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98–573 2016

A REVIEW OF HIGHER EDUCATION 

OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE NEWEST GENERATION 

OF VETERANS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC 

OPPORTUNITY 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

TUESDAY, MARCH 17, 2015 

Serial No. 114–10 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 


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COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

JEFF MILLER, Florida, Chairman 

DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado 

GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida, Vice-Chairman 

DAVID P. ROE, Tennessee 

DAN BENISHEK, Michigan 

TIM HUELSKAMP, Kansas 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio 

JACKIE WALORSKI, Indiana 

RALPH ABRAHAM, Louisiana 

LEE ZELDIN, New York 

RYAN COSTELLO, Pennsylvania 

AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American 

Samoa 

MIKE BOST, Illinois 

CORRINE BROWN, Florida, Ranking 

Minority Member 

MARK TAKANO, California 

JULIA BROWNLEY, California 

DINA TITUS, Nevada 

RAUL RUIZ, California 

ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire 

BETO O’ROURKE, Texas 

KATHLEEN RICE, New York 

TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

JON TOWERS, Staff Director 

DON PHILLIPS, Democratic Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY 

BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio, Chairman 

LEE ZELDIN, New York 

AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American 

Samoa 

RYAN COSTELLO, Pennsylvania 

MIKE BOST, Illinois 

MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 

Member 

DINA TITUS, Nevada 

KATHLEEN RICE, New York 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public hearing records 

of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs are also published in electronic form. The printed 

hearing record remains the official version. Because electronic submissions are used to 

prepare both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process of converting 

between various electronic formats may introduce unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the current publication process and should diminish as the process 

is further refined. 


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C O N T E N T S 

Tuesday, March 17, 2015 

Page 

A Review of Higher Education Opportunities for the Newest Generation of 

Veterans ................................................................................................................ 1 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Brad Wenstrup, Chairman ...................................................................................... 1 

Mark Takano, Ranking Member ............................................................................ 2 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 31 

WITNESSES 

Mr. Terence Harrison, Manager, Veterans Programs and Services, The University of Cincinnati ............................................................................................ 4 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 31 

Mr. Raymond C. Kelly, Director, National Legislative Service, Veterans of 

Foreign Wars of the United States ..................................................................... 6 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 33 

Mr. Christopher Neiweem, Legislative Associate, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America .................................................................................................. 7 

Mr. Marc A. Barker, President, National Association of Veterans’s Program 

Administrators ..................................................................................................... 9 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 36 

Trustee William Withrow, Board of Trustees, Peralta Community College 

District .................................................................................................................. 11 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 37 

MG Robert M. Worley II USAF (Ret.), Director Education Service VBA, U.S. 

Department of Veterans Affairs .......................................................................... 23 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 40 

FOR THE RECORD 

The American Legion .............................................................................................. 52 

SAVES ...................................................................................................................... 62 

RAND Corporation .................................................................................................. 68 


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A REVIEW OF HIGHER EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE NEWEST GENERATION OF 

VETERANS 

Tuesday, March 17, 2015 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:14 p.m., in Room 

334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Brad Wenstrup [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Wenstrup, Costello, Radewagen, 

Takano, Titus, Rice, McNerney. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN BRAD WENSTRUP 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, good afternoon, everyone. I want to welcome you all to the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity’s hearing today entitled A Review of Higher Education Opportunities for 

the Newest Generation of Veterans. 

VA’s education and training programs have been credited with 

successfully transitioning and readjusting returning 

servicemembers for generations. And it has been reported that the 

post-World War II GI Bill educated ten million returning veterans, 

among them 14 Nobel Prize and 24 Pulitzer Prize winners, three 

presidents, a dozen senators, and three Supreme Court justices. 

As an Iraq War veteran myself, I hope and expect that our current generation of veterans will match or exceed those numbers. 

And the best way to ensure the new greatest generation flourishes 

is to make sure that the almost $15 billion a year we spend on 

Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits is protected for future generations to 

come. 

I would like to outline a few ways I think we can protect the GI 

Bill. First, we need to ensure that claims for benefits are processed 

accurately and efficiently. Students can’t successfully complete a 

degree program if red tape and unnecessary delays impact payment 

of tuition, fees, and living stipends. 

I was encouraged to learn that the VA already processes a good 

amount of education claims without the need of any human intervention and they do that with great accuracy. However, I am concerned that once again the President’s budget did not request additional funds to finish the job and automate the processing of original claims as well. We must make some investments in this system 

to ensure benefits are delivered in a timely fashion. 


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Secondly, it has become clear to me and most in the veteran community that there simply have not been enough metrics to track 

the return on investment through student success. I am encouraged by the collaboration between VA and advocacy groups to promote the Million Records Project that, for the first time, tracks student success. 

I look forward to hearing more today about the newest iteration 

of this project and other ways to track student outcomes. 

The final way to protect the GI Bill is to require additional transparency on outcomes for students in schools. In that vein, I am also 

looking forward to hearing our witnesses’ views on VA’s Comparison Tool and Complaint System. I know that VA has completed 

these congressionally mandated tools on a shoestring budget and I 

am interested to hear more about their future plans for these programs. 

As has been said before, in the end, it is up to the student to 

make the right choice and use their hard-earned benefits wisely. It 

is our job to ensure that they have the tools that they need to be 

successful and to make the right decisions, to help both themselves 

and their families. 

I want to take a moment of personal privilege and welcome Mr. 

Terence Harrison from the University of Cincinnati. The University 

of Cincinnati has taken a lead role in providing the best services 

and benefits to student veterans and I want to personally thank 

Terence Harrison for being here today with us to talk about their 

success. 

I would also like to take a minute to just mention that I joined 

the Army Reserves in 1998 and when I did, there was a young sergeant there who helped indoctrinate me to the military. This is 

someone who I gained great respect for and he was respected by 

all the members of our unit, a young man of great character and 

leadership. And I am not surprised that he sits here today. 

So welcome, Mr. Harrison, and we look forward to hearing from 

you. 

The Ranking Member is now here and if he is ready, I can recognize him for his opening remarks. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. Mr. Takano. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your consideration. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER MARK TAKANO 

Well, we live in a moment in history where one-half of one percent of our Nation is serving in the military. Compare that to the 

12 percent that served during World War II. There is a growing 

gap between the shared expectations of those who have served 

versus those who haven’t. 

Many veterans in our colleges face a range of issues not faced by 

their classmates. They may be older than their fellow classmates, 

outside of the classroom environment or for a long time and in 

many instances, the first member of their family to set foot in a 

college environment. 

We can all agree education benefits are earned for the veterans’ 

selfless service to our country, but what does that mean? Does it 

mean that veterans have the right to receive this benefit and exVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:03 Apr 12, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\98-573.TXT PAT

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pend it in any way they see fit or did Congress intend for this benefit to assist veterans in a successful transition into the civilian 

workforce? 

As most people in this room are aware, our veterans perform a 

wide range of occupations while in the military. In the Army, for 

instance, for every fighting soldier, there are 2.5 soldiers providing 

support in the rear. These supportive roles can be in logistics, administration, or preparing and serving food. This means that the 

country and the VA must serve veterans with a wide range of experience. 

Some experience transfers well into educational environments 

while others do not. To all of them, I say we have your back. As 

a former educator, I am a believer in the power of education. Those 

who choose to pursue an education should feel good about their 

choice and where it will lead them. 

I want to take a moment to commend my colleagues who introduced and supported the Transparency Act. This bipartisan legislation from the 112th Congress paved the way for much needed insight into the quality of different schools and will continue to provide more insight over the coming years. 

For instance, the legislation required VA’s GI Bill Comparison 

Tool which servicemembers are already using to understand which 

schools best fit their needs, cost too much, and clarify institutions 

that may be a poor choice in comparison to others. 

I also want to highlight a piece of legislation I recently joined 

Congressman Lois Frankel and Congressman Gus Bilirakis in introducing, the Veteran Education Empowerment Act. This bill 

would reauthorize and improve a grant program through the Department of Education that provides colleges and universities 

across the country with the funds necessary to establish new veteran student centers and to improve and operate existing ones. 

However, we still have much work to do. Our Nation’s heroes are 

being sold the idea that all they need to do is get a degree from 

anywhere and jobs will be presented to them on a silver platter. 

Too many times I have heard the story of a soldier who uses his 

or her education benefits at questionable and expensive schools 

only to find that employers aren’t impressed. We as a country and 

more importantly the states have a role to play in insisting that 

institutions provide positive outcomes for veterans. We also have a 

fiscal duty to ensure that government dollars are not being 

misspent at higher educational rates with substandard outcomes. 

To those who are struggling to complete their educations, we 

have another obligation. In 2014, over 83,000 students using the GI 

Bill had to take remedial courses while exhausting their education 

benefits. Some also take on debt before they receive a diploma, a 

situation the Post-9/11 GI Bill was intended to avoid. 

We need to help servicemembers and veterans understand and 

address the education gaps prior to exhausting their education benefits ideally while they are serving in the military. 

And I thank the witnesses with us today for being here to give 

us their insight into these important issues and I look forward to 

the testimony. 

Mr. Chairman, sorry for my tardiness. I yield back. 


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[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER MARK TAKANO

APPEARS IN THE APPENDIX] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. You are fine. Thank you. 

I thank the ranking member and now welcome our first panel to 

the witness table. And today we welcome Mr. Terence Harrison 

with the University of Cincinnati; Mr. Ray Kelley with the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States; Mr. Christopher 

Neiweem with Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America; Mr. 

Marc Barker with the National Association of Veterans’ Program 

Administrators; and, finally, we have Mr. William Withrow with 

the Peralta Community College District in California. 

Mr. Harrison, you are now recognized for five minutes. 

STATEMENT OF TERENCE HARRISON 

Mr. HARRISON. Thank you. 

Good afternoon. I would like to thank you, Chairman Wenstrup, 

Ranking Member Takano, and Members of the Subcommittee on 

Economic Opportunity, for inviting me to participate in today’s 

hearing on the Department of Veterans Affairs Administration and 

its education programs as well as the educational and training 

needs of our newest generation of veterans. 

My name is Terence Harrison. I am the manager for Veterans 

Programs and Services at the University of Cincinnati. 

The University of Cincinnati or UC is a public research university enrolling more than 43,600 undergraduate and graduate students in 2014. Our campus is made up of students from all 50 

states and from 100 countries from around the world. 

Recognized as a military friendly school, UC is both a leader and 

champion in military and veteran-related issues. Currently UC enrolls about 2,250 military affiliated students including active duty, 

members of the national guard and reserves, veterans and family 

members. 

Of this total, 1,007 students are using GI Bill benefits, and this 

is of the 2014 semester. With anticipated drawn down of activeduty personnel, the University of Cincinnati is energetically positioning itself to accommodate these students. 

UC adheres closely to the VA’s principles of excellence and providing a high-quality educational experience tailored to the unique 

needs of veteran students. UC has instituted a number of resources 

and programs to best assist our youngest generation of veterans. 

To assist veteran students with administrative needs on campus, 

UC has a centralized veterans’ one-stop shop located in the same 

building as admissions and registration. With most of our student 

services for veterans in the same buildings, these students do not 

have to navigate a large campus to find the right offices to meet 

their needs. 

To foster a sense of community and ensure a smooth transition 

to the civilian life, UC is home to the Ohio Beta Chapter of Omega 

Delta Sigma. This co-ed brethren-only fraternity has assisted 

countless veterans in their transition to the University of Cincinnati by providing social support and peer-to-peer mentoring. 

Additionally, to assist prospective students and current recipients of the Post-9/11 GI Bill, we are pleased that the VA has developed a GI Bill Comparison Tool and a VA feedback system. This 


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allows students to compare their benefits across institutions. It is 

a valuable tool. 

To ensure that our veteran students continue to understand and 

best utilize their GI Bill benefits upon enrolling, UC has a vet success campus counselor here on our campus. This resource allows 

veterans to have any GI Bill-related questions answered in a timely manner. And UC is only one of three Ohio schools that have 

such a counselor. 

To meet the medical needs of student veterans, UC’s proximity 

to the VA hospital allows for students to quickly receive any required medical services. UC is a partner with the VA sponsored 

Veterans Integration to Academic Leadership Program or VITAL. 

Veterans with psychological issues can meet with a VA clinical 

psychologist on campus or if they choose at the VA hospital. Additionally, the University of Cincinnati’s Center of Psychological 

Services or CPS has a professionally trained and licensed staff that 

can address the needs of student veterans free of charge. 

In addition to these campus-based services, UC remains on the 

cutting edge of interdisciplinary research and training that benefits 

the Nation’s active-duty military, veterans and their families. 

For instance, UC is participating in a joint study with the VA regarding the lingering effects of posttraumatic stress disorder. This 

ongoing study which opened in 2010 is charged with seeing which 

types of therapy would be beneficial to those veterans who experience PTSD. 

UC also fosters strong partnerships with the military including 

the Center for Sustainment of Trauma and Readiness Skills or C– 

STARS, a joint training program between the Air Force and the 

University of Cincinnati Medical Center. C–STARS pairs both civilian Air Force medical professionals and trauma and critical care 

through simulation training. 

UC is also an active participant in the Tri-State Vets Educational Group. This group is comprised of veteran representatives 

from nine universities and colleges across the region and meets 

quarterly to discuss best practices. Additionally, they develop programs that will improve the quality of life for the veterans on the 

respective campuses. 

With regard to implementation of Section 701 of the Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014, UC does not anticipate any obstacles in offering the Fry Scholarship to spouses of deceased or permanently disabled veterans. At UC, we currently have 

three students receiving the Fry Scholarship. 

And as for implementing Section 702, UC has offered in-state 

tuition to all student veterans since 2009. Because the Ohio GI 

promises, all the veteran has to do is show proof of residency and 

the school will immediately grant in-state tuition. 

One problem that is slowly eroding is that the veteran does not 

realize that they have to apply for residency and this has been a 

priority for us for years. And I encourage all schools seeking to 

meet the requirements to look to UC as an example. 

So in closing, I want to thank you for allowing me to share the 

great work that the University of Cincinnati is doing to accommodate current and future veteran students and their families. 


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I look forward to working with you as you expand services for 

veteran students and, again, offer the University of Cincinnati as 

an example to inform policy and to guide schools in shaping their 

programs. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF TERENCE HARRISON APPEARS IN

THE APPENDIX] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you, Mr. Harrison. 

Mr. Kelley, you are now recognized for five minutes. 

STATEMENT OF RAYMOND C. KELLEY 

Mr. KELLEY. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Takano, on behalf 

of the Veterans of Foreign Wars and our Auxiliaries, thanks for the 

opportunity to testify today. 

Over the past few years, the VFW has worked with this subcommittee to provide college readiness and access, and safeguarding student veterans against fraud, waste, and abuse. 

The VFW remains concerned that far too few veterans take advantage of their earned education benefits and the veterans who 

believe they were treated unfairly by higher education still lack the 

viable tools for swift intervention and adjudication. 

Congress and VA have worked to make veterans educated consumers and provide them a consumer feedback system so complaints can be lodged and actions can be taken when necessary. 

While these tools have provided significant assistance to student 

veterans, the VFW worries that all too often veterans use a Comparison Tool only after they have enrolled in school and that reviews of complaints logged in the consumer feedback system are 

not responded to in a timely manner. 

Through VFW’s One Student Veteran resource, we have worked 

with veterans who have questions or unresolved complaints with 

their education benefits. The vast majority of these inquiries are directed towards eligibility and paying for college. 

However, the most concerning inquiries deal with VA benefit 

overpayment and debt collection. When an overpayment occurs, VA 

sends a notification of overpayment and provides a couple options 

for repayment. If the veteran is unable to make a timely repayment, his or her debt is sent to collections and VA will garnish payment until the debt is repaid. 

To eliminate this stress, the VFW proposes presenting veterans 

with three options for repayment when they are notified of an overpayment. They can either elect to repay it immediately; arrange repayment over several months; or have their months of benefit eligibility reduced by the number of months that must be repaid. This 

will allow veterans some flexibility in repaying the debt without a 

fear of financial instability. 

The Department of Defense was tasked with designing three voluntary track curricula for transitioning servicemembers to include 

the accessing higher education track. The education track has gone 

through several changes since its inception and is a significant improvement over past iterations. 

The VFW remains concerned that many transitioning 

servicemembers will not have access to a classroom proctor discussion as part of TAP. As the VFW visits military installations, we 

continue to hear that small unit commanders are reluctant to allow 


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junior servicemembers to participate in this program. This has a 

direct impact on those servicemembers who likely need the training 

the most,—those who are first-term enlisted servicemembers. 

This is why the VFW supported last year’s provision to make 

participation in the education track mandatory for college-bound 

transitioning servicemembers. However, this access problem cannot 

be solely through policy initiatives. It will likely take a major cultural shift within the military. That is why the VFW continues to 

advocate for transitional training throughout the military life cycle 

and ensuring veterans still have access to training and resources 

after leaving the military. 

Only a few years ago, the VFW recognized that military life often 

precludes recently separating servicemembers and their dependents from satisfying strict residency and physical presence requirements for in-state tuition, thereby often hindering access to quality 

cost-effective education. 

Erasing the in-state requirement for veterans and their dependents has been a top priority for the VFW and with the passage of 

VACAA, we are now moving closer to making that a reality. However, implementation of in-state tuition isn’t without its road 

blocks. We need to ensure that states that are having trouble with 

implementation are granted the extension waiver. We also need to 

ensure that states also include eligible dependents in their implementation plan for in-state tuition. 

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony and I am happy to 

answer any questions you or the committee may have. 

[The prepared statement of Raymond C. Kelley appears in the 

Appendix] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, thank you, Mr. Kelley. 

Mr. Neiweem, you are now recognized for five minutes. 

STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER NEIWEEM 

Mr. NEIWEEM. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished Members of the subcommittee, on behalf of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and our nearly 400,000 members 

and supporters, thank you for the opportunity to share our views 

with you at today’s hearing examining higher education opportunities for the newest generation of veterans. 

IAVA is proud to have played a leading role in the fight for the 

Post-9/11 GI Bill helping to build a united front among veterans’ 

organizations and a bipartisan consensus in Congress. Today preserving and defending this critical benefit remains a top priority for 

our organization and our members. 

There are three overarching themes rolled into the topic of this 

hearing that stand out in the feedback we have received from IAVA 

members from across the country. 

First, our members’ feedback on the Post-9/11 GI Bill has been 

overwhelmingly positive. Recent survey data indicated that more 

than half of those surveyed or their dependents have used the Post9/11 GI Bill and a majority reported a good or excellent experience 

in using the benefit. 

However, more than one-third of those that have used the Post9/11 GI Bill reported being impacted by late payments. In fact, 


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many respondents reported delays with more than three payments. 

Student veterans often rely heavily or entirely on their education 

benefits to support themselves and even one missed or late payment can have a detrimental impact on their ability to focus on 

their academics. 

To the VA’s credit, nearly half of those who receive late payments did believe that VA assisted in quickly resolving their 

issues. It is encouraging to see VA stepping in quickly to fix errors 

and address these issues as they surface. However, late payments 

continue to occur and it is critical that VA take corrective action 

to eliminate these occurrences altogether. 

IAVA’s Rapid Response Referral Program or triple RP frequently 

assists Post-9/11 veterans who are experiencing issues such as 

these and we will continue to assist veterans and the VA as well 

in any way that we can. We appreciate VA’s work in this area, but 

insist the department achieve consistent and timely delivery on 

this earned benefit. 

Secondly, turning to on-campus support programs, it is important 

to recognize that servicemembers and veterans are among the most 

driven, disciplined, and motivated individuals, but transitioning 

from active-duty military to a college campus can be disorienting 

and frustrating, especially for those who have recently returned 

from one or more combat deployments. 

Many colleges across the country have already created and maintain successful student veteran support operations. Rutgers University, for example, has five staff members solely dedicated to 

serving student vets. This staff supports the more than 1,000 veterans in the Rutgers system which has showed high academic retention rates. 

The programs at colleges around the country we hear work the 

best typically share some common characteristics. One such feature 

of successful models incorporate the veteran peer-to-peer outreach 

support approach. Veteran alumni or student veteran leaders creating social networks often result in strong academic bonds among 

the student veteran cohort and support meaningful long-term connections that help them succeed in the future. 

Congress, the private sector, and nonprofit organizations should 

continue to invest in promoting on-campus support programs for 

veterans attending college given that these programs have the potential to greatly increase veterans’ chances for success both academically and in the workforce after graduation. 

And, lastly, the VA complaint system. This system was developed 

to allow student veterans receiving GI Bill benefits to submit feedback or complaints in the event that they felt their school wasn’t 

representing their best interest or they had a problem and that it 

did not comply with the principles of excellence required by President Obama’s Executive Order 13607. 

The system is currently structured so that VA receives a complaint through an automated intake mechanism. It then notifies 

both the school and the student that the complaint has been received. At that point, the VA acts as a sort of middle man until the 

complaint is or the issue is resolved. 

Although the intake process is automated, the rest of the process 

is lax and inefficient. When a notification of a complaint is issued 


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to a school, corrective action often takes weeks or months to resolve 

even common issues. Schools can generate wholly insufficient responses and then classify those responses as resolutions. 

To sum up the scenario here, Mr. Chairman, there are currently 

more than 1,000 backlog complaints and the schools are driving the 

process. IAVA recommends that two actions occur to correct this. 

The first is automate the entire process from front to back. The 

complaints when they are received, they need to be stored in the 

same central system so that it is centralized and it is easy to access. 

And the second thing is VA needs to jump in the driver’s seat 

and not let the schools drive this. We recommend they set the expectation that these complaints are resolved within two weeks. 

That way, we are not dealing with 30 days, 60 days or worse which 

we have seen now. 

Mr. Chairman, thank you again for the opportunity to offer our 

views on this and we look forward to any questions you have. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER NEIWEEM APPEARS

IN THE APPENDIX] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, thank you, Mr. Neiweem. 

Mr. Barker, you are now recognized for five minutes. 

STATEMENT OF MARC A. BARKER 

Mr. BARKER. Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and 

Members of the subcommittee, the National Association of Veterans’ Program Administrators is pleased to be invited to provide 

comments this afternoon. 

NAVPA is a nationally recognized nonprofit organization founded 

in 1975 by school certifying officials. Our organization represents 

close to 400 education institutions nationwide. 

NAVPA recognizes the significant higher education opportunities 

that are afforded this generation of veterans. We are committed in 

partnership with the Department of Veteran Affairs to ensure the 

success of the programs that are funded. 

A year ago, Student Veterans of America published the Million 

Records Project. One of the clear observations that emerged from 

the data in this study was the unique nontraditional education 

pathways that veterans take. Student veterans are more likely to 

transfer or change institutions and take longer than traditional college students to complete their education credentials. This makes 

defining success and measuring outcomes of veterans challenging. 

The GI Bill Comparison Tool is an important breakthrough in 

providing information to potential student veterans. However, it 

has significant limitations. The graduation rate used in the tool is 

the Department of Education’s metric based on the Integrated 

Post-Secondary Education Data System, iPEDS. 

The iPEDS graduation cohort is limited to first-time, full-time 

students. Therefore, students who arrive on campus with transfer 

credits or start at one institution but graduate from another are 

unrepresented in the graduation rate. 

Based on the American Council on Education’s recommendations, 

servicemembers’ and veterans’ military transcripts are evaluated 

for transfer credit. If credit is awarded, the student will never be 


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represented in the graduation cohort rate currently reported in the 

Comparison Tool. 

Being mindful of the SVA’s Million Records Project, the metric 

used in the GI Bill Comparison Tool does not account for the 

unique experience and enrollment patterns of student veterans, 

specifically the arrival on campus with credits from the military 

transcript and the high transfer rate between institutions, thus 

making the iPEDS graduation data not truly reflective of the efforts of the student veterans or the institutions providing their education. 

Rather than the current graduation metric used in the Comparison Tool, course completion rates would be a better indicator of veteran students’ success. While graduation rates are an important indicator, NAVPA believes that veterans deserve a more valid Comparison Tool which utilizes relevant data and metrics and urges 

Congress to ensure that the VA has adequate funding resources 

and time to develop such a tool. 

NAVPA endorses the feedback system. We support the increased 

scrutiny by the VA for validated serious complaints including riskbased program reviews. We ask that the notification follow-up and 

the resolution process currently be improved. 

Our membership reports that once they provided feedback for a 

complaint lodged against their school, resolution information is not 

currently being provided by the VA. 

It is also worth noting that there are significant concerns that all 

complaints whether valid or invalid against institutions is available 

in the school’s summary section of the Comparison Tool. 

It is the position of NAVPA that only validated complaints be 

listed along with the summary of corrective actions taken. 

The Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014 is 

viewed by NAVPA as a significant commitment from our country 

to our most deserving population. Section 702 of the act requiring 

that all public institutions of learning that are participating in VAapproved programs charge in-state tuition and fees to covered individuals as described in the act is indeed supported by NAVPA 

membership. 

NAVPA is concerned that the implementation date of July 1, 

2015 may not allow all state governments to pass legislation that 

will bring their states into compliance with Section 702. 

We understand that the VA is in the process of developing waiver criteria for states that are actively pursuing changes to become 

compliant. It is our position that waivers may create a situation of 

inequity between state institutions. 

We respectfully request that this committee strongly consider 

House Resolution 475 which includes moving the implementation 

date for Section 702 to July 1, 2016. 

And our membership would like to commend the Department of 

Veteran Affairs for their work in successfully implementing Section 

701 of the Choice Act. Our member schools have reported that the 

implementation of Section 701 including transferring covered individuals from other VA education benefits to the Fry Scholar has 

been handled very well by the VA. 


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In closing, on behalf of the membership institutions of NAVPA, 

I thank you for the opportunity to discuss these important issues 

with the committee today. 

[The prepared statement of Marc A. Barker appears in the Appendix] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, thank you, Mr. Barker. 

Now, Mr. Withrow, you are recognized for five minutes. 

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM WITHROW 

Mr. WITHROW. Mr. Chairman, Members of the committee, thank 

you so very much for the opportunity to appear before you today. 

I am pleased to have this chance to discuss some of the programs 

that Peralta College has developed to assist veterans. 

My name is Bill Withrow and I am a member of the Peralta 

Board of Trustees and I am also a veteran. 

The Peralta district includes four colleges located on the east side 

of the San Francisco Bay and serves over 30,000 students. We take 

pride in supporting the educational needs of veterans through a 

comprehensive array of high-quality programs and services. 

However, not all of them take advantage of the GI educational 

benefits. Given our low cost, many veterans choose not to use their 

educational benefits while attending our colleges, saving them for 

when they transfer to the more expensive four-year universities 

and the opportunity for postgraduate education. 

But whether they are using their benefits or not, we still provide 

them with special assistance such as we provide up to six semester 

hours of credit for military education that can be used toward 

achieving an associate degree. 

We work with veterans to waive out-of-state tuition. Veterans receive priority first-in-line registration for classes and access to certified counselors. We enroll all newly-arrived veterans in a one unit 

semester-long orientation to college course that introduces them to 

college life and connects them to the services available to help 

them succeed. 

The Counseling Department offers transfer workshops to ease 

the transition, to ease the transition to four-year colleges and universities. 

We have a one-stop business and career center that provides free 

employment services to job seekers and employers. 

We provide space committed to veterans to allow them to interact and to relate to their peers. We also sponsor student clubs for 

veterans. 

As you can see, we value our veterans and provide services to 

make their experience successful, but we have some suggestions on 

ways to improve the existing educational program. 

First, there needs to be more recognition and support for remediation or developmental classes. I do understand that this is controversial, but over 70 percent of our students overall enrolling at 

the Peralta colleges need some level of developmental education to 

get up to speed to the college level standards. 

Veterans benefits cover six hours for developmental courses that 

are noncredit. Quite frankly, more is needed. Many students, especially veterans who may have been out of school for awhile, need 


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more than six hours to successfully take credit courses and gain 

the most out of them. 

Second, we recommend and provide more institutions to resources for colleges to be able to support their veteran populations. 

We have established a dean of equity and student success at the 

district level to provide a centralized way of tracking the progress 

of veterans. Peralta is funding this position out of its own resources. We believe that the VA could and should assist with this 

type of institutional support. 

Finally, we encourage the military services and the VA to provide more transition support for veterans who are discharged from 

active duty. 

In summary, Mr. Chairman, I recently met with a number of our 

veteran students and I am pleased to find that they were very satisfied at the education that they were receiving, the administrative 

support and the counseling, and that they felt that they were receiving a solid base for their educational and career goals. Veterans 

education programs are an ultimate win-win; a win for the student, 

and a win for the regional economic engines. 

Many of the certificate and workforce programs dovetail into the 

experiences the students have had in one of their services leading 

to rewarding careers such as auto technology, aviation engineering, 

and all of the allied health services. 

As I mentioned at the start of my testimony, I served as a veteran. I am a retired naval officer with over 24 years on active duty. 

I took an oath at each promotion, up to, and including captain, to 

protect the interests of enlisted personnel. That carries over into 

my retirement. I am personally dedicated to the well-being of our 

veterans and Peralta shares that deep sentiment. We look forward 

to working with this Committee to provide the very best educational experiences for our nation’s veterans. They have earned it. 

[The prepared statement of William Withrow appears in the Appendix] 

Dr. WENSTRUP. I will now yield myself five minutes for questions. 

First, I do want to say that I want to thank you very much for 

your input, for your advice, and for your sharing of ideas here 

today. I think it is very helpful as we move forward and try to 

make things as best we can. 

In that note, Mr. Harrison, can you tell me a little bit more about 

the tri-state vets education group and the benefit of sharing some 

of your best practices amongst other schools in the area? 

Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir. Our group is made up of veterans representatives from the nine colleges and universities in the tri-state 

region; that does include North Kentucky and Southeast Indiana, 

Cincinnati State, Northern Kentucky University, Thomas More 

College, Mount St. Joseph University, Ivy Tech, Wright State University, Gateway Community College, Xavier University, and, of 

course, ourselves, and also a representative from Veterans Upward 

Bound, they do join us. 

And what we do is we meet quarterly—in fact, we will be meeting at UC in a couple of weeks—and discuss best practices at each 

school, like what are we doing for our veterans. And why we do 

this is because it shows solidarity. We are not trying to poach stuVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:03 Apr 12, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\98-573.TXT PAT

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dents. We are doing this in an act of good faith because our attitude is they are first, school is second. So anything that is best for 

the veteran, we are going to try to push it to our schools, get our 

administration on board. 

And also, too, when we go out and talk about the different programs to the Reserve and National Guard units, we are showing 

them that, Hey, we are on board; we are not just looking at you 

as just a number, we are looking at you as an individual. So if this 

is not the school for you, you can call this veterans rep at this 

school and they are going to be able to help you. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Do you have a common number for the whole 

group that someone can call or is that through whichever institution they happen to engage first? 

Mr. HARRISON. Oh, we just give them the individual institution. 

So if it is, you know, Xavier University, we give them the vet rep’s 

name and their telephone, email address, and at the other schools, 

as well. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. 

I would like to ask a similar question, thereto, to you, Mr. 

Withrow. Is your college engaged in a situation like that or have 

you thought about that? 

Mr. WITHROW. We work closely with communities throughout the 

districts, if you will, throughout the state, at the community college 

level. We have workshops at least twice a year and working with 

veterans is a popular one right now, number one. 

Number two, we have joined with six other districts to participate in what we call a stand-down. A lot of support groups, as well 

as educational institutions, meet at the fairgrounds for the Alameda County, and it is a way to try and break into the community. 

Quite frankly, it is not easy to market to a veterans group; they 

are dispersed—even though we have somewhere north of 260,000 

veterans in the Bay Area, they are dispersed quite broadly and our 

method has been to, again, participate in a broad base, if you will. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. And I know that is a concern in many communities, especially some of the smaller communities, in my own district, where the community colleges have people in the area who 

have benefits and aren’t taking advantage of them. 

Along the lines of best practices, I am curious, Mr. Harrison, you 

mentioned that the University of Cincinnati has psychological services that are free of charge, can you tell me more about that and 

what kind of feedback you are getting, especially when you consider some of the issues that veterans face when they get out of the 

military. 

Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir. What we try to do is we have the University of Cincinnati CAPS program, which is a UC-based program 

and everybody there is a UC employee. And then we also have the 

VA service, the VITAL program. And the VA hospital is within 

walking distance of the university. So what that does is we give the 

veteran a choice, if they want to see a VA psychologist, they can 

go to the hospital. They can come—or the psychologist can come to 

the school and we will give them space to speak to that individual, 

be it my office or a conference room, we will give them that space. 

And the same with the CAPS, they do have a place where they can 

go. They have trained psychologist, and it is a holistic program. 


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So it is really just giving that veteran an option on who they 

want to see, but we work closely—— 

Dr. WENSTRUP. And are they taking advantage of that? 

Mr. HARRISON. Oh, yes. And one of the problems is that a lot of 

veterans may or may not be aware of the services because, you 

know, they get flooded with emails at school from their instructors 

or from whoever, so it is just trying to make sure that when they 

come to our window and we find out they have some type of issue, 

we direct them in the right location so we can take them to the Office of Disability Services who they can refer them to CAPS or we 

can call the VA counselor, if needed. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you very much. 

I know recognize the ranking member for any questions that he 

may have. 

Mr. TAKANO. Mr. Withrow, I would like to welcome someone 

who’s a community college trustee. I was one for 22 years in California, so I welcome this question about veterans, using their benefits. Do you believe that—do you have an idea of how many veterans are in need of remedial education, the number of students? 

Mr. WITHROW. Well, I can tell you that at least one college that 

we polled, the comparison tool showed 144 veterans using the GI 

Bill and we have identified 260 that we are focusing on. So it is 

about relationship at each of the colleges. 

Our, as you know, our tuition fees in California are pretty 

low—— 

Mr. TAKANO. Yes. 

Mr. WITHROW [continuing]. And so it does make it, for those who 

have the wherewithal, quite frankly, to live and subside, it does 

make sense to defer using the GI Bill until they pursue a four-year 

university. 

Mr. TAKANO. But we think there are a lot of veterans who are 

not using their benefits, right? That a lot of veterans are not using 

their benefits at all; and do you think that an impediment for some 

of these veterans might be that they are not college-ready? 

Mr. WITHROW. I do, no question about that. And that is the reason why we feel concerned about what we call developmental education. 

Mr. TAKANO. So there are veterans who are obviously saving 

their benefits for a more expensive education, but there is a whole 

swath of veterans that we know are not using their benefits at all 

because they may be impeded by their lack of preparedness to engage college over work. 

I was unaware that they can use up to—how much of their veterans benefits can they use? 

Mr. WITHROW. They can use six credit hours. 

Mr. TAKANO. Six credit hours. 

But they have to be enrolled in a full-credit load in order to be 

able to get their living stipend; is that right? 

Mr. WITHROW. They have to complete 12 hours before it is, in 

fact, waived. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. 

Mr. WITHROW. So far, that hasn’t been an issue, but in talking 

to counselors and talking to faculty, they feel that the veterans who 

would get more out of the courses they take, it would have more 


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meaning and more depth to it if, in fact, they had taken some developmental courses before. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. Does your district offer any condensed or 

short-term remediation programs, like something that can be done 

in the summer, something over a semester, different levels of remediation, Mr. Withrow? 

Mr. WITHROW. You know, I don’t know that I have enough to 

really answer that. I’m sorry. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. Do you believe that—I mean I personally believe that we should do something supplemental so we don’t cause 

veterans to have to use up their precious benefits. Some veterans 

can get this remediation done in three months; maybe some in a 

semester; maybe some in a year. Pell Grant recipients, for example, 

can use up to a year of their benefits full-time for remediation. I 

think we should do no less for our veterans and we shouldn’t cause 

them to eat up their existing pool of benefits. 

I think we make these veterans—we recruit servicemembers on 

the basis of these educational benefits and they are empty and hollow if they can’t use them because of this lack of college preparedness. And we know there is a whole swath of these veterans that 

are transitioning and this is a huge barrier. 

Mr. Neiweem—is that how you say your name—can you—the 

Iraq and the Afghanistan veterans, do you believe that far more of 

them would use these benefits? Do you think this is also an impediment to their using these benefits? 

Mr. NEIWEEM. So, Mr. Takano, I think it is a great concept. In 

our recent survey research, we didn’t specifically go after that, but 

I know there are many veterans who didn’t use their benefits right 

away, and the longer the time goes on, a lot of those basic core 

competencies, such as college math, those sorts of things—you 

know, if you don’t pass the competency level for math 101, you are 

going to be taking 98 or 99, so I am sure many veterans would benefit, would fall into that category. But I can’t give you a specific 

number now, but we could launch a survey about it. 

Mr. TAKANO. Great. I would appreciate that and that would be 

wonderful if you could do that. 

Mr. Chairman, my time is up—do—I have 26 seconds left, okay. 

I want to switch topics a little bit to Mr. Harrison. You receive 

students—transfer students from both, the community college system and for-profit programs. Can you tell me if there is a difference 

in the level of preparedness with these types of transfer students? 

Do a lot of students come from for-profit institutions with credit 

that is not transferable, for example? 

Mr. HARRISON. Unfortunately, yes. Even in my previous position 

as assistant director of Veterans Upward Bound, the community 

college—I was at Cincinnati State, we did have veterans who tried 

to transfer—well, they didn’t try, they transferred in, but, you 

know, to their dismay, they found out that their credits didn’t 

transfer from the for-profit schools. 

And one thing, you know, that I am committed to do is when I, 

like I said earlier, when I do outreach is to explain to the Reserve 

or Guard member like, Look, as you use your benefits, you need to 

watch out for these schools, because they tell you that they are certified, and they are certified, but who is their accrediting 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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institution? And then once they find that out—and I am not telling 

you where to go to school, but really you need to decide for yourself, 

because they will promise you everything and you have nothing to 

show for it once it is all shown and done except for a high debt. 

Mr. TAKANO. Well, thank you. 

My time is up, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. 

Mr. Costello, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Mr. COSTELLO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you all for being here at this hearing to provide your recommendations on how to best improve higher education opportunities for our newer generation of veterans. I will also share with 

you, in having read the written testimony from each of you, that 

it is very substantive and I think very helpful as a policymaker in 

terms of not only understanding what programs are provided, but 

how we can go about making them better. 

And I want to specifically reference for those of you who do have 

the written testimony here today. My question is for Mr. Kelley, 

but I would certainly invite everyone else to weigh in. And it is on 

page 4 of your testimony, the first full paragraph where you say— 

and this relates to the transition assistance program: 

‘‘However, the VFW remains concerned that many transitioning 

service members will not have access to a classroom-proctored discussion as part of TAP. As the VFW visits military installations, 

we continue to hear that small unit commanders remain reluctant 

to allow junior transitioning service members to participate in TAP. 

Even though TAP is now a commander’s program, the VFW believes that some military commanders still fail to take TAP seriously. In our visits to transition sites, this is not as much of an 

issue for mid-career service members or retirees. However, it has 

a direct impact on the transition of first-term enlisted service members, who likely need the training the most.’’ 

My question is more oriented towards asking you, any of you, to 

share your observations on how we can make the TAP program 

more effective, given what you have identified as, at least your concerns, and maybe the challenges on how to make it more effective. 

Mr. KELLEY. Access to that information is critical, so if you have 

one access point toward the end of your military time and it didn’t 

all sink in and you don’t have the ability to go back and see that 

after service, that is a problem. In-person meetings are always 

going to be better than a big group setting where people don’t have 

the opportunity to ask questions, and it is on a time hack and people are hurrying through it. 

So I think the set-aside and making that mandatory—if somebody is going to go to college, they need to be prepared, and having 

it as a recommendation, as an option, and then a commander saying, I am sorry, Mr. Kelley, you can’t go to that, we need you in 

the field today, we need you here, we need you doing that. So we 

need to make it mandatory. We need to make it a priority to make 

sure that people are trained and ready to go. 

Mr. COSTELLO. Jumping two paragraphs below, that last sentence: ‘‘. . . the VFW continues to advocate for consistently delivering transitional training throughout the military lifecycle and enVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:03 Apr 12, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\98-573.TXT PAT

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suring that veterans still have access to training and resources 

after leaving the military.’’ 

So, specifically, what might you suggest in order to make the 

TAP program more effective? Is it making access to the program 

earlier in the servicemember’s term of service, so at least they 

know what they are going to be getting out of TAP at a later point 

in time? 

I mean, what I don’t think any of us want to see is that you have 

this static program that you enter into for a moment of time and 

then that moment of time is up and that is your program, when 

it seems to me that the more it carries with the servicemember, the 

more effective it is going to be. 

Mr. KELLEY. The more modes of education you give somebody, 

the better they are going to receive it. So TAP is one mode, but if 

you have—a lot of this information is on Army—AKO—Knowledge 

Online, so they can—the servicemembers can go on there and find 

out what they need to do to prepare; that is one method. 

I know the Marine Corps has correspondence courses. To get promoted in the Marine Corps, you had to take finance for Marines. 

It wasn’t a real complicated course, but you had to check that box 

in order to get promoted. 

Having that for education benefits, to know how to use your tuition assistance and how you can parlay that into your GI Bill 

would be very important-be able to have bridge courses before you 

even leave active duty. 

Mr. Takano asked the question, are people ill-prepared or do 

they have reservations about accessing college? And they do. If you 

have been out of service or out of school for six years—and it 

wasn’t a big priority to you because you knew that you were going 

to go into the service,—community you didn’t retain a lot of that. 

And now that you are coming to the end of your military service, 

you start thinking, I don’t remember algebra at all and I haven’t 

written anything other than maybe a small report, so that is probably not going to cut the mustard. 

So we need to give them opportunities along the way to keep relevant in those skills, because they are perishable. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Ms. Rice, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Ms. RICE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

So I recently met with a group of veteran service organizations 

back in my district, back on Long Island and they raised a number 

of issues and I just want to see if these are things that you have 

experienced either at your school or in servicing the veterans who 

come to ask you for help. 

The entitlement period that you can access these benefits, is 

that—it is my understanding that that is a 36-month entitlement 

period that they have to use the benefits during that time. Is there 

any way to extend that—I guess I will ask this to you, Mr. Harrison—in terms of—or whoever else thinks they might be able to 

do that—to take into consideration all the other, whether they are 

working part-time or full-time supporting their families, the levels 

of stress? 

Mr. HARRISON. I know our VetSuccess counselor did a tutorial on 

that for some of our administrators and she explained the matrix, 

like, you know, it says 36 months and if you drop it down part-time 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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or halftime, whatever, it is togoing to extend—it is not like 36 

straight months, you know. 

Ms. RICE. You can take breaks? 

Mr. HARRISON. Yes, if you can justify them. 

Ms. RICE. Okay. And if this person was not given that benefit, 

that is something that we might be able to do something about? 

Mr. HARRISON. Well, they have to be given the benefit. 

Ms. RICE. Or wasn’t given that extension, I should say. 

Mr. BARKER. Ms. Rice, if I may? 

The benefit—the charge for the entitlement of the benefit is 

not—the 36-month charge is only charged a full month if the student is enrolled at full-time for the full month. 

Ms. RICE. You have to be full-time. 

Mr. BARKER. To answer your question, for a student who is attending a college or a university using the first 9–1–1 GI Bill at 

less than the full-time rate, then there is a natural expansion of 

the benefit in there, in that the entire month, the 36 months is not 

being eaten up. Does that make sense? 

Ms. RICE. Yes. I just wanted to—because I will address this issue 

with this particular person who brought it up with me, but thank 

you. 

Now, Mr. Harrison, how—obviously, we know that a lot of student veterans, in addition to going to school, they have families, a 

lot of them are dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder, or other 

mental health or other stress problems that could affect their ability in their day-to-day classes. What, I guess, what do institutions 

like yours do to ensure that professors are prepared for those 

unique challenges that student veterans face? I know that you said 

that you have counselors there that they can be referred to, but is 

there any particular training that the actual professors go through 

to be able to maybe identify at some—a student who might be presenting at-risk symptoms? 

Mr. HARRISON. We just do it on an individual basis. So if we get 

word that an individual is having an issue in school, I will personally reach out to that instructor and try to find out what is going 

on, if it is the instructor or if it is the student or if it is a little 

bit of both. And we let the instructors know; we do have tutorials 

throughout the school year, you know, it is like, okay, if this is 

going on, let us know. You have our office. You have the Office of 

Disability Services. You have the Center for Psychological Services. 

We give them all the phone numbers they may need in case something were to happen. 

Plus, we also have—we just instituted this at our school—it is 

like a safe zone, safe for veterans. So, there is like a placard they 

can stick on their window, so if a veteran is having a hard time, 

they can look and see, okay, I can go here and they know what is 

going on and they know who to call. 

Ms. RICE. Okay. To the—I know I have very limited time—I just 

wanted to throw this out. I am going to ask this of Mr. Withrow. 

I have a community college in my district, Nassau Community College, that also serves a large number of veterans and wants to hire, 

you know, a VetSuccess on Campus counselor to better understand 

their needs, but I understand the ability to do that is driven by the 


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size of the school; is that true? And if so, what is your reaction to 

that? 

Mr. WITHROW. There are no constraints on the size. I don’t—— 

Ms. RICE. Any size school can access a counselor? 

Mr. WITHROW. Any veteran can access a counselor. 

California has a well-known shortfall in counselors throughout, 

including the community colleges, but we have made a point of 

having dedicated counselors that, in fact, are—receive certificates 

that they are qualified to counsel veterans. And whether the veterans are taking advantage of the GI Bill or not, they still have access to these counselors. 

Ms. RICE. Do you have a—yes. 

Mr. BARKER. Very quickly, Ms. Rice. 

I believe that you are alluding to a program that is a VA-specific 

program, VetSuccess on Campus. It does have some parameters for 

the amount of veterans that are on campus, but that is a very specific VA program, and then the proximity to other veterans services. So it is a VO region. It’s the number of veterans on campus, 

yes, indeed. 

Ms. RICE. With the Chairman’s indulgence, just one—I had another individual who brought an issue to—and just to anyone who 

can answer this—this veteran expressed that it was difficult for 

him to access full benefits. If you have a mental health issue that 

results in a less-than-honorable discharge, that has got to be fixed. 

Do you all agree? 

Mr. BARKER. Absolutely. 

Ms. RICE. Good. There you go. I just think that we would all 

agree that that is crazy. 

And one other thing, I think that like anything else, it is getting 

the word out there to people, to veterans, that there are these benefits out there for them to access and that is always—when you 

talk about how we can better serve the veteran population, outreach, I think, is the number one thing that we can improve on. 

Thank you very much for the Chairman’s indulgence. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Ms. Radewagen, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Ms. RADEWAGEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I, too, want to thank all of you for being with us here today. My 

question is for all of you: Can you please discuss the most common 

barriers to success that student veterans encounter and what can 

be done to help students overcome these student barriers, especially those student veterans living in remote areas such as American Samoa, attending a local community college. 

We don’t have a local VA benefits counselor that can help them 

navigate these barriers. A benefit counselor comes from Hawaii 

maybe once a month or every couple months, depending on their 

availability, to help our veterans answer benefits questions. That 

is not adequate support for our veterans who are geographically 

and economically isolated and who live 2500 miles due south of Hawaii. 

Mr. KELLEY. I think the number one access issue is finances. 

Without in-state tuition, veterans are paying out of pocket. Students who are in American Samoa going to community college and 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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want to transfer to the University of Hawaii are going to pay outof-state tuition; we need to fix that. 

Mr. BARKER. I would agree with the gentleman from the VA that 

finances can become the biggest challenge, but I would offer that 

the residency issue is just one issue. And out-of-state tuition and 

fees, there is a vehicle in place currently for institutions to be able 

to participate in the Yellow Ribbon program, which is a partnership between the Department of Veterans Affairs and an individual 

institution. So there is a vehicle there that exists. 

I harken back to academic preparedness, frankly, and I think 

that the folks that make up my membership in 400 institutions 

would probably agree that academic preparedness and veterans arriving on campus being able to face the rigors of higher ed becomes 

their biggest challenge. And not because they don’t have the capacity, but, frankly, they don’t have—in a lot of cases they don’t have 

the—I don’t want to say motivation, because they are highly motivated, but they just have not seen what it takes to be successful 

in higher ed previously, so they don’t have a model to follow frankly. 

Ms. RADEWAGEN. Thank you. 

Mr. WITHROW. I would like to followup on that, if I could. We 

found that counselors are the key to removing barriers to success. 

And having access to counselors who not only can give guidance, 

but become advocates, that is something that we have stressed. 

I would also like to point out that not all veterans fit within a 

box. I mean we have veterans that, given the kind of services that 

they were involved in, are extremely well-prepared. Quite frankly, 

we only give them six hours of credit, but graduates of the Language Institute Monterey receive a fantastic education; it is one of 

the finest in the country, if not in the world. 

Again, it depends on what the veteran has worked in. A lot of 

the applications are, in fact, convertible into civilian life, they are 

convertible into success and education, a lot are not. And it is the 

ones that are not we have found that the counseling is the most 

advantageous. 

Mr. NEIWEEM. And if I could just say that I think more basically 

just a human connection. I mean someone with a human connection or a significant other is more, with a significant other, is more 

likely to succeed, and if they do not, having a veteran that they 

have a connection with is going to enhance the campus experience. 

And I did want to touch on the fact that the IAVA and VFW both 

have been supporting the Discharge Review Board of you, Board, 

to look at veterans that have been discharged other than honorable, that there be a remedial mechanism to see if that, you know, 

that discharge may have been related to post-traumatic stress in 

combat. So that is something we have supported. 

And just one clarification, I think we clarified it, but the 36- 

month benefit is the duration of the benefit, it is not an eligibility 

window, so you can use it after the 36 months. 

Ms. RADEWAGEN. And I hear from Mr. Harrison. 

Mr. HARRISON. Yes. I guess at a large urban school some of the 

problem that other institutions may face, we do or we don’t face, 

one of the things I have seen outside of funding, you know, sometimes they run out of benefits or even if they are discharged or care 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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after service may not be what they need, sometimes it is just that 

lack of fear. You know, because no–-you know I relate my own experiences when I got back from Iraq. You know, you are going at 

such a high tempo that when it is all said and done you are back 

to a civilian life. Then it is just like–-you are like a fish out of 

water. 

And sometimes what that younger veteran within the experience—they don’t have the life experience of your average 25-yearold who just graduated high school and went straight to college. 

They have done a lot more, I mean you are 19 years old, you know, 

you are signing a will to give all your worldly belongings to somebody else, your range of experience is broader than that. 

But then I try to motivate them too. Say, look, if you can handle 

Iraq, you can handle the classroom. Don’t worry about failing, you 

are not going to fail, we got people here who want you to succeed, 

they don’t want to fail you, and we got people here to prop you up. 

So really it is just trying to encourage them and motivate them 

like, hey, you can do this. 

Ms. RADEWAGEN. That is very helpful. Thank you very much, my 

time is up. Mr. Chairman, thank you. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Ms. Titus, you are recognized for five minutes. 

Ms. TITUS. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. I am a longtime professor at UNLV, and often have veterans in my classes, 

and appreciate what they bring to that setting, and to the university. 

I know at last Congress we addressed the question of out-of-state 

tuition. Some of the states already allowed veterans to pay in-state 

tuition and then that made it nationally, but if we didn’t include 

those from Samoa, we should certainly go back and take a look at 

that. 

Also I was just going to say that I completely agree with the 

Ranking Member’s concern about taking remedial courses and 

being brought up to speed so that you can succeed once you start 

taking the regular course work or whatever major you choose. 

One of things that has been pointed out to me is the problem 

with the housing benefit. If you go to college and start your housing benefit when you are taking the remedial course, it will run out 

before you finish taking the whole degree program, so we ought to 

look at that benefit as it connects with the GI Bill and I look forward to working with you on that. We have had several conversations about that. 

Another thing is the Student Veterans Association at UNLV is 

a great resource, I work with them often. And one of the things 

that they brought to my attention is the problem with the need for 

childcare, especially women veterans going back to school and do 

not have any access to childcare. Many universities do not provide 

it on the campus, and the GI Bill does not give you any benefit. 

So I am trying to look for ways that we can perhaps do some 

benefit for childcare while you are in school. And I wondered if you 

all would work with me on that, if you have any suggestions, if you 

think that this is a worthwhile way to go, if you have heard about 

yourselves on your campuses. We can start with Mr. Neiweem and 

whoever might want to weigh in, I would appreciate it. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Mr. WITHROW. If I could just to start with. Two of our four colleges have childcare centers. And it becomes very meaningful if we 

have a veteran who is married and has children, and the wife is 

the provider, the financial provider. The childcare becomes a very 

important element in terms of that veteran succeeding and being 

able to focus on education as opposed to a lot of the hierarchy of 

needs, if you will. 

Mr. BARKER. Ma’am, my campus is a four-year state institution 

in the State of Colorado and we are very fortunate that we have 

an early childhood education program as one of course offerings. 

And in that program we have a couple of childcare centers on our 

campus, and specifically our student veterans, just about a year 

ago, were granted access and awards to that childcare, and it was 

a significant impact on the retention rates and course completion 

rates for our student veterans after we implemented access to that 

childcare on our campus. So I think that you are absolutely right. 

The childcare, regardless of the gender of the parent, childcare 

is a significant issue that could really oftentimes is a show stopper 

for our student veterans on our campuses. 

Mr. NEIWEEM. I would just say I think that is something—a 

great thing for Congress to consider. I mean our members’ needs 

are usually based on the geography and what is available. I mean 

some universities have got great veteran services, others are more 

limited to their budgets. So it is probably a budgetary consideration, but certainly many of our members would benefit from that 

type of option to focus on their studies while they are trying to balance the needs of having a family because we know they are usually older students. 

Mr. KELLEY. For the sake of time, the VFW supports you, will 

work with you to find solutions. 

Ms. TITUS. Right. We have to figure out kind of how to structure 

it, but I think it is something that can be done that we need to 

work on. Yes? 

Mr. NEIWEEM. And I know in our location we do have an outside 

agency that we partner with, The Volunteers of America, and they 

do have a grant for female veterans for not only childcare, but if 

they need assistance getting to and from job interview. They do 

provide rides, they do provide bus passes, and they do provide gas 

cards if that veteran, female veteran, does not have the funds to 

do so. 

One of our challenges is just to get it out to the population because they are sitting on money and they need people to participate 

in it. And we are trying to do everything on our part to get that 

out to our female veteran, population. 

Ms. TITUS. Well, thank you. I just know that the veterans would 

be better able to take advantage of the educational opportunities 

and the employment opportunities if they had that assistance with 

childcare, so that is what we want to work. I appreciate it. Thank 

you, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. I want to thank you all for being here 

today, not only for the information that you brought, but the information that you shared with us in responding to our questions. 

Your dedication to our veterans, of course, is greatly appreciated. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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We will excuse this panel at this time. We have been called to 

vote, so for the second panel, General Worley, we will come back 

in probably about 35 minutes or so, and resume. Again I want to 

thank you all for being here today with us. 

I now invite our second and final panel to the witness table. 

Joining us Major General Robert Worley, director of VA’s education 

service. I want to thank you for being with us today, I really do. 

And for many years of service in uniform in the Air Force. And I 

look forward to hearing from you. You are now recognized for five 

minutes. 

STATEMENT OF ROBERT M. WORLEY II 

Mr. WORLEY. Good afternoon, Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking 

Member Takano, and other distinguished Members of the subcommittee. 

I am pleased to be here today to discuss the Department of Veterans Affairs education benefit programs and our ongoing efforts to 

ensure education benefits are administered appropriately and accurately. 

My testimony will highlight the status of our implementation of 

the President’s Executive Order, 13607, Public Law 112–249, and 

Sections 701 and 702 of the Choice Act. I will also touch on VA’s 

information technology systems supporting our education programs. 

VA’s education programs provide education and training benefits 

to eligible Service members, Veterans, dependents, and survivors. 

These programs are designed to assist Veterans in readjusting to 

civilian life, to help the armed forces both recruit and retain members, and enhance the nation’s economic competitiveness. 

The Post-9/11 GI Bill, or Chapter 33, greatly expanded education 

benefits with the enactment of Public Law 110–252, effective August 1st, 2009. This program provides Veterans, Service members, 

dependents, and survivors with educational assistance in the form 

of tuition and fees, a housing allowance, and a books and supplies 

stipend to assist them in reaching their educational and vocational 

goals. The Post-9/11 GI Bill is by far the most utilized of VA’s education programs. 

Since the program began, VA has issued approximately $50 billion in benefits to 1.4 million individuals and their educational institutions. The other education benefit programs VA administers 

have been fairly consistent or have experienced reductions in recent years as measured by numbers of trainees and dollars issued. 

The Executive Order on Principles of Excellence and Public Law 

112–249 on improving transparency of educational opportunities 

were both intended to strengthen oversight, enforcement, and accountability within the Veteran and military educational benefit 

programs, as well as improve outreach and transparency to Veterans and Service members by providing information on educational institutions. 

These important efforts were implemented through a strong and 

effective inter-agency collaboration between VA, the Department of 

Defense, and the Department of Education, in consultation with 

the Department of Justice, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and the National Association of State Approving Agencies. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Over 6,100 campuses have voluntarily agreed to comply with the 

Principles of Excellence. 

Much has been accomplished through this work to both better inform and better protect Veterans and family members using educational benefits including: Registering as a Trademark the term 

‘‘GI Bill;’’ development of a financial aid shopping sheet; development of Veteran outcome measures, and implementation of a centralized complaint system. 

Further, as a result of these efforts, VA launched an online vocational and academic assessment tool called Career Scope, as well 

as the GI Bill Comparison Tool, which enables prospective students 

to compare educational institutions using key measures of affordability and value through access to school performance information 

and consumer protection information. As of March 4th, 2015, there 

have been over 846,000 unique visitors and over one million page 

views. 

Section 701 of the Choice Act expands the Fry Scholarship to include surviving spouses of service members who died in the line of 

duty on or after September 11th, of 2001. VA began accepting applications for this extended benefit on November 3rd, of 2014, and 

as of March 2nd, VA has received 805 applications. 

Section 702 of the Choice Act requires VA to disapprove educational programs under the Post-9/11 GI Bill and the Montgomery 

GI Bill Active Duty at public institutions if they charge covered individuals tuition or fees in excess of resident rates for terms beginning after July 1, 2015. In late October 2014, VA sent a letter to 

all the Governors outlining these requirements and requesting information on the state’s ability to meet requirements in advance of 

July 1st. 

All states and territories have indicated a commitment to comply 

with the law and are in various stages of either legislative or policy 

development and approval. VA has provided extensive technical assistance to numerous states and is working in close partnership 

with the state approving agencies to facilitate timely compliance 

with this law. 

The Long-Term Solution is the Post-9/11 GI Bill Claims Processing Solution. In September 2012, VA implemented end-to-end 

automation of supplemental Post-9/11 GI Bill Claims. This was a 

game changer. In Fiscal Year 2014, 51 percent of all Post-9/11 GI 

Bill supplemental claims were fully automated and another 30 percent were partially automated. As a result, original claims processing timeliness has improved from 30.5 days in Fiscal Year 2012 

to 17 days in Fiscal Year 2014. And supplemental processing timeliness has improved from 16.5 days to six days in 2014. 

Veterans’ hard earned educational benefits are the vehicle by 

which many of our nation’s heroes pursue their career goals and 

successfully transition to civilian life. VA is fully committed to ensuring timely access and delivery of these benefits and to ensuring 

Veterans are well-informed decision makers concerning the use of 

these benefits. 

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement, and I look forward 

to your questions. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF ROBERT WORLEY APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX] 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, thank you very much, General. At this 

time, I yield myself five minutes for questions. We talked—you 

spoke today about compliance with in-state tuition and that provision of the Choice Act. And as I understand, there are four states, 

I believe, that are in compliance at this time? 

Mr. WORLEY. That is correct, sir. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Okay. And you have received some notices from 

the majority of other states that they intend to comply by July 1st. 

Any idea what that number is, how many say they think they will 

have it done by then? 

Mr. WORLEY. Mr. Chairman, at one level or another, we have received indication of intent to comply from all states and territories. 

It is just we have only heard formally from about 33 states and the 

District of Columbia. Formally, meaning, we got a letter back from 

the Governor’s office or the appropriate authority in that state. 

Others, we have actually talked with or in some cases provided 

technical assistance with their legislative proposals or their policy 

language, and they are moving through their processes. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Now, I am just wondering, as are other people, 

about the notion that there may be a waiver out there. Are they 

dragging their feet or are they trying to go full steam ahead to get 

this done by what is in law, or are they just kind of banking on 

a waiver? I do not expect—I am not asking you—— 

Mr. WORLEY. No—— 

Dr. WENSTRUP [continuing]. To try to read their mind a little bit. 

I understand that. What is your gut feeling on some of that? 

Mr. WORLEY. Mr. Chairman, what I would say is that our full 

effort and focus when the law was passed was first to make sure 

we understood it completely in discussions with our General Counsel and then more aggressively to get it out to the states and make 

sure they understand it. There are nuances to this law that need 

to be understood for a state to actually become compliant. 

As you well know, many states have some level of a provision for 

either in-state tuition or other types of benefits for Veterans, but 

many of those states do not comply with every aspect of Section 

702, for example, the three years from discharge requirement and 

other provisions. So we are working very closely and focused our 

effort on helping states become compliant. 

With respect, you are right, the Secretary does have a waiver authority. We have not had that discussion with the Secretary yet, so 

he has made no decision on whether to offer a waiver, but those 

discussions should be happening very soon. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, that was going to be my next question, 

where are we, really, with that in the potential—— 

Mr. WORLEY. Yes, sir. 

Dr. WENSTRUP [continuing]. For a waiver? In the four states that 

were able to get it done, why were they able to get it done? I mean, 

is there something about that state and the system that they had 

in place already that made it simple for them, or did they just get 

on it? 

Mr. WORLEY. Well, the first state that was compliant was Texas. 

In fact, they had legislation that had already been put in place; At 

first, we did not think they were compliant, and it was a matter 

of having discussions with them on how they define certain terms 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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that are in the law. So we really get down to some of the technicalities with respect to definitions of uniformed services or armed 

forces or dependent or spouse or those types of things. So I think 

these states just got after it and got it done. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Are you saying then, that Texas already had legislation in their state that allowed for in-state tuition for any veteran? Did they do that on their own, in the state? 

Mr. WORLEY. Yes. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Okay. 

Mr. WORLEY. Yes. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Okay. I can see where—— 

Mr. WORLEY. That is my understanding. 

Dr. WENSTRUP [contuning]. That would make a difference for 

them. Now, what plans does the VA have in place to finish the 

Long-Term Solution and finally get all original claims fully automated? How is that going at this point, do you think? 

Mr. WORLEY. As I mentioned, the long-term solution is a great 

success story. When the Post-9/11 GI Bill was enacted, it was virtually from pretty much a dead start as far as the lack of technology to implement the system. So it was very rudimentary at 

first. 

We have had six major software releases over the last three 

years, culminating in, as I mentioned, September of ’12 is when we 

put into place the final software release for the Long-Term Solution, which allows about 50 percent, a little over 50 percent, of the 

Post-9/11 GI Bill enrollment claims, which is 80 to 85 percent of 

our work to be processed untouched by human hands through a 

rules-based technology. 

So it has been, as I mentioned, a game changer. It has been a 

huge success. And so we have—all the benefit types have had dramatic decreases in terms of their average processing days because 

of this Long-Term Solution. 

The plan, since March of 2013, the development activity has been 

in a sustainment mode. There has been no additional funding to do 

any further automation, but we know that is in a proposed piece 

of legislation from you and we will be talking more about that next 

week. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Takano, you now have five 

minutes. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Worley, could you 

provide us with an update on the VA’s implementation of the Principles of Excellence included in the President’s executive order? I 

am particularly interested in what exactly the VA is doing that requires schools to ‘‘end fraudulent and unduly aggressive recruiting 

techniques,’’ and when you will begin risk-based program reviews, 

and how you plan to deal with the backlog of student Veteran complaints that I have heard is becoming an issue? 

Mr. WORLEY. Thank you. That is a lot, Ranking Member Takano. 

First of all, with respect to ending fraudulent recruiting practices, 

there are number of aspects to that. One of the aspects to that is 

our efforts to register as a trademark the term ‘‘Post-9/11 GI Bill’’ 

or ‘‘GI Bill,’’ that happened in 2013. 

And what that has done is helped give us a tool and an enforcement against those who would put out on websites, and represent 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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as official websites, information about the GI Bill. The authorized 

users of the term are VSOs and, of course, GI Bill schools and the 

state approving agencies. But we have been working to enforce 

that, and we have actually had to issue some cease and desist 

types of letters to Web site owners. 

For schools in particular, this is something that is reviewed at 

compliance, when we go around and do compliance surveys. In the 

last three years—and we are on the same track this year, we do 

about 5,000 compliance surveys at educational institutions, the GI 

Bill-approved institutions. Marketing, recruiting practices, and advertising and those type of things are reviewed during those compliance surveys. And they might come up either through that review of their records, as well as in our discussions and interviews 

with veterans. 

I am sorry, the third part of your question on the complaint? 

Mr. TAKANO. Yeah, when—— 

Mr. WORLEY. The risk-based program reviews? 

Mr. TAKANO. It says when will you begin risk—— 

Mr. WORLEY. Yes. 

Mr. TAKANO [contuning]. Based program reviews? 

Mr. WORLEY. We have begun those. We began those very shortly, 

within months, after the complaint system was implemented in 

January of last year. Depending on when the complaints come in, 

the VA reviews those and triages them. The more serious ones, we 

will then direct a risk-based program review at that school. And we 

have done 46 of those. Six of those schools that we have done riskbased program reviews at have been withdrawn from GI Bill approval. 

Mr. TAKANO. How does the VA verify whether institutions have 

agreed to abide by the Principles of Excellence in the executive 

order, how do you verify that they are actually in compliance? 

Mr. WORLEY. First of all, they just sign up with us. Originally, 

when the executive order was first signed, we asked them that basically they let us know their intent to comply. What we have done 

again in our compliance survey enforcement, we have added an addendum to that checklist, if you will, that procedure that looks at 

all the aspects of the Principles of Excellence, so when we go to 

visit the school, we check on their compliance with the POE. 

Mr. TAKANO. What happens if they do not adhere to the Principles of Excellence, do they lose their GI Bill eligibility? 

Mr. WORLEY. Because the Principles of Excellence, which have 

been implemented only in the last couple of years, we have taken 

the approach during our compliance surveys of really trying to help 

people understand the implementation and to assist them in becoming fully compliant and understanding what the requirements 

are. 

Ultimately, down the road, if they are not compliant with the 

principles and continue to be that way, we would certainly remove 

them from the GI Bill Comparison Tool as far as a signatory to the 

Principles of Excellence. Depending on the nature of why they are 

not compliant, if it is a serious offense, then we would be looking 

at either suspending or withdrawing that school. But if it is a more 

administrative kind of discrepancy, then it would be more an administrative result. 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLER
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Mr. TAKANO. Great. Can you please explain how the GI Bill benefits are affected by remedial courses and what happens if a student fails a remedial class? 

Mr. WORLEY. Remedial classes, what we call remedial refresher 

or deficiency classes, are covered by the Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits 

and the other legacy benefit types. As you know, the charge, there 

is an entitlement charge associated with that. And if someone is 

not successful at those course, they are able to retake them. 

Mr. TAKANO. All right. Thank you. My time is up, sir. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Want to do another round? 

Mr. WORLEY. Sure. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. General, with the GI Bill Comparison Tool, do 

you think it is making it easier for Veterans to choose a school? Is 

it being effective? What kind of feedback are you getting on that? 

Mr. WORLEY. Mr. Chairman, we are getting good feedback and 

most of the feedback is, we want more of it. So as I mentioned, the 

number of page views and that kind of thing, we would certainly 

like it to be even more widely used. 

We think it will get even more use as time goes on and as we 

add more functionality to it. But it is a great tool. It brings together multiple different sources, multiple pages that a Veteran 

would have to go to otherwise, or a prospective GI Bill user, and 

provide some really good information. We are looking to enhance 

that functionality this year as well. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Is it helping them from the standpoint that, you 

know, they may be looking at originally 20 schools, but now they 

go here and now they are down to three, so they do not go visit 

20 schools? I mean, I am just trying to think how they are using 

it effectively, because, you know, I do not think most people when 

they are making that step for a college that they just choose online, 

per se. 

Mr. WORLEY. Right. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. That there is a visit involved, and so what are 

they gaining the most, do you think? 

Mr. WORLEY. Well, the beauty and intent really of this Comparison Tool is really twofold. One, it streamlines that process that you 

are talking about as far as looking, where do I go to look at things. 

But it appeals to the Veteran, because that is what it is for. 

It has Veteran information about schools, Veteran specific information, about schools that, we think a Veteran would consider to 

be important, such as is there a Veteran Success on Campus counselor there? Is there a Veteran Service Organization of some type? 

Are they signatories to the 8 keys to Veterans’ success, the Principles of Excellence, and those types of things? And they are able 

to compare three schools at a time side by side to look at that information. 

We have also recently put on the complaint information, so a 

Veteran can see if the school has had a number of complaints 

against it. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. So on there, I just have witnessed it briefly, does 

it list whether a school is in compliance with the in-state tuition 

requirement? 

Mr. WORLEY. That is not on there presently, but that is certainly 

something that we envision putting on something like a school proVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:03 Apr 12, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\98-573.TXT PAT

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file page that would also include outcome measures and other 

school links and other information. But while we are in the process 

of implementing and helping to facilitate compliance with Section 

702, we will be soon putting that on the GI Bill website, a kind of 

a tracking of what states are complying and what aren’t. But we 

will ultimately put that on the GI Bill Comparison Tool, yes, sir. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. And it might be motivating to the schools if it is 

on there or not. 

Mr. WORLEY. Agreed. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Also, I am just curious if the VA does not grant 

a state or school, what steps are taken to inform students that 

their school did not comply? What steps do you think you are going 

to need to take? 

Mr. WORLEY. Well, of course, sir, our first priority is to get states’ 

compliant, to help them do that—and of course with the most important goal being no disruption to any of the beneficiaries in their 

use of the Post-9/11 GI Bill. 

But the law requires if a state is not compliant and there is no 

waiver in place, we will have to disapprove those programs, not 

just for the covered individuals identified in the law, but for all 

Chapter 30, all Montgomery GI Bill, and Post-9/11 GI Bill users in 

those programs. So the stakes are high. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Yes, it sounds like if there is no waivers, the 

schools in Texas and the three other states can start building some 

new dorms, because they will be the ones that are getting all the 

students. But I appreciate that and thank you for answering my 

questions, and I yield to Mr. Takano. 

Mr. TAKANO. Can you just tell me, is the VA working on trying 

to lessen the impact of remedial classes on student veterans in 

terms of—I mean, I know there is a charge against the entitlement, 

and is there a limit, a cap, on that charge against the entitlement? 

Mr. WORLEY. I do not know of any limit mentioned by the previous Panel Member regarding how many hours someone can take 

in remedial classes, but the entitlement charge is something that 

is in statute and require legislative action to change that. 

You may be aware of the Dependents’ Educational Assistance 

program, DEA, offers five months of remedial, an opportunity for 

remedial classes, without a charge toward the benefit, but we 

would be happy to work with the Committee if you want to go 

down that road. 

Mr. TAKANO. I want to know about this and, unfortunately, I 

have to get going. But I am going to yield back the rest of my time, 

but I appreciate the Chairman going through allowing a second 

round of questions. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, if there are no further questions, I want to 

thank everyone here today for taking time to come and share your 

views on improving education opportunities for our veterans. I now 

ask unanimous consent that the statements from The American Legion, Veterans Education Success, School Advocates for Veterans 

Education and Success, and the RAND Corporation be submitted 

for the record. Hearing no objections, so ordered. 

Finally, I ask unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:03 Apr 12, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00033 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 Y:\98-573.TXT PAT

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neous material. Without objections, so ordered. The hearing is now 

adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 4:35 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 


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APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER MARK TAKANO

We live in a moment in history where one half of one percent of our nation is 

serving in the military. Compare that to the 12 percent that served during World 

War II. There is a growing gap between the shared experiences of those who’ve 

served versus those who haven’t. Many veterans enter colleges and face a range of 

issues not faced by their classmates. They may be older than their fellow classmates, outside of the classroom environment for a longer time, and in many instances, the first member of their family to set foot into a college environment. 

We can all agree education benefits are earned for veterans’ selfless service to our 

country. But what does that mean? Does it mean that veterans have the right to 

receive this benefit and expend it anyway they see fit? Or did Congress intend for 

this benefit to assist veterans in a successful transition into the civilian workforce? 

As most people in this room are aware, our veterans perform in a wide range of 

occupations while in the military. In the Army for instance, for every fighting soldier there are 2.5 soldiers providing support in the rear. These supportive roles can 

be in logistics, administration, or preparing and serving food. This means that the 

country and the VA must serve veterans with a wide range of experience. Some experience transfers well into educational environments while others do not. 

To all of them I say, we have your back. As a former educator I am a believer 

in the power of education. Those who choose to pursue an education should feel good 

about their choice and where it will lead them. 

I want to take a moment to commend my colleagues who introduced and supported the Transparency Act. This bipartisan legislation from the 112th Congress 

paved the way for much needed insight into the quality of different schools and will 

continue to provide more insight over the coming years. For instance, the legislation 

required VA’s GI Bill comparison tool which servicemembers are already using to 

understand which schools best fit their needs, cost too much, and clarify institutions 

that may be a poor choice in comparison to others. 

I also want to highlight a piece of legislation I recently joined Congresswoman 

Lois Frankel and Congressman Gus Bilirakis in introducing the Veteran Education 

Empowerment Act. This bill would re-authorize and improve a grant program 

through the Department of Education that provides colleges and universities across 

the country with the funds necessary to establish new Veteran Student Centers and 

to improve and operate existing ones. 

However, we still have work to do. Our Nation’s heroes are being sold the idea 

that all they need to do is get a degree from anywhere and jobs will be presented 

to them on a silver platter. Too many times I have heard the story of the soldier 

who uses his or her education benefits at questionable and expensive schools, only 

to find that employers aren’t impressed. We as a country, and more importantly, 

the states, have a role to play in insisting that institutions provide positive outcomes for veterans. We also have a fiscal duty, to ensure that government dollars 

are not being misspent, at higher educational rates, with substandard outcomes. 

To those who are struggling to complete their educations, we have another obligation. In 2014, over 83 thousand students using the GI Bill had to take remedial 

courses while exhausting their education benefits. Some also take on debt before 

they receive a diploma; a situation the Post 9/11 GI Bill was intended to avoid. We 

need to help servicemembers and veterans understand and address their education 

gaps prior to exhausting their education benefits; ideally, while they are serving in 

the military. 

And I thank the witnesses with us today for being here to give us their insight 

into these important issues and I look forward to their testimony. 

I yield back. 

f 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF TERENCE HARRISON

Good afternoon. I’d like to thank Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, 

and Members of the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity for inviting me to participate in today’s hearing on the Department of Veterans Affairs’ (VA) administration and its education programs, as well as the educational and training needs of 

our newest generation of veterans. 

My name is Terence Harrison and I am the Manager for Veterans Programs and 

Services at the University of Cincinnati. The University of Cincinnati, or ‘‘UC,’’ is 

a public research university, enrolling more than 43,600 undergraduate and gradVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:03 Apr 12, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00035 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 Y:\98-573.TXT PAT

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uate students in 2014. Our campus is made up of students from all 50 states and 

from 100 countries around the world. Recognized as a Military Friendly School, UC 

is both a leader and champion in military and veteran related issues. Currently, UC 

enrolls about 2,250 military-affiliated students, including active duty military, members of the National Guard and the Reserves, veterans, and family members. Of this 

total, 1,007 students are using GI Bill benefits, as of the fall 2014 semester. With 

the anticipated draw-down of active duty personnel, the University of Cincinnati is 

energetically positioning itself to accommodate these students. UC adheres closely 

to the VA’s principles of excellence in providing a high-quality educational experience tailored to the unique needs of veteran students. 

UC has instituted a number of resources and programs to best assist our youngest 

generation of veterans. To assist veteran students with administrative needs on 

campus, UC has a centralized veterans’ ‘‘one-stop shop’’ located in the same building 

as Admissions and Registration. With most of our student services for veterans in 

the same building, these students do not need to navigate a large campus to find 

the right offices to meet their needs. 

To foster a sense of community and ensure a smooth transition to civilian life, UC 

is home to the Ohio Beta chapter of Omega Delta Sigma. This co-ed, veteran-only 

fraternity has assisted countless veterans in their transition to the University of 

Cincinnati by providing social support and peer to peer mentoring. 

Additionally, to assist prospective students and current recipients of the Post 9/ 

11 GI Bill, we are pleased the VA has developed the GI Bill Comparison Tool and 

the VA feedback system. Allowing students to compare their benefits across institutions is a valuable tool. To ensure that our veteran students continue to understand 

and best utilize their GI Bill benefits upon enrolling, the University of Cincinnati 

boasts a VetSuccess on Campus Counselor. This resource allows veterans to have 

any GI Bill related questions answered in a timely manner. UC is one of only three 

Ohio schools with such a counselor. 

To meet the medical needs of veteran students, UC’s proximity to the VA hospital 

allows for students to quickly receive any required medical services. UC is a partner 

with the VA sponsored Veterans Integration to Academic Leadership program. Veterans with psychological issues can meet with a VA clinical psychologist on campus, 

or if they choose, the VA Hospital. Additionally, the University of Cincinnati’s Center of Psychological Services has a professionally trained and licensed staff that can 

address the needs of student veterans free of charge. 

In addition to these campus-based services, UC remains on the cutting-edge of 

interdisciplinary research and training that benefits the nation’s active duty military, veterans, and their families. For instance, University of Cincinnati is participating in a joint study with the VA, regarding the lingering effects of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. This ongoing study, which opened in 2010, is charged with 

seeing which types of therapy would be beneficial to those veterans who experience 

PTSD. UC also fosters strong partnerships with the military, including the Center 

for Sustainment of Trauma and Readiness Skills, or C–STARS, a joint training program between the Air Force and the University of Cincinnati Medical Center. C– 

STARS pairs both civilian and Air Force medical professionals in trauma and critical care through simulation training. 

The University of Cincinnati is also an active participant in the Tri-State VETS 

educational group. This group is comprised of veteran representatives from nine 

universities and colleges across the region and meets quarterly to discuss best practices. Additionally, they develop programs that will improve the quality of life for 

the veterans on their respective campuses. 

With regard to the implementation of section 701 of the Veterans Access, Choice 

and Accountability Act of 2014, UC does not anticipate any obstacles in offering the 

Fry Scholarship to spouses of deceased or permanently disabled veterans. At UC, 

we currently have three students receiving the Fry Scholarship. 

And as for implementing section 702, UC has offered in-State tuition to all student veterans since 2009. Because of the Ohio GI Promise, all the veteran has to 

do is show proof of residency (utility bill, lease statement, etc . . . ) and the school 

will immediately grant in-state tuition. One problem that is slowly eroding is that 

the veteran does not realize that they have to apply for residency. 

This has been a priority for us for years and I encourage all schools seeking to 

meet the requirements to look to UC as an example. 

In closing, I want to thank you for allowing me to share the great work that the 

University of Cincinnati is doing to accommodate current and future veteran students and their families. I look forward to working with you as you expand services 

for veteran students and again offer the University of Cincinnati as an example to 

inform policy and to guide schools in shaping their programs. 

I’m happy to answer any questions you may have. 


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PREPARED STATEMENT OF RAYMOND C. KELLEY

Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano and members of the Subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the 

United States (VFW) and our Auxiliaries, I want to thank you for the opportunity 

to present the VFW’s perspective on veterans’ education programs. 

Over the past few years the VFW has worked with this subcommittee to improve 

the higher education landscape for college-bound veterans through initiatives like 

the transition assistance program (TAP) mandate; establishing quality consumer resources for student veterans; and passing a reasonable in-state tuition protection for 

recently-transitioned service members and eligible dependent beneficiaries. 

Though these initiatives have the ability to improve college-readiness, improve access to a quality, low-cost education, and safeguard student veterans against fraud, 

waste, and abuse, the VFW remains concerned that far too few eligible veterans 

take advantage of their earned education benefits, and that veterans who believe 

they were treated unfairly in higher education still lack viable mechanisms for swift 

intervention and issue adjudication. 

For the balance of our testimony we will focus on ways that these recent initiatives have improved access and accountability for student veterans within higher 

education, but we will also focus on ways to further improve the system. 

CONSUMER RESOURCES

Three years ago the VFW approached this subcommittee with concerns that veterans were either unaware of how to use their earned education benefits, forgoing 

higher education, or worse, using their benefits for programs of questionable quality 

that would not help them achieve their career goals. In early 2013, Congress finally 

passed the Improving Transparency in Education for Veterans Act, offering improved consumer resources and consumer protections for student veterans by directing VA to identify an off-the-shelf comparison tool through which veterans could 

easily compare institutions of higher learning; as well as commissioning a centralized veterans’ feedback system through which veterans could report incidents of potential fraud, waste, and abuse. 

In January 2014, VA deployed their new GI Bill Comparison Tool and GI Bill 

Consumer Feedback System, and the VFW has worked with VA ever since on consistent improvements to both systems. In its infancy, the Comparison Tool consolidated resources from 17 different web pages across three federal agencies into a single online system where veterans could easily find institutional characteristics to 

help drive informed decision-making. In the ensuing year, the Comparison Tool has 

undergone several significant redesigns, adding new features like a GI Bill cost calculator, and most recently, the inclusion of student veteran feedback and veteranspecific performance data. 

The Comparison Tool is a reliable source of information for college-bound veterans, but the VFW continues to worry that not enough veterans use the system 

prior to selecting where they want to use their benefits. Since its deployment, the 

GI Bill Feedback System has collected 2,254 complaints from student veterans on 

the institutions they attend. The VFW believes that this is positive, considering that 

more than 900,000 veterans are currently enrolled in some kind of GI Bill program. 

In January, VA published its first report on the GI Bill Feedback System, where 

VA disclosed that only 312 had been adjudicated to date. This figure is what concerns the VFW. We recognize that not all complaints will be actionable, and that 

nearly half of all complaints registered to the GI Bill Feedback System are related 

to basic benefit eligibility, and not to problems with a specific school. However, the 

rate at which VA and its partners are able to triage and respond to complaints is 

a major concern. 

First, the VFW is worried that slow response times will only result in more harm 

to veterans who are waiting for their concern to be addressed. Complaints logged 

through the GI Bill Feedback System are supposed to trigger risked-based program 

reviews for schools where credible complaints start to mount. To date, VA has only 

conducted 42 program reviews based on the GI Bill Feedback System. With more 

than 1,100 complaints awaiting triage, the VFW worries that VA and its partners 

do not have the capability to respond in a timely manner. 

Sadly, time is not a luxury that student veterans have, since benefits only last 

for 36 months of enrollment. VA must have the ability to validate and respond to 

complaints in a timely manner, otherwise bad practices that may have been reported by veterans will only continue unabated. Moreover, the way in which VA adjudicates complaints has a direct impact on the GI Bill Comparison Tool, since the 

Comparison Tool now relies on VA’s validation and adjudication of complaints in 

order to publish credible feedback on an institution. 


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Fortunately, both the Comparison Tool and Feedback System remain marked improvements. The VFW believes these resources have the potential to ensure that 

veterans remain informed and empowered consumers, capable of choosing quality 

education programs that will help them to achieve their career goals. 

ISSUES RELATED TO PROCESSING

In 2013, the VFW stood up 1 Student Veteran as a resource for veterans who 

have questions or an unresolved complaint with their educational benefits. The vast 

majority of the inquiries we receive are directed toward eligibility and paying for 

college. However, the most concerning inquiries we receive deal with VA benefit 

overpayment and debt collection. 

Answering questions regarding eligibility are generally straight forward. When 

student veterans call with concerns regarding financing their education, we ensure 

they have discussed any available options at their school and direct them to specific 

scholarship and financial aid options. But when a veteran calls about an overpayment and subsequent debt collection, resolving the issue is not as easy. 

Overpayments happen most often when a student-veteran’s enrollment status 

changes. If a student opts to change from full time to part time, and his or her university fails to notify VA of the change in status, the student-veteran will continue 

to receive the full living stipend and the university will continue to be paid the fulltime rate for tuition. When this happens, VA sends a notification of overpayment 

and provides a couple options for repayment. If the veteran is unable to make a 

timely repayment, their debt is sent to collections and VA will garnish payments 

until the debt is repaid. 

The VFW believes veterans should be responsible for repaying the overpayment, 

but often times they have limited resources and immediately paying out of pocket 

can be a struggle. To eliminate this stress, the VFW proposes presenting veterans 

with three options for repayment when they are notified of the overpayment. They 

can either elect to have the overpayment immediately garnished from their next stipend payments, arrange to have the overpayment repaid over several months, or 

have their months of eligibility reduced by the number of months that must be repaid. If the veteran leaves his or her education program before the debt is repaid 

or they withdraw before they use the entirety of their benefit, they would be obligated to repay VA the difference of the overpayment. This will allow veterans some 

flexibility in repaying the debt without the fear of falling behind financially. 

TRANSITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM

In concert with the Transition Assistance Program (TAP) mandate, the Department of Defense was tasked with designing three voluntary track curricula for 

transitioning service members, to include the Accessing Higher Education track. 

Since its launch in 2013, the Accessing Higher Education track has also gone 

through several iterations, ensuring that it can adequately prepare transitioning 

service members to make informed educational choices. The VFW readily acknowledges that TAP in its current form is a significant improvement over past iterations 

of TAP, and we applaud DoD and its partners for their work on the Accessing Higher Education track. 

However, the VFW remains concerned that many transitioning service members 

will not have access to a classroom-proctored discussion as part of TAP. As the VFW 

visits military installations, we continue to hear that small unit commanders remain reluctant to allow junior transitioning service members to participate in TAP. 

Even though TAP is now a commander’s program, the VFW believes that some military commanders still fail to take TAP seriously. In our visits to transition sites, 

this is not as much of an issue for mid-career service members or retirees. However, 

it has a direct impact on the transition of first-term enlisted service members, who 

likely need the training the most. 

During the VFW’s recent legislative conference, one of our inaugural VFW–SVA 

Legislative Fellows recalled his experience transitioning in 2012. He was aware of 

the TAP mandate, and his unit commanders took it seriously. However, his immediate supervisor, a Marine Corps E–5, discouraged him and his other colleagues 

from taking time away from unit business to participate in transition activities. 

Examples like this are why the VFW supported last year’s provision to make participation in the Accessing Higher Education track mandatory for college-bound 

transitioning service members. However, the VFW acknowledges that this is not 

necessarily a problem that can be solved solely through policy initiatives, but will 

likely take a major cultural shift within the military. With that in mind, the VFW 

continues to advocate for consistently delivering transitional training throughout 

the military lifecycle, and ensuring veterans still have access to training and resources after leaving the military. 


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DoD and its partners have already taken steps to accomplish this by making 

every TAP module available on a public-facing Web site for veterans to use as a reference guide. However, this is no substitute for proctored discussions in a classroom 

setting. 

IN-STATE TUITION PROTECTION

Over the past few years, the VFW has recognized that veterans’ prior military 

service often inhibited access to the quality, cost-effective education offered by many 

public colleges and universities. Simply put, the transience of military life often precluded recently-separated service members and their dependents from satisfying 

strict residency and physical presence requirements for many public schools to offer 

in-state tuition. 

Most recently, the VFW has heard from several veterans in California through 

our 1 Student Veteran initiative who reported that while they were legal residents 

of California while serving in the military, duty assignments precluded them from 

receiving in-state tuition at the public colleges that were directly supported by their 

tax dollars. Fortunately, this summer, this will no longer be allowed. 

Through the Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act (VACAA) passed 

last summer, public colleges and universities that do not offer in-state tuition to veterans and their GI Bill-eligible dependents within three years of separation from the 

military will no longer be allowed to participate in the GI Bill. Over the past three 

years, the VFW has worked diligently on a state-by-state level to push for favorable 

in-state tuition policies for veterans. By the time VACAA was signed into law, more 

than 20 states had agreed to extend in-state tuition to their veterans. 

However, the VACAA protection is not without its implementation roadblocks. 

The original legislation offered states two years to come into compliance with the 

mandate. However, by the time the legislative process ran its course, the compliance 

window was reduced to less than a year. Moreover, the state-by-state efforts of the 

VFW and our partners had only primed states to accept veterans as in-state students, meaning that many states had not made considerations for GI Bill-eligible 

dependents. 

If states and public university systems do not come into compliance by July, these 

two roadblocks have the potential to lock out certain veterans and eligible dependents from certain public programs. Fortunately, the VFW sees positive momentum 

on behalf of states who wish to come into compliance by the deadline. The VFW only 

knows of a handful of states whose legislative processes may not allow for compliance by the start of the coming academic year. However, the VFW does support offering limited waivers to such states and educational systems, allowing them to still 

participate in the GI Bill, with the caveat that they must come into compliance no 

later than July 2016. 

In recent months, the VFW has conducted meetings with the State Approving 

Agencies, the National Governors Association, and the National Association of State 

Legislatures in an effort to gauge concerns at the state level. We are encouraged 

by what we have heard and are confident that states will take the necessary steps 

to comply. 

In an effort to further encourage compliance and dispel myths about the new instate tuition protection, the VFW has also developed a one-pager for use by our local 

advocates, who serve as the VFW’s voice in state government. As the compliance 

deadline draws closer, the VFW intends to keep its pulse on developments, and we 

encourage this subcommittee to do the same, holding VA and its partners accountable for fostering compliance. 

Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, this concludes my testimony and 

I am happy to answer any questions you may have. 

Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives 

Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, VFW has not received 

any federal grants in Fiscal Year 2014, nor has it received any federal grants in 

the two previous Fiscal Years. 

The VFW has not received payments or contracts from any foreign governments 

in the current year or preceding two calendar years. 


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PREPARED STATEMENT OF MARC A. BARKER

INTRODUCTION

Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and members of the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, the National Association of Veterans Program 

Administrators (NAVPA) is pleased to be invited to provide comments for this ‘‘review of higher education opportunities for the newest generation of veterans.’’ 

NAVPA is a nationally recognized nonprofit organization founded in 1975 by school 

certifying officials. Our organization represents close to 400 educational institutions 

nationwide. We voluntarily serve NAVPA in an effort to better serve the veterans 

on our campuses. 

NAVPA recognizes the significant higher education opportunities that are afforded this generation of veterans. We are committed, in partnership with the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, to ensure the success of the programs funded to provide educational opportunities for our veterans and their family members. 

GI BILL COMPARISON TOOL

A year ago, in March of 2014, Student Veterans of America published the Million 

Records Project. One of the clear observations that emerged from the data in this 

study was the unique non-traditional education pathways that veterans take. Student veterans are more likely to transfer or change institutions, and take longer 

than traditional college students to complete their education credentials. This makes 

defining success and measuring outcomes for veterans challenging. 

The GI Bill Comparison Tool is an important breakthrough in providing information to potential student veterans. However, it has significant limitations. The graduation rate used in the tool, is the Department of Education’s metric, based on the 

Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System (iPEDS). The iPEDS graduation 

cohort is limited to ‘‘first-time, full-time students’’ (first-time degree or certificate 

seeking students). In the denominator, the rate includes only those students who 

have no previous higher education experience, and who enroll full-time in a degree 

granting program. In the numerator, the rate only includes those from the denominator who earn a degree at the initial institution. Therefore, students who arrive 

on campus with transfer credits or start at one institution but graduate from another are unrepresented in the graduation rate. This differentially impacts the reporting of veteran students. 

Based on the American Council on Education (ACE) analysis and recommendations, service members and veteran’s military transcripts are evaluated for transfer 

credit. If credit is awarded, the student will never be represented in the graduation 

cohort rate. Because the veteran is excluded from the cohort, his/her successful completion of a higher education credential is also not captured. 

Being mindful of the SVA’s Million Records Project, the metric used in the GI Bill 

Comparison Tool does not account for the unique experience and enrollment patterns of student veterans, specifically, the arrival on campus with credits from the 

military transcript and the high transfer rate between institutions—thus making 

the iPEDS graduation data not truly reflective of the efforts of the student veterans 

or the institutions providing their education. 

One set of outcome measures that is currently proposed is to capture the course 

completion rates within institutions of higher education. Rather than the current 

graduation metric used in the comparison tool, course completion rates would be a 

better indicator of veteran students’ success. While graduation rates are an important indicator, NAVPA believes that veterans deserve a more valid comparison tool, 

which utilizes relevant data/metrics, and urges congress to ensure that the VA has 

adequate funding, resources and time to develop such a tool to accurately depict the 

successes of our institutions and students. 

FEEDBACK SYSTEM

NAVPA endorses the GI Bill Feedback system which allows educational institutions to work with the VA, state and federal agencies to mitigate veteran students’ 

complaints. We support the increased scrutiny by the VA for validated serious or 

flagrant complaints, including risk-based program reviews. 

As an organization, we ask that the notification, follow-up and resolution process 

continually be improved. For example, our membership reports that once they have 

provided feedback for a complaint lodged against their school, resolution information 

is not currently being provided by the VA. 

Not all of the complaints received by our membership have been in violation of 

the Principles of Excellence (PoE); instead these are complaints from students who 

do not understand processes within higher education. The Principles of Excellence 

were established to strengthen oversight, enforcement, and accountability for students who receive funding from federal veteran and military educational benefit proVerDate Aug 31 2005 12:03 Apr 12, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00040 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 Y:\98-573.TXT PAT

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grams, yet it would appear from our membership, that all complaints are treated 

as PoE violations. It would be helpful if the VA could identify true PoE violations 

to be reported. The VA serves primarily as the facilitator between the student and 

school for complaint resolution and should take a more active facilitator role with 

improved communication to the institution. 

It is also worth noting that there is significant concern that all complaints, whether valid or invalid against institutions, with no qualifying information, is available 

in the School Summary section of the comparison tool. It is the position of NAVPA 

that only validated complaints be listed, along with a summary of corrective actions 

taken. 

CHOICE ACT 2014, SECTION 702

The ‘‘Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act of 2014’’ being signed into 

law by the President is viewed by NAVPA as a significant commitment from our 

country to ensure the quality of care and services afforded to our most deserving 

population. Section 702 of the act, requiring that all public institutions of higher 

learning participating in VA-approved programs charge in-state tuition and fees to 

covered individuals as described in the act, is supported by the NAVPA membership. 

NAVPA is concerned that the implementation date of July 1, 2015 may not allow 

all state governments to pass legislation that will bring their states into compliance 

with section 702. We understand that VA is in the process of developing waiver criteria for states that are actively pursuing changes to become compliant. It is our 

position that waivers may create a situation of inequity between state institutions. 

We respectfully request that this committee strongly consider passing House Resolution 475, which includes moving the implementation date for section 702 to July 1, 

2016. 

CHOICE ACT 2014 SECTION 701

NAVPA and our membership would like to commend the Department of Veterans’ 

Affairs Education for their work in successfully implementing section 701 of the 

Choice Act. Our member schools have reported that the implementation of section 

701, including transferring covered individuals from other VA education benefits to 

the Fry Scholarship has been handled very well by the VA. 

CLOSING

In closing, on behalf of the membership institutions of NAVPA, I thank you for 

the opportunity to discuss these important issues with the committee today. We look 

forward to working with you on veteran education issues in the future. 

f 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF WILLIAM WITHROW

Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to present testimony on the efforts of the Peralta Community 

College District to assist with the education of our nation’s veterans and their families. My name is William Withrow, and I am a member of the Peralta Board of 

Trustees. I was asked by our board President, Meredith Brown, to represent the 

District today as I am a veteran and a retired officer of the United States Navy. 

I served on active duty for over 24 years. I am pleased to have this chance to discuss 

all the programs Peralta has created to assist our veteran population. 

Peralta Community College District is comprised of four colleges—College of Alameda, Merritt College, Laney College and Berkeley City College—located in the San 

Francisco East Bay Community. The four colleges serve over 30,000 students. The 

Peralta Community College District provides accessible, high quality educational 

programs and services to meet the needs of our urban, multi-cultural communities. 

The colleges and the District take pride in supporting the educational needs of veterans through a comprehensive array of programs and services. 

The Bay Area has a significant veterans population. The VA estimates that the 

area serves over 266,000 vets. Many of these were recently discharged from military 

service. They come to Northern California for employment opportunities as well as 

for the quality of life. 

A number of veterans attend our four colleges. However, not all of them take advantage of the GI educational benefits. The cost of community colleges is quite low 

in California. It costs only $46 per credit at Peralta. Thus, many veterans choose 

not to use their veterans’ benefits while attending our colleges, saving them for 

when they transfer to the more expensive University of California, California State 

Universities or private colleges. For example, the VA’s GI Bill Comparison Tool 


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identifies 144 veterans attending Berkeley City College. By our count there are over 

260. But while some veterans are not using their benefits while they are with us, 

Peralta still provides special help and assistance for them. 

Some of these services include the following: 

• Academic Credit. Peralta provides six semester units toward an Associate Degree for military service if the veteran completes an additional twelve units 

from Peralta’s colleges. This is our own initiative, not mandated by the State. 

• Tuition. Peralta waives out-of-state tuition for the first year when the students establish residency. This has been our policy for all students for years. 

We note the provisions of Section 702 of the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act of 2014 would simplify this process further. I can assure you 

Peralta will be in compliance. 

• Priority Registration. Veterans receive priority registration for classes. This 

is especially important for students enrolled in high demand classes. 

• Guaranteed Access to Counselors. This is another important service. Statewide, California does not have sufficient counselors to properly service its student population. This shortage is an ongoing problem at Peralta as well. However, we ensure that veterans receive priority to academic and mental health 

counseling. All new veteran students see a veteran’s counselor to develop a student education plan and to select their courses. 

• Orientation to College. Peralta enrolls all new veteran students in a one unit 

semester-long ‘‘Orientation to College’’ course that introduces them to college 

life and connects them to the services available to help them succeed. The semester long course ensures that students are supported through those critical 

first weeks when many students get lost and drop-out. 

• Career Guidance. To assist veterans with their post-Peralta careers, the 

Counseling Department offers transfer workshops to ease the transition to four 

year colleges and universities. The College of Alameda also has a one-stop business and career center which provides free employment services to job seekers 

and employers. The center offers a variety of services including preparation 

workshops, employer interviews, career fairs and placement assistance. 

• Dedicated Space. Finally, at each of our four colleges, we provide dedicated 

space committed to veterans, to allow them to interact and relate to their peers. 

This space is for all veterans whether they are using benefits or not. We have 

also fostered the growth of veterans student clubs. 

SUGGESTED IMPROVEMENTS

As you can see, Peralta values our veteran students, and provides services to 

them to make their experience successful. But we have some suggestions on ways 

to make the existing veterans education programs better. 

First, there needs to be more recognition and support for ‘‘remediation’’ classes. 

At Peralta, we prefer to use the term ‘‘developmental’’. Overall, Mr. Chairman, over 

70 percent of students enrolling at Peralta need some level of developmental education to get up to college level standards. Veterans benefits cover 6 hours for developmental courses that are non-credit. Quite frankly more is needed. Many students, 

especially veterans who may have been out of school for awhile, need more than 6 

hours to begin taking credit courses. 

Second, we recommend providing more institutional resources for colleges to be 

able to support their veteran populations. At present, each of our four colleges 

tracks veteran students at their respective institutions. A district-wide position, 

Dean of Equity and Student Success, has just been created that will provide a centralized way of tracking the progress of veteran students. Peralta is funding this position out of its own resources. We believe that the VA should provide it instead, 

at Peralta and other colleges. This would guarantee that colleges can provide essential services to help their veteran students succeed. 

Finally, we encourage the military services and VA to provide more transition 

support for veterans who are discharged from active duty. We have found that students often struggle to make the adjustment to civilian life and preparation for postsecondary education. Many suffer from emotional trauma from their active duty experiences and many do not understand the basics of financial management. 

You are aware of the issues, which have been identified previously, but still exist. 

We commit to working with you to help create programs to address these needs. 

In summary, Mr. Chairman, in preparation for this appearance over the last 

week, I met with a number of our veteran students. I was pleased to find that they 

are happy at Peralta and are getting a solid base to their educational and career 

goals. Veterans educational programs are the ultimate win-win situation. Many of 

the certificate and workforce programs dovetail into the experiences the students 

had when they were in service, leading to rewarding careers in auto technologies, 


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aviation engineering and allied health services. As I mentioned at the start of my 

testimony, I served as a Navy officer for 24 years. I took an oath to protect the interests of enlisted personnel. That carries over into my retirement. I am personally 

dedicated to the well-being of our veteran students and Peralta shares that deep 

commitment. We look forward to working with this Committee to provide the best 

educational experiences for our nation’s veteran population. 


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VACREP0180 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 36 here 98573.036
76 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 37 here 98573.037
77 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 38 here 98573.038
78 

Æ 


VACREP0180 with DISTILLERInsert offset folio 39 here 98573.039