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94–993 PDF 2015

S. HRG. 114–26 

HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF 

VANESSA SUTHERLAND TO BE A MEMBER AND 

CHAIRPERSON OF THE CHEMICAL SAFETY BOARD 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

APRIL 22, 2015 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma, Chairman 

DAVID VITTER, Louisiana 

JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming 

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia 

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho 

JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas 

JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama 

ROGER WICKER, Mississippi 

DEB FISCHER, Nebraska 

MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota 

DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska 

BARBARA BOXER, California 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont 

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island 

JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon 

KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York 

CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey 

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts 

RYAN JACKSON, Majority Staff Director 

BETTINA POIRIER, Democratic Staff Director 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

APRIL 22, 2015 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Inhofe, Hon. James M., U.S. Senator from the State of Oklahoma .................... 2 

Boxer, Hon. Barbara, U.S. Senator from the State of California ........................ 3 

Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L., U.S. Senator from the State of Maryland, prepared 

statement .............................................................................................................. 33 

WITNESS 

Sutherland, Vanessa Allen, nominated to be a Member and Chairperson 

of the Chemical Safety Board ............................................................................. 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 8 

Responses to additional questions from: .........................................................

Senator Inhofe ........................................................................................... 12 

Senator Markey and Senator Rounds ...................................................... 23 

(1) 

HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF VANESSA 

SUTHERLAND TO BE A MEMBER AND 

CHAIRPERSON OF THE CHEMICAL SAFETY 

BOARD 

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 22, 2015 

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS, 

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:33 a.m. in room 406, 

Dirksen Senate Building, Hon. James Inhofe (chairman of the committee) presiding. 

Present: Senators Inhofe, Fischer, Rounds, Boxer, and Gillibrand. 

Senator INHOFE. We welcome our witness. Vanessa, I appreciate 

the time that you gave me, filling me in on your background and 

your intentions. I appreciate it very much. 

There are three must-ask questions. First of all, do you agree, if 

confirmed, to appear before this committee, or designated members 

of this committee and other appropriate committees of the Congress, and provide information subject to appropriate and necessary 

security protection with respect to your responsibilities? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I do. 

Senator INHOFE. Do you agree to ensure that testimony, briefings 

and documents in electronic and other forms of communication of 

information are provided to this committee, its staff and other appropriate committees in a timely manner? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I do. 

Senator INHOFE. Do you know of any matters which you may or 

may not have disclosed that might place you in a conflict of interest 

if you are confirmed? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I do not. 

Senator INHOFE. First of all, Ms. Sutherland, thank you for being 

here today. 

I want you to introduce your family, particularly that cute little 

girl back there. 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. That is Sydney Sutherland who got a free pass 

and excused absence from kindergarten today to come. Next to her 

is what I thought was my mini-me until she sits next to her father 

and it is actually his mini-me, Emmanuelle Sutherland. 

We have some colleagues from DOT with whom I have worked 

for the last 4 years throughout different agencies and modes. 

Senator INHOFE. Very good. Thank you. 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I think at some point, my mother will make 

it through security. 
2 

Senator INHOFE. Does she have a security problem? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. No, just a little slow in walking. 

Senator INHOFE. All right. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES M. INHOFE, 

U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA 

Senator INHOFE. The Chemical Safety Board is a deeply troubled 

agency and its next Chairman will have to address a number of 

issues relating to how the agency is managed. 

Just last Tuesday, the EPA Inspector General, who acts as the 

CSB Inspector General, told our oversight subcommittee that the 

prior chairman, Rafael Moure-Eraso, likely committed perjury and 

other crimes during his tenure at the CSB. Thankfully, Mr. MoureEraso has resigned, but his legacy of mismanagement, harassment, 

and turmoil remains. 

For example, in a July 30, 2013 report, the EPA Inspector General said ‘‘CSB does not have an effective management system to 

meet its established performance goal to conduct incident investigations and safety studies concerning releases of hazardous chemical 

substances.’’ 

On June 19, 2014 former CSB Board Member Beth Rosenberg 

testified to a House committee that, in her time on the CSB Board, 

‘‘Those whose opinions differ from those of senior leadership or the 

Chair are marginalized and vilified. At the CSB, disagreement is 

seen as disloyalty. Criticism is not welcome and staff fear retaliation.’’ 

On March 4, 2015, current board member Mark Griffon testified 

to a House committee that ‘‘management deficiencies, including an 

untenable turnover rate, have also contributed to the inefficiencies 

in completing investigations.’’ 

On January 28, 2015, despite the congressional and Inspector 

General investigations about their mismanagement, former Chairman Moure-Eraso, with the cooperation of Board Member Ehrlich, 

took action to give the Chairman and Managing Director complete 

control of the CSB by dissolving 18 Board Orders that spelled out 

authorities for individual board members and approving a new 

order that removes board oversight of the actions of the Chairman. 

The public and even the other CSB Board member, Mr. Griffon, 

had no notice of the plans to restructure CSB operations. 

According to investigations conducted by the House Oversight 

and Government Reform Committee, the former Chairman, the 

Managing Director, and the General Counsel used private email accounts to hide their plans for operating the CSB from other board 

members and CSB staff. After the EPA Inspector General learned 

about this, he sent a January 2015 report to President Obama concluding that Mr. Moure-Eraso and two of his senior officials violated the Federal Records Act. 

In a March 14, 2015, letter to President Obama, both Senator 

Rounds and I asked for the immediate resignation of Mr. Rafael 

Moure-Eraso. Two weeks later, Mr. Moure-Eraso resigned. 

Mr. Moure-Eraso has now left the CSB and you have been nominated to take his place. The senior staff, implicated in numerous 

investigations alongside the previous chairman, unfortunately remain. 
3 

Given the current state of affairs at the CSB, I will be very interested to hear first, how you plan to address the mismanagement 

and toxic work environment at the CSB, and two, your views on 

what authority should be held by the Chairman of the CSB and 

what authority should be held by the Board as a whole. 

Senator Boxer. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Inhofe follows:] 

STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES M. INHOFE, U.S. SENATOR

FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

Ms. Sutherland, thank you for being here today. 

The Chemical Safety Board is a deeply troubled agency and its next Chairman 

will have to address a number of issues relating to how the agency is managed. 

Just last Tuesday, the EPA Inspector General (who acts as the CSB Inspector 

General) told our oversight subcommittee that the prior Chairman, Rafael MoureEraso, likely committed perjury and other crimes during his tenure at the CSB. 

Thankfully, Mr. Moure-Eraso has resigned. But his legacy of mismanagement, 

harassment, and turmoil remains. For example: 

In a July 30, 2013 report the EPA Inspector General said that: 

CSB does not have an effective management system to meet its established performance goal to ‘‘[c]onduct incident investigations and safety studies concerning releases of hazardous chemical substances.’’ 

On June 19, 2014 former CSB Board Member Beth Rosenberg testified to a House 

committee that, in her time on the CSB Board: 

Those whose opinions differed from those of senior leadership or the Chair are 

marginalized and vilified. At the CSB, disagreement is seen as disloyalty. Criticism 

is not welcome and staff fear retaliation. 

On March 4, 2015 current Board Member Mark Griffon testified to a House committee that ‘‘management deficiencies—including an untenable turnover rate—have 

also contributed to the inefficiencies in completing investigations.’’ 

On January 28, 2015, despite the congressional and Inspector General investigations about their mismanagement, former Chairman Moure-Eraso, with the cooperation of Board Member Ehrlich, took action to give the Chairman and Managing Director complete control of the CSB by dissolving 18 Board Orders that spelled out 

authorities for individual Board members and approving a new order that removes 

Board oversight of the actions of the Chairman. 

The public and even the other CSB Board member, Mr. Griffon, had no notice of 

the plans to restructure CSB operations. 

According to investigations conducted by the House Oversight and Government 

Reform Committee, the former Chairman, the Managing Director, and the General 

Counsel used private e-mail accounts to hide their plans for operating the CSB from 

other Board members and CSB staff. 

After the EPA Inspector General learned about this, he sent a January 2015 report to President Obama concluding that Mr. Moure-Eraso and two of his senior officials violated the Federal Records Act. 

In a March 14, 2015, letter to President Obama, both Senator Rounds and I asked 

for the immediate resignation of Mr. Rafael Moure-Eraso. Two weeks later, Mr. 

Moure-Eraso resigned. 

Mr. Moure-Eraso has now left the CSB and you have been nominated to take his 

place. 

Given the current state of affairs at the CSB, I will be very interested to hear— 

1. How you plan to address the mismanagement and toxic work environment at 

the CSB, and 

2. Your views on what authority should be held by the Chairman of the CSB and 

what authority should be held by the Board as a whole. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BARBARA BOXER, 

U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

Senator BOXER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Welcome, and to your family as well. The little one may not 

know exactly what this is about but she knows it is important. I 

think she will remember it. 
4 

I want to begin by welcoming you, Vanessa Sutherland, to the 

Committee on Environment and Public Works as we consider your 

nomination. 

The confirmation of qualified individuals to lead Federal agencies 

is an important responsibility of the Senate. It is critical that we 

move forward with the nominations under the jurisdiction of this 

committee so that our Federal agencies can fulfill their mission to 

serve the American people. 

I just recently looked at the ratings that Congress has. I am 

sorry to say it is very low. One of the issues I hear from people at 

home is, why is it that we do not move these nominations. We need 

to do that. I do not care whether you have a Democrat in the White 

House or a Republican, or whether I like that person or not; it is 

immaterial. The point is every President deserves to have a team 

in place. 

There is another Safety Board nominee waiting, Kristen 

Kulinowski, to be a member of the CSB. Since we have all of her 

paperwork, I certainly hope we can move forward with her nomination because if we do not have boards that have their full membership, sometimes they can become completely paralyzed and cannot 

do anything because they do not have enough members. 

Ms. Sutherland currently serves as Chief Counsel to the Pipeline 

and Hazardous Material Safety Administration of the U.S. Department of Transportation. She has held that position since October 

2011. 

The CSB plays a critical role in protecting our communities from 

chemical hazards by investigating industrial chemical accidents involving fatalities, serious injuries, or substantial property damages 

and making recommendations to industry and Federal and State 

agencies so that similar events might be prevented. 

Two years ago this month, a massive explosion at a fertilizer distribution plant in West, Texas, killed 15 people, injured hundreds 

more, and damaged or destroyed homes, businesses, and three unoccupied schools. We shudder to think if those schools had been occupied what we would have been dealing with. 

After the disaster in West, Texas, President Obama issued an 

Executive Order establishing a working group to conduct a comprehensive review of our chemical safety and security programs 

and asked them to develop recommendations for improving these 

programs. However, I am very concerned that despite the clear 

risks posed by our Nation’s chemical facilities, very little progress 

has been made to improve safety. 

Ms. Sutherland, if confirmed, you are going to face a number of 

challenges, including tackling the backlog of open investigations, 

the recent resignation of the Chairman, and making sure that everyone pulls together to address the management and governance 

issues between the Chairman and other members of the Board. 

Many of those have been cited by my friend, Senator Inhofe. 

The problems that preceded you were bad. We have to call it 

what it is, so you have a daunting challenge but a tremendous opportunity. 

I have found, watching as long as I have and being involved in 

trying to get things done, leadership matters. I am very interested 
5 

in your nomination. I believe that you have the requisite background to take on these challenges. It is a huge responsibility. 

Not everyone is going to love you. That is the price you pay when 

you step into a leadership role. I know that to be true. However, 

I believe what former President Clinton said to me a long time ago, 

you have to be strong when you are a leader. You have to be willing to take the blows. 

I think you have a lot of challenges. In my question time, I will 

ask you about those but I am very hopeful that you have what it 

takes to get this job done. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Boxer follows:] 

STATEMENT OF HON. BARBARA BOXER, U.S. SENATOR

FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

I want to begin by welcoming Vanessa Sutherland to the Committee on Environment and Public Works (EPW) today as we consider her nomination to be the next 

Chairman of the Chemical Safety Board (CSB). 

The confirmation of qualified individuals to lead Federal agencies is an important 

responsibility of the Senate. It is critical that we move forward with the nominations under the jurisdiction of this Committee so that our Federal agencies can fulfill their mission to serve the American people. In addition to Ms. Sutherland, the 

President has nominated Kristen Kulinowski to be a Member of the CSB and, since 

we have all of her paperwork, we should move forward with her nomination as soon 

as possible. 

Ms. Sutherland currently serves as Chief Counsel to the Pipeline and Hazardous 

Material Safety Administration of the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT). 

This is a position she has held since October 2011. 

The CSB plays a critical role in protecting our communities from chemical hazards by investigating industrial chemical accidents involving fatalities, serious injuries, or substantial property damages and making recommendations to industry and 

Federal and State agencies so that similar events might be prevented. 

Two years ago this month, a massive explosion at a fertilizer distribution plant 

in West, Texas, killed 15 people, injured hundreds more, and damaged or destroyed 

homes, businesses, and three unoccupied schools. After the disaster in West, Texas, 

President Obama issued an Executive Order establishing a Working Group to conduct a comprehensive review of our chemical safety and security programs and develop recommendations for improving these programs. However, I am very concerned that despite the clear risks posed by our nation’s chemical facilities, very little progress has been made to improve safety. 

If confirmed as Chairman of the CSB, Ms. Sutherland will face a number of challenges, including tackling the backlog of open investigations, the recent resignation 

of the Chairman, and addressing management and governance issues between the 

Chairman and other members of the Board. 

The No. 1 priority of the CSB is safety. Ms. Sutherland, I need you to take these 

challenges on and be committed to the crucial safety mission of the agency. It is 

a huge responsibility but also a key opportunity. 

I look forward to hearing from you about your vision for the CSB and how you 

intend to move the agency forward. 

Senator INHOFE. Thank you, Senator Boxer. 

Let me make an observation. Senator Boxer and I do agree on 

a lot of things and we work well together. We have a little bit different understanding on the advice and consent of the committees. 

I have always felt, yes, the President should be given every opportunity to surround himself with his own people. 

Senator BOXER. Or she. 

Senator INHOFE. Or she. The advice and consent is very important. It is well ingrained in our system, so we always take it seriously. 

We will recognize you now, Vanessa, for 5 minutes. 
6 

STATEMENT OF VANESSA ALLEN SUTHERLAND, NOMINATED 

TO BE A MEMBER AND CHAIRPERSON OF THE CHEMICAL 

SAFETY BOARD 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you, Chairman Inhofe, Ranking Member Boxer, and distinguished members of the committee. 

I am Vanessa Allen Sutherland and I am honored to have been 

nominated by President Obama to be the next Chairperson of the 

U.S. Chemical Safety Board, the CSB. 

I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge members of 

my family and friends here today who have encouraged, advised 

and supported me significantly throughout this process and long 

before it. 

The CSB plays a unique and vital role investigating the most significant chemical disasters at fixed industrial sites, and making 

safety recommendations to prevent future loss of life and property. 

Although fortunately major disasters are rare, when they do 

occur they can have significant and lasting impacts on workers, 

employers, and communities. The Board is a non-regulatory agency 

whose investigations are not designed to punish or find fault, but 

rather to help all of us learn from these tragedies. 

First, a bit about who I am and why I am so excited about this 

nomination. My background is as a practicing attorney, and I hold 

an MBA from American University. After serving in both government and industry for many years, in 2011, I was appointed as 

Chief Counsel of the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline 

and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, or PHMSA. 

PHMSA is involved in overseeing many of the same industries 

and similar hazards that the CSB investigates. As chief counsel, I 

manage a team of 31 lawyers advising the Administrator and senior DOT personnel on hazardous materials policies, interagency relationships, media and congressional affairs, investigative plans, 

and employment issues. 

Improving chemical safety is an issue that holds great significance for me. Within a year of my joining PHMSA, there was a serious gas pipeline explosion in West Virginia. The Administrator 

and I went to the site, where among others we met Ms. Sue 

Bonham, whose home was located next to the pipeline. Her story 

and testimony is one that I will never forget. 

She described to us in vivid detail the experience of living 

through a major explosion. As she would testify to the Senate, ‘‘I 

stood in the center of my home where it was trembling, shifting, 

shaking, grinding all around me; the ground rumbling beneath me, 

thinking the earth would open up at any moment and swallow me.’’ 

She recalled looking up from under her dining room table ‘‘only to 

see everything sizzling, blistering or melting.’’ 

While Ms. Bonham miraculously survived this explosion, her 

heart-wrenching account is all too similar to the workers and residents who have experienced the industrial chemical accidents that 

the CSB investigates. 

From the residents of West, Texas, who saw much of their town 

destroyed by an ammonium nitrate blast in 2013, to the brave 

workers on the Deepwater Horizon, 11 of whom perished, these experiences are all eerily familiar and analogous. 
7 

Despite its small size, just 40 people with an $11 million annual 

budget, the CSB has been in the forefront determining the technical causes of these accidents and highlighting opportunities for 

improvement. 

CSB investigators drew attention to the unsafe storage of ammonium nitrate at the West fertilizer depot and were also first to put 

forward a detailed explanation for why the Deepwater Horizon’s 

blowout preventer failed to operate. 

The same safety management systems and practices that we 

have sought to promote for pipeline safety are equally important in 

the chemical sector. These include implementing good engineering 

practices, worker training and procedures, equipment inspections, 

and above all a safety culture that permeates throughout the organization, and influences all decisions from the CEO downward. 

Over the years, the CSB has played an important role in promoting these practices in the chemical sector. I have always believed that safety is a shared responsibility. It is shared among 

company personnel, government agencies, standard-setting bodies, 

local emergency planners and responders, and educational institutions. 

For the public to feel safe from low-frequency, high consequence 

chemical disasters, all these organizations need to work together 

collaboratively toward a common purpose. From my perspective, 

the CSB, through its nearly 100 major investigations over the 

years, has amassed a tremendous wealth of knowledge on chemical 

accident hazards. 

If confirmed by the Senate, I hope to use my term in office to encourage even greater use of this knowledge by industry, government agencies, and others for accident prevention and response. I 

believe the CSB’s work is a tremendous and often untapped resource for these organizations. With education and collaboration, 

we hope the Senate will not be hearing from another Sue Bonham. 

Once again, I am honored by the President’s nomination. I will 

be happy to answer your questions. Thank you for the opportunity 

to appear here today. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Sutherland follows:] 
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Senator INHOFE. Thank you, Ms. Sutherland. 

We are going to start off with 5-minute rounds. I think my questions will take a little longer than that so we will be having a second round. However, our votes are at 10:45 a.m., so my guess is 

that is going to be a drop dead time. 

I think we all agree that CSB needs a fresh start under new 

leadership and not continuation of the past policies. You and I 

talked about that in my office. 

To clear the air, I want to ask you a few questions for the record 

about your interactions with CSB. How many times have you spoken to Mr. Moure-Eraso, Mr. Horowitz and Mr. Loeb before today? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I was in the office, preparing for this particular hearing, retrieving information and I happened to be there 

the day Dr. Moure-Eraso was leaving, so I met with him for the 

first time. I had never met him before. We spoke for about 15 minutes in his office. He shared very jovially, this will be yours, and 

it was a very short, pleasant conversation. I have not spoken with 

him or met with him since. 

Senator INHOFE. You did not speak with him before then? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. No, I had never met him before. 

Senator INHOFE. As far as the other two, Horowitz and Loeb? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Probably at least a handful. They have been 

providing information such as CSB documents that might be helpful in preparation as a nominee and certainly have helped through 

I guess the preparation period of just discussing any other documents that I might need, making me accessible or having access to 

the CSB. That is probably about five or so times. 

Senator INHOFE. Did that include anything about their status as 

members or employees of CSB or other appropriate authority of the 

chairman and the CSB board members? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. No, we have never talked about their employment or status with regard to them personally. 

Senator INHOFE. Thank you. 

Did you have any knowledge of Board Order 2015–01 before it 

was adopted January 28? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. No. 

Senator INHOFE. Did you ever tell anyone in the White House 

that supported keeping Mr. Moure-Eraso as Chairman until his 

term ended? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I am sorry, I am not sure I understood the 

question. 

Senator INHOFE. Did you tell anyone in the White House, have 

any conversations where you were encouraging the White House to 

keep Mr. Moure-Eraso as Chairman until his term ended? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I understand. No, I do not think it is my place. 

Senator INHOFE. You did not do that? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I do not think that is my place. 

Senator INHOFE. Did you ever tell anyone in the White House 

that you supported making Mr. Ehrlich an interim Chair? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I did not. 

Senator INHOFE. In January 2015, the EPA IG notified the White 

House that CSB Chairman Moure-Eraso, General Counsel Richard 

Loeb and Managing Director David Horowitz knowingly, all three, 

violated the Federal Records Act by using personal email accounts 
25 

to conduct official government business. The House investigation 

found that General Counsel Loeb knowingly used his private email 

because other CSB employees had access to the CSB servers. 

Given the fact that General Counsel Loeb and Managing Director 

Horowitz took the same actions that led to the dismissal of Chairman Moure-Eraso, do you think they should continue to serve in 

the top leadership positions? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Those are very serious allegations. I think as 

a nominee, I, like most people in the public, have watched and read 

many of the statements both from the EPA Inspector General as 

well as several hearings that have been very publicly known and 

watched. 

Certainly as a new chairperson, I would want to immediately 

consult with my fellow board members, if confirmed, the staff, review very seriously the performance management of both of those 

employees, and the allegations. But as a nominee, it feels premature for me to have a definitive hiring or firing decision at this 

point but it certainly would be a very top priority, if confirmed as 

chairperson. 

Senator INHOFE. We were saying that given the fact that they 

took the same actions, discussed by the IG and another person, if 

that is true, do you think should continue if they were guilty of the 

same thing, the same deficiencies as the chairman at that time? 

We will put it in a hypothetical. If that is true, do you think they 

ought to be retained? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I certainly believe that if employees are engaged in illegal behavior, that is serious and could very well warrant their termination immediately. If it turned out to be as serious 

as I think we have been led to believe that it is and has been discussed, then certainly I think as a leader sometimes you have to 

take very hard action and make sure that in taking those actions, 

you do not do anything that would disadvantage the agency by not 

having knowledge transfer, transition and the like. 

Certainly, as the potential Chair of the CSB, I would have no 

trouble making a hard decision if it turned out a termination, a 

hiring or a firing needs to occur. 

Senator INHOFE. In the event this is true, you would be willing 

to terminate these people? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I think certainly as a Chair, I would also consult with my board members on that decision. Certainly they have 

been there as well but on certain types of personnel and employment matters, I certainly think as a Chair, I would be willing to 

take action up to termination if upon data and consultation, that 

turned out to be the right decision to make. 

Senator INHOFE. Thank you. 

Senator Boxer. 

Senator BOXER. I want to compliment you on the way you handled those questions because we are talking about very serious allegations and peoples’ lives. We need to know the absolute facts. I 

think you have displayed the type of leadership that I appreciate 

so much, strong, yet cautious because I think that is critical. 

Thank you for asking those questions, Senator. 

I wanted to note that today is Earth Day. This is the Environment and Public Works Committee. I wanted to note that. 
26 

To me, Earth Day puts a spotlight on how we have to protect our 

planet and our families. Your position is so critical. There are so 

many explosions out there that we really have not delved into. I 

want to ask you about those investigations. 

Congress created the Chemical Safety Board to conduct root 

cause investigations of industrial chemical accidents involving fatalities. We have not even asked you about that, so I want to ask 

you about that, serious injuries, substantial property damage, so 

that similar events might be prevented. This is critical. 

For example, when we look at what is being stored and how it 

is being stored and what happens, we can say we know why this 

explosion occurred because this particular chemical was stored in 

this particular way, without the proper safety features. This can 

save lives. 

There is an old religious saying, if you save one life, you save the 

world. You are going to be in a very enviable position, in my view, 

to be able to save lives. Not very many people are directly in that 

position. It is so important. 

I am worried about the limited resources that you have because 

you cannot possibly investigate every chemical accident that falls 

within your authority. When significant accidents happen like the 

fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas, the CSB is called upon to 

conduct investigation immediately regardless of what other investigations are still pending. 

How would you approach addressing the need to investigate the 

next significant accident while still keeping pending investigations 

on track because we have had a series of problems, interagency 

problems where one person says, don’t touch this, this is our domain, don’t look at this and that is a real problem. 

Have you thought about that, the turf battles as my Chairman 

says? I feel that you have that personality that is going to be able 

to overcome this. But could you give us a general answer since it 

is complex when there are a lot of different agencies involved in an 

investigation but yours has the distinct, definite authority that you 

need to move right away? How do you do that without displacing 

other investigations? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you for that question, Senator Boxer. I 

think I can start by answering it very generally with regard to my 

experience at PHMSA. 

We are required, and we embrace, working collaboratively and 

collegially with other Federal agencies. Certainly where possible, 

we strive to share resources. In accident investigations, where possible, we share information. We have fantastic subject matter experts in pipeline safety as well as hazardous materials transportation. We recognize that is a value to others, especially in accident 

investigations. 

I would say that likewise with the CSB, other than the obvious 

which is keeping lines of communication open within the Federal 

Government to make sure there is not duplication, there are not inefficiencies, there are not gaps and that we are approaching safety 

in a collaborative approach, I think is a good thing. 

I certainly would want to transport that type of model and 

collegiality. We work very closely with DOJ, EPA and others at 

DOT. I see no reason why the CSB could not assert more of a pres-
27 

ence in these investigations and begin to work more deeply and 

more collegially with Federal agencies because the information 

they have on accidents both past and possible, those that may 

occur in the future, is critical. 

In that shared responsibility model, I think we all have a seat 

at the table to make sure we prevent these types of serious accidents from happening. 

Senator BOXER. I think you are absolutely right. Our concern is 

how do we prevent this from happening again. To do that, we have 

to share the information and it does not happen. We have seen turf 

battles that have been just awful. We have to set aside or personalities when we are dealing with these kinds of things. 

This is my last question. The CSB has been criticized for the 

length of time it takes to complete investigations and release reports. In your opinion, from what you know so far, what is responsible for these delays and how would you address them if confirmed? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you for that question. 

Not having had a chance to really interview, meet with and get 

the opinions of my potential future board members and/or the staff 

to determine that, I am not specifically sure. 

In those cases that have been closed a little bit more quickly, because the CSB has done great work and closed some investigations 

really quickly, I would like to understand what differentiates those 

from the investigations or reports that may take a more significant 

amount of time and try to replicate what works in those more potentially complex or serious investigations. 

I suspect that it may be that some of my experience in DOT 

could be translatable in that complex investigations, particularly 

where there is a catastrophic event where evidence is burned and 

destroyed, strewn for miles, and deaths and/or serious injuries 

occur, those, in many instances, just by definition, are going to take 

some time. 

I certainly think there would be an opportunity to set regular 

check-in points, a project plan and create some strategies from 

those investigations that have not taken quite as long and try to 

apply those to the more complex investigations because the information the CSB shares and generates is critical and not just prevention but emergency response. 

I think in that regard, as Chairperson, if confirmed, we could 

predictably identify when we are going to need more resources or 

to restructure how an investigation is done in order to get more 

complex investigations completed in a timely manner. 

I certainly would be supportive of that. Most importantly, I think 

listening, learning and consulting with the staff and the current 

board members would be an easy first step in getting some ideas 

on how to implement that. 

Senator BOXER. Mr. Chairman, I am not going to have a second 

round, so I just want to close this. 

Senator INHOFE. Go ahead. 

Senator BOXER. Thank you. 

In my view, this is a really important issue, that you have not 

had the chance to really get into because obviously you are new to 
28 

the board. I think it is critical to move without delay when there 

is a problem because if it takes forever, we cannot learn. 

I am going to ask for a little more detailed answer, if you would, 

just on how you would go about setting timelines and making sure 

that agency’s morale picks up. Because frankly, the morale is very 

bad right now from being very high, because of the obvious problems that my Chairman has pointed out. 

Also, if you do not see an end to your work, it is depressing. You 

have to find closure on incidents. If you could give it a little more 

thought and perhaps get back to me on how you would set the 

deadlines, thank you very much. 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I would be happy to do so, Senator Boxer. 

Senator BOXER. Thank you very much. 

Senator INHOFE. Thank you, Senator Boxer. 

We have been joined by Senators Rounds and Gillibrand. We are 

in the process of the 5-minute opening questions. 

Senator Rounds. 

Senator ROUNDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

During recent congressional hearings, the EPA’s Inspector General testified that his office has had extreme difficulty getting the 

full cooperation of CSB senior leadership in his investigations. 

Can you describe how you view the role of the Inspector General 

and what steps you would take as Chair to ensure that the EPA’s 

Inspector General has the full cooperation of senior CSB leadership? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you for that question, Senator. 

I am not sure if many people know but my first job out of college 

was in an inspector general’s office for the U.S. Department of Energy, so I am very familiar with and supportive of the great work 

that IGs do. 

At DOT, I certainly have a very collaborative and collegial relationship with our IG’s office. We are very proactive in both referring cases to them and collaborating where we see a need to share 

information that we have uncovered, as well as being responsive to 

them when we have audits, both ordinary course audits as well as 

anything that we might want to focus on in more specificity. 

I see no reason why, if confirmed as Chairperson, I would not 

enjoy the same kind of respect, collaboration, collegiality, brainstorming and coordination with the EPA IG. 

Senator ROUNDS. As with the EPA’s IG, the CSB leadership in 

recent years has been, shall we say, extremely reluctant to cooperate with congressional oversight committees. Can you describe how 

you view the appropriate oversight role of the committee as it relates to CSB and what steps you would take as the Chair to ensure 

that the committee has the full cooperation of your senior CSB 

leadership team? 

Will you commit to meeting regularly with Congress and providing updates on progress to address some of the lingering problems there at CSB? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you, Senator. 

I think communication is critical. Certainly, I am extremely supportive of approaching any Chairperson role in the vein of shared 

responsibility and communicating with the Oversight Committee, 
29 

understanding the concerns and those of all stakeholders is a very 

essential role for any Chairperson. 

I think the second part of your question was, would I commit to 

meeting regularly. I think there is an absolute benefit to meeting 

regularly to understand what critical issues are. CSB is a small 

agency with a very, very meaningful and powerful mission. 

To the extent we are communicating well, explaining to people 

what we do and understanding how we might do that better and 

being forthcoming and sharing where there might be challenges to 

what we are doing and how we are doing it, I think is a great dialog to have in order for the team and the staff to get the resources 

they need, the board to be effective in explaining how it is carrying 

out the mission and quite frankly, for the CSB to become a little 

more better known as the valuable resource in the government that 

it is. 

Senator ROUNDS. Very good. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman, I am completed. 

Senator INHOFE. Thank you, Senator Rounds. 

Senator Gillibrand. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Ms. Sutherland, for testifying before our committee. 

I want to welcome your family. Welcome to this hearing. It is a big 

day for your mom. 

The Chemical Safety Board is tasked with the important role of 

investigating industrial chemical incidents. Their recommendations 

can help companies avoid these types of accidents in the future. 

CSB has received quite a lot of negative press lately. I hope the 

change in leadership will quickly reverse the downward trajectory 

of the CSB. This agency plays an important role in public health 

and workplace safety. The board must redirect the energy of its 

employees and refocus its mission. 

Following an investigation of a chemical facility incident, the 

board provides recommendations. These are integral to increasing 

workplace safety and preventing disasters of a similar nature from 

happening again. 

There is currently a 73 percent adoption rate for these recommendations. What are some ways, as chairman, that you could 

increase this adoption rate? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you, Senator. 

In my preparation for this particular hearing, the 73 percent 

seems to actually be going up, so first, I would commend the phenomenal staff at CSB for their previous establishment of the Office 

of Recommendations within the CSB to do that very thing, to track 

progress and make sure the recommendations were being taken seriously, reviewed and adopted. 

Going forward, having worked at the NTSB at DOT, I think 

there are certain things that the Office of Recommendations can 

do, as well as the board members. The board members also play 

an instrumental role in participating in and reviewing reports, recommendations and helping to move them forward. 

I think contacting individual industries, companies, working with 

Federal agencies to understand some of the obstacles or challenges 

and then working with them definitively to try to reach resolution 

is a great thing. 
30 

To the extent they can propose compromises or alternatives that 

would meet the same safety objectives, that would be a welcome 

approach as well. 

Certainly as a non-regulatory body focused on investigations, dissemination of information and sharing for prevention and response 

activities, I think continuing to make sure that message is carried 

further to underscore and amplify the importance of those recommendations outside of just meeting with stakeholders is a great 

thing. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. What are some of the strategies you hope 

to use to amplify education and outreach? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I certainly think there are benefits of going to 

educational institutions, conferences. Using one example with the 

CSB, I was very impressed that the Chemical Safety Board investigation findings actually led to a change in university curriculum 

for chemical engineering. 

In that regard, that is powerful messaging. When you can amplify the reactive agent elements of chemistry that may have been 

overlooked or amplify that certain parts of curriculum need substantive and deeper experience before someone enters the workplace, those are great and wonderful stories and examples to have. 

I think the more the CSB can dedicate time, I know it is only 40 people and $11 million, and the board can play a critical role 

in sharing those kinds of examples of success, I think the more 

luck we may have in seeing the recommendations as an important 

factor in improving safety overall. It is a shared responsibility so 

we have a lot of stakeholders to cover. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. On the issue of safety and security, I am 

sure during your time with the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials 

Safety Administration it was clear that security, both the physical 

and cyber infrastructures, is of most importance. 

As chairman, are there ways you could focus on increasing both 

the safety and security of the Nation’s chemical industry? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I think safety and security are often integrally 

tied. At PHMSA, we have worked very closely with TSA, Homeland 

Security and various other agencies to ensure that safety is discussed and analyzed in the same context as those who unfortunately may have nefarious intent and want to highlight certain facilities for terrorist activity or other bad behavior. 

Although I know it is not squarely in the safety mission of the 

CSB, I certainly think the board members and the Chair could play 

a very critical role in engaging a similar conversation so that as we 

are looking at safety and understanding root causes, to the extent 

those are security related, that we share that information appropriately with others throughout the government. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Thank you so much for your testimony. 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you. 

Senator INHOFE. Thank you. 

We are going to have a second round of questioning. I think 

there will be another member arriving. 

Are you aware that Senator Lautenberg, who helped draft this 

legislation authorizing the CSB, believed that while the chairman 

exercised the executive and administrative functions of the board, 

in a 1999 letter, he said, ‘‘There is no doubt in my mind, however, 
31 

that the CSB chairman must perform those functions under the direction and approval of the board as a whole’’? 

Are you aware that Randolph Moss, Acting Assistant Attorney 

General for the Department of Justice, Office of Legal Counsel, 

issued an opinion in 2000 saying ‘‘In disputes over the allocation 

of authority in specific instances, the board’s decision controls as 

long as it is not arbitrary or unreasonable’’? 

Will you commit to this committee that if you are confirmed, you 

will follow the direction of Senator Lautenberg’s 1999 letter and 

that of the Moss opinion? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you for that question, Senator. I am 

sure it is on the minds of many, given the governance challenges 

that have been identified over the last 12 to 18 months. If confirmed as Chairperson, I certainly think that governance and the 

general cooperation among the board and the effectiveness of the 

board, would have to be a top priority. 

In consultation with my board members, I certainly think that 

revisiting the board orders is probably a good thing to do given how 

much controversy and ambiguity there has been regarding the interpretations and practices of the board orders. 

I absolutely commit to being collaborative and understanding 

that what we do is as important as how we do it. Chairs do not 

have unilateral authority to make all decisions for the board. I will 

absolutely collaborate and be collegial in making decisions that are 

going to affect the future and efficiency of the agency. 

Senator INHOFE. I think that is a long way of saying yes, as I 

read the statement made by Senator Lautenberg. 

Closely related to that, the current board members just passed 

a new order that temporarily gives back to the board some of its 

authority. It does not rescind Board Order 2015–1 that I referred 

to in my opening statement. It is only effective to June 24 or until 

the new Chair is confirmed. 

What is your view of that order or are you familiar with that, 

the replacement order? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I am only generally familiar with the replacement order and certainly defer to the three current board members 

as to how they operate before other members and a chairperson are 

confirmed. 

As I mentioned, given the fact that governance has been a topic 

for many years at the CSB, it would seem to me that given the 

challenges, it is critical for any incoming chairperson to meet with 

the members and potentially, whether it is repeal, modify, review, 

going forward, I think those board orders certainly deserve some 

clarity. 

If confirmed, I certainly would want to review all of the actions 

being taken in the interim and understand more about how the 

board would want to move forward. 

Senator INHOFE. From what you know now, you are somewhat 

familiar with that, do you have an opinion as to whether it goes 

too far, does it go far enough or anything concerning that? I think 

it is called 2015–26. Do you have an opinion on that? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. That, I do not have. 

Senator INHOFE. Board Members Griffon and Engler have testified they would like to see Board Order 2015 rescinded to restore 
32 

public confidence in the CSB. You have already answered as to 

whether or not you agree with that, but I think something has to 

be done to restore confidence. This has been a problem. This was 

pointed out by Senator Rounds and myself. Our investigation resulted kind of resulted in the changes that have taken place that 

make this committee hearing necessary. 

Do you have anything to add as to your plan for dealing with this 

Board Order or do you see something else you could do in this area 

as a new chairman, if you are confirmed, to restore confidence? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Trying to be short in the answer, boards and 

commissions operate in a very complex, legal and regulatory space. 

Orders over orders over orders can create a lot of confusion and 

ambiguity. 

If confirmed as chairperson, I think the first thing to do would 

be for the board, as a whole, to take a look at all of those Board 

Orders and determine collectively the best way to move forward. 

Certainly, as a chairperson and member, the Chair has a one in 

five conversation and vote on these very critical topics. If there is 

not agreement or understanding going forward, then I would fear 

that the same level of discord and mistrust would continue on the 

board. As a nominee, it feels premature for me to definitively know 

which specific Board Order may be the right or wrong one, given 

that they have caused a little bit of tension for many years. 

Senator INHOFE. I think that is fair. 

Senator Rounds, do you have further questions? 

Senator ROUNDS. Mr. Chairman, if I could, I would like to follow 

a little bit on the same line that you were following. 

I will go into a little bit of detail that we are kind of trying to 

work our way through. On January 28, 2015, CSB held a hearing 

to consider findings related to a CSB investigation. No notice was 

given to Board Member Mark Griffon or the public that a proposed 

Board Order was going to be considered and voted upon. No copy 

of the proposed Board Order was given to Board Member Griffon 

or the public to review prior to the hearing. 

Despite the lack of notice, Board Member Manuel Ehrlich offered 

Board Order 2015–01, the one the Chairman referred to, which rescinded 18 prior Board Orders and consolidated authority in the 

CSB Chairman. The Board Order was approved with Mr. Ehrlich 

and Chairman Moure-Eraso voting in favor of it and Board Member Griffon opposed to it. 

You can see the focus we have here. We are curious about your 

general thoughts on the process that was used to pass this Board 

Order. Maybe you were not aware of what happened. We can kind 

of suspect what your response will be but for the record, what was 

your general thought on the process used to pass this particular 

Board Order? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. You are correct. I was not familiar with the 

whys or the rationale for how that meeting came to be, the outcome 

or any of the details or specificity. I would say that having been 

on other boards, certainly not at this level, but non-profits and 

501(c)(4)’s, having been a chairperson, having been president of a 

small organization, it is not necessarily what you do when you are 

leading people, it is how you do it and how you communicate it. 

Certainly as a chairperson, my goal would be to communicate, be 

transparent, and make sure all voices are heard. I think much of 
33 

the challenge I have seen as just a citizen with the CBS has been 

a feeling, however legitimate, that there is not transparency, there 

is a lack of communication, that diversity of thought, opinion and 

perspective is not welcome. 

I do not think that you get the best outcomes or product when 

you are not transparent and communicate. As chairperson, I would 

lead with that approach. 

Senator ROUNDS. I think the example of how this particular piece 

of the process worked is a good example of probably how it should 

not have worked. Have you had a chance to discuss any of this 

process with the current members of the board at all? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. I have not. 

Senator ROUNDS. You have not. OK. Board Members Griffon and 

Engler have testified they would like to see this Board Order rescinded to restore public confidence in the CSB. 

Would you agree to sit down with them and consider their recommendation and basically talk about how you would plan to deal 

with, as you have heard, regaining that sense of confidence that 

there will be a process within the operation of the entire board that 

is a lot more transparent and open than apparently what has been 

going on in the past? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. That seems to be necessary to move this board 

forward in an efficient and effective manner so they can return to 

the focus of the CSB with less time and attention on governance 

and more time and attention on accidents and investigations. 

Senator ROUNDS. Very good. Thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator INHOFE. Thank you, Senator Rounds. 

When you first introduced your family, your mother had not arrived. Has she arrived? 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. She has. 

Senator INHOFE. I welcome you, Mom. You should be very proud 

to be a part of this. 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. That is Audrey Allen. 

Senator INHOFE. Very good. Thank you very much. 

We do not have more questions. We appreciate very much your 

presence here and your answers to our questions. 

Ms. SUTHERLAND. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator INHOFE. We are adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 10:22 a.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

[An additional statement submitted for the record follows:] 

STATEMENT OF HON. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, U.S. SENATOR

FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND

I would like to welcome our nominee here before this committee. Vanessa Sutherland was born at Sibley Memorial Hospital here in Washington, DC and after several days came home to Ft. Washington, MD where she lived in Tantallon until college. She attended a Queen Anne School, in Upper Marlboro from seventh grade 

through high school. She now lives in Ft. Washington, as do her parents and many 

of her siblings. 

I want to praise Ms. Sutherland for her dedication to public service and to thank 

her, and congratulate her, for picking the best State in the country in which to live 

much of her life. 

Æ