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Page 38 

-· 1-- A-.·· -··Yes 1 --t:hat's .. right;· 

2 Q. Did you indicate to Mr~ Moffat, Mr. Whelpley's 

3 attorney, that you were not in any way involved in that 

4 lawsuit and that Mr. Roberts was acting on his own in that 

5 issue? 

6 A. Yes, that's right~ Because at that time I was 

7 · representing Mr. Rosenau in the extradition appeal to the 

8 Supreme Court. 

9 Q. But in your capacity as his attorney on the 

10 extradition, you and I did coordinate to partly to educate me 

· 11 about what had occurred up in British Columbia; is that a fair 

12 statement? 

13 A. That's correct. And you-came to my office,_and in 

14 fact Mr. Roberts was there as well, had driven. down there, and 

15 you made it very clear to him that you didn't want him 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

involved directly in serving Mr. Whelpley ~ith the order, 

b~cause ther~ was a -- ·I should explain. There was a default 

order. 

MS. ROE: Objection, your Honor. (Inaudible) . 

MR. PLATT: Well, I can ask another question. 

THE COURT: Go ahead. 

Q. I want to look back a little bit before that. Back 

23 in May 2011 when I first became involved --

24 

25 

A. 

Q. 

Right.· 

do you recall us having communication about you 

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October 28, 2011 

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Page 39· 1 

1 informing me about this other lawsuit and there was a question 

2 about the no contact conditions that were imposed on Mr. 

3 Rosenau, do you recall that? 

4 

5 

A. 

Q. 

Yes, I do. 

And do you recall that I informed you I would check 

6 with Julie Busic and find out whether or not that wo~ld be a 

7 problem? 

8 A. Yes, I remember that. It was on the 24th of May, I 

9 believe. You had indicated or I had asked you whether it was 

10 all right for us to continue, you know, in some capacity to 

11 seive that 6rder. 

12 Q. And on the -25th of May do you recall I sent an email 

13 telling y9u that I'd just got off the phone with Ms. Busic 

14 

15 

A. 

Q. 

Yes. 

-- and we determined it would at that point not. be 

16 necessarily an issue? 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

A. Yes, that's correct. 

Q. But at that point were you acting in your legal 

capacity for Mr. Rosenau or were your simply acting as his 

extradition attorney making sure there were no complications 

with the case? 

A. That's right. I didn't want Mr. Rosenau to be 

breached in any way. 

J 

I 

I 

I 

I 

24 

25 

Q; And did you have any contact with Mr. Roberts about 

informing him ·not to have con=t w"ith this other indivi=? J 

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3 Q. How did you tell him that the process service should 

4 be done? 

5 A. By process server or by sheriff. 

6 Q. And as far as you know, did Mr. Roberts follow those 

7 instructions? 

8 A. Well, I thought he was going to, but as it turned 

9 out, Mr. Roberts contacted me last week and said that he felt 

10 that this is the time for us -~ 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

MS. ROE: Objection (inaudible) Mr. Roberts, what he 

said. 

THE COURT: Why don't you ask another question 

because I think this is an answer to some other question. 

MR. PLATT: Right. 

Q. What did you learn of whether or not Mr. Roberts was 

17 following instructions about ~erving paperwork? 

18 A. Well, basically he wasn't following instructions. 

19 Mr. Roberts is a loose cannon. He very often gcies off on his 

20 own, and since he initiated this claim in the first place, I 

21 think he wanted to make sure that it didn't fall on deaf e.ars 

22 and that it was served properly on Mr. Whelpley. To that end 

23 he called me, and I said make sure this goes -through legal 

I. 1(. I . 

24 channels and that it's done through process server. ·He said I 

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October 28, 2011 

Page 41 

1 way. He did not consult me. I understand that he s.ent an 

2 email and he did riot consult me about that ahead of time at 

3 alL 

4 Q. And you didn't want there to be a problem with any 

5 allegation that Mr. Rosenau was involved with contact; is that 

6 correct? 

7 A. Precisely. 

8 Q. So had you and I discussed our concerns about Mr. 

9 Roberts and his ability to follow instructions? 

10 A. I think we talked about it-- well, as I say, he's 

11 rather a loose cannon. He does what· he does, he's Irish. 

12 Sorry. But· th~t's basically-- that's basi6ally the way he 

13. operates is as an individual, and it's difficult to know when 

14 he's going to follow instructions because he really 

15 (inaudible} . 

16 Q. Have you spoken to him specifically about whether or 

17 not he obtained approval from Mr. Rosenau or had anything to 

18 do with Mr. Rosenau with respect to this email that was sent 

19 in the last few weeks? 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

Honor. 

answer. 

A. 

MS. ROE: Objection as to the double hearsay, your 

MR. PLATT: It's the 1101, your Honor. 

THE COURT: Go ahead and answer if you know the 

Yeah, I do know the answer. In t~lking to them . 

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Page 42 

_:_ _____ .1_ ind:L v:idually, .. Mr.. B,QE;eni3_u w.a.::; ____ quit~ .. upE;et . that .. Mr._ .B.o.b_er.ts_ h_ad. 

2 taken that step because he felt that, you know, it might put 

3 him in jeopardy. And Mr. Roberts t6ld me that he had 

4 specifically done acted alone and had decided to do this 

5 partly because we as lawyers were not acting precipitously 

6 enough to· serve Mr. Whelpley. 

7 Q. Now, there was a meeting up in Canada in mid August, 

8 do you recall that, with myself and you? 

9 A. Yes. Yes, I do. 

10 Q. And Mr. Roberts at one point was at the meeting; is 

11 that correct? 

12 

13 

14 

15 

A. 

Q. 

A. 

Q. 

That's correct. 

And· Mr. Rosenau was there at the same time? 

That's right. 

And do you recall me cautioning everyone that there 

16 should be no contact with Mr. Whelpley? 

17 A. Yes, in particular that Mr. Roberts should not 

18 contact him alone. And I gave the same instruction to him. 

1-9 Q. And how would you characterize the way that I 

20 relayed that instruction to Mr. Roberts? 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

A. No uncertain terms. 

Q. And was Mr. Rosenau there when I said that? 

A. Yes. 

Q. And was _there any resistance by Mr. Roberts to what 

I was telling him or anything that you heard? Did you hear 

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Page 43 

1 Mr. Rosenau say anything about that? 

2 A. That's kind of a double question. Mr. Roberts 

3 wasn't upset. He acknowledged that we would be responsible, 

4 that I would somehow take the step, and I think that was the 

5 context in which I ask~d your earlier question. Should I 

6 decide to serve this on Mr. Whelpley, would that be okay and 

7 it would not jeopardize Mr. Rosenau's status, and you said 

8 that's fine, you'd clear with Ms. Busic, and you eventually 

9 gave me an email to that effect. When it comes to Mr. 

10 Rosenau, I think he was just standing there at the time that 

11 ~e had this dialogue with Mr .. Roberts. It's a 3-way dialogue 

12 rather than 4. 

' 13 Q. Did you hear Mr. Rosenau say anything to Mr. Roberts 

14 

15 

about whether or not he should serve that paperwork himself? 

MS. ROE: Again, your Honor, I object. The 

16 defendant is here and can testify. It's hearsay. I know 

17 it's --

18 

19 A. 

THE COURT: Go ahead if you (inaudible). 

As I recall, Mr. Rosenau said, yeah, don't do 

20 anything to breach me, for goodness sake, words to that 

21 effect. 

22 Q. All right. Is it a crime in British Columbia to 

23 serve a person named in a lawsuit with valid pleadings 

24 pursuant to that lawsuit? 

25 A. Of course not. It's normal process. 

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Page 44 

1--· THE- COUR'l'-·: ··That ·was---a- rhet::orical-questi-on·;<--

2 Q. Although you're not involved in that separate 

3 lawsuit with the order relating to travel, are you aware of 

4 whether or not that's a real lawsuit? 

5 A. Yes, a real lawsuit. It's real. A real looker 

6 springs out of it. · 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

Q. And is that a real order?. I mean that's not a 

forgery or anything? 

A. No, it's a valid order, certainly looks it to me in 

every ·respect. 

MR.· PLATT: Nothing further.· Thank you, Mr. 

12 Botting. 

13 

14 

THE COURT: Ms. Roe, any questions? 

MS. ROE: Yes, thank you, your Honor. 

15 C R 0 S S· - E X A M .I N A T I 0 N · 

16 BY MS. ROE: 

17 Q. Mr. Botting, I talked to you on the phone yesterday; 

18 is that right? 

19 

20 

21 were 

A. 

Q. 

That's correct. 

Okay. And you were I think driving because you 

I called your ceil phone, and you pulled over and 

22 chatted with me for a few minutes? 

23 

24 

A. 

Q. 

That's correct. I did pull over. 

Thank you very much for doing that. At·that time 

25 you said that Paddy Roberts was your paraleg~l, right? 

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