BOARD MEETING

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

AIR RESOURCES BOARD

JOE SERNA, JR. BUILDING

CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

BYRON SHER AUDITORIUM, SECOND FLOOR

1001 I STREET

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 12, 2008

8:30 A.M.

TIFFANY C. KRAFT, CSR, RPR

CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER

LICENSE NUMBER 12277

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345ii

APPEARANCES

BOARD MEMBERS

Ms. Mary D. Nichols, Chairperson

Dr. John R. Balmes

Ms. Sandra Berg

Ms. Dorene D'Adamo

Mr. Ronald O. Loveridge

Mrs. Barbara Riordan

Mr. Ron Roberts

Mr. Daniel Sperling

Mr. John Telles

STAFF

Mr. James Goldstene, Executive Officer

Mr. Tom Cackette, Chief Deputy Executive Officer

Ms. Ellen Peter, Chief Counsel

Mr. Michael Scheible, Deputy Executive Officer

Ms. Lynn Terry, Deputy Executive Officer

Ms. Kathleen Quetin, Ombudsman

Mr. Michael Benjamin, Chief, Mobile Source Analysis Branch

Mr. Tony Brasil, In-Use Control Measures Section, MSCD

Mr. Michael Carter, Chief, Emission Research and

Regulatory Development Branch, MSCD

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345iii

APPEARANCES CONTINUED

STAFF

Mr. Jack Kitowski, Chief, On-Road Control REgulations

Branch, MSCD

Mr. Kevin Kennedy, Chief, Program Evaluation Branch

Mr. Stephan Lemieux, On-Road Heavy Duty Diesel Section,

MSCD

Ms. Gloria Lindner, In-Use Control Measures Section,

Mobile Source Control Division, MSCD

Mr. Chuck Shulock, Chief, Office of Climate Change

Ms. Monica Vejar, Board Clerk

Mr. Eric White, Chief, Heavy Duty Diesel In-Use Strategies

Branch, MSCD

ALSO PRESENT

Mr. Andy Acott

Ms. Vania Ahamdi, Healthy 880 Committee

Mr. Don Anair, Union of Concerned Scientists

Mr. Eric Arriola, East Yards

Mr. David Atwater, Van De Pol Enterprises, Inc.

Mr. Steve Azevedo, Knife River Corp.

Dr. John Balbus, Environmetal Defense Fund

Ms. Sharon Banks, Cascade Sierra Solutions

Ms. Diane Bailey, NRDC

Ms. Nidia Bautista, Coalition for Clean Air

Mr. Rick Bettis, Breathe CA

Mr. Brian Beveridge, West Oakland Indicators Project

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APPEARANCES CONTINUED

ALSO PRESENT

Ms. Liza Bolanol, Central Valley Air Quality Coalition

Mr. Skip Brown, Delta Construction Company

Mr. Paul Buttner, CA Rice Commission

Mr. Brian Cohen

Mr. Michael Collier, CC Matthes, Inc.

Ms. Christine Cordero, Center for Environmental Health

Mr. Michael Cuhna, Nisei Farmers League

Ms. Lan Dahn, Southwest Transportation

Mr. Irvin Dawid

Mr. Brian Davis, Breathe CA

Mr. William Davis, Southern CA Contractors Association

Ms. Glenda Deloney, CBD

Mr. Dennis Downing, Downing Trucking

Ms. Tiana Drisker, CBD

Mr. Brad Edgar, Cleaire Advanced Emission Control

Mr. Sean Edgar, Clean Fleets Coalition

Mr. Joel Errice, Regional Asthma Management and Prevention

Mr. Allen Faris, Allen Faris Trucking

Mr. Ron Faulkner, Faulkner Trucking

Ms. Christine Foster, Tulare County Asthma Coalition and

CAFA

Mr. Randal Friedman, US Navy

Ms. Laura Fultz Stout, Coalition for Clean Air

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APPEARANCES CONTINUED

ALSO PRESENT

Ms. Catherine Garoupa, Madera Coalition for Community

Justice

Mr. Bill Gassaway, low impact logging

Ms. Jill Gayaldo, Elk Grove Unified School District

Mr. Tim Gibbs, National Parks Conservation Association

Mr. Larry Green, Air Quality Sacramento AQMD

Mr. Mark Griffin, Matthew Griffin Trucking

Ms. Jacquie Hansen, Breathe CA

Ms. Susan Jones, D&S Trucking, CDTOA

Ms. Deborah Jordan, US EPA

Mr. Jeremy Jungreis, Marine Corps Installations West

Mr. Andy Katz, Breathe CA

Ms. Melissa Kelly-Ortega, Health Advocate

Mr. Ray Kidd

Ms. Janice Kim, American Academy of Pediatrics

Mr. Camron King, CA Association of Winegrape Growers

Ms. Susan King, CA Nurses Association

Mr. Brandon Kitagawa, Community Action to Fight Asthma

Mr. Alek Kress, ESA

Ms. Camille Kustin, Environmental Defense

Mr. Martin Lassen, Johnson Matthey Catalysts

Ms. Anna Lee, CBE

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APPEARANCES CONTINUED

ALSO PRESENT

Mr. Michael Lewis, Construction Industry Air Quality

Coalition

Mr. Angelo Logan, East Yard Communities

Mr. Felipe Lopez, Consejo de Federaciones de Estados

Mexicanas

Mr. Tony Luiz, T&L Trucking

Mr. Michael Mach, Oakland High

Mr. Bill Magavern, Sierra Club CA

Mr. Dennis MacFarland

Mr. Mark Matheson, Matheson Trucking

Dr. Richard McCann, Aspen Environmental Group

Mr. Gavin Hugh, CMTA

Mr. Robert Meagher, Sierra Sacramento Valley Medical

Society

Ms. Cheryl Moore, POB 390

Mr. Brent Newell, Center on Race, Poverty, and the

Environment

Mr. David Norris, Lakeport Unified School District

Ms. Blanca Nunez, Pacoima Beautiful

Ms. Marybelle Nzegwu, Center on Race, Poverty, andthe

Environment

Mr. Jason Osborn, Manteca Unified School District

Mr. Josh Pane, CAL Bus Association

Mr. Michael Paparian, CA Pollution Control Financing

Authority

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APPEARANCES CONTINUED

ALSO PRESENT

Mr. Greg Pile, Chaparral Honey, Inc.

Ms. Patti Pirkle, Pirkle Trucking & Equipment Rental, Inc.

Mr. John Pitta, John Pitta Trucking

Ms. Betty Plowman, CDTOA

Ms. Gale Plummer, Cleaire Advanced Emission Controls

Mr. Nick Pfeifer, Granite Construction, Inc.

Ms. Carol Pruett, CDTOA

Mr. Angel Raposa, CDTOA

Ms. Jill Ratner, Rose Foundation

Ms. Mary-Michal Rawling, Golden Valley Health Centers

Mr. Charlie Rea, CalCIMA

Mr. Michael Rea, West County Transportation Agency

Mr. Sean Realite

Ms. Betsy Reifsnider, Catholic Charities Diocese of

Stockton

Mr. Stephen Rhoades, Kings Canyon, Riverside County

Schools

Mr. Steve Roberts, STR Transport

Mr. Larry Robinson, Mark Stein Beverage Company

Mr. Lowell Robinson, Robinson Ent., Inc.

Ms. Stephanie Roche, Mike Roche, Inc.

Ms. Kathy Rose, Nose Cone, Aerodynamics

Ms. Jenny Saklar, Fresno Metro Ministry

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APPEARANCES CONTINUED

ALSO PRESENT

Ms. Anna Sanchez, MMCAC

Ms. Sofia Sarabia, CRPE

Mr. Dan Sartell, Button Transportation

Mr. Eric Sauer, CTA

Ms. Julie Sauls, CTA

Mr. Paul Schlenvogt, Blue Sky Bee

Mr. Jason Schmelzer, Cal Chamber

Mr. Steve Shamp, Customer Truck Service

Mr. Charlie Simpson, EM Tharp, Inc.

Mr. Mark Sisco

Mr. Daniel Speth, DLS Trucking

Ms. Melissa Stephens, American Lung Association

Mr. Dick Stuart, Maxim Crane Works

Ms. Luz Elena Tafalla, Consejo de Federaciones de Estados

Mexicanos

Mr. Mario Talavera, Latinos Unidos Concientizados al

Ambiente

Mr. Bill Terrell, Genesis Construction

Mr. Michael Tunnell, American Trucking Association

Mr. Jorge Villanueva, Pacoima Beautiful

Mr. Mike Waters, CA Business Association

Mr. Steve Weitekamp, CMSA

Mr. Ed Welch, Save the Air in Nevada County

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APPEARANCES CONTINUED

ALSO PRESENT

Mr. Bruce Wick, CA Professional Association of Specialty

Contractors

Ms. Marie Witte, Mike Roche, Inc.

Mr. Marshall Woodmansee

Ms. Sophia Woodmanse

Ms. Tessa Woodmansee

Mr. Denny Wyatt, APEX Bulk Commodities

Mr. John Yandell, Yandell Truckaway, Inc.

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INDEX

PAGE

Item 08-11-3 and 08-11-4

Mr. Newell 6

Ms. Jordan 9

Mr. Robinson 11

Mr. Meagher 13

Mr. Yandell 14

Mr. Logan 17

Mr. Tunnell 18

Mr. Lassen 20

Ms. Kelly-Ortega 21

Ms. Raposa 22

Dr. Balbus 24

Mr. Kitagawa 26

Mr. Pfeifer 28

Mr. Pane 29

Mr. Waters 30

Mr. Faris 32

Mr. Errice 34

Mr. Wyatt 36

Ms. Stephens 37

Mr. Speth 38

Ms. Pirkle 41

Mr. Pitta 42

Mr. Downing 44

Ms. Garoupa 46

Ms. Nzegwu 47

Ms. Bailey 48

Mr. Terrell 51

Ms. Jones 53

Ms. Bolanol 55

Mr. Jungreis 56

Mr. Friedman 58

Mr. Luiz 59

Mr. Wick 61

Mr. Brown 69

Mr. Arriola 71

Ms. Plowman 72

Ms. Woodmansee 73

Mr. Acott 75

Mr. Norris 76

Mr. Rea 78

Mr. Anair 79

Ms. Sanchez 81

Ms. Rawling 82

Ms. King 84

Ms. Saklar 84

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INDEX CONTINUED

PAGE

Mr. Talavera 84

Ms. King 85

Mr. Paparian 86

Ms. Sharpe 89

Mr. Sartell 92

Mr. Cohen 94

Ms. Pruett 96

Ms. Reifsnider 98

Mr. Dawid 99

Mr. Shamp 101

Ms. Sarabia 102

Mr. Magavern 103

Mr. Pile 104

Mr. Katz 106

Ms. Ahamdi 108

Ms. Cordero 109

Mr. Atwater 110

Ms. Rose 112

Ms. Lee 114

Mr. Faulkner 115

Ms. Deloney 117

Ms. Drisker 118

Mr. Schmelzer 120

Mr. Davis 122

Mr. Welch 124

Ms. Moore 125

Ms. Kustin 126

Mr. Beveridge 128

Mr. Gassaway 130

Mr. Stuart 131

Mr. Robinson 132

Mr. Edgar 133

Mr. Rhoades 135

Ms. Plummer 135

Mr. Green 137

Mr. Mach 137

Ms. Ratner 138

Mr. Roberts 142

Ms. Nunez 143

Mr. Villanueva 144

Mr. Azevedo 146

Mr. Bettis 147

Mr. Weitekamp 148

Mr. Cuhna 150

Mr. MacFarland 152

Ms. Dahn 152

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INDEX CONTINUED

PAGE

Mr. Kress 153

Mr. Simpson 154

Mr. Collier 156

Mr. Buttner 157

Ms. Fultz Stout 159

Mr. Matheson 161

Mr. Lopez 162

Mr. Rea 163

Ms. Tafalla 164

Dr. McCann 165

Mr. McHugh 167

Mr. Sisco 168

Mr. Osborn 168

Mr. Rhoades 170

Ms. Foster 171

Ms. Hansen 172

Mr. Sauer 173

Ms. Sauls 174

Mr. Woodmansee 175

Ms. Woodmansee 176

Ms. Gayaldo 176

Mr. Kidd 178

Mr. Griffin 179

Mr. Lewis 180

Board Member Roberts 182

Mr. Schlenvogt 185

Mr. Davis 187

Ms. Bautista 189

Mr. Edgar 191

Ms. Banks 193

Ms. Kim 198

Mr. Realite 200

Mr. Gibbs 200

Ms. Witte 201

Ms. Roche 203

Board Discussion 204

Motion 261

Vote 283

Item 08-11-3 and 08-11-4

Motion 284

Vote 285

Adjournment 285

Reporter's Certificate 286

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-23451

1 PROCEEDINGS

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Good morning, ladies and

3 gentlemen. We have a very full agenda today. And we have

4 been figuring out how we can organize our work most

5 efficiently.

6 First of all, welcome to the second day of the

7 last Board meeting of 2008 and the continuation of our

8 hearing on the truck rule.

9 Before we get down to business, including taking

10 the roll and doing the Pledge which we start the day with,

11 I just want to do a couple of procedural quick things

12 because I know people are getting assembled here.

13 So the first is to tell anybody who is waiting

14 for this that we have moved the item that was on our

15 agenda for today dealing with the report to the

16 Legislature on our implementation of AB 233, which is the

17 report on the Board's enforcement of all of our rules

18 relating to diesels, to January. That item will not be

19 heard today. Our total attention is going to be devoted

20 to these two rules.

21 Second is to tell you that although the

22 announcement said we would begin and immediately adjourn

23 to have Board members take a brief tour downstairs to 11th

24 Street and to have an opportunity to actually look at some

25 of the technology that's being discussed here on some

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-23452

1 trucks, that we're going to start to hearing and do the

2 tour during a break a little later on this morning so that

3 everybody gets a chance to get started. And I think we'll

4 make more progress that way.

5 The third thing is I want to introduce you to two

6 staff people from our Ombudsman office, Kathleen Quetin

7 and Phil Loder, who will waive their hands. Their job

8 today is going to be to managers of the testimony list and

9 to make sure that people are up at the podium in front of

10 the microphone at their time to testify. We're going to

11 ask you to come up in groups of five at a time, line up

12 five deep in front of the microphone and be ready to speak

13 when your turn comes. Everybody will get their two

14 minutes that way, but we won't be using up the extra two

15 minutes it's been taking to get people out of their

16 chairs, into the room, and in place. I think this will

17 get us through the whole list more expeditiously and

18 everybody will get a chance to speak.

19 So I just really want to thank you for your

20 cooperation. It went really well yesterday. And to ask

21 you to cooperate with these two Board staff members to

22 make this all flow very smoothly.

23 And now having gotten your attention, if I could

24 ask you to please stand up and face the flag.

25 (Thereupon the Pledge of Allegiance was

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-23453

1 Recited in unison.)

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

3 Also as part of the opening announcements here, I

4 did this yesterday, but I need to say again since many of

5 you were not here.

6 We have translation services available today in

7 both Spanish and Punjabi. And we have headsets available

8 in the back I believe. So that anyone who wants to listen

9 to the proceedings being translated into either Spanish or

10 Punjabi can do so. And if you wish to have the assistance

11 of a translator in giving your testimony or translating

12 your testimony, we can do that as well.

13 And now they will repeat this announcement in

14 those two languages.

15 (Thereupon the announcement was translated into

16 Spanish and Punjabi.)

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. I believe this

18 morning the staff wishes to pass on any further comments.

19 They have been preparing responses to some questions that

20 Board members raised yesterday. But they'll be bringing

21 those back later in the day, and we'll just get started

22 with the public testimony at this time.

23 If we can begin with the first group of

24 witnesses, we would appreciate it.

25 Oh, call the roll. Okay. We can call the roll.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-23454

1 Sure. Let's call the roll.

2 BOARD CLERK VEJAR: Dr. Balmes?

3 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Here.

4 BOARD CLERK VEJAR: Ms. Berg?

5 Ms. D'Adamo?

6 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Here.

7 BOARD CLERK VEJAR: Ms. Kennard?

8 Mayor Loveridge?

9 Mrs. Riordan?

10 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Here.

11 BOARD CLERK VEJAR: Supervisor Roberts?

12 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Here.

13 BOARD CLERK VEJAR: Professor Sperling?

14 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Here.

15 BOARD CLERK VEJAR: Dr. Telles?

16 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Here.

17 BOARD CLERK VEJAR: Chairman Nichols?

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Here.

19 BOARD CLERK VEJAR: Madam Chairman, we have a

20 quorum.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

22 And for anyone who may be wondering who was

23 watching yesterday, we've been joined today by Board

24 Member Barbara Riordan who was at her -- your office

25 yesterday watching this proceeding on the web cast. And

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1 she has followed all the testimony on this rulemaking.

2 And we're happy to have her here today. And she'll be

3 able to vote on the end.

4 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Thank you, Madam Chairman.

5 One thing I did learn and it might be helpful for

6 all of you to know, those of you who are testifying are

7 speaking as we do as staff members and Board members,

8 speak into the microphone. Because there were times when

9 people obviously had moved away from the microphone and

10 you simply could not hear over the webcast. But you could

11 get the gist of it. But it really is important to speak

12 into the microphone.

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

14 I think these microphones are designed not to

15 pick up all the noise in the room, which is good. But it

16 means you really have to be right in front mike to be

17 heard.

18 Okay. Are we ready now? Do we have a list of

19 witnesses? We do. I have it in front of me. All right.

20 Melissa Kelly-Ortega. Can we get started with the rest of

21 this group?

22 MS. SHARPE: She's not here yet. I believe she's

23 engine route from Merced. I heard she's on 9th Street.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Since this is a new process

25 here, we'll just give her a pass.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-23456

1 Mark Handle.

2 I'm going to read this whole list, and please

3 come forward if you're here. Mark Handle, Brett Newell,

4 Deborah Jordan, Larry Robinson.

5 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Maybe read down to

6 ten and everybody can line themselves up.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: After Brent, who I see is

8 here and Deborah Jordan, who I see is here, Larry

9 Robinson, Robert Meagher, Jenny Saklar, Kevin Hamilton,

10 Mario Talavera, John Yandell, please come on down to the

11 front all of those people whose names I've just read.

12 Thank you.

13 Mr. Newell, there may be a prize for being first.

14 MR. NEWELL: I don't see any pretzels up here.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: They disappeared.

16 MR. NEWELL: Madam Chairs, members of the Board,

17 please don't use my time while I turn off my phone.

18 Thank you. And good morning.

19 What I wanted to talk about was the importance of

20 how this rule meets SIP commitments and the promises that

21 this Board makes to achieve ambient air quality standards.

22 What's been discussed are the SIP commitments the 2007

23 ozone plan.

24 What I want to discuss this morning are those

25 promised made five years ago in 2003 to meet the one-hour

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-23457

1 ozone standard, the one-hour ozone standard which is past

2 fast approaching. In South Coast and San Joaquin Valley,

3 scores of violations have occurred, and those air basins

4 won't attain that standard.

5 So why does this rule have any relevance to the

6 one-hour standard? Well, three years ago the Board

7 adopted two resolutions, 03-22 and 03-23, both of which

8 committed to significant mobile source reductions so the

9 South Coast air basin would attain the one-hour ozone

10 standard before 2010.

11 Those promises were admitted by staff in a

12 February letter to EPA not met and were supposed to be for

13 diesel controls. The regulation today does not deliver

14 reductions before 2010. It should in order to meet this

15 Board's earlier commitments. This regulation should

16 deliver reductions for the South Coast air basin before

17 2010.

18 The Board has never revoked Resolutions 03-22 and

19 03-23. Specifically, in Resolution 03-23, the Board

20 withheld authority from the Executive Officer to weaken

21 the strategy for the South Coast. So staff never had

22 authority to not propose those regulations to the Board

23 for adoption.

24 What are the consequences of not adhering to

25 those resolutions? Well, the public isn't benefiting from

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-23458

1 significant ozone and PM2.5 forming emission reductions.

2 Stationary sources in the South Coast and the San Joaquin

3 Valley, when there is the failure to attain, will pay

4 stationary source fees under Section 185 of the Clean Air

5 Act.

6 I notice Mayor Loveridge isn't here yet this

7 morning. But on Friday, they had a hearing to adopt that

8 rule in the South Coast. And the Board did not have a

9 majority to adopt the rule. The rule would impose between

10 24 and $36 million annually on fees as stationary sources.

11 Stationary sources that have done their part to reduce

12 emissions. Where this Board hasn't done its part to

13 reduce mobile source emissions to help that air basin

14 attain; 24 to $36 million a year.

15 So to the trucking advocates here that are

16 calling for a weaker rule, I say to you, you're getting

17 off pretty easy. Because this regulation should be much

18 more stringent and help the South Coast air basin reduce

19 hundreds of tons of mobile source reductions.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm sorry. Turns out our

21 timer is not working.

22 MR. NEWELL: I'll keep talking.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm sure you will, but

24 unfortunately I can't let do you that. If you can just

25 complete your sentence, we're going to have to call a

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-23459

1 halt.

2 MR. NEWELL: In conclusion, this Board is going

3 to adopt a resolution today. It adopted a very important

4 resolution yesterday to address greenhouse gas reductions.

5 What confidence does the public have in this Board's

6 resolutions and this Board's will if it doesn't honor its

7 own resolutions.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

9 Okay. Deborah Jordan.

10 MR. NEWELL: I have postcards.

11 MS. JORDAN: Good morning, Chairman Nichols and

12 members of the Board.

13 I'm Deborah Jordan, the Air Director for U.S.

14 EPA's Regional Office in San Francisco.

15 I appreciate the opportunity to come before you

16 to support the adoption of the proposed in-use truck and

17 bus rule this morning.

18 The Clean Air Act provides EPA and the State

19 joint responsibility for protecting the public's health.

20 Did my mike go out?

21 The Clean Air Act provides EPA and the State

22 joint responsibility for protecting the public's health.

23 EPA is responsible for setting health-based ambient

24 standards for pollutants such as ozone and particulate

25 matter for issuing emissions standards for many sources of

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234510

1 air pollution.

2 States must develop implementation plans that

3 demonstrate how they will control air pollution and how

4 they will achieve the health-based standards.

5 Over the past year, California has submitted to

6 EPA plans to meet the federal ozone and fine partical

7 standards in the South Coast and the San Joaquin Valley.

8 These plans show both areas which are home to more than 19

9 million of the state's residents need additional

10 significant reductions in NOx and PM2.5 to meet the

11 ambient standards and to protect the public's health.

12 Without the reductions from the proposed in-use diesel

13 rule, the California State Implementation Plan will not

14 demonstrate attainment of the health-based standards and

15 will not provide Californians the clean air they deserve.

16 EPA has issued national rules to cut emissions

17 from new on-road and non-road engines by more than 90

18 percent by combining stringent emissions standards for

19 diesel engines with clean diesel fuel.

20 EPA standards help to ensure basic health and

21 protect environmental protection for all of us, but they

22 do not apply to trucks already on the road. Congress gave

23 EPA very limited authority in the Clean Air Act to control

24 emissions from in-use mobile sources.

25 US EPA and California have to same goals:

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234511

1 Protecting public health and the environment. The country

2 continues to look to California for its expertise, its

3 technical advancements, and its forward thinking in

4 controlling mobile source emissions.

5 The benefits from California's proposed in-use

6 truck and bus rule are vital to the State's efforts to

7 meet Clean Air Act requirements and to improve and protect

8 the public's health.

9 Again, thank you for the opportunity to support

10 the proposed in-use truck and bus rule this morning.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Larry Robinson.

12 MR. ROBINSON: My name is Larry Robinson, working

13 for Mark Stein Beverage Company for nine years as a

14 mechanic. And before that, I was mechanic in the timber

15 industry. And I worked there until the timber industry

16 was closed in 1993 by our President of the United States.

17 And I would tell you that I oppose what you're

18 doing, and I would ask you to do what the truckers are

19 asking you to do. Because unlike the President, you have

20 the opportunity to listen to the people who do the work on

21 the vehicles and who have been doing it.

22 I've been doing diesel mechanic work for over 30

23 years from heavy equipment work to trucks. And I do smoke

24 opacity tests every year. And I can tell you the older

25 trucks are not running any dirtier than the new ones. The

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234512

1 brand-new ones that we don't test, there's not a whole lot

2 of testing been done on the brand-new ones yet, you know,

3 with the DPS on them. But I can tell you the air is clean

4 coming out of the trucks. Just as clean as what you're

5 going to be proposing. Some of the newer trucks when

6 they're cold, they run dirtier than the old trucks,

7 because I've tested those.

8 So I want you to know that don't give up on the

9 people that are testifying before you today, because I

10 want to tell you something. I worked in the timber

11 industry. And President Clinton lied to the workers in

12 1993 and shut down the national forest when he told us he

13 would work with us.

14 I actually testified before Congress on the

15 Endanger Species Act. That's how involved I was. And

16 that's why I'm here today, to tell you that you need to

17 listen. Because those owls were never endangered. Never.

18 I actually worked for the forester Henry Olden who is a

19 renowned forester that told even the forest service and

20 the President that there was no endangered species. And

21 all it was a ploy, just like global warming is.

22 Thank you.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

24 Robert Meagher.

25 MR. MEAGHER: Hello. I'm Dr. Robert Meagher, a

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234513

1 pediatrician formerly practicing with Kaiser Permanente in

2 Sacramento for 30 years. And today I'm representing the

3 Sierra Sacramento Valley Medical Association, which is

4 made up of doctors in Yolo, El Dorado, and Sacramento

5 Counties.

6 As you know, diesel pollution causes hundreds of

7 deaths and many thousands of illnesses in California each

8 year. Children living near sources of diesel pollution

9 such as highways and ports suffered double the rate of

10 asthma and have progressive irreversible lung disease as

11 they play outdoors near sources of diesel pollution. As

12 they grow up, they will have increased rates of heart

13 disease, lung disease, strokes, and cancer.

14 We are concerned by attempts to weaken or delay

15 regulations that would significantly reduce diesel

16 pollution and urge you to continue with the regulations as

17 they have been proposed.

18 Thank you very much.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

20 Jenny Saklar.

21 MS. SHARPE: Bad news. Unfortunately, there is a

22 lot of fog, as you know, coming up. And they are

23 traveling together. The next three people are actually in

24 the same van together.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Saklar, Hamilton, and

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234514

1 Talavera?

2 BLONDE: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We'll take them when they

4 come.

5 John Yandell, followed by Angelo Logan, and

6 Michael Tunnell.

7 MR. YANDELL: Good morning. My name is John

8 Yandell, owner of Yandell Truckaway. Family-owned

9 business operating solely in the state of California for

10 the last 64 years.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Move up the mike. Thanks.

12 MR. YANDELL: I think the one thing I would like

13 to make clear to the Board, and I think I can speak for

14 the in industry in the room today, we are supporting clean

15 air. I think the thing we're having a difficult time with

16 today is the time frame. Even though it seems like it's

17 spread out over a period, the issue gets to be that today

18 I think from our vantage point, from an industry

19 depreciation, amortization, utilization, those are the

20 things that we have to deal with to do this.

21 So again, please let me say we're supporting

22 this. It's time constraints that we have we're finding

23 difficult to deal with this.

24 Certainly today to try to ask carriers, people in

25 the business to retrofit, re-power, replace, and to do so

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234515

1 simultaneously with the trailing equipment is an economic

2 burden that I don't think is a prudent way to approach

3 this.

4 Certainly today we've all heard about the

5 economics. You know the economics got to be that the

6 banking industry is not looking very favorably on us

7 because I think what's happened is now the equipment is

8 almost a disposable item. The value, the resale value on

9 that is certainly in the state has gone away. The economy

10 with the glut of trade-in equipment has made the traders

11 themselves almost as disposable as the power units.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Mr. Yandell, could I ask

13 you -- I would interrupt, but I'll extend your time for

14 the amount of time I took.

15 For you and for others, the more you can be

16 specific about your particular company, you know, what the

17 affect on you is, the number of trucks that you have, how

18 this will change your plans or the costs, any information

19 that's factual, you know, that's going to be extremely

20 helpful to the Board.

21 I don't mean to put you on the spot particularly.

22 It's just true for all of us that we are in the mode where

23 we've got a lot of facts in front of us and we're trying

24 to sort them through. But we need more. Thank you.

25 MR. YANDELL: I'll go back to the fact of 130

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234516

1 power units and 350 pieces of trailing equip. We look at

2 some of the numbers the staff has shown on long haul and

3 the efficiency of aerodynamics -- we're a regional

4 short-haul carrier. Do not have the turns in the

5 equipment. I think we can work within the confines of the

6 emissions on the power units. But again, to justify the

7 costs on the trailing equipment, we certainly can't do

8 that.

9 The one thing I think that's probably evident to

10 the group that everybody can speak towards this industry

11 is no longer regulated like we used to be with the Public

12 Utilities Commission. In those days, if that was the

13 case, we wouldn't need to be in this room today, because

14 of Public Utilities would give us the leverage. We don't

15 have the leverage now and have had not in the 21st century

16 to get a fuel surcharge. Now to turn around and try and

17 go back and get this from the shippers today, I don't see

18 that happening.

19 So basically, you know, what asking for is that

20 you would consider the alternative the DTCC has so you can

21 as the Board intelligently help us make this work for you

22 and the emissions standards and continue to support the

23 transportation industry.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, sir.

25 Angelo Logan, followed by Michael Tunnell.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234517

1 MR. LOGAN: Good morning, Chairman Nichols and

2 members of the Board.

3 My name is Angelo Logan with the East Yard

4 Communities for Environmental Justice. We are a community

5 organization in the Commerce east Los Angeles area.

6 And I'm here today to say that we are in full

7 support of this regulation, and we would like to ask the

8 Board move forward without delaying or weakening the rule.

9 And my comments really have to do with the

10 impacts that I see in the community that I grew up in.

11 As it relates to members of my community,

12 friends, neighbors, I've seen dozens and dozens of

13 individuals that have been impacted by diesel emissions.

14 And to put this rule issue into perspective, I don't think

15 we can quantify or put a value on a human life. So it's

16 really difficult to talk about the cost when we're talking

17 about human life.

18 When you've had a member of your family die from

19 lung or throat cancer who's never smoked a day in their

20 life, it's hard to put that into perspective. But I urge

21 you to try to think about that when we talk about the cost

22 and the benefits.

23 Although it's difficult to do, we have quantified

24 the cost. And we have quantified the benefits. And I've

25 got to say from my perspective the benefit outweighs the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234518

1 cost enormously. And going beyond that, I think that we

2 need to look at the positive of this. Moving forward in

3 our society, we need to try to move to a greater place

4 where we can have better quality of life for everyone.

5 And there's also positive to this particular rule

6 there's job creation and there's economic benefit.

7 And so I would urge the Board to move forward on

8 this regulation without weakening or delaying. Thank you.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

10 Michael Tunnell, Martin Lassen.

11 MR. TUNNELL: Good morning, Chairman and members

12 of the Board. My name is Mike Tunnell of the American

13 Trucking Association.

14 ATA urges you to strike the necessary balance

15 between cleaning the air and minimizing economic

16 disruption by supporting the DTCC alternative for the

17 reasons you're hearing today and yesterday.

18 My remaining comments focus on the greenhouse gas

19 regulation. The SmartWay Program provides tools for

20 fleets to evaluate and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

21 These tools include more than just the aerodynamic devices

22 you're hearing about from the staff. There's a whole host

23 of mechanisms that fleet can look at and evaluate what

24 works best for them. There's flexibility in this SmartWay

25 Program that isn't provided in the regulation. And we're

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234519

1 asking that you provide more flexibility into that

2 regulation by doing the following three items.

3 One is adding an additional compliance option

4 which allows companies that are deemed compliant in the

5 SmartWay Program to be compliant with your regulation.

6 That would involve your staff working with EPA and the

7 trucking industry to come up with that compliance option

8 so that we can reduce greenhouse gases most effectively

9 without doing things that don't work basically.

10 We'd like to see a credit provision for tractors

11 that come in early, SmartWay certified tractors that are

12 deployed early and trailers. And for fleets that do more

13 than they're being asked, we'd like credit for that.

14 And lastly, we'd like some compliance provisions

15 that address situations of operational safety and

16 operational where the technology doesn't work. We'd like

17 a provision there.

18 We'd like to allow companies to remove equipment

19 from the roadway and into repair shops without being

20 subject to citations.

21 And then provide a compliance path for bringing

22 SmartWay tractors 2011 SmartWay tractors into compliance

23 that had not been purchased

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, Mr. Tunnell.

25 Martin Lassen.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234520

1 MR. LASSEN: Good morning, Madam Chairman and

2 members of the Board. My name is Marty Lassen, and I work

3 for Johnson Matthey. And I'm here to support the truck

4 and bus rule.

5 Johnson Matthey is a technology company that's

6 been providing solutions for emission control for a long

7 time. We were there with the Clean Air Act, the Clean Air

8 Act amendments, the 2007 on-road and the off-road rules,

9 and even your own Diesel Risk Reduction Rule.

10 The product that we have available for this rule

11 is a retrofit product that provides both NOx and PM

12 control. We expect that the devices will be able to get

13 '98 through 2006 model year engines down to 2007 emission

14 levels. What that means is that those vehicles would not

15 have to be touched again until 2020.

16 Additionally, we would be looking at SCR only

17 systems for 2007 to 2009 engines. And they would then be

18 compliant through 2022.

19 So the staff is working on verifying my product.

20 I'm sure they'll keep you updated. And I would be happy

21 to discuss the SCR II system with you once you come

22 downstairs to look at the truck. Thank you.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

24 Margaret Gordon, Angel Raposa.

25 I really would appreciate it if you folks would

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234521

1 cooperate with me and try to line up. Many are doing it.

2 Okay.

3 Margaret.

4 MS. KELLY-ORTEGA: Actually my name is Melissa

5 Kelly-Ortega. We came from San Joaquin Valley. I

6 apologize for being late. We were stuck in fog.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Go ahead.

8 MS. KELLY-ORTEGA: Like I said, my name is

9 Melissa Kelly-Ortega from Merced associated with the

10 Merced Asthma Coalition.

11 I have three children, two of whom have been

12 diagnosed with asthma. And I would first like to give

13 CARB staff a pat on the back for working to meet the needs

14 of all Californians. It's a big task. And I think you've

15 made a lot of concessions since last January.

16 Mr. Goldstene stated without swift approval of

17 this rule, lives will be lost. And I think that's a very

18 great responsibility. Not just a few lives, thousands of

19 lives. And so we really appreciate the fact that you will

20 be taking that responsibility and voting to pass a strong

21 diesel truck rule today.

22 Passing a strong diesel truck rule will allow

23 those of us living in extreme non-attainment areas like

24 the San Joaquin Valley especially for 8-hour ozone a

25 glimmer of hope that our children will be able to breath

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234522

1 clean air.

2 We have a number of us here today who are going

3 to be handing you postcards that have been signed by

4 people around the state who support you adopting a strong

5 health protective rule. And we're going to be coming up

6 and handing you stacks of postcards. People will be doing

7 that from all over the state of California. And these are

8 stacks we've collected I think over 300 in the San Joaquin

9 Valley.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Please deliver them to the

11 clerk. Thank you.

12 MS. KELLY-ORGETA: Thank you very much. And we

13 hope that you'll pass a diesel truck rule today.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank for your work on

15 behalf of people who we need your help.

16 Who is next?

17 MS. RAPOSA: Good morning, Madam Chair and ladies

18 and gentlemen.

19 My name is Angel Raposa. And my husband Jake and

20 I have been owner-operators for over 40 years in the Bay

21 Area.

22 Being hard hit in 2007 and with the first quarter

23 of 2008 proving even worse, we have been trying to sell

24 two pieces of our equipment. We have been hit not only

25 with the volatile economic environment, but with our

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234523

1 industry's anticipation of the on-road rule. Our

2 equipment has lost so much of its value we are unable to

3 sell. We always counted on the fact that selling our

4 equipment would carry us through the worst times. We have

5 lost that ability and soon our livelihood.

6 Both Jake and I have been members of California

7 Dump Truck Owners Association for over 24 years. We have

8 both held multiple positions, both on the Executive

9 Committee and local chapter level. Because of the

10 knowledge we gain, we can consistently keep current with

11 rules and regs.

12 During our last smoke test, our equipment tested

13 between a two and four percentile. Your own rule allows

14 our equipment to have a 40 percent test and pass. How can

15 equipment with such a low percentile be deemed worthless

16 because of the year their engine was manufactured?

17 My husband was diagnosed with asthma while in the

18 marines over 49 years ago. His doctors deemed him asthma

19 free in 1976, eleven years into his owner-operator life.

20 We have known countless truckers over the year.

21 We have never known any to die from diesel-related

22 cancers.

23 Because of the late models and few trucks that we

24 own, we fall through the cracks. No grant will touch us

25 or will we be able to attain financing. We work with

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234524

1 hundreds of other owner-operators who fit this same mold.

2 Should we continue running a legal operation, we will all

3 be out of business.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, Ms. Raposa.

5 Your time is up.

6 Dr. John Balbus.

7 DR. BALBUS: Good morning, Madam Chairman,

8 members of the Board.

9 My name is John Balbus. I'm the Chief Health

10 Scientist for Environmental Defense Fund and a physician.

11 Thank you very much for the opportunity to

12 provide testimony today.

13 As a public health professional, I can state

14 emissions from diesel engines are one of the most

15 significant sources of toxic air pollution. Scientific

16 literature is filled with studies of effects of diesel

17 emission to the lungs, the immune system, heart and

18 cardiovascular system, and even most recently the

19 developing brain.

20 Behind the 21,000 deaths that are estimated to

21 occur annually and to occur as far out as the year 2010,

22 there are many hundreds of thousands of lives that are

23 also effected by heart disease, asthma, and possibly loss

24 of IQ.

25 What I would like to do today is to take an arm

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234525

1 chair bus tour with you to demonstrate what California is

2 proposing to do is completely consistent and in line with

3 what state and local governments across the country are

4 doing to address this major public health threat.

5 Starting in Massachusetts, law makers there have

6 introduced bills in their State House and Senate that will

7 require retrofits on all State-owned, leased, or

8 contracted diesel equipment and all municipal waste trucks

9 by 1211 and 2012 respectively.

10 In New York City, where diesel exhaust is

11 responsible for well over 80 percent of the total cancer

12 risk from air-borne toxics, local laws there require the

13 use of ultra-low sulfur diesel and retrofits on all

14 municipal construction projects. And the World Trade

15 Center site is there a national model for requiring

16 retrofits on construction equipment.

17 In Washington, DC, where I've come from today,

18 Congress passed the Diesel Emissions Reduction Act in 2005

19 which has authorized a billion dollars over five year for

20 retrofits.

21 Texas is the next stop. They passed their

22 emissions reduction plan bill in 2001. This provided an

23 average of $130 million each fiscal year for replacement,

24 retrofits, repowering of highly polluting diesel engines.

25 And then California of course broke new ground as

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234526

1 far as back as 1999 with the Carl Moyer Program, which has

2 provided hundreds of millions of dollars in grants to

3 speed the replacement --

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Dr. Balbus, that's the

5 sound your time is up.

6 DR. BALBUS: My final statement is just in

7 passing this rule, California is acting in complete

8 consistency with the national movement to try to clean up

9 this very dangerous source of pollution. Thank you very

10 much.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

12 Mr. Kitagawa.

13 MR. KITAGAWA: Good morning. Thank you. My name

14 is Brandon Kitagawa. I'm here today on behalf of

15 Community Action to Fight Asthma, the statewide network of

16 asthma coalitions.

17 We would like to thank CARB for tackling diesel

18 emissions which is by far the largest air quality concern

19 of our asthma network.

20 Because the regulation before you today

21 represents the best opportunity for California to improve

22 some of the dirtiest air in the nation and reverse the

23 trend that is seeing the rate of asthma prevalence in the

24 state rise by 25 percent between 1999 and 2005, we urge

25 you to approve a strong health protective rule.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234527

1 CAFA members deal with effects of diesel

2 pollution every day. We see students forced indoors at

3 school for recess. We see the economic burdens on

4 families with children with asthma.

5 Implementing this rule without delay will

6 significantly relief the burden of asthma in communities

7 across the state. We do however have a concern with the

8 exemptions provided to agriculture. These special

9 consideration will compromise the health protections of

10 the regulation for those living and working near the

11 agricultural industry, specifically in the central valley

12 where it will already be a challenge to meet federal air

13 quality standards.

14 Finally, we hope that CARB continues to

15 vigorously outreach to truck owners to ensure incentive

16 programs are understood and accessible. We will not see

17 the benefits of this regulation if owners aren't able to

18 comply. So ensuring owners are aware of the multiple

19 funding sources that can be leveraged and assist

20 individual truck and fleet owners will maximize compliance

21 with the rule and minimize economic burden.

22 Thank you.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

24 Jack Pfeifer.

25 MR. PFEIFER: Nick Pfeifer.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234528

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Nick Pfeifer. Excuse me.

2 Mr. PFEIFER: I'm Nick Pfeifer, Special

3 Operations for Granite Construction's Corporate Equipment

4 Department. And one of my responsibilities in that

5 position is ensuring Granite's fleet is in compliance with

6 CARB emissions regulations.

7 Granite owns and operates about 600 heavy-duty

8 diesel trucks in California. And I would like to hit on

9 two issues that come to the top with reference to

10 Granite's fleet.

11 The majority of Granite's trucks are support

12 equipment in nature. They're service trucks, fuel lube

13 truck, trucks that service heavy equipment and support our

14 jobs. And in that application, it is very difficult to

15 retrofit those trucks.

16 I'm not going to argue the point that the

17 retrofit market for on-highway trucks is far advanced

18 relative to the off-road markets. But in the low load

19 application in many instances a retrofit is just not

20 possible.

21 So I would ask that you consider -- to take the

22 time to consider the challenges that we face with

23 retrofitting vocational duty vehicles and make the

24 appropriate adjustments in those applications.

25 The second concern I have is the cumulative

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234529

1 effect of this regulation with other CARB regulations. We

2 currently fall under six fleet rules this would make

3 number seven. And it's very challenging and complicated

4 when you start combining rules.

5 My request would be that CARB were to start a

6 courtesy inspection program similar to what Cal/OSHA

7 offers where a company can request an inspection. And

8 CARB can come out, work with the company. The company

9 would open their books. Open their fleet for inspections.

10 And would then be given a grace period to remedy any

11 situations that are uncovered.

12 I have the same concern that there needs to be

13 very strong enforcement with all of these CARB rules to

14 maintain an even playing field. But I think a program

15 like this would compliment the enforcement rather than

16 undermine it.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. Appreciate the

18 suggestion.

19 Josh Pane.

20 MR. PANE: Madam Chair, Josh Pane on behalf of

21 the California Bus Association.

22 First, we would like to applaud the Board for

23 their work over these many months. Applaud the staff, Mr.

24 Goldstene's staff, and all of their work. We've worked

25 scores of hours, and finally we came to a position of

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234530

1 neutrality after a lot of opposition.

2 I think in the end when you look at this rule, we

3 have a brand-new 2009 member bus outside for you for the

4 tour, amador Stage Lines. You'll see what a brand-new bus

5 is.

6 I think I'll just make one point. Mike Waters

7 I'll introduce next on your list.

8 Buses are 450 to $500,000. Staff had recognized

9 that. Finally, staff realized it's really a truck and bus

10 rule. First it was just a diesel engine rule.

11 Staff went a long way over scores of meetings and

12 hours to come down to a position and finally understand

13 the bus industry.

14 So on behalf of the over 100 companies, one

15 person operation to multi-bus operation, we appreciate

16 that.

17 Now Mike Waters, former president of the

18 Association, a person who took the chairmanship of the

19 clean bus rule that we started calling it I'd like to

20 introduce. Mike.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

22 MR. WATERS: Thanks, Josh.

23 Madam Chair and Board, my name is Mike Waters,

24 Vice President of Coach America San Franciscan Lines in

25 San Francisco, about an 80 bus operation in the Bay Area,

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234531

1 and a director of the California Bus Association.

2 I appreciate the opportunity to register the

3 neutral position on regulation 2025 taken by the

4 California Bus Association.

5 During the course of the past year, the CBA has

6 met with staff as well as Board members regarding the

7 impact these proposed emission regulations would have had

8 on our industry. While the population of motor coaches is

9 only about one-seventh that of the school buses registered

10 in California, we felt that the modeling used by the draft

11 rule had its foundation a replacement cost for buses as

12 Josh mentioned similar to that of heavy-duty trucks of

13 about 130- to $150,000. The current price of a 2008-2009

14 motor coach can vary between 450-, $470,000.

15 Again as Josh had mentioned, there is a display

16 motor coach model out front, a 2009 model, with the latest

17 DPF upgrades.

18 An accelerator replacement model as it was

19 originally proposed in the regulation would have been for

20 our industry a business and a job killer. While we met

21 numerous times with ARB staff members Eric White and Tony

22 Brasil -- thank you, Eric -- and the staff modelers, and

23 encountered some tough negotiations. We were able to

24 reach a point where the association believes that with the

25 adjustments made to the rule under the motor coach

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234532

1 modification our association and industry members have a

2 proposed rule that has a chance of working without

3 imposing crippling financial burdens on its members

4 through the forced early replacement of usable buses with

5 all new vehicles.

6 Thank you again.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

8 Allen Faris.

9 MR. FARIS: Good morning, Madam and members of

10 the Board.

11 My name is Allen Faris. I've born and lived in

12 Sacramento all my life. I'm in the rock, sand, and gravel

13 trucking. Been over 40 years in Sacramento hauling rock,

14 sand, and gravel.

15 You asked to testify about things that you can

16 personally say.

17 I was born with asthma and very sick. And about

18 the age of 17 completely through the doctor's and

19 everything else outgrew it and never had any problems

20 since. I've been around diesel trucks -- working on them

21 for like almost 50 years.

22 But anyway, I want to testify on what this rule

23 has done already just the potentiality of it to assets of

24 people with older trucks. And you've heard testimony.

25 Seventy-five percent of my fleet is mechanical engines.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234533

1 We run local within 100-mile radius at the maximum. And

2 you know how the construction industry is. You work maybe

3 50, 60 percent of the time.

4 People's assets, you've heard that they're just

5 diminished and they've gone. I can personally testify to

6 that. I think it's wrong to say that a vehicle that has

7 useful life no matter what year it is that complies with

8 all the smog related issues of when it was built and what

9 it had to comply with, I think it's wrong to say it has to

10 go away for good.

11 Our industry and myself personally depend on the

12 independent owner-operator very heavily. And they make up

13 the majority be it aggregate, trucking, or whatever it is

14 the owner-operators make up the majority of the industry

15 out of necessity. They're very valuable. And I'm afraid

16 you're going to cut them in about half. Half of them are

17 going to be gone. They're not going to be able to make

18 it.

19 Then you take into consideration that where our

20 country is right now financially, it's just -- I hope that

21 you take a look at the alternatives to this.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

23 Joel Errice.

24 MR. ERRICE: Good morning. My name is Joel

25 Errice. I'm Associate Director of RAMP, Regional Asthma

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234534

1 Management and Prevention, a regional collaborative

2 working to reduce the burden of asthma in the Bay Area.

3 Also a member of the Health Network for Clean Air and

4 Ditching Dirty Diesel.

5 I'm here today to urge you to adopt the diesel

6 truck rule without delaying implementation dates or

7 maintaining the exemption for agriculture. I know this is

8 a tough economic climate in which to implement new

9 regulations, but consider the health costs that's

10 currently shouldered by far too many of us.

11 Children, for example. One in six kids here in

12 California has been diagnosed with asthma. One in six.

13 In some communities, generally poor or minority

14 communities, the number is closer to one in four.

15 Sadly, but perhaps not surprisingly, many of the

16 communities disproportionately burdened by asthma are the

17 same communities disproportionately burdened by diesel

18 pollution. The diesel truck rule will help correct this

19 injustice, as less pollution in the air means less asthma

20 attacks.

21 While there are costs to this rule, consider the

22 costs of inaction. In 2004, asthma hospitalizations among

23 kids cost $667 million. Reducing diesel pollution will

24 help reduce hospitalizations.

25 A recent study showed air pollution in the South

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234535

1 Coast and the San Joaquin Valley regions cost the state's

2 economy $28 billion annually. With this rule, money spent

3 on ER visits can instead be spent on products and

4 services. Parents losing work can instead be productive

5 at work.

6 We also need this rule to help clean air

7 requirements or we risk losing valuable highway funding.

8 Let me close on a personal note. I have asthma.

9 Fortunately, it's not too severe. But I still carry my

10 inhaler with me in case I run into a problem.

11 There is a park near my apartment that my fiance

12 and I like to go to. Perfect for walks, with one

13 exception. Near the parking lot there is often a row of

14 diesel trucks serving a nearby distribution center.

15 During some of those times when the trucks are coming and

16 going, there is a strong smell of diesel in the air and my

17 asthma kicks in.

18 By approving the rule, you'll be making such

19 places safer for me and literally millions of others.

20 Thank you.

21 Also have some post cards.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. Give them to

23 the clerk. And we'll be sure to get them.

24 Danny Wyatt.

25 MR. WYATT: Good morning, Madam Chairman, Board.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234536

1 My name is Denny Wyatt. I'm an owner of APEX Bulk

2 Commodity. We are a California-based dry bulk carrier.

3 Principle business is in the construction end.

4 Eighteen months, ago we employed 550

5 Californians. These days, that's down the a number less

6 than 400 with the economy.

7 We are probably one of the companies that the air

8 pollution people like the best. We rotate our trucks out

9 at four- to five-year intervals. We buy new equipment.

10 We average about 120,000 miles a year per unit. So at

11 five- to 600,000 miles is the trade cycle.

12 Trucks in the year 2000 cost us 65- to $70,000 to

13 purchase. Trucks that we recently purchased in before

14 2009 models were $110,000.

15 On the 2002 trucks that we are trading in on some

16 of the 2009 models, those trucks we anticipated under

17 historical facts would bring us about 25 to $28,000 on

18 trade in. The dealer just gave us $10,000 for a 2002

19 truck.

20 We buy new trucks to -- a little clarification

21 from yesterday. We buy new trucks because it is the best

22 financial decision that we can make. You can get

23 financing for new trucks up to six to seven years. The

24 interest rates when you buy new trucks are five-and-a-half

25 to six percent instead of eight, nine, ten percent. Used

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234537

1 truck equipment generally will only be financed for three

2 years if you don't have some advantage from the Board.

3 We are also participating in all of the air

4 programs we can participate in in California. And

5 currently have applications in for somewhere around a

6 million dollars in grant money.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Sorry your time is up.

8 MR. WYATT: Thank you.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Ms. Stephens.

10 MS. STEPHENS: Thank you for allowing me to speak

11 this morning. My name is Melissa Stephens. I work for

12 the American Lung Association and lead the San Diego

13 Regional Asthma Coalition.

14 I'd like to echo all the thoughts of some of my

15 colleagues from CAFA this morning and to let you know that

16 the San Diego Regional Asthma Coalition urges a strong

17 rule.

18 I want to bring in maybe some extra regional

19 statistics and some things you may or may not have thought

20 about in going through this process. And I'd just like to

21 share with you some of the SANDAG studies. That's the San

22 Diego Association of Governments.

23 Public opinion survey in 2005, this was rated a

24 public study. San Diego's number one problem was traffic

25 congestion. And again with that study had some issues

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234538

1 with the border between Mexico and the United States. The

2 Otay Mesa port of entry is the busiest commercial border

3 with 1.4 million trucks with $22 billion of goods movement

4 coming through that border annually.

5 What this means with 45-minute to two-hour wait

6 times at the border, as we know, emissions do not know a

7 border. So we are -- I was just thinking as far as the

8 trucking, oftentimes the trucks from the United States end

9 up in Mexico. So therefore we are hoping to maybe solve a

10 little bit more of a global issue.

11 Also want to talk about very briefly the asthma

12 effects in San Diego County. About 361,000 people

13 affected with asthma, as well as 25 percent of kids who

14 have asthma missing school. Seventeen percent of adults

15 missing school. Of those 361,000, 41,000 not being

16 insured.

17 These are just some local statistics just want to

18 share with you this morning and urge a strong rule.

19 So thank you for your time.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

21 Daniel Speth.

22 MR. SPETH: Good morning, Madam Chair and the

23 Board.

24 My name is Daniel Speth. I'm an owner-operator,

25 one truck. I've been in business for about eight years.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234539

1 I'm a short-haul driver. Most of my work is at a

2 cemetery, which doesn't put a lot of miles on my truck.

3 And a lot of this grants and things, you know, I just

4 don't put the miles on, so I can't make it happen with

5 that.

6 I'm also the chapter Chairman of the San Fernando

7 Valley California Dump Truck Owners Association. There's

8 60 members. And most of them all owner-operators. And

9 they're all going to be put out of business, because they

10 won't be able to buy new trucks or retrofit old trucks.

11 Most of them are pre-'94s. Mine is an '89. Just won't be

12 able to replace that.

13 You say, you know, to buy just the truck is one

14 thing. But to buy the equipment that goes on the truck is

15 another thing. To buy a box for a dump truck is $30,000.

16 We just don't have the margin as an

17 owner-operator with our work down 50 percent at least.

18 Some members I've talked to are down 70 percent. With the

19 economy the way it is, it just doesn't seem like we're

20 going make it.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Excuse me. Can I ask you a

22 question? I'll extend your time. Because I think we've

23 heard from a couple of people in somewhat similar

24 situations.

25 What would happen to your employer? You work for

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234540

1 the cemetery association?

2 MR. SPETH: I work for a contractor that works

3 for --

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So suppose you were no

5 longer able to be in business. What would they do? I

6 mean, how would your work get done? Do you have any idea?

7 MR. SPETH: They would have to find someone else

8 to do it.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: But anybody else would be

10 in the same situation as you; right?

11 MR. SPETH: They wouldn't be an owner-operator.

12 They would have to hire a big company, and the cost would

13 go up. It's just cost on cost on cost. Just keeps going.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Right. Believe me we are

15 not suggesting that's what we want to see happen.

16 MR. SPETH: But I want to let you know when the

17 rain comes and the mud starts sliding, the levees start

18 breaking, they call us to go take that away. And we

19 aren't going to be there. And I don't know how you're

20 going -- I mean, the cost of that will go up to remove the

21 dirt.

22 But we're short haulers. We don't go a 100,000

23 miles a year. And we don't pollute that much. We'd like

24 some kind of resolution in there to give us a little more

25 leeway. And let the technology come. And we will sooner

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234541

1 or later get new trucks and hopefully not pollute that

2 much.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

4 Lee Jennings.

5 If not, it was Sean Realite.

6 Okay. Patti Pirkle. That's you. Okay.

7 MS. Pirkle: Hi. Good morning, Madam Chairman,

8 honorable Board. My name is Patti Pirkle, and I'm with

9 Pirkle Trucking and Equipment Rental. Also State

10 Treasurer and Chapter Chairperson for CDTOA.

11 I've been in business 28 years. I'm a trucking

12 broker as well as a trucker. I've worked the earthquakes,

13 the floods, the fire, several freeway widening jobs, and

14 numerous private contractors jobs through the years.

15 Little over a year and a half ago, I wanted to

16 get the jump on the regulation that was coming before us

17 and purchase two newer trucks to stay within compliance.

18 I have a total of seven power units, five of which I have

19 recently parked because there's little to no work in the

20 south. What is there is going for very, very cheap. And

21 it's very difficult for me to compete paying a driver a

22 decent wage, work comp, payroll taxes and on and on, plus

23 medical benefits.

24 My apologies.

25 With our economy in the dumpster, the banks in

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234542

1 trouble, no one can get a loan, and if they can, they

2 can't afford the payments. I'm sitting in that situation

3 now with the two newer ones I purchased. The payments are

4 $3,800 a month, not to mention the higher insurance rates.

5 I feel the Board should consider the alternative

6 to help the small trucking businesses, plus many, many

7 owner-operators stay in business. And I feel being as the

8 Governor is trying to place a plan to save the state of

9 California from bankruptcy, I wonder who's going to save

10 us. Thank you.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

12 John Pitta.

13 MR. PITTA: Good morning. John Pitta, John Pitta

14 trucking, Salinas, California.

15 I am a three dump truck operator, one of which is

16 parked. Just the proposal of this rule has wiped out my

17 equity. The rule will put me out of business, period.

18 I would urge you to consider -- the State of

19 California is not going to suffer when John Pitta Trucking

20 goes out of business. But I am one of thousands that

21 employ more thousands. And we are all going to be out of

22 business. I would urge you to consider the alternative

23 rule.

24 Thank you.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Jacqui Hansen.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234543

1 Excuse me, sir. Could you before you leave just

2 explain why you're going out of business?

3 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Help us understand.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We need more specifics.

5 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: How the alternative

6 rules -- it sounds like if you have the alternative rule

7 you're going to be okay.

8 MR. PITTA: It delays the inevitable. And my

9 newest truck is a 2003. It has 250,000 miles. It's not

10 worth anything anymore. It's a perfectly serviceable

11 truck. It complies with all the rules that were in force

12 when it was built. It tests clean.

13 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: How much time would the

14 alternative give you?

15 MR. PITTA: I don't know, but it would give me

16 some time. But I cannot afford to retrofit three trucks.

17 I can't afford to buy new trucks.

18 I'm 64 years old. It's not going to kill me. My

19 two employees are going to lose their sole source of

20 income, their health benefits. They'll get other jobs,

21 but it will be a while. And I'm just -- the State of

22 California is not going to suffer when I go out of

23 business. But I'm one of thousands, not only in the dump

24 truck industry but other industries. And we employ

25 thousands.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234544

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Thank you. We heard

2 you.

3 Jacqui Hansen.

4 Dennis Downing.

5 MR. DOWNING: Good morning, Madam Chair and the

6 Board. My name is Dennis Downing. I'm from Apple Valley,

7 in San Bernardino County.

8 My family has been in the construction business

9 since 1952 and specifically construction trucking since

10 1971.

11 I'm a second generation trucker, and my son is a

12 third generation trucker. And it's kind of been said by

13 other people giving testimony that construction industries

14 kind of a handed-down trade from family member to family

15 member. And that's been pretty consistent with what I've

16 discovered in my career.

17 The interesting thing about construction trucking

18 is that we don't run the miles. At least what we do in

19 our area, we don't run the miles the over-the-road do. So

20 consequently we do not generate the revenue the

21 over-the-road trucks do. And so we in years past have

22 bought the over-the-road trucks as they phase out their

23 trucks to buy newer trucks. We bought what they sold off.

24 Obviously, that's not going to work in the

25 future. But we still have a revenue problem, because we

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234545

1 don't generate the revenue the over-the-road truck does.

2 And I want to say first and foremost, we are

3 truckers, but we are also Californians. And we want clean

4 air, too. And so these rules that you're suggesting here,

5 no one -- I haven't heard one single person even in the

6 trucking industry say they are not in favor of doing

7 something to clean up the air.

8 But what we are trying to go towards is

9 compromise. We hear that so much on television. And

10 especially when it comes to politics, reaching across the

11 aisle, compromising. That means each party gives a little

12 bit.

13 And the DTCC proposal was on a chart yesterday,

14 and it was interesting to look at that chart. Because

15 doing nothing was one line. Doing the proposed plan was

16 another line. And the DTCC was right in the middle. A

17 compromise. That's what we're asking for. We are not

18 certain how we're going to comply with these, even with

19 the compromise. But at least it gives us time to try to

20 secure funds, even with grants, the grants are not enough

21 to apply complete units. We have to get financing for the

22 balance.

23 Thank you.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Catherine Garoupa.

25 MS. GAROUPA: Catherine Garoupa with the Madera

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234546

1 Coalition for Community Justice. We work in proud

2 partnership with the Central Valley Air Quality Coalition.

3 I was born and raised in Madera, so I'm also

4 speaking from a local perspective as a San Joaquin Valley

5 resident.

6 I'm here today to support a strong diesel truck

7 rule and recognize the significance of the decision that

8 you'll make. I also have a stack of several hundred

9 postcards that we collectively have worked to gather in

10 support of this rule.

11 But I must also speak strongly in saying I oppose

12 the agricultural exemptions that's currently within the

13 proposal.

14 The slides of your staff presentation from

15 yesterday, specifically slides 21 and 27, really speak to

16 the localized impact that many residents of Madera County

17 and the San Joaquin Valley will face in these agricultural

18 trucks are not cleaned up, particularly slide 27 which

19 shows the increased cancer risk that people in those

20 localized area are going to face.

21 In addition, the mileage provision is a concern

22 for me, because many of these trucks in the orchards and

23 fields are not necessarily putting on a lot of miles.

24 Sometimes, they're sitting in the orchards idling for

25 hours, which is releasing emissions that are I'm very

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234547

1 concerned about.

2 Furthermore, I believe the end of 2009 is far too

3 long to wait for your staff to come back with further

4 details about what those localized impacts are really

5 going to be. Because as many people have said before me,

6 at the end of the day, what we're here to accomplish for

7 everyone is clean air. I believe that clean air is a

8 fundamental human right. And, unfortunately, most

9 residents of the San Joaquin Valley -- in fact all of us

10 don't enjoy that privilege yesterday. And I'm concerned

11 that adding this ag exemption is going to mean we're going

12 to wait even longer before we breathe clean air.

13 I urge you to pass the strong truck rule and urge

14 you to remove or tighten the agricultural exemption.

15 Thank you.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

17 Marybelle Nzegwu.

18 MS. NZEGWU: Good morning. My name is Marybelle

19 Nzegwu. And I'm a staff attorney at the Center on Race,

20 Poverty, and the Environment. And I'm here today to talk

21 about the State Implementation Plan, because this rule is

22 essential for the State to meet the commitment made in the

23 2007 State strategy.

24 As staff presented yesterday, this rule is

25 critical to meet the obligations in the SIP. Every ton of

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234548

1 reduction that can be achieved goes towards meeting ARB's

2 duty under the State strategy.

3 Secondly, once this rule is adopted, the Board

4 must submit it to EPA for inclusion in the State SIP,

5 which the Board currently does not do. Inclusion in the

6 State SIP is necessary for three reasons.

7 First, the EPA has to approve the rule as an

8 adequate measure to meet SIP requirements.

9 Secondly, this will give clarity as to how and if

10 the SIP commitments are being satisfied.

11 And thirdly, submission of the rule to EPA allows

12 the public to enforce the rule under the federal law.

13 So I urge you to make a strong commitment in this

14 rule and also to submit it to EPA for inclusion in the

15 SIP.

16 Thank you.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

18 MS. NZEGWE: Oh, sorry. I also have these

19 postcards that I would like to submit.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

21 Diane Bailey.

22 MS. BAILEY: Good morning, Chairwoman Nichols and

23 members of the Board and staff.

24 My name is Diane Bailey. And I representing the

25 Natural Resources Defense Council in very strong support

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234549

1 of both rules, the diesel bus and truck and the greenhouse

2 gas truck rule. And we urge you to move forward to adopt

3 these very important rules and take a second historic

4 action this week.

5 We simply can't afford not to adopt these

6 important truck cleanup regulations. They're critical to

7 California's air quality, public health, and climate

8 goals.

9 And I don't want to repeat the testimony of my

10 colleagues. We also support the suggestions to improve

11 especially the ag exemption as we've outlined in our

12 written comments.

13 And I want to note we've heard a lot of

14 heart-wrenching stories today as well as yesterday from

15 truck owners. And we don't discount their struggles to

16 comply with these regulations and put forth the capital

17 costs during a tough economy.

18 But we must stay focused on the staggering health

19 impacts of diesel pollution. Diesel pollution kills

20 thousands of Californians every year. And these two rules

21 will save 9400 lives and over $40 billion in health care

22 costs. They'll prevent thousands of air pollution related

23 illnesses and contribute to our State's global warming

24 reduction goals.

25 The truck industry has had more than a decade to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234550

1 tap into public funds to get a jump start on these

2 regulations and cleanup. And they'll continue to have

3 another decade to fully cleanup under the time frames of

4 the regulatory proposal.

5 With one billion dollars of public funds and

6 grants and loans available to help those who need them

7 most, we think it's critical to move forward with these

8 rules today.

9 Up until now, residents of California have been

10 subsidizing the trucking businesses with their lungs and

11 health. And the long-term financial benefits of avoided

12 health impacts from the proposed regulation are at least

13 ten times greater than the capital costs. And it's

14 important to recognize that. In fact, while the green job

15 benefits of these regulations haven't been quantified, we

16 know that substantial labor will be needed to install the

17 pollution controls and the aerodynamic retrofits. And we

18 urge you to move forward to create green jobs and protect

19 public health today.

20 Thank you very much.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, Ms. Bailey.

22 MS. BAILEY: I have another stock of postcards.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Before we proceed to the

24 next witness, who's Bill Terrell, I just want to ask Eric

25 White, you can be the person to respond here. We use a

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234551

1 lot of shorthand in these hearings sometimes, but I just

2 want to be clear, the staff is not proposing an exemption

3 for agriculture from this rule.

4 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

5 WHITE: No. Absolutely not. We've tried to be very

6 careful to not couch it as such. We built some specific

7 provisions recognizing some of the unique aspects of

8 agricultural vehicles to clean them up on a time line that

9 makes sense relative to their use the unique aspects of

10 many of the vehicles. But it's not an exemption.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Ultimately within some

12 fixed period of time, they have to come into compliance

13 with the standard.

14 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

15 WHITE: Every agricultural vehicle will get to the same

16 place just as every other over-the-road truck will. And I

17 think that's very important to remember.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

19 Bill Terrell.

20 MR. TERRELL: Good morning, Chairman Nichols, Air

21 Resources Board.

22 My name is Bill Terrell. For the past 25 years,

23 I've been an operation superintendent with Genesis

24 Construction in Hemet, California.

25 As California contractors directly affected by

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234552

1 the pending on-road rule, I have firsthand information on

2 how this has effected us. A year ago, we chose to sell

3 off half of our mixed fleet, water trucks, dump trucks,

4 low beds, service trucks, and the like. Unfortunately,

5 the fear and uncertainty regarding the on-road rule has

6 effected older truck values statewide. Actual results

7 from auctions we participated in, private sales, have

8 shown a drastic reduction in what our older equipment and

9 trucks are worth. We're contractors. We have equipment

10 and trucks. We're getting hit from both sides.

11 The severe reduction in value while partially

12 attributed to the current economy is for the most part a

13 direct result of the pending rule and the fear it has

14 created in the market.

15 While this meeting is not about the off-road

16 rule, those of you in the audience right here that run

17 heavy equipment are seeing the same thing. Your values

18 are down drastically. You sell them now for a little or

19 later for much less.

20 Contrary to what we were told would happen, this

21 rule, while not yet enacted, has literally destroyed any

22 equity left in our older trucks and equipment. This chain

23 of events effects both the contractors and the state. The

24 contractors suffer by realizing reduced values on their

25 trucks, the money he would have used to get through tough

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234553

1 times that they're all in right now has been greatly

2 reduced. If you were to use the sale proceeds to purchase

3 a new vehicle, he has to finance that much more if he even

4 can. Forget about trading in an older out of compliance

5 truck. No one wants them.

6 The State is losing out by less tax income

7 generated by the sales of used vehicles, not to mention

8 less of revenue from contractors that go out of business

9 all together. Don't forget about our part suppliers and

10 other vendors related to these industries that will be

11 selling less inventory and generating less sales tax

12 revenue.

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Time is up.

14 Susan Jones.

15 MS. JONES: Good morning. My name is Susan

16 Jones, and I've been a dump truck owner-operator in the

17 San Francisco Bay Area for the past 22 years. I've driven

18 trucks all my life, literally since I was in diapers.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I hope not.

20 MS. JONES: I have. I've the Bay Area Chapter

21 Chairperson for the California Dump Truck Owners

22 Association. I own two pre-1991 dump trucks that cannot

23 be repowered or retrofitted. They have lost approximately

24 75 percent of their value due to this pending regulation

25 and the depressed economy.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234554

1 One of my trucks is 20 years old, and it has only

2 gone 310,000 miles. That's an average of 15,500 miles a

3 year. And that is more than what your proposal allows.

4 I've worked the disastrous hills fire and the

5 Loma Prieta earthquake.

6 I found out late yesterday from Cascade Sierra

7 Solutions that I have been awarded a $50,000 grant towards

8 a new truck. But I can't except this grant. Financing

9 the balance of the truck would be completely impossible in

10 this economic climate. With no work, I would not be able

11 to pay the higher insurance premiums, the registration

12 fees, much less try to make the payment on it, which is

13 going to be well over $800 a month. I cannot absorb any

14 more of the cost increases or pass them on to my

15 customers.

16 An issue that has not been addressed here is the

17 loss of medical coverage. In order to be able to afford

18 my medical coverage, we have had to increase our

19 deductible so high I can no longer afford my prescribed

20 medications.

21 Due to all of the stress, my husband is now on

22 high blood pressure medication. You have stated you will

23 be savings thousands of lives with this regulation. What

24 about the thousands you will be killing who cannot afford

25 medical insurance anymore? We are on the verge of losing

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234555

1 ours.

2 The bottom line of this regulation is it will put

3 me out of business. Thank you.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

5 Liza Bolanol.

6 MS. BOLANOL: Good morning. Lisa Bolanol,

7 Central Valley Air Quality Coalition.

8 In October of 2007, hundreds of valley residents

9 came before this Board on the 8-hour ozone plan and asked

10 you to accelerate clean air of ozone in the San Joaquin

11 Valley. And at that time, the Board decided the best move

12 was to do a 2024 deadline. And we became extreme

13 non-attainment.

14 But at that time, you also increased your

15 commitment to accelerate despite that deadline. And part

16 of the commitment was the diesel truck rule and ensuring

17 that more emission reductions would come from that. We're

18 appreciative of that. We look forward to seeing you

19 fulfill that commitment today.

20 I want to remind the Board that despite a strong

21 healthy truck rule we're going to pass today, we still

22 have more to do. Our black box contains well over

23 50 percent of the emission reductions still needed to get

24 to that deadline.

25 So with that in mind, I just ask you once again

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234556

1 to continue to fulfill that commitment. And we are very

2 excited to be here today. You'll see a lot of the folks

3 that were at that ozone hearing back in 2007 here today.

4 And the ones who weren't able to come did bring their

5 postcards. So thank you very much.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

7 Joe Laney. Not here or passing.

8 Jeremy Jungreis.

9 MR. JUNGREIS: Thank you, ma'am. Good morning,

10 Madam Chair and members of the Board.

11 My name is Major Jeremy Jungreis as it was

12 yesterday. And I'm here on behalf of the Marine Corps

13 Installations in California.

14 It's been a long road. We've been talking about

15 trucks and retrofitting and biodiesel and issues like that

16 for three or four years now. We were originally out of

17 the original public fleet rule and then we weren't and now

18 we're back then. And the statewide truck and bus you rule

19 which you all promised. So you lived up so that.

20 But we still have a number of issues that are

21 relatively minor.

22 We want to thank staff very much. They've been

23 extremely helpful. And they have accommodated the fact we

24 have some very different requirements in the context of

25 military applications of tactical vehicles essentially.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234557

1 And staff has been very helpful in that regard. So thank

2 you for helping us do that.

3 Second, wanted to just mention that we continue

4 to be a leader in alternative fuels and technology

5 particularly biodiesel. And I want to remind the Board --

6 and Mr. Friedman will be talking about this as well -- we

7 continue to have some problems. Right now there is no NOx

8 retrofit that we know of. You know, NOx retrofits is an

9 issue that will be worked out still. But there is no NOx

10 retrofit approved for use with biodiesel. That's

11 something we're concerned about if we want to try to use

12 vehicles after retrofitting.

13 Second, there's no USTs as we understand it

14 approved for use for B20, underground storage take. And

15 we have to keep the B20s somewhere. We have a lot of B20s

16 we use.

17 And so I know that's a Water Board issues, but

18 it's certainly something -- especially since B20 is one of

19 your low-carbon fuel standards potentially, that's

20 something we have to work out.

21 Third, there is a few minor language tweaks that

22 are still needed in the regulation. There is some

23 internal inconsistencies. And I would ask the Board to

24 request staff to work with us. There are a couple minor

25 things. I don't think there will be a problem. But

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234558

1 definitional changes in Section 2025(c)(5). There are

2 just a couple of minor things in the SmartWay rule and in

3 the statewide truck and bus rule if staff will work with

4 us on that.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thanks, Major.

6 Randal Friedman.

7 MR. FRIEDMAN: Good morning, Chair and Board

8 members. Randal Friedman on behalf of the US Navy.

9 I'd like to thank the staff for respecting our

10 unique mission requirements and equipment in this rule.

11 I do want to just talk a little more at length

12 about the B20 issue. I've been before you a number of

13 times over the years. We've been one of the leaders in

14 B20. We sponsored Senate Bill 975 a few years ago to

15 protect our ability to use B20.

16 I know the staff has said in the past that

17 prospectively any verifications of control technology will

18 be required to be verified with B20. I would just like to

19 put in the record here and to get the commitment from you

20 that that in fact will be part of this rule that any

21 control technologies that are done under this rule will be

22 required to be verified for B20 as well.

23 I think in your low-carbon rule and the early

24 numbers we've seen, I think you are recognizing that B20

25 and biodiesel is one of the most promising alternatives

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234559

1 for low carbon fuel and for having substantial greenhouse

2 gas benefits. I think we're all on the same page. And we

3 want to make sure that we can continue to meet our federal

4 requirements which mandate the use of biodiesel consistent

5 with your programs.

6 Thank you.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

8 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

9 WHITE: Just maybe I could -- Madam Chairman.

10 I just wanted to just let the Board know that

11 while not part of this regulation the use of B20 in our

12 verification program, we do consider that and the fact

13 most if not all devices are verified for on-roads

14 vehicles.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Maybe you and Mr.

16 Friedman can get together and discuss this further. Thank

17 you.

18 MR. LUIZ: Madam Chair and Board members, I'd

19 like to thank you for listening to me. Many things I want

20 to say, but I want to make this personal.

21 My name is Tony Luiz. I'm the president and

22 owner of T&L Trucking. My and my wife started it 25 years

23 ago.

24 In the last few years, we went from a grows

25 revenue receipts of 1.3 to almost $1.4 million. We are

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234560

1 down at approximately about five to $600,000 this year

2 because of the economic downturn. I've lost a total of

3 eight subhaulers. They either filed bankruptcy, losing

4 their homes, no longer have medical care or insurance, and

5 are applying for medical assistance. The remainder of the

6 employees that I have are about already to lose their.

7 This rule, I'm opposed to it. It will put me out

8 of business. My tire suppliers, they've laid off a bunch

9 of their workers because of the truckers having a hard

10 time. Fuel suppliers are having a hard time with the

11 income. So I would strongly suggest that this Board come

12 up with a different alternative to where it's workable for

13 us as owners of companies. And for the state economy,

14 this is going to be detrimental to the state economy,

15 especially if this continues the way it does.

16 The contractors we worked for big and small have

17 no projects in the works. I know Board had said that

18 hopefully, what, 2010, 2013, that's not going to happen.

19 A lot of these big projects require at least five years

20 minimum for it to come through the planning process and

21 engineering and everything. Engineers that we have talked

22 to, the customers we worked with do not have nothing

23 coming through to their desk. So small projects, regular

24 homes and stuff, is about a year out when you start the

25 process. Thank you.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234561

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

2 Josh Zickerman. Jose Gonzalvez. Bruce Wick.

3 Mr. Wick, let me just say, you are number 44 on

4 our list of 109 people who signed up to testify. We're

5 doing really well actually. But we do need to take a

6 break at some point for the Board members to just take a

7 quick look downstairs at the trucks that are parked

8 outside for us. So I think we'll make you the last

9 witness for the moment and then take a half-hour break.

10 Make it as close to being on time as possible.

11 Thank you.

12 MR. WICK: Thank you, Madam Chair and Board.

13 Bruce Wick, California Professional Association of

14 Specialty Contractors. I'm the risk manager. We have 500

15 specialty contractors and their supplier members. We

16 operate a lot of portable engine, off-road, and on-road

17 diesel equipment across the state.

18 We urge you to consider the DTCC proposal.

19 Residential construction is down almost 70

20 percent in California. Commercial construction about 40.

21 So we have a lot of equipment not operating. And recovery

22 is not expected to begin until 2011. So we're being

23 forced to be way ahead of the curve. If clean air truly

24 is the issue, construction equipment is just not

25 operating. And the equipment that is operating is our

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234562

1 best, our most efficient, and that's the newest equipment.

2 Construction has had portable engines. It's had

3 off-road, and now it has on-road. And the timing of this

4 rule as proposed cuts right into when recovery could

5 begin. And that's a real difficulty.

6 Contractors are trying to survive and hold on.

7 What little reserves or credit line they're tapping into

8 is very hard to say as soon as you can recover, you're

9 going to take on a lot of debt. Even if you can buy the

10 equipment, taking on that debt is very difficult.

11 We've had some safety issues from retrofits and

12 off-road. And while it's better on the on-road equipment,

13 you can still have engines that a DPF works for but

14 doesn't apply on particular vehicle. And construction has

15 a lot of specialty vehicles that make this difficult.

16 So we would just ask you to strongly consider and

17 respectfully consider the DTCC proposal It's safe. It

18 has the consensus and the support of those who have to

19 implement, pay for, and take on debt that they've never --

20 at levels they've never even considered in industry

21 before. It gives it a small but important window to work

22 through and work the issues out. Thank you.

23 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Madam Chairman,

24 before we break, I just want to talk about logistics just

25 for a moment if you don't mind.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234563

1 When we break, if the Board could follow staff

2 out to the 11th Street, we're going to explain to the

3 Board at the same time what you're seeing out there on the

4 street just to be as quick as we can to go through the

5 display.

6 And also I want to suggest to the people that are

7 here getting ready to testify, the list of names 45 onward

8 is displayed out in the lobby. When we come back, if you

9 can line yourselves up as quickly as possible, that would

10 be appreciated.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. We'll do our

12 best.

13 We will be adjourned until 10:35.

14 (Thereupon a recess was taken.)

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So while we were out

16 looking at vehicles, the list grew from 109 to 160.

17 And I want to try something here. I'm going to

18 ask everybody a favor, because I really do appreciate the

19 fact that people came here from long distances. And many

20 of you worked hard to put your testimony together. Not

21 everybody was able to submit written testimony. So some

22 of you are just going to be here to speak. We now have

23 your names. We have your information, because you've

24 already signed up.

25 So I'm going to ask with the indulgence of my

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234564

1 Board a favor, which is I know people are here because

2 they want to be counted on this issue. And I want to tell

3 you, as I said yesterday, that we don't do this by vote.

4 If we did, it would be easy. We would just say how many

5 for, how many against. And it would be over with.

6 But at the Air Resources Board, we're actually

7 trying to craft a rule that will work for the economy and

8 for the environment and move us forward as we're required

9 to do under law. At the same time, not to destroy the

10 situation that's already pretty fragile.

11 So what I'm going to ask you to do is this. And

12 I need the help of staff. I need the staff people who

13 were just here a few minutes ago, Cathlene and company.

14 Okay.

15 So I'm going to ask you if you're a member of a

16 public health organization or you're a citizen and you're

17 here because you want to testify that you want us to clean

18 up the air and to stick with the rule that the staff

19 proposed. Maybe you want to say you don't like giving

20 special treatment to agriculture or whatever, you don't

21 want us to slow down. If that's the gist what of your

22 testimony is, could you raise your hand and be counted? I

23 just want -- or stand up. Stand up and raise your hand

24 and be counted. I've got a lot of people on the list who

25 I think are in that position.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234565

1 Somebody is going to have to go into the overflow

2 room and count them as well if you could. Okay.

3 I'd like to get a count of those people.

4 So you've been counted. Have you got that?

5 Cathleen, have you got a number there you feel? We want

6 to recognize you, and I want to make sure that we've done

7 this. Okay. Got something to write down?

8 And is there somebody in the other room? Sandy

9 went to the over room.

10 So now I'd like to ask those of you who are truck

11 owners or representing the trucking industry and who are

12 here to express your concerns about the rule and are

13 opposed to the rule as the staff proposed it, if you would

14 stand up.

15 There's a lot of you. Okay. This is going to

16 take a little time to do this count. But I'm going to ask

17 Cathleen and your help if you could do that. We'll just

18 take a few minutes. This is going to take a few minutes,

19 but I'm convinced it could save us some time in the long

20 run.

21 OMBUDSMAN QUETIN: Done.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Now if you're with a school

23 district or you're here to talk about buses, can we get

24 you to stand up? I know there's a few of you as well. Do

25 we got somebody doing the count on these? Okay.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234566

1 If you're a device manufacturer or you got

2 equipment that you want to talk about that will help

3 people meet the rule.

4 And I see there is at least one person here

5 who's -- or there was earlier with the Pollution Control

6 Financing Authority to talk about the financing issues.

7 Is there anybody else who's here to talk about the

8 financing piece here?

9 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: There's

10 two.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. We've got two. Is

12 there anybody else who doesn't fit into any of the

13 categories that I just made?

14 Okay. So you know, basically -- can I get the

15 numbers now that you've got them?

16 OMBUDSMAN QUETIN: For the first group, we had 20

17 in this room, plus I heard there are 16 kids somewhere

18 around.

19 And I don't know how many were in the other room,

20 because I believe Sandy went over to count that.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We'll wait for that.

22 OMBUDSMAN QUETIN: And then on the oppose group,

23 we had 92, plus another 16 oppose outside.

24 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Plus nine.

25 OMBUDSMAN QUETIN: So we're going with nine in

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234567

1 the next room. Was that nine opposed?

2 BOARD MEMBER BERG: That was nine opposed, seven

3 for, one school bus, two financing.

4 OMBUDSMAN QUETIN: And no equipment manufacturers

5 were over there?

6 BOARD MEMBER BERG: No.

7 OMBUDSMAN QUETIN: Thank you.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. So this is good.

9 Thank you, Sandy.

10 So now we kind of get a sense of where we are.

11 And I think it's fair to say that, you know, this Board

12 is -- we're in listening mode. We are here. We've been

13 paying attention. We're taking notes.

14 But it isn't really adding to our ability to get

15 into starting to actually ask some questions of the staff

16 and start to work on this rule. Because I think all of us

17 do have some questions. And some of us may want to raise

18 some issues about whether the rule could be adjusted in

19 some of the ways that some of you could like to see us

20 adjust it. It would be helpful if we could get to that

21 while we're all still awake and you're still all here to

22 hear us, too.

23 So I want to ask you if you would at least

24 consider either appointing a spokesperson for your row or

25 not getting up and testifying unless you feel like you

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234568

1 absolutely have to. I don't want to waste your day. But

2 I just want you to know that you don't have to take your

3 time and ours to just get up to the microphone and say

4 your name and tell us that you're against it. Because we

5 already know that. And we've got you on our list and

6 counted you, counted the total numbers. So I can't really

7 do anything other than that. I can't tell you not to

8 testify. It's a public hearing. But I'd like to at least

9 urge you to think about that

10 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I think it's helpful for them

11 to know we did hear between 80 and 90 speakers yesterday

12 as well. So we've heard several of these concerns.

13 And I would also like to echo that having the

14 time to really review this with staff and giving the Board

15 time will also be very helpful for us in our

16 deliberations.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

18 If there's some type of truck or some aspect of

19 the industry that you feel like we haven't heard from, you

20 know, that's of course -- there's always a need for more

21 information. But we've heard a lot now about the

22 owner-operators. We've heard about dump trucks, school

23 buses. So I think we're pretty close to being ready to

24 start to actually get into this meat of this thing.

25 We are going to want to hear more about the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234569

1 financing, because we are concerned. I think every one of

2 us has questions about how the financing is actually going

3 to work.

4 But other than that, I'm just going to go back to

5 the list now and see if we can get some -- move this a

6 little bit faster.

7 Okay. Tessa Woodmansee.

8 If you want to pass, you can just say pass, too.

9 Skip Brown, Enrique Arriola, Betty Plowman, Ester

10 Aguirre, Cecilia Trinidad, Andy Acott, Carlos Haessler,

11 David Norris, Socorro Gaeta are all the ones next on my

12 list.

13 MR. BROWN: Good morning, Madam Chair and Board.

14 My name is Skip Brown, President, Delta

15 Construction Company. Family business, 65 years in the

16 state of California. Also a member of the Off-Raod

17 Implementation Action Group for Small Business.

18 And also I wrote a letter to the Governor back on

19 November 25th, and I provided copies for all you folks. I

20 hope you had a chance to read it. I don't have time to go

21 through it all.

22 The affect on my company is 100 percent of my

23 portable equipment will be illegal to use or sell in the

24 state of California: 100 percent of my trucks, 90 percent

25 of my off-highway. Three regulations all at once.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234570

1 This is a destruction of my capital. I have

2 spent 44 years in this business gaining this equity, and

3 these regulations have destroyed it all at once. Destroys

4 a business model of the entrepreneur who saves money and

5 invests it and provides employment and a tax base for the

6 economy.

7 The economy won't support additional debt at this

8 time even if I could borrow the money. But because my

9 equity base has been destroyed, I can't borrow the money.

10 So I don't qualify for the government programs that you've

11 offered, because I'm too big -- but not to big to fail,

12 but too big -- it's not economically viable for the

13 government to help me fund this, because I don't use the

14 stuff enough. But I guess it's supposed to be

15 economically viable for me to fund it, which it is not.

16 I will meet these requirements as long as I can

17 keep my company alive through attrition. I haven't taken

18 a salary in the last six months. The outlook for me

19 taking a salary throughout 2009 is basically not there.

20 I've trying to keep my people. My people are my

21 assets, not my equipment.

22 But you can help. You can help. One way you can

23 help is you can allow some leniency to those of us that

24 are subjected to more than one rule at a time. I'm

25 subjected to three. These three will definitely put me

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234571

1 out of business.

2 You should also be able to consider that a truck

3 that gets a 1,001 miles is not same that gets 120,000

4 miles a year. Contractors' trucks are support equipment.

5 They go out to the job and park. A parked truck does not

6 emit. I don't care what year it is. It's not emitting.

7 My trucks average eight to 10,000 miles a year. I have

8 six trucks I get 60,000 miles a year.

9 The last thing is --

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thanks. Your through.

11 Thank you.

12 Enrique Arriola.

13 MR. ARRIOLA: Good morning, Board members.

14 My name is Enrique Arriola.

15 I'm for these rules. This issue is not about

16 money for jobs. It's about health, life, and death. If

17 you want to see how California will look without these

18 rules, take a look at China and Mexico City. California

19 will look just like them.

20 Auto drivers in California have smog test ever

21 other year, smog devices, and catalytic converters. And

22 it helped a lot to clean the air. Now all I'm asking is

23 that truckers do their job.

24 Thank you.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234572

1 MR. ARRIOLA: And I have more cards here.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. We'll take them.

3 Ms. Plowman.

4 MS. PLOWMAN: Thank you, Chairman Nichols.

5 It's been almost three years ago since I attended

6 my first CARB meeting. Since then, I joined with your

7 staff, Eric, Tony, Gloria. We traveled hundreds of miles

8 together bringing forth this message to our members in

9 April of 2006. I felt this was a very doable rule. We

10 could clean up. We could help our people receive funding

11 help and certainly achieve these goals.

12 However, since that day, California has changed

13 dramatically. Our unemployment figures are staggering.

14 There's one group you don't have on that, and that happens

15 to be these owner-operators that are no one's employees.

16 We are a devastated industry, and I do not mean to make

17 light of that.

18 I also want to make one correction, because I

19 just was standing up here with the blues. The PM filter

20 cost that you have been given ten to $11,000 are not

21 correct for many, many applications of short-haul trucks

22 who do not generate the heat. We are, in fact, looking at

23 retrofit PM filters more in the neighborhood of $25,000.

24 That is what has made it difficult for us. We are low

25 mileage vehicles that don't quality, although we're

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234573

1 working on that.

2 I would like to give special thanks to your

3 financial departments, John Cano and his staff who have

4 worked with us to try to put together loan programs.

5 Unfortunately for our industry right now, it's a little

6 too little, too late. Some of the incentive funding that

7 has been given out by CCAT, which is a great, great air

8 district in the state, some of these people that receive

9 funding have had those trucks now prepossessed. They've

10 had to return them to the dealerships. Some with even 70

11 percent incentive funding. That is how bad the industry

12 is today. Thank you.

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

14 Ester Aguirre, Cecilia Trinidad, Andy Acott.

15 MS. WOODMANSEE: Yes, thank you.

16 I'm here because my family and I moved next to

17 bus depot in San Jose. And we found out that there was an

18 anti-idling law. And it was very difficult to enforce

19 that law.

20 And so when we hear the trucking company say, you

21 know, we've done what we can. We've been following the

22 idling rule. That isn't true. The idling rule has not

23 been working in our communities.

24 So we had to call the police. They didn't know

25 about the rule. Here we are the third largest city in San

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234574

1 Jose didn't know about the rule.

2 And so we contact the police. The police gave

3 our phone number to the corporation. We've got harassed.

4 We got a phone call saying, "You better shut up about our

5 pollution or we'll harass you with noise." And that's

6 what happened. For two years we were harassed with

7 blasting of that their horns 24/7 from every personal

8 vehicle and every bus as they went out 24/7.

9 And this is what's happening that -- the

10 enforcement of the idling rule, the police didn't know.

11 Now we call the police about the smoking vehicle.

12 The police don't come. Even though the police are

13 supposed to be the enforcement arm. BAAQMD is supposed

14 to -- Bay Air Quality Management District is supposed to

15 help us with idling. They don't deal with it.

16 So these are the load that has been on our

17 family's back to try to enforce the rules. And dealing

18 with diesel idling in our neighborhoods and having no

19 support from the BAAQMD, from the police, and even from

20 CARB. You know, they know they're idling as they're

21 cleaning their buses. And yet nothing has changed.

22 So this is why we need a rule that isn't

23 self-regulatory or expecting even the agencies to enforce

24 it. Because it's not happening in our communities.

25 But so we need these rules that change the type

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234575

1 of engines and protect our health. And this is very

2 important for our neighbors in our community. And my

3 husband who has a chronic cough and myself suffering with

4 signs of multiple sclerosis that they say are attributed

5 to the diesel emissions. And neighbors with cancer in our

6 communities, many neighbors. San Jose being an area of

7 high impact. We need more strong rules. Thank you.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Carlos Haessler.

9 MS. WOODMANSEE: My name is Tessa Woodmansee.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We got your name. Thank

11 you. It's okay. Thank you.

12 MR. ACOTT: Andy Acott. I represent Laden

13 Composites. We are a manufacturer of truck and trailers

14 Aerodynamics. Have been for nearly 30 years.

15 Probably haven't heard much of our company, but

16 you see our products every single day on the roads. Since

17 1994, we developed the first ever molded plastic trailer

18 skirts. And that ran on a two trailers for over ten years

19 and probably had over a million miles on both the

20 trailers.

21 Today, we make an injection-molded plastic skirt.

22 And with it being tested, SA Type II, type III wind tunnel

23 testing, tract testing, fleet testing, we have shown in

24 excess of six percent in fuel savings.

25 Regardless of all of this technology and all of

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234576

1 these statements, the real truth is in the fleet use. And

2 I can tell you that the fleets that use our product today

3 are very happy with it. The drivers rant and rave about

4 the benefits, including the ability, the improved

5 stability, the lowest splash and spray, the safety factor

6 of that. But more so than anything, the fleets are saving

7 money. This is a fuel saving, cost saving, emission

8 lowering device.

9 Thank you very much.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

11 Carlos Haessler.

12 David Norris.

13 MR. NORRIS: Good morning, Madam Chair, Board and

14 staff. My name is David Norris. I'm the Director of

15 Transportation at Lakeport Unified School District. And

16 I'm representing specifically children in our district

17 that rely on the yellow school bus to get to school.

18 We transported over 650 students daily. Most

19 live beyond two miles from the school. Many from Indian

20 reservations and low income areas where there's no

21 adequate personal transportation. Sixty-five percent of

22 our students are from low income families.

23 I have been in the industry for 27 years. And

24 when I started, we were able to transport most of our

25 students. We've now been forced -- due to budget, we've

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234577

1 been forced to increase walking distances up to two miles.

2 With midyear cuts, schools will be unable to come

3 up with the match funds for bus replacement. The only way

4 we can comply with this regulation is if the buses are

5 fully funded.

6 Districts that do not get -- our district is in

7 Lake County. And we are a full attainment air quality

8 district, so we cannot access the AB 928 money.

9 Therefore, the districts would be responsible for the

10 $25,000 match, which I've already spoke to many of the

11 districts -- three of our districts in our county that

12 already got okayed for the grants. And they are not going

13 to be able to come up with the $25,000. So the bus is

14 just -- that money will be sent back and those buses won't

15 be rolling.

16 So today I recommend that when you're looking at

17 school bus retrofits and bus replacement that we go fully

18 toward replacing with new school buses. Because many of

19 the school buses they'd be putting retrofit devices on are

20 either half to three-quarters of their life expectancy

21 already gone through that.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

23 MR. NORRIS: Please fully fund the school busses

24 so we can keep kids coming to school. Thank you.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Socorro Gaeta, Brian Cohen,

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234578

1 Michael Rae.

2 MR. REA: Hello. I'm Michael Rae, and I'm with

3 the West County Transportation Agency. We're a joint

4 powers agreement of 16 school districts in Sonoma County.

5 I'm also representing CASTO, California Association of

6 School Transportation Officials. I'm their Governmental

7 Relations Chair.

8 We fully support the health and safety of

9 students that we transport and students all through

10 California. But we oppose the rule primarily because

11 there isn't funding existing.

12 In California, school transportation operations

13 were fully funded over 30 years ago. Twenty-five years

14 ago, the State capped what we received for school

15 transportation, and we only sporadically receive capital

16 funding.

17 In California, because of that funding problem,

18 where over 55 percent of our funds are coming from school

19 district general funds and there's this incredible

20 pressure on school districts to utilize their funds for

21 testing and accountability standards, districts are making

22 the tough decision as to whether or not the buses are

23 going to roll or kids are going to come to classrooms.

24 And in all cases, districts are reducing school

25 transportation or eliminating that service.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234579

1 As a policy-making body, you and we should be

2 working together to figure out ways at the highest levels

3 of government to train our students, our next generation

4 to ride school buses and mass transit rather than turning

5 them away and showing them the only option is individuals

6 and single cars.

7 We would ask you and urge you to look at your

8 staff recommendation to monitor the progress of school

9 transportation with these potential new rules. And rather

10 than that, adopt rules only when subsequent phases of the

11 Lower Emission School Bus Program funding are available

12 for us.

13 Thank you very much.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

15 Don Anair.

16 MR. ANAIR: Good morning. My name is Don Anair.

17 I'm a Senior Vehicles Analyst with the Union of Concerned

18 Scientists.

19 I'd just like to start off by stating our strong

20 support for both of the regulations. Also want to present

21 two additional items in addition to my comments.

22 First is a letter from leading California

23 authorities and public health and research expressing

24 support for strong measures. These include the dean of

25 the School of Public of Health at UCLA. Also the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234580

1 California Conference of Local Health Officers. In

2 addition, we have a petition from 5700 California

3 residents supporting the reg.

4 I want to offer some specific comments on the

5 greenhouse gas portion of the regulation you are

6 considering today.

7 The proposal is a great start. It gets

8 reductions from our existing fleet of tractors and

9 trailers. It will create clean tech jobs. And it will

10 also save truckers money at the fuel pump. We urge you to

11 adopt this regulation today.

12 But a more aggressive standard is possible with

13 the technology that's on the market today, and as we've

14 seen outside actually.

15 And we identified in recent analysis that making

16 full use of these products could improve the emission

17 reductions by 50 percent. According to staff estimates,

18 50 percent increases in the regulation would result in 3.5

19 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emission reductions

20 in 2020. So a significant improvement.

21 All of these are cost effective. They can be

22 achieved with today's technology. We estimated over

23 $30,000 net cost savings with these technologies with

24 payback periods as short as two years.

25 So bottom line, I have two recommendations. One

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234581

1 to -- well, three.

2 Adopt the regulation today. We believe that you

3 could expand the tire requirements to additional tractor

4 and trailer types.

5 And finally, we would ask that the Board resolve

6 to come back to this issue in one year's time to get

7 additional reductions. And specifically to look at

8 tractor-trailer combinations that have not been included

9 in today's proposal and also for new trucks and trailers

10 not effected by the regulation today.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. Thanks for your

12 suggestions.

13 Anna Sanchez.

14 MS. SANCHEZ: Anna Sanchez with the Merced

15 Mariposa County Asthma Coalition.

16 I'm here as a single mom. This is Juliana.

17 Before she was one, she had RSV. She was intubated in an

18 air bubble chamber.

19 At two, severe eczema, the doctor correlated that

20 with pollution. She's on a regular asthma medication to

21 do breathing treatments, so on, so forth. I have

22 medicines, hospital visits. I have sleepless nights.

23 Her father has chosen to return back to the Navy.

24 Stay in to help with the expenses. It's not easy. The

25 health care system isn't all that great.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234582

1 I understand that truckers may lose jobs. Some

2 of them may go out of business. But nobody can replace

3 Juliana. Whatever financial propositions you're giving

4 them and if this doesn't go through, help asthmatic

5 parents who deal with asthma all the time. Kids are

6 losing their life all the time.

7 And I'm just wondering -- I'm doing my job as a

8 mom. You guys as the Air Resources Board to do your job

9 to clear up the air. My whole family suffers from asthma,

10 I do, my siblings. And we just ask for you to pass a

11 strong diesel truck rule.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

13 Mary-Michael Rawling.

14 MS. RAWLING: Good morning, Madam Chair.

15 Pleasure to be here today.

16 Mary-Michael Rawling from the Merced Mariposa

17 County Asthma Coalition here to support a strong diesel

18 truck rule today that gives all Californians clean air to

19 breathe.

20 This is an exciting day, because before you is

21 the lynch pin that our SIPS are based on. And like Mr.

22 Goldstene said yesterday, there is no Plan B for this

23 rule.

24 A year ago, we were engulfed in our valley ozone

25 plan. And although we left the table dissatisfied, we are

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234583

1 still hopeful that your Board is still committed to 2017

2 and a shrinking block box, because we are still committed

3 to helping you. Because without your leadership, 22

4 percent of children in the San Joaquin Valley along with

5 tens of thousands of adults with asthma -- a chronic

6 disease that once you get it, you don't grow out of --

7 will continue to suffer.

8 And although I support this rule today, I'm

9 concerned about the special provisions proposed and delays

10 in compliance for agricultural vehicles, especially the

11 inclusion of pesticides, fertilizers, and logging trucks

12 on this list. These vehicles are older and release more

13 emissions than your vehicles. People exposed to these

14 trucks, mostly people from the San Joaquin Valley, should

15 have the same benefit from this rule as Californians in

16 other regions.

17 Allowing some of this fleet until 2023 to come

18 into compliance is six years past the date we have all

19 come to hope for.

20 And finally, it's been my pleasure to collect

21 these from Merced County community residents over the past

22 several months. I'll leave them here for you today. But

23 I want to leave you with the assurance you do have a lot

24 of support in the community for this rule.

25 Thank you very much.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234584

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. Cameron King.

2 MR. KING: Good morning, Madam Chair, members of

3 the Board. Cameron King with the California Association

4 of Winegrape Growers.

5 I want to join, in the interest of brevity today,

6 my colleagues in agriculture in thanking your staff as

7 well as Board members for the countless hours to work on

8 quantifying and deliberating over an agricultural

9 provision section that is flexible and efficient and

10 feasible in meeting SIP requirements and commitments that

11 have been made by yourselves and also to provide an

12 opportunity for small family farmers in the state of

13 California the opportunity to do their part to clean air

14 and also maintain employees and businesses for folks.

15 So in the interest of brevity, I want to say

16 thank you again for the opportunity. I know there are

17 some concerns about the provisions. But I think that we

18 are stepping up to the plate as agriculture to do our part

19 to help clean the air of California. And we want to thank

20 you again.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

22 Susan King.

23 MS. KING: Good morning, Chairman Nichols and

24 members of the Board.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You need to speak into the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234585

1 microphone.

2 MS. KING: I'm Susan King, and I've been an

3 active registered nurse for 37 years. I presently work at

4 Methodist Hospital in the recovery room. I'm a member of

5 the California Nurses Association. On behalf of the

6 85,000 members of CNA, I'm here to speak to you regarding

7 the proposed California clean truck rule.

8 These professional nurses are in the front lines

9 of the battle against such diseases as asthma, bronchitis,

10 and of course lung cancer. Diesel pollution is a

11 significant health hazard to everyone, especially to

12 children whose lungs are still developing, to the elderly,

13 and those with preexisting health conditions.

14 For the past 20 years, my family and I have lived

15 and worked in Sacramento. Unfortunately, our city is

16 rated one of the worst cities in the United States for air

17 pollution.

18 My oldest son had asthma growing up here in

19 Sacramento, needed medication, and even had to be taken to

20 the emergency room during one attack.

21 Today, my five-year-old granddaughter also has

22 asthma. Because of air pollution that we all breathe

23 every day, she has visited our emergency room so many

24 times that I have lost track of the number. At one point

25 last year, the emergency room doctor feared he would even

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234586

1 have to intubate her. Thank God that action was averted.

2 I'm just one of the millions of parents and

3 grandparents who must keep a vigil in order to keep my

4 loved ones safe. Passing this regulation will reduce the

5 number of emergency room visits and hospitalizations that

6 are clogging our already strained health care system.

7 Delay in passing this regulation will cause more illness,

8 more deaths, and will add more subsequent cost to the

9 health care system of this state.

10 California nurses are proud to join the American

11 Lung Association in urging you to adopt these regulations

12 now.

13 Thank you very much.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

15 Mike Paparian.

16 MR. PAPARIAN: Thank you, Madam Chair, members.

17 I'm Mike Paparian, Executive Director of the California

18 Pollution Control Financing Authority.

19 We've been providing low-cost innovative

20 financing to California businesses since 1972. We're

21 chaired by the State Treasurer.

22 Among our programs, we have the California

23 Capital Access Program for small businesses, or CalCAP.

24 We worked very closely with your staff to design a

25 financial assistance to help truck owners meet the new

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234587

1 regulations.

2 Our participating banks indicate this program

3 will work. It will provide financing to those who need it

4 and might otherwise have trouble getting financing. And

5 it will do so at costs below what they would otherwise

6 pay.

7 Through this program, $350 million or more in

8 loans will be available to small fleets. The loans will

9 be for new trucks, used trucks, SmartWay products, and

10 exhaust retrofits.

11 Our ARB Truck Loan Program will work through our

12 57 participating financial institutions to provide loans

13 up to one-and-a-half million dollars to businesses with

14 fewer than 100 employees and ten million dollars in annual

15 revenues.

16 The loans will be made to truck owners the banks

17 believe will be able to pay the loans back but who fall

18 under the bank's normal loan underwriting criteria.

19 Our banks are indicating strong support for this

20 program. And to quote one of their letters to you, "Our

21 bank will extend credit to borrowers who might not

22 otherwise have access to financing unreasonable terms,

23 thereby helping the bank, the borrowers, the economy, and

24 the environment."

25 Other banks indicate they will be able to do this

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234588

1 at rates that are lower interest rates and with fewer no

2 fees than they might otherwise charge.

3 We'll be rolling out this program in a few

4 months. And I'm very excited about working with your

5 staff to implement this program using our financial

6 expertise to help assure that the State's clean air goals

7 are met.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

9 Any questions?

10 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Madam Chairman, just a

11 quick question. This is a new program for you; correct?

12 MR. PAPARIAN: We have our existing CalCAP

13 Program this will be part of.

14 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: And CalCAP is --

15 MR. PAPARIAN: California Capital Access Program.

16 We've lent out since the early 1990s about $1.2

17 billion to California small businesses.

18 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: So you have a pretty good

19 idea of how fast you can get this money out to those who

20 truly need it. And do they access it through their local

21 bank, is that --

22 MR. PAPARIAN: They access it through our

23 participating financial institutions. We have 57 banks

24 participating in the program right now. And we do expect

25 that to grow.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234589

1 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Okay. Thank you very

2 much.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thanks a lot. Looking

4 forward to working with you.

5 Yes, Cathleen.

6 OMBUDSMAN QUETIN: I'd like to introduce Sarah

7 Sharp with the Fresno Metro Ministry. And she has

8 gathered together a large group of people who were going

9 to speak individually but now will speak with only two

10 voices and with -- well, I should say three because

11 they're using an interpreter.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

13 MS. SHARP: Good morning, Chairman.

14 Out of respect for your time and the request you

15 made, we wanted to combine our testimonies. So we will

16 have just two spokespeople speaking on behalf of Fresno

17 Metro Ministry and LUCA, Latinos United for Clean Air.

18 They will be Jenny Saklar and Mario Talavera.

19 MS. SAKLAR: Good morning.

20 On April 30th, the San Joaquin Valley Air

21 Pollution Control District adopted a PM2.5 plan that

22 relies heavily on the successful implementation and

23 enforcement of the diesel truck rule before you today.

24 At the time, ARB reported that for our region

25 approximately 1,300 annual premature deaths are linked to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234590

1 PM2.5 exposure.

2 To offer hope and to express my concerns about

3 our air basin continually failing to meet federal air

4 quality standards, I created these prayer flags. Each

5 flag represents ten San Joaquin Valley premature deaths

6 linked to PM exposure.

7 Today, we're talking diesel pollution. Today,

8 I'm still praying. Conservative estimates link 250 San

9 Joaquin Valley premature deaths to diesel pollution

10 exposure. Imagine a stand of flags two times this length.

11 The diesel truck rule before you is essential to

12 cleaning up California's air and the air within our

13 region. I ask that you adopt a rule that will obtain the

14 emissions reductions needed to provide a margin of safety

15 in my region for meeting federal SIP requirements.

16 I also ask that you reject the agricultural

17 vehicle provisions as proposed in the regulation. We need

18 a rule that provides much greater health protections from

19 ag related diesel sources. This can be done by reducing

20 the mileage threshold, limiting the fleet size to three

21 vehicles or fewer, requiring PM filters, and not defining

22 farm chemical trucks as agricultural trucks.

23 We cannot afford to delay clean air. We must

24 take action. Our health cannot wait. Relief from the $6

25 billion a year related health care costs cannot wait. And

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234591

1 valley SIP goals and commitments cannot wait.

2 Thank you for moving forward with this critical

3 regulation. It will clean our air, reduce public health

4 costs dramatically, improve the lives of so many, and

5 protect our climate.

6 Please reduce the 250 San Joaquin Valley annual

7 premature diesel deaths and the thousands across

8 California.

9 Thank you.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. I did give you

11 a couple extra seconds there because you're a group.

12 MR. TALAVERA: (Through interpreter) Good

13 morning, Chair and table. My name is Mario Talavera.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: It's okay. We can

15 understand enough Spanish to get the name of the person

16 and the organization.

17 MR. TALAVERA: (Through interpreter) I'm here

18 because I'm the father of four children. And four of them

19 had asthma. And they have been impacted by the emissions.

20 My second child which is 17 now is in coma since

21 he was 12 for a brain stroke. We're in the process of

22 finding out if it was for the emissions. And I have him

23 back at home.

24 So that's why I've asked for a fast decision

25 without looking at the economical impact. Because in my

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234592

1 case, I'm not interested in the economical part, but

2 health.

3 Let's make a balance. Let's compromise. We

4 don't want you to take the trucks out of the freeways.

5 But please enforce the rules. So they're moving around

6 freely. So please don't put this information in your

7 desks or in the back burner. Just move on on this,

8 please.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

10 MS. SHARP: We also have some more cards to turn

11 in, a lot.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Very good. Thank you.

13 I believe next on my list is Dan Sartell.

14 MR. SARTELL: Thank you for your time. My name

15 is Dan Sartell. I'm the Operations Manager for Button

16 Transportation based in Dixon, California.

17 My experience comes to you as one of the largest

18 beneficiaries of the Clean Air Incentive Programs that we

19 have in Sacramento. I'm going to state that we're

20 probably one of the cleanest trucking companies in

21 California based on the fact I can haul 58,000 pounds with

22 2009 model year trucks.

23 We've done our part. I'm a little emotional,

24 because I won all the money for the early grant money in

25 Sacramento. Turned in my paperwork. The staff denied our

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234593

1 trucks, because somebody they didn't do the paperwork

2 right. Looked at the DMV records and believes a big-rig

3 truck has a gross vehicle weight rating of 33,000 pounds,

4 when 90 percent of all the agricultural trucks in the

5 state operate under the gross combination weight rating of

6 80,000 pounds.

7 So my 1995 trucks that I was granted money by you

8 folks, did all the paperwork that you wanted me to do,

9 were denied because some person did not do their homework.

10 So we've done our part. We're $1.6 million my

11 company is putting up to help this problem. All this

12 effort and yet, with all due sympathy to those with the

13 health problems, you know, I'm personally offended that

14 they're blaming us for this when there's lots of people

15 out here trying.

16 And I apologize for talking like this. But I had

17 notes. And I've sat here. I thought I could help you.

18 And to help you, my last comment is Dr. Telles

19 asked yesterday for staff to say how many companies will

20 go out have business. So far my count is eleven as of

21 today. Thanks.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, sir. I hope we

23 can get some follow-up information about this particular

24 situation from the staff. If somebody can talk to this

25 gentleman and see what the situation is on the grants, I

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234594

1 would appreciate it very much. Thank you.

2 Keith Pruett. Mr. Pruett.

3 Okay. Who is this?

4 MR. COHEN: My name is Brian Cohen. I stand in

5 favor of both dirty diesel rules.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You weren't here when I

7 called your name.

8 MR. COHEN: I'm sorry. I just very recently

9 arrived in Sacramento.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All right. Cathleen, we

11 had a rule that when people didn't show up when their name

12 was called, that was it. The's the only way we're going

13 to get through this. So thank you. Go ahead.

14 MR. COHEN: Appreciate it. Thank you for your

15 indulgence.

16 Simply stated, our economy can no longer

17 withstand the tremendous drain of dirty diesels. If any

18 member of CARB is thinking about voting against these

19 rules, I and I'm sure many citizen would like answers from

20 that member to the following questions:

21 Without these rules, how does CARB proposes to

22 compensate the employers and families of 4500 people who

23 die every year because there are no dirty diesel rules?

24 Without these rules, what's CARB's plan to

25 compensate employers for the 450,000 days of lost work

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234595

1 because there are no dirty diesel rules?

2 Without these rules, how does CARB propose to pay

3 the $28 billion lost each and every year just in the South

4 Coast and San Joaquin Valley regions alone due to air

5 pollution?

6 Like so many, work obligations prevented my wife

7 from attending today to express her strong support for

8 these rules. My wife has asthma. Without these rules,

9 how does CARB propose to compensate my wife for her life

10 insurance ratings, monthly prescription costs, and annual

11 medical bills and co-pays?

12 Without these rules, how does CARB intend to pay

13 for the 71,000 cases of asthma and other respiratory

14 symptoms because there are no dirty diesel rules?

15 Without these rules, how would CARB propose to

16 pay for the emergency room visits, non-fatal heart

17 attacks, and hospital emissions caused because there are

18 no dirty diesel rules?

19 In today's economy with lost jobs, people often

20 lose their health insurance as well. How would ARB

21 propose to pay for the health problems caused by dirty

22 diesels when one has no job, no health insurance, and

23 there are no dirty diesel rules to protect them.

24 These rule are late in the making. These rules

25 take too long to implement. By continuing the human costs

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234596

1 and the tremendous financial drain on our economy, on the

2 people of the state of California is just not acceptable.

3 I urge quick passage, fast and full

4 implementation of these rules. And even though I live in

5 the central valley -- no. Because I live in central

6 valley, I urge no exceptions for agricultural vehicles.

7 Thank you again, Madam Chair.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

9 Keith Pruett.

10 MS. PRUETT: Actually, I'm going to consolidate

11 for my husband Keith and speak for both of us.

12 My name is Carol Pruett. I'm from Vacaville. My

13 husband is awe one truck owner-operator construction. We

14 sold the truck that was my income when work dropped off in

15 August of 2007. We thought we would catch up in 2008, but

16 work did not start until July and then came to a

17 screeching halt November 1st.

18 It was very hard to save anything for winter

19 after paying five dollars a gallon for fuel.

20 My husband upgraded to a 2004 truck only to find

21 out we will have to spend upward of $20,000 to retrofit.

22 I can't save for winter in this economy. How

23 will we pay for this by 2012?

24 Yesterday, the Governor said we are headed for

25 economic Armageddon. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234597

1 clean air. I'm a five-year volunteer with the American

2 Cancer Society for life. According to the American Cancer

3 Society and NCI, lung cancer is on the decline in

4 California according to a report November 25th, 2008. The

5 report shows significant differences in lung cancer death

6 rates in different parts of the United States. In

7 California, for instance, the lung cancer rate dropped by

8 2.8 percent per year among men between 1996 and 2005.

9 They can see that in the areas of the country

10 where smoking and tobacco use are intrenched in daily

11 life, men and women continue to pay a price with higher

12 incidences of death rates for many types of cancer. This

13 type of geographic variation in smoking related cancer is

14 due to smoking behaviors, not regional environmental

15 factors. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a doctor or

16 scientist.

17 The point I'm trying to make everyone, is always

18 blaming the trucks or truckers. How many of the 31,000

19 teamsters in the surveys were smokers or former smokers?

20 Education and preventative screening about

21 smoking is working. But according to the ACS, if we lose

22 our jobs and we lose our health care, these cancers will

23 be on the rise again. Please don't put us out of work.

24 And if you must pass this rule, please give us more time

25 to recover from this horrible economy. Thank you.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234598

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

2 Betsy Reifsnider.

3 MS. REIFSNIDER: Good morning. Thank you, Madam

4 Chair and members of the Board.

5 My name is Betsy Reifsnider. I'm the

6 Environmental Justice Coordinator with the Stockton

7 Diocese. And we serve the people of San Joaquin,

8 Stanislaus, Tuolumne, Calaveras, Alpine, and Mono County.

9 We are part of the coalition of environmental

10 justice and public health groups who are urging you to

11 pass the regulations today without delay. And I also will

12 be submitting a number of postcards.

13 In the interest of time, I'll reduce my comments

14 to just two points, which I don't think have been made

15 yet.

16 Number one, pollution from particular matter

17 jeopardizes the local economies in San Joaquin and

18 Stanislaus County specifically. Dr. Jane Hall's study

19 found if federal PM and ozone standards were met, San

20 Joaquin county would save $671 million. Stanislaus County

21 would save $686 million.

22 The central valley already has some of the

23 highest poverty rates in California. In San Joaquin and

24 Stanislaus County, the poverty rate stands at 15 percent.

25 And the child poverty rate is at 20 percent according to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-234599

1 the California budget project. Twenty percent of our

2 non-elderly residents do not have health insurance. And

3 one in six of them have asthma. So our people cannot

4 afford to subsidize these high levels of air pollution any

5 longer.

6 And my final point is that central valley

7 agriculture will suffer if greenhouse gas emissions,

8 including from heavy-duty vehicles, are not strictly

9 regulated.

10 According to the Union of Concerned Scientists,

11 high value fruit crops such as almonds, cherries, and

12 apricots may no longer be able to be produced in

13 California. Global warming is expected to impair

14 winegrape growing throughout the central valley by mid

15 century. And I mention this because thousands of the

16 people when attend the parishes and the Stockton Diocese

17 rely on these farm jobs.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Time. We do have your

19 written testimony. Thank you, Ms. Reifsnider.

20 Irvin Dawid.

21 MR. DAWID: Good morning, Chairperson Nichols and

22 Board members. My name is Irvin Dawid. I reside in Palo

23 Alto.

24 Here is a handful of cards from Californians who

25 feel as strongly as I do about the urgency of cleaning up

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345100

1 trucks and buses responsible for diesel toxic emissions

2 severely impacting the health of all of us, especially

3 those living along busy roads and highways as I do. The

4 sooner these emissions are lessened if not eliminated, the

5 sooner all of us will enjoy better health.

6 However, I have listened to the concerns of those

7 who are opposed to this essential regulation because of

8 the costs it will impose on them potentially even costing

9 them their livelihood. How can anyone not be sympathetic?

10 I think the proper response to those legitimate

11 concerns is not delay or weaken the regulation, but rather

12 to increase the funding available to comply with the

13 regulation and to collect the funding in an appropriate

14 manner. Rather than yet another bond or increasing

15 registration fees, what better source than a very modest

16 diesel fee with all revenues deposited into a new account

17 called the on-road diesel account for the sole purpose of

18 assisting compliance with this regulation.

19 While it may not be in your purview to impose

20 such a diesel fee in conjunction with the diesel

21 regulation, your recommendation with support from both the

22 environmental and trucking community will go a long ways.

23 Thank you.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, Mr. Dawid.

25 Steve Shamp.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345101

1 MR. SHAMP: Good morning. I'm Steve Shamp of

2 Customer Truck Service in Eureka.

3 I just want to state, you know, most people in

4 here -- everybody in here does basically want clean air.

5 The problem that I have in this scenario is it's not a one

6 case scenario fits all.

7 We're 250 miles from the closest area that you

8 get to that has Sacramento and San Francisco. So my

9 customers being faced with this issue when the air is not

10 the same quality is a pretty good hardship on them.

11 I have personally tried to apply for Carl Moyer

12 twice and been refused just because of where we are. We

13 are too far away. We don't qualify.

14 So in listening, talking about funding, one of my

15 concerns about the funding issue is you want to be careful

16 not to create a competitive disadvantage in this scenario.

17 The proposal is to give people that wouldn't normally

18 qualify and give them the advantage. And yet my company

19 pays medical and health and retirement and everything else

20 that we can give to our employees, which are our biggest

21 asset. And I hate to see something come in to undercut us

22 and we have to take that away from these people. And I

23 don't think that's correct.

24 I think the DTCC is a better uniform program for

25 this environment. And I would also think that that might

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345102

1 help with some of these people in the construction

2 industry where they can use this equipment, the 2004,

3 2005, 2006. You know, when these people bought this

4 equipment, it was in compliance. We didn't do anything

5 wrong. The rules are changing. We're trying to figure

6 out how we can comply with what you want and still

7 survive. Thank you.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

9 Juvenal Bermudez, Irma Medellin, Wafaa Aborashed,

10 Justin Oldfield, Bill Allen, Sofia Sarabia.

11 Ms. SARABIA: Hello. My name is Sophia Sarabia,

12 and I'm here on behalf of the Center on Race, Poverty and

13 the Environment.

14 And I and my organization supports a strong truck

15 rule without an ag provision, exemption, whatever you want

16 to call it. The point is there is no rationale basis for

17 this provision. No other industry has this exemption, and

18 ag trucks are no different than any other trucks that are

19 being required to follow this rule.

20 This just goes along with the history that ag has

21 had in getting out of rules and regulations for clean air.

22 Just yesterday, AB 32, the Scoping Plan was passed by this

23 Board with no ag provisions in it. You may remember the

24 forklift rule which ag got an exemption from.

25 These exemptions or provisions disregard the SB

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345103

1 700 series which is based on a recognition that ag should

2 not be exempted from these rules for clean air. It is

3 time for agriculture to take its part in cleaning up the

4 air.

5 And lastly, some of the names that you called

6 were people that were supposed to come from the valley who

7 could not make it because of the fog. And on their

8 behalf, I would say that this ag provision impacts those

9 communities, those rural, poor, minority communities more

10 than any other community.

11 And staff's looking at the impacts of these

12 communities and the ag provision on these communities

13 after the provision has already passed is not good enough.

14 It needs to be done beforehand. It needs to be done

15 before any sort of rule would be passed with this

16 provision, because these communities are impacted. And

17 it's on their health and on their backs that ag keeps

18 getting these provisions. So thank you.

19 I also have cards.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Thank you.

21 Bill Magavern.

22 MR. MAGAVERN: Good morning. Bill Magavern,

23 director of Sierra Club California in strong support of

24 both rules. I appreciate the work of the staff and the

25 Board to get you this far. And I know you know that we

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345104

1 need the rule to meet our clean air obligations to have

2 any chance of having healthy air at the time when we need

3 to, which really has been too long already.

4 And I know that we're all struggling with

5 economic impact. I was really struck yesterday in the

6 staff presentation by the calculation that the benefits of

7 the rule outweigh the cost by a factor of greater than ten

8 to one. So it seems to me that this is a rule that we

9 cannot afford not to adopt for the state of California.

10 We also support the recommendations of the Union

11 of Concerned Scientists for further improvements in the

12 greenhouse gas rule, which is also going to be beneficial.

13 And I think the Governor has really made it clear

14 that California can have a healthy environment and a

15 growing economy at the same time. And I think that you

16 need to take this step to really make that happen for us.

17 And I thank you for your work. And I'll hand in some

18 postcards.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

20 Greg Pile.

21 MR. PILE: That's me. I'm Greg Pile.

22 Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you

23 this morning. I'm from Chaparral Honey based in San Diego

24 County. Beekeeper and mechanic. We manage between 10 and

25 12,000 colonies in that area. We have 12 trucks we run,

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345105

1 and five of them are pre-1990.

2 I, too, am for clean air. If I wasn't for clean

3 air, I would probably smoke.

4 But I am troubled with some of the language in

5 here as far as beekeepers are concerned. I spoke with one

6 of your representatives yesterday and wasn't sure about

7 beekeepers like ourselves, whether we fit into the

8 agricultural exemption. And I would ask that some of that

9 be clarified and specified for our industry and our

10 business.

11 I'm also frustrated by this rule, because at the

12 stroke of your pen, my assets, my older trucks have been

13 trashed, turned into toxic waste. Nobody wants them. I

14 can't sell them, even at a reduced price. I have two of

15 them I'm trying to get rid of in anticipation of this, and

16 I can't sell them. Nobody wants them. The truck guy I

17 just brought a truck from, he doesn't want them.

18 Maybe Mexico wants them. But as far as I

19 remember, Mexico is right next door. And didn't know if

20 we wanted them running those trucks, if they're that bad

21 here.

22 I'm taking possession of a new truck on Monday.

23 First new truck our company has bought in 40-plus year

24 history. And we did it to try to comply with this

25 regulation. It fries me that I have spend $110,000 to get

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345106

1 this new truck that's three times what I normally spend to

2 outfit our company with used trucks. And I can't buy used

3 trucks right now that work to comply.

4 I'm frustrated by this. I'm tired of California

5 thinking we have to be first and a leader in all of these

6 things. It's constricting and restricting to good

7 business folks. And we have a reputation here in

8 California, and it's not a good one, that is of driving

9 business out of the state because of burdening

10 regulations.

11 If you put this rule into force, and taking

12 account our economy's in the toilet right now, this is not

13 good.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Your time s is up. Thank

15 you.

16 What's the answer on beekeeping? Is it

17 agriculture or isn't it?

18 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

19 WHITE: It certainly is. I'm looking through our

20 definition to see exactly how that would fit in. I'll

21 have an answer for you.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

23 Andy Katz.

24 MR. KATZ: Thanks, Chair Nichols and Board

25 members. I'm Andy Katz, representing Breathe California.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345107

1 And we're a lung health organization that's very concerned

2 about the serious health consequences that are happening

3 as a result of diesel toxic pollution that's emitted in

4 our state. Seventy percent of the cumulative air risk

5 comes from diesel pollution.

6 The Bay Area Air Quality Management District and

7 South Coast Air District have done comprehensive maps of

8 cumulative pollution. And it's no consequence when you

9 look at where the highest concentrations are, they're near

10 the highways. They're near the routes that trucks are

11 going. There's because trucks are such a large

12 contributor to this problem.

13 Four-thousand-five-hundred premature deaths every

14 year. And this rule will go a long way in preventing

15 premature deaths, cancer, heart attack, asthma attacks.

16 California needs this rule, because we're paying

17 with our health. Not only does my employer lose out

18 because of health insurance costs skyrocketing, because of

19 increased cancer and asthma attacks, but we're paying with

20 our health. And that wasn't reflected in the studies

21 either.

22 What I want to encourage the Board to do is to

23 not delay the implementation of this rule. There have

24 been many workshops, and your staff has been very, very

25 flexible in listening to what is the industry saying. And

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345108

1 there were revisions. There were very serious revisions

2 that adjusted flexible compliance mechanisms. And the

3 rule is very improved because of your staff's willingness

4 to work with the industry.

5 But there isn't any more margin of error. What

6 the rule as written does is it really barely meets the SIP

7 commitments and it barely gets there. So delaying any

8 implementation dates seriously threatens non-attainment in

9 the South Coast and central valley where the air quality

10 is the worst and ozone is high and particulate exposure is

11 high. California can't afford dirty air any longer and

12 the law may not allow it either.

13 Thank you.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

15 Vania Ahamdi.

16 MS. AHAMDI: My name is Vania Ahamdi. I'm here

17 representing Healthy 880 communities, and we are a member

18 of Ditching Dirty Diesel.

19 We serve communities along the 880 corridor. And

20 those communities are disproportionately affected by

21 diesel pollution. They are paying for these effects of

22 diesel with their health. They're paying for it through

23 their pockets, trying to pay for medicine. Their children

24 are paying for it by not being able to sleep well at night

25 because of asthma.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345109

1 And we urge you to adopt both regulations. And

2 thank you.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

4 Maria Barajas, Maxine Benson, Christine Cordero.

5 We're getting behind on bringing people forward

6 here.

7 MS. CORDERO: Good morning. Thank you for having

8 us here.

9 My name is Christine Cordero with the Center for

10 Environmental Health as well as a member of the Ditching

11 Dirty Diesel Collaborative. We work with communities all

12 over the Bay Area to reduce diesel exposures in low income

13 communities of color.

14 We keep hearing it said that we have to wait

15 until the economy recovers before we fix the problem of

16 dirty trucks and buses polluting our communities.

17 However, delaying implementation or weakening this rule

18 will not solve our state's economic crisis. The costs and

19 hospitalizations, our lives, lost work days, and missing

20 school will cost more than what it takes to clean up these

21 trucks.

22 Not only that, the waiting and the weakening of

23 the rule will not solve the economic problems. But at

24 what point do we say our children's lives and our

25 community's health are equal to company's bottom line. I

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345110

1 have deep respect for the company owners in this room and

2 for the economy and how hard it is right now.

3 But I get really emotional, because we have lost

4 people we love. We have seen people sick every single day

5 for years and year and decades from this problem. And so

6 it's just really hard, because we have paid more than our

7 fair share in our health and our lives.

8 Seventy-one-thousand people with asthma are waiting to

9 breathe clean air. We cannot wait any longer. So we urge

10 you to really adopt these regulation without weakening

11 them and without delay. Thank you.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

13 David Atwater, Mirna Ramos.

14 MR. ATWATER: Hi. I'm a third generation

15 petroleum marketer. Sell a lot of gasoline and diesel

16 fuel to industry, to agriculture.

17 I have trucks. I have four in the 1980s, eight

18 in the 1990s, and I have seven pre-'07 and three '07s.

19 Nothing beyond that new.

20 I am one of those guys who have been long time

21 family business. Saved all of our money, invested in our

22 trucks. A lot of the trucks are paid. Some of the trucks

23 we inherited from people who have gone out of business and

24 said, "Here, take my business, please. And take care of

25 my customers." We've taken over two companies in the last

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345111

1 18 months.

2 Getting bank financing when diesel fuel was $5 a

3 gallon, the bank said, "Sorry. There's no money out there

4 for you. No money out there to upgrade your trucks."

5 Nobody wants to loan money for an upgrade to a truck.

6 They might loan money for a new truck, but I just sold a

7 2007 truck from one of those companies that I took over.

8 Why? Because I didn't want the $5,000 a month payment.

9 I'd love to buy a dozen if you have a dozen trucks for

10 sale for 800 bucks a month. I would go for that. That

11 would be really good, because I could upgrade my fleet.

12 I got a couple grease trucks that run to service

13 the cotton picker industry in California that run 90 days

14 a year. They might qualify. My company does not.

15 Our agricultural bob tails, they run over your

16 minimum mileage. They service all kinds of industry.

17 One other comment that hasn't been made here, I

18 would like to say that as I was pacing the floor last

19 night thinking about the thousands of people that have

20 died. My son also has asthma. It's grass-borne asthma.

21 But you know I got to say that in balance, having traveled

22 all over the world from Afghanistan to central Africa, I

23 can tell you --

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Time is up. Sorry.

25 MR. ATWATER: -- that diesel is good for the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345112

1 world.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Mirna Ramos, Ana Torres,

3 Kathy Rose.

4 I'm sorry. Who are you?

5 MS. LEE: My name is Ana Lee.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Is Ana Torres or

7 Kathy Rose here?

8 MS. ROSE: Kathy Rose?

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Go ahead.

10 MS. ROSE: Good afternoon, Chairman Nichols,

11 members of the Board.

12 My name is Kathy Rose, and I am vice president of

13 sales and marketing for Nose Cone Manufacturing Company.

14 We are a family-owned California-based company founded in

15 1973. Our company has remained profitable for over 36

16 years.

17 As much as this regulation suits our agenda to

18 maintain that success, we have strong disagreements with

19 its basis. Despite those disagreements, I originally came

20 here today with much excitement to introduce a new product

21 that we are bringing to market in spring of 2009. We've

22 made significant investments in transitioning our

23 36-year-old manufacturing process to address both the

24 environmental and maintenance issues the trucking industry

25 is facing today. Unfortunately, there is no time to show

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345113

1 you our new highly durable 100 percent recyclable Nose

2 Cone. Because after listening to yesterday's testimony, I

3 felt it was more important to address the issues that make

4 in regulation inappropriate as it is currently written.

5 On the slide above, we have three different

6 tractor-trailer configurations: The SmartWay, and two

7 others that are not SmartWay approved.

8 To date, the EPA SmartWay Program has not tested

9 these two other configurations to determine whether or not

10 they are more or less efficient than SmartWay design

11 specification.

12 Wind tunnel analysis has demonstrated

13 combinations with shorter tractor heights and Nose Cone

14 treated trailers are equally efficient under no wind

15 conditions and are more efficient under cross wind

16 conditions.

17 For the sake of time, I'll summarize by saying

18 until these other configurations are objectively analyzed

19 and compared, there is no basis for making these other

20 applications non-compliant.

21 Yesterday, Professor Sperling questioned the

22 problem with the methodology. The problem is the track

23 testing. Track testing is seriously deficient when is

24 comes to proving aerodynamic performance.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You've used your time up.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345114

1 Two minutes. We can take your written testimony and

2 pictures if you've given the slides.

3 Ana Lee.

4 MS. LEE: Good morning. My name is Ana Lee. I'm

5 a researcher with Communities for a Better Environment,

6 also a member of Ditching Dirty Diesel Collaborative from

7 the Bay Area and AB 32 EJAC member.

8 East Oakland is predominantly African America,

9 Latino, and a low-income community and is bombarded by

10 cumulative impacts. The asthma hospitalization rate for

11 children is two times the county rate. Diesel trucks are

12 contributing to disproportionate health impacts. They

13 pass all day through the community on their trips to and

14 from the ports of Oakland. They come into the community

15 to the distribution centers. They come there to park and

16 sometimes up to a week long and idle illegally and also to

17 refuel. They're driving through the residential areas

18 right next to schools, right by recreation centers all day

19 long. And there is also a school bus depot in the

20 community.

21 And just for some personal testimony, we recently

22 completed an on-the-ground PM2.5 monitoring project with

23 CARB monitoring. And wanted to testify that it makes

24 you -- that it's just not great being out there with the

25 diesel trucks. I felt light-headed. I felt sick for two

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345115

1 days. And I don't have asthma or preexisting health

2 conditions.

3 Truck drivers and bus drivers are also paying a

4 price of diesel pollution. From communities in West

5 Oakland, East Oakland, San Leandro, L.A., Central Valley,

6 on and on, these diesel trucks have been enormous impact.

7 And these communities should not be ignored.

8 And agriculture should not be exempted. Reducing

9 emissions now is crucial to protecting the health of East

10 Oakland residents. And environmental justice is based on

11 the premise that no one -- everyone has a right the breath

12 clean air where they live, work, play, and pray.

13 So I strongly urge the Board now to vote to adopt

14 the rules without delay or weakening health protections

15 for all communities. Thank you.

16 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you.

17 Mr. Faulkner.

18 MR. FAULKNER: I'm Ron Faulkner, Faulkner

19 Trucking, Incorporated.

20 I hope the Board members have had a chance to

21 read my written statement I sent in. That way I don't

22 have to repeat myself.

23 What we need to do -- we are all for clean air.

24 I don't know anybody in the trucking industry that is not

25 for clean air. We're not trying to stay we don't want

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345116

1 clean air.

2 What we need is the funding to do this. It's

3 going to cost me $7 million between now and 2014 to do

4 anything with my fleet. That's a lot of money when my

5 gross revenue is 6 million with a percent to two percent

6 profit. Don't take much to do the math to see we're not

7 going to make it.

8 The SmartWay rule. These fairings on these

9 trailers -- and I have voiced this before on the

10 SmartWay -- they're not going to stay on. They might take

11 a side impact, but when you back into a pit dock, you're

12 going to drag them off. Hands down. I have measured it.

13 I have two-and-a-half feet of clearance from the bottom of

14 the trailer to the cement on my tractors and trailers get

15 into a dock.

16 Now that SmartWay flaring is not going to side

17 stay on there in the front when I or reverse or back in or

18 pull out of the dock. Sideways it may give. Front and

19 back is not going to give.

20 So what we're trying to say here we want to do

21 this. We want to follow the regulation. We need the

22 money to do that.

23 I don't full under any grants. I can't qualify

24 for any grants at all. I have 35 power units and 47

25 employees. If this goes through, I don't have no choice

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345117

1 but to fold up. And that's going to put 47 employees out

2 of business that have been loyal to me over the years. We

3 are in Tulare County and the unemployment rate is going

4 higher every day.

5 This cost of this isn't going to be able to

6 survive it. We need to push it out further to give us

7 some time. The clean is getting cleaner by the day for

8 all the 2007 motors that are already out there. There's

9 thousands and thousands. Swift has 20,000 trucks that are

10 going to have all this stuff on. Knight has 3,800.

11 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you, sir.

12 Glenda Deloney, followed by Tiana Drisker.

13 MS. DELONEY: Good morning. Yes, my name is

14 Glenda Deloney. I'm a member of Communities for a Better

15 Environment and a concerned citizen.

16 I lost my mom to cancer, and I have allergies. I

17 live in West Oakland one block from highway 880 and a half

18 a mile from the port of Oakland. Two elementary schools

19 are located in the midst of the diesel truck traffic en

20 route and port of Oakland during school hours on a daily

21 basis.

22 Oakland is an urban city that for decades have

23 inhaled environmental chemical hazards that overwhelmingly

24 suffocates the city. Diesel emissions has created chronic

25 respiratory conditions among 25 percent higher rate

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345118

1 children in the west Oakland area. Breathing the

2 hazardous chemicals is inhaling a drug like unseen

3 particulate matter that imbeds deep in the lungs. And

4 other research problems among children are learning

5 deficits, behavioral problems, and short-lived life spans

6 as an adult inherited from childhood breathing conditions

7 that leads to heart conditions.

8 The rule essentially will meet the federal clean

9 air requirements. Also judiciously will help enforce a

10 healthy life styles and 2010 healthy peoples.

11 Representing the communities of Oakland, the citizens seek

12 the legislative support to undue the urban city

13 environmental hazardous justice.

14 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you, ma'am.

15 Tiana Drisker followed by Jason Schmelzer.

16 MS. DRISKER: Hi. I'm Tiana Drisker, and I am

17 with Communities for a Better Environment, which is an

18 environmental health injustice organization.

19 CARB recently gave CBE PM2.5 monitors to measure

20 ground level diesel PM experienced by residents in east

21 Oakland. Why did we need this equipment? Because

22 residents in east Oakland are experiencing a

23 disproportionate amount of health impacts because of the

24 emissions produced by thousands of trucks that drive

25 through low income communities every day.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345119

1 The negative health impacts are ramped, including

2 asthma, respiratory issues, cancer, and epidermic allergy

3 reaction.

4 If the trucks are retrofitted, the quality of

5 health will improve for people who depend on State medical

6 care or who even don't have medical coverage at all.

7 These trucks also pass by clusters of elementary

8 schools. These are residents who have to find a way.

9 These are sensitive receptors. These are people who are

10 extremely sensitive to this type of pollution.

11 We have to find a way to support the truckers.

12 We have to find a way to support them financially. And we

13 have to come up with a solution to mediate this problem.

14 Because we do understand that this is a hardship for

15 truckers to make this transition.

16 Also I want you to realize that the trucks do sit

17 and idle. So when they're waiting to go to truck stops,

18 when they're waiting to go inside these businesses,

19 they're idling for unknown periods of time that's not

20 being documented. And it's not being regulated. These

21 trucks are not driving through your Walnut Creek

22 communities. These trucks are not driving through your

23 Pleasanton and Pleasant Hills conservative residential

24 communities. These trucks are driving through low-income

25 communities where there's lots of industrial cumulative

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345120

1 impacts.

2 Please support both of the truckers laws.

3 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Mr. Schmelzer followed by

4 Vannylda In.

5 MR. SCHMELZER: Thank you, Madam Chair and

6 members. I'm Jason Schmelzer here representing the

7 California Chamber of Commerce, the largest broad-based

8 business association in the state of California with over

9 16,000 members, with three million employees.

10 I want to be really clear about what's happening

11 here. There is a name for the process that's taken place

12 with this rule. It's called eminent domain. Governments

13 do it to people's homes. When they do it, not only do

14 they have to have a good reason, but they have to pay fair

15 market value for what's being taken.

16 That's not happening here. I think a lot of

17 people in this room that are supporting the rule would

18 have a very different take if it were their property that

19 was being proposed to be taken.

20 That being said, our goal is not to stop any

21 regulatory action. We're part of the DTCC coalition that

22 has provided an alternative.

23 Again it was mentioned earlier today, there is

24 the base line. There is the current rule. And then

25 there's a middle ground, the compromise. That's what we

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345121

1 are here to promote is a compromise.

2 The impact of this rule is massive. California's

3 unemployment rate is currently at 8.2 percent and is going

4 to go higher. The UI fund is in jeopardy. There are a

5 lot of problems. If you are looking at this one rule

6 alone in a silo, it may sound like a great idea. When you

7 look at the totality of what's going on in the state of

8 California, we really have some big problems with this

9 rule.

10 The economic and emissions analyses, Sierra

11 Research point out some significant problems with how the

12 baseline emissions numbers were calculated, what the

13 impact of the recession is, and how the economic analysis

14 was done.

15 Just yesterday, the Sacramento Bee ran an

16 editorial that characterized or quoted a professor from

17 Harvard University in the context of your economic

18 analysis for AB 32 said, "The economic analysis is

19 terribly deficient in critical ways."

20 Another comment said, "The net dollar cost of

21 each of these regulations is likely to be much larger that

22 what's reported." That from a professor at UCLA.

23 We're here advocating for the advancement of a

24 compromise. If you don't take that compromise, what we

25 would urge is to take careful note of the process for the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345122

1 economic analysis for the emissions inventory.

2 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you. We need folks

3 to line up so we can move along here.

4 I'm going to read of the next 10, 15 names.

5 Vannlyda In, Brian Davis, Florintino Hernandez, Elizabeth

6 Daigle, Ed Welch, Sarah Sharpe, Cheryl Moore, Camille

7 Kustin, Brian Beveridge.

8 Sir.

9 MR. DAVIS: I guess that's me next. I'm Brian

10 Davis, and I'm with Breathe California. And I have some

11 of these cards also to hand in from people who can't be

12 here today.

13 And basically I'm here to speak personally for

14 one thing. I live on Fell Street in San Francisco, which

15 is one of the major arteries there. There is black powder

16 piled up on the windowsills. I know that as a person with

17 asthma that that is effecting my health. And I'm very,

18 very concerned about where that black smoke is going in my

19 lungs.

20 And I know that a lot of it is coming from the

21 diesel exhaust that we need to dramatically reduce here by

22 passing a very strong, very powerful rule. Making sure

23 that we don't delay this. That we don't weaken it. This

24 isn't just an issue of health. This is also an issue as

25 hasn't been said too much. What I heard mention again

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345123

1 this is an environmental reality that we're facing a world

2 where the icecaps are melting. Where we're seeing lots

3 and lots and more and more fires and droughts in

4 California and in other places.

5 And this is not a time to delay. This is not a

6 time to weaken. This is a time to move forward and make

7 very, very strong rules and for California to set the

8 example. And obviously this is a financial issue as well.

9 And it's a financial issue in a lot of different respects.

10 Obviously, it effects the truckers' financial situations.

11 But it also effects the health of our people. We've got

12 much, much more money that can be saved in California and

13 health costs by passing a tough rule. And we need to look

14 at the fact that this money obviously we need to support

15 the truckers. We need to find every we can to support

16 them.

17 But the reality is that ultimately that cost is

18 going to be passed on to the consumer as it should be,

19 because it's all of us that are being benefited by this

20 and all of us that should be paying the costs. But we

21 cannot delay. We cannot weaken. We have to move forward

22 with a tough law. And we should not be paying with our

23 lungs.

24 Thank you.

25 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you.

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1 Florintino Hernandez and Elizabeth Daigle, Ed

2 Welch, Sarah Sharpe, Cheryl Moore, Camille Kustin, Brian

3 Beveridge.

4 MR. WELCH: Yes. Hi. My name is Ed Welch with

5 Save the Air in Nevada County.

6 We are unfortunately number ten on the EPA list

7 on the worst ozone polluted counties in the nation,

8 primarily blown up from Sacramento Bay Area components.

9 So I just wanted to talk about the ozone

10 component being a general degradation of our public health

11 and our environment.

12 Dr. Balmes was a part of an epidemiology study

13 that said that increased lifetime exposure to ambient 03,

14 our ozone is associated with decreased function of air

15 ways. So in the future, these problems are going to be

16 potentially great for us in the future.

17 I also want to relate a story to our county.

18 Recently, a year ago, we had two medical doctors move from

19 our county because their young twin four-year-old

20 daughters were having pulmonary distress. They went to

21 their medical peers, talked to a pulmonologist at

22 Stanford. They talked about a critical time period for

23 your children which is zero to six. When the development

24 of those lungs needs to be nurtured. If it's damaged,

25 it's irreversible. So if kids start showing signs of

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345125

1 pulmonary digress, basically it's to late. So I want to

2 say the extensions do matter to kids' health.

3 And also we sponsored a ozone summit this summer

4 up in Grass Valley. And they talked about forestry

5 damages. Their forest is also dramatically impacted by

6 ozone. The agricultural damages as well. The substantial

7 reductions in crop yields as from ozone damage is also

8 substantial as well.

9 And also want to remind that you the ozone

10 standards will likely go lower. The ozone standard was

11 reduced to 75 parts per million last spring. As several

12 members have testified, the Science Advisory Board said

13 that number should be between 60 and 70 parts per billion.

14 So it is going lower. Hopefully, it will go lower to

15 protect people's health. This is just a beginning measure

16 in what we would try to do to solve this problem.

17 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you, sir.

18 Cheryl Moore.

19 MS. MOORE: Good afternoon. My name is Cheryl

20 Moore with Mendocino Redwood Company.

21 In the interest of time, I'm going to limit my

22 comments to just one topic.

23 I would like to ask the Board to help in

24 revamping the Carl Moyer Program to increase the funding

25 that's available statewide and also to make sure that

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345126

1 there is sufficient funding to make it down to the private

2 rural businessperson.

3 And in addition to increased funding, it would

4 also be helpful if the Carl Moyer Program supported basic

5 compliance projects, not just above and beyond projects.

6 Additionally, if it was re-structured so that

7 participants could receive partial funding so that a

8 project wouldn't be denied if 100 percent funding of that

9 piece of equipment wasn't warranted, so they could get

10 some portion towards replacement or retrofitting.

11 Thank you.

12 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Brian Beveridge.

13 You are Camille? Just one second.

14 Brian Beveridge, Bill Gassaway, Dick Stuart,

15 Lowell Robinson, Brad Edgar.

16 MS. KUSTIN: Good afternoon, members. I'm

17 Camille Kustin with Environmental Defense Fund.

18 I'm going to get straight to the point.

19 We very much support the rule. However, we have

20 significant concern about the proposed agricultural truck

21 provisions. It reaches too far and does not provide the

22 needed health protections.

23 Under the proposal, 70 percent of ag trucks will

24 have no controls until 2017 and half will continue to emit

25 diesel soot from 2017 to 2023. This will

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345127

1 disproportionately effect farm workers and profession and

2 residents of rural areas. Provides no early protections

3 for acute exposure to fine diesel particulate.

4 This pollution affects some of the most

5 vulnerable populations who have the least access to health

6 care. We believe the Board can allow for flexibility for

7 agriculture, recognizing its unique characteristics will

8 also restore health benefits.

9 We simply request the Board do the following:

10 Limit the ag provision to small fleets to truly

11 help the small farmer, eliminate chemical and fertilizer

12 trucks. These vehicles have never been considered an ag

13 truck, and that shouldn't start now.

14 And reduce the mileage threshold to 10,000 miles

15 and require PM filters by January 1, 2015. This will

16 achieve direct health benefits. And if installing a

17 retrofit isn't an option for some vehicles because of

18 their age, there will be a growing market for used trucks

19 that are fitted with a filter. And these trucks will be

20 available at more reasonable price as compared to buying a

21 brand-new truck.

22 This time line will also allow additional time to

23 access incentive funds. And there will be funds available

24 for ag trucks. When specifically asked this question, the

25 unequivocal response from CARB air districts staff from

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345128

1 Sacramento and San Joaquin was that there will be money

2 available for ag trucks and it's historically been the

3 case starting next year. California agriculture is

4 successful, because it has been innovative.

5 And in response to other air regulations, this

6 sector has demonstrated its ability to meet the challenge

7 of reducing emissions. This rule will help clean up the

8 air and protect those that make the farm run and will

9 provide cleaner, newer vehicles that also make the farming

10 operation more efficient.

11 So we also thank CARB staff for their work.

12 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you.

13 Brian Beveridge.

14 MR. BEVERIDGE: Good morning or afternoon,

15 whichever it might be. My name is Brian Beveridge. I'm

16 co-chair of the West Oakland Environmental Indicators

17 Project in west Oakland, California.

18 We are surrounded on -- a community about 22,000

19 surrounded on all sides by freeways, which we didn't ask

20 for or build. Less than an eighth of a mile from the port

21 of Oakland, which we didn't actually ask for or build. We

22 experience diesel emissions from trucks, trains, and ships

23 24-7.

24 Bunch of us came on a bus up here today. A woman

25 at the bus stop said, "Where are all you going?"

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345129

1 We said, "We're going to Sacramento to talk about

2 clean air in the neighborhood."

3 She said, "That should have happened 40 years

4 ago."

5 In 1995, the EPA declared diesel particulate a

6 carcinogen. In last 40 years, I think we've had about

7 three boom and bust cycles.

8 The point is in good times, our communities don't

9 really share in the largest, the prosperity. And in bad

10 times, we're told nobody can afford to do anything about

11 our problems.

12 As taxpayers, we've committed as well through

13 these bonds to support this process. I don't think anyone

14 in the state is asking for anything for free.

15 As consumers, we know we'll probably pay a little

16 bit more, because these costs are going to be passed on to

17 us. It will probably won't come out of the dividends.

18 In the long run, the costs of government can't be

19 reduced if we continue to burden taxpayer with the social

20 costs of diesel pollution.

21 It's been demonstrated children's lungs are

22 permanently damaged by exposure to diesel pollution. So

23 for every year we delay, we raise another generation of

24 people who need respiratory health care. I think at this

25 point we need to have industry looking for ways they can

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345130

1 comply and not spending time delaying these regulations

2 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you, sir.

3 Bill Gassaway, then Dick Stuart.

4 MR. GASSAWAY: I'm Bill Gassaway, with Gassaway

5 Enterprises.

6 I'm a very small business in California. Do

7 salvage work in the logging industry. Go around to fuel

8 reductions for fire prevention. Also eradication of pine

9 beatle. That's 90 percent of my logging work.

10 I applied for the Carl Moyer Program well over a

11 year ago. It was accepted. The moneys were just about

12 out. Went down the Kenworth. Ordered my truck like for

13 like what I have. Laid around that night thinking about

14 the whole thing. Now I've got a debt coming up here which

15 I really can't afford. It all equaled out to I was going

16 to have to come up with another $2,000 a month. The next

17 day I called up and I let the next guy have it.

18 I'd like to comply with all this. But it's

19 unrealistic for thousands -- literally thousands of people

20 like me with one rig. Little entrepreneurs that try to

21 survive in the state. It's just out of our reach. I

22 mean, we can't do this.

23 I don't really think that you even realize the

24 impact this is going to have when tens of thousands of

25 people like myself instead of, you know, large companies

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345131

1 we've heard from and stuff are affected by this. Your tax

2 base is going to be affected traumatically. I mean,

3 you'll see it overnight. You put tens of thousands of us

4 little guys out of business, you're going to get your pink

5 slips in the mail next week. It's going to affect

6 California's economy bad. We need to evolve into this,

7 but we need to do it slower, when we have an economy to do

8 it with. Help us people out. We need help.

9 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you, sir. I have a

10 question for you. How much was the grant award?

11 MR. GASSAWAY: I was going to receive $80,000 on

12 my rig. And it needs to be off the road, but that's what

13 makes me survive and my family.

14 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you.

15 Dick Stuart, followed by Lowell Robinson.

16 MR. STUART: Good afternoon. My name si Dick

17 Stuart. I work with Maxim Crane Works. I'm responsible

18 for our company's fleet compliance with CARB rules and

19 reporting requirements.

20 Maxim is a nationwide crane rental company. We

21 have five locations in California and approximately 250

22 cranes, various types, servicing the state.

23 Want to focus on a small section of this rule

24 that has a large impact on our industry. Roughly 32 of

25 the cranes that we have in California will be impacted by

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345132

1 the two-engine crane provision described in Appendix L of

2 the ISOR.

3 Our company supports this provisions as an

4 efficient means of allowing the crane industry to achieve

5 CARB's emissions objectives. In the event there is a

6 delay acting on the on-road rule, we would request that

7 there's no delay in avoiding that particular provision or

8 implementation of that particular provision. This will

9 avoid the multiple reporting requirements and ATCMs that

10 currently apply and reduce the burden of compliance for

11 our industry. Thank you for the opportunity.

12 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Thank you, sir.

13 Lowell Robinson, followed by Brad Edgar.

14 MR. ROBINSON: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and

15 Board. My name is Lowell Robinson from Nevada City,

16 California. And I bought my first truck 61 years ago.

17 Our company has been in the business. And we buy

18 new trucks -- our first new trucks were bought in 1955,

19 and we've been buying new trucks ever since. And it's

20 very hard to keep up with.

21 With the economy the way it is right new, if we

22 can get the Carl Moyer Program to help just a little bit

23 more so we could change and get newer trucks -- there's no

24 company that would rather have newer trucks than

25 ourselves. All over the last two years, we bought nine

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345133

1 new trucks. And even today there's one in the shop.

2 Those trucks almost -- of the nine trucks we got, almost

3 every day one of them is in the shop because it won't run.

4 Caterpillar is the manufacturer of that engine. They did

5 not get enough time to manufacturer that engine so it will

6 work in the time that we need.

7 So I'd ask for a little more of the Carl Moyer

8 money and not quite so many regulations. There's so many

9 regulations in it that it's hard to meet that demand in

10 the Carl Moyer Program. And if we can go a little bit

11 slower, Rome wasn't built in a day. Thank you.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Brad Edgar.

13 MR. EDGAR: Chair Nichols and members of the

14 Board, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.

15 I'm the President of the Cleaire Advanced

16 Emissions Controls, a California-based manufacturer of

17 retrofit devices.

18 We are here today in support of the rule.

19 I would like to make a couple of comments about

20 emission controls.

21 We've been involved in the retrofit business

22 since 2001. And since that time, we have retrofitted

23 thousands of vehicles in California to support the fleet

24 rules you've already passed. Over the past two years,

25 we've invested heavily to expand our product portfolio and

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345134

1 our manufacturing capability to ensure that we are ready

2 to support this rule.

3 Today, it is possible to apply high efficiency or

4 level three devices to essentially any and every diesel

5 engine covered under this proposed rule. We plan to offer

6 passively regenerating filters for hotter applications,

7 actively regenerating filters for colder applications.

8 And we will alter our long view product device that offers

9 both NOx and particulate matter reductions for on-road

10 applications as well.

11 All of these products are either verified today

12 or are in the final stages of the verification process.

13 We believe retrofitting provides an outstanding compliance

14 option. For a fraction of the cost of a new or used

15 truck, the owner can retrofit it and use it to the full

16 extent of its useful life pushing out the transition to a

17 newer model year truck.

18 And final point to make, there are co-benefits

19 from retrofitting. Reducing particulate matter in

20 addition to mitigating health impacts also has a climate

21 change benefit through the reduction of black carbon.

22 So in closing, we support this rule. We look

23 forward to our continued cooperation with ARB. And we

24 urge you to pass this rule. Thank you.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345135

1 John Clements.

2 MR. RHOADES: My name is Steve Rhoades. I'm

3 filling with for John Clements. His Board has just

4 imposed a travel and a budget freeze because of the

5 pending budget cuts.

6 I'll make this very short because it's in front

7 of you. Two points.

8 He wanted to make sure that in the future that

9 you consider pricing the CNG and the hybrid electric buses

10 at 180,000. We would like to see that for the new school

11 bus program.

12 He's got to replace 30 of his school buses.

13 That's almost half his fleet under the rule. And he would

14 like ARB and the education community to work together to

15 obtain funding for that.

16 Thank you.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

18 Gale Plummer.

19 MR. PLUMMER: Thank you very much for the

20 opportunity, Chairman Nichols and Board and staff.

21 I'm Chief Operating Officer of Cleaire Advanced

22 Emission Controls, California-based retrofit company. And

23 we've invested aggressively to support the rules this

24 Board has presented.

25 The first topic I'd look to talk about is quickly

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345136

1 on green jobs growth. Every one of our systems that's

2 installed in California requires about two-and-a-half work

3 weeks of a Californian to build that system, install it,

4 design it, and so on. So 100,000 retrofits is about 5,000

5 annual jobs in California that that would result in.

6 These are high tech jobs. They're high trade content

7 jobs. And they make quite a contribution. And all of

8 that takes place within California.

9 We believe retrofit is a very economical way to

10 use the incentive funding. You can do about five

11 retrofits for the cost of one truck replacement. And the

12 retrofit technology presents the same platform for

13 emission control for PM that a new truck does. We use the

14 exact same technology.

15 So with that being said, we think it also allows

16 the trucking community to recapture or to hold on to their

17 investment that they made in that truck. Rather than

18 retiring that truck and scrapping it, which is causing a

19 great deal of grief to the balance sheet of any trucking

20 company, we can extend the life of the truck and get the

21 original design life they wanted out of the truck they

22 vested for to begin with the retrofit that represents less

23 than 20 percent of the cost of a new truck.

24 Thank you very much. If there are any questions.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, sir.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345137

1 Rodney Edwards, Larry Greene.

2 MR. GREENE: Chairman members of the Board, I'm

3 Larry Greene, Air Pollution Control Officer at Sacramento

4 AQMD.

5 Just look the South Coast and San Joaquin,

6 Sacramento will not meet current SIP goals, nor upcoming

7 SIP goals without this regulation and the associated NOx

8 and PM benefits.

9 We support passing this regulation for that clear

10 reason and for the great toxics reduction benefits the

11 rule will provide.

12 That said, an important part of implementing this

13 regulation is the incentive funding is in place and will

14 be available throughout the next ten years. We all must

15 be diligent to keep the funding streams in place, and we

16 commit to do that and work with the industry in our

17 Sacramento area.

18 Thank you.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

20 Steve Moore, Michael Mach.

21 Looks like Oakland High.

22 MS. RATNER: I just wanted to say in addition to

23 Michael, there are a number of other students from Oakland

24 High and Mandela High. Just in case they don't getting a

25 chance to speak, I wanted them to be able to stand up. So

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345138

1 here are our students who have come here from Oakland to

2 talk on the rule. Thank you.

3 MR. MACH: Hi. My name is Michael Mach. I'm a

4 student at Oakland High School under the Environmental

5 Science Accounting.

6 I believe a good truck rule that reduces diesel

7 pollution is important studies from the researchers at

8 U.C. Berkeley and Harvard reveals that truck drivers and

9 those who work near these trucks, dock workers, have high

10 rates of death and disease. If by changing the truck's

11 engine can save lives and improve the environment, then it

12 is a good idea to create and enforce this rule.

13 So please move quickly to adopt a truck rule that

14 cuts diesel PM. With these truck, rules people wouldn't

15 need to suffer from trying to make a living. Thank you.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

17 I'm going to ask all the students who are with

18 you, Jill, to come forward at once. Will you ask the

19 students to come say their names, and we'll have heard

20 from the whole group. I really think this will be more

21 effective.

22 MS. RATNER: Thank you. My name is Jill Ratner.

23 I work with the Rose Foundation for Communities and the

24 Environment in Oakland, California.

25 And these are students from Oakland High School

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345139

1 and from Fremont High School.

2 And there's a map that was submitted as part of

3 the testimony that shows where Fremont High School is in

4 relation to various truck routes. And the students will

5 just let you know who they are and what school they're

6 from.

7 MR. KRESS: Hello. I'm from Oakland High School.

8 I'm a senior.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Give your name, please.

10 MR. KRESS: Alek Kress.

11 MR. MAK: I'm San Ming Mak, a senior from Oakland

12 High School.

13 MR. LO: I'm Sam Lo, senior from Oakland High

14 School.

15 MR. TRAN: Hi, everybody. My name is Ricky Tran.

16 I'm a senior from Oakland High School.

17 MS. SING: Hi. I'm Wau Sing. I'm from Mandela

18 High School, senior.

19 SULAMA: My name is Sulama. I'm a senior from

20 Mandela High School.

21 MS. GONZALEZ: Hi. My name is Yesenia. Also

22 senior at Mandela High School.

23 MS. UCA: Hi. My name is Brissa. I'm a senior

24 from Mandela High School.

25 YVETTE: My name is Yvette, and I'm from Mandela

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345140

1 High School.

2 SIM: My name is Sim Ling. I'm a senior from

3 Oakland high.

4 MARJAM: My name is Marjam, and I'm a senior from

5 Oakland High.

6 ENRIQUEZ: My name is Enriquez, and I'm with

7 Oakland High.

8 VI: I'm Vi. I'm a senior from Oakland High.

9 MR. CHU: Hi. I'm Simon Chu. I'm senior at

10 Oakland High.

11 MS. LU: I'm Shelley Lu, a senior from Oakland

12 High.

13 MS. HUNG: Hi. I'm Mimi Hung, a senior at

14 Oakland High.

15 TIMMY: Hi. My name is Timmy. Im a senior at

16 Oakland High.

17 MS. NUNAN: I'm Katie Nunam. I'm a teacher at

18 Oakland High School.

19 And a lot of students have prepared statements

20 for you.

21 Those students who have asthma or friends and

22 relatives who have asthma, please raise your hands please

23 now. Thank you for listening to us.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Thank you.

25 And, Jill, you're listed as speaking later in the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345141

1 program. We have statements here, too. Do you have a

2 statement that you wish to give at this point?

3 MS. RATNER: Thank you. Yes.

4 My name again is Jill Ratner. I work with the

5 Rose Foundation for Communities and the Environment.

6 And one of our programs is an environmental

7 education program. We've been working with Ms. Nunan and

8 Ms. Arabia at these two schools. These are schools where

9 the average asthma rate for the ZIP code the students live

10 in is approximately three to four to six times the state

11 average.

12 As you saw, over half the students in these

13 schools either have asthma or have someone close to them

14 who has asthma.

15 Fremont High School in particular, which is the

16 larger community school in which Mandela High School is

17 located, is immediately adjacent to a truck route. It is

18 approximately four blocks from another truck route,

19 approximately five blocks from another truck route,

20 approximately seven clocks from one of the busiest

21 freeways in the area.

22 These kids are very much impacted by the rule.

23 And their lives are going to be effected by your decision

24 and the lives of their friends and family.

25 We all recognize how difficult it is to move

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345142

1 forward with this rule at this time. But we also want to

2 make sure that you had a chance to see some of the

3 students who are counting on you to protect them and their

4 lungs and their friends and their families lungs.

5 Thank you very much.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you for coming and

7 for the work that you are doing with the students. Thanks

8 to the teachers as well.

9 Steve Roberts.

10 MR. ROBERTS: I'm Steve Roberts, an

11 owner-operator on the north coast. I am only going to

12 bring to your attention something that hasn't been

13 mentioned yet. In 2007 --

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Speak into the mike.

15 MR. ROBERTS: -- I priced a power unit to replace

16 the one I have equipped to do the work I do. The price

17 tag is $200,500.

18 Now my little niche I've got I can run under

19 50,000 miles a year, support my lifestyle, and pretty good

20 deal.

21 If I buy that truck, my annual mileage is going

22 to have to go to 110,000 miles a year. There's 60- to

23 70,000 miles more than my normal low mileage.

24 So the newer truck gets a percentage less fuel

25 mileage than the present truck I run now. All your new

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345143

1 trucks through the owner-operators newsletter say all the

2 2007-08 trucks are getting less fuel mileage than the old

3 manual motors.

4 So I don't know on either side of this how it's

5 going to help anyone if I have to burn that much more fuel

6 a year to pay for the truck that's going to fall in

7 compliance with your rule.

8 Thank you for your time.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Thank you.

10 Ms. Nunez.

11 MS. NUNEZ: Good afternoon, Chairman Nichols and

12 members of the Board. My name Blanca Nunez, and I'm a

13 life-long resident of Pacoima, a suburb located in

14 northeast San Fernando Valley in the city of L.A.

15 I'm also a staff member of Pacoima Beautiful, an

16 environmental justice nonprofit organization that provides

17 environmental education and develops local leadership to

18 help environmental changes.

19 Started in 1996, the organization began with five

20 mothers working in the community and now creates

21 community-based environmental information through resident

22 engagement and through collaborative partnerships with

23 government agencies, university partners, and community

24 organizations. And our members have submitted written

25 comment in support of the regulation.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345144

1 I'd also look to submit these postcards.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

3 MS. NUNEZ: Located just north of the dirty

4 landfills, surrounded by three freeways and traffic diesel

5 exhaust, bisected by a major railroad, and home to a

6 private computer airport, as well as over 300 industries,

7 Pacoima is an environmentally impacted community.

8 Through our work in the community, we have found

9 that people are concerned about health and the exposure to

10 numerous sources of pollutants. And as a community, we

11 need access to the information, tools, and resources that

12 will enable us to protect our health and the well being of

13 our families.

14 On behalf of Pacoima Beautiful, I'd like to

15 strongly urge you to support the diesel truck and bus

16 regulation as slashing diesel emissions would greatly

17 reduce the incidents of asthma and other respiratory

18 illnesses in my community.

19 I would also urge you to adopt --

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Your time is up. Thank

21 you.

22 Jorge Villanueva.

23 MR. VILLANUEVA: My name is Jorge Villanueva,

24 also with Pacoima Beautiful. We're an environmental

25 health injustice organization located in northeast San

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345145

1 Fernando Valley.

2 And part of the reason why I'm here and why I do

3 the environmental work that I do is because I think the

4 environment is really important. But also I understand

5 the concerns of the business sector. I come from a

6 working class family. My parents both worked in industry.

7 I have a small family here. We're immigrants. And my

8 uncle was a truck driver in the same company that -- same

9 factory my father worked in. And through the industry we

10 were able to get our slice of the American pie.

11 But I also grew up with asthma. And I was

12 diagnosed with asthma when I was seven. I had to -- it

13 impacted me. It impacted the way I was able to

14 participate in my childhood. I was in and out of the

15 doctor's office. I was in and out of the emergency room.

16 And the reality is that I think the economic issues are

17 really important. But what about the health issues? And

18 I think we need to look at both carefully and make

19 adequate choices.

20 Unfortunately, when someone has asthma, they

21 don't get a do over for their childhood. When someone

22 dies of cancer and it could have been prevented, they

23 don't a do over.

24 But the reality is that with business, you do get

25 a do over. You can fail in business and start again and

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345146

1 succeed.

2 And I think that we need to figure out a way o

3 support the business community, but we can't overlook and

4 we can't do it at the expense of health. Thank you.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

6 Steve Azevedo.

7 MR. AZEVEDO: Good afternoon and thank you for

8 the time.

9 I'm Steve Azevedo with Knife River Corporation.

10 We do construction, sand, and gravel production. And we

11 also do marine construction, which means not only do we

12 have to comply with this regulation, the off-road

13 regulation, the portable fleet regulation, but we are hit

14 with some of the port rules and the marine diesel rules.

15 Considering this influx of rules that we are hit

16 with all at one time, I would like to ask you to consider

17 the DTCC proposal which will allow us more flexibility in

18 the early years, yet still reaching the same end goal.

19 I don't want to repeat a lot of the things that

20 have been said, but as a couple speakers ago mentioned,

21 the fuel consumption on our newer trucks 2007 and newer is

22 about 25 percent greater. We track our fuel pretty

23 closely.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We're not timing this one?

25 Sorry.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345147

1 MR. AZEVEDO: Our fuel consumption is about 25

2 percent greater with the new trucks. Which what does this

3 mean? This means more carbon in the atmosphere which is

4 in direct conflict with the greenhouse gas measure you

5 passed yesterday. I haven't seen any analysis from staff

6 on what the regulation actually does with greenhouse gas

7 and other things.

8 So without repeating other things, that's all I'd

9 like to say right now.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Thank you.

11 Rick Bettis.

12 We are back to waiting for people to come line

13 up.

14 Okay. Steve Weitekamp.

15 MR. BETTIS: Thank you, Madam Chair.

16 Rick Bettis, I'm a volunteer member of the

17 Breathe California Sacramento Chapter, Health and Policy

18 Committee, and here to support the staff. I think the

19 staff has done a wonderful professional job and urge you

20 to adopt this measure.

21 On a personal matter, I grew up in the central

22 valley and had several family members affected by air

23 quality conditions. And I've lost two of them. And also

24 I had both a brother and brother-in-law in the small

25 trucking business. And I think they would both agree with

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345148

1 the going forward on this rule because considering the

2 health effects and they went through good and bad times in

3 their business but survived that. But not the health

4 effects. So thank you.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, sir.

6 Steve Weitekamp, followed by Patricia Sanchez.

7 MR. WEITEKAMP: Good afternoon. My name is Steve

8 Weitekamp. I'm the President of the California Moving and

9 Storage Association. And on behalf of its over 550

10 members companies, I ask that you not move forward with

11 the implementation of this onerous regulation in its

12 present state.

13 This program will cause an undetermined number of

14 California small to medium-size moving companies, some

15 family-owned for two or three generations, to go out of

16 business. This will negatively impact a competitive

17 marketplace that benefits the moving public.

18 I've received comments from many movers around

19 the state. The following is a dispassionate

20 representation of their comments.

21 Companies like ours Are being asked to dispose of

22 equipment and assets before their useful life has been

23 completed and purchase new equipment before it would

24 otherwise be acquired. A combination of this proposed

25 rule and the state of the economy have left the trade-in

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345149

1 or resale value of our equipment worth pennies on the

2 dollar. We simply don't have the resources to access the

3 capital to retrofit our engines.

4 If we are able to survive, we will be forced to

5 reduce our workforce, putting further downward pressure on

6 the economy. Our industry, with its model of low annual

7 mileage and long equipment life, will be more negatively

8 impacted than many and will not qualify for existing

9 grants or loan programs.

10 In the interest of brevity and to avoid

11 repetition, I ask that you please review the comments of

12 the Monterey Bay Unified Air Pollution Control District in

13 opposition to the CARB proposal. Their clear and concise

14 resolution addresses issues that directly impact the

15 moving and storage industry.

16 CMSA has joined with DTCC and support their

17 alternative proposal. Even the DTCC proposal will create

18 hardships for our industry. But companies will at least

19 have a fighting chance to survive. Just to say you know

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We're out of time. Sorry.

21 Patricia Sanchez, are you here?

22 Martin Ward. You're speaking for him, too?

23 MR. RHOADES: I'm only going to talk about the

24 things that are different. Lots of points and you have it

25 before you. He wants to focus on buses and thinks diesel

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345150

1 particulate traps are good, but only for buses that are

2 older than 2004.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. You're doing a

4 good job for interpreting for others.

5 Manuel Cunha.

6 MR. CUNHA: Good afternoon. Thank you very much.

7 Nisei Farmers League.

8 The rule has been a long process. It's more than

9 18 months, and I felt like it's been ten years. I know

10 that I'm getting a little older. Maybe grayer, but I

11 ain't accepting the gray, that's for darn sure.

12 I want to thank everybody, the staff, for the

13 hard work.

14 I'm not in favor of it. I think anybody that has

15 businesses has a lot of concerns. But let that be said.

16 We have to deal with it.

17 I do want to focus on one thing I would hope the

18 staff and the Board would be very cautious on. In your

19 provision on page 33, you do emphasize enforcement. We

20 will have to be very careful in agriculture, because under

21 the Department of Labor, there is a provision called the

22 Hot Goods Amendment. The Hot Goods Law of 1938, which

23 deals with agriculture and its products upon when trucks

24 are being held or not held, when products are being held

25 based upon various issues. So I can see a problem heading

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345151

1 that way with brokers. Our agricultural brokers in other

2 states will not have the knowledge of what's going on for

3 the enforcement of this to make sure if a trucker is

4 coming into one trucking house or nine packing houses.

5 So what I would ask the staff to be very cautious

6 and work with industry on this enforcement part. I don't

7 think the public or the business person should be

8 responsible to enforce the regulation to know what they

9 are as you know how complex it all is. So I would

10 encourage you to deal with that part of it, because it is

11 important.

12 Everybody has heard about the economics.

13 Everybody knows where I'm coming from on the economic

14 issue. We are a state of $3.48 trillion that's total

15 California's dollars, revenue dollars that makes this

16 state. And we are 27 percent of the United States budget.

17 So when you look at that, that's a huge amount of dollars.

18 And I do appreciate the staff's efforts, especially Jack,

19 for trying to work on -- trying to deal with Carl Moyer

20 funding and all of these issues. We need to make them

21 flexible. We need to make them work and figure out

22 moneys.

23 Thank you for all the hard work, everybody.

24 Thank you.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Dennis McFarland.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345152

1 MR. MAC FARLAND: Madam Chair, Board, I'm Dennis

2 MacFarland, a third generation log truck driver.

3 Thirty-three years ago, I used $3,000 that I had saved to

4 buy my first log truck. That and the very friendly banker

5 put me into the business.

6 One of the reasons I'm bringing this up is I

7 think with this current rule as proposed we are not going

8 to give the ability for young guys to get into this

9 trucking business, whether it's log truck, highway truck,

10 or whatever. And I think that's something that's really

11 important. Without the influx of young people into this

12 business, it's the life blood of our trucking industry.

13 And I think this is something that really needs to be

14 looked at. Thank you.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

16 Pete Fredotovich.

17 Lan Dahn.

18 MS. DAHN: My name is Lan Dahn, and I work for

19 the School Transportation Coalition.

20 Unfortunately, many of the school districts

21 aren't able to attend today and could not participate in

22 this hearing. Due to the fiscal crisis travel has been

23 curtailed by most of the school districts.

24 For this reason I'm here on behalf Mr. Kirk

25 Hunner, who is the CEO for Southwest Transportation, which

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345153

1 serves eight school districts in the Fresno County.

2 California ranks last in the nation in the

3 percentage of children that, even though school buses are

4 the safest form of transportation. He is concerned that

5 additional regulation and mandates rules will result in

6 fewer children riding school buses.

7 He also believes since ARB wants to improve air

8 quality, they should do everything within their power to

9 replace old school buses and secure additional funding for

10 school transportation.

11 Replacing the pre-1987 buses would protect the

12 health of our children and would be more cost efficient

13 than traps. His experience with traps make him believe

14 that spending money on these traps is making another

15 cottage industry wealthy at the Ex expense of our

16 children.

17 Thank you.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

19 Alek Kress. Charlie Simpson.

20 Oh, you're Alek.

21 MR. KRESS: Hi. My name is Alek Kress. I'm a

22 senior at Oakland High School. I have a friend named

23 Timmy who I've known since elementary school.

24 Recently, I found out he has asthma. And yet he

25 still plays tennis for our team. I never want to see him

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345154

1 get an asthma attack from small and large particles in

2 diesel pollution from trucks.

3 Please consider creating and enforcing a rule

4 that will make truck drivers and corporations retrofit

5 their engines to reduce diesel fuel pollution.

6 Thank you for your time.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay.

8 Charlie Simpson.

9 MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Chair Nichols and the

10 Board.

11 Thank you for your time to speak. We felt it was

12 really important to come today. We've been working with

13 staff for 18 months as we've been trying to develop this

14 rule.

15 I work for Golden State Peterbilt that sells new

16 vehicles and used vehicles in the San Joaquin Valley.

17 E.M. Thorp is our parent company and has been

18 around for 70 years. Started in 1935 with the purchase of

19 one used truck. We now employ over 300 employees.

20 I had a full statement here that we were asked to

21 prepare for the two minutes, but I'm going to back off of

22 that in lieu of time and just bring up a couple of issues.

23 As the rule is written today, we are not

24 approving this as it's going forward and for several

25 reasons.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345155

1 One is we understand the need for a rule and we

2 want to help support that. Our problems are is that we

3 understand the rule is needing to come, but it just

4 doesn't do what we need to get done as far as industry.

5 With that, we would ask that the staff work

6 together with industry even more and come up with a rule

7 that can pass and keep people in business.

8 Earlier this year, at one of the workshops in

9 Fresno, we found out -- or at least the staff told us that

10 even with this rule that we would not meet our SIP

11 requirements. That becomes a heavy issue if we don't meet

12 the SIP requirement and we're going to put everyone out of

13 business, what are we doing this for?

14 Last thing, SmartWay was designed as a system for

15 the EPA and not as certain pieces that you can pull out of

16 it. Thank you very much.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

18 We're going to take a very, very short break for

19 everybody's sake. I think we can actually do this in 20

20 minutes, 25 minutes, and people can stretch. And we'll be

21 back I have ten of. Let's start again at 2:15. That will

22 be lunch. I'm sorry. 1:15.

23 (Thereupon a lunch recess was taken.)

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Let's resume.

25 Michael.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345156

1 MR. COLLIER: Thank you, Madam Chair and members

2 of the Board. I have already submitted some written

3 comments by the website I don't have much to add to that.

4 But I do have a couple of questions and concerns that have

5 been raised since I've been here, particularly dealing

6 with the fairings on these trailers.

7 These fairings that are being proposed to go on

8 the rear of a trailers will increase that trailer's length

9 by four feet. How is that going to be reconciled with the

10 overall length rule in the state of California? And is

11 there any kind of provision for those of us that haul

12 57-foot trailers already that aren't allowed to proceed

13 past that overall length?

14 Basically what I want to know is the 300 trucks

15 that haul 57-footers, are we going to go out of business

16 when everyone else can still be hauling a 57-footer and

17 essentially with these fairings?

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: There is an answer to that

19 question which was given this afternoon. Maybe somebody

20 wants to repeat it right now in terms of federal and

21 state -- feds have already certified, and the State is

22 looking at it. We'll have this resolved.

23 MR. COLLIER: What's the likelihood of the length

24 rule being increased?

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think it is very likely.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345157

1 MR. COLLIER: Thank you very much.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Chuck Wolf.

3 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Madam Chairwoman, wouldn't it

4 be fair to say if it wasn't, we would have to take a look

5 at that?

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Absolutely.

7 BOARD MEMBER BERG: So we're not going to pass

8 something --

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: That puts you in a bind.

10 BOARD MEMBER BERG: That the federal government

11 or the State highway is not going to let you do.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Right. Okay is Chuck Wolf

13 here?

14 Is Paul Buttner here?

15 MR. BUTTNER: Yes. Thank you. My name is Paul

16 Buttner here representing the California Rice Producers.

17 We have about 500,000 acres of rise in the

18 Sacramento valley. About six to 700-acre family farms is

19 what makes up our industry. Still very much the family

20 farm in the Sacramento Valley.

21 First and foremost, I would like to thank your

22 staff for working so closely with us really at every turn.

23 They diligently analyzed all of the ideas that came forth

24 about a potential agriculture provision. They were very

25 clear on what the limits were, what they could do and what

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345158

1 they couldn't when balancing the needs for attainment and

2 other public health issues. Really appreciate the hard

3 work of your staff in that area.

4 Through our meetings and discussions together, we

5 really identified a number of issues about agriculture

6 trucks and why they are unique and different in

7 California.

8 First and foremost, agricultural trucks are on

9 average eight years older than the statewide fleet. That

10 speaks strongly to the fact we depend on used trucks to

11 purchase in our industry.

12 These trucks are used very, very low miles and

13 seasonally. And the vast majority of them simply go from

14 a field to a first point of processing. For rice, that

15 would be a field to a dryer. And all the dryers are

16 located up in the agricultural areas. So these travel

17 distances are very short.

18 I want to emphasize that you are not eligible for

19 this provision unless you're going to a field first point

20 of processing for these farmer-owned trucks.

21 We have about 22,000 ag trucks in the state of

22 California. That's about five percent of the total

23 statewide fleet. We are about four percent of statewide

24 emissions from these statewide fleet of trucks. Yet if

25 there was no provision considered by your staff, the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345159

1 agricultural industry would have incurred almost 20

2 percent of the compliance costs of this regulation, even

3 though our emissions are four percent.

4 So with the provisions that your staff has put

5 forth, we estimate our compliance costs to be about eight

6 percent, which is still somewhat disproportionate but much

7 better than without those provisions.

8 A few take-home points. First of all -- all ag

9 trucks will be replaced

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Your buzzer has just gone

11 off. I apologize.

12 MR. BUTTNER: I heard it, but --

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You're over. Sorry. We

14 got to enforce this.

15 Mark Osborne.

16 Renee Pinel. Gone.

17 Laura Fultz Stout.

18 MS. FULTZ STOUT: Good afternoon. Thank you for

19 your marathon time to this issue of the diesel truck rule.

20 My name is Laura Fultz Stout. I'm a 30 year

21 resident of the city of Fresno. I work and live and enjoy

22 being with family and friends in the Fresno-Clovis area.

23 There's just one problem. This region, my home

24 town, has recently been classified as an extreme

25 non-attainment air quality zone.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345160

1 The family and friends and myself, our health and

2 lives are compromised due to the extremely poor air

3 quality.

4 My husband and I are excited to buy our first

5 home and would like to settle down in this area. But due

6 to my diminished ability to breathe in this area, we're

7 faced with the choice between living there and leaving our

8 family. Thinking about leaving friends and family is very

9 disheartening. But one thing fortunate is we have that

10 choice to leave this very bad air quality basin. And

11 others are not.

12 I'm here today as a concerned resident who

13 intentionally started to work on the air quality problem

14 by joining the Coalition for Clean Air, a statewide

15 organization that's been working on clean air for 37

16 years. They recognize that the San Joaquin Valley is an

17 area needing a focused and comprehensive plan to get the

18 diverse resident population to cleaner air sooner rather

19 than later.

20 Getting to the main point of my testimony,

21 through my work with the Coalition for Clean Air, I've had

22 the privilege to work with many truckers, about a dozen,

23 and smart innovative San Joaquin Valley truckers and their

24 companies. These truck companies range from produce,

25 seasonal harvest trucks, beef trucks, and other goods

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345161

1 movement truck.

2 A number of the owner-operators of these truck

3 companies have seen the writing on the wall over the last

4 ten years, five years, and they're getting ready. They

5 looked at their inventory, started making plans to

6 retrofit or replace trucks. Some have already received

7 funds --

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Your time is up.

9 MS. FULTZ STOUT: Thank you. Please pass this

10 rule.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Mark Matheson.

12 MR. MATHESON: Hello. I'm Mark Matheson from

13 Matheson Trucking.

14 I'm here to only talk about on-highway trucks.

15 As far as -- there is a lot of great testimony that's been

16 made here. We're in favor having clean trucks not

17 polluting the society.

18 But the concern I have is how is it going to be

19 enforced. What we often see that is one company or one

20 size company has to be managed. The other sizes are not.

21 We see that with water. We've seen it with several

22 things. And if we lose our work, a lot of it will go to

23 other people. And I would like to know they're being held

24 to the same standards.

25 As far as the SmartWay, we are in agreement with

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345162

1 the SmartWay. We have X1 tires. We have aerodynamics.

2 We have a new trailer coming with the ground effects on

3 it.

4 The thing that we have seen over the last 25 or

5 30 years is it's not a one-size-fits-all. We have trucks

6 that run in stop-and-go traffic. Aerodynamics don't help

7 them a bit. And we in fact a lot of times where we've

8 pulled them off because they get damaged.

9 One gentleman commented about the low ground,

10 that they would have ground clearance. We've seen that.

11 Our customers sometimes tear up our nose cones.

12 One of our largest customers is the Postal

13 Service. They're not happy to play to replace that. So I

14 just want to make that comment.

15 We have several trailers running across the

16 nation with all different types of aerodynamics on them.

17 We think it's a great thing. But we would like to see you

18 not make it unilateral across the trucking industry.

19 Thank you.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

21 Kelly McKechnie, Felipe Lopez.

22 MR. LOPEZ: My name is Felipe Lopez, and I belong

23 to the -- well, thank you for the time. I belong to the

24 nonprofit organization of southern California.

25 All I want to say is that there is more people

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345163

1 been affected by pollution including animals and plants

2 than people being effected by the economic impact of these

3 regs. I'm sorry for all these people, but I think health

4 and environment should come first. So we are in favor of

5 these regulations.

6 Thank you.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, sir. Charley

8 Rae -- Mr. Rae.

9 MR. RAE: Charley Rae with CalCIMA, which is a

10 California Construction and Industrial Materials

11 Association, trade association for aggregate and ready-mix

12 concrete producers throughout california.

13 Our members basically supply local building

14 materials for roads, bridges, schools, highways,

15 waterways, et cetera.

16 We're urging adoption or consideration of DTCC

17 alternative primarily because it provides a more

18 achievable compliance schedule. Also particularly because

19 it has low mileage provisions which are important for a

20 lot of local suppliers. Helped them out a lot.

21 Our members have a lot of different fleets.

22 Different ways they're effected by this regulation.

23 Typical fleet with the ready-mix concrete mixer truck

24 fleets, they are typified by generally traveling short

25 distances. Average job is within a 15-mile radius.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345164

1 Longer turnover time. They have complex equipment that's

2 difficult to retrofit. And they often operate under the

3 power take-off units which reduces the engine performance

4 and leads to plugging of the filters when they're

5 attached.

6 In general, our members are supportive of the

7 efforts to reduce the diesel emissions. They've been

8 trying to do what they can. Purchasing the newer tiered

9 engines as they can. This has come at some cost to them

10 too because generally the newer engines you have more

11 expensive oils. You have more expensive coolants. You

12 have loss of fuel economy, anywhere from 15 to 25 percent

13 as you go from one tier to the next.

14 Of course, it's all been made more difficult to

15 get ahead of the game with the economy, credit tightening,

16 and difficulty of getting the funds, whether it's Moyer or

17 Prop 1B or one of the other grant programs. I know it's

18 particularly an issue for some of our members in the San

19 Joaquin Valley.

20 In closing, we just urge the DTCC proposal be

21 given more consideration. One thing I think --

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Sorry. Thanks.

23 Luz Elena Tafalla.

24 MS. TAFALLA: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and

25 Board members.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345165

1 My name is Luz Elena Tafalla, and I am here

2 representing Consejo de Federaciones de Estados Mexicanos.

3 They provide leadership training to concerned citizens for

4 seven months. I live in community along with a lot of

5 groups who are here with me. And we are here because we

6 are supporting the proposed issue and CARB. Because

7 living in the area of San Fernando valley, I can not have

8 a good. I see hundreds of families who are contamination

9 around us. And we consider this is very important for the

10 health of our children, for the health of the citizens.

11 And we are expressing our concern. And please

12 our voices. You have the power to make the decisions

13 that's going to save the life of a lot of seniors,

14 children, and for the health and better of community. And

15 please hear our concerns.

16 Thank you for the time. Thank you.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Dr. Richard McCann, are you

18 here?

19 Dr. MC CANN: Good afternoon. I'm an economist

20 with the Aspen Environmental Group, and I've been retained

21 by CIAQC to make comments on this.

22 I have written comments that I submitted on the

23 general economic methodology on benefit estimates, impacts

24 to individual industries and firms, and on scaling up

25 costs of statewide impacts.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345166

1 But I wanted to talk about two particular issues.

2 One is on the baseline assumptions that it is --

3 you should be making comparisons across alternatives that

4 should start with your initial assumptions. They're

5 already in the document. And then changing those baseline

6 conditions. And then making comparisons against those

7 baseline conditions.

8 The DTCC alternatives takes this approach, but

9 the staff should modify theirs to do the same thing.

10 The other thing is that you need to consider the

11 synergistic effect with AB 32. And that's not evident in

12 the document on the diesel in-use rule. You need to take

13 into account the effects of VMT and changes in fuel

14 composition from AB 32.

15 But the final thing I want to talk about is that

16 when you move forward with implementation, you should also

17 tie this to funding for compliance. That you basically

18 you created a public benefit which should be funded by the

19 public. And you've shown large net benefits. That means

20 that you should be imposing the costs on those who are

21 benefiting most.

22 The rule includes mandated scrappage in it which

23 would eliminate the economic value of much of the existing

24 equipment and most of those trucks that were purchased

25 were purchased under the assumption that they were

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345167

1 compliant with the environmental rules at the time.

2 The Board should recognize the intent that was

3 made by those fleet owners and should help further

4 compliance with the rules as they change them in the

5 future.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

7 Christine Davis. Gavin McHugh.

8 MR. MC HUGH: Madam Chair and members, Gavin

9 McHugh on behalf of the California Manufacturers and

10 Technology Association. Thank you for the opportunity.

11 I will be very brief.

12 CMTA is very concerned about this regulation and

13 the impact it will have on the cost of doing business of

14 every company manufacturing in California that receives

15 their raw materials by truck, delivers their finished

16 product by truck, or in any way depends on the goods

17 movement system in California.

18 Unless a manufacturer has no out-of-state

19 competitors and only sells within the state, they will be

20 at a disadvantage to manufacturers elsewhere.

21 This rule will make California manufacturers less

22 competitive because of the increased cost to receive the

23 raw materials and the increased cost to move their

24 products to market.

25 CMTA supports the DTCC proposal. We think it's

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345168

1 more cost effective and provides necessary flexibility to

2 meet some of these requirements. Thank you.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

4 Steve French. Mark Sisco.

5 MR. SISCO: Good afternoon. My name is Mark

6 Sisco. I'm a heavy equipment mechanic and inventor.

7 I'm here this afternoon to ask for your help in

8 moving forward in the building of a new type of motor.

9 The principles have been used in high horsepower

10 two-stroke diesels for over 70 years. I twisted this

11 design enough to create a four-stroke engine that will be

12 very small and compact in size and very powerful. It's

13 now being produced for the government, for the military,

14 and light, small aircraft in two-stroke diesel form.

15 I'm asking you folks for your help today. Thank

16 you.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. You can send us some

18 further information, and we can try to get a response on

19 that.

20 Jason Osborn.

21 MR. OSBORN: I'm Jason Osborn, Director of

22 Transportation for Manteca Unified School District. We

23 serve about 23, 000 students in south San Joaquin County.

24 I'm here today to relate to you that I believe

25 this equates to a mandated cost to impose this on school

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345169

1 districts in tough economic times.

2 I would suggest that as you go forward you tie

3 this to funding. Maybe under the Lower Emissions School

4 Bus Program or something like that for implementation.

5 My main concern is this is going to effect

6 students. What affect does this rule have when we take

7 ten buses out of a rural school and replace it with 250 to

8 300 motorists? School bus comes in, shuts down to prevent

9 idling. These cars are going to sit in congestion and

10 create more air quality problems.

11 I also am concerned we have a number of students

12 in rural areas. Implementation of this rule and costs

13 passed on to the school district will result in them

14 losing their transportation. We simply don't have the

15 budget to do it and are facing further cuts this year.

16 This will effect students' safety. If we remove

17 students from school buses, the safest form of

18 transportation and place them in private passenger cars,

19 they will be less safe.

20 I encourage you to delay implementation of this

21 and to look for other funding sources before you implement

22 it. Let's not leave children behind.

23 Thank you.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

25 Steve Rhoades.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345170

1 MR. RHOADES: This is the last time.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Who were you this time?

3 MR. RHOADES: Riverside County. And there's just two

4 points.

5 The first is that Riverside County as you know is

6 a growing county. And due to the arcane school finance

7 transportation --

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You need to get closer to

9 the mike.

10 MR. RHOADES: Due to the arcane school financing

11 transportation laws, they receive very little State aide.

12 This is not your problem. But it just shows that they do

13 have less money to spend on buses and transportation. So

14 they have more difficulties.

15 This is one tiny issue I would like to bring to

16 your attention. One of their districts failed to do the

17 annual emissions studies as required by ARB. They thought

18 it was every two years. And so they are going to be fined

19 I think $18,000 with a press release.

20 And I don't know all the specifics of this. But

21 part of the comment that was made was, well, we take this

22 from ARB staff. We take this real serious, because we

23 want to show everybody we're serious about this. $18,000

24 is still a lot of money for the school district. Maybe

25 they should be fined.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345171

1 But I would just urge the staff to have some

2 appreciation for the conditions of the school districts.

3 When people do something wrong, you should hit them and do

4 something appropriate. But just use a little judgment.

5 Thank you.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

7 Christine Foster.

8 MS. FOSTER: Hi. Christine Foster, Tulare County

9 Asthma Coalition. I'm a respiratory therapist, and also a

10 Citizen's Advisory Committee members on the San Joaquin

11 Valley Air Pollution Control District.

12 And so you obviously know that my issues do go

13 towards the health end of things. We have put in air

14 quality flags at the schools. Their colors correspond

15 with the colors of the air quality to warn parents and

16 children when the air quality is bad so that they -- the

17 ones that have lung issues or heart disease issues, those

18 children can stay indoors on those days. Actually, I

19 think that's pretty extreme that it has to be done that

20 way.

21 But other people have had some really wonderful

22 stories to tell, and I'm not going to focus in on that.

23 What I have noticed in our area is that the

24 professionals don't want to come to our area because of

25 our extreme air quality issues. We're in extreme

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345172

1 non-attainment.

2 We're also losing our professionals to other

3 areas like the Bay Area, Oregon. And they're in the

4 newspaper, so I know that that's backed up. So we're

5 losing professionals. We're not attracting professionals.

6 And our children that are being educated are moving out of

7 the area and into cleaner areas.

8 So I just wanted to say there is an impact on the

9 economy locally that may not have been explored yet today.

10 And I do urge passage of these regulations.

11 But also I urge that you also work on the

12 incentives and looking at different ways of funding some

13 help to industry. In the San Joaquin Valley, we have the

14 DMV fee that was raised to help fund that.

15 Thank you.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay.

17 Jacqui Hansen. Eric Sauer.

18 Oh, here, running down. Okay.

19 MS. HANSEN: Hi. I'm Jacqui Hansen, and I'm here

20 with Breathe California.

21 And I want to urge you to adopt the proposed

22 regulations and reduce global warming as well as toxic

23 emissions and to do it quickly with no delay.

24 I have bronchial asthma, and I have some other

25 health issues that were handed down to me from my mom.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345173

1 But these things can be affected by you with, as they say,

2 a stroke of the pen. And I would like to see my future to

3 be without one of those canisters with a little hose on

4 it. I really appreciate your looking at this and passing

5 it quickly. Thank you.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

7 Eric Sauer.

8 MR. SAUER: Thank you, Madam Chair and Board

9 members, for allowing me the opportunity to speak with

10 you. My name is Eric Sauer with the California Trucking

11 Association.

12 I guess what we've learned from testimony so far

13 is that ARB staff has essentially dismissed the impacts of

14 the current economic crisis on emission forecasts with a

15 half-baked analysis that trivializes those impacts.

16 ARB staff does not know how many trucking

17 companies will go out of business because staff

18 erroneously believes Prop 1B funds will prevent such a

19 thing from happening; that the narrow restrictions on Prop

20 1B will severely hamper their ability to relieve costs of

21 the truck and bus rule; that the prospect of the pending

22 truck and bus rule has sucked the current trade-in value

23 out of used trucks and is preventing truck owners from

24 using them to buy new trucks.

25 We feel that ARB needs to reevaluate the emission

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345174

1 inventory and re-visit that DTCC proposal. Also

2 performance an outside economic impact study to understand

3 the true impact of this recession. Thank you.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Raquel Ortega, Brian Davis,

5 Julie Sauls.

6 MS. SAULS: Hello.

7 First, I just want to take this opportunity to

8 acknowledge the efforts of everyone that has worked on

9 this project.

10 I also though want to acknowledge the efforts of

11 all the members of the DTCC coalition for all the hard

12 work and their presence over the past two days and your

13 diligence in listening to all of their stories.

14 I think what's important is we look at this from

15 three standpoints. We need to look at this from the

16 standpoint of the economy, income, and equipment. Because

17 those are the three key factors of what we are discussing

18 here today and have been over the course of the past two

19 days.

20 Three things that you need to take into

21 consideration is when the staff put out their analysis

22 while we were in the height of our downturn, although

23 can't stay it was the height then because it's getting

24 worse every day, nothing was taken into account about

25 what's going on with the current economy. Their only

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345175

1 reference was to call it insignificant. And I think you

2 have heard over the course of the past two days nothing

3 but a lot more than insignificant.

4 Secondly, the availability and the cost of the

5 equipment I think there are vast discrepancies between

6 what we have been telling you and what you have heard in

7 the staff report. Please, I urge you to re-examine that

8 issue.

9 I think it is extremely important that you also

10 take into account the income levels that this industry is

11 currently facing and their ability to make these

12 investments. The lending institutions aren't in a

13 position. They have been tightening down with the

14 financial market. And I ask that that be re-analyzed.

15 Finally, I would just close and say we'd really

16 like to work together with you as a partnership with the

17 coalition and with the staff and the members of the Board

18 to create a regulation that is achievable and does reduce

19 emissions. And I thank you very much for all your hard

20 work.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

22 Is this Marshall Woodmansee?

23 MR. WOODMANSEE: My name is Marshall Woodmansee.

24 And I want all diesel buses to become electric and diesel

25 trucks to clean up their engines. You are not the Profit

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345176

1 Protection Agency but the Environmental Protection Agency.

2 Protect me. Thank you.

3 MS. WOODMANSEE: My name is Sophia Woodmansee.

4 I believe all buses and trucks should have a

5 filter on their engines. We have lived across from a bus

6 depot three-and-a-half years. It will be much more

7 pleasant to see the buses going buy and to know they do

8 not pollute as much.

9 Thank you.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you for coming.

11 Thank your parents for bringing you.

12 Jill Gayaldo, are you here? You got two seconds.

13 Should be down here.

14 And then Ray Kidd right afterwards and Matt

15 Griffin after that.

16 MS. GAYALDO: I think if we update the list we'll

17 get people down here quicker so we know when we're due.

18 Jill Gayaldo, the Director of Transportation for

19 the Elk Grove Unified School District serving 64,000 kids

20 in the Sacramento County area.

21 My district's absolutely committed to clean air

22 for my community and my kids. We have voluntarily

23 installed 53 retrofit traps on our school buses. Every

24 one of those were accomplished using grant funding.

25 Clearly, if you want traps on our buses, provide the funds

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345177

1 and we'll do it.

2 I have to inject a dose of reality here. If you

3 think this has been an easy project, you need to

4 reconsider. There is not one day that goes by that I

5 don't have up to ten percent of my fleet down due to

6 repairs.

7 I think everybody needs to be aware of that so

8 they know that is one of the issues they'll be working

9 with.

10 An absolute priority has to be replacing our

11 oldest school buses. California voters recently

12 recognized how important that was and passed Prop 1B. It

13 will provide funding for less than half of the eligible

14 buses in the state, which are a minimum of 23 years old.

15 There is a flaw in the assumption that school districts

16 will replace these buses on their own. If that was the

17 case, we wouldn't be driving them now.

18 This year, California schools are going to be in

19 a crisis. We all know that's true. And I'm going to

20 compete between buses and books, and I'm going to lose.

21 If you want to have parents give these -- if I take one

22 bus out of service, between 30 and 60 kids will be in

23 their parent's cars on the road. And we haven't done

24 anything for air quality and we certainly haven't helped

25 them with safety. If you intend to mandate that we

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345178

1 replace these buses and pull them from service, you must

2 provide the funds.

3 MR. KIDD: Good afternoon. My name is Ray Kidd.

4 I appreciate you all hanging in there all day. And I'm

5 from Oakland. I was glad to see the kids here from

6 Oakland High. I graduated from Oakland High well over 40

7 years ago.

8 For the last 35 years, I've lived in West

9 Oakland. And for over 20 years, I drove a diesel truck.

10 As a result of both of those, I suspect I have somewhat

11 diminished lung capacity. And that's the way it happens.

12 And that's too late for me, but it's not too late for

13 those kids from Oakland High School, for their younger

14 brothers and sisters and for their children to be.

15 An every day fact of life in West Oakland is if

16 you are out and about, at any point you could get a snoot

17 full of diesel fumes coming into your nose. And believe

18 me, that's not very pleasant. And it's sometimes so

19 irritating, you want to rub your nose off your face.

20 It's not the kind of message we want to send out

21 to people. It's the kind that -- puts you in like a

22 hostile competitive -- like the environment is your enemy.

23 And that's not what people need to feel. If we're ever

24 going to get out of the mess we are in, we've got to work

25 with our environment.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345179

1 And I mean, I'm down with the fact that the

2 health rationale for these regulations is sound and the

3 economic rationale is good. But as it was alluded to

4 earlier that there was a ten-to-one cost benefit ratio for

5 implementing these regulations. I think that's great.

6 I think another consideration as I brought out

7 here is that before those fumes ever get into your lungs

8 and before they ever get into your blood, they come

9 through your nose. There's something we have to take

10 account of. That people need to have clean air in order

11 to feel good about their environment and themselves. So I

12 hope that you go forward with these regulations. And let

13 me say one other thing. There was -- I won't say it.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you for coming.

15 Matt Griffin.

16 MR. GRIFFIN: Hello. Thank you.

17 I just want say I've been in the dump truck

18 business all my life since out of high school. And I

19 invested in efficient green trucks back in '93, and then

20 again in 2000. And now they're virtually going to be

21 worthless on this plan. It's not going to be worth it to

22 retrofit. And you're going to need us.

23 I just wanted to say I hope you think about the

24 DTCC. And that will help all of us out in the dump truck

25 business. Because you're going to need us with flood

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345180

1 control, earthquakes. You're going to want us here. And

2 we are not going to be here unless you consider this DTCC.

3 And that's it. Thank you.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All right. Thank you.

5 Michael Lewis.

6 MR. LEWIS: Good afternoon. I'm Mike Lewis from

7 the Construction Industry Air Quality Coalition.

8 Let's talk about some facts. There is no money.

9 We are in a recession. Fuel usage is down. Mileage is

10 down. Revenue is down. Emissions are down.

11 None of your numbers reflect that. Your data is

12 old. If this rule were being written today, it would look

13 completely different. We need to fix that. The $800

14 truck is a myth. It was numerous last night watching your

15 staff explain how somebody is going to buy a four-year-old

16 noncompliant truck, spend 20 to $40,000 on a retrofit, and

17 then replace it a few years later. That's a bad financial

18 decision. These guys aren't going to do that, and you

19 wouldn't do it either. But that $800 truck has to exist

20 on paper or the cost balloons somewhere close to $8

21 billion. You need to fix that.

22 The technology isn't ready. It's not working

23 well in the factory installed units. You heard that from

24 the people that own them. It's really not ready for

25 retrofit.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345181

1 Next month you're getting an abysmal report from

2 your staff on the retrofit availability, and you're going

3 to extend double credit for off-road because no one is

4 buying those limit product that is available. These guys

5 won't fix them either. You need to fix that.

6 The billion dollar fund isn't really available.

7 Most of the people in the room won't qualify for those

8 funds. They don't operate enough hours. The trucks are

9 too old. They don't meet the cost effectiveness criteria.

10 The irony is your rules won't allow you to spend your

11 money to do it. You expect them to spend their money to

12 do it. You need to fix that.

13 The health benefits are grossly exaggerated. If

14 you don't have the money to comply, your only option is to

15 shrink your fleet. That is happening in huge numbers on

16 the off-road fleet, and that means you dump equipment and

17 you dump it out of state. You're merely moving the

18 problem somewhere else. There isn't a real benefit. The

19 problem just moved to a different neighborhood. You need

20 to fix that.

21 Finally, there is no consideration for the

22 cumulative effect. Construction has 75,000 trucks in this

23 rule. It costs a billion dollars to comply if you believe

24 the staff numbers. Add portable, off-road, and forklifts,

25 and the cost to the construction industry alone is over $5

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345182

1 billion if you believe the staff numbers. You need to fix

2 that.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Your time is up.

4 MR. LEWIS: I beat the clock. Where's the

5 cookies?

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

7 Mr. Lewis was number 128. We have 139, because

8 two people walked in at the last minute. After number

9 139, which is Stephanie Roche, the record is going to be

10 closed. I'm just warning you right now that we will be

11 closing the record at that point.

12 So if there's somebody on the road thinking about

13 driving over and testifying because there as something

14 you're burning to say, you can come watch. But you will

15 not be allowed to testify. All right.

16 Dennis Fox.

17 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Madam Chairman, I

18 apologize. I know you to have leave.

19 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Let me apologize to all of

20 you after sitting here, late into the evening last night,

21 and as late as 10:30 today I though we would have time to

22 finish this. And unfortunately, I'm not going to be here

23 when you complete this.

24 But I wanted to leave maybe just a couple of

25 quick observations. Let me share some of you who are in

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345183

1 San Diego know I've shared my own personal experiences

2 with asthma. I can speak with some knowledge of that.

3 And I've been a strong advocate of programs.

4 I want a rule. Absolutely no question about it.

5 My concern is that at a time when there is such incredible

6 certainty that we are being given a lot of information

7 with a great deal of certainty. And that distresses me.

8 For the business community, revenues are down.

9 Mileage is down. Emissions are down. Available credit is

10 down. Value of assets is down. And it's all being

11 presented that somehow, you know, we can roll right

12 through this.

13 Agriculture was given a softer glide slope. And

14 I don't know the differences between -- the specific

15 difference between the DTCC proposal and our own staff

16 proposal. But it seemed to me that there was lot of

17 similarities at least as it was presented by our staff in

18 terms of -- and the difference didn't appear to be so

19 great.

20 The ultimate end is identical. They both get to

21 the same places. And I thought that perhaps there would

22 be an opportunity and had hoped that maybe if time allowed

23 that staff would be able to get into a discussion of the

24 specific differences and maybe how we can tighten that up.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Your time it up.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345184

1 You're a Board member. We'll extend your time.

2 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Thank you.

3 That we could get into looking at some of the

4 differences and see if there was a way to soften that

5 glide slope a little bit. Because what I hear is that

6 while that may not take care of everybody's problems, it

7 may be enough to get some of these businesses over.

8 I do have some concerns about some of the

9 retrofits that I've seen, specifically the skirts on the

10 trucks that may have flex and what I'll call a transverse

11 direction but not longitude direction. And I think the

12 guy that testified about the loading ramps. And I think

13 there are some problems there. And I can show you streets

14 that none of those trucks could get through without

15 destroying those skirts. And I can give you

16 intersections.

17 So I have some concerns about stepping into

18 programs, mandating programs that on the surface everybody

19 should do voluntary because they save you a lot of money.

20 And it seemed like if that was really the case, we

21 couldn't have to mandate them. But there's something

22 basically flawed I think and especially in some of the

23 equipment that's being proposed.

24 So I don't have answers to all these questions.

25 I'd like to be part of this discussion. And unfortunately

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345185

1 I can't be.

2 But I'm very concerned. I do want a rule, but I

3 don't think we're there.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm sorry you have to leave

5 because you have been a participant. And you've asked a

6 lot of good questions along the way.

7 I'm hoping that the staff will take note of these

8 questions and that we will at least get answers as we

9 proceed to a discussion and a decision on what we're going

10 to do. We really appreciate your -- I know this is an

11 issue you've spent a lot of time on. I appreciate it.

12 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: There were only a few of

13 us here in '98 when we declared diesels to be a toxic

14 contaminant. We've been in this for the long haul. We

15 want to see this. And it's not a black and white issue

16 that some have presented. So I wish you well.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. Thank you very

18 much.

19 (Applause)

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Safe travels.

21 Already. We will proceed. I called Dennis Fox.

22 Paul Schlenvogt.

23 MR. SCHLENVOGT: Thank you very much.

24 You did a very good job on that old German name.

25 Thank you. I'm here representing the Washington

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345186

1 Professional Beekeepers Association.

2 One of the things that hasn't been particularly

3 addressed here is the effect that these regulations will

4 have on an intestate trucking company coming into the

5 state of California.

6 And I'm aware that all the trucks will be

7 required entering the state to meet these standards, which

8 there's no question about it. Diesel emissions need to be

9 improved.

10 And I have a small fleet of trucks that I bring

11 in from out of state personally. They're fairly new

12 trucks. But never the less, I doubt seriously they will

13 ever meet these standards in the fashion they are being

14 presented today.

15 In light of colony collapse disorder within the

16 beekeeping industry, clearly the beekeeping industry has

17 suffered. We can't afford to have increased costs. These

18 things have all been hashed over considerably here today.

19 But I reflect upon a story as we are presenting

20 into what could be a recession approaching the Great

21 Depression.

22 A gentleman out of the west hauled sheep to

23 Chicago on the rail yards with his load. When he

24 finished, he didn't have enough money from the sale of his

25 sheep to pay for the freight. The checks are typically

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345187

1 written two checks, one to rail freight company and one to

2 him. He had no money. And the freight bill was left

3 unpaid.

4 He caught a ride back to Montana. When they got

5 there, they wanted to collect the freight bill. And he

6 told the railroad company, I have no money. But I do have

7 more sheep.

8 The point here of course is that we all want to

9 take care of our families. But as we approach a poor

10 time, there were people in these times that could not

11 afford health care. They could not afford to put food on

12 the table. And we are at a time when the trucking

13 industry is the freight industry of today. And we can't

14 afford to put it in a role where it can't bring freight.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

16 William Davis, followed by Nidia Bautista.

17 MR. DAVIS: Cathlene came and got me because it

18 take me longer than two seconds to stand up.

19 I'm Bill Davis. I'm the Executive Vice President

20 of the Southern California Contractors Association. I'm a

21 member of the Board of Directors for the Construction

22 Industry Air Quality Coalition, and a very proud member of

23 the Off-Road Implementation Group of the California Air

24 Resources Board.

25 As a member of that group, we've been working

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345188

1 together with your staff after the adoption of a rule to

2 make sure that the rule is implemented in a way that is

3 effective and yet achievable for our industry. And I

4 appreciated the opportunity. I appreciate this Board for

5 actually making that group, which we suggested several

6 times during the off-road discussion, a reality.

7 I also want to thank the Board for keeping its

8 promises regarding the crane industry. December 6, 2006,

9 our crane members met with this Board in Bakersfield and

10 were given assurances by the Board the staff would work

11 with the industry. They did. They've come up with a

12 reasonable approach to this industry. We thank you for

13 that effort.

14 I pulled a green card on this, neutral card.

15 Because we do agree with the goals of reducing emissions

16 from on-haul trucking. We do have questions. And I think

17 you've heard literally 200 questions about how to do it.

18 I don't think the rule is quite ready. I don't think it's

19 quite prime time yet, but it's very close.

20 And my suggestion would be that as this Board has

21 done on previous enormous rules like the off-road rule,

22 you take a little bit more time. You bring in

23 representatives from the environmental groups, the

24 industry groups, and your staff, and we've worked through

25 some of those questions that have been brought up.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345189

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Sorry. Thank you for your

2 comments. And we appreciate your work on the Committee.

3 Nidia Bautista.

4 MS. BAUTISTA: Good afternoon, Madam Chair.

5 Nidia Bautista with the Coalition for Clean Air.

6 And just want to say that it's been over a year

7 this regulation has been workshopped. And I think it's

8 really culminated in one that's meeting our goals to save

9 lives, protect health, help clean our air, at the same

10 time provide industry with some compliance flexibility.

11 So we are strongly in favor and supportive of this

12 regulation.

13 That said, we are concerned about the existing

14 provisions for agriculture. We would like to see those

15 strengthened. Specifically, we're interested in

16 protecting the small farmer. Let's make sure the policy

17 reflects that. Let's provide -- ensure that the proposal

18 changes so that there is provisions for the small farmer.

19 If you're three or smaller fleets, ensure there is a

20 mileage cap at 10,000 miles a year. Making sure that

21 we're still protecting communities from the deadly impacts

22 of diesel pollution. So we need those traps on ag trucks.

23 And also let's narrow that definition of

24 agriculture trucks. That should not include the pesticide

25 trucks or the chemicals trucks. That's just not what we

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345190

1 would consider the farm truck.

2 And in addition to that, I think there's concerns

3 because that inventory is largely based on the industry's

4 own survey data. There's also concerns about the

5 localized impacts. And while we appreciate the language

6 in the resolution, it doesn't go far enough. And I think

7 those staff resources to evaluate localized impacts would

8 be better used for enforcement. We would like to see

9 enforcement be a key cornerstone of ARB's efforts.

10 So we do support this regulation. We're going to

11 be working hard to get incentive funds. And many of us

12 have been working on that and continue to be a part of

13 that, including part of -- working with industry along

14 with Board Member D'Adamo and others to try to find more

15 funding. And we're going to commit it to that. We want

16 to make sure that happens.

17 We want to ensure assistant to these truckers

18 that may not be aware of this regulation. So we're going

19 to be there right with you. And just know that we are

20 strongly in favor of this. And we definitely don't want

21 to see this regulation be delayed. If anything, if you

22 want to evaluate in a year, year and a half, looking at

23 the economy, we would prefer that over delaying adoption

24 today.

25 Thank you.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345191

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

2 Sean Edgar.

3 MR. EDGAR: Chair and Board members, Sean Edgar,

4 the Executive Director of the Clean Fleets Coalition.

5 It's a pleasure to be in front of you this

6 afternoon on behalf of both green and brown companies.

7 The recycling and solid waste collection companies I've

8 been proud to represent for the last eight years in front

9 of this Board, along with the brown companies, the

10 California Dump Truck Owners Associations that are moving

11 a lot of the dirt that are going to create the green

12 manufacturing and the green highways hopefully for greener

13 equipment to make a green California. So green companies,

14 green jobs. That's a great combination.

15 However, there are a few items I'd like to bring

16 to your attention.

17 Over the last eight years, as your Board has

18 passed the fleet rules, there are few observations I can

19 tell you.

20 First of all, the past through assumptions on

21 cost has really not occurred. In some of our individual

22 sit-down meetings with you in the central valley, one of

23 our members shared with several of you that had a two out

24 of ten success ratio with the cities and counties in which

25 that particular company does business. Not to say it

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345192

1 can't happen. It happens extremely slowly. And the

2 assumption that automoatic auto pass-through is going to

3 occur is very nebulous and not certain.

4 And I say that after five years of implementing

5 the rule that your Board intended and expected cities and

6 jurisdictions and individual private companies to work it

7 out. It's taken a long time to work out.

8 Timing is everything. And we look into the

9 forecast now, switching to the Dump Truck Owners

10 Association, you heard several of their members testify

11 about their personal impacts. But just to share four

12 specific needs. We want to be part of the $28 billion to

13 re-build California, but we need an extended Time frame.

14 Why? Because the State of California possibly as early as

15 next week will fail to issue bonds for $660 million a

16 week. That's State Treasurer Lockyer's words. The State

17 because of the financial crisis may not be able to do

18 system re-building. We need a cumulative impact analysis

19 as Dr. Telles mentioned. 13,600 jobs are insignificant

20 unless it's my job, and I like my job.

21 With those, thank you very much and please adopt

22 the alternative.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you, sir.

24 Sharon Banks.

25 MS. BANKS: Madam Chair, I'm Sharon Banks with

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345193

1 Cascade Sierra Solutions. Otherwise known as CSS.

2 We are a nonprofit organization with a mission to

3 save fuel and reduce emissions from heavy-duty diesel

4 trucks.

5 CSS provides low cost financing with extended

6 terms to help facilitate the upgrade and replacement of

7 the Legacy fleet. To date, CSS has funded over 1,600

8 projects through our revolving fund, saving over 3.2

9 million gallons of diesel.

10 CSS operates over at the 49er Truck Stop here in

11 Sacramento to help truckers with grant applications and to

12 facilitate financing arrangements. And, yes, we have

13 several $800 a month trucks available.

14 The truck financing program that's going to be

15 offered here by AB 118 is going to provide assistance for

16 some companies. But most of the customers that CSS has

17 financed will not qualify under traditional commercial

18 banking guidelines. None the less, CSS has demonstrated

19 ability to collect from these companies.

20 CSS is committed to help upgrade the legacy fleet

21 by coordinating public and private resources, helping find

22 affordable compliant vehicles, and providing low cost

23 financing with extended terms to California truck drivers.

24 In closing, I'd like to say CSS is willing to

25 help the industry with whatever resources we can garner to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345194

1 help them meet the time frames of this historic rule in

2 the most affordable manner possible. Additional funding

3 added into the CSS revolving fund would be a great help at

4 this time. And we fully support the rule. Thank you.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Sharon, I'm going to extend

6 your time for a minute, because I know you've been

7 involved in the port truck rule implementation. And that

8 was, of course, just passed -- what? A year ago or so?

9 And although times weren't as hard in the state, I think

10 the level of concern because we were dealing with some

11 very old -- and very old trucks and also an industry

12 that's characterized by a lot of very poor owner-operators

13 that this was not going to go well.

14 So I'd like to give you a minute to talk about

15 how that's working out.

16 MS. BANKS: There's still a lot of challenges in

17 L.A. and Long Beach. I think with the controversy between

18 the rules between Los Angeles and Long Beach, its's

19 difficult for drivers to know -- especially for

20 owner-operators to know if they're going to be allowed to

21 be in business long term.

22 But we do have some really great projects going

23 on down there. We've got one I just got a 4.3 percent

24 interest rate. And this was a project that we got the

25 shipper to help pay for the subsidy to help the drivers

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345195

1 get into cleaner trucks. And there wasn't any grant money

2 involved. And we got the payment for the driver at $550 a

3 month.

4 It's innovative. But we have to turn over every

5 rock and figure out every way we can do to help make this

6 happen. Because it really is the right thing to do for

7 health and for the economy long term.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

9 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Madam Chair. Go ahead.

10 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Before we let you go,

11 Ms. Banks, how many truckers have you seen and how many

12 have you ever been able to come up with solutions for?

13 MS. BANKS: We are working with a number of

14 customers. We have 1200 Proposition 1B grants pending for

15 our customers. Many of them are small businesses.

16 One thing that I would like to say is that we

17 need to have a separate category in the grants for dump

18 trucks and construction vehicles, because they always go

19 to the bottom of the list because they don't operate very

20 many miles, although they are very old and very polluting.

21 And you know, we need to have a category like CARB did for

22 the port trucks so they would only compete within the

23 construction area.

24 But I think that might be something you consider

25 in a future rule change. They really need help. They

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345196

1 need more help than any other industry that I've seen

2 right now. It's just so depressing to look at the

3 economic forecasts and see what they're faced with.

4 BOARD MEMBER BERG: So out of the 1,200

5 applications, how many people did you see get those 1,200

6 applications

7 MS. BANKS: We sign up just about anybody who

8 wants to sign up. So I think we see several thousand

9 applicants come through. And we talk to trucking

10 companies every day that need our assistance. And we're

11 happy that we got 215 grants approved out of the Bay Area.

12 So they don't have the final list, but the list they

13 proposed to the Board, there's 215 of our customers that

14 are going to get a $50,000.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Are you going to be able

16 the stick around if we have questions for you as we move

17 forward?

18 MS. BANKS: Yes, ma'am.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you very much.

20 Barbara.

21 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Just a brief background.

22 What is your funding? The administration cost, where does

23 that come from?

24 MS. BANKS: We have a variety of different

25 funding sources. We have some funds from the state of

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345197

1 Oregon. We have some private sector donations. We also

2 have some supplemental environmental project dollars that

3 are starting to help. And we have some funding from

4 carbon credits, although not for any of the CARB-funded

5 projects. We're not allowed to sell the carbon credits

6 for that.

7 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Do you have enough staff

8 to go state-wide? Are you able to help people in southern

9 California as well as northern California?

10 MS. BANKS: We have one outreach worker in

11 southern California. And, you know, he's actually put in

12 more than 200 grant applications there, and we've financed

13 a number of projects in southern California.

14 But we don't have enough money to do an outreach

15 center there yet. We got the one funded here with small

16 grant from CARB. And with some help from the Sacramento

17 Council of Governments. But we would love to have a

18 facility like the one we have here in Sacramento in the

19 Los Angeles basin.

20 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: This might be something

21 that we could help with along with maybe South Coast and

22 San Diego. Because I can see how you would be helpful to

23 some of these individual owner-operators who just simply

24 don't have to time to go out and hire. They don't have

25 the wherewithal to hire any assistance. Where large

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345198

1 companies can hire -- at least they used to be hire some

2 assistance. So you could be very helpful. Madam Chair.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We'll keep that in mind.

4 Thanks.

5 Janice Kim.

6 MS. KIM: Madam Chair and members of the Air

7 Resources Board, thank you for this opportunity to speak

8 today. My name is Janice Kim. I'm a public health

9 physician and pediatrician with the State Department of

10 Public Health and formerly a medical epidemiology with the

11 Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment, part of

12 Cal/EPA.

13 Through my previous work in the field of air

14 pollution epidemiology, I can fully appreciate the health

15 impacts of particulate pollution on Californians.

16 Today, I'm speaking on behalf of the American

17 Academy of Pediatrics California District. The American

18 Academy of Pediatrics represents 5,000 California

19 pediatricians that are dedicated to the health, safety,

20 and well being of infants, children, adolescents, and

21 young adults.

22 In December of 2004, recognizing the health

23 impacts of air pollution on children, the American Academy

24 of Pediatrics published a policy statement documenting

25 those far-reaching impacts. This statement I was proud to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345199

1 actually be one of the author -- lead author on this

2 document. And the statement reviews the health impacts of

3 air pollution in children and identified diesel exhaust

4 particulates as an important air pollutant with

5 far-reaching health impacts.

6 For this reason the American Academy of

7 Pediatrics recognizes the importance of the regulations

8 you're deciding on today to protect children against

9 diesel exhaust particulates.

10 When I was a pediatric resident in southern

11 California, I took care of numerous children coming into

12 the ER with asthma exacerbations. And now the slides are

13 showing us many of these were due to or made worse by

14 particulate pollution.

15 We've learned from studies that have been funded

16 by the Air Resources Board, and we really thank you for

17 that. We have learned that through the university of

18 southern California studies that long-term children

19 growing up in communities with particulate pollution have

20 increased -- impacts the ability of children's lungs to

21 grow.

22 And these are particulate pollution -- it's not

23 just a long-term effects. We are learning now that even

24 very short term exposure of diesel pollution and

25 asthmatics, two hours walking on a very busy street with

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345200

1 lots of diesel pollution can cause deficits in lung

2 function.

3 So just in addition to ambient levels of

4 particulate pollution --

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm afraid your time is up.

6 MS. KIM: Thank you. I want to really thank you.

7 And I know you're going to do the right thing for

8 children. Thank you.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Appreciate that.

10 Sean Realite, followed by Tim Gibbs, followed by

11 Marie Witte, and Stephanie Roche. And that will be the

12 end.

13 MR. REALITE: Hi. My name is Sean. I'm a

14 volunteer with Breathe California. I hope you pass the

15 truck laws so I breathe clean air. Thanks.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you for coming.

17 Tim Gibbs.

18 MR. GIBBS: Thank you, Madam Chair. Tim Gibbs

19 with the National Parks Conservation Association.

20 And keep this brief. Sequoia, Kings County, and

21 Joshua Tree National Parks have meter freeways with diesel

22 trucks transport and massive freight running parallel to

23 these parks. As such, these parks have among the dirtiest

24 air in the entire National Park Service and endanger both

25 National Park Service workers as well as visitors to these

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345201

1 parks. So we strongly support the diesel truck rule and

2 urge you to reconsider the exemptions for agricultural

3 vehicles.

4 Thank you.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you.

6 Marie Witte.

7 MS. WITTE: Gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, and

8 other concerned people here, my name is Marie Witte. And

9 I'm here representing Mike Roche, Incorporated, and other

10 small businesses --

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You need to speak closer to

12 the mike if you can.

13 MS. WITTE: I'm here to represent Mike Roche,

14 Incorporated, and other small businesses that stand to be

15 decimated with the buy new trucks regulations that is

16 being proposed here.

17 This proposal is unrealistic. In these hard

18 economic times many businesses, both large and small, are

19 failing at record rates.

20 CARB's goal of lowering emissions in our state

21 might have already been achieved with the elimination of

22 these businesses. As many of us struggle to hold on and

23 weather this financial storm, the implementation of CARB's

24 plan will be the final nail in our coffins.

25 We as Californians are all in favor of cleaner

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345202

1 air and have led the way. We have paid higher prices for

2 CARB ultra-low sulfur diesel, while areas in other states

3 run higher sulfur content at lower rates.

4 We have embraced biodiesel in our fleets with its

5 short self life, clogging of filters, and higher prices.

6 As CARB has cut its path to cleaner air, it is not without

7 error. Mandated CARB diesel destroyed nearly every fuel

8 pump in California with its lack of lubricity additives.

9 Mandated MTVE ruined California's health, water, and soil

10 with a product that could not be remediated out.

11 Please consider this as the next CARB error and

12 examine the economic implosion you are proposing to

13 mandates on California.

14 Our existing fleet burns so clean that you cannot

15 see a hint of smoke. We are not government or

16 multi-billion dollar corporations with unlimited funds.

17 We will not be bailed out by the government. We are small

18 businesses that have built this state's roads, homes, and

19 businesses with our sweat equity.

20 The auctions are full of equipment that have

21 built the state. This is a testimony to the people who

22 cut their finances a little close to the best. Those of

23 you who have planned for this economic downturn cannot

24 weather this storm and carry these new regulations with

25 us.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345203

1 After more than 50 years of doing business the

2 correct way by regulations in California, we had always

3 expected to have a legacy business to pass on to our

4 children.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. Your time is

6 up. I see there is someone else here from your company.

7 MS. WITTE: Our plea is just to end this or

8 postpone this today. Thank you.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I understand.

10 MS. ROCHE: Good afternoon. Thank you for

11 hearing us today.

12 My name is Stephanie Roche. I'm the Vice

13 President of Mike Roche, Incorporated. I'm the third

14 generation of my family business involved in it today.

15 This mandated proposed will devastate our

16 company. I run the truck stop side of it. I work hand in

17 hand on a daily basis with small business trucking

18 companies. They have already parked their trucks and laid

19 off many of their employees. These companies are not

20 large businesses that show massive profits at the end of

21 the year. My petroleum company is not a major oil

22 refinery that has records profits.

23 On the contrary, we are losing our livelihood.

24 Our employees are family. We have many staff that have

25 been with us for 20 years. Passing this regulation will

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345204

1 leave us with no choice but to move our company

2 headquarters out of the state and lay off many of the

3 people that we love to work with and leave them with no

4 way to provide for their families.

5 Thank you.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank you. At this point,

7 the public hearing portion of this meeting is now closed.

8 I would like to turn to staff. I know there have

9 been a lot of notes taken along the way. I would like to

10 move quickly into a discussion. So we can begin I think

11 with your summary really of where we are right now, and

12 then we can talk about whether there are some ideas that

13 we may be able to discuss further about how to potentially

14 modify the rule.

15 But let's start. I'd like to say before we get

16 into this that I didn't hear a single person say they were

17 opposed to clean air. I'm not surprised. Who would be

18 opposed to clean air? Whatever position you came here to

19 advocate, nobody is against cleaning up the air. And I

20 appreciate the fact.

21 I also appreciate the fact that I don't think

22 anyone, no matter how committed they are to the cause of

23 public health, truly believes that massive unemployment or

24 large scale bankruptcies of business are good for public

25 health or for the economy. So I don't think we really

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345205

1 need to be having this discussion at the extreme end.

2 I think what we're talking about here is a

3 situation where the Air Resources Board is under a legal

4 mandate. We're under a mandate from federal law. We're

5 under our own state law requirements. And we have a

6 mission, because it was given to us to try to make the air

7 better and to do so within a time frame that's laid out.

8 But I think we can also within that general

9 mandate, we are going to be looking for every possible way

10 to make this rule feasible and livable. Sustainable is a

11 good word. People sometimes use that word meaning only

12 environmentally sustainable. But sustainability is a

13 concept that carries within it concepts of the economy and

14 equity as well. So that's I think laid out very clearly

15 what we're trying to do here in a general sense. And we

16 are now going to have to get into the specifics.

17 Mr. Goldstene, do you want to do any kind of

18 additional summing up or stating of answers to some of the

19 questions? How do you want to proceed?

20 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Just to say that,

21 of course, staff have been listening the past two days

22 about Board member concerns and questions and from the

23 stakeholders. So we've prepared some clarifications and

24 some suggestions on how we can get the debate started.

25 And then this will be very short, about eight slides.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345206

1 Eric.

2 (Thereupon an overhead presentation was

3 presented as follows.)

4 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

5 WHITE: Thank you, Mr. Goldstene.

6 In response to Dr. Sperling's questions about

7 SmartWay certification, we wanted to point out there are

8 worldwide standards, automotive standards available and

9 are in place to evaluate trailers and tire efficiencies.

10 The tractor efficiency evaluation are at the present

11 qualitative.

12 Next slide.

13 --o0o--

14 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

15 WHITE: Staff talked to EPA staff, and they are working on

16 a new procedure and they expect that one will be finalized

17 and available by the end of 2009.

18 We are planning to report back to the Board at

19 the end of 2009 as well with an update on the status of

20 the procedure and what option are available should one not

21 be complete by that date.

22 Next slide.

23 --o0o--

24 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

25 WHITE: There's a number of questions that were raised

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345207

1 regarding some of the financing. I think we heard quite a

2 few numbers about what the actual financing cost would be

3 for loans for trucks. And so we wanted to provide some

4 examples about the various types of financing and the

5 dollars that would be needed.

6 The first column, the one titled "New Shows." I

7 think what we heard about what the financing cost would be

8 for a new truck about $2500 a month. We also wanted to

9 show some examples about how that financing can be --

10 those costs can be brought down through the use of grant

11 money and anywhere in the range of $910 per month for a

12 brand-new truck that was financed over ten years which can

13 be brought down substantially using the used

14 three-year-old truck with a grant to about $640 per month.

15 And the last column shows what some of the small

16 fleets may face. A five-year-old-truck is what would be

17 needed for a small fleet to meet the compliance

18 requirements. And what we see there is about $800 per

19 month.

20 We heard from Ms. Banks about the types of loans

21 that they are issuing which are right in the range of

22 this. So you can see the importance of both used trucks

23 and the reduced costs they provide as well as the ability

24 of financing to bring down those costs substantially from

25 new truck financing prices.

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1 Next slide.

2 --o0o--

3 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

4 WHITE: Staff also realized that we didn't do the best job

5 yesterday making it clear in our response to Supervisor

6 Roberts's questions about how the changing economy is

7 effecting emissions from the trucking fleet.

8 We do have and are evaluating the data necessary

9 to understand what is happening in the industry and its

10 impacts on emissions.

11 As Supervisor Roberts noted, there are several

12 key questions that need to be answered. What is the

13 impact on vehicle mileage? What is the impact on vehicle

14 turnover? And which vehicles that are not being turned

15 over are being used last? Are they the dirtier vehicles

16 in a fleet or cleaner vehicles in a fleet?

17 We do have good data on the first two. And we

18 actually get that data on a very regular basis and

19 continually look at that as part of our ongoing work.

20 But what we don't know at this point in time is

21 which vehicles are being used less? Are they the older

22 vehicles in the fleet or newer vehicles in a fleet?

23 So what we are proposing to do is to come back in

24 the next year and report on what is the economy's impact

25 on the trucking industry and their activity and how any

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345209

1 changes in that are affecting emissions.

2 Next slide.

3 --o0o--

4 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

5 WHITE: So this leads into three suggestions that we have

6 for the truck and bus regulations.

7 The first is to report to the Board by the end of

8 next year on the state of the economy and the trucking

9 industry and its impact on emissions.

10 We are also proposing a credit for downsizing.

11 This was part of the staff's proposal yesterday, but I

12 think with everything everybody was absorbing it wasn't

13 really picked up on. But we are proposing a credit for

14 downsizing that essentially would provide a one-year

15 extension for a vehicle in a fleet for each vehicle that

16 was retired early, which would extend by year the

17 compliance needed for that vehicle by a year.

18 Next slide.

19 --o0o--

20 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

21 WHITE: We're also suggesting that we could extend the

22 small fleet provisions by a year, which would provide an

23 additional year for small fleets to meet the first

24 compliance requirement in 2014.

25 You would have to cleanup requirements prior to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345210

1 that date. And it would provide greater access to

2 available funding in both the Carl Moyer Funding and the

3 Prop 1B program

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: And your definition of

5 small fleets again?

6 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

7 WHITE: Three vehicles or less.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Have you been tracking the

9 comments from the school bus people at all? Did you have

10 any thoughts about that particular issue given the

11 cutbacks in funding that the schools are experiencing

12 right now?

13 ON-ROAD CONTROL REGULATIONS BRANCH CHIEF

14 KITOWSKI: Yes. We have been tracking the comments from

15 the school bus school districts. And primarily the

16 comments are focused on a number of different areas.

17 One area I think we wholeheartedly agree with

18 them is we would like to get for funding. We'd like to

19 turn over the oldest buses quicker, and we'd like to work

20 with them to try to achieve that funding.

21 And we have as part of the Lower Emission School

22 Bus Program received funding seven of the last eight

23 years. So even in tough times, we've found the ability to

24 get some funding and make that available to school

25 districts.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345211

1 We do disagree on one point that the school

2 districts often have an emphasis. They would like the

3 newer buses. They would like the funding to replace the

4 older buses. As we said in our analysis, we can bring ten

5 buses into compliance with particulate filters for the

6 same cost as we would spend to replace one bus. And we

7 think that is a better use of the funding, the $200

8 billion that's available. We have the ability to put

9 retrofits on every public school buses with the money that

10 we already have.

11 And so we would recommend the shift in funding

12 more towards retrofits and use with the existing funding

13 and then use the local funding, the AB 923 Department of

14 Motor Vehicle funding, in order to help replace and then

15 try to get new funding by the 2018 deadline.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: It's a really tough issue,

17 because I think as several people testified, any business

18 or any entity would rather go with newer vehicles and turn

19 over the oldest ones, but get brand-new things as opposed

20 to putting on retrofits.

21 But this is a fleet that stays around for a long

22 time. And the oldest ones are still being operated and

23 they're very dirty. And the exposures to the kids riding

24 in them as well as other people are extraordinary.

25 So it does seem as though it's an area where we

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345212

1 have to go against the culture and try to get people to

2 understand that this is a public health provision and that

3 we really have to take action if we're going to do

4 something to effect the health situation.

5 I'm going to stop for a moment and let Board

6 members react to this. I think the idea of extending the

7 time and basically this downsizing credit. Let's talk

8 about that for a minute. That's for small fleets, right:

9 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

10 WHITE: Yes. That would apply to any fleet that is

11 shrinking but getting smaller through the retirement of

12 vehicles. That is correct.

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: That's what we hear is

14 happening. We have to be realistic about that.

15 What that says is that in a down economy, you're

16 going to get a year's compliance on the trucks that you

17 have on a truck-by-truck, one truck per truck basis.

18 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

19 WHITE: That's correct. For every vehicle you retire,

20 another vehicle in the fleet could be delayed by a year.

21 BOARD MEMBER BERG: That would be both in PM and

22 in NOx?

23 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

24 WHITE: Yes.

25 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: When would that start?

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345213

1 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

2 WHITE: The 15-day changes we had initially proposed would

3 have had that start on January 1st of 2009. I think we

4 heard the number of vehicles and fleets that are

5 downsizing today that we may want to be a little more

6 retrospective in that date.

7 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: I think that's a very good

8 idea. Because I suspect some of that is being done as we

9 speak. But they ought to get credit for. Because we have

10 assumed that truck would be on the road and emitting, and

11 now it's not.

12 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: The 15-day change

13 proposed January 1st, 2009, as Eric just said, and we

14 looked at this and thought we could go back six months

15 prior the that to the July 1st, 2008, when we can start

16 counting credit.

17 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I have a question.

18 What's the window on the other side? I hear you

19 saying you'd go back as far as when it would kick in.

20 What does early mean on the end side?

21 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

22 WHITE: Early would be in advance of any of the

23 requirements.

24 I'll ask Tony if you have some thoughts about

25 what the impact may be in terms of a point in which we

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345214

1 started to have some issues.

2 MR. BRASIL: The way we proposed in the 15-day

3 change is if your fleet is smaller from the date that we

4 had proposed in January 1st of 2009, if your fleet is

5 smaller in the future year, that credit would apply. And

6 it doesn't matter when you retire that vehicle. It could

7 have been this year that would serve as the same credit in

8 your compliance year.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Can I bring us back to the

10 issue that has been the division? I don't know if you

11 brought the slide back again, but there was a lot of

12 reference to the counter position, the counter suggestion

13 by the DTCC.

14 And the reason why staff has not entertained that

15 proposal -- your objection to the proposal was it didn't

16 get us the amount of reductions we needed in the year that

17 we had to be achieving those reductions to meet our SIP

18 requirements. And that's the bottom line here is that

19 that is what this is about. It's not just that we are

20 trying to get cleaner air. It's that we have to get

21 cleaner -- a certain amount of reductions in tons in a

22 certain year in order to satisfy the legal requirements.

23 Does this proposal do that? And if so, can you

24 explain how that works?

25 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345215

1 WHITE: I think this proposal would. Because if you look

2 at the requirements of staff's -- the proposed regulation,

3 it would effectively have about a 50 percent replacement

4 to 2010 technology by 2014. And we would have -- all of

5 the vehicles would have the retrofits on them.

6 So even if a fleet shrinks by 50 percent, we

7 would still get to where we needed to be in terms of those

8 credits would be exhausted and now they would be cleaning

9 up the remaining vehicles by 2014. So I don't think we're

10 going to sacrifice benefits by offering this proposal.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Can I turn to our SIP guru

12 here. Ms. Terry, you're the one who's the guardian of

13 this as far as our EPA submittals are concerned.

14 And we certainly heard especially from the San

15 Joaquin Valley, but also from the South Coast, people

16 remember very clearly that we extended their deadline and

17 bumped up their level of non-attainment to make them an

18 extreme air quality area. And we told them we were going

19 to do everything we could to get there faster than that.

20 But recognizing what we're in at the moment, is

21 this going to allow us to meet the commitment that we

22 made?

23 DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER TERRY: Yes. Just

24 briefly. It's important to note that this rule is by far

25 and away the most significant rule in the SIP and that is

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345216

1 for both PM2.5 and for ozone in both key regions, the

2 South Coast and San Joaquin valley.

3 The attainment deadline for PM 2.5 in both

4 regions is 2014 and the dates for ozone are later. So the

5 legal test is do we achieve the tons we need by 2014? And

6 as proposed, it does meet that requirement.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, yes. Go ahead.

8 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: With this reduction plan,

9 it seems to me it would be hard to calculate what you're

10 going to get when you don't know how many trucks are

11 actually going to be reduced. So how can you make a

12 statement we're going to get closer to our SIP plan if we

13 don't know how many trucks are going to be reduced by a

14 reduction? It's a totally unknown number.

15 Anybody out there know how many trucks we're

16 going to reduce?

17 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Maybe it would be

18 helpful if we finished the staff presentation.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm sorry. I thought you

20 were.

21 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We had a few more

22 slides related to --

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: There was a pause that led

24 me to believe you were finished. Why don't you go ahead

25 and lay out your ideas. I apologize.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345217

1 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: I stand corrected.

2 That was the last slide.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So we're just trying to

4 answer the question. Thank you.

5 This is why I get to be the Chair, because of

6 those kind of blinding insights.

7 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Dr.

8 Telles, the way we structured it is that except for the

9 few exceptions that are in there, like the ag program and

10 some of the specialty vehicles, is that all the trucks by

11 2014 would have filters on them. So we know that's the

12 goal. It will still be met.

13 The change we're suggesting is to just sort of

14 back-end load this a little bit. So we would have small

15 fleets not having to do anything until just the year

16 before that compliance deadline.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: In other words, you're

18 pushing it back as far as you can possibly can. What's

19 going to happen is assuming we continue on this path and

20 nothing else changes that in the year before the deadline

21 there is going to be an awful lot of people rushing in to

22 get filters.

23 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: And

24 there's some risk in that. And there's some delay in the

25 public health benefit detail occurring in the year before.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345218

1 But from a SIP standpoint it will get us all the reduction

2 we need. Vehicles will be turned over. In the case of

3 the small fleets, they'll be doing the retrofits just

4 before the deadline.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: And the trade, off they get

6 more time.

7 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: In this

8 case, if there were five percent of the vehicles compared

9 to today were sidelined because of the economy, those are

10 essentially zero emitting vehicles. And these ones with

11 filters on them come to be very close from a PM standpoint

12 at least to being zero emitting vehicles.

13 And so all of them, whether it's partly sidelined

14 and the rest operational or whether the economy is

15 recovered and we have them all back in work again, we'll

16 have the lower emissions at least for the directly emitted

17 PM by 2014. And that's our first deadline we have to

18 face.

19 So I don't think there is really any uncertainty

20 what the end result is. Even though there's uncertainty

21 in the exact number of vehicles that will be out there.

22 We can't predict that. We don't know what -- the economy

23 could be booming or could be still in the doldrums at that

24 time. We don't really know.

25 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: The suggestion by reducing

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345219

1 by one vehicle -- and maybe Eric mentioned what type of

2 vehicle. A fleet may have one truck that travels between

3 10,000 miles and another truck that travels 500,000 miles.

4 If you take the one truck out that's not being used too

5 much, it doesn't get you too far on your plan if you just

6 delay it a year. See what I'm saying?

7 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: The

8 point is it does delay just one year. If you look

9 two years, we'll basically caught up. So what it does is

10 give you more time to take the action on the vehicles that

11 you do still have in your fleets. But it's only one more

12 year time for each one you drops. So well before 2014

13 would still in a position --

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: The problem with the DTCC

15 proposal wasn't that it didn't get you to the right end

16 point. It was that it got you to the end point too late

17 to meet the Federal Clean Air Act. And what your proposal

18 is designed to do is to drop the line down just in time.

19 So push it to the last second, basically. I mean, that's

20 really what it boils down to as far as I can see.

21 BOARD MEMBER BERG: And to speak to Dr. Telles's

22 two points, on the downsizing, would it be a fair

23 assessment that we would really gain some emissions

24 because -- reductions because they in fact downsized

25 sooner than the rule required?

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345220

1 So if they're downsizing now and they didn't have

2 to do anything until 2011 or 2010, we are actually gaining

3 those emissions, even though they're getting one credit.

4 But the credit would be taken whenever the requirement

5 would be; is that correct? So they're downsizing in 2008.

6 They didn't to have do anything until 2010. Do we in fact

7 gain that 18 months of reduced emissions when they're

8 going take to credit in 2010?

9 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Well, I

10 think yes we do. Only caveated by the uncertainty of

11 we're not sure which vehicles are going to be downsized

12 and which ones will be delayed. So there could be, as Dr.

13 Telles says, some difference in the VMT of those amount of

14 travel of the vehicles and things like that.

15 BOARD MEMBER BERG: That's true with the rule all

16 together, because the rule does not discern between those

17 lower mileage vehicles, lower in relationship to the

18 higher miles vehicles. So that's true in the rule

19 regardless.

20 But I think my observation is that I don't see it

21 as an emissions disbenefit doing this credit.

22 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: No.

23 BOARD MEMBER BERG: It think it will be an

24 emissions benefit.

25 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: I think

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345221

1 the disbenefit we were talking about was pushing off

2 everything for small fleets by one year. In one year,

3 that would have a disbenefit.

4 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Right. I was really focusing

5 on the credits.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Ms. D'Adamo.

7 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I would just say I rely

8 heavily on staff's charts. In the original staff

9 presentation, there are three slides, 33, 34, and 46 that

10 provide information on the baseline compared to the rule

11 under NOx, same issue on PM.

12 And then there is a many comparison on slide 46,

13 the industry proposal compared to staff's proposal

14 compared to the baseline.

15 So what would be helpful for me -- I favor

16 flexibility. And I think that what staff is proposing

17 sounds like, you know, any additional lead time or

18 flexibility you can provide would be terrific.

19 My only question is, do we hit the deadline? And

20 it sounds like what Ms. Terry is saying, we hit the

21 deadline in 2014 for PM, and then ozone 2017 for the

22 valley. And it's the same date for South Coast. I think

23 Sacramento even had some concerns they wanted to make sure

24 that we need the rule for Sacramento as well.

25 DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER TERRY: The Sacramento

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345222

1 plan will come to you in a couple of months. We've

2 ensured the numbers work for Sacramento as well.

3 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: As long as the deadlines

4 are met, I think the flexibility is a good idea.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes, Dr. Balmes.

6 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Well, this may sound like

7 heresy coming from somebody who's been and will continue

8 to be a strong public health advocate. But I actually am

9 concerned about some of the testimony I've heard about the

10 economic impacts, just as much as I'm concerned about

11 maintaining public health and air quality.

12 And to me, there's kind of a fundamental equity

13 issue that I'm going to bring up if nobody else will. I

14 noticed that the agricultural stakeholders were not

15 thrilled but sort of at least reasonably happy with the

16 proposal because of the flexibility that is allowed for

17 small -- for low mileage uses.

18 And you know, a logger or a body load truck

19 operator from northern California who also has low

20 mileage -- I guess I'm sorry, but I don't see why they

21 should be treated definitely than the agricultural

22 community.

23 So I realize that it would push us with regard to

24 our SIP commitments, but it would be helpful to me to see

25 an analysis. Could we provide some flexibility for

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345223

1 smaller truck operators with low, low mileage in other

2 areas outside of -- other sectors outside of agriculture

3 in attainment areas? I don't propose that for any of the

4 out of attainment.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Any loggers in Los Angeles

6 are out of luck.

7 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: I would concur with you.

8 In attainment areas, is there something that we might do?

9 Now I know in talking to staff some of the trucks

10 will qualify that we're talking about in agriculture.

11 They would be in that category. But perhaps there are

12 others that you just mentioned.

13 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

14 WHITE: Well, I guess there's a couple questions here.

15 One is can the low use mileage exemptions that we

16 have there, could they be increased? As we develop the

17 regulation, we looked at a number of higher mileage

18 thresholds to gauge what's the sensitivity on emissions

19 associated with higher thresholds.

20 And I'm going to ask Michael Benjamin who did

21 that analysis for the staff to go through what some the

22 findings were on looking at that.

23 MR. BENJAMIN: We did indeed look at mileage

24 thresholds, not just for the agricultural fleets, but for

25 all of the other fleets that we identified in the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345224

1 inventory which was quite specific. And so we looked at

2 them at both above 5,000 mile thresholds and below. We

3 looked at it in terms of different fleet sizes. And so we

4 have a good sense numerically of what the impact would be

5 if we chose to provide other provisions for other fleets.

6 And I think that certainly as we move forward

7 with the rule, one of our constraints was the SIP

8 commitment. And so from a technical perspective, staff

9 have done the analysis. We have a sense of what the

10 emission impacts would be of these various provisions.

11 And so we would be willing and prepared to fold that in if

12 the Board choose to provide provisions for some of the

13 either fleets.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Are you capable of

15 discriminating based on what air basin the fleet is

16 located in though? Because that's really what the issue

17 is here. I think the Board members who are concerned

18 about equity -- and I think we all are certainly aware of

19 the fact that there is something that does kind of put a

20 particular target if you will on agriculture if they are

21 just defined as being this unique industry. And I think

22 there was a reason -- I mean, the staff did come up with a

23 rationale which perhaps you'd like to restate just so you

24 remember it.

25 But I do think that if we're talking about making

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345225

1 distinctions based on something that's within the Board's

2 ability to deal with, whether you're in attainment or

3 non-attainment area is pretty fundamental. So it would be

4 good to be able to answer that question.

5 MR. BENJAMIN: I think you raise a good point,

6 Chairman Nichols.

7 We're continuing our work to improve our spatial

8 allocation of trucks. It's extremely challenging. Unlike

9 light-duty vehicles who travel primarily within their

10 county or air basin of registration, it's very clear to us

11 as we develop this inventory that trucks operate very

12 differently.

13 Our assessment at this time is that the heavy,

14 heavy-duty trucks, oftentimes they'll travel throughout

15 the state. Not just in their air basin of registration.

16 The medium heavy-duty trucks tend to stay within

17 their air basin of registration. So we do have some

18 initial sense based on surveys of what the truck travel is

19 like.

20 But quite honestly, this is a major issue for us.

21 And we're working on it with an extensive field program as

22 part of the next SIP development. And so it is something

23 that we have an initial understanding of, but that we need

24 to do some more work.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: How fast are you likely to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345226

1 have some better inventory data?

2 MR. BENJAMIN: Our objective is to have

3 preliminary results in the next six months. And we will

4 be releasing the next update to the EMFAC model in early

5 2010. And this is going to be one of the most critical

6 updates to the model is assumptions about spatial

7 allocation of trucks. So we have been investing

8 significant resources in the field study.

9 In addition, we've been working very closely with

10 Caltrans. As I mentioned yesterday, we have a variety of

11 methods for estimating truck VMT. We would look to work

12 with them and are doing so to have consistent VMT

13 estimates if possible.

14 We're also working with regional transportation

15 planning agencies like SCAG to be able to use their models

16 to estimate what the truck VMT is. So we recognize that

17 this is a critical issue. And we've invested and are

18 investing a lot resources to improve our estimates.

19 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

20 WHITE: If I can clarify one thing. The regulation

21 already provides for vehicles that are operating

22 exclusively in those areas. In other words, they're not

23 contributing to poor air quality, ozone issues or PM

24 issues in other regions, the ability to not or the

25 opportunity to delay the replacement of their vehicles

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345227

1 through 2020 with only requirement that they put on

2 particulate filters.

3 So the issue really comes down to whether or not

4 there is a need for particulate filters in those regions.

5 And that really gets to issues associated not so much with

6 ambient air quality, but around issues associated with

7 localized risk.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes.

9 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Now we are talking about

10 inventory a little bit. And I have an inventory question

11 from the San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control

12 District.

13 To hit our 2014 PM attainment goal, we need to --

14 from the SIP plan or from the truck rule, we need to get

15 like 60.6 tons of NOx. It's not in your documents. It's

16 from the San Joaquin Valley. Maybe on page 33 of your

17 document, somewhere in there what you suggested.

18 But at any rate, what I'm getting at is how solid

19 is that information? In our district with the most

20 polluted -- one of the most polluted and probably the most

21 polluted?

22 The reason why I bring that up is we've had a lot

23 of people talk about ag with the exemption and all that.

24 Paul Baker, I think he was the rice person, indicated that

25 from the -- he actually made an error. I would like to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345228

1 correct him. He mention that had the total pollution from

2 ag vehicles according to your inventory is four percent.

3 Total statewide pollution is actually 2.1 percent for NOx.

4 And half of that is actually in the San Joaquin Valley.

5 From my calculations on this, if we totally eliminated the

6 ag fleet in the San Joaquin Valley, we are still about 90

7 percent off from attainment of the NOx to kind of get to

8 the PM. It's not in there. I'm just kind of in my head.

9 So to me, in our area, if those numbers are at

10 all right, you know, one of the problems we have is

11 there's 80,000 trucks that go through our valley. And

12 were those accurately considered? And are we really going

13 to get to attainment if we do this, or was that -- how

14 solid is that inventory?

15 MR. BENJAMIN: Well, one of our biggest

16 improvements in terms of understanding truck traffic in

17 the valley is previously we assumed all the trucks

18 traveling through the valley were the same age. And now

19 we're recognizing and we reflected in this inventory the

20 fact that they are very different in their ages and that

21 there's a lot of VMT, a lot of vehicle miles traveled from

22 trucks that are passing through the valley and that are

23 newer.

24 And so we are recognizing and we are accounting

25 for the fact that there is a population of trucks within

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345229

1 the valley that are resident to the valley that are a lot

2 older.

3 We heard testimony from witnesses about the

4 trucks being 17 years old for ag trucks. That's indeed

5 the case. So we are reflecting that. There is a lot of

6 truck traffic through the valley from out-of-state trucks

7 that are three or four years old. So we believe that we

8 have reflected and are reflecting in the inventory the

9 diversity of truck traffic through the valley.

10 DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER TERRY: Perhaps I could

11 just offer a bit of an overview, because it really does

12 come back to the fundamental inventory as a whole for the

13 attainment demonstration for this SIP.

14 And as I mentioned, the reason why this rule is

15 the most significant new rule is because fundamentally the

16 largest category of emissions in both the South Coast and

17 the San Joaquin Valley is heavy-duty trucks. And that's

18 followed by passenger vehicles. And then you tier down

19 from there, when you're looking at NOx which is the key

20 pollutant for both PM2.5 and ozone.

21 So a lot of work was done during the development

22 of this SIP to really hard work on getting improved

23 inventory emissions for all the categories. That isn't to

24 say we're done. We always improve the inventories. It

25 was a very thorough vetting of all the emission categories

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345230

1 during the 2007 SIP process. So it's best we have. And

2 it's very clear heavy-duty trucks are large and

3 significant.

4 What we have learned, just to highlight in the

5 rule development that's happened post adoption of the 2000

6 SIP, is a better understanding of those newer, cleaner

7 interstate trucks traveling through the valley and the

8 number of trucks and the miles traveled with the older

9 dirtier trucks in the valley.

10 So as a result, the real benefits of this rule

11 are accruing from the captive truck fleets within the

12 valley. And that's the thing that we have learned since

13 the inventory was adopted.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. Other areas of

15 comments?

16 I want to get into the financing issue too before

17 we reach any final decisions on any of this. Ron.

18 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Help me out. Back to

19 the slide on the economic. I just want to know what kind

20 of economic analysis we're talking about. You had this

21 economy and free fall. A comment this is the worst since

22 the Depression. As we listen to the testimony today,

23 yesterday, a sense of dominos happening all across the

24 state. We look not very far from our place and see $40

25 billion deficit of the state, which they don't seem to be

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345231

1 very doing a good job of even looking at.

2 What are we going -- there was another -- I'm not

3 looking for the 12 highest cities. You had what you were

4 going to do.

5 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

6 WHITE: Well, what we wanted to show on that slide first

7 of all is that a lot of the data that we need to collect

8 to do that evaluation we currently have in place.

9 But what we plan to do is to look at how vehicle

10 mile traveled are going to change over the next -- over

11 the course of the next year, how vehicle purchasing is

12 changing over the course of the next year, and get a

13 better sense from registration information from the

14 Department of Motor Vehicles so we can look to see whether

15 or not the fleet is changing in terms of its age

16 differently than what we've estimated. So we can get a

17 sense of are older vehicles, which fleets may choose to

18 get rid of their older vehicles first because they're less

19 reliable. Are those the vehicles fleets are getting rid

20 of. Or are they getting rid of newer vehicles That

21 they're still making payments on, because they can no

22 longer afford to make the payments on the vehicle. We'll

23 get a sense of what is happening.

24 That's the key question for us to understand

25 whether emissions are going up or going down or are

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345232

1 continuing along as we've estimated.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. What I want to focus

3 on was really the continuing questions about useful and

4 accessible the financing mechanism that we're talking

5 about are. Clearly, the amounts of money that are

6 potentially available are substantial, although they

7 certainly don't cover the whole cost of compliance with

8 the program.

9 And there's the philosophical questions about,

10 you know, whether you try to spend it all now quickly

11 because it's a kind of stimulus and also because it's a

12 way of then making the case that more money is needed.

13 There's also been some suggestions about

14 alternative ways to get some additional money into the

15 system, which I think would be a good idea, although I

16 don't think anybody thinks the Air Resources Board all by

17 itself could do them. But there may be some ability on

18 our part to influence that in the Legislature, because

19 obviously this is an issue that's of great interest to

20 people statewide and to legislators as well.

21 And then there's the just the question from an

22 administrative perspective what are we doing to really

23 organize the funds in a way to make it clear we're going

24 to have to have a system set up on day one when this rule

25 starts to hit or six months in advance of day one that

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345233

1 will enable people to come in and quite seamlessly figure

2 out how much money they can get and get it.

3 So is that Jack? Probably your call here.

4 ON-ROAD CONTROL REGULATIONS BRANCH CHIEF

5 KITOWSKI: I can start this off.

6 You know, there's a number of factors wrapped

7 into this. And we have engaged a variety of different

8 people with expertise, many of whom, several of whom

9 you've heard from today, Mike Paparian with the State

10 Treasurer's office and the financial ties they have to the

11 banks to get the loan program or tying straight into a

12 well-established loan program and well-established banking

13 mechanism to alleviate some of the credit crutch basically

14 the entire world is seeing right now. The Sharon Banks

15 model Cascade Sierra you heard toward the end of the

16 testimony is also one where we're looking to tap into as

17 well and expand. I think the Board seemed to express that

18 that was a good idea.

19 We've traditionally for the last ten years when

20 we've operated incentive programs, it's been, you know,

21 somewhat of the bureaucratic model. We've gotten the

22 money. We've got it into the air district's hands. Air

23 districts release RFPs, Request for Proposals. They send

24 it out. We recognize that. We completely recognize that.

25 At a time when you're oversubscribed four to one,

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345234

1 maybe that's all you needed to do at that time. And as

2 was mentioned before, at a time when most of the people

3 who are coming in for the funding, they had environmental

4 people on the staff who could apply and take the time to

5 work through this process.

6 We completely recognize that's not where we're at

7 today. We're appealing to a different class. We've had

8 many meetings with individual banks, individual truck

9 dealerships. And we are planning an outreach plan that

10 will tie all of these pieces together: The loans, the

11 voucher program, and incentive with a streamlined process

12 that we talked about yesterday as well, working with truck

13 stops, working with dealerships. Places where these

14 individual owner-operators already come. They can ask

15 questions. They'll have the information available with

16 streamlined procedures.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think we need more.

18 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

19 WHITE: I think as we look at this, we don't need to

20 re-create the wheel. There's several programs that are

21 already in place that we are partnering, whether it's the

22 Treasurer's office, whether it's the Cascade Sierra

23 Solutions that are effectively handing out money in the

24 way that we've proposed to handle this for this program

25 for this rule.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345235

1 So by doing that, by taking the money we have and

2 building on those models, I think we have a high level of

3 confidence that we'll be able to have a successful

4 program, to be as successful as other programs are today

5 in doing exactly what we're proposing.

6 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Madam Chair.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes, please.

8 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: If I may make a

9 suggestion. And I realize these are not easy economic

10 times. But sometimes you can take from existing staff at

11 least to dedicate an individual to work with everyone,

12 your office with our key staff people under the diesel

13 rule, and then those who are going to access this

14 financial assistance. At least somebody who serves as an

15 ombudsman to make sure that it's happening.

16 And I'll tell you why I think it's important. I

17 was very interested in some of the off-road diesel efforts

18 and some of the programs that we had, particularly in the

19 South Coast, for demonstration products of the off-road

20 diesel effort. Okay. Wonderful idea.

21 I got involved initially and then discovered we

22 had a one little hick-up. And that was when we did the

23 contracts with the individuals that were going to utilize

24 these demonstration devices, we had some difficulty. And

25 all of a sudden, you know, we kind of were not moving as

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345236

1 fast as I would like to move. I would like to move right

2 along.

3 So I think we need to say we have to have

4 somebody that's responsible for seeing that all of the

5 wheels are moving along, the outreach, all of that. And I

6 would hope that we would be smart enough to figure out how

7 to go about it.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yeah. Well, I mean, my

9 limited experience in this area is that everything that

10 can go wrong, will go wrong. And it won't be the things

11 that you expect.

12 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Exactly.

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So we better be organized.

14 We are dealing with an industry that doesn't have staff.

15 I know the fact that so many people have come and spent so

16 much time with us is attributable to two things.

17 Obviously, the rule is important. And also the fact they

18 got time on their hands at the moment. If they had

19 something better to do like be out driving and making

20 money, they would be there instead; right? So hopefully

21 that will happen.

22 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Mary, just want to

23 follow-up on Barbara's point. Perhaps every two months we

24 ought to have report to this Board about the financing and

25 what's happening so it's not just simply something we do

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345237

1 today, but that we keep it center ring.

2 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Well, that sort of

3 person, that point person that Ombudsman could do that

4 easily for us.

5 BOARD MEMBER BERG: As a caveat to that, I'm

6 especially concerned that I'm making a leap when we're

7 talking about the amount of funding, whether it's grant --

8 particularly in grants. Are we talking about that we can

9 help 25 percent of people, 75 percent of the people?

10 Because my sense is is that we're over sold. Are

11 we going to be over sold in the grant situation as well?

12 And so what are we doing about the remaining people?

13 Those are the people we were hearing from today, is that

14 what are we going to do about that?

15 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Could I make a follow-up

16 point to that going back to the equity issue?

17 So I understand the way we currently administer

18 the Prop 1B Program, the Carl Moyer Program, that we try

19 to get the biggest project for our buck. So we're

20 targeting heavily used trucks in the worst areas.

21 But I don't think we can have our cake and eat

22 it, too. We're asking drivers -- low mileage drivers,

23 relatively low mileage drivers in non-attainment areas to

24 also make significant investments in their trucks. And

25 yet from what I heard, they're not able to access the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345238

1 funds. So, you know, if we are requiring them to do

2 something that's going to put them out of business, you

3 know, that doesn't seem like we're getting -- it's the

4 most cost efficient way to do this. Either the rules have

5 to be relaxed for them or they have to get an equal share

6 at the trough. And I realize there's not enough money.

7 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: You said non-attainment. I

8 think you meant attainment areas.

9 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Yeah. Thank you.

10 I understand where -- I'm not charging staff with

11 the impossible. But I'm trying to point out that we are

12 asking a lot out of people that don't seem like they have

13 access to financing.

14 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I have a follow-up between

15 these two questions.

16 Ms. Berg was asking what percent will be covered.

17 And Dr. Balmes, the issue of cost effectiveness in current

18 regulation. If you play out the extension of time the ag

19 community gets and that the attainment areas get on low

20 miles, on low mile trucks, at that point would we be in a

21 better position to be able to advocate for significant

22 changes in the grant programs so that we can relax the

23 cost effectiveness? In other words, would we already have

24 a pretty good percentage already taken care of through the

25 bulk -- the main portion of the rule?

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345239

1 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Well,

2 there's a couple of considerations here.

3 One is the amount of money that's actually grant

4 type money which is giving money to people is on the order

5 of ten percent of the cost of the regulation. And then

6 we've got another unit about the same size that is low

7 cost loans. So that's not money giving away. But just by

8 way of helping people get loans that maybe can't get loans

9 today. And that's mainly focused at the smaller

10 businesses who have difficulty getting loans. So those

11 are the two packages we have.

12 You're right. It doesn't in any way come close

13 to paying for compliance. And in fact some of the moneys

14 have restrictions on that. You have to do things earlier

15 than required in order to get access to the money. And

16 that's true in the Carl Moyer and on the loan program as

17 well. And those are statutory restrictions.

18 So we don't have flexibility just to pay for

19 compliance. And if we did, it would be a relatively small

20 fraction.

21 So what we tried to do is focus the money on

22 those that need it the most and those that can step

23 forward and do something early right now.

24 But if it's the Board's desire to make changes,

25 for example, give more consideration to people in rural

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345240

1 areas that have to put filters on or give consideration to

2 this argument about giving consideration to dump trucks

3 because they have so much difficulties in complying in the

4 special vehicles, et cetera, some of the things can be

5 done through the guidelines we'll be bringing to you in

6 the spring, the Prop 1B -- that's not a dump truck one --

7 but for port goods hauling and for Carl Moyer and the loan

8 program. But it's got these other -- there's some

9 restrictions we can't deal with.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, also your assessment

11 of the cost of this rule I think is correctly based on

12 compliance, meaning now through 2014.

13 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Well

14 actually now through 2023. But it is front loaded and of

15 the cost -- a lot of the costs are going to occur by 2014.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: But suppose we decided we

17 want to spend the entire in 2009 or by the end of 2010.

18 We just decided that's the best way to do it is to

19 jump-start the program, get the biggest bang for the buck,

20 the oldest trucks off the road earliest and everything

21 with a filter on it and go for broke. Could we do that?

22 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Well, I

23 think we're limited to the amount of money per year we

24 get. So the Carl Moyer Programs are you spend the money

25 you get each year.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345241

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So you're thinking just --

2 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: That

3 would happen. But there would be money for every year

4 until 2014 or '15 when that program ends.

5 The 1B money is coming in pretty much over a

6 four-year period. We're in year two now. Front-end

7 oriented.

8 And the loan program is a one shot deal right

9 now. Although we have the ability to each year to take

10 some of the 118 moneys that are providing the loan

11 guarantee and dedicate that to loans. Like the first

12 year, we dedicated all of it to loans.

13 But so we are kind of front-end spending. But we

14 keep getting installment payments from the government that

15 each year. I don't know any way that we can -- no way we

16 can pull that forward and ask for twice as much this year

17 and not any next year.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: The Legislature would have

19 to agree.

20 BOARD MEMBER BERG: And the Carl Moyer covers

21 other things other than trucks as well. So it's not

22 100 percent.

23 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: The 140

24 million wouldn't go all to trucks. It pays for some other

25 early actions as well and for areas that we don't regulate

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345242

1 as thoroughly, like ships and locomotives and things like

2 that.

3 BOARD MEMBER BERG: So kind of, you know, I kind

4 of feel like this is a discussion with my teenagers. One

5 dollar gets spent ten times. And so I can't quite get a

6 handle on exactly how much we're talking about and how

7 much of the problem we're going to be able to address.

8 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: I think

9 the staff had a realistic expectation that we were never

10 going to be able to pay for compliance. It was simply the

11 moneys were not there for that.

12 We are quite amazed we were able to come up with

13 a billion dollars of various types of financial

14 instruments. If you look at it that way, it's been a

15 great success compared to what we had with the off-road

16 rule where we just had a little bit of Carl Moyer money.

17 On the other hand, if you look at it how do we -- it would

18 be nice if we could pay for all of it, we are obviously

19 restricted from doing that with the moneys we do have.

20 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I'm sorry, Chairwoman. That

21 comes full circle to both Ron Roberts and Dr. Balmes and

22 several of us here is that we're in a situation where the

23 economy is down. Those $800 payments outside of loan

24 programs and down payments through the grants and

25 incentive money, how are these people going to comply with

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345243

1 the rule? And we kind of come full circle again.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, I think the concept

3 here is that we phased in the requirements for compliance

4 over a period of time as well. So we're not asking

5 everybody to be complying this year or next year. And so

6 we're counting on the fact there's some time to build up

7 both the fund and the inventory of trucks that are in

8 compliance and that we will be in a position to get a

9 better economy working in our favor.

10 But there's also some opportunities. And this is

11 where I know Dr. Telles has had some thoughts. And I

12 think one or two of the people who testified had some

13 thoughts about ideas about ways that you could fund

14 compliance with this rule, given the public health

15 importance of the rule.

16 So would you care to discuss this?

17 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Well, it's not my original

18 idea. It came from the great county of Mendocino. When

19 we were talking to a group from Mendocino, one of the

20 fellows there suggested -- I hate to use the tax word --

21 but a tax on diesel fuel could generate a lot of revenue.

22 And I kind of did a little figuring.

23 If we estimate there's 17 billion vehicle miles

24 traveled and six miles per gallon, to get to $5.5 billion,

25 it's 20 cents on diesel per ten years. Just having such a

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345244

1 small tax. If you want a billion dollars, it's four cents

2 per gallon. I mean, there's ways to do that.

3 Now that obviously takes legislative action. But

4 if you look at this, in our area our region if you believe

5 the Jane Hall report I think for the total savings of the

6 state, it's like 29 billion. And in our region, it's six

7 billion.

8 The only problem with those savings is nobody is

9 coming up front and saying we're going to save money so

10 we're going to give the truckers $5 billion to take care

11 of this. It's a societal saving. And I would think this

12 would be one way to generate some money slowly, somewhat

13 slowly. But some funds that we can help mitigate some of

14 the cost of the this.

15 I don't know if that's well received with the

16 trucking community. Obviously, it's pay as you go. And

17 with all the considerations that the high haulers will be

18 paying more than the low haulers, but it's just an idea to

19 think about.

20 I think if we get to the point where we don't

21 have enough funds to do this, I would encourage the

22 environmental health community and the trucking community

23 to get together and walk across the park and start asking

24 for some help in that way.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, I think we're kind of

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345245

1 at a point where we have to begin to make some decisions.

2 And I think the main message I think -- I'm sorry. Excuse

3 me. I didn't -- go ahead.

4 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: The discussion about the

5 greenhouse gas rules as part of it. There was the slide

6 that was put up about the SmartWays Program. So I did

7 want to just kind of close that discussion and see if

8 there might be a small change made.

9 The issue was raised about the lack of scientific

10 credibility or measurement with the cabs part of the

11 SmartWays Program. I guess we're reassured that there's

12 at least some amount of measurement going on with the side

13 with the fairings and the skirts, but not with the cabs.

14 So in the spirit of good government regulation

15 grounded in science, I was wondering if how we might

16 handle it in such a way that we postpone or put in pending

17 form the cabs part of that regulation until we have a

18 better reassurance -- reassurance or establishment of

19 better measurement protocol by EPA that will be used for

20 the SmartWay Program for cabs.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Actually, we haven't talked

22 about the GHG rule at all. We probably should. Can we do

23 that separately? I mean, we do have to talk about it.

24 But -- well, we can do it now.

25 I had some concerns about things that were not in

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345246

1 the rule that were raised by Mr. Anair that suggested that

2 you know in a way the bite we're taking may not be nearly

3 as ambitious as it could be if we're really trying to get

4 GHG savings. And they look very cost effective, although

5 again there's money to be spent.

6 But I'd like to hear staff's comments on whether

7 they want to make any modifications, because they didn't

8 raise that at all.

9 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: I think

10 our first recommendation in those slides -- go back to the

11 very first one -- was to track what EPA is doing. We went

12 and talked to EPA last night to make sure we understood

13 what they are up to. And they are trying to come up with

14 a more rigorous SAE-like procedure for the cabs. And I

15 asked will you have it done by the end of '09, which would

16 give time -- because you don't want to start the

17 compliance until into 2010. And the answer was that's

18 their expectation, but no guarantee. So that created in

19 our mind a good way of doing that would be --

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Couldn't caveat it it

21 wouldn't take effect unless there was an SAE or equivalent

22 standard?

23 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: That we

24 could look at that and come back to the Board with what we

25 thought the solution would be to the situation.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345247

1 The possible solutions would be EPA comes up with

2 a procedure and everything is okay. It's now on the same

3 degree of rigor as the trailer components.

4 Or it could be they didn't get it done. And

5 perhaps it's only a procedural thing. And maybe we could

6 adopt it in some way.

7 Or there's just a bunch more work to be done.

8 And at that point maybe it suggests that we defer or delay

9 that provision.

10 And we could also probably have a better

11 assessment at that time for you what exactly does the

12 qualitative procedure mean. I don't think it means that

13 you're going to get a tractor that doesn't improve

14 greenhouse gases. What it means is that between the

15 various manufacturers maybe not a rigorous comparison from

16 one manufacture to the other. You might buy a SmartWay

17 from one manufacturer that isn't a whole bunch better than

18 a SmartWay from another manufacturer. That could happen

19 under -- because the way they structure it is compared to

20 the other equipment of a manufacturer.

21 But the more rigorous proposal would take care of

22 that. I think we're on track to do that within a year.

23 So it would be our recommendation that if you're

24 going to go ahead and adopt this rule, we adopt it and

25 come back and make a mid-course correction if necessary at

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345248

1 the end of next year before people have to get into the

2 point of actually buying any equipment.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, I think the Board

4 would feel more comfortable if we, in addition to asking

5 for a report back, made it clear that we don't intend to

6 impose that piece of it, unless there's a procedure that

7 staff is willing to certify. And in fact is of the same

8 caliber as the other tests. That's not worded as artfully

9 as it could be, but I think you could turn it into a

10 resolution.

11 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Could I make a broader

12 response to what you were saying earlier. I'm a strong

13 proponent of aggressive policy on greenhouse gas. But you

14 know, this heavy-duty area makes me very nervous. We're

15 moving on this as an early action item, but in truth

16 there's not much good data. We're doing it in a very

17 piecemeal prescriptive way. And you know I always like to

18 see more of a performance-based approach to it.

19 And EPA is -- the latest energy legislation told

20 them they should start moving forward towards regulating

21 heavy-duty vehicles in terms of fuel economy and

22 emissions. And in hopefully with the new administration

23 that actually will happen.

24 And so somehow I think we need to be working more

25 closely with EPA on this overall issue. I guess I'm going

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345249

1 to be a little conservative in terms of how I respond to

2 the UCS proposal in saying, yes, we want to be very

3 aggressive, but we want to be do it in a more robust way.

4 So I usually wouldn't propose this, but I say

5 let's go slow on this one in terms of any further action

6 with the idea that eventually we will get a very strong

7 program and hopefully a national program that we can work

8 with.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: But in terms of the down

10 payment that was proposed when we adopted the Discrete

11 Early Actions, you're comfortable this one is good enough

12 to move forward on?

13 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: With the caveat about the

14 caps.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: That's helpful. Thank you.

16 Okay. Back to the truck rule.

17 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Chairman Nichols.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I was just recognizing Ms.

19 D'Adamo.

20 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I'm so sorry.

21 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I have a couple of just

22 minor items, hopefully minor. I like the suggestion that

23 Granite Construction has regarding a courtesy inspection

24 program. Seems to be a lot of confusion out there.

25 The truck industry is subject to a number of

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345250

1 different regulations. And I'd like staff to -- I don't

2 know if it could be included in this regulation or if

3 staff could bring a program back to us at a later time.

4 And then I also --

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I agree with that one, by

6 the way. I would second that.

7 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: I would third it.

8 Especially when an employer says they like the Cal/OSHA

9 program. We want to see it replicated.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We want to know how that

11 worked.

12 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: So there's nodding heads

13 on that one. Good.

14 On enforcement, I don't believe staff talked much

15 about it. But what can we do -- there's a lot of people

16 that are going to go the extra mile and spend a lot of

17 money on this regulation. And enforcement is just

18 crucial.

19 The concern I had I think somebody talked about

20 the idling regulations and had some criticism about lack

21 of enforcement. So, of course, for those that are

22 complying, it's frustrating when you hear about someone

23 that's not complying. And idling is a small action in

24 terms of compliance. This rule is going to be huge in

25 terms of compliance.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345251

1 So what can we do to make sure it's being

2 properly enforced in particular with the trucks coming

3 from out of state?

4 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Well, I

5 think we're actually in better shape on this rule relative

6 to the other rules. For example, idling which sound

7 simple means you have to go out and find the person that's

8 idling and time it. And in some cases for the sleeper

9 rule, that means someone has to prowl around at 3:00 in

10 the morning at a truck stop. That's difficult.

11 But we do have an enforcement program now, and

12 we've had one for more than ten years now for smoke

13 inspections, which are done at the weigh stations coming

14 into California. That deals with primarily out-of-state

15 trucks.

16 And then we also do targeted inspections like at

17 ports and places where there's a high density of trucks.

18 So when they do those inspections, they can

19 either do inspections for this rule or for all of the

20 rules at the same time.

21 So this is a matter of sort of incrementing the

22 enforcement on the on-road truck where in those other

23 areas we had to start a new enforcement program and do it

24 differently than we are doing now. So I think we're

25 pretty good shape to be able to --

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345252

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Are we not considering a

2 report to the Legislature at our next Board meeting, which

3 we would be considered this time if we had enough time,

4 that deals with the enforcement of all of our diesel

5 rules? It's an AB 233 report. And they've asked us for

6 very specific detail, not only about the mechanisms, but

7 about what kinds of equipment and what personnel we need

8 to do that.

9 So although I doubt this is a year where we're

10 going to be asking for or receiving lots of additional

11 resources, the Legislature has always focused on this

12 enforcement issue as one area where they were willing to

13 look at giving us more resources even in bad budget times.

14 CHIEF COUNSEL PETER: With respect to the Bay

15 Area Enforcement, which was the person that testified, the

16 Bay Area Air Quality Management District has expressed

17 extreme interest in stepping up on their idling

18 enforcement. So our enforcement division has been working

19 with them. And they actually are doing it on their own

20 nickel. And we're providing them training. And they are

21 going to step up very aggressively on idling in the Bay

22 Area.

23 And with respect to San Joaquin, they also wanted

24 to do it so we have a pilot program with respect to that

25 on enforcement where we are actually paying them for their

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345253

1 inspector's time, which is a cost effective way of doing

2 it. That will be dealt with. It's mentioned in the AB

3 233 report you'll hear.

4 I just wanted to address that. Because I agree

5 the idling is more difficult, but we're starting to get

6 our arms around it.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: To the extent there is

8 competition in the industry, someone who isn't complying

9 has a competitive advantage over someone who is paid and

10 is complying.

11 So I think it's really important that we use all

12 of the mechanisms that we have available to us which do

13 include civil penalties and pretty serious litigation if

14 we want to do that.

15 CHIEF COUNSEL PETER: Right. We could take

16 affirmative action against firms.

17 But what is being referred to today was the

18 specific people idling in neighborhoods. And once again,

19 that's where we are coming up with a program where we're

20 utilizing the local air districts to assist us, and

21 they're very interested in doing that.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I was referring back to the

23 Granite Construction testimony.

24 CHIEF COUNSEL PETER: You're right. Even playing

25 field is critical.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345254

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: But you're right. We did

2 hear from some very concerned citizens as well.

3 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Since we're talking about

4 enforcement, one of the testifiers mentioned that the

5 companies that would be hiring fleets will be responsible

6 for making sure that fleet is compliant.

7 What would the mechanism be that they would be

8 able to do that? And what would the penalty be if they

9 don't do that?

10 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I think's on the SmartWay.

11 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: No. It's page 33.

12 BOARD MEMBER BERG: On the on-road?

13 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Yeah. It's page 33,

14 Section B, how does the regulation apply to motor

15 carriers, brokers, and dispatchers?

16 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

17 WHITE: Let me explain that a little bit more.

18 One of the things we intend to do on that is as

19 fleets report to us, they're reporting operating numbers

20 they commonly have, whether their motor carrier permit

21 number, their number from the Public Utilities Commission,

22 some other operating permit that they received that allows

23 them to legally be in commercial business in the state.

24 So we'll collecting that information as part of

25 the reporting requirements. And this is actually

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345255

1 something that we developed in conjunction with the

2 industry as a way to improve the enforceability of the

3 regulation.

4 What we will do is collect that information and

5 make that available on-line. So somebody can go and look

6 to see whether or not a fleet they want to hire is

7 reported to be in compliance with the regulation. And

8 that's as far as it's going to go. Check on a web page,

9 make sure the fleet they're hiring has been reported as

10 compliant. If they are, that hiring company has no

11 further obligation.

12 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: They don't have to go out

13 and inspect the truck?

14 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

15 WHITE: No, they do not. Simply a check.

16 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: That's

17 true on the SmartWay. It's the same way. I think that

18 was not clear yesterday from the discussion. But that's

19 the way it would work.

20 BOARD MEMBER BERG: On the off-road rule, we were

21 going to actually issue compliant cards or some kind of

22 compliant document saying that a company was in compliance

23 with the off-road. Almost like your insurance card. And

24 so --

25 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345256

1 WHITE: The intent is a similar approach with this.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay.

3 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I just had a couple other --

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Sure.

5 BOARD MEMBER BERG: One comment was made on --

6 although it doesn't seem to be a big issue over the next

7 couple of years. Never the less, adding to fleets. Why

8 can't we report addition to fleets on an annual basis

9 rather than every 30 days to the Executive Officer?

10 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

11 WHITE: Vehicles won't to be reported every 30 days. The

12 reporting requirements is just once a year.

13 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Okay. Great.

14 And then retrofit performance standards, I think

15 it's critical that we have information that truly explains

16 performance standards to duty cycles so that operators can

17 make good decisions as to whether to retrofit an existing

18 vehicle or to buy a new/used vehicle and retrofit that,

19 because that will give them the duty cycle.

20 And so I don't know if this is an outreach issue.

21 But I'd really like you to take note of that. And I think

22 it's a critical area. Because otherwise, we're going to

23 hear horror stories about how things don't work.

24 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

25 WHITE: I think we can certainly fold this into our

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345257

1 planned implementation efforts for the rule.

2 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: If you

3 were referring particularly to the retrofit devices like

4 filters, not the SmartWay stuff --

5 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Yeah. Specifically.

6 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: We do

7 have that. Each EO is on our website. So it explains

8 exactly what the device was certified to, the percentage

9 reduction, the level, and also says what engine families

10 it is applicable to. And what temperature requirements is

11 needed from the exhaust when you monitor that to make sure

12 it works. So that is on the website now. I think

13 everybody knows how to access that. But we're going to

14 try to make it more friendly in the future I think as

15 well.

16 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I understand that. But I

17 think to a layperson that is not a mechanic to be able to

18 go in and look at, is that going to give me eight hours,

19 or am I going to need to regenerate after four hours? Am

20 I going to need two filters because my engine runs hot?

21 So those are the types of things.

22 I think we're simplifying it a bit, which is

23 leading people to believe that they go and buy a filter

24 for their particular vehicle because it's on there that

25 they're going to get the duty cycle that they're currently

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345258

1 running. And I think that's of issue.

2 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We can make sure

3 that the information that's available has that added so

4 everyone understands how to calculate the use of a

5 particular device within their own business operation in

6 simple to understand terms.

7 BOARD MEMBER BERG: And then finally, on the

8 economic update, I think if we were to treat the economic

9 update like we did the technology update for the off-road

10 rule, so we truly came back with not only economic data

11 but anecdotal data.

12 So I would like to suggest that we have some

13 workshops where we truly hear from people that are

14 applying to the various programs that we have and make

15 sure that we're getting that money available to them and

16 that we know how many are applying and how many are we

17 being able to service. And then also hearing other

18 financial impact, just like we would on the technology

19 review that we're going to get in January. So when you

20 come back to us a year from now that it really would be a

21 full report both data wise and anecdotally wise what's the

22 reality of what's going on on the ground.

23 And then finally, I would like to see in the

24 attainment areas, I do believe that both PM and NOx is

25 very important. But because it's in attainment areas, I

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345259

1 believe we can get both through allowing them to focus on

2 the NOx. Let them go through and not have -- be hit twice

3 for cost.

4 So it would be my desire to see that in

5 attainment areas that we would allow the individuals to be

6 under the NOx rule, which at the end of the day will also

7 take care of the PM once they all get new trucks.

8 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

9 WHITE: Just to clarify, Board Member Berg. The

10 suggestion is is that early PM requirements would be

11 harmonized with the existing NOx turnover date?

12 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Correct. Only in attainment

13 areas.

14 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

15 WHITE: Only in attainment areas. Okay.

16 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Madam Chair, could the

17 staff put up their recommendations on the diesel items?

18 I've forgotten what slide number that was. Your suggested

19 revisions.

20 While they're putting that up, maybe to focus --

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I agree. I was waiting for

22 someone to do it.

23 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: I don't know that I can do

24 all of it.

25 But it would seem to me that we might move

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345260

1 forward by adopting those that the staff has recommended,

2 along with the last that Member Berg suggested with others

3 of the attainment area -- and I'm trying to think if there

4 are -- the enforcement -- there's some enforcement --

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Direction.

6 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Direction and financial

7 direction, financial assistance direction.

8 Are we missing anything else?

9 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Courtesy inspection

10 program.

11 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Courtesy inspection.

12 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Was there anything on the

13 school bus?

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I wasn't --

15 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: You didn't make

16 any --

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I didn't make any request,

18 because I couldn't come up with a good answer.

19 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Could we add the school bus

20 to the economic, specifically have an area -- a focus on a

21 school bus within the economic review so that we can

22 monitor that very carefully?

23 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Yeah.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yeah. I have a broader

25 concern. I don't exactly understand which districts

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345261

1 operate their own buses, which of them rent out to other

2 contracts. Whether the contract buses, because they're

3 operated by private fleet owners, are cleaner or not. You

4 know, these are things that you sort of would like to know

5 before deciding how to go about tailoring a regulation. I

6 don't feel that we've really ever looked at that.

7 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Could we ask for that

8 information to come back in a year?

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think we should. Good

10 plan.

11 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: That would be included,

12 but I would like to move forward on this.

13 And I move that -- recognizing that I know our

14 legal counsel is going to want us to do ex partes at some

15 point in time.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Before we actually vote.

17 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: I'd like to put that in

18 the form of a motion of the adoption with the suggestions

19 that staff has made, plus the others that we just

20 enumerated.

21 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I'll second that motion.

22 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

23 WHITE: Chairman Nichols, we need two small clarifications

24 before.

25 We need a clarification as to whether or not the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345262

1 Board is leaving out the requirements for the tires on the

2 tractors for the SmartWay proposal in terms of if they are

3 including or not including the tractors as part of that

4 proposal, whether the tire requirements for the tractors

5 are also to be delayed. And also we've identified a need

6 to clarify the provisions in the port truck rule that are

7 going to be new. We would like to ability to go back and

8 do that as well.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Dr. Sperling.

10 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: I'm not

11 clear on the tractor, what exactly you were saying.

12 I thought I heard Dr. Sperling say that he wanted

13 just a recognition that if this would be adopted. But if

14 we don't get procedures and stuff taken care of, we would

15 be back to change it. Something more positive, more

16 definitive like that.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Chairman Nichols modified

18 that to say something to the effect that we would make it

19 clear we're not going to implement it or enforce it until

20 and unless we get assurance that, you know, the

21 measurement protocol are developed to our satisfaction.

22 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Right.

23 But does that mean not adopt it now or does that mean --

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: No. We're going to move on

25 this. We don't --

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1 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Become

2 regulation with a caveat on it --

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes. I think so. It's got

4 a bomb attached to it that will go off unless you guys

5 certify it's happened.

6 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: I think

7 the tires is perhaps different, because the tires does

8 have the SAE procedures and well established for both the

9 trailers. If you wanted to make it clear the tires are at

10 least a go, that would be a separate action from --

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes. We weren't

12 questioning the tire process.

13 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Madam Chair, just a

14 procedural question. We're bouncing back between the

15 two --

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We're going to vote

17 separately on the two rules. But we are giving some

18 general instructions to the staff here. Right.

19 Mayor Loveridge.

20 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: I just want to make a

21 point of order on the ex parte.

22 We listened to some 300 people. And everybody

23 that we talked to has been heard. There's no secret

24 disclosures that are going to come out from our ex part.

25 I guess I would ask why, given the extraordinary

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345264

1 testimony of so many people, why do we need to go through

2 that? I don't mind going through it.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I understand. Actually, I

4 believe that this Board exceeds any legal requirements on

5 us in terms of our custom of disclosing who we've talked

6 to.

7 If we were going to go through them, I would not

8 list every individual that was included in every meeting.

9 I would list three different meetings or conference calls

10 that I participated in. And I'm not sure that that -- I

11 agree with anyone would know more than they know based on

12 what we've heard. But that's sort of the point is unless

13 you learn something from the ex parte -- you don't have to

14 disclose it at all, unless you gained information as a

15 result of that meeting that you wouldn't get through the

16 open meeting.

17 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: If there are people that

18 gained something from an ex parte meeting other than what

19 they received from the multiple testimonies and staff,

20 please --

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Would they please disclose

22 it?

23 I think that's fine, unless I'm advised

24 otherwise. We don't have to go through and read them. I

25 think we all were contacted numerous times by groups. And

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345265

1 certainly I talked to representatives of the health and

2 environmental communities and talked to representatives of

3 the DTCC group who were very impressive, by the way, I

4 would say. In terms of any specific information, it

5 wasn't different than what we heard. But just as far as

6 the level of effort and thought and concern they put into

7 this effort, I have to say it was really extraordinary.

8 And I think we benefited and the staff benefited a lot

9 from it.

10 And then I also met with representatives of the

11 agricultural industry. And I would say I probably was

12 influenced by their comments in that meeting to a degree

13 that wouldn't have been reflected by this testimony here,

14 because I had a lot of doubts about the staff proposal in

15 this area. I tend to be somewhat resistant to carving out

16 specific industries for specific kinds of treatment.

17 And I really needed a better explanation of why

18 the staff felt that it was legitimate to sacrifice in

19 effect some reductions here for this particular group.

20 And I think that their explanation convinced me that they

21 were not just responding to a perceived interest group or

22 political pressure, but that they felt that there were

23 unique circumstances about the vehicles and the way they

24 were operated that made a difference in terms of whether

25 you could actually make the rule work for those vehicles

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345266

1 in the same way it works for others. So I am not pursuing

2 any changes in that particular program.

3 Anybody else want to disclose any other meetings

4 they had? Okay.

5 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We'd like to

6 clarify what the Board is proposing.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I believe that there is a

8 motions on the floor to adopt the resolution and the staff

9 proposal with modifications that are the ones that you've

10 put up on the board, plus the additional things that were

11 read.

12 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: There's some directives to

13 you.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Some direction coming from

15 the --

16 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: On the attainment

17 delay for PM retrofits.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Sorry. I don't understand.

19 Maybe I need clarification.

20 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: What we

21 heard the discussion was in attainment areas for vehicles

22 used exclusively in attainment areas, take the PM

23 requirement and push it back to whenever the turnover

24 requirement is, which in many cases would be I guess 2021

25 or something like that. So the trucks would not to have

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345267

1 filters until 2021 and be a 2010 or newer vehicle at that

2 time.

3 So there would be no retrofitting of those

4 vehicles. And that would apply to all types of vehicles

5 in attainment areas used exclusively in attainment areas.

6 Is that -- we weren't clear if that was what the proposal

7 is or not.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: It seems a little out -- I

9 wasn't either. And that I agree seems a little bit more

10 expansive.

11 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: I don't know -- certainly

12 it's very critical that they be functioning -- that they

13 have to be certified by the owner that that they're going

14 to only travel in the attainment area.

15 Now, you could put some more low mileage on it,

16 but I don't think that's reasonable.

17 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: I think

18 the mileage didn't work. At least in the logging truck

19 example it was 50,00 miles and the other low exemption are

20 7500 or 15,000 or something like that.

21 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: I don't know.

22 Dr. Balmes, did you have any thoughts on that? I

23 don't know how you could differentiate.

24 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: I didn't have any specific

25 thoughts. I was throwing that out as a concept. If staff

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345268

1 says we'd have trouble meeting the SIP requirements by

2 this then --

3 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: No. Because they're in

4 attainment areas.

5 BOARD MEMBER BERG: They have to follow the NOx

6 turnover anyway. So they're going to have to go by one of

7 the three schedules, either the BACT. They're going to

8 have to do fleet averaging. Whatever the NOx turnover is

9 the schedule that they'll be following.

10 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

11 WHITE: Actually, let me clarify. For vehicles that are

12 operated exclusively in those areas, they're exempt from

13 the NOx requirements until 2021. So they won't -- there

14 is no requirement that they turn over in the intervening

15 years between now and then.

16 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: So the localized

17 impact --

18 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: That's more expansive.

19 BOARD MEMBER BERG: That's more expansive than I

20 was too. But I would like to do some sort of

21 harmonization so they didn't have twice the cost because

22 they're in attainment areas. And I think that we could do

23 something.

24 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Do you have a suggestion,

25 staff, where we might -- you know, we're trying to be

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345269

1 helpful. Okay. You know we're going.

2 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: I

3 understand.

4 I think the difficulty and why we asked the

5 question is because in recognition they're already in

6 attainment areas, we already pushed off the turnover

7 requirement, which means it will be a 2010 engine until

8 2021. At that time, they will automatically have a filter

9 and the low NOx.

10 So the increment that we would be addressing is

11 do they have to do any retrofit or get a vehicle that's

12 not a 2010 but has a filter on it prior to that date,

13 which then gets to Ms. Berg's concern that there would be

14 two things happening, which is what typically is going to

15 happen to many other fleets. To do a retrofit at one time

16 and replace the vehicle later.

17 The only structure we have is to wait until 2021

18 and pull that date forward in order to delay the date of

19 the filter so they once again coincided. So we'd have to

20 come up with a much more elaborate approach or just say

21 they don't have to do anything until 2021.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think what really started

23 all of this was concern about logging trucks, right. I

24 mean, that was where I think Mayor Loveridge was initially

25 concerned was and also Dr. Balmes, why we were

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345270

1 discriminating in one area.

2 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: The

3 problem was the logging trucks in the analogy to ag just

4 don't work. Because as we heard, most of the logging

5 trucks are more like 50,000 miles a year. And the ag

6 exemptions we talked were 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 max

7 depending on calendar year.

8 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: They're very short hall.

9 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: For

10 everybody else, it's 7500 miles. So neither of those come

11 close to addressing logging, which is why logging is what

12 the way we proposed it. It wasn't an analogue to the way

13 we treated agriculture. We call them an agriculture

14 vehicle, but a high mileage agriculture vehicle has to

15 comply, too. They wouldn't be any special consideration.

16 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Part of this is there is

17 an absence of numbers and analysis and what that means.

18 Do you have any offhand surmises?

19 DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER TERRY: I was just going

20 to offer, because we're talking about federal

21 non-attainment areas, that does include some areas that

22 have urbanized areas within them. And I think that's the

23 analysis that's missing, as opposed to more remote

24 counties with very few high-volume traffic areas and the

25 exposure issue. We haven't done that analysis.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345271

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We're trying to look at

2 risk in a world that doesn't allow us unfortunately the

3 data to do the risk assessment.

4 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: But you also have to

5 remember logging trucks operate -- they don't operate a

6 year long season. Theirs is a contracted season most

7 often. I mean, you know, there may be some areas that are

8 not. But as it was explained to me, they operate only

9 when the weather permits. And that is not 12 months a

10 year. So you have some limitations there.

11 DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER TERRY: I guess what I

12 was interpreting was this discussion to include all types

13 of captive fleets that operated only within the

14 non-attainment area. And that could be for example --

15 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: You mean attainment.

16 DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER TERRY: Yes. So, for

17 example, those could be fleets that operate in Santa

18 Barbara County. And what we would be forgoing is

19 particulate traps and diesel risk reduction. That's the

20 issue here.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Santa Barbara people have

22 not been heard on this issue either. And I think they

23 might well object frankly if they knew this was under

24 consideration. It's going pretty far beyond.

25 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Maybe it would be best

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345272

1 just to limit it to logging trucks that we've discussed

2 and have some knowledge about. I don't want to open up

3 something.

4 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I don't want to open up a can

5 of worms either, especially since Mendocino supervisors

6 came in with a resolution. And they've obviously

7 discussed this. Maybe it is a logging issue. Would the

8 Board be comfortable with that?

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: How about if we don't fix

10 it for now. I think what I would be more comfortable with

11 is not fixing it at this time until we've had a chance to

12 send staff back to think about some more. I think we

13 could ask for a report back in January, because we'll be

14 dealing with diesel issues again.

15 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We can look at it

16 and come back to the Board with a --

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: With some options that

18 might be available. I think --

19 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I would be comfortable with

20 that as well. Absolutely. That we leave it so that you

21 come back and we can discuss it again.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We've gotten to that point

23 in the meeting where we're about to fall off into some

24 other area. So let's bring it back, as Ms. Riordan

25 suggested earlier.

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1 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Madam Chair, if I might,

2 just as the maker of the motion. We need to acknowledge

3 the date again with the staff proposed -- I don't know

4 that your amendments but --

5 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: 15 day changes.

6 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: To the July 1st, 2008, for

7 the --

8 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We could quickly

9 run through those.

10 Eric, why don't you do that?

11 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

12 WHITE: Okay. We have on the list a courtesy inspection

13 program for fleets to help them determine compliance.

14 We have return to the Board, update to the Board

15 by the end of 2009 with workshops prior to that to discuss

16 funding and how many fleets are taken advantage of that.

17 The state of the economy as well as the impacts

18 that is having on emissions.

19 And also update on school buses.

20 We also have a direction to go back and look

21 at -- I'm unclear whether it's the PM requirements in

22 rural attainment areas as it relates just to logging or to

23 all vehicles.

24 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We'll look at both.

25 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Both.

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1 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

2 WHITE: I also have the two proposed staff suggestions to

3 begin for early retirement credit as of July 1st, 2008.

4 Extend the small fleet provisions by one year to

5 January 1st, 2014, and subsequently extend the subsequent

6 dates as well.

7 And I believe as well as all the other 15-day

8 changes that we had proposed yesterday.

9 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Including

10 conforming the port truck rule.

11 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRATEGIES BRANCH CHIEF

12 WHITE: Including conforming the port truck rule.

13 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Ms. Berg asked that

14 we simplify or show duty cycle information on the website

15 about the equipment.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay.

17 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Before we leave this, one

18 of the important things here is monitoring of the economic

19 impact.

20 And my question to staff and Board is if we

21 monitor it and we find out there's severe economic impact,

22 what's the plan?

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I don't think we're going

24 to be in a position to decide today what we would do,

25 because the possibilities really range from no change to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345275

1 more horrible than we can currently imagine, to things are

2 actually coming along better and we don't have to worry

3 about it.

4 And I think if the option is more horrible than

5 we can currently imagine, there's a lot of other things

6 that will be on the table at that point in terms of the

7 program, including, you know, whether the Air Resources

8 Board will be operating at its usual level. Seriously.

9 I'm not being factitious. There are some projections

10 about the state of the economy that could be that grim as

11 far as people being furloughed and literally not around to

12 do the analysis we're talking about. So I don't believe

13 that's what's likely to happen in all honesty.

14 But I do think that if we were in a position

15 where we saw that not only were we losing businesses and

16 jobs, but we were also seeing more of a slide even in the

17 economy as a result of not having trucks around, we would

18 also have to look at the affect that was having on

19 emissions and tell the public and the EPA we were going to

20 be -- we weren't going to be proceeding. But I don't

21 think we -- I don't think it's a good idea to start

22 playing out these scenarios right now.

23 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: I kind of disagree.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You're allowed to do that.

25 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: The reason why I asked my

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345276

1 question the other day about what's the impact if someone

2 loses their job on this, because it's a health question.

3 That's someone that a physician understands.

4 The health part of that is, having taken care of

5 cardiovascular patients for the last 30 years, there's

6 almost no bigger risk factor than something losing their

7 job. I mean, I see this on a daily basis. And we're

8 talking about balancing health effects here. And when a

9 person loses their job, their health just falls apart.

10 So to me it's a huge health question. And the

11 reason to do this is to improve the health of the people

12 of the state of California, not to make it worse.

13 And in the economic impact question I keep on

14 asking is if we run up against truckers that are going to

15 lose their source of income, their livelihood, their

16 equity, their retirement plan, all those things that go

17 along that puts a huge stress on that population, that

18 population when you count the numbers here is a million

19 people. I don't think there's any bigger industry in

20 California that hires a million people. And I don't think

21 there is a bigger economy that has or any economy that has

22 a million trucks, you know. A truck for every 30 people.

23 And it's huge.

24 And I would like some kind of -- to seek some

25 kind of off ramp or some kind of protection for the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345277

1 trucking group that -- you know, we've heard the dump

2 truck people and all this that are going to potentially be

3 the biggest jeopardy and at risk of losing everything. I

4 don't think the State of California wants to put people

5 out of work. I personally wouldn't want to do that just

6 from the health point of view of it.

7 I know this is the difficult thing we're dealing

8 with here, but I think we have to address.

9 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Madam Chair, may I?

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Please.

11 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I just think that I'd like

12 to go back to your comment in opening. And I don't think

13 that if we look at either extreme it's going to be a

14 challenge for us.

15 We're all in favor of clean air, and we don't

16 want to put anybody out of work.

17 I would just suggest that we consider the

18 longstanding actions that this Board has taken. I've been

19 on the Board long enough to know that when we adopt a

20 rule, to a certain extent, it's a leap of faith. Staff

21 has been terrific in bringing rules back to us when we

22 have misstepped. And I think that with the direction that

23 staff is getting in coming back to us, not just on the

24 economic impact, but in particular on that financing

25 package which is really the lynch pin of what's going to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345278

1 enable us to pull this off. So more regular reports on

2 the financing package.

3 And I truly believe that if we have misstepped,

4 staff is going to come back to us mighty quick. Because

5 we're going to have to make adjustments and somehow still

6 come into compliance, you know, meeting our SIP

7 obligations.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think I agree with what

9 Ms. D'Adamo said very sincerely. I also think that the

10 honest answer to your question that you asked yesterday --

11 and, you know, I believe you asked it in all sincerity

12 there is no way to know the answer to your question. It

13 is unknowable. All you can do is to look retrospectively

14 at what has happened with rules that we have adopted in

15 the past. And while this one is big and expensive and is

16 being adopted in difficult times, we've never adopted a

17 rule that I'm aware of that didn't have severe opposition

18 from people who did question what the economic impacts of

19 that were going to be.

20 And in looking back at them, again, not to be

21 assume that the past is always prologue, but the reality

22 has been that the cost of compliance has turned out to

23 have been less than we estimated, because we always are

24 going on data that is given to us by sources. And that

25 the methods of compliance turned out to be somewhat

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345279

1 different than we anticipated in the beginning. People

2 found other ways to comply.

3 So I think that it is the difficulty of this work

4 that we do in the air regulatory field we're always

5 betting on what's going to be out there and what the costs

6 are going to be. And when we get close to the brink if

7 we're wrong, we have to change as we're seeing we will.

8 Mayor Loveridge.

9 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Yeah. Just a personal

10 observation. Serving on the South Coast Board is I don't

11 think there is a major rule that we adopted where we

12 haven't heard that it's going to cost jobs. It's going to

13 cost employment, thus we should not do that. That is one

14 of the things that's a part of almost kind of rule and

15 regulation that Air Boards adopt.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All right. I think at this

17 point we probably have to move forward towards a vote on

18 the rule.

19 Do we understand what it is we're voting on? Do

20 you understand what we are voting on?

21 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Yes, we do. Your

22 first vote will be on the truck rule.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We'll do the greenhouse gas

24 rule first I think and then PM and NOx rule.

25 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: For me to feel comfortable,

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345280

1 are you suggesting when we re-look at this, there's ways

2 to modify it in the future?

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Sorry. Yes, of course.

4 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: I was just saying, great.

5 Monitor it.

6 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We'll be reporting

7 back to you with as much information, including the

8 anecdotal information about financing, the compliance

9 rate, what's going on with the economy and --

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: But I hope you could feel

11 empowered -- and maybe this is to follow up on the

12 question I didn't understand Dr. Telles was asking.

13 If there are problems that are beyond what we

14 have assumed today, you will recommend changes to the

15 rule; right?

16 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Yes, we would.

17 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Or we may come to that

18 conclusion yourself.

19 Dr. Telles, we do have a history of modifying and

20 changing. And the biggest one is the zero emission

21 vehicle. Every one of us on the Board at the time that

22 that passed thought there would be some wonderful

23 break-through in a battery and somebody would be, you

24 know, right there with the manufacturers and we would have

25 zero emission vehicles. Didn't happen. And we had to

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345281

1 make a lot of changes. And so we have a history of going

2 back and re-visiting some major, major rules when

3 something does not occur that we had anticipated.

4 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: I'll make just one final

5 comment and then be quiet the rest of the day.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: There won't be much more

7 opportunity.

8 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Because, you know, you and

9 the Mayor have pointed out to me that, you know, making

10 rules are difficult because everybody complains. But I

11 think that this particular rule is uniquely different than

12 all the ones I've participated in in our air pollution

13 control district or watched. And we're dealing with not

14 big corporate entities. We're dealing with 30 percent of

15 this group is small business truck guys who own one truck.

16 And it's entirely different. And we can't say, well, they

17 complain and they do all right anyway. Chevron complains

18 and they do all right. I'm not sure if a trucker who owns

19 a dump truck is going to complain and do okay.

20 I think there's a big personal human difference

21 here that I'm trying to kind of identify and make you all

22 aware of here. I'm sure you've done this long enough

23 you're totally aware of it and you don't need this. But I

24 had to say that.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think you've made the

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345282

1 point well. Thank you. I think that is well said.

2 And I think that's what motivated us to tailor

3 this rule from what was originally presented to

4 specifically single out the smallest truckers for the

5 largest amount of time that with possibly can give and

6 still meet the deadline that we have under the rule as a

7 whole.

8 So I would like to say that I think that was what

9 was behind that proposal was to -- we don't always single

10 out small businesses. In fact, there's a lot of good

11 economic arguments in many industries to not discriminate

12 in favor of the small. Because oftentimes they're also

13 the most polluting in a particular industry. In this

14 instance, I think we've recognize we're dealing a complex

15 economy and that we have to do something directly targeted

16 at small business. And I'm happy that we are at least in

17 a position to grant some unique kind of tailored relief in

18 that area. We hope it's enough. But if it's not, then we

19 will come back and look at it again. Thank you.

20 All right. The secretary will call the roll

21 please on -- sorry. We have a motion and a second.

22 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: I'll second it.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Ms. D'Adamo already

24 seconded the motion. So on the -- let's do the on-road

25 rule first. Okay. The on-road rule.

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1 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Dr. Balmes?

2 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Yes.

3 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. Berg?

4 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Aye.

5 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. D'Adamo?

6 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Aye.

7 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Mayor Loveridge?

8 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Yes.

9 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. Riordan?

10 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Aye.

11 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Professor Sperling?

12 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Yes.

13 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Dr. Telles?

14 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Aye.

15 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Chairman Nichols?

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Aye.

17 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Motion passes eight -zero.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Now we need to deal with

19 the GHG motion.

20 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I make a motion that we

21 adopt Resolution 8-11-4.

22 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Second.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Second.

24 All right. We'll do the roll call again.

25 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Dr. Balmes?

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345284

1 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Aye.

2 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. Berg?

3 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Aye.

4 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. D'Adamo?

5 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Aye.

6 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Mayor Loveridge?

7 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Aye.

8 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. Riordan?

9 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Aye.

10 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Professor Sperling?

11 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Aye, since we're doing

12 ayes now.

13 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Dr. Telles?

14 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Aye.

15 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Chairman Nichols?

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Aye.

17 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Motion passes eight-zero

18 oh.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All right. Thank you all

20 very much. Thank you.

21 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We have one more

22 item, the research proposal on fee bates.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Let's just do it on a -- we

24 don't have to have a presentation. We all received the

25 materials in advance.

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345285

1 BOARD MEMBER BERG: So moved.

2 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Second.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We have a motion from Ms.

4 Berg, a second from Ms. D'Adamo. All in favor say aye.

5 (Ayes)

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Any opposed?

7 Dr. Sperling is recusing himself.

8 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Thank you.

9 (Thereupon the California Air Resources Board

10 adjourned at 4:12 p.m.)

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PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345286

1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

2 I, TIFFANY C. KRAFT, a Certified Shorthand

3 Reporter of the State of California, and Registered

4 Professional Reporter, do hereby certify:

5 That I am a disinterested person herein; that the

6 foregoing hearing was reported in shorthand by me,

7 Tiffany C. Kraft, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of the

8 State of California, and thereafter transcribed into

9 typewriting.

10 I further certify that I am not of counsel or

11 attorney for any of the parties to said hearing nor in any

12 way interested in the outcome of said hearing.

13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

14 this 18th day of December, 2008.

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22 TIFFANY C. KRAFT, CSR, RPR

23 Certified Shorthand Reporter

24 License No. 12277

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PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345