### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 1

DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY MANUFACTURED HOUSING WORKING GROUP Monday, August 4, 2014 9:04 a.m.

Department of Energy 1000 Independence Avenue SW Forrestal Building Washington, DC 20285

Reported by: Natalia Thomas Capital Reporting Company

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 Ei leen Hoffman Javier Ramirez 4 Jo seph Hagerman Mark Ezzo 5 Ro bert Luter, II Lois Starkey 6 Ma rk Weiss Manuel Santana 7 Jo hn Cymbalsky Wayne Gordon 8 Em ily Marchetti Ishbel Dickens 9 Em anuel Levy Michael Lubliner 10 Da vid Tompos Keith Dennis 11 Ka vita Vaidyanathan Richard Potts 12 Er ic Lacey Scott Drake 13 Lo well Ungar Robin Roy 14 Jo hn Caskey Stacey Epperson 15 Do n Surrena Rick Mendlen 16 St even Rosenstock Matthew Walker 17 Ja mes Martin Edward Barbour 18 19 20 21 22

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. HAGERMAN: So let's get started this 3 mo rning. So first, thanks for joining this first 4 wo rking group meeting for the Manufactured Housing 5 AS RAC charter, to meet the Manufactured Housing 6 AS RAC charter. 7 We're going to change the agenda just 8 sl ightly. We're going to let Wayne go ahead and 9 ta lk about ethics real quick; he has to leave us 10 at 9:30, so let's get him out of here. 11 MR. GORDON: My name is Wayne Gordon, I 12 wo rk for the Assistant General Counsel for General 13 La w, her name is Susan Beard. She's also the 14 de signated agency ethics official. My office 15 pr ovides ethics advice for the parent committee to 16 th is working group, which is the Appliance 17 St andards Rule Making Advisory Committee. 18 So in most situations I'm doing ethics 19 br iefings for that organization. When they have 20 sp ecial government employees on that group, I have 21 to advise them regarding their federal ethics 22 ru les.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 4 1 Now, as members of the working group, 2 th e Federal Advisory Committee Act rules and 3 st atutes that are applicable for special 4 go vernment employees, or federal employees, are 5 no t applicable to you. You are actually -- you 6 do n't have any ethics responsibilities, but one of 7 th e things we want to make sure is that you 8 re cognize your roles here. 9 As members of the working group you may 10 ha ve access to non-public information, you're only 11 su pposed to use that for purposes of your work 12 he re. You're not supposed to use it for your own 13 pe rsonal benefit or the benefit of your home 14 in stitutions. 15 We realize that some of you are from 16 su bsidiaries of larges institutions. In the 17 co ntext of the work that you're doing for the 18 wo rking group, you're supposed to be only 19 re presenting your own individual company, and not 20 ne cessarily your parent company. So that role and 21 re sponsibility is for you to sort of stay on track 22 an d only be representing the interests of the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 5 1 or ganization that you're from, not from your 2 pa rent. 3 From ethics perspective, special 4 go vernment employees have all the rules that are 5 ap plicable for federal employees, so every once in 6 a while we identify potential conflicts of 7 in terest. 8 Here all of you don't have any conflicts 9 of interest because you are straight on point for 10 yo ur home institution. But if there are ethics 11 is sues that come up, or if there's something that 12 co mes up in the context of your work here that 13 yo u're concerned about from an appearance 14 pe rspective, one of the things we're always 15 in terested in doing is making sure that we get, 16 pa rticularly in the negotiated rule making, that 17 we get everybody's voice heard, and that there is 18 so rt of a true idea of getting to consensus so 19 th at when you deliver your report, and you deliver 20 yo ur recommendations up to the parent committee, 21 th at it's been thoroughly hashed through at this 22 le vel.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 6 1 If there's an ethics issue, or a 2 qu estion comes up that you think needs to be 3 di scussed, or needs to have an ethics opinion 4 de livered on, you can talk to Joe and Joe will 5 br ing that to my attention, and he'll either do it 6 th rough John, who is the DFO. He's the designated 7 fe deral official for the parent committee, ASRAC, 8 an d they'll bring to my attention, and we'll sort 9 of walk through and see if there's any corrective 10 ac tion that needs to be taken. 11 But other than that, welcome, and if you 12 ha ve any questions just get in touch with Joe or 13 Jo hn. 14 Thank you. 15 MR. HAGERMAN: Thanks, Wayne. 16 First of all can everybody hear me all 17 ri ght? Great. 18 So maybe John Cymbalsky should stand up 19 re al quick. So John Cymbalsky is the head of the 20 Ap pliance Standards Program. That's the John that 21 Wa yne was talking about. 22 So first of all, let me just say thank

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 7 1 yo u for coming out. Thank you for being a part of 2 th is working group to get to a consensus standard 3 am ongst the industry. 4 I'm just going to quickly read over the 5 AS RAC charter that was issued to the working 6 gr oup. So the purpose of this working group will 7 be to discuss, and if possible reach consensus, on 8 a proposed rule for energy efficiency of 9 ma nufactured homes as authorized by Section 413 of 10 IS A. 11 The working group shall complete work on 12 a term sheet for a proposed rule by September 13 30 th, 2014, or either cease activities of the 14 wo rking group, or request an extension with date 15 ce rtain from the larger parent ASRAC. 16 So we're all here because the newest 17 ve rsion of the IACC Code was published, I believe 18 in late June, maybe mid-June, so now we're all 19 he re to talk about how we can get manufactured 20 ho using up to the 2015 IACC levels, as discussed 21 in the statute. 22 So thank you for being a part of this

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 8 1 wo rking group. We look forward to a very 2 pr oductive day today talking about the ground 3 ru les and defining what consensus means, and 4 he aring about the first round of issues that 5 wo rking group will have to consider. 6 So welcome, and if you need anything 7 fr om me; I think everybody has my email address; 8 it 's Joseph.Hagerman@ee.doe.gov. 9 So I want to introduce the facilitators 10 no w -- oh, actually sorry, before I go into that, 11 le t me get to the most important thing of the day. 12 So the Dunkin Donuts is on the ground floor. It's 13 on the G floor. You just go out to those 14 el evators, press G, and then the doors will open 15 an d you'll see a wonderful Dunkin Donuts sign. So 16 th at's coffee and donuts; that takes care of that. 17 If we have an emergency, a fire or 18 an ything, the nearest stairwell is to our left 19 he re. We'll go down that stairwell as a group, 20 ho pefully, and then convene outside and make sure 21 we 've got everybody, and then we'll proceed as 22 di rected.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 9 1 The restrooms, and everything, are also 2 do wn the end of the hall to the left. If you go 3 ou t these doors, you'll see that. There's also a 4 li ttle sub- conference room outside here. If you 5 ne ed to take a break and convene as industry or a 6 gr oup to discuss an issue, you can feel free to 7 wa lk out there and use that room. Also there's 8 te lephones through that kind of entrance here. 9 I think that's about it in terms of 10 lo gistics. Of course, we'll take a lunch break. 11 Th ere's a wonderful DOE federal cafeteria across 12 th e way. If you just show your badge, you can get 13 in , and it's usually just a buffet. 14 Oh, yeah, you also need to always have 15 yo ur badge on or they'll really give you a big 16 ha ssle. So just always make sure that if you're 17 wa lking around show your visitor's badge or your 18 go vernment issued ID. 19 All right. So let me introduce the 20 fa cilitators, Eileen and Javier, they're going to 21 be our main enforcers today to make sure we stay 22 on agenda and get a good dialogue, and go through

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 10 1 th e materials that we have to get through. So 2 I' ll give it to you all. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Good morning. I'm Eileen 4 Ba rkas Hoffman, one of the team here of 5 fa cilitators, and Javier Ramirez, who will also 6 te ll you a little bit about himself, but welcome 7 to a negotiated rule making, which for many of you 8 is a new experience. It's not painful or anything, 9 it 's actually a way of trying to reach consensus. 10 The agency that we both work for is the 11 Fe deral Medication and Conciliation Service, which 12 yo u may or may not have heard of. Right now my 13 bo ss is trying to resolve some -- a dispute 14 in volving the Metropolitan Opera in New York City, 15 an d my other boss is out on the West Coast with 16 gr ain millers trying to deal with that. 17 But what we do in Washington, and with 18 ou r colleagues, is negotiated rule making and 19 ot her forms of dispute resolution. Negotiated 20 ru le making began in the 1980s and our agency was 21 th e very first one to do it in the early 80s; 22 fl ight duty with the Department of the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 11 1 Tr ansportation, and actually was a success. 2 I personally have done at least four of 3 th ese, and they've been very helpful. People 4 re ach an agreement that they can live with and 5 ac tually works through getting a rule better. 6 Ho pefully better. 7 Including those of you -- how many flew 8 he re? Okay. Well, we're responsible in a way for 9 th at decision about who can sit in the exit row. 10 I did a negotiated rule making involving 11 ac cess by disabled individuals to airlines and 12 ai rports, and we found out that people needed to 13 kn ow how to operate and open that door, so that 14 wa s one of the results. 15 I also did one involving mandatory pork 16 pr icing involving the U.S. Department of 17 Ag riculture, and that was the kind of pork that is 18 ac tually a pig, as opposed to what we in 19 Wa shington sometimes refer to as pork. 20 But let me just now say that we're 21 re ally looking forward to working with you, and 22 we 'll be doing this a sub-committee, but we may

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 12 1 en d up with little groups as well, and you've all 2 de dicated your time today and tomorrow to do this, 3 an d we'll also talk about other dates. 4 You also have a packet of material; 5 we 'll try to follow the agenda as best we can, and 6 we 'll end at 5:00. I notice there's some folks in 7 th e back; we even have time at 4:30 for any kind 8 of public questions or comment. So you're 9 in volved too and important. But we know you're 10 al l very busy people, so we're very appreciative, 11 an d this is an important opportunity for everybody 12 he re. 13 So with that, I'm just going to turn it 14 ov er to my colleague, Javier. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: Thanks. My name is Javier 16 Ra mirez, I'm out of the Chicago Field Office, and 17 li ke many of you this is actually my first reg neg 18 fa cilitation. Eileen sold me on that it was not 19 pa inful, since you mentioned that, so we'll see if 20 sh e's true on that. 21 I've done a number of facilitations 22 th ough. We do them on a fairly regular basis in

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 13 1 Ch icago, and I think it's one of the reasons that 2 sh e asked if I can come and help out today. 3 As far as the role of the facilitator, 4 th ere's a few things that we just want to make 5 su re that it's clear of what it is that we're 6 do ing. 7 The first one in think that is important 8 is that we're neutrals. We're not here to 9 ad vocate for either side. You all are what we 10 wo uld call the content, you all control the 11 co ntent, we control the process. All right? And 12 we 're very open to suggestions on the process, but 13 as far as the process goes, through the number of 14 fa cilitations that we've done, we'll give you 15 re commendations along the way of ways to make this 16 th ing work. 17 We are going to try to help you manage 18 th e information, as well as to have a controlled 19 co nversation. As a matter of fact, our court 20 re porter in the back over here has asked that if 21 an y of you do comment, turn your mic on so that 22 wa y we can make sure that we hear you, but also

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 14 1 st ate your name before you make any comments, so 2 th at way she can record it properly. 3 We're hopefully going to make sure that 4 we eliminate any disruptions, that we increase the 5 un derstanding and hopefully the range of ideas to 6 he lp come to a solution. 7 We have some pretty smart people in the 8 ro om, so we've had a chance to look some of you up 9 an d get a little bit of information, and if we 10 ca n't figure this out, shame on us, right? We've 11 go t some pretty smart folks here; hopefully we can 12 ha rness that equity, right? And get you to a 13 re solution. 14 Are there any special needs that we need 15 to be aware of? Okay. 16 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. You can all 17 ea t the cafeteria food? 18 Just a couple of other things. As 19 fa cilitators we do this all the time, but we want 20 to make sure that everyone's heard, everyone had a 21 ch ance to actually get their viewpoints 22 un derstood, and move you along.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 15 1 From reading some of your comments you 2 as ked for very strong facilitators, so we will be 3 st rong, but polite, because we're here to try to 4 ge t your folks to reach a resolution you can live 5 wi th and that is the best kind of law -- rule 6 ma king. 7 We also have put in what's called a 8 pa rking lot, and what that means is if there's an 9 id ea that doesn't actually fit in the agenda at 10 th at moment, we won't forget it, we'll put it up 11 th ere and you'll all keep us honest, so we'll get 12 ba ck to it. 13 So we want you to know that if something 14 is n't working at that moment, it will be brought 15 th rough, and as I mentioned earlier, we'll also 16 wo rk on future dates. But we'll see where we are 17 af ter today as well. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: There may be occasions 19 wh ere, as we're doing the process, that we may 20 ha ve to do what I call a back up, right? Where, 21 ho ld on a second, something's not working here, 22 le t's back this up and see if we can try something

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 16 1 di fferent. 2 You've already got a little taste of it 3 th is morning with some of the acronyms that are 4 go ing to be flying around. If you don't know an 5 ac ronym, you're probably not the only person in 6 th e room that doesn't know; raise your hand if you 7 th ink you need to know that and we'll stop and 8 we 'll make sure that we clarify that. Or any 9 mn emonics that are thrown out there. 10 I use one every now and then, you might 11 he ar me say it, sometimes I'll ask is that a swag 12 nu mber? Which is a scientific wild ass guess, 13 ri ght. So if there's certain mnemonics, certain 14 te rms that you're not familiar with, throw it out 15 th ere and -- 16 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: You want to tell 17 th em ELMO means? 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, there's a couple of 19 th ings. So another one that I'm going to ask you 20 al l to use is ELMO, right? Where you might -- 21 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: I know somebody who 22 ha s young children, you know about Elmo, but this

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 17 1 is different. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: That's not the ELMO I'm 3 ta lking about. The ELMO I'm talking about is 4 en ough, let's move on. Sometimes we as 5 fa cilitators, we may know are you beating a dead 6 ho rse? We may have an idea of it, and we may ask 7 is there enough here; can we move on? But if you 8 al l feel like we're beating a dead horse, shout 9 ou t the ELMO, we'll make sure that everyone's in 10 ag reement, and we'll move on. Okay? 11 The other one that I like to use is, as 12 fa r as breaks go you can see on the agenda that we 13 ha ve designated break times. I'm not firm on 14 ho lding to those designated break times. I like 15 to do what I call one function breaks. Okay? 16 We 'll take them as often as we need them. 17 So if you need a break, just give me the 18 si gn -- 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Like that? 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. Whatever that sign 21 is , and we'll call a one function break. The 22 wh ole idea there is that five, six, seven minutes

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 18 1 to ps, we'll take our break and come back and get 2 wo rking again. 3 The one function meaning check your 4 me ssage, come back; that's your function. Go to 5 th e rest room, come back. 6 Eileen's a little softer than I am, she 7 pe rmits some multi-tasking, so if you go to the 8 ba throom and check your messages at the same time, 9 we 're not going to be enforcing that. The whole 10 id ea here is keep it brief. 11 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: All right. Now I 12 th ink -- do we want to introduce the working 13 gr oup? 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, let's go ahead and 15 do some introductions, right? So I guess we could 16 st art over here and go around. 17 Now, when we do the introductions, I'm 18 go ing to ask for the -- have you ever heard of an 19 el evator speech? Okay. I'm going to shorten that 20 to a DC elevator speech, because there's only ten 21 fl oors -- 22 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Nine or ten.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 19 1 MR. RAMIREZ: Nine floors max, so it's 2 go ing to be really brief, as far as the 3 in troductions go. 4 If you look on the agenda on day two 5 we 're going to be really getting into the issues 6 th ere, and at that point if you really want to 7 ta ke a little bit of time to give some background, 8 we 'll definitely have time to do that on day two. 9 So for now, your name and your 10 or ganization. If you're an alternate, let us know 11 if you're a voting alternate, okay? And who 12 yo u're an alternate for. 13 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: And where you're 14 fr om. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, your organization 16 an d your location. 17 MR. DENNIS: Keith Dennis with the 18 Na tional Rural Electric Cooperative Association. 19 I' m based here in the DC area. 20 MS. DICKENS: Ishbel Dickens, National 21 Ma nufactured Homeowners Association, from Seattle, 22 Wa shington.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 20 1 MR. DRAKE: Scott Drake, East Kentucky 2 Po wer out of Winchester, Kentucky. 3 MS. EPPERSON: Stacey Epperson, Next 4 St ep Network, and based in Louisville, Kentucky. 5 MR. EZZO: Mark Ezzo, Clayton Homes, and 6 I' m in Knoxville, Tennessee. 7 MR. UNGAR: Lowell Ungar with American 8 Co uncil for an Energy Efficient Economy, based 9 he re in DC. 10 MR. LACEY: Eric Lacey, Responsible 11 En ergy Codes Alliance, based here in DC. 12 MR. SANTANA: Manny Santana, with Cavco 13 In dustries, Phoenix, Arizona. 14 MR. LUTER: Rob Luter with Lippert 15 Co mponents, Elkhart, Indiana. 16 MR. POTTS: Richard Potts, Virginia 17 De partment of Housing and Community Development, 18 Ri chmond, Virginia. 19 MR. ROY: Robin Roy, Natural Resources 20 De fense Council, Silicon Valley. 21 MR. WEISS: Mark Weiss, Manufactured 22 Ho using Association for Regulatory Reform, and we

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 21 1 re present smaller manufacturers of manufactured 2 ho mes, based here in the DC area. 3 MR. TOMPOS: Dave Tompos with the NTA, 4 we 're a third party inspection agency. 5 MS. STARKEY: Lois Starkey with the 6 Ma nufactured Housing Institute and we represent 7 al l sectors of the manufactured housing industry, 8 an d we're located in Arlington, Virginia. 9 MS. CYMBALSKY: Good morning, I'm John 10 Cy mbalsky; I'm the Program Manager for Applied 11 St andards and Building Codes here at DOE. I am 12 th e DFO of ASRAC, but today I am the voting 13 de legate for John Caskey of ASRAC. 14 MR. HAGERMAN: And I'm Joe Hagerman, I'm 15 Se nior Advisor to Building Office at DOE. 16 MR. RAMIREZ: Before we get started we 17 wa nt to just introduce the people sitting over 18 he re so that you know who they are. 19 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: I'm here at the DOE 20 Ge neral Counsel's Office, and I'm Program Counsel 21 fo r the Building Technologies Office. 22 MR. BARBOUR: I'm Ed Barbour, I'm with

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 22 1 th e Navigant Consulting; we support the Department 2 of Energy on a number of rule makings and we are 3 lo cated here in DC. 4 MR. WALKER: I'm Matthew Walker, also 5 wi th Navigant Consulting. 6 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: And Natasha is our 7 co urt reporter, and Emily is helping with the 8 we binar, and we would like, since it's such a 9 sm all group, if we wouldn't mind -- if you would 10 in troduce yourselves, folks in the audience, but 11 yo u have to put one of the microphones on. 12 MS. PONTILLO: Good morning, my name is 13 Pa m Pontillo, and I'm from DOE and I'm with the 14 Of fice of Conflict Prevention and Resolution, and 15 ou r office may be getting involved in this at some 16 po int, so we just wanted to learn a little bit 17 mo re about it. Thank you. 18 MS. FREIMUTH: Hi, my name is Janet 19 Fr eimuth, I also work at the Office of Conflict 20 Pr evention at Resolution, and I'm here with Pam 21 to day. Thank you. 22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steven Rosenstock,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 23 1 Ed ison Electric Institute, Washington, DC. 2 MR. MARTIN: Hi, I'm James Martin, I'm 3 wi th HUD's Office of Manufactured Housing 4 Pr ograms. 5 MR. MENDLEN: Good morning, I'm Rick 6 Me ndlen, I'm with the Office of Manufactured 7 Ho using Programs with HUD, and we do regulate 8 ma nufactured housing, and we are definitely 9 in terested. 10 MR. COHEN: My name is Dan Cohen, I'm 11 wi th the General Counsel's Office here at DOE. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: And I believe we have a 13 co uple of people either on phone or in the 14 we binar. How do we get those folks introduced? 15 MS. MARCHETTI: I can -- 16 MR. HAGERMAN: I guess we should also 17 as k can they hear us, as well. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: So are they on muted now? 19 MS. MARCHETTI: They are. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So the folks 21 wh o are on the webinar, I guess the first question 22 is can you hear us? I take it that's a no. Oh,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 24 1 ye ah, I think some of them are typing as they are 2 go ing. 3 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: I think I like the 4 mu te. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 6 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: These are -- I 7 th ink these are the ones on the phone. Do you 8 wa nt to just check? 9 MR. RAMIREZ: So folks that are on 10 ei ther the phone or on the webinar, Bryan Rocky, 11 Do n Surrena, Michael Dubliner, Michael Wade, and 12 Th omas Ponder. 13 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. So we all 14 kn ow who we are and maybe why we're here, and what 15 we 'd like to do now is hear from John Cymbalsky as 16 th e ASRAC representative. 17 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't wear dress shoes 18 to day so I'm going to sit under the table and kind 19 of hide my feet. 20 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Can you all see? I 21 ca n move out of the way. Can you see? 22 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. So we've talked a

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 25 1 li ttle bit about why we're here. I hope, as 2 Ei leen mentioned, you all volunteered for this 3 wo rking group so I assume you have an interest in 4 re solving what has been a bit of a long rule 5 ma king on manufactured housing. 6 So I'll speak on behalf of the 7 De partment at this point, that obviously we're 8 ve ry interested in moving this rule making along. 9 As I said earlier, for the next day and 10 a half I'll be representing John Caskey. He will 11 ac tually come in this afternoon, I believe around 12 2: 00 o'clock, for part of the afternoon. He's had 13 an emergency back at the office, so I've stepped 14 in . 15 We've, just so that everybody knows, had 16 a discussion on Friday about some of the things I 17 th ink will come up in the next two days, and I 18 ha ve cleared with him what his thinking is in 19 te rms of what votes will come up, so I'm actually 20

-- am a full proxy for John, and not for DOE at 21 th is point. 22 So ASRAC was established in 2012 mostly

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 26 1 to tackle some issues with applied standards rule 2 ma king, but the charter for the full ASRAC 3 co mmittee also left open to have some issues that 4 we re important to the Secretary, such as 5 ma nufactured housing. 6 So I know there was some questions 7 ar ound the room, why is manufactured housing part 8 of an appliance standards federal advisor 9 co mmittee? In fact, it fits in the charter quite 10 we ll, and as a rule making I think my office, 11 al ong with the General Counsel's Office, that 12 wo rks in the regulatory program has great 13 ex perience in doing rule makings, and in 14 pa rticular these negotiated rule makings. 15 So this is our -- let's see we've done 16 on e, two -- this is three and four. ASRAC 17 ch artered two groups on July 7th. Besides this 18 we 're also going to tackle regional enforcement of 19 ce ntral air conditioner standards. 20 So the scope of the ASRAC is pretty 21 wi de. We don't just negotiate standards levels, 22 bu t we negotiate certain aspects of our regulatory

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 27 1 pr ogram, like certification of commercial 2 eq uipment, which was another group we formed, 3 wh ich was very successful. We negotiated out over 4 10 0 different aspects of how manufacturers certify 5 co mmercial equipment. 6 We just recently finished a working 7 gr oups for pumps, commercial industrial pumps. 8 Ag ain, another success in negotiating standards 9 le vels for pumps. We, in fact, finished that 10 wo rking group several weeks early. 11 So I am optimistic. I know this group 12 ha s expressed interest in moving this along 13 qu ickly. From DOE and ASRAC's perspective, we 14 ho pe that is the case as well. 15 Okay. So that goes pretty much over the 16 sl ide seven. Moving on to slide eight. Again, we 17 fo rm working groups out of ASRAC to tackle various 18 is sues. DOE may withdraw tasks from ASRAC at any 19 ti me if it feels that the group is not moving 20 fo rward with its objectives. 21 In the event that a consensus is not 22 re ached, and ASRAC does not give more time for

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 28 1 th is consensus to be reached, DOE will go ahead 2 wi th its task of finishing the rule making. So it 3 sh ould be something that everyone keeps in the 4 ba ck of their minds as they negotiate these 5 st andard levels over the next couple of months, 6 th at the fact of the matter is if you don't reach 7 co nsensus here, DOE will reach its own consensus, 8 fo r better or for worse. 9 However, we really hope that this group 10 do es come to a consensus because as Eileen 11 me ntioned, we feel the negotiated settlement is 12 le ss painful for everybody. 13 Okay. So what are the benefits of the 14 ne gotiated rule making? So what we found in the 15 fe w that we've done here is that it does put a lot 16 of effort towards a lot of people here, everyone 17 he re -- this is a working group and the word 18 wo rking is actually an active word for this group. 19 Yo u are expected to actually work. 20 Everyone needs to put effort into this, 21 no t only at the meetings, but in-between meetings. 22 Th ere's going to be homework, there's going to be

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 29 1 an alysis, there's going to be thinking that 2 ev eryone's going to have do. You could have side 3 ph one calls within your little caucuses that might 4 fo rm between meetings to come up with sort of, you 5 kn ow, how you want to push things along. That's 6 fi ne. 7 But we expect everyone to come prepared 8 to the meetings and put the time and effort into 9 th is process. 10 We think it could be less adversarial, 11 no t necessarily, but could be. I think the forum 12 he re is set up well for a good dialogue on all the 13 is sues. I expect everybody to participate and put 14 th eir ideas forward, and debate them. I think 15 ev eryone should keep an open mind to everyone 16 el se's opinions. You may not agree with them, but 17 I think as we go through negotiations it's 18 in cumbent on everyone to hear everybody's position 19 to move things forward. 20 Our usual DOE process is one in which we 21 ha ve a public meeting, we present information and 22 th en we go back to our desks and our consultants,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 30 1 an d some of us feds do a lot of work, and then a 2 ye ar later you'll hear from us again with some 3 nu mbers, and another public meeting. 4 This process is actually very different 5 th an that, so we're going to do things in real 6 ti me. We're going to have meetings -- much 7 qu icker in between meetings, much more information 8 fl owing in a shorter period of time, but 9 ev erything's going to be out on the table. 10 So there's no feelings of DOE doing 11 th ings in a vacuum, or creating analysis in black 12 bo x. We don't that anyway in our rules but I 13 th ink having meetings like this really reinforces 14 th e fact that this is an open and transparent 15 pr ocess, everyone can learn as we go. 16 Then finally, at the end everyone's 17 go ing to sign on. If we do reach consensus, it 18 me ans you've signed onto the rule and you agree 19 wi th the outcome, so we expect that there's be no 20 ne gative words, or worse, lawsuits coming from 21 th is. 22 Okay. So here's the flow chart. You

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 31 1 ca n see DOE on the upper left. DOE, or others in 2 th e public, at the public meetings for ASRAC full 3 co mmittee discuss ideas of tasks. ASRAC either 4 ag rees or not agrees to charter a working group. 5 So you can see on the right that's step two. 6 Here we are now in step three, where we 7 fo rm the working group and now we're having some 8 me etings to go over how to reach consensus. So 9 we 're in step four and five, and we're going to 10 ho pefully come to a consensus. 11 John Caskey, who will be here throughout 12 af ter these next two days, will occasionally brief 13 AS RAC as necessary on progress reports. 14 Then finally, by September 30th the hope 15 is that this group comes up with what's known as a 16 te rm sheet. The term sheet will lay out very 17 de tailed on what you are presenting to ASRAC as 18 yo ur consensus negotiation. 19 So the term sheet will be presented to 20 AS RAC in a meeting, and the ASRAC full committee 21 wi ll decide whether to accept it or not. Clearly 22 th e ASRAC committee member, who is John Caskey,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 32 1 wi ll be part of these negotiations all the while, 2 an d the feeling there is that his participation 3 he re will leverage a lot of the information to the 4 fu ll ASRAC committee. 5 So far the full ASRAC committee has 6 ac cepted every recommendation that has come out of 7 a working group, so I fully expect that if 8 so mething comes out this as a term sheet, they 9 wi ll accept it as well. 10 At that point the recommendation then 11 go es to DOE, and then the Secretary has the last 12 sa y whether or not to accept the terms. As 13 me ntioned with ASRAC, the Secretary at this point 14 ha s accepted every term sheet that has come out of 15 th e full ASRAC. 16 Okay. The tasking discussions. So you 17 kn ow, just to go back over this -- 18 MR. RAMIREZ: John can you get -- 19 MR. CYMBALSKY: Oh, it didn't go? Oh, 20 so rry, there we go. 21 I mentioned already that everyone 22 vo lunteered here, so the expectation is since you

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 33 1 vo lunteers you'll put the time in and I hope that 2 is the case. You'll make every effort to attend 3 th e meetings. At some point today or tomorrow we 4 wi ll go over the next -- hopefully fill out the 5 se t of meetings through the end of September to 6 ge t the job done. 7 Hopefully, everyone has their calendar 8 wi th them, because we will go through the dates 9 an d try to get as many people as possible to agree 10 to dates. And again, September 30th is the due 11 da te for this term sheet. 12 A few more little details about ASRAC. 13 I think I've talked through most of these, but the 14 wo rking groups are limited to 25 members. We've 15 go t close to 25, not quite 25 here. We accepted 16 mo st of the nominations that we received. Most 17 ev eryone was qualified and had a vested interest 18 in this, so we accepted the majority of the 19 wo rking group applications. 20 So at some point I think -- you know, 21 th is last bullet says it's going to select a 22 wo rking group chair. I'm not sure we've done that

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 34 1 in the other working groups, to be quite honest 2 wi th you. We've sort of let things flow, and let 3 th e facilitators do their job, but if the group 4 th inks that there should be somebody sort of in 5 ch arge to crack the whip, as opposed to the 6 fa cilitators, that's fine too. We just haven't 7 do ne that before. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: I'll be glad to crack it. 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: We'll take turns. 10 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. So this slide 11 ju st goes back and talks about what we've done 12 al ready. So we've put out the Federal Register 13 No tice with the names and the first meeting dates. 14 The next meeting -- the next Federal 15 Re gister Notice will detail the rest of the 16 me etings for the next two months. 17 Then I think this is just pretty 18 st raightforward information. Everyone here is 19 go ing to have a chance to comment on everything we 20 do . 21 Deliberations, so that's where we are 22 to day. Everything of this negotiation must be in

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 35 1 fu ll compliance with statutory mandates, and we 2 kn ow what they are. 3 We will be providing data as we go. I 4 th ink Joe will get into this a little bit later, 5 bu t we do anticipate providing some analysis for 6 ev eryone to chew on as we go forward with the 7 ne gotiations, and we will preform analysis in real 8 ti me. 9 So ideas might percolate as we go 10 th rough this, where the first set of numbers have 11 as sumption X, Y, and Z. Someone might want to see 12 AA , b, and C, and so we have our consultants here 13 to help facilitate any extra analyses that people 14 wa nt to see, and this has been successful in 15 ge tting to consensus in a few of the other working 16 gr oups. 17 Then as we go through the ground rules, 18 ob viously the deadlines will be -- we know the 19 de adline already, but the goals that we want out 20 of this, and what exact -- you know, what you 21 va lues, for example, that we're going to negotiate 22 ar ound will come clear when we go through this.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 36 1 Okay. So consensus. So this is going 2 to be probably the big topic for today, I would 3 im agine. What is consensus? So consensus is going 4 to be defined by this group, and consensus means a 5 lo t of things to a lot of different people. 6 The facilitators will go over this in 7 gr eat detail, put out ideas for what consensus 8 co uld mean, and we'll get a chance to discuss it 9 an d vote upon it over the next few hours here. 10 Okay. So once we determine consensus 11 an d go through all the process, we're going to 12 ne gotiate. If things get bogged down but we think 13 we can get to yes with a little more time, the 14 gr oup can vote to ask ASRAC for more time. 15 I think with our transformers 16 ne gotiations we did extend the deadline by a 17 co uple of months, and it did help get to yes on 18 so me of the substance. So there is room for that, 19 bu t we shouldn't necessarily think to ourselves 20 th at we're going to want more time. I think let's 21 do our best to try to finish by September 30th. 22 Again, if we don't get to yes, then this

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 37 1 ba sically just goes back to DOE to complete a 2 pr oposed rule making. 3 I should say that the term sheet that 4 th is group votes out, if they do, will be the guts 5 of what the proposed rule making will be. So I 6 do n't know if that was clear earlier, but it's 7 cl ear now that whatever comes out of here in the 8 fo rm of consensus will be what DOE puts in its 9 No tice of Proposed Rule Making if accepted by 10 AS RAC and the Secretary. 11 Okay. So again, here's the flow chart. 12 At this point I'll open it up to some questions. 13 Th e next slide just shows you what the charter is, 14 bu t if anybody has any questions over the material 15 I just covered, I'd be happy to answer them on 16 be half of either DOE or ASRAC at this point. 17 Mark? 18 MR. WEISS: Are you going to be covering 19 th e ground rules on that separately? 20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Separately, yeah. And 21 th en please -- I don't know if everyone knows how 22 to operate the microphone. So there's a little

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 38 1 bu tton that says push. If you're not speaking 2 pl ease push it so that the green light goes off. 3 If you leave it on, it tends to cause feedback in 4 th e room, so please just keep the mic on when 5 yo u're actively speaking. 6 Then Joe has just reminded me, the scope 7 in the charter. So the charter here is about just 8 th e standards levels, it's not about enforcement 9 of that. That is not on the table, as of yet, from 10 AS RAC. So as we go through this, let's just keep 11 th e scope of what we've been chartered to do, 12 wh ich is to negotiate standards levels and not the 13 en forcement of such. 14 Yes? 15 MR. EZZO: Why aren't we talking about 16 en forcement? 17 MR. CYMBALSKY: It's not part of the 18 ch arter. 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Folks, state your name 20 be fore just for the reporter. 21 MR. EZZO: Mark Ezzo. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: It's going to take a

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 39 1 li ttle bit of getting used to. 2 MR. EZZO: Is there another opportunity 3 wh ere we're going to talk about enforcement, or 4 an other separate group? 5 MR. CYMBALSKY: It could happen that 6 wa y. So in a commercial cert group towards the end 7 th ere was discussion around voluntary 8 ce rtification programs, for example, that wasn't 9 pa rt of the charter, but there was discussion 10 ab out it. The group ultimately decided not to try 11 to charter a second working group for that. 12 MR. LUTER: Rob Luter with Lippert 13 Co mponents. What about implementation timeframe; 14 wi ll there be discussion on that? 15 MR. CYMBALSKY: So I'd ask my GC 16 co lleagues to help with the -- I'm actually not -- 17 MR. LUTER: If I could elaborate, the 18 ru le making that we discuss can't really be made 19 in a vacuum. If it's to be implemented three 20 mo nths from now it may be a very different 21 di scussion versus it's implemented two years from 22 no w.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 40 1 MR. CYMBALSKY: So I'd love to see what 2 th e statutory requirement is for the compliance. 3 I honestly don't know. 4 MR. LUTER: I think it's important that 5 we have some conversation on that. 6 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay. We'll -- let's 7 pu t that in the parking lot, please. 8 I have a lot of people reading through 9 ma terial to see if we can figure that one out. 10 Any other questions on ASRAC type stuff? 11 MS. STARKEY: Lois Starkey, MHI. What 12 wa s the -- maybe you've covered this and I didn't 13 he ar it, the result of the four, I believe, ASRAC 14 re commendations that went to the Secretary; did 15 th ey then go through rulemaking? How did that -- 16 ma ybe that will answer some of these questions 17 ab out at least implementation of the standards 18 pa rt. 19 MR. CYMBALSKY: Sure. So the term sheet 20 wa s sent -- in each of the cases, the term sheet 21 wa s sent to the full ASRAC and accepted as is with 22 no modifications, which in then turn was presented

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 41 1 to the Department and the Secretary, and all of 2 th at went into a proposed rule making. 3 So at that point a proposed rule making 4 ha s to be reviewed by OMB, and so that's a 90-day 5 pe riod, at which time the proposal is published 6 an d a 60-day public comment period. Once the 7 pu blic comments are received, DOE then takes some 8 ti me to formulate a final rule, which then goes 9 th rough OMB for another 90 days, and once the 10 fi nal rule is published, at least for the 11 ap pliance standards, there is a period of time for 12 co mpliance, and I don't know how -- honestly how 13 it works for manufactured housing, but for the 14 ap pliances it's anywhere from three to five years, 15 ge nerally. 16 MR. WEISS: For those of us who haven't 17 do ne this before, we get copies of some of those 18 pr evious term sheets, or are they accessible on 19 th e Internet for us to take a look at? 20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yes. 21 MR. RAMIREZ: That was Mark Weiss. 22 MR. WEISS: Sorry. That's two demerits.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 42 1 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: That's right, yes. 2 Wh o's counting? But so copies of term sheets? 3 MR. CYMBALSKY: So what I'm told, 4 pa rking lot item number one, we could actually 5 cl ear up already. So the statute is not -- does 6 no t specify a compliance date. So that is 7 so mething we can actually negotiate. 8 Okay. So I don't see any more 9 qu estions. But so just to clarify. I guess an 10 an alogy for another working group; so the pumps 11 wo rking group had during its negotiations 12 id entified several types of pumps and what the 13 gr oup did was it set standards for a particular, 14 bu t rather large product class of pumps, and then 15 am ongst themselves decided that they were going to 16 se parately going to negotiate standards not inside 17 th e FACA process for the other set of pumps. 18 So that's, again, just another idea to 19 th row out there about enforcement, or other 20 op portunities that might present itself as we go 21 th rough here. 22 The group could also ask ASRAC to form

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 43 1 an other working group to tackle enforcement. We 2 co uld finish the term sheet here and also ask 3 AS RAC to extend this working group to discuss 4 en forcement. I think that's something that can be 5 at least requested. So there are opportunities for 6 fu rther work. 7 I think at this point we'll turn it 8 ba ck. 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes. Joe? We're 10 es tablishing ground rules. The question is do 11 wa nt to take a break? 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, let's do a quick on 13 fu nction then. 14 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: About a ten minute 15 br eak, and then we'll come back to talking about 16 es tablishing ground rules, wrestling with the 17 is sue of consensus, and then all of the ground 18 ru les. So we'll give you ten minutes. And we 19 me ntioned the facilities are right out to the left 20 he re. 21 (A brief break was taken.) 22 MR. RAMIREZ: Let's go ahead and start

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 44 1 pu lling us back in to get started. Okay. I think 2 we 're ready to go here, so I'm going to talk to 3 yo u a little bit about consensus. 4 Well, let me ask you all, can you tell 5 me what consensus is? 6 MR. SANTANA: Everybody agree with that 7 I say. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. No, no, not at 9 ho me. 10 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: That was Manny. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, yeah. Anybody else 12 wa nt to take a shot at it? 13 (Simultaneous Speaking) 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Unanimous or majority? 15 Th ose could be forms of consensus. 16 MS. DICKENS: A process whereby 17 ev erybody has an opportunity for input and 18 ul timately you get to a place where even if you 19 do n't all agree, those who don't agree are willing 20 to step back and allow the process to go forward. 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Goodness. She gets a gold 22 st ar.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 45 1 All right. So yeah, and the reason that 2 I asked you what is consensus, because although we 3 al l have an idea of what it is, we all have a 4 sl ightly different interpretation of what it -- 5 wh at consensus truly is. 6 We want to make sure that all of you are 7 on the same page before we get started, and that's 8 wh y we're doing this. Okay? 9 So as Ishbel said the points are right 10 th ere, right? Everyone has been heard, the 11 de cision may not be every person's first choice, 12 bu t they can live with, and more importantly 13 su pport the decision. And why are they supporting 14 th e decision? Because everyone's been heard, 15 ri ght? 16 So when you're looking at, and although 17 it may not necessarily be your first choice, 18 yo u're looking at this -- what we call -- anyone 19 fa miliar with the term BATNA and WATNA, the best 20 al ternative to a negotiated agreement, that's 21 BA TNA. WATNA is the worst alternative to a 22 ne gotiated agreement. Best alternative; worst

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 46 1 al ternative. 2 So you're measuring what people are 3 ta lking about against what's the alternative. 4 Ho wever, I struggle with those terms because 5 us ually they're either very doom or gloom, or very 6 ro sy. So I like to call it the MLATNA, the most 7 li kely alternative to a negotiated agreement. 8 Th at's what you're looking at against as we're 9 ha ving these discussions. 10 So here are some of the consensus 11 gu idelines that we're going to use. We're going 12 to try to create a solution that can be supported 13 by everyone, and we want to aim for an interest14 ba sed solution. 15 Now, if we do this thing right, we're 16 go ing to be spending more time talking about and 17 ge tting an understanding of what is the issue, and 18 th e interest. So what's the difference between the 19 is sues and the interests? The issue is the what? 20 Th e interest is the why? Why is this a problem? 21 Wh y is it a concern? Right? So we're going to be 22 sp ending a lot of time on the issue, and the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 47 1 in terest. 2 As a matter of fact, I think it was 3 Ei nstein that said that if I had one hour to solve 4 a problem, and my life depended on it, I would 5 ta ke the first 55 minutes to make sure that I 6 un derstood the problem, and the last five minutes 7 to actually start solving it. 8 Hopefully that's the mentality that 9 we 're going to take in here. Make sure we fully 10 un derstand what are the issues, what are the 11 in terests, and then discuss problem solving. 12 So here are some additional guidelines. 13 If we're going to do this right we want to make 14 su re that you're asking questions, and not just 15 an y questions, a lot of times questions are 16 st atements in the form of a question. We want to 17 as k curious questions. Question to help develop 18 un derstanding. We want to raise valid doubts, 19 of fer alternatives, and we want to spend more time 20 on how can we make this work/why is it not going 21 to work? Do you see the difference there? 22 So if we're talking about something,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 48 1 le t's figure out how can make this thing work, and 2 th at's to compete for individual ideas. 3 So when we talk about consensus, this is 4 th e ladder of consensus, and if you look at the 5 fi rst one there, agree completely, you know, break 6 ou t the pompoms, everyone's happy, right? The 7 ne xt level is acceptable; can live with the 8 de cision. There's a third, and then do not agree, 9 bu t won't block and will support. Then do not 10 ag ree and will block. 11 Now, I've seen very few groups that when 12 th ey're gauging the level of consensus they've 13 us ed fingers, where five fingers will be agree 14 co mpletely, this will be acceptable, would be 15 fo ur. Three fingers, can live with the decision. 16 Tw o fingers, do not agree but won't block and will 17 su pport. Then one figure would be do not agree 18 an d will block. 19 You can decide which finger, right, but 20 on ly one finger standing, right? I think that's a 21 li ttle complicated. So the way that we like to do 22 it is the thumbs. Thumb up; first two, agree

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 49 1 co mpletely or acceptable. Sideways; you can live 2 wi th the decision, or don't agree but won't block, 3 an d again will support, I sideways. Thumb down is 4 no agreement. Okay? I'm going to talk a little 5 bi t more about thumbs down in a little bit. 6 So any questions on the ladder of 7 co nsensus and how we're going to use the thumbs to 8 ga uge it? I'm going to do a couple of practice 9 ru ns here and these are things that we as 10 fa cilitators, that I like to make sure that we're 11 do ing, and let me see where -- if I get buy-in on 12 th em. 13 So apart from the ground rules that 14 Ei leen's going to be going through with you, I 15 wa nt to see if we can agree on these. Agree on 16 wh at important words mean, okay? So that's one of 17 th e ground rules that I like. Agree on what 18 im portant words mean. 19 Because there's times where parties are 20 ar guing about stuff, but they have a different 21 in terpretation of a certain word, so if we see 22 th at disconnect we're going to pause and say, what

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 50 1 a second, what do you mean by X? Okay? 2 So is everyone okay with that? Agree on 3 wh at important words mean? Let me see where 4 yo u're at on that. All right. So there were no 5 th umbs down, so that one's good. 6 Focus on interest and not positions, 7 ri ght? We want to focus on the why not the what. 8 I' m sorry - - the way, not the how. Your how. 9 Ok ay? Focus on interest, not positions. Everyone 10 ok ay with that? Yeah? 11 MR. SANTANA: The how is important. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Right. 13 MR. SANTANA: How can you focus on the 14 wh y, not the how? 15 MR. RAMIREZ: I should clarify; not your 16 ho w necessarily. There could be other ways to get 17 th ere. So what we want to do is once we fully 18 un derstand what is the issue, and what are the 19 in terests, is there a different way to go there? 20 Ma ybe something different than what you originally 21 we re thinking of when you came in. Okay? So 22 fo cus on the interest, not positions. Everyone

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 51 1 ok ay with that? Let me see a show of thumbs. 2 Nice. All right. So you're getting 3 th is. So a sideways. Where was yours? 4 MR. LEVY: Still thinking. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So what do you do? 6 Yo u know what, abstaining -- yeah, abstaining 7 wo uld be sideways, right? Or it could be the 8 th umbs down, because the first thing you said was, 9 I was thinking. You could do a thumbs down for 10 th at, because what happens is if your thumbs is 11 do wn, I'm going to look at you and say why is your 12 th umb down? Because I need a few more minutes to 13 pr ocess. No problem. We'll take a couple more 14 mi nutes, we'll let you process it, and then we'll 15 ch eck again. Okay? 16 So in that case if you're saying, you 17 kn ow what, I'll go along with it, then yeah, it's 18 si deways. Okay? This is why I'm doing a few 19 li ttle practice runs. 20 Explain reasoning and intent. So if you 21 ar e going to give an option, be prepared to 22 ex plain the reasoning and intent behind it. Okay?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 52 1 Pe ople okay with that? I didn't see some thumbs 2 up , right? 3 So what happens with that? I call it 4 th e steamroller. Okay? There may be times when 5 I' m going spark up that steamroller, and I'm going 6 to say, hey, I don't see any thumbs down; we're 7 go od. It's your responsibility to put your thumb 8 up or down, okay? 9 Discuss un-discussable issues. There's 10 ti mes where were doing these things and we get 11 th is dynamic going; you know, everyone kind of 12 lo ok around like, oh man, they just stepped in it, 13 ri ght? Hey, if we need to talk about it, we're 14 go ing to bring it up. Okay? We're going to pick 15 on you and say what are you thinking? What's 16 go ing on? And get it out in the open. Is 17 ev eryone okay with that? Let me see a show of 18 th umbs if you're okay with that, discuss un19 di scussable issues. All right. 20 Then the last one. No spitting, 21 ki cking, punching, yelling, screaming, scratching, 22 pu lling hair, slapping. All right. That's my way

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 53 1 of telling the parties be hard on the issues not 2 on the people. Okay? 3 Sometimes negotiations can get a bit 4 em otional, emotions start to rise, they get in the 5 wa y; we'll see what can do to deal with that and 6 re focus you all on what we need to do to get a 7 de al. Okay? Everyone okay with that one? Let me 8 se e a show of thumbs. Okay. 9 So feeling pretty good with the thumbs, 10 ri ght? Now, if your thumb is down, and you if 11 no tice in the consensus ladder we said that do not 12 ag ree and will block; if your thumb is down, 13 th at's a block. You're a blocker, and it's not 14 ne cessary a bad thing. But if your thumb is down, 15 I' m going to ask you why is your thumb down? All 16 ri ght? 17 I had, after one negotiations, I had a 18 pe rson telling me during one of the breaks, why do 19 yo u keep picking on me? I said, well, what do you 20 me an? He said, you keep calling on me. Well, 21 be cause your thumb is down, right? And if your 22 th umb is down, we need to know why. It could be

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 54 1 ju st as simple as, hey, I spaced out. 2 Does anyone have an idea of more or less 3 on average how long we focus on a topic in chunks? 4 17 seconds. Okay? So on average. You're going 5 to space out; it's going to happen. Okay? And if 6 it happens during the time that I just asked a 7 qu estion, oh my God, why are thumbing? Right? I 8 di dn't understand the question, right? 9 That can also be the second one, right? 10 No t sure of the question. Maybe I didn't phrase 11 it right. Maybe I threw in a double negative and 12 yo u're like, oh my God, what do I do there? 13 Ri ght? Maybe I wasn't clear on it. So if you 14 do n't know, put your thumb down, okay, and we'll 15 ta lk about it. 16 Or it could be that you're blocking, 17 ri ght? But if you do block, it's not just as 18 si mple as no. If you put your thumb down, you're 19 go ing to have a responsibility and that 20 re sponsibility is to explain what the concern is, 21 an d offer an alternative. Okay? 22 So you're not going to escape very easy

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 55 1 th inking that I'm just going to block, block, 2 bl ock, block; you need to explain why and offer 3 th e alternative. Okay? 4 So we're going to do a few things as far 5 as what I call temperature checks. So every now 6 an d then I may just ask the group, where are you 7 at on this? Let's see, right? And that's a 8 te mperature check. 9 Versus the consensus confirmation, and 10 we 'll make it clear. This is the consensus 11 co nfirmation, and this is the official one, where 12 ar e at? And then the thumbs will be shown, okay? 13 Now again, it's your responsibility to 14 sh ow the thumb, otherwise -- you know, for the 15 fi rst few at least, I'll be telling you, I'm 16 st arting up the steamroller; I'm getting ready to 17 go here. Are you sure? And if you don't put your 18 th umb down, then it's essentially a this. Okay? 19 Ev eryone clear on that? 20 All right. So what we are suggesting as 21 fa r as consensus goes is what we call a super 22 ma jority. Now, a super majority is anything that's

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 56 1 ab ove 50 percent plus one. Okay? We're not 2 ta lking about 50 percent plus two. 3 When we talk about a super majority, 4 wh at we're going to do is we're going to strive to 5 ge t you as many times as possible as close to 100 6 pe rcent. Okay? However, as a floor we're 7 su ggesting a two- third majority. 8 So I believe -- I counted quickly -- 9 th ere was 15 folks in the room today, and we would 10 do this every day. We'll do this every day; see 11 wh at the voting count is for that day, and if 12 th ere's -- you know, for my simple head, I'll tell 13 yo u what, I wasn't hired because of my spelling -- 14 as a matter of fact, I was commended on my 15 cr eativity when it comes to spelling, and I wasn't 16 ne cessarily hired for my math skills. 17 So for my simple head let's just say 18 th ere's 15 people in the room; two-thirds, we need 19 to have ten folks. Or essentially five people 20 th at would be blocking, right? So we need at 21 le ast ten people in that simple math that are 22 ei ther affirming or they're going to go ahead and

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 57 1 sa y I'm not voting at all. They just don't throw 2 an y thumbs up, because again, that's going to be a 3 si deways. So if they abstain or affirm, there you 4 ha ve it. Again, so we'll confirm that daily 5 nu mber so you'll know exactly what it is when we 6 ge t started. 7 So let me see a show of thumbs, and this 8 is the way, again, to have dialogue, and let me 9 ba ck it up before I do a formal thumbing there. 10 An d it's not a bad thing, that could be -- 11 th umbing -- okay. 12 As a matter of fact, I did this in 13 Ba ngladesh and when I was over there in Bangladesh 14 th is is an insult. 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Right, you can't do 16 th at there. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: So we had to use the 18 fi ngers in Bangladesh. A little muddy, but we got 19 th rough it. 20 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: That's why body 21 la nguage doesn't always translate. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: Right. Okay. So when we

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 58 1 do the thumbing it could also be a way to generate 2 mo re dialogue. Because if you remember with the 3 co nsensus everyone was heard. So I might ask the 4 gr oup where are we at on this, and if your thumb 5 is down, great, we're going to go and we're going 6 to have some more dialogue. 7 So it's a way to generate conversation, 8 no t necessarily trying to twist arms and get you 9 to agree to anything; it's a way to generate 10 di alogue. Okay? So if you're not in agreement, 11 yo u can always throw the thumb down and we'll talk 12 ab out it. 13 So as far as our process goes, we're 14 go ing to strive as much as we can go get close to 15 10 0 percent on consensus, but as a floor two-third 16 ma jority. Let me see if you're okay with that. 17 Le t me see a show of thumbs if you're okay with a 18 su per majority of two-thirds minimum. Okay. 19 Now, Eileen is going to go over the 20 gr ound rules with you, and so when we get to that 21 se ction on the ground rules if we need to tighten 22 th at up a little bit as far as the consensus

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 59 1 la nguage, we can do that. 2 Nut we're going to review it all. I 3 be lieve we're going to be asking for some thumbs 4 oc casionally to make sure that everyone's okay 5 wi th the ground rules, but if you all need to say 6 so mething just state your name, let's get in on 7 re cord. 8 Most of this stuff -- I feel sorry for 9 th e poor court reporter on that ground; we're all 10 ta lking there. That's okay, that wasn't anything 11 of ficial, right? We're just trying to get that -- 12 I mean, the consensus vote, that was unanimous 13 ri ght? And we're going to do that, we're going to 14 do a best to get you close to a consensus. 15 MR. LUBLINER: I didn't object to it -- 16 MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, it was. Correct? 17 MR. ROY: Robin Roy, NRDC. I didn't 18 ob ject to it, but I wasn't sure; it went pretty 19 qu ickly. Was everybody happy with the idea of 20 tw o-thirds being adequate for consensus? If 21 th at's the case, I'm happy with it, I don't have 22 an objection, but I also am quite respective of

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 60 1 mi nority interests and if somebody at this table 2 th ings they have one, I'd really like to hear it 3 ra ther than just rolling so quickly through it. 4 MR. RAMIREZ: No problem. 5 MR. UNGAR: Lowell Ungar. I just wasn't 6 su re for that, in terms of the super majority, a 7 su per majority for what? Are we talking in 8 ge neral, including for the final product, that 9 tw o-thirds would be considered consensus? 10 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, because the way I'm 11 en visioning this is that you're going to have a 12 nu mber of issues that we're going to be 13 di scussing, right? So as we're going and as we're 14 wo rking through, if we need formal agreement on 15 so mething, we're going to be asking, all right, 16 wh ere's the consensus, the final consensus vote? 17 Le t's see where you're at on that, and that's 18 wh ere we're going to be striving to get that 100 19 pe rcent, but at a minimum that two-third majority. 20 MR. ROY: Robin Roy again. What comes 21 wi th that is an agreement from the members that 22 th eir organizations will not have a legal action,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 61 1 wi ll not contest the proposal, or the proposed 2 ru le? Is that - - that comes straight through it? 3 Ok ay. Just to be clear. 4 MR. RAMIREZ: Perfect. I say perfect, 5 bu t I'll just back it up a little bit; almost 6 pe rfect. Right? Your question was great; I just 7 ne ed for you to throw that thumb down because 8 ot herwise that's what I was talking about with the 9 st eamroller, right? I don't see any thumbs down, 10 I' m going -- 11 MR. ROY: That's why I was asking if it 12 co uld be a bit more formal on such a weighty 13 ma tter. My thumb won't be done as long as I'm 14 co nfidently taking everybody's pulse here. I'm 15 re ally happy with it, I think it's fine; I think 16 it 's really workable, but -- 17 MR. RAMIREZ: So let's be clear on that, 18 le t's take it -- this is the consensus final. 19 Le t's see a show of thumbs with the memo of two20 th ird majority. Okay. So that's sideways so 21 we 're good. Okay. So thank you. 22 MR. ROY: That makes me very happy.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 62 1 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: It also means 2 th ough, it's not going to be just a struggle for 3 tw o-thirds; we're working for 100 percent. 4 Ev eryone be heard and work though. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So -- yes? 6 MR. LUTER: Just one comment. I would - 7 - and I'd ask John in previous negotiated rule 8 ma kings, how often are you right at two-thirds? 9 My guess is if one-third of the folks here 10 st renuously just disagree with something, there's 11 go ing to be adequate discussion to vet out exactly 12 wh y, and maybe some reconsideration given. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, I will tell you 14 we 're going to be doing those temperature checks. 15 Be cause again, we want to try to get you as close 16 to 100 percent as possible, and if those -- if 17 th at -- let's say a third in this case are no, we 18 ne ed to have some more dialogue, right? 19 So we want to make sure that everyone 20 ha s an opportunity to not only discuss it but 21 of fer alternatives. If your thumb is down, we're 22 go ing to be calling on you; offer an alternative.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 63 1 Le t's discuss it. 2 MR. LUTER: My apologies; that was Rob 3 Lu ter with Lippert Components. If I can get that 4 de merit back? 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Thank you. 6 MR. CYMBALSKY: So just to answer your 7 qu estion -- John Cymbalsky, DOE. So that's 8 ex actly right. So the process, when an idea is 9 fi rst floated, there's probably several no's, and 10 th en the discussion. In every case, got the 11 ye s's. There was -- in the commercial cert there 12 we re like 105 of these things; there was only one 13 no vote across all 105, believe it or not. 14 So it took lots of time to get everybody 15 to that position, but as Javier said, I think 16 ev eryone here wants to get to the all yes's, but 17 ab sent that, the super majority, yeah. 18 MS. STARKEY: Lois Starkey, MHI. Just 19 cl arification on the -- when you do take a vote, 20 or a consensus, what about the people on the 21 ph one? 22 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: If they're voting

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 64 1 th ey get to vote. 2 MR. CYMBALSKY: So we did get the one 3 me mber that is on the phone put thumbs up for 4 th is. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Excellent. So you 6 kn ow what, I like that question. So we're going - 7 - let's tighten it up just a little bit. 8 So Emily, and folks on the phone, if 9 yo u're a voting member, you'll let us know if 10 so mebody is an objection. 11 MS. MARCHETTI: Okay. Sure. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Anything else? All right. 13 Le t me pop up the ground rules. You have -- I'm 14 go ing to give you a couple of minutes to look in 15 yo ur packets there; towards the back are the -- 16 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: The very last -- 17 MR. RAMIREZ: -- draft ground rules, and 18 we 'll throw them up here as well. 19 I'll stay over here in case there's any 20

-- you know, what, these are fairly standard 21 gr ound rules. 22 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: These ground rules

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 65 1 ha ve been used for other Department of Energy 2 AS RAC working groups, so it's -- but obviously if 3 th ere's a concern, we want to deal with it, 4 be cause this how we'll be operating in this 5 wo rking group. 6 So we want to give you a few minutes to 7 re ad them, if you have questions, and then to go 8 ov er them. 9 Has everyone finished, or do you need a 10 fe w moments? If you need a moment just let me 11 kn ow. Okay. 12 Well, a couple of things; first, we just 13 go t an email so things are working in real time, 14 fr om Jeremiah Freeman, who is helping staff 15 re sources, who says, "Good morning, during this 16 mo rning's portion of the meeting it was requested 17 th at you have access to term sheets from past 18 wo rking groups. Attached are the term sheets from 19 AS RAC's two previous working groups". So the 20 co mmercial HVAC and the Industrial Pumps. So you 21 wi ll have those. They've just been sent via 22 em ail.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 66 1 MR. RAMIREZ: That's impressive. 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes. If you need 3 co pies, let us know also. 4 What I'd like to do now is now that we 5 ar e used to the thumbs up/thumbs down, is just to 6 go through the ground rules, since these will 7 ac tually be governing how we operate. 8 So starting with number one, the goal of 9 ma nufactured housing negotiated rule making 10 wo rking group. It's to reach consensus on a 11 re commended set of energy efficiency standards for 12 ma nufactured housing, decisions reached by the 13 wo rking group are going to be reported ASRAC 14 du ring an open meeting and ASRAC will openly 15 de liberate on the working group's recommendations 16 an d reach consensus as defined by the committee on 17 a formal recommendation to DOE. 18 How do you feel about that? Thumbs up? 19 An y -- okay. That was harmless, right? Okay. 20 Moving along. Participants. Interests 21 re present any interest that would be significantly 22 af fected by the rule may be represented in the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 67 1 ne gotiations. Okay? Everybody? 2 Parties to the negotiations; the working 3 gr oup consists of those individuals whom the DOE 4 ha s appointed and nominated by affected interest, 5 an d each organization or interest caucus that is 6 di rectly represented on the working group shall be 7 de emed a party to the negotiations. Okay? 8 Working group members; each working 9 gr oup member appointed by DOE agrees to serve 10 un til the dissolution of the working group, and we 11 pr omise not to keep it forever -- all right. 12 Un less that member becomes unable to serve, 13 re signs, or ceases to maintain the 14 re presentational requirements. All right? Make 15 su re -- 16 Alternatives for working group members; 17 ea ch party to the negotiations may designate an 18 al ternate working group member, and alternates may 19 su bstitute for the working group member in the 20 ev ent a member can't attend a session. 21 Only working group members may vote on 22 co nsensus recommendations, and any alternate

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 68 1 ca sting a vote shall do so on behalf of the 2 wo rking group member, and not as a representative 3 of his own organization. 4 Any questions? Yes, Manny? 5 MR. SANTANA: Manny with Cavco. 6 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes. 7 MR. SANTANA: Can an alternate be on the 8 ph one if the member is at the meeting? 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes, an alternate 10 ca n be on the phone; only one can vote, though. 11 MR. SANTANA: Okay. 12 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yeah, an alternate 13 ca n be -- I think we have some maybe on the phone. 14 MR. CYMBALSKY: So just to clarify, 15 an yone from the public can be on the phone at any 16 ti me. 17 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Right. 18 MR. CYMBALSKY: Including alternates. 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: But the alternate - 20

- 21 MR. CYMBALSKY: Can't vote. No double 22 vo ting.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 69 1 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yeah, only one vote 2 pe r organization. Yes? 3 MR. TOMPOS: David Tompos, NTA. Can we 4 se t that alternate at any time through the 5 pr ocess? We don't need to assign one now, right? 6 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Right. That's 7 ri ght. 8 MR. TOMPOS: Prior to the meeting? 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: But one would hope 10 yo u would brief the alternate. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: At the beginning we're 12 go ing to make sure that we know who the voting 13 me mbers are. So everyone that's seated here at the 14 ta ble is a voting member, and we have three folks 15 th at are voting members that are on the webinar. 16 So in this case there's actually 18. 17 Yeah, Ishbel? 18 MS. DICKENS: And just to turn that 19 ar ound, given that I'm probably not going to be 20 tr avelling from the West Coast to all of these 21 me etings, is it all right for my alternate to be 22 he re physically while I'm on the phone just

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 70 1 li stening in? 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes. 3 MS. DICKENS: Okay. 4 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: But still only one 5 vo te. Okay? And just work on who it is, on that 6 sc ore. 7 Yes, Mark? 8 MR. WEISS: Mark Weiss, MHARR. I'd like 9 to ask DOE to disclose all applicants for the 10 co mmittee, including people who were not accepted 11 fo r membership, in the interest of full 12 di sclosure. 13 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Response? 14 MR. CYMBALSKY: Sure, yeah, we'll look 15 at that. 16 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yeah, John just 17 sa id yes. 18 MR. WEISS: I have some general 19 qu estions, and also some more specific questions; 20 I think I'll wait until you get to the area that 21 I' m most interested in. Thank you. 22 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. But in terms

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 71 1 of -- does everyone understand how the alternates 2 wo rk? We need to know who it is, but -- and we 3 wo uld hope you'd brief that person. 4 We really would love to have the same 5 pe ople, if possible. You know how face to face 6 al so works better, but we understand people have 7 ve ry busy schedules. Okay. 8 So now, additional interests; additional 9 or ganizational interests may join the working 10 gr oup after negotiations have begun only with the 11 co ncurrence with the working group, which is the 12 wh ole group. What's your view? 13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Inaudible 14 1: 14:36). 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes, sure. 16 Co ncurrence, agreement? 17 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 100 percent 18 ag reement or -- 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Or consensus, yes. 20 Co ncurrence in this instance means consensus as 21 de fined by the group, which is two-thirds. Okay. 22 Th ank you. And we'll change that so -- thank you.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 72 1 Attendance and participation at 2 me etings; attendance, each working group member 3 ag rees to make a good faith effort to attend every 4 se ssion of the negotiated working group, and 5 at tendance and voting may be by telephone or other 6 el ectronic means. 7 In addition, the working group's members 8 al ternate agrees to make a good faith effort to 9 at tend all meetings and the represent the interest 10 at any meeting the member is unable to attend. 11 Ok ay? Any questions? All right. 12 Participation; only working group 13 me mbers or their alternates have the privilege of 14 si tting at the negotiating table, and of speaking 15 fr om the floor during the negotiations without 16 wo rking group approval, except, and I'll read the 17 th ree exceptions. 18 Any working group member may call upon 19 an other individual to elaborate on a relevant 20 po int. Working group counsel, which we see over on 21 th e table there, may raise and address appropriate 22 po ints and, C, any person attending the working

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 73 1 gr oup members may address the working group if 2 ti me permits, or file statements with the working 3 gr oup. 4 Any discussion or can we all agree on 5 th at? Keith? Okay. All right. 6 Constituent's interests; working group 7 me mbers are expected to represent the concerns of 8 th eir interest group to ensure that any agreement 9 de veloped by the working group is acceptable to 10 th e organization or caucus, which the working 11 gr oup member represents. Okay? All right. 12 Okay. I should ask about our folks out 13 on the electronic highway? 14 MS. MARCHETTI: No objection. 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. Thank you. 16 Th ank you and thank Emily. 17 Okay. Decision making; consensus. The 18 wo rking group will operate by consensus and 19 in stead of e.g., we'll just say a super majority 20 of two-thirds of the parties to negotiations 21 pr esent and voting. 22 Concurrence will be assumed absent over

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 74 1 de cent, evidenced by a negative vote. Abstentions 2 sh all not be construed as a negative vote. All 3 ag reements reached during the negotiations are 4 te ntative and may be made by the members present 5 at the meeting, or their alternates who attend a 6 me eting in their stead until the working group 7 re aches a final decision that is binding on the 8 pa rties. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: Take a look up on the 10 bo ard; I changed that first sentence to clarify 11 wh at we had put on there. It was slightly 12 di fferent than Eileen had stated, so -- 13 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Oh, okay. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: The working group will 15 op erate by consensus of a two-thirds super 16 ma jority of the parties. 17 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. So we'll 18 ch ange that as you had -- 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, that is the verbiage 20 ri ght there. 21 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. Is that 22 ag reeable? Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 75 1 Subgroups -- almost done -- I'm a New 2 Yo rker, I can really talk fast, but this is 3 im portant. 4 Subgroups; one, subgroups may be formed 5 to address specific issues and develop information 6 fo r, advise, and make recommendations to the 7 wo rking group. Although each party may designate a 8 me mber of each subgroup, the membership of each 9 su bgroup should consist of no more than 15 people. 10 Other individuals who the working group 11 be lieves would enhance the functioning of a 12 su bgroup, or representatives of interest that 13 wo uld be significantly affected by the topics 14 ad dressed by the subgroup, but which are not 15 ot herwise represented on the negotiated working 16 gr oup, may also serve on that subgroup. 17 Not all organizations or interest 18 ca ucuses represented on the negotiated working 19 gr oup need to participate in each subgroup. 20 Whether we have subgroups is another 21 is sue, but if we do that's -- I want to hear how 22 yo u feel about that.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 76 1 MR. DENNIS: I just have a question. 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Sure. All right. 3 Ke ith first, and then Ishbel. 4 MR. DENNIS: The word party is used in 5 he re and I think it's going to be more of an issue 6 to wards the end, but party is that just us as the 7 pe rson on the working group or is that supposed to 8 be our entire organization? 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Get a 10 cl arification. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: We would need 12 cl arification on that, but the way -- my initial 13 th inking on that would be that the group here, but 14 yo u are representing your organization. Right? 15 Bu t we can look into that to make sure. 16 MR. DENNIS: Okay. I'll bring it back 17 up where it's more relevant. 18 MR. DENNIS: (Inaudible). 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Parties in negotiation? 20 Ok ay. That's all of you. 21 So we do have clarification, it is all 22 of you. When we say parties, it's all of you.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 77 1 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: So the party is the 2 or ganizational member. 3 MR. DENNIS: So not our whole 4 or ganization. 5 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: It's you 6 re presenting the organization. We can make that 7 cl earer. Okay. And then -- yes, Ishbel. Sorry. 8 MS. DICKENS: Sorry. I just wanted -- 9 I' m curious about the process. Other individuals 10 wh o might be invited to a subgroup meeting, is 11 th at just anyone we want to bring, or do we have 12 to have approval from the rest of the subgroup 13 me mbers before inviting them, or how -- there's 14 no thing that really defines that process. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: You all are the ones that 16 if necessary will form the subgroups, but that's 17 so mething that we all discuss and work out if we 18 ne ed it. We may not even need it. 19 MS. DICKENS: Right. No, I understand 20 ho w we would form the subgroup; I'm just curious 21 ho w other individuals who are not part of the 22 wo rking group or the subgroup are invited to

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 78 1 pa rticipate. There's no process for that part. 2 Ma ybe the subgroup just decides; I don't know. 3 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Well, let me ask 4 Jo hn. 5 MR. CYMBALSKY: John Cymbalsky, DOE. So 6 ty pically the subgroups who are off on their own - 7 - I don't want to say it was the Wild West, but 8 th ey basically were a caucus that they formed, and 9 if they brought in other people to help them with 10 an alysis, we wouldn't have known that. 11 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: So the subgroup 12 de cides, I guess, you could bring in who you -- 13 MR. CYMBALSKY: What they would do is go 14 of f and then come back to the main working group 15 he re and present their analysis and/or findings, 16 or position on a certain issue as the subgroup, 17 wh ich are members of this working group, 18 of ficially. 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Did that answer 20 yo ur question? 21 MS. DICKENS: Yeah, it's just that 22 (s imultaneous speaking) --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 79 1 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: No, that's a good 2 po int. Sure. The subgroup itself decides. 3 Yes? 4 MR. LUTER: Rob Luter from Lippert. 5 Ju st an observation, based on the rules as they're 6 la id out, I don't believe this would preclude any 7 of from brining in a third party. The public's 8 in vited. An expert on a particular bit of 9 mi nutia, or whatever, to speak, is that correct? 10 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes, you could 11 br ing in anyone. 12 Yes, Mark? 13 MR. WEISS: I just want to be clear on 14 th e subgroups issues. So the subgroup is not 15 ne cessary formed by agreement of the full 16 co mmittee? The subgroups constitute themselves? 17 MR. CYMBALSKY: So here's how it works - 18 - sorry. The working group committee -- let's say 19 th e issue is window -- U-factors of windows. Just 20 ma king this up right now. And the working group 21 fe els that a subset of this group could go off and 22 di scuss issues and maybe come up with an

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 80 1 ne gotiating position on what the U-factor of the 2 wi ndow should be. The working group, the main 3 wo rking group, will say okay, X, Y, Z, and AA, 4 pl ease go off as a subgroup and come back with the 5 pr os and cons of whatever it is. That's how it's 6 wo rked in the past. 7 Now, whether or not those four people 8 re lied on consultants, or colleagues; there's no 9 wa y of knowing that. The subgroup worked sort of 10 au tonomously based on being created out of this 11 wo rking group. 12 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: So to answer Mark's 13 qu estion though, this committee creates the 14 su bgroups? 15 MR. WEISS: That's right. 16 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: So the overall 17 au thority, because they're subgroups, but the 18 me mbership of the subgroup doesn't only have to be 19 me mbers of this committee. Does that -- okay. 20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right. And generally 21 ho w it's worked is, again, it was the subgroup was 22 ba sed on people volunteering, or based on their

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 81 1 ex pertise to do that. 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: True. When we get 3 in to, today or tomorrow, on the scope of issues, 4 th ere may be issues that are appropriate for 5 su bgroups, there may be -- that everyone wants to 6 be involved in it, and that will be the kind of 7 de cision that this whole group would make. 8 So I'm assuming this is okay, that -- 9 wi th that explanation? All right. 10 DOE will provide appropriate support for 11 th e working group and the subgroups, including a 12 se nior economist. I think we have two here. 13 Se nior technical staff, clerical support, counsel, 14 an d so forth. I'm assuming that's -- 15 Subgroups are not authorized to make 16 de cisions for the working group as a whole, and 17 de cisions to forward a report of a subgroup to the 18 ne gotiated working group shall be made with the 19 co ncurrence of all subgroup members who are 20 pr esent at the meeting where the decision is made. 21 I think here concurrence also means 22 co nsensus. Is that all right? Okay. All right.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 82 1 Four, subgroup meetings will be held 2 be tween the full sessions and will be scheduled in 3 th e same location and time whenever possible. All 4 wo rking group members will be notified of all 5 su bgroup meetings. 6 Yes? Mark, do you have a question? 7 MR. WEISS: Yes, this is an issue that's 8 co me up in other contexts. The subgroup meetings, 9 ar e they public as well, just like the meetings of 10 th is main committee? 11 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: I don't think so. 12 Di d John just leave? Yeah, I don't think the 13 su bgroup are considered part of the FACA, per say. 14 Do they -- the question was, do they 15 ha ve to be put in the Federal Register, a subgroup 16 me eting? No? Okay. 17 MR. WEISS: But once -- when they're 18 co nvened are they public, and members -- 19 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. 20 MR. WEISS: Okay. 21 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: And they're not 22 pu blic -- well, they're not -- you can decide

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 83 1 wh o's there. It's not open to the public. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: The way I understand it, 3 th ey're going to bring -- the subgroup's going to 4 br ing that recommendation to us, so whatever that 5 fi nal outcome is, will be here. 6 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: But its 7 de liberations can be private. 8 MR. WEISS: I understand, but oftentimes 9 th e actual meat of the deliberations is what 10 oc curs in the subgroup in other contexts that I'm 11 fa miliar with. 12 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. Is this 13 ag reeable? What are -- John? Mark? 14 MR. WEISS: Well, my position, in that 15 ot her context I'm referring to, and specifically 16 th e Manufactured Housing Consensus Committee has 17 al ways been regardless of FACA and its 18 re quirements, that all subgroup committee and 19 su bgroup working groups should be publicized to 20 me mbers of interested parties can participate if 21 th ey wish, and those parties should have an 22 op portunity to make their -- at least provide

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 84 1 in put, even to subgroup or subcommittees. 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: So what does the 3 gr oup think? Do we have consensus? Okay. 4 Okay. This one I think we'll all agree 5 on . Discontinue if unproductive; the working group 6 ma y discontinue negotiations at time if they do 7 no t appear productive. Agreement? 8 Then deadline for negotiations; 9 ne gotiations will terminate by September 30th, 10 20 14, unless the DOE and ASRAC decide to extend 11 th e deadline. 12 Every reasonable effort will be made to 13 co nclude negotiations and report a consensus term 14 sh eet to ASRAC by September 30th, 2014. 15 Okay. All right. Now, on agreement, 16 te rm sheet, and supporting analysis; any agreement 17 re ached by the working group on recommended 18 st andards for manufactured housing will take the 19 fo rm of a written statement that will be signed by 20 al l parties to negotiations. 21 It is anticipated that the agreement 22 wi ll include a written statement that includes; A,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 85 1 a term sheet outlining the significant terms of 2 th e proposed rule, and B, supporting analysis as 3 ne eded to explain and justify the agreed terms 4 fr om a legal, engineering, and economic 5 pe rspective. 6 DOE staff will be responsible for 7 tr anslating this term sheet and analysis into the 8 la nguage of a proposed rule, it's supporting 9 pr eamble, a regulatory impact analysis, and all 10 ot her appropriate materials necessary for the 11 pu blication of a notice of proposed rule making. 12 Any -- what is -- how do you feel? 13 Ok ay? 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Let's see the thumbs. 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Thumbs? Okay. 16 St atement is a basis for a Notice of Proposed Rule 17 Ma king. DOE agrees to use the written statement, 18 an d any recommended standards as the basis for 19 No tice of Proposed Rule Making to the maximum 20 ex tent possible, consistent with the Agency's 21 le gal obligations. Okay? 22 Response to public comments; DOE will

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 86 1 co nsider all relevant comments submitted 2 co ncerning the Notice of Proposed Rule Making, and 3 wi ll make such modifications in the proposed 4 st andards, and its preamble, as are necessary when 5 is suing a final standard. Yes? Okay. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You missed one. 7 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: I missed one? Oh, 8 I' m sorry. Which one did I miss? 9 (Simultaneous speaking) 10 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: C? No negative -- 11 th ank you -- it wasn't on purpose. You're just 12 ch ecking here -- 13 MR. RAMIREZ: That's fast. 14 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: What a great group. 15 Ok ay. C, no negative comments, except against the 16 fa cilitator. All right. 17 Each party agrees not to file negative 18 co mments or speak negatively on the proposed 19 sc hool district or its preamble, to the extent 20 th at they have the same substance and effect as 21 th e term sheet. Yes? Mark? 22 MR. WEISS: My questions pre-suppose

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 87 1 no thing, this is just a matter of due diligence. 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Sure. 3 MR. WEISS: Two questions. One general; 4 on e specific. Generally, where do these ground 5 ru les come from? Are the statutory, regulatory, 6 po licy, or just simply by agreement of this 7 co mmittee? What's the basis for them? 8 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Well, these have 9 be en taken from other ground rules of other DOE 10 co mmittees. But -- 11 MR. WEISS: Okay. So they're binding to 12 th e extent that we agree to be bound by them? 13 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes. 14 MR. WEISS: Okay. Specific questions, 15 an d this pertains to C as well as E and F. 16 Pa rties in dissent from the final vote; what is 17 th eir position vis-a-vis comments and court 18 ch allenges, and so forth. I mean, I understand if 19 yo u're in consensus, a member of the consensus, 20 yo u wouldn't obviously want to oppose what you 21 ju st agreed to, but if you are in dissent, what is 22 th e situation with that? I don't see that

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 88 1 sp ecifically addressed here. 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Where did he go? 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Kavita's going to -- 4 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Kavita Vaidyanathan, 5 DO E General Counsel Office. 6 The no negative comments, we -- it is a 7 co nsensus group, so if the group comes to a 8 co nsensus we expect that all working group 9 me mbers, even if you disagree with the group, that 10 yo u would not provide any negative comments, or 11 ha ve any negative positions on the proposed rule 12 ma king. 13 MR. WEISS: (Inaudible) challenge that 14 on due process grounds? 15 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Not that I know of, 16 bu t I can look into it. 17 MR. WEISS: There's always a first. 18 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes, Keith? 19 MR. DENNIS: I have a question on this. 20 So I mean, if something comes out where there's a 21 co uple of strong people who don't agree with 22 so mething in the consensus, I think you could get

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 89 1 ar ound this a lot of ways, you know, looking -- I 2 me an, what's negative? What has the actual same 3 ef fect as a term sheet? 4 I think that putting something in the 5 Fe deral Register and saying this informational, 6 an d by the way, we didn't agree; that's not going 7 to be the same effect as what's in -- that the 8 te rm sheet has. 9 The party -- I'm reading the definition 10 of party, and you know, I think we tried to 11 cl arify but there's an or in there, and it's real 12

-- I mean, I don't know that if there was 13 so mething that was really bad, that we -- you 14 kn ow, that we could agree that our whole 15 or ganization up to the CEO would decide not to 16 ma ke any comment that might be construed negative 17 by other people. 18 So it's kind an uncomfortable thing to 19 sa y that -- you know, I mean, that we're all in 20 go od faith not going to do this, but it just seems 21 li ke a very fluffy kind of statement to agree to, 22 be cause it could be construed that we were in --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 90 1 yo u know, by the way, we're in the majority, we 2 re present 900 co-ops, here's why, it goes out in 3 th e Federal Register, and somebody says, well, you 4 di dn't agree to this. 5 So I don't know, it -- just for 6 di scussion, it make me a little uncomfortable to 7 sa y, you know, on behalf of our organization, no 8 ma tter what happens here, we won't say anything 9 th at could be construed negative, and I think 10 th ere's probably due process consideration. 11 I'm not sure, but that one out of 12 ev erything here seems -- and maybe to come seem a 13 li ttle bit more difficult than some of the others 14 in here. 15 MR. WEISS: If I could make a statement 16 fu rther, my question, I've looked at the 17 Ne gotiated Rule Making Act and I would just say in 18 re sponse to the statement by General Counsel's 19 Of fice, I find it extraordinary without some 20 st atutory or regulatory basis, that we're 21 es sentially deemed to have waived our right to 22 ob ject in what will become an Administrative

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 91 1 Pr ocedure Act rule making, simply by participation 2 in the committee, even if we are dissent. 3 I'm simply saying that now, that's -- 4 li ke I said, my -- it pre-supposes nothing, but 5 it 's due diligence, and now we're without 6 pr ejudice to further steps, depending on what 7 be comes necessary. 8 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. First -- 9 th ank you -- Richard? 10 MR. POTTS: Richard Potts. Is what 11 we 're going through right now, is this official 12 vo ting, is it just kind of a formality? You know, 13 we 're thumbs up, thumbs down? I mean, if we don't 14 ag ree to any of these lines, is it -- I mean, does 15 it get stricken from the process, or is it -- I 16 me an, are we bound by this if we're participating 17 in the process? 18 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Well, I think now 19 we are trying -- 20 MR. POTTS: Or are we just practicing? 21 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: No, no, this wasn't 22 (s imultaneous speaking) --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 92 1 MR. RAMIREZ: No, we've been live for a 2 wh ile. 3 MR. POTTS: Okay. Well -- 4 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: No, we've been live 5 fo r a while, but we haven't really hit a big -- a 6 co ncern, a major concern, until probably now -- 7 MR. POTTS: Well, it sounds like C, E, 8 an d F -- 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes. 10 MR. POTTS: -- you know, if we don't 11 wo rk through these line -- will they be stricken 12 if we don't get our -- 13 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Well, I think what 14 we 'll do is revisit them maybe even after lunch 15 an d look at them again. It's not -- we're going 16 to see what the groups want to be -- 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Also, is there a 18 mo dification? If there a way to modify it to make 19 it acceptable? These are going to be your ground 20 ru les, right, so we want to make sure that we 21 ag ree to them all. 22 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Right. Wait --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 93 1 ju st Rob first and then Manny. 2 MR. LUTER: Rob Luter with Lippert. 3 Do esn't the -- isn't party defined as the actual 4 pa rticipant in the working group? For example, if 5 Ma rk decides to dissent that doesn't mean that 6 so meone else from MHARR couldn't make an issue of 7 it when the term sheet or the rule comes out, 8 co rrect? 9 Is the participant or the party the 10 en tire organization that they represent? 11 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: I think, yes. The 12 pa rticipant is binding the party because that's 13 wh y you've been selected. You're a person, but 14 al so as a representative of that -- 15 MR. POTTS: Well, in a previous clause 16 pa rty was defined as the person that's here and 17 vo ting. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Representing your 19 or ganization. 20 MR. POTTS: Okay. 21 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Here and voting but 22 as a representative of his or her organization.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 94 1 MR. WEISS: Yeah, I think that's 2 ad dressed by the second sentence of 2-B, each 3 or ganization shall be deemed a party to the 4 ne gotiation that's represented. 5 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yeah. So are we 6 ok ay on the semantics there? You're here, like 7 Ma rk, you're here representing your organization, 8 as well as yourself. 9 Manny, you had a question? 10 MR. SANTANA: Yeah, Manny with Cavco. 11 Th e part of the section that refers to the extent 12 th ey have the same substance and effect of the 13 te rm sheet, that means that if the term sheet we 14 pr oduce is different from the final DOE rule, then 15 no negative comments, none of this other stuff 16 ap plies, so we can have counter stance, I guess, 17 to what DOE comes up with if it doesn't match the 18 te rm sheet; is that correct? 19 MR. HAGERMAN: Yes, that's correct. 20 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: That would -- yeah. 21 Di d everyone hear that he said? That if -- did 22 yo u hear what he said, Mark? Yeah, that clarifies

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 95 1 th at. 2 Yes? 3 MR. EZZO: I'm Mark Ezzo, Clayton Homes. 4 So here's my question; what we come up with as a 5 wo rking group goes to ASRAC, and then DOE, and 6 th en DOE publishes a proposed rule. Is it 7 po ssible that parts of the proposed rule are 8 di fferent than what working group came up with? 9 MR. HAGERMAN: I don't think that's ever 10 ha ppened before. 11 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: But it is possible. 12 MR. EZZO: The my follow up question to 13 th at is, the reason I don't like C is because if 14 th ere are negative comments when it's being asked 15 fo r the comment period, those negative comments 16 he lp, I think, DOE and other recognize areas of 17 th e proposed standards that need to be changed. 18 So the problem I have with C is if the 19 DO E proposal comes out and there's things in there 20 th at are different than what we agreed upon, or 21 ha d a consensus upon, I would want to be able to 22 ma ke comments during the comment period and say, I

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 96 1 do n't like this because, and I think that 2 in formation's helpful to DOE in reaching a final 3 ru le. 4 MS. DICKENS: And I think you can. I 5 th ink that's (simultaneous speaking) -- 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, if there was 7 so mething different, then I would think that you 8 ca n make those comments. 9 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Yeah, this is Kavita 10 Va idyanathan of the DOE General Counsel's Office. 11 Th at is correct. If -- I haven't seen that in the 12 ne gotiated rule makings we've done, that the term 13 sh eet that a working group comes out with is 14 di fferent from the proposed rule, but if there are 15 di fferences, and your organization wants to put in 16 co mments on those differences, you are -- you can 17 pu t those in and they don't go against the ground 18 ru les. 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Lois, and -- 20 MS. STARKEY: Just so -- if I 21 un derstand, so what we're talking about here is, 22 is that as a member of the working group if you

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 97 1 ob ject to something, or you didn't support 2 so mething that the working group consensused on, 3 th en according to this, we're not -- we shouldn't 4

-- or under these rules, you can't comment in the 5 Fe deral Register. 6 So you could -- you know, Mark from 7 Cl ayton Homes could not comment on negatively on 8 so mething that was consensused at this group? And 9 I think that's where Mark is concerned. He's 10 co ncerned about the opportunity, or you know, 11 wa nting to negatively -- assuming that MHARR, 12 le t's say for example, and I'm not going to pick 13 yo u out, but is that they did not agree, they were 14 th e one-third of this group that didn't agree. 15 Ma rk is sort of saying he would like the 16 op portunity to comment in the Federal Register. Is 17 th at correct? 18 MR. WEISS: Comment and beyond that. 19 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 20 MR. WEISS: And I just want make sure 21 th at the counsel's comment is included in the 22 re cord of the proceeding, because Mark raised a

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 98 1 se parate issue that is import as well, and I think 2 th at comment is helpful and clarifies that part of 3 it , to the extent that there's a discrepancy 4 be tween the recommendation and then the actual 5 fi nal rule making, which happens in other context 6 th at we've seen. 7 But it doesn't address the issue that I 8 ra ised initially, which relates specifically to C, 9 E, and F. My suggestions, since I am effectively 10 in opposition to this, my suggestion would be to 11 si mply clarify stating that those within the final 12 co nsensus agree not to do these things, but if 13 yo u're outside that final consensus, I think you 14 ha ve to have the right to participate in 15 pr oceedings that are otherwise permissible by law, 16 an d that includes the APA rule making, that 17 in cludes potentially litigation after that, as a 18 ma tter of due process. 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. We hear -- 20 MR. RAMIREZ: There's two separate 21 pi eces there, right? One of them is further 22 ac tion, but the other one is just general comment,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 99 1 an d that was a little bit different at the end 2 th ere. 3 The one that -- I threw up a line up 4 th ere to try to address the part about the 5 co mment, and let me make it a little larger so you 6 ca n see it. 7 Parties are not prohibited from 8 co mmenting on modifications to the consensus 9 re commended term sheet. Right? So if the group 10 ha s a consensus on a recommended term sheet, but 11 th en later on it's something that's modified, you 12 st ill reserve your right to comment on it. 13 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: That's what Kavita 14 sa id. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, so that takes care 16 of that piece, but I heard something just a little 17 bi t different there from what Mark was saying, as 18 fa r as further action, right? Legal action versus 19 co mment? 20 MR. WEISS: It's not just further 21 ac tion; it's comment and any action subsequent to 22 th at.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 100 1 My point is if you're not part of the 2 co nsensus, you shouldn't have to accept in silence 3 a rule making that you disagreed with on this 4 co mmittee, just by virtue of having participated 5 in it, even in dissent. 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, because I struggle 7 wi th some of that because what we're talking 8 ab out, when we're talking about consensus, we're 9 ta lking about the levels of consensus, and that 10 lo west level would be that you would not agree but 11 wi ll support, and then you have the blocking 12 pi ece, and we're going to strive, we're going to 13 do our best -- hopefully this never even comes up 14

-- we're going to strive to get that 100 percent. 15 But in the event that we don't, it might 16 be something less than that, and we've seen it 17 wh ere folks have reached agreement but there's 18 be en one or two people that have said no. Right? 19 That's a consensus recommendation from 20 th e committee, so then how do you -- the part that 21 I' m struggling with, as a facilitator, is then how 22 do you then go and file a lawsuit on it, right?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 101 1 But we'll get back to you. You've been 2 ve ry patient with your hand up, so go ahead. 3 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Lowell, you have a 4 co mment? 5 MR. UNGAR: Yeah, Lowell Ungar. Yeah, I 6 do think there's two separate issues here. The 7 on e that Mark raised -- and that added sentence is 8 fi ne, but I also think right before it, it says to 9 th e extent they have the same substance and effect 10 an d term sheet. If they don't have the same 11 su bstance and effect as a term sheet, it already 12 do esn't apply. So I think the added sentence is 13 co mpletely redundant and unnecessary. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 15 MR. UNGAR: That said, I don't object to 16 it . It also doesn't address Mark's issue, which 17 I' m somewhat sympathetic, and I can see either 18 sa ying specifically if you're not part of the 19 fi nal consensus that C, D, and E don't apply, or 20 el se instead of agrees one could say expects, or 21 so mething a little weaker, to indicate that the 22 in tention is that this be a consensus document and

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 102 1 th at we would then all agree to it, but leave open 2 th at if you don't agree that there may -- you 3 kn ow, it may be hard for the organization which 4 ad amantly opposes the final document to then not 5 do anything about it. 6 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Any other comments? 7 MR. ROY: Yeah, Robin Roy. I think 8 we 're back to the question of what defines a 9 co nsensus, and what the restrictions are. That's 10 wh y I was trying to be very explicit with it 11 ea rlier on, and there's a benefit to having a 12 co nsensus, which the way I would define it is 13 sl ightly different. You don't have to support, 14 bu t it means no one is objecting to it, and that's 15 10 0 percent no objecting. 16 I understand that's a very heard 17 th reshold to get to, and I want to have this group 18 be able to move something to DOE, which reflects 19 th at less than unanimity, but at the same time I'm 20 ve ry respectful of Mark Weiss's position about the 21 mi nority positions being able to take further 22 ac tion.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 103 1 We'll be happy with any of these 2 de finitions at NRDC, this is -- but I think we 3 ne ed to get that very, very clear, and we're not 4 th ere yet. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: But this is a perfect 6 ex ample of hopefully how this process is going to 7 wo rk, right? Where if there are concerns we're 8 go ing to do our best to talk about it, and try to 9 ad dress it, right? 10 So Lionel [sic] came up with the 11 su ggestion up there where it says each party 12 ex pects not to file negative comments, changing 13 ag rees. 14 Does that soften it enough for you, 15 Ma rk? 16 MR. WEISS: In short, no. I appreciate 17 th e effort, definitely. You know, I spent a long 18 ti me arguing about words and what they mean, and I 19 ju st think -- 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Give me a word then. 21 MR. WEISS: The approach I suggested is 22 ve ry simple; if you're not part of the final

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 104 1 co nsensus, and that's -- you know, that's a pretty 2 cl ear yes or no situation -- if you're not part of 3 th e final consensus you have no waived any of your 4 ri ghts. 5 MR. DENNIS: So just to clarify; my 6 un derstanding is if you're -- and just to clarify 7 fo r me, if you are thumbs down and it passes, 8 be cause we've all agreed that that's consensus, 9 yo u're part of the consensus at that point, even 10 if you're thumbs down, right? If it comes out 11 wi th everyone -- you know, more than -- so that's 12 ju st for me a definitional thing. 13 I understand that you're still part of 14 th e consensus even if you're a no, if you define 15 co nsensus to mean all the yes's and no's add up to 16 mo re than two-thirds. Is that -- 17 MR. RAMIREZ: That's exactly what I was 18 sa ying earlier, that's what I was struggling with. 19 Re gardless of what that threshold is, right, 20 un less it's 100 percent. 21 MR. DENNIS: And I want to just kind of 22 bu ild, because I'm very uncomfortable with -- I

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 105 1 me an, I think that when you read a Notice of 2 Pr oposed Rule Making you say, okay, this is a two3 th ird consensus, everyone agreed to this 4 pr ocesses, we agreed. In the case, hypothetical 5 ca se, we dissented, here's why we dissented. 6 It might be like a line on the term 7 sh eet, but you say because, you know, X. You 8 kn ow, this is going to cost X, Y, Z, and this is 9 yo u know, why we're unique, and we want to put 10 th at information out there, so that other people 11 ca n understand the process. 12 I think that kind of restricting it and 13 sa ying two-thirds of the people on this say yes, 14 an d then all of a sudden you're shut down from 15 ki nd of explaining why you may have dissented. I 16 ju st think it's kind of overly un-transparent, and 17 I don't think that there's any problem -- if we're 18 al l coming here to the table and saying we're part 19 of the process, we agreed to be part of the 20 pr ocess, it came out this way; why restrict kind 21 of the information sharing of what happened? I 22 ju st don't see it as productive, in any case.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 106 1 I mean, it's nice not to have anyone say 2 an ything bad about something, but I don't see why 3

-- I mean, who even reads the Federal Register, 4 fi rst of all, but -- 5 MR. RAMIREZ: And you admitted to it? 6 MR. DENNIS: Only when I'm billing 7 ho urly every day. But I just -- I don't see -- I 8 th ink it's overly restrictive. I think it should 9 be nice, that we should say we're part of this 10 pr ocess and we don't ideally want to just be 11 ba shing it, and everything like that, or if 12 th ere's some other way to reach agreement. 13 But just to say I'm not going to make 14 an y comment that might be construed negative 15 be cause I was part of the process, I think that 16 th at would make me - - people would not want to be 17 pa rt of the process. It doesn't make a lot of 18 se nse to me to have that in there. But -- my 19 op inion. 20 MS. VAIDYANATHAN. This is Kavita 21 Va idyanathan, DOE General Counsel's Office. I 22 do n't know if all the parties understand this, or

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 107 1 ma ybe you all do. I just wanted to clarify that 2 be cause these are public meetings, the working 3 gr oup meetings, if there are -- if there is a 4 ne gative vote by one of the parties, or there are 5 co mments that go against the consensus, that will 6 be in the public record and that will be a part of 7 th e public record for the proposed rule making. 8 So the public will know if one of the 9 pa rties was against some part of the proposed rule 10 ma king. I don't -- if that wasn't clear -- 11 MR. DENNIS: So when it says -- so just 12 as clarification again -- I'm sorry -- if we said 13 du ring this process, somebody said we're no voting 14 be cause of this, and then it came out as a rule 15 un der these guidelines, would then not be able to 16 sa y, hey, by the way, go look at the record, we 17 do n't agree to this. 18 Would that be construed as an adverse 19 ac tion, or not support, or a negative comment, to 20 po int out in the record that you had given this 21 in formation -- it just seemed -- I mean, the whole 22 th ing just adds all these gray -- I mean, like I

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 108 1 sa id, any lawyer could get around this and anyone 2 co uld defend themselves for saying pretty much 3 an ything under these -- the way I read these. 4 But it just doesn't seem to be along the 5 sp irit of, you know, transparent rule making 6 pr ocesses to say you're going to participate, and 7 th en by participating you take out your voice if 8 yo u're not one of the -- if you're a minority in 9 th at consensus process. 10 I don't see the productivity in that, 11 bu t again, I guess the question is if you point 12 ba ck to the record would that be considered 13 ne gative, and some people would say yes and some 14 pe ople might say no. So I don't know. 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: We've got a number 16 of people talking. So let me just -- Lionel, and 17 th en Eric, and then Manny. 18 MR. UNGAR: Lowell Ungar. 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Oh, Lowell. Sorry. 20 MR. UNGAR: That brings up a question; 21 yo u said that it will be part of the public 22 re cord; does that mean that when DOE is doing a

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 109 1 ru le making based on the terms of reference, they 2 wo uld regard everything that was said in these 3 me etings as a public comment in that rule making, 4 an d consider it as a comment in the rule making 5 pr ocess? 6 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: That actually I'm not 7 su re of. I would have to look back on how the 8 ne gotiations within the working group were 9 co nsidered within the proposed rule, and I can 10 lo ok back on that and after the break let you 11 kn ow. 12 MR. UNGAR: Then I was going to throw 13 ou t another -- since my first suggestion didn't 14 wo rk, I was going to throw out another suggestion. 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: And I'll call you 16 by your right name. 17 MR. UNGAR: That another way of doing 18 th is would be, again, C, E, and F, I guess that 19 ea ch party that is in concurrence with the 20 co nsensus recommendation on the term sheet would 21 ag ree to these things, and not everybody. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: So you're saying to

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 110 1 re verse it? So instead of the folks that are 2 op posed to it, it's the people that did support 3 it , would not do it. 4 MR. UNGAR: I was saying, yeah, anybody 5 wh o was in agreement -- I mean, it's even hard to 6 do the semantics since it's a consensus, but we're 7 po siting a situation which is perhaps unlikely, 8 th at we declare it's a consensus even though not 9 ev erybody agrees with it, but that each person 10 wh o's in concurrence with that -- with the final, 11 no t the everything going along, but with the final 12 co nsensus on the term sheet, would agree to these 13 th ings. 14 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. Eric? 15 MR. LACEY: Eric Lacey. I had a very 16 si milar comment to Lowell. I've been involved in 17 a lot of settlements, but I've never been involved 18 in this process, and I think what's making some of 19 us uncomfortable, and making me a little 20 un comfortable, is kind of pre-supposing that 21 yo u'll be 100 percent okay with every provision 22 th at's in this settlement, and I don't think

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 111 1 an yone will be 100 percent satisfied, and I think 2 th at's part of the point of this process. 3 I also -- on the other hand, I also 4 wo nder if we can't come to a good agreement, if we 5 ar en't all kind of diving into this with the 6 as sumption that we'll all be bound in some way by 7 th e end. What Lowell had suggested, that maybe 8 yo u apply this only to the signatories of the 9 ag reement. 10 I've been in settlements before where 11 yo u have kind of one class of signatories that 12 sa y, we generally agree with this consensus, we 13 do n't agree with every part of it, but you know, 14 th umbs up overall, and then you have another class 15 th at says, you know, this group agrees not to 16 op pose, and then maybe you have another group that 17 sa ys this group has one or two issues. 18 But again, there's some tension here 19 be cause I'm not sure this process will be 20 ef fective, or even necessary, if folks are allowed 21 to sit back and not have some kind of stake in it. 22 So I don't want to -- I mean, I think I

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 112 1 un derstand the general idea behind here, and that 2 is getting everybody to have a stake in here so 3 th at we work toward achieving a consensus, rather 4 th an just sitting back and taking shots at it, 5 wi th all of your options still available at the 6 en d. 7 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Manny? 8 MR. SANTANA: Manny with Cavco. You 9 kn ow, I think that what's at issue here isn't so 10 mu ch for 4C about the negative comments it's more 11 4E . You know, if -- I think the whole no negative 12 co mment was supposed to get the parties of the 13 co nsensus committee to agree to not take adverse 14 ac tion, and I think that we should maybe strike 4C 15 an d focus on 4E, because we're just going to do 16 th is again a couple bullet points down. 17 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. Scott, did 18 yo u have a comment? 19 MR. DRAKE: No, go ahead. 20 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. 21 MR. WEISS: I'm comfortable with 22 Lo well's suggestion. I mean that's basically what

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 113 1 I' m getting at. 2 The bottom line here is I don't want to 3

-- again, I pre-suppose nothing, but I don't want 4 to waive the rights of my organization based 5 me rely on my participation in the discussions, 6 ev en if I dissent from the final result. I think 7 my putting it that way; the signatories of the 8 fi nal result agree to be bound by the 9 pr ohibitions. I think that addresses the issue. 10 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: I hear you -- I 11 wa nt to just mention something. The thing is, 12 ju st -- the process works to push people closer to 13 co nsensus because those other options may not be 14 th ere -- just for a moment -- and so sometimes 15 so me creative ideas come out whereas possibly you 16 co uld say, well, I don't have to because I can 17 ho ld off and I'm not going to be involved in 18 mo ving this closer because I'll just step back and 19 I' ll be ready to oppose, which is closer to the -- 20 yo u know, like the union president is in the 21 ho spital and he gets a get well card and he said 22 we voted in favor of you ten to three. How do you

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 114 1 fe el? 2 So I think it's -- just to think about 3 th at too, that process tries to get people to try 4 as hard as they can to reach a resolution. 5 MR. WEISS: But the flip side of that is 6

-- and someone, I'm not sure if it was Lowell or 7 Er ic, but the flip side of that is you also don't 8 wa nt to push people out the door. 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: True. 10 MR. WEISS: By saying that, hey, if 11 yo u're a part of this you're stuck. 12 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: I hear you. 13 Did you have some comments? 14 MR. RAMIREZ: I was going to look at a 15 mo dification up here based upon what Lowell had 16 su ggested for voting members in concurrence of 17 sw itching it around. Voting members in 18 co ncurrence agrees to file negative comments, 19 ve rsus each party agrees. 20 Does that -- into Manny's point, where I 21 th ink the bigger battle, it sounds like the 22 co ncerns is more on the ability to take action,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 115 1 ri ght in E? Which I would address it more in E. 2 MR. DENNIS: I'll just say from a 3 pr actical -- why I would have difficulty, I think, 4 su pporting is it say, you know, we represent, like 5 I said, 900 different co-ops; say one of the CEO's 6 ca lls up my CEO and says, hey, we don't -- you 7 kn ow, Keith is a good guy, he's trying his 8 ha rdest, but we have some problem with this, we 9 wa nt to put a comment in, we want you to put a 10 co mment in. I don't have the authority to say 11 th at's not going to happen. 12 I didn't come here with that authority, 13 no w I'm looking at this and I'm saying, okay, now 14 I need to go talk to my CEO, and say, you know, 15 ev erything I do in there is going to bar us from 16 ma king comments that might be viewed as negative. 17 Ba r us from anything that might be viewed as some 18 ac tion to inhibit, and bar us from any lawsuit. 19 I mean, I think I could get away from 20 it , because you know, where it says party there's 21 an or, and it says or part of your organization. 22 I could say I'm in the technical team, and there's

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 116 1 a government relations team, I'm not in the CEO's 2 of fice, and so all this is kind of moot. 3 But again, I just don't think it's a 4 co nstructive way to run these things because it 5 do es, you know, make it seem like, well, maybe I 6 sh ouldn't have even come here if that's -- you 7 kn ow, let everyone work it out and then -- I mean, 8 I don't -- I'm kind of new to these processes, but 9 it puts me in a very difficult situation, a very 10 un comfortable situation, to say on behalf of my 11 en tire organization we won't write any negative 12 co mments even if we don't agree, or don't vote 13 ne gative and find out later that one of the many, 14 ma ny members has a big problem with that, and I 15 ma de a mistake. 16 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes, Ishbel? 17 MS. DICKENS: So maybe we can just sort 18 of take a breath here and think about things a 19 li ttle differently. 20 We knew we were coming to a negotiated 21 ru le making session, and using the term negotiated 22 se ts it in a different context from other rule

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 117 1 ma king, so there's an understanding that we're in 2 he re to collaborate, cooperate, and to the extent 3 po ssible get to that 100 percent. 4 So I think we have to come in here with 5 a little bit of a different understanding of what 6 we 're doing. We're -- it's the whole what not why 7 th ing. So rather than just sort of play around 8 wi th word- smithing, and looking at these few 9 li ttle sections right now, I'm not sure we can 10 ju st have them pending and move forward a little 11 bi t more with some of the other discussion and 12 ma ybe have all of us -- and maybe just talk a 13 li ttle bit about what negotiated rule making mean, 14 an d why are we here, and what are we hoping to get 15 ou t of it, as opposed to nitpicking some words. 16 Because there will be things absolutely 17 th at we won't all agree on, but negotiated rule 18 ma king is a particular process that's set up to 19 al low us to get as close to 100 percent every time 20 as possible, and I think maybe we need to just 21 so rt of think about that a little bit more. 22 MR. DRAKE: Do we make the consensus --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 118 1 so rry, Scott Drake -- do we make the consensus 100 2 pe rcent? If you're going to bind the one-third 3 th at may possibly disagree with these three C, E, 4 an d F, do we change the consensus to 100 percent 5 an d not worry about that? 6 MR. WEISS: Well, that's one way to do 7 it . 8 MR. RAMIREZ: I think we've got a few -- 9 Ro bert's been pretty patient. 10 MR. LUTER: Rob Luter with Lippert. 11 Ex clamation point on 100 percent, but just an 12 ob servation; do we have so little faith in the 13 re st of this process that we don't think the 14 pu blic comment period can withstand a dissent? I 15 me an, it's a different audience, that this 16 di ssenting opinion is in front, it's either 17 pe rsuasive or it's not. There's going to be a 18 de cision made and we're going to move on down the 19 hi ghway. 20 Nothing's going to prevent anybody from 21 st arting a lawsuit because they don't like what 22 th ey see. Nothing would prevent anyone from

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 119 1 in viting a member of the public to basically 2 ad vocate for their position while sitting here. 3 So why are we really even worried about it? 4 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, let me -- I'm sorry 5

-- go ahead, please. 6 MR. LUTER: Do we feel that when the 7 wo rd gets word out that this dissenting opinion 8 ca me from a participating member, is it going to 9 ca rry any more weight? Probably not. He had his 10 op inion, or she had their opinion in this meeting, 11 th ey weren't part of the group in the affirmative. 12 Ok ay. They get another swing during the public 13 op inion period. If it doesn't work out, it 14 do esn't work out. 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: I heard you. 16 Ma nny? 17 MR. SANTANA: Manny with Cavco. You 18 kn ow, I think -- would it help if we made a 19 di stinction between commenting on the proposal and 20 ot her adverse action, like a lawsuit, or anything 21 li ke that? 22 Why say we can't make a proposed

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 120 1 su ggestion; there's a big step between that and 2 ta king additional action. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Which is E, right? Yeah. 4 MR. WEISS: Just answering for myself, 5 ou r organization, since I raised the issue. 6 Un fortunately, no, I think it has to cover C, E, 7 an d F for us to agree to it. 8 I hate to raise yet another issue, but 9 if it's -- well, it's related to this. 10 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: You're going to -- 11 MR. WEISS: Yeah, it's related to this 12 so I'm going to, and that is as to the procedural 13 ri ghts of dissenters, and again, this pre-supposes 14 no thing, but the procedural rights of dissenters 15 wi thin this process, in other words, is there 16 go ing to be an opportunity within the work product 17 of this committee for a dissenting document? 18 Mi nority report, if you will; whatever it's 19 de nominated. 20 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Eric? 21 MR. LACEY: Eric Lacey. Just trying to 22 th ink outside the box a little bit here, because

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 121 1 it seems like we're kind of running in circles. 2 If you've got -- first, I think the 3 pr ocess won't work unless everybody has a state in 4 it . I think Ishbel put a very good point on that, 5 th at it is a negotiation, and if I know a party is 6 no t negotiating in good faith, I will not 7 ne gotiate with them. If I don't think that 8 th ey're going to agree to something, or that 9 th ey're coming at this with some room to move, so 10 to speak, then they shouldn't be part of the 11 ne gotiation. 12 I think kind of a follow up to that is 13 if you get 90 percent through this process and you 14 de cided you just cannot be okay with the consensus 15

-- let's say your thumb was down on every single 16 th ing when every other person's thumb was up, at 17 th at point could you withdraw from the process, 18 wi thdraw from the agreement, and send off on your 19 ow n. You wouldn't be a signatory to it, you could 20

-- you know, maintain your legal rights, or 21 wh atever. 22 I'm trying to -- I want this process to

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 122 1 wo rk, very much, and I think -- it's hard to agree 2 to all the term sheets before you have the final 3 ne gotiation. 4 Usually in a settlement, that's part of 5 th e negotiation, is what is the term sheet. You 6 ag ree not to challenge it, and so on, and here 7 we 're kind of doing that backwards. But I see the 8 va lue in that, because then you're on the hook a 9 li ttle bit, and people are forced to negotiate, 10 an d I would be more comfortable with that if I 11 kn ew that everybody was in this and had that 12 st ake. 13 Anyway, that's what I'm throwing out 14 th ere, and I'm asking, actually; maybe General 15 Co unsel could fill us in. Would it be an option 16 to withdraw if you felt like your interests were 17 so completely misrepresented by this, by an 18 ev entual settlement, that could you withdraw your 19 na me from the committee, and maintain those 20 ri ghts? 21 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Kavita? 22 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: In the ground rules,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 123 1 in two subsection C, it does enable a working 2 gr oup member to resign from the working group if 3 yo u feel that you can't represent your 4 or ganization, or you feel that your organization 5 is n't being represented fairly, you can decide to 6 re sign. 7 MR. DENNIS: So I think that kind of 8 th ese, kind of, workarounds, like at the last 9 mi nute -- so if somebody really wants to cause 10 pr oblems, they can cause problems. They can drop 11 of f at the last minute and then do a lawsuit 12 an yway. 13 If my organization wants to do a 14 la wsuit, and I said that they -- you know, I had 15 ag reed to this, you can look at this and you can 16 dr ill holes in it, and they'll file a lawsuit and 17 be like this isn't legal anyway. 18 So I think that the best solution would 19 ju st be to say, everyone is working in good faith, 20 li ke it says when we signed up, I think there's 21 pl enty of things saying we're not supposed to be 22 no t operating in good faith, and just get rid of

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 124 1 th ese kind of controversial things that bind us, 2 fr ankly, well over my head in my organization to 3 sa y I'm going to stop our free speech rights on 4 No tice of Proposed -- I mean, it's something that 5

-- it's just -- it doesn't seem necessary, it 6 do esn't seem productive, and seems to just kind of 7 be a little bit out of place, I think, for what 8 we 're trying to do. 9 So I would suggest just some 10 as pirational language that we're all here 11 ne gotiating in good faith, and the intent is to, 12 yo u know, go with the consensus. 13 But to try to, like, add something that 14 fe els like legalistically binding our whole 15 or ganization to not comment, or do anything, seems 16

-- and when it's so fluffy that anything -- you 17 co uld shoot holes in it legally anyway, or just 18 dr op out at the last minute, or find some other 19 ki nd of strange way to deal with it, it would just 20 be easier just to kind of not have that, for us at 21 le ast. 22 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Mark?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 125 1 MR. WEISS: I would agree with that 2 su ggestion as well. I think that's probably 3 ac tually the most pragmatic thing to do. 4 You know, you talk about good faith, and 5 we 're all here acting in good faith, and 6 ne gotiating in good faith, but an after the fact 7 la wsuit over something like this, by the time a 8 la wsuit gets up and -- if one were to occur, gets 9 up and going and decided, this is the -- this 10 th ings going to be potentially through the 11 pi peline and out. 12 You know, it could take years for a 13 la wsuit just to vindicate the rights of a 14 pa rticipant to this while the train is potentially 15 mo ving. 16 You know, trying to get an injunction is 17 a tall order. So I think we should simply drop 18 th ese provisions and not pre-suppose anything, and 19 al l of us by entering this process agree to act in 20 go od faith. 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Let me -- I'm hearing what 22 th e concerns are, and I think that what you all

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 126 1 ar e talking about would address obviously your 2 co ncerns, but I think that the point that Eric's 3 br ing up then is dropped off the table. Right? 4 Wh ich again is very valid, is realistically you're 5 ge tting two bites at the apple then, right? 6 Let me make this as palatable as 7 po ssible in case my lawsuit doesn't hold up, and 8 th en I'll go file a lawsuit and maybe try to get 9 it even better, right? 10 I think that's kind of along what you're 11 ge tting at there. In any negotiations you want to 12 kn ow, hey, I'm in this thing because I know I'm 13 go ing to be bound to it. 14 Not only that, I think that there's a 15 fe w -- there's going to be quite a few issues, 16 th ere's not -- we're not here to deal with just 17 on e little piece, right? One little rule. 18 Th ere's like a bunch of little subsets of it, and 19 we 're going to have negotiate each issue, each 20 co mponent of it. 21 So a lot of times when we're looking at 22 ne gotiations, you're not looking at, I don't like

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 127 1 th is negotiations, I don't like this deal, because 2 of this one little aspect. You look at it in a 3 br oad context of it. Right? 4 So one thing that I would -- I'm 5 ex ercising, or giving an example, of what are my 6 ru les, right? Address the elephant in the room. 7 I' m willing to throw this out there in front of 8 ev erybody, but one thing that I would suggest here 9 is that maybe we do take a quick break, and the 10 re ason I'm thinking that is because I want to see 11 if there's a possibility to do something along the 12 li nes, where ultimately where the signatories then 13 ar e bound by C, E, an F. 14 Kind of to Eric's point that it is 15 re versed, right? 16 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: There are a few 17 fo lks that have a few comments before this break. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh, sure. Definitely. 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Because this is 20 im portant. I mean, this is how we operate. 21 Now who was it that had -- Rob? You had 22 a comment?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 128 1 MR. ROY: Robin. 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Robin. Well, your 3 pl acard's up -- 4 MR. ROY: I do. There could be others 5 to o. 6 Eric's point, I want everybody here to 7 ne gotiate in good faith, and I expect that 8 ac tually they are. They're putting some fair 9 am ount of effort into it. 10 Back to Ishbel's question, which I think 11 is a fantastic one; what is it we're trying to do 12 he re? There's a reason people have come together 13 he re. 14 My expectation has never been that high 15 of probability that we will come up with a term 16 sh eet. It's always a good probability, but what's 17 mo re important, more fundamentally valuable from 18 ha ving this discussion, is we have this diversity 19 of people who really care about this industry and 20 th ese issues coming out and making their best 21 po ssible case. 22 Now that is really very interesting for

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 129 1 DO E, and Navigant to hear, and to work into some 2 of their analyses in case we can't come up with a 3 co nsensus. 4 So I don't think it's really entirely -- 5 I do take your point, I think it's a really 6 in teresting one, Eric, but I think if we have 7 so mebody who throws out some issue that I care 8 gr eatly about and it doesn't prevail, and my 9 or ganization would like to sue later, or take some 10 ne gative position in the proposed rule, you're 11 go ing to be so much better equipped, because you 12 wi ll have already heard this argument. You're 13 go ing to have headed it off right in that proposed 14 ru le. You'll have heard it and you will have 15 ad dressed, so I'm going to lose. 16 I think that gives a reasonable 17 in centive, and that's why I don't really mind -- 18 so I started off with this question about what 19 ki nd of consensus; I like the idea of having a 20 su per majority not unanimity, bring forward a 21 pr oposal to ASRAC and to the Department. I think 22 th at's really very useful.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 130 1 I think it's really useful also for 2 fo lks that are expressing some concerns, and I 3 th ought would have some concern, with silencing 4 th eir negative opinions. 5 I don't really mind that. I think we 6 ge t what we need from this anyway, and C, E, and F 7 do n't really buy that much. I don't mind these. 8 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: So Keith's proposal 9 is to take them out, is that what I'm hearing? 10 Ju st to use good faith and allow -- that's what 11 I' m hearing. Yeah? 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's this. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. You know what -- 14 I' m sorry; there was more comments? 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: (Simultaneous 16 sp eaking) more comments and then have a break. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Please. 18 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Lois had comment. 19 MS. STARKEY: I'm okay with that too, 20 bu t I would expect, and maybe we need to look this 21 a little closer, that those who do dissent, or do 22 th umbs down come up with an alternative. That's

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 131 1 re ally what I think would be valuable from the 2 no 's, because they have a perspective, and it's a 3 pe rfectly appropriate perspective, but I would 4 li ke to have a really good alternative and make 5 th at clear. 6 I mean, I know it came out and that's 7 wh at we expect when the no's, but I think maybe if 8 we -- maybe there's ground rules here that we can 9

-- we can maybe take five minutes and look at it, 10 an d maybe take those three items out, but really 11 st rengthen the intent that we do try to get 12 co nsensus by the negatives bringing a positive 13 fo rward. 14 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Where there other - 15 - yes? 16 MR. EZZO: Mark Ezzo. One thing we 17 ha ven't talked about that I think is important, 18 an d I think it helps support the recommendation 19 th at we strike some of these, is that the proposed 20 ru le is going to be huge. It's going to have tons 21 of pieces to it and components to it. While 22 so mebody might vote yes or this to the overall

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 132 1 pr oduct, there may be a lot of parts of that they 2 ha ve challenges with still. 3 So I wouldn't want that person to be 4 pr ohibited from making negative comments about 5 th ose parts of the rule that they don't -- they 6 st ill don't agree with. 7 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Any other comments 8 be fore we take a break to think about this? Are 9 th ere comments from the folks listening out there? 10 Oh , here's a comment. 11 Does agreeing to a legal -- I'm sorry -- 12 do es agreeing to A through F legally bind the 13 pa rties? I guess that's for Kavita. Does agreeing 14 to E through -- A through F -- I'm sorry -- A 15 th rough F, E through F is not -- A through F 16 le gally bind the parties, Michael Dubliner. 17 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: I mean -- these 18 gr ound rules are the ones that (inaudible) working 19 gr oup has come up with, and that you agree to in 20 th e working group. For legal representation you 21 wo uld have to talk to your own legal counsel. 22 I mean, I can't tell you -- I can tell

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 133 1 yo u that DOE is going to be bound by these rules, 2 an we're going to go forward with the rules that 3 we agree to, and we're hoping that you all agree 4 to it too. But I can't give you legal counsel on 5 yo ur own -- unfortunately, on your own 6 or ganization. 7 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. Before Mark, 8 an d before the break, I want you to also think 9 ab out what Ishbel said, in terms of why we're all 10 he re, and what a negotiated rule making is. 11 I realize I didn't spend my usual three 12 ho urs going over what's negotiated rule making, 13 bu t it's an attempt to really get all the right 14 pe ople in the room to reach a rule they can live 15 wi th, a better rule than if the Agency just came 16 ou t with notice and comment, and -- because it 17 co uld have exhibit parte talks with everybody. 18 It 's not as good a rule as the one where you 19 ac tually have the people in the room who could 20 ma ke the decisions, everyone here. 21 My only concern, whatever is decided, is 22 th at everyone really wants to push as far as they

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 134 1 ca n to that kind of rule, that actually will be 2 ec onomical and efficient, keep the industry going, 3 ke ep the consumers, etcetera. 4 We've got a lot of goals, that it will 5 wo rk, and my only concern not -- you know, without 6 ag reeing to everything is making sure that you go 7 th at extra mile, as opposed to saying, yeah, I 8 do n't like that; I'll be ready -- I can vote, I'll 9 be in the minority, and you haven't gone that 10 ex tra bit to try to reach it. 11 But my sense is we should spend, what, 12 ab out a half hour to think about this and come 13 ba ck, or do you combine them with lunch? 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, we could break for 15 lu nch here after all comments. We'll squeeze in 16 an y more comments. 17 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yeah. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: But what do you all think 19 of maybe breaking for a little bit of an early 20 lu nch? Nice. 21 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. The reason 22 is , I think this is important. This is the first

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 135 1 ma jor decision you're going to make, and I think 2 it 's important. 3 The other suggestion of going to six and 4 se ven, you'll see they're not as controversial, 5 bu t we can actually go through -- we can even do a 6 ne utral facilitator, that's on page four. We'll 7 wo rk with all the parties to ensure that the 8 pr ocess runs smoothly. The facilitator serves at 9 th e will -- see, the will, of the working group. 10 An d if I mangle anyone else's name, I may be 11 se eing other employment. 12 But anyway, is that agreeable, the 13 fa cilitator? Okay. 14 Now, let me just finish this part, so 15 we 'll just -- meetings on six, the FACA and the 16 NR A here is Negotiated Rule Making Act, as opposed 17 to other issues, and DOE policy, the negotiation 18 wi ll be conducted under the Federal Advisory 19 Wo rking Group Act, and the Negotiated Rule Making 20 Ac t, and the Department of Energy's Negotiated 21 Ru le Making Policy, Open Meetings, negotiated 22 se ssions will be announced in a Federal Register -

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 136 1 - we heard about that -- prior to the meeting and 2 wi ll be open to the public. 3 Meetings summaries; the proceedings will 4 be captured through meeting transcripts and you've 5 me t Natasha, the smiling lady over to my right. 6 Su mmaries of working group meetings will be 7 pr epared by the facilitators for the convenience 8 of the working group. They will be fairly 9 su ccinct. We won't get into all the nuances of 10 th is rich discussion. It will be more of the 11 ag enda and certain issues, if they're been 12 re solved. 13 They could be -- they shall not be 14 ap proved by the working group, and shall not be 15 co nstrued as the official record. 16 In the absence of consensus parties 17 sh all not be bound by positions taken or accepted 18 du ring these negotiations. 19 Oh, this is interesting -- no 20 ph otographs may be taken during the meetings 21 wi thout the approval of the working group. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: You can take my picture.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 137 1 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. So if we 2 wa nt photos we'll make sure all know about it and 3 dr ess appropriately. Okay. Is that all right? 4 Th is part? 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Six A, B, and C. 6 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Six A, B, and C. 7 Ok ay. Then seven, future amendments; working group 8 me mbers may proposed modifications to this 9 do cument with due consideration given such 10 pr oposals. I would assume that's all right. 11 Okay. So we basically have four 4C, I 12 gu ess E and F. I don't know -- D? D says that 13 DO E will consider all relevant comments; I'm not 14 su re that that's controversial. 15 MR. ROY: Robin Roy -- 16 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's not ours -- 17 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: That's their 18 ch oice? Okay. So we'll agree. 19 MR. RAMIREZ: So is D okay then? 20 MR. ROY: Robin Roy, I think we also 21 ha ve a 4G which Lois put on the table, which I 22 th ink was a really wise proposal. A really,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 138 1 re ally smart one that gets to a number of these 2 is sues, and that is for those who are in dissent 3 to be a bit formal in what they're dissenting on. 4 Th at will force a degree of not just throwing sand 5 in the gearbox. 6 So maybe a subgroup over lunch can come 7 up with what the 4G might look like, led my Lois, 8 no doubt. 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: You don't get to 10 ea t. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: So who's going to have 12 lu nch with Lois? 13 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Lunch with Lois. 14 Ye s. Rob? Yeah. 15 MR. LUTER: Rob with Lipper. Just a 16 co mment on D. It suggests that DOE will make 17 mo difications are necessary; who decides what's 18 ne cessary based on the comments? That I guess 19 pr esumes the comments are substantive and 20 pe rsuasive. That's not always the case. 21 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: This is Kavita 22 Va idyanathan --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 139 1 MR. WEISS: This is during the APA 2 pr ocess, right? 3 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Right. So -- 4 MS. DICKENS: So wouldn't DOE just 5 re move that actual section, because we have no 6 co ntrol of what DOE does, and we have no control 7 ov er what the comments are, so I don't think we 8 ca n -- I don't think we should approve or 9 di sapprove this -- 10 MR. WEISS: I think that's what the law 11 is anyway, so -- 12 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: This is what's 13 re quired - - I mean, DOE is required to consider 14 al l comments and make modifications. 15 MR. LUTER: (Simultaneous speaking) is 16 it regarding their consideration, it's regarding 17 ma king modifications as are necessary; do we know 18 wh at as are necessary really means? 19 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: It would be among 20 pr ogram and their technical assistance and general 21 co unsel to decide what's necessary within the rule 22 ma king, and within the statutory confines of the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 140 1 ru le. 2 MR. LUTER: So it's purely 3 in formational, nothing new. 4 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. So is it -- 5 is D agreeable then? 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Is there a harm in leaving 7 it in? 8 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Is there any harm - 9

- 10 MR. LUTER: In this context -- 11 COURT REPORTER: Could you hit the mic, 12 pl ease? Hit the mic. 13 MR. LUTER: I'm sorry. In the context 14 ju st presented, no. 15 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. 16 MR. LUTER: It's -- I have no 17 di sagreement with it. 18 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: So it stays in. 19 MR. LUTER: Yeah. 20 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. So what 21 we 're really talking about now is C, E, F and 22 ma ybe a G to discuss a combination of lunch and

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 141 1 di scussion, and come back at 1:00 o'clock, and 2 we 'll talk about it some more. 3 Yeah? 4 MR. WEISS: Just to close the loop for 5 no w, I just wanted to be clear; I have no problem 6 wi th Lois's suggestion. As my prior question 7 in dicated, I am concerned with the ability within 8 th is process to submit, if you dissent, some kind 9 of comments or report within the process. So I 10 ha ve no problem with that at all. 11 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes, Manny 12 MR. SANTANA: This is Manny with Cavco. 13 Un related to 4C, and regarding the procedure, are 14 we bound by Robert's Rules of Orders, or anything 15 li ke that? 16 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: No. 17 MR. SANTANA: You know, with motions and 18 se cond -- 19 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: No. 20 MR. SANTANA: No? 21 MR. RAMIREZ: We want to get it all out. 22 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: No, we -- just

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 142 1 co mmon sense. That's another book. No, it's not 2

-- we're an informal process. 3 Any other questions before we adjourn 4 fo r lunch and this discussion, and come back -- 5 ye s? 6 MR. UNGAR: Just a comment, not a 7 qu estion. I certainly understand when Mark had 8 sa id earlier, in terms of you may not agree with 9 in dividual things, but I would expect that we're 10 he re trying to -- you know, it won't be a series 11 of contested votes as much as trying to achieve 12 co nsensus, and if people who have to move off of 13 th eir initial positions and not get what they want 14 in order to achieve consensus, and if we've agreed 15 on a product, to go back and now to in another 16 fo rum contest those individual items that we 17 ag reed to something less than what we wanted, to 18 me is exactly negotiating in bad faith. 19 That if we are agreeing, and again, 20 se tting aside what Mark -- situation, which is 21 di fferent then where we don't in the end agree, 22 bu t if we do agree to a compromise, then we need

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 143 1 to stand behind the compromise. 2 That said, I'm fine with taking the 3 la nguage out, or whatever modifications we make 4 th at have been proposed so far, I'm not -- but in 5 te rms of how these discussions go, in the end I 6 th ink we do need to stand behind the compromise 7 an d not try to re-litigate it again in some of 8 ot her form. 9 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Yes? 10 MR. LACEY: From reading the actual NOPR 11 wh en I'm billing hourly, they do like add some 12 co ntext. So if you put a negative comment on a 13 sp ecific aspect, DOE might just kind of couch your 14 co mment in -- like these guys were part of the 15 ne gotiated process, and you know, they could even 16 sa y, you know, they agreed to the overall package, 17 an d then -- they do do that narrative. 18 So, you know, I think that the bogeyman 19 of like the comments changing the rule because 20 so mebody didn't -- I mean, it just seems 21 co mpletely unnecessary. 22 Again, like I think practically

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 144 1 sp eaking, I think nobody could do anything about 2 it if I sent in a comment letter after this was 3 do ne and -- going to arrest me, or -- I mean, you 4 kn ow, so I just think it's not productive, it's 5 no t worth it to kind of have these extra, like, 6 th ings that really in the end really have any 7 fo rce of law, or -- 8 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Okay. Manny? 9 MR. SANTANA: You know, I -- Manny with 10 Ca vco. I think in support of what Eric said a 11 li ttle time earlier, if we don't have some 12 in tention to come up with a negotiated -- with an 13 ac tual rule, and we don't say, well you know, we 14 in tend to comply with C, E, and F. You know, I 15 in tend to have this rule be what I think is the 16 be st rule we can all come up with, you know, all 17 th e stakeholders in the room, and understanding 18 th at it might not be legally binding. So then we 19 ha ve a couple of options, you know, we -- you 20 co uld either resign and then have as many negative 21 co mments as you can, or if you determine that this 22 is n't binding, then you can still have your

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 145 1 ne gative comments. 2 But you agreed to it up front because 3 th is is what you want to try to do in good faith. 4 Yo u want to try to come up with something that can 5 wo rk for everybody, and I think that if you were 6 to look at the room, and try to come up with 7 se cts, you know, there might not be any one sect 8 th at's strong enough, or small enough, to be out 9 vo ted. You know? 10 So I think there's more than five 11 in dividual, you know, segments, so if -- and like 12 I said, for example, just the 15 that are here, 13 th ere probably aren't enough, you know -- there 14 ar en't enough people in one group that all think 15 on e way, and everybody else thinks the other way, 16 th at they're going to get out voted, and there's - 17 - there's at least six of them, seven of them. 18 So I think that you have to be able to 19 ag ree to try this and accept this, just to kind of 20 ke ep this thing going. 21 You know, because we also have an energy 22 ru le to come up with, besides this.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 146 1 MR. RAMIREZ: We're negotiating the 2 ne gotiation. 3 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: All right. The 4 la st word for now. 5 MR. WEISS: Okay. I'm really not trying 6 to belabor this, but addressing what Manny said, 7 ag ain, the flip side of that is if you are a 8 di ssenter why should you have to give up your 9 ri ght to try to persuade others in that final 10 an alysis, that final vote, simply out of fear that 11 yo u might be pulled into something that 12 co nstitutes a waiver of rights you would otherwise 13 ha ve, and that's my concern. 14 If you have concern about that and you 15 dr op out, well you don't have the right you 16 ot herwise would have had to try to bring others to 17 yo ur position. 18 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Well, on that note, 19 I think we've still got to wrestle with this 20 be fore we can move forward. 21 So let's have some lunch. Lunch with 22 Lo is, or lunch with anyone and come back at --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 147 1 MS. STARKEY: I'm not buying though. 2 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: No, she's not 3 bu ying. I heard -- I don't know -- Pam may know; 4 is the cafeteria okay across the street? All 5 ri ght 6 MR. RAMIREZ: There's also a Subway next 7 to the Dunkin Donuts in the basement. 8 MS. BARKAS HOFFMAN: Subway and Dunkin 9 Do nuts. But come back at 1:00, is that -- and 10 we 'll talk about it. Okay. But think about why 11 yo u're here and how we can move this ahead. Okay? 12 So we'll see you at 1:00 o'clock. 13 (A lunch break was taken.) 14 P R O C E E D I N G S 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Well, at lunch 16 ac tually -- 17 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Can 18 yo u take the mic please? 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, sure. Thank you. It's 20 Ei leen Hoffman. Welcome back. 21 At lunch, DOE has come up with some 22 id eas and I think you folks have as well, or have

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 148 1 yo u; have you come up with anything? 2 MS. STARKEY: Well, sort of. I don't 3 th ink we could -- 4 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: 5 Mi crophone. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Microphone. 7 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, Lois or Louise, yeah. 8 MS. STARKEY: In talking to a few of 9 yo u, we don't know if we've come to a consensus on 10 el iminating (b), (d) and (e). 11 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 12 MS. STARKEY: Maybe put them on the 13 pa rking lot. But definitely I think everybody 14 ag reed that we make a strong statement that 15 an ybody who does thumbs down on an issue have a -- 16 an alternative, be able to defend the alternative 17 an d make an effort to convince the rest of us. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh, yeah, we'll definitely 19 al low for that. 20 That's going to be part of the process, 21 ri ght? 22 MS. STARKEY: Yeah, I just want to make,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 149 1 yo u know -- 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Underline it, yeah. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh. 4 MS. STARKEY: -- that that's really 5 un derlined and made clear. 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 7 MS. STARKEY: It's not just a question 8 of "Well, I don't agree," exactly. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 10 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh, no. 11 MS. HOFFMAN: And what was -- when you 12 st arted, what was it you had said, which letters? 13 MS. STARKEY: The one certain question - 14 - 15 MR. RAMIREZ: (Inaudible) yeah. 16 MS. STARKEY: -- (c), (e) and (f), to -- 17 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 18 MS. STARKEY: -- maybe put those in the 19

-- 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Put them in the parking 21 lo t. 22 MS. STARKEY: -- parking lot --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 150 1 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 2 MS. STARKEY: -- for the time being. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 4 MS. STARKEY: I think people -- there 5 we re some -- a few people that spoke here strongly 6 ab out their concerns about it, but aren't willing 7 to give it up right now. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: I see. Okay. We also 9 ha ve Kavita. 10 May I ask you to -- or Joe, you have 11 so me thoughts, too. 12 MR. HAGERMAN: Yes, I had two thoughts. 13 On e is easy, and one we can get into it a little 14 bi t but -- 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Your thing on? 16 MR. HAGERMAN: I think everybody can 17 he ar me, right? So the first -- this is something 18 I took away -- is adding to the term sheet, that 19 th e term sheet -- maybe under 4(a) or a new 4(h), 20 ho wever you want to see that, that the term sheet 21 wi ll include the votes of the vote count, which is 22 ve ry common in the term sheets. The term sheets

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 151 1 th at we emailed everybody, they have the vote 2 co unt on there and the dissenting comments from 3 th e numbers. One thing you will not see on the 4 cu rrent term sheets is any comments on people who 5 di ssented in the vote. That's my first Strawman. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: You -- that was it? 7 MR. HAGERMAN: My second one is -- I 8 th ink Kavita is checked out. I think DOE could 9 fe el comfortable with each party -- 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Is this 4(c)? 11 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah, for -- 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 13 MR. HAGERMAN: -- 4(c), (e) and (f). I 14 do n't know how you want to word this, but non15 di ssenting parties agree to not file negative 16 co mments. 17 MS. HOFFMAN: So -- 18 MR. HAGERMAN: So instead of each non19 di ssenting parties. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: So non-dissenting parties, 21 pe ople who've agreed to it -- agreed to or 22 ab stained. Non-dissenting parties agree to not

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 152 1 fi le negative comments. 2 MR. LUTER: Rob Luter from Lippert. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 4 MR. LUTER: What protections do I have 5 th en if after this is all done I have some 6 ep iphany or something comes to light that wasn't 7 di scussed? 8 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah, so -- 9 MR. LUTER: Now, I'm -- that's off 10 li mits for discussion or dissent? 11 MR. HAGERMAN: Well, I mean, what -- 12 MR. LUTER: Again, no presumptions here 13 bu t -- 14 MR. HAGERMAN: Right. So think about it 15 th is way: we'd hate for you to sit here and vote 16 "Y es" you support everything and then after we say 17

-- after we all reach a consensus on this -- on 18 th e standard for you to walk away from here and 19 sa y, "Well, you know what? That's all junk. I 20 do n't actually -- 21 MR. LUTER: I don't disagree -- 22 MR. HAGERMAN: -- vote for any of that."

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 153 1 MR. LUTER: -- with you. 2 MR. HAGERMAN: It's a little bit not 3 ne gotiating in good faith, right? It's -- 4 MR. LUTER: Is there a mechanism if some 5 ne w fact were to come up after the fact for 6 ad dressing that? 7 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Okay. This is Kavita 8 ri ght now. Then maybe I don't understand the 9 qu estion. So if there's -- 10 MR. LUTER: Let's just say we vote to 11 su pport -- consensus that we support a particular 12 ac tion? 13 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Okay. 14 MR. LUTER: And after the paper's put 15 to gether, something comes to light that suggests 16 th at our decision was perhaps not -- or might have 17 be en differently had this new fact been available, 18 is there a mechanism by which we can voice concern 19 or doesn't or do we have to rely on a surrogate 20 fr om the public to do that on our behalf? 21 MR. HAGERMAN: I think they could submit 22 th at material for public comment --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 154 1 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Yeah, I think we can 2

-- 3 MR. HAGERMAN: -- for consideration. 4 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: I think DOE can live 5

-- can agree to the fact that if there is some new 6 is sue that comes up that changes your opinion on 7 so mething, you can certainly put that in for 8 pu blic comment and we wouldn't consider that 9 ne cessarily as a negative comment that goes 10 ag ainst the Ground Rules. 11 MR. LUTER: Okay. 12 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: But we just want to 13 ma ke sure that we're here because it's a 14 ne gotiated rulemaking. We're kind of here in good 15 fa ith to come out with -- 16 MR. LUTER: Understood. 17 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: -- a consensus and 18 th at if you -- if your organization has a certain 19 vi ewpoint and you decide to come to a consensus 20 an d go away from that viewpoint, that in the end 21 th at you're not going to come back and say, "You 22 kn ow what? Even though I negotiated and I agreed

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 155 1 on this viewpoint, that I'm going to go back to my 2 st ance that we originally had." And that's what 3 we 're hoping that this Working Group can come to. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: So would you like to 5 di scuss the proposal that you heard on 4(h) if it 6 wa s or -- and changing -- I guess it's (c)? 7 And does it also change (e) and (f)? 8 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, the way I had 9 ca ptured it was -- 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively), 11 su re. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: -- on the first one, on 13 (a ), I just added the line that Joe had mentioned 14 as far as the term sheet shall include the vote 15 an d dissenting comments. That's where (a) is 16 ta lking about the term sheet and supporting 17 an alysis. 18 And then (c), (e) and (f) modified to 19 ha ve each non-dissenting party on both -- on all 20 th ree, (c), (e) and (f), yeah. 21 MR. UNGAR: Lowell Ungar. Can I ask? 22 Wh en you mean -- say, "Non-dissenting," are you

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 156 1 ta lking about non-dissenting from the final term 2 sh eet, the whole package, or non-dissenting on 3 ea ch individual issue? 4 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: This is Kavita 5 Va idyanathan. I think we can agree to each issue 6 if that's what the Group -- I think that's what 7 th e Group had concerns about was that if there are 8 is sues that -- overall, they may agree to a term 9 sh eet, but there are some -- there are certain 10 pr oposals within the term sheet that they haven't 11 ag reed that have a dissenting vote on. That's 12 wh at I heard from the Group, but correct me if I'm 13 wr ong. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes, (inaudible). 15 MR. UNGAR: Well, and again, I can live 16 wi th any of the proposals that I've heard so far 17 to day -- 18 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Okay. 19 MR. UNGAR: -- so I -- but again, on 20 bo th of the last two comments, I mean, it seems to 21 me this is a -- referring to negotiating an 22 ag reement here --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 157 1 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 2 MR. UNGAR: -- and in an agreement, we 3 wo n't agree -- you know, we won't like everything 4 th at's in the agreement presumably. And if we 5 ne gotiate an agreement and then each fight the 6 in dividual pieces of the agreement that we didn't 7 li ke, then we haven't actually achieved anything 8 th at -- you know, unless we, in fact, come out of 9 he re with an agreement that we can live with and 10 su pport as a package rather than trying to refight 11 ea ch of the things. 12 There's kind of no point, you know. And 13 I have been involved in appliance standards 14 ne gotiation not -- under ASRAC under a more 15 in formal process where after the fact, after we 16 si gned the agreement, somebody said, "Oh, you 17 co uld have gotten more, that technically, you 18 kn ow, there are information you didn't have that, 19 in fact, you -- you know, you could have argued 20 fo r a (inaudible) case," but, you know, that's -- 21 yo u're always operating under limited information, 22 an d that we abided by what we had agreed to. And

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 158 1 I just -- again, I'm not so concerned about the 2 wo rds. I'm just concerned that this be, in fact, 3 a negotiated agreement and that we come in this 4 in tending to live with the deals we make. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Ishbel? 6 MS. DICKENS: Yeah, I'd like to echo 7 th at. I think the way I understand "non8 di ssenting" in this latest proposal was the people 9 th at were thumbs down. People thumbs up and 10 th umbs sideways are part of the consensus 11 ag reement -- 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. 13 MS. DICKENS: -- for which we need two14 th irds majority anyway. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Correct. 16 MS. DICKENS: And only those who were 17 ve ry negative be opposed and potentially will have 18 to come up with an alternative that we haven't 19 su pported would be the ones that would be allowed 20 to take those stances. 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Mark? Oh, okay. 22 MR. DENNIS: Yeah. I mean, I don't want

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 159 1 to belabor the point too much, but I tend to agree 2 wi th what Robin was saying earlier about, you 3 kn ow, this kind of -- getting to this does not 4 me an that there's no value in having a negotiated 5 pr ocess. 6 If people have negative comments later 7 or have serious issues and, you know, there needs 8 to be -- I think the process of having us all at 9 th e table and working together in good faith, 10 wh ich I think there's aspirational language in 11 ki nd of the signup to this and, also, I think we 12 co uld add aspirational language. 13 But I do think that the non-dissenting, 14 no -challenge kind of signing off right here on 15 po tential actions makes -- you know, as a 16 co nservative organization, makes it more likely 17 th at we'll want to dissent to preserve that right. 18 So when I go brief my boss or the other teams in 19 my organization say, you know, "Here's the case 20 fo r why we should agree to this. It's" -- you 21 kn ow, and they say, "Well, are you then giving up 22 yo ur right to potentially do something later?"

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 160 1 Th at changes the factor of whether we're saying, 2 "O kay. We're going to be much more conservative 3 in dissent." 4 Again, you know, I don't want to say 5 th at that's going to happen or that that's what 6 we 're trying to do or anything like that, just in 7 th at case, that would be kind of part of the 8 de cision-making process. What are we giving up? 9 I think it's unnecessary and again, you 10 kn ow, I still think there's loopholes in all 11 st uff. So I think that kind of adding this -- you 12 kn ow, I think also when you put out the notice to 13 be on the Group, you should say, "By the way, if 14 yo u participate in this, you're giving up your 15 ri ghts to comment or challenge" because in 16 re ality, you could always just sit in the back and 17 gi ve your comments and not be binding yourself to 18 th is and get the same outcome. 19 So, you know, I just think that this is 20 ki nd of overkill and it's also like not really 21 ne cessary to the process and adds this kind of 22 di scomfort element and, also, a conversation that

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 161 1 at least I'm going to have to have is to say, you 2 kn ow, by deciding in this final thing to dissent 3 or not dissent, we're giving up this potentially 4 le gal right, which that's still debatable. But I 5 ju st don't see it as necessary. 6 So it's just -- it added discomfort that 7 I don't think is necessary. I think we're all 8 wo rking in good faith, that's why we're here, that 9 I don't necessarily see why we should be trying to 10 gi ve up kind of due process rights and things like 11 th at, in this context. It's just not worth it to 12 do that. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Any other comments? Yes. 14 MR. WEISS: Mark Weiss, for MHARR. I 15 ag ree with Keith and I think the simplest way to 16 ad dress this is to delete those sections. That 17 sa id, the language that's up there, yeah, in the 18 sp irit of compromise, would be -- I do think 19 ad dresses the concern that I had which pertained 20 pr imarily to the final vote. That's the concern I 21 ha d: do we get to the end of this process and 22 so mehow, you know, be dragged into waiving our

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 162 1 ri ghts post this process? So I think removal is 2 si mpler, but I could live with that in terms of 3 gr adations of consensus. 4 As far as offering alternative, I think 5 th at's problematic. I think a dissenting party 6 sh ould state the basis for their dissent to 7 wh atever extent they deem appropriate. But 8 of fering an alternative on some of these issues 9 mi ght not be practical, probably won't be 10 pr acticable for some of us. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. And let me chime in 12 on a couple things. One of them is: I would want 13 to see if (a) -- if there's a problem with (a). We 14 mi ght get that one done and maybe talk about (c) 15 an d (f). 16 But even with the explanation of, you 17 kn ow, consensus and how it operates, a lot of 18 ti mes we'll do these temperature checks to see how 19 th ings are going and if your thumb is down, we 20 ne ed to make sure that we get that dialog going. 21 An d that's one of the reasons that we say you need 22 to be able to explain why and offer an

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 163 1 al ternative, right? Because it's easy, right? 2 It's easy to -- and I'll maybe give you 3 a little bit of leeway on that in a sense that it 4 do esn't necessarily have to be you either, right? 5 So mebody else in the room could say, "Well, what 6 ab out X, right?" You know, get the Group talking 7 an d problem-solving. And that's what I was 8 ta lking about, the intellectual capital of this 9 ro om. You know, if we can figure this thing out, 10 it 's almost like shame on us, right, that we can't 11 do it with the brainpower that we have in this 12 ro om. If we work at it, we should be able to, 13 ri ght? 14 MR. LACEY: I really don't want to beat 15 a dead horse here. I think I'd be generally fine 16 wi th this direction, but I'd point out that this 17 gi ves a real incentive to dissent on everything, 18 wh ether you're on the high side or the low side. 19 The example I've been using at lunch is: 20 let's say we're debating a number 21 be tween 50, and 100 and a lot of people want 100 22 an d a lot of people want -- some people want 50

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 164 1 an d the Group decides on 75. Well, what's 2 di ssenting? Maybe dissents and says, "It should 3 ha ve been 50. This is what I wanted." Well, that 4 th en forces the other side to say, "Well, we 5 di ssent also, and it should have been 100." And 6 so every time you get a dissenting vote, I'm 7 co ncerned you're going to get it -- and dissenting 8 on the other side. 9 And so I'm wondering if you want to go 10 do wn this direction of, you know, giving kind of 11 sp ecial rights to dissenting parties, as what 12 yo u're doing here, is to maybe include the range 13 th at was discussed on each of these issues. You 14 kn ow, if -- this is the consensus value of 75, you 15 kn ow. The Group considered 150 and this was the 16 co nsensus value. This whole -- the whole business 17 of kind of carving out a special -- 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 19 MR. LACEY: -- kind of second bite at 20 th e apple just for people who dissent seems 21 co ntrary to the whole purpose of reaching of 22 co nsensus.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 165 1 MS. HOFFMAN: So my question is: what is 2 yo ur -- what would your proposal be then? 3 MR. LACEY: I knew you were going to ask 4 th at. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Well, it's one 6 (i naudible). 7 MR. LACEY: I mean, maybe the term sheet 8 sh all include, you know, the consensus, the result 9 of the consensus and the range of values or, you 10 kn ow, range of issues discussed. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Range of options? 12 MR. LACEY: Range of options, something 13 li ke that. I don't know if that works for 14 an ybody. 15 MR. DENNIS: I would say that, you know, 16 th at could -- if we didn't have these terms that 17 we 're doing, that could be something that we could 18 lo ok at in each different section and decide do we 19 in clude a range or do we include not a range and 20 ge t -- again, I think that this kind of thing and 21 th e framework just doesn't need to be there. But 22 if it is, you're right, you're giving more rights

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 166 1 to dissenters and you're giving incentive to 2 di ssent. 3 And, you know, that just -- it seems to 4 me like you're creating all these kind of 5 in centives. And again, having these here, then it 6 gi ves the incentive for people to draw back at the 7 la st minute if they're being, you know, concerned 8 th at somewhere down the road there's something 9 th ey're not thinking about and they're going to 10 gi ve their rights to comment, and it just creates 11 a lot of unnecessary kind of anxiety that probably 12 do esn't need to be there, given that -- we're all 13 ho ping that it doesn't even ever come to this, so 14 we 're hoping this whole discussion's just this -- 15 li ke boogeyman that's out there. But, you know, I 16 th ink for this process, it's -- again, you know, I 17 do n't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't 18 ne cessarily -- relevant or necessary. 19 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. Well, let's 20 ta ke a temperature check on (a). Let me see a 21 sh ow of thumbs on (a) of where you're at on that. 22 Is (a) -- can you approve (a)?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 167 1 (Call for show of thumbs.) 2 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So that was a 3 te mperature check, but it seemed like most the 4 fo lks are okay with that, so let's make it -- 5 ye ah? 6 MR. HAGERMAN: I just have one question 7 ju st for the Group is: the term sheet shall 8 in clude the vote, the range of option and the 9 di ssenting comments. 10 Is that dissenting final comments for 11 th e final term sheet or is that for each provision 12 of the term sheet? I believe it's just the final, 13 ri ght? 14 MS. HOFFMAN: I think it's just the 15 fi nal. 16 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah. Okay. 17 MS. HOFFMAN: I think that's what -- 18 MR. HAGERMAN: I just want to make sure 19 th at's clear. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: It's just the final. And 21 fr om what Eric 22 MR. HAGERMAN: I don't know if anybody's

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 168 1 ha d a -- 2 MS. HOFFMAN: -- was saying he wasn't as 3 ex cited about having each one mentioned. 4 MR. HAGERMAN: Right, right. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Otherwise, you'll be 6 lo ading it up so. 7 MR. HAGERMAN: I mean, I don't know if 8 an ybody's -- we emailed out the -- some example 9 te rm sheets this morning. I don't know if you've 10 ha d a chance to look at them. They can be as 11 sh ort as seven pages. They can be as long as 23 12 pa ges. I mean, you know, I just don't want this 13 to be a monstrous document for no real reasons. 14 MR. SANTANA: Manny (ph) with Cavco. 15 If the dissenting comments are for the 16 fi nal term sheet, how are we going to have the 17 ra nge of options because the range is for each 18 in dividual item, right? 19 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah, I sort of agree 20 wi th that, just in the nature of keeping this a 21 si mple term sheet, that the range -- we might want 22 to think about the range of options and just say,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 169 1 yo u know, that the members per, you know, item on 2 th e term sheet can decide whether they need to, 3 yo u know, put a range there or not. 4 MR. RAMIREZ: So are we talking about 5 st riking that then? 6 MR. LACEY: Yeah. This is Eric Lacey 7 ag ain. Yeah, I guess the idea behind putting a 8 ra nge of options in there is that it recognizes 9 th at there's probably a high number and a low 10 nu mber, to go back to the 50-to-100 example, and 11 th en nobody is the dissenter, you know, you have 12 th e consensus and you have everybody else. And 13 ev erybody else is -- you know, may be on one side 14 or the other. 15 Maybe you don't have to include this on 16 ev erything and I don't even know if you need to 17 in clude the total vote on every one of these. 18 Th at's a lot of thumb counting. But, you know, at 19

-- maybe the -- you know, the final term sheet may 20 in clude the vote, the options considered and any 21 di ssenting comment, you know, at the will of the 22 Co mmittee or something like that but...

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 170 1 MR. CYMBALSKY: This is John Cymbalsky 2 re presenting ASRAC. So I think what the ASRAC 3 Co mmittee would like to see come out of here is a 4 re ally clean sheet of paper with the -- with what 5 yo u come to consensus on, not necessarily the 6 go od, the bad, the what you did, why you didn't 7 ag ree or -- we do want the vote like how many 8 di ssented, but if the motion carried based on what 9 de scribed consensus as, they just want to know 10 wh at it is. I don't think ASRAC wants to get into 11 th e position of evaluating options after you've 12 al ready voted something out of here. So I don't 13 th ink that should be considered. 14 The reason why one of these was 23 pages 15 lo ng is because there's 105 recommendations so 16 ea ch one just said -- just as an example, for 17 co mmercial HVAC units with coated coils will not 18 ha ve to test. That was one. And there was 19 hu ndreds of others just like that. It didn't say 20 th e options were X, Y and Z. It just said, "This 21 is what was voted out." 22 So I suggest we do the same here because

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 171 1 th e full ASRAC is not going to want to debate the 2 op tions or repeat what -- the work that you've 3 do ne. You basically vote it out and send the term 4 sh eet forward. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So then the 6 ve rbiage that was out there was "The final term 7 sh eet shall include a vote and dissenting 8 co mments." So let's see a show of thumbs. And 9 th is is for an approval or a rejection, right? And 10 th is is a consensus final. Let's see a show of 11 th umbs if you're okay with 4(a). 12 (Call for show of thumbs.) 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: That's a unanimous 16 ap proval on that one. 17 Then on 4(c), (e) and (f), I'm going to 18 tr y -- I'm going to ask you for a final vote on 19 th is. And just because I'm saying it's a "final" 20 me aning that it -- if folks approve it, fine, 21 we 're done. If not, you know, depending on where 22 th e thumbs are, if somebody's thumb is down, then

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 172 1 we 'll talk about it and then we could revote, we 2 co uld keep doing that, right? As long as there's 3 so me additional dialog there. So -- and we're 4 tr ying to get comfortable with the process as well 5 as far as thumbs down so don't be afraid to throw 6 a thumbs down if we need some additional dialog. 7 So adding "non-dissenting" for (c), (e) 8 an d (f), let me see a show of thumbs of where 9 yo u're at on at. 10 (Call for show of thumbs.) 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. I see a couple of 12 th umbs down, right? So either one that has the 13 th umbs down let's hear what you're thinking. 14 MR. DENNIS: I just -- I find that the - 15 - again, an incentive to dissent. 16 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Push 17 th e microphone. 18 MR. DENNIS: And -- 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, mic, mic. 20 MR. DENNIS: Oh. And incentive to 21 di ssent and I really have a problem signing off 22 fo r my entire organization that unless I don't

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 173 1 di ssent on something, they won't be able to 2 co mment. And we're talking about not -- you know, 3 I think that the other part, putting dissenting 4 co mments in the term sheet, was trying to address 5 th is. I think that that's inappropriate because 6 it just muddles things up. But I think it's 7 im portant that if you do have a dissent, don't put 8 it on the term sheet, but allow information to be 9 pu t in the NOPR under the couch that, you know, 10 yo u agreed to the overall thing but on this point, 11 yo u had this concern. 12 And if there's 1,000 people out there 13 wh o read the NOPR who have that same concern, they 14 mi ght bring it up and say, "Wow, you know, this is 15 a concern." And I think that's part of the 16 pr ocess and that's what, you know, we should do as 17 pa rt of its transparency. 18 So, you know, if it's -- now that you 19 kn ow (inaudible) the comment from my organization 20 on any points because I've not dissented, then I 21 re ally do have an incentive to dissent if I have 22 an y concern that any one of 900 members might call

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 174 1 us up and say, "You need to comment on this." So 2 th at's my main concern with, you know, having that 3 sp ecial kind of right to a non-dissenter is that 4 th en it gets into incentive. 5 So I would rather see just these 6 st ricken and maybe aspirational -- more 7 as pirational thing. We're all here to work in 8 go od faith. And if we do find consensus as two9 th irds, we will, you know, inspire not to speak 10 ba dly or challenge, but I don't think that giving 11 up administrative procedure rights appropriate to 12 ta ke part in a negotiation process. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Scott? 14 MR. DRAKE: I will echo that. I think 15 th e way this is written you're actually giving a 16 di sincentive to consent and I don't think that's 17 wh at we want to do. I think we want to drive to 18 co nsensus and this actually gives us a 19 di sincentive to do that. 20 So I kind of like what Keith is saying, 21 it -- I wouldn't mind just pulling all three of 22 th ose and saying in good faith, we will negotiate

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 175 1 an d agree to the terms without anything legally 2 bi nding. Of course, this really isn't legally 3 bi nding anyway, but I understand what we're trying 4 to achieve, but I just don't like it to be 5 di sincentive. 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Uh-huh. Any additional 7 co mments? 8 MR. CYMBALSKY: This is John Cymbalsky. 9 So I guess I'll speak on behalf of the Department 10 no w. The whole reason for doing negotiated 11 ru lemaking is to avoid the lawsuit at the end of 12 th e day. Now, it doesn't, as you said, preclude 13 yo u from doing that in any event. 14 But I think the whole spirit here is 15 th at we're going to come to this consensus and, as 16 a group, agree with whatever the consensus is. If 17 yo u're a dissenter, then you can do all those 18 th ings. But I don't know how you could, in good 19 fa ith, sit here and say, "Yes," and then go poopoo 20 it once it's put in a public document. To me, 21 th at's illogical. 22 Now, I understand associations have

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 176 1 hu ndreds of members. It's generally a least 2 co mmon denominator type of organization. You're 3 he re on behalf of how many are in your group, but 4 th ere's nothing to say that except for East 5 Ke ntucky Power Cooperative and NRECA, you have 500 6 ot her members of NRECA who could comment all they 7 wa nt. They're not at the table. So the guy in 8 So uth Carolina has a problem with it, let him 9 co mment, but you don't comment and you don't 10 co mment. I think what you're suggesting actually 11 ju st hijacks the spirit of what this Group's 12 su pposed to be trying to do. 13 MR. LUTER: Rob, with Lippert. I don't 14 di sagree with what you're saying, but we 15 es tablished earlier this morning that as the 16 pa rty, he represents the entire organization, and 17 we established that some other member of our 18 or ganization other than the guy sitting at the 19 ta ble was bound by this as well. 20 MR. CYMBALSKY: No, I'm not sure that's 21 tr ue. So I think NRCA is bound by him because 22 he 's NRCA. There could be a cooperative that does

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 177 1 no t take NRCA's position and they can comment. 2 MR. LUTER: Okay. You're suggesting 3 th at a member of the organization. 4 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't see that spelled 5 ou t in here anywhere. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Let me ask, do you want to 7 we igh in on this if you don't mind? 8 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: I agree with John 9 (i naudible). 10 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Push 11 th e mic. 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Louder. 13 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: This is Kavita 14 Va idyanathan. And I agree, I think -- and I'm 15 so rry if I misspoke, but we're saying that you're 16 re presenting your organization and on behalf of 17 yo ur organization, in these few paragraphs, that 18 yo u wouldn't provide negative comments or you 19 wo uldn't go forth on a lawsuit, but that doesn't 20 me an if you have members of your organization that 21 ha ve negative comments or disagree with your 22 po sition, that they themselves couldn't put forth

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 178 1 a comment on the NOPR. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: And I think what -- Eileen 3 Hoffman -- we were saying this morning 4 is : if you're say in the Legislative Department of 5 yo ur organization, your other department can't be 6 di fferent, in other words, the same organization. 7 Bu t if you have members, they have -- they're 8 di fferent entities, yeah. They're independent. 9 MR. WEISS: Thanks. Mark Weiss, MHARR. 10 I don't want to beat a dead horse either, but I 11 ag ree. My preference would be to delete them. 12 Th ere's nothing in the statute that requires them. 13 An d that was the question I lead off with is a 14 st atutory regulatory policy or voluntary. There's 15 no thing in the statute that requires it. And I 16 th ink you're getting into some real problems here 17 tr ying to bind people to a consensus that they're 18 no t part of, so my preference would be to delete 19 th em as well. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 21 MR. CYMBALSKY: I mean, but the -- if 22 yo u're not part of the consensus, you're thereby

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 179 1 th e dissenter and the way this was written, that 2 gi ves you every right to do what verbally or 3 ot herwise say about what happens. So again, 4 th at's like saying, "I agree to work in good 5 fa ith, but actually I don't," because at the end 6 of the day, I can say, "Yes," and then go say how 7 cr appy this whole thing was. I personally take 8 is sue with that. 9 MR. LUTER: Rob again, with Lippert. But 10 in that instance, wouldn't that serve to destroy 11 th e person's credibility, "I voted for it, but now 12 I don't"? I mean, I too am basically for striking 13 th ese things. I think at the end of the day, if 14 th ere is a contingent that has dissenting views 15 th at can be supported by send rationale, we as a 16 gr oup are going to water whatever point is trying 17 to be made down to the point that we can reach 18 co nsensus. 19 If it's watered down to the point that 20 it 's really not very effective, DOE rulemaking is 21 go ing to take over, correct? Once they get our 22 re commendation, they're going to say, "No, that's

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 180 1 wa tered down. We need to do something else." 2 And at that point, it is a departure 3 fr om the term sheet and we can dissent all we 4 wa nt, true? 5 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right, but that doesn't 6

-- that's different than what's up here. That's 7 sa ying that DOE did not accept the consensus that 8 wa s brought to them and they're on their own. So 9 no w it's a regular NOPR. It's DOE's NOPR. It's 10 no t this Group's work in the NOPR. 11 MR. LUTER: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 12 MR. CYMBALSKY: And at that point -- 13 MR. LUTER: Yeah. 14 MR. CYMBALSKY: -- you know, throw the 15 eg gs and tomatoes -- 16 MR. LUTER: Sure. 17 MR. CYMBALSKY: -- that's fine. But, 18 yo u know, it's hard for me to believe that you 19 wa nt to say, "Okay. I'm going to agree to what 20 th is Group comes out with, but I reserve the right 21 to be as negative as I want about saying, 'Yes.'" 22 I mean, I don't know, it's -- that just sounds --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 181 1 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, I think you missed a 2 lo t -- some of the conversation. I mean, part of 3 it is: we might vote and not -- I have (inaudible) 4 an d I'm not (inaudible) but there might be -- you 5 kn ow, we might vote for something and be okay with 6 it and be okay with the consensus and want to put 7 so me information into the NOPR as a comment, not 8 ne cessarily sue or anything like that, just put 9 in formation out there as part of the public 10 pr ocess. 11 And whether or not that's considered 12 "negative" or "not negative" might be 13 ki nd of a more subjective determination: would 14 th at be something that we would be barred from 15 do ing, putting comment in on something we do 16 di ssent on that doesn't really have -- I mean, 17 th en you're starting to get into, you know, does 18 it have the same effect as putting it in the term 19 sh eet, "yes" or "no," and, yeah, it's just 20 co nfusing. 21 I mean, I'm not trying to single out our 22 or ganization as unique. I think that other people

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 182 1 sh ared this earlier, so I'm not saying -- I'm just 2 po inting out some things here that -- you know, 3 it 's not necessarily what can be construed as 4 "n egative," what can be construed as "putting in 5 co mments" to something that we might dissent on as 6 pa rt of the process to achieve that consensus, 7 li ke we'll put that in, we'll say, "Yes, you know, 8 we 'll go with this process," and not drop out at 9 th e last minute, as some people suggested, and 10 th en put some information out in the NOPR and not 11 wo rry about being construed as "negative" in 12 re aching our agreement as being part of the 13 pr ocess is what the concern was. 14 MR. CYMBALSKY: So people in the Working 15 Gr oups have commented on the proposal and some of 16 th ese others ones, which is fine, right? It 17 do esn't say you can't comment. But again, I think 18 it just seems duplicitous to me to say, you know, 19 "H ey, I'm here in good faith, but I reserve the 20 ri ght" -- you know, I'll end it there. I'll let 21 th e Group carry it along. But it just strikes me 22 as odd.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 183 1 MR. RAMIREZ: Go ahead, Eric 2 (i naudible). 3 MR. LACEY: I think maybe to go back to 4 an idea that we talked about earlier, I think 5 wh at's -- what concerns me is: I'd rather see a 6 co nsensus that -- where there's only one number, a 7 ve ry simple document like John suggested, or if 8 yo u're going to allow dissenting views, you need 9 to show all the dissenting views, you know. 10 To me, it's an all-or-nothing thing or 11 el se there's just going to be an incentive to 12 di ssent on every single thing. And so I had 13 su ggested earlier maybe the consensus agreement, 14 wh en you get there, if somebody feels like they 15 ha ve been -- that they have had no say whatsoever, 16 th at they could not sign the agreement or they 17 co uld withdraw. But I think I tend to believe 18 th at most people here will give and take a little 19 bi t here and there and that nobody will feel 20 co mpletely run over or else our facilitators 21 ar en't doing their job. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Right, right.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 184 1 MR. LACEY: I have a little bit of faith 2 in this Group that at least some of my views will 3 be listened to and I would tend to put a -- put 4 th at faith forward and say, you know, I would 5 ag ree to this and that if I felt like it was so 6 un fair and that I didn't get anything that I 7 wa nted, then I'd have that option to drop out and 8 fi le whatever comments I wanted to or challenge or 9 wh atever. But anyway, I'm still a little 10 un comfortable with giving kind of a special right 11 to non-dissenter -- or to dissenters because it's 12 ju st going to invite a lot of dissent. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Ishbel then Robin. 14 MS. DICKENS: Yeah, I agree with not 15 gi ving special rights to the dissenters because 16 th en you end up with the minority having control 17 an d having their view be more listened to than the 18 ma jority. And I like things to be as simple and 19 as straightforward as possible so I'm just 20 wo ndering if there's a way to have the disagree21 an d-will-block -- I think that's who we're talking 22 ab out is the disagree-and-will-block group.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 185 1 And is there a way to show, you know, 2 th at the final term sheet will show the vote and 3 li st the disagrees and will not block and that's 4 it . And never mind their comments, just know that 5 I blocked that. That was completely not what my 6 or ganization would want to have happen, and just 7 le ave it like that, very straightforward. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. And I believe there 9 is , right? If how we want to record that and 10 ca pture that, if the folks that were thumbs down, 11 we could definitely record the name. That's not 12 an issue. 13 Robin? 14 MR. ROY: Robin Roy. I think a lot of 15 th is has to do with NRECA's quite dissimilar 16 na ture from the rest of the organizations here. I 17 kn ow, Scott, you signed on to NRECA's position as 18 we ll. I think it's sensible to be supportive that 19 wa y. But you have 900 members that are hard to 20 kn ow in advance. I mean, if you've had much 21 ex perience with NRECA, it is quite a diverse group 22 an d most of us have much more-contained bodies.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 186 1 Ce rtainly my 1.4 members and supporters all 2 co mpletely agree with almost everything we say 3 ev ery day. 4 (Laughter.) 5 MR. ROY: No, I mean, that's being 6 fa cetious. I'm sorry, I don't mean to say that. 7 Bu t actually, I did mean to say that. But it is 8 mo re challenging, I think, for NRECA than it is 9 fo r the rest of us to really understand what is 10 th e evolving interest of its membership. Now, 11 wh ile the organization may have a view, that view 12 ca n change. And I don't want to lose NRECA's 13 in terest and support in this issue and I respect 14 th e challenge that they have with this one 15 An d I also respect also, Mark, your view that the 16 la nguage here would work for you, you know, 17 be cause you have a smaller membership that's not 18 go ing to be as difficult to predict. 19 I'm not sure exactly what the answer is, 20 bu t I come back to my earlier view that I'm not 21 su re really what (c), (e) and (f) really buy us. I 22 th ink that we'll -- what I want to see is a good

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 187 1 di scussion, a good debate, bring all this 2 in formation forward to DOE and to Navigant so they 3 ca n do their analysis in a sensible way. I think 4 we have a good chance of doing that. I don't want 5 to see NRECA feel like they have to distance 6 th emselves increasingly from it. 7 And, John, I take your point too about a 8 de gree of -- was it disingenuity that you were 9 ra ising? But I think in their special case, it 10 ma y not actually be that. It's a very unusual 11 be ast, NRECA. 12 MR. CYMBALSKY: And that's why I think 13 th e members can have different views than the 14 as sociation. That might put them in a tough spot, 15 I get that, but -- so maybe you don't -- you just 16 go neutral, right? It's an association. But, 17 ye ah, I mean, I understand it, but I think we're 18 al l here again in good faith to try to get 19 so mething done but... 20 MS. HOFFMAN: You had a -- 21 MR. UNGAR: Yeah. I'm again okay with 22 ei ther proposal.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 188 1 MS. HOFFMAN: Did you put your thing on? 2 MR. UNGAR: Sorry. Lowell Ungar. I'm 3 ag ain okay with either proposal. I'm wondering if 4 a way to address DOE and/or ASRAC's concerns would 5 be to go back to something Keith had said of being 6 ok ay with a positive statement where everyone 7 co uld take out these three "will not" clauses, but 8 pu t in some positive statement of expectations of 9 pa rties that is -- we're trying to find a 10 co nsensus rule and we'll try to stand behind the 11 pr oduct, if that would address the DOE and ASRAC's 12 co ncerns. 13 MR. DRAKE: Yes, this is Scott Drake. 14 An d what I find I don't like about this is that 15 di ssenting -- it drives us to dissention a little 16 bi t. I like -- I prefer the way it was originally 17 wr itten to this because for the rulemaking 18 pr ocess, it drives us to consensus -- 19 MS. HOFFMAN: We can agree with you. 20 MR. DRAKE: -- and not apart. And 21 th at's a reason I dissented, if you will. On 22 th is, I would prefer the other language to this or

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 189 1 a more moderate language that says we're all here 2 in good faith anyway. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, Mark? 4 MR. WEISS: I agree with what Lowell 5 sa id also. But just to bring this back to where 6 we started the discussion and to address John to 7 so me degree, what I was postulating at the 8 be ginning is: we come down to a final vote on the 9 co nsensus and per Party X votes "No" on that final 10 co nsensus, that should not be a waiver of their 11 pr ocedural rights that they would otherwise have. 12 I was not talking about individual votes along the 13 wa y. I was talking again looking at the big 14 pi cture of that final vote and whether you're 15 go ing to be drawn into a non-consensual, 16 ef fectively, waiver of rights that you would 17 ot herwise have. That's my primary concern. 18 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't think that this 19 do es that. But I guess another point of view here 20 fr om ASRAC's position, so let's say, you know, our 21 gr oup does its thing, it presents to ASRAC the 22 te rm sheet and it had the consensus vote to move

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 190 1 fo rward. ASRAC accepts it, DOE accepts it. Then 2 th e NOPR comes out and members of the Committee 3 wr ite negative viewpoints of what they just voted 4 "Y es" for, ASRAC endorsed and DOE endorsed. 5 I mean, nobody else sees an issue with 6 th at? I just -- it just seems strange to me. 7 MR. WEISS: Okay. I don't understand. 8 I' m postulating a "No" vote. 9 MR. CYMBALSKY: No, you're good with a 10 "N o" vote. 11 MR. WEISS: Okay. 12 MR. CYMBALSKY: You can do whatever you 13 wa nt. 14 MR. WEISS: All right. 15 MR. CYMBALSKY: I'm saying someone who 16 di d not vote "No" actually could have voted "Yes," 17 bu t I think if you take that out -- well, with 18 wh at was -- 19 MR. DENNIS: If I'm -- hold up. I'm 20 ju st throwing out there. I put my hand in because 21 it 's where I understand the process to 22 (i naudible).

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 191 1 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah, no question. 2 MR. DENNIS: Well, I'm just saying it 3 do es provide an incentive to say, "No," on some of 4 th e smaller items that we might want to reserve 5 th e right to comment on. Now, that's -- if 6 ev eryone's fine with that, if that's what we have 7 to do to preserve a right to comment on something, 8 th at's fine. 9 I think the easier way is to just say 10 th at it's a transparent process. If somebody's in 11 th e process -- and, you know, that -- if you want 12 to do it that way, that's fine. It's -- now you 13 ha ve to dissent in order to comment whereas 14 be fore, you might have more leeway to say, "Okay. 15 We 're going to put more information out on this. 16 Le t this kind of be a -- not a dissenting vote, 17 ju st let it go. We'll put some more information 18 ou t there in the NOPR. 19 If there's more people who have 20 co mments, they'll provide it and then people can 21 co nsider it as part of an open process." But 22 we 're still here at the table giving our best

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 192 1 ef fort to get it through. You know, we'll put 2 co mments -- and not negative, not like "This is 3 th e stupidest thing I've ever heard of," but 4 "H ere's some information. You know, we weren't 5 su re during the process," and let it be. 6 But if we have to say in order to be 7 co nservative, we have to dissent so that we can 8 co mment later, that might be construed negative. 9 Th at's fine, too, but I was just bringing it up. I 10 do n't say I'll hold up -- you know, I'm not trying 11 to hold up any process here. I'm just putting 12 th at out there. 13 And if we want to vote on it, I'll -- 14 yo u know, I can agree to, you know, doing this. 15 I' m just putting out the point that it does 16 pr ovide an incentive to dissent. If there's any 17 qu estion of whether or not later during the NOPR, 18 yo u want might want to put more information out 19 an d comment so. 20 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah, and you can always 21 co mment, right, and it's -- 22 MR. DENNIS: Well, this is saying that

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 193 1 yo u might not be able to if you don't dissent. 2 MR. CYMBALSKY: Not just the negative 3 co mments. So what I don't want happen is saying, 4 "O kay. For the record, NRECA voted in favor of 5 wi ndows with a U-factor of X," and then we put 6 th at in and NRECA's comment comes out saying, 7 "T his is the -- you know, NRECA disagrees with a 8 U- factor of X," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 9 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Right. 10 MR. CYMBALSKY: That's what -- this is 11 wh at I'm -- this is the position I'm taking that - 12 - by a negative comment. So when you see -- the 13 te rm sheet, let's say, has 10 things that we voted 14 ou t, 1 through 10, and in the NOPR, it'll 15 en umerate them and if you voted "Yes" for Item 3 16 bu t then in the NOPR, say you disagree -- this is 17 wh at I mean by a negative comment -- NRECA or -- 18 so rry to use you as an example, I don't mean 19 an ything against NRECA -- disagrees with Number 3 20 ev en though you voted "Yes" for it in the 21 co nsensus, that's what I'm trying to get at here. 22 Th at's what I mean by a negative comment.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 194 1 MR. DENNIS: And I think we'd all hope 2 th at that wouldn't happen and we're all -- that's 3 wh y, I think, the aspirational language would work 4 be tter than non-dissenting, but if you -- like you 5 sa id, if you voted on non-dissenting and this 6 la nguage, I just wanted to throw that out there: 7 is it, you know, incentive to dissent? 8 Bu t I'm willing to, you know -- 9 MR. CYMBALSKY: It's actually happened - 10 - 11 MR. DENNIS: -- put my nose on that. 12 MR. CYMBALSKY: -- in another working 13 gr oup. That's why I'm really kind of beating this 14 ho rse. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, okay. 16 MR. CYMBALSKY: Someone voted for a 17 sp ecific action and was actually like the person 18 wh o was behind it. 19 (Laughter.) 20 MR. CYMBALSKY: And then in the NOPR 21 co mments said they didn't agree with that, and I 22 ac tually had to call them up to remind them that

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 195 1 it was kind of their idea. But anyway, you know, 2 yo u could see where I'm coming from here, I think. 3 I get the sense everyone here has the right spirit 4 to get this done so that's good. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 6 MR. CYMBALSKY: I feel that way. 7 MR. ROY: (Inaudible) change (inaudible) 8 li ke (inaudible). 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 10 MR. DENNIS: Let me try to summarize -- 11 MS. HOFFMAN: Hold on. Okay. 12 MR. DENNIS: Someone said -- 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Robin has something in 14 mi nd (inaudible). 15 MR. DENNIS: Oh, I'm sorry, Robin, 16 (i naudible). 17 MS. HOFFMAN: That's all right. 18 MR. ROY: I feel your pain, John, but I 19 ac tually think that somebody behaving that way 20 sh ould be easily dismissible in your final rule. 21 MR. CYMBALSKY: Well, it's hard because 22 we have to address all the comments, right? So --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 196 1 ri ght, so we can make the person look bad. I 2 do n't really want to be in that position. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 4 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't -- look, this is 5 bo th ways, I think. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh. 7 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't want to say 8 Co mpany X said this and now Company X is saying 9 on e over that. Sure, we could do that in a public 10 do cument, but this -- is that what people really 11 wa nt here? I don't think so. 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Good point. Okay. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. Yeah, I was 14 go ing to try to capture where I would say that the 15 st icking points are, right, where one group was 16 sa ying, "We want to be careful," you know, and I 17 th ink I even heard the term that, you know, if 18 we 're "muscled" or "steamrolled," and steamrolled 19 is probably my term, right? But in other words, 20 if we didn't get a chance to talk, do we later 21 th en waive our right to take any actions where the 22 ot her side is saying, "But if you support it here,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 197 1 yo u better not be dissenting it later." It makes 2 no sense. And when you think about why the -- 3 th is Work Group is here is to avoid that type of 4 is sue later, right? 5 So the question that I have for you: 6 does this address both concerns? And if 7 so , I hear the other comments being -- this is 8 go ing to really make the process tough 9 po tentially, right, which then puts a little bit 10 mo re on Eileen and I to really -- and if you 11 re member, our goal is going to try to get you as 12 cl ose to 100 percent as possible. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 14 MR. RAMIREZ: We may not always get 15 th ere, right, but that's going to be what we're 16 st riving for with the bottom line being the two17 th irds, right? 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I could -- 19 MS. HOFFMAN: And one of them, just so 20 yo u know, is between meetings telling -- talking 21 to you about how to communicate to your 22 co nstituents so they know what you're doing so it

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 198 1 is n't -- and so all I'm getting at is that you're 2 he re and there's a lot of responsibility here, but 3 yo u do have folks behind and so we -- that's why 4 we time some of these meetings so you can 5 co mmunicate going -- 6 MR. DENNIS: You know, I mean, I guess 7 ju st a process question. It seems like if we had 8 wr itten this, we wouldn't have included this, and 9 it seems like a bunch of people want it taken out 10 or think it's -- makes them uncomfortable. And it 11 wa sn't included in kind of like the signup thing 12 li ke, well, "If you participate in this, you're 13 go ing to be saying no negative." 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 15 MR. DENNIS: So I'm not sure why there's 16 su ch resistance to kind of say maybe we'll just 17 ge t rid of it. But that being say, you know, if 18 yo u want to -- I think that there's probably 19 co nsensus on a couple of them. If you're saying 20 no w we have two-thirds, we'd probably get two21 th irds potentially to strike it. We could 22 pr obably get two-thirds to say, "Non-dissenting."

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 199 1 We could -- you know, it's a high level of 2 di scomfort. We didn't come up with this stuff. 3 It's just here and now we're responding 4 to it. We spent hours on it. I don't know why 5 it 's even here given it wasn't kind of a 6 pr erequisite to kind of participate. I mean, 7 ag ain you could just sit in the back of the room 8 an d give comments and say, "Now I can" -- you 9 kn ow, so that's just a -- from overall kind of 10 pr ocess-wise, it might be nice or transparent to 11 sa y, "In this process, if you sign up to this, you 12 wi ll, you know, be waiving some rights to comments 13 an d rights to appeals," and, you know, instead of 14 ju st kind of putting it here and having us spend a 15 co uple hours on it when we didn't come up with it. 16 It seems kind of strange. 17 MR. CYMBALSKY: I guess from DOE's point 18 of view, we would just revert to the standard 19 ru lemaking process and -- at that point. I mean - 20 - 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Let me get Robert and then 22 Is hbel.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 200 1 MR. LUTER: Rob, with Lippert. Just a 2 qu ick question for John. When this occasion did 3 ar ise where somebody was for it before they were 4 ag ainst it -- I think they came up with that down 5 th e street here -- how'd it shake out? I mean, 6 wa s it the end of the world or were you able to 7 re solve it? 8 MR. CYMBALSKY: So that rulemaking's 9 st ill open actually. 10 MR. LUTER: Oh. 11 (Laughter.) 12 MR. CYMBALSKY: Yeah. It's the one that 13 ju st finished before. So, no, I mean, I don't -- 14 it 's an uncomfortable position to have to respond 15 to a comment in that -- 16 MR. LUTER: Does a comment like that 17 fr om a participant in a group like this carry that 18 mu ch more weight than a comment from the public on 19 a NOPR? 20 MR. CYMBALSKY: No, because we respond 21 to all comments so that -- no, no more weight. 22 It 's just -- I mean, you're calling somebody out

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 201 1 fo r the actions that they're taking. 2 MR. LUTER: Understood. My point there 3 is : if a member of the public could make the 4 co mment and it has to be considered thoughtfully - 5 - 6 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right. 7 MR. LUTER: -- or if a member of the 8 pu blic that's acting as a surrogate for a member 9 co uld make the comment -- 10 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right, they could do 11 th at. 12 MR. LUTER: -- or if a member makes the 13 co mment in the negative even though previously 14 su pported it, if at the end of the day your 15 re sponse has to be the same thing, does it really 16 ma tter other than the awkwardness and -- I get 17 th at? 18 MR. CYMBALSKY: It matters and -- you 19 kn ow, so if this comes to a consensus and the term 20 sh eet's clean and it's accepted, the idea is that 21 th en all the -- these are the key stakeholders 22 th at supposedly have the most interest in the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 202 1 ru lemaking. I'm hoping that 90 percent of the 2 pu blic comment we would get is generated from the 3 Gr oup around the table. I may be wrong, but let's 4 ju st throw that out there. 5 So if we take the consensus and everyone 6 he re agreed to it, let's say, and it goes through, 7 th e public comment I expect to be responding to in 8 th e final rule is, "Yea, everyone likes it." 9 MR. LUTER: Yeah, pretty clean. 10 MR. CYMBALSKY: Right? 11 MR. LUTER: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 12 MR. CYMBALSKY: No -- doesn't that make 13 ou r job a lot easier than -- 14 MR. LUTER: No. 15 MR. CYMBALSKY: So, I mean, that's the 16 wh ole idea for us being here. I mean, it -- no 17 di srespect to anyone in the room, but it's almost 18 li ke you want it both ways now. You want to do 19 th e negotiated rulemaking, but you want to 20 pr eserve the slice of the regular rulemaking, the 21 co ntentious part, and keep that right to be 22 co ntentious even if you voted "Yes." You know, we

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 203 1 ca n go that way, that's fine, but I think it's 2 ag ainst, in my mind, the spirit of why I'm 3 sp ending taxpayers' dollars to do all this stuff. 4 Bu t that's, you know, for the Group to decide. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 6 Is hbel? 7 MS. DICKENS: In the spirit of trying to 8 ge t to consensus, I've got some language that I'd 9 li ke to offer. 10 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 11 MS. DICKENS: "The members of this 12 ne gotiated rulemaking work group agree to 13 pa rticipate in good faith and will attempt to 14 re ach consensus wherever possible. And where any 15 pa rty does not agree to the consensus position, 16 th en these parties are free to offer comments 17 th rough the NOPR as they see fit." 18 Does that work for people? Mark doesn't 19 li ke it, yeah? 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Go ahead, Mark. 21 MR. WEISS: Okay. Don't prejudge. 22 (Laughter.)

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 204 1 MR. WEISS: No, actually I had a 2 qu estion. 3 Is that -- would that be in lieu of (c), 4 (d ) and (e), a replacement? 5 MS. DICKENS: Yes, it was a replacement 6 fo r those. 7 MR. WEISS: Okay. Did you have it 8 wr itten down? 9 MS. DICKENS: I have it scribbled down, 10 ye s. 11 MR. WEISS: Okay, good enough. 12 Could you read it again please? I'd 13 li ke to hear it again. 14 MS. DICKENS: Yes. 15 MR. WEISS: I'd like to hear it again. I 16 do n't know if anybody else would. 17 MS. DICKENS: "Members of this 18 ne gotiated rulemaking work group agree to 19 pa rticipate in good faith and will attempt to 20 re ach consensus wherever possible. Where any 21 pa rty does not" -- 22 MS. HOFFMAN: You better go slower.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 205 1 MS. DICKENS: I'm sorry. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, I'm on a work group 3 on that. 4 MS. DICKENS: Oh, I'm -- and it says, 5 "M embers of this -- 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Negotiated rulemaking work 7 gr oup. 8 MS. DICKENS: -- work group agree to 9 pa rticipate in good faith and will attempt to 10 re ach consensus wherever possible." 11 Then new sentence, "Where any party does 12 no t agree to the consensus position, then these 13 pa rties are free to offer comments through the 14 NO PR as they see fit." 15 MR. RAMIREZ: Now, NOPR? 16 MS. DICKENS: NOPR. 17 MS. HOFFMAN: N-O-P-R. 18 MS. DICKENS: It just said, "N-O-P-R." 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Notice of -- 20 MS. DICKENS: Notice of -- 21 MS. HOFFMAN: -- Proposed Rulemaking. 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: N-O-P-R.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 206 1 MS. HOFFMAN: N-O-P-R, right? 2 MS. DICKENS: Yeah. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, just the 4 (i naudible), yeah. 5 MS. DICKENS: "As they see fit." 6 MR. WEISS: A friendly suggestion before 7 we discuss it. I would suggest here take out 8 "w herever possible." I don't think you need it 9 an d I think it add ambiguity so it could be 10 pr oblematic. Anything's possible. 11 MS. DICKENS: I guess (inaudible) that. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Let me bring it up a 13 li ttle bit more so it's not -- 14 MR. CYMBALSKY: And I still think people 15 wh o actually agree to the consensus position can 16 co mment as well so I don't want to -- again, 17 yo u're allowed to comment whether or not you agree 18 wi th it. 19 MR. LUTER: I don't know if it still has 20 to be negative but -- 21 MR. CYMBALSKY: Well, that's the whole 22 th ing. And we got some very positive ones out of

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 207 1 ou r last two working groups so. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So the question is: 3 Is this good enough to replace (c), (e) 4 an d (f)? 5 MR. CYMBALSKY: Go back. 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 7 MR. CYMBALSKY: Push it up a little? So 8 th e (f) doesn't seem to be part of the statement. 9 I could see (c) and (e) being covered but... 10 MR. DENNIS: I mean, I think that it's 11 re asonable to say that if they're going to 12 ch allenge it in court, you wouldn't dissent then. 13 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Push 14 th e mic. 15 MR. DENNIS: I think it's reasonable to 16 sa y -- and again, I feel bad because I feel like 17 I' m the one holding this up, but, I mean, if 18 so mebody's going to challenge it, I would imagine 19 th ey'd dissent so I don't -- that's a big holdup 20 fo r -- John seems to hold more weight because he's 21 th e federal representative of ASRAC here. 22 MR. CYMBALSKY: No, no, we're all equal

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 208 1 he re. So -- and I take your point, right? So if 2 th at's, in fact, the case, which I believe it to 3 be as well, there's no reason why you can't state 4 it . 5 MR. RAMIREZ: So -- 6 MR. CYMBALSKY: If you agree to that, I 7 ag ree, too. You would dissent if you're going to 8 su e so why not have the statement? 9 MR. DENNIS: So I guess my question is - 10 - 11 MR. CYMBALSKY: I don't want you to 12 ag ree with me and sue me. 13 MR. DENNIS: I mean, that's not a 14 pr oblem is it? 15 MR. RAMIREZ: So what I'm hearing is 16 th at -- 17 MR. DENNIS: Can we vote on just what 18 sh e proposed with just getting rid of (c), (d) and 19 (f ) and using that in place? Because that's the 20 ea siest thing, I think. 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That's fine, 22 un derstood it.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 209 1 MR. DENNIS: Yes. 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Let's do 3 th is. 4 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. So then -- and 5 ag ain, gauging the level of consensus, right? But 6 I just -- 7 MS. HOFFMAN: Make sure -- 8 MR. RAMIREZ: -- want to make sure that 9 th ere's -- 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Make sure what it is. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. Well, that's 12 se cond. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: But I want to make sure 15 th at there was no additional comment before I do 16 th at and make sure that we know exactly what we're 17 vo ting on. So -- 18 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: So this is Kavita 19 Va idyanathan. I think I agree with John in saying 20 th at why can't we -- I don't know. I just think 21 it would be best to add (f) to the last statement 22 sa ying that "Where any party does not agree to the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 210 1 co nsensus position, then these parties are free to 2 of fer comments through the NOPR as they see fit or 3 ta ke a position materially inconsistent with the 4 st andard in court or in any forum." 5 MR. DENNIS: I mean, just -- 6 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: So that's just adding 7

-- 8 MR. DENNIS: I can see why DOE's general 9 co unsel brought it up, but I could see why my 10 ge neral counsel and our general counsels would 11 wa nt to say, "We don't want to bind our CEOs to 12 so mething in this process." So, you know -- and 13 ag ain, you know, if we wanted to file a lawsuit, 14 th is wouldn't hold up in court. And if it's me 15 si tting here, you know, they'd fire me and 16 wh atever, you know. 17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: If you're 18 lu cky. 19 MR. DENNIS: Yeah. 20 (Laughter.) 21 MR. DENNIS: So I just think it's much 22 ea sier to -- and I think the -- I think that we

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 211 1 co uld probably pass consensus with her proposal. 2 I' d rather vote on it. 3 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: Well, I think -- I 4 me an, the only -- and I don't mean to beat a dead 5 ho rse either, but I think DOE's position is: we 6 do n't want to get sued if you agree and think that 7 it 's a good position and you agree with the 8 co nsensus, that a party that said "Yes" to the 9 co nsensus is going to sue us later and say, "Well, 10 I was in the Working Group and negotiated in good 11 fa ith but even though I voted 'Yes,' I'm going to 12 br ing a lawsuit." 13 MR. DENNIS: Right. And general -- 14 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: So that's where we're 15 co ming from. 16 MR. DENNIS: And DOE's general counsel 17 wo uld like us to put in that nobody could ever see 18 DO E ever, right, so -- 19 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: But that's -- 20 MR. DENNIS: And I know your position -- 21 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: -- what I'm saying. I 22 am -- I do understand --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 212 1 MR. DENNIS: Right. 2 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: -- that there is a 3 di ssenting vote and that the dissenters want to 4 fi le the lawsuit, I get that. But I would hope 5 th at the people that agreed to the actual term 6 sh eet and they voted "Yes" for neutral, they 7 wo uldn't want to sue. That's the whole point of 8 th is Work Group, right? 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 10 Yeah, Mark? 11 MR. WEISS: Well, I'm not going to argue 12 th e part that says, "I would hope that." That's 13 th e whole idea of making this aspirational. I 14 do n't think you can force anybody into a waiver of 15 th eir rights. "Just head to the exits," you know, 16 is the response to that. 17 I don't think anybody wants to act in an 18 in consistent fashion, but we -- again, it's a 19 qu estion of being sucked into a -- at the end, in 20 an unwilling waiver or have to resign and 21 ef fectively give up our right to try to convince 22 ot hers here of our position, which is the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 213 1 ob jective of it. 2 Again, I'm okay with the aspirational 3 la nguage in place of (c), (d) and (e). 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (c), (d) -- 5 (c ), (e) and (f). 6 MR. SPEAKER 2: (c), (d) and (f), that's 7 ri ght. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Lois. 9 MR. WEISS: Okay. 10 MS. STARKEY: But, Mark, just correct 11 me . You're suggesting that after you -- we go 12 th rough this whole process and for some reason 13 so mebody in this room can't agree to the final 14 te rms, they feel that they have a right to try to 15 st ill convince those people, or to convince DOE or 16 to convince who, the public? 17 MR. WEISS: No, what I'm saying is: if 18 yo u leave the language in, you can participate in 19 a final vote and vote "No" but still be deemed to 20 be part of a consensus and will have waived your 21 ri ghts under these various statutes. So a person 22 in that -- if this language was retained, a person

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 214 1 in that position, presumably, would resign before 2 be ing compromised in that way. 3 So what I'm saying is: I want to be able 4 to try and -- not say, "I," but a generic person 5 he re would want to be able to try to convince the 6 me mbers of this Group as part of this process 7 wi thout having to resign preemptively basically in 8 or der to avoid being swept up in this. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: Manuel? 10 MR. SANTANA: I don't think that's what 11 it 's saying at all. If you don't agree, then 12 yo u're not part of the consensus and -- or you're 13 a dissenting party so you can say whatever you 14 wa nt, you know, as -- or you could make whatever - 15 - all the comments you want. If you say, "Yes, 16 th is is what I vote for, I agree with it," then 17 yo u can't go and say "No." 18 MR. WEISS: I've been postulating all 19 al ong if -- you know, and this -- I don't know if 20 I' m going to dissent, you know. I may or may not, 21 I don't know. But I've been postulating all along 22 -- I've repeated it here several times -

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 215 1 - that -- well, what I'm saying is: if I vote 2 "N o", or whoever votes "No" on the final 3 co nsensus, you don't want to waive your right to 4 su bmit negative comments or to sue. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, because Keith is 6 sa ying you are. 7 MR. WEISS: And I have said that any one 8 of the three approaches mentioned -- 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 10 MR. WEISS: -- I think would address 11 th at issue, or is it four now? The -- 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Let me just for a moment. 13 MR. WEISS: All right. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Maybe I'm just hearing if 15 -- what I heard you say is: if you vote 16 "N o" on the final, you have a right -- you can -- 17 yo u're dissenting, right, Kavita, you could sue; 18 is that correct? 19 MR. RAMIREZ: That's what (f) would do, 20 ri ght? 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 22 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: From DOE's

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 216 1 pe rspective, yeah. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, so I'm -- 3 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: I mean, we agree that 4

-- 5 MS. HOFFMAN: That's why I'm a little 6 pu zzled. 7 Go on. 8 MR. WEISS: Right. And that's what I'm 9 tr ying to explain and -- because we had different 10 pr oposals floating around. I have said I would 11 pr efer just removal. That would be my preferred 12 po sition because then I'm not going to have to 13 ar gue about what language means, whatever, it just 14 is gone. And again, this is -- 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Removal of what, of 16 (i naudible). 17 MR. WEISS: (c), (e) and (f), or 18 wh atever ones we're talking about at this point. 19 MS. HOFFMAN: I see. 20 MR. WEISS: Removal, so I'm not stuck 21 la ter on arguing about what that language means if 22 I vote "No" on the final and then somebody says,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 217 1 "W ell, you waived your right to do X." 2 I would be fine with removal and the 3 ad ditional of Ishbel's aspirational language. 4 I would be okay with changing it to 5 "n on-dissenting" because that addresses my issue. 6 Bu t again, I'm putting these in order of my 7 pr eference. I'm putting this all out on the 8 ta ble. And there might have been another 9 su ggestion, but essentially in that order. 10 I mean, I don't want to be stuck at the 11 en d of this process, I don't want anybody to be 12 st uck at the end of this process, you know, 13 ar guing about what, you know, a particular word 14 th at's left in here means. So the simplest 15 ap proach, from those of us who are concerned about 16 th is, is to just remove it. It's not an issue. 17 Th e statutes and the regulations whatever applies 18 wi ll apply. 19 If you have verbiage, again I'm more 20 co mfortable with Ishbel's aspirational language 21 co mbined with taking out those provisions. 22 My last place that I would be okay with

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 218 1 bu t not as preferred would be having the "non2 di ssenting" language in there because that does 3 co ver, at some level, my concern but it still 4 le aves the prospect down the road of having to 5 ar gue about what something means. 6 MR. RAMIREZ: So it's a little 7 (i naudible) -- 8 MR. WEISS: I'm trying to -- 9 MR. RAMIREZ: -- on that consensus 10 la dder but still acceptable. 11 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 12 No w, who hasn't spoken yet? 13 (Laughter.) 14 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay. 15 Th ey're quiet. 16 MS. HOFFMAN: As a good facilitator -- 17 MR. LUTER: Just a quick -- 18 MS. HOFFMAN: -- I want to know -- 19 MR. LUTER: -- clarification please? 20 MS. HOFFMAN: All right, sure. 21 MR. LUTER: Rob, with Lippert. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Rob.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 219 1 MR. LUTER: I want to make sure. We are 2 sp eaking strictly about the last vote, correct, 3 no t elemental votes within? It's once the term 4 sh eet's put together and the vote for consensus -- 5 MS. HOFFMAN: The last vote. 6 MR. LUTER: -- on the term sheet, this 7 is -- okay. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: The final final. 9 MR. LUTER: That's the only one we're 10 ta lking about. 11 MS. HOFFMAN: That's right. 12 MR. LUTER: Okay. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: The final final, which I 14 th ink is -- was that the -- 15 MR. UNGAR: This is Lowell. That's not 16 ho w I read that language so I'm not -- I would 17 li ke it to be that way. That's not -- 18 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Push 19 th e mic please. 20 MR. UNGAR: -- how I read what's actually 21 th ere so I wanted (inaudible) -- 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, I --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 220 1 MR. UNGAR: I'm sorry, I thought I was 2 on . I tried to turn it on. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: So you're -- 4 MR. UNGAR: So I'm questioning them but 5

-- 6 MS. HOFFMAN: -- asking Ishbel -- 7 MR. UNGAR: I'm questioning the 8 in terpretation. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 10 MR. UNGAR: You just gave an 11 in terpretation, which I assume included the new 12 "( g)," or whatever we're calling it. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: The highlighted part. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. Maybe we should -- 15 MR. UNGAR: And it says -- 16 MS. HOFFMAN: -- ask Ishbel when -- 17 MR. UNGAR: So it says, "Where any party 18 do es not agree to the consensus position," to me, 19 th at says -- 20 MS. HOFFMAN: You mean on any issue. 21 MR. UNGAR: "Where," to me, sounds like 22 "a nything," so I would -- it makes some

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 221 1 di fference. I actually like it better if it's 2 on ly talking about the final agreement as a whole. 3 MS. DICKENS: And I think I did mean 4 th at because I was referencing it back to the (a) 5 wh ere the term "the final" -- where you had "the 6 fi nal" in (a) (inaudible). 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Final. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: So final consensus, would 9 th at be where any party does not agree -- 10 MS. DICKENS: Oh, where any party 11 do esn't agree to the final -- 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Consensus document or I 13 gu ess -- 14 MS. DICKENS: -- consensus position, 15 ye ah. 16 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Or the term 17 sh eet. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Terms of -- 19 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Robin Roy 20 ov er here with his placard up. 21 MR. ROY: I'm just always saying the 22 sa me thing. It's Robin. I think that doesn't --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 222 1 I still think it doesn't deal with the one really 2 mo st-unusual (inaudible) or type organization in 3 th is room and that's NRECA because that means that 4 if they don't say, "No," they won't be able to 5 co mment later. And I don't want to drive them 6 fr om the table. 7 I think we get the benefit from DOE 8 ha ving them at this table. DOE -- it may be 9 fr ustrating that NRECA changes its mind as its 10 me mbers weigh in and then they have to be rude, I 11 gu ess, in their comments and the way they address 12 th e public comment, but I think you get what you 13 ne ed from having a more vibrant discussion and we 14 co me up with a better NOPR faster. 15 And I would just love, based on how long 16 th is is taking and how unproductive it finally is, 17 to just see if we could ditch (c), (e) and (f). 18 An d if we can put in some aspirational language, 19 th at's great, and recognize that nothing here is 20 go ing to be effectively binding because the Courts 21 ar en't going to stand for any of this stuff. 22 So this is all kind of feel-good bits?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 223 1 Co me on, we're sitting here because we feel good 2 ab out working towards something productive. Can 3 pu t this behind us. 4 What's -- what was your expression, 5 "e wall" -- "eball"? 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Elmo. 7 MS. HOFFMAN: Elmo, Elmo. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: Elmo. 9 MR. ROY: And the second thing is -- 10 MR. RAMIREZ: No, I -- 11 MR. ROY: I have one other issue like 12 wh y do we think it's okay to beat a live horse? I 13 do n't get this. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes, right. 15 MR. ROY: Yeah. 16 MS. HOFFMAN: I was in a negotiation, 17 ju st so you know, last week where a woman had a 18 ch arm bracelet with a dead horse on it, which she 19 us ed all the time, anyway. 20 (Laughter.) 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. Well, see the -- 22 an d I think the part of the -- at least in my --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 224 1 as a facilitator, I want to make sure that 2 ev eryone has an opportunity to express their 3 co ncerns, but also the part -- the whole reason, 4 at least for what I understood that this process 5 is all about, right, the whole idea is to get the 6 in terested parties in, hopefully get them to reach 7 co nsensus and you avoid any, you know, litigation 8 la ter. That's the whole reason that you're here 9 or at least minimize the opportunity for it. And 10 so I want to make sure that everyone's okay with 11 it . 12 But even more importantly, right, the 13 DO E in the sense that then why do this, right? And 14 so I want to make sure that everyone is truly 15 on board with the final outcome before we move 16 ah ead. So, you know, as everyone said that you 17 be at the dead horse and they take their kick, you 18 kn ow, it might be necessary, right, to make sure 19 th at at least that everything's brought out on 20 th is issue. It seems like it's a pretty core 21 pi ece, right? 22 So what I heard was -- and I'm going to

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 225 1 pu t the onus here on DOE to speak up if -- you 2 kn ow, if there's issues, right? So what I'm 3 he aring is: (c), (e) and (f) are eliminated, and 4 pu t in the highlighted language, which reads, for 5 th e folks that are not here, right, "Members in 6 th e Negotiated Rulemaking Work Group agree to 7 pa rticipate in good faith and will attempt to 8 re ach consensus. Where any party does not agree 9 to the final consensus position, then these 10 pa rties are free to offer comments there the NOPR 11 as they see fit." Yeah. 12 MR. SANTANA: You know, I'd like to say, 13 "E lmo," as well but -- 14 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: You good 15 wi th that? 16 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: 17 (I naudible). 18 MR. SANTANA: If you -- where it says if 19 yo u don't agree to the consensus position, you're 20 fr ee to offer comments through NOPR, does that 21 re strict you? 22 MS. DICKENS: No. Take out -- you just

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 226 1 ta ke out -- 2 MR. SANTANA: NOPR? 3 MS. DICKENS: -- "through the NOPR" just 4 li ke (inaudible) -- 5 MR. SANTANA: (Inaudible). 6 MS. DICKENS: -- whatever. I mean, to - 7 - 8 MR. SANTANA: You know, so that means 9 yo u can't sue now because you can only comment on 10 th e NOPR? 11 MS. DICKENS: We can remove "through the 12 NO PR," I'm fine. I mean, I just want it 13 st raightforward and simple. 14 MR. DENNIS: Yes, I agree with 15 ev erything Robin says, I think she makes a lot of 16 se nse. But the reality in what DOE says, the 17 re ality is: we can just do it through a surrogate 18 an yway. We're really arguing about nothing here 19 an d it's really just the uncomfortableness of what 20 we can bind other people to. I mean, we talked 21 ea rlier about just making it the people in the 22 ro om, which we could do. We talked about a lot of

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 227 1 th ings I think we could all get a consensus on. It 2 so unds like we have the most consensus on this and 3 we need to vote and move on. 4 MR. RAMIREZ: I think -- 5 MR. DENNIS: I probably could have 6 re ached consensus on a number of things so. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: So with that, let's see a 8 sh ow of thumbs where you're at with striking (c), 9 (e ) and (f), keeping the highlighting language, 10 wh ich I just read. 11 (Calls for show of thumbs.) 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (inaudible) 13 in the NOPR? 14 MS. DICKENS: Yeah, you can have that. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: I'm sorry. 16 MS. DICKENS: You can -- if you leaf 17 th rough the NOPR just because that's limiting. I 18 do n't -- I didn't mean to give (inaudible). 19 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So another 20 co mment deleting "through the NOPR as they see 21 fi t." 22 MS. DICKENS: Yeah, all their comments.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 228 1 Ye ah, that's fine. 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. Okay. 3 Uh -huh (affirmatively). 4 MS. DICKENS: They can offer unfit 5 co mments. 6 (Laughter.) 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Let's see a show of 8 th umbs if you're okay with those modifications. 9 (Calls for show of thumbs.) 10 MR. HAGERMAN: Now, this is the 11 mo dification of the yellow that's added? 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Keeping the highlighted, 13 st riking (c), (e) and (f). 14 MR. HAGERMAN: And (f). 15 MR. RAMIREZ: And (f). 16 MR. HAGERMAN: To be honest with you, 17 I' m going to have to talk to our larger general 18 co unsel about striking out. 19 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. Then your 20 th umb is down from my -- 21 MR. HAGERMAN: My thumb is down, yes. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: And what I understand, you

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 229 1 wa nt to table with that? 2 MR. HAGERMAN: If you take this vote 3 li ke after a 30-minute break, I could probably 4 ha ve a different position. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, let me ask you: are 6 yo u all okay with a 15-minute break? 7 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. Let's go ahead 9 an d take a 15-minute break, see if you get it done 10 wi thin that time. If not, then we'll see where we 11 go from there. 12 MR. HAGERMAN: All right. Thanks. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 14 (Recess taken.) 15 MR. RAMIREZ: Is that everyone? 16 MS. HOFFMAN: Wait. Are we missing 17 Ri chard Potts? 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, we've 19 (i naudible) on this one. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, we'll give another 21 mi nute. 22 (Pause.)

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 230 1 MR. RAMIREZ: Let's go ahead and get 2 st arted. And we left so that way we could check 3 so mething out. I'll open the floor to Joe. 4 MR. HAGERMAN: Is everybody here? 5 MR. RAMIREZ: No. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Well, Richard Potts isn't 7 he re. 8 MR. HAGERMAN: And Mark had a conference 9 ca ll. 10 So how is the attendance on the webinar; 11 is everybody -- 12 MS. MARCHETTI: Oh, for members? 13 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah, Working Group 14 me mbers. 15 MS. MARCHETTI: It's still (inaudible). 16 MR. HAGERMAN: Okay, great. So first of 17 al l, thanks for letting me go down and check with 18 ou r General Counsel's Office on what DOE's 19 po sition here especially as it relates to removal 20 of (f). 21 I think we're very comfortable with 22 re moving (c) and (e) with the highlighted text. I

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 231 1 th ink we're very supportive of that. 2 (f), you know, we're all here in good 3 fa ith to work through some really hard issues as a 4 gr oup in a very short time frame to define what 5 th ese efficiency standards need to look like that 6 ar e really going to, you know, support your 7 in dustry and your members, and so we, you know, 8 gr eatly appreciate everybody's time and interest 9 in this and we know we're going to have a lot of 10 ha rd discussions as we come up with technical 11 le vels. 12 And I think that, you know, we all hope, 13 in the bottom of our hearts, that we're here in 14 go od faith to addresses these as colleagues, as, 15 yo u know, peers, as stewards to make sure that we, 16 as a group, come up with the best term sheet and 17 NO PR we can for the industry as well as all the 18 co nsumers that by manufactured housing. 19 So with that said, you know, we're 20 re ally uncomfortable -- our official vote on this 21 to really support the consensus process is to 22 ab stain from this vote. And I know all you all

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 232 1 vo ted to support it so we're going to abstain 2 be cause we're a little bit worried that, you know, 3 th e first -- or one of the first decisions that's 4 be ing made here is to strike the clause that says 5 yo u're not going to sue us after we, as a group of 6 in dividuals, work hard on this single agreement. 7 We're a little bit just -- you know, 8 we 're concerned with, you know, how that appears, 9 wh at that looks like, how that feels so we're 10 go ing to abstain. And then I assume that when you 11 ta ke a vote that the consensus will pass this 12 th rough. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So let's 14 ti ghten it up. I'm sorry, I shut my mic off. 15 Le t's tighten it up because I'm hearing that 16 st riking (c) and (e) for the highlighted language 17 is okay, right? Now, I'm going to deal with (f) 18 se parate, okay? So let me see a show of thumbs if 19 ev eryone's okay with striking (c) and (e) and 20 ad opting the highlighted language as amended. I'll 21 co me to (f) in a second. 22 (Calls for show of thumbs.)

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 233 1 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. I don't see any 2 th umbs down. 3 Now, then the last piece here is on (f) 4 an d we're looking at striking that as well. So 5 le t me see a show of thumbs if you're okay with 6 st riking (f). 7 (Calls for show of thumbs.) 8 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Quite a few 9 si deways, right, but no thumbs down so that is -- 10 th at's approval, okay? 11 And as we had gone through before Eileen 12 ha d walked you through the other rules that were 13 on here and everyone's okay with the remaining 14 ru les. 15 So believe it or not, that takes care of 16 th e Ground Rules except for the ones that you all 17 sa id that Richard wanted to -- you wanted to have 18 Ri chard work on and draft them all up. 19 MR. POTTS: Except I missed that. 20 (Laughter.) 21 MR. RAMIREZ: No, I'm just -- I'm 22 pl aying with Richard since he just walked in,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 234 1 ri ght? But that takes care of all the Ground 2 Ru les then, right? 3 MR. CYMBALSKY: Hold on one second. 4 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 5 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: So the 6 Gr ound Rules -- the parking lot, I guess, we got 7 it done. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 9 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) 10 ge t that (inaudible). 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 12 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 13 Th ank you. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, (inaudible). We 15 pa id the ticket. 16 (Laughter.) 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Good. 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Did you get 19 an y advice? 20 MS. HOFFMAN: (Inaudible). Okay. 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Do you want 22 to take Richard though since it (inaudible)?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 235 1 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, yeah. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, Richard. So what we 3 di d was: there was a pretty clear agreement on 4 st riking (c) and (e) and adopting that highlighted 5 la nguage -- 6 MR. POTTS: Okay. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: -- and the Group approved 8 th at. 9 Are you okay with that? 10 MR. POTTS: Oh, yes. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: And then I dealt with (f) 12 se parate since that seemed to be where the latest 13 st icking point was and the DOE abstained from that 14 vo te and it was approved as well. 15 Are you okay with that one? 16 MR. POTTS: Striking (f)? 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Striking (f). 18 MR. POTTS: Yeah. 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: So given that, the Ground 21 Ru les are accepted and move on. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Let me --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 236 1 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: My 2 (i naudible) is (inaudible). 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. All right. Given 4 th at, the Ground Rules are now accepted by consent 5

-- 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. And -- 7 MS. HOFFMAN: A consensus here. Okay. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: So now that we got the 9 ea sy -- 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Unanimous actually. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, we got the easy 12 st uff out of the way now, right? 13 (Laughter.) 14 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: And we're a 15 ha lf hour ahead of schedule on that. 16 MS. HOFFMAN: Right, yes. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Awesome. All right. Joe 18 is going to go over some analysis summary here. 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, that's -- 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Do you need a couple 21 mi nutes to get the technology, get your slides -- 22 do you have any slides or anything like that you

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 237 1 ne ed or no? 2 MR. HAGERMAN: Oh, yeah, we should have 3 sl ides. 4 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, it's 5 on my laptop. 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 7 MR. HAGERMAN: So John just joined us. 8 He is the representative of ASRAC that John 9 Cy mbalsky was sitting in for earlier this morning, 10 so maybe we get John to introduce himself and then 11 ma ybe quick introductions around the room just 12 re al quick? 13 MR. CYMBALSKY: Okay, great. 14 MR. CASKEY: Yeah. Sorry I couldn't be 15 he re earlier, but I work for NEMA, National 16 El ectrical Manufacturers Association, and we just 17 ha d a new CEO start today. His name is Kevin 18 Co sgriff. So replacing our previous CEO is Evan 19 Ga ddis. So we had to be there for briefings and 20 st uff like that, so sorry I missed it earlier. 21 I do a lot in the energy field. I 22 ma nage like 24 people. They're mostly program

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 238 1 ma nagers working in different energy related 2 pr oducts and different product sections within 3 NE MA, and then I also do a lot of work with smart 4 gr id and involved with the Smart Grid 5 In teroperability Panel, and several other 6 ac tivities sort of like that, so that's -- 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Quick. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Maybe were you suggesting 9 go ing around the room? 10 MR. HAGERMAN: I think so just because - 11 - 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 13 MR. HAGERMAN: -- John doesn't have very 14 mu ch exposure to, I don't think -- John, I'm 15 sp eaking for you here -- to the manufactured 16 ho using industry as a whole. So maybe if 17 ev erybody could just quickly just go through the 18 ro om and introduce themselves and who they really 19 re present, I think it'd be helpful for you. 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I think 21 th at'd be great. 22 MR. HAGERMAN: And John is very

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 239 1 fa miliar, obviously, with the rulemaking process 2 an d everything so. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. So should we start 4 wi th you again, Keith? 5 MR. DENNIS: Sure. Keith Dennis, for 6 In ternational Rural Electric -- 7 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Okay. 8 Pu sh the mic. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, put the -- 10 MR. DENNIS: Yeah. Keith Dennis, with 11 In ternational Rural Electric Cooperative 12 As sociation. We serve about 75 percent of 13 la ndmass with electricity and we have a 14 di sproportionate share of manufactured housing. 15 Ab out 14.7 percent of our membership is in 16 ma nufactured housing compared to about 6.5 percent 17 na tionwide so. 18 MR. CASKEY: Okay. Thank you. 19 MS. DICKENS: Good afternoon. Ishbel 20 Di ckens. I'm the Director of the National 21 Ma nufactured Home Owners Associate, so 22 re presenting the people who live and buy

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 240 1 ma nufactured homes. 2 MR. CASKEY: Okay. 3 MR. DRAKE: I am Scott Drake, with East 4 Ke ntucky Power, and I manage our energy efficiency 5 pr ograms. 6 MS. EPPERSON: I am Stacey Epperson, 7 Di rector of NextStep Network, which is a national 8 no nprofit network providing affordable housing 9 wi th manufactured housing for low-income home 10 bu yers. 11 MR. UNGAR: Mark Ezzo stepped out of the 12 ti me. 13 I'm Lowell Ungar, with American Council 14 fo r an Energy Efficient Economy. 15 MR. CASKEY: Okay. 16 MR. LACEY: I'm Eric Lacey, of the 17 Re sponsible Energy Codes Alliance and we 18 (i naudible) the adoption of the International 19 En ergy Conservation Code around the country. 20 MR. SANTANA: I am Manny Santana, with 21 Ca vco Homes. We are a manufactured home builder. 22 MR. CASKEY: Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 241 1 MR. LUTER: I'm Rob Luter, with Lippert 2 Co mponents, Elkhart, Indiana. Among other things, 3 we supply fenestration products to the 4 ma nufactured housing industry. 5 MR. CASKEY: All right. 6 MR. POTTS: Richard Potts, with the 7 Vi rginia Department -- thanks. Richard Potts, 8 wi th the Virginia Department of Housing and 9 Co mmunity Development. We are the state 10 ad ministrative agency for the manufactured -- 11 HU D's manufactured housing program in Virginia, 12 an d we also adopt the Building Code for the State. 13 MR. ROY: Robin Roy, Natural Resources 14 De fense Council. Good to see you again, John. 15 MR. CASKEY: Hi. How are you? 16 MR. ROY: My life is good. 17 MR. CASKEY: Good. 18 MR. WEISS: Mark Weiss, Manufactured 19 Ho using Association for Regulatory Reform. We're 20 ba sed here in Washington. We represent the 21 sm aller producers of manufactured housing. 22 MR. TOMPOS: Dave Tompos, from NTA.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 242 1 We 're a third-party testing and inspection agency. 2 MS. STARKEY: Lois Starkey, from the 3 Ma nufactured Housing Institute. We're the 4 Na tional Trade Association representing all 5 se ctors of the industry except for the homeowners 6

-- 7 MR. CASKEY: Okay. 8 MS. STARKEY: -- lenders, manufacturers, 9 su ppliers, land lease community owners. 10 MR. CASKEY: All right. Thanks. 11 MR. LEVY: Emanuel Levy, Executive 12 Di rector of the Assistance Building Research 13 Al liance. We're the research arm for the factory 14 bu ilding business. We also operate the Energy 15 St ar program for factory-built homes. 16 MR. CASKEY: Great. Thank you. 17 MR. HAGERMAN: Great. Thanks for 18 ev erybody to extend a welcome to John. 19 John, thanks for being here. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, I'm Eileen Hoffman -- 21 MR. CASKEY: All right. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: -- the one facilitator --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 243 1 MR. CASKEY: Hi there. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Hi. 3 MR. CASKEY: Hi. 4 MR. HAGERMAN: So I'm going to go over 5 ju st an analysis summary and I'm going to do 6 pr imarily three things here the next maybe four or 7 fi ve slides. 8 One, I'm going to disburse the NOPR 9 pr ocess so after you come up with a term sheet -- 10 af ter this Group come up with a term sheet, it's 11 DO E's responsibility to turn that term sheet into 12 a NOPR, if it's approved by the ASRAC and the 13 Se cretary, so I will go over that process a little 14 bi t. 15 I'm also going to just go over again 16 wh at DOE's obligation is to meet the -- our 17 st atutory authority, which obviously differs from 18 th e Working Group obligation, which is to develop 19 a term sheet for ASRAC and for the Secretary. 20 And then I'm going to tell you a little 21 bi t about some analysis that I got started at 22 (i naudible) maybe a week ago, 10 days ago to

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 244 1 an ticipation of this Group coming together and 2 th eir need to do some review of the 2015 IECC just 3 so you understand how it's changed over the 4 pr evious versions of the Code and how it also 5 co mpares to, you know, versions -- even outdated 6 ve rsions like 2006. I'll talk about that. 7 And I'll end with an offer to take into 8 co nsideration any other analysis or anything that 9 we can do to help jumpstart this Group's ability 10 to come up with a good Strawman so they can start 11 ta lking through all the different technical 12 co mponents that the Group needs to discuss and 13 dr aw a consensus from so. 14 All right. So the rulemaking process, 15 so this is the kind of traditional rulemaking 16 pr ocess where we'll do an advance notice for 17 pr oposed rulemaking. We'll publish that, we'll 18 ge t your comments, then we'll put out a NOPR and 19 th en we'll seek comments on that NOPR, and then 20 we 'll put it for final rule. 21 Where we are here in this process is: 22 instead of going through those initial

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 245 1 st ages or rounds of initial stages, you're to 2 de velop a term sheet. Of course, we've discussed 3 th at today in some detail. We've given you copies 4 of two term sheets from previous working group 5 ac tivities to look through. I really encourage 6 yo u, on your way home on the airplane, on the 7 dr ive -- well, not on the drive -- on the airplane 8 ho me, give a good read to that. I mean, it 9 de fines -- you know, they're not that long. And 10 in particular, it defines things like -- come up 11 wi th common definitions, coming up with test 12 pr ocedures, coming up with enforcement, stuff like 13 th at. 14 Obviously, the scope of this Working 15 Gr oup is to just focus on the standard and then, 16 as John said earlier -- John Cymbalsky said 17 ea rlier, if they want to make -- if this Group 18 wa nts to make a recommendation for ASRAC to think 19 ab out enforcement or to extend this Working Group 20 to think about enforcement, we can add that to the 21 te rm sheet or amend that so. 22 And again, if the Working Group reaches

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 246 1 ag reement on a proposed standard as presented to 2 AS RAC and if accepted by ASRAC, it's publish in 3 th e NOPR -- as a NOPR. 4 All right. So let me just review DOE's 5 ob ligation here, so this is our statutory 6 au thority. DOE must establish energy efficiency 7 st andards for manufactured housing. It must 8 pr ovide notice and opportunity for public comment 9 an d we must do so in consultation with the 10 Se cretary of Housing and Urban Development who may 11 se ek further counsel from their Manufactured 12 Ho using Consensus Committee. 13 The standards must be based on the most 14 re cent version of the IECC. And as everybody 15 kn ows, that was the 2015 version that I think was 16 pu blished maybe a month ago -- month and a half 17 ag o, something like that. So that is our trigger 18 fo r this meeting. 19 The IECC is not cost effective -- unless 20 th e IECC is not cost effective -- 21 (Laughter.) 22 MR. HAGERMAN: You've got to make sure

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 247 1 th at's clarified on the record there, right? I 2 ge t in trouble. 3 And last, a more stringent standard is 4 mo re cost effective and unless the cost 5 ef fectiveness is based on the impact of IECC on 6 th e purchase price of manufactured housing in the 7 to tal lifecycle, construction and operating costs. 8 And can standards -- standards may 9 co nsider the following: 10 The design and factory construction 11 te chniques of manufactured housing; 12 Th e use of HUD's climate zones rather than IECC's 13 cl imate zones; 14 An d alternative practices that yield equal or 15 le sser energy use. 16 All right. So again, the statute is 17 DO E's obligations. The obligations of this 18 Wo rking Group is to develop that term sheet. Once 19 th at term sheet is accepted by ASRAC and accepted 20 by the secretary, it's turned into a NOPR. And so 21 th is is like -- you know, there used to be a 22 li ttle cartoon how a bill becomes a law. This is

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 248 1 ho w a term sheet becomes a NOPR here. 2 So it goes through different rounds of 3 an alysis and the first one is the technology 4 as sessment. This is the review of the available 5 en ergy efficiency and measure options that can go 6 in to a manufactured house. I anticipate and my 7 pe rsonal opinion is: likely these are the types of 8 th ings that will be discussed heavily in this 9 Wo rking Group. 10 After that, a price efficiency analysis, 11 pr ice and energy used associated with -- of the 12 en ergy efficiency measure options is determined or 13 an alysis is run on the price and energy use 14 as sociated with energy efficient measures. 15 Then a lifecycle cost and national 16 im pact is done. That is the economic impact on 17 th e individual consumers and the consumers as a 18 wh ole. 19 And then we have environmental 20 as sessments and then regulatory impact analysis. 21 So those are those. 22 All right. And we can ask questions --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 249 1 yo u can stop me and you can ask questions or we 2 ca n go through this and you can ask questions. 3 Ho wever, you want to see (inaudible) here. I 4 do n't anticipate too many questions on the 5 pr evious two slides. 6 However, I want to announce that, you 7 kn ow, maybe 10 days ago I asked Pacific Northwest 8 Na tional Lab to prepare an energy analysis of the 9 2015 IECC. So what I asked them to do 10 is : compare the current manufactured housing 11 en ergy use to an energy use expected by a 12 ma nufactured housing constructed to the 2015 IECC 13 re quirements and then also compare it to the 2006, 14 20 09 and 2012 goods. As you know -- go ahead. 15 MR. LUTER: Just a question. What 16 ba seline are they using for current -- 17 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Push 18 th e mic. 19 MR. LUTER: -- MH energy use? 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, push the -- 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Name and mic. 22 MR. LUTER: Oh, I'm sorry.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 250 1 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Two 2 de merits. 3 MR. LUTER: Two demerits. Robert Luter, 4 wi th Lippert Components. What baseline is the 5 la boratory using for the current MH energy use; do 6 we know that? 7 MR. HAGERMAN: They'll explain that in 8 th eir -- in the Report that they provide. That's 9 th e best way for me to answer that. 10 MR. LUTER: Do we have -- 11 MR. HAGERMAN: What they've done is they 12

-- 13 MR. LUTER: -- (inaudible) timing on 14 th at Report? 15 MR. HAGERMAN: Yes, I'll give that in a 16 se cond. 17 MR. LUTER: Okay. 18 MR. HAGERMAN: I can -- so what they've 19 do ne here is: they build energy models with the 20 va lues that are cited in the different Code 21 ve rsions, and then they run those energy models 22 th rough some software that we have that DOE

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 251 1 ma intains called "Energy Plus" and that gives you 2 th e annual energy usage of the house. Now, of 3 co urse, there's a lot of assumptions in that like, 4 yo u know, what are the schedules of the house, 5 wh at's the draw patterns on the water heater, all 6 th at type of things, right? So you'll see all 7 th at written in the Report. 8 You can -- well, whenever we have this 9 di scussion, you can tell who the engineers are in 10 th e room. So as you read the 2015 Code, we've had 11 to throw out some of the Code language that 12 ob viously won't apply to manufactured homes like 13 su nrooms, I believe is talked about in the 2015 14 IE CC, and they'll make distinctions in their 15 Re port as to what has been modified to the 2015 16 IE CC so you'll see that. And they're using the 17 en ergy analysis software called "EnergyPlus." 18 They're supposed to deliver -- even 19 th ough General Counsel's Office doesn't like me to 20 sa y this, they're supposed to deliver that Report 21 to me on Friday in which case we need to go 22 th rough some review of that just to make sure all

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 252 1 th e data's right and check it, and so we're going 2 to try to get that out to the Working Group 3 me mbers as soon as possible as early as next week, 4 if we can, okay? 5 And also, I'd like to say, too, that 6 we 're very receptive right now to receiving other 7 in formation that you may have that could help us 8 pr epare this or any other relevant analysis or 9 an ything that you want to provide us that says, 10 yo u know, we should examine different levels or 11 di fferent options to the 2015 or the 2012 or the 12 20 09. So if things that you already know as an 13 in dustry that won't work in 2012 or 2015 let us 14 kn ow, right, and we'll be happy to add another 15 ta ble to their analysis with those models run as 16 we ll. 17 So that was really a teaser more than 18 an ything else. So I hope to send that out next 19 we ek after (inaudible) gives me quick concurrence 20 on it and we'll take it from there. And that's 21 al l I have. 22 Any questions over that?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 253 1 MR. LEVY: Emanuel Levy. Joe, are you 2 ex pecting that that analysis will include 3 li fecycle costs, evaluations of measures? 4 MR. HAGERMAN: No, it's just the annual 5 en ergy. The -- both Navigant and Pacific 6 No rthwest National Lab are ready to do quick 7 an alysis for this Working Group as, you know, you 8 di scuss the levels and different requirements that 9 sh ould be considered or not. 10 MR. LEVY: Right. 11 MR. HAGERMAN: And they can easily do 12 th e lifecycle analysis for us. 13 MR. LEVY: Yeah. 14 MR. CASKEY: John Caskey, with NEMA. As 15 yo u said, I don't know a lot about this industry, 16 bu t dealing with the environmental assessment, 17 ce rtainly I understand the environmental 18 as sessment associated with energy use and things 19 li ke that and/or the lack of energy use. 20 But dealing with indoor air quality, is 21 th at -- how is that taken into account and where 22 is the analysis done on that?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 254 1 MR. HAGERMAN: That's a better question, 2 I think, for most of the stakeholders here. Our 3 so ftware packages don't consider indoor air 4 qu ality straight so I do see that as a technical 5 is sue that will quickly come up as we get -- as we 6 st art to map the technical issues that we believe 7 th is Committee is going to have to go through. 8 MR. CASKEY: Okay. 9 MR. HAGERMAN: But we are always 10 re ceptive to reports on indoor air quality impacts 11 an d manufactured housing. 12 No other questions? 13 (No audible response.) 14 MR. HAGERMAN: All right. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Dates. Now we're going to 16 lo ok at potential dates for everyone to come back. 17 MS. DICKENS: Before you do that? 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. 19 MS. DICKENS: I mean, I have a question 20 ab out our current schedule. 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Sure. 22 MS. DICKENS: When we originally got the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 255 1 in vitation to be part of this Committee -- sorry, 2 th is is Ishbel -- we were told that the meetings 3 we re Monday and Tuesday of this week from 9:00 4 un til 5:00, and I noticed that we're now ending 5 po tentially at 3:30 tomorrow afternoon and that's 6

-- that impacts people like me who are traveling. 7 If we'd known we were going to end at 3:30, we 8 co uld have got flights out tomorrow but, instead, 9 we 're having to stay an extra night to get flights 10 ou t the next day. 11 Is there any reason why we can't 12 co ntinue our work until 5:00 p.m. tomorrow to 13 ma ybe move us a little bit further forward rather 14 th an stopping at 3:30 when most of us are already 15 pl anning to be here until 5:00? 16 MR. RAMIREZ: Let me chime in before 17 ev eryone jumps onboard with this. To give you a 18 li ttle idea of how tomorrow's going to look, 19 to morrow what we're planning on doing was to give 20 yo u all an opportunity to identify what are the 21 is sues. And I had mentioned that a little bit 22 ea rlier and I want to give you an idea of how

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 256 1 th at's going to look. 2 So probably what we're going to do is: 3 we're going to try to capture them all. 4 We call this a "Mind Map" and not -- we will have 5 to get into some of it, as far as understanding 6 go es, but we want to capture all of what the 7 is sues are going to be. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: (Inaudible). 9 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, it's on your last 10 pa ge of your packet. As well as identify what 11 in formation's going to be needed, what data's out 12 th ere, what information are we going to need in 13 or der problem-solve these, and then prioritize 14 th em. So, you know, as far as us, as facilitators 15 go , we don't have a problem staying. 16 MS. HOFFMAN: No. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Eileen's from DC. She can 18 st ay as late as she wants. And my flight's not 19 ti ll later. I could -- because I was under the 20 as sumption as well that we were going to be here 21 la ter so I caught the latest flight out. So as 22 fa r as facilitators go, we don't have a problem

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 257 1 co ntinuing. 2 The only reason I'm mentioning this is 3 be cause sometimes folks want to be able to have 4 th at information before they actually start 5 pr oblem-solving and that's why we thought that we 6 wo uld end at 3:00 after we had sufficient time to 7 ga ther the issues, identify the information that 8 wa s going to be needed, and then schedule the next 9 (i naudible) to be to start problem-solving. That's 10 wh at the thinking was. But if you all want to 11 co ntinue, we're receptive to it. 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: So with that, I'll leave 14 th e discussion up to the Group. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: In other words, the room 16 ca n meet till 5:00? 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Right. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: The room can meet till 19 5: 00 and we can meet till 5:00. We were just sort 20 of looking at how it might go tomorrow so we're 21 re ally interested in your views. 22 MS. DICKENS: And is there a way we can

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 258 1 ge t any of these materials first thing in the 2 mo rning so we'd have them to continue looking at 3 ti ll 5:00 or do we have to wait until after we've 4 id entified all the issues before we get even 5 ma terials? 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, I think we need to 7 id entify them all and then go see what 8 in formation's needed on each one. 9 MS. DICKENS: So we couldn't maybe 10 id entify a couple earlier in the day and then have 11 so me -- like we did today, we got some information 12 ri ght away. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh, I don't think there's 14 an y problem. If the information's available, why 15 no t? 16 MS. DICKENS: Yeah. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: I don't see any problem 18 wi th that, okay? 19 MS. DICKENS: Yeah, yeah. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: If it's available. 21 MS. DICKENS: I'm just trying to be as 22 ef ficient as possible, I suppose.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 259 1 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, yeah. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes, Robin? 3 MR. ROY: Robin Roy. Presume we did do 4 a considerable amount of work -- 5 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Push 6 th e mic please. 7 MR. ROY: Speak into the mic? 8 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible). 9 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Is it not 10 on ? 11 MR. ROY: Oh. Robin Roy. Presume we 12 di d a lot of work in its earlier draft that wasn't 13 se nt over (inaudible) both technical support 14 do cument and a NOPR that addresses many of these 15 ki nds of issues, while that's certainly not an 16 ad equate and appropriate reflection of what your 17 po sition is now, it might be useful to share some 18 of that thinking with this Group as a starting 19 po int for discussion. It might circumvent a lot 20 of unnecessary wheel-spinning and give us a decent 21 he ad start on much of this; is that possible? 22 MR. HAGERMAN: You know, I can say that

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 260 1 th e Pacific Northwest National Lab analysis 2 in cludes energy models. I would say the same 3 en ergy models that were used in previous analysis 4 or versions of analysis and all that they're doing 5 is update the -- it from 2012 to 2015 and 6 re running the whole set. So I don't know if I'm 7 an swering your question, but, yes, I think you get 8 th at pretty quickly. 9 MR. ROY: Well, for example, like on 10 fi nancing, which may not be part of their -- the 11 mo del for what's MH using under the 2015, you 12 pr obably presumably have given some fair amount of 13 th ought to what the nature of financing for this 14 pa rticular subset of the community looks like, and 15 th at won't show up in the PNNL document on Friday. 16 I suspect that sort of issue is true for indoor 17 ai r quality and several of these things here. 18 It could be very useful to have some of 19 th at information, which you've clearly had to 20 th ink a great deal about today and which many of 21 th e folks here are great experts in. But it would 22 be a good -- I would think it's a good starting

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 261 1 po int for them to start reflecting on something 2 ra ther than to really go from whole cloth and 3 st art from there, more than just what's going to 4 be in the PNNL Report. 5 MR. HAGERMAN: I think, you know -- I 6 do n't know if -- you want the best way to just 7 ci rculating things, right? I mean, is it easier 8 to start mapping out all the different, you know, 9 is sues and then you ask for materials that relate 10 to those issues and us provide those issues to 11 yo u? I mean, that's for the whole Working Group 12 to consider. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, one thing that at 14 le ast that was going through our heads was that -- 15 an d we see it time and time again with various 16 ne gotiations, not necessarily just, you know, 17 ru lemaking -- is that people request a bunch of 18 da ta that's never even looked at, right? And so I 19 th ink that the thinking was is that let's make 20 th is -- let's make a target, right? Let's make it 21 so that we can be efficient. Let's figure out 22 ex actly what do we need. That's what we'll

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 262 1 ga ther, that's what we'll give you and that's what 2 we 'll use to problem-solve. 3 MR. WEISS: I agree with Robin. Mark 4 We iss, for MHARR. I agree with Robin, I think it 5 wo uld be helpful to have the previous material 6 de veloped by DOE to look at, and I would join in 7 th at request. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Can I get a sense of the 9 Gr oup? 10 Are you all familiar with the material 11 th at's being discussed or mentioned here? 12 MS. DICKENS: Well, I think it'd be 13 gr eat to see it because sometimes you don't know 14 wh at to ask for if you don't know what's out 15 th ere, so if we get a sense of what's already 16 av ailable, that may be a jumping off point, at 17 le ast on some of the aspects we're looking at. 18 MR. HAGERMAN: I think we can 19 ac commodate that. It's going to -- 20 MS. HOFFMAN: So how will -- 21 MR. HAGERMAN: Just the one thing to 22 no te again that the scope of that was 2012 and

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 263 1 th ere has been changes from 2012 to 2015 so. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: And when might that be 3 av ailable then? 4 MR. HAGERMAN: I'd have to -- 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Check? 6 MR. HAGERMAN: -- check, yeah. 7 MS. HOFFMAN: So it's possible you -- 8 MR. HAGERMAN: As soon as I can get it 9 to you. 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 11 MR. HAGERMAN: I mean, I think we've 12 be en pretty fast at -- 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 14 MR. HAGERMAN: You know, if you've asked 15 fo r something, if we've been trying to, you know - 16 - 17 MS. HOFFMAN: So if you get it tonight - 18 - 19 MR. HAGERMAN: -- we don't want to do it 20

-- 21 MS. HOFFMAN: -- then tomorrow? 22 MR. HAGERMAN: As soon as possible.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 264 1 (Laughter.) 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. I hear you. 3 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Ask him 4 wh at -- 5 MR. HAGERMAN: (Inaudible)? 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Rob? 7 MR. LUTER: Well, just to comment that 8 th is is predicated on the most recent 9 In ternational -- or IECC Code, which five weeks 10 ag o was the 2012. 11 MR. HAGERMAN: Right. 12 MR. LUTER: So my guess is: there's 13 re ally not that much change that we couldn't see 14 th e thought processes on the first one. 15 If it was five weeks ago, we wouldn't be 16 ha ving this conversation, correct? I mean, to 17 st ate that, "Well, there's been changes and we've 18 go t to -- 19 MR. HAGERMAN: Well, there's a lot 20 ch anges then by the 2012 to 2015 Codes, right? And 21 th at's a three-year process that they revised the 22 Co de under so is that what you mean? It just got

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 265 1 pu blished four weeks ago -- five weeks ago. 2 MR. LUTER: Understood. My -- 3 MR. HAGERMAN: It encompasses three -- 4 MR. LUTER: -- understanding -- 5 MR. HAGERMAN: -- years' worth of work. 6 MR. LUTER: -- and I don't claim to be - 7 - 8 MR. HAGERMAN: Right. 9 MR. LUTER: -- an expert on the 2015 10 ve rsion -- is that while some of the performance 11 le vels of prescriptive requirements have changed 12 so mewhat, it's essentially the same Code. Now the 13 ba r is a little higher, okay? There was some 14 th ought processes that went into getting us to the 15 fi rst bar. 16 MR. HAGERMAN: Right. 17 MR. LUTER: They're going to be the same 18 on es that are going to take us to the second bar - 19 - 20 MR. HAGERMAN: Right. 21 MR. LUTER: -- if we decide to go as far 22 as --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 266 1 MR. HAGERMAN: Right. 2 MR. LUTER: -- the second bar so. 3 MR. HAGERMAN: And we're definitely 4 co mmitted to getting you those materials as soon 5 as possible. 6 MR. LUTER: Okay. That's fine, thank 7 yo u. 8 MR. SANTANA: Manny, with Cavco. Since 9 th is is about updating the energy standards for 10 th e HUD Code, is everybody familiar with what the 11 HU D -- about what energy aspects the HUD Code 12 cu rrently requires? 13 MR. EZZO: Yes. 14 MR. SANTANA: You are. 15 (Laughter.) 16 MR. SANTANA: I mean, is that a better 17 pl ace to start, you know, search? We also -- 18 be cause -- so we're discussing distributing what 19 DO E proposed or has been working on. 20 Does everybody have access and 21 un derstand what the baseline is, you know, what 22 we 're trying to improve? Because we don't want to

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 267 1 st art and say, "Okay. Well, we've got" -- not 2 ca lling the HUD Code a Pinto, "But we've got a 3 Pi nto, you know, and DOE's been working on Ferrari 4 an d this will" -- if we don't see what we have to 5 st art with, there might be a kazman (ph) between 6 it without what DOE's been working on. We should 7 es tablish some kind of baseline. 8 MR. EZZO: (Inaudible). I believe your 9 an alogy is (inaudible). 10 (Laughter.) 11 MR. EZZO: A baseline? 12 MR. SANTANA: A Corolla, how about a 13 Co rolla? 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, gee, a Pinto. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: Eric? 16 MR. LACEY: I'm Eric Lacey. I just 17 wa nted to circle back on what Robert Luter said. I 18 sa t through all the hearings on the IECC 2015 and 19 I think there are about 40 changes to the 20 Re sidential Code and almost -- most of them are 21 no t really going to be a big impact here. In 22 fa ct, I think there are very, very few that will

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 268 1 ha ve any real meaningful impact in terms of energy 2 ef ficiency or cost effectiveness. 3 So I do think any analysis, you know, 4 ba sed on the 2012 IECC, is going to be -- it's 5 go ing to be very relevant. It might not be 6 ex actly the same, but I think it's going to be 7 ve ry close. 8 So I think, you know, to the extent that 9 yo u can make any materials available on the 2012, 10 I think very, very little of that is going to 11 ch ange in the 2015. So that -- in some ways, I 12 th ink that's an advantage that helps speed up this 13 pr ocess. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. I'll tell you 15 wh at -- 16 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: This is Kavita 17 Va idyanathan. I just want to clarify. I just 18 wa nt to let you know that we're happy to give you 19 th at analysis, but just realize that it was in 20 dr aft form. It never went out onto a NOPR or a 21 fi nal rule, so just to keep that information in 22 mi nd when we do give out the analysis. Don't

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 269 1 th ink that it was DOE's final position in any of 2 th ese aspects. 3 MR. HAGERMAN: Right. And to second 4 th at, just say, too, if you have any information 5 th at I could share with the people that are 6 up dating the energy simulation runs right now from 7 '1 2 to '15 -- oh, and changes to '12 or changes to 8 '1 5 that specifically impact manufactured housing, 9 le t me know and I can get that cued up for 10 ev erybody, all right? 11 So if like, Manny, if you already know 12 so me things do work, don't work, et cetera, 13 pr ovide those to us as quickly as possible and 14 we 'll put that in as a column of analysis that 15 th ey can, you know, quickly do so -- quickly run. 16 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So before we 17 ge t too far off -- 18 MR. HAGERMAN: Oh, we did get one 19 qu estion from Michael Lubliner. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 21 MR. HAGERMAN: So Michael Lubliner has 22 be en listening this whole time. He says, "Does

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 270 1 th e PNNL analysis evaluate hot water options such 2 as pipe insulation, heat pump, water heaters, 3 ot her appliance options such as Energy Star 4 re frigerators," et cetera, et cetera? 5 And so Michael's -- to answer Michael's 6 qu estion, I don't actually know yet in terms of 7 al l the different combinations that they run -- or 8 th at they are running for us. They're doing it 9 in , you know, a short time frame, 10 days, but I 10 wi ll make sure that they list all those 11 as sumptions in the analysis that they provide so. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So before we 13 ge t too far off on that, we're talking about dates 14 th at we could do that, that we could spend some 15 ti me if we need to identify other documents, 16 ri ght? We could spend a little bit more time 17 do ing that before you open up for public comment. 18 So as far as dates go, we do have -- oh, you know 19 wh at? Yeah, we didn't (inaudible) did we for 20 to morrow? 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. Yeah, we need to 22 kn ow if you'd like to stay till 5:00? We are

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 271 1 av ailable. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So -- 3 MS. HOFFMAN: So -- 4 MR. RAMIREZ: -- you know what? Let's 5 do -- 6 MR. ROY: It depends to me a little bit 7 wh ether we can get some of that material before 8 th en. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. 10 MR. ROY: That would make it useful. 11 MS. HOFFMAN: So -- 12 MR. ROY: Otherwise, you'll just be 13 st anding here. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. 15 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, 16 (i naudible). 17 MS. HOFFMAN: Why don't we -- 18 MR. ROY: Yeah, I'm not -- 19 MS. HOFFMAN: -- do a status check at 20 3: 00 and we'll know and -- 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 272 1 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Because -- okay. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: So the Group may stay as 4 la te as 5:00. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. We're not going 6 an y longer than 5:00 so -- okay? 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: So future dates when -- 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Right, yeah. We're future 11 da tes and -- 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, I'm bringing up 13 th eir calendars. 14 (Voices off record.) 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Well, we think that's it, 16 ye ah. Okay. 17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Is this for 18 an other case (inaudible)? 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. Yeah. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, we're going to try 21 to get a few of them on the books here. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. So we have two dates

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 273 1 in August and then three sets of dates for 2 Se ptember. 3 So we have August 28th and 29th here at 4 DO E. 5 MR. WEISS: Well, I can't do that. I 6 ha ve non-refundable reservations. It's right 7 be fore Labor Day. 8 MS. STARKEY: I'll be out of the 9 co untry. 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: My wife's 11 bi rthday on the 28th. 12 (Laughter.) 13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I'm 14 (i naudible). 15 MR. RAMIREZ: You don't want to bring 16 he r to DC? 17 MS. HOFFMAN: You don't want to -- 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: There you 19 go . 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Well, let me see. 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Would 22 ea rlier that week be better?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 274 1 MS. HOFFMAN: All right. The -- 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The week 3 be fore the holiday. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: The 25th and 26th, will 5 th at work? 6 MR. UNGAR: Talking August? 7 MS. HOFFMAN: August. 8 MR. UNGAR: The 21st -- 22nd? 9 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 10 MS. EPPERSON: I'll be unable to on the 11 26 th. I'll be in New York. 12 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: So will I. 13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I think 14 (i naudible) as well. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, it's going to be 16 ha rd to do this (inaudible). 17 MS. EPPERSON: Yeah, it is. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: I'm glad you're all here 19 an d Michael, too, on the phone. 20 MS. EPPERSON: Yes, ma'am. 21 MR. DRAKE: I suspect the 25th and 26th 22 is going to be better for the Group --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 275 1 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Same 2 (i naudible). 3 MS. HOFFMAN: For the Group. 4 MR. DRAKE: -- compared to the latter 5 pa rt of the week because it's -- 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 7 MR. DRAKE: -- bumping up against a 8 na tional holiday. 9 MR. WEISS: And unfortunately, I'm gone 10 th e whole week. 11 MS. HOFFMAN: You're gone the whole 12 we ek. 13 MR. WEISS: How about the week before? 14 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, the 15 we ek before? 16 MR. WEISS: Maybe that'd be better. 17 MS. HOFFMAN: Let me see. 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The week 19 be fore (inaudible). 20 MS. HOFFMAN: The 21st -- 22nd? Let me 21 ju st see what -- hold on. 22 What did I do with the dates?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 276 1 The 21st and 22nd, does that work? 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Unh-huh 3 (n egatively). 4 MS. HOFFMAN: Let's see, August -- 21st 5 an d 22nd, does that work better? No? For both 6 th e -- for both dates you can't do it? 7 MR. UNGAR: I may be able to call in a 8 co uple hours on the 21st but, you know, 9 (i naudible). 10 MR. HAGERMAN: Do feel comfortable 11 se nding a delegate? 12 MR. UNGAR: Everybody from our 13 or ganization will be at the conference that day. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, it's a conference, oh. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 16 MR. UNGAR: (inaudible) knowledge of the 17 su bject. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, let me back up 19 be cause it seems like quite a few folks were about 20 to give the -- 21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: But I hate 22 to do (inaudible) this year.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 277 1 MR. RAMIREZ: The (inaudible) be able to 2 do the 25th and 26th. 3 Can you get a delegate in? 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Counsel, I'm 5 go ne that weekend (inaudible). 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That 7 we ekend's really tough. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Right, tough. So if we 9 di d the 21st and 22nd, we have rooms here, A, D. 10 MR. LUTER: How about the 20th and 21st? 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Looks like 12 th e 21st and 22nd (inaudible). 13 MS. HOFFMAN: But the 21st and 22nd 14 so unds like it's going to work better. 15 Can -- well, how many people can do the 16

-- 17 MR. HAGERMAN: All we need is two-thirds 18

-- 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Two-thirds. 20 MR. HAGERMAN: -- to agree with this. 21 (Laughter.) 22 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Well, you

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 278 1 ev en commented (inaudible). 2 MR. HAGERMAN: But you can sue us later. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 4 MR. HAGERMAN: I'm just joking, 5 ev erybody, just to -- 6 MR. RAMIREZ: We're going to have to 7 po ssibly use alternates if need be. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, right. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: And also remember, you 10 co uld still vote -- use the -- 11 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: -- webinar and call in. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: We were checking regularly 15 to make sure that there are some comments, if any, 16 so . 17 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. So let's say at 18 th is point the 21st and 22nd? 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, see the thumbs 20 (i naudible). 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Nine to 5:00? 22 Who can do it? Let's see.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 279 1 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) 2 my alternate. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, alternate? Okay. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. Okay. 5 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, 6 ye ah. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. So we've got a 9 cr itical mass. Not that you're not critical but - 10 - 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 13 MR. LUTER: Well, wait -- the online 14 ve rsion is like a GoToMeeting -- 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. 16 MR. LUTER: -- or a webinar or -- 17 MR. RAMIREZ: GoToMeeting, I guess. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. It's a GoToMeeting, 19 ye ah. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: GoToMeeting. 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. So that's our next 22 me eting. Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 280 1 And yes? 2 MS. DICKENS: Okay. If you could -- 3 co uld you ask the people on the phone if they're 4 ge tting really good -- if they're hearing 5 ev erything really well? I'd just like to know 6 wh ether it's worth just trying it that way for 7 ne xt time. 8 Will you ask them? Thank you. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: You could send a delegate 10 an d do that as well. 11 MS. DICKENS: That's not (inaudible) 12 be cause I've got someone who lives here and I can 13 li sten in (inaudible) or something? 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm 15 so rry, there's no dates. Okay. 16 The next possible dates we've got are 17 Se ptember 11th and 12th. 18 Does that work? 19 MS. DICKENS: No, it does not work for 20 me . 21 MS. HOFFMAN: I get a number of -- 22 MS. DICKENS: I (inaudible) always

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 281 1 (i naudible). 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I don't know 3 th at we filed (inaudible). 4 MS. HOFFMAN: How about any other dates 5 in that week in September? 6 MS. DICKENS: The 9th and 10th I could. 7 MS. HOFFMAN: The 9th? 8 MS. DICKENS: On Monday, the 9th, yeah. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Let's see. We don't have 10 ro oms. 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I could make 12 th e 9th and 10th work. 13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Is it worth 14 it ? 15 (Voices off record.) 16 MS. HOFFMAN: I think. Let me just see. 17 Sh e's got all the rooms done. We don't have rooms 18 he re and we don't rooms here. 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, we don't have rooms 20 on those days. 21 MS. HOFFMAN: No. 22 MS. DICKENS: The 16th and 17th?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 282 1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: No. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: You can find -- probably 3 fi nd some rooms? Okay. So we can do the 9th and 4 10 th. They'll find rooms here, okay? 5 MR. LUTER: When you say, "Find rooms," 6 me eting rooms. 7 MS. HOFFMAN: Meeting rooms, yes. Yeah, 8 me eting rooms. So we'll do the 9th and 10th here. 9 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 9th and 10 10 th. September 9th. 11 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. So our next set is 12 De cember -- I'm sorry, September 9th and 10th, at 13 DO E. 14 All right. Next, what about September 15 22 nd and 23rd; does that work? That looks like a 16 go od critical -- good. Okay. 17 So September 22nd and 23rd, DOE. And 18 yo u have rooms here to go to. Okay. And I don't 19 kn ow if you want me to keep going. We're -- you - 20 - we may know by then where we're heading. 21 Do you want me to schedule anything 22 fu rther?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 283 1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: One more. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: One more. Okay. 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Just in 4 ca se. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Let's see, we've got a 6 me eting, unfortunately, the two of us on the 29th 7 an d the morning of the 30th, but we could do 8 Oc tober 1st and 2nd. Not 1st and 2nd, that's a 9 ho liday -- 2nd and 3rd. 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That's the 11 (i naudible) deadline. 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, it's 13 go ing through a deadline. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: That goes in -- 15 MR. HAGERMAN: Why don't we -- I think 16 we have to be done by then, but just in case we 17 ne ed to extend it couple of days, let's go ahead 18 an d get it locked up. 19 MS. EPPERSON: (Inaudible). 20 MR. HAGERMAN: It's a failsafe. 21 MS. HOFFMAN: The 2nd and 3rd? 22 If it's a holiday, do you want us to do

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 284 1 th e 3rd and 4th? 2 MS. EPPERSON: Well, the 4th is a 3 Sa turday. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, right, I'm gone. 5 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Which 6 ho liday is it? 7 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Let me get 8

-- which holiday's on the 1st? 9 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah, I think you -- 10 th ere's not -- 11 MS. HOFFMAN: October -- 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: My birthday 13 at least. 14 MS. EPPERSON: Well, of course. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: October the 1st. 16 MR. RAMIREZ: October -- 17 MS. HOFFMAN: What holiday is the 1st? 18 MR. RAMIREZ: It's not. 19 MS. HOFFMAN: There's nothing, no. 20 So the 1st and 2nd we can do, okay? 21 We 'll have that as a failsafe, okay? 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Is that the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 285 1 1s t and 2nd? 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Right. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: Of October. So let me 5 ju st review the dates we have, okay? 6 August 21st and 22nd; 7 Se ptember 9th and 10th; 8 Se ptember 22nd and 23rd; 9 An d then October 1st and 2nd. 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Would those 11 al l be -- start at 9:00, end at -- 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Nine, yes. Yeah, let make 13 as k because is it easier for some folks that are 14 ta king a train, does 9:00 work or do you -- 15 MR. SANTANA: Ten would be better. 16 MS. HOFFMAN: Ten would be better for 17 yo u, Manuel. 18 Anybody else or do you -- 19 MR. SANTANA: I can make it 9:00, yeah. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. All right. So 21 we 'll do 9:00 to 5:00. Okay. All right. And 22 we 'll, you know, put that down. And if you can't

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 286 1 ma ke it, we'll -- we have the GoToMeeting and you 2 al so have alternates and there's no -- 3 un fortunately, there's no universal one day 4 ev eryone can do it. Okay. 5 MR. LUTER: Rob, with Lippert. 6 Are the participants in the GoToMeeting 7 fu nding this effective? 8 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I think 9 so . 10 MR. RAMIREZ: Could we get any comments 11 on that? 12 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I think 13 so . Yeah, (inaudible) said they hear (inaudible). 14 MR. LUTER: Okay, great. 15 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I have 16 (i naudible). 17 MR. LUTER: I've used it with brought 18 su ccess in other organizations and -- 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Can you just ask them if 20 th ey feel that they're participating and ask them 21 ho w they really feel? Okay. All right. 22 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Why

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 287 1 (i naudible)? 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: So we've got dates. And 5 al so, I think now, do you want to do a little bit 6 of interest base in (inaudible)? 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Because it's -- 9 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. So we heard that 10 yo u all are going to be looking for some 11 in formation to help identify what your issues are 12 an d part of what we want to do is: we don't want 13 yo u to necessarily come in and get locked in on 14 yo ur positions, right, of what your options are. 15 We want to first identify what are the 16 is sues and why? And so we want to -- that's what 17 we want to spend the time on tomorrow just 18 id entifying them, why are they issues and then 19 al so identifying that information. 20 And when we talk about, you know, 21 fo cusing on the interest, we find a lot of times 22 pa rties are arguing back and forth and we find out

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 288 1 th at if they understood the real reason why they 2 wa nted something, it opens up the door to far more 3 po ssibilities, right? I can't tell you how many 4 ti mes I've been in mediation where I'll come in 5 an d I'll tell the folks -- or I'll ask them, 6 th ey're going back and forth, "Why do you need 7 th is?" And I get the understanding, I go back 8 in to the other room and I'll tell them, "Well, 9 th is is why they're -- you know, they want it." 10 An d you'd be shocked after about a year of them 11 ne gotiating and I explained that and they say, 12 "O h, we could do that. Not that way, but we could 13 do it, right?" Because they just never 14 un derstood. They never explained why something 15 wa s needed. So we really want to make sure that 16 we spend the time to do that so the what and the 17 wh y before we start getting into the hows, okay? 18 Did you want to add something onto that? 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Well, just to look at not 20 on ly your own interests, but what are everyone 21 el se's too and how we can maybe reach some sort of 22 mu tual interest and also legitimate separate

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 289 1 in terest that everyone has, but how we can help 2 to gether devise a standard that will actually 3 re flect the positive thing for everybody, if 4 th at's at all possible. 5 And the other thing is to look at the 6 go als, you know, of this process and to reach a 7 ru le that works, that makes sense. I think -- do 8 yo u want to use the Mind Map just to see... 9 MR. RAMIREZ: I don't keep Mind Maps. 10 MS. HOFFMAN: ...if they can agree on 11 th e issues to look at, to think about for 12 to morrow? 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, yeah. See, these 14 ar e -- what we're trying to do with the Mind Map 15 wa s to use this as a starting off point. From 16 wh at we understand, these were some of the obvious 17 is sues that were going to be identified and so we 18 th rew them up here, right? So we have hotter IECC 19 20 15 climate zones; Manufactured housing types 20 th at need to be treated differently; Alternative 21 co nstruction; Climate zone impacts on single 22 ve rsus double or other specialty types;

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 290 1 In door air quality; Financing; Impact on EP's 2 En ergy Star program for manufactured housing. 3 From we understand, those were some of 4 th e blatant ones, right? We, ideally, would like 5 to -- for you to come in and say, "Okay. These 6 ar e other ones, right?" That would be headlines 7 ve rsions, that we call them the "headline" version 8 be cause otherwise we're not going to be able to 9 pu t a whole paragraph up on here. We could, 10 ri ght, but then for you to see them and read them, 11 it 's going to start getting difficult. 12 We could make this so you could see them 13 a little bit better if you wanted to focus on one 14 pa rticular issue. So that's what we're going to 15 ho pefully start off on tomorrow. And at that 16 ti me, if you want to take a little bit of time to 17 te ll the story and help develop the underground, 18 we 'll allow for that time but at some point, we're 19 go ing to try capture into just a little headline 20 fo r the map, okay? 21 MS. HOFFMAN: But when you came in 22 to day, was there a major issue for each of you? I

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 291 1 wo uld like to sort of brainstorm what that might 2 be . 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh, do you want to do that 4 no w? 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Well, we have till -- 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We've got 7 ti me. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: We've got time so -- 9 MR. RAMIREZ: What are they? 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. I thought I'd go 11 ar ound -- yes? 12 MR. LEVY: Can I -- I have a list of 13 is sues. I looked at this earlier, but I'm just 14 wo ndering where these came from -- Emanuel Levy -- 15 wh ere these particular items came from and why you 16 th ought alternative construction, for example, 17 me rited being at that level is energy (inaudible). 18 MR. RAMIREZ: There's no -- I'll tell 19 yo u right now, there's no level on here, right, 20 be cause we're just trying to capture them. We 21 ju st threw him on here for memory because, look, 22 on ce we get them all up there -- do you see what

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 292 1 I' m doing over here? 2 Well, I got this little thing over here. 3 I grabbed what was Number 7 and I just -- I'm 4 dr opping it over here, right? Right now, as a 5 ma tter fact, it don't even help you. I'll take 6 th e numbering off. There's no priority right now 7 so after we put all the issues up there, we agree 8 on which ones the Group is going to tackle and 9 th en we prioritize them, which we can do first, 10 se cond, third. So, no, there's no priority at all 11 on here. 12 Can we just find a -- it -- we just 13 we nt, throw it up there. 14 MR. LEVY: I'm delighted to suggest that 15 an other set -- 16 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 17 MR. LEVY: -- based upon this, is a 18 st arting point. 19 Climate zones, I think, is certainly -- 20 I mean, these are all issues that are part of and 21 pa rcel of a standard. They usually come up as 22 im portant elements that can be broken away and

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 293 1 ta lked about individually. Climate zones, I 2 th ink, is definitely an issue. 3 HUD, IECC and others. 4 Envelope thermal requirements, which is 5 go ing to probably be a huge issue. 6 Equipment HVAC and DHW issues getting in 7 a sizing type, things that Mike Lubliner brought 8 up earlier. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: Equipment what? 10 MR. LEVY: Equipment HVAC and DHW. These 11 ar e basically heating and cooling and high water 12 eq uipment. 13 The fourth one I have is: other 14 co mponent properties like glazing ducts, other 15 co mponents other than thermal envelope equipment. 16 The fifth one I have is: ventilation. 17 Ag ain, I'm -- you have that up there. But 18 ve ntilation in a broader sense including whole 19 ho use tightness, ventilation, indoor air quality 20 is sues that are all interrelated. 21 And the last one I have on my list is: 22 financial criteria, which would include

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 294 1 is sues like affordability, economic assumptions 2 an d those kinds of things. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: So financial being 4 di fferent than financing. 5 MR. LEVY: Right. It might be, for 6 ex ample, on the left side of a cost analysis, what 7 as sumptions are you making when you do that kind 8 of analysis? And broadly, what impact does this 9 ha ve on affordability? What proposal? What -- 10 ho w do you -- how are you impacting the ability of 11 pe ople to buy homes, for example? That would all 12 be under the financial criteria catchall. 13 MR. WEISS: In terms of broad -- Mark 14 We iss, MHARR. In terms of broad issues, I would 15 su ggest affordability be broken out on its own 16 be cause that's a major issue, but affordability 17 co st effectiveness and justification. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: I broke up the 19 af fordability. 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible). 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Any other -- did you have 22

--

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 295 1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: And this is 2 no t limiting, right, just because you don't speak 3 up now. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: We're going to spend more 6 ti me tomorrow, but if you have some core ones, you 7 kn ow. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: First, Emanuel and then 9 Ma rk, yeah. 10 MR. LEVY: No, no. 11 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, you didn't have a 12 co mment. 13 Mark, sorry. 14 MR. EZZO: Mark Ezzo. Is anything up 15 he re relating to competitiveness with other types 16 of housing whether it'd be modular housing or 17 si te-built housing? 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Not that I'm aware of so. 19 MR. EZZO: Okay. That's -- 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Do you want to put 21 so mething up there on that? 22 MR. EZZO: I think it should be

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 296 1 di scussed because the -- I don't know when this 2 go es into effect, but nobody in the country is on 3 20 15 now. It's likely that there will be a lot of 4 ju risdictions that aren't on it when this hits. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Somebody has to help me 6 wi th "competitiveness" spelling. 7 MR. EZZO: I don't know. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: C-O-M -- 9 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: C-O-M-P -- 10 MS. HOFFMAN: -- P-E-T-I-T-I-V-E-N-E-S. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. I'll double12 ch eck that will the Spell Check later. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Let me see, there's one 16 mo re I had (inaudible) here. Yeah, four or five 17 (i naudible). 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. One of the broad 19 it ems you have, yeah. 20 MR. TOMPOS: Dave Tompos. This may be 21 ad dressed under the EMH types that need to be 22 tr eated difficulty, but I have concerns with some

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 297 1 of the smaller singlewide homes. We're going to 2 ge t into some transportation issues if we have to 3 go from 2x4 to 2x6 walls in some zones. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 5 MR. TOMPOS: And not being able to meet 6 ha ndicap requirements and still keep them the same 7 si ze. I'll be (inaudible). So that's kind of a - 8 - how do we put that in a nutshell? 9 MR. RAMIREZ: I'm just putting "size." 10 MR. TOMPOS: "Sizing" would be great. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 12 MR. WEISS: Just to follow up on what 13 Da ve said -- I'm Mark Weiss, MHARR. Just to 14 fo llow up on what Dave said, you know, the broader 15 ca tegory of interaction with other pertinent 16 re quirements, regulation standards that may be 17 ap plicable, you know. I don't know how you put 18 th at into a nutshell but -- 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Interaction with other 20 st andards? 21 MR. WEISS: Yeah, criteria, et cetera. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. And we have

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 298 1 su ggestions from Michael Lubliner, energy labeling 2 an d environmental externalities. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Energy labeling. 4 Are those two different things? 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Two different things, 6 ye ah. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Energy labeling. 8 What was the second one? 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Environmental 10 ex ternalities. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 12 MR. WEISS: What's "environmental 13 ex ternality"? 14 MS. HOFFMAN: We'll ask Mike. 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That's part 16 of the (inaudible) candidate list. 17 MS. HOFFMAN: What? 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That's part 19 of the (inaudible) candidate list. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, externalities? Okay. 21 (Laughter.) 22 MS. HOFFMAN: And Peter Schneider,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 299 1 re siliency to more severe weather events and 2 du rability. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Let's see, can you say it 4 ag ain? 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Resiliency, more severe 6 we ather events and durability. Two different... 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Any other -- yes? 9 MR. UNGAR: It overlaps with some of 10 th ese things, but I think it -- you started with 11 ma nufactured housing types that need to be treated 12 di fferently, but I also think there's manufactured 13 ho using characteristics both in terms of the 14 ac tual buildings and also the process that you -- 15 yo u know, in terms of some of the -- IECC has 16 in tended for a particular process. There may be a 17 tr anslation to deal with the factory-built 18 pr ocess. 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Any other issue? 20 MS. EPPERSON: Stacey and NextStep. I 21 th ink consumer awareness or support education is a 22 to pic because whatever we decide here there's

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 300 1 go ing to be an impact on the consumer and how they 2 in teract with it. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: So consumer awareness and 4

-- 5 MS. EPPERSON: Education support. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: -- education support. 7 Now, do you see subcategories forming 8 or ... 9 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah? 10 MR. SANTANA: I know this (inaudible) 11 fo cus -- I'm sorry. This is Manny, with Cavco. I 12 kn ow that we're not going to focus on enforcement, 13 bu t does that include implementation how are we 14 su pposed to build it? You know, if some of these 15 ru les deal with -- you know, they're going to deal 16 wi th tests. You know, some of these tests can't 17 be done in a factory setting. Some of these are 18 go ing to have to be done onsite, you know, so that 19 mi ght have to affect, you know, the frequently. 20 You know, is that in our, I guess, realm 21 of discussion? So how things -- you know, how -- 22 wh at we determine gets implemented, you know?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 301 1 Be cause that's going to have a factor in what is 2 fe asible and what isn't. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: How implemented? Okay. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: Do you want to comment, 5 Jo e? 6 Yeah? 7 MR. LUTER: Rob, with Lippert. Just a 8 qu estion next to climate zone impacts, you have 9 si ngle versus double. 10 Are there other -- 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, so you know what? 12 MR. LUTER: -- specialty types? 13 MR. RAMIREZ: I'm going to go ahead and 14 pu t the numbering on here just so it's easier for 15 us to identify them as -- 16 MR. LUTER: Sure. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: So what number are you 18 ta lking about? 19 MR. LUTER: Okay. 5.1 and 5.2, could 20 yo u elaborate on what those mean; are you talking 21 ab out windows? 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: No.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 302 1 MR. LUTER: Single versus double? 2 MR. RAMIREZ: No, I think that's the 3 ac tual unit itself, right? 4 MR. LUTER: Singlewide, doublewide. 5 Ok ay. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Singlewide, 7 do ublewide, yeah. 8 MR. LUTER: Never mind. 9 (Voices off record.) 10 MR. RAMIREZ: And we'll send this out. 11 We can email this out to the Group tonight -- 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, you can have it. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: -- you know, before you 14 le ave so that you'll have it with you for tonight. 15 MR. LUTER: Are we able to discuss any 16 of these before we leave? 17 MS. HOFFMAN: Sure. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: It depends up -- it's all 19 to you. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. Well, which one 21 wo uld you like to discuss? Or there's a number of 22 th ings you can do with this: you can prioritize,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 303 1 yo u can lump together, or you can say whatever 2 yo u'd like to discuss and -- 3 MR. LUTER: Rob, with Lippert. I 4 wo uldn't mind commenting on Number 1, three 5 ve rsus, what, give or seven zones, eight is it? 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible). 7 MR. LUTER: In our industry, houses have 8 wh eels. And I kind of want to totally speak for 9 th e manufacturers, but they have a tough time 10 kn owing where they're going to go. Ultimately, 11 on ce they hit a dealer's lot, they could go 12 an ywhere. To go with the traditional HUD zones 13 wo uld simplify things a great deal. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, so, let me ask the 15 Gr oup here because part of my concern is that I 16 wa nt to make sure that the folks are prepared to - 17 - you know, to talk about this and to problem18 so lve. 19 So how deep do you want to go here, just 20 wa nt to have the conversation on which one are we 21 go ing to use here or are you looking to try to get 22 ag reement now whether it be HUD or -- is it that

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 304 1 si mple of "Yeah, it's HUD"? Is it that simple of 2 a discussion or do we need more discussion on it? 3 MR. SANTANA: Manny, with Cavco. You 4 kn ow, it seems -- would it -- would -- is there 5 an y way that we can get an explanation as to the 6 sc ope of what we're trying -- we're going to do, 7 yo u know, to get it -- you know, if we explain 8 wh at is going to be contained within the Energy 9 Co de, you know, then we -- if we say, "Climate 10 zo nes," you know, "fenestrations, U-values (ph) 11 22 1323, air infiltration, you know, is all of it 12 th ere? Because then, you know, do we have a game 13 pl an as to how to approach it, how to attack it or 14 ar e we just going to kind of go all -- because one 15 th ing might be based on something else. 16 MR. RAMIREZ: But you know what? That's 17 ex actly what we're talking about, right? That's 18 ex actly what we're talking about as far as 19 id entifying what are the issues and then what 20 in formation is needed and then prioritizing them 21 be cause we might have to deal with something up 22 he re before we get into some other discussion. And

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 305 1 th en that's some of my hesitation here, right? 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. But does the DOE 3 ha ve -- 4 MR. HAGERMAN: Let me just -- 5 MS. HOFFMAN: -- any idea on the scope? 6 MR. HAGERMAN: Let me answer the 7 qu estion this way: so it's up to this Group to 8 wr estle with that, so if you want to, you know, 9 us e your comments as Strawman to start ordering 10 th e discussion here, then present it to the Group 11 th at way and get them to ask if that's something 12 th ey want to proceed with, right? We do not have 13 a set outline of what needs to -- what it needs to 14 co ver or not. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: So do you want to -- at 16 le ast these initial ones, did you want to start 17 pu tting them in order? 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Well, let's hear first, 19 ye ah, from -- 20 MS. STARKEY: I think it might be 21 he lpful. I think -- I see some overlap. I think 22 wh at -- where Manny's going is there's -- there

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 306 1 ar e different functional areas, you know, you've 2 go t ducts, you've got the envelope, you've got -- 3 an d I think once -- if we maybe take these and try 4 to come down to, you know, half of -- you know, 5 gr oup them because I think there's a number that 6 ar e similar, and that might be helpful. I mean, 7 yo u know, for example, indoor air quality, 8 ve ntilation... 9 MR. RAMIREZ: So you want to start 10 pu tting them into broader groups. 11 MS. STARKEY: I would. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Right. 13 MS. STARKEY: I would suggest that it 14 wo uld be easier if we -- 15 MR. RAMIREZ: So what would -- 16 MS. STARKEY: -- narrow the number down. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Like those two that you 18 ju st mentioned, what would be the broad category 19 fo r that? 20 MS. STARKEY: Venetian, air quality? 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Air quality? 22 MR. LEVY: That's actually where I was

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 307 1 st arting with the six categories. I thought those 2 su bsumed pretty much everything that's out there. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So which ones were 4 th ey, what numbers were those? 5 MR. LEVY: Well, climate zones was 6 ce rtainly an issue in and of itself. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 8 MR. LEVY: Envelope thermal requirements 9 wi ll bring a couple things into play, but that it 10 wi ll be a major part of whatever the standard 11 lo oks like. 12 The equipment, HVAC equipment and hot 13 wa ter equipment together are an issue. You could 14 ad d appliances to that. Other components like 15 gl azing, ducts. 16 Again, the intent here is to lump them 17 to gether first and then see whether -- 18 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Right. 19 MR. LEVY: -- they need to be pulled 20 ap art later. 21 Ventilation is kind of its own issue, 22 wh ich gets to indoor air quality and tightness.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 308 1 And financial criteria gets into 2 af fordability, gets into all the issues we talked 3 ab out in terms of the customer, their perspective 4 an d the (inaudible) cost determinations. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: So the ones that are up 6 he re, which ones could we start putting off of 7 th ese? 8 MR. LEVY: I mean -- 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 10 MR. RAMIREZ: See, because what we could 11 do is, say for example, energy labeling -- and I'm 12 ju st -- it's just a hypothetical. I mean, I could 13 st art -- we could start doing that, we could start 14 mo ving stuff over and grouping them. 15 MR. SANTANA: Well, the (inaudible) I 16 th ink 15 could probably be a (inaudible) -- 17 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Push 18 th e mic please. 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, push the mic, your 20 mi c. 21 MR. SANTANA: I think I'm on. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, your mic.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 309 1 MR. SANTANA: Right, yeah, apologize. I 2 th ink that 15 could be a subset of -- yeah, right, 3 be cause when we say, "Sizing" -- well, actually, 4 no , that wasn't equipment sizing. That was sizing 5 of the units. 6 MR. LUTER: Yeah, I'm talking home 7 si zing. 8 MR. SANTANA: Yeah, sorry about that. 9 Th at was different. 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That's okay. 11 MS. STARKEY: Well, let's just start 12 wi th overall (inaudible) affordability (inaudible) 13 fi nancing up there. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Which number was that that 15 yo u -- 16 MS. STARKEY: That was on the -- 17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Do the 18 mi crophone, yeah. 19 MS. STARKEY: Sorry. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: You know what? Let me 21 ju st clarify this one real quick before you do 22 th at. I'm just going to put "sizing of unit" so

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 310 1 th at way it's a little clearer. 2 So what number are you talking about 3 th at we can start throwing stuff under? 4 MS. STARKEY: Overall affordability, 5 wh ere did I see that? 6 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Number 12. 7 MS. STARKEY: Number 12. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 9 MS. STARKEY: You could bring financial 10 in to that. I mean, just for the sake of 11 di scussion, financing, financial -- 12 MR. RAMIREZ: You're going to have to 13 gi ve me a number. 14 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Nine and 11 15 no w. 16 MR. RAMIREZ: No, 9 was different than 17 fi nancial, right? 18 MS. STARKEY: Well, for the purpose of 19 ju st discussion to try to -- I -- you know, it 20 mi ght be helpful if we -- 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Affordability. 22 MS. STARKEY: I think we're like --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 311 1 we 've got too many. We've got 24 items here and I 2 th ink we could -- 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, I've gotten some 4 mo re from Peter Schneider. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Where exactly? 6 (Laughter.) 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Because which -- before 8 yo u do that, so which other ones go under 11? 9 MS. STARKEY: Number 10. 10 MR. RAMIREZ: Number 10? 11 MS. STARKEY: Number 10, Number -- 12 MR. RAMIREZ: See, that's a problem with 13 nu mbering them too soon. They start moving around 14

-- 15 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 16 MR. RAMIREZ: -- and still get to look 17 at the new numbers but -- 18 MS. STARKEY: Yeah, those three. I 19 th ink that does it for that one. I don't know, 20 yo u could maybe put -- you might even be able to 21 pu t competitiveness down under that overall 22 af fordability. That would be my thinking, but

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 312 1 ma ybe somebody else -- 2 MR. RAMIREZ: We'll get into -- 3 MS. STARKEY: -- has another idea. 4 MR. RAMIREZ: -- a little bit later. 5 MS. STARKEY: And justification could go 6 un der there. We may want to split them out later, 7 bu t I think if we start thinking about them in 8 te rms of groups, it might be -- 9 MR. SANTANA: You know, 20 could 10 pr obably go, you know, under, what was that, 6? 11 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: New 12 va lues? 13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 14 MR. LUTER: The glazing element of 9 -- 15 Ro b, with Lippert. The glazing element of 9 could 16 go under Items 6 as well. 17 MR. LACEY: Glazing (inaudible) services 18 co uld be broken up (inaudible). 19 MR. LUTER: Correct. 20 MR. LACEY: Yeah. 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Glazing separate? 22 MR. LACEY: But under that same general

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 313 1 ca tegory. 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Because 3 yo u're going to have (inaudible). 4 MR. LACEY: Yeah. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh. 6 MR. SANTANA: You know, under 18, I'd 7 li ke to add a subset of performance rather than 8 pr escriptive just to keep that in mind. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: Performance and -- 10 MR. SANTANA: Rather than prescriptive 11 pe rformance. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Rather. 13 Prescriptive? 14 MS. STARKEY: Could 3 and 15 go together 15 or 16, 3 and 16? 16 MR. RAMIREZ: 3 and 16. 17 Are they the same; are you saying is 18 th at duplicate? 19 MS. STARKEY: I think they're subsets, 20 ye ah, but I think it's a subset. That would be my 21

-- 22 MR. RAMIREZ: Which is a subset?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 314 1 MS. STARKEY: I'd say 3 is a subset of 2 16 , but -- 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 14 and 15 4 wo uld probably be put together. 5 (Voices off record.) 6 MR. RAMIREZ: 14 and 15 you said? 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Okay. 13 8 an d 14. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: 13 and 14. 10 MS. STARKEY: 13 and 14, yeah. 11 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: 10 and 11, 12 sh ould that be? 13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: If we could 14 ge t -- 15 MS. HOFFMAN: See if we can make it a 16 li ttle bit -- can you make it a little bit -- 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: -- like larger or maybe 19 no t? Better? 20 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: 10 and 11 21 go together? 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I don't know

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 315 1 wh at sizing the unit is. 2 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I'm talking 3 ab out -- 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Equipment? 5 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: No, no, no, 6 I' m not talking about equipment. Small -- the 7 sm all units that (inaudible). 8 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oh, it's 9 so mething else. 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Not have any 11 wi ndows in it. 12 MS. STARKEY: So maybe that 11 could go 13 un der 14 or with 14. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Where'd you 16 pu t it? 17 MR. RAMIREZ: 13 now. 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: There's -- 19 MR. RAMIREZ: I mean, I -- 20 MS. STARKEY: Image characteristics that 21 ne ed to be treated differently. 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oh, yeah,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 316 1 ye ah, yeah. 2 MS. STARKEY: Yeah, I think they could 3 go together. 11 and 13 could go together. 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Because the 5 ol d 11 (inaudible) talking to 11. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Is 1 and 4 7 th e same thing? 8 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: 9 (I naudible). 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Could 3 and 11 14 be combined? 12 MR. SANTANA: Well, how does 3 apply? 13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Well, what 14 do we mean by "alternative construction"? 15 MR. SANTANA: Right. 16 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, it -- 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Does anyone want to speak 19 to that? 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That was the 21 DO E's. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: That what was on the list

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 317 1 an d (inaudible). 2 MS. STARKEY: Was that like an 3 al ternative performance path or -- 4 MR. EZZO: Well, we -- 5 MS. STARKEY: -- different kind of -- 6 MR. EZZO: This is Mark. We need to be 7 ca reful because that's a term -- 8 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 9 MR. EZZO: -- that HUD uses as a type of 10 ho me that requires special permission. 11 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 12 MR. EZZO: So if we're talking about 13 do ing something differently, let's use a different 14 te rm. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Yes, so agree on 16 wh at important words mean, right? 17 MR. EZZO: Yeah, yeah. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 19 MR. ROY: Yeah. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So how do we need 21 to change that? 22 MR. ROY: Well --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 318 1 MR. SANTANA: Well, what was -- 2 MR. ROY: Yeah. 3 MR. SANTANA: -- it intended to be? 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, what's 5 th e -- 6 MR. ROY: Well, was it -- because it 7 co uld be what Manny was referring to previously 8 wi th prescriptive versus performance. 9 MR. HAGERMAN: Refer to compliance. 10 MR. RAMIREZ: Is that what that is? 11 MR. ROY: Unh-huh (negatively). 12 MR. HAGERMAN: I think that was an 13 in tent. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: I'm sorry? 15 MR. HAGERMAN: Compliance. That's what 16 it says when you get to the end. 17 MS. HOFFMAN: Compliance. 18 MR. HAGERMAN: Compliance. 19 MS. STARKEY: Yeah, like a different 20 pe rformance path. 21 MR. HAGERMAN: The 2015 Code calls it 22 th e HERS Path or --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 319 1 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 2 MR. HAGERMAN: Eric Lacey -- 3 MR. LACEY: Yeah, there you go. 4 MR. HAGERMAN: -- what's the 2015 refer 5 to as the HERS Pathway? 6 MR. LACEY: The ERI, yeah. 7 MR. HAGERMAN: The ERI Pathway? All 8 ri ght. Thank you. 9 MR. LACEY: I mean, that's all under 14, 10 I think. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Right. 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 13 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: So you can move -- 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, sure. 16 MS. HOFFMAN: -- that 3 to 14. 17 MR. UNGAR: Can I (inaudible) 18 en vironmental externalities under 11, which is 19 wh at Lois said? At least you're trying to 20 (i naudible), Lois, except I wasn't sure if that's 21 re ally what Lois meant. 22 MS. STARKEY: Yeah, I'm not sure what

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 320 1 "e nvironmental externalities" are. I would like 2 an explanation of that. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Who put that -- who -- 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Mike 5 Lu bliner. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Mike is on the phone. 7 MS. MARCHETTI: Shall I just un-mute 8 hi m? 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes, un-mute him, yeah. 10 MS. MARCHETTI: Okay. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Have your -- 12 MS. MARCHETTI: Michael? 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Is 3 in 1 or -- 14 MR. HAGERMAN: Michael, can you hear us. 15 Yo u're un-muted. 16 MR. LUBLINER: Thank you very much. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: So -- 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Michael, we can hear you 20 no w. 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: There's a question on what

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 321 1 is -- what do you mean by "environmental 2 ex ternalities"? 3 MR. LUBLINER: Climate change. I 4 be lieve it's part of the DOE analysis, the impact 5 it 's going to emit. Greenhouse gas savings 6 (i naudible). So I don't believe it goes in 7 (i naudible). 8 MR. RAMIREZ: Can I -- 9 MR. LUBLINER: I do believe that 10 la beling is a HERS labeling (inaudible) clearly 11 wi th performance (inaudible) performance testing 12 or performance compliance. 13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: So that was 14 a separate comment. 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I think that 16 we nt under 5. 17 MR. LUBLINER: Yeah, it's a separate 18 co mment. 19 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 1 was under 20 5, should go under 13 the labeling? 21 MR. LUBLINER: Yeah. And labeling and 22 pe rformance are together.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 322 1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Are 5. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: Not that one. 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That one's - 4 - or 8, Number 8. 5 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: No, that was 6 no t with Number 8. 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It was under 8 wa ter heater. 9 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Number 9, 10 wh at's Number 9 now? 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Energy labeling 12 go es under here? 13 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 14 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 15 MR. UNGAR: Well, it depends what the -- 16 I don't know what the person who said "labeling" 17 me ant because that -- it may -- 18 MR. LUBLINER: That's (inaudible) 19 la beling. 20 MR. UNGAR: -- actually be referring to 21 HE RS labeling, but there's different kinds of 22 la beling so I don't --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 323 1 MR. LUBLINER: Yeah, I was thinking in 2 te rms -- 3 MR. UNGAR: -- it may or may not go 4 un der there, depending what the -- was meant 5 th ere. 6 MR. LEVY: I think it means as an -- 7 MR. LUBLINER: Hello? 8 MR. LEVY: -- an expression of 9 pe rformance compliance. 10 MR. LUBLINER: It's (inaudible). 11 MR. UNGAR: Right, but I'm saying I 12 do n't -- 13 MR. LEVY: Right. 14 MR. UNGAR: -- and the person who 15 su ggested labeling may have meant something other 16 el se by "labeling." I don't know what was 17 in tended so I can't -- 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: And, Mike, 19 do you -- 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Mike? 21 MR. LUBLINER: They suggested labeling. 22 MR. UNGAR: So you did mean HERS

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 324 1 la beling. 2 MR. LUBLINER: Yes, Ishbel Dickens. 3 MR. UNGAR: Okay. 4 MR. LUBLINER: I could be a different 5 ty pe of labeling. It's something to inform the 6 su per what the energy (inaudible) of the home will 7 be and that's typically HERS (inaudible) on it. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: So then we're okay with 9 wh ere we dropped it? 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yes. 11 MR. LUBLINER: Yeah. I had a couple -- 12 MR. UNGAR: That's one of the 13 en vironmental externalities. So broadly 14 es sentially, is environmental effects which are 15 no t incorporated into the price, but then can be 16 in corporated in an analysis, so it fit better. If 17 an ything, it's related to some of the items which 18 we now put under affordability in terms of cost 19 ef fectiveness. 20 MR. LUBLINER: That's fine. 21 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: 22 (I naudible).

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 325 1 MR. LUBLINER: I had one other comment. 2 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I was 3 go ing to (inaudible). 4 MR. LUBLINER: The question about 5 (i naudible), there's a -- actually, I have a 6 co uple. I wrote them out. My (inaudible) I'm 7 ge tting are echoing. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Can you hear me? I think 9 I have them. Water resistive barriers? 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, I'll - 11 - 12 MR. LUBLINER: Yes, that (inaudible) 13 in door air quality. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: That's on window air 15 qu ality? 16 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Indoor air 17 qu ality. 18 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Indoor 19 ai r. 20 MR. LUBLINER: And that also includes 21 wh iplashing. 22 (Voices off record.)

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 326 1 MR. LUBLINER: (Inaudible) the process 2 of (inaudible) and (inaudible) the home is part of 3 th e (inaudible) or is it just the purchase 4 (i naudible)? 5 MS. HOFFMAN: You're breaking up a 6 li ttle bit. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: A lot a bit. 8 MR. LUTER: I think that should be 9 we ather resistive barrier -- 10 MR. RAMIREZ: You're Mike's guy. 11 MR. LUTER: -- not water. 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Weather. Weather? 13 MR. RAMIREZ: He -- the water is on 14 he re, but it's -- 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Ask Michael 16 be cause he did say, "Water," and -- 17 MR. LUBLINER: It's water resistive 18 ba rrier, I believe, in the (inaudible) proposal. 19 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: So 20 (i naudible). 21 MR. RAMIREZ: And we'll put these under 22

-- we'll see where they go. I'm just going to get

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 327 1 th em up here. 2 MR. LUBLINER: Thank you. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 4 MR. LUBLINER: I had one question, if we 5 ca n do it, the technical discretion, it had to do 6 wi th (inaudible) about testing onsite. I think 7 it 's an important one. 8 The question (inaudible) there are 9 ce rtain things that can be tested in a factory, 10 ot her things that can be tested onsite and 11 (i naudible) about (inaudible) tested on 12 (inaudible) because they needed erect 13 ho mes. But my question was: it -- can we be able 14 to test singlewide homes at the factory where 15 (i naudible) stop leakage in a random sampling 16 pr ocess? 17 MR. RAMIREZ: I hope you guys understood 18 th at. 19 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yes, I did. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Could you 21 tr anslate? 22 MR. LUBLINER: Yeah, (inaudible).

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 328 1 MR. RAMIREZ: No, no, I'm sorry. Luby 2 (p h), is it Luby on the line? 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yes, 4 (i naudible). 5 MR. LUBLINER: Yes, I am. 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, it's a little broken 7 up so that's what I meant by "translating," and 8 Mi chael or Manuel Levy is going to give a shot 9 wh ere -- to see if he could capture that for all 10 of us. 11 MR. LUBLINER: Okay. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: So go ahead. 13 MR. LUBLINER: Excellent. 14 MR. LEVY: I think, Mike -- and you'll 15 co rrect me, Mike, if I'm wrong. 16 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 17 MR. LEVY: You're trying to make a 18 di stinction between things that are easier to test 19 in the plant as opposed to the field. And in many 20 ca ses, for certain kinds of tests, a single21 se ction home, since it's completed as a box in the 22 pl ants, easier to test in the plant.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 329 1 MR. LUBLINER: Yeah, that's exactly it, 2 Em anuel. I believe that we can learn a lot just 3 fr om testing the single-section homes in the 4 fa ctory that will help with the (inaudible) 5 pr ocess but will end up helping the double-section 6 ho mes which -- except for the things that are done 7 on site like marriage line sealing. 8 So I'm thinking that, you know, when we 9 ta lk about the setup of the home and what's in the 10 In stallation Manual in terms of testing -- and one 11 of the things that we can test in the factory 12 ve rsus onsite, I think that there's room for 13 di scussion in that subject area and maybe we could 14 ca ll it "performance testing at -- onsite and in 15 th e factory" and work through that. So we're not 16 re quiring that all the homes are getting tested, 17 bu t we've got a good process that everybody's 18 co mfortable with and it's happening where it's the 19 mo st cost-effective. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 21 MR. WEISS: Mark Weiss. I'm sorry, this 22

-- but isn't that an enforcement type issue

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 330 1 re lated to this distinction that's been drawn? 2 MR. RAMIREZ: You know, at this point, I 3 wo uld say let's throw it up there because then 4 wh en we get to the prioritizing, then that's where 5 st uff may fall off, okay? 6 MS. HOFFMAN: A couple of -- Peter 7 Sc hneider has said, "I couldn't -- 8 MR. LUBLINER: Thank you. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Thank you, Michael, 10 (i naudible). 11 THE ELECTRONIC RECORDING OFFICER: Push 12 th e mic please. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Peter Schneider -- 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Your mic's not on. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Peter Schneider has said, 16 "A coustics, loud furnaces in living spaces are a 17 bu rden to homeowners," yeah. 18 What does that mean? 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Can I see it? 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Acoustics, I guess. Yeah, 21 th at's okay. And Luby has said, "Need to discuss 22 it affordability includes operation and

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 331 1 ma intenance costs or just the purchase price?" 2 Ye ah, interesting. So that would be under -- 3 MR. RAMIREZ: What's that? 4 MS. HOFFMAN: -- affordability. Number 5 7. 6 Affordability, "does it include 7 op eration and maintenance costs or just the 8 pu rchase price?" 9 MR. LUBLINER: This is Mike Lubliner 10 ag ain. On the panel, been some fundamental 11 di scussions about what "affordability" actually 12 me ans and I think it's going to be important to 13 fl esh that out in this Group. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: I'm sorry, what was that? 15 MR. LUBLINER: There's been a lot of 16 di scussions about the definition of 17 "a ffordability." 18 Does it just include the purchase price 19 of the home or does it include the operation and 20 ma intenance costs over the life of the home? And 21 I think it's going to be important that we discuss 22 th at because I think people have different value

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 332 1 sy stems and different definitions of what 2 "a ffordability" is. 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So that's on 7.6, 4 Op eration and Maintenance for Purchase. 5 MR. LUBLINER: Yeah. 6 MR. WEISS: Mark Weiss, MHARR. You 7 kn ow, certainly we can discuss that, but this 8 co mes up all the time and to someone who cannot 9 af ford the original purchase price, there is no 10 li fecycle cost or saving. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Right. And at this -- 12 MR. LUBLINER: Yeah, somebody that -- 13 MR. RAMIREZ: -- point, I would say 14 we 're not -- 15 MR. LUBLINER: -- defaults on their loan 16 is the issue. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. And at this point, 18 we 're not going to sit and debate that one. 19 MR. LUBLINER: That's a -- 20 MR. RAMIREZ: We're not going to answer 21 th at one now. We want to just -- 22 MR. LUBLINER: Thank you.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 333 1 MR. RAMIREZ: -- broadly put stuff out 2 th ere at this moment. 3 MR. SANTANA: Three could probably go 4 in to 1 -- 5 MR. RAMIREZ: The same general -- 6 MR. WEISS: -- (inaudible) category. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: You said 3 could go 8 th rough 1? 9 MR. WEISS: Into 1, yeah. 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: I just want to hear the 12 su bsets on that. 13 Any other broad topics? 14 MS. STARKEY: I assume when we mean 15 "a coustics," we're talking about the heating and 16 co oling equipment or are we talking about, you 17 kn ow -- 18 MR. RAMIREZ: That was my -- 19 MS. STARKEY: -- other kinds of 20 ac oustics? 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. Well, on the note 22 he re, it says, "Acoustics, loud furnaces in living

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 334 1 sp aces are a burden to homeowners." Okay. 2 MR. LEVY: Just a clean-up question, 14 3 ha s indoor air quality and you have that under 5. 4 Durability and moisture, I -- you could 5 pr obably keep those together, but the indoor air 6 qu ality I just -- probably just strike it from 14 7 an d you're fine. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh, I see. 9 Strike or just go ahead and delete it? 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Strike "durability" no? 11 MR. LEVY: And actually, weather 12 re sistive barriers probably go under durability. 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Where is -- what number. 14 MR. LEVY: It's going to come out of 15 he re. 16 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 17 MR. RAMIREZ: What number is that? 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It's 551. 19 MS. HOFFMAN: So weather resistive 20 ba rriers, they go under where? 21 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Durability. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Durability.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 335 1 (Voices off Record.) 2 MR. RAMIREZ: Is that -- does that one 3 go there as well? Does 13 -- 4 MR. LEVY: Yeah. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: -- go there? 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, and Number 3, 7 "t hermal" has got an A at the end, T-H-E-R-M-A-L. 8 So are there any other major issues we 9 sh ould make sure you get up there? 10 MR. UNGAR: Okay. So under thermal 11 re quirements, insulation, insulation grading, this 12 ne eds to improve as related to value, is never 13 ac hieved due to poor insulation and air leakage. 14 Ju st want to know if there are more requirements. 15 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Who is 16 th at? 17 MR. UNGAR: In here. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: I think -- is that Luby? 19 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Peter. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Peter Schneider. 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, Peter Schneider. 22 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 336 1 MS. HOFFMAN: Efficiency (inaudible). 2 MR. RAMIREZ: Insulation, insulation. 3 (Pause.) 4 MR. UNGAR: We're still grouping. It's 5 on appreciation versus depreciation. It's -- 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Under financing? 7 MR. UNGAR: -- affordability. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Affordability? Yeah, 9 (i naudible). 10 MR. RAMIREZ: Where's affordability, 11 wh at number? 12 MR. UNGAR: Six. And for (inaudible), 13 it 's Number 12 of the (inaudible) implementation 14 fo r that one. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Eleven. 16 MR. SANTANA: You had 12 under 11. 17 MS. HOFFMAN: The 12 can go under 11? 18 MR. SANTANA: No. Now, the new 12 can 19 go under 8. I think the same group. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 21 MR. SANTANA: Now, how does consumer 22 aw areness and education support apply to an energy

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 337 1 st andard, I mean, as part of the energy standard? 2 I didn't know it's important to have consumer 3 aw areness, but how does it apply as a part of the 4 en ergy standard? 5 MR. RAMIREZ: And let me -- 6 MS. EPPERSON: May I -- 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Let me pause before you 8 an swer that. At this point, I don't want you to 9 an swer that, all right? We will. I want to just 10 ge t everything out there and then when we're 11 pr ioritizing and if we need to talk about it to 12 se e what's relevant at that time, you know, I say 13 ha ve at it, right? 14 MS. EPPERSON: Yeah. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: So for now, I just want to 16 ju st get the stuff up there. 17 MS. EPPERSON: I would say though -- 18 St acey, from NextStep -- that consumer awareness 19 an d education support, in my view, could come 20 un der affordability. 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 22 MS. EPPERSON: It's -- because it's a

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 338 1 wa y of getting that lifecycle cost. 2 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. So -- 3 MR. RAMIREZ: Done. Okay. 4 MR. CASKEY: John Caskey, NEMA. And I'm 5 st ill a little confused about 8.5 and if that's 6 ac oustics relative to the HVAC equipment, then why 7 no t put it under 4 as opposed to durability? 8 MS. EPPERSON: Yeah. 9 MR. CASKEY: It's an issue with the 10 eq uipment. 11 MS. EPPERSON: That would be my -- 12 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 13 MS. EPPERSON: That's my -- that's a 14 go od point. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: And we can't, right? 16 (Laughter.) 17 MR. RAMIREZ: So you guys are seeing how 18 th is works, right? It's easy -- we'll move stuff, 19 "H ow does it look?" "No, it doesn't look good." 20 We 'll move it back so -- 21 MR. SANTANA: Two can probably go under 22 7.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 339 1 MR. RAMIREZ: And as we break these off 2 be cause it's hard to deal with them, we'll make 3 th em their own maps, right, so we don't have to 4 ha ve everything crowded up. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Is there anything else 6 un der indoor air quality or is that a category 7 un to itself? 8 MR. LEVY: Well, missing from the list 9 is ventilation, which is a different issue but 10 it 's related, so that has to go someplace. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: Does it -- 12 MR. LEVY: And whole-house tightness. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: So where would you put it, 14 as another number, as a separate number or under 15 on e of these? 16 (Voices off record.) 17 MS. HOFFMAN: That just -- 18 MR. RAMIREZ: And then ventilation. 19 Is ventilation separate or is that the 20 wh ole-house tightness? 21 MR. LEVY: You could make the argument 22 th at indoor air quality and ventilation are

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 340 1 so mewhat related. You could put -- 2 MS. HOFFMAN: We'll put the -- 3 MR. LEVY: -- put them together. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: -- ventilation under 4. 5 MR. LUTER: And I might suggest that the 6 ac oustics gets wrapped up under ventilation. If I 7 in terpret the comment accurately, fans that are 8 al lowed don't get operated. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: That's what I've heard. 10 MR. LUTER: Whole-house fans. 11 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) 12 wh ole house. 13 MR. LUTER: Well, I'm talking about 14 wh ole-house fans. 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. 16 MR. LUTER: I mean, that's where the 17 so und level is kind of important. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 19 MR. LUTER: I can't remember if it was 20 Mi ke or the other gentleman who made that comment, 21 bu t maybe we should get verification that it 22 (i naudible).

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 341 1 MR. RAMIREZ: I just put them under 2 bo th. 3 MR. LUTER: Okay. 4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (inaudible). 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible). 7 MR. RAMIREZ: I left it under HVAC, and 8 I put it under indoor quality. I'll tell you 9 wh at, I'm try impressed we got such a -- you know, 10 we got some pretty good groupings already in a 11 sh ort period of time. Doesn't necessarily mean 12 th at we're done, but it's a pretty good starting 13 po int. 14 I don't really see any other ones that 15 ar e out of a group, so unless you all want to 16 st ill add some additional broad topics today, are 17 yo u guys good with this as a starting point? 18 MS. HOFFMAN: And -- 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, let's see. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. And also, the kind 21 of data you'd need, research data, whatever for 22 th ese.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 342 1 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Yeah, so that's 2 pr obably -- maybe that's some additional homework, 3 ri ght, looking at these because we'll email them, 4 so you'll get these probably in the next -- you 5 kn ow, once we're done, you'll get them within 15 6 mi nutes of when we're done, right? 7 Do you want to look at this and start 8 id entifying, at least in your head, what -- you 9 kn ow, what are we going to need as far as 10 in formation, and we could start doing that. 11 MR. LUTER: Just a comment on that with 12 re spect to what data we're going to need. Slide 13 26 basically spells out in broad strokes what 14 we 're after here. We're going to take the 2015 15 IE CC and we're going to defend it or condemn 16 el ements of it as "not appropriate" for 17 ma nufactured housing, based on rationale that 18 we 'll put forth from our respective areas of 19 ex pertise. Yeah, 26, right. So the -- if I'm 20 in terpreting your remark properly, we need to 21 de cide what kind of data we need to defend in the 22 ca se of .1 that the three-zone HUD climate zone is

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 343 1 be tter than the eight-zone IECC. 2 What is DOE looking at, what are you 3 lo oking for from us to defend that? 4 MR. RAMIREZ: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 5 Ye ah. And I don't know if it necessarily defend, 6 ri ght -- 7 MR. LUTER: Yeah. 8 MR. RAMIREZ: -- but to have the 9 di scussion to make sure that we're all in 10 ag reement -- 11 MR. LUTER: Okay. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: -- on which one we are 13 us ing. 14 MR. LUTER: Okay. 15 MR. RAMIREZ: And so what information 16 ar e you saying that you're going to need in order 17 to discuss that? 18 MR. LUTER: Well, that -- 19 MS. HOFFMAN: He says he has it, right? 20 He says he has it. 21 MR. HAGERMAN: And I'm not sure we need 22 in formation on all the terms on the term sheet

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 344 1 th at you present to us. 2 MR. LUTER: Okay. 3 MR. HAGERMAN: We just need the 4 co nsensus for this Group that that's the 5 re commendation to ASRAC, right? 6 MS. STARKEY: Well, for example, I think 7 if we had in front of us -- and I'm sure we will - 8 - the IECC zones and the current HUD zones -- 9 MR. HAGERMAN: Okay. 10 MS. STARKEY: -- that would be a good -- 11 mi ght be a good place to start. 12 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. 13 MS. STARKEY: And -- yeah. 14 MR. LUTER: And (inaudible) IECC 15 av ailable to just put up on the screen 16 (i naudible). 17 MS. STARKEY: Yeah, correct. 18 MR. SANTANA: But you know what that 19 do es? That gives us, one, the baseline and, two, 20 wh ere we're going at. You know, so we all know 21 wh at the HUD zones are and what the IECC zones 22 ar e, right? But going forward with the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 345 1 di scussion, you know, it would be helpful to have 2 th at for all those cases. You know, what does the 3 HU D Code say about U-values, what does IECC have 4 to say about U-values, and what's the difference? 5 What does it say about air infiltration 6 ba ck and forth. You know, so that's a -- to a 7 pr evious point about having an established 8 ba seline. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Can we have that for 10 to morrow? 11 (Laughter.) 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: What? We 13 ca n do it between now and 5:00 o'clock tomorrow. 14 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Shut up. 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible). 16 MR. RAMIREZ: That's -- 17 MR. HAGERMAN: Do you actually want an 18 an swer to that? 19 MR. RAMIREZ: That's an example of the - 20

- 21 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Better 22 no t.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 346 1 MR. RAMIREZ: I think I heard the whip 2 cr ack. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes, Eric? 4 MR. LACEY: I'm Eric Lacey. Just a 5 li ttle bit of information. You know, a question 6 wa s raised earlier about the 2012 IECC versus the 7 20 15. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 9 MR. LACEY: IECC has just published a 10 re dline version of the 2012 IECC that shows 11 ex actly what changes. And I have a copy. I, 12 un fortunately, left it on my -- at home, but I'll 13 br ing it tomorrow. 14 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, great. 15 MR. LACEY: And you can download a PDF 16 of that from the IECC website. In case we're 17 us ing 2012 materials and you're interested, I'll 18 br ing my copy tomorrow, but you can also download 19 a PDF, you know -- 20 MR. LUTER: Does that only include those 21 el ements that changed? 22 MR. LACEY: Yeah, it's the 2012 IECC

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 347 1 ju st with redlines. And it includes the 2 re sidential and commercial but, you know, for our 3 pu rposes, the residential is key. So I'll bring a 4 co py tomorrow. 5 MR. LUTER: (Inaudible), if the section 6 of the 2012 didn't change, is it even relevant? 7 MR. LACEY: It's there. Yeah, it's all 8 th ere, yeah. 9 MR. LUTER: Great. 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Great. 11 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah. And also, just in 12 ad dition, that the PNNL analysis will include all 13 th is and they also will include a discussion of, 14 yo u know, why they didn't consider one or not as I 15 re lates to manufactured housing, like I brought up 16 su nrooms before and -- as an example. 17 So we also talked in the hallway about 18 ho w we quickly release the previous results or 19 pr evious analysis and I don't think it's going to 20 be possible for us to give that to you like 21 to morrow just in the terms of getting the 22 sp readsheets to DOE and then letting General

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 348 1 Co unsel quickly review them just to make sure 2 th ere's not anything in it and then send to 3 ev erybody. 4 I don't see that happening between now 5 an d, you know, tomorrow afternoon, unfortunately 6 so -- but we're going to -- we've sent the actions 7 to everybody, they can start that so, you know, 8 ho pefully we can get it. There's no promises but 9 we 're working hard to get you as much stuff as 10 qu ickly as possible because, you know, we value 11 ev erybody's time and input so. 12 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Do you 13 th ink (inaudible) online update (inaudible)? 14 (Laughter.) 15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Because I 16 th ought they did. 17 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: IBTS has 18 on e, too, but I didn't bring the right one, but I 19 (i naudible). 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Is there anything 21 fu rther before we go to public comment? 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 349 1 MR. RAMIREZ: We're a little early. I 2 do n't -- is there any objection to getting public 3 co mment and calling it a day? 4 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. 5 MR. LUTER: Do we have any element -- 6 I' m sorry, Rob, with Lippert. Do we have any 7 el ements of this that we can offer further 8 di scussion on to maximize our use of time today? 9 MR. RAMIREZ: Is there? 10 MR. LUTER: Is there anything we need to 11 wa it for, a DOE analysis or anything on, is there 12 an ything that can be meaningfully discussed? Out 13 to my fellow participants. 14 MR. SANTANA: Well, is the next step to 15 tr y to whittle some of that stuff out or just to 16 st art with Number 1 or to organize it, you put it 17 or der and then we see if we want to start here, 18 an d then go from there; what's the next step? 19 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, I think we were 20 tr ying to prioritize them but we also need to 21 id entify what information is needed on each of 22 th em, right? But, yeah, we were trying to

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 350 1 pr ioritize them. If guys want to try to 2 pr ioritize at least a broad category, at least 3 in itially, we could try to do that. 4 So -- and when I say, "Prioritize," one 5 th ing I'd caution you on: it doesn't work when 6 fo lks say, "Can't we deal with this because this 7 is the hardest issue? If we get this thing done, 8 th en everything else will be easy." I would 9 su ggest let's get used to working with each other, 10 ri ght? Let's pick some low-hanging fruit, items 11 th at you think that we could easily reach 12 ag reement on, let's put those up towards the front 13 an d then the harder issues towards the back, at 14 le ast what you initially think would be the harder 15 is sues, and we could move around if we need be. 16 But kind of keeping that in mind, what 17 wo uld be the first issue that we would talk about? 18 MR. SANTANA: I like the zone issue. You 19 kn ow, it gives you an idea of scope and then it 20 ca n help to flesh out some of the constraints that 21 we have as an industry, you know, and it can help 22 to , I guess, set the tone for some of the other

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 351 1 it ems. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: You know, and that's the 3 ot her piece. We need to put something ahead of 4 it . If we need an answer on this piece before we 5 mo ve to the next one, those are things to consider 6 as well. So more of like a temperature check 7 be cause we can move these around. 8 Let me see a show of thumbs if 9 ev eryone's okay with putting that issue that is at 10 Nu mber 1, keeping it at Number 1, let me see a 11 sh ow of thumbs. 12 (Call for show of thumbs.) 13 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, great. 14 What would we put as Number 2 then? 15 Ye ah? 16 MR. UNGAR: Lowell Ungar. I don't know 17 if all of it, but I think along with zone, there's 18 an other kind of struck question of how you 19 st ructure the standard as opposed to the content, 20 an d the number is 9 and at least parts of 9 in 21 te rms of what's the -- what are the metrics or the 22 wa y you structure the standard might be early

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 352 1 di scussion that would help for the rest. 2 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Yeah, Mark, and -- 3 MR. WEISS: I'm just going to raise this 4 as an issue: I -- just sitting here right now, I 5 do n't know the answer to it, but the areas of 6 ov erlap that you have with the statute that HUD is 7 op erating under are the issues of affordability, 8 co st-effectiveness and justification. 9 And particularly with respect to 10 af fordability, I think that that kind of should 11 co lor the discussion on all these issues so even 12 th ough that's a more-difficult issue, based on 13 wh at Mike was saying, it's not difficult from our 14 pe rspective, but I think you have to have some 15 di scussion of that, I think, leading into anything 16

-- 17 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 18 MR. UNGAR: -- anymore specific issue. 19 MR. RAMIREZ: What do you all think of 20 th at? 21 I'm sorry, you had your hand up? 22 MR. LEVY: Yes. Actually, I thought

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 353 1 Lo well's point about that's a high-level issue. 2 Th at's probably even above the zones, I mean, in 3 te rms of overall thinking about what the structure 4 of the standard looks like. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 6 MR. LEVY: So I would make a case for 7 mo ving 2 up to 1. And maybe interjecting the idea 8 of affordability also being talked about as a 9 hi gh-level issue. 10 MR. RAMIREZ: Not -- now again, the idea 11 of trying to deal with some of the low-hanging 12 fr uit first, let me put them up here and see what 13 it looks like so we can move them back later if we 14 ne ed to. 15 Is that what you all are talking about 16 ri ght there? 17 MR. LEVY: Switching 2 and 3. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 19 MS. DICKENS: This is Ishbel. 20 Ph ilosophically I agree with that ordering, but 21 (i naudible) speaking in the interest of negotiated 22 ru lemaking, I think climate zones would be a good

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 354 1 pr actice run for all of us before we get into some 2 of the more delicate issues. 3 (Laughter.) 4 MR. RAMIREZ: As a facilitator, yeah, I 5 ag ree. 6 MS. DICKENS: Yeah. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: You guys will get used to 8 no t only the process but each other as well. I 9 th ink that jumping into something that's going to 10 be difficult at first -- we increase our odds of 11 su ccess if we get used to each other first. 12 MS. STARKEY: Yeah, I think we need to - 13 - this is Lois Starkey. We need to have a more of 14 a discussion about what we kind of -- where we all 15 ar e on the overall framework of the standard. I 16 th ink all of us are pretty familiar with the 17 cu rrent HUD Code and, if you're not, I can 18 ce rtainly make the statute available so you kind 19 of know where we are today and where, you know, we 20 kn ow that we're probably going to have lots of 21 di scussions about. But unless you really have 22 so me good, you know, foundation for what's in the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 355 1

-- what we're talking about in the standard, I 2 th ink the whole affordability question is -- 3 do esn't work. So I see it down lower on the list 4 th an even three. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: The -- what's currently 6 Nu mber 3 you think would actually be lower? 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That's 8 ri ght, she -- 9 MS. STARKEY: Or, I mean -- well, below 10 at least three or four. I mean, you know, I think 11 it 's going to come up as we talk about these other 12 is sues anyways, but it's substantively -- 13 MR. RAMIREZ: That's what you're talking 14 ab out. 15 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 16 MR. SANTANA: Yeah, we can't start with 17 th at because -- 18 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 19 MR. SANTANA: -- everything else is 20 go ing to talk about affordability, what it is. We 21 ca n't start with the other ones. They're going to 22

-- you know, they're going to talk about -- they

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 356 1 ta lk about (inaudible). 2 MR. RAMIREZ: So they'll have impact on 3 th at. 4 MS. STARKEY: Yeah. 5 MR. SANTANA: They're going to 6 (i naudible). 7 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. Okay. 8 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: And move 2 9 to 1 though (inaudible) as 1? 10 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So let me ask 11 th e Group: how is that looking, 1, 2, 3 and 4? 12 Ye ah? 13 MR. SANTANA: You know, I think the 14 im portance of 2 wasn't so much -- you know, 2.1, 15 2. 2 and 2.3, those are a little bit specific. I 16 th ink it was more just understanding that the way 17 th e HUD Code is written and structured, it's a 18 pe rformance code rather than a prescriptive code 19 me aning that, you know, they say, "You need to 20 ha ve X amount of tightness. You need to have X 21 am ount of leakage. You need to account for air 22 in filtration," but it doesn't tell you how.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 357 1 So that's left up to the manufacturer to 2 de termine and demonstrate. So that's what -- what 3 th at means as far as, you know -- so for this to 4 wo rk, I think it has to maintain the same -- it's 5 go t to say the same thing. It has to be more of a 6 pe rformance-based code telling you what the goals 7 ar e instead of telling you what you have to do to 8 ge t to those goals. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: So are you saying that 10 th at's a good -- that Number 2 is in a good place 11 ri ght now? 12 MR. SANTANA: I think that what's in 13 pa renthesis is in a good place "just understand," 14 bu t all the other stuff is too specific to be up 15 so high, I think. 16 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Yeah. 17 MR. WEISS: Just to be clear, I agree 18 wi th Manny as far as the importance of a 19 pe rformance versus prescriptive and just so the 20 re cord's clear, you know, in my view, given the 21 ov erlap with the HUD statute, I think the issue of 22 af fordability relates to every one of these other

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 358 1 is sues; therefore, I would actually put it first. 2 Th at's -- 3 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 4 Af fordability? 5 MR. WEISS: Affordability. 6 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah, but I guess my 7 qu estion is: the complexity and difficulty of 8 ge tting agreement on that. 9 MR. WEISS: I understand what you're 10 sa ying. 11 MR. LUTER: I mean, affordability -- 12 Ro b, with Lippert. Affordability could really be 13 wr apped up under each one of these. It's a lens 14 th rough which we will look at all these issues. 15 MR. LEVY: I actually think there's two 16 is sues of affordability. One is kind of well, the 17 ov erarching issues in which I think everybody's 18 go ing to have to have the opportunity to talk 19 ab out what they think should be the frame for this 20 wh ole discussion. 21 What are we talking about when we're 22 ta lking about "affordability?" We'll drill down

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 359 1 la ter to the assumptions we make that to drive all 2 th e other factors there, all the thermal 3 re quirements, that will happen, I think, later. 4 Bu t there -- it wouldn't be bad to have an opening 5 di scussion about who it is that we're aiming this 6 to wards and what -- how does affordability play 7 in to it, even if it's a very general discussion 8 ju st to start off. 9 MR. RAMIREZ: So you're just saying just 10 ge t the broad context, just have that discussion 11 be fore we start to problem-solve? 12 MR. LEVY: I'm sure Mark and others will 13 wa nt -- and Stacey will want to talk about 14 af fordability and what the standard means in terms 15 of affordability, and that'll be kind of a -- and 16 wh atever we come to as a group, that'll kind of be 17 a frame for how we look at everything else. 18 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, so let me ask you 19 al l because that -- is that a conversation we 20 co uld have in 20 minutes? I don't know. If it 21 is , let's have it. If we need more time, then I 22 su ggest that we start that tomorrow.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 360 1 MS. HOFFMAN: We will, yeah. 2 MR. WEISS: I think the suggestion is a 3 va luable one. I don't think we can do it in 20 4 mi nutes, frankly. 5 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. No problem. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: And, Robin, yeah. 7 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, we could start that 8 of f tomorrow. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: You had a comment? 10 MR. ROY: Robin Roy. Do we have a clear 11 de finition of "the objective" and "the metrics" by 12 wh ich we assess the obtainment of that objective? 13 Where's that fit? Because affordability 14 cl early is one of the things we're very much 15 in terested in. 16 How does that relate to the other 17 ob jectives of this standard? Maybe worth thinking 18 ab out, what we're really, really aiming to do. 19 MR. HAGERMAN: I mean, I -- this is Joe 20 Ha german, with DOE. I sort of agree with you. I 21 me an, you know, I'm an engineer so I'm looking at 22 th is problem as -- through the lens of an

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 361 1 en gineer, right? I'm a -- you know, have a hammer 2 an d everything looks like a nail. 3 You know, what I think we're trying to 4 do , the scope of what we're trying to do for ASRAC 5 is to give them a term sheet on how we get 6 ma nufactured housing to meet the 2015 IECC on a 7 te chnical basis, right? And if you can't 8 te chnically get there because -- you know, David 9 To mpos said something earlier, if singlewide had 10 to go with 2x6s, then the shipping rates would 11 ha ve to increase. That's the type of stuff that 12 we need to know about, right? I don't think it's 13 re ally within the scope that we start discussing 14 wh o might buy these objects so. 15 MR. ROY: The objective is -- well, it's 16 al ready 2015. 2015 is the start of IECC. It's a 17 st arting point from which we go up or down based - 18

- 19 MR. HAGERMAN: Right. 20 MR. ROY: -- on cost effectiveness and 21 co nsiderations of affordability and the role of 22 ma nufactured housing in the nation's affordability

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 362 1 ho using mix particularly for low and middle income 2 fo lks, and the environmental impacts that are 3 as sociated with the -- it's cost effectiveness of 4 en ergy savings with a bunch of conditions you also 5 ha ve to meet or other considerations you have to 6 gi ve, right? Also impact on manufacturers. It's 7 al l obvious to me what it really is (inaudible). 8 Th ey were trying to optimize. 9 MS. DICKENS: Yeah, I think it's just a 10 li ttle bit different animal from residential 11 ho using and there's energy standards for that. 12 With manufactured housing being the most 13 af fordable form of housing for low and moderate 14 in come people, I think the analysis has to include 15 af fordability for the consumer. Everyone deserves 16 a roof over their heads. Manufactured housing is 17 on e of the options on the continuum from 18 ho melessness to full homeownership and I think 19 th at has to be part of the lens through which we 20 se e this. 21 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. Manny? 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Manny?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 363 1 MR. SANTANA: You know, I think they 2 bo th bring up great points, you know. Is the 3 po int -- if the point of this Group is to have HUD 4 un its or HUD homes comply with the 2015 IECC, 5 th at's easy. We just say, "Okay. From now on, 6 HU D homes are to comply with the 2015 IECC." But 7 th at isn't the point, right? 8 The point is: do -- how do we make -- 9 yo u know, the goal, I think, should be to make 10 ma nufactured housing more energy, you know, 11 ef ficient while still getting a bang for your 12 bu ck, you know. 13 How -- what can you do to improve it 14 th at's going to have a significant impact, you 15 kn ow? Because we don't want to make a lot of 16 ch anges that are going to make the house a little 17 bi t more energy efficient but may make the house 18 un affordable for the groups that need to buy it. 19 MR. ROY: It's interesting with the 20 ap pliance and equipment standards process, it's 21 re asonably well-defined what the Secretary's 22 su pposed to look at is: a set of seven conditions.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 364 1 An d it's "The maximum energy savings that are 2 ec onomically justified and technologically 3 fe asible subject to" -- and it goes on for a 4 re asonable list. It's not a bad list. 5 And one thing you might throw into it is 6 th at it seems different in the world of 7 ma nufactured housing is affordability, so it might 8 ac tually be worth going back to look at what the 9 ob jectives are for the appliance and equipment 10 st andards and just throwing them up and seeing how 11 yo u might modify those, because that gives a 12 pr etty reasonable definition of what we're aiming 13 fo r, I suspect, with a couple of qualifiers like 14 wi th respect to affordability for low and moderate 15 in come and also as part of our national affordable 16 ho using policy explicit or implicit, and I think 17 it 's implicit. That might be useful to throw up 18 to morrow. 19 Can you stick that up? 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. Stick what -- 21 (i naudible) an issue? 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 365 1 de finitions. 2 MR. ROY: The definitions in NAECA, the 3 Na tional Appliance Energy Conservation Act, which 4 la ys out what the Secretary is aiming for in 5 ap pliance. 6 MR. LEVY: I don't think we need to. 7 It 's a point of determining (inaudible). 8 MR. ROY: Oh, sorry. Well, I was trying 9 to answer what it is. 10 MR. LEVY: Yeah. 11 MR. ROY: It's -- so it's -- okay. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: Oh, okay. Is that one of 13 th e issues? Okay. 14 MR. ROY: I mean, do you not think it 15 wo uld -- 16 MR. RAMIREZ: You want that as an agenda 17 it em for us to discuss. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah, to look at. 19 MR. ROY: No. 20 MR. RAMIREZ: Is that what you're asking 21 fo r? 22 MR. ROY: Just to throw out so --

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 366 1 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 2 MR. ROY: -- we can have something that 3

-- to see do we agree that that's what we're -- 4 MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 5 MR. ROY: -- aiming to achieve with the 6 st andards we're hoping to get a term sheet for. 7 Ot herwise, we're going to talk about a lot of 8 th ings and affordability will come up and 9 ma nufacture impacts will come up and some 10 en vironmental impacts will come up, but we don't 11 re ally have a -- we won't have a sense of what -- 12 wh at's the objective of this -- of the standard 13 we 're putting a term sheet together for? 14 MR. CASKEY: Well, if I can say it 15 an other way, if I'm correct, Robin, really those 16 ar e the characters -- in order -- if you do come 17 up with a negotiated solution, that's solution 18 ca nnot go forward unless it meets those 19 re quirements. Okay. 20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Right. Okay. 21 MR. CASKEY: From everything else that 22 I've heard from you as well as Manny, I

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 367 1 me an, I didn't walk into to this room with this 2 go al in mind, but from hearing everybody talk, it 3 so unds like what you're really trying to 4 ac complish is: 5 improve overall energy efficiency of 6 ma nufactured housing while maintaining its 7 af fordability. 8 I mean, ultimately, at the end of the 9 da y, you'll be successful if you can find a way to 10 ge t some, you know, quads of energy savings out of 11 th e -- whatever your proposal is, but at the same 12 ti me maintaining affordability so that it can be - 13 - those housing units can be used for what they're 14 us ed today, you know, basically as affordable 15 ho using. 16 I mean, is that -- did that make sense 17 to you? Okay. 18 MS. HOFFMAN: And in terms of the 19 st andards, does someone have a copy we can put up 20 an d look at for tomorrow? 21 MR. HAGERMAN: We'll get that. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. If you could say,

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 368 1 "Y es"? 2 MR. HAGERMAN: Yes, Navigant can give us 3 th at. 4 MS. HOFFMAN: This is a (inaudible), 5 lo w-hanging fruit (inaudible). Okay. Ah, so -- 6 MR. CASKEY: And Lowell's been raising 7 hi s hand for about 10 minutes. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Oh, oh. Yeah. 9 MR. UNGAR: I just think -- you know, I 10 do think it would be illustrative to look at those 11 bu t I just want to note that this is not under the 12

-- 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Right. 14 MR. UNGAR: -- the appliance standards 15 la w. Unlike the appliance standards negotiations 16 un der ASRAC where that has to meet those 17 re quirements, those are -- would be only for 18 pu rposes of illustration. I do think pointing to 19 so me of the -- Page 26 in the Statutory Authority, 20 in the end, DOE has to issue a rule under these -- 21 th is law. 22 And so I think in some sense, our job is

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 369 1 to propose what the best possible way that DOE can 2

-- or what the best possible standard is that 3 me ets the requirements that are here because this 4 is what they actually do have to follow in this 5 ca se. And so I'd -- it's not contradictory to 6 wh at John said in terms of energy efficiency and 7 af fordability, but it's -- you know, it needs to 8 st art from IECC and go -- changes need to be 9 ju stified based on cost effectiveness. And cost 10 ef fectiveness is based on the impact on the 11 pu rchase price and the total lifecycle 12 co nstruction and operating costs. I mean, those 13 ar e all statutory requirements. 14 So if we change the definition of "cost 15 ef fectiveness," it's going to be very hard for DOE 16 to issue it as a rule. 17 MR. HAGERMAN: So you're trying to point 18 ev erybody back to Slide 26? 19 MR. UNGAR: Right. And it seems to me 20 as a real starting point that that is -- to me, 21 th e key is to what the law requires and so we need 22 to kind of -- you know, certainly doesn't mean we

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 370 1 ha ve to agree. Had Congress wanted it to simply 2 me et IECC, Congress would have said, "Meet IECC." 3 Th ey didn't. So presumably, they -- the intent is 4 th at it'd be based on IECC, which is not the same 5 th ing, but to go there and then try to see where 6 it makes sense because of the characteristics of 7 ma nufactured housing and because of the different 8 co st effectiveness -- 9 MR. HAGERMAN: I agree with you on that. 10 MR. UNGAR: -- you know, and financing 11 an d other things obviously change the specifics, 12 bu t that's where we need to start and how -- and 13 th e kind of definition of "cost effectiveness" we 14 sh ould use in order to be looking at what the 15 ch anges we need to make are. 16 MR. ROY: I sounds pretty reasonable to 17 me . The -- I guess a couple of questions are: is 18 th is what the law specifically says? And if 19 th at's actually the case, then I wonder how 20 af fordability shows up in it really if it's just 21 on lifecycle cost effectiveness? 22 MR. WEISS: No, the law is very

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 371 1 sp ecific. If you just look -- take some of the 2 ph rases in here, "cost effective based on the 3 im pact of the Code on the purchase price of 4 ma nufactured housing and on total lifecycle 5 co nstruction costs," so it includes both aspects 6 of it. 7 MR. LEVY: Yeah, Slide 26 is verbatim 8 fr om the statute. 9 MR. WEISS: Is the question of how you 10 in terpret and trade off between lifecycle 11 co nstruction, lifecycle costs and operating cost 12 an d the purchase price. 13 MR. LEVY: Right, (inaudible). 14 MR. WEISS: So there's -- the tradeoff 15 wi ll not (inaudible) energy -- 16 MR. HAGERMAN: Put that to the frame of 17 af fordability. This -- 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) 19 st art. 20 MR. HAGERMAN: Right, this Group has 21 cr eated a new word called "affordability." 22 MR. LEVY: Right, right, but I think

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 372 1 it 's one that is understandable by the American 2 pu blic in a different way than some of these 3 th ings would be, so it may be helpful for us to 4 fr ame some of our thinking. 5 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 6 MR. HAGERMAN: The statute, however, 7 do es not say it must address affordability, just 8 to be clear so. 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 10 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: How 11 im portant is it for all of us in this conversation 12 (i naudible)? 13 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So then 15 to morrow, it sounds like the Group wants to start 16 of f with some general conversation of 17 af fordability, right, and at least make sure that 18 ev eryone's -- at least in the general ballpark 19 be fore we start tackling some of the issues. 20 MR. WEISS: Just sort of in a response 21 to what Joe just said -- and I just handed away my 22 co py of the IECC statute.

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 373 1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It is 2 (i naudible). 3 MR. WEISS: Yeah, it is. And also, 4 im portantly, from our perspective, the concept of 5 af fordability is very well-established within the 6 ma nufactured housing law, the federal manufactured 7 ho using law, and there is an interaction between 8 th ose two statutes that we need to be cognitive of 9 an d concerned with. 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. We have another 11 co mment from Rick Hanger. 12 MR. RAMIREZ: It says, "Affordability of 13 ma nufactured housing needs to be based on purchase 14 pr ice and long-term ownership costs. 'Cheap to 15 bu y' does not mean cheap to operate.'" I think 16 th at some -- 17 MR. WEISS: Well -- 18 MR. RAMIREZ: -- of that discussion that 19 we 're talking about being on the record. 20 MS. HOFFMAN: We'll have tomorrow, I 21 th ink, or -- 22 MR. WEISS: This goes back to the

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 374 1 co mment I made earlier that I'll tell you again. I 2 ha d talked about the flipside, I think, twice 3 al ready. This will be a third time. If you can't 4 af ford to buy it, you can't afford -- you know, 5 it 's not an issue with the long-term operating 6 co st then. 7 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. Okay. It's been a 8 go od, full day, a good, full discussion. And 9 wh ere we are now is potential public comment. We 10 ha ve some people behind us. They're welcome to 11 ma ke any comments or questions. Just introduce 12 yo urself and use the microphone. And thank you 13 fo r staying the whole day. 14 MR. RAMIREZ: Yeah. 15 MR. MENDLEN: Again, I'm Rick Mendlen, 16 wi th HUD. And, Mark, I really appreciate when 17 yo u're in a manufactured home consensus committee 18 me eting and you can't speak and I'm sitting back 19 he re, I can't speak, so I now have some -- 20 MR. WEISS: Tables are turned. 21 MR. MENDLEN: Tables are turned. But 22 th e question I have is for Joe and any of the HUD

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 375 1 -- DOE officials and that is: the 2 co nsultation that's envisioned by the statute, 3 wh en do you think that's going to occur, do you 4 th ink it's going to occur when the term sheet if 5 fi nished, when the proposed rule goes to OMB, when 6 th e proposed rule is published and out for the 7 pu blic to see? Have you guys given any 8 co nsideration to the -- when the actually formal 9 co nsultation will exist? 10 MR. HAGERMAN: So, I mean, Kavita's in 11 th e General Counsel Office, but my understanding 12 is : our GC has been talking to your GC. 13 MR. MENDLEN: That's correct. 14 MR. HAGERMAN: Yeah, so. 15 MR. MENDLEN: I don't think we have any 16

-- we've not reached any agreement on that at all. 17 MS. VAIDYANATHAN: This is Kavita 18 Va idyanathan. We -- of the General Counsel 19 Of fice. We are talking to General Counsel within 20 HU D and we haven't come to an agreement yet on 21 wh en the consultation or what the consultation 22 wi ll look like, but hopefully we can come to an

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 376 1 ag reement and we can consult as required by the 2 st atute. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Mark? 4 MR. WEISS: I'd just like to speak with 5 re gard to what Rick just said. And we've taken a 6 po sition on this. I've said it many times. Our 7 vi ew of this is that there needs to be meaningful 8 co nsultation with HUD. They have been the primary 9

-- not the primary, the only federal regulatory 10 en tity for manufactured housing for many years, 30 11

-- 40? 12 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I believe -- 13 MR. WEISS: Whatever, 76. Anyway -- 14 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: 15 (I naudible). 16 MR. WEISS: And that consultation needs 17 to be at a meaningful phase of these proceeding 18 no t as after-the-fact or pro forma. It needs to 19 be at a meaningful stage of these proceedings so 20 th at HUD can have proper input into the 21 fo rmulation of any final rule. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Any other comments?

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 377 1 Anyone from our members of the public? 2 (No audible response.) 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Anything from our folks by 4 te lephone? 5 MR. HAGERMAN: We're checking right now. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Uh-huh (affirmatively). 7 MR. HAGERMAN: We have one. 8 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 9 (Voices off record.) 10 MS. HOFFMAN: Because we'll be emailing 11 th at. 12 Are you emailing it or having them email 13 it to them? 14 MR. HAGERMAN: (Inaudible) just have one 15 co mment. 16 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 17 MR. HAGERMAN: That's two (inaudible). 18 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Don Surrena. "Don 19 Su rrena. What is the lifecycle costs of 20 ma nufactured housing?" 21 MS. EPPERSON: Is the question what it 22 co nsists of -- this is Stacey -- (inaudible) or

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 378 1 wh at the actual expected costs clarification what 2 is ? 3 MR. HAGERMAN: Why don't we put it in 4 th e parking lot and come back to it. 5 MS. EPPERSON: Yeah. 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 7 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: What it 8 me ans is probably an answer (inaudible). 9 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 10 MS. EPPERSON: Yeah. 11 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 12 MS. EPPERSON: So -- 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Well, go on then, Stacey, 14 yo u wanted to -- 15 MS. EPPERSON: Just adding to it, it's 16 th e cost to operate your home over, you know, 17 lo ng-term, right? And so power is one element of 18 th at. At NextStep, we also look at lifecycle 19 co sts and in terms of some of the maintenance 20 co sts that will be incurred to keep that home in 21 go od shape. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Thank you. So power and

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 379 1 ma intenance. And we'll deal with it tomorrow as 2 we ll. 3 Okay. Well -- 4 MR. HAGERMAN: I'm going to un-mute for 5 Mi chael Lubliner as -- 6 MS. HOFFMAN: Un-mute for Michael. Okay. 7 MR. LUBLINER: Hi. Am I -- I'm here? 8 So one thing that you might want to do 9 is : share the Give Accountability Reports, the one 10 on indoor air quality that was published last year 11 wi th the Committee. Make sure DOE's analysts have 12 re viewed it. 13 And then on Friday, Government 14 Ac countability Office wrote a report about HUD's 15 ma nufactured housing program and identified a 16 nu mber of key issues and recommendations and I 17 th ink it would be appropriate for the Committee 18 an d the DOE staff to also review that. 19 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. So you're -- yeah,. 20 MR. LUBLINER: And I will encourage you 21 to engage the GAO directly and as appropriate. 22 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. So you're talking

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 380 1 ab out last year's Report? 2 MS. DICKENS: Last Friday. 3 MS. HOFFMAN: And last Friday. Two 4 Re ports though. 5 MS. DICKENS: The (inaudible) Report we 6 go t last Friday. 7 MS. HOFFMAN: HUD's Manufactured Housing 8 Pr ogram. 9 MS. DICKENS: Ventilation report 10 (i naudible). 11 MS. HOFFMAN: And October of 2012 is the 12 Ve ntilation Report. 13 MS. DICKENS: Ventilation. 14 MR. LUBLINER: Indoor air quality, yes. 15 MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Well, thank you. 16 MR. LUBLINER: Thank you. 17 MS. HOFFMAN: And any other comments 18 be fore we formally adjourn from Joe or -- do you 19 wa nt to -- 20 MR. HAGERMAN: No, we just appreciate -- 21 MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. 22 MR. HAGERMAN: -- everybody's time. You

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 381 1 kn ow, we're going to work hard to do some fast 2 tu rnaround for you. We're going to move forward 3 to try to get you this -- the materials that you 4 re quested as soon as possible, but it's not 5 lo oking like it's going to be by tomorrow morning 6 or anything. 7 But we appreciate your time, your 8 in terest and look forward to working with you and 9 lo ok forward to this whole Group having really 10 im portant discussions and arriving at a consensus 11 re commendation and term sheet that they give to 12 AS RAC so. 13 MS. HOFFMAN: Yeah. Well, I want to 14 th ank you. We've done a lot today. We've got 15 co nsensus to find. We've got ground rules. It 16 wa s struggled, but we did. We've identified quite 17 a number of topics and issues and some priorities 18 an d got a lot ahead of us, too. And we got to 19 kn ow each other. A lot of your broke bread 20 to gether at the cafeteria and lived so -- and my 21 co lleague, do you want to just close us out? 22 MR. RAMIREZ: Well, so far, I think

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 382 1 we 're off to a good start. So we'll see you 2 br ight-eyed and bushytailed, right, 9:00 o'clock? 3 MS. HOFFMAN: Nine a.m. And we'll be 4 ma iling you the Mind Map. And I'll be bothering 5 po or Joe for more data. Thank you. 6 (WHEREUPON, at 4:30 p.m., the Working 7 Group Meeting was adjourned.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

### Capital Reporting Company Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC 2 I, NATASHA THOMAS, the officer before whom the 3 foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify 4 that the witness whose testimony appears in the 5 foregoing deposition was duly sworn by me; that 6 the testimony of said witness was recorded by me 7 and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my 8 direction; that said deposition is a true record 9 of the testimony given by said witness; that I am 10 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by 11 any of the parties to the action in which this 12 deposition was taken; and, further, that I am not 13 a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 14 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 15 otherwise interested in the outcome of this 16 action. 17 18 19 20 21 22

# ~ Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia

(866) 448 - DEPO 

### www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 

### 2014 383

### Capital Reporting Company Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 2 3 4 I, CORINNE YANOSY, hereby certify that I am not 5 the Court Reporter who reported the following 6 proceeding and that I have typed the transcript of 7 this proceeding using the Court Reporter's notes 8 and recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript 9 is a true, correct, and complete transcription of 10 said proceeding. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22



### (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 384

### Capital**R~porting** 

### Company Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014

1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER 2 3 4 I, Linda A. Knox, do hereby certify that this 5 transcript was prepared from audio to the best of 6 my ability. I am neither counsel for, nor party to 7 this action nor am I interested in the outcome of 8 this action. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

(866) 448

- DEPO 

### www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 

### 2014 385

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 1

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 1 1 193:14 303:4 316:6 320:13 321:19 333:4,8,9 342:22 349:16 351:10 353:7 356:9,11 1,000 173:12 1.4 186:1 1:00 141:1 147:9,12 1:14:36 71:14 10 193:13,14 243:22 249:7 270:9 311:9,10,11 314:11,20 368:7 100 27:4 56:5 58:15 60:18 62:3,16 71:17 100:14 102:15 104:20 110:21 111:1 117:3,19 118:1,4,11 163:21 164:5 197:12 1000 1:10 105 63:12,13 170:15 10th 281:6,12 282:4,8,10,12 285:7 11 310:14 311:8 314:11,20 315:12 316:3,5 319:18 336:16,17 11th 280:17 12 269:7 310:6,7 336:13,16,17,18 12th 280:17

13 314:7,9,10 315:17 316:3 321:20 335:3 14 314:3,6,8,9,10 315:13 316:11 319:9,16 334:2,6 14.7 239:15 15 56:9,18 75:9 145:12 269:7,8 308:16 309:2 313:14 314:3,6 342:5 150 164:15 15-minute 229:6,9 16 313:15,16 314:2 16th 281:22 17 54:4 17th 281:22 18 69:16 313:6 1980s 10:20 1st 283:8 284:8,15,17,20 285:1,9 2 2 213:6 351:14 353:7,17 356:8,11,14 357:10 2.1 356:14 2.2 356:15 2.3 356:15 2:00 25:12 20 312:9 359:20 360:3 2006 244:6 249:13 2009 249:14 252:12

2012 25:22 249:14 252:11,13 260:5 262:22 263:1 264:10,20 268:4,9 346:6,10,17,22 347:6 380:11 2014 1:5 7:13 84:10,14 2015 7:20 244:2 246:15 249:9,12 251:10,13,15 252:11,13 260:5,11 263:1 264:20 265:9 267:18 268:11 289:19 296:3 318:21 319:4 342:14 346:7 361:6,16 363:4,6 20285 1:12 20th 277:10 21st 274:8 275:20 276:1,4,8 277:9,10,12,13 278:18 285:6 221323 304:11 22nd 274:8 275:20 276:1,5 277:9,12,13 278:18 282:15,17 285:6,8 23 168:11 170:14 23rd 282:15,17 285:8 24 237:22 311:1 25 33:14,15 25th 274:4,21 277:2 26 342:13,19

368:19 369:18 371:7 26th 274:4,11,21 277:2 28th 273:3,11 29th 273:3 283:6 2-B 94:2 2nd 283:8,9,21 284:20 285:1,9 2x4 297:3 2x6 297:3 2x6s 361:10 3 3 193:15,19 313:14,15,16 314:1 316:10,12 319:16 320:13 333:7 335:6 353:17 355:6 356:11 3:00 257:6 271:20 3:30 255:5,7,14 30 376:10 30-minute 229:3 30th 7:13 31:14 33:10 36:21 84:9,14 283:7 3rd 283:9,21 284:1 4 4 1:5 316:6 338:7 340:4 356:11 4(a 150:19 171:11 4(c 151:10,13 171:17 4(h 150:19 155:5

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 2

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 4:30 12:7 382:6 40 267:19 376:11 413 7:9 4C 112:10,14 137:11 141:13 4E 112:11,15 4G 137:21 138:7 4th 284:1,2 5 5 321:16,20 322:1 334:3 5.1 301:19 5.2 301:19 5:00 12:6 255:4,12,15 257:16,19 258:3 270:22 272:4,6 278:21 285:21 345:13 50 56:1,2 163:21,22 164:3 500 176:5 50-to-100 169:10 55 47:5 551 334:18 6 6 312:10,16 6.5 239:16 60-day 41:6 7 7 292:3 331:5 338:22 7.6 332:3 75 164:1,14 239:12 76 376:13 7th 26:17 8 8 322:4,6 336:19 8.5 338:5 8/7/2014 384:17 80s 10:21 9 9 310:16 312:14,15 322:9,10 351:20 9:00 255:3 285:11,14,19,21 382:2 9:04 1:6 9:30 3:10 90 41:9 121:13 202:1 900 90:2 115:5 173:22 185:19 90-day 41:4 9th 281:6,7,8,12 282:3,8,9,10,12 285:7 A a.m 1:6 382:3 AA 35:12 80:3 abided 157:22 ability 114:22 141:7 244:9 294:10 385:6 able 95:21 102:18,21 107:15 145:18 148:16 162:22 163:12 173:1 193:1 200:6 214:3,5 222:4

257:3 276:7 277:1 290:8 297:5 302:15 311:20 327:13 absence 136:16 absent 63:17 73:22 absolutely 117:16 abstain 57:3 231:22 232:1,10 abstained 151:22 235:13 abstaining 51:6 Abstentions 74:1 accept 31:21 32:9,12 100:2 145:19 180:7 acceptable 48:7,14 49:1 73:9 92:19 218:10 accepted 32:6,14 33:15,18 37:9 40:21 70:10 136:17 201:20 235:21 236:4 246:2 247:19 accepts 190:1 access 4:10 11:11 65:17 266:20 accessible 41:18 accommodate 262:19 accomplish 367:4 according 97:3 account 253:21 356:21 Accountability 379:9,14 accurately 340:7 achieve 142:11,14 175:4 182:6 366:5 achieved 157:7 335:13 achieving 112:3 acoustics 330:16,20 333:15,20,22 338:6 340:6 acronym 16:5 acronyms 16:3 across 9:11 63:13 147:4 act 4:2 90:17 91:1 125:19 135:16,19,20 212:17 365:3 acting 125:5 201:8 action 6:10 60:22 98:22 99:18,21 102:22 107:19 112:14 114:22 115:18 119:20 120:2 153:12 194:17 383:11,16 385:7,8 actions 159:15 196:21 201:1 348:6 active 28:18 actively 38:5 activities 7:13 238:6 245:5 actual 83:9 89:2 93:3 98:4 139:5 143:10 144:13 212:5 299:14

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 3

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 302:3 378:1 actually 4:5 8:10 10:9 11:1,5,18 12:17 14:21 15:9 25:11,19 28:18,19 30:4 39:16 42:4,7 47:7 66:7 69:16 109:6 122:14 125:3 128:8 133:19 134:1 135:5 147:16 152:20 157:7 174:15,18 176:10 179:5 186:7 187:10 190:16 194:9,17,22 195:19 200:9 204:1 206:15 219:20 221:1 236:10 257:4 270:6 289:2 306:22 309:3 322:20 325:5 331:11 334:11 345:17 352:22 355:6 358:1,15 364:8 369:4 370:19 375:8 adamantly

102:4 add 104:15 124:13 143:11 159:12 206:9 209:21 245:20 252:14 288:18 307:14 313:7 341:16 added 101:7,12 155:13 161:6 228:11 adding 150:18 160:11 172:7 210:6 378:15 addition 72:7 347:12 additional 47:12 71:8 120:2 172:3,6 175:6 209:15 217:3 341:16 342:2 address 8:7 72:21 73:1 75:5 98:7 99:4 101:16 103:9 115:1 126:1 127:6 161:16 173:4 188:4,11 189:6 195:22 197:6 215:10 222:11 372:7 addressed 75:14 88:1 94:2 129:15 296:21 addresses 113:9 161:19 217:5 231:14 259:14 addressing 146:6 153:6 adds 107:22 160:21 adequate 59:20 62:11 259:16 adjourn 142:3 380:18 adjourned 382:7 administrative 90:22 174:11 241:10 admitted 106:5 adopt 241:12 adopting 232:20 235:4 adoption 240:18 advance 185:20 244:16 advantage 268:12 adversarial 29:10 adverse 107:18 112:13 119:20 advice 3:15 234:19 advise 3:21 75:6 advisor 21:15 26:8 Advisory 3:17 4:2 135:18 advocate 13:9 119:2 affect 300:19 affected 66:22 67:4 75:13 affirm 57:3 affirmative 119:11 affirmatively 149:9 152:3 155:10 157:1 164:18 180:11 195:5 197:13 198:14 202:11 203:5 212:9 218:11 228:3 269:20 307:7 315:14 317:18 327:3 340:18 343:4 346:8 353:5 377:6 affirming 56:22 afford 332:9 374:4 affordability 294:1,9,15,16,19 308:2 309:12 310:4,21 311:22 324:18 330:22 331:4,6,11,17 332:2 336:7,8,10

337:20 352:7,10 353:8 355:2,20 357:22 358:4,5,11,12,16 ,22 359:6,14,15 360:13 361:21,22 362:15 364:7,14 366:8 367:7,12 369:7 370:20 371:17,21 372:7,17 373:5,12 affordable 240:8 362:13 364:15 367:14 afraid 172:5 afternoon 25:11,12 239:19 255:5 348:5 after-the-fact 376:18 against 46:3,8 86:15 96:17 107:5,9 154:10 193:19 200:4 203:2 275:7 agency 3:14 10:10,20 21:4 133:15 241:10 242:1 Agency's 85:20 agenda 3:7 9:22 12:5 15:9 17:12 19:4 136:11 365:16 ago 243:22 246:16,17 249:7 264:10,15 265:1 agreeable 74:22 83:13 135:12

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 4

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 140:5 agreed 85:3 87:21 95:20 104:8 105:3,4,19 123:15 142:14,17 143:16 145:2 148:14 151:21 154:22 156:11 157:22 173:10 202:6 212:5 agreeing 132:11,12,13 134:6 142:19 agreement 11:4 17:10 45:20,22 46:7 49:4 58:10 60:14,21 71:16,18 73:8 79:15 84:7,15,16,21 87:6 100:17 106:12 110:5 111:4,9 121:18 156:22 157:2,4,5,6,9,16 158:3,11 182:12 183:13,16 221:2 232:6 235:3 246:1 303:22 343:10 350:12 358:8 375:16,20 376:1 agreements 74:3 Agriculture 11:17 Ah 368:5 ahead 3:8 18:14 28:1 43:22 56:22 101:2 112:19 119:5 147:11 183:1 203:20 224:16 229:8 230:1 236:15 249:14 283:17 301:13 328:12 334:9 351:3 381:18 aim 46:13 aiming 359:5 360:18 364:12 365:4 366:5 air 26:19 253:20 254:3,10 260:17 290:1 293:19 304:11 306:7,20,21 307:22 325:13,14,16,19 334:3,5 335:13 339:6,22 345:5 356:21 379:10 380:14 airlines 11:11 airplane 245:6,7 airports 11:12 Alliance 20:11 240:17 242:13 all-or-nothing 183:10 allow 44:20 117:19 130:10 148:19 173:8 183:8 290:18 allowed 111:20 158:19 206:17 340:8 already 16:2 32:21 34:12 35:19 42:5 101:11 129:12 170:12 252:12 255:14 262:15 269:11 341:10 361:16 374:3 alternate 19:10,11,12 67:18,22 68:7,9,12,19 69:4,10,21 72:8 279:2,3 alternates 67:18 68:18 71:1 72:13 74:5 278:7 286:2 alternative 45:20,21,22 46:1,3,7 54:21 55:3 62:22 130:22 131:4 148:16 158:18 162:4,8 163:1 247:14 289:20 291:16 316:14 317:3 alternatives 47:19 62:21 67:16 am 18:6 21:11,12 25:20 27:11 59:22 98:9 141:7 179:12 211:22 240:3,6,20 328:5 379:7 383:9,12 384:4 385:6,7 ambiguity

206:9 amend 245:21 amended 232:20 amendments 137:7 American 20:7 240:13 372:1 among 139:19 241:2 amongst 7:3 42:15 amount 128:9 259:4 260:12 356:20,21 analogy 42:10 267:9

analyses 35:13 129:2 analysis 29:1 30:11 35:5,7 78:10,15 84:16 85:2,7,9 146:10 155:17 187:3 236:18 243:5,21 244:8 248:3,10,13,20 249:8 251:17 252:8,15 253:2,7,12,22 260:1,3,4 268:3,19,22 269:14 270:1,11 294:6,8 321:4 324:16 347:12,19 349:11 362:14 analysts 379:11 and/or 78:15 188:4 253:19 and-will-block 184:21 animal 362:10 announce 249:6 announced 135:22 annual 251:2 253:4 answer 37:15 40:16 63:6 78:19 80:12 186:19 250:9 270:5 305:6 332:20 337:8,9 345:18 351:4 352:5 365:9 378:8 answering 120:4 260:7

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 5

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 anticipate 35:5 248:6 249:4 anticipated 84:21 anticipation 244:1 anxiety 166:11 anybody 37:14 44:11 110:4 118:20 148:15 165:14 204:16 212:14,17 217:11 285:18 anybody's 167:22 168:8 anymore 352:18 anyone 45:18 54:2 68:15 77:11 79:11 106:1 108:1 111:1 118:22 135:10 146:22 202:17 316:18 377:1 anything 8:6,18 10:8 55:22 58:9 59:10 64:12 90:8 102:5 106:2 108:3 115:17 119:20 124:15,16 125:18 141:14 144:1 148:1 157:7 160:6 175:1 181:8 184:6 193:19 220:22 236:22 244:8 252:9,18 282:21 295:14 324:17 339:5 348:2,20 349:10,11,12 352:15 377:3 381:6 Anything's 206:10 anyway 30:12 122:13 123:12,17 124:17 130:6 135:12 139:11 158:14 175:3 184:9 189:2 195:1 223:19 226:18 376:13 anyways 355:12 anywhere 41:14 177:5 303:12 APA 98:16 139:1 apart 49:13 188:20 307:20 apologies 63:2 apologize 309:1 appeals 199:13 appear 84:7 appearance 5:13 appears 232:8 383:4 apple 126:5 164:20 appliance 3:16 6:20 26:8 41:11 157:13 270:3 363:20 364:9 365:3,5 368:14,15 appliances 41:14 307:14 applicable 4:3,5 5:5 297:17 applicants 70:9 applications 33:19 applied 21:10 26:1 applies 94:16 217:17

apply 101:12,19 111:8 217:18 251:12 316:12 336:22 337:3 appointed 67:4,9 appreciate 103:16 231:8 374:16 380:20 381:7 appreciation 336:5 appreciative 12:10 approach 103:21 217:15 304:13 approaches 215:8 appropriate 72:21 81:4,10 85:10 131:3 162:7 174:11 259:16 342:16 379:17,21 appropriately 137:3 approval 72:16 77:12 136:21 171:9,16 233:10 approve 139:8 166:22 171:20 approved 136:14 235:7,14 243:12 area 19:19 21:2 70:20 329:13 areas 95:16 306:1 342:18 352:5 aren't 38:15 111:5 145:13,14 150:6 183:21 222:21 296:4 argue 212:11 216:13 218:5

argued 157:19 arguing 49:20 103:18 216:21 217:13 226:18 287:22 argument 129:12 339:21 arise 200:3 Arizona 20:13 Arlington 21:8 arm 242:13 arms 58:8 arrest 144:3 arriving 381:10 aside 142:20 aspect 127:2 143:13 aspects 26:22 27:4 262:17 266:11 269:2 371:5 aspirational 124:10 159:10,12 174:6,7 194:3 212:13 213:2 217:3,20 222:18 ASRAC 3:5,6 6:7 7:5,15 21:12,13 24:16 25:22 26:2,16,20 27:17,18,22 31:2,3,13,17,20, 22 32:4,5,13,15 33:12 36:14 37:10,16 38:10 40:10,13,21 42:22 43:3 65:2 66:13,14 84:10,14 95:5

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 6

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 129:21 157:14 170:2,10 171:1 189:21 190:1,4 207:21 237:8 243:12,19 245:18 246:2 247:19 344:5 361:4 368:16 381:12 ASRAC's 27:13 65:19 188:4,11 189:20 ass 16:12 assess 360:12 assessment 248:4 253:16,18 assessments 248:20 assign 69:5 assistance 139:20 242:12 Assistant 3:12 Associate 239:21 associated 248:11,14 253:18 362:3 association 19:18,21 20:22 187:14,16 237:16 239:12 241:19 242:4 associations 175:22 assume 25:3 137:10 220:11 232:10 333:14 assumed 73:22 assuming 81:8,14 97:11 assumption 35:11 111:6 256:20 assumptions 251:3 270:11 294:1,7 359:1 Attached 65:18 attack 304:13 attempt 133:13 203:13 204:19 205:9 225:7 attend 33:2 67:20 72:3,9,10 74:5 attendance 72:1,2,5 230:10 attending 72:22 attention 6:5,8 attorney 383:13 audible 254:13 377:2 audience 22:10 118:15 audio 385:5 August 1:5 273:1,3 274:6,7 276:4 285:6 authority 80:17 115:10,12 243:17 246:6 368:19 authorized 7:9 81:15 autonomously 80:10 available 112:5 153:17 248:4 258:14,20 262:16 263:3 268:9 271:1 344:15 354:18 Avenue 1:10

average 54:3,4 avoid 175:11 197:3 214:8 224:7 aware 14:15 295:18 awareness 299:21 300:3 336:22 337:3,18 away 115:19 150:18 152:18 154:20 258:12 292:22 372:21 Awesome 236:17 awkwardness 201:16 B background 19:7 backwards 122:7 bad 53:14 57:10 89:13 106:2 142:18 170:6 196:1 207:16 359:4 364:4 badge 9:12,15,17 badly 174:10 ballpark 372:18 bang 363:11 Bangladesh 57:13,18 bar 115:15,17,18 265:13,15,18 266:2 Barbour 2:17 21:22 Barkas 10:4 14:16 16:16,21 17:19 18:11,22 19:13

22:6 24:3,6,13,20 34:9 42:1 43:9,14 44:10 57:15,20 62:1 63:22 64:16,22 66:2 68:6,9,12,17,19 69:1,6,9 70:2,4,13,16,22 71:15,19 73:15 74:13,17,21 76:2,9 77:1,5 78:3,11,19 79:1,10 80:12,16 81:2 82:11,21 83:6,12 84:2 85:15 86:7,10,14 87:2,8,13 88:2,18 91:8,18,21 92:4,9,13,22 93:11,21 94:5,20 95:11 96:19 98:19 99:13 101:3 102:6 108:15,19 109:15 110:14 112:7,17,20 113:10 114:9,12 116:16 119:15 120:10,20 122:21 124:22 127:16,19 128:2 130:8,15,18 131:14 132:7 133:7 134:17,21 137:1,6,17 138:9,13 140:4,8,15,18,20 141:11,16,19,22 143:9 144:8 146:3,18 147:2,8

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 7

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 barred 181:14 barrier 326:9,18 barriers 325:9 334:12,20 base 287:6 based 19:19 20:4,8,11 21:2 46:14 79:5 80:10,22 109:1 113:4 114:15 138:18 170:8 222:15 241:20 246:13 247:5 268:4 292:17 304:15 342:17 352:12 361:17 369:9,10 370:4 371:2 373:13 baseline 249:16 250:4 266:21 267:7,11 344:19 345:8 basement 147:7 bashing 106:11 basically 37:1 78:8 112:22 119:1 137:11 171:3 179:12 214:7 293:11 342:13 367:14 basis 12:22 85:16,18 87:7 90:20 162:6 361:7 bathroom 18:8 BATNA 45:19,21 battle 114:21 Beard 3:13 beast 187:11 beat 163:14 166:17 178:10 211:4 223:12 224:17 beating 17:5,8 194:13 become 90:22 becomes 67:12 91:7 247:22 248:1 beginning 69:11 189:8 begun 71:10 behalf 25:6 37:16 68:1 90:7 116:10 153:20 175:9 176:3 177:16 behaving 195:19 behind 51:22 112:1 143:1,6 169:7 188:10 194:18 198:3 223:3 374:10 belabor 146:6 159:1 believe 7:17 23:12 25:11 40:13 56:8 59:3 63:13 79:6 167:12 180:18 183:17 185:8 208:2 233:15 251:13 254:6 267:8 321:4,6,9 326:18 329:2 376:12 believes 75:11 benefit 4:13 102:11 222:7 benefits 28:13 besides 26:17 145:22 best 12:5 15:5

36:21 45:19,22 59:14 100:13 103:8 123:18 128:20 144:16 191:22 209:21 231:16 250:9 261:6 369:1,2 385:5 better 11:5,6 28:8 71:6 126:9 129:11 133:15 194:4 197:1 204:22 221:1 222:14 254:1 266:16 273:22 274:22 275:16 276:5 277:14 285:15,16 290:13 314:19 324:16 343:1 345:21 beyond 97:18 bigger 114:21 bill 247:22 billing 106:6 143:11 bind 118:2 124:1 132:12,16 178:17 210:11 226:20 binding 74:7 87:11 93:12 124:14 144:18,22 160:17 175:2,3 222:20 birthday 273:11 284:12 bit 10:6 14:9 19:7 22:16 25:1,4 35:4 39:1 44:3 49:5 53:3 58:22 61:5,12 64:7

79:8 90:13 99:1,17 117:5,11,13,21 120:22 122:9 124:7 134:10,19 138:3 150:14 153:2 163:3 183:19 184:1 188:16 197:9 206:13 232:2,7 243:14,21 255:13,21 270:16 271:6 287:5 290:13,16 312:4 314:16 326:6,7 346:5 356:15 362:10 363:17 bite 164:19 bites 126:5 bits 222:22 black 30:11 blah 193:8 blatant 290:4 block 48:9,10,16,18 49:2 53:12,13 54:17 55:1,2 185:3 blocked 185:5 blocker 53:13 blocking 54:16 56:20 100:11 board 74:10 bodies 185:22 body 57:20 bogeyman 143:18 bogged 36:12

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 8

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 boogeyman 166:15 book 142:1 books 272:21 boss 10:13,15 159:18 bothering 382:4 bottom 113:2 197:16 231:13 bound 87:12 91:16 111:6 113:8 126:13 127:13 133:1 136:17 141:14 176:19,21 box 30:12 120:22 328:21 bracelet 223:18 brainpower 163:11 brainstorm 291:1 bread 381:19 break 9:5,10 17:13,14,17,21 18:1 43:11,15,21 48:5 109:10 127:9,17 130:16 132:8 133:8 134:14 147:13 229:3,6,9 339:1 breaking 134:19 326:5 breaks 17:12,15 53:18 breath 116:18 brief 18:10 19:2 31:12 43:21 69:10 71:3 159:18 briefings 3:19 237:19 bright-eyed 382:2 bring 6:5,8 52:14 76:16 77:11 78:12 79:11 83:3,4 126:3 129:20 146:16 173:14 187:1 189:5 206:12 211:12 273:15 307:9 310:9 346:13,18 347:3 348:18 363:2 bringing 131:12 192:9 272:12 brings 108:20 brining 79:7 broad 127:3 294:13,14 296:18 306:18 333:13 341:16 342:13 350:2 359:10 broader 293:18 297:14 306:10 broadly 294:8 324:13 333:1 broke 294:18 381:19 broken 292:22 294:15 312:18 328:6 brought 15:14 78:9 180:8 210:9 224:19 286:17 293:7 347:15 Bryan 24:10 buck 363:12 buffet 9:13 build 104:22 250:19 300:14 builder 240:21 building 1:11 21:11,15,21 241:12 242:12,14 buildings 299:14 bullet 33:21 112:16 bumping 275:7 bunch 126:18 198:9 261:17 362:4 burden 330:17 334:1 bushytailed 382:2 business 164:16 242:14 busy 12:10 71:7 button 38:1 buy 130:7 186:21 239:22 294:11 361:14 363:18 373:15 374:4 buyers 240:10 buy-in 49:11 buying 147:1,3 C cafeteria 9:11 14:17 147:4 381:20 calendar 33:7 calendars 272:13 candidate 298:16,19 capital 1:20 163:8 capture 185:10 196:14 256:3,6 290:19 291:20 328:9 captured 136:4 155:9 card 113:21 care 8:16 99:15 128:19 129:7 233:15 234:1 careful 196:16 317:7 Carolina 176:8 carried 170:8 carry 119:9 182:21 200:17 cartoon 247:22 carving 164:17 case 27:14 33:2 51:16 59:21 62:17 63:10 64:19 69:16 105:4,5,22 126:7 128:21 129:2 138:20 157:20 159:19 160:7 187:9 208:2 251:21 272:18 283:4,16 342:22 346:16 353:6 369:5 370:19 cases 40:20 328:20 345:2 Caskey 2:14 21:13 25:10 31:11,22 237:14 239:18 240:2,15,22 241:5,15,17 242:7,10,16,21 243:1,3 253:14 254:8 338:4,9

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 9

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 366:14,21 368:6 casting 68:1 catchall 294:12 categories 307:1 category 297:15 306:18 313:1 333:6 339:6 350:2 caucus 67:5 73:10 78:8 caucuses 29:3 75:18 caught 256:21 cause 38:3 123:9,10 caution 350:5 Cavco 20:12 68:5 94:10 112:8 119:17 141:12 144:10 168:14 240:21 266:8 300:11 304:3 cease 7:13 ceases 67:13 central 26:19 CEO 89:15 115:6,14 237:17,18 CEOs 210:11 CEO's 115:5 116:1 cert 39:6 63:11 certain 7:15 16:13 26:22 49:21 78:16 136:11 149:13 154:18 156:9 327:9 328:20 certainly 142:7 154:7 186:1 253:17 259:15 292:19 307:6 332:7 354:18 369:22 CERTIFICATE 383:1 384:1 385:1 certification 27:1 39:8 certify 27:4 383:3 384:4 385:4 cetera 269:12 270:4 297:21 chair 33:22 challenge 88:13 122:6 160:15 174:10 184:8 186:14 207:12,18 challenges 87:18 132:2 challenging 186:8 chance 14:8,21 34:19 36:8 168:10 187:4 196:20 change 3:7 71:22 74:18 118:4 155:7 186:12 195:7 264:13 268:11 317:21 321:3 347:6 369:14 370:11 changed 74:10 95:17 244:3 265:11 346:21 changes 154:6 160:1 222:9 263:1 264:17,20 267:19 269:7

346:11 363:16 369:8 370:15 changing 103:12 143:19 155:6 217:4 characteristics 299:13 315:20 370:6 characters 366:16 charge 34:5 charm 223:18 chart 30:22 37:11 charter 3:5,6 7:5 26:2,9 31:4 37:13 38:7,18 39:9,11 chartered 26:17 38:11 cheap 373:14,15 check 18:3,8 24:8 51:15 55:8 166:20 167:3 230:2,17 252:1 263:5,6 271:19 296:12 351:6 checked 151:8 checking 86:12 278:14 377:5 checks 55:5 62:14 162:18 chew 35:6 Chicago 12:16 13:1 children 16:22 chime 162:11 255:16 choice 45:11,17 137:18

chunks 54:3 circle 267:17 circles 121:1 circulating 261:7 circumvent 259:19 cited 250:20 City 10:14 claim 265:6 clarification 63:19 76:10,12,21 107:12 218:19 378:1 clarified 247:1 clarifies 94:22 98:2 clarify 16:8 42:9 50:15 68:14 74:10 89:11 98:11 104:5,6 107:1 268:17 309:21 class 42:14 111:11,14 clause 93:15 232:4 clauses 188:7 Clayton 20:5 95:3 97:7 clean 170:4 201:20 202:9 clean-up 334:2 clear 13:5 35:22 37:6,7 42:5 54:13 55:10,19 61:3,17 79:13 103:3 104:2 107:10 131:5 141:5 149:5

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 10

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 167:19 235:3 357:17,20 360:10 372:8 cleared 25:18 clearer 77:7 310:1 clearly 31:21 260:19 321:10 360:14 clerical 81:13 climate 247:12,13 289:19,21 292:19 293:1 301:8 304:9 307:5 321:3 342:22 353:22 close 33:15 56:5 58:14 59:14 62:15 117:19 141:4 197:12 268:7 381:21 closer 113:12,18,19 130:21 cloth 261:2 Coast 10:15 69:20 coated 170:17 code 7:17 240:19 241:12 244:4 250:20 251:10,11 264:9,22 265:12 266:10,11 267:2,20 304:9 318:21 345:3 354:17 356:17,18 357:6 371:3 Codes 20:11 21:11 240:17 264:20 coffee 8:16 cognitive 373:8 Cohen 23:10 coils 170:17 collaborate 117:2 colleague 12:14 381:21 colleagues 10:18 39:16 80:8 231:14 color 352:11 Columbia 383:21 column 269:14 C-O-M 296:8 combination 140:22 combinations 270:7 combine 134:13 combined 217:21 316:11 comes 5:12 6:2 31:15 32:8 37:7 56:15 60:20 61:2 88:7,20 93:7 94:17 95:19 96:13 100:13 104:10 152:6 153:15 154:6 180:20 190:2 193:6 201:19 332:8 comfortable 112:21 122:10 151:9 172:4 217:20 230:21 276:10 329:18 coming 7:1 30:20 105:18 116:20 121:9 128:20 195:2 211:15

244:1 245:11,12 commended 56:14 comment 12:8 13:21 34:19 41:6 62:6 89:16 95:15,22 97:4,7,16,18,21 98:2,22 99:5,12,19,21 101:4 106:14 107:19 109:3,4 110:16 112:12,18 115:9,10 118:14 124:15 127:22 130:18 132:10 133:16 138:16 142:6 143:12,14 144:2 153:22 154:8,9 160:15 166:10 169:21 173:2,19 174:1 176:6,9,10 177:1 178:1 181:7,15 182:17 191:5,7,13 192:8,19,21 193:6,12,17,22 200:15,16,18 201:4,9,13 202:2,7 206:16,17 209:15 222:5,12 226:9 227:20 246:8 264:7 270:17 295:12 301:4 321:14,18 325:1 340:7,20 342:11 348:21 349:3 360:9 373:11 374:1,9 377:15 commented 182:15 278:1

commenting 99:8 119:19 303:4 comments 14:1 15:1 41:7 85:22 86:1,15,18 87:17 88:6,10 94:15 95:14,15,22 96:8,16 102:6 103:12 107:5 112:10 114:13,18 115:16 116:12 127:17 130:14,16 132:4,7,9 134:15,16 137:13 138:18,19 139:7,14 141:9 143:19 144:21 145:1 151:2,4,16 152:1 155:15 156:20 159:6 160:17 161:13 167:9,10 168:15 171:8 173:4 175:7 177:18,21 182:5 184:8 185:4 191:20 192:2 193:3 194:21 195:22 197:7 199:8,12 200:21 203:16 205:13 210:2 214:15 215:4 222:11 225:10,20 227:22 228:5 244:18,19 278:15 286:10 305:9 374:11 376:22 380:17 commercial

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 11

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 27:1,5,7 39:6 63:11 65:20 170:17 347:2 committed 266:4 committee 3:15,17 4:2 5:20 6:7 26:3,9 31:3,20,22 32:4,5 66:16 70:10 79:16,18 80:13,19 82:10 83:16,18 87:7 91:2 100:4,20 112:13 120:17 122:19 169:22 170:3 190:2 246:12 254:7 255:1 374:17 379:11,17 committees 87:10 common 142:1 150:22 176:2 245:11 communicate 197:21 198:5 community

20:17 241:9 242:9 260:14 C-O-M-P 296:9 company 1:20 4:19,20 196:8 compare 249:10,13 compared 239:16 275:4 compares 244:5 compete 48:2 competitiveness 295:15 296:6 311:21 complete 7:11 37:1 384:9 completed 328:21 completely 48:5,14 49:1 101:13 122:17 143:21 183:20 185:5 186:2 complexity 358:7 compliance 35:1 40:2 41:12 42:6 318:9,15,17,18 321:12 323:9 complicated 48:21 comply 144:14 363:4,6 component 126:20 293:14 components 20:15 39:13 63:3 131:21 241:2 244:12 250:4 293:15 307:14 compromise 142:22 143:1,6 161:18 compromised 214:2 concept 373:4 concern 46:21 54:20 65:3 92:6 130:3 133:21 134:5 146:13,14 153:18 161:19,20 173:11,13,15,22 174:2 182:13 189:17 218:3 303:15 concerned 5:13 97:9,10 141:7 158:1,2 164:7 166:7 217:15 232:8 373:9 concerning 86:2 concerns 73:7 103:7 114:22 125:22 126:2 130:2 150:6 156:7 183:5 188:4,12 197:6 224:3 296:22 Conciliation 10:11 conclude 84:13 concurrence 71:11,16,20 73:22 81:19,21 109:19 110:10 114:16,18 252:19 condemn 342:15 conditioner 26:19 conditions 362:4 363:22 conducted 135:18 conference 9:4 230:8 276:13,14 confidently 61:14 confines 139:22 confirm 57:4 confirmation 55:9,11 Conflict 22:14,19 conflicts 5:6,8 confused 338:5 confusing 181:20 Congress 370:1,2 cons 80:5 consensus 5:18 7:2,7 8:3 10:9 27:21 28:1,7,10 30:17 31:8,10,18 35:15 36:1,3,4,7,10 37:8 43:17 44:3,5,15 45:2,5 46:10 48:3,4,12 49:7 53:11 55:9,10,21 58:3,15,22 59:12,14,20 60:9,16 61:18 63:20 66:10,16 67:22 71:19,20 73:17,18 74:15 81:22 83:16 84:3,13 87:19 88:7,8,22 95:21 98:12,13 99:8,10 100:2,8,9,19 101:19,22 102:9,12 104:1,3,8,9,14,1 5 105:3 107:5 108:9 109:20 110:6,8,12 111:12 112:3,13 113:13 117:22 118:1,4 121:14 124:12 129:3,19 131:12 136:16 142:12,14 148:9 152:17 153:11 154:17,19 158:10 162:3,17 164:14,16,22 165:8,9 169:12 170:5,9 171:10 174:8,18 175:15,16 178:17,22 179:18 180:7 181:6 182:6

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 12

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 183:6,13 188:10,18 189:9,10,22 193:21 198:19 201:19 202:5 203:8,14,15 204:20 205:10,12 206:15 209:5 210:1 211:1,8,9 213:20 214:12 215:3 218:9 219:4 220:18 221:8,12,14 224:7 225:8,9,19 227:1,2,6 231:21 232:11 236:7 244:13 246:12 344:4 374:17 381:10,15 consensused 97:2,8 consent 174:16 236:4 Conservation 240:19 365:3 conservative 159:16 160:2 192:7 consider 8:5 86:1 109:4 137:13 139:13 154:8 191:21 247:9 254:3 261:12 347:14 351:5 considerable 259:4 consideration 90:10 137:9 139:16 154:3 244:8 375:8 considerations 361:21 362:5 considered 60:9 82:13 108:12 109:9 164:15 169:20 170:13 181:11 201:4 253:9 consist 75:9 consistent 85:20 consists 67:3 377:22 constituents 197:22 Constituent's 73:6 constitute 79:16 constitutes 146:12 constraints 350:20 constructed 249:12 construction 247:7,10 289:21 291:16 316:14 369:12 371:5,11 constructive 116:4 construed 74:2 89:16,22 90:9 106:14 107:18 136:15 182:3,4,11 192:8 consult 376:1 consultants 29:22 35:12 80:8 consultation 246:9 375:2,9,21 376:8,16 Consulting 22:1,5 consumer

299:21 300:1,3 336:21 337:2,18 362:15

consumers 134:3 231:18 248:17 contained 304:8 content 13:10,11 351:19 contentious 202:21,22 contest 61:1 142:16 contested 142:11 context 4:17 5:12 83:15 98:5 116:22 127:3 140:10,13 143:12 161:11 359:10 contexts 82:8 83:10 contingent 179:14 continue 255:12 257:11 258:2 continuing 257:1 continuum 362:17 contradictory 369:5 contrary 164:21 control 13:10,11 139:6 184:16 controlled 13:18 controversial 124:1 135:4 137:14 convene 8:20 9:5 convened 82:18 convenience 136:7 conversation 13:19 40:5 58:7 160:22 181:2

264:16 303:20 359:19 372:11,16 convince 148:17 212:21 213:15,16 214:5 cooling 293:11 333:16 cooperate 117:2 cooperative 19:18 176:5,22 239:11 co-ops 90:2 115:5 copies 41:17 42:2 66:3 245:3 copy 346:11,18 347:4 367:19 372:22 core 224:20 295:6 CORINNE 384:4,17 Corolla 267:12,13 correct 59:16 79:9 93:8 94:18,19 96:11 97:17 156:12 158:15 179:21 213:10 215:18 219:2 264:16 312:19 328:15 344:17 366:15 375:13 384:9 corrective 6:9 Cosgriff 237:18 cost 105:8 246:19,20 247:4 248:15 268:2 294:6,17 308:4 324:18 332:10 338:1 361:20

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 13

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 362:3 369:9,14 370:8,13,21 371:2,11 374:6 378:16 cost-effective 329:19 cost-effectiveness 352:8 costs 247:7 253:3 331:1,7,20 369:12 371:5,11 373:14 377:19 378:1,19,20 couch 143:13 173:9 Council 20:8,20 240:13 241:14 counsel 3:12 21:20 72:20 81:13 88:5 122:15 132:21 133:4 139:21 210:9,10 211:16 228:18 246:11 277:4 348:1 375:11,18,19 383:10,13 385:6 counsels 210:10 counsel's 21:20 23:11 26:11 90:18 96:10 97:21 106:21 230:18 251:19 count 56:11 150:21 151:2 counted 56:8 counter 94:16 counting 42:2 169:18 country 240:19 273:9 296:2 couple 14:18 16:18 23:13 28:5 36:17 49:8 51:13 64:14 65:12 88:21 112:16 144:19 162:12 172:11 198:19 199:15 236:20 258:10 276:8 283:17 307:9 324:11 325:6 330:6 364:13 370:17 course 9:10 175:2 245:2 251:3 284:14 court 13:19 22:7 59:9 87:17 140:11 207:12 210:4,14 384:5,7 Courts 222:20 cover 120:6 218:3 305:14 covered 37:15 40:12 207:9 covering 37:18 crack 34:5,8 346:2 crappy 179:7 create 46:12 created 80:10 371:21 creates 80:13 166:10 creating 30:11 166:4 creative 113:15 creativity 56:15 credibility 179:11 criteria 293:22 294:12 297:21 308:1

critical 279:9 282:16 crowded 339:4 cued 269:9 curious 47:17 77:9,20 current 151:4 249:10,16 250:5 254:20 344:8 354:17 currently 266:12 355:5 customer 308:3 Cymbalsky 2:7 6:18,19 21:9,10 24:15,17,22 32:19 34:10 37:20 38:17 39:5,15 40:1,6,19 41:20 42:3 63:6,7 64:2 68:14,18,21 70:14 78:5,13 79:17 80:20 170:1 175:8 176:20 177:4 178:21 180:5,12,14,17 182:14 187:12 189:18 190:9,12,15 191:1 192:20 193:2,10 194:9,12,16,20 195:6,21 196:4,7 199:17 200:8,12,20 201:6,10,18 202:10,12,15 206:14,21 207:5,7,22 208:6,11 234:3

237:9,13 245:16 D daily 57:4 Dan 23:10 data 35:3 261:18 341:21 342:12,21 382:5 data's 252:1 256:11 date 7:14 33:11 42:6 dates 12:3 15:16 33:8,10 34:13 254:15,16 270:13,18 272:9,11,22 273:1 275:22 276:6 280:15,16 281:4 285:5 287:4 Dave 21:3 241:22 296:20 297:13,14 David 2:10 69:3 361:8 day 8:2,11 19:4,8 25:9 56:10,11 106:7 175:12 179:6,13 186:3 201:14 255:10 258:10 273:7 276:13 286:3 349:3 367:9 374:8,13 days 25:17 31:12 41:9 243:22 249:7 270:9 281:20 283:17 DC 1:12 18:20

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 14

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 19:19 20:9,11 21:2 22:3 23:1 256:17 273:16 dead 17:5,8 163:15 166:17 178:10 211:4 223:18 224:17 deadline 35:19 36:16 84:8,11 283:11,13 deadlines 35:18 deal 10:16 53:5,7 65:3 124:19 126:16 127:1 222:1 232:17 260:20 299:17 300:15 303:13 304:21 339:2 350:6 353:11 379:1 dealer's 303:11 dealing 253:16,20 deals 158:4 dealt 235:11 debatable 161:4 debate 29:14 171:1 187:1 332:18 debating 163:20 December 282:12 decent 74:1 259:20 decide 31:21 48:19 82:22 84:10 89:15 123:5 139:21 154:19 165:18 169:2 203:4 265:21 299:22 342:21 decided 39:10 42:15 121:14 125:9 133:21

decides 78:2,12 79:2 93:5 138:17 164:1 deciding 161:2 decision 11:9 45:11,13,14 48:8,15 49:2 73:17 74:7 81:7,20 118:18 135:1 153:16 decision-making 160:8 decisions 66:12 81:16,17 133:20 232:3 declare 110:8 dedicated 12:2 deem 162:7 deemed 67:7 90:21 94:3 213:19 deep 303:19 defaults 332:15 defend 108:2 148:16 342:15,21 343:3,5 Defense 20:20 241:14 define 102:12 104:14 231:4 defined 36:4 66:16 71:21 93:3,16 defines 77:14 102:8 245:9,10 defining 8:3 definitely 19:8 23:8 103:17 127:18 148:13,18

185:11 266:3 293:2 definition 89:9 331:16 360:11 364:12 369:14 370:13 definitional 104:12 definitions 103:2 245:11 332:1 365:1,2 degree 138:4 187:8 189:7 delegate 21:13 276:11 277:3 280:9 delete 161:16 178:11,18 334:9 deleting 227:20 deliberate 66:15 deliberations 34:21 83:7,9 delicate 354:2 delighted 292:14 deliver 5:19 251:18,20 delivered 6:4 demerit 63:4 demerits 41:22 250:2,3 demonstrate 357:2 Dennis 2:10 19:17 76:1,4,16,18 77:3 88:19 104:5,21 106:6 107:11 115:2 123:7 158:22 165:15 172:14,18,20

190:19 191:2 192:22 194:1,11 195:10,12,15 198:6,15 207:10,15 208:9,13,17 209:1 210:5,8,19,21 211:13,16,20 212:1 226:14 227:5 239:5,10 denominated 120:19 denominator 176:2 department 1:3,9 10:22 11:16 20:17 22:1 25:7 41:1 65:1 129:21 135:20 175:9 178:4,5 241:7,8 departure 180:2 depended 47:4 depending 91:6 171:21 323:4 depends 271:6 302:18 322:15 deposition 383:3,5,8,12 depreciation 336:5 described 170:9 deserves 362:15 design 247:10 designate 67:17 75:7 designated 3:14 6:6 17:13,14 desks 29:22

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 15

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 destroy 179:10 detail 34:15 36:7 245:3 detailed 31:17 details 33:12 determination 181:13 determinations 308:4 determine 36:10 144:21 300:22 357:2 determined 248:12 determining 365:7 develop 47:17 75:5 243:18 245:2 247:18 290:17 developed 73:9 262:6 Development 20:17 241:9 246:10 devise 289:2 DFO 6:6 21:12 DHW 293:6,10 dialog 162:20 172:3,6 dialogue 9:22 29:12 57:8 58:2,6,10 62:18 Dickens 2:8 19:20 44:16 69:18 70:3 77:8,19 78:21 96:4 116:17 139:4 158:6,13,16 184:14 203:7,11 204:5,9,14,17 205:1,4,8,16,18, 20 206:2,5,11 221:3,10,14 225:22 226:3,6,11 227:14,16,22 228:4 239:19,20 254:17,19,22 257:22 258:9,16,19,21 262:12 280:2,11,19,22 281:6,8,22 324:2 353:19 354:6 362:9 380:2,5,9,13 difference 46:18 47:21 221:1 345:4 differences 96:15,16 different 16:1 17:1 27:4 30:4 36:5 39:20 45:4 49:20 50:19,20 74:12 94:14 95:8,20 96:7,14 99:1,17 102:13 115:5 116:22 117:5 118:15 142:21 165:18 178:6,8 180:6 187:13 216:9 229:4 238:1,2 244:11 248:2 250:20 252:10,11 253:8 261:8 270:7 294:4 298:4,5 299:6 306:1 309:9 310:16 317:5,13 318:19 322:21 324:4 331:22 332:1 339:9 362:10 364:6 370:7

372:2 differently 116:19 153:17 289:20 299:12 315:21 317:13 differs 243:17 difficult 90:13 116:9 186:18 290:11 352:13 354:10 difficulty 115:3 296:22 358:7 diligence 87:1 91:5 directed 8:22 direction 163:16 164:10 383:8 directly 67:6 379:21 Director 239:20 240:7 242:12 disabled 11:11 disagree 62:10 88:9 118:3 152:21 176:14 177:21 184:20 193:16disagree-and-willblock 184:22 disagreed 100:3 disagreement 140:17 disagrees 185:3 193:7,19 disapprove 139:9 disburse 243:8 disclose 70:9 disclosure 70:12 discomfort 160:22 161:6 199:2 disconnect 49:22 discontinue 84:5,6 discrepancy 98:3 discretion 327:5 discuss 7:7 9:6 31:3 36:8 39:18 43:3 47:11 52:9,18 62:20 63:1 77:17 79:22 140:22 155:5 206:7 244:12 253:8 302:15,21 303:2 330:21 331:21 332:7 343:17 365:17 discussable 52:19 discussed 6:3 7:20 152:7 164:13 165:10 245:2 248:8 262:11 296:1 349:12 discussing 60:13 266:18 361:13 discussion 25:16 39:7,9,14,21 62:11 63:10 73:4 90:6 117:11 128:18 136:10 141:1 142:4 152:10 187:1 189:6 222:13 251:9 257:14 259:19 300:21 304:2,22 305:10 310:11,19 329:13 343:9 345:1 347:13 349:8 352:1,11,15 354:14 358:20

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 16

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 359:5,7,10 373:18 374:8 discussions 32:16 46:9 113:5 143:5 231:10 331:11,16 354:21 381:10 discussion's 166:14 disincentive 174:16,19 175:5 disingenuity 187:8 dismissible 195:20 disproportionate 239:14 dispute 10:13,19 disrespect

202:17 disruptions 14:4 dissent 87:16,21 91:2 93:5 100:5 113:6 118:14 130:21 138:2 141:8 152:10 159:17 160:3 161:2,3 162:6 163:17 164:5,20 166:2 172:15,21 173:1,7,21 180:3 181:16 182:5 183:12 184:12 191:13 192:7,16 193:1 194:7 207:12,19 208:7 214:20 dissented 105:5,15 151:5 170:8 173:20 188:21 dissenter 146:8 169:11 175:17 179:1 dissenters 120:13,14 166:1 184:11,15 212:3 dissenting 118:16 119:7 120:17 138:3 151:2,15,19 155:15 156:11 158:8 162:5 164:2,6,7,11 167:9,10 168:15 169:21 171:7 173:3 179:14 183:8,9 188:15 191:16 197:1 212:3 214:13 215:17 218:2 dissention 188:15 dissents 164:2 dissimilar 185:15 dissolution 67:10 distance 187:5 distinction 119:19 328:18 330:1 distinctions 251:14 distributing 266:18 district 86:19 383:21 ditch 222:17 diverse 185:21 diversity 128:18 diving 111:5 document

101:22 102:4 120:17 137:9 168:13 175:20 183:7 196:10 221:12 259:14 260:15 documents 270:15

DOE 9:11 21:11,15,19 22:13 23:11 25:20 27:13,18 28:1,7 29:20 30:10 31:1 32:11 37:1,8,16 41:7 63:7 66:17 67:3,9 70:9 78:5 81:10 84:10 85:6,17,22 87:9 88:5 94:14,17 95:5,6,16,19 96:2,10 102:18 106:21 108:22 129:1 133:1 135:17 137:13 138:16 139:4,6,13 143:13 147:21 151:8 154:4 179:20 180:7 187:2 188:4,11 190:1,4 211:18 213:15 222:7,8 224:13 225:1 226:16 235:13 246:6 250:22 262:6 266:19 273:4 282:13,17 305:2 321:4 343:2 347:22 349:11 360:20 368:20 369:1,15 375:1 379:18 DOE's 180:9 199:17 210:8 211:5,16 215:22 230:18 243:11,16 246:4 247:17 267:3,6 269:1 316:21 379:11 dollars 203:3

Don 2:15 24:11 377:18 done 11:2 12:21 13:14 26:15 28:15 33:6,22 34:7,11 41:17 61:13 75:1 96:12 144:3 152:5 162:14 171:3,21 187:19 195:4 229:9 234:7 248:16 250:11,19 253:22 281:17 283:16 300:17,18 329:6 338:3 341:12 342:5,6 350:7 381:14 donuts 8:12,15,16 147:7,9 doom 46:5 door 11:13 114:8 288:2 doors 8:14 9:3 double 54:11 68:21 289:22 296:11 301:9 302:1 double-section 329:5 doublewide 302:4,7 doubt 138:8 doubts 47:18 download 346:15,18 draft 64:17 233:18 259:12 268:20

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 17

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 dragged 161:22 Drake 2:12 20:1 112:19 117:22 118:1 174:14 188:13,20 240:3 274:21 275:4,7 draw 166:6 244:13 251:5 drawn 189:15 330:1 dress 24:17 137:3 drill 123:16 358:22 drive 174:17 222:5 245:7 359:1 drives 188:15,18 drop 123:10 124:18 125:17 146:15 182:8 184:7 dropped 126:3 324:9 dropping 292:4 Dubliner 24:11 132:16 ducts 293:14 306:2 307:15 due 33:10 87:1 88:14 90:10 91:5 98:18 137:9 161:10 335:13 duly 383:5 Dunkin 8:12,15 147:7,8 duplicate 313:18 duplicitous 182:18 durability 299:2,6 334:4,10,12,21,2 2 338:7

during 42:11 53:18 54:6 65:15 66:14 72:15 74:3 95:22 107:13 119:12 136:18,20 139:1 192:5,17 duty 10:22 dynamic 52:11 E e.g 73:19 earlier 15:15 25:9 37:6 102:11 104:18 142:8 144:11 159:2 176:15 182:1 183:4,13 186:20 226:21 237:9,15,20 245:16,17 255:22 258:10 259:12 273:22 291:13 293:8 346:6 361:9 374:1 early 10:21 27:10 134:19 252:3 349:1 351:22 easier 124:20 191:9 202:13 210:22 261:7 285:13 301:14 306:14 328:18,22 easiest 208:20 easily 195:20 253:11 350:11 East 20:1 176:4 240:3 easy 54:22 150:13 163:1,2 236:9,11 338:18 350:8 363:5 eat 14:17 138:10 eball 223:5 echo 158:6 174:14 echoing 325:7 economic 85:4 248:16 294:1 economical 134:2 economically 364:2 economist 81:12 Economy 20:8 240:14 Ed 21:22 Edison 23:1 education 299:21 300:5,6 336:22 337:19 Edward 2:17 effect 86:20 89:3,7 94:12 101:9,11 181:18 296:2 effective 111:20 179:20 246:19,20 247:4 286:7 371:2 effectively 98:9 189:16 212:21 222:20 effectiveness 247:5 268:2 294:17 324:19 361:20 362:3 369:9,10,15 370:8,13,21 effects 324:14

efficiency 7:8 66:11 231:5 240:4 246:6 248:5,10,12 268:2 336:1 367:5 369:6 efficient 20:8 134:2 240:14 248:14 258:22 261:21 363:11,17 effort 28:16,20 29:8 33:2 72:3,8 84:12 103:17 128:9 148:17 192:1 eggs 180:15 eight 27:16 303:5 eight-zone 343:1 Eileen 2:3 9:20 10:3 12:18 25:2 28:10 58:19 74:12 147:20 178:2 197:10 233:11 242:20 Eileen's 18:6 49:14 256:17 Einstein 47:3 either 6:5 7:13 13:9 23:13 24:10 31:3 37:16 46:5 56:22 101:17 118:16 144:20 163:4 172:12 178:10 187:22 188:3 211:5 elaborate 39:17 72:19 301:20 Electric 19:18

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 18

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 23:1 239:6,11 Electrical

237:16 electricity 239:13 electronic 72:6 73:13 147:17 148:4 172:16 177:10 207:13 219:18 239:7 249:17 259:5 308:17 330:11 element 160:22 312:14,15 349:5 378:17 elemental 219:3 elements 292:22 342:16 346:21 349:7 elephant 127:6 elevator 18:19,20 elevators 8:14 Eleven 336:15 eliminate 14:4 eliminated 225:3 eliminating 148:10 Elkhart 20:15 241:2 Elmo 16:17,20,22 17:2,3,9 223:6,7,8 225:13 else 44:11 64:12 93:6 101:20 145:15 163:5 169:12,13 180:1 183:11,20 190:5 204:16 252:18 285:18 304:15 312:1 315:9 323:16 339:5 350:8 355:19 359:17 366:21

else's 29:16 135:10 288:21 email 8:7 65:13,22 302:11 342:3 377:12 emailed 151:1 168:8 emailing 377:10,12 Emanuel 2:9 242:11 253:1 291:14 295:8 329:2 emergency

8:17 25:13 EMH 296:21 Emily 2:8 22:7 64:8 73:16 emit 321:5 emotional 53:4 emotions 53:4 employed 383:10,14 employee 383:13 employees 3:20 4:4 5:4,5 employment 135:11 enable 123:1 encompasses 265:3 encourage 245:5 379:20 endorsed 190:4 energy 1:3,9 7:8 20:8,11 22:2 65:1 66:11 145:21 237:21

238:1 240:4,14,17,19 242:14 246:6 247:15 248:5,11,12,13,1 4 249:8,11,19 250:5,19,21 251:1,2,17 253:5,18,19 260:2,3 266:9,11 268:1 269:6 270:3 290:2 291:17 298:1,3,7 304:8 308:11 322:11 324:6 336:22 337:1,4 362:4,11 363:10,17 364:1 365:3 367:5,10 369:6 371:15 EnergyPlus 251:17 Energy's 135:20 enforcement 26:18 38:8,13,16 39:3 42:19 43:1,4 245:12,19,20 300:12 329:22 enforcers 9:21 enforcing 18:9 engage 379:21 engineer 360:21 361:1 engineering 85:4 engineers 251:9 enhance 75:11 ensure 73:8 135:7 entering 125:19 entire 76:8 93:10 116:11 172:22 176:16

entirely 129:4 entities 178:8 entity 376:10 entrance 9:8 enumerate 193:15 envelope 293:4,15 306:2 307:8 environmental 248:19 253:16,17 298:2,9,12 319:18 320:1 321:1 324:13,14 362:2 366:10 envisioned 375:2 envisioning 60:11 epiphany 152:6 Epperson 2:14 20:3 240:6 274:10,17,20 283:19 284:2,14 299:20 300:5 337:6,14,17,22 338:8,11,13 377:21 378:5,10,12,15 EP's 290:1 equal 207:22 247:14 equipment

27:2,5 293:6,9,10,12,15 307:12,13 309:4 315:4,6 333:16 338:6,10 363:20 364:9 equipped 129:11 equity 14:12 erect 327:12

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 19

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 ERI 319:6,7 Eric 2:12 20:10 108:17 110:14,15 114:7 120:20,21 129:6 144:10 167:21 169:6 183:1 240:16 267:15,16 319:2 346:3,4 Eric's 126:2 127:14 128:6 escape 54:22 especially 230:19 essentially 55:18 56:19 90:21 217:9 265:12 324:14 establish 246:6 267:7 established 25:22 176:15,17 345:7 establishing 43:10,16 et 269:12 270:4 297:21 etcetera 134:3 ethics 3:9,14,15,18,21 4:6 5:3,10 6:1,3 evaluate 270:1 evaluating 170:11 evaluations 253:3 Evan 237:18 event 27:21 67:20 100:15 175:13 events 299:1,6 eventual 122:18 everybody 6:16 8:7,21 12:11 25:15 28:12 29:13 44:6,17 59:19 63:14 67:1 109:21 110:9 112:2 121:3 122:11 127:8 128:6 133:17 145:5,15 148:13 150:16 151:1 169:12,13 230:4,11 238:17 242:18 246:14 266:10,20 269:10 276:12 278:5 289:3 348:3,7 367:2 369:18 everybody's 5:17 29:18 61:14 231:8 329:17 348:11 358:17 380:22 everyone 14:20 28:3,16,20 29:7,15,18 30:15 32:21 33:7,17 34:18 35:6 37:21 45:10 46:13 50:2,9,22 52:11,17 53:7 55:19 58:3 62:4,19 63:16 65:9 69:13 71:1 81:5 94:21 104:11 105:3 116:7 123:19 133:20,22 188:6 195:3 202:5,8 224:2,14,16 229:15 254:16 255:17 286:4 288:20 289:1 362:15

everyone's 14:20 17:9 29:2 30:16 45:14 48:6 59:4 191:6 224:10 232:19 233:13 351:9 372:18 everything 9:1 34:19,22 90:12 106:11 109:2 110:11 115:15 134:6 152:16 157:3 163:17 169:16 186:2 226:15 239:2 280:5 307:2 337:10 339:4 350:8 355:19 359:17 361:2 366:21 everything's 30:9 224:19 evidenced 74:1 evolving 186:10 ewall 223:5 exact 35:20 exactly 57:5 62:11 63:8 104:17 142:18 149:8 186:19 209:16 261:22 268:6 304:17,18 311:5 329:1 346:11 examine 252:10 example 35:21 39:8 93:4 97:12 103:6 127:5 145:12 163:19 168:8 169:10 170:16 193:18 260:9 291:16 294:6,11 306:7 308:11 344:6

345:19 347:16 Excellent 64:5 328:13 except 72:16 86:15 176:4 233:16,19 242:5 319:20 329:6 exceptions 72:17 excited 168:3 Exclamation 118:11 Executive 242:11 exercising 127:5 exhibit 133:17 exist 375:9 exit 11:9 exits 212:15 expect 29:7,13 30:19 32:7 88:8 128:7 130:20 131:7 142:9 202:7 expectation 32:22 128:14 expectations 188:8 expected 28:19 73:7 249:11 378:1 expecting 253:2 expects 101:20 103:12 experience 10:8 26:13 185:21 expert 79:8 265:9 expertise 81:1 342:19

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 20

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 experts 260:21 explain 51:20,22 54:20 55:2 85:3 162:22 216:9 250:7 304:7 explained 288:11,14 explaining 105:15 explanation 81:9 162:16 304:5 320:2 explicit 102:10 364:16 exposure 238:14 express 224:2 expressed 27:12 expressing 130:2 expression 223:4 323:8 extend 36:16 43:3 84:10 242:18 245:19 283:17 extension 7:14 extent 85:20 86:19 87:12 94:11 98:3 101:9 117:2 162:7 268:8 externalities 298:2,10,20 319:18 320:1 321:2 324:13 externality

298:13 extra 35:13 134:7,10 144:5 255:9 extraordinary 90:19 Ezzo 2:4 20:5 38:15,21 39:2 95:3,12 131:16 240:11 266:13 267:8,11 295:14,19,22 296:7 317:4,6,9,12,17 F FACA 42:17 82:13 83:17 135:15 face 71:5 facetious 186:6 facilitate 35:13 facilitation 12:18 facilitations 12:21 13:14 facilitator 13:3 86:16 100:21 135:6,8,13 218:16 224:1 242:22 354:4 facilitators 8:9 9:20 10:5 14:19 15:2 17:5 34:3,6 36:6 49:10 136:7 183:20 256:14,22 facilities 43:19 fact 13:19 26:9 27:9 28:6 30:14 47:2 56:14 57:12 125:6 153:5,17 154:5 157:8,15,19 158:2 208:2 267:22 292:5 factor 160:1 301:1 factors 359:2 factory 242:13 247:10 300:17 327:9,14 329:4,11,15

factory-built 242:15 299:17 failsafe 283:20 284:21 fair 128:8 260:12 fairly 12:22 64:20 123:5 136:8 faith 72:3,8 89:20 118:12 121:6 123:19,22 124:11 125:4,5,6,20 128:7 130:10 142:18 145:3 153:3 154:15 159:9 161:8 174:8,22 175:19 179:5 182:19 184:1,4 187:18 189:2 203:13 204:19 205:9 211:11 225:7 231:3,14 fall 330:5 familiar 16:14 45:19 83:11 239:1 262:10 266:10 354:16 fans 340:7,10,14 fantastic 128:11 fashion 212:18 fast 75:2 86:13 263:12 381:1 faster 222:14 favor 113:22 193:4 fear 146:10 feasible 301:2 364:3 federal 3:21 4:2,4

5:5 6:7 9:11 10:11 26:8 34:12,14 82:15 89:5 90:3 97:5,16 106:3 135:18,22 207:21 373:6 376:9 feds 30:1 feedback 38:3 feel 9:6 17:8 28:11 59:8 66:18 75:22 85:12 114:1 119:6 123:3,4 151:9 183:19 187:5 195:6,18 207:16 213:14 223:1 276:10 286:20,21 feel-good 222:22 feeling 32:2 53:9 feelings 30:10 feels 27:19 79:21 124:14 183:14 232:9 feet 24:19 fellow 349:13 felt 122:16 184:5 FEMALE 71:17 137:16 218:14 225:14,16 234:5,9,12 236:1 237:4 250:1 259:9 264:3 271:15 272:1 274:12 275:1 277:22 279:1,5 284:7 286:8,12,15,22 307:18 310:6

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 21

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 312:11 314:11,20 316:8 317:11 319:13 324:21 325:2,18 334:16,21 335:15,19 338:12 345:21 348:12,17 356:8 376:14 fenestration 241:3 fenestrations 304:10 Ferrari 267:3 field 12:16 237:21 328:19 fifth 293:16 fight 157:5 figure 14:10 40:9 48:1,17 163:9 261:21 file 73:2 86:17 100:22 103:12 114:18 123:16 126:8 151:15 152:1 184:8 210:13 212:4 filed 281:3 fill 33:4 122:15 final 41:8,10 60:8,16 61:18 74:7 83:5 86:5 87:16 94:14 96:2 98:5,11,13 101:19 102:4 103:22 104:3 110:10,11 113:6,8 122:2 146:9,10 156:1 161:2,20 167:10,11,12,15, 20 168:16 169:19 171:6,10,18,19 185:2 189:8,9,14 195:20 202:8 213:13,19 215:2,16 216:22 219:8,13 221:2,5,6,7,8,11 224:15 225:9 244:20 268:21 269:1 376:21 finally 30:16 31:14 222:16 financial 293:22 294:3,12 308:1 310:9,11,17 financially 383:14 financing 260:10,13 290:1 294:4 309:13 310:11 336:6 370:10 findings 78:15 fine 29:6 34:6 61:15 101:8 143:2 163:15 171:20 180:17 182:16 191:6,8,12 192:9 203:1 208:21 217:2 226:12 228:1 266:6 324:20 334:7 finger 48:19,20 fingers 48:13,15,16 57:18 finish 36:21 43:2 135:14 finished 27:6,9 65:9 200:13 375:5

finishing 28:2 fire 8:17 210:15 firm 17:13 first 3:3 6:16,22 8:4 10:21 12:17 13:7 23:21 34:13 35:10 45:11,17 47:5 48:5,22 51:8 55:15 63:9 65:12 74:10 76:3 88:17 91:8 93:1 106:4 109:13 121:2 134:22 150:17 151:5 155:12 230:16 232:3 248:3 258:1 264:14 265:15 287:15 292:9 295:8 305:18 307:17 350:17 353:12 354:10,11 358:1 fit 15:9 203:17 205:14 206:5 210:2 225:11 227:21 324:16 360:13 fits 26:9 five 17:22 31:9 41:14 47:6 48:13 56:19 131:9 145:10 243:7 264:9,15 265:1 296:16 flesh 331:13 350:20 flew 11:7 flight 10:22 256:21 flights 255:8,9 flight's 256:18 flip 114:5,7 146:7

flipside 374:2 floated 63:9 floating 216:10 floor 8:12,13 56:6 58:15 72:15 230:3 floors 18:21 19:1 flow 30:22 34:2 37:11 flowing 30:8 fluffy 89:21 124:16 flying 16:4 focus 50:6,7,9,13,22 54:3 112:15 245:15 290:13 300:11,12 focusing 287:21 folks 12:6 14:11 15:4 22:10 23:14,20 24:9 38:19 56:9,19 62:9 64:8 69:14 73:12 100:17 110:1 111:20 127:17 130:2 132:9 147:22 167:4 171:20 185:10 198:3 225:5 257:3 260:21 276:19 285:13 288:5 303:16 350:6 362:2 377:3 food 14:17 force 138:4 144:7 212:14

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 22

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 forced 122:9 forces 164:4 foregoing 383:3,5 foregoing/ attached 384:8 forever 67:11 forget 15:10 form 27:17 29:4 31:7 37:8 42:22 47:16 77:16,20 84:19 143:8 268:20 362:13 forma 376:18 formal 57:9 60:14 61:12 66:17 138:3 375:8 formality 91:12 formally 380:18 formed 27:2 75:4 78:8 79:15 forming 300:7 forms 10:19 44:15 formulate 41:8 formulation 376:21 Forrestal 1:11 forth 81:14 87:18 177:19,22 287:22 288:6 342:18 345:6 forum 29:11 142:16 210:4 forward 8:1 11:21 27:20 29:14,19 35:6 44:20 81:17 117:10 129:20 131:13 133:2 146:20 171:4 184:4 187:2 190:1 255:13 344:22 366:18 381:2,8,9 foundation 354:22 fourth 293:13 frame 231:4 270:9 358:19 359:17 371:16 372:4 framework

165:21 354:15 frankly 124:2 360:4 free 9:6 124:3 203:16 205:13 210:1 225:10,20 Freeman 65:14 Freimuth 22:18,19 frequently 300:19 Friday 25:16 251:21 260:15 379:13 380:2,3,6 friendly 206:6 front 118:16 127:7 145:2 344:7 350:12 fruit 350:10 353:12 368:5 frustrating 222:9 full 25:20 26:2 31:2,20 32:4,5,15 35:1 40:21 70:11 79:15 82:2 171:1 362:18 374:8 fully 32:7 47:9 50:17 function 17:15,21 18:3,4 43:13 functional 306:1

functioning 75:11 fundamental 331:10 fundamentally 128:17 funding 286:7 furnaces 330:16 333:22 future 15:16 137:7 272:9,10 G Gaddis 237:19 game 304:12 GAO 379:21 gas 321:5 gather 257:7 262:1 gauge 49:8 gauging 48:12 209:5 GC 39:15 375:12 gearbox 138:5 gee 267:14 general 3:12 21:20 23:11 26:11 60:8 70:18 87:3 88:5 90:18 96:10 98:22 106:21 112:1 122:14 139:20 210:8,10 211:13,16 228:17 230:18 251:19 312:22 333:5 347:22 359:7 372:16,18 375:11,18,19 generally 41:15 80:20 87:4 111:12 163:15 176:1 generate 58:1,7,9 generated 202:2 generic 214:4 gentleman 340:20 gets 44:21 113:21 119:7 125:8 138:1 174:4 300:22 307:22 308:1,2 340:6 getting 5:18 11:5 19:5 22:15 35:15 39:1 46:17 51:2 55:16 112:2 113:1 126:5,11 159:3 178:16 198:1 208:18 265:14 266:4 280:4 288:17 290:11 293:6 325:7 329:16 338:1 347:21 349:2 358:8 363:11 given 62:12 69:19 107:20 137:9 166:12 199:5 235:20 236:3 245:3 260:12 357:20 375:7 383:9 gives 129:16 163:17 166:6 174:18 179:2 251:1 252:19 344:19 350:19 364:11 giving 127:5 159:21 160:8,14 161:3 164:10 165:22 166:1

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 23

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 174:10,15 184:10,15 191:22 glad 34:8 274:18 glazing 293:14 307:15 312:14,15,17,21 gloom 46:5 goal 66:8 197:11 363:9 367:2 goals 35:19 134:4 289:6 357:6,8 God 54:7,12 gold 44:21 gone 134:9 216:14 233:11 275:9,11 277:5 284:4 Goodness 44:21 goods 249:14 Gordon 2:7 3:11 GoToMeeting 279:14,17,18,20 286:1,6 gotten 157:17 311:3 governing 66:7 government 3:20 4:4 5:4 9:18 116:1 379:13 grabbed 292:3 gradations 162:3 grading 335:11 grain 10:16 gray 107:22 great 6:17 26:12 36:7 58:5 61:6 86:14 222:19 230:16 237:13 238:21 242:16,17 260:20,21 262:13 286:14 297:10 303:13 346:14 347:9,10 351:13 363:2 greatly 129:8 231:8 green 38:2 Greenhouse 321:5 grid 238:4 ground 8:2,12 35:17 37:19 43:10,16,17 49:13,17 58:20,21 59:5,9 64:13,17,21,22 66:6 87:4,9 92:19 96:17 122:22 131:8 132:18 154:10 233:16 234:1,6 235:20 236:4 381:15 grounds 88:14 group 1:4 3:4,16,20 4:1,9,18 7:2,6,11,14 8:1,5,19 9:6 18:13 22:9 25:3 27:2,10,11,19 28:9,17,18 31:4,7,15 32:7 33:19,22 34:3 36:4,14 37:4 39:4,6,10,11 42:10,11,13,22 43:1,3 55:6 58:4 65:5 66:10,13 67:3,6,8,9,10,16, 18,19,21 68:2 71:10,11,12,21

72:2,4,12,16,18, 20 73:1,3,6,8,9,11,1 8 74:6,14 75:7,10,16,19 76:7,13 77:22 78:14,17 79:18,20,21 80:2,3,11 81:7,11,16,18 82:4 84:3,5,17 86:14 88:7,8,9 93:4 95:5,8 96:13,22 97:2,8,14 99:9 102:17 107:3 109:8 111:15,16,17 119:11 123:2 132:19,20 135:9,19 136:6,8,14,21 137:7 145:14 155:3 156:6,7,12 160:13 163:6 164:1,15 167:7 175:16 176:3 179:16 180:20 182:21 184:2,22 185:21 189:21 194:13 196:15 197:3 200:17 202:3 203:4,12 204:18 205:2,7,8 211:10 212:8 214:6 225:6 230:13 231:4,16 232:5 235:7 243:10,18 244:1,12 245:4,15,17,19,2 2 247:18 248:9 252:2 253:7 257:14 259:18 261:11 262:9

272:3 274:22 275:3 292:8 302:11 303:15 305:7,10 306:5 331:13 336:19 341:15 344:4 356:11 359:16 363:3 371:20 372:15 381:9 382:7 grouping 308:14 336:4 groupings 341:10 groups 12:1 26:17 27:7,17 33:14 34:1 35:16 48:11 65:2,18,19 83:19 92:16 207:1 306:10 312:8 363:18 group's 66:15 72:7 Groups 182:15 Group's 176:11 180:10 244:9 guess 16:12 18:15 23:16,21 42:9 62:9 78:12 94:16 108:11 109:18 132:13 137:12 138:18 155:6 169:7 175:9 189:19 198:6 199:17 206:11 208:9 221:13 222:11 234:6 264:12 279:17 300:20 330:20 350:22 358:6 370:17 guidelines 46:11 47:12 107:15

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 24

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 guts 37:4 guy 115:7 176:7,18 326:10 guys 143:14 327:17 338:17 341:17 350:1 354:7 375:7 H Hagerm an 2:4 3:2 6:15 21:14 23:16 94:19 95:9 150:12,16 151:7,11,13,18 152:8,11,14,22 153:2,21 154:3 167:6,16,18,22 168:4,7,19 228:10,14,16,21 229:2,7,12 230:4,8,13,16 237:2,7 238:10,13,22 242:17 243:4 246:22 250:7,11,15,18 253:4,11 254:1,9,14 259:22 261:5 262:18,21 263:4,6,8,11,14, 19,22 264:5,11,19 265:3,5,8,16,20 266:1,3 269:3,18,21 276:10 277:17,20 278:2,4 283:15,20 284:9 305:4,6 318:9,12,15,18,2 1 319:2,4,7 320:14 343:21 344:3,9 345:17 347:11 360:19,20 361:19 367:21 368:2 369:17 370:9 371:16,20 372:6,13 375:10,14 377:5,7,14,17 378:3 379:4 380:20,22 hair 52:22 half 25:10 134:12 236:15 246:16 306:4 hall 9:2 hallway 347:17 hammer 361:1 hand 16:6 101:2 111:3 190:20 352:21 368:7 handed 372:21 handicap 297:6 Hanger 373:11 happen 39:5 54:5 115:11 160:5 185:6 193:3 194:2 359:3 happened 95:10 105:21 194:9 happens 51:10 52:3 54:6 90:8 98:5 179:3 happy 37:15 48:6 59:19,21 61:15,22 103:1 252:14 268:18 hard 53:1 102:3 110:5 114:4 122:1 180:18 185:19 195:21

231:3,10 232:6 274:16 339:2 348:9 369:15 381:1 harder 350:13,14 hardest 115:8 350:7 harm 140:6,8 harmless 66:19 harness 14:12 hashed 5:21 hassle 9:16 hate 120:8 152:15 276:21 haven't 34:6 41:16 92:5 96:11 131:17 134:9 156:10 157:7 158:18 375:20 having 30:13 31:7 46:9 100:4 102:11 128:18 129:19 159:4,8 166:5 168:3 174:2 184:16,17 199:14 214:7 218:1,4 222:8,13 255:9 264:16 345:7 377:12 381:9 head 6:19 56:12,17 124:2 212:15 259:21 342:8 headed 129:13 heading 282:20 headline 290:7,19 headlines 290:6 heads 261:14 362:16 hear 6:16 13:22 16:11 23:17,22 24:15 29:18 30:2 40:13 60:2 75:21 94:21,22 98:19 113:10 114:12 129:1 150:17 172:13 197:7 204:13,15 264:2 286:13 305:18 320:14,19 325:8 333:11 heard 5:17 10:12 14:20 18:18 45:10,14 58:3 62:4 99:16 102:16 119:15 129:12,14 136:1 147:3 155:5 156:12,16 192:3 196:17 215:15 224:22 287:9 340:9 346:1 366:22 hearing 8:4 125:21 130:9,11 208:15 215:14 225:3 232:15 280:4 367:2 hearings 267:18 hearts 231:13 heat 270:2 heater 251:5 322:8 heaters 270:2 heating 293:11 333:15 heavily 248:8 held 82:1

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 25

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 he'll 6:5 Hello 323:7 help 13:2,17 14:6 35:13 36:17 39:16 47:17 78:9 95:16 119:18 244:9 252:7 287:11 289:1 290:17 292:5 296:5 329:4 350:20,21 352:1 helpful 11:3 96:2 98:2 238:19 262:5 305:21 306:6 310:20 345:1 372:3 helping 22:7 65:14 329:5 helps 131:18 268:12 hereby 383:3 384:4 385:4 here's 30:22 37:11 79:17 90:2 95:4 105:5 132:10 159:19 192:4 hereto 383:14 HERS 318:22 319:5 321:10 322:21 323:22 324:7 he's 6:6 25:12 97:9 115:7 176:22 207:20 hesitation 305:1 hey 52:6,13 54:1 107:16 114:10 115:6 126:12 182:19 Hi 22:18 23:2 241:15 243:1,2,3 379:7 hide 24:19 high 128:14 163:18 169:9 199:1 293:11 357:15 higher 265:13 high-level 353:1,9 highlighted 220:13 225:4 228:12 230:22 232:16,20 235:4 highlighting 227:9 highway 73:13 118:19 hijacks 176:11 hired 56:13,16 hit 92:5 140:11,12 303:11 hits 296:4 Hoffman 2:3 10:3,4 14:16 16:16,21 17:19 18:11,22 19:13 22:6 24:3,6,13,20 34:9 42:1 43:9,14 44:10 57:15,20 62:1 63:22 64:16,22 66:2 68:6,9,12,17,19 69:1,6,9 70:2,4,13,16,22 71:15,19 73:15 74:13,17,21 76:2,9 77:1,5 78:3,11,19 79:1,10 80:12,16 81:2 82:11,21 83:6,12 84:2

85:15 86:7,10,14 87:2,8,13 88:2,18 91:8,18,21 92:4,9,13,22 93:11,21 94:5,20 95:11 96:19 98:19 99:13 101:3 102:6 108:15,19 109:15 110:14 112:7,17,20 113:10 114:9,12 116:16 119:15 120:10,20 122:21 124:22 127:16,19 128:2 130:8,15,18 131:14 132:7 133:7 134:17,21 137:1,6,17 138:9,13 140:4,8,15,18,20 141:11,16,19,22 143:9 144:8 146:3,18 147:2,8,15,19,20 148:7,11 149:2,9,11,17,20 150:1,3,8,15 151:6,10,12,17,2 0 152:3 155:4,10 156:14 157:1 158:5,12,15,21 161:13 164:18 165:1,5 167:14,17,20 168:2,5 171:14 172:19 177:6,12 178:2,3,20 183:22 187:20 188:1,19 189:3 194:15 195:5,9,11,13,17 196:3,6,12

197:13,19 198:14 203:5 204:22 205:17,19,21 206:1,3 209:7,10,13 212:9 213:8 215:5,9,12,14,21 216:2,5,15,19 218:11,16,18,20, 22 219:5,8,11,13,22 220:3,6,9,14,16, 20 221:8,12,18 223:7,14,16 229:16 230:6 234:14,20 235:1,20 236:3,7,10,16,19 238:8,12 239:3,9 242:20,22 243:2 249:20 254:15,18,21 256:8,16 257:12,15,18 259:2 262:8,20 263:2,5,7,10,13, 17,21 264:2,6 267:14 269:20 270:21 271:3,9,11,14,17 ,19 272:2,5,8,10,15, 19,22 273:17,20 274:1,4,7,15,18 275:3,6,11,17,20 276:4,14 277:8,13,19 278:8,11,13,17,2 1 279:4,8,12,15,18 ,21 280:14,21 281:4,7,9,16,21 282:2,7,11

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 26

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 283:2,5,14,21 284:4,11,15,17,1 9 285:2,4,12,16,20 286:19 287:2,4,8 288:19 289:10 290:21 291:5,8,10 292:16 294:21 295:4,8,11,18 296:8,10,13,15 297:4,22 298:5,9,14,17,20 ,22 299:5,8,19 300:3,6 301:4 302:12,17,20 305:2,5,18 308:9,19,22 311:3 314:15,18 316:22 317:18 318:17 319:14,16 320:6,9,18,21 325:8,14 326:5,12 327:3 330:6,9,13,15,20 331:4 333:10 334:10,19,22 335:6,18,21 336:1,6,8,15,17, 20 338:2 339:5,13,17 340:2,4,9,18 341:18,20 343:19 344:12 345:9 346:3,8,14 347:10 348:22 349:4 360:1,6,9 362:22 365:18 367:18,22 368:4,8,13 372:5,9 373:10,20 374:7 376:3,22 377:3,6,8,10,16, 18 378:6,9,11,13,22 379:6,19,22 380:3,7,11,15,17 ,21 381:13 382:3 hold 15:21 113:17 126:7 190:19 192:10,11 195:11 207:20 210:14 234:3 275:21 holding 17:14 207:17 holdup 207:19 holes 123:16 124:17 holiday 274:3 275:8 283:9,22 284:6,17 holiday's 284:8 home 4:13 5:10 44:9 239:21 240:9,21 245:6,8 309:6 317:10 324:6 326:2 328:21 329:9 331:19,20 346:12 374:17 378:16,20 homelessness 362:18 homeowners 19:21 242:5 330:17 334:1 homeownership 362:18 homes 7:9 20:5 21:2 95:3 97:7 240:1,21 242:15 251:12 294:11 297:1 327:13,14 329:3,6,16

363:4,6 homework

28:22 342:2 honest 15:11 34:1 228:16 honestly 40:3 41:12 hook 122:8 hope 25:1 27:14 28:9 31:14 33:1 69:9 71:3 194:1 212:4,12 231:12 252:18 327:17 hopefully 8:20 11:6 14:3,5,11 31:10 33:4,7 47:8 100:13 103:6 224:6 290:15 348:8 375:22 hoping 117:14 133:3 155:3 166:13,14 202:1 366:6 horse 17:6,8 163:15 166:17 178:10 194:14 211:5 223:12,18 224:17 hospital 113:21 hot 270:1 307:12 hotter 289:18 hour 47:3 134:12 236:15 hourly 106:7 143:11 hours 36:9 133:12 199:4,15 276:8 house 248:6 251:2,4 293:19 340:12 363:16,17 houses 303:7 housing 1:4 3:4,5 7:20 20:17,22 21:6,7 23:3,7,8 25:5 26:5,7 41:13 66:9,12 83:16 84:18 231:18 238:16 239:14,16 240:8,9 241:4,8,11,19,21 242:3 246:7,10,12 247:6,11 249:10,12 254:11 269:8 289:19 290:2 295:16,17 299:11,13 342:17 347:15 361:6,22 362:1,11,12,13,1 6 363:10 364:7,16 367:6,13,15 370:7 371:4 373:6,7,13 376:10 377:20 379:15 380:7 how'd 200:5 hows 288:17 HUD 23:7 266:10,11 267:2 293:3 303:12,22 304:1 317:9 342:22 344:8,21 345:3 352:6 354:17 356:17 357:21 363:3,4,6 374:16,22

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 27

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 375:20 376:8,20 HUD's 23:3 241:11 247:12 379:14 380:7 huge 131:20 293:5 hundreds 170:19 176:1 HVAC 65:20 170:17 293:6,10 307:12 338:6 341:7 hypothetical 105:4 308:12 I IACC 7:17,20 IBTS 348:17 I'd 37:15 39:15 40:1 60:2 62:7 66:4 70:8 158:6 163:15,16 183:5 184:7 203:8 204:12,15 211:2 225:12 252:5 263:4 280:5 291:10 313:6 314:1 350:5 369:5 376:4 ID 9:18 idea 5:18 15:9 17:6,22 18:10 42:18 45:3 54:2 59:19 63:8 112:1 129:19 169:7 183:4 195:1 201:20 202:16 212:13 224:5 255:18,22 305:5 312:3 350:19 353:7,10 ideally 106:10 290:4 ideas 14:5 29:14 31:3 35:9 36:7 48:2 113:15 147:22 identified 42:12 258:4 289:17 379:15 381:16 identify 5:6 255:20 256:10 257:7 258:7,10 270:15 287:11,15 301:15 349:21 identifying 287:18,19 304:19 342:8 IECC 244:2 246:14,19,20 247:5 249:9,12 251:14,16 264:9 267:18 268:4 289:18 293:3 299:15 342:15 343:1 344:8,14,21 345:3 346:6,9,10,16,22 361:6,16 363:4,6 369:8 370:2,4 372:22 IECC's 247:12 II 2:5 I'll 10:2 16:11 25:6,10 34:8 37:12 51:17 55:15 56:12 61:5 64:19 70:20 72:16 76:16 109:15 113:18,19 115:2 126:8 134:8 163:2 175:9 182:20

192:10,13 230:3 232:20 244:6,7 250:15 257:13 268:14 273:8 274:10,11 288:4,5,8 291:18 292:5 296:11 297:7 325:10 341:8 346:12,17 347:3 374:1 382:4 illogical 175:21 illustration 368:18 illustrative 368:10 I'm 3:18 7:4 10:3 12:13,16 16:19 17:2,3,13 18:17,19 19:19 20:6 21:9,10,14,19,20 ,22 22:4,13,20 23:2,5,6,10 24:18 25:19 33:22 39:16 42:3 44:2 49:4,8 50:8 51:11,18 52:5 53:15 55:1,15,16 57:1 59:21 60:10 61:10,13,14 64:13 69:19,22 70:21 75:1 77:9,20 81:8,14 83:10,15 86:8 89:9 90:11 91:3 95:3 97:12 100:21 101:17 102:19 104:22 106:6,13 107:12 109:6 111:19 112:21 113:1,17 114:6 115:13,22 116:1,8 117:9 119:4 120:12 121:22

122:13,14 124:3 125:21 126:12 127:4,7,10 129:15 130:9,11,14,19 132:11,14 137:13 140:13 143:2,4,11 146:5 147:1 152:9 155:1 156:12 158:1,2 161:1 164:6,9 171:17,18,19 176:20 177:14 180:19 181:4,21 182:1,19 184:9,19 186:6,19,20 187:21 188:2,3 190:8,15,19 191:2 192:10,11,15 193:11,21 194:8,13 195:2,15 198:1,15 202:1 203:2 205:1,2,4 207:17 208:15 211:11,21 212:11 213:2,17 214:3,20 215:1,14 216:2,5,8,12,20 217:6,7,19 218:8 219:16 220:1,4,7 221:21 224:22 225:2 226:12 227:15 228:17 232:14,15,17 233:21 238:14 239:20 240:13,16 241:1 242:20 243:4,5,8,15,20

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 28

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 249:22 257:2 258:21 260:6 267:16 271:18 272:12 273:13 274:18 275:9 277:4 278:4 280:14 282:12 284:4 291:13 292:1,3,14 293:17 295:18 297:9,13 300:11 301:13 308:11,21 309:6,22 315:2,6 318:14 319:22 323:11 325:6 326:22 328:1,15 329:8,21 331:14 338:4 340:13 341:9 342:19 343:21 344:7 346:4 349:6 352:3,21 359:12 360:21 361:1 366:15 374:15,18 379:4,7 Image 315:20 imagine 36:3 207:18 impact 85:9 247:5 248:16,20 267:21 268:1 269:8 290:1 294:8 300:1 321:4 356:2 362:6 363:14 369:10 371:3 impacting 294:10 impacts 254:10 255:6 289:21 301:8 362:2 366:9,10 implementation 39:13 40:17 300:13 336:13 implemented 39:19,21 300:22 301:3 implicit 364:16,17 import 98:1 importance 356:14 357:18 important

8:11 12:9,11 13:7 26:4 40:4 49:16,18 50:3,11 75:3 127:20 128:17 131:17 134:22 135:2 173:7 292:22 317:16 327:7 331:12,21 337:2 340:17 372:11 381:10 importantly 45:12 224:12 373:4 impressed 341:9 impressive 66:1 improve 266:22 335:12 363:13 367:5 inappropriate 173:5 inaudible 71:13 76:18 88:13 132:18 149:15 156:14 157:20 165:6 173:19 177:9 181:3,4 183:2 190:22 195:7,8,14,16 206:4,11 216:16 218:7 219:21 221:6 222:2

225:17 226:4,5 227:12,18 229:19 230:15 234:9,10,14,20,2 2 236:2 240:18 243:22 249:3 250:13 252:19 256:8 257:9 259:8,13 264:5 267:8,9 270:19 271:16 272:18 273:14 274:14,16 275:2,19 276:9,16,22 277:1,5,12 278:1,20 279:1 280:11,13,22 281:1,3 283:11,19 286:13,16 287:1,6 291:17 294:20 296:16,17 297:7 298:16,19 300:10 303:6 308:4,15,16 309:12 312:17,18 313:3 315:7 316:5,9 317:1 319:17,20 321:6,7,10,11 322:18 323:10 324:6,7,22 325:3,5,6,12 326:1,2,3,4,18,2 0 327:6,8,11,12,15 ,22 328:4 329:4 330:10 333:6 336:1,9,12,13 340:11,22 341:4,6 344:14,16 345:15 347:5

348:13,19 353:21 356:1,6,9 362:7 364:21 365:7 368:4,5 371:13,15,18 372:12 373:2 376:15 377:14,17,22 378:8 380:5,10 in-between 28:21 incentive 129:17 163:17 166:1,6 172:15,20 173:21 174:4 183:11 191:3 192:16 194:7 incentives 166:5 include 84:22 150:21 155:14 164:12 165:8,19 167:8 169:15,17,20 171:7 253:2 293:22 300:13 331:6,18,19 346:20 347:12,13 362:14 included 97:21 198:8,11 220:11 includes 84:22 98:16,17 260:2 325:20 330:22 347:1 371:5 including 11:7 60:8 68:18 70:10 81:11 293:18 income 362:1,14 364:15 inconsistent 210:3 212:18

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 29

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 incorporated 324:15,16 increase 14:4 354:10 361:11 increasingly 187:6 incumbent

29:18 incurred 378:20 Independence 1:10 independent 178:8 Indiana 20:15 241:2 indicate 101:21 indicated 141:7 individual 4:19 48:2 72:19 142:9,16 145:11 156:3 157:6 168:18 189:12 248:17 individually 293:1 individuals 11:11 67:3 75:10 77:9,21 232:6 indoor 253:20 254:3,10 260:16 290:1 293:19 306:7 307:22 325:13,16,18 334:3,5 339:6,22 341:8 379:10 380:14 industrial 27:7 65:20 Industries 20:13 industry 7:3 9:5 21:7 128:19 134:2 231:7,17 238:16 241:4 242:5 252:13 253:15 303:7 350:21 infiltration 304:11 345:5 356:22 inform 324:5 informal 142:2 157:15 information 4:10 13:18 14:9 29:21 30:7 32:3 34:18 75:5 105:10,21 107:21 157:18,21 173:8 181:7,9 182:10 187:2 191:15,17 192:4,18 252:7 256:12 257:4,7 258:11 260:19 268:21 269:4 287:11,19 304:20 342:10 343:15,22 346:5 349:21 informational 89:5 140:3 information's 96:2 256:11 258:8,14 inhibit 115:18 initial 76:12 142:13 244:22 245:1 305:16 initially 98:8 350:3,14 injunction 125:16 input 44:17 84:1 348:11 376:20 inside 42:16 inspection 21:4 242:1 inspire 174:9

Installation 329:10 instance 71:20 179:10 instead 73:19 101:20 110:1 151:18 199:13 244:22 255:8 357:7 Institute 21:6 23:1 242:3 institution 5:10 institutions 4:14,16 insulation 270:2 335:11,13 336:2 insult 57:14 intellectual 163:8 intend 144:14,15 intended 299:16 318:3 323:17 intending 158:4 intent 51:20,22 124:11 131:11 307:16 318:13 370:3 intention 101:22 144:12 interact 300:2 interaction 297:15,19 373:7 interest 5:7,9 25:3 27:12 33:17 46:13,18,20 47:1 50:6,9,22 66:21 67:4,5 70:11 72:9 73:8 75:12,17 186:10,13

201:22 231:8 287:6,21 288:22 289:1 353:21 381:8 interested 5:15 23:9 25:8 70:21 83:20 224:6 257:21 346:17 360:15 383:15 385:7 interesting 128:22 129:6 136:19 331:2 363:19 interests 4:22 46:19 47:11 50:19 60:1 66:20 71:8,9 73:6 122:16 288:20 interjecting 353:7 International 239:6,11 240:18 264:9 Internet 41:19 Interoperability 238:5 interpret 340:7 371:10 interpretation 45:4 49:21 220:8,11 interpreting 342:20 interrelated 293:20 introduce 8:9 9:19 18:12 21:17 22:10 237:10 238:18 374:11 introduced 23:14

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 30

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 introductions 18:15,17 19:3 237:11 invitation 255:1 invite 184:12 invited 77:10,22 79:8 inviting 77:13 119:1 involved 12:9 22:15 81:6 110:16,17 113:17 157:13 238:4 involving 10:14 11:10,15,16 ISA 7:10 Ishbel 2:8 19:20 45:9 69:17 76:3 77:7 116:16 121:4 133:9 158:5 184:13 199:22 203:6 220:6,16 239:19 255:2 324:2 353:19 Ishbel's 128:10 217:3,20 isn't 15:14 93:3 112:9 123:5,17 144:22 175:2 198:1 230:6 301:2 329:22 363:7 issue 6:1 9:6 43:17 46:17,19,22 50:18 75:21 76:5 78:16 79:19 82:7 93:6 98:1,7 101:16 112:9 113:9 120:5,8 126:19 129:7 148:15 154:6 156:3,5 179:8 185:12 186:13 190:5 197:4 215:11 217:5,16 220:20 223:11 224:20 254:5 260:16 290:14,22 293:2,5 294:16 299:19 307:6,13,21 329:22 332:16 338:9 339:9 350:7,17,18 351:9 352:4,12,18 353:1,9 357:21 364:21 368:20 369:16 374:5 issued 7:5 9:18 issues 5:11 8:4 19:5 26:1,3 27:18 29:13 46:19 47:10 52:9,19 53:1 60:12 75:5 79:14,22 81:3,4 101:6 111:17 126:15 128:20 135:17 136:11 138:2 156:8 159:7 162:8 164:13 165:10 225:2 231:3 254:6 255:21 256:7 257:7 258:4 259:15 261:9,10 287:11,16,18 289:11,17 291:13 292:7,20 293:6,20 294:1,14 297:2

304:19 308:2 335:8 350:13,15 352:7,11 354:2 355:12 358:1,14,16,17 365:13 372:19 379:16 381:17 issuing 86:5 it'd 238:19 262:12 295:16 370:4 item 42:4 168:18 169:1 193:15 365:17 items 131:10 142:16 191:4 291:15 296:19 311:1 312:16 324:17 350:10 351:1 it'll 193:14 it's 5:21 8:8,12 9:13 10:8,9 13:1,5 19:1 22:8 29:17 33:21 37:6 38:8,17,22 39:19,21 40:4 41:14 51:17 52:7 53:13 54:5,17 55:13,18 57:10 58:7,9 61:15,16 62:2 65:2 66:10 76:5,17,22 77:5 78:21 80:5,21 83:1 85:8 89:11,18 91:5 92:15 95:14 99:11,20,21 104:20 105:16 106:1,8 110:2,5,6,8 112:10 114:2 116:3 117:6 118:15,16,17

120:9,11,18 122:1 124:4,5,16 128:16 129:4,5 130:1 131:2,20 133:13,18 135:2 139:16 140:2,16 142:1 144:4 147:19 149:7 153:2,3 154:13 155:6 159:20 160:9,20 161:6,11 163:1,2,10 165:5 166:16 167:12,14,20 171:19 173:6,18 175:20 176:1 179:19,20 180:9,18,22 181:19 182:3 183:10 184:11 185:18 187:10,16 190:21 191:10,12 192:21 194:9 195:21 198:10 199:1,3,5 200:12,14,22 201:20 202:17 203:1 206:13 207:10,15 210:14,21 211:7 212:18 214:11 217:16 218:6 219:3 221:1,22 223:12 224:20 226:19 230:15 237:4 243:10,12 244:3 246:2 247:20 253:4 256:9 258:20 260:22 262:19 263:7 265:12

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 31

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 268:4,6 273:6 274:15 275:5 276:14 277:14 279:18 280:6 283:12,20,22 284:18 287:8 290:11 296:3 301:14 302:18 304:1 305:7 308:12 310:1 313:20 315:8 321:4,5,17 323:10 324:5,17 326:14,17 327:7 328:6,21 329:18 331:12,21 334:14,18 336:4,5,13 337:2,22 338:9,18 339:2,10 341:12 346:22 347:7,19 352:13 355:11,12 356:17 357:4 358:13 359:7 361:12,15,16 362:3,6,9 363:19,20 364:1,4,17 365:7,11 369:5,7,15 370:20 372:1 374:5,7 375:4 378:15 381:4,5 I've 12:21 25:13 33:13 48:11 90:16 110:16,17 111:10 156:16 163:19 173:20 192:3 203:8 214:18,21,22 280:12 286:17 288:4 311:3 340:9 366:22 376:6 J

Jame s 2:17 23:2 Janet 22:18 Javier 2:3 9:20 10:5 12:14,15 63:15 Jeremiah 65:14 job 33:6 34:3 183:21 202:13 368:22 Joe 6:4,12 21:14 35:4 38:6 43:9 150:10 155:13 230:3 236:17 253:1 301:5 360:19 372:21 374:22 380:18 382:5 John 2:7,14 6:6,13,18,19,20 21:9,13 24:15 25:10,20 31:11,22 32:18 62:7 63:7 70:16 78:4,5 82:12 83:13 170:1 175:8 177:8 183:7 187:7 189:6 195:18 200:2 207:20 209:19 237:7,8,10 238:13,14,22 241:14 242:18,19 245:16 253:14 338:4 369:6 join 71:9 262:6 joined 237:7 joining 3:3

joking 278:4 Joseph 2:4 Joseph.Hagerman @ee.doe.gov

8:8 July 26:17 jumping 262:16 354:9 jumps 255:17 jumpstart 244:9 June 7:18 junk 152:19 jurisdictions 296:4 justification 294:17 312:5 352:8 justified 364:2 369:9 justify 85:3 K Kavita 2:11 88:4 96:9 99:13 106:20 122:21 132:13 138:21 150:9 151:8 153:7 156:4 177:13 209:18 215:17 268:16 375:17 Kavita's 88:3 375:10 kazman 267:5 Keith 2:10 19:17 73:5 76:3 88:18 115:7 161:15 174:20 188:5 215:5 239:4,5,10 Keith's 130:8

Kentucky

20:1,2,4 176:5 240:4 Kevin 237:17 key 201:21 347:3 369:21 379:16 kick 224:17 kicking 52:21 kinds 259:15 294:2 322:21 328:20 333:19 knew 116:20 122:11 165:3 knowledge 276:16 known 31:15 78:10 255:7 Knox 385:4,13 Knoxville 20:6 L Lab 249:8 253:6 260:1 labeling 298:1,3,7 308:11 321:10,20,21 322:11,16,19,21, 22 323:15,16,21 324:1,5 Labor 273:7 laboratory

250:5 Lacey 2:12 20:10 110:15 120:21 143:10 163:14 164:19 165:3,7,12 169:6 183:3 184:1 240:16 267:16 312:17,20,22 313:4

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 32

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 319:2,3,6,9 346:4,9,15,22 347:7 lack 253:19 ladder 48:4 49:6 53:11 218:10 lady 136:5 laid 79:6 land 242:9 landmass 239:13 language 57:21 59:1 85:8 124:10 143:3 159:10,12 161:17 186:16 188:22 189:1 194:3,6 203:8 213:3,18,22 216:13,21 217:3,20 218:2 219:16 222:18 225:4 227:9 232:16,20 235:5 251:11 laptop 237:5 large 42:14 larger 7:15 99:5 228:17 314:18 larges 4:16 last 32:11 33:21 47:6 52:20 64:16 123:8,11 124:18 146:4 156:20 166:7 182:9 207:1 209:21 217:22 219:2,5 223:17 233:3 247:3 256:9 293:21 379:10 380:1,2,3,6 late 7:18 256:18 272:4 later 30:2 35:4 99:11 116:13 129:9 159:6,22 192:8,17 196:20 197:1,4 211:9 216:21 222:5 224:8 256:19,21 278:2 296:12 307:20 312:4,6 353:13 359:1,3 latest 158:8 235:12 256:21 latter 275:4 Laughter 186:4 194:19 200:11 203:22 210:20 218:13 223:20 228:6 233:20 234:16 236:13 246:21 264:1 266:15 267:10 273:12 277:21 298:21 311:6 338:16 345:11 348:14 354:3 law 3:13 15:5 98:15 139:10 144:7 247:22 368:15,21 369:21 370:18,22 373:6,7 lawsuit 100:22 115:18 118:21 119:20 123:11,14,16 125:7,8,13 126:7,8 175:11 177:19 210:13 211:12 212:4 lawsuits 30:20 lawyer 108:1 lay 31:16

lays 365:4 lead 178:13 leading 352:15 leaf 227:16 leakage 327:15 335:13 356:21 learn 22:16 30:15 329:2 lease 242:9 least 11:2 40:17 41:10 43:5 55:15 56:21 83:22 124:21 145:17 161:1 176:1 184:2 223:22 224:4,9,19 261:14 262:17 284:13 305:16 319:19 342:8 350:2,14 351:20 355:10 372:17,18 leave 3:9 38:3 82:12 102:1 185:7 213:18 257:13 302:14,16 leaves 218:4 leaving 140:6 led 138:7 leeway 163:3 191:14 legal 60:22 85:4,21 99:18 121:20 123:17 132:11,20,21 133:4 161:4 legalistically 124:14

legally 124:17 132:12,16 144:18 175:1,2 Legislative 178:4 legitimate 288:22 lenders 242:8 lens 358:13 360:22 362:19 less 28:12 29:10 54:2 100:16 102:19 142:17 lesser 247:15 let's 3:2,10 15:22 17:4 18:14 26:15 36:20 38:10 40:6 43:12,22 48:1 55:7 56:17 59:6 60:17 61:17,18,19 62:17 63:1 64:7 79:18 85:14 97:12 121:15 146:21 153:10 163:20 166:19 167:4 171:8,10 172:13 189:20 193:13 202:3,6 209:2 227:7 228:7 229:8 230:1 232:13,15 261:19,20,21 271:4 276:4 278:17,22 281:9 283:5,17 299:3 305:18 309:11 317:13 330:3 341:19 350:9,10,12 359:21 letter 144:2

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 33

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 letters 149:12 letting 230:17 347:22 level 5:22 48:7,12 100:10 199:1 209:5 218:3 291:17,19 340:17 levels 7:20 26:21 27:9 28:5 38:8,12 100:9 231:11 252:10 253:8 265:11 leverage 32:3 Levy 2:9 51:4 242:11 253:1,10,13 291:12,14 292:14,17 293:10 294:5 295:10 306:22 307:5,8,19 308:8 323:6,8,13 328:8,14,17 334:2,11,14 335:4 339:8,12,21 340:3 352:22 353:6,17 358:15 359:12 365:6,10 371:7,13,22 lieu 204:3 life 47:4 241:16 331:20 lifecycle 247:7 248:15 253:3,12 332:10 338:1 369:11 370:21 371:4,10,11 377:19 378:18 light 38:2 152:6 153:15 likely 46:7 159:16 248:7 296:3 limited 33:14 157:21 limiting 227:17 295:2 limits 152:10 Linda 385:4,13 line 92:11 99:3 105:6 113:2 155:13 197:16 328:2 329:7 lines 91:14 127:12 Lionel 103:10 108:16 Lipper 138:15 Lippert 20:14 39:12 63:3 79:4 93:2 118:10 152:2 176:13 179:9 200:1 218:21 241:1 250:4 286:5 301:7 303:3 312:15 349:6 358:12 list 185:3 270:10 291:12 293:21 298:16,19 316:22 339:8 355:3 364:4 listen 280:13 listened 184:3,17 listening 70:1 132:9 269:22 litigation 98:17 224:7 little 9:4 10:6 12:1 14:9 16:2 18:6 19:7 22:16 25:1 29:3 33:12 35:4

36:13 37:22 39:1 44:3 48:21 49:4,5 51:19 57:18 58:22 61:5 64:7 90:6,13 99:1,5,16 101:21 110:19 116:19 117:5,9,10,13,21 118:12 120:22 122:9 124:7 126:17,18 127:2 130:21 134:19 144:11 150:13 153:2 163:3 183:18 184:1,9 188:15 197:9 206:13 207:7 216:5 218:6 232:2,7 243:13,20 247:22 255:13,18,21 265:13 268:10 270:16 271:6 287:5 290:13,16,19 292:2 310:1 312:4 314:16 326:6 328:6 338:5 346:5 349:1 356:15 362:10 363:16 live 11:4 15:4 45:12 48:7,15 49:1 92:1,4 133:14 154:4 156:15 157:9 158:4 162:2 223:12 239:22 lived 381:20 lives 280:12 living 330:16 333:22

loading 168:6 loan 332:15 located 21:8 22:3 location 19:16 82:3 locked 283:18 287:13 logistics 9:10 Lois 2:5 21:5 40:11 63:18 96:19 130:18 137:21 138:7,12,13 146:22 148:7 213:8 242:2 319:19,20,21 354:13 Lois's 141:6 long 25:4 54:3 61:13 103:17 168:11 170:15 172:2 222:15 245:9 longer 272:6 long-term

373:14 374:5 378:17 loop 141:4 loopholes 160:10 lose 129:15 186:12 lot 15:8 28:15,16 30:1 32:3 36:5 40:7,8 42:4 46:22 47:15 89:1 106:17 110:17 126:21 132:1 134:4 148:13 149:21,22 162:17 163:21,22

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 34

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 166:11 169:18 181:2 184:12 185:14 198:2 202:13 226:15,22 231:9 234:6 237:21 238:3 251:3 253:15 259:12,19 264:19 287:21 296:3 303:11 326:7 329:2 331:15 363:15 366:7 378:4 381:14,18,19 lots 63:14 354:20 loud 330:16 333:22 Louder 177:12 Louise 148:7 Louisville 20:4 love 40:1 71:4 222:15 low 163:18 169:9 362:1,13 364:14 Lowell 2:13 20:7 60:5 101:3,5 108:18,19 110:16 111:7 114:6,15 155:21 188:2 189:4 219:15 240:13 351:16 Lowell's 112:22 353:1 368:6 lower 355:3,6 lowest 100:10 low-hanging 350:10 353:11 368:5 low-income 240:9 Lubliner 2:9 59:15 269:19,21 293:7 298:1 320:5,16 321:3,9,17,21 322:18 323:1,7,10,21 324:2,4,11,20 325:1,4,12,20 326:1,17 327:2,4,22 328:5,11,13 329:1 330:8 331:9,15 332:5,12,15,19,2 2 379:5,7,20 380:14,16 Luby 328:1,2 330:21 335:18 lucky 210:18 lump 303:1 307:16 lunch 9:10 92:14 134:13,15,20 138:6,12,13 140:22 142:4 146:21,22 147:13,15,21 163:19 Luter 2:5 20:14 39:12,17 40:4 62:6 63:2,3 79:4 93:2 118:10 119:6 138:15 139:15 140:2,10,13,16,1 9 152:2,4,9,12,21 153:1,4,10,14 154:11,16 176:13 177:2 179:9 180:11,13,16 200:1,10,16 201:2,7,12 202:9,11,14

206:19 218:17,19,21 219:1,6,9,12 241:1 249:15,19,22 250:3,10,13,17 264:7,12 265:2,4,6,9,17,2 1 266:2,6 267:17 277:10 279:13,16 282:5 286:5,14,17 301:7,12,16,19 302:1,4,8,15 303:3,7 309:6 312:14,19 326:8,11 340:5,10,13,16,1 9 341:3 342:11 343:7,11,14,18 344:2,14 346:20 347:5,9 349:5,10 358:11 M ma'am 274:20 mailing 382:4 main 9:21 78:14 80:2 82:10 174:2 maintain 67:13 121:20 122:19 357:4 maintaining 367:6,12 maintains 251:1 maintenance 331:1,7,20 332:4 378:19 379:1 major 92:6 135:1 290:22 294:16 307:10 335:8 majority 33:18

44:14 55:22 56:3,7 58:16,18 60:6,7,19 61:20 63:17 73:19 74:16 90:1 129:20 158:14 184:18 makings 22:2 26:13,14 62:8 96:12 MALE 82:19 86:6 130:12 148:6 193:9 197:18 205:22 208:21 209:2 210:17 213:4 221:7,16,19 227:12 228:2 229:18 234:18,21 236:14 238:20 259:8 271:21 272:17 273:10,13,18,21 274:2,9,13 275:14,18 276:2,21 277:4,6,11 281:2,11,13 282:1,9 283:1,3,10,12 284:5,12,22 285:10 291:6 294:20 295:1 296:9 298:15,18 301:22 302:6 303:6 309:10,17 310:14 312:13 313:2 314:3,7,13,22 315:2,4,5,8,10,1 5,18,22 316:4,6,10,13,17

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 35

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 ,20 318:4 319:12,15 320:4 321:13,15,19 322:1,3,5,7,9,14 323:18,20 324:10 325:10,16 326:15,19 327:19 328:3 334:18 340:11,15 341:4,6 345:12,14,15 348:15 355:7 358:3 364:22 366:20 371:18 372:10 373:1 376:12 378:7 man 52:12 manage 13:17 237:22 240:4 Manager 21:10 managers 238:1 mandates 35:1 mandatory 11:15 mangle 135:10 Manny 20:12 44:10 68:4,5 93:1 94:9,10 108:17 112:7,8 119:16,17 141:11,12 144:8,9 146:6 168:14 240:20 266:8 269:11 300:11 304:3 318:7 357:18 362:21,22 366:22 Manny's 114:20 305:22 Manual 329:10

Manuel 2:6 214:9 285:17 328:8 manufacture 366:9 manufactured 1:4 3:4,5 7:9,19 19:21 20:21 21:1,6,7 23:3,6,8 25:5 26:5,7 41:13 66:9,12 83:16 84:18 231:18 238:15 239:14,16,21 240:1,9,21 241:4,10,11,18,2 1 242:3 246:7,11 247:6,11 248:6 249:10,12 251:12 254:11 269:8 289:19 290:2 299:11,12 342:17 347:15 361:6,22 362:12,16 363:10 364:7 367:6 370:7 371:4 373:6,13 374:17 376:10 377:20 379:15 380:7 manufacturer 357:1 manufacturers 21:1 27:4 237:16 242:8 303:9 362:6 map 254:6 256:4 289:8,14 290:20 382:4 mapping 261:8 maps 289:9 339:3 Marchetti 2:8 23:15,19 64:11 73:14 230:12,15 320:7,10,12 Mark 2:4,6 20:5,21 37:17 38:21 41:21 70:7,8 79:12 82:6 83:13 86:21 93:5 94:7,22 95:3 97:6,9,15,22 99:17 101:7 102:20 103:15 124:22 131:16 133:7 142:7,20 158:21 161:14 178:9 186:15 189:3 203:18,20 212:10 213:10 230:8 240:11 241:18 262:3 294:13 295:9,13,14 297:13 317:6 329:21 332:6 352:2 359:12 374:16 376:3 Mark's 80:12 101:16 marriage 329:7 Martin 2:17 23:2 mass 279:9 match 94:17 material 12:4 37:14 40:9 153:22 262:5,10 271:7 materially 210:3 materials 10:1 85:10 258:1,5 261:9 266:4 268:9 346:17

381:3 math 56:16,21 matter 13:19 28:6 47:2 56:14 57:12 61:13 87:1 90:8 98:18 201:16 292:5 matters 201:18 Matthew 2:16 22:4 max 19:1 maximize 349:8 maximum 85:19 364:1 may 4:9 10:12 11:22 15:18,19 17:5,6 22:15 27:18 29:16 39:20 45:11,17 52:4 55:6 66:22 67:17,18,21 71:9 72:5,18,21 73:1 74:4 75:4,7,16 77:18 81:4,5 84:6 102:2,3 105:15 113:13 118:3 132:1 135:10 136:20 137:8 142:8 147:3 150:10 156:8 169:13,19 186:11 187:10 197:14 202:3 214:20 222:8 246:10 247:8 252:7 260:10 262:16 272:3 276:7 282:20 296:20 297:16 299:16 312:6 322:17 323:3,15

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 36

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 330:5 337:6 363:17 372:3 maybe 6:18 7:18 24:14 40:12,16 50:20 54:10,11,13 62:12 68:13 78:2 79:22 90:12 92:14 107:1 111:7,16 112:14 116:5,17 117:12,20 122:14 126:8 127:9 130:20 131:7,8,9,10 134:19 138:6 140:22 148:12 149:18 150:19 153:8 162:14 163:2 164:2,12 165:7 169:15,19 174:6 183:3,13 187:15 198:16 215:14 220:14 237:10,11 238:8,16 243:6,22 246:16 249:7 255:13 258:9 275:16 288:21 306:3 311:20 312:1 314:18 315:12 329:13 340:21 342:2 353:7 360:17 mean 36:8 49:16,18 50:1,3 53:20 59:12 87:18 88:20 89:2,12,19 91:13,14,16 93:5 103:18 104:15 105:1 106:1,3 107:21,22 108:22 110:5 111:22 112:22 115:19 116:7 117:13 118:15 124:4 127:20 131:6 132:17,22 139:13 143:20 144:3 152:11 155:22 156:20 158:22 159:4 165:7 168:7,12 177:20 178:21 179:12 180:22 181:2,16,21 185:20 186:5,6,7 187:17 190:5 193:17,18,22 198:6 199:6,19 200:5,13,22 202:15,16 207:10,17 208:13 210:5 211:4 216:3 217:10 220:20 221:3 226:6,12,20 227:18 245:8 254:19 261:7,11 263:11 264:16,22 266:16 292:20 301:20 306:6 308:8,12 310:10 315:19 316:14 317:16 319:9 321:1 323:22 330:18 333:14 337:1 340:16 341:11 353:2 355:9,10 358:11 360:19,21 365:14 367:1,8,16 369:12,22 373:15 375:10 meaning 18:3 171:20 356:19 meaningful 268:1 376:7,17,19 meaningfully 349:12 means 8:3 15:8 16:17 30:18 36:4 62:1 71:20 72:6 81:21 94:13 102:14 139:18 216:13,21 217:14 218:5 222:3 226:8 323:6 331:12 357:3 359:14 378:8 meant 319:21 322:17 323:4,15 328:7 measure 248:5,12 measures 248:14 253:3 measuring 46:2 meat 83:9 mechanism 153:4,18 mediation 288:4 Medication 10:11 meet 3:5 243:16 257:16,18,19 297:5 361:6 362:5 368:16 370:2 meeting 3:4 29:21 30:3 31:20 34:13,14 65:16 66:14 68:8 69:8 72:10 74:5,6 77:10 81:20 82:16 119:10 136:1,4 246:18 279:22 282:6,7,8 283:6 374:18 382:7 meetings 28:21 29:4,8 30:6,7,13 31:2,8 33:3,5 34:16 69:21 72:2,9 82:1,5,8,9 107:2,3 109:3 135:15,21 136:3,6,20 197:20 198:4 255:2 meets 366:18 369:3 member 31:22 64:3,9 67:9,12,18,19,20 68:2,8 69:14 72:2,10,18 73:11 75:8 77:2 87:19 96:22 119:1,8 123:2 176:17 177:3 201:3,7,8,12 members 4:1,9 33:14 60:21 67:8,16,21 69:13,15 72:7,13 73:1,7 74:4 77:13 78:17 80:19 81:19 82:4,18 83:20 88:9 114:16,17 116:14 137:8 169:1 173:22 176:1,6 177:20 178:7 185:19 186:1 187:13 190:2 203:11 204:17 205:5 214:6 222:10

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 37

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 225:5 230:12,14 231:7 252:3 377:1 membership 70:11 75:8 80:18 186:10,17 239:15 memo 61:19 memory 291:21 Mendlen 2:15 23:5,6 374:15,21 375:13,15 mentality 47:8 mention 113:11 mentioned 12:19 15:15 25:2 28:11 32:13,21 43:19 155:13 168:3 215:8 255:21 262:11 306:18 mentioning 257:2 merely 113:5 merited 291:17 message 18:4 messages 18:8 met 136:5 metrics 351:21 360:11 Metropolitan 10:14 MH 249:19 250:5 260:11 MHARR 70:8 93:6 97:11 161:14 178:9 262:4 294:14 297:13 332:6 MHI 40:11 63:18 mic 13:21 38:4 140:11,12 147:18 172:19 177:11 207:14 219:19 232:14 239:8 249:18,21 259:6,7 308:18,19,20,22 330:12 Michael 2:9 24:11 132:16 269:19,21 274:19 298:1 320:12,14,19 326:15 328:8 330:9 379:5,6 Michael's 270:5 microphone 37:22 148:5,6 172:17 309:18 374:12 microphones 22:11 mic's 330:14 middle 362:1 mid-June 7:18 Mike 293:7 298:14 320:4,6 323:18,20 328:14,15 331:9 340:20 352:13 Mike's 326:10 mile 134:7 millers 10:16 mind 22:9 29:15 129:17 130:5,7 174:21 177:7 185:4 195:14 203:2 222:9 256:4 268:22 289:8,9,14 302:8 303:4 313:8 350:16 367:2

382:4 minds 28:4 minimize 224:9 minimum 58:18 60:19 minority 60:1 102:21 108:8 120:18 134:9 184:16 minute 43:14 123:9,11 124:18 166:7 182:9 229:21 minutes 17:22 43:18 47:5,6 51:12,14 64:14 65:6 131:9 236:21 342:6 359:20 360:4 368:7 minutia 79:9 misrepresented 122:17 miss 86:8 missed 86:6,7 181:1 233:19 237:20 missing 229:16 339:8 misspoke 177:15 mistake 116:15 mix 362:1 MLATNA 46:6 mnemonics 16:9,13 model 260:11 models 250:19,21 252:15 260:2,3

moderate 189:1 362:13 364:14 modification 92:18 114:15 228:11 modifications 40:22 86:3 99:8 137:8 138:17 139:14,17 143:3 228:8 modified 99:11 155:18 251:15 modify 92:18 364:11 modular 295:16 moisture 334:4 moment 15:10,14 65:10 113:14 215:12 333:2 moments 65:10 Monday 1:5 255:3 281:8 monstrous 168:13 month 246:16 months 28:5 34:16 36:17 39:20 moot 116:2 more-contained 185:22 more-difficult 352:12 morning 3:3 10:3 16:3 21:9 22:12 23:5 65:15 168:9 176:15 178:3 237:9 258:2 283:7 381:5

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 38

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 morning's 65:16 mostly 25:22 237:22 most-unusual 222:2 motion 170:8 motions 141:17 move 14:22 17:4,7,10 24:21 29:19 102:18 117:10 118:18 121:9 142:12 146:20 147:11 189:22 224:15 227:3 235:21 255:13 319:14 338:18,20 350:15 351:5,7 353:13 356:8 381:2 moving 25:8 27:12,16,19 66:20 113:18 125:15 308:14 311:13 353:7 muddles 173:6 muddy 57:18 multi-tasking 18:7 muscled 196:18 mute 24:4 muted 23:18 mutual 288:22 myself 120:4 N NAECA 365:2 nail 361:2 narrative 143:17 narrow 306:16 Natalia 1:20 Natasha 22:6 136:5 383:2,20 national 19:18,20 237:15 239:20 240:7 242:4 248:15 249:8 253:6 260:1 275:8 364:15 365:3 nation's 361:22 nationwide 239:17 Natural 20:19 241:13 nature 168:20 185:16 260:13 Navigant 22:1,5 129:1 187:2 253:5 368:2 nearest 8:18 necessarily

4:20 29:11 36:19 45:17 50:16 56:16 58:8 154:9 161:9 163:4 166:18 170:5 181:8 182:3 261:16 287:13 341:11 343:5 necessary

31:13 53:14 77:16 79:15 85:10 86:4 91:7 111:20 124:5 138:17,18 139:17,18,21 160:21 161:5,7 166:18 224:18 neg 12:17 negative 30:20 54:11 74:1,2 86:10,15,17 88:6,10,11 89:2,16 90:9 94:15 95:14,15 103:12 106:14 107:4,19 108:13 112:10,11 114:18 115:16 116:11,13 129:10 130:4 132:4 143:12 144:20 145:1 151:15 152:1 154:9 158:17 159:6 177:18,21 180:21 181:12 182:4,11 190:3 192:2,8 193:2,12,17,22 198:13 201:13 206:20 215:4 negatively 86:18 97:7,11 276:3 318:11 negatives 131:12 negotiate 26:21,22 28:4 35:21 36:12 38:12 42:7,16 121:7 122:9 126:19 128:7 157:5 174:22 negotiated 5:16 10:7,18,19 11:10 26:14 27:3 28:11,14 45:20,22 46:7 62:7 66:9 72:4 75:15,18 81:18 90:17 96:12 116:20,21 117:13,17 133:10,12 135:16,19,20,21 143:15 144:12

154:14,22 158:3 159:4 175:10 202:19 203:12 204:18 205:6 211:10 225:6 353:21 366:17 negotiating 27:8 72:14 80:1 121:6 124:11 125:6 142:18 146:1 153:3 156:21 288:11 negotiation 31:18 34:22 76:19 94:4 121:5,11 122:3,5 135:17 146:2 157:14 174:12 223:16 negotiations 29:17 32:1 35:7 36:16 42:11 53:3,17 67:1,2,7,17 71:10 72:15 73:20 74:3 84:6,8,9,13,20 109:8 126:11,22 127:1 136:18 261:16 368:15 neither 383:10 385:6 NEMA 237:15 238:3 253:14 338:4 network 20:4 240:7,8 neutral 135:6 187:16 212:6 neutrals 13:8 newest 7:16 NextStep 240:7 299:20 337:18

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 39

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 378:18 nice 51:2 106:1,9 134:20 199:10 night 255:9 Nine 18:22 19:1 278:21 285:12 310:14 382:3 nitpicking 117:15 nobody 144:1 169:11 183:19 190:5 211:17 296:2 no-challenge 159:14 nominated 67:4 nominations 33:16 non 151:14,18 158:7 218:1 non-consensual 189:15 non-dissenter 174:3 184:11 non-dissenting 151:20,22 155:19,22 156:1,2 159:13 172:7 194:4,5 198:22 217:5 none 94:15 nonprofit 240:8 non-public 4:10 non-refundable 273:6 NOPR 143:10 173:9,13 178:1 180:9,10 181:7 182:10 190:2 191:18 192:17 193:14,16 194:20 200:19 203:17 205:14,15,16 210:2 222:14 225:10,20 226:2,3,10,12 227:13,17,20 231:17 243:8,12 244:18,19 246:3 247:20 248:1 259:14 268:20 N-O-P-R 205:17,18,22 206:1 nor 383:10,14 385:6,7 Northwest 249:7 253:6 260:1 no's 63:9 104:15 131:2,7 nose 194:11 Notary 383:1,20 note 146:18 262:22 333:21 368:11 notes 384:7 nothing 77:14 87:1 91:4 113:3 118:22 120:14 140:3 176:4 178:12,15 222:19 226:18 284:19 Nothing's 118:20 notice 12:6 34:13,15 37:9 53:11 85:11,16,19 86:2 105:1 124:4 133:16 160:12 205:19,20 244:16 246:8

noticed 255:4 notified 82:4 NRA 135:16 NRCA 176:21,22 NRCA's 177:1 NRDC 59:17 103:2 NRECA 176:5,6 185:21 186:8 187:5,11 193:4,7,17,19 222:3,9 NRECA's 185:15,17 186:12 193:6 NTA 21:3 69:3 241:22 nuances 136:9 Nut 59:2 nutshell 297:8,18 O object 59:15,18 90:22 97:1 101:15 objecting 102:14,15 objection 59:22 64:10 73:14 349:2 objective 213:1 360:11,12 361:15 366:12 objectives 27:20 360:17 364:9 objects 361:14 obligation 243:16,18 246:5

obligations 85:21 247:17 observation 79:5 118:12 obtainment 360:12 obvious 289:16 362:7 obviously 25:7 35:18 65:2 87:20 126:1 239:1 243:17 245:14 251:12 370:11 occasion 200:2 occasionally 31:12 59:4 occasions 15:18 occur 125:8 375:3,4 occurs 83:10 o'clock 25:12 141:1 147:12 345:13 382:2 October 283:8 284:11,15,16 285:4,9 380:11 odd 182:22 odds 354:10 offer 47:19 54:21 55:2 62:21,22 162:22 203:9,16 205:13 210:2 225:10,20 228:4 244:7 349:7 offering 162:4,8 office 3:14 12:16 21:15,20,21 22:14,15,19

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 40

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 23:3,6,11 25:13 26:10,11 88:5 90:19 96:10 106:21 116:2 230:18 251:19 375:11,19 379:14 officer 147:17 148:4 172:16 177:10 207:13 219:18 239:7 249:17 259:5 308:17 330:11 383:2 official 3:14 6:7 55:11 59:11 91:11 136:15 231:20 officially 78:18 officials 375:1 oftentimes 83:8 oh 8:10 9:14 23:22 32:19 52:12 54:7,12 74:13 86:7 108:19 127:18 132:10 136:19 147:19 148:7,18 149:3,10 157:16 158:21 172:19,20 194:15 195:15 200:10 205:4 219:22 221:10 230:12 235:1,10 237:2 239:9 242:20 249:20,22 258:13 259:11 267:14 269:7,18 270:18 276:14 284:4 288:12 291:3 295:11 298:20 308:19,22 313:5 315:8,22 334:8 335:6,21 346:14 365:8,12 368:8 okay 11:8 14:15,16 17:10,15 18:19 19:11 24:13,22 27:15 28:13 30:22 32:16 34:10 36:1,10 37:11 40:6 42:8 44:1 45:8 49:4,16 50:1,2,9,10,21 51:1,5,15,18,22 52:1,4,8,14,17,1 8 53:2,7,8 54:4,5,14,21 55:3,12,18 56:1,6 57:11,22 58:10,16,17,18 59:4,10 61:3,20,21 62:5 64:5,11 65:11 66:19 67:1,7 68:11 70:3,5,22 71:7,21 72:11 73:5,11,12,15,17 74:13,17,21,22 76:16,20 77:7 80:3,19 81:8,22 82:16,20 83:12 84:3,4,15 85:13,15,21 86:5,15 87:11,14 91:8 92:3 93:20 94:6 98:19 101:14 105:2 110:14,21 112:17,20 115:13 119:12 121:14 130:19 133:7 134:21 135:13

137:1,3,7,11,18, 19 140:4,15,20 144:8 146:5 147:4,10,11,15 148:11 149:17 150:1,3,8 151:12 153:7,13 154:11 156:18 158:5,21 160:2 167:4,16 171:11,13,14 172:11 177:2 178:20 180:19 181:5,6 184:13 187:21 188:3,6 190:7,11 191:14 193:4 194:15 195:11 196:3,12 203:10,21 204:7,11 207:2 213:2,9 217:4,22 218:14 219:7,12 220:9 223:12 224:10 228:2,7,8 229:6,13 230:16 232:17,18,19 233:1,5,8,10,13 234:20 235:6,9,15,19,22 236:3,6,7 237:6,13 239:3,7,18 240:2,15,22 242:7 250:17 252:4 254:8 258:18 264:2,6 265:13 266:6 267:1 271:22 272:2,6,7,8,16 276:15 279:3,4,7,8,12,2 1,22 280:2,14,15 282:3,4,11,16,18 283:2 284:20,21 285:5,20,21 286:4,14,21

288:17 290:5,20 292:16 295:19 296:13,18 297:4 298:11,20 299:7,8,19 301:3,19 302:5 307:3 309:10 310:8 311:5 314:7 317:15,20 320:10,17 322:11 324:3,8 327:20 328:11 329:20 330:5,21 332:3 334:1 335:10,22 338:2,3 341:3,5 342:1 343:11,14 344:2,9 348:20 351:9,13 352:2 356:7 357:16 360:5 363:5 365:11,12,13 366:1,4,19,20 367:17,22 368:5 372:5,9 374:7 376:3,22 377:8,16,18 378:6,9,11 379:3,6,19,22 380:15 old 316:5 OMB 41:4,9 375:5 onboard 224:15 255:17 ones 24:7 77:15 132:18 158:19 182:16 206:22 216:18 233:16 265:18 290:4,6 292:8 295:6 305:16 307:3 308:5,6 311:8

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 41

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 341:14 355:21 one's 50:5 322:3 one-third 62:9 97:14 118:2 online 279:13 348:13 onsite 300:18 327:6,10 329:7,12,14 onto 30:18 268:20 288:18 onus 225:1 open 8:14 11:13 13:12 26:3 29:15 30:14 37:12 52:16 66:14 83:1 102:1 135:21 136:2 191:21 200:9 230:3 270:17 opening 359:4 openly 66:14 opens 288:2 Opera 10:14 operate 11:13 37:22 66:7 73:18 74:15 127:20 242:14 373:15 378:16 operated 340:8 operates 162:17 operating 65:4 123:22 157:21 247:7 352:7 369:12 371:11 374:5 operation 330:22 331:7,19 332:4 opinion 6:3 106:19 118:16 119:7,10,13 154:6 248:7 opinions 29:16 130:4 opportunities 42:20 43:5 opportunity 12:11 39:2 44:17 62:20 83:22 97:10,16 120:16 224:2,9 246:8 255:20 358:18 oppose 87:20 111:16 113:19 opposed 11:18 34:5 110:2 117:15 134:7 135:16 158:17 328:19 338:7 351:19 opposes 102:4 opposition 98:10 optimistic 27:11 optimize 362:8 option 51:21 122:15 167:8 184:7 options 112:5 113:13 144:19 165:11,12 168:17,22 169:8,20 170:11,20 171:2 248:5,12 252:11 270:1,3 287:14 362:17 order 125:17 142:14 191:13 192:6 214:8 217:6,9 256:13 305:17 343:16

349:17 366:16 370:14 ordering 305:9 353:20 Orders 141:14 organization 3:19 5:1 19:10,15 67:5 68:3 69:2 73:10 76:8,14 77:4,6 89:15 90:7 93:10,19,22 94:3,7 96:15 102:3 113:4 115:21 116:11 120:5 123:4,13 124:2,15 129:9 133:6 154:18 159:16,19 172:22 173:19 176:2,16,18 177:3,16,17,20 178:5,6 181:22 185:6 186:11 222:2 276:13 organizational 71:9 77:2 organizations 60:22 75:17 185:16 286:18 organize 349:16 original 332:9 originally 50:20 155:2 188:16 254:22 others 31:1 90:13 128:4 146:9,16 170:19 182:16 212:22 293:3 359:12 otherwise 55:14 61:8 75:15 98:15 146:12,16 168:5 179:3 189:11,17 271:12 290:8 366:7 383:15 ours 137:16 ourselves 36:19 outcome 30:19 83:5 160:18 224:15 383:15 385:7 outdated 244:5 outline 305:13 outlining 85:1 outside 8:20 9:4 98:13 120:22 overall 80:16 111:14 131:22 143:16 156:8 173:10 199:9 309:12 310:4 311:21 353:3 354:15 367:5 overarching 358:17 overkill 160:20 overlap 305:21 352:6 357:21 overlaps 299:9 overly 105:16 106:8 owners 239:21 242:9 ownership 373:14 P p.m 255:12 382:6 Pacific 249:7 253:5 260:1 package 143:16

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 42

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 156:2 157:10 packages 254:3 packet 12:4 256:10 packets 64:15 page 45:7 135:6 256:10 368:19 pages 168:11,12 170:14 paid 234:15 pain 195:18 painful 10:8 12:19 28:12 palatable 126:6 Pam 22:13,20 147:3 panel 238:5 331:10 paper 170:4 paper's 153:14 paragraph 290:9 paragraphs 177:17 parcel 292:21 parent 3:15 4:20 5:2,20 6:7 7:15 parenthesis 357:13 parking 15:8 40:7 42:4 148:13 149:20,22 234:6 378:4 parte 133:17 participant 93:4,9,12 125:14 200:17 participants 66:20 286:6 349:13 participate 29:13 75:19 78:1 83:20 98:14 108:6 160:14 198:12 199:6 203:13 204:19 205:9 213:18 225:7 participated 100:4 participating 91:16 108:7 119:8 286:20 participation 32:2 72:1,12 91:1 113:5 particular 26:14 42:13 79:8 117:18 153:11 217:13 245:10 260:14 290:14 291:15 299:16 particularly 5:16 352:9 362:1 parties 49:19 53:1 67:2 73:20 74:8,16 76:19,22 83:20,21 84:20 87:16 99:7 106:22 107:4,9 112:12 132:13,16 135:7 136:16 151:15,19,20,22 164:11 188:9 203:16 205:13 210:1 224:6 225:10 287:22 383:11,14 party 21:4 67:7,17 75:7 76:4,6 77:1 79:7 86:17 89:9,10 93:3,9,12,16

94:3 103:11 109:19 114:19 115:20 121:5 151:9 155:19 162:5 176:16 189:9 203:15 204:21 205:11 209:22 211:8 214:13 220:17 221:9,10 225:8 385:6 pass 211:1 232:11 passes 104:7 past 65:17 80:6 path 317:3 318:20,22 Pathway 319:5,7 patient 101:2 118:9 patterns 251:5 pause 49:22 229:22 336:3 337:7 PDF 346:15,19 peers 231:15 pending 117:10 people 11:3,12 12:10 14:7 21:17 23:13 28:16 33:9 35:13 36:5 40:8 46:2 52:1 53:2 56:18,19,21 63:20 70:10 71:5,6 75:9 78:9 80:7,22 88:21 89:17 100:18 105:10,13 106:16 108:13,14,16 110:2 113:12 114:3,8 122:9

128:12,19 133:14,19 142:12 145:14 150:4,5 151:4,21 158:8,9 159:6 163:21,22 164:20 166:6 173:12 178:17 181:22 182:9,14 183:18 191:19,20 196:10 198:9 203:18 206:14 212:5 213:15 226:20,21 237:22 239:22 255:6 261:17 269:5 277:15 280:3 294:11 331:22 362:14 374:10 per 69:2 82:13 169:1 189:9 percent 56:1,2,6 58:15 60:19 62:3,16 71:17 100:14 102:15 104:20 110:21 111:1 117:3,19 118:2,4,11 121:13 197:12 202:1 239:12,15,16 percolate 35:9 perfect 61:4,6 103:5 perfectly 131:3 performance 265:10 313:7,9,11 317:3 318:8,20 321:11,12,22

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 43

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 323:9 329:14 356:18 357:19performancebased 357:6 perhaps 110:7 153:16 period 30:8 41:5,6,11 95:15,22 118:14 119:13 341:11 permissible 98:15 permission 317:10 permits 18:7 73:2 person 16:5 53:18 71:3 72:22 76:7 93:13,16 110:9 132:3 194:17 196:1 213:21,22 214:4 322:16 323:14 personal 4:13 248:7 personally 11:2 179:7 person's 45:11 121:16 179:11 perspective 5:3,14 27:13 85:5 131:2,3 216:1 308:3 352:14 373:4 persuade 146:9 persuasive 118:17 138:20 pertained 161:19 pertains 87:15 pertinent 297:15 Peter 298:22 311:4 330:6,13,15 335:19,20,21

P-E-T-I-T-I-V-EN-E-S 296:10 ph 168:14 267:5 304:10 328:2 phase 376:17 Philosophically 353:20 Phoenix 20:13 phone 23:13 24:7,10 29:3 63:21 64:3,8 68:8,10,13,15 69:22 274:19 280:3 320:6 photographs 136:20 photos 137:2 phrase 54:10 phrases 371:2 physically 69:22 pick 52:14 97:12 350:10 picking 53:19 picture 136:22 189:14 piece 99:16 100:12 126:17 224:21 233:3 351:3,4 pieces 98:21 131:21 157:6 pig 11:18 Pinto 267:2,3,14 pipe 270:2 pipeline 125:11 placard 221:20 placard's 128:3 plan 304:13

planning 255:15,19 plant 328:19,22 plants 328:22 play 117:7 307:9 359:6 playing 233:22 please 37:21 38:2,4 40:7 80:4 119:5 130:17 140:12 147:18 204:12 218:19 219:19 259:6 308:18 330:12 plenty 123:21 plus 56:1,2 251:1 PNNL 260:15 261:4 270:1 347:12 point 5:9 19:6 22:16 25:7,21 32:10,13 33:3,20 37:12,16 41:3 43:7 72:20 79:2 100:1 104:9 107:20 108:11 111:2 114:20 118:11 121:4,17 126:2 127:14 128:6 129:5 157:12 159:1 163:16 173:10 179:16,17,19 180:2,12 187:7 189:19 192:15 196:12 199:17,19 201:2 208:1 212:7 216:18 235:13 259:19 261:1 262:16 278:18 289:15 290:18

292:18 330:2 332:13,17 337:8 338:14 341:13,17 345:7 353:1 361:17 363:3,7,8 365:7 369:17,20 pointing 182:2 368:18 points 45:9 72:22 112:16 173:20 196:15 363:2 policy 87:6 135:17,21 178:14 364:16 polite 15:3 pompoms 48:6 Ponder 24:12 Pontillo 22:12,13 poopoo 175:19 poor 59:9 335:13 382:5 pop 64:13 pork 11:15,17,19 portion 65:16 positing 110:7 position 29:18 63:15 78:16 80:1 83:14 87:17 102:20 119:2 129:10 146:17 170:11 177:1,22 185:17 189:20 193:11 196:2 200:14 203:15 205:12 206:15 210:1,3 211:5,7,20 212:22 214:1

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 44

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 216:12 220:18 221:14 225:9,19 229:4 230:19 259:17 269:1 376:6 positions 50:6,9,22 88:11 102:21 136:17 142:13 287:14 positive 131:12 188:6,8 206:22 289:3 possibilities 288:3 possibility 127:11 possible 7:7 33:9 56:5 62:16 71:5 82:3 85:20 95:7,11 117:3,20 126:7 128:21 184:19 197:12 203:14 204:20 205:10 206:8,10 252:3 258:22 259:21 263:7,22 266:5 269:13 280:16 289:4 347:20 348:10 369:1,2 381:4 possibly 113:15 118:3 278:7 post 162:1 postulating 189:7 190:8 214:18,21 potential 5:6 159:15 254:16 374:9 potentially 98:17 125:10,14 158:17 159:22 161:3 197:9 198:21 255:5 Potts 2:11 20:16 91:10,20 92:3,7,10 93:15,20 229:17 230:6 233:19 235:6,10,16,18 241:6,7 power 20:2 176:5 240:4 378:17,22 practicable 162:10 practical 115:3 162:9 practically 143:22 practice 49:8 51:19 354:1 practices 247:14 practicing 91:20 pragmatic 125:3 preamble 85:9 86:4,19 preclude 79:6 175:12 predicated 264:8 predict 186:18 preemptively 214:7 prefer 188:16,22 216:11 preference 178:11,18 217:7 preferred 216:11 218:1 preform 35:7 prejudge 203:21 prejudice 91:6 prepare 249:8 252:8 prepared 29:7 51:21 136:7 303:16 385:5 prerequisite 199:6 prescriptive 265:11 313:8,10,13 318:8 356:18 357:19 present 29:21 42:20 73:21 74:4 78:15 81:20 305:10 344:1 presented 31:19 40:22 140:14 246:1 presenting 31:17 presents 189:21 preserve 159:17 191:7 202:20 president 113:20 press 8:14 presumably

157:4 214:1 260:12 370:3 Presume 259:3,11 presumes 138:19 presumptions 152:12 pre-suppose 86:22 113:3 125:18 pre-supposes 91:4 120:13 pre-supposing 110:20 pretty 14:7,11 26:20 27:15 34:17 53:9 59:18 104:1 108:2 118:9 202:9 224:20 235:3

260:8 263:12 307:2 341:10,12 354:16 364:12 370:16 prevail 129:8 prevent 118:20,22 Prevention 22:14,20 previous 41:18 62:7 65:19 93:15 237:18 244:4 245:4 249:5 260:3 262:5 345:7 347:18,19 previously 201:13 318:7 price 247:6 248:10,11,13 324:15 331:1,8,18 332:9 369:11 371:3,12 373:14 pricing 11:16 primarily

161:20 243:6 primary 189:17 376:8,9 prior 69:8 136:1 141:6 priorities 381:17 prioritize 256:13 292:9 302:22 349:20 350:1,2,4 prioritizing 304:20 330:4 337:11 priority 292:6,10 private 83:7

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 45

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 privilege 72:13 pro 376:18 probability 128:15,16 probably 16:5 36:2 63:9 69:19 90:10 92:6 119:9 125:2 145:13 162:9 166:11 169:9 196:19 198:18,20,22 211:1 227:5 229:3 256:2 260:12 282:2 293:5 308:16 312:10 314:4 333:3 334:5,6,12 338:21 342:2,4 353:2 354:20 378:8 problem 46:20 47:4,6,11 51:13 60:4 95:18 105:17 115:8 116:14 141:5,10 162:13 172:21 176:8 208:14 256:15,22 258:14,17 303:17 311:12 360:5,22 problematic 162:5 206:10 problems 123:10 178:16 problem-solve 256:13 262:2 359:11 problem-solving 163:7 257:5,9 procedural 120:12,14 189:11

procedure 91:1 141:13 174:11 procedures 245:12 proceed 8:21 305:12 proceeding 97:22 376:17 384:6,7,10 proceedings 98:15 136:3 376:19 process 13:11,12,13 15:19 29:9,20 30:4,15 36:11 42:17 44:16,20 51:13,14 58:13 63:8 69:5 77:9,14 78:1 88:14 90:10 91:15,17 98:18 103:6 105:11,19,20 106:10,15,17 107:13 108:9 109:5 110:18 111:2,19 113:12 114:3 117:18 118:13 120:15 121:3,13,17,22 125:19 135:8 139:2 141:8,9 142:2 143:15 148:20 157:15 159:5,8 160:8,21 161:10,21 162:1 166:16 172:4 173:16 174:12 181:10 182:6,8,13 188:18 190:21 191:10,11,21 192:5,11 197:8 198:7 199:11,19

210:12 213:12 214:6 217:11,12 224:4 231:21 239:1 243:9,13 244:14,16,21 264:21 268:13 289:6 299:14,16,18 326:1 327:16 329:5,17 354:8 363:20 processes 105:4 108:6 116:8 264:14 265:14 process-wise 199:10 produce 94:14 producers 241:21 product 42:14 60:8 120:16 132:1 142:15 188:11 238:2 productive 8:2 84:7 105:22 124:6 144:4 223:2 productivity 108:10 products 238:2 241:3 program 6:20 21:10,20 26:12 27:1 139:20 237:22 241:11 242:15 290:2 379:15 380:8 programs 23:4,7 39:8 240:5 progress 31:13 prohibited 99:7 132:4

prohibitions 113:9 promise 67:11 promises 348:8 proper 376:20 properly 14:2 342:20 properties 293:14 proposal 41:5 61:1 95:19 119:19 129:21 130:8 137:22 155:5 158:8 165:2 182:15 187:22 188:3 211:1 294:9 326:18 367:11 proposals 137:10 156:10,16 216:10 propose 369:1 proposed 7:8,12 37:2,5,9 41:2,3 61:1 85:2,8,11,16,19 86:2,3,18 88:11 95:6,7,17 96:14 105:2 107:7,9 109:9 119:22 124:4 129:10,13 131:19 137:8 143:4 205:21 208:18 244:17 246:1 266:19 375:5,6 pros 80:5 prospect 218:4 protections 152:4 provide 81:10 83:22 88:10

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 46

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 177:18 191:3,20 192:16 246:8 250:8 252:9 261:10 269:13 270:11 provides 3:15 providing 35:3,5 240:8 provision 110:21 167:11 provisions 125:18 217:21 proxy 25:20 public 12:8 29:21 30:3 31:2 41:6,7 68:15 82:9,18,22 83:1 85:22 107:2,6,7,8 108:21 109:3 118:14 119:1,12 136:2 153:20,22 154:8 175:20 181:9 196:9 200:18 201:3,8 202:2,7 213:16 222:12 246:8 270:17 348:21 349:2 372:2 374:9 375:7 377:1 383:1,20 publication 85:11 publicized 83:19 public's 79:7 publish 244:17 246:2 published 7:17 41:5,10 246:16 265:1 346:9 375:6 379:10 publishes 95:6 pulled 146:11 307:19 pulling 44:1 52:22 174:21 pulse 61:14 pump 270:2 pumps 27:7,9 42:10,12,14,17 65:20 punching 52:21 purchase 247:6 326:3 331:1,8,18 332:4,9 369:11 371:3,12 373:13 purely 140:2 purpose 7:6 86:11 164:21 310:18 purposes 4:11 347:3 368:18 push 29:5 38:1,2 113:12 114:8 133:22 172:16 177:10 207:7,13 219:18 239:8 249:17,20 259:5 308:17,19 330:11 puts 37:8 116:9 197:9 putting 89:4 113:7 128:8 169:7 173:3 181:15,18 182:4 192:11,15 199:14 217:6,7 297:9 305:17 306:10 308:6 351:9 366:13 puzzled 216:6 Q quads 367:10 qualified 33:17

qualifiers 364:13 quality 253:20 254:4,10 260:17 290:1 293:19 306:7,20,21 307:22 325:13,15,17 334:3,6 339:6,22 341:8 379:10 380:14 question 6:2 23:21 43:10 47:16,17 54:7,8,10 61:6 63:7 64:6 76:1 78:20 80:13 82:6,14 88:19 90:16 94:9 95:4,12 102:8 108:11,20 128:10 129:18 141:6 142:7 149:7,13 153:9 165:1 167:6 178:13 191:1 192:17 197:5 198:7 200:2 204:2 207:2 208:9 212:19 249:15 254:1,19 260:7 269:19 270:6 301:8 305:7 320:22 325:4 327:4,8,13 334:2 346:5 351:18 355:2 358:7 371:9 374:22 377:21 questioning 220:4,7 questions 6:12 12:8 26:6 37:12,14 40:10,16 42:9

47:14,15,17 49:6 65:7 68:4 70:19 72:11 86:22 87:3,14 142:3 248:22 249:1,2,4 252:22 254:12 370:17 374:11 quick 3:9 6:19 43:12 127:9 200:2 218:17 237:11,12 238:7 252:19 253:6 309:21 quicker 30:7 quickly 7:4 27:13 56:8 59:19 60:3 238:17 254:5 260:8 269:13,15 347:18 348:1,10 quiet 218:15 quite 26:9 33:15 34:1 59:22 126:15 185:15,21 233:8 276:19 381:16 R raise 16:6 47:18 72:21 120:8 352:3 raised 97:22 98:8 101:7 120:5 346:6 raising 187:9 368:6 Ramirez 2:3 10:5 12:15,16 15:18 16:18 17:2,20 18:14 19:1,15 21:16 23:12,18,20

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 47

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 24:5,9 32:18 34:8 38:19,22 41:21 43:12,22 44:8,11,14,21 50:12,15 51:5 57:17,22 59:16 60:4,10 61:4,17 62:5,13 63:5 64:5,12,17 66:1 69:11 74:9,14,19 76:11,19 77:15 83:2 85:14 86:13 88:3 92:1,17 93:18 96:6 98:20 99:15 100:6 101:14 103:5,20 104:17 106:5 109:22 114:14 118:8 119:4 120:3 125:21 127:18 130:13,17 134:14,18 136:22 137:5,19 138:11 140:6 141:21 146:1 147:6 148:18 149:3,6,10,15 155:8,12 162:11 165:11 166:19 167:2 169:4 171:5,13,15 172:11 174:13 175:6 181:1 183:1 184:13 185:8 196:13 197:14 199:21 203:10,20 205:2,6,15 206:12 207:2,6 208:5,15 209:4,8,11,14 214:9 215:19 218:6,9 220:13 223:6,8,10,21 227:4,7,15,19 228:7,12,15,19,2 2 229:5,8,13,15,20 230:1,5 232:13 233:1,8,21 234:4,8,11,17 235:2,7,11,17,19 ,22 236:6,8,11,17,20 237:6 238:7 249:21 255:16 256:9,17 257:13,17 258:6,13,17,20 259:1 261:13 267:15 268:14 269:16 270:12 271:2,4,22 272:3,7,9,12,20 273:15 276:15,18 277:1 278:3,6,9,12,14, 19 279:3,7,11,17,20 280:9 281:19 284:16,18 285:3 286:10 287:3,7,9 289:9,13 291:3,9,18 293:9 294:3,18 295:5,20 296:5,11,14,18 297:9,11,19 298:3,7,11 299:3,7 300:9 301:3,11,13,17 302:2,10,13,18 303:14 304:16 305:15 306:9,12,15,17,2 1 307:3,7 308:5,10 309:14,20 310:8,12,16,21 311:5,7,10,12,16

312:2,4,21 313:5,9,12,16,22 314:6,9,17 315:14,17,19 316:18 317:15,20 318:10,14 319:11 320:3,11,13,17,1 9,22 321:8 322:2,11 324:8 326:7,10,13,21 327:17,20 328:1,6,12,16 329:20 330:2,14,19 331:3,14 332:3,11,13,17,2 0 333:1,5,7,11,18, 21 334:8,13,17 335:2,5,20,22 336:2,10 337:5,7,15,21 338:3,15,17 339:1,11,18 341:1,5,7,19 342:1 343:4,8,12,15 345:16,19 346:1 348:20 349:1,9,19 351:2,13 352:2,17,19 353:5,10,18 354:4,7 355:5,13 356:2,7,10 357:9,16 358:6 359:9,18 360:5,7 362:21 364:20 365:12,16,20 366:1,4 372:14 373:12,18 374:14 381:22 random 327:15

range 14:5 164:12 165:9,10,11,12,1 9 167:8 168:17,21,22 169:3,8 rates 361:10 rather 42:14 60:3 112:3 117:7 157:10 174:5 183:5 211:2 247:12 255:13 261:2 313:7,10,12 356:18 rationale 179:15 342:17 reach 7:7 10:9 11:4 15:4 28:6,7 30:17 31:8 66:10,16 106:12 114:4 133:14 134:10 152:17 179:17 203:14 204:20 205:10 224:6 225:8 288:21 289:6 350:11 reached 27:22 28:1 66:12 74:3 84:17 100:17 227:6 375:16 reaches 74:7 245:22 reaching 96:2 164:21 182:12 reading 15:1 40:8 89:9 143:10 reads 106:3 225:4 ready 44:2 55:16 113:19 134:8

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 48

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 253:6 real 3:9 6:19 30:5 35:7 65:13 89:11 163:17 168:13 178:16 237:12 268:1 288:1 309:21 369:20 realistically 126:4 reality 160:16 226:16,17 realize 4:15 133:11 268:19 really 9:15 11:21 19:2,5,6 28:9 30:13 39:18 60:2 61:15,16 71:4 75:2 77:14 89:13 92:5 119:3 123:9 128:19,22 129:4,5,17,22 130:1,5,7 131:1,4,10 133:13,22 137:22 138:1 139:18 140:21 144:6 146:5 149:4 160:20 163:14 170:4 172:21 173:21 175:2 179:20 181:16 186:9,21 194:13 196:2,10 197:8,10 201:15 222:1 226:18,19 231:3,6,20,21 238:18 245:5 252:17 257:21 261:2 264:13 267:21 277:7 280:4,5 286:21 288:15 319:21 341:14 354:21 358:12 360:18 361:13 362:7 366:11,15 367:3 370:20 374:16 381:9 realm 300:20 reason 45:1 95:13 127:10 128:12 134:21 170:14 175:10 188:21 208:3 213:12 224:3,8 255:11 257:2 288:1 reasonable 84:12 129:16 207:11,15 364:4,12 370:16 reasonably 363:21 reasoning 51:20,22 reasons 13:1 162:21 168:13 received 33:16 41:7 receiving 252:6 recent 246:14 264:8 recently 27:6 receptive 252:6 254:10 257:11 Recess 229:14 recognize 4:8 95:16 222:19 recognizes 169:8 recommendation 32:6,10 66:17 83:4 98:4 100:19 109:20 131:18 179:22 245:18 344:5 381:11 recommendations

5:20 13:15 40:14 66:15 67:22 75:6 170:15 379:16 recommended 66:11 84:17 85:18 99:9,10 reconsideration 62:12 record 14:2 59:7 97:22 107:6,7,16,20 108:12,22 136:15 185:9,11 193:4 247:1 272:14 281:15 302:9 314:5 325:22 335:1 339:16 373:19 377:9 383:8 recorded 383:6 RECORDING 147:17 148:4 172:16 177:10 207:13 219:18 239:7 249:17 259:5 308:17 330:11 recordings 384:8 record's 357:20 redline 346:10 redlines 347:1 reduced 383:7 redundant 101:13 refer 11:19 318:9 319:4 reference 109:1 referencing 221:4 referring 83:15 156:21 318:7 322:20

refers 94:11 refight 157:10 reflect 289:3 reflecting 261:1 reflection 259:16 reflects 102:18 refocus 53:6 Reform 20:22 241:19 refrigerators 270:4 reg 12:17 regard 109:2 376:5 regarding 3:21 139:16 141:13 regardless 83:17 104:19 regional 26:18 Register 34:12,15 82:15 89:5 90:3 97:5,16 106:3 135:22 regular 12:22 180:9 202:20 regularly 278:14 regulate 23:7 regulation 297:16 regulations 217:17 regulatory

20:22 26:12,22 85:9 87:5 90:20 178:14 241:19 248:20 376:9 reinforces 30:13 rejection 171:9

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 49

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 relate 261:9 360:16 related 120:9,11 238:1 324:17 330:1 335:12 339:10 340:1 383:10 relates 98:8 230:19 347:15 357:22 relating 295:15 relations 116:1 relative 338:6 383:13 release 347:18 relevant 72:19 76:17 86:1 137:13 166:18 252:8 268:5 337:12 347:6 relied 80:8 re-litigate 143:7 rely 153:19 remaining 233:13 remark 342:20 remember

58:2 197:11 278:9 340:19 remind 194:22 reminded 38:6 removal 162:1 216:11,15,20 217:2 230:19 remove 139:5 217:16 226:11 removing 230:22 repeat 171:2 repeated 214:22 replace 207:3 replacement 204:4,5 replacing 237:18 report 5:19 81:17 84:13 120:18 141:9 250:8,14 251:7,15,20 261:4 379:14 380:1,5,9,12 reported 1:20 66:13 384:5 reporter 13:20 22:7 38:20 59:9 140:11 384:5 Reporter's 384:7 Reporting 1:20 reports 31:13 254:10 379:9 380:4 represent 21:1,6 66:21 72:9 73:7 90:2 93:10 115:4 123:3 238:19 241:20 representation 132:20 representational 67:14 representative 24:16 68:2 93:14,22 207:21 237:8 representatives 75:12 represented 66:22 67:6 75:15,18 94:4 123:5 representing 4:19,22 25:10 76:14 77:6 93:18

94:7 170:2 177:16 239:22 242:4 represents 73:11 176:16 request 7:14 261:17 262:7 requested 43:5 65:16 381:4 required 139:13 376:1 requirement 40:2 requirements 67:14 83:18 249:13 253:8 265:11 293:4 297:6,16 307:8 335:11,14 359:3 366:19 368:17 369:3,13 requires 178:12,15 266:12 317:10 369:21 requiring 329:16 rerunning 260:6 research 242:12,13 341:21 reservations 273:6 reserve 99:12 180:20 182:19 191:4 residential 267:20 347:2,3 362:10 resign 123:2,6 144:20 212:20 214:1,7 resigns 67:13 resiliency 299:1,5

resistance 198:16 resistive 325:9 326:9,17 334:12,19 resolution 10:19 14:13 15:4 22:14,20 114:4 resolve 10:13 200:7 resolved 136:12 resolving 25:4 resources 20:19 65:15 241:13 respect 186:13,15 342:12 352:9 364:14 respectful 102:20 respective 59:22 342:18 respond 200:14,20 responding 199:3 202:7 response 70:13 85:22 90:18 201:15 212:16 254:13 372:20 377:2 responsibilities 4:6 responsibility 4:21 52:7 54:19,20 55:13 198:2 243:11 responsible 11:8 20:10 85:6 240:17 rest 18:5 34:15 77:12 118:13

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 50

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 148:17 185:16 186:9 352:1 restrict 105:20 225:21 restricting 105:12 restrictions 102:9 restrictive 106:8 restrooms 9:1 result 40:13 113:6,8 165:8 results 11:14 347:18 retained 213:22 reverse 110:1 reversed 127:15 revert 199:18 review 59:2 244:2 246:4 248:4 251:22 285:5 348:1 379:18 reviewed 41:4 379:12 revised 264:21 revisit 92:14 revote 172:1 rich 136:10 Richard 2:11 20:16 91:9,10 229:17 230:6 233:17,18,22 234:22 235:2 241:6,7 Richmond 20:18 Rick 2:15 23:5 373:11 374:15 376:5 rid 123:22 198:17 208:18 rights 104:4 113:4 120:13,14 121:20 122:20 124:3 125:13 146:12 160:15 161:10 162:1 164:11 165:22 166:10 174:11 184:15 189:11,16 199:12,13 212:15 213:21 rise 53:4 road 166:8 218:4 Rob 20:14 39:12 63:2 79:4 93:1,2 118:10 127:21 138:14,15 152:2 176:13 179:9 200:1 218:21,22 241:1 264:6 286:5 301:7 303:3 312:15 349:6 358:12 Robert 2:5 199:21 250:3 267:17 Robert's 118:9 141:14 Robin 2:13 20:19 59:17 60:20 102:7 128:1,2 137:15,20 159:2 184:13 185:13,14 195:13,15 221:19,22 226:15 241:13 259:2,3,11 262:3,4 360:6,10 366:15 Rocky 24:10 role 4:20 13:3 361:21 roles 4:8 rolling 60:3 roof 362:16 room 9:4,7 14:8 16:6 18:5 26:7 36:18 38:4 56:9,18 121:9 127:6 133:14,19 144:17 145:6 163:5,9,12 199:7 202:17 213:13 222:3 226:22 237:11 238:9,18 251:10 257:15,18 288:8 329:12 367:1 rooms 277:9 281:10,17,18,19 282:3,4,5,6,7,8,1 8 Rosenstock

2:16 22:22 rosy 46:6 round 8:4 rounds 245:1 248:2 row 11:9 Roy 2:13 20:19 59:17 60:20 61:11,22 102:7 128:1,4 137:15,20 185:14 186:5 195:7,18 221:19,21 223:9,11,15 241:13,16 259:3,7,11 260:9 271:6,10,12,18 317:19,22

318:2,6,11 360:10 361:15,20 363:19 365:2,8,11,14,19 ,22 366:2,5 370:16 rude 222:10 rule 3:17 5:16 7:8,12 10:7,18,20 11:5,10 15:5 22:2 25:4,8 26:1,10,13,14 28:2,14 30:18 37:2,5,9 39:18 41:2,3,8,10 61:2 62:7 66:9,22 85:2,8,11,16,19 86:2 88:11 90:17 91:1 93:7 94:14 95:6,7 96:3,12,14 98:5,16 100:3 105:2 107:7,9,14 108:5 109:1,3,4,9 116:21,22 117:13,17 126:17 129:10,14 131:20 132:5 133:10,12,14,15, 18 134:1 135:16,19,21 139:21 140:1 143:19 144:13,15,16 145:22 188:10 195:20 202:8 244:20 268:21 289:7 368:20 369:16 375:5,6

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 51

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 376:21 rulemaking 40:15 154:14 175:11 179:20 188:17 199:19 202:1,19,20 203:12 204:18 205:6,21 225:6 239:1 244:14,15,17 261:17 353:22 rulemaking's 200:8 rules 3:22 4:2 5:4 8:3 30:12 35:17 37:19 43:10,16,18 49:13,17 58:20,21 59:5 64:13,17,21,22 66:6 79:5 87:5,9 92:20 96:18 97:4 122:22 127:6 131:8 132:18 133:1,2 141:14 154:10 233:12,14,16 234:2,6 235:21 236:4 300:15 381:15 run 116:4 183:20 248:13 250:21 252:15 269:15 270:7 354:1 running 121:1 270:8 runs 49:9 51:19 135:8 269:6 Rural 19:18 239:6,11 S sake 310:10

sampling 327:15 sand 138:4 Santana 2:6 20:12 44:6 50:11,13 68:5,7,11 94:10 112:8 119:17 141:12,17,20 144:9 168:14 214:10 225:12,18 226:2,5,8 240:20 266:8,14,16 267:12 285:15,19 300:10 304:3 308:15,21 309:1,8 312:9 313:6,10 316:12,15 318:1,3 333:3 336:16,18,21 338:21 344:18 349:14 350:18 355:16,19 356:5,13 357:12 363:1 sat 267:18 satisfied 111:1 Saturday 284:3 saving 332:10 savings 321:5 362:4 364:1 367:10 schedule 236:15 254:20 257:8 282:21 scheduled 82:2 schedules 71:7 251:4 Schneider 298:22 311:4 330:7,13,15 335:20,21 school 86:19 scientific 16:12 scope 26:20 38:6,11 81:3 245:14 262:22 304:6 305:5 350:19 361:4,13 score 70:6 Scott 2:12 20:1 112:17 118:1 174:13 185:17 188:13 240:3 scratching 52:21 screaming 52:21 screen 344:15 scribbled 204:9 sealing 329:7 search 266:17 seated 69:13 Seattle 19:21 second 15:21 39:11 50:1 54:9 94:2 141:18 151:7 164:19 209:12 223:9 232:21 234:3 250:16 265:18 266:2 269:3 292:10 298:8 seconds 54:4 secretary 26:4 32:11,13 37:10 40:14 41:1 243:13,19 246:10 247:20 365:4 Secretary's 363:21

sect 145:7 section 7:9 58:21 94:11 139:5 165:18 328:21 347:5 sections 117:9 161:16 238:2 sectors 21:7 242:5 sects 145:7 seeing 135:11 338:17 364:10 seek 244:19 246:11 seem 90:12 108:4 116:5 124:5,6 207:8 seemed 107:21 167:3 235:12 seems 89:20 90:12 121:1 124:6,15 143:20 156:20 164:20 166:3 182:18 190:6 198:7,9 199:16 207:20 224:20 276:19 304:4 364:6 369:19 seen 48:11 96:11 98:6 100:16 sees 190:5 segments 145:11 select 33:21 selected 93:13 semantics 94:6 110:6 send 121:18 171:3 179:15 252:18 280:9 302:10

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 52

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 348:2 sending 276:11 senior 21:15 81:12,13 sense 106:18 134:11 142:1 163:3 195:3 197:2 224:13 226:16 262:8,15 289:7 293:18 366:11 367:16 368:22 370:6 sensible 185:18 187:3 sent 40:20,21 65:21 144:2 259:13 348:6 sentence 74:10 94:2 101:7,12 205:11 separate 39:4 98:1,20 101:6 232:18 235:12 288:22 312:21 321:14,17 339:14,19 separately 37:19,20 42:16 September 7:12 31:14 33:5,10 36:21 84:9,14 273:2 280:17 281:5 282:10,12,14,17 285:7,8 series 142:10 serious 159:7 serve 67:9,12 75:16 179:10 239:12 serves 135:8 Service 10:11 services 312:17 session 67:20 72:4 116:21 sessions 82:2 135:22 sets 116:22 273:1 setting 142:20 300:17 settlement 28:11 110:22 122:4,18 settlements 110:17 111:10 setup 329:9 seven 17:22 27:16 135:4 137:7 145:17 168:11 303:5 363:22 several 27:10 42:12 63:9 214:22 238:5 260:17 severe 299:1,5 shake 200:5 shame 14:10 163:10 shape 378:21 share 239:14 259:17 269:5 379:9 shared 182:1 sharing 105:21 sheet 7:12 31:16,19 32:8,14 33:11 37:3 40:19,20 43:2 84:14,16 85:1,7 86:21 89:3,8 93:7 94:13,18

96:13 99:9,10 101:10,11 105:7 109:20 110:12 122:5 128:16 150:18,19,20 155:14,16 156:2,9,10 165:7 167:7,11,12 168:16,21 169:2,19 170:4 171:4,7 173:4,8 180:3 181:19 185:2 189:22 193:13 212:6 219:6 221:17 231:16 243:9,10,11,19 245:2,21 247:18,19 248:1 343:22 361:5 366:6,13 375:4 381:11 sheets 41:18 42:2 65:17,18 122:2 150:22 151:4 168:9 245:4 sheet's 201:20 219:4 she's 3:13 12:20 147:2 281:17 shipping 361:10 shocked 288:10 shoes 24:17 shoot 124:17 short 103:16 168:11 231:4 270:9 341:11 shorten 18:19 shorter 30:8 shot 44:12 328:8 shots 112:4

shout 17:8 shown 55:12 shows 37:13 346:10 370:20 shut 105:14 232:14 345:14 sic 103:10 sideways 49:1,3 51:3,7,18 57:3 61:20 158:10 233:9 sign 8:15 17:18,20 30:17 183:16 199:11 signatories 111:8,11 113:7 127:12 signatory 121:19 signed 30:18 84:19 123:20 157:16 185:17 significant 85:1 363:14 significantly 66:21 75:13 signing 159:14 172:21 signup 159:11 198:11 silence 100:2 silencing 130:3 Silicon 20:20 similar 110:16 306:6 simple 54:1,18 56:12,17,21 103:22 168:21

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 53

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 183:7 184:18 226:13 304:1 simpler 162:2 simplest 161:15 217:14 simplify 303:13 simply 87:6 91:1,3 98:11 125:17 146:10 370:1 simulation 269:6 simultaneous 44:13 78:22 86:9 91:22 96:5 130:15 139:15 single 121:15 181:21 183:12 232:6 289:21 301:9 302:1 328:20 single-section 329:3 singlewide 297:1 302:4,6 327:14 361:9 sit 11:9 24:18 111:21 152:15 160:16 175:19 199:7 332:18 site-built 295:17 sitting 21:17 72:14 112:4 119:2 176:18 210:15 223:1 237:9 352:4 374:18 situation 87:22 104:2 110:7 116:9,10 142:20 situations 3:18 six 17:22 135:3,15 137:5,6 145:17 307:1 336:12

size 297:7,9 sizing 293:7 297:10 309:3,4,7,22 315:1 skills 56:16 slapping 52:22 slice 202:20 slide 27:16 34:10 37:13 342:12 369:18 371:7 slides 236:21,22 237:3 243:7 249:5 slightly 3:8 45:4 74:11 102:13 slower 204:22 small 22:9 145:8 315:6,7 smaller 21:1 186:17 191:4 241:21 297:1 smart 14:7,11 138:1 238:3,4 smiling 136:5 smithing 117:8 smoothly 135:8 soften 103:14 softer 18:6 software 250:22 251:17 254:3 sold 12:18 solution 14:6 46:12,14 123:18 366:17 solve 47:3 303:18 solving 47:7,11

somebody 16:21 34:4 60:1 64:10 90:3 107:13 123:9 129:7 131:22 143:20 157:16 163:5 183:14 195:19 200:3,22 213:13 216:22 296:5 312:1 332:12 somebody's 171:22 191:10 207:18 somehow 161:22 someone 35:11 93:6 114:6 190:15 194:16 195:12 280:12 332:8 367:19 someplace 339:10 something's 15:21 somewhat 101:17 265:12 340:1 somewhere 166:8 sorry 8:10 32:20 41:22 50:8 59:8 77:7,8 79:18 86:8 107:12 108:19 118:1 119:4 130:14 132:11,14 140:13 177:15 186:6 188:2 193:18 195:15 205:1 220:1 227:15 232:14 237:14,20 249:22 255:1 280:15 282:12 295:13 300:11 309:8,19 318:14 328:1 329:21

331:14 349:6 352:21 365:8 sort 4:21 5:18 6:8 29:4 34:2,4 80:9 97:15 116:17 117:7,21 148:2 168:19 238:6 257:19 260:16 288:21 291:1 360:20 372:20 sound 340:17 sounds 92:7 114:21 180:22 220:21 227:2 277:14 367:3 370:16 372:15 South 176:8 space 54:5 spaced 54:1 spaces 330:16 334:1 spark 52:5 speak 25:6 79:9 86:18 121:10 174:9 175:9 225:1 259:7 295:2 303:8 316:18 374:18,19 376:4 SPEAKER

71:13 148:6 193:9 197:18 205:22 208:21 209:2 210:17 213:4,6 218:14 221:7,16,19 225:14,16 227:12 228:2 229:18 234:5,9,12,18,21 236:1,14 237:4

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 54

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 238:20 250:1 259:8,9 264:3 271:15,21 272:1,17 273:10,13,18,21 274:2,9,12,13 275:1,14,18 276:2,21 277:4,6,11,22 279:1,5 281:2,11,13 282:1,9 283:1,3,10,12 284:5,7,12,22 285:10 286:8,12,15,22 291:6 294:20 295:1 296:9 298:15,18 301:22 302:6 303:6 307:18 309:10,17 310:6,14 312:11,13 313:2 314:3,7,11,13,20 ,22 315:2,4,5,8,10,1 5,18,22 316:4,6,8,10,13, 17,20 317:11 318:4 319:12,13,15 320:4 321:13,15,19 322:1,3,5,7,9,14 323:18,20 324:10,21 325:2,10,16,18 326:15,19 327:19 328:3 334:16,18,21 335:15,19 338:12 340:11,15 341:4,6 345:12,14,15,21 348:12,15,17 355:7 356:8 358:3 364:22 366:20 371:18 372:10 373:1 376:12,14 378:7 speaking 38:1,5 44:13 72:14 78:22 86:9 91:22 96:5 130:16 139:15 144:1 219:2 238:15 353:21 special 3:20 4:3 5:3 14:14 164:11,17 174:3 184:10,15 187:9 317:10 specialty 289:22 301:12 specific 70:19 75:5 87:4,14 143:13 194:17 352:18 356:15 357:14 371:1 specifically 83:15 88:1 98:8 101:18 269:8 370:18 specifics 370:11 specify 42:6 speech 18:19,20 124:3 speed 268:12 Spell 296:12 spelled 177:4 spelling 56:13,15 296:6 spells 342:13 spend 47:19 133:11 134:11 199:14 270:14,16 287:17 288:16 295:5 spending 46:16,22 203:3 spent 103:17 199:4 spirit 108:5 161:18 175:14 176:11 195:3 203:2,7 spitting 52:20 split 312:6 spoke 150:5 spoken 218:12 spot 187:14 spreadsheets 347:22 squeeze 134:15 Stacey 2:14 20:3 240:6 299:20 337:18 359:13 377:22 378:13 staff 65:14 81:13 85:6 379:18 stage 376:19 stages 245:1 stairwell 8:18,19 stake 111:21 112:2 122:12 stakeholders 144:17 201:21 254:2 stance 94:16 155:2 stances 158:20 stand 6:18 143:1,6 188:10 222:21 standard 7:2 28:5 64:20 86:5 152:18 199:18 210:4 245:15 246:1 247:3 289:2 292:21 307:10 337:1,4 351:19,22 353:4 354:15 355:1 359:14 360:17 366:12 369:2 standards 3:17 6:20 21:11 26:1,8,19,21 27:8 38:8,12 40:17 41:11 42:13,16 66:11 84:18 85:18 86:4 95:17 157:13 231:5 246:7,13 247:8 266:9 297:16,20 362:11 363:20 364:10 366:6 367:19 368:14,15 standing 48:20 271:13 star 44:22 242:15 270:3 290:2 Starkey 2:5 21:5 40:11 63:18 96:20 97:19 130:19 147:1 148:2,8,12,22 149:4,7,13,16,18 ,22 150:2,4 213:10 242:2,8 273:8 305:20 306:11,13,16,20 309:11,16,19 310:4,7,9,18,22 311:9,11,15,18 312:3,5 313:14,19

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 55

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 314:1,10 315:12,20 316:2,16 317:2,5,8 318:19 319:1,22 322:13 333:14,19 344:6,10,13,17 354:12,13 355:9,15,18 356:4 start 18:16 43:22 47:7 53:4 237:17 239:3 244:10 254:6 257:4,9 259:21 261:1,3,8 266:17 267:1,5 285:11 288:17 290:11,15 305:9,16 306:9 308:6,13 309:11 310:3 311:13 312:7 342:7,10 344:11 348:7 349:16,17 355:16,21 359:8,11,22 360:7 361:13,16 369:8 370:12 371:19 372:15,19 382:1 started 3:2 21:16 44:1 45:7 57:6 129:18 149:12 189:6 230:2 243:21 299:10 starting 55:16 66:8 118:21 181:17 259:18 260:22 289:15 292:18 307:1 341:12,17 361:17 369:20 state 14:1 38:19 59:6 121:3 162:6 208:3 241:9,12 264:17 stated 74:12 statement 84:19,22 85:16,17 89:21 90:15,18 148:14 188:6,8 207:8 208:8 209:21 statements 47:16 73:2 stating 98:11 status 271:19 statute 7:21 42:5 178:12,15 247:16 352:6 354:18 357:21 371:8 372:6,22 375:2 376:2 statutes 4:3 213:21 217:17 373:8 statutory 35:1 40:2 87:5 90:20 139:22 178:14 243:17 246:5 368:19 369:13 stay 4:21 9:21 64:19 255:9 256:18 270:22 272:3 staying 256:15 374:13 stays 140:18 stead 74:6 steamrolled 196:18 steamroller 52:4,5 55:16 61:9 step 20:4 31:5,6,9 44:20 113:18 120:1 349:14,18

stepped 25:13 52:12 240:11 steps 91:6 Steven 2:16 22:22 stewards 231:15 stick 364:19,20 sticking 196:15 235:13 stop 16:7 124:3 249:1 327:15 stopping 255:14 story 290:17 straight 5:9 61:2 254:4 straightforward 34:18 184:19 185:7 226:13 strange 124:19 190:6 199:16 Strawman 151:5 244:10 305:9 street 147:4 200:5 strengthen 131:11 strenuously 62:10 stricken 91:15 92:11 174:6 strictly 219:2 strike 112:14 131:19 198:21 232:4 334:6,9,10 strikes 182:21 striking 169:5 179:12 227:8 228:13,18 232:16,19 233:4,6 235:4,16,17

stringent 247:3 strive 56:4 58:14 100:12,14 striving 60:18 197:16 strokes 342:13 strong 15:2,3 88:21 145:8 148:14 strongly 150:5 struck 351:18 structure 351:19,22 353:3 structured 356:17 struggle 46:4 62:2 100:6 struggled 381:16 struggling 100:21 104:18 stuck 114:11 216:20 217:10,12 stuff 40:10 49:20 59:8 94:15 160:11 199:2 203:3 222:21 236:12 237:20 245:12 308:14 310:3 330:5 333:1 337:16 338:18 348:9 349:15 357:14 361:11 stupidest 192:3 sub 9:4 subcategories 300:7 sub-committee

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 56

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 11:22 subcommittees 84:1 subgroup 75:8,9,12,14,16, 19 77:10,12,20,22 78:2,11,16 79:2,14 80:4,9,18,21 81:17,19 82:1,5,8,13,15 83:10,18,19 84:1 138:6 subgroups 75:4,20 77:16 78:6 79:14,16 80:14,17 81:5,11 subgroup's 83:3 Subgroups 75:1,4 81:15 subject 276:17 329:13 364:3 subjective 181:13 submit 141:8 153:21 215:4 submitted 86:1 subsection 123:1 subsequent 99:21 subset 79:21 260:14 309:2 313:7,20,22 314:1 subsets 126:18 313:19 333:12 subsidiaries 4:16 substance 36:18 86:20 94:12 101:9,11 substantive 138:19 substantively 355:12 substitute 67:19 subsumed 307:2 Subway 147:6,8 success 11:1 27:8 286:18 354:11 successful 27:3 35:14 367:9 succinct 136:9 sucked 212:19 sudden 105:14 sue 129:9 181:8 208:8,12 211:9 212:7 215:4,17 226:9 232:5 278:2 sued 211:6 sufficient 257:6 suggest 124:9 127:8 170:22 206:7 292:14 294:15 306:13 340:5 350:9 359:22 suggested 103:21 111:7 114:16 182:9 183:7,13 323:15,21 suggesting 55:20 56:7 176:10 177:2 213:11 238:8 suggestion 98:10 103:11 109:13,14 112:22 120:1 125:2 135:3

141:6 206:6 217:9 360:2 suggestions 13:12 98:9 298:1 suggests 138:16 153:15 summaries 136:3,6 summarize 195:10 summary 236:18 243:5 sunrooms 251:13 347:16 super 55:21,22 56:3 58:18 60:6,7 63:17 73:19 74:15 129:20 324:6 suppliers 242:9 supply 241:3 support 22:1 45:13 48:9,17 49:3 81:10,13 97:1 100:11 102:13 107:19 110:2 131:18 144:10 152:16 153:11 157:10 186:13 196:22 231:6,21 232:1 259:13 299:21 300:5,6 336:22 337:19 supported 46:12 158:19 179:15 201:14 supporters 186:1 supporting 45:13 84:16 85:2,8 115:4 155:16 supportive 185:18

231:1 suppose 258:22 supposed 4:11,12,18 76:7 112:12 123:21 176:12 251:18,20 300:14 363:22 supposedly 201:22 sure 4:7 5:15 8:20 9:16,21 13:5,22 14:3,20 16:8 17:9 33:22 40:19 45:6 47:5,9,14 49:10 54:10 55:17 59:4,18 60:6 62:19 64:11 67:15 69:12 70:14 71:15 76:2,15 79:2 87:2 90:11 92:20 97:20 109:7 111:19 114:6 117:9 127:18 134:6 137:2,14 147:19 154:13 155:11 162:20 167:18 176:20 180:16 186:19,21 192:5 196:9 198:15 209:7,8,10,14,16 218:20 219:1 224:1,10,14,18 231:15 239:5 246:22 251:22 254:21 270:10 278:15 288:15 301:16 302:17 303:16 319:15,20,22 335:9 343:9,21

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 57

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 344:7 348:1 359:12 372:17 379:11 Surrena 2:15 24:11 377:18,19 surrogate 153:19 201:8 226:17 Susan 3:13 suspect 260:16 274:21 364:13 SW 1:10 swag 16:11 swept 214:8 swing 119:12 switching 114:17 353:17 sworn 383:5 sympathetic 101:17 systems 332:1 T table 24:18 30:9 38:9 60:1 69:14 72:14,21 105:18 126:3 137:21 159:9 176:7,19 191:22 202:3 217:8 222:6,8 229:1 252:15 Tables 374:20,21 tackle 26:1,18 27:17 43:1 292:8 tackling 372:19 taking 61:14 112:4 120:2 143:2 193:11 201:1 217:21 222:16 285:14 talk 3:9 6:4 7:19 12:3 39:3 44:2 48:3 49:4 52:13 54:15 56:3 58:11 75:2 103:8 115:14 117:12 125:4 132:21 141:2 147:10 162:14 172:1 196:20 228:17 244:6 287:20 303:17 329:9 337:11 350:17 355:11,20,22 356:1 358:18 359:13 366:7 367:2 talked 24:22 33:13 131:17 183:4 226:20,22 251:13 293:1 308:2 347:17 353:8 374:2 talking 6:21 8:2 17:3 38:15 43:15 46:3,16 47:22 56:2 59:10 60:7 61:8 96:21 100:7,8,9 108:16 126:1 140:21 148:8 155:16 156:1 163:6,8 169:4 173:2 184:21 189:12,13 197:20 216:18 219:10 221:2 244:11 270:13 274:6 301:18,20 304:17,18 309:6 310:2 315:2,6 316:5 317:12 333:15,16 340:13 353:15 355:1,13

358:21,22 373:19 375:12,19 379:22 talks 34:11 133:17 tall 125:17 target 261:20 task 28:2 tasking 32:16 tasks 27:18 31:3 taste 16:2 taxpayers 203:3 team 10:4 115:22 116:1 teams 159:18 teaser 252:17 technical 81:13 115:22 139:20 231:10 244:11 254:4,6 259:13 327:5 361:7 technically 157:17 361:8 techniques 247:11 technologically 364:2 Technologies 21:21 technology 236:21 248:3 telephone 72:5 377:4 telephones 9:8 temperature 55:5,8 62:14 162:18 166:20 167:3 351:6 ten 18:20,22

43:14,18 56:19,21 113:22 285:15,16 tend 159:1 183:17 184:3 tends 38:3 Tennessee 20:6 tension 111:18 tentative 74:4 term 7:12 31:16,19 32:8,14 33:11 37:3 40:19,20 41:18 42:2 43:2 45:19 65:17,18 84:13,16 85:1,7 86:21 89:3,8 93:7 94:13,18 96:12 99:9,10 101:10,11 105:6 109:20 110:12 116:21 122:2,5 128:15 150:18,19,20,22 151:4 155:14,16 156:1,8,10 165:7 167:7,11,12 168:9,16,21 169:2,19 171:3,6 173:4,8 180:3 181:18 185:2 189:22 193:13 196:17,19 201:19 212:5 219:3,6 221:5,16 231:16 243:9,10,11,19 245:2,4,21 247:18,19 248:1 317:7,14 343:22 361:5 366:6,13 375:4 381:11

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 58

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 terminate 84:9 terms 9:9 16:14 25:19 32:12 46:4 60:6 70:22 85:1,3 109:1 133:9 142:8 143:5 162:2 165:16 175:1 213:14 221:18 268:1 270:6 294:13,14 299:13,15 308:3 312:8 323:2 324:18 329:10 343:22 347:21 351:21 353:3 359:14 367:18 369:6 378:19 test 170:18 245:11 327:14 328:18,22 329:11 tested 327:9,10,11 329:16 testimony 383:4,6,9 testing 242:1 321:11 327:6 329:3,10,14 tests 300:16 328:20 text 230:22 thank 6:14,22 7:1,22 22:17,21 61:21 63:5 70:21 71:22 73:15,16 86:11 91:9 147:19 234:13 239:18 242:16 266:6 280:8 319:8 320:16 327:2 330:8,9 332:22 374:12 378:22 380:15,16 381:14 382:5 thanks 3:3 6:15 12:15 178:9 229:12 230:17 241:7 242:10,17,19 that'd 238:21 275:16 that'll 359:15,16 that's 6:20 8:16 9:9 17:2 18:4 23:22 29:5 31:5 34:6,21 41:4,22 42:1,18 43:4 45:7,20 46:8 47:8 48:2,20 49:16 52:22 53:13 55:7,22 57:2,20 59:10,21 60:17 61:8,11,20 63:7 66:1 69:6,13 75:21 76:20 77:16 79:1 80:5,15 81:14 82:7 86:13 89:6 91:3 93:12,16 94:1,4,19 95:9 96:5 97:9 99:11,13 100:19 102:9,14,16 104:1,8,11,17,18 110:22 111:2 112:22 115:11 116:6 117:18 118:6 122:4,13 125:2 126:10 129:17,22 130:10,12,22 131:6 132:13 135:6 137:10,14,16,17 138:20 139:10

142:1 145:8 146:13 148:20 149:4 151:5 152:9,19 155:2,15 156:6,11 157:4,20 160:5 161:4,8,17,20 162:5,21 163:7 166:15 167:17,19 169:18 171:15 173:5,15,16 174:2,16 175:21 176:20 179:4,22 180:6,17 181:11 184:21 185:3,11 186:5,17 187:12 188:21 189:17 191:5,6,8,12 192:9 193:10,21,22 194:2,13 195:4,17 197:15 198:3 199:9 201:8 202:15 203:1,4 206:21 207:19 208:2,13,19,21 209:11 210:6 211:14,19 212:7,12 213:6 214:10 215:19 216:5,8 217:14 219:9,11,15,17 222:3,19 224:8 227:17 228:1,11 232:3 233:10 236:19 238:6 247:1 250:8 252:20 254:1 255:5 256:1 257:5,9 259:15 261:11,18,22 262:1,11 264:21

266:6 268:12 272:15 279:21 280:11 283:8,10 287:16 289:4 290:14 294:16 295:19 297:7 298:15,18 301:1 302:2 304:16,17 305:1,11 306:22 307:2 309:10 311:12 317:7 318:15 319:9,20 322:18 324:7,12,20 325:14 328:7 329:1 330:1,4,21 332:3,19 338:5,13 340:9,16 342:1,2 344:4 345:6,16,19 351:2 352:12 353:1,2 354:9 355:7,13 357:1,2,10 358:2 361:11 363:5,14 366:3,17 370:12,19 375:2,3,13 377:17 themselves 42:15 79:16 108:2 177:22 187:6 238:18 thereafter

383:7 thereby 178:22 therefore 358:1 there's 5:11 6:1,9 9:3,7,11 12:6 13:4 15:8 16:13,18 18:20 28:22 29:1

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 59

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 30:10,19 37:22 48:8 49:19 52:9 56:12,18 62:10 63:9 64:19 65:3 69:16 77:13 78:1 80:8 88:17,20 89:11 90:10 95:19 98:3,20 100:17 101:6 102:11 105:17 106:12 111:18 115:20,22 117:1 118:17 120:1 123:20 126:14,15,16,18 127:11 128:12 131:8 145:10,16,17 147:6 153:9 157:12 159:4,10 160:10 162:13 166:8 169:9 170:15 172:2 173:12 176:4 178:12,14 183:6,11 184:20 191:19 192:16 198:2,15,18 208:3 209:9 225:2 251:3 258:13 264:12,17,19 280:15 284:10,19 286:2,3 291:18,19 292:6,10 296:15 299:12,22 302:21 305:22 306:5 315:18 320:22 322:21 325:5 329:12 331:15 348:2,8 351:17 358:15 362:11 371:14 thermal 293:4,15 307:8 335:7,10 359:2 T-H-E-R-M-A-L 335:7 they'd 207:19 210:15 they'll 6:8 9:15 123:16 191:20 250:7 251:14 282:4 356:2 they're 9:20 46:5 48:12 56:22 63:22 79:5 80:17 82:17,21,22 83:3 87:11 121:8,9 128:8 135:4 136:11 138:3 145:16 166:7,9 176:7 178:7,8,17 179:22 180:8 201:1 207:11 218:15 237:22 245:9 251:16,18,20 260:4 265:17 270:8 280:3,4 286:20 288:6,9 300:15 303:10 313:19 355:21,22 356:5 367:13 374:10 they've 11:3 48:12 65:21 250:11,18 third 21:4 48:8 56:7 61:20 62:17 79:7 105:3 292:10 374:3 third-party

242:1 thirds 158:14 174:9 197:17 198:21 Thomas 1:20

24:12 383:2,20 thoroughly 5:21 thoughtfully 201:4 thoughts 150:11,12 three-year 264:21 three-zone 342:22 threshold 102:17 104:19 threw 54:11 99:3 289:18 291:21 throughout 31:11 throw 16:14 42:19 57:1 58:11 61:7 64:18 109:12,14 127:7 172:5 180:14 194:6 202:4 251:11 292:13 330:3 364:5,17 365:22 throwing 122:13 138:4 190:20 310:3 364:10 thrown 16:9 throws 129:7 thumb 48:22 49:3 51:12 52:7 53:10,12,14,15,2 1,22 54:14,18 55:14,18 58:4,11 61:7,13 62:21 121:15,16 162:19 169:18 171:22 228:20,21 thumbing 54:7 57:9,11 58:1 thumbs 48:22 49:5,7 50:5 51:1,8,9,10

52:1,6,18 53:8,9 55:12 57:2,7 58:17 59:3 61:9,19 64:3 66:5,18 85:14,15 91:13 104:7,10 111:14 130:22 148:15 158:9,10 166:21 167:1 171:8,11,12,22 172:5,6,8,10,12, 13 185:10 227:8,11 228:8,9 232:18,22 233:2,5,7,9 278:19 351:8,11,12 ticket 234:15 tighten 58:21 64:7 232:14,15 tightness 293:19 307:22 339:12,20 356:20 till 256:19 257:16,18,19 258:3 270:22 291:5 timeframe 39:13 today 8:2 9:21 12:2 13:2 15:17 21:12 22:21 24:18 33:3 34:22 36:2 56:9 81:3 156:17 237:17 245:3 258:11 260:20 290:22 341:16 349:8 354:19 367:14 381:14 tomatoes 180:15

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 60

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 tomorrow 12:2 33:3 81:3 255:5,8,12,19 257:20 263:21 270:20 287:17 289:12 290:15 295:6 345:10,13 346:13,18 347:4,21 348:5 359:22 360:8 364:18 367:20 372:15 373:20 379:1 381:5 tomorrow's 255:18 Tompos 2:10 21:3 69:3,8 241:22 296:20 297:5,10 361:9 tone 350:22 tonight 263:17 302:11,14 tons 131:20 topic 36:2 54:3 299:22 topics 75:13 333:13 341:16 381:17 tops 18:1 total 169:17 247:7 369:11 371:4 totally 303:8 touch 6:12 tough 187:14 197:8 277:7,8 303:9 toward 112:3 towards 28:16 39:6 64:15 76:6 223:2 350:12,13 359:6

track 4:21 trade 242:4 371:10 tradeoff 371:14 traditional 244:15 303:12 train 125:14 285:14 TRANSCRIBER 385:1 transcript

384:6,8 385:5 transcription 384:1,9 Transcriptionist 384:18 transcripts 136:4 transformers 36:15 translate 57:21 327:21 translating 85:7 328:7 translation 299:17 transparency 173:17 transparent

30:14 108:5 191:10 199:10 transportation 11:1 297:2 traveling 255:6 travelling 69:20 treated 289:20 296:22 299:11 315:21 tried 89:10 220:2 tries 114:3

trigger 246:17 trouble 247:2 true 5:18 12:20 81:2 114:9 176:21 180:4 260:16 383:8 384:9 truly 45:5 224:14 try 12:5 13:17 15:3,22 33:9 36:21 39:10 46:12 62:15 99:4 103:8 114:3 124:13 126:8 131:11 134:10 143:7 145:3,4,6,19 146:9,16 171:18 187:18 188:10 195:10 196:14 197:11 212:21 213:14 214:4,5 252:2 256:3 272:20 290:19 303:21 306:3 310:19 341:9 349:15 350:1,3 370:5 381:3 trying 10:9,13,16 58:8 59:11 91:19 102:10 115:7 120:21 121:22 124:8 125:16 128:11 142:10,11 146:5 157:10 160:6 161:9 172:4 173:4 175:3 176:12 178:17 179:16 181:21 188:9 192:10 193:21 203:7 216:9 218:8

258:21 263:15 266:22 280:6 289:14 291:20 304:6 319:19 328:17 349:20,22 353:11 361:3,4 362:8 365:8 367:3 369:17 Tuesday 255:3 turn 12:13 13:21 40:22 43:7 69:18 220:2 243:11 turnaround 381:2 turned 247:20 374:20,21 turns 34:9 twice 374:2 twist 58:8 two-third 58:15 60:19 two-thirds 56:18 58:18 59:20 60:9 62:3,8 71:21 73:20 74:15 104:16 105:13 198:20,22 277:17,19 type 40:10 176:2 197:3 222:2 251:6 293:7 317:9 324:5 329:22 361:11 typed 384:6 types 42:12 248:7 289:19,22 295:15 296:21 299:11 301:12 typewriting 383:7

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 61

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 typically 78:6 324:7 typing 24:1 U U.S 11:16 U-factor 80:1 193:5,8 U-factors 79:19 Uh-huh 149:9 152:3 155:10 157:1 164:18 175:6 180:11 195:5 196:6 197:13 198:14 202:11 203:5 212:9 218:11 228:3 269:20 307:7 315:14 317:18 327:3 340:18 343:4 346:8 353:5 377:6 ultimately 39:10 44:18 127:12 303:10 367:8 un 52:18 unable 67:12 72:10 274:10 unaffordable 363:18 unanimity 102:19 129:20 unanimous 44:14 59:12 171:15 236:10 uncomfortable 89:18 90:6 104:22 110:19,20 116:10 184:10 198:10 200:14 231:20 uncomfortablenes s 226:19 underground 290:17 Underline 149:2 underlined 149:5 understand 47:10 50:18 54:8 71:1,6 77:19 83:2,8 87:18 96:21 102:16 104:13 105:11 106:22 112:1 142:7 153:8 158:7 175:3,22 186:9 187:17 190:7,21 211:22 228:22 244:3 253:17 266:21 289:16 290:3 357:13 358:9 understandable 372:1 understanding 14:5 46:17 47:18 104:6 117:1,5 144:17 256:5 265:4 288:7 356:16 375:11 understood 14:22 47:6 154:16 201:2 208:22 224:4 265:2 288:1,14 327:17 un-discussable 52:9 unfair 184:6 unfit 228:4 unfortunately 120:6 133:5 275:9 283:6 286:3 346:12 348:5 Ungar 2:13 20:7 60:5 101:5,15 108:18,20 109:12,17 110:4 142:6 155:21 156:15,19 157:2 187:21 188:2 219:15,20 220:1,4,7,10,15, 17,21 240:11,13 274:6,8 276:7,12,16 299:9 319:17 322:15,20 323:3,11,14,22 324:3,12 335:10,17 336:4,7,12 351:16 352:18 368:9,14 369:19 370:10 Unh-huh 276:2 318:11 UNIDENTIFIED 71:13,17 82:19 86:6 130:12 137:16 148:6 193:9 197:18 205:22 208:21 209:2 210:17 213:4 218:14 221:7,16,19 225:14,16 227:12 228:2 229:18 234:5,9,12,18,21 236:1,14 237:4 238:20 250:1 259:8,9 264:3 271:15,21 272:1,17

273:10,13,18,21 274:2,9,12,13 275:1,14,18 276:2,21 277:4,6,11,22 279:1,5 281:2,11,13 282:1,9 283:1,3,10,12 284:5,7,12,22 285:10 286:8,12,15,22 291:6 294:20 295:1 296:9 298:15,18 301:22 302:6 303:6 307:18 309:10,17 310:6,14 312:11,13 313:2 314:3,7,11,13,20 ,22 315:2,4,5,8,10,1 5,18,22 316:4,6,8,10,13, 17,20 317:11 318:4 319:12,13,15 320:4 321:13,15,19 322:1,3,5,7,9,14 323:18,20 324:10,21 325:2,10,16,18 326:15,19 327:19 328:3 334:16,18,21 335:15,19 338:12 340:11,15 341:4,6 345:12,14,15,21 348:12,15,17 355:7 356:8

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 62

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 358:3 364:22 366:20 371:18 372:10 373:1 376:12,14 378:7 union 113:20 unique 105:9 181:22 unit 302:3 309:22 315:1 units 170:17 309:5 315:7 363:4 367:13 universal 286:3 unless 67:12 84:10 104:20 121:3 157:8 172:22 246:19 247:4 341:15 354:21 366:18 Unlike 368:15 unlikely 110:7 un-mute 320:7,9 379:4,6 un-muted 320:15 unnecessary 101:13 143:21 160:9 166:11 259:20 unproductive 84:5 222:16 Unrelated 141:13 unto 339:7 un-transparent 105:16 unusual 187:10 unwilling 212:20 up/thumbs 66:5 update 260:5 348:13 updating 266:9 269:6 upon 36:9 72:18 95:20,21 114:15 292:17 upper 31:1 Urban 246:10 usage 251:2 useful 129:22 130:1 259:17 260:18 271:10 364:17 usual 29:20 133:11 usually 9:13 46:5 122:4 292:21 U-values 304:10 345:3,4 V vacuum 30:11 39:19 Vaidyanathan 2:11 21:19 88:4,15 96:9,10 106:20,21 109:6 122:22 132:17 138:21,22 139:3,12,19 153:7,13 154:1,4,12,17 156:4,5,18 177:8,13,14 209:18,19 210:6 211:3,14,19,21 212:2 215:22 216:3 268:16,17 375:17,18 valid 47:18 126:4 Valley 20:20 valuable 128:17 131:1 360:3 value 122:8 159:4 164:14,16 331:22 335:12 348:10 values 35:21 165:9 250:20 312:12 various 27:17 213:21 261:15 Venetian 306:20 ventilation 293:16,18,19 306:8 307:21 339:9,18,19,22 340:4,6 380:9,12,13 verbally 179:2 verbatim 371:7 verbiage 74:19 171:6 217:19 verification 340:21 version 7:17 246:14,15 265:10 279:14 290:7 346:10 versions 244:4,5,6 250:21 260:4 290:7 versus 39:21 55:9 99:18 114:19 289:22 301:9 302:1 303:5 318:8 329:12 336:5 346:6 357:19 vested 33:17 vet 62:11 via 65:21

vibrant 222:13 view 71:12 184:17 186:11,15,20 189:19 199:18 337:19 357:20 376:7 viewed 115:16,17 viewpoint 154:19,20 155:1 viewpoints 14:21 190:3 views 179:14 183:8,9 184:2 187:13 257:21 vindicate 125:13 Virginia 20:16,18 21:8 241:7,8,11 virtue 100:4 vis-a-vis 87:17 visitor's 9:17 voice 5:17 108:7 153:18 Voices 272:14 281:15 302:9 314:5 325:22 335:1 339:16 377:9 voluntary 39:7 178:14 volunteered 25:2 32:22 volunteering 80:22 volunteers 33:1 vote 36:9,14 59:12 60:16 63:13,19 64:1 67:21 68:1,10,21 69:1

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 63

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 70:5 74:1,2 87:16 107:4 116:12 131:22 134:8 146:10 150:21 151:1,5 152:15,22 153:10 155:14 156:11 161:20 164:6 167:8 169:17,20 170:7 171:3,7,18 181:3,5 185:2 189:8,14,22 190:8,10,16 191:16 192:13 208:17 211:2 212:3 213:19 214:16 215:1,15 216:22 219:2,4,5 227:3 229:2 231:20,22 232:11 235:14 278:10 voted 113:22 145:9,16 170:12,21 179:11 190:3,16 193:4,13,15,20 194:5,16 202:22 211:11 212:6 232:1 votes 25:19 37:4 142:11 150:21 189:9,12 215:2 219:3 voting 19:11 21:12 56:11 57:1 63:22 64:9 68:22 69:12,14,15 72:5 73:21 91:12 93:17,21 107:13 114:16,17 209:17 W

Wade 24:11 wait 70:20 92:22 229:16 258:3 279:13 349:11 waive 113:4 196:21 215:3 waived 90:21 104:3 213:20 217:1 waiver 146:12 189:10,16 212:14,20 waiving 161:22 199:12 walk 6:9 9:7 152:18 367:1 walked 233:12,22 Walker 2:16 22:4 walking 9:17 walls 297:3 Washington 1:12 10:17 11:19 19:22 23:1 241:20 wasn't 39:8 54:13 56:13,15 59:10,18 60:5 86:11 91:21 107:10 152:6 168:2 198:11 199:5 259:12 309:4 319:20 356:14 water 179:16 251:5 270:1,2 293:11 307:13 322:8 325:9 326:11,13,16,17 watered 179:19 180:1 WATNA 45:19,21 Wayne 2:7 3:8,11 6:15,21 ways 13:15 50:16 89:1 196:5 202:18 268:11 weaker 101:21 wear 24:17 weather 299:1,6 326:9,12 334:11,19 webinar 22:8 23:14,21 24:10 69:15 230:10 278:12 279:16 website 346:16 we'd 24:15 152:15 194:1 198:20 255:7 258:2 week 223:17 243:22 252:3,19 255:3 273:22 274:2 275:5,10,12,13,1 5,18 281:5 weekend 277:5 weekend's 277:7 weeks 27:10 264:9,15 265:1 weigh 177:7 222:10 weight 119:9 200:18,21 207:20 weighty 61:12 Weiss 2:6 20:21 37:18 41:16,21,22

70:8,18 79:13 80:15 82:7,17,20 83:8,14 86:22 87:3,11,14 88:13,17 90:15 94:1 97:18,20 99:20 103:16,21 112:21 114:5,10 118:6 120:4,11 125:1 139:1,10 141:4 146:5 161:14 178:9 189:4 190:7,11,14 203:21 204:1,7,11,15 206:6 212:11 213:9,17 214:18 215:7,10,13 216:8,17,20 218:8 241:18 262:3,4 273:5 275:9,13,16 294:13,14 297:12,13,21 298:12 329:21 332:6 333:6,9 352:3 357:17 358:5,9 360:2 370:22 371:9,14 372:20 373:3,17,22 374:20 376:4,13,16 Weiss's 102:20 welcome 6:11 8:6 10:6 147:20 242:18 374:10 we'll 6:8 8:19,21 9:10 11:22 12:3,5,6,19 13:14 15:10,11,15,16

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 64

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 16:7,8 17:9,10,16,21 18:1 19:8 34:9 36:8 40:6 43:7,15,18 51:13,14 53:5 54:14 55:10 56:10 57:4 58:11 64:18 65:4 70:14 71:22 73:19 74:17 84:4 92:14 101:1 103:1 111:6 134:15 135:6,15 137:2,18 141:2 147:10,12 148:18 159:17 162:18 172:1 182:7,8 186:22 188:10 191:17 192:1 198:16 229:10,20 244:16,17,18,19, 20 252:14,20 261:22 262:1,2 269:14 271:20 282:8 284:21 285:21,22 286:1 290:18 298:14 302:10 312:2 326:21,22 338:18,20 339:2 340:2 342:3,18 358:22 367:21 373:20 377:10 379:1 382:1,3 well-defined 363:21 well-established 373:5 we're 3:7,8 5:14 7:16,18 11:8,20 12:10 13:5,8,12 14:3 15:3,19 17:8 18:9 19:5 21:4,8 24:14 25:1,7 26:18 30:5,6 31:7,9 35:21 36:11,20 39:3 43:9 44:2 45:8 46:8,11,15,21 47:9,13,22 49:7,10,22 52:6,13,14 55:4 56:1,4,6 58:5,13 59:2,3,9,11,13 60:12,13,15,18 61:21 62:3,14,21 64:6 69:11 89:19 90:1,20 91:5,11,13,16 92:15 96:21 97:3 100:7,8,12,14 102:8 103:3,7 105:9,17,18 106:9 107:13 110:6 112:15 117:1,6 118:18 121:1 122:7 123:21 124:8,10 125:5 126:16,19,21 128:11 133:2,3,9 140:21 142:2,9 146:1 154:13,14 155:3 160:1,2,6 161:3,7,8 163:20 165:17 166:12,14 171:21 172:3 173:2 174:7 175:3,15 177:15 184:21 187:17 188:9 189:1 191:15,22 194:2 196:18 197:15 199:3 207:22 209:16 211:14 216:18 219:9

220:12 223:1 226:18 230:21 231:1,2,9,13,19 232:1,2,7,8,9 233:4 236:14 241:19 242:1,3,13 252:1,6 254:15 255:4,9,19 256:2,3 257:11,20 262:17 266:3,18,22 268:18 270:13 272:5,10,20 278:6 282:19,20 289:14 290:8,14,18 291:20 295:5 297:1 300:12 304:6,17,18 310:22 317:12 324:8 329:15 332:14,18,20 333:15 336:4 337:10 341:12 342:5,6,12,14,15 343:9 344:20 346:16 348:6,9 349:1 354:20 355:1 358:21 359:5 360:14,18 361:3,4 364:12 366:3,6,7,13 373:19 377:5 381:1,2 382:1 West 10:15 69:20 78:7 we've 8:21 13:14 14:8,10 24:22 25:15 26:15 28:15 33:14,22 34:2,11,12 38:11 92:1,4 96:12

98:6 100:16 104:8 108:15 118:8 134:4 142:14 146:19 148:9 229:18 245:2,3 251:10 258:3 263:11,15 264:17 267:1,2 279:8 280:16 283:5 287:4 291:6,8 311:1 329:17 348:6 375:16 376:5 381:14,15,16 whatever 17:20 37:7 79:9 80:5 83:4 120:18 121:21 133:21 143:3 162:7 175:16 179:16 184:8,9 190:12 210:16 214:13,14 216:13,18 217:17 220:12 226:6 299:22 303:1 307:10 341:21 359:16 367:11 376:13 whatsoever 183:15 wheels 303:8 wheel-spinning 259:20 whenever 82:3 251:8 whereas 113:15 191:13 whereby 44:16 Where'd 315:15 where's 60:16 336:10 360:13

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 65

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 WHEREUPON 382:6 wherever 203:14 204:20 205:10 206:8 whether 31:21 32:12 75:20 80:7 160:1 163:18 169:2 181:11 189:14 192:17 206:17 271:7 280:6 295:16 303:22 307:17 whip 34:5 346:1 whiplashing 325:21 whittle 349:15 whoever 215:2 whole 17:22 18:9 71:12 77:3 81:7,16 89:14 107:21 112:11 117:6 124:14 156:2 164:16,21 166:14 175:10,14 179:7 202:16 206:21 212:7,13 213:12 221:2 224:3,5,8 238:16 248:18 260:6 261:2,11 269:22 275:10,11 290:9 293:18 340:12 355:2 358:20 374:13 381:9 whole-house 339:12,20 340:10,14 whom 67:3 383:2 who's 42:2 83:1 110:10 138:11 whose 383:4 who've 151:21 wide 26:21 wife's 273:10 wild 16:12 78:7 willing 44:19 127:7 150:6 194:8 Winchester 20:2 window 79:19 80:2 325:14 windows 79:19 193:5 301:21 315:11 wise 137:22 wish 83:21 withdraw 27:18 121:17,18 122:16,18 183:17 withstand 118:14 witness 383:4,6,9 woman 223:17 wonder 111:4 370:19 wonderful 8:15 9:11 wondering 164:9 184:20 188:3 291:14 work 3:12 4:11,17 5:12 7:11 10:10 13:16 15:16 22:19 28:19 30:1 43:6 47:21 48:1 62:4 70:5 71:2 77:17 92:11 103:7 109:14 112:3 116:7 119:13,14 120:16 121:3 122:1 129:1 134:5 135:7 145:5 163:12 171:2 174:7 179:4 180:10 186:16 194:3 197:3 203:12,18 204:18 205:2,6,8 212:8 225:6 231:3 232:6 233:18 237:15 238:3 252:13 255:12 259:4,12 265:5 269:12 274:5 276:1,5 277:14 280:18,19 281:12 282:15 285:14 329:15 350:5 355:3 357:4 381:1 work/why 47:20 workable 61:16 workarounds 123:8 worked 80:6,9,21 working 1:4 3:4,16 4:1,9,18 7:2,5,6,11,14 8:1,5 11:21 15:14,21 18:2,12 25:3 27:6,10,17 28:17,18 31:4,7 32:7 33:14,19,22 34:1 35:15 39:11 42:10,11 43:1,3 60:14 62:3 65:2,5,13,18,19 66:10,13,15 67:2,6,8,10,16,1

8,19,21 68:2 71:9,11 72:2,4,7,12,16,1 8,20,22 73:1,2,6,9,10,18 74:6,14 75:7,10,15,18 76:7 77:22 78:14,17 79:18,20 80:2,3,11 81:11,16,18 82:4 83:19 84:5,17 88:8 93:4 95:5,8 96:13,22 97:2 107:2 109:8 123:1,2,19 132:18,20 135:9,19 136:6,8,14,21 137:7 155:3 159:9 161:8 182:14 194:12 207:1 211:10 223:2 230:13 238:1 243:18 245:4,14,19,22 247:18 248:9 252:2 253:7 261:11 266:19 267:3,6 348:9 350:9 381:8 382:6 works 11:5 26:12 41:13 71:6 79:17 113:12 165:13 289:7 338:18 world 200:6 364:6 worried 119:3 232:2 worry 118:5 182:11

### Capital Reporting Company

Department of Energy Manufactured Housing Working Group 08-04-2014 Page 66

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 worse 28:8 30:20 worst 45:21,22 worth 144:5 161:11 265:5 280:6 281:13 360:17 364:8 Wow 173:14 wrapped 340:6 358:13 wrestle 146:19 305:8 wrestling 43:16 write 116:11 190:3 written 84:19,22 85:17 174:15 179:1 188:17 198:8 204:8 251:7 356:17 wrong 156:13 202:3 328:15 wrote 325:6 379:14 Y YANOSY 384:4,17 Yea 202:8 year's 380:1 yelling 52:21 yellow 228:11 yes's 63:11,16 104:15 yet 38:9 103:4 120:8 218:12 270:6 375:20 yield 247:14 York 10:14 274:11 Yorker 75:2 you'll 8:15 9:3 15:11 30:2 33:1,2 57:5 64:9 110:21 129:14 135:4 168:5 251:6,16 271:12 302:14 328:14 342:4,5 367:9 young 16:22 yours 51:3 yourself 94:8 160:17 374:12 yourselves 22:10 you've 12:1 16:2 30:18 40:12 93:13 101:1 121:2 136:4 168:9 170:11 171:2 185:20 246:22 260:19 263:14 306:1,2 Z zone 289:21 301:8 342:22 350:18 351:17 zones 247:12,13 289:19 292:19 293:1 297:3 303:5,12 304:10 307:5 344:8,21 353:2,22