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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

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### Clean Power Plan 5 

### Proposed Federal Plan and Model Rules 6

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### 9:15 a.m. to 5:02 p.m. 10 

### Thursday, November 19, 2015 11

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### William Jefferson Clinton East Building 17 

### 1201 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 18 

### Washington, DC 20004 19

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### EPA PANEL: 1


### MORNING SESSION: 2 

### PAUL GUNNING, Panel Chair 3


### LORA STRINE 4


### TONI JONES 5

6


### AFTERNOON SESSION: 7 

### MARK RUPP, Panel Chair, Deputy Associate 8 

### Administrator, EPA Office of Intergovernmental 9 

### Relations 10 

### BRIAN FISHER, EPA Office of Air and Radiation 11 

### CHRIS SHERRHY, EPA Office of Air and Radiation 12

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### M O R N I N G S E S S I O N 1


### C O N T E N T S 2


### PAGE 3


### INTRODUCTION - PAUL GUNNING 9 4

5


### PUBLIC COMMENTS 6 

### ELIZABETH BEARDSLEY, Senior Policy Counsel, 17 7 

### U.S. Green Building Council 8 

### CAROLYN SLAUGHTER, Director of Environmental 23 9 

### Policy, American Public Power Association 10 

### DEBORAH GRAFF, Ohio Valley Environmental 28 11

### Coalition and Keeper of the Mountains 12 

### WENDY JOHNSTON, Ohio Valley Environmental 30 13

### Coalition and Keeper of the Mountains 14 

### QUINN WEBER, Environmental & Health Program 35 15

### Intern, Physicians for Social Responsibility 16 

### LEAH RAMPY, Member, Virginia League of 39 17

### Conservation Voters Action Team and 18

### Unitarian Universalist Church, Arlington, VA 19 

### ELANA ORBUCH, Interfaith Power and Light 43 20 

### CHARLES C. YODER, His own behalf 47 21 

### OLIVIA ALPERSTEIN, Progressive Congress 51 224

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### WILFRED CANDLER, His own behalf 54 3 

### KENNA HAWES, Sierra Club 57 4 

### SARAH BUCCI, Director, Environment Virginia 65 5 

### CHRISTY LEAVITT, Environment Maryland 69 6 

### MARGIE ALT, Director, Environment America 73 7 

### CARRIE ANNAND, Vice-President, External 79 8 

### Affairs, Biomass Power Association, D.C. 9 

### WALTON SHEPHERD, Natural Resources Defense 86 10

### Council 11 

### BARBARA WEINSTEIN, Director, Commission on 89 12

### Social Action of Reformed Judaism and the 13

### Associate Director of the Religious Action 14

### Center of Reformed Judaism 15 

### RUTH ANN NORTON, President and CEO, Green and 94 16

### Healthy Homes Initiative 17 

### JEAN STEWART, Her own behalf 100 18 

### DR. SAMANTHA AHDOOT, Fellow of American 102 19

### Academy of Pediatrics 20 

### STEFAN KOESTER, Alliance for Industrial 107 21

### Efficiency 225

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### SHELLY LEE, Intern, We Act for 113 3 

### Environmental Justice 4 

### Kerene Tayloe, Federal Policy Associate, 118 5 

### We Act for Environmental Justice 6 

### ETHAN HANDELMAN, Vice-President for Policy 122 7 

### Advocacy, National Housing Conference 8 

### FRANK SWIGONSKI, Advanced Energy Economy 129 9

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### A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 1


### C O N T E N T S 2


### PAGE 3


### INTRODUCTION - MARK RUPP 136 4

5


### PUBLIC COMMENTS 6 

### PAUL CIERO, President, Industrial Consumers 144 7 

### of America 8 

### HAO-LI-LOH, Her own behalf 149 9 

### KEARA HOBAN-WEINSTEIN, Her own behalf 154 10 

### ELLEN VAUGHAN, Environmental & Energy Study 157 11

### Institute 12 

### BARBARA GOTTLIEB, Director for Environment 161 13

### and Health, Physicians for Social 14

### Responsibility 15 

### TYSON MILLER, Director of Programs, Dogwood 166 16

### Alliance 17 

### JALONNE WHITE-NEWSOME, Director of Policy, 172 18

### We Act for Environmental Justice 19 

### SETH HEALD, Retired Attorney, Working on 177 20

### Master of Science & Energy Policy 21 

### JULIAN MOCINE-McQUEEN, Green For All 182 227

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### ELIZABETH NORCROSS, Director, Center for 187 3 

### for Spirituality & Nature; Board Chair for 4 

### Regional Interfaith Power and Light 5 

### DAVID KARPAY, On His Own Behalf 192 6 

### JAMES CHEN, On His Own Behalf 198 7 

### MARY MARTIN, U.S. Chamber of Commerce 203 8 

### SUSAN STILLMAN, On Her Own Behalf 210 9 

### KATIE PLOWRIGHT, On Her Own Behalf 215 10 

### SARAH SAYLOR, Earth Justice 218 11 

### JON COOPER, On His Own Behalf 222 12 

### ADAM HASZ, Sustain Us 228 13 

### KIM NOBLE, Director, National Partnerships 232 14


### for Green for All 15 

### MIKE SANDLER, Co-Founder, Center for Climate 234 16

### Protection, CarbonShare.org website 17 

### JAMES (JAY) DUFFY, Associate Attorney, Clean 239 18

### Air Task Force 19 

### DUSTIN WHITE, On His Own Behalf 246 20

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### MALIN MOENCH, Utah Physicians for a Healthy 250 3 

### Environment 4 

### BEN LEVITAN, Environmental Defense Fund 256 5 

### INGRID SCHWINGLER, Policy & Regulatory 261 6 

### Coordinator, Grid Alternatives 7 

### JENNIFER ABEL, On Her Own Behalf 265 8 

### COURTENAY LEWIS, Sierra Club 267 9 

### JOE SLOVINEC, Sierra Club 271 10 

### MICHELE ROBERTS, Co-Coordinator, 281 11

### Environmental Justice Health Alliance 12 

### GARY ROSSI, On His Own Behalf 284 13 

### SHANNON HEYCK-WILLIAMS, Senior Manager, 289 14

### Climate & Energy Policy, National Wildlife 15

### Federation 16 

### JESSICA PAPALIA, On Her Own Behalf 293 17 

### ERICA WAGNER, On Her Own Behalf 298 18 

### DAVID O'LEARY, On His Own Behalf 301 19 

### TIM HARLAN-MARKS, On His Own Behalf 302 20

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1


### M O R N I N G S E S S I O N 2 

### MR. GUNNING: Good morning, everyone. 3 

### Good morning and welcome to the public hearing on 4 

### the Proposed Federal Plan and Model Rule for the 5 

### Clean Power Plan for existing power plants. 6 

### My name is Paul Gunning. I'm the 7 

### Director of the Climate Change Division here at 8 

### EPA in our Office of Air and Radiation. 9 

### I'll be chairing today's public hearing, 10 

### and I really appreciate your attendance today. 11

### Joining me today on the panel -- to my 12 

### left is Toni Jones, and to my right is Laura 13 

### Strine, also from EPA. 14

### I'll start with a few opening remarks, 15 

### and then I'll go through some logistics, and then 16 

### -- and then we'll commence with the hearing. 17

### Fossil fuel fired power plants are the 18 

### largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions 19 

### or carbon pollution accounting for 31 percent of 20 

### U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing 21 

### carbon pollution from power plants is an 2210

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### essential step in lessening the impacts of 1 

### climate change and producing a more certain 2 

### future for our environment, our health, and for 3 

### future generations. 4 

### We are here today to listen to your 5 

### comments on the EPA's proposed Federal Plan and 6 

### Model Rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 7 

### existing power plants. 8 

### On October 23rd, 2015, EPA published in 9 

### the Federal Register its Proposed Federal Plan to 10 

### implement emission guidelines for power plants 11 

### under Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. 12

### EPA's 111(d) rule, known as the Clean 13 

### Power Plan takes effect on December 22nd, 2015, 14 

### and applies to affected power plants that began 15 

### construction on or before January 8th, 2014. 16

### The Federal Plan and Model Trading Rules 17 

### demonstrate a readily available path toward -- 18 

### forward for Clean Power Plan implementation and 19 

### present a flexible, affordable, implementation 20 

### options for states. 21

### The Model Rule provides a cost effective 2211

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### pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 1 

### the EPA and make it -- makes it easy for states 2 

### and power plants to use emissions trading. It 3 

### does the heavy lifting for states who may choose 4 

### to use a model rule as their state plan. The EPA 5 

### would implement the Federal Plan in any state 6 

### that does not submit an approvable plan. 7 

### This proposal includes four discreet 8 

### proposed actions. First, a rate-based federal 9 

### plan for each state with affected EGUs, a mass10 

### based federal plan for each state with affected 11 

### EGUs, a rate-based model trading rule for 12 

### potential use by any state, and finally, a mass13 

### based model trading rule for potential use by any 14


### state. 15

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 16 

### the same levels of emissions performance as 17 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 18 

### Plan. The federal plans will be finalized only 19 

### for those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 20 

### determines have failed to submit an approvable 21 

### 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 2212

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### in the emissions guidelines. 1 

### In those states where a federal plan may 2 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 3 

### the same emission guidelines for affected power 4 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 5 

### would not require additional control requirements 6 

### or impose additional costs. 7 

### Even where a federal plan is put in place 8 

### for a particular state, that state will still be 9 

### able to submit a plan which, if approved, will 10 

### allow the state and its sources to exit the 11 

### federal plan. States may take delegation of 12 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 13 

### order to become the primary implementers or 14 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 15 

### the implementation of a portion of the federal 16 

### plan. 17

### States operating under a federal plan may 18 

### adopt complimentary measures outside of that plan 19 

### to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 20 

### benefit of power generators and to consumers. 21

### The proposal also includes, as a Model 2213

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### Rule for those states that are developing their 1 

### own state plans. The EPA intends to finalize 2 

### both the rate-based and mass-based model trading 3 

### rules in the summer of 2016. 4 

### A state program that adheres to the model 5 

### trading rule provisions specified in this 6 

### rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 7 

### approvable. There are stand-alone portions of 8 

### the model trading rule such as the evaluation, 9 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 10 

### emission rate credits that would be approvable 11 

### even if the state adopt an approach that differs 12 

### in other respects from the model rule. 13

### In addition, the proposal contains a 14 

### finding that if it is necessary or appropriate to 15 

### implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 16 

### affected EGUs located in Indian Country. CO2 17 

### emissions performance rates for these facilities 18 

### were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 19

### Information on how the EPA will reach out 20 

### to communities throughout the comment period and 21 

### an overview of the actions that the EPA is taking 2214

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### to ensure that vulnerable communities are not 1 

### being disproportionately impacted by this 2 

### rulemaking. 3 

### If you would like more details on the 4 

### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 5 

### the registration desk outside. 6 

### But before we get started today, I would 7 

### like to go through a few housekeeping items and 8 

### ground rules that will help make today's hearing 9 

### run more smoothly. 10

### First, please be sure you have checked in 11 

### at the registration desk even if you are not 12 

### planning to speak today. And if you are signed 13 

### up to speak online or by phone but haven't told 14 

### us that you are here, please step out to the 15 

### registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 16 

### you have arrived. 17

### I will call speakers up in pairs. When 18 

### your name is called, please come to the speaker's 19 

### table right here in the front. When I call you 20 

### to speak, please state your name clearly, spell 21 

### it for the court reporter. Your comments will be 2215

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### transcribed and included in the record of 1 

### comments on the proposed rule. And also, please 2 

### speak directly into the mike as closely as 3 

### possible so that all can hear. 4 

### You will have five minutes to give your 5 

### comments. We will have a timer here. We have a 6 

### timer here at the front desk, and there's a light 7 

### to help you know how much time you have to speak. 8 

### When the light turns from green to yellow, that 9 

### means you have one minute remaining. When it 10 

### turns red, that's a signal that you are at five 11 

### minutes and it is time to stop. 12

### When you are finished speaking, please 13 

### remain at the table until the person next to you 14 

### has completed his or her testimony. The folks 15 

### here, myself included and the folks from EPA, are 16 

### here to listen to you today; however, a panel 17 

### member may ask questions to clarify. I will then 18 

### call up the next pair of speakers and we will 19


### move forward. 20

### If you've brought a written copy of your 21 

### testimony, please give that to the staff at the 2216

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### registration table outside before you leave 1 

### today. We'll put any written comments submitted 2 

### today in the official docket for the proposed 3


### rule. 4 

### We also have comment cards available at 5 

### the registration desk outside. If you would like 6 

### to submit additional written comments, you can do 7 

### so today. If you want to comment in writing at a 8 

### later time, stop by the materials table near the 9 

### registration desk and pick up a copy of 10 

### instructions for submitting those written 11 

### comments. Those comments must be received by the 12 

### agency by January 21st, 2016. 13

### Let me assure you that the EPA gives just 14 

### as much consideration to comments that we receive 15 

### in writing as we do comments that we receive at 16 

### public hearings like the one this morning. So if 17 

### you have more comments that you would like to 18 

### provide EPA, please submit them by the comment 19 

### deadline I noted above. Your comments will be 20 

### reviewed. 21

### If you have any questions during the day 2217

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### through the hearing, please see the staff at the 1 

### registration desk, and someone will assist you. 2 

### They can provide information about logistics, 3 

### restrooms, and things of that nature. 4 

### Again, on behalf of EPA, thank you again 5 

### for coming today to share your comments with us 6 

### on the proposal. We look forward to hearing 7 

### more. And let's begin. 8 

### So, as I stated, let's call the first two 9 

### speakers that we have registered for today. The 10 

### first, Elizabeth Beardsley, please approach the 11 

### table, and Carolyn Slaughter. 12

### Good morning. 13

### MR. GUNNING: Elizabeth Beardsley, please 14 

### begin. The floor is yours. 15

### MS. BEARDSLEY: Thank you. My name is 16 

### Elizabeth Beardsley, B-E-A-R-D-S-L-E-Y. I am the 17 

### Senior Policy Counsel at the U.S. Green Building 18 

### Council. Thank you for the opportunity to speak 19 

### this morning. 20

### USGBC is an NGO with the mission of 21 

### transforming our built environment to one that is 2218

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### sustainable and supportive of human health. We 1 

### have more than 12,000 member organizations, and 2 

### there are more than 200,000 lead professionals 3 

### around the globe. 4 

### Our flagship green building 5 

### certification, LEED, helps drive energy efficient 6 

### in resource conserving buildings such as this one 7 

### I'm in -- and provides assurance from third-party 8 

### certification. 9 

### We are a member of several coalitions 10 

### engaging on the Clean Power Plan, including the 11 

### Third-Party Delivered Energy Efficiency Coalition 12 

### as well as an ad hoc Green Affordable Housing 13 

### Group. 14

### USGBC has supported the Clean Power Plan 15 

### since its proposal, and we thank EPA for its 16 

### leadership and your hard work and dedication. 17

### Our members and the Green Building 18 

### community knows that the transformation to a 19 

### clean power economy is not just possible, but 20 

### it's an imperative to secure our future. 21

### We offer several comments today and will 2219

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### also submit comments in the docket. 1 

### Regarding energy efficiency, study after 2 

### study documents that energy efficiency provides 3 

### the least cost path to compliance and is the 4 

### lowest cost resource available to states. 5 

### Buildings represent 70 percent of retail 6 

### electricity use in the U.S., and they must be 7 

### part of the solution. 8 

### Fortunately, whole building efficiency is 9 

### a proven method and has well -- well established 10 

### M and V available to it as well. 11

### Energy efficiency can be delivered via 12 

### utility programs, trading schemes, state 13 

### policies, and private entities. And third party 14 

### energy efficiency such as through energy 15 

### performance contracts and above-code 16 

### certification can deliver effective, verified 17 

### efficiency without tying up public funds. 18

### We urge EPA to take all steps available 19 

### to ensure that any states under a Federal Plan or 20 

### adopting the Federal Plan as a model are 21 

### maximally using energy efficiency in their 2220

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### approaches. 1 

### Our understanding is that the Federal 2 

### Plan for mass-based states would not necessarily 3 

### advocate -- allocate allowances to efficiency. 4 

### So we recommend EPA fully develop the Federal 5 

### Plan and trading rule to incorporate registries. 6 

### Regarding the clean energy -- the Clean 7 

### Energy Incentive Program, we support the goal of 8 

### benefitting low income communities, particularly 9 

### affordable and low income housing. 10

### And with that I will conclude and we'll 11 

### submit our question -- our further comments in 12


### the record. 13

### That seemed really fast, but -- 14

### MR. GUNNING: You actually have two 15 

### additional minutes. Go ahead. 16

### MS. BEARDSLEY: Okay. I was wondering. 17

### MR. GUNNING: For some reason it's set 18


### for three. Go ahead. 19

### MS. BEARDSLEY: I didn't think I was that 20 

### far off. Thank you. 21

### MR. GUNNING: Apologies for that. 2221

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### MS. BEARDSLEY: That's all right. 1


### We're concerned that the federal -- the 2 

### Proposed Federal Plan's lack of allocations to 3 

### energy efficiency beyond the CEIP period could 4 

### actually disincentivize use of the CEIP for 5 

### energy efficiency in low income communities. The 6 

### reason is that some of the most significant 7 

### investments needed, the whole building or deeper 8 

### retrofit approaches, they'll need assurance that 9 

### beyond Years 1 and 2 of their payback period that 10 

### they'll be able to get credits and value back. 11

### So, without the assurance and tying the 12 

### Clean Energy Incentive Program to the future 13 

### years' energy efficiency, there could be a gap 14 

### there that will not help realize a potential of 15 

### the CEIP as intended. 16

### Therefore, we urge EPA to provide for a 17 

### registry and allow energy efficiency to compete 18 

### for allowances in the full compliance period on a 19 

### level playing field. And to the extent that 20 

### remaining allowances are auctioned under a 21 

### federal plan, that revenue generated should be 2222

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### prioritized for low income residents and 1 

### communities as a public benefit. 2 

### We also suggest that EPA include 3 

### strategies to support community solar and 4 

### distributed generation to the benefit of low and 5 

### moderate income communities. 6 

### EPA should ensure that the Final Federal 7 

### Plan provides a system for allocation of 8 

### allowances to efficiency -- that ensures that 9 

### efficiency, whether delivered by a utility state 10 

### program or third party will be a default included 11 

### element in every state with a federal pan. 12

### MR. GUNNING: Fifteen seconds. Go ahead. 13

### MS. BEARDSLEY: I'm sorry. 14

### MR. GUNNING: Please. I apologize for 15 

### this. Go ahead. 16

### MS. BEARDSLEY: That's okay. 17

### And lastly, we support the proposal being 18 

### developed by an ad hoc coalition for a registry19 

### based system that would be part of the federal 20 

### system under a mass-based approach. 21

### MR. GUNNING: Okay. Great. 2223

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### MS. BEARDSLEY: Thank you. 1 

### MR. GUNNING: Okay. Again, apologies for 2


### the -- 3 

### MS. BEARDSLEY: That's okay. 4 

### MR. GUNNING: -- the glitch, but thank 5 

### you for your comments. 6 

### Any clarifying questions from the panel? 7 

### No? Thank you, Elizabeth, I appreciate that. 8 

### MS. BEARDSLEY: Thank you. 9 

### MR. GUNNING: Okay. Our next speaker is 10 

### Carolyn Slaughter. 11

### MS. SLAUGHTER: Thank you. 12

### MR. GUNNING: Please begin. 13

### MS. SLAUGHTER: My name is Carolyn 14 

### Slaughter, C-A-R-O-L-Y-N, S-L-A-U-G-H-T-E-R, and 15 

### I am the Director of Environmental Policy for the 16 

### American Public Power Association. 17

### I'd like to thank EPA for the opportunity 18 

### to speak during this public hearing on the 19 

### Agency's draft Federal Plan and Model Trading 20


### Rules. 21

### APPA is the national service organization 2224

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### representing the interest of not-for-profit 1 

### public utilities throughout the United States. 2 

### More than 2,000 public utility customers are part 3 

### of our membership. We provide over 15 percent of 4 

### all kilowatt hour sales for electricity to 5 

### consumers and do business in every state except 6 

### for Hawaii. 7 

### All of APPA utility members are load8 

### serving entities with the primary goal of 9 

### providing customers in the communities they serve 10 

### with reliable electric power and energy at the 11 

### lowest cost consistent with good environmental 12 

### stewardship. This orientation aligns the 13 

### interests of APPA utility members with the long14 

### term interest of residents and businesses in 15 

### their communities. Collectively, APPA members 16 

### and the public utilities serve more than 48 17 

### million customers. 18

### U.S. EPA presumes that the national and 19 

### regional emissions trading markets will arise to 20 

### meet the carbon dioxide goals outlined in the 21 

### final emission guidelines, finalized on August 2225

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### the 3rd. 1 

### To that end I'd like to touch upon two 2 

### main points that are critical, we feel, for 3 

### affected utilities and states that participated 4 

### in the emissions trading scheme. Number one is 5 

### the proposed Federal Plan and Model Trading Rule 6 

### must be finalized in a manner that supports the 7 

### broadest possible emissions reductions possible. 8 

### Number two, states and affected sources 9 

### must seek the most cost effective means to 10 

### mitigate any increase in the cost of electricity 11 

### to consumers as a result of fully implementing 12 

### EPA's final emission guidelines. We believe one 13 

### means to create a very deep and wide emissions 14 

### trading program is to provide equity between the 15 

### treatment of energy efficiency and renewable 16 

### energy in a Federal Plan or in a Model Trading. 17

### In addition, all types of renewable 18 

### sources should be eligible to participate in 19 

### EPA's proposed Clean Energy Incentive Program. 20 

### Publicly owned utilities have well established 21 

### behind the meter renewable energy programs that 2226

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### can be utilized to meet the respective state CO2 1 

### emission reduction goals. 2 

### EPA should consider all energy efficiency 3 

### and renewable energy projects that commence 4 

### before 2018 to further incentivize CO2

### reductions. 5 

### Delaying in the implementation of RE or EE until 6 

### 2020 and 2021 is inconsistent with the goal of 7 

### reducing CO2

### emissions. 8 

### All compliance options must be available 9 

### to states to ensure cost of compliance is 10 

### affordable for consumers. The Energy Information 11 

### Agency predicts the cost of electricity to 12 

### significantly -- or to increase for consumers. 13

### The increase in -- the increase projected 14 

### despite the deployment of the past decades of 15 

### energy efficiency programs that helped to offset 16 

### some of the increases in consumer bills. For 17 

### public power utilities all of the costs were then 18 

### passed on to the consumers in their monthly 19 

### bills. 20

### Based upon a recent report by the 21 

### Electric Reliability Council of Texas, ERCOT, 2227

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### energy costs for consumers may increase 16 1 

### percent by 2030 due to the Final Emission 2 

### Guidelines only without accounting for the 3 

### associated transmission upgrades, higher natural 4 

### gas cost prices, procurement of additional 5 

### ancillary services and other costs associated 6 

### with the retirement or the decreased utilization 7 

### of coal fired facilities in the ERCOT region. 8 

### While at the same time we realize there 9 

### are important pieces of the final plan -- excuse 10 

### me, of the Federal Plan that are not yet 11 

### finalized. Consumers still don't know the true 12 

### cost of this particular regulation. 13

### EPA's carbon pollution emission 14 

### guidelines for existing sources has the ability 15 

### to transform the utility sector in an 16 

### unprecedented manner. We look forward to working 17 

### with the agency as we finalize the draft Federal 18 

### Plan and Model Trading Rules and to ensure that 19 

### it reflects the realities of the bulk electrical 20 

### system. APPA will be submitting comments on the 21 

### draft Federal Plan and Model Trading Rule. 2228

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### And I thank you for your attention and 1 

### time today. 2 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much. Thank 3 

### you for those comments, and we look forward to 4 

### your written comments as well. We appreciate the 5 

### input. 6 

### Any questions -- clarifying questions 7 

### from the panel? No. 8 

### Thank you both for your -- for your 9 

### comments and your input. 10

### MS. BEARDSLEY: Thank you. 11


### MR. GUNNING: Let me now ask the next two 12 

### registered speakers to please approach the table. 13 

### Deborah Graff and Wendy Johnson -- Johnston. 14

### Good morning to both of you. Let's start 15 

### with Deborah -- Deborah; is that correct 16 

### pronunciation? 17


### MS. GRAFF: Deborah. 18


### MR. GUNNING: Deborah. Go ahead. 19

### MS. GRAFF: I'm Deborah Graff, 20 

### D-E-B-O-R-A-H, G-R-A-F-F. And I come in support 21


### of the Clean Power Plan. 2229

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### The Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition 1 

### has made it possible for me to be here today. I 2 

### also work with Keepers of the Mountains and 3 

### Southern West Virginia to educate people about 4 

### the health and environmental problems with 5 

### mountaintop removal. 6 

### I live in southern West Virginia, an area 7 

### that desperately needs the EPA's help to move our 8 

### state to a more healthful way to live. While our 9 

### leaders seem to fight you on every step you take 10 

### to improve our overall air and water quality, I'm 11 

### here to tell you that they do not represent all 12 

### West Virginians. 13

### I would like to beg you to require a 14 

### strong Federal Plan for my state, one with 15 

### compliance checks that can be enforced strongly. 16 

### West Virginia does not seem able to take -- to 17 

### take care of -- to govern itself when it comes to 18 

### clean air and water. All you need to do is 19 

### Google our January 2014 Water Crisis when we were 20 

### all poisoned -- well, 300,000 were poisoned with 21 

### MCHM and our water supply. It's almost two years 2230

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### later, and our legislature has failed to pass 1 

### laws to protect us from that happening again. 2 

### West Virginians need the Clean water 3 

### power -- Clean Power Plan to be strong in 4 

### compliance and in the enforcement of such at this 5 

### federal level. We won't do it at a state -- our 6 

### leaders won't do it at a state level. So I'm 7 

### asking you to make that really strong. 8 

### And I thank you for allowing me to be 9 

### here and to come here and to speak for the 10 

### Appalachian people who are not represented by 11 

### their leaders. Thank you. 12

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your -- and 13 

### thank you for taking the trip and traveling to 14 

### D.C. I appreciate your comments. 15

### MS. GRAFF: The big city. 16

### MR. GUNNING: Big city. Wendy? 17

### MS. JOHNSTON: Hello. My name is Wendy 18 

### Johnston, W-E-N-D-Y, J-O-H-N-S-T-O-N. I am from 19 

### West Virginia and I am able to speak here today 20 

### because of the work of the Ohio Valley 21 

### Environmental Coalition and Keeper of the 2231

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### Mountains. 1 

### I am speaking in support of the Clean 2 

### Power Plan but with the thought of being mindful 3 

### for the need for truly clean energy through wind 4 

### and solar. I am a librarian, a farmer, a 5 

### business owner, and a citizen of a state that has 6 

### put its eggs in one basket at the expense of the 7 

### health and well being of the people who live 8 

### there for far too long. The -- the cost of the 9 

### detrimental health effects of mining, hauling, 10 

### and burning coal for the citizens who live within 11 

### its mining communities far exceeds the economic 12 

### benefits of mining that coal in these 13 

### communities. 14

### While the use of coal for electricity 15 

### nationwide has decreased, my home state of West 16 

### Virginia still produces 95 percent of our 17 

### electricity through coal fired power plants. 18 

### Even with the facts that show how CO2

### emissions 19 

### contribute to climate change, our politicians and 20 

### lawmakers continue to favor the coal industry 21 

### over the health of our citizens, all while 2232

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### convincing our citizens that we will be living in 1 

### the cold and dark without coal fired electricity 2 

### while the countries of Germany, Norway, Scotland, 3 

### and many more are moving forward with programs to 4 

### provide all energy use through wind and solar 5


### power. 6 

### At home we are encouraged by our 7 

### politicians to deny the existence of climate 8 

### change to support an industry that has been 9 

### killing our people for over a hundred years, by 10 

### unsafe working conditions and the poisoning of 11 

### our air, water, and earth. 12

### Those of us who speak out for the health 13 

### and well being of our earth and people are 14 

### subjected to ridicule, job discrimination, and 15 

### acts of violence as well as the loss of our own 16 

### good health. Even though the coal industry has 17 

### taken a huge economic blow in Central Appalachia, 18 

### coal mining underground still exists. And 19 

### unfortunately, the total obliteration of the 20 

### second most bio diverse forest in the world 21 

### through mountaintop removal, coal extraction 2233

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### still exists. 1 

### The mountains in West Virginia and other 2 

### central Appalachian states are subjected to 3 

### explosions of millions of pounds of ammonium 4 

### nitrate and diesel fuel every week for -- to 5 

### reach thin seams of the coal below, coal that is 6 

### layered within the geological layers of our earth 7 

### to provide filtering of the water that originates 8 

### in our mountains and travels from there to 9 

### provide clean drinking water for millions of 10 

### people in the southeast United States. 11

### In the year 2010 I marched with many of 12 

### my fellow citizens and Appalachians and passed 13 

### this building chanting EPA, do your job. Our 14 

### communities were and still are suffering daily at 15 

### the hands of the coal industry. I want to say 16 

### that I support the Clean Power Plan, but I do 17 

### urge you to move along with its implementation 18 

### quickly. Do not believe the coal politicians in 19 

### Appalachia who state that the people of our 20 

### region do not support the efforts of the EPA. I 21 

### am, frankly, ashamed that our state government 2234

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### has attempted to sue the EPA for its attempts to 1 

### protect the environment and health of people over 2 

### the profits of a rogue industry. We live in the 3 

### Congressional District represented by Evan 4 

### Jenkins, formerly represented by Nick Joe Rahall. 5 

### For the past several years a study has 6 

### found that the district that I live in, that I 7 

### raised my children in, has ranked last in health 8 

### and physical well-being of its people. Over the 9 

### last several years we have fought for last place 10 

### with a Kentucky district represented by Senator 11 

### Hal Rogers, a district where two of my children 12 

### live and where my future grandchildren will 13 

### probably grow up. 14

### These two districts also happen to be the 15 

### areas of the largest amount of coal extraction in 16 

### the U.S. We also include some of the poorest 17 

### areas in America where millions and millions of 18


### tons of coal have been extracted and fueled our 19 

### nation for many years. 20

### I want to thank the Obama Administration, 21 

### the EPA, and our President for finally addressing 2235

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### the issues of climate change and the poorly 1 

### regulated use of fossil fuels. I also want to 2 

### thank Larry Gibson, the Keeper of the Mountains 3 

### who spoke to the EPA multiple times to bring the 4 

### message of the struggle that the Appalachian 5 

### people face every day at the hands of the coal 6 

### industry. He is no longer with us. He passed 7 

### away trying to save the mountain that he loved. 8 

### Because of his great work and because I am 9 

### somebody and I matter, Appalachia and her people 10 

### matter. Thank you. 11

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your 12 

### comments, and thanks also for coming to D.C. -- 13

### MS. JOHNSTON: Absolutely. 14

### MR. GUNNING: -- to share that with us. 15 

### Thank you both. I'm going to move on to call the 16 

### next two panelists up. Thank you. 17

### I'd like to ask Quinn Weber and Leah 18 

### Rampy to please come to the table. Mr. Weber, 19 

### we'll start with you. Please begin. 20

### MR. WEBER: Good morning. My name is 21 

### Quinn Weber, Q-U-I-N-N, W-E-B-E-R. I am an 2236

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### Environmental and Health Program Intern for 1 

### Physicians for Social Responsibility, PSR, an 2 

### organization made up of health professionals 3 

### dedicated to protecting human lives from the 4 

### gravest threats to health and survival. Climate 5 

### change is most definitely one of those grave 6


### threats. 7 

### We applaud the Clean Power Plan for its 8 

### efforts to move America to a more sustainable 9 

### future with renewable energy and lower carbon 10 

### emissions. Climate change is by far one of the 11 

### greatest threats to human health. And as the 12 

### world gathers in Paris, it must work to heal its 13 

### wounds from climate change. 14

### Humans harming one another has seemed to 15 

### be a common theme in Paris the past few days, but 16 

### instead of watching helplessly in horror, as I am 17 

### sure many of in the room had to do on Friday 18 

### night, a little less than two weeks we will have 19 

### the chance to do some more healing in a different 20 

### area at the COP21 Summit the nations of the world 21 

### will sit together and agree on a plan to keep the 2237

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### rise in global temperature lower than 2 degrees 1 

### Celsius. Anything less than that will risk human 2 

### lives due to the consequences of climate change. 3 

### The Clean Power Plan will be integral to 4 

### the United States' role in being a global leader 5 

### in that regard. You, yourselves, have estimated 6 

### that the Clean Power Plan will avert 90,000 child 7 

### asthma attacks. We can go a step further though. 8 

### As they implement the Clean Power Plan, states 9 

### can avoid using natural gas and nuclear energy as 10


### well. 11

### Natural gas, through hydro fracking, 12 

### conventional wells, and related infrastructure 13 

### can cause the contamination of drinking water as 14 

### well as a host of other public health conditions 15 

### for those that live around the wells. 16

### In the longer term, methane is a 17 

### greenhouse gas that contributes greatly to global 18 

### warming. If the Clean Power Plan is to be 19 

### successful, natural gas must not be included as 20 

### an option in the States' plans. (Coughing.) 21 

### Excuse me, I'm a little sick. 2238

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### I should not have to go much into the 1 

### dangers of nuclear energy as well. The risks 2 

### have already been made apparent by -- in places 3 

### like Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. 4 

### While the Clean Power Plan needs to 5 

### restrict what is harmful to health, it also needs 6 

### to encourage what we do need. Solar is a 7 

### renewable that has long been lauded as the future 8 

### of energy production, but with the price of solar 9 

### panels dropping lower while many start popping up 10 

### in every class of neighborhood, it is probably 11 

### time to admit the future is now for solar. 12

### I especially would like to point out that 13 

### renewable energies could replace both coal and 14 

### natural gas plants that often occupy low income 15 

### communities. 16

### A solar panel does not pollute the 17 

### groundwater of a community or decrease your 18 

### property value. Wind turbines do not leak 19 

### greenhouse gas, 86 times more potent than carbon 20 

### dioxide, over 20 years. 21

### I want to leave you with a small 2239

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### reflection on a bit of advice my mother often 1 

### gives me: An ounce of prevention is better than 2 

### a pound of cure. Well, we are well past an ounce 3 

### of prevention. We certainly have the collective 4 

### power to summon up a pound of cure. 5 

### Thank you. 6 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you very much for 7 

### your comments. Any clarifying questions? No? 8 

### Thank you. 9 

### Let me now turn to -- is it Leah? 10

### MS. RAMPY: Leah, yes. 11


### MR. GUNNING: Please. 12

### MS. RAMPY: Good morning. My name is 13 

### Leah, L-E-A-H; Rampy, R-A-M-P-Y. 14

### I speak today as a member of the Virginia 15 

### League of Conservation Voters Action Team and as 16 

### a member of the Unitarian Universalist Church of 17 

### Arlington, Virginia. I serve on the Steering 18 

### Committee for the Interfaith Power and Light of 19 

### D.C., Maryland, and Northern Virginia, an 20 

### organization that supports hundreds of 21 

### congregations in this area to save energy and to 2240

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### respond to climate change. 1 

### I also speak as the mother of two young 2 

### adults, Andrew and Ana, and I believe that my 3 

### children, your children, and all children have 4 

### the right to a healthy future on this amazing 5 

### planet. 6 

### You have asked for our views and 7 

### arguments concerning the Clean Power Plan. I 8 

### strongly support its implementation for three 9 

### reasons: Number one: Setting achievable state10 

### by-state goals to cut carbon pollution would 11 

### begin to address the issue of climate change. 12 

### 2014 was the hottest year on record, and 2015 is 13 

### likely to break that record. My children have 14


### never known normal weather. 15

### The burning of carbon-based fuels, 16 

### especially coal has driven CO2

### levels to new 17 

### heights, bringing us extreme weather, droughts, 18 

### floods, and rising seas. Our sister UU 19 

### congregation of Norfolk, Virginia, knows well the 20 

### increasing challenge of coastal flooding. They 21 

### must schedule memorial services and other events 2241

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### to conclude before high tide so that those 1 

### attending will not be stranded. 2 

### Climate change is one of the most 3 

### critical moral issues humanity has ever faced. 4 

### Our decisions to burn fossil fuels are impacting 5 

### the supply of food and water around the world. 6 

### This is an issue of social justice, and we cannot 7 

### in conscience turn away. The force multiplier of 8 

### climate change as we speak is continuing to 9 

### deliver up an immense wave of climate refugees. 10 

### And this is just the beginning of increasing 11 

### global displacement. It is past time to slash 12 

### our carbon emissions. 13


### Number two: The Clean Power Plan offers 14 

### significant health benefits. According to Gina 15 

### McCarthy, in 2030 we'll avoid up to 3,600 fewer 16 

### premature deaths, 90,000 fewer asthma attacks in 17 

### children, 1,700 fewer hospital emissions. This 18 

### is a moral issue. 19

### Future generations may well ask when you 20 

### found out that carbon pollution was contributing 21 

### to asthma illness and death for the most 2242

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### vulnerable, did you stop it. When you knew that 1 

### low income people and people of color were 2 

### suffering disproportionately from air pollution 3 

### from the power plants in their neighborhoods, did 4 

### you take action? 5 

### I ask you to move with alacrity to 6 

### implement the Clean Power Plan for the sake of 7 

### these and all people. 8 

### Number three: It's just common sense. 9


### The Clean Power Plan has been well vetted. 10 

### You've already received millions of comments. 11 

### You've made adjustments based on the input of 12 

### states and utilities. It's estimated that by 13 

### 2030 net public health and climate-related 14 

### benefits will be worth $45 billion. The Clean 15


### Power Plan makes sense. 16

### This administration and the EPA have 17 

### shown courageous leadership with the creation of 18 

### a fair, just, and workable Clean Power Plan. I 19 

### encourage you to continue your courageous 20 

### leadership throughout the implementation of this 21 

### plan. We cannot flag on the journey to support a 2243

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### livable planet for all people today and for years 1 

### to come. Thank you. 2 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you. Thank you for 3 

### your comments -- your thoughtful comments. 4 

### Appreciate that. Any questions of clarification? 5 

### No? Thank you both, appreciate it. 6 

### MR. WEBER: Thank you. 7 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you for coming in 8 

### this morning. 9 

### We have two more speakers I'd like to 10 

### call to the front. And in advance forgive my 11 

### mispronunciation of this one -- Elana -- is it 12 

### Orbuch, Orbuch -- and Chris Yoder, please. is 13 

### Chris here? Okay. 14

### Good morning to both of you. Thank you 15 

### for coming in today. Elana, please begin. 16

### MS. ORBUCH: Okay. So, E-L-A-N-A, 17 

### O-R-B-U-C-H. Thank you for the opportunity to 18 

### testify. My name's Elana Orbuch, and I work with 19 

### Interfaith Power and Light. At Interfaith Power 20 

### and Light we're working with hundreds of 21 

### congregations, as Leah just said, of all faith -- 2244

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### of all faiths across our region as they find 1 

### their religious response to the climate crisis. 2 

### According to my own Jewish tradition, it 3 

### is our communal obligation to be critical when we 4 

### see that societies or individuals are making 5 

### mistakes. It says in Leviticus 19:17, you shall 6 

### rebuke your neighbor. 7 

### So when we recognize that our society 8 

### developed because of cheap energy at the expense 9 

### of the health and safety of the living beings on 10 

### our planet, and in particular, the vulnerable, 11 

### it's time to speak out. As you know power plants 12 

### are responsible for 40 percent of carbon 13 

### pollution in the United States, which is the 14 

### leading cause of climate change. Carbon 15 

### pollution leads to increased rates of asthma in 16 

### children. It contributes to more frequent deadly 17 

### destructive, cost effective or costly extreme 18 

### weather events. And this is why we need to speak 19 

### out and take concrete actions. 20

### At Interfaith Power and Light we work 21 

### with communities and congregations of all 2245

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### religious traditions to speak out and address 1 

### climate and energy issues. The caring folk of 2 

### these religious communities take action because 3 

### they recognize that God loves all humanity, and 4 

### we should act in the image of God to care for 5 

### creation and others. Congregations and the DMV 6 

### are leading and supporting the transition to 7 

### clean energy through wind and solar panels -- 8 

### wind energy and solar panels. 9 

### And so many states people are ready to 10 

### lead the way with their own clean power plans. 11 

### these post cards -- right here (indicating) -- 12 

### are signed by just a few of the many caring folks 13 

### in Northern Virginia who are speaking out to 14 

### Governor McAuliffe in support of a strong state 15 

### implementation in Virginia that addresses climate 16 

### pollution and accelerates our transition to clean 17


### power. 18

### These congregations are just one example 19 

### of how individuals are speaking out, but it's not 20 

### enough to have thoughtful socially aware 21 

### individuals or groups taking action. We need to 2246

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### begin leading as a nation on clean energy. 1 

### The Clean Power Plan is the first step in 2 

### a journey to adjust a sustainable world. And it 3 

### needs to start now with the Federal 4 

### Implementation Plan which provides the necessary 5 

### security and guidance for individual states to 6 

### create states' specific reduction plans. The 7 

### Federal Implementation Plan puts a guaranty that 8 

### we will never have to choose between healthy 9 

### economies and a healthy community. 10

### Carbon pollution needs to be history. We 11 

### need to aim for a cleaner, more just future for 12 

### both our planet and our fellow human beings. We 13 

### need this Clean Power Plan and its Federal 14 

### Implementation to set an example to ensure we 15 

### stop developing at the expense of our nation's 16 

### health and vulnerable populations. 17

### We have a sacred obligation to be 18 

### critical, and this criticism comes out of a deep 19 

### care for creation. Criticism is not, however, 20 

### sufficient. Words need to develop into action. 21 

### The Federal Implementation of the Clean Power 2247

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### Plan is an example of such action. Together we 1 

### can protect our communities and the health of our 2 

### children. 3 

### Please start by taking action and 4 

### approving the Federal Implementation Plan. Thank 5 

### you very much. 6 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your 7 

### comments. Any questions? 8 

### Just -- also a reminder, please -- and to 9 

### all panelists who are speakers, submit those post 10 

### cards to the desk for the record, too. 11


### MS. ORBUCH: Great. 12

### MR. GUNNING: Be great. We appreciate 13 

### every comment. 14

### Chris? 15

### MR. YODER: My name is Charles Christian 16 

### Yoder, spelled Y-O-D-E-R. That's Yankee, Oscar, 17 

### Delta, Echo, Romeo. And I appear before you this 18 

### morning for two reasons. First, I'm a 19 

### grandfather; and second, I'm a resident of the 20 

### City of Baltimore, Maryland. 21

### As a grandfather I can expect my youngest 2248

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### grandchild to live until at least the 2070's and 1 

### perhaps much longer. Her children may well see 2 

### the dawn of the 22nd century. 3 

### Many people argue that the use of the 4 

### years 2050 or 2100 as when -- as the deadline by 5 

### which we have to take action to be -- effectively 6 

### address global warming -- they argue that this is 7 

### abstract, or they act as though it's abstract, 8 

### unreal, imaginary. It's easy to rant and rage 9 

### [sic] about policy decisions offering the 10 

### prospect of inconvenient change as best and 11 

### perhaps even economic dislocation. And I, by the 12 

### way, don't accept either of those assertions. 13

### It's easy for demagogues to stir up 14 

### opposition to benefits that will be realized only 15 

### when the calendar turns to some distant and 16 

### abstract date; but to me, those dates are 17 

### immediate. They are embodied in the lives of 18 

### people I know and love. Our warming planet is 19 

### real. The temperature increases are measured. 20 

### The greenhouse effect has been well understood 21 

### for well over a century. The increased 2249

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### greenhouse gas pollutants are a documented fact. 1 

### Some people will probably argue -- 2 

### certainly they do in public -- to address this 3 

### problem with what I call the Egyptian River 4 

### Solution, that is, to live in a state of de Nile. 5 

### That's no solution at all. 6 

### On the other hand, the Clean Power Plan 7 

### is a concrete tangible step towards a real 8 

### solution to a real problem. While more needs to 9 

### be done -- and I would argue the plan needs to be 10 

### strengthened and loopholes closed -- I do support 11 

### the plan. The Federal Implementation Plan must 12 

### be made final, and that plan must be vigorously 13 

### implemented. 14

### The second reason I journeyed to 15 

### Washington this morning is my residency in the 16 

### City of Baltimore. Baltimore children suffer 17 

### from a very high rate of asthma and other lung 18 

### diseases, and this is no coincidence -- Baltimore 19 

### hosts two polluting coal fired power plants. 20 

### Right now Baltimore suffers from what economists 21 

### call market failure. When I make a decision to 2250

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### make electricity, I do not pay the full cost of 1 

### that decision. It's not really a free market 2 

### decision because part of the cost of the power I 3 

### consume in Baltimore is paid by sick children and 4 

### the infirmed elderly who are forced to use their 5 

### lungs to filter the pollution from those plants. 6 

### The Air Force will sometimes talk about 7 

### collateral damage when they conduct an air 8 

### strike. The Clean Power Plan does the opposite. 9 

### I will explain. By forcing the owners of coal 10 

### fired plants to clean up their act, reduce demand 11 

### for power or switch to sustainable power 12 

### generation, the Clean Power Plan will provide our 13 

### nation, in general, and the people in Baltimore, 14 

### in particular, with a collateral benefit -- the 15 

### opposite of collateral damage. 16

### In summary, the Clean Power Plan and the 17 

### Federal Implementation Plan should be adopted, 18 

### and they should be vigorously implemented because 19 

### they will benefit the people who embody our 20 

### nation with benefits now and in the future. 21 

### Thank you. 2251

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### MR. GUNNING: Thank you. Thank you very 1 

### much. Thanks for coming down from Baltimore to 2 

### -- to join us today and to offer those thoughts. 3 

### Any questions? No. Thank you both. We 4 

### appreciate it. 5 

### Let me now ask the next two speakers to 6 

### -- to approach the table: Olivia Alperstein and 7 

### Chandler Wilfred. 8 

### Thank you both for joining us today and 9 

### for taking your time out to come to offer your 10 

### thoughts. Let's -- Olivia, start with you, 11 

### please. 12

### MS. ALPERSTEIN: Okay. My name is Olivia 13 

### Alperstein, A-L-P as in Peter-E-R-S as in Sam-T 14 

### as in Tom-E-I-N as in Nancy. As you can tell, 15 

### I've got a lot of practice on that. 16

### I am here representing Progressive 17 

### Congress today. Thank you so much for the 18 

### opportunity to speak on this very important 19 

### issue. 20

### I, like everyone else in my organization 21 

### believes that climate justice is racial justice 2252

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### and that environmental justice is racial justice. 1 

### I believe very strongly that the ways in which 2 

### low income communities are being impacted are 3 

### being felt throughout society today. 4 

### I, myself, have lived most of my life 5 

### below the poverty line. I can tell you from 6 

### experience that the health issues that are 7 

### affecting millions of people in millions of 8 

### communities that do not have the resources to 9 

### actually be here at this hearing today, who for 10 

### many reasons cannot afford even to get on a bus 11 

### her in D.C. and testify at this hearing because 12 

### many of them are working for 12, 14, 16 hour 13 

### shifts. I believe that those people are the 14 

### people who are the most important people to be 15 

### speaking out today because they are the people 16 

### who are represented in hospitals. 17

### I live right next to five different 18 

### hospitals, including the Children's Hospital. 19 

### Several members of my community -- my neighbors 20 

### -- have children who are suffering from severe 21 

### chronic asthma. I, myself, suffered as a child, 2253

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### and I can say that the experience of a parent who 1 

### is trying to afford to care for their child but 2 

### also cannot take off work days, cannot take off 3 

### sick days, those are real environmental impacts 4 

### on people but also on people's livelihoods. If 5 

### you have people who are near a power plant whose 6 

### children become sick, who they themselves become 7 

### sick, they cannot afford necessarily to seek the 8 

### treatment that they most desperately need. They 9 

### also cannot afford the millions of dollars that 10 

### are spent in lobbying fees, in consultant fees by 11 

### the Clean Power Plans to try to convince people 12 

### that these are solutions that they can hold 13 

### behind. 14

### I think that we need a clean renewable 15 

### energy future because people, particularly in 16 

### communities of color, are the first people to be 17 

### selected to make a sacrifice on behalf of the 18 

### rest of us who want electricity, the rest of us 19 

### who can afford to live in communities that are 20 

### full of solar panels, communities where we can 21 

### make the choice for ourselves to have a clean 2254

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### renewable energy future. We must stand up and 1 

### speak up for those who cannot afford to be here 2 

### today and to testify. 3 

### And more than that, I think that it 4 

### is our responsibility as people who do have a 5 

### voice to make sure that the plan that we do 6 

### implement fully takes into account the fact that 7 

### people of color are disproportionately affected 8 

### by these plans and these changes that we are 9 

### making. And not only that, that low income 10 

### people around the world are feeling immediately 11 

### the impact of our decision about how to use our 12 

### energy. Thank you. 13

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your comments 14 

### and for speaking for those that couldn't be here 15 

### today. We appreciate that. 16

### Any clarifying questions? No, okay. 17

### Mr. Wilfred? 18

### MR. CANDLER: I am Wilfred Candler. 19 

### W-I-L-F-R-E-D; Candler, C-A-N-D-L-E-R, like 20 

### Chandler without the H. 21

### Hello. I am Will Candler from Annapolis. 2255

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### I am retired and a member of the Climate Stewards 1 

### of Greater Annapolis. I am making my statement 2 

### as a person in a personal capacity. 3 

### I'd like to congratulate the Supreme 4 

### Court for recognizing that our air is in need of 5 

### protection, and the Administration for directing 6 

### the EPA to give the states great flexibility in 7 

### proposing how they will meet the EPA guidelines. 8 

### As I'm sure you know, prior to 1850 9 

### humans had never experienced atmospheric CO2

### about 10 

### 300 parts per million. And we are currently at 11 

### 404 parts per million and climbing. Nothing in 12 

### our past experience assures us that anything over 13 

### 300 parts per million is safe. And judging by 14 

### the prevalence of asthma and other chronic 15 

### respiratory diseases, there is no reason to think 16


### current levels are safe. 17

### I regret to have to tell the EPA it does 18 

### not have a Clean Power Plan. It has a less dirty 19 

### power plan. And thank you for that. Let's call 20 

### a spade a spade. 21


### The Clean Power Plan would take us back 2256

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### to 300 parts per million in the atmospheric CO2

### . 1 

### Ice-Core data tells that from the depth of the 2 

### glacial maximum until 1850 atmospheric CO2 3 

### increased 100 parts per million, from 180 parts 4 

### to 280 parts per million. Since 1850 we've added 5 

### a further 124 parts per million CO2

### . So -- so, it 6 

### should not be surprised if temperatures rise more 7 

### than between the glacial minimum and 1850. 8 

### That's linear thinking, but think about it 9 

### especially if you're thinking of having children 10 

### and grandchildren, something like that. 11

### States that persist in permitting the use 12 

### of fossil fuel should, at the very least, be 13 

### required to switch to natural gas. I know it's 14 

### too late to plead for stronger limits, but I 15 

### would seriously ask that the EPA guidelines be 16 

### interpreted stringently and that EPA not hesitate 17 

### to reject state proposals that fail to meet or 18 

### exceed -- fail to meet or fail -- or anyway, 19 

### don't exceed the guidelines. Thank you. 20

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you for your 21 

### comments. Any questions for the two speakers? 2257

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### No? Thank you both for taking the time today to 1 

### come and offer your thoughts and comments. 2 

### The next speaker I'd like to ask to come 3 

### up is -- I believe we have one additional speaker 4 

### -- Kenna Hawes, please. Good morning. 5 

### MS. HAWES: Good morning. 6 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you for coming. 7 

### MS. HAWES: Yes, thank you. So, my name 8 

### is Kenna, K-E-N-N-A, and my last name is Hawes, 9 

### H-A-W-E-S. And I'm here with the Sierra Club, 10 

### but I'm also here because I am from Walkersville, 11 

### Maryland. And I'm here to speak about the Clean 12 

### Power Plan which I think has a lot of good things 13 

### in store for Maryland. 14

### As a Marylander, I think that the 15 

### approach of the plan is very sensible and also 16 

### sensitive to states' unique strategic 17 

### imperatives. And as a Marylander, I am also 18 

### acutely aware of the effect that coal fueled 19 

### power plants have on the health of people and of 20 

### ecosystems. 21

### So, Maryland has seven coal fired power 2258

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### plants, which according to a 2014 study, are 1 

### responsible for about 30 percent of Maryland's 2 

### significant carbon output. CO2

### is, as we all 3 

### know, a major agent in climate change. And as a 4 

### Marylander, that's something I am also very aware 5


### of. 6 

### My hometown is a small town in western, 7 

### central western Maryland, just north of the City 8 

### of Frederick. And it's a very agricultural area. 9 

### There's a very strong farming culture that's been 10 

### there for, you know, well over 200 years. And 11 

### the area has certainly suffered from recent 12 

### changes in climate. We've seen wetter falls and 13 

### springs. We've seen much dryer summers. These 14 

### have provoked a lot of concerns about whether the 15 

### crops that have always been grown in my area will 16 

### continue to be a viable option for those families 17 

### who depend on them, and also a lot of concerns 18 

### about where the water is coming from and how are 19 

### we going to irrigate if the summers continue this 20


### way. 21

### Climate change doesn't just stop there, 2259

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### of course, it also means a rising sea level; and 1 

### that is a truly terrifying proposition for my 2 

### state. Maryland has about 8,000 miles of 3 

### coastline. And although my hometown, being in 4 

### western Maryland, is relatively well insulated 5 

### from the rising sea level, many of my friends and 6 

### family who live in eastern Maryland, along with 7 

### 900,000 other Marylanders who live in that area 8 

### are definitely at risk. 9 

### So, eastern Maryland has a very rich 10 

### history, but this legacy is certainly endangered 11 

### by the rising ocean, which is actually already 12 

### happening. Water in the Chesapeake Bay is rising 13 

### at two to three times the rate of sea levels 14 

### worldwide, and Maryland's islands and shorelines 15 

### simultaneously are sinking, which means that the 16 

### sea level along Maryland's coast is actually 17 

### projected to rise about two feet by 2050. 18

### And if that happens, more than a couple 19 

### of communities in Maryland will cease to exist 20 

### entirely. Crisfield, which is Maryland's 21 

### southernmost town, has actually already seen its 2260

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### property values crash and its young people move 1 

### away as flooding has increased dramatically over 2 

### the past several years. 3 

### Holland Island was once a thriving 4 

### community, and it is now entirely under water. 5 

### It sank about four years ago. Smith Island, 6 

### which is the home of Maryland's state dessert, 7 

### the Smith Island Cake, is also certainly at risk 8 

### along with several wildlife preserves and other 9 

### towns. And even larger cities like Baltimore and 10 

### Annapolis will have to contend with flooding and 11 

### sea level rise that could result in millions of 12 

### dollars of damage and lost productivity in their 13 

### very important ports. 14

### The threat is actually so immediate that 15 

### Annapolis recently launched a Weather It Together 16 

### initiative which presents a plan for dealing with 17 

### climate change at the city level -- not even the 18 

### national or state level but the city itself. 19

### And in addition to this climate change 20 

### argument, there is a huge health and social 21 

### justice argument to be made for this plan as 2261

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### well. As Chris so eloquently discussed several 1 

### minutes ago, asthma rates in Baltimore are 2 

### incredibly high. They're about twice the 3 

### national average. Twenty percent of children 4 

### have been diagnosed with asthma. 5 

### And there is a reason, I think, that my 6 

### hometown doesn't have a coal burning power plant 7 

### nearby, and yet the City of Baltimore has two. 8 

### My hometown is very affluent and has a strong 9 

### political voice. As Olivia argued earlier, there 10 

### are many people from many communities who are not 11 

### able to be here today who do not have such a 12 

### voice. And I think on behalf of them it's really 13 

### important to consider this plan and potentially 14 

### even taking it further because this is really 15 

### just a problem that we should have addressed a 16 

### long time ago. 17

### So I'd like to end by noting that it's 18 

### our responsibility as a nation to support the 19 

### well being of all of our communities, whether 20 

### this means protecting individuals' health or 21 

### reducing our contribution to climate change at 2262

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### the national level. 1 

### I think that the EPA's plan is one of the 2 

### most substantial forms of support that I've seen, 3 

### and it is slated to reduce CO2

### emissions by 30 4 

### percent by 2030 which is a great start. I think 5 

### it's really important to address climate change 6 

### proactively while also improving air quality and 7 

### supporting energy innovation. 8 

### I also think it's critical that the EPA 9 

### promptly issue a Federal Implementation Plan if a 10 

### state does not comply with the Clean Power Plan. 11 

### And I think that this is because all communities 12 

### deserve to be included in a thoughtful assessment 13 

### and overhaul of our nation's approach to energy. 14 

### These changes really can't come soon enough. 15 

### It's already too late for some communities, but 16 

### there are still some that we'll be able to 17 

### preserve. Thank you. 18

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for your 19 

### thoughts. Questions? 20

### MS. JONES: I actually do have one 21 

### clarifying point. 2263

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### MR. GUNNING: Go ahead. 1 

### MS. JONES: Thank you so much. And I'd 2 

### also like to say thank you for the support that 3 

### you just expressed for the Clean Power Plan. 4 

### Two things that I just wanted to note 5 

### that were echoed in several of the other 6 

### testimonies earlier -- one being the need to 7 

### strengthen the Federal Plan and the other was the 8 

### comment about underserved or underrepresented 9 

### communities. 10

### One, I would like to make a point to 11 

### encourage support in those communities by having 12 

### them to submit written comments. Although they 13 

### were not represented here today in the public 14 

### hearing, those comments could be submitted 15 

### online. They don't have to be extensive, but to 16 

### hear that voice and express those concerns allows 17 

### the agency the opportunity to consider those 18


### comments. 19

### The second piece of the point I'd like to 20 

### make is also in ensuring that when the written 21 

### comments are submitted that the Agency receives 2264

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### detailed specifics regarding approaches or ways 1 

### for strengthening the plan so that we are also 2 

### able to fully consider those suggestions as well. 3 

### So, not necessarily a question but just 4 

### wanted to kind of reemphasize that since that 5 

### seemed to be a reoccurring theme in some of the 6 

### testimonies we've heard so far this morning. 7 

### MS. HAWES: Yes, helpful to hear it. 8 

### Thank you. 9 

### MS. JONES: Yes, thank you. 10

### MR. GUNNING: Thanks, Toni. Thank you 11 

### again. Appreciate it. 12

### I think we are going to pause now. I 13 

### think we're going to take a break for 15 minutes. 14 

### Let's see. It's almost a quarter after 10:00, so 15 

### let's -- let's say we'll reconvene at 10:30. 16 

### Right now I think we have a lull in terms of the 17 

### speakers, so it's an opportune time to take a 18 

### break. So we will reconvene at 10:30. Thank 19


### you. 20

### (Brief recess.) 21

### MR. GUNNING: Okay. Good morning again. 2265

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### We took a little bit longer than a 15-minute 1 

### break, but we're back at 10:45. We will resume. 2 

### I will now call the next two registered 3 

### speakers up to the table, please. Can I ask 4 

### Sarah Bucci and Christy Leavitt, please, to come 5


### forward. 6 

### Good morning. How are you? Just -- just 7 

### to remind you, we have five -- five minutes. So 8 

### the lights will -- the lights will warn you. Get 9 

### green, yellow, and then red -- 10

### MS. BUCCI: I don't think I'll take -- 11

### MR. GUNNING: -- to stop. 12

### MS. BUCCI: -- that long, but -- 13

### MR. GUNNING: That's okay. Let's start 14 

### with Sarah, please. 15

### MS. BUCCI: Great. So, Sarah Bucci, 16 

### B-U-C-C-I. I am the State Director with 17 

### Environment Virginia. We're a citizen-based 18 

### environmental advocacy group representing 20,000 19 

### members and supporters in the Commonwealth of 20 

### Virginia, and have, myself, spoken at many of 21 

### these hearings, and many of our members have 2266

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### attended and want to just to continue to express 1 

### our strong support for the Clean Power Plan. 2 

### In Virginia the two key reasons why this 3 

### is so important to us is because, one, we are one 4 

### of the most vulnerable states when it comes to 5 

### the impacts of climate change; and so it's 6 

### something that we need to tackle right away. And 7 

### then second, it's a huge opportunity for our 8 

### state to use the Clean Power Plan to invest and 9 

### grow our clean energy economy. And those are the 10 

### two things that are really most important to 11 

### myself and our members. 12

### So, a recent Environment Virginia report 13 

### found that Virginia is really lagging behind when 14 

### it comes to clean energy across the country, so 15 

### we are ranked 30th in the nation when it comes to 16 

### solar power, while our neighbor to the south, 17 

### North Carolina, is ranked 4th for the amount of 18 

### solar PVs that we have installed. And we have a 19 

### lot of the same climate and a lot of the same 20 

### size as North Carolina, and so, for many 21 

### Virginians, especially those in the solar 2267

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### industry, it's really distressing to see that we 1 

### could be doing so much more. 2 

### And, in fact, the District of Columbia, 3 

### in our report, had 10 megawatts of solar power 4 

### installed just in the District at the end of 5 

### 2014, and Virginia had 12. So if you think about 6 

### the land area, the District of Columbia is less 7 

### than one percent of the area of the Commonwealth 8 

### of Virginia. So, I think there's huge room for 9 

### improvement and I see our implementation of the 10 

### Clean Power Plan as a great way to grow this 11 

### shining industry. 12

### I'm very proud to say that our governor 13


### has embraced the Clean Power Plan and has 14 

### publicly supported the EPA's Clean Power Plan. 15 

### And so, we are urging him to take implementation 16 

### approach in our state implementation plan that 17 

### really focuses on energy efficiency on clean 18 

### energy like solar and wind. 19

### And so I hope that the rest of the states 20 

### across the country take a similar approach and 21 

### that the, you know, Federal Implementation Plan 2268

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### really also offers that as the main incentive for 1 

### states to reduce their carbon emissions. 2 

### And then the first point that I 3 

### mentioned, Virginia is incredibly vulnerable to 4 

### the impacts of climate change which is one of the 5 

### reasons why many of our coastal members in 6 

### particular feel it's so important for the 7 

### Commonwealth to act. Certainly, no city or 8 

### state, or country is going to tackle this huge 9 

### problem all on our own, but we need to do our own 10 

### part. And as the state with a coast that's the 11 

### second most vulnerable to sea level rise and sea 12 

### level rise happening in the Hampton Roads region 13 

### is happening twice as fast as the rest of the 14 

### east coast, I think it's incumbent upon us to 15 

### really be a leader and show that, you know, we 16 

### want to do our part and aggressively take on the 17 

### challenge of reducing our carbon emissions. 18

### So, in conclusion, I am incredibly 19 

### excited about the opportunity that the Clean 20


### Power Plan offers to the Commonwealth of 21 

### Virginia. We are very supportive of the EPA and 2269

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### are excited to see states implement this across 1 

### the country. Thank you. 2 

### MR. GUNNING: Great. Thank you for those 3 

### comments. I, personally, did not know that 4 

### statistic about Virginia, and I am a resident of 5 

### Virginia. So, thank you. 6 

### MS. BUCCI: Yes, it's surprising. 7 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you for sharing that. 8 

### Christy, please, the floor -- the floor 9 

### is yours. 10

### MS. LEAVITT: Thank you. Good morning. 11 

### I'm Christy Leavitt. The last name is 12 

### L-E-A-V-I-T-T. And I'm here this morning on 13 

### behalf of Environment Maryland, a statewide 14 

### citizen-based environmental advocacy group. 15

### First, I want to thank EPA and President 16 

### Obama for moving forward with the Clean Power 17 

### Plan. Limiting global warming pollution from 18 

### power plants is so important, and it's such a big 19 

### step to deal with global warming and to be able 20 

### to protect our children and future generations 21 

### from the worst impacts of climate change. 2270

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### Climate change isn't a problem for 1 

### tomorrow. It's a problem that we need to be 2 

### dealing with today and acting on today. We've 3 

### already seen -- (bumped microphone) I'm sorry -- 4 

### we've seen the impacts of global warming in 5 

### Maryland and around the country. 2014 was the 6 

### hottest year globally, and 2015 is looking to 7 

### surpass that. 8 

### Ninety percent of Maryland residents live 9 

### in counties that have had and been hit by an 10 

### extreme weather event, and, in fact, a federally 11 

### declared disaster in the last five years. And in 12 

### Baltimore County alone nine federally declared 13 

### weather disasters have been there since 2010. 14

### We know that global warming is largely 15 

### caused by carbon pollution. And in 2012 16 

### Maryland's electric power sector emitted 18.7 17 

### million metric tons of carbon pollution. So, 18 

### must implement the Clean Power Plan as quickly as 19 

### possible and invest in clean, renewable energy 20 

### like wind and solar power. 21

### The good news for that is that Maryland 2271

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### and the rest of the country have the potential to 1 

### do just that. And Maryland -- Maryland has 2 

### enough solar potential to power the state 10 3 

### times over with just solar power alone. 4 

### On wind, similar to our neighbors to the 5 

### south, we have good potential to develop offshore 6 

### wind farms. And energy efficiency offers an 7 

### untapped potential to get more done using less 8 

### electricity. It's our cheapest and quickest way 9 

### to prevent global warming pollution. 10

### And Maryland is one of nine Mid-Atlantic 11 

### and northeastern states that are part of the 12 

### regional greenhouse gas initiative, also known as 13 

### RGGI, which has cut power plant emissions by 14 

### almost 50 percent over the last decade. And at 15 

### the same time provides revenues for states, which 16 

### those states that have largely invested in clean 17 

### energy programs such as Energy Efficiency, these 18 

### states need to continue to lead the way and to do 19



### even more. 20

### We need to move quickly towards hundred 21 

### percent clean renewable energy. As EPA finalizes 2272

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### the Model Rule and the Federal Implementation 1 

### Plan, please ensure that these programs include 2 

### provisions to support investments in clean energy 3 

### -- wind, solar, and energy efficiency. 4 

### And I have a few specific recommendations 5 

### for the proposed Model Rule. First, the faster 6 

### that EPA can finalize the Model Rule, the more 7 

### certainty states will have as they develop their 8 

### compliance plans and the more quickly they can 9 

### move forward. And I also urge EPA to consider 10 

### whether some components can be finalized shortly 11 

### after completion of the comment period. 12

### Next, EPA must ensure that the affected 13 

### power plants abide by enforceable limits on the 14 

### emissions of global warming pollution by applying 15 

### effective accountability measures. 16

### And then, last, EPA should apply the 17 

### Federal Plan provision swiftly if a state 18 

### declines to adequately carry out its 19 

### responsibility. 20

### So thank you very much for the 21 

### opportunity to speak. I definitely appreciate 2273

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### the work of you-all and the work of EPA and urge 1 

### you to move quickly as possible to implement and 2 

### finalize the Clean Power Plan. Thank you. 3 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you. And thank you 4 

### for the specific recommendations. We appreciate 5 

### that. And thanks to both of you for offering 6 

### different state perspectives. 7 

### Any clarifying questions beyond that? 8 

### No? Thank you both so much for coming in this 9 

### morning. 10

### I'd like to ask up or invite up our next 11 

### two speakers, Margie Alt and Annand -- Carrie 12 

### Annand. Good morning to both of you. 13

### MS. ALT: Good morning. 14

### MS. ANNAND: Good morning. 15

### MR. GUNNING: Margie Alt, let's begin 16 

### with you, please. The floor is yours. 17

### MS. ALT: Great. Thank you. I'm Margie 18 

### Alt, A-L-T. I'm the Director of Environment 19 

### America. We are a federation of state groups 20 

### like Environment Maryland and Environment 21 

### Virginia, and we have 29 state offices around the 2274

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### country, about 1.25 million members, activists, 1 

### and allies. And on behalf of all those people 2 

### and many, many others, I'm here to commend you 3 

### for your excellent work releasing the Clean Power 4 

### Plan and for your combat pay worthy work sitting 5 

### here today and listening to us. 6 

### I would like to say that I know it's been 7 

### a lot of work to get to this point. In addition 8 

### to my role at Environment America I've co-chaired 9 

### the Clean -- the Climate Action Campaign which is 10 

### a coalition of major national environmental 11 

### groups and 130 partners from all sorts of walks 12 

### of life. Together we have helped give rise to 8 13 

### million comments on behalf of the Clean Power 14 

### Plan and the rule to also prevent new power 15 

### plants from emitting carbon. 16

### And I know it's been a politically 17 

### challenging path to get here, but I also know it 18 

### has been a politically rewarding path to get 19 

### here. And more than that, I think it's a great 20 

### future for the country. 21

### Up until recently most of us have thought 2275

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### of global warming as a problem that's going to 1 

### happen somewhere to somebody else some day. And 2 

### I have to admit, despite knowing the science, I 3 

### thought that myself until about three years ago 4 

### when Super Storm Sandy devastated my home town of 5 

### Long Beach, New York, and my brother's family and 6 

### home in nearby Baldwin, New York. 7 

### And I wish I could say we were the only 8 

### people affected, but unfortunately, literally 9 

### millions of Americans are experiencing those same 10 

### problems, whether it's the wildfires in 11 

### California, or the recent flooding in South 12 

### Carolina, or the droughts, or all the other 13 

### impacts of climate here in the U.S. and around 14


### the world. 15

### And the truth of the matter is it's 16 

### today; it's now; it's here' it's us which means 17 

### we're the people to do something about it which 18 

### is why I'm so pleased that the EPA is taking this 19 

### dramatic action to implement the Clean Power 20


### Plan. 21

### I would like to add that I think the 2276

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### Clean Power Plan is not only the best solution we 1 

### have in the short term for limiting carbon 2 

### emissions, but it is also the best way to 3 

### leverage the clean energy economy and the fossil4 

### fuel-free country that we really need to build. 5 

### It's our vision that implementing this 6 

### plan swiftly will lead us just as swiftly to 100 7 

### percent renewables, both for our power sector and 8 

### for our transportation sector in this country. 9 

### We have the wind power in this country to 10 

### power the nation 10 times over. We have enough 11 

### sun to power the country 100 times over. Every 12 

### single state gets enough solar energy, or could, 13 

### to power all of its uses if we just tapped into 14 

### that. And, of course, energy efficiency remains 15 

### the quickest, cheapest, cleanest megawatt we 16


### don't need to use. 17

### So, if we use the Clean Power Plan to the 18 

### ultimate end of not only reducing carbon 19 

### emissions but leveraging clean energy, this 20 

### country will yet again lead the world in one of 21 

### the most important problems facing us here at 2277

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### home and abroad. 1 

### So, with that, let me make a couple of 2 

### specific recommendations. Number one, keep up 3 

### the good work. It can be challenging, but I 4 

### think this will not only be our legacy and the 5 

### President's legacy, but it will put the U.S. back 6 

### in a leadership position on the most important 7 

### issue facing the planet. 8 

### Number two, I hope you will use every 9 

### tool in your toolbox to ensure that efficiency is 10 

### the first option and renewables are the second 11 

### option. We do not have time to reinvest in other 12 

### fossil fuels besides coal. Even if they're 13 

### cleaner than coal, they are not clean enough. We 14 

### should use this as an opportunity to leap frog 15 

### gas and get straight to 100 percent renewables if 16 

### we use them to power our electricity sector now, 17 

### very soon they will be powering our 18 

### transportation sector, and this country can be a 19 

### zero net emissions country. 20

### Finally, I actually hope you never need 21 

### the Federal Implementation Plan. Working with 2278

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### states all across the country, I truly do believe 1 

### states are the best place to make these 2 

### decisions. States have led on renewables; 3 

### they've led on clean cars; they've led on 4 

### efficiency, and they can lead on implementation 5


### here. 6 

### That said, should any state any state 7 

### fail to lead, I hope you will work swiftly to use 8 

### a strong federal plan and not wait too long to 9 

### use it. 10

### And finally, I hope that you will create 11 

### a system for helping us and helping yourselves to 12 

### evaluate that states and utilities actually meet 13 

### the commitments they make in their plan and that 14 

### you make that system as transparent as possible 15 

### so all of us can be seeing how well states are 16 

### doing at meeting the goals, how well they're 17 

### doing at getting clean energy onto the grid, and 18 

### how much they're doing to protect human health 19 

### here at home, and then again allowing the U.S. to 20


### lead the world. 21

### So let me close by thanking you very much 2279

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### for what you're doing, for your leadership, for 1 

### your hard work, and for your vision in setting 2 

### the U.S. on the right track. 3 

### MR. GUNNING: Okay. Thank you so much. 4 

### Thanks for the specific recommendations as well 5 

### as the supportive comments. We appreciate that. 6 

### Carrie? 7 

### MS. ANNAND: Yes. My name is Carrie 8 

### Annand. I serve as Vice-President of External 9 

### Affairs at the Biomass Power Association here in 10 

### D.C. BPA is the national voice for energy 11 

### derived from wood and agricultural products. 12

### Biomass power is found in more than 20 13 

### states, provides approximately 14,000 jobs, and 14 

### about a billion dollars to the U.S. economy. 15 

### Biomass is, in the words of Administrator 16 

### McCarthy, as she toured a facility this week in 17 

### New Hampshire, an important part of our low 18


### carbon future. 19

### The importance of healthy forests in 20 

### fighting climate change is beyond dispute. 21 

### America's forests are responsible for storing the 2280

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### equivalent of a third of all carbon emissions 1 

### caused by the entire transportation sector 2 

### according to a report issued this week by 3 

### researchers at the U.S. Forest Service. 4 

### That same report noted, however, that the 5 

### ability of forests to function as carbon sinks is 6 

### directly related to their ability to maintain 7 

### markets for wood products, including bio energy. 8 

### That's why forests in the eastern United States 9 

### where land is actively managed and used for a 10 

### variety of products, including energy, are 11 

### experiencing a net growth and carbon stocks are 12 

### increasing. It also explains why some forests in 13 

### the west, which are racked with forest fires, 14 

### pests, and a lack of active management are at 15 

### risk of becoming sources of greenhouse gas 16 

### emissions. 17

### Not only do properly and actively managed 18 

### forests serve as mitigation for climate change, 19 

### but the fiber from these forests, when used for 20 

### energy, displaces fossil fuels. 21

### Biomass feedstocks in this country are 2281

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### vastly underutilized. The union of concerned 1 

### scientists analyzed the potential a couple years 2 

### ago and found that bio energy can provide up to 3 

### 20 percent of the nation's electricity demand. 4 

### Co-firing biomass with coal would not only 5 

### contribute to realizing the full potential of the 6 

### resource but would also significantly reduce 7 

### existing carbon emissions from the country's 8 

### aging fleet of coal plants. 9 

### A report by the -- the Rocky Mount 10 

### Institute and Earth Partners last year have 11 

### concluded that over 25 percent of coal used in 12 

### the country could be displaced by co-firing 13 

### biomass at existing coal plants. That is 14 

### equivalent to 300 million tons of carbon dioxide 15 

### annually. 16

### EPA has correctly concluded that biogenic 17 

### emissions are fundamentally different from fossil 18 

### emissions. EPA's decision in the Clean Power 19 

### Plan to exempt biogenic emissions from facilities 20 

### placed in service prior to 2013 from being 21 

### regulated under the Clean Air Act should be 2282

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### applauded. 1 

### At the same time regulatory certainty is 2 

### needed to begin to meet the full potential of 3 

### biomass available in this country. If we are 4 

### committed to preserving forests, its carbon 5 

### sinks, and utilizing fiber to displace fossil 6 

### fuel, biomass must play a key role. 7 

### We make the following recommendations and 8 

### will submit more extensive written comments in 9 

### January. First, in developing the model rule, 10 

### EPA should incorporate the role of qualified 11 

### biomass for states that do not submit a state 12 

### implementation plan. Within this framework EPA 13 

### should show deference to existing programs that 14 

### currently recognize biomass as a renewable 15 

### feedstock. In every state where biomass 16 

### facilities operate today, there exists a state 17 

### renewable portfolio standard. And every one of 18 

### these standards includes biomass as a qualifying 19 

### source of energy. EPA should avoid doing the 20 

### redundant work of rewriting what is and is not an 21 

### approved feedstock. The agency lacks the 2283

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### expertise to undertake such a review. 1 

### Moreover, the final rule provides a 2 

### definition of qualified biomass that gives the 3 

### agency significant flexibility to defer to state 4 

### programs. The standard is not zero emissions, 5 

### rather, it should -- it must be shown that 6 

### biomass is a method to control carbon dioxide 7 

### emissions. 8 

### If a state concludes that a feedstock is 9 

### per se a renewable and should be favored over 10 

### fossil fuels, that is the decision that the 11 

### agency should respect. Otherwise, EPA will be 12 

### rewriting state renewable policies which is 13 

### fundamentally at odds with the state's -- with 14 

### the agency's overall deference to states. 15

### Second, the tracking verification and 16 

### auditing of biomass feedstocks can be achieved by 17 

### relying upon existing state programs. Methods to 18 

### assure that biomass is stored sustainably vary by 19 

### state. Some states rely upon third-party 20 

### certification while others involve state agency 21 

### involvement. EPA should respect existing state 2284

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### programs. 1 

### As Administrator McCarthy said this week, 2 

### states like New Hampshire have had centuries of 3 

### understanding what sustainable forestry really 4 

### means. In adopting the Model Rule, we urge the 5 

### EPA to rely upon existing tracking verification 6 

### auditing programs. 7 

### We sincerely thank the EPA and 8 

### Administrator McCarthy for calling attention to 9 

### the role of biomass in the Clean Power Plan this 10 

### week, and we look forward to engaging with EPA 11 

### and state regulators at the biomass workshops 12 

### that were announced earlier this week as well. 13 

### Thank you. 14

### MR. GUNNING: Great. Thank you for those 15 

### comments and for those recommendations. We look 16 

### forward to getting your written comments as well 17 

### in January. 18

### Any clarifying questions for the 19 

### speakers? No. 20

### Thank you both for your time. Appreciate 21 

### it this morning. Thank you for coming in. 2285

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### My understanding is -- are there more 1 

### speakers? No? Okay. So we're going to -- 2 

### again, we'll pause until we have a critical mass 3 

### for some additional speakers. 4 

### It is now 11:05. We will resume, if we 5 

### have speakers, at 11:15. Thank you. 6 

### (Brief recess.) 7 

### MR. GUNNING: Good morning, again, 8 

### everyone. It's 11:15. We're going to resume 9



### now. 10

### And just as a reminder, I'll call two 11 

### speakers up at a time. Everyone has five 12 

### minutes. There's an aided timer here with colors 13 

### to remind everyone -- green, go; yellow, warning 14 

### there's a minute left; and then red is when we 15 

### ask you to conclude your remarks. 16

### And, also, just a reminder, too, please 17 

### -- after I call you up and you begin speaking, 18 

### please spell your name so that we can record your 19 

### comments appropriately. 20

### So let me ask the next two speakers to 21 

### please approach the table. Walton Shepherd and 2286

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### Barbara Weinstein. 1 

### Good morning to you both. 2 

### MR. SHEPHERD: Good morning. 3 

### MR. GUNNING: Okay. So, Mr. Shepherd, 4 

### let's start with you, please, if you can just 5 

### restate your name and spell it, and then we look 6 

### forward to your remarks. 7 

### MR. SHEPHERD: Sure. Walton Shepherd, 8 

### W-A-L-T-O-N; last name spelled S-H-E-P-H-E-R-D. 9 

### Yes, I wanted to start with a statement 10 

### of support for the Clean Power Plan and thank the 11 

### EPA for another common sense regulation to 12 

### address a pressing concern for -- for human 13 

### health and economic well being, and also applaud 14 

### most elements of the -- of what we're here today, 15 

### the -- the Model Rule and the Proposed Federal 16 

### Plan, but I will get into some specifics on -- on 17 

### how that can be improved to assure that you 18 

### maximize pollution reductions. 19

### The EPA should finalize a mass-based 20 

### approach as the single approach for a Federal 21 

### Plan and such federal plans should be linked to 2287

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### the maximum extent possible to approve state 1 

### plans subject to EPA designated tracking systems. 2 

### The proposed Reliability Safety Valve, 3 

### while laudable is unnecessary given a pre4 

### existing reliability assurance mechanisms via 5 

### FERC's planning processes, including or 1,000 ISO 6 

### -- pre-existing ISO reliability planning, NERC 7 

### planning mechanisms, and perhaps most 8 

### importantly, the inherent flexibility of the 9 

### Clean Power Plan rule itself and mass-based plans 10 

### generally. 11

### On the question of ERC eligibility, the 12 

### EPA should not include biomass and should include 13 

### distributed generation and EE measure subject to 14


### robust EM and V. 15

### The EPA's matching ERCs for low income 16 

### energy efficiency programs should have a special 17 

### set aside for low income, multifamily housing 18 

### programs due to the high deliverability 19 

### of EE savings there as well as ability to assist 20 

### low income communities. 21

### On the mass-based side the EPA should 2288

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### auction all allowances. Barring that, the EPA 1 

### should distribute allowances to load-serving 2 

### entities based on load served, load percentage 3 

### served or percentage load served so that 4 

### allowance values can ultimately go back to 5 

### electric consumers. 6 

### If the EPA allocates to generators, the 7 

### EPA should not allocate based on historic 8 

### emissions but rather, based on generation as 9 

### proposed. 10

### As for set asides to address leakage, the 11 

### proposed set aside for zero generating resources 12 

### is not large enough to address leakage, and at a 13 

### minimum should be doubled in size as you invited 14 

### comment upon. Set asides should also be 15 

### distributed to demand side energy efficiency 16 

### measures also subject to EM and V requirements. 17

### That concludes my suggestions for 18 

### improving the Federal Plan and the state measures 19 

### approach, but I'll conclude with a statement that 20 

### I do support your efforts and applaud you. Thank 21


### you. 2289

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### MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much. Thank 1 

### you for the support and appreciate the specific 2 

### recommendations as well. Any questions? 3 

### MS. STRINE: I do. Could you also state 4 

### who you are representing today? 5


### MR. SHEPHERD: Natural Resources Defense 6 

### Council. 7 

### MS. STRINE: Okay. Thank you. 8


### MS. JONES: That's what I wanted to know. 9


### Thanks. 10

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you. 11

### Barbara Weinstein, please. 12

### MS. WEINSTEIN: Thank you. Good morning. 13 

### I'm Barbara Weinstein, the Director of the 14 

### Commission on Social Action of Reformed Judaism 15 

### and the Associate Director of the Religious 16 

### Action Center of Reformed Judaism. 17

### My name is spelled B-A-R-B-A-R-A, 18


### W-E-I-N-S-T-E-I-N. 19


### We advocate on behalf of the reformed 20 

### Jewish movements, 900 congregations, 1.5 million 21 

### congregants, and 2,000 rabbis across North 2290

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### America. 1 

### And I appreciate the opportunity to speak 2 

### today in support of the Clean Power Plan, Federal 3 

### Implementation Plan. This proposal reflects our 4 

### nation's commitment to combating climate change 5 

### and ensuring the well being of the most 6 

### vulnerable populations at home and around the 7


### world. 8 

### Our reformed Jewish values teach us to be 9 

### stewards of the earth for the benefit of those 10 

### with whom we share the planet today but also for 11 

### future generations. We're inspired by Biblical 12 

### commentary that teaches us God says to Adam, see 13 

### to it that you do not spoil or destroy my world, 14 

### for if you do, there will be no one to repair it 15 

### after you. 16

### Yet we also know that the impacts of 17 

### climate change are real and visible today. 18 

### Nearly half of Americans live in areas where the 19 

### air is unsafe to breathe, extreme weather events 20 

### like those we saw recently in South Carolina, and 21 

### Texas, and Oklahoma, droughts in California 2291

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### highlight the wide range of challenges faced by 1 

### Americans due to climate change; and similar 2 

### challenges affect communities worldwide. No 3 

### person, no part of our plant is immune, but we 4 

### know that at particular risk our members are 5 

### vulnerable populations -- the young, the old, the 6


### poor. 7 

### Their struggle brings to mind the words 8 

### of Leviticus 19: Do not stand idly by while your 9 

### neighbor bleeds. And each of us has a 10 

### responsibility to act personally to address this 11 

### climate crisis. 12

### Our reformed Jewish movements support for 13 

### the EPA's proposed Federal Implementation Plan to 14 

### reduce carbon pollution from existing power 15 

### plants is a reflection of that responsibility. 16

### As you know, 2014 was the hottest year on 17 

### record, and predictions for 2015 show that this 18 

### year is also on track to break that record. And 19 

### carbon emissions are the main cause of increased 20 

### global temperatures. So it's imperative for the 21 

### U.S.'s status as a global leader that significant 2292

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### action is taken to cut our carbon emissions, 40 1 

### percent of which come from power plants. 2 

### The CPP is a vital step in that 3 

### direction, though the U.S. is home to only 5 4 

### percent of the world's population, we produce 5 

### about 19 percent of the world's greenhouse gas 6 

### emissions. And the plan is also an opportunity 7 

### to address the fact that the burdens of climate 8 

### change fall disproportionately on marginalized 9 

### communities. 10

### So the Federal Implementation Plan should 11 

### promote equity in the allocation of limited 12 

### resources and make long-term investments into 13 

### those communities. The plan should also promote 14 

### sustainability and stewardship, providing 15 

### incentives for clean renewable energy and 16 

### minimizing the harmful impacts of carbon 17 

### emissions on land, water, and air. 18

### The Federal Implementation Plan can serve 19 

### not just as a fallback but as a model for states, 20 

### spurring them to achieve the most equitable and 21 

### sustainable plan as possible. 2293

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### As we approach the threshold of the 1 

### International Climate Negotiations in Paris, the 2 

### U.S. has to assert itself as a leader in 3 

### international efforts to reduce global climate 4 

### change with strong plans and a commitment to 5 

### reduce our own greenhouse gas emissions and 6 

### assist vulnerable populations. 7 

### Implementing the Proposed Federal 8 

### Limitation on Carbon Emissions will target a key 9 

### source of carbon pollution and help address the 10 

### impacts of that pollution. It also demonstrates 11 

### our country's commitment to the health and well 12 

### being of our planet and all its inhabitants. We 13 

### applaud the EPA and President Obama's leadership 14 

### in strengthening and enforcing limits on harmful 15 

### carbon emissions and call on you today to 16 

### implement an equitable and sustainable Federal 17 

### Plan. Thank you. 18

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much. Thank 19 

### you for your supportive comments. Any clarifying 20 

### questions? No. Thank you both for your 21 

### comments. Appreciate your time today. 2294

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### MR. SHEPHERD: Thank you. 1 

### MS. WEINSTEIN: Thank you. 2


### MR. GUNNING: Let me now ask Ruth Ann 3 

### Norton and Jean Stewart -- please come up. 4 

### Good morning to both of you. 5 

### MS. NORTON: Good morning. 6 

### MS. STEWART: Good morning. 7 

### MR. GUNNING: So, let's please start. 8 

### Ruth Ann Norton, can you please begin? 9 

### MS. NORTON: Okay. Sure. I'm Ruth Ann 10 

### Norton. I am the President and CEO of the Green 11 

### and Healthy Homes Initiative. 12

### I am supposed to spell my name. R-U-T-H; 13 

### second word is capital A-N-N; last name Norton, 14


### N-O-R-T-O-N. 15

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you. 16

### MS. NORTON: Okay. And I'm here to talk 17 

### about the health measures and the health impacts 18 

### of the Clean Power Plan and how we can drive 19 

### investments in energy efficiency to address a 20 

### dual crisis of affordable housing and health 21 

### housing. 2295

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### By removing carbon pollution and its 1 

### associated harmful gases, the Clean Power Plan 2 

### will produce substantial health benefits. The 3 

### CPP is projected to protect public health by 4 

### avoiding 3,600 premature deaths, 1,700 heart 5 

### attacks, 90,000 asthma attacks, and 3,000 [sic] 6 

### missed work days each year, not to mention that 7 

### asthma is the number one reason that children in 8 

### the United States miss school. 9 

### The health benefits of the CPP are 10 

### estimated to be approximately $34 billion, and I 11 

### would direct you to work done by Oak Ridge 12 

### National Labs on energy efficiency in housing 13 

### recently released. These reported benefits are 14 

### primarily associated with the reduction of carbon 15 

### emissions, but the benefits go beyond this. 16 

### Through the Clean Energy Incentive Program, CPP 17 

### encourages states to pursue energy efficiency 18 

### measures that benefit in residential sector and 19 

### -- benefit the residential sector in low income 20 

### communities. 21

### As a result, energy efficiency 2296

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### investments, especially in low income communities 1 

### has the potential to produce broader non-energy 2 

### benefits for residents. It is -- it is cheap 3 

### money for high return. 4


### In the search for more affordable rental 5 

### housing, low income families commonly settle for 6 

### older housing units, although older housing has 7 

### lower rent costs, they are frequently in such 8 

### poor condition that they are extremely expensive 9 

### to heat, and, therefore, are still unaffordable, 10 

### driving people out of stabilized situations and 11 

### decreasing neighborhood stabilization. 12

### Many of the conditions that lead to the 13 

### home inefficiencies also expose residents to 14 

### environmental hazards that cause chronic and 15 

### serious negative health impacts. The evidence 16 

### shows that housing affordability and quality 17 

### influences residents' physical and mental -- 18


### mental health outcomes. 19

### Low income populations living in 20 

### unaffordable or poor quality housing frequently 21 

### report inadequate insulation, building envelope 2297

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### issues, and obsolete HVAC systems. Without 1 

### adequate indoor air conditioning, vulnerable and 2 

### susceptible individuals -- children and seniors 3 

### -- are at greater risk of exposure to extreme 4 

### heat and extreme cold, Number 2 and 3 on the 5 

### United States Department of Housing and Urban 6 

### Development's Health Risks in Housing. 7 

### Thermal heat stress is linked with 8 

### increased mortality rate among those with 9 

### existing cardiovascular disease and pulmonary 10 

### disease. Cardiovascular disease was a prominent 11 

### factor in the excess death experienced during the 12 

### 1995 Chicago heat wave. During the heat wave 13 

### victims were also disproportionately poor, 14 

### elderly, and members of minority populations, 15 

### which is why it is key to urge states to do 16 

### energy efficiency in low income, multifamily 17 

### housing where 50 percent of America's poor 18 

### reside. 19

### Exposure to extreme cold has a similar 20 

### negative effect on cardiovascular disease and 21 

### mortality. Several cold episodes are associated 2298

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### with increased cardiovascular disease, emergency 1 

### department visits, and deaths for individuals 2 

### with existing heart and kidney issues. Evidence 3 

### also shows that extreme cold exposure is linked 4 

### increased and myocardial infarction -- heart 5 

### attacks -- and cardio -- cardiac arrest. 6 

### Poor quality housing is also susceptible 7 

### to the effects of humidity. Humidity, when 8 

### combined with inadequate air conditioning 9 

### encourages the mold growth in housing. Prenatal 10 

### and early childhood exposure to mold is a serious 11 

### risk factor for several respiratory illnesses, 12 

### including asthma. Asthma is the most chronic 13 

### condition among U.S. children, and unlike other 14 

### respiratory conditions, asthma incidents are 15 

### rising in the United States. 16

### Annually, asthma related symptoms caused 17 

### 14.2 million physician visits, 1.8 million 18 

### emergency department visits, and 439 19 

### hospitalizations all which are avoidable by 20 

### improving energy efficiency in housing. Higher 21 

### rates are observed among poor and racial ethnic 2299

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### minorities. 1 

### Energy efficiency interventions have the 2 

### potential to substantially reduce the health 3 

### effects associated with poor quality housing, 4 

### improved home insulation and HVAC systems that 5 

### maintain the thermal comfort of a home can 6 

### mitigate the effects of thermal stress. HVAC 7 

### usage has been shown to significantly reduce heat 8 

### exacerbated cardiovascular disease, ischemic 9 

### heart disease, heat stroke, diabetes, and acute 10 

### renal failure. Even when controlling for socio11 

### economic factors, reducing domestic heat seepage 12 

### through energy efficiency retrofits. For 13 

### example, wall and attic insulation is the most 14 

### effective means to reduce cold-related mortality 15 

### and morbidity. Energy efficiency measures that 16 

### control the indoor air climate can also reduce 17 

### growth and proliferation on environmental 18 

### conditions that contribute to asthma morbidity. 19

### Controlling indoor humidity inhibits mold 20 

### growth with a turn in reduced asthma symptoms 21 

### days. 22100

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### In short, we have the opportunity to 1 

### improve housing, and improve health, and save on 2 

### health, and economic, and social costs. Thank 3


### you. 4 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for those 5 

### comments. Any clarifying questions? Thank you 6 

### again. 7 

### Jean Stewart, please. 8 

### MS. STEWART: Yes. Hi. My name's Jean 9 

### Stewart, and that's J-E-A-N, S-T-E-W-A-R-T. And 10 

### I'm basically a private citizen, deeply concerned 11 

### about climate change as I recently learned on a 12 

### trip to Glacier National Park, which is a real 13 

### canary in the coal mine as far as climate change 14 

### is concerned, I learned that it's actually more 15 

### appropriate to talk about the climate 16 

### destabilization even catastrophic climate 17 

### destabilization. Also affecting that area out 18 

### there were enormous wildfires fed by drought and 19 

### climate change. 20

### As -- also, a person of faith like Ms. 21 

### Weinstein, I believe -- you know, my personal 22101

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### belief is that God loaned us this planet as -- to 1 

### exercise stewardship, not to trash it for own 2 

### immediate benefits. And I want to strongly 3 

### support the CPP and congratulate EPA and 4 

### President Obama for putting this forward. You're 5 

### getting -- I'm sure already -- a lot of pushback 6 

### from energy industries and so forth. And I just 7 

### hope there are lots more people like me -- I'm 8 

### also a member of the Sierra Club -- supporting 9 

### you, the EPA, and the President on the CPP. 10

### While it bring some higher energy costs 11 

### in the short run, in the long run, or even also 12 

### in the short run, I think it will bring great 13 

### cost savings in terms of better health, in terms 14 

### of, hopefully, slowing down climate change and 15 

### climate instability. 16

### The costs involved in dealing with the 17 

### natural disasters that are fed by climate change 18 

### are significant. We already see mass immigration 19 

### and mass migrations caused by war but in part by 20 

### climate, and that will only get worse. And, of 21 

### course, that costs a lot, too. 22102

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### And I would also like to point out how 1 

### glad I am of the timing of this proposal because 2 

### it's leading up to the Paris Conference, and it 3 

### shows that this country which has always been 4 

### kind of the leader and producing CO2

### emissions 5 

### into the atmosphere that we are actually willing 6 

### to take concrete steps to reverse that and to 7 

### tackle climate change. And I think this can only 8 

### help in getting cooperation from the rest of the 9 

### world. Thank you. 10

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for your 11 

### supportive comments. We appreciate it. And 12 

### thank you both for coming in this morning. 13

### Let me now ask the next two speakers to 14 

### approach the table. We have Samantha Ahdoot and 15


### Stefan Koester. 16

### Good morning to both of you. Let's start 17 

### with you, Samantha, if we can, please? 18

### MS. AHDOOT: Good morning. My name is 19 

### Dr. Samantha Ahdoot. And that's A-H as in Harry, 20 

### D as in David, O-O-T as in Tom. I'm used to 21 

### saying that. 22103

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### Good morning. I am a practicing 1 

### pediatrician in Alexandria, Virginia, a Fellow of 2 

### the American Academy of Pediatrics, and a member 3 

### of the AP's Council on Environmental Health 4 

### Executive Committee. In addition, I authored the 5 

### AAP's October 2015 Policy Statement and Technical 6 

### Report on Global Climate Change and Child Health 7 

### which updated and reaffirmed our commitment to 8 

### addressing climate change to protect the health 9 

### of children. 10

### I'm speaking here on behalf of the AAP, a 11 

### non-profit professional organization of 64,000 12 

### primary care pediatricians, pediatric medical 13 

### subspecialists, and pediatric surgical 14 

### specialists dedicated to the health, safety, and 15 

### well being of infants, children, adolescents, and 16 

### young adults. 17

### And I'm here to express the AAP's ongoing 18 

### support of the EPA's efforts to reduce carbon 19 

### pollution from existing power plants and to 20 

### highlight our strong support for the effective 21 

### implementation of the Clean Power Plan as a 22104

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### policy to improve child health. 1 

### Children are not little adults. They 2 

### have unique physiologic, behavioral, and 3 

### developmental differences that amplify their 4 

### exposure to environmental contaminants. Children 5 

### breathe faster than adults. They spend more time 6 

### outside, and they have higher levels of physical 7 

### activity. All of this contributes to their 8 

### disproportionate exposure to environmental 9 

### contaminants. 10

### Additionally, as children grow and 11 

### mature, their bodies can be particularly 12 

### vulnerable to environmental exposures during 13 

### specific developmental windows of vulnerability. 14

### Children disproportionately bear the 15 

### burden of the negative health effects of climate 16 

### change. According to the World Health 17 

### Organization, greater than 80 percent of the 18 

### current burden of disease due to the changing 19 

### climate is in children under the age of five 20 

### years old. 21

### Climate change is having broad -- broad- 22105

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### ranging health effects that are especially 1 

### detrimental to vulnerable populations, including 2 

### children. And these include weather disasters, 3 

### increased incidents in Poleward migration of 4 

### vector-borne diseases, increases in allergic and 5 

### asthmatic disease, food and water insecurity, and 6 

### increased heat-related illness. 7 

### Given our current knowledge of the child 8 

### health effects of climate change, a failure to 9 

### take prompt substantive action would be an act of 10 

### injustice to all children. 11

### Power plants, as you know, contribute 12 

### approximately one-third of all U.S. greenhouse 13 

### gas pollution, serving as a leading contributor 14 

### to climate change. Reducing the carbon emissions 15 

### of existing coal fired power plants represents a 16 

### major step forward towards addressing a key 17 

### component of climate change in the United States 18 

### and stemming the tide of climate change and its 19 

### myriad attendant negative health effects. 20

### Given the significant health effects and 21 

### the major opportunity to affect change through a 22106

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### focus on cleaner energy production, the AAP 1 

### strongly supports the Clean Power Plan. When 2 

### fully implemented in 2030, the Clean Power Plan 3 

### would result in 3,600 fewer premature deaths and 4 

### tens of thousands fewer asthma attacks, reducing 5 

### the need for child hospitalization as well as 6 

### missed school, and for parents, missed work. 7


### In the near term there are also 8 

### significant co-benefits that have immediate 9 

### effects on child health such as reduction of 10 

### other pollutant emissions and secondary harmful 11 

### ozone emissions. 12

### So, the AAP applauds the EPA for 13 

### considering the unique vulnerabilities of 14 

### children in its development and implementation of 15 

### the Clean Power Plan. The AAP urges the EPA to 16 

### continue working to implement the strongest 17 

### possible carbon pollution standards for existing 18 

### power plants to ensure that the rule provides the 19 

### optimal possible child health benefit. 20

### Thank you for your time and for having me 21 

### today to provide comments on this important 22107

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### policy to protect the health of children. Thank 1


### you. 2 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you very much for 3 

### your support and for your comments and bringing 4 

### the children's health issue to the -- to the 5 

### conversation. I appreciate that. 6 

### Any clarifying questions? No. Thank you 7 

### again. 8


### Stefan? 9 

### MR. KOESTER: Hi, Stefan Koester, 10 

### S-T-E-F-A-N, K-O-E-S-T-E-R. 11

### I am here today representing the Alliance 12 

### for Industrial Efficiency which is a diverse 13 

### community with representatives from the business 14 

### environmental labor and contractor sectors. We 15 

### are committed to enhancing manufacturing 16 

### competitiveness, reducing emissions, and creating 17 

### jobs through the use of combined heat and power 18 

### and waste heat to power. 19

### I'm here today to address the role that 20 

### CHP and WHP can play in the Proposed Federal 21 

### Implementation Plan and the Clean Power Plan, 22108

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### generally. The Federal Implementation Plan that 1 

### strongly supports CHP, waste heat to power, and 2 

### industrial energy efficiency will serve as a 3 

### model that state plans can use to meet compliance 4 

### goals. 5 

### Industrial energy efficiency, which 6 

### includes combined heat and power and waste heat 7 

### to power reduces costs and increases 8 

### manufacturing competitiveness, operational 9 

### efficiency and productivity. This will help 10 

### companies maintain competitiveness when energy 11 

### supply and prices are volatile. 12

### The economic benefits of CHP are clear. 13 

### The cheapest energy is the energy that you don't 14 

### use. The industrial sector offers the most cost 15 

### effective energy savings. Nationally, industry 16 

### has a lower cost of saved energy than the 17 

### residential or commercial sectors. Energy cost 18 

### savings from industrial energy efficiency can be 19 

### translated into a competitive edge for businesses 20 

### benefitting the overall economy for states and 21 

### the nation at large, and the host company's 22109

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### bottom line. 1 

### Industrial energy efficiency projects 2 

### like insulation and lighting improvements lower 3 

### electricity demand in the industrial sector. CHP 4 

### and WHP displace the need for central power 5 

### generation. State scan also leverage millions of 6 

### dollars in private investment for all of these 7 

### improvements at industrial facilities. These 8 

### projects help avoid the need to build costly new 9 

### power plants at ratepayer expense. They extend 10 

### the life of existing utility generation, 11 

### distribution, and transmission resources, and 12 

### lower the cost of electricity for all consumers. 13

### Jobs can also be created in design, 14 

### construction, installation, and maintenance of 15 

### efficiency in equipment. If every state used 16 

### four common efficiency policies to meet the Clean 17 

### Power Plan targets, including energy efficiency 18 

### targets in building codes, CHP and WHP, and 19 

### appliance standards, we could create more than 20 

### 600,000 new jobs and save consumers more than $48 21 

### billion by 2030. 22110

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### I would like to address the role that CHP 1 

### and WHP can play in enhancing the reliability of 2 

### the electric sector. Industrial efficiency makes 3 

### our electric system more reliable by reducing 4 

### demand for large energy users. This alleviates 5 

### transmission and distribution, and grid 6 

### constraints. Moreover, CHP systems produce heat 7 

### and electricity at the point of use. This 8 

### reduces the demand for -- or the need, excuse me 9 

### -- for long-range transmission expansion. In 10 

### many cases they can operate independently of the 11 

### grid and keep providing electricity during power 12 

### outages. 13

### After Super Storm Sandy, for example, 14 

### more than 8 million people along the Eastern 15 

### Seaboard lost power. Hospitals, universities, 16 

### and manufacturing facilities with CHP were able 17 

### to keep the lights on. 18

### Potential deployment for these 19 

### technologies is large. Manufacturers have 20 

### already taken significant steps to reduce their 21 

### energy use and increase the productivity of their 22111

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### facilities. However, great potential remains. 1 

### In fact, a recent DOE study finds that there is a 2 

### potential to cost effectively reduce industrial 3 

### efficiency -- excuse me, industrial energy use by 4 

### more than 30 percent by 2025. According to DOE 5 

### and EPA the untapped national potential for 6 

### energy savings from CHP systems alone could 7 

### produce as much electricity as 250 power plants. 8 

### A Federal Plan should include industrial 9 

### efficiency and strong CHP and WHP standards. The 10 

### CPP provides states with flexibility to adopt the 11 

### most cost effective compliance options. 12 

### Nationwide the industrial sector provides the 13 

### lowest cost source of emissions reductions. By 14 

### creating and supporting efficient industrial 15 

### energy use and clean distributed generation in 16 

### the industrial sector, states can -- can reduce 17 

### their CPP compliance costs for all ratepayers. 18

### Industrial energy efficiency has a role 19 

### in either a rate or a mass-based plan. Under a 20 

### rate-based plan, states and utility programs that 21 

### support industrial efficiency reduced demand for 22112

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### generation from affected EGUs. That reduced 1 

### demand can be translated into emissions 2 

### reductions credited with ERCs and incorporated 3 

### into state plans. 4 

### Under a mass-based plan, revenues from 5 

### state auctions of emission allowances to owners 6 

### of affected EGUs can be used to underwrite the 7 

### cost of industrial efficiency investment, 8 

### including CHP and WHP. 9 

### In sum, industrial efficiency cuts 10 

### emissions, creates jobs, and lowers electricity 11 

### bills for all customers. EPA recognizes these 12 

### benefits and explicitly identifies it as a 13 

### compliance option. The opportunity for 14 

### reductions through industrial efficiency is 15 

### large, and a state should include industrial 16 

### efficiency in their compliance plans. 17

### Thank you for your time. 18

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for your 19 

### comments. I'm sorry, I didn't catch the 20 

### organizational affiliation. 21

### MR. KOESTER: The Alliance for Industrial 22113

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### Efficiency. 1 

### MR. GUNNING: Okay. Thank you. Thank 2 

### you both for your comments. We appreciate your 3 

### time today, and thank you for joining us this 4 

### morning. 5 

### I would now ask, please, Shelly Lee and 6 

### Kerena Taylor [sic] -- are you here? 7 

### Good morning to both of you. Shelly Lee, 8 

### please, we'll begin with you. 9 

### MS. LEE: Hi, my name's Shelly Lee. 10 

### That's S-H-E-L-L-Y, L-E-E. 11

### Thank you for this opportunity to offer 12 

### comments on the Proposed Federal Plan. I'm an 13 

### Intern for We Act for Environmental Justice, D.C. 14 

### base policy office. React is a northern 15 

### Manhattan, New York, community based organization 16 

### whose mission is to build healthy communities by 17 

### assuring that people of color and low income 18 

### participate meaningfully in the creation and 19 

### sound, fair environment, health, and protection 20 

### policies and practices. 21

### For the past 27 years we have worked to 22114

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### empower, educate, and engage our communities in 1 

### policy advocacy at a local, state, and federal 2 

### level. Since President Obama released his 3 

### Climate Action Plan in 2013, We Act has been 4 

### actively advocating that every program policy 5 

### make environmental justice a priority and an 6 

### integral part of the development and 7 

### implementation process. 8 

### The EPA has taken some steps in the right 9 

### direction and has taken great steps forward; 10 

### however, we still have major concerns with the 11 

### Final Rule and now the Federal Implementation 12 

### Plan and Model Rules that have been presented for 13


### comments. 14

### While we cannot address all of our 15 

### concerns in the allocated time period, I will 16 

### touch on two key considerations. First, the 17 

### completeness criteria for the submittal and 18 

### approval of state plans should require states to 19 

### conduct an environmental justice analysis and 20 

### evaluation. An EJ analysis is essentially the 21 

### process by which states will study how the 22115

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### development, implementation, and enforcement of 1 

### environmental law, regulation, and policies will 2 

### impact positively or negatively low income 3 

### community of color, Native Americans, and 4 

### indigenous people. 5 

### This process will help hold leadership 6 

### accountable to make better decisions that protect 7 

### everyone equally and provide governmental 8 

### agencies and other entities a systematic method 9 

### of assessing data and policy decisions. 10

### An EJ analysis should require states to 11 

### at least -- at the least pinpoint where emission 12 

### might increase, where targeted effort needs to be 13 

### made around energy efficiency and job creation, 14 

### where treating of allowances from market-based 15 

### mechanisms should be limited or bound. 16

### The completeness criteria for submittal 17 

### and approval of state plans currently does not 18 

### include the requirement for states to conduct the 19 

### environmental justice analysis, nor engagement 20 

### with over burdened and/or vulnerable communities. 21

### It should ensure no increase in 22116

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### electricity cost and the burden does not fall on 1 

### those that cannot afford it. Ensuring that 2 

### facilities that have installed pollution control 3 

### technology are in effect using the technology at 4 

### all times. Every analysis needs an evaluation. 5 

### As a part of FIP requirements states should 6 

### create a set of indicators like health, energy 7 

### use, cost of energy, climate vulnerability, and 8 

### cumulative risk that can be used to measure and 9 

### verify both positive and negative impact in 10 

### communities. 11

### This type of evaluation should happen at 12 

### some frequency, possibly at the interim 13 

### compliance period to make sure emission 14 

### reductions are curing and investments in clean 15 

### and renewable energy are occurring in the most 16 

### impacted areas. States must complete an 17 

### environmental justice analysis as part of the FIP 18 

### approval process. 19

### Second, we ask that the EPA in 20 

### coordination with the states strengthen workers' 21 

### protection and create a pathway for just 22117

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### transition. The EPA should strengthen workers' 1 

### protection and do more to support a just 2 

### transition. The EPA's Model Rules encourage but 3 

### do not require states to adopt similar policies. 4 

### We believe all states should be directed to meet 5 

### the same standard. In addition, we call on the 6 

### EPA to design the FIP and Model Rules in ways 7 

### that more directly support worker transition for 8 

### those affected by the shift away from coal. 9 

### For example, a portion of allowance from 10 

### retired coal plants should be auctioned or sold, 11 

### and the proceeds directed to a fund for 12 

### dislocated workers in their states. States must 13 

### make sure to strength workers' protection and 14 

### create a just transition. 15

### In conclusion, we hope EPA to strongly 16 

### request that states complete an environmental 17 

### justice analysis as part of their FIP approval 18 

### process and that states strengthen workers' 19 

### protection and create pathway for a just 20 

### transition. Thank you. 21

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you. Thank you for 22118

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### those specific recommendations as well. We 1 

### appreciate that. 2 

### Kerena Taylor? 3 

### MS. TAYLOE: Hi, thank you. My name is 4 

### Kerene Tayloe. 5 

### MR. GUNNING: Kerene, I'm sorry. 6 

### MS. TAYLOE Thank you. It's spelled 7 

### K-E-R-E-N as in Nancy, E; T-A-Y-L-O-E. 8 

### Thank you again for the opportunity to 9 

### share our comments in regards to the Federal 10 

### Implementation Plan of the Clean Power Plan. I 11 

### am the Federal Policy Associate for We Act for 12 

### Environmental Justice. As Shelly has stated, 13 

### it's a Northern Manhattan community-based 14 

### organization whose mission is to build -- build 15 

### healthy communities. 16

### Here, in Washington, D.C., we are also 17 

### advocating for environmental justice on a 18 

### national level by engaging with the EPA, other 19 

### agencies, and members of Congress. 20

### We are pleased to see the emphasis on 21 

### public engagement with people of color, 22119

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### indigenous and low income communities that have 1 

### historically been on the receiving end of the 2 

### negative impacts of climate change. 3 

### Upon further review of the Clean Power 4 

### Plan and the Federal Implementation Plan, and the 5 

### Model Rule, We Act believes that the following 6 

### considerations will strengthen the Clean Power 7


### Plan: 8 

### Firstly, We Act does not support either a 9 

### mass-based or rate-based approach. Because the 10 

### FIP and the Model Plan promote Cap and Trade as 11 

### the only option, we recommend that the FIP place 12 

### an equal amount of emphasis on other policies and 13 

### pathways to compliance through expanding 14 

### renewable energy, exploring renewable portfolio 15 

### standards, energy efficiency resource standards, 16 

### and net metering in order to lessen the potential 17 

### negative impact effects of state -- of states 18 

### adopting a mass-based or rate-based approach, it 19 

### should be required that states work directly with 20 

### the EPA to assess whether and where emissions 21 

### increases may result from plan implementation and 22120

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### mitigate adverse impacts, if any, in over 1 

### burdened communities. 2 

### State should also be required to create a 3 

### monitoring system to document baseline levels of 4 

### carbon dioxide emissions and toxic co-pollutants. 5 

### Specifically, in neighborhoods with multiple 6 

### regulated sources, Title 5, or other major and 7 

### minor permitted sources, or areas that are 8 

### identified in the highest percentile from the EPA 9 

### EJ Proximity Analysis. 10

### States should also be required to work 11 

### directly with the EPA to determine whether the 12 

### implementation of the Federal Plan and other air 13 

### quality rules are, in fact, reducing emissions 14 

### and improving air quality in all areas and/or 15 

### whether there are localized air quality impacts 16 

### that need to be addressed under other Clean Air 17 

### Act authorities. 18

### States should also be required to 19 

### disallow any type of trading allowance and 20 

### credits for being exchanged in any areas where 21 

### the air is already compromised. Again, states 22121

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### should also look to revise the mass-based FIP and 1 

### Model Rule to incorporate energy efficiency. 2 

### Secondly, We Act firmly believes that the 3 

### FIP proposal should not allow unsustainable and 4 

### unhealthy biomass and waste incineration to 5 

### qualify for credits or allowances. If state 6 

### implementation of the Clean Power Plan 7 

### incentivizes burning waste and wood alongside 8 

### coal and other fossil fuels, greenhouse gas 9 

### emissions will go up, and much-needed funds will 10 

### be taken from community climate incentives. 11 

### Burning waste releases dioxin, lead, mercury, and 12 

### other toxins that can cause asthma, cancer, and 13 

### other serious health problems. 14

### So, in conclusion, we are definitely 15 

### against a mass-based or a rate-based plan and 16 

### against a proposal that would encourage the 17 

### unsustainable and healthy -- unsustainable or 18 

### unhealthy biomass burning near these communities. 19

### We thank you again for the opportunity to 20 

### share our concern, and we hope that our 21 

### suggestions are considered. Thank you for your 22122

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### time. 1 

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you so much for your 2 

### concerns and for your suggestions as well. We 3 

### appreciate that. Thanks to both of you this 4 

### morning for coming to speak with us. 5 

### Any questions -- additional questions? 6 

### No? Okay. Thank you both. 7 

### MS. LEE: Thank you. 8 

### MS. TAYLOE: Thank you. 9 

### MR. GUNNING: I'd now like to ask Ethan 10 

### Handelman and Frank Swigonski to please approach 11


### the table. 12

### Good morning. 13

### MR. HANDELMAN: Good morning. 14

### MR. SWIGONSKI: Good morning. 15

### MR. GUNNING: Ethan, we'll start with 16


### you. 17


### MR. HANDELMAN: Sure. I'm Ethan 18 

### Handelman. That's E-T-H-A-N; last name is 19 

### H-A-N-D-E-L-M-A-N; and I'm the Vice-President for 20 

### Policy and Advocacy with the National Housing 21 

### Conference. We are the country's oldest housing 22123

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### advocacy organization with more than 80 years of 1 

### promoting safety and affordable housing for all 2 

### in America. 3 

### Our members -- who come from the public 4 

### sector and the private sector, for profit and 5 

### non-profit -- see the Clean Power Plan as an 6 

### opportunity to make affordable housing more 7 

### energy efficient, healthier for residents and 8 

### better for the environment. 9 

### The plan provides states the flexibility 10 

### to choose to invest in energy efficiency and 11 

### affordable housing as part of their overall 12 

### approach to reducing carbon emissions, and we 13 

### urge states to do so and EPA to maintain that 14 

### flexibility. 15

### Energy efficient housing makes people 16 

### healthier and housing more affordable. Energy 17 

### efficiency investments will lower household 18 

### energy bills which is especially valuable for low 19 

### and moderate income families. Lowering energy 20 

### costs also helps to preserve affordable housing 21 

### by reducing ongoing operating expenses, freeing 22124

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### up capital for property maintenance and 1 

### improvements. Improving energy efficiency in 2 

### affordable multiple family housing through things 3 

### like insulation, ceiling air leaks, and improving 4 

### HVAC systems also significantly improves indoor 5 

### air quality which can reduce residents' exposure 6 

### to asthma, allergens, and other contaminants, 7 

### thereby improving their health. 8 

### Energy efficiency is a proven way to 9 

### reduce emissions cost effectively. In other 10 

### words, it makes good business sense. A recent 11 

### study issued by Energy Efficiency for All 12 

### estimates that energy efficiency in multifamily 13 

### affordable housing could realistically cut the 14 

### sector's energy usage by as much as 26 percent 15 

### based on data from a sample of several states. 16

### States can look to examples such as 17 

### Massachusetts, Washington, and Minnesota where 18 

### energy savings achieve for multifamily ratepayer19 

### funded programs count towards states that entered 20 

### annual energy saving targets. There are many 21 

### proven state policies that can be used to promote 22125

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### energy efficiency in affordable housing. 1 

### Among them, incorporating new energy 2 

### efficiency requirements in the state's low income 3 

### housing tax credit qualified allocation plan or 4 

### strengthening existing requirements; developing 5 

### utility sponsored or state sponsored energy 6 

### efficiency programs aimed at affordable housing; 7 

### providing additional resources for energy 8 

### efficiency in state housing trust funds; creating 9 

### incentives to leverage private financing such as 10 

### grants, loan loss reserves, interest rate buy 11 

### downs, or other types of credit enhancements; 12 

### encouraging or empowering localities to adopt 13 

### density bonuses, expedited permitting, or other 14 

### incentives for creation of energy efficient 15 

### affordable housing; and using the state tax code 16 

### to incentivize energy efficiency improvements in 17 

### affordable housing. 18

### There are a few states that have already 19 

### proven that energy efficiency programs for 20 

### affordable housing can work. And I have just a 21 

### few examples. First, the Pennsylvania State 22126

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### Housing Finance Agency recently provided 1 

### financing for capital improvements that resulted 2 

### in a reduction in carbon dioxide equivalent 3 

### emissions of over 10,000 metric tons across 91 4 

### affordable multifamily properties. 5 

### Maryland's Department of Housing 6 

### Community Development offers a multifamily loan 7 

### program for energy efficiency investments that 8 

### specifically targets affordable rental 9 

### properties. 10

### In Chicago, Energy Savers is an energy 11 

### retrofit program created by CNT Energy and 12 

### Community Investment Corporation in Chicago 13 

### targeting existing mid to low income affordable 14 

### and subsidized properties in the Chicago area. 15 

### The program draws on a diverse mix of funding 16 

### sources including the Illinois utilities, state, 17 

### local, and federal governments, and foundation 18 

### funding to provide property owners with 19 

### comprehensive and cost effective energy retrofit 20 

### services. 21

### In Massachusetts the low income 22127

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### multifamily retrofit program provides public -- 1 

### public non-profit and for profit owners of low 2 

### income housing with a one-stop shop for cost 3 

### effective energy efficiency improvements. 4 

### Services include benchmarking tools, energy 5 

### assessments, technical assistance, and grant 6 

### funding for energy efficiency upgrades. And 7 

### that's funded by Massachusetts utilities. 8 

### The last example comes from New Jersey 9 

### where the Public Service Electric and Gas 10 

### Residential Multifamily program is the largest 11 

### multifamily program to incorporate on bill 12 

### financing. So it provides incentives to buy down 13 

### the up-front cost of whole building energy 14 

### efficiency projects. And owners pay the 15 

### remaining share of the project cost through their 16 

### utility bills with no interest over five years. 17

### Since its launch in 2010, the program has 18 

### enrolled more than 10,000 units in 277 buildings 19 

### with an additional 47 owners representing 9,000 20 

### units on the waiting list. 21

### In conclusion, we welcome EPA's Clean 22128

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### Power Plan and see it as an opportunity to 1 

### stimulate greater investment in energy efficient 2 

### affordable housing. There are affordable rental 3 

### properties in need of energy efficiency 4 

### improvements in every state, and they should be a 5 

### part of every state's plan. 6 

### States that craft their own 7 

### implementation plans will be in the best position 8 

### to promote energy efficient housing to cut 9 

### emissions, and we hope that the Federal 10 

### Implementation Plan will allow such investments 11


### as well. 12

### The additional incentives in the Clean 13 

### Energy Incentive Program that encourage 14 

### investment in low income communities are a 15 

### welcome complement to the plan, and we plan to 16 

### comment to guide EPA in implementing that. 17

### Thank you very much for your continued 18 

### efforts and for your attention to energy 19 

### efficiency and affordable housing. 20

### MR. GUNNING: Thank you. And thank you 21 

### for those specific recommendations and state 22129

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### examples. We appreciate that. 1


### Frank? 2 

### MR. SWIGONSKI: Good morning. I'll try 3 

### and be quick because I know it's almost lunch 4 

### time. Thank you for your attention and the 5 

### opportunity to comment today. 6 

### My name is Frank Swigonski, F-R-A-N-K, 7 

### S-W-I-G-O-N-S-K-I. I represent Advanced Energy 8 

### Economy, a trade association of advanced energy 9 

### companies. 10

### As a business association representing 11 

### the technologies and services that make the 12 

### energy we use more secure, clean, and affordable, 13 

### Advanced Energy Economy encompasses a wide array 14 

### of businesses providing products and services 15 

### that enable low cost, reliable compliance under 16


### the Clean Power Plan. 17

### These measures include wind, solar, hydro 18 

### power, geothermal, nuclear, combined heat and 19 

### power, transmission and distribution efficiency, 20 

### and end use energy efficiency. 21

### Using advanced energy technologies and 22130

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### services for compliance will improve reliability, 1 

### reduce costs, and give customers more energy 2 

### choices. These investments in a higher 3 

### performing electricity system will also grow 4 

### businesses, create jobs, and drive economic 5 

### growth. 6 

### A double E and its member companies see 7 

### the Clean Power Plan as an opportunity to 8 

### modernize the electric power system for the 21st 9 

### century. And EPA's Federal Plan will ensure that 10 

### his opportunity is realized in every state across 11 

### the country. 12

### We are supportive of the flexible 13 

### approach taken by EPA under both the rate-based 14 

### and the mass-based Federal Plan proposals and 15 

### Model Trading Rules. We view trading as the best 16 

### way to achieve EPA's targets; however, there are 17 

### several areas where these proposals can be 18 

### improved to allow affected units to take full 19 

### advantage of the benefits of advanced energy. 20

### EPA should finalize only one plan type, 21 

### mass or rate in every state in which it 22131

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### implements a Federal Plan. With certain changes 1 

### A double E believes that either plan type could 2 

### facilitate the use of advanced energy for 3 

### flexible and cost effective compliance. However, 4 

### in order to maximize the benefits of interstate 5 

### trading, the EPA should ensure that all Federal 6 

### Plan states are under a single plan type. 7


### EPA should ensure that all advanced 8 

### energy measures included in the Final Rule are 9 

### available to states under a Federal Plan. This 10 

### will keep compliance costs down, put all states 11 

### on an even playing field, and create a consistent 12 

### market for eligible compliance measures. 13

### As proposed, the rate-based Federal Plan 14 

### restricts emission rate credits -- ERCs -- 15 

### eligibility to on shore utility scale wind, 16 

### utility scale solar and photovoltaics, 17 

### concentrated solar power, geothermal power, 18 

### utility scale hydro, and new nuclear units or 19 

### capacity upgrades. The full suite of eligible 20 

### measures allowed in state plans should be 21 

### available under the Federal Plan, including 22132

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### energy efficiency, combined heat and power, 1 

### transmission and distribution efficiency, and 2 

### distributed generation. Including these measures 3 

### in the Federal Plan will keep costs down and 4 

### ensure an equitable and optimal outcome. This 5 

### will allow affected units to make use of the most 6 

### cost effective resources which are a no regrets 7 

### choice even without the CPP. 8 

### Under the mass-based Federal Plan, as 9 

### proposed, the allocation of allowances will limit 10 

### opportunities for advanced energy to compete in 11 

### the marketplace by providing windfall profits for 12 

### existing units but no meaningful incentives for 13 

### advanced energy. 14

### The renewable energy set aside gives a 15 

### very small portion of the total allowance applied 16 

### to a fast-growing resource. As renewable 17 

### capacity continues to ramp up, the market 18 

### incentive for this set aside will be further 19 

### diluted. 20

### The set asides ignore entire categories 21 

### of emission reduction measures, including some of 22133

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### the most cost effective options such as energy 1 

### efficiency, transmission and distribution 2 

### efficiencies, and combined heat and power. EPA 3 

### should include provisions for these measures to 4


### earn allowances under the Federal Plan to ensure 5 

### that these measures will contribute meaningfully 6 

### to compliance. 7 

### More generally, the proposed allocation 8 

### scheme is flawed in that it disincentivizes 9 

### advanced energy and could lead to windfall 10 

### profits for some existing resources. 11

### Energy efficiency and other behind-the12 

### meter sources provide verifiable emission 13 

### reductions that can be efficiently tracked and 14 

### traded. One of the major challenges raised by 15 

### EPA is administering a program with these 16 

### resources, but there are efforts already underway 17 

### that will address that challenge. 18

### A double E is supportive of the 19 

### development of the National Energy Efficiency 20 

### Registry, a streamlined tool to track energy 21 

### efficiency savings for CPP compliance. This 22134

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### effort is being led by officials in Tennessee in 1 

### conjunction with officials in Georgia, Michigan, 2 

### Minnesota, Oregon, and Pennsylvania along with 3 

### the National Association of State Energy 4 

### Officials, the Department of Energy, the Climate 5 

### Registry, E for the Future, and APX. 6 

### The Clean Energy Incentive Program is 7 

### intended to incentivize early action, but as 8 

### proposed could actually suppress demand for 9 

### emission-reducing investments between now and 10 

### 2020. Key changes are needed to ensure that the 11 

### program fulfills its goals. The dates should be 12 

### moved forward both for project eligibility and 13 

### for the start of credit generation. The current 14 

### dates push project eligibility back as far as 15 

### 2018 and do not allow projects to start 16 

### generating credits until 2020. These dates may 17 

### perversely lead utilities and project developers 18 

### to delay projects that would otherwise happen 19


### between now and 2020. 20

### In addition, the CEIP should be expanded 21 

### beyond energy efficiency and low income 22135

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### communities and wind and solar. By excluding 1 

### other advanced energy technologies and by 2 

### restricting energy efficiency to low income 3 

### communities, the CEIP, as proposed, misses an 4 

### opportunity to make early progress in these key 5 

### sectors. Thank you. 6


### MR. GUNNING: Thanks for those comments 7 

### and those suggestions. We appreciate it. Thank 8 

### you to both of you for your comments and for 9 

### being prompt. 10

### It brings us to the noon hour, to the 11 

### lunch hour, so we're going to take a break. We 12 

### are going to pause the hearing and resume 13 

### promptly at 1:00 o'clock. 14

### For all in attendance, thank you for 15 

### coming this morning. We appreciate it. We 16 

### appreciate the comments. We appreciate the input 17 

### and look forward to discussing more this 18 

### afternoon. Thank you. 19

### (Brief recess.) 20

21

22136

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### A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 1 

### MR. RUPP: All right. I think we are at 2 

### the top of the hour, so we'll go ahead and get 3 

### started today. 4 

### Good afternoon, everyone joining us. 5 

### Thank you for being here. 6 

### My name is Mark Rupp. I'm the Deputy 7 

### Associate Administrator here at EPA for the 8 

### Office of Intergovernmental Relations. 9 

### I'm joined here by Brian Fisher and Chris 10 

### Sherrhy, both with the Office of Air and 11 

### Radiation. 12

### Fossil fuel fired power plants are the 13 

### largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions 14 

### or carbon pollution accounting for 31 percent of 15 

### the U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. 16 

### Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 17 

### essential step in lessening the impacts of 18 

### climate change and producing a more certain 19 

### future for our environment, our health, and 20 

### future generations. 21

### We are here today to listen to your 22137

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### comments on the EPA's proposed Federal Plan and 1 

### Model Rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 2 

### existing power plants. 3 

### On October 23rd -- on October 23rd, 2015, 4 

### the Environmental Protection Agency published in 5 

### the Federal Register its Proposed Federal Plan to 6 

### implement emission guidelines for power plants 7 

### under Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. 8 

### The EPA's 111(d) rule, known as the Clean 9 

### Power Plan, takes effect on December 22nd, 2015, 10 

### and applies to affected power plants that began 11 

### construction on or before January 8th, 2014. 12

### The Federal Plan and Model Trading Rules 13 

### demonstrate a readily available path forward for 14 

### Clean Power Plan implementation and present 15 

### flexible, affordable, implementation options for 16


### states. 17

### The Model Rules provide a cost effective 18 

### pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 19 

### the EPA and make it easy for states and power 20 

### plants to use emissions trading. It does the 21 

### heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 22138

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### model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 1 

### implement the Federal Plan in any state that does 2 

### not submit an approvable plan. 3 

### This proposal includes four discreet 4 

### proposed actions. A rate-based federal plan for 5 

### each state with affected EGUs, a mass-based 6 

### federal plan for each state with affected EGUs, a 7 

### rate-based model trading rule for potential use 8 

### by any state, and a mass-based model trading rule 9 

### for potential use by any state. 10

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 11 

### the same levels of emissions performance as 12 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 13 

### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 14 

### those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 15 

### determines have failed to submit an approvable 16 

### 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 17 

### in the emission guidelines. 18

### In those states where a federal plan may 19 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 20 

### the same emission guidelines for affected power 21 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 22139

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### would not require additional control requirements 1 

### or impose additional costs. 2 

### Even where a federal plan is put in place 3 

### for a particular state, that state will still be 4 

### able to submit a plan which, if approved, will 5 

### allow the state and its sources to exit the 6 

### federal plan. States may take delegation of 7 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 8 

### order to become the primary implementers or 9 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 10 

### the implementation of a portion of a federal 11 

### plan. 12

### States operating under a federal plan may 13 

### adopt complimentary measures outside of that plan 14 

### to facilitate compliance and lower costs to 15 

### benefit -- to the benefit of power generators and 16


### to consumers. 17

### The proposal also includes a Model Rule 18 

### for those states that are developing their own 19 

### state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 20 

### the rate-based and mass-based model trading rules 21 

### in summer 2016. 22140

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### A state program that adheres to the model 1 

### trading rule provisions specified in this 2 

### rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 3 

### approvable. There are stand-alone portions of 4 

### the model trading rules such as the evaluation, 5 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 6 

### emission rate credits that would be approvable 7 

### even if a state adopted an approach that differs 8 

### in other respects from the model rule. 9 

### In addition, the proposal contains a 10 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 11 

### implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 12 

### affected EGUs located in Indian Country. CO2 13 

### emission performance rates for these facilities 14 

### were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 15

### Information on how the EPA will reach out 16 

### to communities throughout the comment period and 17 

### an overview of the actions that the EPA is taking 18 

### to ensure that vulnerable communities are not 19 

### disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking. 20

### If you would like any more information 21 

### about the proposed rule, there are fact sheets 22141

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### available where you checked in at the 1 

### registration desk. 2 

### And before we get started, I'd like to go 3 

### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 4 

### in order to make today's hearing run more 5 

### smoothly. 6 

### First, please be sure that if you have 7 

### checked in at the registration desk -- even if 8 

### you are not planning to speak today, it's 9 

### important to have you have signed in. And if you 10 

### did sign up to speak online or by phone but 11 

### haven't told us that you are here, please step 12 

### out to the registration desk and let the EPA 13 

### staff know that you have arrived. 14

### I'm going to be calling up speakers in 15 

### pairs. And when your name is called, please come 16 

### to the speaker's table right here at the front of 17 

### the room. When I call on you to speak, please 18 

### state your name and spell it for the court 19 

### reporter. Your comments will be transcribed and 20 

### included in the record of comments on the 21 

### proposed rule. 22142

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### Each speaker will have five minutes to 1 

### give comments. And we have a timer light to help 2 

### you know how much time you have left to speak. 3 

### When the light turns green to yellow, that means 4 

### you have one minute remaining. When it turns 5 

### red, that's a signal that you are at five minutes 6 

### and it's time to stop. 7 

### When you are finished speaking, please 8 

### remain at the table until the person next to you 9 

### has completed his or her testimony. We are here 10 

### to listen to you today; however, either of my 11 

### colleagues or myself may ask a question to 12 

### clarify any of your comments. 13

### After speakers leave the table, I'll call 14 

### up the next pair of speakers and so on. 15

### If you've brought a copy of written 16 

### testimony, please give that to the staff at the 17 

### registration desk before you leave today. We'll 18 

### put any written comments submitted today in the 19 

### official docket for the proposed rule. 20


### We also have comment cards at the 21 

### registration desk if you would like to submit 22143

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### additional written comments today. If you want 1 

### to comment in writing later, stop by the 2 

### materials table near the registration desk and 3 

### pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 4 

### written comments. Comments must be received by 5 

### January 21st, 2016. 6 

### Let me assure you that the EPA gives just 7 

### as much consideration to comments we receive in 8 

### writing as we do to comments we receive at public 9 

### hearings like the one. So if you have more 10 

### comments that you would like to provide the EPA, 11 

### please submit them by the comment period deadline 12 

### so that your comments can be reviewed. 13

### If you have any questions throughout the 14 

### course of this afternoon, please see the staff at 15 

### the registration desk, and someone will assist 16


### you. 17

### So, thank you again for taking the time 18 

### today to share your comments on the EPA's 19 

### proposal; and we will go ahead and get started. 20

### The first two folks that I would like to 21 

### call up, Paul Cicio? 22144

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### MR. CICIO: Cicio. 1 

### MR. RUPP: Cicio. Thank you, Paul. And 2 

### is Hao-Loh -- Hao-Li Loh? Hao-Li? Thank you 3 

### very much. 4 

### Mr. Cicio, whenever you're ready. 5 

### MR. CICIO: Paul Cicio, P-A-U-L, 6


### C-I-C-I-O. 7 

### My name is Paul Cicio, and I am the 8 

### President of the Industrial Energy Consumers of 9 

### America. It is a not-for-profit trade 10 

### association whose member companies are energy 11 

### intensive, and we are trade exposed which means 12 

### that relatively small changes to the price of 13 

### electricity can have significant and negative 14 

### impacts on our ability to compete with imported 15 

### products, thereby negatively impacting middle 16 

### class jobs. 17

### No other sector of the economy is 18 

### directly impacted this way. These industries 19 

### consume 73 percent of the entire manufacturing 20 

### sector's use of electricity and 26 percent of the 21 

### total U.S. electricity consumption. 22145

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### The EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan and 1 

### Federal Implementation Plan rule impacts us 2 

### uniquely. The manufacturing sector is important. 3 

### We contribute $2 trillion to the economy, 12 4 

### percent to GDP, 12 million direct jobs, and 5 

### another 5 million of indirect jobs. 6 

### IECA member companies are not adverse to 7 

### addressing climate change as long as these 8 

### policies do not impact our ability to compete. 9 

### Manufacturing is the only sector of the entire 10 

### U.S. economy whose greenhouse gas emissions are 11 

### below 1973 levels which illustrates that we are 12 

### doing our part to address climate change. 13 

### Nonetheless, we will pay for up to one third of 14 

### the cost of the Clean Power Plan implementation. 15

### A November 2015 study conducted by Newark 16 

### Consulting found that the EPA Clean Power Plan 17 

### would impose up to $292 billion in compliance 18 

### costs by 2030 which would be passed on to us, the 19 

### consumer, in the form of a nationwide annual 20 

### retail electricity rate increases in the range of 21 

### 11 to 14 percent per year. These are very high 22146

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### annual increases, and they stand in contrast to 1 

### historic electricity price changes. 2 

### The Energy Information Administration 3 

### from 2004 to 2014, the last 10 years, the average 4 

### annual electricity rate has averaged only a 3.7 5 

### percent increase per year. 6 

### U.S. manufacturing has continued to 7 

### struggle to compete with imported products, and 8 

### the cost of the Clean Power Plan and FIP will 9 

### make it even harder. 10

### The 2014 U.S. manufacturing trade deficit 11 

### stood at $524 billion, and 70 percent of that is 12 

### with one country -- China. 13

### While China's manufacturing jobs have 14 

### increased 31 percent since 2000, U.S. 15 

### manufacturing jobs have decreased by 21 percent. 16 

### How can the Obama Administration and the EPA 17 

### expect us to increase high paying middle class 18 

### jobs when we are burdened with increasing costs? 19

### China's manufacturing sector emits 324 20 

### percent more greenhouse gas emissions than U.S. 21 

### manufacturing. The take-away here is that if the 22147

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### goal is to reduce CO2

### emissions, we need to make 1 

### these products here in the United States and not 2 

### in places like China. And we have not heard any 3 

### solution from this administration or the EPA as 4 

### to a solution to this. 5 

### The FIP must contain measures to level 6 

### the playing field with our global competitors. 7 

### Offshore competitors who import products into the 8 

### United States must be held to the same 9 

### environmental standards and costs as we in the 10 

### domestic manufacturing sector or -- or the U.S. 11 

### economy and jobs will suffer while greenhouse gas 12 

### emissions increase. That is a lose-lose. 13

### The rule is controversial. Over 27 14 

### states have filed legal challenges to the Clean 15 

### Power Plan; 24 states have filed legal challenges 16 

### to the New Source Rule; 24 national trade 17 

### associations, 37 rural electric co-ops, 10 major 18 

### companies, and 3 labor unions all filed against 19


### the Clean Power Plan. 20

### We are offering the following comments 21 

### that are specific to the Federal Implementation 22148

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### Plan: Number one, the deadline for filing a SIP 1 

### should be one year from the release of the FIP to 2 

### give more states time to decide whether to alter 3 

### their SIP or go along with the FIP. 4 

### Number two, the EPA should not force 5 

### premature investments by the electric utilities 6 

### before all legal challenges are resolved. We 7 

### don't want a repeat of what happened with the 8


### MATS rule. 9 

### MR. RUPP: Mr. Cicio, we are at five 10 

### minutes. I'll -- if you want to finish your last 11 

### thought -- 12

### MR. CICIO: It just takes another 10 13


### seconds. 14

### Number three, ensured low cost 15 

### compliance. 16

### Number four, include a provision to avoid 17 

### industrial greenhouse gas leakage. 18

### And then, five, ensure that the FIP does 19 

### not impact electricity and natural gas 20 

### reliability. Thank you. 21

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 22149

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### MS. LOH: Good afternoon. My name is 1 

### Hao-Li Loh, H-A-O -- hyphen L-I -- last name 2 

### L-O-H. I'm a citizen. 3 

### When my son was eight years old, he and a 4 

### friend sat down and each drew a picture of the 5 

### earth. There was also a friendly sun wearing 6 

### glasses and a moon with a little figure planting 7 

### the U.S. flag. The continents weren't drawn to 8 

### scale or shape, but within the borders of each 9 

### one he had written his vision for the world. The 10 

### drawing was titled, The Almost Perfect Earth. 11 

### There was no littering, no violence, no racism, 12 

### no excluding, no guns, good education, peace not 13 

### war, the NASA Station, and a volcano. I was 14


### amazed. 15

### It inspired me to think what if every 16 

### person were to do this -- dare to envision our 17 

### dreams. What if I were to? I'm ready to dream, 18 

### and one of my dreams for the world is that we 19 

### figure out how to cap global warming 20 

### temperatures. 21

### I came here today from Philadelphia, 22150

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### Pennsylvania, because I think climate change is 1 

### the most urgent issue of our time. Everything 2 

### else, as vital as it is, will soon be moot if the 3 

### global temperature climbs more than 2 degrees 4 

### Celsius. I live in the third most-polluting 5 

### state in the nation. Pennsylvania's carbon 6 

### emissions rival Chile's. 7 

### But 58 percent of the -- of the state is 8 

### still forest. I came because I love those 9 

### forests. And although I understand the dilemma 10 

### of those whose livelihoods depend on coal and 11 

### oil, our continued existence on this planet seems 12 

### questionable these days. Earth will exist beyond 13 

### and despite us. The planet will endure. What it 14 

### will look like and what life continues to exist 15 

### and whether humans will survive is what concerns 16



### me. 17

### If I am lucky, I might live another few 18 

### decades, but I would like to know that the human 19 

### race and the sacred diversity of life that 20 

### surrounds us will continue to flourish. 21

### I'm appreciative for the opportunity to 22151

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### be here today and thankful to the EPA for 1 

### limiting carbon emissions from existing power 2 

### plants for the first time ever. I applaud the 3 

### goal of decreasing emissions by 32 percent by 4 

### 2030. As ambitious as it is, however, it isn't 5 

### enough. If, as the scientists say, a temperature 6 

### rise of 2 degrees Celsius is the danger point for 7 

### the world, then the U.S. will need a more 8 

### ambitious plan. 9 

### The ecologic health and economic reasons 10 

### to halt climate change are compelling. We have 11 

### already witnessed the impact of extreme weather 12 

### in this country and elsewhere. 13

### There's also a powerful moral imperative 14 

### for curbing our carbon emissions. As Pope 15 

### Francis states so eloquently in his encyclical, 16 

### Laudato Si, the climate is a common good 17 

### belonging to all and meant for all. Global 18 

### warming's impact is uneven and the most 19 

### vulnerable are those who live in poverty and 20 

### people of color here and all over the world. The 21 

### Clean Power Plan is a significant component of 22152

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### the United States overall plan. The intended 1 

### nationally determined contribution submitted to 2 

### the United Nations Climate Change Conference 3 

### which takes place in less than two weeks. 4 

### This is our opportunity to lead the world 5 

### in curbing climate change. We have the dubious 6 

### distinction of holding first place in terms of 7 

### cumulative emissions over history. One of the 8 

### costs of the American dream has been our enormous 9 

### contribution to total global gas emissions. 10

### Let us also be first in taking the most 11 

### stringent timely steps towards preventing the 12 

### rise of global temperature beyond two degrees. 13 

### Without our leadership and active participation, 14 

### the world cannot met critical global goals. 15

### These are exciting times. We're faced 16 

### with terrifying challenges, but we also finally 17 

### understand in the words of Christiana Figueres 18 

### the Executive Secretary of the UNFCC, [sic] that 19 

### nations are interlinked inextricably and that 20 

### what one does has an impact on the others. Our 21 

### efforts to implement a strong clean power plan as 22153

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### part of a national plan to decrease carbon 1 

### emissions will make international collaboration 2 

### possible and effective. 3 

### We have a precedent for this. There is 4 

### already an industry that excels at pulling 5 

### hundreds of creative and brilliant minds together 6 

### and funding to the tune of $250 million in order 7 

### to create elaborate, imaginary worlds where 8 

### dinosaurs walk again and humans fly. If 9 

### Hollywood can create miraculously beautiful 10 

### unreal worlds, surely the United States 11 

### government and leaders can pull together the best 12 

### minds of the world, amass funding, and garner 13 

### cooperation to preserve our miraculously 14 

### beautiful and real world, already the most 15 

### perfect Earth. 16

### An ambitious Clean Power Plan with a 17 

### rigorous timetable will allow us to lead the 18 

### world in the effort to prevent global collapse. 19

### Thanks for listening. 20

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Thanks 21 

### for traveling. Thank you two very much. 22154

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### I'd like to call up next Ellen Vaughan 1 

### and Keara Hoban-Weinstein. 2 

### Thank you two for being here. And just a 3 

### reminder to -- to watch the light here. When it 4 

### turns yellow, you know you've got one minute 5


### left. 6


### MS. HOBAN-WEINSTEIN: Good afternoon. 7


### MR. RUPP: Good afternoon. 8 

### MS. HOBAN-WEINSTEIN: My name is Keara 9 

### Hoban-Weinstein, K-E-A-R-A, Hoban, H-O-B as in 10 

### boy, A-N, hyphen Weinstein, W-E-I-N-S-T-E-I-N. 11

### Good afternoon. My name is Keara Hoban12 

### Weinstein. I am an ordinary citizen, and I am 13 

### retired, and I live with my husband in 14 

### Jenkintown, Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia. 15

### I have long been treated for extrinsic 16 

### asthma; however, in the past decade I have added 17 

### medications, especially in the heat of summer due 18 

### to poor air quality. In our circle of friends 19 

### several people with no allergy history are now 20 

### seeking treatment. 21

### And I once drove 12 minutes to work, but 22155

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### within five years the time increased to 20 1 

### minutes for the same route due to vehicle volume. 2 

### Experiencing this change in our 3 

### environment, I remain keenly alert to any sincere 4 

### steps by our federal and state governments to 5 

### address our unhealthy carbon polluted 6 

### environment. And now, with the Clean Power Plan 7 

### we have an historic step to reduce carbon 8 

### emissions from coal fired power plants by one9 

### third before 2030. 10


### The Clean Power Plan also enables states 11 

### to create and implement their own more efficient 12 

### and cost effective solutions to produce clean 13 

### power in Pennsylvania. And our electric company, 14 

### PACO [sic] now offers the Clean Energy Option. 15 

### And my husband and I have opted to switch to 16 

### Clean Energy Option which is licensed to get 17 

### energy from local solar and wind farms. 18

### As citizens taking some responsibility 19 

### for our climate, my husband and I have downsized 20 

### to smaller living quarters, about 600 square 21 

### feet. Of course, we only use CFL light bulbs. 22156

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### We share one car, and we use public 1 

### transportation for walking or to do food 2 

### shopping. 3 

### Our State Representative, Steve McCarter, 4 

### has co-sponsored a House Bill, HB-200, to 5 

### reinstate the Pennsylvania Sunshine Solar Program 6 

### to subsidize small businesses, non-profits, and 7 

### homeowners with clean solar energy. 8 

### At the federal level I congratulate the 9 

### Department of Environmental Protection for 10 

### providing ongoing public engagements to invite 11 

### and involve citizens in this challenge to slow 12 

### global warming and decrease carbon pollution. 13 

### The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is strongly 14 

### urged to become actively a part of the Clean 15 

### Power Plan with an implementable plan to increase 16 

### energy efficiency as well as increasing the use 17 

### of wind and solar power. 18

### Pennsylvania's carbon emission reduction 19 

### goals under the Clean Power Plan can be reached, 20 

### but a strongly supported state plan is necessary 21 

### to meaningfully achieve the health and economic 22157

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### benefits the citizens deserve. Therefore, 1 

### Pennsylvania needs to submit a final state plan 2 

### to the Environmental Protection Agency to show 3 

### full involvement in support of clean power by 4 

### September 6th, 2016. Only then can we begin to 5 

### implement solutions to decrease and eliminate 6 

### carbon pollution. 7 

### Thank you for your attention. 8 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 9 

### And just a note for folks in the 10 

### audience, on deck next will be Tyson Miller and 11 

### Barbara Gottlieb. 12

### Ms. Vaughan? 13

### MS. VAUGHAN: Thank you. Yes, Ellen 14 

### Vaughan, V as in victory, A-U-G-H-A-N. 15

### So, I am here today on behalf of the 16 

### Environmental and Energy Study Institute. It's a 17 

### small non-profit here in D.C., and we do 18 

### briefings and publications for policymakers and 19 

### for stakeholders. And we have a subscriber 20 

### network of about 10,000. We don’t lobby. We 21 

### certainly want to bring the facts and the science 22158

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### to the policymaking process. 1 

### I am -- first of all, thank you for this 2 

### opportunity. Thank you for having these 3 

### hearings. 4 

### We -- our mission, really, is to promote 5 

### sustainable energy solutions and sustainable 6 

### development in all sectors of the economy -- of 7 

### the U.S. economy. And to show examples of 8 

### renewable energy projects, energy efficiency 9 

### projects, sustainable buildings, transportation, 10 

### agricultural, forestry practices that really 11 

### support that triple bottom line -- people, 12 

### planet, and profits. 13

### We know that there are examples now of -- 14 

### of how to do this. So in terms of the Clean 15 

### Power Plan, just in general, EESI believes the 16 

### plan can move the U.S. in that direction; and we 17 

### applaud the EPA for -- for taking this action. 18

### There are lots of details to sort out, 19 

### and we will be submitting comments for the 20 

### record, and in particular on the Federal 21 

### Implementation Plan and Clean Energy Incentive 22159

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### Program. We think things like a uniform 1 

### definition of valuation, measurement, and 2 

### verification will be important. We want to see 3 

### -- we want clarification on the definition of low 4 

### income community and things like that; but we 5 

### will be studying that and submitting final 6 

### comments -- or submitting comments. 7 

### I did want to highlight one thing today 8 

### though. I focus on -- on one of the economic 9 

### sectors, and that is buildings. Each and every 10 

### state, as we know, has houses and buildings. The 11 

### building sector in the United States is 12 

### responsible for about -- or uses about 40 percent 13 

### of our energy, total energy in the U.S. and 14 

### accounts for about -- nearly 40 percent of 15 

### greenhouse gas emissions. 16

### The building sector alone uses more than 17 

### 70 percent of the electricity. So that's why 18 

### buildings are a critical piece of any kind of 19 

### solution to look at electric power usage. 20

### The bad -- the good news is that we know 21 

### -- we have the knowledge now. We have 22160

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### technologies. We have products to greatly reduce 1 

### energy use in buildings by up to 90 percent even 2 

### just by using good strategies for making the 3 

### envelope tight. Of course, we'd like to see 4 

### Energy Star products inside. So building really 5 

### can be the solution. They're a problem, but they 6 

### can be the solution for -- in terms of retrofit 7 

### and new buildings. Both are important. 8 

### For new buildings we could make sure that 9 

### we adopt -- that states adopt and enforce 10 

### building codes. And there are things -- there 11 

### are voluntary standards available. And, again, 12 

### examples that we can show of systems and 13 

### strategies for greatly reducing energies, also in 14 

### affordable housing. And the benefits are 15 

### endless, really. There are health benefits for 16 

### energy efficiency -- comfort. And in terms of 17 

### affordability you're greatly reducing the cost of 18 

### owning and operating that house or building. 19

### So thank you so much for this 20 

### opportunity. And again, EESI will -- is -- is 21 

### very supportive of this and will be submitting 22161

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### formal comments. Thank you. 1 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Thank 2 

### you both. 3 

### Barbara Gottlieb and Tyson Miller. 4


### And on deck are Seth Heald and Dr. 5 

### Jalonne White-Newsome. 6 

### Ms. Gottlieb. 7 

### MS. GOTTLIEB: Hi. My name is Barbara 8 

### Gottlieb. That's B-A-R-B-A-R-A, G-O-T-T-L-I-E-B. 9 

### In terms of my affiliation, I'm with Physicians 10 

### for Social Responsibility. 11

### So thank you for this opportunity to 12 

### comment on the Clean Power Plan. Again, I'm 13 

### Barbara Gottlieb, Director for Environment and 14 

### Health at Physicians for Social Responsibility, 15 

### PSR. We're a 501(c)(3) scientific and 16 

### educational organization with 21 chapters and 17 

### about 40,000 members and supporters across the 18 

### United States. 19

### PSR stands strongly behind the Clean 20 

### Power Plan, and, in fact, strongly opposed the 21 

### actions of Congress to block the plan and will 22162

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### support President Obama in vetoing the CRA. 1 

### That's because the CPP provides a springboard for 2 

### our nation to abandon 19th century coal fired 3 

### energy technology and move into a modern era of 4 

### energy that is clean and healthy. 5 

### Ending our reliance on coal means 6 

### reducing unnecessary death, disease, 7 

### debilitation, and human and financial costs. 8 

### That's because coal damages all the major organ 9 

### systems in the body and contributes to cancer, 10 

### stroke, heart disease, and chronic lower 11 

### respiratory disease which are four of the leading 12 

### causes of premature death in the United States. 13

### And these are just the coal benefits. 14 

### The most critical reason PSR supports the CPP is 15 

### because it will help slow climate change. Coal 16 

### fired power plants, as you know, are the largest 17 

### single source of carbon pollution in the U.S., 18 

### accelerating climate change and driving up world 19 

### average temperatures. NOAA just told us that 20


### last month was the world's warmest October on 21


### record ever. 22163

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### As a result of climate change we now face 1 

### increased frequency and intensity of storms, 2 

### dangerous floods in some places crippling 3 

### droughts in others, an increased risk of heat4 

### related infectious vector-borne and water-borne 5 

### diseases, and death. 6 

### Climate change, in other words, is a 7 

### health issue -- now. Already. In the near 8 

### future climate change threatens to make some 9 

### areas of Africa and the Middle East 10 

### uninhabitable. It will increase the number of 11 

### desperate refugees in the world, drive conflict 12 

### and destabilization. 13

### For the sake of health, security, and 14 

### survival we need to stop climate change. We need 15


### the Clean Power Plan. 16

### The best ways for states to implement the 17 

### Clean Power Plan is to choose energy efficiency 18 

### and renewable low carbon energy sources. It has 19 

### been estimated that implementing the plan through 20 

### increased use of renewables and energy efficiency 21 

### would save -- would avoid -- excuse me -- would 22164

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### avoid 3,500 premature deaths each year. That's 9 1 

### premature deaths avoided each day. A thousand 2 

### hospital admissions a year and 220 heart attacks 3 

### each year. 4 

### Energy efficiency should be the first 5 

### step in this process. Energy efficiency is all 6 

### about using technology and best practices to 7 

### produce the same or better levels of services 8 

### while using less energy. Very simply, it's about 9 

### reducing waste. As they say, the energy you 10 

### don't need to generate is the cheapest. And from 11 

### PSR's perspective I would add and the healthiest. 12

### PSR is very pleased that EPA has 13 

### introduced the Clean Energy Incentive Program 14 

### into the revised CPP to give bonus emission 15 

### credits to programs that increase energy 16 

### efficiency in under-served and under-represented 17 

### communities which bear a disproportionate health 18 

### burden from coal fired pollution. 19

### The heart of a modern energy system is 20 

### development of renewable energies like solar, 21 

### wind, and geothermal. As we replace coal with 22165

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### these clean low carbon energy sources, we help 1 

### purge the air of pollutants, and we increase our 2 

### chances of keeping climate change below the 3 

### tipping point, avoiding what some people are 4 

### calling climate chaos. 5 

### The same cannot be said of natural gas. 6 

### Natural gas is mostly methane, a greenhouse gas 7 

### that is 86 times more potent than carbon dioxide 8 

### over a 20-year time frame. And that's the time 9 

### frame that matters in terms of controlling 10 

### climate change. 11

### Methane leaks at alarming levels from the 12 

### wells and the infrastructure where it's 13 

### extracted, especially those that use hydraulic 14 

### fracturing or fracking. And along with methane, 15 

### those leaks also allow the escape of volatile 16 

### organic compounds, many of which are toxic or 17 

### carcinogenic. A shift from coal to natural gas 18 

### would be a terrible mistake for health and 19 

### especially for climate. 20

### Fortunately, a clean and healthy future 21 

### is available to us. The Clean Power Plan can 22166

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### propel us into a modern energy system based on 1 

### efficiency and clean renewable energy sources, 2 

### avoiding the use of natural gas and of nuclear 3 

### power, and providing good jobs and income in 4 

### American communities which are features that are 5 

### also essential for health. 6 

### Let's take that health protective clean 7 

### energy path. Thank you. 8 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 9 

### Tyson Miller? 10

### MR. MILLER: My name is Tyson Miller, 11 

### T-Y-S-O-N, Miller. I'm from Dogwood Alliance 12 

### from Ashville, North Carolina. I’m the Director 13 

### of Programs, and I really appreciate the 14 

### opportunity to -- to be here. I appreciate your 15 

### work on the CPP and the process that you're 16 

### undergoing to create transparency and gather 17 

### info. So, thank you. 18

### I'm here to express strong opposition to 19 

### forced base biomass being included as a suitable 20 

### compliance pathway in the Federal Implementation 21


### Plan for the CPP. 22167

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### The CPP has the ability to create a 1 

### lasting legacy of transformation, and it's 2 

### evident that the ideals of the CPP are grounded 3 

### in a moral obligation to citizens and future 4 

### generations; but the inclusion of biomass takes 5 

### us backwards and may actually undermine its 6 

### intended purpose. 7 

### We're just one of many groups 8 

### representing tens of millions of individuals that 9 

### have called on the EPA to exclude bio energy 10 

### altogether from the Clean Power Plan. 11

### In terms of emissions reductions, burning 12 

### wood and other forms of biomass in a power plant 13 

### produces about 3,000 pounds of CO2

### per megawatt 14 

### hour, an emissions rate that's approximately 50 15 

### percent higher than a coal fired power plant. 16 

### Accordingly, biomass combustion does not replace 17


### -- reduce CO2

### emissions and should not be 18 

### considered part of the best system of emissions 19 

### reduction, BSER, envisioned in the Clean Power 20


### Plan. 21

### Co-firing biomass with coal increases CO2 22168

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### emissions and decreases facility efficiency, 1 

### making even the coal burn less efficiently. This 2 

### is contrary to EPA's Building Block 1 for the CPP 3 

### which is to increase coal plant efficiency. 4 

### Thus, if the EPA allows bio energy as a 5 

### compliance under the FIP, the agency will be in 6 

### the peculiar position of claiming that biomass 7 

### reduces emissions when it's actually increasing 8 

### The 111(d) rule is supposed to reduce 9 

### emissions from the existing power sector, but co10 

### firing biomass will demonstrably increase the 11 

### heat rate, decrease facility efficiency, and thus 12 

### increase the tons of CO2

### emitted per megawatt 13


### hour. 14

### EPA is requiring that to be qualified, 15 

### biomass must be demonstrated as a method to 16 

### control increases of CO2

### levels in the atmosphere, 17 

### but the agency hasn't established required 18 

### parameters or methods for how states might 19 

### actively demonstrate this. 20

### And we're concerned that this ambiguity 21 

### will engender more states making it a priority to 22169

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### look to force based biomass given the perceived 1 

### relative ease in meeting the definition for it, 2 

### it might mean it would be qualified. 3 

### By enabling and promoting a forced 4 

### biomass as a compliance pathway, EPA is 5 

### potentially diverting continued momentum for 6 

### scientifically grounded and non-controversial 7 

### solutions such as wind, solar, geothermal, energy 8 

### efficiency, tidal, and a range of other pathways. 9 

### It is our hope that the Federal 10 

### Implementation Plan will contain the kinds of 11 

### incentives and clear guidance that will spur 12 

### continued technological innovations and 13 

### investments in these proven and less 14 

### controversial renewable energy pathways and bring 15 

### down the important costs of these technologies. 16

### Flawed policies can have lasting effects. 17 

### So, there's a case study that we're dealing with 18 

### in the southeast right now. The EU, in essence, 19 

### has said that energy from biomass is carbon 20 

### neutral. And what we've seen is growth from 21 

### about one million tons just a few years ago of 22170

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### wood pellets being exported from our region to 1 

### about 6 million this year and projections of 35 2 

### million by 2020 and 70 million in the coming 3 

### decades. So, it's -- it's problematic. 4 

### And it's being covered on the front pages 5 

### of the Washington Post and Daily Mail; and it's 6 

### controversial. And I think, you know, if a 7 

### state's going to look to biomass as a pathway, 8 

### it's only going to get more controversial and 9 

### take the -- the onus or the emphasis away from 10 

### all the good things that the CPP represents. 11

### Industry insists they're using logging 12 

### residual scraps and waste wood, yet it is 13 

### estimated that 75 percent of the feedstock used 14 

### to manufacture wood pellets in the southeast 15


### comes from round wood or whole trees. These 16 

### facilities cannot reach their desired output and 17 

### residuals -- with residuals and by-products and 18


### scraps. 19

### We followed logging trucks and -- and 20 

### have seen where the sourcing areas are. In many 21 

### cases it's the forested wetlands and bottom land 22171

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### hardwoods. These are inundated forests that are 1 

### kind of seasonally flooded. So they're kind of 2 

### low valued forests, but they're high value in 3 

### terms of ecological function and what they do for 4 

### communities in terms of storm water protection, 5 

### and water filtration and carbon sequestration. 6 

### So there's a range of communities that 7 

### are organizing -- we're working with five right 8 

### now to pass local moratoria. And, you know, 9 

### there's a lot of concern from the region. 10

### So, beyond bio diversity standing forests 11 

### remove carbon from the air, provide critical 12 

### flood control, and arrange other services, the 13 

### most -- and then they help us avoid the most 14 

### catastrophic affects of climate change and ensure 15 

### community resiliency. Forests represent our best 16 

### defense against climate change. Now is not the 17 

### time to open the flood gates for forests to be 18 

### used as fuel for electricity. Instead, we need 19 

### to accelerate efforts to protect our forests and 20 

### improve ecosystem health. 21

### We urge the EPA to hear the concerns of 22172

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### national, regional, and local organizations on 1 

### this issue by not building forest based bio 2 

### energy into the Federal Implementation Plan. 3 

### MR. RUPP: Great. Thank you very much. 4 

### Thank you both. 5 

### Seth Heald, Dr. Jalonne White-Newsome. 6 

### And then on deck Elizabeth Norcross and Julian 7 

### Mocine-McQueen. 8 

### MS. WHITE-NEWSOME: My name is Jalonne 9 

### White-Newsome. It's J-A-L-O-N-N-E; last name 10 

### White, W-H-I-T-E, hyphen, Newsome, N as in Nancy11 

### E-W-S-O-M as in Mickey-E. 12

### So, first of all, thanks for the 13 

### opportunity to be here and share some comments 14 

### with you regarding the Proposed FIP and Model 15


### Rules. 16

### I'm the Director of Federal Policy for We 17 

### Act for Environmental Justice, which is an EJ 18 

### organization that was started about 27 years ago 19 

### to make sure that low income communities and 20 

### communities of color have a voice particularly in 21 

### the policymaking processes at both -- really the 22173

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### local, state, and federal level. 1 

### I manage an office here in D.C., and a 2 

### lot of my time over the past couple years has 3 

### been to make sure that the Final Clean Power Plan 4 

### addresses a lot of issues that communities are 5 

### experiencing across this country, particularly 6 

### around making sure that whatever policies we put 7 

### in place are protective, really, to the health of 8 

### those that are, again, impacted more by climate 9 

### than other communities across the country. 10

### So what I'd like to share with you today 11 

### are just a couple of points -- and we'll provide 12 

### some more detailed comments about some concerns 13 

### we have with the proposed FIP and Model Rules, 14 

### particularly around the set asides, the 15 

### requirements, the criteria for completion, and 16 

### then the definition of low income. 17

### So, first, in terms of the set asides, we 18 

### think it's really important that, you know, when 19 

### you talk about the -- the opportunity for 20 

### allocations and ERCs, that they don't exacerbate 21 

### what the Clean Power Plan is trying to do, which 22174

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### is actually reduce emissions particularly in 1 

### communities that are overburdened. 2 

### Our concern with any type of cap and 3 

### trade or -- whether it's rate or mass-based is 4 

### that oftentimes this type of system can produce 5 

### hot spots and not really get at the reductions 6 

### that are needed in the overly burdened 7 

### communities. So, what we would like you to 8 

### consider is really putting some type of 9 

### restriction over the geography, the neighborhood 10 

### where those type of allowances or credits can be 11 

### used, particularly if you know there is a 12 

### particular community that is overburdened with 13 

### many regulated sources, making sure that they 14 

### can't trade out or get credit for not reducing 15 

### emissions from that source. So, really putting 16 

### some barriers around how those set asides are 17 

### used is one example. 18

### I think, also, when you talk about the 19 

### requirements, there is a list of criteria that 20 

### states have to meet once they turn in their plan, 21 

### whether they decide to do a SIP or be FIPed. 22175

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### And one of the criteria that we've been 1 

### asking for in the Final Rule is that an EJ 2 

### analysis is required. And what we mean by an EJ 3 

### analysis is that essentially building off of the 4 

### proximity analysis that the agency did in the 5 

### final rule, really making sure that whatever 6 

### compliance pathways that states decide to take, 7 

### you're looking at the positive and negative 8 

### ramifications of that decision. 9 

### And so, not only from an emissions 10 

### standpoint but in terms of job and just 11 

### transition, you know, health concerns. And so, 12 

### really just looking at the holistic picture 13 

### because oftentimes when solutions are put forth 14 

### and policies are put in place, you know, they can 15 

### sometimes be more harmful than helpful. So 16 

### we're asking that as a part of the required -- I 17 

### think it's called Completion Criteria that an EJ 18 

### analysis be a part of that as well as public 19 

### engagement, which I'm not sure -- I know it's in 20 

### the final rule, but I didn't really see it 21 

### spelled out explicitly in the FIP and the Model 22176

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### Rule. 1 

### The third piece that I would like to 2 

### bring up is just the definition of low income. 3 

### And, you know, it's -- I think it's important to 4 

### try and keep that in any way as broad as 5 

### possible. I think the whole purpose of -- of 6 

### kind of the Clean Energy Incentive Program is to, 7 

### again, target, you know, resources in the 8 

### communities that may -- really may have a 9 

### challenge in reaching and getting at the 10 

### renewable energy and the energy efficiency that's 11


### needed. 12


### So we want to make sure that that 13 

### definition is broad enough to actually capture 14 

### the folks that you're trying to help. But I 15 

### think it's also important to really look at some 16 

### of the definitions that are already out there 17 

### that are being used by other federal agencies so 18 

### you're not redundant or recreating the wheel. So 19 

### whether it's weatherization, those who receive 20 

### Social Security -- and we have, you know, some 21 

### more detailed possibilities; but I think keeping 22177

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### it broad, using what's out there and really 1 

### looking at some of the other indicators in terms 2 

### of health, you know, energy costs, and other 3 

### things that can kind of feed into that 4 

### definition. 5 

### And another quick point is that it's 6 

### important that when you're thinking about some of 7 

### the set asides and energy efficiency, that 8 

### oftentimes our communities aren't able to really 9 

### use those weatherization dollars because the 10 

### structures of the homes are just not in good 11 

### shape. They're not ready to be weatherized, so 12 

### if there is a way to incorporate some of that 13 

### consideration into the set aside, or, you know, 14 

### use -- I think that's important as well. 15

### So, with that, thank you for your time, 16 

### and I appreciate your open ears. 17

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Please. 18

### MR. HEALD: Thank you. Good afternoon. 19 

### My name is Seth Heald, H-E-A-L-D. 20

### Two years ago I retired after a 35-year 21 

### career as a lawyer and became a climate activist 22178

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### and entered graduate school in the Master of 1 

### Science and Energy Policy and Climate Program at 2 

### Johns Hopkins here in D.C. 3 

### I retired at a relatively young age. I 4 

### had been reading about climate change, and I had 5 

### come to realize that it's the greatest problem 6 

### human civilization has ever faced. I wanted to 7 

### do what I could to work on reducing carbon 8 

### dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions. 9 

### The situation is urgent, and our delay 10 

### and inaction in addressing climate change in the 11 

### past 25 years are disturbing. America has not 12 

### been alone in the delay and inaction, but we bear 13 

### a significant amount of responsibility, 14 

### especially because of our out-sized contribution 15 

### to the anthropogenic greenhouse gases that are 16 

### already in the atmosphere. 17

### This semester in my Master's program I am 18 

### writing a paper on Pope Francis' encyclical, 19 

### Laudato Si on care for our common home. I've 20 

### been studying it closely. I'm actually in the 21 

### middle of a paper. The first draft is due next 22179

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### week. 1 

### As the Pope makes clear in this historic 2 

### document -- I believe it's already historic. It 3 

### will come, I think -- become to be seen as truly 4 

### historic -- climate change is first and foremost 5 

### a moral issue. The world's greenhouse gas 6 

### emissions, particularly carbon dioxide, are 7 

### disrupting the climate now; and they will do so 8 

### far more in coming decades and centuries. 9 

### The Pope and others also make clear that 10 

### the world's poor will suffer the most, yet the 11 

### poor have done the least to cause this problem, 12 

### have benefitted little, if any, from the 13 

### accumulated emissions to date, and are least well 14 

### equipped to adapt to a change in climate. 15

### Make no mistake, people around the world, 16 

### including in this country, are and will be losing 17 

### their homes, their food security, their water 18 

### security, their livelihoods and in some cases 19 

### their lives because of our collective failure to 20 

### act on climate change. 21

### It's deeply disturbing that many of this 22180

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### country's political leaders, who ought to know 1 

### better, claim that climate change is somehow not 2 

### a moral issue. In the course of writing my 3 

### research paper I've learned of a concept known as 4 

### moral disengagement which analyzes and explains 5 

### how and why otherwise good people can distance 6 

### themselves from moral wrongs in order to ignore 7 

### those wrongs. 8


### Professor Albert Bandura of Stanford 9 

### University has written on this. He discusses how 10 

### moral disengagement causes many to avoid taking 11 

### personal and societal action on addressing 12 

### climate change. I cite -- I'll give you the 13 

### citation for his -- one of his articles on that 14 

### in my written comments. 15

### The antidote to moral disengagement -- 16 

### more disengagement from climate change is 17 

### engagement, to speak out and to act. That's what 18 

### Pope Francis has done so eloquently as have many 19 

### others. And that's why I'm here today, and 20 

### that's why I commend the EPA for taking the 21 

### action it's taken in issuing the Clean Power Plan 22181

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### -- the EPA and President Obama. 1 

### It's an important first step in the 2 

### necessary transition from a fossil fuel based, 3 

### high carbon economy to a clean carbon pollution4 

### free economy; but many more such steps will be 5 

### required -- and soon. 6 

### With respect to the Federal 7 

### Implementation Plan, the EPA should promptly 8 

### issue such a plan if a state refuses or fails to 9 

### issue a proper state implementation plan. 10

### The FIP should be designed to reduce 11 

### carbon dioxide emissions as much as possible, as 12 

### rapidly as possible. The FIP should ensure that 13 

### carbon dioxide pollution standards in the FIP 14 

### achieve or exceed the reductions promised in the 15 

### overall Clean Power Plan. This includes ensuring 16 

### that states address potential carbon dioxide 17 

### pollution from new power plants so as to achieve 18 

### overall electric sector emission reductions. 19

### Finally, the FIP should protect and 20 

### benefit low income vulnerable people who are 21 

### likely to suffer the most from climate impacts. 22182

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### And when I say benefit, there may be some 1 

### benefits from a FIP. There can be revenue 2 

### raised, and it's important that that be 3 

### distributed in a way that doesn't have it all go 4 

### to the people who least need it. 5 

### I thank the EPA and its hard-working 6 

### employees, and you three gentlemen for your hard 7 

### work and your skill in issuing the Clean Power 8


### Plan. 9 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 10

### Julian Mocine-McQueen and Elizabeth 11 

### Norcross. And then on deck David Karpay and 12


### James Chen. 13

### MR. MOCINE-MCQUEEN: Good afternoon. My 14 

### name is Julian Mocine-McQueen, J-U-L-I-A-N, last 15 

### name Mocine, M-O-C-I-N-E, hyphen, McQueen, M-C-Q16 

### U-E-E-N. Thank you all for being here today and 17 

### listening to all of us all day. 18

### I'm here with an organization called 19 

### Green For All, and Green For All is a national 20 

### organization based out of Oakland, California. 21 

### Our mission is to help to develop an inclusive 22183

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### green economy strong enough to lift people out of 1 

### poverty. 2 

### And so I'm here today to, first of all, 3


### thank the EPA for -- for the rule for the Clean 4 

### Power Plan, for really leading the charge in a 5 

### really big and bold way. And I'm also here to 6 

### implore the EPA to continue that leadership and 7 

### to really recognize the opportunity that we have 8 

### with the Clean Power Plan. 9 

### And so, at Green For All we really focus 10 

### our energies in low-income communities and 11 

### communities of color. We do that because those 12 

### communities too often are burdened with -- have 13 

### an undue burden that is placed on them when it 14 

### comes to pollution and the pollution that causes 15 

### climate change. 16

### We also see that globally, those same 17 

### communities are the ones that will feel the 18 

### effects and are already feeling the effects at an 19 

### undue rate; and it's not fair. And so, I think 20 

### the -- the Clean Power Plan will address bringing 21 

### down carbon, and that's exciting, and necessary, 22184

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### and critical. And I think there's also -- so we 1 

### know it will do that, but what I think is unclear 2 

### is -- is whether we can also have other benefits. 3 

### And that's really recognizing that the 4 

### same communities that have been burdened by 5 

### pollution and that will be burdened by the 6 

### effects of climate change have the opportunity to 7 

### benefit from how we address climate change. And 8 

### I think the plan can do that, and I think it's 9 

### critical that the Federal Plan that will be 10 

### looked at as a model and states will pull from 11 

### really leads the way there. 12

### And so, let's see. Oh, just to highlight 13 

### some -- when I talked about the undue burden, 68 14 

### percent of African Americans live within 30 miles 15 

### of a coal fired power plant. What that means is 16 

### one in six African American children develop 17 

### asthma as opposed to one I ten nationally. So 18 

### that's the kind of burdens that we're looking at. 19

### I think that the plan should -- should 20 

### look at addressing -- I think that the plan in 21 

### terms of it really being a way to invest and 22185

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### transform our economy and clean our economy 1 

### should be looking at ways by adopting policies 2 

### that make long-term investments in these 3 

### communities the priority and that it really looks 4 

### at how can you minimize the pain of 5 

### implementation, whether it's, you know, in terms 6 

### of prices may be rising -- how do we minimize 7 

### that pain that community is feeling and maximize 8 

### the gain so that these communities can really 9 

### gain. 10

### And I think that the plan should really 11 

### hold equity at its center as Jalonne just said, 12 

### really looking at how do you, you know, put an EJ 13 

### -- an environmental justice lens at everything 14 

### you look at and really make sure you're looking 15 

### at it through that lens and putting equity at the 16


### center. 17

### I think this is especially important when 18 

### we think about things like allocation of the -- 19 

### of the pollution allowances. Don't give those 20 

### away. Don't give those allowances away. I think 21 

### all of us have to pay when we put our trash, and 22186

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### I think the business is not villainizing any of 1 

### the businesses, but they should be no different, 2 

### you know, carbon pollution is waste, and they 3 

### should pay to put it out there. And so, if there 4 

### are allowances, then they should be paid for, and 5 

### then those allowances -- the money should be 6 

### invested in the communities most affected by 7


### that. 8 

### I would call your attention -- in terms 9 

### of a model, I would call your attention to what 10 

### California did. We have a cap and trade system. 11 

### I’m not advocating for any particular way, but 12 

### when we collect money from polluting industries, 13 

### so far we have -- there's a -- it's called 14 

### SB 535. It was attached to our cap and trade 15 

### policy. And SB 535 allocates 25 percent of all 16 

### the funds gathered to the communities most 17 

### affected. So that's environmental justice 18 

### communities, frontline communities, and low 19 

### income communities. 20

### In California to date it's -- we're not 21 

### even in the third year. It's already been over a 22187

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### billion dollars of investments in things like low 1 

### cost and no cost energy efficiency upgrades for 2 

### communities, things like free solar panels, and 3 

### things like low income housing near transit 4 

### centers, free bus passes for youths. These are 5 

### all investments that make a real change in 6 

### people's lives. 7 

### And so I want to encourage -- encourage 8 

### you to ensure that equity is at the center of 9 

### what you do, that you don't give away the 10 

### allowances and that we really see that Federal 11


### Plan as a model that all states can follow so 12 

### that we're not just bringing down carbon, but 13 

### we're bringing up opportunity and we're bringing 14 

### up prosperity. Thank you. 15

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 16

### MS. NORCROSS: Hi, I'm Elizabeth 17 

### Norcross, N-O-R-C-R-O-S-S. I direct the Center 18 

### for Spirituality and Nature. I'm the Board Chair 19 

### of the Regional Interfaith Power and Light. I'm 20 

### also a theologian, and I teach young pastors in 21 

### training at Wesley Seminary here in Washington. 22188

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### I come before you in enthusiastic 1


### endorsement of the Clean Power Plan endorsement 2 

### of the Clean Power Plan proposed rule. I join 3 

### thousands across the faith spectrum in doing so. 4 

### I just wanted to take my time today to 5 

### tell you about a class that I teach at Wesley 6 

### Seminary called Greening Your Congregation. At 7 

### the beginning of each semester I make a rather 8 

### bold statement to these young wide-eyed, young 9 

### pastors to be, and I tell them that this is the 10 

### most important class that they'll take at 11 

### Seminary. And I watch their reactions. You 12 

### know, these young people come to Wesley and other 13 

### seminaries hoping to make a difference in the 14 

### world, and they're skeptical that this class 15 

### about creation care is more important than 16 

### scripture, and theology, and ethics, but it is 17 

### because if the planet is unraveling, nothing else 18 

### will matter. 19

### This is the reality of these young 20 

### peoples' lives, these young pastors in training. 21 

### Many of these students will be pastors over the 22189

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### next 50 years. During that time the impacts of 1 

### climate change will show themselves and will 2 

### become more real and more dire. 3 

### One of my students might become a pastor 4 

### of a church in Hampton Roads which finds itself 5 

### disintegrating because of flood waters that are 6 

### rising in the area. Another might find herself 7 

### pastoring a congregation in Richmond with 8 

### increasing asthma rates. Yet another might find 9 

### himself pastoring a congregation on an island in 10 

### Chesapeake Bay, the island which is being 11 

### reclaimed by the Bay because of climate change. 12

### How will they comfort their parishioners? 13 

### How are they going to deal with the grief and the 14 

### guilt? How will they teach God's presence in the 15 

### midst of creation that's unraveling? 16

### We've seen pastors around the country and 17 

### around the globe this week deal with the impacts 18 

### of terror in Paris, and Beirut, and Iraq. We see 19 

### them comforting their congregations. How much 20 

### more difficult will it be for these pastors when 21 

### the full implications of climate change are 22190

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### revealed to us? 1 

### So in this class I give these pastor a 2 

### primer on climate change, and I give them no less 3 

### than four quizzes on it to make sure they get it. 4 

### That's how important it is. I watch as their 5 

### young eyes open to the dangers of the planet and 6 

### particularly to those whom our religion and many 7 

### others call out for special treatment -- the poor 8 

### and the marginalized. 9 

### And we talk in very specific terms about 10 

### what individuals and congregations can do, and we 11 

### give them very specific tasks and tools with 12 

### which to do that. This is important work, but 13 

### it's not enough. 14

### Bold, broad actions such as that outlined 15 

### in the President's proposed rule are essential to 16 

### meet these already existing individual efforts. 17 

### We've seen the implications of inaction. 18 

### Community displacement, health effects, major 19 

### storm events. It's past time to act. 20

### One of the Biblical stories that we talk 21 

### about in our class is the story of Jonah and the 22191

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### Whale that's familiar to many of you. When asked 1 

### by God to speak truth courageously to power, 2 

### Jonah did what many of us do. He tried to flee. 3 

### You might remember he tried to flee aboard a 4 

### boat. That didn't work so well for him. 5 

### I can imagine a present-day Jonah making 6 

### excuses for his inaction -- too expensive, not 7 

### that bad, it's -- the science is inconclusive. 8 

### We might remember what happened to Jonah 9 

### when he tried to flee on the boat. I ran -- 10 

### ironically, a major storm event erupted, and when 11 

### his shipmates concluded that it was Jonah's 12 

### defiance that caused the storm to erupt, they 13 

### threw him overboard which is how he ended up in 14 

### the belly of the whale in the first place. And 15 

### I'll let you draw your own conclusions about the 16 

### consequences that might await those 52 Senators 17 

### who voted to unravel the Clean Power Plan, but I 18 

### digress. 19

### The story of Jonah offers us some 20 

### guidance, however. When all seems bleak, when we 21 

### are in the belly of the whale with no visible way 22192

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### out, there's always hope. But we need to allow 1 

### God to propel us out of the belly of the whale, 2 

### as Jonah eventually did. 3 

### The Clean Power Plan is a good plan. It 4 

### will make significant difference in the lives of 5 

### these young students. Let's stop hiding and act. 6 

### Thank you. 7 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Thank 8


### you. 9 

### David Karpay and James Chen. And then on 10 

### deck Mary Martin and Susan Stillman. 11

### A reminder to those who may have just 12 

### come in in the last few minutes. The time clock 13 

### here next to Chris will turn yellow when you have 14 

### one minute and red when your five minutes is -- 15 

### is expired. 16


### Please. 17

### MR. KARPAY: My name is David Karpay, 18 

### D-A-V-I-D, K-A-R-P-A-Y. 19

### Thank you very much for holding these 20 

### hearings. I'm 26 years old. I've never known a 21 

### time when the EPA didn't exist. I'm very glad 22193

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### that it does. So thank you very much for your 1


### work. 2 

### My name is David Karpay. I live in 3 

### Philadelphia. I moved there after teaching 4 

### English overseas for three years in China, 5 

### Taiwan, and Spain. And the first two where I 6 

### felt the effects of living in very close 7 

### proximity to several coal fire power plants. 8 

### This country by far is definitely one of my 9 

### favorites out of all the ones that I've been to 10 

### for several reasons I'll get to. 11

### Currently I work as a lead generator for 12 

### Solar City which is an international solar power 13 

### and technology company. Before teaching overseas 14 

### I was an AmeriCorps Fellow in Baltimore where I 15 

### grew up working as a field organizer at Retrofit 16 

### Baltimore, a program under Civic Works, which is 17 

### a large non-profit that focuses on education, 18 

### skills development, and community service. 19

### As a field organizer at Retrofit 20 

### Baltimore I was essentially a lead generator for 21 

### contractors who did weatherization work; however, 22194

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### through Civic Works we made sure that those 1 

### contractors hired our trainees who were ex2 

### offenders that had been trained for 3 

### weatherization services. And for approximately 4 

### every five homes that me and my team could get 5 

### contacted to weatherize -- be weatherized, that 6 

### would be a salary for a year for someone who had 7 

### only just a few months earlier thought it would 8 

### be impossible to find employment. 9 

### So I support the Clean Power Plan and 10 

### action towards fighting climate change because of 11 

### the social and the economic benefits of tackling 12 

### an issue that affects at-risk communities the 13


### most. 14

### My work at Retrofit Baltimore had 15 

### noticeable and calculable benefits to the 16 

### homeowners who weatherize their homes. It 17 

### significantly lowered your energy costs and 18 

### improved comfort and livability of their homes; 19 

### but to the men and women who performed the work 20 

### on those houses, the benefits were literally 21 

### life-changing. There is a misconception that 22195

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### contractors' workers have criminal backgrounds, 1 

### but the truth is really anything but. To have a 2 

### criminal background is a sentence to under 3 

### employment and ultimately a round trip ticket 4 

### back to prison. 5 

### The green economy, through government and 6 

### private donor funded programs like Retrofit 7 

### Baltimore provides ex offenders and the under 8 

### employed a second chance at finding a job with 9 

### family sustaining wages. 10

### I graduated in 2011, and since then three 11 

### out of my four jobs have been in the green 12 

### economy. I currently work for Solar City, which 13 

### employs nearly 15,000 full-time employees across 14 

### 19 states and is currently both reducing 15 

### pollution from power generation and lowering 16 

### people's energy costs. But I'm not here to pitch 17 

### a solar residential power system, just the whole 18 

### solar industry itself. 19

### So, according to FERC, out of all new 20 

### power generation capacity brought online this 21 

### year to date were just about 16 percent came from 22196

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### photovoltaic solar; however, those statistics do 1 

### not include residential rooftop which for Solar 2 

### City alone accounted for hundreds of megawatts in 3 

### just last quarter. 4 

### Currently this growth has been fueled in 5 

### no -- in no small part by the 30 percent Federal 6 

### Investment tax credit which combined with 7 

### innovations and efficiency across the entire 8 

### value chain of delivering a PV system has lowered 9 

### installed costs by 75 percent from 2008. And in 10 

### that same time the number of jobs in the solar 11 

### industry has grown from roughly 20,000 to nearly 12 

### 210,000 by the end of this year which is a huge 13 

### growth. That's a lot of growth in a time when 14 

### the economy was shrinking, solar was booming. 15

### So when the credit is set to expire, so 16 

### the Solar Energy Industry Association, SEIA, 17 

### predicts that in a worst case scenario that could 18 

### be a loss of 100,000 jobs. However, with the 19 

### Clean Power Plan compliance could drive the solar 20 

### industry further as the growth of the industry 21 

### has shown, it is just that -- an industry. 22197

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### Solar power is already demonstrating its 1 

### potential to be a conventional source of 2 

### electricity, not just an alternative. And with 3 

### battery technologies becoming more affordable, 4 

### managing renewable production with grid demand 5 

### means that it's only a matter of time and policy 6 

### support before it powers our lives and helps us 7 

### to clean our air and our water. 8 

### Though solar still needs to grow before 9 

### that can happen, it is on course to do so. Since 10 

### 2009 668,000 jobs have been created. 11 

### Furthermore, last year SEIA announced an 12 

### initiative with First Lady Michelle Obama and 13 

### Vice-President Joe Biden's Joining Forces 14 

### initiative to hire 50,000 veterans within the 15 

### solar industry by 2020, and those are full-time 16 

### jobs with family-sustaining wages. 17

### Of course those jobs in the industry 18 

### could not exist the way they do without policies 19 

### that support and incentivize their growth. 20 

### Incentives and subsidies are necessary for the 21 

### viability of any burgeoning industry. They were 22198

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### what got America's fossil fuel industry off the 1 

### ground the last century and are what are getting 2 

### the renewal energy sector off the ground in this 3 

### one. And the CCP along with other actions 4 

### proposed recently and opportunities to grow the 5 

### industry and -- are opportunities to grow the 6 

### industry and give this country really a new 7 

### industrial revolution. 8 

### So I mentioned that this is my favorite 9 

### country so far because of opportunities like this 10 

### to speak and the CPP. So thank you very much for 11 

### my opportunity to speak. 12

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. Mr. Chen? 13

### MR. CHEN: My name is James Chen, 14 

### C-H-E-N. I live in Virginia. I would like to 15 

### thank you for the opportunity to present my 16


### comments here. 17

### I'm a research physicist by training and 18 

### by profession; and I'm not a climate scientist, 19 

### but I'm quite familiar with the physical 20 

### processes involved in CO2

### , methane, and so-called 21 

### greenhouse gases in terms of global climate. 22199

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### I'm here as a concerned citizen in strong 1 

### support of the proposed EPA Clean Power Plan. 2 

### And I have -- in my prepared statement I have a 3 

### paragraph describing why I think the plan is 4 

### good. It should be implemented in the strongest 5 

### way possible. But I'll just get to some points 6 

### that I like to talk about. 7 

### The historically rapid rise in the 8 

### average temperature around the globe is becoming 9 

### increasingly certain. The extensive analysis by 10 

### the Berkeley Earth's Surface Temperature Project 11 

### established by the prominent climate change 12 

### skeptic, Richard A. Muller, Professor of Physics 13 

### at the University of California at Berkeley 14 

### concluded that the earth's global average 15 

### temperature has indeed increased and that the 16 

### prior estimates of the rate of warming, which 17 

### Professor Muller had previously doubted were 18 

### indeed correct and that this increase is most 19 

### directly correlated with the increase in the 20 

### greenhouse gases of human origin. 21

### Of the anthropogenic sources, power 22200

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### plants using fossil fuels constitute the greatest 1 

### source -- about 30 percent -- of all greenhouse 2 

### gas emissions in the U.S. In addition to the 3 

### invisible and gaseous CO2,

### methane, and so forth, 4 

### coal fired power plants also emit sooty 5 

### particulate and other aerosols. You can directly 6 

### this on cars and other objects parked nearby or 7 

### near power plants. And they look like small 8 

### specks of tarry substances and dust-like things. 9 

### And it takes more than water to clean it. 10

### On a personal level people have to 11 

### breathe in the aerosol, so if you have seen the 12 

### black specks on cars -- which I have and also my 13 

### boat -- you know you don't want to breathe that 14 

### stuff into your body. 15

### I'm aware that there are still people who 16 

### would call these conclusions a hoax. They, 17 

### unfortunately, include many national political 18


### leaders who have not crunched the numbers on 19 

### their own. These data are available publicly, 20 

### and the critics should crunch these numbers 21 

### themselves before they make these pronouncements. 22201

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### However, let us assume that we do not 1 

### adopt that rhetoric. People who accept these 2 

### numbers, nevertheless point to some substantial 3 

### issues regarding the economic consequences of 4 

### requiring more stringent federal requirements. 5 

### In general, the fossil fuel and power 6 

### industries have consistently posed emissions 7 

### standards with the argument that such standards 8 

### increase the cost of energy, leading to higher 9 

### cost to the consumers and businesses, and 10 

### resulting in loss of jobs. This argument 11 

### implicitly assumes that the current cost is the 12 

### true cost of energy and that increases resulting 13 

### from any regulations are new added cost. This is 14 

### incorrect. 15

### The argument ignores certain costs of 16 

### producing electricity that are currently passed 17 

### on to the society at large and that are hidden. 18 

### The increased global average temperature means 19 

### that the atmosphere has more energy, so this will 20 

### necessarily change the global atmospheric 21 

### circulation patterns. This is irrespective of 22202

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### any kind of model that you may have in mind. 1 

### So the most likely outcome is that some 2 

### agricultural regions will suffer a drought and 3 

### some deserts may become flooded more -- become 4 

### flooded more frequently. This is already evident 5 

### in -- in -- all around us. These imposed real 6


### costs to those who are affected. 7 

### And the sooty and tarry aerosols can 8 

### adversely affect the health of the overall 9 

### population. Because the impact of emissions 10 

### cannot be localized, it is proper that the EPA 11 

### standards be federal. And the implementation 12 

### plan is key, and it should be as strong as 13 

### possible. 14

### I have a -- running out of time, but the 15 

### financial benefits of cleaner power plant 16 

### emissions are -- are clear. And also, this will 17 

### be reflected. It will -- instead of losing cost 18 

### in jobs, I think it will force the power industry 19 

### to innovate and develop the necessary new 20 

### technology and new jobs to meet the requirements. 21

### So I believe that the handwriting is on 22203

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### the wall. The world population is much greater 1 

### than it has ever been. The demand for energy is 2 

### rapidly increasing. Environmental protection 3 

### will be a major demand for the entire world. By 4 

### staying ahead the U.S. can hope to maintain its 5 

### technological edge and derive benefits for 6 

### everyone at the same time. 7 

### I thank you for your attention and 8 

### consideration. 9 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. Thank 10 

### you both. 11

### Mary Martin and Susan Stillman. After 12 

### the two of them, Katie Plowright and Sarah 13 

### Saylor. 14

### MS. MARTIN: Mary Martin, M-A-R-Y, 15


### M-A-R-T-I-N. Good afternoon. I'm here on behalf 16 

### of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber is 17 

### the world's largest business federation 18 

### representing the interests of more than 3 million 19 

### businesses of all sizes, sectors, and regions as 20 

### well as state and local chambers and industry 21 

### associations. 22204

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### The Chamber and its members continue to 1 

### review and analyze the EPA's Clean Power Plan and 2 

### related proposal on the Federal Plan requirements 3 

### for GHG emissions from existing EGUs, the Model 4 

### Trading Rules, and the amendments to the process 5 

### for acting on Clean Air Act, Section 111(d) state 6 

### plans. 7 

### With respect to the Clean Power Plan, the 8 

### Chamber certainly has concerns about the EPA's 9 

### statutory and legal authority to promulgate the 10 

### regulation. The impact of the Clean Power Plan 11 

### on the affordability and reliability of 12 

### electricity in this country and the feasibility 13 

### and achievability of the regulation. Those 14 

### concerns have been identified in comments filed 15 

### during the rulemaking process as well as recent 16 

### legal challenges. 17

### As to the proposal at issue here today, I 18 

### will focus my comments on one of the areas of 19 

### concern that we have -- mainly the burdens placed 20 

### on states by this proposal and the related Clean 21


### Power Plan. 22205

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### The federal regulatory burden on the 1 

### states continues to grow, and in fact, has seen 2 

### an unprecedented rate of growth in the last year 3 

### with the EPA's finalizing of some of the most 4 

### significant and sweeping environmental 5 

### regulations in decades. 6 

### States implement approximately 96.5 7 

### percent of the environmental laws that are 8 

### delegated to them. As a result, the success of 9 

### the EPA issued rules often depends on the states. 10 

### In 2013 the Agency provided $3.6 billion to the 11 

### states for the administration of its program. 12 

### Federal grants represented between 26 and 29 13 

### percent of the environmental budgets of the 14 

### states in 2013. The bottom line, states continue 15 

### to do the lion's share of the implementation of 16 

### federal environmental programs without being 17 

### fully compensated. 18 

### Again, and as shown in the chart that's 19 

### in my written statement, states implement 20 

### approximately 96.5 percent of federal 21 

### environmental programs. This is a tremendous 22206

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### burden for them, particularly from a time, money, 1 

### and resource perspective. 2 

### To add to the difficulties that states 3 

### face, according to the Environmental Council of 4 

### States, ECOS, states have seen a trend in 5 

### declining funds from the federal government to 6 

### implement these programs. Federal budget 7 

### documents confirm that the EPA's state and tribal 8 

### assistance grants budgets have decreased 9 

### significantly in recent years. While the largest 10 

### funding source for state environmental agencies 11 

### is permit fees, federal funding is the second 12 

### largest source. 13

### ECOS reports that -- quote: Decreasing 14 

### funds from the federal government jeopardize 15 

### states' ability to implement federally delegated 16 

### programs and policies. These -- these problems 17 

### will be significantly compounded by the fact that 18 

### now the states also have to administer the 19 

### precedent-setting Clean Power Plan, the new Ozone 20 

### Standards, and the Waters of the U.S. Rule 21 

### simultaneously. We, the regulated community 22207

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### recognize and appreciate the fact that states are 1 

### carrying such a huge burden and doing so with 2 

### shrinking resources. Indeed that burden is only 3 

### going to grow in the future as EPA issues more 4 

### complex and costly regulations. 5 

### It was mentioned above, the EPA has 6 

### finalized three historically significant 7 

### regulations, CPP, Waters of the U.S., and the 8 

### Ozone Standards all within four months. This 9 

### reality amounts to a sobering conclusion: EPA 10 

### issues mandate after mandate on the states and 11 

### the regulated community, but the states can only 12 

### do so much with their limited and finite 13 

### resources. As a result, states are being asked 14 

### to do more and more with less and less when it 15 

### comes to implementing federal environmental 16 

### programs and policies. 17

### While the Chamber believes that the EPA 18 

### has exceeded its statutory authority with the 19 

### promulgation of the Clean Power Plan to the 20 

### extent the Agency continues to move forward with 21 

### this plan, including the proposal at issue today, 22208

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### it is imperative that the EPA give the states 1 

### meaningful flexibility in terms of implementation 2 

### and compliance. 3 

### For instance, the EPA should not require 4 

### a detailed filing by states seeking an extension 5 

### of time to submit a State Implementation Plan 6 

### after the September 2016 extension deadline. 7 

### This proposal plus the CPP itself are incredibly 8 

### complex and technical materials that require an 9 

### inordinate amount of time and resources for 10 

### review, analysis, and ultimately development of 11 

### an implementation plan. 12

### The EPA has complicated matters further 13 

### by proposing relevant guidance to the states but 14 

### leaving key questions open for debate until being 15 

### finalized in the summer of 2016. States will 16 

### have little time to react to any final input by 17


### the EPA. 18

### As previously mentioned, state resources 19 

### are limited and precious these days. 20 

### Consequently, the EPA should be reasonable and 21 

### lenient in its review and approval of these 22209

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### extension requests. 1 

### For those same reasons, the Agency also 2 

### should extend the September 2016 deadline for 3 

### states to submit a State Implementation Plan or 4 

### request an extension. We suggest the deadline be 5 

### extended to one year following the Agency's 6 

### finalizing of the Model State Trading Rules. 7 

### In addition to the reasons based upon 8 

### resources and complexity, numerous states will 9 

### have to undertake a legislative process in 10 

### connection with their implementation of the CPP. 11 

### The timing of those legislative processes cannot 12 

### be accelerated or compelled, so the EPA should 13 

### give states sufficient time to let those 14


### processes run. 15

### We hope that EPA will give full and 16 

### thoughtful consideration to these concerns and 17 

### suggestions. Thank you for your time and 18 

### consideration today. 19

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much, Mary. 20 

### Just one note -- and I'm happy to get it for you. 21 

### We did give states some guidance on what the 2016 22210

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### extension letter needs to require, and it's -- 1 

### it's not entirely burdensome, but we can talk 2 

### about that if you would like. 3 

### MS. MARTIN: Sure. Great. Thank you. 4 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 5 

### Ms. Stillman. 6 

### MS. STILLMAN: Hi, my name is Susan 7 

### Stillman, S-U-S-A-N, S-T-I-L-L-M-A-N. And I live 8 

### in Vienna, Virginia, just down the road. 9 

### So thank you for the opportunity to speak 10 

### today regarding the Federal Implementation Plan 11 

### of the Clean Power Plan. I live in Virginia 12 

### where our Governor says that we're going to 13 

### achieve the goals that we've been given by the 14 

### EPA for the Clean Power Plan. And I'm really 15 

### pleased with that. 16

### I am concerned, however, that in Virginia 17 

### we'll have legislators that try to keep the 18 

### administration from doing more than the CPP 19 

### requires or who will want to restrict the plan to 20 

### existing sources rather than future and existing 21 

### sources. We'll work hard in Virginia to -- to 22211

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### meet and exceed our CPP requirements and fend off 1 

### the naysayers. 2 

### The Clean Power Plan, if implemented and 3 

### enforced as currently planned, is predicted to 4 

### prevent 150,000 asthma attacks and up to 6,600 5 

### premature deaths annually. That's worth a lot of 6 

### money. I mean, lives and health are really 7 

### important. 8 

### Add to that the risk of sea level rise 9 

### and the cost imputed by that and the impetus to 10 

### get this plan right and to implement the CPP in a 11 

### timely manner is fundamental to maintaining a 12 

### livable world. 13

### States that are pushing back on the CPP 14 

### are not looking at the opportunities that it will 15 

### bring. The CPP provides great opportunities for 16 

### economic growth and sustainable development. 17

### The EPA has estimated that the CPP will 18 

### deliver annual economic benefits of up to $93 19 

### billion by 2030. What more could you ask for? 20 

### Clean air? Less risk from climate change while 21 

### creating a new economy. 22212

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### Even with all the opportunities afforded 1 

### the U.S. with the implementation of the CPP, 2 

### there are states that will decide to not act on 3 

### climate. They will refuse to develop a SIP and 4 

### meet their CPP requirements. For those states 5 

### it's critical that the EPA promptly issue a 6 

### Federal Implementation Plan. Carbon pollution is 7 

### world -- is a worldwide problem, causing climate 8 

### change and global warming. Reducing this 9 

### pollution will save lives and protect the planet 10 

### from those dangerous effects of climate change. 11

### Reductions must come as soon as possible. 12 

### States that require a FIP are making the CPP a 13 

### political issue. That's really an issue of 14 

### physics. These states should fall in line and do 15 

### their part to mitigate climate pollution. 16

### To ensure the draft model federal plan is 17 

### strong and just, the EPA must achieve the 18 

### pollution reductions provided in the final CPP 19 

### or, hopefully, even greater reductions. So the 20 

### FIP should do those things. 21

### The federal plan needs to include new 22213

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### power plants to garner sufficient electricity 1 

### sector reductions of pollution, covering the 2 

### existing plants alone will not achieve the carbon 3 

### reductions required. 4 

### Energy efficiency must be part of the 5 

### overall plan, particularly for low income 6 

### consumers to lower their bills. The least 7 

### expensive electricity is that which we don't use. 8


### We need to ensure that the Model Federal 9 

### Plan benefits and protects low income and 10 

### disadvantaged communities. For too long we've 11 

### put power plants and their remaining coal ash in 12 

### the communities that can least fight back. These 13 

### communities have borne the brunt of the harms 14 

### caused by pollution; and in many cases, those are 15 

### the ones that would be most harmed by climate 16 

### change. 17

### And the EPA must resist giving away 18 

### allowances to the most polluting sources. 19 

### Remember, this is all about physics even though 20 

### we turn it into politics. So, the EPA should 21 

### stick to what's required to achieve the carbon 22214

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### pollution reductions to avoid the worst effects 1 

### of climate change. 2 

### The CPP, if implemented and enforced 3 

### appropriately, will make the U.S. a leader in the 4 

### world for fighting climate change. We're a 5 

### country that prides ourself in being a leader, 6 

### and I'm looking for us -- I'm really looking 7 

### forward to us retrieving that mantle. 8 

### Really, if we can put a man on the moon 9 

### and now they're talking about Mars, why can't we 10 

### clean up our atmosphere? 11

### Thank you for all that you do at the EPA. 12 

### I really appreciate it, and just keep up the good 13


### work. 14

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. Thank you both. 15

### MS. STILLMAN: Where would I give my 16 

### copies? 17


### MR. RUPP: To the desk out front where 18


### you -- 19

### MS. STILLWELL: Okay. Thank you. 20

### MR. RUPP: -- where you signed in. Thank 21


### you. 22215

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### We are going to take a moment so Chris 1 

### can keep writing and get a new pen, but Katie 2 

### Plowright and Sarah Saylor, if you want to come 3 

### up to the table? 4 

### And on deck we've got Jon Cooper and Adam 5


### Hasz. 6 

### (Pause.) 7 

### All right. Katie and Sarah. 8 

### MS. PLOWRIGHT: Hi, my name is Katie 9 

### Plowright. K-A-T-I-E, last name Plowright, 10


### P-L-O-W-R-I-G-H-T. 11

### I'm going to be fast here, but I first 12 

### wanted to start out saying thanks to the EPA, the 13 

### Obama Administration, and the President for 14 

### moving forward with the Clean Power Plan. 15

### Limiting global warming pollution from 16 

### the power plants is a critical step forward for 17 

### protecting my generation from the worst impacts 18 

### of climate change. As a college student 19 

### interning in Environment America I appreciate 20 

### this opportunity to provide feedback on these 21


### drafts. 22216

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### Having spent most of my life in 1 

### California, I know that aggressively timing my 2 

### showers and not having green grass in my local 3 

### dog parks is a minor implication of the droughts 4 

### affecting my state; but these small implications 5 

### are representative of a very large problem that's 6 

### affecting many Californians today. For 7 

### California, South Carolina, Texas, and many other 8 

### states that are currently affected by extreme 9 

### weather it is important that we do everything in 10 

### our power to implement the Clean Power Plan as 11 

### quickly as possible and invest in clean energy. 12

### Energy efficiency is the cheapest and 13 

### easiest way for Americans to decrease our carbon 14 

### pollution. It is estimated that we could reduce 15 

### our overall energy use by 40 to 60 percent by 16


### 2051. 17

### States across the country have a vast 18 

### capability to shift to clean energy. For 19 

### example, America has the potential to power 20 

### itself 10 times over with wind. In fact, 21 

### Colorado is already producing more than 10 22217

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### percent of its energy from wind. 1 

### Furthermore, the United States has the 2 

### potential to produce more than a hundred times as 3 

### much electricity from solar energy each year. 4 

### So, honestly, how could we not? 5 

### So, here are some recommendations: As 6 

### the EPA finalizes the Model Rule and the Federal 7 

### Implementation Plan, the EPA should move as fast 8 

### as possible. The faster the EPA can finalize the 9 

### Model Rule, the more -- the more certainty states 10 

### will have as they develop their compliance plans 11 

### and the quicker they can move forward. 12

### Additionally, the EPA should apply the 13 

### Federal Implementation Plan provisions swiftly 14 

### should a state decline to adequately carry out 15 

### its responsibilities. 16

### Lastly, the EPA must ensure that the 17 

### affected power plants abide by enforceable limits 18 

### on their emissions of global warming pollution. 19

### We strongly encourage investment in clean 20 

### energy resources. And I thank you again for the 21 

### opportunity to speak. For me, my generation, 22218

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### California and all 50 states I urge you to move 1 

### forward in cleaning up our nation's power plants. 2


### Thanks. 3 

### MS. SALOR: Hello. Sarah Saylor, 4 

### S-A-R-A-H, S-A-Y-L-O-R. Thank you very much for 5 

### the opportunity to comment today. 6 

### I'm representing my organization Earth 7 

### Justice, and we also have lots of other comments 8 

### to make than the ones I am able to give today, 9 

### and those will be coming to you in writing. I'm 10 

### sure you look forward to that, but today I just 11 

### wanted to share some thoughts around one of the 12 

### areas in which we think the proposal falls short. 13

### And that is in the FIP's treatment of 14 

### biomass and waste burning. EPA must exclude 15 

### waste burning and biomass incineration as 16 

### compliance strategies under the FIP. Treating 17 

### these facilities as legitimate strategies to 18


### reduce CO2

### emissions would be contrary to the 19 

### available science, undermine the greenhouse gas 20 

### reduction objective of the Clean Power Plan, and 21 

### increase pollution burdens in communities already 22219

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### heavily impacted by air pollution. 1 

### Per unit of energy burning waste and 2 

### burning biomass release more CO2

### than burning 3 

### coal. Again, that's per unit of energy. An 4 

### abundance of peer-reviewed science confirms that 5 

### harvesting and burning forest wood for energy 6 

### represents a large net source of CO2

### emissions 7 

### that persists for decades and more than a 8 

### century. 9 

### Even if EPA could nationally conclude -- 10 

### sorry, rationally conclude over the long term 11 

### that burning a few specific types of biomass can, 12 

### under certain circumstances, result in fewer 13 

### carbon emissions than burning fossil fuels, EPA 14 

### cannot allow the inclusion of biomass as an 15 

### eligible compliance measure in the FIP without 16 

### providing notice of the Agency's intended 17 

### approach to identifying what it considers as 18 

### qualified biomass feedstocks. 19

### The proposed FIP states that using some 20 

### kinds of biomass may have carbon benefits but 21 

### only if the feedstocks are sourced responsibly 22220

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### and attributes of the carbon cycle related to the 1 

### biomass feedstock are taken into account. 2 

### In the proposed FIP EPA has not suggested 3 

### a specific method for how to assess those two 4 

### factors. At most, EPA has hinted that some 5 

### demonstration showing wood has been sustainably 6 

### harvested from forests might be sufficient, but 7 

### current forest sustainability's standards do not 8


### address the carbon balance. 9 

### The fact that the Agency has not been 10 

### able to identify a concrete approach for this 11 

### important determination is a strong indicator 12 

### that the inclusion of biomass derived fuels as a 13 

### compliance strategy is not currently defensible. 14

### But more immediately, finalizing a FIP 15 

### that allows the use of qualified biomass without 16 

### proposing a specific approach for how the agency 17 

### could determine which biomass feedstocks qualify 18 

### and under what circumstances, would only further 19 

### cement the unjustified conclusion that biomass 20 

### burning has a role to play in reducing carbon 21 

### emissions under the Clean Power Plan. 22221

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### Moreover, if the FIP incentivizes waste 1 

### incineration by allowing the biogenic fraction of 2 

### incinerator feedstocks to be counted as carbon 3 

### reduction, the result will be to heap additional 4 

### burdens on minority, low income, and indigenous 5 

### communities that have long borne the brunt of 6 

### fossil fuel pollution and are likely to 7 

### experience the worst impacts of climate change. 8 

### Waste incinerators are often cited in 9 

### these communities. And while some portion of the 10 

### trash they combust is organic matter, that 11 

### material is only a portion of the fuel mix. The 12 

### rest may be highly contaminated with wastes and 13 

### emit hazardous air pollutants when burned, 14 

### including heavy metals and dioxin. 15

### Any incentives for burning biogenic waste 16 

### would mean more garbage incineration overall, 17 

### and, of course, we believe more heavy metals, 18 

### more dioxin, and other hazardous air pollutants. 19

### In sum, while EPA has worked to issue 20 

### this FIP will ensure real reduction in carbon 21 

### pollution and the protection of public health, 22222

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### the Agency must revise the final product to 1 

### reflect the truth about biomass and waste 2 

### burning, there are ways of generating electricity 3 

### that can legitimately be called carbon neutral; 4 

### but lumping biomass and waste burning into that 5 

### category ignores the current science and creates 6 

### a loophole that will erode the climate benefits 7 

### of the Clean Power Plan while further threatening 8 

### the health of the fence-line communities. 9 

### Thanks again for the opportunity. 10

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 11

### Jon Cooper and Adam Hasz? 12

### And after this panel we will have Kim 13 

### Noble and Michael Sandler. 14


### Hello. 15

### MR. COOPER: Good afternoon. Thank you 16 

### for having me. My name is Jon, J-O-N; Cooper, 17 

### C-O-O-P-E-R. I'm Ph.D, J.D. I'm a volunteer at 18 

### this point environmental law professor at the 19 

### University of District of Columbia and previously 20 

### have -- over the last 40 years -- served in 21 

### government, academia, and private industry on 22223

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### environmental issues. 1 

### I was at EPA, and I was in the 2 

### environmental division with the Coast Guard for 3 

### several years. 4


### MR. RUPP: Welcome back. 5 

### MR. COOPER: So, as a professional I 6 

### support this rule and believe that it's vitally 7 

### important to push it forward. I also think it's 8 

### very important that we make some changes and some 9 

### of -- communication issues are solved. And so 10 

### what I want to talk to you about today are three 11 

### things: One, climate change; two, impact on poor 12 

### communities; and three, communication changes in 13 

### your analysis. 14

### The first one, I think is just very 15 

### clear, but there's -- we've heard other speakers, 16 

### and there's been a lot of press about whether 17 

### climate change is real. And I just submit to you 18 

### that there's three stages here. One, an argument 19 

### over whether climate change is real. And I think 20 

### most people have agreed now that that is true. 21

### The second stage is what is the role of 22224

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### humankind in causing those climate changes and 1 

### the -- again, the data are very supportive of the 2 

### idea that we are either contributing or a major 3 

### component in those climate changes. 4 

### And so, I think the third phase is the 5 

### where we are now which is many people argue that 6 

### we don't know enough about what to do to prevent 7 

### these changes, and, therefore, we shouldn't waste 8 

### money making changes. I disagree with that, and 9 

### I think this present plan shows that we do enough 10 

### to make meaningful changes that can affect 11 

### climate change. 12

### I remind you of the important -- the 13 

### importance not only of climate change and what it 14 

### can -- as many speakers have already talked to 15 

### you about -- that can -- what can -- the impacts 16 

### on humankind, but the precautionary principle 17 

### that if we don't do something now, we may be too 18 

### late, or -- and certainly we need to try to -- to 19 

### minimize these efforts. 20

### And so, I would argue that even if it 21 

### turns out to be somewhat ineffective or 22225

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### inefficient in some of our efforts, that doing 1 

### these efforts are very analogous to things that 2 

### we needed to do in the past that have shown that 3


### were useful. 4 

### I also want to speak very quickly -- and 5 

### I'll get back to it a little bit more -- to the 6 

### fact that it's a burden on the states. We -- we 7 

### went through this exercise before in the Clean 8 

### Water Act where we left all the -- the clean-up 9 

### of rivers and so on to state implementation. And 10 

### guess what. We got fires on the Cayuga River, 11 

### and we got all kinds of things, and it became 12 

### obvious that we needed federal direction. And we 13 

### need to use federal direction to force the state 14 

### work. I'll get back to SIPs in a minute. 15

### The second point I want to bring to you 16 

### is the very important nexus between environmental 17 

### law, this plan, and social justice. The -- as 18 

### several -- many other people have indicated to 19 

### you, there could be and there have been in the 20 

### past undue impacts on poor communities; and -- 21 

### and EPA recognizes this through their 22226

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### environmental justice program which is thriving. 1 

### And I'm -- and I applaud that work. 2 

### However, as an example, the university -- 3 

### at the law school we just held a conference on 4 

### brainstorming on environmental law and social 5 

### justice, and we were able to see the undue burden 6 

### on poor people of utility changes that are 7 

### happening. And so, we need to keep that in mind 8


### here. 9 

### Now, of course, the utility changes 10 

### happen at the local distributor levels, and 11 

### that's where they pay their bills and so on, and 12 

### things like that; but as an example, late fees, 13 

### the increase in water bills right now are -- are 14 

### enormously expensive. We've seen water bills go 15 

### up 50 percent where obviously their incomes have 16 

### not. And so we have to be mindful of the equity 17 

### issues here in the -- in the implementation of 18


### the rule. 19

### I would submit to you that a lot of the 20 

### trading ideas and the allowance ideas that are in 21 

### the rule should result in some kind of -- some 22227

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### kind of a fund to help poor communities. And 1 

### we're very effective at doing that. For 2 

### instance, the Clean Air Act itself, which this is 3 

### coming out of, has all kinds of retraining funds 4 

### and so on for soft coal miners and things like 5 

### that. So there's a -- so there's certainly a lot 6 

### of obvious -- 7 

### MR. RUPP: Thirty seconds. 8 

### MR. COOPER: Okay. 9 

### And the -- the last point I want to make 10 

### is that communications -- several other speakers 11 

### -- and I've already mentioned Environmental 12 

### Justice. I would like to see the document more 13 

### accessible for many people. There's a lot of 14 

### analyses that are not clear to me. For instance, 15 

### I tried to feed -- feed together the 16 

### environmental justice pieces that you have in 17 

### there. They're not obvious, and I think that 18 

### needs to be all rewritten. I think you care 19 

### about that, but it needs to be redone. And the 20 

### same thing goes for the economic analysis. 21

### My time is up, but thank you for the 22228

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### opportunity to be here. 1 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 2 

### MR. HASZ: Hi. Adam Hasz, A-D-A-M, 3 

### H-A-S-Z. And I'm a resident of Washington, D.C., 4 

### and I lead a youth advocacy group called Sustain 5 

### Us which works to advance justice and 6 

### sustainability. 7 

### I'm here to urge the EPA to act boldly on 8 

### climate by creating a strong and just Federal 9 

### Implementation Plan for the Clean Power Plan. As 10 

### a young leader I believe that the strong federal 11 

### standards for the Clean Power Plan are crucial to 12 

### avert the worst consequences of the climate 13 

### crisis which will disproportionately impact my 14 

### generation and future generations to come. 15

### I speak in solidarity with these future 16 

### generations to impress upon you the need for 17 

### aggressive action on all fronts against this 18 

### growing threat. And that means that if states 19 

### refuse to create their own plans, the U.S. EPA 20 

### should set just and ambitious standards and 21 

### enforce that implementation for those states that 22229

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### do not create their -- their own plans. 1 

### According to recent polling, young people 2 

### from both parties under the age of 35 strongly 3 

### support action on climate change, and they want 4 

### to elect leaders that will address that threat. 5 

### For us, this is not a political issue; this is an 6 

### issue of intergenerational justice, morality, and 7 

### survival. Our generation also fundamentally 8 

### disagrees that the contention that action against 9 

### climate change would be bad for the economy. 10

### We know that climate is one of the 11 

### greatest threats we've ever faced, but fighting 12 

### it also creates a great opportunity for the 13 

### economy. Young Americans under 35 currently have 14 

### 15 percent unemployment rate in this country -- 15 

### sorry, that's 16 to 24 -- Americans 16 to 24 have 16 

### a 15 percent unemployment rate in this country. 17

### This devastatingly high number could be 18 

### reduced by taking a bold stance against climate 19 

### change through employment opportunities 20 

### associated with incentivizing renewable energy 21 

### deployment, efficiency implementation, and other 22230

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### initiatives to reduce our nation's impact on the 1 

### planet. 2 

### My vision for this country is a rapid and 3 

### equitable transition to 100 percent renewable 4 

### energy. The Federal Implementation Standards for 5 

### the Clean Power Plan must not result in the 6 

### increased or continued dependence on natural gas 7 

### extracted through hydraulic fracturing. Further 8 

### fossil fuel extraction would just stifle 9 

### innovation, job growth, and economic development 10 

### that would result in holding back our transition 11 

### to 100 percent renewable energy. 12

### I ask the EPA to set scientifically 13 

### defensible Federal Implementation standards for 14 

### existing power plants that are truly protective 15 

### of my generation's inherent right to survival and 16 

### also put the nation on a path towards 100 percent 17 

### renewable energy as soon as possible. 18

### In particular, these standards must 19 

### ensure that carbon pollution in the Model Federal 20 

### Plan achieve the pollution reductions promised in 21 

### the Final Clean Power Plan but just as a minimum. 22231

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### Preferably, they should be a lot more. Ensure 1 

### that states address potential carbon pollution 2 

### from new power plants to achieve overall electric 3 

### sector reductions in carbon pollution. 4 

### Protect low income communities by 5 

### maximizing utilities incentives to invest in 6 

### energy efficiency which lowers energy bills, 7 

### ensure that the Model Plan protects and benefits 8 

### minority communities, low income communities, and 9 

### indigenous communities that have long borne the 10 

### brunt of fossil fuel pollution and will be most 11 

### likely to experience the impacts of climate 12 

### change firsthand. 13

### And finally, resist give-aways of 14 

### allowances to the most polluting sources. 15

### More than any other crisis, climate 16 

### change threatens our shared future. I urge you 17 

### to set just and strong federal standards that 18 

### protect vulnerable communities and generations to 19



### come. 20

### If done right, these standards can be a 21 

### crucial catalyst in moving towards shared 22232

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### prosperity and 100 percent renewable energy 1 

### economy. Thank you. 2 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. Kim Noble and 3 

### Michael Sandler. 4 

### And after this panel we'll have James 5 

### Duffy and Dustin White. 6 

### MS. NOBLE: Good afternoon. I'm Kim 7 

### Noble. I'm -- N-O-B-L-E. I'm the Director of 8 

### National Partnerships for Green for All. Thank 9 

### you for this opportunity to comment on the 10 

### proposed Federal Plan and Model Rules for the 11


### Clean Power Plan. 12

### Green for All was created with a vision 13 

### that you can and should fight poverty and 14 

### pollution at the same time. Our mission remains 15 

### the same -- to build an inclusive green economy 16 

### strong enough to lift people out of poverty. The 17 

### trailblazers of the environmental justice 18 

### movement worked tirelessly and continue to do so 19 

### to bring to the forefront the gross environmental 20 

### degradation that people of color and poor people 21 

### have long faced and continue to face every day. 22233

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### Green for All's work is really rooted in 1 

### bridging the gap between vulnerability and 2 

### opportunity by improving environmental quality in 3 

### communities most affected by climate change, 4 

### unemployment, and poverty. 5 

### Equity must be at the center of policies 6 

### addressing climate change. The Federal Plan 7 

### should include policy choices and implementation 8 

### approaches that specifically take equity into 9 

### account. This is especially important in the 10 

### allocation of limited resources such as pollution 11


### allowances. 12

### Green for All applauds the EPA for 13 

### recognizing that there are important equity 14 

### considerations in how the value of pollution 15 

### allowances are allocated by a government agency. 16

### EPA requested comment on alternatives to 17 

### giving away virtually all the valuable pollution 18 

### allowances to polluters for free. We look 19 

### forward to engaging on this topic to ensure the 20 

### Clean Power Plan generates value and economic 21 

### opportunities for communities. 22234

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### Communities of color and communities with 1 

### low incomes must receive net environmental and 2 

### economic benefits. The allowances created and 3 

### any revenues generated by the implementation of 4


### the Clean Power Plan should be used to ensure 5 

### disproportionately impacted communities receive 6 

### net economic and environmental benefits. 7 

### Policies or programs within the Federal 8 

### Implementation Plan, in addition to any revenues 9 

### committed to or generated by such programs should 10 

### maximize environmental, social, and economic 11 

### benefits in impacted communities. 12

### Thank you for the opportunity to comment. 13

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 14

### MR. SANDLER: Hi, my name Mike Sandler. 15 

### I live in Springfield, Virginia. I am a co16 

### founder of the Center for Climate Protection 17 

### based in California. In that role I engaged in 18 

### the public process around the carbon market 19 

### design of AB 32 for several years. I also have a 20 

### website at CarbonShare.org. 21

### And I would like to build on the comments 22235

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### of Green For All. I also believe that equity is 1 

### a very important aspect, and I hope my comments 2 

### will emphasize that. 3 

### So I have submitted some written 4 

### comments, and I'll just be reading from that 5 

### mostly, but I might add a few things that I’m 6 

### thinking of right now as well. 7 

### The four design elements that I 8 

### encouraged California to adopt in their market 9 

### design were, first, to regulate upstream fossil 10 

### fuel production or import. Second, to auction 11 

### 100 percent of permits rather than giving them 12 

### away. Three -- third, is to return all or most 13 

### of the revenue from the auction proceeds back to 14 

### the public following the Cap and Dividend Model. 15 

### And four is to include a price floor on the 16


### allowances. 17

### And California does have a price floor on 18 

### their allowances, and I believe that's probably 19 

### the best aspect of their market design. That's 20 

### the reason why their permit price is around $12 a 21 

### ton and not 3 or something, whatever the European 22236

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### market has been really low. You know, all these 1 

### other market prices have been very low; and 2 

### California's is relatively high. And it's 3 

### because of the price floor. 4 

### So, some of the areas that the EPA asked 5 

### for comment on -- first, is mass-based versus 6 

### rate-based. And it seems like mass-based is the 7 

### way to go. I don't know what the benefits to 8 

### rate-based would be, but it seems like mass-based 9 

### is more straightforward and easier for both 10 

### industry and EPA. 11

### Second, regarding grandfathering 12 

### allowances or giving the allowances free to 13 

### historic emissions. I'm very strongly encourage 14 

### or urge the EPA to auction 100 percent of 15 

### allowances and put that in the Model Rule and 16 

### also to include a price floor on the allowance 17 

### price. 18


### The SO2

### trading system was a give-away. 19 

### All the allowances went straight to those 20 

### regulated entities, and you may hear from some 21 

### economists who say it doesn't matter, but it 22237

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### makes a big difference to the people because 1 

### you're basically enriching certain companies, and 2 

### it's -- the value of those allowances is actually 3 

### part of the public trust. 4 

### The concept is who owns the sky? We all 5


### do. It's a commons that we all share. And those 6 

### allowances do not belong to those companies. 7 

### They belong to the people, and the people are 8 

### allowing those companies to, you know, use those 9 

### permits or to buy those permits. And for that 10 

### the people should be compensated with the value 11 

### being returned as a dividend. 12

### And that's being done in Alaska. It's a 13 

### slightly different system. It's not a carbon 14 

### price per se, but it's called the Alaska 15


### Permanent Fund. And that's sort of the model 16 

### that the Cap and Dividend Approach has taken. 17 

### They looked at what the Alaska Permanent Fund is, 18 

### and if you know anyone who lives in Alaska, they 19 

### receive one or two thousand dollars a year. It 20 

### has bi-partisan support. Sarah Palin is a big 21 

### supporter of it. And it's -- actually functions 22238

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### in a way as a basic income, which is another term 1 

### you may hear in the social justice community. A 2 

### few thousand dollars really helps the lowest 3 

### income people the most. And people that have 4 

### high carbon footprint will just pay that in the 5 

### carbon price. They'll pay the money back into 6 

### the system and -- if they're flying around a lot 7 

### or doing other high carbon intensive activities. 8 

### So I see I've got yellow, so I'm going to 9 

### jump ahead. 10

### You have some set asides listed in the 11 

### Model Rule. There's three types of set asides 12 

### for a clean energy incentive, supporting 13 

### renewable energy and updating. And I don't think 14 

### you'll need any of that if you auction. So, 15 

### there's no need to do complicated set asides. 16 

### That's one of the problems with the grandfathered 17 

### allowance approach. So if you auction, you won't 18


### need to do that. 19

### I already mentioned the third-party 20 

### climate trust. Oh, the benefit of the third21 

### party climate trust is that money can't be paid 22239

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### to EPA because it would go straight to the U.S. 1 

### Treasury. So it's important to have a third2 

### party climate trust that could handle the funds 3 

### and at least set up -- you could set those up at 4


### a state level. 5 

### The State of Oregon is looking at that 6 

### right now. It's OregonClimate.org. They're 7 

### looking into a state-based climate trust where 8 

### it's revenue neutral, and the money wouldn't have 9 

### to go to the state. So -- 10

### MR. RUPP: We're at time. 11

### MR. SANDLER: -- I think I'm out of time, 12 

### so thank you for accepting my comments. 13

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. And 14 

### thanks for giving us the written comments as 15


### well. 16

### James Duffy and Dustin White. Following 17 

### them will be Malin Moench. 18

### MR. DUFFY: Good afternoon. My name is 19 

### Jay Duffy. I'm an associate attorney with the 20 

### Clean Air Task Force. 21

### CATF commends EPA for taking this 22240

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### important next step toward reducing carbon 1 

### pollution from existing power plants, the 2 

### nation's largest source of anthropogenic carbon 3 

### dioxide. 4 

### Finalizing the Model Rule and Federal 5 

### Plan will ease compliance with the Clean Power 6 

### Plan and help facilitate meaningful carbon 7 

### reduction. 8 

### Today I'm only to focus on three key 9 

### areas and recommendations. Mass-based plans 10 

### offer significant advantages over rate-based 11 

### plans. Addressing leakage is crucial to the 12 

### integrity of the Clean Power Plan. And burning 13 

### biomass is an inappropriate compliance measure. 14

### Carbon dioxide contributes significantly 15 

### to climate change and climate change induced 16 

### harms to public health and welfare, including 17 

### respiratory, cardiovascular disease, injuries and 18 

### premature deaths related to extreme weather 19 

### events, changes in the prevalence and geographic 20 

### distribution of food and water-borne illnesses 21 

### and other infectious diseases, and even threats 22241

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### to mental health. 1 

### Uncontrolled fossil fuel power plants 2 

### emit carbon dioxide in large amounts, nearly 3 

### three times as much as the total greenhouse gases 4 

### from the next 10 largest emitting industrial 5 

### sectors combined. 6 

### Furthermore, once emitted, carbon dioxide 7 

### is a very long-lived -- is very long-lived. A 8 

### significant percentage of each ton emitted 9 

### remains aloft, causing climate harm for thousands 10 

### of years. 11


### These two facts alone make near-term 12 

### emission reductions imperative in order to 13 

### mitigate the effects of continuing dangerous 14 

### rates of accumulation and associated damage. 15

### CATF's view is that a Final Model Rule 16


### and Federal based -- Federal Plan based on mass 17 

### allowance trading would offer significant 18 

### advantages over the rate-based plan. These 19 

### include certainty of emission reductions, 20 

### simplicity, ease of compliance and 21 

### administration, enforceability, transparency, the 22242

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### advantage of experience, and consistency in -- 1 

### consistency with present and future carbon 2 

### policies. 3 

### A mass-based rule would also provide 4 

### states with the ability to allocate allowance for 5 

### various public purposes. And, most importantly, 6 

### a mass-based system limits carbon pollution from 7 

### existing power plants to a known and fixed 8


### amount. 9 

### Further, finalizing a mass-based 10 

### allowance trading Federal Implementation Plan is 11 

### squarely within EPA's authority under the Clean 12 

### Air Act. And similar programs for reducing air 13 

### pollution have been successfully implemented by 14 

### EPA in the States for over 15 years. For 15 

### example, allowance trading mechanisms were used 16 

### by the electric generating sector to comply with 17 

### EPA's 1998 NOx

### SIP Call, promulgated under the 18 

### related 110 SIP process. 19

### The Clean Power Plan's state targets are 20 

### based on existing coal fired power plants 21 

### increasing their efficiency and generation from 22243

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### existing natural gas plants and renewable energy 1 

### substituting carbon intensive generation at 2 

### existing power plants. However, to meet these 3 

### targets, EPA must take measures to ensure that 4 

### the Federal Plan and Model Rule minimizes 5 

### incentives to shift generation from affected 6 

### sources to non-affected sources that emit carbon. 7 

### In particular, the carbon -- the Clean 8 

### Power Plan will add compliance costs in the form 9 

### of a carbon price to operating existing natural 10 

### gas power plants that it will not add to new 11 

### natural gas plants. There will, therefore, be an 12 

### incentive to shift generation from existing 13 

### plants to newly built plants whose emissions will 14 

### not be limited by the mass cap. This is an 15 

### example of the leakage problem -- only one 16 

### example. 17

### EPA has suggested two methods of 18 

### containing the -- constraining this type of 19 

### leakage, including both new and existing fossil 20 

### units under the states' mass-based cap, which 21 

### they don't believe they can do under the FIP; or 22244

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### allocating specific set asides of allowances to 1 

### existing natural gas plants, creating a counter 2 

### incentive for leakage to new gas plants. 3 

### In addition, EPA also suggests that 4 

### states can make their own showing that leakage 5 

### will not occur. 6 

### CATF thinks that the Model Rule should 7 

### reflect a strong preference for states to include 8 

### both new and existing sources under the mass9 

### based caps. In addition, we are concerned that 10 

### states choosing to comply via an existing only 11 

### cap may find the proposed set aside provisions 12 

### inadequate to stem possible leakage. 13

### We're going to discuss this leakage along 14 

### with others in more detail in our written 15


### comments. 16

### CATF supports EPA's decision to exclude 17 

### biomass burning from the list of kinds of 18 

### renewable energy presumptively eligible for 19 

### emission reduction credits or ERCs. Under the 20 

### Federal Plan it urges the Agency to also exclude 21 

### biomass in the Model Rule because burning most 22245

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### forms of biomass results in higher carbon dioxide 1 

### emissions per kilowatt generated than burning 2 

### coal or natural gas. Furthermore, the difficulty 3 

### and complexity of accounting for all emissions 4 

### associated with biomass fuel preclude any 5 

### quantification of biomass ERCS with the same 6 

### level of reliability, precision, and transparency 7 

### that EPA uses to support the issuance of ERCs to 8 

### wind, solar, geothermal, and others. 9 

### I thank you for your time and opportunity 10 

### to comment today. And we look forward to 11 

### continue to work with you. 12

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. And Chris has a 13 

### clarifying question. 14

### MR. SHERRHY: Yes, I had a clarifying 15 

### question. 16

### You mentioned that the Model Rule should 17 

### include -- you said a strong preference for 18 

### inclusion of -- of new sources. Could you 19 

### elaborate on that a little bit? Are you talking 20 

### about specific provisions that speak to that or 21 

### optional provisions, or how do you see that being 22246

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### addressed in -- 1


### MR. DUFFY: A Model Rule -- because 2 

### obviously the Model Rule can -- will be something 3 

### that will be streamlined and a state will be able 4 

### to, you know, get pretty much prior approval. 5 

### So, a -- you know, a existing and new cap could 6 

### be one of those -- you know, you submit a new and 7 

### existing, and that checks the box for leakage. 8 

### MR. SHERRHY: So, essentially just 9 

### regulatory provisions that spell out the 10 

### inclusion of new sources -- 11

### MR. DUFFY: Exactly. 12


### MR. SHERRHY: -- that a state could 13 

### choose to adopt? 14


### MR. DUFFY: Yes. 15

### MR. SHERRHY: Okay. Thank you. 16

### MR. WHITE: My name is Dustin White. 17 

### D-U-S-T-I-N, W-H-I-T-E. 18

### And I am a community organizer with the 19 

### Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition out of West 20 

### Virginia. We will be submitting more detailed 21 

### written comments, but I am here today to talk as 22247

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### a life-long resident of West Virginia. I am no 1 

### scientist nor do I hold any type of special 2 

### degree, so I will not be quoting numbers, but I 3 

### know that climate change is real and that fossil 4


### fuels are harmful to human health. 5 

### You have already heard from some of my 6 

### fellow West Virginians, and like them, I commend 7 

### the EPA and the Obama Administration on their 8 

### actions to curtail carbon emissions. 9 

### I grew up in Boone County, West Virginia, 10 

### one of the top coal-producing counties in the 11 

### state, and I am the son of a coal miner. So I am 12 

### no stranger to the human health and environmental 13 

### impacts of coal. 14

### I work in communities where coal, on a 15 

### daily basis, is violently ripped from the ground 16 

### and mountains are blown up. I hope that when the 17 

### EPA thinks about cutting carbon emissions, you 18 

### are considering the full life cycle of the energy 19 

### source. Just because it burns cleaner does not 20 

### mean the extraction process is cleaner. 21

### I hope that you are considering the 22248

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### communities that are impacted by the wake of the 1 

### extraction process from the Powder River basin to 2 

### the Navajo Nation and to the communities where 3 

### they mine uranium for nuclear power. 4 

### My home of West Virginia has already been 5 

### ravaged by coal and is now under threat by the 6 

### natural gas industry. I know that the EPA's 7 

### actions to protect our health and environment 8 

### have been under attack. I know that the charge 9 

### against the EPA and President Obama has been 10 

### mostly led by West Virginia politicians and the 11 

### national and state coal associations in their 12 

### mythical war on coal campaign. 13

### I want to go on public record as saying 14 

### that the West Virginia politicians are not 15 

### working for the people but for the industry. And 16 

### for those who attack the EPA, do it for one 17 

### reason and one reason only -- greed. The fact is 18 

### most of the coal mined in West Virginia is 19 

### metallurgical coal sent to other countries. It 20 

### is not being burned in power plants. Their 21 

### arguments about job loss is false. 22249

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### At this point saying you want to save 1 

### coal in Appalachia is like saying save the dodo 2 

### bird. Even the President of our electric company 3 

### in West Virginia, Appalachian Power admitted that 4 

### it's market costs killing the coal industry, not 5 

### regulations. 6 

### I know that our politicians in Congress 7 

### are working to undermine -- no pun intended -- 8 

### the EPA's progress. And I want it to be known 9 

### that my organization is one that will be an 10 

### intervener in the D.C. Circuit Court for the West 11 

### Virginia Attorney General's lawsuit against the 12 

### Clean Power Plan. We are on your side. We have 13 

### had enough of coal's tyrannical regime and no 14 

### longer want to be a resource colony for the 15 

### nation. 16


### And we would be -- and there would be 17 

### more West Virginians here to tell you this if 18 

### coal hadn't already left them impoverished and 19 

### sick. And the gas industry will only make it 20



### worse. 21

### When it comes to this rule I hope the EPA 22250

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### has thought through how to enforce it. West 1 

### Virginia has a long history of not enforcing 2 

### regulations. Trusting them to do so would only 3 

### continue the fox watching the hen house mentality 4 

### that for over 150 years have allowed the coal 5 

### industry to poison our water and air; and they 6 

### are now allowing the gas industry to do the same. 7 

### For the sake of the climate and the state 8 

### I love, I hope the EPA and the President stand 9 

### strong against the greedy fossil fuel industries 10 

### that want to destroy our planet for profit. 11 

### Thank you. 12

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. Thank you both. 13

### Marlin [sic] Moerch [sic] and Benjamin 14 

### Levitan. 15

### If you've joined us recently, just to 16 

### note that we'll be keeping time here. When the 17 

### light turns yellow, you've got one minute, and 18 

### then five minute is over at red. Please. 19

### MR. MOENCH: Okay. First of all, the 20 

### name is Malin Moench. 21

### MR. RUPP: Malin. I'm sorry. 22251

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### MR. MOENCH: And it's a German name, and 1 

### I can't really even pronounce it myself. 2 

### (Laughter.) 3 

### MR. MOENCH: But I'll have good things to 4 

### say about Germany at the end of my remarks if 5 

### there is still time. 6 

### I represent a group of activist 7 

### physicians, Utah Physicians for a Healthy 8 

### Environment. There are about 300 physicians in 9 

### Utah. It turns out they're led -- the President 10 

### is my brother, and my other brother's Vice11 

### President. They do quite a lot of research and 12 

### activist work in Utah, trying to clean the air 13


### there. 14

### I am not a physician, but I have a degree 15 

### in economics and law, both. And I live in D.C., 16 

### so they use me when they want to speak to the 17 

### EPA, typically. 18

### Although not a physician myself, I am 19 

### told by our doctors -- and this is just the one 20 

### medical thing I'll get into before I get into the 21 

### guts of the Federal Plan. 22252

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### There's an Italian study recently that 1 

### .19 micrograms per deciliter of lead -- 2 

### atmospheric lead. Now this is -- this is blood 3 

### serum lead, but it -- the source of it is 4 

### atmospheric lead. It only takes .19 micrograms 5 

### of lead in blood serum in Italian teenagers to 6 

### lower their IQ by one point. And because the 7 

### concentration of blood serum in Italian teenagers 8 

### averages 1.79, what that means is the failure to 9 

### control lead emitted by coal fired power plants 10 

### in Italy and most of the rest of Western Europe 11 

### has lowered the IQ of Italian teenagers by 9 12 

### points. 13

### Now, if you add the fact that the toxic 14 

### -- the effect of mercury which comes from the 15 

### atmosphere almost entirely from burning coal for 16 

### electric power generation -- mercury -- lab 17 

### studies show is even more toxic to the nervous 18 

### system. And if you add the exposure in the 19 

### developed economies of the world, Italy, United 20 

### States, most of Western Europe, the average 21 

### exposure to both lead and mercury as a result of 22253

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### living near or breathing the air that is 1 

### conditioned or polluted by coal fired power 2 

### plants, you reduce the IQ of children by 14 to 15 3 

### points. That's a full standard deviation. 4 

### And if you want to calculate what the 5 

### benefits of cleaning that emissions up are, 6 

### consider that if you reduce the average IQ of the 7 

### labor force by a full standard deviation, you 8 

### will reduce their ability to earn wages by 15 9 

### percent according to studies. 10

### Now, if you consider that the total wages 11 

### and salaries in the U.S. annually is 12 trillion, 12 

### and if you add benefits, up to 16 trillion. If 13 

### you take 15 percent of that, you are easily above 14 

### a trillion dollars that you would benefit from 15 

### labor productivity if you were to clean up the 16 

### emissions from coal fired power plants. 17

### So you see all of these estimates of what 18 

### the benefits of the Clean Power Plan are, they're 19 

### miniscule compared to calculating the effect on 20 

### worker productivity from cleaning up the 21 

### neurotoxins that come from electric -- from coal 22254

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### fired power plants to produce electricity. 1 

### Okay. Now to get to the more germane 2 

### issue of what's good and what isn't about the 3


### Federal Rule. 4 

### Am I halfway through? 5 

### MR. RUPP: One minute. 6 

### MR. MOENCH: Oh, almost through. Okay. 7 

### We're here as a cheerleader for the Final 8 

### Rule. The Federal Rule in particular is good 9 

### because it has made it so simple compared to the 10 

### proposed rule to do interstate trading, 11 

### especially under the mass-based approach. You 12 

### don't have to, any more, set up a regional 13 

### organization and join. You don't have to 14 

### coordinate the state goals with another state. 15 

### You have these allowances that are so simple to 16 

### calculate that it's easy to get apples to apples. 17 

### And you're able to set up this certification of 18 

### interstate trading that's part of the Final 19


### Federal Plan. 20

### So, in effect what you get is cap and 21 

### trade that has happened under the acid rain 22255

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### regime -- almost the same thing as that. The 1 

### beauty of that is that you don't need much in the 2 

### way of cooperation from these what I call hell 3 

### nosed state legislatures who will just do nothing 4 

### whatsoever to facilitate the implementation of 5


### the Clean Power Plan. So for that reason we are 6 

### in favor of mass-based being the default in the 7 

### Federal Plan, but there are two problems with 8


### mass-based. 9 

### MR. RUPP: Sir, I apologize. We are at 10 

### time. Do you have written comments that you can 11 

### submit? 12

### MR. MOENCH: I'll submit written comments 13


### later. 14

### MR. RUPP: Do you want to take one 15 

### sentence in summary? 16

### MR. MOENCH: Okay. You don't have 17 

### allowances for efficiency; and you don't have 18 

### allowances for storage. And those are key 19 

### elements of being able to get away from coal in 20


### the future. 21

### And I have a lot more to say about that 22256

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### in written comments, but the mass-based is best. 1 

### It's simplest. It's going to work, but it's not 2 

### best because it doesn't have the incentives in 3 

### there for efficiency, programs, and for storage. 4 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 5 

### MR. LEVITAN: Thank you. I'm Ben Levitan 6 

### -- L-E-V-I-T-A-N -- representing the 7 

### Environmental Defense Fund. 8 

### The EPA's Clean Power Plan, or CPP, is a 9 

### vital step forward to help address climate change 10 

### and will yield benefits of $26 to $45 billion 11 

### annually once fully implemented. It is expected 12 

### to save 3,600 lives and prevent 90,000 asthma 13 

### attacks every year. 14

### The Environmental Defense Fund, EDF, 15 

### thanks EPA for finalizing these historic limits 16 

### on our nation's single largest source of carbon 17 

### pollution. EDF encourages states to seize the 18 

### opportunity they have under the CPP to develop 19 

### their own state plans tailored to their unique 20 

### opportunities for innovation and cost savings. 21

### We encourage EPA to finalize the Model 22257

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### Rule frameworks as soon as possible to help 1 

### support Smart State planning efforts. In 2 

### particular, we strongly encourage EPA to consider 3 

### whether some components of the Model Rules can be 4 

### finalized shortly after the comment period closes 5 

### in order to provide states even more clarity as 6 

### they work to develop their plans. 7 

### Standardized Model Rules will provide 8 

### important guidance to states and help them 9 

### develop strong plans that ensure environmental 10 

### integrity. Model Rule frameworks can help cut 11 

### down on the administrative work necessary for 12 

### states, allowing states to focus on the 13 

### customizable components of their implementation 14 

### efforts that are most important to their 15


### stakeholders. 16

### In addition, finalized Model Rules will 17 

### help facilitate interstate trading by doing the 18 

### heavy lifting on detailed underpinnings of 19 

### emissions trading programs which can help drive 20 

### innovation and cost savings. 21

### In particular, the trading-ready feature 22258

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### of the Model Rules provides an important 1 

### opportunity for states to adopt a state plan that 2 

### is compatible with others. 3 

### Should states decline to carry out their 4 

### responsibilities to protect human health and the 5 

### environment from damaging carbon pollution, it is 6 

### EPA's responsibility to do so. This is the 7 

### compelling bipartisan vision of the Clean Air 8 

### Act, that all Americans are entitled to the 9 

### protections of clean air under the law. To 10 

### realize that vision EPA must ensure that real 11 

### world emissions reductions are secured when 12 

### states decline to do so. 13

### EDF urges EPA to finalize a Federal Plan 14 

### that puts federal protections in place swiftly 15 

### when a state declines to act. We are in a race 16 

### against time, and climate safeguards cannot wait. 17 

### Moreover, quickly understanding the Federal Plan 18 

### parameters will provide important certainty for 19 

### businesses. 20

### In addition, we support EPA's proposal to 21 

### issue a Federal Plan for any state that does not 22259

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### meet one of the interim state planning 1 

### milestones. We urge EPA to do so within one year 2


### or less. 3 

### It is also essential that EPA ensure a 4 

### Federal Plan is promptly issued in cases where a 5 

### state is not implementing its plan and fails to 6 

### take corrective action. This Federal Plan must 7 

### fully account for any forgone emission 8 

### reductions. 9 

### We also urge EPA to put in place 10 

### effective federal limits on carbon pollution when 11 

### a state declines to carry out its 12 

### responsibilities. That means EPA must adopt 13 

### enforceable limits on the volume of climate 14 

### pollution discharged by effective power plants as 15 

### well as strong measures to ensure that these 16 

### limits are not circumvented and generate real 17 

### reductions across the power sector. 18

### Any finalized federal plan should be 19 

### trading ready so companies can retain maximum 20 

### flexibility to secure least cost emissions 21 

### reductions. 22260

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### Furthermore, even in the context of a 1 

### Federal Plan, EPA should offer opportunities to 2 

### work in partnership with the state. For example, 3 

### EPA can allow a state to customize certain 4 

### modular elements of the Federal Plan so long as 5 

### it does not undermine environmental integrity. 6 

### In addition, EPA could allow a state to 7 

### carry out implementation an enforcement of the 8 

### Federal Plan. Moreover, a state should always 9 

### have the option to stop in and replace federal 10 

### control with an individualized state plan. 11

### We urge EPA to finalize its Clean Energy 12 

### Incentive Program, or CEIP. It is essential that 13 

### there are incentives for early action to reduce 14 

### carbon pollution before the 2022 start of the CPP 15 

### so that we can continue the progress America is 16 

### already making to address carbon pollution from 17 

### the power sector. 18

### We support EPA's commitment to design the 19 

### CEIP to encourage additional reductions and not 20 

### reduce program stringency. In addition, EPA 21 

### should take care in laying out its definition of 22261

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### low income efficiency supporting authentic 1 

### community engagement in CEIP design processes, 2 

### and providing appropriate technical guidance in 3 

### order to ensure that programs are judiciously 4 

### targeted and fully leveraged to benefit low 5 

### income communities. Thank you. 6 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. Ingrid Schwingler? 7 

### MS. SCHWINGLER: You actually got my last 8 

### name right. 9 

### MR. RUPP: Oh, good. Unlike with Malin. 10 

### You've got the whole table, but you still have 11 

### five minutes. 12


### MS. SCHWINGLER: Noted. 13

### Yes, I'm Ingrid Schwingler with Grid 14 

### Alternatives. That's I-N-G-R-I-D, 15


### S-C-H-W-I-N-G-L-E-R. 16

### I'm a Policy and Regulatory Coordinator 17 

### with Grid Alternatives. We are a -- the nation's 18 

### largest non-profit solar installer exclusively 19 

### serving low income families and affordable 20 

### housing owners through residential, multifamily, 21 

### and community shared solar installations, using a 22262

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### barn-raising installation model, grid trains and 1 

### leads teams of job trainees and other volunteers 2 

### to install solar electric systems in partnership 3 

### with a national network of affordable housing 4 

### developers, energy efficiency providers, local 5 

### government agencies, work force development 6 

### programs, and solar industry partners. 7 

### Since 2001 Grid has installed 6,000 solar 8 

### systems with a combined installed capacity of 9 

### 20.6 megawatts, saving 157 million in lifetime 10 

### electricity costs, preventing 457,000 tons of 11 

### greenhouse gas emissions, and providing over 12 

### 23,500 people with solar training. 13

### Working with policymakers, regulators, 14 

### and other stakeholders, Grid Alternatives had 15 

### proven that effective solutions can be developed 16 

### for greater adoption of renewable energy and low 17 

### income communities. 18

### The Clean Power Plan represents an 19 

### unprecedented opportunity to address the 20 

### environmental inequities in the most impacted 21 

### communities. The Federal Implementation Plan 22263

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### should take full advantage of this opportunity by 1 

### adopting policies, including low income solar 2 

### policies that make long term investments into 3 

### communities disproportionately burdened by 4 

### pollution and economic stress. 5 

### In the Clean Energy Incentive Program 6 

### Grid Alternatives notes low income solar programs 7 

### are not incentivized or treated differently from 8 

### general market solar programs, nor are low income 9 

### solar programs included in the energy efficiency 10 

### definition for low income communities. 11 

### Therefore, we strongly encourage the Federal Plan 12 

### and Model Rules to provide guidance to states and 13 

### encourage adoption of low income solar programs 14 

### specifically. 15

### The allowances created and any revenues 16 

### generated by the implementation of the Clean 17


### Power Plan should be used to ensure 18 

### disproportionately impacted communities receive 19 

### net economic and environmental benefits, 20 

### including through low income solar programs. 21

### Low income solar policies or programs 22264

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### within the Federal Implementation Plan, in 1 

### addition to any revenues committed to or 2 

### generated by such programs will maximize 3 

### environmental, social, and economic benefits in 4 

### impacted communities. 5 

### Low income solar programs expand access 6 

### to solar for everyone as well as increase the 7 

### benefits already received from strengthened 8 

### energy efficiency measures. The Federal Plan and 9 

### Model Rules will be utilized as a framework and 10 

### template across the nation. And we ask that you 11 

### promote low income solar in these models as the 12 

### already-proven and effective solution for greater 13 

### adoption of renewable energy in low income 14 

### communities. Thank you. 15

### MR. RUPP: Yes. Thank you very much. 16

### We are going to take a brief recess here 17 

### and come back in about five minutes. 18

### (Brief recess.) 19

### MR. RUPP: And if you could just say your 20 

### name and spell it for the record, and then just 21 

### to note that Chris will be keeping time here. 22265

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### When the light turns yellow, that will be at four 1 

### minutes, and they you'll have one more minute, 2 

### and the red light will go on at five minutes. 3 

### MS. ABEL: Okay. Terrific. 4 

### My name is Jennifer Abel. That's spelled 5 

### J-E-N-N-I-F-E-R; last name is A-B-E-L. 6 

### I'm a resident of Arlington, Virginia, 7 

### and I'm deeply concerned about the issue of 8 

### climate change. I think this is the most serious 9 

### issue that's affecting our planet today. And I'm 10 

### very encouraged and excited to see that the EPA 11 

### has taken action by proposing the Clean Power 12 

### Plan, and I urge swift implementation of the 13 

### plan. 14

### I actually just came from a gathering 15 

### just down the street at the Department of Justice 16 

### today where several groups assembled to present 17 

### more than 360,000 signed petitions to Loretta 18 

### Lynch at the Department of Justice, calling on 19 

### the DOJ to investigate Exxon for having known 20 

### decades ago about climate change and rather than 21 

### doing anything about it, deceiving the public. 22266

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### So I think there's -- there's a clear 1 

### knowledge among the scientific community and even 2 

### among the fossil fuel industry that climate 3 

### change is a real and pervasive, and threatening 4 

### issue that will threaten all sectors of life and 5 

### all facets of -- of life for people and for the 6 

### other inhabitants of our planet. And it's 7 

### something that we urgently need to address and 8


### need to focus on. And so for that reason I -- I 9 

### urge swift implementation, and even, if possible, 10 

### stronger -- stronger regulations than what have 11 

### been proposed. And I -- and I applaud the EPA 12 

### for -- for proposing these measures. 13

### Thank you for your time. 14

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 15

### Thanks for being here, Courtenay. And 16 

### just quickly, Chris Sherrhy here is managing 17 

### time. And so you will see you're afforded five 18 

### minutes. And so, at four minutes a yellow light 19 

### will shine. That indicates you've got one more 20 

### minute, and then the red light will indicate the 21 

### end of the five minutes. 22267

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### MS. LEWIS: Thank you. Well, thank you 1 

### so much for the opportunity to testify. 2 

### My name is Courtenay Lewis. That’s 3 

### C-O-U-R-T-E-N-A-Y, L-E-W-I-S. 4 

### I'm a dual British-American citizen. I 5 

### grew up in England, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, 6 

### and the U.S. I worked as an organizer on the 7 

### 2008 Obama campaign, and I proudly worked on the 8 

### Obama Administration at the Department of the 9 

### Interior. 10

### I now work at the Sierra Club, the oldest 11 

### and largest grassroots environmental organization 12 

### in the country. Thank you for this opportunity. 13

### This summer the Obama Administration and 14 

### the EPA finalized the Clean Power Plan. As 15 

### states consider how to design and implement these 16 

### rules, I'd like to speak a little bit about an 17 

### experience of mine as relates to climate change. 18

### A few years ago I earned a Masters Degree 19 

### in Environmental Change and Management from the 20 

### University of Oxford. As part of my research I 21 

### traveled to the District of Humla, Nepal, one of 22268

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### the rural districts of Nepal, where I studied the 1 

### health and environmental impacts of indoor 2 

### cooking devices. 3 

### While my research focused on the health 4 

### and environmental risks of indoor fires, it was 5 

### the rapidly changing climate that is most struck 6 

### with me. In Humla the temperatures were 7 

### extremely and atypically warm, and the monsoons 8 

### had been delayed for months. People's crops were 9 

### dying. Glacial melting from the Himalayas was 10 

### causing mountain flooding. Many people were 11 

### already living season-to-season, surviving on the 12 

### flood -- excuse me, surviving on the food they 13 

### grew outside their homes and the water that came 14 

### from the glaciers. That food and water was 15 

### diminishing. 16

### Parents in Humla told me their dream was 17 

### for their children to leave Humla because the 18 

### place where they, their parents, and their 19 

### grandparents had lived was becoming unfamiliar 20 

### and hostile. Their children may enter the 21 

### growing community of climate refugees. 22269

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### People in Humla are not responsible for 1 

### the climate crisis. In Humla there are no paved 2 

### roads, no cars, no coal fired power plants; yet 3 

### they are at the front lines of its impacts. And 4 

### the United States, one of the world's wealthiest 5 

### countries has a responsibility and the 6 

### opportunity to rapidly lower our emissions and to 7 

### demonstrate our commitment to confronting the 8 

### global climate crisis. 9 

### Implementing the Clean Power Plan is 10 

### critical. We must address the climate crisis in 11 

### ways that lower pollution impacting low community 12 

### and minority communities who have historically 13 

### borne the brunt of our fossil fuel dependency. 14 

### We must seek solutions that create jobs and 15 

### energy efficiency and in renewable energy 16 

### research development and manufacturing. 17

### Climate change and pollution from fossil 18 

### fuel use exacerbate problems that already plague 19 

### our country, like racial inequality, 20 

### environmental injustice, and lack of 21 

### manufacturing job opportunities. 22270

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### Implementing the Clean Power Plan, 1 

### combined with other policies will help us move 2 

### closer to a country that is more just and 3 

### equitable. It's time to say no to a system that 4 

### contributes to destabilizing the global climate, 5 

### creating climate refugees, while it sickens 6 

### communities in the U.S. 7 

### It's time to stop giving tens of billions 8 

### of dollars in fossil fuel subsidies to the 9 

### companies that are fueling the climate crisis 10 

### while also -- which also are some of the 11 

### wealthiest companies in the world. It's time for 12 

### members of Congress to stop pulling theatrical 13 

### stunts with snowballs that seek to delegitimize 14 

### this crisis. 15

### It's time to lead by example recognizing 16 

### that we have historically contributed 17 

### disproportionately to climate change. It's time 18


### for the Clean Power Plan to move forward to set a 19 

### precedent that the rest of our economy can 20


### follow. 21

### The window to act on climate change grows 22271

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### smaller every day. In two weeks world leaders 1 

### will gather in Paris, aiming to reach a climate 2 

### agreement that will set us on a path towards a 3 

### stable climate. It's time for us to lead in more 4 

### than creating climate emissions. 5 

### Implementing the Clean Power Plan at the 6 

### federal and state level is critical to showing 7 

### our commitment to fighting climate change and to 8 

### making our own country more equitable. Thank 9


### you. 10

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. 11

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. I'm ready. Okay. 12

### MR. RUPP: Welcome, Joe. And as with 13 

### Courtenay, I'll remind you that Chris is keeping 14 

### time here for your five minutes. The yellow 15 

### light will indicate you have one more minute, and 16 

### red will indicate that your five minutes is over. 17

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. Good. So when 18 

### you're ready to start. 19


### MR. RUPP: Please. 20

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. I am Joe Slovinec 21 

### of Washington, D.C. Kelsey Crane of the Sierra 22272

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### Club of Northern Virginia asked me to volunteer 1 

### to testify today, and I will please include my 2 

### statement in both your written records and oral 3 

### testimony. I could accept use of written records 4 

### or comments, and I have a last-minute addition 5 

### about Organizing for Action which I'd like to 6 

### explain a little later. I'm also a member of 7 

### their group, and they're for climate change. 8 

### MR. RUPP: Okay. 9


### MR. SLOVINEC: I have a chance -- there 10 

### were originally three documents that I support, 11 

### and I would want to ask your permission to add a 12


### fourth one. 13


### MR. RUPP: Please. 14

### MR. SLOVINEC: I support the -- that's 15 

### okay? 16


### MR. RUPP: Yes. 17

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay to add a fourth one? 18 

### Okay. Fourth one is okay. All right. Good. 19 

### Fourth is okay. 20

### Excuse me. I support the Clean Power 21 

### Plan in the first document, U.S. Environmental 22273

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### Protection Agency Clean Power Plan. It was 1 

### issued on August 3rd, 2015, with these goals: 2 

### air pollution reduction, reducing CO2

### emissions, 3 

### or carbon pollution from power plants, and it 4 

### says: Our most vulnerable citizens, including 5 

### children, older adults, people with heart or lung 6 

### disease, and people living in poverty may be most 7 

### at the risk for climate change. 8 

### In the second document I include a 9 

### newsletter of the Illinois Clean Coal Institute, 10 

### a partner of the Environmental Protection Agency 11 

### of the U.S. with work on removal of carbon 12 

### emissions. I hope you can understand me okay. 13

### And it has an ideological perspective 14 

### that could seek compromise with Senator 15 

### McConnell's website that indicated his no vote on 16 

### the Clean Power Plan was mainly to protect 17 

### Kentucky coal industries. 18

### The third document is Henry Henderson's 19 

### blog for the Natural Resources Defense Council, 20 

### Fighting for Carbon Cuts in Court: Illinois and 21 

### Chicago step up to defend Clean Power Plan. And 22274

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### he said, Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan 1 

### announced her office was joining with 17 other 2 

### states to defend the Clean Power Plan against a 3 

### series of wrong-headed legal challenges intent on 4 

### preventing the historic effort to cut dangerous 5 

### carbon pollution. 6 

### I included an Earth Justice statement on 7 

### Facebook, and I also read Chris Mooney's 8 

### Washington Post editorial of November 17th, 2015, 9 

### entitled, Amid record global temperatures, the 10


### Senate votes to block Obama's Clean Power Plan. 11 

### Illinois has needed compromise to both produce 12 

### coal and avoid bad air pollution in Chicago. 13

### Since you gave me permission to add 14 

### Item D -- the earlier ones are A, B, and C -- 15 

### this is from Organizing for Action. You can, you 16 

### know, tell me whether or not you've heard of it. 17 

### It's a 501(c)3 group that's designed to promote 18 

### President Obama's goals; and climate change is a 19 

### major goal of the group. So I want to give, you 20 

### know, encouragement to their involvement, but I 21 

### want -- I have a handwritten note saying, please 22275

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### add organization name, items in parentheses. I'm 1 

### quoting Sara El-Amine, my e-mail friend, who -- 2 

### Executive Director of Organizing for Action, who 3 

### wrote, quote: Religious leaders like Pope 4 

### Francis are insisting that there is a moral 5 

### obligation to address climate change. 6 

### In just two weeks more than 160 nations, 7 

### representing more than 90 percent of the world's 8 

### carbon pollution are joining together for an 9 

### international conference to tackle climate change 10 

### -- that's unquote. 11


### There are some obsolete references to the 12 

### Senate debate, and I'm not sure that you want to 13 

### include the Senators' names, so I thought it 14 

### would be easier for the Environmental Protection 15 

### Agency's Hatch Act or, you know, non-partisan 16 

### status to only include the items in parentheses. 17

### I remind everyone I also went on Facebook 18 

### to support a compromise that President has 19 

### proposed of Trans-Pacific Trade PAC where we 20 

### expect support from Senator McConnell and the new 21 

### Speaker Paul Ryan who deserves our 22276

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### congratulations. 1 

### I reminded them -- I attended members of 2 

### -- with meetings of the Calumet Community 3 

### Religious Conference in 1985 where my Riverdale 4 

### home was near President Obama's work on 5 

### developing a Communities Project and the -- and 6 

### his friendships with local activists like Hazel 7 

### Johnson who opposed toxic wastes. I hope for a 8 

### smooth transition after the resignation of 9 

### Speaker Boehner, who did a fine job on sponsoring 10 

### the September '15 visit of Pope Francis who spoke 11 

### well and moderately on climate change. Laudato 12 

### Si as his program to reduce carbon emissions to 13 

### Congress. I have that in another written text, 14 

### but my handwriting isn't super neat, so I don't 15


### want to add on too much. 16

### Maura Cowley of the Sierra Club persuaded 17 

### me to send messages to support goals of Pope 18 

### Francis before the Paris U.N. Conference. I pray 19 

### for its success, yet high security is needed. I 20 

### briefly recognize the visit November 2nd, 2015 of 21 

### Oscar Cardinal Rodriguez of Honduras to speak 22277

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### about Laudato Si and his leadership for climate 1 

### change to John Carr's group, The Initiative for 2 

### Catholic Social Thought and Public Life, yet I 3 

### will contact them soon to say that they should 4 

### work on their own publicity to the EPA. Thank 5


### you. 6 

### They're a Georgetown organization. I did 7 

### want to have a briefly amended written text to 8 

### include a few other issues I believe that I had 9 

### put some items in about the Congresswoman Tammy 10 

### Duckworth supporting the plan and somebody else 11 

### from the Laudato Si, the Pope's encyclical where 12 

### he supports more public transportation, you know, 13 

### urban planning goals. And he wanted more success 14 

### after the Rio Conference. 15

### So -- but I do want to maybe have a brief 16 

### written amendment to an e-mail cite -- 17

### MR. RUPP: Sir -- 18

### MR. SLOVINEC: -- and that will be about 19 

### it. It looks like you're about -- 20

### MR. RUPP: We are. We are at time, but 21 

### by all means, whatever you would like to submit 22278

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### in writing, you can do so at the registration 1


### desk. 2 

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. Now, do you want a 3 

### copy of the written statement? Should I hand it 4 

### to you or give it to the registration desk? 5


### MR. RUPP: You can leave that at the 6 

### registration desk. And we also -- you're able to 7 

### submit your comments online as well -- 8 

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. 9


### MR. RUPP: -- and all of that -- how to 10 

### do that is out on the registration desk. 11

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. Now, I'd like to 12 

### have your names if I could. Chris S-H-E-R-R-H-Y, 13 

### Mark Rupp, okay. Brian Fisher, okay. 14


### MR. FISHER: Yes. 15

### MR. SLOVINEC: That was a relaxed group. 16 

### Okay. Do you have any questions for me? 17

### MR. RUPP: No questions. 18

### MR. SLOVINEC: Have any of you ever heard 19 

### Organizing for Action before? 20


### MR. RUPP: I have. 21

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. 22279

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### MR. RUPP: Thank you for being here. 1 

### MR. SLOVINEC: Well, no, that's fine. It 2 

### was my pleasure, and it's very gracious of you. 3 

### I was surprised I could talk to you. Do you -- 4 

### do each of you work for the Environmental 5 

### Protection Agency? 6


### l MR. RUPP: We do. 7 

### MR. SLOVINEC: Okay. Mark Rupp, and 8 

### Brian -- Brian Fisher. Okay. Great. And you 9 

### tell me to see the registration desk for both 10 

### handing these in and getting instructions online. 11 

### Okay. 12

### I went to Columbia University around the 13 

### same time as President Obama, 1981, '82, with a 14 

### Master's Degree in International Affairs. I 15 

### think that that's about, you know, everything 16 

### that I wanted to say. 17


### MR. RUPP: Great. 18

### MR. SLOVINEC: Also, thank you. 19

### MR. RUPP: And the docket closes January 20 

### 21st, so you have a little time. 21

### MR. SLOVINEC: Oh, okay. Oh, that -- oh, 22280

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### that's great. Okay. Then let me ask my friends, 1 

### you know, if they want me to maybe add some 2 

### clarifications. 3 

### Okay. Good. Thank you, Mark. 4 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 5 

### MR. SLOVINEC: Thank you. Good luck to 6 

### everybody. Thank you. 7 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. I would like to 8 

### call up together Michele Roberts and Gary Rossi. 9 

### MS. ROBERTS: Hi. 10

### MR. RUPP: Hi, Michele. 11

### MR. RUPP: Hi. Gary Rossi? 12

### MR. ROSSI: Yes, I am. 13

### MR. RUPP: Terrific. Welcome. 14

### MR. ROSSI: Thank you very much. 15

### MR. RUPP: Michele, we'll start with you. 16 

### I'll remind the two of you that Chris is keeping 17 

### time here for the five minutes. When the light 18 

### turns yellow, that means four minutes have gone 19 

### by and you've got one more. The red light 20 

### indicates that the five minutes is up. 21

### And, Michele, we'll start with you when 22281

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### you're ready. If you could say your name, and 1 

### spell your name for the record, please. 2 

### MS. ROBERTS: Hi, good afternoon. My 3 

### name is Michele, M-I-C-H-E-L-E; Roberts, 4


### R-O-B-E-R-T-S. 5 

### Hey, Chris. 6 

### MR. SHERRHY: How you doing? 7 

### MS. ROBERTS: I'm sorry. I just had a 8 

### moment. Oh, my God, this is great. How are you? 9 

### Anyway, thank you. Wow. 10

### Greetings. Thank you for the opportunity 11 

### to provide public testimony today to the CPP. My 12 

### name is Michele L. Roberts, National Co13 

### Coordinator for the Environmental Justice Health 14 

### Alliance otherwise known as EJHA. 15

### The EJHA is a national collective of over 16 

### 30 fence line community grassroots groups and 17 

### some advocates located in approximately 13 18 

### states. Many, if not all, of the communities 19 

### experience egregious health disparities found to 20 

### be associated with the billions of pounds of 21 

### toxic chemicals spewing in their communities. 22282

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### In addition, many are the communities 1 

### vulnerable to the comprehensive catastrophic 2 

### effects of climate change. While we understand 3 

### and respect the Agency's intent to reduce carbon 4 

### pollution, address asthma and other respiratory 5 

### illnesses as well as heart diseases, and that the 6 

### CPP may serve as a foothold to get us in the door 7 

### of justice and protection, frankly, it is not 8 

### enough. 9 

### We recommend the following components be 10 

### included in the CPP in order to make it more 11 

### effective to meet the full human right to a 12 

### healthy and sustainable community for 13 

### environmental justice and vulnerable communities, 14 

### and effectively address the climate crisis. 15

### Number one, the CPP lacks the requirement 16 

### for states to have a state environmental justice 17 

### analysis. We need this requirement. 18

### Number two, we need and recommend 19 

### assessments that include projections on how state 20 

### implementation plans will affect the CO2

### emissions 21 

### and other co-pollutants of EGUs, otherwise known 22283

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### as power plants that are in EJ communities. 1 

### Number three, we need and recommend a 2 

### requirement for states to develop its State 3 

### Implementation Plan in a manner that results in 4 

### reduced emissions and co-pollutants in EJ 5 

### communities so that these communities will, in 6 

### effect, experience a reduction in environmental 7


### harm. 8 

### Number four, we need and recommend 9 

### effective environmental justice community 10 

### engagement that includes access to technical 11 

### resources and trainings as per identified by 12 

### communities. Instead of cap and trade, we 13 

### request EPA develop a plan that identifies plants 14 

### with the most EJ impact and regulate those 15 

### directly. In addition, we suggest these plants 16 

### should not be part of a carbon trading program. 17

### And last, the CPP needs to provide a 18 

### capacity building process for environmental 19 

### justice communities to fundamentally be at the 20 

### table. We request this process. 21

### And with that, thank you very much for 22284

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### being able to participate in this particular 1 

### hearing. 2 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 3 

### MS. ROBERTS: We will leave our comments 4 

### with whomever. 5 

### MR. RUPP: Great. At the registration 6


### desk. 7 

### MS. ROBERTS: Thank you so very much. 8 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 9 

### MS. ROBERTS: Chris, it was a pleasure, 10 

### and you look great, brother. You look great. 11


### MR. SHERRHY: Thanks. 12

### MS. ROBERTS: God is good. Have a 13 

### wonderful day. 14

### MR. SHERRHY: You, too. Thank you. 15

### MR. RUPP: Mr. Rossi. 16

### MR. ROSSI: Hi. Yes. My name is Gary, 17 

### G-A-R-Y; Rossi, R-O-S-S-I. And I'm a member of 18 

### several environmental protection groups, but I'm 19 

### basically here as a private citizen. 20

### Good afternoon. I am originally from 21 

### Rochester, New York, and moved to Washington, 22285

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### D.C., in November 1983. I currently reside at 1 

### 1706 New Jersey Avenue, N.W., here in Washington. 2 

### And I thank you for this opportunity to submit my 3


### comments. 4 

### I am here to speak in support of the 5


### EPA's Clean Power Plan and comment on the 6 

### Proposed Federal Implementation Plan. 7 

### Rochester, New York, is located on the 8 

### southern shore of Lake Ontario. I vividly 9 

### remember the huge snow banks that would line the 10 

### streets in the winter when I was growing up. 11 

### They were like mountain ranges with peaks that 12 

### were taller even than my dad. Thanksgivings were 13 

### often, but not always, white; and the ground was 14 

### always covered in snow at least through March and 15 

### often into April. 16

### When I left Rochester in 1983, the snows 17 

### were coming a little later, but Christmases were 18 

### still white, and the ground stayed covered 19 

### through the winter; but things aren't like that 20 

### up there anymore. 21

### For about the past decade or so I've gone 22286

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### back home for the holidays to find the ground 1 

### mostly bare. My friends and relatives tell me it 2 

### still snows sometimes and there are still storms, 3 

### but the winter-long deep snow cover is gone. 4 

### Something is broken. 5 

### My hometown is not the only place where 6 

### weather patterns are changing. Unprecedented 7 

### droughts, floods, and storms of historic 8 

### proportions are occurring all over the world. It 9 

### is my opinion that anyone who isn't frightened or 10 

### at least deeply concerned is in need of 11 

### awakening. 12

### We know that these changes are the direct 13


### result of the vast amounts of carbon -- of 14 

### greenhouse gases human beings have been pumping 15 

### into the atmosphere for generations now. But 16 

### with our entire civilization built on the use of 17 

### fossil fuels as our primary energy source, we 18 

### cannot stop this process overnight. We need 19 

### power every day, all the time, and it is the 20 

### fossil fuel fired power plants that are the 21 

### largest source of greenhouse gases. 22287

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### The EPA's clean power plan and the 1 

### proposed Federal Implementation Plan are a big 2 

### step forward in tackling this problem. The Clean 3 

### Power Plan will get the U.S. on track to cut 4 

### carbon pollution by 30 percent below 2005 levels 5 

### and in a little less than 15 years. 6 

### The plan also gives states the 7 

### flexibility they need to decide on and implement 8 

### the emission reduction measures that will work 9 

### most effectively for them. 10

### At the same time, under this plan, the 11 

### EPA will be able to issue a Federal 12 

### Implementation Plan for any state that is 13 

### unwilling or unable to take action on its own. 14 

### This will ensure a nationwide reduction in 15 

### greenhouse gas emissions. 16

### Taking the necessary steps to achieve the 17 

### goals stipulated in the Clean Power Plan will 18 

### also provide opportunities to invest in clean 19 

### energy. These investments will result in 20 

### significant job creation and a welcome boost to 21 

### state and local economies. Modernizing existing 22288

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### power plants and building clean energy systems 1 

### going forward will improve the quality of the air 2 

### we all breathe by greatly reducing ozone 3 

### emissions and particle pollution in the form of 4 

### soot and smog. 5 

### It is predicted that this will prevent up 6 

### to 150,000 asthma attacks and 6,600 premature 7 

### deaths by 2030. This is especially important for 8 

### families living in close proximity to the power 9 

### plants we currently depend on. 10

### I would like to point out that any costs 11 

### incurred in making these changes are actually an 12 

### investment in our future and are trivial compared 13 

### to the future costs of rising seas, catastrophic 14 

### weather events, unavoidable crop failures, and 15 

### poor air quality. 16

### And I am concerned about what pollution 17 

### and a changing climate will mean for Rochester 18 

### and the myriad farms and orchards in the 19 

### surrounding countryside. Just to the south of 20 

### the city in the Finger Lakes region there are 21 

### many vineyards and excellent wineries that could 22289

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### well be wiped out by unpredictable and extreme 1 

### weather. As it is now, the crisp, white, bright 2 

### winters that I remember so fondly are probably 3 

### gone forever. 4 

### The Clean Power Plan will not solve these 5 

### problems or prevent the coming changes all by 6 

### itself, but it's a very good start, and its 7 

### benefits will be fairly immediate. We need to 8 

### take these steps now. We cannot wait any longer. 9 

### The future of our world and all our homes is at 10


### stake. 11

### And thank you for this opportunity again 12 

### to comment. I appreciate it. 13

### MR. RUPP: Thanks. Shannon Heyck14 

### Williams. Welcome, Shannon. 15

### Chris is maintaining our five-minute 16


### clock here. 17

### MS. HEYCK-WILLIAMS: Okay. Should I 18 

### start with my name and -- my name is Shannon 19 

### Heyck-Williams. The last name is spelled 20 

### H-E-Y-C-K, hyphen, Williams, W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S. 21 

### And I am the Senior Manager for Climate and 22290

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### Energy Policy at the National Wildlife 1 

### Federation. 2 

### Thank you for the opportunity to present 3 

### comment today in support of a strong Federal Plan 4 

### from EPA to implement the Clean Power Plan. The 5 

### National Wildlife Federation is a voice for 6 

### wildlife dedicated to protecting wildlife and 7 

### habitat, and inspiring the future generation of 8 

### conservationists. 9 

### To this end we believe our nation's 10 

### wildlife, fish, healthy waters, clean air, and 11 

### public lands are a birthright of all Americans. 12 

### And government has a duty to conserve and steward 13 

### these public resources for all, including future 14 

### generations using the best available science and 15 

### providing robust financial resources. Protection 16 

### of our climate is one of these obligations. 17

### Climate change is already having a 18 

### negative impact on wildlife in their habitat. 19 

### Drought and wildfires are increasingly crippling 20 

### waterways in the western U.S. Warming rivers and 21 

### streams are becoming inhospitable for freshwater 22291

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### fish like trout in Appalachia and the southeast. 1 

### Moose in the northeast are plagued by a rise of 2 

### tick infestations. And sea level rise and 3 

### increasing ocean acidity are jeopardizing ocean 4 

### fisheries and coastal habitats. 5 

### Each of these changes not only impacts 6 

### wildlife but also our ability to sustain an 7 

### outdoor American heritage and preserve local 8 

### economies dependent on recreation, hunting, and 9 

### fishing. 10

### As a collective of organizations 11 

### representing sportsmen and women, outdoor 12 

### enthusiasts, and conservationists across the 13 

### nation, the National Wildlife Federation and its 14 

### members are deeply concerned about climate change 15 

### and support EPA's landmark Clean Power Plan to 16 

### curb carbon pollution by 32 percent by 2030 from 17 

### power plants. 18

### By transitioning from dirty energy 19 

### sources to cleaner sources of energy, the Clean 20 

### Power Plan will lessen climate stressors and will 21 

### also benefit wildlife by dramatically reducing 22292

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### other pollutants like acid rain, ground level 1 

### ozone and smog, toxic wastewater discharges, and 2 

### mercury pollution that has rendered many fish too 3 

### toxic to eat. 4 

### In order to achieve the maximum benefits 5 

### for wildlife, EPA must provide states a strong 6 

### Federal Plan that encourages wildlife-friendly 7 

### renewable energy, energy conservation, and 8 

### interstate cooperation. The proposed Federal 9 

### Implementation Plan is based on sound science and 10 

### promises to be an effective model for states 11 

### devising their own plans. The Federal Plan 12 

### should be finalized in a timely manner so that 13 

### states have time to use it and to guide the 14 

### formulation of their own plans. 15

### Importantly, the Federal Plan also serves 16 

### as a backstop for states that choose not to 17 

### devise their own plans. Under the Clean Power 18 

### Plan states have maximum flexibility to design a 19 

### cost effective way to reduce carbon pollution, 20 

### modernize their energy system, and create jobs in 21 

### the clean energy sector while protecting wildlife 22293

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### in the way that makes the most sense for them. 1 

### The National Wildlife Federation urges 2 

### each state to take this opportunity to craft its 3 

### own path to meeting pollution targets, one that 4 

### acknowledges that state's unique energy 5 

### investments, transmission capability, and local 6 

### environmental and health conditions. However, we 7 

### recognize that not all states will choose to do 8 

### so and stress the importance of a strong Federal 9


### Plan. 10

### The National Wildlife Federation thanks 11 

### you for your leadership and commends you for the 12 

### significant steps you have taken to protect 13 

### climate and wildlife and urges the Agency to move 14 

### swiftly to finalize a strong Federal 15 

### Implementation Plan for the Clean Power Plan. 16 

### Thank you. 17

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 18


### If I could have the next two folks come 19 

### up together, Jessica Papalia and Erica Wagner? 20

### MS. PAPALIA: Hello, and thank you for 21 

### listening to our concerns. My name is Jessica 22294

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### Papalia, spelled J-E-S-S-I-C-A, P-A-P-A-L-I-A. 1 

### I live in Washington, D.C. I'm a third 2 

### grade teacher at a public charter school here in 3 

### the city. Most of my students come from low 4 

### income families who live here in our city. 5 

### Research shows that higher levels of air 6 

### pollution results in higher rates of asthma, a 7 

### fact that has a disproportionate impact on 8 

### families in low income communities where a higher 9 

### number of power plants are located. 10

### This fact may seem rather abstract when 11 

### looking at it on paper. I'm here to tell you 12 

### what this impact looks like on the ground. It 13 

### looks like an 8-year old crying to you because 14 

### they cannot go outside to play for days on end 15 

### when it is too hot, or too cold, or there's too 16 

### much pollen, or there is an air quality report 17


### for the D.C. Metro area that affects them because 18 

### of their asthma. 19

### It looks like daily coughing attacks in 20 

### the classroom that has a 7-year-old rushing to 21 

### the nurse to receive medication. It looks like a 22295

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### 9-year old that consistently misses school every 1 

### single year of their academic career because of 2 

### severe asthma attacks that they need to recover 3 

### from, resulting in low academic achievement in 4


### all areas. 5 

### Let me tell you about one student who's 6 

### in my class this year. She's 8-years old. She 7 

### has severe asthma. Her asthma is so severe that 8 

### she frequently misses school because of asthma 9 

### attacks. However, until a few weeks ago, due to 10 

### her family's economic situation her family's 11 

### health insurance coverage did not allow her to 12 

### access the medication required to treat her 13 

### asthma. She, therefore, cannot live the life of 14 

### an 8-year-old. 15


### The school nurse had to send her to the 16 

### emergency room due to her severe symptoms of 17 

### poorly controlled asthma. She is consistently 18 

### tardy because she walks a long distance to the 19 

### public bus stop that takes her to our school. 20 

### Her brothers are afraid to make her walk quickly 21


### because of her asthma attacks. She has to take 22296

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### frequent stops just to walk distance to the bus 1 

### stop every day. 2 

### She sees the nurse multiple times a day 3 

### to receive medication, and she frequently is not 4 

### allowed to go outside for recess or go to gym 5 

### class. She as frequent coughing fits in the 6 

### classroom and has to see the nurse right away to 7 

### receive medication. 8 

### The combination of all this missed class 9 

### time over the years of her schooling has resulted 10 

### in the student performing below grade level in 11 

### all academic areas. 12

### Let me tell you about another student who 13 

### was in my class last year. He's now 9 years old. 14 

### He has severe asthma. In fact, his asthma is so 15 

### severe that he has a machine in his room to 16 

### assist him with breathing at night. 17

### He is an extremely active, athletic kid, 18 

### but he needs to stop playing sports or leave gym 19 

### class frequently to get medication from the nurse 20 

### for his asthma. When he has a severe asthma 21 

### attack, which is every few weeks, he misses a day 22297

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### or two of school until he is fully recovered. 1 

### He also goes on an additional daily 2 

### asthma medication for at least a week after each 3 

### attack. With side effects of increased body 4 

### movement and jitters, making it difficult for him 5 

### to focus on academics. He is constantly thirsty 6 

### when on this medication and frequently feels 7 

### uncomfortable or sick. 8 

### After years of missed class time and 9 

### difficulty focusing on academics when on his 10 

### asthma medication, the student is below grade 11 

### level in all academic areas. 12

### The Clean Power Plan will cut carbon 13 

### pollution from the power sector by 30 percent by 14 

### 2030 which will result in lower rates of asthma 15 

### in the low income communities living near power 16 

### plants. This reduced exposure to particle 17 

### pollution will help us avoid a projected 140,000 18 

### to 150,000 asthma attacks in children and avoid 19 

### 470 to 490,000 missed school and work days. 20

### If we are in a country that believes in 21 

### liberty, equality, and justice for all, we cannot 22298

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### allow for low income children to continue to bear 1 

### the brunt of our inaction on climate change and 2 

### air pollution. 3 

### Our actions as a nation and how we choose 4 

### to implement the Clean Power Plan will directly 5 

### impact their health, their education, and their 6


### future. 7 

### In order for this to occur, I urge the 8 

### EPA to ensure the carbon pollution standards in 9 

### the Model Federal Plan achieve the pollution 10 

### reductions promised in the Final Clean Power Plan 11 

### or even further reductions and ensure that the 12 

### Model Federal Plan protects and benefits low 13 

### income and indigenous communities that have long 14 

### borne the brunt of fossil fuel pollution and may 15 

### be most likely to experience the impacts of 16 

### climate change. 17

### Thank you for hearing my concerns. 18

### MS. WAGNER: Hello. My name is Erica 19 

### Wagner with a C. And yes, that's W-A-G-N-E-R, 20 

### Wagner. 21

### Thank you again for hearing our concerns 22299

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### and -- really worry about the future of the kids 1 

### I work with as well as my own future. There has 2 

### been a dramatic increase in the number of severe 3 

### storms in recent years, and it's such that the 4 

### Pentagon has designated climate change an urgent 5 

### and growing threat to our national security. I 6 

### expect you've read that report. So I don't need 7 

### to cite it all for you. 8 

### You've may also be aware of the trends, 9 

### but just in case, I find it interesting that my 10 

### maternal grandmother was born in India and lived 11 

### there until about 1942 when she was 24, but she 12 

### never even heard the word tornado in all that 13 

### time which seems odd to me if she -- if there had 14 

### been tornados at 24, she would have heard of 15 

### them, right? 16

### So also rising sea levels, more 17 

### hurricanes, more typhoons, more tornados -- all 18 

### of these will make many acres either 19 

### uninhabitable or prohibitively expensive for most 20 

### people. The people who used to live there will 21 

### have to find somewhere else to live. 22300

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### Moreover, the world's population is 1 

### expected to increase significantly in coming 2 

### years. If we don't take drastic measures, and 3 

### soon, it will be impossible to house and feed 4


### everyone. 5 

### Ocean acidification, of course, will 6 

### worsen and considering that you have to have many 7 

### fish stocks are already in decline or collapsing, 8 

### the people who rely on them to eat and to sell 9 

### will have to find something else. 10

### Similarly, agriculture will that be 11 

### affected? And what are we going to do? I can't 12 

### imagine that the climate change deniers will ever 13 

### see reason if Bjorn Lomborg -- conversion didn't 14 

### convince them. Do you remember Bjorn Lomborg? 15 

### He was -- he called himself the skeptical 16 

### environmentalist and expressed skepticism of 17 

### climate change. I believe he considered himself 18 

### a scientist. I don't remember anything about his 19 

### qualifications. 20

### In any case (pause) -- well, thank you 21 

### for listening to our concerns. I believe we said 22301

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### that four times now. 1 

### MR. RUPP: Thank you very much. And if 2 

### you have written comments, please leave them at 3 

### the registration desk. 4 

### MS. WAGNER: Thank you. 5 

### MR. RUPP: Our next panel will consist of 6 

### David O'Leary and Tim Harlan-Marks. 7 

### Thanks for being here. Just a reminder 8 

### that we're allowing five minutes of public 9 

### testimony. And you can keep track over here 10 

### where the green light will take you through the 11 

### first four minutes. Then the yellow light will 12 

### go on, letting you know that you've got one 13 

### minute left. 14

### MR. O'LEARY: Good afternoon. My name is 15 

### David O'Leary, O apostrophe-L-E-A-R-Y. I live in 16 

### Takoma Park, Maryland, and I'm here to speak in 17 

### favor of the -- of the proposed rule. I'll keep 18 

### it even to under one minute probably. 19

### Basically, this process has been going on 20 

### for many years already, as I'm sure you know, in 21 

### various forms to regulate global warming 22302

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### emissions and -- and pollution. And I look 1 

### forward to seeing this finally implemented as -- 2 

### as it's been drafted. So I guess that's all I 3 

### really have to say. 4 

### Just, please proceed -- proceed ahead. 5


### Thanks. 6 

### MR. HARLAN-MARKS: Hi there. 7


### MR. RUPP: Hello. 8 

### MR. HARLAN-MARKS: Thanks for hearing my 9 

### testimony. My name is Tim Harlan-Marks. I'm 10 

### from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Do you want me to 11 

### spell my name? 12


### MR. RUPP: Please. 13

### MR. HARLAN-MARKS: So the first name is 14 

### Tim, T-I-M; last name Harlan, H-A-R-L-A-N, 15 

### hyphen-M-A-R-K-S. And again, I'm from 16 

### Minneapolis. 17

### And I remember in the -- in the early 18 

### nineties when I was in elementary school first 19 

### hearing about climate change or, as we called it, 20 

### global warming back then, from a science teacher, 21 

### actually. And it was pretty bold of him to share 22303

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### this with a group of 8 or 9-year-olds, but I 1 

### appreciate his willingness to be frank with us. 2 

### I remember him describing a future world 3 

### that was really scary to me as a child, one in 4 

### which animals that I really loved might go 5 

### extinct and one in which extreme weather would 6 

### put my family and other families at risk, maybe 7 

### creating a planet that -- that none of us could 8 

### even survive in, let alone thrive. 9 

### And I remember being really afraid. You 10 

### know, I'm from Minnesota. We were no strangers 11 

### to tornados. I could imagine a gigantic tornado 12 

### ripping through my neighborhood and taking away 13 

### everything that -- that I had grown up knowing 14 

### and relying on for support and security. 15

### But I remember I talked to my teacher. I 16 

### talked to my parents and they said, you know, 17 

### it's normal to be afraid. This is something to 18 

### be afraid of, but there's time. And there are 19 

### other people paying attention. There are steps 20 

### we can take and -- and if you're hearing this, 21 

### the leaders of our country are hearing this, too; 22304

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### and there's actions that they can take. And so, 1 

### that is the moment when I started paying 2 

### attention, and I started looking for signs that 3 

### the leaders of my country were paying attention 4 

### and were taking action. And I kept watching us 5 

### kick the can down the road, and down the road, 6 

### and down the road, and suddenly it's the very 7 

### frightening future scenario that was presented to 8 

### me is a very striking current reality. 9 

### In 2011 a gigantic super tornado did rip 10 

### through my neighborhood in North Minneapolis, 11 

### just narrowing missing the home that I grew up 12 

### in. The past two winters we've had polar 13 

### vortexes that have literally caused people to die 14 

### in the streets of our very cold town. 15

### And it's not just my community or my 16 

### family. One of my best friends is from Ethiopia. 17 

### He tells me about how his family has farmed the 18 

### same land for generations and is now being forced 19 

### to migrate to the city because that land is no 20 

### longer farmable. 21

### So, this -- this administration has done 22305

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### more than any other. I want to -- I want to 1 

### thank the EPA for your -- for its role in that 2 

### and I want to speak strongly in support of the 3 

### Clean Power Plan and also comment on the proposed 4 

### Federal Implementation Plan. 5 

### So this -- we have an opportunity to do 6 

### something really big, but to do it big, we need 7 

### to get it right. And part of the key to that is 8 

### getting the Federal Implementation Plan to be as 9 

### strong and just as possible to make sure that the 10 

### Federal Implementation Plan that's adopted 11 

### ensures the carbon pollution standards -- I'm 12 

### sorry. It's important that in the model that the 13 

### carbon pollution standards achieve the pollution 14 

### reductions promised in the Final Clean Power 15 

### Plan, of for that matter even further reductions. 16

### It's important that -- ensure states 17 

### address potential carbon pollution from new power 18 

### plants to achieve overall electric sector 19 

### reductions in carbon pollution, protect low 20 

### income consumers by maximizing utilities' 21 

### incentives to invest in energy efficiency, ensure 22306

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### that the Model Federal Plan protects and benefits 1 

### minority, low income, and indigenous communities 2 

### which we know have long borne the brunt of fossil 3 

### fuel pollution as well as the -- not only the 4 

### carbon pollution but also the -- the dirty air 5 

### and then the impacts on public health from that. 6 

### And also, we need to resist give-aways of 7 

### allowances to the most polluting sources. 8 

### So, I appreciate the time to testify. 9 

### This is an issue that literally keeps me up at 10 

### night. I'm grateful that there is something 11 

### being done in this moment that can chip away at 12 

### this very big, very real problem. And again, 13 

### thank you for your time. 14

### MR. RUPP: Thank you. 15

### We are at the end of this particular 16 

### session. I think that there is going to be a 17 

### 6:00 o'clock to -- no, this is it. This wraps 18 

### the hearing here in Washington, D.C. 19

### For folks who have more that they want to 20 

### say, the docket is open through January 21st of 21 

### 2016. So please feel free to find information at 22307

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### the registration desk for how you can submit 1 

### additional comments or comments not yet made. 2 

### I really want to thank the court reporter 3 

### for his time today and my colleagues Chris and 4 

### Brian as well as Allen and all the folks helping 5 

### out at the registration desk. 6 

### And that concludes this evening's 7 

### hearing. Thank you. 8 

### (The hearing was adjourned at 5:02 9 

### o'clock p.m.) 10

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