1

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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4


### Public Hearing on 5


### Proposed Petroleum Refinery Sector Risk and 6


### Technology Review and New Source 7



### Performance Standards 8

9

10

11



### 9:09 a .m. 12



### Wednesday, July 16, 2014 13

14


### Banning's Landing Community Center 15



### 100 E. Water Street 16


### Wilming ton, California 90744 17

18

19

20

21

222

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### EPA Panel : 1



### PENNY LASSITER, Panel Chairman; and 2


### Group Leader, Refining and Chemicals Group 3


### Sector Policies and Programs Division, 4


### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 5



### BRENDA SHINE, 6


### Office of Air Qualit y Planning and Standards 7



### SHAHEERAH KELLY , Region 9 Off i ce 8



### ELIZABETH ADAMS , Region 9 Office 9

10



### INTERPRETERS: 11



### MAYRA CARILLO 12



### VERONICA HERNANDEZ 13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### DAVID FRIEDMAN, 3



### American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers 1 1 4



### HOWARD FELDMAN, A merican Petroleum Institute 18 5



### MICHAEL WANG, 6



### Western States Petroleum Association 2 4 7



### DAVID CAMPBELL, United Steelworkers 3 0 8


### TAMANNA RAHMAN, American Lung Association 3 6 9



### FLAVIO ME RCADO , 10



### Coalition for a Safe Environment 4 3 11



### SOFIA CARRILLO ( via interpreter)
, 12


### Community Organizer, Wilmington, California 4 6 13


### MARBELLA CARRILLO (via interpreter)
, 14


### Resident of Wilmington, California 5 0 15



### EVELYN KNIGHT , 16



### Resident of West Long Beach, California 5 1 17


### SHABAKA HERU, Society for Positive Action 5 4 18



### RICARDO PULIDO, 19



### Coalition for a Safe Environment 5 8 20



### JORGE MADRID, Environmental Defense Fund 69 21

224

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### JESSE MARQUEZ, 3



### Coalition for a Safe Environment 76 4



### ALFRED CARRILLO, 5


### Resident of Wilmington, California 84 6



### ADRIAN MARTINEZ, 7


### Staff Attorney with Earth Justice 87 8



### CYNTHIA BABICH, Del Amo Action Committee and 9


### Los Angeles Environmental Justice Network 95 10



### RUBINA SUWOL, California Safe Schools 102 11



### JANE WILLIAMS, 12


### California Communities Against Toxics 104 13



### CHRISTINE ARAQUEL, 14


### People's Community Organization for 15



### Reform and Empower ment, People's CORE 114 16



### FLORENCE GHARIBIAN, 17


### Retired Federal and State Employee 117 18



### ALBERT CASTANON, 19


### Resident of Wilmington, California 125 20



### KATHLEEN WOODFIELD, San Pedro and Peninsula 21



### Homeowner's Coalition 129 225

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### JOAQUIN AMADOR, 3


### Resident of Wilmington, California 136 4



### FE KOONS, Resident of Carson, California 140 5



### DAN HOFFMAN , 6


### Resident of Wilmington, California 144 7



### WILLIAM KOONS, 8



### Carson Beautification Committee and 9


### Philippine Action Group for the Environment 152 10



### JOSE LUIS MUNTOZ (via interpreter)
, 1 67 11


### SILVIA NUNEZ (via interpreter)
, 12


### Resident of Wilmington, California 169 13



### ONOFRE TORRES, 14



### Resident of Torrance, California 170 15



### DREW WOOD , 16


### Resident of Wilmington, California 175 17



### ABRAHAM CABRERA , 18


### Resident of Wilmington, California 187 19



### SAM REVELES , 20


### Resident of Wilmington, California 189 21

226

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1


### MS. LASSITER: Good morning, and thank 2


### you for coming out today. My name is Penny 3


### Lassiter. Thank you for attending this public 4


### hearing. I am the Group Leader for the Refining 5


### and Chemicals Group in the Sector Policies and 6


### Programs Division in EPA's Office of Air Quality 7


### Planning and Standards. We are a National 8


### Headquarters office, but we are located out of 9


### Research Triangle Park, North Carolina. 10


### I will be chairing the hearing this 11


### morning

-- and all day, in fact

-- and joining me 12



### on the pan el, with me are Brenda Shine with EPA's 13


### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards and 14



### Shaheera h Kelly from EPA's Region 9 office here 15



### in California. 16


### We are here today to listen to your 17


### comments on EPA's Proposed Petroleum Refinery 18



### Sector Risk and Techn ology Review and New Source 19



### Performance Standards. 20


### EPA published the proposed standards in 21


### the Federal Register on June 30th, 2014. This 227

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### p roposed r ule is based on the risk and technology 1


### review of two emission standards already in place 2



### at refine ries: t he National M ission Standards 3



### for H azardous Air Pollutants from P etroleum 4



### R efineries, which we refer to as R efinery MACT

-- 5



### M

- A

- C

- T, which is M aximum A chievable C ontrol 6



### Technology

-- "Refinery MACT 1"; and the National 7



### Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants 8


### for Petroleum Refineries, specifically for 9


### catalytic cracking units, catalytic reforming 10


### units, and sulfur recovery units, which we refer 11


### to as "Refinery MACT 2." 12


### The EPA is proposing additional emission 13


### control requirements for storage tanks, flares, 14


### and coking units at petroleum refineries. The 15


### EPA is also proposing to require monitoring of 16



### air concentrations of air concentrations at the 17


### fence line of refinery facilities as an approach 18


### for managing emissions of fugitive sources and 19



### also to en sure that neighboring communities are 20


### not being exposed to unintended toxic air 21



### emissions. 228

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### When fully implemented, the provisions in 1



### this draft rule will result in a reduction of 2


### approximately 5,600 tons per year of toxic air 3



### pollutants and 52,000 tons pe r year of volatile 4


### organic compounds, or VOC. 5


### Today, we will be accepting oral 6



### arguments on all aspects of our proposal, and we 7


### will prepare a written transcript of the hearing. 8


### The transcript will be available as part of the 9



### official record for this rul e, and we will place 10


### it in the regulatory docket. We are also 11


### accepting written comments on the Proposed Rule 12


### until August 29th of this year. 13


### At the registration area outside, located 14


### in the lobby, there are handouts with detailed 15


### information outlining h ow to submit written 16


### comments by mail, fax, or electronically. EPA 17


### will consider your comments as we move forward to 18


### complete a Final Rule. 19


### Written statements and supporting 20


### information submitted during the comment period 21



### will be considered with the same weight as any 229

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### oral comments and supporting information 1


### presented at today's hearing. 2



### So let me take a moment to describe the 3


### logistics for today's hearing. I will call the 4


### scheduled speakers to this table in pairs. When 5


### it is your turn to speak, please state your name 6


### and your affiliation before you begin your 7


### testimony. It would help our court reporter, as 8


### well, if you would please spell out your name. 9


### In order to be fair to everyone, I will 10


### limit your testimony to 5 minutes and ask that 11



### both people remain at the table until both 12


### speakers in the pair have finished. After you 13


### finish your testimony, members of this panel may 14


### ask clarifying questions. 15


### If you would like to provide us a copy of 16


### your testimony, you can give a copy to the 17


### registration desk out in the lobby, or we 18



### recommend that you follow the procedures above 19


### for submitting documents to the regulatory 20



### docket. 21


### I have a timekeeping device here on this 2210

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### table, which will show you green, yellow, and red 1


### lights to help you keep track of your tim e as you 2


### speak. When you begin to speak, the green light 3


### will come on. When you have 1 minute left, it 4


### will turn yellow, and when the light is red, your 5


### 5 minutes will pass. And I will ask that you 6


### please complete your testimony. 7


### Today's hearing is sch eduled to last 8


### until 8 p.m. tonight or later, if necessary, 9


### should we have additional speakers show up. The 10


### hearing will go on recess for a lunch break from 11


### 12 p.m. until 1 p.m. and a dinner break from 5 12


### p.m. until 6 p.m. We will reconvene promptly at 13



### 1 p.m. and 6 p.m., respectively. 14


### If you would like to testify but have not 15


### registered to do so, please sign up at the 16


### registration table in the lobby outside of this 17


### room. For those who have already registered to 18


### speak, we have tried to accommodate your re quest 19


### for a specific time slot. I will ask your 20


### patience as we proceed through the list of 21



### speakers, and we may need to make some 2211

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### adjustments as the day progresses. 1


### Also, I would like to point out, if 2


### needed, we also have some Spanish

- speaking 3


### interprete rs with us today. So please let us 4


### know if you need their services. 5


### If any questions arise throughout the 6



### day, please feel free to ask any of the staff 7


### members at the registration table in the lobby 8



### for assistance. 9


### Again, thank you for coming, and I wou ld 10


### like to go ahead and get started by calling the 11


### first of our speakers. So, as this time, I would 12



### like to ask Mr. David Friedman and Mr. Howard 13


### Feldman if they would please come together to the 14



### speakers table. 15


### MR. FRIEDMAN: Good morning. 16



### MS. LASSITER : Good morning. 17


### MR. FRIEDMAN: My name is David Friedman, 18



### F

- r

- i

- e

- d

- m

- a

- n. I am Vice President of 19


### Regulatory Affairs, American Fuel and 20



### Petrochemical Manufacturers. 21


### AFPM appreciates the opportunity today to 2212

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### discuss our views on the EPA's Proposed Refin ery 1


### Risk and Technology, or RTR rule. The AFPM is a 2



### national trade association of more than 400 3


### companies, including virtually all U.S. refiners 4


### and petrochemical manufacturers. Our members 5


### operate 122 U.S. refineries, comprising 6


### approximately 98 percent of the U.S. refining 7


### capacity. 8


### Air quality has improved significantly in 9



### the U.S. over the past three decades, and our 10


### industry has been a significant contributor to 11


### this improvement. Since 1990, our industry has 12


### invested $137 billion to reduce emission s from 13



### our plants and make cleaner fuels. 14



### On the air toxic side, we have also made 15


### great strides in reducing emissions. Total 16


### hazardous air pollutants, or HAPs, from the 17


### refining sector have been reduced by nearly 18



### two

- thirds since 1990, while fugitive HA Ps have 19


### been reduced by 79 percent, and point source HAP 20


### emissions have been reduced by nearly 40 percent. 21


### Despite these significant reductions, EPA 2213

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### is proposing some requirements in this rule that 1


### simply are not justified by the level of refinery 2



### risk th at the agency found in its analysis. EPA 3


### in its previous RTR rulemaking in 2008 determined 4


### that the risks posted to the refining industry to 5


### be acceptable, and therefore, no further actions 6


### were required. Although signed by the EPA 7



### Administrator, due to a change in the 8


### administration that rule was never published in 9


### the Federal Register and was subsequently 10



### withdrawn. 11



### After EPA conducted a massive and 12


### unprecedented industry data collection effort 13


### from refiners in 2011, the risk levels found by 14



### EPA in its most recent analysis performed for 15



### this rule are similar to those found in 2008, 16


### still within an acceptable range. One quarter of 17



### the refineries had maximum individual risk levels 18



### below 1 in a million, and two

- thirds had risk 19



### levels below 10 in a million

. 20


### Just to give a perspective on risk 21


### levels, the odds of being hit by lightning in a 2214

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### given year at 1:960,000. According to the 1


### National Safety Council, the odds of dying in a 2


### passenger car in a single hear are 1:21,132, and 3


### the odds of dying in a pedestr ian accident in a 4



### lifetime are 1:623. 5


### Unfortunately, we are faced with the 6


### rule's significant cost but with little or no 7



### health or environmental benefits. EPA estimates 8


### that this rule will cost $240 million, but our 9



### members estimate that it will cost in excess of a 10



### billion dollars. 11


### Of even greater concern is that the 12


### health benefit gains are insignificant by any 13


### measure, meaning this rule will have financial 14


### impact to the economy with essential no 15



### measurable benefits. 16


### Every refinery will be required to 17



### install fence

- line monitors at significant 18


### ongoing costs. Yet, as I mentioned earlier, many 19


### of those refineries have very low levels of risk. 20


### We don't understand how imposing a 21



### one

- size

- fits

- all approach to every refinery will 2215

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### improve public health, par ticularly when 1


### according to EPA analysis, a number of these 2


### refineries pose no health risk to the surrounding 3



### communities. 4


### The EPA rule proposes a rolling annual 5


### average benzene concentration action level of 2.8 6


### parts per billion at the refinery fence lin e. 7


### That will be measured every 2 weeks from 20 to 30 8


### samples collected around the refinery fence

- line 9


### perimeter. Exceeding this threshold would 10


### trigger a root

- cause analysis and corrective 11


### action and could be deemed a violation by EPA. 12



### However, the thre shold value is not an indicator 13


### of risk. The stated purpose of this monitoring 14


### is to check EPA's modeling of fugitive emissions. 15


### We fail to see how this can achieve this goal. 16



### Further, EPA's own studies in the 17



### mid

- 1990s confirmed no effect on personal 18



### e xposure of living close to major fixed sources 19


### of benzene, including oil refineries, chemical 20



### plants, and storage plants. 21



### We also have concerns with the flaring 2216

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### provisions in this rule. The recently adopted 1



### NSPS Ja flare rules resulted in instrumentation 2



### costs to the order of millions of dollars per 3


### flare and will result in significant overall 4


### reductions in already very limited flaring 5



### emissions. 6


### This proposal would require significant 7



### additional costs over and above those from the Ja 8



### rule and yet has fe w synergies with the earlier 9


### Ja investments and results in very little 10



### incremental benefit. 11


### Any proposed flare combustion efficiency 12



### standards should (1) only address steam

- assisted 13


### flares, (2) focus on oversteaming
, and (3) limit 14



### the need for the wastefu l addition of natural gas 15



### to the flares. 16



### Pressure relief valves, or PRVs, are 17


### designed to protect plant personnel, the public
, 18


### and equipment, and EPA should not change the MACT 19


### floor work practice for PRVs. 20


### PRVs relieve very infrequently and for 21



### short periods of time with very little total HAP 2217

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### emissions. While monitoring such releases to 1



### ensure that PRVs have properly closed makes sense 2


### and most companies already do so, prohibiting 3


### atmospheric releases will require routing PRVs to 4



### additional new flare s. This will require massive 5



### investments
, both for these new flares and for 6



### flare headers to control releases of rare events. 7


### EPA has greatly overstated the risks that 8


### coking units pose, and the proposed 9


### depressurization requirements go well beyond the 10



### n ew requirements set by the recently promulgated 11


### refinery NSPS rule. EPA has greatly 12


### underestimated the costs of controlling these 13


### emissions, controls that result in virtually no 14



### benefit. 15


### One final note regarding process. EPA 16



### has reached a settlement ag reement earlier this 17


### year that requires the rule to be complete d 11 18



### months after the rule was completed in May. This 19


### simply does not allow enough time for everyone to 20


### properly review risk information and for EPA to 21



### finalize a rule that is defensible. 2218

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### In 2007 and '8 , EPA needed more than 18 1


### months to complete the refinery RTR rule once it 2



### was proposed. Developing a good rule that 3


### properly determines risk and addresses solutions 4


### to lower that risk is more important than meeting 5



### an artificial deadline. 6



### We hope that the Agency and the 7


### plaintiffs will reconsider the tight time frame 8


### and suggest that the rule be finalized at a later 9



### date in 2015. This will make for a better result 10



### for everyone. 11


### Thank you again for this opportunity to 12



### speak, and I am happy t o answer any questions. 13


### MS. LASSITER: Thank you, David. 14


### Panel, do you have any clarifying 15


### questions? 16


### [No audible response.] 17



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, t hank you. 18



### Howard? 19


### MR. FELDMAN: Good morning. 20


### MS. LASSITER: Good morning. 21


### MR. FELDMAN: My name is H oward Feldman, 2219

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### and I am speaking on behalf of the American 1



### Petroleum Institute. 2


### API represents over 600 oil and natural 3


### gas companies, leaders of a technology

- driven 4


### industry that supplies most of America’s energy, 5


### supports more than 9.8 million jobs and 8 percent 6



### of the U.S. economy and, since 2000, has invested 7


### nearly $2 trillion in U.S. capital projects to 8


### advance all forms of energy, including 9



### a lternatives. 10



### Our members are dedicated to continuous 11


### efforts to improve the compatibility of our 12


### operati ons with the environment and the 13



### communities
, while economically developing energy 14


### resources and supplying high

- quality products 15



### and services to our consumers. We recognize our 16


### responsibility to work with the public, with the 17



### government, and others to develop and use natural 18



### resources in an environmentally sound manner
, 19


### while protecting the health and safety of our 20


### employees and the public. Many of our members 21


### will be directly impacted by the proposed 2220

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### Refinery Sector Rule
, which is the focus of 1


### today’s public hearing. 2


### I have three key points I'd like to make 3


### today. One, air quality in the United States has 4


### improved significantly, continues to improve, and 5


### our industry is doing its part to contribute to 6


### that success. Two, after significant effort, the 7



### U.S. E PA has concluded in this rulemaking that 8


### the public is protected with an ample margin of 9


### safety. Three, the safe operation of our 10


### refineries to protect our workers and the 11


### community is our number

- one priority. 12


### My first point is that air quality has 13


### impr oved significantly, continues to improve, and 14


### our industry is contributing to these 15



### i mprovements. According to the EPA Report on the 16



### Environment, mean benzene concentrations have 17



### dropped by 66 percent from 1994 to 2009 18



### n ationwide. 19



### L ocally, the improveme nt has been even 20



### more dramatic. California Air Resources Board 21



### data show that from 1990 to 2012, right here in 2221

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### North Long Beach, mean benzene concentrations 1



### have dropped by 89 percent. And the U.S. oil and 2


### gas industry has been a key part of that 3


### improve ment, investing over $268 billion since 4



### 1990 toward s improving the environmental 5


### performance of its products, facilities
, and 6


### operations. In the year 2012 alone, approximately 7


### $ 15 billion was expended on environmental 8


### protection. 9


### My second key point is th at the EPA has 10


### concluded in this rulemaking that the public is 11


### protected with an ample margin of safety from 12


### refinery emissions. Once again, the EPA has 13



### reached this conclusion, this time after 14


### developing an entirely new protocol for 15


### refineries to report their emissions and a 16



### multimillion

- dollar information collection 17


### campaign, including data collection from every 18


### refinery for all emission sources and direct 19



### emission s testing for a number of emission 20



### sources. All of this information is then 21



### processed thro ugh conservative risk modeling
, 2222

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### which has determined that communities around 1



### refineries are protected with an ample margin of 2


### safety from refinery emissions. 3



### While this is going to be my final point 4


### today, it goes without saying that the safe 5


### operation of our refineries to protect our 6


### workers and the community is our number

- one 7


### priority. A s such, API will be taking a close 8



### look to ensure these proposed regulations don’t 9


### compromise the safety of our workers and 10


### community. 11


### For example, in this rule, EPA ha s 12


### proposed requirements prohibiting the use of 13


### equipment whose sole purpose is to prevent 14



### over

- pressuring of equipment and avoid potential 15


### catastrophic damage. This prohibition will not 16


### only increase safety risk but will require many 17



### additional flares. O bviously, this part of the 18


### proposal needs to be revised from a safety 19



### p erspective. Our written comments will address 20


### this provision in greater detail, as well as 21



### other parts of the proposal. 2223

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### In closing, API appreciates the 1


### opportunity to provide testimon y on this 2


### important rulemaking for our industry. I'd like 3


### to reiterate that air quality in the U.S. has 4


### significantly improved, continues to improve, and 5


### our industry is doing its part to contribute to 6


### that success. After significant effort, the EPA 7



### has concluded that the public is protected with 8


### an ample margin of safety from refinery 9


### emissions, and that, third, the safe operation of 10


### our refineries to protect our workers and the 11


### community is our number

- one priority. 12



### We will be submitted detailed comment s to 13


### the docket to ensure that the final regulation 14


### doesn't inhibit the safe operation of our 15


### refineries, doesn't increase emissions from any 16



### sources, and is cost effective. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 19



### [Pause.] 20



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 21


### I would now like to call Mr. Michael Wang 2224

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### and Mr. David Campbell. If you would both 1



### proceed to the speakers table. 2



### Mr. Wang? 3


### MR. WANG: Good morning. My name is 4


### Michael Wang, W

- a

- n

- g, and I am Director of 5


### Legal, California Climate Policy, and the area 6



### issues for the Western States Petroleum 7



### Association. 8


### WSPA is a trade group representing 27 9


### companies that explore for, develop, refine, 10



### market, and transport petroleum and petroleum 11


### products and natural gas in Washington, Oregon, 12



### California, Nevada, and Arizona. 13


### Refineries in Washington and California 14


### will be affected by these rules. We should note 15


### at the outset that you have just heard from API, 16



### the American Petroleum Institute, and the 17



### American Fuels & Petrochemical Manufacturers. We 18


### support their te stimony and their statements. 19


### In order to avoid duplication, WSPA will 20


### cover areas of particular focus to the West. We 21


### will be providing formal written comments to more 2225

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### fully address the many technical details 1


### associated with the proposed rulemaking. 2



### I would first like to comment on the 3


### overall context of the proposed action. EPA 4


### notes that when fully implemented, the rule will 5


### reduce 5,600 tons per year of toxic air 6



### pollutants and 52,000 tons per year of ELC. Such 7



### reductions, when cost effective, are certainly 8


### something that should be considered, but we note, 9



### as EPA knows, that the conventional metrics are 10



### tons per day. 11


### Using the tons

- per

- day metric, that 12


### suggests that TAC, toxic air contaminants, would 13


### be reduced about 15 tons per day nationwide. 14



### Us ing the tons

- per

- day metric used by EPA and 15


### local agencies, the amount of ELC would be 142 16


### tons per day. While these reductions are 17



### nationwide, some localities will see much lower 18


### reductions, some may see more reductions, some 19


### may see no reductions at all , depending on the 20


### status of their local programs. 21


### However, and this brings us to our first 2226

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### point, one wonders about the need or focus for 1



### the program that would reduce 15 tons per day 2


### nationally of toxic air contaminants and likely 3



### cost hundreds of milli ons of dollars. We also 4



### wonder why VOC is included in the analysis, VOC 5


### compounds that are not considered HAPs, NESHAPs, 6


### or hazardous air pollutants, should be addressed 7



### within the context of ozone and PM

- 10 analyses 8



### rather than NESHAPs. 9



### Even EPA's antic ipated reductions in CO 2 10


### equivalent gases may be unreasonably optimistic 11


### given the current GHG reduction efforts underway 12


### in many parts of the region, including California 13



### under AB32. 14


### That brings me to my second point. The 15



### cost effectiveness of the NESHA P's proposal must 16


### be adjusted to reflect current local programs 17


### that address the same pollutant but perhaps in 18


### different ways. 19


### For example, consider the flare 20


### efficiency requirements. Most refineries in 21


### California, including those in Wilmington, 2227

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### already are under regulations to minimize or 1



### monitor flare utilization. Flare use has been 2


### minimized by the regulation since the early 3



### 2000s. As a result, flare use and flare 4


### emissions have already been documented and 5



### reduced. At the very least, then EPA's 6



### cost

- effectiveness analysis needs to be adjusted 7


### to reflect these improvements. In other words, 8



### the cost

- effective calculations used by EPA are 9



### most probably too low on a dollar

- per

- ton basis, 10



### because many of the tons have already been 11


### reduced. Again, this i s probably also true of 12



### VOC emissions and for GHG emissions, as well. 13


### This brings us to the third point. If 14


### some of the emissions have been reduced, as they 15


### have, and the emissions are very low, as they 16


### are, due to current and previous control efforts, 17



### a nd extensive costs are already committed, then 18



### we need to consider whether and to what extent 19


### additional controls are needed, as proposed. 20


### Certainly, in some regions

-- this is 21



### California, but others, as well

-- state 2228

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### regulations long ago went beyond EPA actions. 1



### EPA should be aware that the AB2 5 88 process in 2


### California, for example, reduced toxic emissions 3


### and risk, such that most refineries posted risks 4


### that are already less than 10, certainly less 5



### than 25 in a million. 6



### We note, for example, that EPA' s target 7


### for residual risk, after implementation of all 8



### these controls, is 10 in a million for 1 9


### pollutant and 25 in a million for all toxic air 10



### contaminants. How should refineries address the 11


### EPA proposal if they have already achieved target 12



### levels? 13



### We will discuss these issues in more 14


### detail and provide additional comments on 15


### specific source category controls as part of our 16


### written comments. Thank you. 17



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 18


### Do you have any questions? 19



### MS. SHINE: Yeah, I do. Let me turn the 20



### mic. 21



### David [sic] , you said that our levels 2229

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### presumptive are 10 in a million and 25 in a 1


### million, and I'm not sure from what you're 2


### referencing. 3


### MR. WANG: I was actually kind of 4



### confused at that, but I looked at the brief 5


### overview that you published as part o f the public 6


### outreach, and it says that that's

-- I seem to 7


### think that's what it says. I'll go back and 8


### check, but I think you should go back and look at 9


### these briefing documents, as well, because that's 10


### where I got it from. 11



### MS. LASSITER: I also have a clarifying 12


### question, Mr. Wang. 13



### MR. WANG: Sure. 14



### MS. LASSITER: You made a statement a 15


### couple of minutes into your testimony about a 16


### relationship with greenhouse gases, and I'm not 17


### sure if I caught all of that or if I understood 18


### the point that you were ma king. 19


### MR. WANG: Well, I noticed again in part 20


### of the briefing documents and part of the 21



### documents that I read that there was a reference 2230

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### to greenhouse gases, and I just thought that that 1


### was probably not something that we wanted to use 2


### in part of the cos t

- effectiveness analysis. And 3


### I thought it was kind of strange that it was in 4


### the substantiating documentation. 5


### Again, it might have been something that 6


### might have been ancillary to the EPA briefing 7


### document, but I just wanted to raise it. 8



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 9


### All right, at this time, I would like to 10


### ask Mr. Campbell if he would make his 11


### presentation. 12


### MR. CAMPBELL: My name is David Campbell, 13



### C

- a

- m

- p

- b

- e

- l

- l, and I am here on behalf of the 14


### United Steelworkers, or USW, which represents 15



### most o il company proprietary employees in the 16


### United States. I am the Secretary

- Treasurer for 17


### the USW Local 675, which represents refinery 18



### workers here in Southern California. 19


### The USW is supporting the proposed EPA 20


### refinery and emissions control rule. The uni on 21


### sees this as a benefit to not only our members 2231

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### who work inside the facilities but also to our 1



### friends and families who work and live outside 2


### the fence line. Many refiners are already 3


### following some proposed pieces of the rule 4



### through EPA consent decree s, and the 5


### implementation of the rule would help level the 6


### playing field. 7


### The USW supported inclusion of 8


### atmospheric storage tanks in the Process Safety 9



### Management, or PSM standard, under the 10


### President's Executive Order 13650, Request for 11



### Information, or FI. The regulations for 12


### atmospheric tanks in this rule are a good fit for 13


### alignment of process safety management and risk 14



### management program rules. 15


### Better combustion of flares would greatly 16


### reduce the amount of pollution that goes into the 17



### communities. Many facilities already have 18


### continuous pilots of automated steam controllers, 19


### which help improve combustion. 20


### This rule would require every site to 21


### comply with the same combustion rules, thereby 2232

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### leveling the playing field on cost of new flare 1


### tips, combu stion controls, and continuous pilots. 2


### Weighing the allowable process pressure 3


### on coking units when going to the flare would 4



### reduce the amount of pollutants put out through 5


### the flare system and increase the amount of 6



### marketable hydrocarbons covered

-- cap tured. 7


### While the pressure of 12 to 15 pounds per square 8



### inch does not sound like much, a coke drum is a 9


### fairly large vessel, and it becomes an issue of 10


### volume. Reducing that depressing value from 12 11


### to 15 pounds per square inch to 2 pounds per 12


### square inc h will lower emissions that go out on 13



### an 8

- to

- 12

- hour cycle per drum. With only two 14


### drums, that is a reduction of four flaring events 15


### a day. This will benefit the overall flare 16



### emissions reduction. 17



### Benzene is a new carcinogen, and all 18



### efforts to reduce exposure are greatly 19


### appreciated, but at the same time, we don't want 20


### to be just moving the exposed area. Workers in 21


### the facility that are exposed or have a history 2233

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### of benzene exposure are monitored. P eople living 1


### outside the fence line and may be expose d are not 2


### monitored because the potential for exposure is 3


### not known. By tracking chemicals that are being 4


### released inside the refinery and then traveling 5


### outside, we can get a better picture of just what 6


### the hazards may be and the precautions that 7



### should be taken to reduce that level of exposure. 8


### Making that information available to the 9


### public will also enable them to monitor the air 10


### in their own neighborhoods and hopefully enable 11


### them to take precautions when necessary. 12


### The loss of flaring exemption for 13


### startup, shutdowns, and upset conditions should 14


### drive a better maintenance program for the 15


### refineries. An improved mechanical integrity 16


### program can work to reduce breakdown conditions 17


### and reduce upset flaring. 18



### Also, controlled shutdown is easier to 19



### con trol by displacing products through the 20



### processes as opposed to de

- pressuring product out 21



### through the flare. 2234

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### There may have to be some equipment 1


### modifications made to equipment operability, as 2


### most refineries, unlike an airplane, were not 3


### designed to star t up or take off or to shut down 4


### or land. Airplanes have been designed with flaps 5


### to assist on takeoffs and landing, whereby 6


### refineries usually have no flaps, and their 7



### startups and shutdowns are not very smooth. 8


### Refineries are for the most part designed 9


### to fly to optimum altitude and speed, with little 10



### controls on

-- or fuel controls on takeoff and 11


### landings. Better controlled mechanisms on the 12



### startup process can lead to a much smoother 13


### startup than currently exists and thereby less 14


### flaring. 15



### These prop osals in concert with each 16



### other would reduce exposures not only to workers 17


### but certainly to the community and improve the 18



### overall environment. The USW is in favor of the 19


### EPA rule proposal. It is not cost prohibitive, 20


### and it is necessary. Without mandat ory 21


### requirements, refineries will not voluntarily 2235

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### curb any emissions but will use easily obtained 1


### exemptions to address every exceedance. That 2


### will not produce better maintenance programs or 3



### better technology for startup. 4



### We also note that the EPA has de termined 5


### implementing the proposed rules will have no 6


### noticeable effect on the price of produced 7



### petroleum products. 8



### Thank you. 9



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you, Mr. Campbell. 10


### Any questions? 11


### [No audible response.] 12



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you both. 13



### Next, I'd lik e to call Ms. Sofia Carrillo 14


### and Ms. Marbella Carrillo. If you would come to 15



### the speakers table, please. 16


### ATTENDEE: Sofia stepped out for a 17



### minute. 18


### MS. LASSITER: Okay, all right. Thank 19



### you. 20


### Well, in that case, I will move along the 21



### list, and then I w ill come back. So I'd like to 2236

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### ask if Mr. Flavio Mercado and Ms. Tamanna Rahman 1



### would please come to the table. 2


### Okay, thank you. So, if you would, 3


### please state your name and your affiliation. 4



### Thank you. 5


### MS. RAHMAN: Certainly. My name is 6



### Tamanna Rahma n. T

- a

- m

- a

- n

- n

- a. Last name, 7



### R

- a

- h

- m

- a

- n. And today, I am speaking as a 8


### volunteer with the American Lung Association. 9


### A little background, I am a Ph.D. student 10



### at the School of Public Health at UCLA in the 11


### Department of Environmental Health Sciences, and 12


### my past professional and academic experience has 13


### been in the area of ambient air pollution and its 14


### public health related impacts. My current 15


### doctoral research considers how climate change 16


### will exacerbate air quality

- related health 17


### impacts in the Great er Los Angeles area and how 18


### certain populations are more vulnerable and how 19


### to build the resilience among these populations 20


### that are already disproportionately burdened. 21


### Today, I am presenting an overview of the 2237

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### comments from the nationwide Lung Associati on, 1



### which will submit more detailed comments in 2


### writing. 3


### First of all, the Lung Association 4


### appreciates the opportunity to testify today in 5


### support of strong standards to limit toxic air 6


### emissions from the petroleum refineries. The 7



### emissions from the 149 petroleum refineries in 32 8


### states pose serious, recognized harm to millions 9



### of Americans who live near them and millions more 10



### who live where the emissions blow downwind. 11



### EPA has calculated that each year, these 12


### refineries produce 20,000 tons of emissions that 13


### are recognized as hazardous, including benzene 14


### and other carcinogens, hydrogen fluoride and 15


### other acid gases, and other persistent pollutants 16



### such as mercury. The EPA’s published risk review 17


### shows that at least 5.2 million people are 18



### exposed to leve ls of carcinogens from th e se 19


### refineries that places them at recognized risk of 20



### cancer. Among that group, fully half are from 21


### minority groups and one

- quarter of those exposed 2238

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### are under the a ge of 17. 1


### Children face unique risks from breathing 2


### polluted air. Children are born with only about 3



### 20 percent of the lungs that they will have as 4



### adults, and t he vast majority of their tiny lungs 5


### will develop after they are born, all the while 6


### they are learning to sit up, to walk, to kick a 7



### ball, to ride a bike, and j ust conducting 8



### day

- to

- day activities. So c hildren are more 9



### active than adults and tend to be outdoors more. 10


### Their lungs will grow until they become 11



### adolescents, and t he air they breathe during that 12


### period will shape how their lungs function for 13



### the rest of their lives. 14


### Toxic substances may put children more at 15



### risk than adults. For example, the Cal EPA 16


### explored improved methodologies to determine 17


### susceptibility to carcinogens in utero and 18



### c hildhood after finding in 2001 that the existing 19


### approaches did not adequately reflect the risks 20



### to children. Their subsequent research found 21


### that the children generally display greater 2239

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### s ensitivity to environmental carcinogens than 1



### a dults. They recommended a more protective 2


### adjustment to risk assessment s to reflect that 3


### greater risk. 4


### The published risk review estimated that 5


### millions of the people exposed to carcinogenic 6


### refinery emissions are those whose income, 7



### education
, or language makes them likely to be at 8


### greater risk of harm. One in five had incomes 9



### below t he poverty line, and on e in four adults 10


### lacked a high school diploma. One in 10 had no 11


### one in the household over age 14 who spoke 12


### English. 13


### People most at risk of harm from 14



### b reathing these air pollutants depend on the EPA 15



### to take action to clean up air p ollution from 16



### refineries. In addition to the groups I ha ve 17


### mentioned already, peop le at risk include older 18



### adults, pregnant women, people with asthma and 19


### other lung diseases, those with cardiovascular 20



### disease, diabetics, and even healthy adults who 21



### work o r exercise outdoors. We urge EPA to 2240

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### examine and use the most current research on 1



### t hese and other cumulative impacts for children 2



### and adults in setting the standards and 3



### d eveloping the ample margin of safety. The EPA 4



### should recognize that many communities are 5



### d ownwind from more than one source, so EPA 6


### should factor in multiple exposures into the 7



### standards. 8


### The Lung Association supports the EPA’s 9


### plan to strengthen requirements for refineries to 10


### control the emissions of these toxic pollutants. 11



### Stronger r equirements will significantly reduce 12


### emissions from storage tanks and other components 13


### of the refineries that today threaten millions of 14



### people. 15


### The Lung Association is pleased that for 16



### the first time, the EPA has added requirements 17



### for monitoring refine ry emissions at the fence 18



### l ine to provide greater assurance that the 19


### facility is meeting the emission limits. 20


### Accurate measurements of the emissions coming 21


### from the facility are essential to ensuring that 2241

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### the r efinery’s neighbors actually receive the 1



### prot ections they are promised. That is why we 2


### urge EPA to strengthen the monitoring 3



### r equirements. These data need to be reported in 4



### real time and made publically available as with 5


### other air pollution monitoring. Waiting 6


### passively for the companies to decide when to 7


### report problems is not acceptable and will not 8


### protect public health. 9


### The Lung Association is pleased that the 10


### EPA has eliminated exemptions for emission limits 11


### during periods of start

- up and shutdown and 12



### m alfunction at each facility. EPA has fi nally 13


### recognized that these exemptions have created 14



### regulatory loopholes that have historically 15


### undermined the protections that the Clean Air Act 16


### intended the public to have. 17


### The Lung Association also supports steps 18


### to reduce the use of flaring. EPA shou ld ban 19


### routine flaring and tightly limit other use of 20


### emergency flaring. This all

- too

- routine burning 21


### of oil and gas wastes valuable fuel and adds air 2242

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### pollutants. EPA should require monitoring and 1


### reporting of these flaring emissions to the 2


### public, as we ll. 3



### So, e ven with the proposed improvements, 4



### EPA should consider the needs to adopt standards 5


### that provide greater protection, including 6


### protection from the risks of accidents. The 7



### EPA’s own assessment estimates that even when the 8


### refineries meet the pro posed standards, only 9



### about 18 percent more people will be protected, 10


### leaving nearly 4 million people breathing air 11


### that gives them an unacceptable risk of cancer. 12


### As the Lung Association will discuss 13



### in their formal comments, cancer is far from the 14



### only health risk that many will continue to face. 15


### So thank you for the opportunity

. 16



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 17


### Questions? 18


### [No audible response.] 19


### MS. LASSITER: All right, thank you. 20



### Mr. Mercado? 21


### MR. MERCADO: Okay. So my name is Flavio 2243

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### Mercado. That's F

- l

- a

- v

- i

- o. Last name is 1



### M

- e

- r

- c

- a

- d

- o, and I work for Coalition for a 2


### Safe Environment, and I am also a Wilmington 3


### resident. I lived in Wilmington almost all my 4


### life, and I graduated from Cal State

- Long Beach 5


### in Geography and GIS Mapping. 6



### And what I ha ve learned in these few 7


### years that I have lived, I notice that a lot of 8


### people are visual learners. So what I have here 9


### today is particulate matter. So anybody who 10


### would like to see particulate matter, it ranges 11



### from 1.25 all the way to 10. It ranges, t his 12


### particular matter here. It was captured from 13


### Ruben Garcia technology. That is the AMEC's 14


### technology, and we have particulate matter here. 15


### And another simple solution in which I 16


### came about in the fourth grade was back at Gulf 17


### Elementary School, I did a report where I took 18


### three jars, and I put Vaseline on those three 19


### jars. I put one inside my home, one outside, and 20


### one as a control. And the jar that was outside, 21


### I was able to capture particulate matter from the 2244

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### refineries, so I know that the refiner ies release 1


### a lot of particulate matter. And I was just in 2


### fourth grade when I did that report. 3



### And I also wanted to talk about how the 4



### fence

- line monitoring should be enhanced. We 5


### need to provide a webcam feature that we could 6



### actual monitor the refine ries real time, just 7


### like Caltrans does. If Caltrans can put webcams, 8


### so we could see how the traffic is flowing, why 9



### can't we do the same for the refineries, so we 10


### can monitor the refinery flare? We could 11


### calculate the dimensions of the flare by 12



### calcula ting the smokestack dimensions. If we use 13



### those smokestack dimensions, we could calculate 14



### the flare events, and we'll have the date, we'll 15



### have the time, all in real time, which could be 16


### accessible through a website. 17



### And I think we need that because a lo t of 18


### people put excuses that there is no flaring 19



### events, and once we have a visual, a visual 20


### representation of what's going on in the 21



### refineries, there won't be no more excuses about 2245

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### that. 1


### If I see flaring here in my community at 2


### midnight, two in the morn ing when it's raining, 3


### when it's cloudy

-- so if we have the capability 4


### of bringing webcam monitors on the fence line, we 5



### could show that, and there will be no more 6


### excuses from the petroleum industry. 7



### I also want to talk about how I know a 8



### lot of people in my community who have died from 9


### cancer, and I just really want to do something in 10


### my community where I could step up and make 11


### something out of it. And I know that my skills 12


### of GIS could be of great use, so I am willing to 13


### offer my service to EPA and ev eryone out there 14



### free of charge, so there won't be no excuses of 15


### why we can't do something about it. 16


### I have put my contact information down on 17


### the comments, and if anybody would like to 18


### contact me, my information is out there free of 19


### charge and my service

. 20



### So all I say, thank you very much, and I 21


### have the jar here if anybody would like to take a 2246

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### look at it. But thank you very much. Is there 1


### any questions? 2



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 3


### Any questions? 4


### [No audible response.] 5



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you

. 6


### Okay. Next, I'd like to call Ms. Sofia 7


### Carrillo and Ms. Marbella Carrillo, please. If 8



### you would both proceed to the speakers table. 9


### [Mayra Carrillo interprets the following 10



### remarks for Sofia and Marbella Carrillo.] 11



### MS. (Sofia) CARRILLO: Good mornin g. I 12


### am Sofia Carrillo. I am a community organizer 13


### here in the community of Wilmington. 14


### I am here to support the new regulations 15


### for the safety of the environment. I know we 16


### have new regulations, but for us, we have 15 17


### points, the most important for re gulations. 18


### I am not going to say them in Spanish. 19


### She already knows them, and she is going to read 20



### them. 21



### MS. (Mayra) CARRILLO: Number 1. 2247

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### Mandatory Flare Reduction Plan. 1



### Number 2. Mandatory use of Vapor 2


### Recovery Systems to eliminate and prevent 3



### fla ring. 4



### Number 3. Mandatory 24/7 real

- time 5



### fence

- line monitoring all of the chemicals 6


### released by oil refineries. 7



### Number 4. Mandatory real

- time online 8


### public website reporting of all daily air 9


### pollution and flaring events. 10



### Number 5. Mandatory emergency back

- up 11


### power to prevent flaring from power outages. 12


### Number 6. Mandatory Flare Combustion 13


### Efficiency Standards. 14


### Number 7. Mandatory Maintenance and 15



### Parts Replacement Plan to prevent breakdowns and 16



### malfunctions. 17


### Number 8. Mandatory Maximum Achievable 18


### Control Technology for all air pollution emission 19



### sources. 20



### Number 9. Mandatory phase

- out plan of 21


### dangerous and toxic chemicals that cause health 2248

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### and safety impacts. 1


### Number 10. Mandatory public health 2


### exposure limit on all toxic chemicals. 3



### Number 11. Mandatory health impact 4



### assessments for oil refineries in addition to 5



### health risk assessments. 6


### Number 12. No annual averaging of 7


### emissions data to hide high emissions releases on 8


### flaring days. 9


### Number 13. Eliminate all startups, 10



### shutdown, and malfuncti on emissions releases 11


### reporting exemptions. 12



### Number 14. A life

- time cancer risk no 13


### higher than 1 in 1 million for a single chemical 14



### or cumulative chemicals. 15



### Number 15. Request U.S. EPA sponsor 16


### public health studies of fence

- line communities 17



### to oil refin eries. 18



### MS. (Sofia) CARRILLO: Those are the 15 19


### points, the most important points for us. While 20


### I was sitting here thinking, when somebody 21


### commits a crime, they take them to court and give 2249

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### them a sentence. Why the refineries? In our 1


### community, a lot of people have died because of 2


### the emissions, and nothing has happened. 3


### I am going to give you an example. I am 4


### sick. I have a pulmonary fibrosis. I have never 5


### smoked in my life. I have chronic bronchitis. I 6


### don't have insurance. I don't have to pay fo r 7


### the consequences of others getting me sick. I 8


### have to go to Mexico to obtain hospital, 9



### medication, and a doctor. Just like me, there's 10



### thousands of residents that do that. 11


### I would like for every barrel of oil that 12


### is sold to report two or three dollar s for a 13


### trust, health trust for people like me, because 14


### there is a lot of people that don't have medical 15



### insurance. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 18


### Are there any questions? 19


### [No audible response.] 20


### MS. LASSITER: I have one question. I 21


### was trying to write down the 15 points here, and 2250

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### I did not get

-- 1



### MS. (Mayra) CARRILLO: We have a copy. 2



### MS. LASSITER: Oh, okay, great. Thank 3


### you. I didn't see that. Super, super. Thank 4



### you. 5


### Okay. Next, Ms. Marbella Carrillo. 6



### MS. (Marbella) CARRILLO: Good morning. 7



### I am Marbella Carrillo. I am a member of the 8


### community here in Wilmington. I am going to 9


### share my experience as a mother. 10


### I have a girl that has problems with her 11


### lungs. Nobody in my family smokes. When I took 12



### my daughter to the doctor, he a sked if anyone in 13


### the home smoked in the family, and nobody does. 14



### The doctors recommended not to expose her to the 15



### air. 16


### Many times, I had to take her to the 17


### emergency room, and the length of time for 18


### recuperation, it's about a month. 19



### Now I have to be ve ry careful when I go 20


### outside to take my family. Sometimes I have to 21



### leave her inside alone because I can't take her 2251

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### outside with the rest of the kids. 1



### I have a window at home, and there is a 2


### couch, and she just sits behind the couch looking 3


### at the kids p lay outside. 4



### Thank you. 5



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. Thank you 6



### both. 7


### Okay. Next, I'd like to have Ms. Evelyn 8


### Knight and, I believe it is, Mr. Shabaka Heru. 9



### If you would please come. Thank you. 10


### MR. KNIGHT: Good morning. My name is 11


### Evelyn Knight, and I live in West Long Beach in 12


### the site of the flares and the pollution and the 13



### many

-- this place. Over the years, I've lived 14


### in West Long Beach since 1968, and I am here to 15


### support the EPA's quality standards and really 16


### ongoing work to address the many ne eds of our 17


### community to protect it from the ongoing 18


### pollution scourge that has been in our community 19



### for years. 20


### My own family suffers from much asthma. 21


### I had a brother to die from lung cancer, who 2252

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### never smoked, and many people in my community, 1



### almost eve ry week, there are additional friends 2


### who have been walking around Hudson Park with me 3


### over the years, have come down with cancer in 4



### their bodies. 5


### While we appreciate the reduction, this 6


### reduction has gone as a result of the work by EPA 7


### and many other cit izens in our community as well 8


### as the environmental groups bringing to bear the 9


### effects of this ongoing attack on our bodies. 10



### There will never be a solution until the 11


### perpetrators of the pollutants in our community 12


### take full responsibility and have zero p ollution 13


### in our community. Our bodies, our lungs, it is 14


### no match for chemicals that are always being put 15


### there by people who put it there, and all of the 16


### people who put it there are responsible for 17


### making sure that it's not there, that it goes 18



### away, so we can live healthy, healthy qualities 19


### of life as human beings, which we were put on 20



### this Earth to do. So there is no excuse. 21


### We really want EPA to continue the work 2253

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### until there is never a need for that work to be 1


### done. We don't need these meetings. We should 2


### not even be here. If people were doing what they 3


### were supposed to be doing in protecting us, 4


### protecting the citizens, protecting the 5


### residents, protecting people's lives and 6


### breathing and body functions, there would not be 7


### a reason for this meeting . So I don't want to 8


### have to come to these meetings anymore. 9



### So I think that we should have the 10


### immediate regulations ongoing. The work of EPA 11


### is on the line. As long as

-- you know, the 12


### reductions are not enough. We have to stop. We 13



### have to utilize the kind of technology that 14


### ensures that we don't have the problem in the 15


### first place, and that's the only answer. 16


### I appreciate sharing this with you, and 17


### every time I come here, I'll say the same thing 18


### until the problem has gone away. 19



### And thank you very much. 20



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 21


### MR. HERU: Good morning. 2254

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### MS. LASSITER: Good morning. 1


### MR. HERU: My name is Shabaka Heru. I am 2


### the Executive Director of the Society for 3


### Positive Action. We are a part of the L.A. 4


### Environmental Justice Working Group. We meet 5


### every month along with the Coalition for a Safe 6


### Environment and other environmental working 7


### groups throughout the L.A. County Basin. 8


### We work from Riverside to the Valley. We 9



### work

-- I work particularly in a community 10


### benefits agreement with LAX. We just did a $5 11


### million study about the air quality in the Basin, 12



### the L.A. Basin. One of the outcomes of the air 13


### quality study was that from the beginning, as the 14


### starting point, the air quality in the L.A. Basin 15



### is the worst in the world. 16



### I also work on the L.A. Unified School 17


### District's Internal Pest Management. It is a 18


### working group where we survey and we examine and 19



### control all of the chemicals that are used to 20


### eliminate rodents, pests, and to clean up all of 21



### the schools in the L.A. Unified School System. 2255

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### First of all, I'd like to see a mandatory 1


### Maximum Achievable Control Technology for all air 2


### pollution and emission sources. I would also 3


### like to see a flare reduction plan. There are 4


### many things that haven't been done, and as the 5



### young lady nex t to me has said before, we had 6


### thought years ago that these things would have 7


### been worked out, that these would be things that 8



### the EPA, the AQMD, and all of the other 9


### regulatory agencies would have done with, would 10



### have had done with. 11


### One of the things a bout working with the 12


### airport that I found is that over the last 10 13


### years, we have had a monitor, control all of the 14


### construction on the new airport, and during that 15



### time, we have seen the evolution of the controls 16


### and the technologies used in vehicles aro und the 17


### airport. Those technologies are applicable, as 18



### well, to the ports. 19


### We would like to see no averaging, 20


### because the averagings hide the individual 21



### account and individual incidents that occur at 2256

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### the airport. I don't live here at the airport. 1



### I liv e in Gardena, between Gardena and Compton. 2


### We just had at a transfer station, a 40,000 3


### barrel container built for ethanol, and we just 4



### see this transfer station as an obstacle, as 5



### well. 6



### We would like to see real

- time fence

- line 7


### monitoring of all chemical releases by oil 8


### refineries. We'd like to see real online public 9



### -- a real online public website reporting all the 10


### daily air pollution and flaring events. 11



### Years ago, my colleague, Jesse Marquez, 12



### who is with the Coalition for a Safe Environment, 13



### and I wer e in Huntington Park at a meeting with 14



### Communities for a Safer Environment, and from 15


### Huntington Park, we could see a flaring incident. 16


### We left the meeting that we were involved in to 17


### get to that flaring incident. 18


### There was very little information. In 19



### f act, I was talking to Jesse just a moment ago 20


### about the incident. There was very little 21


### reporting through the news agencies, through the 2257

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### radio press, the TV press, about this flaring 1


### incident. It poses itself as a real hazard and a 2


### danger to our families

. 3



### We have children that have inflated 4


### incidence of asthma and respiratory problems. 5



### Our seniors are at risk because

-- I myself, the 6


### beginning of the year, I had a case of the flu 7



### that turned into pneumonia, that turned into a 8


### heart event. And so I'm ju st saying I thought I 9


### was perfectly healthy, but we all are at risk, 10



### and we all need to take care and be aware of 11


### what's coming and not just sit back and idle our 12


### time away. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. Thank you 15



### both. 16



### Next, I'd like to ask Mr. Jorge Madrid 17


### and Mr. Ricardo Pulido if you would please come 18



### to the table to speak. 19


### MR. PULIDO: Good morning. Buenos dias. 20


### My name is Ricardo Pulido. I am a Board Member 21



### for the Coalition for a Safe Environment, also a 2258

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Social Justice Vice President f or our church, St. 1


### Philomena. Father and grandfather. Here a local 2



### homeowner for the last 30 years and an 3



### environmentalist since mom told me back in the 4


### day when I was a kid that, "You have to protect 5



### and take care of Mother Earth, Ricardo. In 6


### everythin g and everything you do, you make sure 7


### you remember what I'm telling you now," and I 8


### said, "Why is that, Mom?" And she says because 9



### she came from New York, and when she came to 10



### California, she said, "This is the most 11



### beautiful

- est West Cost, you know, amb ience and 12


### state that we live in, and you must protect her." 13


### And so I live with that motto every day, and I 14


### believe sincerely with all my heart that all of 15



### us should do the same. 16



### And I think that's our intentions, 17


### although there's a few things that I woul d like 18


### to share with you now. I welcome all of my 19



### commissioners, EPA, and the residents here from 20


### the beautiful South Bay area. 21


### My concerns start off with, first, I 2259

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### appreciate that we are doing this meeting today 1


### and this hearing, if you will, and that w e are 2


### now opening up the doors, if you will, to the 3


### community to make sure that you hear our voice. 4


### First of all, I'd like to say we need 5


### stronger regulations for the flaring up at night. 6


### I believe the monitoring systems that are there 7



### should be put out there into the community 8


### through a database collection system and 9


### charting, so that we the residents can see either 10


### online, like my colleague said earlier, like a 11



### website or a hotline like we used to have back in 12


### the day. These were very functional, and t he 13



### refineries used to have a CAN Alert. I think 14


### they still might have that, but they are not 15


### utilizing them to their fullest potential, and I 16


### think that's where they have a warning system. 17


### They get it out to the periphery of a 1

- mile 18


### radius of any of the six local refineries that we 19


### have here in the South Bay. 20



### I believe that we need to have that 21


### system up and around with all of our technologies 2260

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### now. We should have that system working now 1


### through our websites and through our computers 2


### and our phone lines , if you will, for folks that 3



### aren't computer savvy. 4


### I also believe, and I would suggest, that 5



### we have documentation on the 24/7. You heard it 6


### earlier from some of my colleagues, a real

- time 7



### fence

- line monitoring system. We have a 8


### LACEENonline.org. Thi s mechanism right now gives 9


### a grassroots opportunity to the community to call 10


### in, just click in if they have a computer. We're 11


### working on the app, and eventually, we'll just 12


### have it so that they will be able to communicate. 13



### Our families and friends here in the 14


### South Bay area can call in and let us know when 15



### there is a flare

- up, there is an explosion, there 16



### is a chemical release of toxic fumes or whatnot. 17


### The LACEEN is a mechanism now being used as a 18


### demonstration project all over California through 19



### the D TSC agencies. 20



### I also believe that we need to tie 21


### together a comprehensive plan with the EPA 2261

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### overseeing the AQMD, DTSC, and ARB, and all of 1



### our non

- profits working together in building a 2


### finite plan, if you will, that we will be 3


### speaking to each other. We will share data. We 4


### will be able to give each agency information that 5


### is pertinent to what's going on and, of course, 6



### all this data is either in the libraries, the 7


### churches or displayed at our city halls on a 8


### monthly basis on the bulletin boards. 9



### I beli eve we are not giving enough public 10


### information and posting it properly, so we need 11



### to

-- the refineries specifically to start doing 12


### their good due diligence in putting this 13



### information out for our communities. 14


### I also would like to say

-- and Jesse, 15



### our E xecutive Director, will speak about this 16



### later

-- our HRAs and HIAs, the health risk 17


### assessments and health impact assessments, that 18


### that survey, that data collection procedure needs 19


### to be implemented throughout the United States of 20


### America and throughout here specifically in our 21


### region, the South Bay. 2262

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### These HRAs are the only way we're going 1



### to be able to detect and detract at a baseline 2



### where our children

-- as you heard, I have a 3


### child who has a neurological disease. I believe 4


### it is caused partly by the environment, by the 5



### air we breathe, and I believe all of our sinuses 6


### and problems and infections that we're getting, 7


### respiratory

- wise, are also caused by these 8


### refineries and the other polluters around here. 9



### I know we live in an industrial area, but 10



### we h ave a beautiful ocean, and we have a 11



### beautiful ambience around here. We need to 12


### protect it, and we need to build on that premise 13



### of the HRAs and HIAs. 14


### We can help you with that. At this time, 15


### I don't have enough time to explain how this 16



### could be done, b ut please contact Coalition for a 17


### Safe Environment, and we will be glad to give you 18


### our summation, about 30 or 40 pages, on how this 19


### could be implemented. 20


### Also, the Community Benefits Trust Fund 21


### for our children with the respiratory and 2263

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### diseases that are caused by the refineries, we 1



### believe this trust fund, which has been 2


### implemented and utilized here now in the South 3


### Bay as one of the model programs for the United 4



### States, should not only be mandatory by the 5


### refineries, but through the EPA's offices, make 6


### sure that you oversee that we are given funds for 7


### the clinics, for mobile units, so they can go out 8


### into the community here in Wilmington. 9



### I live in Carson, and we need to be 10


### showing our communities that there's hope out 11


### there. There's opportunity out th ere for when 12



### they don't have money. 13



### You heard the lady speak about health 14



### care. We need to make sure that those who are 15



### not covered are able to at least get some nurse 16



### or some doctor's intervention for their ailments. 17


### I also would like to say that we ne ed the 18



### -- the chemical pollution, the flaring up, the 19


### deadly explosions that we're witnessing here in 20


### the South Bay at times need to be

-- again, not 21



### to be redundant

-- have to be exposed, and they 2264

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### have to be, if you will, displayed at our city 1



### clerk's off ices, at our city halls, like I said 2



### earlier. 3


### And especially the chemical benzene, I 4



### think that is the one killer of all that is 5


### killing our families and our children, so we need 6


### to regulate and abate the benzene here in our 7


### community. 8



### Lastly, I want to say I reviewed some of 9


### the comments that were given here. I think the 10


### coker units that we stopped over here in San 11


### Pedro was a good start, but that is something 12



### that

-- that's a deadly element. You saw

-- 13


### Flavio showed you the particulate matters. That 14


### is what we are inhaling. We need to be very 15


### cognizant in not having any coker type of 16


### mountains or mounds sitting anywhere around the 17


### South Bay area or anywhere in our country, for 18



### that matter. 19



### Also, I would like to make sure that we 20



### -- the next page in the Federal Register, I read 21


### something that caught my eye. Additional

-- the 2265

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### fence

- line monitoring on page 36923 , those 1



### procedures, they're enacted and are talked about 2



### a lot, but let's make them happen now. Let's 3



### you, the Agency, be the caretakers for o ur 4


### community in making sure that this is going to be 5


### regulated and take heed to implement them now, 6



### real time. 7


### We can help you with that. We have 8


### bought some devices, some dust monitors and some 9


### air monitoring systems that we're putting on top 10



### of our co mmunity roofs, so we will show you our 11


### community monitoring data. And we're not 12


### scientists, but we are learning more and more 13



### that we have to be the protectors. We have to be 14


### the voice for our community and for our families. 15



### So God bless you. God bless our United 16



### States, and please make sure that we have 17


### stronger, stronger requirements for all our 18


### public health and all of our families. We need 19


### you. We need you to hear us, and we appreciate 20


### you being here today. I thank you for your work, 21



### and we look forward to working more stronger than 2266

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### ever with our agencies, specifically, U.S. EPA. 1



### Thank you very much. 2



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 3


### MS. SHINE: I did have one question. You 4


### mentioned that you had a plan about the health 5



### risk assessments and then

-- 6



### M R. PULIDO: Yes. 7


### MS. SHINE: And then I think what you're 8


### talking about is epidemiological studies, studies 9


### in the community, and you said you had a plan. 10



### MR. PULIDO: Yes, we do

-- 11


### MS. SHINE: Is that something that you 12



### could submit to the docket or su bmit to

-- 13



### MR. PULIDO: Yes, we do. 14


### I believe, Jesse, you may have that with 15



### you, Jesse, perhaps. 16


### If not, we could submit as a docket today 17


### before eight o'clock. Our office is down the 18



### street. We'll get you that. 19


### MS. SHINE: You can submit it anyti me up 20


### until August. 21



### MR. PULIDO: Oh, okay. 2267

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### MS. SHINE: Yeah. You can submit it 1


### through the electronic portal, but those are the 2


### kinds of things that would be helpful to us. 3



### MR. PULIDO: Yeah. We have that, and we 4


### have been really stressing that throug hout all of 5


### our public hearings in the last 5 to 7 years. 6



### And at first, it was a deaf ear, but now the 7


### community, who speaks loudest, of course, has 8


### stand up. And the agencies around us have 9


### realized that that would be a good way to develop 10



### that first ba seline, if you will, and we should 11



### -- it's long overdue. 12


### So we can start measuring and see who is 13


### really polluting where and what's really 14


### happening to our communities, and not to say, 15



### well, you know, there's been 10 flare

- ups this 16


### year, but they were mil d or whatnot. We want to 17



### be able to really graph

-- and we have the access 18



### now

-- and chart to see what is going to affect 19


### our children and giving them the opportunity to 20


### have the HRAs there and go out in the 21



### communities. 2268

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### We do that. We've done 600. Je sse will 1


### talk about that later, and he will expound on it. 2


### We did 600 ourselves, just walked the streets in 3


### Wilmington, and we spoke to the parents and 4


### families and children. And they did a 5


### comprehensive survey, and we will be glad to 6



### share that info wit h you. It shows that they 7


### say, "Yeah, we have lung infections," or, "Yeah, 8


### we have sinuses." They just think it is natural 9


### progression of, you know, life, but young kids 10


### are getting respiratory diseases, you know. It's 11


### getting deadly. 12



### If we could tie t he DMH or the L.A. 13


### County hospitals here locally with their findings 14


### and with our agencies, maybe that would be a good 15


### way to track and see how much this hotspot area 16


### that we live in is affecting our children's way 17



### of life. 18


### So thank you for that question, and we'll 19


### get you that information. 20



### MS. SHINE: Thank you. 21



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 2269

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### MR. MADRID: Hi. Good morning. My name 1


### is Jorge Madrid. I am the Director of 2


### Partnerships with the Environmental Defense Fund. 3


### Two quick things before I deli ver my 4


### testimony. The first is that I am delivering 5



### comments on behalf of our technical team, which 6


### is a team of scientists and attorneys who are 7


### working on this exact issue, and they are spread 8


### out across the country. They will be delivering 9



### formal rema rks in addition to remarks at each of 10


### the hearings that are going to be planned 11


### throughout the state, but I will try my best to 12



### deliver their remarks as with the same 13



### enthusiasm. 14


### Secondly, I am here to stand in

-- I am 15



### humbled to be here. I am here to st and in 16


### solidarity with the community members here. I 17


### myself am from East Los Angeles. I studied urban 18


### planning at USC. We have a lot of our own air 19


### quality issues, deeper inland to Los Angeles, but 20


### we don't have these big refineries spewing stuff 21



### into o ur communities every day, and these 2270

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- 3376 

### communities do. So I want to say that we want to 1



### serve as a resource to both the EPA and to the 2


### communities here who are fighting this every day 3


### and who are suffering. 4



### And I think for me, that's been sort of 5



### the most p owerful thing that I'm going to be 6


### taking away from here, and I also have the 7



### remarks that I have submitted earlier, but we 8


### will be submitting formal remarks. 9



### We have about 750,000 members nationwide 10



### and over 40,000 in California. We are dedicated 11



### to wor king towards an innovative, cost

- effective 12


### solution to address the most serious public 13


### health and environmental problems, building on a 14



### foundation of science, economics, and law. 15


### I thank you for this opportunity to 16


### strengthen refinery air toxic emissions limits 17


### and monitoring equipment to protect health. 18


### We support this effort of the agency and 19



### of the communities here to reduce emissions of 20


### carcinogens, neurotoxins, and hazardous metals 21


### from some of California's highest polluting 2271

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### facilities. According to the recently release 1


### Cal Enviro Screen, many, if not most, of these 2


### fcs are located within disadvantaged communities, 3


### and by that, I mean communities that already have 4


### a high pollution burden from other pollutants and 5



### that have other socioeconomic challen ges, such as 6


### high poverty rates, low access to health care, 7


### low health outcomes for the community. These are 8


### communities that are already bearing the burden 9


### from frankly our addiction to fossil fuels, and 10


### we need to do something about it, because it is 11



### ex tremely unfair. 12


### I am sorry, but to hear from the industry 13


### that there is no danger posed to the community 14


### sounds like a very cruel joke. 15


### Every day, millions of Californians are 16


### exposed to toxic air emissions, and they pose a 17


### cancer risk, degrade our air q uality, cause 18


### illness and premature death. The facilities 19


### vastly responsible for these pollutions are 20


### petroleum refineries. EPA's proposal to change 21



### the status quo cannot come soon enough. 2272

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### First, the movement toward better 1



### fence

- line monitoring is impor tant for making 2


### sure we have a better understanding of the amount 3


### of benzene entering local communities and, 4


### importantly, to begin the urgent and vitally 5


### important work of holding these facilities 6



### accountable for toxic emissions. 7


### If there is indeed no pro blem, then those 8


### monitors will tell us that, but I suspect that 9


### there is, and we need those kinds of safeguards 10


### in the community, so that we have the right 11



### information and so that we can make this

-- and 12



### hold the polluters accountable. 13



### I think we heard so mething earlier about 14


### a webcam to actually visually monitor these. I 15


### think that's important, and I think, again, if we 16


### have nothing to hide, then let's indeed install 17


### these monitoring technologies. EDF is also 18


### pioneering additional monitoring technology with 19


### the company Google, so those cars that drive 20


### around taking pictures of our streets, we have 21


### also been attaching air quality sensors to them 2273

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### to measure various pollutants. Right now, we're 1


### focusing on methane, but I personally think that 2



### it's somethin g that could be retrofitted to

-- or 3



### the sensors themselves could be used to monitor 4


### other pollutants. That working in tandem with 5



### the fence

- line monitoring and other monitoring 6


### systems that have been mentioned today are 7


### important, because we have a right to the 8



### information. 9


### Although we recognize that EPA is 10


### proposing to take important steps in many areas, 11


### there remain many open items. For example, we 12


### urge the EPA and California officials to carry 13



### out an up

- to

- date health risk and impact 14



### assessment, that I think has already been 15


### mentioned, to account for cumulative impacts of 16


### these and other nearby industrial facilities on 17



### children and overburdened in communities. 18



### EPA should also look at safety 19


### investigations for additional insights and 20


### preventative act ions and the use of inherently 21



### safer systems. 2274

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### Further, EPA must look to set limits on 1


### all pollutants, like hydrogen cyanide, and ensure 2



### that all facilities meet the same standards of 3



### performance. 4


### Finally, looking into the future, 5



### California refineries, l ike many others across 6


### the U.S., are being modified to receive different 7


### and oftentimes lower quality crude oil. This is 8


### a problem. EPA must not allow air emissions, 9


### upsets, and accidents that make the community and 10



### the workers less safe because of this new crude, 11


### and this rulemaking is an important part of 12


### making sure that won't occur. Indeed, EPA must 13


### vigorously strengthen safeguards for communities 14


### and neighborhoods afflicted by this pollution. 15



### The U.S. EPA, our President Obama has 16



### stated the commitm ent to put environmental 17


### justice into action. This rulemaking provides a 18


### concrete opportunity to make this happen. 19


### We look forward to continuing to work 20


### together with the agency, with the community 21


### members here, to develop protections for all 2275

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### Californian s that Americans need and deserve. 1



### Thank you very much. 2


### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. All right. 3



### Thank you. 4



### [Pause.] 5


### MS. LASSITER: All right. So, at this 6


### point, we are going to take a 15

- minute break. I 7


### have got 10:25. So we will be back at 20 minute s 8


### until 11 for our next speakers. 9



### Thank you. 10



### [Recess taken from 10:25 to 10:42 a.m.] 11


### MS. LASSITER: I'm going to get started 12


### back again. We currently have three more 13


### speakers on our list, and so at this time, is Mr. 14



### Jesse Marquez

-- is he here? 15



### ATTE NDEE: He is outside. 16


### MS. LASSITER: He is outside. Okay. 17


### All right. So, as Mr. Marquez is making 18


### his way to the table, I would also ask Pastor 19


### Carrillo, if you would also come to the speakers 20



### table, please. 21



### MR. MARQUEZ: I have three documents. 2276

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### MS. LASSITER: Okay, super. Thank you. 1



### [Pause.] 2


### MR. MARQUEZ: There are six different 3



### maps. 4


### MS. LASSITER: Oh, they're different. 5


### Okay, thank you. All right. 6


### MR. MARQUEZ: They are six maps of all 7



### six refineries. 8


### MS. LASSITER: Okay, good. All right. 9


### MR. MARQUEZ: And what it is, is that 10


### it's an overlay of each refinery in the Cal 11


### Enviro screen database, and basically, what it 12


### shows is that all six refineries are in the high 13



### red result. 14



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, great. Thank you. 15


### All right. So would yo u like to begin? 16


### MR. MARQUEZ: Good morning, and thank you 17


### for this opportunity. My name is Jesse Marquez. 18


### I'm a lifetime resident of Wilmington. I'm also 19



### the Founder and Executive Director of the 20



### Coalition for a Safe Environment. We are located 21



### and h eadquarters here in Wilmington, but we have 2277

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### members in over 25 different cities in the State 1



### of California. 2


### We are here to say that all six of the 3


### Los Angeles Oil Refinery Committee support 4


### adoption of stricter oil refinery air pollution 5



### standards and str icter regulation of oil refinery 6


### manufacturing operations. 7


### Our communities are in a public health 8


### crisis because regulatory agencies have allowed 9



### oil refineries to release hundreds of tons of 10


### toxic air pollution each year. Our children and 11



### families are s uffering and dying from lung 12


### cancer, leukemia, lymphoma, myeloma, asthma, 13



### COPD, and numerous other health illnesses, 14


### because we are exposed to unsafe levels of toxic 15


### and carcinogenic chemicals every day and every 16



### year. 17



### Our children's lives and future are at 18


### stake, and as parents, we must take every action 19



### to assure that the new amendments will 20


### significantly reduce our children's exposure to 21


### toxic air pollution from oil refineries in our 2278

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### communities. 1


### EPA has a legal responsibility to protect 2


### our rights to clean air and good health. Oil 3


### refineries have no rights. 4



### We have thousands of families who live 5


### fence line to major oil refineries who breathe 6


### refinery toxic chemicals every day. There are 7


### equipment failures and malfunctions, power 8


### outages, flaring, fi res, explosions regularly at 9


### every oil refinery here in Los Angeles. 10



### Even last Sunday, on a Sunday afternoon, 11


### there was a flaring event at Valero, just, you 12



### know, half

- a

- mile from here. It blew all the way 13


### east, past Long Beach and Signal Hill towards th e 14



### 605 freeway. It went all the way north to past 15


### the 91 freeway to Paramount and La Mirada, and 16


### that's how far it was going. 17


### Our organization reviewed flaring data 18


### for all six major oil refineries in Los Angeles 19


### from the year 2000 to 2011 and discovered that 20


### flaring had increased every year at every oil 21


### refinery, and there was not one investigation by 2279

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### the California South Coast Air Quality Management 1



### District, the California Air Resources Board, or 2


### the U.S. EPA, let along any enforcement action. 3



### We have reviewed the U.S. EPA proposed 4



### amendments, and we do support them. However, 5


### they are not enough to protect our children and 6


### community's health and guarantee our safety. 7


### The amendments do not require any 8


### chemical or emission category to being reduced to 9



### l ess than significant, and that is important to 10


### us, because without a target date to reduce it to 11



### a safe level, our communities are never safe. 12


### Three years ago, my sister called me up 13



### and asked me to go to my parents' house, because 14


### I live in Wilmington wh ere my parents life. My 15


### sister had moved to a job in Brea. My nephew was 16


### diagnosed with lymphoma. She wanted me to be 17


### there with my mother and father, since they're in 18


### their 80s. So she has explained on the phone 19



### that my nephew has lymphoma. My mother started 20


### crying. My mother, after the phone call, looks 21


### at me, and you may not know this, but all 2280

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### "Jesses" and all "Jesuses" have a Spanish 1


### nickname, which is "Chuy." 2


### So she looks at me, crying, "Chuy, mi 3


### hijo." "Mi hijo" is Spanish for "my son." "You 4


### will go with your sister to every doctor's 5


### appointment. You will save my grandson's life. 6


### Everything that you have learned. Everything you 7



### ever talked about, you do what you can." 8


### So I went with my sister to the next 9


### doctor's appointment. Not once

-- now, we're 10


### talking about cancer specialist and blood 11


### diseases. Not once did he ask where did you 12


### live, because she grew up in an oil refinery 13


### community. Her husband grew up in an oil 14


### refinery community. Her parents, our 15



### grandparents

-- we have four gene rations now. So 16


### there is even DNA damage that we believe is now 17


### hereditary that makes our immune systems weak. 18



### We believe that the risk

-- and I have read in 19


### the EPA document that it says a degree of 20


### uncertainty. Well, the only reason there is a 21



### degree of uncertainty in the different categories 2281

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### of risk is because EPA has not required adequate 1


### studies to be performed. 2


### If you go right now on the Internet and 3


### you search "air pollution public health problems, 4


### research studies, or abstracts in oil refinery 5



### c ommunities," do you know how many you will find? 6


### You're lucky if you find five or six, and some of 7



### those are out of the country. 8



### However, Ricardo mentioned some of our 9


### studies, and I continue doing more research. And 10


### we have now put together a bibliogr aphy of health 11


### studies and abstracts and hospital and agency 12


### reports on refinery emissions, and we can provide 13



### that to you. 14



### Also, we have brought up about health 15



### risk assessments. Well, health risk assessments 16


### mean very little to us because they only tel l us 17


### how many people might die as a result of exposure 18


### to a chemical or multiple chemicals. But we 19


### support our health impact assessments because a 20


### health impact assessment can include a public 21


### health survey, and in that public health survey, 2282

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### it will tell you how many people have asthma or 1


### COPD or leukemia. It will tell you their age. 2


### It will tell you if they're a child or a senior. 3


### It will tell you how long they have been ill, how 4


### serious they have been ill, what medications they 5


### are taking, and what th at cost has been. 6


### Right now, you have no clue, but in the 7


### 600 people that interviewed

-- that we 8


### interviewed in our survey, I can tell you 9


### exactly. More than their own personal doctor, 10



### what they

-- what is wrong with them, because, 11



### see, we looked at leuk emia as our key disease, 12


### and we listed 21 symptoms. Now, actually, there 13


### is more than 21, but the top 21 symptoms of blood 14


### diseases, and we had residents already with 15


### leukemia, lymphoma, and myeloma, but we were 16


### surprised we also found out some of them ha d 17, 17


### 18, 19, 20 symptoms and had not been diagnosed. 18



### How can that be? 19


### So we are here testifying before you. We 20


### are submitting our public comments to you, asking 21


### you, because you do have the legal authority to 2283

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### be able to address all of our concerns and 1


### mandate the type of things that we are 2


### recommending, because we know when we are exposed 3


### to benzene, the chances and the risk is very high 4


### for a blood disease. Because if you're a parent 5


### and you tell me your child has been diagnosed 6



### with anemia, which mea ns that there is an iron 7


### deficiency, and if they take vitamins and eat 8


### more vegetables with iron in it, it will be 9



### better, but that doesn't mean that to me or any 10


### member of my organization or staff. If you tell 11


### me a child has anemia, that is the first sig n, 12


### number one, that they may have are leading 13



### towards a direction of a blood disease like 14


### leukemia, myeloma. 15



### If a parent or an adult tells me they 16


### have just been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, I 17


### already know right now with 99 percent accuracy 18



### that their hom e where they are living and have 19


### been living was built on top a refinery, on top 20


### of an oil well, on top of a fuel tank farm, 21



### because we have now learned that after 25 years 2284

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### of leaving there, the vapor intrusion from those 1



### facilities and from those shutdown refineries 2


### will rise. And that is a first flag for us. 3


### So I thank you for this opportunity. 4



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 5


### Any questions? 6


### [No audible response.] 7



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. Please. 8


### PASTOR CARRILLO: My name is Alfred 9


### Carrillo. Carrillo is spe lled with two r's and 10


### two l's. I have been a resident in the City of 11


### Wilmington for about 64 years. Within those 64 12



### years, I have been pastor for 35 years, but Jesse 13



### had mentioned so much diseases and sicknesses in 14



### our area. 15



### Our church is located about a half

- a

- mile 16


### from oil refineries, and within that area, my 17


### congregation is about 130. And about one

- third 18


### of our congregation has illnesses of different 19


### diseases. Other than that, the community that I 20


### have been pastoring for these years, for 35 21



### years, I presided many funerals, and the majority 2285

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### of those funerals are the diseases that Jesse had 1



### mentioned. 2


### Knowing all of this and going to these 3


### parents, sitting down with them, and families, 4


### with these tragedies that happened to their 5


### families, how do you explain it to them? As a 6


### pastor, how do you explain things, knowing the 7


### area that you live and all these illnesses are 8


### exposed to the community, knowing that and trying 9


### to counsel them? Many of those families that I 10


### have sat down with always refer to the refinery, 11



### the area in which we live in, the trucks, 12


### containers. More than ever, I have always told 13


### certain people that one day, East Wilmington will 14



### not exist, either, or be alive or not. East 15


### Wilmington is going to disappear. The harbor is 16


### going to co me in and take it. 17


### Right now, East Wilmington, we have 18


### wrecking yards, and I think we're the junkyard of 19



### the L.A. County. And that area that East 20


### Wilmington is exposed to, we have trucking that 21



### passes through Alameda, and some of those trucks 2286

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### come into o ur area, which is East Wilmington. 1


### Not only the refinery is causing pollution, we 2


### have a trucking problem. We have rodents 3


### problem. Right across the street from our area, 4


### there is a junkyard, and years back, we fought 5


### against it, which to no avail, they still passed 6



### it. 7



### So we are in the middle of that East 8


### Wilmington. We are in the middle of tragedy, and 9


### every time someone comes to me, to my office, and 10


### telling me their diseases and their sicknesses, 11


### me as a pastor, the only solution I have, "Let's 12



### pra y," knowing, knowing already where we live, 13


### and it's touching. It's moving, how to sit down, 14


### especially when children are sick. We could say, 15


### "Well, it's the weather." To some phase, maybe 16


### you could say it is the weather, but even my 17



### wife, we've lived i n the Wilmington area, like I 18


### said, about 64 years. Now she is suffering with 19



### asthma. I almost lost her in December because of 20



### the asthma that she had. 21


### And our family members, congregation 2287

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### members, knowing in the back of my mind the only 1


### thing we have i n our ministry is "Let's pray." 2


### And I thank God that you're here listening to 3


### these people here, and I just hope and pray that 4


### it's not just words, but there are results, and 5


### the refineries are killing our community. 6



### God bless you, and thank you. 7



### MS. L ASSITER: Thank you. 8


### Okay. Next, I'd like to ask Mr. Adrian 9


### Martinez, please. 10


### MR. MARTINEZ: Good morning. Welcome to 11


### Los Angeles. My name is Adrian Martinez, and I 12


### am a Staff Attorney with Earth Justice, and I am 13


### based here in Los Angeles. 14



### And I'm g oing to start my testimony by 15


### noting that Earth Justice is going to work with 16


### several groups to file formal comments on this 17


### rulemaking, and that will be forthcoming. 18


### And then a second thing I want to talk 19


### about is start from a basic premise of Earth 20



### Just ice's comments, and that is everyone has the 21


### right to breathe clean, healthy air and have 2288

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### strong protection from hazardous air pollution. 1


### And I think that's something that everyone can 2



### agree on. 3


### No child should have to fear the air they 4



### breathe or bear t he extra

- hitting cost of the oil 5


### industry's pollution. Equal protection is a 6


### basic American value, and we all deserve equal 7


### protection from pollution. 8


### At this moment, the right to breathe 9


### healthy air is not equal, and this right is being 10



### denied to millio ns of Americans, because toxic 11


### substances are being spewed into the air every 12


### day by nearly 150 oil refineries across the 13



### United States. 14


### This community is emblematic of this 15


### suffering and these impacts, and so we're happy 16


### that you decided to come and have the hearing in 17


### Wilmington. 18


### These Americans living nearest oil 19


### refineries are disproportionately children, lower 20



### income, African American and Latino, and are 21


### breathing in air filled with a toxic soup of 2289

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### 20,000 tons of hazardous air pollutants, 1


### including c ancer

- causing benzene, lead, hydrogen 2


### cyanide, arsenic, formaldehyde, and many more. 3



### These are pollutants that people shouldn't be 4


### breathing. 5


### The reason these Americans are put at 6



### risk is because the current federal standards 7


### monitoring refinery pollutio n are out of date, 8


### weak, and fail in their design to protect public 9


### health. These failures include exemptions that 10


### allow for far greater missions of hazardous 11


### pollution during malfunctions and unlimited and 12


### unmonitored flaring. 13



### Fence

- line communities als o have little 14


### or no information on what they are breathing. 15


### People living in these areas just see extreme 16


### flaring light up the sky, smell or learn 17


### pollution spikes, feel unexpected health 18


### problems, and fear accidents and explosions. 19


### Adding to that, studi es have shown that emissions 20


### and health risks are vastly underestimated by as 21


### many as 100 times what is being reported to the 2290

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### EPA. 1


### In fact, the South Coast Air Quality 2


### Management District commissioned a study, and 3


### they found that volatile organic compound 4



### emissions from some refineries in the South Coast 5


### were underreported, and we will likely be 6


### submitting that into the record, so you can 7


### review that 2013 report. 8



### As a result of all this, EPA was taken to 9


### court for failing to comply with the Clean Air 10



### Act and told they must address these problems 11


### with a more protective standard. The law 12


### requires EPA to prevent unacceptable health risk 13



### and assure that all sources follow the best 14


### practices of the industry to reduce pollution. 15



### These new proposed standards ar e a good 16



### start, but more still needs to be done, and now I 17



### will articulate some of the more that needs to be 18



### done. 19



### The new first

- time regulations for 20



### fence

- line monitoring are a positive step to 21


### finally ensuring refineries measure and report 2291

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### toxic air pol lution entering local communities' 1



### air and take corrective action when limits are 2


### exceeded. However, before finalizing, EPA must 3



### strengthen them, so they actually protect people 4


### from exposure to toxic pollution. 5



### Fence

- line monitoring and the related 6



### corr ective action standards must mandate the use 7


### of the best current technology to give 8


### neighborhoods a real

- time, continuous measure of 9


### pollution, not just a snapshot, and ensure that 10


### refineries must quickly fix all pollution 11



### problems through enforceable corr ective action 12


### requirements. 13



### Like fence

- line monitoring, the new 14


### monitoring and combustion efficiency requirements 15


### for flaring must be strengthened and finalized

. 16



### In addition, EPA needs to ban emissions from 17


### routine flaring and minimize use in other 18



### circ umstances to protect people from these 19


### emissions, which currently violated the Act, as 20


### sources of hazardous air pollution in which EPA 21


### has placed no limit. 2292

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### In addition to removing all unlawful 1


### exemptions, including for startups, shutdowns, 2



### and malfunction s, and other uncontrolled 3


### emissions, and finalizing its proposal to ban 4


### uncontrolled emissions from pressure valves and 5


### bypasses, EPA should not finalize any special 6


### deals for industry that loosen emissions limits 7


### during startups, shutdowns, and malfunctio ns. 8


### And that's a very important component of what 9



### needs to happen. 10


### EPA must also finalize limits for delayed 11


### coker units and storage tanks that are as strong 12


### as possible. 13


### EPA must require stronger protection from 14


### wastewater and all other emissions point s, rather 15


### than rejecting protections based on distorted and 16


### inappropriate considerations of the cost per ton 17



### of reductions. 18



### An up

- to

- date health risk and impact 19


### assessment that applies the scientific 20


### recommendations of the National Academy of 21



### Sciences mus t be done to account for the 2293

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### cumulative impacts of refineries' toxic air 1


### pollution on children and overburdened 2


### communities, and underreported emissions from 3


### flares, cooling towers, and tanks, including 4


### during upsets. EPA must find that this current 5



### healt h risk is unacceptable. 6


### The findings from investigations of 7


### refinery incidents and other developments in 8


### pollution control must be used to require 9


### preventative action. The use of backup power, 10



### the phase

- out of dangerous chemicals, and the use 11



### of all avai lable, inherently safer systems before 12


### emergencies occur, including current leak 13


### detection and repair requirements, such as 14


### leakless valves and monitoring to prevent leaks 15



### of hazardous material. 16


### EPA must also set proper limits on all 17


### pollutants, including by reducing hydrogen 18


### cyanide and ensuring limits on all hazardous air 19


### pollutants to require lagging industry members to 20


### catch up with the cleanest sources, instead of 21


### exposing the public to unfair out

- of

- control 2294

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### emissions. 1


### And prior speakers have talked about the 2


### remedy in their communities was praying. You 3


### don't need to pray. You have the authority to 4


### regulate and reduce this pollution to protect the 5


### communities, and I think it's important that you 6



### move forward with that. 7



### Thank you. 8



### MS. LASSITER: Th ank you. 9


### Any questions? 10


### [No audible response.] 11



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 12


### All right. I don't have any more 13


### speakers who have signed up. If you are 14


### interested in speaking, you can sign up at the 15


### desk outside. We will be here until eight 16



### o'clock tonight. We are going to be taking a 17



### break for lunch from twelve to one, and then 18


### we're going to also be taking a break, I believe 19



### it was, from five to six for dinner, as well. 20


### So thank you, and I am going to break, 21



### but as soon as we have anybody else sh ow up, I 2295

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### will announce

-- 1


### Francisco, do we have anybody else? 2



### ATTENDEE: There is no one else here. 3


### MS. LASSITER: No one else right now. 4



### Okay. 5


### All right, thank you. 6



### [Recess taken from 11:12 to 11:49 a.m.] 7


### MS. LASSITER: Okay. So would you like 8



### to go ahead and begin? 9



### MS. BABICH: Sure. 10


### MS. LASSITER: Okay, all right. Ready? 11



### MS. BABICH: Yes, I am. 12


### MS. LASSITER: Okay. So if you'll just 13


### state your name and who you're with, and if you 14


### will please spell your name for our reporter 15



### here, because we are taking minutes of the

-- 16



### MS. BABICH: I have already done that. 17



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 18



### MS. BABICH: Great. 19


### My name is Cynthia Babich. I am Director 20



### of the Del Amo Action Committee, and I am also 21


### the Coordinator for the Los Angeles Enviro nmental 2296

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Justice Network. 1


### In 1987, my husband ran his repair 2


### business from a shop two blocks from the 3


### ExxonMobil refinery in Torrance. In the early 4



### afternoon in late November
, an explosion at the 5


### refinery nearly knocked him to the ground and 6



### blew out the windows of nearby businesses. 7



### W e became very concerned about our 8



### day

- to

- day safety and soon heard the story of the 9



### 19

- year

- old w oman who was killed when vapors from 10


### the refinery drifted onto the adjacent highway 11


### causing her car to stall. When she restart ed it, 12


### the fumes ignited, engulfing her car and sending 13



### a fireball towards an 80,000

- gallon gasoline 14



### storage tank. The tank exploded, killing two 15



### workers . T he woman died the next day. 16



### The road was the cross

- street to my 17



### h usband ' s business. 18



### A probe foun d that ExxonMobil had 19


### violated refinery safety rules
, and a corroded 20


### pipe was the cause of the vapors engulfing the 21



### road. Refinery practices to only do what the 2297

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### bare minimum dictates. 1



### T hey put off for another day whatever 2



### they can get away with. They do not deploy good 3



### leak detection and repair practices

. and this 4


### must be fixed right away. 5



### It is clear that this industry has great 6



### influence over how they are regulated. Our group 7


### participated in the review of a T itle V permit 8



### for ExxonMobil
, which was tr uly an illuminating 9


### experience. After several written requests and 10



### in

- person attempts to review documents in 11



### r elation to how the refinery was being managed 12


### under its permit, we were led to a room which 13



### contained the notices of violation s that we 14



### wanted to review. 15



### I was shocked beyond belief when the 16


### attendee monitoring our review asked me to put 17



### Post

- it N otes on the pages I was cop y ing
, so that 18



### they could report to ExxonMobil what was reviewed 19



### by us. 20


### This is the reality on the ground. We 21



### need strong rul es at our disposal to protect our 2298

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### communities and make them safer. These 1


### situations and much, much worse in many of the 2


### 32 states housing 150 refineries are occurring on 3



### a regular basis. 4



### We bare the health burden of the 22,000 5


### tons of toxins pumped into our air yearly. We 6



### need strong rules
, or our communities continue to 7



### be sacrifice zones, where death often is the end 8



### result. 9



### And I would like to read in the record an 10


### article from the Daily Breeze dated November 11


### 25th, 1987, which is a chronicle of many of the 12


### situations at the Torrance ExxonMobil refinery. 13


### The fiery halo that surrounded the Mobil 14


### Oil refinery Tuesda y must have been like déjà vu 15



### for longtime neighbors. Fireballs, explosions
, 16


### and billows of smoke have long been part of the 17



### ref in ery’s leg acy, as many Torrance residents can 18



### attest. One of the earliest explosions at Mobil 19


### was in 1978, when a giant unit caught fire, 20



### s pewing layers of thick soot over streets and 21



### houses. No injuries were reported. 2299

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### The most serious explosion at the 1



### Torrance p lant was in the early evening of 2



### December 3 rd , 1979, when vapors from the refin ery 3


### drifted onto Van Ness Avenue, causing 19

- year

- old 4


### Cynthia Elizabeth Moore’s car to stall. When it 5



### restarted , the fumes ignited and engulf ed her 6



### car, a 1973 Camaro , and sen t a fireball toward 7



### the storage tank. The tank exploded, killing two 8



### workers. Moore died several days later. 9



### A probe found th at Mobil had violated 10



### state refin ery safety rules. Three months 11


### earlier, a badly corroded and overly patched pipe 12



### was blamed for a fire which ripped through a 13



### gas

- processing tower. The spectacular explosion 14



### s hattered windows and sent s hock waves as far as 15


### 10 miles away. 16


### Since 1979, Mobil Oil, which employs some 17


### 800 workers at the plant, has been riddled with 18



### less serious but nonet heless hazardous fires. In 19


### January 1985, flammable liqu id butane gas leaked 20



### from a rail road tanker car on Mobil property, 21


### resulting in a vapor cloud and the closure of a 22100

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### portion of Prairie Avenue. Firefighters and 1


### Mobil employees were able to contain it. 2


### Investigators later determined that the gas had 3


### escaped while it was being unloaded from the 4



### t anker car. 5


### A fire in February 1984 ca used several 6


### thousand dollars of damage to the Mobil refin ery , 7



### but no one was injured. The cause of the fire was 8



### a rupture d chemical line, which spewed a 9


### combination of kerosene and hydrogen gas into a 10



### furnace. 11



### In May 1984, a ruptured p ipe at the 12



### refin ery sent superheated oil shooting into the 13



### air. The greasy mist covered automobiles, homes, 14


### clothing
, and other property as it was blown 15



### south ea st by winds. At least 2,500 people 16



### r eported damage to the company. 17


### A pump failure in May 1980 triggered a 18


### minor explosion, breaking a pipe and causing fuel 19



### to spill. No one was injured
, but firefig hters 20



### battled the blaze for hours. 21



### A major modernization program during the 22101

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### 1960s, the refinery was built in 1929 by General 1



### Petroleum Company , was almost completely 2



### r econstructed. It was the most extensive 3



### modernization in Mobil’s history. But since that 4



### time, critics contend, Mobil hasn ’t kept up with 5



### the times, specifically when it comes to today’s 6


### pollution standards. 7


### An engineer testified in 1985 that Mobil 8


### officials delayed needed repairs in air pollution 9


### equipment for more than 2 years , despite 10


### warnings. Plant breakdowns, air qua lity 11


### violations, citations for safety infringements
, 12



### and citizen complaints mounted between 1981 and 13


### 1984, according to state and local documents. 14


### And in 1986, neighbors forced the refinery to 15


### test for explosive vapors. In 1986, neighbors 16



### forced them to test for explosive vapors. 17


### We need a strong refinery rule that is 18


### something that is enforceable, because we the 19



### fence

- line communities bear the burden of making 20



### sure enforcement happens. 21


### Thank you so much for being here. 22102

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### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 1



### Do yo u have any questions? 2


### [No audible response.] 3


### MS. LASSITER: All right, thank you. 4


### Are you ready? Yes. Robina

-- is it 5



### "Suwol"? 6



### MS. SUWOL: Yes. 7



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 8



### [Pause.] 9


### MS. SUWOL: Hi. Good morning. My name 10



### is Robina Suwol. I am the Founder and Executive 11



### Director of California Safe Schools. We are a 12



### children's environmental health and environmental 13


### justice coalition located here in Southern 14



### California. 15



### We are very concerned about the releases 16


### of hazardous air pollutants from th e refineries 17


### and the impacts of those releases on children's 18



### health and well

- being. 19


### On our refinery tour this Monday of the 20


### refineries in the South Bay, we noticed

-- and 21


### especially I noticed

-- that there were really 22103

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### dozens of schools and day care center s, and that 1



### these schools and day care centers are located at 2



### the fence lines of these refineries. Yet, the 3


### risk assessment done by EPA does not assess the 4


### special vulnerability of children to these 5


### hazardous air pollution releases. 6



### EPA must look at the recommendations of 7


### the National Academy of Sciences, because the NSA 8


### has told the EPA that they need to run risk 9


### assessments, which include the special 10



### vulnerabilities of our children. And without 11


### specific protection provided by the Clean Air Act 12



### and the pollution reduction, which the Act 13


### specifies, children, vulnerable children living 14



### near these refineries, will continue to be 15


### sickened by refinery emissions. 16


### Please. Please help us with this and 17


### increase the protection on these rules. Thank 18



### you. 19



### MS. LA SSITER: Thank you. 20



### Jane, are you ready? 21



### MS. WILLIAMS: I am. 22104

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### MS. LASSITER: Okay. 1


### MS. WILLIAMS: How are you, Ms. Lassiter? 2



### MS. LASSITER: Good. How are you, Ms. 3



### Williams? 4


### MS. WILLIAMS: Ms. Shine, how are you? 5


### Nice to see you. 6



### MS. SHINE: Thank you. 7


### MS. LASSITER: So, Jane, if you wouldn't 8


### mind saying who you are affiliated with, so we 9


### can get it on the court reporter's

-- 10



### MS. WILLIAMS: Hello. I am Jane 11



### Williams. I am the Executive Director of 12



### California Communities Against Toxics, which is a 13


### coalition of environmental justice groups here in 14



### California. It was founded in 1989 at the 15


### Resurrection Church in East Los Angeles in Boyle 16


### Heights, and we have worked on refinery pollution 17


### for many, many years with our partner members 18


### here in Los Ange les and are very concerned about 19


### the impacts of the refinery rule on the health of 20


### folks here living in Los Angeles and other parts 21



### of California. 22105

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### We are one of the plaintiffs that sued 1



### U.S. EPA to force them to set standards on a 2


### deadline for pollution r eductions from the 3


### refinery industry. 4



### So what I want to talk to you today about 5


### is, recently, Dr. Barry Wallerstein from the 6


### South Coast Air Quality Management District 7



### rented

-- or actually leased a LIDAR unit from 8



### one of the Scandinavian countries and b rought it 9



### over here and drove around and took a look at 10


### refinery emissions and published a report at the 11


### end of last year, which we will enter into the 12


### record during our formal written comments. 13



### What that study found, what that 14


### monitoring data found was t hat refinery emissions 15


### are much higher than we previously have known. 16


### And I know this must come as a shock to you all. 17


### I know many people in the room would be stupefied 18


### to know that refineries emit more than they 19


### report and emit more than we have been 20



### es timating, and many of those emissions are VOCs, 21


### so we want the agency to be thinking carefully 22106

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### about this information and how it changes the way 1


### in which we are thinking about regulating 2


### refinery emissions. Okay? 3


### And we understand that the Agency is on a 4


### time frame, and, you know, we need to think very 5


### closely about how it may change the risk 6


### assessments, it may change the control 7


### technologies. 8


### I also want to bring to the Agency's 9


### attention that because we do not really have a 10


### very good leak detection an d repair portion in 11



### this rule that

-- and our global LDAR rule 12


### apparently is not going to be happening, we would 13


### like the Agency to seriously consider adding an 14



### anonymous near

- miss reporting requirement in 15


### which refinery workers would be able to 16



### anonymousl y report both pollution leaks, safety 17



### issues at refineries. This has been used 18


### sporadically at refineries across the country. 19



### It has resulted in emissions reductions. It is 20


### currently in use for nuclear workers, for 21


### firemen, for the airline industry, and the 22107

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### consensus of a number of safety experts is that 1


### these anonymous reporting systems that encourage 2


### workers to report unsafe conditions at refinery 3


### facilities or chemical manufacturing facilities 4


### or other types of facilities results in the 5



### refineries bei ng run better, not having deferred 6


### maintenance, not as many accidents and kabooms. 7


### And so we would definitely like the 8


### Agency to consider adding that to the rule. We 9


### know the rule is currently in its proposed form, 10


### but given the absence of actual specifi c 11


### requirements for leak detection and repair, we 12


### think that putting in this anonymous near

- miss 13


### reporting system would be a very good idea. 14



### The center for the anonymous near

- miss 15


### reporting for the airline industry is actually 16



### here in California. It's run by NASA. It's up 17


### in the Bay Area, and I know that some of you gals 18


### who were up there recently, it would be great, 19


### maybe you can make it back up there again and go 20


### take a tour of that facility, because as I was 21


### growing up, I remember hearing airlines cras hing 22108

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### all the time. And we just don't hear about that 1



### too much anymore, and a lot of safety experts say 2


### that the reason is because we have this anonymous 3



### near

- miss reporting. 4


### So I could go on and on and on with a 5



### number of different comments, but I do wan t to 6



### thank you for all of your hard work. I know that 7


### many of you here from EPA working on this rule, 8


### making it now for at least a half

- a

- decade, if 9


### not longer, and you must be getting tired of just 10


### working on refineries. You might think about, 11



### you know, let's see, miracles, have a 12



### miracle

- growing contest, you know, or something 13


### else that was a counterforce, like the yin and 14


### the yang of refinery pollution. That might 15


### really be nice. 16


### But, of course, we're going to be 17


### submitting written comments, but thes e are the 18


### two major issues that the agency really should be 19


### thinking about now, because the time frames of 20


### the rulemaking are going to get short. We know 21


### that we have received a request for an extension 22109

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### from industry. We will be communicating on that, 1



### as well. We know we've got a request for an 2


### extension of the comment period. 3


### So thank you so much for the opportunity 4


### to testify, and I guess I will turn it over to 5


### some of the other folks here who are going to 6


### speak, because I could continue, even though my 7


### red light is on. 8


### All right. Thank you for the opportunity 9



### to speak. 10



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 11


### Did you have any specific questions? 12


### MS. WILLIAMS: Any questions? 13


### MS. SHINE: I don't, but let me just 14


### reiterate. You said there were two points. One 15


### is the anonymous reporting system. 16



### MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. 17



### MS. SHINE: And the other one, I assume 18



### is the underestimation of emissions. 19


### MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 20



### MS. SHINE: Okay. 21



### MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. 22110

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### And we have this new report that we are 1


### going to be givin g you. In fact, probably won't 2


### wait to put it in the docket, probably will wait 3



### -- probably won't even wait that long. Put it in 4



### front of you guys when you get back. 5



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. 6


### MS. WILLIAMS: We'll put it in the 7


### docket, but we'll also put it in front of you, so 8


### that you can start thinking about how you want to 9



### respond. 10



### MS. LASSITER: That would be helpful. 11



### Thank you. 12



### MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you so much. 13


### MS. LASSITER: All right. 14



### [Pause.] 15


### MS. LASSITER: We are going to break for 16



### lunc h. We will be back here at one o'clock to 17


### start again, so thank you. 18



### [Luncheon recess from 12:08 to 1:12 p.m.] 19


### MS. LASSITER: All right. Good 20



### afternoon. 21


### Since I see some folks that maybe weren't 22111

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### here at eight or nine o'clock this morning when I 1



### did th e introduction, I am going to go and just 2


### cover a few things before I ask our next speakers 3



### to come forward. 4


### So thank you all for coming to this 5


### public hearing. My name is Penny Lassiter. I am 6


### the Group Leader for the Refining and Chemicals 7



### Group, and w e're located in EPA's Headquarters 8


### Office in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina. 9


### Joining me here on the panel today are 10



### Brenda Shine, who is also in the same office with 11


### me, as well as we have two representatives from 12


### EPA Region 9. We have Shaheerah Kelly, and we 13



### also have Elizabeth Adams. 14


### So we are here today to listen to your 15



### comments on the rule that we proposed for 16



### refineries on June the 30th, 2014. This rule is 17


### based on risk and technology review, and it 18



### covers two standards that we currently h ave in 19


### place that affect emissions from refineries. 20


### We are proposing additional control 21


### requirements in the proposed rule to cover 22112

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### additional requirements for storage tanks, for 1


### flares, for coking units, as well as to establish 2



### an air concentration standa rd at the fence line 3


### of refineries that require fence

- line monitoring 4


### as an approach for managing fugitive emissions of 5


### air toxics from refineries along with ensuring 6


### that communities are not being exposed to 7



### unintended emissions. 8



### So when the rule is full y implemented, we 9


### anticipate a reduction of 5,600 tons per year of 10


### toxic pollutants and along with that also a 11



### co

- benefit of 52,000 tons per year of volatile 12


### organic compounds. 13


### We will be accepting oral comments on all 14



### aspects of the proposal today, and w e will 15


### prepare a written transcript of the hearing. We 16


### have a court reporter here that will be keeping a 17


### transcript that will be fined in the regulatory 18



### docket. 19


### We are also accepting written comments on 20


### the proposed rule until August the 29th of this 21



### yea r, and if you didn't do so, there are some 22113

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### handouts available at the registration desk at 1


### the front that give you information about how to 2



### comment and how to submit those comments. 3


### We will be here until eight o'clock 4


### tonight. We will be taking another br eak for 5


### dinner from five until six, and we are asking 6


### people to limit their testimony to 5 minutes. I 7


### am not being terribly strict on that, because 8



### don't have a whole lot of speakers today, but 9


### just so that you are aware of the time that you 10


### are using to speak, there will be a clock up 11


### here. When you see it turn yellow, you will know 12



### that you are at the 4

- minute mark, and when it's 13


### red, you will be on the 5

- minute mark. 14


### Let's see. I think that's pretty much 15


### it. We do have some people here available who 16


### are Spanish

- speaking translators. If any of you 17


### need their assistance, please feel free to speak 18



### to either of the two ladies on the front row 19



### here. 20


### So, with that, I am going to go ahead and 21



### start back. We have two speakers that have 22114

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### registered to speak at this point, so I am now 1


### going to ask Ms. Chr istine Arquel and Ms. 2



### Florence G haribian if both of you are available. 3


### If you will please come to the front, and then I 4


### will give each of you an opportunity to present 5


### your testimony. 6



### If you would, please s tate your name and 7



### who you're

-- if you're representing any 8


### particular organization, who that is, and you may 9


### want to spell your name, just so we can be sure 10


### to get it correct for our record. 11


### So, with that, are you Ms. Araquel? 12



### MS. ARAQUEL: Mm

- hmm. 13



### MS . LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 14


### MS. ARAQUEL: I am Christine Araquel, 15



### A

- r

- a

- q

- u

- e

- l, with People's Community 16


### Organization for Reform and Empowerment, People's 17



### CORE. 18


### I actually grew up in the South Bay 19


### community nearby the refinery on Wilmington and 20



### 223rd, and my family and relatives, we all have 21



### histories that include asthma, heart disease, and 22115

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### kidney damage. Many of my relatives that lived 1


### along the fence line, they live nearby the 2


### refineries in Carson and in Wilmington. So these 3


### types of experiences and the health histories, 4


### that is what encouraged me and engaged me to 5


### participate in the work of People's CORE as a 6



### youth. 7


### We have worked in the City of Carson for 8


### the past 18 years to assist local stakeholders, 9


### youth, and the larger community through educa tion 10


### and community engagement to participate in 11



### decision

- making processes that address local 12



### environmental health. And from the work that we 13


### have been doing, the day care centers, the local 14


### residents, the elementary schools that we work 15



### with have all show n concerns for the high 16



### incidences of asthma attacks and ER visits with 17



### their children and students. 18



### With the EPA's enviro screen tool, our 19


### community is classified as a disadvantaged 20


### community, and for many long

- term residents, 21


### there's several questions

- - many questions and 22116

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### growing concerns about local environmental health 1



### and how it will be further affected as a result 2


### of climate change. 3



### We support the EPA's new amendments; 4


### however, we feel that it could be strengthened. 5


### It's imperative that flare redu ction plans are 6


### implemented for all communities impacted by 7


### refinery pollution. 8


### Monitoring of all chemicals released by 9


### refineries must be established on an ongoing 10



### basis. 11


### In addition, it would be greatly 12



### beneficial for our communities to be considered 13



### f or public health studies by the EPA with the 14



### fence

- line communities of oil refineries. 15


### And with new generations in our 16


### community, it is an opportune time to make a 17


### shift in how they are going to grow up and what 18


### they will remember about what it is like to play 19


### outside. It is an opportunity for the younger 20


### generation to grow up with a better sense of 21


### health, less hospital visits, and fresher and 22117

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### cleaner air for many of us, how many of us might 1



### remember. 2


### Thanks for the opportunity to speak, and 3



### we hope tha t recommendations for strengthening 4


### the new proposed air quality standards will be 5


### considered integrated in the new refinery 6


### standards and requirements. 7



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 8



### [Pause.] 9



### MS. LASSITER: Ms. Gharibian

-- I don't 10


### know if I'm pronoun cing your name correctly. 11



### MS. GHARIBIAN: "Gharibian." 12


### MS. LASSITER: "Gharibian." Okay. 13



### MS. GHARIBIAN: And I'm glad to be here 14


### this afternoon and talking with you. My name is 15


### Florence Gharibian. That is spelled 16



### G

- h

- a

- r

- i

- b

- i

- a

- n. I worked for the federal EPA 17


### in the San Francisco Regional Office for a number 18


### of years in the Library Information Center. I 19



### also worked for the EPA in the Denver National 20


### Enforcement Investigation Center. I transferred 21



### over to the State of California on an IPA 22118

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### assignmen t in Sacramento, where I worked with 1


### communities who were very concerned about 2


### Superfund sites like the Stringfellow acid pits. 3



### Then I really changed gears and started 4


### doing field inspections at companies in Los 5


### Angeles, including the refineries. Most of the 6


### rest of my career with the State of California
, 7


### where I worked for 26 years, was a Branch Chief 8


### in the Enforcement Program. 9



### Toward the end of my career, where I 10


### retired in May of 2011, I did environmental 11


### justice work in the communities of Los Angele s, 12


### Fresno, Imperial County, Oakland, met with the 13


### people that lived there, heard their stories, and 14


### found them compelling

-- grandmothers with 15


### grandchildren that have asthma, women that get up 16


### in the middle of the night to take their kids to 17



### the emergency room. 18


### Since my retirement, I have been working 19



### with the L.A. Environmental Justice Network, and 20


### you have heard several of their members speak 21


### this morning, Cynthia Babich, Jane Williams, 22119

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### Jesse Marquez, and I consider them to be heroes 1



### in the environmental movement. They fight hard 2


### for what they know these communities need. 3


### I actually didn't plan to make another 4


### trip down the 110 freeway today to speak to you, 5


### but I woke up this morning, and I honestly

-- I'm 6


### not going to do this, but I woke up this morni ng, 7


### and I thought about the things that I heard at a 8


### meeting yesterday about the refineries. 9



### I heard about how I believe the air 10


### district has done some studies where they have 11


### determined that the fugitive issues from the

-- 12


### the fugitive emissions

-- I not iced in the 13


### materials that you have presented, unintended 14



### emissions

-- from these refineries are actually 15


### the major cause of air pollution from the 16



### refineries from their calculations, and a 17


### fugitive emission means petroleum fumes, which 18



### are flammable. 19



### I t hought about the fact that we have 20


### several day care facilities that are located 21


### right across the street from refineries and 22120

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### people who live there. 1



### I went on a bus tour on Monday where we 2


### went to a community that is sandwiched between 3



### the 110 freeway and t he Chevron refinery. I've 4



### been to schools that are located on busy 5


### roadways, and people who are living in dangerous 6


### environments, it really matters. These rules 7



### really matter. 8


### And I think about the pressure that the 9



### federal EPA is under on behalf of the petroleum 10


### industry. For example, the API, I read their 11


### press release. It feels like they say the same 12


### thing over and over and over again, "It's too 13


### expensive. It can't be done. It's going to take 14



### too long. It's not needed." These rules and 15



### more are needed, and the reason I came here today 16


### is to ask you to have your inspectors go to these 17


### refineries, go with the South Coast Air Quality 18


### Management District, go with the ARB inspectors, 19


### go with the fire department inspectors. Do your 20



### own fence

- line moni toring. Do your own 21



### evaluation of these refineries. 22121

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### And I'm also asking you to organize 1


### meetings with the people who work there and talk 2


### to them about what they see happening at these 3


### refineries every day. 4


### I am also asking that that work be done 5



### in the non

- eight

- to

- five work hours, because it 6


### is my experience that these companies know the 7


### inspectors won't show up on Thursday night or 8


### Sunday morning or Saturday night. So I'm asking 9


### for unannounced, not with appointment, surprise 10


### inspections, at least as an initial first step, 11


### so that you get your own data about what's going 12



### on. 13


### I am also asking

-- your regulations talk 14


### about maximum available control technology. I 15


### want to see that kind of technology in the front 16



### -- in the fence

- line monitoring equipment that's 17



### used, and I want to see 24

- hour fence

- line 18


### monitoring. I want to see that data available to 19


### the public, and I want to see more than benzene, 20



### because these refineries have more than benzene 21


### in their air pollution. 22122

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### I want to see this flare problem really 1



### understood and tackled, and I don't want to see 2



### an annual average benzene level, because that's 3


### not an accurate way to get a picture of what's 4


### actually happening on these refineries. 5


### Please be aware, these refineries, many 6



### of them

-- the Chevron re finery in this area was 7



### built in 1912. I want to know these are not 8



### patched

- together, Scotch

- taped, fitted

- together, 9


### piecemeal refineries. I want these to be 10



### state

- of

- the

- art, the best that they can be. 11


### The other thing that I will say to anyone 12



### who asks me about environmental protection is the 13


### key to the future, our ability to meet the 14


### climate change challenges that we all face, is 15


### new technologies, nurturing new technologies, 16


### finding ways to not only reduce pollution but 17


### actually clean up our air. And I feel that all 18


### of our regulatory agencies have gotten to the 19


### point where they almost think there's nothing new 20


### under the sun, but I know new technologies will 21


### be the key to solving our environmental problems. 22123

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### I have dedicated 40 years of my life to 1



### this work, and I will continue to do so, as long 2


### as I can, because it's the most important thing 3


### any of us can do for our children and our 4


### grandchildren and the future children to come on 5


### this planet. 6



### So I ask you to feel compelled to 7



### earnestly respond to the concerns that you've 8



### heard today and the comments from the people 9



### who've worked so hard to get us to the place 10


### where we are today in the environmental groups. 11


### Thank you very much for listening. 12



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 13


### Any questions? 14


### [No audible respo nse.] 15



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 16


### At this time, I don't have any more 17


### speakers, but we will be hanging around, and we 18


### will be ready to listen when others come in to 19


### testify, so thank you. 20



### [Pause.] 21



### MS. LASSITER: We have a Mr. Albert 22124

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### Castanon. I ho pe I said that correctly. 1


### I think you came in and probably didn't 2


### hear my introduction. I'm not going to go all 3


### the way back through that, but I just wanted to 4


### let you know that we are keeping a record of the 5


### oral comments. We'll put those into the 6



### regu latory record for this rulemaking, and also, 7


### if you want to submit written comments, our 8


### comment period is open until August 29th. And 9


### there is some materials up at the front desk that 10


### explains how or where to send those, if you want 11



### to. 12



### So, with that, w e are typically asking 13


### people to take about 5 minutes, but obviously, we 14



### don't have a whole lot of speakers, so I am not 15


### really strict about that. But I will put the 16



### timer on. 17


### With that, I invite you to come forward, 18


### and if you will

-- you can have a sea t at the 19


### table. Yes, please. And if you will state your 20


### name and spell that for our person here that is 21


### taking the minutes, and if you are affiliated 22125

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### with any particular group or if you're a 1


### resident, if you'll tell us where you're from or 2



### whatever. 3



### So, with that

-- 4



### MR. CASTANON: Okay. Good afternoon. My 5



### name is Albert Castanon. I live in the 6


### Wilmington area. My address is 1135 Dominguez 7



### Avenue, and I've lived there since '68, 8


### discharged from the Vietnam conflict. I lived 9


### there for a long time. 10



### T he only thing maybe

-- I came late 11


### because I was taking classes with the fire 12


### department this morning, but I haven't read the 13


### brochures yet. And the only complaint that I 14


### have, this oil company that is right here on 15


### Anaheim where Banning is, I know, I rea lize that 16


### we're having a water shortage, and the biggest 17


### complaint I have there is I don't know if they're 18


### using raw sewage in the air at night. It goes in 19


### the area where I live, and I small nothing but 20



### human feces and urination. And when the wind is 21



### no wind, you can go anywhere outside, and you hit 22126

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### pockets of gases. 1


### And I've talked to the neighborhood about 2


### it, and everybody thinks, well, we smell it, 3


### because I worked for the district almost 42 years 4


### for the sanitation, Los Angeles County sanitation 5



### wo rking in the sewage department. And when I 6



### smell that, it smells like I'm in a wet well or 7


### inside a sewer line, and that's not good, 8


### especially when people are sick around here. 9



### That's not good to breathe. 10



### And I know there's a lot of methane in 11



### the air, because I

-- you can't smell methane, 12


### and it's a deadly gas. 13


### So I know, I realize that if you have 14



### reclaimed water, it doesn't smell like that. So 15


### I don't know if they are tapping into the sewer 16


### line where there is nothing but sludge and raw 17



### sewage , bu t they are pumping that into the 18


### ground. And I want to know what's going on in 19



### that area. 20


### That's not a good air to breathe, you 21


### know, day and night. 22127

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### So that's the on l y thing I have to say 1



### for now. 2



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. 3



### MR. CASTANON: Maybe one of the companies 4



### can answer that for me. 5


### MS. LASSITER: Can you maybe pinpoint the 6



### location a little bit better, so we can 7



### understand where? 8


### MR. CASTANON: Okay. The oil company is 9


### right here on Anaheim and Banning and Eubank, and 10


### there's part of the Banning h istory there in the 11


### corner. And I worked with Salvadore to clean up 12


### Wilmington, and we were planting their plants. 13


### And the odor was so strong, it was coming in like 14


### the wind comes in and moves up and down. And I 15


### told him, "Hey, Salvadore, it is coming f rom up 16


### here at this plant here. They're using raw 17



### sewage." 18



### And I live on the east of that or the 19



### other side, and the closest main street is L 20



### Street, McFarland, and Stanford and Young, and 21


### I'm right there on Dominguez Street. 22128

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### MS. SHINE: All right, that 's good. 1



### Thank you. 2



### MR. CASTANON: Is that it? 3



### MS. SHINE: Yep. 4



### MR. CASTANON: Okay. I'm all done. 5


### MS. ADAMS: My other suggestions, too, is 6


### to call the South Coast Air Quality Management 7


### District. They have a hotline number that I can 8


### give you for when you smell things like that 9



### locally. 10



### MR. CASTANON: Okay. 11


### MS. ADAMS: I'll get it to you. 12



### MR. CASTANON: Okay. 13



### That's all what I have to say. 14



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 15



### MR. CASTANON: Okay. 16


### MS. LASSITER: All right. Next, we have 17



### a Ms. Kathleen Woodfield. Ms. Woodfield, if you 18



### would please come to the table. If you would 19


### state your name, and also if you would please 20


### spell it for the court reporter. 21


### MS. WOODFIELD: My name is Kathleen 22129

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### Woodfield. I am the Vice President of the San 1



### Pedro and Pen insula Homeowner ' s Coalition, and 2



### we're a coalition of over a dozen homeowne rs' 3


### organizations throughout San Pedro and Rancho 4


### Palos Verdes and Wilmington. 5


### First, I'd like to say that I had no idea 6


### that this hearing was happening. I was on my way 7



### to the doctor, and I looked at my phone, and I 8


### saw a message from Jesse Marquez, Coalition for a 9


### Safe Environment, and so it is only through that 10


### process that I got notification, even though 11


### we're a homeowners group that is on the record 12


### for giving many comments on issues related to our 13


### exposure as residents in the area to these types 14


### of impacts. So that would be my first comment, 15


### is to find a way to communicate with the 16


### grassroots organizations. I'm sure that industry 17


### has had very direct notification, and I am also 18


### sure they get paid to write very comprehensive 19



### comments. We do not. So all the help we can get 20


### in terms of being educated and being notified is 21


### very significant to us in our capacity to 22130

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### communicate with you. 1


### I'd like to say, because I am not 2



### prepar ed

-- however, our coalition supports the 3


### comments submitted by Jesse Marquez, Coalition 4



### for a Safe Environment. 5


### I would also like to say that we are very 6



### concerned when we see the black soot, the flare 7


### releases in the sky that sometimes looks like it 8



### cov ers miles and miles and miles of skyline, and 9


### then it sits there for a long period of time. 10



### We only know what we see. We can only 11


### imagine what goes on in the night, but when we 12


### make attempts to notify AQMD, it takes them a 13


### long time to come out here, if they do, and their 14


### policy is that if they don't see it, it hasn't 15



### happened. 16


### And I know from working with people in my 17


### organization that there is a lot of frustration 18


### about the EPA following up with its regulations 19


### and being strict with the regulations tha t exist, 20


### and we feel that the regulations are not 21


### stringent enough. 22131

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### We are also particularly concern about 1


### the Rancho facility, which is actually a storage 2


### facility. So I don't know if you're taking 3


### comments about storage facilities, but it is 4


### directly r elated because it is a byproduct of the 5


### refining process. It's butane and propane 6


### storage, 25 million gallons of storage located 7


### right next to homes in San Pedro. 8


### We are working on trying to shine the 9


### light on that facility because we feel it is 10



### wrongly sited. We feel it went in without 11


### permits that it was supposed to have. It was 12



### sort of rushed in. The infrastructure is old, 13


### and it's inappropriate for containing, if there 14


### is a release. That is our opinion. So we are 15


### looking to have more oversight on that site, and 16



### I know we have contacted EPA. 17



### The violations that we find tend to be 18


### sort of like not overarching. It is almost like 19


### you see something that isn't right as a community 20


### person, and then if the EPA gets involved, it's 21



### for like someone didn't cross a "t" or dot an 22132

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### "i," when really the issues are much more 1


### overarching. 2



### Just on an anecdotal basis, I'd like to 3


### tell you a story. We have in San Pedro a rather 4


### famous artist who is moving to the area, a 5


### studio, and he has been working on his studio for 6



### a couple of months. And he's on Facebook, so I 7


### see his postings. 8


### He posted recently a picture of a huge 9


### black cloud covering the sky. Of course, he had 10



### never seen it before because he's not from around 11


### here, and he has friends all over the country. 12


### And people were appalled to see it. We see it 13



### all the time. So, to some extent, it's not that 14



### we're dis

- sensitized, but it's interesting to see 15


### what kind of response he got from his friends who 16


### have never seen anything like that. 17



### And we do see it as an environmental 18


### justice issue. We are exposed to a 19


### disproportionate amount of toxins, pollutants. 20


### We are always looking for ways that we can draw 21


### mitigation to this area because we feel that we 22133

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### have been overlooked. We know we have been 1



### referred to in Sacramento as the "environmental 2


### sacrifice zone," but I did not bring my child 3


### into this world to be a sacrificial lamb for any 4


### industry. 5



### So as much as I can press upon you to be 6


### as diligent as possible with these industries 7


### that just seem to run the worl d. That's all. 8



### Thank you very much. 9



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 10


### Let me ask you a question. We are taking 11


### comments specifically on the petroleum refining 12



### rule that we put out on draft form on the 30th of 13


### June, but the facility that you mentioned in San 14



### P edro, is that a storage facility, or can you 15


### tell me specifically what it is? 16



### MS. WOODFIELD: It's called Rancho LPG 17



### LLC, I believe. It's an LLC, and it's Rancho. 18



### It's on Gaffey Street. It's located near 19


### schools, homes. It has the capacity to store 25 20


### million gallons of butane and propane. It also 21



### has, I think, five bullet tanks located on the 22134

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### site. It's right close to the street. It 1


### doesn't meet many, many requirements that would 2


### now be part of a design. 3



### Matter of fact, we've been told that it 4



### wou ld never be sited where it is if it were to be 5


### built now. It also would be built very 6


### differently. There's been a lot of variances, 7


### and we don't understand why so many variances

-- 8


### how this facility got in and why it got in 9


### without having to meet certain requirements. 10


### The risk management report is something 11



### that we are concerned about. We're concerned 12


### about the fact that it went from a pipeline 13


### operation to a rail truck operation, without any 14


### change in the risk management report, without any 15


### change in the EIR. 16


### We know that the rail line moves through 17


### the Port of Los Angeles, and if there's a blast 18



### zone associated with each inch of that rail 19


### movement, and we believe that not only our homes 20



### and schools are vulnerable, but the Port of Los 21


### Angeles itself, which is the economic engine of 22135

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### this state and in many ways of the nation, that 1


### the port is vulnerable, therefore. So we are 2


### particularly concerned and have been advocating 3


### for change with this facility for many years. 4



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 5



### MS. WOOD FIELD: Thank you. 6


### MS. LASSITER: Do you have any questions? 7


### [No audible response.] 8



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. Thank you for your 9



### time. 10



### MS. WOODFIELD: Thank you very much. 11


### I don't have any additional speakers at 12


### this time, but we will stay on standby. We 're 13


### going to be here for the while. 14


### [Recess taken from 2:10 to 2:47 p.m.] 15



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. We have another 16


### speaker, a Mr. Joaquin Amador. Okay. 17


### If you will, please come to the table. 18


### If you will state your name and if you are 19


### affiliated with any particular organization, and 20


### I will start the time clock, and just so you can 21


### kind of keep track of your time. If you will 22136

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### state your name for our recorder here, because 1


### this will become part of the public record, so 2



### thank you. 3



### MR. AMADOR: Great. Thank you. 4


### Good afternoon. My name is Joaquin 5



### Amador, and like Mr. Castanon, I am also a 6


### resident of Wilmington. 7


### I see that we have it being put on the 8


### record, so I decided to go ahead and say my 9


### piece, since it's going to be on the record. I 10



### don't know how far it will go, not expecting it 11



### to be any value, but at least I'll be able to 12



### vent, because I back Mr. Castanon. 13



### He has stated some of the problems that 14


### we have in the Harbor area. not just in 15


### Wilmington, but in San Pedro and Harbor City. I 16



### have lived in all three towns. I grew up here. 17


### I went to school, a graduate of San Pedro High 18


### School, summer of 67. So I grew up in the days 19



### of the smog, and I remember the smog and how bad 20



### it was. 21



### I don't know how, if it affects me now, 22137

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### but now I have a lot of h ealth issues. I have a 1


### lot of personal loss because of our lifestyle 2



### nowadays. 3


### I just recent lost a very close cousin of 4


### mine, Danny Hernandez, who worked for 76 Union in 5


### Unical and whatever they've named that now. He 6


### put in his 30 years, and he was get ting retired. 7


### Within a year, he died of cancer. He just passed 8



### January. Great guy. 9


### My little sister can't sell her house. 10



### She lives in the section that borders the 11



### Carousel section in Carson, off of Lomita 12



### Boulevard. They have condemned that land bec ause 13


### the Shell refinery, they used to sit on it. It 14


### contaminated the land, and now all those people 15


### who are coming up with health problems, they 16


### can't sell their homes. And my sister can't sell 17


### her home. So this has hit me pretty personal, 18



### pretty deep. 19


### As far as I go, I'm a Vietnam veteran, 20


### like Mr. Castanon too. I wasn't a grunt out in 21


### the field, but I was a supply clerk. I did my 22138

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### year at a base camp humping parts for the 1


### division, the 25th Infantry Division, Customer 2


### Chi. And I did my tour of a yea r and came home. 3



### And when I came home, I got out of the 4


### army, I went to work just as a regular 5


### warehouseman and worked in a factory making the 6



### floor tile, and it seems that all that kind of 7


### labor stuff got me involved with the chemicals 8



### there too, asbesto s and the radiation, because 9



### when I was a warehouseman, I handled supposedly 10


### safe radioactive material, but it appears it 11


### wasn't, because the VA has suspicions that now 12


### I've got leukemia, bone marrow cancer, on top of 13


### my diabetes and my heart problems. Go d knows 14


### what else will pop up. 15


### So like I said, this has hit me very 16



### personal all the way around, and all I wanted to 17


### say is that I've got nieces and nephews, 18



### grand

- nieces and

- nephews, and I hope that 19


### someday, our government will finally realize in 20



### order to save our people that they've got to get 21



### rid of oil and all these chemicals. That's all 22139

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### there is to it. 1


### We must find something else that can 2



### clean

- burn it. I know there is something. I 3


### mean, we as humans, walk around burning sugar and 4


### air to get arou nd, and I can't understand why 5


### they don't go and try to find that for our 6


### machinery that burns clean and doesn't pollute. 7


### I remember how in the '70s, they kept 8


### blaming the hairspray for polluting the air up in 9


### the stratosphere, but they never mentioned th e 10


### jets that fly at that altitude dumping their air 11


### exhaust. But everything

-- like I say, bottom 12


### line is money, so I can't see where there's going 13



### to be any change. 14


### But I still hope for my little ones that 15


### someday maybe they will have a better chance. 16



### B etter chance. 17



### Well, also for the record, I lived at 18


### 1332 West Sandison Street, Wilmington, and it 19


### looks like it will be my last place to live. 20


### That's all right. I just hope that someday the 21


### authorities will finally wake up and realize they 22140

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### just can't ke ep gambling with people's lives in 1


### order to maintain the status quo. 2



### That's all. 3


### MS. LASSITER: Thank you for speaking. 4



### [Pause.] 5


### [Recess taken from 2:55 to 3:15 p.m.] 6



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. We have another 7


### speaker this afternoon. We have Ms. Fe Koons. 8


### MS. KOONS: Yeah. My name is Fe Koons. 9



### I live at 1631 Balard Street, Carson, California. 10



### I live about less than a mile from this oil 11


### refinery. 12


### I'm very close to Wilmington Avenue where 13


### there is probably about five refineries. We have 14



### Rhodia, Shell be hind us

-- well, Shell is not a 15


### refinery. They're tank farms. But we have 16


### ConocoPhillips. So along Wilmington Avenue, we 17


### have a bunch of refineries, small and big ones, 18


### and Wilmington Avenue is also a source of 19


### particulate matter, because there's a lot of 20



### trucks that come from warehouses in Carson that 21


### comes right along that road. 22141

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### But the bigger problem is that I'm a 1


### teacher, so I teach preschool. Within Dolphin 2



### Park

-- Dolphin Park is about two blocks from 3


### Wilmington Avenue, and probably three blocks from 4


### where Tesoro Refinery is, and so really our 5



### concern is about the children and the health risk 6


### that the children are exposed to. 7


### You know, it's not fair that you say, 8


### okay, there should be 101 million lifetime cancer 9



### risk. There should be zero. Ther e should be 10


### zero risk. Nobody should be allowed to die of 11



### cancer at all. Nobody. Zero. 12


### We're also talking about the seniors. A 13


### lot of old people in our area also live very 14


### close to the refinery, and as you know, as you 15



### get older, your system breaks do wn. 16



### And then I would like to talk about 17


### flaring. The problem with flaring is that, you 18



### know, there's really

-- it says here that the 19


### monitoring is being done, but if you

-- we do 20


### monitor Tesoro, and most of the time, when people 21



### are asleep, we see the fl aring being done. This 22142

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### is usually past 10 p.m., and you would know. You 1



### don't have to be a scientist to know this because 2


### you smell it. It's like burning tire, rotten 3


### egg, so we know that there is flaring that goes 4


### on usually after 10 p.m. and past midn ight and 5



### also sometimes on weekends. 6


### You know, there is vapor recovery 7


### systems, technologies that you can use. These 8


### should be done, but the point is you can always 9


### search for new technologies, but the point is 10


### there should be no flaring done at all

-- a t all 11



### -- if it's going to be a health risk for the 12



### children and the families within the area. 13


### There should also be a strong community 14


### education on flaring. So if you guys give 15


### grants, you know, we can put up new technologies, 16


### but if the people understand the health risk of 17


### flaring, then they're the ones that will tell us, 18


### the community organizations, or they themselves 19


### will know. Again, it's not a matter of getting 20


### new technologies. It's a matter of just telling 21



### people that they shouldn't flare. 22143

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### The bu sinesses have responsibilities. 1


### They should have social responsibilities. You 2


### know, you have no other choice but to buy gas. 3


### If I had choices, I would never buy gas. There 4


### should be no fossil fuel, because, you know, the 5


### climate change is here. We nee d to move on. We 6



### need to think of ourselves, because we are 7


### causing our own death, and most of those 8


### businesses and the executives, they don't live in 9


### Carson. They don't live in Wilmington. They 10


### don't suffer the way that children suffer, so now 11



### is the t ime. Now is the time to do it. There 12


### should be zero. Nobody should die of cancer. 13



### Nobody. 14



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 15


### [Recess taken from 3:20 to 3:24 p.m.] 16



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. So we have another 17



### speaker, Mr. Dan Hoffman. 18



### MR. HOFFMAN: That was very quick. 19


### MS. LASSITER: Yeah. So if you'd like to 20


### have a seat, and if you will

-- we are keeping 21


### the minutes with a court reporter. So if you 22144

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### would state your name and the spelling of your 1


### name and if you are affiliated with any 2


### organization or whatever you want to kind of tell 3



### us about yourself. 4


### MR. HOFFMAN: Good afternoon. My name is 5


### Dan Hoffman. My last name is H

- o

- f

- f

- m

- a

- n, and 6


### I am the Executive Director for the Wilmington 7



### Chamber of Commerce, so I absolutely have an 8



### affiliation. However, I am here this afternoon 9



### as a resident. I have been a resident of 10


### Wilmington for the last 40 years, almost 41 11



### years, and I really wanted to share what I've 12


### observed over that time, particularly the last 37 13


### years in the neighborhood I live, which is on the 14



### 1300 block of West I Street. 15


### So if you're familiar with Wilmington, 16


### the 1300 block of I Street, if you go straight 17



### down it, it is the on

- ramp to the Harbor Freeway. 18


### If you go to Figueroa and make a short left and a 19


### short right and go three blocks down, you a re at 20


### the front door of Phillips 66. 21


### So in that period of time, my wife and I 22145

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### have seen our own girls grow up. I have seen my 1


### neighbors' kids grow up, and so I think that I 2


### have a good relationship with most of my 3


### neighbors and have a real sense of what' s going 4


### on in the community there. I can assure you that 5


### none of our own children have suffered any ill 6


### effects from being there. 7


### Having said that, if I knew then, that 8


### is, when we purchased our house, what I know now, 9


### perhaps I would have selected a dif ferent 10


### location. And my neighbors' children haven't 11


### suffered any ill effects that I'm aware of, 12



### except for one that does have asthma. And none 13


### of my neighbors that I'm aware of

-- and 14


### certainly, I'm sure you could delve into it

-- 15



### have suffered ill effec ts, at least from the 16


### refinery itself. 17


### I have lost two neighbors in the last 18


### several years. Each of those neighbors, I can 19


### assure you, it had nothing to do with the air 20


### they were breathing. 21


### Having said that also, do I think

-- 22146

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### well, let me share what I have observed in terms 1


### of how things have improved. When I was growing 2


### up in the '60s

-- and I grew up in Redondo Beach 3


### and then I went to school and high school in 4


### Torrance, the air was horrible. I graduated in 5



### '67, and I remember many days where my e yes 6



### burned, and it hurt to breathe. 7


### I don't notice that today. I notice that 8


### I see the mountains more days than I ever did. I 9


### know, statistically, our environment has improved 10


### dramatically. 11


### Am I saying that everything is okay and 12



### we don't need to do an ymore? I don't think that. 13



### I don't believe that for a moment. I believe 14


### global warming is real, and we have to address 15



### it, but I also feel that we have to be cautious 16


### about how we go about it. 17


### I can share with you that I've talked to 18



### one of my members who has some heavy equipment, 19


### diesel equipment, who is thinking seriously about 20


### importing fuel from China, and when I asked why 21


### fuel from China, his response was, "Because I can 22147

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### get fuel from China that meets our standards, our 1



### California standards, and sa ve money." I think 2


### that's a legitimate concern and something that we 3


### ought to put into perspective. 4


### My sense is as fuel prices will rise, 5


### which is likely to happen, that is going to 6


### become a more lucrative proposition. 7



### Currently, as I'm aware, we don't have 8


### the storage capacity to do a lot of that. 9


### However, if it becomes profitable enough, 10


### certainly that is a reality that could happen. 11


### I just hope that we can take that into 12



### consideration. I think there are a lot of 13



### standards that our California refine ries meet now 14



### that are better than most of the nation and most 15



### of the world, for that matter. That's my 16


### personal opinion in some of the things that I've 17


### gathered from talking to some refinery managers 18


### and people in the industry. So I understand that 19



### that 's somewhat biased. 20


### But these jobs that they bring are pretty 21



### good

- paying jobs. I know at Phillips 66, because 22148

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### we just recognized them recently, it's 600 1



### full

- time jobs, averaging somewhere around the 2


### $100,000, which is certainly more money than I 3



### make, and they have great benefits. 4


### And so I will hope that you take these 5


### things into consideration, in addition to the air 6


### monitoring. I know there was a monitor put in at 7


### Phillips a few months ago. I haven't been able 8


### to get any data out of it. I know th at there's a 9


### study that's just been completed by the Harbor 10


### Community Benefit Foundation or through a grant 11


### they had on asthma and its effects. I think we 12



### need to know what those answers are, but I've 13


### heard testimony at so many of these meetings 14



### about ast hma and the ill health effects, and what 15



### I would like is some real facts. And I think 16


### that study for the first time at least in regards 17


### to asthma will give us some of those answers, and 18



### then I think we need to take that into 19



### consideration. 20



### But I would we lcome any questions that 21


### you might have of me. 22149

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### MS. LASSITER: Yeah. I will ask you, Can 1



### you repeat the name of that study? 2



### MR. HOFFMAN: Oh. It was a grant that 3


### was funded through the Harbor Community Benefit 4


### Foundation, and it was a study that was

-- it's 5


### done through the County Medical Office, which is 6



### at the corner of Broad Avenue and N Street, as in 7


### Nancy. And it should be just

-- if it hasn't 8


### been completed, it should be completed very, very 9



### soon. 10


### And I mentioned that specifically because 11



### when I took a tour with the Harbor Community 12


### Benefit Foundation, when we stopped there at that 13


### medical facility, I asked the doctor what are the 14


### facts about asthma, and he said, "That's really 15


### our concern because, statistically, asthma is 16



### unreported here." Now, logically, I think we 17


### should be at least average, or if you consider 18


### all of the industry around us and the trucks and 19


### everything, above average. But the reality at 20


### least at that facility, that was below average. 21


### But I really appreciate you taking the 22150

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### tim e to come here to Wilmington and letting us 1


### have this opportunity to talk to you, so thank 2



### you. 3



### MS. LASSITER: Okay, thank you. 4



### MR. HOFFMAN: You're welcome. 5



### [Pause.] 6


### [Recess taken from 3:31 to 4:42 p.m.] 7


### MS. LASSITER: All right. So we have 8



### another speaker this evening, and let me just 9


### mention for some of you who may have joined us a 10


### little bit later here, just as a reminder, this 11


### is a public hearing on the Petroleum Refinery 12


### Sector Risk and Technology Review and New Source 13



### Performance Standards prop osed rule that was put 14


### out on June the 30th. We are in the public 15


### comment period. Public comment period closes on 16


### August 29th of this year. 17



### We do have a court reporter. So 18


### everything that is presented today will become 19


### part of the public record. 20



### If yo u would like to submit written 21



### comments, we encourage you to do that, and at the 22151

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### registration desk where you checked in, you 1



### should have received information on how to submit 2



### those comments. 3



### So, with that, I will ask Mr. William 4



### Koons to please come to th e table. Sir, yes, if 5


### you will take a seat there, please. 6


### We are asking people to take about 5 7


### minutes. Obviously, we don't have a lot of 8


### speakers at this point, so I'm not terribly 9



### strict on that, but I will have a small time 10


### clock up here. So when it turns yellow, you will 11



### know that you are at the 4

- minute mark, and it 12


### just will help you kind of keep tabs of where you 13



### are at. 14


### So, with that, please, if you would speak 15


### into the mic. Give your name, the spelling of 16


### your name, and if you are affiliated with any 17


### particular organization, if you would tell us 18



### that. 19


### [Technical interruption.] 20


### MR. KOONS: My name is William

-- I think 21


### you just wanted name and address. You want 22152

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### address? You want affiliation? 1


### MS. LASSITER: No, no, no. We just need 2



### your na me, and if you will please spell your last 3


### name and if you are affiliated with any 4


### organization or neighborhood group or whatever

-- 5



### MR. KOONS: Okay. 6



### MS. LASSITER:

-- please share that with 7



### us. 8


### MR. KOONS: My name is William Koons. 9


### That is spelled K

- o

- o

- n

- s. I am a retired 10


### engineer. I am affiliated with

-- I am on the 11


### Carson Beautification Committee, which is a City 12



### of Carson committee. I am also affiliated with 13


### the Philippine Action Group for the Environment 14


### and a few other environmental groups th at I 15


### attend occasionally. 16


### Like I said, I am a retired engineer, and 17


### one of the companies I have worked for in the 18


### past, I was a quality engineer and a reliability 19


### engineer. The company I worked for was stood for 20


### "vapor recovery." At the time I worked fo r them, 21


### it was owned by Whessoe, and then it was Whessoe 22153

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### Varec. And then later on after I left, it was 1


### bought out by a company in Texas. I've forgotten 2



### the name, but it's still in existence, and it's 3


### making vapor recovery. 4


### So the main thing I'd like to t alk about 5


### to start off is I think there should be mandatory 6


### vapor recovery systems in all these refineries to 7


### eliminate and prevent the flaring from going on. 8


### One thing that we made when I was there 9


### at Varec was we made a valve, a spring

- loaded 10



### valve that sat on the roof of the tanks, any kind 11


### of tank, actually. Some of them were used in the 12


### milk industry, but they sat on most chemical and 13


### petroleum tanks. When the tank gets filled, it 14


### pushes the product up into the air space, 15



### although nowadays, they hav e the floating roofs. 16


### But it still pushes the air in the roof of the 17


### tank, and then which increases the pressure, and 18



### so that the tank does not explode, you open a 19


### valve, which is what we provided, spring

- loaded 20


### valve with certain pressure. It opened it, and 21



### it would release that air and reduce the 22154

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### pressure. 1



### You could release it to the outer air, 2



### which is not what we want. We don't want more 3


### pollution into the air, but you did a pipe

- away 4


### to another tank, which was there for recovery of 5



### that air. 6



### Then when the product is going out of the 7


### tank, it's got the possibility of imploding. The 8


### pressure goes inward. 9



### So it was a two

- way spring

- loaded valve 10


### that allowed air or this escaped gas back into 11



### the tank. So it's

-- and it was designed in the 12



### '60s. It' s not new technology, although they 13



### have newer versions that will do much better 14


### jobs, I'm sure, of what's needed. And now they 15



### have, some, I understand, that have vacuum that 16



### not only by pressure

- release it but vacuum it 17



### out. 18


### So I am strongly supportive of mandatory 19



### use of the vapor recovery systems, and what do we 20


### want to do that for? We want to get rid of the 21


### flares. So, again, going along with that is to 22155

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### have mandatory flare reduction. If we have this 1


### pipe

- away from a valve, we don't need the flare
, 2



### because that is what the flare is there for. 3


### When there is a situation where you have 4


### a problem of any kind

-- I am already at the 5



### yellow

-- you pipe it away. 6


### Now, the industry says it is safer for 7



### the workers to have flares. Well, that to me is 8



### false . Anything going to a flare from that tank 9


### and from what the product is in the top of the 10


### tank, for example, it is not safer than piping it 11



### away. 12


### And why is it not safer? We made another 13


### thing. The flare sometimes can go back to the 14



### tank. There's been cases where the flare 15


### followed the line that's leading the flare back 16



### to the tank or back to the source. So what we 17



### made, we made a flame arrester. It fit in the 18


### line. It was a big piece of aluminum, and when 19



### the flame hit that, it cooled it down so mu ch, it 20


### stopped the fire. And I know particularly, I've 21


### seen one of these where this actually saved an 22156

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### explosion. We got one of these flame arresters 1


### back, and it actually was melted down. 2


### It had done the job

-- and my time is up. 3


### I hope I can go a litt le longer. 4



### Anyway, the flame arrester had done the 5


### job. It had protected the flame from getting 6


### back to the tank or the source and causing this 7


### explosion. So the flames, actually if they had 8



### gotten through the arrester, that would have been 9


### an explosion of that tank or that source. So I 10


### still say it is not safer to flare and have a 11


### flame than it is to pipe

- away or use vapor 12



### recovery system. 13


### And a second case is at lowering cost. 14



### That is the other comeback. It is lower in cost 15



### to flare. Well, to me, dollars and cents, we 16



### made a very low

- cost device and building another 17



### little tank to have all these. Some tanks are 18


### empty. So, to me, it is not a lower

-- it is 19



### actually a lower

- in

- cost price to have the vapor 20


### recovery. So those two are not sufficient 21


### reasons to say, "I've got to continue flaring." 22157

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### Now, the other thing that's related to 1


### the flaring is, well, when we have a power outage 2



### our power goes down. We have emergency 3



### situation. We have to flare, because we have all 4


### these processes that are in place, and we have to 5


### do something with the product. 6


### Well, again, a pipe

- away system with a 7



### vacuum or some advanced

-- which is available, 8



### why not use that? Why do we have to burn up 9


### what's in process just because we had a power 10



### failure? 11


### And along with that, why not make 12


### mandatory backup generators? Cogeneration is 13


### what some of them call it, where they make their 14


### own product, their own gasoline to run 15


### generators. So if you have a generator that is 16


### your backup, then a power outage is not a 17



### problem. You can continue running your 18



### processes. 19


### So those are the three things we want

-- 20


### I want mandatory, or I would like to see us to 21


### mandatory vapor recovery, and I would like to see 22158

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### mandatory flare reduction plans from all the 1


### refineries. I want mandatory emer gency backup 2


### power to prevent us from even having to do 3


### flaring or vapor recovery. Why not have total 4


### backup on your power if it is going to go out 5



### that much? 6


### Our one plant here has a cogeneration 7


### plant here, ConocoPhillips. It does not have 8



### enough coge neration. So, when it goes down, it 9


### still has to again flare because the

-- so you 10



### have to have capable

-- 11



### And now with the onset of

-- what do they 12


### call it? Solar panels? We can now do it without 13


### generators. We can do it with

-- if it's a 14


### daytime occ urrence, we could do it with batteries 15



### or the solar panels, probably enough power to 16


### drive most of the processes. 17


### Other things that I am for in this new 18


### plan is to

-- another thing I am critical of is 19


### we do annual averaging. This is absurd. My 20



### statistic s background, we never do annual 21


### averaging of anything. You select it by 22159

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### statistics

-- I can hardly say it now. 1



### Statistics. You select

-- government is the 2


### typical example. They don't take the average 3


### family income; they take the median family 4



### income. Why do they do that? Because you have 5


### billionaires, and you have the very poor. If you 6



### took an average, what would happen? The 7


### billionaires would bring everybody's income up. 8


### See, you can't do income averaging that way. You 9


### do it by the median: What is the middle income 10


### of the people that are earning? 11


### So, in the same regard, they do annual 12


### averaging. You take the 365 days. To me, you 13



### would use some other statistics. You would use 14


### the standard deviation, unheard of by some 15



### people, but the standard deviation gives you a 16


### range from the high and the low point or a range 17


### even. Give us a range amount. Give us a shorter 18


### amount. If you want to stay with averaging, give 19



### us a 1

- week amount of averaging. Give us some 20



### smaller amount that we can see what h appened in 21


### that week, but a year averaging, it's pathetic. 22160

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### It is not a statistical valid measurement at all 1



### to me. 2



### Like I said, I like the median, and I'd 3


### like a shorter period of time, and I would like 4


### to see some kind of range. What is the range? A 5



### h igh, low point, standard deviation. If you want 6


### to get into it deeper than a Six Sigma, which is 7


### 3 plus and minus

--- well, 99 percent of the 8


### happening. I won't get into statistics. 9


### But give me a second here. 10


### Another thing is the flares that are in 11



### u se, especially the candle flares, we made 12


### another device at the company I worked for. Part 13


### of it was a flare inside the cylinders that you 14


### are seeing now. I don't know what they call them 15


### now, but we always said it was a cylinder with a 16



### flare inside. 17



### Bu t the efficiency of them is much 18


### higher, and why is efficiency higher than a 19



### candle flare? Well, the candle flare, you 20


### sometimes have surges in the product. So the 21


### surge will come, and it will burn nice and good, 22161

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### and then the surge will stop the product. So it 1


### doesn't come in a steady flow always. It 2


### sometimes surges. So the flare will go out, and 3


### sometimes you have products spewing out, and 4


### there is no flare there. There is no light, so 5


### they have automatic restart devices. That's the 6


### first thing tha t should be there. 7


### The second thing is you have tremendous 8


### gusts of wind blowing. So the product doesn't 9


### burn evenly because the wind is scattering the 10


### product, and it is not getting to the fire 11



### always. So that's why a regular flare burns very 12



### poorly, a nd so what they came up with years ago 13



### -- this is the '90s or even earlier

-- they come 14


### up with these cylinders and the flares inside the 15


### cylinder, and it blocks the air, the air current, 16



### and they try to keep a steady flow of product. 17



### And they have automa tic igniters and these other 18


### things. 19


### So making more efficient, if we must 20



### flare, let's make them much more efficient, 21


### mandatory efficiency. We don't want open flares 22162

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### that you can see. Well, you can see them too, 1


### but they burn very 50, 75 percent efficie nt, 2



### where these enclosed flares, at least they are 3


### enclosed on the side mostly, they are 95 percent 4


### or higher efficient. So that causes

-- again, 5


### gives you less pollution, and that's what we're 6



### after. 7



### So mandatory where we have to flare. If 8



### we can't get rid of it with a vapor recovery 9


### system, then a flare control system would make it 10


### much more efficient. And the technology is 11



### there, both to do the vapor recovery and the 12


### flare efficiency increase. 13


### My time is way over, and I am supporting 14


### other things th at I like to see in this plan. Do 15


### I have more time? I'm probably boring you to 16



### death. 17



### MS. LASSITER: No, that's okay. You can 18


### take a couple more minutes. 19


### MR. KOONS: But other things I would like 20



### to see, I think the real

- time fence monitoring is 21



### very good for people to know what's going on. In 22163

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### case of an emergency, hopefully, the word gets 1


### out and people can vacate the premises, or if 2


### it's other circumstances of testing, they do have 3


### some capture now in fence lines where they have 4


### capture sticks, I be lieve. So I do support 5



### mandatory fence

- line monitoring. 6


### Again, industry says it's too costly. 7



### The Coalition for a Safe Environment here has 8


### done one for $5,000, just one that they are 9


### putting together. Approximately 5,000, he told 10



### me. That to me doesn 't sound that expensive. So 11


### even if you just put one on each of the four 12


### sides of a square box, it still would help in a 13



### lot of ways. 14


### Again, the flares should have efficiency 15


### standards, make them more efficient. If you have 16



### to have flares, can't do the vapor recovery, make 17


### the flares more efficient. Right now, very 18



### inefficient, most of them. 19


### I think that's about it. Again, I thank 20


### you for your time. Do you have any questions for 21



### me? 22164

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### MS. LASSITER: Okay. Do you have any 1


### questions, Brenda? 2



### [No audib le response.] 3



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. 4



### MS. SHINE: Thank you. 5



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 6



### MR. KOONS: Thank you. 7


### Did the sound come through all right? 8


### All right. Thank you again. 9



### [Pause.] 10


### MS. LASSITER: Okay. So it's 5 p.m. We 11


### are going to break 1 hou r for dinner and 12



### reconvene at six. And we will be here until 13


### eight o'clock tonight in case any other people 14


### show up. So we will see you back, and if not, 15


### have a good evening. 16



### [Dinner recess taken from 5:03 to 6:13 17


### p.m.] 18


### MS. LASSITER: Good evening. Th ank you 19


### for attending the public hearing. My name is 20


### Penny Lassiter, and I am the Group Leader for the 21


### Refining and Chemicals Group. We are with the 22165

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### United States Environmental Protection Agency's 1


### Air Office. We are a Headquarters Office located 2



### in Nort h Carolina. 3


### And with me this evening is Brenda Shine, 4



### who works in the office with me, as well as 5


### Elizabeth Adams, who is with our EPA Region 9 6



### office out of San Francisco. 7


### So we are here this evening to listen to 8



### your comments on the rule that we propos e for the 9


### Petroleum Refinery Risk and Technology Review and 10



### New Source Performance Standards. The rule was 11


### proposed in the Federal Register on June 30th, 12



### 2014. 13


### We are in the public comment phase of 14


### that rulemaking, and the public comment period 15



### ends on A ugust 29th of this year. 16


### So we're here to listen to your comments. 17


### We do have a court reporter. So everything will 18


### be recorded and will become part of the official 19


### record for this rulemaking. 20


### You may also submit written comments, and 21



### you can do that up through August the 29th. If 22166

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### you would like to do that, there is information 1


### of the materials at the registration desk on how 2



### to submit comments on this rule. 3


### So this rule proposes additional emission 4


### control requirements for storage tanks, flares, 5



### and c oking units at petroleum refineries. We are 6


### also setting a standard at the refinery fence 7


### line as a way to require refineries to manage 8


### their emissions from fugitive emission sources 9


### and to ensure that the surrounding communities 10


### are not being exposed to unintended toxic air 11



### emissions. 12


### When the rule is fully implemented, we 13


### project a reduction of approximately 5,600 tons 14


### per year of toxic air pollutants and about 52,000 15


### tons per year of volatile organic compounds. 16


### I will be calling the speakers up to thi s 17


### table here. You will have approximately 5 18


### minutes to make your presentation. There is a 19


### light here. When you see the yellow light you 20


### will know that you have approximately 1 minute 21


### left. If you have to run over a little bit, 22167

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### that's fine, since we don 't have a number of 1


### people speaking at this point. 2


### I will ask that when you begin to speak, 3


### if you will state your name, and please spell 4


### your last name, so that we can be sure and get it 5


### correct for the record, and if you are here 6


### representing a particul ar organization or group 7


### or community, if you would let us know that, we 8


### would appreciate it. 9


### We are scheduled to be here until eight 10


### o'clock tonight, so thank you for that. With 11


### that, I am going to go ahead and call Mr. Jose 12



### L uis Muntoz as well as, I be lieve it is, Ms. 13


### Silvia Nunez. If you will both please come to 14



### the table. 15



### [Veronica Hernandez translates the 16


### following remarks by Jose Luis Muntoz and Sylvia 17



### Nunez .] 18


### MR. MUNTOZ: My name is Jose Luis Muntoz. 19


### I am here to talk about the toxic gases emit ted 20


### by the refinery. My case is my grandson, my 21



### older daughter, and my son have problems 22168

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### breathing. My grandson needs an inhaler to 1



### breathe. 2



### I constantly have to watch my garden 3


### because of the toxic substances emitted by the 4



### refineries. It is an ash du st. It damages my 5


### plant. It just causes too many problems. 6



### I think it's not fair for the refineries, 7


### gasoline stations to make money, because us that 8


### are sick and poor

-- I just think it's not fair. 9


### At night, I don't open my window because 10



### the odor is so strong. It's all the time. I 11


### live three houses down from the refinery. 12


### Now that we have new regulations, it 13



### makes me happy, but what I need you to do, make 14


### it happen. Make good on your word. 15


### One of the examples is that I see my 16


### children try to brea the, and it hurts. He tries 17



### to breathe, and he has to breathe with the 18



### inhaler. 19



### Thank God that I have the health 20



### insurance. Without the insurance, I wouldn't 21


### know how to pay for it, for the benefits of my 22169

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### grandchild. 1


### Thank you for what you're doing. I hope 2


### that all this stops harming us, and that 3


### something worse could come of it, like cancer or 4


### any other illness. 5



### That's all I have to say. 6



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. Thank you for 7


### testifying. 8


### [Technical interruption.] 9


### MS. NUNEZ: My name is Silvia Nunez. I 10


### have been living in Wilmington for 11 years. We 11


### have been dealing with allergies, and the same as 12


### this gentleman, we always have to be cleaning. 13



### My plants won't grow. Actually, my dogs 14


### have allergies too. Not only is it me, it's also 15



### my daughter and my husband that are dealing with 16


### allergies. 17



### Now it's been like a month that I have 18


### problems breathing. Sometimes when I blow, I get 19


### like black substance. Just like the gentleman 20



### here, I have health insurance, but I have to 21


### constantly be seeing the doct or. 22170

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### Just like the gentleman here, I would 1


### like to see the proposal go through, and that you 2


### guys make good on your word for the benefit of 3


### the community. 4


### That is all. Thank you for listening to 5



### me. 6



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you for your 7


### testimony. 8



### Next I w ould like to call Mr.

-- I think 9



### it's Mr.

-- Onofre Torres. 10


### MR. TORRES: Good afternoon. My name is 11



### Onofre Torres. I live in 2130 Del Amo Boulevard 12



### in Torrance. 13


### My home is close to ExxonMobil Refinery. 14


### I live there, I think, around 15 years. I am 15



### co ncerned when there was an issue about the 16


### benzene leakage in that area. My neighbors have 17


### been relocated at that time by ExxonMobil, but 18


### the unfairness is they only relocate 10 homes. 19


### I called the manager of ExxonMobil and 20



### talked to him, and I asked him for relocation for 21


### the safety of my family. I have three kids and a 22171

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### wife. Sometimes I am worried in that area, 1


### because when I found out the history in Del Amo 2


### Boulevard, in 1987 there was an explosion, and 3



### one died in that area between Van Ness and Del 4



### A mo Boulevard, which is not far from my home. 5


### I did my own research about benzene and 6


### the history of that area on Del Amo Boulevard 7


### about benzene, and also I asked my neighbors on 8



### that area. That a lot of people there, the old 9



### ones, died in cancer, and I don't know if the 10


### cause is the benzene or the pollutants that 11


### spewed out of the refinery. I am not a 12


### physician, but I think because this is a chemical 13



### known to cause cancer, which is benzene. 14


### This leakage of benzene is not far from 15



### my home. I know mayb e I've been exposed to 16


### benzene without my knowing, because when I arrive 17


### for work, I park in that area next to this house 18


### where the underground benzene was leaking. I was 19


### expecting that ExxonMobil management will give me 20


### chance to relocate like my neighbo r does, but 21



### until now, I have no news from them. 22172

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### So I am worrying about my family and 1


### their safety. I know that ExxonMobil is an aging 2


### refinery, and anytime there could be

-- another 3


### accident could happen, and this is why I am also 4


### worrying. The safety of my family is my concern, 5



### not only for that but the health. 6


### I don't want in the future something is 7


### going to happen to our health, because a little 8


### dose, if you breathe that chemical, when you know 9


### it can cause cancer, little doses every day, if 10



### you bre athe in, it goes through your body, and 11


### you don't know in the future what will happen to 12



### your health. 13


### I want to live long, and I want to get 14


### out from that area, but the problem is because of 15


### the history in that area, the value of the houses 16



### there goes dow n, and I maybe have a hard time to 17


### sell my house because I cannot hide to the buyer 18


### about the history in that area, because I will be 19


### honest to him. And I am going to tell him. If 20


### there is a buyer, I will tell them the history 21



### about that area. Then I do n't think I can sell 22173

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### my house. They will back off if they know the 1


### history that it is a benzene

- exposed area. 2


### So until now, I hope ExxonMobil will hear 3


### my voice about relocation for my safety, but none 4


### up to now after many years already. That is all 5



### I c an say to all of you. Maybe someday, you guys 6



### can help us out there. 7


### Thank you very much, Elizabeth Adams, 8


### Penny Lassiter, and Brenda Shine. Thank you, and 9



### God bless you. 10



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you for your 11


### testimony. 12


### Okay. At this point, we don't have 13


### anyone signed up, but again, we will be here 14


### until eight o'clock. So if anyone else shows up, 15


### we will reconvene again, so thank you. 16


### [Recess taken from 6:32 to 6:37 p.m.] 17



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. So we have another 18


### person who would like to testify, Mr. Dr ew Wood. 19



### If you would please have a seat at the table. 20


### MR. WOOD: I have a problem walking, so 21



### -- 22174

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### MS. LASSITER: This is the public hearing 1


### for the proposed refinery

-- and your testimony 2


### is being recorded, so it will be part of the 3


### official public reco rd for this rulemaking. We 4


### are in the public comment period on the 5


### rulemaking, which closes on August the 29th of 6


### this year, and so if you would like to submit 7


### comments in writing, we would encourage you to do 8


### that. And if you want to do that, there is 9



### i nformation on how to submit comments to us on 10


### the papers available at the desk where you 11


### registered this evening. 12


### So, with that, we are asking people to 13



### talk about 5 minutes. I have a clock here. So 14


### when you see it turn yellow, you have about a 15



### minute l eft. Since we don't have people waiting, 16


### I am not going to call time real close there. 17



### So I think that's it, and for those of 18


### you who may have joined us since I first reopened 19


### this evening, we will be here until eight o'clock 20


### tonight. 21



### So, with that, Mr. Wood, if you will, 22175

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### please tell us if you are representing any 1


### organization or if you are a citizen here or 2


### whatever, we would appreciate knowing that. SO, 3


### sir, I will turn it over to you. 4



### MR. WOOD: Yes. I have broken teeth, why 5



### I 'm swearing a mask. I work for community g roups 6


### in Wilmington area, and very familiar with 7



### refineries. And my belief is that the

-- I am 8



### not exactly sure about the fence

- line monitoring 9


### that they are talking about, and I couldn't get 10


### answers from the EPA in Washington or San 11


### Francisco, rather the specifics as to what the 12



### fence

- line monitoring incorporates and then who 13


### actually performs it, whether the refinery does 14


### or somebody else does. And so I am uncertain 15



### about that, except that I feel that the 16



### fence

- line monitoring needs to be wind 17


### specifically surrounding the refinery property. 18


### And in this area, normally the wind comes 19


### out of the northwest at Phillips 66, as an 20


### example, and so you would need to monitor the 21


### fence line on the upwind side at the ground level 22176

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### and then also at stack emission level to 1


### determine what was coming into the refinery 2


### property from upwind sources, which I know there 3


### are. And then also, the same thing downwind of 4


### the Phillips 66 place specifically, from the 5



### stack and then fence

- line stack and at fen ce

- line 6


### ground, and this would be at the Anaheim Street 7


### juncture or line. 8


### So at the property line, as it approaches 9


### Interstate 110, you would know what was coming 10


### into the property and what they were adding to 11



### PM

- wise and VOC

- wise as it heads out of the 12



### p roperty, and the VOCs, of course, would include 13


### the toxics, and the PM would include a full range 14



### of

-- through PM10. 15



### And then what I want to include is on the 16


### south side of the 110 Freeway, the same type of 17


### monitoring at ground level, so we can determine 18


### what the freeway is adding to the mix as it heads 19



### towards Hawaiian Avenue School and sort of inland 20


### in the Wilmington communities, and then a means 21



### to also measure

-- like yesterday, the wind was 22177

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### coming directly out of the west, and so you would 1



### need a me ans of measuring the same on actually 2



### four quadrants. I'm not exactly sure how to do 3


### that, except that I feel that the refinery is 4


### producing some pollutants, and they need to be 5



### determined. 6



### I couldn't find this out either from the 7



### AQMD, and I was told th at the AQMD does 8


### continually in

- stack monitoring, but I haven't 9


### been able to find out anything about that in my 10


### inquiry. So we need to know what they are 11


### producing on a daily basis and 24/7 and what is 12


### coming into their facility at ground level, stack 13



### lev el, what is going out at stack level and 14


### ground level in their operation on the ground, to 15



### the fence line, and then add to that fence line 16



### what I

- 10 is producing, so you have an idea of 17


### what Hawaiian Avenue Early E ducation C enter, the 18



### Hawaiian Avenue Schoo l, and the Boys and Girls 19


### Club next door there, what they are being 20


### subjected to that you can quantify as being 21


### generated by the refinery and what is coming in 22178

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### above the refinery and what is being produced by 1



### the 110 Freeway. 2



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. Thank y ou. 3


### MR. WOOD: And I am developing a program 4


### just like that, because I think that

-- and it's 5


### the same with Tesoro, but this is specific to 6


### Phillips 66 or all refineries. Okay. 7


### Well, let's bring in Tesoro over at West 8


### Long Beach. I was in a meeting th ere a couple 9


### months ago, and people are not well informed. 10


### The West Long Beach community is more affected by 11


### the Port of Long Beach pollutants and everything 12


### that is coming from that area heading eastward 13


### into West Long Beach, paralleling Alameda and 14



### 710. And that if you did the same thing at 15



### Teso ro Refinery, you would be able to quantify 16


### that fact that the refinery really is not the 17


### main contributor of pollutants to the West Long 18


### Beach community. 19


### And I don't believe a refinery is 20


### producing a lot of grou nd

- level emissions. What 21


### they have as being produced elevated in the top 22179

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### gases, and I was told by San Francisco that there 1



### aren't many left because of the 2,000 degree 2



### temperature. 3



### So I believe that we need to have a 4


### quantitative measuring mechanism to s how what the 5


### refinery is producing and where it is going and 6


### who is it affecting. In order to do that, you 7


### need to have things at different elevations, and 8


### that is why I mentioned the fence

- line upwind and 9


### downwind and stack level upwind and downwind and 10



### so forth. 11



### So I think that the Hawaiia n Avenue Early 12


### Education Center would be a good example for 13


### Phillips 66, and that the West Long Beach between 14


### Pacific Coast Highway and up towards Willow would 15


### be another good area for plotting. And you would 16



### show whi ch way the wind is blowing over a period 17


### of time, and then what the pollutants are to 18


### different elevations and determine to what degree 19


### these communities are affected by the two 20



### refineries. 21



### In West Long Beach, I am very sure of the 22180

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### outcome, and I am also quite sure of the outcome 1


### with Hawaiian Avenue as an example. And benzene 2


### and toluene and all the other things are not only 3


### produced by the refinery, but also burning fossil 4


### fuels. Trucks and everybody that's in that 5


### vicinity running any kind of an engin e is 6


### producing the same types of products, and that's 7


### why I say what I did about Tesoro and West Long 8



### Beach and the Port of Long Beach and all of those 9


### operations. That's all ground level, and it 10



### stays at ground level. Whereas, the gas 11



### phase

- type polluta nts are up higher and need to 12



### be mapped and chartered as to how they flow and 13


### what they are mixing with and what degree they 14


### get down at ground level, and everything at 15


### ground level, it is negatively pressurized, 16


### unfortunately, which means that you living in 17


### West Long Beach or Hawaiian Avenue School, in 18


### that area, your house is pulling in the outside 19



### pollutants to add to what you are already 20


### producing inside your home. 21


### And when you're cooking on a gas stove, 22181

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### you might as well be at the top of the stack at 1



### Tesoro because of the pollutants, and those homes 2


### are not properly ventilated. 3


### So we need to quantify what is being 4


### subjected to those homes and the indoor 5



### environments, schools, and so forth, and where 6


### it's coming from. 7



### And I don't believe that the ne w rules of 8



### refineries

-- I think that needs to be expanded 9


### to cover all the communities that are affected by 10



### the refineries, whether it is Chevron or whether 11


### it's Phillips 66 or Tesoro or any other one. 12


### You've got to track the wind, ground level, 13


### upwind l evels, and what's in it and where is it 14


### going and to what degree is it falling and 15


### getting into the community. And after all, the 16


### people are not living outdoors. They are living 17


### indoors, and the pollutants that are emitted by 18



### the refineries and so forth will be affected to 19


### some degree, which nobody seems to know, going 20



### into those indoor environments. 21


### My belief is that we should be more 22182

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### concerned with the ground level from freeway, 1



### truck, terminals, and all the traffic that's 2


### going on right here in this port and so forth. 3


### It is more ground level, and it's heavier 4


### product, and it tends to stay that way. So 5



### that's how I view the new rule situation, that it 6


### is not specific enough to the ground

- level 7


### monitoring and what is coming into the refinery 8



### boundary , what is going out of the refinery 9


### boundary to determine what the refinery is adding 10



### to that ground

- level mix and what it is adding to 11



### the other stack

- level mix and the direction it is 12


### traveling in and to what degree it mixes with the 13



### ground level. 14



### Hopef ully, that makes some sense. I've 15


### done all the measurements myself that involve

-- 16


### that have been shown for 20 years, and the indoor 17


### environment is where the problem is. People live 18


### indoors. They don't live outdoors, and that 19



### needs to be focused on, and it's not. I've been 20


### preaching it all over the continent. 21


### So they need to do some modeling, and 22183

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### what the refinery is producing at the different 1


### levels, where it's going, and also the indoor 2


### environments, what is being generated inside, 3


### what is being pull ed out

-- from the outdoors to 4



### inside to add to that factor. 5


### And none of these places have proper air 6



### ventilation, air filtration situations, and the 7



### Title 24 in the State of California should be 8


### flushed because it says that Hawaiian Avenue 9



### School needs t o ventilate with outside air. It 10


### says nothing about checking the outside air to 11


### see if it's polluted, and if it is, filter it 12


### properly. And that is not being done nay any 13



### school in California. 14



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. 15


### MR. WOOD: All right. 16



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you for your 17


### testimony. 18


### Do you have any questions? 19


### [No audible response.] 20



### MR. WOOD: Thank you. 21



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 22184

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### [Recess taken from 6:51 to 6:59 p.m.] 1


### MS. LASSITER: Good evening. Thank you 2


### for joining us. 3



### Before I ask the next speak ers to come 4


### forward, my name is Penny Lassiter. I am the 5


### Group Leader for the Refining and Chemicals Group 6



### out of the federal EPA. We are a Headquarters 7



### Office located in North Carolina. 8


### On the panel with me are Brenda Shine, 9



### also with the office with m e, along with 10


### Elizabeth Adams, who is here representing our 11


### regional office out of Region 9 in San Francisco. 12


### So we are here this evening to hear your 13



### comments on the rule that we proposed for 14


### refineries on June 30th of this year, and we did 15



### propose a rul e that is called a Risk and 16


### Technology Review of two of the refinery rules 17



### for toxic air emissions that have been around for 18



### a while. 19



### The draft rule that we put out on June 20


### the 30th proposes additional emission control 21


### requirements for storage tanks, flar es, and 22185

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### coking units at petroleum refineries. 1


### We are also proposing a fence

- line 2


### standard and requiring facilities to monitor the 3


### perimeter of the fence line as an approach to 4


### manage their emissions of fugitives, fugitive 5



### toxic emissions, and to also ensu re that the 6


### communities are not being exposed to toxic 7


### emissions from fugitives. 8


### When fully implemented, we project that 9


### this rule will result in approximately 5,600 tons 10


### per year of toxic air pollutant reductions and 11


### about 52,000 tons per year of reducti ons of 12


### volatile organic compounds. 13


### We are in the public comment phase of 14


### this proposed rule, and the comment phase ends on 15


### August 29th. So anytime between now and then, 16


### you may submit written comments to the agency, if 17


### you would like, and there are direc tions for 18


### doing that on some of the papers that are 19


### available up at the front desk when you checked 20



### in. 21


### We do have a court reporter, so there is 22186

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### going to be a transcribe of all of the testimony 1


### presented today, and it will become part of the 2



### official reco rd for this rulemaking. 3


### So I will call you to come up to this 4


### table to speak. I will ask that you take about 5 5


### minutes to make your presentation. There will be 6


### a light. When it turns yellow, you will know 7



### that you are at the 4

- minute point. 8



### Also, when you come forward, if you would 9


### please state your name, and if you would spell 10


### your last name, and if you are representing a 11


### particular group or organization or community or 12


### whatever, if you would indicate that. 13


### So, with that, I am going to ask Mr. 14



### Abrah am Cabrera and Mr. Victor Fuentes if you 15



### would both come to the table, and I will ask that 16


### each of you make a presentation. 17


### MR. CABRERA: It will be just me, if 18



### that's okay. 19


### MS. LASSITER: Okay. Nice to see you. 20


### Thank you for coming. 21



### MR. CABRERA: Sit right here? 22187

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### MS. LASSITER: Yep. 1


### MR. CABRERA: Excuse my hair. 2



### Talk into this? 3


### I mean, I really appreciate what you guys 4


### are doing. This is good. I mean, born and 5


### raised in Wilmington. As a kid, I did have to 6



### use inhalers and all that stuff. Than kfully, not 7



### no more. 8


### I have friends that have had cysts 9


### growing in weird spots because of the refineries. 10


### I mean, it is a good thing that you are a trying 11


### to keep the community clean. I represent 12


### Wilmington, not fully, but that is where I'm 13



### from. That' s my home. If I do so happen to have 14


### one feature here, I would like the neighborhood 15



### to be nice and clean. If all of a sudden, 16


### something happens where I decide to have a 17


### family, I wouldn't want my young ones growing up 18


### in a polluted neighborhood. Same g oes for, I'm 19



### pretty sure, everybody else. 20


### I think it's good thing. I have nothing 21


### against the refineries. They are jobs, but I 22188

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### think it's good that there are some regulations, 1


### and people are stepping their foot down to help 2


### lower whatever missions are g oing on. I don't 3


### work there. I don't know what's going on, but it 4


### would be nice to have someone step in and do 5


### something about it. 6



### So I don't really have much to say. I 7


### just would really like that to happen. It would 8


### be a positive thing for the whole community, and 9


### I'm pretty sure a bunch of people will be happy. 10


### You know what I'm saying? 11



### MS. LASSITER: Mm

- hmm. 12



### MR. CABRERA: So I feel bad for those who 13


### have a hard time breathing and would like to go 14


### out and skateboard or go for running or can't be 15



### i n shape because every time they are running and 16


### like gasping for air, they can't really keep up. 17


### They can't exercise long enough. So it would be 18



### nice to fix that. 19


### And I'm here talking, because if my voice 20



### counts, then I'm all for it. That's all I have 21



### to say. I'm sorry, guys. 22189

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### MS. LASSITER: No, don't be sorry. Thank 1


### you for coming and making your testimony. 2



### MR. CABRERA: Thank you, guys. Pleasure 3


### talking. 4


### [Applause.] 5


### [Recess taken from 7:06 to 7:17 p.m.] 6



### MS. LASSITER: Okay. We have another 7



### spe aker this evening. So I'll ask Mr. Sam 8


### Reveles, if you would please come to the table. 9


### So, if you would please, Mr. Reveles, if 10


### you would please state your name and spell it for 11


### our court reporter, and then if you would please 12


### take about 5 minutes to pre sent your testimony. 13



### Thank you. 14


### MR. REVELES: Good evening. My name is 15


### Sam Reveles, as you've seen in the paper. I have 16


### been living in the Wilmington area for about 50 17


### years, and I'm wondering if I chose the right 18


### place to live, because I see my family having 19



### problems. 20



### My daughter, my granddaughter, they have 21


### problems breathing. Myself, I have been several 22190

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### times to a doctor because I can't breathe, and 1


### they tell me it's an allergy, but they never tell 2


### me I'm allergic to what. What am I allergic to? 3


### Now, first of all, forgive me, but excuse 4


### my English, okay? I'm not very fluent in it. 5


### But I always said to doctors, "What's my 6



### problem?" and he says, "You have allergy." 7


### Allergy to what? From where? Why? They give 8



### medicine. It works for a while, a nd after a 9


### while, it is the same thing again. 10


### Now I'm wondering about all these 11


### refineries. We are surrounded by them. One 12


### year, I was working in Needles, California, and 13


### one of the refineries blew up. And they 14


### evacuated the people out of the Wilmingto n area, 15


### the surrounding areas, and 300 miles away. Good 16


### thing we found somebody that took my family out 17


### of Wilmington. 18


### And what's going on? One day, we're 19


### going to blow up? The whole town is going to 20


### blow up? I think we need more safety established 21



### i n these refineries. You see those big clouds 22191

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### coming out of the stacks. What is all that? A 1



### flare

- up, they claim? We don't know. They don't 2


### tell us. That is one of the biggest problems. 3


### We have nobody to let us know what is all that. 4



### We cannot find the protection. We don't have any 5


### protection against that. 6


### I'm sorry. I'm not very good speaking in 7


### public, so I think I am going to finish with 8



### that, okay? 9



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you very much. 10



### MR. REVELES: Thank you very much. 11



### MS. LASSITER: Thank y ou. Appreciate 12


### your testimony. 13


### MR. REVELES: One more thing, please. 14



### I'm sorry. 15



### In the area, in the area that we built 16


### our house, there's 19 houses. They are like an 17


### area with just 19 houses. I built my house right 18



### across the road from an oil well, w hich I was 19


### building, and they

-- after we start building, 20


### they kept the oil well, but they wouldn't say 21


### what oil deposits there. There were tanks there 22192

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### to haul oil. I guess oil was coming out of the 1


### oil wells, but they had tanks there. I've been 2


### digging my house sometimes to put a plant or 3


### something, and the little black things coming out 4


### of the ground, like little stone, like a little 5


### something out of the ground. What is it? No 6


### idea. But I don't think it's no good. It looks 7



### like asbestos or somethin g like that. 8



### Thank you. 9



### MS. LASSITER: Thank you. 10


### [Recess taken from 7:30 to 8 p.m.] 11


### MS. LASSITER: All right. I'd like to 12


### thank everybody for attending today's hearing, 13


### and this officially closes out our hearing. Good 14


### night. 15


### [Whereupon, at 8 p.m., the public hearing 16



### concluded.] 17

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