### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 1 GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

+ + + + + ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

+ + + + + FORMALDEHYDE STANDARDS FOR COMPOSITE WOOD PRODUCTS ACT PUBLIC MEETING

+ + + + + MONDAY APRIL 28, 2014

+ + + + +

The Formaldehyde Standards for Composite Wood Products Act Public Meeting met in the Room 1153, 1201 Constitution Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC, at 1:00 p.m., Cindy Wheeler, Chair, presiding.

PRESENT LYNN VENDINELLO, Chief, Fibers and Organics Branch, National Program Chemicals Division CINDY WHEELER, Formaldehyde Rulemaking Workgroup Chair LOUISE WISE, Deputy Assistant Administrator, Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 2 ALSO PRESENT LYNN BAKER, California Air Resources Board ROBERT CRINER, National Association of Home Builders KIP HOWLETT, Hardwood Plywood and Veneer Association TOM JULIA, Composite Panel Association BROCK LANDRY, Federal Wood Industries Council JACKSON MORRILL, American Chemistry Council TOM NELTNER, National Resources Defense Council BILL PERDUE, American Home Furnishings Alliance KELLY SHOTBOLT, Flakeboard CINDY SQUIRES, International Wood Products Association RICHARD TITUS, Kitchen Cabinet Manufacturers Association

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 3 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S Opening Remarks. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Louise Wise, Deputy Asst Administrator Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention

Review of Recommendations on the Treatment of Laminated Products. . . . . . . . 7 Cindy Wheeler, Formaldehyde Rulemaking Workgroup Chair Lead, Heavy Metals & Inorganics Branch, National Program Chemicals Division

Stakeholder Presentations. . . . . . . . . . .15

Rulemaking Next Steps. . . . . . . . . . . . 112 Lynn Vendinello, Chief Fibers and Organics Branch, National Program Chemicals Division

Adjournment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 4 1 

### P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 

### (1:00 p.m.) 3 

### MS. WISE: So welcome everybody, 4 

### and thanks for coming. And also for those of 5 

### you who are on the phone, appreciate you being 6 

### here. I'm Louise Wise. I'm the deputy 7 

### assistant administrator for the Office of 8 

### Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention, and 9 

### we're here obviously to talk about our 10 

### proposed rule on the formaldehyde emission 11 

### standards for composite wood products. 12 

### And as you know, EPA has already 13 

### proposed two rules in June of 2013 to assure 14 

### that the composite wood products produced 15 

### domestically and imported into the United 16 

### States meet formaldehyde emission standards 17 

### that were established by Congress way back in 18 

### 2010. 19 

### The emission standards contained 20 

### in the EPA's proposed rule are identical to 21 

### the emission standards currently in place 22 

### under the California Air Resource Board's,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 5 1 

### that's CARB's, airborne toxics control measure 2 

### as you probably already know. But other 3 

### provisions in EPA's proposed rule align to the 4 

### extent possible and practical with those 5 

### regulations, but as you also know EPA's 6 

### proposed rule covers laminated products, 7 

### certain laminated products, while California's 8 

### current regulations exempt them. 9 

### But as you'll hear shortly about, 10 

### California has proposed some changes to that 11 

### rule. We differed because of the statutory 12 

### requirements that we had which required us to 13 

### meet certain emission standards even for 14 

### laminated products. So the reason for 15 

### extending the comment period and inviting you 16 

### to talk to us has a lot to do with our 17 

### questions around those issues. 18 

### So we've reopened the public 19 

### comment period to provide you the opportunity 20 

### to comment on three things -- how the proposed 21 

### rule would address laminated products; comment 22 

### on CARB's potential modifications that would

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 6 1 affect laminated products; and the public 2 comments we've already received on laminated 3 products. 4 So since it's our goal to 5 harmonize with California's regulations, EPA 6 is especially interested in your comments on 7 CARB's potential modifications to its 8 regulations. 9 That proposal, CARB's proposal, 10 was referenced in our Federal Register notice 11 announcing this meeting and included in the 12 public document, but we'll have staff 13 immediately following me talk briefly about 14 the CARB proposal. 15 In addition to the comments 16 received in today's meeting, you can still 17 submit comments to the public document on or 18 before May 8th, and the EPA will consider the 19 comments made today at this public meeting as 20 well as those submitted to the docket in 21 developing our final regulation. 22 So once again I just want to

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 7 1 

### welcome you. We really appreciate you coming 2 

### here. This is an issue that we're really 3 

### concerned about and want to hear from you, so 4 

### thank you. 5 

### MS. WHEELER: I'll get what I'm 6 

### going to say out in front of me and put the 7 

### rest of this out of the way so I don't break 8 

### the microphone or something else horrible 9 

### happen, you know, I fall off the little 10 

### platform here and break something. 11 

### I'm Cindy Wheeler. I work in the 12 

### National Program Chemicals Division of the 13 

### Office of Pollution Prevention and Toxics, and 14 

### I'm one of the team of rule writers and other 15 

### professionals that we have working on this 16 

### issue. There's quite a large team. We have 17 

### economists. We have toxicologists. We have 18 

### a wide variety of people working on this. 19 

### So as Louise just said, laminated 20 

### products is quite possibly the biggest issue 21 

### that we're dealing with in this rulemaking, 22 

### and we understand that our proposal brought in

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 8 1 

### a lot of people that are not currently covered 2 

### under the California regulations. 3 

### So it's a new sector of the 4 

### industry that would be covered, and so we want 5 

### to make sure that we do it in an appropriate 6 

### way while still taking into account the 7 

### protection of human health and the 8 

### environment. 9 

### So that's why we're having a 10 

### reopening of the comment period on this. We 11 

### got a variety of comments on this issue during 12 

### our public comment period last year, and in 13 

### fact California's also looking at making some 14 

### changes to their treatment. 15 

### I'm sorry, I should have said go 16 

### to the next slide. 17 

### So again just to reiterate, we've 18 

### got a court reporter taking down the comments 19 

### we're getting today and we will also be 20 

### entertaining any public comments submitted to 21 

### our docket on or before May 8th, 2014. 22 

### Well, I'm just going to keep

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 9 1 

### talking. I'm not saying anything any of you 2 

### don't already know. So California's proposal, 3 

### California is actually here and they're going 4 

### to make a presentation at some point after I 5 

### finish speaking so I'm not going to go into a 6 

### lot of detail on their proposal, just that 7 

### they are considering establishing a 8 

### formaldehyde emission performance standard for 9 

### laminated products. 10 

### It would apply to unfinished 11 

### laminated products and would not affect any of 12 

### the other requirements already applicable to 13 

### fabricators under the California regulations. 14 

### Testing and certification would 15 

### not be required. It would be up to the 16 

### laminated products producer, the fabricator, 17 

### to determine how best to ensure that their 18 

### products meet the performance standard. And 19 

### they believe that making it applicable to 20 

### unfinished laminated products would make it 21 

### somewhat easier to perform testing in an 22 

### enforcement context.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 10 1 

### So like I said, California is 2 

### here. They're going to speak about this 3 

### shortly. We also got a variety of comments 4 

### and other suggestions from other interested 5 

### parties during our open comment period. 6 

### Many commenters thought that 7 

### laminated products should be exempt from the 8 

### definition of hardwood plywood, or if not they 9 

### should not be held to the same testing 10 

### requirements as hardwood plywood. 11 

### Another commenter suggested a 12 

### possibility of a self-certification option for 13 

### laminated products. We also had some comments 14 

### that we should consider excluding small 15 

### producers, custom shops and that sort of thing 16 

### from the testing and certification 17 

### requirements. One suggestion was companies 18 

### that produce less than 100,000 square feet of 19 

### product in a year. 20 

### We had some commenters suggest a 21 

### reduced testing frequency while still 22 

### maintaining third party oversight for

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 11 1 

### laminated product producers. And we also had 2 

### some comments saying maybe a reduced testing 3 

### and limited or no third party certification 4 

### option for laminated products. 5 

### We got a variety of suggestions on 6 

### what standard would be appropriate for 7 

### laminated products. One commenter suggested 8 

### that because hardwood plywood is often 9 

### indistinguishable from laminated products the 10 

### hardwood plywood emission standard is 11 

### appropriate. 12 

### One commenter thought that the 13 

### particle board emission standard would be the 14 

### most appropriate standard. And one commenter, 15 

### while not offering a specific emission 16 

### standard, noted that in many cases laminated 17 

### products are not offered for sale. 18 

### They are intermediates. They are 19 

### then incorporated into finished goods, and 20 

### that our proposal did not provide any 21 

### recognition or credit for the reduction in 22 

### emissions that often happens when a product is

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 12 1 

### laminated and finished. 2 

### So we are considering -- we 3 

### haven't made up our minds on this, that's why 4 

### we've reopened the comment period. So we're 5 

### considering a combination or any and all of 6 

### these such as California's latest proposal, a 7 

### reduced testing program, a self-certification 8 

### program, an exemption, or an exemption for low 9 

### volume producers. So we are, as I say, 10 

### considering any and all of those ideas. 11 

### So we would be particularly 12 

### interested in any comments you might have to 13 

### offer today or in writing to our docket on 14 

### what an appropriate production volume 15 

### threshold for testing and certification might 16 

### be. 17 

### Whether or not third party 18 

### certification is important or should be 19 

### required, what emission standard laminated 20 

### products ought to be held to, whether they can 21 

### and/or should be grouped for testing purposes, 22 

### and whether there are any associated

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 13 1 

### definitional changes that might be needed 2 

### including potential changes to the definition 3 

### of laminated product such as expanding the 4 

### eligible platforms to cover the cores 5 

### identified in the definition for hardwood 6 

### plywood. 7 

### So we are interested in any and 8 

### all comments along those lines. Any other 9 

### thoughts you may have on laminated products we 10 

### would certainly appreciate it. 11 

### And I really appreciate again all 12 

### of you being here. As Louise said, it's very 13 

### important that we hear from as many people as 14 

### we can on this particular subject. So thank 15 

### you again. And I will turn it over to Robert, 16 

### also on the team, for just some logistics and 17 

### to go over the agenda. Thank you. 18 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Hello everyone. 19 

### As Cindy mentioned, I'm also on the team 20 

### working on this rulemaking. And I just wanted 21 

### to go over some of the logistics from this 22 

### point forward with the meeting. We're going

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 14 1 

### to have the stakeholder presentations. 2 

### Just to let you know where the 3 

### restrooms are, because it's somewhat 4 

### complicated on the first floor, if you go out 5 

### to the left and then to the right there's a 6 

### women's restroom. If you go out to the right 7 

### and then all the way to the left there's a 8 

### men's restroom. 9 

### For the presentations we ask that 10 

### you keep it to ten minutes so everyone has 11 

### enough time to speak. We'll remind you. When 12 

### you're getting close to the end of your 13 

### presentation we'll hold up a little one minute 14 

### left sign. 15 

### We plan to have some time after 16 

### everyone has spoke to have a Q&A session for 17 

### questions for either the presenters or for 18 

### EPA. After that Lynn Vendinello will give 19 

### some closing remarks and some next steps. 20 

### I wanted to note that because we 21 

### have an open comment period we're going to be 22 

### limited in what we can talk about. We can

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 15 1 

### answer clarifying questions regarding the 2 

### rulemaking, but we're not going to be able to 3 

### discuss options that we're preferring at this 4 

### point based on information that we have to 5 

### date. 6 

### So our first speaker is Lynn Baker 7 

### of CARB. 8 

### MR. BAKER: Well, it's a great 9 

### opportunity to be here and speak with you on 10 

### your coast. We've seen all of you so many 11 

### times in our offices in Sacramento, so we 12 

### appreciate the opportunity to participate in 13 

### this meeting and see familiar faces closer to 14 

### your home front instead of out in the 15 

### provinces of California. 16 

### So I wanted to make a few remarks 17 

### just for the purposes of the record in terms 18 

### of the background of what got us to here and 19 

### then comment on our proposal, and then some 20 

### comments that we have on some of the other 21 

### proposals that have been put forth with regard 22 

### to laminated products.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 16 1 

### So when Sarah's ready I'm ready 2 

### for the second slide. There we go. Thanks. 3 

### And actually you can just go ahead to the next 4 

### slide, Sarah. And you can go on. Next one. 5 

### Okay. Well, no, not that far. There. There 6 

### we go, thank you. 7 

### So just for the purposes of 8 

### catching everyone up to how we got here, we 9 

### developed an airborne toxic control measure in 10 

### 2007 that was adopted in 2008 into 11 

### California's code of regulations. 12 

### And actually I beg to differ with 13 

### Ms. Wise. Actually we do not exempt laminated 14 

### products. We do regulate laminated products. 15 

### They're required to have compliant cores or 16 

### compliant platforms. So any fabricator that's 17 

### making laminated products, they're required to 18 

### use a compliant core regardless of whether 19 

### it's a wood veneer or synthetic laminate. 20 

### Now, next slide. Okay. So our 21 

### reasons for proposing amendments to our 22 

### current approach to laminated products, we had

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 17 1 

### committed when we developed our regulation to 2 

### look at laminated products. It was something 3 

### that we came up with actually after we went to 4 

### our board. 5 

### It was a way of addressing the 6 

### product. We had talked with a lot of industry 7 

### folks, and we came up with this option for 8 

### dealing with laminated products really without 9 

### any testing data. 10 

### So over the course of since 2008 11 

### we have conducted a number of studies of 12 

### laminated products. We've worked as many of 13 

### you know with American Home Furnishings 14 

### Alliance. Several furniture manufacturers 15 

### provided laminated products to us and we 16 

### tested a lot of these products. 17 

### And the data told us that there 18 

### were opportunities to have additional 19 

### formaldehyde reductions if we approached this 20 

### in a different way. Because we found some of 21 

### these wood veneered laminated products to be 22 

### quite high emitting, not all but some.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 18 1 

### So our amendment, or our proposed 2 

### amendment is part of a broader approach to 3 

### amending our regulation. We wanted to clean 4 

### up some inconsistencies, tighten up a few 5 

### requirements, and the laminated products is 6 

### one of those. 7 

### We proposed something last year, 8 

### we workshopped it and then we heard from many 9 

### of you. And so we've adjusted our proposal 10 

### and that was released at a workshop we had 11 

### back last month. So that's what I'm going to 12 

### talk about today. So next slide. 13 

### So as Cindy mentioned, I'll just 14 

### kind of reiterate. Our proposed amendment is 15 

### to establish a new formaldehyde emissions 16 

### standard for wood veneered laminated products. 17 

### Now the standard is 0.13 ppm which would be 18 

### for unfinished, so no coating, no varnish. 19 

### Unfinished laminated products that consist of 20 

### a wood veneer affixed to a compliant platform. 21 

### All the other requirements for 22 

### wood veneered laminated products would be the

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 19 1 

### same as they currently are, same labeling 2 

### requirements, same requirement to use a 3 

### compliant platform. 4 

### Now we are not proposing any 5 

### routine quality control testing or third party 6 

### certification requirements. The fabricators 7 

### would determine the best way to ensure 8 

### compliance. This is patterned after our very 9 

### successful consumer products program. 10 

### In California we have a regulation 11 

### that's been in effect for many years to reduce 12 

### VOC or volatile organic compound emissions 13 

### from consumer products to reduce precursors to 14 

### photochemical smog. 15 

### The producers of all these 16 

### consumer products whether they be aerosol 17 

### hairsprays, deodorants, consumer pesticides, 18 

### do not have to do any testing, but there is a 19 

### standard VOC limit that those consumer 20 

### products have to meet. 21 

### And if they don't meet it, if we 22 

### test them and we find that they're exceeding

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 20 1 

### that limit they will get a violation. But 2 

### they are not required to test their products. 3 

### And so we patterned our proposed amendment 4 

### after that. 5 

### Again a fabricator then would have 6 

### to determine their best way to ensure that 7 

### they are compliant. So if that's using a very 8 

### low emitting platform and they know they're 9 

### using a low emitting glue to adhere the wood 10 

### veneer, they can be confident that they're 11 

### going to be below the 0.13, they don't need to 12 

### do any testing. 13 

### If they're wanting to cut it a 14 

### little closer, they may want to do some 15 

### testing but no testing is required. And ARB's 16 

### compliance would be the check on that. Our 17 

### field staff that go out, pick up samples, 18 

### bring them back to our lab would help to 19 

### ensure compliance. Next slide. 20 

### The requirements for synthetic 21 

### laminated products do not change. They still 22 

### would need to have compliant platforms, still

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 21 1 

### need labeling. We've also, just to try to 2 

### alleviate any confusion we've added 3 

### definitions of coatings and finishes, coatings 4 

### and synthetic material to our amendments to 5 

### help everybody understand what those are. So 6 

### in terms of -- sorry. Next slide, please. 7 

### So the basis for our proposed 8 

### amendment is the highest Phase 2 emissions 9 

### standard that we have which is for thin MDF. 10 

### That standard, the Phase 2 standard is 0.13 11 

### parts per million, so that's the basis for 12 

### this laminated products standard. 13 

### So that we're trying to ensure 14 

### that no wood veneered laminated product would 15 

### emit more than that platform material, which 16 

### in the worst case would be the thin MDF. 17 

### This approach treats laminated 18 

### products differently than hardwood plywood. 19 

### The big difference of course being that 20 

### there's no third party certification. 21 

### If there was a way to require 22 

### third party certification universally that

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 22 1 

### might be something that we could consider. 2 

### But we have thought about this, talked to 3 

### industry folks, and we just do not believe 4 

### that there is sufficient third party certifier 5 

### or laboratory capacity for the tens of 6 

### thousands of fabricators worldwide that would 7 

### be affected by this. So that's why we're not 8 

### requiring or proposing to require third party 9 

### certification. Next slide please. 10 

### Benefits. The benefits of the 11 

### proposed amendment are that it establishes a 12 

### ceiling and achieves additional emission 13 

### reductions beyond our current regulatory 14 

### approach, where there's no limit to what some 15 

### of these wood veneered laminated products can 16 

### emit. 17 

### It's performance based. We are 18 

### not dictating what resins must be used to 19 

### affix the wood veneer. Someone can still use 20 

### a urea-formaldehyde resin if they can tweak it 21 

### so that they don't exceed the 0.13 level. And 22 

### the proposed amendment minimizes economic

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 23 1 

### burdens on small businesses. 2 

### Applicability. Who's subject to 3 

### this standard? So any fabricator of a 4 

### component part, whether that may be a door 5 

### face or a cabinet door or a whole finished 6 

### good, would have to comply with this if 7 

### they're making a laminated product. 8 

### If we find in commerce a laminated 9 

### product that's been made by a fabricator and 10 

### it's being sold in bundles at a distributor or 11 

### retailer, we would view that as a piece of 12 

### hardwood plywood and we would say no, this is 13 

### not appropriate, this has to be third party 14 

### certified. 15 

### So this has to be made by a 16 

### fabricator that's making a finished good. If 17 

### it's mass panels being sold we would say, no, 18 

### that's got to be third party certified. Next 19 

### slide. 20 

### This is the brunt of what I wanted 21 

### to say, and this is the limitations of some of 22 

### the other approaches that have been shared.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 24 1 

### Again third party certification of all 2 

### fabricators has been proposed. We don't think 3 

### it's feasible. We just don't believe there 4 

### are enough global laboratories or testing 5 

### facilities to conduct all of this testing if 6 

### third party certification were to be required. 7 

### In addition, third party 8 

### certification would be very costly for small 9 

### businesses. Some have put out the idea, well, 10 

### maybe you have a minimum cutoff. And if 11 

### producers produce below 100,000 square feet 12 

### per year or per month that they wouldn't have 13 

### to comply, but only people above that would 14 

### have to comply. 15 

### That's very difficult to enforce 16 

### especially for international products. We 17 

### encounter a product in the market, we don't 18 

### know. Our enforcement staff don't know if 19 

### that company had produced more or less than 20 

### 100,000 square feet. So we don't see that as 21 

### workable. 22 

### Requiring limited amounts of

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 25 1 testing such as one test per year, we think, 2 has very little value. In fact, we think it 3 could be misleading. On the one hand a 4 regulatory agency, I think, could look at 5 this, whether it's us or U.S. EPA, and think, 6 well, they've conducted one test. 7 They've shown that they can 8 achieve the 0.13 level, but that doesn't say 9 anything about what they do the rest of the 10 year. They could change their resin 11 formulation the rest of the year. 12 We think the onus is on the 13 fabricator to make sure they are consistently 14 achieving this level, and achieving it once 15 for a test we think has very little value. 16 It's also misleading for the 17 company. The company might be misled to 18 think, well, I passed the 0.13, I'm good for 19 the rest of the year, and slow up on making 20 sure that they're really attaining it. 21 If we were to enforce something 22 and they showed us a piece of paper that had

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 26 1 

### a test result of less than 0.13 thinking that 2 

### oh, we're good for the whole year, no. It 3 

### would still be a violation if it's above 0.13. 4 

### So we think a one test would be misleading. 5 

### Specifying resins, I already 6 

### mentioned, we think is not performance based. 7 

### We think it's better to allow the flexibility. 8 

### And finally, status quo, doing nothing doesn't 9 

### achieve any additional emission reduction 10 

### benefits. 11 

### So in closing, final slide. We 12 

### would suggest to EPA that they adopt our 13 

### suggested requirements for these wood veneered 14 

### laminated products. We would suggest to EPA 15 

### that they adopt the requirements for laminated 16 

### products that we've proposed, but we know a 17 

### lot of you have other perspectives and we 18 

### along with EPA will be interested to hear your 19 

### thoughts. So thank you for your attention. 20 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Thanks Lynn. Our 21 

### next speaker is Kip, and Kip do you want to 22 

### just sit right there or do you want to turn

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 27 1 

### around or -- okay. 2 

### MR. HOWLETT: I'm Kip Howlett, 3 

### president of the Hardwood Plywood and Veneer 4 

### Association, and let the record show that I'll 5 

### go to any extreme to gain sympathy and 6 

### attention. Next slide. There you go, the 7 

### next one. The next one. Okay. 8 

### Hardwood plywood is veneer on a 9 

### platform and that platform can be veneer core, 10 

### particle board, MDF. Over 90 percent of 11 

### whether a paneling or fabricator manufacturer 12 

### are basically constructing hardwood plywood on 13 

### one of those three cores. 14 

### They can be lumber core, 15 

### combination cores, or other special cores, but 16 

### they're a small minority of overall 17 

### production. ANSI/HPVA HP-1 has defined 18 

### hardwood plywood as a national consensus 19 

### standard since 1932. 20 

### TSCA establishes one emission 21 

### standard for hardwood plywood, 0.05 part per 22 

### million. TSCA also established a ruling

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 28 1 

### mechanism for a different compliance framework 2 

### for fabricators who manufacture hardwood 3 

### plywood. Next slide. 4 

### We support a compliance framework 5 

### for fabricators that is cost effective, 6 

### efficient, admittedly burdensome, but ensures 7 

### evidence of emission performance test data in 8 

### a compliance statement which can be enforced 9 

### under TSCA. 10 

### The identity of a manufacturer 11 

### must be known for enforceability. Because 12 

### CARB's rule is based on Clean Air Act 13 

### authority, the EPA regulation has to be 14 

### consistent with TSCA's legal framework. The 15 

### product itself is paramount and its possible 16 

### emissions to the outdoor ambient air. Next 17 

### slide. 18 

### Despite those distortions of 19 

### compliance costs, we suggested a minimum 20 

### testing requirement using tests to verify 21 

### emission performance, which is consistent with 22 

### the proposed rule and statutory framework.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 29 1 

### And a three-year phase-in period addresses the 2 

### capacity issue. 3 

### A signed compliance statement 4 

### provides an enforceable, legally binding 5 

### commitment for a fabricator manufacturer of 6 

### hardwood plywood to maintain compliance. Next 7 

### slide. 8 

### The statute has only one emission 9 

### level for hardwood plywood. To allow a 10 

### different emission level opens a host of 11 

### equity and, more importantly, enforcement 12 

### issues. 13 

### A two-level standard for the same 14 

### product is not consistent with TSCA. To allow 15 

### a different emission standard means a consumer 16 

### can be exposed to the lowest emission level 17 

### from the product, 0.05 part per million, and 18 

### the highest emission level, 0.13 part per 19 

### million, but both of those would be identified 20 

### under the CARB proposal as, if EPA were to 21 

### adopt it, EPA/TSCA compliant. That outcome is 22 

### not TSCA consistent and consumers should

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 30 1 

### beware. 2 

### Also, with a 0.13 part per million 3 

### emission standard for hardwood plywood it 4 

### would be virtually impossible to enforce the 5 

### use of compliant cores of veneer core, 0.05 6 

### part per million, particle board or MDF, 0.08 7 

### part per million, because a fabricated 8 

### product, furniture or a kitchen cabinet, would 9 

### have a 0.13 part per million limit and simply 10 

### claim that all of the company's compliance 11 

### were internally manufactured. 12 

### Now on what basis would an 13 

### enforcement agency have reasonable cause to 14 

### pursue a fabricator to ensure that purchased 15 

### platforms were TSCA compliant when that 16 

### standard would be 0.13 part per million? 17 

### This approach eviscerates the 18 

### whole basis of fabricators using compliant 19 

### cores. Congress did not intend the regulation 20 

### of fabricators that had no specific testing or 21 

### proof of performance requirements. 22 

### Different emission levels at the

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 31 1 

### highest emission rate indicate enforcement 2 

### action could be brought. This is exactly the 3 

### CARB proposal and that approach is legally 4 

### inconsistent with TSCA. It's an enforcement 5 

### charade and consumers are put at higher risk 6 

### with no means to differentiate exposure 7 

### emission rates. Thank you. 8 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Okay, the next 9 

### speaker is Bill Purdue, with the American Home 10 

### Furnishings Alliance. 11 

### MR. PERDUE: Good afternoon. I'm 12 

### Bill Perdue, vice president of regulatory 13 

### affairs for the American Home Furnishings 14 

### Alliance. The AHFA is the world's largest and 15 

### most influential trade association serving the 16 

### home furnishings industry. 17 

### AHFA's more than 400 member 18 

### companies operate numerous domestic wood 19 

### furniture manufacturing facilities, and 20 

### comprise an extensive global supply chain that 21 

### provides a wide variety of home furnishings to 22 

### the American consumer.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 32 1 

### Our member companies are part of 2 

### an industry sector that provides approximately 3 

### 100,000 manufacturing jobs throughout the U.S. 4 

### and represents a $35 billion segment of the 5 

### nation's economy. 6 

### If the proposed rule is finalized 7 

### without changes, we estimate over a million 8 

### manufacturing jobs in the home furnishings and 9 

### related industries will be impacted. 10 

### The AHFA was pleased to learn that 11 

### EPA is considering a modification to the 12 

### proposed treatment of laminated products and 13 

### welcomes the opportunity to provide comment on 14 

### the issue before the agency during today's 15 

### public meeting. 16 

### As proposed, this rule 17 

### fundamentally changes the established 18 

### formaldehyde emissions certification model 19 

### created in California and now practiced by the 20 

### entire home furnishings industry. 21 

### Moreover, the end result of the 22 

### EPA's proposal was never envisioned or

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 33 1 

### intended by the congressional sponsors of the 2 

### legislation. The extension of certification 3 

### beyond a raw panel and encompassing an 4 

### additional recertification requirement on 5 

### fabricators of laminated products is the 6 

### single most costly and burdensome aspect of 7 

### the proposed rule. 8 

### This also represents the single 9 

### most significant departure from the approach 10 

### taken by the CARB ATCM. Congress defined the 11 

### term "laminated products" by statute, but 12 

### expressly provided EPA authority to amend this 13 

### definition and exempt laminated products from 14 

### the definition of hardwood plywood. 15 

### We believe that there is 16 

### sufficient industry and technical data to 17 

### warrant such an exemption. As drafted, this 18 

### rule would impose substantial, unwarranted new 19 

### cost on the supply chain with little or no 20 

### corresponding benefit. 21 

### Fabricators of laminated products 22 

### will face dramatically increased costs

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 34 1 

### associated with certification testing, 2 

### effectively turning them into panel producers. 3 

### This additional point of certification 4 

### requires fabricators to recertify intermediate 5 

### laminated products already produced using CARB 6 

### Phase 2 compliant cores as if those 7 

### fabricators were the original manufacturer of 8 

### the composite wood panels. 9 

### Further, this recertification 10 

### occurs before the component parts are 11 

### finished, an evaluated process that further 12 

### improves the emission characteristics of an 13 

### already certified core. This finishing 14 

### process has proven to vastly reduce 15 

### formaldehyde emissions. 16 

### AHFA submitted to the docket three 17 

### definitive studies that clearly demonstrate 18 

### that the value added process of finishing 19 

### further reduces the emission characteristics 20 

### of an already certified composite wood product 21 

### by at a minimum 80 percent. 22 

### In fact, the AHFA deconstructed

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 35 1 

### study demonstrated a significant mean shift in 2 

### certified composite wood panels that are 3 

### finished in comparison to those same panels in 4 

### their raw, unfinished state. 5 

### This new certification requirement 6 

### for intermediate laminated products notably 7 

### alters the compliance obligation for 8 

### fabricators, globally, forcing them into 9 

### unrealistic component level certification 10 

### scheme that will require costly new equipment, 11 

### testing, and personnel. 12 

### The impact of this component level 13 

### certification will dramatically affect 14 

### manufacturing and provide no environmental 15 

### health benefit. This definitional change 16 

### ignores the evidence that costs incurred by 17 

### the furniture industry to prove and defend 18 

### compliance does not represent an increased 19 

### reduction in emission nor an increased health 20 

### benefit to the consumer. 21 

### The furniture industry will 22 

### shoulder the burden of an estimated $210

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 36 1 

### million in new compliance cost. The rule as 2 

### drafted disregards the legislative mandate to 3 

### evaluate laminated products by ignoring 4 

### available and published data demonstrating 5 

### that finished products dramatically reduce the 6 

### emission profile of laminated products used as 7 

### component parts of finished goods. 8 

### As proposed, the rule offers no 9 

### improvement in emission performance for 10 

### finished goods, but requires fabricators to 11 

### absorb significant testing and certification 12 

### costs for a product that by itself is not 13 

### offered for sale. Once finished and assembled 14 

### into a final product there is no benefit to be 15 

### gained with further testing or regulation. 16 

### As a member of the Federal Wood 17 

### Industry Coalition, or FWIC, AHFA is on record 18 

### in support of the latest CARB proposal as an 19 

### appropriate alternative to the approach 20 

### currently proposed by EPA, and we reiterate 21 

### that support today. 22 

### However, this approach fails to

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 37 1 

### completely recognize that the regulation of an 2 

### intermediate product is incongruent and not 3 

### representative of the finished product. We 4 

### respectfully request that EPA exercise its 5 

### authority and exclude laminated products from 6 

### the definition of hardwood plywood. 7 

### The application of a wood-faced 8 

### veneer over a certified and compliant 9 

### composite wood product platform or core should 10 

### not be subject to additional testing. 11 

### This is a reasonable approach to 12 

### regulating the industry that relies on 13 

### engineered wood products and satisfies the 14 

### intent of Congress while maintaining the 15 

### integrity of the rule. 16 

### We thank you for the opportunity 17 

### to participate in this public meeting and we 18 

### look forward to continued participation in the 19 

### process. Thank you. 20 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Thanks, Bill. Our 21 

### next speaker is Tom Julia, the Composite Panel 22 

### Association.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 38 1 

### MR. JULIA: Thank you. My name is 2 

### Tom Julia, president of the Composite Panel 3 

### Association, CPA, the trade association that 4 

### represents about 95 percent of the production 5 

### of particle board, MDF, and hardboard in North 6 

### America. 7 

### As such, we represent two of the 8 

### three major regulated products in this 9 

### rulemaking. We also represent most of the 10 

### laminators and surface coating manufacturers 11 

### that put things on our products. Most 12 

### adhesive suppliers, a good number of other 13 

### suppliers, as well as major customers. So we 14 

### have a lot at stake in this rulemaking and we 15 

### have a lot of experience in this rulemaking. 16 

### We also operate, separately funded 17 

### and managed, the International Testing and 18 

### Certification Center and the Grademark 19 

### Certification Programs, which are the largest 20 

### and most stringent such programs administered 21 

### in North America for industry products. 22 

### We've been at this for decades,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 39 1 

### and indeed much of the CARB model for quality 2 

### assurance and certification is based on the 3 

### CPA approach. CPA's been deeply involved in 4 

### the CARB rulemaking and the EPA rulemaking 5 

### from the inception. 6 

### While such matters are by nature 7 

### adversarial, and we appreciate that, I think 8 

### our efforts, I hope our efforts have been 9 

### characterized by an effort to be collaborative 10 

### and cooperative and constructive at all times. 11 

### And so it's why I'm particularly 12 

### pleased to be here with all of you and with 13 

### the staff of EPA and CARB to once again 14 

### discuss these rulemakings and in particular 15 

### laminated products issue. 16 

### I'm also pleased because most of 17 

### the industry is of a like mind not only on a 18 

### laminated products issue but on most of the 19 

### issues that remain in this rulemaking, both 20 

### with ARB and CARB. 21 

### And that's no simple task. It 22 

### didn't come accidentally, it came by design.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 40 1 

### It came by design because from its inception 2 

### industry formulated a group first called the 3 

### California Wood Industries Coalition, and 4 

### later when the EPA rulemaking was initiated, 5 

### the Federal Wood Industries Coalition, where 6 

### some 15 or more trade associations, in fact, 7 

### almost all the major trade groups with an 8 

### interest in this regulation come together to 9 

### address the issues of common concern and 10 

### hopefully bring forward a credible voice to 11 

### the EPA and to ARB. 12 

### I also want to note, and 13 

### particularly with a colleague here in the room 14 

### who will speak later, Tom Neltner, that I 15 

### still remember just a handful of years ago 16 

### when Tom and I sat down and actually 17 

### contemplated the possibility of getting a bill 18 

### through Congress whereby we could establish a 19 

### national standard for formaldehyde emissions. 20 

### A lot of people thought that was 21 

### far-fetched at the time, but a lot of people 22 

### couldn't understand how a coalition like that

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 41 1 

### could be put together to get a bill through 2 

### Congress. But thanks to Tom, your hard work, 3 

### the hard work of your allies and the hard work 4 

### for which I'm also appreciative of, of many, 5 

### many colleagues in this room including the 6 

### HPVA and others, we did get that national 7 

### standard through Congress and it is the reason 8 

### we're all here today. 9 

### I think that's important, because 10 

### when we think about why we're here narrowly 11 

### today on laminated products, never, ever, was 12 

### it contemplated that this was a standard on 13 

### finished products, only raw products. 14 

### Indeed, any discussion of 15 

### laminated products and how to best promote 16 

### their compliance with the letter and spirit of 17 

### the CARB and EPA regulations should consider 18 

### why we worked on these regulations for so many 19 

### years. 20 

### Might there be shared objectives 21 

### that even those who see laminated products 22 

### issues differently can agree upon? I think

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 42 1 

### so. And it is these overarching objectives 2 

### that should matter most to the EPA as it 3 

### decides the issues around laminated products 4 

### and completes its rulemaking. And indeed as 5 

### CARB completes its rulemaking amendments as 6 

### well. 7 

### Simply put, a national standard is 8 

### good for public health, it's good for the 9 

### American consumer, it's good for responsible 10 

### manufacturers who want to expand the markets 11 

### for composite panel products and for whom 12 

### consumer confidence in these products matters. 13 

### It's also a way to mitigate the 14 

### production and sale in the United States of 15 

### products that operate outside the bounds of 16 

### accepted industry practice and regulatory 17 

### requirements. It says to the bad actors, you 18 

### are not welcome here, and I think that's a 19 

### very good thing. 20 

### CARB is implementing a rule that 21 

### is working. Yes, it needs refinements, and 22 

### yes, CARB has taken the initiative to propose

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 43 1 

### amendments. But let's remember, the CARB rule 2 

### is the toughest production standard of its 3 

### kind in the world for composite panel 4 

### products, and in just a few years it has 5 

### become the de facto global standard, even 6 

### though it only applies in California. 7 

### Composite panel emission levels 8 

### are down. Innovative low emitting adhesive 9 

### systems abound. CARB approved third party 10 

### testing and certification is now available 11 

### almost everywhere in the world, and 12 

### responsible companies all over the world have 13 

### made major investments in technology and 14 

### choices in sourcing to abide by the CARB rule 15 

### and showcase the compliance of their products. 16 

### What EPA can do now is make things 17 

### even more uniform, better, and enforceable, 18 

### especially if the directives of Congress are 19 

### followed and the final EPA and CARB rules read 20 

### exactly the same, are implemented on exactly 21 

### the same date, and are enforced fairly and 22 

### rigorously.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 44 1 

### What EPA should not do today is 2 

### seek a major expansion of the CARB rule that 3 

### will not result in appreciably more compliant 4 

### products in the marketplace, and that instead 5 

### will cause massive economic hardship to 6 

### industries already doing the right thing. 7 

### EPA should not take what is a 8 

### standard for raw product emissions and morph 9 

### it into one that also addresses coatings and 10 

### finished products. 11 

### That is not the standard that 12 

### Congress contemplated. That is not the 13 

### standard that a coalition proposed. And that 14 

### is not the standard that CARB is implementing 15 

### today. 16 

### To do anything more than what CARB 17 

### has proposed in its amendments to the 18 

### laminated products provisions of this rule 19 

### will result in a Don Quixote-like illusory 20 

### gain. 21 

### What will not be illusory however 22 

### is the loss of thousands more American

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 45 1 

### manufacturing jobs in the furniture and other 2 

### industries and a further shift to offshore 3 

### sourcing. 4 

### What is not illusory is that 5 

### neither CARB nor EPA nor any other agency is 6 

### prepared to monitor and manage the compliance 7 

### of tens of thousands of companies around the 8 

### world that make products encompassed in the 9 

### laminated products provision. Most of these 10 

### are very small businesses even here in the 11 

### United States. 12 

### And what is not illusory is that 13 

### the third party testing and certification 14 

### system in existence today around the world 15 

### would have to expand exponentially to manage 16 

### the products that would be swallowed up in 17 

### this regulatory approach proposed by EPA a 18 

### year ago, or even one that goes substantially 19 

### beyond what CARB has proposed now. 20 

### In "A Tale of Two Cities" Dickens 21 

### wrote, "It was the best of times. It was the 22 

### worst of times. It was the age of wisdom. It

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 46 1 

### was the age of foolishness." Then you've 2 

### heard me say this before. 3 

### Today, EPA has the opportunity to 4 

### complete a rule that will advance the public 5 

### interest and do something highly constructive 6 

### for American consumers, and one that industry, 7 

### the environmental community, organized labor, 8 

### the health care community and others can all 9 

### get behind. 10 

### You can act with wisdom to 11 

### promulgate well-considered rules to implement 12 

### the national standard on formaldehyde 13 

### emissions, rules that incorporate what CPA and 14 

### FWIC and others have recommended to you on a 15 

### variety of topics and which we now recommend 16 

### to you on laminated products. 17 

### By doing so you will make this a 18 

### better, fairer, more pragmatic and more 19 

### enforceable rule. I urge you to focus on 20 

### enforcing what is already in this rule with 21 

### the changes recommended by CWIC, CPA, FWIC and 22 

### CARB.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 47 1 

### You do not need to expand the 2 

### regulation of laminated products to have a 3 

### rule that already meets your threshold 4 

### objectives. You're already there. Thank you. 5 

### MR. COURTNAGE: The next speaker 6 

### is Kelly Shotbolt of Flakeboard. 7 

### MR. SHOTBOLT: Good afternoon. My 8 

### name is Kelly Shotbolt. I'm the president of 9 

### Flakeboard. We're the oldest surviving 10 

### composite panel manufacturer in North America, 11 

### having started in 1960, and today we're the 12 

### largest producer of these products in North 13 

### America. 14 

### We have eight such facilities, six 15 

### of which are here in the United States. We're 16 

### owned by a Chilean company called Arauco, and 17 

### Arauco has a similar sized footprint in South 18 

### America producing these products in Chile, 19 

### Brazil, and in Argentina. 20 

### And together with our South 21 

### American group we are now the second largest 22 

### producer of composite panels worldwide. So we

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 48 1 

### have also a stake in what's going on here 2 

### because it certainly, it doesn't just affect 3 

### us in the West, but in our global activities. 4 

### In these global activities we 5 

### produce fin-MDF, HDF, MDF, particle board, 6 

### softwood plywood. We finish those panels with 7 

### paint and print. We laminate with papers and 8 

### foils and melamine and other materials. 9 

### We sell to retailers, 10 

### distributors, cabinet shops, furniture 11 

### manufacturers, store fixture manufacturers. 12 

### We sell to the molding companies, and of 13 

### course to the laminators of all kinds 14 

### including those that affix veneer. 15 

### This year I have the pleasure of 16 

### serving as the CPA chairman and I've been part 17 

### of that CPA leadership now for over 17 years. 18 

### So together with Tom Julia, who you just heard 19 

### from, I also represent the broad industry, 95 20 

### percent of the producers, as Tom already 21 

### commented on. 22 

### I'd like to first just make some

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 49 1 

### comments on the state of the industry. And I 2 

### realize that EPA's primary consideration is 3 

### not economic, but I think some context in this 4 

### regard is helpful. 5 

### When I first started in this 6 

### business some 35 years ago, most of the 7 

### furniture that was consumed here was made in 8 

### North America. Actually, most of it was made 9 

### in the U.S. in the furniture belt of Virginia 10 

### and North and South Carolina. 11 

### About year 2000, 50 percent of the 12 

### furniture that's consumed here was being 13 

### produced offshore. Today, 72 percent of all 14 

### the wood furniture that's consumed in this 15 

### country is produced offshore. 16 

### Now as furniture manufacturing 17 

### started to shift, some shifted their model. 18 

### We have people in the audience here that have 19 

### a very, you know, a very strong model of 20 

### manufacturing and importing, but the vast 21 

### majority of the furniture industry just shut 22 

### down. And they closed up their doors and the

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 50 1 

### statistics will bear that out. 2 

### So in our industry, and I'll take 3 

### one of our products, particle board, our 4 

### shipments today are about 50 percent of what 5 

### they were in their heyday. And so in sympathy 6 

### to our customers who have closed their doors, 7 

### we have been shutting mills down too. Some 20 8 

### industry mills have shut down in the last ten 9 

### or 15 years, affecting dozens of communities, 10 

### thousands of workers. 11 

### So with these pressures how have 12 

### we interacted with you the regulators or with 13 

### the environmental community? I think it's 14 

### fair to say that we've worked as cooperatively 15 

### as we possibly could even under the pressures. 16 

### And we've tried to be super17 

### constructive and work with CARB to develop, as 18 

### Tom said, the de facto global standard for 19 

### these kind of products, you know, and 20 

### something that our company was behind, 21 

### continues to support, and embraced right from 22 

### the very outset.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 51 1 

### We didn't engage in the typical 2 

### adversarial approach with the regulators and 3 

### the environmental community. We thought we 4 

### would take a different approach. We felt that 5 

### we could improve and we wanted to improve, but 6 

### we wanted to do it in an open and 7 

### collaborative spirit. 8 

### Personally, this is my second time 9 

### testifying here. I did earlier when we were 10 

### first approached EPA with the idea of 11 

### federalizing this particular rule. 12 

### It's a standard, however, that 13 

### while it's technically feasible to achieve, as 14 

### evidence by those of us that achieve it, it's 15 

### more expensive. Our productivity levels have 16 

### gone down. We need to use more expensive 17 

### resins. The compliance testing is expensive. 18 

### And it is just flat out miserable to achieve 19 

### each and every day. 20 

### And we found that out this winter 21 

### when, you know, we have to have extremely 22 

### tight operating conditions to meet these

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 52 1 

### standards, and here we were faced with 2 

### unprecedented climatic conditions, and we were 3 

### running stock and inventory all the time in 4 

### quarantine because we weren't sure, our world 5 

### had shifted just that little bit and we lost 6 

### control and we found ourselves in a bind. 7 

### Just to let you know, this is 8 

### tough. Now we're a large company. We're one 9 

### that's made substantial investments in 10 

### laboratories and equipment and in people, 11 

### laboratory technicians. 12 

### We've configured our information 13 

### systems so that we can locate all the product 14 

### that's been made. We've got a traceability 15 

### system so that in the extreme case that 16 

### product gets into the field we can find it and 17 

### we can recall it back. 18 

### Now I just want you to think for a 19 

### minute what that will be like for our 20 

### customers, some of which are quite small. 21 

### Could they even begin to replicate that the 22 

### rigor of such a, it's such a tough rule that

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 53 1 

### we've been dealing with. 2 

### The reality is that that 20 3 

### percent or 28 percent of that wood-based 4 

### furniture that's still produced in this 5 

### country, a big piece of that's going to leave. 6 

### It will have to. 7 

### Understand that the wage rates 8 

### here that are necessarily high to support, you 9 

### know, our workers' lives are a multiple higher 10 

### than they are in the other furniture producing 11 

### jurisdictions, in China and Cambodia and 12 

### Vietnam. 13 

### And so as this rule goes in effect 14 

### globally and to the extent that people embrace 15 

### it, it will be much less expensive to follow 16 

### and to adhere to in other parts of the world. 17 

### You know, industry produces about 18 

### six billion feet of product. All of it's 19 

### finished. Nobody buys a piece of particle 20 

### board for a piece of particle board. They buy 21 

### it because it is engineered to be finished, 22 

### painted or laminated or having veneer fixed on

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 54 1 

### it. 2 

### So that's really the business 3 

### we're in. The difference is we're panel 4 

### producers. We can take the cost and the rigor 5 

### of this rule. Our customers cannot. They 6 

### can't handle the burden that this will put on 7 

### them. 8 

### And I do understand that there's 9 

### improvements that can be made by the EPA to 10 

### this rule and that makes great sense. And I 11 

### certainly applaud the work that's been done by 12 

### the EPA in an effort to tighten up those rules 13 

### and particularly in the area of the 14 

### reliability and credibility of third party 15 

### testing. I think these are advances that will 16 

### serve us well. 17 

### But I really do want to bring 18 

### focus on the importance of the EPA getting 19 

### this rule right. I want you to know that 20 

### Flakeboard supports the approach to laminated 21 

### panels that CARB has proposed. 22 

### It truly has deeply considered as

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 55 1 

### we've heard today the affected and interested 2 

### parties including those at EPA. It's fair and 3 

### balanced. It's enforceable. It recognizes 4 

### those companies that are true panel producers, 5 

### like we are, and those companies that aren't. 6 

### So for all these reasons, I 7 

### respectfully request that the EPA reconsider 8 

### its original position and that you adopt the 9 

### approach to laminated panels that's endorsed 10 

### by CARB, by our association at the CPA, by the 11 

### American Home Furnishings Association and so 12 

### many others. Thank you. 13 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Thank you, Kelly. 14 

### The next speaker is Dick Titus with the 15 

### Kitchen Cabinet Manufacturers Association. 16 

### MR. TITUS: Thank you. I 17 

### appreciate the opportunity to come before you 18 

### and address the proposed regulation. I think 19 

### we have been working together for a long time, 20 

### particularly CARB and at EPA. I think we know 21 

### many of the folks in the audience. 22 

### Just as a real quick snapshot,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 56 1 

### KCMA is the major national trade association 2 

### for manufacturers of kitchen cabinets and bath 3 

### vanities. Our members probably account for 4 

### approximately 70 percent of the market in the 5 

### U.S. of those products. 6 

### I think it is interesting to note 7 

### that about 60 -- well, probably about 60 8 

### percent of our members report sales of under 9 

### $10 million. So we have some larger members, 10 

### we have small members, and then beneath that 11 

### number there are thousands of small custom, we 12 

### call them custom shops, most of whom employ 13 

### fewer than 20 employees. 14 

### They're very local and regional in 15 

### their sales and distribution, and we have a 16 

### few of those in our membership. The Cabinet 17 

### Manufacturers have about 170 in number. 18 

### But the potential impact of the 19 

### regulation on these small businesses could be 20 

### literally horrific, and I am pleased to see 21 

### the consideration that both CARB and EPA are 22 

### giving to that segment.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 57 1 

### And I would also compliment both 2 

### CARB and EPA for their very serious efforts to 3 

### harmonize the two standards. And I know that 4 

### is a rigorous endeavor. It's been kind of 5 

### interesting for us to observe and be part of 6 

### that whole process. 7 

### But the openness and the 8 

### willingness to consider our concerns and the 9 

### interest that we have has really been very 10 

### rewarding and very encouraging. So I would 11 

### compliment very much. 12 

### I think I told Lynn Baker at their 13 

### last open meeting they had that they may have 14 

### come up with, they might have cut the Gordian 15 

### knot in this very, very difficult laminated 16 

### products discussion. 17 

### And as you know, many other 18 

### organizations and interests have weighed in on 19 

### this. The Small Business Administration 20 

### advocacy has been a lead for the small, a 21 

### voice for the small business side, and most of 22 

### what they've done support very much what FWIC,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 58 1 

### which you will hear more about from our 2 

### attorney a little later. But again we support 3 

### what CARB has proposed and is considering, and 4 

### we encourage EPA to very much adopt that 5 

### approach. 6 

### Actually we have been looking for, 7 

### have requested in our comments, which also 8 

### it's apparent have been closely reviewed and 9 

### even in this announcement we could see many of 10 

### our concerns being reflected and seeking 11 

### further information, and we do appreciate 12 

### that. 13 

### We're still of the opinion that 14 

### there should be an exemption for laminated 15 

### products regulation of some sort, particularly 16 

### in our case, raised panel doors which are not 17 

### making plywood, use a totally different 18 

### technology. We submitted some technical data 19 

### on that which we hope will be listened to and 20 

### adhered to by EPA. 21 

### But we do think that that is 22 

### something that still needs to be brought to

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 59 1 

### your attention. We think that, well, it's 2 

### interesting we've had this discussion about 3 

### trying to find a production cap, and we 4 

### understand the concerns that EPA has in 5 

### enforceability. 6 

### I might add that not only our 7 

### concern that there's not enough labs to do the 8 

### kind of testing that was required in the 9 

### original, and I think there's some general 10 

### understanding of that that's becoming 11 

### apparent, but that we think that having a 12 

### level of 100,000 square feet a year, and that 13 

### we originally suggested 125,000 a week, and 14 

### that's a pretty broad difference. 15 

### I would tell you that we think 16 

### 125,000 is too high. We also think 100,000 17 

### per year is probably too low. We still maybe 18 

### could have some fruitful discussion of some 19 

### other level. But we think it is something 20 

### that is worthy to be found in the final 21 

### regulation. 22 

### I think an important one for us

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 60 1 

### again is to encourage EPA to support 2 

### performance based formaldehyde emission 3 

### requirements for composite wood panel products 4 

### without bias toward any resin or manufacturing 5 

### technology employed to meet those 6 

### requirements, and that gets us into the ULEF 7 

### and NAF issue. And again, most of my comments 8 

### are reflected in the original comments that we 9 

### submitted. 10 

### Well, again, I don't want to be 11 

### too redundant, save some time. We do not 12 

### think additional testing should be required 13 

### for the reasons that were very well presented 14 

### earlier. We think that that is true. 15 

### I would also tell you that for the 16 

### last four years we've had an ongoing 17 

### environmental stewardship program and for the 18 

### last three years we've required that all 19 

### composite wood used by any of those attaining 20 

### such certification has to be CARB 2 compliant. 21 

### So I think, and we check the 22 

### records on sales or purchases and it has to

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 61 1 

### match up. We have a rigorous requirements and 2 

### standards that are in place. It is working 3 

### and it reflects the CARB requirements. 4 

### We would suggest to EPA that we 5 

### could provide further information on that, but 6 

### we think it's been working, is working, and is 7 

### something again worthy of strong consideration 8 

### by EPA. 9 

### Again, we support the comments and 10 

### the efforts of FWIC to achieve an industry 11 

### consensus position and we appreciate again the 12 

### opportunity to present. Thank you. 13 

### MR. COURTNAGE: The next speaker 14 

### is Cindy Squires and/or Joe O'Donnell of 15 

### International Wood Products Association. 16 

### MS. SQUIRES: Thank you. I'm 17 

### Cindy Squires. I'm the executive director for 18 

### the International Wood Products Association, 19 

### and I represent the importers of wood and wood 20 

### products as well as the domestic and foreign 21 

### manufacturers of those products and the trade 22 

### facilitators for that system.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 62 1 

### IWPA is not a testing organization 2 

### so we will derive no revenue from additional 3 

### testing that may be required by the EPA or the 4 

### CARB proposal, and as a result of that we do 5 

### have a little bit of a different viewpoint. 6 

### However, we do want to make sure 7 

### that any program that is put forward is 8 

### workable regardless of what tests or process 9 

### may be done. 10 

### We are very happy to have been a 11 

### participant in the FWIC coalition, and we have 12 

### three major items that we thought would be 13 

### helpful to bring forward to this group from 14 

### the importer perspective. 15 

### First of all, from our perspective 16 

### we think that no matter what happens between 17 

### EPA and CARB there should definitely be an 18 

### effort to minimize the economic impact on the 19 

### affected industries, and that is a global set 20 

### of industries. 21 

### And the critical part of that 22 

### effort is to make sure that these programs are

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 63 1 

### substantially the same. The second that we 2 

### have any changes between the two different 3 

### programs it becomes that much more complex to 4 

### be able to comply with it. And that gets, I 5 

### think, often when you look at a global 6 

### environment it makes it even more difficult 7 

### for people to comply. 8 

### Second, we want to make sure that, 9 

### you know, we're really recognizing that the 10 

### CARB and the EPA proposals are expanding the 11 

### scope pretty significantly. And we've talked 12 

### a bit about that with the laminated products. 13 

### But there are also new cores that are being 14 

### brought into the products that have not been 15 

### regulated previously. 16 

### And third, the rollout must 17 

### certainly provide for adequate time for 18 

### implementation, particularly when you're 19 

### talking about these new product classes. 20 

### First of all, the talk about the 21 

### minimizing of the economic impact. I 22 

### mentioned about the need to have the programs

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 64 1 

### be substantially sustained, and that's 2 

### absolutely critical. I mean even minor 3 

### differences can cause so much confusion in the 4 

### workplace. 5 

### And I can tell you that just 6 

### trying to explain that to a global audience is 7 

### going to be very complicated. And for that 8 

### reason we're very pleased to see that EPA has 9 

### reopened the comment period and that they're 10 

### looking carefully at the CARB proposal. 11 

### We're encouraged that this is a 12 

### deliberative approach. We give great credit 13 

### to EPA for this work. And we're especially 14 

### pleased to see that EPA and CARB have been 15 

### having, as what I understand, weekly to 16 

### biweekly meetings to try to get the point of 17 

### having some parity between these two roles. 18 

### That should be encouraged, and it's not an 19 

### easy thing to do and we recognize that it's 20 

### been a difficult process. 21 

### We do support the objectives of 22 

### the formaldehyde emission standards to protect

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 65 1 

### the health of the public. However, we want to 2 

### make it clear that that harmonization and the 3 

### narrow tailoring of those regulations are also 4 

### important objectives of the rule, and in fact 5 

### TSCA itself mandates that EPA must put forward 6 

### the least burdensome option that adequately 7 

### protects against health risk. And that least 8 

### burdensome option is, in my view, one that is 9 

### going to be consistent between the two 10 

### programs. 11 

### And I think it's particularly 12 

### important to put it out that any unnecessary 13 

### cost that has been imposed by the rules and 14 

### especially by having a difference between the 15 

### two, will be immediately felt by U.S. 16 

### consumers. 17 

### It's going to be felt in terms of 18 

### reduced competitiveness for U.S. produced 19 

### goods, and in those goods in the global 20 

### marketplace. Because don't forget, we should 21 

### be exporting our goods as well. 22 

### We talk a lot about imports, but

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 66 1 

### the trade moves both ways. And if we make our 2 

### regime so complicated for those domestic 3 

### producers they are not going to be able to 4 

### look forward to those export markets. 5 

### And one of those ways that you can 6 

### minimize that cost is to look at a de minimis 7 

### type of exemption, and I know that KCMA has 8 

### put forward an exemption. 9 

### But I would also say you need to 10 

### make sure that you look at an exemption that 11 

### talks about just a small amount of wood in 12 

### another product. Because wood will begin to 13 

### be engineered out of products if you make the 14 

### compliance regime to include them so difficult 15 

### to do so, so having a de minimis that includes 16 

### both sides, I think, is important. 17 

### Now I think the big issue, and the 18 

### one reason we're here in this room, is the 19 

### second point that I wanted to talk about and 20 

### that is the expansion to such new product 21 

### classes. 22 

### Now we talked about the fact that

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 67 1 

### we have this new laminated product expansion 2 

### and that will have a profound impact on a 3 

### number of small businesses and simply should 4 

### be minimized. But there are also other 5 

### product classes that are being expanded to, 6 

### and I think it's important to recognize that 7 

### that is occurring. 8 

### Now specific to laminated 9 

### products, and I think we all agree that it 10 

### isn't a significant expansion, and IWPA's 11 

### position has been previously to EPA that we 12 

### absolutely oppose the expansion to laminated 13 

### products. 14 

### We felt it was an overreaching and 15 

### unnecessary thing to do. And particularly 16 

### because of the unfamiliarity of those 17 

### businesses to those rules, the capacity of the 18 

### TPC system, and in our view the chilling 19 

### effect that that expansion would have on wood 20 

### products, it simply would make wood products 21 

### more expensive and for not any real good 22 

### reason.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 68 1 

### That being said, and while our 2 

### preferred approach would be not to regulate 3 

### laminated products, if a regulation were to go 4 

### forward on that sector we believe EPA and CARB 5 

### should be very harmonized on that approach and 6 

### that the CARB approach merits a very serious 7 

### look by EPA and has definitely been much more 8 

### narrowly tailored than the one that EPA has 9 

### put forward. 10 

### We do, however, continue to have 11 

### some concerns with how that may be actually 12 

### put forward, and in particular we are 13 

### concerned that we still are hearing about 14 

### deconstructive testing which as we understand 15 

### it is just simply, it's not a proven 16 

### technology and it makes much more sense to 17 

### just start with one level of a performance 18 

### based standard of 0.13. 19 

### Now specific to other products 20 

### that are being included in here, I think it's 21 

### important to note that lumber core, two-ply, 22 

### as well as special core is also being included

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 69 1 

### into this rulemaking. And those are 2 

### significant changes for those manufacturers 3 

### who have never been involved in this program 4 

### before. 5 

### And I do want to raise the issue 6 

### of special core partly because in my view the 7 

### definitions I've seen so far pretty much 8 

### include everything that you could ever think 9 

### of and may have a chilling effect on 10 

### innovation. 11 

### We're trying to figure out what 12 

### exactly is envisioned in that and so we would 13 

### welcome additional discussion with the agency 14 

### about what they envision with that. But 15 

### mainly because I think it's going to be hard 16 

### to really translate that out into the field 17 

### when it is such a broad definition. 18 

### My third major point I wanted to 19 

### say was that there really does need to be 20 

### adequate time for the rollout of whatever 21 

### regulatory scheme goes forward, particularly 22 

### since we are talking about potential expansion

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 70 1 

### into whole new product areas. 2 

### You know, I think you've got to 3 

### think about it, not just in terms of trying to 4 

### get something into compliance, getting the 5 

### education out there, but also think about a 6 

### warranty. When you put a warranty on a 7 

### product you're doing it based on exactly what 8 

### you know that product is. 9 

### And perhaps you may find that you 10 

### want to reformulate a product in order to 11 

### comply with the new rules. Well, you're going 12 

### to need to have time in order to know whether 13 

### or not that product is durable enough, if it 14 

### stands up to the new testing. That's going to 15 

### take time. 16 

### And even just a simple 12-month 17 

### warranty for a product, you would want to have 18 

### testing for that for 18 months. So you need 19 

### to recognize that there is going to be some 20 

### important impact. 21 

### In terms of foreign producer 22 

### impact, the proposed rule would require a

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 71 1 

### foreign company that would have to, via the 2 

### importer, do some certification. That means 3 

### there's going to need to be a lot of look 4 

### through a very complex supply chain. 5 

### We would like to make sure that 6 

### EPA and CARB is aware of that and recognize 7 

### that it is a severe challenge and it is going 8 

### to take time to get that complex supply chain 9 

### educated and in compliance. 10 

### And so that is why we're so 11 

### interested in making sure that whatever 12 

### rollout occurs that it is sensitive to this 13 

### very complex web of supply chains and it 14 

### allows for time backing all the way up. 15 

### And also shipping time amongst the 16 

### different players. Things are going to be 17 

### produced in one country, sent to another 18 

### country and then maybe coming to the United 19 

### States and we need to be recognizing of that. 20 

### So with that, you know, I thank 21 

### you again for the outreach. I appreciate that 22 

### EPA has taken the time to reopen the comment

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 72 1 

### period, and we look forward to working very 2 

### closely with CARB and EPA in the future. 3 

### Thank you. 4 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Thank you. Our 5 

### next speaker is Jackson Morrill of the 6 

### American Chemistry Council. 7 

### MR. MORRILL: Okay, good 8 

### afternoon. My name is Jackson Morrill and I'm 9 

### the director of the American Chemistry 10 

### Council's Formaldehyde Panel. And on behalf 11 

### of our members I would like to thank EPA, as 12 

### I think many of my colleagues have already 13 

### done today, for opening up the comment period 14 

### and providing us this opportunity to share our 15 

### views on, in particular, the laminated 16 

### products issue. 17 

### The ACC's Formaldehyde Panel 18 

### membership is made up of resin producers that 19 

### over the course of the past several decades 20 

### made tremendous strides in developing product 21 

### offerings to meet performance requirements set 22 

### by customers and by CARB's ATCM.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 73 1 

### These efforts have led to the 2 

### development of resin technologies including 3 

### ultra-low emitting formaldehyde resins that 4 

### encompass primarily advanced urea-formaldehyde 5 

### chemistry. 6 

### These resin systems meet or exceed 7 

### technical performance levels for a wide range 8 

### of composite wood products while also ensuring 9 

### compliance with current CARB ATCM technology 10 

### based emissions requirements. 11 

### And I think Tom said it very well 12 

### today. It must be noted that these really are 13 

### the most stringent emission standards in the 14 

### world today. 15 

### The ACC Formaldehyde Panel is also 16 

### a member of the Federal Wood Industries 17 

### Coalition, or FWIC, and we certainly through 18 

### the course of that effort have fully supported 19 

### the positions taken by that coalition and we 20 

### look forward to Brock's thoughts as he shares 21 

### them with you today on behalf of that 22 

### coalition later this afternoon.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 74 1 

### Regarding the issue of laminated 2 

### products, ACC commented to EPA in early 3 

### October of last year that it should exclude 4 

### laminated products from the definition of 5 

### hardwood plywood and not require additional 6 

### testing as was proposed. 7 

### We provided our comments to 8 

### extending the scope of the proposed rule to 9 

### include laminated products exceeded what 10 

### Congress had initially intended in the 11 

### Formaldehyde Standards for Composite Wood 12 

### Products Act, and in particular that Congress 13 

### made clear that EPA seek to promulgate a rule 14 

### that is the "equivalent to compliance with the 15 

### CARB ATCM." 16 

### With CARB's decision to also 17 

### regulate laminated products, however, the 18 

### dynamic has changed. And over the course of 19 

### two CARB-sponsored public workshops, the ACC 20 

### Formaldehyde Panel has come to the position 21 

### that the current CARB proposal that EPA is 22 

### considering provides a realistic compromise

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 75 1 

### given the varied interests at stake. 2 

### We believe that the proposal is 3 

### implementable both for the regulator and the 4 

### regulated community. And we would 5 

### particularly like to highlight two features of 6 

### CARB's proposed approach that are particularly 7 

### important to our members, and I think these 8 

### are probably familiar to all of you from our 9 

### comments that we've made in the past. 10 

### First, CARB's proposal maintains a 11 

### performance based approach to resin 12 

### technologies. This is fully consistent with 13 

### CARB's Phase 2, and the proposed limits in 14 

### CARB's laminated products proposal are based 15 

### on the highest Phase 2 emission standard for 16 

### products used as platforms for laminated 17 

### products, thin, medium density fiberboard. 18 

### The performance based approach has 19 

### been proven through experience to allow board 20 

### manufacturers to effectively meet or exceed 21 

### current CARB Phase 2 emission standards. In 22 

### fact, CARB's Phase 2 has unequivocally shown

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 76 1 

### that existing and developing technology for 2 

### both resins and panel manufacturing are 3 

### capable of delivering composite panel products 4 

### that emit at or very near the emission levels 5 

### for natural wood. 6 

### By taking a performance based 7 

### approach, the CARB Phase 2 program has had the 8 

### effect of encouraging advancement in all 9 

### technologies, and provides the widest array of 10 

### options for panel manufacturers in the 11 

### downstream chain of commerce. 12 

### Now providing this flexibility to 13 

### the marketplace to choose the resin system 14 

### that works best for the specific application 15 

### is critical. There are a number of factors 16 

### that laminators need to take into account when 17 

### choosing a resin technology, including ability 18 

### to comply with emission limits, technical 19 

### performance, readily available supply, and 20 

### price. 21 

### Certain resin technologies simply 22 

### do not perform in certain applications, and

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 77 1 

### therefore there could be real technological 2 

### limitations. As we noted extensively in our 3 

### comments on the EPA's previously published 4 

### proposed rule, there's really no basis to 5 

### support an approach to regulating laminated 6 

### products that would promote the use of one 7 

### resin type over formaldehyde based resin 8 

### technologies, NAF resins over ULEF resin 9 

### technologies. 10 

### CARB's data on other regulated 11 

### categories makes clear that manufacturers 12 

### continue to rely on UF based resin 13 

### technologies to meet or exceed CARB Phase 2 14 

### emission standards, which is a real testimony 15 

### to the effectiveness and capability of UF 16 

### based resins to comply with emission standards 17 

### such as those in CARB's proposed laminated 18 

### products regulation, which again is the 19 

### world's most stringent emission, we're talking 20 

### about the world's most stringent emissions 21 

### controls for composite wood products. 22 

### Moreover, the test methodology for

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 78 1 

### assessing performance under temperature and 2 

### humidity conditions, the ASTM E1333 test 3 

### method is mandated by federal statute, thus 4 

### already setting in place a performance based 5 

### framework for all types of resin systems. 6 

### The bottom line is that the 7 

### experience in the CARB and the scientific 8 

### underpinnings of testing and certification 9 

### processes demonstrate that a performance based 10 

### approach that does not discriminate against 11 

### ULEF technologies can assure compliance with 12 

### the statutorily mandated emission limits while 13 

### meeting diverse market needs and minimizing 14 

### economic impact. 15 

### It is however important to note 16 

### that economic impact is still a critical 17 

### issue, and I think some have noted that today, 18 

### one that EPA must continue to consider. As we 19 

### also provided extensively in our comments, the 20 

### proposed rules cost exceed its benefits, and 21 

### in addition, the benefits analysis does not 22 

### meet EPA on these protocols and is not

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 79 1 

### supported by the best available science. 2 

### So even though our comments today 3 

### are focused on providing input on CARB's 4 

### proposed approach to laminated products, we 5 

### would certainly urge that EPA take a much 6 

### closer look at the benefits analysis going 7 

### forward and we still consider that a concern. 8 

### Second, we would like to highlight 9 

### within the CARB approach what they've done 10 

### with CBI. We believe that CARB has artfully 11 

### addressed the issue of confidential business 12 

### information, or CBI, in its proposal to 13 

### laminated products by restricting the need for 14 

### and communication of sensitive CBI. 15 

### CARB's proposal addressed its 16 

### concerns regarding noncompliant lots by 17 

### incorporating a 72-hour notification 18 

### requirement, alleviating the need to express 19 

### a mandate that panel producers provide test 20 

### results to downstream users. 21 

### Under this approach, downstream 22 

### users can still contract with their suppliers

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 80 1 

### for access to test data, but it preserves the 2 

### ability for those suppliers to protect 3 

### confidential business information. 4 

### We also applaud, although not 5 

### directly related to laminated products, CARB's 6 

### proposed amendments to not require formulation 7 

### information for any of the existing exemptions 8 

### as is reflected in the most recent amendments, 9 

### relying instead on supplier name and name of 10 

### product. We think that's the right way to go. 11 

### This approach provides CARB with 12 

### enough information to regulate without 13 

### necessitating the transfer of CBI. So we 14 

### would strongly advocate that EPA seek to 15 

### synchronize with CARB in its proposed 16 

### approaches to addressing this issue. 17 

### I think you've heard this from a 18 

### number of folks and we want to reiterate the 19 

### importance of this issue as well that we would 20 

### certainly consider -- I'm sorry -- encourage 21 

### EPA to consider adopting the CARB proposal for 22 

### regulating laminated products to ensure

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 81 1 

### regulatory consistency across the United 2 

### States. As I'm sure many stakeholders would 3 

### agree, regulation across the United States 4 

### poses numerous challenges that can have real 5 

### economic and legal implications. 6 

### As I noted above, we believe that 7 

### alignment with CARB is also consistent with 8 

### congressional intent. We do want to make 9 

### clear that we've certainly, as I think Cindy 10 

### said it well too, we really appreciate all 11 

### that EPA and CARB have done to coordinate on 12 

### this issue, and we certainly hope that this 13 

### level of coordination will continue going 14 

### forward so that unnecessary regulatory 15 

### inconsistency can be avoided. 16 

### We believe that CARB's proposed 17 

### approach provides a workable compromise. As 18 

### CARB has highlighted in their publicly 19 

### available summary, the approach to regulating 20 

### laminated products establishes a performance 21 

### based emission ceiling and achieves additional 22 

### emission reductions beyond the current

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 82 1 

### regulation by ensuring that a laminated 2 

### product does not result in emissions any 3 

### greater than the certified platform. 4 

### Again we thank EPA for this 5 

### session, and we hope that EPA continues its 6 

### close dialogue with CARB and all stakeholders, 7 

### and ultimately that it adopt CARB's approach 8 

### to regulating laminated products. Thank you. 9 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Our next speaker 10 

### is Robert Criner of the National Association 11 

### of Home Builders. 12 

### MR. CRINER: Good afternoon. 13 

### Pleased to be here today. I represent the 14 

### National Association of Home Builders and I 15 

### wanted to share our concerns. Again, my name 16 

### is Robert Criner. I am not an employee of 17 

### theirs, but I am a remodeler from Virginia, 18 

### and I'm chairman of the NAHB Remodelers 19 

### Council. 20 

### NAHB is a Washington, D.C. based 21 

### trade association representing over 140,000 22 

### members who design and construct the single-

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 83 1 

### family homes and we also remodel existing 2 

### homes. Collectively, NAHB members will 3 

### construct 80 percent of the new home units for 4 

### this year. 5 

### In addition, 57 percent of NAHB 6 

### remodeler members and many of its associates 7 

### are involved in the remodeling industry. NAHB 8 

### membership includes builders, remodelers, 9 

### suppliers, and others who serve the 10 

### residential, light commercial, and industrial. 11 

### Furthermore, more than 95 percent 12 

### of NAHB members meet the federal definition of 13 

### a small entity defined by the Small Business 14 

### Administration. NAHB members regularly work 15 

### with thousands of composite wood products that 16 

### may be covered by the proposed rule. 17 

### The uncertainty of the regulation 18 

### for home builders combined with the 19 

### duplicative recordkeeping requirements in the 20 

### proposed rule impose significant, unnecessary 21 

### burdens for the NAHB members. 22 

### On October 8th, NAHB submitted

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 84 1 

### comments on the proposal to express concerns 2 

### for the uncertainty and of the applicability 3 

### of the regulation and recordkeeping and burden 4 

### for our members. We appreciate this 5 

### opportunity to provide further comments on the 6 

### treatment for laminated products under the 7 

### proposed regulations. 8 

### The proposed requirements for 9 

### fabricators should be harmonized with the 10 

### California Air Resource Board's regulations to 11 

### avoid differing regulatory requirements. More 12 

### specifically, EPA should include a limited 13 

### applicability to fabricators in regulating 14 

### laminated products. 15 

### Currently CARB's regulations do 16 

### not require third party certification in 17 

### testing requirements for a fabricator. 18 

### Instead, a fabricator's requirements are 19 

### limited to recordkeeping and labeling. 20 

### EPA's proposal, however, will 21 

### impose third party certification in testing 22 

### requirements for fabricators. The limited

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 85 1 

### applicability to fabricators provided in 2 

### CARB's regulations must be reflected in EPA's 3 

### regulations to prevent regulatory confusion 4 

### and an increased burden on the regulated 5 

### community, many of which are small businesses 6 

### like myself. 7 

### More importantly, if EPA's 8 

### regulations do not include a limited 9 

### applicability to fabricators on laminated 10 

### products, the problem for home builders and 11 

### remodelers will be further exacerbated due to 12 

### the contradicting and vague qualifications for 13 

### a fabricator and a retailer. 14 

### For example, within the preamble 15 

### of the proposed rule EPA explains that a home 16 

### builder or presumably a remodeler or any other 17 

### type of contractor who purchases a product 18 

### such as a kitchen cabinet could be considered 19 

### a retailer or a fabricator under the proposed 20 

### rule and therefore will have to comply with 21 

### the proposed rule's recordkeeping 22 

### requirements.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 86 1 

### More specifically, EPA indicated 2 

### that a home builder who purchases finished 3 

### cabinets from another entity, installs them in 4 

### a home, and then sells the home to a customer 5 

### would be considered a retailer as long as no 6 

### major modifications are made to the cabinetry 7 

### in the process of installing them. 8 

### To me this means that if I perform 9 

### a major modification, whatever that might be, 10 

### on a kitchen cabinet, then I may be regulated 11 

### as a fabricator. The issue here is that it's 12 

### not clear what EPA means by a major 13 

### modification because no such definition or 14 

### even an explanation has been provided. 15 

### Without explaining what 16 

### constitutes a major modification, EPA is 17 

### leaving the door open to speculation that will 18 

### result in confusion. In addition, EPA must 19 

### also address the existing rules of certain 20 

### entities as an installer in the same way as 21 

### CARB has. 22 

### According to CARB, an installer

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 87 1 

### simply puts finished goods into service. EPA 2 

### should also clarify whether such an entity 3 

### would be regulated for making modifications to 4 

### a product. For example, will EPA regulate me 5 

### as a fabricator if I purchase a pre-made 6 

### finished cabinet, if I get the kitchen 7 

### cabinets and I resize one of those cabinets to 8 

### be able to install them? 9 

### For example, if I shorten a 10 

### cabinet to make room for a refrigerator, or if 11 

### my plumber cuts the back of a cabinet out to 12 

### make room for the piping? In this role we are 13 

### only product users much like other customers 14 

### who reside at the end of the supply chain. 15 

### EPA should provide an explicit 16 

### exemption to an entity that functions in this 17 

### role as an installer as I have just described, 18 

### exempting such entities from the burdensome 19 

### recordkeeping and labeling requirements. 20 

### The regulatory burden on 21 

### fabricators is further increased by another 22 

### requirement in the proposed rule which is also

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 88 1 

### inconsistent with CARB's requirements. EPA's 2 

### proposal includes a recordkeeping requirement 3 

### which includes a three-year record retention. 4 

### California on the other hand only requires two 5 

### years for its record retention. 6 

### EPA's authority to compel record 7 

### retention is restrained to only those that are 8 

### necessary for the effective enforcement. EPA 9 

### has failed to show a compelling reason to 10 

### justify the necessity of increasing the 11 

### recordkeeping burden to three years. 12 

### From an enforcement perspective 13 

### under TSCA, similar to other recordkeeping 14 

### requirements that I must comply with such as 15 

### the Lead RRP rule, penalties can be assessed 16 

### up to $37,500 per day per violation. 17 

### The difference between a record 18 

### retention violation for three years versus two 19 

### years is substantial. Aligning EPA's record 20 

### retention requirements with CARB's will 21 

### decrease recordkeeping burden on regulated 22 

### entities like my company and it will ensure a

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 89 1 

### smooth transition of the regulation on a 2 

### national level. 3 

### Robert, you mentioned earlier that 4 

### you would clarify something for me. Could you 5 

### tell me what a major modification is? Would 6 

### that be a no? You're working on that one. 7 

### I'd be glad to help. 8 

### Well, the problem is if I go into 9 

### a closet and I buy a board which is already 10 

### certified by one of these people, and I pick 11 

### it up at Lowe's next to a customer of mine 12 

### who's picking one up for his closet as well, 13 

### is it a major modification if I cut the board? 14 

### How about if I take this same 15 

### board and cut it up into five pieces and make 16 

### a shoebox for it? Where's the major 17 

### modification? It's the same board my 18 

### customer's buying next door to me. It's not, 19 

### in my opinion, shouldn't throw me into the 20 

### recordkeeping burden that we talk about. 21 

### The other concern is that we talk 22 

### about these records and this cabinet or a

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 90 1 

### small toilet topper for a bathroom or 2 

### something that may have a label on it. The 3 

### person I send to Lowe's to buy that is my 4 

### lowest employee, the runner. 5 

### Is he going to code the invoice 6 

### right to get it in the right job to where it's 7 

### a $37,500 mistake? He doesn't make that much 8 

### in a year. 9 

### I appreciate the time you've given 10 

### me today and would like to close with that 11 

### NAHB supports the development of cost 12 

### effective and justifiably reasonable 13 

### regulations. 14 

### NAHB continues to advocate against 15 

### unnecessary regulations to entities that are 16 

### not directly responsible for the targeted 17 

### issue such as the case here. The EPA's 18 

### proposed rule should be harmonized with CARB's 19 

### regulation, and thank you for the time. 20 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Okay. The next 21 

### speaker is Tom Neltner of the Natural 22 

### Resources Defense Council.

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 91 1 

### MR. NELTNER: Thanks for the 2 

### wonderful and thoughtful comments I've been 3 

### getting today in hearing how the industry has 4 

### moved on this issue and CARB's continuing work 5 

### on it. 6 

### Today I'm speaking as an 7 

### individual. The public interest community is 8 

### going to submit comments, but we wanted to 9 

### hear what was going to be said today to be 10 

### able to prepare those comments. So they'll be 11 

### submitted by the deadline, Cindy. 12 

### When EPA finalizes the rule later 13 

### this year hopefully it closes a chapter for 14 

### the people who struggled with their health 15 

### after living in FEMA trailers after Hurricanes 16 

### Katrina and Rita disrupted their lives. 17 

### The high levels of formaldehyde 18 

### they struggled with appear to have largely 19 

### stemmed from poorly made composite wood panels 20 

### imported from overseas. By nationalizing the 21 

### California Air Resource Board's standards for 22 

### composite wood products, EPA protects those

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 92 1 

### residents by setting high standards and, more 2 

### importantly, establishing a means to ensure 3 

### domestic and overseas manufacturers meet those 4 

### standards. 5 

### I applaud EPA for staying true to 6 

### the science when it raised concerns about 7 

### potential formaldehyde emissions from 8 

### manufacturers who glued a thin layer of veneer 9 

### to CARB-compliant wood. 10 

### To be honest, until this year I 11 

### didn't realize that a thin layer of veneer 12 

### could be only 1,000th of an inch thick. 13 

### That's essentially just a piece of paper, a 14 

### paper-thin coating on resin that could be 15 

### easily saturated with glue and off-gas 16 

### formaldehyde. 17 

### So applaud EPA for staying true to 18 

### the science. If that operation is done 19 

### poorly, whether in the United States or in 20 

### China, there is sufficient evidence that 21 

### laminators could undermine some of the 22 

### benefits that CARB, Congress, EPA, the

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 93 1 

### industry, and the public thought they were 2 

### getting from the rule. 3 

### And so they thought they were 4 

### getting it from a rule whether it's furniture, 5 

### cabinets, or other wood products, the goal was 6 

### to make sure they consistently achieve the 7 

### stringent standards for formaldehyde off8 

### gassing. 9 

### However, EPA proposed solution in 10 

### the June 23rd proposal was simply a bridge too 11 

### far. From a purely public health perspective 12 

### I get it. I see the value with third party 13 

### certification for all products and I believe 14 

### that the health benefits would offset the 15 

### costs. 16 

### While true to the science, EPA's 17 

### proposal needed more creativity to craft a 18 

### pragmatic solution that ensured that 19 

### laminators did not undermine the objectives of 20 

### the rule and did it in a reasonable, cost 21 

### effective manner. 22 

### So I'm pleased to see EPA's,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 94 1 

### CARB's, and industry's ongoing and sustained 2 

### efforts to find the best solution and for EPA 3 

### to seek additional comment on CARB's March 4, 4 

### 2014 proposal. 5 

### I support CARB's approach of 6 

### setting an emission standard of 0.13 for 7 

### laminated products and creating a category for 8 

### composite wood products for these things that 9 

### seem distinct from hardwood plywood. 10 

### Unfortunately I do not think CARB's approach 11 

### is far enough to ensure that the products will 12 

### actually achieve the standard. 13 

### It's not a problem with the 0.13. 14 

### I think it needs a little bit more on the 15 

### verification side. CARB was up here and, I 16 

### think, appropriately talked about the fact 17 

### that they can test the products, like the 18 

### paint for it. 19 

### Unfortunately I think wood 20 

### products are different because that test would 21 

### involve deconstructive testing, and 22 

### deconstructive testing in my years of work,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 95 1 

### and it's now been six years of work with 2 

### industry, is not a popular concept. It's not 3 

### a concept I think they think is validated or 4 

### enforceable. 5 

### So as long as it's going to be 6 

### enforced, the 0.13 is enforced with the 7 

### deconstructive testing, until there's 8 

### widespread support I don't see that as an 9 

### enforceable way to do it. I think there needs 10 

### to be some middle bridge, and I am not asking 11 

### for third party certification. 12 

### I think Bill, in particular, 13 

### you've talked to me and helped me understand 14 

### the challenges of that. What I think is 15 

### needed is, I think a performance standard 16 

### alone without means to verify compliance such 17 

### as a third party certification is 18 

### insufficient. 19 

### So I'm trying to find a middle 20 

### ground. Kip hit to some of that middle ground 21 

### when he talked on behalf of HPVA earlier. I 22 

### think a laminator should be responsible for

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 96 1 

### self-certifying. I'm okay with self2 

### certifying for those laminators that the final 3 

### product not only used a core that complied 4 

### with the standards, but that the product as a 5 

### whole after lamination meets the 0.13 6 

### standard. 7 

### At a minimum, the self8 

### certification must be included in the 9 

### documentation that travels with the final 10 

### product so downstream users can see it, so 11 

### when that certification is there, they're not 12 

### just certifying that they used a compliant 13 

### core but that the wood also meets the 0.13 14 

### standard. 15 

### In addition, I think the 16 

### laminators should register with EPA when it 17 

### makes that self-certification. Because as a 18 

### practical matter I'm struggling with how EPA 19 

### can enforce a rule when it doesn't know who's 20 

### all out there. 21 

### I understand that that may be a 22 

### significant burden, so I think that's an issue

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 97 1 

### that needs to be discussed. I do clearly 2 

### understand the risk that some companies, 3 

### especially those that are out of touch with 4 

### their customers' best interests, may not be 5 

### truthful when they self-certify. 6 

### We are relying on the veracity of 7 

### people ultimately. And also they may not have 8 

### any idea what they're doing. So I do see the 9 

### value in some testing to make sure that they 10 

### are capable of doing it. That they can 11 

### produce compliant wood, and yes, they can 12 

### cherry-pick the materials. 13 

### But I think it's important because 14 

### not only does EPA or CARB do verification, but 15 

### in my working with this industry and the KCMA 16 

### and AHFA, your members do a supply chain 17 

### verification. So if there is a means of 18 

### checking the paperwork to ask what kinds of 19 

### resins did you use, that kind of verification 20 

### is important, and that's why I think there 21 

### needs to be more than just 0.13. 22 

### So I do recognize, and I read this

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 98 1 

### in AHFA's comments that a single piece of 2 

### furniture could come from many sources that 3 

### could use different glues and different 4 

### systems. I think that we should have an 5 

### option to check one or more of three options. 6 

### I do not quite agree that this 7 

### performance standard alone without any 8 

### verification is sufficient. I do think EPA 9 

### was correct in saying that if you self-certify 10 

### that you're using no added formaldehyde glue, 11 

### I think that's alone is enough. 12 

### I think one option of those three 13 

### is a no added formaldehyde resin. I think EPA 14 

### was correct to exempt laminators who use these 15 

### resins. Not just because the formaldehyde 16 

### off-gassing would be minimal, but because it 17 

### could be easily verified by checking the 18 

### records. 19 

### If the firm only purchased NAF 20 

### resins, the investigator whether at EPA or 21 

### CARB, or the buyer, should be satisfied. I 22 

### also think that there needs to be more than

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 99 1 

### just NAF resins. I think the ULEF resin needs 2 

### to be considered as an option. 3 

### And in my mind, the way ULEF 4 

### resins are done in the CARB rule, which 5 

### involves extensive testing at a facility, 6 

### isn't going to work, because that's no more 7 

### than, they still have to do third party 8 

### certification, in essence. 9 

### So what I'd like to see is EPA 10 

### create an option for ULEF where a ULEF 11 

### manufacturer who shows that when you use this 12 

### product in a certain way that it gives EPA or 13 

### CARB confidence that they can consistently 14 

### meet the 0.13. 15 

### We should encourage the technology 16 

### innovation that's out there and allow that 17 

### resin to be certified. Effectively, one of 18 

### those creative companies that are making these 19 

### resins would make a showing to EPA or CARB, 20 

### convince them that you follow these 21 

### instructions, these laminators will stay in 22 

### the limit, they'll be fine. And I think

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 100 1 

### that's the best way to create an option that 2 

### it spurs innovation. 3 

### For all those who don't want to 4 

### use a NAF or ULEF resin, I think they need to 5 

### be able to pull some of their product. Send 6 

### it to, probably annual, send it off for a 7 

### small chamber testing. What is it? Drop it 8 

### into a FedEx package, send it to the lab and 9 

### get it tested annually or whenever the 10 

### certification needs to be renewed. 11 

### But I think there needs to be some 12 

### way, not that they're showing that they every 13 

### day meet the standards, but that they're 14 

### capable of meeting the standards. And there 15 

### needs to be some of that verification. 16 

### And the supply chain could check. 17 

### Did you do the testing? Let me see the 18 

### results. So it engages the supply chain 19 

### without having to involve the deconstructive 20 

### testing that I know is so controversial. 21 

### The bottom line on this is that 22 

### self-certification is a pragmatic solution

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 101 1 

### that will provide the reasonable means of 2 

### verification. By allowing those three options 3 

### to be explored we're giving people choices. 4 

### They don't have to do testing if they want to 5 

### go to the different resins. 6 

### Overall, I have to say I admire 7 

### CARB for sticking with this but also for the 8 

### way you've had workshops to discuss it and 9 

### actually had that engagement. I know that 10 

### isn't EPA's typical, its rulemaking process, 11 

### so I think the interplay between EPA and CARB 12 

### has been wonderful, and industry's ongoing 13 

### commitment to finding the right way has been 14 

### really impressive. 15 

### Overall, I've heard the comments. 16 

### I see your point. I think if we look at self17 

### certification with a little bit of 18 

### verification on it in giving people options, 19 

### I think we can reach the conclusion. We're 20 

### almost there. I'd like to see EPA get this 21 

### rule out this year. Thank you. 22 

### MR. COURTNAGE: Our next speaker

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 102 1 

### is Brock Landry of the Federal Wood Industries 2 

### Coalition. 3 

### MR. LANDRY: Good afternoon. I'm 4 

### Brock Landry. I'm a partner with Venable, 5 

### here in town, and today have the honor of 6 

### appearing as counsel to the Federal Wood 7 

### Industries Coalition. 8 

### As Tom Julia mentioned, this is 9 

### really a remarkable group. It has not only 10 

### panel producers, resin producers, 11 

### international interests, downstream users in 12 

### the furniture, cabinet, molding, flooring 13 

### industries. 14 

### What we've tried to do is bring 15 

### together the different interested parties to 16 

### the maximum extent possible to give a united 17 

### voice to the regulators to try to streamline 18 

### the process and work for the best possible 19 

### regulation. 20 

### And again we commend both CARB and 21 

### EPA for their openness in talking to us about 22 

### these things and the interaction, and today's

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 103 1 

### session is just one instance of that which we 2 

### appreciate. 3 

### I thought it might be useful just 4 

### to review the bidding a little bit about how 5 

### we got to this place about talking about 6 

### laminated products, now six years after it was 7 

### first introduced at CARB. 8 

### The 2008 regulation at CARB did 9 

### have a very broad exemption from the hardwood 10 

### plywood definition for laminated products. As 11 

### Lynn mentioned, the only real requirement was 12 

### that you use a composite core. Extremely 13 

### broad, split out a species of hardwood plywood 14 

### into a non-regulated environment with the 15 

### exception of the core. 16 

### When the EPA proposal came out it 17 

### had a very much more limited restriction. And 18 

### the central feature of that is to qualify as 19 

### a laminated product the laminate had to be 20 

### attached with an NAF resin. This is 21 

### impossible in many situations just because of 22 

### the features of the product and the

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 104 1 

### performance of the product, so it by 2 

### definition added a whole new group of entities 3 

### to the regulated community, a huge expansion. 4 

### The FWIC, looking at this, thought 5 

### let's go back to the statutory definition in 6 

### the act. You know, this was a feature that 7 

### came about again between discussions of the 8 

### various industry parties and the folks who 9 

### were sponsoring this. 10 

### And our real purpose in the 11 

### legislation itself and in the laminated 12 

### products exemption was to equalize the 13 

### provisions to nationalize, if you will, the 14 

### California provisions. 15 

### When Senators Crapo and Klobuchar, 16 

### and Representatives Matsui and Burgess put 17 

### this legislation in, if you go back to their 18 

### introductory statements they all reference the 19 

### absolute need to unify the regulation of 20 

### formaldehyde between California and on a 21 

### national level and to expand it so it would 22 

### cover all of the products that are used

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 105 1 

### nationally. 2 

### So FWIC initially looked at this 3 

### and said look, we think we ought to adopt 4 

### something like the statutory definition. But 5 

### we all know that the statute had one of the 6 

### most unusual provisions for statutory 7 

### definition that I've seen in my years 8 

### practicing law in this town. 9 

### It said, well, here's the 10 

### definition, but we're going to grant EPA the 11 

### authority to change it if they think it's 12 

### necessary. Why did that happen? During the 13 

### deliberation on the bill we had wide 14 

### acceptance of the statutory definition, and 15 

### near the end of the process that consensus was 16 

### not maintained. 17 

### And so rather than take the 18 

### possibility that the bill would be held up on 19 

### the floor by a single senator opposing it, 20 

### putting a hold on the bill, the sponsor said 21 

### look, we're going to put the agreed upon 22 

### definition in and we're going to put this

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 106 1 

### unusual provision into the legislation that 2 

### allows EPA to change it. So those who are 3 

### unhappy with that decision can make their 4 

### arguments to EPA and see how it comes out. 5 

### And that's where we are today. So 6 

### again, FWIC supported the statutory approach. 7 

### It eliminated the idea of only having NAF as 8 

### the adhesive in laminates, and we thought it 9 

### was an acceptable approach. 10 

### CARB now came up with an approach 11 

### that said, okay, put an emission limitation on 12 

### there as well. Put the 0.13 ppm on as a 13 

### requirement in order to get the exemption. 14 

### And the industries looked at this and said, 15 

### could be a restriction, but we think this is 16 

### a reasonable, commendable approach to this 17 

### problem that we've been wrestling with for 18 

### four or five years. 19 

### So the FWIC group is here today to 20 

### say that we do support the CARB approach. We 21 

### think it's a creative way of resolving this 22 

### issue, and we would ask that EPA consider this

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 107 1 

### for implementation in the federal regulation. 2 

### I'd like to talk just a little bit 3 

### about legal authority to do that. There's 4 

### been some questions about that. My friend Mr. 5 

### Howlett said that there's only one species or 6 

### one number for hardwood plywood. I would take 7 

### exception with him. 8 

### The laminated product category has 9 

### always been an exemption from hardwood 10 

### plywood. In other words it's a subset. And 11 

### we think it's totally within the discretion of 12 

### EPA to define that subset in a variety of 13 

### different ways, including an emission 14 

### limitation, and including those sectors of the 15 

### industries that are affected. 16 

### So we think it's perfectly 17 

### consistent. There's also been some suggestion 18 

### that this can't be consistent with the 19 

### legislation because the number 0.13 is higher 20 

### than the numbers, for instance, of 0.05 that's 21 

### there for hardwood plywood. But I think the 22 

### single fact that belies that most clearly is

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 108 1 

### the fact that the statutory definition had no 2 

### emission limitation. None whatsoever. 3 

### So the CARB approach is actually a 4 

### step in between, and again I think completely 5 

### consistent with the legislation. You know, 6 

### when we started this journey back in 2009 or 7 

### 2010 with Mr. Neltner and others, again the 8 

### real role was coordination of the two 9 

### regulatory regimes. 10 

### It's still the same goal today and 11 

### we're pleased that both the regulatory bodies 12 

### have accepted this principle, and now it's a 13 

### question of how do we get there on this 14 

### particular one and a few others which we've 15 

### commented on. 16 

### But I look back over this whole 17 

### history and it's one of the most interesting 18 

### that I've been involved in in my years in 19 

### Washington. When you go into a congressional 20 

### office to try to solve a problem and you say 21 

### I'm here for the wood products industry and 22 

### I'm espousing the position of the Natural

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 109 1 

### Resources Defense Council, United Steel 2 

### Workers, the pediatricians, and Healthy Homes, 3 

### I think I've never had so many strange 4 

### reactions in my life from congressional 5 

### staffers and members. 6 

### But the point, I think, is 7 

### important because this is one of the real 8 

### success stories of industry, the public 9 

### interest community, the labor unions, the 10 

### health industry, coming together for a 11 

### reasonable solution to a situation with 12 

### products. 13 

### And again I would urge both CARB 14 

### and EPA to adopt the CARB proposal. I think 15 

### it's reasonable and it's consistent with 16 

### statute and it will promote the underlying 17 

### features of the statute. Thank you. 18 

### MR. COURTNAGE: So we're at the 19 

### end of our list of the folks who have signed 20 

### up to speak. If there's any others, we have 21 

### some time, would like to come up and speak for 22 

### a few minutes, otherwise we can have a Q&A

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 110 1 session for either EPA or for those who have 2 spoken today. 3 You could just come up to the mic 4 and ask your question. Also for folks on the 5 phone or online as well, if you're online you 6 can type your question into the Q&A pod. 7 MR. BAKER: Thanks, Robert. Lynn 8 Baker with the Air Resources Board. I wasn't 9 going to come up. I figured there would be 10 other commenters that I would give them the 11 time. 12 But since no one came, I just 13 wanted to make one little comment with regard 14 to something that Cindy Squires mentioned 15 about the lumber core, special core, and two16 ply, which does add to what we're currently 17 regulating and certainly would add to what 18 EPA's regulating. 19 And Cindy, just for your 20 background for this, the background for 21 others, ARB's regulation has a definition of 22 hardwood plywood which includes everything

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 111 1 

### under the sun. Two-ply, lumber core, special 2 

### core, combination core, composite core, and 3 

### veneer core. 4 

### But we only have two standards, 5 

### veneer core and composite core, so all those 6 

### other products we have not been regulating. 7 

### We've only been regulating veneer core and 8 

### composite core under our regulation. 9 

### And in fact we've directed all the 10 

### third party certifiers around the world to 11 

### only certify those two types of products, 12 

### veneer or composite core products. The 13 

### federal act defines hardwood plywood in the 14 

### way our regulation defines hardwood plywood as 15 

### including special core and lumber core. 16 

### And so I believe EPA is locked 17 

### into that definition of hardwood plywood which 18 

### is not the way we have been regulating it. 19 

### This definition's consistent with HPVA's HP-1 20 

### ANSI standard for hardwood plywood, so we 21 

### didn't dream this up. It's out of the HP-1. 22 

### But we think EPA, in talking with EPA staff,

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 112 1 

### is locked into that definition of hardwood 2 

### plywood, and hence that's why we, ARB, have 3 

### proposed to expand our regulation to include 4 

### special core and lumber core and two-ply 5 

### products. 6 

### We would not have done that other 7 

### than again our efforts to harmonize with EPA, 8 

### and we feel if we don't do that then we would 9 

### be out of sync with EPA. So anyway I just 10 

### wanted to offer that. 11 

### MS. VENDINELLO: I would like to 12 

### thank everyone for coming and for 13 

### participating on the phone. And I'm Lynn 14 

### Vendinello. I'm one of the managers on this 15 

### rule in OPPT, and I promised to talk about 16 

### next steps. 17 

### We will look forward to 18 

### assimilating everything that was said today as 19 

### well as what's going to be submitted hopefully 20 

### by May 8th. We are very far behind in this 21 

### rulemaking, so staff has an extremely 22 

### ambitious schedule to get it done, probably

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 113 1 

### now not by the end of this fiscal year but 2 

### hopefully by the end of this calendar year. 3 

### Just by virtue of opening up the 4 

### public comment period to hear more from you 5 

### today, we have to forego some of the schedule. 6 

### As you know we have been working to harmonize 7 

### as much as possible with California, but I 8 

### also want everyone to realize the sort of the 9 

### way in which EPA operates and some of the 10 

### themes of our administration including next 11 

### generation compliance, we're a little bit 12 

### different than California. 13 

### So we're trying to write a rule 14 

### that's consistent with the administrators' 15 

### priorities as well, and that's very 16 

### challenging. And I welcomed Tom's comments on 17 

### some ideas in that area. So thanks again and 18 

### we look forward again to getting your comments 19 

### by May 8th. 20 

### (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 21 

### went off the record at 2:56 p.m.) 22

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 114 A $10 56:9 $210 35:22 $35 32:4 $37,500 88:16 90:7 abide 43:14 ability 76:17 80:2 able 15:2 63:4 66:3 87:8 91:10 100:5 abound 43:9 absolute 104:19 absolutely 64:2 67:12 absorb 36:11 ACC 73:15 74:2,19 ACC's 72:17 acceptable 106:9 acceptance 105:14 accepted 42:16 108:12 access 80:1 accidentally 39:22 account 8:6 56:3 76:16 achieve 25:8 26:9 51:13 ,14,18 61:10 93:6 94:12 achieves 22:12 81:21 achieving 25:14,14 act 1:6,12 28:12 46:10 74:12 104:6 111:13 action 31:2 activities 48:3 ,4 actors 42:17 add 59:6 110:16,17 added 21:2 34:18 98:10,13 104:2 addition 6:15 24:7 78:21 83:5 86:18 96:15 additional 17:18 22:12 26:9 33:4 34:3 37:10 60:12 62:2 69:13 74:5 81:21 94:3 address 5:21 40:9 55:18 86:19 addressed 79:11 ,15 addresses 29:1 44:9 addressing 17:5 80:16 adequate 63:17 69:20 adequately 65:6 adhere 20:9 53:16 adhered 58:20 adhesive 38:12 43:8 106:8 Adjournment 3:21 adjusted 18:9 administered 38:20 administration 57:19 83:14 113:10 administrator 1:19 3:3 4:7 administrators 113:14 admire 101:6 admittedly 28:6 adopt 26:12,15 29:21 55:8 58:4 82:7 105:3 109:14 adopted 16:10 adopting 80:21 advance 46:4 advanced 73:4 advancement 76:8 advances 54:15 adversarial 39:7 51:2 advocacy 57:20 advocate 80:14 90:14 aerosol 19:16 affairs 31:13 affect 6:1 9:11 35:13 48:2 affix 22:19 48:14 affixed 18:20 afternoon 31:11 47:7 72:8 73:22 82:12 102:3 age 45:22 46:1 agency 1:3 25:4 30:13 32:14 45:5 69:13 agenda 13:17 ago 40:15 45:18 49:6 agree 41:22 67:9 81:3 98:6 agreed 105:21 ahead 16:3 AHFA 31:14 32:10 34:16,22 36:17 97:16 AHFA's 31:17 98:1 air 2:2 4:22 28:12 28:16 84:10 91:21 110:8 airborne 5:1 16:9 align 5:3 Aligning 88:19 alignment 81:7 alleviate 21:2 alleviating 79:18 Alliance 2:8 17:14 31:10,14 allies 41:3 allow 26:7 29:9,14 75:19 99:16 allowing 101:2 allows 71:14 106:2 alternative 36:19 alters 35:7 ambient 28:16 ambitious 112:22 amend 33:12 amending 18:3 amendment 18:1 ,2 18:14 20:3 21:8 22:11 ,22 amendments 16:21 21:4 42:5 43:1 44:17 80:6,8 America 1:1 38:6 38:21 47:10,13,18 49:8 American 2:6,7 17:13 31:9,13,22 42:9 44:22 46:6 47:21 55:11 72:6 72:9 amount 66:11 amounts 24:22 analysis 78:21 79:6 and/or 12:21 61:14 announcement 58:9 announcing 6:11 annual 100:6 annually 100:9 ANSI 111:20 ANSI/HPVA 27:17 answer 15:1 anyway 112:9 apparent 58:8 59:11 appear 91:18 appearing 102:6 applaud 54:11 80:4 92:5,17 applicability 23:2 84:2,13 85:1 ,9 applicable 9:12,19 application 37:7 76:14 applications 76:22 applies 43:6 apply 9:10 appreciably 44:3 appreciate 4:5 7:1 13:10,11 15:12 39:7 55:17 58:11 61:11 71:21 81:10 84:4 90:9 103:2 appreciative 41:4 approach 16:22 18:2 21:17 22:14 30:17 31:3 33:9 36:19,22 37:11 39:3 45:17 51:2,4 54:20 55:9 58:5 64:12 68:2,5,6 75:6,11 ,18 76:7 77:5 78:10 79:4,9 79:21 80:11 81:17 81:19 82:7 94:5 94:10 106:6,9,10 106:16,20 108:3 approached 17:19 51:10 approaches 23:22 80:16 appropriate 8:5 11:6,11 ,14 12:14 23:13 36:19 appropriately 94:16 approved 43:9 approximately 32:2 56:4 APRIL 1:9 Arauco 47:16,17 ARB 39:20 40:11 112:2 ARB's 20:15 110:21 area 54:13 113:17 areas 70:1 Argentina 47:19 arguments 106:4 array 76:9 artfully 79:10 asking 95:10 aspect 33:6 assembled 36:13 assessed 88:15 assessing 78:1 assimilating 112:18 assistant 1:19 4:7 associated 12:22 34:1 associates 83:6 association 2:2,4,4 2:9,10 27:4 31:15 37:22 38:3 ,3 55:10,11 ,15 56:1 61:15,18 82:10,14 82:21 associations 40:6

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 115 Asst 3:3 assurance 39:2 assure 4:13 78:11 ASTM 78:2 ATCM 33:10 72:22 73:9 74:15 attached 103:20 attaining 25:20 60:19 attention 26:19 27:6 59:1 attorney 58:2 audience 49:18 55:21 64:6 authority 28:13 33:12 37:5 88:6 105:11 107:3 available 36:4 43:10 76:19 79:1 81:19 Avenue 1:13 avoid 84:11 avoided 81:15 aware 71:6 B back 4:17 18:11 20:18 52:17 87:11 104:5,17 108:6,16 background 15:18 110:20,20 backing 71:14 bad 42:17 Baker 2:2 15:6,8 57:12 110:7,8 balanced 55:3 based 15:4 22:17 26:6 28:12 39:2 60:2 68:18 70:7 73:10 75:11 ,14,18 76:6 77:7,12,16 78:4,9 81:21 82:20 basically 27:12 basis 21:7,11 30:12 30:18 77:4 bath 56:2 bathroom 90:1 bear 50:1 becoming 59:10 beg 16:12 behalf 72:10 73:21 95:21 belies 107:22 believe 9:19 22:3 24:3 33:15 68:4 75:2 79:10 81:6 81:16 93:13 111:16 belt 49:9 beneath 56:10 benefit 33:20 35:15 35:20 36:14 benefits 22:10,10 26:10 78:20,21 79:6 92:22 93:14 best 9:17 19:7 20:6 41:15 45:21 76:14 79:1 94:2 97:4 100:1 102:18 better 26:7 43:17 46:18 beware 30:1 beyond 22:13 33:3 45:19 81:22 bias 60:4 bidding 103:4 big 21:19 53:5 66:17 biggest 7:20 bill 2:7 31:9,12 37:20 40:17 41:1 95:12 105:13 ,18 105:20 billion 32:4 53:18 bind 52:6 binding 29:4 bit 52:5 62:5 63:12 94:14 101:17 103:4 107:2 113:11 biweekly 64:16 board 2:2 11:13 17:4 27:10 30:6 38:5 48:5 50:3 53:20,20 75:19 89:9,13,15,17 110:8 Board's 4:22 84:10 91:21 bodies 108:11 bottom 78:6 100:21 bounds 42:15 Branch 1:17 3:8,17 Brazil 47:19 break 7:7,10 bridge 93:10 95:10 briefly 6:13 bring 20:18 40:10 54:17 62:13 102:14 broad 48:19 59:14 69:17 103:9,13 broader 18:2 Brock 2:5 102:1 ,4 Brock's 73:20 brought 7:22 31:2 58:22 63:14 brunt 23:20 builder 85:16 86:2 builders 2:3 82:11 82:14 83:8,18 85:10 bundles 23:10 burden 35:22 54:6 84:3 85:4 87:20 88:11 ,21 89:20 96:22 burdens 23:1 83:21 burdensome 28:6 33:6 65:6,8 87:18 Burgess 104:16 business 49:6 54:2 57:19,21 79:11 80:3 83:13 businesses 23:1 24:9 45:10 56:19 67:3 ,17 85:5 buy 53:20 89:9 90:3 buyer 98:21 buying 89:18 buys 53:19 C C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 3:1 cabinet 2:10 23:5 30:8 48:10 55:15 56:16 85:18 86:10 87:6,10,11 89:22 102:12 cabinetry 86:6 cabinets 56:2 86:3 87:7,7 93:5 calendar 113:2 California 2:2 4:22 5:10 8:2 9:3,13 10:1 15:15 19:10 32:19 40:3 43:6 84:10 88:4 91:21 104:14,20 113:7 113:12 California's 5:7 6:5 8:13 9:2 12:6 16:11 call 56:12 called 40:2 47:16 Cambodia 53:11 cap 59:3 capability 77:15 capable 76:3 97:10 100:14 capacity 22:5 29:2 67:17 CARB 6:14 15:7 29:20 31:3 33:10 34:5 36:18 39:1 ,4 39:13 ,20 41:17 42:5,20,22 43:1 ,9 43:14,19 44:2,14 44:16 45:5,19 46:22 50:17 54:21 55:10,20 56:21 57:2 58:3 60:20 61:3 62:4,17 63:10 64:10,14 68:4,6 71:6 72:2 73:9 74:15,21 75:21 76:7 77:13 78:7 79:9,10 80:11 ,15,21 81:7 81:11 ,18 82:6 86:21 ,22 92:22 94:15 97:14 98:21 99:4,13,19 101:7 101:11 102:20 103:7,8 106:10,20 108:3 109:13 ,14 CARB's 5:1 ,22 6:7 6:9 28:12 72:22 74:16 75:6,10,13 75:14,22 77:10,17 79:3 ,15 80:5 81:16 82:7 84:15 85:2 88:1 ,20 90:18 91:4 94:1 ,3 94:5,10 CARB-compliant 92:9 CARB-sponsored 74:19 care 46:8 carefully 64:10 Carolina 49:10 case 21:16 52:15 58:16 90:17 cases 11:16 catching 16:8 categories 77:11 category 94:7 107:8 cause 30:13 44:5 64:3 CBI 79:10,12,14 80:13 ceiling 22:12 81:21 Center 38:18 central 103:18 certain 5:7,13 76:21 ,22 86:19 99:12 certainly 13:10 48:2 54:11 63:17 73:17 79:5 80:20

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 116 81:9,12 110:17 certification 9:14 10:16 11:3 12:15 12:18 19:6 21:20 21:22 22:9 24:1 ,6 24:8 32:18 33:2 34:1 ,3 35:5,9,13 36:11 38:18,19 39:2 43:10 45:13 60:20 71:2 78:8 84:16,21 93:13 95:11 ,17 96:8,11 99:8 100:10 101:17 certified 23:14,18 34:13 ,20 35:2 37:8 82:3 89:10 99:17 certifier 22:4 certifiers 111:10 certify 111:11 certifying 96:2,12 chain 31:20 33:19 71:4,8 76:11 87:14 97:16 100:16,18 chains 71:13 Chair 1:14,19 3:7 chairman 48:16 82:18 challenge 71:7 challenges 81:4 95:14 challenging 113:16 chamber 100:7 change 20:21 25:10 35:15 105:11 106:2 changed 74:18 changes 5:10 8:14 13:1 ,2 32:7,17 46:21 63:2 69:2 chapter 91:13 characteristics 34:12,19 characterized 39:9 charade 31:5 check 20:16 60:21 98:5 100:16 checking 97:18 98:17 Chemical 1:20 3:3 4:8 Chemicals 1:17 3:9 3:18 7:12 chemistry 2:6 72:6 72:9 73:5 cherry-pick 97:12 Chief 1:17 3:16 Chile 47:18 Chilean 47:16 chilling 67:18 69:9 China 53:11 92:20 choices 43:14 101:3 choose 76:13 choosing 76:17 Cindy 1:13 ,18 2:9 3:6 7:11 13:19 18:13 61:14,17 81:9 91:11 110:14 110:19 Cities 45:20 claim 30:10 clarify 87:2 89:4 clarifying 15:1 classes 63:19 66:21 67:5 clean 18:3 28:12 clear 65:2 74:13 77:11 81:9 86:12 clearly 34:17 97:1 107:22 climatic 52:2 close 14:12 82:6 90:10 closed 49:22 50:6 closely 58:8 72:2 closer 15:13 20:14 79:6 closes 91:13 closet 89:9,12 closing 14:19 26:11 coalition 36:17 40:3 ,5,22 44:13 62:11 73:17,19,22 102:2,7 coast 15:10 coating 18:18 38:10 92:14 coatings 21:3 ,3 44:9 code 16:11 90:5 collaborative 39:9 51:7 colleague 40:13 colleagues 41:5 72:12 Collectively 83:2 combination 12:5 27:15 111:2 combined 83:18 come 39:22 40:8 55:17 57:14 74:20 98:2 109:21 110:3 110:9 comes 106:4 coming 4:4 7:1 71:18 109:10 112:12 commend 102:20 commendable 106:16 comment 5:15,19 5:20,21 8:10,12 10:5 12:4 14:21 15:19 32:13 64:9 71:22 72:13 94:3 110:13 113:4 commented 48:21 74:2 108:15 commenter 10:11 11:7,12,14 commenters 10:6 10:20 110:10 comments 6:2,6,15 6:17,19 8:11 ,18 8:20 10:3 ,13 11:2 12:12 13:8 15:20 49:1 58:7 60:7,8 61:9 74:7 75:9 77:3 78:19 79:2 84:1 ,5 91:2,8,10 98:1 101:15 113:16,18 commerce 23:8 76:11 commercial 83:10 commitment 29:5 101:13 committed 17:1 common 40:9 communication 79:14 communities 50:9 community 46:7,8 50:13 51:3 75:4 85:5 91:7 104:3 109:9 companies 10:17 31:18 32:1 43:12 45:7 48:12 55:4,5 97:2 99:18 company 24:19 25:17,17 47:16 50:20 52:8 71:1 88:22 company's 30:10 comparison 35:3 compel 88:6 compelling 88:9 competitiveness 65:18 complete 46:4 completely 37:1 108:4 completes 42:4,5 complex 63:3 71:4 71:8,13 compliance 19:8 20:16,19 28:1 ,4,8 28:19 29:3,6 30:10 35:7,18 36:1 41:16 43:15 45:6 51:17 66:14 70:4 71:9 73:9 74:14 78:11 95:16 113:11 compliant 16:15,16 16:18 18:20 19:3 20:7,22 29:21 30:5,15,18 34:6 37:8 44:3 60:20 96:12 97:11 complicated 14:4 64:7 66:2 complied 96:3 compliment 57:1 57:11 comply 23:6 24:13 24:14 63:4,7 70:11 76:18 77:16 85:20 88:14 component 23:4 34:10 35:9,12 36:7 composite 1:6,12 2:4 4:11 ,14 34:8 34:20 35:2 37:9 37:21 38:2 42:11 43:3 ,7 47:10,22 60:3 ,19 73:8 74:11 76:3 77:21 83:15 91:19,22 94:8 103:12 111:2 111:5,8,12 compound 19:12 comprise 31:20 compromise 74:22 81:17 concept 95:2,3 concern 40:9 59:7 79:7 89:21 concerned 7:3 68:13 concerns 57:8 58:10 59:4 68:11 79:16 82:15 84:1 92:6 conclusion 101:19 conditions 51:22 52:2 78:2 conduct 24:5 conducted 17:11 25:6 confidence 42:12

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 117 99:13 confident 20:10 confidential 79:11 80:3 configured 52:12 confusion 21:2 64:3 85:3 86:18 Congress 4:17 30:19 33:10 37:14 40:18 41:2,7 43:18 44:12 74:10 74:12 92:22 congressional 33:1 81:8 108:19 109:4 consensus 27:18 61:11 105:15 consider 6:18 10:14 22:1 41:17 57:8 78:18 79:7 80:20 80:21 106:22 consideration 49:2 56:21 61:7 considered 54:22 85:18 86:5 99:2 considering 9:7 12:2,5,10 32:11 58:3 74:22 consist 18:19 consistency 81:1 consistent 28:14,21 29:14,22 65:9 75:12 81:7 107:17 107:18 108:5 109:15 111:19 113:14 consistently 25:13 93:6 99:13 constitutes 86:16 Constitution 1:13 construct 82:22 83:3 constructing 27:12 constructive 39:10 46:5 50:17 consumed 49:7,12 49:14 consumer 19:9,13 19:16,17,19 29:15 31:22 35:20 42:9 42:12 consumers 29:22 31:5 46:6 65:16 contained 4:19 contemplated 40:17 41:12 44:12 context 9:22 49:3 continue 68:10 77:12 78:18 81:13 continued 37:18 continues 50:21 82:5 90:14 continuing 91:4 contract 79:22 contractor 85:17 contradicting 85:12 control 5:1 16:9 19:5 52:6 controls 77:21 controversial 100:20 convince 99:20 cooperative 39:10 cooperatively 50:14 coordinate 81:11 coordination 81:13 108:8 core 16:18 27:9,14 30:5 34:13 37:9 68:21 ,22 69:6 96:3 ,13 103:12,15 110:15,15 111:1 ,2 111:2,2,3,5,5,7,8 111:12,15,15 112:4,4 cores 13:4 16:15 27:13 ,15,15 30:5 30:19 34:6 63:13 correct 98:9,14 corresponding 33:20 cost 28:5 33:19 36:1 54:4 65:13 66:6 78:20 90:11 93:20 costly 24:8 33:6 35:10 costs 28:19 33:22 35:16 36:12 93:15 Council 2:5,6,7 72:6 82:19 90:22 109:1 Council's 72:10 counsel 102:6 country 49:15 53:5 71:17,18 course 17:10 21:19 48:13 72:19 73:18 74:18 court 8:18 COURTNAGE 13:18 26:20 31:8 37:20 47:5 55:13 61:13 72:4 82:9 90:20 101:22 109:18 cover 13:4 104:22 covered 8:1 ,4 83:16 covers 5:6 CPA 38:3 39:3 46:13 ,21 48:16,17 55:10 CPA's 39:3 craft 93:17 Crapo 104:15 create 99:10 100:1 created 32:19 creating 94:7 creative 99:18 106:21 creativity 93:17 credibility 54:14 credible 40:10 credit 11:21 64:12 Criner 2:2 82:10 82:12,16 critical 62:21 64:2 76:15 78:16 current 5:8 16:22 22:13 73:9 74:21 75:21 81:22 currently 4:21 8:1 19:1 36:20 84:15 110:16 custom 10:15 56:11 56:12 customer 86:4 89:11 customer's 89:18 customers 38:13 50:6 52:20 54:5 72:22 87:13 97:4 cut 20:13 57:14 89:13 ,15 cutoff 24:10 cuts 87:11 CWIC 46:21 D D.C 82:20 data 17:9,17 28:7 33:16 36:4 58:18 77:10 80:1 date 15:5 43:21 day 51:19 88:16 100:13 DC 1:13 de 43:5 50:18 66:6 66:15 deadline 91:11 dealing 7:21 17:8 53:1 decades 38:22 72:19 decides 42:3 decision 74:16 106:3 deconstructed 34:22 deconstructive 68:14 94:21 ,22 95:7 100:19 decrease 88:21 deeply 39:3 54:22 defend 35:17 Defense 2:6 90:22 109:1 define 107:12 defined 27:17 33:10 83:13 defines 111:13 ,14 definitely 62:17 68:7 definition 10:8 13:2,5 33:13 ,14 37:6 69:17 74:4 83:12 86:13 103:10 104:2,5 105:4,7,10,14,22 108:1 110:21 111:17 112:1 definition's 111:19 definitional 13:1 35:15 definitions 21:3 69:7 definitive 34:17 deliberation 105:13 deliberative 64:12 delivering 76:3 demonstrate 34:17 78:9 demonstrated 35:1 demonstrating 36:4 density 75:17 deodorants 19:17 departure 33:9 deputy 1:19 3:3 4:6 derive 62:2 described 87:17 design 39:22 40:1 82:22 Despite 28:18 detail 9:6 determine 9:17 19:7 20:6 develop 50:17 developed 16:9 17:1 developing 6:21 72:20 76:1 development 73:2

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### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 119 equipment 35:10 52:10 equity 29:11 equivalent 74:14 especially 6:6 24:16 43:18 64:13 65:14 97:3 espousing 108:22 essence 99:8 essentially 92:13 establish 18:15 40:18 established 4:17 27:22 32:17 establishes 22:11 27:20 81:20 establishing 9:7 92:2 estimate 32:7 estimated 35:22 evaluate 36:3 evaluated 34:11 everybody 4:3 21:5 evidence 28:7 35:16 51:14 92:20 eviscerates 30:17 exacerbated 85:11 exactly 31:2 43:20 43:20 69:12 70:7 example 85:14 87:4 87:9 exceed 22:21 73:6 75:20 77:13 78:20 exceeded 74:9 exceeding 19:22 exception 103:15 107:7 exclude 37:5 74:3 excluding 10:14 executive 61:17 exempt 5:8 10:7 16:13 33:13 98:14 exempting 87:18 exemption 12:8,8 33:17 58:14 66:7 66:8,10 87:16 103:9 104:12 106:13 107:9 exemptions 80:7 exercise 37:4 existence 45:14 existing 76:1 80:7 83:1 86:19 expand 42:10 45:15 47:1 104:21 112:3 expanded 67:5 expanding 13:3 63:10 expansion 44:2 66:20 67:1 ,10,12 67:19 69:22 104:3 expensive 51:15,16 51:17 53:15 67:21 experience 38:15 75:19 78:7 explain 64:6 explaining 86:15 explains 85:15 explanation 86:14 explicit 87:15 explored 101:3 exponentially 45:15 export 66:4 exporting 65:21 exposed 29:16 exposure 31:6 express 79:18 84:1 expressly 33:12 extending 5:15 74:8 extension 33:2 extensive 31:20 99:5 extensively 77:2 78:19 extent 5:4 53:14 102:16 extreme 27:5 52:15 extremely 51:21 103:12 112:21 F fabricated 30:7 fabricator 9:16 16:16 20:5 23:3 ,9 23:16 25:13 27:11 29:5 30:14 84:17 85:13 ,19 86:11 87:5 fabricator's 84:18 fabricators 9:13 19:6 22:6 24:2 28:2,5 30:18,20 33:5,21 34:4,7 35:8 36:10 84:9 84:13 ,22 85:1 ,9 87:21 face 23:5 33:22 faced 52:1 faces 15:13 facilitators 61:22 facilities 24:5 31:19 47:14 facility 99:5 fact 8:13 25:2 34:22 40:6 65:4 66:22 75:22 94:16 107:22 108:1 111:9 facto 43:5 50:18 factors 76:15 failed 88:9 fails 36:22 fair 50:14 55:2 fairer 46:18 fairly 43:21 fall 7:9 familiar 15:13 75:8 family 83:1 far 16:5 69:7 93:11 94:11 112:20 far-fetched 40:21 feasible 24:3 51:13 feature 103:18 104:6 features 75:5 103:22 109:17 federal 2:5 6:10 36:16 40:5 73:16 78:3 83:12 102:1 102:6 107:1 111:13 federalizing 51:11 FedEx 100:8 feel 112:8 feet 10:18 24:11 ,20 53:18 59:12 felt 51:4 65:15,17 67:14 FEMA 91:15 fewer 56:13 fiberboard 75:17 Fibers 1:17 3:17 field 20:17 52:16 69:16 figure 69:11 figured 110:9 fin-MDF 48:5 final 6:21 26:11 36:14 43:19 59:20 96:2,9 finalized 32:6 finalizes 91:12 finally 26:8 find 19:22 23:8 52:16 59:3 70:9 94:2 95:19 finding 101:13 fine 99:22 finish 9:5 48:6 finished 11:19 12:1 23:5,16 34:11 35:3 36:5,7,10,13 37:3 41:13 44:10 53:19,21 86:2 87:1 ,6 finishes 21:3 finishing 34:13 ,18 firm 98:19 first 14:4 15:6 40:2 48:22 49:5 51:10 62:15 63:20 75:10 103:7 fiscal 113:1 five 89:15 106:18 fixed 53:22 fixture 48:11 Flakeboard 2:8 47:6,9 54:20 flat 51:18 flexibility 26:7 76:12 floor 14:4 105:19 flooring 102:12 focus 46:19 54:18 focused 79:3 foils 48:8 folks 17:7 22:3 55:21 80:18 104:8 109:19 110:4 follow 53:15 99:20 followed 43:19 following 6:13 foolishness 46:1 footprint 47:17 forcing 35:8 forego 113:5 foregoing 113:20 foreign 61:20 70:21 71:1 forget 65:20 formaldehyde 1:5 1:12,18 3:6 4:10 4:16 9:8 17:19 18:15 32:18 34:15 40:19 46:12 60:2 64:22 72:10,17 73:3 ,15 74:11 ,20 77:7 91:17 92:7 92:16 93:7 98:10 98:13 ,15 104:20 formulated 40:2 formulation 25:11 80:6 forth 15:21 forward 13:22 37:18 40:10 62:7 62:13 65:5 66:4,8 68:4,9,12 69:21 72:1 73:20 79:7 81:14 112:17 113:18 found 17:20 51:20 52:6 59:20

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 120 four 60:16 106:18 framework 28:1 ,4 28:14,22 78:5 frequency 10:21 friend 107:4 front 7:6 15:14 fruitful 59:18 fully 73:18 75:12 functions 87:16 fundamentally 32:17 funded 38:16 furnishings 2:7 17:13 31:10,13,16 31:21 32:8,20 55:11 furniture 17:14 30:8 31:19 35:17 35:21 45:1 48:10 49:7,9,12,14,16 49:21 53:4,10 93:4 98:2 102:12 further 34:9,11 ,19 36:15 45:2 58:11 61:5 84:5 85:11 87:21 Furthermore 83:11 future 72:2 FWIC 36:17 46:14 46:21 57:22 61:10 62:11 73:17 104:4 105:2 106:6,19 G gain 27:5 44:20 gained 36:15 gassing 93:8 general 59:9 generation 113:11 getting 8:19 14:12 40:17 54:18 70:4 91:3 93:2,4 113:18 give 14:18 64:12 102:16 110:10 given 75:1 90:9 gives 99:12 giving 56:22 101:3 101:18 glad 89:7 global 24:4 31:20 43:5 48:3 ,4 50:18 62:19 63:5 64:6 65:19 globally 35:8 53:14 glue 20:9 92:15 98:10 glued 92:8 glues 98:3 go 8:15 9:5 13:17 13:21 14:4,6 16:2 16:3 ,4,6 20:17 27:5,6 68:3 80:10 89:8 101:5 104:5 104:17 108:19 goal 6:4 93:5 108:10 goes 45:18 53:13 69:21 going 7:6 8:22 9:3,5 10:2 13:22 14:21 15:2 18:11 20:11 48:1 53:5 64:7 65:9,17 66:3 69:15 70:11 ,14,19 71:3 ,7,16 79:6 81:13 90:5 91:8,9 95:5 99:6 105:10 105:21 ,22 110:9 112:19 good 23:6,16 25:18 26:2 31:11 38:12 42:8,8,9,19 47:7 67:21 72:7 82:12 102:3 goods 11:19 36:7 36:10 65:19,19,21 87:1 Gordian 57:14 GOVERNMENT 1:1 Grademark 38:18 grant 105:10 great 15:8 54:10 64:12 greater 82:3 ground 95:20,20 group 40:2 47:21 62:13 102:9 104:2 106:19 grouped 12:21 groups 40:7 H hairsprays 19:17 hand 25:3 88:4 handful 40:15 handle 54:6 happen 7:9 105:12 happens 11:22 62:16 happy 62:10 hard 41:2,3,3 69:15 hardboard 38:5 hardship 44:5 hardwood 2:3 10:8 10:10 11:8,10 13:5 21:18 23:12 27:3 ,8,12,18,21 28:2 29:6,9 30:3 33:14 37:6 74:5 94:9 103:9,13 107:6,9,21 110:22 111:13 ,14,17,20 112:1 harmonization 65:2 harmonize 6:5 57:3 112:7 113:6 harmonized 68:5 84:9 90:18 HDF 48:5 health 8:7 35:15,19 42:8 46:8 65:1 ,7 91:14 93:11 ,14 109:10 Healthy 109:2 hear 5:9 7:3 13:13 26:18 58:1 91:9 113:4 heard 18:8 46:2 48:18 55:1 80:17 101:15 hearing 68:13 91:3 Heavy 3:7 held 10:9 12:20 105:18 Hello 13:18 help 20:18 21:5 89:7 helped 95:13 helpful 49:4 62:13 heyday 50:5 high 17:22 53:8 59:16 91:17 92:1 higher 31:5 53:9 107:19 highest 21:8 29:18 31:1 75:15 highlight 75:5 79:8 highlighted 81:18 highly 46:5 history 108:17 hit 95:20 hold 14:13 105:20 home 2:2,7 15:14 17:13 31:9,13,16 31:21 32:8,20 55:11 82:11 ,14 83:3 ,18 85:10,15 86:2,4,4 homes 83:1 ,2 109:2 honest 92:10 honor 102:5 hope 39:8 58:19 81:12 82:5 hopefully 40:10 91:13 112:19 113:2 horrible 7:8 horrific 56:20 host 29:10 Howlett 2:3 27:2,2 107:5 HP-1 27:17 111:19 111:21 HPVA 41:6 95:21 HPVA's 111:19 huge 104:3 human 8:7 humidity 78:2 Hurricanes 91:15 I idea 24:9 51:10 97:8 106:7 ideas 12:10 113:17 identical 4:20 identified 13:5 29:19 identity 28:10 ignores 35:16 ignoring 36:3 illusory 44:19,21 45:4,12 immediately 6:13 65:15 impact 35:12 56:18 62:18 63:21 67:2 70:20,22 78:14,16 impacted 32:9 implement 46:11 implementable 75:3 implementation 63:18 107:1 implemented 43:20 implementing 42:20 44:14 implications 81:5 importance 54:18 80:19 important 12:18 13:13 41:9 59:22 65:4,12 66:16 67:6 68:21 70:20 75:7 78:15 97:13 97:20 109:7 importantly 29:11 85:7 92:2 imported 4:15 91:20 importer 62:14 71:2 importers 61:19

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### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 122 Landry 2:5 102:1 ,3 102:4 large 7:16 52:8 largely 91:18 larger 56:9 largest 31:14 38:19 47:12,21 latest 12:6 36:18 law 105:8 layer 92:8,11 lead 3:7 57:20 88:15 leadership 48:17 learn 32:10 leave 53:5 leaving 86:17 led 73:1 left 14:5,7,14 legal 28:14 81:5 107:3 legally 29:4 31:3 legislation 33:2 104:11 ,17 106:1 107:19 108:5 legislative 36:2 let's 43:1 104:5 letter 41:16 level 22:21 25:8,14 29:9,10,16,18 35:9,12 59:12,19 68:17 81:13 89:2 104:21 levels 30:22 43:7 51:15 73:7 76:4 91:17 life 109:4 light 83:10 limit 19:19 20:1 22:14 30:9 99:22 limitation 106:11 107:14 108:2 limitations 23:21 77:2 limited 11:3 14:22 24:22 84:12,19,22 85:8 103:17 limits 75:13 76:18 78:12 line 78:6 100:21 lines 13:8 list 109:19 listened 58:19 literally 56:20 little 7:9 14:13 20:14 25:2,15 33:19 52:5 58:2 62:5 94:14 101:17 103:4 107:2 110:13 113:11 lives 53:9 91:16 living 91:15 local 56:14 locate 52:13 locked 111:16 112:1 logistics 13:16,21 long 55:19 86:5 95:5 look 17:2 25:4 37:18 63:5 66:4,6 66:10 68:7 71:3 72:1 73:20 79:6 101:16 105:3 ,21 108:16 112:17 113:18 looked 105:2 106:14 looking 8:13 58:6 64:10 104:4 loss 44:22 lost 52:5 lot 5:16 8:1 9:6 17:6,16 26:17 38:14,15 40:20,21 65:22 71:3 lots 79:16 Louise 1:19 3:3 4:6 7:19 13:12 low 12:8 20:8,9 43:8 59:17 Lowe's 89:11 90:3 lowest 29:16 90:4 lumber 27:14 68:21 110:15 111:1 ,15 112:4 Lynn 1:17 2:2 3:16 14:18 15:6 26:20 57:12 103:11 110:7 112:13 M maintain 29:6 maintained 105:16 maintaining 10:22 37:14 maintains 75:10 major 38:8,13 40:7 43:13 44:2 56:1 62:12 69:18 86:6 86:9,12,16 89:5 89:13 ,16 majority 49:21 making 8:13 9:19 16:17 23:7,16 25:19 58:17 71:11 87:3 99:18 manage 45:6,15 managed 38:17 managers 112:14 mandate 36:2 79:19 mandated 78:3 ,12 mandates 65:5 manner 93:21 manufacture 28:2 manufactured 30:11 manufacturer 27:11 28:10 29:5 34:7 47:10 99:11 manufacturers 2:10 17:14 38:10 42:10 48:11 ,11 55:15 56:2,17 61:21 69:2 75:20 76:10 77:11 92:3 92:8 manufacturing 31:19 32:3 ,8 35:14 45:1 49:16 49:20 60:4 76:2 March 94:3 market 24:17 56:4 78:13 marketplace 44:4 65:20 76:13 markets 42:10 66:4 mass 23:17 massive 44:5 match 61:1 material 21:4,15 materials 48:8 97:12 Matsui 104:16 matter 42:2 62:16 96:18 113:20 matters 39:6 42:12 maximum 102:16 MDF 21:9,16 27:10 30:6 38:5 48:5 mean 35:1 64:2 means 29:15 31:6 71:2 86:8,12 92:2 95:16 97:17 101:1 measure 5:1 16:9 mechanism 28:1 medium 75:17 meet 4:16 5:13 9:18 19:20,21 51:22 60:5 72:21 73:6 75:20 77:13 78:22 83:12 92:3 99:14 100:13 meeting 1:6,12 6:11 6:16,19 13:22 15:13 32:15 37:17 57:13 78:13 100:14 meetings 64:16 meets 47:3 96:5,13 melamine 48:8 member 31:17 32:1 36:16 73:16 members 56:3 ,8,9 56:10 72:11 75:7 82:22 83:2,6,12 83:14,21 84:4 97:16 109:5 membership 56:16 72:18 83:8 men's 14:8 mentioned 13:19 18:13 26:6 63:22 89:3 102:8 103:11 110:14 merits 68:6 met 1:12 Metals 3:7 method 78:3 methodology 77:22 mic 110:3 microphone 7:8 middle 95:10,19,20 million 21:11 27:22 29:17,19 30:2,6,7 30:9,16 32:7 36:1 56:9 mills 50:7,8 mind 39:17 99:3 minds 12:3 mine 89:11 minimal 98:16 minimis 66:6,15 minimize 62:18 66:6 minimized 67:4 minimizes 22:22 minimizing 63:21 78:13 minimum 24:10 28:19 34:21 96:7 minor 64:2 minority 27:16 minute 14:13 52:19 minutes 14:10 109:22 miserable 51:18 misleading 25:3 ,16 26:4 misled 25:17 mistake 90:7 mitigate 42:13 model 32:18 39:1 49:17,19 modification 32:11

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 123 86:9,13,16 89:5 89:13 ,17 modifications 5:22 6:7 86:6 87:3 molding 48:12 102:12 MONDAY 1:8 monitor 45:6 month 18:11 24:12 months 70:18 morph 44:8 Morrill 2:6 72:5,7 72:8 moved 91:4 moves 66:1 multiple 53:9 N N.W 1:13 NAF 60:7 77:8 98:19 99:1 100:4 103:20 106:7 NAHB 82:18,20 83:2,5,7,12,14,21 83:22 90:11 ,14 name 38:1 47:8 72:8 80:9,9 82:15 narrow 65:3 narrowly 41:10 68:8 nation's 32:5 national 1:17 2:2,6 3:8,18 7:12 27:18 40:19 41:6 42:7 46:12 56:1 82:10 82:14 89:2 104:21 nationalize 104:13 nationalizing 91:20 nationally 105:1 natural 76:5 90:21 108:22 nature 39:6 near 76:4 105:15 necessarily 53:8 necessary 88:8 105:12 necessitating 80:13 necessity 88:10 need 20:11 ,22 21:1 47:1 51:16 63:22 66:9 69:19 70:12 70:18 71:3 ,19 76:16 79:13 ,18 100:4 104:19 needed 13:1 93:17 95:15 needs 42:21 58:22 78:13 94:14 95:9 97:1 ,21 98:22 99:1 100:10,11 ,15 neither 45:5 Neltner 2:6 40:14 90:21 91:1 108:7 never 32:22 41:11 69:3 109:3 new 8:3 18:15 33:18 35:5,10 36:1 63:13 ,19 66:20 67:1 70:1 70:11 ,14 83:3 104:2 non-regulated 103:14 noncompliant 79:16 North 38:5,21 47:10,12 49:8,10 notably 35:6 note 14:20 40:12 56:6 68:21 78:15 noted 11:16 73:12 77:2 78:17 81:6 notice 6:10 notification 79:17 number 17:11 38:12 56:11 ,17 67:3 76:15 80:18 107:6,19 numbers 107:20 numerous 31:18 81:4 O O'Donnell 61:14 O-F 3:1 objectives 41:20 42:1 47:4 64:21 65:4 93:19 obligation 35:7 observe 57:5 obviously 4:9 occurring 67:7 occurs 34:10 71:12 October 74:3 83:22 off-gas 92:15 off-gassing 98:16 offer 12:13 112:10 offered 11:17 36:13 offering 11:15 offerings 72:21 offers 36:8 office 1:20 3:3 4:7 7:13 108:20 offices 15:11 offset 93:14 offshore 45:2 49:13 49:15 oh 26:2 okay 16:5,20 27:1 ,7 31:8 72:7 90:20 96:1 106:11 oldest 47:9 once 6:22 25:14 36:13 39:13 ongoing 60:16 94:1 101:12 online 110:5,5 onus 25:12 open 10:5 14:21 51:6 57:13 86:17 opening 3:2 72:13 113:3 openness 57:7 102:21 opens 29:10 operate 31:18 38:16 42:15 operates 113:9 operating 51:22 operation 92:18 opinion 58:13 89:19 opportunities 17:18 opportunity 5:19 15:9,12 32:13 37:16 46:3 55:17 61:12 72:14 84:5 oppose 67:12 opposing 105:19 OPPT 112:15 option 10:12 11:4 17:7 65:6,8 98:5 98:12 99:2,10 100:1 options 15:3 76:10 98:5 101:2,18 order 70:10,12 106:13 organic 19:12 Organics 1:17 3:17 organization 62:1 organizations 57:18 organized 46:7 original 34:7 55:8 59:9 60:8 originally 59:13 ought 12:20 105:3 outcome 29:21 outdoor 28:16 outreach 71:21 outset 50:22 outside 42:15 overall 27:16 101:6 101:15 overarching 42:1 overreaching 67:14 overseas 91:20 92:3 oversight 10:22 owned 47:16 P P-R-O-C-E-E-D-... 4:1 p.m 1:13 4:2 113:21 package 100:8 paint 48:7 94:18 painted 53:22 panel 2:4 33:3 34:2 37:21 38:2 42:11 43:3 ,7 47:10 54:3 55:4 58:16 60:3 72:10,17 73:15 74:20 76:2,3,10 79:19 102:10 paneling 27:11 panels 23:17 34:8 35:2,3 47:22 48:6 54:21 55:9 91:19 paper 25:22 92:13 paper-thin 92:14 papers 48:7 paperwork 97:18 paramount 28:15 parity 64:17 part 18:2 23:4 27:21 29:17,18 30:2,6,7,9,16 32:1 48:16 57:5 62:21 participant 62:11 participate 15:12 37:17 participating 112:13 participation 37:18 particle 11:13 27:10 30:6 38:5 48:5 50:3 53:19 53:20 particular 13:14 39:14 51:11 68:12 72:15 74:12 95:12 108:14 particularly 12:11 39:11 40:13 54:13 55:20 58:15 63:18 65:11 67:15 69:21 75:5,6 parties 10:5 55:2 102:15 104:8 partly 69:6 partner 102:4 parts 21:11 34:10

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 124 36:7 53:16 party 10:22 11:3 12:17 19:5 21:20 21:22 22:4,8 23:13 ,18 24:1 ,6,7 43:9 45:13 54:14 84:16,21 93:12 95:11 ,17 99:7 111:10 passed 25:18 patterned 19:8 20:3 pediatricians 109:2 penalties 88:15 people 7:18 8:1 13:13 24:13 40:20 40:21 49:18 52:10 53:14 63:7 89:10 91:14 97:7 101:3 101:18 percent 27:10 34:21 38:4 48:20 49:11 ,13 50:4 53:3 ,3 56:4,8 83:3 83:5,11 Perdue 2:7 31:11 31:12 perfectly 107:16 perform 9:21 76:22 86:8 performance 9:8 9:18 22:17 26:6 28:7,21 30:21 36:9 60:2 68:17 72:21 73:7 75:11 75:18 76:6,19 78:1 ,4,9 81:20 95:15 98:7 104:1 period 5:15,19 8:10 8:12 10:5 12:4 14:21 29:1 64:9 72:1 ,13 113:4 person 90:3 Personally 51:8 personnel 35:11 perspective 62:14 62:15 88:12 93:11 perspectives 26:17 pesticides 19:17 Phase 21:8,10 34:6 75:13 ,15,21 ,22 76:7 77:13 phase-in 29:1 phone 4:5 110:5 112:13 photochemical 19:14 pick 20:17 89:10 picking 89:12 piece 23:11 25:22 53:5,19,20 92:13 98:1 pieces 89:15 piping 87:12 place 4:21 61:2 78:4 103:5 plan 14:15 platform 7:10 18:20 19:3 20:8 21:15 27:9,9 37:9 82:3 platforms 13:4 16:16 20:22 30:15 75:16 players 71:16 please 21:6 22:9 pleased 32:10 39:12,16 56:20 64:8,14 82:13 93:22 108:11 pleasure 48:15 plumber 87:11 ply 110:16 plywood 2:3 10:8 10:10 11:8,10 13:6 21:18 23:12 27:3 ,8,12,18,21 28:3 29:6,9 30:3 33:14 37:6 48:6 58:17 74:5 94:9 103:10,13 107:6 107:10,21 110:22 111:13 ,14,17,20 112:2 pod 110:6 point 9:4 13:22 15:4 34:3 64:16 66:19 69:18 101:16 109:6 Pollution 1:20 3:4 4:8 7:13 poorly 91:19 92:19 popular 95:2 poses 81:4 position 55:8 61:11 67:11 74:20 108:22 positions 73:19 possibility 10:12 40:17 105:18 possible 5:4 28:15 102:16,18 113:7 possibly 7:20 50:15 potential 5:22 6:7 13:2 56:18 69:22 92:7 ppm 18:17 106:12 practical 5:4 96:18 practice 42:16 practiced 32:19 practicing 105:8 pragmatic 46:18 93:18 100:22 pre-made 87:5 preamble 85:14 precursors 19:13 preferred 68:2 preferring 15:3 prepare 91:10 prepared 45:6 present 1:15 2:1 61:12 presentation 9:4 14:13 presentations 3:12 14:1 ,9 presented 60:13 presenters 14:17 preserves 80:1 president 27:3 31:12 38:2 47:8 presiding 1:14 pressures 50:11 ,15 presumably 85:16 pretty 59:14 63:11 69:7 prevent 85:3 Prevention 1:20 3:4 4:8 7:13 previously 63:15 67:11 77:3 price 76:20 primarily 73:4 primary 49:2 principle 108:12 print 48:7 priorities 113:15 probably 5:2 56:3 56:7 59:17 75:8 100:6 112:22 problem 85:10 89:8 94:13 106:17 108:20 process 34:11 ,14 34:18 37:19 57:6 62:8 64:20 86:7 101:10 102:18 105:15 processes 78:9 produce 10:18 24:11 48:5 97:11 produced 4:14 24:19 34:5 49:13 49:15 53:4 65:18 71:17 producer 9:16 47:12,22 70:21 producers 10:15 11:1 12:9 19:15 24:11 34:2 48:20 54:4 55:4 66:3 72:18 79:19 102:10,10 produces 53:17 producing 47:18 53:10 product 10:19 11:1 11:22 13:3 17:6 21:14 23:7,9 24:17 28:15 29:14 29:17 30:8 34:20 36:12,14 37:2,3,9 44:8 52:13 ,16 53:18 63:19 66:12 66:20 67:1 ,5 70:1 70:7,8,10,13,17 72:20 80:10 82:2 85:17 87:4,13 96:3 ,4,10 99:12 100:5 103:19,22 104:1 107:8 production 12:14 27:17 38:4 42:14 43:2 59:3 productivity 51:15 products 1:6,12 2:9 3:6 4:11 ,14 5:6,7 5:14,21 6:1 ,3 7:20 9:9,11 ,16,18,20 10:7,13 11:4,7,9 11:17 12:20 13:9 15:22 16:14,14,17 16:22 17:2,8,12 17:15,16,21 18:5 18:16,19,22 19:9 19:13 ,16,20 20:2 20:21 21:12,18 22:15 24:16 26:14 26:16 32:12 33:5 33:11 ,13,21 34:5 35:6 36:3 ,5,6 37:5 37:13 38:8,11 ,21 39:15,18 41:11 ,13 41:13 ,15,21 42:3 42:11 ,12,15 43:4 43:15 44:4,10,18 45:8,9,16 46:16 47:2,12,18 50:3 50:19 56:5 57:16 58:15 60:3 61:15 61:18,20,21 63:12 63:14 66:13 67:9 67:13 ,20,20 68:3 68:19 72:16 73:8 74:2,4,9,12,17

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 125 75:14,16,17 76:3 77:6,18,21 79:4 79:13 80:5,22 81:20 82:8 83:15 84:6,14 85:10 91:22 93:5,13 94:7,8,11 ,17,20 103:6,10 104:12 104:22 108:21 109:12 111:6,11 111:12 112:5 professionals 7:15 profile 36:6 profound 67:2 program 1:17 3:8 3:18 7:12 12:7,8 19:9 60:17 62:7 69:3 76:7 programs 38:19,20 62:22 63:3 ,22 65:10 promised 112:15 promote 41:15 77:6 109:16 promulgate 46:11 74:13 proof 30:21 proposal 6:9,9,14 7:22 9:2,6 11:20 12:6 15:19 18:9 29:20 31:3 32:22 36:18 62:4 64:10 74:21 75:2,10,14 79:12,15 80:21 84:1 ,20 88:2 93:10,17 94:4 103:16 109:14 proposals 15:21 63:10 propose 42:22 proposed 4:10,13 4:20 5:3,6,10,20 18:1 ,7,14 20:3 21:7 22:11 ,22 24:2 26:16 28:22 32:6,12,16 33:7 36:8,20 44:13 ,17 45:17,19 54:21 55:18 58:3 70:22 74:6,8 75:6,13 77:4,17 78:20 79:4 80:6,15 81:16 83:16,20 84:7,8 85:15,19 85:21 87:22 90:18 93:9 112:3 proposing 16:21 19:4 22:8 protect 64:22 80:2 protection 1:3 8:7 protects 65:7 91:22 protocols 78:22 prove 35:17 proven 34:14 68:15 75:19 provide 5:19 11:20 32:13 35:14 61:5 63:17 79:19 84:5 87:15 101:1 provided 17:15 33:12 74:7 78:19 85:1 86:14 provides 29:4 31:21 32:2 74:22 76:9 80:11 81:17 providing 72:14 76:12 79:3 provinces 15:15 provision 45:9 106:1 provisions 5:3 44:18 104:13 ,14 105:6 public 1:6,12 5:18 6:1 ,12,17,19 8:12 8:20 32:15 37:17 42:8 46:4 65:1 74:19 91:7 93:1 93:11 109:8 113:4 publicly 81:18 published 36:4 77:3 pull 100:5 purchase 87:5 purchased 30:14 98:19 purchases 60:22 85:17 86:2 Purdue 31:9 purely 93:11 purpose 104:10 purposes 12:21 15:17 16:7 pursue 30:14 put 7:6 15:21 24:9 31:5 38:11 41:1 42:7 54:6 62:7 65:5,12 66:8 68:9 68:12 70:6 104:16 105:21 ,22 106:11 106:12 puts 87:1 putting 105:20 Q Q&A 14:16 109:22 110:6 qualifications 85:12 qualify 103:18 quality 19:5 39:1 quarantine 52:4 question 108:13 110:4,6 questions 5:17 14:17 15:1 107:4 quick 55:22 quite 7:16,20 17:22 52:20 98:6 Quixote-like 44:19 quo 26:8 R raise 69:5 raised 58:16 92:6 range 73:7 rate 31:1 rates 31:7 53:7 raw 33:3 35:4 41:13 44:8 reach 101:19 reactions 109:4 read 43:19 97:22 readily 76:19 ready 16:1 ,1 real 55:22 67:21 77:1 ,14 81:4 103:11 104:10 108:8 109:7 realistic 74:22 reality 53:2 realize 49:2 92:11 113:8 really 7:1 ,2 13:11 17:8 25:20 54:2 54:17 57:9 63:9 69:16,19 73:12 77:4 81:10 101:14 102:9 reason 5:14 41:7 64:8 66:18 67:22 88:9 reasonable 30:13 37:11 90:12 93:20 101:1 106:16 109:11 ,15 reasons 16:21 55:6 60:13 recall 52:17 received 6:2,16 recertification 33:4 34:9 recertify 34:4 recognition 11:21 recognize 37:1 64:19 67:6 70:19 71:6 97:22 recognizes 55:3 recognizing 63:9 71:19 recommend 46:15 Recommendations 3:5 recommended 46:14,21 reconsider 55:7 record 15:17 27:4 36:17 88:3,5,6,17 88:19 113:21 recordkeeping 83:19 84:3 ,19 85:21 87:19 88:2 88:11 ,13,21 89:20 records 60:22 89:22 98:18 reduce 19:11 ,13 34:14 36:5 reduced 10:21 11:2 12:7 65:18 reduces 34:19 reduction 11:21 26:9 35:19 reductions 17:19 22:13 81:22 redundant 60:11 reference 104:18 referenced 6:10 refinements 42:21 reflected 58:10 60:8 80:8 85:2 reflects 61:3 reformulate 70:10 refrigerator 87:10 regard 15:21 49:4 110:13 regarding 15:1 74:1 79:16 regardless 16:18 62:8 regime 66:2,14 regimes 108:9 regional 56:14 register 6:10 96:16 regularly 83:14 regulate 16:14 68:2 74:17 80:12 87:4 regulated 38:8 63:15 75:4 77:10 85:4 86:10 87:3 88:21 104:3 regulating 37:12 77:5 80:22 81:19 82:8 84:13 110:17 110:18 111:6,7,18 regulation 6:21

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 126 17:1 18:3 19:10 28:13 30:19 36:15 37:1 40:8 47:2 55:18 56:19 58:15 59:21 68:3 77:18 81:3 82:1 83:17 84:3 89:1 90:19 102:19 103:8 104:19 107:1 110:21 111:8,14 112:3 regulations 5:5,8 6:5,8 8:2 9:13 16:11 41:17,18 65:3 84:7,10,15 85:2,3,8 90:13 ,15 regulator 75:3 regulators 50:12 51:2 102:17 regulatory 22:13 25:4 31:12 42:16 45:17 69:21 81:1 81:14 84:11 85:3 87:20 108:9,11 reiterate 8:17 18:14 36:20 80:18 related 32:9 80:5 released 18:10 reliability 54:14 relies 37:12 rely 77:12 relying 80:9 97:6 remain 39:19 remarkable 102:9 remarks 3:2 14:19 15:16 remember 40:15 43:1 remind 14:11 remodel 83:1 remodeler 82:17 83:6 85:16 remodelers 82:18 83:8 85:11 remodeling 83:7 renewed 100:10 reopen 71:22 reopened 5:18 12:4 64:9 reopening 8:10 replicate 52:21 report 56:8 reporter 8:18 represent 35:18 38:7,9 48:19 61:19 82:13 representative 37:3 Representatives 104:16 representing 82:21 represents 32:4 33:8 38:4 request 37:4 55:7 requested 58:7 require 21:21 22:8 35:10 70:22 74:5 80:6 84:16 required 5:12 9:15 12:19 16:15,17 20:2,15 24:6 59:8 60:12,18 62:3 requirement 19:2 28:20 33:4 35:5 79:18 87:22 88:2 103:11 106:13 requirements 5:12 9:12 10:10,17 18:5,21 19:2,6 20:20 26:13 ,15 30:21 42:17 60:3 60:6 61:1 ,3 72:21 73:10 83:19 84:8 84:11 ,17,18,22 85:22 87:19 88:1 88:14,20 requires 34:4 36:10 88:4 requiring 22:8 24:22 reside 87:14 residential 83:10 residents 92:1 resin 22:20 25:10 60:4 72:18 73:2,6 75:11 76:13 ,17,21 77:7,7,8,12 78:5 92:14 98:13 99:1 99:17 100:4 102:10 103:20 resins 22:18 26:5 51:17 73:3 76:2 77:8,16 97:19 98:15,20 99:1 ,4 99:19 101:5 resize 87:7 resolving 106:21 Resource 4:22 84:10 91:21 Resources 2:2,6 90:22 109:1 110:8 respectfully 37:4 55:7 responsible 42:9 43:12 90:16 95:22 rest 7:7 25:9,11 ,19 restrained 88:7 restricting 79:13 restriction 103:17 106:15 restroom 14:6,8 restrooms 14:3 result 26:1 32:21 44:3 ,19 62:4 82:2 86:18 results 79:20 100:18 retailer 23:11 85:13 ,19 86:5 retailers 48:9 retention 88:3 ,5,7 88:18,20 revenue 62:2 review 3:5 103:4 reviewed 58:8 rewarding 57:10 RICHARD 2:10 right 14:5,6 26:22 44:6 50:21 54:19 80:10 90:6,6 101:13 rigor 52:22 54:4 rigorous 57:4 61:1 rigorously 43:22 risk 31:5 65:7 97:2 Rita 91:16 Robert 2:2 13:15 82:10,16 89:3 110:7 role 87:12,17 108:8 roles 64:17 rollout 63:16 69:20 71:12 room 1:13 40:13 41:5 66:18 87:10 87:12 routine 19:5 RRP 88:15 rule 4:10,20 5:3,6 5:11 ,21 7:14 28:12,22 32:6,16 33:7,18 36:1 ,8 37:15 42:20 43:1 43:14 44:2,18 46:4,19,20 47:3 51:11 52:22 53:13 54:5,10,19 65:4 70:22 74:8,13 77:4 83:16,20 85:15,20 87:22 88:15 90:18 91:12 93:2,4,20 96:19 99:4 101:21 112:15 113:13 rule's 85:21 rulemaking 1:18 3:7,15 7:21 13:20 15:2 38:9,14,15 39:4,4,19 40:4 42:4,5 69:1 101:10 112:21 rulemakings 39:14 rules 4:13 43:19 46:11 ,13 54:12 65:13 67:17 70:11 78:20 86:19 ruling 27:22 runner 90:4 running 52:3 S Sacramento 15:11 Safety 1:20 3:3 4:8 sale 11:17 36:13 42:14 sales 56:8,15 60:22 samples 20:17 Sarah 16:4 Sarah's 16:1 sat 40:16 satisfied 98:21 satisfies 37:13 saturated 92:15 save 60:11 saying 9:1 11:2 98:9 says 42:17 schedule 112:22 113:5 scheme 35:10 69:21 science 79:1 92:6 92:18 93:16 scientific 78:7 scope 63:11 74:8 second 16:2 47:21 51:8 63:1 ,8 66:19 79:8 sector 8:3 32:2 68:4 sectors 107:14 see 15:13 24:20 41:21 56:20 58:9 64:8,14 93:12,22 95:8 96:10 97:8 99:9 100:17 101:16,20 106:4 seek 44:2 74:13 80:14 94:3 seeking 58:10 seen 15:10 69:7 105:7 segment 32:4 56:22 self 96:1 ,7 101:16 self-certification 10:12 12:7 96:17 100:22 self-certify 97:5

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### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 128 summary 81:19 sun 111:1 super 50:16 supplier 80:9 suppliers 38:12,13 79:22 80:2 83:9 supply 31:20 33:19 71:4,8,13 76:19 87:14 97:16 100:16,18 support 28:4 36:18 36:21 50:21 53:8 57:22 58:2 60:1 61:9 64:21 77:5 94:5 95:8 106:20 supported 73:18 79:1 106:6 supports 54:20 90:11 sure 8:5 25:13 ,20 52:4 62:6,22 63:8 66:10 71:5,11 81:2 93:6 97:9 surface 38:10 surviving 47:9 sustained 64:1 94:1 swallowed 45:16 sympathy 27:5 50:5 sync 112:9 synchronize 80:15 synthetic 16:19 20:20 21:4 system 45:14 52:15 61:22 67:18 76:13 systems 43:9 52:13 73:6 78:5 98:4 T T-A-B-L-E 3:1 tailored 68:8 tailoring 65:3 take 44:7 50:2 51:4 54:4 70:15 71:8 76:16 79:5 89:14 105:17 107:6 taken 33:10 42:22 71:22 73:19 Tale 45:20 talk 4:9 5:16 6:13 14:22 18:12 63:20 65:22 66:19 89:20 89:21 107:2 112:15 talked 17:6 22:2 63:11 66:22 94:16 95:13 ,21 talking 9:1 63:19 69:22 77:19 102:21 103:5 111:22 talks 66:11 targeted 90:16 task 39:21 team 7:14,16 13:16 13:19 technical 33:16 58:18 73:7 76:18 technically 51:13 technicians 52:11 technological 77:1 technologies 73:2 75:12 76:9,21 77:8,9,13 78:11 technology 43:13 58:18 60:5 68:16 73:9 76:1 ,17 99:15 tell 59:15 60:15 64:5 89:5 temperature 78:1 ten 14:10 50:8 tens 22:5 45:7 term 33:11 terms 15:17 21:6 65:17 70:3 ,21 test 19:22 20:2 25:1 25:6,15 26:1 ,4 28:7 77:22 78:2 79:19 80:1 94:17 94:20 tested 17:16 100:9 testifying 51:9 testimony 77:14 testing 9:14,21 10:9 10:16,21 11:2 12:7,15,21 17:9 19:5,18 20:12,15 20:15 24:4,5 25:1 28:20 30:20 34:1 35:11 36:11 ,15 37:10 38:17 43:10 45:13 51:17 54:15 59:8 60:12 62:1 ,3 68:14 70:14,18 74:6 78:8 84:17 84:21 94:21 ,22 95:7 97:9 99:5 100:7,17,20 101:4 tests 28:20 62:8 thank 7:4 13:14,17 16:6 26:19 31:7 37:16,19 38:1 47:4 55:12,13,16 61:12,16 71:20 72:3 ,4,11 82:4,8 90:19 101:21 109:17 112:12 thanks 4:4 16:2 26:20 37:20 41:2 91:1 110:7 113:17 theirs 82:17 themes 113:10 thick 92:12 thin 21:9,16 75:17 92:8,11 thing 10:15 42:19 44:6 64:19 67:15 things 5:20 38:11 43:16 71:16 94:8 102:22 think 24:2 25:1 ,2,4 25:5,12,15,18 26:4,6,7 39:7 41:9 41:10,22 42:18 49:3 50:13 52:18 54:15 55:18,20 56:6 57:12 58:21 59:1 ,9,11 ,15,16 59:19,22 60:12,14 60:21 61:6 62:16 63:5 65:11 66:16 66:17 67:6,9 68:20 69:8,15 70:2,3,5 72:12 73:11 75:7 78:17 80:10,17 81:9 94:10,14,16,19 95:3 ,3,9,12,14,15 95:22 96:15,22 97:13 ,20 98:4,8 98:11 ,12,13,22 99:1 ,22 100:4,11 101:11 ,16,19 105:3 ,11 106:15 106:21 107:11 ,16 107:21 108:4 109:3 ,6,14 111:22 thinking 26:1 third 10:22 11:3 12:17 19:5 21:20 21:22 22:4,8 23:13 ,18 24:1 ,6,7 43:9 45:13 54:14 63:16 69:18 84:16 84:21 93:12 95:11 95:17 99:7 111:10 thought 10:6 11:12 22:2 40:20 51:3 62:12 93:1 ,3 103:3 104:4 106:8 thoughtful 91:2 thoughts 13:9 26:19 73:20 thousands 22:6 44:22 45:7 50:10 56:11 83:15 three 5:20 27:13 34:16 38:8 60:18 62:12 88:11 ,18 98:5,12 101:2 three-year 29:1 88:3 threshold 12:15 47:3 throw 89:19 tight 51:22 tighten 18:4 54:12 time 14:11 ,15 40:21 51:8 52:3 55:19 60:11 63:17 69:20 70:12,15 71:8,14 71:15,22 90:9,19 109:21 110:11 times 15:11 39:10 45:21 ,22 Titus 2:10 55:14,16 today 6:19 8:19 12:13 18:12 36:21 41:8,11 44:1 ,15 45:14 46:3 47:11 49:13 50:4 55:1 72:13 73:12,14,21 78:17 79:2 82:13 90:10 91:3 ,6,9 102:5 106:5,19 108:10 110:2 112:18 113:5 today's 6:16 32:14 102:22 toilet 90:1 told 17:17 57:12 Tom 2:4,6 37:21 38:2 40:14,16 41:2 48:18,20 50:18 73:11 90:21 102:8 Tom's 113:16 topics 46:15 topper 90:1 totally 58:17 107:11 touch 97:3 tough 52:8,22 toughest 43:2 town 102:5 105:8 toxic 16:9 toxicologists 7:17 toxics 5:1 7:13 TPC 67:18 traceability 52:14 trade 31:15 38:3 40:6,7 56:1 61:21 66:1 82:21 trailers 91:15

### (202) 234-4433 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Page 129 transfer 80:13 transition 89:1 translate 69:16 travels 96:9 treatment 3:6 8:14 32:12 84:6 treats 21:17 tremendous 72:20 tried 50:16 102:14 true 55:4 60:14 92:5,17 93:16 truly 54:22 truthful 97:5 try 21:1 64:16 102:17 108:20 trying 21:13 59:3 64:6 69:11 70:3 95:19 113:13 TSCA 27:20,22 28:9 29:14,22 30:15 31:4 65:5 88:13 TSCA's 28:14 turn 13:15 26:22 turning 34:2 tweak 22:20 two 4:13 38:7 45:20 57:3 63:2 64:17 65:9,15 74:19 75:5 88:4,18 108:8 110:15 111:4,11 two-level 29:13 two-ply 68:21 111:1 112:4 type 66:7 77:7 85:17 110:6 types 78:5 111:11 typical 51:1 101:10 U U.S 25:5 32:3 49:9 56:5 65:15,18 UF 77:12,15 ULEF 60:6 77:8 78:11 99:1 ,3,10 99:10 100:4 ultimately 82:7 97:7 ultra-low 73:3 uncertainty 83:17 84:2 underlying 109:16 undermine 92:21 93:19 underpinnings 78:8 understand 7:22 21:5 40:22 53:7 54:8 59:4 64:15 68:14 95:13 96:21 97:2 understanding 59:10 unequivocally 75:22 unfamiliarity 67:16 unfinished 9:10,20 18:18,19 35:4 Unfortunately 94:10,19 unhappy 106:3 uniform 43:17 unify 104:19 unions 109:9 united 1:1 4:15 42:14 45:11 47:15 71:18 81:1 ,3 92:19 102:16 109:1 units 83:3 universally 21:22 unnecessary 65:12 67:15 81:14 83:20 90:15 unprecedented 52:2 unrealistic 35:9 unusual 105:6 106:1 unwarranted 33:18 urea-formaldehy... 22:20 73:4 urge 46:19 79:5 109:13 use 16:18 19:2 22:19 30:5 51:16 58:17 77:6 97:19 98:3 ,14 99:11 100:4 103:12 useful 103:3 users 79:20,22 87:13 96:10 102:11 V vague 85:12 validated 95:3 value 25:2,15 34:18 93:12 97:9 vanities 56:3 varied 75:1 variety 7:18 8:11 10:3 11:5 31:21 46:15 107:12 various 104:8 varnish 18:18 vast 49:20 vastly 34:14 Venable 102:4 Vendinello 1:17 3:16 14:18 112:11 112:14 veneer 2:3 16:19 18:20 20:10 22:19 27:3 ,8,9 30:5 37:8 48:14 53:22 92:8 92:11 111:3 ,5,7 111:12 veneered 17:21 18:16,22 21:14 22:15 26:13 veracity 97:6 verification 94:15 97:14,17,19 98:8 100:15 101:2,18 verified 98:17 verify 28:20 95:16 versus 88:18 vice 31:12 Vietnam 53:12 view 23:11 65:8 67:18 69:6 viewpoint 62:5 views 72:15 violation 20:1 26:3 88:16,18 Virginia 49:9 82:17 virtually 30:4 virtue 113:3 VOC 19:12,19 voice 40:10 57:21 102:17 volatile 19:12 volume 12:9,14 W wage 53:7 want 6:22 7:3 8:4 20:14 26:21 ,22 40:12 42:10 52:18 54:17,19 60:10 62:6 63:8 65:1 69:5 70:10,17 80:18 81:8 100:3 101:4 113:8 wanted 13:20 14:20 15:16 18:3 23:20 51:5,6 66:19 69:18 82:15 91:8 110:13 112:10 wanting 20:13 warrant 33:17 warranty 70:6,6,17 Washington 1:13 82:20 108:19 wasn't 110:8 way 4:17 7:7 8:6 14:7 17:5,20 19:7 20:6 21:21 42:13 71:14 80:10 86:20 95:9 99:3,12 100:1 ,12 101:8,13 106:21 111:14,18 113:9 ways 66:1 ,5 107:13 we'll 6:12 14:11 ,13 we're 4:9 7:2,21 8:9 8:19 12:4 13:22 14:21 15:2,3 21:13 22:7 26:2 41:8,10 47:9,11 47:15 52:8,8 54:3 54:3 58:13 63:9 64:8,11 ,13 66:18 69:11 71:10 77:19 101:3 ,19 105:10 105:21 ,22 108:11 109:18 110:16 113:11 ,13 we've 5:18 6:2 8:17 12:4 15:10 17:12 18:9 21:1 ,2 26:16 38:22 50:14,16 52:12,14 53:1 55:1 59:2 60:16 60:18 63:11 75:9 81:9 102:14 106:17 108:14 111:7,9 web 71:13 week 59:13 weekly 64:15 weighed 57:18 welcome 4:3 7:1 42:18 69:13 welcomed 113:16 welcomes 32:13 well-considered 46:11 went 17:3 113:21 weren't 52:4 West 48:3 whatsoever 108:2 Wheeler 1:14,18 3:6 7:5,11 wide 7:18 31:21 73:7 105:13 widespread 95:8 widest 76:9 willingness 57:8 winter 51:20 wisdom 45:22 46:10

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