATEMENT OF STEPHEN GILLERS 

ELIHU ROOT PROFESSOR OF LAW 

NEW YORK UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW 

May 6, 2013 

The Joint Staff Repott makes many assertions and contains many factual 

allegations, which mayor may not be contested, However, only one issue is described as 

ethical. It is this issue that the Democratic Staff memo mainly addresses. Stated 1110st 

favorably from the Joint Staffpel'spective, the issue is: . 

Assuming that Assistant Attorney General Tomas E. Perez (Civil 

Rights Division) was mainly responsible for reaching the agreement with 

the City of St. Paul described below - even assuming that the agreement 

would not have happened without his intervention •• but assuming, too, 

that Assistant Attorney General Tony West (Civil Division), who had 

ultimate authority to decide whether 01' not to intervene in Newell and 

ElliS, chose 110t to do so after considering their merits, the United States 

interest in preselving the disparate impact test under the Fair Housing Act, 

and the U.s. interest in ensuring (so far as possible) that a Supreme Coutt 

ruling on the propel' test be based on favorable facts, did Perez violate lIny 

rule of professional conduct (ethics rule) govcrning him as a lawyer by 

encouraging others at DOJ or HUD (or elsewhere) to refrain from 

intervention in Newell and Ellis in exchange for SI. Paul's agreement to 

withdraw the Magner appeal? 

The Joint Staff Report argues that linking the two cases"': withdrawal afthe 

Magner appeal and U.S. nOll-intervention in the two Qui Tam actions, Newell and Ellis 

(hereafter Newell) - was unethical. However, it cites no professional conduct rule, no 

court decision, no bar ethics opinion, and no secondary authority that SUppOtts this . 

argument. In fact, no authority suppotiS it. 

The duty of lawyers for the United States is no different from the duty of lawyers 

generally, namely to pursue the goals of their client within the bounds of law and ethics, 

Clifmts genel'll11y identify those goa1s, but when the client is the govemment, its lawyers 

often do so, sometimes in conjunction with agencies, elected officials, or other 

representatives oftlle government who are authorized to speak for the client. 

The United States had interests in Magner and also in Newell, Qui Tam actions 

are brought to vindicate interests of the sovereign, here the U.S, The U.S, interest was to 

recover money assuming, of course, that Newell had merit. The U.S, interest in Magner 

was to avoid Supreme Court review of a legal issue in Magner, whose facts were seen as 

unfavorable to a decision that wo\J\d sustain a dispnrate impact test for violations of the 

Fair Housing Act. Perez believed that preserving the disparate impact test was important 

to his client and more impOlt81lt than intervention inNewell. 
125 


Insert offset folio 51 here 81282.051

I assume that Perez persuaded others with decision-making authority, and in 

particular West, that withdrawing the Magner appeal was more important to U.S. 

interests than intervention in Newell. I also assume, though it is contested, that Newell 

was meritorious and that but fo1' the agreement with St. Paul, the United States would 

have intervened in Newell and perhaps prevailed. 

Of course, it is legitimate to argue that Perez, West, and others made the wrong 

choice and that pursuing Newell was more impOltant to U.S. interests than how the 

Supreme Court would ultimately resolve the issue in Magner. I have no view on that' 

question. It is not an ethical quesnon. The question I can answer is whether Perez could 

ethically make the decision he did and which he encouraged others to accept. Could he 

ethically decide, when faced with a situation where only one oftwo possible choices 

could be made, and where each choice offered a benefit to his client, to choose optionA 

over option B? 

The answer is unequivocally yes. Perez was not choosing to advantage one client 

over another client. There was no conflict here between the interests Of two clients 

because there was only one client. That client, we are assuming, had two interestswithdrawal of Magner or intervention inNewell·- but under the 'circumstances, it could 

pursue only one. Perez made a choice between these options and encouraged others to 

agree. His conduct violates no ethical rule that governs lawyers. He was acting in what he 

believed to be the best interests of his client, which is what lawyers are required to do. 

Stephen Gillers has taught legal ethics at New York University School of Law 

since 1978. His C.v. is on the NYU Law School website. ' 

2 
126 


Insert offset folio 52 here 81282.052

Statement of Hon. Jerrold Nadler 

"DOYs Quid Pro Quo with St. Paul: A Whistleblower's Perspective" 

Joint Hearing ofthe Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Subcommittee on 

Economic Growth, Job Creation and Regulatory Affairs and House Committee on the Judiciary, 

Subcommittee on Constitution and Civil Justice 

Tuesday, May 7, 2013, at 10:00 a.m. 

2154 Rayburn House Office Building 

Today's hearing is not about Mr. Newell or protecting legitimate whistleblowers. It is 

about attacking Tom Perez, the current Assistant Attorney General of the Justice Department's 

Civil Rights Division and President Obama's nominee to be the next Secretary of Labor. 

Tomorrow is the Senate mark-up of Assistant AG Perez's nomination. The entire purpose of this 

hearing is to attack the leadership and reputation of one of this nation's best public servants, Tom 

Perez. 

Of course, the Constitution grants the Senate - not the House - the role of providing 

advice and consent to the President on nominees. Whatever input into that process we might 

wish to have, it should not devolve into the type of partisan attack that this hearing represents. 

My Republican colleagues have declared that Assistant AG Perez "manipulated justice 

and ignored the rule of law" by successfully negotiating an agreement with the City of St. Paul, 

Minnesota to withdraw its appeal to the Supreme Court in Magner v. Gallagher. But Assistant 

AG Perez has done nothing wrong here; in fact. he did what any good lawyer would do and 

certainly what the steward of the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division should have done to 

serve the best interests of the United States. 

The Magner case challenged use of disparate impact theory to enforce our housing laws. 

Disparate impact theory allows the government to challenge policies or practices that, though 

seemingly neutral on their face, in practice, resultin discrimination against a protected class. It 

is a critical tool for weeding out all forms of discrimination, whether intentional or not, and 

ensuring equality of opportunity for all. It has long been uscd by Republican and Democratic 

administrations to attack discriminatory lending, employment, and housing practices. 
127 


Insert offset folio 53 here 81282.053

An adverse ruling from the Court in Magner could have eliminated use of this critical 

civil rights enforcement tool. 

Assistant AG Perez viewed Magner - where landlords of low-incoming housing were 

making the novel argument that disparate impact theory prevented St. Paul from enforcing its 

housing codes as an extremely poor factual vehicle for presenting this critical theory to the 

Court. Rightly concerned that "bad facts made for bad law," he seized the chance to reach an 

agreement with the City to withdraw Magner and avoid the risk of an adverse ruling. 

My Republican colleagues are unhappy that the Court did not get the opportunity to 

eliminate disparate impact theory. Aller all, they dispute the use of disparate impact and dislike 

the robust enforcement of civil rights laws. And they are unquestionably angry at Mr. Perez for 

his role in convincing St. Paul to withdraw its Magner appeal. But their complaints, and the 

accusations that they have leveled against Assistant AG Perez, have no legitimate legal, ethical, 

or professional responsibility basis. 

In fact, when the City of St. Paul suggested that it would withdraw its Magner appeal if 

the Civil Division's declined to intervene in Mr. Newell's False Claims Act case, Assistant AG 

Perez sought and received guidance from ethics and professional responsibility experts who 

approved such an agreement and his role in negotiating it. This alone debunks any claim of 

improper conduct. Even accepting the Republican's characterization of the agreement as a "quid 

pro quo" whereby the City withdrew its appeal "in exchange" for the decision against 

intervention in Mr. Newell's case, there is nothing unethical or improper with reaching or 

brokering such an agreement. 

Nor did Assistant AG Perez pressure career DO] Lawyers into recommending against 

intervention in Mr. Newell's case or somehow manipulate the Civil Division's decision-making 

process. As the documents and testimony reviewed over the course of the Committee's eighteen 

month investigation of this matter confirm, the decision not to intervene in Mr. Newell's case 

was made by the Civil Division, based on its independent evaluation of the evidence, witnesses, 
128 


Insert offset folio 54 here 81282.054

litigation risks, lack of HUD support for intervention, burden on the St. Paul taxpayers, and 

anticipated withdrawal of the City's Magner appeal. 

At the end of the day, the Justice Department's top career lawyers disagreed with earlier 

recommendations of more junior colleagues because they concluded that Mr. Newell did not 

have a strong False Claims Act case on its merits. 

My colleagues are free to disagree with the Civil Division's final decision in Mr. 

Newell's case, just as they are free to disagree with Assistant AG Perez's and the Civil Rights 

Division's desire to protect disparate impact theory. But let's not pretend that this disagreement 

have any legitimate ethical or professional responsibility basis. This is, at best, a policy 

disagreement; and worst, simply partisan politics. 

Senator Harkin recognized this when he canceled a hearing on occupational health and 

safety to which Mr. Newell had been invited to testify. Of course, Mr. Newell's complaints have 

nothing to do with that subject. And Senator Harkin, who is overseeing Assistant AG Perez's 

nomination as Chair of the Senate HELP (Health, Education, Labor and Pensions) Committee, 

appropriately dismissed that effort as a transparent "attack the President's nominee for Secretary 

of Labor, Thomas Perez" and refused to allow what he deemed an "abuse of process" to go 

forward. 

It is unfortunate that our Committee Majority did not follow Senator Harkin's lead. It is 

also unfortunate that Mr. Newell has been dragged into this partisan fight. His disappointment 

that the United States declined to intervene in his False Claims Act case is understandable. But 

that decision was never Assistant Attorney General Perez's to make and he did not make it. The 

decision against intervention made by the Justice Department's top False Claims Act lawyers 

was the right choice, as is confirmed by the testimony that we will hear from Shelley Slade today 

as well as the letters that we have received from other career False Claims Act lawyers who 

similarly view Mr. Newell's case as a weak candidate for government intervention. I would ask 

unanimous consent to have the letters that we've received made part of the record of this hearing. 
129 


Insert offset folio 55 here 81282.055

Assistant Attorney General Perez has done a tremendous job leading the Civil Rights 

Division, and it is long past time to end the smear campaign against him. We should all be 

thankful for his service, and look forward to his stewardship as Secretary of Labor. We do not 

serve the public interest by holding this hearing as part of a shameful smear campaign. 

With that, I yield back the balance of my time. 
130 


Insert offset folio 56 here 81282.056

OMm!:H l. 1"'511, LAU~OHNIA 

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jl)OUl.lC of l,eprcntlttlltibcn 

COMMIlTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM 

2 ! 57 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING 

WASHINGTON, DC 20515-6143 

Opening Statement 

Rep. Elijah E. Cummings, Ranking Memher 

HilMI c. (;UMM:M:;S, MMIYLANO 

HANKINOl;llNOflJ'fYMEM6[R 

CA1l0LYN B MAlONEY, ~JI,-W VOIlI:. 

HEANOR HOLMeS-NORTON, 

f)iSlfllCj OF COluwnA 

JOlIN r, rlEllNcv, MAllSACHUSETTS 

WM.LACVCLA't,M1SSO\JI\) 

$TE1'fltctll".L'tNr.1!,i'IIhS5hCHU"'I.Tf~, 

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MIlj\Y- l'OCIIN, WlnCONsrN 

l. TA~MY OiJCKWClHli, ILliNOIS 

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TONV CAnO€'<lhS. CAl.lf(!IINiA 

IllEVC'NA.IIQlIsrOflll, Nl'VIlDA 

MICHell( ULJAN GflISIIAM. In:W Mn(1CO 

Committee on Oversight and Governmeut Reform Subcoll1mittee on Economic Growth, 

Joh Creation and Rcgnlatol'Y Affairs and the COl11mittee Oil the Judicim'YSuhcol11ll1ittee. on 

the Constitution and Civil Justice 

Joint Hearing 011 "DOJ's Quid Pl'O Quo with St. Panl: A Wbistlehlower's Perspective" 

May 7, 2013 

Thank you, MI'. Cnainnan, and thanks to the witnesses appearing here today. 

It is cmiainly no coincidence ti,at today's hearing is being held one day before a 

commitlee vote in the Senate to COnfil111 Tom Perez as the President's nominee for Secretary of 

Labor. Today's hearing is an unfortunate and highly partisan exercise intended to raise 

unfounded questions about the reputation of Mr. Perez, despite the fact that U,ere is no evidence 

that his actions were any tiling but professional and in the best interest of combating 

discrimination in our nation lS housing, 

The core allcgation leveled by Republicans is that Mr. Perez, as the head onhe Civil 

Rights Division at the Department of Justice, inappropriately coordinated a quid pro quo 

agreement with the City of St. Paul in which the Department declined to intervene in two False 

Claims Act eases in exchange for St. Paul withdrawing a separate case before the Sllpremc 

Court. 

The problem with the Republican theory is that Mr. Perez did nothing wrong. He 

obtained clearanee ii'om ethics officials at the Dej1artment. he coordinated properly with the head 

of tile Civil Division, and he and others at the Departillettt relied on career experts with decades 

of experience who concluded, after a earefulreview of the evidence, that the False Claims Act 

cases were too weak to recommend that the govermuclll expend the resources to litigate them. 

Since then, a host of other Jegal experts have bRcked up the Department's conclusions. 

For example, in a statement issued yesterday, Professor Stephen Gillers, who has taught legal 

ethics for morc U,an 30 years at New York University School of Law, wrote that a Republican 

report issued last month suggesting that Mr. Perez acted improperly "cites 110 professional 

conduct rule, no court decision, no bar ethics opinion, aneJno secondary authority that SUppOlts 

this Rrgument." The reaSOll, he explained, is that "no authority supports it." 
131 


Insert offset folio 57 here 81282.057

fn addition, one oftoday's witnesses, Shelley Slade, is an attorney with 20 years of 

experience in False Claims Act cases. She explained in her written statement: 

J am conndent thai the actions taken by the Civil Division offIcials with regard to the 

Newell qui (am case, including the factors that were considered in the declination 

decision, were fully consistent with the law, as well as ethical and professional 

obligations. 

Ms. Slade explained. fl\1ther: 

lfmy law firm had becn contacted about tflking on this case, wo would have rejccled it. 

Notwithstanding the apparent strong evidence thut the City of St. Paul engaged in 

repeated and egregious violations of Section 3 of the Housing & Urban Development Acl 

of 1986, the qui tam case presents serious litigation risk on a number of fronts. 

Another eXj)elt, Ben Vernia, a practicing False Claims Act attorney and writer of the 

legal blog, fulseclaimscol1nsoJ.com, wrote a letter to our Subcommittees. He cited the 

"prominent weakness" of the case and explained that even an early document prepared by 

Department attorneys initially favoring intervention "acknowledges severa] significant po1cnlial 

problems with the case - problems that clearly rebut the conclusion thaI the case was a 'strong' 

one,)1 

In Light of these significant legal weaknesses, we can understand why our investigation 

found that a high-ranking career official at the Dcpartrnent of Justice-considered to be the 

l'ederal govemmenl's preeminent False Claims Act expert'-expressed grave doubts about the 

case. 

Mr. Newell probabJy does not want to hear about weakncsses in the case his lawyer 

brought, and this is certainly no criticism of him. r apprecialehis efforts to combat 

discrimination, especially affecting his small business. But these weaknesses were both 

significant and ohvious to attorneys experienced in this area of law. Unfortunately, thc m,~ority 

invited Mr. Newell here not because they wallt to further his anti-discrimination canse, but 

because lhey want to lise him to further their partisan and unsubstantiated claims against Mr. 

Perez. 

Con(acl: Jennifer Hoflin3n, Press Secretary, (202) no-51 R 1. 

2 
132 


Insert offset folio 58 here 81282.058

LAMA!lS SMITH. r"l(n~ 

CHAIf\MAN 

F JAMf.S SENSENOllENNEfI, JA.. W,ncunGI" 

IlOWARD GQa~f., NO/Ito C:u'Qh"~ 

lit TON GALL~GlV, C'lli!ornj~ 

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S1EVECJlASOT,ill>I" 

PAI1f1Ell& !SSlI.r"'Ilf("l'nla 

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J ~AN(W PORSeS, VirGiN'a 

Sl~V~ KING, iow6 

TRENT FRANKS. A{;ZOM 

(OUlf GOHMfRT. fUNij 

JIM JORDAN. Obl(l 

TfOf'O~, TOUI 

<tongl'CSS of tile ilnftcd ~tatcs 

1I\ousc of 'RcpresmtatiDcS JASON CHAfFH1, \J1~I, 

TIM GRiffiN, Af~~Ma, 

TOM M/\f'tINO, ""'nn~~lv""l,. 

TREY GOWOV, S"u!!! C",,~I;Il~ 

DENNIS /lOSS, Horiaa 

~ANOY AOAMS, flo-rIc!o 

.!.lEN OUIIYlf.,/I/I~on~ 

MARK AM()D\:I, N~vad~ 

The Honorablc Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

A ttorney General 

U.S. Department of Justice 

Washington, D.C. 20530 

Dear Attorney General Holder: 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

2138 RAVBURN HOUSE OFHCE BUILDING 

WASHINGTON, DC 20515-6216 

(202) 225-3951 ilttp:/Mww.hou.~<l,gw.'/lurjr(:j/j'Y 

October 4, 2012 

JOHN CONYC1l.S, JR .. M1eh'H_" 

MNKfNG MEMB'EfI 

IIOWAI'lI':! l amMAN, C~lill>""i~ 

JIi.f\ROLO NAOlEII, Naw yo,k 

nOBEllT C ~Iloasy" !:icon, Vlfolnill 

MELVIN l. WAiT, r>lmtll Calo!lno 

zOEtOFOAeN,C&lIl(lI~la 

SliEllII, JACKSON t.tE, T,,~ut 

MAX"lNE WATEn!>, C!I'I!ll>lni;,. 

STEV£C<iHEN, T!I~!nn~'M 

HENRY C. "HANX" ,JOHNSON. JR" OeGf!Jlu 

PEDRO R, PIEnWISI, ruoft() filM 

/.'11K!:; QUIGlEV, nhnel~ 

JUDY CHIl, CIIl)(Qrn!a 

ntO OEU rCH, Rf)rid~ 

LINDA T MNr;He1, C~!jttlml~ 

JIIR!;O POllS, C(lf""~rln 

On September 24, 2012, we wrote to request that the Depaliment of Justice (Dcpartment) 

produce documents and make witnesses available regarding the quid pro quo deal that the 

Department entered with the City of St. Paul, Minnesota. In this quid pro quo arrangement, the 

City agreed to drop its Supreme Court appeal in the case of Magner v. Gallagher in exchange for 

the Deparlment's agreement not to intervene in two False Claims Act lawsuits against the Citydespite career employees in the Department calling the conduct in the cases "particularly 

egregious." That letter set a September 28th deadline for the Department to schedule production 

of the documents and witness interviews. We are disappointed that the Department did not meet 

this deadline and that it has not yet responded to our request. We therefore write to renew our 

request. 

The Depaltment's inability to meet the deadline is especially dismaying, and full 

cooperation with Congressional oversight is eRpecially important, because the Department 

apparently found time last week to make highly disputable - if not misleading - statements to the 

press about the agreement. Ifthe Department has time to spin this matter to the press, surely it 

has time to respond to constitutional Congressional oversight of the matter. 

Specifically, a Department spokeswoman told the Washington Post that the agreement 

was "consistent with the Department's practice in reaching global settlements.,,1 However, after 

consulting with Department veterans, we are unaware of any precedent for the Department 

trading away a direct financial interest in recovering fraudulently obtaincd taxpayer dollars in 

I Sari Horwitz, "Four Republican Lawmakers Accuse justice Depal'ment oflnappropriate Quid Pro Quo," 

Washington Post, Sept. 27, 2012, available alllliJl:/lwww,W;)~JJ!Jll.,cQ1U!<;li!l.cQmII!iOl'ldIrJnLiQnlll-sq;;lu:i1.'1/r01'0 

!:llJ)JJW lean" lawnml'llcS.:!ICCusc-;.lJill ,ee-c! epMmenl-Q 8m!ml.!3lPX1!lIe.::tllili!.:PI,o-gY.QI2.0 12/U2!27 !61~ftebtQ:.Q$eS -I I e2, 

!LLQc-[as a2,5~25 R ..J1Q[)',htrnl. 
133 


Insert offset folio 59 here 81282.059

The Honorable Eric H, Holder, Jr. 

October 4, 2012 

Page 2 

exchange for advancing a mere political interest in a case in which the United States was not 

even a patty. Indeed, the Department represented to Committee staff at the August 16, 2012, 

briefing that it too was aware of no precedent "analogous" to this quid pro quo deal? 

In addition, a Department official told the Post that before cutting this deal, Assistant 

Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez "consulted with the department's ethics officials 

and was advised that there were no conccrns.,,3 However, the documents reviewed by our staff 

appear to show that instead of seeking independent advice, Perez merely consulted a Civil Rights 

division attorney who was his direct subordinate. The perfunctory approval of a direct 

subordinate is certainly not the type of robust and independent ethical guidance required by an 

issue of this magnitude and complexity. 

Finally, the same Department official argued that it is ''unclear whether Justice would 

have become involved in the lawsuit against the city in the end because the department does not 

intervene in almost 80 percent of false-claim civil cases.,,4 However, according to documents 

reviewed by our staff, career attorneys at the Department had already all but decided to intervene 

in the Newell casco The more relevant statistic would be the frequency with which senior 

political appointees in the Justice Department overrule a recommendation to intervene from the 

front-line career attorneys who are most familiar with the facts. This is sUJ'ely a much rarer 

occurrcnce. For the Department to cite general intervention statistics with respect to a case in 

which it was this far down the road toward intervention is irrelevant and misleading. 

On top ofthi8, the Department's actions in this case raise questiOlls about the role senior 

political appointees played in this decision. Tony West, the Senate confirmed Assistant Attorney 

General for the Civil Division-which oversees the Commercial Litigation Branch's Fraud 

Section that handles False Claims Act cases-would have played a role in quashing intervention 

in a False Claims Act case. However, during his Senate confirmation, AAG West responded to 

questions from Senator Grassley stating "If confirmed, I will work with qui tam whistleblowers 

to support viable claims of fraud, waste and abuse of taxpayer dollars."S AAG West further 

responded, "If confirmed, I will work with the career professionals in the Department to respond 

to Judiciary Committee requests for appropriate information about False Claims Act cases.,,6 

The Department's actions in this quid pro quo arrangement and the Department's failure to 

respond to this inquiry call into question AAG West's statements made during confirmation and 

require immediate c1arification--especially now that his nomination for Associate Attorney 

General was just recently transmitted (0 the Senate. 

, Committees staff briefing with M6nica Ramierz, U.S, Dep't of Justice (Aug. 16, 2012), 

J Horwitz, supra nole 1. . , Id. 

'Confirmation Hearings on Federal Appointments. S. ERG: 111-695, Pt. 1, at 784 (2009). 

6 rd, at 785, 
134 


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The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

October 4, 2012 

Page 3 

This is an important matter for Congressional oversight. The Department's actions in 

trading a direct and substantial interest in recovering taxpayer funds for a political interest in an 

unrelated case to which it was not a party appears to be unprecedented. These actions raise 

substantial questions about whether the Department elevated its ideological agenda above the 

taxpayer.I' interest in fighting fraud. As Members of Congress with oversight responsibility over 

the Department of Justice, we are obligated to fully investigate and uncover all of the facts about 

the quid pro quo arrangement, The'documents and interviews requested are necessary to this 

investigation and are consistent with requests by Congressional committees with which the 

Department has historically complied. . 

lfthe Depat1ment does not produce the requested documents and schedule the requested 

interviews by Wednesday, October 10,2012, we will be forced to consider use of the 

compulsory process, Thank you for your attention to this matter, 

Sincerely, 

-- .' #'""~~ 

~\~Jl7v--. Lamar Smith r:)'ltI'CII Issa . 

Chainnan 

Committee on the Judiciary 

c/J6iA~ Chairman ~' ',. ~ / 

Subcommittee on TARP, Financial ServICes 

and Bailouts ot'Public and Private Programs 

Committee on Oversight and Government 

Reform 

Chairman 

Committee on Oversight and Government 

Reform 

tLJ, _Jt~ ~ ~ ~~~~ Charles E. GraB~ Ranldng Member 

Committee on the Judiciary 

United States Senate 

cc: The Hon. John Conyers, Jr" Ranking Member, Committee on the Judiciary 

The Hon. Elijah Cummings, Ranldng Member, Committee on Oversight and Government 

Reform 
135 

Æ 


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The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr. 

October 4, 2012 

Page 4 

The Han. Mike Quigley, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on TARP, Financial Services 

and Bailouts of Public and Private Programs 

The Hon. Patrick J. Leahy, Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate