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HOUSING FOR HEROES: EXAMINING 

HOW FEDERAL PROGRAMS CAN 

BETTER SERVE VETERANS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

INSURANCE, HOUSING AND 

COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

SEPTEMBER 14, 2012 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services 

Serial No. 112–158 

( 

(II) 

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES 

SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama, Chairman 

JEB HENSARLING, Texas, Vice Chairman 

PETER T. KING, New York 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California 

FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma 

RON PAUL, Texas 

DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois 

WALTER B. JONES, North Carolina 

JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois 

GARY G. MILLER, California 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

SCOTT GARRETT, New Jersey 

RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas 

PATRICK T. MCHENRY, North Carolina 

JOHN CAMPBELL, California 

MICHELE BACHMANN, Minnesota 

KEVIN McCARTHY, California 

STEVAN PEARCE, New Mexico 

BILL POSEY, Florida 

MICHAEL G. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania 

LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri 

BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan 

SEAN P. DUFFY, Wisconsin 

NAN A. S. HAYWORTH, New York 

JAMES B. RENACCI, Ohio 

ROBERT HURT, Virginia 

ROBERT J. DOLD, Illinois 

DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona 

MICHAEL G. GRIMM, New York 

FRANCISCO ‘‘QUICO’’ CANSECO, Texas 

STEVE STIVERS, Ohio 

STEPHEN LEE FINCHER, Tennessee 

FRANK C. GUINTA, New Hampshire 

BARNEY FRANK, Massachusetts, Ranking 

Member 

MAXINE WATERS, California 

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York 

LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York 

MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina 

GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts 

RUBE ́ N HINOJOSA, Texas 

WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri 

CAROLYN MCCARTHY, New York 

JOE BACA, California 

STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts 

BRAD MILLER, North Carolina 

DAVID SCOTT, Georgia 

AL GREEN, Texas 

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

KEITH ELLISON, Minnesota 

ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado 

JOE DONNELLY, Indiana 

ANDRE ́ CARSON, Indiana 

JAMES A. HIMES, Connecticut 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

JOHN C. CARNEY, JR., Delaware 

JAMES H. CLINGER, Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

(III) 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INSURANCE, HOUSING AND COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY

JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois, Chairman 

ROBERT HURT, Virginia, Vice Chairman 

GARY G. MILLER, California 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

SCOTT GARRETT, New Jersey 

PATRICK T. MCHENRY, North Carolina 

LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

SEAN P. DUFFY, Wisconsin 

ROBERT J. DOLD, Illinois 

STEVE STIVERS, Ohio 

LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois, Ranking 

Member 

MAXINE WATERS, California 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York 

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri 

WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri 

MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts 

(V) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on: 

September 14, 2012 .......................................................................................... 1 

Appendix: 

September 14, 2012 .......................................................................................... 35 

WITNESSES 

FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, 2012 

Ansley, Heather L., Esq., MSW, Vice President, Veterans Policy, VetsFirst ..... 22 

Berg, Steve, Vice President, Programs and Policy, the National Alliance to 

End Homelessness ............................................................................................... 24 

Crone, Baylee, Technical Assistance Director, the National Coalition for 

Homeless Veterans ............................................................................................... 26 

Flanagan, Cassondra, Veteran, United States Army, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ...................................................................................................................... 6 

Higgins, Eileen, Vice President, Housing Services, Catholic Charities of the 

Archdiocese of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois ........................................................... 31 

Hill, Caesar, Veteran, United States Navy, and Community Affairs Manager, 

Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois ................. 7 

Miller, Sandra A., Chair, Homeless Veterans Committee, Vietnam Veterans 

of America, ............................................................................................................ 28 

Peyton, Babette, Veteran, United States Army, and resident of Catholic Charities St. Leo Residence, Chicago, Illinois ............................................................ 8 

Stalk, Arnold, Ph.D., Founder, Veterans Village, Las Vegas, Nevada ................ 30 

APPENDIX 

Prepared statements: 

Dold, Hon. Robert ............................................................................................. 36 

Heck, Hon. Joe .................................................................................................. 37 

Ansley, Heather L. ........................................................................................... 39 

Berg, Steve ........................................................................................................ 47 

Crone, Baylee .................................................................................................... 52 

Flanagan, Cassondra ........................................................................................ 58 

Higgins, Eileen ................................................................................................. 63 

Hill, Caesar ....................................................................................................... 67 

Miller, Sandra A. .............................................................................................. 70 

Peyton, Babette ................................................................................................. 77 

Stalk, Arnold ..................................................................................................... 79 

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Biggert, Hon. Judy: 

Written statement of The American Legion ................................................... 83 

Written statement of BAM House Inc. ........................................................... 84 

Written statement of the Corporation for Supportive Housing .................... 88 

Written statement of Easter Seals Inc. .......................................................... 94 

Written statement of the Midwest Shelter for Homeless Veterans ............. 99 

Written statement of the National Association of REALTORS® ................. 101 

Written statement of Rebuilding Together ..................................................... 103 

Written statement of A Safe Haven ................................................................ 107 

Written statement of Veterans Upward Bound ............................................. 111 

Written statement of Vietnam Veterans of America ..................................... 113 

Written statement of Volunteers of America of Florida ................................ 115 

Page

VI 

Biggert, Hon. Judy—Continued 

Written statement of St. Paul’s Senior Homes & Services ........................... 119 

(1) 

HOUSING FOR HEROES: EXAMINING 

HOW FEDERAL PROGRAMS CAN 

BETTER SERVE VETERANS 

Friday, September 14, 2012 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON INSURANCE, HOUSING

AND COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY, 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, 

Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:35 a.m., in room 

2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Judy Biggert [chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Members present: Representatives Biggert, Hurt, Duffy, Dold, 

Stivers; Gutierrez and Waters. 

Also present: Representative Green. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. This hearing of the Subcommittee on Insurance, Housing and Community Opportunity will come to order. 

Without objection, all Members’ opening statements will be made 

a part of the record. I will now recognize myself for an opening 

statement. 

Good morning, and welcome to today’s hearing entitled, ‘‘Housing 

for Heroes: Examining How Federal Programs Can Better Serve 

Veterans.’’ 

I welcome our witnesses today, and I thank all who traveled to 

participate in today’s discussion. President Calvin Coolidge once 

said, ‘‘The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten,’’ and I couldn’t agree more. 

For our Nation’s heroes returning home from duty, readapting to 

civilian life is not always easy. I have heard countless stories of 

hardship from veterans who have attended our job fairs or who 

have worked with me to improve veterans health care options by 

getting Federal approval for a new veterans outpatient clinic in my 

area in Illinois. Whether it is because of post-traumatic stress or 

trouble finding work, many veterans in the Chicago area and 

across the Nation are experiencing unstable living conditions or, 

worst of all, homelessness. 

According to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, on one night in January of 2011, over 67 veterans were 

homeless. The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs determined 

that throughout 2010, more than 144,000 veterans experienced 

homelessness. Veterans make up one-fifth of our Nation’s homeless 

population. The bottom line is that even one homeless veteran is 

one too many. 

2 

There are many contributing factors, but data and research point 

to stable housing as a necessary foundation to help veterans overcome any of the other challenges that they may face. Some safety 

nets and government assistance programs do exist, and more recently, targeted housing programs for veterans, such as the HUDVeterans Affairs Supportive Housing (HUD-VASH) Program are a 

step in the right direction. Congress also passed the Homeless 

Emergency Assistance and Rapid Transition to Housing (HEARTH) 

Act in 2009, which commissioned a national plan to end homelessness. 

The current plan sets a goal of ending veterans’ homelessness by 

2015. As the cochair and cofounder of the Congressional Caucus on 

Homelessness, that is a worthy goal which I support wholeheartedly. 

Beyond government programs and assistance, countless charitable organizations also provide services and housing to veterans. 

In fact, I have heard that occasionally when funding is short, the 

employees of these organizations have reached into their own wallets to help a veteran pay a utility bill, the rent or a security deposit for an apartment. Not to everyone’s surprise, there is always 

room for improvement in any program, but particularly Federal 

programs. That is why we are here today, to examine barriers that 

homeless and low-income veterans face in securing housing assistance and services from Federal programs. We will discuss findings 

and suggestions offered by the Government Accountability Office, 

which has issued a few reports about Federal veterans programs 

where there is room for improvement. We will also explore other 

suggestions to improve Federal agency collaboration, program efficiencies, and the administration of homeless housing and services 

for veterans. 

This week, we are working to advance some of those suggestions 

in the form of legislation to help disabled veterans, H.R. 6361, the 

Vulnerable Veterans Housing Reform Act of 2012, introduced by 

Mr. Heck. For purposes of Section 8 and public housing assistance, 

the bill would exempt from a veteran’s income service-related disability benefits and expenses related to in-home aid and care. This 

bill mirrors language in the Affordable Housing and Self-Sufficiency Improvement Act of 2012, the broader legislation to reform 

HUD, Section 8 and public housing programs, which this subcommittee passed in February. 

We are also working on a bill introduced by Mr. Green, whom 

I would like to commend for all of his work to help our veterans. 

H.R. 6381, the Housing Assistance for Veterans Act of 2012 (the 

HAVEN Act), would allow HUD to award grants to qualified organizations to rehabilitate and modify the homes of disabled or lowincome veterans. I look forward to continuing to work with both 

gentlemen so that we can see that these bills can be signed into 

law. I would also like to recognize and thank Chairman Bachus for 

his hard work on these important measures. 

While we can never repay our veterans for the selfless sacrifices 

they have made to defend the liberties we enjoy, we can work on 

ensuring that they have a place to call home when they return. It 

is a part of the American dream that they have paid a high price 

3 

to safeguard, and they should have the opportunity to experience 

the blessings that dream represents. 

And with that, I would like to recognize the ranking member, 

Mr. Gutierrez, for an opening statement. 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. Thank you for yielding, Madam Chairwoman, 

and thank you for holding this hearing. Having homeless people in 

our country, the richest country in the world, is shameful. Families 

with children, and elderly and mentally ill individuals, going without a roof over their heads, without shelter, is simply outrageous, 

but as outrageous and inhumane as that is, it is simply unacceptable to have homeless veterans. 

Beyond unacceptable, it is a tragedy to see our warriors, our heroes, sleeping on our streets. I have seen estimates—and nobody 

knows for sure the extent of this problem—that as many as 40 percent of the homeless in the United States are, indeed, veterans. 

President Obama, Veterans Affairs Secretary Shinseki, and HUD 

Secretary Donovan have committed this Administration’s effort to 

the lofty goal of ending veteran homelessness by the year 2015. It 

is not a partisan posture, and it is not a hollow campaign season 

promise. Rather, it is an achievable goal that can be reached if 

Members in both parties commit themselves. 

Madam Chairwoman, we have a duty to assist our President and 

this Administration and our Government to bring about the end of 

this national shame. This is not creating new dependency but, 

rather, addressing the needs of people who have given so much of 

themselves already. We should be assisting our veterans and organizations that support them and demand accountability of our government programs that already exist. 

In that context, I look forward to our witnesses’ testimony about 

what they consider to be the obstacles that homeless veterans face 

in obtaining needed housing assistance and services from Federal 

programs, and the efforts by Federal agencies to collaborate in administrating housing and services for homeless veterans in a more 

effective and efficient manner. I look forward to testimony about 

the HUD-VASH Supportive Housing Program, does it have enough 

homeless shelters and vouchers? What kinds of administrative difficulties have they encountered and what are the plans to address 

those? What role do not-for-profit service organizations play in the 

process, and is the Federal Government assisting them to maximize their potential contributions? 

I am also interested in hearing if there is an understanding of 

the need to have a comprehensive holistic strategy to attack veterans’ homelessness. Are we appropriately dealing with the issues 

of employment, mental and physical health, continuing education, 

police and community relations, and other social and cultural needs 

of veterans in the context of putting an end to veteran homelessness? Are we paying enough attention to the special needs of disabled veterans, especially wheelchair-bound veterans and of women 

veterans as it relates to housing and homelessness? I look forward 

to hearing from our veteran witnesses and their stories about the 

impact of homelessness in their lives and the lives of their loved 

ones. I am certain that the distinguished panel of witnesses will 

bring specific suggestions to improve the Federal homeless veterans housing program, and I am pleased to note that at least 

4 

three of the witnesses come from Chicago, and I give them a special welcome this morning. 

Madam Chairwoman, I also look forward to hearing from our colleague, Congressman Al Green. Congressman Al Green’s bill, H.R. 

6381, the Housing Assistance for Veterans Act of 2012, proposes to 

create a pilot program at HUD in coordination with the VA to rehabilitate and modify disabled and low-income veterans’ primary 

residences, working with and providing grants to veteran service 

organizations. I think it is a great program that we should take a 

serious, serious look at. I understand there is much more to cover 

in this hearing, and this is only another step in the examination 

of this critical issue. 

Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Gutierrez. 

Mr. Green, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. 

I especially thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for holding this 

hearing, and I thank you for the many efforts that you have made 

as well as your successes in helping our veterans. You have been 

a real friend to veterans, and I greatly appreciate all you have 

done. 

I also especially thank Mr. Gutierrez, who has demonstrated 

through the years a commitment to helping our veterans and who 

has been of great benefit to me as we have tried to move this bill 

forward. 

Former Chairman Frank, now Ranking Member Frank, and 

Chairman Bachus are to be thanked as well. The two of them have 

been very helpful with this piece of legislation, and my hope is that 

they can hear the sound of my voice because I really wanted to 

thank them to make sure that they know how much we appreciate 

what they are doing on behalf of our veterans. 

I, of course, have to thank the veterans themselves. Madam 

Chairwoman, it is a worn-out cliche, but it is still true, and it merits saying, we are the land of the free because we are the home of 

the brave, and we can never forget this. Our troops go to distant 

places. They don’t go because they desire to go to a specific location. They do what they are told. Many of them do not return the 

way they left, and when they return, the very least a grateful nation can do is make sure that they have good, decent housing, 

housing that is appropriate for their needs. 

Many of them find themselves in facilities that are not properly 

modified to meet their needs. We owe it to them to make sure that 

their needs are met. That is what this piece of legislation will help 

do. I am very confident that this legislation is going to be of great 

benefit to our veterans, to many who would not receive help otherwise. 

I would also like to thank two organizations: VetsFirst; and Rebuilding Together. These organizations have been working together, and are committed to veterans. I am committed to working 

with them to help get this legislation through. They have been 

great advisers. They have helped with some of the nuances that 

they understand because they have hands-on experience with our 

veterans. They know the needs, and they have echoed these needs, 

and we have tried to capture these needs in this legislation. 

5 

We find currently that we have about 864,000 veterans with 

service-connected disabilities. Now, this depends on who is counting and how you count. The count could go as high as a million, 

depending on who is counting and how you count. We also understand that these needs can be met, and I would add now that they 

must be met. I would also add that these organizations that I have 

mentioned, VetsFirst and Rebuilding Together, not only provide a 

service in that they can take grant moneys and they can use this 

money to remodel homes for veterans, but they also provide volunteers, and these volunteers are giving us hours of labor at no cost. 

This labor helps us to leverage the dollars that we receive. In fact, 

for every $1 in Federal funds, we can leverage about $3, for every 

one. So we have a three-to-one ratio. And we also know that these 

organizations are willing to match dollars. They will match each of 

these grants, and they do so with no less than 50 percent of the 

grant. So we are helping veterans. We have NGOs that are available to do this. 

Volunteerism is alive and well. Bipartisanship is alive and well. 

This bill should be alive and well, and I hope that it will move forward rather quickly so that we can immediately, if not sooner, help 

those who are in dire need of the help that we can provide. This 

is not beyond our reach. This is within our grasp. It is available 

to us here. We only have to translate it into meaningful legislation 

that can move quickly and get to those in dire need of what we can 

provide. 

Madam Chairwoman, I would like to close as I began. I thank 

you. It means a lot to me that you have been willing to do this. 

Ranking Member Gutierrez, I thank you, and today I am not appealing, I am not requesting; I am not too proud to beg for help 

for our veterans. 

I yield back. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Green. 

We will now turn to our panel of witnesses, and let me just say 

that, without objection, your written statements will be made a 

part of the record, and you will each be recognized for a 5-minute 

summary of your testimony. 

I am delighted to have three veterans who really know what is 

going on at this time in housing. First, we have Ms. Cassondra 

Flanagan from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Welcome. 

Second, Mr. Caesar Hill from Chicago—we are always happy to 

recognize our home State people here. 

And third, Ms. Babette Peyton from Chicago. It turns out that 

I have known Babette for quite a while, and I am really happy to 

see her. I haven’t seen her in the last few years because she has 

been busy in the military. 

So, thank you all for being here. 

And with that, we will start with Ms. Flanagan. 

You are recognized for 5 minutes for your opening statement. If 

you would turn on your microphone there so that it lights up green, 

and pull it kind of close so we can hear. 

6 

STATEMENT OF CASSONDRA FLANAGAN, VETERAN, UNITED 

STATES ARMY, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA 

Ms. FLANAGAN. Madam Chairwoman, I want to thank you for listening to what I have to say as a veteran. I want to thank Mr. 

Green and Mr. Gutierrez as well. Thanks for having me. 

I enlisted in the United States Army in 1999 at the age of 17- 

years old. I came with a small suitcase, and my first duty station 

was Korea. I was ordered to the 4th Infantry Division at Fort 

Hood, Texas, and later I deployed to Iraq for the first time from 

a unit in that division. I received orders for Iraq a few months 

later, after reenlisting and being reassigned to Fort Drum, New 

York. 

Once my term of service was completed in 2006, I returned home 

to Sicklerville, New Jersey. It is a suburb of Camden, New Jersey. 

I returned home with a DD214, a beautiful 3-year-old daughter, a 

set of divorce papers, a host of latent internal writhe, and a lot of 

excitement about the new era in my life. I was pretty happy because I was a veteran. I planned to use all my skills and talents 

in a meaningful way. I decided to get an associate’s degree from 

the local community college. After graduating, I was accepted to 

Temple University. 

You asked why it is difficult to secure housing. I would say that 

during those 6 years of college, I rode my bicycle to school. I 

worked odd jobs. I had short-term employment. I begged teachers 

to let me bring my daughter to class. I ate ramen noodles. In general, I lived a college life. I felt deeply blessed and grateful that I 

had the Montgomery G.I. Bill at my disposal. Oftentimes, it was 

my sole documented source of income—$1,000-plus of tax-free 

money awarded by the government on a monthly basis. I secured 

housing by begging rental managers and landlords to accept this 

as proof of income. I arrived with child in tow, brought in cash, set 

up furlough accounts, and whatever other requirements property 

managers requested. During the summer months, they were especially difficult because I got in the habit of saving my income tax 

and using that for my month’s rent during the summer because the 

GI bill rates are lower, when school sessions are less. 

If you ask me what suggestions do I have to improve outreach, 

I would say before I found my way to the Philadelphia Veterans 

Multi-Service & Education Center (PVMSEC), I didn’t have enough 

income. Disability and other government income cannot be claimed 

as income on a finance assessment document, so that income I 

couldn’t prove. No organization actually wants to help you until 

you have an eviction notice in hand. 

The individuals who helped me the most were my mother, sister, 

and other individuals from the community. The maintenance man 

at my apartment complex, Mr. Charles, would catch fish from the 

ocean and bring it to me once a week, so I knew my meat portion 

was already accounted for when I had to go grocery shopping. A 

legal team, Scott Marcus and Associates, made payment arrangements and things like that so I could maintain housing even while 

I didn’t have income. 

But most importantly was the Philadelphia Veterans Multi-Service & Education Center. They provided me with case management, 

7 

housing assistance, security, and first and last month’s rent. They 

helped me get beds, food vouchers. 

I would say partnership and teamwork, at least locally, would be 

a big help. All the veterans service organizations should share 

some kind of computer system maybe or at least have monthly 

classes where employees are required to inform each other of what 

other organizations experience as far as providing veterans services, maybe even an awareness of what resources remain in each 

system for the fiscal year so veterans are given proper direction, 

even when turned away from one organization. 

Veterans should be working at those places designed to assist 

veterans. Organizations should have a clear process that is typed 

up and given to a veteran so that they don’t feel like they are waiting forever for assistance. Case managers should have company 

travel cards because veterans can’t always travel, don’t have public 

transportation. Complete furniture assistance, because once you get 

housing, it doesn’t mean that you have actually something to put 

in it. 

I want to say that I am grateful that I received help from the 

veterans service center. I know it would improve the lives of other 

veterans if some changes were made. Overall, PVMSEC was truly 

a blessing to me. They provided me with affordable housing. I 

would specifically like to thank my case manager, Aronda Smith, 

and Jackie Ries, who is their coordinator. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Flanagan can be found on page 

58 of the appendix. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

Mr. Hill, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF CAESAR HILL, VETERAN, UNITED STATES 

NAVY, AND COMMUNITY AFFAIRS MANAGER, CATHOLIC 

CHARITIES OF THE ARCHDIOCESE OF CHICAGO, CHICAGO, 

ILLINOIS 

Mr. HILL. Good morning. Chairwoman Biggert, Ranking Member 

Gutierrez, and Representative Green, thank you. I am here today 

to appeal to you to intensify and support all programs and services 

as they relate to the betterment of my fellow veterans, especially 

with regard to housing. 

In 2010, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki set some 

bold new plans for addressing homelessness of veterans. His plans 

included the reduction from 131,000 veterans in 2008 to 59,000 in 

2012. 

Hand-in-hand with housing is a need for employment. The unemployment rate for veterans who served on active duty in the United 

States Armed Forces at anytime since September 2001, a group referred to as the Gulf War II era veteran, was 12.2 percent in 2011. 

And that is according to the U.S. Bureau of Statistics. There is also 

a need to examine service-connected disability benefits. I do not believe this is asking too much, but is only appealing for what is decent and deserved. 

All my life I have done it the American way, close, loving, caring, 

supportive family, religious upbringing, college graduate, and plenty of professional employment prior to my enlistment in the United 

States Navy in 1977, and thereafter, I received a Naval commission 

8 

until 1983. I returned home and eventually earned a commission, 

an appointment under then-Mayor Harold Washington as district 

manager, Chicago Department of Human Services, until the mayor’s death in 1987. 

Thereafter, I was able to bridge the employment gap, but there 

came a series of layoffs always seemed geared toward budget constraints or budget program cuts and the like. The bridge was always gapped, but in 2004, I faced yet another systemwide layoff. 

And despite savings and a valiant effort to bridge the gap, it was 

not to be. I effectively became homeless. Yes, it was very devastating to me, but at that exact moment, I realized this is not just 

about me, and I also remembered two very important rules of the 

Hill household: rule number one was that you never give up; and 

rule number two was never forget rule number one. 

I stayed at the Lincoln Park Community Shelter in Chicago, a 

very special place. Its challenging and vigorous programs call for 

accountability in accomplishing short- and long-term goals toward 

economic stability and permanent housing. 

So I left there, and I went to a place, wonderful place, the St. 

Leo Campus for Veterans, the first of its type, large-scale, singlepopulation housing for formerly homeless veterans. The stability 

that is provided at this wonderful facility adds to the camaraderie 

of veterans, rest, respite, and stability, all made possible through 

the Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Chicago. Other services 

there include case management, programs that address the challenges of drug/alcohol abuse, and physical and mental disabilities. 

There is supportive employment through our Veterans Employment 

Program, an enterprising program, the Veterans Painting Enterprise. 

The need continues and the recommendations are that we need 

more HUD-VASH vouchers and the shortening of the process in 

order to cut down on long waiting time; the assurance of hiring of 

veterans through the Department of Labor Office of Federal Contracts Compliance; housing provided through properties owned by 

the Federal Government; and streamlining the process for determining service-connected disability ratings and decreased disparity 

between States in the amount of benefit payments. 

The Department of Veterans Affairs Office of Inspector General 

found that the annual average disability payment in Illinois was 

$6,961 and in New Mexico it was $12,004. The national average 

payment was $8,890. And also, we need to determine civilian employment opportunities as they relate to military jobs prior to their 

disembarkation. I would like to thank you for the time and God 

bless America. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hill can be found on page 67 of 

the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Hill. 

Ms. Peyton, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF BABETTE PEYTON, VETERAN, UNITED STATES 

ARMY, AND RESIDENT, CATHOLIC CHARITIES ST. LEO RESIDENCE, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 

Ms. PEYTON. First of all, I am honored to be here, Chairwoman 

Biggert, Ranking Member Gutierrez, Congressman Green, and 

9 

members of the subcommittee. I am a little nervous here. Bear 

with me. 

Before I start and run out of time, I want to thank Catholic 

Charities so much. They have just been a godsend for me, who has 

been independent most of my life. Ms. Higgins, who is here with 

us, and the other people from USA Catholic Charities at home; 

Bertel Smith, who is with our employment program; my case manager and all the case managers really at St. Leo, where I reside 

now, including Ms. Pettigrew, and over at the VA, the VA has 

played a very important part in my life; and a homeless person in 

the area is Ms. Linda Lyons; and another gentleman who is the 

head of that, the name is escaping me, but I will come back to that. 

I just want to say thank you for everything. 

I am honored to be selected to come here. And let me just go— 

I was number one in my battalion and received my first stripe during basic training. God has been a part of my life since the beginning of my life, and He continues to be there, and I think He had 

something to do with me being selected, praise God. 

My job during the term—I had two jobs when I was in my duty 

station, but they both had to deal basically with traumatic things. 

One was with the children, and I used my skill set as a dancer to 

work with these kids who couldn’t speak because there was something traumatic, and by the time they got finished, they were 

speaking because they didn’t want me to leave. 

And then they put me as part of the Polytrauma Medevac Team, 

where I worked with people who came in, wounded soldiers who 

were trying to be stabilized, where we sent them back to the 

United States. It was rough. Some came with arms gone, legs gone, 

faces, sides. I saw death on a regular basis. 

But I just want to say that it gave me pride to be able to do that, 

and I was in a lot of pain myself during that time because I was 

injured early in the military. I decided to stay in there because we 

had things going on in this world, and like was said, when you volunteer for the military, it is different than even getting married, 

you really say I do, and your life could be required of you. Whenever there is something going on, most of you probably remember 

9/11, we can’t say, I don’t want to go out, I don’t want to be—we 

go. We follow orders. We go where it is necessary. We do what is 

necessary because we know freedom is important, and I am just 

going to say, I wish they never changed their bases across the 

country because you see they attacked us here. I think they need 

to rethink that. 

Okay, going back into this. You have my testimony, so if I deviate a little bit from that, I hope you don’t mind. But I just wanted 

to let you know how I became homeless. From a long-term injury 

while I was in the military, I ended up with paralysis on the left 

side that I have right now. I am in a wheelchair. I thought I knew 

something about disability and being in a wheelchair, well, let me 

tell you, I didn’t know anything until I got into this chair. So 

please make things veteran-friendly, think about stairs, think 

about access into places. And you need to have a veteran who is 

in a wheelchair—I am going to say a veteran because I want veterans to get jobs—for all these building projects, not just to have 

10 

the architects, but have consultants and dealing with that, we talk 

about housing. 

I got a chance to go to St. Leo. Some veterans told me about 

when it I was in the hospital. But guess what? When I left the hospital, before I left, I got my application in. They helped me to get 

my application in to St. Leo. They told me the waiting list was over 

400. I didn’t care because I didn’t have an option. Without family 

to take you in, when you leave the hospital, you have to go to a 

nursing home, and that is where I went. I was in the nursing home 

for quite awhile and was headed to a hospice. I was writing my 

obituary. I was—anyway, my time is almost over. I would just like 

to say this: I am an archer right now. I help veterans become heroes at home. 

I would like to help you with things, and since this is the Subcommittee on Insurance, Housing and Community Opportunity, I 

would like to say that where I am at St. Leo, I see a lot of veterans 

who pass. They are not able to have a regular burial. The flag is 

nice. The cemetery is nice, but they don’t have insurance. If they 

don’t have money, many times people get involved, if they don’t 

have money to have a funeral, so we are waiting and waiting for 

people to get funerals, and I know the issue is money, so I would 

like to see something being done in terms of that, okay? 

In terms of teeth, I am an archer. I am a wheelchair archer. I 

shoot with my hand and my mouth, and so my teeth are important. 

But you know what? I can’t get it because my disability is not 100 

percent. As a matter of fact, I am still fighting to get it back after 

all these years. And, guess what, did you know that you can die 

from having a tooth problem? I didn’t know that. I would like to 

see a veteran opportunity fund for veterans who lose licenses, et 

cetera, where they can keep them for employment and stuff. I 

would like to see timely Social Security Disability, I never got disability from Social Security because my numbers weren’t in order, 

and I don’t want to keep going on because I see the time is gone. 

I am mindful of the time. 

I just want to say thank you so much again, Congresswoman 

Biggert, Congressman Gutierrez, Congressman Green, and all the 

other members of the subcommittee, and to Catholic Charities and 

my fellow veterans. Anytime you see a veteran, please take time, 

even if they are members of your household, to say thank you for 

your service, thank you for your service, and thank you for your 

time, and many of you are veterans’ heroes, I love you. Thank you. 

My name is Babette Peyton. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Peyton can be found on page 77 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. Thank you so much. 

We will now begin the questioning. 

Each Member will have 5 minutes to ask questions. 

I will begin by yielding myself 5 minutes. 

Ms. Flanagan, in your testimony, you say that no organization 

would help you until you had an eviction notice in hand. Can you 

explain why you would have to have that or you would be ineligible 

for housing assistance? 

Ms. FLANAGAN. I noticed you mentioned in your opening statement about HUD-VASH, that program as well you have to have an 

11 

eviction notice or at least the threat of an eviction notice typed 

from your landlord or the property manager in order to receive 

even HUD-VASH, and all the other like local programs, State-funded programs that I ran into while I was trying to make phone calls 

to try to stay at least where I was at just for a little bit more time. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. So what you are saying is you have the 

housing, but then you can’t pay the rent, and so then you have to 

have—it is not that you want to move to someplace else? It is to 

stay in that particular housing? 

Ms. FLANAGAN. It is to stay where you are at, yes, or to even be 

considered homeless, that is like the beginning of the process is to 

have an eviction notice. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Okay, thank you. 

Mr. Hill, in your written testimony, you say that you were homeless for a period of years following a layoff and a series of unfortunate events. However, you also state that you never give up, which 

is great. How much of a factor has your determination to succeed 

played a role in your success? 

Mr. HILL. The rules of ‘‘never give up’’ are forever with me from 

my family. It was very important that I persist through the 18 

months of homelessness. It wasn’t about me at the shelter. We 

were a group who used the interdependency of the group to help 

lift each other up. And, I left there for St. Leo, and it represented 

a reversal of circumstances in my life. This development by Catholic Charities is nothing new. They have been helping veterans since 

right after World War I. Obviously, they remain on the frontline, 

and through these programs and services, through developments 

like St. Leo, they gain higher ground on the war on poverty. No 

one should have to join our military services and, whether they 

fight on foreign shores or otherwise, come home and then have to 

face another war, a war on poverty, and that war has just as many 

victims as any other war. So where veterans are concerned, it is 

not right that this happens to them. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

And then Ms. Peyton, you highlight the importance of outreach 

for low-income, disabled, and homeless veterans. Before I ask you 

that question, I saw a picture of how you shoot archery, and it is 

fantastic. You humbly neglected to mention that you have a score 

of 299 out of 300, and you have won many, many awards at that. 

So, congratulations. 

Ms. PEYTON. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Biggert. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. What kind of outreach would have been 

most helpful to you when you came back? You said you had a thirdfloor apartment you couldn’t get to because you couldn’t walk up 

the stairs. What did you do immediately? 

Ms. PEYTON. I was in the hospital, so I was kind of out of it, but 

let me tell you the things, the logistics that I really faced, the barriers that I faced that were very difficult. One is having either 

some type of program, I won’t use the word program, having assistance in getting myself moved out from there. I didn’t have the 

money for that. I was able to get my stuff in storage because some 

people went there. I don’t know what went into my storage, keeping that going. Transportation for someone in a wheelchair is really, really rough; that is a big thing, transportation, transportation, 

12 

transportation everywhere. If you have transportation, that means 

you won’t necessarily have to go into a nursing home. 

Maybe you talk about housing, helping have some places for veterans to go because mentally, I am going to tell you, Congresswoman, the thought of being homeless when you come from an 

independent state is devastating. So assistance to get into places 

like St. Leo without having to have that kind of money because if 

you don’t have it, if you don’t have income, you can’t get in. They 

were wonderful. But a lot of the time, people are not able to do 

that. Veterans stepped up and veterans organizations stepped up 

for me because I had been out there to help pay my security deposit. 

But then, you have a lot of other things. Assistants in the house, 

I heard about one of the bills to help for caregivers, that is really 

important to get help. You can live independently in an apartment 

if you can get some help. You don’t have to be in a nursing home. 

I don’t care what people say, everybody doesn’t die in a hospice. 

When you think about that, it is depressing. So transportation, I 

would say, more assistance dealing with the process of assessing 

somebody’s income, and finding ways to bridge those gaps, and 

then the understanding that wherever we are right now is a transit; it is not forever. So how do we get the financial preparation, 

income, et cetera, from that so we can make room for others who 

find themselves in that situation. Thank you. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

My time has expired. 

The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Gutierrez, is recognized for 5 

minutes. 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. Thank you so much. 

Of course, I would like to ask Ms. Flanagan, so do you believe 

that the Administration’s stated objective of ending veterans’ homelessness by the year 2015 is achievable? And what steps do you 

think we need to take to achieve such a goal, whether in 2015 or 

in the immediate future? 

Ms. FLANAGAN. Thank you, Congressman Gutierrez. 

I do believe it is achievable because the same way this country 

trusted a 17-year-old girl to hold a weapon and go defend the rights 

of this Nation, and the same way that this country is asking me, 

as a homeless single parent, to speak and express the things that 

I go through, is the same way it shows the belief, and it shows the 

dedication, and I 100 percent believe, with a few changes, by 2015, 

the homelessness could be severely— 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. If you had to change one thing today, what is the 

first thing we should change, Ms. Flanagan? 

Ms. FLANAGAN. The first thing I would change is the employment, because a lot of the reason why veterans are homeless is because the employment—not that they are not employed, but they 

are not employed at jobs that make enough money to sustain themselves. So I would definitely change the way veterans are looked 

at for employment or maybe their employment rates or selection, 

that kind of thing. 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. Welcome, Mr. Hill, a fellow Chicagoan, it is good 

to have you here this morning. Same question, by 2015, we want 

13 

to reach the goal of ending homelessness, can we achieve it, and 

what is the first step you would take? 

Mr. HILL. I think there are evident signs of Secretary Shinseki’s 

goals being met with the reduction of homelessness in vets. I do 

think we need more supportive housing programs akin to the St. 

Leo campus for veterans. I think there needs to be more outreach 

to veterans from the VA and from social organizations. 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. How should the VA reach out to veterans more 

effectively? What steps should they take to reach out to veterans 

more effectively? 

Mr. HILL. I think that they should physically go out in the field 

and especially look for veterans who are living in the public way, 

and there are quite a few. I have encountered many from the Vietnam era who are—the difference between that veteran and today’s 

veteran, is that veteran was compelled to service through the draft 

and was not as welcome as those who are returning today. So, yes, 

with more outreach, more supportive housing programs, especially 

HUD-VASH vouchers, and shortening of the time that it takes to 

receive those vouchers, I think the goal is entirely feasible. 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. Thank you. 

Ms. Peyton, welcome. 

Ms. PEYTON. Thank you. 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. Another fellow Chicagoan. I am happy to have 

you here. I loved to hear your story and read about it yesterday. 

It is good to see you persevere and be triumphant. 

Ms. PEYTON. Thank the Lord. 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. What is the first thing, what is the top thing we 

should do, Ms. Peyton? You are in the field, you see it. 

Ms. PEYTON. The first thing I think we need to do is to reevaluate if that is really going to be realistic in terms of 2015, as we 

are here now on the brink of 2013, we are here right now to come 

up with suggestions. I think the process here is kind of long to get 

things going, but I think it is moving in the right direction. 

Number one, I think I can speak as a disabled veteran and someone in a wheelchair, I think this is something new, why don’t you 

convene a congressional—a White House conference on veteran affairs? Now, that will be able to look at housing—don’t forget business because business creates the jobs. A lot of people, they look 

for jobs, but you have to have a business. Small businesses are 

driving—you need big business, too, because small business contracts with big business, so we have to keep everybody in the equation. So if we get a congressional and White House conference on 

small business, and we do that at the local levels, county levels, 

whatever the levels are that people come together nationally with 

the top recommendations with some action plans suggested and 

where are appropriations so people can start looking for those before they come. I think that we might be able to come up with some 

solutions. Please keep veterans in the process, not just on the sidelines, because that is important in making it happen. So again, 

your immediate response, I think we need to reevaluate the 

timeline. I think that is something we put together, that might be 

the answer, then I could shut up. And that could answer for us. 

How is that? 

Mr. GUTIERREZ. Please don’t. Thank you so much. 

14 

Ms. PEYTON. I love you. Thank you. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Hurt, is recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. HURT. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I was also hoping I could, with unanimous consent, make my opening statement 

a part of the record. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. HURT. I want to thank the Chair for her leadership on this 

issue, and I want to thank each of you all for your service to our 

country: Ms. Peyton; Mr. Hill; and Ms. Flanagan. I do think that 

as we face challenging times here in Washington, we have borrowed $16 trillion, we borrow 40 cents on every dollar we spend, 

to sustain that debt, sustain Washington’s spending, I do think 

that it is probably a uniform belief among all of us on both sides 

of the aisle that our top priority as a Nation is our national security and supporting those who provide that national security and 

those who have provided it, and so I think that this hearing is very 

important, and I hope that it will be useful in trying to address 

these really serious issues. 

Along with that, it seems to me—I was elected 2 years ago, so 

I have been here for a year-and-a-half. It appears to me from my 

time in Washington that there are scads and scads of different 

agencies that are charged with the responsibility of caring for those 

who have taken care of us in our national security and national defense, and not only are there Federal agencies, but you have State 

agencies, and in some places, you have local agencies that are all 

committed to this. 

I think that the intent is good, but what strikes me is as all 

these agencies work, and obviously a lot in the private sector as 

well, but from a government standpoint, it seems to me that as 

these agencies struggle to support our veterans on issues of finding 

housing, finding homes, finding jobs, and making sure that our veterans have high-quality health care, that it must be very, very confusing for anybody who wants to access those services, and I think 

about my own district office in Virginia where we have a great 

staff, and we will get calls from veterans or we will get calls from 

any constituent, and they will call seeking some help with something, and they will just be so relieved to finally find somebody who 

can help direct them in the right way because it is so confusing, 

there are so many different programs, et cetera, et cetera, et 

cetera, that it has to be overwhelming to those who are trying to 

access that, and so when they call, we just say, we are so glad you 

called because I think we can help you, but they hadn’t heard that 

before, because they just didn’t know where to go. 

And so this is sort of a general question, but I would love to hear 

from each of you what you think we can do to better make sure 

that our veterans know that there are services and that there are 

ways to access them, and how do we get that information to them 

so that they can get the services? Maybe I can start with you, Ms. 

Flanagan, and then go down the line. 

Mr. HILL. If I may, there is the Transition Assistance Program 

(TAP) that awaits the disembarking veteran. I think that before 

disembarkation, that this program or programs like them should 

tell veterans all of the resources, somehow all of the information 

15 

of these resources should be channeled through programs like this 

so there can be broad dissemination. 

Mr. HURT. Like a one-stop-shop? 

Mr. HILL. Exactly. The Transition Assistance Program is very 

important. 

Mr. HURT. Is that something that veterans or folks who are getting ready to go inactive, are they advised of this? Are they given 

information about this and are they given one number and one 

email address, and told, listen, if you have any problems, you call 

this number? 

Mr. HILL. It is a program that waits for them after they are discharged, and I think that, prior to the discharge, the veterans 

should have the assistance. Assistance in relating their military experience to civilian jobs is critical. 

Mr. HURT. Sure. 

Mr. HILL. And so with programs such as TAP, a lot of information, vital information is provided. 

Mr. HURT. My time is going to expire. I have about 20 seconds. 

Ms. Flanagan or Ms. Peyton, do you have anything to add? 

Ms. FLANAGAN. I want to say that it has been my experience that 

when people are discharged from the military, they are given a 

one-stop number and email, this is where you can go, and these are 

all the services that are provided, and the State that you are going 

to as well. I think the problem is every year or two, that number 

and that email changes, and the previous number and email, the 

information on those sites remain there, but they are no longer 

valid. So you still end up with this kind of confusion, and until 

someone calls your office, I guess, they never really get to where 

they are trying to get. So, yes. 

Mr. HURT. I think my time has expired. I would like to wrap up. 

I can hear from Ms. Peyton when we do another round. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. No, we are not going to do another round, 

so just quickly, I will give you 1 minute. 

Mr. HURT. Thank you. 

Ms. PEYTON. Quickly, I was going to say that I think we need 

to have that Congressional-White House conference or summit on 

veterans affairs, and we can come to that. As someone who has 

been involved in the small business community, the Congress, I 

want to thank you so much for the Congressional Veterans Business Act. That is how our Young Entrepreneurs of the Universe organization was founded, to help veterans become heroes at home, 

get involved to create businesses to take advantage of the congressional laws, especially for service-disabled veterans, to create specific jobs for those who are disabled, those who cannot work full 

time or regular part time. 

So I just want to say, when we do that, they said veteran businesses create more jobs for veterans than anybody else. So I think 

the private sector, the not-for profit sector, like Catholic Charities 

and people like you, the Congress, we love you all and the President, and I just want to say, I just want to thank, again, all of you, 

so much. 

Mr. HURT. Thank you, Ms. Peyton. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. The gentleman yields back. 

Mr. Green, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

16 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I especially 

thank the witnesses for appearing today. Your testimony has really 

touched my heart, it really has. As I listened to some of the testimony, I literally had tears welling in my eyes, especially, Ms. Peyton, when you talked about independence, independence and the 

importance of independence. 

When you have been blessed to have mobility and you are ambulatory, and you sacrificed for your country by virtue of being a veteran, independence is something that is instilled in you as a troop, 

a trooper, and I just, I was overwhelmed when you talked about 

this independence. 

So what I would like for you to do is elaborate just a little bit 

more for people who may be at home or some other place listening 

to this, just how important is it for our veterans to have independence in their homes and to be able to negotiate their way through 

their homes and to do the common things that we take for granted, 

get a glass of water, just to be able to reach that faucet and get 

your own water. Would you kindly elaborate on that for a moment? 

Ms. PEYTON. Absolutely. 

Thank you for the opportunity. Until I got into this wheelchair 

and was paralyzed on my left side, I couldn’t begin to know what 

it was to be disabled. I thought I knew something. So on behalf of 

everybody everywhere, people might not feel you are as sensitive 

as you need to be, you just don’t think about it until you are in 

that condition. So thank you for thinking about it. And I just ask 

you to think about something that is veteran-friendly. I have 

friends who can’t see. I have friends who have no arms. I have 

friends who have no legs. I have friends who can’t remember from 

one second to the next—I have to ask them things 2 or 3 times. 

But getting into your home, I was up on the third floor; I couldn’t 

go up there anymore. I don’t even know what went into the locker. 

If you can’t get through a door, even in a building like this, they 

have the bars in there, they have the wide door, but you can’t get 

in here unless somebody is going to push that door open. I can use 

my good leg to push it, which I will do. 

I am a trooper. So there are a lot of things that are necessary, 

and people have to get out of their homes; they are going to nursing homes because they don’t have accessibility. They don’t recommend that people go into their homes; they send people in to 

help them. These are things that are very important. Every one of 

us went into the military, whether we were drafted or whether it 

was voluntary, like me, with a sound mind, okay, with a sound 

body, and from a home address, and at least there ought to be 

some really amenable things to come back out so we can get more 

of a piece of the American dream. 

I know that Congress is working hard on it. And so I just want 

to thank you for the opportunity to be a part of this. And thank 

you, Catholic Charities, again. I can’t say it enough, what they 

meant to my life. I think the accessibility, just so that you know, 

I was in the accessibility business before. I never envisioned myself 

in this need to need accessibility, and I don’t talk about it, but boy 

is it important, and if we just think about when you go to a building that is, say, 10 stories high, 5 stories high, 4 stories high that 

has an elevator, probably none of you go to look for the stairs, you 

17 

go to the elevator. With someone like me, I can’t get up one stair. 

Think about us. If you can’t reach for the faucet, they have innovative kinds of things. I have been going through some of these research projects where they can help with things. Think about us; 

don’t think about dollars and cents in terms of it, the quality of life. 

Because the fact is disability can happen to anybody on a moment’s 

notice. You hear about cars running into people and people getting 

paralyzed from the neck down. So many different things that happen to you or a family member, then you become engaged because 

it becomes personal. Well, it is personal with me and my friends 

around me especially because veterans, it is personal, so if there 

is anything I can do to add to that, please let me know. I had something left to me I couldn’t even take because there was no accessibility. What can I do? And so, thank you all. Thank you. Thank 

you. Thank you. I love you all. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you. I thank you again. 

And I want to also, Madam Chairwoman, thank Mr. Heck, who 

is the cosponsor of the legislation, and Mr. Cleaver, and the Republican staff members who have been very helpful, and the Democratic staff as well. I believe that these things transcend party 

lines. They transcend ideology. They really are about helping people who have gone out of their way to help us. 

So, thank you again. 

And thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Dold, is recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. DOLD. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I certainly want to 

thank you for holding this important hearing. I want to thank my 

friend from Texas for his leadership on this legislation. And I agree 

with him wholeheartedly that I think this is a piece of legislation 

and a topic that transcends party lines. 

I think it is one of those things that we owe each and every one 

of you a great debt of gratitude. I want to thank each and every 

one of you for your service to our country and to all veterans who 

are out there. And this is an issue that I think we need to come 

together to try to rectify. As we look at what is happening out 

there as veterans who are coming off the front lines are coming 

back and finding themselves either on an unemployment line or 

looking for a place to live, that is something that we as a country 

need to address and need to solve. So I want to thank each and 

every one of you for taking your time and coming to testify before 

this body today to help us try to figure out how we can better move 

things forward and help our veterans. 

Mr. Hill, I wanted to start with you if I may. I certainly enjoyed 

hearing your story, it is certainly an impressive one, as everyone 

here testifying. But certainly I enjoyed, in essence, the family’s 

strongest rules: number one, never give up; and number two, always remember rule number one. Generally, that is what I hear 

from a lot of veterans; they never give up, which is why we have, 

I think, the strongest military in the world. But frankly, they are 

working too hard today to rely on your families rule number one 

and rule number two. 

18 

In your testimony, you noted a number of goals and objectives 

and methods that homeless shelters generally use to help homeless 

veterans achieve economic stability. And Ms. Peyton talked about 

small business, and we will certainly let her talk more about that 

in a minute. But in your experience, what goals and objectives and 

methods help you the most during your most difficult times? And 

could you shed some light on how this Congress can help improve 

those? 

Mr. HILL. Yes. At the shelter, I mentioned their challenging and 

vigorous programs. We are required to keep a journal, if you will, 

of our job search efforts and the contacts thereof, our goals for 

short-term periods and milestone achievement dates as well. And 

it is important that we do set goals, both short- and long-term, and 

that they be relevant to the end goal of economic stability and permanent support of housing. 

The same existed at St. Leo Campus for Veterans. But the important thing was the housing stability that was there and the case 

management who would assist with issues that would arise, issues 

concerning or problems were really and are readily addressed at 

the facility. Some of the goals that are relevant to a committee 

such as this would be to provide funding for further such housing, 

support of housing, for veterans in other States in major cities and 

rural sections as well. So I see this sort of support of housing as 

being key. Then, there is the aspect of existing properties that are 

owned by the Federal Government, in good condition, can be converted and services can be injected into those facilities for veterans 

who reside there. So, yes. 

Mr. DOLD. Ms. Peyton, you talked before a little bit about small 

business. As a small business owner, certainly I share your zest for 

small business and trying to make sure we are putting more people 

back to work. From your perspective, as we look at the unemployment rate, which is far, far, far too high today across the country, 

pick your State—it is generally too high, there are some exceptions 

to that—but generally, we are looking at a national unemployment 

rate of 8.1 percent. In Illinois, as we know, it is higher in the State 

of Illinois than it is nationally. What relationship do you put our 

economic and unemployment rate with that homelessness? And can 

you shed a little light on that? 

Ms. PEYTON. Absolutely. If you don’t have economics, you can’t 

be housed anywhere. As a matter of fact, for a lot of places, you 

can’t go if you don’t have some kind of income, even if you are 

homeless. That is crucial. Small business creates first a job for the 

person who is doing it, and then it expands as business expands. 

That is how jobs are created, in general. You have not-for-profit 

jobs and government jobs, but everything is based on people; it is 

based on sales. If a hospital doesn’t have the number of people in 

there, they close down. If a school doesn’t have the number of students, they close down. 

Now, there are other factors that go into that, but small business, veterans’ small businesses, they make the most jobs for veterans. And our organization just wants them to make sure that 

they have a small component that they cross-train people for, for 

jobs that can give people dignity. Because let me just share this 

with you: Besides the homelessness, for some, the homelessness 

19 

turns into suicide. People don’t talk about that. And that is an important thing because if somebody is talking to you, you know 

something is going on, but you can’t really get it, and the next 

thing you know, they are gone. And these are not people necessarily that you would consider basket cases. 

Plus, the face the homelessness has changed. It used to be thinking about the homeless as somebody who is just a derelict or something. A lot of homeless people now, especially veterans, they have 

doctor degrees, masters degrees, bachelor degrees. But the thing is, 

we need to start getting more into business. We need to think 

about that. And for veterans, even though they have—Congress has 

put some great programs together for veterans. But I am going to 

tell you one of the biggest things is the promotion of those and access to credit and capital. 

You might have to do some—what do they call those things, 

Madam Chairwoman? Amnesty for credit, amnesty for taxes, amnesty for educational loans, some way of looking at reassessing the 

Social Security Disability thing, because everybody is going to have 

to pay in for Social Security from their jobs at certain times to 

allow them to be able to get that stability of some kind of income 

to move forward. But certainly, we need to get back to that congressional and White House conference, summit conference of veterans affairs, and include that in there. And maybe—I was part of 

the White House Conference of Small Business back in 1986 and 

1995. I was selected from Springfield from the small business advocates, and I would just say this, I would probably add the component of not-for-profit organizations to be a resource there for, like, 

Catholic Charities and the like that have model programs. 

Catholic Charities is a place where when you walk into there, the 

only thing they need to have right now is for you to come and take 

a look. The place is wonderful. We need a little place for jobs. We 

have a job service program. But jobs, remember, everybody, it 

doesn’t come without business. Business creates jobs. So I would 

just say I love you all and thank you. 

Mr. DOLD. I thank the witnesses. 

And my time has expired, Madam Chairwoman. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

The gentlelady from California, Ms. Waters, is recognized for 5 

minutes. 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. I want 

to thank you for holding this hearing. 

I am sorry I could not be here at the beginning of the hearing, 

but this is one that I think we should all pay attention to. 

I would like to thank my colleague from Texas, Mr. Green, for 

all the work he has put into Housing for Heroes and the leadership 

that he has provided on this issue. And let me say to our panel, 

thank you for being here today. We do have Members from both 

sides of the aisle who are very concerned about the plight of our 

veterans, the housing problems that our veterans are encountering 

and the homelessness. The number of veterans on the street in 

America is shameful. 

And there is a lot of misunderstanding about why veterans are 

on the streets and homeless. A lot of people think, oh, veterans, 

certainly there are housing vouchers, or there are nonprofit organiVerDate Nov 24 2008 17:13 Mar 07, 2013 Jkt 076128 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 K:\DOCS\76128.TXT TERRI
20 

zations, there are churches, there are places for veterans. And your 

being here today will help us to understand why some of those 

thoughts about it being easy for veterans to find housing are just 

misplaced. It is just not true. 

I am from Los Angeles, and downtown Los Angeles is just full 

of homeless veterans. And so, I know you have been talking with 

our Members here today and telling them about your plight and 

what you learned and what you know. And I don’t want to ask you 

to go through it again, but I work with U.S.VETS very closely, but 

I know that U.S.VETS cannot accommodate all the veterans we 

have who are homeless. When a veteran is homeless and they have 

a disability, what is happening out there? Will that disability help 

to expedite assistance for them so that they can get into housing? 

You are shaking your head, Ms. Peyton. 

Ms. PEYTON. No. And that is one of the things—I am sorry, 

thank you so much, Congresswoman. One of the things I wanted 

to add—when you are invited to something like this, you are just 

so honored and overwhelmed, you just can’t get everything down. 

But I am in a wheelchair right now, paralyzed on my left side. I 

am an archer. I had 299—thanks so much, Congresswoman 

Biggert—actually 299 out of 300 with a bow. I am an archer right 

now. But not only has it given me the opportunity to do that; it 

has improved my self-esteem. So I want to throw in a plug for especially disabled or injured or wounded veterans to get involved in 

sports. They have adaptive sports for everything you can think of. 

I do scuba diving. I do golfing. I do swimming. I do—you name it, 

I am doing it, because they have assisted technology in order to 

help in that. And that is something a lot of your States and a lot 

of your places, you should really look at. Everybody, I would think, 

would want to have a committee of veterans, like a task force of 

veterans, wherever level you are to find out, and include people 

with disabilities. That is something that can be done. 

In terms of policy, I think they ought to have people who have 

disabilities, like myself, those who can’t see, those who have obvious things that are impediments to get housing and the like, to go 

to the head of the line. We are the ones who are really out there. 

But we have to wait like everybody else because of policies and regulations. I am sure people are not doing that on purpose. So if they 

can have that, that is one thing. 

The second thing I would say in terms of include everybody in 

the financial, whole financial picture. Our organization, the Young 

Entrepreneurs of the Universe, a veterans’ initiative, we partner 

with the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, and once a year, we 

have a program. Our next program will be April 25th at Jesse 

Brown VA Medical Center. We talk about fiscal budgeting, finance, 

all that. But small businesses— 

Ms. WATERS. What happens, Ms. Peyton, if one who is disabled 

goes to the VA and says, I need housing. What happens? 

Ms. PEYTON. That depends on who you talk to. In our program, 

we have a Wounded Lady Warrior Project that we are working to 

try to get in every VA hospital, at least most of the big ones, a 

place for lady veterans to come so they can galvanize resources in 

life, both Federal, State, whatever, and local resources, because we 

served. We might not be the majority, but we deserve also. And 

21 

since the majority of men take advantage, they can sit down anywhere in a hospital and talk to each other and network about this 

or that. For someone to say, maybe they could have a center there 

also, to be part to come and find out what specifically. 

I can give you an example. I saw a young lady at the hospital; 

she had no legs. I talk to every lady at the hospital. That is what 

I do when I see them. And I want to know, do they have any services? Do they have any needs, et cetera? And so I asked her where 

she was living. She said, an apartment. I said, how is it? She said, 

what do you mean? I said, can you get in your bathroom? She said, 

not in my chair. I said, what do you mean? She said, I have to get 

out of my chair and go on my hands and go into the bathroom. I 

said, do you have any bars? She said, no, I pull myself up on the 

sink. I said, well, you are coming to the hospital, what are you 

coming here for? She said, I am coming to get some legs. I said, 

we are going to get you set up with a social worker right now. So 

I took her over to the social work section. 

Now, she is coming to get legs. This has nothing to do with people and providing the proper services they have to do in the area, 

because one area is specializing in one thing and one is specializing 

in another. And everybody figures that it is covered, but it is not. 

Do you see what I am saying? So I am not blaming anybody. So 

maybe that might be something. We need places and information 

where people can get the same information. And the service providers, they can’t think of anything else. They need somebody to 

help them or some resource to help them to refer with something 

like that. So I just wanted to give you that as an example of something concrete that has happened. 

Ms. WATERS. I appreciate that. 

And I have to yield back my time. But there is an assumption 

that because we have such vast VA services in every city, every 

State, that once you go to the VA, you can tell them what your 

problems are, whether it is health or housing or what have you, 

and that they will work with you to connect you with those services. But obviously, what you are telling me is that not only is it 

not true, but the way that services are rendered in some places 

where you have to go to different places to access the services, that 

it is not easy, particularly if you are disabled. 

And, let me just say this and I will yield back. I am over time. 

There are some people, some Members of Congress, who are saying 

that the entire system needs to be revamped altogether, particularly as it relates to the claims that are put in for the disabled and 

the backlog that we all experience and the work that we are getting in our offices trying to help people get connected to have those 

claims worked on. Some people are saying we need to throw out the 

system altogether and come up with a system that works. 

Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

The Chair notes that some Members may have additional questions for this panel, which they may wish to submit in writing. 

Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 30 days 

for Members to submit written questions to these witnesses and to 

place their responses in the record. 

22 

Thank you all for being here today. You have been a wonderful 

panel. 

Ms. PEYTON. We thank you, too. I love you. Thank you so much. 

Praise God. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. And with that, this panel is dismissed, 

and we will call up the second panel. 

I ask unanimous consent to have Mr. Edward Quill, chief administrative officer, Volunteers of America of Florida, available to assist panel two witness Ms. Baylee Crone, technical assistance director, National Coalition for Homeless Veterans, during the panel 

two question-and-answer period. 

I also ask unanimous consent to insert the following material 

into the record: a September 12, 2012, letter from the National Association of REALTORS®; an April 15, 2012, letter from The American Legion; a September 11, 2012, statement from BAM House Incorporated; a September 11, 2012, statement from St. Paul’s Senior 

Homes & Services; a September 12, 2012, letter from the Midwest 

Shelter for Homeless Veterans; a September 12, 2012, statement 

from Volunteers of America of Florida; a September 14, 2012, letter 

from Rebuilding Together; a September 14, 2012, statement from 

A Safe Haven; a September 14, 2012, statement from Veterans Upward Bound; a September 14, 2012, statement from Congressman 

Joe Heck; and a September 14, 2012, statement from the Corporation for Supportive Housing. 

Without objection, it is so ordered. 

We will now turn to the second panel: Ms. Heather Ansley, Esquire, president of veterans policy, VetsFirst; Mr. Steve Berg, vice 

president for programs and policy, the National Alliance to End 

Homelessness; Ms. Baylee Crone, technical assistance director, the 

National Coalition for Homeless Veterans; Ms. Sandra Miller, 

chair, Homeless Veterans Committee of Vietnam Veterans of America; Mr. Arnold Stalk, founder of Veterans Village, Las Vegas, Nevada; and Ms. Eileen Higgins, vice president, Housing Services, 

Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Chicago, who is from my 

district. 

Thank you all for being here. 

With that, we will start with Ms. Ansley. You are recognized for 

5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF HEATHER L. ANSLEY, ESQ., MSW, VICE 

PRESIDENT, VETERANS POLICY, VETSFIRST 

Ms. ANSLEY. Thank you. Chairwoman Biggert, Ranking Member 

Gutierrez, and other distinguished members of the subcommittee, 

thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding VetFirst’s views 

concerning the housing needs of homeless, low-income, and disabled veterans. 

My oral testimony will focus on the needs of certain disabled 

and/or low-income veterans for assistance with home modifications 

and repairs. According to the Department of Veterans Affairs, 3.47 

million veterans receive VA disability compensation. Disability 

compensation is available for veterans who have an injury or illness that is caused or aggregated by their military service. In August 2011, 864,000 veterans reported having a service-connected 

disability rating by the VA of 60 percent or greater out of 100. In 

23 

addition, 300,000 low-income veterans who are either disabled or 

over the age of 65 who might meet other requirements receive VA 

pension benefits. 

Access to affordable accessible housing, as it was highlighted in 

the earlier panel, is a critical issue for many disabled veterans. The 

ability to return home after incurring a significant disability is an 

important aspect of reintegrating into your family and community. 

For veterans who have newly acquired injuries, this may mean living with family members for a time prior to focusing on securing 

their own homes. 

VA provides access to home adaptation assistance for eligible disabled veterans and servicemembers. These programs include the 

specially adapted housing and the special housing adaptation grant 

programs. These programs are available to veterans and 

servicemembers who are permanently and totally disabled as a result of a disability connected to their service and who have a qualifying disability. These grant programs provide a maximum of 

$63,780 and $12,756, respectively, as indexed for the cost of construction. A related program is the temporary residence adaptation 

grant program, which allows individuals who are eligible for both 

of the previous two programs but who do not have a home of their 

own to adapt a home of a family member. This is a relatively new 

program that has recently had some major changes to increase the 

number of veterans who might use this program. 

Another program that is available through VA is the Housing 

Improvements and Structural Alterations Program. Veterans who 

require an improvement or alteration to their home due to disability related to their service may receive up to $6,800, while 

those who are enrolled in the VA healthcare system but who do not 

have a service-connected disability may receive up to $2,000. 

VetsFirst fully supports the housing adaptation benefits currently available through the VA. Many of our members have greatly benefitted from the use of these programs. Furthermore, we support efforts to increase eligibility and funding amounts for individual grants to ensure that disabled veterans are able to live in 

their communities throughout their lives. We also understand that 

we must seek to leverage all resources if we are to meet the needs 

of veterans who are not eligible for VA programs but for whom 

home adaptations are a necessity. 

VetsFirst and Rebuilding Together, a national housing nonprofit, 

have collaborated with Representative Al Green in developing legislation that would help to meet these needs. The Housing Assistance for Veterans Act of 2012, the HAVEN Act, would authorize 

the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development to establish a 

pilot program that provides grants to nonprofit organizations to rehabilitate and modify homes of disabled and low-income veterans. 

The HAVEN Act leverages the resources of nonprofits by expanding their capacity to meet the housing adaptation and home repair 

needs of our disabled and low-income veterans. Many existing 

housing nonprofits and more recent veteran-focused housing nonprofits have stepped forward to assist in meeting the housing needs 

of these veterans. 

Nonprofits not only bring in volunteer leverage but also the private sector and foundations. Through a very small investment, the 

24 

HAVEN Act would engage nonprofits to test the ability to serve 

those who have served. Rather than directly providing services for 

veterans through Federal funding the proposal helps meet the need 

through national nonprofits that compete for limited funding. The 

pilot program would require HUD and VA to establish and oversee 

the program to ensure that veterans’ needs are addressed. We believe that this collaboration will build on the efforts of the VA and 

HUD to work together in addressing veterans’ homelessness. 

Veterans who are disabled and/or low-income would be eligible 

for assistance. The definition of disability considers the physical 

and mental limitations that veterans may face, regardless of 

whether the limitations are connected to their service. Low-income 

veterans are those whose incomes do not exceed 80 percent of median income for a particular area. When applying, organizations 

will need to detail their plans for working with the VA and veterans service organizations to identify those who can benefit. 

Preference will be given to organizations that have experience in 

providing housing rehabilitation and modification for disabled veterans and who serve veterans in rural areas. Organizations will be 

able to modify and rehabilitate the primary residence of an eligible 

veteran, rehabilitate a residence that is in a state of interior or exterior disrepair, and install energy-efficient features or equipment. 

Organizations will be required to provide a match of the grant 

award, and assistance must be provided either at no or very little 

cost to the veteran. The program would provide $4 million a year 

over a 5-year period. We believe that passage of this bipartisan legislation will help to address a portion of the housing needs of lowincome and disabled veterans who may otherwise have limited or 

no resources. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. This concludes my statement. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Ansley can be found on page 39 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

Mr. Berg, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF STEVE BERG, VICE PRESIDENT, PROGRAMS 

AND POLICY, THE NATIONAL ALLIANCE TO END HOMELESSNESS 

Mr. BERG. Thank you, Chairwoman Biggert. And thank you all 

for coming to this hearing today. 

I am Steve Berg, from the National Alliance to End Homelessness. 

There are many things that we in the housing field owe veterans. 

We owe them a lot more than just not being homeless. However, 

we do owe them not being homeless. And that is my area of expertise, so that is what I am going to talk about today. 

Once in a while in this country, we get a chance to do something 

really extraordinary. That extraordinary thing is to actually solve 

a problem, solve a social problem, not just take the edge off the 

problem, not just make people feel better about the problem, but 

actually solve the problem. 

I want people to come away from this hearing today understanding that we are right on the edge, right on the verge of having 

solved the problem of homelessness among veterans. There have 

25 

been many steps that people on this subcommittee, and other people in this room have been working on for years and years to get 

us to this point. 

Solving a social problem like this from a policy perspective, there 

are basically four steps to it. The first step is to put in place an 

overall monitoring and management infrastructure that tells us 

how big this problem is, whether it is getting better or worse, and 

holding people accountable for results. That has been done by the 

VA and HUD working together on things like the Annual Homeless 

Assessment Report and the veterans information in there. We now 

have much better information nationally and locally. People know 

if they are making progress. 

The second step is to put in place an array of program models 

that address all aspects of the problem. Veterans who are homeless 

range from people with the most severe disabilities who have been 

on the streets for years to people whose problems with housing are 

just short term; they are due to a short-term economic crisis. People in that whole range need different things. 

The VA and HUD together now have the range of programs in 

place, from the HUD-VASH program, which serves the most disabled people, to the new program, called the Supportive Services 

for Veterans Families Program, modeled after the Homeless Prevention and Rapid Rehousing Program that HUD ran to provide 

short-term assistance to people whose problems are basically economic. 

The third step is to fund those programs to scale. And I am 

happy to say that in the bills that the House Appropriations Committee has already passed, and the bills that the Senate Appropriations Committee has passed, what was in the Administration’s 

budget, the money is now on the table to fund these programs at 

the level they need to be funded at to make sure that every veteran 

who is homeless, and every veteran who is at severe risk of homelessness over the next couple of years, will get the services they 

need if those bills pass. We think they will pass. There is bipartisan support. So those are the first three steps. 

The fourth step, which we still have in front of us and which may 

be the hardest, is to put in place a local structure to ensure that 

these policies are implemented at the local level, that each veteran—and what this means in a very concrete sense is that each 

veteran who is homeless, each veteran who is at risk of homelessness will be found, will be contacted, will be brought into the system, and will get what they need to have stable housing. This is 

a challenge that people working in the field around the country 

have embraced, whether at VA or HUD, or at agencies such as 

those who have testified here today. There is a hunger for doing 

this out there. 

People all over the country want this to succeed. So what can 

this subcommittee do? Here are a few things: First, through monitoring and through oversight, make sure these programs are targeted the right way. There is a range of programs. Some are designed to help people with the most severe barriers; some are designed to work with people without such severe barriers. The HUDVASH program is the most important example. That is permanent 

supportive housing. It is deep, long-term rental subsidies combined 

26 

with intensive social services. Just about any low-income veteran’s 

life would be made better if they had this, if they had HUD-VASH. 

But the most severely disabled veterans, those who have been 

homeless the longest, they are going to stay homeless unless they 

get HUD-VASH. So, it is essential that HUD-VASH be targeted to 

this group. It is essential that VA and HUD programs work together at the local level. It is essential that people are assessed, 

that there is a coordinated assessment system at the local level to 

make sure that each veteran gets what they need. 

My time is up. If you have questions now or in the future, I am 

happy to answer them. But I want people to know we are on the 

verge of solving this problem. We have one more big step to take, 

and I hope we take it. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Berg can be found on page 47 of 

the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you, Mr. Berg. 

Ms. Crone, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF BAYLEE CRONE, TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE DIRECTOR, THE NATIONAL COALITION FOR HOMELESS VETERANS 

Ms. CRONE. Madam Chairwoman, Ranking Member Gutierrez, 

and distinguished members of the subcommittee, my name is 

Baylee Crone, and I am here representing the National Coalition 

for Homeless Veterans, the only national organization solely dedicated to preventing and ending homelessness among veterans. I am 

truly humbled to be a part of this panel of experts today. We have 

folks on this panel and on the previous panel who really know firsthand what the meaning is of this mission and have been working 

tirelessly for over 20 years to make this a reality. 

We are here today to talk about housing options for homeless 

veterans. And inevitably, as Mr. Berg stated, this starts with HUDVASH. And that is for good reason, given the incredible success of 

this program to date. I want to take a moment to express our deep 

gratitude at the bipartisan leadership of Congress in supporting 

the build-out of HUD-VASH. 

Today, we are closer to the goal of providing housing to 60,000 

chronically homeless veterans than many people thought could be 

possible in this short period of time. This targeted expansion has 

really changed the world as we know it. And this is for veterans, 

as Mr. Berg said, who would likely fail without the intensive support of HUD-VASH. I want to thank you for your diligent, thoughtful, sometimes critical, and really steadfast support of this important program. 

Now, while the progress of HUD-VASH is definitely something to 

be commended, HUD-VASH is not the full answer. Not all homeless and at-risk veterans need the intensive supports that are tied 

to a HUD-VASH voucher, but they still have critical care needs 

and face difficult obstacles. Homeless and at-risk veterans can have 

any combination of needs based on several risk factors, either related to generally being homeless, so it could have to do with their 

family history, illness, disability, or they might have risk factors 

and needs based on their service related to PTSD, traumatic brain 

injury, military sexual trauma, or chronic pain. What matters most 

27 

is that there is a comprehensive system of care that exists and is 

maintained to maximize the number and visibility of access points 

for veterans who are experiencing or at risk of homelessness. 

We must make sure that these various access points are connecting the homeless veterans to the services that meet their most 

pressing needs. And at this time, the most pressing need is access 

to affordable housing. When I say access to affordable housing, I 

mean options that increase the number of housing units available, 

but also that increase veteran access to existing units that are designated for low-income individuals. These options go far beyond 

HUD-VASH, and several of these programs have been and will be 

discussed by my colleagues. We have the programs and momentum 

to make it happen if we can continue connecting the right pieces 

within our communities. 

For the 20,000 veterans who are exiting grant and per diem programs each year, access to affordable housing is the key that leads 

to a real reduction in the number of homeless veterans who are 

showing up in the annual counts. The need, however, goes beyond 

those in HUD-VASH. The numbers of at-risk veterans who are accessing homeless-specific VA services are increasing at a staggering 

rate. You see over 1.4 million veterans who are currently low-income below the poverty level, and of those 1.4 million, it is estimated that up to around 150,000 of them are likely to experience 

homelessness. Stabilization and rapid rehousing is going to require 

a closely coordinated effort within communities to appropriately 

target resources and services. For over 20 years, homeless veteran 

service providers have understood that a network of care built 

around health services of the VA Medical Center is going to provide 

the best foundation to connect homeless veterans to the tools they 

need to promote housing stability. 

In 2011, the mandate that veteran data be captured in the 

Homeless Management Information System (HMIS), and integrated into community planning set the stage for this coordinated 

network to more thoroughly and efficiently connect the mainstream 

homeless resources of HUD. This data clarity now allows consolidated planning partners to more accurately prepare for the housing 

needs of veterans in communities. 

This does not demand proportional representation but rather equitable access. These veterans are not broken; they are often injured physically and mentally, but they aren’t beyond help if assistance is delivered with purpose. Access to affordable housing is a 

fundamental component of this healing process. It allows veterans 

to harness the strengths and skills that they gained through their 

service, to integrate back into their communities, and to contribute 

back as citizens. 

As we move forward in this era of interagency collaboration and 

integrated community planning, we have better opportunities to 

provide homeless veterans with the tools to remain successfully 

and sustainably housed. And I have 19 more seconds, so I just 

wanted to add that when we are talking about the success of the 

5-year plan, it is feasible by 2015. That doesn’t mean that veterans 

will not become homeless during that time period and beyond 2015. 

But the important piece is that we have the networks in place to 

be there for them and the access points in place to be there for 

28 

them if they do experience or are at risk of homelessness. Thank 

you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Crone can be found on page 52 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

Ms. Miller, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF SANDRA A. MILLER, CHAIR, HOMELESS 

VETERANS COMMITTEE, VIETNAM VETERANS OF AMERICA 

Ms. MILLER. Madam Chairwoman, and distinguished members of 

the subcommittee, good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to present testimony here today, where I will focus on HUDVASH. 

My name is Sandra Miller, and I am the chair of the Homeless 

Veterans Committee of Vietnam Veterans of America. I also sit in 

my real job as the director of homeless residential services at the 

Philadelphia Veterans Multi-Service & Education Center, which is 

really a mouthful, where I oversee the operations of 125 grant and 

per diem beds, 30 of which are designated for homeless women veterans. 

Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA) has as its number one legislative priority the issue of accountability, accountability at every 

level of any agency, Federal, State or local, impacting veterans and 

their families. Without accountability, countless dollars are lost to 

programs that are ineffective, inefficient, and even potentially unsafe. We must all be keepers of the gate, ensuring our programs 

are achieving the goals they were established to attain. 

After all these years of attention given to the homeless veteran 

issue, it remains a disturbing situation. Can we bring a total end 

to veteran homelessness? My sense is, no, because there will always be those who choose this way of life. 

We can however offer and assist those who seek change, but they 

can’t make it on their own; they can’t make it out of the darkness. 

So we continue to try to find a way to help those who are helping 

these veterans. 

VVA strongly supports and urges the continued funding and expansion of the HUD-VASH program. However, VVA has advocated 

for both HUD and the VA to establish an oversight mechanism 

monitoring for compliance to ensure its intended effectiveness. 

Oversight of the VASH program will prove to be an invaluable 

tool, creating effective processes, efficient utilization of dollars, and 

successful accomplishments. Oversight will ensure that vouchers 

are administered, distributed, and utilized to the fullest extent possible, and for the purpose they were intended. 

Are HUD-VASH vouchers being distributed equitably nationwide? We don’t know this. We do know that in some areas—we do 

know that some areas are saturated with vouchers, while others 

are screaming for more. We know that one of the barriers to providing housing vouchers in some locations is the lack of case management staff. Alaska is one prime example of the staffing situation which results in the delay in issuing or utilization of these 

vouchers. 

Are all VA medical centers providing the appropriate level of 

case management to the veterans in HUD-VASH? We don’t know 

29 

this either. We do know that case management activities vary from 

VA facility to VA facility. VVA does appreciate that case management is able to be contracted out to community service providers, 

and applauds the recognition that one no agency or organization 

can do it all. The VA and the veterans need these collaborations 

now more than ever if we are to end veteran homelessness. 

Here is what we do know: According to the 2011 annual homeless assessment report, there were over 67,000 homeless veterans, 

down 12 percent from 2010. As of May, there were 48,000 vouchers 

authorized and 39,000 in use. One challenge many of our veterans 

face in receiving HUD-VASH vouchers is the expense of moving 

into their new apartment. This has been addressed in some fashion 

by the awarding of VA-supported services for veterans’ families 

across the country. SSVF can assist veterans with these moving 

costs. 

Does HUD-VASH work? Yes, VVA believes it does. It does provide housing opportunities for homeless veterans. However, we are 

concerned that not enough attention is placed on income, motivation or continued housing stability of the veterans. If a veteran is 

placed in HUD-VASH with only minimum income, that income 

may not be enough to sustain that veteran. Recently, a number of 

veterans who came from my program into HUD-VASH who were 

receiving public assistance were cut off with no notice. They now 

have zero income. How do they survive? What assistance is there 

to ensure that they will be able to sustain their housing with no 

income? Realizing that HUD-VASH focuses on housing, it is our 

opinion that long-term sustainable income must be part of the intake assessment as well as ongoing case management. Demanding 

anything else is surely setting up the veteran to fail. 

Motivating the veteran to return to the workforce, if possible, or 

to seek additional income may prove to be an integral part of the 

case manager’s responsibilities. Case managers are their frontline 

defense for these veterans, and they should be assisting with all 

avenues. VVA believes in the importance of the housing first model 

as ideal for some veterans. However, VVA also believes that housing ready model may be the best fit for others. 

It has always been the belief of VVA that our homeless veterans 

must be given every opportunity to succeed in independent living. 

There are no cookie-cutter solutions and VVA embraces the interagency council’s mantra of no wrong door. In my written statement, 

I have outlined additional concerns that VVA has regarding VA 

homeless grand and per diem service centers and per diem payment methodology. VVA is committed to continuing the advocacy 

and effort to identifying supportive solutions that will make a difference in the lives of every veteran who finds themselves homeless. We hope that some of these solutions will help when that veteran finds herself home. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Miller can be found on page 70 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. 

Mr. Stalk, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

30 

STATEMENT OF ARNOLD STALK, PH.D., FOUNDER, VETERANS 

VILLAGE, LAS VEGAS, NEVADA 

Mr. STALK. Good morning. My name is Arnold Stalk, and I am 

the founder of Veterans Village, which is located in downtown Las 

Vegas, Nevada. I would like to thank the Members of the House 

of Representatives, and more specifically, a special thank you to 

this Subcommittee on Insurance, Housing and Community Opportunity. It is truly an honor to be here. 

I have been developing, operating, constructing, and advocating 

for special needs housing development since 1977. I began my career as a VISTA volunteer, and my first community project was a 

design of a methadone clinic for heroin addicts on Los Angeles’ 

Skid Row. I have developed and operated special needs housing developments such as emergency shelters, transitional housing, scattered site rental housing, and homeownership prototypes that are 

replicable developments throughout southern California initially, 

and then in other areas of the United States. 

The reason I go through this background is because I have been 

doing this for 37 years, and I believe that the system is broken. It 

is broken, but I believe that it is repairable. I have been in a private practice consultancy firm, and I also have my own nonprofit 

organization. In my career, I have been blessed to have the opportunity to be of service to create facilities and residences for people 

to create humanistic and respectful environments for people from 

all walks of life. 

I am a founder of Veterans Village in downtown Las Vegas, 

which is a 125-unit residence and is dedicated to the creation of an 

environment that is a home and a respite for United States veterans. This is a unique and innovative approach to holistic and 

comprehensive housing with collaborative support services. Public 

and private collaborative partnerships have been created to provide 

services to residents, including education and degree programs, nutritional programs, exercise, training, medical services, mental 

health counseling, specialized activities, and special events. 

One recent example of a truly public-private partnership is the 

Home Depot Foundation, in which our nonprofit share in Veterans 

Village has received a grant to rehabilitate and retrofit the Veterans Village through a Home Depot Day of Service program, 

which is scheduled for this coming October 25, 2012. 

I am here this morning to discuss barriers that homeless and 

low-income U.S. veterans face in securing housing assistance from 

Federal agencies. I would like to advocate for improved Federal 

agency collaborations, program efficiencies, and the administration 

of homeless and housing services for veterans along with the private sector. I also would like to express my support for H.R. 6361. 

In Las Vegas, Nevada, and southern Nevada, for example, the 

lack of affordable housing for veterans who are homeless, at risk 

of becoming homeless, and those more independent veterans who 

are seeking affordable housing is extremely limited. Additionally, 

there is a lack of collaborative efforts by and between public and 

private sector entities to provide better housing services as well. 

Obstacles that nonprofit organizations and faith-based organizations face in helping homeless and low-income veterans secure 

housing assistance and services from Federal programs is signifiVerDate Nov 24 2008 17:13 Mar 07, 2013 Jkt 076128 PO 00000 Frm 00036 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 K:\DOCS\76128.TXT TERRI
31 

cant, due to a lack of available housing, rental subsidy vouchers, 

HUD-VASH, Department of Veterans Affairs, Supportive Services 

For Veteran Families Program and other voucher programs, numerous bureaucratic delays, and the lack of improved collaborations between local, State, and Federal agencies along with nonprofit providers to advance the approval processes for veteran housing and related supportive services. 

Suggestions for improvement to Federal housing programs to better serve homeless and low-income veterans include: to enact H.R. 

6361, the Vulnerable Veterans Housing Reform Act; to create a 

one-stop shop processing system for veterans to access affordable 

and attainable housing, which will require local, State, and Federal 

agencies to work together to speed up the accessibility, affordability, and availability of housing and support systems for veterans; to provide incentives for private sector developers to develop 

newly built and retrofitted affordable and creative housing models 

for veterans and to create housing models for replication across the 

United States; and to create incentives for private sector businesses 

to provide medical and mental health employment opportunities, 

another service for our veterans as well. 

Our Veterans Village is an example of the public-private partnership that has taken an aging motel, which was about to close, and 

retrofitted it into a comprehensive resident and respite for our veterans. Partnerships in collaboration have been formed including 

the Medical Reserve Corps of Southern Nevada, the Las Vegas 

Urban League, Health of Southern Nevada, Lutheran Social Services, the American Red Cross, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, and others. This model is replicable in every State, city, county, and jurisdiction across the United States, providing affordable, 

attainable and respectable housing for our U.S. veterans. 

Thank you for this opportunity to testify and share my experiences today and the opportunity to be of service to our country. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Stalk can be found on page 79 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you very much. 

Ms. Higgins, you are recognized for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF EILEEN HIGGINS, VICE PRESIDENT, HOUSING 

SERVICES, CATHOLIC CHARITIES OF THE ARCHDIOCESE OF 

CHICAGO, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 

Ms. HIGGINS. Thank you, Chairwoman Biggert, Ranking Member 

Gutierrez, Representative Green, and members of the subcommittee. 

My name is Eileen Higgins, and I am here representing Catholic 

Charities of the Archdiocese of Chicago, where I serve as the vice 

president of Housing Services, including those programs serving 

homeless veterans. Persons without homes or on the brink of homelessness struggle with similar concerns: few affordable housing options; low-paying jobs; and lack of access to mental and physical 

health care and support. 

Veterans facing homelessness may have experienced many issues 

in war, including conflict-related injuries, both physical and psychological. Reentry to civilian life is often impeded, and veterans 

often experience a downward spiral into homelessness. 

32 

Additionally, employment can be challenging due to both the current economic climate as well as the need for training and 

transferrable skills to enter the civilian workforce. We at Catholic 

Charities are committed to ensuring our veterans are receiving appropriate care by providing wraparound services to assist them in 

achieving self-sufficiency to the highest degree possible. For nearly 

a decade, Catholic Charities has recognized that many of our clients needing emergency services are veterans. Homeless and hungry veterans dine at our Catholic Charities suppers, visit our emergency assistance center for food, clothing, and shelter, and access 

care through our substance abuse program. They benefit from our 

case management and counseling programs. 

We know how to reach out to veterans, and we know how to empower persons to overcome homelessness. One recent success story 

is our St. Leo campus for low-income veterans. This campus includes 141 units of supportive housing built by a collaborative effort of the VA, State and local government, and private funding, 

among which is the Illinois AMVET Service Foundation. Development of this residence was a part of a national project made possible by the VA. Catholic Charities and four other agencies were invited to participate in this program. Subsequent funding through 

the U.S. Department of Labor and the U.S. Small Business Administration has allowed us to expand services to veterans through its 

employment and training program. 

There are many partners in the successful administration of this 

program as well, including everyone from local private employers 

to the local VA health administration and the Council of Network 

Homeless Coordinators. For more than 5 years, agency representatives have participated in monthly gatherings with the VA staff 

and veteran services provided through VISN 12. These meetings 

allow for coordinated delivery of care and ongoing publicity for key 

programming. In fact, the key to the success of this program is the 

collaboration of so many partners in order to provide all of the 

wraparound services necessary to assist veterans who have multiple barriers to housing and employment, including mental and 

physical disabilities, chronic health problems, behavioral health 

issues, criminal records, and poor work histories. The veterans in 

our care receive intensive case management and supportive services, plus referral to our partners for services to address their complex level of need. 

At a higher level, the HUD-VASH voucher program is entirely 

key to assisting homeless veterans whatever their situation because it provides funds for case management services associated 

with the housing. These intensive personalized case management 

resources often make the difference between sustained stability 

and return to housing crisis. Some of the obstacles we face, even 

with the great collaboration, is the collaboration. Clearly defined 

roles and responsibilities in the communication of these—and communication of these among them. Early on, we experienced a 

breakdown in communication among our Federal partners when it 

came to a decision about who was coordinating the case management services, for example, and found it necessary to take the lead 

in describing and defining that role. On paper, this seemed to be 

33 

a duplication of services. However, in our analysis of the situation, 

it led us to understand that everybody played a role. 

Some of the obstacles that low-income veterans face in securing 

housing may include when a young man or women goes into the 

service, it is out of a sense of pride for their country, to support 

their education, or to open doors to a better future for themselves. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Ms. Higgins, if you could wrap up, we are 

facing a vote here. 

Ms. HIGGINS. We are indeed. So, I think I will thank you at this 

point for this opportunity. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you so much. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Higgins can be found on page 63 

of the appendix.] 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Unfortunately, we have a number of votes 

on the Floor, so we are going to have to conclude this hearing, and 

submit additional questions to you in writing. 

But we are going to take time—each of us will do one question. 

So if you could be as brief as possible. 

My question is that we have heard that HUD-VASH vouchers 

are not being tracked, so HUD doesn’t know if the vouchers have 

actually gone to veterans and that veterans are housed. How could 

we solve this problem? 

Mr. Berg, we will start with you, in one sentence. 

Mr. BERG. I think HUD does know that they are going to veterans. I think that is—the big part is, are they going to the veterans who are the most disabled, who won’t get out of homelessness any other way? I think that is the key question. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Anyone else? 

Okay. Then, we will go to Mr. Green. 

Mr. GREEN. And I will be very brief. 

Quickly please, and you can maybe simply raise your hands, if 

you agreed with the three previous witnesses in terms of what they 

said about modification and accessibility? Would you just kindly 

raise a hand? Let’s let the record reflect that everyone agrees. 

Madam Chairwoman, I yield back. 

Chairwoman BIGGERT. Thank you. I am sorry that we have to 

cut the hearing short. 

The Chair notes that some Members may have additional questions for this panel, which they may wish to submit in writing. 

Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 30 days 

for Members to submit written questions to these witnesses and to 

place their responses in the record. 

I thank you all. And you have great written statements, which 

are very helpful to us, and we will submit questions for you. 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. 

And with that, this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.] 

(35) 

A P P E N D I X 

September 14, 2012 

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