From: Robert Berman [mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:46 PM 

To: Hirsch, Bruce R 

Cc: 'Bob Smith'; 'Robert Berman'; 'Alex Hofmann'; 'Andrew Delaski'; 'Creevy Jim'; 'Cohen Dan'; 'Carlos 

Siquieros'; 'Brenda Edwards'; 'Eduardo Robles'; 'Daniel Young'; Aris Marantan; 'Art Rosenfeld'; 'Bob Saint'; 

Brian Coffey; Caitlin Johnson; 'Gaytan Carlos'; 'Caskey, John'; 'Charlie Drexler'; 'Charlie Stevens'; 'Chris 

Bolduc'; 'Clark Silcox'; 'Eric Peterson'; 'Freeman, Jeremiah'; 'Fernstrom Gary'; 'Coulter Greg'; 'Greg 

Rosenquist'; 'James Lass'; 'Jennifer Tiedeman'; 'Raba Jim'; 'Jerry Corkran'; 'Jerry Hodge'; 'Jerry Schoen'; 

'Mauer Joanna'; 'Cymbalsky John'; 'John Rossetti'; 'Coughlin Katie'; 'Winder Ken'; 'Mahesh P. Sampat'; 

'Matt Miller'; Matthew Nardotti; 'Waltner Meg'; 'Meyers, Aaron'; 'Michael Hyland'; Michael Rivest; 'Millure, 

Dave'; 'Phil Harter'; 'Phil Hopkinson'; 'Polinski Raymond'; 'Kumar Puesh'; 'Rick Anderson'; 'Rob Greeson'; 

'Thomas Patzner'; 'Robert van Buskirk'; 'Roy Robin'; 'Ryan Paul'; 'Scott Beck'; 'Simmons, Chuck'; 'Steve 

Nadel'; 'Chad Kennedy'; 'Steve Rosenstock'; 'Tim Ballo'; 'Tom'; 'Wes Patterson'; Zhimei Luo; 'Vijay 

Tendulkar'; 'Richard Parker' 

Subject: Re: MVLF and LV Groups 

Given that the presentation suggested load factors on the LV dry-type transformers in the 12 - 

16% range (with many even in the 6-7% range) due to fire codes, we should be looking at the 

lower end for those units. For MVLF, we might want to drop to 25% or 30% to address the 

market that many rural coops face. 

Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

www.BermanEconomics.com

1915 Grand Court

Vienna, VA 22182

703‐281‐0490

703‐655‐8398 (cell)

BermanEconomics@gmail.com

On Oct 4, 2011, at 4:35 PM, Hirsch, Bruce R wrote: 

I see value in this exercise regardless of how it is reported.

I would like to see these calculations be done at both the 50% average load and at 35% average load to

give an idea of the sensitivity of the loading factor.

                                                                                                                                Bruce

From: Bob Smith [mailto:bsmith@federalpacific.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:44 PM 

To: 'Robert Berman' 
Cc: 'Alex Hofmann'; 'Andrew Delaski'; 'Creevy Jim'; 'Cohen Dan'; 'Carlos Siquieros'; 'Brenda Edwards'; 

'Eduardo Robles'; 'Daniel Young'; 'Aris Marantan'; 'Art Rosenfeld'; 'Bob Saint'; 'Brian Coffey'; 'Johnson 

Caitlin'; 'Gaytan Carlos'; 'Caskey, John'; 'Charlie Drexler'; 'Charlie Stevens'; 'Chris Bolduc'; 'Clark Silcox'; 

'Eric Peterson'; 'Freeman, Jeremiah'; 'Fernstrom Gary'; 'Coulter Greg'; 'Greg Rosenquist'; Hirsch, Bruce R; 

'James Lass'; 'Jennifer Tiedeman'; 'Raba Jim'; 'Jerry Corkran'; 'Jerry Hodge'; 'Jerry Schoen'; 'Mauer 

Joanna'; 'Cymbalsky John'; 'John Rossetti'; 'Coughlin Katie'; 'Winder Ken'; 'Mahesh P. Sampat'; 'Matt 

Miller'; 'Matthew Nardotti'; 'Waltner Meg'; 'Meyers, Aaron'; 'Michael Hyland'; 'Michael Rivest'; 'Millure, 

Dave'; 'Phil Harter'; 'Phil Hopkinson'; 'Polinski Raymond'; 'Kumar Puesh'; 'Rick Anderson'; 'Rob Greeson'; 

'Thomas Patzner'; 'Robert van Buskirk'; 'Roy Robin'; 'Ryan Paul'; 'Scott Beck'; 'Simmons, Chuck'; 'Steve 

Nadel'; 'Chad Kennedy'; 'Steve Rosenstock'; 'Tim Ballo'; 'Tom'; 'Wes Patterson'; 'Zhimei Luo'; 'Vijay 

Tendulkar'; 'Richard Parker' 

Subject: RE: MVLF and LV Groups

 

Dear Robert:

You are correct that there is a definite KW‐HR savings that can be quantified in dollars, when higher

efficiency equipment is bought.   

When considering an investment,  for which an expected $ savings will occur,  most privately held

commercial and industrial companies feel they must obtain  a payback within  3‐5 years.  Should we not

see this financial attribute, the payback period,  be calculated with each of the design alternatives

referenced to the CSL‐0 designs, particularly in the non‐utility markets served by the LV and MV dry‐type

manufacturers?    The payback calculation is very simple:  You just divide your (incremental delivered 

transformer cost) by (the annual KW-HR savings). No present worth, LCC, discount rates or Crystal

Balls are needed.

Thanks,  

Bob Smith, PE

Product Manager

Federal Pacific

601 Old Airport Road

Bristol, VA 24201 

TEL: (276) 645-8836

FAX: (276) 645-8212

CELL: (276) 591-6143

Email: bsmith@federalpacific.com

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From: Robert Berman [mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:57 PM 

To: Richard Parker 

Cc: Alex Hofmann; Andrew Delaski; Creevy Jim; Cohen Dan; Carlos Siquieros; Brenda Edwards; Eduardo 

Robles; Daniel Young; Aris Marantan; Art Rosenfeld; Bob Saint; Brian Coffey; Bruce Smith; Johnson 

Caitlin; Gaytan Carlos; Caskey, John; Charlie Drexler; Charlie Stevens; Chris Bolduc; Clark Silcox; Eric 

Peterson; Freeman, Jeremiah; Fernstrom Gary; Coulter Greg; Greg Rosenquist; Hirsch, Bruce R; James 

Lass; Jennifer Tiedeman; Raba Jim; Jerry Corkran; Jerry Hodge; Jerry Schoen; Mauer Joanna; Cymbalsky 

John; John Rossetti; Coughlin Katie; Winder Ken; Mahesh P. Sampat; Matt Miller; Matthew Nardotti; 

Waltner Meg; Meyers, Aaron; Michael Hyland; Michael Rivest; Millure, Dave; Phil Harter; Phil Hopkinson; 

Polinski Raymond; Kumar Puesh; Rick Anderson; Rob Greeson; Robert Berman; Thomas Patzner; Robert 

van Buskirk; Roy Robin; Ryan Paul; Scott Beck; Simmons, Chuck; Steve Nadel; Chad Kennedy; Steve 

Rosenstock; Tim Ballo; Tom; Wes Patterson; Zhimei Luo; Vijay Tendulkar 

Subject: MVLF and LV Groups

 

I'd like to reconsider my response to John Cymbalsky, at the end of the LV meeting, regarding 

showing the cost per kWh saved (based on the incremental delivered transformer cost and the 

incremental energy savings, compared to dEL0). I believe John is correct and the cost per kWh 

SHOULD be shown for each dEL/TSL/CSL for the life of the transformer. This is simply the 

ratio of the 30 year stream of annual kWh savings (discounted at 3% and 7%) to the incremental 

delivered transformer cost. Showing this in all groups will provide a common comparison for all 

transformers as well as the a common reference for other energy savings programs in DOE's 

portfolios as well as the efficiency portfolios of the other participants. 

 

I, of course, remain supportive of Tom Panzer's recommendation for a TSL basis, also discussed 

at that meeting. 

Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

www.BermanEconomics.com

1915 Grand Court

Vienna, VA 22182

703‐281‐0490

703‐655‐8398 (cell)

BermanEconomics@gmail.com
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