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96–182 PDF 2016

S. HRG. 114–154 

LEGISLATIVE HEARING TO 

REVIEW PENDING FOREST SERVICE 

AND FORESTRY RELATED BILLS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, 

NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

JULY 16, 2015 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas, Chairman 

THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi 

MITCH MCCONNELL, Kentucky 

JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

DAVID PERDUE, Georgia 

JONI ERNST, Iowa 

THOM TILLIS, North Carolina 

BEN SASSE, Nebraska 

CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JOHN THUNE, South Dakota 

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont 

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio 

AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota 

MICHAEL BENNET, Colorado 

KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York 

JOE DONNELLY, Indiana 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania 

JOEL T. LEFTWICH, MAJORITY STAFF DIRECTOR

ANNE C. HAZLETT, MAJORITY CHIEF COUNSEL

JESSICA L. WILLIAMS, CHIEF CLERK

JOSEPH A. SHULTZ, MINORITY STAFF DIRECTOR

JONATHAN J. CORDONE, MINORITY CHIEF COUNSEL

(II) 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

HEARING(S): 

Legislative Hearing to Review Pending Forest Service and Forestry Related 

Bills ....................................................................................................................... 1 

Thursday, July 16, 2015 

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS 

Roberts, Hon. Pat, U.S. Senator from the State of Kansas, Chairman, Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry .................................................. 1 

Stabenow, Hon. Debbie, U.S. Senator from the State of Michigan ..................... 1 

Shaheen, Hon. Jeanne, U.S. Senator from the State of New Hampshire ........... 2 

Perdue, Hon. David, U.S. Senator from the State of Georgia .............................. 3 

Bennet, Hon. Michael, U.S. Senator from the State of Colorado ......................... 4 

Thune, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of South Dakota ...................... 14 

Witness 

Bonnie, Hon. Robert, Under Secretary, United States Department of Agriculture, Washington, DC ..................................................................................... 5 

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

Roberts, Hon. Pat ..................................................................................................... 22 

Stabenow, Hon. Debbie ........................................................................................... 24 

Alexander, Hon. Lamar ........................................................................................... 116 

Brown, Hon. Sherrod ............................................................................................... 26 

Enzi, Hon. Michael B. ............................................................................................. 86 

Perdue, Hon. David ................................................................................................. 27 

Thune, Hon. John .................................................................................................... 29 

Bonnie, Hon. Robert ................................................................................................ 37 

DOCUMENT(S) SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD: 

Roberts, Hon. Pat: 

S.1100—Prescribed Burn Bill: 

Sen. Thune Prescribed Burn Approval Act Hearing Request, July 9, 2015 46 

Eastern Pennington County Cooperative Grazing District, letter of support ................................................................................................................. 47 

S.1110—National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act: 

American Horse Council, written testimony .................................................. 48 

Back Country Horsemen of Alabama, Inc., letter of support for H.R. 

845-National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ................................. 50 

Back Country Horsemen of Arizona, letter of support for H.R. 845-National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ............................................. 51 

Back Country Horsemen of America, California, Shasta-Trinity, letter 

of support for H.R. 845-National Forest System Trails Stewardship 

Act .................................................................................................................. 53 

Page

IV 

Back Country Horsemen of Colorado, letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 55 

Back Country Horsemen of Idaho letter of support for H.R. 845-National 

Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................................ 56 

Back Country Horsemen of Indiana letter of support for H.R. 845-National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ............................................. 57 

Back Country Horsemen of Kansas, letter of support for H.R. 845-National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ............................................. 59 

Back Country Horsemen of Kentucky, letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 60 

Back Country Horsemen of Kentucky, letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 61 

Back Country Horsemen of Michigan, letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 62 

Back Country Horsemen of Michigan, letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 63 

Back Country Horsemen of Mississippi, letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 64 

Back Country Horsemen of Missouri, letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 66 

Back Country Horsemen of Montana letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 67 

Back Country Horsemen of Nevada, letter of support for H.R. 845-National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ............................................. 68 

Back Country Horsemen of Oregon letter of support for H.R. 845-National 

Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................................ 69 

Back Country Horsemen of Tennessee letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 70 

Back Country Horsemen of Tennessee letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 72 

Back Country Horsemen of Virginia, Iron Mountain Chapter, letter of 

support for H.R. 845-National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act .... 74 

Back Country Horsemen of Washington letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 75 

Back Country Horsemen of Washington letter of support for H.R. 845- 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................ 76 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act, list of supporters ............. 77 

Oregon Outdoor Organizations, letter of support for S.1110-National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ............................................................. 79 

Pacific Crest Trail Association, letter of support for H.R. 845-National 

Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................................ 81 

Various Organizations, letter of support for H.R. 845-National Forest 

System Trails ................................................................................................ 83 

Various Organizations, letter of support for S. 1110-National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ......................................................................... 85 

National Forest System Trails Stewardship Act, hearing request from 

Hon. Michael B. Enzi and Hon. Michael F. Bennet ................................... 88 

Western Governors’ Association, letter of support for S. 1110-National 

Forest System Trails Stewardship Act ........................................................ 89 

S.1671—National Forest Foundation: 

Hearing Request Letter from Hon. Michael F. Bennet ................................. 90 

Friends of the Dillon Ranger District (FDRD), letter of support ................. 91 

The Northeast Washington Forestry Coalition (NEWFC), letter of support ................................................................................................................. 92 

National Forest Foundation (NFF), reauthorization letter ........................... 93 

Polaris Industries Inc., letter of support ........................................................ 94 

Student Conservation Association (SCA), letter of support .......................... 95 

Water Department, City of Aurora, Colorado,letter of support .................... 96 

Volunteers for Outdoor Colorado (VOC), letter of support ............................ 97 

S.1712—Small Tract Act: 

The Wilderness Society, statement for the record on S.1110, S.1100, 

S.775, S.1712 ................................................................................................. 99 

Page

V 

S.1744—Chattahoochee Oconee National Forest Land Adjustment Act of 2015: 

Commissioner of Chattooga County, letter of support .................................. 102 

Hearing Request Letter from Hon. Johnny Isakson and Hon. David 

Perdue ............................................................................................................ 103 

USDA, Forest Service, written testimony concerning S.1744 ....................... 104 

Various organizations of Georgia, letter of support for S.1744 .................... 105 

S.61—Kisatchie National Forest Land Bill: 

Hearing request letter from Hon. David Vitter on S.61-Kisatchie Bill ........ 113 

S.755—Tennessee Wilderness Bill: 

The Pew Charitable Trusts, letter of support for S.755 ................................ 114 

Various organizations, letter of support for S.755 ......................................... 117 

Shaheen, Hon. Jeanne: 

S.1733—Forest Incentives Program Act: 

Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC), letter of support .................................. 128 

Forest Climate Group, written testimony, letter of support ......................... 129 

Hearing request from Hon. Jeanne Shaheen concerning S.1733 ................. 130 

New England Forestry Foundation, letter of support ................................... 131 

New England Forestry Foundation, ‘‘Build it With Wood: The Green 

Carbon Pump’’, Supplement to letter of support ........................................ 132 

NH Audubon, letter of support for S.1733 ..................................................... 134 

Thune, Hon. John: 

Eastern Pennington County Cooperative Grazing District, written testimony ............................................................................................................... 135 

QUESTION AND ANSWER: 

Bonnie, Hon. Robert: 

Written response to questions from Hon. Pat Roberts .................................. 138 

Written response to questions from Hon. John Hoeven ................................ 145 

Written response to questions from Hon. John Thune .................................. 146 

(1) 

LEGISLATIVE HEARING TO 

REVIEW PENDING FOREST SERVICE 

AND FORESTRY RELATED BILLS 

Thursday, July 16, 2015 

UNITED STATES SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY, 

Washington, DC 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m., in room 

328A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Pat Roberts, Chairman 

of the committee, presiding. 

Present or submitting a statement: Senators Roberts, Perdue, 

Ernst, Tillis, Sasse, Grassley, Thune, Stabenow, Brown, Klobuchar, 

Bennet, Gillibrand, Donnelly, Heitkamp, and Casey. 

STATEMENT OF HON. PAT ROBERTS, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE 

STATE OF KANSAS, CHAIRMAN, U.S. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY 

Chairman ROBERTS. Good morning. I call this meeting of the 

Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry to order. 

Today, we will hear testimony from the Department of Agriculture on several Forest Service and forestry related pieces of legislation that have been referred to our committee. I welcome and 

thank our witness, Under Secretary Robert Bonnie, for attending 

today’s hearing. 

Due to the vote at 10:45, we are like King Tut. We are pressed 

for time. So, I am going to simply submit my statement for the 

record, I ask unanimous consent to do so. Without objection, it is 

so ordered. 

[The prepared statement of Hon. Pat Roberts can be found on 

page 22 in the appendix.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. I yield to the distinguished Ranking Member. 

STATEMENT OF HON. DEBBIE STABENOW, U.S. SENATOR 

FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Senator STABENOW. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding the 

hearing. I am not sure King Tut is exactly the image—I do not 

know. We will have to think about that. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator STABENOW. But, welcome to our Under Secretary for 

Natural Resources and Environment, Robert Bonnie. Welcome. 

Thank you for your leadership. 

2 

Right on time, Senator Shaheen is walking in the door, and so 

we welcome her and her leadership on legislation. 

Mr. Chairman, I just want to thank you for putting together a 

bipartisan package of bills and really reflecting and building on 

what we did in the forestry title and other parts of the farm bill, 

conservation and so on, and I will submit my comments for the 

record. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Hon. Debbie Stabenow can be found 

on page 24 in the appendix.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. Thank you. I thank the distinguished Senator. 

Before we turn to our witness this morning, I ask unanimous 

consent to enter a variety of material into the hearing record. I 

would like to submit statements for the record from Senators Enzi 

and Alexander on their bills, as well as numerous letters of support 

for the legislation before the committee. I would only add the paper 

industry will be pleased to know that the committee has received 

a stack of letters of support in hard copy for the various pieces of 

legislation in today’s hearing. 

[The prepared statement of Hon. Michael B. Enzi can be found 

on page 86 in the appendix.] 

[The prepared statement of Hon. Lamar Alexander can be found 

on page 116 in the appendix.] 

[The following information can be found on pages 47-117 in the 

appendix.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. Our first—oh, there is Senator Shaheen. I 

recognize Senator Shaheen for comments she may make on her bill 

that she has introduced. The distinguished Senator is recognized. 

STATEMENT OF HON. JEANNE SHAHEEN, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE 

Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you very much, Chairman Roberts and 

Ranking Member Stabenow and members of the committee, for the 

opportunity to testify this morning on legislation critical to improving forest conservation in the U.S. 

Of all U.S. forests, more than half are privately owned and more 

than a third are owned by families and individuals. Private forest 

lands play a critical role in our rural economies. In New Hampshire, for example, the forest products industry contributes $3.9 billion to the state’s economy and employs over 8,000 people. Private 

forests also protect wildlife habitats, improve air quality, and reduce carbon in the atmosphere. In fact, U.S. forests and forest 

products offset about 12 to 14 percent of U.S. carbon emissions annually, which makes forests one of the largest carbon sinks in the 

country. 

Unfortunately, many private forest owners are under significant 

pressure to develop their land. Recent research by the U.S. Forest 

Service showed that housing densities are on the rise in areas 

where family-owned forest land keeps our drinking water clean and 

protects wildlife. 

What is more, without proper management practices, many forests and their ecosystems are at risk of disappearing entirely. Land 

owners need a long-term plan that makes forest management more 

affordable and ultimately helps forest owners preserve their land. 

3 

Last week, I introduced the Forest Incentives Program Act of 

2015. It aims to keep forests intact by providing financial incentives to private forest owners who undertake sustainable forestry 

management practices. Landowners would agree to maintain these 

practices under contracts with the U.S. Department of Agriculture 

for at least 15 years, and landowners who agree to a contract to 

permanently protect their lands would receive additional payments. 

Since more than 90 percent of America’s wood products come 

from private forests, the bill also promotes the use of biological 

products, including wood, instead of more energy-intensive materials. Wood products are a cost effective choice for many building 

projects because they can often be locally sourced, delivered quickly, and take less time to construct than with other building materials. 

Now, with the committee’s assistance, I am hopeful that we can 

advance this important legislation. The bill has already won broad 

support from groups including the National Alliance of Forest Owners, the Appalachian Mountain Club, and the American Forest 

Foundation. 

I want to thank you all again for allowing me to testify this 

morning and I look forward to working with the entire committee 

to advance the Forest Incentives Program Act. Thank you very 

much. 

Chairman ROBERTS. I understand that Senator Perdue and the 

distinguished Senator from Colorado may have bills also before the 

committee in reference to this subject. Senator Perdue, you were 

first. Would you like to make a short statement? 

Senator SHAHEEN. Mr. Chairman, may I be excused to go to Appropriations? 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. Oh, I am sorry. No, Senator Shaheen, we 

are going to keep you for the entire hearing. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator STABENOW. Mr. Chairman, would you mind if—I just 

want to thank Senator Shaheen. She has worked really, really hard 

on this whole area, which is very, very important. We appreciate 

your leadership, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for including this 

important bill in the package. 

Senator SHAHEEN. Thank you all very much. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Thank you, Senator Shaheen, so much for 

coming. Sorry for that. 

Senator Perdue, would you like to make a short statement? We 

are trying to get out of here before 10:45. 

STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID PERDUE, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF GEORGIA 

Senator PERDUE. I would like to put it in the record. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Perdue can be found on page 

27 in the appendix.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Bennet. 

4 

STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL BENNET, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF COLORADO 

Senator BENNET. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Chairman Roberts and Senator Stabenow, for holding today’s hearing 

and for allowing me to speak very briefly in support of three bills 

that are before the committee today, S. 1110, S. 1671, and S. 1712. 

Senator Mike Enzi has been a tremendous partner on S. 1110, 

the National Forest System Trail Stewardship Act. This bill would 

help us maintain and enhance trails on our public lands through 

volunteer efforts. Only one-quarter of the National Forest System 

trails are adequately maintained. Volunteers can help fill this gap. 

Just last year, more than 650 volunteers logged over 11,000 hours 

of trail maintenance on the world class Colorado Trail, which Caroline Bennet claims she is going to hike in her junior year of high 

school. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator BENNET. The bill I am cosponsoring with Senator Enzi 

is designed to encourage similar efforts. 

I would also like to mention two other bills before the committee 

today. S. 1671 reauthorizes the Forest Service’s program to provide 

matching funds to the National Forest Foundation. For example, 

through this foundation, guests at Colorado’s ski resorts can give 

small, matched donations for restoration projects in the national 

forest that they are enjoying. 

Finally, S. 1712 expands the authority of the Forest Service to 

sell small isolated parcels of land under the Small Tracts Act. This 

bill enhances the ability of the government to sell land that is not 

appropriate for public ownership. 

Mr. Chairman, in closing, I would again thank the committee for 

holding today’s hearing and I hope we can move these bills forward 

in the near future. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Thank you, Senator Bennet. 

Senator Stabenow. 

Senator STABENOW. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I just wanted to say again that what we are doing today builds 

on what we did in the farm bill, which was a great bipartisan effort. Members on both sides got terrific programs in there that are 

just now being implemented. 

But, Senator Bennet chaired the Forestry Subcommittee when 

we did the efforts on conservation and forestry in the farm bill, so 

I just want to say thank you for giving us a platform to get where 

we are today. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Thank you, Senator Bennet. Well done. 

We turn now to our witness, Mr. Robert Bonnie, who serves as 

the Under Secretary for Natural Resources and Environment at the 

Department of Agriculture. He directs the Forest Service and Natural Resource Conservation Service, and in a past role at the Department, he was the Senior Advisor to Secretary Vilsack on environment and climate change. Prior to his time at the USDA, Mr. 

Bonnie was Vice President for Land Conservation at the Environmental Defense Fund. He grew up on a farm in Kentucky, can sing 

the Kentucky ‘‘Old Folks at Home,’’ earned his Master’s degree in 

forestry and resources economics at Duke University. 

Welcome, Mr. Bonnie. We look forward to your testimony. 

5 

STATEMENT OF ROBERT BONNIE, UNDER SECRETARY, NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT 

OF AGRICULTURE, WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. BONNIE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today, and I will keep my comments brief as I 

know lots of you all have a vote you need to get to. So, let me mention a few bills and then turn it back to you, Mr. Chairman. 

So, I want to start with the administration’s enthusiastic support 

for the Tennessee Wilderness Act. It will add nearly 20,000 acres 

to the nation’s wilderness system and we strongly support the legislation. 

We also strongly support legislation to reauthorize the National 

Forest Foundation. The National Forest Foundation is a critical 

partner of the U.S. Forest Service and allows the agency to partner 

with businesses, foundations, communities, and many others to accomplish a variety of important work. 

We strongly support the goals of the National Forest System 

Trails Stewardship Act, which will require the Secretary to develop 

a strategy to increase the use of volunteers in trail maintenance. 

Legislation will help the agency address more than $300 million in 

backlogs of deferred trails maintenance. We look forward to working with Senators Bennet and Enzi on some aspects of the bill. 

I would also note that the Forest Service trails budget, like most 

areas of the Forest Service budget, has suffered significantly due 

to the impacts of an ever-increasing firefighting budget. Today, the 

Forest Service typically spends about half of its budget on wildland 

firefighting, up from 16 percent in the mid-1990s. Without a fix to 

this problem, such as the Wildfire Disaster Funding Act, our trails 

budget and the rest of the agency’s non-fire budget will continue 

to erode. 

The administration strongly supports the creation of incentives 

to support carbon sequestration in forests and wood products and 

looks forward to working with Senator Shaheen to address some 

technical and capacity issues in her legislation. 

The administration supports the National Forest Small Tract Act 

Amendments of 2015. The legislation will allow the agency to address a large number of small isolated tracts that are inefficient 

and costly to manage and that provide few benefits to the public. 

We would like to work with the sponsors to address some concerns 

in the legislation. 

Lastly, I want to address the Prescribed Burn Approval Act. Prescribed fire is a vital tool for the Forest Service to reduce the threat 

of catastrophic fire, to improve forest health, to manage rangeland, 

and to conserve wildlife habitat. The agency typically conducts 

thousands of prescribed fires annually. In 2014, the agency burned 

over 1.3 million acres and it had only a single fire, the Pautre fire, 

get out of control. 

Despite the best efforts of the Forest Service, using prescribed 

fire always carries risk that the fire will jump a containment line. 

However, the risk of not using prescribed fire, the risks of catastrophic forest fires on life, property, and natural resources, is 

much greater than the risk of using it. USDA and the Forest Service deeply regret the losses suffered by affected landowners in the 

Pautre fire. USDA and the Forest Service work hard to take acVerDate Nov 24 2008 08:34 May 10, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\USERS\MW42035\DESKTOP\DOCS\96182.TXT MICAH
6 

tions to help the affected landowners and we welcome a conversation about additional steps we can take to assist landowners. 

Our concern with the Prescribed Burn Approval Act is that it 

could have a chilling effect on the use of prescribed fire and the 

agency’s efforts to reduce catastrophic wildfire. The requirement for 

local and state approval is likely to substantially reduce our ability 

to use this tool. Restrictions on the use of naturally occurring 

wildfires to reduce hazardous fuels could lead to more damaging 

fires in the future. 

In the wildland firefighting community, there is a broad consensus that we need to use more prescribed fire to reduce catastrophic wildfire. We welcome a conversation on how we can do this 

safely while minimizing the risks. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Bonnie can be found on page 37 

in the appendix.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. Let me advise members that have just come 

in—Senator Perdue, Tillis, Bennet, and Heitkamp—we are trying 

to get done by 10:45 for the vote, so if you can keep your remarks, 

or your questions, at least, to a minimum. 

I have got a question that falls within the Natural Resources and 

Environment mission area. Last week, the Department announced 

in a press release that 98 percent of farmers have successfully filed 

their necessary paperwork—I think the paperwork is AD–1026—for 

conservation compliance, as required by the last farm bill, of the 

new filers purchasing crop insurance that in the past have not had 

to self-certify the compliance. 

My question is, do you have a grasp or some idea of how many 

will trigger an NRCS referral and subsequent administrative action 

from NRCS for a highly erodible land or wetland determination? 

We know that the NRCS has ongoing determination backlog issues 

in certain regions of the country. In light of the backlog and the 

number of new filers, is it possible to quantify this workload at the 

agency and how NRCS will prioritize working through the backlog 

plus any new administrative actions? 

Mr. BONNIE. So, I do not have a specific number for you, but I 

am happy to go back and look for that. What I will tell you is that 

we have put additional resources into a number of states, particularly in the Dakotas, to reduce the backlog. We have also just finalized our off-site methods to look at wetland determinations, and 

our expectation is that will further help us reduce the backlog. So, 

I think we are making strides there. There is clearly more to do 

and we will work with NRCS staff and others in the Department 

to get the answer to your questions. 

Chairman ROBERTS. I appreciate that. 

Senator Stabenow. 

Senator STABENOW. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Under Secretary Bonnie, thank you again for your efforts and the 

Department’s efforts. I wondered if you would speak a little bit 

more about prescribed burns, because I am concerned. We have a 

very important package of bills in front of us, a bipartisan effort. 

One of the bills, though, dealing with prescribed burns, I think is 

of concern, needs a little bit more work to get this right. I know 

there was a specific concern that the bill responds to, which I toVerDate Nov 24 2008 08:34 May 10, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00012 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\USERS\MW42035\DESKTOP\DOCS\96182.TXT MICAH
7 

tally understand and respect. But, I know that while you need to 

exercise an abundance of caution that burns do not get out of control, that they are an important tool for the Fire Service. 

So, I wonder if you might speak more about that, because I think 

we need to focus on that and make sure that anything we report 

gets this right so that you can continue to use that tool for managing forests. 

Mr. BONNIE. Thank you very much. Prescribed fire is, indeed, a 

critically important tool for a range of issues, not the least of which 

is addressing catastrophic wildfire in large parts of the West. One 

of the reasons we have as intense fire as we have today is because 

for decades we have put out all the small, low-intensity fires, and 

fuels have built up in many of our forests and grasslands across 

the country. We have to have prescribed fire as a tool to be able 

to address that. 

There is always an inherent risk in using prescribed fire, despite 

our best efforts, that some will jump containment lines, and I think 

we welcome a conversation with all of you of ensuring we do as 

good a job to respond to landowners when that happens. 

But, what I would tell you is I think the risks of not using fire 

are substantial in terms of addressing catastrophic wildfire, and so 

we have to learn how to balance those risks at the same time that 

we are sensitive to the fact that we may have fires that get out of— 

that can get out of control. 

The other thing I would say is that prescribed fire is very important for a number of wildlife issues, whether it is quail in the 

Southeast, wild turkey. It is a critically important management 

tool and we need to continue to be able to utilize that for a range 

of resource concerns. 

Senator STABENOW. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the interest of 

time, I will stop at this point. If we have time at the end, I have 

another question or two, but at this point will defer to my colleagues. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Perdue. 

Senator PERDUE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be very brief. 

Our bill, S. 1744, Mr. Bonnie, would allow your Department to 

well at market rate about 30 tracts of National Forest System land 

in Georgia totaling about 4,000 acres and use the proceeds to 

strengthen the existing forest. You may not have had time yet to 

look at it, as I understand it, but it is modeled after the same legislation in states like Virginia, Arkansas, Texas, Mississippi, and 

Florida. I know you have experience in those states. Can you just 

elaborate briefly for us that process and your experience there and 

how you worked with the conservation partners in those states. 

Mr. BONNIE. Well, what I would tell you, while we have not had 

time to get into the specifics of the legislation, we support the 

broad approach. This is—it is an important approach that will 

allow us to deal with a lot of small tracts that are, some of them 

developed, some of them highly isolated, and that are, frankly, expensive for us to manage. The approach here is one we support, 

and then use the proceeds to work to purchase other more important tracts. 

This is, as you point out, this is an approach that has worked 

in a number of states, and as you also know, there are a number 

8 

of conservation partners that have been working with you and others in developing this legislation. Again, we think it is a very sound 

approach and look forward to conversations with you and your staff 

on how we can move this forward. 

Senator PERDUE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Bennet. 

Senator BENNET. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. I 

wish every hearing we had moved with this dispatch. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator BENNET. During the—and, Mr. Secretary, thank you for 

your excellent public service. During the 2014 farm bill, we worked 

on a provision to designate acreage suffering from insect and disease epidemics for expedited treatment. As you well know, and I 

know you have seen, Colorado has been ravaged by the bark beetle 

epidemic. In Northern Colorado and Southeastern Wyoming, more 

than four million acres have been affected. 

Could you please provide us with an update on the implementation of this new authority, and while you are at it, could you reinforce why changes to the budgeting process are so important in 

terms of fire borrowing? 

Mr. BONNIE. Will do. I very much appreciate the question. So, 

from a standpoint of the fire budget, I will start there. If you look 

in the late 1990s, 1998, and compare the level of staff on the National Forest System today, we have about 39 percent fewer staff 

in the non-fire portion of the Forest Service than we had back then, 

and the reason is we have seen a substantial growth in our wildfire 

budget. As I said in my testimony, in most years, nearly 50 percent 

of our budget goes to wildland firefighting. 

That challenge has reduced our capacity to be able to get work 

done, whether it is trails work, whether it is forest restoration. 

Now, the good news is we are actually getting more work done in 

the woods. We are increasing the amount of acres we are treating 

and we are producing more board feed as a result. But, the fundamental challenge for us is one of capacity. It is not a lack of will, 

it is a lack of capacity for the agency. 

When you look at the excellent provisions in the 2014 farm bill— 

thanks to this committee and to you in particular for those provisions—we have moved quickly in working with governors to designate about 47 million acres across the country as areas that are 

insect and disease prone and that could use an expedited categorical exclusion under NEPA to address insect and disease in those 

areas where collaboratives have worked together to put together 

those projects. 

We did not get any new additional funding, but we have got so 

far about 17 projects under—that are moving forward using this, 

and that number will ratchet up over time. What we were not able 

to do because we, for example, in Colorado, have got a team committed to working on a large landscape scale effort on the GMUG, 

we did not want to take those teams off and put them on insect 

and disease. We expect that we will do increasingly more projects. 

We appreciate this authority and will begin to build it into our 

broader effort. So, this will become a very valuable tool to us. 

Again, the fundamental constraint with us doing more immediately has been just a lack of capacity. 

9 

Senator BENNET. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Tillis. 

Senator TILLIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be brief. 

One thing I wanted to say, I think that the Enzi-Bennet bill is 

a great idea. Actually, I probably would not have gotten involved 

in politics had I not led a volunteer effort for trail clearing for a 

single-track mountain bike trail on public land. So, I think that is 

great progress. 

I did have a question about Senator Thune’s bill and your comment about your concern with it. Is there something short of what 

he is asking for—I think what we are trying to get to is coordination between state, local, and federal authorities—something short 

of that versus simple opposition to the bill that you all have 

thought about? 

Mr. BONNIE. So, I think a couple of things in that. We always 

try and do our best in working with the State Foresters in North 

Carolina and other states on not only developing burn plans, but 

also making sure neighbors and local fire folks know about these— 

this legislation. So, that is one piece. We are always looking for 

ways to improve the ways we do prescribed fire. I think we do an 

excellent job. I think we have got great expertise. But, there is always more work to be done there, and coordination with State Foresters and others in states is critically important there. 

I think the other issue that I think we welcome a conversation 

on is what happens when something like the Pautre fire happens, 

where a fire escapes onto private lands. The Federal Torts Claim 

Act is one way to deal with that. We try to use other tools, including $41,000 through Environmental Quality Incentive programs, 

and we looked at FSA programs. The Forest Service looked at its 

own programs. I think it is worth having a conversation about how 

we can think about, whether it is thinking about disaster programs 

or other things in the farm bill. We welcome that conversation. It 

is to nobody’s benefit to have neighbors or others who are upset 

about the use of this tool, and so we very much welcome a conversation around those issues. 

Senator TILLIS. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Heitkamp. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

You probably were not real excited to see me walk through the 

door—— 

Mr. BONNIE. I am always excited to see you. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator HEITKAMP. You know, I want to just kind of talk a little 

bit about the Pautre fire and what has happened subsequent, and 

it is exactly those kinds of situations that have led to bills like Senator Thune’s bill. I think one of the things that disturbs me about 

that fire is that when you look back, and when I talk to the ranchers who begged the Forest Service not to light that fire, who knew 

that they were at a high probability that fire would get out of control, in fact, when you look at the Bismarck Weather Service at the 

time, it called for gusts of 30 miles per hour in that area, but yet 

you guys lit the fire. That is one thing. 

People make mistakes, but when you make mistakes in that context, against that backdrop, and then you proceed to tell the ranchVerDate Nov 24 2008 08:34 May 10, 2016 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\USERS\MW42035\DESKTOP\DOCS\96182.TXT MICAH
10 

ers, who have lost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars worth 

of equipment and inputs that they have put on the grasslands and 

you say it was not negligence, and, so, we are at the spot here 

where I understand and appreciate that you are going to manage 

your lands and prescribed burns are part of that. But, you have got 

to have a response when things get out of control that is not, we 

used our best judgment. Therefore, we are never negligent. 

If there is an opportunity to revisit that determination within the 

USDA and the Forest Service on what was done there and take a 

look at your ‘‘not negligent’’ determination, that would be greatly 

appreciated. 

I am back to Senator Tillis’s example. It is exactly examples like 

this that lead to what may be perceived to be an interference with 

making those decisions, and so I would ask that you reexamine the 

facts of that fire, you actually personally call some of the ranchers 

out there who have told me that they repeatedly asked that fire not 

be lit and that we take care of that problem, and then look at how 

we can fix those problems in the future. 

Mr. BONNIE. Well, again, I think USDA and the Forest Service 

understand the deep concerns from landowners there and want to 

do everything we can to put it right. Our job under the Federal 

Tort Claims Act is to—we are bound by the law there and the 

standard is negligence. I respectfully disagree about whether we 

have met that standard and it is the General Counsel’s call that 

we have not. 

I think, again, we tried to do, through EQIP and other things, 

to do as much as we could to be sensitive to the ranchers, fencing 

and other things, after, and again recognize that there is more we 

could do there and look forward to a conversation, whether it is disaster or other programs, to look at ways that we could do more. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Well, as you know, we have been involved 

with this fire from the very beginning in my office, and if this is 

not negligence—and I have a little experience with the law—if this 

is not negligence, I do not know what is. 

Mr. BONNIE. Well, you have—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. You would never be held accountable. 

Mr. BONNIE. You have a lot more experience in the law than I 

do, and so I certainly would not question that at all. I would just 

say, I think we welcome the conversation about what else we can 

do to work in this area. The Federal Tort Claims Act is much bigger than prescribed fire or the Department of Agriculture and probably deserves a conversation with the Department of Justice on 

those types of things. But, I think, again, we welcome a conversation about if there is more we can do. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Heitkamp, you have brought up an 

issue that is of a strong interest in the committee and we appreciate that. Secretary Bonnie, thank you for a straightforward answer. I think there is going to be a lot of meaningful dialogue that 

can come of this, but I am glad to say that you will be a partner 

in that effort, and Senator Heitkamp, thank you so much for bringing this up. 

I would like to insert into the record the statement of Senator 

Brown. 

11 

[The prepared statement of Senator Brown can be found on page 

26 in the appendix.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Ernst. 

Senator ERNST. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know we have votes 

coming up, so in the interest of time, I will pass on questions today. 

Thank you. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Splendid. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator ERNST. Thank you very much. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Sasse. 

Senator SASSE. It went so well for Senator Ernst, I will say the 

same. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Stabenow. 

Senator STABENOW. Well, I appreciate that. You sure you guys 

do not want to—we are going to do a couple more questions here 

as we proceed. Again, thank you, Under Secretary Bonnie. 

I wanted to ask you, Senator Shaheen has put forward an effort 

as a part of this package to help private forest owners protect their 

lands from development and has also recognized the benefits of 

using bio-based materials in commercial buildings. One of the 

things we did in the farm bill is promote bio-based manufacturing 

as a way to create jobs, making things, growing things, bringing it 

together. I wonder if you could talk more and update us on the Department’s efforts in promoting wood products and other bio-based 

goods. 

Mr. BONNIE. I very much appreciate the question, and to Senator 

Shaheen’s point, about 14 percent of our greenhouse gas emissions 

right now come back down because of the forestry sector, because 

of the work, largely in private ownership, the work those landowners do. So, having markets, viable timber markets and other 

markets that create an economic incentive for landowners to maintain forest land is vitally important, not only for rural economic development, but also for dealing with a variety of wildlife and other 

environmental issues. 

We have worked hard to implement the bio-based program, and 

the good news is, it has now opened up to wood products that can 

get the bio-based label. So, that is an important step forward, I 

think. In addition, there is considerable work going on in the Department around wood in tall building construction and green 

building. It is not an area I am directly involved in, but there is 

a lot of work going on there, again, to create markets for sustainable timber use. Also, a lot of interest in bio-energy and opportunities there to create markets. Again, we have to create economic incentives for landowners to want to maintain forest land and the 

best way to do that is by creating viable markets. 

Senator STABENOW. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Would any other member like to ask any additional questions? We are waiting on Senator Thune, who would 

like to ask a couple of questions. Senator Heitkamp. 

Senator HEITKAMP. As long as we have a waiting period here, I 

do have another question. Senator Dorgan back in 2006 created a 

demonstration project which required Forest Service to work collaboratively in creating implementation plans. I have heard a lot 

12 

from the grazing associations that the Forest Service has not been 

following the procedure laid out in those demonstration plans. Can 

you tell us what steps you are taking to correct that and how we 

can work more collaboratively with our associations? 

Mr. BONNIE. I know the Chief has been to North Dakota to meet 

with some of the grazers there. I know, as well, I worked with your 

predecessor and Senator Hoeven, particularly in the McKenzie 

Grazing Association, to look for ways that we could do a better job 

of working together. The Forest Supervisor in the Dakotas is committed to this. There is more work we can do. We are not going to 

agree on everything. But, I think, collaboration is key, and we have 

also, I know, worked with North Dakota State University on ways 

that we can use better science. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Just to follow on, obviously, these demonstration projects are going to terminate in 2016. Are you guys committed to extending those demonstrations? 

Mr. BONNIE. So, I am not familiar with the demonstrations. 

Happy to work with you on it, and I am assuming we are, but I 

am not briefed up on specifically these demonstrations. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROBERTS. I have one further question. Last year, the 

Department initiated the Joint Chiefs Landscape Restoration Partnership—that is going to be a heck of an acronym—between the 

Chief of Forest Service and the Chief of the NRCS to restore landscapes across different types of land ownership and to reduce wildlife threats to communities and landowners, to protect water quality and habitat for wildlife. Can you tell me what the future plans 

for this initiative will be and with regards to any additional program resources that could possibly be directed in a very tight budget toward this partnership. Could there be improvements to this 

partnership to foster more restoration on landscapes? 

Mr. BONNIE. I really appreciate the question. The effort here is 

a recognition that wildland fire and watershed health do not respect property boundaries and that it is important to have the federal government in managing the National Forest System lands 

working closely with neighboring landowners. The idea here is to 

work across larger landscapes, particularly in areas where catastrophic wildfire is a challenge, to reduce fuel loads both on the 

federal land and on the private lands, and to use the NRCS programs to do that. 

You have in a number of places across the country, I think we 

have, I want to say it is 27 or 28 projects now over the two-year 

implementation. States across the country are working with the 

Forest Service and NRCS, working with conservation districts, producers, and others to treat lands, to improve watershed health, and 

to reduce fire. 

When we originally rolled out the program, we committed to 

three years. We will—I think that third year now will be next fiscal 

year and we will look for additional opportunities. EQIP has been 

very important in this area. I think we will evaluate after three 

years and decide whether we want to move forward. 

Chairman ROBERTS. I appreciate your support for EQIP, which 

always seems to be suffering under the budget axe, and we, then, 

have the responsibility of restoring funds, which we will try to do. 

13 

Senator Casey. 

Senator CASEY. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 

Mr. Under Secretary, we appreciate you being here. We appreciate your public service, especially on these difficult issues. 

I am one who believes that as we discharge our duty to do oversight, part of that is to be critical where we should and part of that 

is to be tough in our questioning, but we should also provide the 

resources that you need to do your job. 

I wanted to focus on the resource question as it relates to 

invasive species. In our state, for example, the emerald ash borer 

has become a substantial issue, at least in the time that I have 

been in the Senate, and it is not a subject here I knew a lot about 

before I got to the Senate. I know you have to wrestle with these 

and other difficult issues, but first of all, I want to commend USDA 

for the response that has been undertaken over the last couple 

years in preventing the introduction and spread of invasive pests 

and plants. But, I come back to the question of resources and dollars. Can you give us a sense of, A, what you need, and B, how we 

can be helpful? 

Mr. BONNIE. I very much appreciate the question. We have got 

a number of issues with invasive species. Emerald ash borer is one 

of the more acute, but there are a number across the country. They 

are creating real challenges for forests as well as other ecosystems, 

cheatgrass and you name it. 

The Department actually has a number of agencies working on 

this. Agricultural Research Service doing some important research 

into a number of areas. APHIS obviously oversees a lot of our 

invasive species work. But, the two land management agencies deal 

with this in a significant way. NRCS, particularly as it relates to 

agricultural lands and rangeland, and then the Forest Service with 

emerald ash borer and others. 

You know, a lot of our resources for this is out of our state and 

private forestry program and those resources tend to be passed 

through to state foresters and others on the ground for states to 

implement these types of programs. Like a lot of things in the Forest Service budget, those areas have been squeezed because of the 

increasing fires that we are seeing, longer fire seasons, and so we 

are having to make very difficult choices within the Forest Service 

about where we spend money. So, I will give you another pitch for 

the Wildland Fire Disaster Act and fixing the fire budget problem, 

which will help with this and a lot of other things. 

So, I think that is one area that is important, and I think also 

looking at the opportunities for bolstering the state and private 

budget to deal with these is going to be incredibly important. I 

think there are some creative things we can do with NRCS dollars 

as well as some of the other agencies to continue to do work here, 

but it is a critical area and one that I think we wish we had additional funds to address. 

Senator CASEY. Mr. Chairman, in the interest of conserving and 

preserving valuable time, I will yield and submit some in writing. 

Chairman ROBERTS. I thank the Senator. 

Senator Grassley. 

Senator GRASSLEY. I have no questions. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Are you well? 

14 

[Laughter.] 

Senator GRASSLEY. I was taking care of the Finance Committee 

for you. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. I really appreciate that. Did you get the 

GAO to answer the question that you asked them? 

Senator GRASSLEY. Just the way I wanted it answered. 

Chairman ROBERTS. I appreciate that very much. 

Senator Klobuchar and Senator Thune would like to make an appearance, but at this time, I would ask unanimous consent—— 

Senator STABENOW. There he is. 

Senator THUNE. Talk about perfect timing. 

Chairman ROBERTS. But, I would just ask unanimous consent on 

behalf of Senator Brown, who was present before the committee, 

that his statement be inserted into the record just prior to the recognition of Senator Ernst. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Coop, are you ready? 

Senator THUNE. Yes, sir. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Thune. 

Senator THUNE. This is a bull rider here today. Is that just for 

me? 

[Laughter.] 

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN THUNE, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE 

STATE OF SOUTH DAKOTA 

Senator THUNE. Mr. Chairman, thank you, and thanks for holding this hearing, and thank you for your patience. I was running 

over from the Finance Committee, where we had a hearing on—— 

Senator GRASSLEY. A very important hearing. 

Senator THUNE. A very important hearing that Senator Grassley 

was—— 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. It was a hearing that was exceedingly important, and I should have been in attendance. Obviously, we were 

taking care of the forests of America. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman ROBERTS. Including your state. 

Senator THUNE. Equally important, I might add. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator THUNE. I would just like, if I could—and I have got a 

statement I will submit for the record, but ask just a couple of 

questions. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Thune can be found on page 

29 in the appendix.] 

Senator THUNE. I know that the Under Secretary is delighted to 

have to wait around to answer some of these questions, but I have 

got a bill that addresses a situation that we faced in the last couple 

of years in South Dakota. We have had two fires that have burned 

out of control, one started by the Forest Service, which damaged 

a lot of property, cost people in Western South Dakota a lot of 

money, and never acceptance of responsibility by the Forest Service 

or any attempt to make whole some of these people who were affected by this. It happened two years ago up in Northwestern 

15 

South Dakota and then more recently here this year in the Black 

Hills near Wind Cave. 

I introduced a bill that very simply would just require collaboration with local—with the state, local entities before these prescribed burns are initiated. I guess I would appreciate the question 

from Secretary Bonnie about any information that he might have 

about the number of claims filed over the past ten years resulting 

from prescribed burns that damage private property and the number of claims that were actually paid. Do you have that information, and if so, could you provide it to me in the near future? 

Mr. BONNIE. I am sure we have it. I do not have it with me, but 

I am happy to provide that. 

Senator THUNE. Would you support providing the Secretary with 

discretionary authority to pay upon receipt of credible claims indemnity payments under $25,000 or some other appropriate cap 

rather than forcing claimants to wait two years or more? 

Mr. BONNIE. The two-year wait is clearly a challenge for many 

producers. I think what I said earlier today is I would welcome a 

conversation about more that we can do to make landowners right. 

It is not in our interest to have folks out there that are feeling like 

they are slighted by the federal agency. So, welcome the conversation. Not exactly sure of the right mechanism. As we tried to do 

things both with EQIP as well as look at some other programs, but 

I think we very much welcome that conversation. 

Senator THUNE. Well, if we could, because the, particularly the 

Pautre fire up near Lemmon, South Dakota, several years now 

passed and this process just drags on and on and on. These people 

are left in just a state of complete uncertainty. 

You provide in your testimony that an accelerated claims process 

could benefit individuals who have suffered damages resulting from 

an escaped prescribed fire when these unfortunate events occur. Do 

you have any suggestions about how an accelerated claims process 

could be implemented? 

Mr. BONNIE. So, I mentioned earlier that I am nervous about— 

you have got the wrong guy up here if you want to talk about the 

Federal Tort Claims Act. That is a DOJ issue. But, I do think there 

are other things we could do. There are other programs. We could 

look at livestock disaster programs and others that might allow us 

to act more quickly here. So, I think, again, we are open to those 

conversations with you all and recognize that it is going to be important not just for these landowners, but, frankly, for prescribed 

fire going forward. 

Senator THUNE. Okay. I appreciate that, that how we deal with 

these after the fact, but I also think that—and this is why we filed 

the bill—is on the front end, before these things are started, people 

who understand these conditions—the Forest Service had no business in a couple of these circumstances starting fires, given the 

weather conditions that were existing at the time, and people at 

the local level would know that. So, all we are asking for is consultation on the front end, before this happens, and work with folks 

and get their sign-off, and then on the back end, when something 

like this happens, a response that is actually timely, expedited, and 

effective. 

16 

So, I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me the opportunity to 

make those remarks. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Mr. Secretary, you can see very clearly that 

with Senator Heitkamp asking very similar questions and Senator 

Thune asking questions, this is a very pertinent issue, and I know 

you will respond, like you said before, with meaningful dialogue. 

Mr. BONNIE. Absolutely. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Klobuchar. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Under Secretary, for being here. 

I was actually at one of our paper mills just the last week, owned 

by Potlatch, an amazing mill with a hundred employees, pays incredibly well, and has been able to get through the downturn. Obviously, logging is very important in our part of the world. My Dad 

grew up in an area where my Grandpa worked in the mines, and 

when the mines closed, he became a logger and was in timber. It 

is very important up in Northern Minnesota. 

There are some issues right now, and the first one I wanted to 

ask about was the multiple use of public lands. I met with officials, 

as I mentioned, at several mills in Northern Minnesota who are 

concerned that Minnesota national forests are not producing at 

their allowable sale quantity. I know the direction of the Forest 

Service timber program has improved recently and responsible timber harvests on public lands have grown to nearly three billion 

board feet. 

What, if anything, is holding the Forest Service back from continuing this upward trend? Are you using the new tool from the 

farm bill, and what can we do to get to the actual allowable sale 

quantity, because for me, as Senator Thune brought up, you have 

forest fires because you have got wood that should actually be 

taken out, and then you have, right now with the economy doing 

better, you actually have a need for the wood. Instead of getting 

it from the forests, they are having to import it from other countries, which makes no sense to me, so—— 

Mr. BONNIE. It is a great question. So, our top priority in management of the National Forest System has been to increase the 

pace and scale of forest restoration and management to get more 

work done. As you point out, we have increased the amount of timber sold by about 18 percent since 2008, but there is more work 

to be done. The fundamental challenge we have right now is one 

of capacity. We have got 39 percent fewer employees on the National Forest System than we had in the late 1990s, and the reason 

for that is we are devoting more and more of our resources to fighting fire. As you point out, we need to do more work on the front 

end to reduce wildland fire. 

The Wildland Fire Disaster Funding Act, as well as the President’s budget, has a proposal which will increase the amount of 

work we can get done on the national forests by about ten percent. 

That is equivalent to about 300 million board feet. So, if there is 

one thing Congress can do in the immediate term that will produce 

more timber, that is it. 

In addition, we are implementing the farm bill provisions, both 

insect and disease, which can provide some relief, as well, with 

17 

some streamlined processes. We will continue to move forward with 

that. 

Then, good neighbor authority in the farm bill, as well, will be 

important for areas where there are state lands involved. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Right, exactly. We know in Minnesota the 

borders of our forests do not always align with private, state, or 

federal property lines, which often leads to these requests for conveyances, and you mentioned the good neighbors authority out of 

the 2014 farm bill, and that gave the Forest Service additional 

flexibility to work with willing state and private landowners, and 

I know you are working with the Minnesota Department of Natural 

Resources on several projects to increase timber production and 

protect communities from wildfire. So, is there an update on when 

you plan to conclude the new good neighbor agreements? 

Mr. BONNIE. So, we finished—we now have the new templates 

that have gone through the Paperwork Reduction Act and been finalized, so we are now engaging with states directly on how to do 

that, and we are educating our staff through training and webinars 

and other things. So, there are conversations right now, and I believe in Minnesota, but I will check on that, with State Foresters 

and others about how to engage and use this authority. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Okay. We will have a follow-up on a staff 

level here to try to figure this out, because I think it would be very 

helpful. 

Last question, the Northern long-eared bat. As you know, our 

forests are a great natural resource that provide multiple benefits, 

including habitat for wildlife. I have led now several bipartisan letters and worked with the Department of Interior—I just actually 

spoke with someone about this this morning—and USDA on ensuring the health of our forests, maintaining the communities, and 

preserving the Northern long-eared bat. As you know, we are trying to do this in a pragmatic way that allows our logging to continue. 

Mr. Bonnie, will the Forest Service be able to implement its timber sale program this fiscal year and going forward without disruption due to the threatened listing, or will you need to engage in 

project-by-project consultation with the Fish and Wildlife Service? 

Mr. BONNIE. So, I do not believe so. We have had conversations— 

I have had conversations personally with Dan Ashe, Director of the 

Fish and Wildlife Service, on this issue, and I know there are a lot 

of conversations at the regional and local level in the Superior and 

other national forests. 

As you point out, the threat to the long-eared bat is not forest 

management. It is white-nose syndrome. Interestingly, the Forest 

Service is doing some of the best research on that right now—— 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Good. 

Mr. BONNIE. —and has some very good work there. 

But, I think we recognize that we need to keep forests as forests 

in order to protect this bat and that means creating a viable forest 

industry, and we will continue to work with the Fish and Wildlife 

Service to make sure there is flexibility through a 4(d) rule or 

whatever to ensure that continues to happen. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Do you think we can still go forward with 

a timber sale program this fiscal year? 

18 

Mr. BONNIE. I do. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. We will not need this consultation? All 

right. Thank you. 

Chairman ROBERTS. For all members, until the vote is called, if 

anybody has any questions, why, I am more than happy to recognize Senator Ernst and, I think, Senator Sasse, who also yielded 

back knowing, of course, that we were going to vote at 10:45. Obviously, that time has left. Imagine that. 

Senator Gillibrand. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this hearing. 

Thank you, Madam Ranking Member. 

New York, which most people do not know, is one of the greenest 

states in the country, with 18.9 million acres of forest covering 63 

percent of its land. That is nearly one acre per New Yorker. New 

York is home to the Finger Lakes National Forest, nearly three 

million acres of forest preserved in the Adirondack and Catskill 

Parks, and more than 787,000 acres of state forests. Each year, our 

residents and millions of New Yorkers enjoy cleaner air, cleaner 

water, beautiful vistas, recreational opportunities, and economic 

benefits, and our forestry industry actually employs 60,000 New 

Yorkers and contributes about $4.6 billion to our economy. 

So, one of the challenges that the forests in New York face are 

the threats from pests, including the Asian long-horned beetle, the 

emerald ash borer, and most recently, the Southern pine beetle, 

and it is devastating Long Island and the Central Pine Barrens. 

The Forest Service National Strategic Framework for Invasive Species Management focuses on prevention, detection, control, management, and restoration. Can you talk a little bit about the ongoing 

efforts by the Forest Service to address the persistent pest threats 

to New York’s forests and the emerging threats to our pine forests? 

Mr. BONNIE. I am happy to. I think a few decades ago, nobody 

thought the Southern pine beetle was going to show up in New 

York, but, indeed, it has, and we are seeing a number. That is native to the South, but the other pests you talk about—Asian longhorned beetle, the emerald ash borer, and others—are obviously introduced pests. We have resources in our state and private program that pass through State Foresters that we use to address 

many of these threats, but there are also other parts, as I mentioned earlier today, other parts of the agency, of the Department, 

APHIS, NRCS, and others, that have resources here, as well. 

There is an enormous need here and, frankly, we do not have the 

resources we need to do everything we can on invasive species, and 

I think we are having to make some difficult choices related to 

these issues. So, I think we will continue to focus on this, but as 

with a lot of things in the Forest Service, our budget is squeezed 

on some of these efforts and we will have to prioritize where we 

put our dollars. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Do you have a sense of how much it would 

cost to address these pests appropriately? 

Mr. BONNIE. I do not. I think the price tag is very, very high for 

some of these, and I think if you open up the universe to things 

like cheatgrass and others, that the universe gets significantly 

larger, still. 

19 

Senator GILLIBRAND. So, I would like your office to prepare a 

budget and actually give us an estimate for how much it costs so 

that we can begin to think about, if we are really going to address 

these invasive species, what it costs so that we can debate it, discuss it, decide whether it is worth that investment. But, I do not 

want to hear the excuse, we do not have resources, because we 

have to meet these challenges. So, give me a budget, tell me what 

it costs, and then we as a committee will work on that and we will 

work with appropriators. 

Mr. BONNIE. Great. Appreciate that. 

Senator GILLIBRAND. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 

Chairman ROBERTS. Senator Ernst, would you like to opine with 

any questions that you have? 

Senator ERNST. No. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman ROBERTS. I appreciate that. 

Well, members, that concludes our hearing this morning, unless 

anybody has any further comment. I want to thank our witness, especially, for sharing your experiences relating to pending Forest 

Service and forest related bills and answering questions in a forthright manner. Your thoughts and insight will be helpful as we consider the legislation later this summer. 

This committee stands adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 10:54 a.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

(21) 

A P P E N D I X 

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