# r - BEFOR E TH E DEPARTMENT O F TRANSPORTATION FEDERAL AVIATIONADMINISTRATION OFFIC E O F HEARING S :^t:FARTMEN TO F n ANSPORTATIO N ;:;/;L TOPERATION S 

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### Federa l Building Anne xA 22 2 Wes t Eight hAvenu e Conferenc e RoomA Anchorage , Alask a Tuesday , Octobe r 19 , 201 0 9:0 0 o'cloc k a.m . BEFORE ; RICHARD GOODWI N Administrativ e LawJudg e



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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.co m^ APPEARANCE S FO RTH E COMPLAINANT : GLENNH . BROWN , ESQ . Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n Offic e o f Regional Counse l 22 2 Wes t 7t hAvenue , No . 1 4 Anchorage , Alask a 9951 3 (907 ) 274-107 4 FO RTH E RESPONDENT : BARTO NM . TIERNAN , ESQ . P.O . Bo x9314 4 Anchorage , Alask a 9950 9 (907 ) 277-765 7 

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OPENIN GSTATEMEN T B YTH E COMPLAINANT , PAG E 4 B YTH E RESPONDENT , PAG E 6 WITNES S DIREC T CROS S REDIREC T RECROS S STEPHE NSTEWAR T 1 1 5 0 Voi r Dir e o npag e 4 3 BARTO NTIERNAN9 5 10 6 Voi r Dir e o npag e 9 7 8 1 9 1 11 2 8 6

9 2

EXHIBI T DESCRIPTIO N REC D COMPLAINANT : 

# n C I Operatin g certificat e 1 9

C 2 Operation s Specificatio nAOO l 2 7 C 3 Operation s Specificatio nAO0 6 2 7 C 4 Operation s Specificatio nAO0 7 2 7 C 5 Operation s Specificatio nAO0 8 2 7 C 6 Operation s Specificatio nA03 9 2 7 C 7 . Email s 3 4 C 8 Reques t tha t Wayn e Koo nb e adde dt o 3 6 A03 9 C 9 Operation s Specificatio nissue di n3 6 respons e t o C 8 CI O Lette r o f investigatio n3 6 Cl l Email s 3 8 C1 2 Appendi xB fo r Orde r 2153 D 4 5 C1 3 Respons e t o Notic e o f Propose d10 8 Civi l Penalt y RESPONDENT :


# r ^ R l Lette r date dFebruar y9th , 200 9 6 4

R 2 Lette r o f authorizatio n6 4 R 4 Documen t o f pilo t hour s 9 9 R 8 Ta xretur n10 1

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 wit hthat . You r Honor , I' mgoin g t o b e ver y

brief . Basicall yfro mth e pleadings , ther e doe s no t appea r t o b e larg e factua l issues . Th e questio ni s whethe r Bus hAi r Carg o complie dwit hit s Op s Spe c an dbase do nth e pleading s tha t hav e bee nrecentl yfiled , ther e appear s t o b e a contentio nfro mBus hAi r Carg o tha t well , ou r th e Government' s contentio ni s tha t ther e wa s a nOp s Spe c A0 3 9 tha t specifie dwh o woul dserv e a s th e secon d i ncomman dan dBus hAi r Carg o use dsomeon e els e fo r 1 9 flights . That' s al l admitted .

What' s bee nraise di s a questio n o f whethe r a separat e lis t pursuan t t o AO0 8 nullifie dth e nee dfo r th e requirement s i n A0 3 9 . That' s th e issue . Tha t par t o f i t i s
w e believ e a questio no f interpretation , bu t there' s als o th e questio no f wher e tha t lis t
cam e fro m

becaus e w e didn' t se e i t unti l ver y recently . S o thos e wha t w e se e ar e th e issue s here , JUDG

EGOODWIN : Mr
. Tiernan
.

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . TIERNAN ; Well , sinc e Mr ,

Brow nmad e a nopening , mayb e I'l l mak e on e too . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u ca nreserv e i f yo u wan t to . That' s - - yo u ca nmak e i t no wo r reserve . You r call .

MR . TIERNAN : Le t m e jus t —le t
m e giv e a nintro , jus t giv e background . A s yo u ma yhav e recognized , I' mth e genera l counsel , president , PIC , carg o handler , loader , everythin g fo r thi s company , s o I wea r a coupl e differen t hats . It' s a singl e PI C operation . It' s - - w e operat e tw o DC3 s an d
on e o f the m

o nskis , th e onl yDC 3 o nski s i n th e U.S . W e fl yapproximatel yabou t 12 0 hour s a year . W e operat e primaril yabou t thre e month s ou t o f th e winte r an dabou t fou r month s ou t o f th e summe r

Thi s that' s jus t backgroun d information . Thi s company' s bee ni noperatio n sinc e approximatel yMarc ho f 2008 . W e go t ou r certificat e i nDecembe r 2007 . S o it' s a youn g

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 company . I t hasn' t turne da profi t ye t an d

you'l l se e on e o f ou r exhibits , it'l l sho w eve na los s fo r 2009 .

That' s jus t backgroun dinformatio n sinc e i f w e d o star t talkin g abou t a violatio n an da fin e tha t w e ca n- - hopefull yw e ca n reduc e i t Thi s particula r inciden t occurre d i n- - oh , actuall ybackin g u p a littl e bit . Th e origina l certificat e wa s certifie da s m e PI C an dthe nDonal dBallar dfo r a nSIC , a copilot . Th e singl e PI C 13 5 allow s fo r on e PI C an dthat' s it . Tha t on e PI C basicall yha s al l operationa l contro l responsibilit yfo r th e operation , especiall yi nthi s particula r

on e Th e SI C wa s Donal dBallar di n Februar y2009 , Mr . Ballar dwa s no t goin g t o b e availabl e fo r revenu e flight s i nMarch . W e decide dt o trai nanothe r SI C s o we' dhav e two . I nDecembe r - - o r o nFebruar y12th , th e - - well , I calle du p Mr . Stewart , le t hi mkno w

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 tha t we'r e goin g t o - - pe r ou r 13 5 tha t w e

woul db e havin g a trainin g progra m an d trainin g u p a nSIC . I aske di f he' db e availabl e befor e Marc hs o w e ca nge t a chec k rid e ou t o f th e wa yan dh e sai dh e wouldn' t b e available . I said , well , w e nee da chec k rid e

- - w e nee da nSI C becaus e Mr . Ballard' s no t goin g t o b e availabl e an dh e said , well , I' m no t goin g t o b e available .

I said , well , I nee dsomebody . Ho wabou t i f w e authoriz e Mr . Ala nLarso nwh o wa s a - - wh o wa s qualifie dt o giv e a chec k ride , operate s Tran s Norther nDC 3 operation , an dw e receive dafte r a reques t authorizatio n t o allo wMr . Larso nt o giv e a chec k ride .

Tha t chec k rid e wa s complete dan d th e da yafte r I believ e i t wa s w e starte d
revenu e flight s wit hMr . Koo nwh o i s th e perso ntha t issue dher e th e secon dSI C an dMr . Ballar do f cours e wa s no t available . S o h e wa s adde dt o ou r checklis t - - ou r pilot s lis t pe r ou r 135 . Ou r 13 5 certificat e state s tha t

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 w e ar e specificall ydirecte dt o kee p a lis t o f

pilot s an dtha t i s i nAO0 8 an dyou'l l se e I believ e that' s Exhibi t 7 .

I nanyevent , w e ad dhi mt o ou r lis t an dw e continu e - - w e starte dt o commenc e ou r flights . I nJul y- - s o fou r month s late r i nJuly , Mr . Stewar t --w e wer e talkin g o nth e phone . I can' t remembe r th e specifics , bu t i t
wa s basicall yI believ e h e sai dword s t o th e effec t o f I hop e yo u adde dMr . Koo nt o you r Op s Spec s an dI sai dn o an dI too k tha t a s a sig nt o I' dbetter .

S o I requeste dh e b e adde dt o th e Op s Spec s an dthe ni nDecember , w e go t thi s complaint . An da s Mr . Brow nstated , i t al l
come s dow nt o th e tw o section s i nth e Op s Spec s Yo u hav e A0 3 9(c ) ( 2 ) an d AO08(2 ) (d ) (1 ) (b ) an dit' s - - essentiall yi t
come s dow nt o th e interpretatio no f thos e tw o clause s i nou r - - o r thos e tw o section s i nou r Op s Specs . Wer e w e require dt o - - doe s th e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 languag e requir e yo u jus t t o kee p a pilot s

lis t o r doe s i t requir e yo u t o kee p a pilot s lis t an dad dth e perso nt o you r Op s Spec s unde r 3 9 o r i s i t jus t 39 . It' s vagu e - - i n ou r opinion , it' s vague . I nou r opinion , w e hav e th e optio no f doin g anyon e o f th e tw o unde r AO0 8 an dessentiall ythat' s it . It' s jus t th e interpretatio no f thos e tw o section s an dth e backgroun do f th e - - i f ther e i s goin g t o b e a violatio ntha t th e penalt yi s no t appropriate .

JUDG E GOODWIN : On e thin g I wan t yo u t o consider , Mr . Tiernan , I - - a s Mr . Brow nknows , I frequentl ysea l th e recor dan d I notic e you'v e go t a corporat e incom e ta x retur ni nhere . Well , it'l l certainl yb e availabl e withi nth e appellat e sectio ni f yo u fee l that' s somethin g tha t need s - - it' s proprietar yan dneed s t o b e sealed , jus t le t
m e kno wbefor e th e hearing' s over .

MR
. TIERNAN ; Yes , You r Hono r An dw ewil lb erequestin g tha t

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Brown . MR . TIERNAN : Than k you . You r Honor . W e cal l Inspecto r Stewart .

JUDG E GOODWIN : B yth e way , whil e he' s comin g u p there , they'v e bee nfligh t testin g th e ne wBoein g 747-80 0 i nFresno .

MR . BROWN : Wow . JUDG E GOODWIN : They'v e bee n flyin g i t fro m

Everet t - - somethin g abou t th e airpor t i nFresn o i s jus t - - yo u know , th e soun dthe yusuall ymak e whe nthe ytak e off . I looke d- - I couldn' t believ e ho wquie t thi s thin g i s whe nth e engine s ar e i nuse . So , sir , stan dan drais e you r righ t hand .

(Oat hadministered ) MR . STEWART : I do . STEPHE NSTEWAR T calle da s a witnes s o nbehal f o f th e complainant , testifie da s follow s on :

DIREC T EXAMINATIO N JUDG E GOODWIN : Pleas e b e seated . Stat e you r ful l nam e fo r th e recor dan dspel l

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 you r firs t an dlas t name .

A Stephe nJ . Stewart , S-T-E-P-H-E- N S-T-E-W-A-R-T .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry . Th e las t nam e again . A S-T-E-W-A-R-T , JUDG E GOODWIN : Counsel . B YMR . BROWN : Q A Q A Mr . Stewart , ar e yo u employed ? Ye s B ywhom ? T h e Federa l Aviatio n Administration , Q I nwha t capacity ? AA s a nAviatio nSafet yInspector . Q An dwher e ar e yo u assigned ? T o th e Anchorag e Fligh t Servic e Distric t Office . Q Fligh t Standard s Distric t Office ? Yo u sai dServic e

Office . Q Okay . Ho wlon g hav e yo u bee nwit h

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 th e FAA ?

ANin e years . Q An dver ybriefly , wha t d o you r dutie s entail ? ACertificatio nan dongoin g certificatio no f ne wo r existin g operators , workin g i ntande mwit hoperator s i nkeepin g thei r variou s manual s curren t an di n compliance , genera l operation s manuals , trainin g programs . W e als o - - o r I als o d o investigation s o f incidents , accidents , occurrences , enforcements , variou s inspections , airme ncertifications . Quit e a numbe r o f differen t tasks . Q I don' t kno wi f I - - yo u sai dit , bu t ar e yo u a nairworthines s ops . 

### avionics . A Q . . . . 

### Operations . Operations . Wha t i f an yFA A certificate s d o yo u hold ? AI hol da nairlin e transpor t certificate , multi-engin e land , an dcommercia l

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 privileges , single-engin e lan dan d sea , i n

additio nt o whic hI' mtype di n DC 3 an d Supe r DC 3 Q Whe ndi d yo u ge t thos e DC3/DC3 S typ e ratings ? ADC 3 wa s Februar yo f 2 00 7 an d th e Supe r 3 i n Februar yo f 2009 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : What' s a Supe r 3 ? AI t i s a large r variatio no f th e - - it' s a large r DC 3 tha t Dougla s develope dfo r th e commercia l passenge r carryin g operations . It' s a longe r airplane , differen t wing , differen t engines , faste r airplane .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t th e las t on e tha t wa s buil t wa s 5 0 year s ag o o r more ? AI' mno t sure , bu t approximately . yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Alon g tim e ag o

Ye s MR . TIERNAN ; JUDG E GOODWIN ; 50s

.



### Abou t 1950 s wa s th elas t

one ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q I assum e yo u go t thes e - - th e typ e

rating s the nreall yt o assis t yo u i nyou r dutie s a s a ninspector ? AYes , becaus e I hav e oversigh t o f al l th e DC 3 an dSupe r 3 operator s i nthi s region . Q Okay . An dho wman yar e there ? ATwo . Q Yo u hear dMr . Tiernan' s openin g statement . Tran s Northern , i s tha t th e othe r operation? ACorrect . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ther e ar e tw o aircraf t o r tw o peopl e wh o operat e th e DC3s ? ATher e ar e tw o operator s tha t hav e Dougla s DC3s . Mr . Tierna nha s DC3s .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . AAn dNorther nAi r Carg o ha s onl y Supe r DC3 s JUDG EGOODWIN : Okay
.

MR
. TIERNAN : Tran s Northern , JUDG EGOODWIN : I' msorry ?

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . BROWN : Tran s Northern , MR . TIERNAN : Tran s Northern , JUDG E GOODWIN : Tran s Northern , Wha t di dI say ?

MR . TIERNAN : Yo u sai dNAC . Yo u sai dNAC . UNIDENTIFIE D SPEAKER : I use dt o wor k a t NAC .

MR . TIERNAN : Yeah , that' s MR . BROWN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : S o whos e aircraf t
ar e i npiece s dow na t th e airport ? AWhic hairport ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Th e Anchorag e — Steven' s (ph) . I jus t sa won e o f th e engine s
wer e of f and . AOh , le t m e correc t myself . Ther e ar e thre e operator s i nth e region .

MR . TIERNAN : Yeah . Deser t Air . AThere' s Deser t Air , Tran s Northern , an dBus hAi r Cargo .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; S o I assum e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Desert' s ar e i npart s dow na t th e Steven's . MR . TIERNAN : I thin k that' s th e Reev e (ph ) DC 3 tha t ha dth e win g ti p off .

Right . JUDG E GOODWIN ; I t als o ha dth e lef t engin e of f

MR . TIERNAN : Oh , yeah . Tha t - - that' s a - - Deser t Ai r own s tha t one .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . Okay . MR . TIERNAN : W e think . H e take s part s of f i t anyway .

MR . BROWN : Al l right . AH e doe s ow nit . MR . TIERNAN : Okay . Q Mr . Stewart , let' s ge t bac k here . Th e - - prio r t o comin g t o th e FAA , wil l yo u briefl ydescrib e you r - - summariz e you r aviatio nexperience/employment . A2 2 year s i nth e industr yflyin g primaril ya s a pilo t i ncomman dfo r a variet y o f operators , smal l t o large , single-engin e C

- - commuter , o ndemand .

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Yo u mentione dNorther nAi r Cargo ,

wha t di dyo u fl yfo r them ? ADC6 . Q Okay . S o we'v e covere dit , bu t I believ e yo u indicate dyou'r e th e principa l operatin g inspecto r fo r Bus hAi r Cargo ; i s tha t correct ? ATha t i s correct . Q Okay . An dho wlon g hav e yo u bee n th e PO I fo r Bus hAi r Cargo ? ASinc e earl y2008 . Q Al l right . Wa s tha t th e tim e o f it s initia l certification ?

N o The ywer e initiall y certificate di nDecembe r o f 2007 . Q Al l right . S o the nyo u inherite d th e - - i f yo u will , th e responsibilit yo f oversigh t fo r thi s carrie r afte r someon e els e ha ddon e th e certification . ACorrect . MR . BROWN : Al l right . Let' s star t wit ha fe wthings . Thi s wil l b e CI .

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q I f yo u would , wha t i s CI ?

AC I i s a cop yo f a noperatin g certificat e issue dt o Bus hAi r Cargo , Inc. , i n Decembe r 14 , 2 007 . Q Al l right . An dbasicall ythi s state s tha t the yhav e a operatin g certificat e wit hcertai nlimitations , restrictions , e t cetera , correct ? ACorrect . Q Al l right . MR . BROWN ; No wI'l l mov e fo r admissio no f C l an dyo u ma ywonde r wh ywe'r e bothering , bu t thi s wa s no t a matte r addresse d i nth e answer , s o here' s th e certificate .

MR . TIERNAN : N o objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : C l fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Cl . (Complainant' s Exhibi t C l admitted )

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t I - - Mr . Tiernan , wha t I normall yd o wher e th e exhibi t numbe r i s i s wher e I writ e I D whe nit' s

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 offered . I lin e throug htha t an dpu t th e dat e

i ni npencil . That' s th e lin e thoug htha t I'v e admitte dit .

MR . TIERNAN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : S o you'r e fre e t o chec k thi s out . I don' t kno wi f Mr . Brown' s tol dyou . Everythin g w e d o her e goe s o nth e Internet . MR . TIERNAN : Sur e

JUDG E GOODWIN : That' s wh yI mad e th e commen t abou t th e - - sealin g th e record .

MR . TIERNAN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Th e transcrip t goe s o nth e recor d- - goe s o nth e Interne t an d al l th e exhibit s g o o nth e Internet . I didn' t
mea nt o thro wyo u off , Mr . Brown .

MR . BROWN : No , that' s —I' mjus t thinkin g ho wt o d o thi s mos t efficiently . You r Hono r JUDG E GOODWIN : Oh , don' t worr y abou t it . We'v e go t tw o days . Yo u don' t hav e t o b e efficient .

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . TIERNAN : Hopefull yno t tw o

day s . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Yo u wante dthi s


### o r MR . BROWN : I' musin g C fo r complainant . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Bu t you'r e usin g letter s o r numbers ?

MR . BROWN : It' s Cl , C2 , C3 . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Al l right . MR . BROWN : An dtha t wa s C l wa s th e on e I jus t gav e you . Okay . Thes e woul d b e i norder .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An dyo u mar k i n th e transcrip t whe nthey'r e admitte dtoo . right ? MR . BROWN ; And , Mr . Tiernan , here' s wha t I'v e marke d- - ha dmarke da s C2 , C3 , C4 , C5 , an dC6 . An di t shoul db e i n ascendin g orde r startin g wit hAl . C 2 throug h C 6 i nthi s order .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Than k you .

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# r ^

r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q I f yo u would , please , stat e fo r

th e recor dwha t thos e are , identif ythe mver y briefly . A C 2 i s Operation s Specificatio n AOO l whic hi s th e Operationa l Specificatio n equivalen t o f C l whic hi s th e operatin g certificat e Q An dbasicall ythes e ar e Op s Spec s tha t hav e bee nissue dt o Bus hAi r Cargo ?

C2 ? ACorrec t Q An dAOO l i s simpl yth e basi c one ,

Yes . C l i s statin g tha t thes e operation s specification s whic hwoul d- - mean s al l thos e tha t wer e issue dt o i t ar e Bus hAi r Carg o

purpose ? Al l right . An dC3 , what' s it s

AC 3 i s Op s Spe c AO06 , managemen t personnel . I t list s thos e individual s wh o hav e managemen t position s wit hBus hAi r Carg o an di nthi s instanc e i t i s th e - - Barto n

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# n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Tierna ni s th e Genera l Manage r an d a t th e tim e

thi s wa s issued . War dSimone s (ph ) wa s th e Directo r o f Maintenance . Q Okay . Basicall ys o thi s indicate s wh o th e ke ypersonne l are ? ACorrect . Q Al l right . An d movin g no wt o C4 , wha t i s it ? AAO07 , othe r designate dpersons . Agai ni t list s th e ke ymanagemen t personne l i n additio nt o tha t individua l withi nth e compan y tha t wil l receiv e safet yinformationa l alert s an den d post s (ph) . Q Okay . No wlet' s ge t t o C5 , wha t i s - - AO08 . Wha t i s thi s one ? A Q A Q A contro l Yo u mean t AO0 8 no t 5 , correct?



### It' s C5
. Oh , C - - I' msorry . Yes
. Yeah
. AO08 i s operationa l Okay
. What

i s it s purpose ?

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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# r ^

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AT o stat e th e manne r i n whic hth e

personne l i n an yparticula r operatio nhav e contro l o f al l aspect s o f th e company . Q Okay . I n th e issuanc e - - i n issu e ar e decidin g whic hOp s Spec s t o - - o r operation s specificatio nissue , d o yo u hav e som e latitude ? A Restat e th e question , pleas e Q I n determinin g whic hOp s Spec s t o issue , d o yo u hav e som e latitude ? AYes . Yes . An d highl ydependen t
o nth e kind s o f operation s the yconduct . Q S o that' s somethin g fo r th e judgemen t o f th e POI ? AI n concer t wit hth e operator' s desires . It' s a join t effort . Q Al l right . AO08 , i s thi s intende d fo r smal l companies , larg e companies , both ? AAl l companie s regardles s o f size . Q S o thi s - - eve nth e larg e par t 12 1 carrie r a s wel l a s th e smal l on e - - singl e pilo t operato r woul dge t th e sam e Op s Spec ?

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# r ^

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 ACorrect .

Q An d lastl yI showe dyo u C 6 whic h A039 , single-pilo t comman doperator . Wha t i s th e purpos e o f C6 ? AT o specif yth e onl yindividua l tha t ca n b e use da s pilo t i n comman dunde r tha t certificat e an d th e onl yperson s tha t ca n b e use da s secon di n comman dpilots . Q Al l righ t Now , jus t fo r th e record , prio r t o Jul y2009 , basicall yth e tim e perio da t issu e i n th e complain t i n thi s matte r wa s wha t yo u se e here , C6 , th e the n curren t operation s specificatio nissue dt o Bus hAi r Cargo . A Ye s Q Now , I notic e al l o f th e C 2 throug hC 6 appea r t o hav e a handwritte n statemen t sor t o f a t th e botto man d a dat e o f Octobe r 12t ho f 2010 . D o yo u se e that ? AI do . Q Okay . Wha t i s that ? ATha t i s m ywritin g statin g tha t

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# n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 wher e copie s o f thes e particula r item s cam e

from . Q S o woul dyo u explai nt o th e Cour t wher e the ycam e from ? Wha t d o yo u mean ? AWell , Cl , fo r example , cam e fro m th e operator' s rea d(ph ) fil e whic hi s a binde r tha t w e kee p i nth e PIST O (ph ) wit ha variet yo f informatio nincludin g Op s Specs , correspondence , e t cetera . It' s sittin g o n th e tabl e t o you r right . Q S o that' s th e official record , i f yo u would . That' s ho wit' s filed . ACorrect . Q An dC 2 throug hC6 , wher e di dyo u actuall yfin dthes e whe nyo u wen t t o mak e th e copies ? I printe dthe mdirectl yfro ma n applicatio ncalle dWe bOp s whic hi s wher e al l operator s - - operation s specificatio nresid e electronically . Q Than k you . MR . BROWN : You r Honor , a t thi s

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# r ^

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 tim e mov e fo r admissio no f C 2 throug hC6 . MR . TIERNAN : N o objection . Jus t t o clarif ythough , thes e wer e th e existin g Op s Spec s a t th e tim e o f th e violatio nwhic har e th e appropriat e ones , bu t a coupl e o f the m hav e change dsince . Bu t it' s irrelevan t t o thi s case , s o n o objection .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u agre e wit h that ? I mea nal l he' s sayin g i s tha t som e thing s hav e change dsinc e then . Th e Court' s onl yconcerne dtha t thes e ar e th e one s applicabl e a t th e tim e o f th e violation .

MR . BROWN : Understand . JUDG E GOODWIN : Whic hgenerall y he ' s MR . BROWN : I believ e - - yeah . Correct . An d s o wit hthat , w e agree .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Exhibit s C 2 throug hC 6 inclusiv e ar e admitte da s respectiv e exhibi t numbers .

(Complainant' s Exhibit s C 2 throug hC 6 admitted )

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# r ^

n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Mr . Stewar t - - kin do f spee dthi s

u p a littl e bit . A t som e poin t i n time , yo u becam e concerne dtha t ther e migh t hav e bee na violatio no f A039 ; i s tha t correct ? ACorrect . Q Al l right . I f yo u would , ho wdi d tha t com e abou t an d wha t d o yo u recal l abou t th e conversations ? AI ha d a - - I believ e I ha d a n emai l conversatio nwit hMr . Tierna ni n Jul yo f 200 9 i n whic hI inquire da s t o whethe r o r no t

- - severalfold . Firs t I believ e I recal l askin g i f th e secon di n comman dtha t ha d bee n checke dou t i n Februar yha d actuall ybee n utilize di n revenu e servic e an d additionall y i f so , ha d h e bee nadde dt o Operation s Specificatio nA039 . Q An d yo u believ e thi s wa s don e b y email ? I do .

MR . BROWN : Han g o n fo r jus t a minute .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q I' mhandin g yo u wha t I'v e marke d

a s Exhibi t C7 . D o yo u recogniz e C7 ? AI do . Thi s i s a strin g o f email s betwee nmysel f an dMr . Tierna ntha t begi no n th e las t page , Marc h13t ho f 2009 , throug h Jul y15t ho f 2009 . Q Firs t o f all , i s contac t b yemai l somethin g yo u commonl yd o now ? AYes . Q I mea nwit hyou r operators . ACorrect . Q S o le t m e - - thi s look s lik e yo u ha da conversatio ni nMarc han dther e wa s - - an ds o th e nex t emai l I se e her e i nthi s chai n comin g fro mth e bac k t o th e fron t i s fro m Mr . Tierna nt o you . I t appear s t o b e o nJul y 2nd ; i s tha t correct ? An dI' mlookin g o nth e secon dpag e o f thi s exhibit .

JUDG E GOODWIN : You'r e talkin g abou t 2 o f 6 ?

MR . BROWN : 2 o f 6 , correct . Th e secon dpag e o f th e exhibi t dow na t th e ver y

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 bottom , JUDG E GOODWIN ; Wha t I do , M r

Tiernan , i s tha t i nmultipl e pages , I'l l mar k the m1 o f 2 , 1 o f - - an ds o fort ht o hel p th e recor ds o th e cour t reporte r doesn' t ge t ma d
a t me . ARephras e you r question , yeah . Q Al l right . Wha t I wa s tryin g t o d o wa s direc t you r attention . I t appear s t o
m e tha t o nPag e 2 o f 6 dow na t th e botto m i s essentiall yth e nex t messag e i nthi s strin g an dit' s fro mMr . Tiernan ; i s tha t correct ? AYes , i f you'r e talkin g abou t m y exper t i s jus t - - i s tha t wher e you'r e starting ? Q Yes . AYes . Q Okay . S o you r respons e t o tha t messag e i s abov e tha t o nPag e 2 o f 6 , correct ? 

### ACorrect
.

A 

### O nTuesday , Jul y14th , Yes
.

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Al l right . An d s o hi s respons e

the nt o yo u begin s o n th e firs t pag e a t th e botto m an d the ngoe s ove r t o th e secon dpage ; i s tha t correct ? AYes . Q Al l right . An d the nyou r respons e o nJul y15t ha t 8:0 5 i s ther e o n Pag e 1 o f 1 , th e middle . A Ye s Q An d the nhi s respons e bac k t o yo u i s th e ver yto p on e a t 11:4 0 a.m . o n Jul y 15th , 2009 . ACorrect . Q Al l right . MR . BROWN : You r Honor , mov e fo r admissio no f C7 .

MR . TIERNAN : I woul d- - I don' t min d1 o f 6 an d 2 o f 6 , bu t I don' t se e ho w th e res t o f i t i s relevan t a t all . Unles s th e counse l ca n tel l m e wh yit' s relevan t an d they'r e separat e communications , differen t subjects , totall yunrelated . S o I don' t

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 objec t t o th e firs t tw o pages , bu t afte r

tha t JUDG E GOODWIN : What' s you r position , Mr . Brown ?

MR . BROWN : Well , You r Honor , basicall ywha t w e di dw e ha da nemai l strin g an ds o a t th e ris k o f bein g accuse do f cuttin g or , yo u know , bein g selective , w e include dth e entir e string . Wha t yo u ca nse e her e i s th e communicatio n- - actuall yth e firs t thre e page s reall yappea r t o b e th e mos t relevant . Certainl yth e matte r a t han dthoug hi s i nth e firs t tw o page s a s h e acknowledged .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Wha t I' m goin g t o do , Mr . Tiernan , I' mgoin g t o admi t it , bu t I' monl yconcerne dabou t th e on e violatio nan di f there' s discussio nabou t somethin g else , th e Court' s goin g t o ignor e i t MR . TIERNAN : I jus t don' t wan t i t t o g o o nth e Interne t becaus e I hav e som e

JUDG E GOODWIN : Pardo nme ?

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### 3 3



# r ^ 1



### 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . TIERNAN : I don' t wan t i t t o

g o o nthe Interne t becaus e I se e

a way , JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , the nthere' s

MR . TIERNAN : Okay . The nwe'l l — okay . The nwe'l l

JUDG E GOODWIN ; t o dea l wit h that . Wh

ydon' t w e deal t wit htha t MR . TIERNAN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : and- - let' s tal k abou t tha t a t the end . Th e - - accepting th e Agency' s proffe r o nthis , i t certainl y- - the Court' s concerne dabou t letting evidenc e i npiecemea l andi f there' s a trai no f thought , i t seem s t o m e tha t th e trai no f though t shoul db e admitted . Superfluou s thing s --i nothe r words , thing s tha t ar e no t directl yrelate dt o the allege dviolation , the Court' s going t o ignore , andi f ther e ar e concern s abou t thi s getting o nth e Internet , the nwe'l l jus t - - we'l l sea l thi s particula r exhibi t o r the whol e - - I'v e seale dexhibits .

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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# r ^

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I'v e seale dentir e cases . S o MR . TIERNAN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : .we'l l dea l wit htha t a t th e end .

MR . TIERNAN : N o objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : S o Complainant' s 7 fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Complainant' s 7 .

(Complainant' s Exhibi t C 7 admitted ) Q Mr . Stewart , di d yo u subsequentl y ge t a reques t fro mBus hAi r Cargo , Mr . Tiernan , t o amen dOp s Specificatio nA03 9 t o ad da differen t secon di n command ? AI did . Q Sho wyo u wha t I'v e marke da s Exhibi t C8 . Mr . Stewart , d o yo u recogniz e C8 ? AI do . Q An d wha t i s it ? AI t i s a lette r reques t fro mBus h Ai r Carg o requestin g tha t Wayn e Koo nb e adde d t o Op s Spe c A03 9 a s a secon di n comman dpilot . Q 

### Okay
. I s thi s th elette r yo ujus t

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 - - thi s i s th e reques t tha t yo u jus t testifie d

to ?

ne wA039 ?

Q Correct . An ddi dyo u subsequentl yissu e a

I did , I' mhandin g yo u wha t I'v e marke d
a s C9 . I s C 9 th e Op s Spe c yo u issue di n respons e t o C8 ? AYes , i t is . Q And , Mr . Stewart , I assiim e it' s fai r t o sa ytha t a t som e poin t yo u initiate d
a - - what' s know na s a nEIR , Enforcemen t Investigativ e Report , concernin g thi s matter ? AI did . Q Okay . An ddurin g tha t - - a s par t
o f that , di dyo u issu e a what' s commonl yknow n a s a lette r o f investigation ? AI did . 

### QAndshowin g yo uwha t I'v emarke d a s CIO , d o yo urecogniz eCIO ? AIdo
.

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q An di s tha t th e lette r o f

investigatio nyo u sent ?

I t i s Q Okay . Di dyo u ge t an yrespons e t o thi s letter ?

N o MR . BROWN ; You r Honor , a t thi s time , I mov e t o admi t C8 , C9 , an dCIO .

MR . TIERNAN : N o objection , JUDG E GOODWIN ; C8 , C9 , an dCI O marke dfo r identificatio nar e receive da s Complainant' s C8 , 9 , an d1 0 respectively . (Complainant' s Exhibit s C8 , C9 , an dCI O admitted ) Q Now , i nconcludin g you r repor t i n Decembe r o f 2009 , di dyo u hav e an yadditional emai l conversatio nwit hM r . Tierna nconcernin g thi s matter ? A As k tha t questio nagain . Q I nDecembe r o f 2009 , di dyo u hav e a nadditional emai l conversatio nwit hMr . Tierna nconcernin g th e matte r o f thi s report ?

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AYes .

Q I' mshowin g yo u wha t I'v e marke d
a s Cll . Mr . Stewart , i s Cl l th e emai l yo u jus t referre dto ? AI t is . Q Al l right . Th e secon dpag e i s you r messag e an dth e firs t pag e i s th e response ; i s tha t correct? AYes , i t is . Q Al l right . An dth e relevan t portio nher e i s you r firs t sentence , th e 1 9 flights , wer e the yrevenu e an dth e answe r a t th e top , yes ? AYes . Q Al l right . MR . BROWN : Mov e fo r admissio no f Cll , You r Honor .

MR . TIERNAN : Jus t (indiscernible

awa yfro mmicrophone ) tak e a loo k a t this . I' msorry . I misse dtha t las t part . Yo u sai d th e - - i t say s 1 9 flight s conducte dbetwee n (indiscernible-awa yfro mmicrophone) . Oh , I

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# n

n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 see . Okay . Okay . N o objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Jus t t o mak e sur e I - - th e certifie dlette r i s 10 ; i s tha t correct?

MR . BROWN : Correct . Lette r o f investigation .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An d 1 1 o f whic h you'r e seekin g admissio ni s th e two-pag e emai l dated , o n th e firs t page , 12/3/2009 .

MR . BROWN : Yes , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Okay , N o objectio nhavin g bee nheard , Cl l fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Complainant' s 11 .

(Complainant' s Exhibi t Cl l admitted ) MR . TIERNAN : I' mjus t no t sur e ho wthi s i s

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , i f it' s no t relevant , it'l l g o t o weight .

MR . TIERNAN : Okay . Yeah . N o objection , 

### Mr
. Stewart , Ineglecte dt o as k

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 on e additiona l questio nwit hrespec t t o C7 .

It' s th e multi-pag e email . Th e questio ni s this . Th e firs t emails , th e las t tw o page s ar e i nMarc han dthe nw e jum p t o July , s o on e migh t presum e fro mC 7 tha t ther e reall ywasn' t
an ycontac t betwee nyo u an dBus hAi r Carg o betwee nMarc han dJuly . I s tha t a correc t statement ?

Q I don' t believ e so . Yo u believ e ther e wa s som e contac t betwee nyou ? A Yes . Q Al l right . I s i t commo nt o g o severa l month s betwee ncontact s wit hth e operator s tha t you'r e

MR . TIERNAN : I' mgoin g t o objec t t o that . I thin k h e - - misstatemen t o f fact . Yo u sai dit' s fro mMarch . Thes e email s star t i nJuly . Oh , I' msorry . Marc h13th . Okay . Ther e - - bu t that' s --oh , I se e wha t you'r e saying . Okay . I' msorry . G o ahead . Q Th e questio nI jus t pose di s - -

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# r ^

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I'l l tr yt o restat e it . I nessenc e goin g

severa l month s betwee ncontact s wit hth e operator s tha t yo u - - fo r whic hyou'r e assigne dPOI , i s tha t common ? ANo t common , bu t i t i s know nt o occu r an dthat' s base do nth e siz e an dscop e o f th e operator . Fo r example , I woul dhav e les s contac t wit ha single-pilo t operato r tha n I woul dwit ha full-blow ncommuter . Q No wI' m

goin g t o sho wyo u wha t I'v e marke da s C12 . An dfo r th e record , wha t i s C12 ? A C1 2 i s a cop yo f Appendi xB fro m Orde r 2153 D an dconsider s th e tabl e o f sanction s fo r enforcemen t program s excep t HazMa t o r hazardou s materials . Q Al l right . An dspee dthi s u p a littl e bit . Thi s basicall ylist s th e sanction s startin g withi nrange s fo r variou s violations , correct ? ACorrect . Q Al l right . An dturnin g to , i f yo u

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 would . Pag e B12 , specificall yFigur e Bl(c) .

Doe s tha t dea l wit hfailur e t o compl ywit h operation s specifications ? AYes . Q Okay . An dsu b2 i nthere , i s tha t th e on e applicabl e here ? AYes . JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry . Wha t pag e ar e w e on , Mr . Brown ?

MR . BROWN : B1 2 an dwe'r e talkin g Figur e Bl(c ) su b2 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o Bl(c ) su b2 woul db e operatio ncontrar yt o Op s Spec , technica l noncompliance .

MR . BROWN : Right . JUDG E GOODWIN ; An dth e commen t woul db e civi l penalt y(indiscernible-awa y fro mmicrophone) . Q Ho wsignifican t i s i t t o yo u a s a PO I tha t a noperator' s no t complyin g wit hit s Op s Specs ? AVer ysignificant .

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### 4 2



# r ^ 1

2 

### 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Ho wso ?

AOperation s specification s ar e i n essenc e a contractua l agreemen t betwee nth e FA Aand a n operato r wherei ntheyagre e thi s i s th e wa yw e ar e going t o conduc t and th e onl y wa ywe'r e going t o conduc t ou r operations . Q D o yo u hav e th e abilit yt o i n essenc e dail ymonito r you r variou s operators ? AYes . Q I mea ncoul d- - i s ther e tha t many hour s i n a daytha t yo u coul dactuall yg o b y andse e eac hon e everyday ?

Q comply ? N o

S o yo u nee dt o rel yo n themt o

Ye s Q D o yo u se e you r rol e a s on e o f qualit ycontro l fo r th e ai r carrier s yo u - - doing you r assignment ? AI f I understandth e question , no . Q It' s they'r e responsibilit yt o comply .
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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 A Yes . MR . BROWN : A t thi s point , I mov e fo r admissio no f C12 .

MR . TIERNAN : N o objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry . Yo u sai dn o objection? Th e reaso n- - I' mgettin g

- - Mr . Brown' s aware , bu t I'v e go t a hearin g proble man dsometime s I ca nhea r an dsometime s I can' t

document ? MR . TIERNAN : Ca nI voi r dir e thi s

JUDG E GOODWIN : Sure . VOI RDIR E B YMR . BROWN : Q Mr . Stewart , what' s thi s documen t intende dt o do ? What' s th e purpos e o f thi s document ? AT o giv e a baselin e indicatio no f wha t sanctio nwoul db e appropriat e give nth e circumstance s o f th e violation . Q S o it' s a recommendation . ACorrect . Q Okay , An dwh o develop s thi s

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n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Complainant' s 1 2

fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Complainant' s 12 .

(Complainant' s Exhibi t 1 2 admitted ) DIREC T EXAMINATIO NCONTINUE D B YMR . BROWN : Q Coupl e - - a fe wmor e question s here . Mr . Stewart , no wwhe nyo u an dI wer e preparin g fo r thi s hearin g las t Tuesda yI believe , I showe dyo u a respons e fro mBus hAi r Carg o t o a motion . D o yo u recal l that ?

I d o An dther e wa s a nExhibi t 4 whic h i s a lis t o f pilots . D o yo u recal l seein g tha t list ? I d o Q Now , prio r t o m yshowin g i t t o yo u o nOctobe r 12t ho f thi s year , ha dyo u eve r
see ntha t lis t before ?



### No , Iha dno t Q 

### Hadyo ueve r i nan yo f

you r discussion s wit hanybod ya t Bus hAi r

Carg o

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 hear do f suc ha list ?

Q No . I f Mr . Tierna nha daske dyo u whethe r tha t woul dcompl ysuc htha t h e wouldn' t nee dt o compl ywit h- - h e coul dd o tha t i nlie u o f complyin g wit hA039 , wha t woul dyo u hav e tol dhim ? A No . Q Wh yd o yo u sa ythat ? AA0 3 9 whic hi s intende dt o single

pilo t comman doperator s wh o ar e allowe da pilo t i ncomman dan du p t o thre e secon di n command s i s simila r t o AO4 0 whic hi s specifi c t o single-pilo t operation s i nwhic hther e i s a singl e pilo t i ncommand , n o SICs . Thos e wer e intende dspecificall ya s th e lis t - - o r th e mean s b ywhic hyo u lis t wh o th e fligh t
cre wi s fo r th e particula r operatio n conducted . Q I f yo u loo k a t C5 , whic hwoul db e AO08 , I believ e it' s o nth e secon dpage , paragrap hD(l)(b) .

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AD(l)(b) .

Q D(l)(b) . AOkay . Q I believ e yo u testifie dbefor e tha t AO0 8 i s issue dt o al l carrier s larg e an d small . AYes . Q Right . ATha t i s correct . Q S o no wA03 9 an dAO40 , i f I understan dwha t yo u jus t said , thos e ar e specifi c t o single-pilo t operations . AWell , specificall yA03 9 i s single

pilo t comman dan dAO4 0 i s singl e pilot . The y ar e - - the yar e distinctl ydifferent . Q Bu t th e on e thin g the yhav e i n commo ni s they'r e fo r single-pilo t operations .

Q Yes . An ds o i f yo u didn' t hav e a single-pilo t operation , yo u wouldn' t b e issuin g A03 9 o r AO40 . ATrue .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q So , wha t i s you r understandin g o f

tha t wor dther e i nth e nex t t o th e las t sentenc e i f applicable ? ATha t i f - - tha t eac hpilo t tha t i s t o b e listed , i f thos e Op s Spec s ar e relevant , tha t i s wher e the yar e t o b e listed . Q S o i f on e o r th e othe r ha s bee n issued , i t mus t b e complie dwith . AYes . Q An di f neithe r ha s bee nissued , the nyo u ca nus e th e separat e list . AYes . Q Bu t a s I understoo dyou r testimony , Mr . Tierna no r n o on e els e fro m Bus hAi r Carg o aske dyo u tha t question . ANo t t o m yknowledge . Q I nyou r nin e year s o f experienc e wit hth e FAA , hav e yo u eve r see na lis t simila r t o th e Exhibi t 4 I showe dyo u o nth e 12t ho f Octobe r thi s year ? ANo , no t i ntha t format . MR . BROWN : Nothin g further . You r

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Honor , JUDG E GOODWIN : S o le t me , i nit s

simples t form , mak e sur e I understand . Essentiall ywha t you'r e sayin g i s tha t ther e wer e 1 9 flight s flownwher e the , m ywords , secon doffice r wh o wasn' t liste da s o nth e Op s Spe c a s bein g properl ycertifie dt o fl ytha t particula r - - th e perso nma yhav e ha da legitimat e pilot' s license , bu t i norde r fo r hi mt o fl y- - o r he r t o fl yon e o f Mr . Tiernan' s aircraft , h e ha dt o b e liste da s eithe r a pilo t o r secon di ncomman di norde r t o fly . I s tha t th e

MR . BROWN : That' s th e gis t o f it . I f I ma yrestate , basicall yyo u hav e on e PI C
an dthe nyo u coul dhav e u p t o thre e SIC s i s th e testimon ycam e out .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . Secon di n command . MR . BROWN : Secon di ncommand . S o h e ha d- - basicall yth e compan ycoul dno t us e a perso na s secon di ncomman dunles s th e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 perso nwa s liste di nA039 . That' s ou r

position . That' s wha t Mr . Stewar t jus t testifie dto .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t a perso nwh o wa s a PI C coul dfl ya s a nSIC ?

MR . BROWN : Actuall yno . There' s differen t positions .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . BROWN : I mea nyo u coul dlis t
a perso na s bot hPI C an dSIC .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Jus t wan t t o mak e sur e I understan dbefor e Mr . Tierna n ha s a chanc e t o cross . Cross , Mr . Tiernan ?

MR . TIERNAN : Yes . STEPHE NJ . STEWAR T testifie da s follow s on :

CROS S EXAMINATIO N B YMR . TIERNAN : Q Mr . Stewart , wa s Bus hAi r Carg o require dt o provid e yo u a pilot s lis t o f qualifie dpilots ? Lik e a separat e list ? I n othe r words , yo u sai dtha t yo u tol d- - yo u

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### i 5 1

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 testifie dtha t Mr . - - o r tha t I wa s neve r - -

Bus hAi r Carg o neve r provide dyo u tha t exhibi t tha t w e cal l Exhibi t 4 . Bu t i s Bus hAi r Carg o require dt o giv e yo u tha t list ? ANo . Q Okay . An dthey'r e jus t require d t o kee p tha t lis t fo r you r inspectio nupo n demand , correct ? ACorrect . Q An dyo u neve r demande do r yo u neve r requeste dt o se e tha t pilo t list , di d you ' AN o

Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN ; S o I understan d you r question , whethe r o r no t - - the ydon' t hav e t o provid e t o th e FAAth e for mthat' s fille dou t MR . TIERNAN : That' s correc t

JUDG E GOODWIN : unles s requested , MR . TIERNAN : That' s correc t

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . MR . TIERNAN : Okay . Q An ddoe s th e Op s Spec s specif y wha t forma t tha t pilo t lis t mus t b e kept ? AWhic hOp s Spec ? Q I' m

sorry . It' s AO08(d)(1)(b) . AI nm yopinion , yes , i t does . I n th e cas e o f a single-pilo t comman do r a single-pilo t operator , th e fligh t cre wmember s mus t b e liste do nth e respectiv e Op s Spec . Q Oh , no . I' mtalkin g abou t - - thi s i s Op s Spe c (d)(1)(b)(2) , whic hsay s - - coul d yo u ge t tha t out ? It' s m yExhibi t 4 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Whic hexhibit ? MR . TIERNAN : Exhibi t 4 . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Yeah , bu t you r questio n MR . TIERNAN : Oh , I' msorry . I' m sorry . That' s no t correct . It' s Exhibi t 7 .

MR . BROWN : It' s als o th e secon d pag e o f Exhibi t C5 , You r Honor .

MR . TIERNAN : Yo u kno wwhat , let' s

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 jus t sta ywit hC5 . Mak e i t simple . JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t I though t you r questio nwa s di di t specif ya format .

MR . TIERNAN : Yes . I nothe r word s I ca nstar t over . You r Honor .

Let' s JUDG E GOODWIN :

MR . TIERNAN : Okay , JUDG E GOODWIN ; Al l righ t

Rephras e th e question . Th e sentenc e i n(d ) (1 ) (b ) (2 ) , C5 , Pag e 2 , halfwa ydow ntha t paragrap hB , i t say s eac hpilo t mus t specificall y- - eac hpilo t
mus t b e specificall yliste db ynam e an dairma n certificat e numbe r o na lis t o f pilot s maintaine db yth e certificat e holde r a t it s mai nbas e o f operation . Okay . S o doe s ou r Exhibi t C 4 - - o r I' msorr y- - ou r Exhibi t 4 satisf ytha t requirement? AThes e ar e you r exhibits ? Q 

### bottom
. Yeah
. S o it'l lb enumbe r 4 a t th e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t jus t t o

clarif yth e record , Counsel' s referrin g t o Pag e 2 o f 5 , smal l d , pare n1 , clos e paren , whic hi s cre wmembe r requirement s an dunde r tha t pare nsmal l b , clos e parens , an dit' s - - look s lik e it' s th e secon dsentenc e beginnin g eac hpilot . MR . TIERNAN : That' s correct .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An dyo u refe r t o whic hexhibit , Mr . Tiernan?

MR . TIERNAN : Respondent' s Exhibi t 4 . Fo r th e pilot , th e pilo t list . Q An dm yquestio ni s doe s tha t satisf ythi s Op s Spec , thi s firs t par t o f th e sentence , eac hpilo t mus t b e specificall y liste db ynam e an dairma ncertificat e numbe r o na lis t o f pilot s maintaine db yth e certificat e holder ? AI nm yopinion , no . Q An dwh ynot ? ATh e res t o f th e sentenc e whic hyo u di dno t rea di s o r liste di nOperation s

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Specificatio nA03 9 o r AO4 0 Okay . We'l l ge t t o that . Bu t u p t o tha t point , i s i t satisfied ? AI t satisfie s th e genera l thrus t o f tha t paragrap hi nparticularl y- - i n particula r it s referenc e t o 135.63 . Q Okay . S o I' mjus t tryin g t o figur e ou t wher e you'r e goin g wit hthis . S o i s i t you r opinio ntha t th e operato r mus t maintai na pilot s lis t an dlis t tha t pilo t i n th e Op s Specs ? AYes . Q An dthi s - - okay . AI do . Q Okay . S o wit hkeepin g tha t lis t
a t th e operator' s plac e o f business , doe s ou r Exhibi t 4 satisf ytha t requiremen t fo r keepin g th e lis t a t - - fo r tha t par t - - th e lis t a t th e operator' s mai noffices ? Doe s tha t satisf ythat ? AFo r tha t singl e part . Q Yes .

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 ASpecificall yi f the yhav e a lis t

o f cre wmembers .

A Q Correc t Ye s Okay , Now , i n - - wha t you'r e sayin g i s tha t w e als o - - o r Bus hAi r Carg o als o ha d t o lis t tha t SI C i n it s Op s Specs . AYes . Q Okay . S o tha t bring s u s t o th e secon dpart . S o w e satisfie dth e - - o r Bus h Ai r Carg o satisfie dth e firs t part . W e go t
ou r maintenanc e - - w e go t ou r lis t o f pilot s maintaine da t th e office . Okay ? S o no ww e hav e th e secon dpar t o f th e sentenc e whic h obviousl yth e certificat e actio nwa s al l about . An ds o i t start s maintai n- - certificat e holder s ar e it s mai nbas e o f operations . Okay . An d the nyo u hav e a n or , th e firs t or , correct? I t say s o r liste di n Operation s Specification s A03 9 o r AO4 0 i f applicable . No wit' s you r positio ntha t tha t sentenc e require s th e operato r t o lis t thi s

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 SI C i nA03 9 becaus e w e hav e n o AO40 . S o AO O

- - I' m sorr y- - A039 , shoul db e liste di n that , correct ? ACorrect . Q Okay . Now , th e o r - - th e firs t
or . Okay . I t say s o r liste di nOperation s Specification s A039 . Okay . An dw e ca n basicall ytak e th e secon do r ou t AO40 , bu t u p unti l tha t point , i f yo u don' t hav e i f applicabl e i nthere , d o yo u hav e an yquestio n whethe r yo u ca nhav e either/or . Yo u ca n eithe r hav e th e - - yo u ca neithe r hav e th e lis t a t th e offic e o r - - o r lis t the mi nth e Op s Specs , withou t th e res t o f th e sentence . Woul dtha t b e you r interpretation ? Doe s tha t mak e sense ? A Yes , i t make s sense , an dn o Q Okay . S o whe ni t say s yo u maintai na lis t a t th e bas e o f operation s o r liste di nOperation s Specification s A039 , doesn' t tha t giv e yo u th e optio no f doin g on e o r th e othe r an dyou r answe r i s no ? O r doe s

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 i t giv e yo u th e optio no f doin g on e o r th e

other ? Take nonl ylik e tha t an d- - yes . bu t you'r e Q Okay . No ww e ge t t o th e but . AYou'r e parsin g th e sentence . Q I agree . No wwe'r e goin g t o ge t t o th e res t o f th e sentenc e whic hi s th e ugl y part . Okay . Okay . Now , i t say s A- - o r AO40 , whic hdoesn' t appl ybecaus e w e don' t hav e this . ACorrect . Q Correct . Okay . An dthe ni t says , comma , i f applicable . Now , i f applicable , tha t i s a claus e tha t refer s bac k t o somethin g that' s goin g t o tur nthi s whol e cas e o nit s hea d- - thi s whol e sentenc e o nit s head , correct ? Ye s



### Okay
. S o wha t

doe s i f

applicabl e refe r to ? Tha t

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Whic hclaus e i ntha t sentence ?

A clause . Specificall ylisted . Defin e

Q Okay . No wobviousl yyou'r e no t a lawyer . Otherwis e you' db e ou t stealin g mone y fro msomebody , right . Okay . S o you'v e ha dn o trainin g i ncontrac t instructio no r hav e you ? ANo . Q Okay . O r rule s o f constructio no r

- - i nlega l document s o r technica l writing ? ANo . Q Okay . S o wha t you'r e sayin g i s i f applicable , tha t refer s - - you r argumen t a s I understan di t i s i f applicabl e basicall y state s tha t i f A03 9 i s liste di nth e Op s Spec s o r Bus hAi r Carg o ha s A0 3 9 , i f applicabl e require s yo u t o no t onl ykee p a lis t o f pilot s a t th e bas e o f operation s bu t als o lis t tha t pilo t i nA039 . AYes . Q Okay . Doe s i f - - wouldn' t i t als o refe r t o AO40 ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AYes .

Q Okay . An dwouldn' t i t als o - - an d i t obviousl yapplie s t o i f applicabl e A03 9 becaus e i t ha s a no r i nthere ; i s tha t you r position ? AYes . Q S o wouldn' t i t als o b e relevan t t o o r appl yt o a t it s mai nbas e o f operations ? An dth e onl ythin g separatin g thos e thre e sentence s ar e th e wor dor . S o

Yes . Okay , S o i f applicabl e - - ho w abou t this . Afte r bas e o f operations , i f yo u pu t a nan di nthere , wouldn' t tha t b e mor e appropriate ? I nothe r words , you' dhav e t o pu t holde r a t it s mai nbas e o f operatio nan d liste di nOperatio nSpecificatio nA03 9 o r AO4 0 i f applicable ? Wouldn' t tha t mak e mor e sense ? Wouldn' t tha t b e - - I mea nt o yo u a s a layperso nreadin g it . I nothe r words , chang e tha t firs t o r t o a nand . ANo , becaus e I believ e tha t th e

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# r ^

r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 inten t i s tha t th e controllin g documen t i n

thi s sentenc e ar e th e tw o A03 9 o r AO4 0 o r th e record , i f A03 9 an dAO4 0 ha dno t bee nissued . Q Okay , Bu t you'v e alread y testifie dtha t th e i f applicabl e applie s t o th e mai n- - keepin g a lis t a t you r mai nbas e o f operation s too . I t applie s t o al l thre e clauses , correct ? AYes . Q Okay . S o doesn' t tha t mea nsinc e they'r e al l separate db yorigin , yo u ca nd o an yon e o f th e three ?

Q No t i nm yopinion . Okay . Whe nI firs t I don' t lik e bein g m yow nattorne yher e becaus e w e kno wwha t happens . Bu t whe nI firs t contacte d yo u wit hregar dt o trainin g u p a nSI C

Ye s Q
a letter ? d o yo u recal l m e writin g yo u

Yes . I f yo u loo k a t ou r Exhibi t Numbe r

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# r1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 1 , it' s date dFebruar y9th , 2009 .

Q Yes , I recal l thi s lette r Okay . An dessentiall ywha t doe s tha t lette r state ? AInten dt o notif yyo u o f Bus hAi r Cargo' s compan ytrainin g includin g ne whir e secon dofficer s beginnin g Februar y19t h throug hFebruar y23rd . Q Okay . An di s tha t require db yth e Op s Spec s o f Bus hAi r Cargo , tha t lette r - - i n th e trainin g program ? AYes . Q Okay . An dho wabou t Exhibi t 2 - - ou r Exhibi t 2 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o Respondent' s 2 ? MR . TIERNAN : Yeah , Respondent' s 2 . Q Februar y12th , 2009 . AThat' s a lette r o f authorizatio n writte nb ym e authorizin g Ala nLarso nt o conduc t n o mor e tha ntw o SI C check s fo r th e benefi t o f Bus hAi r Cargo .

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r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q An dwil l yo u testif yt o th e fact s

tha t le du p t o tha t lette r - - yo u issuin g tha t letter ? AYo u contacte dm e abou t th e trainin g an dth e subsequen t nee dfo r checkin g o f th e airline' s qualificatio nan dyou r date s conflicte dwit hm yschedule . I wa s no t goin g t o b e availabl e t o d o thos e checks . Q Okay . AS o w e reache da mutua l an d satisfactor ycompromis e o f havin g Ala nd o th e check s i nlie u o f me . Q Okay . D o yo u recal l anythin g abou t a nurgenc yo f gettin g a nSI C don e quickl y- - SI C chec k rid e don e quickly ? ANo t specifically , bu t it' s understandabl e give nm yknowledg e o f you r operation . Q Uh-huh . An dwha t wa s that ? ATha t th e bul k o f you r flyin g don e i nwinte r o nskis . Q Okay .

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r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AAn d tha t tha t windo wwa s narrow .

Q Right . D o yo u recal l i f ther e - - i ntha t particula r situatio ni f w e intende dt o us e Mr . Koo nimmediatel yafte r th e chec k ride ? AYes . Q Okay . MR . TIERNAN : I' d lik e t o mov e fo r admissio no f Respondent' s Exhibit s 1 an d 2 .

MR . BROWN : N o objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : Respondent' s 1 an d 2 fo r identificatio nar e receive dint o evidenc e a s Respondent' s 1 an d 2 . (Respondent' s Exhibit s 1 an d 2 admitted ) Q An d the ncoul dyo u tak e a loo k a t Exhibi t - - Respondent' s Exhibi t 3 . AExhibi t 3 i s a n FAAFor m8410 3 typicall yuse ddocumen t tha t a n airma nha s b e give na competenc yo r proficienc ycheck . Q Okay . An d i s tha t you r nam e a t th e bottom ? D o yo u recogniz e tha t name ? It' s
no t you . A t th e bottom ?

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q

A
corner ? Q A Q A Yeah . Yo u mea nth e lowe r right-han d

Ye s I t i s blank . Oh . I nExhibi t 3 ? Yeah . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Th e Court' s i s blan k a s wel l

MR . TIERNAN : Oh , that' s fo r a n FAAinspector . Q D o yo u kno wwh o fille dou t thi s documen t b yanychance ? AI recogniz e th e nam e - - th e printe dnam e an d signatur e o f th e chec k airlin e wh o i s Ala nG . Larson . Q Okay . Okay . An d i n you r opinion , doe s thi s documen t basicall ysatisf y requirement s o f qualifyin g Mr . Koo na s a n SI C i nBus hAi r Cargo ? AYes .

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r1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Okay . S o u p t o thi s poin t an du p

t o thi s chec k ride . Bus hAi r Cargo' s don e everythin g appropriat e accordin g t o it s 1 3 5 specification ; i s tha t correct? AYes . MR . TIERNAN : I' dlik e t o mov e fo r admissio no f Exhibi t - - Respondent' s Exhibi t Numbe r 3 . MR . BROWN : Object . Foundation . Tha t ha s no t bee nauthenticated . H e sai dhe' s neve r see nit . W e don' t kno wwher e i t cam e from . H e recognize s Ala nLarson' s signature , bu t beyon dtha t w e nee da foundation .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; objectio na t thi s time . I'l l sustai nth e

MR . TIERNAN : Okay . Q Wa s i t you r - - hav e yo u eve r see n thi s documen t before ? I s i t i nyou r records , Mr . Stewart ? ANo . Q Okay . D o yo u hav e an yreaso nt o believ e Mr . Koo nwa s no t qualifie da s a nSI C

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 o nFebruar y21 , 2 009 ?

A No . Q Okay . An dwa s ther e an ytyp e o f questio nwhethe r o r no t u p t o thi s poin t - - u p t o th e dat e o f thi s chec k rid e - - thi s apparen t chec k rid e o f course , Februar y21 , 2009 , wa s ther e an yquestio no r - - wa s ther e anyquestio nwhatsoeve r tha t Mr . Koo nwa s no t qualified ? N o Q Wa s ther e anyquestio nsubsequen t t o thi s dat e tha t h e wa s qualifie du p t o tha t point ? Fo r example , there' s n o allegatio n tha t Mr . Koo nwa s no t qualifie dbecaus e h e wasn' t properl y- - didn' t properl yhav e a chec k ride ? ANo , ther e isn't . Q Okay . An dth e onl yreaso nwe'r e her e essentiall yi s tha t Mr . Koo nwa s liste d
o nth e - - i nA039 , correct ? ACorrect . Q Okay . I s - - Exhibi t 3 , i s tha t a

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 standar dchec k rid e documen t -- a cop yo f one ?

A I t i s a - - repea t th e question . pleas e Q I s thi s a standar dfor mdocument ? AYes . Q An d wha t doe s i t signify? AI t signifie s tha t a particula r airma nwa s teste dan d eithe r foun dcompeten t
o r no t competen t i n th e multitud e o f task s liste di n th e variou s fields . Q A Q Okay . An d fo r wha t company ? Fo r Bus hAi r Cargo . Okay , MR . TIERNAN ; I woul dmov e fo r admissio njus t fo r th e fac t tha t ther e wa s a chec k rid e complete dan d thi s documen t existe d
a t Februar y21 , 2009 .

MR . BROWN : Sam e objection . You r Honor , JUDG E GOODWIN : I'l l sustai ni t a t thi s point . MR
. TIERNAN : Okay
. I'l lmov eon .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Okay . S o i nFebruar y21 , yo u wer e

unde r th e impressio nwhil e yo u kne wwe' dgive n chec k rides . Whe ndi dyo u firs t discove r - - well , obviousl ywhe ndi dyo u firs t discove r Mr . Koo nwa s qualifie dan dwa s performin g revenu e flights ? AI don' t kno wfo r certain . Q Okay . I t wa s - - I thin k yo u testifie dbefor e i t wa s aroun dJuly ? AYes . Q Tha t yo u inquired ? I thin k th e email s reflec t that . A Yes , I woul dagree . Q Okay . Di dyo u kno w- - o r di dyo u

- - wa s tha t a concer no f your s - - I gues s wha t I' mgettin g a t i s wh yth e four-mont hperiod ? Wha t happene di ntha t four-mont hwher e yo u decide dou r - - whe nyo u inquire dabou t whethe r o r no t Mr . Koo nha dbee nadde dt o th e Op s Specs ? I f yo u recall . AWell , I woul dhav e t o conjec t base do nm yknowledg e o f wha t I d o fro mda yt o

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# r 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 day , seasonally , tha t tha t woul dhav e bee na

perio do f tim e wher e we'r e startin g t o ramp u p an ddoin g fa r mor e check s tha nw e d o th e res t
o f year , mor e surveillanc e o f operators . They'r e gearin g u p fo r thei r summe r season . Q S o yo u don' t recal l an yspecifi c inciden t o r anythin g tha t kin do f clicke don , saying , hey , wai t a minute , Koon' s no t o nth e Op s Specs ? ANo . Q N o on e els e cam e t o yo u an dsaid , hey , what' s goin g o nhere , thi s guy' s no t o n th e Op s Spec s o r whateve r happene dt o thi s SI C rid e o r anythin g lik e that ? ANo . Agai nI woul djus t hav e t o - - I can' t sa yfo r certain , Mr . Tiernan . Wha t I believ e i s tha t I wa s probabl yconductin g a tas k associate dwit hyou r certificat e an d notice dthe ntha t h e wa s no t listed . An dI believ e tha t tha t i s wha t i s suggeste di nth e strin g email s tha t w e exchanged . I t coul d hav e bee na s simpl e as , yo u know , th e

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# r1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 discussio nw e ha dabou t Telaquan a Lak e an d

wha t you'r e require dfo r - - an dthe nth e ligh t goe s on , oh , yeah , di dyo u eve r chec k tha t pilo t ou t A t th e tim e - - well , yo u testifie d tha t violatio no f you r Op s Spec s i s - - an dI agre e - - i s a substantia l an dsignifican t violation , no t complyin g wit hyou r Op s Specs . A Yes . Q Don' t yo u agree . I mea nan dit' s sever e an dI understan dtha t an dyo u understan dtha t obviously . I mea ndi di t eve r cros s you r min d- - well , le t m e ask , di dyo u eve r sa yanythin g t o m e o r t o anybod yabou t o r emai l o r anythin g abou t addin g Mr . Koo nt o th e Op s Spec s a t anytim e prio r t o sa yJun e o f 2009 ? ANo . Q Okay . Gettin g bac k t o th e languag e an dyo u ca nloo k a t C5 , 1 o f 2 - - o r 2 o f 5 - - 2 o f 6 ? Pag e 2 , (d ) (1 ) (b ) . Gettin g bac k t o tha t languag e again .

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# n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 testifie dtha t i f yo u pu t a afte r tha t

firs t - - o r tha t firs t o r pu t a nan di nthere , i t woul dno t b e th e same , i t woul db e different . I nothe r words , a t it s mai nbas e o f operation s an dliste di nOperation s Specification s A03 9 o r AO4 0 i f applicable . No wyo u state dan dtestifie dtha t yo u believ e th e company' s goin g t o hav e t o kee p a list , whic hI totall yagre e with , an dtha t the yhav e t o b e liste di nth e Op s Specs . Don' t yo u - - agai nI kno wI aske dthi s questio nbefore , bu t afte r we'v e bee n- - afte r yo u thin k abou t it , i f yo u chang e tha t firs t o r t o a nand , wouldn' t tha t reall ycove r wha t yo u reall y wan t t o sa yan dwha t you r interpretatio nis ? I nothe r words , eac hpilo t mus t b e specificall yliste db ynam e an dairma n certificat e o na lis t o f pilot s maintaine db y th e certificat e holde r a t it s mai nbas e o f operations . There' s you r on e requirement . And , MR . BROWN : You r Honor , I hav e t o

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 object . Thi s sound s lik e simpl yargumen t - -

ou r mai nquestio nan dI believ e an yquestio n h e coul das k a t thi s poin t ha s bee naske dan d answered . We'v e bee nove r this . S o I woul d objec t t o an yfurthe r comment s o nth e writing .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' mgoin g t o sustai nbecaus e i nyou r cross , yo u go t th e witnes s t o admi t tha t he' s no t traine dlegall y
an dI thin k you'r e I certainl ythin k i t goe s t o argumen t an dwha t if s I thin k don' t reall yhel p th e Cour t i ndecidin g what' s - - wher e w e ar e an dwher e we'r e going . Q A n dth e purpos e o f AO08(2 ) (d ) (1 ) (b ) , th e purpos e o f tha t i s t o essentiall yassur e operationa l contro l o f th e operation ; i s tha t you r interpretation ? I thin k yo u testifie dt o word s t o tha t effect . AI ntha t specifi c regard , yes . Q Okay . An dthe nfo r A039 , isn' t tha t th e sam e thing ? Isn' t tha t th e same , t o guarante e operationa l contro l o f thos e peopl e an dmak e sur e tha t onl ythos e peopl e hav e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 operationa l contro l ove r th e company?

ANo . Q Okay . Wha t woul db e th e purpos e o f A03 9 then ? AT o lis t thos e fligh t cre wmember s wh o ar e onl yt o b e use di nth e operation , bu t th e SIC s liste dmigh t no t hav e operationa l control . Q I totall yagre e wit hthat . AS o that' s wh yno . Q Okay . S o - - bu t don' t the y addres s th e sam e thing . AO0 8 state s al l pilot s an dA03 9 list s al l pilots . ACorrect . Q Okay . S o don' t the yhav e th e sam e purpos e t o assur e operationa l contro l i nthei r ow ncapacities ? I nothe r words , yo u hav e th e directo r o f maintenanc e liste dfo r operationa l contro l purposes , correct? AYes . Q Okay . S o doesn' t AOO 8 an dA03 9 basicall yhav e th e sam e purpos e t o assur e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 operationa l control ? On e i s mor e specifi c

tha nth e other . On e list s thos e peopl e an d th e othe r on e basicall ytell s yo u ho wyo u lis t them . AState di ntha t manne r then , base d

o nyou r question ,

Uh-huh , no . becaus e a s you'r e stating , thi s ha s th e ultimat e weigh t fo r operationa l control , AO08 . Q AO08 . AWher e A0 3 9 lik e AOO 6 o r AOO 7 ar e ver ynarro waspects . Thes e ar e th e people . Q S o '0 8 basicall ysay s kee p a lis t
o f pilot s o r compl ywit h'3 9 an d'3 9 basicall y list s specificall yth e pilots . AYes . Q S o the ycomplemen t eac hother . ACorrect . Q Ho wlon g doe s i t typicall ytak e t o modif yoperation s specifications ? AI t depends . I t i s a softwar e

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 application-base dprogram . Typicall yi f al l

th e star s align , yo u ca nchang e a nOp s Spe c i n sa y15 , 2 0 minutes . Q Okay . AO nothe r occasions , th e system' s down , i t ma ytak e days . Q Okay . Wh o - - an dweeks , month s sometimes? A N o I hav e no t see ni t mor e tha n a coupl e day s Q Mor e tha na coupl e days ? AYeah . Q Okay . An ddoe s i t requir e th e PO I fo r a certai noperato r t o chang e thos e o r doe s i t - - anybod yca nchang e them . ACorrect . Q Okay . Anybod yca nchang e them . AUnde r th e directio no f th e POI . Q Okay . ATher e ar e Op s Spec s tha t no t ever y disciplin e ca nmanipulate . I ca nd o al l th e A' s an dth e B' s an dth e C's , bu t no t th e

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 maintenanc e Op s Specs . Okay , Wer e yo u i nthi s particula r situation , ar e yo u uniquel y qualifie dt o chang e A0 3 9 t o ad dMr . Koon ? AYes . Q Okay . An dho wlon g woul di t tak e yo u t o d o tha t upo nrequest? A1 5 minutes . Q Okay . An dwh o els e woul db e abl e t o d o tha t beside s you ? A Othe r op s inspectors , maintenanc e inspectors . I f delegate dt o d o so , aviatio n safet ytechnician . Q Gettin g bac k t o C5 , secon dpage , th e las t sentenc e fo r tha t paragraph , i t say s thi s informatio nmus t b e availabl e fo r inspectio nb yth e administrato r a s specifie d i nSectio n135.63 . Okay . An dtha t refer s t o what ? AYes . Al l record s tha t a noperato r mus t b e maintai n- - tha t mus t b e availabl e fo r inspectio nar e specificall yliste di ntha t

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r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 rule . Okay . I t say s thi s information .

S o thi s information . AThi s informatio nbein g thes e pilots . Q Okay . Th e lis t o f pilots .

Q Correct . Okay . An dthere' s n o requiremen t her e t o provid e tha t lis t o f pilots , i s there , t o th e FA

Ao r t o th e POI ? AYes . O nrequest . Q O nrequest . Bu t otherwis e ther e i s none . Yo u hav e t o reques t i t befor e it' s

- - i nothe r words , th e operato r doesn' t hav e t o submi t a lis t ever ytw o month s o r every . N o Q

Q change s o r somethin g No . Okay . S o essentiall yi f yo u maintai nthi s pilot' s list , yo u eventuall y maintai ni t - - o r actuall y- - yeah . An yothe r

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# r ^

r ^

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 operato r ha s a multi-pilo t operation . Ar e

the yrequire dt o giv e yo u anythin g othe r --o r anythin g mor e tha n- - o r b e require dt o d o anythin g mor e tha njus t kee p a lis t o nthei r ow nan dno t notif yth e FAAabou t secon di n command s o r th e firin g o f secon di ncommand s o r th e addition .

That' s correct , unles s otherwis e requested . Q Unles s requested . AYeah . Q Ho wman yoperation s ar e ther e lik e Bus hAi r Carg o wher e yo u hav e a single-pilo t PI C wit hSICs ? Ho wman yd o yo u kno wof ? AI nthi s region , I believ e you'r e th e onl yone .

Hav e yo u see n- - yo u probabl y weren' t

48 , yeah . Ther e ar e fa r mor e i ncontiguou s

Right . S o thi s A039 , that' s you r interpretatio no f havin g t o - - th e FAA' s i n

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 thi s cas e interpretatio no f havin g t o lis t

thos e SIC s - - it' s a ver yuniqu e situation . correct ? A Q A whole . I nthi s region .

I nthi s region . Yeah . Bu t no t i n th e FAAa s a

Q Sure . MR . TIERNAN : You r Honor , ma yI reques t a brie f fiv e minutes . I' m sur e Mr . Stewart' s gettin g tired .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . Actuall yI usuall ybrea k abou t 10:3 0 o r so . Let' s tak e a ten-minut e break .

MR . TIERNAN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : We'l l g o of f th e record . (Of f record )

(O nrecord ) JUDG E GOODWIN : Remin dth e witnes s you'r e stil l unde r oath .

Mr . Stewart , whe nyo u determine d

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 tha t a certificat e - - o r a civi l penalt yma y

b e i n lin e o r whe nyo u discovere dtha t yo u believe dther e wa s a violation , di d yo u g o righ t t o A03 9 an d no t conside r AO0 8 o r di d yo u

- - tha t didn' t cros s you r min dcheckin g AO08 ? AI don' t recall . Q Yo u don' t recall . Okay . I n you r opinion , doe s Op s Spe c AOO 8 hav e anythin g t o d o wit hthi s violation ? ANo . Q Okay . MR . TIERNAN : I hav e n o furthe r questions . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yredirect ? MR . BROWN : Briefly , You r Honor . Than k you . STEPHE NJ . STEWAR T testifie da s follow s on :

REDIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . BROWN : Q Lookin g a t C5 , th e paragrap ho n th e secon dpag e we'v e bee nlookin g at , I

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### 8 2 

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2 

### 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 notice , yo u know , a t th e bottomtha t there' s

a referenc e t o 135.63 . I s i t fai r t o sa yt o 135.6 3 basicall ylist s th e record s tha t th e company' s suppose dt o keep including pilo t records ? A Ye s Q Al l right . And tha t woul db e something availabl e fo r yo u t o loo k a t i f yo u di dwhat' s calle da bas e inspection ; i s tha t a fai r statement ? A Yes . Q Okay . D o yo u recal l doin g an y bas e inspection s o n Bus hAi r Cargo ? AYes . Q When , i f yo u recal l o r - - I kno w I' mputting yo u o n tha t spot . AThe yhav e bee n- - theyhav e bee n conducte di n - - concurrentl yt o chec k ride s o r observation s o f a training programand m y recollectio ni s typicall yi n th e spring , February , March , somewher e i n there . Q Februaryan

d March . D o yo u recal l

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 i n200 9 tha t yo u di da bas e inspection ?

AYes . Q D o yo u recal l abou t whe ni t was ? AOthe r tha nt o sa yi t wa s winter , no . I' m

guessin g - - I' mgoin g t o sa yMarc h
an dI kno wtha t i t wa s i nth e sprin g becaus e i t wa s conducte da t wha t I believ e i s no w calle dMustan g Ai r a t Palme r Airpor t an di t
wa s jus t blowin g lik e craz yan dth e ramp , parkin g lot s wer e al l a glaz e o f ic e wit ha thi nlaye r o f wate r ove r the man dI recal l ho w challengin g i t wa s jus t t o ge t fro ma vehicl e int o th e buildin g withou t gettin g blow nover . Q S o tha t wa s March , yo u said . AI believ e March , yes . Q Yeah . I believ e yo u testifie d earlie r tha t yo u couldn' t d o th e chec k ride s th e latte r par t o f Februar ybecaus e yo u wer e otherwis e busy ; i s tha t correct?

Correc t Okay , Wher e wer e yo u a t tha t perio do f time ?

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AI wa s i n Honolul u gettin g typ e

rate di n a Supe r 3 . Q An d whe ndi d yo u ge t bac k fro m that , d o yo u recall ? ATh e 2n d o r 3r d o f March . Q I t wa s afte r yo u go t bac k tha t yo u di dth e bas e inspection . A Yes . Q Al l right . I f you'l l loo k a t Respondent' s Exhibits , Exhibi t 4 , di d yo u se e what' s bee nmarke da s Exhibi t 4 whe nyo u di d you r bas e inspectio ni n Marc ho f 200 9 a t Bus h Ai r Cargo ? ANo , I di d not . Q I f yo u woul dloo k a t Exhibi t 3 fo r jus t a moment . Yo u testifie dearlie r yo u don' t recal l eve r havin g see nthis ; i s tha t correct? Tha t i s correct . Q Right . Th e questio nI woul das k is , i s th e for mitsel f - - neve r mind , yo u know , what' s writte no n here , bu t jus t th e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 for mitself , whe ni t i s fille dout , i s tha t

somethin g tha t i s typicall ysen t t o yo u a s th e POI ? I tak e m yow n- - le t m e explai n tha t thi s i s a - - whe nit' s provide db yth e FAA , it' s a three-pag e NCR . I f I d o th e check , I tak e th e bottommos t cop yfo r m y record s an dth e to p tw o copie s fo r th e operator . Typicall yon e goe s i nth e pilot' s recor dboo k wit hth e reflectio no f check s an d training , e t cetera , an dth e secon di s ofte n give nt o th e pilo t fo r hi s persona l records . Bu t Al l right . Yo u sai dwhe nyo u d o it . Wha t abou t i nth e circumstanc e reflecte d i nExhibi t 3 wher e anothe r chec k airma nha s don e tha t check . I ntha t circumstance , i s tha t somethin g tha t woul dtypicall y- - woul d yo u b e give na cop yo f it ?

N o Q S o th e fac t tha t yo u don' t recal l seein g thi s woul dno t b e unusua l give nth e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 informatio nprovide do ni t

A Give nth e circumstanc e tha t I di d
no t d o th e check , no , i t woul dno t b e unusua l tha t I di dno t se e a cop yo f it .

MR . BROWN : Nothin g further , You r Honor . point s MR . TIERNAN : Jus t tw o shor t

STEPHE NJ . STEWAR T testifie da s follow s on ;

RECROS S EXAMINATIO N B YMR . TIERNAN : Q One , Mustan g Ai r i s no t Bus hAi r Cargo' s bas e o f operations , correct? ACorrect . Q Okay . An dthe ni f - - I gues s th e presumptio nher e i s tha t Bus hAi r Carg o di d
no t hav e a lis t o f pilot s a t th e tim e becaus e

- - well , woul dyo u - - i s tha t somethin g you' d b e lookin g fo r i nth e document s i nth e - - i n you r bas e inspectio na t Mustan g Air ? AAlis t o f pilots ?

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Yeah .

ANo . Q Okay . An dd o yo u recal l a lis t - - I mea nobviousl yi f w e didn' t hav e one , yo u woul dhav e sai dwhere' s you r lis t o f pilots . correct ? Ye s Wha t I believ e require s clarificatio ni s tha t yo u hav e a binde r se t u p fo r eac ho f thes e people . Yo u hav e a n independen t recor dfo r eac hon e o f thes e individual s liste do nthi s shee t

MR . BROWN ; Fo r th e record . You r Honor , tha t woul db e Exhibi t 4 A Exhibi t 4 . Listin g o f qualifie d
cre wpe r AOO8 . Th e individua l folder s yo u hav e fo r eac ho f thos e cre wmember s liste di s th e equivalen t o f thi s list . Yo u ar e i n complianc e wit h135.63 . Q I agree . AOkay . Q I agree . AS o I don' t understan dyou r

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 questio nthen . Well , doe s no t AO0 8 requir e a lis t
o f pilots ? A Ye s Okay . Di dtha t qualif ya s th e lis t o f pilots ? AI t qualifie s a s a lis t o f pilots . Q Okay . An dyo u don' t eve r remembe r ou r - - d o yo u eve r recal l Bus hAi r Carg o no t complyin g wit htha t - - wit hAOO 8 wit hregar d t o th e pilo t list ? A No . I' m

statin g tha t I hav e no t
see nthi s list . Q Okay . An dyou'v e neve r requeste d it . O r you'v e neve r requeste da pilot s list . AUsin g tha t wor dlist , no . Q Yeah . A Pilo t records , yes . Q Yeah . Okay . Okay . Bu t th e Op s Spe c doesn' t requir e yo u t o kee p i t i never y individual' s binder , correct? AYes , becaus e o f th e referenc e t o

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 135.63 , recordkeeping .

Q Bu t doesn' t - - th e Op s Spe c say s lis t o f pilot s maintaine db yth e certificat e holde r a t it s bas e o f operations . S o isn' t tha t a separat e lis t yo u hav e t o kee p a t th e bas e o f operations , like , fo r example , i n th e Op s Spec s - - mayb e kee p i t i n you r Op s Specs ? Pilo t list ? AI n th e Op s Spe c fo r a single-pilo t command , bu t yo u wouldn' t fo r a full-blow n operator . Q Okay . I agree . AOkay . Q Okay . S o Mustan g Ai r wa s no t th e bas e o f operations . Yo u don' t recall , yo u know , an yviolatio no f no t complyin g wit hAO0 8

- - o f no t keepin g a pilot s list , correct? ANo , I di d se e pilo t records . Q Okay . ABu t no t a list . Q Bu t no t tha t particula r one . Correc t

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Okay . An d yo u neve r requeste dit .

ANo t th e list , bu t agai nI di d reques t th e records . Q Okay . Okay . AS o I accomplishe dth e equivalent . Q D o yo u hav e an yreaso nt o believ e tha t Mr . Koo nwa s no t checke dou t o n tha t particula r day ? D o yo u recall ? ANo . A s fa r a s I know , h e wa s checke dout . Q H e wa s checke dou t tha t day . An d d o yo u recal l eve r talkin g t o Mr . Larso n afterward s i n you r capacit ywith , yo u know , bir ddoggin g Tran s Norther nabou t tha t chec k rid e o r referencin g i t a t all ? A Yes , Q Okay . An d h e confirme dtha t h e too k th e chec k - - h e di d th e chec k rid e an d everythin g turne dou t okay ? AYes . H e confirme dtha t h e di d Mr . Koon' s chec k an d onl yth e on e check .

Q 

### That' s correct . Okay
. An dtha t

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 wa s wha t probabl yende dProbabl yi n Marc hwhe n

yo u go t bac k fro mHawaii ? ANo . Actuall yI believ e i t wa s late r i n July . Q Later ? Oh , late r i n July . Okay . S o befor e the n- - okay . Well , a t al l an y time , di d yo u eve r - - i t neve r crosse dyou r min dtha t Mr . Koo nwa s no t checke dou t i n February ? ANo . MR , TIERNAN : N o furthe r questions . You r Hono r

JUDG E GOODWIN : Don e wit hthi s witness . Counsel? Oh , we'v e go t tha t inquisitiv e loo k o n hi s fac e

MR . BROWN : Yeah . Le t m e as k jus t
on e mor e t o mak e clarificatio nhere .

STEPHE NJ . STEWAR T testifie da s follow s on :

REDIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . BROWN ;



### We'v etalke dalittl ebi t abou t

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Exhibi t 4 . Th e questio nI wante dt o as k t o

clarif yyou r earlie r testimony , hav e yo u eve r see na lis t simila r t o Exhibi t 4 ? I t ma yhav e a differen t SIC , bu t a lis t simila r t o tha t a t
an ytim e a t Bus hAi r Cargo ?

N o MR . BROWN : Okay . Nothin g further .

sho t

question . MR . TIERNAN : Okay . On e mor e

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o onl yon e othe r

MR . TIERNAN : Okay . S o —yeah . STEPHE NJ . STEWAR T testifie da s follow s on ;

RECROS S EXAMINATIO N B YMR . TIERNAN :

Isn' t ther e anothe r documen t tha t keep s th e hour s o f th e pilot s an dth e SIC s t o maintai n- - t o mak e sur e the ydon' t g o ove r thei r restriction s fo r hours ?

Yes , th e recor do f fligh t an d

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 duty . Okay . An d tha t include s al l th e

pilots , correc t

Yes . o f a n operation? Ye s Q An ds o woul dtha t essentiall yb e th e equivalen t o f a pilot' s list ? ALoosel yinterpreted . Okay . MR . TIERNAN : N o furthe r question s JUDG E GOODWIN : Sir , yo u ca n ste p down . I wil l remin dyo u tha t you'r e stil l unde r oat hunti l th e conclusio no f th e hearing . As k yo u no t t o discus s you r testimon ywit hanybod yprio r t o th e conclusio n o f th e hearing .

MR . STEWART : I understand , JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Brown, MR . BROWN : You r Honor , I believ e we'v e offere dan d you'v e admitte dExhibi t C l

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 throug hCll . I f w e can . JUDG E GOODWIN : I hav e yo u admitte dC l throug h12 . Th e sanctio ntabl e wa s 12 . MR . BROWN : Oh , 12 . Than k you , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : I ca nwithdra wi t i f yo u wan t m e t o

ou t MR . TIERNAN : I wa s jus t pointin g

MR , BROWN : Than k you . You r Honor , Wit htha t w e rest .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Wha t I do , M r Tiernan , wit hth e sanction s tabl e i s it' s - - Counse l o f th e FAA , routinel yoffer s tha t i n al l case s an dI generall ytak e judicia l notic e o f th e regulatio napplicabl e t o th e tim e o f th e violatio n- - o r allege dviolation , on e o f th e reason s bein g tha t th e tabl e o f sanction s an dit s supportin g reg s ca nb e quit e thic k an d I woul dru nou t o f roo mi nm yfil e drawe r i f I pu t i t in , bu t I'l l admi t i t bu t wil l loo k

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 t o th e original . So , Mr , Tiernan , you r

pleasure . MR . TIERNAN : Okay . Venturin g int o th e awkwardnes s o f representin g a compan y you'r e th e JUDG E GOODWIN : Now , i f you'r e goin g t o testify , I' mgoin g t o hav e t o swea r yo u a s a witness .

MR . TIERNAN : Yeah . Let' s d o that , JUDG E GOODWIN ; Stan dan drais e you r righ t hand ,

(Oat hadministered ) MR , TIERNAN : Yes , You r Honor . BARTO NM . TIERNAN calle da s a witnes s o nbehal f o f th e respondent , testifie da s follow s on :

DIREC T EXAMINATIO N JUDG E GOODWIN : Stat e you r ful l
nam e fo r th e recor dan dspel l you r firs t an d las t nam e 

### Barto nM
. Tiernan , B-A-R-T-0-N
.

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Las t nam e Tiernan , T-I-E-R-N-A-N . JUDG E GOODWIN : I'l l giv e yo u som e latitude , bu t I' mno t goin g t o allo wyo u t o ge t int o a lon g AIt' s goin g t o b e ver yshort . Firs t o f al l

JUDG E GOODWIN : Famou s las t words . Mr . Brown , mak e a not e o f that .

MR . BROWN : Excep t fo r o ncros s examinatio nfo r B YMR . TIERNAN :

Wit hregar dt o Exhibi t 4 , th e pilo t list , thi s lis t I routinel ymak e ou t
ever ytim e th e circumstance s chang e wher e I ad do r tak e awa ya pilo t whic hessentiall yha s onl yhappene donc e i nFebruar ywit hMr . Koon . A t th e outset , w e ha da pilo t lis t i n complianc e wit hAO0 8 an dtha t wa s i n- - I believ e i t wa s Decembe r 200 7 an dever ytim e thing s changed , w e mad e u p tha t lis t again . W e als o - - i nconjunctio nwit htha t list , w e als o kee p th e hour s fo r complianc e wit hth e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 FAR s o f th e pilot s - - o f th e sol e PI C an dSIC . An dExhibi t 4 i s a cop yo f tha t dociimen t fo r th e dat e liste do n- - an dtha t i s a documen t o f Exhibi t 4 date d2/22/09 . I' d lik e t o mov e fo r admissio no f Exhibi t 4 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Counsel . MR . BROWN : Ma yI voi r dire ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Sure . VOI RDIR E EXAMINATIO NB YMR . BROW N Q Mr . Tiernan , Exhibi t 4 , th e - - obviousl ywha t w e hav e i s a copy . Whe nwa s th e original created? A document . 2/22/0 9 i s th e dat e o nth e

Al l right . An dar e yo u th e on e tha t create dthi s document ? AYes . Q Di dyo u us e a for mlik e a previou s on e an dsimpl ychang e th e dat e o r i s thi s - - di dyo u reall ycreat e i t o ntha t day ? AYo u know , I di di t a coupl e o f times , tw o o r thre e times , an dI don' t recall .

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# n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I mad e u p thi s for mmyself ,

Q Al l right . Bu t you r testimon yi s tha t yo u di dthi s o nFebruar y22nd , 2009 , a s show ni nExhibi t 4 , A I believ e so . Ther e - - I coul d hav e backdate di t a coupl e days , bu t yes , Q S o certainl yb yFebruar yth e 24th , 2009 , th e origina l o f thi s documen t exist . That' s you r testimony, AYes , MR , BROWN : You r Honor , m y objection s g o t o weigh t no t it s admissibility . s o n o objection .

JUDG E GOODWIN : He' s checkin g something . Yo u ma ywan t t o wait ,

MR , TIERNAN : Okay , I' msorry , JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , Let' s g o back . Th e reaso nth e Cour t stoppe di s I wasn' t sur e tha t yo u weren' t tryin g t o - - th e questio ntha t wa s pendin g wa s s o o nth e 24t h
o f February , th e documen t existed . You r prio r respons e ha dbee nyo u migh t hav e backdate dit .

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 An da t tha t point , yo u wen t throug hsom e o f

you r documents , I didn' t kno wwhethe r yo u wante dt o elaborate .

MR . TIERNAN : Yeah . Le t m e jus t check . I'l l stan db ytestimony .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Okay , A t tha t point , Mr . Brown , yo u indicate dyou r objectio n wen t t o weight ; i s tha t correct?

MR . TIERNAN : That' s correct . JUDG E GOODWIN : S o noted . Exhibi t 4 fo r identificatio nwil l b e receive di n evidenc e a s Exhibi t 4 .

(Respondent' s Exhibi t 4 admitted ) DIREC T EXAMINATIO NCONTINUE D MR . TIERNAN ; I als o hav e - - I' m wonderin g i f I - - I' mno t sur e i f I shoul d submi t th e res t o f thes e forms . Okay . S o yes , it' s bee nadmitte do r

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes . Wha t wa s i n th e MR . TIERNAN : Exhibi t 8 i s th e ta x retur nfo r Bus hAi r Carg o fo r 2 009 . Tha t wa s

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^



# n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 don e jus t recentl yan dit' s date d19/15/2010 .

Obviousl ythat' s a 10/15/2010 . Thi s i s th e 200 9 ta xretur ntha t show s th e - - a los s fo r th e compan yfo r 2009 . 200 8 wa s als o a los s an dthos e ar e th e onl ytw o ta xyear s w e hav e s o far . Agai nth e Bus hAi r Carg o i s a smal l carg o operation . I t flie s approximatel y

- - I thin k w e fle wabou t 10 5 hour s i n200 8 an d abou t 12 0 hour s approximatel yi n2009 . An dI woul dsa ythat' s no t enoug hrevenu e flight s t o produc e a profi t fo r th e company , bu t we'r e i n hope s tha t i t migh t produc e more .

An dthe nI' dlik e t o mov e fo r th e admissio no f Exhibi t 8 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Voi r dire , Mr . Brown ? MR . BROWN ; No , You r Honor . N o objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Respondent' s 8 fo r identificatio ni s receive d int o evidenc e a s Respondent' s 8 .

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 (Respondent' s Exhibi t 8 admitted ) MR . TIERNAN : An dsayin g that . You r Honor , there' s a coupl e o f point s an don e

- - firs t poin t i s tha t ther e wa s a - - mor e o f
a nallegatio ntha t th e pilot s lis t di dno t exist . O f cours e m ytestimon yi s tha t i t di d exist . Th e reaso nwh yw e di dno t ad dMr . Koo n t o th e Op s Spec s wa s w e believe dtha t AOO 8 gav e u s th e optio no f keepin g a pilot s lis t o r puttin g Mr . Koo no nth e 1 3 5 list . Tha t wa s m y belie f a t th e time .

Fou r month s wen t by . W e go t contacte db yMr . Stewart . Mr . Stewar t basicall ydidn' t tel l m e ther e wa s a violation . H e sai dword s t o th e effec t that , yo u know , wh ydi dyo u d o thi s an dI too k tha t
a s a - - a bette r d o it . W e di dit . I didn' t thin k ther e woul db e a violation .

A t tha t point , I wen t throug h- - i nfac t I didn' t thin k i t woul db e a violatio n fo r mayb e a mont ho r tw o afte r that . I
assume dMr . Stewar t wa s correc t whe nh e - - I' m

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 no t eve nsur e i f h e cite d'3 9 - - o r h e

probabl ydi dcit e it . H e ha dto . Bu t I wa s unde r th e impressio ntha t - - tha t i t coul db e a violatio ni f h e chose .

I nDecembe r Decembe r cam e aroun dan da violatio n- - o r I go t th e lette r o f inten t fo r certificat e actio n- - o r mayb e i t wa s fo r civi l penalty , I researche dit , I sai dI don' t ge t thi s an dI wen t throug hm y Op s Spec s agai nan dI though t well , here' s 'O08 , I t essentiall ysai dyo u ca nd o either/o r an dI though t I wa s good .

Ther e i s - - th e backgroun do f a smal l operato r lik e m e o f Bus hAi r Cargo , w e operat e two , 50- , 60-year-ol daircraf t i na n environmen t an dregulator yenvironmen t tha t i s designe dfo r 201 0 aircraft , basicall yJephso n turbines . It' s very , ver ydifficul t t o operat e thes e aircraf t fo r a profit . It' s - - obviousl yI d o othe r things . Thi s i s - - I' m tryin g t o mak e thi s compan ygo , bu t I hav e t o sa ytha t th e FA

Acoul dshu t u s dow na t any

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# r ^ 1 time , I mea ni t woul db e supe r easy ,

2 I hav e bee nluckyt o hav e a tea m 3 o f FAApeopl e fro mth e outse t tha t hav e 4 allowe du s t o operat e th e - - i ntoday' s 5 environmen t wit hthes e ol daircraf t an dth e 6 maintenanc e requirement s o nthem , 7 S o statin g that , it' s - - althoug h 8 I'v e bee nluckytha t I'v e ha dsom e reall ygoo d 9 peopl e t o wor k wit ha t th e FAA , it' s stil l 1 0 extremel ydifficul t t o compl ywit hth e FARs , 1 1 W e tr y- - tr you r best . Sometime s w e le t 1 2 thing s slip . Sometime s w e mak e mistakes , bu t 1 3 w e lear nan dw e continu e on , 1 4 It' s m ypositio n- - an da s I'v e 1 5 go t a lo t o f experienc e i nth e aviatio n 1 6 communit yan dit' s m yexperienc e tha t yo u ge t 1 7 alon g wit hth e FA Ao r you'r e ou t o f business , 1 8 M ypositio nha s alway s bee ndefer , defer , 1 9 defe r unti l - - yo u know , unti l it' s goin g t o 2 0 cos t yo u money , unti l i t hurt s you r botto m 2 1 line . Otherwise , yo u know , yo u bette r ge t 2 2 alon g o r you'r e ou t o f business . An dthat' s

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 basicall you r mentalit ya t Bus hAi r Carg o an d

th e peopl e I wor k wit hou t ther e an dth e mechanic s I hir e an dal l th e peopl e I wor k with , I don' t believ e ou r - - w e honestl y believ e tha t AO0 8 give s u s th e optio nt o g o eithe r way . Eve nso , i f i t doesn't , i f there' s a differen t interpretatio no f that , w e don' t believ e tha t th e amoun t i s appropriat e i nthi s situatio nbecaus e o f th e profitabilit y o f th e company .

I nanyevent , I don' t believ e - - there' s n o safet yissue s here . Ther e haven' t bee nan ysafet yissue s raised . I f there' s a violation , it' s a technica l one . I don' t thin k th e administrato r ca nargu e tha t AO0 8 i s anythin g bu t confusin g an dI believ e a technica l readin g o f tha t woul dgiv e yo u th e optio no f eithe r providin g a pilot' s lis t o r listin g you r SI C i nA039 . An dthat' s it .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Counsel , any cross ? Now , jus t befor e w e - - Mr . Tiernan ,

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# r ^

r1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 th e onl yexhibit s I hav e admitte dar e lette r

1 - - o r Exhibi t 1 , Exhibi t 2 , Exhibi t 4 whic h i s a listin g o f qualifie dcrew , an dyou r ta x return . MR . TIERNAN : Everythin g els e ha s bee nadmitte din .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o they'r e duplicates ? MR . TIERNAN : Yes , si r

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o yo u d o no t wan t t o offe r you r Exhibi t 3 , 5 , 6 , o r 7 ; i s tha t correct?

no . 3 MR . TIERNAN : 3 , yes , w e - - oh .

wa s JUDG E GOODWIN :

MR . TIERNAN ; Oh , no .

the yobjecte d to . An dthat' s fine .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , excep t ther e wa s a nobjectio nt o 3 .

MR . TIERNAN : Right . JUDG E GOODWIN : Lac k o f

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 foundation , s o - - bu t a s t o 5 , 6 , an d7 , wha t

you'r e sayin g i s they'r e duplicate s an dyou'l l
no t offe r those ; i s tha t correct?

MR . TIERNAN : That' s correct . Becaus e they'r e C8 , C6 , an dC5 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Brown, BARTO NM . TIERNAN testifie da s follow s on ;

CROS S EXAMINATIO N B YMR . BROWN : Q Mr . Tiernan , yo u indicate di nyou r openin g statemen t you'r e als o Genera l Counse l fo r you r company . Ar e yo u a license dattorne y i nth e Stat e o f Alaska ? AYes , I am . Q An dho wlon g hav e yo u bee na n attorney ? AFo r - - sinc e 1982 , i f yo u coun t a la wdegre e o r membe r o f th e Ba r

S o you'v e bee na membe r o f th e Alask a Ba r sinc e '82 ?

Sinc e '9 5 I believe .

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# r ^

r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Al l right . S o yo u wer e previousl y

a membe r o f anothe r Bar ? AWashingto nStat e Ba r Association , Q Fro m'82 ? AAgai n About , A actuall y'83 , Q I don' t kno wi f yo u hav e al l o f th e paperwor k an dI don' t - - yo u know , thin k I ca nsafel ysa ytha t w e issue dth e notic e o f propose dcivi l penalt yo nDecembe r 16th , 2009 , AUh-huh , (Affirmative ) Q D o yo u recal l that ?

Q Yes , Okay . I believ e tha t wa s on e o f th e allegation s i nth e complain t tha t wa s admitted . Al l right . I sho wyo u wha t I' m markin g a s C13 . I didn' t mea nt o thro wi t t o you . An dI' mals o givin g yo u a cop yfo r you r records . Mr . Tiernan , C13 , i s tha t you r respons e t o th e notic e o f propose dcivi l penalt yi nthi s matter ? Correct ?

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Yes . Al l right . MR . BROWN ; You r Honor , a t thi s time , I' m

goin g t o mov e t o admi t C13 . MR . TIERNAN : N o objection . JUDG E GOODWIN ; C1 3 fo r identificatio ni s receive di nevidenc e a s C1 3 .

(Complainant' s Exhibi t C1 3 admitted ) MR . BROWN : Al l right . Lookin g a t th e fourt hpag e o f C1 3 Uh-huh . (Affirmative )

th e fourt hpage . O f C13 . I s thi s C13 ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Tha t woul db e th e firs t Q An dactuall yth e thir dpag e i s tw o sided . It' s th e pag e afte r th e two-side d respons e form . AOkay . Q Okay . That' s th e ta xretur nyo u submitte da t tha t tim e fo r 2008 .
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# n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AYeah .

Q An dI believ e i t show s a profit , doe s i t not ? AUh-huh . (Affirmative ) Q S o no wyou r previou s testimon ywa s tha t 200 8 wa s a loss . AI t wa s a loss , Q Okay , Bu t thi s show s a profit , AThi s doe s sho wa profit , yes , JUDG E GOODWIN : Counsel , I' mgoin g t o - - fo r recor dpurposes , th e backsid e o f th e repl yt o notic e o f propose dcivi l penalt y whic hi s thre e aught , th e backsid e wher e there' s a signature , I' mgoin g t o mar k a s Pag e 4 , whic hmean s th e firs t pag e o f th e 200 8 ta x retur nwil l b e Pag e 5 o f 8 ,

MR . BROWN : Than k you . You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : I don' t kno wi f yo u wan t t o rephras e you r questio ns o - - becaus e you r questio nha dt o d o wit hth e 200 8 ta xretur nan dyo u wer e referrin g t o i t a s Pag e 4 an dth e Court' s marke di t a s Pag e 5 o f

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# r^ -



# r ^

r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 8 . MR . BROWN : Okay . It' s Pag e 5 , I

believ e th e testimon yi s tha t w e wer e referrin g t o th e firs t pag e o f th e ta xretur n
a t al l times .

8 .

C1 3 Q JUDG E GOODWIN : Whic hi s Pag e 5 o f

MR . BROWN : Pag e 5 o f 8 o f Exhibi t

Mr , Tiernan , i s i t fai r t o sa y tha t th e firs t tw o page s o f thi s ar e a narrative , you r - - basicall yyou r respons e t o th e notic e o f propose dcivi l penalty . AUh-huh . (Affirmative ) Q An di s i t als o

say . JUDG E GOODWIN ;

Ye s Yo u hav e t o

JUDG E GOODWIN : Remember . Q Al l right . An dagai nw e ca n compar e i t i f yo u nee dto . I s i t fai r t o sa y tha t wit hth e exceptio no f th e nam e o f th e

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 compan ybein g responden t i nth e complain t an d

bein g Bus hAi r Cargo , Inc. , i nth e notic e o f propose dcivi l penalty , the yotherwis e rea d th e same . It' s th e sam e allegations , correct? AYes . Q Great , Now , i s ther e anywher e i n C1 3 wher e yo u mentio nwha t you'v e - - what' s no wbee nintroduce da s you r Exhibi t 4 ? ANo , MR . BROWN : Nothin g further . You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : An yredirec t o f you r ow nwitness ?

MR . TIERNAN : Yeah . JUDG E GOODWIN : I wa s goin g t o sa y I hear dthroug hth e grapevin e o f a nattorne y wh o pu t himsel f o nth e stand . Th e Judg e wh o hear dth e cas e - - i t wa s th e mos t masterfu l - - becaus e th e attorne ywoul das k himsel f question s an dthe nrespond . Thi s i s a n administrativ e hearin g an dtha t woul ddra g thi s cas e ou t fo r severa l day s I' msure .

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n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 You r Honor , MR . TIERNAN : I won' t d o that .

BARTO NM . TIERNAN testifie da s follow s on :

REDIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . TIERNAN :

Lookin g a t th e thir dparagrap hi n th e lette r o f Decembe r 29 , 2009 , C13 , i t say s taxabl e incom e wa s 40,020 , lin e 30 , ta xi s 6,119 , lin e 34 , fo r a ne t incom e o f 34,017 , I t doe s no t includ e reserve s o r insurance . Approximatel y$35,00 0 fo r 2008 , Althoug h gros s incom e wa s approximatel yth e sam e i n 2009 , th e cos t du e t o repair s an dmaintenanc e ove r $20,00 0 (indiscernible-awa yfro m microphone ) e t cetera .

Althoug hth e ta xretur n technicall yshow s a profit , obviousl yreserve s wer e no t take nout , e t cetera , an dthe y weren' t calculate dint o th e ta xretur nan dI ha da mor e competen t CP Athi s yea r an dh e di d
a muc hbette r jo ba t calculatin g m y

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# r 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 profitabilit yo f th e company . S o th e questio ndi dw e operat e a t
a los s i n200 8 an dth e answe r i s yes ,

JUDG E GOODWIN : Anythin g further , sir ? An yfurthe r redirect ?

MR , TIERNAN : No , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : An yfurthe r cross ? MR , BROWN : No , You r Honor , JUDG E GOODWIN : Doe s tha t conclud e th e cas e then , Mr , Brown ? An yrebuttal ? Ar e MR , BROWN : Non e here .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Th e responden t rests ; i s tha t correct ?

MR , TIERNAN : Yes , You r Honor , JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Brown , d o yo u hav e anyrebuttal ?

MR . BROWN : Nothin g further . You r Honor , JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . S o th e cas e i s concluded . Well , le t m e pu t thi s ou t fo r you r consideration . A s Mr . Brow nknows ,

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# r ^

r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 dependin g o nth e case , I giv e yo u th e

opportunit yt o submi t briefs . Thi s cas e i s goin g t o tur no nth e interpretatio no f th e reg . D o th e tw o o f yo u wan t th e opportunit y t o brie f tha t o r d o yo u jus t wan t t o mov e ont o th e subject , Mr . Brown ?

An dI ca ntel l yo u jus t i nterm s o f thinkin g abou t it , i f yo u decid e tha t yo u wan t t o brie f it , I' mno t goin g t o mak e yo u brie f i t befor e Decembe r becaus e I' m goin g t o b e gon e i nNovembe r an dI' mno t goin g t o requir e yo u t o d o somethin g tha t I' mno t goin g b e aroun dt o se e it .

MR . BROWN : I' dlik e t o brie f it . JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . Well , I gues s tha t take s car e o f tha t one .

MR . BROWN : (Indiscernible-awa y fro mmicrophone ) lik e fiv e page s o r something ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , yo u know , I leav e i t t o you . Yo u know , I lik e t o giv e everybod yth e opportunit yt o d o so . Wh ydon' t

w e d o this . I'l l writ e thi s dow ns o I won' t

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# r ^ 1

. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 forge t it . Mr . Brown , wha t i f yo u wer e

require dt o submi t a brie f o no r befor e Decembe r 10th .

MR . BROWN : I believ e tha t i s ampl e time . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . BROWN : Appreciat e that . JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t i f I d o that , that' s goin g t o requir e Mr . Tierna nt o d o somethin g o no r befor e Christma s Day . D o yo u wan t - - ca nyo u d o somethin g o no r befor e Decembe r 24t ho r d o yo u wan t t o pus hth e whol e schedul e ou t t o January?

MR . TIERNAN : (Indiscernible-awa y fro mmicrophone ) I' dsa yyes , bu t let' s d o JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Brown , d o yo u hav e us e o r lose ?

MR . BROWN ; N o I nfac t I' m desperat e fo r anyon e wh o want s t o donate ,

JUDG E GOODWIN : Oh , okay .

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n 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . BROWN : Bu t don' t qualif y

unfortunately .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Let' s Mr . Brown , I' m

goin g t o as k yo u t o submi t you r firs t brie f o no r befor e th e 14t ho f January . Mr . Tiernan , yo u woul dthe nrespon db yth e 28t ho f January . Mr . Brown , i f yo u wan t t o d o a rebuttal , I'l l as k yo u t o d o i t o no r befor e

- - I wa s goin g t o d o i t before , bu t I kno who w th e mai l works .

MR . BROWN : Ver yslowl yu p here . JUDG E GOODWIN ; I'l l mak e i t du e th e 9th , Mr . Brown .

MR . BROWN : Okay . S o JUDG E GOODWIN : No wi f anythin g come s u p tha t interfere s wit htha t schedule , th e tw o o f yo u talk . I f yo u ca nagre e o na tim e schedule , Mr . Brown , emai l m e a norde r an dI'l l sig nit . Bu t m yvie wi f th e tw o o f yo u ca nagre e o nsomething , I' mno t goin g t o ge t int o a bi g discussio njus t - - I' mstartin g t o move , Mr . Brown , toward s th e ide a i f yo u

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W

. WASHINGTON , D.C

. 20005-370 1 www . n^alr^ ( 'oss.co m11 7 

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MR . BROWN : You r Honor , th e date s tha t I hav e ar e th e 14t hfo r m ybrief , 2 8t h fo r th e response , an dthe nan yrebuttal b y Februar y9th ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . An di f tha t become s a problem , jus t le t m e know . Yo u ge t
snowe di no r somethin g lik e that . Doe s tha t
wor k fo r you , Mr . Tiernan?

doe s MR , TIERNAN : Yes , You r Honor , i t

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , W e wil l g o of f th e record . Than k you , gentlemen ,

MR , BROWN : Than k you . You r Honor , (Of f record ) (EN D O F PROCEEDINGS )

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

. GROSS COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W

. WASHINGTON , D.C

. 20005-370 1 ww w .tiaii^ t oss.com

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. 4: 1 P.02:1 9 Q qualificatio n63: 6 qualifie d8:1 2 50:2 1 66:2 267: 9 67:12,1 4 69: 5 77: 4 87:1 4 105: 3 qualifie s 88: 7 qualif y88: 5 116: 1 qualifyin g 65:2 0 qualit y42:1 8 questio n5:4,13,1 7 5:1 8 24: 8 30: 7 36:1 9 39:1,2,2 2 42:2 048:1 5 51:1 6 52:1 7 53:3,1 0 54:1 3 57:1 067: 4 67:7,8,1 1 68: 2 72:1173:2, 275: 6 84:2 088:192: 1 92:1 298:2 0 109:19,2 0113: 2 question s 45: 7 81:1 3 91:1 293:1 2 111:2 0 quickl y63:15,1 5 quie t 11:1 2 quit e13:1 3 94:2 0

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sentence s 60:1 0 separat e5:1 4 31:2148:1150:2 1 89: 5 separate d61:1 1 separatin g 60: 9 serv e5:1 0 servic e12:17,2 0 28:1 5 se t 87: 8 severalfol d28:1 2 sever e71:1 1 shee t 87:1 1 shoo t 117: 1 shor t 86: 7 96: 5 sho t 92:1 0 sho w 7: 234:1 5 40:1 0107:1 7 109: 9 showe d25: 245:10

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Nea lR
. Gros s & Co ,

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Thi s i s t o certif ytha t th e foregoin g transcrip t i nth e matte r of : Bus hAi r Carg o
Befor e Richar dGoodwin , AL J

Dat e Octobe r 19 , 201 0

Place ; Anchorage , Alask a

represent s th e ful l an dcomplet e proceeding s o f th e aforementione dmatter , a s reporte dan dreduce dt o typewriting . 

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(202 ) 234-443 3 

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