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### I nth e Matte r of : M& RHELICOPTERS,

- LLC , FA. ADocke t No . CPlOSOOOl l (Civi l Penalt yAction ) FDM S NO . FA.A-2010-121 1 X

X Thursday , Januar y26th , 201 2

BEFORE : RICHAR D C . GOODWI N U.S . Administrativ e La wJudg e Th e above-entitle dmatte r cam e o nfo r Hearin g a t 9:0 0 a.m. , pursuan t t o Notice , i n th e Fourt hFloo r Courtroo mo f th e Holme s Building , 10 1 Larr yHolme s Drive , Easton , Pennsylvania , whe nwer e present , o nbehal f o f th e par t ies : 

# RE C FE B 

### 2 1 20 0 

# HEARlisi G DOCKE T

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O nBehal f o f th e Respondent : MICHAE L SELIG , MD , FACC , CFl- H Respondent' s Representativ e 281 6 Orefiel dRoa d Allentown , P A1810 4 (610 ) 360-395 3 O nBehal f o f th e Complainant : CHARLE S RALEY , ESQ
. Attorney , Enforcemen t Divisio n AGC- 3 0 0 Offic e o f th e Chie f Counse l Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n 80 0 Independenc e Ave. , S.W . Washington , D.C . 2 059 1 (202 ) 267-335 7

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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.co mI-N-D-E- X Complainant' s Openin g Statemen t Respondent' s Openin g Statement : 2 8 3 3

WITNESSE S DIREC T CROS S REDIREC T RECROS S VIRGINI ALOZAD A7 2 11 1 18 2 AM YFR7VNKE L 18 8 EDWAR D L . BAKE R22 0 22 6 22 9

E-X-H-I-B-I-T- S Exhibi t N o A- 1 A- 2 A- 3 A- 4 A- 5 A- 6 A- 7 A- 8 A- 9 A-1 0 R- 1 R- 2 R- 3 R- 4 R- 5 R- 6 A-1 1 A-1 2 A-1 3 A-1 4 

### Id' d

### I 7 8 8 1 8 3 8 7 8 9 9 2 9 7 9 9 10 2 10 4 124 12 8 13 2 16 0 16 1 16 6 19 2 19 9 20 4 21 0 

### ^c' d 8 0 8 3 8 4 8 9 9 2 9 6 9 9 10 1 10 3 10 6 12 8

19 9 20 3 20 9

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2 3 4

[ ^ 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

7 7 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G- S 9:2 8 a.m . JUDG E GOODWIN : W e ar e o nth e record . Counsel , identif yyoursel f fo r th e record , please . An dpleas e b e seated .

MR . RALEY : Charle s Rale yfo r th e Actin g Administrato r o f th e Federa l Aviatio n Administratio nService .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Spel l you r las t

name , please .

MR . RALEY : Raley , R-A-L-E-Y . JUDG E GOODWIN : An dfo r th e Respondent ? DR . SELIG : Michae l B . Selig , S-E

L-I-G . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , than k you . Befor e w e ge t started , I'v e go t a VAcertifie d hearin g loss . An dthi s i s a bi g chamber . So , i f I as k yo u t o repea t something , don' t tak e i t personally .

I literall ycan' t hea r you . And , i f the yhav e ai r conditionin g tha t kick s on ,

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### 9

1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 it' s goin g t o ge t woi'se . So , jus t b e awar e o f

that . I ma yas k yo u t o spea k up . I ma yas k yo u t o repea t something .

S o don' t tak e i t personally , becaus e 1 hav e difficult yhearing . Acoupl e o f preliminar ymatters . I normall ytak e abou t a 1 5 minut e brea k sometim e aroun d10:30 .

We ' r e goin g t o brea k fo r lunc h fromnoo nt o 1 :30 . I normall ytak e a brea k
aroun dthre e i f w e g o tha t long . I lik e t o conclud e hearing s by4 t o 4:15 .

Th e reaso ni s that , althoug hI didn' t se e CSO' s here , I' msur e the yar e i n th e building . M

yoffic e doesn' t hav e fundin g t o pa yfo r it .

An dI kno wth e FA

Adoesn ' t becaus e that' s wher e w e ge t ou r fundin g from . S o Z tryt o ge t ou t o f th e buildin g - - I wan t everybodyou t o f th e buildin g byfive.

I f w e g o tomorro ww e wil l reconven e a t nine . So , thin k abou t tha t i n term s o f witnesse s i f yo u ge t t o a comfortabl e

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### plac e aroun d10:1 5 o r 10:3 0 wit hyou r vjitness . 1 use dt o tr ycase s i nfron t o f judge s wh o a t 10:3 0 woul dge t up wal k of f th e 4 bench , eve ni f yo u wer e i nth e middl e o f a 5 sentence . I don' t lik e t o d o that . 6 So , i f yo u can , finda comfortabl e 7 plac e t o break . Anothe r thing . T wan t bot h 8 counse l - - i s i t Dr . Selig ? 9 DR . SELIG : Yes . 1 0 JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , I wan t Dr . 1 1 Seli g an dMr . Rale yt o g o throug hal l o f th e 1 2 exhibits . I don' t wan t anypersonal 1 3 information . Everythin g tha t w e d o goe s o n 1 4 th e internet . 1 5 Th e transcrip t wil l g o o nth e 1 6 internet , th e exhibit s wil l g o o nth e 1 7 internet . So , Doctor , mak e sur e tha t al l o f 1 8 you r persona l identifyin g informatio ni s 1 9 remove dfro mexhibits , date s o f birth , hom e 2 0 phon e numbers , hom e addresses . 2 1 I hav e a blac k magi c marker , whic h 2 2 I brin g fo r thi s purpose . So , socia l securit y

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### 9

1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 numbers , date s o f birth , hom e addresses , hom e

phon e numbers .

Whe nth e witnesse s testify , i f i t i s necessar yt o pu t a naddres s in , us e a busines s address , okay ?

Becaus e everythin g goe s o nth e interne t an dbecaus e o f th e natur e o f vv^ha t w e d o a s a department , I jus t don' t fee l tha t informatio nbelong s i nth e record .

So , andI'l l als o invit e yo u t o loo k a t V7hat' s bee npreviousl yfile dand , i f ther e i s somethin g ther e tha t shoul db e redacted , le t m e kno wan dI wil l hav e Ms . Matthew s pul l the mou t o f DMS , redac t th e informatio nan dreinser t it .

Yo u know , w e liv e i na unfortunately , w e liv e i na tim e tha t we'v e go t t o b e carefu l abou t thos e things . But , d o w e hav e anypreliminar ymatters ?

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor , w e do . W e hav e quit e a fe wwe' dlik e t o g o throug hi f possible , i f that' s al l right .

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1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 

### 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . MR . RALE Y: First , I ' d1 ik e t o star t wit hcertai nadmission s tha t Responden t ha s mad e i nth e cours e o f th e filing s durin g i nthi s case.

JUDG E GOODWIN : Ar e the vunde r oath ? MR . RALEY : The yar e - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : O r ar e the yjus t answer s t o pleadings ?

MR . RALEY : Answer s t o pleadings . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , whydon' t w e jus t cove r that . Dr . Seli g i s pr o s e s o th e easies t wa yt o d o tha t - - yo u an dI coul dd o i t legally . Bu t I thin k i t woul db e easier , procedurally , jus t t o cove r tha t a s w e g o through . MR . RALEY : Okay . Then , You r Honor , i f yo u woul dtak e judicia l notic e o f certai nregulation s an d- -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Le t m e - - Sco t t

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### 9

1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Morriso nan dI use dt o g o aroun d- - Scott , wh o

i s no wa Judge . I wil l tak e judicia l notic e o f anyregs , regulations , statutes , anythin g tha t i s withi nth e definitio no f judicia l
no t ice . An dth e reaso nI d o that . Doctor , i s th e FA

Aregulation s tendt o b e tw o t o thre e inche s thick . An dI hav e severa l copie s o f the mandthe yfil l u p drawers . S o i t i s easie r t o tak e judicia l notic e an dthe ndownloa di t of f th e internet . So , a t th e appropriat e tim e I wil l tak e judicia l notice . A s t o exhibits , I' mno t wedde dt o anyprocedur e o nexhibits , a s lon g a s yo u don' t us e th e identica l numbers .

I prefe r tha t yo u on e o f yo u us e th e alphabet , th e othe r numbers . I f yo u bot h u s eth e alphabe t the nComplainan t shoul dbu t a C i nfron t o f i t an dDr . Seli g shoul dpu t a n Ri nfron t o f it .

.A t th e endo f th e hearin g I wil l kee p al l o f th e exhibits . Fo r th e Cour t

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### 1 0

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 9 

### Reporter , I wil l kee p al l o f th e exhibit s an d

transmi t them . Anothe r rul e tha t I hav e i s - - t o th e Cour t Reporte r - - yo u know , w e tendt o spea k i nou r ownlanguage .

I f yo u hea r somethin g tha t yo u don' t - - yo u wan t i t spelled , jus t rais e you r hand . That' s everybody' s cu e t o sto p a t a n appropriat e place , tur nt o th e Cour t Reporte r an dsay , that' s spelle dthi s way .

Tha t vja

ysh e doesn ' t - - a t 8:3 0 tonigh t whe nshe' s goin g ove r th e transcrip t -

- tea r he r hai r ou t tryin g t o figur e ou t wha t i t i s w e al l said .

And , Mr . Raley , a s yo u know , whe n yo u g o throug hth e hearing , pleas e don' t tal k ove r eac hother . It' s har denoug hfo r he r t o recor dchi s withou t havin g thre e o f u s talkin g a t th e sam e t ime .

I' msur e you'v e ha da fe wo f those . Anyothe r preliminar ymatters , Mr . Raley ? MR . RALEY : Alon g th e judicia l

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 7: > notic e side , You r Honor , I jus t wante dt o b e

clea r abou t certai nrul e making .

JUDG E GOODWIW : Sure . MR . RALEY : Th e Federa l Registe r entrie s fo r 200 4 an d2009 , whic har e th e rul e makin g fo r th e par t 121 , appendixe s I an dJ . An dthe ni n200 9 th e recodificatio no f appendixe s I an dJ int o par t 120 .

I jus t as k tha t yo u tak e judicia l notic e o f thos e Federa l Registe r provisions . 1 ca ngiv e yo u th e citations .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , let' s - - MR . RALEY : I hav e copie s a s well . (Pause. } JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t I' mdoing , Doctor , i s I mak e a spreadshee t o f al l th e exhibit s which , whe nMs . Matthews.put s the m int o th e recor dther e wil l b e a spreadshee t indicatin g mycaptio nfo r whateve r th e exhibi t is , whethe r i t i s identifie dfo r th e recor do r whethe r it' s entere dfo r th e record .

S o giv e m e a secon dt o se t tha t

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9

2 1

? ? up COUR T REPORTER : Mr . Raley , i f yo u

ar e goin g t o b e talkin g mostl yca nyo u pul l th e microphon e close r t o you ?

MR . RALEY : Yes , o f course . COUR T REPORTER : Than k you . MR . RALEY : N o problem . (Pause. ) JUDG E GQOU\<ill<^ : And , Doctor , on e
o f th e reason s tha t I tak e judicia l notic e i s th e FAAregulation s chang e wit hsom e frequency . B ytakin g judicia l notic e wha t I' m tellin g myla wcler k i s t o loo k a t th e regulation s tha t wer e i neffec t a t th e tim e
an dth e dat e o f whateve r th e inciden t is .

I d o case s tha t ma yb e si xmonth s eld , mayb e si xyear s old . And , withi ntha t si xyea r span , th e regulation s frequentl y change . S o , whil e FAACounse l i s alway s diligen t i ntryin g t o giv e u s th e cop yo f th e

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5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 regs , b ytakin g judicia l notice , I' mtakin g

judicia l notic e o f th e reg s i neffec t a t th e tim e o f whateve r th e inciden t i s o r - - an d als o th e cas e law .

Th e othe r thin g tha t happen s i s
cas e la wma ychange . So , ever yonc e i na whil e I actuall yge t reversed .

DR . SELIG : Wha t yea r ar e w e usin g for ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Whateve r th e dat e
o f th e allegatio n- - th e Complain t give s a dat e s o tha t woul db e th e date .

DR . SELIG : Well , bu t th e infractio noccurre dJul y2008 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : The nthat ' s th e
re g tha t I woul dapply .

DR . SELIG : Okay . JUDG E GOODWI N: Oka y. Wha t I ' m goin g t o invit e yo u t o do , Mr . Raley , i s whe n yo u ge t t o tha t poin t i nyou r presentatio n v.'her e yo u ge t t o th e reg , jus t remin dm e again . I'l l mak e thos e a join t exhibit .

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### 1 4

2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 That' s essentiall yth e wa yI tel l

m yla wclerk . S o yo u wan t m e t o tak e judicia l notic e o f - - hol do na minute .

MR . RALEY : You r Honor , tha t migh t jus t b e a nissu e i ntha t par t o f thi s proceedin g i s goin g t o b e th e evidentiar y matters . JUDG E GOODWIN : Right .

MR . RALEY : 1 1 ma ya s we l 1 b e note di nth e post-hearin g brie f a s par t o f th e argument , wit hregar dt o th e change .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Al l right . Th e othe r thin g I do , Doctor , i s I use dt o d o benc hdecisions . I foun dtha t wheneve r I di d
a benc hdecisio nI didn' t giv e th e cas e th e insigh t tha t I shoul dhav e give nit .

So , wha t we'l l d o her e i s we'r e goin g t o tak e evidenc e andwe'1 1 tak e testimony . Thi s nic e youn g ladywil l typ e u p th e transcript . I t wil l b e availabl e t o th e FA Ai nabou t thre e weeks , mayb e four .

But , th e wa yi t work s i s sh e send s

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1
9 9 

### i c C o th e cour t reportin g servic e w e

contracte dwith , whic hi s i nWashington , D.C . The ythe ndelive r t o FA Aheadquarters . Mr . Rale yma yno t se e th e transcrip t fo r v/eeks t o months , becaus e that' s th e wayth e Governmen t works . Wha t I' mgoin g t o as k yo u t o do , Mr . Raley , i s whe nyo u ge t th e transcript , woul dyo u pleas e le t Dr . Seli g kno wtha t yo u hav e th e transcript ?

An da t tha t poin t I' mgoin g t o as k th e tw o o f yo u t o tryt o agre e o na briefin g schedule . Th e FA Awil l brie f firs t . Tw o week s late r Dr . Seli g ca nbrie f i f h e want s to . Yo u don ' t hav e t o brie f i f yo u don ' t wan t to , Doctor . Then , i f Dr . Seli g provide s a brie f then , Mr . Raley , yo u hav e a wee k afte r tha t t o respond .

An dthat' s th e wa yth e rule s woul d work . So , i f onc e you'v e agree do nth e scheduling , Mr . Raley , i f yo u wil l prepar e a n orde r an dforwar di t t o Mr . Libowitz , I wil l

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### 1 6

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 sig nit . 

### I f yo u can' t agree , the njus t le t

m e kno wwha t th e transcrip t date s are . I wil l probabl yinstitut e a briefin g schedul e tha t wil l commenc e fou r week s afte r everybod yha s go t th e transcript .

And , o f cours e Doctor , assumin g tha t w e ar e finishe dwit hth e hearin g toda yo r tomorrov/ , I woul dexpec t th e exhibit s t o b e o n th e interne t probabl yabou t th e en do f nex t week . Wha t Ms . Matthew s does , whe nsh e get s m yexhibits , sh e goe s throug han dmake s copie s fo r th e offic e an dwalk s i t dow nt o docketing . So , she' s bee nsic k thi s week .

Tha t woul db e th e onl yreaso nth e exhibit s woul dno t b e i nDM S byth e en do f
nex t week . An dtha t applie s t o bot hparties . Jus t g o t o regulations.go van dyo u typ e i nth e DM S number , whic hi s 2010-1211 .

I usuall ypu t th e FA Ai nfron t o f i t becaus e o f ther e ar e federa l moto r carrie r

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 cases , ther e ar e OS D cases , th e regulation s

ar e there . Wliat wil l happe ni s yo u wil l ge t th e entir e docket .

An dyo u jus t scrol l dow nt o wher e th e exhibit s are . So , Mr . Raley , I' mgoin g t o pu t th e burde no nyo u t o se t up , yo u know , attemp t t o se t u p a briefin g schedule .

T f yo u can' t jus t le t m e kno wan d I'l l issu e a norder .

MR . RALEY : Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : I f somethin g come s up , wit heithe r on e o f you , onc e I d o th e schedulin g order , i f somethin g come s up , ther e i s a - - yo u en dwit ha bi g trial , Mr . Raley , Doctor , yo u en du p wit ha bi g anythin g associate dwit hpractice , tal k wit heac h other . I f yo u ca nagre e o na schedul e le t

m e know . I f not , le t m e kno wyo u can' t agre e
an dI'l l revie wwha t you r reques t is . I wan t th e tvy

o o f yo u t o hav e th e opportunit yt o brie f th e issues .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 3 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 An dthe nonc eth e brief s ar e i nw e

wil l conside r al l o f th e evidence , al l o f th e testimony , a s wel la s you r argument s an dthe n I'l l issu e a decisio na s appropriate .

Mr . Raley , okay , I assum e yo u wan t

m e t o tak e judicia l notic e o f th e sanctio n tables ? MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor , 2153B . JUDG E GOODWIN : Twenty-one , 53B , a s o f 200 3 I thin k yo u said , Doctor , i s tha t right ? Withou t lookin g a t th e - -

DR . SELIG : Wait , ca nI ge t a cop y o f that ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes . Wha t els e di dyo u wan t m e t o tak e judicia l notic e of , Mr . Raley ? MR . RALEY : On e second . A s wel l

a s - - i npreviou s filing s we'v e cite dtw o o f th e D e Josep hinterpretatio nletter , whic hi s foun do nWes t Law .

It' s a FAAinterpretatio no f th e

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4 S 5 7 3 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 dru g an dalcoho l testin g regulation s a s the y

relat e t o par t 13 5 operators .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' mgoin g t o mak e
sur e tha t Dr . Seli g ha s copie s o f that .

MR . RALEY : H e ha s copie s o f that . JUDG E GOODWIN : I f yo u coul djus t chec k durin g th e brea k an dmak e sure . Sometime s th e pr o s e Respondents , the ydon' t knov ; wha t the yhave .

MR . RALEY : Okay .

else ? JUDG E GOODWIN : And , anythin g

MR . RALEY : Wel l JUDG E GOODWIN : A s w e g o throug h th e testimon y- - a s yo u g o throug hyou r presentation , i f ther e ar e othe r thing s yo u v;ant m e t o tak e judicia l notic e of , jus t dra w

m yattentio nt o the mt o tak e a loo k at .

MR . RALEY : Ther e i s on e othe r ite m I' djus t lik e t o addres s her e i f possible . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sure .

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 I B 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . RALEY : Dr . Selig , Responden t

ha s provide da nemai l i nnumerou s filing s tha t

w e woul dlik e t o hav e entere dint o th e recor d

a s a nexhibi t i nevidence .

It' s a nemai l fro mAi r Method s t o th e - - tha t wa s sen t alon g th e wa ya s t o Dr . Selig . JUDG E GOODWIN : Proffe r th e exhibi t a t th e appropriat e tim e an dwe'l l g o fro m there . MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t j us t Pleading s ar e jus t pleadings .

MR . RALEY : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : The yar e no t unde r oath . I don' t giv e Complainant' s answers , mocion s o r anythin g els e muc hweigh t i f the y
ar e no t unde r oath . An yothe r preliminar y matters ? MR . RALEY : I believ e tha t shoul d

cove r it , You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : D o yo u wan t t o

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 ? 

### rul e o nwitnesses ? MR . RALEY : I' msorry . You r Honor ? JUDG E GOODWIN : D o yo u wan t t o rul e o nwitnesses ? Dr . Selig , a rul e o n witnesse s - - I' mlicense di nMaryland , that' s a Marylan dterm .

But , essentially , rul e o n witnesse s i s sequesterin g th e witnesse s durin g th e testimony . Eac hsid e i s allowe dt o hav e wha t I cal l a technica l exper t tha t sit s a t th e tabl e tha t ma yo r ma yno t testify .

Othe r witnesse s tha t ma yo r ma y no t testif ydon' t necessaril yhav e th e righ t t o b e i nth e cour t room . Th e reaso nbein g yo u don' t wan t witnesse s sittin g her e listenin g t o wha t - ~ yo u know ?

It' s no t lik e Perr yMason , i f you've ' go t a Perr yMaso nthing , somebod y testifie s the ysawsomebodyd o i t an dth e witnes s i s sittin g listenin g t o th e testimon y tha t ca ninfluenc e thei r testimony .

So , th e purpos e o f th e rul e o n

{202 ) 234-443 3 

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4 5 6 7 3 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 secfues t ra t io ni s t o hav e witnesse s no t b e i n

th e courtroo mwhil e th e hearin g i s takin g place . It' s u p t o yo u tw o i f yo u wan t it .

Th e Cour t doesn' t impos e it . On e instructio nI' mgoin g t o giv e t o al l th e witnesse s i s the yar e no t t o discus s thei r testimon ywit hanybod yprio r t o conclusio no f hearing . So , yo u know , the ycan' t g o u p an d say , shoul dI sa ythis , shoul dI sa ythat ? Obviousl yyo u ca ntal k t o - - Mr . Rale yca n tal k t o hi s witnesses .

Bu t h e can' t tel l the mwha t the y shoul do r shoul dno t sa yo r anythin g else . S o
a s t o th e rul e o nwitnesses , Counsel . An y position ? MR . RALEY : W e hav e n o position .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry ? MR . RALEY : N o position . You r Honor . I f yo u requir e sequestratio n- -

o^UDG E GOODV^IN : I don' t requir e i t .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 f in e . MR . RALEY : Okay . The nw e ar e

JUDG E GOODWIN : -Dr . Selig ? DR . SELIG : I reques t it . JUDG E GOODWIN : Pardo nme ? DR . SELIG : I woul dlik e t o reques t i t JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . The nwha t we'l l d o i s i f - - unles s - - wh o i s you r technica l expert ?

MR . RALEY : Ms . Am yFranke l wil l b e ou r technica l expert , You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Sh e wil l b e allowe dt o remai ni nth e room . Th e othe r tw o witnesse s I' mgoin g t o as k t o - - I' msur e there' s a waitin g are a here , thoug hT don' t kno wwher e i t is .

An dthe nwe'l l allo wyo u t o retriev e the ma t th e poin t i ntim e o f thei r tes t imony . MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor . JUDG EGOODWIN ; Let' s g o of f th e

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### 2 4

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 7 recor dfo r jus t a minut e t o giv e yo u a chanc e

t o - - th e tw o peopl e o nth e bench , wil l the y b e testifying ?

MR . RALEY : No , M s . Caro ni s - - I' msorry , bac k here ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes . MR . RALEY : Mr . Barnett e i s a possibl e rebutta l witness . An dh e serve s fo r rebutta l only . Ms . Lozad o wil l b e ou r firs t witness . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okav . The nth e gentlema nshoul dprobabl ywai t outsid e becaus e he' s a potentia l witness . You r technica l exper t ca nstay .

MR . RALEY : Ms . Frankel . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . S o wha t we'r e goin g t o d o i s we'r e goin g t o g o of f th e recor dfo r abou t tw o minute s an dallo wyo u t o tel l th e witnesse s what' s goin g on .

I'l l com e bac k o nan dthe n wher e d o yo u wan t th e witness ?

COUR T REPORTER : It' s fin e righ t

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 ove r there . JUDG E GOODWIN : I gues s th e

witnes s sit s ove r there . Whe nI com e bac k o n t h ebenc hhav eth e witnes s u p her ean dI wil l

swea r the m

in . MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor . DR . SELIG : I f I ma ypleas e th e Court . JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry ?

DR . SELIG : I f I ma ypleas e th e Court , o nth e subjec t o f witnesses . Ms . Franke l wa s neve r entere da s a - - ther e wa s n o informatio ngive nabou t Ms . Frankel . S o I objec t t o he r givin g an ykin do f testimony .

COUR T REPORTER : Ar e w e o nth e record ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Whe nw e com e bac k

o nth e record .

COUR T REPORTER : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : We ' r e of f th e record . (Whereupon , th e above-entitle d

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wen t bac k o nth e recor da t 9:3 5 a.m .

JUDG E GOODWIN : O nth e recor d Whereupon , VIRGINI ALOZAD A 2 6

6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 5 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 

### l a 1 9 2 0 2 I 9 9 wa s calle da s a witnes s b yCounse l fo r th e

Complainan t and , afte r havin g bee ndul ysworn , wa s examine dan dtestifie da s follows :

JUDG E GOODWIN : Pleas e b e seated . Stat e you r ful l nam e fo r th e recor dan dspel l you r firs t an dlas t name .

DR . SELIG : You r Honor , a s I - - TH E WITNESS : Virgini a Lozad a - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Hol don . Hol don . Th e reaso nbein g - - I kno wthi s sound s a littl e arcan e - - sh e hear s everything . S o i f I' mtalkin g an dyou'r e talkin g it' s lik e bot h

o f you r kid s talkin g t o yo u a t th e sam e time .

O r i nm ycas e you r mothe r an dyou r wif e talkin g t o yo u a t th e sam e time .

DR . SELIG : I understand . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okav . An dI' mno t

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 I S 2 0 2 1
9 9 tryin g t o b e technical . Bu t I'v e don e enoug h

hearing s t o kno wtha t i t jus t drive s he r crazy . That ' s wh ysh e ha s gra yhair . Yo u reall ythin k it' s blonde , bu t it' s gra yhai r fro m peopl e tha t tal k ove r on eanother .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry . Spel l you r firs t an dlas t name .

TH E WITNESS : Virgini a Lozada , V I-R-G-I-N-I- AL-0-Z-A-D-A .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I t i s V , a s i n Victor ? TH E WITNESS ; L-O-Z , a s i nzebr a -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Z , okay . TH E WITNESS : A-D-A . JUDG E GOODWIN : Counsel ? MR . RALEY : Jus t on e quic k note , You r Honor . Jus t i norde r t o expedit e th e entr yo f exhibits , I previousl ymarke dou r exhibit s a s Adas h- -

JUDG E GOODWIN : And , a s lon g a s - - Doctor , th e protoco l i s normall yi nth e cours e

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4 5 S 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 o f a tria l Counse l woul dgiv e out , proffe r a n

exhibic , han dyo u a cop yan dapproac han dgiv e

m e a copy . Wha t som e lawyer s d o i s giv e yo u a packe t o f al l th e exhibit s the yar e goin g t o introduce , yo u know ,

DR . SELIG : You r Honor , thi s forma t - - isn' t ther e an ywa yw e coul dd o th e opening s first ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry , I forgo t t o d o that . Mr . Raley , d o yo u hav e a n opening ? MR . RALEY : I d o hav e a nopening , You r Honor , I woul dlik e t o - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , g o ahead . MR . RALEY : You r Honor , th e Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio nwil l demonstrate , throug hth e evidenc e an d testimon ypresented , tha t Respondent , M& R Helicopters , Incorporate dviolate dth e Federa l Aviatio nregulation s whe ni t faile dt o ensur e tha t a mechani c wh o performe dwor k o nit s

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 aircraf t v;a s covere dunde r rando mdru g an d alcoho l testin g program s a s require dunde r th e regulation s containe di n1 4 CF Rpar t 121 , appendice s I an dJ , whic hhav e sinc e bee n recodifie da s 1 4 CF Rpar t 120 .

'Responden t wa s selecte dfo r a n inspectio no f it s com.plianc e wit hDO T require d dru g an dalcoho l testin g regulations . Durin g thi s inspectio ni t wa s discovere dtha t wor k performe do nRespondent' s aircraft , whic hwa s liste do nRespondent' s par t 1 3 5 Operatio n Specifications , b ya nemploye e wh o wa s no t

covere db yeithe r Respondent' s dru g o r alcoho l program s o r the ; employee' s ow ndru g o r alcoho l programs . Ms . Lozada , th e Easter nCente r Manage r fo r Complianc e an dEnforcement , wil l testif ythat , a s a par t 11 9 certificat e holde r wic hoperation s specification s authorizin g par t 1 3 5 operations , Responden t wa s require d t o maintai nDO T require ddru g an dalcoho l testin g program .

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### 3 0 An dtha t Responden t certifie di n 2 it s operation s specification s tha t i t woul d 3 compl ywit hth e DO T require ddru g an dalcoho l 4 testin g regulations . 5 Ms . Lozad a wil l testif ytha t 5 durin g a ninspectio no f Respondent' s DO T 7 require ddru g andalcoho l testin g programs , a n 8 FA

Ainspecto r discovere dtha t Responden t 9 employe dMr . Edwar dBake r t o perfor m 1 0 maintenanc e o na naircraf t liste do n 1 1 Respondent' s operation s specifications . 1 2 An dtha t Mr . Bake r wa s o nneithe r 1 3 Respondent' s no r hi s ow ndru g testin g progra m 1 4 - - dru g o r alcoho l testin g program . 1 5 Ms . Lozad a wil l als o testif ytha t 1 6 record s obtained , durin g th e inspection , 1 7 indicate dtha t Responden t ha dconducte dpar t 1 8 1 3 5 flight s wit hth e helicopte r whic hwa s 1 9 liste do nRespondent' s o p specs . 2 0 Am yFrankel , Fiel dOperation s 

### 2 1 Branc hManager , Offic e o f Aerospac e Medicine , 2 2 Federa l Aviatio nAdministration , wil l testif y

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6 7 3 3 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 investigativ e repor t an dnote dtha t



### Respondent' s operatio nspedfication s subjecte di t t o complyin g wit hth e DO T require ddru g an dalcoho l testin g regulation s .

An dtha t Responden t wa s no t i n complianc e wit hthos e regulation s becaus e Mr . Bake r wa s no t subjec t t o rando mdru g an d alcoho l testin g unde r Respondent' s progra mo r hi s ownprogram , whe nh e performe dsafety

sensitiv^ e wor k fo r Responden t o nit s aircraft .

Sh e wil l testif ytha t Responden t ha da nactiv e par t 11 9 certificat e wit h operation s specification s authorizin g par t 13 5 operations , becaus e -Responden t ha dcommence d conductin g par t 13 5 flights , an dwa s therefor e recjuiredt o adher e t o th e dru g an dalcoho l testin g regulation s i naccordanc e wit hth e par t 13 5 requirements .

Sh e wil l als o testif ytha t sh e reviewe dth e violation s an drecommende dth e sanctio ni naccordanc e wit hFA Aorde r 215 3 (b ) ,

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1

o ? Base do nthes e violations , a t th e

clos e o f thi s hearin g th e actin g administrato r wil l as k tha t yo u uphol dth e civi l penalt yo f 4,40 0 dollar s a s propose di nth e secon d amende dcomplaint . Than k you .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Than k you . Doctor , di dyo u wan t t o d o a nopenin g no wo r
ar e yo u goin g t o reserve ?

DR . SELIG : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u hav e th e righ t t o argu e now . Yo u als o hav e a righ t t o wai t initi l you r par t o f th e case .

Now , arguin g i s argument , i t i s
no t th e tim. e t o presen t evidence , al l right ?

DR . SELIG : I wante dt o - - woul d i t b e easie r fo r m e t o presen t th e evidenc e alon g wit hmyopening ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , a nopenin g statemen t i s th e tim e yo u giv e a novervie wo f you r case . Th e tim e t o presen t exhibit s i s

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 7 onc e th e FAArests . Okay ? DR . SELIG: ' Al l right . JUDG E GOODWIN : And , I kno wI

soun dredundan t . Bu t yo u hav e a ver ysof t voice . S o pleas e don' t tak e i t personall yi f I as k yo u t o spea k up .

DR . SELIG : I - - JUDG E GOODWIN : I d o th e sam e thin g t o m ywife .

DR . SELIG : I t wil l ge t loude r an d faster . JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . Than k you , please . S o d o yo u wan t t o giv e you r openin g no wo r yo u wan t t o reserve ?

DR . SELIG : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . DR . SELIG : Th e subjec t citatio n arise s a s a hypothetica l violatio no f par t 12 1 I an dJ o f th e Dru g an dAlcoho l Abatemen t regulation s tha t hav e bee na movin g target , subsequentl yrevise dtw o times , wer e locate d

a t variou s link s o nunreference dwebsite s

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### 3 4

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 0 7 

### durin g a tim e whe nth e Departmen t o f

Transporta t io nwa s attemptin g t o affec t change s t o improv e publi c safet yan dlesse n th e administrativ e burden s o nth e regulate d public . I t wa s als o durin g th e tim e whe n th e FA

Awa s developin g th e informatio n managemen t system . M& RHelicopter s go t caugh t i nthi s crossfir e o f th e FA Arulin g ou t significan t amendment s t o thes e regulation s withou t institutin g a reasonabl e notificatio n proces s t o confir msuc hchange s eve r occurre d
o r confir mdiscovery , contrar yt o notificatio n procedure s require dfo r al l othe r part s o f th e complianc e statemen t an dth e operationa l specifications .

Thi s allege dviolate dregulatio n wa s neve r listed , require dt o b e signe dof f afte r change s occurre dwithi nth e operatio n specification s an dth e complianc e statemen t by th e Respondent .

Thez~e wer e neve r an ymethod s o f

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### 3 5

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 5 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 complianc e reference di ncomplianc e statemen t

o r th e operatio nspecifications .

Th e subjec t citatio nwa s launche d whe nMs . Latony a William s rushe dt o judgemen t vyithout givin g prope r notic e t o remedyo r cure , bu t wen t directl yt o issu e a citatio n base dsolel yo nconjectur e tha t A& P mechani c Edwar dBake r wa s no t o nanyapprove ddru g an d alcoho l abatemen t progra mwhe nh e performe d safety-sensitiv e function s accordin g t o inspecto r statemen t 1-0 9 whic hI hav e here , whic hbasicall ysay s tha t - -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , we'1 1 ge t int o th e evidenc e a t th e prope r time .

DR . SELIG : Okay . Ms . Williams ' inaccurat e misnome r wa s soo ndisprove dwhe ni t wa s show ntha t Mr . Bake r wa s alway s an d continuousl yo na progra munde r hi s primar y full

- tim e employe r Ai r Method s Corporation .

Ms . William s claime dtha t Mr . Bake r wa s considere da nemploye e o f M& R

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### 3 6

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Helicopter s when , i nfact , h e onl yworke d

freelanc e tw o day s ou t o f ever ytw o yea r perio deve nthoug hh e wa s employe dful l tim e fo r Ai r Method s Corporation .

Th ene wregulation , tha t n o on e wa s informe dof , require dMr . Bake r t o b e o n redundan t dru g andalcoho l program s fo r Ai r Method s andM& RHelicopters .

Th e hypothetica l citatio nwa s aggressivel ypursue ddespit e tha t M& R Helicopter s ha dsuspende dit s operations , wa s shu t dow nsinc e Jun e o f 200 7 .

Prio r t o th e citation , th e cite d violatio no f Jul y2009 , M& Rwa s undeniabl y non-operational . Th e financial s demonstrate d tha t th e companywa s operatin g a t a loss , underwen t a corporat e nam e chang e t o clos e it s ban k accounts , wa s unauthorize dt o perfor m par t 1 3 5 flight s becaus e ther e wa s n o certifie dpilo t tw o year s prio r t o th e cite d violatio nperiod , an dha s no t bee noperationa l since .

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### 3 7

4 B 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 Th e frivolou s citatio nwa s

aggressivel ypursue ddespit e it s operationa l moratoriu mo f M&R' s operation s an dbusines s functions . A s a resul t o f th e restructuring , th e nam e chang e i nyea r 200 8 - - an dI hav e an exhibi t fo r tha t a s wel l - - th e operational specification s o r complianc e statement s wer e no t curren t an dneede dt o b e revise dan d update dt o affec t thes e changes .

Th e safet ysectio nfunctio no f Jul y24 , 2008 , a mai nroto r trac k an dbalanc e tha t wa s cite dfo r violatio nwa s redon e an d repeate do nMr . Baker , whe nMr . Bake r wa s o n M&R' s dru g progra mandn o flight s v;er e flown i nth e interim .

S o ther e wa s n o ris k t o th e public . Confirmin g .that n o operation s wer e performed , th e companyoperate da t a financia l los s sinc e 2006 , a s disclose dfro mth e company' s taxreturns , whic hwer e submitted .

M5: RHelicopter s o nJul y21st , 200 9

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### 6

7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1

7 9 

### wa s audite db yFA Aofficer s Latony aWilliam s an dKimberle yPe wfo r th e initia l schedule d inspectio na t th e join t offic e o f Lifelin e Cardiolog yandMSc RHelicopters . O nJul y23rd , 200 9 Ms . William s returne dalon e t o th e inspectio no f M&R' s dru g records . Ms . William s wa s agitate ddurin g tha t non-accompanie dvisit .

An dhe r behavio r wa s offensiv e and Linprofessiona l throughou t th e inspectio nan d a nAVRcustome r complain t wa s filed , i ntha t regard . Ms . William s allege dtha t th e Responden t wa s non-complian t whe ni nfac t ther e wer e n o safet yissue s involved , pattern s o f intentiona l non-complianc e sinc e th e companysuspende doperation s tw o year s prio r andexperiencin g a negativ e cas hflow .

Ms . William s initiall yassume d tha t Mr . Bake r wa s no t covere db yanyFA

Adru g testin g progra mandrefuse dt o deviat e fro m tha t fact .

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### 3 9

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 Ms . William s als o disclose dtha t

cher e wa s a polic ychang e tha t occurre di n Februar yo f 200 4 requirin g al l A& P mechanic s t o b e o na companyspecifi c dru g an dalcoho l program . Ms . William s di dno t provid e training , not e th e locatio no f specifi c detail s referencin g thi s polic ychange , complianc e procedures , andnotificatio nsyste m tha t neede dt o b e pu t i nplace , simila r t o th e FA Aoperation s maintenanc e an daviatio n protocols . M s . Wil l iam s ha dth e optio nt o trai nth e Responden t t o method s o f complianc e t o th e ne wregulation , issu e a lette r o f correctio no r a lette r o f warning .

But , instead , sh e rushe drigh t t o a citation . Thes e othe r tw o prio r procedure s ar e liste di nth e audi t procedure s tha t sh e wa s t o follow .

Ayea r later , o nJul y23rd , Responden t wa s serve dwit ha notic e o f

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 propose dcivi l penalt ycitin g a fin e o f 5,40 0

dollar s fro m

M s . Floraponto , despit e th e compan ywa s alread yi nmoratoriu msinc e Jun e 2007 , a nam e change r occurre di n200 8 an dth e complianc e statemen t wa s no t current , makin g th e certificat e essentiall yinactive .

O nAugus t 6t hResponden t sen t a lette r t o Ms . Florapont o detailin g th e statement s o f fact , evidenc e an dreques t fo r a ninforma l hearing . O nOctobe r 1s t th e informa l hearin g conferenc e wa s hel dbefor e manage r - - Mr . Franke l - - I don' t kno wi f tha t

wa s Am yFrankel .

I t wa s you , oh . The ytol dm e i t

wa s Mr . Frankel . Mr . Rale yan dhi s assistan t Ms . Floraponto . O nOctobe r 21st , 201 0 Responden t wa s serve dwit hfina l notic e o f propose dpenalt yfo r a fin e o f 5,40 0 dollars , an dpresente dwit ha nincomplet e redacte d copie s o f enforcemen t investigatio nreport .

I t di dno t includ e update d informatio nrequeste db yFA AInspecto r Che t

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### 4 1

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Stevenso no r th e confirmatio no f employmen t by

Ai r Method s andtha t Mr . Bake r wa s constantl y enrolle di na dru g an dalcoho l program .

Th e Complain t wa s amende dtwice . Ms . Florapont o wa s mad e awar e o f a statut e o f limitation s issu e andth e complain t wa s the n recra f te dfro mNovembe r 2nd , 200 7 t o Jul y 24th , 200 8 the nfallin g on e da ywithi nth e statut e o f limitations .

O nDecembe r 10th , 201 0 a namende d complain t reduce dth e fin e t o 4,40 0 dollars . O nMarc h25th , 201 1 a pre-tria l teleconferenc e wa s hel dwit hChie f Administrativ e Judg e Ronne yYoder .

Th e followin g ke ypoint s wer e mad e a t tha t - - MR . RALEY : Objection .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig ? DR . SELIG : Yes ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Th e Cour t won' t conside r anydiscussion s pursuan t t o settlemen t conferences . So , whethe r yo u di d

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 o r di dno t hav e a pre-hearin g conferenc e wit h

anybod yo r i f yo u ha da settlemen t conferenc e wit hth e FAA , unde r numerou s rule s an dcas e la wth e Cour t won' t conside r it . S o I don' t

wan t t o hea r abou t that .

DR . SELIG : I' monl yquotin g th e transcript , that' s all .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I don' t care . I don' t wan t t o hea r abou t it . It' s no t prope r evidenc e befor e th e Court . Okay ?

Now , you'v e sai dtha t ther e wa s a pre-hearin g conference . Let' s ge t o nt o th e
nex t issue . DR . SELIG : Ca nI - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Th e sam e woul d appl yt o th e FA.z^ .

DR . SELIG : Okay , s o ca nI mentio n point s i ntha t transcript ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : N o . Th e reaso n is , th e cas e la wi s clear . I f ther e i s a pre hearin g settlemen t conferenc e o r a settlemen t conferenc e tha t i s no t prope r evidenc e befor e

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### 4 3

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### a court . An dth e reason , th e philosoph y

behin dtha t i s th e lawencourage s partie s t o tryt o resolv e cases . And , i f evidenc e an d testimonypresente da t a pre-hearin g conferenc e o r a settlemen t conferenc e wer e presente di na subsequen t trial , i t woul dhav e a chillin g effec t o nth e parties ' abilit yt o attemp t t o settl e something .

S o there' s hundred s o f case s o n th e point . Th e fac t tha t - - th e onl ythin g - - an dI' mno t goin g t o giv e anyweigh t t o th e fac t yo u di do r didn' t hav e , a pre-hearin g conference . S o let' s mov e o nt o th e nex t sub j ect . DR . SELIG : Okay . Myfirs t argumen t i s a statemen t b yComplainant , wa s tha t M& Ra t al l time s relevan t wa s authorize d t o conduc t par t 1 3 5 operation s unde r it s certificate .

That' s a majo r premis e an di t ha s com e up severa l times . Th e statemen t mad e b y

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### 4 4

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 2 the mi s manifestl yincorrec t an di nerror . I norde r t o b e authorize dt o conduc t o r fl yi noperation s severa l condition s mus t b e met .

First , th e operation s specification s an dcomplianc e statement s hav e t o b e update dwit hconfirmator ysignatures . Thi s wa s no t th e cas e wit hM&R , particularl y i nregar dt o th e dru g program .

Th e las t signe dof f statemen t wa s Januar y2004 . An dI hav e that , m y449- a shee t show s tha t th e agree dupo ndru g an dalcoho l regulation s wer e backdate dbefor e th e chang e i nth e regulation s occurre di nFebruar yo f 200 4 . Th e compan yals o underwen t th e corporatio nchang e makin g th e operation s specification s invalid . I norde r t o conduc t 13 5 operation s th e pilo t need s t o compl ywit h th e requirement s an dth e regulations .

Th e pilot , b yth e way , wa s me , You r Honor . Hav e th e experienc e level ,

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 underg o yearl yrecurrenc e training , mee t th e

insuranc e regulations , a s wel l a s underg o a yearl yora l an dfligh t examinatio nb ya nFAA examiner . Non e o f thes e procedure s wer e i n place . Therefore , M& Rwa s no t authorize dt o conduc t 13 5 operation s sinc e Jun e o f 2007 .

Responden t explaine dt o Ms . William s tha t MSL Rwa s unauthorize dt o perfor m thes e operation s du e t o huma nfactors , extenuatin g circumstance s impactin g th e singl e pilo t operator , suc ha s a hig hconflict , protracte ddivorce , custod ylitigation , liabilit yissues , alon g wit hth e responsibilitie s t o th e communit yo f hi s sol o privat e practic e cardiology , a s wel l a s th e inspecto r wa s unavailabl e t o perfor ma fligh t

exa m du e t o medica l leave .

M&LR ' S inspector , Mr . Alotta , subsequentl ytoo k earl yretirement . FA R 11 9 . 6 9 provide s a lon g lis t o f requirement s fo r operation s an dstate s tha t eac h

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4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 6 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 certificat e holde r mus t hav e sufficien t

qualifie dmanagemen t an dtechnica l personne l t o ensur e th e safet yo f it s operations .

Responden t coul dno t carr you t th e othe r function s i nth e compan ya s directo r o f operations , a s maintenanc e coordinator , fo r whic hh e bear s al l liabilities , lega l an d financial . Th e operation s inspecto r Fran k Alott a wa s awar e o f th e suspende doperatio no f M& Rb yhi s lette r o f Jun e 19 , 200 7 fo r no t havin g a p i lot .

An dtha t i s anothe r on e o f m y exhibits . Complainan t erre db yassertin g tha t exposur e an dliabilit yfo r a violatio ni s warrante dbase dsolel yo npossessin g a n operation s specification s an da liste d

cer t i ficate .

Wh yth e certificat e wa s n o liste d

a s inactiv e whe nth e FAAinspection s perso n didn' t know , wa s jus t a nerror , bu t occurre d i nth e proces s .

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5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Ho wcoul da noperatio nb e activ e

o r authorize di f i t wa s unabl e t o carr you t operation s becaus e o f n o pilot ? M& Rcease d unde r th e name , whic hwa s change dSeptembe r 200 8 . I hav e a nexhibi t fo r tha t throug h th e Departmen t o f Commerc e i nPennsylvani a tha t shoul dhav e rendere dth e complain t mute .

Al l financial s wer e restructure d
an dterminate dunde r th e M& Rname . Th e discussio ncam e up whe ni s actuall yth e issu e

- - wha t i s th e differenc e betwee noperator s no t engage di noperation s o r i ntheor y authorize dt o engag e i noperations , whic h bring s up th e matte r o f Davi dEberso ni nNort h Valle yHelicopters .

Th e Cour t rule dtha t violatio ni s invali dbase dpurel yo nth e mer e possessio no f
a certificat e tha t operation s neede dt o b e conducte ddurin g th e violatio nperio di norde r fo r a violatio nt o hav e merits .

Complainant' s flawe dargumen t i s


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4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 0 9 tha t no t performin g operation s prio r t o

commencin g dru g alcoho l progra mi s someho w differen t tha nno t conductin g operation s durin g a perio do f shu t dow no r suspensio n whe nth e Agenc ysa wth e violation , eve nthoug h th e concep t i s identical .

O ninspectio no f Mr . Eberson' s operatin g specifications , n o dru g progra mo f

an ykin dwa s eve r i nplac e eithe r b yth e primar yemploye r o r hi s own .

Th e cas e wa s stil l dismissed . Th e commonalit ybetwee nth e Eberso ncas e an dM&R ' s case , i s tha t n o operation s wer e conducte d durin g th e relevan t period , o r u p t o thi s day , therefor e n o ris k o r har mwa s presente dt o th e public . Th e primar ypremise , tha t initiate dth e violation , v;a s tha t Mr . Bake r
wa s no t o nan yprogram . Thi s wa s a fals e assLimptio nan dprove ntha t M&R , a t al l times , di dhav e it s ow ndru g program , implemente d tha t program , fo r thos e no t an yapprove d

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### 4 9

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 program , andi naccordanc e t o th e operational

specifications , an dmaintenanc e inspector' s knowledge , advice , andi ngoo dfaith .

Furthermore , regulatio n1 3 5.241 , make s referenc e t o fligh t cre wmembers , requirement s pertainin g t o operations , whic h mean s flights , unde r thi s part .

Again , M& Rwa s no t conductin g operations . Regulatio n135.255 , befor e i t wa s removed , alon g wit h135.25 1 - -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . Thi s i s al l argument .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I know . Doctor , yo u hav e a goo dargumen t bu t wha t yo u ar e doin g i s arguin g th e facts . Wha t I' mgoin g t o as k yo u t o d o i s t o tryt o confin e th e discussio nt o wha t yo u ar e doing .

I' mgoin g t o allo wyo u a littl e la t itude , bu t - -

DR . SELIG : Yes . I probabl yhav e anothe r seve nminutes . I s ther e anywa yI ca n jus t ge t thi s int o th e record ?

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### 5 0

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 9 

### JUDG E GOODWIN : I f yo u wan t t o

submi t it , tha t woul db e fine . Yo u ca nsubmi t i t a s a nexhibit , i f yo u want . O r yo u ca n mak e i t a par t o f you r - -

Wha t yo u ar e doin g i s arguin g th e law , bu t righ t no wther e i s n o evidence , ther e i s n o testim.ony , - -

DR . SELIG : Right . JUDG E GOODWIN : - - bu t ther e i s n o evidence , an dther e i s n o testimony , a s o f thi s minute , tha t i s whyw e ar e here .

Wha t yo u ar e tryin g t o d o i s argu e thing s tha t ar e no t i nevidenc e yet . Onc e i t i s i nevidence , tha t woul dprobabl yb e a n appropriat e brie f t o submit , arguin g wha t yo u thin k th e evidenc e shows .

I don ' t wan t t o tel l yo u ho wt o tryyou r case , an dI wan t t o giv e yo u th e opportunit yt o sayanythin g yo u wan t t o say , andpresen t anyevidenc e tha t yo u wan t to .

Bu t a t thi s point , wha t yo u ar e tellin g m e i s particularl yhelpful . Bu t i f

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 yo u wan t t o continu e t o d o s o - - DR . SELIG : Al l right . T woul d lik e CO , a t least , ge t i t o nth e record . I wil l presen t m yevidenc e b yth e wa yo f tes t imony . JUDG E GOODWIN : You r objectio ni s noted , counsel .

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor . DR . SELIG : S o regulatio n23 5 . 255 , befor e i t wa s remove dfrom , alon g wit hth e othe r regulation , contain s referenc e t o par t 121J , testin g fo r alcohol .

Referrin g t o th e certificat e holder , an doperator . Th e us e o f th e conjunction , and , indicate s tha t th e regulatio nonl yapplie s i f th e compan yi s no t jus t a certificat e holder , bu t a noperator .

I naccordanc e wit hth e Eberso n

case , whic hstil l remain s a litmu s tes t fo r thi s cas e law , ma yno t b e cite dfo r violation s occurrin g durin g a perio di ntim e whe nther e

wer e n o operations , o r th e operato r didn' t

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 actuall yfl ypar t 13 5 flights . Sinc e M& Rwa s i nmoratorium , di d
no t hav e a pilot , di dno t fly , an dwa s authorize d- - no t authorize dt o fly , par t 135 , require dn o revisions , durin g th e relevan t period , th e citatio ni s invali dan dfrivolous .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Le t m e allo wth e witnes s t o ste p down , I shoul dhav e don e tha t earlier. I f yo u wan t t o g o outsid e th e courtroom. , bu t yo u ar e admonishe dno t t o discus s you r testimony .

TH E WITNESS : Yes .

g o ahead . JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry , doctor ,

DR , SELIG : Mor e recen t cas e la w als o support s thi s concept , i nth e matte r o f helicopte r flight , FA Aorde r numbe r 2 011- 6 . I nthi s cas e FA

R135.25(b ) require s tha t a certificat e holde r hav e exclusiv e us e of , a t least , on e aircraft , tha t meet s requirement s fo r a t leas t on e kindo f operation , authorize d i nIt s operatio nspecifications .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Th e FAAdi dprov e th e helicopte r

fligh t di dno t hav e exclusiv e us e o f th e onl y aircraf t liste do nit s operations , bu t i t di d

n o flights , i t conducte dn o operation s durin g th e reference dperiod .

Th e Honorabl e Judg e furthe r state d tha t i t make s n o sens e t o enforc e thi s requirement , b yimposin g a civi l penalty , unles s ther e i s evidence , tha t th e certificat e holde r continue dt o operate , durin g th e tim e perio dtha t i t di dno t hav e exclusiv e us e of , a t least , on e aircraft .

Wit hforegon e reason s th e Administrativ e Judge' s decisio nwa s reversed , an dn o civi l penalt ywa s assessed . Th e regulation s wer e no t properl ylisted , notic e
o f regulator ychange s neve r provided , an dth e regulation s were , constantly , unde r revision , an drecodified .

Ms . William s disclose dtha t ther e
wa s a polic ychang e tha t occurre di nFebruar y o f 200 4 requirin g al l A& P mechanic s t o b e o n

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 a companyspecifi c dru g an dalcoho l program . M& Rwa s no t notified , o r aware , o f thi s regulatio nchange . Eve nmor e unsettling , th e FA Aoperation s inspector , Fran k Alotta , an dth e maintenanc e inspector , Gerr i Herringe r fo r M&R , wer e als o no t awar e o f thes e majo r regulator ychange s tha t th e FA Alate r adopted . I t was , therefore , unabl e t o infor mM& Ro f thi s change , fo r years . Thes e FA Aofficer s frequentl yinspecte dth e M& R aircraft , convenientl ylocate da t th e Kne e Hig hValle yInternationa l Airport , an dacros s th e stree t fro mth e Allentow nfligh t districts , standard s district' s office .

I nfac t non e o f th e managemen t personnel , includin g Mr . Wineber g wh o i s th e manage r o f th e Allentow nDistrict , wer e informe do f thi s regulatio nchang e durin g thi s period . Similarly , i nApri l o f 2004 , afte r variou s revision s t o appendice s I an dJ , M& R underwen t a dru g an dalcoho l progra m

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 inspectio nb yFA Adru g abatemen t office r Vincen t Roots , an dn o significan t discrepancie s wer e cited .

Mr . Root s di dno t infor mM& Ro f a substantiv e regulatio namendmen t tha t wen t int o effect , mandatin g dru g andalcoho l testin g unde r a nemployer' s program , tha t occurre dthre e month s earlier .

I t wa s apparen t tha t th e importan t chang e wa s no t disseminate dt o thei r ow nin

hous e FA

Aabatemen t personnel , eve nthoug hth e FA Aconsidere dthi s 200 4 amendmen t a substantial , substantiv e regulator ychange .

Henc e I andJ byComplainant' s wa s neve r clearl yreferenced , no r disclose di nth e Respondent' s signe doperation s specifications , o r complianc e statements .

Thes e regulation s are , thereby , hidden , omitted , concealed , an dcomplianc e impossible . Amendmen t 121-30 2 specificall y state s tha t th e CF Rwa s modified , du e t o th e nee dt o clarif yth e regulator ylanguage , sinc e

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 i t lacke dclarity , a s state db yth e FAA . Documen t RIN-221.20-AH1 4 state s tha t a s a resul t o f numerou s year s o f experience , inspectin g th e aviatio nindustr y o f anti-dru g an dalcoho l misus e preventio n program , th e FA

Ai s clarifyin g regulator y language , increasin g consistenc ybetwee nanti

dru g an dalcoho l misus e preventio nprogra m regulations , wher e possible .

An deliminatin g regulator y provision s tha t ar e n o longe r appropriate . Th e effec t o f thes e change s i s t o improv e safety , an dlesse nadministrativ e burden s o n th e regulate dpublic .

Ho wca nth e Agenc yhol da n operato r t o a regulator ystandar dtha t wa s vagu e an dambiguous , thu s necessitatin g a substantia l regulator yamendmen t fo r clarity ?

Th e ful l tex t o f numerou s revision s wa s neve r clearl ywritten , o r eve r incorporate di nth e complianc e statemen t o f operation s specifications .

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### 5 7

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 0 9 

### I f a regulatio ni s material , o r

substantive , i t woul drequir e reasonabl e standar dnotice , communication , o r forma l notic e fo r tha t materia l change .

Du e t o th e dept ho f th e Federa l Registry, i t woul db e impossibl e fo r a lay perso nt o monito r immateria l change s tha t ar e implemented , therefor e penalizin g Responden t fo r immateria l change , tha t modifie doperatio n requirement s i s procedurall yinconsisten t wit h
a forthrigh t notificatio nproces s tha t i s i n plac e fo r al l othe r chapter s o f th e opera t iona l specifications .

T o vie whundred s o f page s o f text , o nremot e websites , t o find , compare , an dthe n determin e i f a substantiv e chang e i na singl e isolate dregulatio nha doccurred , i s a n unreasonabl e burden , an dencourage s error , rathe r tha ncompliance .

I t wa s neve r statin g wher e th e exac t sourc e locatio no f thes e hidde nfin e poin c regulation s ar e t o b e located , o r a t

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### 4

5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 wha t interval s t o carr you t thes e tedious ,

random , hit ' an dmis s searc hexercis e tha t i s pron e t o misinterpretatio nan derror .

Therefor e i t i s impossibl e t o eve r b e completel ycompliant , a t anypoin t i ntime , i f a regulatio ni s changed , updated , withou t notificatio no r training , a s i s clearl y evidence db

yth e histor yo f th e FAA ' s ow n officers , wh o wer e no t properl yinforme do f thei r ow nregulatio nchanges .

Withou t prope r communicatio nt o th e contrary , th e Responden t ca nonl yexpec t th e procedure s fo r complianc e t o follo wsui t whe nth e othe r procedure s utilize di nth e complianc e an dth e operatio nspecification s i n th e complianc e statement .

Ms . William s informe dResponden t tha t th e regulatio nchange s occurre di n Februar yo f 2004 , bu t th e operationa l specifications , A4 4 9 , wer e confirme dan d signe dof f o nJanuar y4th , 2004 .

Th e 200 4 change s wer e major ,

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### 5 9

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### substantiv e changes , fo r whic hprinte d

notificatio nandsigne dconformatio nwoul d hav e bee nstandard .

Mr . Henenger , i nth e Allentwo n Distric t sai dth e onl yrequiremen t fo r comp l lanc e wa s a cop yo f Mr . Baker ' s A& P license , andevidenc e o f Mr . Baker' s employmen t dru g progra mb yHelicopters , Inc . befor e h e commence dworkin g o nthes e aircraft .

I hav e tha t a s evidence , whic hwa s i nm yconsortiumnotebook , an dMs . William s shoul dhav e reviewed .

Complainant' s attes t tha t chang e i nth e regulation s wer e promulgated , an d amende db

ynotice , i naccordanc e wit hth e Administratio nProcedure s Act , an dthroug hth e Federa l Registr ypublicatio no f Fina l Rule , eve nwhe nn o notic e ha doccurred .

Eve ni f thi s wer e t o b e true , th e FA Aamende dth e revision , i t state s tha t th e mandate dprogra mwil l b e tracke di nth e FAA' s opera t io nspecifications .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Thi s wa s neve r done . A nupdate d

o f Respondent' s OpSpecs , again , occurre di n 2009 . However , Ch e FA Aofficial s di dno t mak e mentio no f thes e importan t statutor ychanges .

Whe nquestione dabou t it , the y wer e unawar e o f th e change . I f M& Rwa s properl ynotified , o f thi s change , th e issu e woul dhav e bee nimmediatel yremedied , an dM.& R existin g an dcurren t dru g progra mupdated .

Assumin g argumento , eve ni f th e othe r fata l defect s wer e no t i nplace , thi s scenari o o f n o on e bein g informed , an dknowin g o f th e regulatio nchanges , onl yincur s a potentia l violation , andrepresent s entrapment , rathe r tha na forthrigh t notificatio nprocedure , tha t woul dencourag e complianc e an dsafety .

I t woul db e reasonabl e t o hol dth e Responden t - - i t i s unreasonabl e t o hol dth e Responden t t o a highe r standard , o r a doubl e standard , tha t thei r ownFA Aoperations , an d dru g inspectio nofficer s who , themselves , di d

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### 6 1

5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 no t know , o r informM& Ro f th e regulatio n

change . Ms . William s playe dfas t an dloos e wit hRespondent , b yassertin g tha t th e Responden t wa s suppose dt o updat e himsel f by assessin g th e Federa l Registry .

Th e v.'ebsite wa s non-existen t i n 2004 . Orde r 8900.1 , whic hinitiate dth e fligh t standard s informatio nsystem , wa s enacte di nSeptembe r 12th , 2007 , whe nth e allege dviolatio noccurre di n2008 , th e FA A websit e wa s i nit s primitiv e stages , incomplete , an dno t ye t populated .

Ther e w£is n o notic e tha t thi s websit e wa s eve ni nexistence . Th e FA A websit e v;a

s - - eve nmor e recentl yha dbee n difficul t t o navigate .

An dth e 200 4 amendmen t o f Appendi x I an dJ , wer e difficul t t o find , therei nstil l
no t provided , andforthrigh t notificatio n procedure . Th e standar dprocess , thi s

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Standar dproces s i s contrar yt o th e routin e

protocol followe db yal l th e othe r part s o f th e operationa l specifications .

Whic hinclude da regula r notificatio nprocedure . Thi s procedure , tha t th e FA Ause dfo r years , wa s - - i t presente d updated , rewritten , an dreprinte doperatio n specification s revision , an dphysicall y replace dpages , andsubsequen t re-sig nof f fo r confirmatio no f eac hon e o f thes e pages , tha t th e operato r wa s awar e of'thes e changes , an d tha t th e operato r agree s t o th e changes .

I t is , therefore , no t proper , o r reasonable , t o hol dM& Rresponsibl e fo r change s tha t n o on e wa s awar e of , no t formally , o r otherwis e notified , o r signe dof f
on . Regulation s 135.251 , an d135.25 5
a s written , i nth e complianc e statement , an d confirme dbyth e Respondent , doe s no t inherentl ystat e tha t M& Rmus t tes t eac h employe e wh o perform s safety-sensitiv e

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### 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Operations , andI hav e tha t a s a nexhibit . I t states , empirically , tha t any perso nconductin g safety-sensitiv e functions , mus t b e covere dbya nFA Aapprove ddru g an d alcoho l program .

Thi s individua l referre dt o di d compl ywit ha dru g andalcoho l testin g regulation s byth e full-tim e employers .

I t wa s discovere dtha t th e tw o regulations , tha t th e Agenc ywa s violatin g Responden t for , th e 25 1 andth e 2 55 , wer e s o confusing , inconsistent , contradictory , an d problematic , tha t th e FA Arulemaker s decide d t o remove , reverse , revise , relocate , recodif y them , i nJul yo f 2009 , on e yea r befor e th e violatio nwa s issued .

Apparentl ythi s wa s al l unbeknowns t b

yth e Complainants . Th e followin g statemen t wa s mad e concernin g thi s matter , byth e FAA .

Th e FA Ai s workin g o na majo r revisio no f it s dru g an dalcoho l testin g

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### 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### regulations , give nth e complexit yo f tha t

revision , an dth e tim e i t wil l tak e t o complet e th e rulemakin g process , th e FA Aha s concluded , tha t i nth e interim , i t make s sens e t o pul l th e existin g regulations .

Whe nResponden t wen t t o th e FA A websit e t o vie wthes e regulations , i t state d removed , an dreserved , nothin g more . Ther e wa s n o hype r tex t link tha t woul drefe r th e investigato r fo r furthe r information , o r t o a remot e website , tha t wa s available , unti l recently . An dI hav e a nexhibi t tha t show s that . Th e now-workin g link , show s recodification , a s Mr . Rale ysaid , o f 13 5 t o 251 , t o 120.35 , and135.255 , t o 120.39 .

Addin g ne wmeanin g t o th e movin g target , an dsecre t natur e o f thes e regulations . Now , th e complianc e wit hthi s regulation , eve nappear s dependen t o nwhethe r o r no t a compute r shifting , an dvariabl e websit e link i s operatin g correctl yo r not .

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### 6 5

2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 A s i t i s commo nlaw , an d i n accor d

wit hstandar dpractice s i n administrativ e law , i nth e interpretatio no f language , o f regulations , wher e doub t exist s a s t o th e inten t o f th e meanin g o f th e languag e written , andenacte db

ya governin g party , th e languag e shal l b e interprete di n favo r o f th e party , an dagains t anyimplie dextensio no f discretion . Th e Complainant s hav e take n aggressive , perhap s frivolou s cours e o f actio n t o pursue , a t best , a hypothetica l violatio n fo r a regulatio ntha t wa s removed , an d rescinde di n it s entirety , on e yea r befor e Complainant' s submitte dthei r complaint .

App a r e n1 1 ywit hth e o n1 yinten t bu t t o see k monie s fro mRespondent , a t any cos t t o th e Agency , eve ni f thos e lega l cost s fa r exceede dth e fin e amount .

Thes e regulation s remai na movin g target , no t properl ydisclosed , scattere di n differen t locations , no t clearl y

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 interpretable , coul dno t b e understoo db y

reasonabl e minds , boun db ydecen t society .

And , i nthi s case , no t eve nb yMSc R FAAinspectors , th e loca l FSDO , o r th e FAA official , Vincen t Root s th e prio r dru g an d alcoho l audit . I t wa s the ndeeme d problematic , b yth e FAArulemakers , v/h o ar e rewritin g th e regulations , thereb yholdin g M& R again , t o a highe r standard , o r a doubl e standard , tha nthei r ow nofficials .

Operationa l specificatio ncurrenc y I S als o recjuire dt o curtai l non-complianc e b y agent s an doperators , a s wel l a s a grac e perio dfo r compliance .

I n201 1 th e FAAdi dfinall y develo p a notificatio nsyste mtha t wa s reasonable , an di t mad e furthe r changes , identifyin g tha t thi s wa s problematic , ther e
wa s problemati c communicatio nan d notification , tha t th e dru g an dalcoho l progra m

ha s no wenacte da ne wprocedure , b y mailin g t o participants , reques t fo r websit e

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### 6 7

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### interaction , an ddate s fo r whic hcomplianc e

mus t b e completed , ver yreasonabl e method .

I naccordanc e wit hth e doctrin e o f Equitabl e tollin g an dmutuality , thi s Responden t canno t b e hel dliabl e fo r a change d regulatio ntha t h e wa s no t informe dof , wa s unabl e t o discover , unti l afte r th e chang e occurred . Thi s i s th e jurisprudence , an dth e reaso nwhyth e change dsection s o f th e operationa l specification s ar e revise d periodically , andsigne dof f b yth e affecte d parties , t o confir mth e stuff , and understandin g o f thos e changes .

I t wa s state dtha t Mr . Bake r i s not , an dha s neve r been , a nemploye e o f MSc R Helicopters , h e wa s a moonlighter . Complainan t cited , i nthei r pre-tria l brief , par t 12 1 appendi x1 , allowe demployer s t o us e individual s wh o performe dsafety-sensitiv e functions , whil e bein g include di nth e dru g progra mo f anothe r emp.loyer .

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1 2 

### 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 

### 2 1 9 9 

### Thi s wa s change di nJul y13th ,

2009 , whe nappendice s I an dJwer e recodified . Th e relativ e violatio nperiod , therefore , allowe dth e us e o f individual s o na primar y employer' s program .

Th e primar ypremis e fo r th e violatio no f thi s cas e rest s o nth e assumptio n tha t Mr . Bake r wa s no t o nanydru g an dalcoho l testin g program , an dperformin g safety

sensitiv e operation s o nth e M& Raircraft .

Mr . Bake r was , an dalway s was , ha d bee na moonlighte r freelance r fo r hi s wor k h e di do nMScR' s aircraft , tha t occurre don e day ou t o f ever ytw o yea r period .

Mr . Bake r wa s no t a contrac t employe e wit hMSL R

### , h e ha dn o contract , h e di d
no t wor k regularl yfo r M&R , h e di dno t receiv e regula r paychecks , h e wa s no t provide dhealt h insurance , h e wa s no t unde r th e contro l o f M&R , an dfo r ho wth e wor k wa s t o b e done .

Rathe r h e worke dindependently , o n hi s ow naccord , no t unde r th e direc t contro l

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### o f M&R , a s i s commo nlawtest . H e v;a s no t sub j ec t t o disciplinar yaction .

Mr . Bake r wa s employe dfull-tim e b ya nationa l company , Aerometrics , wh o provide dhi ma weekl ypaycheck , fo r 4 0 hour s a v;eek , receive dhealt hcar e benefits , a s par t o f th e unio nfo r tha t company .

H e was , always , o nth e rando mdru g andalcoho l progra mwithou t interruption , a t anypoint , b

ytha t primar yemployer , an dh e neve r teste dpositive .

I nadditio nMr . Bake r wa s i nth e National Guar dalcoho l program , i nhi s capacit ya s a pilo t an da nA&P .

Al l pertinen t allege dviolations , i n2008 , particularl ypar t 12 1 I an dJ , pertai nt o employee' s unde r contract . Mr . Bake r wa s no t . H e doe s no t includ e o r mentio n provisions , i t doe s no t includ e provisions , o r exclusions , fo r non-contract , free-lance , o r moonlighters .

Th e questio nwa s asked , byth e

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### 7 0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 attorney, i f ther e i s - - i f i t i s require dt o

hav e contac t betwee n- - contrac t betwee na companyan da thir dparty . Sh e responde dnon existen t . MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Sustained . DR . SELIG : Okay . Th e botto mlin e i s tha t th e regulatio ni s abou t a contrac t wit ha nemploye r i s s o confusing , tha t th e Judg e presidin g ove r th e hearing , o r th e attorne yissuin g th e violation , i t wa s s o confusin g t o them , ho wcoul dthe yexpec t a layperso nt o understan dit ?

S o i nconclusion , th e propose d hypothetica l violation , includin g any judgement , i s no t warranted , sinc e ther e wer e n o safet yissue s involved , durin g th e perio d M& Rha dsuspende doperations , wa s i n moratorium , was ' unauthorize dt o fly , o r conduc t operations , an dther e wer e problem s wit hth e notificatio nsystem s o f thes e movin g targe t violations .

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 9 Th e compan yha drestructured ,

require dcomplianc e statemen t revisions , ha d financial s i nth e negative , an dwoul dhav e mad e th e appropriat e changes , i f onl y Responden t wa s properl yinforme do f thes e changes . I nligh t o f thes e mitigating , compellin g circumstances . You r Honor , I submi t tha t th e cas e b e quashed , stricken , an d dismissed . JUDG E GOODWIN : Anythin g else , doctor , befor e w e tak e testimony ?

DR . SELIG : Excus e me ? JUDG E GOODWIN : I t i s 10:20 , w e
ar e goin g t o tak e a 1 5 minut e break . Whe nw e
com e bac k o nth e recor dMr . Raley , pleas e hav e you r witnes s u p here .

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Than k you . W e ar e of f ch e record .

(Whereupon , th e above-entitle d matte r wen t of f th e recor da t

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 10:2 0 a.m . an dwen t bac k o nth e

recor da t 10:3 9 a.m. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : O nth e record . Mr . Raley , you r witnes s ha s bee nsworn ,

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor . DIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . RALEY : Q Goo dmorning , Ms . Lozada . Coul d yo u pleas e stat e an dspel l you r nam e fo r th e record ? A Virgini a Lozada , V a s i nVictor , I-R-G-I-N-I-A , L , a s i nLarry , 0- Z a s i n zebra , A-D , a s i ndog , A . Q Ms . Lozada , ar e yo u currentl y employed ? A Q A 

### Yes . Wit hwhom? T h eFedera lAviatio n Administra t

ion
. QAndwha t

i s you r

jo b title , a t

th e Federa lAviatio nAdministration ? A 

### Ia

mth eeaster ndru g an dalcoho l

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 '2 1 2 2 complianc e an denforcemen t cente r manager .

Q Wha t dutie s ar e a par t o f tha t job ? A revie wan dapprov e al l inspectio nrelate ddocuments . I supervis e th e inspectors , I assig ninspectio nactivities . Q Ho wlon g hav e yo u bee ni ntha t position ? A A s a cente r manager , sinc e 2007 . 0 Prio r t o 200 7 wha t wa s you r employmen t ? AI hav e worke dwit hth e FAAsinc e 2000 , I starte da s a ninspector , wa s promote d t o tea mcoordinator , wher e I reviewe d inspectio nrelate dactivities , an dI a m currentl yth e cente r manager .

2000 ? 

### 0

A Since , I' msorry , wa s tha t sinc e

Sinc e 2000 . Q Durin g tha t period , fro m2 00 0 unti l today , ha s tha t al l bee nwit hth e dru g abatemen t division ?

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### 7 4
A Al l o f it .

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Q Prio r t o 200 0 wher e wer e yo u

employed? AI nth e Unite dState s Custom s Service . 0 An dwha t wa s th e jo btha t yo u hel d
a t th e Unite dState s Custom s Service ? AI wa s a custom s inspector , I conducte dinspection s an dinvestigation s fo r violation s o f custom s regulations . Q Ho wlon g wer e yo u employe dthere ? ASinc e 199 5 t o 2000 . Q I' dlik e t o tal k abou t th e inspection s tha t th e dru g abatemen t divisio n does , generally . Wha t typ e o f inspection s occurred , tha t th e dru g abatemen t divisio n conducts? AW e inspec t operator s fo r complianc e wit hth e dru g an dalcoho l testin g regula t ions . Q An dwh o i s subjec t t o thes e inspec t ions ?

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A Al l Par t 13 5 certificat e holder s

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### tha t ar e authorize dt o conduc t 1 3 5 , 12 1

operations . Q Wh o conduct s thes e inspections ? AOu r inspectors , dru g an dalcoho l complianc e an denforcemen t inspections . Q D o th e fligh t standard s inspector s conduc t thes e inspections ? A No . Q Ho war e th e inspection s scheduled ? AW e schedul e them , the yg o ou t ever yothe r -week , 5 0 percen t o f thei r tim e i s traveling . Q Ho wi s i t determine dtha t a certai noperato r woul db e inspected ? AW e hav e - - w e d o i t base do nou r complianc e strategi c targetin g monitorin g system . I t i s - - i t i s mainl ydon e i nou r headquarter s division , i t i s no t don e a t th e fiel dlevel . Q Wher e d o th e inspection s occur ? AAl l ove r th e country .

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### 7 6

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1
9 9 

### Q Wit hregar dt o a specifi c

operator , wher e d o the yoccur ? AI' mno t quit e - - Q Ar e th e inspection s hel da t airports , a t th e operato r - - i s th e - - AMainl ya t th e operators . Q An dwha t d o th e FA Adru g abatemen t inspector s d o durin g th e schedule d inspec t ions ? AW e inspec t th e dru g andalcoho l progra mrecords , includin g payroll , hir e documents , wor k records , performanc e records , suc ha s fligh t OP S o r maintenanc e records . Anythin g relate dt o th e dru g an dalcoho l program . Q What , i f anything , d o the ydo , followin g a ninspection ? AW e writ e up th e repor t o f inspection , w e sen dou t letter s o f investigation . Afte r w e receiv e a respons e t o th e lette r o f investigatio nw e determin e ho w w e handl e th e case.

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### 7 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### W e staf f - - th e inspector s usuall y

staf f th e case. An dwha t I mea nb ystaf f i s w e discus s - - the ydiscus s th e cas e wit hthei r teamcoordinator , andcente r managers , an dw e decide , a t tha t point , ho ww e ar e goin g t o procee dwit hth e case.

An dthen , a t tha t point , w e continu e th e process , a s discussed . Q D o al l inspection s resul t i na n lette r o f investigatio nbein g issued ? AAlette r o f investigatio n basicall ygive s th e operator , i t note s th e Item s tha t wer e discovere ddurin g th e inspection , an dgive s th e operato r a n opportunit yt o provid e a response . 0 1/ dlik e t o no wdirec t you r attentio nt o th e inspectio ntha t w e ar e her e fo r today . Ar e yo u familia r wit hth e 200 9 inspectio no f th e Respondent ? A Yes . 

### QVJh

ywa s Responden t

subjec t

t o dru g

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### 3

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 abatemen t inspec t ion ?

ABecaus e h e i s a 11 9 certificat e holder , an dauthorize dt o conduc t 13 5 operations . 0 I' dlik e t o sho wwha t i s bein g •markeda s Complainant' s exhibi t A-1 .

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 1 fo r identification. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document? AYes . Q Wha t i s thi s document? AThi s i s th e operation s specification s paragrap hAOOl , whic hbasicall y authorize s th e 19 9 certificat e holder , name d herein , t o conduc t operation s a s a 13 5 Ai r Carrier . Q document ? A Wha t certificat e numbe r i s o nthi s

I t i s Mike , Romeo , 3 , Alpha , 0 2 0

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### 7 9 Kilo .

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7

1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 

### 0 Wa s Responden t authorize dt o

conduc t Par t 1 3 5 operations ? 

### A Yes . Q I s thi s documen t kep t i nth e
norma l cours e o f busines s a t th e FAA ? 

### A Ye s . MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e tha t Complainant' s A- 1 b e admitte dint o evidence . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection ? DR . SELIG : I d o hav e objection . An dmyob j ectio ni s tha t my , tha t m y operation s wa s no t authorize dt o perfor m13 5 flights , withou t a napproved , certifie dpilo t .

S o thi s i s a nirrelevan t document , unde r th e circumstances , becaus e m yPar t 13 5

wa s no t pu t i nsuspende dmode , i s no t m y problem . M yevidenc e show s tha t m yoperation s inspecto r di dkno wtha t T coul dnot , an dwa s
no t authorize dt o perfor moperations .

An dI' d1 ik e t o proffe r - - s o I

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### 3 0

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6

^ T J . / 

### 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### object , andI woul dlik e thi s t o b e dedacte d

ou t o f th e record .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Overruled . Just , mechanically , I wan t t o le t yo u kno wtha t wha t I do , whe nI ge t th e origina l exhibit , i s I writ e ID , an dwhe ni t i s admitte dI lin e throug hm

yID , an dI pu t th e date , s o th e dat e tha t i t I S admitted .

S o whe nyo u se e these , o nth e record , yo u wil l se e I D an dthe nth e date . An dI d o that , i t i s a doubl e check , a tripl e check' . Th e objectio ni s overruled .

MR . RALEY : You r Honor , i s th e docLimen t move dint o evidence ?

'JUDG E 

### GOODWIN : I' msorry , exhibi t A- 1 fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Agenc yA-1 .

{The documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t A- 1 wa s admitte di n evidence. )

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### B YMR . RALEY :

2 3 4 

### 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Ms . Lozada , I woul d1 ik e t o sho w

yo u wha t i s no wbein g marke da s Complainant' s exhibi t A~2 .

[Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . 2 fo r identification. ) BYMR . RALEY : Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document? AYe s . Q Wha t i s thi s document ? AThi s i s th e operation s specification s paragrap hA 4 49 , specifi c t o th e anti-dru g an dalcoho l misus e preventio n program . Again ^ thi s documen t i s th e confirmatio nb

yth e certificat e holder , name d herein , tha t the ywil l compl ywit hth e rule s an dregulation s o f th e anti-dru g an dalcoho l misus e preventio nprogram . Q I s thi s documen t kep t i nth e

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### 8 2

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 norma l cours e o f busines s a t th e FAA ?

AYes , i t is . Q Doe s thi s documen t addres s wher e question s concernin g th e dru g an dalcoho l progra mca nb e addressed ? A Yes , unde r Sectio nC-1 , o nthi s document , note s tha t al l question s regardin g th e dru g an dalcoho l progra mshoul db e directe dt o th e dru g abatemen t division . Q Whyth e dru g abatemen t division? ABecaus e w e ar e th e branch , o f th e F7VA , tha t i s responsibl e fo r complianc e an d enforcement , wit hth e dru g an dalcoho l progra m regulations .

MR . RALEY : You r Honor , a t thi s tim e I woul dlik e t o mov e tha t Exhibi t A shoul db e entere dint o evidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Anyobjection . Doctor ? DR . SELIG : No .

JUDG EGOODWIN ; 

### A-2 , fo r identification , i s receive dint o evidence , a s

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Agenc yExhibi t 2 . (Th e documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t A- 2 wa s admitte di n evidence. )



### Q B YMR . RALEY ; A t thi s tim e I woul dlik e t o sho w yo u wha t i s bein g marke da s Complainant' s exhib i t .^- 3 .

{Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 3 fo r identification. ) B YMR . RALEY : 

### Q A Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document ? Ye s . Wha t i s thi s document ? AThi s i s th e operation s specification s paragrap hD0B5 , whic hlet s th e aircraft , tha t ar e authorize dunde r th e name d certificate , t o operate .



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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q An dwha t - - ho wman yaircraf t ar e

authorize dt o operat e unde r thi s certificate ? A One . Q Wha t i s th e registratio nnumbe r o f tha t aircraft ? ANovembe r 9 , A , Charlie , Mike . Q And , jus t t o b e clear , i s thi s th e paragrap hDOB 5 fo r Respondent ? A Ye s . Q I s thi s a documen t tha t i s kep t i n th e norma l cours e o f busines s a t th e FAA ? AYe s . MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e tha t exhibi t A- 3 b e entere dint o evidence . JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection ?

DR . SELIG : No . JUDG E GOODWIN : Agenc y3 , fo r identification , i s receive dint o everythin g a s Agenc y3 . (Th e documen t referre dto , havin g

bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r

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1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t A- 3 wa s admitte di n evidence. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q Wha t typ e o f inspectio nwa s conducte dfo r Respondent ? AI t wa s - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Let' s giv e a poin t i ntime . MR . RALEY : I' msorry .

B YMR . RALEY : Q Th e 2008 , 200 9 inspectio no f Respondent , wha t typ e o f inspectio nwa s conducted ? AI t • wa s a routin e complianc e enforcemen t inspection . 0 Wh o conducte dth e inspection ? ATw o o f myinspectors , LaTony a Williams , an dKi mBarnette . Q Di danybod yels e hav e a rol e i n tha t inspection ? AYes , becaus e w e revie wal l o f th e

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### 8 6

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 finding s o f th e inspection , bac k a t th e

office .

who ? Q And , t o b e clear , w e woul dinclud e

ATh e teamcoordinator , an dth e cente r manager . Q A Th e teamcoordinato r wa s who ? I t wa s Che t Stevenso nan dHowar d O'Neill , the yar e bot hm yteamcoordinators . Q An dth e cente r manage r i s yourself ? AI t i s myself . Q What , i f anything , di dth e inspector s discover , durin g thi s inspection ? ATh e inspector s discovere dtha t Edwar dBaker , th e A& P mechani c wh o performe d safety-sensitiv e dutie s o nth e aircraft , liste di nth e paragrap hD085 , fo r M& R Helicopters , wa s no t covere deithe r unde r M&R' s plan , an ddi dno t hav e hi s ow nprogram . 0 Wha t document s di dth e inspector s review ?

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### 4

5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### ATh e inspector s reviewe dfligh t

logs , the yreviewe dmaintenanc e records , ther e wer e n o pre-employmen t record s t o review . The yreviewe dth e training , an dth e dru g an d alcoho l progra mrecords . Q Wh o provide dthes e documents ? ADr . Seli g did . Q _I' dlik e t o sho wyo u wha t i s bein g marke da s Complainant' s exhibi t A-4 .

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 4 fo r identification. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document? AYe s . Q Wha t i s thi s document? AThi s i s th e aircraf t maintenanc e recor dfo r aircraf t Novembe r 9 , Charlie , Mike , indicatin g tha t Edwar dL . Baker , an di t list s hi s A& P certificat e numbe r 158545206 , an di t indicate s th e typ e o f wor k tha t h e performed .



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1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Specifically , o nJul y24th , 2008 , dow na t th e

bottom . I t show s tha t h e performe dsafety

sensitiv e wor k o nthi s aircraft . I t says , mai nroto r crac k an dbalanc e checked , chec k numbe r 4300 , an dvalv e 200 6 maintenanc e manua l chapte r 65 .

An di t say s tha t h e conducte d thes e check s i naccordanc e wit hth e maintenanc e manual . Q Wa s thi s documen t obtaine da s par t

o f thi s investigation ? A Yes . Q Wa s thi s documen t certifie db yth e

- -> inspecto r .

- A Ye s . MR . RALEY ; A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e tha t Complainant' s exhibi t A- 4 b e move dint o evidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection ? DR . SELIG : No . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay .

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### 8 9

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q BYMR . RALEY : And , jus t t o b e clea r JUDG E GOODV^IN : Agenc y4 , fo r 

### identification , i s receive dint o evidenc e a s Agenc y4 .

Q {The documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 4 wa s admitte di n evidence. ) B YMR . RALEY : Jus t t o b e clear , i s th e aircraf t note do nth e wor k orde r th e same , th e aircraf t note di nExhibi t A-4 , th e sam e a s th e aircraf t tha t i s o nth e operationa l specification s o f Respondent ? A Yes , i t i s Novembe r 98 , Charlie , Mike . Q Than k you . I' dlik e to , now , sho w yo u wha t i s bein g marke da s Complainant' s Exhibi t A-5 .

{Whereupon , th e above-reference d

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 

### Q

A Q t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 5 fo r identification. ) B YMR . RALEY : D o yo u recogniz e thi s document ? Yes . Wha t i s thi s document ? AThi s i s th e fligh t lo g fo r tha t

sam e helicopter . Bel l Helicopte r 20 6 , Novembe r 9 8 , Charlie , Mike . An di t show s ai l o f th e f1ight s tha t th e - - tha t wer e conducted . 

### Q Wa s thi s documen t obtaine di nth e
cours e o f thi s investigation ? AYe s Q Wa s receip t o f thi s documen t certifie dbyth e inspector ? 

### A Ye s . Q Ha dResponden t conducte dPar t 13 5 flights ? AYes . 

### MR. RALEY : A t

thi s tim eI' dlik e t o mov etha t

Complainant ' s Exhibi t A- 5 b e

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5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1

- 1 ~ ) 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 0 move dint o evidence . JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection ? DR . SELIG : Yes , I object . JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t i s th e basi s
o f you r objection ?

DR . SELIG : Th e basi s i s th e inaccurat e depictio no f thi s document .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wh yi s i t inaccurate ? DR . SELIG : Excus e me ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wh yi s i t inaccurate ? DR . SELIG : Becaus e I - - becaus e i t doe s no t sho w- - okay . I t doe s sho wPar t 13 5 fligh t prio r whe nI wa s a certifie dpilo t fo r th e operation .

You r concep t i s tha t Par t 13 5 flight s wer e conducte dprio r t o th e violatio n period , tha t i s you r statement , right ?

MR . RALEY : Thi s documen t indicate s tha t yo u performe dPar t 13 5 operation s - -

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### 9 2

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 DR . SELIG : Right , prio r t o - -

befor e Jun e o f 2007 .

MR . RALEY : Tha t i s correct . JUDG E GOODWIN ; N o objection ? DR . SELIG : N o objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : Agenc y5 , fo r identification , i s receive di nevidenc e a s Agenc y5 . {The documen t referre dto , havin g

bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t A- 5 wa s admitte di n evidence. ) BYMR . RALEY : 0 I' dlik e t o no wsho wyo u wha t ha s bee nmarke da s Complainant' s Exhibi t A-6 .

{Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 6 fo r identification. ) MR . RALEY : An djus t a quic k note. You r Honor . Thi s i s a rando meligibilit y

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3 4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 20 2 1 9 9 Socia l Securit ynumber s o f Dr . Selig . W e wil l

Q o ahea dan dredac t that .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wh ydon' t yo u d o this ? MR . RALEY : W e hav e a pe nhere . You r Honor . MS . CARON : W e hav e a blac k marker , You r Honor .

MR . RALEY : Bette r tha nthat . JUDG E GOODWIN : Mak e sur e yo u sho w Dr . Selig , mak e sur e tha t th e Socia l Securit y number s ar e redacted .

Normall yI wouldn' t worr yabou t th e las t four , bu t - -

MR . RALEY : Mr . Bake r woul dals o lik e hi s numbers , hi s A& P number s dedacte da s
we l 1 JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u ar e tellin g m e hi s A6cP number ?

MR . RALEY : Yes , becaus e a t tha t poin t i ntim e i t wa s a Socia l Securit ynumber .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 JUDG E GOODWIN : Counsel , wh ydon' t

yo u approach , I' mgoin g t o han dyo u exhibi t 4 , fo r identification , an das k yo u t o redac t Dr . Selig' s - - mak e sur e tha t h e i s satisfied .

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Tha t i s th e proble mwith , i f yo u g o bac k fa r enough , the y use dyou r Socia l Securit ynumbe r o n everything . (Pause. )

MR . RALEY : I t wil l jus t b e a moment . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Tak e you r time . (Pause. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : And , doctor , yo u a r esatisfie dtxhat you r Socia l Securit ynumbe r ha s bee ndedacte dfro mtha t exhibit ?

DR . SELIG : Yes , You r Honor . MR . RALEY : Ma yI continue . You r Honor ?

ahead . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , pleas e g o

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### 9 5

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 BYMR . RALEY ;

QNo wI' dlik e t o sho wyo uwha t ha s bee nmarke da s Complainant' s Exhibi t A-6 . D o yo u recogniz e thi s documen t ? AYes , I do . Q An dwha t i s thi s document ? AThi s i s th e rando meligibilit y poo l listing . I t indicate s al l o f th e employee s tha t ar e include di nth e M& R Helicopter s rando mdru g an dalcoho l testin g 

### poo l . Q Fo r wha t perio do f time ? AThi s i s fo r period s Januar y1st , 200 7 t o Jul y21s t o f 2009 . Q Wa s thi s documen t obtaine ddurin g th e cours e o f th e investigation ? A Yes . Q Wa s receip t o f thi s documen t certifie db

yth e inspector ? A Yes . Q Wh o wa s i nth e rando mpool ? AI nth e rando mpoo l ther e wa s onl y

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### 9 6

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 on eemploye e durin g tha t entir e period , an di t

vya s Dr . Michae l Selig . Q Wa s Mr . Bake r i nth e pool ? A No . MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I' dlik e t o mov e tha t Complainant' s Exhibi t A- 6 b e move dint o evidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection ? DR . SELIG : No . JUDG E GOODWIN : An dj us t s o yo u know , I paginat e a t th e botto mright-han d corner . S o th e exhibi t tha t yo u wil l se e o n th e interne t wil l hav e 1 o f 6 , 2 o f 6 , 3 o f 6 .

S o i nth e future , i f w e refe r t o somethin g we ca nb e specific . Agenc y6 , fo r identification , i s receive di nevidenc e a s Agenc y6 . (The documen t referre dto , havin g

bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 6 wa s receive di n evidence. )

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4 5 6 7 3 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1

9. 9 

### B YMR . RALEY :

Q Wa s a lette r o f investigatio n issue ddurin g th e cours e o f thi s investigation ? A Ye s Q Wha t - - I' mno wgoin g t o sho wyo u wha t i s bein g marke da s Complainant' s Exhibi t A- 7 .

Q A Q A (Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 7 fo r identification. ) B YMR . RALEY : D o yo u recogniz e thi s document? Yes . Wha t i s thi s document? Thi s i s th e lette r o f investigatio ntha t wa s sen t pursuan t t o th e conductio no f th e inspection . Q Wha t purpos e doe s thi s documen t
serve ? A Thi s documen t allows , o r notifie s

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 th e operator , fo r th e secon dtime , becaus e

the yfirs t wer e noticed , durin g th e inspection , a t th e inspection , bu t i t kin do f confirm s th e item s tha t wer e discovered , an d i t provide s th e operato r a nopportunit yt o provid e a respons e t o th e apparen t violations .

MR . RALEY : A t Chi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e Complainant' s Exhibi t A- 7 int o evidence . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection ? DR . SELIG : No . JUDG E GOODWIN : Doctor , i s th e Westgat e Driv e addres s a busines s address ?

DR . SELIG : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Yo u understan dv;h

yI' maskin g you ? Doctor , i f w e
com e t o a point , i nth e record , wher e yo u se e you r ow naddress , le t counse l know , an dw e wil l b e sur e w e redac t it .

B YMR . RALEY : Q Di dResponden t repl yt o th e lette r
o f investigation ?

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A Ye s .

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 0 ? Q I' dlik e t o sho wyo u wha t ha s bee n

marke da s Complainant' s Exhibi t A-8 .

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 8 fo r identification. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : While , yo u ar e doin g that , Agenc y7 fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Agenc y7 .

(Th e documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 7 wa s admitte di n evidence. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document ? AYe s . Q Wha t i s thi s document ? AThi s i s Dr . Selig' s respons e t o th e lette r o f investigation . Q What , i f anything , wa s learne d

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 fro m

thi s document , wit hregar dt o Mr . Baker' s employment ? A I t wa s learne dtha t Mr . Bake r wa s employe db yAi r Methods , Inc. , Dr . Seli g writes , here , tha t Mr . Bake r wa s continuousl y engage di na dru g program , i nhi s capacit ya s
a full-tim e mechani c pilot , an dA& P mechanic , mediva c pilot , an dA& P mechanic , wit hAi r Methods , Inc . , prio r to , an ddurin g hi s performanc e o f maintenanc e o nth e - - her e i t say s DH Raircraft .

MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e tha t Complainant' s Exhibi t A- 7 - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Thi s i s A-8 . MR . RALEY : A- 8 b e entere dint o evidence . JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection , Dr . Selig ? DR . SELIG : No .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Agenc y8 , fo r idencification , i s receive dint o evidenc e a s Agenc y8 .

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### 10 1

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 (Th e documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 8 wa s receive di n evidence. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q Di dth e inspector s revie wwhethe r Mr . Bake r wa s o nAi r Methods ' program ? 

### A Ye s . Q Ar e yo u familia r wit ha nagenc y called , o r th e ter mFligh t Methods ? AI a m- - Fligh t Method s i s wha t Dr . Seli g mentione da s Mr . Baker' s employer , durin g th e inspection . H e als o mentione dtha t i na statemen t tha t h e prepare dfo r th e inspectors . I t wa s late r discovere dtha t i t

wa s no t Fligh t Method s but , rather . Ai r Methods , wher e Mr . Bake r worked . Q Di dM r . Bake r perfor mth e wor k fo r Respondent , o nbehal f o f Ai r Methods ? 

### A No .

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### 10 2 Q A t thi s tim e I woul dlik e t o sho w

6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 yo u wha t i s bein g marke da s Complainant' s

Exhibi t A-9 .

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 9 fo r identification. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document ? AYes . Q Wha t i s thi s document? AThi s i s a recor do f email s fro m Joh nHagleroa dwit hth e dru g progra mmanage r a t Ai r Methods . Q What , i f anything , wa s learne d fro mthi s email ? AI t wa s learne dtha t yes , indeed , Mr . Bake r di dwor k fo r Ai r Methods , h e wa s a pilo t wh o als o hold s a nA& P certificate . However , h e wa s no t authorized , byAi r Methods , t o conduc t anysor t o f maintenanc e fo r M& RHelicopters , o r anyothe r operator .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 whic hindicate s tha t h e performe dth e

maintenanc e fo r M& RHelicopter s o nhi s own , outsid e o f th e scop e o f hi s employmen t wit h Ai r Methods .

MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e tha t Complainant' s Exhibi t A- 9 b e
move dint o evidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection , doctor ? DR . SELIG : No .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Agenc y9 , fo r identification , i s receive dint o evidenc e a s Agenc y9 . (Th e documen t referre dto , havin g

bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A- 9 wa s receive di n evidence. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q Di dth e inspector , o r an yo f th e inspectors , involve dwit hthi s case , eve r contac t Mr . Baker ?

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• 

### 1

2 3

• 1

' 1 

### 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 5 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### A Yes .

Q What , i f anything , di dthe ylear n fro m tha t contact ? AThe ylearne dtha t Mr . Bake r ha d bee ndirectl yemploye dandpai dbyDr . Seli g fo r Ch e wor k tha t h e performe do nth e aircraft , liste di nth e OpSpecs . Q I' dlik e t o sho wyo u wha t i s bein g marke da s Complainant' s Exhibi t A-10 .

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A-1 0 fo r identification. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document? AYe s . Q A Wha t i s thi s document ? Thi s i s th e lette r fo r th e statemen t signe db yEdwar dBaker , t o ou r office , Che t Stevenson , specifically , wher e h e state s tha t h e wa s pai ddirectl ybyDr . Seli g fo r th e wor k tha t h e conducte do nJul y24t ho f

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 200 8 . I t state s th e kin do f wor k tha t h e

performed , an dI wil l rea drigh t fro mit . I t says : O nJul y24th , 2008 , I performe da mai n roto r trac k an dbalanc e check , pe r th e reques t

o f aircraf t owner , an dfo r thi s I wa s compensated , vi a check , i nth e amoun t o f 20 0 dollars . Q Wa s thi s documen t obtaine ddurin g th e norma l cours e o f th e investigation ? A Q inspector ? A Yes . Wa s thi s documen t certifie db yth e

Ye s . MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e t o hav e Complainant' s Exhibi t A1 0 move dint o evidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection ? DR . SELIG : Negative . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Agency' s 10 , fo r identification , i s receive di nevidenc e a s Agency' s 10 .

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3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 {Th e documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainant' s Exhibi t No . A-1 0 wa s admitte di n evidence. ) B YMR . RALEY : 0 Hav e yo u eve r hear do f th e ter m moonligh t ing ? A Q Ye s . Wha t doe s tha t mean ? AMoonlightin g i s whe na nemployee , assumin g h e say s h e i s employed , suc ha s Mr . Baker , fo r example , work s an di s covere dunde r
a nemployer , a s h e wa s fo r Ai r Methods , an di s i nthei r rando mtestin g program .

However , h e perform s wor k o nhi s
own , outsid e o f th e scop e o f hi s employment , wit hanothe r operator , an dtha t i s prohibite d b yth e regulation , unles s tha t othe r employer , i nthi s cas e M& Rcover s hi mi nhi s program , o r Mr . Bake r ha s hi s ow ntestin g program . Q S o doe s Mr . Baker' s status , a s a

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### 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 moonlighter , hav e anyeffec t here ?

AYes , i t i s no t - - no t onl yi s i t a violatio no f th e regulation , becaus e th e regulatio nprohibit s moonlighting , bu t i t als o affect s safet yi ntha t becaus e h e wa s onl y covere db

yAi r Methods ' program , ther e i s n o waytha t i f Mr . Bake r teste dpositive , a t Ai r Methods , ther e i s n o wa yfo r hi mt o b e remove d fro mperformin g thos e safety-sensitiv e function s a t M&R , becaus e M& Rwoul dneve r kno w tha t h e tesCe dpositiv e a t Ai r Methods . 0 Ar e ther e an ysafet yconsequence s t o this ? AAbsolutely . I f Mr . Bake r wer e unde r th e influenc e o f dru g an dalcohol , i t coul dhav e catastrophi c consequences , causin g death , o r seriou s injury , o r substantia l damag e t o th e aircraft . Q D o appendice s I an dJ , a s i n effec t i n2008 , defin e th e termemployer? A Q

(202 ) 23J-^43 3 

### Yes .

Wha t i s a nemployer , unde r th e


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5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 regula t ion ?

AA nemploye e i s a 11 9 certificat e holde r wh o i s authorize dt o conduc t 13 5 flights . Q Wa s th e Responden t a nemploye r unde r ch e regulations ? AYes . Q D o appendice s I an dJ o f Par t 12 1 tha t wer e i neffec t a t th e time , defin e th e ter m employee , o r covere demployee ? 

### A Q Ye s . Wha t i s th e wha t i s a n employee , o r a covere demployee , unde r th e regulations ? AA nemploye e i s someon e wh o work s fo r a 11 9 certificat e holder , wh o i s authorize dt o conduc t 13 5 operation s i nwha t

w e cal l a safety-sensitiv e capacity . Q Wha t i s a safety-sensitiv e capacity ? AI t i s anyon e wh o perform s maintenance , o r preventiv e maintenance , i n

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### 10 9

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 thi s particula r case .

0 Wha t functio nv^a s Mr . Bake r performin g fo r th e Responden t ? AMaintenanc e an dpreventiv e maintenance . 

### Q sensitive ? 

### A Q Ar e thos e considere dsafety

Ye s . Wa s Mr . Bake r a nemploye e o f Respondent , unde r th e regulations ? 

### A Ye s . Q Why ? ABecaus e h e wa s hire dt o perfor m th e safety-sensitiv e functions . Q Wa s Mr . Bake r o nRespondent' s dru g
an dalcoho l testin g program ? ANo . Q Wa s Mr . Baker , o nhi s ow ndru g an d alcoho l testin g program ? 

### A No . Q Wha t conclusion s di dyo u dra wfro m thi s evidence ?

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### 11 0

A Becaus e h e di dno t hav e hi s ow n

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 program , an dbecaus e M& RHelicopter s di dno t

cove r him , i nit s ow nprogram , i t wa s conclude dtha t Mr . Bake r wa s performin g thes e dutie s outsid e th e scop e o f hi s employmen t wic hAi r Method s and , therefore , h e wa s i na moonlightin g situation , whic hi s prohibite dby th e regulation .

An dbecaus e h e wa s no t subjec t t o testin g andinclude di nth e poo l fo r M&R , the n i t wa s discovere dtha t tha t wa s a violatio no f th e regulations . Q Wha t di dyo u d o afte r reviewin g Chi s case ? 

### A I reviewe dal l o f th e evidenc e tha t m yinspector s gathered , an dI approve d th e case , an dw e submitte di t fo r lega l processin g fo r th e headquarter s section .

MR . RALEY : Tha t i s al l I hav e a t thi s time . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Cross-examination , Dr . Selig ?

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5

1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 CROS S - EXAMINATIO N B YDR . SELIG : Q A Ms . Lozada ? Lozada . Q Lozada , okay . Exhibi t 1-A , thi s disclose s tha t th e dat e o f thi s documen t i s 5

- 03 , d o yo u agre e t o thac ? AI' msorry ? Q Th e dat e o f thi s document , th e contro l numbe r i s Ma yo f '03 , an dwa s signe d of f o nFebruar yo f '04 , i s tha t correct ? AI t say s H Q control , i t say s Ma y 9t ho f '03 . Q Okay , w e wil l us e that , okay . An d thi s mention s basicall yoperations . Bu t ca n yo u impl ytha t thi s wa s curren t i n2008 , whe n ther e i s n o pilot ? AI a mno t a FSD O inspector . Q Okay , tha t i s a fai r statement . ASo l can't , I don' t know . Q Well , woul dyo u sa ytha t I wasn' t authorise dt o fl yi n2008 ?

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A Yo u ha da vali d13 5 certificate .

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 Q Bu t ca nyo u fl ywithou t a pilot ?

AI don' t kno wtha t matter , I' mno t

a FSD O inspector . Q Tha t i s a fai r statement , though . Commo nsens e woul dtel l yo u - -

MR . RALEY : Objection , JUDG E GOODWIN : Don' t com e i nwit h you r testimony , doctor .

DR . SELIG : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u ca nas k he r question s an dsolici t responses .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Al l right , th e A-2 , whic hi s A449 , th e dat e o f tha t documen t i s Februar y2004 , wo u 1 dyo u agre e v; i t hthat ? AWher e ar e yo u seein g th e date ? 0 I t i s o nth e secon dpage . ATha t i s th e dat e that , lik e o nth e lin e tha t says , Michae l B . Selig , Agen t fo r Servic e date ? Q Yes .

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6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 I S 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 9 AFebruar y2004 .

Q Okay . An dwha t dat e di dth e regula t io nchange ?

MR . RALEY : Objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : Overruled . MR . RALEY : Wha t specifi c regulation . You r Honor ? Thi s i s - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , let' s se e i f sh e ca nanswe r th e question .

TH E WITNESS : I' msorry ? DR . SELIG : Le t m e rephras e - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Ca nyo u answe r th e questio ntha t i s posed ?

TH E WITNESS : Wha t wa s th e Cjue s t ion ? B YDR . SELI G Q Th e questio nis , th e specifi c regulatio ntha t state dtha t Mr . Bake r ha dt o b e unde r m ydirec t dru g an dalcoho l program , v;he nwa s tha t changed ? AFebruar vo f 2004 . Q Okay . S o i s i t possibl e tha t I

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1 2 3 4 B 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2

1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### didn' t kno wabou t this , an di t wa s signe doff ,

andi t wa s no t updated ?

M R. RALEY : Ob j e c t i on , speculation .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . Dr . Selig , ther e i s n o wa ytha t sh e ca nkno wwha t yo u wer e thinking .

B YDR . SELIG : 

## 0 I gues s m ypoin t is , i s i t possibl e tha t sinc e thi s wa s signe doff , probabl ysigne doff , th e documen t presente d earlier , th e documen t create dearlier , tha t th e regulatio nchange dafte r thi s documen t wa s signed ? APrio r t o a regulatio nchanging , ther e i s a whol e PRMi nprocess , a notic e o f propose drulemaking . Th e industr yi s give na n opportunit yt o provid e comments .

.Al l o f thos e things , al l o f tha t happen s prio r t o a regulatio neffectiv e - - Q I wil l ge t int o that . Bu t I jus t nee dyo u t o jus t addres s th e fac t tha t thi s

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 documen t wa s signe dprio r t o th e change , th e

forma l chang e i nth e regula t ion . AI kno wtha t thi s documen t says , becaus e I don' t prepar e thi s document , th e FSD O doe s - - Q Okay , i f th e regulatio n- - JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , le t he r answe r th e question .

TH E WITNESS : S o I kno wi t says , o nth e lin e wher e i t say s you r name , an dagen t fo r service , I kno wtha t i t i s date d2-4-2004 .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Okay . AI don' t kno wwha t tha t signature , becaus e I don' t ovy nit . Q Bu t ther e i s a goo dpossibility , chance s ar e mor e t o th e fac t tha t thi s wa s signe dafte r th e regulatio nchanged ?

MR . RALEY : Objection , specula t ion .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Overruled . Answe r th e question , i f yo u can .

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 

### Q TH E WITNESS : I don' t know . B YDR . SELIG : Okay , I understand . Now , i f w e loo k a t sectio n3 - - firs t o f all , I woul d lik e t o as k you , wher e doe s i t say , o nthi s document , wher e t o loo k fo r thes e regulations ^

o r i s ther e a website , o r anything ?

How , whe nyo u rea dthis , ho wd o yo u kno wtha t yo u hav e t o g o loo k someplac e else ? Obviousl yal l this , yo u can' t tel l wher e t o loo k fo r i t o nthi s document , i s tha t correct ? Ther e i s n o websit e o nthi s document . A Ther e i s n o websit e o nthi s document . However , i t doe s tel l yo u th e regulations , i t tell s yo u exactl ywhic h regulation s yo u agre e t o compl yto .

I t tell s yo u wh o t o contac t fo r ques t ions . 0 Okay , tha t i s a goo denoug h

answer . I f I coul ddirec t yo u t o numbe r 3 , i t say s contractor s wh o perfor msafety-sensitiv e

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 ques t ion .



### Q MR . RALEY : Objectio n JUDG E GOODWIN : Le t hi mfinis hth e

l YDR . SELIG : I t woul db e C-3 , C-3 . AOkay . Q An dI' mreadin g th e secon d- - tha t wJiol e sentence , I wil l jus t rea di t . Contractor s wh o perfor msafety-sensitive-work , fo r th e certifie dholder , ar e subjec t t o anti

dru g an dalcoho l preventio nprograms .

MR' . RALEY : Objection , tha t i s a misstatemen t o f th e - -

TH E WITNESS : I t doesn' t sa ythat . B YDR . SELIG : 0 Th e certificat e - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Jus t hol don . DR . SELIG : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : Doctor , yo u as k a question . I f yo u ca nanswe r it , yo u ca n answe r it . Wai t unti l h e ask s th e questio n

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3 4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 ? 7 befor e yo u ente r you r objection . MR . RALEY : G o ahead , doctor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Repea t you r questio ns o tha t th e witnes s ca n--i f yo u ar e referrin g t o a document , refe r t o th e section , yo u ca ncertainl yrea dwha t i s there . Bu t focu s th e witness ' attentio nt o wha t i t i s tha t yo u ar e specificall ytryin g t o enquir e about . B YDR . SELIG : Q Okay , C-3 , th e certificat e holde r i s responsibl e fo r ensurin g tha t it s contractors , wh o perfoi' msafety-sensitiv e work , fo r th e certificat e holder , ar e subjec t t o anti-dru g an dalcoho l abus e preventio n programs . Tha t i s wha t i t say s righ t there ? ACorrect . Q Okay . Now , didn' t I d o that , bein g tha t Mr . Bake r wa s o nAi r Method s dru g
an dalcoho l program , wasn' t he , didn' t I fulfil l tha t requirement ?

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A No .

4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 0 I t doesn' t sa ytha t Mr . Bake r

need s t o b e o nm yow ndru g an dalcoho l program ? ATh e regulatio nsay s that . Q I' maskin g yo u abou t thi s document . JUDG E GOODWIN : Liste nt o th e question , jus t answe r th e questio ntha t h e i s askin g you .

Q B YDR . SELIG : Doe s thi s documen t tel l m e tha t Mr . Bake r need s t o b e o nm ydru g an dalcoho l program , no t Ai r Methods ' dru g an dalcoho l program ? AThr s documen t doe s no t tel l yo u that , Mr . Bake r - - 0 Than k you . MR . RALEY : Objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : Doctor , le t he r answe r th e question .

TH E WITNESS : Thi s documen t doe s

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 9 no t referenc e Mr . Bake r a t all . B YDR . SELIG : Q An yA& P mechanic , okay , let' s sa y

- - w e ar e splittin g hair s here . Okay , an y- - okay . Doe s thi s documen t stat e tha t an y contracto r need s t o b e o nm yspecifi c dru g an d alcoho l program ? A No . Q Okay , al l righ t . S o - - an di t doesn' t tel l a websit e tha t I ca ng o an dloo k at , z-ight ? A Q I t doe s no t mentio na website . Okav . AI t onl ymention s th e regulation . Q Al l right , no wMs . Lozada , whil e

w e ar e o ntha t subject , whe ndi dth e website , whe nwa s th e websit e initiated ? Becaus e w e
ar e talkin g abou t 2 0 04 , here .

Whe nwa s th e websit e le t m e jus t ge t tha t evidenc e here .

DR . SELIG : W e wil l mak e thi s R-1 ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u ca n- - doctor ,

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4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 i f yo u hav e the mnumbered , I don' t min d

whethe r yo u introduc e the ma s 5 , o r 6 , o r 10 , o r whatever , i nterm s o f th e sequence , i f yo u don' t hav e the mmarked , th e easies t wa yt o d o it , i s jus t mar k the man dg o fro mthere .

DR . SELIG : Int o R-1 ? JUDG E GOODWIN : I t woul db e easie r fo r th e Court , yes .

DR . SELIG : I jus t didn ' t kno w v/hat you r numberin g syste mwa s goin g t o be .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I t varie s fro m tria l t o trial . Typicall yon e part yuse s th e alphabet , an dth e othe r use s numbers . Bu t tha t i s fine .

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Responden t Exhibi t No . 1 fo r identification. }

bench ? DR . SELIG : Ma yI approac hth e

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes . B YDR . SELIG :

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### 12 . Q Ms . Lozada , thi s i s whe nth e

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 9 

### hol do non e secon dhere . Pause . B YDR . SELIG : Q Well , thi s documen t represent s whe nth e Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n websit e vja s actuall ystarted . An ds o yo u ar e tellin g m e tha t I hav e t o g o o na website , an d figur e ou t wha t thi s regulatio nis , an dth e websit e wasn' t eve navailabl e then , i t didn' t start , thi s orde r o f 8900.1 , state dthi s websit e starte di n2007 . A Pleas e allo wm e t o correc t you . JUDG E GOODWIN : I s tha t question? Yo u mad e a statement , docto r

B YDR . SELIG : Q Okay , i s tha t correct ? ANo , i t i s incorrect . Thi s documen t i s a fligh t standard s document , an d perhap s fligh t standard s starte da vyebsite .

However , th e dru g abatemen t websit e ha dbee ni nexistence , sinc e I starte d

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 a s a ninspector , bac k i n2000 . Thi s i s no t

ou r Order , thi s i s a fligh t standard s order . 

### Q Ms . Lozada , I' mconfused . I though t i t woul db e o nth e federa l website , no wyo u ar e tellin g m e ther e i s anothe r one . Ho war e w e suppose dt o kno wwher e t o look ?

I mean , thi s i s no t a movin g targe t situation . Ho wd o w e know , i t i s no t -

AYo u googl e dru g abatement , whic h i s - - h e i s askin g m e ho w- - 

### 0 Hov; , ho wi s a nindividua l t o know ? AYo u googl e - - Q Ho wi s a nindividual ? I' mlookin g
a t myOpSpecs , ho wa mI t o kno wwha t i s goin g
o nhere ? Wher e ar e thes e regulations ? I t i s
no t i na foreig nname , ch e mos t commo n- -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . B YDR . SELIG : Q Hov ; i s someon e goin g t o b e compliant ? Ca nyo u tel l me , wha t ar e the " method s o f compliance ? Becaus e i t i s no t

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 liste di nmyOpSpecs . JUDG E GOODWIN : Doctor , yo u aske d thre e questions .

DR . SELIG : Okay , sorry . TH E WITNESS : I ca ntel l you , becaus e you r OpSpec s paragrap hA4 4 9 , whic hi s specifi c t o th e dru g an dalcoho l testin g regulations , i f yo u ha ddon e wha t C- 1 says , whic hi s al l question s pertainin g t o th e dru g
an dalcoho l shoul db e addresse dt o th e dru g abatemen t division .

I f you ' g o o ngoogle , an dyo u sa y dru g abatemen t division , ou r websit e pop s up .

B YDR . SELIG : 0 Bu t suppos e I didn ' t hav e an y questions . I' mlookin g a t thi s documen t an d I' m saying , okay , I' mdoin g everythin g right . Mr . Bake r is , fo r th e pas t 2 5 year s h e ha s bee no nth e dru g an dalcoho l program .

I don' t hav e an yquestions , becaus e I' m

doin g thi s right . M yoperation s inspecto r i s tellin g m e I' mdoin g everythin g

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### 12 5

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 9 

### right . Mynia i ntenanc e inspector , Mr . Henenger , h e i s tellin g m e I' mdoin g everythin g right .

S o wh yvyouldI hav e anyquestions , an dI don' t eve nkno wwher e t o look ? I mean , I' mno t a nattorney , - -

MR . RALEY : Objection .

Q B YDR . SELIG : S o I' mjus t confused . An d everybod yels e wh o ha s reviewe dthi s cas e als o i s confused , how , wha t ar e th e method s fo r compliance ? I jus t don' t understand .

Ho wd o yo u findou t abou t this ? V^Jh ydoe s i t hav e t o b e suc ha secret , whyi s that ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Doctor , yo uaske d 

### fiv e o r si xquestions . Yo u hav e a questio n tha t yo u hav e asked , yo u ar e makin g statements , andaskin g a question .

I f yo u hav e a question , yo u ar e makin g statement s andaskin g questions . I f yo u hav e a questio ntha t sh e ca nanswer , the n as k her .

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• 9

1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 I B 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 B YDR . SELIG :

Q D o yo u have , wit hyo u today , written , wha t th e method s o f complianc e wer e i n2008 ? AD o I hav e wit hm e - - 0 Yes . A- - method s o f compliance ? Q Ye s . I mean , thi s support s wha t th e cas e i s abou t - - ATh e regulatio ni s wha t th e cas e i s about . ' Q Okay , bu t - - AAn dyo u aske dm e i f I hav e th e regulation ? Q I' maskin g you , wha t th e method s
o f •- - okay , le t m e pu t i t thi s way . Wh yi s i t tha t 1 didn' t kno wabou t th e regulation , th e Allentow nFSD O didn' t kno wabou t thi s regula t io nchange .

Ho wcome , i f Mr . Root s didn' t kno w abou t th e regulatio nchange , ho wi s tha t possible , i f tha t informatio nwa s neve r



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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 A I don' t know .

Q Ar e the yguilty , also , fo r no t checkin g th e website ? Okay , I understand . ANo , ther e ar e jus t s o man y questions , I don' t kno wwhic ht o answe r first . Q Okay . Wh yi s i t tha t non e o f th e peopl e tha t I se e o na regula r basis , didn' t kno wabou t thes e specifi c change s i nth e regulations ? AWh o ar e th e peopl e tha t yo u se e o n
a regula r basis ? AMr . Alotta , Mr . Alotta , wh o i s m y operatio nspecification s sinc e 2002 , Mr . Henenger , wh o wa s mymaintenanc e inspector , sinc e 2002 , Mr . Root s didn' t kno wabou t it , an dh e wa s i nmyoffic e i nMarc han dApri l o f 200 4 . Th e regulatio nha dchange di n April , th e regulatio nchange dtw o month s before . Ho wcom e Mr . Root s didn' t knov yabou t

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 0 Okay , le t m e refres hyou r memor y

here . I' m

goin g t o cal l thi s R-2 . (Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Responden t Exhib i t No . R- 2 fo r identification. ) B YDR . SELIG : Q Yo u d o recal l tha t yo u mentione d i nth e recor dtha t I ha da dru g inspectio nb y Mr . Roots , fro myou r department , i n2004 . I s tha t correct ? AVincen t Root s i s wh o yo u ar e talkin g about ? Q Vincen t Roots , yes . Wh yi s it , Ms . Lozada , tha t h e didn' t kno wabou t th e - - tha t h e couldn' t tel l me , trai nme , an dh e didn' t kno wabou t it , whe naccordin g t o yo u I shoul d hav e bee nviolate dback , a t tha t point , right ? I s tha t correct ?

MR . RALEY : Objection , speculatio n

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1 2

. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 a s t o wha t he r knowledg e o f Mr . Root s - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustaine d Doctor , ther e i s n o wa ysh e ca nkno wthat , sh e wouldn' t b e abl e t o respon dt o wha t someon e doesn' t know .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Al l righ t , s o th e questio ni s that , obviousl yfro mtha t letter , I wa s no t notifie do f a chang e i nth e regulation ? AI don' t kno wwha t happene ddurin g tha t inspec t ion . 

## 0 Well , ther e i s a lette r there . I t woul db e i ntha t letter , yo u woul dhav e mentione di f ther e wa s a regulatio nchang e i n tha t letter . I mean , tha t woul db e standar d procedure ? Ob j ec t ion ,

MR . RALEY : speculation .

JUDG E GOODWIW : Overruled . I f yo u
ca nanswe r th e question , th e referenc e i s b y lookin g a t tha t letter .

TH E WITNESS : I don' t kno wwha t h e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 woul dhav e mentioned . B YDR . SELIG : Q Well , i t i s i nth e letter . AWha t i s i nth e letter ? Q . Well , i t i s actuall ywha t i s no t i nCh e letter . Tha t letter , afte r h e reviewe d

mycase , whe nth e regulatio nha dchange dtw o month s before , I' msorry , thre e month s befor e h e reviewe dme , bu t h e didn' t mentio nanythin g abou t a regulatio nchange . AI don ' t kno wwha t typ e o f inspectio nwa s assigne dt o Mr . Roots . I don' t kno wi f he , perhaps , wa s assigne da focu s inspection , wher e h e didn' t hav e t o loo k a t thos e records , tha t wa s no t par t o f hi s assignmen t O r 1 don' t kno wi f h e faile dt o loo k a t thos e records , an dtha t i s wh y- - Q Okay , tha t i s - - A- - i t wa s fortuitous , fo r you , tha t h e didn ' t catc hi t a t tha t poin t . Becaus e I als o don' t kno wwha t record s yo u

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1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 provide dt o hi ma t tha t point , either . I

reall ycan' t answe r tha t question . Q I t i s possibl e h e faile dt o infor m
me , tha t i s possible , right ? AI don ' t kno wi f h e faile dt o infor m you . Q Al l righ t . Now , ther e wa s a statemen t mad e tha t I ha dn o pre-employmen t informa t io no nMr . Baker . An dI woul dj us t lik e thi s - - thi s particula r documen t wa s i n-

- wa s i nmydru g audi t book .

Whic h- - (Pause. ) B YDR . SELIG : Q S o ther e wa s somethin g i nth e record . An dthi s was , b yth e way , s o yo u woul dagre e wit hm e - -

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Doctor , allo whe r t o loo k a t th e exhibit . D o yo u hav e on e fo r th e Court ? Doccor , whic hexhibi t numbe r d o yo u wan t thi s t o be ?

DR . SELIG : R-3 .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , wha t yo u ma y

hav e don e i s writte ni t o non e o f th e othe r

one s . (Whereupon , th e above-reference d

t o documen t wa s marke da s Responden t Exhibi t No . R- 3 fo r identification. ) B YDR . SELIG : 0 S o thi s documen t i s prett ymuc h consisten t wit hMr . Bake r alway s bein g o na dru g an dalcoho l program , correct ? A Actually , I don' t se e tha t here . Q Well , h e wa s o na dru g progra m startin g i n2006 , woul dyo u agre e there ? AThi s i s no t wha t thi s certifies . 

### 0 Well , the nlet' s ente r thes e int o evidence , then .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Doctor , d o yo u kno wwha t th e dat e is , dow nbelo wth e signatur e block ? I' mseein g th e 2006 , bu t th e cop yth e Cour t ha s I can' t tel l wha t th e dat e 

### i s 

### .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 I B 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 DR . SELIG : Yes , tha t i s th e bes t

i t wasn' t i ngrea t shap e t o begi nwith .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I f w e don' t kno w

w e - - DR . SELIG : I mean , tha t i s wha t v;a s give nt o m e earl yon .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , I'v e go t sufficien t information , too .

B YDR . SELIG : Q An dthen , becaus e th e compan yi s clianging , thi s woul db e - - wouldn' t yo u agre e tha t thi s shoul db e furthe r confirmatio ntha t Mr . Bake r wa s o na dru g an dalcoho l program ? AS o th e firs t documen t tha t yo u hande dme , tha t i s th e receip t o f a policy . Q Right . S o - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Hol do na minute . TH E WITNESS : S o i t i s - - JUDGE-GOODWIN : Whic hdocumen t ar e yo u talkin g about ?

THEWITNESS : Thi s one , i t i s 

### receip t o f

apolicy
.

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4 5 6 7

o 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t w e have , th e

reaso nw e hav e t o kee p thi s straight , i s whe n yo u sa yi t i s th e firs t piec e o f pape r h e showe dyou . TH E WITNESS : Correct .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . I f thi s come s u p o nappeal , somebod yreadin g th e transcrip t doesn' t hav e a clu e wha t yo u o r I

ar e talkin g about .

TH E WITNESS : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : S o th e witnes s i s referrin g and , doctor , correc t m e i f I' m wrong , th e witnes s i s referrin g t o Respondent' s 3 , fo r identification ? I s tha t wha t w e ar e talkin g about ?

TH E WITNESS : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . No wcontinu e

w i t hwha t yo u wer e saying .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Th e secon ddocument , tha t I jus t hande dyo u - -

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Sh e starte dt o

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### 13 5

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 say , v;ha t th e witnes s starte dt o say , Respondent' s 3 fo r identificatio nsays , an d the nI cu t yo u off .

TH E WITNESS : I t i s th e receip t o f th e policy . B YDR . SELIG : Q Okay , al l righ t . Now , i f Mr . Henenger , wh o i s m ymaintenanc e coordinator , wa s oka ywit htha t document , t o allo wfo r Mr . Bake r t o commenc e workin g o nth e aircraft , v.'oulchT' t h e b e le dt o believ e tha t tha t woul d b e a correc t statement ? AWh o i s Mr . Henenger ? MR . RALEY : Objection . B YDR . SELIG : Q Mr . Henenge r i s mymaintenanc e coordinator . S o i f Mr . Henenge r tol dm e I nee dyo u t o hav e a nA& P licens e o nfile , an d I nee dt o hav e som e evidenc e o f a prio r drug , o f bein g o na dru g program , o r som e kin do f pre-employmen t dru g program , wouldn' t - - and h e sawtha t document , an dh e okaye dfo r Mr .

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### 13 6

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Bake r t o d o wor k o nth e aircraft , woul dther e

b e reaso nfo r yo u t o d o otherwise , woul dther e b e reaso n- - A O f course , yes . Becaus e thi s doe s no t certif ytha t h e i s i na program . An di f yo u ar e talkin g about , I' mno t sur e wh o Mr . Henenge r is , bu t i f - - Q H e i s a maintenanc e - - A- - h e i s you r PMI , h e i s no t authorize dt o revie wdru g an dalcoho l progra m record s lik e that , no r i s i t hi s responsibility . Q S o i f I' ma layperson , an dI' mno t rea l wel l verse do nal l th e fin e prin t of , yo u know , thes e regulation s - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Hol don . Okay , g o ahead . B YDR . SELIG : Q I f you r operation s inspection s person , an dyou r maintenanc e inspecto r tel l yo u tha t thi s i s wha t yo u need , woul dther e b e reaso nfo r m e t o loo k otherwise , fo r othe r

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### 13 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 answers , o r t o furthe r investigat e th e matter ?

AWell , ther e shoul dbe , becaus e i t sai dt o you , andyo u certified , i nyou r OpSpec s tha t al l question s pertainin g t o th e dru g an dalcoho l portio no f you r progra mwoul d b e directe dt o th e dru g an dalcoho l - - Q I agre e wit hyou . Bu t i f my inspector s tel l m e I' mokay , I don' t hav e any questions , I' mno t goin g t o loo k fo r questions . Whywoul dI loo k fo r questions ?

Th e poin t is , i f yo u agree , the n thi s whol e thin g i s no t forthright . AI disagre e because , becaus e Dr . Selig , I woul dg o t o th e source , i f I ha da question . Becaus e I woul dneve r giv e yo u maintenanc e instruction , becaus e tha t i s no t
m yare a o f expertise .

S o th e dru g an dalcoho l progra mi s no t thei r are a o f responsibility , o r expertise , s o honestly, anythin g tha t yo u ha d concernin g th e dru g an dalcoho l progra mshoul d hav e bee ndirecte dt o us .

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### 13 8

5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Q S o ho wam I suppose dt o kno wthat ? I t i s no t i nth e OpSpe c that , yo u know , wh o t o tal k to . An di t i s onl ysayin g i f I hav e ques t ions . AThi s i s no t mean t a s a disrespec t t o you . Dr . Selig . Bu t yo u ar e a cardiologist , correct ? Q Ye s AS o i f yo u hav e a patien t wh o ha s anea r problem , woul dyo u answe r that , o r vyouldyo u sen dthe mt o a nE&T ? 

## 0 Well , I wa s aninternist , s o - - AWell , i t i s jus t a nexample . Q I understand . AI believ e tha t yo u hav e t o g o t o th e sourc e t o ge t prope r information . 0 Tha t i s accordin g t o thes e regulations , don' t yo u agree , i f I hav e questions . Bu t i f ther e hav e bee nn o question s raised , ther e i s n o reaso nt o enquire . Anothe r question , prio r t o

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Februar y2004 , wasn' t thi s procedure , tha t I

ha dv/ithMr . Baker , th e standar dprocedure , bein g tha t th e onl ythin g neede dwa s tha t Mr . Bake r b e o na dru g an dalcoho l program , no t m y dru g an dalcoho l program ? A Prio r t o 2004 ? Q Februar y2004 , th e regulatio n allowe dMr . Bake r t o b e o n- - a s lon g a s h e
wa s o na dru g an dalcoho l program , tha t wa s th e regulatio nthen ? APrio r t o 200 4 al l yo u ha dt o d o
wa s ensur e tha t h e was , i nfact , i na dru g program . 0 Than k you .

. ^ However , whe nth e - - Q Than k you . A-- regulatio nchanged , moonlightin g wa s prohibited . An dnotic e o f tha t upcomin g chang e wa s pu t ou t lon g befor e th e effectiv e dat e o f th e regulation , i n Februar y2004 . 

### QOkay , s o - -

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

. 9 9 

### JUDG E GOODWIN : A t tha t poin t th e

Cour t i s goin g t o g o of f th e record , an dw e ar e goin g t o tak e a break .

I' m goin g t o as k yo u t o retur na t 1:15 . Doctor , th e firs t thin g yo u lear ni s t o loo k fo r th e cloc k andth e secon dis , t o mak e sur e th e batter yi s i nit .

I hav e ye t t o b e i na courtroo m wher e I hav e tw o clock s tha t sayth e sam e thing , an dmos t o f themdon' t hav e batteries . S o I wan t t o sav e yo u th e problem .

S o w e ar e goin g t o g o of f th e record , an dI wil l as k tha t yo u retur na t 1:15 . An dth e witness , yo u ar e no t t o discus s you r testimonywit hanybody , durin g thi s recess . W e wil l g o of f th e record .

(Whereupon , a t 11:4 2 a.m. , th e above-entitle dmatte r wa s recesse dfo r lunch . )

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 A-F-T-E-R-N-0-O- NS-E-S-S-I-O- N 1:2 9 p.m . JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig ? DR . SELIG : Yes ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u ma ycontinue . B YDR . SELIG : Q W e las t lef t of f wit hyo u mentionin g tha t moonlightin g wa s prohibited , an dI aske dyo u t o produc e a documen t t o b e significant . An dd o yo u hav e tha t documen t wit hyo u today , t o giv e t o th e Court ? AAr e yo u askin g m e i f I hav e th e - - Q Yes , d o yo u hav e th e documen t - - yo u jus t reference da documen t abou t ho w moonlightin g wa s prohibited . AI sai dtha t whe nth e regulatio n changed , w e n o longe r allowe dth e practic e o f moonlighting , whic hwa s tha t practic e tha t I explaine dearlie r i nm ytestimony . An dno wi t i s require dfo r eithe r th e operato r t o pu t th e perso ni nthei r dru g an dalcoho l testin g poo l - -

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Q Tha t wasn' t m yquestion . JUDG E GOODWIN : Le t he r finish , an dthe nyo u - -

TH E WITNESS : O r - - JUDG E GOODWIN : - - ca nas k anothe r ques t ion . TH E WITNESS : th e contractor , who myo u contracte dwit hdirectly , i nthi s cas e Mr . Baker , wa s t o hav e hi s ow nprogram , o r yo u coul dhav e entere dint o a contractua l regulatio nwit hAi r Methods , wh o covere dMr . Bake r i nthei r program . Q Okay , m

yquestio n- - I wil l rephras e m

yquestion , i ncas e yo u didn' t understan di t th e firs t time.

An dtha t is , d o yo u hav e tha t specifi c regulation , i nprint , s o w e ca n revie wtha t righ t now ? AI t i s th e regulatio n- - Q Okay , ca nyo u pul l ou t - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Jus t answe r th e questio nye s o r no .

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TH E WITNESS : W e hav e th e

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 regula t ion . MR . RALEY : You r Honor , I ca n

provid e th e regulation , i f yo u woul dlike .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o th e answe r t o you r question . Dr . Selig , i s yes . S o wha t i s you r nex t question ?

B YDR . SELIG : Q Wha t yea r wa s tha t regulatio n availabl e s o tha t i t coul db e reviewed ? A Th e effectiv e dat e o f th e regulation ? Q A Ye s . I t wa s 200 4 Q Okay . Al l right , now , ho wwa s I t o b e mad e awar e o f tha t particula r regulatio n change ? ATh e regulatio ni s i nth e Federa l Register , whe ni t i s announce di nth e Federa l Register , i t i s als o o nou r website .

Q 

### An

ds o how wa s It o kno w that ? I mean , i f

Idon ' c kno w tha t th eregulatio n

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### chang e i s comin g out , ho wamI suppose dt o

kno wt o loo k o nth e website , i f ther e i s n o notificatio no f it ? AA s anoperator , a s a certificat e holder , yo u ar e require dt o maintai nyou r knowledg e o f al l o f th e requirement s unde r whic hyo u ar e hel dresponsibl e fo r operatin g under . Q Okay , than k you . Now , ca nyo u sho wm. e som.eplac e wher e i t give s m e a time , ho wofte namI suppose dt o chec k tha t website ? A mI suppose dt o d o i t evei' yfiv e minutes , ever ymonth , ever yyear , ever ythre e years ?

Doe s i t saysomeplace ? Becaus e otherwise , withou t a tim e frame , tha t w e no w hav e i noperation , i t i s impossibl e t o eve r b e on e hundre dpercen t compliant , i f yo u don' t kno wwha t th e tim e fram e i s t o respon dt o something . S o i s ther e a ninterva l fo r checkin g thes e regulations , i s ther e any guidance , whatsoever , o f whe nt o chec k fo r

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### 14 5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 thes e regulatio nchanges ? Ye s o r no ?

AWell , tha t i s a personal decision . Q No , i t i s not . AHo wofte nyo u chec k i s you r ow n persona l decision . Q Okay . Bu t I' mtryin g t o b e compliant . S o I' mlookin g fo r guideline s o f ho wofte nI' m

t o check , whereve r th e sit e is , i norde r t o b e compliant , wha t i s th e interval ? AAr e yo u askin g m e t o - - Q I s ther e a specifie dinterval ? AYo u ar e require dt o maintai n complianc e Dr . Selig . I t i s up t o yo u ho w ofte nyo u decid e t o check , o r loo k int o something , o r i f yo u - - Q Okay , than k you . A- - ar e uncertai nabou t something , i t i s up t o yo u t o see k ou t th e informatio n fro mpar t ie s wh o coul dgiv e yo u prope r 

### guidance
.

Q 

### S o far , s o fa r wha t yo uhav esai d

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### 14 6

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 3 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 i s I' msuppose dt o loo k o nthi s website , bu t

ther e i s n o informatio nabou t wher e th e webs i t e is . MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . H e i s mischaracterizin g - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , yo u ar e arguing . I f yo u hav e a question , the nas k th e question . B YDR . SELIG : Q Okay , s o you r answe r basicall yi s tha t - - o r you r answe r i s tha t I ' mjus t suppose dt o - -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained , aske d

andanswered .

Q l

YDR . SELIG : I wante dt o ask , th e fac t that . concernin g thi s notificatio nprocess , th e fac t tha t m y- - Mr . Root s didn' t kno wabou t thi s change , m

ytw o inspector s didn' t kno wabou t th e change , Mr . Watworth , th e manage r o f th e Allentow nFSD O di dno t kno wabou t th e chang e

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### 14 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 tha t occurred . But , somehow , yo u ar e expectin g m e t o kno wabou t thi s change . Now , isn' t tha t holdin g me t o a highe r standard , o r a doubl e standard , tha nyou r ownFA Aofficials ? A No . Q I t i s not ? Okay , I understand . Al l right , an dwhyd o yo u thin k i t i s no t a highe r standard , o r a doubl e standard ? AMr . Roots ' inspectio nha s nothin g t o d o wit hth e curren t inspectio ntha t w e ar e her e for . Th e FSD O inspector s hav e absolutel y nothin g t o d o wit hou r program , no r ar e the y responsibl e fo r overseein g th e dru g an d alcoho l portio no f you r program .

An dyou , a s a noperator , ar e require dt o maintai ncompliance , an dyo u certifie dtha t yo u woul db e i ncompliance , an d yo u wer e give nth e correc t departmen t fo r any kin do f guidanc e tha t yo u shoul dsee k ou t guidance , fro m

th e dru g abatemen t division . Q Al l right , s o yo u ar e sayin g tha t

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### 14 8

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 ? 

### th e ful l responsibility , whic hprobabl y

include s som e kindo f osmosis , o r telepathy , t o realiz e whe na - - whe na - -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . BYDR . SELIG : 0 - - whe na regulatio nchange d- - JUDG E GOODWIN : Doctor , as k a question , th e attitude s don' t hel p th e Cour t wit hth e issue s i nth e case .



### 0 B YDR . SELIG : Al l right , Ms . Lozada , my , my maintenanc e coordinator , I' msorry , inspector , Mr . Henenger , routinel ylooke dove r th e la w books . Probabl ya t leas t ever ythre e months , sinc e i t v;a

s s o convenien t fo r hi mt o d o so , sinc e th e aircraf t i s jus t righ t acros s th e stree t fro mth e FSDO .

An dfo r almos t fiv e year s h e neve r mentione da problem , h e neve r mentione d anythin g abou t anykin do f notificatio n process . 

### So , an dassumin g tha t I' msuppose d

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1
9 1 

### t o liste nt o whateve r FA Aagen t i s representin g th e FAA , i nparticula r matters , wouldn' t i t b e likel ytha t I woul dliste nt o someon e wh o i s righ t there , o na dail ybasis , wit hthi s operation , rathe r tha nsom e goin g o n a website , o r tryin g t o figur e ou t whe n- - AI' mgoin g t o repea t i t onc e again . MR . RALEY : Objectio n- - JUDG E GOODWIN : Hol don . Counsel , yo u hav e a nobjection ?

MR . RALEY : Yes . Thi s questio ni s no t relevan t t o th e - - th e action s o f FSD O personne l ar e no t relevan t t o th e action s o f th e dru g abatemen t division .

Th e questio nhere , befor e us , i s - i t ha s t o d o wit hth e dru g abatemen t program , th e dru g division' s enforcemen t o f tha t program , no t FSD O inspection s o f maintenanc e records .

Hi s characterization , here , i s no t relevan t t o th e matter .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained .

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DR . SELIG : argumen t woul db e tha t You r Honor , m y

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : I' mno t intereste d

i narguin g wit hyou . Th e objectio nha s - -

DR . SELIG : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : - - bee nsustained , let' s mov e on .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Okay , Ms . Lozada , ho wd o yo u trai n you r personnel , an dho wd o the ybecom e awar e
o f regulatio nchanges ? AW e hav e a ful l trainin g segmen t fo r newl yhire dinspectors . No t onl ydoe s i t includ e regulation s training , bu t i t include s on-site , o nth e jo btx"aining .

I t als o include s trainin g fo r th e 21.53(b ) order . I t als o include s inspectio n proces s order , th e inspecto r orde r tha t i s specifi e t o ou r inspectors .

I t require s EI Rtraining , i t require s correspondenc e i ndat a bas e training . Q Okay .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 A

ques t ion . Now , al l o f thos e thing s - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Le t he r answe r th e

TH E WITNESS : - - ar e specifi c t o
ou r inspectors , fo r ou r type s o f inspection s
an dinvestigations , nothin g t o d o wit han y othe r FAAdivision .

B YDR . SELIG : Q I s ther e no wa trainin g progra m availabl e fo r operators , di dsomethin g lik e tha t com e int o recen t availability , fo r operators , trainin g fo r - - A Q A Q A

Q

A i t goe s Fo r us ?

Ye s . Fo r dru g abatement ? Ye s . No .

I S . I hav e rea dotherwis e tha t ther e

No . MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor ,

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JUDG E GOODWIN : Jus t as k a

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 questio nan dallo wth e witnes s t o answe r it . B YDR . SELIG : Q Th e fac t tha t appendice s I an dJ

wer e revised , rewritten , recodified , relocated , wouldn' t tha t indicat e tha t ther e mayb e wa s som e proble mwit hth e clarificatio n
o f thos e particula r regulations ? AAbsolutel ynot . Q I see . An dth e reaso nfo r tha t i s what ? The ymentio ni t righ t i nyou r documents , tha t i t wa s unclear . A W e - - th e rewrit e o f th e Rul e was . basically , t o giv e u s ou r part , becaus e w e
wer e a nappendi xI an dJ t o par t 121 . An ds o thi s vya

yw e hav e ou r ow npar t i nth e regulation . Basicall ywha t wa s don e wa s t o combin e bot happendices , I an dJ , int o one . 0 The yclearl ysai dthe ywer e revisin g it , rewritin g it . A I t wa s

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### 15 3

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 0 9 

### Q Becaus e i t wa s unclear .

AI t wasn' t - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Doctor , yo u aske d
a question , sh e gav e yo u a nanswer . Yo u can' t argLi e wit hth e witnes s abou t th e answe r tha t yo u requested .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Wha t woul dyo u sayi s th e percentag e o f operator s wh o hav e modifie d thei r OpSpec s t o reflect , promptly , th e regulator yamendments ? ATha t i s - - MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . B YDR . SELIG : Q Hav e yo u audite doperator s wh o als o wer e unawar e o f changes , suc ha s I hav e been , o r hav e no t receive danykin do f
no t ification ?

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . B YDR . SELIG :

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3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 9 

### Q Whywa s I no t allowe dth e

opportunity , cite di nyou r ownparameters , t o cur e o r remedym yOpSpecs , withou t goin g directl yt o a violation ? AI hav e nothin g t o d o wit hyou r OpSpecs , tha t i s a FSD O mission . Q I mean , I ' msorry , t o allo wt o cure , modify , th e lette r o f intent , o r you r lette r o f correction ? I nothe r words , instea d
o f goin g righ t t o a violation , ho wcom e I wasn' t give nth e prope r opportunit yt o amen d

m yprocedures , sinc e the ywer e no t know nof , instea do f goin g righ t t o a violation ?

Becaus e i f yo u - - g o ahea dan d ansv/er tha t question . AI don' t understan d- - Q Th e questio nis , th e wa y- - A- - you r question . Q - - I understan dyou r procedures , i s tha t - - I gues s I wil l referenc e i t now . Bu t I' mtalkin g abou t lAl , complianc e an d enforcemen t trackin g system , GETS , cite s tha t

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### 15 5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 ? 

### a lette r o f correction , o r a warnin g notice ,

i s appropriat e whe nther e ar e serious , seriou s safet yissues,^o r unwillingnes s t o compl ywit h regulations .

D o yo u believ e thi s wa s th e cas e i nthi s particula r situation ? AAlette r of

- correctio nfollow s a lette r o f investigation , an di s considere da n administrativ e action .

S o whe nyo u ge t you r lette r o f investigatio nyo u provid e a response , an dtha t i s you r opportunit yt o provid e a response , an d
anymediating , o r anycorrectiv e actio ntha t yo u hav e implemented , t o th e FAA .

An dthe nw e revie wyou r response , andthe nw e determin e whic hwa yw e g o wit hit , whethe r w e procee dwit ha lette r o f correction , administrativ e action , whic h include s th e lette r o f correction , i t als o include s a warnin g notice , o r a no-action , whic hyo u di dreceiv e a t on e poin t o r another .

And/o r whethe r o r no t w e procee d



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### 15 6

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 wit hlega l action . Wit hth e issu e pertainin g

t o Mr . Baker , w e decide dt o g o wit hth e lega l action . Wit hth e othe r issues , yo u kno wtha t

w e wen t wit hadministrativ e action . Q Okay . Bu t th e proble mi s yo u di d
no t addres s th e secon dpart , th e secon dpar t .of th e sentenc e whic his , quote , n o seriou s safet yissue s o r unwillingnes s t o compl ywit h th e regulations .

Tha t i s th e premis e whic hexclude s a violation , unde r thi s section , i nth e GETS . Now , s o d o yo u believ e ther e wa s a seriou s safet yissue , numbe r one ? ACETS s ar e ou r complianc e an d enforcemen t trackin g syste m- - 0 Yes . A- - wher e w e ente r ou r finding s o f
eac hinspectio ntha t w e conduc t . I t is , basically , ou r dat a base , wher e w e ente r ou r inspectio nfindings .

I t i s no t a guidanc e site , o r anythin g lik e that , tha t tell s u s ho wt o

(202 ) 23-1-443 3 

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### 15 7

1 2 

### 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1
2 9 

### handl e eac hcase.

Q Okay , than k you . AAlso , w e loo k a t th e totalit yo f th e situatio ni ndeterminin g wha t - - ho ww e g o wit hth e proces s o f th e case. Q I understand . Wa s ther e any seriou s safeC yissues ? AI believ e tha t ther e i s a seriou s safet yissu e i ntha t Mr . Bake r wa s no t subjec t t o rando mtesting . Q Okay . Ho wcoul dther e b e a seriou s safet yissue , i f a naircraf t wa s no t flownfo r almos t - - fo r fou r years , an dn o 13 5 f 1 ight s v;er

e performe d. Ho wwa s tha t a seriou s safet y issue ? ATher e wer e 13 5 flight s performed . An dyou r 13 5 certificat e wa s curren t an d active . Q Okay , s o yo u ar e sayin g tha t afte r h e performe dhi s service , o nth e aircraft , tha t ch e 13 5 fligh t wa s flown ?

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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### 15 8

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 9 

### AI didn' t saythat .

0 Okay . Well , tha t i s th e point . Th e poin t was , o r d o yo u agre e tha t n o seriou s safet yissue , i f th e aircraf t wa s neve r flown 13 5 flight s afte r tha t Jul y24th , 200 8 service ? MR . RALEY : Objection , aske dan d answered . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained .

B YDR . SELIG ; Q Now , th e secon dpart , whic hwoul d allow , o r provid e reasonabl e prosecutio no f a violation , woul db e unwillingnes s t o compl y wit hth e regulations .

Now , d o yo u believ e tha t I wa s unwillin g t o compl ywit hth e regulations ? AD o I believ e - - QYes . A- - tha t yo u wer e unwilling ? Q Yes . I mean , tha t woul db e th e tw o stipulation s i norde r t o initiat e a 

### violation , rathe r

tha nalette r o f

correction ,

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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### 15 9

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 o r a warnin g letter .

AI woul dhav e t o sayyes , becaus e v.'he nyo u agreed , i nyou r OpSpecs , t o follo w al l o f th e rule s o f th e regulation , an dyo u didn't , the nt o m e tha t i s a nunwillingnes s t o compl ywit hsomethin g tha t yo u alread yagree d t o d o . Q Ho wca nI agree , i f I didn' t kno w abou t it ? Yo u ar e makin g a - -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor , aske dandanswered .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . B YDR . SELIG : Q D o yo u believ e tha t i t i s possibl e tha t a lette r o f correction , o r a lette r o f warning , wer e no t issue dbecaus e th e operato r o f M& Rwa s a physician , an dprofile da s a n eas ytarge t fo r fines , tha t I woul dno t challeng e th e allege dviolation , i s tha t possible? MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained , i t i s

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 DR . SELIG : Well , i t goe s t o th e

intent . JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , ther e i s prosecutoria l discretion , amon g man yothe r things , whethe r the ybrin g a nenforcemen t actio nagains t you , an dno t agains t th e aircraf t nex t t o you , i t i s al l prosecutoria l discretion . An dthi s i s no t a nattemp t t o a statute . DR . SELIG : I' mgoin g t o g o t o - - I gues s w e ar e u p to , I' msorry , i s i t R-5 ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : I don' t hav e R-5 , I hav e 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 .

there ?

right . DR . SELIG : Yo u hav e fou r u p

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry , yo u ar e

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Responden t Exhibi t No . ' R- 4 fo r

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 nex t one .

Q identification. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , R- 5 i s th e {Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Responden t Exhibi t No . R- 5 fo r identification. ) B YDR . SELIG : Yo u mentione dtha t th e - - tha t Ms . William s initiate dthi s violation , base do n th e fac t tha t Mr . Bake r wa s employe db yFligh t Methods . S o tha t was , really , th e premis e fo r initiatio no f thi s - -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Le t hi mfinis hhi s questio nfirst .

B YDR . SELIG : Q I mean , tha t i s wha t i t say s o n thi s document . I s tha t a tru e statement , eve n thoug hi t i s writte nher e o nthi s document ? A 

### Tha t

i s no t

acorrec t

statement .

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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### 16 2

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 2 

### tha t yo u jus t made . Th e actio nwa s no t

initiate dbecaus e h e wa s a nemploye e o f Fligh t Methods . Q Well , i t say s here , a revie wo f FA Adat a bases , SPAS , I GET , als o doe s no t identif yEdwar dBaker , III , a s havin g a nFA A approve ddru g an dalcoho l testin g program .

I t says , befor e that , a revie wo f th e FA Adat a bas e di dno t revea l tha t Fligh t Method s ha s a nFA Aapprove ddru g an dalcoho l testin g program . ATha t i s correct . An dI actuall y conducte dthi s research , wit hLaTonya , s o I kno wexactl ywha t i t i s tha t i s bein g said . Becaus e yo u sai dtha t Fligh t Method s wa s hi s employei" , w e wer e actuall ytryin g t o figur e ou t whethe r o r no t Fligh t Method s eve nha da program . The nth e correctio ncam e tha t i t wa s Ai r Methods , whic hw e di dverif y tha t Ai r Method s di dhav e it , whic hi s irrelevant , anyway , becaus e Mr . Bake r wa s

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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### 16 3

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### workin g outsid e o f th e scop e o f hi s employmen t

wit h.^i

r Method s . Bu t th e initiatio no f thi s actio n ha dabsolutel ynothin g t o d o wit hth e fac t tha t h e worke danywher e else. But , rather , tha t th e regulator yrequiremen t wa s no t me t i n tha t neithe r you , covere dhi mi nyou r program , no r di dh e hav e a dru g progra mhimself . Q Okay . S o I stil l wa s require dt o hav e hi mo nm

ydru g program , eve nthoug hI wa s i na moratorium ? A Yes . Q D o yo u kno wwha t a moratoriu m is ? AYes , I do . Q Okay . S o m ycompan ywa s i n moratorium . An dI' mgoin g t o presen t t o you , wher e m

yflight , m

yinspecto r basically , becaus e I didn' t pas s m yfligh t examination , durin g thi s divorc e tha t I had , tha t tha t wa s whe nth e operation s wer e i nmoratorium , an d suspended . MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor .

1202) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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### 16 4

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Tha t mischaracterize s thi s document . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ther e i s nothin g i nevidenc e tha t i f ther e i s a questio n pending , as k th e question . Bu t nothin g ha s bee nproffere dfo r this .

BYDR . SELIG : Q S o yo u woul dagre e tha t i t ma yb e a fruitles s comment , o r a ninappropriat e commen t t o mak e - - i s tha t th e righ t phrase ? Tha t bein g tha t I di dn o operations , an dI wasn' t qualifie dt o d o anyoperations , an dth e companywa s no t authorize dt o d o any operations , bu t the nyo u ar e holdin g th e belie f tha t i t i s stil l prope r t o hol dm e t o thes e regulatio nchange s tha t wer e completel y undisclose dt o me .

I s tha t wha t yo u premise ? Q You r fligh t certificat e wa s curren t an dactive . Dr . Selig . The nyo u wer e require dt o abid e b yth e regulator y requirement s fo r th e dru g an dalcoho l program .

So , therefore , i f yo u didn' t wan t

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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### 16 5

4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 you r certificat e curren t an dactive , yo u coul d

hav e surrendere dyou r certificate , an dyo u didn' t d o anyo f thos e thing s because , obviously , ther e wa s n o surrende r o f cer t ificaTe .

Th e onl yreaso nw e visite dyo u i s becaus e you r certificat e wa s curren t an d active . Q Okay . Bu t I jus t hande dyo u a documen t tha t say s tha t I' munauthorize dt o fl ypar t 13 5 operations .

An dthe nI' mgoin g t o giv e yo u anothe r document , whic hi s basicall ywher e th e corporatio nwa s changed , durin g th e divorce , Septembe r o f 2008 .

S o no ww e hav e a nam e change , an d th e financial s hav e changed . Now , d o yo u stil l believ e tha t th e operatio nwa s stil l active , eve nthoug hth e compan ychanged , an d everychin g wa s change dfo r th e corporation ? AI absolutel ybeliev e tha t th e compan ywa s stil l active . An dno wyo u hav e

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 give nme , again , tw o documents . S o wha t Ri s

this ? I mean , s o - -

Thi s on e ha s th e firs t pag e - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , stop . Tel l

m e wha t yo u ar e referrin g to .

TH E WITNESS : Th e previou s on e tha t JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , I don' t kno w wha t th e previou s on e is .

TH E WITNESS : Thi s one , becaus e h e

1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 JUDG E GOODWIN :

Respondent' s 6 fo r identification . Tha t i s

{Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Responden t Exhibi t No . R- 6 fo r identification. ) TH E WITNESS : S o thi s on e ha s nothin g t o d o wit hyou r - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Thi s on e bein g Respondent' s 6 fo r identification ?

TH E WITNESS : I' msorry ?

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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### 16 7

JUDG E GOODWIN : 

### I t i s calle d

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 Respondent' s 6 fo r identification . TH E WITNESS : Okay , Respondent' s 6 fo r identification , ha s nothin g t o d o wit h whethe r o r no t you r certificat e i s active , an d operational . Thi s ha s everythin g t o d o wit h you , personally , a s you r - - wic hyour , your , you r ow ncertificate , you r persona l ai r transpor t pilo t certificate , o r you r persona l medica l certificate , i t ha s nothin g t o d o wit h you r company' s certificate .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Al l right , and- - AAn dthen , i f I ma yfinish ? Th e secon don e i s somethin g fro mth e Departmen t o f th e State . I don' t know , really , tha t i t ha s anythin g t o d o wit hth e FAA .

Bu t i nth e FA

Adat a base , yo u ar e stil l M& RHelicopters , you r nam e chang e ha s no t bee napproved , no r ha s i t bee nprocesse d b yth e FAA . S o yo u ar e stil l MS^ RHelicopter s

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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### 16 6

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 wit hcertificat e numbe r Mike , Romeo , 3 , Alpha ,

020 , kilo . Q Okay , s o - - now , yo u ar e tellin g m e tha t eve nthoug heverythin g changed , th e name , th e structure , everything , tha t m y operatio nspecification s an dcomplianc e statemen t ar e current ? I s tha t wha t yo u ar e tellin g me ? AI don ' t kno wth e answe r t o tha t question . I ca nonl ytel l yo u th e facts , a s I hav e state dthem . Yo u ar e stil l M& R Helicopters , stil l you r certificat e i s vali d
an dthi s lette r ha s absolutel ynothin g t o d o wit hyou r 13 5 operation , bu t mor e s o wit hyou r persona l pilot' s license . QOkay , bu t tha t wasn' t wha t I wa s tol dbym

yFA Ainspectors . The ytol dm e onc e I chang e th e nam e o f th e companyth e OpSpec s ar e n o longe r valid . ATha t i s a FSD O issue , an dno t min e . Q An dI hav e bee nrewr i tin g th e

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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9 1 0 1 1

J . . c 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 9 OpSpec s sinc e tha t time . S o i f I don' t eve n

hav e curren t OpSpecs , ho wca nmycertificat e b e curren t ? I f I don' t hav e curren t OpSpecs , ho wca ni t b e current ? A Q Tha t i s FSD O - - I wante dthes e ~ - I' mconfused . MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . And , again , Ms . Lozad a ha s alread ysai dtha t h e ha s curren t OpSpecs .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . B YDR . SELIG : 0 Now , Ms . Lozada , yo u sai dtha t i f th e certificat e i s stil l unde r M& R Helicopters . Well , I applie dfo r a chang e o f

nam e whe nI was , an dI hav e certificatio ntha t th e nam eha s changed .

S o i t seem s lik e no t onl yha s i t been , s o ther e ar e multipl e error s i nthi s certificate , bu t i t i s no t i nM& RHelicopters , I t i s i n- -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor .

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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### 17 0

4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### B YDR . SELIG :

Q - - DRHelicopters . -MR . RALEY : I t assum.e s fact s no t i nevidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : We l 1 , i s tha t a question ? Yo u ar e arguin g wit hth e witness , Dr . Selig . B YDR . SELIG :

Q 

### Okay , m

yquestio ni s - - JUDG E GOODWIN : I t doesn' t help , i t doesn' t hel p th e Cour t t o argu e wit hth e witness . Th e issu e i nthi s cas e i s whethe r a n entit yhavin g a nalcoho l program , a nactiv e program . Yo u ar e no t charge dwit hal l o f ch e periphera l issues . Loo k a t th e complaint , tha t i s wha t th e charg e is .

DR . SELIG : Well , everythin g i s base do nth e fac t tha t th e certificat e wa s inactive , tha t i s reall ywha t i s about .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Th e witnes s ha s answere dtha t question .

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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### 17 1

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 DR . SELIG : Okay , bu t ther e wa s

erro r wit hth e process .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Sh eha s answere d th e questio ntha t yo u posed . He r statemen t wa s tha t you r certificat e wa s i nM&R , th e fac t tha t yo u ha dothe r issue s wit hFSDO , tha t i s no t he r are a o f expertise , i t i s a differen t regulator yarea . Yo u ar e no t charge dwit h tha t . DR . SELIG : Bu t i t i s al l contingen t o f violation , becaus e i f th e operatio nwa s no t active , th e whol e thin g i s moo t . JUDG E GOODWIN : I t i s ver ysimple . I f ther e i s a charg e agains t th e certificat e holder , I haven' t hear don e piec e o f evidenc e tha t th e certificat e v;a s change ddurin g tha t perio do f time .

DR . SELIG : Well , th e OpSpec s ar e bein g rewritten , I didn' t hav e curren t OpSpecs . JUDGEGOODWIN : Idon' t car eabou t

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 DR . SELIG : Well , th e documen t

tha t sh e referenced , tha t A4 4 9 , become s invalid . JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , tha t i s a determinatio ntha t th e Cour t wil l make .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Now , yo u kee p mentionin g abou t thes e regulations , an dw e hav e talke dabou t ho wthe yhav e change dover , an dover , an dove r again , recodified , relocated .

Now , thi s i s th e reference d regulation s tha t - -

COUR T REPORTER : I f yo u ar e no t i n fron t o f a microphone , I can' t recor dwha t yo u
ar e saying . S o yo u ca nwalk , an dthe ntal k i n fron t o f a microphone .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Wha t I hav e give nyo u are , i non e
o f man yproces s o f th e code s changing , relocatin g o ndifferen t website s t o th e poin t wher e i t ha s bee nreserve dan dremoved .

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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### 17 3

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### S o yo u ar e violatin g - - i s i t

true , d o yo u agre e tha t thi s regulatio ni s somewha t har dt o track , i t i s sor t o f lik e a movin g target ?

D o yo u agre e tha t i t keep s movin g aroun dandtha t i t woul db e impossibl e t o reall yb e complian t wit hit ? A I disagree . Q Yo u disagree , okay . S o I didn' t kno wabou t it , i t keep s revolvin g - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , yo u ar e arguin g wit hth e witness , yo u aske da question , an dsh e answere dit .

B YDR . SELIG : Q I t appear s tha t - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Se l ig , yo u hav e t o staynea r th e microphone .

B YDR . SELIG : Q Tel l me , tel l me , s o wha t thi s boil s dow nto , i f I understan dit , correc t m e i f I' mincorrect , tha t yo u believ e tha t yo u ar e entitle dt o violat e m e unde r thes e

(202 ? 234-443 3 NEA LR

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### 17 4

4 

### 5 6 7 3 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### stipulations , base dpurel yo nhavin g a

certificate , whethe r i t i s inactiv e o r not , whethe r I perfor mflight s o r not , whethe r o r no t th e OpSpec s ar e curren t o r not ?

I s tha t th e basi c premise , yo u ar e statin g here , jus t th e fac t tha t o nsom e remot e websit e i t say s tha t thi s certificat e i s active , eve ni f i t i s o nth e wron g name , becaus e i t ha s bee nchanged .

D o yo u believ e tha t th e Agenc y shoul daggressivel ypursu e thi s complaint ? ADr . Selig , w e ar e here , today , becaus e yo u committe da violatio no f th e regulations . You r OpSpec s ar e current . A nam e chang e doe s no t invalidat e you r requiremen t t o fulfil l th e requirement s o f th e FA Aunde r you r certificat e number .

Becaus e yo u ar e no t changin g you r certificat e number , yo u ar e no t changin g th e certificate , yo u ar e onl ymakin g a nam e change . S o I' msorr ybu t I hav e t o

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9 9 

### disagre e wit heverythin g tha t yo u said .

0 Okay . Now , - - s o I gues s yo u ar e pleadin g tha t someho wI' mignoran t o f th e law and , therefore , I shoul db e violated . I s tha t basicall ywha t yo u ar e saying ? AI' mno t sayin g - - MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . B YDR . SELIG : Q Al l right . Now , hav e yo u eve r heard , o r hav e cas elaw , tha t specificall y allow s thi s kin do f violation , whe nsomeon e ha s no t flownanyflight s durin g th e violatio n period ? D o yo u hav e anycas e la wt o tha t effect ? AI' mno t a nattorney, I' mno t - - MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , ther e i s n o evidenc e tha t sh e ha s anylega l training , an dtha t i s no t relevant . Sustained .

S202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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### 9

1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 17 6
B YDR . SELIG : Q Okay , hav e yo u eve r hear do f a cas e Cha t ha s bee nprosecuted , whe ncher e ar e absolutel yn o flight s durin g th e violatio n period ? A Hav e I heard ? I kno wwha t w e hav e done , a s m

yinspectors , whe nI wa s a n inspector , ar e yo u askin g m e i f w e hav e eve r cite dsomebodybein g ou t o f complianc e fo r a ver ysimila r situation ? Q No t cited , hav e yo u bee n successfu l i nprosecutin g a noperatio ntha t di dn o flight s durin g thei r cite dviolation ? AI norde r fo r m e t o answe r tha t questio nI woul dhav e ha dt o hav e bee n involve di nthos e cases . S o I ca ntel l yo u tha t we , i f w e findthi s situation , an dw e hav e i nth e past , w e addres s thi s matte r i n exactl yth e sam e way .

W e revie wit , w e provid e a nLOI , w e wai t fo r th e response , w e revie wal l o f th e evidence , w e conside r th e totalit yo f th e



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### 4

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circumstances , an dthe nw e determin e whethe r o r no t w e forwar di t t o legal , o r whethe r w e handl e i t administratively .

Ther e hav e bee nman ytha t w e hav e forwarde dt o legal , andmanytha t w e handle d administratively . I t jus t depend s o nth e specifi c issues .

I nthi s cas e w e decide dt o g o legal , andw e ar e here. Bu t I don' t kno wwha t ma yhappe ni nothe r courtrooms . I onl ykno w wha t w e ar e doin g here . Q S o basicall yyo u ar e sayin g tha t i c i s never , a s fa r a s yo u know , i t ha s neve r bee nsuccessfull yprosecuted ? AI di dno t saythat . MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . Dr . Selig , th e recor dwil l spea k fo r her .

B YDR . SELIG : Q D o yo u believ e that , assumin g argumento , tha t eve ni f prope r notificatio n wa s given , an dal l th e othe r parameter s wer e

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1 2

4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 properl yi nplace , i norde r t o permi t a

violation , d o yo u thin k an ykin do f financial , an yfin e woul db e allowed , i f th e compan yha d negativ e - - ha dbee nbasicall yoperatin g a t a los s fo r mos t o f th e years ? ATha t i s no t m yarea . Q Okay . AI sai dtha t I forwar dth e lega l

cas e t o headquarters , an dtha t i s wher e the y determin e th e penaltie s there , I don' t d o tha t . Q D o yo u agre e tha t ther e ar e ne w notificatio nprocedure s no wavailabl e i nth e FAA ? MR . RALEY : Ob j ection , relevance . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained .

DR . SELIG : Ca nI giv e th e relevance ? JUDG E GOODWIN : No , th e Cour t ha s ruled , let' s mov e on .

DR . SELIG : Okay . JUDGEGOODWIN : Yo uca nargu ei t

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 I B 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### Q i YDR . SELIG : D o yo u agre e tha t th e notificatio n process , sinc e thi s violation , ha s subsequentl ychange dt o a differen t procedure ?

MR . RALEY : Objection , relevance . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . B YDR . SELIG : Q I f a noperator , let' s sa ya n operator , I' m

sorry , a mechani c perform s a service , an dwithou t bein g o nth e dru g program , i neffec t tha t aircraf t wa s no t used , bu t tha t servic e wa s repeated , wit hproper , yo u know , wit htha t perso nbein g o nth e dru g program , bu t i t wasn' t flown .

Woul dtha t stil l b e meri t fo r a violation ? ACa nyo u repea t that ? Q Let ' s sa ytha t Mr . Bake r di da roto r balance , an dh e wasn' t on , an dI didn' t kno wabou t it , tha t h e wasn' t o nmyparticula r

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1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 dru g program . Bu t the nh e repeate dtha t exac t

sam e thing , whe nh e wa s o nit . But , i nth e interim , th e aircraf t wa s no t flown ? AS o ca nI jus t rephras e you r questio ns o tha t I ca nse e i f I understoo dit ? Th e firs t thin g tha t h e did , h e wa s no t i na program , th e secon dh e was , i s tha t wha t yo u
ar e saying ? Q Yes , an di nth e interi mth e aircraf t wa s no t flown . A Th e fac t tha t th e aircraf t ha s flov/ no r no t ha s absolutel yn o bearin g o nth e safety-sensitiv e wor k performed , becaus e i f you r certificat e wa s active , the ni t wa s jus t fortuitou s tha t i t wasn' t flown .

S o th e firs t on e woul dstil l b e a violation , n o matte r ho wyo u slic e it . An dth e secon done , i f h e wa s i na program , i nyou r program , o r hi s ow nprogram , lik e th e regulatio nrequired , the nther e wouldn' t b e - - Q S o yo u ar e basicall ysayin g tha t

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3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 i f Mr . Bake r di da roto r balanc e o nda yone ,

an dth e nex t --s o tha t wa s a violation . Bu t i f repeate dtha t o nda ytwo , i t woul dstil l b e
a violation , eve ni f i t i s on e da yaway ? AI don' t thin k tha t i s wha t I said . MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . B YDR . SELIG : Q Well , I' mcharacterizin g wha t yo u said . JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , - -

B YDR . SELIG : Q Yo u ar e basicall ysayin g ~ - MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , I' mno t intereste di nyou r characterization . I wil l revie wth e transcript .

DR . SELIG : Yes , sir . Yes , You r Honor . I thin k I hav e complete dm y questioning .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yredirect ? MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor , jus t

a couple .

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### REDIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . RALEY : Q Ms . Lozada , ar e par t 11 9 certificat e holder s require dt o kno wth e requirement s containe dwithi nth e regulations ? AYes , the yare . Q Wher e ar e th e employe r o r a n employe e definition s contained , wit hregar dt o th e dru g an dalcoho l testin g progra mi nth e regulacions? AA t th e beginnin g o f th e regulations . Q Wha t specifically , wha t regulations ? A I nth e definitio nsection . Bac k the ni t wa s i npar t 121 , an dno wi npar t 120 . Q Ar e thos e regulation s reference d
o nth e documen t i nA-2 , th e A449 ? AYes . Q Than k you . JUDG EGOODWIN : 

### Anyfurthe r question s o f

thi s witness ?

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 DR . SELIG : No . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ms . Lozada , I a m goin g t o instruc t yo u no t discus s you r testimon ywit hanybod yprio r t o th e conclusio n
o f th e hearing . Th e Cour t doe s no t se e an y furthe r nee do f thi s witness , th e witnes s i s fre e t o go . MR . RALEY : You r Honor , I woul d lik e t o reserv e he r fo r rebutta l purposes .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Tha t i s you r call . MR . RALEY : Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : Fo r th e record , th e Cour t doesn' t nee dth e witness .

TH E WITNESS : Than k you . JUDG E GOODWIN : Let' s d o this . I t i s 2:11 , let' s tak e a fiv e minut e recess .

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor .

record . JUDG E GOODWIN : W e ar e of f th e

(Whereupon , t h e abov e - en t i 11e d matte r wen t of f th e recor da t 2:1 1 p.m . an dwen t bac k o nth e recor d

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9 3 4 5 6 7 3 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 a t 2:3 2 p.m. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : O nth e record . Cal l vou r nex t witness ?

please .

Court ? MR . RALEY : Ms . Am yErankel ,

DR . SELIG : Ma yi t pleas e th e

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' mthinkin g o f a preliminar ythought . Let' s d o this , wha t i s you r objection ?

DR . SELIG : M yobjectio ni s tha t I requeste dinterrogator yinformation , wit hful l detai l o f al l witnesse s tha t h e wa s goin g t o present , a statemen t o f matter s concerned , documents , evidenc e tha t h e wa s goin g t o submit . Non e o f tha t wa s submitte dt o me .

S o thi s i s th e firs t tim e I ' m hearin g o f thi s patient , excus e me , o f thi s client , thi s witness , excus e me .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Onl yi f yo u wil l allo wm e t o refe r t o som e o f your > witnesse s a s clients , a s oppose dt o patients , Dr . Selig .

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3 4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Let ' s ge t t o th e har mo f thi s .

Wa s h e notified , durin g discovery , o f th e appearanc e o f thi s witness ?

MR . RALEY : Augus t 25th , 2011 . JUDG E GOODWIN : An dwa s h e notifie do f th e substanc e o f he r testimony ?

MR . RALEY : H e was . DR . SELIG : I didn' t see , I don' t remembe r gettin g that .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wh ydon' t yo u sho w tha t t o Dr . Selig ? And , i nth e meantime , I wil l swea r th e witness .

B yth e way , I' mgoin g t o authoriz e th e Cour t Reporte r t o thro wthing s a t anyon e wh o walk s awa yfro mth e microphone . Whereupon , AM YFRANKE L

wa s calle da s a witnes s b yCounse l fo r th e Complainan t and , havin g bee ndul ysworn , assume dth e witnes s stand , wa s examine dan d testifie da s follows :

DR . SELIG : I neve r go t thi s

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1

9 ~ ) document , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : I s tha t you r addres s o nth e to p o f th e correspondence ?

fax .

numbe^r ?

thi s one . DR . SELIG : I t i s som e kin do f a

JUDG E GOODWIN : I s tha t you r fa x

DR . SELIG : Augus t - - I neve r go t

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Mr . Raley , proffe r wha t yo u ar e showin g Dr . Selig . Th e Complainant' s respons e t o Respondent' s discover yrequest , an dthi s wa s - -

MR . RALEY : Th e certificat e i s there , i t i s th e las t page . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : And , Mr . Raley , yo u ar e a nOffice r o f th e Court ?

MR . RALEY : Yes , I am . You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u nee dt o ste p bac k b yth e microphone .

DR . SELIG : I' mi nerror . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

:>? DR . SELIG : I di dse e this . JUDG E GOODWIN : Than k you , Dr . Selig , I appreciat e it .

DR . SELIG : Ca nw e hav e he r tomorrow , s o tha t I ca nrevie wthing s - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , w e hav e th e witne^s s here , an dw e ca nstart .

DR . SELIG : I coul dhav e Mr . Bake r g o an dthe ni f sh e ca ncom e tomorrow , an dthe n I ca nprepar e fo r her .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , wha t w e ca n d o i s w e ca nd o direc t today , an dw e ca nd o th e cros s tomorrow , an dtak e Mr . Baker . Th e witnes s i s here .

Ther e wa s a nobjectio nt o he r testimony , Dr . Seli g ha s represented , an dI appreciat e that . Dr . Selig , yo u represente d tha t yo u did , i nfact , ge t th e proffere d testimony , s o th e objectio ni s overruled .

Woul dyo u pleas e stat e you r name , fo r th e record , an dspel l you r firs t an dlas t

name ?

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 TH E WITNESS : M ynam e i s Amy , A-M Y , Frankel , F-R~A-N-K-E-L , a s i nlima .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Counsel ? DIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . RALEY : 0 Goo dafternoon , Ms . Frankel .

. AGoo dafternoon . 0 Ar e yo u currentl yemployed ? AYe s . 

### QWher ear eyo uemployed ? ATh eFedera lAviatio n Administration
. Q Wha t i s you r jo btitl e a t th e Federa l Aviatio nAdministration ? ACurrentl yI' mo na detai l i n aviatio nsafet ytechnica l specialist , wit hth e offic e o f audi t an devaluation . Q Prio r t o - - a t wha t poin t di dyo u begi nthi s detail , a t wha t time ? ANovembe r o f 2011 . Q Prio r t o thi s detail , wher e wer e yo u employed ?

(202 } 234-443 3 NEA LR

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9 9 ATh e dru g abatemen t division .

Q Fo r ho wlon g wer e yo u employe d wit hth e dru g abatemen t division ? AFo r ove r seve nyears . Q And , jus t t o b e clear , th e dru g abatemen t divisio no f th e Federa l Aviatio n Administration , i s tha t correct ? 

### A Ye s . Q Fo r ove r seve nyears . Wha t wa s you r jo btitl e a t the , i nth e dru g abatemen t division ? 

### A I wa s th e fiel doperation s branc h manager . Q Wha t

di dyou r jo bdutie s includ e
a s th e fiel doperation s branc hmanager ? AM yjo bdutie s include dreviewin g submitte dlega l cases , an ddeterminin g recommendatio nfo r civi l penalties , schedulin g
o f sanctions , acceptin g voluntar ydisclosure . Q Ho war e yo u familia r wit hthi s 

### case ? A 

### Ireviewe dthi s cas ewhe ni t

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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### 19 0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 arrive dt o m ybranc ha t headquarters .

Q An dbyrevie wwha t d o yo u mean ? ATh e cas e wa s forwarded , I reviewe d th e informatio ntha t wa s provided , th e LOI , th e evidenc e tha t wa s collecte ddurin g th e inspection . Q I' dlik e t o tur nyou r attentio nt o
som e o f th e regulator yquestion s a t issu e i n thi s case . D o appendice s I an dJ o f Par t 120 , a s i neffec t i n2008 , defin e th e ter m employer ? 

### A Ye s Q Wha t i s a nemploye r unde r thos e regula t ions ? AA nemploye r i s a 11 9 certificat e holde r tha t ha s authorizatio nt o perfor m13 5 operations . Q Wa s th e Responden t a nemploye r unde r th e regulations ? 

### A Ye s . 

### QD o appendice s Ian dJ , par t 121 , a s i neffec t

o f th etim eo f

th eviolations ,

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### 19 1 defin e th e ter memployee , o r covere demployee ?

9 1 0 I T 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### A Yes .

Q Wha t i s a nemploye e unde r th e regulations ? AA nemploye e i s a safety-sensitiv e employee , someon e wh o wa s hire dt o perfor m safety-sensitiv e functions , eithe r directl yo r bycontract . 

### Q performed ? An dfo r who mar e thos e function s

AFo r a nemployer . Q Wer e th e function s tha t Mr . Bake r
wa s performin g considere dsafety-sensitive ? 

### A Yes . Q Why ? ABecaus e the ywer e maintenanc e o r preventiv e maintenance . Q Wa s Mr . Bake r a nemploye e o f Respondent , unde r th e regulations ? 

### A Ye s . Q Why ? 

### ABecaus eh eperforme dmaintenanc e

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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### 19 2

1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 o r preventiv e maintenanc e o na naircraf t tha t

wa s unde r MS^R ' s 13 5 certificate . Q Hav e yo u hear do f th e ter m moonlighting , o r moonlighter ? A I have. 0 Wha t i s moonlighting ? AMoonlightin g i s whe na nemploye e ha s a full-tim e position , bu t work s elsewhere , t o wor k o nhi s of f hours . Q V-Jha

t effect , i f any , doe s Mr . Baker' s statu s a s a moonlighte r hav e o nthi s hearing , o nthi s case ? AI t ha s n o effect . Q Why ? ABecaus e ther e i s n o moonlightin g provisio nunde r th e regulations . Q I' dlik e t o sho wyo u wha t i s bein g offere da s Complainant' s exhibi t A-11 .

{Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . 1 1 fo r identification. )

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 B YMR . RALEY :

Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document ? AYes . 0 Wha t i s thi s document ? AThi s i s th e Federa l Registe r Fina l Rul e fro mJanuar y12th , 2004 , fo r th e dru g an d alcoho l progra mfo r th e FAA . 

### Q Doe s thi s documen t addres s th e moonlightin g provision ? AYes . Q I' dlik e t o direc t you r attentio n t o pag e 184 1 o f A-11 , th e to p left-han d paragraph , beginnin g o nFebruar y28th . 

### A Ye s . Q Doe s thi s paragrap haddres s th e notic e o f propose drulemakin g tha t wa s issue d

o nFebruar y28th , 2002 ? AYes , i t does . JUDG E GOODWIN : Whil e sh e i s lookin g a t that , Mr . Raley , doe s wha t you'v e give nth e Court , th e Federa l Registe r volum e 69 , numbe r 7 , page s 184 0 throug h1860 , ar e al l

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 th e page s here , s o I don' t hav e t o g o throug h

them ? MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : The nI' mno t goin g t o repaginate . Wha t w e wil l d o i s cal l th e firs t pag e is , obviously , th e cove r shee t o f th e Federa l Registe r Par t 4 , Departmen t o f Transportation , 1 4 CF RPar t 121 , date dJanuar y 12th , 2004 . An dth e firs t paginatio nbegin s a t pag e 184 0 o f th e Federa l Register , an d continue s throug h1860 . Sir , wha t wa s th e pag e tha t yo u mad e referenc e to ?

MR . RALEY : I' msorry , i t i s 1841 . JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . An d th e questio nwas , wa s ther e somethin g her e havin g t o d o wit hmoonlighting ?

MR . RALEY : Basicall yth e questio n
was , doe s thi s paragrap hdiscus s th e Notic e o f Propose dRulemakin g - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Whic hparagraph ? MR . RALEY : Th e firs t paragrap ho nth e to p

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 lef t corner , beginnin g o nFebruar y28th , 2002 . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ca nth e witnes s
answe r th e question ?

TH E WITNESS : Yes , i t does
. JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t doe s i t say ?

Q A Q A B YMR . RALEY : G o ahea dan drea di t Rea dit ? Yes . O nFebruar y28th , 2002 , th e FAA publishe da Notic e o f Propose dRulemakin g (NPRM ) Notic e 02-04(6 7 F R9365) . W e propose d clarifyin g regulator ylanguage , increasin g consistenc ybetwee nth e antidru g an dalcoho l misus e preventio nprogra mregulations , wher e possible , an deliminatin g regulator y provision s cha t wer e n o longe r appropriate .

W e propose dthes e change s t o improv e safet yan dlesse nadministrativ e burden . Th e commen t perio dfo r Notic e 02-0 4

wa s schedule dt o clos e Ma y29th , 2002 , bu t wa s extende dunti l Jul v29th , 2002 , a s a resul t o f

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### 19 6

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 

### 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 publi c reques t fo r extension . Shoul dI continue ? Q No , tha t i s fine . MR . RALEY : Unles s You r Hono r - - JUDG E GOODWIN : No . 

### BYMR . RALEY : Q Thi s notic e wa s publishe do nwha t date ? Thi s rule , I' msorry , thi s rul e wa s publishe do nwha t date ? AThi s rul e wa s publishe do nJanuar y 24th , I' msorry , excus e me , Januar y1 2 th , 200 4 .Q An dI ' dlik e t o dra wyou r attentio nt o pag e 1840 . AOkay . 0 Midwa ydow nth e firs t column , th e headin g i s dates . Coul dyo u jus t pleas e rea d wha t i t say s there ? A.Dates : Thes e amendment s becom e effectiv e Februar y11th , 2004 . Q Than k you . I' dlik e t o direc t you r attention , again , t o pag e 1841 .

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### 19 7

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1
2 9 

### AYe s .

Q I nth e definitio nsection , i nth e table , abou t midwa ydow nthroug hth e page , di d th e tabl e lis t th e principa l change s t o appendi xI o f th e dru g testin g regulations , doe s thi s addres s anychange s t o th e employe r o r employe e definition ? A Yes . Q Wha t doe s - - wha t change s wer e mad e t o th e employe r definition ? AI t says , change s th e definitio no f employe r t o clarif ytha t employe r ma yus e a contrac t employe e t o perfor msafety-sensitiv e function , i f th e contrac t employe e i s include d i nth e 1 , employer' s FAA-mandate dantidru g program . Or , 2 , contractor' s FAA-mandate d antidru g program , whil e performin g a safety

sensitiv e functio no nbehal f o f tha t contractor , i.e. , withi nth e scop e o f employmen t wit hth e contractor . Q Than k you .

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JUDG E GOODWIN : Jus t fo r th e

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 I S 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 record , w e ar e lookin g a t th e tabl e o f pag e

1841 , th e banne r i s Principa l Change s Appendi x1 (Dru g Testing) .

An di f yo u dro p dow nthre e lines , tha t i s wher e yo u - -

MR . RALEY : An djus t fo r th e recor d- - JUDG E GOODWIN : I' mdoin g i t fo r purpos e o f th e record .

MR . RALEY : Jus t a quic k note , tha t i s actuall yAppendi xI , i t refer s t o Appendi xI , par t 121 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , i t coul db e one , i t coul db e a nI .

MR . RALEY ; Yes , sir . B YMR . RALEY : 0 I' dno wlik e t o sho wyo u wha t - - MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e tha t Complainant' s Exhibi t A-1 1 b e entere dint o evidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , an y

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### 19 9

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 

## e 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 9 

### ob j ec t ion ? DR . SELIG : Onl yfro mth e regar d

tha t thi s documen t doe s no t disclos e anykin d
o f procedur e fo r notificatio nt o th e affecte d oarties . JUDG E GOODWIN : Overruled . Appendi xI , fo r identification , i s receive d int o evidence . Th e Cour t i s als o takin g judicia l notice .

{The documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A-1 1 wa s admitte di n evidence. ) B YMR . RALEY : Q Le t m e sho wyo u wha t ha s bee n marke da s Complainant' s exhibi t A-12 .

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A-1 2 fo r identification. ) B YMR . RALEY :

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Ms . Frankel , d o yo u recogniz e thi s

document ? A I do . JUDG E GOODWIN : Befor e yo u procee d I' mgoin g t o as k you , again , .Mr . Raley , wha t yo u hav e give nth e Cour t is , - - a t th e to p i t say s Federa l Registe r Volum e 74 . Numbe r 92 , date dThursday , Ma y14th , 2009 .

Th e firs t paginatio nnumbe r i s 22649 , th e las t pag e i s 22668 . Ar e al l th e page s containe dherein ?

MR . RALEY ; Yes , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : I t i s marke dfo r identification .

MR . RALEY : Jus t on e second . You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sure .

(Paus e . ) DR . SELIG : Ma yi t pleas e th e Court ?

o f whack ? JUDG E GOODWIN : I s somethin g ou t

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4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 7 DR . SELIG : Th e dat e o f Chi s

documen t i s afte r th e violatio ndate , i t i s
no t pertinen t t o - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Ther e i s n o question , th e tim e t o objec t i s whe ni t i s offere dfo r evidence , an daddres s i t a t tha t t im e . DR . SELIG : I' msorry .

B YMR . RALEY : Wha t i s thi s document , M s Q Frankel ? AThi s i s th e Federa l Registe r fo r dru g abatement , fo r th e FAA . I t i s a fina l rul e regardin g th e combinatio no f wha t use dt o b e Par t 121 , Appendice s I an dJ , int o it s ow n part , t o par t 12 0 . Q An dwha t i s th e dat e o f thi s document ? A Thi s dat e i s Thursday , Ma y14th , 200 9 . Q I' dlik e t o direc t you r attentio n midwa ydow nth e cente r column , o npag e 22649 .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 DR . SELIG ; You r Honor , I object . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ther e i s n o questio npending .

DR . SELIG : I t i s irrelevant . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ther e i s nothin g pending . Dr . Selig . G o ahead , counsel .

B YMR . RALEY : Q Coul dyo u pleas e rea dwha t i t say s afte r summary ? AYes . Summary . Thi s actio namend s th e FAA' s dru g an dalcoho l regulation , t o plac e the m

i na ne wpar t . Th e FA Ai s no t makin g an ysubstantiv e change s t o th e dru g an d alcoho l regulation s i nthi s rulemaking .

MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o offe r Complainant' s A-1 2 int o evidence . JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig ?

DR . SELIG : Objection . JUDG E GOODWIN : Overruled . I t goe s t o weight . Dr . Selig .

DR . SELIG : I' msorry ?

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : You r objectio n

goe s t o th e weigh t th e Cour t wil l giv e it .

DR . SELIG : Well , I gues s - - JUDG E GOODWIN : I t i s note dtha t i t i s afte r th e dat e o f th e violation . Howeve r th e summar ysay s tha t al l the yhav e don e i s compil e the mint o on e reg .

You r objectio ngoe s t o th e weigh t th e Cour t wil l giv e th e evidence , no t whethe r i c i s admissible .

DR . SELIG : I f i t ma ypleas e th e Court , comment ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : No , th e objectio n i s overruled . G o ahead , counsel .

MR . RALEY : I mov e tha t - - JUDG E GOODWIN : I t ha s alread y bee nreceive di nevidence .

(Th e documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A-1 2 wa s admitte di n evidence. )

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### 20 4

1 2 3 4

. 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q MR . RALEY : Than k you . You r Hono r B YMR . RALEY : Ms . Frankel , wa s Mr . Bake r unde r Respondent' s dru g o r alcoho l testin g program , a t th e tim e o f th e violation ? A No . Q Wa s Mr . Bake r unde r hi s ow ndru g o r alcoho l testin g violation , a t th e tim e tha t th e progra m--a t th e tim e o f th e violation ?

I' msorry , le t m e sa ytha t again . Wa s Mr . Bake r unde r hi s ow ndru g o r alcoho l testin g program , a t th e tim e o f th e violation ? A No . Q I' dlik e t o sho wyo u wha t i s bein g marke da s Complainant' s Exhibi t A-13 .

(Whereupon , th e above-reference d t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A-1 3 fo r identification. } B YMR . RALEY : Q A D o yo u recogniz e thi s document ? Ido
.

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### 20 5

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### 0 Wha t i s thi s document ?

AThi s documen t i s a lega l interpretation , base do nquestion s tha t wer e brough t fort hfroma 13 5 certificat e holder . Q Wha t relevance , i f any , doe s thi s hav e i nthi s matter , o r doe s thi s documen t hav e anyrelevanc e i nthi s matter ? AI t does . Q Wha t i s that ? AThi s documen t state s tha t - - on e moment , please .

(Witnes s review s document. ) TH E WITNESS : Thi s document , i n on e part , thi s documen t state s tha t th e certificat e holder' s maintenanc e - - abou t th e certificat e holder' s maintenanc e program .

An dho wth e maintenance , o f a n aircraf t tha t i s o na Par t 13 5 certificate , mus t b e hel dt o a 13 5 certificat e standards , eve ni f i t i s no t bein g flow na s a Par t 135 .

B YMR . RALEY : Q Ca nyo u jus t point , specifically .

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### 20 6

1 i nth e document , wher e i t talk s abou t this ? 2 AO nth e firs t page , wher e - - th e 3 f irs c tim e i nitalics , wher e i t says , ou r 4 answer . Anaircraf t tha t i s liste do nth e 5 operatio nspecification s o f a certificat e 6 holde r conductin g flight s unde r Titl e 14 , Cod e 7 o f Federa l Regulations , Par t 135 , mus t b e S maintaine dunde r th e certificat e holder' s 9 maintenanc e program . 1 0 Tha t suc ha naircraf t i s owne dan d 1 1 periodicall yoperate dunde r (1 4 CFR ) Par t 91 , 1 2 b

ya perso nothe r tha nth e certificate-holder , 1 3 doe s no t lesse ntha t obligatio ni nanyway . 1 4 Q Doe s thi s documen t addres s 1 5 maintenanc e performed , non-emergenc y 1 6 maintenanc e performe db ya mechanic , o r a 1 7 perso nno t meetin g th e dru g an dalcoho l 1 8 testin g regulations ? 1 9 AI' msorry , ca nyo u repea t th e 2 0 question ? QDoe s thi s documen t 2 1 addres s wha t woul dhappe ni f ther e i s a 2 2 violation , i f non-emergenc ymaintenanc e wa s

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### 20 7

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 performe do naircraft , b ya perso nno t meetin g th e dru g andalcoho l testin g requirements ? AI t does . 0 An dwha t doe s i t say ? AO nth e secon dpage , abou t a littl e bi t mor e tha nhalfwa ydown , th e sentenc e begin s wit habsent .

Absen t th e circumstance s describe d i nsectio n135.251(c) , whic hi s th e emergenc y maintenance , anysuc hmaintenanc e woul db e a violation . Th e violatio nwoul doccu r a t th e tim e suc hmaintenanc e i s performed , an d whethe r th e aircraf t i s flowni s no t relevant . Q And , jus t fo r th e sak e o f th e record , coul dyo u pleas e rea dth e questio n tha t tha t answe r addresses ? A Yes . Q I t i s questio nnumbe r 3 , i f a n (sic ) FA

R13 5 aircraf t ha dmaintenanc e don e by a mechani c tha t doe s no t mee t th e dru g an d alcoho l requirement s o f FA R135 , an d121 , i s

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### 20 8

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 tha t FA R13 5 operato r i nviolatio no f FA R13 5

an d121 , i f h e doe s not , underlined , fly ? I f yes , why ? Q Ho wi s tha t applicabl e here ? AI t i s applicabl e her e becaus e maintenanc e wa s performe do na naircraf t tha t Wa s o nM&R' s 13 5 certificate , althoug hi t wa s
no t flow nfo r Par t 13 5 afte r th e maintenanc e Wa s done . Q An daccordin g t o thi s interpretation , woul dtha t b e a violation ? AYe s . MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e tha t Complainant' s Exhibi t A-1 3 b e admitte dint o evidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , an y objection ? DR . SELIG : I objec t because , firs t o f all , thi s documen t i s fro m2006 . I n 200 6 I gues s th e ne wregulatio nwoul db e in . Bu t th e person s maintainin g thi s aircraf t wer e unde r Par t 13 5 - - I' msorry , wer e no t o nan y

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### 20 9

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 9 dru g program , o f an ykind . Wher e Mr . Bake r wa s o na dru g program . S o i t i s no t a napplicabl e cas e scenario . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ob j ectio n overruled . Agency' s 1 3 fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Agency' s 13 .

(Th e documen t referre dto , havin g bee npreviousl ymarke dfo r identificatio na s Complainan t Exhibi t No . 1 3 wa s admitte di n evidence. )



### Q B YMR . RALEY : Ms . Frankel , no wI woul dlik e t o discuss , wit hyou , th e genera l sanctio n determination .

Yo u indicated , earlier , tha t yo u wer e involve di nth e determinatio no f th e sanctio ni nthi s case , i s tha t correct ? 

### A Ye s . 

### QI' dlik et o shov ; yo uwha t i s now bein g marke da s A-14 , Complainant' s Exhibi t A

-

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 14 . I t i s a nexcerp t o f th e 2150.3 B Sanctio n

Guidance . (Whereupon , th e above-reference d

t o documen t wa s marke da s Complainan t Exhibi t No . A-1 4 fo r identification. } B YMR . RALEY : Q D o yo u recogniz e thi s document , Ms . Frankel ? A 

### 0 A

Chapte r 7 ? 

### I do .

Wha t i s thi s document ? Thi s i s a - - JUDG E GOODWIN : I s thi s th e entir e

MR . RALEY : No , i t i s not . You r Honor . Thi s i s relevan t excerpts . I d o hav e th e entir e 2150.3 B i f yo u woul dlik e t o hav e I t - ~ JUDG E GOODWIN : I'l l adjus t tha t

onc e w e ge t there .

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Hono r TH E WITNESS : Thi s i s a nexcerp t

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### 21 1 fro m2150.3B , whic hi s ou r Guidance , Sanctio n 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Guidance . B YMR . RALEY :

Q I s i t publicl yavailable ? AYes , online . Q I ngenera l ho wd o yo u determin e th e sanctio ni ncase s suc ha s this ? AI ngenera l w e loo k a t th e busines s tha t w e ar e lookin g at , an dw e loo k a t th e violatio ntha t th e busines s has . Q Turnin g t o pag e B-3 , an dI wil l giv e yo u a momen t t o ge t there . AOkay . Q I t i s abou t two-third s o f th e wa y throug hthi s pil e o f paper . AOkay . Q Wha t typ e o f entit ywa s Respondent ? ATh e Responden t wa s a grou p 4
en t ity . Q Whywa s Responden t a grou p 4 entity ?

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### 21 2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AAgrou p 4 entit yi s a smal l

business , whic hi s a noperator , tha t operate s unde r par t 13 5 wit hn o mor e tha nfiv e pilots , andn o mor e tha nfiv e aircraft . Q Doe s th e FA Aconside r whethe r a n entit yi s a smal l business ? A Q Yes . How ? AB yth e Smal l Busines s Administration , an dho wmuc hrevenu e i t takes , an dho wmanyemployee s i t has . Q Now , turnin g t o pag e B-4 , wha t i s th e sanctio nrang e fo r a grou p 4 operator? AFo r a grou p 4 operato r a minimum , somethin g tha t woul dfal l unde r th e minimu m violations , woul db e fro m55 0 dollar s t o 2,19 9 dollars . Moderat e i s 2,20 0 dollars , t o 4,39 9 dollars . An da maximu mi s a 4,40 0 dollar s t o 11,00 0 dollars .

Q A 

### Turnin g t o pag eB-3 1 Ye s .

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### 21 3 Q Wha t violation , wha t sanctio n

4 5 6 7 3 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 rang e i s applicabl e fo r th e violation s i nthi s

cas e :

9 

### A Th e violatio ni nthi s cas e woul d b e a maximumcivi l penalty . Q An dwhyi s that ? ABecaus e i t wa s failur e t o includ e a safety-sensitiv e employe e i na nFAA-mandate d dru g andalcoho l testin g program . Q And , fo r th e record , yo u ar e readin g fro mpag e B-31 , unde r Figur e 5 , excus e me , B-5-b , wit hth e headin g coverage ?

Yes . An di t i s th e su b1 , i s tha t A Q correct ? AYes . MR . RALEY : A t thi s tim e I woul d lik e t o mov e t o hav e Complainant' s Exhibi t A 1 4 entere dint o evidence .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' mno t goin g t o admit , andher e i s why . I t i s no t th e entir e regulation , i nit s totality . I wil l tak e

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4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 judicia l notic e o f 2150.3B , whic hwa s i n

force , an di nexistence , a t th e tim e o f th e inciden t i nquestion .

MR . RALEY : Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : I don' t wan t t o hav e t o dra g a thre e inc hthing . S o th e Cour t wil l certainl ytak e judicia l notic e o f th e sanctio ntables , th e Cour t ha s worke dwit hth e sanctio ntables .

And , i nfairnes s t o Responden t i t i s onl yfai r tha t i f a portio no f th e table , an dno t i nit s entirety , admitte dint o evidence , eve nthoug hth e Cour t hav e excluded , i t probabl yisn' t relevant .

MR . RALEY ; Yes , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : So , Dr . Selig , I wil l sustai nyou r objectio nt o th e admissio n
o f this , bu t th e Cour t wil l tak e judicia l notice . 

### Q B YMR . RALEY : Wer e ther e an ymitigating , o r aggravatin g factor s i nthi s case ?

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9 1 0 •1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 A

Q Yes . Wha t wer e thos e factors ? AI t wa s a naggravatin g facto r tha t performanc e wa s don e o na naircraf t b ya safety-sensitiv e employee , tha t wa s no t

covere dunde r a dru g an dalcoho l progra munde r M& Rdru g an dalcoho l program . Q Specificall ywha t performance ? ATh e performanc e tha t Mr . Bake r provided . Q Wha t wa s th e initia l sanctio ni n thi s case ? A Th e initia l sanctio nwa s 5,40 0 dollars . Q Afte r thi s cas e wa s initiated , wa s i t adjusted ? A Yes . Q Why ? ATher e wer e som e stal e violations . Q Wha t i s th e sanctio nth e FA Aseek s t o impos e here ? A4,40 0 dollars . Q 

### I s th esanctio ntha t th eF7\ Aseek s

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### 21 6

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

o 

### 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 t o impos e here , i naccordanc e wit hth e

Sanctio nGuidance ? AYes . Q Doe s th e FA

Aconside r inabilit yt o pay ? AYes . 0 Wha t document s doe s th e FA A requir e t o mak e th e determinatio no f inabilit y t o pay ? A W e reques t thre e year s o f federa l incom e taxreturns .

MR . RALEY : Tha t i s al l I hav e a t thi s time . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , d o yo u wan t t o cross-examin e thi s witnes s now , o r d o yo u wan t t o pu t Mr . Bake r on ?

Mr . Raley , i s thi s th e conclusio n o f you r case , absen t rebuttal ?

MR . RALEY : You r Honor , i t is . W e have , w e reserv e a rebutta l witness , dependin g o nDr . Selig' s testimony , a t thi s time.

JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig , i nlie u

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 5 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 o f that , wha t th e FAAi s sayin g i s tha t thi s

i s hi s las t witnes s i nhis

- case-in-chie f . Whic hmean s a t thi s poin t h e woul drest , i f yo u cal l witnesses , h e ma yrecal l rebutta l witnesses . Now , i nlie u o f you r earlie r Comment , d o yo u wan t t o cross-examin e thi s vyitnes s now , o r woul dyo u prefe r tha t I excus e thi s witness , an drecal l he r firs t thin g i n th e morning ?

DR . SELIG : Yes , please . JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l righ t . An d the nyo u woul dpu t o nMr . Baker , then ?

DR . SELIG : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Mr . Raley , d o yo u hav e an yobjectio nt o that ? Al l I' m doin g i s allowin g hi mt o star t hi s cross examinatio nfirs t thin g i nth e morning .

Yo u will , obviously , hav e a chanc e t o redirec t i nth e morning , an dtha t doesn' t impac t you r abilit yt o cove r bot hwitnesses .

I kno wi t i s a littl e bi t - - bu t

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### 21 8

1 2 3 4

c 

### 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 i t i s a nadministrativ e hearing , I ca nprett y

muc hd o anythin g I wan t to .

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Withi nth e contex t o f rule s an dregulations .

MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor , an d tha t wil l b e fine .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t I' mtryin g t o d o i s t o b e fai r t o Dr . Selig , becaus e h e ma y hav e ha dth e documen t but , apparently , overlooke dit . An dI thin k i t i s a fai r wa y t o proceed . I don' t thin k i t i s anyprejudic e t o you . I t ma yb e a prejudic e t o th e witness , becaus e sh e can' t d o anythin g unti l

w e kno w wha t i s goin g t o happen .

Al l righ t then , Ms . Frankel , I' m goin g t o excus e yo u today . I' mgoin g t o instruc t yo u tha t yo u ar e no t t o discus s you r testimonywit hanyone .

A t 9 o'cloc k tomorro wmornin g I woul dlik e yo u t o reappea r i nth e Court , an d

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### 21 9

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### i f w e conclude dDr . Selig' s witness , i f w e

concluded , I wil l as k yo u t o jus t b e up her e again , andw e v/il l g o fro mthere .

An dI thin k tha t yo u ca nste p dow n. TH E WITNESS : Than k you .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o a t thi s point , ha dth e cros s take nplace , an dth e redirec t take nplace , tha t woul db e th e FAA' s case , am I correct ? MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . Withou t prejudic e t o either , procedurally , Dr . Seli g i f yo u wan t to , a t thi s point , I wil l allo w yo u t o cal l Mr . Baker .

DR . SELIG : Than k you , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msur e h e want s t o stic k aroun dtomorrow . Whei'eupon , EDWAR D L . BAKE R v/a s calle da s a witnes s byth e Representativ e fo r th e Responden t and , havin g bee ndul y

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5 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 

### l a 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 sworn , assume dth e witnes s stand , wa s examine d

an dtestifie da s follows :

JUDG E GOODWIN : I as k yo u t o stat e you r nam e fo r th e record , an dspel l you r firs t

an dlas t name .

TH E WITNESS : M ynam e i s Edwar dL . Baker , III . E-D-W-A-R-D , L a s i nlima . Baker , B-A-K-E-R , II I .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Dr . Selig ? DR . SELIG : Than k you . DIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YDR . SELIG : Q Mr . Baker , ho wlon g hav e yo u - - ho wlon g i s you r experienc e wit hbot hmilitar y
an dcivilia naviation , you r experience , an d ho wfa r doe s i t dat e back ? AI receive dm ymilitar yaviatio n trainin g i n1980 , a s a pilot , an dinvolve d wit hmaintenanc e a t th e time . An dthe na s I lef t activ e duty , an djoine dth e Nationa l Guard , I' m

stil l involve dwit haviatio n maintenance , t o thi s date , a s a maintenanc e

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3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 office r fo r th e Ne wJerse yNationa l Guard . An dI mento r man yo f th e youn g mechanic s dow nthere . I receive dm ycivilia n pilot' s licens e i n1984 , an dm yairfram e an d powe r plan t mechanic s rating , fro m Peterboroug hSchoo l i n1987 . Q Okay , ar e yo u - - JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry , wa s tha t you r A&P ?

TH E WITNESS ; Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : I n1987 ? TH E WITNESS : I n1987 . B YMR . RALEY : Q Hav e yo u eve r serve di na supervisor yrol e wit hth e military ? AYes , I' m. currentl yi na supervisor yrol e there , wit hth e Nationa l Guard , a s a maintenanc e officer . Q Ar e yo u i na dru g progra mfo r th e Nationa l Guard ? AYes , I am . Al l militar ypersonne l

ar e unde r a dru g abatemen t program .

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### 22 2 Q An dho wfa r doe s tha t dat e back ?

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 9 9 

### AI' dsaysinc e I joine dth e

military . Q A I n1980 ? I n1977 . Q I n'77 , okay . Hav e yo u continuousl ybee no na dru g an dalcoho l progra mthroug hyou r civilia nmilitar y- - you r civilia nemploymen t history ? A Yes , every , well , wit hth e exceptio no f a shor t stin t a s a pilo t an d mechani c fo r a Par t 9 1 radi o traffi c patro l operator , fo r abou t si xyears , al l othe r time s I wa s unde r - - workin g fo r Par t 13 5 operators . Helicopters , Incorporated , andAirMed/Keyston e an dAi r Methods .

An da t al l thos e time s I wa s unde r a dru g abatemen t program . I don' t recal l whe n I hav e no t bee nunde r a dru g abatemen t progra m o f som e for mo r another. Q Hav e yo u hear danythin g about , o r eve r bee nnotified , i nanyway , tha t yo u

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### 22 3

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 l e 

### 1 9 2 0 2 1
9 9 

### neede dt o b e o na separat e dru g an dalcoho l

progra mothe r tha nyou r ful l tim e employer , durin g you r freelanc e maintenanc e experiences ? AI gaine dtha t a s unde r th e requiremen t o f th e operato r wh o wa s requestin g m yservices , o r th e employe r a t th e time , b e i t Ai r Methods , o r Helicopters , Incorporated .

Thei r dru g abatemen t manager , wh o manage dth e program , an ddictate dth e requirements , a s a mechanic , m ysol e responsibilit yi s makin g sur e tha t m y maintenanc e manuals , an ddat a tha t I us e t o perfor mtha t maintenanc ei s current , an d accurate , an dup t o date .

S o I hav e neve r ha da concern . I understan d- - I wa s asked , earl yon , whe nI wa s approache dt o d o maintenance , tha t I wa s require dt o b e o na dru g abatemen t progra mfo r a t leas t on eo f m yemployers . Q Okay . Hav e yo u eve r hear do f any othe r ASc

P mechani c needin g t o b e o na separat e program , whil e workin g o nanysmal l company' s

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### 22 4 aircraft ? A No . I kno wlot s o f ASL P

### mechanic s

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 wh o d o moonligh t maintenance , a s yo u ar e

definin g i t here , o r wor k fo r othe r operators , an dperfor mmaintenanc e o nothe r aircraft .

Mostl ypar t 9 1 aircraft . Thi s is , really , th e firs t tim e I hav e worke doutsid e a 13 5 operator , othe r tha non e tha t ha dI ' m alreadyunde r thei r certificate . Q Hav e yo u eve r bee nnotified , o r hear delsewhere , abou t anywebsit e tha t poste d change dregulation s affectin g thi s matter ? ANo . Q A s soo na s M& Rhear do f thi s ne w requirement , di dth e companythe nplac e you , immediately , o nthei r alread yexistin g program , i nadditio nt o you r full-tim e employer' s program ? AYes , sir . Q I nyou r 2 5 year s o f bein g a professiona l pilot , an da nA& P mechanic , hav e yo u eve r ha da positiv e testin g result ? A No .

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### 22 5

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 3 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

. 2 2 

### 0 I nyou r 2 5 year s o f eithe r bein g a

professiona l pilot , o r a nA& P mechanic , hav e yo u eve r refuse da rando mdru g test ? A No . Q I nyou r 2 5 year s o f bein g a professiona l pilot , anda nA& P mechanic , hav e yo u eve r ha da nincident , o r a naccident , wit h regar dt o you r capacit yt o pilo t o r b e a nA& P mechanic? A No . Q D o yo u believ e tha t th e - - tha t ther e wa s aninadequat e notificatio nproces s concernin g thes e change dregulations , tha t n o on ekne wabout , tha t th e FA Adidn' t kno w about , tha t Mr . Root s didn' t kno wabout , th e dru g abatemen t office r - -

MR . RALEY : Objection , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . DR . SELIG : Thos e ar e al l th e question s I have.

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msorry ? 

### DR. SELIG : Tha t i s al lth e

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### 22 6

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 question s I have . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Cros s -

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 examination ? MR . RALEY : Yes , You r Honor . CROSS-EXAMINATIO N B YMR . RALEY : Q Mr . Baker , o nJul y24th , 2008 , yo u performe dmaintenanc e wor k o naircraf t Novembe r 9 8 Charlie , Mike , correct ? AI - - a t th e tim e I didn' t perfor m an yactua l physica l maintenanc e o nit , I merel ywrot e th e - - Dr . Seli g ha da mechani c fo r th e airpor t authorit yperformin g maincenance , o r performin g th e check .

A t tha t tim e i wa s dow na t Allentow nAirport , fo r mycompany . Ai r Methods , doin g maintenanc e swipes , and maintenanc e wor k fo r ou r EC-135 .

I observe dthe mo nth e ramp doin g maintenance , o r doin g a trac k an dbalance , an d
a t tha t tim e I walke dove r t o sayhello , an d
se e wha t the ywer e doing .

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### 22 7

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Th e mechani c di dno t have , h e ha d

th e Chadwic k uni t hooke du p properly , bu t h e didn' t kno who wt o us e it . An dI' mfamilia r wic hth e unit , s o I looke da t th e readings , an dthe ndocumente dth e ratings .

Bu t I di dn o physica l maintenanc e o ntha t aircraf t othe r tha ndocumen t th e reading s fo r th e Chadwick , indicatin g tha t th e aircraf t wa s withi nnorma l saf e operatin g limit s fo r vibratio nanalysis . Q T o b e clear , exhibi t A-4 , tha t i s i nfron t o f yo u ther e - - on e second .

(Paus e . ) B YMR . RALEY : Q O nexhibi t A-4 , tha t i s you r signatur e unde r th e wor k performed ? AYes , i t is . Q An dtha t wor k performe dwa s maintenanc e o r preventiv e maintenanc e i n nature , correct ? AI gues s yo u coul dconside r i t that . I t wa s a vibratio nbalanc e check , i n

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 accordanc e wit hth e Chadwick .

Q Yo u performe dthi s wor k i nyou r capacit ya s a nindependen t contractor , correct ? AI gues s yo u coul dsa ythat . Q Wer e yo u pai ddirectl yfo r thi s work ? A Yes , I was . Q Di dyo u d o thi s wor k o nbehal f o f Ai r Methods ? A No . Q Di dyo u d o thi s wor k o nbehal f o f th e Nationa l Guard ? ANo . Q Wa s eithe r Ai r Method s o r th e Nationa l Guard , pai dfo r thi s work ? A No . Q O nJul y24th , 2008 , yo u didn' t hav e you r ow nDO T require ddru g an dalcoho l testin g program ? ANo . 0 O nJul y24th , 2008 , yo u wer e no t

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### 22 9

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 

### unde r Respondent' s dru g andalcoho l testin g

program , correct ? ANo . MR . RALEY : Tha t i s al l I have , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : An yredirect , Dr . Selig ? Tha t woul dbe , yo u ca nas k hi m question s base dupo nth e question s i ncross examinatio n.

REDIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YDR . SELIG : Q Whe nyo u performe dthi s wor k o n th e aircraft , yo u believe dtha t yo u wer e covere dunde r you r ow ndru g an dalcoho l progra munde r th e pre-200 4 Februar yprovision s
a t - -

question . MR . RALEY : Objection , leading .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Le t hi mfinis hth e

B YDR . SELIG : Q Th e pre- 2 00 4 regulations , whic h woul dhav eallowe dyo u t o perfor mthi s a s yo u

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### 23 0

2 3 4 5 6 7 6 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 

### 2 1 9 ? 

### did , correct ? MR . RALEY : Objection , leading . JUDG E GOODWIN : I t i s leading , I wil l allo wit . Overruled .

TH E WITNESS : M

yunderstandin g o f th e regulations , an dbein g unawar e o f anyo f th e change s i nthat , a s I woul dnormall yno t loo k fo r change s i nthat , I woul dassum e tha t iv'oul db e unde r th e purvie wo f th e dru g abatemen t manage r fo r th e companie s tha t I wor k for . M

yunderstandin g wa s tha t I neede d t o b e unde r a nFAA-approve ddru g abatemen t progra mfor , yo u know ? An dmyunderstandin g wa s i t didn' t matte r whethe r i t wa s fo r th e perso npayin g me fo r th e work , o r th e compan y tha t I worke dfo r full-time .

An dsinc e I wa s unde r th e assumptio ntha t th e dru g abatemen t program , o f

m yfull-tim e employe r wa s acceptable , t o allo w m e t o perfor m

th e work , thi s hadn' t crosse dm y min da t th e tim e w e di dthis .

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3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I woul dhav e t o sa ythat , yes , I

woul dbeliev e tha t I fel t tha t I wa s acceptabl e an dallowe dt o d o tha t work . Q S o yo u didn't , intentionally , tr y t o d o somethin g tha t yo u though t wa s no t allowed , o r i nviolatio no f anything ? A No , no . Q An dyo u ar e i ngoo dfait htha t th e airport , whic hwa s a servic e station , starte d th e performanc e o f thi s task , bu t the ywer e unabl e t o complet e i t bu t i t was , still , unde r servic e statio ncertificate , an dtha t i s ho w i t wa s initiate da t tha t point , i s tha t correct ? A Yes , sir . Q Okay . S o i ngoo dfait hyo u assisted , an dende du p havin g t o finis hi t up . Now , i s tha t correct ? A Yes . Q Okay . Now , yo u repeate dtha t sam e rotor , exactl yth e sam e job , a t a late r date , an dth e aircraf t hadn' t bee nflown , i s tha t

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correct ? MR . RALEY : Objection ,

4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 You r Honor . Tha t i s assumin g fact s no t i n

evidence , an doutsid e th e scope .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u enquire do f you r witnes s whethe r th e aircraf t ha dbee n flown . I wil l allo wit . Bu t I woul dpoin t out , Dr . Selig , tha t th e previou s witness ' testimon ysuggeste dtha t i t doesn' t matte r whethe r i t wa s flow no r not . Bu t I wil l allo w th e question .

TH E WITNESS : Havin g bee nflown ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Jus t wai t unti l h e
answer s th e question . Restat e you r question . Dr . Selig . B YDR . SELIG : Q Well , m yquestio nis , i s i t tru e tha t th e aircraf t wa s no t flown , o r use di n
an ypar t 13 5 operations , afte r yo u performe d tha t roto r balance ? AI can' t safel ysa yye s o r no , becaus e I wa s no t priv yt o th e aircraf t fligh t logs . Bu t base do nth e record s tha t I hav e

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 seen , i nevidenc e there , I woul dsa ytha t i t

wa s no t flow no nan y13 5 operations , afte r tha t weigh t an dbalanc e wa s performed . Q Bu t yo u basicall ysai d- - AO r o f th e trac k an dbalanc e vibratio nchec k wa s performed . Q Bu t yo u ca nsa ytha t i t wa s no t flow n13 5 knowin g tha t ther e wa s n o par t 13 5 pilot ? MR . RALEY : Objection , aske dan d answered . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sustained . Aske d

an danswere dDr . Selig .

DR . SELIG : I' msorry , excus e me ? JUDG E GOODWIN : I t ha s bee naske d

an danswered .

DR . SELIG : Okay . DR . SELIG : Tha t i s al l th e Question s I have .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An yothe r question s o f thi s witness ?

MR . RALEY : No , You r Honor .

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

. GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N. W WASHINGTON , D.C

. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgioss.cor n

### 23 4

1 2 3 4 5 5 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 I S 1 9 2 0 2 1
9 0 

### JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Baker , I wil l

allo wyo u t o ste p down . Again , I wil l instruc t yo u no t t o discus s you r testimon y wit hanybody , excep t wit hDr . Selig , whil e yo u remain .

yo u have ? Dr . Selig , wha t othe r evidenc e d o

DR . SELIG : I prett ymuc h submitted , I jus t hav e t o g o bac k ove r al l o f thes e document s tha t wer e neve r - - testify ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Ar e yo u goin g t o

DR . SELIG ; I thin k I hav e said . prett ymuch , wha t I nee dt o say .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , whydon' t w e d o this . I t i s 3:20 , sinc e w e see mt o b e a t a paus e i nth e evidence , let' s brea k now . W e wil l start , promptly, a t 9 o'clock .

An di t look s lik e w e probabl y shoul dge t finishe dbynoon . Unles s yo u hav e t o b e someplace , Mr . Raley ?

MR . RALEY : Always , You r Honor .

(202 ) 234-443 3 

### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE.

. N.W

. WASHINGTON , D.C

. 20005-370 1 www.nealfgross.co m

### 23 5

2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 No , tha t i s fine . JUDG E GOODWIN : Whydon' t w e d o that . I' mgoin g t o admonis hal l th e witnesse s no t t o discus s you r testimonywit hanybody . W e wil l reconven e a t 9 o'cloc k tomorro w morning , an dcommenc e a t tha t point .

An ds o a t tha t point , Dr . Selig , Ms . Frankel , yo u wil l b e her e o nth e stand . I will . Dr . Selig , I wil l allo wyo u cross examination , andI wil l allo wyou , Mr . Raley , redirect . 1 wil l the nallo wDr . Seli g t o reconside r whethe r o r no t h e want s t o testify , o r i f h e doesn't , a t tha t point , th e cas e shoul db e a t th e poin t tha t yo u ca nconside r whethe r yo u wan t t o d o a rebuttal .

Al l right , than k you . W e wil l se e yo u a t 9 o'cloc k tomorro wmorning .

{Whereupon , a t 3:2 1 p.m. , th e above-entitle dmatte r wa s concluded. )

(202 ) 234-443 3 

### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE.

. N.W

. WASHINGTON

. D. C 20005-370 1 www.neaIrgross.co mPag e 23 6

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Nea l R . Gros s & Co .

202-234-443 3 In e .Pag e 23 7

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Nea l R . Gros s & Co. , Inc .

202-234-443 3Pag e 23 8

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Nea l R . Gros s 5

c Co. , Inc . 202-234-443 3171:5,15,1 7 174: 2

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payin g 230:1 6 payrol l76: 1 1 pe n93: 6 penalizin g 57: 8 penaltie s 178:1 0 189:1 8 penalt y1: 8 32: 5 40:1,1853:8.1 5 213: 5 pendin g 164: 4 202:3. 0 Pennsylvani a1:2 1 47:7 ' peopl e24: 227: 5 127:2.9,1 2 percen t 75:1 2 144:1 7 percentag e153: 9 perfor m30: 9 30:I S 45:9.1 7 79:14,2 1 101:20109:1 3 116:2 2117:1 0 118:1 3 174: 3 190:1 6 191: 6 197:1 3 223:1 3 224: 5 226:1 0 229:2 2230:2 1 performanc e76:1 2 100:1 0215:4,8, 9 231:1 0 performe d28:2 2 29:1031:1035: 9 37:1 9 67:2 086:1 6 87:2 288: 3 91:2 1 103: 1 104: 0105: 3 105: 4 157:14.1 7 157:2 1 180:1 4 191:10.2 2206:1 5 206:1 0207:1,1 3 208: 6 226: 8 227:16,1 8 228: 2 2^9:1223^:1 8 233:3, 6 performin g 48: 1 68: 9 107: 9 109: 3 110: 4 191:1 3

Nea l R . Gros s & Co. , Inc .

202-234-443 3197:18226:13.1 4

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202-234-443 3Pag e 25 4

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CERT I FICAT E

Thi s i s t o certif ytha t th e foregoin g transcrip t

I nth e matte r of : M& RHelicopter s

Before : u S DO T

Date : 01-26-1 2

Place : Easton , PA

wa s dul yrecorde dandaccuratel ytranscribe dunde r m ydirection ; further , tha t sai dtranscrip t i s a tru e an daccurat e recor do f th e proceedings .

Cour t Reporte r



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