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91–743 PDF 2015

H.R. 3099, ‘‘GULF OF MEXICO 

RED SNAPPER CONSERVATION ACT OF 2013’’ 

LEGISLATIVE HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON FISHERIES, WILDLIFE, 

OCEANS AND INSULAR AFFAIRS 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

Thursday, December 4, 2014 

Serial No. 113–92 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

or 

Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES 

DOC HASTINGS, WA, Chairman 

PETER A. DEFAZIO, OR, Ranking Democratic Member 

Don Young, AK 

Louie Gohmert, TX 

Rob Bishop, UT 

Doug Lamborn, CO 

Robert J. Wittman, VA 

Paul C. Broun, GA 

John Fleming, LA 

Tom McClintock, CA 

Glenn Thompson, PA 

Cynthia M. Lummis, WY 

Dan Benishek, MI 

Jeff Duncan, SC 

Scott R. Tipton, CO 

Paul A. Gosar, AZ 

Rau ́l R. Labrador, ID 

Steve Southerland, II, FL 

Bill Flores, TX 

Jon Runyan, NJ 

Markwayne Mullin, OK 

Steve Daines, MT 

Kevin Cramer, ND 

Doug LaMalfa, CA 

Jason T. Smith, MO 

Vance M. McAllister, LA 

Bradley Byrne, AL 

Eni F. H. Faleomavaega, AS 

Frank Pallone, Jr., NJ 

Grace F. Napolitano, CA 

Rush Holt, NJ 

Rau ́l M. Grijalva, AZ 

Madeleine Z. Bordallo, GU 

Jim Costa, CA 

Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, CNMI 

Niki Tsongas, MA 

Pedro R. Pierluisi, PR 

Colleen W. Hanabusa, HI 

Tony Ca ́ rdenas, CA 

Jared Huffman, CA 

Raul Ruiz, CA 

Carol Shea-Porter, NH 

Alan S. Lowenthal, CA 

Joe Garcia, FL 

Matt Cartwright, PA 

Katherine M. Clark, MA 

Vacancy 

Todd Young, Chief of Staff 

Lisa Pittman, Chief Legislative Counsel 

Penny Dodge, Democratic Staff Director 

David Watkins, Democratic Chief Counsel 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON FISHERIES, WILDLIFE, OCEANS 

AND INSULAR AFFAIRS 

JOHN FLEMING, LA, Chairman 

GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, CNMI, Ranking Democratic Member 

Don Young, AK 

Robert J. Wittman, VA 

Glenn Thompson, PA 

Jeff Duncan, SC 

Steve Southerland, II, FL 

Bill Flores, TX 

Jon Runyan, NJ 

Vance M. McAllister, LA 

Bradley Byrne, AL 

Doc Hastings, WA, ex officio 

Eni F. H. Faleomavaega, AS 

Frank Pallone, Jr., NJ 

Madeleine Z. Bordallo, GU 

Pedro R. Pierluisi, PR 

Carol Shea-Porter, NH 

Alan S. Lowenthal, CA 

Joe Garcia, FL 

Peter A. DeFazio, OR, ex officio 

(III) 

CONTENTS 

Page 

Hearing held on Thursday, December 4, 2014 ...................................................... 1 

Statement of Members: 

Fleming, Hon. John, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Louisiana ....................................................................................................... 1 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 3 

Miller, Hon. Jeff, a Representative in Congress from the State of Florida . 5 

Sablan, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho, a Representative in Congress from 

the Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands ..................................... 4 

Statement of Witnesses: 

Barham, Honorable Robert J., Secretary, Louisiana Department of 

Wildlife and Fisheries ................................................................................... 12 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 13 

Blankenship, Christopher, Director, Marine Resources Division, Alabama 

Department of Conservation and Natural Resources ................................ 15 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 17 

Cresson, David A., President and CEO, Louisiana Chapter of Coastal 

Conservation Association ............................................................................. 34 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 35 

Gill, Bob, Board Member, Gulf Seafood Institute .......................................... 36 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 38 

Green, Captain Jim, Vice President, Destin Charter Boat Association, 

Gulf of Mexico Charter Fisherman .............................................................. 42 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 44 

Pearce, Harlon, Owner, Harlon’s LA Fish, Kenner, Louisiana ..................... 45 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 47 

Rauch, Samuel D., III, Deputy Assistant Administrator for Regulatory 

Programs, National Marine Fisheries Service, National Oceanic and 

Atmospheric Administration ........................................................................ 6 

Prepared statement of ............................................................................... 8 

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record: 

American Sportfishing Association, Mike Leonard, Ocean Resource Policy 

Director, December 2, 2014 Letter submitted for the record in support 

of H.R. 3099 ................................................................................................... 61 

Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation, Jeff Crane, President, December 

1, 2014 Letter submitted for the record in support of H.R. 3099 ............. 61 

Group of Commercial Fishermen, December 3, 2014 Letter submitted 

for the record in opposition of H.R. 3099 .................................................... 62 

List of documents submitted for the record retained in the Committee’s 

official files .................................................................................................... 63 

(1) 

LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON H.R. 3099, TO PROVIDE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FISHERY MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THE GULF 

OF MEXICO RED SNAPPER, AND FOR 

OTHER PURPOSES, ‘‘GULF OF MEXICO RED 

SNAPPER CONSERVATION ACT OF 2013’’ 

Thursday, December 4, 2014 

U.S. House of Representatives 

Subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife, Oceans and Insular Affairs 

Committee on Natural Resources 

Washington, DC 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in room 

1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. John Fleming [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Fleming, Duncan, Southerland, Byrne, 

Sablan, and Garcia. 

Also present: Representative Jolly. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JOHN FLEMING, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 

Mr. FLEMING. The subcommittee will come to order. The Chairman notes the presence of a quorum. 

Good morning. Today the subcommittee will conduct a hearing 

on H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act of 

2013. 

As I am sure everyone in this room will agree, the Gulf of Mexico 

Red Snapper fishery is a mess. This is a fishery that is an economic 

driver for many coastal communities. It is a very popular sport fish 

for recreational fishermen and supports a valuable commercial fishery. In fact, this fishery once supported a 180-day recreational 

season, and while it is currently under a rebuilding plan, both fishermen and NOAA agree that the fishery is rebuilding beyond 

expectations. 

Despite this rebuilding success, the recreational seasons have 

been dramatically shortened, leading to only a 9-day season in 

2014. This increasingly shortened recreational season has had serious consequences for our coastal communities and, in particular, 

for recreational fishermen. I can certainly understand how recreational fishermen are frustrated. We have a stock survey system 

that appears to ignore key areas where red snapper are known to 

live, and we have a recreational data collection program that not 

only doesn’t work but is now going to undergo yet another revision. 

As we have heard at a number of hearings on this reauthorization of the Magnuson-Stevens Act, the Federal recreational data 

collections program has been repeatedly called into question. Two 

states now have undertaken their own recreational data collection 

2 

programs, and both have been able to collect more accurate information and have highlighted the shortcomings in the Federal recreational data collection program. 

Added to that mix we had a court ruling calling into question 

some of the basic provisions of the Federal fishery management 

system. With this as a backdrop, I want to thank Congressman 

Miller for his legislation that attempts to address these problems. 

I know H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation 

Act of 2013, has raised some concerns within the various sectors 

of the Gulf of Mexico fishery industry, and I know we will hear 

some of these concerns today, but I am glad this legislation will 

allow us to have this dialog. Hopefully, it will lead to some creative 

solutions. 

H.R. 3099 would transfer management of the red snapper fishery from the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council to the 

Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission. Supporters of this legislation have cited several examples of other fisheries that have benefited from moving them from Federal management to state 

management. 

As you know, many of the members of this committee support 

the notion that states can manage their natural resources more effectively than the Federal Government can. However, there are a 

number of issues that will probably be raised here today that we 

need to consider. 

One of the most perplexing will be the question of how we fund 

this new authority for the Commission. 

A second concern is whether the Commission will be susceptible 

to an increase in lawsuits. 

And a third is how the Gulf states and the Federal Government 

will enforce a new management regime. 

These are concerns that we must be aware of, but through the 

hearings we have held in the past, it is clear that there needs to 

be more flexibility in how states can manage red snapper, and it 

is clear that the Gulf states need to be more actively involved in 

the management. 

The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council has been debating several amendments to the Reef Fish Fishery Management 

Plan to deal specifically with red snapper issues. The Council recently adopted a controversial sector separation plan that will split 

the recreational sector into a for-hire component and a private 

angle component. 

The Council is also debating a plan to reallocate fish from the 

commercial sector to the recreational sector. 

Finally, and probably most important to the discussion today, the 

Council is working on a regional management scheme that will 

give each of the Gulf states the ability to manage red snapper within state waters in a way that benefits their fishermen. I suspect 

some of today’s witnesses will give us more information on these 

amendments and how they relate to the legislation before us. 

As Members know, this is not the first hearing we have held on 

these issues and will likely not be the last hearing on how to improve the management of this important fishery. 

3 

I am now pleased to recognize the Ranking Member, the distinguished gentleman from the Commonwealth of Northern Mariana 

Islands for any statement he would like to make. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Fleming follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF THE HON. JOHN FLEMING, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON

FISHERIES, WILDLIFE, OCEANS AND INSULAR AFFAIRS

Good morning. Today, the subcommittee will conduct a hearing on H.R. 3099, the 

Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act of 2013. 

As I’m sure everyone in this room will agree, the Gulf of Mexico red snapper 

fishery is a mess. 

This is a fishery that is an economic driver for many coastal communities, is a 

very popular sport fish for recreational fishermen, and supports a valuable commercial fishery. In fact, this fishery once supported a l80-day recreational season and, 

while it is currently under a rebuilding plan, both fishermen and NOAA agree that 

the fishery is rebuilding beyond expectations. Despite this rebuilding success, the 

recreational seasons have been drastically shortened—leading to only a 9-day season 

in 2014. This increasingly shortened recreational season has had serious consequences for our coast communities and in particular for recreational fishermen. 

I can certainly understand how recreational fishermen are frustrated. We have a 

stock survey system that appears to ignore key areas where red snapper are known 

to live and we have a recreational data collection program that not only doesn’t 

work, but is now going to undergo yet another revision. 

As we have heard at a number of hearings on the reauthorization of the 

Magnuson-Stevens Act, the Federal recreational data collection program has been 

repeatedly called into question. Two states have now undertaken their own recreational data collection programs and both have been able to collect more accurate 

information and have highlighted the shortcomings in the Federal recreational data 

collection program. 

Added to that mix, we have had a court ruling calling into question some of the 

basic provisions of the Federal fishery management system. 

With this as a backdrop, I want to thank Congressman Miller for his legislation 

that attempts to address these problems. I know H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red 

Snapper Conservation Act of 20l3, has raised some concerns within the various sectors of the Gulf of Mexico fishing industry, and I know we will hear some of those 

concerns today, but I am glad this legislation will allow us to have this dialog. 

Hopefully it will lead to some creative solutions. 

H.R. 3099 would transfer management of the red snapper fishery from the Gulf 

of Mexico Fishery Management Council to the Gulf States Marine Fisheries 

Commission. Supporters of the legislation have cited several examples of other fisheries that have benefited from moving them from Federal management to state 

management. As you know, many of the members of this committee support the notion that states can manage their natural resources more effectively than the 

Federal Government can. 

However, there are a number of issues that will probably be raised here today 

that we need to consider. One of the most perplexing will be the question of how 

we fund this new authority for the Commission. A second concern is whether the 

Commission will be susceptible to an increase in lawsuits. And a third is how the 

Gulf states and the Federal Government will enforce a new management regime. 

These are concerns that we must be aware of, but through the hearings we have 

held in the past, it is clear that there needs to be more flexibility in how states can 

manage red snapper and it is clear that the Gulf states need to be more actively 

involved in the management. 

The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council has been debating several 

amendments to the Reef Fish Fishery Management Plan to deal specifically with 

red snapper issues. The Council recently adopted a controversial sector separation 

plan that will split the recreational sector into a for-hire component and a private 

angle component. The Council is also debating a plan to reallocate fish from the 

commercial sector to the recreational sector. Finally, and probably most important 

to the discussion today, the Council is working on a regional management scheme 

that will give each of the Gulf states the ability to manage red snapper within state 

waters in a way that benefits their fishermen. I suspect some of today’s witnesses 

will give us more information on these amendments and how they relate to the legislation before us. 

4 

As Members know, this is not the first hearing we have held on these issues and 

will likely not be the last hearing on how to improve the management of this important fishery. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO 

SABLAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE 

COMMONWEALTH OF NORTHERN MARIANA ISLANDS 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I would 

like to also note that you are correct; this has been a series of hearings we have had on red snappers. So I am beginning to be much 

more well informed about it, and I actually told my staff if we have 

one more hearing for red snapper, and then Mr. Miller’s bill came 

up, and I said that is all right. It is Mr. Miller’s bill. So we will 

spend time. 

But the bill attempts to actually have Congress provide for the 

development of a fisheries management plan for the Gulf of Mexico 

red snapper, and as I understand it, the Magnuson-Stevens Act established the regional councils to prevent politicians in Washington 

from dictating how local fisheries are managed. It seems that we 

are considering a bill that would replace the judgment of fishery 

stakeholders for that of the House of Representatives. 

We have heard a lot about the difficulties faced by red snapper 

fishermen in the Gulf of Mexico this Congress, and I am sympathetic to the frustration felt by anglers who have seen recreational 

seasons shortened while the stock shows early signs of recovery. 

Unfortunately, unrestricted access, increasing fishing pressure, and 

skyrocketing harvest rates in the recreational fisheries have slowed 

this recovery and risk a return to the severe overfishing that ended 

just 5 years ago. 

So it is important to remember that the Gulf red snapper fishery 

is only 10 years into a 27-year rebuilding plan, and the most recent 

stock assessment data indicates that the spawning potential is still 

only 10 percent, which is less than half of the rebuilt target of 

26 percent. So, while there are signs that the rebuilding plan is 

working, there is still a long way to go before this stock is healthy. 

In the meantime, the Gulf Council is already taking steps to 

improve access and accountability in the recreational sector. This 

includes taking final action on a provisional separation of the recreational sector into for-hire and private angler components to 

allow for greater flexibility in how the quota is managed. 

In addition, at its January meeting, the Council will be 

considering the final action on Amendment 39 to the Reef Fish 

Management Plan, which explores a range of options for implementing regional management for the recreational harvest of red 

snapper, including delegating limited management authority to the 

Gulf states to establish individual size limits, bag limits, seasons, 

and area closures in Federal waters. 

I am interested to learn what our expert witnesses think about 

the Council’s recent efforts and to hear their ideas for other management action that should be taken to rebuild the stock, improve 

accountability, and ensure equitable access in the recreational 

fishery. 

5 

And I want to thank all of you for joining us this morning, and 

I look forward to hearing from the witnesses. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. 

Mr. FLEMING. The Ranking Member yields back. 

At this time, I would like to ask unanimous consent that the gentleman from Florida, Congressman David Jolly be allowed to sit 

with this subcommittee and participate in the hearing. 

Hearing no objections, so ordered. 

We will now hear from our first panel, the author of H.R. 3099, 

Congressman Jeff Miller, our friend and colleague from the First 

District of Florida. 

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JEFF MILLER, A REPRESENTATIVE 

IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. MILLER. Thank the Chairman and the Ranking Member, and 

I do thank all the members of the subcommittee for holding this 

hearing this morning. I appreciate the chance to appear before you 

today on what I, and many of my constituents who continue to 

voice their concerns, consider to be been an issue of critical importance, and that is the management of the Gulf red snapper. 

With the fishery more robust than it ever has been before, one 

would think that private anglers and the for-hire businesses would 

be elated with the overall management of the resource, but we all 

know that that is just simply not the case. 

As a result of the current Federal management of Gulf red snapper, we witnessed, as has already been stated, lawsuit after lawsuit 

while anglers continue to be hit with the shortest recreational seasons on record. 

Furthermore, the failed management has done significant economic harm to communities along the Gulf Coast who rely on the 

billions of dollars that anglers spend on an annual basis. As a result, I continually hear from stakeholders in my district and across 

the Gulf Coast who justifiably call for reforms to the Gulf Red 

Snapper Management Program. 

Now, by simply continuing to shorten the Federal season for the 

recreational sector, which, in Florida, was 9 days this year, without 

addressing the failed management of the fishery, the Federal 

Government continues to kick the can down the road at the expense—really, the expense of the entire angling community, tragically affecting the livelihoods in coastal communities that depend 

on the fishery. 

Along with 20 bipartisan colleagues, I introduced H.R. 3099, the 

Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act, because I believe 

that congressional action is needed to chart a new course for management of Gulf red snapper for the betterment of the commercial 

and recreational fisheries and the entire economic region. I believe 

that placing stewardship of this important resource in the hands 

of state authorities who are best positioned to collaborate with local 

stakeholders to institute a successful management plan that works 

for Gulf Coast residents, anglers and the red snapper alike, is, at 

the very least, a step in the right direction. 

While some here may not agree with certain provisions of this 

bill, I do hope that we can all agree on the fact that something 

6 

must be done to address the valid concerns that have been raised 

by many along the Gulf Coast. 

I, again, offer my thanks to the Chairman and the Ranking 

Member, all the members of this committee and those that are not 

on this subcommittee that have come here today to highlight the 

importance of this particular issue. This is a discussion that has to 

take place, and it is my hope that today’s hearing on H.R. 3099 

will yield positive results and underscore the urgent need for a 

change in Gulf red snapper management. 

With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Mr. FLEMING. Well, we thank you, Mr. Miller. And we know that 

you have plenty of duties apart from your time here. So we will 

certainly excuse you for the remainder of the hearing, unless you 

would like to stay, we would be glad to have you. 

Also a note, we expect a vote probably in the next 15 minutes. 

So we will try to get through our second panel testimony, and that 

way we will be able to return for questions. 

So thank you, Mr. Miller. 

Mr. MILLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. FLEMING. We will ask the second panel to step forward. 

We are now ready for our second panel, which includes Mr. 

Samuel D. Rauch III, Deputy Assistant Administrator for 

Regulatory Programs, National Marine Fisheries Service, National 

Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; The Honorable Robert J. 

Barham, Secretary of the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and 

Fisheries; and Mr. Christopher Blankenship, Director of Marine 

Resources Division, Alabama Department of Conservation and 

Natural Resources. 

Your testimony will appear in full in the hearing record, so I ask 

that you keep your oral statements to 5 minutes, as outlined in our 

invitation letter to you under Committee Rule 4(a). Our microphones are not automatic, so please press the button and be sure 

the tip is close to your mouth, and the way the lights work, you 

all are pretty experienced at this, I am sure, but, basically, you are 

under a green light for the first 4 minutes. Then it turns yellow, 

and then when it turns red at the end of 5 minutes, we ask that 

you quickly finish your statement so we can move on. We have 

plenty to cover here today and a lot of questions. 

Mr. Rauch, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to present 

testimony on H.R. 3099. 

STATEMENT OF SAMUEL D. RAUCH III, DEPUTY ASSISTANT 

ADMINISTRATOR FOR REGULATORY PROGRAMS, NATIONAL 

MARINE FISHERIES SERVICE, NATIONAL OCEANIC AND 

ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION 

Mr. RAUCH. Good morning, Chairman Fleming, Ranking Member 

Sablan, members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. 

My name is Sam Rauch. I am the Deputy Director of the 

National Marine Fishery Service or NMFS. The Administration 

does not have an official position on H.R. 3099, but I do want to 

talk about the underlying issues and how NMFS and the Gulf 

Council are working to address red snapper management. 

7 

The Gulf Council implemented the first red snapper rebuilding 

plan in 1990 but has modified the plan several times in response 

to new scientific information. The current red snapper rebuilding 

plan was designed to phase out overfishing between 2009 and 2010 

and to rebuild the population by 2032. 

The 2009 assessment update and the most current assessment 

completed in 2013 indicated that we have ended overfishing and 

there are more red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico today than there 

have been in decades. 

Many Gulf of Mexico red snapper fishermen echo the assessment 

findings, saying that they are seeing more and larger red snapper 

than they have ever seen in their lifetime. 

The recreational red snapper quota in 2013 and 2014 was set at 

the highest level in history of managing the fishery; 20 percent 

greater than the next highest quota level on record. And recreational landings in 2013 were the highest in recent history. In 

addition, each fish weighs more than twice as much as before. Fishermen on the west coast of Florida now have new opportunities to 

target this popular species as the population expands back to its 

historic range. After decades of overfishing, the population was concentrated in offshore waters of the northern Gulf of Mexico, but 

now catch data indicate that red snapper landings are increasing 

both closer to shore and along the west coast of Florida, with some 

fishermen reporting landings as far south as the Florida Keys. 

I would like to highlight the three main components of the Gulf 

of Mexico Red Snapper Management. 

First, the commercial sector, which is managed by an individual 

fishing quota or an IFQ program; second, the recreational sector, 

which we will talk more about, and it includes both the for-hire, 

the charter fleet and private anglers; and third, which is an important component, but there is an incidental bycatch in the commercial shrimp trawlers of juvenile red snapper. This has been an 

important three-part management structure that we have dealt 

with over the years. 

In 2007, the commercial red snapper sector moved to the IFQ 

program. This program allocates participating fishermen a percentage of the commercial annual catch limit based on their landings 

history, and the program has been a success. The average ex-vessel 

price of red snapper in 2013 was a third higher than before the 

program was implemented. IFQ participants are now targeting red 

snapper year round, and the fishery is reportedly safer than ever 

before. 

Despite these improvements, the current assessment indicates 

that rebuilding is not yet complete. There is a new red snapper assessment under way, which will provide additional information on 

the status of the population relative to the rebuilding target. This 

assessment will be completed and presented to the Gulf Council 

early next year. 

The Gulf Council has been considering a regional management 

strategy, which would provide the states greater flexibility to tailor 

recreational red snapper management to the local needs and objectives while meeting the Gulf-wide conservation goals. 

At the Federal Government, we support regional management 

structures as a way to resolve the current challenges created by inVerDate Mar 15 2010 08:42 Aug 11, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 J:\02 FISHERIES, WILDLIFE\02DE04 2ND SESS. PRINTING\91743.TXT DARLEN
8 

consistent state jurisdictions and regulations. Regional management would also stabilize the recreational sector, better manage 

the expectations of for-hire fishermen and private anglers. 

Interstate management challenges, though, are not unique to the 

Gulf of Mexico, and, in fact, they are present in every region where 

major fisheries span multiple state jurisdictions. Such challenges 

have been addressed in different regions in different ways. For example, through legislation authorizing the Atlantic States Marine 

Fisheries Commission as a coordinating body on the East Coast, 

they have been able to manage the summer flounder with many 

similarities to the current red snapper stock. 

While there are a number of models that may work, each 

requires the collective involvement and support of the states and 

full accountability to comply with the agreed-upon management 

strategies. 

NMFS believes that the hallmark of any successful regional management strategy for red snapper would include fair and equitable 

allocation amongst all the states and user groups; sound sciencebased decisionmaking that accounts for all sources of fishing mortality, both commercial and recreational; and recognizing that 

managing the shrimp trawl bycatch of red snapper is a critical 

component of the red snapper rebuilding plan; coordinated data collection systems which provide consistent, reliable, and comparable 

data between states; and catch accountability, including mechanisms to prevent and respond to quota overages within individual 

states. 

In conclusion, we have made great progress toward rebuilding 

the Gulf of Mexico red snapper population, but this progress has 

not come easily, nor will it be sustained without continued attention. It is a critical time in the history of red snapper management, 

and we must ensure that all aspects of this fishery are able to meet 

the needs of both current and future generations. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to testify before you today, 

and I am available to answer questions that you may have. 

Mr. FLEMING. Thank you, Mr. Rauch. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Rauch follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SAMUEL D. RAUCH III, DEPUTY ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR

FOR REGULATORY PROGRAMS, NATIONAL MARINE FISHERIES SERVICE, NATIONAL

OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

INTRODUCTION

Good morning Chairman and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today about red snapper management in the Gulf of 

Mexico. My name is Sam Rauch and I am the Deputy Assistant Administrator for 

Regulatory Programs at the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) within the 

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) of the U.S. Department 

of Commerce (DOC). From daily weather forecasts, severe storm warnings, and climate monitoring to fishery management, coastal restoration, and supporting marine 

commerce, NOAA’s products and services support economic vitality and affect more 

than one-third of America’s gross domestic product. NOAA’s dedicated scientists use 

cutting-edge research and high-tech instrumentation to provide citizens, planners, 

emergency managers, and other decisionmakers with reliable information they need 

when they need it. 

Today, I will describe the current status of red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico and 

the benefits fishermen and fishing communities are realizing from rebuilding efforts, 

as well as the ongoing challenges we face in ensuring those benefits are equitably 

distributed between all user groups. Also, I will describe the status of the Gulf of 

9 

Mexico Fishery Management Council’s (Gulf Council) work to develop a regional 

management strategy for the recreational sector and NMFS’ views on the hallmarks 

of a successful regional management strategy. 

HISTORICAL POPULATION TRENDS

Fishermen have harvested red snapper from the Gulf of Mexico since the mid1800s, more than a century before the first Federal fishery management measures 

were established in 1984. Currently, this species is one of the most popular and 

studied in the Gulf of Mexico, and NMFS has conducted 10 population assessments 

since the late 1980s. The first assessment, conducted in 1988, concluded the population was overfished and undergoing overfishing, meaning there were too few fish 

in the water to maximize catches over the long term and fish continued to be removed from the population at too high a rate. Six assessments conducted in the 

1990s confirmed that conclusion, suggesting conservation measures such as 

minimum size limits, commercial trip limits, and daily recreational bag limits implemented to end overfishing and rebuild the population, as required by the MagnusonStevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act (Magnuson-Stevens Act; 

P.L. 94–265) were not sufficient. A congressionally mandated independent peer review of the scientific and management basis for red snapper management, completed in 1997, also echoed these findings. 

STATUS OF REBUILDING EFFORTS

The Gulf Council implemented the first red snapper rebuilding plan in 1990, but 

has modified the rebuilding schedule and goals several times in response to new scientific information. A rebuilding plan is a strategy used to manage catch levels over 

a specified time period so that an overfished population can increase in size to a 

target level. 

The current red snapper rebuilding plan was designed to phase out overfishing 

between 2009 and 2010 and rebuild the population by 2032. The time frame to rebuild overfished populations varies depending on the status and biology of the overfished species. The red snapper rebuilding schedule is lengthy because red snapper 

is a long-lived species, reaching more than 50 years of age, and was severely overfished for many decades. 

Substantial changes to the plan, as implemented in 2007, were informed by a 

2005 population assessment and followed a court ruling on a lawsuit filed by the 

Coastal Conservation Association, Ocean Conservancy, and Gulf Restoration 

Network, who found previous rebuilding measures to be insufficient to rebuild the 

population on schedule. These changes reduced the combined (commercial and recreational) red snapper catch limit by 45 percent from 9.12 million pounds to 

5.0 million pounds; reduced the recreational bag limit from four to two fish to slow 

the rate of catch; reduced the commercial minimum size limit from 15 inches total 

length to 13 inches total length to reduce regulatory discards in that fishery; and 

specified a maximum level for shrimp fishing effort which, if exceeded, would trigger 

area closures to minimize the incidental take of red snapper in shrimp trawls. 

Also in 2007 the commercial red snapper sector moved to an individual fishing 

quota program (IFQ), which allocates participating fishermen a percentage of the 

commercial annual catch limit based on their landings history. The IFQ program 

is intended and has been demonstrated to better align the capacity of the fleet with 

the commercial catch limit, to mitigate short fishing seasons, improve safety at sea 

and increase the profitability of the commercial red snapper sector. Participation in 

the commercial red snapper fishery, measured by the number of accounts holding 

red snapper IFQ shares, has declined by about 28 percent since the program was 

implemented. However, the average ex-vessel price of red snapper in 2013 was 33 

percent higher than the price prior to instituting the IFQ (inflation adjusted, 2002– 

2006). Also, IFQ participants are now targeting red snapper year round, and the 

fishery is reportedly safer than it used to be when fishermen were required to compete for the catch during very limited season openings. 

There is clear evidence the rebuilding measures implemented in 2007 are paying 

off. The 2009 assessment update and the current assessment completed in 2013 indicate we ended overfishing and there are more red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico 

today than in decades. According to the current assessment, the total biomass of the 

population has more than doubled in the last 5 years. The biomass of the Gulf of 

Mexico red snapper population is estimated to have reached 60 million metric tons 

in 2014, which is more than half of the rebuilding target (Figure 1). 

Many Gulf of Mexico fishermen echo the assessment findings, saying they are seeing more and larger red snapper than they have seen in their lifetime. The recVerDate Mar 15 2010 08:42 Aug 11, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 J:\02 FISHERIES, WILDLIFE\02DE04 2ND SESS. PRINTING\91743.TXT DARLEN
10 

reational red snapper quota in 2013 and 2014 was set at the highest level in the 

history of managing the red snapper fishery (20 percent greater than the next highest quota level on record). Recreational landings in 2013 were the highest in recent 

history. In addition, each fish weighs more than twice as much as before. Also, fishermen on the west coast of Florida now have new opportunities to target this popular species as the population expands back to its historic range. After decades of 

overfishing, the population was concentrated in offshore waters of the northern Gulf 

of Mexico. Now, catch data indicate red snapper landings are increasing both closer 

to shore and along the west coast of Florida, with some fishermen reporting landings as far south as the Florida Keys. 

Despite these remarkable improvements, the current assessment indicates rebuilding is not yet complete because the overall biomass and reproductive potential 

of the red snapper population have not yet reached the rebuilding target. There is 

a new red snapper update assessment underway, which will provide additional information on the status of the population relative to the rebuilding target. That assessment will be completed and presented to the Gulf Council early next year. 

MANAGEMENT CHALLENGES

While fishermen, fishery managers and scientists all agree the red snapper population is making a remarkable recovery, there is also widespread agreement there 

are real challenges in the fishery in terms of ensuring rebuilding benefits are fairly 

and equitably distributed among all user groups. 

NMFS has increased the combined (commercial and recreational) catch limit each 

year since overfishing ended in 2009 and, since 2013, the catch limit has been the 

highest ever specified for this fishery—11 million pounds. The commercial sector is 

flourishing at that limit under the IFQ program. Unfortunately, the recreational 

sector is not sharing the same benefits of stock recovery. 

Higher catch rates and larger fish, while improving recreational fishing experiences and opportunities, are causing the recreational sector to reach its catch limit 

much more quickly. As a result, higher catch limits have not translated into increased fishing days for recreational fishermen. The recreational red snapper catch 

limit increased by 62 percent from 2008–2012 compared to a 148 percent increase 

in recreational landings per day during that same time period. As a result, the recreational season has been progressively shortened to prevent catch limit overages, 

in compliance with the Magnuson-Stevens Act. 

Recreational fishermen are understandably frustrated by this unexpected trend, 

which has been exacerbated by state jurisdictional and regulatory inconsistencies. 

The Federal recreational fishing season length is further reduced when Gulf Coast 

states implement less restrictive red snapper regulations in state waters because 

both catches from both state and Federal waters must be counted against the catch 

limit. Such state actions also create inequities because not all fishermen benefit 

equally from less restrictive state water regulations. 

In response, the Gulf Council set the 2014 recreational red snapper catch target 

20 percent below the limit to reduce the likelihood of an overage this year. This action, along with extended state-water fishing seasons and other impacts of the litigation, effectively reduced the 2014 Federal recreational red snapper fishing season 

from 40 days to 9 days—the shortest ever. Preliminary 2014 catch data indicate recreational catches were below the quota for the first time in many years. 

MANAGEMENT OPTIONS

The Gulf Council recently approved a new fishery management plan amendment 

which, if implemented, would enable them to manage the private and federally permitted for-hire components of the recreational red snapper sector for different objectives for a 3-year trial period. For-hire fishermen are working with the Gulf Council 

to explore new tools to increase their catch accounting, stabilize their business operations, and improve their economic viability. However, developing solutions for the 

open access, private angler component of the recreational sector is more challenging 

and will require a broad shared vision of expectations and needs. 

The Gulf Council is actively working through its state agency representatives, 

fishermen and other stakeholders to identify shared goals and develop management 

options that more equitably distribute rebuilding benefits. These options include reallocating some portion of future catch limit increases to the recreational fishery to 

achieve a more stable fishing season and provide recreational fishermen a greater 

opportunity to benefit from rebuilding progress. Also, they include a regional management strategy, which would provide the states greater flexibility to tailor 

11 

recreational red snapper management to local needs and objectives while meeting 

Gulf-wide conservation goals. 

All Gulf Coast states have expressed some form of support for a regional management strategy, but have had some difficulty coming to agreement on a fair and equitable methodology for allocating the recreational red snapper quota among the 

states. As a result, the Gulf Council has not yet finalized a specific regional management strategy for review and implementation by the Secretary of Commerce. 

However, during its October 2014 meeting, the Gulf Council identified a preliminary 

preferred state-specific allocation methodology and requested additional analyses 

and process options to review at its January 2015 meeting. NMFS is committed to 

continuing to support the Gulf Council’s efforts to finalize this plan over the next 

year. 

NMFS supports regional management in concept as a way to resolve the current 

challenges created by inconsistent state jurisdictions and regulations, stabilize the 

recreational sector, and better manage the expectations of for-hire fishermen and 

private anglers. Interstate management challenges are not unique to the Gulf of 

Mexico. In fact, they are present in every region where major fisheries span multiple state jurisdictions. Such challenges have been addressed in different regions 

in different ways; for example, through legislation authorizing the Atlantic States 

Marine Fisheries Commission as a coordinating body on the U.S. East Coast. While 

there are any number of models that may work, each requires the collective involvement and support of the states, and full accountability to comply with agreed upon 

management strategies. 

NMFS believes the hallmarks of a successful regional management strategy for 

red snapper include: 

• Fair and equitable allocations among all of the states and user groups; 

• Sound, science-based decisionmaking that accounts for all sources of fishing 

mortality, recognizing that limiting shrimp trawl bycatch of red snapper is a 

critical component of the red snapper rebuilding plan; 

• Coordinated data collection systems, which provide consistent, reliable data; 

and 

• Catch accountability, including mechanisms to prevent and respond to quota 

overages. 

CONCLUSION

We have made great progress toward rebuilding the Gulf of Mexico red snapper 

population. But this progress has not come easily, nor will it be sustained without 

continued attention. This is a critical time in the history of red snapper management, and we must ensure the fishery is able to meet the needs of both current and 

future generations. We must continue the achievements we have gained in the commercial fishery while improving stability, accountability, and predictability to the 

recreational fishery. 

We must not lose sight of the fact that the current management challenges are 

a function of success. The red snapper population is rebuilding and that is a good 

thing. Now we need to make some reasoned, thoughtful decisions about how to best 

distribute the hard-earned benefits provided by this growing population. 

Gulf of Mexico fishermen and fishing communities sacrificed a great deal to get 

us here. It is critical that all involved remain engaged and work together to find 

a way forward in the cooperative spirit that the regional fishery management council process promotes. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to discuss Gulf of Mexico red snapper 

management. I am available to answer any questions you may have. 

12 

Figure 1. Historical and projected trends in Gulf of Mexico red snapper 

biomass. 

Mr. FLEMING. Next we have Secretary Barham. You are now recognized, sir, for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ROBERT J. BARHAM, 

SECRETARY, LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF WILDLIFE AND 

FISHERIES 

Mr. BARHAM. Mr. Chairman and Members, thank you very much 

for the opportunity to come today. 

In Louisiana, it became clear to us that the system as it exists 

was a failure. Last year, as you pointed out, in the face of fishermen going out in the Gulf and finding more red snapper and bigger 

red snapper than they had ever seen before, to the point that you 

cannot catch anything else but red snapper in a lot of locations 

where you go fish, we were notified that we were going to have 9 

days for recreational fishing. It was a point where we threw up our 

hands and said, ‘‘This is a total failure; we’ve got to do something 

different.’’ So we, in Louisiana, along with all the other states, 

went noncompliant. 

Well, if you have a system where the people who are participating in it, in essence, are revolting from the system, you certainly 

need to take a look. 

H.R. 3099 does address that. We have to make a change. We 

know that we can manage our fisheries much better than it can be 

managed from elsewhere. I have complete confidence all of my 

fellow directors and secretaries and commissions will do a much 

better job than what we have in place. 

We are not the only one that took that position. In Federal court 

last year, in a suit along with the state of Texas, a Federal court 

ruled that the system of management that exists today with 

National Marine Fisheries’ guidance guided by the MRIP numbers 

is an absolute failure. 

The numbers that we can provide are so much more extensive 

and accurate than what they have. We get a very clear picture. 


91743.001.eps
13 

Because we were noncompliant—or I won’t presume to know everything—they pulled our money for monitoring. Well, the fishermen in Louisiana banded together, and we passed what is called 

the LA Creel program, where our fisherman are paying for the 

monitoring. I am going into my 8th year as Secretary of the 

Department. It is the only fee increase that I am aware of that has 

passed through the legislature in 7 years, and that is because the 

fishermen have such confidence that we can manage that fishery, 

we will do a better job, and it is because of the extensive amount 

of sampling we do. 

We do more than 20 times the amount of actual fish measurement. We do nearly 50 times the interviews and the follow-up 

contacts with the fishermen who are catching these red snapper. So 

we have a much more extensive program. 

Now, I will say, in H.R. 3099, there is also the oversight. We recognize that there needs to be an oversight provision and that we 

need to keep an eye—the Feds need to keep an eye on everyone to 

be sure that there is a third party, if you will, overseeing the 

states. That is a great plan and another strong point of this bill. 

Mr. Chairman, I won’t take the full 5 minutes. I will summarize. 

You have my more extensive statement you can all read. What I 

will tell you is, the states can do a better job in managing this fishery than the system we have in place today. 

And I am certainly available for questions. 

Mr. FLEMING. Thank you, Mr. Barham, Secretary Barham, and 

certainly it is amazing, really, just how far off we are on this. The 

stories I hear about catching limits within 15 minutes. So thank 

you for your valuable information. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Barham follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF ROBERT J. BARHAM, SECRETARY, LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT

OF WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES

Thank you Mr. Chairman for the opportunity to speak on behalf of Louisiana’s 

fishing community before the U.S. House of Representatives’ Committee on Natural 

Resources, Subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife, Oceans, and Insular Affairs to 

present information on H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation 

Act of 2013. Red Snapper is an iconic American fish, extremely popular with both 

commercial and recreational fishermen, especially in Louisiana and the other Gulf 

states. 

Commercial and recreational fishing have been vital to Louisiana’s economy and 

culture for hundreds of years. Today in Louisiana, nearly a million saltwater anglers catch fish for sport and 13,000 licensed commercial fishermen harvest seafood 

for a living—both form the backbone of Louisiana’s fishing industry that generates 

a multitude of jobs and pumps billions of dollars into our economy. Our fisheries 

resources are important to both our fishing industry and coastal communities because of the socioeconomic benefits they provide. 

Through the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act of 

1976, Congress established the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council (along 

with seven other regional councils) to conserve and manage these valuable resources 

and develop and monitor fishery management plans that provide for their best use. 

Congress intentionally made the councils regional to allow fishery management to 

better respond to a region’s unique environment and the needs of its constituents. 

Unfortunately, with respect to Red Snapper, the Gulf Council is no longer doing 

the job you, as Congress, gave them nearly 40 years ago. While measures taken to 

date to stop overfishing and rebuild the Red Snapper resource have been successful, 

management has reached an impasse, especially for the recreational fishery. While 

there are more and more Red Snapper and they are growing larger and larger, the 

recreational fishing season keeps getting shorter because the Gulf Council continues 

to use mediocre data to support inflexible management of this fishery. This fishery 

is no longer socioeconomically sustainable; management is failing. This is not only 

14 

my opinion; it is also the opinion of a Federal judge who ruled in March 2014 that 

Gulf Red Snapper fishery management is failing and is violating the law. Specifically, managers allowed the recreational fishery to exceed their share of the annual 

combined quota due to faulty science (both data and assessments) and did not require any accountability measures to prevent or respond to such overharvests. 

The Gulf Council currently relies on recreational landings data from the National 

Marine Fisheries Service’s (NMFS) Marine Recreational Information Program, or 

MRIP, to set and monitor the recreational Red Snapper fishery’s quota and season. 

However, MRIP is not equipped for this purpose—it was designed to monitor trends 

over time over a large geographic area, not provide real-time, state-specific data. For 

example, MRIP estimated that Louisiana’s 2013 recreational landings fell somewhere between 265,361 and 942,363 pounds, a range nearly 700,000 pounds. It is 

impossible to use highly variable estimates like these to predict, with any certainty, 

how much can and will be harvested and appropriately determine fishing seasons 

to not exceed quotas. Yet Federal managers continue to use these data, miscalculate 

the Red Snapper quota for the Gulf, and underestimate actual Gulf-wide recreational harvests. In addition, MRIP does not deliver data in a timely manner— 

data typically comes in 2-month intervals after an additional delay of 45 days for 

data processing. This means data is often not available to managers until the fishing season is closed, prohibiting any kind of flexible, responsive management. As a 

result, recreational Red Snapper harvests have exceeded quotas in 6 of the past 

7 years. Such imprecise, untimely data also forces managers to set extremely restrictive and inflexible seasons—they do not have the data they need to effectively 

manage the fishery and achieve the best use of the resource. 

The Gulf Council could fix these issues—they could demand better data from 

NMFS and cooperate with the states to respond to and meet their constituents’ 

needs. They have chosen not to, and the Gulf states refuse to sit by while this mismanagement harms our commercial and recreational fishermen, coastal communities, and economies. This year, 2014, was the shortest Federal Red Snapper 

season in history—a mere 9 days. All five Gulf states implemented their own statewaters Red Snapper seasons, inconsistent with Federal regulations, but still in the 

best interest of recreational anglers, the economy, and the resource. The Gulf states 

do not want to continue to go out of compliance with Federal regulations or hinder 

the recovery of the stock or fishery. We are simply confident we can provide better 

data to manage this fishery and provide our fishermen more fishing opportunities. 

However, we cannot do so under the current management framework. 

H.R. 3099 would move the management of the Gulf Red Snapper fishery forward 

by requiring enhanced collaboration among the states with respect to fishery data 

collection and more frequent (annual) stock assessments to support management. In 

Louisiana, we have already invested substantial resources in developing a recreational quota monitoring survey to provide real-time, in-season Red Snapper landings estimates for Louisiana. We implemented this survey (LA Creel) last year; in 

its inaugural year, our biologists measured 23 times more fish and interviewed more 

than 49 times the vessel trips than MRIP. This more intensive sampling means 

more precise data—LA Creel estimated that Louisiana’s 2013 recreational landings 

fell somewhere between 503,171 and 549,987 pounds, a range of only about 45,000 

pounds (compared to MRIP’s 700,000-pound range). Armed with more precise data, 

managers can develop and implement management measures with more certainty 

and take full advantage of the available resource. The other Gulf states are now following Louisiana’s lead and developing similar systems. 

H.R. 3099 also gives management authority for the Red Snapper fishery to the 

Gulf states through the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission, creating a framework that allows flexible, tailored management measures. It does not make sense 

to have a one-size-fits-all approach to managing this fishery. Each state’s fishery 

management agency is more receptive and can be more responsive to the wants and 

needs of its own constituents than the council process currently permits. This bill 

will allow managers to meet local needs as well as Gulf-wide conservation goals. 

H.R. 3099 still requires management to meet the fishery conservation and management standards of the Magnuson-Stevens Act, including fair and equitable access to this public resource, and makes states accountable for effectively managing 

their fisheries, with Federal oversight from the Secretary of Commerce. This bill is 

not about reallocating the resource and will not negatively impact the commercial 

sector. In fact, to ensure there are no immediate, unintended, adverse impacts on 

this sector and the businesses that rely on this supply, there is a 3-year prohibition 

on reducing current quotas (unless something changes with the stock) and ongoing 

monitoring and enforcement. 

The Gulf states are fully capable of providing the data and management measures 

needed to effectively manage the Red Snapper fishery. It would be no real change 

15 

from our current responsibilities. We already collect data on and conduct routine 

stock assessments for our inshore species; we also partner with each other and 

NOAA to monitor offshore species. This data, coupled with our commercial and recreational landings data, support Federal stock assessments. We develop and implement management measures for our fisheries through our respective legislative and 

regulatory processes. Finally, we enforce both state and Federal fisheries regulations in all Gulf waters through the Joint Enforcement Agreement. Working in 

Federal waters, Louisiana’s enforcement agents generally contact about 4,500 recreational anglers each year; they are active on the water and at the dock monitoring 

compliance in commercial fisheries. If granted management authority, the states 

could actually increase enforcement capabilities in all Gulf waters because additional resources would be available to support this. 

In closing, we have tried to work through the council process, but the council process is not working. If it was, there would be no reason for this bill and I would not 

be standing before you today. NMFS itself even recognizes that ‘‘new and innovative 

solutions are needed to manage the Gulf Red Snapper fishery.’’ The Gulf states are 

that solution. 

Mr. FLEMING. Mr. Blankenship, you are now recognized for 

5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER BLANKENSHIP, DIRECTOR, 

MARINE RESOURCES DIVISION, ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF 

CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES 

Mr. BLANKENSHIP. Thank you, Chairman Fleming, Mr. Sablan, 

and committee members. Thank you for the opportunity to come 

here and speak with you today. 

Red snapper management is of the utmost importance to 

Alabama and the area of the most consternation. Even though we 

have the smallest coastline, we land, on average, 30 percent of the 

recreationally caught red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico. We have 

a great red snapper fishery off our coast because we have the largest artificial reef program in the country. Through partnerships 

with many organizations, we have placed over 17,000 reefs in the 

1,200 square miles of reef zone managed by my division. 

These reefs have built a large concentration of reef fish. The city 

of Orange Beach is known as the Red Snapper Capital of the World 

and has the largest charter fleet anywhere in the Gulf, but this 

year, they and the thousands of private recreational fishermen 

have only had access to this great fishery for 9 days. 

The Gulf-wide single stock Federal management of red snapper 

is not working for all the states. There is the need for management 

on the regional and state level. Regional management can be done. 

We all do it now for species like speckled trout and red drum, as 

well as other state-managed species. I don’t see where red snapper 

would be any different. 

Due to changes in the Marine Recreational Information Program 

in 2013, the estimated catch of red snapper was drastically inflated 

over previous years. The public has lost confidence in this system, 

and, frankly, so have the Gulf states. 

Each of the Gulf states has implemented a state-specific red 

snapper data collection program because there is no belief that the 

current MRIP estimates are correct. In order to determine the actual catch of red snapper landed in Alabama, we developed and implemented a mandatory red snapper reporting system for the 2014 

season. This system was very successful in its first year and shows 

16 

that individualized data collection that best fits the geography and 

circumstances of each state can be very beneficial. 

Alabama also continued with the current MRIP system in 2014 

and conducted both programs simultaneously so that we would 

have a comparison of the data for validity. The results were 

striking. 

The Alabama system estimated that 418,000 pounds of red snapper were landed during the 2014 season, while the Federal system 

estimated that 1,041,000 pounds were landed. 

We validated our results in Alabama using video counts of vessels that were launched at coastal boat ramps. These video count 

estimates were a near identical match to the Alabama red snapper 

reporting data. We feel that the Federal system overestimated the 

catch by more than double. This gross inaccuracy has a profound 

effect on the red snapper seasonally and, consequently, a profound 

negative effect on the economy of coastal Alabama. 

We are currently working with NOAA fisheries to calibrate the 

MRIP system and to explore how the Alabama data can be used 

in that system and for future assessments. 

In Alabama, we are continuing to explore technology to improve 

the reporting of recreational catch. Alabama has shown that we 

have the ability to monitor the catch of red snapper better than the 

current Federal system. 

With the management regime proposed by H.R. 3099, the 

Alabama red snapper reporting system will be vital to accurately 

estimating the catch and ensure that overfishing does not occur. 

Currently, the red snapper stock is assessed and managed as a 

single unit. For true regional management, each region needs the 

ability to conduct stock assessments for the fishery within its region and then manage that stock independent of other regions. 

In some cases, the data collection for NOAA is not adequate to 

fully inform the stock assessments. For example, NOAA fisheries 

conduct data collection for reef fish using bottom long lines. They 

conduct this work from the Texas/Mexico border all the way to the 

tip of Florida. However, their sampling protocols explicitly exclude 

the Alabama artificial reef zones. In order to collect this information and have it included in the red snapper stock assessment, 

Alabama has funded and conducts our own bottom long line data 

collection program in Federal waters. Alabama is spending the 

hard-earned money of our citizens in order to collect that data that 

NOAA fisheries is not. 

Alabama just completed our own comprehensive population estimate of red snapper within the Alabama artificial reef zones, and 

this estimate shows that we have more red snapper off the coast 

of Alabama than is being estimated by NOAA fisheries. 

We are currently conducting a red snapper stock assessment for 

the area south of the Alabama coast. When the population estimate 

and the Alabama stock assessment are peer-reviewed and scientifically accepted, it will show that Alabama has the ability to adequately manage the red snapper fishery in totality. We can conduct 

the stock assessments, we can set a healthy quota, and we are able 

to accurately monitor the catch to ensure that the red snapper fishery is not overfished, while at the same time allowing access to our 

fishermen. 

17 

I feel like Alabama has more of an opportunity to manage this 

fishery in totality under the provisions of this bill than we have 

under current Federal law. 

In my remaining time, I would like to touch on one other issue 

that is germane to this topic. 

All the Gulf states need consistent water boundaries for fisheries 

management. Currently, the states of Texas and Florida have 

9 miles, while the other states have 3. This is confusing to the 

public and does not give each state a level playing field to manage 

the fisheries within 9 miles of shore. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to participate in this most 

worthy discussion, and I will be glad to answer any questions you 

may have. 

Mr. FLEMING. Well, thank you, Mr. Blankenship. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Blankenship follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF MR. CHRISTOPHER BLANKENSHIP, DIRECTOR OF MARINE

RESOURCES DIVISION, ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND NATURAL

RESOURCES

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to 

appear before you today to testify on the extremely important subject of red snapper 

management. I am Chris Blankenship and I am the Director of the Marine 

Resources Division of the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural 

Resources. Under Alabama Law, the Alabama Department of Conservation and 

Natural Resources (ADCNR) has full jurisdiction and control of all seafoods existing 

or living in the waters of Alabama and it shall ordain, promulgate and enforce all 

rules, regulations and orders deemed by it to be necessary for the protection, propagation or conservation of the same. The Marine Resources Division (MRD) is responsible for managing the fisheries in the Coastal waters of Alabama and advising the 

Commissioner of Conservation relative to saltwater fisheries and seafoods. 

I am so honored to appear before you today because for the state of Alabama, the 

red snapper fishery is the most important recreational fishery in the Gulf of Mexico. 

It has also become the most contentious fishery. Prior to 1997, the red snapper fishery was open 365 days a year with very liberal creel and size limits or no limits 

at all. The red snapper fishery was being overfished and additional management 

measures were put in place to protect the stock. In 1997, the season was shortened 

to 330 days with progressively shorter seasons in 1998 and 1999 when the season 

length was 240 days. During the years of 2000 through 2007, the season was stable 

at 194 days. In 2008, the recreational season really began to be curtailed when the 

season was shortened to 65 days. In 2012, the season was 45 days long, in 2013 

the season was 28 days and in the current year it was an astounding 9 days. I am 

happy to report that the red snapper fishery is no longer considered to be undergoing overfishing, although it is officially still overfished. The continued reduction 

and fluctuation of fishing seasons has placed a real hardship on the recreational and 

charter fishermen of the state of Alabama and other Gulf states. 

Alabama has a relatively small coastline compared to the other Gulf states. Even 

though the coastline of Alabama only makes up less than 5 percent of the total Gulf 

coastline, we land on average 30 percent of the recreationally caught red snapper 

in the Gulf of Mexico. The city of Orange Beach is known as, ‘‘The Red Snapper 

Capital of the World.’’ The charter and for-hire fleet in Orange Beach contains over 

200 vessels. This is the largest homeport for charter and for-hire vessels in the entire Gulf of Mexico. The people of the coastal areas of Alabama and particularly the 

people of the cities of Orange Beach, Gulf Shores and Dauphin Island are proud of 

the outstanding red snapper fishery we have in the Federal waters adjacent to 

Alabama. You might wonder how a state with such a small coastline could land that 

many red snapper. The state of Alabama has built this premier red snapper fishery 

through the creation of manmade artificial reefs. 

ARTIFICIAL REEFS

Alabama has the largest artificial reef program in the United States. Red snapper, as well as other reef fish, need structure to thrive. The water bottoms off the 

coast of Alabama are relatively flat with very little relief. Until the last 50 years, 

the only places that red snapper were caught off our coast were on the very few 

18 

natural reefs and outcroppings in the Gulf. Beginning in the 1950s, the Alabama 

Marine Resources Division began placing material in the waters offshore to create 

habitat for reef fish. The initial placements were so successful that in the 1970s 

Alabama worked with the Corps of Engineers to create the Alabama Artificial Reef 

Zone. This 1,030-square mile area in Federal waters adjacent to Alabama is managed by the Marine Resources Division. Over the past 40 plus years, there have 

been over 17,000 reefs placed in the reef zone. These reefs include over 100 decommissioned military tanks, concrete bridge rubble and metal bridge spans, over 1,000 

ten-foot tall concrete pyramids, many barges, ships, tugs, airplanes, dry docks, oil 

and gas rigs, concrete culverts, and pipes. There have also been several thousand 

reefs placed by private companies and individuals that met reef construction protocols and were permitted by the Marine Resources Division. This habitat creation has 

caused the population of red snapper to increase substantially off the coast of 

Alabama. 

I would like for my Division to take full credit for the success of the Alabama 

Artificial Reef Program, but I cannot. Although the program is managed by MRD 

and the state of Alabama has invested millions of dollars in reef construction, the 

level of success we have seen would not have been possible without the partnerships 

we have participated in with the charter industry, recreational fishing organizations 

and private industry. The Orange Beach Fishing Association has been instrumental 

in partnering with us to fund reef construction. Through the Red Snapper World 

Championship Fishing Tournament, hundreds of thousands of dollars were raised 

to build reefs. The Alabama Road Builders Association and the oil and gas industry 

saw the great fishery we were building in Alabama and provided material and funds 

to construct reefs. The Coastal Conservation Association has been a valuable addition to recent participation in reef building activities both in state waters and in 

adjacent Federal waters. The most recent partnership has been the creation of the 

Alabama Gulf Coast Reef and Restoration Foundation. This group was formed to 

bring together state, county and local governments as well as coastal chambers of 

commerce, coastal businesses and fishing interests to continue to fund reef building. 

The millions of dollars that have been invested in artificial reefs and the foresight 

of so many people have created this great red snapper fishery, but these same people are only able to have access to this fishery for a few days out of the year due 

to current stringent fishing seasons. 

REGIONAL MANAGEMENT OF RED SNAPPER THROUGH THE GULF STATES MARINE

FISHERIES COMMISSION

The Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council and the National Marine 

Fisheries Service are currently tasked with the management of red snapper. Currently, the red snapper stock is managed as a single stock in the Gulf of Mexico 

with an overall Gulf-wide quota. The overall quota is divided between the recreational sector, with 49 percent of the quota and the commercial sector, with 51 

percent of the total quota. Once the recreational quota is met, or is projected to be 

met, the recreational red snapper fishery in the Exclusive Economic Zone of the Gulf 

of Mexico must close. The commercial sector is managed under an Individual 

Fishing Quota program (IFQ). The IFQ program has been very successful at constraining the commercial catch under their allotted quota each year. 

As previously stated, currently the red snapper stock in the Gulf of Mexico is 

managed as a single unit. This single unit management includes both fish caught 

in state waters as well as fish caught in Federal waters. All of the Gulf states do 

not have the same area of state waters. Texas and Florida have 9 miles of state 

waters while the states of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana only have 3 miles. 

All three upper Gulf Coast states have passed state legislation to extend our waters 

to 9 miles for fisheries management. It is imperative that these new boundaries be 

recognized by the Federal Government in order to put all five Gulf states on a level 

playing field. Some of the states have red snapper seasons in state waters that differ from the Federal red snapper season, which is within their sovereign rights. The 

issue for a state like Alabama is that the fish caught during these state seasons 

is deducted from the overall Gulf-wide quota which shortens the seasons in Federal 

waters off the coast of Alabama. The state of Alabama does not have many reefs 

within 3 miles of the shore and therefore there is not a sufficient red snapper population in state waters to have much of a season outside of the Federal season. Until 

last year, all of the reefs we have constructed in the Gulf of Mexico are outside the 

state 3-mile territorial waters. 

The large decrease in the recreational season length coupled with the inequality 

of state water area and inconsistent red snapper seasons by some states has many 

people looking for solutions. One of those possible solutions is regional management 

19 

of red snapper and other reef fish. There are still many aspects of regional management that are under discussion but one thing is clear, the current Gulf-wide, single 

stock management system through the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management 

Council has not satisfactorily served the fishermen of the Gulf of Mexico or the 

resource. 

As currently proposed under Amendment 39 to the Red Snapper Fishery 

Management Plan before the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council, regional management would divide the Gulf into five regions corresponding to the five 

Gulf state boundaries. Each state would be allocated a portion of the recreational 

red snapper quota as set by the Science and Statistical Committee of the Gulf 

Council. This allocation would be determined using prior landing history and other 

factors to establish a fair distribution of allocation. Once a state receives its allocation of the total quota, the state could enact management measures that would best 

fit the needs of that state. This flexibility would assist in lengthening the season 

for most states but the biggest benefit would be in tailoring seasons and management measures that would optimize the socio-economic needs of each region. Currently, the red snapper season begins on June 1 of each year and runs consecutively 

until the quota is projected to be met. There are some states that, due to tourism, 

weather patterns, or other factors, would prefer a season at a different time other 

than June each year. For example, some states might want a season in April or 

May, some would like a weekend only season, some would like a fall season while 

some would like to have a split season. Regional management would allow each region to set seasons that would provide the greatest benefit to the fishermen and 

coastal economies within their state while still protecting the red snapper stock. 

Regional management and quota allocation would also solve the problem of different state water areas and incompatible regulations. Each region would be allotted 

a certain amount of pounds to manage. It would not matter if the fish were caught 

in state waters or Federal waters; it would still be counted toward that one regions 

allocation without adversely affecting another region. Regions could also use other 

measures to better manage the fishery in their region including setting different bag 

limits or size limits or assigning different sectors a portion of the regional quota. 

If H.R. 3099 was implemented, the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission 

would conduct stock assessments for red snapper annually and then each of the five 

Gulf states would submit a plan to manage the fishery adjacent to their state. I 

think this has a great deal of potential. If the state and selected NOAA scientists 

can work together to produce a comprehensive stock assessment conducted by the 

Commission and then manage the resultant quota with the means that protect the 

red snapper stock while also allowing greater access to recreational fishermen that 

would be a vast improvement over the current system. 

The Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission does not currently have regulatory 

authority. This is something that would have to change in order for this proposed 

system to be successful. Another issue concerns funding, the Commission does not 

currently employ a stock assessment scientist and there are no funds in the 

Commission budget to conduct stock assessment workshops. There is currently not 

adequate funding to hold public meeting in each Gulf state to receive public testimony. These are issues that can be resolved by transferring a portion of the funding 

that is currently being used by NOAA and the Gulf Council to conduct these activities to the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission. 

RECREATIONAL RED SNAPPER DATA COLLECTION

Due to changes in the Federal Marine Recreational Information Program (MRIP) 

in 2013, the reported catch of red snapper was drastically inflated over previous 

years. The public has lost confidence in this system and frankly, so have many of 

the Gulf states. Each of the Gulf states has implemented a state-specific red snapper recreational data collection program because there is no belief that the current 

MRIP estimates are correct. There has been a consensus in Alabama from the charter fishermen and many recreational fishermen that for the opportunity to pursue 

regional management they would be willing to take a more active role in the reporting of their catch. In order to determine the actual catch of red snapper that is landed in Alabama, the Alabama Marine Resources Division developed and implemented 

a mandatory Red Snapper Reporting System for the 2014 red snapper season. This 

program required both charter and recreational fishermen to report their catches of 

red snapper upon their return to the dock. This system was very successful in its 

first year and shows that individualized data collection that best fits the geography 

and circumstances of each state can be very beneficial. 

Alabama implanted this new system in 2014 but we also continued with the current MRIP system and conducted both programs simultaneously so we would have 

20 

a comparison of the validity. The results were striking. The Alabama system estimated that 418,000 pounds of red snapper were landed during the 2014 season 

while the Federal MRIP system estimated the 1,041,000 pounds we landed. 

Alabama validated its results by using video counts of vessels launched at coastal 

boat ramps. These video count estimates were a near identical match to the 

Alabama red snapper reporting system data. We feel that the Federal system overestimated the catch by more than double. This gross inaccuracy has a profound effect on the red snapper season length and consequently a profound negative effect 

on the economy of Coastal Alabama. Alabama plans to continue the mandatory red 

snapper reporting system in 2015. We will again conduct both the state and Federal 

systems concurrently in order to have comparative data. We are also working with 

NOAA Fisheries to calibrate the MRIP system and to explore how the Alabama data 

can be used in that system and in future assessments. 

The charter fleet in Alabama has proposed 100 percent electronic trip reporting 

to ensure compliance and to assist in quota monitoring. In Alabama we are continuing to explore new technology to improve the reporting of recreational catch. 

Alabama has shown that under regional management we have the desire and the 

ability to better monitor the catch of red snapper than the current Federal system. 

With the management proposed by H.R. 3099, the Alabama system will be vital to 

accurately estimating the catch to ensure overfishing does not occur. As the Director 

of the Alabama Marine Resources Division, I am concerned about the cost of additional data collection. For regional management, or continued Federal management, 

adequate funding for recreational data collection is imperative. 

REGIONAL MANAGEMENT AND STOCK ASSESSMENTS

The proposed concept of regional management through the Gulf States Marine 

Fisheries Commission is a step in the right direction. The flexibility to set seasons 

and other management measures by region will go a long way toward providing tailored management that best suits the socio-economic and fishery management needs 

of the region. However, not all regions have the same habitat and therefore not all 

regions have the same stock characteristics. As previously stated, Alabama has the 

largest artificial reef program in the United States. We have over 17,000 reefs that 

have been placed in our reef zones. This large amount of habitat has produced a 

large amount of fish. Not all states or regions have this large concentration and population of red snapper and other reef fish. Currently, the red snapper stock is assessed and managed as a single unit. For true regional management, each region 

needs the ability to conduct a stock assessment for the fishery within its region and 

then manage that stock independent of the other regions. The current MagnusonStevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act (MSA) does not allow this type 

of true regional management. 

In some cases, the data collected by NOAA Fisheries is not adequate to fully inform the stock assessment models. To obtain a large portion of the data included 

in the red snapper stock assessment, NOAA Fisheries conducts fishery independent 

data collection for reef fish using a bottom long line. NOAA conducts this work from 

the Texas/Mexico border to the tip of Florida. However, their sampling protocol explicitly excludes the Alabama Artificial Reef Zones from its data collection. Attached 

to this testimony is a chart showing the last 2 years of NOAA Fisheries long line 

sets south of the Alabama coast. As you can see, the reef areas off our coast are 

not sampled. Red snapper primarily reside near reef structure. To me this is akin 

to conducting a census of the United States but excluding all the cities and just 

sampling the rural areas. The population of our United States would be drastically 

different if the census was conducted in this manner. I feel the red snapper information collected by NOAA is also skewed by excluding the areas where over 30 percent 

of ALL the red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico are caught. In order to collect this 

information and have it included in the red snapper stock assessment, Alabama has 

funded and conducted our own bottom long line data collection program in Federal 

waters. Alabama is spending the hard earned money of our citizens in order to collect data that NOAA Fisheries should be collecting. Again, this is blatantly unfair 

to the citizens of Alabama. 

Alabama just completed our own comprehensive population estimate of red snapper within the Alabama Reef Zones. This population estimate was presented by Dr. 

Sean Powers of the University of South Alabama at the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries 

Management Council Meeting in October of 2014. The estimate shows that we have 

more red snapper off the coast of Alabama than is being estimated by NOAA 

Fisheries. We will continue to refine this estimate and work to have the information 

included in the next benchmark red snapper stock assessment. We are currently 

conducting a red snapper stock assessment for the area south of the Alabama coast. 

21 

When the Alabama Red Snapper Population Estimate and the Alabama Red 

Snapper Stock Assessment are peer reviewed and scientifically accepted, it will 

show that Alabama has the ability to adequately manage the red snapper fishery 

in totality. We can conduct the stock assessments, we can set a healthy quota and 

we will be able to accurately monitor the catch to ensure that the red snapper fishery is not overfished while at the same time allowing access to our fishermen. I feel 

that Alabama has more of an opportunity manage this fishery in totality under the 

provisions of H.R. 3099 than we currently have under NOAA Fisheries and current 

Federal law. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to participate in this most worthy discussion. 

The red snapper fishery is of utmost importance to the people and the coastal economy of the state of Alabama. If I can ever assist in any way, please feel free to contact me. 

ATTACHMENT 1 

GRANTS AND SUB GRANTS RECEIVED BY THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION

AND NATURAL RESOURCES/MARINE RESOURCES DIVISION

NOAA Fisheries Grants: 

Southeast Area Monitoring Assessment Program 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 195,000.00 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 222,575.00 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 272,575.00 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 213,889.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 196,625.00 

Cooperative Statistics Program 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 88,220.00 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 77,216.44 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 88,200.00 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 79,398.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 79,398.00 

Emergency Disaster Recovery Program—Round I (EDRP) 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 5,903,326.43 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 2,736,295.86 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 2,123,432.03 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 0.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 0.00 

Emergency Disaster Recovery Program—Round II (EDRP) 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 1,346,322.94 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 823,808.57 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 404,113.46 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 1,189,202.79 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 0.00 

Interjurisdictional Fisheries 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 24,544.00 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 24,550.00 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 24,545.00 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 16,654.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 22,411.00 

22 

Joint Enforcement Agreement 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 499,198.00 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 562,474.00 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 515,508.00 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 476,136.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 484,931.00 

Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission Sub Awards from NOAA 

Fisheries: 

Marine Recreational Data Collection 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 179,109.00 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 143,579.00 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 205,475.00 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 191,259.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 330,000.00 

Commercial Fisheries Trip Level Data Collection 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 151,225.00 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 173,691.00 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 169,006.50 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 138,171.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 197,470.00 

Biological Sampling of Recreational and Commercially Important Species 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 112,406.50 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 100,264.00 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 144,650.50 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 119,029.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 76,971.00 

Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council: 

Contractual Services to Assist with Council Business 

2010 ................................................................................................... $ 38,474.95 

2011 ................................................................................................... $ 30,746.55 

2012 ................................................................................................... $ 33,402.57 

2013 ................................................................................................... $ 35,000.00 

2014 ................................................................................................... $ 45,000.00 

23 

Mr. FLEMING. And we are anxious to get into questions. Unfortunately, we have been called to the Floor for a vote. So we will go 

ahead and recess. We expect to return in about 30, 35 minutes. So 

don’t get too far away, and we have plenty of questions for you. 

Thank you, and we are in recess. 

[Recess.] 

Mr. FLEMING. OK. The subcommittee comes to order. At this 

point, we will begin Member questioning of the witnesses. To allow 

all Members to participate and to ensure we can hear from all of 

our witnesses today, Members are limited to 5 minutes for their 

questions. However, if Members have additional questions, we can 

have more than one round of questioning. 

I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. 

Mr. Rauch, there is clearly a mistrust with the MRIP, the MRIP 

program. At least two states now have conducted their own recreational data collection programs for red snapper. And, by the 

way, it is not just red snapper. We have had other—it is clear that 

the data for fish surveys in general under NOAA have been too old 

and unreliable. But in the MRIP, results were not only erroneous 

but highly inflated. So, in addition, there is a time lag between 

when the data is collected and when the MRIP results are available to fishery managers. 

How is NOAA addressing these issues? 

Mr. RAUCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the hallmarks of 

the Marine Recreational Information Program or MRIP is working 

with the states to design the program to get the data that both the 

Federal and the state managers need to manage that fishery. We 

support localized efforts to try to collect that data. We actually 


91743.002.eps
24 

worked with Alabama on their program, funded part of that program. We worked with a number of other states to try to work on 

these issues to collect the data, calibrate the data, and to make it 

usable. We do look forward to that. So variations in the data are 

not to be unexpected. We are working closely with Alabama to 

align their program and to determine why there is a discrepancy 

between the numbers. And that happens in other states, too. In 

various places, the survey could be high or low, and we need to determine why it is high or low in order to calibrate that long term. 

Mr. FLEMING. All right. So, obviously, we need to do a much better job, and now with the technology we have, which is so inexpensive, we need to take advantage of some of the more creative and 

cutting-edge ways of making those measurements and reporting 

them in real-time. 

Under H.R. 3099, Mr. Miller’s bill, all data collection and management functions for the red snapper fishery would be transferred 

to the Gulf States Commission. 

Concern has been raised that the legislation might waive the requirements in the Magnuson-Stevens Act that the fishery be 

rebuilt and that annual catch limits and accountability measures 

be maintained. 

So can you comment on that concern? 

Mr. RAUCH. Well, the administration has not taken any position 

whatsoever on the bill. So, to the extent that there are concerns or 

praise for the bill, those are opinions of others. 

We do think that it is important—this fishery affects not just the 

recreational fishermen in the Gulf, and it is a very important recreational fishery, it affects a directed commercial fishery which is 

providing jobs and resources to local communities and fish throughout the country. 

And also, as I mentioned in my opening testimony, one significant source of the mortality is the juvenile red snapper that is 

caught in the shrimp fishery. So we think it is important on any 

type of management structure that they be able to deal with all of 

those sources of mortality in a coordinated manner. It certainly can 

be done, but it needs to be done because all three of those components need to be addressed together, and if you don’t look at all 

three of those components, you are going to create inconsistencies. 

Mr. FLEMING. Under the Council’s regional management plan, 

would states manage and enforce out to 200 miles? 

Mr. RAUCH. I can’t speak to the Miller bill. Currently, under the 

council system, the states can enforce out to 200 miles if the regional management is structured accordingly. 

States currently can manage their own fishermen regardless of 

where they are as long as it is consistent with Federal regulations. 

And they could enforce either directly through some sort of delegated authority or through a joint enforcement agreement with us, 

they can enforce Federal laws out to 200 miles. 

Mr. FLEMING. I have seen various scenarios where that is divided 

among states. Is this something that may lead to the requirement 

of multiple state licenses? 

Mr. RAUCH. Depending on how it is structured, if each state is 

managing it individually, you could theoretically have each state licensing fishermen, and so you would need five. You could design 

25 

a system where there is a single multi-state license. So, there are 

different ways that you can address that. 

On the Atlantic Coast, often when the fisheries are managed 

recreationally under the Atlantic States Commission’s authority, 

there are multiple state licenses that are needed. 

Mr. FLEMING. OK. My time is up. I yield to the Ranking Member. 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Rauch, let me ask you several questions. 

H.R. 3099 does not authorize additional appropriations for the 

annual stock assessments it would require the Gulf Commission to 

conduct. So, without the funding, how would the Commission pay 

for stock assessments? 

Mr. RAUCH. Thank you. That is a good question. 

Currently the Commission does contribute to the overall science 

enterprise in the Gulf. If you assign them more responsibilities, 

they will have to find those funds from somewhere. If more funds 

are not given to them, they will have to take it away from some 

of the other funding that they do, and there is a significant question about whether their stock assessments could reach things like 

the commercial landings, either in the directed commercial fishery 

or in the juvenile bycatch in the shrimp fishery. 

Theoretically they can do those things. We work with them closely on data collection, but if you add new responsibilities without 

new funding, you would have to take that money from somewhere. 

It just doesn’t—— 

Mr. SABLAN. So you—they would have to find money from 

somewhere—— 

Mr. RAUCH. Yes. 

Mr. SABLAN [continuing]. Else. 

OK. And the bill would also give the Gulf Commission regulatory 

authority over red snapper, but that the Commission does not 

employ any fishery management plan coordinators or stock assessment scientists. This is in contrast to the Atlantic States 

Commission, which has several fish. 

So do you believe the Commission has the capacity to manage 

the fishery? 

Mr. RAUCH. I believe the Commission, if given this authority, 

would have to hire new staff to support these efforts. 

Mr. SABLAN. So they don’t have—we don’t believe they have the 

present capacity to—— 

Mr. RAUCH. I believe they would have to hire some new staff. 

Mr. SABLAN. All right. So, what challenges does NOAA face when 

incorporating data collected by the states? 

Mr. RAUCH. As I said, the red snapper fishery is currently managed as a unit throughout the Gulf, and so we have to make sure 

that data we get from one state is talking the same language of the 

data that we get from another state so that we can understand the 

health of the overall Gulf-wide population. 

Some states we work better with than others. Some states have 

a long track history with others. I think collectively we try to get 

a uniform picture, but it is challenging. And from the Federal 

Government’s perspective, we sample for more than just red snapper. We sample a broad suite of things, and so we have to calibrate 

things like a directed red snapper survey with the overall effort. It 

26 

is not impossible to do. It presents challenges to do, particularly as 

new surveys come online, but we do encourage states to—we do encourage localized efforts to get data that we collectively need. It 

just creates a calibration challenge. 

Mr. SABLAN. So let me—just for the record, you also stated that 

red snapper stock is only halfway through its rebuilding target. It 

is still overfished. Am I correct? 

Mr. RAUCH. It is still—it is not rebuilt. 

Mr. SABLAN. It is what? 

Mr. RAUCH. It is not rebuilt. Yes, it is only halfway to the 

rebuilding target. 

Mr. SABLAN. My question is, it is still overfished? 

Mr. RAUCH. Yes. That is correct. 

Mr. SABLAN. So is rebuilding the stock the best way to ensure 

the highest quality, highest value for the Nation for the fishery, 

destination for the fishery? 

Mr. RAUCH. We have seen significant increases in opportunities 

and in economic value in rebuilt stocks than in overfished stocks 

across the country. There are more fish available for both the commercial and recreational fishermen. They can have longer seasons 

for a rebuilt stock. It is the goal that we are trying to work toward, 

and we are not there yet. 

Mr. SABLAN. OK. Mr. Blankenship, sir. You mentioned in your 

testimony that the Gulf Commission would need funds transferred 

from NOAA in order to manage red snapper, but the legislation before us, H.R. 3099, does not allow for such a transfer, and without 

that funding, can the Commission manage snapper effectively? And 

how much funding would be needed, do you think? 

Mr. BLANKENSHIP. The current funding that the Gulf States 

Marine Fisheries receives and the current staff, I don’t think that 

it is adequate to truly be able to manage this fishery, but if they 

were given this as a task, money comes to the Gulf States Marine 

Fisheries Commission now from NOAA fisheries for other data collection programs. You know, a lot of the funding that comes for the 

data collection in the Gulf that is managed by the Commission 

comes through NOAA now. So there is, I could see the mechanism 

where that would take place. 

Mr. SABLAN. I know my time is over, but how much money would 

be needed? 

Mr. BLANKENSHIP. The Gulf States Marine Fisheries 

Commission, in response to this bill, is putting together an estimate, and we will have that at our next meeting in March, we will 

have that information. 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you very much. 

Mr. FLEMING. Gentleman’s time is expired. 

Mr. Duncan from South Carolina is recognized. 

Mr. DUNCAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for holding 

this valuable hearing. 

Since I have been in Congress for 4 years, we have talked a lot 

about data collection, and I remember the gentleman from Florida, 

Mr. Southerland, talking about two guys in a lab coat determining 

fishing seasons and all based on computer models, and so my first 

question is for Secretary Barham from Louisiana. 

27 

I see that your state’s data collection and gathering is producing 

a much clearer picture for state management and stewardship of 

fishery resources. So the question is, how is it that your state 

measures 23 times more fish and interviewed 49 times more vessels than the Federal system? 

Mr. BARHAM. Congressmen, thank you. 

It is an allocation of manpower and assets to put on the subject, 

is what it amounts to. I notice that we were talking about 2013, 

the gap between what they estimate, because they have such a lack 

in hard numbers, they are extrapolating from such a small number, 

they computed—National Marine Fisheries computed that the 

catch for recreational landings in Louisiana was between 265,000 

and 945,000 pounds. That is 700,000 pounds difference. For the 

same period, we confirmed with our intense monitoring that it was 

between 503,000 and 549,000. That is only 45,000 pounds. 

Mr. DUNCAN. And you were using more actual data and talking 

to fishermen and measuring and counting? 

Mr. BARHAM. Absolutely, we were. We have biologists assigned. 

What we put in place in Louisiana is a free permit. It is an offshore 

landing permit. Anyone who is going offshore has to have that offshore landing permit. So—— 

Mr. DUNCAN. Excuse me just a second. 

Mr. Rauch, are you using computer models? 

Mr. RAUCH. We use a combination of computer models and actual 

samplers, data we get from samplers. 

Mr. DUNCAN. All right. I will go back to the Secretary. 

Mr. BARHAM. The sampling we do, we have biologists. We have 

biologists in the water and on the docks. We have identified the 

primary dock locations where these snapper are coming onshore. 

There are probably 20, 25 major docks that we are physically 

counting and looking and measuring these fish, so that we are literally taking thousands more samples for Louisiana. So that we 

know what that catch is, and we are following up with phone surveys and mail surveys to these people who have these free offshore 

landing permits so we know where to pool. It is about assets assigned to the responsibility. That is the difference. state is going 

to be a much better vehicle to assign those intense looks, if you 

will. 

Mr. DUNCAN. Right. I am from South Carolina, and I don’t even 

have to take my shoes off to use the digits on my feet to count that 

there is a big difference between 40,000 unit difference and 500,000 

unit difference. That is amazing. 

So, Mr. Rauch, I notice that Texas has significantly more state 

waters than Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana; and Texas allowed a year-round fishery with a higher bag limit or a catch limit 

than other states. So why did NOAA allow this to continue for 

more than 15 years and how does it affect the potential allocation 

splits between the states? 

Mr. RAUCH. Thank you, Mr. Congressman. 

The effect of that, there is only a certain number of red snapper 

that can be caught recreationally. The more that are caught in 

state waters, the less that can be caught in Federal waters. So 

when Texas has a longer season than Federal waters, we account 

for that—or any other state, frankly. This is what we did when 

28 

Louisiana or the other states extend their season. We account for 

the state landings in those waters and deduct them from the 

Federal season. So the Texas extension has the effect of limiting 

the Federal season to less time. The same would be true in any 

other state that has a season longer than the Federal season. We 

would take those fish out of the Federal quota, and we would make 

the Federal season shorter. 

Mr. DUNCAN. All right. Let me go back in the very little remaining time I have and ask, how do you feel about the accuracy of the 

state’s data? The numbers that were just spoken to by the 

Secretary, how do you weigh that accuracy, and how do you reconcile the differences, 40,000 versus 500,000? How did you 

reconcile that? 

Mr. RAUCH. Thank you, Mr. Congressman. 

It is certainly true if you have an intensive effort that is expensive and time-consuming and is something that currently the 

NOAA fisheries does not have the resources to commit to a single 

species in a single state, and states may be better positioned to do 

that. You may get a more accurate estimate. We need to compare 

that to the historical estimate of fishing in Alabama before they instituted this landings and compare it to the rest of the Gulf. We 

need to calibrate it, but we hope to be able to do that. I think we 

were in discussions with Louisiana about calibrating their survey 

in the coming years so that we can compare their landings to both 

their historical landings and to other states. So I think that we 

would welcome more accurate data as long as we can figure out 

how it relates. Is it apples to apples or is it apples to oranges, and 

that is what we are working with them now to do. 

Mr. DUNCAN. I will tell you, calibration and historic data and 

computer models seem to be out of whack. When you hear numbers 

that I just heard from Louisiana and that we have talked about in 

this committee numerous times where the actual data, interviewing the captains at the dock, looking at the catches, talking to 

fishermen, and actually doing the field work, you’ve got the resources of the Federal Government at your disposal, and I know we 

are under tight and austere times here, but I believe actual data 

of counting fish and talking to the fishermen work better than 

these computer models, and I yield back. 

Mr. FLEMING. Gentleman’s time is up. 

Chair now recognizes Mr. Byrne, the gentleman from Alabama. 

Mr. BYRNE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Rauch, what is the budget for the NOAA marine fisheries 

this year? 

Mr. RAUCH. I don’t have the exact figure in front of me, but it 

is something in the realm of $800 million to $900 million. Somewhere in that realm. 

Mr. BYRNE. So you have $900 million and you can’t give us any 

better count of the fish stock than what you have told us today? 

Mr. RAUCH. Within that—yes, we manage every fishery in the 

country from the Virgin Islands to the Northern Marianas to 

Alaska to Hawaii. We also manage the endangered species, and the 

amount of money that we can allocate to fish surveys is a line item 

in our budget, and so we do the best that we can in terms of accuracy—— 

29 

Mr. BYRNE. My constituents do the best they can to pay their taxes that make up that $900 million. Can you explain to my constituents in the state of Alabama why, with all that money, NOAA 

Marine Fisheries explicitly excludes the Alabama artificial reef 

zone from its sampling protocols? Can you explain that? 

Mr. RAUCH. In the last two stock assessments, in the 2013 stock 

assessment and in the upcoming stock assessment, we are incorporating data that is collected on artificial reefs into those stock assessments. 

Mr. BYRNE. Well, why didn’t you do it before? 

Mr. RAUCH. Historically, we haven’t been able to. We collect data 

in these areas by trawling along the bottom, and you can’t trawl— 

the gear that we have historically used you can’t trawl on artificial 

reefs. It is bad for the reefs, and it is bad for the nets. So we have 

discovered additional ways either using long lines or other kinds of 

sampling mechanisms to actually sample in there, and actually our 

partners did that. I don’t want to take full credit for that. 

Mr. BYRNE. Well, Mr. Blankenship and I went out with Dr. Bob 

Shipp, who you know, on a boat in the Gulf of Mexico, I think it 

was in May, and he had these hi-def cameras mounted on submersible vehicles to look at the actual reefs themselves to count fish 

. . . 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. We actually caught fish on the reefs so they can 

get how big they are, how old they are, all that sort of thing. He 

was able to do that with the very limited budget he has as a member of the faculty of the University of South Alabama. 

Are you telling me a Federal agency that has almost a billion 

dollars is relying on using trawl nets to find a fish that you can 

only find on a reef? Is that what you are telling us? 

Mr. RAUCH. You can find that fish in other places. 

Mr. BYRNE. I have been fishing the Gulf of Mexico my whole life. 

I have never known anybody that has found a red snapper anywhere but a reef. That is where they grow. They are reef fish. So 

why do you not sample on reefs with $900 million at your disposal? 

Mr. RAUCH. The commercial fishermen don’t set their nets on the 

reefs, sir. You can catch these fish off the reefs. The recreational 

fishermen tend to do that. 

The camera technology is relatively new technology, and we very 

much support that technology, and we are trying to work that into 

the stock assessments. We believe that this is very promising to actually do what you have suggested, to actually look at the reefs, to 

have actual hard data, and that is the portion of the data that does 

actually work into our—— 

Mr. BYRNE. You would agree that there is a large percentage of 

this fish stock on reefs. 

Mr. RAUCH. Absolutely, sir. 

Mr. BYRNE. Why would you not sample on reefs if that is where 

the large percentage of the fish stock is? 

Mr. RAUCH. We are trying to find ways to do that. 

Mr. BYRNE. Well, I just told you a way that a very much lower 

funded organization has been able to do that. How can the Federal 

agency that is charged with this, that has almost a billion dollars, 

how come you can’t do that? 

Mr. RAUCH. We are incorporating that data into our stock 

assessments. 

30 

Mr. BYRNE. You are incorporating data that somebody else has 

collected not using your funds. 

Mr. RAUCH. Much of the data that external people use to collect 

reefs and technology is using our funds. Much of the data that goes 

to the Gulf Commission. 

Mr. BYRNE. Do you have—— 

Mr. RAUCH. The Alabama survey that we have talked about—— 

Mr. BYRNE. Do you have any problem with letting some of that $900 million be used by the Gulf States Fisheries Commission to 

do its own sampling? 

Mr. RAUCH. We currently allocate some of that $900 million—— 

Mr. BYRNE. Would you be willing to allocate more if that is what 

it took to get an accurate sample of this fish stock—— 

Mr. RAUCH. We believe we have an accurate sample of this fish 

stock. 

Mr. BYRNE. Well, I think that the testimony and evidence before 

this committee directly contradicts what you have just said, and we 

have lost confidence in you. The people in the Gulf states have lost 

confidence if you. You have two of the most respected men in their 

fields sitting next to you. Obviously, from what they have said, 

they have lost confidence in you, and you have said nothing today 

to indicate to me that we should have confidence in you and provide you $900 million to do a poor job of what you are charged to 

do. 

I appreciate you being here today. I know that you are the guy 

that gets to come here and catch the flack, but, quite frankly, I 

think we have come to the point where we need to take it away 

from your organization and give it to the people that live in that 

area that will do it right and do it with sound science and in a way 

that make sense for us all. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Mr. FLEMING. Gentleman yields his time. 

Next the Chair recognizes Mr. Southerland for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Thank you, Mr. Rauch. I appreciate you 

being here, and I know we have met, and I have enjoyed our 

conversations. 

I am curious, biomass for the red snapper, by some estimations, 

has as much as doubled in the rebuild. Is that accurate, close to 

accurate? 

Mr. RAUCH. Yes, sir. From the low point of this population, it has 

close to doubled. From historical—if you go back to historical measurements of the biomass, it is not close to historic highs. I think 

if you look at my written testimony, there is a chart of the biomass 

that indicates where we are on the rebuilding trajectory. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. We have looked at some data, your own data, 

and we have seen that, since 2006, there was evidence that the red 

snapper was clearly rebuilding, and that was with 194 commercial 

days—or, excuse me, recreational days fishing with a four-fish bag 

limit. 

Now, based on that data that there is, and it is your data, it is 

not data we dreamed up, we have estimated that, or have seen 

proof that, the snapper was rebuilding. Yet, since 2007, we have 

gone from 194 days and a four-fish bag limit down to 9 days, and 

there has already been discussion at the Gulf Council that that will 

31 

be down around, from some estimations, 1 day to a high, maybe, 

of 5 days. 

So, we know that this year the recreational fishery and those anglers will be once again penalized for a fishery that has rebounded 

and continued to show enormous rebound, and yet your agency and 

a director within your agency claims that it will take until 2035— 

let me say that again 2035—with no season, by the way, in the 

South Atlantic. I mean, crumbs from the king’s table. A weekend, 

but not a season. 

Am I accurate in what I have just explained to you? 

Mr. RAUCH. So there are two different stocks in the South 

Atlantic and the Gulf. Both of them are depressed and are rebuilding. So I don’t want to confuse the two. Both of them have very 

short—— 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. But here is the thing. ‘‘Rebuilding’’ is a 

relative term. 

Mr. RAUCH. Yes. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. OK? I like absolutes. And it is an absolute 

fact that the red snapper fishery is healthy, not overfished. An arbitrarily low-set quota set by relativists is overfished, but not by 

individuals who believe in absolutes, because absolutely the fishery, the red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico, is stronger, doubled, by 

your own estimation, and we see your own data showing that it 

was rebounding in 2007 when the IFQ was put into place. 

Mr. RAUCH. So it is rebuilding. It is rebuilding at a pace that is 

much greater than we expected. It is healthier than we thought it 

would be at this point in time. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. OK. 

Mr. RAUCH. The management managers that we put in place in 

those times, both the commercial IFQ and the bycatch restrictions 

in the shrimp fishery have helped. Also what has helped is the limitations on the recreational fishery, but yes, it is rebuilding. I will 

completely agree with that. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. So if you are a recreational fisherman and 

you work 60 hours a week to take your family, your children, fishing on Saturday, and 7 years ago, you had 194 days to do that and 

the fishery has rebounded, in your own words, you just said, faster 

than anticipated, and yet the 2035 date is not getting any closer 

or not being edited down, and you are a recreational fisherman and 

you are down to 9 days now with a two-fish bag limit brought down 

from four, and you are looking now because of the comments that 

have been made at the Gulf Council meeting saying, Hey, we are 

looking at a 1-day season, perhaps at the most a 5-day season, if 

you are a recreational fisherman that continues to own a boat and 

pay the registration and buy the gas and do everything that it 

takes, the catch is now two fish, do you see the problem that your 

agency finds with maintaining integrity with the general public? 

Mr. RAUCH. There are fishermen today that can catch a red 

snapper that could not catch it 5 years ago because the stock is 

moving along the coast of Florida, but, yes, I completely agree with 

you that the average fisherman does not understand why in a rebuilding fishery like this that the season is shorter. They are 

allowed to catch more red snapper now than they have ever been 

allowed to before. The quota for the recreational fishery is higher 

32 

than they have ever been before, and yet they continue to catch 

that, even in a 9-day season. It makes it very difficult to explain 

to one fisherman who only sees what they catch how there are 

thousands of anglers and the overall Gulf catch is much higher 

than even the highest quota we have ever allocated to the recreational fisherman. 

Mr. FLEMING. OK. Gentleman’s time is expired. 

And next Mr. Jolly is recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. JOLLY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you for allowing me to be here today. I appreciate it. 

Mr. Rauch, to build on Mr. Southerland’s comments, you have acknowledged NMFS’ position is that the stock is rebuilding. You also 

said that it is still being overfished. You can’t actually have both, 

because if the stock is rebuilding, we are not overfishing. The plan 

is actually working. Right? 

Mr. RAUCH. The stock is not subject to overfishing. Overfishing 

is the act of the fishermen that drives the stock down. You would 

be correct that you cannot have overfishing and rebuilding at the 

same time. The stock is still overfished, which is a population estimate, but it is rebuilding and so overfishing has ended. 

Mr. JOLLY. Overfishing has ended? 

Mr. RAUCH. Overfishing has ended. 

Mr. JOLLY. And so the position of NMFS and the Council for reducing from 9 days to 6 days or 5 days would be as a result of 

weight as opposed to what—why if overfishing has ended, why do 

we need to reduce the number of days in a season to continue on 

the track that has been successful thus far to rebuild, taking your 

data, not even considering the state data yet. 

Mr. RAUCH. First of all, the stock assessment is going to look at 

all these numbers, and we are going to be expecting an update. So 

that update will determine how much fish are available. Every update that we have done recently has indicated more fish are available to be caught. The stock is growing. So we have increased the 

quota, the amount of fish that the recreational fisherman can 

catch. That may happen again. So that is going on now and will 

be available before next season. 

Mr. JOLLY. OK. And I am sorry. I have to move on because I 

have additional questions. You indicated NMFS does consider data, 

state-collected data. Secretary Barham, do you agree with that? Do 

you think that the Louisiana data, or Mr. Blankenship, the 

Alabama data, in any real tangible way has ever influenced decisions by NMFS or the Council? Do you think it is being appreciably 

considered? 

Mr. BARHAM. As far as Louisiana, I have my doubts that our 

information is getting the consideration it merits. 

Mr. JOLLY. Mr. Blankenship, Alabama? 

Mr. BLANKENSHIP. We are currently working with NOAA fisheries with our Alabama data from the red snapper reporting program to get that incorporated into the stock assessments and to 

make some calibration changes in the future. I will reserve judgment on how well that is going to go until we are a little further 

down the line in our discussions, but I will say that, in doing our 

own data collection with our bottom long line work in our artificial 

reef zones that were being excluded from NOAA fisheries, Mr. 

33 

Rauch is correct that that is being included in the stock assessment 

now but not at the same weight as the data that is collected by 

NOAA fisheries. So they are discounting some of the work that we 

are doing, and it doesn’t receive the same weight in the stoke assessment, so it doesn’t affect it as much as it should. 

Mr. JOLLY. Sure. And that is similarly what we hear from our 

folks in Florida, there seems to be a perfunctory consideration and 

a call for data, but at the end of the day, it seems to be pushing 

a noodle at times. 

Secretary Barham, curious, you mentioned that your fishermen 

from all sectors agreed to a fee increase to support the data collection. Is that right? 

Mr. BARHAM. Yes, sir, we did. We passed it in this past 

legislative session, and we termed it our LA Creel program. 

Mr. JOLLY. And that funds the data collection? 

Mr. BARHAM. It does, and it allows us to do what we consider a 

stellar gathering of data for Louisiana, and we are working with 

other states now across the Gulf South to tell them our experiences 

and problems, and so I think in some other states you are going 

to see programs very similar to our LA Creel. 

Mr. JOLLY. All right. Thank you. 

Mr. Rauch, very quickly, if I may ask you a Rule 40 question. 

Are you prepared to answer hopefully a pretty general question on 

that? With the sector separation between for-hire and recreational, 

within Rule 40, are there any protections for recreational if for-hire 

overfishes? Because recreational will tell you that if for-hire 

overfishes, it is going to come out of the recreational net. 

Mr. RAUCH. My understanding is if for-hire overfishes, for-hire 

will have to stop fishing, and there is a payback provision in some 

manner for them. 

Mr. JOLLY. Payback from the for-hire sector—— 

Mr. RAUCH. I believe so. You are asking about a level of detail 

that I am not aware of. I do know that there is a section of the 

Magnuson Act 407(d) which does tie the for-hire sector quota to the 

recreational sector and says that, when you are over, everybody 

stops fishing, and that is a statutory provision. 

Mr. JOLLY. Which is the recreational concern about Rule 40. 

Mr. RAUCH. Yes, and it is created by 407(d) of the Magnuson Act. 

Mr. JOLLY. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. 

Mr. Chairman, thank you again. I yield back. 

Mr. FLEMING. The gentleman yields back. 

In the interest of time, I am going to go ahead and bring the 

third panel forward. We had some more questions for the second 

panel. I just apologize. We are running out of time, and I know Mr. 

Blankenship and Secretary Barham have a lot more information to 

provide, but we will need to do that off-line. I want to thank the 

panel today and ask our third panel to step forward. 

We are now ready for our third panel, which includes Mr. David 

Cresson, President and CEO of Louisiana Chapter of Coastal 

Conservation Association; Mr. Bob Gill, Board Member, Gulf 

Seafood Institute; Captain Jim Green, Vice President, Destin 

Charter Boat Association; and Mr. Harlon Pearce, owner Harlon’s 

LA Fish, Kenner, Louisiana. 

34 

As I already mentioned, your written testimony will appear in 

full in the hearing record, so I ask that you keep your oral statements to 5 minutes as outlined in our invitation letter to you under 

Committee Rule 4(a). Also, remember that you are under the 5- 

minute limitation, so you will be under the green light for 4 minutes; yellow light for 1; and when it turns red, please immediately 

conclude your remarks. 

Mr. Cresson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to present 

testimony on H.R. 3099. 

STATEMENT OF DAVID A. CRESSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, 

LOUISIANA CHAPTER, COASTAL CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION 

Mr. CRESSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for having 

me here today. It is a real honor and thank you Members for 

allowing me to present to you today. My name is David Cresson. 

I am the executive director, as you mentioned, of the Coastal 

Conservation Association in Louisiana. In that role, I have the 

honor and privilege of serving 20,000 recreational fishermen in 

Louisiana, and I am here on their behalf today. 

I have thought a lot about what I wanted to say to you today, 

and I could go back on a lot of what you have heard here today. 

I think it is very, very clear that this system is failing. It is not 

working for anybody really, but specifically the recreational fishermen. I could talk about other things that hadn’t been mentioned 

so much, like the fact that the allocation is so messed up. We could 

talk about the 75 percent of the fishery that is now privately held. 

But I thought, instead of that or instead of going over what everybody has already said here today, I would talk to you more from 

what I do for a living and that is talk to fishermen every day. I 

am out around the state of Louisiana on the coast talking to fishermen every day, and I am a fisherman. I fish for this species and 

others all the time, so I thought I would talk from that side of 

things rather than so much about what we have already heard. 

I was in your hometown not long ago, Minden, Louisiana. I go 

up there once a year to speak to a Lion’s club. You may even be 

a member. I think you are. We are up there talking about fish 

issues, and it is amazing in Minden, Louisiana, which is 250, almost 300 miles from the coast, where there is not salt water anywhere nearby. The first question I get from my members and 

others in Minden, Louisiana, is what are we going to do to fix red 

snapper. They don’t ask about trout. They don’t ask about red fish. 

They don’t ask about bass. Those are all state-managed fish, and 

they are in great shape. They ask about red snapper in Minden, 

Louisiana, which is almost in Arkansas. So it goes to show you 

what an issue this is for recreational anglers all around Louisiana 

certainly and around the Gulf Coast. So this is an important fish. 

It is one that we need to make right. We need to fix this for the 

recreational sector. I appreciate the efforts that are going on here 

today. 

More importantly than any of that, I am a fisherman and I am 

a father. I came up fishing with my dad and creating all these 

great memories on the water. The clearest memories I have as a 

kid are on a boat with my dad, and so I wanted to pass those same 

35 

sorts of memories on to my kids. And just recently, this past summer, I was on a boat with my two sons, 10-year-old and 7-year-old 

sons. I took them red snapper fishing for the first time. It was during the 9-day season. My 7-year-old, and if you know anything 

about fishing in Louisiana, you find the first rig in more than 

about 60 feet of water, throw anything you’ve got straight to the 

bottom, and you are going to have a red snapper on your line before you click the button. Well, sure enough, he hooked into one. 

It almost pulled him over the side of the boat. The look on his face 

as he was struggling and laughing and crying a little bit to get this 

fish in was priceless, and we had a great day. Hopefully this bill 

will allow for many more days like that. 

Let’s go back 2 weeks ago, 2 weeks ago from today, we went fishing, same, me and my two sons. We were catching trout, red fish; 

red snapper is closed, as we mentioned. My 7-year-old son, who is 

now 8, looked out in the distance from the marsh, and he could see 

an oil rig, which is where we had been fishing during the summer. 

We were having kind of a slow day, and he said, Dad, do you think 

we can maybe go catch some red snapper. I said, No, we can’t go 

catch red snapper today. He said, Why? I said, Well, because we 

will get in trouble. And he said, Why? I said, Well, because the 

Government says we can’t. And he said, Are the fish gone? I said, 

No, there are more out there than there ever has been. He stopped 

for a second, and he looked up at me, and he said, Well, that is 

just stupid. 

Sometimes it takes simplifying it down to the voice of a 7-yearold kid to realize that what we are doing here is not working. Now, 

I corrected him for being disrespectful, but, in the end, he is right. 

This is not working. We appreciate Congressman Miller’s efforts 

here. We hope that you will give this every consideration, and I 

thank you for your time. I am certainly here to answer any questions you might have. 

Mr. FLEMING. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Cresson follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAVID A. CRESSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, LOUISIANA

CHAPTER OF COASTAL CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION

Thank you for the opportunity to comment here today, and thanks especially to 

Congressman Jeff Miller for introducing the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper 

Conservation Act which is of critical importance to recreational anglers in the Gulf 

of Mexico. My name is David Cresson and I am the president and CEO of the 

Louisiana Chapter of Coastal Conservation Association. CCA is the largest marine 

resource conservation group of its kind in the Nation, with more than 120,000 members, almost all of whom are recreational anglers. 

In 2013, the Governors of four Gulf states, including Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, 

sent a joint letter to the U.S. House and Senate leadership in which they labeled 

Federal fisheries management of red snapper ‘‘irretrievably broken’’ and called for 

its management to be transferred to a coordinated Gulf states partnership. The letter was a powerful declaration that the people of the Gulf Coast have lost faith in 

Federal fisheries management and for good reason. This legislation is a perfect opportunity to restore some of that faith. 

Saltwater recreational angling in the Gulf of Mexico is a huge business and a critical engine for coastal communities. It drives billions of dollars in economic activity 

each year, providing substantial benefits to the economy at the local, regional, and 

national levels. And yet, it was not until just this year that NOAA Fisheries began 

the long process of developing a national recreational fisheries policy to manage it. 

Historically, the agency has regarded recreational fishing as an after-thought and 

has attempted to manage anglers with the same tools that were developed exclusively to manage industrial fishing operations. 

36 

It hasn’t worked. 

The Federal management system is characterized by hard quotas and annual 

catch limits based on infrequent stock assessments and notoriously questionable recreational harvest data. It is a rigid management system designed to manage a relatively few commercial harvesters; not one that is conducive to creating robust 

recreational fisheries that are pursued by an extremely diverse population. 

In 2014, the red snapper season in Federal waters was 9 days and that was set 

against a red snapper population that many marine scientists believe is the healthiest it has ever been. In many places in the Gulf, it is not uncommon to hear anglers 

say that it is impossible to get a bait past the red snapper to catch anything else. 

And yet, Federal law has created a management regime in which as the fish become larger and more abundant, recreational anglers are penalized with shorter and 

shorter seasons because the recreational quota is caught more quickly. Conversely, 

using those same tools, if management was not working and the stock was deteriorating, recreational seasons would be extended and fishing opportunity increased 

because it would take longer to catch the quota. 

As it stands today, Federal management is a confusing spiral of uncertain regulations and greater mistrust in a management system that anglers increasingly see 

as punitive rather than constructive. 

Compounding the problem, NOAA Fisheries has embraced catch share programs 

to reward businesses that are able to count their catch to the pound. More than 50 

percent of the entire red snapper fishery is already privately held by less than 400 

individual commercial fishermen, and indications are that another 20 percent could 

be given to charter/for-hire businesses. These shares have been given away for free 

and the shareholders are allowed to fish year-round until their personal quota is 

caught. This, at a time when recreational anglers on their own boats face singledigit seasons on a booming stock of fish. It is no wonder that anglers believe they 

are unwelcome visitors in the Federal fisheries management process. 

Conversely, four of the five marine recreational fisheries that provide the greatest 

overall benefit to the Nation—speckled trout, redfish, striped bass and bluefish—are 

inshore species that are managed by the states. The fifth, dolphin, is managed by 

the Federal system but is a predominantly recreational species. 

The states have succeeded because their fisheries management systems fit the 

data they have available and they have made the investments to obtain current information to apply to that management. With current information in hand, state 

managers have more flexibility to adjust fishing rates and seasons to reflect current 

conditions. Whereas the Federal system imposes on millions of anglers a quote system designed for several hundred, the states have made the investments to allow 

fishing opportunity to go up and down with the health of the stock, while staying 

within an allowable mortality rate. 

State-based fishery management has proven to be far more effective for recreational fisheries, and has engineered some of the greatest marine conservation 

victories in the country. The states have a strong track record of managing their 

fishery resources in order to achieve the right balance between sustainability and 

quality fishing opportunities. The Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act 

would put proven state-based management approaches to work and solve this problem for millions of recreational anglers along the entire Gulf Coast. 

Mr. FLEMING. Mr. Gill, you are now recognized for your 

testimony. 

STATEMENT OF BOB GILL, BOARD MEMBER, GULF 

SEAFOOD INSTITUTE 

Mr. GILL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Ranking Member Sablan, and members of the 

subcommittee. 

I am Bob Gill, representing the Gulf Seafood Institute, which 

was recently formed as a nonprofit organization to focus on providing the availability of Gulf seafood for all. In summary, relative 

to bill 3099, we find it is an overly simplistic approach that doesn’t 

achieve and improve red snapper management. I would like to address some of the points that are germane to that discussion. 

37 

First of all, just transferring to the Gulf State’s Marine Fisheries 

Commission, as has been mentioned, creates more problems than 

it solves. The Commission is a fine agency, and it does excellent 

work in the Gulf, but what is being tasked through this bill are beyond its capabilities. It possesses neither the staff, the resources, 

the budget, or the expertise to accomplish that. And, even if these 

resources were provided, the learning curve would be extraordinarily steep. You all understand the difficulty in red snapper 

management. That is why we are here today. It is not an easy task. 

It is a complex one. 

From the scientific side, they have no one on staff to conduct the 

assessment, and qualified assessment scientists are few and far between, difficult to have them. The Science Center in Miami is 

having difficulty keeping qualified assessment scientists on hand. 

Another issue, which has been mentioned, is funding. It is absolutely critical, a vast number of responsibilities being tasked on the 

Commission, but no funding is provided. And as I mentioned, staff, 

resources, infrastructure, et cetera. 

Another concern is that passage and implementation of 

H.R. 3099 will dismantle the existing commercial IFQ, Individual 

Fishing Quota System. It is difficult to understand what will replace it. All we know is that we have a Federal system that is 

working well. The markets are orderly. The supply is plentiful. It 

is working well, but something will have to replace it if H.R. 3099 

is implemented. We certainly don’t want to go back to what we had 

previously. It would be difficult to conjecture a similar system 

being established under this bill. 

Mr. FLEMING. Mr. Gill, can you bring that microphone closer. We 

are going out to the Internet. We are having a little difficulty picking up, so if everyone will remember to be sure and speak directly 

into the microphone. 

Mr. GILL. My apologies, Mr. Chairman. 

So that will create a problem from the market standpoint. In addition, as you mentioned, the recent changes on the for-hire sector, 

they are at peril under this bill. There is no protection that says 

the advances being made in that part of the recreational sector will 

be maintained, and they are on their way to counting fish and getting accountability to fish under their purview. 

In addition, the allowance of not following Magnuson-Stevens Act 

precisely just to the extent practicable raises the issue of whether 

the stock is at risk for sustainability, so we have concerns in that 

regard. It would be the only species that is not fully under the 

Magnuson-Stevens Act. 

Finally, the fundamental issue that is at hand here in terms of 

the red snapper fishery is not being addressed at all. In fact, it is 

not addressed in any management plan, be it Federal or state, and 

that is numbers. The numbers suggest that if they are not addressed, it is not possible to have a reasonable season or time. For 

example, the coastal resident anglers in the Gulf are estimated at 

3 million anglers. It is estimated over 23 million angler trips per 

year. And that is just coastal residents. It does not include the 

tourists that come from beyond the coast. If the average weight of 

the fish is 7 pounds, under the current quota, there is 700,000 fish 

available, so you have 23 million angler trips from just coastal resiVerDate Mar 15 2010 08:42 Aug 11, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00041 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 J:\02 FISHERIES, WILDLIFE\02DE04 2ND SESS. PRINTING\91743.TXT DARLEN
38 

dents looking for 700,000 fish. It doesn’t work, and this current 

system doesn’t address that. Future systems need to, and, without 

it, there is no real solution. 

So, in summary, we do not see H.R. 3099 as being helpful to the 

solution. We think the Council process can improve the situation 

and come up with a good solution, and I appreciate the time and 

opportunity to express our views. Thank you. 

Mr. FLEMING. Thank you, Mr. Gill. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Gill follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF BOB GILL, OWNER, SHRIMP LANDING, CRYSTAL RIVER, 

FLORIDA REPRESENTING THE GULF SEAFOOD INSTITUTE

Chairman Fleming, Ranking Member Sablan, and members of the committee, my 

name is Bob Gill and I am pleased to be here to testify before you today on 

H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act of 2013. A Naval 

Academy graduate and Ocean Engineer, I am the owner of Shrimp Landing, a diversified, dockside wholesale/retail seafood business located in Crystal River, Florida. 

I am a former member and chairman of the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management 

Council, a current member of the Gulf Council’s Science and Statistical Committee 

and a member of its Reef Fish Advisory Panel. For purposes of today’s hearing, I 

will be speaking as a board member of the Gulf Seafood Institute (GSI), a broadbased trade group representing all facets of the Gulf of Mexico seafood supply chain 

from water to table. 

Formed in July, 2013, the Gulf Seafood Institute (GSI) came together to protect 

the Gulf’s unique culture and environment while elevating the Gulf seafood brand 

with consumers, customers and policy leaders through advocacy, education and 

science. The GSI’s board of directors represents every Gulf state as well as every 

aspect of our industry—harvesters, processors, wholesalers, retailers, restaurateurs 

and the charter-for-hire community—and is positioned to be a leading voice on key 

issues including sustainable management, seafood safety, disaster mitigation and 

recovery, and data collection. All our members share the common value of working 

to make healthful and abundant Gulf seafood available to all. Additionally, GSI 

seeks to bolster fisheries science and research to help preserve the Gulf seafood resource and contribute to the longevity of our industry. 

Today, I will briefly highlight the challenges we face with the current recreational 

red snapper management structure in the Gulf and ways that the system can and 

should be improved for the recreational community. Per the committee’s request, I 

will focus the majority of my testimony on whether the proposed regional red snapper management structure outlined in H.R. 3099 is the correct approach to solving 

this complex management struggle. 

Commercial Red Snapper Management in the Gulf is WORKING: 

It is very important to understand that the current red snapper program on 

the harvest side is working. The species is no longer undergoing overfishing and 

is now being managed under a rebuilding plan which will allow the species to rebuild back to target population levels. The commercial red snapper Individual 

Fishing Quota (IFQ) program, which began in 2007, has reduced the number of vessels and improved the operation of this fishery. The IFQ program now provides the 

harvesting sector with flexibility to fish during times that suit their needs and the 

needs of the market resulting in less pressure on the fishery, less pressure on the 

resource and a consistent supply of red snapper to meet consumer demand. While 

IFQs certainly are not a panacea for all species or all sectors, in terms of the commercial red snapper fishery in the Gulf, IFQs have proven to be a very effective tool. 

Unfortunately, the recreational red snapper sector has yet to find a similar satisfactory solution and Federal management of this side of the business remains in 

turmoil. Fishery managers, still relying on the antiquated ‘‘days at sea’’ model for 

management, have drastically reduced fishing days for recreational red snapper 

leading to serious economic implications for the entire Gulf Coast economy. While 

I agree that we must take steps to improve management of recreationally caught 

red snapper, any solution that upsets the success of the commercial red snapper 

program is not a solution at all and would only harm the industry, the markets, 

seaside communities and the millions of consumers who depend on the year-round 

availability of red snapper. 

39 

The Need for Focus in the Recreational Red Snapper Fishery: 

The enormity of the recreational sector poses unique challenges in proper fisheries 

management. Not only are there millions of stakeholders, but there is broad diversity geographically, in landing sites, time of fishing and socio-economic differences 

across the board. This makes it difficult to determine the impact this sector has on 

the resource. Not only red snapper, but all the fisheries in the Gulf. And that difficulty translates to high expense and questionable accuracy and precision of the results of attempting to assess the true effect the recreational sector on the marine 

resources of the Gulf. The statistical surveys used thus far have not reliably provided the information needed for good, let alone proper, fisheries management. It 

is clear that we need to change the way we do business if we are to make any improvement in this area. 

Fortunately, one component of the recreational fishing community in the Gulf is 

poised to do just this. During its October meeting in Mobile, Alabama, the Gulf 

Council voted 10–7 to separate the federally permitted charter-for-hire community 

from the private anglers in the Gulf, setting the stage for the charter fleet to be 

managed independently for purposes of red snapper. Concurrently, GSI has been actively working with charter boat captains across the Gulf to generate support for 

a program to collect real-time, verifiable data on reef fish using technology that can 

be as simple as a smart phone or tablet application attached to a Vessel Monitoring 

System (VMS). These systems, for example the Thorium system developed by GSI 

member company CLS America, are ready to roll out and have received overwhelming support from fishermen, stakeholders and charter captains themselves. 

This cost-effective and sleek technology will allow fishermen to quickly and accurately report their catch to a secure database administered by the National Oceanic 

and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) thus providing regulators with enough 

data to more fairly and equitably manage red snapper for charter boat fishermen 

and their customers. In response to overwhelming support from the Gulf community, the Senate Commerce, Justice, Science Appropriations Subcommittee included 

$2 million in their fiscal year 2015 bill to help Gulf Coast charter boat captains purchase these electronic data collection instruments. While the current appropriations 

process is in flux, GSI looks forward to continuing to work with this committee and 

the appropriators to see ground-breaking data collection programs supported into 

the 114th Congress. 

H.R. 3099, The Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act: 

Overall, H.R. 3099 will not solve the recreational red snapper management challenges in the Gulf. Simply shifting management authority from the Council and 

NOAA to another agency, the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission (the 

Commission), will not address the fundamental issues of a lack of data, rapidly increasing participation by huge numbers of private anglers, and a lack of accountability measures to address egregious overages on the recreational side. Further, 

H.R. 3099 does not authorize any new funding for the Commission to carry out its 

new responsibilities under this bill, neither does it address how the resource should 

be equitably allocated between the five Gulf states—an issue the five state resource 

agencies have had great difficulty solving after repeated attempts. Below are several 

points of concern with H.R. 3099 that the committee should understand before 

proceeding: 

H.R. 3099 Tasks the Commission with Tremendous New Responsibilities with No 

New Resources: 

H.R. 3099 effectively takes management authority of the entire Federal red snapper fishery away from the Department of Commerce and turns it over to the Gulf 

States Marine Fishery Commission (the Commission) and, ultimately, the five Gulf 

states. While the Commission does great work facilitating programs that benefit 

Gulf fisheries on the whole, they are not currently equipped to handle the mission 

of a de facto fisheries management agency as outlined in this legislation. Further, 

given the time lines outlined in the legislation, I question whether the Commission 

could, even if given ample financial backing, meet staff and infrastructure needs required to comply with the legislation. 

Congress established the Commission in 1949 with the mission of promoting better utilization of Gulf fisheries while promoting and protecting such fisheries and 

preventing physical waste of the resource. The Commission is comprised of three 

members from each of the five Gulf states and makes recommendations to the five 

state governments regarding management of Gulf fisheries. These recommendations 

are based on scientific studies made by experts employed by state and Federal resource agencies. While I have the utmost respect for the Commission, it is questionable whether they, and ultimately the individual states, would be any better 

40 

equipped than the Department of Commerce, NOAA and the Gulf of Mexico Fishery 

Management Council to make management decisions for red snapper. 

Specifically, H.R. 3099 tasks the Commission with vast new responsibility, 

including: 

• Determining a new data collection plan for red snapper within 1 year; 

• Determining a plan to undertake annual red snapper stock assessments 

within 1 year; 

• Preparing a red snapper fishery management plan within 1 year; 

• Holding public hearings in each of the five Gulf states within 1 year; 

• Establishing procedures for and undertaking a public comment program on 

the fishery management plan; 

• Establishing procedures for the five Gulf states to develop their respective red 

snapper management plans; 

• Determining whether the five Gulf states are adequately adopting and are in 

compliance with their respective management plans; 

• Ensuring each Gulf state is effectively enforcing their management plans; 

• Certifying that overfishing is not occurring; 

• Offering Gulf states remedies in the event of noncompliance; 

• . . . and more. 

This is a tremendous level of new responsibility for the Commission which is already facing significant funding challenges for their current programs. If the 

Commission is expected to effectively undertake the mission outlined in H.R. 3099, 

Congress must provide adequate funding and support from the outset. 

H.R. 3099 Does Not Address Increased Recreational Fishing Effort: 

Based on the current quota and allocation, and assuming a very conservative average of 7 pounds per fish, there are approximately 700,000 red snapper available 

to be caught by the recreational sector in the Gulf. According to the best available 

estimates (Marine Recreational Fisheries Statistical Survey—MRFSS/Marine 

Recreational Information Program—MRIP), there are approximately 3,000,000 

coastal resident private anglers in the Gulf and another 3,000,000 tourists that 

want to go fishing in the Gulf each year. In fact, only fishing trips targeting catch 

red snapper more than consume the available resource with only one person on the 

boat. It is clear that resource managers must determine a management plan that 

addresses the number of anglers and angler trips or else the limited supply 

of red snapper will always fall woefully short of demand. 

H.R. 3099 Shuts Down Effective Management of the Commercial Red Snapper 

Fishery: 

This legislation says nothing about preserving the current, effective management 

regime for commercially caught red snapper in the Gulf. As I discussed earlier in 

my statement, red snapper management in the Gulf commercial fishery is 

WORKING. Consumer demand for red snapper continues to grow and our commercial community is the primary source for meeting this demand on the part of retailers and restaurants throughout the country. As currently written, H.R. 3099 would 

take the entire fishery, recreational and commercial, and turn it over to the 

Commission and the five Gulf states. Without some explicit language preserving the 

current commercial management structure and the funding to replicate the existing 

infrastructure, this legislation threatens to roll back the clock on a management 

program that has brought the red snapper fishery back to life and onto a solid road 

toward recovery. 

Additionally, H.R. 3099 states that quotas may be altered 3 years from enactment. I am concerned that this leaves the door open for reassessment of the current 

allocation between recreational and commercially caught red snapper. The current 

commercial allocation based on historic catch numbers must be preserved to ensure 

consumer demand for red snapper can continue to be met. 

H.R. 3099 Needs More Thorough Economic Analysis: 

Section 10 calls for the Commission to perform biannual economic analyses with 

corresponding reports of the beneficial impacts of the red snapper fishery. While I 

applaud the intent to incorporate economic considerations in the program, the section fails to achieve its purpose. In the first place, the economic analyses are 

directed to consider the impacts of the red snapper fishery. This is not helpful to 

understanding the benefits to the Nation of this fishery which is the heart of the 

Magnuson-Stevens Act (MSA). The MSA calls for managing to maximize the net 

41 

benefits to the Nation which is not the same as economic impact. The MSA has it 

right. We need to detail what the positive benefit results from this fishery, not what 

the net cash-flow to the Gulf as called out for in this section. Second, all the called 

out for activities are for recreational activities. There are none specified for the commercial benefits such as dealers and processors. Finally not included in the required 

analysis are the social consequences of the red snapper fishery. Surely the effect on 

the people of this Nation and in the Gulf are as important as the dollars that result? 

I note that the Commission will probably lose its current economist position before 

implementation of this bill, if passed, and will have no economists on staff to accomplish this task, requiring yet additional funds to effect Section 10. 

H.R. 3099 Does Not Maintain Federal Sustainability Standards Under MagnusonStevens Act: 

Section 5 of H.R. 3099 requires the Secretary of Commerce to determine if the 

Commission’s red snapper fishery management plan is compatible, ‘‘to the extent 

practicable’’ with the sustainability requirements outlined in the Magnuson-Stevens 

Act (MSA). This loophole may render red snapper as the only major fishery in the 

entire United States that is not fully compliant with important Federal sustainability guidelines needed for both preservation of the stock as well as utilization of 

the species. Should red snapper come out of compliance with MSA standards, it 

would be questionably sustainable with the resulting devastating impact to the resource and all citizens. 

Accountability Measures Remain Unclear: 

Under H.R. 3099, the remedy for states that do not comply with the new fishery 

management plan as reported by the Commission is possible closure of Federal waters adjacent to the affected state(s). This strategy leaves state waters open, and 

possible continued fishing with significant impact to the overall stock, as well as inevitable cross boundary issues of Federal waters of an adjacent state, further imperiling stock status. In effect, the proposed remedy is a small slap on the wrist, but 

not effective in protecting the stock. Stricter accountability measures must be explicitly stated in the legislation. 

Enforcement Challenges: 

H.R. 3099 turns management of the red snapper fishery over to the five Gulf 

states and grants the Commission oversight of these state management programs. 

As previously stated, the Commission is comprised primarily of representatives from 

the five Gulf states and is, effectively, run by these states. As such, enforcement 

and oversight of the red snapper management plans put forward by the states 

would be, to a certain extent, self-enforced leaving the door open for a slippery slope 

of missed deadlines, loose enforcement and future mismanagement. I hold the 

Commission in the highest regard, however when it comes to preservation of resources as precious as red snapper, only the strictest standards for management and 

enforcement should prevail. 

Unknown Outcomes for the Charter Fleet: 

As mentioned previously, the Gulf Council recently voted to separate the federally 

permitted charter-for-hire fleet from the private angling community for purposes of 

red snapper management in the Gulf. This is a huge step forward in providing effective and accountable management for the charter community and their customers 

who come to the Gulf from all over the country to go fishing. Turning management 

of the entire red snapper fishery over to the Commission and the states threatens 

to dissolve this new charter program and rope professional for-hire fishermen and 

their customers back into the current unmanageability of the private angling community. Language should be included in the legislation that preserves this new 

charter-for-hire sector and keeps its management as part of the Federal/Council 

process. 

While clearly H.R. 3099 is not the right solution for the management concerns 

facing private anglers in the Gulf, there are options that the Council can consider, 

without any intervention on the part of Congress. However, private anglers must 

be willing to participate in the management of this stock in same way as demonstrated by commercial harvesters and professional for-hire harvesters. One such 

method for accomplishing this is the issuance of separate and limited numbers of 

red snapper permits which would allow the take of a limited number of fish per person per year. These could be sold by lottery or in some other way deemed to be fair 

and equitable by the state and Federal fisheries management authorities. Fish landed without possession of this license would be equivalent to landings after the season is closed. These permits/licenses should be sold at a significant premium to the 

42 

state recreational licenses and could work similar to the Federal Duck Stamp 

Program which allows hunters to harvest migratory waterfowl. In this way the private recreational fishing effort for this particular species can be reduced or at least 

limited and will allow private fishermen to harvest red snapper whenever is most 

convenient to them rather than during a brief derby period in the middle of the 

summer. H.R. 3099 offers nothing toward the development of a similar system for 

red snapper. A more cynical view of the intent of H.R. 3099 therefore is that it is 

an attempt to hand the management of this species to entities which will simply 

allow greater harvest and therefore the potential for wholesale mismanagement of 

the fishery. Two of the Gulf states have repeatedly and systematically allowed harvest beyond quotas established by NMFS, to the detriment of their fellow states. 

One additional state in agreement with this method of management would establish 

a majority for that approach within the Commission. 

Furthermore, if red snapper is allowed to be overfished by the states or the 

Commission, then NMFS/NOAA Fisheries may be pressured to more stringently regulate those fisheries remaining under their jurisdiction, in particular the Gulf 

Shrimp Fishery. Shrimp trawl bycatch has been sufficiently regulated and tied to 

red snapper stock abundance that it is a minor factor in the recovery of the red 

snapper stocks. Ironically the shrimp fishery and shrimp trawl bycatch would be the 

only real means left available to NMFS for controlling the harvest of the stock if 

this bill were to be implemented. 

With this testimony, I hope I have provided the committee with more clarity on 

how H.R. 3099 will impact the Gulf of Mexico seafood community and the consumers who depend on them. While I applaud the sponsors of H.R. 3099 for their 

effort to take some action, it seems that a satisfactory solution for managing the 

recreational sector of this fishery is still a long way off. However, serious strides 

have already been made in terms of the commercial and charter components of the 

fishery under the current Council-run process. I firmly believe that a solution to the 

challenges facing private red snapper fishermen can be developed without much 

change in Federal law as it is currently written. What it takes is committed leaders 

from the region addressing the real issues and hammering out a middle ground that 

works for the resource and all the stakeholders. No easy chore, but attainable if the 

right minds are set to it. 

I look forward to working with the committee on these important issues and I 

welcome any questions you may have. 

Mr. FLEMING. Mr. Green, you are now recognized for 5 minutes. 

Be sure that microphone is close by. 

STATEMENT OF CAPTAIN JIM GREEN, VICE PRESIDENT, 

DESTIN CHARTER BOAT ASSOCIATION, GULF OF MEXICO 

CHARTER FISHERMAN 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Chairman Fleming, Ranking Member 

Sablan, and members of the committee. My name is Captain Jim 

Green, and I am honored to be here today to testify before you on 

H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act of 

2013. I am 33 years old and a lifelong resident of Destin, Florida. 

Reef fish management in the Gulf of Mexico is incredibly important 

to me as it predicts my future. I am a third-generation fisherman 

out of Destin. I have worked on charter and head boats for 25 

years, and I have been a captain for 12. I manage a company that 

has three federally permitted vessels that carries around 15,000 

anglers a year. I am also the chairman of the Ad Hoc Red Snapper 

For-Hire Advisory Panel for the Gulf Council. 

I am speaking to you not only as a federally permitted business 

operator but as the vice president of the Destin Charter Boat 

Association, which represents more than 70 federally permitted 

vessels. The for-hire fishing industry is an established part of Florida’s Gulf Coast economy, and Destin is a prime example of that. 

With red snapper being a cornerstone fishery, it deserves careful 

43 

management, but I don’t believe that H.R. 3099 is the best way to 

move forward. 

We can all agree that recreational red snapper management is 

failing. While all recreational fishermen have suffered, federally 

permitted businesses and our customers have borne the brunt of it. 

Federal seasons are steadily being reduced, despite the recovering 

snapper stock, and for-hire fisherman have had a hard time trusting the data. We have had huge overages in our quotas and now 

have to deal with significant buffers to prevent these overages. 

These buffers, combined with unprecedented, noncompliant state 

seasons, have shortened the Federal season to the shortest in history. Americans who are not fortunate enough to own their own 

boats were almost completely shut out of this fishery this year 

since federally permitted vessels are not allowed to fish in the far 

more generous state water seasons. This year, in Florida, state waters were opened for private anglers and state guide boats for 53 

days. Federally permitted vessels had 9. Our industry appreciates 

the interest in helping recreational fishermen access a growing red 

snapper population, but this legislation would hurt the efforts of 

charter captains like me trying to make things better. 

For-hire management must move in a new direction. A lot of the 

leadership in our industry has worked since 2008 to move toward 

a sustainable and accountable management plan for for-hire 

vessels. 

The Gulf Council recently separated two components of the recreational fishery, private and for-hire. The for-hire sector wants to 

be able to continue to work with the Council and all stakeholders 

to map our way forward. This bill would eliminate our ability to 

do so by transferring the responsibility of red snapper management 

out of the Council’s hands. 

Separating the charter and private angling sectors by itself does 

not solve the recreational management problem, but it gives the 

Council the ability to create management plans that maximize fishing opportunities, improve data collection, and prevent overharvest 

for each component. Because the two sectors have different needs 

out of the fishery, separate management plans are the only way to 

do this. We know that status quo management with restrictive seasons and bag limits isn’t working, and we are working hard to find 

better approaches to our sector, including a real-time data reporting system. 

The Destin Charter Boat Association, as well as many other 

charter captains across the Gulf, do not want to be a part of a 

state-based system like the one set up in H.R. 3099. We are 

Federal permit holders and want a Federal management plan. 

Transferring authority of red snapper to the Gulf State 

Commission would create another layer of bureaucracy to navigate 

through. Giving authority for red snapper management to the 

states might be a solution for private anglers, but the Council is 

currently considering an amendment on this topic, and they are in 

the best position to refine the details of that plan through the 

stakeholder process that was set up through the Magnuson-Stevens 

Act. 

I am not in a position to suggest what is best for private anglers, 

but I am confident there are ways to solve the problems of short 

44 

Federal seasons and ultimately data for these anglers. We just 

need to focus on solutions that do not hurt the other components 

of the fishery. I hope my testimony today has helped the committee 

better understand the challenges facing this fishery and how we 

might resolve them in ways that respect all stakeholder needs. The 

charter industry wants to continue to work with the Council and 

design a Federal management plan that works for our industry. We 

need your support as we work to modernize data collection and also 

develop and test new management methods to that end. 

We would like to especially thank Congressman Whitman for his 

legislation to ensure fishermen are more involved in data collection, 

H.R. 3063; and Congressman Byrne for his bill to eliminate 

Section 407(d) from the Magnuson-Stevens Act. I, and the rest of 

the Destin Charter Boat Association, look forward to working with 

the committee and the Council on these issues. Thank you for the 

opportunity to testify today. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. 

Mr. FLEMING. Thank you, Captain. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Green follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JIM GREEN, GULF OF MEXICO CHARTER FISHERMAN, VICE

PRESIDENT OF DESTIN CHARTER BOAT ASSOCIATION

Chairman Fleming, Ranking Member Sablan, and members of the committee, my 

name is Capt. Jim Green and I am honored to be here today to testify before you 

on H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act of 2013. 

I am 33 years old and a lifelong resident of Destin, Florida. Reef Fish 

Management in the Gulf of Mexico is incredibly important to me as it predicts my 

future. I am a second generation fisherman out of Destin. I have worked on Charter 

and Headboats for 25 years and have been a captain for 12 years. I manage a company that has three federally permitted vessels that carry around 15,000 anglers 

a year. I am a voting member of the Ad Hoc Red Snapper For-Hire Advisory Panel 

for the Gulf Council. 

I’m speaking to you not only as a federally permitted business operator, but as 

the Vice President of the Destin Charter Boat Association, which represents more 

than 70 federally permitted vessels. The for-hire fishing industry is an established 

part of Florida’s Gulf Coast economy, and Destin is a prime example of that. A 2014 

study commissioned by the city of Destin shows that in 1 year, over 300,000 outof-region tourists injected over $90 a day into Destin’s economy. More importantly 

for this committee to know, of those 300,000 visitors, over 44 percent stated they 

made Florida their destination choice due to the opportunity to go fishing on charter 

boats. With Red Snapper being a cornerstone fishery it deserves careful management, but I don’t believe that H.R. 3099 is the best way to move forward. 

We can all agree that recreational red snapper management is failing. While all 

recreational fishermen have suffered, federally permitted businesses and our customers have borne the brunt of it. Federal seasons are steadily being reduced despite the recovering snapper stock, and for-hire fishermen have a hard time trusting 

the data. We had huge quota overages for years, and now have to deal with significant buffers to prevent these overages. These buffers, combined with unprecedented 

noncompliant state seasons, have shortened the Federal season to the shortest in 

history. Americans who are not fortunate enough to own their own boats were almost completely shut out of the fishery this year, since federally permitted vessels 

are not allowed to fish in the far more generous state water seasons. This year in 

Florida, state waters were open for private anglers and state guide boats for 53 

days; federally permitted vessels had 9 days. 

Our industry appreciates the interest in helping recreational fishermen access a 

growing red snapper population, but this legislation would hurt the efforts of charter captains like me to make things better. 

For-hire management must move in a new direction. A lot of the leadership in 

our industry has worked since 2008 to move toward a sustainable and accountable 

management plan for for-hire vessels only. The Gulf Council recently separated the 

two components of the recreational fishery—private anglers and charter-for-hire 

vessels. The for-hire sector wants to be able to continue to work with the Council 

45 

and all stakeholders to map our way forward. This bill would eliminate our ability 

to do so by transferring responsibility for all red snapper management out of the 

Council’s hands. 

Separating the charter and private angling sectors by itself does not solve the recreational management problem, but it gives the Council the ability to create management plans that maximize fishing opportunities, improve data collection, and 

prevent overharvests for each component. Because the two sectors have different 

needs out of the fishery, separate management plans are the only way to do this. 

We know that status quo management with restrictive seasons and bag limits isn’t 

working, and we are working hard to find better approaches for our sector, including 

a real-time data reporting system. 

The Destin Charter Boat Association, as well as many other charter captains 

across the Gulf, does not want to be a part of a state-based system like the one set 

up by H.R. 3099. We are Federal permit holders and want a Federal management 

plan. Our Federal permits are for multispecies, and dealing with one set of regulations for red snapper and another set for everything else would be extremely confusing. Transferring authority for red snapper to the Gulf States Commission would 

also create another layer of bureaucracy to navigate through. 

Giving authority for red snapper management to the states might be a solution 

for private anglers, but the Council is currently considering an amendment on this 

topic, and they are in the best position to refine the details of the plan through the 

process that was set up by the Magnuson-Stevens Act. I am not in a position to prescribe what is best for private anglers. But I am confident that there are ways to 

solve the problem of short Federal seasons and untimely data for these anglers, we 

just need to focus on the solutions that do not hurt the other components of the 

fishery. 

I hope that my testimony today has helped the committee better understand the 

challenges facing this fishery and how we might resolve them in ways that respect 

all stakeholders’ needs. The charter industry wants to continue to work with the 

Council to design a Federal management plan that works for our industry. We need 

your support as we work to modernize data collection and also develop and test new 

management methods. To that end, we would like to especially thank Congressman 

Rob Wittman for his legislation to ensure fishermen are more involved in the data 

collection process (H.R. 3063) and Congressman Bradley Byrne for his bill to eliminate Section 407(d) from the Magnuson-Stevens Act (H.R. 4464). H.R. 4464 would 

give recreational fishermen more flexibility to try different management approaches 

that work best for us. Both of these bills would allow everyone to truly benefit from 

the recovery of red snapper. 

I and the rest of the Destin Charter Boat Association look forward to working 

with the committee and Council on these issues. Thank you for the opportunity to 

testify, and I look forward to answering any questions you may have. 

Mr. FLEMING. Mr. Pearce, you are now recognized for 5 minutes, 

sir. 

STATEMENT OF HARLON PEARCE, OWNER, HARLON’S LA FISH, 

KENNER, LOUISIANA 

Mr. PEARCE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member 

Sablan, and members of the committee. 

My name is Harlon Pearce, and I welcome the opportunity to 

speak with you today on the issue of recreational red snapper. I am 

going to kind of focus on the legislation at hand and also focus on 

what the Council has been doing and what we have been trying to 

do to move ahead. 

As Mr. Gill has said, House Bill 3099 really doesn’t have the 

funding source; it doesn’t have the personnel in place; and it is a 

problem that could jeopardize within 3 years all the hard work in 

the harvesting component, all the hard work in the shrimp component of the fishery that has helped grow this red snapper fishery 

to where it is. We want to make sure that any legislation that 

passes—first of all, I don’t believe any legislation is necessary, I 

46 

think we can solve our problems with the Council—it doesn’t jeopardize anything, only the hard work that has been done now and 

in the past and what we will be doing now. So, with that said, I 

am not in favor of H.R. 3099 for lots of reasons. 

At the council level and at the fishery level, we have three 

components. We have a harvesting component. We have a charterfor-hire component. We have a private rec component. All these 

components prosecute their fisheries differently, and they deserve 

a different fishery management plan. With the passage of 

Amendment 40, we now have an independent charter-for-hire 

component that can begin to develop a business plan for that component of the fishery, all fisheries, hopefully, which is sorely 

needed. 

In the past, the charter-for-hire component would come to a 

meeting and the National Marine Fisheries Service would say, by 

the way, amberjack is closed on Friday. These guys would have 

bookings out for months in advance and have to figure out what 

to do. They clearly needed a way to develop a better business plan. 

Yesterday and the day before, the charter AP chaired by Mr. 

Green met and came up with some excellent ideas. They wanted 

the Council first off to begin development of an electronic monitoring program for the fishery. The Council has also been involved 

with the South Atlantic Council in working together to put all the 

parts of that puzzle together to get that electronic monitoring program for the charter-for-hire together, so that is in the works and 

could be moving ahead very quickly. The charter-for-hire 

component clearly wants to stay accountable, stay within our allocation. The way they would want to do that is, first off, they suggested that the Council go to one fish rather than two-fish limit for 

the charter-for-hire. They suggested that the Council split the season for the charter-for-hire component so that 66 percent of the 

season would be done now, and then they would see what they 

have caught so they would not overharvest their allocation. They 

clearly wanted to stay within their allocation, so they are working 

hard to do that. And then electronic reporting to me is a necessary 

component of that. We have also been working on funding sources 

through the Senate committee and through NMFS to try and find 

money to buy VMSs so that hopefully we could find some funding 

sources to count fish into 2015. That is definitely necessary. 

Regional management, I am in favor of regional management for 

the private rec fishery. Louisiana, my state of Louisiana, is submitting programs as we speak to the Council to see if we can get that 

done. I am in full support of that. I think that the way to manage 

the private recreational fishery is through regional management, 

and I think that we will be discussing that at the Council in 

January. So I hope that that will happen. 

I am chairman of the Data Collection Committee, and that is 

where the chink in our armor is. There is no doubt about that. Our 

dependence on MRIP needs to change. We need to go to real-time 

electronic reporting to solve our problems. MRIP just had a recalibration workshop that basically said it is still a work in 

progress. We don’t need a work in progress. We need numbers that 

we can manage our fishery with, and we just have to take the attiVerDate Mar 15 2010 08:42 Aug 11, 2015 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00050 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 J:\02 FISHERIES, WILDLIFE\02DE04 2ND SESS. PRINTING\91743.TXT DARLEN
47 

tude of the East and West Coast and say let’s just do it and get 

it over with. 

Again, I don’t really believe that legislation is necessary. I think 

that we can get our job done at the Council and that we are trying 

to get the job done now. The Council is a tedious and cumbersome 

process at best. It takes time. When I first got on the Council, my 

first battle cry was, I want to move at the speed of business, not 

the speed of government, but that is very difficult at the Council. 

But I believe we are actively trying to work in that direction, and 

the Council needs to consider the development of a private recreational fishery management plan to help them move into the future and help them do the things necessary to grow their fishery 

into the future, but we have to start with the right numbers. We 

have to start with the right data so we can manage it. I am a firm 

believer in the LA Creel program in Louisiana. I am a firm believer 

in what Alabama and these other states are doing. We don’t need 

to reinvent the wheel. We just need to add grease to get it moving 

quicker. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. FLEMING. OK. Well, thank you, Mr. Pearce, for your valuable 

testimony. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Pearce follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HARLON PEARCE, OWNER, HARLON’S LA FISH, KENNER, LOUISIANA

Chairman Fleming, Ranking Member Sablan, and members of the committee, my 

name is Harlon Pearce and I welcome the opportunity to speak with you today on 

the issue of recreational red snapper management in the Gulf of Mexico, as well as 

on H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act of 2013. I am the 

owner of Harlon’s LA Fish, a seafood wholesaler based in Kenner, Louisiana. I am 

a member of the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council, and I am president 

of the Gulf Seafood Institute, a non-profit organization representing the entire Gulf 

Coast seafood supply chain, including professional and recreational fishermen, processors, retailers, restaurateurs and the consumers who depend on them. 

RED SNAPPER IS IMPORTANT TO CONSUMERS AND THE GULF COAST ECONOMY

Effective and fair management of Gulf red snapper is not only a concern for the 

recreational fishing community, but for the broader Gulf Coast economy and 

consumers nationwide. While red snapper is a highly coveted sport fish, consumer 

demand for red snapper at the retail and restaurant level remains high. Red snapper is an iconic American favorite, and according to the National Restaurant 

Association, seafood sales are one of the biggest drivers of the important tourism 

industry in Louisiana, Florida and the other Gulf states. Consumer surveys indicate 

that tourists closely identify the delicious and mild flavor of red snapper with the 

American Gulf Coast. For these reasons, preserving the commercial harvest of red 

snapper is of the utmost importance to the entire seafood supply chain across the 

Gulf. 

COMMERCIAL RED SNAPPER MANAGEMENT IN THE GULF IS WORKING

Fortunately, the current management structure for commercially caught red snapper in the Gulf is WORKING. Starting in 2007, the Gulf Council and NOAA 

Fisheries (NMFS) implemented an Individual Fishing Quota (IFQ) program for the 

harvesting component of the Gulf fishery with initial allocations to active commercial fishermen based on historic catch data. While IFQs may not be a panacea for 

all sectors or all species, in the case of commercial red snapper, this system has 

proven a huge success. The species is no longer undergoing overfishing and is now 

being managed under a rebuilding plan which will allow the species to rebuild back 

to target population levels. The current commercial red snapper IFQ program provides fishermen with the flexibility to fish during times that suit their needs and 

the needs of the market resulting in a safer, more efficient fishery. With the ongoing 

successes happening in the commercial red snapper fishery, it is imperative that 

48 

any changes to current law be designed NOT to undermine these important 

advances. 

MANAGEMENT ADVANCES IN THE CHARTER-FOR-HIRE COMMUNITY

Another very important development in the Gulf red snapper community is the 

newly formed, separate charter-for-hire component. During our October meeting in 

Mobile, Alabama, the Gulf Council voted 10–7 to pass Reef Fish Amendment 40 

which separates out the federally permitted charter-for-hire community from the 

private angling community. This action, widely supported by charter boat captains 

and their customers, the seafood community, and conservationists, will increase stability for the for-hire component, increase flexibility in future management of the 

recreational sector, and minimize the chance for recreational quota overruns which 

could jeopardize the rebuilding of the red snapper stock. By managing the charter 

component separately, state and Federal managers can be more responsive to the 

needs of professional fishermen and their hundreds of thousands of non-boat owning 

customers who must plan their travel to the Gulf Coast months in advance. 

IMPORTANCE OF ELECTRONIC DATA COLLECTION

A key benefit of separating out the charter-for-hire component in the Gulf is that 

the stage is now set for a comprehensive electronic data collection program that will 

revolutionize the way in which we capture and process data on red snapper in the 

Gulf. For years, stakeholders across the Gulf have prodded NOAA and the 

Southeast Fishery Science Center (SEFSC) to utilize real-time, verifiable electronic 

data collected by fishermen at sea in order to better understand the abundance of 

this resource. Unfortunately, the Federal Government still relies on a system of regional telephone surveys administered by the Marine Recreational Information 

Program (MRIP) to determine the status of this important species. Meanwhile, new 

technology as simple as a smart phone app connected to a Vessel Monitoring System 

(VMS) on a charter boat exists and must be incorporated into the Federal 

Government’s data collection program. 

GSI member company CLS America is working closely with representatives from 

the Gulf charter-for-hire community, NOAA and other stakeholders to identify ways 

to incorporate their Thorium product into an electronic data collection program for 

the Gulf charter community. GSI also worked with Congress to include $2 million 

in the Senate version of the FY 2015 Commerce, Justice and Science Appropriations 

bill to help cover the cost of such an electronic data collection program. We look forward to working with Congress to see this funding included in future Federal appropriations bills and have this important electronic data collection program off the 

ground in 2015. 

PRIVATE ANGLING COMMUNITY IN NEED OF MANAGEMENT SOLUTIONS

While both the commercial and charter-for-hire communities are seeing great 

management improvements in red snapper, there is no question that red snapper 

management in the private angling community in the Gulf is in dire straits. In fact, 

in March, the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that the Federal 

Government violated the law by failing to properly manage the red snapper fishery 

in the Gulf by allowing recreational fishermen to exceed their share of the red snapper quota in 6 of the past 7 years without holding the sector accountable. One fundamental issue at play that of simple numbers: there is a huge demand on the part 

of fishermen and a very limited resource. Even if there were a significantly increased quota, the numbers still don’t work. Based on current figures that estimate 

3 million recreational anglers in the Gulf, if 25 percent of those fishermen caught 

one, 8-pound fish each, the entire recreational quota would be caught leaving nothing for the remaining 75 percent of fishermen. Clearly, this formula is simply 

unsustainable. We must determine a way to equitably divide up the fish in a way 

that allows anglers continued access while also preserving the resource for the 

future. 

At present, the Council’s primary tool for management on the private angling side 

is the ‘‘days-at-sea’’ model. This year’s 9-day season caused great frustration among 

fishermen and policymakers alike, but strategies are on the table for moving past 

this limited management regime, such as regional management, tagging systems 

and more. The Council process as outlined under Magnuson-Stevens provides 

the Council and its stakeholders with the appropriate tools and authority 

to develop innovative solutions without any changes to Federal law. While 

the process may seem lengthy and tedious at times, I have full confidence that an 

equitable solution will be devised. As a Council Member and President of GSI, I look 

forward to working closely with our allies in the recreational community to develop 

49 

alternative management systems for the betterment of all stakeholders and preservation of the resource itself. 

H.R. 3099: A MISGUIDED APPROACH

While an overhaul in the management of recreationally caught red snapper in the 

Gulf is needed, I have serious reservations about the plan outlined in H.R. 3099, 

the ‘‘Gulf Red Snapper Conservation Act of 2013.’’ Based on my experience as a seafood business owner and Member of the Gulf Council, I would like to bring the 

following concerns to the attention of the committee: 

• H.R. 3099 Does Not Take into Account Red Snapper Abundance in 

Federal vs. State Waters: As you know, red snapper primarily occurs and 

is caught in Federal waters, not state waters, which is why it was originally 

placed under Federal management. The legislation inaccurately states that 

red snapper ‘‘ordinarily are found shoreward of coastal waters.’’ The five Gulf 

states already have the authority to manage fishing in state waters. If red 

snapper were ‘‘ordinarily’’ caught in ‘‘coastal waters,’’ there would be no need 

for Federal management at all, not to mention new legislation. 

• Enforcement at the State Level will be Insufficient: H.R. 3099 proposes 

to turn over management of an overfished species to the Gulf States Marine 

Fisheries Commission (the Commission) and, ultimately, the Gulf states, thus 

removing the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS)’s authority to close 

Federal waters based on the determination that overfishing is occurring. The 

Federal Government will also lose its authority to preempt a state that allows 

a harvest level that jeopardizes the sustainability of the stock. This authority 

is critical to preservation of this important stock. Under this proposal, effective management and enforcement authority over red snapper will become 

even more ineffective, again threatening the rebuilding of this once overfished 

stock. 

• State Sustainability Standards Must Adhere to Federal Standards 

under MSA: The Gulf states (primarily Florida and Texas) have not adopted 

regulations for red snapper in their state waters that are consistent with the 

Fishery Management Plan (FMP) and rebuilding plan. Although not explicitly 

stated, it is apparent that the standards for determining ‘‘sustainable 

harvest’’ would be substantially decreased under a state-run program. 

• Fisheries Enforcement at the Commission Level Unclear: H.R. 3099 

grants the Commission authority to enforce new state red snapper programs. 

While the Commission is highly qualified to make recommendations to the 

Governors and legislatures of the five Gulf states regarding fisheries management, the Commission has no regulatory or enforcement authority, nor is it 

provided with that authority under H.R. 3099. Under this bill, the process by 

which the Commission would address overfishing in any one state could allow 

for substantial overfishing to occur before any enforcement measure, if any, 

is taken. This is not conservation. 

• Serious Implications for the Commercial Fishing Community and 

Consumers: Under H.R. 3099, the states would be allowed to completely 

eliminate commercial red snapper fishing after 3 years, with no protections 

for fishermen’s investments, including vessels, infrastructure, Federal permits 

and quotas. Further, the entire commercial IFQ system, administered by 

NMFS, would be eliminated leaving commercial harvesters and the consumers who rely on them at risk for losing their entire allocation, not to mention leaving the red snapper stock, which is rebounding under the commercial 

IFQ system, at risk. Additionally, the Commission and the states would then 

have to develop a new management plan for commercial red snapper, with 

little or no additional resources. H.R. 3099 seems to provide benefits only to 

private recreational anglers at the expense of professional fishermen whose 

entire livelihoods depend on their access privileges. 

• H.R. 3099 Does Not Provide Any Resources for Data Collection: Current red snapper data collection and stock assessment efforts are limited due 

to funding and staff resources. H.R. 3099 simply reorganizes the responsibilities of management without providing what improved management actually 

needs: the funding and human resources to do the necessary data collection 

and stock assessments. 

In addition to the concerns listed above, I also fully support the points outlined 

in my fellow witness and GSI board member Bob Gill’s testimony. Mr. Gill and I 

50 

have served together on the Gulf Council, make our livings in the seafood community and understand fully the importance of preserving red snapper in the Gulf. 

While drastic management solutions are needed, it is clear that programs outlined 

in H.R. 3099 are not the right approach. In fact, of all the red snapper bills introduced during the 113th Congress, very little could be improved with passage of any 

one. On the contrary, most of these bills will result in a worsened, not bettered, 

management system. 

In closing, while the Council’s process can be tedious and cumbersome at times, 

it does work. The drastic improvements to commercial management of red snapper 

and the new charter-for-hire program underway now illustrate that the transparent, 

regional management approach as administered by NOAA and the Gulf Council 

with authority granted under the Magnuson-Stevens Act (MSA) is the most effective 

means to preserve our delicate fishery resources while ensuring access for all 

Americans. The Council is also currently discussing the possible benefits of a regional management approach for the red snapper private angling community similar 

to what the East Coast is developing for summer flounder. On the East Coast, the 

Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) has divided the summer 

flounder recreational management area into several smaller regions, each with their 

own size and bag limits designed to best meet the needs of their respective states. 

The overall intent of this regional management regime is to provide more equity in 

recreational harvest opportunities along the East Coast—an outcome that the Gulf 

Council could also pursue without any action from Congress. In addition, my state 

of Louisiana has also submitted to NMFS a plan to follow the summer flounder 

model for red snapper in state waters, which is yet another indication that congressional action here is unnecessary at this time. 

Thank you for welcoming my testimony today and I look forward to your 

questions. 

Mr. FLEMING. At this point, we will begin Member questioning 

of the witnesses. To allow all Members to participate and to ensure 

we can hear from all of our witnesses today, Members are limited 

to 5 minutes for their questions. If we have additional questions, 

we may have a second round. 

I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. 

Mr. Cresson, in your opinion would H.R. 3099 still work if it 

only applied to the recreational sector of the red snapper fishery? 

You gave a very inspiring discussion about the multigenerational 

effect of fishing and really sportsmanship in general. The slogan of 

our state is, ‘‘A Sportsman’s Paradise.’’ It is so valuable, and as 

Secretary Barham so eloquently discussed how we put resources 

into getting it right for the constituents in Louisiana. So how would 

this work for recreational anglers? 

Mr. CRESSON. Thank you for the question, Congressman 

Fleming. I hadn’t thought about it specifically the way you asked 

it—Would it work if it were only for the recreational sector? My 

guess is that since our state in Louisiana and apparently the other 

states as well, have the best data, it would work best for all the 

sectors. So you never hear people fuss in Louisiana about the staterun commercial seafood businesses because they are very well run. 

They are very accountable. They are very well sustainable. They 

are doing a great job. Those are state run. So as far as whether 

we should separate this out and let red snapper commercially stay 

with the Federal Government and recreational go to H.R. 3099 or 

to the Gulf State Commission, I hadn’t thought about it, but it 

seems to me the best data is with the state, so all the sectors 

should go under there. So I think this would work very well for recreational fishermen, regardless, because as we have heard very 

clearly here today, the best data is being collected on recreational 

51 

fishermen by the state agencies, boots on the ground, biologists at 

the dock, phone calls, emails after the fact. The data is unquestionably better, so certainly H.R. 3099 would get us to a point where 

that is the system we are using, and it would certainly be a better 

system than what is going on now. 

Mr. FLEMING. OK. Thank you. 

In NOAA’s testimony, Mr. Rauch noted that under the red 

snapper commercial catch tier system the number of vessels 

participating in the fishery has been reduced by 28 percent. As the 

for-hire sector moves ever closer to a catch tier system of management, is there concern that there will be a similar reduction in 

vessels and jobs? 

Mr. CRESSON. Absolutely, yes, sir. As a matter of fact, not long 

after the vote at the Gulf Council to approve sector separation 

came out, there were already solicitations going out to those in the 

charter industry to buy their permits or to buy their quotas or 

whatever it might be. So the design of that program is to reduce 

the fleet and reduce the effort. We certainly don’t want to see that 

happen to the charter industry. You have great gentlemen, like Mr. 

Green, who are out here working hard providing a great opportunity for recreational anglers who don’t have boats. We need to 

make sure that they are all able to sustain their businesses. And 

I can tell you, I don’t know so much about Alabama and Florida, 

but in Louisiana, we have small, single-boat charter captain operators that don’t necessarily have the resources to put into things like 

electronic reporting. And when people talk about the fact that the 

entire charter industry is in favor of electronic reporting on their 

boats, I can tell you they haven’t talked to the vast majority of the 

charter captains in Louisiana because none of them that I have 

talked to are. 

Mr. FLEMING. Right. And as I understand, it is quite a problem 

in the charter industry when seasons are so small, so short, are unpredictable because oftentimes, the charter process takes months 

for reservations and other things. People don’t just suddenly walk 

on a boat in one single day. This is something that requires 

planning. 

Mr. CRESSON. Yes. Certainly most of the charter captains in 

Louisiana are booking their trips for summer 2015 right now. People are making long travel plans to get down there. They can’t 

come on the drop of a hat. When you have 9 days, keep in mind, 

9 days, 4 of which are weekend days, 5 of which are weekdays, it 

is hard for people to get off during the week and go snapper fishing, so you really have only 4 days, and if only 2 of those are fishable because it is windy or for other reasons, you are talking about 

very few fishable days, very hard for charter captains and others 

to make plans. 

Mr. FLEMING. And somehow they have to cover their costs just 

in that brief period of time, the cost of the boat, the insurance, the 

licenses, all the other things that go along with that. 

Well, I see my time is up, so I will now recognize the Ranking 

Member for questions. 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and good 

afternoon, everyone. Let me start with Mr. Gill. I am glad you referenced the Federal Duck Stamp, the program that Chairman 

52 

Fleming recently bolstered with the passage of H.R. 5069. You 

mentioned that red snapper management must address the number 

of anglers, the number of trips to be successful. Can the Duck 

Stamp be used as a model for a snapper stamp? Could proceeds be 

used to fund stock assessments much like Duck Stamp funds are 

used for wetland conservation? 

Mr. GILL. Thank you Ranking Member Sablan. I believe it could. 

I think the important factor here is that the discussion of the numbers side of the problem, the inequity between the 40 anglers and 

the one fish for the 40 anglers needs to be part of that discussion, 

and one approach might be the Duck Stamp approach, not necessarily the only way to approach it. But if we don’t recognize that 

there are a lot of angler trips looking for one fish, we won’t ever 

find a solution. 

Mr. SABLAN. So would moving to a snapper stamp system have 

the potential to create the year-round red snapper seasons that Mr. 

Cresson complains private anglers do not have but which commercial boats and now charter vessels enjoy. If anglers have a certain 

number of stamps or tags, couldn’t they use them any time? 

Mr. GILL. Correct. That is one approach that has been mentioned. Tags, stamps in some fashion recognizes the number problem and attempts to address it and permits the holder of the tag 

or stamp to fish when they would like. 

Mr. SABLAN. Mr. Green, would you please discuss the benefits of 

sector separation to the charter fleet in the Gulf Coast economy? 

Mr. GREEN. Yes, sir, thank you for the question, Congressman. 

The benefits would be that the American public that relies on the 

for-hire vessels for access, their allocation got locked in. They are 

no longer at this point being squeezed out of the fishery no matter 

what management practice is in place for sector separation. By 

breaking away and giving us our allocation, it helps us to explore 

different management alternatives that might not be accepted in 

the private angling community where as it might benefit our businesses and the tourists that frequent our coastal communities. 

Mr. SABLAN. OK. Would you elaborate please on the difficulty of 

separating red snapper out for regional management when your 

Federal permit covers a number of reef fish? 

Mr. GREEN. Yes, sir. Thank for the question. On my boat, anglers 

catch red snapper, Vermilion, Gag Grouper, Red Grouper; it goes 

on and on. All these species, almost all of them, except for one, has 

a compliant season when you are talking about state and Federal. 

As you know, red snapper doesn’t. And by moving that to the state 

commissions, Federal permit holders would have an even further 

disadvantage as our needs in the fishery differ from the private angling community. It would also add another burden to the for-hire 

stakeholders as they would have to deal with two governing bodies 

to conduct business and representation at those levels. It would 

also undermine the opportunity that the Gulf Council has now 

given us to manage ourselves in a manner which is pliable for all 

for-hire fishermen. 

Mr. SABLAN. Mr. Pearce, is the Gulf Council already set to consider a regional management concept for red snapper in January? 

And if so, is this legislation necessary, sir? 

53 

Mr. PEARCE. Yes. I think regional management has been on the 

table for a year or so now. And part of the problem we had was 

the inability of the states to solve an allocation problem among the 

states. That has been solved now. The states have figured out a 

number, a percentage of the allocation for each state, so that 

throws it back on the table. Something else that puts it back on 

the table is that part of the problem with regional management in 

the past is we needed a three-quarter majority vote to delegate the 

authority for the state. 

Mr. SABLAN. So is the legislation we have before us still 

necessary? 

Mr. PEARCE. No. 

Mr. SABLAN. No. All right. Would you please describe the importance of the commercial red snapper fishery to the West Coast 

economy and the benefits it provides to the Nation as a whole, and 

could you make it quick, Mr. Pearce? 

Mr. PEARCE. Yes. Real quick. It is clear we have to take care of 

the citizens of this country. The harvesting component clearly takes 

care of the citizens in Chicago, New York, San Francisco, as well 

as the Gulf Coast, but when it comes to the Gulf Coast, in 

New Orleans in particular, no one comes to New Orleans to eat a 

steak. It is a fish. And fish is a very important part of the tourism 

across the whole Gulf Coast of the United States. And so it is very 

important that we have a consistent, reliable source for the 

American public, for the restaurants, for the consumers and the retailers, and have one that can be fished year around as it has been 

fished now. 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. FLEMING. The gentleman’s time is up. 

The Chair recognizes Mr. Southerland from Florida. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Mr. Green, thank you for being here. I live 

about 45 minutes from you, so I know you know who I am, and I 

know the Destin fleet. Have you all identified the 28 percent of 

your fleet that is willing to go out of business? Yes, I didn’t think 

so. Because that is exactly what is going to happen, OK, and you 

know it and I know it. 

Mr. GREEN. If I may, Congressman, 28 percent of us have 

already gone out of business and that was due to—— 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Right. And that was before sector separation. 

Mr. GREEN. An insufficient management plan for our sector. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. So have you identified the additional 28 percent, once they go into a catch share system, IFQ, have you identified the additional 28 percent, on top of the 28 percent now that 

you have already admitted, so now we are up to 56 percent of family businesses, generational businesses, have you identified the additional 28 percent or have you had 28 percent volunteer and say, 

you know what, we are going to take one for the team, so we are 

going to go out of business? Have you done that? 

Mr. GREEN. Congressman, thank for the question. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. I am sure you appreciate that question. 

Mr. GREEN. It is quite all right. There is the issue—— 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. It is the answer that is wrong, that is not all 

right. The question may be fine. 

54 

Mr. GREEN. I would appreciate it if you would listen to my 

answer before you call it wrong. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Sure. 

Mr. GREEN. In the for-hire management, in our limited access 

privilege program of permits, we have a number of them that 

aren’t necessarily actively fishing in it, so we believe that 28, 20, 

30 percent of those permits are what we determine as laden and 

possibly not actively in the fishery anyway. So if those numbers are 

being counted against us and we set up a registry or a data collection program that proves that, then possibly nobody would go out 

of business, and we would quit being penalized for the number of 

permits that aren’t actually actively fishing in the fishery. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Were you in favor of repealing 30(b)? 

Mr. GREEN. At that time, without Amendment 40 on the table 

and a chance to manage myself, I certainly was, sir. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. So you were in favor of repealing 30(b). Were 

you in favor of sector separation? 

Mr. GREEN. In the beginning, no, because there were a lot of uncertainties, but as we moved into the reduced amount of access because of state noncompliant seasons, I moved to find a way to 

manage myself than to rely on others. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. OK, and you and I would agree there. So you 

must have felt somewhat corralled when Mr. Crabtree was stated 

as saying, Hey, if we repeal 30(b), we will never get sector separation. You must have felt like maybe the healthiest horse in the glue 

factory as you moved toward the refusal and the change in direction by Mr. Crabtree to repeal 30(b)? 

Mr. GREEN. I appreciate that. That is an interesting way of putting it. I didn’t feel corralled. I felt like it was a time to move forward, and 30(b) offered, it was not a solution for a long-term plan. 

It was a short-term solution to an access problem that we were getting pushed out of. Amendment 40 to me, after digesting it and 

seeing exactly how that would play out, that became more apparent 

to me that that might be a good thing since the growth of the user 

groups of the private recreational anglers have become more politically expedient to push for a bigger season for them and us get 

pushed out. So it was a developing thing. I don’t know if it was corralled, but it was definitely a feeling of needing to take some action 

to assert ourselves, and to me, Amendment 40 did that by securing 

the allocation for our businesses. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. I have talked to commercial fishermen who 

brokered the deal back in 2007, and you are on the similar path. 

We don’t have to relive history, and if we ignore history, we are 

destined to repeat it. You are moving down the same path as commercial fishermen, and they all used the word ‘‘coral’’ back in 2007. 

And you say, move on and it is time for a new day. I don’t think 

the 56 percent or the 28 that have yet to be identified would admit 

that. 

I am curious, do you own catch shares? 

Mr. GREEN. Catch shares to me is a very broad term. My plan 

and what I have put forward is a permitted fishing quota where 

an allocation would be designated—— 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Do you have IFQs? 

55 

Mr. GREEN. I would not want an IFQ. I would not want an individual to take ownership of the resource. Now, as owning a permit 

and being accessed to that, I believe that the allocation should be 

tied to the permit, and as that permit is a privilege, it can be taken 

away, as where an IFQ program, if I had IFQ and passed away, 

my wife would now be the owner of it and then our children and 

their children. I don’t believe the ownership of a resource is a good 

thing, but I believe that we can develop a plan that will put the 

allocation with the permit, and, therefore, that permit could be sold 

to the next generation to ensure the generational transfer of this 

industry or, in a bad situation, be totally removed and expire and 

those fish be put back into a pool that the ones that are actively 

fishing can participate in. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. I see my time is expiring, but I think you just 

admitted that the Government actually owns the property of the 

fish. 

Mr. GREEN. I believe the people which make the Government 

own the fish, sir. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. I yield back. 

Mr. FLEMING. The gentleman yields back. 

Mr. Jolly is recognized. 

Mr. JOLLY. No questions. 

Mr. FLEMING. You do not have any questions? 

Mr. JOLLY. I do not have any questions. I would be happy to 

yield my time to Mr. Southerland, but I would leave it to the discretion of the Chair. 

Mr. FLEMING. Basically, what we are going to do is offer another 

round. We are slow adjourners around here. I think what we will 

do at this point is have another round but just open it up to whatever lingering questions. I just have one question, and I will just 

offer to other members to ask questions as well. So I recognize myself for one question. 

Again, Mr. Cresson, several witnesses cite the growing recreational sector and the increasing need for more fish for this sector. Several witnesses also cite the demand for commercially 

caught red snapper at Gulf restaurants and hotels. While 

H.R. 3099 would protect the current allocation of red snapper between the commercial and recreational sector for 3 years, would it 

be better if this legislation included a schedule for increasing the 

recreational quota as the overall biomass increased, as the Council 

is currently debating, while maintaining a floor for the commercial 

sectors quota? 

Mr. CRESSON. Well, that is a good question. And, again, it is one 

that I haven’t put a lot of thought into, but I can tell you this, I 

want what is best for our seafood industry and for our recreational 

industry, of course. So if the plan you are discussing here would 

be the best way to make sure we have sustainable seafood on our 

tables in Louisiana and across the country, then that is great. I 

love Louisiana seafood. I love going to restaurants and making sure 

that they have good, fresh Gulf-caught seafood. I have never 

walked out of a restaurant because they didn’t have red snapper 

that day, but if they had grouper or amberjack or mahi, then I am 

just fine. But, nonetheless, we need to make sure that whichever 

plan we put in place, and if it is H.R. 3099, that it includes at its 

56 

core using the best available data to make all those decisions. I 

hope that answers your question. 

Mr. FLEMING. Sure. We will go down the panel. 

Mr. Gill, would you like to comment? 

Mr. GILL. I think it is of the utmost importance, as Mr. Cresson 

said, that we maintain the equity for all factors. That says that 

there is food for America’s consumers, because 98 or so percent of 

American red snapper are consumed domestically. Likewise there 

needs to be as much as possible a quota available for private recreational and charter-for-hire. So maintaining that equity and that 

balance is difficult, and obviously, the perspectives of some are different than others, but if that plan accomplishes that, then we can 

support that. 

Mr. FLEMING. Captain Green? 

Mr. GREEN. I believe that, as Mr. Gill stated, I believe there 

needs to be a balance. And I believe that seafood is a major protein 

that is desired across the country. Like Mr. Cresson, I have never 

walked out because red snapper wasn’t on the menu, but, then 

again, I get access to red snapper more than most. I think that 

when we approach these issues, that equality be brought out and 

make sure that each sector has an acceptable amount and that nobody is getting gluttonous in the allocation. 

Mr. FLEMING. Mr. Pearce? 

Mr. PEARCE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, even as it 

may seem in the harvesting component, we still don’t have enough 

fish. We are always searching for more production. Just as a recreational fisherman needs to catch more fish than what he has. So 

any change in that allocation would not help us in that end. Also 

the Socioeconomic Committee on the Council basically said that 

any reallocation isn’t economically feasible. It doesn’t help. It 

doesn’t do anything. So I really think that the best way for us to 

do this is to develop a better management scheme for the private 

rec. 

Mr. FLEMING. Thank you. That concludes my questions. 

Ranking Member, Mr. Sablan? 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pearce, as a current member of the Gulf Council, can you 

discuss the different responsibilities of the Council and the Gulf 

States Marine Fisheries Commission, and what resources and authorities does the Council have that the Commission lacks? 

Mr. PEARCE. It is clear the Council has regulatory authority. It 

has enforcement authority. It has a lot of the authorities that are 

necessary to manage any fishery. It has the ability to develop it. 

Whereas I am a big proponent of the Gulf States Marine Fisheries 

Commission, they are basically a depository, and they take ownership of all the data in the Gulf, and they make sure that that data 

gets used correctly into the state and into the Federal management 

system. They do some minor stock assessment work, but clearly, 

they are not geared up to do the job that the Council is doing right 

now. And I think that with H.R. 3099, that responsibility becomes 

even tougher because in a couple or 3 years, everything is going to 

change. And then the Magnuson may not be considered at that 

time. The harvest component can be done away with at that time. 

So I think that the clear focus of Gulf States Marine Fisheries 

57 

Commission is to advise the states as to what to do to be a depository and control the data as it comes in from the different states 

through the states’ organizations and through the trip ticket programs that all the states happen to have right now that help us 

manage those fisheries, but they are not set up or geared up or financially sound enough or have the ability to do what the Council 

can do. 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you, Mr. Pearce. 

Mr. Gill, even if with its regulatory authority and additional 

staff, the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission has struggled to manage some stock sustainability, particularly striped bass, 

which is on the brink of becoming overfished again, H.R. 3099 

would exempt the red snapper fishery from requirements under the 

Magnuson-Stevens Act, such as ending overfishing, setting annual 

catch limits and the rebuilding the stock. Would this help or hurt 

the fishery? 

Mr. GILL. Thank you, Ranking Member Sablan. I believe it would 

hurt the fishery because the bill currently has language that compliance with the Magnuson-Stevens Act is to the extent practicable. 

It doesn’t define what that extent is. So, with the exception of the 

definitions that define overfishing, et cetera, the compliance with 

the Magnuson-Stevens Act, as you mentioned for annual catch 

limits or any of those sorts of things, could not be held. And 

Magnuson-Stevens Act has demonstrated that, if managed properly, the species under MSA are fully sustainable. You take sections away from that, and you can no longer make that claim. 

Mr. SABLAN. All right. You also mentioned in your testimony 

that the charter sector is working toward providing real-time 

verifiable data on snapper landings. The commercial sector already 

lost this, but private anglers are not required to and have shown 

little interest in doing so, even though there are complaints about 

weak data. Do you think that private anglers have a responsibility 

to contribute to data collection efforts? 

Mr. GILL. I think all users of the resource have that responsibility, be they for-hire, be they harvesting sector, be they private 

recreational fisherman. 

Mr. SABLAN. Thank you. My last question, Mr. Chairman, is for 

Captain Green. I am sure that there are costs to running a business, charter business or for-hire, plus for gasoline, maintenance of 

a boat, slip fees, insurance and everything, but are only red snappers caught by recreational fishermen, or are other fish also caught 

by recreational fishermen? Do they only go for red snappers or for 

just recreation, or do they go for other fish? It looks like if we stop 

red snapper fishing, if we reduce it down to 9 days, that the whole 

thing is going to collapse? 

Mr. GREEN. Yes, sir, we do catch other fish, and it is important 

to also collect the data on those, too. I run a head boat, and I am 

required by the National Marine Fisheries to report my data weekly. There are 68 of us out of 1,100 that do that. It is extremely 

important. There is more to the Gulf than red snapper, but it is 

a cornerstone fishery. And it is important that we make sure that 

we collect data properly on all of it, and I think the data collection 

is really polarized with the red snapper because of how much it is 

sought after by the Gulf entirely. 

58 

Mr. SABLAN. OK. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman, my time is up. I think this is going to be the last 

hearing we have in this Congress. Right? 

I want to thank everybody. It is been a great 2 years, Mr. 

Chairman. 

Actually, I have learned so much about red snapper. I have seen 

some of the pictures Mr. Southerland brought. Beautiful fish. I 

think I am going to find a way to come down to Louisiana. Maybe 

not Florida yet, but Louisiana, just to try some of the fish. Seriously, I am from the Islands, and your fish look so wonderful. And 

in the islands, we only catch fish to eat. We don’t catch and release. We catch and eat. Thank you. 

Mr. FLEMING. Thank you. I want to thank the Ranking Member 

for his great work and friendship, and we visited his beautiful 

Saipan just the other day and enjoyed that, and you are welcome 

to Louisiana any time. Come see us, and we will show you a good 

time and a lot of good eating fish. 

The Chair now yields to the gentleman from Florida. Before I 

yield to him, I also want to say to him how much we appreciate 

his service here. He is going to be leaving us for a little while, but 

we think we may see him back sooner than later, and I just want 

to thank you for this being the last hearing of the 113th Congress, 

all the great work and personal friendship that I have enjoyed with 

you, Steve Southerland. 

And I yield to your time. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Mr. Chairman, thank you. 

It has truly been an honor and I want to say to you, you have 

done a great job, Mr. Sablan. 

Thank you. You are a wonderfully kind man, very generous, very 

kind, and want always to do the right thing. 

So thank you very much for the spirit in which both of you 

conduct yourself in leading our discussions here. 

I want to ask a couple more questions, and I want to say I have 

reserved judgment on the bill, the H.R. 3099. So, contrary to what 

some that own catch shares would like to say, I am not on this bill 

yet, but I do feel like asking some questions. 

And, you know, Mr. Green, you and I had a healthy exchange 

here a few minutes ago, and I want to ask you—I want to ask you 

and Harlon, who I have enjoyed working with over the last several 

years, what happens to a $5.50 pound price for red snapper if a 

healthy fishery is determined in the South Atlantic and the red 

snapper is opened up? What effect would that have on a $5.50 

price? 

Mr. GREEN. I believe that is you. 

Mr. PEARCE. Well, supply and demand, of course, is what affects 

any market you get into. So any increase in supply could affect 

price, but the demand for snapper is so strong right now that I 

don’t think you are going to see a whole lot of price problems or 

price drops with any snapper fisher right now. It would have to get 

a whole lot more production to really affect this price with what is 

going on right now. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. But, I mean, if there is great evidence that 

people are chumming snapper to the top and catching them on the 

top water lures in the South Atlantic, and even though we 

59 

haven’t—it has been closed for 5 years and, you know, we have a 

weekend to fish in the South Atlantic, one would have to conclude 

that there is a reason for that. 

Mr. PEARCE. A reason for the prices? 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Well, no, no, no. I mean, there are some that 

certainly could speculate that there is a reason for not opening up 

or even having a survey in the South Atlantic. So I know it expands beyond where you currently are in the Gulf, but it is a South 

Atlantic issue as well and there seems to be great aggravation— 

and there seems to be, I guess, some economics at play here that— 

listen, I am assuming we all are somewhat familiar with economics. If you are in business, you certainly are. Supply and demand. 

And if the numbers grow, if you have greater numbers of fish going 

into a market, typically the market price of that fish will be decreased, that seems to be a law of nature as well as a law of economics. Is that true? 

Mr. PEARCE. If things are as they are, you are probably right, but 

things aren’t going to be as they are, Mr. Southerland. 

First off, there are different programs in play right now. The 

Gulf group that is doing a tag fishery for red snapper that is in 

high demand, high demand, and we are looking at different mechanisms to manage our fisheries in the Gulf in a different way. We 

are not in the commodity marketplace with this fishery. We don’t 

want to be in the commodity marketplace with any of our fisheries. 

So we have to create better programs that continue to increase the 

price to continue to get it done, and we are doing that with specialized programs. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. But you have to admit that there are some 

that are inside of the fisheries world that have expressed the desire 

for a commodities market. 

Mr. PEARCE. I can understand that. I really do. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Well, no. They are there. Correct? You admit 

that. 

Mr. PEARCE. Oh, yes. I mean, in every market there is, but there 

is a commodity market of different fish and different species, but 

yet with red snapper, as prized as it is by everybody at this table, 

our ability to not change that and make it like with the Gulf Wild 

Program that it is something that is special, that something that 

is better, which it really is. We only catch 2 percent of the fish in 

the Gulf of red snapper. That is all—2 percent. So we are talking 

about a fishery that is 2 percent of what we do across the board. 

All of us here, recreationally and commercially, in the harvesting 

sector. So our job, not only with snapper, with all of our fisheries, 

shrimp, you name it, is to take it to a different level and to make 

sure that our fishermen maintain the price levels no matter what 

happens, and you are going to have a commodity market for a lot 

of stuff, but you still have to be able to develop that market that 

maintains the price structure that we have to have for our 

fishermen. 

In Galveston, for instance, right now there sushi bars that are 

demanding 2-hour-old fish, and they are paying $15 a pound for 

that 2-hour-old fish. So there are differences and different ways to 

create markets, create different things, and in this country, our 

60 

goal is to do a better job with what we have and to try and stay 

as far out of the commodity market as we can. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. What I am saying, though, is I would say if 

you have a sushi market that is going to pay you premium dollar 

for a red snapper, there are some in this industry that are happy 

to take that red snapper away from a recreational fisherman like 

Mr. Cresson down here to line their pockets to sell that fish to the 

sushi man. 

Mr. PEARCE. I disagree. I don’t want—— 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Now, come—— 

Mr. PEARCE. Mr. Southerland, you and I are good friends, but I 

am going to tell you, I don’t want to take a fish out of his pocket. 

I want to put more in his pocket, and my goal as a harvesting component is to do our job and do it correctly and to help Mr. Cresson, 

help him have a better day and help him catch more fish. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. One thing I have learned here, Harlon—— 

Mr. PEARCE. Yes. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND [continuing]. You are my friend. 

Mr. PEARCE. Yes. You are right. We are going to go hunting. 

Mr. SOUTHERLAND. Four years. Follow the money. 

I yield back. 

Mr. FLEMING. Gentleman yields back. Mr. Jolly still has no 

questions. 

Therefore, I just want to say before closing, again, to remind everyone, this is our last hearing in the 113th Congress, and I want 

to thank, first of all, our witnesses for all of the time, travel, investment that you have made both into this issue and also in helping us learn more about what is really a very complex issue, one 

in which we all agree that there are more red snapper than we 

think there are by way of many ways of measuring that, and we 

need to have more access to that, and that states need to have 

more input into this. 

I also want to give a special thanks to our staff, our committee 

staff on both sides of the aisle, for doing a splendid job throughout 

the 113th Congress and look forward to working with you all in one 

capacity or another at that time. 

I also ask unanimous consent to include in the hearing record 

the following documents: a letter from the Congressional 

Sportsmen’s Foundation and a letter from the American 

Sportfishing Association. 

There being no objection, so ordered. 

I want to thank Members and staff for their work today, and 

wish everyone happy holidays going forward, and with that there 

is no further business. 

[Whereupon, at 12:46 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

61 

[ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

AMERICAN SPORTFISHING ASSOCIATION, 

ALEXANDRIA, VA, 

DECEMBER 2, 2014. 

Hon. JOHN FLEMING, Chairman, 

Hon. GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, Ranking Member, 

House Subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife, Oceans and Insular Affairs, 

Washington, DC 20510. 

DEAR CHAIRMAN FLEMING AND RANKING MEMBER SABLAN: 

On behalf of the nation’s recreational fishing industry, the American Sportfishing 

Association (ASA) offers its support for the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper 

Conservation Act of 2013 (H.R. 3099). This bill will help to ensure the long-term 

conservation of Gulf of Mexico red snapper while concurrently improving the 

economies of the Gulf states. 

As the nation’s recreational fishing trade association, ASA represents sportfishing 

manufacturers, retailers, wholesalers, and angler advocacy groups, as well as the interests of America’s 46 million recreational anglers. ASA also safeguards and promotes the social, economic, and conservation values of sportfishing in America, 

which result in a $115 billion-a-year impact on the nation’s economy. 

With a fishery characterized as more robust than ever before, federal management methods have nevertheless resulted in inexplicably and severely shortened 

recreational red snapper seasons, causing substantial harm to the economies of Gulf 

coast communities. Consequently, in 2014, all five Gulf States were non-compliant 

with federal regulations on red snapper in state waters and have requested that 

state management of the red snapper fishery replace the current federal 

management. 

State management would result in improved management of Gulf red snapper for 

the betterment of the fishery and the entire regional economy in which recreational 

fishing contributes more than $10 billion in annual economic activity. 

On behalf of the recreational fishing industry, I respectfully request that you 

support H.R. 3099 and work toward its passage. 

Sincerely, 

MIKE LEONARD, 

Ocean Resource Policy Director. 

CONGRESSIONAL SPORTSMEN’S FOUNDATION, 

WASHINGTON, DC, 

DECEMBER 1, 2014. 

Hon. JOHN FLEMING, Chairman, 

Hon. GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, Ranking Member, 

House Subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife, Oceans and Insular Affairs, 

Washington, DC 20515. 

DEAR CHAIRMAN FLEMING AND RANKING MEMBER SABLAN: 

As president of the Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation (CSF), I would like to 

thank you for holding a hearing on the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation 

Act (H.R. 3099) and for the opportunity to discuss the important issue of red snapper management that effects millions of recreational anglers. CSF, which works 

with the largest bipartisan, bicameral caucus in the U.S. Congress, supports 

H.R. 3099, which currently has twenty bipartisan cosponsors and aligns with a call 

from four Gulf States Governors for Congress to take action to reverse the damaging 

economic impacts currently resulting from an ‘‘irretrievably broken’’ system of 

federal management of Gulf red snapper. 

Despite the healthiest population of red snapper on record, June 1 of this year 

signaled the start of the shortest federal recreational red snapper season in the history of the Gulf of Mexico. The inability of the National Marine Fisheries Service 

and the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council to provide angling opportunities proportional to the rapid growth of the red snapper population is symptomatic 

62 

of a fatally flawed federal management system that is systematically failing Gulf 

Coast anglers and the communities they support. 

Ultimately, the on-going red snapper debacle in the Gulf is the result of a larger 

problem with the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act 

(MSA). Currently, MSA’s overall management system is designed exclusively for 

commercial fishing and lacks a formal process and incentive to update allocations 

based on the best value for our nation. Collectively, this management strategy continues to penalize the growing recreational sector and stifles the otherwise overwhelmingly positive economic impacts recreational anglers have on local 

communities. 

H.R. 3099 offers the best solution by establishing a coordinated Gulf States partnership for red snapper management through which the states would fully comply 

with a management plan approved and adopted by the Gulf States Marines 

Fisheries Commission (GSMFC). The partnership would be similar to how the 

Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission manages striped bass and how the 

GSMFC cooperatively manages red drum and spotted seatrout. Like these examples, 

state-based fisheries management has proven to be far more effective than federal 

management at balancing the needs of the commercial and recreational sectors, 

while ensuring sound species conservation. 

Finally, H.R. 3099 includes provisions requiring that the Commission develop and 

execute a strategy for increasing the number of stock assessments, improve interstate collaboration in the collection and utilization of fishery data, and work with 

the Secretary of Commerce to develop an economic impact report for the red snapper 

fishery on a biennial basis. Taken as a whole, these legislative proposals will result 

in improved management of Gulf red snapper for the betterment of commercial and 

recreational fisheries, the entire Gulf Coast economy, and the nation. 

Respectfully, 

JEFF CRANE, 

President. 

DECEMBER 3, 2014. 

Hon. DOC HASTINGS, Chairman, 

Hon. PETER DEFAZIO, Ranking Member, 

House Committee on Natural Resources, 

Washington, DC 20515. 

DEAR CHAIRMAN HASTINGS AND RANKING MEMBER DEFAZIO: 

As commercial fishermen from across the Gulf of Mexico, we are writing to share 

our perspective on two pieces of legislation introduced in Congress that would have 

a significant impact on our fishery and our industry. In particular, we are writing 

in opposition to H.R. 3099, the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Conservation Act of 

2013, and in support of H.R. 3063, the Healthy Fisheries through Better Science 

Act. 

The current management of the commercial red snapper fishery is working. Not 

long ago we were restricted to fishing a few short weeks of the year on days set 

by regulators, and the red snapper population was in decline. Today, we fish year 

round and the fish stock is rebounding. This flexibility allows us to provide fresh, 

quality seafood to meet growing consumer demand for fresh U.S. fish. We also provide better paying jobs and are not forced to put ourselves or our crews at risk fishing during dangerous storms. This success is critical to our industry because red 

snapper is such an important species to our businesses. 

Red snapper and all other fisheries that occur mainly in offshore Federal Gulf 

waters are currently managed by the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council 

(the Council) as authorized by Congress. However, H.R. 3099 would move the responsibility for red snapper management to the Gulf States Marine Fisheries 

Commission (the Commission). While the bill is intended to increase the role of 

states in management, it would simply create more layers of government. Sixteen 

of the 17 voting members of the Council are already nominated or appointed by Gulf 

state governors. Moving management to the Commission would not increase the 

states’ role, but it would disrupt the successes we have had because the Commission 

is not as well equipped to manage offshore fisheries as the Council. In addition, 

63 

H.R. 3099 would strip the conservation and accountability requirements put in 

place under the Magnuson-Stevens Act (MSA). This would hurt all Gulf fishermen 

and could take us back to the days of overfishing. Finally, we are deeply concerned 

with a provision in the bill that would allow for the reduction of commercial red 

snapper quota. This is a critical species for our industry since the Gulf’s recreational 

fishermen already take home 80% of the most popular fish in the Gulf, including 

overwhelming majorities of amberjack, red drum, speckled trout, king mackerel and 

triggerfish. The current allocation of red snapper quota is shared roughly 50-50 

between the commercial and recreational sectors and we believe it should stay that 

way. 

Reforms are needed to improve the performance of the recreational red snapper 

fishery and the benefits it can receive from the rebuilding population. Delegating 

more responsibility to state agencies could be the right approach for recreational 

fishermen and the Council is currently considering a proposal (Amendment 39) to 

do that. We would look forward to working with you and your committee if our experience could assist in exploring options and making these difficult decisions. However, we strongly believe that the commercial industry should remain under the 

oversight of the Council. 

Instead, we ask Congress to adopt H.R. 3063, the Healthy Fisheries through 

Better Science Act, sponsored by Representative Rob Wittman (VA). This bill maintains the conservation standards in the MSA, requires the Secretary of Commerce 

to set a schedule for stock assessments and ensures that fishermen, academics and 

other experienced parties contribute to the data collection and analysis process. 

H.R. 3063 would improve the information available to managers and fishermen, 

and we urge Congress to approve it. 

Thank you for the opportunity to share our views on these important issues. We 

look forward to working with you. 

Sincerely, 

BUDDY GUINDON, 

Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Shareholders’ Alliance. 

JIM ZURBRICK, 

Fish for America. 

GLEN BROOKS, 

Gulf Fishermen’s Association. 

WAYNE WERNER, 

Gulf Coast Professional Fishermen’s Association. 

[LIST OF DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD RETAINED IN THE

COMMITTEE’S OFFICIAL FILES]

City of Destin, Florida, Economic Impact Analysis of 

Charter Fishing and Recreational Boating Along the 

Destin Harbor, Submitted for the Record by Captain Jim 

Green 

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