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95–310 2015

THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL POLICE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE 

ADMINISTRATION 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

MAY 20, 2015 

Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration 

( 

Available on the Internet: 

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/house/administration/index.html 


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COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION 

CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan, Chairman 

GREGG HARPER, Mississippi 

RICHARD NUGENT, Florida 

RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois 

BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia 

MARK WALKER, North Carolina 

ROBERT A. BRADY, Pennsylvania 

Ranking Minority Member 

ZOE LOFGREN, California 

JUAN VARGAS, California 

PROFESSIONAL STAFF

SEAN MORAN, Staff Director 

KYLE ANDERSON, Minority Staff Director 


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UNITED STATES CAPITOL POLICE 

WEDNESDAY, MAY 20, 2015 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 2:10 p.m., in Room 

1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Candice S. Miller 

[chairman of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Miller, Harper, Nugent, Davis, Walker, 

Brady, Lofgren, and Vargas. 

Staff Present: Sean Moran, Staff Director; John Clocker, Deputy 

Staff Director; Bob Sensenbrenner, Deputy General Counsel; John 

L. Dickhaus, Legislative Clerk; Erin Sayago McCracken, Communications Director; Reynold Schweikhardt, Director of Technology 

Policy; Brad Walvort, Professional Staff; Kyle Anderson, Minority 

Staff Director; Matt Pinkus, Minority Senior Policy Advisor; Khalil 

Abboud, Minority Deputy Staff Director/Director of Legislative Operations; Mike Harrison, Minority Chief Counsel; and Eddie 

Flaherty, Minority Chief Clerk. 

The CHAIRMAN. Even though the House has just completed a vote 

and we are expecting maybe a couple of other members here, I 

think, in the interest of time, I will start the hearing. 

I would call to order the Committee on House Administration for 

today’s hearing on the United States Capitol Police. The hearing 

record will remain open for 5 legislative days so that members may 

submit any materials that they wish to be included. 

A quorum is present, so we might proceed. 

I am just going to tell you before we start—I just mentioned this 

to the ranking member as we were walking down the hall here together after votes—he may have had one of his finest moments just 

a moment ago because he spoke for the entire Congress and the entire country and perhaps the entire world so eloquently about what 

happened with the train crash in your area and how well the first 

responders, how quickly they responded. It is interesting. Here we 

are going to talk about the Capitol Police, but it was a national 

tragedy. I just mentioned to him, one of our State senators in 

Michigan, her daughter, 39-years-old, was one of the victims that 

perished. So it went around the country. 

But you spoke so very, very well, and I just want to tell you how 

much I appreciated everything that you said there very, very much. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you. 

Thank you, Madam Chair. 

The CHAIRMAN. I would also like to take a moment to introduce 

and to welcome, before we start our hearing here, our newest memVerDate Sep 11 2014 07:27 Jul 08, 2015 Jkt 095310 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A310.XXX A310

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ber to the House Administration Committee, that is Mark Walker 

who represents the Sixth District in North Carolina. He is in his 

first term here in Congress. He came very highly recommended to 

us, that he had an interest in this Committee, and we are delighted 

that he is here. 

His background is, I think, going to be very much an asset to our 

Committee. He previously served his community as a pastor, actually, in Greensboro, North Carolina, worked in a small business in 

the private sector. Both of those attributes are going to be very 

much needed here, so we certainly appreciate that. We are looking 

forward to putting him to work here and also looking forward to 

his input on our Committee. 

We are meeting here today to discuss the United States Capitol 

Police. This law enforcement agency is unique really, unique maybe 

in the world, certainly, probably not what most would consider a 

typical community police force, and that is because the mission of 

the Capitol Police is to protect and to serve the United States Capitol, which, of course, is the citadel of democracy of the world. 

There is no denying the fact that this building and this institution are very dramatic symbols of our free society, which is based 

on self-government. This also makes the Capitol campus and this 

institution a target of those who hate our freedoms and hate our 

values here in America. In fact, some say that because of this, perhaps we need even greater restrictions on access to the Capitol 

campus here. Obviously, that would be totally counter to what this 

Nation stands for. 

One of the many important rights secured on behalf of the American people and the First Amendment in our Constitution is the 

right to redress their grievances before their government. The 

American people must have access to those that they send to the 

Capitol to represent their interests, and they must also have access 

to the grounds of our Capitol Building to also exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right to peaceably assemble. 

Since Congress created the U.S. Capitol Police back in 1828, they 

have worked very hard to fulfill this dual mission of safety and accessibility. Every Member of Congress, the staff of the Capitol here 

in the office buildings, and the American people as a whole understand that this is no small task that we have missioned them with. 

We commend and we have the utmost respect for the many men 

and women who uphold their sworn duty to act as protectors and 

defenders of the law day in and day out, 24/7. Each officer has 

come here willingly answering the call to serve and to protect. The 

Capitol Police law enforcement agency is just not a few individuals; 

they are many who serve as one to meet their mission in protecting 

our complex. 

So we hold this hearing today as part of our Committee’s jurisdiction to review the safety and the security of the Capitol and its 

facilities. The safety of each Member of Congress, all the staff, and 

most importantly of course, the security and the safety of the millions of Americans who visit each and every year is important. 

Our Committee works very closely with the Capitol Police on a 

daily basis to ensure that they have the tools, the authority, and 

the support that they need to keep our Capitol safe and secure for 

everyone. The security needs of the Capitol complex are always at 


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the forefront of our minds, because we all understand the threats. 

There is a constant need to review security protocols; make certain 

those protocols are thoughtfully developed; and ensure that the 

protocols are reviewed, tested, and deployed against the threats. 

The importance of this process has not diminished over the 

years. In fact, new and verifiable threats have only increased, and 

we must work together to adapt. As with any law enforcement organization, the responsibility for meeting the mission begins and 

ends at the top. In this case, with the Chief of Police, Kim Dine. 

While our Committee meets on a regular basis to discuss the security status of our Capitol and all of its inhabitants with the Capitol 

Police leadership, we felt it was very timely to have a general oversight hearing to hear directly from the Chief of the Capitol Police 

about his force. 

Obviously, we all recognize, Chief, that there are very sensitive 

aspects about the operations and the capabilities of the Capitol Police that we can probably not discuss in an open forum, but it is 

important to note, I think, as well, that most often threats are discovered and they are investigated and they are resolved without 

them ever becoming public. And often they do that almost always 

really in cooperation with other agencies. 

Due to the inherent professionalism of the force, that is a type 

of flawless response that we have come to expect from the U.S. 

Capitol Police. But, certainly, as some of the recent events—the 

gyrocopter incident brings these threats to the forefront. Many 

have questioned how the gyrocopter was actually able to fly all the 

way to the front lawn of the Capitol. 

However, I will note this: Actually protecting the restricted airspace over Washington, D.C., is not the mission of the Capitol Police. That falls to other agencies. In fact, I can remember, I think 

it was during President Reagan’s funeral when a former Governor 

of Kentucky, his State aircraft came into restricted airspace. A 

pilot error, but the Air Force actually scrambled their jets, I think, 

on that day. 

I do remember the Capitol Police doing their duty to evacuate 

the Capitol campus flawlessly. Again, in that instance, the job of 

the Capitol Police was not to so much eliminate the air threat in 

the restricted airspace but to protect those who work there or are 

visiting the Capitol campus. 

I would say this, I had a briefing after that, many of us did, and 

I told the Chief then that I thought the Capitol Police performed 

very well once the gyrocopter landed, almost flawlessly, really. 

However, I would also say that there were some aspects of the 

event, which I am going to be looking forward to hearing from the 

Chief on, which we would like to talk a bit about, about when did 

the Capitol Police know that the individual was heading for the 

Capitol; and if we had some heads up, how would that affect the 

response then; and how does it affect the response going forward. 

I would also like to note that in that incident and others, I have 

taken issue with the lack of communication. During that incident, 

actually the best source of information that I had and I think many 

Members had was watching cable TV, and actually looking at some 

of the different news channels. So I think the police work was very 

impressive, but the communications could be improved. That is an 


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area that we want to have a bit of oversight on. Although, again, 

I have raised these concerns with the Chief, and it does appear to 

be that the communication protocols have already been improved. 

Also, there have been three separate incidents that perhaps normally you wouldn’t talk about publicly, but they have been in all 

of media outlets so it is quite known, where officers have left their 

assigned firearms unattended. These are very serious breaches, I 

think, that alarm all of us, quite frankly. When you are in an open 

and public environment with literally millions of visitors each and 

every year, securing your weapon is of primary importance. 

So I understand, again, that these incidents are being investigated and, again, normally wouldn’t be talked about openly. But 

certainly, at this point, I hope to hear a bit about how they are 

being handled, whether the Capitol Police has the training and the 

resources that it needs, and what steps are being taken to ensure 

that these kinds of serious incidents are not repeated. 

The purpose of the hearing is to examine the current operations 

and the responses taken by the Capitol Police, particularly those 

leadership decisions which have an effect on training, readiness, 

and on the overall morale of the force of the United States Capitol 

Police. 

I would say this, we certainly all understand that now is a particularly challenging time for law enforcement across the entire 

country—certainly not just here, but across the entire country. We 

are also very aware that the Capitol Police operate in sort of an 

asymmetrical environment. The purpose of this hearing is certainly 

not to second-guess every single action that has been taken in pursuit of security. However, our Committee does have the oversight 

responsibility for conducting a hearing such as this, and we intend 

to carry out our responsibilities. 

Of course, nearly all of the events that have occurred in the public view are met with textbook responses that display, again, the 

standard of conduct, the professionalism that Congress expects of 

its law enforcement agency and is demanded by the American people as well. We would ask the Chief to provide us as much information as possible in an open setting about these incidents, such as 

what was learned; training improvements; where the training 

proves successful; in the cases of the unintended firearms, what 

kinds of corrective actions has been taken, again, that you could 

discuss openly; and, lastly but likely most importantly, what your 

plan is for the department to move forward. I think we don’t want 

to be spending our time looking in the rearview mirror. We want 

to look forward as much as possible, always. 

One of the questions—and I mentioned this to the Chief before 

we started—that I am going to want to bring up and perhaps more 

of a discussion amongst even the members here is exploring how 

the chain of command is structured, because right now the Chief 

of Police reports to the Capitol Police Board, which is made up of 

the Sergeant at Arms in the House, the Sergeant at Arms in the 

Senate, and the Architect of the Capitol. This was a police board 

that was comprised back in the 1800s, and it just seems like it 

would be a timely thing for us, perhaps, to discuss whether or not 

this reporting structure complicates performing the duties that we 


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have an expectation of the Capitol Police and its Chief and if it is 

the best management structure. 

Then, finally, I would ask the Chief to explain again the leadership steps that he has taken and is taking to guide the law enforcement agency forward. 

So I am very hopeful that the result of this hearing will be that 

we all gain a better understanding of the challenges faced by the 

Capitol Police; areas where some of the changes or improvements 

can be made; and, finally, how this Committee can assist, which is 

what we really want to do, how we can assist the United States 

Capitol Police in performing their mission because we all share the 

common goal of protecting the United States Capitol, the entire 

campus here, as I say, not just the Members or the staff but, most 

importantly, the American people, the millions of American people 

that visit each and every day. 

So I certainly thank the Chief for his appearance before our 

Committee today. 

I would now like to recognize my colleague, the gentleman from 

Pennsylvania, Mr. Brady. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

I join my friend, Chairman Miller, in welcoming the Chief to this 

hearing. We wish we saw you more often although under different 

circumstances. 

The congressional community and the American public need to 

be sure that they are safe in the United States Capitol and the surrounding areas. I believe that strong oversight and policy direction 

of vital elements of building and, unfortunately, in some instances, 

rebuilding that trust. 

The Committee on House Administration, the other legislative 

and oversight committees of the House, and Senate need to be sure 

that we are not an afterthought in the process of managing this department. If something potentially embarrassing happens which reflects on the Capitol Police, risks the public safety, or is likely to 

become publicly known, run—don’t walk—to this committee. We 

don’t want to find out from local Hill newspapers, tweets from journalists, or through the rumor mill. 

Recent incidents with officers losing their weapons, the 

gyrocopter landing on the west front lawn, the tragic murders of 

the Navy Yard, it is my understanding that several of these issues 

are still under investigation and subject to the legal process. But 

none of that reduces the committee’s obligation to know the facts 

and the department’s obligation to be forthcoming. 

I have been and continue to be unwavering in my support of the 

Capitol Police. Chairman Miller and I have many conversations on 

the USCP anniversary. Every issue we are in complete agreement. 

I think I can safely say that we both want to do everything and 

anything possible to ensure that you and the force is successful. 

On a daily business, rank-and-file officers may be called upon to 

put their lives on the line to protect visitors, members, and staff. 

As the son of a police officer, I am intimately aware of that tremendous burden and commitment it requires. But, quite frankly, I have 

been deeply troubled by several recent occurrences that have forced 

me to question the leadership of the force. 


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I look forward to your testimony, and I look forward to learning 

how you plan to continue to strive to be the leader that they deserve. 

Thank you, Madam Chair. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank the gentleman. 

Are there any other members that wish to be recognized for an 

opening statement? 

Chair recognizes Mr. Harper. 

Mr. HARPER. Thank you, Chairman Miller. 

And thank you, Chief Dine, for being here today and offering testimony to the committee. 

There have been media reports on the rarity of Capitol Police 

Chief appearing before the committee that is, in fact, charged with 

oversight of the force. I don’t think that it should be unusual and 

hope that this may be the start of a new tradition of frequent appearances by you and your successors. 

I appreciate your service as well as that of each and every one 

of the officers under your command. And I don’t consider it my job 

to criticize you or others in your command structure just when 

things go wrong. I think this committee can and should be as much 

a part of your support network as the Capitol Police are a supporting agency of the U.S. Congress. 

However, that requires open and honest communication between 

us. And while I recognize the often sensitive nature of your work 

in terms of security, I also recognize that we are both public servants and have responsibility to submit ourselves to public scrutiny 

from time to time. Again, I appreciate your appearance today, and 

I look forward to hearing your testimony. 

And I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank the gentleman. 

Other members? 

Mr. Vargas. 

Mr. VARGAS. I, too, want to thank you, Madam Chair, for having 

this hearing. 

I also want to thank the Chief. I sat on the San Diego City Council. We had responsibility for the city police there. I was also in the 

State Assembly and the State Senate. And I have to say, the professionalism here has been fantastic. 

I, in particular, want to call out Sergeant Stephen Merle. We 

have had a couple issues with people that have mobility issues in 

my district that have come to the Capitol, and he has been fantastic. One lady in particular asked me if I would pass along her 

thanks to him. Again, his name is Sergeant Stephen Merle. 

And, again, I thank you for this hearing. And, again, my experiences have been very, very positive, and I appreciate it again. 

Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Nugent from Florida. 

Mr. NUGENT. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

And I appreciate, Ranking Member, your support of the Capitol 

Police and Chief Dine. 

Listen, after 38 years of being in law enforcement that I have experience in and being a chief administrator, I know it can be a 


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thankless job from time to time. But, you know, the pressures do 

exist. 

And one of the things I think that this committee would like to 

see—or at least I would like to see—is more transparency with the 

agency and us. And it doesn’t always have to be in a formal setting 

such as this. It can be on a one-on-one setting with any one of us 

as this goes forward. 

Obviously, we have great concerns, with reference to what has 

been in the media as it relates to officers leaving their weapons in 

areas that they shouldn’t, in the gyrocopter landing. I don’t think 

we need to go through every issue at this point in my comments. 

But I will tell you that we need to have a better understanding 

of the Capitol Police. It is probably the most unique law enforcement agency in the Nation that I am aware of because your mission is really about protecting this campus and all of us but, as the 

chairman had mentioned, all the citizens that come here on a daily 

basis to view democracy in action. 

And yours is a job that not many people could do. And I will tell 

you, you are only as good as the folks that surround you and your 

upper administration. But also the men and women that daily put 

on those uniforms and the vest to protect us, without them, this 

doesn’t happen and we don’t have an open setting like this. And 

so I want to make sure that we are doing everything to support you 

but also support the men and women of this agency. 

And I think sometimes that gets lost, that there are actually people that kiss their husbands or wives goodbye in the morning and 

not knowing if they are going to come back tonight. And I want to 

make sure that we are doing everything in our power that they 

have a great working environment. I am sure you agree with that. 

So we want to hear what steps you are going to do to remedy 

some of the issues that have been brought up by members here 

today and that you are going to hear about later as we move forward. It is very important that we feel assured that—you are the 

chief executive officer; you are the Chief of Police—that you have 

a good handle on it and what you are going to do to remedy it. 

You know, obviously, we talk to your folks on a regular basis. 

And we want to make sure that their morale is high and that they 

want to stay here because we have a big investment in them. And 

so I want to hear from you what exactly, what specific ideas you 

have to put in place to make sure that this elite force stays elite, 

has the training, and the backing of its administration as we move 

forward. 

And Madam Chair, I yield back. Thank you very much. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank the gentleman. 

Other members? 

If not, let me formally introduce our one witness here today. Kim 

Dine is the eighth Chief of the United States Capitol Police and 

has served in this position since December of 2012. The Chief has 

had a distinguished career in law enforcement for the last 39 years. 

He began his career with the Metropolitan Police Department in 

Washington, D.C., where he was eventually appointed assistant 

chief of police for the department. 

In 2002, he became the chief of police of the Frederick, Maryland, 

police department and served there for 10 years. As Chief of the 


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U.S. Capitol Police, Chief Dine is responsible for commanding a 

force of nearly 2,000 sworn-in civilian personnel, who are very dedicated to provide comprehensive law enforcement security and protective operation services to the U.S. Congress, Members, staff, and 

millions of annual visitors in the surrounding complex. 

So, with that, Chief, we certainly appreciate you joining us today, 

and we look forward to your comments. There is normally a 5- 

minute period, but you take what you need and go through it. 

Thank you. 

STATEMENT OF KIM DINE, CHIEF OF POLICE, UNITED STATES 

CAPITOL POLICE 

Chief DINE. Thank you, Chairman Miller. 

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for the opportunity to 

appear before the Committee on House Administration to discuss 

the leadership of the United States Capitol Police. I am joined here 

today by the Department’s Chief of Operations, Assistant Chief 

Matthew Verderosa, and the Department’s Chief Administrative 

Officer, Mr. Richard Braddock, as well as some members of my Executive Management Team. 

This afternoon, I would like to provide the Committee with a 

brief summary of my first 21⁄2 years leading the USCP and lay out 

to you my short- and long-term vision in leadership priorities for 

the Department. First, however, I would like to thank the Committee for its sustained and unwavering support for the United 

States Capitol Police. I am truly grateful for the support of the 

Congress and that of the Capitol Police Board. 

I would also be remiss if I did not recognize the brave women 

and men of the United States Capitol Police. Each and every day 

they place themselves in harm’s way to ensure that this great institution can carry out its critical role in legislating and providing 

one-third of the infrastructure for our great democracy. I firmly believe that the women and men of the USCP continually demonstrate professionalism, pride, and effectiveness in meeting the 

mission requirements for both routine operations and critical incident response and do so proficiently. 

In December 2012, I was appointed by the Capitol Police Board 

to serve as the Chief of Police for the United States Capitol Police. 

Within the first 2 months on the job, I had the pleasure of leading 

the Department during the 57th Inauguration of the President of 

the United States. Since then, I have also overseen numerous State 

of the Union activities, concerts, National Peace Officers’ Memorial 

services, Joint Meetings of the U.S. Congress, visits from heads of 

State, dignitaries, and VIPs, CODELS, and demonstrations. 

I have also overseen unique situations during my tenure, such as 

the African Summit, which saw 50 heads of state visit the Capitol; 

ricin incidents in our mail facilities; operational activities on the 

Capitol Complex as a result of the Navy Yard shooting; the October 

3, 2013, vehicular shooting incident on Capitol Hill; the Convert for 

Valor; the impacts of demonstrations resulting from the Ferguson, 

Missouri, police activity; two suicides on Capitol Grounds within 

the last 2 years; and, most recently, the National Capital Region 

event with the gyrocopter. 


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However, response operations have not been the only focus of my 

leadership. In February 2014, the Department fully implemented 

its new digitally encrypted radio system without issues or communications service interruptions. In 2014, the Department also successfully achieved reaccreditation from the Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies, CALEA, earning the gold 

standard in public safety accreditation. 

Further, we have continued our efforts to resolve recommendations provided by the United States Capitol Police Inspector General designed to improve our internal controls and management 

practices, including our controls over the inventory of weapons and 

ammunition. 

I unequivocally understand the concerns regarding the recent 

issues related to the mishandling of weapons by some of our officers. There are no excuses for these mistakes. 

The Department takes these incidents very seriously, and we will 

rely on our disciplinary process to provide the framework for accountability. USCP employees are held to a very high standard in 

terms of conduct and discipline. The USCP has a team of highly 

experienced, well-trained, professional investigators whose sole job 

function is to investigate internal conduct issues. This is done by 

conducting thorough, defendable, legally sufficient investigations 

into misconduct as well as other employee-related matters. 

The first offense for a mishandled weapon typically receives a 5- 

or more day suspension without pay. I am considering increasing 

the minimum penalty to up to a 30-day suspension, all the way to 

termination for a first offense, and potential termination for any 

subsequent offense. 

This is not offered in response to these incidents but rather my 

belief that any high liability type of violation warrants strict disciplinary action. In reference to the mishandled weapons cases that 

have been publicized, it should be pointed out that employees are 

trained on the safe handling of firearms. Currently, basic training 

includes several weeks of weapons training, discussions on safe 

handling of weapons, and instructions on what to do in situations 

in which an employee uses the restroom. 

That said, I have directed the implementation of new elements 

to our weapons safety training to reinforce the proper handling of 

weapons. This training will also be delivered biannually in person 

during weapons re-qualification as well as annually online. 

All of the Department’s operational activities and the management initiatives involve our most precious resource, which is our 

people. 

No one cares more about our people than I do. My goal has been 

and continues to be to create a work environment to provide the 

tools and training that our workforce needs to be successful in a 

well-managed and efficient manner. Our relationships with our 

labor unions are a key part of that goal. During my tenure, we successfully negotiated and ratified a new contract with the Teamsters, which is the labor union representing our covered civilian 

workforce. Additionally, I meet regularly with members of the Fraternal Order of Police Executive Board on issues of importance to 

our sworn workforce. We have also initiated negotiations with the 

FOP on a new contract, which will provide a labor management 


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framework for our covered sworn workforce. These negotiations are 

ongoing. 

I would now like to briefly lay out for you my focus as we go forward. Before I do, I must acknowledge that I realize that I have 

not fully developed a relationship with you and others in leadership 

that I have needed to, in order to be a completely effective leader. 

I came into the Department facing many imminent operational activities and did not appropriately return my focus to establishing 

myself as the Chief of Police with the congressional community. I 

would like you to know that I am committed to making the necessary effort to meet your expectations and to provide better communication with all of our oversight committees and congressional 

leadership. 

As you know, on May 1, 2015, I appointed Matthew Verderosa 

as the Chief of Operations and Assistant Chief of Police after a 30- 

year career in federal law enforcement. He has served in many 

operational and administrative roles in the Department, which I 

believe make him uniquely qualified to help me and my Chief Administrative Officer, Mr. Richard Braddock, lead the Department. 

In an effort to provide greater focus to our efforts, I have laid out 

a plan for achieving many necessary management activities over 

the next several months. I will be focused on developing the necessary relationships with the Department’s stakeholders to be the 

most effective Chief that I can be. 

I plan to enhance communications with our workforce and ensure 

the most efficient utilization of overtime. I plan to continue training for onboard sworn personnel for the remainder of Fiscal Year 

2015. I plan to complete promotions for the ranks of Deputy Chief, 

Inspector, and Captain and continue to enhance the promotional 

process for the ranks of Lieutenant and Sergeant, which will be administered in late 2015 or early 2016. 

I will oversee the deployment of the Department’s new strategic 

plan in the coming weeks, which will provide greater focus for the 

USCP’s efforts and allow our workforce to more clearly understand 

their role in achieving our mission responsibilities. Finally, I plan 

to continue to work with the FOP to address the remaining issues 

related to contract negotiations. 

My long-term focus over the next several years includes a plan 

to focus the Department’s energy in several areas which tie to our 

new strategic plan, which includes smart policing; deploying more 

effective law enforcement services through collaboration, adaptability, and innovation; and focusing on workforce efficiency and effectiveness through improved communications. 

To successfully achieve these goals, I am committed to taking the 

leadership actions necessary to build a management team who 

shares my vision and who will actively engage all levels of the 

workforce. Given the huge responsibilities of this Department and 

our entire workforce, I realize that the Department’s failure is not 

an option. I will continue to evolve my leadership style to ensure 

our success with meeting the mission, the needs of the workforce, 

and this community. 


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Once again, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 

today. I would be very happy to answer any questions the Committee may have at this time. 

[The statement of Chief Dine follows:] 


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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Chief. I appreciate that. 

I think I will just start off about the unattended firearms, which 

was probably, if anything, one of the bigger concerns since I have 

been here on the Hill. You were just outlining what you would normally do in a case like that. I think you said 5-days suspension, 

something like that. I am sure that depends on the personnel 

record of that particular individual, if there had been incidents in 

the past or not, et cetera. 

But it is also my understanding that some of these incidents happened with members of the force that were on sort of special detail 

with leadership. Do you give that consideration, or what do you do 

in a case like that? 

Chief Dine. Yes, ma’am. First of all, obviously, each and every 

one of those cases is or will be or is in the process of being fully 

investigated. That is step one. Then we have a very good disciplinary process, which actually prior to promoting Assistant Chief 

Verderosa, I had asked him to look at reengineering our disciplinary process to make sure it was effective and efficient and as fast 

moving as possible. 

So one of the changes, while we had an excellent system, I found 

that it was somewhat fragmented. And for an agency our size, of 

the importance in terms of the disciplinary process, I believe that 

a centralized disciplinary process is necessary. So Assistant Chief 

Verderosa has put together a process which essentially centralizes 

the review process, which I think is better for all of the members 

of the agency and makes for a better system. 

That being said, the process includes, as you mentioned, looking 

at the Douglas Factors, which come out of the Douglas v. Veterans 

Administration case, as you may be aware. Our collective bargaining agreement ensures that at least four of those are considered, which include the member’s record, whether the act was willful or, you know, on purpose or not, and those kinds of things. 

So the member’s record is taken into consideration, how long 

they have been on the department, their disciplinary record, what 

kind of act took place, its impact on the agency’s ability to perform 

its mission and those kind of things, and then punishment is given 

out. And we have been very diligent in both investigating not only 

these matters but other matters and meting out appropriate punishment. 

The CHAIRMAN. You know, just reading these media reports, obviously, we are all biological human beings, so everyone has to go 

to the bathroom. Some of these incidents happened in a bathroom. 

So I don’t know, and maybe this isn’t the right question, but do you 

have a lockbox? 

Chief DINE. Yes, ma’am. 

The CHAIRMAN. That happens, whether it is in a bathroom or 

wherever they are, that they have to take off their firearm for some 

short period of time and how it is accounted for safely? 

Chief DINE. And that is a great question. We do provide 

lockboxes to our officers. Those are generally kept in their homes. 

There are lockboxes around in various office locations. So, if someone has time, they may have the ability to go secure their weapon 

before they go to the bathroom. But as I mentioned in my opening 


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testimony, we are now providing additional training on what to do 

when you have to go to the bathroom. 

Obviously, while these acts were not done on purpose, they are 

unacceptable. One cannot leave your weapon anywhere. It has to 

be secured at all times. And so those actually will be dealt with 

firmly and effectively. But we have enhanced the training. We have 

now made that additional training as part of our biannual certification process, and we are creating online training that everyone 

will go through once a year as well. So we have enhanced and reinforced the whole discussion of weapons safety because that is extremely critical, obviously. 

The CHAIRMAN. Okay. My second question then would be about 

the gyrocopter incident. Again, you and I have talked about this. 

We have had a brief about it. We have talked about it at length. 

But as I continue to sort of contemplate what could have happened, 

what it meant, et cetera, what it could mean in the future, et 

cetera, I guess I do have a couple of questions. 

In regards to the officers that actually did respond, as I said in 

my opinion, from a layman, I don’t know, I don’t understand your 

business, but it certainly looked as though the Capitol Police that 

responded did everything they were supposed to do flawlessly once 

the gyrocopter landed. So I am wondering how much advance notice that the Capitol Police had, again, understanding that the restricted airspace is not your responsibility? I am not trying to 

throw some other agency under the bus, but I would like to know, 

to the extent that you can enlighten us, how much advance notice 

the Capitol Police had that this gyrocopter was coming, if boots on 

the ground understood that it was coming, or what exactly happened there in the critical moments before this gyrocopter did land. 

Thank God it was nobody that really meant us harm, but who 

knows. 

Chief DINE. Yes, ma’am. 

The CHAIRMAN. As you know, Chief, I also serve as the vice chair 

of the Homeland Security Committee. So, from a homeland security 

standpoint, put my other hat on here for a moment, what in the 

world? The after-action reports, perhaps, what you did with the 

men and women that did respond. 

Chief DINE. Yes, ma’am. A lot of great questions right there. And 

let me first say from the outset, let me touch on the notification 

process, so I can tell you once again, we fixed that that the next 

day working with Chief Verderosa. We directed that notifications 

be given out immediately. So we apologize for that. That is not acceptable for you to find out—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Actually, that was not my question. I appreciate 

the candidness. I am talking about how much notification the Capitol Police had about the gyrocopter coming. 

Chief DINE. Yes, ma’am. The notification of the gyrocopter. That 

day, at, I believe, 12:59 hours we received an email from someone 

claiming to be a reporter asking questions; did we have any knowledge about a gyrocopter landing? The information did not provide 

a time or date or indicate that landing was imminent or anything 

like that. It was more about, are you aware that this might be happening, and does the person have permission to do that? 


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That email went to our Public Information Officer, Lieutenant 

Kimberly Schneider, who sent it to our Investigations Division. 

About a minute later, we got a call in our Command Center apparently from the same individual asking generic type questions, does 

somebody have a permit to land? Again, did not give a date or time 

or indicate that landing was imminent. 

That information was also forwarded then to our Investigations 

Division. As those things began to be looked into, minutes later, 

frankly, the gyrocopter landed. Now, while on the West Front, 

about a minute before it landed, one of our officers was approached 

by someone who was apparently a reporter, who knew that the 

gyrocopter was going to be landing. And they asked the officer: Are 

you aware of anybody, any airspace issues, anybody landing? I forget the exact language. And the officer didn’t know anything about 

it. 

He asked another officer. They went over the air. They made 

some notifications. Essentially, at that time, they observed the 

gyrocopter over the Grant Statue and landing on the West Front. 

So there was about a 20-, 25-minute time lapse from the time we 

got these generic pieces of information. And, as you know, we get 

hundreds and hundreds of calls every day and emails about different permits, about different activities. So—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Now I understand. 

The last thing I will say, because I note that everybody else 

wants to ask a question, it is my understanding you did get that 

email about a half an hour before the gyrocopter landed, along with 

the Web site for a live stream that this guy was live-streaming his 

flight. So maybe somebody else wants to follow up on that, but it 

would seem as though somebody would tune in. 

Chief DINE. Well, and we attempted to tune in. We had no luck 

immediately. We ultimately did—that investigation continued, 

which allowed us—and I would like to echo your praise of the officers’ actions on the scene. Immediately, I think the officers acted 

properly, heroically, swiftly, and efficiently. And the continued investigation actually allowed us to determine what we were dealing 

with because, as the K-9 officers swept the gyrocopter and then our 

EOD folks approached to continue to clear it, we were pulling up 

information about the person, who he was, and what kind of potential threat he was or was not. 

So that investigative effort kind of aided our whole overall effort 

and fit into our overall response. As you mentioned, it is not our 

role to patrol the airspace. That is a DOD NORAD responsibility, 

but we work very closely with them. We are working with the Department of Homeland Security on an after-action report from a 

larger sense. We are also doing an internal one as well. 

And, actually, during Police Week last week, I had an opportunity to speak with Secretary Johnson about the matter, actually 

twice, which I was pleased to be able to do that. 

The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Thank you, Chief. 

The chair recognizes my ranking member. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Chief, far be it for me to sit here and make you feel uncomfortable or even to question you. But we are friendlies here. We are 

not the enemy here. My dad was in the police force. Mr. Nugent 


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has many, many years of experience in law enforcement. I have 

even talked with him every day. We are, you know, a committee 

to oversight you. This is the first time I met you. 

Chief Morse was a friend. He wasn’t—we weren’t an oversight 

committee; he was a friendly toward us. Walk by, anytime you 

walk by the office, pop in. How are you? How are you doing? That 

is good relationships. You know Philadelphia is known for 

cheesesteaks. We have the biggest cheesesteak restaurant in the 

city, the most famous nationwide, and they collect patches. And he 

wanted a patch from Capitol Police. So I went to Chief Morse, I 

said: You know, I would like to get a patch. He said: No, I will go 

down and bring it to them. I want to have that great relationship 

and good PR. And he did that, you know. 

And, again, we don’t want to be reactive. We want to act if there 

is a problem, there is an issue, your contract. I deal with your officers, with your unions all the time. You meet with them a lot. Meet 

with us a lot. Walk by our office and say hello. I know you are 

busy, but we are busy too. We are not going to not say hello to you, 

you know. And that is my issue. That is my problem. 

And I know you could be overwhelmed, but I do appreciate that, 

you know. But if you could get a little more closer to us, we want 

to get closer to you. I have been involved in more contracts than 

anybody you know, including two of yours previously, you know. I 

do a lot of that. And, you know, in the city of Philadelphia. When 

there is always a problem, you know, I am the one they go to 

many, many times. 

We are ready to help you. We have had discussions, me and the 

chairman, all the time, you know. And we a little bit wonder why 

haven’t we got like more involved. We are not here to criticize you. 

I can’t do your job. You could probably do mine, but I can’t do 

yours. Or you can learn mine quickly enough. It is no rocket 

science to be a Congressman. It is a little tough to be a police officer. 

We want to be helpful to you. And I really wish that you would 

take that into consideration. No request, nothing. Just, you know, 

if you have requested, it certainly would be on your part for us because we are supposed to be here to help you. And I wish you 

would take that consideration and get a little more friendly with 

all of us. 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. BRADY. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Chief DINE. I can guarantee I will do that, and I appreciate your 

comments. 

The CHAIRMAN. Chair recognizes Mr. HARPER. 

Mr. HARPER. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Chief Dine, you said there were two notifications that went into 

Capitol Police prior to the landing of the gyrocopter. One went into 

the command center and the other went to the Public Information 

Officers. Is that correct? 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HARPER. So the times of each of those, again, in advance of 

the landing? 

Chief DINE. I believe one was 12:59 and one was actually a 

minute later, where they made contact with us. It wasn’t really— 


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I don’t know that I would classify it as a notification. It was more 

of a question, were we aware of anything like this happening. But 

I think 12:59 and 1:00. 

Mr. HARPER. Then the landing was at 1:23, as I understand, 

right? 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HARPER. So were you notified yourself personally before it 

landed based upon either of those contacts? 

Chief DINE. I don’t believe I was notified before it landed. 

Mr. HARPER. Okay. Were there any weapons in place on behalf 

of the Capitol Police to protect the Capitol that could have shot 

down the gyrocopter? 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir, weapons were in place, without getting too 

deeply into it. We have various weapons deployed around the Capitol. So the short answer is yes. As with any use of force, then you 

get into an issue of whether the officer is threatened or the lives 

of anyone else is potentially threatened and that whole decisionmaking process that police officers engage in every day, not only 

here at the Capitol but across the country. 

But, yes, sir, we have officers with weapons. 

Mr. HARPER. And Chief, you know, my concern is that most 

criminals don’t telegraph the date and time of a criminal activity 

that they are going to engage in. This gentleman came as close to 

doing that as you can. And I understand he was not charged with 

any criminal offense. Is that correct? 

Chief DINE. No, sir. He was charged with several criminal offenses. 

Mr. HARPER. Was he? Okay. 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HARPER. Great. 

Chief DINE. And I actually discussed with several Members on 

both the House and the Senate side about looking at the sanctions 

of those offenses as well. 

Mr. HARPER. And I understand you can’t review every social 

media post or tweet or Facebook account that might be out there, 

but on a regular basis, is that being done just to try to monitor that 

to see if anything shows up? I am sure that is part of what you 

are doing. 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir, it is. And I would be remiss, I guess, if I 

didn’t also fill in the rest of this picture. This particular gentleman 

actually had been under investigation several years before by the 

U.S. Secret Service who shared information with us about him potentially coming either to the White House and/or the Capitol. That 

was investigated by the Secret Service. That was investigated by 

our agency. We shared information. 

At that time, he was deemed to not be a threat. But we do engage in the activity you mentioned and then determinations have 

to be made. And I think, it was alluded to earlier in the beginning 

of this hearing, we do receive thousands of pieces of information 

and various types of threats. And what we have to do is determine 

the level of threat. 

Mr. HARPER. And I understand multiple agencies are obviously 

involved in this process. There is sharing between those agencies. 

And many of these things you don’t have any advance warning as 


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potential. And while we are reviewing this, looking at ways that we 

could improve the reaction time is our concern is what happens the 

next time if there is a next time. We worry about someone else duplicating this, you know, a drone threat. Obviously, we have had 

some concerns of that in the area. 

So how we address this is a great concern. We look forward to 

engaging more with you on what we can do, what you are doing, 

how we can assist you. And we are, first of all, very appreciative 

of the job that the men and women do to protect the Capitol complex, and we thank you. 

Chief DINE. Thank you very much. 

And, as it relates to drones, if I might add, we have been working to take a leadership position in the National Capital Region. 

Several months ago we held a meeting with about 20 other law enforcement agencies and the U.S. Attorney and the Attorney General for the District of Columbia to talk about drones, the challenges that they create for state, federal, and local police agencies, 

ways to combat drones, the types of charges that may be placed, 

and it was a very far- and wide-ranging discussion. 

We are part of a task force that meets twice a month, multiple 

agencies, to talk about UAVs and how to address those issues. We 

are working with a number of agencies in that regard, and actually, we are one of the leading agencies. We just recently put out 

training for all of our officers that some other agencies are mirroring in terms of drone education, frankly. 

Mr. HARPER. Thank you. 

And I yield back, Madam Chair. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank the gentleman. 

The chair recognizes Ms. Lofgren. 

Ms. LOFGREN. Well, thank you, Madam Chair, and Mr. Brady, 

and Chief. 

I have been here—I am working on my 21st year, and I think 

this is the first time we have ever had the police before us, and I 

think it is long overdue. 

I do thank you for your testimony and certainly the men and 

women of the department who work so hard to protect the Capitol 

and the people who are here. Like some of the other members of 

the committee, I served for a long time in local government and a 

lot of what I know about policing really comes from my experience 

in local government overseeing law enforcement agencies. 

And it seems to me that a lot of the trick of being successful is 

communication; clear lines of command; clear policies, that officers 

not only understand the policies but the reasons for the policies. 

And so I am interested in hearing some of that from you. 

I remember in terms of communication, I understand the Capitol 

Police are not in charge of the airspace, but that is a communication issue. I remember after 9/11, obviously, the Capitol was a target. There was disarray, and many weeks later, we had an allhands briefing in the Capitol with bipartisan meeting. 

And I can say this now because it has all, you know, been 

changed, but one Member asked the Sergeant at Arms, when did 

the Secret Service call the Capitol Police? When did that call come 

in? And the answer was, we are still waiting for that call. I mean, 

so I think the communication between other agencies, there needs 


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to be a protocol for that so that everybody knows what they are 

supposed to do. 

So I am interested, some of that may be something you want to 

do in a private setting. I don’t know. But I would like to know what 

those protocols are, whether the other parties are aware of the protocols, and whether there is any monitoring of those protocols in 

terms of policies. 

We had the Naval Yard, a tragic situation. But one of the things 

that I thought was of concern was officers who left their station for 

the best reasons in the world, I am sure, to help in a very dire situation, but it raised the question in my mind, which is whether the 

clear policy, which is you don’t leave the Capitol, and why is it? It 

is not because we are so wonderful. It is that if the Congress is destroyed, the United States Government is destroyed. 

And if we had terrorists do a diversion, that might be a good way 

to leave the Congress, a legislative branch, vulnerable in a way 

that decapitates the American Government. So I think that officers, 

if they knew what the clear policy was, you know, everybody would 

get that. But I am not sure that that policy is in place or whether 

it has been communicated. 

So I guess, I don’t want to overdo my welcome, but I am just concerned about the policies, the command structure, the communications with other agencies, and I am wondering, Madam Chair, if we 

might have an opportunity in a confidential setting to get reports 

on those subjects. 

And I see that my time is up so I would yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentlelady very much, and I certainly look forward to continuing our discussion about information 

that we need to have in a confidential setting, certainly. 

The chair recognizes the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Nugent, 

who, as has been mentioned, has spent many, many years as a law 

enforcement agent. We appreciate you being on our Committee 

here today. 

Mr. NUGENT. Well, I appreciate your kind words, Mrs. Chairman. 

It is very important to me to hear from the Chief. 

And, Chief, once again, I think Mr. Brady hit it on the head. We 

are not here in an adversarial position, but we certainly have a lot 

of questions. At least I do. You know, I read through everything 

that the Capitol Police provided. I have tabbed it. I have looked at 

it. And I agree with Mr. Brady, this is the first time in 21⁄2 years 

that I have seen you, which is troubling at least to have that kind 

of open dialogue. 

But when we talk about, and the chairman brought it up, reference to the guns. That is like rule number one that you, I am 

sure, teach at the academy. You talk about handgun retention all 

the time. You do those things in a way that obviously has to impress upon the rank-and-file guys and gals about how important it 

is. And they understand it, trust me. I mean, you know this from 

your time. My time as a patrol officer, we understand how important that is. 

But the question I have is, it seems that there is not a lot of 

transparency in disciplinary process within the Capitol Police; secondly, when the Members that the protective details are there to 

protect weren’t even notified by the supervisor, and at one point in 


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time, it took somebody from your command staff after they were 

notified by one of—I won’t say victim of it, but one of the folks that 

had knowledge of it—you never even notified the protectee, which 

is troubling to me. 

So, you know, I understand that one has already been—well, has 

been forwarded 6-days suspension, but it is still at the bureau level 

before it is implemented. Is that true? 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir, it is still in the process but close to being 

fully adjudicated. 

Mr. NUGENT. Let me ask you a simple question about the three 

folks or at least the two that are on protective detail, are they removed from the detail? 

Chief DINE. They haven’t been yet, but we will certainly be looking at their assignment. In fact, we are looking—in terms of policies and procedures, one of the things we are looking at is rotation 

of personnel throughout the agency. 

Mr. NUGENT. Well, I understand, but in your policy, I read that 

you do have the ability for disciplinary reasons to remove somebody 

from an assignment because that is pretty gross—that is a gross 

problem if you leave a gun and particularly when a child sees it. 

Chief DINE. Absolutely. There is literally no excuse for it. 

Mr. NUGENT. You know, and I would think from the rest of the 

folks that work protecting all of us that they would expect that, you 

know, that type of violation of the rules would be held pretty high 

and the discipline would be pretty quick. So everybody understands 

because, you know, I mean putting in policy, hey, listen don’t leave 

your gun in the bathroom, that is like commonsense 101, right, 

Chief? 

I mean, so to press that point though to all the other rank-andfile folks to, hey, listen, this isn’t going to be accepted, particularly 

somebody on a protective detail because that is quite a responsibility to have that position. And, obviously, they did a great job at 

whatever position they had, I would think, to get elevated to that. 

Chief DINE. Right. 

Mr. NUGENT. And so the question has been, at least raised in the 

press, is that we only find out about this stuff if it is somehow 

leaked. Are you going to do something different with Capitol Police 

in regards to violations of policy so I think this committee at least 

should be aware of those types of problems so we can assist you 

in doing the things that you need to do, whether it is in funding 

or it is placing, like the chairman mentioned, lockboxes, as we used 

to do when you went into court or you went somewhere where 

there was a prisoner—and I know you sure have those at the office—that you have those in strategic areas within whatever protector it maybe. 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. And, obviously, we need to do and I need 

to do a better job at briefing you and spending time with you so 

you are fully aware of how the Department operates and our practices so you feel confident with those issues and the things that do 

exist, and then, of course, we have to continue to take these things 

seriously and do something about them. 

Mr. NUGENT. Were the people that these officers were protecting, 

were they notified? Were the Speaker of the House and them or 


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others notified of the violation of policy with the weapon unattended? 

Chief DINE. At some point, the chain of command was notified 

in terms of that side; yes, sir. When that happened, if that happened, as soon as it should have, I don’t know the answer to that. 

But, obviously, people need to know, and personnel practices aren’t 

generally, obviously, discussed in the media, but I would like for 

you to hear about these kinds of things from me or my representative. 

Mr. NUGENT. Well, you are hitting it on the head. That is the 

last place—I can remember being as sheriff. I didn’t want to read 

about it in the newspaper when somebody hasn’t told me. 

Chief DINE. Exactly. 

Mr. NUGENT. One last question on the gun issue, and I don’t 

want to beat this to death, but the supervisor that was aware of 

the officer leaving his firearm or her firearm unattended didn’t notify the chain of command reference to that violation. What is happening to that supervisor? 

Chief DINE. That will be addressed as well because, as you mentioned, there has to be a notification process for that supervisor. 

That is part of the role of being a supervisor, taking action, yes, 

sir. 

Mr. NUGENT. Right. And, once again, and I know that investigations take a while, but I would suggest that this is a pretty simple 

investigation as compared to some that we have had to investigate 

over the course of our careers that, you know, need an extension. 

Like you said, you have a 60-day rule and you can extend to 120. 

I get it. I had to do it too. But these types of actions need to be 

pretty swift, I would think, just for your rank and file, so they 

know that, you know, people are held accountable. 

Chief DINE. Absolutely. I think that is the whole key to good discipline is that it be swift and sure and effective and change the behavior of it. That is the whole purpose for it. Right. 

Mr. NUGENT. Well, that is what discipline is all about. I mean, 

you try to coach and counsel and do all those things, but ultimately, they have to know there is a penalty if you do that. 

And my last question, if you would indulge me, is really about 

the email that was sent that referenced the gyrocopter, the email 

that you referenced that came in at 12:59 p.m., on April 15. And 

the subject says, ‘‘Question: Is a man flying gyrocopter toward U.S. 

Capitol?’’ That is pretty distinct, I think. 

And it says: Hi, I am a reporter for the Tampa Bay Times. A 

local man, as a protest, is flying a gyrocopter and is trying to land 

on the lawn of the Capitol. He says he has notified all relevant authorities. His name is Doug Hughes. 

And more, they give the address, because my staff went on there 

and was watching it as it occurred, as he live-streamed his flight 

from Gettysburg. And, you know, it goes on to say to the Capitol 

Police, no. Have they okay’d this flight and the landing? And please 

call me. Gave a phone number. 

Here is my concern, is that that is pretty specific, in that, A, it 

took how long before you were notified and those at the Capitol and 

those that possibly—who knows what the intent of this guy is. And 

that is the problem. When the guy climbs the fence at the White 


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House, you don’t know what his intent is. We don’t want to wait 

to find out what their intent is because then we are in a mode— 

our guys and gals do a great job of making the arrest, but we 

would rather not be there. 

And so my question is, when were you notified that there was 

a threat to the Capitol? 

Chief DINE. I was notified, I believe, essentially immediately as 

it happened. 

Mr. NUGENT. As what happened? 

Chief DINE. As he landed. 

Mr. NUGENT. To me it just seems like it would be all hands on 

deck when you get an email like this and you have the Web site 

to go to, that bells should be ringing, sirens should be blaring within your chain of command as to, this is pretty damn important, excuse my language, but it is. What I worry about is that whoever 

got this information just said: Well, you know, we get this stuff all 

the time. 

Well, this is fairly specific, would you not agree? 

Chief DINE. Fairly specific, and obviously unique in that regard. 

Obviously didn’t say that it was happening, but one could reason 

that—— 

Mr. NUGENT. If you read it, it is fairly obvious in the report, it 

gives his phone number so you can contact me. It wasn’t like he 

was just, leaving something. 

Let me ask you this. The Sergeant at Arms, when was he notified of this email? 

Chief DINE. We made notifications to the Sergeants at Arms immediately. I don’t recall specifically. I can go back and check when 

they were apprised of the email and the phone call, because we 

gave them a time line of what happened. Very quickly after the 

event, I gave them a time line of all the things that happened. 

Mr. NUGENT. Chief, did he get a copy of this email? 

Chief DINE. Did the Sergeants at Arms get a copy? 

Mr. NUGENT. Did the Sergeant at Arms get a copy of it? 

Chief DINE. I know I gave them a time line. I don’t know that 

the email itself was attached. But we gave them a synopsis report 

very close to the event. 

Mr. NUGENT. We had the Sergeant at Arms in here and asked 

him questions about this, because obviously we are concerned, and 

we don’t want to get into any of the classified portion of it. 

Chief DINE. Right. 

Mr. NUGENT. That I would hope we could do at a later date. I 

sit on Armed Services, so we have a lot of classified sessions afterwards. 

The Sergeant At Arms was very, I don’t think he was vague on 

purpose, but based upon what you are saying, is he didn’t relate 

any of this like it is in this email to us. And so I am concerned 

about that. And that is why, if you didn’t notice him with this 

email, I think that is problematic, at least for the Sergeant at 

Arms, and I can’t speak for him. 

I yield back. I see I am out of time. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman. 

We can have a second round of questions. I would like to now 

recognize Mr. Davis. 


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Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Before I go into the questions I had, I just want to piggyback on 

something that my colleague Mr. Nugent was talking about with 

this email. We are concerned. That email was very, very specific. 

How many, on average, emails like that do you get a day? 

Chief DINE. About gyrocopters? 

Mr. DAVIS. About threats. 

Chief DINE. Not many gyrocopter emails. 

Mr. DAVIS. So you don’t get specific emails like that? 

Chief DINE. We get a lot of letters, calls, various types of threats, 

or matters of direction, that is what we call them if they are not 

threats. They all fall under the threat category, we get probably a 

couple thousand of those a year—— 

Mr. DAVIS. A year? 

Chief DINE. Of all types, shapes, and sizes. 

Mr. DAVIS. But, Chief, you don’t get a lot of specific ones like 

Doug Hughes is flying a gyrocopter today on the Capitol lawn, 

right? 

Chief DINE. We don’t get many about gyrocopters landing on the 

Capitol lawn; no, sir. 

Mr. DAVIS. All right. Well, that is the first time I have seen that 

email in our packets, and it is specific enough to, I think, warrant 

some issues. 

That went to the public information officer, correct? Is that a generic account or did that go to somebody that monitors that on a 

regular basis? 

Chief DINE. No, it went to our lieutenant who is in charge of that 

office, and then, as I mentioned, we got a call. 

Mr. DAVIS. Did that lieutenant immediately turn that information around? 

Chief DINE. She sent it, I think, within 5 or 6 or 7 minutes to 

our investigators. 

Mr. DAVIS. But still you mentioned in your testimony, you mentioned here today in the questions that you didn’t learn about this 

until it was happening. 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. DAVIS. So we did miss a little bit of the time line. Has that 

PIO been notified that you may want to act a little more quickly 

on such specific information? 

Chief DINE. We have discussed the matter; yes, sir. 

Mr. DAVIS. Is that PIO going to be disciplined? 

Chief DINE. She won’t be disciplined, but we have discussed the 

matter. 

Mr. DAVIS. Okay. And it gets to my main point. Look, we understand, I will bet you common sense will prevail and no officer will 

ever leave a firearm in a toilet cover dispenser again in the Capitol 

Complex, we will likely not see many gyrocopters try and land on 

the lawn, because we are reactive. Hopefully, you didn’t have to 

put a specific provision in your training manual about not leaving 

firearms in toilet cover dispensers. 

But that is a reaction. What is the Capitol Police doing to be 

more proactive? What can we do to simplify the contact process so 

that all of us on Capitol Hill understand what has actually happened? What can we do, what can you do as the Capitol Police to 


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simplify the notification process when you get a specific email like 

my colleague Mr. Nugent just read to the committee? How do we 

make things more simple so that we don’t just have you come in 

to react to a certain situation or in this case multiple situations? 

Chief DINE. The notification process was something that needed 

to be fixed and resolved. So I guess never letting a good crisis go 

to waste, the next day Assistant Chief Verderosa and I met, and 

we directed that immediate notifications go out to you about incidents up here. There was a fairly antiquated, bureaucratic, overly 

complicated notification process. We have bypassed that and directed that notifications go out. 

And I will apologize in advance if you get too many notifications 

now, but I would rather you be notified than not be notified and 

that your complaint is that you got too much information than not. 

So we immediately fixed that, literally the next day, in terms of 

that notification process. 

Mr. DAVIS. So you fixed those certain situations to react to the 

gyrocopter incidents and the leaving firearms in certain facilities 

incidents. 

Are there any other issues that you are looking at overall within 

the Capitol Police to be more proactive, to maybe look at simplifying your protocols and your training methods to ensure that we 

don’t even have these situations again? 

Chief DINE. Well, I can tell you from 40 years of doing this, I 

hate to say this, there is probably going to be some other incident 

of somebody doing something. But what we have done, as I mentioned, we have clarified the training, we have added more training 

to make sure that we are discussing it every time officers qualify, 

which is twice a year, and then we have added online training as 

it relates to gyrocopters and UAVs and those kinds of things. 

We have new training we just put online, and I think we are one 

of the few agencies that have done that. And as I mentioned, we 

now have other agencies mirroring that training to make them 

aware of those kinds of things. And that is an awareness piece of 

what to do when you see a UAV or drone or those kinds of things, 

because that is kind of a fairly unique episode. 

Mr. DAVIS. Well, Chief, it looks like my time has expired, but let 

me end by saying this. I hope you understand that all of us around 

this committee, we want to work with you. I am brand new to the 

committee, unlike my colleagues, who mentioned earlier that they 

haven’t had a chance to really work with you. But we are all here 

to be an asset to what you are trying to do. 

The men and women who protect this Capitol Complex and the 

tourists who come and visit on a regular basis do a great job. We 

want to help you help them and help you succeed in your job. So 

use us to be helpful, use us to help create more proactive procedures and policies. And I look forward to working with you. Thank 

you. 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank the gentleman. 

The chair now recognizes Mr. Walker. 

Mr. WALKER. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 


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Chief Dine, I believe this is the third hearing that I have been 

part of on the House Oversight and Homeland Security, maybe we 

have even had a classified hearing or two. 

I do want to zero in on basically two questions today, and I want 

to start with going back to your notes on page 5. It says: ‘‘In February 2014, the department fully implemented its new digital 

encrypted radio system without issues or communication service 

interruptions.’’ It also says: ‘‘This new radio system provides coverage to the Capitol Complex and is now available in areas that 

previously did not receive radio communications.’’ I am on page 5. 

Now, here is the important part. It says: ‘‘It also has allowed for 

greater interoperability. To date, the Department has the ability to 

conduct the interoperable radio communication bridges with more 

than a dozen other agencies . . . This equipment allows both parties to communicate directly on each other’s radio systems in order 

to broadcast critical information in a timely manner.’’ 

Now, according to my time line, it looks to be about 23 or 24 

months. Can you tell me was that radio system in play and were 

these agencies interacting as far as when they first found out over 

those 24 minutes? 

Chief DINE. We did interact, I believe, but we did not use the 

radio system for this particular incident. It is interoperable. We 

have interoperability with the D.C. Police, U.S. Park Police, Secret 

Service, FBI SWAT team, and a number of other agencies. 

Mr. WALKER. Can you tell me what? Did you use telephone? I 

mean, this looks like it is a state of the art, real-time. 

Chief DINE. It was. And as I think we have discussed in some 

other hearings, if I recall correctly, an officer from Park Police saw 

the gyrocopter, and I believe a Secret Service officer may have. 

They made their notifications. They also made notifications to the 

people that oversee the NCRCC. 

Mr. WALKER. Right. 

Chief DINE. We actually were not notified until we saw it. 

Mr. WALKER. Well, as my colleague Mr. Davis was just talking 

about, if we have this kind of technology, I don’t understand why 

there is not kind of an all-points bulletin going on throughout all 

these agencies. I am assuming these are two-way radios. 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WALKER. All right. Let me move to my next question here. 

You also talked about in—and I guess you have been here about 

21⁄2 years, and from what I have read and heard you are doing a 

fine job—there is a communication concern. And you said your goal 

was to provide, I believe, quote, ‘‘better communication.’’ 

I admire and I appreciate that goal, but can you give me some 

of the action steps that you might say this is how we can implement better communication from our department to yours? And 

after you finish that response, I will yield back to the chairwoman. 

Thank you. 

Chief DINE. Yes, sir. Well, first of all, as I mentioned, we are 

going to do a better job communicating with you with notifications, 

and I am personally going to do a better job meeting with and communicating with you, and I look forward to that. 

Internally, though, it is really important that we communicate 

with our whole Department. And I was talking to a young officer 


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a month or so ago one night, in the evening—I am around kind of 

all hours of the day and night—and the officer said something that 

was pretty brilliant, because things go out in the media and there 

is discussion. And he said to me, he said: Well, Chief, sometimes 

all we know is what we read, because we don’t hear what the 

whole other side is or what the Department’s side is. 

And sometimes you learn the best things from the officers on the 

ground, and I have never forgotten that, having been a police officer for now, in a couple weeks, it will be 40 years. 

So we need to get our message out to our people when there is 

a story to tell them about what happened and what happened right 

and what happened wrong and what the actually story is. So we 

are going to be putting out more messages in that regard and have 

more interactions with our people at all levels. 

Mr. WALKER. Thank you, Chief. 

Madam Speaker, yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman. 

Chief, I have a couple other questions, I think, as well, before we 

conclude here. One is, going back to my Homeland Security, and 

Mr. Walker and I both sit on that committee also, but when you 

go to the southern border, you are looking at real stats there, the 

eye in the sky, it is very sophisticated technology, and they are utilizing it. In many cases it is already surplus stuff from the Department of Defense, equipment that has been extremely effective in 

theater, whether you are trying to secure a border between Afghanistan and Pakistan or the Rio Grande or what have you. It is the 

eye in the sky. 

So just the ability to be looking at something I think we can say 

this publicly—when you were looking at this gyrocopter, it is difficult sometimes for radar to pick up various kinds of things, right? 

I mean, technology is exploding every day, whether it is UAVs, 

whether it is drones. I mean, they are going to be using drones to 

deliver your taco here pretty soon, this is what is coming. 

So how can you be able to assess using technology that is as 

available as quickly as you can? This kind of equipment is very expensive as well, although, again, the expense of it is something you 

have to take into consideration. But you need to ask us, because 

we are the ones that have to get the money, make the priorities 

of what we are doing and what we are expending money on to keep 

the Capitol and the campus here secure. 

Really much of this equipment is already, I think, unless the 

CBP has already got most of the good stuff, but it is something 

that you may want to take a look at. It is incredibly effective. I 

mean, I have been in the stations, in the ground stations. It is unbelievable how clearly you can see from high distances everything 

that is going on and the ability then to immediately, using communications, to tell, again, the boots on the ground, look, this is happening. You don’t have to just be patrolling back and forth here 

looking for something. They are going to say: This is happening 

here, now, go there. 

It is unbelievable technology. Again, I am a layman, but it seems 

to me that that may be something you could utilize here. 

Chief DINE. Yes, ma’am. We are looking at that. We actually had 

a briefing this morning. And I would look forward to briefing you 


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in a confidential setting about some of the things that we are looking at. And you already know what they do for you, but there is 

a lot of technology out there that is being worked. We are working 

that on every level with pretty much every agency in the country. 

We are part of that effort to make sure that we are in on what is 

needed. 

The gap, frankly, where the gap needs to be closed is once the 

vehicle is identified, how then what do you do about it? And that 

is essentially what happened here. Even if we knew it was coming, 

how then do you determine what is the action taken once you have 

identified it? 

But clearly the earlier we know about it and the earlier we can 

identify it the better we can make decisions about evacuations, 

which is a big part of how we use our systems now, and whether 

any use of force either by us or DOD, which really plays a main 

role, is appropriate. 

So you are right, early identification is critical. 

The CHAIRMAN. I mean, I don’t think I am speaking out of turn 

here. Obviously the bad guys know we have this equipment, so it 

is not like it is some big secret, right? We do utilize it. 

The other question I would ask you, because this is something 

that has been talked about quite a bit, I said in my opening statement that obviously we all recognize the challenges that are being 

faced by police departments across the country because of a number of reasons, various incidents that have happened recently. 

What is your thought about body cameras? There has been a lot 

of talk about whether or not that is a good thing, whether it is an 

expenditure of funds that is worthwhile or it is not, does it help 

the police, does it not, does it help all the way around to be able 

to demonstrate exactly what had happened there. And I think the 

Capitol Police don’t use them now, and I don’t know if there has 

been some thought given to whether or not you are interested in 

pursuing that. 

What is your thought about these body cameras? I know there 

is a lot of talk about them. 

Chief DINE. There is a lot of talk about it, and I would like the 

Committee to know that we stay abreast of that. Obviously, as you 

might expect, I meet with chiefs from around the country regularly 

at conferences and forums. The Police Executive Research Forum, 

who is located right here in Washington, D.C., they have taken a 

leadership role in that. They have put out basically, I think, one 

of the seminal sort of reports on the use of body cameras and how 

those are implemented, working with chiefs that have implemented 

them. 

I think they are a good tool. I would opine that, like any piece 

of technology, they are not a panacea. What is concerning a little 

bit is as we think about the future and some next piece of technology, are we going to get to the point where a police officer without a body camera, that the police officer’s testimony is worthless? 

That is concerning to me, frankly, having done this for so long. But 

do I think it is a potentially useful piece of tool? Yes. So we are 

monitoring that very closely to see if it is something that would be 

appropriately utilized here. 


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There are still a lot of privacy questions about what happens to 

the information, how it is protected, and those kinds of things that, 

while there are some best practices opinions about that, have not 

been fully determined. That is one of the debates going on right 

here in Washington, D.C., what happens to those videos and do 

they end up on YouTube and those kinds of things. 

But we are closely monitoring. I have actually read the PERF report, so I am up-to-date on, I think, where things are as it relates 

to that technology. 

The CHAIRMAN. Okay. Well, I would just say in regards to that, 

if you come to the conclusion or recommendation that that is something you do want to pursue, again, you can make a proposal to 

us. We want to be your advocate if we can and in agreement with 

what you are looking for. 

The last question, and if you don’t want to answer this question 

you don’t have to, but I mentioned in my opening statement, I personally have some question, consternation about the current wiring 

diagram for your management structure, I don’t care whether it is 

you or who the next person is going to be, just because of the way 

that the Capitol Police Board, the construct of it. As I say, it has 

been in existence for a very long time, and I think it probably has 

worked well. 

On the other hand, the largest room is always the room for improvement, and it is 2015. Perhaps it is time for us to think about 

whether or not having the Sergeant at Arms in the Senate and the 

Sergeant at Arms in the House and then the Architect of the Capitol deciding who is going—I mean, hiring, firing, disciplining, 

whatever. You have three bosses. I have about 750,000 bosses, but 

you have 3. I mean, that has got to be a very difficult thing, and 

I am just not sure it serves us as well as it could. 

So I am not sure if I am really asking you, since those are your 

bosses, what you think about that structure, but I certainly throw 

it out to the Committee members as well to digest it all a bit. And 

I think we may want to think about if that is adequate or whether 

or not we could improve that. If you would like to comment, you 

can. If you don’t want to, you don’t have to. 

Chief DINE. Well, I will just say that I think that the Board 

wears several hats, and I work with them in both of those arenas. 

They wear their hats in their individual role as the Sergeant at 

Arms for the House or the Senate or the Architect, and we work 

with them and their staffs individually each and every day in 

terms of all the issues that we deal with individually for their entity. 

And while I am at it, we also work very closely with you and 

your staffs. And we appreciate the oversight that you and your 

staffs and all the committees have provided to us, and I have relied 

heavily on the outstanding people I have that have done that. But 

that is no excuse for me not personally meeting with you, which 

I look forward to doing. 

So we have a lot of interaction with the staffs, and often they act 

as buffers for the police, but then they wear their Police Board hat 

where ostensibly they are coming together as a cohesive entity to 

give guidance and direction and oversight. So we work with them, 

I guess, on several levels, and I will leave it at that. 


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The CHAIRMAN. All right. Very well. 

Any other questions? Mr. Ranking Member. 

Mr. BRADY. Yeah. Just quickly, Madam Chairman. Thank you for 

having this hearing, because I got an opportunity to meet the Chief 

of Police of Capitol Hill. 

I do need to get to know you better, for a lot of reasons, because 

I work here and I am worried about the people that visit here. But 

also you are coming to my city in 2016, coming to Philadelphia, we 

have our convention there, and I would like to get to know you better. There are a lot of logistics that are there, field office, kind of 

a unique place. Everybody is in charge and everybody is smarter 

than everybody else. So I would just like to fill you in on all that 

and make sure that you don’t step on any land mines while you 

are there. 

So I do need to get a little bit to know you better. You need to 

get to know me and our committee better. 

Madam Chair, thank you for having this hearing, and I yield 

back the balance of my time. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank you very much. I am certain you are 

going to have the Chief bringing a patch to that cheesesteak place. 

Mr. BRADY. I failed to state, and this person is also the biggest 

around and he is also a major law enforcement supporter, and he 

closes down his shop three or four times a year for 2 or 3 days. I 

mean, he doesn’t close it down, he keeps it open. But all the proceeds go to the police officers. I am talking about probably up to 

maybe a couple millions dollars. So it was worth it. 

And I was proud to bring my chief of police down there, and he 

wanted to put the patch on the wall, and he put it right in the middle of all the many, many other patches. So you come down, and 

I will fatten you up with a cheesesteak. 

The CHAIRMAN. Very good. 

Chief DINE. I appreciate that. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Florida. 

Mr. NUGENT. I just have a comment about Philadelphia just in 

passing. Been there for a lot of Army-Navy games, and you are 

right, there is a great place, there are a couple places that actually 

have a pretty good cheesesteak, but I know the one you are talking 

about. 

And, Chief, I would just say that in reading your response and 

all that, I think if you follow through with those things it will be 

a good thing. But you hit on something earlier that is near and 

dear to my heart where you were talking to one of the guys on the 

street. I found, and I am sure you did too, management by walking 

around, it is nothing against your command staff, but I used to 

have my command staff come in and say: Boss, how do you know 

that? 

And it is amazing the things that you will hear from those folks 

that actually do the job. Command staff is great, but they have 

their reasons to do whatever, to insulate you or whatever, and I 

think it is real important that if you are not having townhall meetings with your folks, you ought to. It is a great opportunity. 

I had the FOP as the union for my sworn patrol officers and 

below sergeant. They were actually my best ally in dealing with 


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budget issues as it relates to benefits and salaries. So I would just 

say that that is something you can really, really encourage. 

And so with that, I yield back. I thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Thank the gentleman. 

Ms. Lofgren. 

Ms. LOFGREN. I think this has been helpful, and I am hopeful 

that we can have a followup meeting soon for some of the other 

issues that we either need to discuss confidentially or would like 

to raise in a less public setting because of security reasons. 

But I would like to at that time to discuss with the Chief efforts 

to provide security outside of the Capitol in our district offices and 

also how we are using security to sort through the incoming. I 

mean, if you get a thousand emails a day, there is a way to mine 

that using technology to sort through what is likely to be a problem 

and what isn’t. And I don’t know if that is being done at this point, 

but it is something I would like to explore further. 

With that, thank you. I will yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentlelady. 

I thank all the Committee members. 

Mr. NUGENT. I second it. 

The CHAIRMAN. Pardon me? 

Mr. NUGENT. I second it. 

The CHAIRMAN. You second it. Very good. 

I thank everybody, all the Committee members. 

Obviously, Chief, we had excellent attendance here today with a 

very engaged group of members who have a lot of questions and 

concerns, and I think everybody asked them very well. And your 

testimony was very good and your answers as well, although I 

think some of us are still scratching our head a little bit about 

some of these things. 

I will say that if there is one takeaway from this hearing that 

I think you can see very clearly, the Members of Congress just 

have the utmost respect for the United States Capitol Police, and 

you are here representing your force of almost 2,000 folks here, and 

some of your staff and your folks are here today. 

We tell you that in all sincerity. We thank you each and every 

day. And there are so many incidents, as I mentioned in my opening statement, that we never hear about. We never hear about 

these things, they just are handled, they are handled. 

So we are just very, very appreciative of your willingness. Everybody comes to work willingly each and every day to protect this 

campus, and as I say, most importantly, all the Americans that are 

here. We do as a Committee stand ready to continue to work shoulder to shoulder with you and your entire force on our common goal 

of just keeping ourselves secure and keeping this campus secure 

and protecting democracy and freedom and liberty, all of those 

things. So we thank you very much. 

Without objection, I will also mention that all members will have 

5 legislative days to submit to the chair any additional written 

questions for the witness, which we will forward and ask him to 

respond as promptly as he could so that that answer could be made 

part of the record as well. 

[The information follows:] 


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The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the hearing is adjourned. 

Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 3:36 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

Æ 


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