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1 Environmental Protection Agency 

2 

3 

4 

5 Clean Power Plan 

6 Proposed Federal Plan and Model Rules 

7 

8 

9 

10 9:15 a.m. to 5:02 p.m. 

11 Thursday, November 19, 2015 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 William Jefferson Clinton East Building 

18 1201 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 

19 Washington, DC 20004 

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1 EPA PANEL: 

2 MORNING SESSION: 

3 PAUL GUNNING, Panel Chair 

4 LORA STRINE 

5 TONI JONES 

6 

7 AFTERNOON SESSION: 

8 MARK RUPP, Panel Chair, Deputy Associate 

9 Administrator, EPA Office of Intergovernmental 

10 Relations 

11 BRIAN FISHER, EPA Office of Air and Radiation 

12 CHRIS SHERRHY, EPA Office of Air and Radiation 

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1 M O R N I N G S E S S I O N 

2 C O N T E N T S 

3 PAGE 

4 INTRODUCTION - PAUL GUNNING 9 

5 

6 PUBLIC COMMENTS 

7 ELIZABETH BEARDSLEY, Senior Policy Counsel, 17 

8 U.S. Green Building Council 

9 CAROLYN SLAUGHTER, Director of Environmental 23 

10 Policy, American Public Power Association 

11 DEBORAH GRAFF, Ohio Valley Environmental 28 

12 Coalition and Keeper of the Mountains 

13 WENDY JOHNSTON, Ohio Valley Environmental 30 

14 Coalition and Keeper of the Mountains 

15 QUINN WEBER, Environmental & Health Program 35 

16 Intern, Physicians for Social Responsibility 

17 LEAH RAMPY, Member, Virginia League of 39 

18 Conservation Voters Action Team and 

19 Unitarian Universalist Church, Arlington, VA 

20 ELANA ORBUCH, Interfaith Power and Light 43 

21 CHARLES C. YODER, His own behalf 47 

22 OLIVIA ALPERSTEIN, Progressive Congress 51 
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1 C O N T E N T S 

2 PAGE 

3 WILFRED CANDLER, His own behalf 54 

4 KENNA HAWES, Sierra Club 57 

5 SARAH BUCCI, Director, Environment Virginia 65 

6 CHRISTY LEAVITT, Environment Maryland 69 

7 MARGIE ALT, Director, Environment America 73 

8 CARRIE ANNAND, Vice-President, External 79 

9 Affairs, Biomass Power Association, D.C. 

10 WALTON SHEPHERD, Natural Resources Defense 86 

11 Council 

12 BARBARA WEINSTEIN, Director, Commission on 89 

13 Social Action of Reformed Judaism and the 

14 Associate Director of the Religious Action 

15 Center of Reformed Judaism 

16 RUTH ANN NORTON, President and CEO, Green and 94 

17 Healthy Homes Initiative 

18 JEAN STEWART, Her own behalf 100 

19 DR. SAMANTHA AHDOOT, Fellow of American 102 

20 Academy of Pediatrics 

21 STEFAN KOESTER, Alliance for Industrial 107 

22 Efficiency 
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1 C O N T E N T S 

2 PAGE 

3 SHELLY LEE, Intern, We Act for 113 

4 Environmental Justice 

5 Kerene Tayloe, Federal Policy Associate, 118 

6 We Act for Environmental Justice 

7 ETHAN HANDELMAN, Vice-President for Policy 122 

8 Advocacy, National Housing Conference 

9 FRANK SWIGONSKI, Advanced Energy Economy 129 

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1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 

2 C O N T E N T S 

3 PAGE 

4 INTRODUCTION - MARK RUPP 136 

5 

6 PUBLIC COMMENTS 

7 PAUL CIERO, President, Industrial Consumers 144 

8 of America 

9 HAO-LI-LOH, Her own behalf 149 

10 KEARA HOBAN-WEINSTEIN, Her own behalf 154 

11 ELLEN VAUGHAN, Environmental & Energy Study 157 

12 Institute 

13 BARBARA GOTTLIEB, Director for Environment 161 

14 and Health, Physicians for Social 

15 Responsibility 

16 TYSON MILLER, Director of Programs, Dogwood 166 

17 Alliance 

18 JALONNE WHITE-NEWSOME, Director of Policy, 172 

19 We Act for Environmental Justice 

20 SETH HEALD, Retired Attorney, Working on 177 

21 Master of Science & Energy Policy 

22 JULIAN MOCINE-McQUEEN, Green For All 182 
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1 C O N T E N T S 

2 PAGE 

3 ELIZABETH NORCROSS, Director, Center for 187 

4 for Spirituality & Nature; Board Chair for 

5 Regional Interfaith Power and Light 

6 DAVID KARPAY, On His Own Behalf 192 

7 JAMES CHEN, On His Own Behalf 198 

8 MARY MARTIN, U.S. Chamber of Commerce 203 

9 SUSAN STILLMAN, On Her Own Behalf 210 

10 KATIE PLOWRIGHT, On Her Own Behalf 215 

11 SARAH SAYLOR, Earth Justice 218 

12 JON COOPER, On His Own Behalf 222 

13 ADAM HASZ, Sustain Us 228 

14 KIM NOBLE, Director, National Partnerships 232 

15 for Green for All 

16 MIKE SANDLER, Co-Founder, Center for Climate 234 

17 Protection, CarbonShare.org website 

18 JAMES (JAY) DUFFY, Associate Attorney, Clean 239 

19 Air Task Force 

20 DUSTIN WHITE, On His Own Behalf 246 

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1 C O N T E N T S 

2 PAGE 

3 MALIN MOENCH, Utah Physicians for a Healthy 250 

4 Environment 

5 BEN LEVITAN, Environmental Defense Fund 256 

6 INGRID SCHWINGLER, Policy & Regulatory 261 

7 Coordinator, Grid Alternatives 

8 JENNIFER ABEL, On Her Own Behalf 265 

9 COURTENAY LEWIS, Sierra Club 267 

10 JOE SLOVINEC, Sierra Club 271 

11 MICHELE ROBERTS, Co-Coordinator, 281 

12 Environmental Justice Health Alliance 

13 GARY ROSSI, On His Own Behalf 284 

14 SHANNON HEYCK-WILLIAMS, Senior Manager, 289 

15 Climate & Energy Policy, National Wildlife 

16 Federation 

17 JESSICA PAPALIA, On Her Own Behalf 293 

18 ERICA WAGNER, On Her Own Behalf 298 

19 DAVID O'LEARY, On His Own Behalf 301 

20 TIM HARLAN-MARKS, On His Own Behalf 302 

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S 

2 M O R N I N G S E S S I O N 

3 MR. GUNNING: Good morning, everyone. 

4 Good morning and welcome to the public hearing on 

5 the Proposed Federal Plan and Model Rule for the 

6 Clean Power Plan for existing power plants. 

7 My name is Paul Gunning. I'm the 

8 Director of the Climate Change Division here at 

9 EPA in our Office of Air and Radiation. 

10 I'll be chairing today's public hearing, 

11 and I really appreciate your attendance today. 

12 Joining me today on the panel -- to my 

13 left is Toni Jones, and to my right is Laura 

14 Strine, also from EPA. 

15 I'll start with a few opening remarks, 

16 and then I'll go through some logistics, and then 

17 -- and then we'll commence with the hearing. 

18 Fossil fuel fired power plants are the 

19 largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions 

20 or carbon pollution accounting for 31 percent of 

21 U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing 

22 carbon pollution from power plants is an 
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1 essential step in lessening the impacts of 

2 climate change and producing a more certain 

3 future for our environment, our health, and for 

4 future generations. 

5 We are here today to listen to your 

6 comments on the EPA's proposed Federal Plan and 

7 Model Rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 

8 existing power plants. 

9 On October 23rd, 2015, EPA published in 

10 the Federal Register its Proposed Federal Plan to 

11 implement emission guidelines for power plants 

12 under Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. 

13 EPA's 111(d) rule, known as the Clean 

14 Power Plan takes effect on December 22nd, 2015, 

15 and applies to affected power plants that began 

16 construction on or before January 8th, 2014. 

17 The Federal Plan and Model Trading Rules 

18 demonstrate a readily available path toward -- 

19 forward for Clean Power Plan implementation and 

20 present a flexible, affordable, implementation 

21 options for states. 

22 The Model Rule provides a cost effective 
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1 pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 

2 the EPA and make it -- makes it easy for states 

3 and power plants to use emissions trading. It 

4 does the heavy lifting for states who may choose 

5 to use a model rule as their state plan. The EPA 

6 would implement the Federal Plan in any state 

7 that does not submit an approvable plan. 

8 This proposal includes four discreet 

9 proposed actions. First, a rate-based federal 

10 plan for each state with affected EGUs, a mass11 based federal plan for each state with affected 

12 EGUs, a rate-based model trading rule for 

13 potential use by any state, and finally, a mass14 based model trading rule for potential use by any 

15 state. 

16 The proposed federal plans will achieve 

17 the same levels of emissions performance as 

18 required of state plans under the Clean Power 

19 Plan. The federal plans will be finalized only 

20 for those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 

21 determines have failed to submit an approvable 

22 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 
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1 in the emissions guidelines. 

2 In those states where a federal plan may 

3 be required, a final federal plan will implement 

4 the same emission guidelines for affected power 

5 plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 

6 would not require additional control requirements 

7 or impose additional costs. 

8 Even where a federal plan is put in place 

9 for a particular state, that state will still be 

10 able to submit a plan which, if approved, will 

11 allow the state and its sources to exit the 

12 federal plan. States may take delegation of 

13 administrative aspects of the federal plan in 

14 order to become the primary implementers or 

15 submit partial state plans in order to take over 

16 the implementation of a portion of the federal 

17 plan. 

18 States operating under a federal plan may 

19 adopt complimentary measures outside of that plan 

20 to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 

21 benefit of power generators and to consumers. 

22 The proposal also includes, as a Model 
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1 Rule for those states that are developing their 

2 own state plans. The EPA intends to finalize 

3 both the rate-based and mass-based model trading 

4 rules in the summer of 2016. 

5 A state program that adheres to the model 

6 trading rule provisions specified in this 

7 rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 

8 approvable. There are stand-alone portions of 

9 the model trading rule such as the evaluation, 

10 measurement, and verification procedures for 

11 emission rate credits that would be approvable 

12 even if the state adopt an approach that differs 

13 in other respects from the model rule. 

14 In addition, the proposal contains a 

15 finding that if it is necessary or appropriate to 

16 implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 

17 affected EGUs located in Indian Country. CO2

18 emissions performance rates for these facilities 

19 were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 

20 Information on how the EPA will reach out 

21 to communities throughout the comment period and 

22 an overview of the actions that the EPA is taking 
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1 to ensure that vulnerable communities are not 

2 being disproportionately impacted by this 

3 rulemaking. 

4 If you would like more details on the 

5 proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 

6 the registration desk outside. 

7 But before we get started today, I would 

8 like to go through a few housekeeping items and 

9 ground rules that will help make today's hearing 

10 run more smoothly. 

11 First, please be sure you have checked in 

12 at the registration desk even if you are not 

13 planning to speak today. And if you are signed 

14 up to speak online or by phone but haven't told 

15 us that you are here, please step out to the 

16 registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 

17 you have arrived. 

18 I will call speakers up in pairs. When 

19 your name is called, please come to the speaker's 

20 table right here in the front. When I call you 

21 to speak, please state your name clearly, spell 

22 it for the court reporter. Your comments will be 
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1 transcribed and included in the record of 

2 comments on the proposed rule. And also, please 

3 speak directly into the mike as closely as 

4 possible so that all can hear. 

5 You will have five minutes to give your 

6 comments. We will have a timer here. We have a 

7 timer here at the front desk, and there's a light 

8 to help you know how much time you have to speak. 

9 When the light turns from green to yellow, that 

10 means you have one minute remaining. When it 

11 turns red, that's a signal that you are at five 

12 minutes and it is time to stop. 

13 When you are finished speaking, please 

14 remain at the table until the person next to you 

15 has completed his or her testimony. The folks 

16 here, myself included and the folks from EPA, are 

17 here to listen to you today; however, a panel 

18 member may ask questions to clarify. I will then 

19 call up the next pair of speakers and we will 

20 move forward. 

21 If you've brought a written copy of your 

22 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 
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1 registration table outside before you leave 

2 today. We'll put any written comments submitted 

3 today in the official docket for the proposed 

4 rule. 

5 We also have comment cards available at 

6 the registration desk outside. If you would like 

7 to submit additional written comments, you can do 

8 so today. If you want to comment in writing at a 

9 later time, stop by the materials table near the 

10 registration desk and pick up a copy of 

11 instructions for submitting those written 

12 comments. Those comments must be received by the 

13 agency by January 21st, 2016. 

14 Let me assure you that the EPA gives just 

15 as much consideration to comments that we receive 

16 in writing as we do comments that we receive at 

17 public hearings like the one this morning. So if 

18 you have more comments that you would like to 

19 provide EPA, please submit them by the comment 

20 deadline I noted above. Your comments will be 

21 reviewed. 

22 If you have any questions during the day 
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1 through the hearing, please see the staff at the 

2 registration desk, and someone will assist you. 

3 They can provide information about logistics, 

4 restrooms, and things of that nature. 

5 Again, on behalf of EPA, thank you again 

6 for coming today to share your comments with us 

7 on the proposal. We look forward to hearing 

8 more. And let's begin. 

9 So, as I stated, let's call the first two 

10 speakers that we have registered for today. The 

11 first, Elizabeth Beardsley, please approach the 

12 table, and Carolyn Slaughter. 

13 Good morning. 

14 MR. GUNNING: Elizabeth Beardsley, please 

15 begin. The floor is yours. 

16 MS. BEARDSLEY: Thank you. My name is 

17 Elizabeth Beardsley, B-E-A-R-D-S-L-E-Y. I am the 

18 Senior Policy Counsel at the U.S. Green Building 

19 Council. Thank you for the opportunity to speak 

20 this morning. 

21 USGBC is an NGO with the mission of 

22 transforming our built environment to one that is 
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1 sustainable and supportive of human health. We 

2 have more than 12,000 member organizations, and 

3 there are more than 200,000 lead professionals 

4 around the globe. 

5 Our flagship green building 

6 certification, LEED, helps drive energy efficient 

7 in resource conserving buildings such as this one 

8 I'm in -- and provides assurance from third-party 

9 certification. 

10 We are a member of several coalitions 

11 engaging on the Clean Power Plan, including the 

12 Third-Party Delivered Energy Efficiency Coalition 

13 as well as an ad hoc Green Affordable Housing 

14 Group. 

15 USGBC has supported the Clean Power Plan 

16 since its proposal, and we thank EPA for its 

17 leadership and your hard work and dedication. 

18 Our members and the Green Building 

19 community knows that the transformation to a 

20 clean power economy is not just possible, but 

21 it's an imperative to secure our future. 

22 We offer several comments today and will 
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1 also submit comments in the docket. 

2 Regarding energy efficiency, study after 

3 study documents that energy efficiency provides 

4 the least cost path to compliance and is the 

5 lowest cost resource available to states. 

6 Buildings represent 70 percent of retail 

7 electricity use in the U.S., and they must be 

8 part of the solution. 

9 Fortunately, whole building efficiency is 

10 a proven method and has well -- well established 

11 M and V available to it as well. 

12 Energy efficiency can be delivered via 

13 utility programs, trading schemes, state 

14 policies, and private entities. And third party 

15 energy efficiency such as through energy 

16 performance contracts and above-code 

17 certification can deliver effective, verified 

18 efficiency without tying up public funds. 

19 We urge EPA to take all steps available 

20 to ensure that any states under a Federal Plan or 

21 adopting the Federal Plan as a model are 

22 maximally using energy efficiency in their 
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1 approaches. 

2 Our understanding is that the Federal 

3 Plan for mass-based states would not necessarily 

4 advocate -- allocate allowances to efficiency. 

5 So we recommend EPA fully develop the Federal 

6 Plan and trading rule to incorporate registries. 

7 Regarding the clean energy -- the Clean 

8 Energy Incentive Program, we support the goal of 

9 benefitting low income communities, particularly 

10 affordable and low income housing. 

11 And with that I will conclude and we'll 

12 submit our question -- our further comments in 

13 the record. 

14 That seemed really fast, but -- 

15 MR. GUNNING: You actually have two 

16 additional minutes. Go ahead. 

17 MS. BEARDSLEY: Okay. I was wondering. 

18 MR. GUNNING: For some reason it's set 

19 for three. Go ahead. 

20 MS. BEARDSLEY: I didn't think I was that 

21 far off. Thank you. 

22 MR. GUNNING: Apologies for that. 
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1 MS. BEARDSLEY: That's all right. 

2 We're concerned that the federal -- the 

3 Proposed Federal Plan's lack of allocations to 

4 energy efficiency beyond the CEIP period could 

5 actually disincentivize use of the CEIP for 

6 energy efficiency in low income communities. The 

7 reason is that some of the most significant 

8 investments needed, the whole building or deeper 

9 retrofit approaches, they'll need assurance that 

10 beyond Years 1 and 2 of their payback period that 

11 they'll be able to get credits and value back. 

12 So, without the assurance and tying the 

13 Clean Energy Incentive Program to the future 

14 years' energy efficiency, there could be a gap 

15 there that will not help realize a potential of 

16 the CEIP as intended. 

17 Therefore, we urge EPA to provide for a 

18 registry and allow energy efficiency to compete 

19 for allowances in the full compliance period on a 

20 level playing field. And to the extent that 

21 remaining allowances are auctioned under a 

22 federal plan, that revenue generated should be 
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1 prioritized for low income residents and 

2 communities as a public benefit. 

3 We also suggest that EPA include 

4 strategies to support community solar and 

5 distributed generation to the benefit of low and 

6 moderate income communities. 

7 EPA should ensure that the Final Federal 

8 Plan provides a system for allocation of 

9 allowances to efficiency -- that ensures that 

10 efficiency, whether delivered by a utility state 

11 program or third party will be a default included 

12 element in every state with a federal pan. 

13 MR. GUNNING: Fifteen seconds. Go ahead. 

14 MS. BEARDSLEY: I'm sorry. 

15 MR. GUNNING: Please. I apologize for 

16 this. Go ahead. 

17 MS. BEARDSLEY: That's okay. 

18 And lastly, we support the proposal being 

19 developed by an ad hoc coalition for a registry20 based system that would be part of the federal 

21 system under a mass-based approach. 

22 MR. GUNNING: Okay. Great. 
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1 MS. BEARDSLEY: Thank you. 

2 MR. GUNNING: Okay. Again, apologies for 

3 the -- 

4 MS. BEARDSLEY: That's okay. 

5 MR. GUNNING: -- the glitch, but thank 

6 you for your comments. 

7 Any clarifying questions from the panel? 

8 No? Thank you, Elizabeth, I appreciate that. 

9 MS. BEARDSLEY: Thank you. 

10 MR. GUNNING: Okay. Our next speaker is 

11 Carolyn Slaughter. 

12 MS. SLAUGHTER: Thank you. 

13 MR. GUNNING: Please begin. 

14 MS. SLAUGHTER: My name is Carolyn 

15 Slaughter, C-A-R-O-L-Y-N, S-L-A-U-G-H-T-E-R, and 

16 I am the Director of Environmental Policy for the 

17 American Public Power Association. 

18 I'd like to thank EPA for the opportunity 

19 to speak during this public hearing on the 

20 Agency's draft Federal Plan and Model Trading 

21 Rules. 

22 APPA is the national service organization 
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1 representing the interest of not-for-profit 

2 public utilities throughout the United States. 

3 More than 2,000 public utility customers are part 

4 of our membership. We provide over 15 percent of 

5 all kilowatt hour sales for electricity to 

6 consumers and do business in every state except 

7 for Hawaii. 

8 All of APPA utility members are load9 serving entities with the primary goal of 

10 providing customers in the communities they serve 

11 with reliable electric power and energy at the 

12 lowest cost consistent with good environmental 

13 stewardship. This orientation aligns the 

14 interests of APPA utility members with the long15 term interest of residents and businesses in 

16 their communities. Collectively, APPA members 

17 and the public utilities serve more than 48 

18 million customers. 

19 U.S. EPA presumes that the national and 

20 regional emissions trading markets will arise to 

21 meet the carbon dioxide goals outlined in the 

22 final emission guidelines, finalized on August 
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1 the 3rd. 

2 To that end I'd like to touch upon two 

3 main points that are critical, we feel, for 

4 affected utilities and states that participated 

5 in the emissions trading scheme. Number one is 

6 the proposed Federal Plan and Model Trading Rule 

7 must be finalized in a manner that supports the 

8 broadest possible emissions reductions possible. 

9 Number two, states and affected sources 

10 must seek the most cost effective means to 

11 mitigate any increase in the cost of electricity 

12 to consumers as a result of fully implementing 

13 EPA's final emission guidelines. We believe one 

14 means to create a very deep and wide emissions 

15 trading program is to provide equity between the 

16 treatment of energy efficiency and renewable 

17 energy in a Federal Plan or in a Model Trading. 

18 In addition, all types of renewable 

19 sources should be eligible to participate in 

20 EPA's proposed Clean Energy Incentive Program. 

21 Publicly owned utilities have well established 

22 behind the meter renewable energy programs that 
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1 can be utilized to meet the respective state CO2 

2 emission reduction goals. 

3 EPA should consider all energy efficiency 

4 and renewable energy projects that commence 

5 before 2018 to further incentivize CO2 reductions. 

6 Delaying in the implementation of RE or EE until 

7 2020 and 2021 is inconsistent with the goal of 

8 reducing CO2 emissions. 

9 All compliance options must be available 

10 to states to ensure cost of compliance is 

11 affordable for consumers. The Energy Information 

12 Agency predicts the cost of electricity to 

13 significantly -- or to increase for consumers. 

14 The increase in -- the increase projected 

15 despite the deployment of the past decades of 

16 energy efficiency programs that helped to offset 

17 some of the increases in consumer bills. For 

18 public power utilities all of the costs were then 

19 passed on to the consumers in their monthly 

20 bills. 

21 Based upon a recent report by the 

22 Electric Reliability Council of Texas, ERCOT, 
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1 energy costs for consumers may increase 16 

2 percent by 2030 due to the Final Emission 

3 Guidelines only without accounting for the 

4 associated transmission upgrades, higher natural 

5 gas cost prices, procurement of additional 

6 ancillary services and other costs associated 

7 with the retirement or the decreased utilization 

8 of coal fired facilities in the ERCOT region. 

9 While at the same time we realize there 

10 are important pieces of the final plan -- excuse 

11 me, of the Federal Plan that are not yet 

12 finalized. Consumers still don't know the true 

13 cost of this particular regulation. 

14 EPA's carbon pollution emission 

15 guidelines for existing sources has the ability 

16 to transform the utility sector in an 

17 unprecedented manner. We look forward to working 

18 with the agency as we finalize the draft Federal 

19 Plan and Model Trading Rules and to ensure that 

20 it reflects the realities of the bulk electrical 

21 system. APPA will be submitting comments on the 

22 draft Federal Plan and Model Trading Rule. 
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1 And I thank you for your attention and 

2 time today. 

3 MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much. Thank 

4 you for those comments, and we look forward to 

5 your written comments as well. We appreciate the 

6 input. 

7 Any questions -- clarifying questions 

8 from the panel? No. 

9 Thank you both for your -- for your 

10 comments and your input. 

11 MS. BEARDSLEY: Thank you. 

12 MR. GUNNING: Let me now ask the next two 

13 registered speakers to please approach the table. 

14 Deborah Graff and Wendy Johnson -- Johnston. 

15 Good morning to both of you. Let's start 

16 with Deborah -- Deborah; is that correct 

17 pronunciation? 

18 MS. GRAFF: Deborah. 

19 MR. GUNNING: Deborah. Go ahead. 

20 MS. GRAFF: I'm Deborah Graff, 

21 D-E-B-O-R-A-H, G-R-A-F-F. And I come in support 

22 of the Clean Power Plan. 
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1 The Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition 

2 has made it possible for me to be here today. I 

3 also work with Keepers of the Mountains and 

4 Southern West Virginia to educate people about 

5 the health and environmental problems with 

6 mountaintop removal. 

7 I live in southern West Virginia, an area 

8 that desperately needs the EPA's help to move our 

9 state to a more healthful way to live. While our 

10 leaders seem to fight you on every step you take 

11 to improve our overall air and water quality, I'm 

12 here to tell you that they do not represent all 

13 West Virginians. 

14 I would like to beg you to require a 

15 strong Federal Plan for my state, one with 

16 compliance checks that can be enforced strongly. 

17 West Virginia does not seem able to take -- to 

18 take care of -- to govern itself when it comes to 

19 clean air and water. All you need to do is 

20 Google our January 2014 Water Crisis when we were 

21 all poisoned -- well, 300,000 were poisoned with 

22 MCHM and our water supply. It's almost two years 
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1 later, and our legislature has failed to pass 

2 laws to protect us from that happening again. 

3 West Virginians need the Clean water 

4 power -- Clean Power Plan to be strong in 

5 compliance and in the enforcement of such at this 

6 federal level. We won't do it at a state -- our 

7 leaders won't do it at a state level. So I'm 

8 asking you to make that really strong. 

9 And I thank you for allowing me to be 

10 here and to come here and to speak for the 

11 Appalachian people who are not represented by 

12 their leaders. Thank you. 

13 MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your -- and 

14 thank you for taking the trip and traveling to 

15 D.C. I appreciate your comments. 

16 MS. GRAFF: The big city. 

17 MR. GUNNING: Big city. Wendy? 

18 MS. JOHNSTON: Hello. My name is Wendy 

19 Johnston, W-E-N-D-Y, J-O-H-N-S-T-O-N. I am from 

20 West Virginia and I am able to speak here today 

21 because of the work of the Ohio Valley 

22 Environmental Coalition and Keeper of the 
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1 Mountains. 

2 I am speaking in support of the Clean 

3 Power Plan but with the thought of being mindful 

4 for the need for truly clean energy through wind 

5 and solar. I am a librarian, a farmer, a 

6 business owner, and a citizen of a state that has 

7 put its eggs in one basket at the expense of the 

8 health and well being of the people who live 

9 there for far too long. The -- the cost of the 

10 detrimental health effects of mining, hauling, 

11 and burning coal for the citizens who live within 

12 its mining communities far exceeds the economic 

13 benefits of mining that coal in these 

14 communities. 

15 While the use of coal for electricity 

16 nationwide has decreased, my home state of West 

17 Virginia still produces 95 percent of our 

18 electricity through coal fired power plants. 

19 Even with the facts that show how CO2 emissions 

20 contribute to climate change, our politicians and 

21 lawmakers continue to favor the coal industry 

22 over the health of our citizens, all while 
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1 convincing our citizens that we will be living in 

2 the cold and dark without coal fired electricity 

3 while the countries of Germany, Norway, Scotland, 

4 and many more are moving forward with programs to 

5 provide all energy use through wind and solar 

6 power. 

7 At home we are encouraged by our 

8 politicians to deny the existence of climate 

9 change to support an industry that has been 

10 killing our people for over a hundred years, by 

11 unsafe working conditions and the poisoning of 

12 our air, water, and earth. 

13 Those of us who speak out for the health 

14 and well being of our earth and people are 

15 subjected to ridicule, job discrimination, and 

16 acts of violence as well as the loss of our own 

17 good health. Even though the coal industry has 

18 taken a huge economic blow in Central Appalachia, 

19 coal mining underground still exists. And 

20 unfortunately, the total obliteration of the 

21 second most bio diverse forest in the world 

22 through mountaintop removal, coal extraction 
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1 still exists. 

2 The mountains in West Virginia and other 

3 central Appalachian states are subjected to 

4 explosions of millions of pounds of ammonium 

5 nitrate and diesel fuel every week for -- to 

6 reach thin seams of the coal below, coal that is 

7 layered within the geological layers of our earth 

8 to provide filtering of the water that originates 

9 in our mountains and travels from there to 

10 provide clean drinking water for millions of 

11 people in the southeast United States. 

12 In the year 2010 I marched with many of 

13 my fellow citizens and Appalachians and passed 

14 this building chanting EPA, do your job. Our 

15 communities were and still are suffering daily at 

16 the hands of the coal industry. I want to say 

17 that I support the Clean Power Plan, but I do 

18 urge you to move along with its implementation 

19 quickly. Do not believe the coal politicians in 

20 Appalachia who state that the people of our 

21 region do not support the efforts of the EPA. I 

22 am, frankly, ashamed that our state government 
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1 has attempted to sue the EPA for its attempts to 

2 protect the environment and health of people over 

3 the profits of a rogue industry. We live in the 

4 Congressional District represented by Evan 

5 Jenkins, formerly represented by Nick Joe Rahall. 

6 For the past several years a study has 

7 found that the district that I live in, that I 

8 raised my children in, has ranked last in health 

9 and physical well-being of its people. Over the 

10 last several years we have fought for last place 

11 with a Kentucky district represented by Senator 

12 Hal Rogers, a district where two of my children 

13 live and where my future grandchildren will 

14 probably grow up. 

15 These two districts also happen to be the 

16 areas of the largest amount of coal extraction in 

17 the U.S. We also include some of the poorest 

18 areas in America where millions and millions of 

19 tons of coal have been extracted and fueled our 

20 nation for many years. 

21 I want to thank the Obama Administration, 

22 the EPA, and our President for finally addressing 
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1 the issues of climate change and the poorly 

2 regulated use of fossil fuels. I also want to 

3 thank Larry Gibson, the Keeper of the Mountains 

4 who spoke to the EPA multiple times to bring the 

5 message of the struggle that the Appalachian 

6 people face every day at the hands of the coal 

7 industry. He is no longer with us. He passed 

8 away trying to save the mountain that he loved. 

9 Because of his great work and because I am 

10 somebody and I matter, Appalachia and her people 

11 matter. Thank you. 

12 MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your 

13 comments, and thanks also for coming to D.C. -- 

14 MS. JOHNSTON: Absolutely. 

15 MR. GUNNING: -- to share that with us. 

16 Thank you both. I'm going to move on to call the 

17 next two panelists up. Thank you. 

18 I'd like to ask Quinn Weber and Leah 

19 Rampy to please come to the table. Mr. Weber, 

20 we'll start with you. Please begin. 

21 MR. WEBER: Good morning. My name is 

22 Quinn Weber, Q-U-I-N-N, W-E-B-E-R. I am an 
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1 Environmental and Health Program Intern for 

2 Physicians for Social Responsibility, PSR, an 

3 organization made up of health professionals 

4 dedicated to protecting human lives from the 

5 gravest threats to health and survival. Climate 

6 change is most definitely one of those grave 

7 threats. 

8 We applaud the Clean Power Plan for its 

9 efforts to move America to a more sustainable 

10 future with renewable energy and lower carbon 

11 emissions. Climate change is by far one of the 

12 greatest threats to human health. And as the 

13 world gathers in Paris, it must work to heal its 

14 wounds from climate change. 

15 Humans harming one another has seemed to 

16 be a common theme in Paris the past few days, but 

17 instead of watching helplessly in horror, as I am 

18 sure many of in the room had to do on Friday 

19 night, a little less than two weeks we will have 

20 the chance to do some more healing in a different 

21 area at the COP21 Summit the nations of the world 

22 will sit together and agree on a plan to keep the 
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1 rise in global temperature lower than 2 degrees 

2 Celsius. Anything less than that will risk human 

3 lives due to the consequences of climate change. 

4 The Clean Power Plan will be integral to 

5 the United States' role in being a global leader 

6 in that regard. You, yourselves, have estimated 

7 that the Clean Power Plan will avert 90,000 child 

8 asthma attacks. We can go a step further though. 

9 As they implement the Clean Power Plan, states 

10 can avoid using natural gas and nuclear energy as 

11 well. 

12 Natural gas, through hydro fracking, 

13 conventional wells, and related infrastructure 

14 can cause the contamination of drinking water as 

15 well as a host of other public health conditions 

16 for those that live around the wells. 

17 In the longer term, methane is a 

18 greenhouse gas that contributes greatly to global 

19 warming. If the Clean Power Plan is to be 

20 successful, natural gas must not be included as 

21 an option in the States' plans. (Coughing.) 

22 Excuse me, I'm a little sick. 
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1 I should not have to go much into the 

2 dangers of nuclear energy as well. The risks 

3 have already been made apparent by -- in places 

4 like Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. 

5 While the Clean Power Plan needs to 

6 restrict what is harmful to health, it also needs 

7 to encourage what we do need. Solar is a 

8 renewable that has long been lauded as the future 

9 of energy production, but with the price of solar 

10 panels dropping lower while many start popping up 

11 in every class of neighborhood, it is probably 

12 time to admit the future is now for solar. 

13 I especially would like to point out that 

14 renewable energies could replace both coal and 

15 natural gas plants that often occupy low income 

16 communities. 

17 A solar panel does not pollute the 

18 groundwater of a community or decrease your 

19 property value. Wind turbines do not leak 

20 greenhouse gas, 86 times more potent than carbon 

21 dioxide, over 20 years. 

22 I want to leave you with a small 
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1 reflection on a bit of advice my mother often 

2 gives me: An ounce of prevention is better than 

3 a pound of cure. Well, we are well past an ounce 

4 of prevention. We certainly have the collective 

5 power to summon up a pound of cure. 

6 Thank you. 

7 MR. GUNNING: Thank you very much for 

8 your comments. Any clarifying questions? No? 

9 Thank you. 

10 Let me now turn to -- is it Leah? 

11 MS. RAMPY: Leah, yes. 

12 MR. GUNNING: Please. 

13 MS. RAMPY: Good morning. My name is 

14 Leah, L-E-A-H; Rampy, R-A-M-P-Y. 

15 I speak today as a member of the Virginia 

16 League of Conservation Voters Action Team and as 

17 a member of the Unitarian Universalist Church of 

18 Arlington, Virginia. I serve on the Steering 

19 Committee for the Interfaith Power and Light of 

20 D.C., Maryland, and Northern Virginia, an 

21 organization that supports hundreds of 

22 congregations in this area to save energy and to 
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1 respond to climate change. 

2 I also speak as the mother of two young 

3 adults, Andrew and Ana, and I believe that my 

4 children, your children, and all children have 

5 the right to a healthy future on this amazing 

6 planet. 

7 You have asked for our views and 

8 arguments concerning the Clean Power Plan. I 

9 strongly support its implementation for three 

10 reasons: Number one: Setting achievable state11 by-state goals to cut carbon pollution would 

12 begin to address the issue of climate change. 

13 2014 was the hottest year on record, and 2015 is 

14 likely to break that record. My children have 

15 never known normal weather. 

16 The burning of carbon-based fuels, 

17 especially coal has driven CO2 levels to new 

18 heights, bringing us extreme weather, droughts, 

19 floods, and rising seas. Our sister UU 

20 congregation of Norfolk, Virginia, knows well the 

21 increasing challenge of coastal flooding. They 

22 must schedule memorial services and other events 
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1 to conclude before high tide so that those 

2 attending will not be stranded. 

3 Climate change is one of the most 

4 critical moral issues humanity has ever faced. 

5 Our decisions to burn fossil fuels are impacting 

6 the supply of food and water around the world. 

7 This is an issue of social justice, and we cannot 

8 in conscience turn away. The force multiplier of 

9 climate change as we speak is continuing to 

10 deliver up an immense wave of climate refugees. 

11 And this is just the beginning of increasing 

12 global displacement. It is past time to slash 

13 our carbon emissions. 

14 Number two: The Clean Power Plan offers 

15 significant health benefits. According to Gina 

16 McCarthy, in 2030 we'll avoid up to 3,600 fewer 

17 premature deaths, 90,000 fewer asthma attacks in 

18 children, 1,700 fewer hospital emissions. This 

19 is a moral issue. 

20 Future generations may well ask when you 

21 found out that carbon pollution was contributing 

22 to asthma illness and death for the most 
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1 vulnerable, did you stop it. When you knew that 

2 low income people and people of color were 

3 suffering disproportionately from air pollution 

4 from the power plants in their neighborhoods, did 

5 you take action? 

6 I ask you to move with alacrity to 

7 implement the Clean Power Plan for the sake of 

8 these and all people. 

9 Number three: It's just common sense. 

10 The Clean Power Plan has been well vetted. 

11 You've already received millions of comments. 

12 You've made adjustments based on the input of 

13 states and utilities. It's estimated that by 

14 2030 net public health and climate-related 

15 benefits will be worth $45 billion. The Clean 

16 Power Plan makes sense. 

17 This administration and the EPA have 

18 shown courageous leadership with the creation of 

19 a fair, just, and workable Clean Power Plan. I 

20 encourage you to continue your courageous 

21 leadership throughout the implementation of this 

22 plan. We cannot flag on the journey to support a 
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1 livable planet for all people today and for years 

2 to come. Thank you. 

3 MR. GUNNING: Thank you. Thank you for 

4 your comments -- your thoughtful comments. 

5 Appreciate that. Any questions of clarification? 

6 No? Thank you both, appreciate it. 

7 MR. WEBER: Thank you. 

8 MR. GUNNING: Thank you for coming in 

9 this morning. 

10 We have two more speakers I'd like to 

11 call to the front. And in advance forgive my 

12 mispronunciation of this one -- Elana -- is it 

13 Orbuch, Orbuch -- and Chris Yoder, please. is 

14 Chris here? Okay. 

15 Good morning to both of you. Thank you 

16 for coming in today. Elana, please begin. 

17 MS. ORBUCH: Okay. So, E-L-A-N-A, 

18 O-R-B-U-C-H. Thank you for the opportunity to 

19 testify. My name's Elana Orbuch, and I work with 

20 Interfaith Power and Light. At Interfaith Power 

21 and Light we're working with hundreds of 

22 congregations, as Leah just said, of all faith -- 
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1 of all faiths across our region as they find 

2 their religious response to the climate crisis. 

3 According to my own Jewish tradition, it 

4 is our communal obligation to be critical when we 

5 see that societies or individuals are making 

6 mistakes. It says in Leviticus 19:17, you shall 

7 rebuke your neighbor. 

8 So when we recognize that our society 

9 developed because of cheap energy at the expense 

10 of the health and safety of the living beings on 

11 our planet, and in particular, the vulnerable, 

12 it's time to speak out. As you know power plants 

13 are responsible for 40 percent of carbon 

14 pollution in the United States, which is the 

15 leading cause of climate change. Carbon 

16 pollution leads to increased rates of asthma in 

17 children. It contributes to more frequent deadly 

18 destructive, cost effective or costly extreme 

19 weather events. And this is why we need to speak 

20 out and take concrete actions. 

21 At Interfaith Power and Light we work 

22 with communities and congregations of all 
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1 religious traditions to speak out and address 

2 climate and energy issues. The caring folk of 

3 these religious communities take action because 

4 they recognize that God loves all humanity, and 

5 we should act in the image of God to care for 

6 creation and others. Congregations and the DMV 

7 are leading and supporting the transition to 

8 clean energy through wind and solar panels -- 

9 wind energy and solar panels. 

10 And so many states people are ready to 

11 lead the way with their own clean power plans. 

12 these post cards -- right here (indicating) -- 

13 are signed by just a few of the many caring folks 

14 in Northern Virginia who are speaking out to 

15 Governor McAuliffe in support of a strong state 

16 implementation in Virginia that addresses climate 

17 pollution and accelerates our transition to clean 

18 power. 

19 These congregations are just one example 

20 of how individuals are speaking out, but it's not 

21 enough to have thoughtful socially aware 

22 individuals or groups taking action. We need to 
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1 begin leading as a nation on clean energy. 

2 The Clean Power Plan is the first step in 

3 a journey to adjust a sustainable world. And it 

4 needs to start now with the Federal 

5 Implementation Plan which provides the necessary 

6 security and guidance for individual states to 

7 create states' specific reduction plans. The 

8 Federal Implementation Plan puts a guaranty that 

9 we will never have to choose between healthy 

10 economies and a healthy community. 

11 Carbon pollution needs to be history. We 

12 need to aim for a cleaner, more just future for 

13 both our planet and our fellow human beings. We 

14 need this Clean Power Plan and its Federal 

15 Implementation to set an example to ensure we 

16 stop developing at the expense of our nation's 

17 health and vulnerable populations. 

18 We have a sacred obligation to be 

19 critical, and this criticism comes out of a deep 

20 care for creation. Criticism is not, however, 

21 sufficient. Words need to develop into action. 

22 The Federal Implementation of the Clean Power 
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1 Plan is an example of such action. Together we 

2 can protect our communities and the health of our 

3 children. 

4 Please start by taking action and 

5 approving the Federal Implementation Plan. Thank 

6 you very much. 

7 MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your 

8 comments. Any questions? 

9 Just -- also a reminder, please -- and to 

10 all panelists who are speakers, submit those post 

11 cards to the desk for the record, too. 

12 MS. ORBUCH: Great. 

13 MR. GUNNING: Be great. We appreciate 

14 every comment. 

15 Chris? 

16 MR. YODER: My name is Charles Christian 

17 Yoder, spelled Y-O-D-E-R. That's Yankee, Oscar, 

18 Delta, Echo, Romeo. And I appear before you this 

19 morning for two reasons. First, I'm a 

20 grandfather; and second, I'm a resident of the 

21 City of Baltimore, Maryland. 

22 As a grandfather I can expect my youngest 
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1 grandchild to live until at least the 2070's and 

2 perhaps much longer. Her children may well see 

3 the dawn of the 22nd century. 

4 Many people argue that the use of the 

5 years 2050 or 2100 as when -- as the deadline by 

6 which we have to take action to be -- effectively 

7 address global warming -- they argue that this is 

8 abstract, or they act as though it's abstract, 

9 unreal, imaginary. It's easy to rant and rage 

10 [sic] about policy decisions offering the 

11 prospect of inconvenient change as best and 

12 perhaps even economic dislocation. And I, by the 

13 way, don't accept either of those assertions. 

14 It's easy for demagogues to stir up 

15 opposition to benefits that will be realized only 

16 when the calendar turns to some distant and 

17 abstract date; but to me, those dates are 

18 immediate. They are embodied in the lives of 

19 people I know and love. Our warming planet is 

20 real. The temperature increases are measured. 

21 The greenhouse effect has been well understood 

22 for well over a century. The increased 
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1 greenhouse gas pollutants are a documented fact. 

2 Some people will probably argue -- 

3 certainly they do in public -- to address this 

4 problem with what I call the Egyptian River 

5 Solution, that is, to live in a state of de Nile. 

6 That's no solution at all. 

7 On the other hand, the Clean Power Plan 

8 is a concrete tangible step towards a real 

9 solution to a real problem. While more needs to 

10 be done -- and I would argue the plan needs to be 

11 strengthened and loopholes closed -- I do support 

12 the plan. The Federal Implementation Plan must 

13 be made final, and that plan must be vigorously 

14 implemented. 

15 The second reason I journeyed to 

16 Washington this morning is my residency in the 

17 City of Baltimore. Baltimore children suffer 

18 from a very high rate of asthma and other lung 

19 diseases, and this is no coincidence -- Baltimore 

20 hosts two polluting coal fired power plants. 

21 Right now Baltimore suffers from what economists 

22 call market failure. When I make a decision to 
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1 make electricity, I do not pay the full cost of 

2 that decision. It's not really a free market 

3 decision because part of the cost of the power I 

4 consume in Baltimore is paid by sick children and 

5 the infirmed elderly who are forced to use their 

6 lungs to filter the pollution from those plants. 

7 The Air Force will sometimes talk about 

8 collateral damage when they conduct an air 

9 strike. The Clean Power Plan does the opposite. 

10 I will explain. By forcing the owners of coal 

11 fired plants to clean up their act, reduce demand 

12 for power or switch to sustainable power 

13 generation, the Clean Power Plan will provide our 

14 nation, in general, and the people in Baltimore, 

15 in particular, with a collateral benefit -- the 

16 opposite of collateral damage. 

17 In summary, the Clean Power Plan and the 

18 Federal Implementation Plan should be adopted, 

19 and they should be vigorously implemented because 

20 they will benefit the people who embody our 

21 nation with benefits now and in the future. 

22 Thank you. 
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1 MR. GUNNING: Thank you. Thank you very 

2 much. Thanks for coming down from Baltimore to 

3 -- to join us today and to offer those thoughts. 

4 Any questions? No. Thank you both. We 

5 appreciate it. 

6 Let me now ask the next two speakers to 

7 -- to approach the table: Olivia Alperstein and 

8 Chandler Wilfred. 

9 Thank you both for joining us today and 

10 for taking your time out to come to offer your 

11 thoughts. Let's -- Olivia, start with you, 

12 please. 

13 MS. ALPERSTEIN: Okay. My name is Olivia 

14 Alperstein, A-L-P as in Peter-E-R-S as in Sam-T 

15 as in Tom-E-I-N as in Nancy. As you can tell, 

16 I've got a lot of practice on that. 

17 I am here representing Progressive 

18 Congress today. Thank you so much for the 

19 opportunity to speak on this very important 

20 issue. 

21 I, like everyone else in my organization 

22 believes that climate justice is racial justice 
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1 and that environmental justice is racial justice. 

2 I believe very strongly that the ways in which 

3 low income communities are being impacted are 

4 being felt throughout society today. 

5 I, myself, have lived most of my life 

6 below the poverty line. I can tell you from 

7 experience that the health issues that are 

8 affecting millions of people in millions of 

9 communities that do not have the resources to 

10 actually be here at this hearing today, who for 

11 many reasons cannot afford even to get on a bus 

12 her in D.C. and testify at this hearing because 

13 many of them are working for 12, 14, 16 hour 

14 shifts. I believe that those people are the 

15 people who are the most important people to be 

16 speaking out today because they are the people 

17 who are represented in hospitals. 

18 I live right next to five different 

19 hospitals, including the Children's Hospital. 

20 Several members of my community -- my neighbors 

21 -- have children who are suffering from severe 

22 chronic asthma. I, myself, suffered as a child, 
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1 and I can say that the experience of a parent who 

2 is trying to afford to care for their child but 

3 also cannot take off work days, cannot take off 

4 sick days, those are real environmental impacts 

5 on people but also on people's livelihoods. If 

6 you have people who are near a power plant whose 

7 children become sick, who they themselves become 

8 sick, they cannot afford necessarily to seek the 

9 treatment that they most desperately need. They 

10 also cannot afford the millions of dollars that 

11 are spent in lobbying fees, in consultant fees by 

12 the Clean Power Plans to try to convince people 

13 that these are solutions that they can hold 

14 behind. 

15 I think that we need a clean renewable 

16 energy future because people, particularly in 

17 communities of color, are the first people to be 

18 selected to make a sacrifice on behalf of the 

19 rest of us who want electricity, the rest of us 

20 who can afford to live in communities that are 

21 full of solar panels, communities where we can 

22 make the choice for ourselves to have a clean 
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1 renewable energy future. We must stand up and 

2 speak up for those who cannot afford to be here 

3 today and to testify. 

4 And more than that, I think that it 

5 is our responsibility as people who do have a 

6 voice to make sure that the plan that we do 

7 implement fully takes into account the fact that 

8 people of color are disproportionately affected 

9 by these plans and these changes that we are 

10 making. And not only that, that low income 

11 people around the world are feeling immediately 

12 the impact of our decision about how to use our 

13 energy. Thank you. 

14 MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your comments 

15 and for speaking for those that couldn't be here 

16 today. We appreciate that. 

17 Any clarifying questions? No, okay. 

18 Mr. Wilfred? 

19 MR. CANDLER: I am Wilfred Candler. 

20 W-I-L-F-R-E-D; Candler, C-A-N-D-L-E-R, like 

21 Chandler without the H. 

22 Hello. I am Will Candler from Annapolis. 
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1 I am retired and a member of the Climate Stewards 

2 of Greater Annapolis. I am making my statement 

3 as a person in a personal capacity. 

4 I'd like to congratulate the Supreme 

5 Court for recognizing that our air is in need of 

6 protection, and the Administration for directing 

7 the EPA to give the states great flexibility in 

8 proposing how they will meet the EPA guidelines. 

9 As I'm sure you know, prior to 1850 

10 humans had never experienced atmospheric CO2 about 

11 300 parts per million. And we are currently at 

12 404 parts per million and climbing. Nothing in 

13 our past experience assures us that anything over 

14 300 parts per million is safe. And judging by 

15 the prevalence of asthma and other chronic 

16 respiratory diseases, there is no reason to think 

17 current levels are safe. 

18 I regret to have to tell the EPA it does 

19 not have a Clean Power Plan. It has a less dirty 

20 power plan. And thank you for that. Let's call 

21 a spade a spade. 

22 The Clean Power Plan would take us back 
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1 to 300 parts per million in the atmospheric CO2. 

2 Ice-Core data tells that from the depth of the 

3 glacial maximum until 1850 atmospheric CO2

4 increased 100 parts per million, from 180 parts 

5 to 280 parts per million. Since 1850 we've added 

6 a further 124 parts per million CO2. So -- so, it 

7 should not be surprised if temperatures rise more 

8 than between the glacial minimum and 1850. 

9 That's linear thinking, but think about it 

10 especially if you're thinking of having children 

11 and grandchildren, something like that. 

12 States that persist in permitting the use 

13 of fossil fuel should, at the very least, be 

14 required to switch to natural gas. I know it's 

15 too late to plead for stronger limits, but I 

16 would seriously ask that the EPA guidelines be 

17 interpreted stringently and that EPA not hesitate 

18 to reject state proposals that fail to meet or 

19 exceed -- fail to meet or fail -- or anyway, 

20 don't exceed the guidelines. Thank you. 

21 MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your 

22 comments. Any questions for the two speakers? 
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1 No? Thank you both for taking the time today to 

2 come and offer your thoughts and comments. 

3 The next speaker I'd like to ask to come 

4 up is -- I believe we have one additional speaker 

5 -- Kenna Hawes, please. Good morning. 

6 MS. HAWES: Good morning. 

7 MR. GUNNING: Thank you for coming. 

8 MS. HAWES: Yes, thank you. So, my name 

9 is Kenna, K-E-N-N-A, and my last name is Hawes, 

10 H-A-W-E-S. And I'm here with the Sierra Club, 

11 but I'm also here because I am from Walkersville, 

12 Maryland. And I'm here to speak about the Clean 

13 Power Plan which I think has a lot of good things 

14 in store for Maryland. 

15 As a Marylander, I think that the 

16 approach of the plan is very sensible and also 

17 sensitive to states' unique strategic 

18 imperatives. And as a Marylander, I am also 

19 acutely aware of the effect that coal fueled 

20 power plants have on the health of people and of 

21 ecosystems. 

22 So, Maryland has seven coal fired power 
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1 plants, which according to a 2014 study, are 

2 responsible for about 30 percent of Maryland's 

3 significant carbon output. CO2 is, as we all 

4 know, a major agent in climate change. And as a 

5 Marylander, that's something I am also very aware 

6 of. 

7 My hometown is a small town in western, 

8 central western Maryland, just north of the City 

9 of Frederick. And it's a very agricultural area. 

10 There's a very strong farming culture that's been 

11 there for, you know, well over 200 years. And 

12 the area has certainly suffered from recent 

13 changes in climate. We've seen wetter falls and 

14 springs. We've seen much dryer summers. These 

15 have provoked a lot of concerns about whether the 

16 crops that have always been grown in my area will 

17 continue to be a viable option for those families 

18 who depend on them, and also a lot of concerns 

19 about where the water is coming from and how are 

20 we going to irrigate if the summers continue this 

21 way. 

22 Climate change doesn't just stop there, 
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1 of course, it also means a rising sea level; and 

2 that is a truly terrifying proposition for my 

3 state. Maryland has about 8,000 miles of 

4 coastline. And although my hometown, being in 

5 western Maryland, is relatively well insulated 

6 from the rising sea level, many of my friends and 

7 family who live in eastern Maryland, along with 

8 900,000 other Marylanders who live in that area 

9 are definitely at risk. 

10 So, eastern Maryland has a very rich 

11 history, but this legacy is certainly endangered 

12 by the rising ocean, which is actually already 

13 happening. Water in the Chesapeake Bay is rising 

14 at two to three times the rate of sea levels 

15 worldwide, and Maryland's islands and shorelines 

16 simultaneously are sinking, which means that the 

17 sea level along Maryland's coast is actually 

18 projected to rise about two feet by 2050. 

19 And if that happens, more than a couple 

20 of communities in Maryland will cease to exist 

21 entirely. Crisfield, which is Maryland's 

22 southernmost town, has actually already seen its 
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1 property values crash and its young people move 

2 away as flooding has increased dramatically over 

3 the past several years. 

4 Holland Island was once a thriving 

5 community, and it is now entirely under water. 

6 It sank about four years ago. Smith Island, 

7 which is the home of Maryland's state dessert, 

8 the Smith Island Cake, is also certainly at risk 

9 along with several wildlife preserves and other 

10 towns. And even larger cities like Baltimore and 

11 Annapolis will have to contend with flooding and 

12 sea level rise that could result in millions of 

13 dollars of damage and lost productivity in their 

14 very important ports. 

15 The threat is actually so immediate that 

16 Annapolis recently launched a Weather It Together 

17 initiative which presents a plan for dealing with 

18 climate change at the city level -- not even the 

19 national or state level but the city itself. 

20 And in addition to this climate change 

21 argument, there is a huge health and social 

22 justice argument to be made for this plan as 
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1 well. As Chris so eloquently discussed several 

2 minutes ago, asthma rates in Baltimore are 

3 incredibly high. They're about twice the 

4 national average. Twenty percent of children 

5 have been diagnosed with asthma. 

6 And there is a reason, I think, that my 

7 hometown doesn't have a coal burning power plant 

8 nearby, and yet the City of Baltimore has two. 

9 My hometown is very affluent and has a strong 

10 political voice. As Olivia argued earlier, there 

11 are many people from many communities who are not 

12 able to be here today who do not have such a 

13 voice. And I think on behalf of them it's really 

14 important to consider this plan and potentially 

15 even taking it further because this is really 

16 just a problem that we should have addressed a 

17 long time ago. 

18 So I'd like to end by noting that it's 

19 our responsibility as a nation to support the 

20 well being of all of our communities, whether 

21 this means protecting individuals' health or 

22 reducing our contribution to climate change at 
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1 the national level. 

2 I think that the EPA's plan is one of the 

3 most substantial forms of support that I've seen, 

4 and it is slated to reduce CO2 emissions by 30 

5 percent by 2030 which is a great start. I think 

6 it's really important to address climate change 

7 proactively while also improving air quality and 

8 supporting energy innovation. 

9 I also think it's critical that the EPA 

10 promptly issue a Federal Implementation Plan if a 

11 state does not comply with the Clean Power Plan. 

12 And I think that this is because all communities 

13 deserve to be included in a thoughtful assessment 

14 and overhaul of our nation's approach to energy. 

15 These changes really can't come soon enough. 

16 It's already too late for some communities, but 

17 there are still some that we'll be able to 

18 preserve. Thank you. 

19 MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for your 

20 thoughts. Questions? 

21 MS. JONES: I actually do have one 

22 clarifying point. 
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1 MR. GUNNING: Go ahead. 

2 MS. JONES: Thank you so much. And I'd 

3 also like to say thank you for the support that 

4 you just expressed for the Clean Power Plan. 

5 Two things that I just wanted to note 

6 that were echoed in several of the other 

7 testimonies earlier -- one being the need to 

8 strengthen the Federal Plan and the other was the 

9 comment about underserved or underrepresented 

10 communities. 

11 One, I would like to make a point to 

12 encourage support in those communities by having 

13 them to submit written comments. Although they 

14 were not represented here today in the public 

15 hearing, those comments could be submitted 

16 online. They don't have to be extensive, but to 

17 hear that voice and express those concerns allows 

18 the agency the opportunity to consider those 

19 comments. 

20 The second piece of the point I'd like to 

21 make is also in ensuring that when the written 

22 comments are submitted that the Agency receives 
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1 detailed specifics regarding approaches or ways 

2 for strengthening the plan so that we are also 

3 able to fully consider those suggestions as well. 

4 So, not necessarily a question but just 

5 wanted to kind of reemphasize that since that 

6 seemed to be a reoccurring theme in some of the 

7 testimonies we've heard so far this morning. 

8 MS. HAWES: Yes, helpful to hear it. 

9 Thank you. 

10 MS. JONES: Yes, thank you. 

11 MR. GUNNING: Thanks, Toni. Thank you 

12 again. Appreciate it. 

13 I think we are going to pause now. I 

14 think we're going to take a break for 15 minutes. 

15 Let's see. It's almost a quarter after 10:00, so 

16 let's -- let's say we'll reconvene at 10:30. 

17 Right now I think we have a lull in terms of the 

18 speakers, so it's an opportune time to take a 

19 break. So we will reconvene at 10:30. Thank 

20 you. 

21 (Brief recess.) 

22 MR. GUNNING: Okay. Good morning again. 
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1 We took a little bit longer than a 15-minute 

2 break, but we're back at 10:45. We will resume. 

3 I will now call the next two registered 

4 speakers up to the table, please. Can I ask 

5 Sarah Bucci and Christy Leavitt, please, to come 

6 forward. 

7 Good morning. How are you? Just -- just 

8 to remind you, we have five -- five minutes. So 

9 the lights will -- the lights will warn you. Get 

10 green, yellow, and then red -- 

11 MS. BUCCI: I don't think I'll take -- 

12 MR. GUNNING: -- to stop. 

13 MS. BUCCI: -- that long, but -- 

14 MR. GUNNING: That's okay. Let's start 

15 with Sarah, please. 

16 MS. BUCCI: Great. So, Sarah Bucci, 

17 B-U-C-C-I. I am the State Director with 

18 Environment Virginia. We're a citizen-based 

19 environmental advocacy group representing 20,000 

20 members and supporters in the Commonwealth of 

21 Virginia, and have, myself, spoken at many of 

22 these hearings, and many of our members have 
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1 attended and want to just to continue to express 

2 our strong support for the Clean Power Plan. 

3 In Virginia the two key reasons why this 

4 is so important to us is because, one, we are one 

5 of the most vulnerable states when it comes to 

6 the impacts of climate change; and so it's 

7 something that we need to tackle right away. And 

8 then second, it's a huge opportunity for our 

9 state to use the Clean Power Plan to invest and 

10 grow our clean energy economy. And those are the 

11 two things that are really most important to 

12 myself and our members. 

13 So, a recent Environment Virginia report 

14 found that Virginia is really lagging behind when 

15 it comes to clean energy across the country, so 

16 we are ranked 30th in the nation when it comes to 

17 solar power, while our neighbor to the south, 

18 North Carolina, is ranked 4th for the amount of 

19 solar PVs that we have installed. And we have a 

20 lot of the same climate and a lot of the same 

21 size as North Carolina, and so, for many 

22 Virginians, especially those in the solar 
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1 industry, it's really distressing to see that we 

2 could be doing so much more. 

3 And, in fact, the District of Columbia, 

4 in our report, had 10 megawatts of solar power 

5 installed just in the District at the end of 

6 2014, and Virginia had 12. So if you think about 

7 the land area, the District of Columbia is less 

8 than one percent of the area of the Commonwealth 

9 of Virginia. So, I think there's huge room for 

10 improvement and I see our implementation of the 

11 Clean Power Plan as a great way to grow this 

12 shining industry. 

13 I'm very proud to say that our governor 

14 has embraced the Clean Power Plan and has 

15 publicly supported the EPA's Clean Power Plan. 

16 And so, we are urging him to take implementation 

17 approach in our state implementation plan that 

18 really focuses on energy efficiency on clean 

19 energy like solar and wind. 

20 And so I hope that the rest of the states 

21 across the country take a similar approach and 

22 that the, you know, Federal Implementation Plan 
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1 really also offers that as the main incentive for 

2 states to reduce their carbon emissions. 

3 And then the first point that I 

4 mentioned, Virginia is incredibly vulnerable to 

5 the impacts of climate change which is one of the 

6 reasons why many of our coastal members in 

7 particular feel it's so important for the 

8 Commonwealth to act. Certainly, no city or 

9 state, or country is going to tackle this huge 

10 problem all on our own, but we need to do our own 

11 part. And as the state with a coast that's the 

12 second most vulnerable to sea level rise and sea 

13 level rise happening in the Hampton Roads region 

14 is happening twice as fast as the rest of the 

15 east coast, I think it's incumbent upon us to 

16 really be a leader and show that, you know, we 

17 want to do our part and aggressively take on the 

18 challenge of reducing our carbon emissions. 

19 So, in conclusion, I am incredibly 

20 excited about the opportunity that the Clean 

21 Power Plan offers to the Commonwealth of 

22 Virginia. We are very supportive of the EPA and 
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1 are excited to see states implement this across 

2 the country. Thank you. 

3 MR. GUNNING: Great. Thank you for those 

4 comments. I, personally, did not know that 

5 statistic about Virginia, and I am a resident of 

6 Virginia. So, thank you. 

7 MS. BUCCI: Yes, it's surprising. 

8 MR. GUNNING: Thank you for sharing that. 

9 Christy, please, the floor -- the floor 

10 is yours. 

11 MS. LEAVITT: Thank you. Good morning. 

12 I'm Christy Leavitt. The last name is 

13 L-E-A-V-I-T-T. And I'm here this morning on 

14 behalf of Environment Maryland, a statewide 

15 citizen-based environmental advocacy group. 

16 First, I want to thank EPA and President 

17 Obama for moving forward with the Clean Power 

18 Plan. Limiting global warming pollution from 

19 power plants is so important, and it's such a big 

20 step to deal with global warming and to be able 

21 to protect our children and future generations 

22 from the worst impacts of climate change. 
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1 Climate change isn't a problem for 

2 tomorrow. It's a problem that we need to be 

3 dealing with today and acting on today. We've 

4 already seen -- (bumped microphone) I'm sorry -- 

5 we've seen the impacts of global warming in 

6 Maryland and around the country. 2014 was the 

7 hottest year globally, and 2015 is looking to 

8 surpass that. 

9 Ninety percent of Maryland residents live 

10 in counties that have had and been hit by an 

11 extreme weather event, and, in fact, a federally 

12 declared disaster in the last five years. And in 

13 Baltimore County alone nine federally declared 

14 weather disasters have been there since 2010. 

15 We know that global warming is largely 

16 caused by carbon pollution. And in 2012 

17 Maryland's electric power sector emitted 18.7 

18 million metric tons of carbon pollution. So, 

19 must implement the Clean Power Plan as quickly as 

20 possible and invest in clean, renewable energy 

21 like wind and solar power. 

22 The good news for that is that Maryland 
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1 and the rest of the country have the potential to 

2 do just that. And Maryland -- Maryland has 

3 enough solar potential to power the state 10 

4 times over with just solar power alone. 

5 On wind, similar to our neighbors to the 

6 south, we have good potential to develop offshore 

7 wind farms. And energy efficiency offers an 

8 untapped potential to get more done using less 

9 electricity. It's our cheapest and quickest way 

10 to prevent global warming pollution. 

11 And Maryland is one of nine Mid-Atlantic 

12 and northeastern states that are part of the 

13 regional greenhouse gas initiative, also known as 

14 RGGI, which has cut power plant emissions by 

15 almost 50 percent over the last decade. And at 

16 the same time provides revenues for states, which 

17 those states that have largely invested in clean 

18 energy programs such as Energy Efficiency, these 

19 states need to continue to lead the way and to do 

20 even more. 

21 We need to move quickly towards hundred 

22 percent clean renewable energy. As EPA finalizes 
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1 the Model Rule and the Federal Implementation 

2 Plan, please ensure that these programs include 

3 provisions to support investments in clean energy 

4 -- wind, solar, and energy efficiency. 

5 And I have a few specific recommendations 

6 for the proposed Model Rule. First, the faster 

7 that EPA can finalize the Model Rule, the more 

8 certainty states will have as they develop their 

9 compliance plans and the more quickly they can 

10 move forward. And I also urge EPA to consider 

11 whether some components can be finalized shortly 

12 after completion of the comment period. 

13 Next, EPA must ensure that the affected 

14 power plants abide by enforceable limits on the 

15 emissions of global warming pollution by applying 

16 effective accountability measures. 

17 And then, last, EPA should apply the 

18 Federal Plan provision swiftly if a state 

19 declines to adequately carry out its 

20 responsibility. 

21 So thank you very much for the 

22 opportunity to speak. I definitely appreciate 
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1 the work of you-all and the work of EPA and urge 

2 you to move quickly as possible to implement and 

3 finalize the Clean Power Plan. Thank you. 

4 MR. GUNNING: Thank you. And thank you 

5 for the specific recommendations. We appreciate 

6 that. And thanks to both of you for offering 

7 different state perspectives. 

8 Any clarifying questions beyond that? 

9 No? Thank you both so much for coming in this 

10 morning. 

11 I'd like to ask up or invite up our next 

12 two speakers, Margie Alt and Annand -- Carrie 

13 Annand. Good morning to both of you. 

14 MS. ALT: Good morning. 

15 MS. ANNAND: Good morning. 

16 MR. GUNNING: Margie Alt, let's begin 

17 with you, please. The floor is yours. 

18 MS. ALT: Great. Thank you. I'm Margie 

19 Alt, A-L-T. I'm the Director of Environment 

20 America. We are a federation of state groups 

21 like Environment Maryland and Environment 

22 Virginia, and we have 29 state offices around the 
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1 country, about 1.25 million members, activists, 

2 and allies. And on behalf of all those people 

3 and many, many others, I'm here to commend you 

4 for your excellent work releasing the Clean Power 

5 Plan and for your combat pay worthy work sitting 

6 here today and listening to us. 

7 I would like to say that I know it's been 

8 a lot of work to get to this point. In addition 

9 to my role at Environment America I've co-chaired 

10 the Clean -- the Climate Action Campaign which is 

11 a coalition of major national environmental 

12 groups and 130 partners from all sorts of walks 

13 of life. Together we have helped give rise to 8 

14 million comments on behalf of the Clean Power 

15 Plan and the rule to also prevent new power 

16 plants from emitting carbon. 

17 And I know it's been a politically 

18 challenging path to get here, but I also know it 

19 has been a politically rewarding path to get 

20 here. And more than that, I think it's a great 

21 future for the country. 

22 Up until recently most of us have thought 
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1 of global warming as a problem that's going to 

2 happen somewhere to somebody else some day. And 

3 I have to admit, despite knowing the science, I 

4 thought that myself until about three years ago 

5 when Super Storm Sandy devastated my home town of 

6 Long Beach, New York, and my brother's family and 

7 home in nearby Baldwin, New York. 

8 And I wish I could say we were the only 

9 people affected, but unfortunately, literally 

10 millions of Americans are experiencing those same 

11 problems, whether it's the wildfires in 

12 California, or the recent flooding in South 

13 Carolina, or the droughts, or all the other 

14 impacts of climate here in the U.S. and around 

15 the world. 

16 And the truth of the matter is it's 

17 today; it's now; it's here' it's us which means 

18 we're the people to do something about it which 

19 is why I'm so pleased that the EPA is taking this 

20 dramatic action to implement the Clean Power 

21 Plan. 

22 I would like to add that I think the 
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1 Clean Power Plan is not only the best solution we 

2 have in the short term for limiting carbon 

3 emissions, but it is also the best way to 

4 leverage the clean energy economy and the fossil5 fuel-free country that we really need to build. 

6 It's our vision that implementing this 

7 plan swiftly will lead us just as swiftly to 100 

8 percent renewables, both for our power sector and 

9 for our transportation sector in this country. 

10 We have the wind power in this country to 

11 power the nation 10 times over. We have enough 

12 sun to power the country 100 times over. Every 

13 single state gets enough solar energy, or could, 

14 to power all of its uses if we just tapped into 

15 that. And, of course, energy efficiency remains 

16 the quickest, cheapest, cleanest megawatt we 

17 don't need to use. 

18 So, if we use the Clean Power Plan to the 

19 ultimate end of not only reducing carbon 

20 emissions but leveraging clean energy, this 

21 country will yet again lead the world in one of 

22 the most important problems facing us here at 
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1 home and abroad. 

2 So, with that, let me make a couple of 

3 specific recommendations. Number one, keep up 

4 the good work. It can be challenging, but I 

5 think this will not only be our legacy and the 

6 President's legacy, but it will put the U.S. back 

7 in a leadership position on the most important 

8 issue facing the planet. 

9 Number two, I hope you will use every 

10 tool in your toolbox to ensure that efficiency is 

11 the first option and renewables are the second 

12 option. We do not have time to reinvest in other 

13 fossil fuels besides coal. Even if they're 

14 cleaner than coal, they are not clean enough. We 

15 should use this as an opportunity to leap frog 

16 gas and get straight to 100 percent renewables if 

17 we use them to power our electricity sector now, 

18 very soon they will be powering our 

19 transportation sector, and this country can be a 

20 zero net emissions country. 

21 Finally, I actually hope you never need 

22 the Federal Implementation Plan. Working with 
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1 states all across the country, I truly do believe 

2 states are the best place to make these 

3 decisions. States have led on renewables; 

4 they've led on clean cars; they've led on 

5 efficiency, and they can lead on implementation 

6 here. 

7 That said, should any state any state 

8 fail to lead, I hope you will work swiftly to use 

9 a strong federal plan and not wait too long to 

10 use it. 

11 And finally, I hope that you will create 

12 a system for helping us and helping yourselves to 

13 evaluate that states and utilities actually meet 

14 the commitments they make in their plan and that 

15 you make that system as transparent as possible 

16 so all of us can be seeing how well states are 

17 doing at meeting the goals, how well they're 

18 doing at getting clean energy onto the grid, and 

19 how much they're doing to protect human health 

20 here at home, and then again allowing the U.S. to 

21 lead the world. 

22 So let me close by thanking you very much 
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1 for what you're doing, for your leadership, for 

2 your hard work, and for your vision in setting 

3 the U.S. on the right track. 

4 MR. GUNNING: Okay. Thank you so much. 

5 Thanks for the specific recommendations as well 

6 as the supportive comments. We appreciate that. 

7 Carrie? 

8 MS. ANNAND: Yes. My name is Carrie 

9 Annand. I serve as Vice-President of External 

10 Affairs at the Biomass Power Association here in 

11 D.C. BPA is the national voice for energy 

12 derived from wood and agricultural products. 

13 Biomass power is found in more than 20 

14 states, provides approximately 14,000 jobs, and 

15 about a billion dollars to the U.S. economy. 

16 Biomass is, in the words of Administrator 

17 McCarthy, as she toured a facility this week in 

18 New Hampshire, an important part of our low 

19 carbon future. 

20 The importance of healthy forests in 

21 fighting climate change is beyond dispute. 

22 America's forests are responsible for storing the 
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1 equivalent of a third of all carbon emissions 

2 caused by the entire transportation sector 

3 according to a report issued this week by 

4 researchers at the U.S. Forest Service. 

5 That same report noted, however, that the 

6 ability of forests to function as carbon sinks is 

7 directly related to their ability to maintain 

8 markets for wood products, including bio energy. 

9 That's why forests in the eastern United States 

10 where land is actively managed and used for a 

11 variety of products, including energy, are 

12 experiencing a net growth and carbon stocks are 

13 increasing. It also explains why some forests in 

14 the west, which are racked with forest fires, 

15 pests, and a lack of active management are at 

16 risk of becoming sources of greenhouse gas 

17 emissions. 

18 Not only do properly and actively managed 

19 forests serve as mitigation for climate change, 

20 but the fiber from these forests, when used for 

21 energy, displaces fossil fuels. 

22 Biomass feedstocks in this country are 
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1 vastly underutilized. The union of concerned 

2 scientists analyzed the potential a couple years 

3 ago and found that bio energy can provide up to 

4 20 percent of the nation's electricity demand. 

5 Co-firing biomass with coal would not only 

6 contribute to realizing the full potential of the 

7 resource but would also significantly reduce 

8 existing carbon emissions from the country's 

9 aging fleet of coal plants. 

10 A report by the -- the Rocky Mount 

11 Institute and Earth Partners last year have 

12 concluded that over 25 percent of coal used in 

13 the country could be displaced by co-firing 

14 biomass at existing coal plants. That is 

15 equivalent to 300 million tons of carbon dioxide 

16 annually. 

17 EPA has correctly concluded that biogenic 

18 emissions are fundamentally different from fossil 

19 emissions. EPA's decision in the Clean Power 

20 Plan to exempt biogenic emissions from facilities 

21 placed in service prior to 2013 from being 

22 regulated under the Clean Air Act should be 
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1 applauded. 

2 At the same time regulatory certainty is 

3 needed to begin to meet the full potential of 

4 biomass available in this country. If we are 

5 committed to preserving forests, its carbon 

6 sinks, and utilizing fiber to displace fossil 

7 fuel, biomass must play a key role. 

8 We make the following recommendations and 

9 will submit more extensive written comments in 

10 January. First, in developing the model rule, 

11 EPA should incorporate the role of qualified 

12 biomass for states that do not submit a state 

13 implementation plan. Within this framework EPA 

14 should show deference to existing programs that 

15 currently recognize biomass as a renewable 

16 feedstock. In every state where biomass 

17 facilities operate today, there exists a state 

18 renewable portfolio standard. And every one of 

19 these standards includes biomass as a qualifying 

20 source of energy. EPA should avoid doing the 

21 redundant work of rewriting what is and is not an 

22 approved feedstock. The agency lacks the 
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1 expertise to undertake such a review. 

2 Moreover, the final rule provides a 

3 definition of qualified biomass that gives the 

4 agency significant flexibility to defer to state 

5 programs. The standard is not zero emissions, 

6 rather, it should -- it must be shown that 

7 biomass is a method to control carbon dioxide 

8 emissions. 

9 If a state concludes that a feedstock is 

10 per se a renewable and should be favored over 

11 fossil fuels, that is the decision that the 

12 agency should respect. Otherwise, EPA will be 

13 rewriting state renewable policies which is 

14 fundamentally at odds with the state's -- with 

15 the agency's overall deference to states. 

16 Second, the tracking verification and 

17 auditing of biomass feedstocks can be achieved by 

18 relying upon existing state programs. Methods to 

19 assure that biomass is stored sustainably vary by 

20 state. Some states rely upon third-party 

21 certification while others involve state agency 

22 involvement. EPA should respect existing state 
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1 programs. 

2 As Administrator McCarthy said this week, 

3 states like New Hampshire have had centuries of 

4 understanding what sustainable forestry really 

5 means. In adopting the Model Rule, we urge the 

6 EPA to rely upon existing tracking verification 

7 auditing programs. 

8 We sincerely thank the EPA and 

9 Administrator McCarthy for calling attention to 

10 the role of biomass in the Clean Power Plan this 

11 week, and we look forward to engaging with EPA 

12 and state regulators at the biomass workshops 

13 that were announced earlier this week as well. 

14 Thank you. 

15 MR. GUNNING: Great. Thank you for those 

16 comments and for those recommendations. We look 

17 forward to getting your written comments as well 

18 in January. 

19 Any clarifying questions for the 

20 speakers? No. 

21 Thank you both for your time. Appreciate 

22 it this morning. Thank you for coming in. 
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1 My understanding is -- are there more 

2 speakers? No? Okay. So we're going to -- 

3 again, we'll pause until we have a critical mass 

4 for some additional speakers. 

5 It is now 11:05. We will resume, if we 

6 have speakers, at 11:15. Thank you. 

7 (Brief recess.) 

8 MR. GUNNING: Good morning, again, 

9 everyone. It's 11:15. We're going to resume 

10 now. 

11 And just as a reminder, I'll call two 

12 speakers up at a time. Everyone has five 

13 minutes. There's an aided timer here with colors 

14 to remind everyone -- green, go; yellow, warning 

15 there's a minute left; and then red is when we 

16 ask you to conclude your remarks. 

17 And, also, just a reminder, too, please 

18 -- after I call you up and you begin speaking, 

19 please spell your name so that we can record your 

20 comments appropriately. 

21 So let me ask the next two speakers to 

22 please approach the table. Walton Shepherd and 
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1 Barbara Weinstein. 

2 Good morning to you both. 

3 MR. SHEPHERD: Good morning. 

4 MR. GUNNING: Okay. So, Mr. Shepherd, 

5 let's start with you, please, if you can just 

6 restate your name and spell it, and then we look 

7 forward to your remarks. 

8 MR. SHEPHERD: Sure. Walton Shepherd, 

9 W-A-L-T-O-N; last name spelled S-H-E-P-H-E-R-D. 

10 Yes, I wanted to start with a statement 

11 of support for the Clean Power Plan and thank the 

12 EPA for another common sense regulation to 

13 address a pressing concern for -- for human 

14 health and economic well being, and also applaud 

15 most elements of the -- of what we're here today, 

16 the -- the Model Rule and the Proposed Federal 

17 Plan, but I will get into some specifics on -- on 

18 how that can be improved to assure that you 

19 maximize pollution reductions. 

20 The EPA should finalize a mass-based 

21 approach as the single approach for a Federal 

22 Plan and such federal plans should be linked to 
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1 the maximum extent possible to approve state 

2 plans subject to EPA designated tracking systems. 

3 The proposed Reliability Safety Valve, 

4 while laudable is unnecessary given a pre5 existing reliability assurance mechanisms via 

6 FERC's planning processes, including or 1,000 ISO 

7 -- pre-existing ISO reliability planning, NERC 

8 planning mechanisms, and perhaps most 

9 importantly, the inherent flexibility of the 

10 Clean Power Plan rule itself and mass-based plans 

11 generally. 

12 On the question of ERC eligibility, the 

13 EPA should not include biomass and should include 

14 distributed generation and EE measure subject to 

15 robust EM and V. 

16 The EPA's matching ERCs for low income 

17 energy efficiency programs should have a special 

18 set aside for low income, multifamily housing 

19 programs due to the high deliverability 

20 of EE savings there as well as ability to assist 

21 low income communities. 

22 On the mass-based side the EPA should 
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1 auction all allowances. Barring that, the EPA 

2 should distribute allowances to load-serving 

3 entities based on load served, load percentage 

4 served or percentage load served so that 

5 allowance values can ultimately go back to 

6 electric consumers. 

7 If the EPA allocates to generators, the 

8 EPA should not allocate based on historic 

9 emissions but rather, based on generation as 

10 proposed. 

11 As for set asides to address leakage, the 

12 proposed set aside for zero generating resources 

13 is not large enough to address leakage, and at a 

14 minimum should be doubled in size as you invited 

15 comment upon. Set asides should also be 

16 distributed to demand side energy efficiency 

17 measures also subject to EM and V requirements. 

18 That concludes my suggestions for 

19 improving the Federal Plan and the state measures 

20 approach, but I'll conclude with a statement that 

21 I do support your efforts and applaud you. Thank 

22 you. 
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1 MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much. Thank 

2 you for the support and appreciate the specific 

3 recommendations as well. Any questions? 

4 MS. STRINE: I do. Could you also state 

5 who you are representing today? 

6 MR. SHEPHERD: Natural Resources Defense 

7 Council. 

8 MS. STRINE: Okay. Thank you. 

9 MS. JONES: That's what I wanted to know. 

10 Thanks. 

11 MR. GUNNING: Thank you. 

12 Barbara Weinstein, please. 

13 MS. WEINSTEIN: Thank you. Good morning. 

14 I'm Barbara Weinstein, the Director of the 

15 Commission on Social Action of Reformed Judaism 

16 and the Associate Director of the Religious 

17 Action Center of Reformed Judaism. 

18 My name is spelled B-A-R-B-A-R-A, 

19 W-E-I-N-S-T-E-I-N. 

20 We advocate on behalf of the reformed 

21 Jewish movements, 900 congregations, 1.5 million 

22 congregants, and 2,000 rabbis across North 
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1 America. 

2 And I appreciate the opportunity to speak 

3 today in support of the Clean Power Plan, Federal 

4 Implementation Plan. This proposal reflects our 

5 nation's commitment to combating climate change 

6 and ensuring the well being of the most 

7 vulnerable populations at home and around the 

8 world. 

9 Our reformed Jewish values teach us to be 

10 stewards of the earth for the benefit of those 

11 with whom we share the planet today but also for 

12 future generations. We're inspired by Biblical 

13 commentary that teaches us God says to Adam, see 

14 to it that you do not spoil or destroy my world, 

15 for if you do, there will be no one to repair it 

16 after you. 

17 Yet we also know that the impacts of 

18 climate change are real and visible today. 

19 Nearly half of Americans live in areas where the 

20 air is unsafe to breathe, extreme weather events 

21 like those we saw recently in South Carolina, and 

22 Texas, and Oklahoma, droughts in California 
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1 highlight the wide range of challenges faced by 

2 Americans due to climate change; and similar 

3 challenges affect communities worldwide. No 

4 person, no part of our plant is immune, but we 

5 know that at particular risk our members are 

6 vulnerable populations -- the young, the old, the 

7 poor. 

8 Their struggle brings to mind the words 

9 of Leviticus 19: Do not stand idly by while your 

10 neighbor bleeds. And each of us has a 

11 responsibility to act personally to address this 

12 climate crisis. 

13 Our reformed Jewish movements support for 

14 the EPA's proposed Federal Implementation Plan to 

15 reduce carbon pollution from existing power 

16 plants is a reflection of that responsibility. 

17 As you know, 2014 was the hottest year on 

18 record, and predictions for 2015 show that this 

19 year is also on track to break that record. And 

20 carbon emissions are the main cause of increased 

21 global temperatures. So it's imperative for the 

22 U.S.'s status as a global leader that significant 
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1 action is taken to cut our carbon emissions, 40 

2 percent of which come from power plants. 

3 The CPP is a vital step in that 

4 direction, though the U.S. is home to only 5 

5 percent of the world's population, we produce 

6 about 19 percent of the world's greenhouse gas 

7 emissions. And the plan is also an opportunity 

8 to address the fact that the burdens of climate 

9 change fall disproportionately on marginalized 

10 communities. 

11 So the Federal Implementation Plan should 

12 promote equity in the allocation of limited 

13 resources and make long-term investments into 

14 those communities. The plan should also promote 

15 sustainability and stewardship, providing 

16 incentives for clean renewable energy and 

17 minimizing the harmful impacts of carbon 

18 emissions on land, water, and air. 

19 The Federal Implementation Plan can serve 

20 not just as a fallback but as a model for states, 

21 spurring them to achieve the most equitable and 

22 sustainable plan as possible. 
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1 As we approach the threshold of the 

2 International Climate Negotiations in Paris, the 

3 U.S. has to assert itself as a leader in 

4 international efforts to reduce global climate 

5 change with strong plans and a commitment to 

6 reduce our own greenhouse gas emissions and 

7 assist vulnerable populations. 

8 Implementing the Proposed Federal 

9 Limitation on Carbon Emissions will target a key 

10 source of carbon pollution and help address the 

11 impacts of that pollution. It also demonstrates 

12 our country's commitment to the health and well 

13 being of our planet and all its inhabitants. We 

14 applaud the EPA and President Obama's leadership 

15 in strengthening and enforcing limits on harmful 

16 carbon emissions and call on you today to 

17 implement an equitable and sustainable Federal 

18 Plan. Thank you. 

19 MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much. Thank 

20 you for your supportive comments. Any clarifying 

21 questions? No. Thank you both for your 

22 comments. Appreciate your time today. 
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1 MR. SHEPHERD: Thank you. 

2 MS. WEINSTEIN: Thank you. 

3 MR. GUNNING: Let me now ask Ruth Ann 

4 Norton and Jean Stewart -- please come up. 

5 Good morning to both of you. 

6 MS. NORTON: Good morning. 

7 MS. STEWART: Good morning. 

8 MR. GUNNING: So, let's please start. 

9 Ruth Ann Norton, can you please begin? 

10 MS. NORTON: Okay. Sure. I'm Ruth Ann 

11 Norton. I am the President and CEO of the Green 

12 and Healthy Homes Initiative. 

13 I am supposed to spell my name. R-U-T-H; 

14 second word is capital A-N-N; last name Norton, 

15 N-O-R-T-O-N. 

16 MR. GUNNING: Thank you. 

17 MS. NORTON: Okay. And I'm here to talk 

18 about the health measures and the health impacts 

19 of the Clean Power Plan and how we can drive 

20 investments in energy efficiency to address a 

21 dual crisis of affordable housing and health 

22 housing. 
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1 By removing carbon pollution and its 

2 associated harmful gases, the Clean Power Plan 

3 will produce substantial health benefits. The 

4 CPP is projected to protect public health by 

5 avoiding 3,600 premature deaths, 1,700 heart 

6 attacks, 90,000 asthma attacks, and 3,000 [sic] 

7 missed work days each year, not to mention that 

8 asthma is the number one reason that children in 

9 the United States miss school. 

10 The health benefits of the CPP are 

11 estimated to be approximately $34 billion, and I 

12 would direct you to work done by Oak Ridge 

13 National Labs on energy efficiency in housing 

14 recently released. These reported benefits are 

15 primarily associated with the reduction of carbon 

16 emissions, but the benefits go beyond this. 

17 Through the Clean Energy Incentive Program, CPP 

18 encourages states to pursue energy efficiency 

19 measures that benefit in residential sector and 

20 -- benefit the residential sector in low income 

21 communities. 

22 As a result, energy efficiency 
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1 investments, especially in low income communities 

2 has the potential to produce broader non-energy 

3 benefits for residents. It is -- it is cheap 

4 money for high return. 

5 In the search for more affordable rental 

6 housing, low income families commonly settle for 

7 older housing units, although older housing has 

8 lower rent costs, they are frequently in such 

9 poor condition that they are extremely expensive 

10 to heat, and, therefore, are still unaffordable, 

11 driving people out of stabilized situations and 

12 decreasing neighborhood stabilization. 

13 Many of the conditions that lead to the 

14 home inefficiencies also expose residents to 

15 environmental hazards that cause chronic and 

16 serious negative health impacts. The evidence 

17 shows that housing affordability and quality 

18 influences residents' physical and mental -- 

19 mental health outcomes. 

20 Low income populations living in 

21 unaffordable or poor quality housing frequently 

22 report inadequate insulation, building envelope 
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1 issues, and obsolete HVAC systems. Without 

2 adequate indoor air conditioning, vulnerable and 

3 susceptible individuals -- children and seniors 

4 -- are at greater risk of exposure to extreme 

5 heat and extreme cold, Number 2 and 3 on the 

6 United States Department of Housing and Urban 

7 Development's Health Risks in Housing. 

8 Thermal heat stress is linked with 

9 increased mortality rate among those with 

10 existing cardiovascular disease and pulmonary 

11 disease. Cardiovascular disease was a prominent 

12 factor in the excess death experienced during the 

13 1995 Chicago heat wave. During the heat wave 

14 victims were also disproportionately poor, 

15 elderly, and members of minority populations, 

16 which is why it is key to urge states to do 

17 energy efficiency in low income, multifamily 

18 housing where 50 percent of America's poor 

19 reside. 

20 Exposure to extreme cold has a similar 

21 negative effect on cardiovascular disease and 

22 mortality. Several cold episodes are associated 
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1 with increased cardiovascular disease, emergency 

2 department visits, and deaths for individuals 

3 with existing heart and kidney issues. Evidence 

4 also shows that extreme cold exposure is linked 

5 increased and myocardial infarction -- heart 

6 attacks -- and cardio -- cardiac arrest. 

7 Poor quality housing is also susceptible 

8 to the effects of humidity. Humidity, when 

9 combined with inadequate air conditioning 

10 encourages the mold growth in housing. Prenatal 

11 and early childhood exposure to mold is a serious 

12 risk factor for several respiratory illnesses, 

13 including asthma. Asthma is the most chronic 

14 condition among U.S. children, and unlike other 

15 respiratory conditions, asthma incidents are 

16 rising in the United States. 

17 Annually, asthma related symptoms caused 

18 14.2 million physician visits, 1.8 million 

19 emergency department visits, and 439 

20 hospitalizations all which are avoidable by 

21 improving energy efficiency in housing. Higher 

22 rates are observed among poor and racial ethnic 
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1 minorities. 

2 Energy efficiency interventions have the 

3 potential to substantially reduce the health 

4 effects associated with poor quality housing, 

5 improved home insulation and HVAC systems that 

6 maintain the thermal comfort of a home can 

7 mitigate the effects of thermal stress. HVAC 

8 usage has been shown to significantly reduce heat 

9 exacerbated cardiovascular disease, ischemic 

10 heart disease, heat stroke, diabetes, and acute 

11 renal failure. Even when controlling for socio12 economic factors, reducing domestic heat seepage 

13 through energy efficiency retrofits. For 

14 example, wall and attic insulation is the most 

15 effective means to reduce cold-related mortality 

16 and morbidity. Energy efficiency measures that 

17 control the indoor air climate can also reduce 

18 growth and proliferation on environmental 

19 conditions that contribute to asthma morbidity. 

20 Controlling indoor humidity inhibits mold 

21 growth with a turn in reduced asthma symptoms 

22 days. 
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1 In short, we have the opportunity to 

2 improve housing, and improve health, and save on 

3 health, and economic, and social costs. Thank 

4 you. 

5 MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for those 

6 comments. Any clarifying questions? Thank you 

7 again. 

8 Jean Stewart, please. 

9 MS. STEWART: Yes. Hi. My name's Jean 

10 Stewart, and that's J-E-A-N, S-T-E-W-A-R-T. And 

11 I'm basically a private citizen, deeply concerned 

12 about climate change as I recently learned on a 

13 trip to Glacier National Park, which is a real 

14 canary in the coal mine as far as climate change 

15 is concerned, I learned that it's actually more 

16 appropriate to talk about the climate 

17 destabilization even catastrophic climate 

18 destabilization. Also affecting that area out 

19 there were enormous wildfires fed by drought and 

20 climate change. 

21 As -- also, a person of faith like Ms. 

22 Weinstein, I believe -- you know, my personal 
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1 belief is that God loaned us this planet as -- to 

2 exercise stewardship, not to trash it for own 

3 immediate benefits. And I want to strongly 

4 support the CPP and congratulate EPA and 

5 President Obama for putting this forward. You're 

6 getting -- I'm sure already -- a lot of pushback 

7 from energy industries and so forth. And I just 

8 hope there are lots more people like me -- I'm 

9 also a member of the Sierra Club -- supporting 

10 you, the EPA, and the President on the CPP. 

11 While it bring some higher energy costs 

12 in the short run, in the long run, or even also 

13 in the short run, I think it will bring great 

14 cost savings in terms of better health, in terms 

15 of, hopefully, slowing down climate change and 

16 climate instability. 

17 The costs involved in dealing with the 

18 natural disasters that are fed by climate change 

19 are significant. We already see mass immigration 

20 and mass migrations caused by war but in part by 

21 climate, and that will only get worse. And, of 

22 course, that costs a lot, too. 
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1 And I would also like to point out how 

2 glad I am of the timing of this proposal because 

3 it's leading up to the Paris Conference, and it 

4 shows that this country which has always been 

5 kind of the leader and producing CO2 emissions 

6 into the atmosphere that we are actually willing 

7 to take concrete steps to reverse that and to 

8 tackle climate change. And I think this can only 

9 help in getting cooperation from the rest of the 

10 world. Thank you. 

11 MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for your 

12 supportive comments. We appreciate it. And 

13 thank you both for coming in this morning. 

14 Let me now ask the next two speakers to 

15 approach the table. We have Samantha Ahdoot and 

16 Stefan Koester. 

17 Good morning to both of you. Let's start 

18 with you, Samantha, if we can, please? 

19 MS. AHDOOT: Good morning. My name is 

20 Dr. Samantha Ahdoot. And that's A-H as in Harry, 

21 D as in David, O-O-T as in Tom. I'm used to 

22 saying that. 
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1 Good morning. I am a practicing 

2 pediatrician in Alexandria, Virginia, a Fellow of 

3 the American Academy of Pediatrics, and a member 

4 of the AP's Council on Environmental Health 

5 Executive Committee. In addition, I authored the 

6 AAP's October 2015 Policy Statement and Technical 

7 Report on Global Climate Change and Child Health 

8 which updated and reaffirmed our commitment to 

9 addressing climate change to protect the health 

10 of children. 

11 I'm speaking here on behalf of the AAP, a 

12 non-profit professional organization of 64,000 

13 primary care pediatricians, pediatric medical 

14 subspecialists, and pediatric surgical 

15 specialists dedicated to the health, safety, and 

16 well being of infants, children, adolescents, and 

17 young adults. 

18 And I'm here to express the AAP's ongoing 

19 support of the EPA's efforts to reduce carbon 

20 pollution from existing power plants and to 

21 highlight our strong support for the effective 

22 implementation of the Clean Power Plan as a 
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1 policy to improve child health. 

2 Children are not little adults. They 

3 have unique physiologic, behavioral, and 

4 developmental differences that amplify their 

5 exposure to environmental contaminants. Children 

6 breathe faster than adults. They spend more time 

7 outside, and they have higher levels of physical 

8 activity. All of this contributes to their 

9 disproportionate exposure to environmental 

10 contaminants. 

11 Additionally, as children grow and 

12 mature, their bodies can be particularly 

13 vulnerable to environmental exposures during 

14 specific developmental windows of vulnerability. 

15 Children disproportionately bear the 

16 burden of the negative health effects of climate 

17 change. According to the World Health 

18 Organization, greater than 80 percent of the 

19 current burden of disease due to the changing 

20 climate is in children under the age of five 

21 years old. 

22 Climate change is having broad -- broad-
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1 ranging health effects that are especially 

2 detrimental to vulnerable populations, including 

3 children. And these include weather disasters, 

4 increased incidents in Poleward migration of 

5 vector-borne diseases, increases in allergic and 

6 asthmatic disease, food and water insecurity, and 

7 increased heat-related illness. 

8 Given our current knowledge of the child 

9 health effects of climate change, a failure to 

10 take prompt substantive action would be an act of 

11 injustice to all children. 

12 Power plants, as you know, contribute 

13 approximately one-third of all U.S. greenhouse 

14 gas pollution, serving as a leading contributor 

15 to climate change. Reducing the carbon emissions 

16 of existing coal fired power plants represents a 

17 major step forward towards addressing a key 

18 component of climate change in the United States 

19 and stemming the tide of climate change and its 

20 myriad attendant negative health effects. 

21 Given the significant health effects and 

22 the major opportunity to affect change through a 
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1 focus on cleaner energy production, the AAP 

2 strongly supports the Clean Power Plan. When 

3 fully implemented in 2030, the Clean Power Plan 

4 would result in 3,600 fewer premature deaths and 

5 tens of thousands fewer asthma attacks, reducing 

6 the need for child hospitalization as well as 

7 missed school, and for parents, missed work. 

8 In the near term there are also 

9 significant co-benefits that have immediate 

10 effects on child health such as reduction of 

11 other pollutant emissions and secondary harmful 

12 ozone emissions. 

13 So, the AAP applauds the EPA for 

14 considering the unique vulnerabilities of 

15 children in its development and implementation of 

16 the Clean Power Plan. The AAP urges the EPA to 

17 continue working to implement the strongest 

18 possible carbon pollution standards for existing 

19 power plants to ensure that the rule provides the 

20 optimal possible child health benefit. 

21 Thank you for your time and for having me 

22 today to provide comments on this important 
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1 policy to protect the health of children. Thank 

2 you. 

3 MR. GUNNING: Thank you very much for 

4 your support and for your comments and bringing 

5 the children's health issue to the -- to the 

6 conversation. I appreciate that. 

7 Any clarifying questions? No. Thank you 

8 again. 

9 Stefan? 

10 MR. KOESTER: Hi, Stefan Koester, 

11 S-T-E-F-A-N, K-O-E-S-T-E-R. 

12 I am here today representing the Alliance 

13 for Industrial Efficiency which is a diverse 

14 community with representatives from the business 

15 environmental labor and contractor sectors. We 

16 are committed to enhancing manufacturing 

17 competitiveness, reducing emissions, and creating 

18 jobs through the use of combined heat and power 

19 and waste heat to power. 

20 I'm here today to address the role that 

21 CHP and WHP can play in the Proposed Federal 

22 Implementation Plan and the Clean Power Plan, 
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1 generally. The Federal Implementation Plan that 

2 strongly supports CHP, waste heat to power, and 

3 industrial energy efficiency will serve as a 

4 model that state plans can use to meet compliance 

5 goals. 

6 Industrial energy efficiency, which 

7 includes combined heat and power and waste heat 

8 to power reduces costs and increases 

9 manufacturing competitiveness, operational 

10 efficiency and productivity. This will help 

11 companies maintain competitiveness when energy 

12 supply and prices are volatile. 

13 The economic benefits of CHP are clear. 

14 The cheapest energy is the energy that you don't 

15 use. The industrial sector offers the most cost 

16 effective energy savings. Nationally, industry 

17 has a lower cost of saved energy than the 

18 residential or commercial sectors. Energy cost 

19 savings from industrial energy efficiency can be 

20 translated into a competitive edge for businesses 

21 benefitting the overall economy for states and 

22 the nation at large, and the host company's 
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1 bottom line. 

2 Industrial energy efficiency projects 

3 like insulation and lighting improvements lower 

4 electricity demand in the industrial sector. CHP 

5 and WHP displace the need for central power 

6 generation. State scan also leverage millions of 

7 dollars in private investment for all of these 

8 improvements at industrial facilities. These 

9 projects help avoid the need to build costly new 

10 power plants at ratepayer expense. They extend 

11 the life of existing utility generation, 

12 distribution, and transmission resources, and 

13 lower the cost of electricity for all consumers. 

14 Jobs can also be created in design, 

15 construction, installation, and maintenance of 

16 efficiency in equipment. If every state used 

17 four common efficiency policies to meet the Clean 

18 Power Plan targets, including energy efficiency 

19 targets in building codes, CHP and WHP, and 

20 appliance standards, we could create more than 

21 600,000 new jobs and save consumers more than $48 

22 billion by 2030. 
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1 I would like to address the role that CHP 

2 and WHP can play in enhancing the reliability of 

3 the electric sector. Industrial efficiency makes 

4 our electric system more reliable by reducing 

5 demand for large energy users. This alleviates 

6 transmission and distribution, and grid 

7 constraints. Moreover, CHP systems produce heat 

8 and electricity at the point of use. This 

9 reduces the demand for -- or the need, excuse me 

10 -- for long-range transmission expansion. In 

11 many cases they can operate independently of the 

12 grid and keep providing electricity during power 

13 outages. 

14 After Super Storm Sandy, for example, 

15 more than 8 million people along the Eastern 

16 Seaboard lost power. Hospitals, universities, 

17 and manufacturing facilities with CHP were able 

18 to keep the lights on. 

19 Potential deployment for these 

20 technologies is large. Manufacturers have 

21 already taken significant steps to reduce their 

22 energy use and increase the productivity of their 
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1 facilities. However, great potential remains. 

2 In fact, a recent DOE study finds that there is a 

3 potential to cost effectively reduce industrial 

4 efficiency -- excuse me, industrial energy use by 

5 more than 30 percent by 2025. According to DOE 

6 and EPA the untapped national potential for 

7 energy savings from CHP systems alone could 

8 produce as much electricity as 250 power plants. 

9 A Federal Plan should include industrial 

10 efficiency and strong CHP and WHP standards. The 

11 CPP provides states with flexibility to adopt the 

12 most cost effective compliance options. 

13 Nationwide the industrial sector provides the 

14 lowest cost source of emissions reductions. By 

15 creating and supporting efficient industrial 

16 energy use and clean distributed generation in 

17 the industrial sector, states can -- can reduce 

18 their CPP compliance costs for all ratepayers. 

19 Industrial energy efficiency has a role 

20 in either a rate or a mass-based plan. Under a 

21 rate-based plan, states and utility programs that 

22 support industrial efficiency reduced demand for 
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1 generation from affected EGUs. That reduced 

2 demand can be translated into emissions 

3 reductions credited with ERCs and incorporated 

4 into state plans. 

5 Under a mass-based plan, revenues from 

6 state auctions of emission allowances to owners 

7 of affected EGUs can be used to underwrite the 

8 cost of industrial efficiency investment, 

9 including CHP and WHP. 

10 In sum, industrial efficiency cuts 

11 emissions, creates jobs, and lowers electricity 

12 bills for all customers. EPA recognizes these 

13 benefits and explicitly identifies it as a 

14 compliance option. The opportunity for 

15 reductions through industrial efficiency is 

16 large, and a state should include industrial 

17 efficiency in their compliance plans. 

18 Thank you for your time. 

19 MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for your 

20 comments. I'm sorry, I didn't catch the 

21 organizational affiliation. 

22 MR. KOESTER: The Alliance for Industrial 
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1 Efficiency. 

2 MR. GUNNING: Okay. Thank you. Thank 

3 you both for your comments. We appreciate your 

4 time today, and thank you for joining us this 

5 morning. 

6 I would now ask, please, Shelly Lee and 

7 Kerena Taylor [sic] -- are you here? 

8 Good morning to both of you. Shelly Lee, 

9 please, we'll begin with you. 

10 MS. LEE: Hi, my name's Shelly Lee. 

11 That's S-H-E-L-L-Y, L-E-E. 

12 Thank you for this opportunity to offer 

13 comments on the Proposed Federal Plan. I'm an 

14 Intern for We Act for Environmental Justice, D.C. 

15 base policy office. React is a northern 

16 Manhattan, New York, community based organization 

17 whose mission is to build healthy communities by 

18 assuring that people of color and low income 

19 participate meaningfully in the creation and 

20 sound, fair environment, health, and protection 

21 policies and practices. 

22 For the past 27 years we have worked to 
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1 empower, educate, and engage our communities in 

2 policy advocacy at a local, state, and federal 

3 level. Since President Obama released his 

4 Climate Action Plan in 2013, We Act has been 

5 actively advocating that every program policy 

6 make environmental justice a priority and an 

7 integral part of the development and 

8 implementation process. 

9 The EPA has taken some steps in the right 

10 direction and has taken great steps forward; 

11 however, we still have major concerns with the 

12 Final Rule and now the Federal Implementation 

13 Plan and Model Rules that have been presented for 

14 comments. 

15 While we cannot address all of our 

16 concerns in the allocated time period, I will 

17 touch on two key considerations. First, the 

18 completeness criteria for the submittal and 

19 approval of state plans should require states to 

20 conduct an environmental justice analysis and 

21 evaluation. An EJ analysis is essentially the 

22 process by which states will study how the 
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1 development, implementation, and enforcement of 

2 environmental law, regulation, and policies will 

3 impact positively or negatively low income 

4 community of color, Native Americans, and 

5 indigenous people. 

6 This process will help hold leadership 

7 accountable to make better decisions that protect 

8 everyone equally and provide governmental 

9 agencies and other entities a systematic method 

10 of assessing data and policy decisions. 

11 An EJ analysis should require states to 

12 at least -- at the least pinpoint where emission 

13 might increase, where targeted effort needs to be 

14 made around energy efficiency and job creation, 

15 where treating of allowances from market-based 

16 mechanisms should be limited or bound. 

17 The completeness criteria for submittal 

18 and approval of state plans currently does not 

19 include the requirement for states to conduct the 

20 environmental justice analysis, nor engagement 

21 with over burdened and/or vulnerable communities. 

22 It should ensure no increase in 
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1 electricity cost and the burden does not fall on 

2 those that cannot afford it. Ensuring that 

3 facilities that have installed pollution control 

4 technology are in effect using the technology at 

5 all times. Every analysis needs an evaluation. 

6 As a part of FIP requirements states should 

7 create a set of indicators like health, energy 

8 use, cost of energy, climate vulnerability, and 

9 cumulative risk that can be used to measure and 

10 verify both positive and negative impact in 

11 communities. 

12 This type of evaluation should happen at 

13 some frequency, possibly at the interim 

14 compliance period to make sure emission 

15 reductions are curing and investments in clean 

16 and renewable energy are occurring in the most 

17 impacted areas. States must complete an 

18 environmental justice analysis as part of the FIP 

19 approval process. 

20 Second, we ask that the EPA in 

21 coordination with the states strengthen workers' 

22 protection and create a pathway for just 
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1 transition. The EPA should strengthen workers' 

2 protection and do more to support a just 

3 transition. The EPA's Model Rules encourage but 

4 do not require states to adopt similar policies. 

5 We believe all states should be directed to meet 

6 the same standard. In addition, we call on the 

7 EPA to design the FIP and Model Rules in ways 

8 that more directly support worker transition for 

9 those affected by the shift away from coal. 

10 For example, a portion of allowance from 

11 retired coal plants should be auctioned or sold, 

12 and the proceeds directed to a fund for 

13 dislocated workers in their states. States must 

14 make sure to strength workers' protection and 

15 create a just transition. 

16 In conclusion, we hope EPA to strongly 

17 request that states complete an environmental 

18 justice analysis as part of their FIP approval 

19 process and that states strengthen workers' 

20 protection and create pathway for a just 

21 transition. Thank you. 

22 MR. GUNNING: Thank you. Thank you for 
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1 those specific recommendations as well. We 

2 appreciate that. 

3 Kerena Taylor? 

4 MS. TAYLOE: Hi, thank you. My name is 

5 Kerene Tayloe. 

6 MR. GUNNING: Kerene, I'm sorry. 

7 MS. TAYLOE Thank you. It's spelled 

8 K-E-R-E-N as in Nancy, E; T-A-Y-L-O-E. 

9 Thank you again for the opportunity to 

10 share our comments in regards to the Federal 

11 Implementation Plan of the Clean Power Plan. I 

12 am the Federal Policy Associate for We Act for 

13 Environmental Justice. As Shelly has stated, 

14 it's a Northern Manhattan community-based 

15 organization whose mission is to build -- build 

16 healthy communities. 

17 Here, in Washington, D.C., we are also 

18 advocating for environmental justice on a 

19 national level by engaging with the EPA, other 

20 agencies, and members of Congress. 

21 We are pleased to see the emphasis on 

22 public engagement with people of color, 
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1 indigenous and low income communities that have 

2 historically been on the receiving end of the 

3 negative impacts of climate change. 

4 Upon further review of the Clean Power 

5 Plan and the Federal Implementation Plan, and the 

6 Model Rule, We Act believes that the following 

7 considerations will strengthen the Clean Power 

8 Plan: 

9 Firstly, We Act does not support either a 

10 mass-based or rate-based approach. Because the 

11 FIP and the Model Plan promote Cap and Trade as 

12 the only option, we recommend that the FIP place 

13 an equal amount of emphasis on other policies and 

14 pathways to compliance through expanding 

15 renewable energy, exploring renewable portfolio 

16 standards, energy efficiency resource standards, 

17 and net metering in order to lessen the potential 

18 negative impact effects of state -- of states 

19 adopting a mass-based or rate-based approach, it 

20 should be required that states work directly with 

21 the EPA to assess whether and where emissions 

22 increases may result from plan implementation and 
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1 mitigate adverse impacts, if any, in over 

2 burdened communities. 

3 State should also be required to create a 

4 monitoring system to document baseline levels of 

5 carbon dioxide emissions and toxic co-pollutants. 

6 Specifically, in neighborhoods with multiple 

7 regulated sources, Title 5, or other major and 

8 minor permitted sources, or areas that are 

9 identified in the highest percentile from the EPA 

10 EJ Proximity Analysis. 

11 States should also be required to work 

12 directly with the EPA to determine whether the 

13 implementation of the Federal Plan and other air 

14 quality rules are, in fact, reducing emissions 

15 and improving air quality in all areas and/or 

16 whether there are localized air quality impacts 

17 that need to be addressed under other Clean Air 

18 Act authorities. 

19 States should also be required to 

20 disallow any type of trading allowance and 

21 credits for being exchanged in any areas where 

22 the air is already compromised. Again, states 
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1 should also look to revise the mass-based FIP and 

2 Model Rule to incorporate energy efficiency. 

3 Secondly, We Act firmly believes that the 

4 FIP proposal should not allow unsustainable and 

5 unhealthy biomass and waste incineration to 

6 qualify for credits or allowances. If state 

7 implementation of the Clean Power Plan 

8 incentivizes burning waste and wood alongside 

9 coal and other fossil fuels, greenhouse gas 

10 emissions will go up, and much-needed funds will 

11 be taken from community climate incentives. 

12 Burning waste releases dioxin, lead, mercury, and 

13 other toxins that can cause asthma, cancer, and 

14 other serious health problems. 

15 So, in conclusion, we are definitely 

16 against a mass-based or a rate-based plan and 

17 against a proposal that would encourage the 

18 unsustainable and healthy -- unsustainable or 

19 unhealthy biomass burning near these communities.

20 We thank you again for the opportunity to 

21 share our concern, and we hope that our 

22 suggestions are considered. Thank you for your 
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1 time. 

2 MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for your 

3 concerns and for your suggestions as well. We 

4 appreciate that. Thanks to both of you this 

5 morning for coming to speak with us. 

6 Any questions -- additional questions? 

7 No? Okay. Thank you both. 

8 MS. LEE: Thank you. 

9 MS. TAYLOE: Thank you. 

10 MR. GUNNING: I'd now like to ask Ethan 

11 Handelman and Frank Swigonski to please approach 

12 the table. 

13 Good morning. 

14 MR. HANDELMAN: Good morning. 

15 MR. SWIGONSKI: Good morning. 

16 MR. GUNNING: Ethan, we'll start with 

17 you. 

18 MR. HANDELMAN: Sure. I'm Ethan 

19 Handelman. That's E-T-H-A-N; last name is 

20 H-A-N-D-E-L-M-A-N; and I'm the Vice-President for 

21 Policy and Advocacy with the National Housing 

22 Conference. We are the country's oldest housing 
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1 advocacy organization with more than 80 years of 

2 promoting safety and affordable housing for all 

3 in America. 

4 Our members -- who come from the public 

5 sector and the private sector, for profit and 

6 non-profit -- see the Clean Power Plan as an 

7 opportunity to make affordable housing more 

8 energy efficient, healthier for residents and 

9 better for the environment. 

10 The plan provides states the flexibility 

11 to choose to invest in energy efficiency and 

12 affordable housing as part of their overall 

13 approach to reducing carbon emissions, and we 

14 urge states to do so and EPA to maintain that 

15 flexibility. 

16 Energy efficient housing makes people 

17 healthier and housing more affordable. Energy 

18 efficiency investments will lower household 

19 energy bills which is especially valuable for low 

20 and moderate income families. Lowering energy 

21 costs also helps to preserve affordable housing 

22 by reducing ongoing operating expenses, freeing 
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1 up capital for property maintenance and 

2 improvements. Improving energy efficiency in 

3 affordable multiple family housing through things 

4 like insulation, ceiling air leaks, and improving 

5 HVAC systems also significantly improves indoor 

6 air quality which can reduce residents' exposure 

7 to asthma, allergens, and other contaminants, 

8 thereby improving their health. 

9 Energy efficiency is a proven way to 

10 reduce emissions cost effectively. In other 

11 words, it makes good business sense. A recent 

12 study issued by Energy Efficiency for All 

13 estimates that energy efficiency in multifamily 

14 affordable housing could realistically cut the 

15 sector's energy usage by as much as 26 percent 

16 based on data from a sample of several states. 

17 States can look to examples such as 

18 Massachusetts, Washington, and Minnesota where 

19 energy savings achieve for multifamily ratepayer20 funded programs count towards states that entered 

21 annual energy saving targets. There are many 

22 proven state policies that can be used to promote 
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1 energy efficiency in affordable housing. 

2 Among them, incorporating new energy 

3 efficiency requirements in the state's low income 

4 housing tax credit qualified allocation plan or 

5 strengthening existing requirements; developing 

6 utility sponsored or state sponsored energy 

7 efficiency programs aimed at affordable housing; 

8 providing additional resources for energy 

9 efficiency in state housing trust funds; creating 

10 incentives to leverage private financing such as 

11 grants, loan loss reserves, interest rate buy 

12 downs, or other types of credit enhancements; 

13 encouraging or empowering localities to adopt 

14 density bonuses, expedited permitting, or other 

15 incentives for creation of energy efficient 

16 affordable housing; and using the state tax code 

17 to incentivize energy efficiency improvements in 

18 affordable housing. 

19 There are a few states that have already 

20 proven that energy efficiency programs for 

21 affordable housing can work. And I have just a 

22 few examples. First, the Pennsylvania State 
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1 Housing Finance Agency recently provided 

2 financing for capital improvements that resulted 

3 in a reduction in carbon dioxide equivalent 

4 emissions of over 10,000 metric tons across 91 

5 affordable multifamily properties. 

6 Maryland's Department of Housing 

7 Community Development offers a multifamily loan 

8 program for energy efficiency investments that 

9 specifically targets affordable rental 

10 properties. 

11 In Chicago, Energy Savers is an energy 

12 retrofit program created by CNT Energy and 

13 Community Investment Corporation in Chicago 

14 targeting existing mid to low income affordable 

15 and subsidized properties in the Chicago area. 

16 The program draws on a diverse mix of funding 

17 sources including the Illinois utilities, state, 

18 local, and federal governments, and foundation 

19 funding to provide property owners with 

20 comprehensive and cost effective energy retrofit 

21 services. 

22 In Massachusetts the low income 
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1 multifamily retrofit program provides public -- 

2 public non-profit and for profit owners of low 

3 income housing with a one-stop shop for cost 

4 effective energy efficiency improvements. 

5 Services include benchmarking tools, energy 

6 assessments, technical assistance, and grant 

7 funding for energy efficiency upgrades. And 

8 that's funded by Massachusetts utilities. 

9 The last example comes from New Jersey 

10 where the Public Service Electric and Gas 

11 Residential Multifamily program is the largest 

12 multifamily program to incorporate on bill 

13 financing. So it provides incentives to buy down 

14 the up-front cost of whole building energy 

15 efficiency projects. And owners pay the 

16 remaining share of the project cost through their 

17 utility bills with no interest over five years. 

18 Since its launch in 2010, the program has 

19 enrolled more than 10,000 units in 277 buildings 

20 with an additional 47 owners representing 9,000 

21 units on the waiting list. 

22 In conclusion, we welcome EPA's Clean 
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1 Power Plan and see it as an opportunity to 

2 stimulate greater investment in energy efficient 

3 affordable housing. There are affordable rental 

4 properties in need of energy efficiency 

5 improvements in every state, and they should be a 

6 part of every state's plan. 

7 States that craft their own 

8 implementation plans will be in the best position 

9 to promote energy efficient housing to cut 

10 emissions, and we hope that the Federal 

11 Implementation Plan will allow such investments 

12 as well. 

13 The additional incentives in the Clean 

14 Energy Incentive Program that encourage 

15 investment in low income communities are a 

16 welcome complement to the plan, and we plan to 

17 comment to guide EPA in implementing that. 

18 Thank you very much for your continued 

19 efforts and for your attention to energy 

20 efficiency and affordable housing. 

21 MR. GUNNING: Thank you. And thank you 

22 for those specific recommendations and state 
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1 examples. We appreciate that. 

2 Frank? 

3 MR. SWIGONSKI: Good morning. I'll try 

4 and be quick because I know it's almost lunch 

5 time. Thank you for your attention and the 

6 opportunity to comment today. 

7 My name is Frank Swigonski, F-R-A-N-K, 

8 S-W-I-G-O-N-S-K-I. I represent Advanced Energy 

9 Economy, a trade association of advanced energy 

10 companies. 

11 As a business association representing 

12 the technologies and services that make the 

13 energy we use more secure, clean, and affordable, 

14 Advanced Energy Economy encompasses a wide array 

15 of businesses providing products and services 

16 that enable low cost, reliable compliance under 

17 the Clean Power Plan. 

18 These measures include wind, solar, hydro 

19 power, geothermal, nuclear, combined heat and 

20 power, transmission and distribution efficiency, 

21 and end use energy efficiency. 

22 Using advanced energy technologies and 
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1 services for compliance will improve reliability, 

2 reduce costs, and give customers more energy 

3 choices. These investments in a higher 

4 performing electricity system will also grow 

5 businesses, create jobs, and drive economic 

6 growth. 

7 A double E and its member companies see 

8 the Clean Power Plan as an opportunity to 

9 modernize the electric power system for the 21st 

10 century. And EPA's Federal Plan will ensure that 

11 his opportunity is realized in every state across 

12 the country. 

13 We are supportive of the flexible 

14 approach taken by EPA under both the rate-based 

15 and the mass-based Federal Plan proposals and 

16 Model Trading Rules. We view trading as the best 

17 way to achieve EPA's targets; however, there are 

18 several areas where these proposals can be 

19 improved to allow affected units to take full 

20 advantage of the benefits of advanced energy. 

21 EPA should finalize only one plan type, 

22 mass or rate in every state in which it 
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1 implements a Federal Plan. With certain changes 

2 A double E believes that either plan type could 

3 facilitate the use of advanced energy for 

4 flexible and cost effective compliance. However, 

5 in order to maximize the benefits of interstate 

6 trading, the EPA should ensure that all Federal 

7 Plan states are under a single plan type. 

8 EPA should ensure that all advanced 

9 energy measures included in the Final Rule are 

10 available to states under a Federal Plan. This 

11 will keep compliance costs down, put all states 

12 on an even playing field, and create a consistent 

13 market for eligible compliance measures. 

14 As proposed, the rate-based Federal Plan 

15 restricts emission rate credits -- ERCs -- 

16 eligibility to on shore utility scale wind, 

17 utility scale solar and photovoltaics, 

18 concentrated solar power, geothermal power, 

19 utility scale hydro, and new nuclear units or 

20 capacity upgrades. The full suite of eligible 

21 measures allowed in state plans should be 

22 available under the Federal Plan, including 
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1 energy efficiency, combined heat and power, 

2 transmission and distribution efficiency, and 

3 distributed generation. Including these measures 

4 in the Federal Plan will keep costs down and 

5 ensure an equitable and optimal outcome. This 

6 will allow affected units to make use of the most 

7 cost effective resources which are a no regrets 

8 choice even without the CPP. 

9 Under the mass-based Federal Plan, as 

10 proposed, the allocation of allowances will limit 

11 opportunities for advanced energy to compete in 

12 the marketplace by providing windfall profits for 

13 existing units but no meaningful incentives for 

14 advanced energy. 

15 The renewable energy set aside gives a 

16 very small portion of the total allowance applied 

17 to a fast-growing resource. As renewable 

18 capacity continues to ramp up, the market 

19 incentive for this set aside will be further 

20 diluted. 

21 The set asides ignore entire categories 

22 of emission reduction measures, including some of 
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1 the most cost effective options such as energy 

2 efficiency, transmission and distribution 

3 efficiencies, and combined heat and power. EPA 

4 should include provisions for these measures to 

5 earn allowances under the Federal Plan to ensure 

6 that these measures will contribute meaningfully 

7 to compliance. 

8 More generally, the proposed allocation 

9 scheme is flawed in that it disincentivizes 

10 advanced energy and could lead to windfall 

11 profits for some existing resources. 

12 Energy efficiency and other behind-the13 meter sources provide verifiable emission 

14 reductions that can be efficiently tracked and 

15 traded. One of the major challenges raised by 

16 EPA is administering a program with these 

17 resources, but there are efforts already underway 

18 that will address that challenge. 

19 A double E is supportive of the 

20 development of the National Energy Efficiency 

21 Registry, a streamlined tool to track energy 

22 efficiency savings for CPP compliance. This 
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1 effort is being led by officials in Tennessee in 

2 conjunction with officials in Georgia, Michigan, 

3 Minnesota, Oregon, and Pennsylvania along with 

4 the National Association of State Energy 

5 Officials, the Department of Energy, the Climate 

6 Registry, E for the Future, and APX. 

7 The Clean Energy Incentive Program is 

8 intended to incentivize early action, but as 

9 proposed could actually suppress demand for 

10 emission-reducing investments between now and 

11 2020. Key changes are needed to ensure that the 

12 program fulfills its goals. The dates should be 

13 moved forward both for project eligibility and 

14 for the start of credit generation. The current 

15 dates push project eligibility back as far as 

16 2018 and do not allow projects to start 

17 generating credits until 2020. These dates may 

18 perversely lead utilities and project developers 

19 to delay projects that would otherwise happen 

20 between now and 2020. 

21 In addition, the CEIP should be expanded 

22 beyond energy efficiency and low income 
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1 communities and wind and solar. By excluding 

2 other advanced energy technologies and by 

3 restricting energy efficiency to low income 

4 communities, the CEIP, as proposed, misses an 

5 opportunity to make early progress in these key 

6 sectors. Thank you. 

7 MR. GUNNING: Thanks for those comments 

8 and those suggestions. We appreciate it. Thank 

9 you to both of you for your comments and for 

10 being prompt. 

11 It brings us to the noon hour, to the 

12 lunch hour, so we're going to take a break. We 

13 are going to pause the hearing and resume 

14 promptly at 1:00 o'clock. 

15 For all in attendance, thank you for 

16 coming this morning. We appreciate it. We 

17 appreciate the comments. We appreciate the input 

18 and look forward to discussing more this 

19 afternoon. Thank you. 

20 (Brief recess.) 

21 

22 
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1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 

2 MR. RUPP: All right. I think we are at 

3 the top of the hour, so we'll go ahead and get 

4 started today. 

5 Good afternoon, everyone joining us. 

6 Thank you for being here. 

7 My name is Mark Rupp. I'm the Deputy 

8 Associate Administrator here at EPA for the 

9 Office of Intergovernmental Relations. 

10 I'm joined here by Brian Fisher and Chris 

11 Sherrhy, both with the Office of Air and 

12 Radiation. 

13 Fossil fuel fired power plants are the 

14 largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions 

15 or carbon pollution accounting for 31 percent of 

16 the U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. 

17 Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 

18 essential step in lessening the impacts of 

19 climate change and producing a more certain 

20 future for our environment, our health, and 

21 future generations. 

22 We are here today to listen to your 
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1 comments on the EPA's proposed Federal Plan and 

2 Model Rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 

3 existing power plants. 

4 On October 23rd -- on October 23rd, 2015, 

5 the Environmental Protection Agency published in 

6 the Federal Register its Proposed Federal Plan to 

7 implement emission guidelines for power plants 

8 under Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. 

9 The EPA's 111(d) rule, known as the Clean 

10 Power Plan, takes effect on December 22nd, 2015, 

11 and applies to affected power plants that began 

12 construction on or before January 8th, 2014. 

13 The Federal Plan and Model Trading Rules 

14 demonstrate a readily available path forward for 

15 Clean Power Plan implementation and present 

16 flexible, affordable, implementation options for 

17 states. 

18 The Model Rules provide a cost effective 

19 pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 

20 the EPA and make it easy for states and power 

21 plants to use emissions trading. It does the 

22 heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 
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1 model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 

2 implement the Federal Plan in any state that does 

3 not submit an approvable plan. 

4 This proposal includes four discreet 

5 proposed actions. A rate-based federal plan for 

6 each state with affected EGUs, a mass-based 

7 federal plan for each state with affected EGUs, a 

8 rate-based model trading rule for potential use 

9 by any state, and a mass-based model trading rule 

10 for potential use by any state. 

11 The proposed federal plans will achieve 

12 the same levels of emissions performance as 

13 required of state plans under the Clean Power 

14 Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 

15 those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 

16 determines have failed to submit an approvable 

17 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 

18 in the emission guidelines. 

19 In those states where a federal plan may 

20 be required, a final federal plan will implement 

21 the same emission guidelines for affected power 

22 plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 
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1 would not require additional control requirements 

2 or impose additional costs. 

3 Even where a federal plan is put in place 

4 for a particular state, that state will still be 

5 able to submit a plan which, if approved, will 

6 allow the state and its sources to exit the 

7 federal plan. States may take delegation of 

8 administrative aspects of the federal plan in 

9 order to become the primary implementers or 

10 submit partial state plans in order to take over 

11 the implementation of a portion of a federal 

12 plan. 

13 States operating under a federal plan may 

14 adopt complimentary measures outside of that plan 

15 to facilitate compliance and lower costs to 

16 benefit -- to the benefit of power generators and 

17 to consumers. 

18 The proposal also includes a Model Rule 

19 for those states that are developing their own 

20 state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 

21 the rate-based and mass-based model trading rules 

22 in summer 2016. 
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1 A state program that adheres to the model 

2 trading rule provisions specified in this 

3 rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 

4 approvable. There are stand-alone portions of 

5 the model trading rules such as the evaluation, 

6 measurement, and verification procedures for 

7 emission rate credits that would be approvable 

8 even if a state adopted an approach that differs 

9 in other respects from the model rule. 

10 In addition, the proposal contains a 

11 finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 

12 implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 

13 affected EGUs located in Indian Country. CO2

14 emission performance rates for these facilities 

15 were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 

16 Information on how the EPA will reach out 

17 to communities throughout the comment period and 

18 an overview of the actions that the EPA is taking 

19 to ensure that vulnerable communities are not 

20 disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking. 

21 If you would like any more information 

22 about the proposed rule, there are fact sheets 
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1 available where you checked in at the 

2 registration desk. 

3 And before we get started, I'd like to go 

4 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 

5 in order to make today's hearing run more 

6 smoothly. 

7 First, please be sure that if you have 

8 checked in at the registration desk -- even if 

9 you are not planning to speak today, it's 

10 important to have you have signed in. And if you 

11 did sign up to speak online or by phone but 

12 haven't told us that you are here, please step 

13 out to the registration desk and let the EPA 

14 staff know that you have arrived. 

15 I'm going to be calling up speakers in 

16 pairs. And when your name is called, please come 

17 to the speaker's table right here at the front of 

18 the room. When I call on you to speak, please 

19 state your name and spell it for the court 

20 reporter. Your comments will be transcribed and 

21 included in the record of comments on the 

22 proposed rule. 
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1 Each speaker will have five minutes to 

2 give comments. And we have a timer light to help 

3 you know how much time you have left to speak. 

4 When the light turns green to yellow, that means 

5 you have one minute remaining. When it turns 

6 red, that's a signal that you are at five minutes 

7 and it's time to stop. 

8 When you are finished speaking, please 

9 remain at the table until the person next to you 

10 has completed his or her testimony. We are here 

11 to listen to you today; however, either of my 

12 colleagues or myself may ask a question to 

13 clarify any of your comments. 

14 After speakers leave the table, I'll call 

15 up the next pair of speakers and so on. 

16 If you've brought a copy of written 

17 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 

18 registration desk before you leave today. We'll 

19 put any written comments submitted today in the 

20 official docket for the proposed rule. 

21 We also have comment cards at the 

22 registration desk if you would like to submit 
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1 additional written comments today. If you want 

2 to comment in writing later, stop by the 

3 materials table near the registration desk and 

4 pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 

5 written comments. Comments must be received by 

6 January 21st, 2016. 

7 Let me assure you that the EPA gives just 

8 as much consideration to comments we receive in 

9 writing as we do to comments we receive at public 

10 hearings like the one. So if you have more 

11 comments that you would like to provide the EPA, 

12 please submit them by the comment period deadline 

13 so that your comments can be reviewed. 

14 If you have any questions throughout the 

15 course of this afternoon, please see the staff at 

16 the registration desk, and someone will assist 

17 you. 

18 So, thank you again for taking the time 

19 today to share your comments on the EPA's 

20 proposal; and we will go ahead and get started. 

21 The first two folks that I would like to 

22 call up, Paul Cicio? 
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1 MR. CICIO: Cicio. 

2 MR. RUPP: Cicio. Thank you, Paul. And 

3 is Hao-Loh -- Hao-Li Loh? Hao-Li? Thank you 

4 very much. 

5 Mr. Cicio, whenever you're ready. 

6 MR. CICIO: Paul Cicio, P-A-U-L, 

7 C-I-C-I-O. 

8 My name is Paul Cicio, and I am the 

9 President of the Industrial Energy Consumers of 

10 America. It is a not-for-profit trade 

11 association whose member companies are energy 

12 intensive, and we are trade exposed which means 

13 that relatively small changes to the price of 

14 electricity can have significant and negative 

15 impacts on our ability to compete with imported 

16 products, thereby negatively impacting middle 

17 class jobs. 

18 No other sector of the economy is 

19 directly impacted this way. These industries 

20 consume 73 percent of the entire manufacturing 

21 sector's use of electricity and 26 percent of the 

22 total U.S. electricity consumption. 
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1 The EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan and 

2 Federal Implementation Plan rule impacts us 

3 uniquely. The manufacturing sector is important. 

4 We contribute $2 trillion to the economy, 12 

5 percent to GDP, 12 million direct jobs, and 

6 another 5 million of indirect jobs. 

7 IECA member companies are not adverse to 

8 addressing climate change as long as these 

9 policies do not impact our ability to compete. 

10 Manufacturing is the only sector of the entire 

11 U.S. economy whose greenhouse gas emissions are 

12 below 1973 levels which illustrates that we are 

13 doing our part to address climate change. 

14 Nonetheless, we will pay for up to one third of 

15 the cost of the Clean Power Plan implementation. 

16 A November 2015 study conducted by Newark 

17 Consulting found that the EPA Clean Power Plan 

18 would impose up to $292 billion in compliance 

19 costs by 2030 which would be passed on to us, the 

20 consumer, in the form of a nationwide annual 

21 retail electricity rate increases in the range of 

22 11 to 14 percent per year. These are very high 
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1 annual increases, and they stand in contrast to 

2 historic electricity price changes. 

3 The Energy Information Administration 

4 from 2004 to 2014, the last 10 years, the average 

5 annual electricity rate has averaged only a 3.7 

6 percent increase per year. 

7 U.S. manufacturing has continued to 

8 struggle to compete with imported products, and 

9 the cost of the Clean Power Plan and FIP will 

10 make it even harder. 

11 The 2014 U.S. manufacturing trade deficit 

12 stood at $524 billion, and 70 percent of that is 

13 with one country -- China. 

14 While China's manufacturing jobs have 

15 increased 31 percent since 2000, U.S. 

16 manufacturing jobs have decreased by 21 percent. 

17 How can the Obama Administration and the EPA 

18 expect us to increase high paying middle class 

19 jobs when we are burdened with increasing costs? 

20 China's manufacturing sector emits 324 

21 percent more greenhouse gas emissions than U.S. 

22 manufacturing. The take-away here is that if the 
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1 goal is to reduce CO2 emissions, we need to make 

2 these products here in the United States and not 

3 in places like China. And we have not heard any 

4 solution from this administration or the EPA as 

5 to a solution to this. 

6 The FIP must contain measures to level 

7 the playing field with our global competitors. 

8 Offshore competitors who import products into the 

9 United States must be held to the same 

10 environmental standards and costs as we in the 

11 domestic manufacturing sector or -- or the U.S. 

12 economy and jobs will suffer while greenhouse gas 

13 emissions increase. That is a lose-lose. 

14 The rule is controversial. Over 27 

15 states have filed legal challenges to the Clean 

16 Power Plan; 24 states have filed legal challenges 

17 to the New Source Rule; 24 national trade 

18 associations, 37 rural electric co-ops, 10 major 

19 companies, and 3 labor unions all filed against 

20 the Clean Power Plan. 

21 We are offering the following comments 

22 that are specific to the Federal Implementation 
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1 Plan: Number one, the deadline for filing a SIP 

2 should be one year from the release of the FIP to 

3 give more states time to decide whether to alter 

4 their SIP or go along with the FIP. 

5 Number two, the EPA should not force 

6 premature investments by the electric utilities 

7 before all legal challenges are resolved. We 

8 don't want a repeat of what happened with the 

9 MATS rule. 

10 MR. RUPP: Mr. Cicio, we are at five 

11 minutes. I'll -- if you want to finish your last 

12 thought -- 

13 MR. CICIO: It just takes another 10 

14 seconds. 

15 Number three, ensured low cost 

16 compliance. 

17 Number four, include a provision to avoid 

18 industrial greenhouse gas leakage. 

19 And then, five, ensure that the FIP does 

20 not impact electricity and natural gas 

21 reliability. Thank you. 

22 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 
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1 MS. LOH: Good afternoon. My name is 

2 Hao-Li Loh, H-A-O -- hyphen L-I -- last name 

3 L-O-H. I'm a citizen. 

4 When my son was eight years old, he and a 

5 friend sat down and each drew a picture of the 

6 earth. There was also a friendly sun wearing 

7 glasses and a moon with a little figure planting 

8 the U.S. flag. The continents weren't drawn to 

9 scale or shape, but within the borders of each 

10 one he had written his vision for the world. The 

11 drawing was titled, The Almost Perfect Earth. 

12 There was no littering, no violence, no racism, 

13 no excluding, no guns, good education, peace not 

14 war, the NASA Station, and a volcano. I was 

15 amazed. 

16 It inspired me to think what if every 

17 person were to do this -- dare to envision our 

18 dreams. What if I were to? I'm ready to dream, 

19 and one of my dreams for the world is that we 

20 figure out how to cap global warming 

21 temperatures. 

22 I came here today from Philadelphia, 
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1 Pennsylvania, because I think climate change is 

2 the most urgent issue of our time. Everything 

3 else, as vital as it is, will soon be moot if the 

4 global temperature climbs more than 2 degrees 

5 Celsius. I live in the third most-polluting 

6 state in the nation. Pennsylvania's carbon 

7 emissions rival Chile's. 

8 But 58 percent of the -- of the state is 

9 still forest. I came because I love those 

10 forests. And although I understand the dilemma 

11 of those whose livelihoods depend on coal and 

12 oil, our continued existence on this planet seems 

13 questionable these days. Earth will exist beyond 

14 and despite us. The planet will endure. What it 

15 will look like and what life continues to exist 

16 and whether humans will survive is what concerns 

17 me. 

18 If I am lucky, I might live another few 

19 decades, but I would like to know that the human 

20 race and the sacred diversity of life that 

21 surrounds us will continue to flourish. 

22 I'm appreciative for the opportunity to 
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1 be here today and thankful to the EPA for 

2 limiting carbon emissions from existing power 

3 plants for the first time ever. I applaud the 

4 goal of decreasing emissions by 32 percent by 

5 2030. As ambitious as it is, however, it isn't 

6 enough. If, as the scientists say, a temperature 

7 rise of 2 degrees Celsius is the danger point for 

8 the world, then the U.S. will need a more 

9 ambitious plan. 

10 The ecologic health and economic reasons 

11 to halt climate change are compelling. We have 

12 already witnessed the impact of extreme weather 

13 in this country and elsewhere. 

14 There's also a powerful moral imperative 

15 for curbing our carbon emissions. As Pope 

16 Francis states so eloquently in his encyclical, 

17 Laudato Si, the climate is a common good 

18 belonging to all and meant for all. Global 

19 warming's impact is uneven and the most 

20 vulnerable are those who live in poverty and 

21 people of color here and all over the world. The 

22 Clean Power Plan is a significant component of 
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1 the United States overall plan. The intended 

2 nationally determined contribution submitted to 

3 the United Nations Climate Change Conference 

4 which takes place in less than two weeks. 

5 This is our opportunity to lead the world 

6 in curbing climate change. We have the dubious 

7 distinction of holding first place in terms of 

8 cumulative emissions over history. One of the 

9 costs of the American dream has been our enormous 

10 contribution to total global gas emissions. 

11 Let us also be first in taking the most 

12 stringent timely steps towards preventing the 

13 rise of global temperature beyond two degrees. 

14 Without our leadership and active participation, 

15 the world cannot met critical global goals. 

16 These are exciting times. We're faced 

17 with terrifying challenges, but we also finally 

18 understand in the words of Christiana Figueres 

19 the Executive Secretary of the UNFCC, [sic] that 

20 nations are interlinked inextricably and that 

21 what one does has an impact on the others. Our 

22 efforts to implement a strong clean power plan as 
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1 part of a national plan to decrease carbon 

2 emissions will make international collaboration 

3 possible and effective. 

4 We have a precedent for this. There is 

5 already an industry that excels at pulling 

6 hundreds of creative and brilliant minds together 

7 and funding to the tune of $250 million in order 

8 to create elaborate, imaginary worlds where 

9 dinosaurs walk again and humans fly. If 

10 Hollywood can create miraculously beautiful 

11 unreal worlds, surely the United States 

12 government and leaders can pull together the best 

13 minds of the world, amass funding, and garner 

14 cooperation to preserve our miraculously 

15 beautiful and real world, already the most 

16 perfect Earth. 

17 An ambitious Clean Power Plan with a 

18 rigorous timetable will allow us to lead the 

19 world in the effort to prevent global collapse. 

20 Thanks for listening. 

21 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Thanks 

22 for traveling. Thank you two very much. 
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1 I'd like to call up next Ellen Vaughan 

2 and Keara Hoban-Weinstein. 

3 Thank you two for being here. And just a 

4 reminder to -- to watch the light here. When it 

5 turns yellow, you know you've got one minute 

6 left. 

7 MS. HOBAN-WEINSTEIN: Good afternoon. 

8 MR. RUPP: Good afternoon. 

9 MS. HOBAN-WEINSTEIN: My name is Keara 

10 Hoban-Weinstein, K-E-A-R-A, Hoban, H-O-B as in 

11 boy, A-N, hyphen Weinstein, W-E-I-N-S-T-E-I-N. 

12 Good afternoon. My name is Keara Hoban13 Weinstein. I am an ordinary citizen, and I am 

14 retired, and I live with my husband in 

15 Jenkintown, Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia. 

16 I have long been treated for extrinsic 

17 asthma; however, in the past decade I have added 

18 medications, especially in the heat of summer due 

19 to poor air quality. In our circle of friends 

20 several people with no allergy history are now 

21 seeking treatment. 

22 And I once drove 12 minutes to work, but 
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1 within five years the time increased to 20 

2 minutes for the same route due to vehicle volume. 

3 Experiencing this change in our 

4 environment, I remain keenly alert to any sincere 

5 steps by our federal and state governments to 

6 address our unhealthy carbon polluted 

7 environment. And now, with the Clean Power Plan 

8 we have an historic step to reduce carbon 

9 emissions from coal fired power plants by one10 third before 2030. 

11 The Clean Power Plan also enables states 

12 to create and implement their own more efficient 

13 and cost effective solutions to produce clean 

14 power in Pennsylvania. And our electric company, 

15 PACO [sic] now offers the Clean Energy Option. 

16 And my husband and I have opted to switch to 

17 Clean Energy Option which is licensed to get 

18 energy from local solar and wind farms. 

19 As citizens taking some responsibility 

20 for our climate, my husband and I have downsized 

21 to smaller living quarters, about 600 square 

22 feet. Of course, we only use CFL light bulbs. 
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1 We share one car, and we use public 

2 transportation for walking or to do food 

3 shopping. 

4 Our State Representative, Steve McCarter, 

5 has co-sponsored a House Bill, HB-200, to 

6 reinstate the Pennsylvania Sunshine Solar Program 

7 to subsidize small businesses, non-profits, and 

8 homeowners with clean solar energy. 

9 At the federal level I congratulate the 

10 Department of Environmental Protection for 

11 providing ongoing public engagements to invite 

12 and involve citizens in this challenge to slow 

13 global warming and decrease carbon pollution. 

14 The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is strongly 

15 urged to become actively a part of the Clean 

16 Power Plan with an implementable plan to increase 

17 energy efficiency as well as increasing the use 

18 of wind and solar power. 

19 Pennsylvania's carbon emission reduction 

20 goals under the Clean Power Plan can be reached, 

21 but a strongly supported state plan is necessary 

22 to meaningfully achieve the health and economic 
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1 benefits the citizens deserve. Therefore, 

2 Pennsylvania needs to submit a final state plan 

3 to the Environmental Protection Agency to show 

4 full involvement in support of clean power by 

5 September 6th, 2016. Only then can we begin to 

6 implement solutions to decrease and eliminate 

7 carbon pollution. 

8 Thank you for your attention. 

9 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 

10 And just a note for folks in the 

11 audience, on deck next will be Tyson Miller and 

12 Barbara Gottlieb. 

13 Ms. Vaughan? 

14 MS. VAUGHAN: Thank you. Yes, Ellen 

15 Vaughan, V as in victory, A-U-G-H-A-N. 

16 So, I am here today on behalf of the 

17 Environmental and Energy Study Institute. It's a 

18 small non-profit here in D.C., and we do 

19 briefings and publications for policymakers and 

20 for stakeholders. And we have a subscriber 

21 network of about 10,000. We don’t lobby. We 

22 certainly want to bring the facts and the science 
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1 to the policymaking process. 

2 I am -- first of all, thank you for this 

3 opportunity. Thank you for having these 

4 hearings. 

5 We -- our mission, really, is to promote 

6 sustainable energy solutions and sustainable 

7 development in all sectors of the economy -- of 

8 the U.S. economy. And to show examples of 

9 renewable energy projects, energy efficiency 

10 projects, sustainable buildings, transportation, 

11 agricultural, forestry practices that really 

12 support that triple bottom line -- people, 

13 planet, and profits. 

14 We know that there are examples now of -- 

15 of how to do this. So in terms of the Clean 

16 Power Plan, just in general, EESI believes the 

17 plan can move the U.S. in that direction; and we 

18 applaud the EPA for -- for taking this action. 

19 There are lots of details to sort out, 

20 and we will be submitting comments for the 

21 record, and in particular on the Federal 

22 Implementation Plan and Clean Energy Incentive 
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1 Program. We think things like a uniform 

2 definition of valuation, measurement, and 

3 verification will be important. We want to see 

4 -- we want clarification on the definition of low 

5 income community and things like that; but we 

6 will be studying that and submitting final 

7 comments -- or submitting comments. 

8 I did want to highlight one thing today 

9 though. I focus on -- on one of the economic 

10 sectors, and that is buildings. Each and every 

11 state, as we know, has houses and buildings. The 

12 building sector in the United States is 

13 responsible for about -- or uses about 40 percent 

14 of our energy, total energy in the U.S. and 

15 accounts for about -- nearly 40 percent of 

16 greenhouse gas emissions. 

17 The building sector alone uses more than 

18 70 percent of the electricity. So that's why 

19 buildings are a critical piece of any kind of 

20 solution to look at electric power usage. 

21 The bad -- the good news is that we know 

22 -- we have the knowledge now. We have 
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1 technologies. We have products to greatly reduce 

2 energy use in buildings by up to 90 percent even 

3 just by using good strategies for making the 

4 envelope tight. Of course, we'd like to see 

5 Energy Star products inside. So building really 

6 can be the solution. They're a problem, but they 

7 can be the solution for -- in terms of retrofit 

8 and new buildings. Both are important. 

9 For new buildings we could make sure that 

10 we adopt -- that states adopt and enforce 

11 building codes. And there are things -- there 

12 are voluntary standards available. And, again, 

13 examples that we can show of systems and 

14 strategies for greatly reducing energies, also in 

15 affordable housing. And the benefits are 

16 endless, really. There are health benefits for 

17 energy efficiency -- comfort. And in terms of 

18 affordability you're greatly reducing the cost of 

19 owning and operating that house or building. 

20 So thank you so much for this 

21 opportunity. And again, EESI will -- is -- is 

22 very supportive of this and will be submitting 
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1 formal comments. Thank you. 

2 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Thank 

3 you both. 

4 Barbara Gottlieb and Tyson Miller. 

5 And on deck are Seth Heald and Dr. 

6 Jalonne White-Newsome. 

7 Ms. Gottlieb. 

8 MS. GOTTLIEB: Hi. My name is Barbara 

9 Gottlieb. That's B-A-R-B-A-R-A, G-O-T-T-L-I-E-B. 

10 In terms of my affiliation, I'm with Physicians 

11 for Social Responsibility. 

12 So thank you for this opportunity to 

13 comment on the Clean Power Plan. Again, I'm 

14 Barbara Gottlieb, Director for Environment and 

15 Health at Physicians for Social Responsibility, 

16 PSR. We're a 501(c)(3) scientific and 

17 educational organization with 21 chapters and 

18 about 40,000 members and supporters across the 

19 United States. 

20 PSR stands strongly behind the Clean 

21 Power Plan, and, in fact, strongly opposed the 

22 actions of Congress to block the plan and will 
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1 support President Obama in vetoing the CRA. 

2 That's because the CPP provides a springboard for 

3 our nation to abandon 19th century coal fired 

4 energy technology and move into a modern era of 

5 energy that is clean and healthy. 

6 Ending our reliance on coal means 

7 reducing unnecessary death, disease, 

8 debilitation, and human and financial costs. 

9 That's because coal damages all the major organ 

10 systems in the body and contributes to cancer, 

11 stroke, heart disease, and chronic lower 

12 respiratory disease which are four of the leading 

13 causes of premature death in the United States. 

14 And these are just the coal benefits. 

15 The most critical reason PSR supports the CPP is 

16 because it will help slow climate change. Coal 

17 fired power plants, as you know, are the largest 

18 single source of carbon pollution in the U.S., 

19 accelerating climate change and driving up world 

20 average temperatures. NOAA just told us that 

21 last month was the world's warmest October on 

22 record ever. 
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1 As a result of climate change we now face 

2 increased frequency and intensity of storms, 

3 dangerous floods in some places crippling 

4 droughts in others, an increased risk of heat5 related infectious vector-borne and water-borne 

6 diseases, and death. 

7 Climate change, in other words, is a 

8 health issue -- now. Already. In the near 

9 future climate change threatens to make some 

10 areas of Africa and the Middle East 

11 uninhabitable. It will increase the number of 

12 desperate refugees in the world, drive conflict 

13 and destabilization. 

14 For the sake of health, security, and 

15 survival we need to stop climate change. We need 

16 the Clean Power Plan. 

17 The best ways for states to implement the 

18 Clean Power Plan is to choose energy efficiency 

19 and renewable low carbon energy sources. It has 

20 been estimated that implementing the plan through 

21 increased use of renewables and energy efficiency 

22 would save -- would avoid -- excuse me -- would 
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1 avoid 3,500 premature deaths each year. That's 9 

2 premature deaths avoided each day. A thousand 

3 hospital admissions a year and 220 heart attacks 

4 each year. 

5 Energy efficiency should be the first 

6 step in this process. Energy efficiency is all 

7 about using technology and best practices to 

8 produce the same or better levels of services 

9 while using less energy. Very simply, it's about 

10 reducing waste. As they say, the energy you 

11 don't need to generate is the cheapest. And from 

12 PSR's perspective I would add and the healthiest. 

13 PSR is very pleased that EPA has 

14 introduced the Clean Energy Incentive Program 

15 into the revised CPP to give bonus emission 

16 credits to programs that increase energy 

17 efficiency in under-served and under-represented 

18 communities which bear a disproportionate health 

19 burden from coal fired pollution. 

20 The heart of a modern energy system is 

21 development of renewable energies like solar, 

22 wind, and geothermal. As we replace coal with 
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1 these clean low carbon energy sources, we help 

2 purge the air of pollutants, and we increase our 

3 chances of keeping climate change below the 

4 tipping point, avoiding what some people are 

5 calling climate chaos. 

6 The same cannot be said of natural gas. 

7 Natural gas is mostly methane, a greenhouse gas 

8 that is 86 times more potent than carbon dioxide 

9 over a 20-year time frame. And that's the time 

10 frame that matters in terms of controlling 

11 climate change. 

12 Methane leaks at alarming levels from the 

13 wells and the infrastructure where it's 

14 extracted, especially those that use hydraulic 

15 fracturing or fracking. And along with methane, 

16 those leaks also allow the escape of volatile 

17 organic compounds, many of which are toxic or 

18 carcinogenic. A shift from coal to natural gas 

19 would be a terrible mistake for health and 

20 especially for climate. 

21 Fortunately, a clean and healthy future 

22 is available to us. The Clean Power Plan can 
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1 propel us into a modern energy system based on 

2 efficiency and clean renewable energy sources, 

3 avoiding the use of natural gas and of nuclear 

4 power, and providing good jobs and income in 

5 American communities which are features that are 

6 also essential for health. 

7 Let's take that health protective clean 

8 energy path. Thank you. 

9 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 

10 Tyson Miller? 

11 MR. MILLER: My name is Tyson Miller, 

12 T-Y-S-O-N, Miller. I'm from Dogwood Alliance 

13 from Ashville, North Carolina. I’m the Director 

14 of Programs, and I really appreciate the 

15 opportunity to -- to be here. I appreciate your 

16 work on the CPP and the process that you're 

17 undergoing to create transparency and gather 

18 info. So, thank you. 

19 I'm here to express strong opposition to 

20 forced base biomass being included as a suitable 

21 compliance pathway in the Federal Implementation 

22 Plan for the CPP. 
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1 The CPP has the ability to create a 

2 lasting legacy of transformation, and it's 

3 evident that the ideals of the CPP are grounded 

4 in a moral obligation to citizens and future 

5 generations; but the inclusion of biomass takes 

6 us backwards and may actually undermine its 

7 intended purpose. 

8 We're just one of many groups 

9 representing tens of millions of individuals that 

10 have called on the EPA to exclude bio energy 

11 altogether from the Clean Power Plan. 

12 In terms of emissions reductions, burning 

13 wood and other forms of biomass in a power plant 

14 produces about 3,000 pounds of CO2 per megawatt 

15 hour, an emissions rate that's approximately 50 

16 percent higher than a coal fired power plant. 

17 Accordingly, biomass combustion does not replace 

18 -- reduce CO2 emissions and should not be 

19 considered part of the best system of emissions 

20 reduction, BSER, envisioned in the Clean Power 

21 Plan. 

22 Co-firing biomass with coal increases CO2
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1 emissions and decreases facility efficiency, 

2 making even the coal burn less efficiently. This 

3 is contrary to EPA's Building Block 1 for the CPP 

4 which is to increase coal plant efficiency. 

5 Thus, if the EPA allows bio energy as a 

6 compliance under the FIP, the agency will be in 

7 the peculiar position of claiming that biomass 

8 reduces emissions when it's actually increasing 

9 The 111(d) rule is supposed to reduce 

10 emissions from the existing power sector, but co11 firing biomass will demonstrably increase the 

12 heat rate, decrease facility efficiency, and thus 

13 increase the tons of CO2 emitted per megawatt 

14 hour. 

15 EPA is requiring that to be qualified, 

16 biomass must be demonstrated as a method to 

17 control increases of CO2 levels in the atmosphere, 

18 but the agency hasn't established required 

19 parameters or methods for how states might 

20 actively demonstrate this. 

21 And we're concerned that this ambiguity 

22 will engender more states making it a priority to 
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1 look to force based biomass given the perceived 

2 relative ease in meeting the definition for it, 

3 it might mean it would be qualified. 

4 By enabling and promoting a forced 

5 biomass as a compliance pathway, EPA is 

6 potentially diverting continued momentum for 

7 scientifically grounded and non-controversial 

8 solutions such as wind, solar, geothermal, energy 

9 efficiency, tidal, and a range of other pathways. 

10 It is our hope that the Federal 

11 Implementation Plan will contain the kinds of 

12 incentives and clear guidance that will spur 

13 continued technological innovations and 

14 investments in these proven and less 

15 controversial renewable energy pathways and bring 

16 down the important costs of these technologies. 

17 Flawed policies can have lasting effects. 

18 So, there's a case study that we're dealing with 

19 in the southeast right now. The EU, in essence, 

20 has said that energy from biomass is carbon 

21 neutral. And what we've seen is growth from 

22 about one million tons just a few years ago of 
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1 wood pellets being exported from our region to 

2 about 6 million this year and projections of 35 

3 million by 2020 and 70 million in the coming 

4 decades. So, it's -- it's problematic. 

5 And it's being covered on the front pages 

6 of the Washington Post and Daily Mail; and it's 

7 controversial. And I think, you know, if a 

8 state's going to look to biomass as a pathway, 

9 it's only going to get more controversial and 

10 take the -- the onus or the emphasis away from 

11 all the good things that the CPP represents. 

12 Industry insists they're using logging 

13 residual scraps and waste wood, yet it is 

14 estimated that 75 percent of the feedstock used 

15 to manufacture wood pellets in the southeast 

16 comes from round wood or whole trees. These 

17 facilities cannot reach their desired output and 

18 residuals -- with residuals and by-products and 

19 scraps. 

20 We followed logging trucks and -- and 

21 have seen where the sourcing areas are. In many 

22 cases it's the forested wetlands and bottom land 
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1 hardwoods. These are inundated forests that are 

2 kind of seasonally flooded. So they're kind of 

3 low valued forests, but they're high value in 

4 terms of ecological function and what they do for 

5 communities in terms of storm water protection, 

6 and water filtration and carbon sequestration. 

7 So there's a range of communities that 

8 are organizing -- we're working with five right 

9 now to pass local moratoria. And, you know, 

10 there's a lot of concern from the region. 

11 So, beyond bio diversity standing forests 

12 remove carbon from the air, provide critical 

13 flood control, and arrange other services, the 

14 most -- and then they help us avoid the most 

15 catastrophic affects of climate change and ensure 

16 community resiliency. Forests represent our best 

17 defense against climate change. Now is not the 

18 time to open the flood gates for forests to be 

19 used as fuel for electricity. Instead, we need 

20 to accelerate efforts to protect our forests and 

21 improve ecosystem health. 

22 We urge the EPA to hear the concerns of 
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1 national, regional, and local organizations on 

2 this issue by not building forest based bio 

3 energy into the Federal Implementation Plan. 

4 MR. RUPP: Great. Thank you very much. 

5 Thank you both. 

6 Seth Heald, Dr. Jalonne White-Newsome. 

7 And then on deck Elizabeth Norcross and Julian 

8 Mocine-McQueen. 

9 MS. WHITE-NEWSOME: My name is Jalonne 

10 White-Newsome. It's J-A-L-O-N-N-E; last name 

11 White, W-H-I-T-E, hyphen, Newsome, N as in Nancy12 E-W-S-O-M as in Mickey-E. 

13 So, first of all, thanks for the 

14 opportunity to be here and share some comments 

15 with you regarding the Proposed FIP and Model 

16 Rules. 

17 I'm the Director of Federal Policy for We 

18 Act for Environmental Justice, which is an EJ 

19 organization that was started about 27 years ago 

20 to make sure that low income communities and 

21 communities of color have a voice particularly in 

22 the policymaking processes at both -- really the 
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1 local, state, and federal level. 

2 I manage an office here in D.C., and a 

3 lot of my time over the past couple years has 

4 been to make sure that the Final Clean Power Plan 

5 addresses a lot of issues that communities are 

6 experiencing across this country, particularly 

7 around making sure that whatever policies we put 

8 in place are protective, really, to the health of 

9 those that are, again, impacted more by climate 

10 than other communities across the country. 

11 So what I'd like to share with you today 

12 are just a couple of points -- and we'll provide 

13 some more detailed comments about some concerns 

14 we have with the proposed FIP and Model Rules, 

15 particularly around the set asides, the 

16 requirements, the criteria for completion, and 

17 then the definition of low income. 

18 So, first, in terms of the set asides, we 

19 think it's really important that, you know, when 

20 you talk about the -- the opportunity for 

21 allocations and ERCs, that they don't exacerbate 

22 what the Clean Power Plan is trying to do, which 
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1 is actually reduce emissions particularly in 

2 communities that are overburdened. 

3 Our concern with any type of cap and 

4 trade or -- whether it's rate or mass-based is 

5 that oftentimes this type of system can produce 

6 hot spots and not really get at the reductions 

7 that are needed in the overly burdened 

8 communities. So, what we would like you to 

9 consider is really putting some type of 

10 restriction over the geography, the neighborhood 

11 where those type of allowances or credits can be 

12 used, particularly if you know there is a 

13 particular community that is overburdened with 

14 many regulated sources, making sure that they 

15 can't trade out or get credit for not reducing 

16 emissions from that source. So, really putting 

17 some barriers around how those set asides are 

18 used is one example. 

19 I think, also, when you talk about the 

20 requirements, there is a list of criteria that 

21 states have to meet once they turn in their plan, 

22 whether they decide to do a SIP or be FIPed. 
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1 And one of the criteria that we've been 

2 asking for in the Final Rule is that an EJ 

3 analysis is required. And what we mean by an EJ 

4 analysis is that essentially building off of the 

5 proximity analysis that the agency did in the 

6 final rule, really making sure that whatever 

7 compliance pathways that states decide to take, 

8 you're looking at the positive and negative 

9 ramifications of that decision. 

10 And so, not only from an emissions 

11 standpoint but in terms of job and just 

12 transition, you know, health concerns. And so, 

13 really just looking at the holistic picture 

14 because oftentimes when solutions are put forth 

15 and policies are put in place, you know, they can 

16 sometimes be more harmful than helpful. So 

17 we're asking that as a part of the required -- I 

18 think it's called Completion Criteria that an EJ 

19 analysis be a part of that as well as public 

20 engagement, which I'm not sure -- I know it's in 

21 the final rule, but I didn't really see it 

22 spelled out explicitly in the FIP and the Model 
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1 Rule. 

2 The third piece that I would like to 

3 bring up is just the definition of low income. 

4 And, you know, it's -- I think it's important to 

5 try and keep that in any way as broad as 

6 possible. I think the whole purpose of -- of 

7 kind of the Clean Energy Incentive Program is to, 

8 again, target, you know, resources in the 

9 communities that may -- really may have a 

10 challenge in reaching and getting at the 

11 renewable energy and the energy efficiency that's 

12 needed. 

13 So we want to make sure that that 

14 definition is broad enough to actually capture 

15 the folks that you're trying to help. But I 

16 think it's also important to really look at some 

17 of the definitions that are already out there 

18 that are being used by other federal agencies so 

19 you're not redundant or recreating the wheel. So 

20 whether it's weatherization, those who receive 

21 Social Security -- and we have, you know, some 

22 more detailed possibilities; but I think keeping 
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1 it broad, using what's out there and really 

2 looking at some of the other indicators in terms 

3 of health, you know, energy costs, and other 

4 things that can kind of feed into that 

5 definition. 

6 And another quick point is that it's 

7 important that when you're thinking about some of 

8 the set asides and energy efficiency, that 

9 oftentimes our communities aren't able to really 

10 use those weatherization dollars because the 

11 structures of the homes are just not in good 

12 shape. They're not ready to be weatherized, so 

13 if there is a way to incorporate some of that 

14 consideration into the set aside, or, you know, 

15 use -- I think that's important as well. 

16 So, with that, thank you for your time, 

17 and I appreciate your open ears. 

18 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Please. 

19 MR. HEALD: Thank you. Good afternoon. 

20 My name is Seth Heald, H-E-A-L-D. 

21 Two years ago I retired after a 35-year 

22 career as a lawyer and became a climate activist 
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1 and entered graduate school in the Master of 

2 Science and Energy Policy and Climate Program at 

3 Johns Hopkins here in D.C. 

4 I retired at a relatively young age. I 

5 had been reading about climate change, and I had 

6 come to realize that it's the greatest problem 

7 human civilization has ever faced. I wanted to 

8 do what I could to work on reducing carbon 

9 dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions. 

10 The situation is urgent, and our delay 

11 and inaction in addressing climate change in the 

12 past 25 years are disturbing. America has not 

13 been alone in the delay and inaction, but we bear 

14 a significant amount of responsibility, 

15 especially because of our out-sized contribution 

16 to the anthropogenic greenhouse gases that are 

17 already in the atmosphere. 

18 This semester in my Master's program I am 

19 writing a paper on Pope Francis' encyclical, 

20 Laudato Si on care for our common home. I've 

21 been studying it closely. I'm actually in the 

22 middle of a paper. The first draft is due next 
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1 week. 

2 As the Pope makes clear in this historic 

3 document -- I believe it's already historic. It 

4 will come, I think -- become to be seen as truly 

5 historic -- climate change is first and foremost 

6 a moral issue. The world's greenhouse gas 

7 emissions, particularly carbon dioxide, are 

8 disrupting the climate now; and they will do so 

9 far more in coming decades and centuries. 

10 The Pope and others also make clear that 

11 the world's poor will suffer the most, yet the 

12 poor have done the least to cause this problem, 

13 have benefitted little, if any, from the 

14 accumulated emissions to date, and are least well 

15 equipped to adapt to a change in climate. 

16 Make no mistake, people around the world, 

17 including in this country, are and will be losing 

18 their homes, their food security, their water 

19 security, their livelihoods and in some cases 

20 their lives because of our collective failure to 

21 act on climate change. 

22 It's deeply disturbing that many of this 
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1 country's political leaders, who ought to know 

2 better, claim that climate change is somehow not 

3 a moral issue. In the course of writing my 

4 research paper I've learned of a concept known as 

5 moral disengagement which analyzes and explains 

6 how and why otherwise good people can distance 

7 themselves from moral wrongs in order to ignore 

8 those wrongs. 

9 Professor Albert Bandura of Stanford 

10 University has written on this. He discusses how 

11 moral disengagement causes many to avoid taking 

12 personal and societal action on addressing 

13 climate change. I cite -- I'll give you the 

14 citation for his -- one of his articles on that 

15 in my written comments. 

16 The antidote to moral disengagement -- 

17 more disengagement from climate change is 

18 engagement, to speak out and to act. That's what 

19 Pope Francis has done so eloquently as have many 

20 others. And that's why I'm here today, and 

21 that's why I commend the EPA for taking the 

22 action it's taken in issuing the Clean Power Plan 
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1 -- the EPA and President Obama. 

2 It's an important first step in the 

3 necessary transition from a fossil fuel based, 

4 high carbon economy to a clean carbon pollution5 free economy; but many more such steps will be 

6 required -- and soon. 

7 With respect to the Federal 

8 Implementation Plan, the EPA should promptly 

9 issue such a plan if a state refuses or fails to 

10 issue a proper state implementation plan. 

11 The FIP should be designed to reduce 

12 carbon dioxide emissions as much as possible, as 

13 rapidly as possible. The FIP should ensure that 

14 carbon dioxide pollution standards in the FIP 

15 achieve or exceed the reductions promised in the 

16 overall Clean Power Plan. This includes ensuring 

17 that states address potential carbon dioxide 

18 pollution from new power plants so as to achieve 

19 overall electric sector emission reductions. 

20 Finally, the FIP should protect and 

21 benefit low income vulnerable people who are 

22 likely to suffer the most from climate impacts. 
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1 And when I say benefit, there may be some 

2 benefits from a FIP. There can be revenue 

3 raised, and it's important that that be 

4 distributed in a way that doesn't have it all go 

5 to the people who least need it. 

6 I thank the EPA and its hard-working 

7 employees, and you three gentlemen for your hard 

8 work and your skill in issuing the Clean Power 

9 Plan. 

10 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 

11 Julian Mocine-McQueen and Elizabeth 

12 Norcross. And then on deck David Karpay and 

13 James Chen. 

14 MR. MOCINE-MCQUEEN: Good afternoon. My 

15 name is Julian Mocine-McQueen, J-U-L-I-A-N, last 

16 name Mocine, M-O-C-I-N-E, hyphen, McQueen, M-C-Q17 U-E-E-N. Thank you all for being here today and 

18 listening to all of us all day. 

19 I'm here with an organization called 

20 Green For All, and Green For All is a national 

21 organization based out of Oakland, California. 

22 Our mission is to help to develop an inclusive 
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1 green economy strong enough to lift people out of 

2 poverty. 

3 And so I'm here today to, first of all, 

4 thank the EPA for -- for the rule for the Clean 

5 Power Plan, for really leading the charge in a 

6 really big and bold way. And I'm also here to 

7 implore the EPA to continue that leadership and 

8 to really recognize the opportunity that we have 

9 with the Clean Power Plan. 

10 And so, at Green For All we really focus 

11 our energies in low-income communities and 

12 communities of color. We do that because those 

13 communities too often are burdened with -- have 

14 an undue burden that is placed on them when it 

15 comes to pollution and the pollution that causes 

16 climate change. 

17 We also see that globally, those same 

18 communities are the ones that will feel the 

19 effects and are already feeling the effects at an 

20 undue rate; and it's not fair. And so, I think 

21 the -- the Clean Power Plan will address bringing 

22 down carbon, and that's exciting, and necessary, 
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1 and critical. And I think there's also -- so we 

2 know it will do that, but what I think is unclear 

3 is -- is whether we can also have other benefits. 

4 And that's really recognizing that the 

5 same communities that have been burdened by 

6 pollution and that will be burdened by the 

7 effects of climate change have the opportunity to 

8 benefit from how we address climate change. And 

9 I think the plan can do that, and I think it's 

10 critical that the Federal Plan that will be 

11 looked at as a model and states will pull from 

12 really leads the way there. 

13 And so, let's see. Oh, just to highlight 

14 some -- when I talked about the undue burden, 68 

15 percent of African Americans live within 30 miles 

16 of a coal fired power plant. What that means is 

17 one in six African American children develop 

18 asthma as opposed to one I ten nationally. So 

19 that's the kind of burdens that we're looking at. 

20 I think that the plan should -- should 

21 look at addressing -- I think that the plan in 

22 terms of it really being a way to invest and 
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1 transform our economy and clean our economy 

2 should be looking at ways by adopting policies 

3 that make long-term investments in these 

4 communities the priority and that it really looks 

5 at how can you minimize the pain of 

6 implementation, whether it's, you know, in terms 

7 of prices may be rising -- how do we minimize 

8 that pain that community is feeling and maximize 

9 the gain so that these communities can really 

10 gain. 

11 And I think that the plan should really 

12 hold equity at its center as Jalonne just said, 

13 really looking at how do you, you know, put an EJ 

14 -- an environmental justice lens at everything 

15 you look at and really make sure you're looking 

16 at it through that lens and putting equity at the 

17 center. 

18 I think this is especially important when 

19 we think about things like allocation of the -- 

20 of the pollution allowances. Don't give those 

21 away. Don't give those allowances away. I think 

22 all of us have to pay when we put our trash, and 
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1 I think the business is not villainizing any of 

2 the businesses, but they should be no different, 

3 you know, carbon pollution is waste, and they 

4 should pay to put it out there. And so, if there 

5 are allowances, then they should be paid for, and 

6 then those allowances -- the money should be 

7 invested in the communities most affected by 

8 that. 

9 I would call your attention -- in terms 

10 of a model, I would call your attention to what 

11 California did. We have a cap and trade system. 

12 I’m not advocating for any particular way, but 

13 when we collect money from polluting industries, 

14 so far we have -- there's a -- it's called 

15 SB 535. It was attached to our cap and trade 

16 policy. And SB 535 allocates 25 percent of all 

17 the funds gathered to the communities most 

18 affected. So that's environmental justice 

19 communities, frontline communities, and low 

20 income communities. 

21 In California to date it's -- we're not 

22 even in the third year. It's already been over a 
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1 billion dollars of investments in things like low 

2 cost and no cost energy efficiency upgrades for 

3 communities, things like free solar panels, and 

4 things like low income housing near transit 

5 centers, free bus passes for youths. These are 

6 all investments that make a real change in 

7 people's lives. 

8 And so I want to encourage -- encourage 

9 you to ensure that equity is at the center of 

10 what you do, that you don't give away the 

11 allowances and that we really see that Federal 

12 Plan as a model that all states can follow so 

13 that we're not just bringing down carbon, but 

14 we're bringing up opportunity and we're bringing 

15 up prosperity. Thank you. 

16 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

17 MS. NORCROSS: Hi, I'm Elizabeth 

18 Norcross, N-O-R-C-R-O-S-S. I direct the Center 

19 for Spirituality and Nature. I'm the Board Chair 

20 of the Regional Interfaith Power and Light. I'm 

21 also a theologian, and I teach young pastors in 

22 training at Wesley Seminary here in Washington. 
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1 I come before you in enthusiastic 

2 endorsement of the Clean Power Plan endorsement 

3 of the Clean Power Plan proposed rule. I join 

4 thousands across the faith spectrum in doing so. 

5 I just wanted to take my time today to 

6 tell you about a class that I teach at Wesley 

7 Seminary called Greening Your Congregation. At 

8 the beginning of each semester I make a rather 

9 bold statement to these young wide-eyed, young 

10 pastors to be, and I tell them that this is the 

11 most important class that they'll take at 

12 Seminary. And I watch their reactions. You 

13 know, these young people come to Wesley and other 

14 seminaries hoping to make a difference in the 

15 world, and they're skeptical that this class 

16 about creation care is more important than 

17 scripture, and theology, and ethics, but it is 

18 because if the planet is unraveling, nothing else 

19 will matter. 

20 This is the reality of these young 

21 peoples' lives, these young pastors in training. 

22 Many of these students will be pastors over the 
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1 next 50 years. During that time the impacts of 

2 climate change will show themselves and will 

3 become more real and more dire. 

4 One of my students might become a pastor 

5 of a church in Hampton Roads which finds itself 

6 disintegrating because of flood waters that are 

7 rising in the area. Another might find herself 

8 pastoring a congregation in Richmond with 

9 increasing asthma rates. Yet another might find 

10 himself pastoring a congregation on an island in 

11 Chesapeake Bay, the island which is being 

12 reclaimed by the Bay because of climate change. 

13 How will they comfort their parishioners? 

14 How are they going to deal with the grief and the 

15 guilt? How will they teach God's presence in the 

16 midst of creation that's unraveling? 

17 We've seen pastors around the country and 

18 around the globe this week deal with the impacts 

19 of terror in Paris, and Beirut, and Iraq. We see 

20 them comforting their congregations. How much 

21 more difficult will it be for these pastors when 

22 the full implications of climate change are 
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1 revealed to us? 

2 So in this class I give these pastor a 

3 primer on climate change, and I give them no less 

4 than four quizzes on it to make sure they get it. 

5 That's how important it is. I watch as their 

6 young eyes open to the dangers of the planet and 

7 particularly to those whom our religion and many 

8 others call out for special treatment -- the poor 

9 and the marginalized. 

10 And we talk in very specific terms about 

11 what individuals and congregations can do, and we 

12 give them very specific tasks and tools with 

13 which to do that. This is important work, but 

14 it's not enough. 

15 Bold, broad actions such as that outlined 

16 in the President's proposed rule are essential to 

17 meet these already existing individual efforts. 

18 We've seen the implications of inaction. 

19 Community displacement, health effects, major 

20 storm events. It's past time to act. 

21 One of the Biblical stories that we talk 

22 about in our class is the story of Jonah and the 
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1 Whale that's familiar to many of you. When asked 

2 by God to speak truth courageously to power, 

3 Jonah did what many of us do. He tried to flee. 

4 You might remember he tried to flee aboard a 

5 boat. That didn't work so well for him. 

6 I can imagine a present-day Jonah making 

7 excuses for his inaction -- too expensive, not 

8 that bad, it's -- the science is inconclusive. 

9 We might remember what happened to Jonah 

10 when he tried to flee on the boat. I ran -- 

11 ironically, a major storm event erupted, and when 

12 his shipmates concluded that it was Jonah's 

13 defiance that caused the storm to erupt, they 

14 threw him overboard which is how he ended up in 

15 the belly of the whale in the first place. And 

16 I'll let you draw your own conclusions about the 

17 consequences that might await those 52 Senators 

18 who voted to unravel the Clean Power Plan, but I 

19 digress. 

20 The story of Jonah offers us some 

21 guidance, however. When all seems bleak, when we 

22 are in the belly of the whale with no visible way 
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1 out, there's always hope. But we need to allow 

2 God to propel us out of the belly of the whale, 

3 as Jonah eventually did. 

4 The Clean Power Plan is a good plan. It 

5 will make significant difference in the lives of 

6 these young students. Let's stop hiding and act. 

7 Thank you. 

8 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Thank 

9 you. 

10 David Karpay and James Chen. And then on 

11 deck Mary Martin and Susan Stillman. 

12 A reminder to those who may have just 

13 come in in the last few minutes. The time clock 

14 here next to Chris will turn yellow when you have 

15 one minute and red when your five minutes is -- 

16 is expired. 

17 Please. 

18 MR. KARPAY: My name is David Karpay, 

19 D-A-V-I-D, K-A-R-P-A-Y. 

20 Thank you very much for holding these 

21 hearings. I'm 26 years old. I've never known a 

22 time when the EPA didn't exist. I'm very glad 
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1 that it does. So thank you very much for your 

2 work. 

3 My name is David Karpay. I live in 

4 Philadelphia. I moved there after teaching 

5 English overseas for three years in China, 

6 Taiwan, and Spain. And the first two where I 

7 felt the effects of living in very close 

8 proximity to several coal fire power plants. 

9 This country by far is definitely one of my 

10 favorites out of all the ones that I've been to 

11 for several reasons I'll get to. 

12 Currently I work as a lead generator for 

13 Solar City which is an international solar power 

14 and technology company. Before teaching overseas 

15 I was an AmeriCorps Fellow in Baltimore where I 

16 grew up working as a field organizer at Retrofit 

17 Baltimore, a program under Civic Works, which is 

18 a large non-profit that focuses on education, 

19 skills development, and community service. 

20 As a field organizer at Retrofit 

21 Baltimore I was essentially a lead generator for 

22 contractors who did weatherization work; however, 
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1 through Civic Works we made sure that those 

2 contractors hired our trainees who were ex3 offenders that had been trained for 

4 weatherization services. And for approximately 

5 every five homes that me and my team could get 

6 contacted to weatherize -- be weatherized, that 

7 would be a salary for a year for someone who had 

8 only just a few months earlier thought it would 

9 be impossible to find employment. 

10 So I support the Clean Power Plan and 

11 action towards fighting climate change because of 

12 the social and the economic benefits of tackling 

13 an issue that affects at-risk communities the 

14 most. 

15 My work at Retrofit Baltimore had 

16 noticeable and calculable benefits to the 

17 homeowners who weatherize their homes. It 

18 significantly lowered your energy costs and 

19 improved comfort and livability of their homes; 

20 but to the men and women who performed the work 

21 on those houses, the benefits were literally 

22 life-changing. There is a misconception that 
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1 contractors' workers have criminal backgrounds, 

2 but the truth is really anything but. To have a 

3 criminal background is a sentence to under 

4 employment and ultimately a round trip ticket 

5 back to prison. 

6 The green economy, through government and 

7 private donor funded programs like Retrofit 

8 Baltimore provides ex offenders and the under 

9 employed a second chance at finding a job with 

10 family sustaining wages. 

11 I graduated in 2011, and since then three 

12 out of my four jobs have been in the green 

13 economy. I currently work for Solar City, which 

14 employs nearly 15,000 full-time employees across 

15 19 states and is currently both reducing 

16 pollution from power generation and lowering 

17 people's energy costs. But I'm not here to pitch 

18 a solar residential power system, just the whole 

19 solar industry itself. 

20 So, according to FERC, out of all new 

21 power generation capacity brought online this 

22 year to date were just about 16 percent came from 
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1 photovoltaic solar; however, those statistics do 

2 not include residential rooftop which for Solar 

3 City alone accounted for hundreds of megawatts in 

4 just last quarter. 

5 Currently this growth has been fueled in 

6 no -- in no small part by the 30 percent Federal 

7 Investment tax credit which combined with 

8 innovations and efficiency across the entire 

9 value chain of delivering a PV system has lowered 

10 installed costs by 75 percent from 2008. And in 

11 that same time the number of jobs in the solar 

12 industry has grown from roughly 20,000 to nearly 

13 210,000 by the end of this year which is a huge 

14 growth. That's a lot of growth in a time when 

15 the economy was shrinking, solar was booming. 

16 So when the credit is set to expire, so 

17 the Solar Energy Industry Association, SEIA, 

18 predicts that in a worst case scenario that could 

19 be a loss of 100,000 jobs. However, with the 

20 Clean Power Plan compliance could drive the solar 

21 industry further as the growth of the industry 

22 has shown, it is just that -- an industry. 
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1 Solar power is already demonstrating its 

2 potential to be a conventional source of 

3 electricity, not just an alternative. And with 

4 battery technologies becoming more affordable, 

5 managing renewable production with grid demand 

6 means that it's only a matter of time and policy 

7 support before it powers our lives and helps us 

8 to clean our air and our water. 

9 Though solar still needs to grow before 

10 that can happen, it is on course to do so. Since 

11 2009 668,000 jobs have been created. 

12 Furthermore, last year SEIA announced an 

13 initiative with First Lady Michelle Obama and 

14 Vice-President Joe Biden's Joining Forces 

15 initiative to hire 50,000 veterans within the 

16 solar industry by 2020, and those are full-time 

17 jobs with family-sustaining wages. 

18 Of course those jobs in the industry 

19 could not exist the way they do without policies 

20 that support and incentivize their growth. 

21 Incentives and subsidies are necessary for the 

22 viability of any burgeoning industry. They were 
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1 what got America's fossil fuel industry off the 

2 ground the last century and are what are getting 

3 the renewal energy sector off the ground in this 

4 one. And the CCP along with other actions 

5 proposed recently and opportunities to grow the 

6 industry and -- are opportunities to grow the 

7 industry and give this country really a new 

8 industrial revolution. 

9 So I mentioned that this is my favorite 

10 country so far because of opportunities like this 

11 to speak and the CPP. So thank you very much for 

12 my opportunity to speak. 

13 MR. RUPP: Thank you. Mr. Chen? 

14 MR. CHEN: My name is James Chen, 

15 C-H-E-N. I live in Virginia. I would like to 

16 thank you for the opportunity to present my 

17 comments here. 

18 I'm a research physicist by training and 

19 by profession; and I'm not a climate scientist, 

20 but I'm quite familiar with the physical 

21 processes involved in CO2, methane, and so-called 

22 greenhouse gases in terms of global climate. 
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1 I'm here as a concerned citizen in strong 

2 support of the proposed EPA Clean Power Plan. 

3 And I have -- in my prepared statement I have a 

4 paragraph describing why I think the plan is 

5 good. It should be implemented in the strongest 

6 way possible. But I'll just get to some points 

7 that I like to talk about. 

8 The historically rapid rise in the 

9 average temperature around the globe is becoming 

10 increasingly certain. The extensive analysis by 

11 the Berkeley Earth's Surface Temperature Project 

12 established by the prominent climate change 

13 skeptic, Richard A. Muller, Professor of Physics 

14 at the University of California at Berkeley 

15 concluded that the earth's global average 

16 temperature has indeed increased and that the 

17 prior estimates of the rate of warming, which 

18 Professor Muller had previously doubted were 

19 indeed correct and that this increase is most 

20 directly correlated with the increase in the 

21 greenhouse gases of human origin. 

22 Of the anthropogenic sources, power 
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1 plants using fossil fuels constitute the greatest 

2 source -- about 30 percent -- of all greenhouse 

3 gas emissions in the U.S. In addition to the 

4 invisible and gaseous CO2, methane, and so forth, 

5 coal fired power plants also emit sooty 

6 particulate and other aerosols. You can directly 

7 this on cars and other objects parked nearby or 

8 near power plants. And they look like small 

9 specks of tarry substances and dust-like things. 

10 And it takes more than water to clean it. 

11 On a personal level people have to 

12 breathe in the aerosol, so if you have seen the 

13 black specks on cars -- which I have and also my 

14 boat -- you know you don't want to breathe that 

15 stuff into your body. 

16 I'm aware that there are still people who 

17 would call these conclusions a hoax. They, 

18 unfortunately, include many national political 

19 leaders who have not crunched the numbers on 

20 their own. These data are available publicly, 

21 and the critics should crunch these numbers 

22 themselves before they make these pronouncements. 
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1 However, let us assume that we do not 

2 adopt that rhetoric. People who accept these 

3 numbers, nevertheless point to some substantial 

4 issues regarding the economic consequences of 

5 requiring more stringent federal requirements. 

6 In general, the fossil fuel and power 

7 industries have consistently posed emissions 

8 standards with the argument that such standards 

9 increase the cost of energy, leading to higher 

10 cost to the consumers and businesses, and 

11 resulting in loss of jobs. This argument 

12 implicitly assumes that the current cost is the 

13 true cost of energy and that increases resulting 

14 from any regulations are new added cost. This is 

15 incorrect. 

16 The argument ignores certain costs of 

17 producing electricity that are currently passed 

18 on to the society at large and that are hidden. 

19 The increased global average temperature means 

20 that the atmosphere has more energy, so this will 

21 necessarily change the global atmospheric 

22 circulation patterns. This is irrespective of 
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1 any kind of model that you may have in mind. 

2 So the most likely outcome is that some 

3 agricultural regions will suffer a drought and 

4 some deserts may become flooded more -- become 

5 flooded more frequently. This is already evident 

6 in -- in -- all around us. These imposed real 

7 costs to those who are affected. 

8 And the sooty and tarry aerosols can 

9 adversely affect the health of the overall 

10 population. Because the impact of emissions 

11 cannot be localized, it is proper that the EPA 

12 standards be federal. And the implementation 

13 plan is key, and it should be as strong as 

14 possible. 

15 I have a -- running out of time, but the 

16 financial benefits of cleaner power plant 

17 emissions are -- are clear. And also, this will 

18 be reflected. It will -- instead of losing cost 

19 in jobs, I think it will force the power industry 

20 to innovate and develop the necessary new 

21 technology and new jobs to meet the requirements. 

22 So I believe that the handwriting is on 
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1 the wall. The world population is much greater 

2 than it has ever been. The demand for energy is 

3 rapidly increasing. Environmental protection 

4 will be a major demand for the entire world. By 

5 staying ahead the U.S. can hope to maintain its 

6 technological edge and derive benefits for 

7 everyone at the same time. 

8 I thank you for your attention and 

9 consideration. 

10 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Thank 

11 you both. 

12 Mary Martin and Susan Stillman. After 

13 the two of them, Katie Plowright and Sarah 

14 Saylor. 

15 MS. MARTIN: Mary Martin, M-A-R-Y, 

16 M-A-R-T-I-N. Good afternoon. I'm here on behalf 

17 of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber is 

18 the world's largest business federation 

19 representing the interests of more than 3 million 

20 businesses of all sizes, sectors, and regions as 

21 well as state and local chambers and industry 

22 associations. 
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1 The Chamber and its members continue to 

2 review and analyze the EPA's Clean Power Plan and 

3 related proposal on the Federal Plan requirements 

4 for GHG emissions from existing EGUs, the Model 

5 Trading Rules, and the amendments to the process 

6 for acting on Clean Air Act, Section 111(d) state 

7 plans. 

8 With respect to the Clean Power Plan, the 

9 Chamber certainly has concerns about the EPA's 

10 statutory and legal authority to promulgate the 

11 regulation. The impact of the Clean Power Plan 

12 on the affordability and reliability of 

13 electricity in this country and the feasibility 

14 and achievability of the regulation. Those 

15 concerns have been identified in comments filed 

16 during the rulemaking process as well as recent 

17 legal challenges. 

18 As to the proposal at issue here today, I 

19 will focus my comments on one of the areas of 

20 concern that we have -- mainly the burdens placed 

21 on states by this proposal and the related Clean 

22 Power Plan. 
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1 The federal regulatory burden on the 

2 states continues to grow, and in fact, has seen 

3 an unprecedented rate of growth in the last year 

4 with the EPA's finalizing of some of the most 

5 significant and sweeping environmental 

6 regulations in decades. 

7 States implement approximately 96.5 

8 percent of the environmental laws that are 

9 delegated to them. As a result, the success of 

10 the EPA issued rules often depends on the states. 

11 In 2013 the Agency provided $3.6 billion to the 

12 states for the administration of its program. 

13 Federal grants represented between 26 and 29 

14 percent of the environmental budgets of the 

15 states in 2013. The bottom line, states continue 

16 to do the lion's share of the implementation of 

17 federal environmental programs without being 

18 fully compensated. 

19 Again, and as shown in the chart that's 

20 in my written statement, states implement 

21 approximately 96.5 percent of federal 

22 environmental programs. This is a tremendous 
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1 burden for them, particularly from a time, money, 

2 and resource perspective. 

3 To add to the difficulties that states 

4 face, according to the Environmental Council of 

5 States, ECOS, states have seen a trend in 

6 declining funds from the federal government to 

7 implement these programs. Federal budget 

8 documents confirm that the EPA's state and tribal 

9 assistance grants budgets have decreased 

10 significantly in recent years. While the largest 

11 funding source for state environmental agencies 

12 is permit fees, federal funding is the second 

13 largest source. 

14 ECOS reports that -- quote: Decreasing 

15 funds from the federal government jeopardize 

16 states' ability to implement federally delegated 

17 programs and policies. These -- these problems 

18 will be significantly compounded by the fact that 

19 now the states also have to administer the 

20 precedent-setting Clean Power Plan, the new Ozone 

21 Standards, and the Waters of the U.S. Rule 

22 simultaneously. We, the regulated community 
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1 recognize and appreciate the fact that states are 

2 carrying such a huge burden and doing so with 

3 shrinking resources. Indeed that burden is only 

4 going to grow in the future as EPA issues more 

5 complex and costly regulations. 

6 It was mentioned above, the EPA has 

7 finalized three historically significant 

8 regulations, CPP, Waters of the U.S., and the 

9 Ozone Standards all within four months. This 

10 reality amounts to a sobering conclusion: EPA 

11 issues mandate after mandate on the states and 

12 the regulated community, but the states can only 

13 do so much with their limited and finite 

14 resources. As a result, states are being asked 

15 to do more and more with less and less when it 

16 comes to implementing federal environmental 

17 programs and policies. 

18 While the Chamber believes that the EPA 

19 has exceeded its statutory authority with the 

20 promulgation of the Clean Power Plan to the 

21 extent the Agency continues to move forward with 

22 this plan, including the proposal at issue today, 
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1 it is imperative that the EPA give the states 

2 meaningful flexibility in terms of implementation 

3 and compliance. 

4 For instance, the EPA should not require 

5 a detailed filing by states seeking an extension 

6 of time to submit a State Implementation Plan 

7 after the September 2016 extension deadline. 

8 This proposal plus the CPP itself are incredibly 

9 complex and technical materials that require an 

10 inordinate amount of time and resources for 

11 review, analysis, and ultimately development of 

12 an implementation plan. 

13 The EPA has complicated matters further 

14 by proposing relevant guidance to the states but 

15 leaving key questions open for debate until being 

16 finalized in the summer of 2016. States will 

17 have little time to react to any final input by 

18 the EPA. 

19 As previously mentioned, state resources 

20 are limited and precious these days. 

21 Consequently, the EPA should be reasonable and 

22 lenient in its review and approval of these 
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1 extension requests. 

2 For those same reasons, the Agency also 

3 should extend the September 2016 deadline for 

4 states to submit a State Implementation Plan or 

5 request an extension. We suggest the deadline be 

6 extended to one year following the Agency's 

7 finalizing of the Model State Trading Rules. 

8 In addition to the reasons based upon 

9 resources and complexity, numerous states will 

10 have to undertake a legislative process in 

11 connection with their implementation of the CPP. 

12 The timing of those legislative processes cannot 

13 be accelerated or compelled, so the EPA should 

14 give states sufficient time to let those 

15 processes run. 

16 We hope that EPA will give full and 

17 thoughtful consideration to these concerns and 

18 suggestions. Thank you for your time and 

19 consideration today. 

20 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much, Mary. 

21 Just one note -- and I'm happy to get it for you. 

22 We did give states some guidance on what the 2016 
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1 extension letter needs to require, and it's -- 

2 it's not entirely burdensome, but we can talk 

3 about that if you would like. 

4 MS. MARTIN: Sure. Great. Thank you. 

5 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

6 Ms. Stillman. 

7 MS. STILLMAN: Hi, my name is Susan 

8 Stillman, S-U-S-A-N, S-T-I-L-L-M-A-N. And I live 

9 in Vienna, Virginia, just down the road. 

10 So thank you for the opportunity to speak 

11 today regarding the Federal Implementation Plan 

12 of the Clean Power Plan. I live in Virginia 

13 where our Governor says that we're going to 

14 achieve the goals that we've been given by the 

15 EPA for the Clean Power Plan. And I'm really 

16 pleased with that. 

17 I am concerned, however, that in Virginia 

18 we'll have legislators that try to keep the 

19 administration from doing more than the CPP 

20 requires or who will want to restrict the plan to 

21 existing sources rather than future and existing 

22 sources. We'll work hard in Virginia to -- to 
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1 meet and exceed our CPP requirements and fend off 

2 the naysayers. 

3 The Clean Power Plan, if implemented and 

4 enforced as currently planned, is predicted to 

5 prevent 150,000 asthma attacks and up to 6,600 

6 premature deaths annually. That's worth a lot of 

7 money. I mean, lives and health are really 

8 important. 

9 Add to that the risk of sea level rise 

10 and the cost imputed by that and the impetus to 

11 get this plan right and to implement the CPP in a 

12 timely manner is fundamental to maintaining a 

13 livable world. 

14 States that are pushing back on the CPP 

15 are not looking at the opportunities that it will 

16 bring. The CPP provides great opportunities for 

17 economic growth and sustainable development. 

18 The EPA has estimated that the CPP will 

19 deliver annual economic benefits of up to $93 

20 billion by 2030. What more could you ask for? 

21 Clean air? Less risk from climate change while 

22 creating a new economy. 
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1 Even with all the opportunities afforded 

2 the U.S. with the implementation of the CPP, 

3 there are states that will decide to not act on 

4 climate. They will refuse to develop a SIP and 

5 meet their CPP requirements. For those states 

6 it's critical that the EPA promptly issue a 

7 Federal Implementation Plan. Carbon pollution is 

8 world -- is a worldwide problem, causing climate 

9 change and global warming. Reducing this 

10 pollution will save lives and protect the planet 

11 from those dangerous effects of climate change. 

12 Reductions must come as soon as possible. 

13 States that require a FIP are making the CPP a 

14 political issue. That's really an issue of 

15 physics. These states should fall in line and do 

16 their part to mitigate climate pollution. 

17 To ensure the draft model federal plan is 

18 strong and just, the EPA must achieve the 

19 pollution reductions provided in the final CPP 

20 or, hopefully, even greater reductions. So the 

21 FIP should do those things. 

22 The federal plan needs to include new 
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1 power plants to garner sufficient electricity 

2 sector reductions of pollution, covering the 

3 existing plants alone will not achieve the carbon 

4 reductions required. 

5 Energy efficiency must be part of the 

6 overall plan, particularly for low income 

7 consumers to lower their bills. The least 

8 expensive electricity is that which we don't use. 

9 We need to ensure that the Model Federal 

10 Plan benefits and protects low income and 

11 disadvantaged communities. For too long we've 

12 put power plants and their remaining coal ash in 

13 the communities that can least fight back. These 

14 communities have borne the brunt of the harms 

15 caused by pollution; and in many cases, those are 

16 the ones that would be most harmed by climate 

17 change. 

18 And the EPA must resist giving away 

19 allowances to the most polluting sources. 

20 Remember, this is all about physics even though 

21 we turn it into politics. So, the EPA should 

22 stick to what's required to achieve the carbon 
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1 pollution reductions to avoid the worst effects 

2 of climate change. 

3 The CPP, if implemented and enforced 

4 appropriately, will make the U.S. a leader in the 

5 world for fighting climate change. We're a 

6 country that prides ourself in being a leader, 

7 and I'm looking for us -- I'm really looking 

8 forward to us retrieving that mantle. 

9 Really, if we can put a man on the moon 

10 and now they're talking about Mars, why can't we 

11 clean up our atmosphere? 

12 Thank you for all that you do at the EPA. 

13 I really appreciate it, and just keep up the good 

14 work. 

15 MR. RUPP: Thank you. Thank you both. 

16 MS. STILLMAN: Where would I give my 

17 copies? 

18 MR. RUPP: To the desk out front where 

19 you -- 

20 MS. STILLWELL: Okay. Thank you. 

21 MR. RUPP: -- where you signed in. Thank 

22 you. 
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1 We are going to take a moment so Chris 

2 can keep writing and get a new pen, but Katie 

3 Plowright and Sarah Saylor, if you want to come 

4 up to the table? 

5 And on deck we've got Jon Cooper and Adam 

6 Hasz. 

7 (Pause.) 

8 All right. Katie and Sarah. 

9 MS. PLOWRIGHT: Hi, my name is Katie 

10 Plowright. K-A-T-I-E, last name Plowright, 

11 P-L-O-W-R-I-G-H-T. 

12 I'm going to be fast here, but I first 

13 wanted to start out saying thanks to the EPA, the 

14 Obama Administration, and the President for 

15 moving forward with the Clean Power Plan. 

16 Limiting global warming pollution from 

17 the power plants is a critical step forward for 

18 protecting my generation from the worst impacts 

19 of climate change. As a college student 

20 interning in Environment America I appreciate 

21 this opportunity to provide feedback on these 

22 drafts. 
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1 Having spent most of my life in 

2 California, I know that aggressively timing my 

3 showers and not having green grass in my local 

4 dog parks is a minor implication of the droughts 

5 affecting my state; but these small implications 

6 are representative of a very large problem that's 

7 affecting many Californians today. For 

8 California, South Carolina, Texas, and many other 

9 states that are currently affected by extreme 

10 weather it is important that we do everything in 

11 our power to implement the Clean Power Plan as 

12 quickly as possible and invest in clean energy. 

13 Energy efficiency is the cheapest and 

14 easiest way for Americans to decrease our carbon 

15 pollution. It is estimated that we could reduce 

16 our overall energy use by 40 to 60 percent by 

17 2051. 

18 States across the country have a vast 

19 capability to shift to clean energy. For 

20 example, America has the potential to power 

21 itself 10 times over with wind. In fact, 

22 Colorado is already producing more than 10 
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1 percent of its energy from wind. 

2 Furthermore, the United States has the 

3 potential to produce more than a hundred times as 

4 much electricity from solar energy each year. 

5 So, honestly, how could we not? 

6 So, here are some recommendations: As 

7 the EPA finalizes the Model Rule and the Federal 

8 Implementation Plan, the EPA should move as fast 

9 as possible. The faster the EPA can finalize the 

10 Model Rule, the more -- the more certainty states 

11 will have as they develop their compliance plans 

12 and the quicker they can move forward. 

13 Additionally, the EPA should apply the 

14 Federal Implementation Plan provisions swiftly 

15 should a state decline to adequately carry out 

16 its responsibilities. 

17 Lastly, the EPA must ensure that the 

18 affected power plants abide by enforceable limits 

19 on their emissions of global warming pollution. 

20 We strongly encourage investment in clean 

21 energy resources. And I thank you again for the 

22 opportunity to speak. For me, my generation, 
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1 California and all 50 states I urge you to move 

2 forward in cleaning up our nation's power plants. 

3 Thanks. 

4 MS. SALOR: Hello. Sarah Saylor, 

5 S-A-R-A-H, S-A-Y-L-O-R. Thank you very much for 

6 the opportunity to comment today. 

7 I'm representing my organization Earth 

8 Justice, and we also have lots of other comments 

9 to make than the ones I am able to give today, 

10 and those will be coming to you in writing. I'm 

11 sure you look forward to that, but today I just 

12 wanted to share some thoughts around one of the 

13 areas in which we think the proposal falls short. 

14 And that is in the FIP's treatment of 

15 biomass and waste burning. EPA must exclude 

16 waste burning and biomass incineration as 

17 compliance strategies under the FIP. Treating 

18 these facilities as legitimate strategies to 

19 reduce CO2 emissions would be contrary to the 

20 available science, undermine the greenhouse gas 

21 reduction objective of the Clean Power Plan, and 

22 increase pollution burdens in communities already 
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1 heavily impacted by air pollution. 

2 Per unit of energy burning waste and 

3 burning biomass release more CO2 than burning 

4 coal. Again, that's per unit of energy. An 

5 abundance of peer-reviewed science confirms that 

6 harvesting and burning forest wood for energy 

7 represents a large net source of CO2 emissions 

8 that persists for decades and more than a 

9 century. 

10 Even if EPA could nationally conclude -- 

11 sorry, rationally conclude over the long term 

12 that burning a few specific types of biomass can, 

13 under certain circumstances, result in fewer 

14 carbon emissions than burning fossil fuels, EPA 

15 cannot allow the inclusion of biomass as an 

16 eligible compliance measure in the FIP without 

17 providing notice of the Agency's intended 

18 approach to identifying what it considers as 

19 qualified biomass feedstocks. 

20 The proposed FIP states that using some 

21 kinds of biomass may have carbon benefits but 

22 only if the feedstocks are sourced responsibly 
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1 and attributes of the carbon cycle related to the 

2 biomass feedstock are taken into account. 

3 In the proposed FIP EPA has not suggested 

4 a specific method for how to assess those two 

5 factors. At most, EPA has hinted that some 

6 demonstration showing wood has been sustainably 

7 harvested from forests might be sufficient, but 

8 current forest sustainability's standards do not 

9 address the carbon balance. 

10 The fact that the Agency has not been 

11 able to identify a concrete approach for this 

12 important determination is a strong indicator 

13 that the inclusion of biomass derived fuels as a 

14 compliance strategy is not currently defensible. 

15 But more immediately, finalizing a FIP 

16 that allows the use of qualified biomass without 

17 proposing a specific approach for how the agency 

18 could determine which biomass feedstocks qualify 

19 and under what circumstances, would only further 

20 cement the unjustified conclusion that biomass 

21 burning has a role to play in reducing carbon 

22 emissions under the Clean Power Plan. 
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1 Moreover, if the FIP incentivizes waste 

2 incineration by allowing the biogenic fraction of 

3 incinerator feedstocks to be counted as carbon 

4 reduction, the result will be to heap additional 

5 burdens on minority, low income, and indigenous 

6 communities that have long borne the brunt of 

7 fossil fuel pollution and are likely to 

8 experience the worst impacts of climate change. 

9 Waste incinerators are often cited in 

10 these communities. And while some portion of the 

11 trash they combust is organic matter, that 

12 material is only a portion of the fuel mix. The 

13 rest may be highly contaminated with wastes and 

14 emit hazardous air pollutants when burned, 

15 including heavy metals and dioxin. 

16 Any incentives for burning biogenic waste 

17 would mean more garbage incineration overall, 

18 and, of course, we believe more heavy metals, 

19 more dioxin, and other hazardous air pollutants. 

20 In sum, while EPA has worked to issue 

21 this FIP will ensure real reduction in carbon 

22 pollution and the protection of public health, 
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1 the Agency must revise the final product to 

2 reflect the truth about biomass and waste 

3 burning, there are ways of generating electricity 

4 that can legitimately be called carbon neutral; 

5 but lumping biomass and waste burning into that 

6 category ignores the current science and creates 

7 a loophole that will erode the climate benefits 

8 of the Clean Power Plan while further threatening 

9 the health of the fence-line communities. 

10 Thanks again for the opportunity. 

11 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

12 Jon Cooper and Adam Hasz? 

13 And after this panel we will have Kim 

14 Noble and Michael Sandler. 

15 Hello. 

16 MR. COOPER: Good afternoon. Thank you 

17 for having me. My name is Jon, J-O-N; Cooper, 

18 C-O-O-P-E-R. I'm Ph.D, J.D. I'm a volunteer at 

19 this point environmental law professor at the 

20 University of District of Columbia and previously 

21 have -- over the last 40 years -- served in 

22 government, academia, and private industry on 
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1 environmental issues. 

2 I was at EPA, and I was in the 

3 environmental division with the Coast Guard for 

4 several years. 

5 MR. RUPP: Welcome back. 

6 MR. COOPER: So, as a professional I 

7 support this rule and believe that it's vitally 

8 important to push it forward. I also think it's 

9 very important that we make some changes and some 

10 of -- communication issues are solved. And so 

11 what I want to talk to you about today are three 

12 things: One, climate change; two, impact on poor 

13 communities; and three, communication changes in 

14 your analysis. 

15 The first one, I think is just very 

16 clear, but there's -- we've heard other speakers, 

17 and there's been a lot of press about whether 

18 climate change is real. And I just submit to you 

19 that there's three stages here. One, an argument 

20 over whether climate change is real. And I think 

21 most people have agreed now that that is true. 

22 The second stage is what is the role of 
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1 humankind in causing those climate changes and 

2 the -- again, the data are very supportive of the 

3 idea that we are either contributing or a major 

4 component in those climate changes. 

5 And so, I think the third phase is the 

6 where we are now which is many people argue that 

7 we don't know enough about what to do to prevent 

8 these changes, and, therefore, we shouldn't waste 

9 money making changes. I disagree with that, and 

10 I think this present plan shows that we do enough 

11 to make meaningful changes that can affect 

12 climate change. 

13 I remind you of the important -- the 

14 importance not only of climate change and what it 

15 can -- as many speakers have already talked to 

16 you about -- that can -- what can -- the impacts 

17 on humankind, but the precautionary principle 

18 that if we don't do something now, we may be too 

19 late, or -- and certainly we need to try to -- to 

20 minimize these efforts. 

21 And so, I would argue that even if it 

22 turns out to be somewhat ineffective or 
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1 inefficient in some of our efforts, that doing 

2 these efforts are very analogous to things that 

3 we needed to do in the past that have shown that 

4 were useful. 

5 I also want to speak very quickly -- and 

6 I'll get back to it a little bit more -- to the 

7 fact that it's a burden on the states. We -- we 

8 went through this exercise before in the Clean 

9 Water Act where we left all the -- the clean-up 

10 of rivers and so on to state implementation. And 

11 guess what. We got fires on the Cayuga River, 

12 and we got all kinds of things, and it became 

13 obvious that we needed federal direction. And we 

14 need to use federal direction to force the state 

15 work. I'll get back to SIPs in a minute. 

16 The second point I want to bring to you 

17 is the very important nexus between environmental 

18 law, this plan, and social justice. The -- as 

19 several -- many other people have indicated to 

20 you, there could be and there have been in the 

21 past undue impacts on poor communities; and -- 

22 and EPA recognizes this through their 
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1 environmental justice program which is thriving. 

2 And I'm -- and I applaud that work. 

3 However, as an example, the university -- 

4 at the law school we just held a conference on 

5 brainstorming on environmental law and social 

6 justice, and we were able to see the undue burden 

7 on poor people of utility changes that are 

8 happening. And so, we need to keep that in mind 

9 here. 

10 Now, of course, the utility changes 

11 happen at the local distributor levels, and 

12 that's where they pay their bills and so on, and 

13 things like that; but as an example, late fees, 

14 the increase in water bills right now are -- are 

15 enormously expensive. We've seen water bills go 

16 up 50 percent where obviously their incomes have 

17 not. And so we have to be mindful of the equity 

18 issues here in the -- in the implementation of 

19 the rule. 

20 I would submit to you that a lot of the 

21 trading ideas and the allowance ideas that are in 

22 the rule should result in some kind of -- some 
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1 kind of a fund to help poor communities. And 

2 we're very effective at doing that. For 

3 instance, the Clean Air Act itself, which this is 

4 coming out of, has all kinds of retraining funds 

5 and so on for soft coal miners and things like 

6 that. So there's a -- so there's certainly a lot 

7 of obvious -- 

8 MR. RUPP: Thirty seconds. 

9 MR. COOPER: Okay. 

10 And the -- the last point I want to make 

11 is that communications -- several other speakers 

12 -- and I've already mentioned Environmental 

13 Justice. I would like to see the document more 

14 accessible for many people. There's a lot of 

15 analyses that are not clear to me. For instance, 

16 I tried to feed -- feed together the 

17 environmental justice pieces that you have in 

18 there. They're not obvious, and I think that 

19 needs to be all rewritten. I think you care 

20 about that, but it needs to be redone. And the 

21 same thing goes for the economic analysis. 

22 My time is up, but thank you for the 
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1 opportunity to be here. 

2 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 

3 MR. HASZ: Hi. Adam Hasz, A-D-A-M, 

4 H-A-S-Z. And I'm a resident of Washington, D.C., 

5 and I lead a youth advocacy group called Sustain 

6 Us which works to advance justice and 

7 sustainability. 

8 I'm here to urge the EPA to act boldly on 

9 climate by creating a strong and just Federal 

10 Implementation Plan for the Clean Power Plan. As 

11 a young leader I believe that the strong federal 

12 standards for the Clean Power Plan are crucial to 

13 avert the worst consequences of the climate 

14 crisis which will disproportionately impact my 

15 generation and future generations to come. 

16 I speak in solidarity with these future 

17 generations to impress upon you the need for 

18 aggressive action on all fronts against this 

19 growing threat. And that means that if states 

20 refuse to create their own plans, the U.S. EPA 

21 should set just and ambitious standards and 

22 enforce that implementation for those states that 
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1 do not create their -- their own plans. 

2 According to recent polling, young people 

3 from both parties under the age of 35 strongly 

4 support action on climate change, and they want 

5 to elect leaders that will address that threat. 

6 For us, this is not a political issue; this is an 

7 issue of intergenerational justice, morality, and 

8 survival. Our generation also fundamentally 

9 disagrees that the contention that action against 

10 climate change would be bad for the economy. 

11 We know that climate is one of the 

12 greatest threats we've ever faced, but fighting 

13 it also creates a great opportunity for the 

14 economy. Young Americans under 35 currently have 

15 15 percent unemployment rate in this country -- 

16 sorry, that's 16 to 24 -- Americans 16 to 24 have 

17 a 15 percent unemployment rate in this country. 

18 This devastatingly high number could be 

19 reduced by taking a bold stance against climate 

20 change through employment opportunities 

21 associated with incentivizing renewable energy 

22 deployment, efficiency implementation, and other 
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1 initiatives to reduce our nation's impact on the 

2 planet. 

3 My vision for this country is a rapid and 

4 equitable transition to 100 percent renewable 

5 energy. The Federal Implementation Standards for 

6 the Clean Power Plan must not result in the 

7 increased or continued dependence on natural gas 

8 extracted through hydraulic fracturing. Further 

9 fossil fuel extraction would just stifle 

10 innovation, job growth, and economic development 

11 that would result in holding back our transition 

12 to 100 percent renewable energy. 

13 I ask the EPA to set scientifically 

14 defensible Federal Implementation standards for 

15 existing power plants that are truly protective 

16 of my generation's inherent right to survival and 

17 also put the nation on a path towards 100 percent 

18 renewable energy as soon as possible. 

19 In particular, these standards must 

20 ensure that carbon pollution in the Model Federal 

21 Plan achieve the pollution reductions promised in 

22 the Final Clean Power Plan but just as a minimum. 
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1 Preferably, they should be a lot more. Ensure 

2 that states address potential carbon pollution 

3 from new power plants to achieve overall electric 

4 sector reductions in carbon pollution. 

5 Protect low income communities by 

6 maximizing utilities incentives to invest in 

7 energy efficiency which lowers energy bills, 

8 ensure that the Model Plan protects and benefits 

9 minority communities, low income communities, and 

10 indigenous communities that have long borne the 

11 brunt of fossil fuel pollution and will be most 

12 likely to experience the impacts of climate 

13 change firsthand. 

14 And finally, resist give-aways of 

15 allowances to the most polluting sources. 

16 More than any other crisis, climate 

17 change threatens our shared future. I urge you 

18 to set just and strong federal standards that 

19 protect vulnerable communities and generations to 

20 come. 

21 If done right, these standards can be a 

22 crucial catalyst in moving towards shared 
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1 prosperity and 100 percent renewable energy 

2 economy. Thank you. 

3 MR. RUPP: Thank you. Kim Noble and 

4 Michael Sandler. 

5 And after this panel we'll have James 

6 Duffy and Dustin White. 

7 MS. NOBLE: Good afternoon. I'm Kim 

8 Noble. I'm -- N-O-B-L-E. I'm the Director of 

9 National Partnerships for Green for All. Thank 

10 you for this opportunity to comment on the 

11 proposed Federal Plan and Model Rules for the 

12 Clean Power Plan. 

13 Green for All was created with a vision 

14 that you can and should fight poverty and 

15 pollution at the same time. Our mission remains 

16 the same -- to build an inclusive green economy 

17 strong enough to lift people out of poverty. The 

18 trailblazers of the environmental justice 

19 movement worked tirelessly and continue to do so 

20 to bring to the forefront the gross environmental 

21 degradation that people of color and poor people 

22 have long faced and continue to face every day. 
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1 Green for All's work is really rooted in 

2 bridging the gap between vulnerability and 

3 opportunity by improving environmental quality in 

4 communities most affected by climate change, 

5 unemployment, and poverty. 

6 Equity must be at the center of policies 

7 addressing climate change. The Federal Plan 

8 should include policy choices and implementation 

9 approaches that specifically take equity into 

10 account. This is especially important in the 

11 allocation of limited resources such as pollution 

12 allowances. 

13 Green for All applauds the EPA for 

14 recognizing that there are important equity 

15 considerations in how the value of pollution 

16 allowances are allocated by a government agency. 

17 EPA requested comment on alternatives to 

18 giving away virtually all the valuable pollution 

19 allowances to polluters for free. We look 

20 forward to engaging on this topic to ensure the 

21 Clean Power Plan generates value and economic 

22 opportunities for communities. 
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1 Communities of color and communities with 

2 low incomes must receive net environmental and 

3 economic benefits. The allowances created and 

4 any revenues generated by the implementation of 

5 the Clean Power Plan should be used to ensure 

6 disproportionately impacted communities receive 

7 net economic and environmental benefits. 

8 Policies or programs within the Federal 

9 Implementation Plan, in addition to any revenues 

10 committed to or generated by such programs should 

11 maximize environmental, social, and economic 

12 benefits in impacted communities. 

13 Thank you for the opportunity to comment. 

14 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

15 MR. SANDLER: Hi, my name Mike Sandler. 

16 I live in Springfield, Virginia. I am a co17 founder of the Center for Climate Protection 

18 based in California. In that role I engaged in 

19 the public process around the carbon market 

20 design of AB 32 for several years. I also have a 

21 website at CarbonShare.org. 

22 And I would like to build on the comments 
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1 of Green For All. I also believe that equity is 

2 a very important aspect, and I hope my comments 

3 will emphasize that. 

4 So I have submitted some written 

5 comments, and I'll just be reading from that 

6 mostly, but I might add a few things that I’m 

7 thinking of right now as well. 

8 The four design elements that I 

9 encouraged California to adopt in their market 

10 design were, first, to regulate upstream fossil 

11 fuel production or import. Second, to auction 

12 100 percent of permits rather than giving them 

13 away. Three -- third, is to return all or most 

14 of the revenue from the auction proceeds back to 

15 the public following the Cap and Dividend Model. 

16 And four is to include a price floor on the 

17 allowances. 

18 And California does have a price floor on 

19 their allowances, and I believe that's probably 

20 the best aspect of their market design. That's 

21 the reason why their permit price is around $12 a 

22 ton and not 3 or something, whatever the European 
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1 market has been really low. You know, all these 

2 other market prices have been very low; and 

3 California's is relatively high. And it's 

4 because of the price floor. 

5 So, some of the areas that the EPA asked 

6 for comment on -- first, is mass-based versus 

7 rate-based. And it seems like mass-based is the 

8 way to go. I don't know what the benefits to 

9 rate-based would be, but it seems like mass-based 

10 is more straightforward and easier for both 

11 industry and EPA. 

12 Second, regarding grandfathering 

13 allowances or giving the allowances free to 

14 historic emissions. I'm very strongly encourage 

15 or urge the EPA to auction 100 percent of 

16 allowances and put that in the Model Rule and 

17 also to include a price floor on the allowance 

18 price. 

19 The SO2 trading system was a give-away. 

20 All the allowances went straight to those 

21 regulated entities, and you may hear from some 

22 economists who say it doesn't matter, but it 
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1 makes a big difference to the people because 

2 you're basically enriching certain companies, and 

3 it's -- the value of those allowances is actually 

4 part of the public trust. 

5 The concept is who owns the sky? We all 

6 do. It's a commons that we all share. And those 

7 allowances do not belong to those companies. 

8 They belong to the people, and the people are 

9 allowing those companies to, you know, use those 

10 permits or to buy those permits. And for that 

11 the people should be compensated with the value 

12 being returned as a dividend. 

13 And that's being done in Alaska. It's a 

14 slightly different system. It's not a carbon 

15 price per se, but it's called the Alaska 

16 Permanent Fund. And that's sort of the model 

17 that the Cap and Dividend Approach has taken. 

18 They looked at what the Alaska Permanent Fund is, 

19 and if you know anyone who lives in Alaska, they 

20 receive one or two thousand dollars a year. It 

21 has bi-partisan support. Sarah Palin is a big 

22 supporter of it. And it's -- actually functions 
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1 in a way as a basic income, which is another term 

2 you may hear in the social justice community. A 

3 few thousand dollars really helps the lowest 

4 income people the most. And people that have 

5 high carbon footprint will just pay that in the 

6 carbon price. They'll pay the money back into 

7 the system and -- if they're flying around a lot 

8 or doing other high carbon intensive activities. 

9 So I see I've got yellow, so I'm going to 

10 jump ahead. 

11 You have some set asides listed in the 

12 Model Rule. There's three types of set asides 

13 for a clean energy incentive, supporting 

14 renewable energy and updating. And I don't think 

15 you'll need any of that if you auction. So, 

16 there's no need to do complicated set asides. 

17 That's one of the problems with the grandfathered 

18 allowance approach. So if you auction, you won't 

19 need to do that. 

20 I already mentioned the third-party 

21 climate trust. Oh, the benefit of the third22 party climate trust is that money can't be paid 
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1 to EPA because it would go straight to the U.S. 

2 Treasury. So it's important to have a third3 party climate trust that could handle the funds 

4 and at least set up -- you could set those up at 

5 a state level. 

6 The State of Oregon is looking at that 

7 right now. It's OregonClimate.org. They're 

8 looking into a state-based climate trust where 

9 it's revenue neutral, and the money wouldn't have 

10 to go to the state. So -- 

11 MR. RUPP: We're at time. 

12 MR. SANDLER: -- I think I'm out of time, 

13 so thank you for accepting my comments. 

14 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. And 

15 thanks for giving us the written comments as 

16 well. 

17 James Duffy and Dustin White. Following 

18 them will be Malin Moench. 

19 MR. DUFFY: Good afternoon. My name is 

20 Jay Duffy. I'm an associate attorney with the 

21 Clean Air Task Force. 

22 CATF commends EPA for taking this 
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1 important next step toward reducing carbon 

2 pollution from existing power plants, the 

3 nation's largest source of anthropogenic carbon 

4 dioxide. 

5 Finalizing the Model Rule and Federal 

6 Plan will ease compliance with the Clean Power 

7 Plan and help facilitate meaningful carbon 

8 reduction. 

9 Today I'm only to focus on three key 

10 areas and recommendations. Mass-based plans 

11 offer significant advantages over rate-based 

12 plans. Addressing leakage is crucial to the 

13 integrity of the Clean Power Plan. And burning 

14 biomass is an inappropriate compliance measure. 

15 Carbon dioxide contributes significantly 

16 to climate change and climate change induced 

17 harms to public health and welfare, including 

18 respiratory, cardiovascular disease, injuries and 

19 premature deaths related to extreme weather 

20 events, changes in the prevalence and geographic 

21 distribution of food and water-borne illnesses 

22 and other infectious diseases, and even threats 
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1 to mental health. 

2 Uncontrolled fossil fuel power plants 

3 emit carbon dioxide in large amounts, nearly 

4 three times as much as the total greenhouse gases 

5 from the next 10 largest emitting industrial 

6 sectors combined. 

7 Furthermore, once emitted, carbon dioxide 

8 is a very long-lived -- is very long-lived. A 

9 significant percentage of each ton emitted 

10 remains aloft, causing climate harm for thousands 

11 of years. 

12 These two facts alone make near-term 

13 emission reductions imperative in order to 

14 mitigate the effects of continuing dangerous 

15 rates of accumulation and associated damage. 

16 CATF's view is that a Final Model Rule 

17 and Federal based -- Federal Plan based on mass 

18 allowance trading would offer significant 

19 advantages over the rate-based plan. These 

20 include certainty of emission reductions, 

21 simplicity, ease of compliance and 

22 administration, enforceability, transparency, the 
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1 advantage of experience, and consistency in -- 

2 consistency with present and future carbon 

3 policies. 

4 A mass-based rule would also provide 

5 states with the ability to allocate allowance for 

6 various public purposes. And, most importantly, 

7 a mass-based system limits carbon pollution from 

8 existing power plants to a known and fixed 

9 amount. 

10 Further, finalizing a mass-based 

11 allowance trading Federal Implementation Plan is 

12 squarely within EPA's authority under the Clean 

13 Air Act. And similar programs for reducing air 

14 pollution have been successfully implemented by 

15 EPA in the States for over 15 years. For 

16 example, allowance trading mechanisms were used 

17 by the electric generating sector to comply with 

18 EPA's 1998 NOx SIP Call, promulgated under the 

19 related 110 SIP process. 

20 The Clean Power Plan's state targets are 

21 based on existing coal fired power plants 

22 increasing their efficiency and generation from 
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1 existing natural gas plants and renewable energy 

2 substituting carbon intensive generation at 

3 existing power plants. However, to meet these 

4 targets, EPA must take measures to ensure that 

5 the Federal Plan and Model Rule minimizes 

6 incentives to shift generation from affected 

7 sources to non-affected sources that emit carbon. 

8 In particular, the carbon -- the Clean 

9 Power Plan will add compliance costs in the form 

10 of a carbon price to operating existing natural 

11 gas power plants that it will not add to new 

12 natural gas plants. There will, therefore, be an 

13 incentive to shift generation from existing 

14 plants to newly built plants whose emissions will 

15 not be limited by the mass cap. This is an 

16 example of the leakage problem -- only one 

17 example. 

18 EPA has suggested two methods of 

19 containing the -- constraining this type of 

20 leakage, including both new and existing fossil 

21 units under the states' mass-based cap, which 

22 they don't believe they can do under the FIP; or 
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1 allocating specific set asides of allowances to 

2 existing natural gas plants, creating a counter 

3 incentive for leakage to new gas plants. 

4 In addition, EPA also suggests that 

5 states can make their own showing that leakage 

6 will not occur. 

7 CATF thinks that the Model Rule should 

8 reflect a strong preference for states to include 

9 both new and existing sources under the mass10 based caps. In addition, we are concerned that 

11 states choosing to comply via an existing only 

12 cap may find the proposed set aside provisions 

13 inadequate to stem possible leakage. 

14 We're going to discuss this leakage along 

15 with others in more detail in our written 

16 comments. 

17 CATF supports EPA's decision to exclude 

18 biomass burning from the list of kinds of 

19 renewable energy presumptively eligible for 

20 emission reduction credits or ERCs. Under the 

21 Federal Plan it urges the Agency to also exclude 

22 biomass in the Model Rule because burning most 
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1 forms of biomass results in higher carbon dioxide 

2 emissions per kilowatt generated than burning 

3 coal or natural gas. Furthermore, the difficulty 

4 and complexity of accounting for all emissions 

5 associated with biomass fuel preclude any 

6 quantification of biomass ERCS with the same 

7 level of reliability, precision, and transparency 

8 that EPA uses to support the issuance of ERCs to 

9 wind, solar, geothermal, and others. 

10 I thank you for your time and opportunity 

11 to comment today. And we look forward to 

12 continue to work with you. 

13 MR. RUPP: Thank you. And Chris has a 

14 clarifying question. 

15 MR. SHERRHY: Yes, I had a clarifying 

16 question. 

17 You mentioned that the Model Rule should 

18 include -- you said a strong preference for 

19 inclusion of -- of new sources. Could you 

20 elaborate on that a little bit? Are you talking 

21 about specific provisions that speak to that or 

22 optional provisions, or how do you see that being 
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1 addressed in -- 

2 MR. DUFFY: A Model Rule -- because 

3 obviously the Model Rule can -- will be something 

4 that will be streamlined and a state will be able 

5 to, you know, get pretty much prior approval. 

6 So, a -- you know, a existing and new cap could 

7 be one of those -- you know, you submit a new and 

8 existing, and that checks the box for leakage. 

9 MR. SHERRHY: So, essentially just 

10 regulatory provisions that spell out the 

11 inclusion of new sources -- 

12 MR. DUFFY: Exactly. 

13 MR. SHERRHY: -- that a state could 

14 choose to adopt? 

15 MR. DUFFY: Yes. 

16 MR. SHERRHY: Okay. Thank you. 

17 MR. WHITE: My name is Dustin White. 

18 D-U-S-T-I-N, W-H-I-T-E. 

19 And I am a community organizer with the 

20 Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition out of West 

21 Virginia. We will be submitting more detailed 

22 written comments, but I am here today to talk as 
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1 a life-long resident of West Virginia. I am no 

2 scientist nor do I hold any type of special 

3 degree, so I will not be quoting numbers, but I 

4 know that climate change is real and that fossil 

5 fuels are harmful to human health. 

6 You have already heard from some of my 

7 fellow West Virginians, and like them, I commend 

8 the EPA and the Obama Administration on their 

9 actions to curtail carbon emissions. 

10 I grew up in Boone County, West Virginia, 

11 one of the top coal-producing counties in the 

12 state, and I am the son of a coal miner. So I am 

13 no stranger to the human health and environmental 

14 impacts of coal. 

15 I work in communities where coal, on a 

16 daily basis, is violently ripped from the ground 

17 and mountains are blown up. I hope that when the 

18 EPA thinks about cutting carbon emissions, you 

19 are considering the full life cycle of the energy 

20 source. Just because it burns cleaner does not 

21 mean the extraction process is cleaner. 

22 I hope that you are considering the 
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1 communities that are impacted by the wake of the 

2 extraction process from the Powder River basin to 

3 the Navajo Nation and to the communities where 

4 they mine uranium for nuclear power. 

5 My home of West Virginia has already been 

6 ravaged by coal and is now under threat by the 

7 natural gas industry. I know that the EPA's 

8 actions to protect our health and environment 

9 have been under attack. I know that the charge 

10 against the EPA and President Obama has been 

11 mostly led by West Virginia politicians and the 

12 national and state coal associations in their 

13 mythical war on coal campaign. 

14 I want to go on public record as saying 

15 that the West Virginia politicians are not 

16 working for the people but for the industry. And 

17 for those who attack the EPA, do it for one 

18 reason and one reason only -- greed. The fact is 

19 most of the coal mined in West Virginia is 

20 metallurgical coal sent to other countries. It 

21 is not being burned in power plants. Their 

22 arguments about job loss is false. 
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1 At this point saying you want to save 

2 coal in Appalachia is like saying save the dodo 

3 bird. Even the President of our electric company 

4 in West Virginia, Appalachian Power admitted that 

5 it's market costs killing the coal industry, not 

6 regulations. 

7 I know that our politicians in Congress 

8 are working to undermine -- no pun intended -- 

9 the EPA's progress. And I want it to be known 

10 that my organization is one that will be an 

11 intervener in the D.C. Circuit Court for the West 

12 Virginia Attorney General's lawsuit against the 

13 Clean Power Plan. We are on your side. We have 

14 had enough of coal's tyrannical regime and no 

15 longer want to be a resource colony for the 

16 nation. 

17 And we would be -- and there would be 

18 more West Virginians here to tell you this if 

19 coal hadn't already left them impoverished and 

20 sick. And the gas industry will only make it 

21 worse. 

22 When it comes to this rule I hope the EPA 
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1 has thought through how to enforce it. West 

2 Virginia has a long history of not enforcing 

3 regulations. Trusting them to do so would only 

4 continue the fox watching the hen house mentality 

5 that for over 150 years have allowed the coal 

6 industry to poison our water and air; and they 

7 are now allowing the gas industry to do the same. 

8 For the sake of the climate and the state 

9 I love, I hope the EPA and the President stand 

10 strong against the greedy fossil fuel industries 

11 that want to destroy our planet for profit. 

12 Thank you. 

13 MR. RUPP: Thank you. Thank you both. 

14 Marlin [sic] Moerch [sic] and Benjamin 

15 Levitan. 

16 If you've joined us recently, just to 

17 note that we'll be keeping time here. When the 

18 light turns yellow, you've got one minute, and 

19 then five minute is over at red. Please. 

20 MR. MOENCH: Okay. First of all, the 

21 name is Malin Moench. 

22 MR. RUPP: Malin. I'm sorry. 
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1 MR. MOENCH: And it's a German name, and 

2 I can't really even pronounce it myself. 

3 (Laughter.) 

4 MR. MOENCH: But I'll have good things to 

5 say about Germany at the end of my remarks if 

6 there is still time. 

7 I represent a group of activist 

8 physicians, Utah Physicians for a Healthy 

9 Environment. There are about 300 physicians in 

10 Utah. It turns out they're led -- the President 

11 is my brother, and my other brother's Vice12 President. They do quite a lot of research and 

13 activist work in Utah, trying to clean the air 

14 there. 

15 I am not a physician, but I have a degree 

16 in economics and law, both. And I live in D.C., 

17 so they use me when they want to speak to the 

18 EPA, typically. 

19 Although not a physician myself, I am 

20 told by our doctors -- and this is just the one 

21 medical thing I'll get into before I get into the 

22 guts of the Federal Plan. 
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1 There's an Italian study recently that 

2 .19 micrograms per deciliter of lead -- 

3 atmospheric lead. Now this is -- this is blood 

4 serum lead, but it -- the source of it is 

5 atmospheric lead. It only takes .19 micrograms 

6 of lead in blood serum in Italian teenagers to 

7 lower their IQ by one point. And because the 

8 concentration of blood serum in Italian teenagers 

9 averages 1.79, what that means is the failure to 

10 control lead emitted by coal fired power plants 

11 in Italy and most of the rest of Western Europe 

12 has lowered the IQ of Italian teenagers by 9 

13 points. 

14 Now, if you add the fact that the toxic 

15 -- the effect of mercury which comes from the 

16 atmosphere almost entirely from burning coal for 

17 electric power generation -- mercury -- lab 

18 studies show is even more toxic to the nervous 

19 system. And if you add the exposure in the 

20 developed economies of the world, Italy, United 

21 States, most of Western Europe, the average 

22 exposure to both lead and mercury as a result of 
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1 living near or breathing the air that is 

2 conditioned or polluted by coal fired power 

3 plants, you reduce the IQ of children by 14 to 15 

4 points. That's a full standard deviation. 

5 And if you want to calculate what the 

6 benefits of cleaning that emissions up are, 

7 consider that if you reduce the average IQ of the 

8 labor force by a full standard deviation, you 

9 will reduce their ability to earn wages by 15 

10 percent according to studies. 

11 Now, if you consider that the total wages 

12 and salaries in the U.S. annually is 12 trillion, 

13 and if you add benefits, up to 16 trillion. If 

14 you take 15 percent of that, you are easily above 

15 a trillion dollars that you would benefit from 

16 labor productivity if you were to clean up the 

17 emissions from coal fired power plants. 

18 So you see all of these estimates of what 

19 the benefits of the Clean Power Plan are, they're 

20 miniscule compared to calculating the effect on 

21 worker productivity from cleaning up the 

22 neurotoxins that come from electric -- from coal 
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1 fired power plants to produce electricity. 

2 Okay. Now to get to the more germane 

3 issue of what's good and what isn't about the 

4 Federal Rule. 

5 Am I halfway through? 

6 MR. RUPP: One minute. 

7 MR. MOENCH: Oh, almost through. Okay. 

8 We're here as a cheerleader for the Final 

9 Rule. The Federal Rule in particular is good 

10 because it has made it so simple compared to the 

11 proposed rule to do interstate trading, 

12 especially under the mass-based approach. You 

13 don't have to, any more, set up a regional 

14 organization and join. You don't have to 

15 coordinate the state goals with another state. 

16 You have these allowances that are so simple to 

17 calculate that it's easy to get apples to apples. 

18 And you're able to set up this certification of 

19 interstate trading that's part of the Final 

20 Federal Plan. 

21 So, in effect what you get is cap and 

22 trade that has happened under the acid rain 
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1 regime -- almost the same thing as that. The 

2 beauty of that is that you don't need much in the 

3 way of cooperation from these what I call hell 

4 nosed state legislatures who will just do nothing 

5 whatsoever to facilitate the implementation of 

6 the Clean Power Plan. So for that reason we are 

7 in favor of mass-based being the default in the 

8 Federal Plan, but there are two problems with 

9 mass-based. 

10 MR. RUPP: Sir, I apologize. We are at 

11 time. Do you have written comments that you can 

12 submit? 

13 MR. MOENCH: I'll submit written comments 

14 later. 

15 MR. RUPP: Do you want to take one 

16 sentence in summary? 

17 MR. MOENCH: Okay. You don't have 

18 allowances for efficiency; and you don't have 

19 allowances for storage. And those are key 

20 elements of being able to get away from coal in 

21 the future. 

22 And I have a lot more to say about that 
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1 in written comments, but the mass-based is best. 

2 It's simplest. It's going to work, but it's not 

3 best because it doesn't have the incentives in 

4 there for efficiency, programs, and for storage. 

5 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 

6 MR. LEVITAN: Thank you. I'm Ben Levitan 

7 -- L-E-V-I-T-A-N -- representing the 

8 Environmental Defense Fund. 

9 The EPA's Clean Power Plan, or CPP, is a 

10 vital step forward to help address climate change 

11 and will yield benefits of $26 to $45 billion 

12 annually once fully implemented. It is expected 

13 to save 3,600 lives and prevent 90,000 asthma 

14 attacks every year. 

15 The Environmental Defense Fund, EDF, 

16 thanks EPA for finalizing these historic limits 

17 on our nation's single largest source of carbon 

18 pollution. EDF encourages states to seize the 

19 opportunity they have under the CPP to develop 

20 their own state plans tailored to their unique 

21 opportunities for innovation and cost savings. 

22 We encourage EPA to finalize the Model 
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1 Rule frameworks as soon as possible to help 

2 support Smart State planning efforts. In 

3 particular, we strongly encourage EPA to consider 

4 whether some components of the Model Rules can be 

5 finalized shortly after the comment period closes 

6 in order to provide states even more clarity as 

7 they work to develop their plans. 

8 Standardized Model Rules will provide 

9 important guidance to states and help them 

10 develop strong plans that ensure environmental 

11 integrity. Model Rule frameworks can help cut 

12 down on the administrative work necessary for 

13 states, allowing states to focus on the 

14 customizable components of their implementation 

15 efforts that are most important to their 

16 stakeholders. 

17 In addition, finalized Model Rules will 

18 help facilitate interstate trading by doing the 

19 heavy lifting on detailed underpinnings of 

20 emissions trading programs which can help drive 

21 innovation and cost savings. 

22 In particular, the trading-ready feature 
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1 of the Model Rules provides an important 

2 opportunity for states to adopt a state plan that 

3 is compatible with others. 

4 Should states decline to carry out their 

5 responsibilities to protect human health and the 

6 environment from damaging carbon pollution, it is 

7 EPA's responsibility to do so. This is the 

8 compelling bipartisan vision of the Clean Air 

9 Act, that all Americans are entitled to the 

10 protections of clean air under the law. To 

11 realize that vision EPA must ensure that real 

12 world emissions reductions are secured when 

13 states decline to do so. 

14 EDF urges EPA to finalize a Federal Plan 

15 that puts federal protections in place swiftly 

16 when a state declines to act. We are in a race 

17 against time, and climate safeguards cannot wait. 

18 Moreover, quickly understanding the Federal Plan 

19 parameters will provide important certainty for 

20 businesses. 

21 In addition, we support EPA's proposal to 

22 issue a Federal Plan for any state that does not 
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1 meet one of the interim state planning 

2 milestones. We urge EPA to do so within one year 

3 or less. 

4 It is also essential that EPA ensure a 

5 Federal Plan is promptly issued in cases where a 

6 state is not implementing its plan and fails to 

7 take corrective action. This Federal Plan must 

8 fully account for any forgone emission 

9 reductions. 

10 We also urge EPA to put in place 

11 effective federal limits on carbon pollution when 

12 a state declines to carry out its 

13 responsibilities. That means EPA must adopt 

14 enforceable limits on the volume of climate 

15 pollution discharged by effective power plants as 

16 well as strong measures to ensure that these 

17 limits are not circumvented and generate real 

18 reductions across the power sector. 

19 Any finalized federal plan should be 

20 trading ready so companies can retain maximum 

21 flexibility to secure least cost emissions 

22 reductions. 
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1 Furthermore, even in the context of a 

2 Federal Plan, EPA should offer opportunities to 

3 work in partnership with the state. For example, 

4 EPA can allow a state to customize certain 

5 modular elements of the Federal Plan so long as 

6 it does not undermine environmental integrity. 

7 In addition, EPA could allow a state to 

8 carry out implementation an enforcement of the 

9 Federal Plan. Moreover, a state should always 

10 have the option to stop in and replace federal 

11 control with an individualized state plan. 

12 We urge EPA to finalize its Clean Energy 

13 Incentive Program, or CEIP. It is essential that 

14 there are incentives for early action to reduce 

15 carbon pollution before the 2022 start of the CPP 

16 so that we can continue the progress America is 

17 already making to address carbon pollution from 

18 the power sector. 

19 We support EPA's commitment to design the 

20 CEIP to encourage additional reductions and not 

21 reduce program stringency. In addition, EPA 

22 should take care in laying out its definition of 
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1 low income efficiency supporting authentic 

2 community engagement in CEIP design processes, 

3 and providing appropriate technical guidance in 

4 order to ensure that programs are judiciously 

5 targeted and fully leveraged to benefit low 

6 income communities. Thank you. 

7 MR. RUPP: Thank you. Ingrid Schwingler? 

8 MS. SCHWINGLER: You actually got my last 

9 name right. 

10 MR. RUPP: Oh, good. Unlike with Malin. 

11 You've got the whole table, but you still have 

12 five minutes. 

13 MS. SCHWINGLER: Noted. 

14 Yes, I'm Ingrid Schwingler with Grid 

15 Alternatives. That's I-N-G-R-I-D, 

16 S-C-H-W-I-N-G-L-E-R. 

17 I'm a Policy and Regulatory Coordinator 

18 with Grid Alternatives. We are a -- the nation's 

19 largest non-profit solar installer exclusively 

20 serving low income families and affordable 

21 housing owners through residential, multifamily, 

22 and community shared solar installations, using a 
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1 barn-raising installation model, grid trains and 

2 leads teams of job trainees and other volunteers 

3 to install solar electric systems in partnership 

4 with a national network of affordable housing 

5 developers, energy efficiency providers, local 

6 government agencies, work force development 

7 programs, and solar industry partners. 

8 Since 2001 Grid has installed 6,000 solar 

9 systems with a combined installed capacity of 

10 20.6 megawatts, saving 157 million in lifetime 

11 electricity costs, preventing 457,000 tons of 

12 greenhouse gas emissions, and providing over 

13 23,500 people with solar training. 

14 Working with policymakers, regulators, 

15 and other stakeholders, Grid Alternatives had 

16 proven that effective solutions can be developed 

17 for greater adoption of renewable energy and low 

18 income communities. 

19 The Clean Power Plan represents an 

20 unprecedented opportunity to address the 

21 environmental inequities in the most impacted 

22 communities. The Federal Implementation Plan 
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1 should take full advantage of this opportunity by 

2 adopting policies, including low income solar 

3 policies that make long term investments into 

4 communities disproportionately burdened by 

5 pollution and economic stress. 

6 In the Clean Energy Incentive Program 

7 Grid Alternatives notes low income solar programs 

8 are not incentivized or treated differently from 

9 general market solar programs, nor are low income 

10 solar programs included in the energy efficiency 

11 definition for low income communities. 

12 Therefore, we strongly encourage the Federal Plan 

13 and Model Rules to provide guidance to states and 

14 encourage adoption of low income solar programs 

15 specifically. 

16 The allowances created and any revenues 

17 generated by the implementation of the Clean 

18 Power Plan should be used to ensure 

19 disproportionately impacted communities receive 

20 net economic and environmental benefits, 

21 including through low income solar programs. 

22 Low income solar policies or programs 
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1 within the Federal Implementation Plan, in 

2 addition to any revenues committed to or 

3 generated by such programs will maximize 

4 environmental, social, and economic benefits in 

5 impacted communities. 

6 Low income solar programs expand access 

7 to solar for everyone as well as increase the 

8 benefits already received from strengthened 

9 energy efficiency measures. The Federal Plan and 

10 Model Rules will be utilized as a framework and 

11 template across the nation. And we ask that you 

12 promote low income solar in these models as the 

13 already-proven and effective solution for greater 

14 adoption of renewable energy in low income 

15 communities. Thank you. 

16 MR. RUPP: Yes. Thank you very much. 

17 We are going to take a brief recess here 

18 and come back in about five minutes. 

19 (Brief recess.) 

20 MR. RUPP: And if you could just say your 

21 name and spell it for the record, and then just 

22 to note that Chris will be keeping time here. 
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1 When the light turns yellow, that will be at four 

2 minutes, and they you'll have one more minute, 

3 and the red light will go on at five minutes. 

4 MS. ABEL: Okay. Terrific. 

5 My name is Jennifer Abel. That's spelled 

6 J-E-N-N-I-F-E-R; last name is A-B-E-L. 

7 I'm a resident of Arlington, Virginia, 

8 and I'm deeply concerned about the issue of 

9 climate change. I think this is the most serious 

10 issue that's affecting our planet today. And I'm 

11 very encouraged and excited to see that the EPA 

12 has taken action by proposing the Clean Power 

13 Plan, and I urge swift implementation of the 

14 plan. 

15 I actually just came from a gathering 

16 just down the street at the Department of Justice 

17 today where several groups assembled to present 

18 more than 360,000 signed petitions to Loretta 

19 Lynch at the Department of Justice, calling on 

20 the DOJ to investigate Exxon for having known 

21 decades ago about climate change and rather than 

22 doing anything about it, deceiving the public. 
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1 So I think there's -- there's a clear 

2 knowledge among the scientific community and even 

3 among the fossil fuel industry that climate 

4 change is a real and pervasive, and threatening 

5 issue that will threaten all sectors of life and 

6 all facets of -- of life for people and for the 

7 other inhabitants of our planet. And it's 

8 something that we urgently need to address and 

9 need to focus on. And so for that reason I -- I 

10 urge swift implementation, and even, if possible, 

11 stronger -- stronger regulations than what have 

12 been proposed. And I -- and I applaud the EPA 

13 for -- for proposing these measures. 

14 Thank you for your time. 

15 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 

16 Thanks for being here, Courtenay. And 

17 just quickly, Chris Sherrhy here is managing 

18 time. And so you will see you're afforded five 

19 minutes. And so, at four minutes a yellow light 

20 will shine. That indicates you've got one more 

21 minute, and then the red light will indicate the 

22 end of the five minutes. 
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1 MS. LEWIS: Thank you. Well, thank you 

2 so much for the opportunity to testify. 

3 My name is Courtenay Lewis. That’s 

4 C-O-U-R-T-E-N-A-Y, L-E-W-I-S. 

5 I'm a dual British-American citizen. I 

6 grew up in England, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, 

7 and the U.S. I worked as an organizer on the 

8 2008 Obama campaign, and I proudly worked on the 

9 Obama Administration at the Department of the 

10 Interior. 

11 I now work at the Sierra Club, the oldest 

12 and largest grassroots environmental organization 

13 in the country. Thank you for this opportunity. 

14 This summer the Obama Administration and 

15 the EPA finalized the Clean Power Plan. As 

16 states consider how to design and implement these 

17 rules, I'd like to speak a little bit about an 

18 experience of mine as relates to climate change. 

19 A few years ago I earned a Masters Degree 

20 in Environmental Change and Management from the 

21 University of Oxford. As part of my research I 

22 traveled to the District of Humla, Nepal, one of 
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1 the rural districts of Nepal, where I studied the 

2 health and environmental impacts of indoor 

3 cooking devices. 

4 While my research focused on the health 

5 and environmental risks of indoor fires, it was 

6 the rapidly changing climate that is most struck 

7 with me. In Humla the temperatures were 

8 extremely and atypically warm, and the monsoons 

9 had been delayed for months. People's crops were 

10 dying. Glacial melting from the Himalayas was 

11 causing mountain flooding. Many people were 

12 already living season-to-season, surviving on the 

13 flood -- excuse me, surviving on the food they 

14 grew outside their homes and the water that came 

15 from the glaciers. That food and water was 

16 diminishing. 

17 Parents in Humla told me their dream was 

18 for their children to leave Humla because the 

19 place where they, their parents, and their 

20 grandparents had lived was becoming unfamiliar 

21 and hostile. Their children may enter the 

22 growing community of climate refugees. 
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1 People in Humla are not responsible for 

2 the climate crisis. In Humla there are no paved 

3 roads, no cars, no coal fired power plants; yet 

4 they are at the front lines of its impacts. And 

5 the United States, one of the world's wealthiest 

6 countries has a responsibility and the 

7 opportunity to rapidly lower our emissions and to 

8 demonstrate our commitment to confronting the 

9 global climate crisis. 

10 Implementing the Clean Power Plan is 

11 critical. We must address the climate crisis in 

12 ways that lower pollution impacting low community 

13 and minority communities who have historically 

14 borne the brunt of our fossil fuel dependency. 

15 We must seek solutions that create jobs and 

16 energy efficiency and in renewable energy 

17 research development and manufacturing. 

18 Climate change and pollution from fossil 

19 fuel use exacerbate problems that already plague 

20 our country, like racial inequality, 

21 environmental injustice, and lack of 

22 manufacturing job opportunities. 
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1 Implementing the Clean Power Plan, 

2 combined with other policies will help us move 

3 closer to a country that is more just and 

4 equitable. It's time to say no to a system that 

5 contributes to destabilizing the global climate, 

6 creating climate refugees, while it sickens 

7 communities in the U.S. 

8 It's time to stop giving tens of billions 

9 of dollars in fossil fuel subsidies to the 

10 companies that are fueling the climate crisis 

11 while also -- which also are some of the 

12 wealthiest companies in the world. It's time for 

13 members of Congress to stop pulling theatrical 

14 stunts with snowballs that seek to delegitimize 

15 this crisis. 

16 It's time to lead by example recognizing 

17 that we have historically contributed 

18 disproportionately to climate change. It's time 

19 for the Clean Power Plan to move forward to set a 

20 precedent that the rest of our economy can 

21 follow. 

22 The window to act on climate change grows 
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1 smaller every day. In two weeks world leaders 

2 will gather in Paris, aiming to reach a climate 

3 agreement that will set us on a path towards a 

4 stable climate. It's time for us to lead in more 

5 than creating climate emissions. 

6 Implementing the Clean Power Plan at the 

7 federal and state level is critical to showing 

8 our commitment to fighting climate change and to 

9 making our own country more equitable. Thank 

10 you. 

11 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 

12 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. I'm ready. Okay. 

13 MR. RUPP: Welcome, Joe. And as with 

14 Courtenay, I'll remind you that Chris is keeping 

15 time here for your five minutes. The yellow 

16 light will indicate you have one more minute, and 

17 red will indicate that your five minutes is over. 

18 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. Good. So when 

19 you're ready to start. 

20 MR. RUPP: Please. 

21 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. I am Joe Slovinec 

22 of Washington, D.C. Kelsey Crane of the Sierra 
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1 Club of Northern Virginia asked me to volunteer 

2 to testify today, and I will please include my 

3 statement in both your written records and oral 

4 testimony. I could accept use of written records 

5 or comments, and I have a last-minute addition 

6 about Organizing for Action which I'd like to 

7 explain a little later. I'm also a member of 

8 their group, and they're for climate change. 

9 MR. RUPP: Okay. 

10 MR. SLOVINEC: I have a chance -- there 

11 were originally three documents that I support, 

12 and I would want to ask your permission to add a 

13 fourth one. 

14 MR. RUPP: Please. 

15 MR. SLOVINEC: I support the -- that's 

16 okay? 

17 MR. RUPP: Yes. 

18 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay to add a fourth one? 

19 Okay. Fourth one is okay. All right. Good. 

20 Fourth is okay. 

21 Excuse me. I support the Clean Power 

22 Plan in the first document, U.S. Environmental 
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1 Protection Agency Clean Power Plan. It was 

2 issued on August 3rd, 2015, with these goals: 

3 air pollution reduction, reducing CO2 emissions, 

4 or carbon pollution from power plants, and it 

5 says: Our most vulnerable citizens, including 

6 children, older adults, people with heart or lung 

7 disease, and people living in poverty may be most 

8 at the risk for climate change. 

9 In the second document I include a 

10 newsletter of the Illinois Clean Coal Institute, 

11 a partner of the Environmental Protection Agency 

12 of the U.S. with work on removal of carbon 

13 emissions. I hope you can understand me okay. 

14 And it has an ideological perspective 

15 that could seek compromise with Senator 

16 McConnell's website that indicated his no vote on 

17 the Clean Power Plan was mainly to protect 

18 Kentucky coal industries. 

19 The third document is Henry Henderson's 

20 blog for the Natural Resources Defense Council, 

21 Fighting for Carbon Cuts in Court: Illinois and 

22 Chicago step up to defend Clean Power Plan. And 
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1 he said, Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan 

2 announced her office was joining with 17 other 

3 states to defend the Clean Power Plan against a 

4 series of wrong-headed legal challenges intent on 

5 preventing the historic effort to cut dangerous 

6 carbon pollution. 

7 I included an Earth Justice statement on 

8 Facebook, and I also read Chris Mooney's 

9 Washington Post editorial of November 17th, 2015, 

10 entitled, Amid record global temperatures, the 

11 Senate votes to block Obama's Clean Power Plan. 

12 Illinois has needed compromise to both produce 

13 coal and avoid bad air pollution in Chicago. 

14 Since you gave me permission to add 

15 Item D -- the earlier ones are A, B, and C -- 

16 this is from Organizing for Action. You can, you 

17 know, tell me whether or not you've heard of it. 

18 It's a 501(c)3 group that's designed to promote 

19 President Obama's goals; and climate change is a 

20 major goal of the group. So I want to give, you 

21 know, encouragement to their involvement, but I 

22 want -- I have a handwritten note saying, please 
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1 add organization name, items in parentheses. I'm 

2 quoting Sara El-Amine, my e-mail friend, who -- 

3 Executive Director of Organizing for Action, who 

4 wrote, quote: Religious leaders like Pope 

5 Francis are insisting that there is a moral 

6 obligation to address climate change. 

7 In just two weeks more than 160 nations, 

8 representing more than 90 percent of the world's 

9 carbon pollution are joining together for an 

10 international conference to tackle climate change 

11 -- that's unquote. 

12 There are some obsolete references to the 

13 Senate debate, and I'm not sure that you want to 

14 include the Senators' names, so I thought it 

15 would be easier for the Environmental Protection 

16 Agency's Hatch Act or, you know, non-partisan 

17 status to only include the items in parentheses. 

18 I remind everyone I also went on Facebook 

19 to support a compromise that President has 

20 proposed of Trans-Pacific Trade PAC where we 

21 expect support from Senator McConnell and the new 

22 Speaker Paul Ryan who deserves our 
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1 congratulations. 

2 I reminded them -- I attended members of 

3 -- with meetings of the Calumet Community 

4 Religious Conference in 1985 where my Riverdale 

5 home was near President Obama's work on 

6 developing a Communities Project and the -- and 

7 his friendships with local activists like Hazel 

8 Johnson who opposed toxic wastes. I hope for a 

9 smooth transition after the resignation of 

10 Speaker Boehner, who did a fine job on sponsoring 

11 the September '15 visit of Pope Francis who spoke 

12 well and moderately on climate change. Laudato 

13 Si as his program to reduce carbon emissions to 

14 Congress. I have that in another written text, 

15 but my handwriting isn't super neat, so I don't 

16 want to add on too much. 

17 Maura Cowley of the Sierra Club persuaded 

18 me to send messages to support goals of Pope 

19 Francis before the Paris U.N. Conference. I pray 

20 for its success, yet high security is needed. I 

21 briefly recognize the visit November 2nd, 2015 of 

22 Oscar Cardinal Rodriguez of Honduras to speak 
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1 about Laudato Si and his leadership for climate 

2 change to John Carr's group, The Initiative for 

3 Catholic Social Thought and Public Life, yet I 

4 will contact them soon to say that they should 

5 work on their own publicity to the EPA. Thank 

6 you. 

7 They're a Georgetown organization. I did 

8 want to have a briefly amended written text to 

9 include a few other issues I believe that I had 

10 put some items in about the Congresswoman Tammy 

11 Duckworth supporting the plan and somebody else 

12 from the Laudato Si, the Pope's encyclical where 

13 he supports more public transportation, you know, 

14 urban planning goals. And he wanted more success 

15 after the Rio Conference. 

16 So -- but I do want to maybe have a brief 

17 written amendment to an e-mail cite -- 

18 MR. RUPP: Sir -- 

19 MR. SLOVINEC: -- and that will be about 

20 it. It looks like you're about -- 

21 MR. RUPP: We are. We are at time, but 

22 by all means, whatever you would like to submit 
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1 in writing, you can do so at the registration 

2 desk. 

3 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. Now, do you want a 

4 copy of the written statement? Should I hand it 

5 to you or give it to the registration desk? 

6 MR. RUPP: You can leave that at the 

7 registration desk. And we also -- you're able to 

8 submit your comments online as well -- 

9 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. 

10 MR. RUPP: -- and all of that -- how to 

11 do that is out on the registration desk. 

12 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. Now, I'd like to 

13 have your names if I could. Chris S-H-E-R-R-H-Y, 

14 Mark Rupp, okay. Brian Fisher, okay. 

15 MR. FISHER: Yes. 

16 MR. SLOVINEC: That was a relaxed group. 

17 Okay. Do you have any questions for me? 

18 MR. RUPP: No questions. 

19 MR. SLOVINEC: Have any of you ever heard 

20 Organizing for Action before? 

21 MR. RUPP: I have. 

22 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. 
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1 MR. RUPP: Thank you for being here. 

2 MR. SLOVINEC: Well, no, that's fine. It 

3 was my pleasure, and it's very gracious of you. 

4 I was surprised I could talk to you. Do you -- 

5 do each of you work for the Environmental 

6 Protection Agency? 

7 l MR. RUPP: We do. 

8 MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. Mark Rupp, and 

9 Brian -- Brian Fisher. Okay. Great. And you 

10 tell me to see the registration desk for both 

11 handing these in and getting instructions online. 

12 Okay. 

13 I went to Columbia University around the 

14 same time as President Obama, 1981, '82, with a 

15 Master's Degree in International Affairs. I 

16 think that that's about, you know, everything 

17 that I wanted to say. 

18 MR. RUPP: Great. 

19 MR. SLOVINEC: Also, thank you. 

20 MR. RUPP: And the docket closes January 

21 21st, so you have a little time. 

22 MR. SLOVINEC: Oh, okay. Oh, that -- oh, 
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1 that's great. Okay. Then let me ask my friends, 

2 you know, if they want me to maybe add some 

3 clarifications. 

4 Okay. Good. Thank you, Mark. 

5 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

6 MR. SLOVINEC: Thank you. Good luck to 

7 everybody. Thank you. 

8 MR. RUPP: Thank you. I would like to 

9 call up together Michele Roberts and Gary Rossi. 

10 MS. ROBERTS: Hi. 

11 MR. RUPP: Hi, Michele. 

12 MR. RUPP: Hi. Gary Rossi? 

13 MR. ROSSI: Yes, I am. 

14 MR. RUPP: Terrific. Welcome. 

15 MR. ROSSI: Thank you very much. 

16 MR. RUPP: Michele, we'll start with you. 

17 I'll remind the two of you that Chris is keeping 

18 time here for the five minutes. When the light 

19 turns yellow, that means four minutes have gone 

20 by and you've got one more. The red light 

21 indicates that the five minutes is up. 

22 And, Michele, we'll start with you when 
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1 you're ready. If you could say your name, and 

2 spell your name for the record, please. 

3 MS. ROBERTS: Hi, good afternoon. My 

4 name is Michele, M-I-C-H-E-L-E; Roberts, 

5 R-O-B-E-R-T-S. 

6 Hey, Chris. 

7 MR. SHERRHY: How you doing? 

8 MS. ROBERTS: I'm sorry. I just had a 

9 moment. Oh, my God, this is great. How are you? 

10 Anyway, thank you. Wow. 

11 Greetings. Thank you for the opportunity 

12 to provide public testimony today to the CPP. My 

13 name is Michele L. Roberts, National Co14 Coordinator for the Environmental Justice Health 

15 Alliance otherwise known as EJHA. 

16 The EJHA is a national collective of over 

17 30 fence line community grassroots groups and 

18 some advocates located in approximately 13 

19 states. Many, if not all, of the communities 

20 experience egregious health disparities found to 

21 be associated with the billions of pounds of 

22 toxic chemicals spewing in their communities. 
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1 In addition, many are the communities 

2 vulnerable to the comprehensive catastrophic 

3 effects of climate change. While we understand 

4 and respect the Agency's intent to reduce carbon 

5 pollution, address asthma and other respiratory 

6 illnesses as well as heart diseases, and that the 

7 CPP may serve as a foothold to get us in the door 

8 of justice and protection, frankly, it is not 

9 enough. 

10 We recommend the following components be 

11 included in the CPP in order to make it more 

12 effective to meet the full human right to a 

13 healthy and sustainable community for 

14 environmental justice and vulnerable communities, 

15 and effectively address the climate crisis. 

16 Number one, the CPP lacks the requirement 

17 for states to have a state environmental justice 

18 analysis. We need this requirement. 

19 Number two, we need and recommend 

20 assessments that include projections on how state 

21 implementation plans will affect the CO2 emissions 

22 and other co-pollutants of EGUs, otherwise known 
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1 as power plants that are in EJ communities. 

2 Number three, we need and recommend a 

3 requirement for states to develop its State 

4 Implementation Plan in a manner that results in 

5 reduced emissions and co-pollutants in EJ 

6 communities so that these communities will, in 

7 effect, experience a reduction in environmental 

8 harm. 

9 Number four, we need and recommend 

10 effective environmental justice community 

11 engagement that includes access to technical 

12 resources and trainings as per identified by 

13 communities. Instead of cap and trade, we 

14 request EPA develop a plan that identifies plants 

15 with the most EJ impact and regulate those 

16 directly. In addition, we suggest these plants 

17 should not be part of a carbon trading program. 

18 And last, the CPP needs to provide a 

19 capacity building process for environmental 

20 justice communities to fundamentally be at the 

21 table. We request this process. 

22 And with that, thank you very much for 
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1 being able to participate in this particular 

2 hearing. 

3 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

4 MS. ROBERTS: We will leave our comments 

5 with whomever. 

6 MR. RUPP: Great. At the registration 

7 desk. 

8 MS. ROBERTS: Thank you so very much. 

9 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

10 MS. ROBERTS: Chris, it was a pleasure, 

11 and you look great, brother. You look great. 

12 MR. SHERRHY: Thanks. 

13 MS. ROBERTS: God is good. Have a 

14 wonderful day. 

15 MR. SHERRHY: You, too. Thank you. 

16 MR. RUPP: Mr. Rossi. 

17 MR. ROSSI: Hi. Yes. My name is Gary, 

18 G-A-R-Y; Rossi, R-O-S-S-I. And I'm a member of 

19 several environmental protection groups, but I'm 

20 basically here as a private citizen. 

21 Good afternoon. I am originally from 

22 Rochester, New York, and moved to Washington, 
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1 D.C., in November 1983. I currently reside at 

2 1706 New Jersey Avenue, N.W., here in Washington. 

3 And I thank you for this opportunity to submit my 

4 comments. 

5 I am here to speak in support of the 

6 EPA's Clean Power Plan and comment on the 

7 Proposed Federal Implementation Plan. 

8 Rochester, New York, is located on the 

9 southern shore of Lake Ontario. I vividly 

10 remember the huge snow banks that would line the 

11 streets in the winter when I was growing up. 

12 They were like mountain ranges with peaks that 

13 were taller even than my dad. Thanksgivings were 

14 often, but not always, white; and the ground was 

15 always covered in snow at least through March and 

16 often into April. 

17 When I left Rochester in 1983, the snows 

18 were coming a little later, but Christmases were 

19 still white, and the ground stayed covered 

20 through the winter; but things aren't like that 

21 up there anymore. 

22 For about the past decade or so I've gone 
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1 back home for the holidays to find the ground 

2 mostly bare. My friends and relatives tell me it 

3 still snows sometimes and there are still storms, 

4 but the winter-long deep snow cover is gone. 

5 Something is broken. 

6 My hometown is not the only place where 

7 weather patterns are changing. Unprecedented 

8 droughts, floods, and storms of historic 

9 proportions are occurring all over the world. It 

10 is my opinion that anyone who isn't frightened or 

11 at least deeply concerned is in need of 

12 awakening. 

13 We know that these changes are the direct 

14 result of the vast amounts of carbon -- of 

15 greenhouse gases human beings have been pumping 

16 into the atmosphere for generations now. But 

17 with our entire civilization built on the use of 

18 fossil fuels as our primary energy source, we 

19 cannot stop this process overnight. We need 

20 power every day, all the time, and it is the 

21 fossil fuel fired power plants that are the 

22 largest source of greenhouse gases. 
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1 The EPA's clean power plan and the 

2 proposed Federal Implementation Plan are a big 

3 step forward in tackling this problem. The Clean 

4 Power Plan will get the U.S. on track to cut 

5 carbon pollution by 30 percent below 2005 levels 

6 and in a little less than 15 years. 

7 The plan also gives states the 

8 flexibility they need to decide on and implement 

9 the emission reduction measures that will work 

10 most effectively for them. 

11 At the same time, under this plan, the 

12 EPA will be able to issue a Federal 

13 Implementation Plan for any state that is 

14 unwilling or unable to take action on its own. 

15 This will ensure a nationwide reduction in 

16 greenhouse gas emissions. 

17 Taking the necessary steps to achieve the 

18 goals stipulated in the Clean Power Plan will 

19 also provide opportunities to invest in clean 

20 energy. These investments will result in 

21 significant job creation and a welcome boost to 

22 state and local economies. Modernizing existing 
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1 power plants and building clean energy systems 

2 going forward will improve the quality of the air 

3 we all breathe by greatly reducing ozone 

4 emissions and particle pollution in the form of 

5 soot and smog. 

6 It is predicted that this will prevent up 

7 to 150,000 asthma attacks and 6,600 premature 

8 deaths by 2030. This is especially important for 

9 families living in close proximity to the power 

10 plants we currently depend on. 

11 I would like to point out that any costs 

12 incurred in making these changes are actually an 

13 investment in our future and are trivial compared 

14 to the future costs of rising seas, catastrophic 

15 weather events, unavoidable crop failures, and 

16 poor air quality. 

17 And I am concerned about what pollution 

18 and a changing climate will mean for Rochester 

19 and the myriad farms and orchards in the 

20 surrounding countryside. Just to the south of 

21 the city in the Finger Lakes region there are 

22 many vineyards and excellent wineries that could 
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1 well be wiped out by unpredictable and extreme 

2 weather. As it is now, the crisp, white, bright 

3 winters that I remember so fondly are probably 

4 gone forever. 

5 The Clean Power Plan will not solve these 

6 problems or prevent the coming changes all by 

7 itself, but it's a very good start, and its 

8 benefits will be fairly immediate. We need to 

9 take these steps now. We cannot wait any longer. 

10 The future of our world and all our homes is at 

11 stake. 

12 And thank you for this opportunity again 

13 to comment. I appreciate it. 

14 MR. RUPP: Thanks. Shannon Heyck15 Williams. Welcome, Shannon. 

16 Chris is maintaining our five-minute 

17 clock here. 

18 MS. HEYCK-WILLIAMS: Okay. Should I 

19 start with my name and -- my name is Shannon 

20 Heyck-Williams. The last name is spelled 

21 H-E-Y-C-K, hyphen, Williams, W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S. 

22 And I am the Senior Manager for Climate and 
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1 Energy Policy at the National Wildlife 

2 Federation. 

3 Thank you for the opportunity to present 

4 comment today in support of a strong Federal Plan 

5 from EPA to implement the Clean Power Plan. The 

6 National Wildlife Federation is a voice for 

7 wildlife dedicated to protecting wildlife and 

8 habitat, and inspiring the future generation of 

9 conservationists. 

10 To this end we believe our nation's 

11 wildlife, fish, healthy waters, clean air, and 

12 public lands are a birthright of all Americans. 

13 And government has a duty to conserve and steward 

14 these public resources for all, including future 

15 generations using the best available science and 

16 providing robust financial resources. Protection 

17 of our climate is one of these obligations. 

18 Climate change is already having a 

19 negative impact on wildlife in their habitat. 

20 Drought and wildfires are increasingly crippling 

21 waterways in the western U.S. Warming rivers and 

22 streams are becoming inhospitable for freshwater 
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1 fish like trout in Appalachia and the southeast. 

2 Moose in the northeast are plagued by a rise of 

3 tick infestations. And sea level rise and 

4 increasing ocean acidity are jeopardizing ocean 

5 fisheries and coastal habitats. 

6 Each of these changes not only impacts 

7 wildlife but also our ability to sustain an 

8 outdoor American heritage and preserve local 

9 economies dependent on recreation, hunting, and 

10 fishing. 

11 As a collective of organizations 

12 representing sportsmen and women, outdoor 

13 enthusiasts, and conservationists across the 

14 nation, the National Wildlife Federation and its 

15 members are deeply concerned about climate change 

16 and support EPA's landmark Clean Power Plan to 

17 curb carbon pollution by 32 percent by 2030 from 

18 power plants. 

19 By transitioning from dirty energy 

20 sources to cleaner sources of energy, the Clean 

21 Power Plan will lessen climate stressors and will 

22 also benefit wildlife by dramatically reducing 
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1 other pollutants like acid rain, ground level 

2 ozone and smog, toxic wastewater discharges, and 

3 mercury pollution that has rendered many fish too 

4 toxic to eat. 

5 In order to achieve the maximum benefits 

6 for wildlife, EPA must provide states a strong 

7 Federal Plan that encourages wildlife-friendly 

8 renewable energy, energy conservation, and 

9 interstate cooperation. The proposed Federal 

10 Implementation Plan is based on sound science and 

11 promises to be an effective model for states 

12 devising their own plans. The Federal Plan 

13 should be finalized in a timely manner so that 

14 states have time to use it and to guide the 

15 formulation of their own plans. 

16 Importantly, the Federal Plan also serves 

17 as a backstop for states that choose not to 

18 devise their own plans. Under the Clean Power 

19 Plan states have maximum flexibility to design a 

20 cost effective way to reduce carbon pollution, 

21 modernize their energy system, and create jobs in 

22 the clean energy sector while protecting wildlife 
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1 in the way that makes the most sense for them. 

2 The National Wildlife Federation urges 

3 each state to take this opportunity to craft its 

4 own path to meeting pollution targets, one that 

5 acknowledges that state's unique energy 

6 investments, transmission capability, and local 

7 environmental and health conditions. However, we 

8 recognize that not all states will choose to do 

9 so and stress the importance of a strong Federal 

10 Plan. 

11 The National Wildlife Federation thanks 

12 you for your leadership and commends you for the 

13 significant steps you have taken to protect 

14 climate and wildlife and urges the Agency to move 

15 swiftly to finalize a strong Federal 

16 Implementation Plan for the Clean Power Plan. 

17 Thank you. 

18 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

19 If I could have the next two folks come 

20 up together, Jessica Papalia and Erica Wagner? 

21 MS. PAPALIA: Hello, and thank you for 

22 listening to our concerns. My name is Jessica 
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1 Papalia, spelled J-E-S-S-I-C-A, P-A-P-A-L-I-A. 

2 I live in Washington, D.C. I'm a third 

3 grade teacher at a public charter school here in 

4 the city. Most of my students come from low 

5 income families who live here in our city. 

6 Research shows that higher levels of air 

7 pollution results in higher rates of asthma, a 

8 fact that has a disproportionate impact on 

9 families in low income communities where a higher 

10 number of power plants are located. 

11 This fact may seem rather abstract when 

12 looking at it on paper. I'm here to tell you 

13 what this impact looks like on the ground. It 

14 looks like an 8-year old crying to you because 

15 they cannot go outside to play for days on end 

16 when it is too hot, or too cold, or there's too 

17 much pollen, or there is an air quality report 

18 for the D.C. Metro area that affects them because 

19 of their asthma. 

20 It looks like daily coughing attacks in 

21 the classroom that has a 7-year-old rushing to 

22 the nurse to receive medication. It looks like a 
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1 9-year old that consistently misses school every 

2 single year of their academic career because of 

3 severe asthma attacks that they need to recover 

4 from, resulting in low academic achievement in 

5 all areas. 

6 Let me tell you about one student who's 

7 in my class this year. She's 8-years old. She 

8 has severe asthma. Her asthma is so severe that 

9 she frequently misses school because of asthma 

10 attacks. However, until a few weeks ago, due to 

11 her family's economic situation her family's 

12 health insurance coverage did not allow her to 

13 access the medication required to treat her 

14 asthma. She, therefore, cannot live the life of 

15 an 8-year-old. 

16 The school nurse had to send her to the 

17 emergency room due to her severe symptoms of 

18 poorly controlled asthma. She is consistently 

19 tardy because she walks a long distance to the 

20 public bus stop that takes her to our school. 

21 Her brothers are afraid to make her walk quickly 

22 because of her asthma attacks. She has to take 
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1 frequent stops just to walk distance to the bus 

2 stop every day. 

3 She sees the nurse multiple times a day 

4 to receive medication, and she frequently is not 

5 allowed to go outside for recess or go to gym 

6 class. She as frequent coughing fits in the 

7 classroom and has to see the nurse right away to 

8 receive medication. 

9 The combination of all this missed class 

10 time over the years of her schooling has resulted 

11 in the student performing below grade level in 

12 all academic areas. 

13 Let me tell you about another student who 

14 was in my class last year. He's now 9 years old. 

15 He has severe asthma. In fact, his asthma is so 

16 severe that he has a machine in his room to 

17 assist him with breathing at night. 

18 He is an extremely active, athletic kid, 

19 but he needs to stop playing sports or leave gym 

20 class frequently to get medication from the nurse 

21 for his asthma. When he has a severe asthma 

22 attack, which is every few weeks, he misses a day 
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1 or two of school until he is fully recovered. 

2 He also goes on an additional daily 

3 asthma medication for at least a week after each 

4 attack. With side effects of increased body 

5 movement and jitters, making it difficult for him 

6 to focus on academics. He is constantly thirsty 

7 when on this medication and frequently feels 

8 uncomfortable or sick. 

9 After years of missed class time and 

10 difficulty focusing on academics when on his 

11 asthma medication, the student is below grade 

12 level in all academic areas. 

13 The Clean Power Plan will cut carbon 

14 pollution from the power sector by 30 percent by 

15 2030 which will result in lower rates of asthma 

16 in the low income communities living near power 

17 plants. This reduced exposure to particle 

18 pollution will help us avoid a projected 140,000 

19 to 150,000 asthma attacks in children and avoid 

20 470 to 490,000 missed school and work days. 

21 If we are in a country that believes in 

22 liberty, equality, and justice for all, we cannot 
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1 allow for low income children to continue to bear 

2 the brunt of our inaction on climate change and 

3 air pollution. 

4 Our actions as a nation and how we choose 

5 to implement the Clean Power Plan will directly 

6 impact their health, their education, and their 

7 future. 

8 In order for this to occur, I urge the 

9 EPA to ensure the carbon pollution standards in 

10 the Model Federal Plan achieve the pollution 

11 reductions promised in the Final Clean Power Plan 

12 or even further reductions and ensure that the 

13 Model Federal Plan protects and benefits low 

14 income and indigenous communities that have long 

15 borne the brunt of fossil fuel pollution and may 

16 be most likely to experience the impacts of 

17 climate change. 

18 Thank you for hearing my concerns. 

19 MS. WAGNER: Hello. My name is Erica 

20 Wagner with a C. And yes, that's W-A-G-N-E-R, 

21 Wagner. 

22 Thank you again for hearing our concerns 
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1 and -- really worry about the future of the kids 

2 I work with as well as my own future. There has 

3 been a dramatic increase in the number of severe 

4 storms in recent years, and it's such that the 

5 Pentagon has designated climate change an urgent 

6 and growing threat to our national security. I 

7 expect you've read that report. So I don't need 

8 to cite it all for you. 

9 You've may also be aware of the trends, 

10 but just in case, I find it interesting that my 

11 maternal grandmother was born in India and lived 

12 there until about 1942 when she was 24, but she 

13 never even heard the word tornado in all that 

14 time which seems odd to me if she -- if there had 

15 been tornados at 24, she would have heard of 

16 them, right? 

17 So also rising sea levels, more 

18 hurricanes, more typhoons, more tornados -- all 

19 of these will make many acres either 

20 uninhabitable or prohibitively expensive for most 

21 people. The people who used to live there will 

22 have to find somewhere else to live. 
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1 Moreover, the world's population is 

2 expected to increase significantly in coming 

3 years. If we don't take drastic measures, and 

4 soon, it will be impossible to house and feed 

5 everyone. 

6 Ocean acidification, of course, will 

7 worsen and considering that you have to have many 

8 fish stocks are already in decline or collapsing, 

9 the people who rely on them to eat and to sell 

10 will have to find something else. 

11 Similarly, agriculture will that be 

12 affected? And what are we going to do? I can't 

13 imagine that the climate change deniers will ever 

14 see reason if Bjorn Lomborg -- conversion didn't 

15 convince them. Do you remember Bjorn Lomborg? 

16 He was -- he called himself the skeptical 

17 environmentalist and expressed skepticism of 

18 climate change. I believe he considered himself 

19 a scientist. I don't remember anything about his 

20 qualifications. 

21 In any case (pause) -- well, thank you 

22 for listening to our concerns. I believe we said 
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1 that four times now. 

2 MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. And if 

3 you have written comments, please leave them at 

4 the registration desk. 

5 MS. WAGNER: Thank you. 

6 MR. RUPP: Our next panel will consist of 

7 David O'Leary and Tim Harlan-Marks. 

8 Thanks for being here. Just a reminder 

9 that we're allowing five minutes of public 

10 testimony. And you can keep track over here 

11 where the green light will take you through the 

12 first four minutes. Then the yellow light will 

13 go on, letting you know that you've got one 

14 minute left. 

15 MR. O'LEARY: Good afternoon. My name is 

16 David O'Leary, O apostrophe-L-E-A-R-Y. I live in 

17 Takoma Park, Maryland, and I'm here to speak in 

18 favor of the -- of the proposed rule. I'll keep 

19 it even to under one minute probably. 

20 Basically, this process has been going on 

21 for many years already, as I'm sure you know, in 

22 various forms to regulate global warming 
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1 emissions and -- and pollution. And I look 

2 forward to seeing this finally implemented as -- 

3 as it's been drafted. So I guess that's all I 

4 really have to say. 

5 Just, please proceed -- proceed ahead. 

6 Thanks. 

7 MR. HARLAN-MARKS: Hi there. 

8 MR. RUPP: Hello. 

9 MR. HARLAN-MARKS: Thanks for hearing my 

10 testimony. My name is Tim Harlan-Marks. I'm 

11 from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Do you want me to 

12 spell my name? 

13 MR. RUPP: Please. 

14 MR. HARLAN-MARKS: So the first name is 

15 Tim, T-I-M; last name Harlan, H-A-R-L-A-N, 

16 hyphen-M-A-R-K-S. And again, I'm from 

17 Minneapolis. 

18 And I remember in the -- in the early 

19 nineties when I was in elementary school first 

20 hearing about climate change or, as we called it, 

21 global warming back then, from a science teacher, 

22 actually. And it was pretty bold of him to share 
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1 this with a group of 8 or 9-year-olds, but I 

2 appreciate his willingness to be frank with us. 

3 I remember him describing a future world 

4 that was really scary to me as a child, one in 

5 which animals that I really loved might go 

6 extinct and one in which extreme weather would 

7 put my family and other families at risk, maybe 

8 creating a planet that -- that none of us could 

9 even survive in, let alone thrive. 

10 And I remember being really afraid. You 

11 know, I'm from Minnesota. We were no strangers 

12 to tornados. I could imagine a gigantic tornado 

13 ripping through my neighborhood and taking away 

14 everything that -- that I had grown up knowing 

15 and relying on for support and security. 

16 But I remember I talked to my teacher. I 

17 talked to my parents and they said, you know, 

18 it's normal to be afraid. This is something to 

19 be afraid of, but there's time. And there are 

20 other people paying attention. There are steps 

21 we can take and -- and if you're hearing this, 

22 the leaders of our country are hearing this, too; 
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1 and there's actions that they can take. And so, 

2 that is the moment when I started paying 

3 attention, and I started looking for signs that 

4 the leaders of my country were paying attention 

5 and were taking action. And I kept watching us 

6 kick the can down the road, and down the road, 

7 and down the road, and suddenly it's the very 

8 frightening future scenario that was presented to 

9 me is a very striking current reality. 

10 In 2011 a gigantic super tornado did rip 

11 through my neighborhood in North Minneapolis, 

12 just narrowing missing the home that I grew up 

13 in. The past two winters we've had polar 

14 vortexes that have literally caused people to die 

15 in the streets of our very cold town. 

16 And it's not just my community or my 

17 family. One of my best friends is from Ethiopia. 

18 He tells me about how his family has farmed the 

19 same land for generations and is now being forced 

20 to migrate to the city because that land is no 

21 longer farmable. 

22 So, this -- this administration has done 
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1 more than any other. I want to -- I want to 

2 thank the EPA for your -- for its role in that 

3 and I want to speak strongly in support of the 

4 Clean Power Plan and also comment on the proposed 

5 Federal Implementation Plan. 

6 So this -- we have an opportunity to do 

7 something really big, but to do it big, we need 

8 to get it right. And part of the key to that is 

9 getting the Federal Implementation Plan to be as 

10 strong and just as possible to make sure that the 

11 Federal Implementation Plan that's adopted 

12 ensures the carbon pollution standards -- I'm 

13 sorry. It's important that in the model that the 

14 carbon pollution standards achieve the pollution 

15 reductions promised in the Final Clean Power 

16 Plan, of for that matter even further reductions. 

17 It's important that -- ensure states 

18 address potential carbon pollution from new power 

19 plants to achieve overall electric sector 

20 reductions in carbon pollution, protect low 

21 income consumers by maximizing utilities' 

22 incentives to invest in energy efficiency, ensure 
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1 that the Model Federal Plan protects and benefits 

2 minority, low income, and indigenous communities 

3 which we know have long borne the brunt of fossil 

4 fuel pollution as well as the -- not only the 

5 carbon pollution but also the -- the dirty air 

6 and then the impacts on public health from that. 

7 And also, we need to resist give-aways of 

8 allowances to the most polluting sources. 

9 So, I appreciate the time to testify. 

10 This is an issue that literally keeps me up at 

11 night. I'm grateful that there is something 

12 being done in this moment that can chip away at 

13 this very big, very real problem. And again, 

14 thank you for your time. 

15 MR. RUPP: Thank you. 

16 We are at the end of this particular 

17 session. I think that there is going to be a 

18 6:00 o'clock to -- no, this is it. This wraps 

19 the hearing here in Washington, D.C. 

20 For folks who have more that they want to 

21 say, the docket is open through January 21st of 

22 2016. So please feel free to find information at 
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1 the registration desk for how you can submit 

2 additional comments or comments not yet made. 

3 I really want to thank the court reporter 

4 for his time today and my colleagues Chris and 

5 Brian as well as Allen and all the folks helping 

6 out at the registration desk. 

7 And that concludes this evening's 

8 hearing. Thank you. 

9 (The hearing was adjourned at 5:02 

10 o'clock p.m.) 

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