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CRISIS IN SYRIA: THE U.S. RESPONSE

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

MARCH 20, 2013

Serial No. 113–10

Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/ or

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/

(II)

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey 

ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida 

DANA ROHRABACHER, California 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina 

MICHAEL T. MCCAUL, Texas 

TED POE, Texas 

MATT SALMON, Arizona 

TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania 

JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina 

ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois 

MO BROOKS, Alabama 

TOM COTTON, Arkansas 

PAUL COOK, California 

GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina 

RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas 

SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania 

STEVE STOCKMAN, Texas 

RON DESANTIS, Florida 

TREY RADEL, Florida 

DOUG COLLINS, Georgia 

MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina 

TED S. YOHO, Florida 

LUKE MESSER, Indiana 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American 

Samoa 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey 

GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia 

THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

KAREN BASS, California 

WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts 

DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island 

ALAN GRAYSON, Florida 

JUAN VARGAS, California 

BRADLEY S. SCHNEIDER, Illinois 

JOSEPH P. KENNEDY III, Massachusetts 

AMI BERA, California 

ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California 

GRACE MENG, New York 

LOIS FRANKEL, Florida 

TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii 

JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas

AMY PORTER, Chief of Staff THOMAS SHEEHY, Staff Director

JASON STEINBAUM, Democratic Staff Director 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page

WITNESSES 

The Honorable Robert S. Ford, American Ambassador to Syria ......................... 5

The Honorable Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau for Population, 

Refugees, and Migration, U.S. Department of State ......................................... 11

The Honorable Nancy E. Lindborg, Assistant Administrator, Bureau for Democracy, Conflict and Humanitarian Assistance, United States Agency for 

International Development ................................................................................. 18

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING 

The Honorable Robert S. Ford: Prepared statement ............................................ 7

The Honorable Anne C. Richard: Prepared statement ......................................... 13

The Honorable Nancy E. Lindborg: Prepared statement ..................................... 20

APPENDIX 

Hearing notice .......................................................................................................... 56

Hearing minutes ...................................................................................................... 57

The Honorable Eliot L. Engel, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of New York: Prepared statement ...................................................................... 59

(1)

CRISIS IN SYRIA: THE U.S. RESPONSE 

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 20, 2013

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:52 a.m., in room 

2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Edward Royce (chairman of the committee) presiding. 

Chairman ROYCE. This hearing will come to order, and today we 

meet to review the Syrian crisis. 

It was 2 years ago last week that on the nightly news we saw 

those protestors walking through the street chanting, ‘‘Peaceful, 

peaceful.’’ And the thing the world saw next was that the Syrian 

forces opened up with small arms fire on the marchers. Over the 

ensuing weeks that was followed by artillery barrages, followed by 

tanks flattening villages, followed eventually by aerial bombardment, and finally by Scud missiles into cities. 

We are now 2 years into that Syrian uprising, and for 2 bloody 

years U.S. policy has been adrift. Initially, the Obama administration saw Assad as a reformer in their words. Once the revolt started, it backed U.N. diplomacy, and then bet on Moscow to play a 

constructive role. Predictably, none of this has worked. Yet even 

today, Secretary Kerry talks of Assad coming to the table. 

This is the Assad who is bombing villages in Syria. This is the 

Assad who is ordering teenagers tortured and, frankly, is engaged 

in murdering his populace. 

The ancient city of Homs is now in ruins. Seventy thousand Syrians are dead. A million refugees have spilled into neighboring 

countries, destabilizing those countries. And there are troubling reports that Assad may be moving to unleash chemical weapons. 

The U.S. has been generous in supporting suffering Syrians, but 

perhaps naively so. Much of our humanitarian aid has been funneled through the U.N. and through other international organizations that are largely restricted to areas controlled by the Syrian 

regime. Now, that is absurd. 

Only recently has the U.S. begun to push food aid directly to the 

Syrian opposition. That shift, frankly, should accelerate and accelerate dramatically. I really wonder about providing any humanitarian aid through the U.N. that ends up going through the regime 

at all because it indirectly helps Assad and, therefore, presumably 

prolongs the conflict and prolongs the human suffering. 

Syria is today a humanitarian nightmare. It’s also a great strategic challenge. At the end of the day, it might be an opportunity 

2

for reform in society in Syria, but it’s also an opportunity with 

Assad gone because then Iran would lose a key ally, one critical to 

its terrorist operations, including against Israel. And that’s why 

Iran and Hezbollah are massively stepping up their support of the 

Assad regime providing a lifeline of weapons and providing fighters 

on the ground. Much of this weaponry, by the way, flows through 

Iraq, and that can’t continue without consequences. 

Unfortunately, jihadist groups are gaining strength and popularity in a portion of Syria. They’ve been able to convince too many 

Syrians that they are on their side. Al-Nusra and aligned radical 

groups fighting to remove Assad are also preparing for the day 

after his fall. They are competing with the civil society groups behind the free Syrian Army. Syrian extremists are translating their 

battle success into authority over society as a whole influencing 

courts, schools, and mosques, but I should say that most of those 

extremists are from outside Syria. This is something very vexing 

to civil society in Syria who have shared with us their concerns 

about the influx of these foreign fighters. Their concern is that 

these extremists are making inroads. 

To avoid such a hostile future Syria armed with chemical weapons, we need to help better organize and empower the Syrian opposition—those Syrians who began the revolt by chanting, ‘‘Peaceful, 

peaceful.’’ We have let them down, and let our strategic interests 

down. 

Some believe that it is time to provide arms to vetted opposition 

groups. Others worry about a potentially lengthy and deepening 

engagement and note that many weapons are already flowing into 

Syria. But the British and French have come to realize the biggest 

winner in the arms embargo has been Assad. Everything should be 

considered, but the U.S. could have the greatest impact through 

training, intelligence, and logistics. 

It has been said that the U.S. has no good options in Syria, and 

that’s probably true. Stay away, as we mainly have, and bad things 

are guaranteed to happen. Get more involved, as some are calling 

for, and good things might happen. All of it is incredibly unpredictable. The best we can do is know what we can, realize what we 

can’t, and make decisions as we must. 

I’ll now turn to Congressman Ted Deutch, who fills in for Ranking Member Engel. Big shoes to fill today, especially given Mr. 

Engel’s efforts on Syria over many years, which has helped move 

the administration to more actively consider the range of U.S. options in recent weeks. Mr. Deutch. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Ambassador Ford, Assistant Secretary Richard, Assistant Administrator 

Lindborg for being with us today. And I’d also like to take a moment to recognize my friend, the ranking member Eliot Engel, who 

couldn’t be here today as he is in Israel for President Obama’s 

visit, but he’s long been one of the most engage Members of Congress on Syria, and on this conflict. 

The uprising in Syria is about to enter its third year. Over 

70,000 Syrians have been killed, there are over 1 million registered 

refugees, 21⁄2 million internally displaced persons. 

Our partners in the region, Turkey and Jordan, are sheltering 

nearly 200,000 and 400,000 refugees respectively. International aid 

3

to refugees has been slow to reach countries in need of support. In 

fact, of the $11⁄2 billion of refugee aid pledged at the Kuwait Donors 

Conference held in January, only 20 percent has been distributed. 

We have to do more to insure that our humanitarian aid is reaching those critical populations. 

We can no longer look at Syria as a self-contained conflict. The 

implications on regional stability are too great. As the fighting 

rages on, the potential for spillover into the Golan Heights or into 

Lebanon is great. As 300,000 refugees seek refuge in Lebanon, 

there are Hezbollah fighters on the ground fighting alongside 

Assad’s forces. Iranian arms flow through Syria to Hezbollah. 

Assad is Iran’s closest ally. Iranian Revolutionary Guard members are on the ground in Syria providing training to Syrian forces 

and raising militias in Assad strongholds. The Iranian regime is 

providing telecommunications equipment, arms, and money to 

Assad. The collapse of the Assad regime would deal a devastating 

blow to Iran and its ability to support Hezbollah and other terrorist 

groups in the region. 

I’m extremely concerned about reports that Iraq is turning a 

blind eye to the Iranian’s use of Iraqi airspace to transport weapons to Assad. This inaction is simply unacceptable. In fact, I’ll be 

sending a letter to Prime Minister Maliki this week urging him to 

immediately ground and inspect Iranian cargo and civilian planes 

attempting to access Iraqi airspace. 

For the sake of regional stability, we and our partners must cooperate with urgency in order to bring this conflict to an end. So, 

the obvious question remains what more should or can we do? 

Secretary Kerry’s announcement of direct humanitarian aid to 

the Opposition was a positive step. We need to engage with the opposition. The people of Syria need to know that they have the support of the United States. 

We know that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are providing substantial 

resources to the opposition. Our European allies led by France and 

Great Britain are considering ways to get around the EU arms embargo and provide lethal assistance to the opposition. 

The arguments for arming the opposition are compelling. It could 

shift the balance of power and it provides the U.S. influence with 

those who may eventually govern a new Syria, but what are the 

chances of success if we don’t provide assistance? And is the potential outcome worse for U.S. security and security in the region if 

we fail to act? 

When Assad falls, and it is only a question of when, we have to 

insure that our security interest will be protected. This means a 

commitment from any new government that chemical weapons will 

be secured and will be destroyed. So, as the discussion inevitably 

shifts toward whether or not the U.S. should provide lethal assistance to the opposition, it is our responsibility to determine whether 

this can be done in a way that insures that U.S. arms will not fall 

into the hands of terrorist organizations. 

Our ability to vet opposition groups could be seriously improved 

if Syrian Opposition Coalition leaders can form a strong chain of 

command, and can unite the various groups fighting across the 

country. 

4

I’m encouraged that the Syrian Opposition Coalition chose a 

Prime Minister for its exile government yesterday, but time is of 

the essence in translating this leadership to ground operations. 

There are difficult decisions that must be made in the days and 

weeks ahead. Do we encourage the Syrian Opposition to establish 

an alternative government on Syrian territory? Do we continue to 

push for a U.N. Security Council resolution? Do we provide military advisors and training? Do we provide direct military assistance; and, if so, what kind? And, ultimately, is it realistic to believe 

that Assad can be pushed to accept any negotiated end to this conflict? 

The unconfirmed use of chemical weapons makes this more 

pressing. The use of chemical weapons by this regime would be 

horrific, but 70,000 slaughtered Syrians is horrific. The discussions 

that we have in this committee are interesting, but the fact that 

this is hard cannot stop us from acting. 

Ambassador Ford, you and your colleagues know better than 

anyone, there are no easy answers. Inaction, however, simply if not 

an option. I look forward to your testimony and I yield back. Thank 

you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you, Mr. Deutch. We’ll yield 3 minutes 

to the chairman of the Middle East Subcommittee, Ileana RosLehtinen. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for holding this timely hearing as the 2-year anniversary of the Syrian conflict just passed. 

After years of violence and internal struggle, the fighting in 

Syria continues, and the refugee crisis threatens the stability of our 

allies in the region. With over 70,000 dead and over 1 million refugees, the numbers continue to rise as there is no clear end in sight. 

What started as a popular uprising where Syrians took to the 

streets in protest against the Assad regime’s corruption, human 

rights abuses and brutality has turned into a full-scale sectarian 

conflict that pits the Assad regime against Islamists who seek to 

establish an Islamic state in the wake of Assad’s removal. 

The secular moderate elements have been forced to a periphery, 

and their movement has been co-opted by the extremists. That is 

why the United States must take and must take with extreme caution any action that deals with opposition forces in Syria. 

While I respect the opinion of my colleagues, I sincerely do not 

believe that it is time for the U.S. to arm the rebels. Too many 

questions remain about who the rebels are, and with whom they 

will swear allegiance. The unknown can be dangerous and the vetting of the opposition is not enough when it comes to providing lethal aid that could be used against our allies, such as Israel, or 

even the United States in a post-Assad era. 

I’m also deeply concerned about Assad’s stockpile of WMDs that 

were they to fall into the wrong hands could jeopardize the entire 

Middle East region, as well as our own U.S. national security. We 

must examine also those regimes that continue to help Assad stay 

afloat. 

Last week the Director of National Intelligence testified that,

‘‘North Korea’s export of ballistic missiles and associated materials to several countries, including Iran and Syria, and its asVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:13 May 06, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\WORK\_FULL\032013\80121 HFA PsN: SHIRL
5

sistance to Syria’s construction of a nuclear reactor destroyed 

in 2007 illustrate the reach of its proliferation activities.’’

To address this national security threat, Congressman Brad 

Sherman and I introduced the Iran, North Korea, and Syria NonProliferation Accountability Act, and this bipartisan bill prohibits 

assistance to any government that has provided assistance to Iran, 

North Korea, or Syria, or has failed to prevent individuals or entities under its sovereignty from aiding in the proliferation activities 

of those three states. We welcome cosponsors to our legislation. 

Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you. Let me introduce our panel here, 

representatives from the State Department and the United States 

Agency for International Development. 

Ambassador Robert Ford is the American Ambassador to Syria. 

In his 27-year Foreign Service tenure, he has served as Ambassador to Algeria and as the Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. 

Embassy in Baghdad. 

Ms. Anne Richard serves as the Assistant Secretary for the Bureau for Population Refugees and Migration at the State Department. Prior to her appointment, Ms. Richard worked for the International Rescue Committee, an agency committed to refugees and 

internally displaced persons. 

Nancy Lindborg is the Assistant Administrator for the Bureau 

for Democracy Conflict and Humanitarian Assistance for USAID. 

Before joining USAID, she was president of Mercy Corps. 

So, we welcome all of our distinguished witnesses here today, 

and without objection, the witnesses’ full testimony, your full prepared statements will be made part of the record. Members may 

have 5 days to submit statements and questions for the record. And 

to our witnesses, I’d just ask you to summarize your testimony 

within those 5 minutes. We’ll begin with Ambassador Ford. 

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ROBERT S. FORD, 

AMERICAN AMBASSADOR TO SYRIA 

Ambassador FORD. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of 

the committee. Thank you very much for inviting me to come talk 

with you today. I know our time is limited so I’m going to keep my 

remarks quite brief. 

As you noted, Mr. Chairman, what started out as a peaceful demand for dignity and freedom has turned, instead, into a devastating conflict with a horrific human toll. Syrians face a new 

level of ruthlessness from the Assad regime, which is raining Scud 

missiles down on residential neighborhoods, bombing hospitals, 

bombing schools, and sending out its thugs into streets to terrorize 

and arrest fellow citizens. 

More than 70,000 Syrians now have died since the beginning of 

this conflict, and the number is rising, especially as fighting in Damascus and Southern Syria now is intensifying. More than 1 million Syrians have left their homes in their country to seek refuge 

in neighboring countries, a number which could quadruple by the 

end of this year if the increase in refugee flows continues. It’s very 

striking that Jordan’s fourth largest city now is the Zaatari refugee 

camp. 

6

We are working to alleviate the human suffering. The United 

States is the largest bilateral humanitarian aid donor, and my colleagues, Anne and Nancy, can tell you more about our humanitarian assistance efforts. So, let me talk, instead, about how this 

can end. 

Beyond addressing humanitarian needs, the United States is acting. The United States is helping Syrians who seek a government 

that will respect the dignity and the rights of all Syrians and that 

will foster, not threaten, stability in the Middle East. 

Since December 2012, the United States along with our international partners have recognized the Syrian Opposition Coalition 

as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people. The Coalition 

has a diverse group of representatives inside Syria as well as outside, and the Coalition is committed to a democratic and inclusive 

government, free from the influence of violent extremists. And now 

it needs help providing basic services in liberated areas. 

Secretary Kerry in Rome at the end of February announced a 

new assistance package of $63 million to help the Syrian Opposition Coalition, to help Syrians on the ground inside Syria, and to 

provide food and medical supplies to the Supreme Military Command of the Free Syrian Army, and to the Syrian Opposition Council for those in need. 

Our aid, along with that of our partners is very important, especially to forestall the complete collapse of state institutions. This is 

a point which Secretary Kerry has emphasized repeatedly. But, ultimately, we perceive that a negotiated political transition is the 

best long-term solution to the Syrian crisis. 

The Geneva Communique ́ agreed upon by the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, Turkey, the Arab 

League States calls for a transition governing body to be set up 

with full executive powers, and this is important, formed on the 

basis of mutual consent between the Opposition and the Syrian regime. We cannot see how Bashar al-Assad and his circle who long 

ago lost their legitimacy, and whom the Opposition will never accept in a transition government, we cannot see how he and his circle can play any role in that transition governing body. He must 

step aside. 

We need to get to negotiations to establish that transition governing body, but it is not easy, and how are we to get there? As 

Secretary Kerry has noted, we need to change Bashar al-Assad’s 

calculations because he still thinks he can win militarily. 

Therefore, we are working with our partners to strengthen the 

Opposition and to change the balance on the ground to help give 

the Opposition the leverage they need to negotiate and to change 

Bashar’s calculations. 

Let me note here that the election of Ghassan Hitto as Prime 

Minister for the Coalition is a step forward, and we look forward 

to working with him and with the Opposition Coalition President, 

Muaz al-Khatib in the weeks ahead. And let me also say that we 

look forward to working with the Congress as we seek to support 

the needs of the Syrian people in their struggle to create a free, 

stable, and democratic Syria. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ambassador Ford follows:]

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STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ANNE C. RICHARD, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU FOR POPULATION, REFUGEES, 

AND MIGRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE 

Ms. RICHARD. Good morning, Chairman Royce, Ranking Members, and Mr. Deutch, and members of this committee. Thank you 

for hosting this hearing today on the humanitarian crisis inside 

Syria. 

I am pleased to be able to appear before the committee with my 

colleague, Ambassador Robert Ford, and USAID Assistant Administrator, Nancy Lindborg. Our offices work closely together to provide humanitarian aid to those affected by the violence in Syria. 

The 2-year anniversary of the Syria uprising coincides with another dark milestone. Over 1 million refugees have fled Syria. More 

troubling, half of that number arrived in the last 2 months. 

I would like to share with you the approach the Bureau for Population, Refugees, and Migration is taking to address the crisis, and 

how that complements and reinforces what USAID does. In my 

written testimony, I describe how the refugee crisis is affecting the 

neighboring countries, and I won’t go into those details here, but 

invite questions from you on the very different situations we have 

seen in Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey, and Iraq. 

Let me just say that we recognize the huge strain that the influx 

of refugees is currently placing on host countries. It is essential 

that neighboring countries continue to keep their borders open for 

those refugees fleeing violence in Syria. 

In every meeting with officials from these countries we thank 

them for allowing refugees to cross and discuss ways to help them 

uphold humanitarian principles while protecting their own security, and preventing a spillover of violence. 

The Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration works closely 

with our colleagues at USAID, and together we lead the U.S. Government’s humanitarian response. Nancy Lindborg and I have 

traveled often to the region, traveled together twice, and on our 

most recent trip were also joined by Ambassador Ford in Turkey 

prior to our participation at the January Kuwait Donors Conference. 

The State Department is helping to get as much humanitarian 

aid as possible to Syria’s conflict victims. We are providing funding 

to the United Nations, the International Committee of the Red 

Cross, and non-governmental organizations. These aid agencies 

bring technical expertise and operational capacity to respond to a 

crisis as large-scale as this. Of the nearly $385 million provided 

thus far, the State Department’s contribution total nearly $185 million and meet basic humanitarian needs such as shelter, water, 

and health both inside Syria, and in host countries. 

The delivery of assistance is often undertaken at great personal 

risk. In recent months, U.N. convoys have delivered aid to Opposition-held areas in Syria where thousands are in acute need of humanitarian help. Such movements are highly dangerous. 

Of course, people in need are not concentrated in one area and 

can be found all around the shifting battle lines. Humanitarian organizations provide aid in a neutral and impartial manner. The 

United Nations is seeking to get access to all communities in need 

12

on a regular basis. It is unacceptable and a violation of humanitarian principles for the Syrian regime to deny this access. 

I should mention that the fighting has also endangered the lives 

of Palestinians and Iraqi refugees who lived in Syria. They, too, are 

caught up in this crisis and have been displaced, or have fled the 

country. 

I regret to tell you that even as the crisis explodes, the international community is facing a resource problem. The U.N.’s Regional Response Plan has thus far received only 21 percent of the 

funds it needs to operate for the first half of 2013. Other donors 

must quickly provide the funds that agencies need to keep lifesaving operations going. 

And even if the Assad regime falls soon, humanitarian aid will 

likely continue. This is because of the widespread destruction of 

Syria’s infrastructure and predicted flows of refugees that would 

continue to cross borders—likely in both directions. Needs could extend into the long term. 

I’ve got my work cut out for me in terms of convincing other 

countries to give more, in setting the record straight about the heroic efforts of aid workers inside Syria, in pressing international 

aid agencies to do as much as they can, wherever they can. 

I am encouraging U.N. leaders to take on more risks and push 

the envelope to get aid into those hard to access parts of Syria 

where the needs are great. And we are formally requesting that 

they plan for every conceivable contingency since this crisis has already defied predictions about its likely scale and scope. 

We are asking neighboring countries to keep their borders open 

despite political tensions and economic burdens within their own 

countries, to work with us to insure international aid reaches the 

Syrians, and to help us uphold international standards in order to 

protect and aid refugees. 

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, my Bureau’s primary concerns are 

providing protection and assistance to those who have fled the violence. The State Department’s overall goal, of course, is a return 

of peace and stability to Syria, and to one day see the refugees return home. And I’ll be happy to answer your questions at the appropriate time. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Richard follows:]

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STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE NANCY E. LINDBORG, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, BUREAU FOR DEMOCRACY, CONFLICT AND HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE, UNITED STATES 

AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT 

Ms. LINDBORG. Chairman Royce, members of the committee, 

thank you very much for having us here today. 

We are 2 years into this conflict, and we are in the midst of a 

grim and escalating humanitarian crisis. We’ve heard the grim statistics; behind each of these statistics are profound stories of loss 

and particular impact on the women and children who are always 

the most affected by conflict. 

We heard these stories in January when the three of us traveled 

to the region, and it really hits home how profoundly brutal this 

war is when you stand at the border of Syria and Jordan at night 

and literally watch thousands of families walk across that border, 

mainly women and children. 

I want to just cover a few key points today. First, our humanitarian mandate is one of the most important expressions of who we 

are as Americans, and the U.S. Government is helping those in 

need throughout Syria. Since the conflict began 2 years ago, our 

aid has been a lifeline to more than 2.4 million people, including 

those in areas affected by the worst violence, in Idlib, in Aleppo, 

in Daraa. 

We are working through all channels, through the United States, 

international organizations, NGOs, local Syrian groups and networks to reach all who are in need throughout Syria. We are working closely with the Syrian Opposition Coalition’s Assistance Coordination Unit or ACU, which is now playing a vital role in coordinating international aid going into Syria. USAID has a full-time liaison working with the ACU to build that relationship, to share information, coordinate the assistance, and help the ACU have greater capacity to do more. 

Our assistance is reaching all 14 Governorates and approximately 60 percent of our aid is reaching those in contested and Opposition-held areas. We’ve prioritized food, basic medical, and trauma care relief supplies. In Aleppo Governorate 50 bakeries were reopened with enough flour from USAID to bake daily bread for 

210,000, and working with a cadre of very brave doctors, mainly 

Syrians, we’re supporting 144 hospitals, health clinics, and mobile 

units who are providing essential care, and especially looking at 

the needs of women and children who are affected by this conflict. 

My second point is that all of this is not enough. The growing 

crisis is outpacing the international response capacity. We have a 

problem of access. The single greatest factor limiting humanitarian 

aid is that we need more access across battle lines; we need crossborder access. We are simply not able to reach everyone in need. 

There are not enough resources. Simply put, there is not enough 

money to reach the scale of this need. We continue to urge all countries to follow through on the generous commitments they made at 

the Pledging Conference in Kuwait in late January. It is imperative 

for all countries to step forward to share the burden. We invite you 

to add your voices to that call. 

Security is a constant concern. Every day I get reports of humanitarian aid workers who have been kidnapped, targeted, and clinics 

19

and bakeries bombed. Just last month, three USAID-funded medical clinics were bombarded, one was destroyed by a mortar shell, 

10 people were killed. So, to protect our humanitarian partners, to 

insure the aid can continue and reach those in need, we are not 

branding much of our assistance, which goes to my third point. 

We are working hard to insure that the Syrian people know the 

United States is the largest donor, and that the American people 

are standing by them in this hour of need. We’re working with our 

partners to find ways to safely and selectively brand, when they 

can, in one of the most dangerous and complex humanitarian environments on earth right now. They are engaging intensively with 

local leaders at every level to make sure they understand where 

the aid is coming from. We’re amplifying our support through official visits to the region, intensive regional media engagement, and 

making a full government-wide push to communicate directly to 

the Syrians. This hearing today is a wonderful opportunity to further that message. So, again, our thanks. 

My fourth and final point is that in addition to humanitarian assistance, as Ambassador Ford has detailed, the U.S. is investing in 

Syria’s transition to help the Syrian Opposition deliver. We recognize they need to deliver on meeting Syrian needs now, so we are 

working with them through offices like the Office of Transition Initiatives to identify priority projects both immediate and longer 

term that can help the Syrians. 

Our continued assistance and support for the Syrian people is a 

vital investment in the stability of a region that’s at the heart of 

our U.S. national security interests, and our humanitarian help is 

a crucial expression of our American values and our solidarity with 

the Syrians at this tragic time. 

We know our humanitarian assistance will not end the bloodshed 

but it is saving millions of lives, and preventing a tragic situation 

from becoming worse. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Lindborg follows:]

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Chairman ROYCE. Thank you very much, Ms. Lindborg. 

I want to ask a question of Ambassador Ford, and it goes to the 

Director of National Intelligence’s comments here to Congress quite 

recently. He said, ‘‘An increasingly beleaguered Syrian regime 

might be prepared to use chemical weapons against the Syrian people.’’

I’d note that, you know, many of us doubt that the Syrian Government would risk triggering foreign interference by deploying 

chemical weapons, but there are reports yesterday of chemical 

weapons use, as you have seen. And I was going to ask you, Ambassador, what could you tell us on that? 

Ambassador FORD. Mr. Chairman, so far we have no evidence to 

substantiate the reports that chemical weapons were used yesterday, but I want to underline that we are looking very carefully at 

these reports. We are consulting with partners in the region and 

in the international community. 

More broadly, we have been very clear from the beginning about 

our concern that as the Assad regime’s military situation deteriorates, and it becomes as the Director of National Intelligence said, 

it becomes ever more beleaguered, that it might be tempted to use 

chemical weapons. And the President has been very clear in saying 

that if Assad and those under his command make the mistake of 

using chemical weapons, or if they fail to meet their obligation to 

secure them, then there will be consequences, and they will be held 

accountable. 

Chairman ROYCE. What would those consequences be, Ambassador? 

Ambassador FORD. Mr. Chairman, in a hearing like this, I absolutely do not want to go into hypotheticals. I do want to underline 

that we take these reports and these possibilities very seriously, 

and we are using all of our available means to determine exactly 

what has happened. 

Chairman ROYCE. Let me raise another point, and that is to the 

transfer of weapons going through Iraq, either over airspace, or by 

land into Syria. Last week we had a report in Reuters that the Iranian regime was increasing its assistance to the Assad regime. 

And, clearly, the observation has been that this is the lifeline. It’s 

not just the foreign fighters, but it’s also the munitions that are 

being flown in, and it’s being flown in by civilian aircraft. Personnel are flying in, by the way, through airspace, as well as the 

weapons, so we see that, we see at the same time Hezbollah on the 

ground now in Syria. 

This has been raised, as I understand it, several times with the 

government in Iraq, but still the government there is ramping this 

up. If we really grasped the strategic opportunity here, it seems 

like one of the easiest things we could do would be to lean on the 

Iraqis and get this process halted. 

So, I was going to ask, how hard has the administration weighed 

in with the Iraqis? What has been tried to get them to cease and 

desist? And how might Congress help make this job a little easier 

for the administration, if that’s what’s necessary here? 

Ambassador FORD. Mr. Chairman, thank you for that. 

26

A couple of things I’d like to note first. The Iranian relationship 

to the Bashar al-Assad regime is not new, but as you noted, their 

assistance to the regime in this conflict has grown substantially. 

I could just cite, for example, that the Iranian Revolutionary 

Guard Corps lost a general in Syria. And they have lost other personnel, as well. And, of course, I don’t want to fail to mention that 

Lebanese Hezbollah is also playing a very pernicious role. And 

there are even reports we are seeing now, Mr. Chairman, of Iraqi 

Shia extremists going to places like the Sayyida Zainab neighborhood of Damascus, and even up to Homs. So, this is a serious problem, and it is absolutely prolonging the conflict. 

We have raised on multiple occasions with Iraqi officials, and I 

have done so myself when I visited Baghdad at the end of last year. 

We had a senior Iraqi official here in Washington 2 weeks ago, and 

we raise it during visits here in Washington, and as well out in 

Baghdad. We will keep pressing the Iraqis. 

We want the Iraqi Government to understand that it has no interest in having an extremist government in Syria, and the longer 

the conflict continues, the greater the influence of extremists on 

the ground. Iraq should be working with us to get to that negotiated settlement that I talked about. 

Chairman ROYCE. You know, it seems to me that with our capacity to put pressure on other governments with respect to trying to 

bring change in Syria, we are certainly missing an opportunity 

here given that the flow of these fighters are over Iraqi territory, 

and they are not assisting. We’re missing the opportunity in terms 

of a direct conversation about the security assistance we’ve provided, and the means whereby we could frankly force Iraq to at 

least be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem here. 

Again, can you think of anything definitive that has been shared 

with the Iraqis on that front? 

Ambassador FORD. Mr. Chairman, let me assure you we have 

had very direct conversations with the Iraqis. I have, our Ambassador in Baghdad, Stephen Beecroft, has, and officials here in 

Washington, the White House and the State Department have. As 

I mentioned, we had a senior official here from Baghdad the week 

before last, and we have been very direct with them about the importance of not allowing Iran to exploit the crisis in Syria, and how 

it is not helpful to Iraqi interests, nor the region’s interests. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you. Mr. Deutch. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll just follow-up on this 

line of questions. 

You’ve pressed the Iraqis, you’ve been direct with the Iraqis. The 

fact is that the transfer of Iranian arms is subject to U.N. embargo. 

There is so much at stake here. Let me try this a different way. 

What specific leverage might the United States employ in those 

direct discussions that are taking place with the Iraqis? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, I don’t want to go into great 

detail here about our diplomatic discussions with the Iraqis, but 

you mentioned the arms embargo and the United Nations resolution, and we have discussed that with the Iraqis. 

In a sense, in the end what matters is that the Government of 

Iraq understand that its own interest is going to be best served not 

by facilitating Iranian efforts to prolong the crisis in Syria, but 

27

rather in bringing about a transitional government that would 

have good relations with the government in Iraq. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Understanding by the Iraqi Government would be 

helpful. Action by the Iraqi Government is what’s necessary to insure that that actually takes place. 

I’d just like to focus on the two kinds of aid that are widely discussed. One is, obviously, military. 

Ambassador Ford, there’s a difference of opinion here on Capitol 

Hill about whether or not to provide direct military assistance to 

the Opposition. The argument is made that it’s really hard to know 

where these weapons are going, that they might wind up in the 

wrong hands, and that as we assess this, it’s just too difficult for 

us, ultimately, to be able to decide how to get this into the right 

Opposition group’s hands. 

Do you agree with that, and the fact that it’s hard? Does 70,000 

now dead Syrians, does that make it easier for us to assess the possibility of doing this? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, first let me say that all of us 

working on the Syrian issue are incredibly saddened by the human 

toll in Syria. I was there, and I visited the people in Hama, and 

they were certainly peaceful. What’s happened to them is atrocious; 

what’s happened to other Syrians is atrocious. 

With respect to direct military assistance, our policy now is not 

to provide military assistance to the Supreme Military Council and 

the Free Syrian Army. We do regularly review this, be very clear 

about that, but our policy is not now to provide such assistance. We 

are, above all, focused in our efforts in convincing both sides of the 

importance of a political solution and getting them to that negotiated political deal. 

We have taken a major step in terms of our relations with the 

Supreme Military Command of the Free Syrian Army by now for 

the first time providing food and medical assistance to it for those 

in Syria in need, but we are not providing direct military assistance. 

Mr. DEUTCH. Mr. Ambassador, I understand that, and I’m not 

suggesting an immediate change. I’m suggesting that this is an important conversation for us to have, and it needs to take place right 

now. 

I’m asking if you agree that it is too difficult for us to identify 

who should receive those arms if the policy were to change. 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, as we review whether or not to 

provide direct military assistance, we do it within the context of 

trying to decide if it would help us get to the political settlement 

that we think is the only way to get to the long-term crisis. So, the 

question you asked is one question, but it is not the only question 

that we take into consideration. 

Mr. DEUTCH. I appreciate that. Let me just turn to Ms. Lindborg 

for a second in my remaining time. 

Ms. Lindborg, I want to thank you. I want to thank you for the 

work that you do. I want to thank you for the work that USAID 

does. 

At the end of your testimony, you commented this hearing is a 

wonderful opportunity for you to further your message. I hope that 

people will focus on your message. I hope that in all of the discusVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:13 May 06, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\WORK\_FULL\032013\80121 HFA PsN: SHIRL
28

sions that take place here about whether or not to provide military 

assistance, and working with the Opposition, and doing all the 

things that we need to, to ultimately push Assad out, that there 

is a very clear understanding about the work that you and the 

agency does every single day, the work that you do every day to 

address this humanitarian crisis. And, most importantly, your efforts as you describe them, to make sure that the Syrian people understand that even as we have all of these other discussions, that 

the United States of America is committed to working to address 

this humanitarian crisis in a very serious, and in a very concerted 

way. 

I want to pass on my sincere thanks, and I hope that you and 

the work gets the attention that it deserves perhaps as a result of 

this hearing. Thank you, and I yield back. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And 

thank you to all of the panelists. 

I wanted to ask three questions, first on the rebels, who are 

these guys? WMD, and thirdly, on the countries that are aiding 

Assad, Russia, Iran, North Korea among them. On the rebels, the 

Syrian rebels lack a cohesive command and control structure, and 

they continue to expand their operations, but to what end? Ambassador Ford, do you believe that there’s great cohesion in the Opposition forces? And, if so, will that stick. 

In the last few months, some Syrian rebels have been designated 

as foreign terrorist organizations linked to al-Qaeda. They’ve captured and detained U.N. peacekeepers after later being released, so 

the U.S. must take necessary precautions to conduct proper oversight and due diligence regarding any aid to these rebels. 

Can you give us more information about the Opposition? They’re 

not just Syrian Nationals, as you point out. You said that they’re 

foreign fighters who also have Islamic militants from neighboring 

countries, so who will govern in a post-Assad Syria? 

And on weapons of mass destruction, are the reports correct that 

the Syrian regime may possess up to 50 tons of weapons-grade nuclear materials in its stockpile? And to inspect, if those reports are 

true, will the U.S. call for an emergency meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency to discuss this? And if Assad does 

not grant IAEA inspectors immediate access to all nuclear facilities 

and stockpiles so that they can be protected and sealed, will the 

U.S. impose immediate comprehensive and painful sanctions? Will 

we do so acting with the European Union? Will we do so only 

through the U.N. Security Council? 

And, lastly, on the countries that are aiding the brutality of 

Assad’s regime, these countries continue to provide military assistance, weaponry. These are North Korea, Russia, Iran, and they 

seek to further the illegal weapons program and supporting these 

foreign terrorist organizations. 

What can we do to hold these regimes accountable for supplying 

the Syrian regime with arms, helicopters, military equipment during this human rights crisis? In light of Russia’s policy in Syria, I 

believe that the Obama administration’s string of concessions to 

Moscow must stop, and I wanted to hear your thoughts on the 

29

rebels, WMD, and what will we do with countries that are helping 

Syria? 

Ambassador FORD. With respect to the rebels and who they are, 

I divide them into two categories. There’s a political opposition, and 

there is a military opposition. Both are not entirely unified; although, on the political side the Coalition headed by Sheik Muaz 

al-Khatib, the Coalition that chose Ghassan Hitto yesterday as 

Prime Minister, are becoming more and more unified. And they 

have representatives from both inside the country, as well as outside the country. 

On the armed opposition side, they have established a Supreme 

Military Command headed by a man named General Salim Idris, 

whom I have met several times. He has said to us and to others 

that he will respect a political deal worked out by the political opposition; that is to say, he does not perceive that the Free Syrian 

Army should have a political role in the future of Syria. 

To be very frank, Congresswoman, that is one of the reasons we 

decided to provide direct food and medical assistance to Idris and 

his command to help him within the context of the broader Syrian 

opposition. 

Let me add, also, with respect to your question on weapons of 

mass destruction, even when I went out as an Ambassador several 

years ago, this was a huge issue for us. And it has, if anything, become even more of a concern given our worries about the regime 

in its desperate military situation using chemical weapons. So, let 

me assure you, we continue to talk regularly to the International 

Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna. We continue to urge that the 

Syrian regime be completely transparent with the IAEA about 

what it has been doing with respect to its nuclear program. 

With respect to access, we have long wanted that. We argued for 

it consistently. I think now with the fighting in the area, we would 

have to figure out if the IAEA itself would want to go. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you. And you can address that at another time, the other question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the 

time. Thank you, Ambassador. 

Chairman ROYCE. Thank you. We’ll go to David Cicilline. 

Mr. CICILLINE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for 

convening this important hearing. Thank you to the witnesses for 

your testimony. 

I have two questions, one for Ambassador Ford. Secretary Kerry 

has said that the policy of the United States is to change Assad’s 

calculations so that he will cease the killing, and agree to some negotiations, and some cease fire. And I’d like your assessment as to 

whether or not there’s any evidence that Assad has begun to 

change his calculation in that direction, and whether or not there 

is a set of individuals that the Opposition might be prepared to negotiate with, and whether the Geneva Framework makes any 

sense, or is still something that has some prospect for resolution? 

And the second area, I also want to thank Ms. Lindborg for the 

work you and your agency are doing, as Ranking Member Deutch 

referred to. I really hope that people understand the value of it, 

and thank you for your testimony. 

I am particularly interested if you would share with us some of 

the work that’s being done to protect Syrian women and girls. 

30

There have been reports both from a recent U.N. report, and the 

general media about the really devastating consequences of this 

conflict on women and the rape of Syrian women who are fleeing 

Syria to host countries where they’re not finding any better conditions, and incidences of rape, forced marriage, and child marriages 

and the like. If you could share with us some of the work that’s 

being done to protect Syrian girls and women, I’d be grateful. Ambassador Ford, we could start with you. 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, with respect to changing 

Bashar al-Assad’s calculations, I’m not a psychiatrist, and I have 

seen his press statements where he said he would never leave 

Syria. We’ve seen that. Maybe he’s telling the truth. I don’t know. 

We also know, Congressman, that the military balance is turning 

against the regime. They lost a provincial capital at the end of February, the regime’s governor and other senior officials were actually 

captured. They’ve lost control of the border along Turkey and Iraq. 

There is heavy fighting now in Damascus, itself. In fact, we’ve been 

getting messages from Syrians inside Syria and Damascus that 

there was heavy fighting right up close to where the President 

lives. Certainly, it would have been rattling his windows. 

Will he then decide to negotiate and to save himself? We want 

a negotiated political deal as the best means to get a sustainable 

new government. That has to be, in a sense, agreed upon by the 

different sides to the conflict. That does not mean we will ask the 

Supreme Military Command to implement a cease fire, but we 

would like to see negotiations. 

I was struck that the regime has now offered to send a delegation headed by the Syrian Prime Minister, but I don’t know if that 

is serious, and it has to be to discuss not a Bashar al-Assad reform 

program, but rather the Geneva Framework for a transition government in which Assad has no part. 

Ms. LINDBORG. Congressman, thank you very much for your 

question. I will start by just saying when I was there in January, 

I met with a group of young activists, including young women who 

have now had to give up their dreams of being lawyers and finishing their college education. 

On International Women’s Day, I got a series of text messages 

from them to promote a campaign they had organized called ‘‘I am 

SHE,’’ that we had supported, very much focused on bringing to attention the special needs of women in conflict. This is an issue we 

take seriously globally. 

In Syria, through the hospitals that we’re supporting, we’ve also 

brought in rape kits, and counselors. It is in the immediate aftermath of a sexual assault that it’s so important to get treatment. 

We are also working with partners to provide special counseling for 

the many, many children who are affected by this, who are traumatized now. 

This has impact for the rest of your life—to go through this. 

Many children are being caught in the crossfire, as are the women, 

and it is brutal. 

And my colleague, Anne, might want to say something about the 

particular plight of women in refugee camps. 

Ms. RICHARD. We are working with UNHCR in Jordan, and 

UNFPA in Turkey to insure that aid is provided to women and 

31

girls who have suffered as they fled from Syria. We’ve heard very 

credible reports that one of the things they’re fleeing from is the 

threat or actual rape. 

In the Zaatari refugee camp, we are giving funding to NGOs so 

that they can meet the needs of Syrian women and children. So, 

we take the issue very, very seriously, and thank you for raising 

it. 

Chairman ROYCE. We’ll go now to Mr. Steve Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

There was an article which appeared in, I believe, National Review recently. It was entitled, ‘‘The Silent Exodus of Syria’s Christians.’’ And it started out 2 million or so, and it’s to some degree 

similar to Iraq when there was the war taking place there. Christians were being targeted, murder, kidnapping, rape, you name it, 

all kinds of horrific things happening. And, of course, there’s been 

a relationship to some degree between the regime and some in the 

Christian community, as well, so that clearly exists, and is somewhat of a complicating factor, as well. 

There are particular threat from Islamic groups, and my question 

would be what has the administration been doing about that, what 

should we be doing? One quote in the article was, ‘‘The ethno religious cleansing taking place could soon see Syria emptied of Christians,’’ for example. And, apparently, it hasn’t been getting a tremendous amount of coverage in the media overall compared to a 

lot of other things. Ms. Lindborg, would you want to touch on that 

particular issue? 

Ms. LINDBORG. Yes. Thank you for your question. I think this underscores the fragmentation that’s happening in Syria, and the 

ways in which so many particular groups are being targeted and 

threatened. 

We provide humanitarian assistance on the basis of need regardless of who you are. We are seeking to get into all the 14 

Governorates. Many of the Christian communities are concentrated 

in what’s called the Christian Valley between Homs and Tartus, 

and Aleppo, and we are definitely insuring that assistance is getting there through our partners, as well as in a few pockets in the 

suburbs of Damascus. 

This is something that we’re definitely watching along with all 

the groups that are particularly vulnerable. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. Either one of the other witnesses want 

to touch on this? Ambassador? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, a couple of things I would like 

to emphasize. First, I was in Iraq for almost 5 years, and I saw 

what happened to the Iraqi Christian community, and it was terrible. Even now, they’re still often under threat, those who remain. 

So, I’m very sensitive to that. The administration is very, very sensitive to that. 

A couple of things I just want to highlight. First, we are deeply 

concerned about the threat of Islamist extremists within the Syrian 

Opposition. That is why the administration designated the alNusra Front in December 2012 as an affiliate of the al-Qaeda organization in Iraq. And we did that specifically to warn others in the 

Syrian Opposition of the risks that they take by working with alNusra Front. 

32

And I’m encouraged, Congressman, that there have been instances now where other Syrians who want a tolerant society, other 

Syrians who believe that all Syrians should be treated equally 

without respect to their religion or their ethnicity, are starting to 

push back in some instances against al-Nusra on the ground. But 

there is a great deal of concern. 

Second thing, I just want to assure you, I mentioned I have met 

people from the Free Syrian Army, from the Supreme Military 

Command, and we have highlighted the worries of minority groups, 

Alawites and Christians, not that we are against the Sunni Majority of Syria, we are not, but the minorities are nervous, and their 

rights must be protected and respected. And we hear good things 

from them. And I can tell you, for example, that they have met 

Christian leaders from some of the communities in Syria, and have 

told us afterwards that their meetings were positive. We have to 

keep pushing in that direction. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. In the short time I have left, if you 

could just, Mr. Ambassador, touch on the chemical weapons issues. 

The administration’s called it a red line, and there have been reports, you know, as recently in the last 24 hours about what’s actually happening on the ground, whether they have been used, 

whether they will be used. If you could just talk about what the 

administration is doing to prevent the transfer of these weapons to 

groups like Hezbollah, and others? Thank you. 

Ambassador FORD. We view this issue with extreme seriousness, 

Congressman. It is incredibly important to us, so we approach it 

on several fronts. 

Right now, we are trying to verify the reports that we have seen 

recently about the use. There are reports of their being used both 

in the North, and in the Damascus suburbs, the Eastern suburbs 

of Damascus. So, we’re trying to verify those reports with our 

means. We’re talking to our partners about what they have been 

able to find out. 

In addition, we have had regular discussions with other countries 

that have interests in Syria, who have influence with the Syrians 

to (a) urge that the Syrian regime not use these weapons and, instead, maintain tight control over them. And (b) to pass the warning that there would be consequences, and there would be accountability for those members of the regime that would ever think of 

using these things and would deploy them. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROYCE. We’ll go now to Mr. Albio Sires. 

Mr. SIRES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Ambassador, I listen and I read all the comments regarding 

Syria, and I always read about these key words, that we want to 

negotiate, we want to talk, we want a political solution, dialogue 

is the best way to go. 

My concern is that this man is a criminal now, what he’s done 

to his people. So, if you come to a solution where there’s dialogue, 

where somehow he says all right, let’s talk, somewhere along the 

line he has to be held responsible for what he’s done to his people, 

I mean, brought to court. So, I hope that in this idea of dialogue 

and conversation, and those key words that I read all the time on 

33

all these articles, that somewhere along the line he is held responsible for the criminal act that he’s portrayed on his people. 

Ambassador FORD. Several things on that, Congressman. First, 

we don’t say dialogue because for us this is not about having a conversation between the Opposition and the regime. This is about negotiating——

Mr. SIRES. Well, it’s the same thing. 

Ambassador FORD. To me, they’re very different meanings, and 

they matter here. 

Mr. SIRES. Well, we’ve got to negotiate him into jail. 

Ambassador FORD. They matter here because we’re talking about 

him stepping down, not dialoguing but him stepping down, and setting up a new transition governing body. 

Now, with respect to accountability, we have said he should be 

held accountable, and that members of his regime with buckets of 

blood on their hands also should be held accountable. We are actually helping train Syrian investigators to prepare dossiers. We are 

showing them—this is ongoing activity that we are doing, the State 

Department’s Democracy and Human Rights Bureau is undertaking this along with Stephen Rapp, our Ambassador-at-Large for 

War Crimes. We are training Syrian investigators so that they can 

prepare dossiers to be used at an eventual court proceeding. The 

Syrians, themselves, ultimately will have to decide by what mechanisms they will hold people accountable. That can’t be something 

that we dictate to them. But we are anxious to provide them the 

capability to pursue people in this way. 

Mr. SIRES. Thank you. Can you talk a little bit about the role of 

Russia? They seem to be coy. I know they’re supportive and, you 

know, yesterday I think the Ambassador said that the people who 

first used chemical were the rebels. Can you talk a little bit about 

the usual coyness? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, we saw the Russian statement 

that the rebels, Free Syrian Army, yesterday used chemical weapons. I just want to say we have no evidence to corroborate that, and 

we’re very skeptical of it. We’ll look at it, but our initial impression 

is we’re very skeptical. 

With respect to the Russian position, they say that they are not 

attached to Bashar al-Assad, and they say they would accept a 

transition governing body. They signed up to the Geneva Framework that I have talked about. However, we would like Russia to 

go far, far beyond that. 

We would like Russia, first of all, to stop delivering arms systems 

to the Syrian Government. And this is an ongoing conversation 

that we have with them. We would also like the Russians to join 

the rest of the international community in the very tight economic 

sanctions regime which we have developed with the Europeans, 

with countries in the Middle East, with the Japanese and other 

countries. We would welcome the Russians joining that, all with 

the goal of getting to a sustainable political solution. 

Mr. SIRES. And can you talk about the issue of branding a little 

bit? It seems that we can’t put our name on some of the food or 

whatever material that we deliver to Syria for various concerns. 

How would they know that we are the ones assisting them? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman——

34

Mr. SIRES. My——

Ambassador FORD. Sorry. 

Mr. SIRES. No, go ahead. 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, I’m happy to share a little bit. 

I would encourage Assistant Administrator Lindborg to talk about 

this since it’s more her people and her programs. But we understand the utility of Syrians seeing $385 million in American assistance going in to help Syrians in need. We are the largest bilateral 

donor. And there are some places where we have been able to do 

branding, but in other places there are security issues. Nancy, do 

you want to say more? 

Ms. LINDBORG. Yes, I would just simply add that we evaluate 

this every day and look at every opportunity to see where we can 

brand safely. Ultimately, we need to provide assistance in a way 

that insures that it gets to the people, and that we are able to save 

lives in this really, really difficult crisis. 

If we do so in a way that further endangers the aid workers, it 

threatens not only our very brave colleagues, but it also will shut 

down the overall enterprise. So, it’s a delicate balance, and as a result, we’re also looking at all the other ways to get the word out, 

all the other ways to communicate directly to the Syrian people 

that the American people are standing with them. 

Mr. SIRES. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROYCE. Adam Kinzinger. 

Mr. KINZINGER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you all for 

coming and being here. 

Mr. Ambassador, I understand that you are not the President, 

but you’ve probably been in some conversations that I haven’t. One 

of the reasons this hearing is so important is because I can kind 

of take you on a journey right now. I want to ask you to go on that 

journey with me. This journey is trying to figure out what our foreign policy is, because I’ve had a very hard time doing that. 

I’ve been stumped. I’m stumped on the answer in Syria, I’ll be 

honest. I don’t know what the answer is, and part of the reason is 

that we’ve waited so long to really do anything. 

To an extent, it reminds me of how we were reactive in Iran in 

2009 when we saw a really good opportunity to support a popular 

uprising against the regime. So, we find ourselves in a situation 

now where I feel, maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like we’re reacting 

to the situation. And I wonder, if we go back to the beginning of 

this conflict, we go back to the initial uprising against Assad, 

where you have Iran basically supporting the Syrian regime on one 

end, and you have theoretically Freedom Fighters on the other end. 

Now, I understand that we didn’t know at that time who the 

rebels were, and there were some questions. But, at that time you 

can pretty much assume that extremism did not have the ability 

to organize to the great extent that they’re probably organized now, 

which gives us the concern in the Opposition on what we have. 

So at the beginning, and I’m asking you because you were hopefully in these conversations, what were our reasons for not supporting an uprising with lethal aid, or non-lethal aid against a regime that is supported by Iran, and continues to cause problems 

in the Middle East? And I’ll ask you to keep it short because I actually have a lot here I want to ask, so go ahead. 

35

Ambassador FORD. To be very brief, Congressman, I personally 

don’t agree that we waited so long, on the ground there. We were 

helping democracy activists when I was in Syria in 2011, and we 

were doing a lot to help. 

Mr. KINZINGER. What was the reason for withholding lethal aid 

at that time? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, for a long time, Syrians themselves didn’t want outside interference in their uprising, what they 

called the revolution. For a long time, through 2011, the Syrians 

themselves wanted their demonstrations to be peaceful. They did 

not want foreign armed intervention. In fact, they were bitterly 

criticizing Hezbollah and Iran for their intervention. 

Mr. KINZINGER. Respectfully, I understand that. I’m talking 

about when it went to a shooting war. And again, as I’m saying 

this, I am literally trying to figure this out because I don’t know 

the answer today. This is a difficult quandary. 

Let me ask another question. When we talk about the red line, 

and we talk about the use of chemical weapons, I know this has 

been hammered especially by the chairman, but we’re going to find 

out what happened. It’s just a matter of time. We’re going to find 

out if chemical weapons were used, and who used them. I feel like 

we have a red line that is supposed to be exactly that: A red line; 

a point you don’t cross. I heard what I assume the President was 

saying is that if you use chemical weapons, that is the red line. 

Now, I hear that there is a kind of a shifting red line to no, no, 

no, we’re talking about the transfer of chemical weapons, and not 

necessarily using them against your own people. So, it seems more 

like a cyan line, or a yellow line. 

I think in my mind, a red line is to make it very clear; if you 

use chemical weapons against your own people, we will devastate 

your ability to use chemical weapons. The result of that will be a 

deep, deep thinking about whether we’ll use chemical weapons 

against our own people, because we know our ability to do so will 

be devastated. 

Let me ask you just one or two more questions. How does Russia 

and Iran specifically see our policy in Syria? Are they frightened 

of our involvement of Syria because it will affect their interest, or 

are they happy with our situation in Syria right now, and the approach we’re taking, Mr. Ambassador? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, I’m not the spokesman for the 

Russian or Iranian Foreign Ministry——

Mr. KINZINGER. Well, you probably have a gut feeling. 

Ambassador FORD. Let me just say a couple of things. First, the 

very nature of the Iranian actions in Syria now suggest to me that 

they’re very nervous about the Assad regime’s long-term prospects. 

They are plussing up their assistance, they’re plussing up their 

people on the ground, they’re plussing up what they’re sending in. 

That doesn’t sound like a confident stance, to me. That sounds like 

they’re nervous, and they ought to be nervous. 

I mentioned before about how the military balance has shifted 

strongly against the regime in a war of attrition. 

Mr. KINZINGER. But, is it a nervousness because of the situation 

on the ground, or because of specifically what we’re doing? I’m asking, are we helping that nervousness, or are we just kind of not? 

36

Ambassador FORD. Absolutely, we help that nervousness, Congressman. Let me give you an example. You know, a lot of this war 

is being fought on video. 

Mr. KINZINGER. Right. 

Ambassador FORD. And much of the equipment that provides the 

YouTube videos that you and I see, that actually comes from us. 

Mr. KINZINGER. Good. 

Ambassador FORD. We are the ones that are helping the Opposition both get information from the outside world through the internet, and also to upload stuff back to the rest of planet Earth. 

For example, the chairman in his opening remarks talked about 

the devastation to the City of Homs. 

Mr. KINZINGER. Right. 

Ambassador FORD. We have worked very closely with the Homs 

Provincial Revolution Council to make sure they can stay in touch 

with planet Earth. 

Mr. KINZINGER. Thank you. And again, I do appreciate your service. One thing that I want to add though, as I close, is that I hope 

that this is not an extension of what was made famous a few years 

ago, the lead from behind strategy. I think when America retreats 

from the world, chaos ensues. So, I hope this is not an extension 

of that. I’m not saying it is, but that’s something I wanted to say. 

Thank you all for your service, and I yield back. 

Chairman ROYCE. Bradley Schneider. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to the 

witnesses for joining us here today. 

Ambassador Ford, I’ll to you again, initially. As you stated, our 

goals currently are to see the Assad regime leave as soon as possible, to have a negotiated settlement, retaining Syria’s national 

unity, and fostering an emergence of a new Syrian Government 

that enhances, rather than lessens the security within Syria and 

around the region. 

As we look at that, and we’re developing our strategy, what 

events, trends, or other developments might be indications that our 

desired or stated objectives aren’t achievable? And if we start to see 

those, what are our best alternatives if national unity isn’t achievable? 

Ambassador FORD. We worry, Congressman, about the collapse of 

the state. And I don’t mean the government of Bashar al-Assad, we 

think he’s going to go in any case sooner or later, but collapse of 

the state institutions. We have seen that in other places, including 

in the Middle East, and we do not want to see the Syrian Government disappear. The institutions of state, the judiciary, a police 

force that is able to maintain law and order, banks, financial systems, et cetera, so infrastructure, electricity. 

Where we see that degrading further, that would be a sign that 

things are going even worse, will create more refugee flows, will 

help extremists. And that is why we are increasing our assistance 

to these areas which have been liberated from government control, 

and where state institutions, frankly, are failing. So, we are directly now helping local administrative councils, which have been 

set up by the Syrian revolution. 

We will work very closely with Prime Minister Ghassan Hitto to 

funnel assistance into these local councils so that they can prevent 

37

the full collapse of state institutions. I think that is our biggest 

concern in terms of maintaining unity, and keeping Syria from 

being an operating base for terrorists, extremists, helping maintain 

security. That’s the main thing. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. But if unity is not achieved, or achievable, what 

is our best alternative? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, I think today, March 20th, we 

can get to a solution that maintains the unity of Syria. The different groups in Syria represented in this Coalition that I talked 

about all want to maintain Syria’s unity, even the people, the foot 

soldiers of Bashar al-Assad’s ruthless army are not calling for the 

division of the country. I don’t think Syrians are looking to divide 

their state. So, we have to figure out a way to get a negotiated 

agreement where everyone feels safe within a unified Syria. 

It could be that the government is going to look entirely different 

from how this last government did. It certainly has to with respect 

to its treatment of citizens in terms of dignity and respect for 

human rights. But I can imagine lots of political scenarios where 

you can work out deals between the groups. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. And taking it a little more regionally, as was 

mentioned before, we have refugees, I’m looking to the whole panel 

now, refugees in Turkey, 200,000, 400,000, overwhelming in Jordan, we’re seeing in Lebanon. Long-term this becomes not just a 

financial burden, but a political risk to these countries in the region, and the region as a whole. 

What do we need to make sure, and how can Congress help make 

sure that we do everything necessary so that that does not happen? 

Ms. RICHARD. Thank you for asking, Congressman. In our conversations with these neighboring countries, they have explained to 

us the strains and the burdens that this is putting on their societies. There are economic strains, and they are also sometimes tensions between the groups in those countries, like in Lebanon, for 

example. We were talking before about Christians, I was thinking 

about how Christians and Muslims live together in Lebanon, but 

when you have these extra burdens put on a country, it can really 

provoke tensions among different communities. 

So, what Congress can do is continue to provide assistance so 

that we can support these countries. In some cases, such as Jordan, 

we have a bilateral assistance relationship. In the case of Lebanon, 

we really prefer to work through international organizations. And 

even in Turkey can do discreet things by providing assistance 

through non-governmental organizations, or have technical experts 

from the international organizations provide assistance, even 

though the Turks are very much in the lead of their own camps. 

I realize that asking for more money at this current time and 

this environment on Capitol Hill, I don’t have to tell you that that 

sort of goes against the grain, but that is the key way that we can 

convert our good intentions to real live aid, and make a difference 

in people’s lives on the ground. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. If there’s time. 

Ms. LINDBORG. Well, I will just add that I detail out in my testimony some of the ways in which we’re working to help the communities who are stretched and strained by the influx of refugees, and 

working directly with the governments of these countries to provide 

38

additional support. So, it’s an important question, and one that 

we’re deeply focused on. 

Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you. 

Chairman ROYCE. Mr. Scott Perry. 

Mr. PERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you folks on 

the panel for your attendance and your testimony. Probably most 

of my questions will be addressed to Ambassador Ford. Thank you, 

sir. 

I’m wondering regarding the red line, and I know we’ve kind of 

kicked this horse a bit, but I want to get some specifics, if I could, 

if you know them. What are the possible consequences? I share 

your skepticism of the current reports, but let’s say that they are 

true, or let’s say they become true at some point, what are the 

ranges of possible consequences that the American people can expect from the administration as a response? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, I really do not want to speculate here about hypothetical situations. What I do want to underline is that the President has said there will be consequences, and 

that we will seek strongly that the people who use chemical weapons be held accountable. Exactly what those consequences would do 

today, I cannot speculate on. 

Mr. PERRY. Have they been discussed? Have consequences been 

discussed that you know of? 

Ambassador FORD. I am very certain, Congressman, that they 

have been discussed. But, again, I don’t want to speculate on what 

the hypothetical possibilities are. I just—I do not want to go there. 

I do want to underline how seriously we take the reports. 

Mr. PERRY. I appreciate that, but I think it is important for the 

world to know, for Congress to know, for Americans to know what 

we can expect to see, at what point, so we can have that discussion, 

because if it happens, and when it happens, it will be very quick, 

and we don’t want to be in a position of Monday morning quarter 

backing after-the-fact, and making sure we got it right. I understand your reluctance to provide that information, but I think it’s 

important for the American people to know. 

And I’m not talking about hypothetical situations. I mean, we 

have to have a plan, and we should know with the caveat that 

there are certain security requirements, to know what those plans 

are, what those possibilities are. 

With that, do we know with any certainty what kind of WMDs, 

if that’s what we’re discussing, whether it’s sarin gas, or whether 

it’s choking agents, or blister—what are we talking about? Do we 

know? 

Ambassador FORD. Syria has, the Syrian Government has the 

largest stocks of chemical weapons of any country in the region, 

and it includes the things that you mentioned. So, because we cannot yet state with certainty that chemical weapons have been used 

in the last days, I cannot tell you what happened. 

I can tell you that we have a large team of people working on 

it right now. And I understand your concerns about explaining to 

the American people, but I think first we need to understand what 

exactly has happened, if anything. 

Mr. PERRY. I would agree with you. However, right now we’re 

looking at the anniversary of Iraq, and a lot of folks are quesVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:13 May 06, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00042 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\WORK\_FULL\032013\80121 HFA PsN: SHIRL
39

tioning what happened there, and why did we do that, and what 

did we get out of it? And it’s topical because we don’t want to end 

up there again, and we should learn from those mistakes. And 

right now I’m not sure that the American people have the confidence of what the plan is. 

Of course, having no clue what the plan is, we don’t want the 

current administration to make the mistakes of any of the past administrations. With that, and with your characterization of the 

stockpiles that Syria has, I think the American people, and I think 

the world see two outcomes here. 

I mean, Assad has very little impetus to do anything but stay 

there. If he leaves willingly, he’s going to be tried for war crimes 

and spend his life in prison. I think that’s a fait accompli at this 

point. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I see. So, I’m wondering 

what safeguards are being put in place regarding cross-border material transportation of the things that we’ve discussed? 

Ambassador FORD. We understand the risk you’re talking about, 

Congressman, in terms of leakage of materials, which is why we 

have underlined to the Syrian authorities, and to their friends that 

these materials have to stay in their sites, and they have to stay 

secure. 

Mr. PERRY. And let me just clarify, the Syrian authorities you’re 

talking about are the ones that are currently in power? 

Ambassador FORD. Correct. But I would also say, I mentioned 

that I have met General Idris, and we have also told him that we 

would view their using these kinds of weapons also as completely 

unacceptable. 

Mr. PERRY. But just one last question, Mr. Chairman, with all 

due respect. 

What safeguards—have you discussed any safeguards regarding 

border control of these agents, other than telling the current regime don’t do anything with them, don’t move them. What are we 

doing proactively to make sure they don’t end up in the wrong 

hands, or on our shores, or affecting our interests around the 

globe? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, they have the neighboring 

states, Iraq, Turkey, Jordan, and Lebanon. We have different kinds 

of bilateral programs with Iraq, with Jordan, with Lebanon. Certainly, with Turkey, again, we have a regular conversation on the 

question of the Syrian chemical weapons stock, and what is to be 

done about it. So, what I can tell you here is that all of the countries are sensitive to the risks. 

We are looking to be helpful with them to address those risks, 

and each government is taking different responses according to its 

differing needs. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN [presiding]. Thank you very much, Ambassador. Thank you, sir. Mr. Faleomavaega. 

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I want to 

thank the members of our panel for their testimonies this morning. 

I just wanted to ask Secretary Richard, with the depth of your 

understanding of refugee issues, and in your capacity as the Assistant Secretary, what is happening in Syria? Do you see a similar 

pattern in terms of what took place also in Rwanda and Darfur in 

terms of the crisis that we’re facing in Syria today? Are we dealing 

40

with the same situation that we found ourselves in with Rwanda 

and Darfur? 

Ms. RICHARD. The difference between Syria and Rwanda is that 

Rwanda was carried out by large numbers of people using very 

simple implements, machetes, and they set upon their neighbors 

and they slaughtered them over a very quick period of time. 

In Syria, we see months and months going on that people are 

being killed by their own government, and that they are being 

killed from the sky. Some of the refugees we spoke to in Jordan 

were talking about barrel bombs that would be dropped, so they 

weren’t killing face-to-face. The barrel bombs would come down, explode, and take out large groups of people. The shrapnel would go 

sideways, they would maim and injure children, the elderly, ill people. And then, also, as Robert has discussed with me, Scuds are 

now being used to just destroy whole city blocks. 

So, it’s probably more efficient to use that kind of awful weaponry from the sky. And the results then are the same: Lots, and 

lots, and lots of innocent lives lost, and a very completely senseless 

waste of life. 

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Ambassador Ford, you mentioned earlier 

that our current policy is that no military assistance is to be given 

to the Syrian Opposition forces. However, it’s okay for Russia, Iran, 

and even North Korea to continue to supply the Syrian Assad’s regime with all the military equipment, things that they needed so 

that he can continue killing his own people. 

Do you see somewhat of a contradiction here in terms of the U.S. 

just being an observer in all this, while the killing continues because of countries like Russia and Iran? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman——

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. And, by the way, Iraq allows Iran airspace 

to transfer so-called medical supplies, and I’m told it’s not. It’s all 

military hardware that Assad needs to continue his killing spree. 

Can you help us figure this out? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, our policy is not to give military assistance. That is, actually, exactly factually right. However, 

it is not factually right to say that the United States thinks that 

it is okay for other countries to provide assistance to the Assad regime. 

I did say already that we have urged the Russians not to send 

military equipment to the Assad regime. I have said already that 

we’ve asked the Russians to join us and the rest of the international community in putting pressure on the Assad regime. 

We, Congressman, have been at the forefront of countries denouncing Iranian behavior in Syria. It was the United States that 

first started talking about it publicly. And the same with North 

Korea. We have had sanctions in place on Iran and North Korea, 

as well as on the Syrian regime precisely because of this kind of 

behavior which we find destabilizing not only in Syria, but to the 

broader Middle East region. 

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. To follow up on Chairman Chabot’s question 

on the chemical and biological weapons, I’m told, at least according 

to reports in July of last year, that the Syrian officials had given 

every assurance that the stockpiles of the chemical weapons—primarily nerve gas and mustard gas—are fully secured under the suVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:13 May 06, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00044 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\WORK\_FULL\032013\80121 HFA PsN: SHIRL
41

pervision of the military, and will never be used unless Syria faces 

external aggression. 

I’m sure you’re quite familiar with that. Does that sound like an 

invitation from the Assad regime? Just make my day, go ahead and 

attack us and see what will happen. Does that seem to be the danger that we face ourselves if this should ever take place? 

Ambassador FORD. We’ve studied those remarks very carefully, 

Congressman. And you have hit exactly what concerns us, is that 

as the military balance shifts steadily against the regime, and it 

grows more beleaguered and more desperate, that they will try 

some ruse and end up using them themselves. And that is why we 

take the reports the last couple of days very seriously, and we’re 

trying to determine what’s happened. 

Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Faleomavaega, Ambassador. Mr. Weber is recognized. 

Mr. WEBER. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

I missed much of the hearing because I had another one I had 

to be at, so forgive me if some of these questions are redundant. 

Ambassador, would you outline for me whether it’s Hezbollah, alQaeda, whether the external forces that are working in Syria to 

overthrow Assad, kind of in order of their strength, if you will, in 

your opinion. And then let’s go a step further than that and outline 

for me what you see a post-Assad Syria looking like. Who has the 

most—who winds up with the most power after he leaves? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, there is a variety of external 

actors now in the Syria crisis. Some are trying to help the government——

Mr. WEBER. I’ve got time, go ahead and describe it. 

Ambassador FORD [continuing]. And there are some that are trying to get rid of them, like the al-Qaeda affiliate, Jabhat al-Nusra. 

We think the Jabhat al-Nusra still is a minority within the armed 

Opposition, maybe 10, 15 percent. 

Mr. WEBER. Who’s the number one external influence, al-Qaeda? 

Ambassador FORD. Against the regime, yes, it would be. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. Number two? 

Ambassador FORD. And then there are other countries that are 

also involved in the fight against Assad’s regime, but what concerns us are the extremists at the top of that list. There are others, 

but at the top of that list. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay, enumerate the extremists for me. 

Ambassador FORD. There are a variety of groups fighting in different cities against the regime. I’ll just throw out some names. 

One of them is called the Hawks of Syria, Saqur al-Sham, one is 

called——

Mr. WEBER. How strong are they? 

Ambassador FORD. Smaller than Jabhat al-Nusra, but their 

strength varies location to location. A lot of these are very localized 

groups, Congressman. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. 

Ambassador FORD. What’s interesting about Jabhat al-Nusra is 

it has a national command, and it’s more dangerous that way. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. 

Ambassador FORD. You asked what would a post-Assad——

42

Mr. WEBER. The influence of those groups on a post-Assad government. 

Ambassador FORD. Yes. The Supreme Military Command of the 

Free Syrian Army, General Idris and his people, did not allow alNusra and extremists groups to join that military command. We 

think that they will resist the influence of those groups after Assad 

departs. And I mentioned already that in Syria we see some places 

where extremist groups have tried to impose religious courts, and 

generated a very negative reaction near Aleppo, and also down in 

the Damascus area, for example, most recently in Eastern Syria in 

a place called Mayadin. 

We have seen places where Jabhat al-Nusra has tried to impose 

imams in mosques replacing them with foreigners instead of Syrian 

imams. And, again, it’s generated a very negative reaction. 

Mr. WEBER. In your opinion, is that a good thing for American 

sentiments? 

Ambassador FORD. What I think is important, Congressman, is 

that in this Syrian uprising, in this revolution there are two competing visions of a future Syria. One is an Islamist extremist vision 

supported by this al-Qaeda affiliate and others, and there is a vision promoted that would be of a tolerant Syria which respects the 

rights of all Syrians equally. 

We want to weigh in strongly on behalf of those who advocate 

that second vision, and that is what we are——

Mr. WEBER. Well, I get that. That goes without saying. What is 

the percentage chance that that’s what’s going to happen? What we 

don’t want to happen is for any arms—we don’t want them to wind 

up in anti-American hands, let’s face it. 

Ambassador FORD. We understand that, Congressman. 

Mr. WEBER. Go ahead. So, what’s the percentage of likelihood in 

your opinion of that happening? 

Ambassador FORD. Secretary Kerry during his visit to the Middle 

East recently highlighted that we are increasingly confident that 

countries that are providing assistance can do so in ways such that 

arms do not get in the hands of extremists. This is something that, 

frankly, we talk to them daily about. 

Mr. WEBER. Does Assad know that? 

Ambassador FORD. Oh, absolutely he knows that. 

Mr. WEBER. Okay. Would you call him and tell him, in case—you 

know, make sure that he knows that? 

Now, let——

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, I think today he has not yet 

decided that his days are numbered, and that he’s going to have 

to leave. 

Mr. WEBER. What advice would you give us to expedite that decision? 

Ambassador FORD. I hope the Congress will work with us to 

strengthen the Syrian Opposition. I hope that Congress will support our efforts. We’ve talked about Iraq and its role. We need all 

the pressure we can get on the Iraqis to get them to see where 

their long-term interests are best found. 

We need, also, to show political support to the vision of Syria 

that I mentioned, that is of a tolerant society where there is coexistence——

43

Mr. WEBER. We will certainly be doing that. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you. 

Mr. WEBER. Thank you. My time is expired. Thank you, Madam 

Chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Randy. Ms. Bass of 

California is recognized. 

Ms. BASS. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. 

I want to follow-up on a couple of the points that the Ambassador was just making. And forgive me for also being in and out. 

You might have answered some of these questions, but you mentioned that Congress could be helpful by helping to strength the 

Syrian Opposition. That’s where I wanted to center my questions, 

because you describe two centers of power, the military, and then 

we have this interim Prime Minister who, I guess, was voted in 

yesterday with 35 votes out of 63 members of the Coalition. 

So, with these centers of power like this, just want you to elaborate a little more. My concern would be—and I know a lot of my 

colleagues would like to see us arm the Opposition, but I’m definitely concerned as to who this is we would be arming, since some 

of these folks are from Assad’s military who’ve defected, and correct 

me if I’m wrong. 

But what do you think about whether the military will be willing 

to subordinate itself to political leadership? And then this leader 

who was just elected, it just reminds me of Karzai. He hasn’t been 

in the country for a couple of decades, and he seems pretty weak 

by everybody’s account. 

Ambassador FORD. A couple of things. Thank you, Congresswoman. A couple of things. 

I understand the concerns about arming and our policy, again, is 

today——

Ms. BASS. I know. 

Ambassador FORD [continuing]. Not to provide armed assistance. 

Ms. BASS. At this point, I’m glad. 

Ambassador FORD. With respect to the political side, we think—

let me say a couple of things about the Prime Minister that they 

selected yesterday, that was elected. He was happily in Texas, and 

gave up his work there to go and work on behalf of Syrians, and 

in particular to help organize humanitarian assistance efforts, in 

fact, and Nancy’s people in Turkey worked with him there. And he 

made a very favorable impression. He is a capable manager. 

Ms. BASS. Isn’t that Karzai’s background? Wasn’t he happily in 

Texas, too? 

Ambassador FORD. I’m not an expert about Afghanistan, so I 

can’t address that question. 

Ms. BASS. Okay, I’m sorry. 

Ambassador FORD. But what I would say to you is, in the end, 

the Syrian Opposition itself has said that a transitional government will have to be established. So, whether or not Ghassan Hitto 

has a role in that, I think is not determined. We view this as a 

short-term step to help provide services, to help provide humanitarian assistance into areas of Syria liberated from regime control. 

And that’s how he defines his role. He spoke yesterday to the press 

in Turkey about that. 

44

So, his long-term prospects politically, I just can’t speak to. I 

don’t think that’s what they’re thinking about now. They have 

much more urgent problems with respect to the outflow of refugees 

into the neighboring countries, and the dire circumstances of Syrians inside Syria. 

Ms. BASS. You also mentioned that what we—so I do want you 

to tell me what we can do as Congress to help in terms of strengthening the Syrian Opposition. But you mentioned that what we were 

concerned about, too, what we didn’t want to see happen was the 

collapse of the state. And hasn’t the state collapsed? Does the state 

have any legitimacy? 

Ambassador FORD. I make a distinction between legitimacy and 

the collapse of the state. There’s still large——

Ms. BASS. It’s still functioning. 

Ambassador FORD. Damascus, for example, is still—Central Damascus is very much under government control. 

Ms. BASS. I see. 

Ambassador FORD. Fourth largest city. Hama is still very much 

under government control. But in areas where the government’s 

control has receded, in the North, and in the East, for example, 

their court system, financial institutions, et cetera, in large part 

have stopped working. 

Ms. BASS. Okay. 

Ambassador FORD. And this is what I was talking about. These 

were huge problems in Iraq 10 years ago. 

Ms. BASS. In my last few seconds, one, I want to thank Ms. 

Lindborg for all of the work that USAID does. I didn’t want to you 

ask you a question, though. 

You mentioned the rape kits and sexual assault. And I was just 

wondering what the capacity is to deal with that? Meaning that, 

I mean, we even have trouble in our cities, some of our cities in 

terms of putting a woman through that and then nothing happening. 

Ms. LINDBORG. It’s limited, but it’s important that through the 

training, through the provision of those supplies and also, by the 

way, just a lot of regular supplies that women need. 

Ms. BASS. Yes, I understand. 

Ms. LINDBORG. For those who have been forced from their home, 

and then those who experience the violence. It’s limited, but it is 

definitely a part of how we train those who are participating in the 

clinics and hospitals that we support. 

And you are such a wonderful champion of women, I want to 

make another comment. 

Ms. BASS. Sure. 

Ms. LINDBORG. And that is, part of supporting this tolerant secular vision is also supporting the many strong, powerful Syrian 

women to have a voice, and to be a part of that future. 

Suheir al-Atassi is a very strong, wonderful woman who’s heading the Assistance Coordination Unit. We’ve worked closely with 

her, and along with our State colleagues we are providing support 

and training for a group of women who have put together a charter 

for Syrian women. This is part of a long-term commitment that we 

have to support women’s voices to be at the table during negotiations, and to be part of the future. 

45

Ms. BASS. Thank you. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ms. Bass. 

And Mr. Messer is recognized. 

Mr. MESSER. Thank you. I’ll start with a question for the Ambassador. 

Coming from Indiana, a couple of kind of homespun wisdoms are 

you can judge people by their actions, and you can judge them by 

their friends. That’s a couple of pretty good ways to judge folks. 

And when it comes to Assad, as you guys have laid out very clearly, he’s got a lot of the wrong friends. And when you look at the 

actions of the murder of 70,000 people, the displacement of millions 

of folks, and the atrocities that you guys have described, obviously, 

the actions there are terrible. 

Following up on the questions of the last couple of questioners, 

the challenge that we face as policy makers when looking at the 

Opposition and judging their friends, al-Qaeda and others, some 

real challenges there, as well. And I know you’ve tried this a few 

times, and you focused a little bit on the less savory folks, so I 

would ask you to expand a little bit upon, people use the phrase 

moderate rebels, the folks we would like to see. And then I mean 

this with great respect, as policy makers trying to figure out how 

we help, a shot at what can we do? What, if anything, can we do 

to try to help those who would be closer to the kind of government 

that we would like to see post-Assad? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, let me tell you a little bit about 

the head of the Syrian Opposition Coalition. We talked with Congresswoman Bass about the gentleman that they elected yesterday 

as Prime Minister, but let me talk about the President of the Opposition Coalition. 

He is an imam from the largest mosque in Damascus, actually 

the Umayyad Mosque. I’ve met him many times. I think what most 

impressed me about him was after we designated the al-Nusra 

Front as a terrorist affiliate of the al-Qaeda and Iraq group, there 

was a lot of criticism of us inside Syria. That is not a secret. 

In a very public speech broadcast throughout the Arab world at 

the Friends of Syria meeting in Marrakesh in mid-December, Muaz 

came right out directly and said, ‘‘The kind of ideology that alNusra espouses, the extremists, the intolerance, even imposing a 

special tax on Christians,’’ which hasn’t been done in the Middle 

East in hundreds and hundreds of years, ‘these things are rejected,’’ he said. ‘‘That is not what we are about.’’ He talked, instead, about reaching out to Alawites, who are the backbone of 

Assad’s remaining support. He said, ‘‘Join us. Don’t fight us, we’re 

not fighting you. Join us.’’ This is what I’m talking about with the 

kind of tolerance. 

Sheik Muaz wrote an open letter to the Syrian Christian community. We’d be happy to get you a copy of it. And I know it has had 

a big impact, because Syrian Christians have talked to me about 

it. But this is a vision of respect for the dignity of all Syrians. This 

is a vision of tolerance, of coexistence, and I think, frankly, the vast 

majority of Syrians really want to believe in that vision. 

So, the extremists that we’ve talked about are a minority, but I 

have to be honest and say as the violence goes on, those extremist 

voices are getting louder. 

46

Mr. MESSER. Okay. With the remaining time I have left, thank 

you for the humanitarian work that we’re doing. Obviously, very 

important. 

If you could expand, you’d mentioned briefly the efforts that 

we’re making to make sure that those that are being helped there 

recognize the role that America has played in providing the help, 

which I think has some long-term impact toward our earlier question. If could you just detail that a little bit, I would appreciate it. 

Ms. LINDBORG. As I said, we’re examining on a case-by-case basis 

when and where we might be able to safely brand, but we’re also 

looking at what are the other ways in which people get their information. So, we recently, the three of us took a trip to the region, 

did intensive regional media, Arabic language thanks to Ambassador Ford’s Arabic. 

We are using all ways that we can to get through the media, 

using things like Twitter, Skype, broadcasting into Syria. We’re 

doing weekly calls with the Diaspora community here in the United 

States. So, it’s really a full-on campaign of all the ways that we can 

let the Syrian people know that the American people are absolutely 

with them in their time of need. And this hearing is actually a very 

good opportunity, as well, so thank you. 

Ms. RICHARD. The High Commissioner for Refugees is in town for 

a few days, so he and I went to the studio part of the State Department yesterday and spoke to the lead correspondent from Syria 

Deeply, which is a group of journalists in New York who are trying 

to get information into Syria. And we do that sort of thing all the 

time. The day before I’d been on CBS News. We’re trying to get our 

messages out however we can, so we really appreciate your putting 

a spotlight on the humanitarian pieces of this crisis. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Messer. Mr. Vargas 

is recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. VARGAS. Thank you very much for the opportunity. 

You know, when I was young, I was always disgusted when I 

saw one of these dictators, one of the murders go into exile. I always thought that that was very unfair, that they would take 

someone who had done all these atrocities, and they’d allow them 

usually to go to France, usually Paris, you know. You know, you 

think of him living a very luxurious life with his family. I always 

thought that was very unfair, and certainly seems like we’ve 

changed those laws. 

As I’ve gotten older, however, I think of this situation now, and 

I wonder the thought process of someone like, you know, the President, Bashar al-Assad. I wonder what he’s thinking. I’m wondering, 

and this started to happen when he’s looking over in Egypt, and 

he’s looking at the former President there in prison, and potentially 

going to be executed, and you said, Ambassador, he’s going to think 

it’s time to call it quits and go. Where? 

I mean, it’s very interesting because now we’ve gotten so tough 

on these people. We don’t allow them to exile. We try to hunt them 

down. We try to put them in jail. We try to do all these things to 

them, and it’s appropriate, of course, with all the horrible things 

that they’ve done. But what do you think is—if you can get into 

his head, or someone like him, you’re an Ambassador, what is the 

thought process going on his head? Oh, I should just give up. This 

47

would be better if I just give up. I’ve been a dictator this whole 

time. Or do you think hey, roll the tanks? What do you think? 

Ambassador FORD. I’m not a psychiatrist. I’ve met Bashar alAssad twice, but I wouldn’t say that I understand his psychology 

perfectly. I think today he still thinks he can win militarily with 

help from Russia, from Iran, from Lebanese Hezbollah, but I think 

he also must understand as his windows rattle because the fighting 

is getting closer, he must be thinking about whether or not his calculations are correct. 

We think, Congressman, that Syrians will have to decide how to 

hold him and his ruthless circle accountable. It is ultimately a decision for Syrians to make. What we have sought to do is help them 

develop the capabilities so that they can hold trials, if that’s what 

they want to do, so that they can assemble evidence packages up 

to international standards. And we actually are helping a center 

which we set up in Lyon, France to do that with Syrian investigators. 

Mr. VARGAS. I guess, how realistic is that? If you’re a dictator 

who—you became the dictator because your father died, so you’ve 

always been in charge. Your father was a ruthless person. Do you 

think then he’s going to think well, you know, I think I’ll take my 

chances here and let all these people that I’ve ruled very cruelly 

for all these years take me to court, because I think they’re going 

to be very generous in their dictates? Or do you think he’s going 

to kill 70,000 people, do you think he’s going to murder people, as 

many as he can, and run a war of attrition? 

I think this is one of the issues that we really have to rethink. 

I mean, I know it’s not political to say that but, you know, is it 

really worth the murder of 70,000, 100,000 people, tanks mowing 

them over, being bombed from the air, mostly children. In a war, 

children always lose. Or do you let one really nasty, terrible, horrible human being potentially escape? I don’t know. Maybe they 

had it right for centuries before we had our more strict dictates in 

law. 

I put it out there, because I’ve got to tell you, I thought that this 

is probably what Hosni Mubarak was going to do, also. I thought 

he would roll the tanks. He seemed to be more of a human being 

at the end and didn’t do that, but this guy, of course, did. I don’t 

know where else would he go? If he’s going to be tried by his own 

people—Ambassador, go ahead. I’m sorry. 

Ambassador FORD. I don’t—two things I would say on this, Congressman. First, I don’t know where he would go either, if he decided to flee. I mean, I just—I do not know. There are going to be 

a lot of countries that wouldn’t take him because of all of the awful 

things that he is responsible for. I would also comment, he has a 

family, and he’s got to think about them. He has young children. 

He has a wife, so what’s going to happen to them? 

And then, finally, in the end, Congressman, I don’t think these 

are decisions that Americans have to make. These are decisions 

that Syrians are going to have to make, because they’re going to 

have to live with the results. So, what we have tried to do is to 

give them options, to give them capabilities to deploy if they decide 

to follow a particular option. And I’m very proud that we have 

given them those options, and I know that they appreciate it. 

48

Mr. VARGAS. Thank you. Thank you very much. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you, Mr. Vargas. Judge Poe is recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. POE. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you all for 

being here. 

I was recently in Turkey and saw our Patriot batteries, the 

Dutch batteries down on the border with Syria. I went to the refugee camp there in Syria where 150,000 Syrians are in Turkey. I 

could tell you, I was quite impressed with the way the Turks are 

handling the thousands of people that they’re taking care of. 

I had the opportunity to talk to some of the folks from Syria, including the women. I got the impression that the persecution of 

women, specifically, is not really confined to Assad’s forces, that it’s 

anybody. It’s criminals from foreign countries, it’s so-called Freedom Fighters, it’s revolutionaries, it’s just bad guys, and it’s the 

government, which I think may indicate—it indicates to me that 

there are a lot of bad things happening to the civilian population 

by the people who are involved in the military conflict. 

Quick question, Ms. Lindborg, Ms. Richard. Is that what you understand, or do you think it’s confined to the government forces 

alone? 

Ms. LINDBORG. First of all, thank you for taking the trip. It’s an 

important symbol to have you visit. And you are absolutely right, 

this is—this goes far beyond one side. And I think it more than 

anything else is really emblematic of a global epidemic of violence 

against women. We see this—this goes far beyond the borders of 

Syria. 

And if you noted on Valentine’s Day, there was a wonderful 

event called, ‘‘A Billion Rising,’’ which is women around the globe 

taking to the streets with music and poetry, but making the strong 

assertion that there’s no longer a place on this planet for violence 

against women. 

We are working in all the ways that we can to address the symptoms, to provide treatment, counseling, medical care, but at the end 

of the day, there are deep norms that need to be changed around 

the world. 

Mr. POE. Okay. Well, I appreciate you all’s work on that. You 

know, if I had my way, when we rounded up Assad and his bandits, we’d take all those criminals and just give them a trial together, put women on the jury, and let them decide. 

But, Mr. Ambassador, I want to come back to you on another 

issue, because my time is limited. I appreciate your work, and people in the diplomatic field. I’ve been called a lot of things, but a 

diplomat is not one of them. 

I want to talk about Assad. I met him. I didn’t like him when 

I met him. I don’t like him now. He’s a bad guy. Is the scenario 

playing out, though, that Assad is going to retreat to his domain, 

his regime around Damascus, and maybe cede the area outside of 

Damascus, and then hold his ground? Could we see maybe a smaller Syria, a smaller Assad regime, and whoever gets the rest of it 

is maybe in the way that it plays out? Do you see that happening, 

is that his plan? 

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, first, can I just add one point 

to the women, because this is important. We have in the CongresVerDate 0ct 09 2002 15:13 May 06, 2013 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00052 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\WORK\_FULL\032013\80121 HFA PsN: SHIRL
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sional notification, the way we intend to use some of our assistance 

monies in Syria, we will spend approximately $5 million to help the 

Syrian Opposition Coalition and these local councils that I talked 

about in liberated areas to develop their police forces, because law 

and order as you heard in Turkey is a big issue. So, we need—

working with partners. I think the Germans are going to help us 

with this. We need to help get the police force——

Mr. POE. Excuse me, Ambassador. I only have a minute left. 

Ambassador FORD. Yes. Oh, on the——

Mr. POE. Could you just answer my question? 

Ambassador FORD [continuing]. On the question about Assad, 

there’s two possibilities. We see him pulling forces in. Will he hold 

out in Damascus at the end? Maybe, but a lot of observers think 

he might, instead, retreat to the heartland of the Alawaite base of 

his support, which would be up along the coast in Northwest Syria. 

We’re not quite sure which he would do. 

Mr. POE. The other question——

Ambassador FORD. We think he——

Mr. POE. Let me reclaim my time. I’m sorry, Mr. Ambassador. 

The Opposition, when Mr. Weber was asking you questions, the 

leading Opposition movement, is that an al-Qaeda affiliate? Is that 

what you said? 

Ambassador FORD. No. 

Mr. POE. Okay. 

Ambassador FORD. Absolutely, it is not. The al-Qaeda affiliate is 

a small part of the Opposition. It’s a small minority, but his voice 

is getting louder. 

Mr. POE. This Ghassan Hitto, the new Prime Minister, what’s his 

affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood? We’ve heard reports 

about his affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood. What’s your 

opinion? That’s my last question. 

Ambassador FORD. I’ve met him twice, Congressman, and he 

struck me as more Texan than Muslim Brotherhood, frankly. 

Mr. POE. So, you don’t think he’s affiliated with the Muslim 

Brotherhood? 

Ambassador FORD. I don’t know what his political affiliations 

are, but I do know that he also has a tolerant vision of Syrian society. He is not a religious extremist, far from it. And that he has 

at some self-sacrifice gone over to help with the humanitarian crisis in Syria. He did not have to do that. He was comfortable in 

Texas. 

Mr. POE. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you. Yes, you had him at he’s a 

Texan. Mr. Marino is recognized. 

Mr. MARINO. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, folks. 

Ambassador, you can leave your microphone on. All right? And 

I saw on the news today—I have two main concerns, the innocent 

people in Syria, and our good friends, Israel. And I saw today the 

President getting off the plane, and meeting the President and 

Prime Minister. And it kind of reminded me of my daughter’s first 

prom date, bringing him to the house to meet me. It was a little 

tense situation there. 

50

But be that as it may, what are the chances that Hezbollah will 

remain a potent force in Syria? And, if that’s the case, will 

Hezbollah’s role in Lebanon be affected? 

Ambassador FORD. I think Hezbollah wants to remain a potent 

force in Syria. There’s no question of that, and that’s why they are 

increasing their presence now, and they’re increasing their assistance. But I have to tell you, Congressman, that when I talk to Syrians across the spectrum, those who do not support the government, the anger at what Hezbollah has done to help the regime is 

palpable. So, I think the transition government, when it comes, and 

the government after that is not going to want a relationship at all 

with Hezbollah, like what the Assad regime had. 

Mr. MARINO. What is the status of arms transfer to Hezbollah 

today? Can you respond to that question? 

Ambassador FORD. I can’t go into details here in an open session 

on the intelligence, but what I can say to you, Congressman, is that 

arms continue to reach Hezbollah from Iran. But I think, also, 

Hezbollah’s actions in Syria suggest to me, as do Iranian actions, 

that Hezbollah is very nervous about their stakes in Syria, and it 

will have an impact, also, on their position in Lebanon. 

Mr. MARINO. Okay. And, historically, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, and 

Hamas compromised an access of resistance. Inimicable to the U.S. 

interest in the Middle East, how will the ultimate fall of Assad affect Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas? 

Ambassador FORD. The end of the Assad regime will present us 

with big, new strategic opportunities to stabilize that part of the 

Middle East. Iran’s losing access to Lebanon through Syria will 

help Lebanon. In addition, losing the Assad alliance will make it 

harder for Iran to spread its influence through terror groups that 

have worked with Syria, and with Iran. For us, it would be definitely a strategic gain. 

Mr. MARINO. Ms. Richard, could you respond to—I see that 

you’ve written many articles and opinion pieces, and one of the 

areas is Combating Terrorism. What can we continue to do, or do 

with more strength to address the issues of terrorism, the relationship with Syria, and how do we curtail this presently, since Assad 

is still in control? 

Ms. RICHARD. Congressman, I’ve written in the past about countering financial flows to terrorists, so I’m not qualified to answer 

your question. 

Mr. MARINO. I yield back my time. Thank you. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you, Mr. Marino. And Mr. Lowenthal 

is recognized. No, sir? Thank you. And now we will go to Mr. 

DeSantis, my Florida colleague. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you, witnesses. I’ve learned a lot. I appreciate it, and I do not believe that 

Assad should survive. I mean, he doesn’t have any legitimacy, but 

that’s an easy thing for me to say because I don’t think he really 

ever had any legitimacy to begin with. 

I agree with Thomas Paine on the absurdities of some of these 

hereditary dictatorships. I think Paine said is indiscriminately, admits any species of character to the very same authority, so I think 

that there’s a problem with that. I think we see that in North 

Korea, where you now have Kim Jong-Un there. He’s like a 25-year 

51

old kid, and now he’s in charge of these nuclear weapons. So, not 

the right way to go. 

Ambassador, in terms of the jihadists that are operating in Syria, 

do you have any idea to what extent these are foreign fighters, are 

they native Syrians, are they a mixture of both? 

Ambassador FORD. The group that concerns us most, al-Nusra 

Front, started out as largely inspired by jihadists from Iraq. 

Mr. DESANTIS. And do we suspect that some of those folks may 

have been actually fighting American forces when we had a larger 

presence in Iraq? 

Ambassador FORD. I think that is very possible. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Now, what type of international support are these 

foreign fighters, the al-Qaeda type terrorists getting? I know that 

Zawahiri is favorable to them, but do they have any other source 

of support, either ideological, military, or economic? 

Ambassador FORD. They do, Congressman, and that’s one of the 

things that enable them to attract a lot of recruits. I think a lot 

of Syrians who fight under their banner are not, in fact, extremists, 

but they can get food, they can get ammunition from them. And alNusra and other extremists have a very well developed network of 

private finance that moves up to them, and that they are able to 

access. 

Mr. DESANTIS. If it gets to the point where somebody else is 

going to take over in Syria, somebody like Iran, who’s obviously 

done a lot of business with Assad and is an ally, how would they 

kind of mediate between some of these groups? I mean, I guess I’m 

just asking you to just give me your general opinion, but would 

they be willing to work with a group like JN or some of these 

groups, or some of these moderate Syrian Opposition groups? I 

mean, I guess I’m just trying to figure out how this would affect 

Iran’s role in the region. 

Ambassador FORD. The groups we’re talking about, the jihadists, 

Congressman, hate Iran, hate it passionately, so I don’t think they 

would ever work with Iran. In fact, I would be concerned that they 

will actually go out and kill Syrian Shia at the end of fighting. 

That’s a different concern, but they won’t have any truck with Iran. 

Mr. DESANTIS. What about the moderate groups? 

Ambassador FORD. People such as the Supreme Military Council, 

I think also are going to be so—well, they already are, and they 

tell us this, they’re already so frustrated with Iran, and so angry 

at the Iranian intervention. In many cases, it’s Iranian equipment 

that’s causing them casualties, I don’t think they’re going to have 

a good relationship at all with Iran after this crisis comes to a close 

and we have a transition government. 

Mr. DESANTIS. And then I guess the final thing that concerns 

me, it just seems like in this part of the world when you have different groups potentially jockeying for power, it seems like the 

most militant and violent tends to take the upper hand, just because they’re willing to do whatever. I’m worried that that will 

happen in this case. 

You know, 1) do you think that that’s a legitimate fear? And, 2) 

what can be done, if anything, from our perspective, the United 

States, to shape that outcome in a way that’s going to be better for 

peace in the region? 

52

Ambassador FORD. That is exactly our concern, Congressman, 

that my experience in other countries where I’ve worked, such as 

Algeria during their civil war, and in Iraq, that as the violence 

grows, extremists profit from that. They benefit from that. Their 

loud voices, their hard lined positions, the grandstanding appeals, 

and so we think it is really important to empower people who have 

a much more tolerant vision of what Syrian society should be. We 

need to target, as best we can, resource flows that go into these 

jihadist groups, and that is one of the impacts of our designating 

al-Nusra, for example. And we have to find ways to help the Syrian 

groups that are inside the areas liberated from government control 

to provide basic services which will undercut a lot of the appeal 

that the extremists have. That is why we have notified Congress 

about programs we want to start to enable the local councils and 

the Syrian Opposition Coalition to provide those services. 

Mr. DESANTIS. Thank you. Yield back. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much, sir. Mr. Collins of 

Georgia is recognized. 

Mr. COLLINS. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it. 

Ambassador Ford, you emphasized the need to solidify, and I 

think your words were solidify the efforts of Syrian moderates who 

are competing for influence with extremist groups, and to curtail 

the influence of extremists by helping the national and local Opposition leaders, providing the vital services, food, water, electricity. 

I heard you, and understood you correctly on that. Correct? 

The question comes in is, why are we providing so much of this 

support through U.N. agencies that rely on the consent of Assad regime for their access. You’ve talked about crossing lines and there’s 

support for crossing lines, but I see it as strengthening and prolonging the survival of the regime by allowing it to dictate the 

terms of access. And then, in turn, they’re able to claim credit for 

providing services to their civilians. 

Wouldn’t you agree that that would be how Assad sees that, and 

how——

Ambassador FORD. Congressman, I’m making a huge distinction 

between helping local councils in liberated areas provide basic services. Getting chlorine so that public water taps can be turned back 

on, buying some generators so that essential buildings will have 

electricity. That is not the kind of humanitarian assistance provided to people in need in government-controlled areas. That’s a 

different thing. So, there are the programs that we’re talking 

about. This is the $60 million that Secretary Kerry announced in 

Rome, and that we just sent notification of to Congress at the beginning of the week. That is to work specifically to strengthen 

these nascent governing bodies in liberated areas, and to help knit 

together this national Opposition leadership with people on the 

street. 

Mr. COLLINS. And you’re going to be working those through what 

forms of—through U.N. transfer, NGOs? 

Ambassador FORD. No, no, we do that——

Mr. COLLINS. Or we’re doing directly? 

Ambassador FORD. We do that directly. 

Mr. COLLINS. Going to do that directly. 

53

Ambassador FORD. That has nothing to do with our United Nations. 

Ms. RICHARD. What I’d like to do is defend the U.N. presence in 

Damascus, because they’re not there to prop up the Assad regime. 

They’re there to make sure that the aid gets in. Now, to get visas, 

they have to get them from the Ministries that he controls. But 

once they’re there, their intention, which they are, in my judgment, 

fulfilling, is to get aid out to innocent people wherever they can 

throughout the country. 

Now, in Syria there is no only Opposition on one side, and only 

regime control on the other side. It’s more like a checkerboard, and 

they are trying to get it to all these hard to reach areas, and 

they’re trying to get to people everywhere. 

Let me give you an example. I was talking to the World Health 

Organization about vaccinations. For 21⁄2 years, there have hardly 

been vaccination campaigns going on in Syria. Disease won’t respect where the battle lines are, so we want to get the aid in wherever we can using every possible legitimate method we can. And 

the U.N. is playing a very important part of that, think. 

Mr. COLLINS. Well, I think the role of the U.N. in Syria and 

other places be debated, and that’s fine and good. I think the issue 

here is how we are proceeding with the aid that we’re sending, and 

how it’s going in. 

I want to flip the question back, and I want to associate myself 

with the gentlelady from California, Ms. Bass, a few minutes ago 

when we were talking about this issue of the next ruling as we go 

along. And someone who’s been elected again who came from not 

inside the country. I want to just continue down that thought for 

just a second. 

It just seems to me we’re playing out the same format that we 

have seen many times in many countries, especially in the Middle 

East, where we’re coming in with someone who’s been away, maybe 

on the forefront, who’s willing, as I think your words were gave up 

his work to go help in Syria. That’s a noble cause, but the legitimacy factor here, and the weakness seems to be a continuing problem here. 

Can you address that a little bit more in detail, and say why are 

we not just heading down the same road that we’ve headed down 

before? 

Ambassador FORD. The easiest answer to that question, Congressman, is we aren’t heading in. Syrians chose him, we had nothing to do with it. We know him because we were working with him 

before on getting humanitarian assistance into Syria, into the 

checkerboard that Anne just described. But we certainly didn’t 

choose him, and he’s not—I mean, we stayed out of it entirely. He 

was chosen, Congressman, by a council of people from both inside 

and outside Syria to play that role. 

Mr. COLLINS. But doesn’t it concern you? I mean, I probably——

Ambassador FORD. No, I understand the thrust of your question, 

but I don’t know that he has a long-term political future in Syria. 

He has been elected for an immediate task of managing——

Mr. COLLINS. We’ve seen that sort of thought before. We’ve seen 

it in Afghanistan, we’ve seen the, you know, I’ll come to help, and 

then we all of a sudden see consolidation of power. I mean, we’ve 

54

seen this in other areas, Egypt or other places. I understand we’re 

not ‘‘putting him there,’’ but I think there is influence. If we’re influencing in other things we can—there is influence that needs to 

be looked at beforehand in this process. This is not an easy topic. 

I’m not asking for an easy postcard answer, but I am asking the 

question, saying I’m afraid we’re going down the same path again 

that will reap the same problems and benefits as we go forward. 

I think this is too important for us to miss, given the fact that our 

close relationship with Israel, and Jordan, and the stability in that 

region, this is not something we can afford to be playing with the 

next 10 to 20 years. So, I yield back, Madam Chair. 

Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Thank you very much, Mr. Collins, for excellent observations. Thank you to our panelists on behalf of Chairman Royce for explaining the humanitarian crisis going on. And, 

Ambassador Ford, the committee looks forward to continuing the 

conversation with you about the conflicting reports of weapons, 

chemical weapons being used. Thank you for your clarification. 

And with that, Chairman Royce would like for me to say that the 

committee is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:06 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

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