S. Hrg. 114–290 

ADEQUACY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH 

AND HUMAN SERVICES’ EFFORTS TO PROTECT 

UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN CHILDREN FROM HUMAN 

TRAFFICKING 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

JANUARY 28, 2016 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
ADEQUACY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES’ 

EFFORTS TO PROTECT UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN CHILDREN FROM HUMAN TRAFFICKING 
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office

Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800

Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001

20–085 PDF 2016

S. Hrg. 114–290 

ADEQUACY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH 

AND HUMAN SERVICES’ EFFORTS TO PROTECT 

UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN CHILDREN FROM HUMAN 

TRAFFICKING 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

JANUARY 28, 2016 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin, Chairman 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire 

JONI ERNST, Iowa 

BEN SASSE, Nebraska 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

KEITH B. ASHDOWN, Staff Director 

GABRIELLE A. BATKIN, Minority Staff Director 

JOHN P. KILVINGTON, Minority Deputy Staff Director 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

BENJAMIN C. GRAZDA, Hearing Clerk 

PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio Chairman 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire 

BEN SASSE, Nebraska 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

BRIAN CALLANAN, Staff Director 

MARGARET DAUM, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

KELSEY STROUD, Chief Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Portman .............................................................................................. 1 

Senator McCaskill ............................................................................................ 5 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 7 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 8 

Senator Lankford .............................................................................................. 24 

Senator McCain ................................................................................................ 28 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Portman .............................................................................................. 51 

Senator McCaskill ............................................................................................ 57 

WITNESSES 

THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2016 

Mark Greenberg, Acting Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children 

and Families, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; accompanied by Robert Carey, Director, Office of Refugee Resettlement, U.S. 

Department of Health and Human Services ...................................................... 10 

Tiffany Nelms, Associate Director, Unaccompanied Children’s Services, U.S. 

Committee for Refugees and Immigrants .......................................................... 35 

Jennifer Justice, Deputy Director, Office of Families and Children, Ohio Department of Job and Family Services ................................................................. 37 

Kimberly Haynes, Director for Children’s Services, Lutheran Immigration 

and Refugee Service ............................................................................................. 39 

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Greenberg, Mark: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 10 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 61 

Haynes, Kimberly: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 39 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 87 

Justice, Jennifer: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 37 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 83 

Nelms, Tiffany: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 35 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 78 

APPENDIX 

Majority Staff Report ............................................................................................... 101 

Mark Greenberg letter to Senator McCaskill ........................................................ 412 

UAC Apprehensions Chart ..................................................................................... 416 

Apprehensions: First Quarter Chart ...................................................................... 417 

Kimberly Haynes FAQ and Statement of Principles from the Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service ................................................................................ 418 

Statements for the Record from: 

Church World Service ...................................................................................... 427 

The Young Center ............................................................................................ 428 

We Belong Together ......................................................................................... 433 

Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record from Mr. Greenberg and 

Mr. Carey .............................................................................................................. 435 

(1) 

ADEQUACY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF 

HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES’ EFFORTS TO 

PROTECT UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN CHILDREN 

FROM HUMAN TRAFFICKING 

THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2016 

U.S. SENATE,

PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS,

OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Rob Portman, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Portman, McCain, Lankford, Ayotte, Johnson, 

McCaskill, Tester, Heitkamp, and Carper. 

Staff present: Brian Callanan, Matt Owen, Rachael Tucker, Margaret Daum, Mel Beras, Kelsey Stroud, Will Council, Richard 

Marquez, Crystal Higgins, Brandon Reavis, Eric Bursch, Liam Forsythe, Stephanie Hall, Mark Delich, Quin Roberts, Molly Sherlock, 

Monica Carmean, Sarah Seitz, Samantha Roberts, Holly Idelson, 

Melissa Egred, Brooke Ericson, and Joske Bautista. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PORTMAN 

Senator PORTMAN. This hearing will come to order. 

Six months ago, many of my constituents in Ohio opened their 

morning papers to read the shocking news that law enforcement 

had discovered a human-trafficking ring operating in Marion, 

Ohio—a small town about 50 miles north of Columbus, Ohio. 

Six defendants were charged with enslaving multiple victims, including more than six migrant children from Guatemala, on egg 

farms in Marion County, Ohio. The details of the crime laid out by 

U.S. Attorney Steve Dettelbach were chilling. Traffickers lured the 

child victims to the United States with the promise of schooling 

and a better life. The parents of some of the victims even signed 

over the deeds to their properties back home as collateral for debt 

incurred to pay for the journey. But not long after their arrival, 

these children—some as young as 14 years old—were forced to 

work 12 hours a day, 6 to 7 days a week. The work was grueling. 

And the living conditions were squalid, with children packed into 

a dilapidated trailer. They said that some of the kids were living 

on mattresses underneath the trailer. 

To compel them to work, the traffickers withheld their paychecks 

and threatened their families. As the indictment lays out, the de-
2 

fendants, and I quote, ‘‘used a combination of threats, humiliation, 

deprivation, financial coercion, and debt manipulation’’ to create ‘‘a 

climate of fear and helplessness.’’ Five of the six defendants have 

now pled guilty. 

It is intolerable that human trafficking—modern-day slavery— 

could occur in our own backyard in the 21st Century. But it does. 

What makes this Marion case even more alarming is that a U.S. 

government agency was actually responsible for delivering some of 

the victims into the hands of their abusers. 

In 2014, more than six of the children found on the Marion egg 

farms traveled, without their parents, across Central America to 

our Southern Border. When they arrived here, they were entrusted 

to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), like 

thousands of other unaccompanied children (UAC) who have been 

detained at the border. Under Federal law, it is then HHS’ job to 

find and vet a relative or trusted family friend to care for the child 

until their immigration court date or else house them in safe shelters. Instead, HHS delivered the Marion children into the hands of 

a human-trafficking ring that forced them into these slave labor 

conditions we talked about. 

How could this have happened in America? 

After the release of the indictment last summer, Senator 

McCaskill and I launched an investigation to find out. How did 

HHS hand over a group of children to human traffickers? Was it 

a tragic failure to follow agency procedure in each of these cases? 

Or was the problem that the agency’s procedures do not work and 

need reform? These were very important questions not only because of the Marion cases, but because of the number of additional 

children who are at risk. 

Over the past 2 years, HHS has placed about 90,000 migrant 

children—the vast majority from Central America—with adult 

sponsors in the United States. That surge of migrant children coming into the United States illegally is a topic of some debate. There 

is certainly evidence that this Administration’s executive actions on 

immigration encouraged the surge. But whatever your views on immigration policy, everyone should be able to agree that the Administration has a responsibility to ensure the safety of the migrant 

kids that have entered government custody until their immigration 

court date. 

Unaccompanied children are uniquely vulnerable to human trafficking because many are in debt to the smugglers who arrange for 

their passage. The risk is that the smugglers may then force them 

to work off that debt once they arrive. That is why Federal law specifically provides that HHS protect these kids from traffickers and 

others who seek to victimize them. 

We investigated these protections as part of a thorough, 6-month, 

bipartisan inquiry. The Subcommittee requested and reviewed 

thousands of pages of child placement case files, internal emails, 

and other documents from HHS. We interviewed several senior officials at HHS; we consulted with experts in child welfare and trafficking protections. That bipartisan staff report has been issued 

today, and it details the troubling findings from that inquiry. 

Our conclusion is that the Department of Health and Human 

Services’ process for placing unaccompanied children suffers from 
3 

serious, systemic failures. The horrible trafficking crime that occurred in Marion, Ohio, could likely have been prevented if HHS 

had adopted common-sense measures for screening sponsors, and 

checking in on the well-being of at-risk children—protections that 

are standard, by the way, in foster care systems run by all the 

States, including Ohio. 

And, unfortunately, the systemic defects that contributed to the 

Marion cases appear to have exposed unaccompanied minors to 

abuse in other cases reviewed by the Subcommittee. 

First, the victims of the Marion traffickers were placed with alleged family friends or distant relatives—which are known as ‘‘Category 3’’ sponsors. As it turned out, the sponsors were not really 

family friends at all. Two of them were basically sponsors for 

hire—strangers hired by human smugglers just to get the child out 

of HHS custody and then immediately pass them on to the traffickers. HHS did not know that, though, because it does not insist 

on any real verification of the supposed relationship between the 

sponsor and the child, apart from the say-so of a relative. One Marion case file actually contains no explanation at all of the child’s 

relationship with the sponsor or his family. We learned that this 

kind of lax relationship verification is standard practice in Category 3 placements. A lost opportunity to protect these kids and 

others. 

Second, HHS missed obvious indications that the sponsors in the 

Marion cases were accumulating multiple unrelated children—a 

sign that should have triggered greater scrutiny for risk of trafficking. Our review of the Marion case files reveals an interconnected web of sponsors of multiple children sharing the same 

address. HHS failed to connect any of these dots. 

Third, remarkably, HHS did not visit a single sponsor’s home to 

interview the sponsors and assess the proposed living conditions 

before placing them. We have learned that home studies are universally conducted in foster care placements—a close analogy to 

this situation—but HHS has done them in only about 4 percent of 

these unaccompanied children placements over the past 3 years. 

Only about 4 percent. This policy, of course, places thousands of 

children at risk every day. 

Fourth, HHS’ procedures for what to do after a child is placed 

with a sponsor also failed. Only one victim of the Marion humantrafficking ring was the subject of any kind of post-release home 

visit to check on the child’s well-being. But, shockingly, the adult 

sponsor was allowed to block the child welfare worker, on contract 

from HHS, from visiting that child, even after the caseworker discovered the child was not living at the home on file with HHS. As 

a result, the government missed another opportunity to uncover 

the crime being perpetrated. Incredibly, this was not a mishap. It 

is official HHS policy. HHS allows sponsors to refuse post-release 

services offered to a migrant child—even to bar contact between 

the child and an HHS Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) care 

provider attempting to provide those services. Basically, when a 

sponsor says no, the caseworker is instructed simply to write, 

‘‘Case closed.’’ 

Finally—and this is hard to believe—at the time of these cases, 

if a potential sponsor said on his application that he lived with 
4 

1The staff report referenced by Portman appears in the Appendix on page 101. 

three other adults, and that if anything happened to him, a backup 

sponsor could care for the child, which is sometimes required, HHS 

policy was not to conduct background checks of any kind on any of 

the sponsor’s roommates or the backup caregiver listed on the 

form. None. Background checks were only run on the sponsor himself. And this is even more incredible to me: If that check turned 

up a criminal history, HHS policy was that no criminal conviction, 

no matter how serious, automatically disqualified a sponsor. 

On these points, however, I can report that in response to our 6- 

month investigation, just this week HHS strengthened its criminal 

background check policy effective January 25—as outlined in our 

report. This is progress. But I continue to be troubled by the fact 

that HHS told us that it is literally unable to figure out how many 

children it has placed with convicted felons, what crimes these individuals committed, or how that class of children are doing, how 

they are faring today. 

The bottom line is that this is unacceptable. HHS has placed 

children with non-relatives that have no verified relationship with 

the child, who receive no home visit or in-person interview, whose 

household members have unknown backgrounds or criminal 

records, and who can freely cutoff social workers’ access to the 

child. Worse, when senior HHS officials were alerted to trafficking 

risks due to the Marion cases and other evidence of children working in debt labor, they failed to adequately strengthen their policies—despite the fact that the Senate Appropriations Committee 

tells us that HHS has more than $350 million in unspent funds for 

this very program over the past 2 years. That is for this program, 

$350 million in unspent funds. 

Perhaps the most troubling, unanswered question is this: How 

many other cases are there like the Marion trafficking case? The 

answer is HHS does not know. The Subcommittee has reviewed 

more than 30 cases involving serious indications of trafficking and 

abuse of unaccompanied children placed by HHS over the past 3 

years. But human trafficking occurs on a black market, and other 

forms of abuse occur in the shadows. The Department maintains no 

regular means of tracking even known cases of trafficking or abuse, 

and it does little to monitor the status or well-being of the tens of 

thousands of children it has placed. There are, in the words of one 

leading care provider, untold numbers of effectively ‘‘lost’’ migrant 

children living in the United States. 

What I can say with confidence is that HHS’ policies expose unaccompanied minors to an unreasonable risk of trafficking, debt 

bondage, and other forms of abuse at the hands of their sponsors. 

That must change. Today we will seek answers from the Administration and discuss a path forward toward what I know is our 

shared goal of strengthening this system to protect every child in 

America. 

Without objection, the joint staff report and the appendix to the 

report will be made part of the record.1

With that, I will turn to our Ranking Member, Senator 

McCaskill, for her opening statement. And I want to thank Senator 

McCaskill for being a good partner on this investigation, for work-
5 

ing very hard on this issue, and for her passion for these kids. Senator McCaskill. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR McCASKILL 

Senator MCCASKILL. Thank you, Chairman Portman. I want to 

thank you for bringing the topic of this hearing and the Subcommittee’s investigation to our top priority at this moment. It has 

been a cooperative and bipartisan investigation, and I appreciate as 

always the opportunity to work with you to bring these issues to 

light. 

If the Ohio cases that Senator Portman just described represented the total number of unaccompanied children exploited by 

their sponsors, we would be justified in holding this hearing. As the 

Subcommittee has discovered, however, the unaccompanied children who were trafficked in Marion are only a few of those who 

have fallen prey to trafficking or abuse by their sponsors. 

I find the situation in front of us today unacceptable, and I am 

disgusted and angry. 

HHS placed one 16-year-old with a sponsor who claimed to be 

her cousin. In fact, he was completely unrelated to her and had 

paid for her to come to the United States as a mail-order bride. The 

minor, who had endured a sexual assault in her home country, was 

forced to have sex with her sponsor. She appealed to a post-release 

services provider for help and was ultimately removed by Child 

Protective Services (CPS). 

In another case, a 17-year-old was released to an unrelated ‘‘family friend’’ who reported living with three additional unrelated 

adult men. HHS released this teen to the sponsor without conducting background checks on any of the unrelated adult men with 

whom he would be living, without conducting a home study of his 

sponsor’s home, and without providing any post-release services. 

Last June, this minor contacted HHS to let the agency know that 

his ‘‘sponsor’’ was actually the son of a labor recruiter, who had approached the teen in Guatemala about an opportunity to work in 

the United States. Upon being placed by HHS with the sponsor, 

the minor was forced to work 12 hours a day in conditions that 

made him sick, literally sick. The teen ultimately ended up living 

in a home belonging to his employer, along with 14 other employees, before running away. 

Similar examples fill the case files reviewed by the Subcommittee, and keep in mind, we only reviewed a fraction of these 

files and found so many objectionable situations. We only looked at 

a fraction. Vulnerable and traumatized minors abused by their 

sponsors or forced to engage in backbreaking labor for little or no 

pay, while being housed in unsanitary and dangerous conditions. 

This is not just a failure of our moral obligation to protect the 

most vulnerable. It is a failure of a legal obligation as well. Under 

the 1997 Flores Agreement, the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act (TVPRA), and other statutes, HHS has responsibility for ensuring that unaccompanied minors are released to 

sponsors capable of providing for their physical and emotional wellbeing. At a minimum, HHS must make an independent finding 

that the child’s sponsor ‘‘has not engaged in any activity that would 
6 

indicate a potential risk to the child.’’ For many children, HHS 

failed to fulfill this fundamental responsibility. 

The Subcommittee’s investigation also revealed that HHS has 

failed to address systematic deficiencies in their placement processes, even after these deficiencies were highlighted by the Ohio 

case. In many cases reviewed by the Subcommittee, HHS failed to 

ensure that the relationship between a child and a proposed sponsor was even properly verified, failed to detect individuals who attempted to sponsor multiple children, failed to ensure sponsors had 

adequate income to support the child under their care, failed to 

conduct background checks on all the adults living in a sponsor’s 

home, as Senator Portman mentioned, and failed to employ home 

studies and post-release services to detect red flags for abuse and 

trafficking. 

In addition, the Subcommittee found that HHS does not even 

maintain regularized, transparent guidelines governing the placement process and has not established specific policies and programs to protect unaccompanied minors from traffickers—despite a 

clear mandate from Congress in 2008 to do so. 

Further, HHS has failed to fulfill its obligation to clarify its role 

in the UAC placement process with respect to the other various 

Federal agencies—and this is what really drives me crazy. HHS to 

this day is claiming once they put this child with a sponsor in Category 3, they have no more legal responsibility. Are you kidding 

me? And, by the way, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) 

kind of says the same thing. Well, that is HHS because they are 

children. Somebody is going to step up as a result of this hearing 

and take full and complete responsibility of these minor children 

that we have in our country. 

Nothing breaks my heart more than the notion that these parents and their children facing unspeakable problems in their home 

countries took a risk that every parent in this room cannot even 

imagine taking. They said, ‘‘Yes, take my child. I want this child 

out of this country because I love this child so much.’’ And they believed America was someplace that they would be safe and maybe 

have a future. And we have two Federal agencies that have abdicated their responsibility for the welfare of these children. 

Now, much of it was to try to get them out of detention. And, 

by the way, everybody needs to understand there are categories, 

and if it is a relative or someone that is easily verified as a relative, that is Category 1 and 2. But keep in mind, if somebody cannot prove Category 1 or 2, they put them all in Category 3 when 

you did not have to prove anything. They reduced the time of home 

studies from 30 days to 10 days for one reason: Get them out of 

detention. Understand, these children, as we will hear today in this 

hearing, are in caregiving facilities where they are visiting museums and they are playing soccer and they are getting three meals 

a day. What is wrong with keeping these children in detention 

longer in order to make sure that we are not placing them with 

someone who is going to illegally use them as child labor or in sex 

trafficking. The priorities here are all out of whack. 
7 

1The prepared statement of Senator McCaskill appears in the Appendix on page 57. 

2The chart referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 416. 

I am not going to finish my formal prepared statement. I will 

enter it into the record,1 because, frankly, I think it is important 

that all of us today quit thinking about what is on paper and think 

about these children and how hopelessly lost they are when someone shows up knowing that nothing is going to happen and says, 

‘‘Yes, I will sponsor that child,’’ and then they stick them in a trailer and have them clean chicken coops 12 hours a day, 7 days a 

week, for no money. 

We can do better in the United States of America. And I know 

there are not people at HHS or DHS that wanted this outcome. But 

because no one stepped up and took responsibility, that is the outcome we are dealing with. And we have to get it fixed, and we have 

to get it fixed now. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Senator McCaskill. Thank you for 

your work and your staff’s work on putting together a comprehensive report that I encourage everyone to read and for your passion 

for this issue. 

We are now joined by the Chairman and Ranking Member of the 

full Committee. I appreciate them being here. I would like to offer 

them the opportunity to make some brief comments before we go 

to the witnesses. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHNSON 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to commend you and the Ranking Member on instigating this investigation and this oversight. I share your outrage. This is shameful 

what has happened. 

I think you all know I am kind of big into facts and figures and 

root causes, and, Mr. Chairman, you asked how this happened. 

And, again, your investigation shows the detail of what went wrong 

within the agencies. 

I guess I want to in my opening comments here kind of pull back 

and talk about the larger cause or causes of these tragedies, really. 

I would first say that the first proximate cause of this is how we 

have been handling the crisis of unaccompanied children. What has 

happened is we have become more—it is being swept under the 

rug. Remember when this was a big issue a couple of years ago? 

And, by the way, we have the chart2 up here, in 2014, here we hit 

over 50,000 unaccompanied children coming in from Central America. 

But what has happened in that intervening time period and why 

it is not in the news so much anymore is we have gotten more efficient at apprehending, processing, and dispersing. And, unfortunately, we are processing and we are dispersing children into these 

horrific circumstances. So there is one proximate cause, our efficiency in sweeping this crisis under the rug because we are also 

sweeping the crisis under the rug because we do not want to really 

recognize what I think is the root causes of this surge. 

Now, I realize there are legitimate differences of opinion in terms 

of what is the proximate cause of that surge. But just take a look 
8 

1The chart referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 417. 

at that graph. In 2009, 3,300 unaccompanied children; 2010, 4,400; 

2011, 3,900. And then in 2012, President Obama issued his Executive memorandum, Deferred Action on Childhood Arrivals (DACA), 

which, regardless of what the memorandum actually says, sent a 

very strong signal to children and families in Central America that 

if you get into America, you are going to be able to stay. And the 

reality is, again, regardless of what the memorandum says, if they 

get into America, they are able to stay. They are processed, they 

are dispersed into some of these horrific circumstances. 

Take a look at the figures. The 28,000 that came in 2015, 3.6 

have been returned. Of the 51,000 in 2014, 2.6 have been returned. 

So these children and these families, they use social media. They 

communicate with people back in Central America. The reality is 

they know if they get into America, they are able to stay. 

So, again, I guess we kind of all breathed a sigh of relief in 2015 

that there were only 28,000 unaccompanied children. A lot of families are coming in here as well. But, again, 28,000 versus a few 

thousand in 2009, 2010, and 2011. 

Now, let us put up the next chart,1 because this is what we have 

to be concerned about. 

Again, the numbers actually came down in 2015. Look at where 

we are in just the first quarter of 2016. 2014, the massive surge, 

the crisis level, we had, again, a total of 51,705 in that entire fiscal 

year (FY). But in the first quarter there were about 8,600. We are 

already up to 14,000 in the first quarter of 2016. Why isn’t this big 

news? 

Again, it is because we have become more efficient at apprehending, processing, and dispersing, and we see the horrific results 

of that efficiency. 

So, again, we have to recognize what our policies are doing. We 

took a trip down to Central America and visited Guatemala and 

Honduras with Senator Heitkamp, Senator Carper, and Senator 

Peters. In meeting with the President of Honduras, one of his requests of our delegation was, ‘‘Would you please look at your laws 

and end the ambiguity in your laws that actually incentivize our 

children, their future, from leaving their countries and coming to 

America?’’ And, again, the tragedy is they come into some of these 

circumstances because, let me repeat it one more time, we have become efficient at processing and dispersing and sweeping this 

under the rug. We have to end that sweeping under the rug process, recognize reality, and change our laws. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Chairman Johnson. 

Ranking Member Carper. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. Thanks so much. My thanks to you and to Senator McCaskill for holding this hearing and to our witnesses for 

being here. 

There have been news accounts of late that certainly caught my 

eye and probably the eyes of some of you as well. The report said 

that the number of folks who are here illegally has actually begun 
9 

to drop, which almost seems counterintuitive when you think 

about, as we are mindful of the flow of immigrants from Honduras, 

Guatemala, and El Salvador; we are mindful of the President’s proposal to bring in last year 2,000 Syrian refugees, this year 10,000 

refugees. And yet that number of illegal immigrants in this country 

appears to be dropping. At first I did not believe it, but now I am 

convinced it is true. 

The question one might ask is: Well, why? Why is that happening? And as it turns out, if you add together the countries of 

Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador, compare them to Mexico, 

my recollection is that the combination of those three countries 

that make up the Northern Triangle may add up to 25 million people. 

Let me see. What is the population of Mexico? Do you know. 

Does anybody know? I think it is under 200 million. That is a lot 

of people. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Ten million just in Mexico City. 

Senator CARPER. It is probably close to 200 million. So roughly 

eight times more people live in Mexico than in these three countries combined, and there are more people going back into Mexico 

than there are Mexicans now coming into the United States. And 

that is why the net flow is actually dropping, and the number of 

citizens here is actually dropping. 

Two weeks ago today, I was in Guatemala with the Vice President and Secretary Jeh Johnson. We met with the Presidents of 

those three countries to talk about their Alliance for Prosperity— 

it is their version of Plan Colombia—which they have committed to 

implement to focus on governance, fixing governing institutions, to 

focus on security, corruption, lack of rule of law, impunity, and the 

last one is just to focus on economic development, how to create a 

more nurturing environment for job creation and job preservation, 

which depends a lot on, frankly, winning the war against corruption and criminal behavior. That is their game plan. They developed that. 

What we have done in sort of a counter-response is almost like 

Home Depot: You can do it, we can help. All right? They can do 

this stuff. It is laid out in their Alliance for Prosperity. And what 

we need to do is a number of things that are actually funded in 

the omnibus bill that we passed last year, about $750 million to 

support—not to give money to these countries, but the taxpayer 

dollars from these countries, that $750 million is not going to go 

to Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador’s Governments. They 

will go to other entities. It will actually focus on corruption, rule 

of law, courts, prosecutors, prisons, and focus on economic development and so forth. I think it is a smart approach. 

So as we focus here on a terrible situation which violates for me 

the Golden Rule, which violates for me Matthew 25, the least of 

these, obviously we have to be concerned and care a hell of a lot 

about what is going on that is shameful. But at the same time, we 

have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time, and part 

of what needs to go on is we need to help these countries, these 

three countries, which make up about one-eighth the population of 

Mexico, get their act together and turn themselves around as Colombia has. They can do it, and we can help. 
10 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Greenberg appears in the Appendix on page 61. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Claire. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Senator Carper. 

I would now like to call our first panel. Mark Greenberg, who is 

here with us this morning, is the Acting Assistant Secretary for 

Administration for Children and Families (ACF), which is part of 

the Department of Health and Human Services. He was previously 

Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy at the Administration for 

Children and Families. Before joining HHS, Mr. Greenberg was the 

Director of the Georgetown University Center on Poverty, Inequality, and Public Policy and was a senior fellow at the Center for 

American Progress. 

Bob Carey is also with us this morning. He is the Director of the 

Office of Refugee Resettlement at the Department of Health and 

Human Services. He previously served as vice president of resettlement and migration policy at the International Rescue Committee. 

I appreciate both of you for being here this morning, and I look 

forward to your testimony. It is the custom of this subcommittee, 

as you know, to swear in all of our witnesses. At this time I would 

ask you both to stand, please, and raise your right hands. 

Do you swear the testimony you will give before this Committee 

will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 

help you, God? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I do. 

Mr. CAREY. I do. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. 

Gentlemen, all of your written testimony will become part of the 

record in its entirety. We would ask you to try to limit your oral 

testimony to 5 minutes. 

Mr. Greenberg, I would like you to go first. 

TESTIMONY OF MARK GREENBERG,1 ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY, ADMINISTRATION FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES; ACCOMPANIED BY ROBERT CAREY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND 

HUMAN SERVICES 

Mr. GREENBERG. Chairman Portman, Ranking Member 

McCaskill, and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting us to testify today. I am Mark Greenberg. I am the Acting Assistant Secretary at the Administration for Children and Families, 

and with me is Bob Carey, the Director of the Office of Refugee Resettlement. 

One of ORR’s principal goals is to ensure that all unaccompanied 

children are released to sponsors who can care for their physical 

and mental well-being. The number of children that have been referred to ORR’s care over the last number of years has grown significantly, and HHS has worked hard to adapt to this rapid increase in the size of the program, bringing on additional staff, expanding the network of providers, and adjusting a number of policies to respond to the unexpected fluctuations in migration, the 
11 

needs of the children, and the challenges of managing a program 

that grew nearly tenfold over a 3-year period. 

I want to be clear that we view the Marion, Ohio, labor trafficking case as a deeply dismaying event. Child safety is a priority 

for us. We are committed to continuing to make revisions to 

strengthen our policies, to learn all that we can from this and our 

ongoing experiences in operating the program. 

As I explained in my written testimony, I cannot discuss the specific details of the children in the Ohio case due to the ongoing 

criminal investigation, but we will continue to assist the Subcommittee in its work. 

In the next few minutes, I do want to talk briefly about ORR’s 

process for placing unaccompanied children with suitable sponsors 

and then describe a number of steps that ORR has taken over the 

last year to strengthen our policies relating to the safety and wellbeing of children. 

Unaccompanied children are referred to ORR by other Federal 

agencies, usually the Department of Homeland Security. They are 

generally cared for when they arrive in one of a network of ORRfunded shelters while staff works to determine if there is an appropriate sponsor a child can live with while awaiting immigration 

proceedings. 

Under the governing law, HHS releases children in our care to 

parents, guardians, relatives, or other qualified adults. Most children are placed with a parent. Most of those who are not placed 

with a parent are placed with other relatives. We only turn to family friends if there is no suitable parent or relative. In all cases, 

when we make placements, we seek to balance the importance of 

timely release with safeguards which are designed to maximize 

safety. 

ORR is continually working to strengthen its policies and procedures and in the last year took a number of steps to do so. Let me 

quickly highlight five changes that did occur. 

First, for a number of years, ORR has operated a help line that 

had mainly been used by parents seeking to find out if a child was 

in ORR custody or for sponsors that had questions with legal proceedings. Last May, ORR expanded that help line so that it is 

available to children calling with safety-related concerns as well as 

to sponsors calling with family problems or child behavior issues or 

needing help connecting to community resources. 

Second, the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, 

requires a home study before a child is released in four situations: 

when a child has been a victim of a severe form of trafficking, a 

special needs child with a disability, a child who has been a victim 

of physical or sexual abuse, or a child whose proposed sponsors presents a risk of abuse, maltreatment, exploitation, or trafficking. In 

July, ORR broadened the circumstances where home studies would 

be used to include all children age 12 and under being released to 

non-relatives or distantly related relatives. Later in July, ORR further expanded that requirement to apply in all cases where a nonrelative has previously sponsored a child or proposes to sponsor 

more than one child to whom the sponsor is not related. 

Third, under the TVPRA, ORR must offer followup services or 

post-release services in cases where there has been a home study 
12 

and may offer such services for children with mental health or 

other needs that could benefit from ongoing assistance from a social welfare agency. In July, ORR began a pilot project to provide 

post-release services to all children released to a non-relative or a 

distant relative sponsor as well as to children whose placement has 

been disrupted or is at risk of disruption and is within 180 days 

of release and they have contacted the help line. 

Fourth, in August last year, ORR started conducting check-in 

phone calls with sponsors and the unaccompanied child in their 

care 30 days after the child’s release. The calls are intended to 

identify any issues concerning child safety and provide sponsors 

with resource assistance. If the provider believes that the child is 

unsafe, the care provider must report this to local child protection 

agencies and/or local law enforcement. 

Fifth, ORR’s longstanding policy had been to conduct background 

checks on other individuals living with a potential sponsor when a 

home study is conducted, and earlier this month, ORR enhanced its 

background check policy so that household members as well as 

backup care providers identified in a sponsor safety plan are subject to background checks in all cases. 

I have highlighted five areas where we have made significant 

changes. We discuss additional ones in the written testimony. I 

want to emphasize that this is part of an ongoing process for us 

of continuing to review our policies to strengthen our safeguards as 

the program has expanded. 

We appreciate the work that the Subcommittee has done. We 

look forward to continuing to work with the Subcommittee to 

strengthen the program, and we will be happy to answer any questions. 

Thank you. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Mr. Greenberg. Mr. Carey. 

Mr. CAREY. Mr. Chairman, I do not have written testimony, but 

I am happy to answer any questions. 

Senator PORTMAN. You do not wish to make a statement? 

Mr. CAREY. No, I do not have a prepared statement. 

Senator PORTMAN. OK. Let us start where we finished with our 

own opening statements, and we look forward to hearing from you, 

Mr. Carey, in response to our questions at least. 

Senator McCaskill and I started this investigation because of 

these public reports that HHS has placed a number of these unaccompanied children into the hands of human traffickers, specifically this case in Marion, Ohio. When we learned the details of 

those cases, we were shocked by the fact that HHS had approved 

these placements, they had done so without really verifying the 

sponsors were who they said they were, without noticing the applicants were trying to accumulate multiple children, without even 

questioning, for instance, whether one sponsor had adequate financial means who reported on your form that this person was making 

$200 a week in income, without ever laying eyes on any of the 

homes that children would live in. 

Here is one of those homes. This is a trailer you see behind Senator Lankford in Marion, Ohio, we talked about earlier. There were 

multiple children in that one trailer. 
13 

Worse, when a child welfare worker discovered that one child did 

not really live where he was supposed to live, the sponsor refused 

to allow any followup services, just said, ‘‘No, you cannot even 

check on this child.’’ And HHS policy was to say, Fine, you can 

block these child welfare workers who are on contract with HHS. 

Close the case. Do not do anything. That was policy. 

I have to tell you that when I heard those details for the first 

time, I thought it sounds like everything that could go wrong did 

go wrong. But, Mr. Carey, your Deputy Director in charge of the 

unaccompanied children program told our lawyers that, one, she 

was unaware of any failure to follow HHS policy in the Marion 

cases; and, two, that she was unaware of any alternative practices 

that would have led to a different outcome. 

So I guess what I want to ask you both this morning—and I 

want an answer yes or no—is whether you agree with those conclusions from your Deputy. 

So, first, do each of you believe that HHS policy was followed in 

the Marion cases? Yes or no, please. Do you agree that HHS policy 

was followed in the Marion cases? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I have been advised by staff that it was followed, the policy that was in effect at the time. I do want to emphasize, as you heard in my remarks and per my testimony, that 

we have made a number of—— 

Senator PORTMAN. So your answer is HHS policies were followed. 

Mr. Carey, what is your answer? 

Mr. CAREY. I was not at ORR at the time, but I was informed 

that policies that were in place at the time were followed for these 

cases. 

Senator PORTMAN. So this was based on policy, these horrible situations we have talked about. It is HHS policy that if a child turns 

out not to live where the sponsor says they will and a caregiver offering post-release services wants to contact the child and make 

sure he is OK, the sponsor can refuse those services and block access to actual child. Does that offend you? It just does not seem like 

common sense. 

I would ask, does anybody in the room think that that is offensive? Raise your hand if you think that is wrong, that you cannot 

even check on a child. 

[Hands raised.] 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator Portman, I do want to be clear that we 

are following the law that Congress enacted. Our reading of the 

law is that we do not have the authority to make these visits mandatory. 

Senator PORTMAN. Congress enacted a specific law to avoid these 

kind of cases. In fact, you just talked about it, and you said that 

if a kid is at risk of trafficking, you have to provide these additional services, and you did not do it. So that is just not accurate. 

Let me ask you the second question. Do each of you agree with 

your Deputy that there are not any alternative practices that 

would have led to a different outcome? Yes or no. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator Portman, I cannot speculate—— 

Senator PORTMAN. Just yes or no. 

Mr. GREENBERG [continuing]. For an individual case as to whether that would have been the circumstances—— 
14 

Senator PORTMAN. But, Mr. Greenberg—— 

Mr. GREENBERG. I cannot talk about—— 

Senator PORTMAN [continuing]. You are a guy who has concern 

for these kids. You have a history of working in this area. You do 

not think that there could have been a better outcome with alternative practices? 

Mr. GREENBERG. What I can emphasize is that we are continually looking at how to strengthen our practices. As I have described, we have taken a number of steps over this last year to do 

so. I cannot for any specific case say if this practice had been in 

place, it would have made a difference. We absolutely want to ensure that we have the needed policies and practices in place, and 

we welcome the Committee’s recommendations to us for additional 

ones that we should consider. 

Senator PORTMAN. Mr. Carey, do you agree with your Deputy 

that there are not any alternative practices that would have led to 

a different out? 

Mr. CAREY. We are deeply concerned about the well-being of all 

of the children in the care of ORR and do the utmost in our 

power—— 

Senator PORTMAN. But let me ask you if you can answer the 

question yes or no, please. You are under oath. We have asked you 

to come here to testify. You did not do an opening statement. At 

least answer the question. 

Mr. CAREY. The procedures in place at the time were followed. 

There are additional procedures that have been in place since that 

time. I would be reluctant to speculate what an impact on an ongoing criminally—— 

Senator PORTMAN. The Deputy says she is unaware of any alternative practices that would have led to a different outcome. Do you 

agree with that, yes or no? 

Mr. CAREY. I would be reluctant to speculate about what might 

happen in a case that is part of an ongoing investigation. 

Senator PORTMAN. Wow. Mr. Greenberg, I want to ask you about 

a particular policy you have heard a lot about, the Department’s 

policy about home studies. As I think one of the other witnesses 

here today will tell us, State foster care systems, which are a pretty close analogy to what you do, never put a child in a temporary 

home without laying eyes on the living environment. HHS performed in-home reviews in only about 4 percent of the cases over 

the last 3 years. That is information you gave us, 4 percent. 

If you would turn to page 212 of the Appendix of the staff report, 

you will see an email exchange. This is the appendix to the report, 

page 212. Do you recognize this email exchange, page 212? 

Mr. CAREY. The report has not been shared with us, Senator. 

Senator PORTMAN. We gave you copies of this email. Let us provide additional copies of the email. Clerk, could you please provide 

those? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Yes, and I am reviewing the email now, Senator. 

Senator PORTMAN. OK. You have the email. OK, good. 

[Pause.] 

My question to you is: Do you recognize this email chain? It is 

with you. Do you recognize it? Just yes or no. 
15 

Mr. GREENBERG. Yes, it certainly appears to be our email. 

Senator PORTMAN. OK. Let me put this in context. Last summer, 

ORR was considering expanding home studies—in other words, to 

actually go and look at these places like this trailer—and decided 

to require them when a child under age 13 is placed with a nonrelative. When that proposal came to you as head of the Administration for Children and Families, you wrote an email to ORR leadership raising concerns about it. Here is what you wrote: ‘‘I assume 

the reason for under 13 is that it is a smaller number for a pilot 

and that we will have the greatest concern about young children 

less able to communicate about their need for help. Right? But this 

is probably less likely to pick up the debt labor group.’’ That is 

what we are talking about here this morning, the debt labor group, 

these kids who were forced to work to pay off this debt. ‘‘Do you 

think it would just go too far to extend to all children going to nonrelatives?’’ A sensible question. 

So, Mr. Greenberg, I assume you meant here that kids 13 and 

older are more likely to be expected to work and, therefore, more 

likely to be forced to work off debt to coyotes and to traffickers. Is 

that right? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Yes, it is, Senator. 

Senator PORTMAN. And here you are saying that ORR’s policy 

change is not likely to help kids most vulnerable to labor trafficking. Is that right? 

Mr. GREENBERG. It is on that specific policy. 

Senator PORTMAN. OK. 

Mr. GREENBERG. I have noted a number of additional policies. 

Senator PORTMAN. You are onto something, common sense. So in 

light of the trafficking risk you identified, you sensibly asked ORR, 

‘‘Shouldn’t we be performing home studies on all non-relatives? ’’ 

This is on page 211 of the appendix. In response, ORR Deputy Director in charge of the unaccompanied minors program wrote back 

to say this: ‘‘You are correct about why we chose the younger children and risks associated with the older children not being included.’’ 

In other words, she said, yes, you are right, we are leaving out 

those kids who are most vulnerable to this debt bondage. That is 

exactly what happened. HHS approved the policy change without 

expanding home study to kids older than 13, despite you all knowing what you were doing for these kids who were in the kind of situation we are talking about here today in Marion, Ohio. 

So my question to you is very simple: Do you think home studies 

might have prevented the tragedy in Marion? If you had gone and 

seen multiple kids living in a trailer like this, do you think there 

would have been a different result? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, as I indicated—— 

Senator PORTMAN. Yes or no. 

Mr. GREENBERG. I simply cannot speculate as to whether a particular policy would have resulted in a different result. What I can 

say and what you can see in my email is that we were exploring 

circumstances under which we could expand the use of home studies. I expressly raised to staff the question as to whether we should 

be doing home studies for all cases involving non-relatives—— 
16 

Senator PORTMAN. And your staff apparently disregarded that, 

and they did not follow that policy. And I guess, if you cannot say 

this would have prevented the tragedy in Marion, then I think that 

just defies common sense. Remember, much of these sponsors were 

sponsors for hire by traffickers. And a bunch of unscrupulous people were trying to accumulate multiple children. That was obvious 

from any review. You did not even have to have a home visit to 

see that. If you had looked at the files, the same address appeared 

on multiple applications. One of the sponsors appeared on another 

sponsor’s applications under an alias. I just cannot believe you 

would not think that home visits would have revealed what was 

going on. It just defies common sense. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator—— 

Senator PORTMAN. I have gone over my time. I am now going to 

ask my Ranking Member, Senator McCaskill, if she has questions 

for the panel. 

Senator MCCASKILL. OK. Just briefly, before I get into my questioning, I want to say that DACA was not ambiguous. Children 

here 2007 or earlier. This hearing is not about DACA. This hearing 

is about those children who appeared at our border, who came into 

our country, and, frankly, no matter how you feel about the border, 

no matter how unrealistic your ideas might be about Mexico building us a wall, no matter how you feel about immigration, the bottom line is when a child is admitted into our country, the United 

States of America should be an example to the world about how we 

care for those children. Maybe they end up not staying here forever. Maybe they end up being deported eventually for some reason 

or other. But while they are here, we have an obligation that is in 

the foundation of what our country is to protect them. 

Now, in 2008, Congress directed several Federal agencies, including HHS—and you are a Harvard-educated lawyer, Mr. Greenberg, 

so I know you have read this law. It says very clearly, ‘‘These Federal agencies’’—Congress says this in the law—‘‘must establish 

policies and programs to ensure that unaccompanied alien children 

in the United States are being protected from traffickers.’’ It is 

black-letter law, Mr. Greenberg. 

My question for you: Have you established that policy or program 

specifically in response to this mandate from Congress in 2008? Yes 

or no. 

Mr. GREENBERG. We have established a set of policies and practices which are responsive to that mandate from Congress and that 

are intended to address the protection and the safety of children. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, Mr. Greenberg, first of all, does Mr. 

Carey work for you? Mr. Carey, do you report to Mr. Greenberg? 

Mr. CAREY. Yes, I do. 

Senator MCCASKILL. You do. So he is under you in terms of the 

organizational chart? 

Mr. GREENBERG. That is correct. 

Senator MCCASKILL. I was under the impression he was under 

the other Assistant Secretary who has not been confirmed. 

Mr. CAREY. No. I report to Mr. Greenberg. 

Senator MCCASKILL. OK. Well, that was not clear, by the way, 

and this is from staff that has been poring through your records 

and your org charts. So now we know. Can you fire Mr. Carey? 
17 

I am not asking if you are going to. I am asking if you can. 

Mr. GREENBERG. I, frankly, do not know. I would need to talk 

with colleagues at the Department, and I certainly have no reason 

that I would wish to. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, I do not want to disagree with you, 

but I have to say on the record that you have not established a direct policy or program in relationship to that. You have had drafts 

for years. How many years have there been drafts going around? 

You all have not been there that long, but you have to know, right? 

There has not been a draft—or there has not ever been a regulation posted for even commenting on this subject, has there, Mr. 

Greenberg? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator McCaskill, I hope that you would both 

recognize the number of changes and improvements we have made 

in the last year—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. You made a great improvement 3 days ago. 

I am not sure it would have happened if it was not for this hearing, 

but you did. I mean, no question, in the last 6 months you guys 

have gotten busy. My question is: What has been going on since 

2008? And why would you sit here and say the law does not give 

you any ability to protect these children when we specifically in the 

law in 2008 mandated that you do so? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator McCaskill, I want to be clear that our 

efforts to improve safety and do more to address well-being for the 

children in the program began well before July. When I testified 

before this Committee last July, I described a number of these efforts at that time. It has been an ongoing process. It will continue 

to be. We look forward to reviewing the Committee’s report and the 

Committee’s recommendations for what else we can be doing to 

strengthen our efforts. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, let me ask you a hypothetical. And, 

Mr. Carey, I would appreciate it if you would weigh in on this hypothetical. 

A 15-year-old Guatemalan girl is released to ‘‘a family friend’’ as 

a sponsor under Category 3. She does not show up for her hearing. 

What happens? Mr. Carey. 

Mr. CAREY. I cannot speak to the specifics of a case with which 

I am not familiar. 

Senator MCCASKILL. This is a hypothetical case, Mr. Carey. This 

is not a real case. You can speak to the specifics of this. You are 

not going to be able to avoid every question here. Let us try again. 

Mr. CAREY. Nor do I—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Let us try again. 

Mr. CAREY [continuing]. Intend to, Senator. 

Senator MCCASKILL. A hypothetical. A 15-year-old Guatemalan 

girl is given to a Category 3 sponsor, ‘‘family friend,’’ does not show 

up for her hearing. What happens? What responsibility do you 

have? 

Mr. CAREY. ORR’s responsibility does not extend to the legal representation or the legal presence at a hearing. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Would it make you think, since Congress 

said in 2008 you guys are supposed to be having policies and program to protect these kids, would common sense tell you that 
18 

maybe if this child did not show up for the hearing, their sponsor 

is maybe not being responsible? 

Mr. CAREY. Senator, our responsibilities with regard to anti-trafficking are put in force from the day a child arrives into our care. 

They are screened for trafficking. They meet with clinicians in individual and group settings many times over the course of their stay. 

Additional information is sought from every source available. 

Senator MCCASKILL. So the answer is no, you have no responsibility, you do nothing if she does not show up for a hearing. You 

are trying to say all these things happen ahead of time. I am asking you what happens when she does not show up for her hearing. 

Does anybody call the sponsor? Does anybody decide that is time 

for a home visit? Does that occur? Mr. Greenberg. 

Mr. GREENBERG. So in a hypothetical situation, if there are postrelease services being provided, then there would be ongoing followup with the child—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. I am asking specifically if the fact—we 

know that the majority of children who show up for their hearings 

are allowed to stay in this country. We know that a much higher 

percentage of children are not showing up for these hearings if they 

are in Category 3. We know that. You know that, right? If you do 

not know that and I know that, we are really in trouble. You know 

that, right? Mr. Carey, you know that, right? 

Mr. CAREY. We have limited information on the number of children—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. No, you have to be kidding me. You are telling me you do not know that? You have limited information? All 

you have to do is pick up the phone and ask somebody. That is 

what we did. 

Mr. Greenberg, are you aware that Category 3 do not show up 

for their hearings as often? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I have not seen information to that effect. 

Senator MCCASKILL. OK. Well, I could go on for way too long, 

and I do not mean to be so hard on the two of you. You have good 

hearts, I am sure. But you have to step back from this. You have 

to step back from this and look. What everybody is doing is doing 

this, out the door, we are done. And you know what? The Department of Homeland Security says, they say, ‘‘When it is children, it 

is HHS.’’ And you guys say, ‘‘Well, we put them with a sponsor. It 

is not us.’’ So no one is using the failure to show at a hearing as 

a moment of realization that somebody is watching this child that 

is not being responsible for their welfare. And you know what happens when that child is finally picked up? They get deported no 

matter what. So, of course, they are not going to come up later because chances are if it is a bad-guy sponsor, he is worried about 

a whole lot of other potential consequences in his life. 

So it is just when I read all of this information, I mean, I would 

expect you guys to read this stuff and have it all memorized before 

this hearing, what we have learned from you. And the fact that you 

are not aware that the chances of a Category 3 sponsor showing 

up is much diminished from other kinds of sponsors and that that 

should be a warning sign—and I want to know this: When, in 

fact—and I know neither one of you will answer this question, but 

I want it on the record. Here is the bottom line: She does not show 
19 

up for a hearing. There has not been a blanket of home visits. Or 

the sponsor says, ‘‘We do not want you anymore to look at us, we 

do not have to look at you anymore.’’ And she ends up being trafficked on Backpage, another investigation we are doing, for sex. 

Whose fault is that? And if you guys think it is not your fault, if 

you think you bear no responsibility for that, I think you are 

wrong. I think you are flat wrong. And I would like to see a turn 

here at this hearing and all of a sudden say, ‘‘We should take responsibility,’’ because somebody is going to take responsibility. If 

you need black-letter law, I can guarantee we can get it. But I 

think the black-letter law is pretty clear. I did not go to Harvard. 

I went to one of those public schools. I went to the University of 

Missouri. And I will tell you, when I read that law, I do not think 

I would have the nerve to say that Congress has not given us the 

authority to watch these kids. 

Thank you. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator McCaskill, may I respond, please? 

Senator MCCASKILL. Yes, you may. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, as I have emphasized throughout, our 

overall concern is absolutely with the safety and well-being of the 

children. We are implementing a law that Congress has enacted. 

It is a law that simply did not envision that there were going to 

be home studies in every case. It did not envision that there were 

going to be post-release services in every case. Congress can choose 

to change the law to make it be that way—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a 

minute. 

Mr. GREENBERG. If I could—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Wait a minute. Establish policies and programs to ensure that unaccompanied alien children in the United 

States are protected from traffickers. What in the law is keeping 

you from establishing right now, putting up today—by the way, 

your program manual, we cannot even see it, what you are supposed to do. It is not even available to the public. But why don’t 

you put up on the website today that you are going to have home 

visits every case when someone does not show up for a hearing? 

What keeps you from doing that as part of this policy and program? Why can’t you go back today and do that? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator McCaskill, I will be happy to go back 

and talk with our lawyers as to whether they believe we have—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, I would love to talk to your lawyers. 

Mr. GREENBERG [continuing]. The authority to do it. 

Senator MCCASKILL. You are a lawyer. You know better. You 

know you can do that under this law. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator McCaskill, I have had multiple conversations about trying to identify what our authority is and what 

else we can be doing. What we are talking about today is our understanding of our authority under the law. If the Committee or 

other Members of Congress want to work to change the law or to 

clarify our authority—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, I need your lawyers to get me in writing, and I would like it within a week, what it is in the law that 

prevents you from doing a home visit when a Category 3 unaccompanied minor does not show up for their hearing. What keeps you 
20 

from doing a home visit? I want to know in the law what keeps you 

from doing that. 

Mr. GREENBERG. We will followup and ask that question to our 

lawyers. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thanks, Senator McCaskill. Of course, it is 

much worse than that because you have kids who actually told you, 

told HHS, that this sponsor was not a family friend; it was someone to ‘‘get me out of HHS custody.’’ We have that information now 

from you all. We even have a situation where somebody said, ‘‘As 

soon as I got to the airport, HHS bought my plane ticket, the socalled sponsor took off and put me in the hands of other people.’’ 

They have told you that. 

So the situation Senator McCaskill talks about, of course, but it 

is even plainer than that. And, obviously, you have a responsibility 

here. I mean, you are not going to be able to say that there is not 

adequate legal basis for you to keep these kids out of the hands of 

traffickers when it is so obvious, when there was no check done. 

So, I must say I am very discouraged by what I am hearing 

today because you continue to try to evade responsibility when it 

is so obvious. Senator Heitkamp. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I just sit here and I wonder how we can possibly be having this conversation. How can we possibly not take in 

all seriousness the tragic situation of these children who are fleeing 

conditions that are unimaginable to us, coming to this country, believing this country has the ability to somehow protect them, but 

yet we sit here, important as what we are, Senators and high-ranking officials, saying we do not have the ability to protect kids, there 

is no law? 

Mr. Greenberg, when you looked at this gap in so-called authority, which I agree with Senator McCaskill does not exist, but when 

you believed it existed, did you say, ‘‘My goodness, we do not have 

the ability to do background checks, we do not have the ability to 

do home visits on a sponsor, we need to go to Congress and get an 

emergency bill passed to protect children’’? Did anyone in the administration have that conversation? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator Heitkamp, what I can say is that we 

have had very active conversation—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. Do you understand why we are angry? Because every time we ask you a question, you got, ‘‘How am I going 

to answer that?’’ Answer it by telling us what conversations you 

had? This was your obligation to protect these children. What conversations did you have, beyond what we see here in these emails, 

that would suggest to us that you put the safety and well-being of 

these children, in a bill that was passed to prevent trafficking, you 

put the safety and well-being of these children first? What conversation did you have when you saw this obstacle that you have 

been telling Senator McCaskill that exists in the law to change the 

law so that you would actually have access? Because I can tell you, 

as a former State official, if the State ran a foster care program 

under IV–E like this, without home visits, they would not be getting IV–E dollars very long. There is no State agency that runs a 

foster care program like this. 

I think we can completely appreciate the extent to which DHS 

was overrun. But going back again to Senator McCaskill’s point, 
21 

this was 2008. This was not the big surge. This is a longstanding 

problem. 

So what conversations—or let us ask you this from your opinion. 

Did you ever once think, ‘‘I need to get the law fixed because these 

children are not getting protected? ’’ You have a strong background 

and a strong history in protecting children. Were you ever personally troubled by your inability to protect children? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Yes. Let me say more to answer that directly. 

There was some discussion before about this should not just be a 

paper process, and for me this has never been a paper process. I 

can tell you that I have visited the Rio Grande Valley four times 

over the last 2 years. When I go, I talk with children, providers and 

their staff, and with advocates and I talk—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. And we all do. We have all been at the border, and I have spent time there. You came back from that does 

a great job. We are here to learn. So when you came back, listening 

to those children, what policy change, recommendations did you 

make at DHS to prevent this from happening? 

Mr. GREENBERG. What I would emphasize is it is very clear the 

way the law currently works that we have limited authority around 

home studies, and limited authority around post-release services. I 

have conveyed that very directly to this Committee in my prior testimony. When I publicly talk about the program, I make very clear 

the limited role that HHS plays. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I do not mean to belabor this, but, when I 

was Attorney General (AG), we have a boarding school, an Indian 

boarding school that we were hearing rumors about behaviors, and 

no one wanted to take jurisdiction. Everybody said, ‘‘No, that is 

somebody else.’’ And I just thought somebody has to take responsibility for this. And so we just stepped into the void. And so, occasionally, don’t you think it is smart, even when you see something 

involving the welfare of children, to step into the void, to challenge 

the legal ramifications and say let us do the right thing and sort 

it out later? 

The problem that we have here is that there are bad people in 

this country, there are bad people all over the world, and, I would 

be remiss if I did not ask the question for Senator Tester who had 

to leave. So I just want to say, OK, now we have this horrible situation which has been revealed that is the subject of this hearing. 

And it is Senator Tester and my understanding that the egg farm 

is still in business. Is that true, the egg farm is still operating? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I have no knowledge other than press accounts. 

Senator HEITKAMP. OK. What do you think happens when this 

all gets swept under the rug, when we are trying to really get at 

the bad guys, get at the people who do this, who think that they 

can continue—because these kids are invisible, continue to operate 

with impunity, to operate businesses that are nothing short of modern-day slavery, when we do not report it, when we do not have 

testimony from these kids because the kids are in the wind, they 

are gone? 

So my point, I guess, is that not only did we put kids at risk, 

but getting to prosecutions for people who do very bad things become impossible when we do not have the children protected. And 

so I would just say that I hope that what good comes out of this 
22 

hearing, which has been, I think, more contentious than any of us 

thought it would get, that you guys really take this back and say, 

What is the perfect system? Maybe we cannot always have the perfect system. But at least the worst State foster care system, can we 

do as good at the worst-case foster care system in the Federal Government when we are protecting children? 

I look forward to your recommendations on what we can do not 

only from a law change but also from a resource management 

change. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Senator Heitkamp. 

Senator Carper would like to make a brief comment about an 

earlier—— 

Senator CARPER. Yes, I just want to correct something for the 

record. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. I did an audible here when 

I spoke briefly earlier in the hearing and trying to explain why the 

numbers of illegal folks in this country was going down. And one 

of the reasons was because there are more people going from the 

United States into Mexico than the other way around. I mentioned 

I thought that Mexico had somewhere between 150 and 200 million 

people. They have 122 million people. If you add up the populations 

of Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador, it adds up to about just 

under 30 million people. So I think the difference in population is 

not 8:1. It is 4:1. But that helps to explain the changes in migration numbers. 

Thank you. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you. Senator Johnson. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Greenberg, according to your bio here, you joined the Administration for Children and Families in 2009. Is that correct? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Yes, it is, sir. 

Chairman JOHNSON. I want to kind of direct my questions to you 

because it coincides neatly with my chart where I date back to 

2009. Again, just to remind you people, about 3,300 unaccompanied 

children came in; the next year, 4,400; then about 4,000; then it 

started ramping up. 

I really want to just have you tell me what was happening within the agency during that time period. I want to understand the 

history of your manpower, how you grappled with this, kind of 

what started happening in 2012, 2013, 2014, when it really exploded. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator Johnson, although I joined ACF in 

2009, I did not begin to work closely with the program until I became Acting Assistant Secretary, which was late in 2013. I can certainly speak to what has happened since that time. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. Well, do so. I want to hear to the extent this has just overwhelmed your management capacity. 

Mr. GREENBERG. As I noted in my opening comments, the challenge for us was that the program did grow by nearly 10 times over 

a 3-year period. From about 6,000 kids, to nearly 60,000 kids. 

There is no question that in the summer of 2014, which was when 

I first testified before this Committee, we were facing a set of capacity issues about how to address the number of children that had 
23 

arrived and to ensure that we were able to provide adequate shelter for them. 

It is also the case that after that situation got under control and 

as the numbers of kids went down, we did look broadly to say this 

is a program that has grown 10 times in 3 years, what are the 

things that we need to do to strengthen it? Part of that involved 

significantly expanding the staff of the Office of Refugee Resettlement. Part of that—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. So give me some numbers on that in terms 

of staff increases. 

Mr. GREENBERG. I will ask Bob if he can say precisely, but approximately authorizing something in the range of about 70 additional staff. 

Chairman JOHNSON. From what level? What was the baseline 

level to what? It went from where to where? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I do not have the precise numbers in front of 

me. It was roughly 50-something full-time staff, some contractors, 

but it was roughly 50-something and adding another 70. I would 

ask Bob if he can respond to that. 

Mr. CAREY. That is accurate. Approximately 70 were added over 

the course of the surge. 

Mr. GREENBERG. One thing that we did was greatly strengthen 

our staffing. A second thing we did—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. So in 2009, we basically had about 50 people in this capacity, roughly, because you are not going to really 

change much. And that was to handle about 3,300 kids, 4,000, 

somewhere on that level. Then it started ramping up to 10,000 to 

21,000 to 51,000, and we took the offices from 50 people to 70 people. 

Mr. GREENBERG. No. We added 70 more—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. That is what I am saying, I mean 50 to 120. 

Mr. GREENBERG. That is right. 

Chairman JOHNSON. So another 70 people, manpower to handle 

literally 50,000, 51,000 more. 

Mr. GREENBERG. In addition, over that time we were greatly expanding the number of grantees who were providing shelter for the 

children. To highlight the other things that happened, we increased 

staffing. When the prior Director of ORR left, we made the determination to have both an ORR Director and to create a Deputy Director for Children’s Programs and to create a Chief of Staff to 

strengthen the overall efforts. We created a Policy Division within 

ORR. Senator McCaskill mentioned before the issue of policy. We 

were concerned in 2014 that our policy was not transparent and 

that it was not readily available, therefore we created a Policy Division. They have been working to post our policies on the website. 

There was also a reference to the need for rules. We are actively 

working on a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. It is our full intent 

it will be out this year. All of those things happened. 

In addition to that, I do want to emphasize that this set of things 

that we put in place around strengthening attention to child safety 

were things that we started doing later in 2014 and early in 2015. 

In addition to the ones that I talked about in my testimony, we 

strengthened the conditions under which we would do child abuse 

and neglect (CA/N) checks. We have put in place clear policies for 
24 

when criminal convictions will matter for purposes of disqualifying 

sponsors—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. I am running out of time. OK, good. 

Mr. GREENBERG. OK. 

Chairman JOHNSON. As I said, again, just from the outside looking in, we have obviously gotten more efficient at handling the 

surge. I do want you to address what is currently happening in this 

first quarter. The fact that we went in 2014 from about 8,600 in 

the first quarter—again, 2014, to remind everybody, that was the 

biggest year, close to 52,000 unaccompanied children. So that year 

started at about 8,600 kids. This year it is already up to 14,000— 

not quite double. What is happening? What has been your reaction 

to that? 

Again, we are not hearing the alarm bell sounding here, but I 

would think based on this Committee’s report, their investigation, 

alarm bells should be sounding. So what is happening here? Describe the efficiency of how we are moving these kids and what is 

being, obviously, lost in the cracks in our efficiency. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Between 2014 and 2015, the number of children 

fell from about 58,000 to 34,000. When I testified before the Committee in July, I talked about how the numbers had fallen. The 

numbers then began rising. Normally there is a spring-summer increase and then the numbers fall after that. The pattern that we 

saw this year did not correspond to that. 

The numbers did continue to rise through the fall and through 

December. Our January numbers are lower than the December 

numbers, but there is no question that these were higher. We have 

actively kept appropriators aware of those circumstances. We have 

been looking for additional—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. Well, OK. So my time is done. My final comment is the true solution here is let us reduce and stop the flow, 

and that we have to really take a look at the policies in our own 

immigration laws that incentivize this behavior, and listen to the 

President of Honduras who said please end the ambiguity in our 

laws that is creating that. 

Again, I would like to take the pressure off, but in order to do 

that, we have to really look to the real root cause and what is driving this and creating these kind of tragedies. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator PORTMAN. Senator Lankford. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD 

Senator LANKFORD. Gentlemen, let me bring up a couple things 

with you. The Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 

2008, here is the statute: ‘‘the care and custody of all unaccompanied alien children, including responsibility for their detention, 

where appropriate, shall be the responsibility of the Secretary of 

Health and Human Services.’’ 

The care and custody of all unaccompanied alien children is the 

responsibility of Health and Human Services, including their detention, if needed. 

Of the 90,000-plus children that are out there that have been put 

into care since 2008, if I were to ask you how many of those could 

you find right now, that we know where they are, how many of 
25 

those do you think you could find? Give me a percentage guess of 

the 90,000-plus that are out there. They were placed in a sponsor’s 

home, either saying this is a parent or a relative or a non-relative 

sponsor. Of the 90,000-plus, how many of them do you think you 

would know where they are if I asked you to give me a phone number or an address, you could tell me. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, I could not guess on that. I can tell you 

that we have the information at the time of release. If the child is 

receiving post-release services, we will have continued information 

after that. 

Senator LANKFORD. But you have no idea how many of them you 

could still contact today? 

Mr. GREENBERG. We do not. Again, this is based upon our clear 

understanding of the law and what we are authorized to do under 

the law. 

Senator LANKFORD. ‘‘The care and custody of all unaccompanied 

alien children, including responsibility for their detention, where 

appropriate, shall be the responsibility of . . . Health and Human 

Services.’’ So I am trying to figure out the ambiguity in that. It 

would seem to be not just when they cross the border in that detention moment, but it is the care and custody. Once you have 

transitioned them to a sponsor, is it your assumption that is no 

longer the care and custody, now the law says once you give it to 

a sponsor it is the sponsor? 

Mr. GREENBERG. That has been HHS’ longstanding interpretation of the law, and what I want to make clear is that in the majority of cases, when children are released, they are released to their 

parents. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. So let me ask you about that. How do 

you know it is their parents? What verification are you using that 

this is a parent? And how are you selecting where they go and, 

when it is a non-relative, where they are placed, who that is? Who 

chooses? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Under the law that governs us, our first preference has to be for their parents—— 

Senator LANKFORD. Correct, so how do you know it is the parent? 

That is what I am asking. 

Mr. GREENBERG. There is a process for verifying the relationship 

between parent and child. It will involve the use of birth certificates and other forms of identification. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. So let me back up, because I have done 

the same thing you have. I have been down to the detention facilities, which, by the way, before I came here to Congress, I was the 

director of the largest youth camp in the country. We had 51,000 

guests a summer. We were a very large operation. So when I went 

and visited a facility where there were 1,000 teenagers that were 

there, I am very aware of what it takes to do all the work around 

that. As I went and visited and talked to the kids and walked to 

the staff and interacted with the contractors that were there, I had 

individuals ask me later, ‘‘What did you think?’’ I left and said, 

‘‘That facility is exactly how I would have run my camp if money 

was no object.’’ Because there was a tremendous number of staff 

and buffers and all kinds of things wrapped around those kids. And 

what is astounding to me is how it runs the first 30 days that they 
26 

are in the United States versus every other day after that for these 

kids. And so many of them never show up at their Notice to Appear 

(NTA), and we have no idea where they are, how they are being 

cared for, what has happened, how they have integrated into society, and we are aware that when we are put into a home that is 

not a near relative often, they never show up for a Notice to Appear, and we are aware they just disappear. 

Now, the struggle that I have is if you are aware a high percentage is going to disappear or you are aware that we are putting at 

people at risk of trafficking, why wouldn’t we hold them at their 

initial facilities where they are being well taken care of until court 

proceedings and we know they are not going to be at risk in other 

locations and they can go through their court proceedings? And 

many of those are returned to their home country. They do not 

have a relative here, and so they are being returned to their home 

country. But, instead, they are being released into the United 

States to people we do not know who they are, we are not checking 

up on them, there has not been adequate fingerprints, there has 

not been home visits. There is no acknowledgment that we know 

where they are months later. But we are not detaining them as the 

law requires. We are releasing them knowing full well we will 

probably never see them again and they are illegally into our country. Help me understand that. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, I would first say that I agree that the 

services are very good in the shelters. 

Senator LANKFORD. They are. It is very good. 

Mr. GREENBERG. we are very proud of them. We would encourage 

any Members of the Committee, WHO have not visited, to visit the 

shelters. 

We have a legal responsibility to release the children both under 

the Flores Consent Decree that governs us and under the TVPRA, 

which says that children need to be in the least restrictive setting 

in the best interest of the child. 

Senator LANKFORD. So take me a year back, go a year ago last 

January. We have a child that did not come with a letter and a 

phone number, which many of these children are coming across the 

border with a picture of someone, with a letter, with a phone number, some sort of identification, and what you did not say before is 

what I know to be true: You are selecting these sponsors because 

the child has a piece of paperwork in their hand saying, ‘‘This is 

who I want to stay with when I get to the United States,’’ correct? 

Most often the child is walking in and saying, ‘‘This is the person 

I want to stay with.’’ 

Mr. GREENBERG. That will often be the case. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Not always, but often. 

Senator LANKFORD. But parent/non-parent, then you are trying 

to guess then is this really the parent, and if it is a non-relative, 

you are still trying to guess: Is this really a good non-relative? Was 

this given to them by the coyote, or was this given to them by some 

parent in the past? They arrive then. They are placed in that. A 

year ago, did that person that they were being placed with, was 

there a fingerprint done for that individual that they were being 

placed with? Go back a year ago. So the sponsor/non-relative, when 
27 

they said this is the phone number and the location I am told to 

go to, was there a fingerprint done for that sponsor? Yes or no. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, are you asking about a particular case 

or about policy? 

Senator LANKFORD. Just a yes or no. Do we do fingerprints on 

the sponsors on a Category 3 non-relative that this child walked in 

and had a phone number for, not knowing really all the history of 

that phone number, where that came from and that address, did 

we do a fingerprint on that person? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Yes, there should have been fingerprinting 

done. 

Senator LANKFORD. Did we do a home visit for that person? 

Mr. GREENBERG. A year ago, we would have only done a home 

visit if it fell into one of our categories—— 

Senator LANKFORD. If they are special needs, if we thought they 

were—— 

Mr. GREENBERG [continuing]. Under the law or—— 

Senator LANKFORD. Correct. So then let me ask a question. Did 

we verify that person was a legal citizen of the United States? 

Mr. GREENBERG. We would not do that. 

Senator LANKFORD. Why? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Because under the Flores Decree, we have an 

order of release, first to parents, then to close relatives, then other 

relatives—— 

Senator LANKFORD. Even if it is not—because no foster care in 

the country is going to place a child in a home of someone that is 

illegally in the United States, that we have not done a full background visit, we have not done the process, because there is this 

sense that if we are going to have long-term custody or care, if it 

is a parent, that is a different issue. We are talking about a nonparent in here, to be able to place someone in a non-parent’s home 

that is not a legal citizen of the United States or that there were 

people in the facility that were not legal. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, both you and other Senators have 

made a number of references to foster care. I want to emphasize 

the foster care system is different in a lot of ways. 

Senator LANKFORD. I understand it is. I was just looking for the 

question here. 

Mr. GREENBERG. If I could just say a word about that. The foster 

care system does involve licensing and training of foster care parents and facilities. It involves paying foster care maintenance payments to them. It involves a structure of States having caseworkers 

who are doing monthly visits to the child. 

Senator LANKFORD. We all get that. That is not the question. 

Mr. GREENBERG. I do want to emphasize that is a different structure than this one. If Congress wants this structure to look more 

like the foster care system, that is absolutely a choice that Congress can make. 

Senator LANKFORD. No, I think it is the decision on placement. 

I think it is not about long-term care and training and all those 

things. I get that. It is the decision on placement to say a person’s 

fingerprint, background check, we know this person does not have 

criminal records, we know that that person does not have a Notice 

to Appear that they have skipped, and then that is obviously going 
28 

to increase the chances that a child is placed in that house that is 

also going to skip a Notice to Appear, or the most basic thing that 

Senator McCaskill brought up over and over again is this issue of 

if a child skips a Notice to Appear, that is clearly negligence. They 

are not following the law. That is a clear issue that they were negligent in not delivering the child at that appropriate time. That 

should set off an alarm on this clear statute that says the custody 

and care of alien children falls on HHS. 

So I guess all we are trying to figure out is what are we missing 

at this point. 

Mr. GREENBERG. On the specific question Senator McCaskill 

raised, we will followup. We will go back to the lawyers and talk 

about that one. 

I want to emphasize for sponsors how different it is than foster 

care. We are not paying these people anything. The children are 

typically not eligible for public benefits. This is just determination 

of who should the child live with while they are awaiting their immigration proceedings. In most cases, that is going to be the child’s 

parent. If it cannot be the parent, we look for a relative, and only 

if we cannot find an appropriate parent or relative would we ever 

go to the family friend. 

Senator LANKFORD. All right. Thank you. 

Senator PORTMAN. Senator McCain. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCAIN 

Senator MCCAIN. Well, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for 

holding this hearing on this very important issue, and especially 

the abuses that are inflicted on these young children once they get 

here. 

According to this, we now have in 2016, just in the first quarter, 

14,260. Then if this keeps up, this would be a record-breaking year. 

Is that true? 

Mr. GREENBERG. If it does keep up, yes. 

Senator MCCAIN. OK. Now, let us talk for a minute about how 

they get here. They get here, 99 percent of them, in the hands of 

coyotes, right? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I would say often. I cannot say—— 

Senator MCCAIN. I am asking you straightforward questions. You 

and I know that the majority of them are in the hands of coyotes, 

right? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I cannot offer a specific percentage. I can say 

when I talk to kids, I hear a range of stories about how they get 

here. 

Senator MCCAIN. It is a well-known fact, Mr. Greenberg—— 

Mr. GREENBERG. It is often a coyote. 

Senator MCCAIN [continuing]. That the majority of children are— 

that coyotes are paid thousands of dollars, and they are transported to our border. I mean, Mr. Greenberg, we are talking about 

facts that are well known. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator McCain, I absolutely agree that it is a 

very common thing. I just could not say that it was 99 percent. 

Senator MCCAIN. Excuse me. OK. So they are in the hands of 

coyotes, right? The majority of them, right? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Often. 
29 

Senator MCCAIN. Mr. Greenberg, you are a very interesting witness. You and I know that the overwhelming majority of coyotes 

are paid to bring them to the United States. They ride on the top 

of trains, and they often fall off and are killed. More importantly 

than that, young women who are brought by coyotes are invariably 

sexually abused on the way. We know that, right? 

Mr. GREENBERG. We know that happens often, Senator. What I 

am saying to you—— 

Senator MCCAIN. OK. And we also know that these same coyotes 

that are bringing the children are also bringing drugs, right? Same 

cartels. Do you know that? You do not know that? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Often. 

Senator MCCAIN. It is more than often, Mr. Greenberg. It is invariably the case. And if you do not know that, then you are not 

doing your job. It is well known that the majority of children who 

come here are brought by coyotes, and it is well known that the 

coyotes are part of the drug cartels. Are you denying that? Yes or 

no. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, I am saying that I do not know that. 

Senator MCCAIN. You do not know that? You do not know that, 

Mr. Greenberg, with your experience—I mean, this is crazy. Everybody knows that. Talk to any Border Patrol agent. Come with me 

down to Nogales, and they will tell you how they got there, and 

they will tell you who brought them, and they will tell you what 

happened to the children along the way. And for you to sit there 

feigning a lack of knowledge of the facts is really insulting. 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, I have talked to Border Patrol agents 

and have done so regularly when I am down there. I do not want 

to speak for them, but what I am told is that often the coyotes are 

independent of the drug cartels. I do not have personal knowledge 

on this. 

Senator MCCAIN. Why don’t you have firsthand knowledge? 

Every other law enforcement agent does. All the Border Patrol people do. Everybody knows what the facts are. Mr. Greenberg, this 

is a very frustrating—OK. Well, let me tell you what is going on, 

Mr. Greenberg. Let me tell you. These are coyotes. They are part 

of the drug cartels. The overwhelming majority of children, their 

parents have paid thousands of dollars to have them transported, 

and many of the young women are sexually abused on the way. 

Those are well-known facts, Mr. Greenberg, and I do not know 

where you have been living, but you ought to know that, because 

those are facts. 

So then the question is: If those are facts—and they are—then 

why don’t we do more in the country of origin—Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras—where we can have these young people come to 

our consulatesor our embassies and there apply for this asylum so 

they are not subjected to this terrible experience of being transported by coyotes, and who are drug dealers as well, to our border? 

And yet the information that I have is that the State Department 

received 4,000 applications for the program and conducted 90 interviews. What are you doing down there at these embassies and consulates, when young people come to you for shelter from the abuses 

and threats to their lives that are posed by the chaos within their 

countries, which are, by the way, mainly bred by drug cartels? 
30 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator, the Administration does believe that 

having in-country processing is an important thing to do. The specifics of it are under the responsibility of the State Department. 

Senator MCCAIN. Despite the fact that of 4,000 applications, 90 

interviews were held. They may believe that, but they are not 

doing it. Has there been any increase in consulate personnel or embassy personnel to handle these cases in these three countries? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I am sorry. I cannot speak to that, Senator. It 

is best directed to the State Department. 

Senator MCCAIN. So you would not have any idea, even though 

your responsibilities are on this issue. 

Mr. Chairman, I cannot ask any more questions of this witness. 

This is the definition of ‘‘non-cooperative.’’ 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Senator McCain. 

We are now into our second round, and I am going to start, and 

I guess I am going to focus on the issue that I think Senator 

McCain has just touched on, and Senator Lankford, which is HHS 

unbelievably taking this position that somehow you are not responsible for these kids once they leave the detention facilities. You release them to a sponsor. Basically you are saying we have no more 

responsibility. 

You have taken that position even though Federal law, as was 

just quoted, says that responsibility for care and custody of all 

these unaccompanied minor kids rests with HHS and even though 

Congress has mandated HHS actually provide post-release monitoring in some cases specifically, and even those there is a judicial 

decree that governs this program, also known as the ‘‘Flores Agreement.’’ 

In response to Senator Lankford’s questions, Mr. Greenberg and 

Mr. Carey, your response was, well, the Flores Agreement requires 

us to get these kids out the door. That is basically what your response was. Let me just make it absolutely clear. The Flores Agreement does not authorize you to cut corners, period. It clearly states 

that HHS should place children with a family member or a family 

friend who is ‘‘capable and willing to care for the minor’s wellbeing.’’ That is in the Flores Agreement. That is a quote. 

It also says, of course, under the Trafficking Victims Protection 

Act that you are forbidden from releasing any unaccompanied alien 

child ‘‘unless the Secretary of HHS makes a determination that the 

proposed custodian is capable of providing for the child’s physical 

and mental well-being.’’ 

So this notion that you are going to hide behind the Flores 

Agreement or Federal law to me is you shirking your responsibilities. It is clear that HHS is not permitted to skip reasonable precautions that are necessary to make the determination that is provided for under law specifically and under the Flores Agreement. 

To me, I guess that is the biggest concern that I have after today’s hearing, is that despite our work, the work of others, the AP 

investigation, the back-and-forth we have had with you for 6 

months on this, that you continue to think that somehow your legal 

responsibilities do not continue after you place a child. 

Let me ask you this question: Has HHS ever terminated a sponsorship agreement for failure to properly care for a child and re-
31 

sume custody of that child? Have you ever terminated a sponsorship agreement? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Not that I am aware of. 

Senator PORTMAN. Mr. Carey. 

Mr. CAREY. Not that I am aware of. 

Senator PORTMAN. So out of tens of thousands of kids, you have 

never, including in this case in Marion, Ohio, when those kids were 

living in that trailer, with a bunch of adults, debt labor, you have 

never terminated an agreement? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Senator Portman, if I can respond more fully, 

our view that we do not have continuing custody after we release 

the child is a longstanding HHS view. It was the view before I got 

there. I am happy to take it back to the lawyers and ask them 

about it again. Also, if this is an area where Congress wants the 

law to be different, Congress should change the law. 

Senator PORTMAN. The law already says that, and the Flores 

Agreement already says that. Have you read the Inspector General’s report on this? It dates back to 2008. Have you read that report? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I would have to go back and check. 

Senator PORTMAN. Well, the Inspector General of HHS recommended that if there was any doubt about this, that HHS and 

the Department of Homeland Security should enter into a Memorandum of Understanding to clarify ‘‘which Department is responsible for ensuring the safety of children once they are released to 

sponsors and which Department is responsible for ensuring sponsors continue compliance with sponsors’ agreements.’’ Have you 

read that? Have you read that report? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I do not recall reading that, Senator. 

Senator PORTMAN. I would encourage you to read it. HHS has 

had quite a long time to think about it. It dates back 8 years. 

After these 8 years have passed without any final action on your 

part to clear up this basic question about HHS versus DHS, these 

kinds of conditions are present. This is the result, never having terminated a sponsorship, despite some of these horrific conditions 

that we are talking about today. 

I will tell you, you have missed opportunities one after another. 

I talked about that in my opening statement. But this is certainly 

the biggest one, just not taking the responsibility and not doing 

any kind of appropriate oversight. 

You talked earlier about the fact that you have these home visits. 

We have looked into this, and we heard that home visits were 

something that you did. You gave us some numbers on it. We 

looked at your own numbers, and we found out that it was only 4 

percent of the cases. Is that your understanding? 

Mr. GREENBERG. That is my understanding, yes. 

Senator PORTMAN. Four percent home visits. It is no wonder you 

have these kinds of problems. Senator McCaskill. 

Senator MCCASKILL. What is the most important thing you are 

going to do after this hearing? 

Mr. GREENBERG. After the hearing, I am going to read the Committee’s report. I am going to ensure that we share it with staff 

and all other interested parties in the Department, and that we actively discuss the findings from the report and what the implica-
32 

tions are for our existing policies and what we can do to strengthen 

our policies. 

Senator MCCASKILL. And would you put an asterisk on the todo list to ask the lawyers to put in writing why they think that you 

all have no responsibility after you place these children in particularly Category 3 homes? 

Mr. GREENBERG. Yes. I have that on my list from our earlier exchange, and we will absolutely followup on that. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Yes, because it seems to be the heart of the 

matter here. Let me just give you this factual recitation. 

On July 1, 2015, a Federal grand jury indicted four defendants 

in Marion. In October 2015, 3 months later, HHS officials met with 

the Subcommittee staff of this Committee. The staff of this Committee met with HHS. At that meeting, 3 months after an indictment, the HHS officials knew little or nothing about the children 

involved in the case or with the details of the placements with 

their sponsors. 

I mean, this lack of urgency is cultural, Mr. Greenberg. If I were 

sitting in your job and I picked up the morning paper and said four 

people have been indicted for trafficking children that your agency 

had placed in there are, I mean, red lights would flash, sirens 

would go off. There would immediately be a team of people to look 

and see what children were placed there, were there other children 

placed there, what were we told, did we look at the documents. And 

none of that had occurred. It was like, ‘‘Well, yes.’’ 

So when were you first notified that unaccompanied children 

placed by HHS had been trafficked in the Marion case? When was 

your first notification? 

Mr. GREENBERG. To the best of my recollection, I became aware 

when the indictment came out and there was press at that time. 

I can tell you that at that time I did talk with ORR about our existing policies and what else we needed to do to strengthen them. As 

you can see, and as you saw in my testimony, we broadened the 

home study requirements in July, to extend to circumstances where 

a sponsor was trying to sponsor more than one child or had previously sponsored a child. We built in, in September, a requirement 

for the shelters to look to see if a sponsor has been trying to sponsor more than one child, or if multiple children are going to the 

same address. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Had your documents not been subpoenaed 

by the Federal authorities at that point, the information about the 

sponsors? Had they not come to you in the investigation about 

what information you had about these sponsors? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I cannot speak to the specifics of—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Mr. Carey, did they come to ORR asking for 

documents during their investigation? 

Mr. CAREY. I was not at ORR at that time. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Would somebody find out the answer to that 

question? 

Mr. CAREY. Certainly, we can find out. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Because I am just thinking, as law enforcement, if I am the prosecutor that is presenting that case to the 

grand jury, I am going to want all those documents in hand as I 

prepare that case. So I would be interested to know if, in fact, they 
33 

had asked for the documents, because you all have documents that 

were signed and executed giving those children sponsors. And some 

of those sponsors ended up being felons. 

Now, my last question, because I am out of time and I know we 

have to get to the second panel. You have been struggling with trying to come up with a written policy for this program since 2008. 

There have been drafts of operational manuals, there have been 

drafts of policies floating around for years under consideration. You 

had these indictments in the middle of last year. Up until 3 days 

ago, it was the policy of HHS that it was OK if other adults in the 

house had been convicted of sex crimes with children. 

Now, can you relate to why I have a lack of confidence in your 

ability to draw up policies and procedures? How did that get 

missed? How did not looking at criminal backgrounds even of the 

sponsor who takes over if the original sponsor disappears, how is 

that something that in all these drafts and policies that are floating and, we have emails, comments on them, this has been around 

for years, how is that missed that you are going to place a child 

in a household with convicted felons where children have been the 

victims? 

Mr. GREENBERG. I agree that is a change that needed to be 

made, and I am glad we made it. 

Senator MCCASKILL. That does not give me a lot of confidence. 

Mr. CAREY. May I clarify? The policy as it existed did not provide 

an absolute bar based on a criminal history, but it does not mean 

that the criminal history was assessed, and if it was seen as a 

threat to the child, the reunification did not take place. There is 

now an absolute bar. 

Senator MCCASKILL. I understand. It was possible for them to 

turn them down if they did the check, but they were not doing the 

checks on the other adults living in the household. And, second, if 

it came back, it was up to that individual to decide whether or not 

that particular conviction for child abuse was OK or was not OK. 

Somebody said in the process of this investigation, ‘‘Well, sometimes people get accused of child abuse in a domestic situation,’’ 

like that was somehow—we are talking about felony convictions for 

child abuse. Hello. 

I understand that they could have disqualified him if they had 

run the criminal background checks. But they were not being run 

on many of the people that would have been in these children’s 

lives, and even if they found the conviction, they were not required 

to bar that person. That is the point I am trying to make, Mr. 

Carey, and I do not think that there is much excuse for that. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thanks, Senator McCaskill. I would add, as 

you know, that there was no criminal conviction that was too serious. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Right. 

Senator PORTMAN. Even if they did the background check and 

found out that someone was a habitual sex offender, HHS policy 

was there was no—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Automatic bar. 

Senator PORTMAN [continuing]. Criminal background that was 

too serious. 
34 

Look, I know we need to get on to the next panel. We have some 

witnesses we really want to hear from. I would just end with two 

thoughts. 

One, this notion that there is not enough resources, just so you know, in 2014 Congress appropriated $912 million at the end of 

2014. This is the period of time we are talking about; $200 million 

were left unobligated, not spent, not committed. That is about 25 

percent of the budget was not even spent. In 2015 Congress appropriated $948 million, an increase. How much was not spent? About 

$278 million. So this notion of inadequate resources, just so you 

know, is not an excuse. 

Then, finally, just to say we have laid out here today five or six 

specific issues that we would like you to take back, and I appreciate the fact, Mr. Greenberg, that you said you will read the report 

and that you will work with us to make some of these changes. 

Some were made this week. For instance, this criminal conviction 

issue was made on January 25. As I said earlier, that is progress. 

I am glad we had this opportunity to have the back-and-forth with 

you over the last 6 months. There is more to do, including clarifying this policy. I encourage you to read the Inspector General’s 

report from 8 years ago. These are, as Senator McCaskill has said, 

issues that have languished for too long without being addressed. 

And, unfortunately, we see that during this first quarter we have 

another surge. And we want to be sure that those kids who were 

abused, who were in servitude in Marion, Ohio, that their case can 

be an example not just to talk about at a hearing but to ensure 

that other kids do not fall into that same trap. And that requires 

you to do a better job of deciding where these kids ought to go and 

monitoring their situation. And you have every authority to do that 

under current law, and we insist that you do it. 

So thank you for being here this morning, Mr. Carey and Mr. 

Greenberg. We appreciate your coming to testify. 

We will now call the next panel. 

[Pause.] 

Thank you all for being here. 

We are privileged to have some experts before us to talk about 

some of the issues that we have just talked to HHS about. 

Our first witness is Tiffany Nelms. Tiffany Nelms is the Associate Director of children’s services at the U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants (USCRI) where she oversees the organization’s national home study and post-release service program for unaccompanied children. She has a background in case management, 

has worked on behalf of immigrant children and families for 15 

years, and she is a licensed social worker. 

Jennifer Justice, the middle of the panel, we are pleased to have 

you. Jennifer Justice is the Deputy Director of the Office of Families and Children in the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services (ODJFS). Among other duties, her office oversees Ohio’s child 

and adult protective services, foster care, adoption, and child abuse 

prevention programs. Thank you for being here. 

Finally, last but not least, we have Kimberly Haynes. Kimberly 

is the Director of children’s services at the Lutheran Immigration 

and Refugee Service (LIRS), one of the great resettlement groups, 

which serves unaccompanied children, among others. She has over 
35 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Nelms appears in the Appendix on page 78. 

20 years of experience in child protection and social work, including 

a consultant supporting a variety of refugee assistance programs 

within the Office of Refugee Assistance. We just heard from them. 

She has a master’s degree in social work and management administration and community organization, with a specialty in children 

and youth. Thank you for being here. 

Again, it is the custom of this Subcommittee to swear I our witnesses, so I would ask you please to stand and raise your right 

hand. Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this 

Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 

truth, so help you, God? 

Ms. NELMS. Yes. 

Ms. JUSTICE. Yes. 

Ms. HAYNES. Yes. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered all in the affirmative. 

Your written testimony will be printed in the record in its entirety. We would ask you, if you could, try to limit your oral testimony to 5 minutes, and we will have a chance for a little give-andtake. We may have some votes that come up, and we want to be 

sure and have the opportunity to have some dialogue with you. 

Ms. Nelms, we will hear from you first. 

TESTIMONY OF TIFFANY NELMS,1 ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN’S SERVICES, U.S. COMMITTEE 

FOR REFUGEES AND IMMIGRANTS 

Ms. NELMS. Thank you so much. Good morning. Thank you to 

Chairman Portman, Ranking Member McCaskill, and Members of 

the Subcommittee, for the opportunity to amplify the voices of the 

thousands of children seeking safety and protection in the United 

States and to share their stories. 

My name is Tiffany Nelms. I am a social worker and the Associate Director of unaccompanied children’s services at the U.S. 

Committee for Refugees and Immigrants, and for nearly a decade, 

I have worked with these children, and their perseverance and 

many successes motivates me to continue this work; but our failures to protect and adequately support them keeps me up at night. 

For over 100 years, the U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants has protected the rights and addressed the needs of persons 

in forced or voluntary migration worldwide and supported their 

transition to a dignified life. We help the uprooted by facilitating 

and providing direct professional services and promoting the full 

participation of migrants in community life. We understand the situation because we work with refugees and immigrants every day. 

Let me tell you about a girl who I will call Karen. Her family 

eked out a meager living by selling bottled water and candy to 

tourists in a popular beach town in Honduras. After completing 

only a few years of school, Karen was forced to work and help support her family. For many years, Karen’s extended family was targeted by gangs because they refused to pay a ‘‘tax’’ or ‘‘rent.’’ This 

tactic is commonly used by gangs to extort money from regular people. In exchange, those who pay the tax can live in, work in, or 
36 

transit a community the gang has claimed. When she was 10 years 

old, Karen’s uncle was murdered by the gang, a punishment for his 

refusal to pay this ‘‘tax.’’ The murder served as a warning, and 

Karen’s parents fled, hoping to fall off the gang’s radar. Their 

house was subsequently burned to the ground. 

At 14, Karen’s parents allowed her to marry a man in another 

town to protect and provide for her. Karen became pregnant, and 

after the child was born, the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse 

started. She did not seek help from the authorities because crimes 

against women and girls are rarely prosecuted in her country. 

Karen eventually left her husband, and she and her child sought 

safety with her parents who were living with Karen’s cousin. However, this cousin was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered by members of the local gang as punishment for resisting their sexual advances and attempts to recruit her. The gang left her body in 

pieces on her doorstep as another warning of what could happen 

to Karen and her family. The murders of Karen’s uncle and cousin 

were never investigated. This deepened the family’s distrust of the 

local authorities, and fearing she might be next, Karen fled to the 

U.S. border seeking protection, where she was detained and transferred to the care of the Office of Refugee Resettlement. 

In the past 2 years, we have seen rapid increases in the number 

of children, most of whom qualify for refugee status, who are seeking basic protection from violence, abuse, and neglect in their communities. These children’s needs are not being met in their countries of origin. 

Approximately 10 percent of Central American children who are 

extremely vulnerable qualify for post-release services after reunification with a sponsor. This means they receive three home visits 

in 6 months. Many of these especially vulnerable children end up 

on a waitlist, and some must wait up to 6 months after release before a provider is available to serve them due to capacity restrictions. 

There is no other system that places children, some that have no 

prior relationship or recollection of their sponsor, and provides no 

followup or monitoring of the child’s well-being after the placement. 

Children who speak some English and at least have access to informal ‘‘helpers’’ such as teachers, pediatricians, and police officers—connections within their communities who are trustworthy 

and will notice any irregularities or, at worst, abuse or neglect. 

These are connections that are not guaranteed for unaccompanied 

children with limited English proficiency often with no connections 

to their communities beyond their sponsors. These children are especially vulnerable to being abused, neglected, exploited, or trafficked by their sponsors. 

Post-release services are critical. They connect unaccompanied 

children to medical and mental health care, ensure that children 

are enrolled in school in compliance with compulsory school attendance laws, and provide children with access to legal representation, 

something that is not guaranteed for unaccompanied children and 

which significantly increases their likelihood of attending their immigration hearings. In addition to ensuring access to resources, 

post-release service providers monitor the children’s well-being and 

integration to their new homes and communities. These social 
37 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Justice appears in the Appendix on page 83. 

workers detect situations in which children are abused, neglected, 

exploited, or trafficked. 

For example, our staff has identified victims of labor and sex 

trafficking among this vulnerable 10 percent of the children that 

qualify for post-release services. Presently, post-release services are 

stretched thin, and the quality of these services is in jeopardy as 

we are asked to do more with less, increased caseloads and not 

enough time to meet the needs of the children in our care. 

Here are some recommendations about how to remedy this. We 

suggest that post-release services become available to every unaccompanied child. Post-release services work. The children served 

through USCRI’s program have a 95-percent attendance rate at 

their immigration hearings and similar outcomes for school attendance. 

We recommend that ORR expands capacity within the national 

post-release services networks so children are served in a more efficient and expeditious manner, reunited with family in a timely and 

safe way, and able to access the education and medical and mental 

health care that they deserve. 

And we recommend that they streamline reunification processes 

in consultation with national post-release service providers. 

You may be wondering what happened to Karen, the girl I described in the beginning. Delays and lack of adequate representation resulted in Karen being deported just after her 18th birthday. 

Despite our best efforts, we are currently unable to locate her incountry to confirm her safety. We do not know her whereabouts. 

We recognize that these children have fled to the United States 

seeking protection, and we take seriously our role as guardians 

while their immigration claims are reviewed and evaluated. When 

a child receives due process resulting in a deportation order, he or 

she must return to his or her country of origin. However, while 

these children are in our care, we can do more to welcome and protect the most vulnerable among us. 

Thank you. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Ms. Nelms. Ms. Justice. 

TESTIMONY OF JENNIFER JUSTICE,1 DEPUTY DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF FAMILIES AND CHILDREN, OHIO DEPARTMENT OF 

JOB AND FAMILY SERVICES 

Ms. JUSTICE. Thank you, Chairman Portman, Ranking Member 

McCaskill, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the 

opportunity to provide testimony to explain the foster care licensing process in the State of Ohio. I oversee Ohio’s child welfare system at the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services and have 

held the position since 2011. I have worked in the child protection 

system for over 19 years, and in my current position, I am in 

charge of supervising Ohio’s child protection programs, including 

protective services, foster care, kinship, adoption, the Interstate 

Compact for the Placement of Children (ICPC), and independent 

living services. Today I want to highlight some of the important licensing requirements for prospective foster applicants. 
38 

Ohio’s foster parent applicants must be at least 21 years of age 

and must have enough income to meet the basic needs of the 

household. They must be free of any physical, emotional, or mental 

condition that could endanger a child or impair their ability to care 

for a child. 

Everyone over the age of 18 living in the house must submit to 

State and Federal criminal background checks as well as an Ohio 

alleged perpetrator search through the Statewide Automated Child 

Welfare Information System (SACWIS). A SACWIS search is done 

to see if the applicant has a substantiated or indicated report of 

child abuse or neglect. 

A foster parent applicant must disclose if a person between the 

ages of 12 and 18 years of age residing in the household has been 

convicted or pled guilty to certain offenses or adjudicated delinquent. 

A fire inspection must be completed and training must be completed. 

The required background screens must be completed no less than 

every 4 years if foster parents are to continue to be licensed. Criminal background checks are required to be conducted by all 

Title IV–E agencies per the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). 

If an applicant fails to provide the information necessary to complete a background check, the person will be denied certification as 

a foster caregiver. 

If an applicant has a felony conviction for spousal abuse, rape, 

homicide, or sexual assault, he or she would be prohibited from becoming a licensed foster parent. This also applies to all adult 

household members. 

Ohio has a comprehensive list of misdemeanors and felonies that 

prohibit applicants from becoming licensed unless certain rehabilitation standards are evident. 

When we look at financial stability, we look to see that applicants have enough income to meet the basic needs of every child. 

A foster applicant must provide proof of income for the household 

for the most recent tax year period and proof of income for the 

most recent 2 months, as well as their utility bills. 

Along with these requirements, a foster care home study must be 

completed. This evaluation of the residence is completed by a licensed agency’s assessor and takes place physically inside the residence with the foster parent applicant present. 

Not all foster applicants end up being licensed. Some voluntarily 

withdraw, and some are denied a license. Applicants may be disqualified for offenses in their background check, or their living conditions may be unsafe. 

Although foster care placements are often necessary, Ohio works 

hard to identify relatives and non-relatives who are familiar to the 

family as placement options to reduce the trauma that comes with 

removing children from their parents. Relatives and non-relatives 

over 18 years of age living in the home must undergo all the same 

criminal background checks as foster parent applicants. Their 

homes are also evaluated, and an assessment is conducted of their 

ability to provide a safe placement. 

Once children are placed with licensed foster families or approved relatives and non-relatives, monthly home visits occur until 
39 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Haynes appears in the Appendix on page 87. 

the child is reunified or another permanent placement is found. 

Monthly home visits are conducted by a caseworker employed by 

the agency that holds custody of that child. State policy reinforces 

this Federal requirement to provide for the well-being of all children that have open child welfare cases. Visitation data is required 

to be reported to the Federal Government, and all States are required to meet or exceed 95 percent of all required visits. 

The approval process for children who are placed across State 

lines is defined in the Interstate Compact for the Placement of 

Children (ICPC). This is a statutory law in all 50 States and is designed to protect children placed across State lines so that they will 

be placed in a safe, suitable environment. In accordance with Ohio 

laws and policies, all home study and criminal background check 

requirements that I described a minute ago apply to these placements as well. 

Ohio appreciates the ongoing technical assistance provided by 

the Administration of Children and Families’ regional office, and I 

appreciate this opportunity to provide testimony here today, and I 

am happy to answer any questions the Subcommittee may have. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Ms. Justice. 

We will now go to Ms. Haynes, and I will say before you start 

your testimony, Ms. Haynes, a vote has been called—in fact, two 

votes, and Senator McCaskill and I have decided to stay through 

your testimony. Then we are going to ask you if you would please 

be patient while we run over and vote at the end of the first one 

and beginning of the next one, and we will adjourn the hearing 

during that period, then come back to reconvene. 

So, with that, do not be offended if we run out after your testimony, literally run out. Ms. Haynes. 

TESTIMONY OF KIMBERLY HAYNES,1 DIRECTOR FOR CHILDREN’S SERVICES, LUTHERAN IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE 

SERVICE 

Ms. HAYNES. Chairman Portman, Ranking Member McCaskill, 

and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity 

to provide the testimony about the efforts to protect children from 

trafficking. 

My name is Kimberly Haynes. I am a Social Worker. For the last 

5 years, I have been the Director of children’s services at Lutheran 

Immigration and Refugee Service, where I oversee our ORR programs for unaccompanied migrant children, which include Federal 

foster care, safe release support sites, home studies, and post-release service case management services. I have worked with unaccompanied refugee and migrant children both here and the United 

States and in an international context for over a decade. 

LIRS is a faith-based organization which has been serving refugees and migrants for over 75 years, unaccompanied children from 

all over the world for over 40 years. LIRS believes all children have 

the right to protection and family unity. 

As the only service provider that serves unaccompanied children 

throughout all stages of care, LIRS is uniquely situated to identify 

the gaps in protection, make recommendations to improve the sys-
40 

tem and U.S. policies and practices, ensuring the safety and wellbeing of these children. While I submit a more detailed written testimonial, I wish to express that the United States has a strong domestic child welfare system which contains many best practices 

that we can use to enhance and strengthen the current system 

used for unaccompanied children. 

I will focus my remarks in two areas: first, on protection gaps in 

the current system; and, second, provide recommendations to improve the family reunification practices so that incidences of trafficking or harm may be more readily identified, prevented, and 

mitigated. 

It is LIRS’ position that ORR is in the best position to provide 

the care and protection for unaccompanied migrant children. However, it is imperative that adequate protection practices are in 

place to ensure the child’s safety and well-being during and after 

release from ORR custody to sufficiently support the child and family’s ability to protect, care from, and integrate into communities. 

Over the years, ORR has continuously revised and expanded its 

depth of knowledge and practice in serving this unique population. 

As I detailed in my written testimony, one excellent practice is the 

provision of post-release services for certain vulnerable children. In 

recent years, however, with a higher number of unaccompanied 

children arrivals, ORR has revised certain policies in order to expedite family reunification and limit the amount of time a child 

would remain in ORR custody. ORR’s budgetary limitations meant 

that its capacity to provide its full range of services was limited, 

and children were spending weeks in overcrowded, unsafe Customs 

and Border Patrol (CBP) cells before being transferred to ORR. 

This situation was detrimental to their health and well-being. LIRS 

does not wish to see this happen again. 

LIRS has been serving unaccompanied children and their families for over three decades. We believe that our country can do better than releasing children to unsafe conditions due to the lack of 

resources. We need to treat these children as children first and 

foremost and provide the protection we afford all children while 

safeguarding their rights to family unity. 

LIRS makes the following recommendations: 

First, ORR should prioritize child protection and safety in reunification decisions over reunification timelines and fiscal concerns. 

We need to see these as children who are needing our safety and 

our protection and deserving family unit. 

Second, ORR should ensure that all children have access to some 

post-release services, at least, a minimum, one home visit after 

family reunification. These services should be trauma-informed, individualized, community-based, and case management services. 

Congress should also appropriate the necessary funds so that ORR 

can provide these services. 

Third, ORR should revise the sponsor assessment tool and sponsor reunification packet to ensure gathering of relevant information. This should be an in-person risk assessment of the sponsor, 

a sponsor needs assessment, and a sponsor orientation that promotes the child’s safety, stability, and well-being. 

Fourth, ORR should monitor the impact of changes to fingerprint 

background check requirements and revise policy accordingly. The 
41 

safety of children and screening of sponsors, including parents, 

must be more consistent and appropriately balanced. 

Fifth, ORR enhance their engagement with NGO’s and stakeholders in order to help improve their policies, or our partners such 

as LIRS will continue to work with ORR on improving policies that 

utilize best practices in child welfare services. However, if ORR is 

to fully implement these best practices, they need the resources to 

do so. 

Sixth, Congress and HHS should provide resources for a nationalized child abuse and neglect database system for child abuse and 

neglect checks so long that waitlists for multiple checks mean that 

children are waiting for reunification an extended period of time in 

facilities. 

Finally, Congress should provide ORR with contingency funds so 

that in times of higher arrivals of unaccompanied children or refugees, ORR can adequately provide the services required. 

Thank you for the opportunity to share reunification recommendations and best interests for unaccompanied children. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Ms. Haynes. And we appreciate 

the three of you, if you can, showing the patience to stay around 

while we recess subject to the call of the Chair. We look forward 

to talking about those budgetary shortfalls since they are not 

spending 20 to 25 percent of the money they are being appropriated. I do not know what they are telling you as a service provider, but I do not think that can be the reason. But we will talk 

more about that. 

Senator McCaskill and I will return, and we are now recessed 

subject to the call of the Chair. 

[Recess.] 

Thank you all for coming back. We will now reconvene this hearing. Senator McCaskill is on her way, and I am going to start asking a few questions, and then she will be here shortly. 

First of all, thank you for your testimony and your willingness 

to spend time and help us with our report, help us with some of 

the ways in which we can help address the problems that we have 

identified today. Each of you has a strong history in this area. You 

bring different perspectives a little bit, Ms. Justice more from the 

Ohio perspective and foster care perspective, and, Ms. Haynes, you 

had some very specific thoughts that you thought would be helpful. 

And, Ms. Nelms, we appreciate your testimony as well, particularly 

on the issues of home studies. 

My first question is about what we call ‘‘home studies.’’ I think 

they are incredibly important because it is the only opportunity to 

have a face-to-face meeting, and HHS, of course, does not perform 

many. For 90 percent of the cases, I think they have no idea if the 

sponsor is actually who he or she says he or she is. In other words, 

what they are alleging in their application may not be true. 

Over the past 3 years, HHS has performed home studies in about 

4 percent of placements based on the analysis of our staff. Can you 

tell us a little more, Ms. Nelms, about what you think about home 

studies? In other words, for those who are not following this closely, it is an opportunity to go and actually see something like that 

trailer or to see where these addresses are, to talk to the people 

face to face. Could you give us a sense of whether you think that 
42 

is something that as a care provider you would think is important? 

And if you did a home study, what would you be looking for? 

Ms. NELMS. Thank you for that question. The home study process has been changing over the years. When I started in this field 

10 years ago as a social worker, we had 90 days to conduct a thorough assessment, interview the child, interview the family in home 

country, interview the potential sponsor and any household members, and visit the home, and really do our homework. And this 

process has evolved over the last 10 years, and I think in response 

to the increase in the number of children, and also we all want 

children to be reunified as quickly as possible when it is a safe and 

appropriate placement and reduce their length of stay in detention. 

However, it should not be by compromising the safety of the 

child, and some of the changes that have happened, we saw home 

studies reduced from 90 to 60 to 30, and last month, the home 

study timeframe we have been given is 10 days to conduct a home 

study. And that is now part of a bigger assessment, so we are one 

piece, and the only thing at this point that is required is an interview with the child and the sponsor and a visit to the home. 

As a social worker, to maintain the integrity of that home study 

process, you really need one person looking at all the facts, corroborating the stories, confirming that there is a proof of relationship 

to avoid situations like what happened in Marion where the person 

presents as a family friend. And a social worker would quickly 

identify that in conducting a family tree, for example, with the 

child and the potential sponsor and somebody in home country that 

they are not able to match those names on that family tree. That 

is a very easy way to prevent something like this from happening, 

and this, unfortunately, is not something that we are able to do at 

this point with the recent policy changes. 

Senator PORTMAN. That is very disturbing, and in our report we 

talk some about this issue, the fact that, as you say, 10 years ago 

there was a very different policy in place, and it has gotten more 

and more strict over time to the point that you have very little time 

and that there is only, again, 4 percent of the cases now is there 

any home study at all. And you are right. I mean, some of the followup questions are pretty obvious. The family tree is one. Maybe 

it is like, if you were a friend of the family, where does the family 

live? What color is their house? Who is their neighbor? What is the 

mother’s maiden name? Just anything. They are not asking for any 

of that, as I understand it. 

And I would think, Ms. Justice, in your work, you ask those 

questions in a much deeper way and, you do not place any kid 

without going through an extremely lengthy process. But at least 

to know, Ms. Nelms, that this is the person who they say it is. 

One of the cases, as you know, was this young man who was 

given the plane ticket by HHS with the sponsor to go to a particular place where the sponsor was supposedly living, gets off the 

plane, and this unaccompanied minor or unaccompanied child has 

testified that the sponsor took off and literally, the traffickers were 

there waiting for the kid. And the sponsor had been sponsored by 

the traffickers. It was one of these just obvious situations that with 

just a little bit of testing—and then in terms of the home studies, 

you can find out information about potential abuse that Senator 
43 

McCaskill and others talked about earlier with some pretty simple 

questions and with some experience, as you all have, to be able to 

know what you are looking for. 

Ms. Justice, would you tell us just briefly, when you are required 

to conduct a home study, I assume that happens when you are 

going to place a child with a foster parent or probably any non-relative. What does that entail? 

Ms. JUSTICE. Sure. 

Senator PORTMAN. What do you do? 

Ms. JUSTICE. Yes, so our foster home study process in Ohio is 

very detailed and thorough. We study homes, whether it be with 

relatives, non-relatives, or a licensed foster caregiver. Certainly 

having a license as a foster caregiver is much more comprehensive 

in nature, and there is training required. But in all cases, we are 

going to visit the residence. We are going to walk through the 

home. We are going to ensure that there is proper ventilation, heat 

or cool, depending on, where you live. We are going to look at 

where the child would sleep. We are going to look at is there proper 

food in the house. We are going to engage the family and ask them 

very specifically how they intend to care for the child, what are 

their discipline policies, things like that. 

We are going to talk to the child as well and ensure that they 

feel safe. There is a multitude of things. We are going to look to 

see if that family has weapons in the home. Are they properly 

stored to ensure the safety of the child? 

It is a very well thought out process. We use checklists to make 

sure we do not miss anything, because we want to ensure the safety of all children that are in our custody, that cannot stay home 

because they are unsafe there, and so when they are in our custody, we need to make sure that they are as safe as they can be. 

Senator PORTMAN. So let me ask you this question. You are from 

Ohio, and you obviously picked up your paper 7 months ago, and 

you saw this incredible story that was happening in Marion, Ohio, 

just 50 miles from where you live, probably. I assume you live in 

Columbus. 

Ms. JUSTICE. Yes. 

Senator PORTMAN. What did you think? I mean, did this seem 

just unbelievable to you given your background? Or did you know 

the Office of Refugee Resettlement does not perform any of these 

sorts of checks? 

Ms. JUSTICE. Actually, I am unaware of ORR’s policies and procedures. Certainly, as a child welfare professional for my entire career, anytime I see a child that has been abused or neglected, it 

saddens me. It is troublesome. It is the worst thing that a person 

in my position can hear about. We are always striving to make 

sure that that does not happen, but there are bad people in this 

world and it does happen. But, no—and so, yes, certainly it is very 

disheartening, and I hope those children are better off now than 

they were. 

Senator PORTMAN. Yes, and we hope that other kids are, too. One 

thing we have found in our study is the investigation revealed that 

HHS does not know. We do not know how many kids are in situations like this. 
44 

And, Ms. Haynes, you talked a little about the national database 

and criminal checks. One question we have asked them at HHS, 

as you know perhaps, is how many kids have gone to live with a 

convicted felon. And guess what their answer is? ‘‘We have no idea. 

We do not keep track of that.’’ 

So even if they are doing fingerprinting on some of these sponsors and asking about criminal records, which, as you know, until 

this week you could be a child molester, a rapist, you could be a 

murderer, and there was no automatic ban to placing the child. But 

even when they did know what the record was, they do not keep 

any database of it. So there is no way to know. 

So tell us, I mean, I am not sure if that is what you are getting 

at when you talk about national database in your testimony, but 

what do you think ought to be done there in terms of at least understanding what the problem is? 

Ms. HAYNES. As you mentioned, I think there are a couple of layers of protection that need to be put in place, and that is a practical balance of CA/N checks across the board, no matter who is 

sponsoring the child. I think the reality is also that checks are having to be done in multiple States. We know the population. We 

know that they are highly mobile. We know that people move. And 

having multiple States have to run this take a lot of time. Therefore, that also keeps kids lingering in shelter situations rather than 

moving forward through reunification. 

I agree with you that it sounds like that there needs to be 

stronger policies and practices in place that sort of outline what 

kinds of convictions or what kinds of outcomes the CA/N checks 

have that would limit the reunification of children to potential 

sponsors. That is a concern, and, again, without a home study or 

other post-release, that is one potential opportunity to identify potential concerns. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you. And if you do not mind, if you 

could flesh our your national data base idea very quickly, and then 

I am going to turn to Senator McCaskill. 

Ms. HAYNES. Currently, CA/N checks are done by each State and 

individually by each State within that State. That does not circle 

or does not come and connect all 50 States into one massive database, so there is no way to run one name in a national data base 

that would allow us to look at any State that they may have had 

a conviction of any kind. 

Senator PORTMAN. All right. Thank you very much. Senator 

McCaskill. 

Senator MCCASKILL. We did not even get a chance this morning 

to get to all the problems we have with the portal at HHS as it 

relates to trying to determine somebody who has requested multiple sponsorships, somebody using the same address for multiple 

cases in terms of getting sponsorships. 

Let me ask all three of you, first, do you think there should be 

a continued role of the Federal Government once these children 

have been placed? And if you believe they should have a continuing 

role, who do you believe in the Federal Government from where 

you sit is the best equipped to take the responsibility of trying to 

monitor these children’s environment after they have left to reside 
45 

with a sponsor or family member? We will start with Ms. Nelms, 

and then go to Ms. Justice and then to Ms. Haynes. 

Ms. NELMS. Thank you, Senator McCaskill, for that question. I 

do believe that it would be helpful if ORR did extend their responsibility for the kids after reunification and currently, as they mentioned, the post-release services are voluntary. We share the concerns regarding that arrangement, and there are many situations 

where, by the time we receive a referral or there is capacity within 

the network to serve a particular child, they have disappeared and 

we are not able to locate them. 

And in some circumstances, we can make a report to Child Protective Services about that child or to law enforcement, but most 

of the time, those reports will not be accepted because people are 

free to come and go, and there is really no one with the authority 

to try to figure out where that child is. 

Senator MCCASKILL. So a 15-year-old child disappears, are not 

where they are supposed to be. Are you saying that if the child is 

not where it is supposed to be, then law enforcement—or a 16-yearold child, law enforcement and Child Protective Services in some 

States will say, ‘‘They can go where they want? ’’ 

Ms. NELMS. In many cases, that is the response we get, and 

USCRI serves children—right now, I think we are serving children 

in 40-something States. So we have experience in many cities 

across the country, and that is the response that we get quite often, 

unless we have had situations where if there was a trafficking concern, that they did a little more research into that case. But as Ms. 

Haynes mentioned, this population is highly mobile, and they 

move, and they can be hard to locate. And that is concerning. With 

the restrictions we have right now on post-release services, we do 

not have enough funding to serve the children that could benefit 

from post-release services. So they end up on a waitlist, and they 

could be released for 6 months or more. 

Senator MCCASKILL. This is a question I did not ask the first 

panel, but are the sponsors required to notify anyone if they 

change address? 

Ms. NELMS. They technically are supposed to, but there is really—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Do they notify ORR? 

Ms. NELMS. I would say in most cases—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Are they supposed to be notifying HHS? 

Ms. NELMS. They are supposed to notify the court of any changes 

of placement. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Immigration court. 

Ms. NELMS. Immigration court, correct. But on our end as postrelease service workers, we do our best to locate children through 

a number of ways. We try to establish contact with family in home 

country to see where the child is. But if 4 or 5 months have passed 

since they have been released from ORR care, it is quite difficult. 

Senator MCCASKILL. And, Ms. Justice, do you believe the Federal 

Government should continue to have a role after these children are 

placed? 

Ms. JUSTICE. Right, so as I stated earlier, I am somewhat unfamiliar with ORR’s current policies and procedures. But what my 

experience tells me is that when we in Ohio place children with rel-
46 

atives, non-relatives, or licensed foster parents, we need to continue 

to see these children to ensure their safety and stability. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Right. And, Ms. Haynes? 

Ms. HAYNES. I do believe ORR is in the best position to provide 

the care and custody and ongoing supervision and support for these 

children after release to sponsors? 

Senator MCCASKILL. OK. By the way, is there anybody left in the 

room from HHS? 

[No response.] 

No one? Not even somebody’s assistant to the assistant to the assistant? No one here works for HHS? 

[No response.] 

Well, that is really telling. 

OK. In your opinion, why have they changed the policy on home 

study to make it more and more circumspect in terms of how much 

time you have and how often they are done? What do you think is 

behind that, Ms. Nelms? 

Ms. NELMS. I think there is a number of factors. We saw the influx in 2014, and ORR I think is working very hard to expand their 

resources, and a lot of those resources have been directed to the 

residential facilities. And the expansion of these post-placement 

services, home study services, has not kept up with the growth in 

the population, and so I think there are ways the reunification 

process can be streamlined, and some children are going to good 

sponsors, and they do not remain in care for months on end. 

So there are situations where there are benefits to that, but I 

think that the largest part of this recent policy change is that there 

is a tremendous waitlist right now for children waiting for home 

study and post-release services, and the waitlist fluctuates between 

1,400 and 2,000 kids at any given time waiting for a service that 

one of our organizations provides because capacity has not been expanded. And so I think in looking to address that, children are released more quickly if home studies take 10 days versus 30 days. 

Senator MCCASKILL. So resources are not helping in that they 

are not able to utilize those resources quickly enough to deal with 

being overwhelmed by the great increase in numbers of children? 

Is that essentially what you are saying? Because, they have money. 

I mean, the Chairman said they have money. We have looked; they 

have money. And I know they have hired contractors to help with 

some of this. Always there is a contractor. So I am curious if from 

your perspective is it just they have not got the infrastructure in 

place and so, for example, changing the home study period of time 

from 30 days to 10 days? I mean, obviously, that is really problematic. Is that just a matter of them not having the capacity to handle these kids? 

Ms. NELMS. USCRI serves 2,500 kids a year through our home 

study and post-release service program. We are one of 11 providers 

that works with these children, and in conversation with many of 

the other programs, we are ready and willing and able to add additional capacity to serve these children so they are not waiting 

months at a time for our social workers to get to them. So I am 

not sure exactly where the disconnect—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, I would like to have staff followup, if 

the Chairman would agree, with the 11 different providers that you 
47 

just referenced and talk about the capacity you have and figure out 

where the disconnect is between the capacity that is out there and 

the fact that we are not, in fact, utilizing, that we are going to this 

third category of people that, if you cannot prove you are really related to the child, you get the child anyway. I would like to kind 

of drill down. Do you feel like there has been enough conversation 

between these groups and ORR as to the problems that are clearly 

present in the system as it is now operating? 

Ms. NELMS. You are speaking to one of the recommendations 

that we made. I think we could do a better job at collaborating, and 

many of us have served these kids for many years, and we know 

the challenges and the situations that they find themselves in that 

are very troubling. And it would be good if we could increase that 

communication to talk through potential policy changes before they 

occur—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Right. 

Ms. NELMS [continuing]. And have these negative effects on—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. Yes, you all should be heard from before 

they do—I mean, they have been working on policy and programs 

now for, it will be close to a decade, and we still do not have anything. So it seems like—it is not like they are rushing them to 

print. So it seems like to me there is time to talk to the people who 

are on the ground dealing with these children day to day. 

Let me close. I know I am over time, and I appreciate the Chairman’s indulgence. But let me just close speaking to the three of 

you. I am sure that all three of you are college-educated, correct? 

[Witnesses nod heads in agreement.] 

And all three of you had choices about your careers, and all of 

you decided that you were going to go into a line of work that is 

full of heartbreak and sadness. 

[Witnesses nod heads in agreement.] 

And I just want to thank you. 

Ms. NELMS. Thank you. 

Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Senator McCaskill. 

Thank you for what you do every day for the kids who we both 

represent, but also thank you for being willing to help us to improve conditions for kids going forward. I mean, this is, I think, an 

extraordinary failure. We just talked a little about the importance 

of home studies and post-release services. Again, look at this email 

that, without this investigation, we never would have known about. 

This is an email written by the gentleman who was here earlier, 

Mr. Greenberg: ‘‘I assume the reason for under 13 is that it is a 

smaller number for a pilot and that we’ll have the greatest concern 

about young children less able to communicate about their need for 

help. Right? But this is probably less likely to pick up the debt 

labor group.’’ Which is what this was. These were young kids. They 

were minors. 

‘‘Do you think it would go too far to extend to all children going 

to non-relatives?’’ They did not do it. I mean, after that question, 

what would the answer be? The answer is, ‘‘Of course we would 

want to cover these kids who are more likely to be subject to the 

kind of trafficking that we see of kids having to work off the debt. 

Their paychecks were withheld. I mean, these kids were working 
48 

12 hours a day, 6, 7 days a week, no pay, because their paychecks 

were taken to pay their debt. 

Finally, just to make this clear, on post-release services, which 

is what this is about in addition to home visits, the sponsor can 

just say no. Under current HHS policy, current policy, the sponsor 

can say to you, Ms. Haynes, as you go to knock on the door to say, 

‘‘Just checking to see how this young man or young woman is 

doing, to see whether what is on this application is still valid,’’ they 

can say, ‘‘Take a hike.’’ And your job is then to report back to HHS, 

‘‘Case closed.’’ That is what they ask you to do. 

So, yes, there has been some progress made, as I said—we appreciate that—including this pilot program, but it is not a matter of 

resources. We have been able to go through the appropriations 

process and look, and it is not just recent. During the time period 

we are talking about, 2014, they did not spend 20, 25 percent of 

their budget. It is a matter of commitment, and it is a matter of 

organizing that Department in a way to handle this big influx. I 

mean, it is not a mystery that this is going to continue to be an 

issue. 

So Senator McCaskill and I want your continued input because 

we want to be sure that one of two things happen: Either HHS 

makes further progress, gets its act together, follows, again, recommendations that Senator McCaskill says have been out there for 

almost a decade, puts together a plan, working with DHS and others to ensure we know who is responsible for these kids. This Flores Agreement that they talked about as a way to get out from 

their responsibility, it does not limit their ability to take care of 

these kids. In fact, it insists that these kids are taken care of. It 

says to a family member or a family friend ‘‘who is capable and 

willing to care for the minor’s well-being.’’ That is in it. The legislation Senator McCaskill talked about earlier, it specifically says ‘‘capable of providing for the children’s physical and mental wellbeing.’’ 

So we think that they have the authority to do it, but if they are 

not going to take care of these kids, protect them as the law provides, then we are going to look at additional legislation that 

makes it absolutely clear, or other ways, perhaps through the appropriations process, to deal with this. So we want your continued 

input. We know this is a tough issue. We know this is not going 

to be easy to address. We know from the first quarter results that 

this is an issue that is likely to increase pressure on ORR. But, 

boy, we have revealed so many failures here, including lack of consequences. You talk about the fact that they are supposed to tell 

HHS that they changed addresses. I would ask you, Ms. Haynes 

and Ms. Nelms, do you think there is any enforcement of that, any 

consequences? Not based on our study. Zero. No accountability. 

So we have an opportunity here to make a difference in the lives 

of many of these children going forward, and we will look forward 

to working with you to do that. 

I want to thank Senator McCaskill for being a great partner on 

this. It has been heartbreaking. As she says, it is a tough issue. 

But it also an interesting challenge for all of us to say, regardless 

of how we feel about the immigration policy, and there are big differences of opinion on that—I expressed earlier some of my con-
49 

cerns about that Executive Order (EO). But when these kids are 

here, when they are in the custody of the U.S. Government, they 

cannot end up in that trailer, working 12 hours a day as minors, 

6, 7 days a week, with no pay. It cannot happen, not in this country. 

So thank you, Senator McCaskill, thanks to your staff. The staff 

have worked really hard on this, and I want to particularly single 

out Rachael Tucker of my staff for her remarkable work on this. 

And I want to thank you all for being here today to share your testimony and your commitment to continue to work with us on this 

issue. 

The hearing record will remain open for 15 days for any additional comments or questions by any of the Subcommittee members. And with that, this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 1:06 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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Æ