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98–571 2016

A REVIEW OF THE PRESIDENT’S FISCAL YEAR 

2016 BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE 

DEPARTMENT OF LABOR’S VETERAN 

EMPLOYMENT AND TRAINING SERVICE (VETS) 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC 

OPPORTUNITY 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2015 

Serial No. 114–8 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 


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COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

JEFF MILLER, Florida, Chairman 

DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado 

GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida, Vice-Chairman 

DAVID P. ROE, Tennessee 

DAN BENISHEK, Michigan 

TIM HUELSKAMP, Kansas 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio 

JACKIE WALORSKI, Indiana 

RALPH ABRAHAM, Louisiana 

LEE ZELDIN, New York 

RYAN COSTELLO, Pennsylvania 

AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American 

Samoa 

MIKE BOST, Illinois 

CORRINE BROWN, Florida, Ranking 

Minority Member 

MARK TAKANO, California 

JULIA BROWNLEY, California 

DINA TITUS, Nevada 

RAUL RUIZ, California 

ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire 

BETO O’ROURKE, Texas 

KATHLEEN RICE, New York 

TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

JON TOWERS, Staff Director 

DON PHILLIPS, Democratic Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY 

BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio, Chairman 

LEE ZELDIN, New York 

AMATA RADEWAGEN, American Samoa 

RYAN COSTELLO, Pennsylvania 

MIKE BOST, Illinois 

MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 

Member 

DINA TITUS, Nevada 

AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, New 

York 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of rule XI of the Rules of the House, public hearing records 

of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs are also published in electronic form. The printed 

hearing record remains the official version. Because electronic submissions are used to 

prepare both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process of converting 

between various electronic formats may introduce unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the current publication process and should diminish as the process 

is further refined. 


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C O N T E N T S 

Thursday, February 12, 2015 

Page 

A Review of the President’s Fiscal Year 2016 Budget Request for the Department of Labor’s Veteran Employment and Training Service (VETS) .............. 1 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Brad Wenstrup, Chairman ...................................................................................... 1 

Prepared Statement of Chairman Brad Wenstrup ........................................ 29 

Mark Takano, Ranking Member ............................................................................ 3 

WITNESSES 

Ms. Teresa W. Gerton, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Veterans’ Employment 

and Training Service, U.S. Department of Labor .............................................. 4 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 31 

Mr. Davy G. Leghorn, Assistant Director, The Veteran Education and Employment Commission, The American Legion ................................................... 13 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 47 

Mr. Rick Weidman, Executive Director, Government Affairs, VVA .................... 15 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 51 

Mr. Paul R. Varela, Assistant National Legislative Director, DAV .................... 17 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 61 

FOR THE RECORD 

Question and Responses, From: Paul Varela, DAV .............................................. 67 


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A REVIEW OF THE PRESIDENT’S FISCAL YEAR 

2016 BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR’S VETERAN EMPLOYMENT 

AND TRAINING SERVICE (VETS) 

Thursday, February 12, 2015 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS, 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY, 

Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 1:59 p.m., in Room 

334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Brad Wenstrup, [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Wenstrup, Zeldin, Costello, 

Radewagen, Bost, Takano, Titus, Rice, McNerney. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN BRAD WENSTRUP 

Dr. WENSTRUP. I want to welcome you all to the Subcommittee 

on Economic Opportunity’s hearing today entitled A Review of the 

President’s Fiscal Year 2016 Budget Request for the Department of 

Labor’s Veteran Employment and Training Services, otherwise 

known as VETS. 

Just to say up front, I apologize if we may have to break to go 

to votes, but I thought we would get underway. 

DoL’s VETS or Veteran Employment and Training Services manages several programs for servicemembers and veterans alike. 

Within VETS is the Jobs for Veterans State Grant Program which 

funds Disabled Veterans’ Outreach Program specialists, DVOPs, 

and local veterans’ employment representatives, LVERs. 

There is also the Homeless Veteran Retraining Program which 

provides grants to providers for job training services and standdowns for homeless veterans, the employment workshop portion of 

the Transition Assistance Program, TAP, enforcement of the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act, 

USERRA, and the promotion and outreach for veterans’ hiring 

throughout the country and Federal Government, these are all very 

critical services and they are all vital to our servicemembers’ and 

veterans’ well-being after they leave active duty. 

As more and more men and women are returning from deployments or separating from the military, it is imperative that we 

place a focus on these individuals and the services that we provide 

to them through VETS programs while also helping veterans of 

past conflicts who face underemployment and unemployment 

issues. 


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Unfortunately for years, it has been clear that senior leaders at 

the Department of Labor do not put the focus that is needed on the 

Veterans’ Employment and Training Service. And to be quite frank, 

many in the veterans’ community, and we will hear from them 

next, have said over and over again that more often than not, DoL 

has ignored the agency altogether. 

Now, this is not just a current issue and it is not a political one. 

This seems to have been a trend throughout many administrations 

regardless of party. I know we can all agree that the country’s veterans deserve to be the top priority, yet I worry that DoL does not 

always prioritize and coordinate their services for veterans as well 

as they could and should. 

The President’s fiscal year 2016 budget for the VETS Program is 

once again basically flatlined while the rest of the department is 

not. The budget as a tool is the ultimate list of an administration’s 

priorities and it is clear where DoL’s true priorities lie. 

In addition to reviewing the President’s proposed budget for 

VETS, I also believe today’s hearing is an important opportunity to 

examine the Department of Labor’s ability to measure long-term 

outcomes and the department’s efforts to coordinate with the Department of Veterans Affairs and the efficiency of the Jobs for Veterans State Grant and VETS State Program. 

JVSG which funds DVOPs and LVERs has been a constant concern of the subcommittee over the years and time and time again, 

we have heard concerns from the VSO community on the outreach 

or lack thereof that these DVOPs and LVERs are doing to help veterans find jobs. 

What is truly upsetting is that despite spending millions and 

millions of dollars on this program over the years, VETS is still unable to accurately track if the services provided by DVOPs and 

LVERs led to a veteran finding meaningful employment. Results 

matter. 

Reading through testimony for today’s hearings and previous 

hearings held by this subcommittee, it is clear that VSOs and other 

stakeholders are ready for a change, a concrete change to bring better coordination between DoL and VA, better accountability and efficiency within VETS programs, and better data to show what 

VETS is doing to provide positive long-term outcomes for our Nation’s veterans. 

We have been told by VETS time and time again that this time 

it will be different and this time they have a seat at the table at 

the Department of Labor, but it doesn’t seem that anything is ever 

different. As the old saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing 

the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. 

So in this vein, it appears that many are pushing to create a 

fourth administration at VA and move VETS out of DoL to VA, a 

concept that has been discussed and included in legislation in previous Congresses. 

I look forward to hearing more about this proposal and discussion by the VSOs as well as other avenues we can explore to improve employment opportunities and consistency of services provided by DoL and the State Grant Program across the country. 


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Before I turn it over to the ranking member, Mr. Takano, I just 

want to reiterate that I believe that the new senior leadership 

team at VETS is trying to turn the ship around and by and large, 

the employees of VETS do good work. But they are only a small 

piece of the puzzle at an agency as large as DoL. 

The problem is that no matter how small of a player VETS is 

within the larger mission of the department, the services they provide to our Nation’s veterans are too important to be overlooked. 

And that is our challenge here today and I look forward to hearing 

from everyone about how we can improve the performance and 

focus of the program. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN BRAD WENSTRUP AP- PEARS IN THE APPENDIX] 

I now recognize Ranking Member Takano for his opening comments. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER MARK TAKANO 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you. Thank you to our witnesses and welcome to them all. 

I am happy to say that the job market for veterans and other 

Americans is continuously improving. We are now in our 59th consecutive month of private sector job growth. Eleven point eight million jobs have been added to our economy in the longest uninterrupted period of private sector job creation in our history. 

However, we must not confuse positive employment numbers 

with the need to provide our servicemembers with a successful 

transition from the military. We must remain vigilant in ensuring 

that we are providing our servicemembers with the tools and training that they need to successfully navigate this transition. 

Let me be clear. A servicemember’s transition is incredibly challenging. I would ask you to consider a servicemember that joins the 

military at 18 years of age, deploys to a war zone on numerous occasions, and four years later at the age of 22 is leaving the service. 

She has received a great deal of training, had significant life experiences, some good, some bad. She may or may not have physical 

disabilities. She probably has never written a resume. Short of a 

job in high school, she has never had an interview. 

She has financial needs. She likely has a car, cell phone, maybe 

a mortgage, maybe a child. She will most likely go home or stay 

at the location of her last duty station. More likely than not, she 

will become unemployed. 

So while our country’s economic situation is arguably better than 

it has ever been, if transitioning servicemembers are having trouble finding jobs, there is a problem. 

Veterans spend three days in employment workshops designed 

by the Department of Labor prior to exiting the military, but their 

effectiveness is unclear. 

I am pleased to hear that the Administration has created the 

military life cycle to provide continuous touch points in a 

servicemember’s career to prepare them for this transition. How it 

is integrated with the Veterans Administration for a seamless transition is also unclear. 

The bottom line remains more needs to be done. With regards to 

the bottom line, DoL-VETS budgets largely reflect the continued 


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request to fund states to hire employees that focus on assisting veterans with employment. 

While laudable in theory, I remain concerned that the impact 

this resource provides is unclear. I encourage DoL VETS to strongly consider what its intended outcomes are and then determine 

how you can measure those outcomes to drive those results. 

I look forward to working with DoL VETS in moving forward. 

You have a substantial budget to help veterans transition and find 

employment. I look forward to hearing on how you plan to make 

great things happen for veterans with this substantial budget. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. I thank the ranking member. 

And I now welcome our only witness on the first panel to the witness table. We do welcome Ms. Teresa Gerton, the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy, Veterans’ Employment and Training Services, U.S. Department of Labor. 

Unfortunately, they have called votes and there is about seven 

minutes left on the vote. So at this time, we will break and come 

back. And I apologize for the inconvenience to everyone. And we 

will see you back after votes. 

[Recess.] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, again, we welcome Ms. Teresa Gerton, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy, Veterans’ Employment and 

Training Services, U.S. Department of Labor. 

Thank you for being here with us today, Ms. Gerton. Thank you 

for your service to veterans and for your service to our country and 

uniform as well. It is appreciated. 

You are now recognized for five minutes for your opening statement. 

STATEMENT OF TERESA W. GERTON 

Ms. GERTON. well, Good afternoon, Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking 

Member Takano, and distinguished Members of the subcommittee. 

Thank you for the opportunity to participate in today’s hearing. 

I appreciate the invitation to discuss the Department’s fiscal year 

2016 budget submission supporting our programs and initiatives 

pertaining to veterans’ employment. 

VETS is the Federal Government’s leader on veteran employment. The coordinated actions and collaborative relationships between VETS and the 12 other departments in DoL create synergy 

through the integration of all departmental resources and expertise 

on veterans’ employment, bringing all of DoL’s resources to bear for 

America’s veterans and servicemembers. 

VETS mission is focused on four key areas, preparing veterans 

for meaningful careers; providing them with employment resources 

and expertise; protecting their employment rights; and promoting 

the employment of veterans and related training opportunities to 

employers across the country. 

VETS prepares veterans for meaningful careers through the 

Transition Assistance Program where DoL teaches a mandatory 

and comprehensive three-day employment workshop at U.S. military installations around the world. We provide a vast array of 

services to transitioning servicemembers, veterans, and their 

spouses to help them with job searching, accessing training proVerDate Aug 31 2005 09:51 Mar 24, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\98-571.TXT PAT

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grams to bridge skill gaps, and identifying employment opportunities. 

At the center of the department’s efforts are two VETS administered grant programs: the Jobs for Veterans State Grants or JVSG 

and the Homeless Veterans’ Reintegration Program, or HVRP. 

HVRP offers competitive grants to nonprofit organizations to provide employment and training services to homeless veterans so 

that they can be reintegrated into the labor force. There are currently 154 of these grantees across the Nation. 

JVSG funds are provided to fund two staff positions: Disabled 

Veterans’ Outreach Program specialists, known as DVOPs, and the 

Local Veterans’ Employment Representatives, or LVERs. These 

staff work for state governments at the Nation’s nearly 2,500 

American Job Centers. 

DVOP specialists provide intensive services to eligible veterans 

and spouses to meet their employment needs, prioritizing service to 

special disabled or other disabled veterans, and to other eligible 

veterans in accordance with priorities determined by the Secretary. 

DVOPs must place maximum emphasis on assisting veterans who 

are economically or educationally disadvantaged. 

In response to concerns expressed by the Veteran Service Organizations regarding constraints in meeting the number of veterans eligible for DVOP services, VETS recently modified definitions for 

the duration of unemployment and ex-offenders to expand the population eligible for those services. 

LVERs perform a wide variety of duties specifically related to 

outreach to the employer community. They advocate for all veterans served by the AJC with local businesses and other community-based organizations. We recently released clarifying guidance 

about the role of the LVER in order to address concerns raised by 

our VSO partners. 

VETS protects veterans’ employment rights by receiving, investigating, and resolving claims arising under the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act. We also investigate claims of violations of veterans’ preference in federal hiring. 

In a related effort, VETS collects annual reports on veteran employment from federal contractors and partners closely with the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs to ensure that federal contractors understand their obligations regarding veteran hiring. We then connect these employers with employment ready veterans to help them meet their hiring goals. 

VETS Office of Strategic Outreach promotes engagements with 

federal, state, and local governments; private sector employers and 

trade associations; institutes of higher learning, nonprofit organizations; and Veteran Service Organizations to establish and develop 

a network that enables service members, veterans, and families to 

successfully integrate into their communities. 

VETS continues to work closely with our partners across the government to support veteran employment initiatives. We also work 

with industry-wide veteran hiring efforts and have participated in 

numerous job summits in military installations around the country. 

Additionally, we have partnered with over 50 major companies to 

help institutionalize their veteran hiring by connecting them with 

local AJCs to bring in job ready veteran talent. 


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VETS is making a difference. Our veterans are obtaining meaningful employment. With the veteran unemployment rate continuing to trend lower than the national average and significant 

improvement amongst our youngest veterans, we would have 

strong concerns with any legislation that would interrupt our 

progress or constrain our ability to help veterans, transitioning 

service members, and their families continue to achieve positive 

employment outcomes. 

We look forward to working with the Subcommittee to ensure 

that our transitioning service members, veterans, and families 

have the resources and training they need to successfully transition 

to the civilian workforce. 

Thank you for the opportunity to be part of this hearing. I welcome any questions you may have. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF TERESA W. GERTON APPEARS IN

THE APPENDIX] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you, Ms. Gerton. 

I am now going to yield myself five minutes for questions. 

And the first concern I have or one of the most common concerns 

that we have heard from VSOs and from Members alike is the lack 

of real solid performance data for DVOPs and LVERs that truly 

show if the services they provide actually lead to a veteran receiving a meaningful job. 

And that really is the bottom line of where we want to be, and 

I know you understand that. And I understand that one of the 

issues that prevents DoL from having this data is the myriad of 

state IT and data systems that DoL relies on for that information 

which I understand to be very complicated. 

But can you describe to us some of the challenges you have with 

tracking these types of performances and then, if you would, how 

will or will not the department’s fiscal year 2016 budget request, 

address these challenges that you face? 

Ms. GERTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Data is a very important piece of our agenda. And, of course, as 

we all want to be able to track outcome-related metrics for the performance of DVOPs and LVERs, I think we are making some 

progress and especially under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act that will drive changes in those reporting systems. 

We expect to continue to see improvement, but right now we do 

track three department-wide common measures for outcome. We 

track the entered employment rate, that is do veterans or Americans who receive services through the job center secure employment within 90 days after their last service in the job center. We 

track the retained employment rate which is do they retain employment for the following two quarters after they have obtained 

employment. And then we also track their six-month earnings. 

Within those, those are common measures tracked across the entire workforce system, we are able to segregate out the population 

of veterans who have received services at an American Job Center 

and further below that the population that has received services 

from a DVOP so that we can differentiate between the levels of 

service. 

We have great performance measures right now. We are continuing to see an upward trend in the entered employment rate for 


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veterans, for all veterans who are served at the job center and then 

within that, the JVSG rates are even higher. For fiscal year 2014, 

the entered employment rate for veterans who received services 

through the JVSG Program was at 55 percent and the retained employment rate was at 80 percent. And those numbers have continued to trend upward. 

We also just this week released a study commissioned by our 

chief evaluator’s office that laid out more specifics in detail. They 

took the first look at the new reporting structure and they looked 

at over 20 million employment records. Two million of those were 

veterans. So we have a very large statistical sample. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Let me ask a question. I mean, those are good 

statistics, obviously helpful to follow, and DoL tracks those types 

of statistics. 

But I am not certain that I am hearing that these employment 

numbers are a result of those programs. Like you may have said 

they took part in the program, but did the employment that they 

end up with, is that a result of being in those programs? 

Ms. GERTON. I think you are correct in saying that they are correlated and it is difficult to track causality, but the correlation is 

very close and very tight. And that is especially prominent in the 

Summit Report which, again, we just released. It has over two million veteran records in it, so we have a very statistically sound 

sample there. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. From our standpoint here, we want to know if 

the program that we are endorsing is actually having the result or 

is the result coming from somewhere else? 

And so with the budget constraints and no uptick in this budget 

proposal, are we really going to be able to track that? Are there 

any changes that let us know if these programs are working? It is 

nice to see the numbers go up. I agree with you there. But what 

is the cause? And you addressed that to some degree. So how can 

we get that information? 

Ms. GERTON. I think there is another indicator of the level of 

service and the involvement of the DVOPs, particularly in supporting veterans as they are getting job ready, and that is the level 

of intensive services. So that measures how much time DVOPs are 

spending with their clients in the JVSG Program. 

A few years ago, that number was down around 20 percent. 

When we implemented the JVSG refocusing effort, we set some 

pretty ambitious goals. By the end of fiscal year 2015, we expect 

to be at 75 percent. We are at 55 percent right now across the program. 

We know that as a result of the refocusing, the DVOPs are able 

to spend more time with their clients. They are spending more time 

with their clients. And as that happens and the numbers are 

trending upward, we believe that there is a really strong correlation between those two factors. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. 

I now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Takano, for questions 

he may have. 

Mr. TAKANO. Great. I have a number of 53 percent of veterans 

who are experiencing a period of unemployment are adequately 

being trained during the DoL workshop, employment workshop. 


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Ms. GERTON. I am sorry, sir. Is your question whether or not the 

training is adequate to prevent unemployment? 

Mr. TAKANO. No. The 53 percent of veterans that we know are 

experiencing—that is the number of I have—who are experiencing 

a period of unemployment are adequately being trained during the 

Department of Labor employment workshop. 

Ms. GERTON. I do believe that the training that is within the Employment Workshop does address the skills that those transitioning 

servicemembers need to begin to be introduced to the job search 

program. 

I think there is an important part in that the way we track those 

is not only do we teach that in the Employment Workshop, but now 

as a result of the military life cycle, we touch those servicemembers 

again at their capstone counseling just before they are 

transitioning. So we now have another point at which we can enforce the preparation and make sure that they are adequately prepared. 

And in partnership with DoD, we have a memorandum of understanding that allows us to execute what we call a warm handover 

so that if individuals at that point are determined not to be career 

ready by their chain of command, they are handed directly over to 

an American Job Center for additional support prior to that transition. 

We have also taken aggressive action over the last year to help 

servicemembers understand their eligibility under the dislocated 

worker provisions. And Congress has helped us by allowing us to 

provide DVOP services to transitioning servicemembers who may 

be determined to be at risk of securing civilian service. 

So that 53 percent number which was recently in the VA’s economic opportunity report is true. But since those samples were 

taken, we have implemented a number of programs to help remediate those. We look forward to seeing the numbers in the next go 

round. 

Mr. TAKANO. Well, are there redundancies between the work 

done at DoL, DoL VETS and the VA Office of Economic Opportunity? 

Ms. GERTON. So we partner very closely with the Office of Economic Opportunity. They administer two very important benefits 

that help veterans and servicemembers in that transition, the GI 

Bill and the Vocational Rehabilitation and Employment Program. 

We partner with them to make sure that transitioning 

servicemembers and veterans are adequately apprised of those and 

know how to leverage those benefits. 

In the Vocational Rehabilitation Program, in fact, we are just at 

the point of signing an updated memorandum between the two organizations that addresses data sharing that clarifies responsibilities so that the Department of Labor has the employment responsibility piece and provides labor market information to the VA so 

that they can provide clear guidance to their clients about what job 

opportunities might be appropriate for them in job growth areas or 

local labor market information. 

So that partnership is very tight. It is tight on the pre-transition 

side. It is tight on the post-transition side and along the way for 


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veterans. And it is absolutely critical to delivering the best possible 

support that we can for veterans. 

Mr. TAKANO. But I know that you have a tight relationship, but 

are there redundancies? 

Ms. GERTON. We are working hard to make sure that there 

aren’t. I think it is important to differentiate the counseling responsibility and the administration of benefits of the VA side from 

the actual job training and employment services provided on the 

Department of Labor side. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. So there are redundancies from what I am 

hearing? 

Ms. GERTON. There could be if we are not careful, but we try to 

be again very clear and transparent in those relationships. 

Mr. TAKANO. Well, let’s go back to TAPs since we have some experience with it. If we were to start all over and build a new transition and veteran employment program, transition and veteran program which goes beyond TAPs that would be funded at the current 

$233 million, how would it differ from the program we have today 

if you were to try and rebuild it? 

Ms. GERTON. There is a challenge with the TAP Program in all 

of the things we would like to be able to teach servicemembers 

while they are going through that and the amount of time that 

they can spend away from their unit to participate. The balance of 

that right now sits at a five-day, eight-hour-a-day class. Within 

that, you are constrained in terms of the amount of material that 

you can provide. 

I think we are in partnership with DoD and VA trying to maximize not only what we teach in that class, but then to offer alternative classes, additional modules. For example, the career and 

technical training track or the entrepreneurial track that 

servicemembers may take in addition to the core curriculum. 

And the other piece of that is we do an annual curriculum review 

to make sure that what we are teaching reflects current state of 

the art, that we are capturing as many of the resources as possible, 

and that we can make the resources available for review as 

servicemembers proceed through and into their veteran status. 

They may need to go back and reference that material, so it is important to make sure that it is always online as well. 

Mr. TAKANO. Well, thank you. 

My time is up, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Mr. Costello, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Mr. COSTELLO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Gerton, thank you for your testimony. 

I want to focus on the Transition Assistance Program. Two-part 

question or two elements of that program that I would ask that you 

share some of your observations on. 

First, the $100,000 in the budget that is intended to develop a 

mobile application, is that intended to supplant the classroom or is 

that intended to be a supplement to the classroom? 

And I ask that question because one of the issues raised about 

TAP is that at the end of the program, there is oftentimes, at least 

the thought that the returning servicemember might actually want 

to refer back. And so it is oriented around whether that mobile app 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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may actually be the conduit through which TAP can live on after 

the classroom. 

So if you would offer even beyond that any content that you 

might be thinking of putting in that mobile app in order to accomplish that objective. 

The second part of the question or the second question is Military Compensation and Retirement Modernization Commission, 

that is a mouthful, specifically recommended having DVOPs and 

LVERs more involved with TAP. What are your views on those recommendations? 

Ms. GERTON. Thank you, sir. Let me take the first one, the $100,000 for the mobile TAP app. 

Our vision for that is that it would be in addition to the classroom 

curriculum, that it would be a way for servicemembers to continue 

to refer to it either while they are in class or after. 

One of the opportunities that we are hoping to take advantage 

of is making it modular so that each part of the curriculum is accessible on its own so that individuals who come back later and 

maybe just want to review the resume writing piece, for example, 

can just look at the resume writing piece without having to scroll 

through the entire curriculum deck that is currently available online. 

We hope to make it much more accessible not only to 

transitioning servicemembers while they are going through the 

class but to veterans at any point after their separation. And as we 

do right now with the online curriculum, we make it available to 

anyone, not just servicemembers and veterans and families, but 

anyone who can access the material online. 

We would envision this being a global application. The content 

would be whatever is in the curriculum at the time we develop it 

and then we would continue to modernize it as we change curriculum. Does that answer your question, sir? 

Mr. COSTELLO. Yes. 

Ms. GERTON. All right. So let me take the second question, the 

proposal about allowing DVOPs and LVERs to work more closely 

with the on-base Transition Assistance Programs. 

In September of last year, in fact, DoL VETS published a veterans’ program letter out to our workforce and to the employment 

and training workforce actually encouraging that engagement. 

There is a limit to what we can direct those state employees to do. 

But we did especially encourage them to be responsive to the onbase TAP administrator so that when there were capstone programs, for example, that they could be invited to too attend, if at 

all possible, to be active with the transition assistance centers 

there on the base and to build that working relationship. So we 

have already published that guidance and that was after our initial 

interviews with the folks on the commission. 

Mr. COSTELLO. So just to clarify your second answer, you’ve 

made that recommendation; however, there’s nothing that you can 

do to compel, for lack of a better term, the DVOPs or LVERs becoming more involved. It’s on a state by state basis; is that what 

you are saying? 

Ms. GERTON. It is dependent upon the work loads and the work 

forces at the individual centers. But in most cases those folks who 


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are in American Job Centers who are proximate to military installations already have a great relationship and there’s certainly nothing that prohibits them from being more involved. We published 

that guidance specifically to encourage them to be more involved in 

the Capstone opportunities. 

Mr. COSTELLO. Thank you. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Mr. McNerney, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I’m thrilled to 

be back on the veterans committee and your sub-committee. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Welcome back. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Ms. Gerton, thank you for your work and I want 

to compliment you on your presentation a few minutes ago. My 

first question has to do with federal contractors, they are required 

to make reports on their hiring practices on compliance. What’s the 

enforcement mechanism and how do they cooperate? Is the information you get from them accurate? 

Ms. GERTON. Sir, we partner very closely with the Office of Federal Contractor Compliance programs, that executes the reporting 

mechanism, and then the Office of Federal Contractor Compliance 

monitors compliance with that. If you will give me a moment, I 

think I have statistics on that. But it’s through the VETS 100 report which we are modifying in fiscal year 2015 to be the VETS 

4212, and we are clarifying a lot of the reporting. 

In the old version the characteristics of covered veterans were 

overlapping, so it’s very difficult to tell exactly how many veterans 

had been hired. The new version that goes into effect this year will 

be much clearer and will allow for much greater and more accurate 

compliance on the part of OFCCP. 

So those numbers were 14,000 federal contractors submitted veteran hiring filings in fiscal year 2014 and they demonstrated over 

half a million veterans employed by those federal contractors, including over a hundred thousand disabled veterans. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. So you feel that that is an effective program? 

Ms. GERTON. We do. And one of the things that we have expanded on with the Office of Federal Contractor Compliance is outreach to those federal contractors so that when they are having difficulty meeting the floors that are now set in the new federal rules 

that we can help introduce them to the job center network so that 

they can help expand their affirmative action plans with regard to 

veteran hiring. And we think that’s going to have a very positive 

effect. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. And one of the things that kind of struck me 

about your presentation is it seemed to me you were saying that 

your programs are effective and you don’t want legislation to be 

written that will mess those up. Did I hear that? Am I interpreting 

that correctly? 

Ms. GERTON. So we absolutely believe that VETS is an integral 

part of the Department of Labor. And that to understand the veteran programs, you have to take a whole of department approach 

to it and understand the relationship of the programs in the Employment and Training Agency, for example, Office of Federal Contract Compliance and others to get a whole grasp of all of the 

things that DoL is doing on behalf of veterans employment. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Mr. MCNERNEY. That sounded a little weird to me and I think 

the Secretary said something like that yesterday, well, he really 

didn’t need our help, he will let us know when he did. And that 

kind of makes me nervous, so I would like you to keep that in 

mind. 

Ms. GERTON. Sure. 

Mr. REGNER. Do you have statistics on veterans’ job retention? 

Ms. GERTON. The most recent statistics for fiscal year 2014 tell 

us that 80 percent of the veterans who received service through an 

American Job Center retained their employment for at least six 

months after gaining it. We do only have statistics on the veterans 

who receive services through the American Job Center network. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Well, do you have any quantitative information 

on what might be the biggest barriers that veterans that are seeking employment, what are their biggest barriers? 

Ms. GERTON. It is difficult to have quantitative information, but 

I can tell you based on the feedback that we have from the DVOPs 

and folks out in the field, there are really two areas where our 

transitioning service members are challenged, and perhaps also 

longer term separated veterans. 

The first is really an understanding of the civilian job search 

process. As the Chairman said in his opening statement, these are 

folks who have never really had that experience before, and so the 

transition process is especially important in preparing them to 

navigate that sort of uncertain world for them. 

And a recognition on their part that the job search process can 

take months, not just days or weeks. We think it is especially important in the transition process as DoD implements the military 

life cycle and that concept of transition becomes an ongoing one, to 

keep them engaged in that. But also then to help them post transition with one-on-one assistance through the American Job Center. 

That can very much ease the transition process. But I think that’s 

the first piece. 

The second piece is actually working with the veteran to help understand the technical skills gap that they may have coming out 

of the military, and looking to target specific training solutions, so 

that, especially in the short-run, we can find short-term training 

that magnifies and amplifies their military skills training and delivers to them the civilian credentials that businesses are looking 

for. 

Sometimes that is a full four-year degree and we certainly encourage the maximum opportunity for folks to take advantage of 

the G.I. Bill. But for many, that middle skills space may be the 

more important short-term solution. Learning how to leverage the 

entire workforce system to deliver the right training to the right 

person to get them the credentials that that employer is looking for 

is really a powerful tool. We are trying to maximize the department’s investment in job-driven training to help support that objective. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Ms. Radewagen, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Ms. RADEWAGEN. Welcome back, Ms. Gerton. 

Ms. GERTON. Thank you. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Ms. RADEWAGEN. It’s good to see you. I have a couple of questions for you. Do you have a VA rep from the Department of Labor 

in American Samoa working employment issues for our veterans? 

Ms. GERTON. Ma’am, we do not have a JVSG grant funded individual in American Samoa. 

Ms. RADEWAGEN. Why not? 

Ms. GERTON. Well, in fact, we were just looking at that before 

we came over to the hearing. It is certainly something we would 

welcome the opportunity to discuss with your office. 

Ms. RADEWAGEN. Thank you. Secondly, are American Samoan 

veterans eligible for re-employment rights under USERRA? Every 

state and territory except for American Samoa has an ESGR rep. 

Why doesn’t American Samoa have one? 

Ms. GERTON. Ma’am, I don’t know the answer to that question 

and I will have to take it for the record. 

Ms. RADEWAGEN. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, thank you. If there are no other questions, 

I want to thank you, Ms. Gerton. You are now excused, and I appreciate your being here today to answer our questions. 

Mr. GERTON. Thank you, sir, it has been my pleasure. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. I now invite our second and final panel to the 

witness table. Joining us is Mr. Davy Leghorn, Assistant Director 

of the Veterans Employment and Education Division for the American Legion. Mr. Rick Weidman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Executive Director of Government Affairs for the 

Vietnam Veterans of America. And Mr. Paul Varela, Assistant Legislative Director for Disabled American Veterans. I thank you for 

being with us today, and for all of your service in uniform, and 

your continued service to our nation’s veterans. 

Mr. Leghorn, let us begin with you. You are now recognized for 

five minutes. 

STATEMENT OF DAVY G. LEGHORN 

Mr. LEGHORN. Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, 

and distinguished members of the sub-committee, on behalf of our 

National Commander Michael Helm and the 2.4 million members 

of the American Legion, we thank you for this opportunity to testify on the President’s budget request for DoL-VETS, and on the 

recommendations offered by the Military Compensation and Retirement Modernization Commission regarding DoL programs. 

Among the 15 recommendations offered in the Commission report was a recommendation to better prepare service members for 

transition to civilian life by expanding education and granting 

states more flexibility to administer the Jobs for Veterans State 

Grants program. 

The American Legion believes that these recommendations are 

common sense ideas that would ensure that service members are 

able to transition smoothly and successfully into civilian careers, 

and that veterans are adequately cared for should they require employment assistance. 

We would, however, recommend that Congress consider adding 

the Department of Education and the Small Business Administration to those who review the TAP curriculum, given that they conVerDate Aug 31 2005 09:51 Mar 24, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00017 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\98-571.TXT PAT

VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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tribute important content to the curriculum and they maintain expertise in those areas covered by that content. 

Furthermore, while the American Legion agrees with the recommendation that Congress amends relevant statutes to permit 

state Departments of Labor to work directly with state Veterans’ 

Affairs, we would add that these departments should work together 

to ensure that operations of the one-stop centers exceed the federally mandated priority of service for eligible veterans. 

We find that the model employed by Texas, consolidating veterans’ employment services within a state’s veterans commission is 

effective in addressing the needs of veterans. Texas currently sees 

the lowest unemployment rate for veterans of any state in the 

Union, and as such we would encourage Congress to examine that 

model and to consider touting it as an example to other states that 

are looking to effectively serve their veterans population. 

Bluntly stated, we were disappointed when we examined the 

budget request offered by the Administration on behalf of DoLVETS. We were even more disappointed when we compared their 

requests with the requests on behalf of VA. The latter represented 

a nearly eight percent increase on a previous year, while the 

former represented a marginal increase over the previous years, 

with JVSG and the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program receiving almost no increase in funding. 

Additionally, VA has stepped up their presence in the employment arena and invested in increasing the number of veterans employment specialists and creating the Veterans Employment Center, a single point of entry which offers online tools such as a skills 

translator, a resume builder, and a searchful veterans job bank. 

Looking at the Small Business Administration. Their office for 

veterans business development’s budget has increased over 400 

percent and their entrepreneurial services to veterans have more 

than doubled since fiscal year 2013. 

At a time when seemingly every agency with veterans programs 

is increasing their capacity to provide services to more veterans 

and transitioning service members, VETS budgets requests have 

nearly flatlined even as other portions of Labor’s budget requests 

have increased. This indicates to us that VETS is either unwilling 

or unable to fight to secure their requisite funding to meet the high 

volume of demand for Veterans Employment Services, or to meet 

the Administration’s goal of effectively ending homelessness by the 

end of 2015. 

The American Legion has long supported DoL–VETS because we 

believe that when it comes to employment, no one has more expertise and experience. For our efforts, we have been rewarded with 

ongoing program management problems, a lack of accountability in 

oversight, an agency too truculent to make sensible policy changes, 

and a veterans office within the agency that fails to view veteran 

service organizations as partners for all working in tandem toward 

similar goals. 

It has become transparent that DoL is either unable or unwilling 

to give the requisite attention to veterans’ employment issues that 

the American Legion knows our veterans deserve. 

In short, the American Legion believes that the best way to improve DoL-VETS is to transfer the JVSG and HVRP program to 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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VA. While we continue to believe that there is a place for VETS 

within the Department of Labor to handle the ancillary functions 

with that office, we know that veterans will be better served if 

these two programs were administered by the Department of Veteran Affairs. 

The American Legion understands that our proposal is neither 

an easy task nor is it amendable to all the stakeholders, but we 

know that this is the right thing to do and the right time to do it 

because, frankly, our veterans deserve better. 

The American Legion is ready to work with DoL, VA, and especially this sub-committee to ensure that interagency transition of 

the JVSG and HVRP programs occur as seamlessly as possible. 

Thank you, and I look forward to any questions you may have. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you, Mr. Leghorn. Mr. Weidman, you are 

now recognized for five minutes. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAVY G. LEGHORN APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 

STATEMENT OF RICK WEIDMAN 

Mr. WEIDMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of this 

committee, for allowing us to participate in this hearing today. 

For over 30 years VVA has believed in a wellness model which 

is that all, and I mean all, services offered by the VA and by other 

entities should be directed to the flashpoint of assisting veterans to 

get to the point where they can obtain and sustain meaningful employment at a living wage. 

And that is really the heart of the readjustment process, particularly for those more recently separating veterans, but also for veterans who, at a later point in their life, have been hit with 

neuropsychiatric wounds coming to the fore, et cetera, and it (indiscernible) serious problems. 

VETS centers can help, but they can’t help, and you are asking 

people to go through what happened to you on the field of combat, 

to get all dressed up, all cleaned up, dried out, drug free, in order 

to do what? To stand on the corner and not be unemployed again? 

That’s not going to work and it’s going to focus into a recycle or 

a churning, if you will, of our intent. In regard to the $175 million, I was interested, and I apologize 

to you, I was told that I would be out in time to, at the clay hut 

signing, to be here by 2:00, Mr. Chairman, and that turned out not 

to be the case. A lot of people fight to get in the White House; I 

was in a position where I couldn’t get out. So I apologize. 

But the point is, is that all the readjustment counseling and the 

millions we spend, billions, on VHA to help people get up-to-speed, 

if we can’t help them get a job and keep that job, then it all is for 

naught. Directly affects, and I’m sure you know, Doctor, from your 

own practice, that people who are unemployed don’t go to the podiatrist when they should, they don’t go to the dentist when they 

should, they don’t do all kinds of things when they should, and 

they don’t eat right because they don’t have money. 

So the best readjustment program that we can have ever is 

meaningful work at a living wage. It’s as simple as that. And that’s 

true for disabled vets of any generation, for veterans who are at 

risk who have run into difficulties later in their life, often related 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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back to their military service, and it certainly is true for the young 

people coming home today. 

A hundred and seventy-five million is probably not enough for 

the DVOP, LVER, or the State Grants as they now call them. I did 

notice, and maybe it was in the verbal testimony, but in the statement it didn’t say how many DVOPs and LVERs they get for $175 

million, and it didn’t say anything at all in there. 

The other thing is I would like to bring your attention to the fact 

that there are no good measures for how effective they are on enforcement of USERRA. The problem there is it often takes too long, 

and justice delayed is justice denied when it comes to getting your 

job back. The same is true of the other enforcement functions that 

Labor has. There’s no real monitoring on all of that. 

The HVRP program, or Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program, is the most cost-efficient, cost-effective program operated by 

the Department of Labor. And they actually do placements as opposed to what the rest of them do, which is go look at UI tax reports the quarter later, and you may or may not have gotten a job 

because something somebody did at a DoL facility or a DVOP or 

LVER did, but there’s no way of putting that together because they 

don’t measure placements. 

If you look on Page 5 of my testimony about the vision and mission statement of VETS, this is straight from their Web site, sir, 

‘‘Meaningful and successful careers for all vets. VETS proudly 

serve veterans and service members. We provide resources and expertise to assist and prepare them to obtain meaningful careers, 

maximize their employment opportunities, and protect their employment rights.’’ 

Nowhere in that does it say we exist to help get vet jobs. It’s as 

simple as that. And that is the task at hand. The proof is in the 

pudding. The proof is in the action. And it used to be, once upon 

a time, placements over there at the Department of Labor and the 

state workforce development agencies, but they have gotten out of 

that business a long time ago. 

Just to reinforce Mr. Leghorn and the Legion, it is past time to 

move this function out of the Department of Labor where we are 

always in the position of tugging at somebody’s sleeve, and usually 

being ignored. And it is an anti-veteran atmosphere that is driven 

by the Employment and Training Administration, ETA. It’s been 

that way all of my adult life, since I first started to try and help 

other vets with employment problems in the early ‘70s, and it continues to be that way today. 

The cast of characters, the persons change, but the corporate culture continues on. We need a fourth division of VA and I encourage 

the committee to do that before this Congress is up. I thank you 

very much, distinguished Members of the committee, and for the 

opportunity, and look forward to working with you on solving some 

of these problems. Thank you. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you, Mr. Weidman. Mr. Varela, you are 

now recognized for five minutes. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF RICK WEIDMAN APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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STATEMENT OF PAUL R. VARELA 

Mr. VARELA. Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and 

members of the sub-committee, good afternoon. On behalf of Disabled American Veterans and our 1.2 million members, all of whom 

were wounded, injured, or made ill in wartime military service, I 

am pleased to testify today on issues related to the release of the 

President’s fiscal year 2016 budget request for DoL’s—VETS program. The Administration requests $271 million in funding to operate the VETS program for fiscal year 2016, an increase of roughly $1 

million over that requested for fiscal year 2015. A hundred and 

seventy-five million dollars is requested to support the JVSG program which funds DVOP and LVER activities. A hundred and seventy-five million dollars was also requested for fiscal year 2015. 

Veterans who are seriously wounded, injured, or made ill as a 

consequence of military service face daunting challenges and sometimes outright barriers to obtaining and maintaining substantial 

and gainful occupations and trades. Adequate, reliable, and effective support and services must be provided to ensure their economic prosperity. 

DAV understands the vital role employment plays for all veterans, and especially for our wartime disabled veterans. Realizing 

the challenges they continue to face in the employment marketplace, we established the new national employment department in 

2014. One key element of this mission is a partnership DAV formed 

with RecruitMilitary®, a full-service military-to-civilian recruiting 

firm providing free online and offline products to connect employers, franchisers, and educational institutions with veterans and 

their spouses. 

Chairman Wenstrup, and members of this sub-committee, in 

order to achieve better outcomes for veterans, VA programs designed to promote veterans’ financial security such as those focused 

on employment, training, vocational rehabilitation, and education 

should be consolidated into a fourth new administration within the 

VA equivalent to VA’s Health Administration, Benefits Administration, and National Cemetery Administration. 

Headed by a new Undersecretary, facilitation of these federal 

programs dealing with economic opportunity assistance for veterans, their dependents, and survivors would fall within this administration’s purview. We envision the new VA administration 

consolidating existing programs and offices in VA with responsibility for veterans vocational rehabilitation, employment, training, 

transition, and economic empowerment as well as the transfer of 

the VETS program in its entirety along with all its resources and 

personnel from DoL to VA. 

Within DoL’s VETS program, DVOPs provide intensive services 

to targeted veterans, primarily to the service disabled, and LVERs 

conduct local employer outreach to assist veterans in gaining employment. Within VA, vocational rehabilitation specialists, VRSs, 

provide veteran services that are almost identical to those provided 

with their DVOP and LVER counterparts. But VRS services are 

provided only within the VA setting. 

VRSs identify and provide suitable training and placement services for individual veterans being served by the program. To guide 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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and monitor individual progress and then provide follow-on support 

throughout the training and job adjustment periods. 

The VRSs provides personalized services that involve 

ascertaining the training requirements to meet individual objectives, and also provide placement services that involve identifying 

suitable employment opportunities or maintaining day to day contact with employers, and keeping alert for job and small business 

opportunities. 

DVOPs, LVERs, and VRSs display many commonalities. However, VRSs primarily provide assistance to veterans with compensable service connected conditions. The VRS is empowered to authorize VA payments for expenses associated with a service disabled veteran’s participation in courses of education and employment training. 

Given the nature of their shared responsibilities, collaborations 

should be occurring among DVOPs, LVERs, and VRSs but generally they operate in separate spheres. Because VA and VETS are 

actively engaged in providing similar services which can appear to 

be overlapping or even competing at times, veterans often must negotiate between two federal entities to obtain individualized services, a situation that can become cumbersome and confusing for the 

individual veteran, and thereby discourage participation. 

Finally, we believe that a new VA administration responsible for 

managing these programs is logical, responsible through a legislative mandate. Plus, important to DAV, consolidation offers the potential to streamline and enhance the prospects in training possibilities for wounded, injured, and ill veterans for them to overcome 

employment obstacles and provide meeting opportunities in their 

post-service lives. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of this sub-committee. 

DAV welcomes the opportunity to work together to see this justified reform enacted into law. This concludes my testimony, and I 

am prepared to answer any questions the sub-committee may have. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF PAUL R. VARELA APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you, Mr. Varela, and I thank you all for 

your testimony today. And I just have to say in response to one of 

the things that Mr. Weidman brought up. I would agree that the 

best social reform or opportunity for an independent life that anyone has is a job. That is the best way out. And very often, people, 

either veterans or non-veterans, they make their budget and adapt 

it by giving up healthcare, and that is a problem as well. And I recognize that and appreciate your comments. 

With that I am going to yield myself five minutes for questions. 

And my question is, can you comment on your opinion or how you 

perceive the level of funding for fiscal year 2016 for the VETS program, and what this might say about the priority of that program 

within DoL? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. We are at the bottom of the totem pole, if we are 

on the pole at all. And in terms of priorities, the only time we are 

a priority is when they hold ceremonies and to salute the all American veterans that they hold in various venues and in Frances Perkins buildings are empty exercises. They are by invitation only. No 

homeless veterans or unemployed veterans get an invitation. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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And the rhetoric rings hollow, as hollow and echoes in the great 

hall of the Perkins building, at least to us. And, to me, I frankly, 

I don’t mean anybody ill or disrespect, but I flat quit going because 

it was ashes in one’s mouth to hear them saying things that I knew 

they weren’t trying to achieve. 

And that’s what we need. We need an agency that pays attention 

and takes your role and Mr. Takano’s role, and all of distinguished 

members of this committee serious as a heartbeat when it comes 

to whether or not they are doing the right thing by veterans in the 

field. 

So I will just say that because of a lack of accountability, we 

can’t recommend an increase in any part of that budget, with the 

exception of HVRP which should be at the fully authorized level of 

56 million as opposed to 37. I mean I never understood what part 

of this people don’t get? Jobs for veterans who are homeless to get 

off the tax dole and onto the tax rolls. I mean it makes no sense 

to me. So that is where we ought to be putting our money where 

we are getting the bang for the tax payer dollar, sir. 

Mr. LEGHORN. So with regards to the budget, it clearly shows 

that Labor’s priority is in funding other programs and not JVSG 

or HVRP. We understand that the Secretary is responsible for employment for everyone and not just for veterans, so we understand 

to a certain degree why that isn’t given the time of day where they 

are within Labor. 

And one thing we would like to note is that if DLS is correct and 

unemployment is relatively low now compared to where it was before, what we don’t understand is what would account for the massive increases in budget requests for other non-veterans’ employment programs. 

You know, 70 percent of our transitioning service members claim 

some sort of service connected disabilities, and even if under a current model where DVOPs are only seen, 20 percent of the veterans 

population that are disabled or have various new employment with 

the anticipated draw down, that 20 percent is about to grow and 

the current budget request is not getting our DVOPs ready for 

that. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Mr. Varela. 

Mr. VARELA. Thank you, Chairman. My colleague to my right 

here put on a very good point. We have about 250,000 service members that are leaving active military service every year, and I think 

around 2017 or 2020 we are excepting to see about a million of 

them to have separated between 2013 and that time frame. 

So how many of them are going to require employment services? 

And we feel there is going to be a great number of them that require employment services. And looking at their budget, we don’t 

feel that that displays a sense of urgency, we don’t feel it is adequate. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, I thank you all. And now recognize Ranking Member Mr. Takano for any questions he may have. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a very informative hearing, I really appreciate that we are doing it. Mr. 

Weidman, you mentioned that there is no placement, can you 

elaborate on that some more? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. Concerning as to what, sir? 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Mr. TAKANO. You were referring to a lack of job placement. Did 

I hear you correctly in your testimony? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. You did. And if you look carefully, they don’t actually measure placements anymore and they haven’t for a long time. 

If you press them hard at Employment and Training Administration or at the state workforce development agencies what business 

they are in, they will tell you they are in the information-sharing 

business. That is not what our vets need. They need one-on-one 

counseling, particularly the priorities that we should be focusing 

on. 

This is true for 40 years that folks have been trying to do this 

on the cheap, particularly for combat veterans returning or veterans with multiple problems, and you can’t do it on the cheap. 

Trying to serve—we serve hundreds and thousands or hundreds of 

thousands of people. All those stats they put out are post hoc ergo 

propter hoc numbers. What I mean by that, they are saying, they 

look at the UI tax rolls and if you go into a career center in your 

district and you enroll, they call that counseling. And if you then 

show up three months later after they have done nothing else on 

the UI tax rolls as being employed, they take a positive termination and they said, well, they have a job because of us. Well, no, 

you don’t, you know. 

And we need to focus particularly on the veterans with problems 

and that is why the veterans staff is there. And they are not allowed to do their job and that is why we need to move much better 

control over to VA. Many of them will stay with the state workforce 

development agencies if the state workforce development agencies 

will finally let them do their job, but if not, then they should contract with whoever in the community. And it is just as simple as 

that. The job is not getting done and the bottom line for us is does 

it work in California and does it work in Ohio and does it work 

wherever people are delivering this service, and it is not happening. And that is not a rap on the DVOPs and LVERs. Some of 

the finest people I have ever met are DVOPs and LVERs who work 

their tail off and do great things for vets no matter how much they 

are punished for doing the right thing, and that is what we have 

to get away from. 

Mr. TAKANO. Are you familiar with a program in California out 

of the National Guard called Work for—it is called Work for Warriors, right? Work for Warriors that does direct placement. It has 

now been expanded to include our veterans population. If you are 

not, I mean, I just wanted to be—I am interested in—you caught 

my ear, because I know that this program does direct placement 

for the Guard and it has been very successful for about $500 per 

placement, which is fairly inexpensive compared to the other programs that are out there. But you also—so you can answer. Have 

you heard of it at all or—— 

Mr. WEIDMAN. I’m sorry? 

Mr. TAKANO. Have you heard of the program Work for Warriors 

in California? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. Actually, I have. I haven’t worked as much recently with—but when I was in New York, which was at that time 

the second largest program, DVOP/LVER program in the country, 

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part in California. And we did a lot of things together, including 

putting together outreach programs that went to blinded veterans 

and worked in terms of getting people substantive jobs, they were 

placements. But it is intensive, you know, you can’t do it on the 

cheap and expect it to work. 

I will check out the program that you are talking about, sir. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. 

Mr. WEIDMAN. And I will be happy to talk—— 

Mr. TAKANO. I appreciate your feedback to us. 

Mr. Leghorn, you mentioned that you would like to see in the 

TAPs some work with the Education Department. Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? 

Mr. LEGHORN. As you know, it is an educational track within 

TAP GPS and the American Legion has always felt that the Department of Education needed to take a larger role in coming up 

with that curriculum, so that is what we were referring to. 

Mr. TAKANO. And why? What do you find that is missing that 

you are asking for that to happen? 

Mr. LEGHORN. Mr. Takano, can I take this question for the 

record? I am actually not the person that works the education—— 

Mr. TAKANO. Sure. I am curious, because I want to know what 

is missing. That is fine. 

Mr. LEGHORN. Absolutely, I will provide those answers for you. 

Mr. TAKANO. That is fine, that is fine. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. my time is up. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mrs. Radewagen, you’re recognized for five minutes. 

Mrs. RADEWAGEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to 

thank the panel. 

Mr. Varela, I want to applaud DAV for taking initiative to partner with RecruitMilitary® to help transitioning service members 

find employment. Have you coordinated your efforts with DVOPs 

and LVERs? And if you have, do you find their services to be helpful or harmful to your efforts? 

Also, how do you market this new service to service members? 

Mr. VARELA. Congresswoman, the feedback that we get from the 

field relative to DVOP and LVER activities is they don’t work well 

with us. And what I mean us, DAV and potentially maybe some 

other VSOs as well. Again, they are kind of isolated. 

We do recognize an outstanding DVOP and LVER within the 

community. It is part of DAV’s annual award program, but those 

are the two that rise to the top and are really engaged with us trying to help veterans find employment. But oftentimes there is a big 

disconnect, so the relationships aren’t that stable, aren’t that effective. 

And the second question you had about RecruitMilitary® that relationship and how we market it and how we—— 

Mrs. RADEWAGEN. Yes. 

Mr. VARELA. Okay. So basically what we will do is we use our 

media online services to pump out information. We will send out 

notices within the communities. That is the extent of my knowledge, that is how deep I go with it. I can certainly get you more 

information on the full extent of our outreach within communities. 

Mrs. RADEWAGEN. Thank you, Mr. Varela. 


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Mr. VARELA. Yes, ma’am. 

Mrs. RADEWAGEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Mr. McNerney, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some interesting testimony. Thank you. 

My first question. Mr. Weidman, you were pretty clear about 

your feeling that the employment services should be run out of the 

VA instead of the Department of Labor. Mr. Leghorn, do you concur with that assessment? 

Mr. LEGHORN. So currently the American Legion believes that 

there is still a place for vets within the Department of Labor. However, the two programs, HVRP and JVSG, must move. And then 

the reason why we believe that there should still be a veterans office within Labor is that during the transition there still needs to 

be a go-between and having an entity there would provide that gobetween. 

Mr. McNerney. Mr. Varela? 

Mr. VARELA. Congressman, I was taking down some notes from 

the Congresswoman. If you wouldn’t mind repeating the question? 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Sure. Mr. Weidman was pretty clear about his 

belief that the employment services ought to be run out of the VA 

instead of the Department of Labor, I was wondering if you concurred with that. 

Mr. VARELA. We do concur with that. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you. 

Mr. Leghorn, I was going to follow up on one of your comments. 

How effective do you feel that Web sites can be in helping vets find 

meaningful employment with living wage? 

Mr. LEGHORN. Congressman, did you say the VEC? 

Mr. MCNERNEY. No, no. How effective do you think Web sites 

can be in helping veterans find meaningful employment? 

Mr. LEGHORN. Web sites help some people, and at other times it 

doesn’t. As we have seen in a particular state where a large swath 

of its population is in rural areas, the folks that the DVOPs and 

LVERs need to help most don’t have Internet connectivity. And so 

in that instance, it doesn’t work. And we also know that the Internet doesn’t exactly help people, it doesn’t triage people for priority 

of service adequately. You really need another veteran or a DVOP 

to do it. Just a veteran job seeker punching in some information 

sometimes, a lot of times, are precluded from DVOP services from 

the get-go when they are registering on a jobs link Web site. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. So is the availability of personal services, is that 

sort of a barrier then which forces people to go to a Web site or 

try to go to a Web site? 

Mr. LEGHORN. Can you repeat that question, sir? 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Well, we are talking about whether Web sites 

can be effective or not, but what would make a veteran go to a Web 

site as opposed to going to seek personal service from the Department of Labor? 

Mr. LEGHORN. Well, when you are talking about services, most 

veterans I know would go out and seek face-time type services. But 

in terms of job search, the vast majority of veterans I know do that 

online. 


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Mr. MCNERNEY. Well, I think—go ahead. 

Mr. WEIDMAN. I was just going to make the comment, sir, there 

is no single silver bullet. It is not one way, it is all of these together. I will use as an example Veterans Entrepreneurship Task 

Force has joined with VETS Group, which is the Veterans Employment Training outfit. And we are having job fairs around the country working with the airline industry and also small business 

matchmaking with larger employers in that area. We always make 

sure to involve the local workforce development agency and give 

them every chance, the local vet center and VocRehab from VA, 

and also everybody who comes to these is registered with 

vetjobs.com, which was selected by Business Week as the top Internet job board, period. Not for vets, but the top board, period, because it works and there are a lot of tools on there. It works for 

a lot of people, but as Mr. Leghorn said, there are many people 

who need one-to-one contact. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Miss Rice, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Miss RICE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Leghorn, so I guess all three of you agree that you would 

rather see the employment aspect of helping veterans be run out 

of the VA instead of the Department of Labor. My concern is that 

the VA is, as we all know, the largest consolidated healthcare provider in the country. How and why do you think they are best suited or qualified to run an employment training program? 

Mr. LEGHORN. The reason why the American Legion believes 

that VA is the right home for JVSG and HVRP is because Labor 

is not giving these programs the right type of attention that our 

veterans deserve. And so—— 

Miss RICE. Why is that? Why do you think that is? 

Mr. LEGHORN. So the American Legion looks at transitioning 

services for veterans in a holistic way and, you know, what better 

way to do it than to put employment services with healthcare services. I mean, it just makes sense because, as Mr. Weidman said before, one of the best ways to help somebody recover is to get them 

a job. And not to mention that the Department of Veterans Affairs 

has only one singular focus and that is on veterans, spouses and 

their orphans, period. Labor has a lot of other focuses and things 

that they have got to worry about, whereas the Department of Veterans Affairs, again, does not. 

Miss RICE. I don’t ask the question because I necessarily disagree 

with that, but obviously we have seen, we have had hearings about 

the problems within the VA themselves and, while a great Secretary in charge, it is still a lot of reforms that have to take place. 

Mr. Weidman, if the VA were to establish a fourth administration, as you have suggested, to oversee veterans employment, any 

claim coming under USERRA, who would handle that claim? And 

I ask this because we have seen claim backlogs at the VA before 

in the past and would this just be piling more claims onto a plate 

that is already full? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. Well, a lot of these things were add-on duties to 

the DVET and they weren’t set up to do them. And that is why 

there is no enforcement of veterans preference with federal facilities across the states for two reasons. One is, nobody measures and 


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gets on the DVETs whether they do a good investigation or an investigation at all and, number two, it takes forever. If I come home 

and I don’t get my job back, I am not going to be able to wait. I 

have got to make car payments, I have got to feed the kids, I have 

got to make mortgage payments. If they blow me off while I file 

that complaint, I am going to go take three other jobs but don’t pay 

that much while I look for a good one in order to be able to meet 

my daily needs. And people hear about this stuff, the vets know. 

They ask them, why didn’t you file a complaint? And they said because I didn’t have a year and a half to wait around, I had a family 

to feed. So, I mean, that is just one example. 

The implication is, do we think that the VA is a perfect solution? 

And the answer to that I can assure you is—my family gets worried that sometimes I get so agitated about VA that I am going to 

have the big one, as they say, and that is going to be the end of 

me just dealing with them. And as a matter of fact clinicians literally say that dealing with veterans benefits administration is 

contraindicated for the PTSD patients, because it sets them back 

six to twelve months in therapy because it is so crazy. 

We have got to take the empowering functions and get it away 

from comp and pen and establish a corporate culture of accountability, of independence in the new administration. And if you have 

got to let go 48 SESs and 60 GS–13s in order to be able to create 

that culture of independence, then so be it, but it needs to be physically and culturally separated from what is in there now and 

wherever it is and certainly when you move over there. That is 

why the redress mechanism of the 800 number is absolutely essential. Without that redress mechanism that is effective, I don’t care 

where you put the services, it is not going to be for real at the local 

level. 

So what we are saying is several things. 

Miss RICE. Mr. Weidman, and forgive me, because I apologize for 

coming in late, but my question and I don’t believe it has been 

asked, has the DoL–VETS 100 federal contractor reporting resulted 

in increased hiring of veterans? And, if not, what can be done? Or 

Mr. Varela? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. Are you asking is it effective? The answer is no. 

It is certainly not what Gerry Solomon envisioned. And it was Mr. 

Solomon from upstate New York and active in the Republican 

House leadership at the time who carried the ball on that. And, unfortunately, there is no bang for the buck and a lot of that has to 

do with the Office of Federal Contract Compliance, which is not 

particularly useful. Nobody takes that information and does anything with it, even asking for job listings. 

And so it once again has to do with the lassitude of the Department of Labor as an institution—I am not attacking individuals— 

as an institution towards veterans as a group, we are just another 

group. Well, we are not just another group. We cut across every 

other subset of the American population. We are black, we are 

white, we are women, we are men, we are Native American, we are 

Irish, we are Jewish, we are whatever it is, and we are of all economic strata. And they don’t get that and so veterans are not a priority for them. We at least have a fighting chance if we put it at 

VA. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Miss RICE. Well, I want to thank you all so much for your incredibly passionate advocacy. And I yield back my time, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. We have time for a couple more questions and, with that, I would like to ask one. 

Mr. Leghorn, you talked about the Texas model and, Mr. 

Weidman, you talked about a corporate culture. And in corporate 

culture, you look for best practices and things that are working. So 

I would like to take a second to talk about something that is working well and also get your opinion. Is the methodology of what 

Texas is doing the reason it is working well or is the Texas economy a part of it, or both? 

Mr. LEGHORN. Well, I definitely believe the oil industry in Texas 

has something to do with it. But you still can’t ignore that, when 

they put everything within one commission. I mean, that is what 

the American Legion has been talking about all the time with the 

holistic approach. That commission becomes a clearinghouse of 

services from healthcare to employment and it is all exclusively 

there for veterans. And, again, with a Veterans Commission they 

too, like the Department of Veterans Affairs, have a singular focus 

and that is veterans. And they also operate I believe independent 

from other agencies, which makes them a little bit less susceptible 

to state politics. 

Now, I also know that Texas puts their own money into the program at the services level, so that every veteran that walks 

through the door is at least greeted or triaged by a veterans’ representative and that is something that the American Legion has always asked for. With the Commission, we also know that they have 

better accountability of the dollars from JVSG, because that comes 

straight from federal and goes directly to the Commission, as opposed to any other agencies, and their line of reporting is also a 

little more linear than a lot of other states. 

Now, the only other state I know that has a Veterans Commission is the State of Wisconsin. I just wanted to add that. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you very much, I appreciate that. 

Do you want to add something? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. I did. Texas is a little bit different, but it is a 

model that could be adapted to other states. And as you know, unlike most states, they have set up many commissions. So that the 

Texas Railroad Commission, the Texas Veterans Commission 

doesn’t report to the governor actually, it reports to the commission. And certainly they take seriously what the governor says, but 

that is because of their respect for whoever is occupying the governor’s chair. But it is the same thing of independence that you are 

not being—your resources aren’t being purloined to go to other purposes other than vets. It is a sharp focus and they maintain a 

sharp focus and have communicated over the last three, four years 

via social media with the folks who actually work at the service delivery point across Texas and I find them just amazing. They have 

created the corporate culture that we are talking about. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Takano, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Mr. Weidman, you used the word, you know, in Texas the independence prevents resources from being purloined. Are you saying 

that what is going on with DoL-VETS, this $250 million—billion 

dollar—it is $250 million, is it? So a quarter of a billion dollars is 

going over to DoL, that the focus is not there on veterans, there 

is a kind of diffusion of that resource somehow into its other mission, the larger mission of DoL? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. Well, I am, and it is particularly true at the state 

workforce delivery level. You have got admin overhead, indirect 

admin overhead that ranges to over 30 percent. And I believe the 

Congress finally had to cap it, because in one state it went up to 

39 percent. Indirect, that doesn’t account for direct overhead that 

was taken out of the grant. So the grants were not going very far 

and you really only had with the DVETs the nuclear option, they 

don’t have any other power. They can yank the grant and declare 

the state noncompliant and shut off the money all together, but at 

that point governors get involved, senators get involved, and you 

better really have your ducks in a row. So you can’t pit the nuclear 

option, so you can’t do anything about an office manager who is 

misusing DVOPs and LVERs. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. So you helped clarify. So the chunk of money 

that goes to the states in the form of grants, you have all these 

local employment offices and you are saying that is where you were 

painting the picture of how this money loses its focus on vets. 

Mr. WEIDMAN. In 1980, DVOPs and LVERs made up about between five and eight percent of the staff in the local job services 

office. Today, it is often half the staff. And so they are paying much 

more of the high proportion of keeping the lights on, the rent, the 

parking lot plowed, et cetera, than we were in years past. We get 

less and less bang for the buck every year, because it is not going 

into personnel who are trained and backed up to actually meet 

with veterans. 

Mr. TAKANO. But is that because we are failing to fund the DoL 

function? The DoL funding that funds the non-veteran portion of 

it, you are saying that the veteran portion has become a greater 

percentage of the personnel that is funded there and they are not 

dedicating their attention and time to the veterans as they should? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. It is two things. Wagner-Peyser funding continues 

to go down and, if you have 100 people coming into the office and 

20 of them are vets and half of your staff is DVOP and LVER, what 

are you going to do? You are going to tell the people to serve the 

people who are walking through the door as opposed to concentrating on the mission. And so what happens is people get into the 

people-processing business as opposed to what all the folks in that 

office are supposed to be doing, which is helping people get a job, 

an actual job. Not a program, a job. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Dr.WENSTRUP. Mrs. Radewagen, you are recognized. 

Mrs. RADEWAGEN. I have one last question for Mr. Varela and 

Mr. Weidman. Can you please tell us how you believe a fourth administration would streamline the delivery of education and training benefits to veterans and bring greater visibility to these vital 

programs? 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Mr. VARELA. It is a win-win situation, in our opinion. First, it 

will alleviate the claims and appeals responsibilities already being 

managed by the Veterans Benefits Administration. So right now, 

kind of circling back to the Congresswoman’s question about VA’s 

plate being full, right now they have three plates, we would be adding a fourth plate potentially. And on that fourth plate they would 

handle education, employment, vocational rehabilitation, USERRA 

matters, as was mentioned earlier. It would be again taking that 

staff from DoL that performs those functions and using them under 

the fourth administration. Also, veterans requiring education services and employment services would go one place. They would go 

to the VA and they would deal with that administration for all of 

those needs. 

Mr. WEIDMAN. Twenty five percent of DVOPs are supposed to be 

out-stationed at another facility, veterans facility, they have never 

hit that 25 percent of DVOPs nationally at other facilities. And 

where you really need them is in the VA vet centers or readjustment counseling centers and we now have 280 of those across the 

country. Without the employment function as part of the treatment 

modality and the treatment team, the team is flying on one wing, 

if you will, because all of the efforts of the vet centers, good vet 

centers over the years has been to keep people employed and to 

keep families together. People went to the hospital if they wanted 

to get comp, they went to the vet centers to get well and to keep 

their families together and to keep their jobs. So if it is all part of 

VA then it will be much easier to have DVOPs stationed in those 

vet centers and as part of the treatment team, and same with 

VocRehab, which are supposed to be working together. It happens 

maybe three or four places in the country where they really work 

together all the time. 

Mrs. RADEWAGEN. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Mr. McNerney, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Weidman, I appreciate when you spelled out that you 

thought the employment services should be run out of the VA, but 

at the same time the VA often drives you crazy and it is a big bureaucracy, you know. Do you believe that the VA is improving now 

and in such a way that it could take on another function like that 

and actually be effective? Or do you think it is just in the nature 

of the VA since it is focused, as Mr. Leghorn said, toward veterans 

that would make it more effective? 

Mr. WEIDMAN. Is it actually going to work? The answer to that, 

Congressman, is I don’t know. Do I know that what we have now 

ain’t working? I do know that what we have now ain’t working. We 

have made all kinds of suggestions, we have tried to get legislation 

through that would have money follow performance, and we have 

failed on that for the last 20 years. So it is time to try something 

new, because the young people separating need a job now, they 

don’t need a job in 15 years. By that time the die will be cast, they 

will either have a career or they won’t. 

So it is not just putting it at VA, we resisted that when they 

tried to do that in 2003 of just throwing it over there under 


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VocRehab. And VocRehab has improved dramatically in the last 15 

years. But it still needs to be a separate division, if you will, and 

away from comp and pen and away from the gimme mind set and 

with a whole new corporate culture. So it is the corporate culture 

that you are talking about and the focus on accountability of this 

number. This number also holds managers accountable. It is not 

just the DVOPs and LVERs, it holds the whole operation accountable and if it is all under VA. 

Mr. McNerney. Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. Miss Rice, you are recognized for five 

minutes. No further questions? 

If there are no further questions, I want to thank everyone here 

today for taking time to come out and share your views on the 

President’s proposed fiscal year 2016 budget for vets, and for discussing how we can better improve employment outreach at the 

local level and long-term outcomes for our service members and 

veterans. 

And, Mr. Weidman, if you have the big one here, I will do my 

best to bring you back. 

Mr. WEIDMAN. I am grateful for that, sir. 

Dr WENSTRUP. Thank you. And, finally, I ask unanimous consent 

that all members have five legislative days to revise and extend 

their remarks and include extraneous materials. 

Without objection, so ordered. 

This hearing is now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 4:02 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 


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APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN BRAD WENSTRUP

Good afternoon everyone and I want to welcome you all to the Subcommittee on 

Economic Opportunity’s hearing today entitled, ‘‘A Review of the President’s Fiscal 

Year 2016 Budget Request for the Department of Labor’s Veteran Employment and 

Training Service (VETS).’’ 

DoL’s VETS manages several programs for servicemembers and veterans alike. 

Within VETS is the Jobs for Veterans State Grant program which funds Disabled 

Veterans Outreach Program Specialists—DVOPS—and Local Veterans Employment 

Representatives—LVERs; the Homeless Veteran Retraining Program which provides 

grants to providers for job training services and stand downs for homeless veterans; 

the employment workshop portion of the Transition Assistance Program (TAP); enforcement of the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act 

(USERRA); and the promotion and outreach for veterans hiring throughout the 

country and Federal Government. 

These are all very critical services and they are all vital to our servicemembers’ 

and veterans’ wellbeing after they leave active duty. As more and more men and 

women are returning from deployments or separating from the military, it is imperative that we place a focus on these individuals and the services that we provide 

to them through VETS’ programs while also helping veterans of past conflicts who 

face under-employment and unemployment issues. 

Unfortunately, for years, it has been clear that Senior Leaders at the Department 

of Labor do not put the focus that is needed on the Veterans Employment and 

Training Service. 

And to be quite frank, many in the veterans’ community have said over and over 

again that more often than not, DoL has ignored the agency all together. This is 

not just a current issue and it is not a political one, this seems to have been a trend 

throughout many administrations, regardless of party. 

I know we can all agree that this country’s veterans deserve to be the top priority, 

yet I worry that DoL does not always prioritize and coordinate their services for veterans as well as they could and should. The President’s FY 2016 budget for VETS 

is once again basically flat-lined while the rest of the Department is not. The budget 

is the ultimate list of an Administration’s priorities and its clear where DoL’s ‘‘true’’ 

priorities lie. 

In addition to reviewing the President’s proposed budget for VETS, I also believe 

today’s hearing is an important opportunity to examine DoL’s ability to measure 

long-term outcomes and the Department’s efforts to coordinate with the Department 

of Veterans Affairs and the efficiency of JVSG–VETS’ state grant program. 

JVSG, which funds DVOPS and LVERs, has been a constant concern of this subcommittee over the years, and time and time again we have heard concerns from 

the VSO community on the outreach, or lack thereof, that these DVOPS and LVERs 

are doing to help veterans find jobs. What is truly upsetting is that despite spending 

millions and millions of dollars on this program over the years, VETS is still unable 

to accurately track if the services provided by DVOPS and LVERs led to a veteran 

finding meaningful employment. 

Reading through testimony for today’s hearing, and previous hearings held by this 

subcommittee, it is clear that VSOs and other stakeholders are ready for a change; 

a concrete change, to bring better coordination between DoL and VA, better accountability and efficiency within VETS’ programs, and better data to show what VETS 

is doing to provide positive long term outcomes for our nation’s veterans. 

We have been told by VETS time and time again that this time it will be different, and that this time they have a seat at the table at the Department of Labor. 

But it doesn’t seem that anything is ever different. As the old saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. 

In this same vein, it appears that many are pushing to create a 4th administration at VA and move VETS out of DoL to VA, a concept that has been discussed 

and included in legislation in previous Congresses. I look forward to hearing more 

about this proposal mentioned by the VSOS as well as other avenues we can explore 

to improve employment opportunities and consistency of services provided by DoL 

and the State Grant Program across the country. 


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Before I turn it over to the Ranking Member, I just want to reiterate that I believe that the new Senior Leadership team at VETS is trying to turn the ship 

around and by and large the employees at VETS do good work, but they are only 

a small piece of the puzzle at an agency as large as DoL. The problem is that no 

matter how small of a player VETS is within the larger mission of the Department 

the services they provide to our nation’s veterans are too important to be overlooked. 

That is our challenge here today and I look forward to hearing from everyone 

about how we can improve the performance and focus of this program. 


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QUESTION FOR THE RECORD, PAUL VARELA, DAV 

Question 1: 

Do you think the state level veteran employment specialists funded by DOL are 

a means of last resort for veterans seeking employment? 

Answer: 

Whether state level employment specialists are considered a first or last resort 

is difficult to assess. Nowadays, veterans seek employment through the internet. If 

a veteran seeks assistance through a state employment specialist, that contact could 

be an indication that other avenues of securing employment were unsuccessful, so 

the veteran is seeking a more hands-on approach. 

Question 2: 

If we were to start all over, and build a new transition and veteran employment 

program that would be funded at $233 million dollars, how could it differ from the 

program we have today? 

Answer: 

The current TAP GPS program is a good model. If we were to start all over, however, improvements would most likely need to be made. When the TAP GPS program was initiated, VSOs lost a major foothold. Prior to TAP GPS, DAV’s Transition 

Service Officers (TSOs) performed additional services, free of charge, during TAP 

benefit briefing classes. 

Our TSOs provided presentations at these briefings to explain the value of VSO 

representation in navigating the complexities of the Department of Veterans Affairs 

(VA). DAV TSOs also performed treatment record reviews to determine whether 

medical evidence supported a disability claim. Also, private interviews were conducted to ascertain if the service member had existing or potential disabilities that 

may not have been disclosed. 

VSOs should be an equal partner in the TAP GPS program and if it were to start 

over from scratch, we would have been part of the plan all along, not an afterthought or viewed as an inconvenience or an intrusion. However, we see our role 

growing and there is an opportunity to increase our involvement. 

There would have been heavy utilization of web-based TAP GPS involvement to 

ensure that separating service members and their dependents could access information remotely. This would not supplement the requirement to participate in a class 

environment, but function to complement the TAP GPS program. The information 

would also be made available on-line to veterans so they could go back and review 

the information at a later time if they chose to do so. 

With respect to employment programs, we also recommend that all services and 

programs be consolidated in a new fourth administration within the VA that would 

include the transfer and integration of the Department of Labor’s Veterans Employment and Training Service as discussed in our prepared testimony. 

Question 3: 

Do you believe that money spent on public media to highlight veterans’ positive 

characteristics and values to employers, would be money well spent? 

Answer: 

Yes. Also, it would be good to showcase veterans who are currently working in 

the private sector and other contributions they are making within our communities. 

Question 4: 

Do you think the $175 million requested for veteran employment specialists reflects a high expectation for a return on investment? 

Answer: 

No. As stated in our testimony, this flat-line actually does not signify any expectations for the program. Furthermore, with nearly 250,000 service members leaving 

active duty each year, employment services must be adequately resourced to meet 

their needs. 

Question 5: 

There have been some conversations about creating a fourth administration at the 

VA, to handle the veterans’ employment programs currently administrated by the 

Department of Labor. Many members of this committee and many of our friends in 

the VSO community have been critical of aspects of the VA in almost every hearing 

or meeting we’ve held. Do any of you have concerns about adding to the VA’s workload? 

Answer: 


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It is true that VSOs and others have been critical when it comes to certain aspects of the VA; at times criticisms are warranted, such as in the case of some very 

harsh criticism regarding the change in policy requiring the use of standardized 

forms. In fact, this change is so egregious that DAV will be filing a federal lawsuit 

against the VA regarding these changes to the claims and appeals process. This is 

a prime example in which such harsh criticism is warranted. 

In terms of creating a fourth administration within the VA, while this would add 

to VA’s overall workload, it would also add commensurate resources through shifting DOL’s current VETS resources to VA. The added responsibilities within the new 

administration would be supported by the additional staff and resources transferred. 

In addition, it would reorganize and rebalance VA’s workload by removing economic 

opportunity programs from within the VBA and placing them within the new administration. There is also the added benefit of focusing more closely on the claims 

and appeals aspects of VBA’s mission. 

Question 6: 

Have any of you looked at how different states utilize the grant funding they receive from these programs? Are there some states that are more efficient and have 

better results? Does the DoL effectively monitor and audit how the states are using 

their funding? 

Answer: 

We have not looked at individual states and how they utilize funds for the programs and cannot comment on the success or failures using a state-by-state analysis. 

To date, we have seen no evidence of comprehensive monitoring pertaining to the 

use of funds provided to states through DoL’s Jobs for Veterans State Grant (JVSG) 

program. The JVSG facilitates DVOP and LVER programs throughout the states 

and there has been concern that accountability and oversight of state DVOP and 

LVERs is inadequate. 

Furthermore, it is essential that DVOPs and LVERs focus on veteran-related employment activities. Routine oversight must be performed to ensure they stay focused on improving employment opportunities and outcomes for veterans. 

Æ 


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