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MR. SMITH QUESTIONS ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE

MARC GROSSMAN AT HIRC HEARING, OCTOBER 29, 1997
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EXCERPTED FROM THE HEARING TRANSCRIPT, PP 21-22.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  ̄Without reciting the lengthy list of Turkish human rights violations, including the use of torture, it is fair to say that Turkeys record

of implementation of OSCE human dimension commitments is very

poor. For example, the Committee, to protect journalists, has documented the fact that at least 47 Turkish journalists, the largest number of any country in the world, remain imprisoned.

I would just like to ask you if you can give the current thinking of

the Administration on the issue and whether or not there will be an

insistence that, if it is to occur, the summit in Turkey sometime next

year, that there first needs to be progress in the area of human rights.

And second, we all know that the Romanians had originally talked

about making a bid for that, but it was during the election, although

that is over now, and we all know that, probably more than anyone

else, the Romanians are moving very aggressively in a whole host of

fronts to make that democracy work.

Would Bucharest then be an alternative venue, and is that something you might pursue?

Mr. GROSSMAN. Mr. Smith, thank you very much for those questions. Let me try to respond as candidly as I possibly can.

First, sir, I hope that you know my record as the ambassador to

Turkey, which was that we spoke about, was committed to and kept

after this question of human rights. And I want to say, and I have no

fear of saying it out loud and in public, as I have done on many times

in the past, that precisely the issues that you raised, banning of torture in Turkey and the fact that there are too many journalists in jail

in Turkeyzero is too manytoo many journalists in jail in Turkey

is very much of concern to me personallywas when I was the ambassador to Turkey, remain now.

I believe, as I said to Mr. Gilman earlier, and to Mr. Hamilton, that

an answer to most of Turkeys problemsI dont say all Turkeys problems, but most of Turkeys problemsis more democracy and not less

democracy. And I hope, Mr. Smith, you will hear me continue to speak

out that way, because that is what I believe and I believe that is what

the Administration is committed to. Human rights is a very important part of our agenda with Turkey.

Second, sir, on the question of the OSCE summit, or the summit in

Istanbuland here I would take Mr. Lantos invitation to be candid

we have made a decision about what to do about Istanbul, and we

have to do that, I think, sometime before December; and we look forward to continuing in consultation with you about that.

But let me say two things. It is my instinct hereand I just speak

personally. It is my instinct here that we want to continue to try to

engage the Turks in this conversation about their commitments and

about the OSCE and about the kinds of things that they need to do to

become more democratic, and I have a very practical piece of evidence here which might lead me to recommendation. I wont say what

it is right now, but it might lead me to a recommendation, and that is

I happened to be the ambassador to Turkey when Habitat II took

place in Istanbul; and I must say, sir, that having this huge international conference in Turkey was a wonderful thing, it was a wonderful thing for Turkish NGOs, it was a wonderful thing for those parts
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of civil society in Turkey that didnt have a chance to sort of break out

and be part of an international community before. It gave confidence

to people in civil society in Turkey that lots of things were happening

in the world, and it was a very exciting time. And would I have missed

it? No, I think it would be too bad. Did I think it added to Turkish

civil society? Yes, I think it did.

So my instinct about this is always going to be one of engagement,

and I recognize that that may be a debatable point, but my instinct

would be for engagement. My model would be Habitat, and I would

need to think about that.

But to answer your question very directly, I cant imagine that we

would go forward in discussions with Istanbul without also talking

about the requirements and needs and interests of not just the United

States, obviously, but other countries as well, and I would say, of

many people in Turkey for more democracy in Turkey.

Mr. SMITH. Just very briefly to follow up, I think the opportune

time to press for those human rights issues would be before any decision is made, and I think you would agree with that. Second, did Habitat really produce any long-lasting changes in the area of human rights

even though that was not the focus of it?

Mr. GROSSMAN. No, sir, and I dont mean to beI am sorry, can I

ask a question?

Mr. BEREUTER. Briefly.

Mr. GROSSMAN [continuing]. Dont mean to be misunderstood.

 What I was trying to say was that Habitat, for the purpose it served,

which opened up to Turkish people and to NGOs and to civil society

there a window on the world, which was more than beneficial.

EXCERPTED FROM THE HEARING TRANSCRIPT, PP 31-32.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you very much, I appreciate that. First of all, I

want to acknowledge that our former Member, good friend, and colleague, Tom Evans, from Delaware, is in the room. Welcome to the

Committee.

Mr. Ambassador, just let me ask you again. In reflecting on your

statement with regard to the OSCE summit, I wonder about the lesson learned from the U.N. Habitat conference held in Turkey several

months ago.

The lesson learned may be the wrong one, and I say this with all

due respect. When we are talking about shelter and something around

which there is a clear consensusmore housing, better housing,

cleaner housing, and things of that kindit does not provoke a government to crack down on opposition. Last night Mr. Hoyer, Mr. Cardin, Mr. Solomon, Mr. Markey, and I introduced a resolution, H. Con.

Res. 179, which would express the sense of Congress that until there

is progress in the area of human rights the venue ought to be changed.

I asked you about Romania, whether or not that might be suitable,

and perhaps you might want to respond to that because, again, they

are breaking their backs to try to move toward democracy, human

rights, civil society and the whole list of items that all of us enjoy.

There is disappointment in Bucharest that they were not invited to

be part of NATO during this first round. This might be one way of at

least recognizing their progress.
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The sense of the Congress, the operative line just says, until there

is progress. It is a concern. I just want to raise that in the context of

the Habitat Conference. We know that the NGOs that are getting

raided are the human rights foundation of Turkey, and their chapter

offices throughout Turkey are the ones whose doors are being crashed

and whose people are being dragged away. And as you know so well,

as former ambassador, journalists when they write ill of the ruling

party sometimes find themselves being arrested. In a way, that is a

major part of civil society.

As much as all of us in politics sometimes loathe the reports we get

from newspapers, I, like many of my colleagues, would defend freedom of the press to the hilt because it is one of the greatest protections of our democracy. Yet they have targeted the journalists in a

very special way. So I would hope, as the thinking progresses on this,

that the Habitat experience might be taken into consideration.

I argued the same thing unsuccessfully, when the womens conference was held in Beijing. I was in Beijing for a week. I co-led the

delegation for Congress to that. And I was amazedI dont read Chinese, but I got the Chinese newspapers every day and had somebody

who could understand Chinese read major headlines to me and some

of the articles. I would then juxtapose that with what was going out

to the rest of the world, which was critical of Beijing, as it ought to be,

versus what was being used for internal consumption. The Chinese

regime saw it as a major public relations coup, that somehow we were

honoring the human rights of women in China, when you and I know

that that regime treats women as second-class citizens and commits

crimes like forced abortions and other heinous acts. I am certain, especially given the control over the press, that this kind of summit will

lead to that same kind of internal press. There might be some negative articles, but those journalists might find themselves in jail as a

result.

So I would just ask that the Habitat conference be seen as significantly different from this kind of conference, which is seen as a reward of sorts. I would ask if that would be part of your consideration.

Ours is a bipartisan resolution, and we do think that there is a venue

that might be better. Unless there is progress, we would be tripping

over ourselves to say, Turkey, that is just fine and dandy.

So it is a conditional sense that we have that we really want to see

some progress. I just commend that to your thinking.

Mr. Grossman. Mr. Smith, thank you very much. I certainly take

your point.

I obviously take lessons from where I can find them, and I certainly

am not trying to argue with you. The only point I was trying to make

on Habitat was exactly the point you made, which is, how do you

expand civil society; and Habitat helped us do that and, more importantly, helped Turks do it for themselves.

 You properly said, and I said, I havent made a decision. I was

trying to inform myself and I am grateful for your views.

Mr. Smith. Again, it is how they treat their opposition. The threat

doesnt come from shelter building, but it does come from somebody

who says, wait, I dont like this policy. The next thing you know, they

get the knock in the middle of the night from the police.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Grossman. Yes, sir.
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S. CON. RES. 59, INTRODUCED BY SENATOR DAMATO,

 OCTOBER 31, 1997
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LETTER TO ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE MARC

GROSSMAN, DATED NOVEMBER 3, 1997
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LETTER TO SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE K. ALBRIGHT,

DATED DECEMBER 5, 1997
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QUESTION SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD TO ASSISTANT

SECRETARY JOHN SHATTUCK

HOUSE INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE

FEBRUARY 3, 1998

TURKEY

Question. With respect to Turkeys bid to host the next OSCE summit, you are probably well aware of opposition I have voiced given

that countrys dismal human rights record_a view shared by a bipartisan group of my colleagues on the Helsinki Commission. When Secretary Grossman appeared before this Committee last October, we

discussed the proposed summit and he stressed the positive impact

such high-profile meetings can have on civil society in Turkey.

As you may be aware, the OSCE convenes an implementation review meeting immediately preceding summit meetings. In light of

Secretary Grossmans remarks, and mindful of your upcoming trip to

Turkey, have you raised or will you raise the possibility of Turkey

hosting the implementation review meeting as well as the summit,

should_and I stress should_Ankara actually institute genuine human

rights reforms that lead to real change?

Answer. We share your concerns about the human rights situation

in turkey and have raised these issues with the Government of Turkey. We have raised the possibility of an OSCE Implementation Review Meeting in Turkey, preceding an OSCE summit meeting, with

turkish government officials. The Turkish Government is willing to

consider hosting such an event if proposed by the OSCE. While Istanbul is still the only summit venue under consideration, its candidacy

is currently being blocked by one OSCE participating state. It is unclear how or when this impasse may be resolved in the near future,

leaving open the possibility of an alternative venue for the 1999 summit.
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LETTER TO SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE K. ALBRIGHT,

DATED MARCH 18, 1998
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LETTER TO SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE K. ALBRIGHT,

DATED FEBRUARY 12, 1999
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LETTER FROM ASSISTANT SECRETARY BARBARA LARKIN,

DATED MARCH 17, 1999
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STATEMENT OF VAN Z. KRIKORIAN, CHAIRMAN, BOARD OF

DIRECTORS, ARMENIAN ASSEMBLY OF AMERICA

MARCH 18, 1999

Chairman Smith, Co-Chairman Campbell, and CSCE Commissioners, I thank you for the opportunity to submit a written statement on

behalf of the Armenian Assembly of America.

The Armenian Assembly is a national non-partisan, non-profit organization that promotes public understanding and awareness of issues of concern to Armenian-Americans and many other Americans

of good will. Our organization promotes the rule of law, human rights

and strengthening civil society via the indigenous non-governmental

community. US AID funded the Assembly to promote the development and growth of Armenias NGO sector, including organizations

dedicated to human rights, the rule of law and social welfare. Now in

its fifth year of operation, our program has served over 700 NGOs.

The Assembly has also been an active participant in OSCE and CSCE

conferences in the past.

Mr. Chairman, the Armenian Assembly joins scores of other NGOs

in urging that the forthcoming Istanbul Summit of Heads of State or

Government provide for the broadest possible participation by the

international community. NGOs, particularly those active in human

rights, the environment, and security matters, should not only be allowed, but be encouraged to participate fully in the Istanbul Summit.

Prior to the Summit, the international NGO community should also

be encouraged to engage comprehensively in any preparatory review

meetings.The selection of Istanbul for the biennial Summit was controversial.

Given Turkeys long established record of failing to meet OSCE

and other international norms on human rights, minority rights and

the rule of law, many expressed strong reservations with the selection. Turkeys continuing denial of the Armenian Genocide, including

the suppression of free speech on the issue, as well as its often times

destabilizing role in the peace and security of the region, are among

the valid reasons for concern.Ultimately, consensus was achieved and

Turkey was accorded the privilege of serving as Summit host. We call

to the CSCEs attention that Armenia withdrew its reservation despite Turkeys refusal to establish normal and full diplomatic relations, to end the blockade of Armenia which is in violation of U.S. and

international laws, and the failure to support the current OSCE peace

plan on the Nagorno Karabagh conflict. It is our understanding that

prior to consensus being reached, Turkey assured the United States

that the international NGO community would be accorded unfettered

participation in the preparatory review meeting in Turkey, as well as

the Summit. We call on the CSCE and the Clinton Administration to

insure that Turkey fulfills these commitments. Specifically building

on the OSCE tradition of full NGO engagement, we expect that the

host countrys NGO community will be allowed to establish a Parallel

Activities Committee and Secretariat. We further expect that the

Parallel Activities effort will be free from government interference

and will be open to all domestic and international NGOs. We believe

such a step will ultimately serve the cause of the OSCE, and more

importantly, a healthy Turkish society.