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79–497 PDF 2002

S. HRG. 107–436

NOMINATION HEARING FOR JOSEPH JWU-SHAN

JEN AND JAMES R. MOSELEY

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,

NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

JULY 12, 2001

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry

(

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.agriculture.senate.gov

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

TOM HARKIN, Iowa, Chairman

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont

KENT CONRAD, North Dakota

THOMAS A. DASCHLE, South Dakota

MAX BAUCUS, Montana

BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas

ZELL MILLER, Georgia

DEBBIE A. STABENOW, Michigan

BEN NELSON, Nebraska

MARK DAYTON, Minnesota

PAUL DAVID WELLSTONE, Minnesota

RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana

JESSE HELMS, North Carolina

THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi

MITCH MCCONNELL, Kentucky

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas

PETER G. FITZGERALD, Illinois

CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming

WAYNE ALLARD, Colorado

TIM HUTCHINSON, Arkansas

MICHEAL D. CRAPO, Idaho

MARK HALVERSON, Staff Director

ROBERT E. STURM, Chief Clerk

DAVID L. JOHNSON, Chief Counsel

KEITH LUSE,Staff Director for the Minority

(II)

(III)

C O N T E N T S

Page

HEARING(S):

Nomination for James R. Moseley to be Deputy Secretary, U.S. Department

of Agriculture and Joseph Jwu-shan Jen to be Undersecretary of

Agriculture for Research, Education, and Economics ....................................... 01

Thursday, July 12, 2001

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS

Harkin, Hon. Tom, a U.S. Senator from Iowa, Chairman, Committee on

Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry .................................................................. 01

Lugar, Hon. Richard G., a U.S. Senator from Indiana, Ranking Member,

Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry ......................................... 05

Buyer, Hon. Steve, a Representative in Congress from Indiana ......................... 06

Kerns, Hon. Brian, a Representative in Congress from Indiana ......................... 06

WITNESSES

Jen, Joseph Jwu-shan, of California, to be Undersecretary of Agriculture

for Research, Education and Economics ............................................................. 02

Moseley, James R., of Indiana, to be Deputy Secretary, U.S. Department

of Agricultur ......................................................................................................... 08

APPENDIX

PREPARED STATEMENTS:

Jen, Joseph Jwu-shan ...................................................................................... 22

Moseley, James R. ............................................................................................ 24

DOCUMENT(S) SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD:

Allard, Hon. Wayne .......................................................................................... 28

Jen, Joseph Jwu-shan, Biography ................................................................... 30

Moseley, James R., Biography ......................................................................... 57

Questions and Answers:

Conrad, Hon. Kent ........................................................................................... 79

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NOMINATION HEARING: JOSEPH JWU-SHAN

JEN AND JAMES R. MOSELEY

THURSDAY, JULY 12, 2001

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION AND FORESTRY, Washington, DC.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 8:37 a.m., in room SR– 328-A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas Harkin,

[Chairman of the Committee], presiding.

Present or submitting a statement: Senators Harkin, Dayton,

Lugar, Roberts, Allard and Crapo.

STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS HARKIN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM

IOWA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

The CHAIRMAN. The Senate Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry

Committee will come to order.

Today, we are continuing our series of hearings on the next Farm

bill. Before we do that however, we are going to turn to two nominations: the nomination of Dr. Joseph J. Jen to be USDA’s Undersecretary for Research, Education and Economics and the nomination of Mr. James Moseley to be Deputy Secretary at the Department of Agriculture. I would ask both nominees to stand and raise

your right hand and be sworn in.

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to provide is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so

help you God?

Mr. JEN. Yes.

Mr. MOSELEY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Please be seated, and I would ask both of you,

do you agree that you will appear before any duly constituted committee of Congress if asked to appear?

Mr. JEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOSELEY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Today, at first, we will be considering the nomination of Dr. Joseph J. Jen to be USDA’s Undersecretary for Research, Education

and Economics. Dr. Jen is currently dean of the College of Agriculture at California Polytechnic State University and has a long

and distinguished career in agricultural research, both in the private and the public sector. He has published more than 60 scientific articles and published two books. These research achievements led Dr. Jen to be elected a fellow of the Institute of Food

2

Technologists in 1992. This is a very high honor, as there are only

about 100 such fellows worldwide.

Clearly, there are many exciting and promising developments

and possibilities in agricultural research. I look forward to working

with you, Dr. Jen, in the important position for which you are nominated. Dr. Jen, I would also like to recognize your wife, Salina

Jen, and your brother, James Jen, whom I understand are here in

the audience someplace behind you there, and we welcome you to

the committee. Thank you very much both for being here.

Before I turn to you, Dr. Jen, for your statement, I would first

like to recognize on my left, the Senator from Kansas, Senator Roberts, if he has any opening statement or—— Senator ROBERTS. No, sir, I think we ought to expedite the process. Thank you. We have two excellent nominees.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, we do. We have two excellent nominees.

Senator Dayton.

Senator DAYTON. I second the sentiments.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Well, Dr. Jen, welcome to the committee. Congratulations on

your selection, and the floor is yours. Please proceed as you so desire.

STATEMENT OF JOSEPH JWU-SHAN JEN, OF CALIFORNIA, TO

BE UNDERSECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE FOR RESEARCH,

EDUCATION AND ECONOMICS.

Mr. JEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I also please ask the

record to show that my sister, Jennice Sih is also here?

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I am sorry, I missed her.

Mr. JEN. She is here from Pennsylvania.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, we welcome you. Thank you very much for

being here. Thank you.

Mr. JEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and distinguished members

of the committee. I am honored to appear before you this morning.

I am grateful to President Bush and Secretary Ann Veneman for

nominating me for the Undersecretary of Agriculture position. I

was born in mainland China and grew up in Taiwan. I came to this

country as a graduate student. When my wife, Salina, and I were

married, we had a total of $48 to start our family.

Only in the United States can someone like me be given the

chance to serve this country in this capacity. If you choose to confirm me, I pledge to you that I will do my very best to serve this

country. My professional career involved serving at three land

grant institutions: Clemson, Michigan State and the University of

Georgia; one private enterprise, the Campbell Soup Company; and

then, the largest non-land grant agriculture program at Cal Poly.

My areas of research expertise are in the post-harvest handling

of fresh fruits and vegetables, food texture and biotechnology. I am

active in the scientific professional society and have served on the

California State Board of Food and Agriculture since 1997.

If confirmed, my biggest challenge of the office is the diverse responsibilities of the REE mission areas and the balance among the

three elements carried in its name. I feel that I know the three elements of research, education and economics well, and my 20 years

of experience in administration have prepared me to carry out the

3

management of REE. My philosophy has always been to focus on

selective strategic issues and to do a test very well or not do it at

all.

Agricultural research and education are key to building a knowledge reservoir and transfer of applied technology. Economic and

statistical analysis provide the data base and background information essential for key policy decisions. With the growing global competition in agriculture and consumer demand for instant knowledge, the REE mission area is faced with critical choices in performing many important tasks with a limited budget. If confirmed,

I look forward to working with members of this committee on

prioritizing the many tasks and challenges facing REE.

Thank you again for this opportunity to consider me for this

highly honored position.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Jen can be found in the appendix

on page 22.]

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Jen, thank you very much for all that you

have done in agriculture. As a first-generation American myself, I

am glad you are here, and I am glad you are coming into this position. We need your expertise and your background vitally, at this

important point where we are especially as it relates to plant and

animal genomics. USDA participates in various efforts, but in my

own personal view, it has yet to provide any true leadership for the

plant, animal and microbial communities by investing in genomics

research at a level that reflects the true value of agriculturally important organisms from economic, scientific and biomedical standpoints.

USDA’s support for plant genomics is a pittance compared to the

National Science Foundation, and funding is virtually nonexistent

for genomics research in animals, plant pathogens and animal

pathogens. I believe it is time for the USDA to step up to the plate

and ensure that agriculture participates fully in the genomics revolution by providing significant funding for genomics research at the

ARS and at the cooperative state research, education and extension

services.

If I might ask as a general question what steps you might envision taking to elevate USDA’s role and commitment in plant, animal and microbial genomics.

Mr. JEN. Well, Chairman, you touched an area I did have a little

bit of expertise in myself.

The CHAIRMAN. That is why I asked it.

[Laughter.]

Mr. JEN. In that I have felt for many years that the research in

USDA in this area has not been emphasized and actually opened

the door for some of the private companies to forge ahead on some

of the research in this. In fact, I think, like the roundup soybean:

if it was discovered by the scientists from Iowa State University,

I think it would have a lot more credibility than its being discovered now by Monsanto Company. I think it is an example that

sometimes, we need to put funding in the long-term research, because 10 or 20 years ago, biotechnology research was not emphasized, and there was not the good planning of probably looking into

the future.

4

I think what I would like to do is that hopefully, with my experience, we can do a little bit of catch-up in the next few years.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I sure hope so. I serve on another committee that has been involved in the Human Genome Project at NIH

beginning back in 1992. We have made great progress there, but

there is a whole new realm of knowledge to be gained from plant

genomics and animal genomics which we just have not really

pushed ahead on. I hope that we can now get the Department of

Agriculture moving more aggressively in that area, so I welcome

your interest, and I know your background in that area, and that

is why I wanted to ask the question.

One last thing I wanted to ask before I turn to Senator Roberts,

is regarding sustainable agriculture research. Agriculture research,

again, is vital not just in ensuring the continuation of production

but also the quality of life in our rural communities and the health

of our environment. How do you envision your position focusing on

research programs that will both sustain our environment and

rural communities at the same time?

Mr. JEN. Senator, I am at Cal Poly right now. I am the dean of

Cal Poly. We have a branch campus, about 3,000 acres, north of

Santa Cruz near the coast. It is a piece of land that has more endangered species than any other parcel in California. We have students there, and we practice a number of the sustainable agriculture practices: holistic management of grazing, organic farming,

trying to preserve the wetlands, and we are studying both the pros

and the cons, the advantages and disadvantages of sustainable agriculture.

It is actually my firm belief that production agriculture and environment not only can peacefully coexist, but they can actually enhance each other if it is practiced right. Actually, it is one of my

dreams that I want to make that branch campus the model of how

sustainable agriculture can be taught and trained.

The CHAIRMAN. I might ask one other question before I turn to

Senator Lugar, who has joined us. What perspective does your

background in food technology provide you regarding food safety,

and is it your intention to make food safety a high priority?

Mr. JEN. Food safety, absolutely, is a very high priority, because

it is the consumer’s health at risk and my private industry background does take that into consideration, because I think all of the

reputable food processors in this country actually, want to produce

food with almost zero risk for food safety. The unfortunate thing

is that there is no such thing as zero risk on anything, but it is

very close.

We do have the safest food in the world right now or in human

history even right now, but, we should continue to improve as

much as possible in that area.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Dr. Jen.

The CHAIRMAN. Before we turn to other Senators, we now have

our former distinguished Chairman of this Committee and now our

Ranking Member, my good friend, Senator Dick Lugar, and I will

turn to Senator Lugar for an opening statement and for an introduction. Then, I know the Congressmen also have timetables they

have to meet, and so, after yours, I will turn to the two Congressmen for their introductions at that time.

5

STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD LUGAR, A U.S. SENATOR FROM

INDIANA.

Senator LUGAR. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I had an

opportunity to visit with Dr. Jen earlier this week, and just for the

sake of the record, the FBI reports were made known to you and

to me. I examined those carefully for both of the nominees and

found them completely in order. I just wanted to make that comment for the benefit of the record. I appreciate very much your

coming this morning, Dr. Jen. I strongly support your nomination.

Mr. JEN. Thank you, sir.

Senator LUGAR. It is a special privilege to introduce this morning

a fellow Hoosier, Jim Moseley. He has been nominated by the

President to serve as Deputy Secretary of Agriculture. Jim has extensive experience as an Indiana livestock and grain farmer. His

extensive business skills and leadership abilities have been acknowledged in a variety of ways nationally as well as in the Hoosier State, including the Indiana Master Farmer Award; the Indiana Outstanding Young Farmer designation; and his being named

as National Outstanding Young Farmer of America.

He started his farming career with the help of the Department

of Agriculture, with loans through what was then called the Farmers Home Administration. Jim Moseley is an example of how the

Federal Government can constructively help beginning farmers get

a start in agriculture and, through hard work, achieve success. In

addition to his farm perspective, Jim is a Washington veteran, having served as agricultural advisor to the EPA administrator and as

Assistant Secretary of Agriculture for Natural Resources under

former President George Bush.

Due to his previous Washington experience and his Midwestern

agricultural background, he has a keen sense of what areas are

functioning well at the department as well as those areas needing

immediate attention, such as the Office of Civil Rights and the

Food Safety and Inspection Service. Jim is dedicated to an improved departmental operation, providing more efficient service to

its customers and keeping in mind benefits to taxpayers as a

whole.

He is a Purdue University graduate with a bachelor of science

degree in horticulture. He has actively participated in several organizations, including the Indiana Nature Conservancy; the Outstanding Farmers of America; and the Farm Foundation. It is a delight to have in the committee room today Jim’s wife Cathy, who

has been an active partner in that farming enterprise. I believe

that Cathy and Kyle, their son, are with us today, and I would ask

that they stand so that they can be recognized, too. We are delighted that you are here.

I thank Mr. Chairman for allowing me to make this introduction

at this point, and it is also a great pleasure to have our colleagues,

Congressman Buyer and Congressman Kerns, here whom I know

will want to commend our nominee.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Lugar, and I will

turn now to the two Congressmen. I do not know who is senior, but

Congressman Buyer was here first.

[Laughter.]

The CHAIRMAN. I will recognize Congressman Buyer.

6

STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE BUYER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN

CONGRESS FROM INDIANA.

Mr. BUYER. I am always interested in the standards that you

hold here on the other side.

[Laughter.]

Mr. BUYER. I will not be redundant, Mr. Chairman, to the comments made by Senator Lugar. I am not here because the nominee

lives in my new Fourth Congressional District of Indiana. I am

here because I stand with my friends. I have known the Moseley

and the Maple families in Indiana, and both Jim and his wife

Cathy come from good families, and they have worked hard to enhance the reputations of good names. I think Senator Lugar was

very accurate when he said that these are two individuals who

started out with nothing, just as Dr. Jen in his testimony started

with $48 in his pocket, Jim and his wife did not start with a net

worth; they started with a net debt, like many who start in agriculture, and they have been very successful in their hog operations,

their grain and their feed. I would say that they both are representative of Hoosier pride, and they have raised seven children,

and so, I believe that he is truly representative of the family farm.

I also would say that he understands what it means to be a good

steward of the land. I would say that he also has an environmental

conscience. He has a conservation awareness. He has personally

felt the toils of hog operations and how difficult that has been over

the years with its gyrations. Is that accurate?

[Laughter.]

Mr. BUYER. Very high peaks and very low valleys. He also understands the challenges that the farmer faces. This is an individual

of whom—this is an individual who has actually lived and operated

on the farm, so he knows what it means to get the dirt under the

fingernails, and he knows how difficult the challenges are that the

family farmer faces today.

When you have the opportunity to have an individual who will

help lead agricultural interests in this country, it is someone who

has been there; who is there right now, and it is someone to whom

the farmer can personally relate. Also, Senator Lugar commented

that he has a past history in his dealings here in Washington.

Well, I think that can be very helpful in his present leadership

post.

You also, Mr. Chairman, in your questions to Dr. Jen, you used

the words sustained ag research, and Mr. Moseley, in his associations with Purdue University, he understands the importance of

sustained ag research and how that benefits our society. I stand

here with my friend, and I believe he represents the best America

has to offer to help lead our agricultural interests.

I yield back my time.

The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Buyer, thank you very much. That

is a very fine tribute.

The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Brian Kerns, welcome.

STATEMENT OF HON. BRIAN KERNS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN

CONGRESS FROM INDIANA.

Mr. KERNS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, fellow

Hoosier.

7

I, too, join with the Indiana delegation represented in recommending Mr. Moseley for his appointment position today. I represent Mr. Moseley in Congress, and, of course, Tippecanoe County,

Purdue University, all important to me and near and dear to my

heart. My wife is a graduate of Purdue University, and I know Senator Lugar has actively been involved in helping the university and

agriculture in Indiana and across the nation, and I just thank Mr.

Moseley and his family, because those of us involved in government

know that it does involve your entire family when you take an important position like this.

I think he will serve the President well. Indiana and Tippecanoe

County are involved with the Farm Progress show this year, so the

Nation will be watching very closely the home area in Tippecanoe

County, and we will be very proud as Hoosiers to have him as a

member of the President’s team and working with all of you and

all of us on the House side with the committees as we move forward on the many difficult issues facing agriculture today.

My family and I also live on a small farm in Indiana, much

smaller than Mr. Moseley’s, but I can tell you I appreciate the sacrifice that he and his family have made over the years to build an

operation and to set a standard for the community of excellent

quality products, and, as we work to expand exports across to other

lands and other countries, I think Jim is most qualified and can

bring a real hands-on approach to some of the important issues we

face in the Congress.

I want to thank the committee, the chairman and the ranking

member for allowing me to recommend and support our fellow Hoosier today, and it is a great honor to be with you. Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Kerns, thank you again for your

very fine tribute.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Moseley, we welcome you back. Of course,

we are familiar with your previous tenure here in Washington. I

congratulate you for that. You did a great job as an advisor at EPA

and also as the Assistant Secretary for Natural Resources in the

previous administration. I think both of these will serve you well

in your new position as Deputy Secretary.

I might add that by listening to Congressman Buyer, Congressman Kerns and Senator Lugar, it sounds like the only tribulation

as a family farmer that you have not gone through is milking cows.

Is that right?

[Laughter.]

The CHAIRMAN. Now, that indicates to me you are a real smart

guy.

[Laughter.]

Mr. MOSELEY. Sir, I do not do dairy.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not do dairy! You are a smart guy!

Well, Mr. Moseley, welcome back. I know the Congressmen have

tough schedules. You may stay if you like, or if your schedules compel you to leave, you may be excused at any point you want. I

would turn now to Mr. Moseley for his statement.

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STATEMENT OF JAMES R. MOSELEY, OF INDIANA, TO BE

DEPUTY SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.

Mr. MOSELEY. Thank you, Senator.

Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator Lugar,

Congressman Buyer and Congressman Kerns. I really appreciate

your kind words and the other members of this committee as well.

It is a pleasure to be here and an honor to appear before this committee. In awaiting this moment, I have had some time to reflect

on the magnitude of the task before me. Those thoughts and an explanation of the attributes that I will bring to this position if confirmed as the Deputy Secretary are contained in my formal statement that, with your permission, sir, I will submit for the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection.

Mr. MOSELEY. Despite an attempt at brevity here, I want to state

clearly how honored I am to have been asked by President Bush

and Secretary Veneman to serve the Department of Agriculture. I

have been fortunate enough to experience a stint at USDA about

11 years ago, and that period when I served as Assistant Secretary

of Agriculture for Natural Resources Environment was a proving

ground for the more complex job of Deputy Secretary.

That position included managing the Forest Service, USDA’s

largest agency, and that gave me a tremendous opportunity to

work with some very difficult public policy issues in a significant

way. Just as important is my experience managing my farm, which

is now a large, diversified crop and livestock operation in Indiana.

I grew up on a farm in Indiana and was fortunate enough to start

with Cathy my own farming operation about 31 years ago with

help from Farmers Home Administration. It was necessary to have

that help, because we started with no equity other than our college

educations.

My wife, Cathy is with me today, and I endured the economic

growing pains of turning a modest, 250-acre rented operation into

a small business vital enough to support several employees and

partners plus our seven children.

On the personal side of farming, I know the pleasure of walking

through the hog barn at night, watching the baby pigs lined up

along their mom’s belly nursing. It is still a special moment, no

matter when you do it. I understand the feeling of accomplishment

that comes from looking out over a field of corn in the early morning light and seeing it change day-by-day. There is a satisfaction

in that that few other experiences provide.

Unfortunately, though, I also know the difficulties of making

ends meet when production costs rise or commodity prices drop unexpectedly. We survived the hog crisis three years ago, but I know

too many producers who did not, and I still feel the pain. Still, I

count on the sum total of my experiences to help me connect with

the producers that the Department, by our stated mission, has the

responsibility to represent.

I also know that without the assurances that the Department

provides in important areas of food safety and the environment

that the consumers here and abroad will not have the confidence

to trust what our farmers produce. We must be vigilant in our pursuit of credible ways to maintain that trust.

9

We also have the need to accomplish this with dignity and respect for everyone involved. The Department must honor all people

and right any wrong that may have been committed in our past.

I pledge my commitment to this committee and to all the Members

of Congress to do the best job that I have the energy to accomplish.

For me, life is about honor, integrity and commitment. Because I

have more questions than answers right now, all I can do is pledge

to you to continue to live those values. They have served Cathy and

I well, and we would expect them to continue to do so.

To make progress, we must agree on the right course for American agriculture. In that regard, I look forward to working with

each one of you to serve the needs of those who depend upon us

to help them. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to

appear before you today. It truly is an honor, and I would be happy

to answer your questions.

[The prepared statment of Mr. Moseley can be found in the appendix on page 24.]

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Moseley, thank you very much for your eloquent statement and for your excellent written statement, which I

read the other evening. I again want to personally thank you for

your willingness to come back to Washington and to serve in what

Abraham Lincoln called the people’s Department, Agriculture, and

I know you will do an outstanding job as our deputy there.

I just have a couple of short questions before I turn to Senator

Lugar. Several of the articles you submitted in your packet which

I read indicate, that you have a very strong interest in conservation. There is a lot of talk that this new Farm bill coming up is

going to be strongly conservation-oriented. Personally, I hope so.

Senator Smith and I and several others on this side and some on

the other side have introduced a conservation bill which has been

dubbed the Conservation Security Act.

I hope that you would take a look at that, and please give us any

advice, suggestions, observations, you have on what needs to be

done with that bill or any other observations you have on how we

can both enhance farm income and, at the same time, provide help

for farmers who are practicing good conservation methods. My view

has been that in the past, so many farmers have been using their

time, their equipment, sometimes their own money to be good stewards, and they are not getting much reward for it. However, if they

take land out of production for CRP or WRP or something like that,

then, they can get paid for it.

It seems to me that we need to bridge that and get to the point

where we are actually providing help and support for farmers who

are indeed being good stewards of the land, and that is sort of the

basis of that bill.

You do not need to respond. I am just asking to please take a

look at it. I am open for any suggestions or advice that you might

have for us, and if you have any general comments on conservation

itself.

Mr. MOSELEY. Well, Chairman, obviously, conservation has been

something that has been a part of my life since I was a little child,

because I remember going with my grandfather and planting trees

and going fishing with him on the farm pond that he established,

and we have continued that tradition. My background is that we

10

have to have conservation on every piece of agricultural land, working lands as well as those lands that might be set aside for wildlife

habitat or whatever purpose. I am going to be delighted to spend

some time working with you, because this is something that is very

important to me.

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate that very much.

Second, it is my understanding you have adopted some innovative technologies to handle the manure from your hog operations.

Again, this has bedeviled a lot of us in many parts of the country

where we have had more and more concentration of livestock operations, particularly hog breeding operations, and we are having a

problem in terms of addressing the manure issue. I hope that we

can address this in the next Farm bill, and again, since you have

been there and done it, I would appreciate any suggestions and advice you have on how we can help farmers, who are producing hogs

to be able to handle the manure problem that they have.

It is funny. I am like you. When I was a kid, we never referred

to it as waste. This is a valuable resource that everyone used, and

we used it as fertilizer, and I think we have to get back to that.

We have to think of economical ways of doing that. Any suggestions you have on that, I would appreciate.

Mr. MOSELEY. You are absolutely right, Chairman. It is not a

waste. There was a period of time I think we went through, and

we considered it to be so. That is not the case. It is a valuable resource that needs to be used. We have looked at that in our operation as we have grown over the years, and we have looked at it

as a resource that we could use, and we have tried to develop some

new and innovative technologies to make it easier to handle it and

make sure that we do it in an environmentally responsible and sensitive way.

When those discussions come up, I will share whatever little bit

of expertise I may have been able to accumulate to this point.

The CHAIRMAN. Which is considerable. Thank you very much,

Mr. Moseley.

Mr. MOSELEY. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Lugar.

Senator LUGAR. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I

share the Chairman’s enthusiasm for the conservation work that I

am certain will be a part of our committee’s efforts in the Farm

bill, and I want to recognize again, as he has, your leadership in

this area, your prior service in Washington as well as on the farm

in Indiana.

I would just note for the record that in 1985, 97 cents of every

financial assistance dollar for conservation was put on conservation

on working lands, and only 3 percent went to land retirement in

1985. Now, today, only 15 percent goes to the working land conservation part of this and 85 percent to land retirement. I make

that point because clearly, this is going to be an issue before the

committee, and certainly, Senator Harkin and others as they have

tried to address this legislation recognize that.

I want to make a point that also, after our hearing on conservation early this year, conservation people in Indiana came to me and

revealed that every acre in Indiana is now covered by extensive

maps. For instance, on my farm, they could identify acre-by-acre

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the soil types. They could even make an estimate in a normal year

with normal rainfall what the yield would be for corn and for soybeans. There is an extraordinary amount of information available.

Now, on top of that, then, they also have some suggestions for

what we ought to do to enhance the value of that land and, perhaps even more importantly, the cleanliness of the water in terms

of the runoff and various other things that will be important in the

stewardship of that land. I simply make this point because I know

that you share an enthusiasm for the EQIP program and for others

that we have adopted, and maybe you have some ideas in the future. Do you have any at this point that you want to reveal to us,

or can you give us some landscape of what kind of leadership you

may offer in the conservation area?

Mr. MOSELEY. Well, in light of the need for brevity, I will not go

into a long diatribe as to all of the things. Senator, this is a very

large area of concern, and there are many things that we can do.

It is putting in place the right incentives; making sure that we

have the resources available. Literally, I could sit here for an hour,

which you do not want me to do, and talk about this.

The key thing is that the Department does need to provide leadership. We have some tremendous opportunities. The new GIS

technology that I think that the folks from Indiana were alluding

to is very significant in terms of helping us to give some sense and

idea of where these resources are at and how we can best utilize

them so that we do not end up with rivers and streams that have

contamination.

The whole issue of soil quality is something that I think we will

see emerge in the debate as we move forward here, and if we enhance soil quality, we enhance water quality. There is a broad

array of issues that we need to address, and what I would like to

do is pledge to you that I will be a leader within the Department

to try and accomplish those things and be in discussion and debate

with the Members of this Congress, and we will work on it.

Senator LUGAR. Well, I thank you for that response and likewise,

your desire for brevity. I am hopeful that after your confirmation

that swiftly, that leadership that you have mentioned will be forthcoming; in other words, that you will make recommendations, or

you and the Secretary together or however you want to manage

your testimony or your information, to all of us, because the timeframe is such in which if you have important ideas, they really

need to be made known——

Mr. MOSELEY. Yes.

Senator LUGAR [continuing]. Rapidly, and I think the Chairman

that would share that thought: if we are to begin forming a conservation title of the Farm bill, why, the grist for the mill needs

to become swiftly.

I would just ask one question of Dr. Jen, and that is from our

conversation earlier this week, I know of your leadership in the research area your enthusiasm for this, but I would just take the opportunity to say this committee has tried to authorize cutting-edge

research, merit-based, anyone in the country could apply, really,

that has extraordinary ideas. Unhappily, all that we have authorized, $120 million a year for

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ed out the cutting-edge part of it, and we did not have that benefit.

Now, the third year, to his credit, Secretary Glickman found ways

in which the Department of Agriculture could revive the idea, so

$120 million of extraordinary research projects occurred last year

in the country, and I hope that may occur again.

Likewise, in our biomass quest, and this is so important, because

everyone talks a good game about agriculture and energy, but the

amount of follow-through has been, if not negligible, disappointing.

I am hopeful that your enthusiasm in both of these areas will likewise manifest itself in suggestions to us either for legislative enactment or what you and the Secretary can do administratively. We

need to move the ball ahead, because there is fertile ground, I

think, with legislation on the books, but if we need to tweak the

system, this is the time, and your comments and suggestions would

be very helpful in a short period of time.

Do you have any further comment this morning?

Mr. JEN. Senator Lugar, thank you very much. I think like you

said, like you and I discussed briefly, the competitive grant programs it is one of the forms of funding mechanisms that can probably bring the best research return with the least amount of investment. Not only that, it can also have the chance of having more

team kind of approach, that multi-disciplinary type of approach

than a set formula way of doing things and things like that.

That does not mean that, formula funding is not good, because

I think it is absolutely needed for just a base program as well. I

think if any new idea of research and the cutting-edge type of research is launched, I think the competitive grant program should

be the way to go.

Senator LUGAR. Thank you very much.

Mr. JEN. I really thank you for that question.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Lugar.

Senator Dayton.

Senator DAYTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Moseley, looking at your reports over the last several years,

your own farming operations are almost a microcosm of American

agriculture in that the extent of your participation totally appropriately and probably necessarily in the Government programs

both in terms of dollars as well as the number of programs underscores my experience with Minnesota farmers as well, that they are

more and more dependent financially on the Government payments

rather than market prices, and the number of programs they are

participating; it just seems as though to be a successful farmer

these days, you have to be farming to fit into the Government program niches rather than into market-based agriculture.

Do you have any thoughts at the macro level on how, especially

with this new Farm bill, we might address that?

Mr. MOSELEY. Well, I certainly have had a lot of experience in

this as you have been able to detect. We have participated in price

support programs for as long as they have been available.

Senator DAYTON. Sure.

Mr. MOSELEY. It became a competitive issue, really. I can recall

back several years ago; in fact, I believe that Senator Lugar, the

last time I was before this committee, questioned me about this.

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ing, and we had not participated for a couple of years, and we did

not participate in a program, we literally could not retain our asset

base. We could not retain the land that we had been farming. We

were not competitive. Other people could take the Government program support, and they could literally bid more for that resource

than what we could.

It was essential at that point in time. I think what you are pointing out here is that there are cycles in agriculture, and there are

those up times that we feel very good, and then, there are those

down times for whatever reason. It may be prices; it may be

drought; it may be a broad national disaster; it may be a very regional, localized. There are those times when farmers need some

help, and I understand that.

Now, for us to bring forward the right policy and figure out when

we need to apply it and how we need to apply it I think is something that this body, as well as the Department of Agriculture,

needs to be fully engaged in in the debate and the discussion. I do

not have a specific set of recommendations for you today about how

to do that, but I will tell you that with the experience and the

background that I have, I can certainly be fully engaged within the

Department in terms of when a policy recommendation might come

forward I can evaluate: will that work at the farm level? Will that

really help farmers?

Senator DAYTON. Do you consider current market prices for basic

agricultural commodities to be too low? If so, do you have any recommendations or a sense of a direction that we need to go in to

boost those market prices?

Mr. MOSELEY. The current market price for any farmer is always

too low.

[Laughter.]

Senator DAYTON. Well-said.

Mr. MOSELEY. Now, that is just reality speaking. Very few of us

go to the coffee shop and talk about how wonderful the prices are.

Obviously, we have gone through a very distressed time both in the

crops and the livestock, and we have some major challenges here.

We have trade issues that if we could open up this trade, it would

make a significant difference for the agricultural economy in this

country.

We have issues there that need to be addressed, but in the meantime, and there are opportunities for any size of farm to do better,

to move further up the food chain in terms of the value added that

they are putting into their products. We are not going to have all

of our answers come from trade, and we are not going to have all

of those answers addressed immediately, and I think there is a

need for us to continue to work at making sure that there is a safety net for farmers. What that is right now, I am not going to give

you an idea, because I have questions as well.

I will be happy to work with you, and we will try to figure it out.

Senator DAYTON. Thank you.

Dr. Jen, I would just like to go back for a brief time here to the

Chairman’s comment about feed lot operations, because we have a

horrific problem in parts of Minnesota with, now, the scale of livestock production and these legumes and the effects they have on

their neighboring farmers and neighboring communities, and I

14

guess—and I may not be fully aware of everything going on, but

it seems to me that the USDA’s research involvement in this area,

at least the dissemination of that information, has been just minuscule relative to the scope of the problem, and do you have any

thoughts going in on how the USDA could both make that research

more applicable to current conditions and also disseminate that information more effectively?

Mr. JEN. Senator, I could not speak about the dissemination of

the report and things like that, and if you want, if you choose to

confirm me, I can look into it and report back to you on why it was

not being done.

As far as the biomass, that is a research area that is very multidisciplinarily oriented. It needs engineers and other people besides

just agricultural scientists to be able to get it done. It is kind of

like we had a little project at Cal Poly where the dairy manures

in the legumes are being covered with engineers’ help, trying to

harvest the energy and heat the waters for the dairy barn to use,

and that is kind of like the biomass is being turned into an valuable thing.

At the same time, it also takes out the odors for the dairy farmers. It is still in the experimental stage, but certainly, these are the

types of research projects, but they cannot be done just by the animal science people or the dairy science people. We brought in, really, the engineers, the ag engineers and the mechanical engineers

and other people; the flavor chemists from food science in a team

approach, and I think that latches on a little bit of one of my answers to Senator Lugar: to me, today’s research has to be approached by a team. No longer is a single scientist doing a single

discipline to solve a problem. The problem is multi-faceted and

needs a team approach for that.

Senator DAYTON. Thank you, Dr. Jen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Dayton.

Senator Roberts.

Senator ROBERTS. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am struck by the caliber of our nominees and the tenor of this

morning’s hearing. I think this has been a class act hearing. I

think that any farmer and rancher—well, yes, we do have TV; I

apologize—but I think any farmer or rancher who would read the

testimony here and hear the responses of our two nominees would

feel pretty darn good that we are going to have very capable hands

down at the Department.

Kika de la Garza, who is the chairman emeritus of the sometimes powerful House Ag Committee—— [Laughter.]

Senator ROBERTS [continuing]. Used to say in agriculture, there

is a special feeling, a special commitment. You have to feel the

ground; have to feel the earth. We, at that time, on the minority

side used to listen to those speeches quite often, as my colleagues

will testify. He was really making a point, and I think both of the

nominees certainly have that feeling. I am struck by the only in

America stories of both nominees: 48 bucks and then starting out

with the beginning farmer program. I remember in 1980, when I

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culture today is where is the next generation of farmers going to

come from? Jim, you are an outstanding example of that, you and

your family.

Now, for both of the nominees, return with me now to the notso-thrilling days of the ALAR scare with apples, and you could

apply that to any of the food safety concerns that we have in today’s world, whether it is E. coli or whether it is hoof and mouth,

or whether it is salmonella or whatever is happening, and I remember Dick Ling talking about this, and I remember Ed Madigan, our dear friend and colleague, and his efforts down at the Department with Ann Veneman and yourself, Jim, to put together

some kind of an immediate response team with FDA, EPA and

USDA so that when we have a food safety concern—scare is a better word—and we have people on television who are saying very

alarmist things, and I understand that, because in terms of food

safety, you have to err on the side of the public and public safety.

It seemed to us that we could have more of a response team

where you used the land grant schools and people like Dr. Jen;

state departments of health and environment and agriculture. I

have been talking to Ann about that—pardon me, Secretary

Veneman—about putting together again a response team to, a, set

the record straight; basically inform the public of what is going on;

and, more importantly, what we are doing about it.

We just had a situation, in Texas and perhaps in Oklahoma, I

hope not, in regards to karnal bunt. We have just had the Star

Link situation. You know about hoof and mouth. I would hope that

we could work on putting together an immediate response team to

calm the public; get the sound science facts out; and demonstrate

to the public about what we are doing. I think it would really help.

Would you like to make a comment on that regard?

Mr. MOSELEY. Senator Roberts, I do remember ALAR. It seems

like controversy precedes me and hopefully does not follow me, but

I had just been appointed at EPA when the ALAR issue broke, and

I know that there was a lot of concern about the issue, but there

was probably more concern in this body and from the agriculture

community out there about the way in which we responded to it.

I think we have learned a little bit. I think we are better today

than we were then. Are we good enough? Probably not.

I hear your admonition. We need to be immediate insofar as we

can be, immediate in our response, because many times, these

issues are emotionalized before we have an opportunity to get out

in front of them, and we will work with EPA and FDA and any

other Federal agency that may need to be brought to the table to

try to accomplish the objective.

I hear your admonition, and it is one that is very real and I know

heartfelt, and I feel the same.

Senator ROBERTS. Dr. Jen, would you like to add anything, sir?

Mr. JEN. Thank you, Senator Roberts.

In my profession ,it is food processing. I attend the Institute of

Food Technologists. That profession is interesting in that they have

science communicators assigned, the university people expertise assigned, in every single state that connected to the media. Whenever

there are certain questions related with food processing and the

16

food safety part of it is involved, they gave the media that person

who has expertise to respond in that.

It has worked reasonably well. I think, if we can expand that

into all of the disciplines within agriculture, we might be able to

develop a quick response team. That is another different way of

doing it.

Senator ROBERTS. I think that aspect is very important. I know,

Tom, you are a member of the Council of Agriculture Science and

Technology that is a very important group, and at least 10 years

ago, they were very influential and hope they can be again.

I know my time has expired. I just want to make one other point.

We held a hearing, a bipartisan hearing, several months ago in the

Armed Services Committee, in the Emerging Threats Subcommittee, and we had appropriators there; we had the Intelligence Committee there; it was a very widespread hearing, and it was in regard to homeland security, and we brought up the issue, and Secretary Veneman testified along with 46 other Federal agencies all

involved in homeland security. The subject was agroterrorism and

the possibility that some state-sponsored outfit or some non-statesupported group or any group of wackos that wanted to get after

our nation’s food supply and what the status of that was, and

where was the Department of Agriculture in regards to immediate

response or hopefully to detect and deter and then, in the consequence, management?

I am very concerned that we are not there. The FBI tells us that

this is very, very high risk. The probability used to be low. Now,

that probability is working up.

I just sort of lay that out there. It is something that we do not

talk about much in the USDA, but, I mean, the nation’s food supply and the kind of chaos that would occur if, in fact, we have a

major infestation is a very serious thing. I do not ask you to respond. I just wanted to indicate my concern.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Roberts.

Senator Allard.

Senator ALLARD. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

I would just emphasize to both nominees that I concur with the

comments made by my colleagues on the committee. I am impressed with your qualifications and the experience that you bring

to the USDA. I wish more people had your qualifications and

experience—— Mr. MOSELEY. Thank you.

Senator ALLARD [continuing]. Who oversee many of the programs

that affect agriculture.

I come from a unique part of the country where you cannot rely

on nature itself to provide a favorable environment for farming. We

have to do things in my part of the country to enhance the soil and

to provide water for farmers. There are agricultural irrigated enterprises in the State of Colorado, and anybody who is in agriculture

does some irrigation to one degree or another, or, if they do not,

they have a very limited dry land farm situation.

Part of the ability for them to survive is good science. It needs

to be further developed not only for the production side, but for the

regulators as well. Regulators need to have good science so that

17

when they are making the calls, they are based on good, sound fact

and not something that has been conjured up. I also want to emphasize how important I think education is, not only to the farmer,

but to the public. All of this relates to food safety issues.

In Colorado, we also have water issues. Sometimes nitrogen will

build up in the flowing stream. We can bring the water out; for use

in irrigation. If we know how much nitrogen is already in the

water, it may limit the amount of fertilizer that the farmer has to

put in. Then, it may be returned to the stream in better condition

than when it came out.

I hope that in your review of some of the policies in the Department of Agriculture that you would be very cognizant of how important water is in semi-arid climates like the State of Colorado.

At times, we have agencies who feel like they want to take that

from the farmer, and they have an adverse impact on that farmer.

It puts him out of business.

I do not know whether you have given that any thought, but I

hope that you will keep that in mind during your deliberations. Mr.

Moseley, maybe you would like to respond to my education comments and perhaps both of you would like to respond to the good

science aspects I have mentioned.

Mr. MOSELEY. Well, you have given me a long list of things that

I could respond to, but it is obvious that in terms of the irrigation

issues in the West, they are exceedingly important to agriculture.

I have a number of friends of mine in the Western states, California specifically, but they are not in agriculture unless they have irrigation. I understand the difficulty and complexity of that issue.

It is not easy. Water rights are a fundamental part of the West,

and I certainly sense that.

We, in our part of the world, why, we have the problem of getting

rid of water. You shared something with me today that I was not

aware of, and that just goes to show that we can learn something

every day, that you can use the water, take the nitrogen out, put

it back in the stream, and it is better. I was not aware of that.

That is what technology, that is what scientific searching, does for

us. Then, once we are able to accomplish that, we educate people.

You have done that with me today, and that is the kind of activity that we are about, one of the important activities of the Department of Agriculture. I know that is Dr. Jen’s area, but I am beginning to develop a very good relationship with Dr. Jen, though we

have not known one another very long. It has just come together

very quickly. I have a tremendous amount of confidence that with

he and I both working together, we are going to be able to forward

the need of farmers and consumers in this country with respect to

research and education.

Mr. JEN. Senator, I would like to probably address very briefly

about education of the general public. I think you struck another

chord that I feel very strongly about; that is, I feel that agriculture,

the field in general, including academia and the Federal Government and all that, we have done a pretty good job of informing ourselves, but we have not done as good a job of informing the general

public.

I had an interesting experience when I got to Cal Poly a few

years ago. I was interested, and I said do we have a Department

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of Ag Communication, and the answer was no. We do have a group

of students who are interested in that, so I put together a program

that combined journalism and agriculture together in ag communication, in order, in other words, for them to be able to tell not

only the farmer but tell the general public the knowledge.

The sad thing to me, Senator, is that they have an agriculture

communication national committee or national association, and we

send our students that never had a major in ag communication to

compete. There are 15 categories. They come back and tell me that,

Dr. Jen, we are the second-best in the nation.

I feel it is very sad, because the fact is I do not even have a

major. Our students did not even train in it. I just put a quick fix

of get some journalism faculty to teach our agriculture kids how to

read and how to write to the general public, and they are already

the second-best in the nation.

I see a tremendous need of the ag education field and that it is

in my shop in USDA. You can be sure that I will look into it and

see if we can strengthen that part of it.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see my time is already expired. It seems like when it is your time, that red light

turns on so quickly.

[Laughter.]

Senator ALLARD. There are many other areas I would like to

cover, but I want to personally thank these nominees for their dedication to public service and I look forward to working with them.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Allard.

Senator Crapo.

Senator CRAPO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. In the interests of time, I will not ask any questions, so you can relax. I do

want to associate myself with the comments that Senator Allard

made about the water issue in the West. I represent Idaho, and we

are having a drought there this year, and we have tremendous

competing needs for water. In fact, if you think about it, most of

our civilization lives around water for a lot of reasons. It is the core

of our drinking water for municipal and industrial development. In

the West, we rely on a lot of our systems for flood control. It is

recreation; it is our environment; it is irrigation; it is power production. I think there are very few aspects of most of our lives that

are not dramatically impacted by water management, and agriculture is central to that, particularly in my state. I do want to

focus on those issues with you in the future.

I would simply conclude my comments by thanking both of you

for being willing to serve. We know what it takes for a person these

days to be willing to step up and say yes when the President asks

for you to come forward and serve or when the Secretary of Agriculture asks for you to come forward and serve, and I just want you

to know that we are aware of the tremendous sacrifices that you

have made and are making, and we appreciate men of your caliber

being willing to come forward and help our country in these times.

Mr. MOSELEY. Thank you.

Mr. JEN. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Crapo.

Again, I want to echo the sentiments of my colleagues here in

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ice, and the sacrifices you are making to assume these positions.

This committee will, as soon as we can get a quorum, move expeditiously on these nominations.

If there is nothing more to add, I will excuse the witnesses, and

we will move to the second phase of our hearing this morning on

feed grains and oil seeds. Thank you both very much.

Mr. MOSELEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. JEN. Thank you.

[Whereupon, at 9:40 a.m., the committee adjourned.]

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