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24–199 PDF 2005

S. HRG. 108–871

NOMINATION OF PAMELA HUGHES PATENAUDE

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON

BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED EIGHTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

ON

THE NOMINATION OF PAMELA HUGHES PATENAUDE, OF NEW HAMPSHIRE,

TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF COMMUNITY PLANNING DEVELOPMENT,

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

OCTOBER 5, 2004

Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs

(

Available at: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/senate05sh.html

COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS

RICHARD C. SHELBY, Alabama, Chairman

ROBERT F. BENNETT, Utah

WAYNE ALLARD, Colorado

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming

CHUCK HAGEL, Nebraska

RICK SANTORUM, Pennsylvania

JIM BUNNING, Kentucky

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho

JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire

ELIZABETH DOLE, North Carolina

LINCOLN D. CHAFEE, Rhode Island

PAUL S. SARBANES, Maryland

CHRISTOPHER J. DODD, Connecticut

TIM JOHNSON, South Dakota

JACK REED, Rhode Island

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York

EVAN BAYH, Indiana

ZELL MILLER, Georgia

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan

JON S. CORZINE, New Jersey

KATHLEEN L. CASEY, Staff Director and Counsel

STEVEN B. HARRIS, Democratic Staff Director and Chief Counsel

MARK A. CALABRIA, Senior Professional Staff

JONATHAN MILLER, Democratic Professional Staff

JENNIFER FOGEL-BUBLICK, Democratic Counsel

SARAH L. GARRETT, Democratic Legislative Assistant

JOSEPH R. KOLINSKI, Chief Clerk and Computer Systems Administrator

GEORGE E. WHITTLE, Editor

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CONTENTS

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004

Page

Opening statement of Senator Allard .................................................................... 1

Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of:

Senator Sarbanes .............................................................................................. 2

Senator Sununu ................................................................................................ 3

Senator Dole ...................................................................................................... 4

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 5

WITNESSES

Jeb Bradley, a U.S. Representative in Congress from the State of New Hampshire ....................................................................................................................... 5

NOMINEES

Pamela Hughes Patenaude, of New Hampshire, to be Assistant Secretary

of Community Planning and Development, U.S. Department of Housing

and Urban Development ...................................................................................... 6

Biographical sketch of nominee ....................................................................... 13

(III)

(1)

NOMINATION OF

PAMELA HUGHES PATENAUDE, OF NEW HAMPSHIRE,

TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF COMMUNITY

PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, U.S.

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2004

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING AND URBAN AFFAIRS, Washington, DC.

The Committee met at 2:32 p.m., in room SD–538, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Senator Wayne Allard, presiding.

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR WAYNE ALLARD

Senator ALLARD. [Presiding]. The Banking Committee will come

to order.

First, I just want to review briefly how we have laid out the

agenda for this afternoon. We will have the Chairman’s statement;

then we will have opening statements from Senator Sununu and

Senator Dole; and then I will give Congressman Bradley an opportunity to make a few introductory remarks. Then we will swear in

the witness, have a statement from the witness, and then questions

from the Committee; and if Members come in with statements that

they would like to make during the introductory part of it, before

we have a statement from Ms. Patenaude—is that the way we pronounce your name?

Ms. PATENAUDE. Correct.

Senator ALLARD. Then, at the time that we are ready to take

your testimony, Ms. Patenaude, we will have you take an oath

prior to your statement.

I will go ahead and make an opening statement.

I would like to welcome you, Pam, to the Committee on Banking,

Housing and Urban Affairs, and I appreciate you appearing before

the Committee today.

You are nominated to be the Assistant Secretary of Community

Planning and Development at the Department of Housing and

Urban Development, and this is a significant responsibility as CPD

oversees many of HUD’s most popular programs, including the

Community Development Block Grants, commonly referred to as

CDBG; HOME; American Dream Downpayment; Housing Opportunities for Persons with AIDS; and YouthBuild, as well as Homeless

Assistance.

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These programs are generally well-run, as they are not currently

on GAO’s high-risk list, unlike most other HUD programs. That

does not mean, however, that we cannot make changes to improve

the programs.

As Assistant Secretary, I am hopeful that Ms. Patenaude will

work closely with the Congress to make suggestions as to how we

can improve both the effectiveness and efficiency of the CPD programs.

I would like to note one particular concern I have with the CDBG

program, and that is the increasing number of set-asides and earmarks in the program. Last year’s omnibus appropriations bill contained nearly 1,000 community development earmarks. CDBG was

designed to be a formula distribution program, and earmarks simply reduce the amount of money that is available to jurisdictions

under the formula.

Even more distressing, by circumventing the normal process,

projects that do not qualify even under CDBG’s extremely broad

guidelines are able to receive money. I recognize that this is the

doing of Congress, not the Department, but I am hopeful that you,

Ms. Patenaude, will join me in calling for an end to community development earmarks. I support the formula distribution, and I believe Congress should stick to the formula.

As I have indicated in many previous hearings, I believe HUD

must focus on its core mission to provide decent, safe, sanitary, and

affordable housing. Good leadership involves a clear vision. Key

HUD staff must have a clear set of performance goals in mind as

well as ways in which the Department and Congress can measure

progress in achieving those goals.

Additionally, it is critical to consider the long-term sustainability

of any program at HUD. The Government Performance and Results

Act, or simply the Results Act, is a powerful tool toward that end.

I would encourage our nominee to become familiar with HUD’s

Strategic Plan, Annual Performance Plans, Annual Accountability

Reports, and financial statements. If properly utilized, they can

help you achieve success in meeting the Department’s mission.

Again, thank you for your willingness to serve at HUD and to appear before the Committee. I look forward to working with you to

provide decent, safe, affordable housing for American families.

I now call on the Ranking Member for an opening statement.

STATEMENT OF SENATOR PAUL S. SARBANES

Senator SARBANES. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

I want to add my words of welcome to Ms. Patenaude for appearing before us today. You have had a long record of service. In particular, I know of your ongoing work at HUD, which started more

than 20 years ago as an intern. I am trying to recall whether we

have had a HUD intern come before us to be an assistant secretary. We need to check that out.

You have served in a number of capacities at the Department,

in a number of different offices, expanding your responsibilities

each time. I think this has given you a breadth of experience at the

Department which will surely be of help in carrying out responsibilities as the Assistant Secretary for Community Planning and

Development.

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The programs administered by that assistant secretary I think

are extremely important—HOME, CDBG—and they involve, of

course, close partnerships with State and local governments, between the Federal Government and the State governments or the

local government, and also the private and nonprofit sectors. In

that regard, you have served, I think, if I recall your re ́sume ́ correctly, at both the local level and the State government in dealing

with assisted housing and economic development, and you have

also worked on housing in the private sector.

This experience I would hope would help you to make a more effective administrator of these critical programs, about which I will

ask a few questions after we hear your opening statement.

Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you very much, Senator Sarbanes.

Now we will go to Senator Sununu for an introduction and then

Senator Dole.

Senator Sununu.

STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHN E. SUNUNU

Senator SUNUNU. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

It is a pleasure to be here and a pleasure to welcome Congressman Bradley as well, who ably took my place in the House. It is

nice to have him on this side of the Capitol.

Senator SARBANES. Big shoes to fill, Congressman Bradley, aren’t

they?

Senator SUNUNU. It is a pleasure to welcome him and it is an

honor to join with Senator Judd Gregg in offering our delegation’s

very strong support for the nomination of Pamela Patenaude to be

Assistant Secretary for Community Planning and Development.

I want to welcome all of her family members—I know there are

a number of them here—but a special note to Bob and Estella, her

parents, and of course, her husband Chuck. It is great to see them

here before the Committee.

Pam brings great experience to this job and this opportunity, as

you mentioned, Mr. Chairman—over 22 years of experience in

housing, but also in areas of finance and community and economic

development, which are going to be central to her success in this

new job.

That experience goes back to our home State of New Hampshire,

where we were neighbors in Bedford, and Pamela originally served

as one of the planning board members, getting her feet wet, as it

were, in interests of community and economic development. She

has shown her commitment time and time again to those issues as

a volunteer in many areas, but also as an outstanding professional.

She has served in a formal capacity now for nearly 8 years at

HUD and understands the critical role that HUD plays and its impact on families and the impact it can have on communities that

are working to improve the economic picture for those families.

She has worked in New Hampshire as the administrator of our

Section 8 housing program, so has that firsthand experience that

will really make a difference in overseeing some of the programs

that were mentioned earlier by the members.

Most recently, she served as Assistant Deputy Secretary for Field

Policy and Management, again in a role where oversight is imporVerDate 11-MAY-2000 17:59 Nov 07, 2005 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 24199.TXT SBANK4 PsN: SBANK4
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tant, management criteria are very important, and in a role that

has brought her in day-to-day contact with a lot of those working

for HUD in the field to make the programs mentioned, whether

CDBG or HOME or other initiatives, really work on the ground.

Time and again, Pamela has shown great commitment to increasing homeownership, to supporting community development, and to

increasing access to affordable housing—all issues that have been

spoken of at great length in the many hearings that the Banking

Committee has had on these issues.

We all know how tough it is to find people who are qualified, who

bring great professional and personal skills to their work, when

they could earn a lot more money in the private sector. We want

those qualified individuals to be willing to serve in public service,

to be willing to serve in Government, because of the great value

they can make for so many people, and we are very fortunate to

have someone as qualified as Pamela Patenaude to step forward

and show not just an interest but a real dedication to her career

in public service.

It is an honor and a pleasure to welcome her and to offer great

support along with Senator Judd Gregg for her nomination.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you.

Senator Dole, would you like to make an introduction?

STATEMENT OF SENATOR ELIZABETH DOLE

Senator DOLE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Certainly it is an honor and a privilege to join my colleague from

New Hampshire, Senator Sununu, in welcoming to the Committee

a very dear friend, Pamela Hughes Patenaude. We have known one

another for many years now, and it is so good to see her husband

Chuck, her three beautiful daughters—Caitlin, Meghan, and Jennifer—and of course, my friends Bob and Estella Hughes—it is

wonderful to see you today—and Pam’s brother Kevin; and I think

there are some additional family members in the audience. So welcome to all of you. It is a real joy to be with you today.

And certainly I believe President Bush and Secretary Jackson

have selected an outstanding individual to fill this critical position.

Pam holds a master’s degree in community economic development.

She has worked, as we have heard, in the field for 22 years at the

Federal, the State, and the local levels of government in this particular field.

For the past 3 years, Pam has served, as you have heard, as Assistant Deputy Secretary for Field Policy and Management at

HUD. This position oversees the 80 field offices throughout the

country that deliver HUD programs to our citizens, and under

Pam’s leadership, HUD field offices have a new focus on customer

service, professionalism, and efficiency.

My office knows firsthand that HUD’s North Carolina staff is responsive to needs of our communities and constituents, and it has

been my pleasure to work with Pam on some of these issues. She

is also dedicated to building stronger communities through philanthropic and civic organizations.

5

I am particularly proud of Pam’s service to the Greater Manchester Chapter of the American Red Cross, an organization that

is very near and dear to my heart.

Pamela Hughes Patenaude is a woman with outstanding credentials and experience in housing and community development. This

intelligent and well-qualified woman is from a family that represents New Hampshire’s civic generosity and integrity, and I

enthusiastically endorse the nomination, Mr. Chairman, and look

forward to speedy consideration by the Committee.

Thank you.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you.

Before I call on Representative Bradley, I would like to see if

Senator Carper has an opening statement.

COMMENTS OF SENATOR THOMAS R. CARPER

Senator CARPER. Thank you. I do not have a statement. I just

want to welcome the nominee and her family, and wish her the

best of luck in the future.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you.

Congressman Bradley.

STATEMENT OF JEB BRADLEY

A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM

THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE

Mr. BRADLEY. Thank you very much, Chairman Allard, and all

the other Members of the Committee.

It is really a pleasure for me to be here this afternoon and join

with Senator Sununu and Senator Dole in supporting the nomination of Ms. Patenaude to this position.

My office has also worked closely with her, and we have found

her to be exceptional in pursuing her duties, and on behalf of all

of us in the New Hampshire delegation, I do not think we can

stress enough what a great opportunity this is, not only for the

State of New Hampshire but also our entire country, in housing

and urban development. So, I am pleased to be able to be here and

support Ms. Patenaude.

Thank you.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you.

Now we will go ahead and ask the witness to stand and raise

your right hand.

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to

give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so

help you God?

Ms. PATENAUDE. I do.

Senator ALLARD. Do you agree to appear and testify before any

duly-constituted committee of the Senate?

Ms. PATENAUDE. I do.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you.

We would be glad to hear from you now, and if there are any

other members of your family that you would like to introduce—

it sounds like they are pretty familiar to the Committee already—

you are certainly welcome to make that introduction at this time.

6

STATEMENT OF PAMELA HUGHES PATENAUDE

OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY

FOR COMMUNITY PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

Ms. PATENAUDE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member

Sarbanes, and distinguished Members of the Committee. It is an

honor and a privilege to appear before you today as President

Bush’s nominee for Assistant Secretary for the Office of Community Planning and Development at the Department of Housing and

Urban Development. Thank you, Senator Sununu and Senator

Dole, for your very kind words of introduction. I would also like to

thank Congressman Bradley for his well wishes, too. I am delighted to introduce my wonderful family, whose love and support

has helped make this day possible—my husband Chuck; our three

beautiful daughters, Caitlin, Meghan, and Jennifer; my mom and

dad, Bob and Estella Hughes; my brother Kevin; and my cousins

Judy and Caroline Wenners. I also want to thank the many colleagues and friends who are here with me today.

President Bush and Secretary Jackson have built a tremendously

qualified team at HUD, and it has been an honor to serve with

these talented individuals over the last 3 years. If confirmed, I will

be fortunate to be following in the footsteps of Deputy Secretary

Bernardi, whose leadership in CPD has been outstanding. I hope

to build on his achievements and look forward to working with the

many fine professionals in the Office of Community Planning and

Development.

As the Assistant Deputy Secretary for Field Policy and Management, I provide the leadership and oversight of the Department’s

80 field offices. Those field office are making considerable progress

in achieving two very important goals—increasing minority homeownership and ending chronic homelessness.

Under the President’s homeownership agenda and the leadership

of this Committee, for the first time in our Nation’s history, more

than 50 percent of minority families are proud homeowners. Also,

we have reached a record level of homeownership overall. Today,

nearly 70 percent of American families own their own home.

Progress is being made, but the minority homeownership gap remains, and it is far too wide.

President Bush has also challenged the Nation to end chronic

homelessness by the year 2012. Last year, HUD distributed a

record $1.3 billion in competitive homeless assistance grants. These

grants for housing and services are helping 700,000 individuals

begin their journey to a place they can call home.

I share the President’s commitment to homeownership as the key

to stronger, healthier communities and financial independence. I

am also here today to assure the Committee of my ability to fulfill

the duties as Assistant Secretary for the Office of Community Planning and Development.

As you have heard, I bring 22 years of experience in housing and

economic development. I have an understanding of the HUD organizational structure and programs, and a genuine appreciation and

respect for the policymaking and oversight of the Congress.

As you heard from Chairman Allard, my deep commitment to the

mission of HUD was ignited during my college internship more

7

than 20 years ago. I have the enthusiasm, leadership qualities, and

track record to make an immediate and positive contribution as the

Assistant Secretary for the Office of Community Planning and Development.

I am sincerely grateful to President Bush and Secretary Jackson

for the trust they have placed in me. If confirmed, I will honor this

trust through commitment, tenacity, and a steadfast sense of duty.

I pledge to work in concert with this Committee in promoting accountability in meeting the needs of our Nation. My heartfelt

thanks to all of you for affording me this opportunity today.

Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to answer any questions you

may have.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you for your statement.

I am going to start off with the American Dream Downpayment

Act.

As you are well aware, last year, it was signed into law and implemented. So, I am just interested in a status report—where are

we in implementing the programs related to that American Dream

Downpayment Act? Right now it is a top priority of the Administration. Do you believe that that should continue as a top priority? If

you could talk about that a little bit, I would appreciate it.

Ms. PATENAUDE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

As you know because you were there for the bill-signing, President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act into law

in December of 2003. I am very happy to report today that the fine

career staff at HUD worked very diligently to get the rule published, and in late May/early June, the funds were distributed to

participating jurisdictions, and today more than 1,600 families

have benefitted from the American Dream Downpayment Act and

are proud homeowners.

As to whether or not it should continue to be a priority, yes, I

feel very strongly that homeownership should be a top priority.

Senator ALLARD. Okay. The other issue that I wanted to bring

up is the CDBG formula.

As you are very much aware, two programs that have the largest

formula distribution programs at HUD are the CDBG dollars, as

well as HOME. I personally support the formula-based programs

because they do provide the local flexibility and some predictability.

However, some questions have been raised regarding the formula

factors. As a matter of fact, HUD is currently studying alternative

formula factors.

My question is when can we expect the report, and are you willing to work with the Congress to carefully evaluate the factors, including their fairness to different regions of the country?

Ms. PATENAUDE. Mr. Chairman, I am aware of the study. I understand that the draft study is under consideration by my colleague, the newly appointed Assistant Secretary, Donna Shea. I am

not familiar with the contents of the study at this time, but I can

assure you that I will work very closely with you and this Committee in evaluating any suggestions or improvements that can be

made to the formula allocation.

Senator ALLARD. Each question I have gets a little tougher. The

third one that I do want to give you an opportunity to answer is

8

on those programs that relate to the homeless—and you used some

of the homeless figures in your comments here to the Committee.

But they have a number of programs that have been designed for

the homeless, and there is some concern that has been expressed

about some of them being duplicative, and as a result of that, several different members have proposed consolidating HUD’s homeless programs.

Members of this Committee and, I think, the Administration are

searching to see if there is a compromise on how some of the programs may be consolidated and structured to better serve the

homeless. My question is would you give us some comments on

that, and are you willing to work with us to find a way to better

serve the homeless?

Ms. PATENAUDE. I am familiar with the efforts underway between HUD and Members of the Committee to consolidate the

three competitive homeless programs, and I very much favor that

to help our communities streamline these applications and to reduce the burdens.

Senator ALLARD. The Office of Management and Budget recently

rated the CDBG program as ineffective and that the program suffered from unclear purpose, loose targeting requirements, and lack

of results. Could you please elaborate on OMB’s concerns?

Ms. PATENAUDE. Mr. Chairman, I have not seen it, although I

aware of this rating, ‘‘moderately effective,’’ that the CDBG program was rated by OMB using the PART assessment tool.

I am not sure that there was enough information—perhaps there

was a lack of data—and I understand that the people in CPD are

working closely with OMB at this time.

Senator ALLARD. Yes, I think it has a lot of strong support here

in the Congress, and I think that we can hopefully get some cooperation working with you on how we can best address any problems that might be brought by the OMB report. I think it is highly

unlikely that there will be any real drastic changes, but I do think

it is something that we need to look at. We need to look at the

OMB report. And in our budget process now, we are beginning to

have more feedback because of the results program that we have

in place about how various agencies are able to set goals and meet

the objectives of those goals.

So, I will look forward to working with you, and I think the

Chairman will look forward to working with you, too, on that.

My time has expired, and I will call on Senator Sarbanes for his

questions.

Senator SARBANES. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Patenaude, in your opening statement, you talked about the

goal of expanding homeownership, which I think we all share, and

also the goal of ending homelessness, obviously a critical objective.

I do not think most homeless people are automatically positioned

to move from homelessness to homeownership. It seems to me we

need an adequate rental housing program to assure that low-income people have stable, affordable, and safe housing options.

What is your view on the importance of affordable rental housing, and how does rental housing fit in with the mission of the Office of Community Planning and Development?

Ms. PATENAUDE. Thank you, Senator, for the question.

9

As you know, the HOME Program can be and is used very often

for the production of affordable housing, as well as the Community

Development Block Grant Program.

I certainly agree that there is a need for affordable housing.

In regard to the homeless question, we are working very closely

with the newly revived Interagency Homeless Council, working

with States and cities to help them create their own 10-year plans

to deal with homelessness in their communities.

Senator SARBANES. Do you see rental housing as an important

vehicle by which to get from homelessness eventually, perhaps, to

homeownership?

Ms. PATENAUDE. I think it is one option.

Senator SARBANES. What are the others?

Ms. PATENAUDE. To move to permanent housing.

Senator SARBANES. Permanent homeownership, or rental? I

guess the question I am asking is how realistic is it to think we

can move people from homelessness to homeownership without

transitioning them through other stages which would involve, presumably, rental housing.

Ms. PATENAUDE. Well, certainly our goal is to move them out of

shelters into suitable housing. And with the help of the Interagency

Council, we are working very, very closely with other Cabinet departments to provide the services that these individuals need.

Senator SARBANES. I would observe that I think both the Homeless Assistance funds and, as you note, the HOME funds can be

used on rental housing, and I think we need to keep that in mind

as we try to accomplish this transition, as we try to move people

out of homelessness into permanent housing, but which in my view

would generally have to be rental housing, at least in the initial

stages. Otherwise, I think it is very difficult to accomplish that.

One of the challenges that HUD faces in the coming years is an

aging workforce. Many of the experts that HUD relies on will soon

be eligible for retirement. Now, you are one of those experts, but

you are not near eligible for retirement yet. But what are your

comments about this problem? What can HUD do to ensure an adequate and skilled workforce in the future?

Ms. PATENAUDE. Thank you, Senator Sarbanes.

I believe that Secretary Jackson is very well aware of the succession issue at HUD and is working very closely with the Assistant

Secretaries in the Office of Community Planning and Development.

They already have a leadership program underway. We have aggressively recruited Presidential Management Interns, which I believe are now referred to as Presidential Management Fellows.

The Career Intern Program was reinstated at HUD, and we just

graduated our first class of over 150 interns who went through a

2-year training program, and many of these individuals already

had experience in the private sector and the nonprofit sector.

We also had a very active college internship program this summer, and I feel that that is a wonderful way to recruit young men

and women into public service.

Senator SARBANES. You did this first training program for the

field offices—the National Management Training Symposium for

your 700 managers and executives. What did you draw from that

in terms of the future for HUD, in terms of the people who are

10

down the line working for HUD, and what do you think the prospects are?

Ms. PATENAUDE. The first training that was conducted in December 2002 was to launch our new Strategic Plan, as required under

the GPRA or the Results Act. I believe it was very, very effective.

It was an opportunity for Secretary Martinez to lay out his agenda.

The followup training that was conducted in May of this year

was an opportunity to look back and see if in fact we were effective

and are effective in promoting the goals of our Strategic Plan. It

was also a tremendous communication opportunity for the managers and executives in the field to work with the managers and

executives in headquarters.

Senator SARBANES. What was the reading you took of the quality

of people you have out in the field?

Ms. PATENAUDE. I am very, very proud. Many of them are here,

sitting behind me. I think we have some of the best and the brightest at HUD and very, very dedicated professionals in the field.

Senator SARBANES. I noticed in looking at the questionnaire you

submitted to the Committee, where they ask about services rendered to all political parties or election committees during the last

10 years, you have been quite active. Actually, I think that is a

good thing. I like to see people participate in the political process.

But the question I want to put to you is whether you are able to

separate your political involvements from the substance of the

work you have to do at the Department, because obviously, you will

be supervising and working with people who may hold different political views, may not have any political views at all, may not really

be into the political process.

So the question is on the one hand, are you able to undertake

this political activism but not bring it over into the work environment where, of course, you need to act in an entirely different context? Has that at any point been a problem for you and would you

foresee it being a problem?

Ms. PATENAUDE. Senator, at a very young age, my parents encouraged me to get involved in the democracy of our country, and

I have enjoyed being involved in political campaigns. I have never

let it interfere with my professional activity at work, and I feel that

I have been able to manage my professional life, my personal life

as a mother, and my limited political activities. Certainly since I

arrived in Washington in August 2001, my time has been very limited with outside activities. And I can assure you I will never let

my political philosophies interfere with being fair with the taxpayers’ money.

Senator ALLARD. Senator Sarbanes, your time has expired. I do

not know how many more questions you have.

Senator SARBANES. I have one more, if I could, Mr. Chairman.

Senator ALLARD. Is that okay with you, Senator Sununu?

Senator SUNUNU. Yes. Go ahead.

Senator ALLARD. Senator Sarbanes.

Senator SARBANES. I appreciate that answer. I think it is very

important, and I think we need to be clear that we welcome the

political activity, but it cannot be brought over into the substantive

area of professionalism with respect to the work of the Department.

11

In the past, Members of this Committee, including myself, have

on occasion faced unnecessary delays in getting critical information

from HUD when we have made requests for data on program and

budget information. Do we have your commitment that you will

provide information to Members of the Committee regarding program operations, management, and other information which is relevant to the Committee’s oversight activities without undue delay?

Ms. PATENAUDE. Absolutely. I will commit to this Committee to

be responsive in a timely fashion and work closely with our Office

of Congressional Relations in responding to requests from this

Committee.

Senator SARBANES. Good.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you.

Senator SARBANES. Senator Sununu, thank you very much for

letting me continue.

Senator ALLARD. Senator Sununu.

Senator SUNUNU. My pleasure.

I do want to begin by underscoring the point made by Senator

Sarbanes about the distinction between two important issues that

we deal with, one, homelessness, and two, homeownership.

With regard to homelessness, as the nominee, Pamela

Patenaude, has indicated, there are a number of different options

and programs that are out there that can address the homelessness

issue—rental-based programs, Section 8 programs, voucher-based

programs, group homes—but I think it is important to recognize

that with all of these options, those that are most successful tend

to be community-based, and that is why I think it is important, as

Chairman Allard has indicated, that we look at ways where appropriate to consolidate this funding and get it to the local level so

that different types of approaches to deal with homelessness can be

developed.

With respect to homeownership, I think our goal, whether you

are in subsidized housing or not, is to move from the rental situation to an equity situation where you can build financial equity and

the security that comes from homeownership. And I certainly hope

and feel confident that our nominee will do that.

I want to ask one question, or ask you to describe one particular

thing for us, and that is to talk a little bit about your experience

in the field and in your current position. Could you discuss for us

what you have learned from that and any observations or skills

that you hope to bring from the field management role to Community Planning and Development?

Ms. PATENAUDE. Thank you, Senator Sununu.

I have had a wonderful opportunity to work with the field for

over 3 years now, and in my previous time at HUD, I also worked

with the field. When Secretary Martinez and Secretary Jackson arrived at HUD, they found that there was little support for the field,

if you will, from a decisionmaking standpoint. They made the decision that it was very, very important for the local HUD offices to

be able to make decisions based on the needs of the community.

I am happy to report that that is happening today, and I hope

that the relationship that I built with the Office of Field Policy and

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Management will help me to establish a strong bond with the Community Planning and Development directors in the field.

Senator SUNUNU. Thank you very much.

I do not want to belabor the Committee. I think my strong sentiments toward the nominee are well-known.

I want to wish Pamela great success in the job.

I know that Mrs. Dole had a meeting in the Majority Leader’s

office, but I do want to join with her in encouraging the fastest possible consideration when we have a well-qualified candidate and a

relatively noncontroversial post. I hope we can move this nomination forward, and I am willing to do anything necessary to help the

Committee complete that work.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Pamela and the Hughes family, and thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator ALLARD. Thank you, Senator Sununu.

Senator Sarbanes do you have any more questions?

Senator SARBANES. No.

Senator ALLARD. I have just one that I would like to follow up

with, and it is on results and performance-based measurements.

You will be dealing a lot with local governments and private contractors and so on. Have you given some thought to how you can

put together a management program where you can get some

measure of performance from these individuals who are managing

the grants so that you can pass your results and successes on to

the Congress—or failures on to the Congress—through the reporting process that is now currently in place?

Ms. PATENAUDE. As you know, our Strategic Plan—every year,

we have an Annual Performance Plan, and from that document, we

have an internal management tool, the Management Plan. The

Management Plan is used to track our achievements at HUD. And

with regard to external partners, I will commit to work very, very

hard to make sure that there is accountability.

Senator ALLARD. I do think it is important that you do work with

them, and I guess it can be carried to extreme, but on the other

hand, I think we do have a responsibility on this side to make sure

that programs function the way they are set up to function and

that the taxpayer’s dollar is not wasted and that we have a way

of holding you accountable, because taxpayers and the American

public will hold us accountable, too.

So, having said that, if there are no other questions from the

Committee, I want to thank you, Pam, for taking the time to be

before this Committee, and thank you for being willing to serve in

this position. I think you bring a wealth of experience and look forward to working with you when—and I expect that you will be confirmed by the full Senate.

So again thank you, and I thank the Members of the Committee

for their questions.

With that, we will adjourn the hearing.

[Whereupon, at 3:10 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

[The biographical sketch of the nominee supplied for the record

follows:]

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