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S. HRG. 112–635

S. 1898 AND H.R. 1560

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

ON

S. 1898, A BILL TO PROVIDE FOR THE CONVEYANCE OF CERTAIN 

PROPERTY FROM THE UNITED STATES TO THE MANIILAQ

ASSOCIATION LOCATED IN KOTZEBUE, ALASKA

H.R. 1560, A BILL TO AMEND THE YSLETA DEL SUR PUEBLO

AND ALABAMA AND COUSHATTA INDIAN TRIBES OF TEXAS

RESTORATION ACT TO ALLOW THE YSLETA DEL SUR PUEBLO 

TRIBE TO DETERMINE BLOOD QUANTUM REQUIREMENTS FOR 

MEMBERSHIP IN THAT TRIBE

MARCH 22, 2012

Printed for the use of the Committee on Indian Affairs

(

(II)

COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii, Chairman 

JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming, Vice Chairman 

DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii 

KENT CONRAD, North Dakota 

TIM JOHNSON, South Dakota 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

JON TESTER, Montana 

TOM UDALL, New Mexico 

AL FRANKEN, Minnesota 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho 

MIKE JOHANNS, Nebraska 

LORETTA A. TUELL, Majority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

DAVID A. MULLON JR., Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

(III)

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on March 22, 2012 ............................................................................ 1

Statement of Senator Akaka ................................................................................... 1

Statement of Senator Murkowski. .......................................................................... 1

Statement of Senator Udall .................................................................................... 9 

WITNESSES

Gillette, Jodi, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs, U.S. Department 

of the Interior ....................................................................................................... 3

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 3

Hansen, Paul, Deputy Administrator, Maniilaq Health Center .......................... 12

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 13

Hisa, Hon. Carlos, Lieutenant Governor, Ysleta Del Sur Pueblo; accompanied 

by Janette Hernandez, Tribal Member .............................................................. 14

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 15

McSwain, Robert, Deputy Director for Management Operations, Indian 

Health Service, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services .................. 4

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 5

(1)

S. 1898 AND H.R. 1560

THURSDAY, MARCH 22, 2012

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:15 p.m. in room 

628, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Daniel K. Akaka,

Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL K. AKAKA,

U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII 

Senator AKAKA. The Committee will come to order. 

Aloha and welcome to all of you here to this hearing. Today, the 

Committee will be considering two pieces of legislation that have 

been referred to this Committee for action. 

The first one that we will be considering is S. 1898, which was 

introduced by my good friend and colleague Senator Murkowski 

and provides for the conveyance of property from the United States 

to the Maniilaq Association in Alaska. The House companion bill, 

H.R. 443, has been passed by the House. 

The second bill we will be considering is H.R. 1560, which 

amends the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo settlement to allow the Tribe to 

determine its own membership requirements. This bill also has 

been passed by the House. 

Today, we will be hearing from the Department of the Interior 

and the Indian Health Service to receive the Administration’s 

views on these bills. We will also hear from the affected Tribes to 

learn how these bills will impact our members back home and, of 

course, are delighted to hear from our member from Alaska. 

I am pleased to hold this hearing so that we can begin the process of moving both bills through the Senate. The record for today’s 

hearing for will remain open for two weeks. So, I encourage any interested parties to submit written testimony for the record. 

And now I would like to call on Senator Murkowski for any opening statement she may have. 

STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,

U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA 

Senator MURKOWSKI. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 

for scheduling this hearing today and for an opportunity to bring 

up a bill that I have introduced, S. 1898. I appreciate the Committee considering this issue before us and thank the Administration witnesses that are here to not only speak to the merits of this 

2

bill, but also thank you for what you do in working with us on the 

issues that affect so many of our Alaska Native constituents, not 

only with the healthcare issues that we deal with but so many of 

the other concerns that we have. I appreciate that. 

The bill that I have introduced, Mr. Chairman, is a critical tool 

that I believe will help improve the delivery of health services to 

the residents of rural northwest Alaska. It is a pretty straightforward approach to assist Maniilaq in expanding and improving 

their current healthcare services. As you know, the House has already passed an equivalent version of the bill. I note that it passed 

by a pretty remarkable margin, 407 to 4. So I do not know what 

the objections of the four were but it is important that it did receive considerable support there. 

I do agree with Congressman Young when he said that this bill 

will do more than just transfer land. He was spot on in pinpointing 

the significance of this bill as one that will allow Maniilaq the opportunity to expand and essentially to improve the health and wellbeing of all Alaska Natives who live up in that northwestern region. 

The Maniilaq Association, for those who are not familiar with it, 

provides health, social and Tribal services to residents of 12 villages that are located in the Northwest Arctic Borough, and this 

bill will promote the much needed growth and expansion of a wellestablished and a successful, a very successful, rural Native 

healthcare provider. 

The witness who is joining us today will be the first up on Panel 

II, Mr. Paul Hansen, who is the Special Projects Coordinator and 

I will welcome and acknowledge Paul’s presence here before the 

Committee. I am going to be dashing downstairs and going and testifying on another energy bill that I have and then I will try to 

come back up here. But if I do not get back up before the Second 

Panel, I would like to just briefly, again, welcome Paul, thank him 

for his testimony. 

Many who know him know that he is not only the Deputy Administrator for Maniilaq Health Center but he is also a long-term 

competitive dog musher. And for those who follow the great races 

in Alaska, whether it is the Yukon Quest or the Iditarod, which we 

just completed, we take great pride in those who are engaged in 

this incredible sport and activity. He and his wife, Margaret, routinely win sprint races and his wife is a long-time school board 

member and elected Tribal council member of the Kotzebue IRA. 

They are both very active community members and we appreciate 

a great deal that Paul has traveled all the way from Kotzebue to 

be here today and taking time from his duties to testify before the 

Committee. 

So with that, Mr. Chairman, I will turn it back to you and again 

I am going to pop downstairs and try to get back up. But if I do 

not have an opportunity, I appreciate, again, the chance to welcome 

our witness and thank you for moving these bills. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Senator Murkowski. It is 

good to hear from you on this bill. 

Let me at this time introduce our first panel, Ms. Jodi Gillette, 

Deputy Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs at the Department of 

the Interior, and Mr. Robert McSwain, Deputy Director for ManVerDate 0ct 09 2002 08:58 Dec 11, 2012 Jkt 076221 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\DOCS\76221.TXT JACK
3

agement Operations at the Indian Health Service in the Department of Health and Human Services. 

Ms. Gillette, will you please proceed with your testimony. 

STATEMENT OF JODI GILLETTE, DEPUTY ASSISTANT

SECRETARY FOR INDIAN AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 

THE INTERIOR 

Ms. GILLETTE. Thank you, Chairman Akaka and thank you, 

Members of the Committee, Honorable Murkowski, for the opportunity to provide the Department’s position on H.R. 1560, a bill 

that will amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama Coushatta 

Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act. 

The Department of Interior supports H.R. 1560 which will allow 

the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo to determine the membership of their 

Tribe. Back in 1987, Congress passed the Restoration Act which restored the Federal trust relationship between the Federal Government and the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo. This Restoration Act, as 

passed, prescribed the membership for the Tribe to only those individuals on the Tribe’s 1984 membership roll and to their descendants with at least one-eighth or more Tigua-Ysleta del Sur Pueblo 

Indian blood and who are enrolled by the Tribe. 

H.R. 1560 would amend the Restoration Act to enable the Tribe 

to determine for themselves the blood quantum requirements, if 

any, for membership into the Tribe. The proposed amendment 

would delete the one-eighth blood quantum requirement and replace this requirement with ‘‘any person of Tigua-Ysleta del Sur 

Pueblo Indian blood enrolled by the Tribe.’’ This amendment would 

allow the Tribe to determine their own enrollment criteria, as any 

other federally-recognized Tribe has the right to do. 

The Department is in receipt of copies of Tribal resolutions from 

the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Tribal Council in support of this change 

to the blood quantum requirements stated within this legislation. 

Also, the Department supports the Tribe’s request to determine its 

criteria for membership which is consistent with the Administration’s support for the policies of self-governance and self-determination for all federally-recognized Tribes. 

Currently, the Tribal enrollment for the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo is 

1,691 members and the Department does not expect an additional 

Tribal priority allocation-based funding amount to be awarded to 

the Tribe regardless of the changes in the size of the Tribe. 

I will be happy to answer any questions the Committee may 

have. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Gillette follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JODI GILLETTE, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR INDIAN

AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

Good morning Mr. Chairman, Vice Chairman, and Members of the Committee. My 

name is Jodi Gillette. I am the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs at the 

Department of the Interior (Department). I am here today to provide the Department’s position on H.R. 1560, a bill to amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act to allow the Ysleta del Sur 

Pueblo Tribe to determine blood quantum requirements for membership in their 

Tribe. The Department supports H.R. 1560. 

4

Background 

In 1987 Congress passed the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama and Coushatta 

Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act (Restoration Act), which restored the federal 

trust relationship between the Federal Government and the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo 

(Tribe). 

The Restoration Act, 25 U.S.C. § 1300G–7(a)(2)(i), prescribes membership for the 

Tribe to only those individuals on the Tribe’s 1984 Membership Roll, and to their 

descendants with at least 1⁄8 or more Tigua-Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Indian blood and 

who are enrolled by the Tribe. This codified criterion has been adopted into Article 

3, Section 3.01, of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Code of Laws. Currently the tribal enrollment for the Ysleta Del Sur Pueblo is 1,691 members. Indian Affairs cannot find 

any other instances where a Tribe’s membership is bound by a blood quantum requirement under Federal statute. 

H.R. 1560

H.R. 1560 would amend the Restoration Act to enable the Tribe to determine for 

themselves the blood-quantum requirements, if any, for membership into the Tribe. 

The proposed amendment would delete the 1⁄8 blood quantum requirement and replace the current requirement with ‘‘any person of Tigua-Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Indian blood enrolled by the tribe.’’ This amendment would allow the Tribe to determine their own enrollment criteria, as any other federally-recognized tribe has the 

right to do. 

While the legislation would allow the Tribe to determine the size of its own membership, the Department does not expect an additional Tribal Priority Allocation 

base funding amount to be awarded to the Tribe. 

Indian tribes have the inherent authority to determine their membership. The Supreme Court has noted, ‘‘A tribe’s right to define its own membership for tribal purposes has long been recognized as central to its existence as an independent political 

community.’’ See Santa Clara Pueblo v. Martinez, 436 U.S. 49 (1978). The Department is in receipt of copies of tribal resolutions from the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Tribal Council in support of the change to the blood quantum requirements stated within the legislation. The Department supports the Tribe’s request to determine its criteria for membership, which is consistent with the Administration’s support for the 

policies of Self-Governance and Self-Determination for all federally recognized 

tribes. 

Conclusion 

This concludes my prepared statement. I will be happy to answer any questions 

the Committee may have.

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Ms. Gillette. 

Mr. MCSWAIN. will you please proceed with your testimony. 

STATEMENT OF ROBERT MCSWAIN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR 

MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS, INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE, U.S. 

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES 

Mr. MCSWAIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the 

Committee. Good afternoon. 

I am Robert McSwain, as announced, the Deputy Director of 

Management Operations of the Indian Health Service, and I am 

pleased to have the opportunity to testify on S. 1898 for the 

Maniilaq Association, providing for the conveyance of Indian 

Health Service real property located in Kotzebue, Alaska. 

In 1995, the, I think it is important to kind of point out some 

really important points that build to where we are. In 1995, the 

Maniilaq Association in Kotzebue, Alaska assumed responsibility 

for provision of IHS-funded services under the authority of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Act. They took over operating a program that the Indian Health Services had previously operated. 

On March 31, 2009, IHS transferred the ownership of the 

Maniilaq Health Center and Hospital by the use of quitclaim deed. 

5

So, after completing an environmental review and certification on 

November 18, 2009, two additional parcels of property named in 

this bill, including staff quarters, were transferred. Important 

point. We, the last environmental assessment assurance was made 

in 2009, three years ago. 

S. 1898 provides for the conveyance of Kotzebue property from 

the United States to the Maniilaq Association and proposes to modify the existing quitclaim by transferring, requiring the use of a 

warranty deed. A warranty deed is a fee simple, free, clear title to 

the property. 

IHS supports this bill because it views the proposed transfer as 

furthering the special partnership that exists between American 

Indian and Alaska Native Tribal governments, and moreover is in 

keeping with a Presidential Memorandum on administrative flexibility as it pertains to Tribal governments. 

It is important to emphasize as a normal practice we do not 

transfer properties via the warranty deed process mechanism. 

However, we will support the exception in this case because of the 

Tribe’s initiative to expand access to its healthcare system for its 

community members. 

We do believe the language in S. 1898 relating to environmental 

liability needs to be clarified so that the Maniilaq Association is responsible for any environmental contamination which may occur or 

arise as of or after the date of the 2009 conveyance. And the reversionary clause language should be clarified to apply should the Association cease to use the property for health purposes. 

It is important to point out that since 2009 there have been no 

existing problems with the current quitclaim deed signed in 2009 

with the Maniilaq Association. 

So, we look forward to working with you, Mr. Chairman, on 

measures like these to improve the health of the Alaska Native 

population. 

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you in support of S. 1898 and will be 

happy to answer any questions that you might have. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. McSwain follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF ROBERT MCSWAIN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR MANAGEMENT

OPERATIONS, INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN

SERVICES

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee: 

Good afternoon. I am Robert McSwain, Deputy Director for Management Operations of the Indian Health Service (IHS). I am pleased to have the opportunity to 

testify on the S. 1898 for the Maniilaq Association, providing for the conveyance of 

Indian Health Service (IHS) real property located in Kotzebue, Alaska. 

The Indian Health Service plays a unique role in the Department of Health and 

Human Services (HHS) because it is a health care system that was established to 

meet the federal trust responsibility to provide health care to American Indians and 

Alaska Natives (AI/ANs). The mission of the IHS, in partnership with American Indian and Alaska Native people, is to raise the physical, mental, social, and spiritual 

health of AI/ANs to the highest level. The IHS provides comprehensive health service delivery to approximately 2.1 million AI/ANs through 31 Hospitals, 50 health 

centers, 31 health stations and 2 school health centers. Tribes also provide 

healthcare access through an additional 15 hospitals, 254 health centers, 166 Alaska 

Village Clinics, 112 health stations and 18 school health centers. In support of the 

6

IHS mission, the IHS and Tribes provide access to functional, well maintained and 

accredited health care facilities and staff housing. 

S. 1898 deals with the conveyance of lands located in Kotzebue, Alaska which 

were used by the Federal Government for the delivery of IHS services. In 1995 the 

Maniilaq Association in Kotzebue, Alaska assumed responsibility for the provision 

of the IHS-funded health care services under the authority of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act (ISDEAA). Some of the federal property, 

which had been used in connection with health and related programs in Kotzebue, 

Alaska by the IHS, was transferred through quit claim deeds to the Maniilaq Association. 

S. 1898 provides for the conveyance of the Kotzebue property from the United 

States to the Maniilaq Association and proposes to modify the existing quit claim 

deed transfer by requiring the use of a warranty deed. On March 31, 2009, IHS 

transferred ownership of the Maniilaq Health Center/Hospital. After completing an 

environmental review and certification on November 18, 2009, the two additional 

parcels of property, named in this bill, including staff quarters, were transferred. 

The IHS supports this bill because it views the proposed transfer as furthering 

the special partnership that exists with American Indian and Alaska Native tribal 

governments, and, moreover, is in keeping with the Presidential Memorandum on 

Administrative Flexibility as it pertains to tribal governments. It is important to 

emphasize that, as a normal practice, we do not transfer properties via the warranty 

deed mechanism. However, we will support an exception in this case, because of the 

Tribe’s initiative to expand access to its health care system for community members. 

This proposal will give the Maniilaq Association flexibility to leverage additional resources because ownership of the property under a warranty deed will give them 

unencumbered ownership of the property described in S. 1898. 

We do believe the language, relating to environmental liability, needs to be clarified so the Maniilaq Association is responsible for any environmental contamination 

which may occur or arise ‘‘as of or after the date of the 2009 conveyance’’; and, the 

‘‘reversionary clause’’ language should be clarified to apply, should the Association 

cease to use the property for health purposes. 

We do not believe there will be reasons to use this mechanism in future cases. 

There are no existing problems with the current quit claim deed signed in 2009 with 

the Maniilaq Association. Traditionally, the Alaska Native Corporations have preferred to leave the title of their facilities previously operated by the IHS with the 

Federal Government. It is highly unlikely there will be similar requests from Tribes 

in the other 35 states to have warranty deeds since they are currently on tribally 

owned lands and the government leases property from them for the health care facilities. This warranty deed transfer would be the first of its kind in Alaska, since 

only one other property was transferred to the Southeast Alaska Regional Health 

Corporation through a quit claim deed. 

Concerning retrocession, we think it unlikely. We can count only four retrocessions since the enactment of ISDEAA in 1975 and these were only small program 

components and three have been re-assumed by the Tribes. None of these were in 

the Alaska Area. 

We look forward to working with you, Mr. Chairman, on measures like these to 

improve the health of the Alaska Native population. Mr. Chairman, this concludes 

my testimony. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you to discuss S. 1898. 

I will be happy to answer any questions the committee may have. Thank you.

Senator AKAKA. Well, thank you very much and we look forward 

to working with you also. Thank you so much for your statements. 

Ms. Gillette, can you elaborate on how the right of Tribes to determine their own membership furthers the Administration’s support for self-governance and self-determination. 

Ms. GILLETTE. I think that, consistent with the many, many 

years of history related to the ways that the Federal Government 

has worked with Indian Tribes, we are very, very supportive of the 

Tribe’s right to determine their own membership. And that is based 

upon how Tribes have made it through the different eras of history. 

The Supreme Court in Santa Clara versus Martinez affirmed the 

Tribes’ right, inherent right, to determine its own membership and 

this is something that we feel very strongly about as it relates to 

how a Tribe governs itself and its members. And when there are 

7

statutory provisions in place that limits a Tribe’s ability to determine their own membership, that is actually going against the line 

of reasoning that you would have a Tribe determine, be self-determining, and self-governing. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, this of course has been a goal of many of 

our indigenous peoples and we are fortunate to have an Administration that has indicated support for the indigenous people. And 

of course we want, in this case, the Tribes that we are talking 

about, to be able to use whatever the laws and policies or regulations are in place to help bring this about. So, thanks for the elaboration of the rights of the Tribes to determine their own membership. 

Mr. McSwain, can you describe the next steps in the process of 

transferring the property of this legislation if it is passed and tell 

us what the time frame would be for conveying the property? 

Mr. MCSWAIN. Thanks for the question, Mr. Chairman. The first 

step we are going to do, obviously, is go back and make sure that 

the land is free of any environmental concerns before we move to 

a warranty conveyance. We estimate 60 to 90 days on the conveyance depending on how many places we have got to go. 

I am sure that this is new for us. I should point out in the history of the Indian Health Service we have never done a warranty 

transfer. So, I am being optimistic when I say 90 days, but we are 

going to have to involve some other people, obviously in administration, to review what we are doing to make sure we are doing it 

correctly. 

But, there is no experience within the Indian Health Service of 

actually doing this. So we will be certainly looking at the department for their help and other departments as necessary. But that 

is sort of a gauge right now that I am looking at. It could take a 

little bit longer but should not take that much longer and we will 

certainly keep the Maniilaq Association apprised as we move forward. 

Senator AKAKA. I am so glad that you mention about looking at 

other departments and agencies because this is a rather new process for you and I want to commend you on that, tell you that I hope 

you can develop that partnership of working together with other 

agencies and departments to move some of these things along. 

And I must tell you at this point in time that I applaud the 

President’s style of moving things quickly. You know, instead of, for 

instance, having a commission, which is a formal group, to deal 

with an issue and then to put the group together and to get a 

chairman, it can take easily six months plus to bring that around. 

And by the time the commission gets to work, it is a year gone. 

Well, anyway, there goes the time. 

It takes a lot of time and it is more formal in organization. 

Whereas the President is the type that will say well, it is an issue 

that we need to do right now, get a team together of experts in that 

area and have them come together and work on whatever the issue 

is and when an answer is then recommended, that is it for the 

team. But it moves, as you can see, quickly. Your intent to include 

discussions with other agencies and departments is really a good 

thing to do and can help to move this. And you are honest to say 

you think 60 to 90 but you are not sure about what is going to hapVerDate 0ct 09 2002 08:58 Dec 11, 2012 Jkt 076221 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 S:\DOCS\76221.TXT JACK
8

pen. But from what you have said, I think that you will try your 

best to move as quickly as you can. Yes. 

Let me give you, and ask you, and give you an opportunity to 

make any further remarks, both of you, about this issue because, 

I do not know the exact number but there are about more than 500 

Tribes that you have to deal with on a continent that is considered 

American Indian Tribes, not counting the Alaskan, and so many 

things are coming along and we are trying to push these Tribes to 

be more vocal. This is why, as you know, at every hearing I am 

saying please, if you want to, you know, tell us something, do that, 

please. You have two weeks to do it. 

But the whole idea is to try to get the people out there, the indigenous people, in this case the Tribes, to voice their opinions. And 

so for them to be able to self-govern and determination, you know, 

use that more wisely and more often, you know, may be good. And 

I just wanted to have any further comments from either of you 

along those issues. 

Ms. Gillette? 

Ms. GILLETTE. In terms of what the Assistant Secretary and the 

Secretary have talked about a lot of the time is really giving tools 

to the Tribes to further their ability to self-govern and self-determine and I think that it has been tremendous to be able to work 

with your Committee and the Members of the Committee on how 

we can advance doing that. 

And I think that there is always a balance between funding considerations and how the Government is going to be able to provide 

tools when sometimes the tools cost money. And things like this, 

this bill, H.R. 1560, this is something that is going to allow for the 

Tribe to empower itself in a way that was limited by statute and 

we do not feel like it costs anything to the Federal taxpayers to do 

that. 

Each Tribe has a Tribal priority allocation-based funding, and 

that is pretty set, and whether a Tribe grows, whether it is through 

birth or through new members being identified in other cities or 

something like that, like, you know, when people are relocated and 

then a big family comes in through Indian Child Welfare Act or 

something like that, Tribes grow and through natural processes 

and the TPA does not usually, is not usually impacted by those 

kind of changes. 

And so, this is something that will not cost anything and it is a 

really good thing, I think. The more that we can remove some of 

those statutory or regulatory things that hinder Tribes to govern 

themselves, everybody wins in those cases. 

Thank you. 

Chairman AKAKA. Thank you very much. 

Mr. McSwain. 

Mr. MCSWAIN. Mr. Chairman, I was just reflecting on your question and I would say that if Dr. Roubideaux were sitting here today 

addressing this issue she would say what this does is further something very important to her, which is further the Tribal-Government relationship. And this is another way. 

And for purposes of our mission of delivering healthcare, whatever we can do to help the Tribes do that and to self-determine, in 

the case of Maniilaq, this is, and I will say that we say that with 

9

a lot of concerns about making sure this one is right, that no one 

fails and that there is no problem with it. 

But there is a lot of trust involved. We trust that they will do 

what they are committed to do and we will trust that we will follow 

their lead. That is what I believe Dr. Roubideaux would say if she 

were here. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, thank you very much. Thank you for your 

responses. 

And now we are delighted to have our Senator Udall here and 

I would like to call on you for any opening statement or questions 

you may have. 

STATEMENT OF HON. TOM UDALL,

U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO 

Senator UDALL. Chairman Akaka, thank you very much. And 

thank you for holding this very important hearing. 

The two bills you have today coming before the Committee I 

think are of great importance to many communities of Native 

Americans and Alaska Natives. And I would like to take a minute 

to focus especially on the second bill, which is H.R. 1560, a bill that 

would amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama and 

Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act. 

The Ysleta del Sur Pueblo is a member of the All Indian Pueblo 

Council, headquartered in New Mexico. The All Indian Pueblo 

Council has 19 members. I believe the Ysleta del Sur is the 20th 

member. So these are all pueblos in New Mexico or nearby New 

Mexico and, in fact, the Tribe is originally from New Mexico and 

maintains relationships with other pueblos in New Mexico. 

H.R. 1560 already passed this Committee the last Congress and 

has passed in the full House in three consecutive Congresses. So, 

we have had a bill that has some real life and has shown that it 

can get through three different Congresses and we need to get the 

job done on this one. 

H.R. 1560 would simply allow the Yselta del Sur Tribe the same 

right that other Tribes justifiably enjoy, the right to determine who 

can be enrolled in the Tribe. Specifically, the bill would release the 

Tribe from the current one-eighth degree requirement and allow 

the Tribe to determine blood quantum requirements for Tribal 

membership. It is a simple bill. It is a good bill. I look forward to 

hearing related testimony and urge my colleagues to support H.R. 

1560 and the efforts of the Ylseta del Sur Pueblo to exercise selfdetermination. 

I would also say that the All Indian Pueblo Council supports 

H.R. 1560. They have advised me of this, they have passed a resolution, and they want it to be known that they are very supportive 

of H.R. 1560. 

[The information referred to follows:]

10


322a1.eps

ALL INDIAN PUEBLO CUUNCIL Office ofthe Chairman 

ALL INDIAN PUEBLO CO-tiNea, 

ru;:SOLUTTON 20U..o7 

RESOLUTION SUl'l'OR'flNG YSL&l'A DEL SO.R.I'1))UltO'S PROPOSED 

LEGlSLA nON TO AMENn ITS RESTORATION ACT TO DETEm-UN& "LOOll 

QUANTUM REQUIREMENT FOR 'rroDAL MEMBERSlID' AND R£QUESTI.~G THE 

FEDERAL TRUSTEE ASSIST nIl!: YSLETA DEL SUR l'tJ1mLO INITS EFFOlITS 

WHEREAS. /lle Ail Imlian Pueblo Co""",l (",AlPe") is ~rlsed L>ft'>e Pueblc1; -of A=i~ 

CiXlhili, Jem .. ", !sIela,. Lilg1m., SImla AnR, Sandia, s'm Felipe, S~'" Domingo, Zl.a, ZIlnl, 

N"m.b~, P~,tlds, Paj~aq'Ue, SantaClll1 .... !lan.lldcron.o, S""jnaD, T~,uque, Too"and 1 SOV'lreisn 

Pu.blo iQ ths Slate ofT"",," (Yslctu.Dcl Sur); each possessing inherellt government autborityt~ 

govern their ov.TI lIffujr:s; all1l 

'WlIEfUi)AS, lh .. 1\:<ler81 govemm.nt hIlS a !lPwmm~"IIt-t""l>Uvc'UWj""! Id"uuw.l.til' wiU, ~," 

s~te. pllebJo, tIll: YsJela de! S~f PadJ.io, !IIl.conii.'"llII:d in the .R~l\lmtloo Act, 25 U.S,c. §- ~ }OOg 

-.t ~q.~Ml<I 

WlillR'EAS, ~ imr-ose;i a liS TIgua b100<l "'lIuirtltnet1t COl' tribal nemb-e~hl!> in ilie R~rml(;.11 Act \!rntrestric:s !he Yslcta del Stu: Pueblo &om """r~::'ing w.-rh:Jrity to gtl'I'<:I'll it!! 

ln~('WIII alfftlrs; and 

WHEREAS, the authority to JlIIIk~ Juw~ oollcemiug iolcnlil1 rci,1t\On'l of a tribe is ooe oflh~ 

great~:I! attributes of tribal sovereignI)'; au" 

WHIWEAS, tl:e plxtkal effect otrestrictillg to;e Ysl.::ta del Stir :Pu,:hkl fi:mn determining ill! 

rrlbel m>!l!lMhip or.teria is ultimate :<:nlthl'llh>n;",...<1 

WHEREAS, """"l'll<>r 0"" remli.,.1Ertion ern em"""",,,,, Consres;; ill; 'llbjo::>.<Jd:oo O'Jrnr-uihe Of 

!'u!lblc 'in tl1e U.s" !ncI~dlug lh)w WCQ£Ii!z:en a< ;::mom! ro a ;n$ rebtim;shIp ~ub~ tD 

'Im ~tomlion Am, ill sllJ:h a blood q,mntum limitation; and 

\VlJlCREAS, the V.lela del S\ll' Pu"blo b", proposed legislaticn In Consros. to amend the 

RosWm:iI<lll Act to all<lw /I", Pt1eblo '" d.lernIi~. Its blood q"au(t,,,, Nq1!k .. ",.nt. for lribal 

memb~l1lhiJ?, which is au auwonly that;\]1 other tribes and Pu¢bloe "fIjoy; and 
11

So with that, Chairman Akaka, I thank this panel of witnesses 

and look forward to the Second Panel. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator 

Udall. And I want to thank our first panel. Thank you for being 

here and supporting our bill. Thank you. 

I would like to invite the second panel to the witness table, Mr. 

Paul Hansen, who is the Deputy Administrator at the Maniilaq 

Health Center in Kotzebue, Alaska, and Honorable Carlos Hisa, 

Lieutenant Governor of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo in El Paso, 

Texas. Accompanying Lieutenant Governor Hisa is Ms. Janette 

Hernandez, a Tribal member with the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo. 

Mr. Hansen, please proceed with your testimony.


322a2.eps
12

STATEMENT OF PAUL HANSEN, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, 

MANIILAQ HEALTH CENTER 

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Chairman, Mr. Senator. 

My name is Paul Hansen. I am the Deputy Administrator at 

Maniilaq Health Center in Kotzebue. I am here on behalf of the 

Maniilaq Association. 

Maniilaq is an Association of 12 Tribal governments in northwest 

Alaska. The association is a regional non-profit health corporation 

and we provide services under the self-governance provisions of the 

Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act. 

I have worked for the Association now for more than 30 years 

and have seen a lot of advancement in the provision of services and 

the way that we have been able to provide those services as the 

Self-Determination Act has been amended. I think the self-governance provisions of the ISDEAA have resulted in very good things. 

The Association started contracting with the Indian Health Service back in the late 1970s and in the early 1980s. In 1988, the Association contracted for the hospital operations in Kotzebue and assumed all of the Indian Health Service responsibilities for provision 

of services to the service area. In 1995, we were one of the original 

signers of the Alaska Tribal Health Compact and started providing 

those services under self-governance. 

Today, we are here in support of Senate Bill 1898. As you have 

mentioned, there is a companion bill that was passed by the House, 

H.R. 443. Because of where we are in the legislative session, I 

would ask that this Committee approve the House version of that 

bill. Those two bills differ a little bit in the way they were drafted 

but the content is substantially the same. That way, that would 

keep us from going back and either having the House re-approve 

the bill or a conference being needed to work out the details of 

that. 

The bill provides for conversion from a quitclaim deed to a warranty deed of three parcels of property in Kotzebue. One parcel is 

the property that the hospital sits on and the two other parcels 

hold quarters for the folks who work at the hospital and in the new 

long-term care center. 

Some of the impetus for this action came as a result of our recent 

completion of a long-term care center that was co-located to the 

Maniilaq Health Center in Kotzebue. We are very proud of that facility. It was a long-time dream of the board to be able to provide 

long-term care services in the region. Until now, when elders needed that level of medical care they had to move down to Anchorage, 

which is over 500 air miles away, which separated them from their 

families during their last days. It was really a sad situation that 

now has been alleviated. So we are very proud and excited about 

the new program. 

We would like to convert these quitclaim deeds to warranty 

deeds because of some inadequacies that are in the provisions of 

the quitclaim deeds. The quitclaim deed imposes some conditions 

and obligations that are beyond those that are required in the Indian Self-Determination Act. We would like the deeds to reflect 

only those conditions that the Act also imposes. Additionally, the 

quitclaim deed contains some reversionary clauses again that go 

beyond what are required by the Indian Self-Determination Act. 

13

We would like a warranty deed that would eliminate both those 

inadequacies of the quitclaim deeds and help us have more security 

in that property and more fully use the property for its true value. 

With that, I would like to thank the Committee for allowing me 

to represent our Tribes here and provide the testimony. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hansen follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF PAUL HANSEN, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, MANIILAQ

HEALTH CENTER

My name is Paul Hansen and I am the Deputy Administrator for the Maniilaq 

Health Center and I am pleased to testify before this Committee on behalf of the 

Maniilaq Association. The Maniilaq Association is an Alaska Native regional nonprofit organization representing twelve tribes in Northwest Alaska. We strongly 

support S. 1898, legislation that would convey certain property from the United 

States to the Maniilaq Association located in Kotzebue, Alaska. We thank the Alaska congressional delegation for introducing and moving this legislation. 

The Maniilaq Association has for many years carried out a range of health and 

social services programs in the Northwest Arctic Borough on behalf of its member 

Alaska Native villages under the Self- Governance provisions of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act (ISDEAA). Maniilaq Association carries 

out these programs in accordance with the Alaska Tribal Health Compact with the 

United States and Funding Agreements with the Indian Health Service. 

As you know, the House has passed companion legislation to S. 1898 (H.R. 443 

introduced by Representative Don Young). While the bills have some minor drafting 

differences they are substantively the same and would accomplish the same things. 

In the interest of not having to have a conference on this legislation or the House 

being required to re-pass it, we recommend that the Senate approve the House-passed 

bill. We know there is little floor time left in this session, and are concerned that 

requiring the House to act again would endanger enactment of this legislation. The 

bills would require the Secretary of Health and Human Services to convey to the 

Maniilaq Association property located in Kotzebue, Alaska, for use in connection 

with these health and social service programs. The property to be conveyed consists 

of three parcels of land including buildings and appurtenances on the land. 

The first parcel is an 8.10 acre tract on which the Maniilaq Health Center is located and on which the Maniilaq Association recently completed the construction of 

a long term care facility adjacent to the Health Center. Completion of this project 

has been a long term goal of Maniilaq Association and was the product of many 

years of work. In connection with this project Maniilaq Association unsuccessfully 

sought authorization from Indian Health Service to build the long term care facility 

as an addition to the Health Center which was owned by the Indian Health Service. 

Finally, after several years of discussion, Maniilaq Association realized that to keep 

the project moving it had no option but to agree with the Indian Health Service’s 

suggestion that it accept title to the property. The parcel was transferred by the Indian Health Service to the Maniilaq Association through a Quitclaim Deed issued 

by the Indian Health Service to the Maniilaq Association on March 31, 2009. Final 

construction of the 18 bed facility was completed last year. The facility was dedicated in October, 2011 and its first residents moved in that same month. 

The second and third parcels described in S. 1898/H.R. 443 are land on which 

housing for employees of the Health Center and long term care facility is located. 

The Indian Health Service transferred these parcels to Maniilaq Association approximately six months after the first parcel was transferred. 

The conveyance required by S. 1898/H.R. 443 will be through a warranty deed 

without consideration and without imposing any obligation, term, or condition on 

the Maniilaq Association, or reversionary interest in the United States, other than 

required by S. 1898/H.R. 443 itself or by section 51 2(c)(2)(B) of the ISDEAA. This 

makes the conveyance required by S. 1898/H.R. 443 consistent with the ISDEAA, 

which allows reversion of title back to the United States, at the option of the Secretary, only upon retrocession or withdrawal by the Maniilaq Association from the 

Alaska Tribal Health Compact or re-assumption of the compacted programs by the 

Indian Health Service. 

The warranty deed required by S. 1898/H.R. 443 will supersede the Quitclaim 

Deed issued by the Secretary to the Maniilaq Association on March 31, 2009. The 

quitclaim deed includes provisions for Indian Health Service control of the Maniilaq 

Association’s use of the property which are inconsistent with conveyance of title 

under the ISDEAA. For example, the quitclaim deed requires Indian Health Service 

14

approval for any mortgage or encumbrance of the property as security for construction or other loans for improvements on the property. Indian Health Service approval is also required for any contract which would impact the value of the property. This gives the Indian Health Service continuing control over the Maniilaq Association’s use of the property. Breach of these requirements, which are made covenants running with the land, results in an immediate reversion of title back to the 

Indian Health Service. This goes far beyond the conditions for reversion of title back 

to the United States in section 51 2(c)(2)(B) of the ISDEAA. 

While a quitclaim deed transfers the grantor’s interest in the property, it does not 

warrant that the title is valid. Transfer by warranty deed, which requires special 

legislation, expressly guarantees the grantor’s good and clear title and contains covenants concerning the quality of title, freedom from encumbrances, and defense of 

title against other claims. This gives the Maniilaq Association more security in its 

title and more flexibility in use of the property in carrying out health and social 

services programs for its member villages. 

S. 1898/H.R. 443 exempts the Maniilaq Association from liability for environmental contamination or hazards, as defined in Federal law, present on the property 

as of the date of conveyance, notwithstanding any provision of Federal law. S. 1898/

H.R. 443 does not pre-empt state environmental laws and the Secretary is granted 

any easement or access to the property which may be necessary for the Secretary 

to satisfy any retained environmental obligations and liability prior to conveyance. 

The Secretary must also comply with the notice and warranty provisions of the 

Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act 

(CERCLA) applicable to transfer of property owned by the United States on which 

any hazardous substance was stored for one year or more, known to be released, 

or disposed of on the property. 

Enactment of S. 1898/H.R. 443 will enable the Maniilaq Association to exercise 

its rights of ownership in the transferred property consistent with the ISDEAA and 

the principles of self-governance. 

On behalf of the Maniilaq Association, including our twelve constituent villages 

and their members, we thank the Committee for holding this hearing on S. 1898.

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much. 

And now, Lieutenant Governor Hisa, you proceed with your testimony. 

STATEMENT OF HON. CARLOS HISA, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, 

YSLETA DEL SUR PUEBLO; ACCOMPANIED BY JANETTE

HERNANDEZ, TRIBAL MEMBER 

Mr. HISA. Thank you. Good afternoon Chairman, Senator Udall. 

First of all, thank you for giving the Pueblo the opportunity to 

come and testify in support of H.R. 1560. 

Quick introductions. My name is Carlos Hisa. I am the Lieutenant Governor for the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo-Tigua Nation located in 

El Paso, Texas. I have served in this capacity for 11 terms, which 

is 11 years. With me today is our Governor, Frank Paiz, our Legislative Assistant, Jessica Cordova and Janette Hernandez, a Tribal 

member, a student, an intern in our Social Services Department 

and a mother. She also provided written testimony that is attached 

to my packet in which she gives examples of what she faces because of this limitation on a constant basis at home. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, welcome to all of you. 

Mr. HISA. Thank you. 

We are here to ask the Committee to favorably support H.R. 

1560 and get it out of Committee and into the Senate for a vote, 

hopefully by this spring. There is a sense of urgency. We have identified a couple of descendants that need our assistance with their 

ICWA cases and educational services that we want to provide. 

The amendment in this bill just gives the Tribe the opportunity 

to determine its own membership. It is something that every Tribe 

15

in the nation practices and we are limited. This is interfering in 

our sovereignty, self-determination and self-governance. So, we are 

strongly pushing this and hopefully we can get it passed. 

As mentioned by Senator Udall, this is not the first time this bill 

has been introduced to the Congress. A year and a half ago we 

managed to get it out of the House successfully with no opposition. 

When it came to the Senate, there was a CBO report that was introduced which stated that the Federal Government would be responsible financially for the increase in the population. That was 

an incorrect statement. As much as we tried to correct that, we ran 

out of time and it failed to pass the Senate. 

This year, we again managed to get it out of the House successfully with no opposition and it is in the Senate. Since then, we 

have corrected that CBO report. The CBO now states that our 

funding is not based on population. It is on formulas that were put 

into place back in 1987 when we were recognized. And again, it is 

not based on population. Our population will increase, but again, 

the Federal Government will not be responsible for giving us any 

additional dollars for this. 

The bill is something that the Tribe has prioritized. We really 

want to stress that and wish that we can get it out by this spring, 

if possible. 

I am here to answer any questions. So is Janette Hernandez. She 

is a prime example of what the bill has created. It has a created 

identity crises in situations amongst our youth in our Tribal community and she experiences this every day. As you can see from 

the picture here, that is her daughter who is a descendant. I would 

like, if you could give her some time so she can explain the types 

of things that she faces at home. 

I am at your disposal to answer any questions that you may 

have. 

Thank you for the opportunity. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hisa follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. CARLOS HISA, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, YSLETA DEL

SUR PUEBLO; ACCOMPANIED BY JANETTE HERNANDEZ, TRIBAL MEMBER

Good afternoon Mr. Chairman, honorable members of the Senate Committee on 

Indian Affairs. My name is Carlos Hisa and I am accompanied by Janette Hernandez, an enrolled member of Ysleta del Sur Pueblo whose children are directly 

impacted by the blood quantum limit requirements for tribal membership. Her 

statement is attached hereto as Exhibit A. I am a member of Ysleta del Sur Pueblo 

located in El Paso County, Texas. For the past 11 years I have served as the Lt. 

Governor of the Pueblo. My term of office is one year. The matter under consideration has been a priority for the Pueblo since before my first term. 

H.R. 1560 is about freedom—freedom from intrusive federal control. Beginning in 

the 1970s, this Congress embarked on a new federal Indian policy. You rejected the 

destructive policies of termination of Indian tribes, assimilation of Indian people and 

their culture, and the dispossession and despoiling of Indian lands. Instead, you created the present self-determination era of Indian law to free Indian tribes from an 

overreaching Federal Government. This Congress has encouraged Indian tribes to 

take up the mantle of self-government as distinct and independent political entities. 

Critical to that task is the ability of an Indian tribe to determine its own membership. The Supreme Court has noted, ‘‘A tribe’s right to define its own membership 

for tribal purposes has long been recognized as central to its existence as an independent political community.’’ See Santa Clara Pueblo v. Martinez, 436 U.S. 49 

(1978). Community determination of its own membership is inherently the most internal of all tribal matters. 

16

The Pueblo has occupied its present location since the Spaniards removed it from 

New Mexico during the Pueblo Revolt of 1680. The Pueblo has existed at its present 

location twice as long as the State of Texas has been in existence. It is the longest 

continually occupied community in Texas. It is the only Indian Pueblo still existing 

in Texas. It recently rejoined the All Indian Pueblo Council after being absent for 

over 330 years. The Council now comprises twenty Pueblos. 

In 1968, toward the end of the termination era, Congress recognized the Pueblo 

as an Indian tribe and transferred federal trust responsibilities for the Pueblo to 

the State of Texas. On August 18, 1987, the United States Congress restored the 

Federal trust relationship between the United States and the Pueblo. In the Restoration Act, Congress imposed a 1⁄8 Tigua blood quantum requirement for membership. 

No other Indian tribe in Texas is subject to a congressionally mandated blood 

quantum limitation on its membership. No other Pueblo is subject to such a blood 

quantum limitation. Except for one early termination era enactment, Congress has 

subjected no other tribe in the United States to such a blood quantum limitation 

for membership. In fact Congress has declined to include such a blood quantum limitation on those Indian tribes which Congress has recognized (five tribes) or restored 

to trust relationship (two tribes) subsequent to the Pueblo’s Restoration Act. With 

the exception of Ysleta del Sur Pueblo, Congress has not imposed a blood quantum 

limitation on any tribe in over half a century. 

Ysleta del Sur Pueblo is a tribe of Tigua Indians. To be Tigua is to believe in the 

power of our drum, the heartbeat of our community; to respect the authority of our 

Cacique; and to revere our traditions. Unfortunately, the blood quantum limitation 

has had the effect of preventing Tiguas from being members. At present, sixty-six 

percent of tribal members lack a 1⁄4 blood quantum. Absent the other parent having 

sufficient Tigua blood quantum, the children of sixty-six percent of tribal members 

cannot be members of the Pueblo despite being Tigua. This includes my three 

daughters. 

Our young men and women are vibrant Pueblo people who are part of our community. Many aspire to serve our Pueblo, but do not meet the blood quantum limitation 

to be a member. They participate in our cultural events, they study our history, they 

engage in community service, they learn and speak the Tiwa language, and they understand the importance of carrying the traditions of our Pueblo forward. These ‘‘descendants’’ are a part of our community and our people recognize them as legitimate 

members. They are Tigua. They are our future, our hope, but they will not be able 

to serve as Tribal Councilmen and Councilwomen or in other tribal offices. They will 

not be eligible for federally funded services from the Pueblo. 

They live on our reservation and interact with our members who are their mothers, fathers, grandfathers, grandmothers, cousins, uncles, aunts, and neighbors and 

influence the entire community for good or for bad. They must be treated like citizens of our Pueblo, but if not included as members they will not be subject to the 

jurisdiction of the Pueblo. The inability to exert jurisdiction over people who are the 

children of many of our members has a negative social impact on our Pueblo. 

Passage of H.R. 1560 frees the Pueblo to make all Tigua members rather than 

accepting only those who meet the requisite blood quantum but who may otherwise 

be anything but ‘‘Tigua.’’ Passage of H.R. 1560 assures the future of the Pueblo and 

the continued security of its people and neighbors without cost to the Federal Government. 

The legislative history of the Pueblo’s Restoration Act records the Department of 

the Interior’s belief that the Congress should place some limit on the potential service population of tribes being made eligible for federal benefits, the first time that 

the Department expressed this concern—a concern, as previously noted, that has 

been applied only to this Pueblo. Congress has never seen fit to do so since the 

Pueblo’s Restoration Act, perhaps due to the sentiments expressed in a House Committee Report accompanying the bill—

The Committee has strong reservations about the constitutionality of a law 

which would determine eligibility for such Federal services based on a racial 

criterium such as the degree of Indian blood instead of a political criterium such 

as the membership in an Indian tribe.

The language of H.R. 1560 is the same as that H.R. 5811 introduced by Congressman Reyes in the last Congress. On a motion to suspend the rules, the House 

agreed to and passed the bill by voice vote on September 22, 2010. This committee 

reported the bill favorably by unanimous voice vote on November 18, 2010. The bill 

was placed on the Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders where it languished, possibly due to an erroneous CBO cost estimate. 

17

Given the unique manner in which the Federal Government funds Native American services, enactment of H.R. 1560 will have no federal fiscal impact. In support 

of this statement I am providing the committee with copies of the Congressional 

Budget Office Cost Estimate (Exhibit B) that confirms:

‘‘CBO estimates that implementing H.R. 1560 would have no significant impact 

on the federal budget.’’

The Cost Estimate also maintains that:

‘‘H.R. 1560 contains no intergovernmental or private-sector mandates as defined 

in the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act and would impose no costs on state, 

local, or tribal governments.

Federal programs which fund tribal services, including those of the Pueblo, are 

not entitlement programs. Agencies distribute appropriated funds among Indian 

tribes in their service area according to set percentages which are independent of 

any increase or decrease in a tribe’s population. The Pueblo’s 1989 budget serves 

as base funding for BIA allocations, and its 2002 budget serves as base funding for 

IHS allocations—as is true of all other tribes in the same service areas. 

Expeditious passage of H.R. 1560 frees the Pueblo to determine its own future, 

is consistent with recent Congressional action, and has no impact on the federal coffers. I respectfully request your support for and passage of H.R. 1560.

EXHIBIT A—PREPARED STATEMENT OF JANETTE HERNANDEZ, TRIBAL MEMBER, YSLETA DEL SUR PUEBLO

Good afternoon Chairman and honorable members of the Senate Committee on 

Indian Affairs. My name is Janette Hernandez and I am a member of Ysleta Del 

Sur Pueblo. I am currently a student at the University of Texas at El Paso and 

serve as an intern at the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo’s Social Services Department. I am 

also a mother of three little girls and step-mother to eight children. It is my duty 

as a Tigua woman to teach the next generation about the Tigua who have come before us and teach them about our roles and responsibilities to carry on our traditions and customs. It is also my duty to be there not only for my children, but for 

every child of the Pueblo. 

However, we are facing a crisis at Ysleta del Sur Pueblo. For over 300 years the 

Pueblo has struggled to preserve its culture and community. We are proud of our 

ancestors who, captured by the Spanish during the Pueblo Revolt of 1680 and forced 

away from their homelands, established and defended what is now Ysleta del Sur 

Pueblo. As Tigua women, my mother and grandmother taught the other women in 

my family the importance of carrying on traditions and passing on the Tigua way 

of life. For centuries the Pueblo has endured the loss of its lands, the loss of use 

of other natural resources, and the loss of rights to determine how the community 

will care and provide for our children and future generations. It has been a 300 year 

struggle to survive as a community established and looked after by our Tigua ancestors. For as long as Tiguas have survived in Ysleta, tribal members have sought to 

live a life free of poverty, discrimination, and uncertainty. This is not yet a reality. 

Despite such obstacles we have taught our children to hold on, persevere, and 

standup for our identity as an Indian community. In the 1960s, when the Tigua 

were finally recognized as a tribe, members had lost almost everything, but we had 

each other. No one told us who could and could not be Tigua. 

As Tigua parents, we want to create a safe, healthy and nurturing environment 

for our children. However, as Tigua parents we face the insecurity of knowing that 

our culture, spirituality, and community are threatened. As a parent, it is overwhelming to know that your children and their children could be deprived of their 

heritage and traditions. As an Indian community we are forced to not only deal with 

the pressure of raising our children during complex and dangerous times, but we 

also must cope with cultural anxiety and uncertainty that is unknown to other ethnic communities. That anxiety and insecurity is passed on to our children. The will 

and tenacity to survive as a people may now be defeated by a sentence in our Restoration Act, an Act meant to restore and preserve a community but now operates 

to deny the next generations of Tigua youth their place in the community. Our children are deprived of federal services such as education and other service opportunities in their own community. 

My two youngest daughters are considered tribal members because my husband 

is also a tribal member. However, my oldest daughter from my first marriage to a 

non-Indian does not meet the 1987 Restoration Act definition of a Tigua. She is considered a descendant because she is below the minimum blood quantum. My husband’s other children are tribal members because my husband has a higher blood 

18

quantum than I do. So, my oldest daughter is the only one in our family who is 

not recognized by the government as a tribal member. 

She is only eight years old but understands that because she is not Indian 

‘‘enough,’’ she does not qualify for federal programs or services. She will not receive 

the trust protections and benefits she would have as a tribal member. She will not 

be able to live as an equal with her people. My child feels excluded from her own 

community. Yet, she still carries the responsibility of guarding and working to protect the Tigua way of life through her active participation in traditional ceremonies. 

She is wise for her age and recognizes that she needs to take care of what matters 

most, protecting and continuing the Tigua culture so that the Tigua will not cease 

to exist. She participates in all traditional events and everyone in our small community knows that she is my daughter and comes from a long line of Tigua leaders, 

elders, and ancestors. To the Pueblo, she is a Tigua. She is a tribal member. 

I fear that the mixed messages my daughter receives will be detrimental to her 

realizing her dreams as a Tigua adult. The burden of an eight year old being acknowledged by her family and community as a Tigua, but our government telling 

her she cannot be a member of our tribe is unfair and detrimental to her health, 

welfare and security. It is a ‘‘label’’ that is detrimental to all Tigua children in this 

situation, the stigma that they don’t really belong. Throughout our community there 

are mothers and children who share my story. 

The blood quantum requirement raises countless issues. It divides us as a people 

and is just another way that we as Native Americans are discriminated against, in 

general and this time among ourselves. There is no other race where individuals are 

asked how pure their blood is. So as a mother, a Tigua, and also a descendant of 

those Tiguas that came before, I ask that you understand and acknowledge our sovereignty, our legacy, and the devastation the blood quantum limitation is inflicting 

on our community. But, most importantly I ask you to help to preserve a culture 

and a community.

EXHIBIT B 

September 9, 2011

Hon. DOC HASTINGS,

Chairman, 

Committee on Natural Resources, 

U.S. House of Representatives, 

Washington, DC.

Dear Mr. Chairman:

The Congressional Budget Office has prepared the enclosed cost estimate for H.R. 

1560, a bill to amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama and Coushatta Indian 

Tribes of Texas Restoration Act to allow the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Tribe to determine blood quantum requirement for membership in that tribe. 

If you wish further details on this estimate, we will be pleased to provide them. 

The CBO staff contacts are Martin von Gnechten (for programs of the Bureau of 

Indian Affairs) and Robert Stewart (for programs of the Indian Health Service). 

Sincerely, 

DOUGLAS W. ELMENDORF.

Attachment

Congressional Budget Office Cost Estimate 

H.R. 1560 would amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama and Coushatta 

Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act to eliminate the requirement that individuals have a blood quantum level of at least one-eighth to qualify for tribal membership. This legislation would allow the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo tribe to establish its 

own blood quantum requirement for determining membership. 

Based on information from the Department of the Interior, the Indian Health 

Service, and members of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo tribe, CBO estimates that implementing H.R. 1560 would have no significant impact on the federal budget. Federal 

agencies currently provide services to all of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Indians who 

would become tribal members under H.R. 1560 because those agencies do not restrict services based on tribal membership established under the Ysleta del Sur 

Pueblo and Alabama and Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act. Enacting the legislation would not affect direct spending or revenues; therefore, pay-asyou-go procedures do not apply. 

H.R. 1560 contains no intergovernmental or private-sector mandates as defined in 

the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act and would impose no costs on state, local, or 

19

tribal governments. Enacting this legislation would benefit the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo tribe. 

The CBO staff contacts for this estimate are Martin von Gnechten (for Bureau 

of Indian Affairs programs) and Robert Stewart (for Indian Health Service programs). This estimate was approved by Peter H. Fontaine, Assistant Director for 

Budget Analysis.

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Lieutenant Governor, for 

your testimony. 

Mr. Hansen, how will transferring of this property in this bill 

allow the Association more security and flexibility at your facility 

and improve services of Tribal members? 

Mr. HANSEN. As I mentioned, there are a couple of inadequacies. 

One of the things that we are facing now, we moved into the new 

Maniilaq Health Center in 1995, so 17 years later a lot of the 

equipment is nearing the end of its useful life. We are having to 

do some major equipment replacements. Also, the facility is needing to be renovated and some changes made to the facility. 

We would like to be able to finance some of those equipment purchases, which is standard in the industry. But with the reversionary clauses that exist, it frankly raises eyebrows from the financial institutions in terms of allowing us to use that asset to borrow money against. 

Additionally, we are working on and looking at some tax credit 

programs to expand some of our facilities and again, having more 

security for that property through a warranty deed, that would 

allow us to do that. 

Senator AKAKA. Lieutenant Governor Hisa, can you describe 

what impact the passage of H.R. 1560 would have on the Tribal 

membership of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo? 

Mr. HISA. It would be a positive impact for our community. We 

have a large number of descendants and it continues to grow. And 

we do provide services for our community, both federally funded 

and services that are funded by the Tribal Council from revenues 

that we generate from our business or whatever. 

But we cannot extend those services, like we do to the Tribal 

members have full services, so the impact would be just tremendous in helping everybody in parity with the same services that are 

available. 

Senator AKAKA. Ms. Hernandez, we have a photo here of your 

daughter who is now eight. 

Ms. HERNANDEZ. Yes. 

Senator AKAKA. And in your testimony you note that this beautiful young girl is not able to be enrolled as a member in the Pueblo because of the restrictions in the settlement agreement. This has 

led her to believe she is not Indian enough. 

Ms. HERNANDEZ. Correct. 

Senator AKAKA. Can you describe the impact that has had on 

your daughter? But, before you do that, if you have any comments 

you would like to make before you answer the question, we certainly would want to hear you. 

Ms. HERNANDEZ. First of all, good afternoon Chairman and Honorable Members of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. I really 

appreciate the opportunity to tell the story of my daughter and of 

our family and of our Pueblo and how this Restoration Act blood 

20

quantum limitations has had an effect, especially on my daughter. 

The rest of our family are considered Tribal members and my 

daughter is the only one who is excluded. She does not meet the 

minimum blood quantum of one-eighth. So she is not a registered 

member of the Tribe. But she is a member of our Tribe. She participates in every way. She is always there but she is not sure of 

who she is because she gets two messages. She knows she is a 

Tribal member because our community lets her know that she is 

a part of us and yet she cannot receive the same benefits as a Tribal member. 

And that is where, my daughter has come home crying because 

she does not understand. She knows it is not fair. Other kids make 

fun of her because they say she should not be with us and the community because she is not a Tribal member, she is a descendant. 

And they make that distinction. 

Senator AKAKA. As you tell me she feels that way, what determines that she is not a Tribal member? 

Ms. HERNANDEZ. My blood quantum is three-sixteenths. So when 

I was in my first marriage, her father is not a Tribal member. So, 

she is three-thirty-seconds, which is less than one-eighth. 

Senator AKAKA. Oh, I see. 

Ms. HERNANDEZ. My two younger daughters, my current husband is a Tribal member, so my two younger daughters are considered one-fourth. So, they meet the minimum blood quantum. And 

my husband’s children are also considered Tribal members. So, she 

is the only one from our family who is not a Tribal member because 

she does not meet the minimum one-eighth. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, now coming back to the question, can you 

describe and you did, can you further describe the impact that this 

has made on your daughter. 

Ms. HERNANDEZ. Other instances that my daughter has questioned her identity is, we have a library in our Tribe and on our 

reservation, and when she goes in she must sign in. And there are 

two different sign-in sheets. There is one for descendants and there 

is one for Tribal members. This is for funding purposes. Carlos can 

elaborate on that. But, there is that separation and she feels that 

separation and where she is distinguished that she is not a Tribal 

member and she is a descendant and she carries that with her. But 

she also carries the responsibility of being a Tribal member and 

participating and carrying on our traditions and our ways of life. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. I would like to call now on Senator 

Tom Udall for his questions. 

Senator UDALL. Chairman Akaka, thank you very much. And she 

really, Janette, she really looks like a lovely young lady and I am 

sure that you are very proud of her. 

First of all, let me just welcome the Governor, other Tribal officials and Lieutenant Governor on our panel today. It is good to 

have you here. 

I thought, I would ask about, to start with Janette and ask about 

this division this has caused within the family and within the 

Tribe. You know, we do not, in the United States, if you are an 

American nobody says you are this percentage American, that percentage of American. I imagine that that is, the best word is divisive. It sets up so that she signs in and she has to sign in difVerDate 0ct 09 2002 08:58 Dec 11, 2012 Jkt 076221 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6601 S:\DOCS\76221.TXT JACK
21

ferently. Could you describe the impact on her and the impact that 

you know of of any Tribal member? And I will also ask the Lieutenant Governor to comment on this after you finish. 

Ms. HERNANDEZ. Our descendants feel very divided and separated from Tribal members because they are not considered Tribal 

members through the Federal regulations, the minimum of oneeighth. And my daughter, constantly knows that she is a Tribal 

member, that she carries that. She is my daughter. And she sees 

her sisters and her sisters who also participate. But yet her sisters 

can go in and sign in on a different sheet but she has to sign in 

on the other one. 

And that is detrimental to her. To her identity; she does not 

know who she is. She is only eight years old and that is a burden 

that an eight year old should not have. It does not matter her ethnicity. She is a Tribal member and she knows that in her heart, 

but she does not know that in her brain, in her head. She is only 

eight years old. 

Senator UDALL. Yes, very damaging, I am sure. Lieutenant Governor, if you would like to comment on that question? 

Ms. HISA. I sure will. Let me just elaborate on why there is a 

different sign in sheet. Again, because of Federal funding, we have 

reporting requirements and when our Tribal members visit our 

education center, whether it is to use a computer lab, for tutoring, 

they need to sign in on one sheet because that is the funding that 

we need to report on. 

We also ask descendants to sign in because, again, we want to 

keep track of our descendants. And, at the same time, when it 

comes to funding a program, Tribal Council goes through a budgeting process and we want to see the number of descendants taking 

advantage of these services so we can fund accordingly. So, that is 

the purpose. It is not with bad intent but it is something that is 

in place not only in our education center but in our wellness center 

and everywhere else because that is how we need to govern ourselves and operate to be able to keep count of what is going on. 

As Janette mentioned, there is a sense of separation between the 

youth. I also have three daughters and they are considered descendants and they are also asked to sign in on different sheets. 

But when it comes to our ceremonies or our way of life, nobody 

there questions their ethnicity, their blood, where they come from. 

And her daughter is always there. We accept her as part of the 

family, part of the community, as well as my daughters. But when 

they have to go to receive services, they do feel a little hesitant, 

in going, because of that sense of being less Indian than their relatives. 

So it is detrimental to the youth. My children are much older. 

Well, I have an eight year old as well. But I also have an 18 year 

old and a 14 year old, and they struggled through this to where, 

in our summer program, they decided not to participate because of 

that. They would not participate and they limited themselves in 

that way. 

And we do not want her daughter to go through that same thing 

and not be part of the community like the way we want them to 

be, the way we accept them. It is something that is not coming 

from us. It is just a label that has been put upon our youth by the 

22

Federal Government and nothing else. So, we are asking for that 

to be changed. 

Senator UDALL. Lieutenant Governor, basically what you are saying is that this is very isolating to this young individual or others 

in the community. 

Mr. HISA. Yes. 

Senator UDALL. Now, are there, there is obviously her daughter 

and others in the community who do not meet the one-eighth blood 

quantum requirement. Do you have an estimate of how many? 

Mr. HISA. It is approximately over 500. 

Senator UDALL. Okay. 

Mr. HISA. We are still getting, since the bill started moving, we 

have asked parents to bring their children, the information, so we 

can start, just about a year ago we started issuing out descendant 

cards so we can start just getting a true number. So it has over 

500 members right now. 

Senator UDALL. And how does the Pueblo handle providing services for members of your Tribe who do not officially, are not officially enrolled because of the one-eighth blood quantum requirement? How do you handle that? 

Mr. HISA. We, through revenues that the Pueblo generates 

through its operations and businesses, find a way to go ahead and 

try to provide the same level of service to descendants. It is just 

a funding issue that really separates it. 

So, we are not asking the Federal Government for additional 

money. We have managed to operate our programs successfully. So, 

we are just asking for this identity of non-Tribal descendants to be 

taken away and eliminated. 

Senator UDALL. Can you describe for the Committee what H.R. 

1560 would mean for the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo’s capacity for selfgovernance and self-determination? 

Mr. HISA. Yes. We are a sovereign nation. We consider ourselves 

a sovereign nation. We do have government relationships with the 

State of Texas, the City of El Paso, the County of El Paso, the Federal Government as well. So, this is just something in addition to 

what we believe in. We need to be able to govern our people, provide a safe environment and welfare for our community, no matter 

if they are descendants, one-eighth, full-blooded, we all look at our 

Tribal membership as being equal and we want to be able to treat 

everybody the same. 

Senator UDALL. Now, would you expect that H.R. 1560 would result in any major additional costs? I know the issue you raised in 

your testimony. In my understanding, the Congressional Budget 

Office, as far as the cost to the agency, has issued a zero finding 

now. 

Mr. HISA. It will not be an additional cost to the Federal Government and if it is an increase in cost to the Pueblo it is going to be 

a minimal one because we do provide for our descendants as well. 

So once I have a feeling that once this passes and that limitation 

is taken away, we will have more people come and register their 

children freely. It might be an increase in the cost but it is not 

going to be much because, like I said, we do provide services to our 

descendants as we speak. 

23

Senator UDALL. Thank you. And I thank the whole panel today 

for your testimony and I would yield back to the Chairman. Thank 

you. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Senator Udall. We, the 

Committee, will certainly consider these bills. But I want to again 

thank you so much for your being here and your responses. It will 

help us in dealing with these bills. 

I know the Tribal witnesses traveled far to be with us today. 

Your testimony makes it clear how important those pieces of legislation are for your Tribes and your members. 

I look forward to working with my colleagues on the Committee 

to move these bills through the Committee and to this Senate and 

so we will be, as a Committee, working on this now that we have 

had the hearing and we have heard from you. 

So, mahalo, thank you very much for your participation in this 

hearing. 

This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:21 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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