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GLOBAL WARMING EFFECTS ON EXTREME 

WEATHER 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON 

ENERGY INDEPENDENCE 

AND GLOBAL WARMING 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

JULY 10, 2008 

Serial No. 110–43 

( 

Printed for the use of the Select Committee on 

Energy Independence and Global Warming 

globalwarming.house.gov 

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SELECT COMMITTEE ON ENERGY INDEPENDENCE 

AND GLOBAL WARMING 

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts, Chairman 

EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon 

JAY INSLEE, Washington 

JOHN B. LARSON, Connecticut 

HILDA L. SOLIS, California 

STEPHANIE HERSETH SANDLIN, 

South Dakota 

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri 

JOHN J. HALL, New York 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., 

Wisconsin, Ranking Member 

JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona 

GREG WALDEN, Oregon 

CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan 

JOHN SULLIVAN, Oklahoma 

MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee 

PROFESSIONAL STAFF

GERARD J. WALDRON, Staff Director 

ALIYA BRODSKY, Chief Clerk 

THOMAS WEIMER, Minority Staff Director 

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C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hon. Edward J. Markey, a Representative in Congress from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, opening statement .................................................... 1 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 3 

Hon. F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the 

State of Wisconsin, opening statement .............................................................. 5 

Hon. Jay Inslee, a Representative in Congress from the State of Washington, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 6 

Hon. Hilda Solis, a Representative in Congress from the State of California, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 7 

Hon. Marsha Blackburn, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Tennessee, opening statement ............................................................................ 8 

Hon. Jerry McNerney, a Representative in Congress from the State of California, opening statement .................................................................................... 35 

Hon. Greg Walden, a Representative in Congress from the State of Oregon, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 35 

Hon. Emanuel Cleaver II, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Missouri, prepared statement ............................................................................. 37 

WITNESSES

Dr. Jay S. Golden, Director, National Center of Excellence, SMART Innovations for Urban Climate & Energy, Global Institute of Sustainability, Arizona State University .......................................................................................... 38 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 41 

Dan Keppen, Executive Director, Family Farm Alliance ..................................... 53 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 56 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 127 

Heather Cooley, Senior Research Associate Pacific Institute, Water and Sustainability Program .............................................................................................. 69 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 72 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 149 

Angela Licata, Deputy Commissioner, New York City Bureau of Environmental Planning and Analysis ............................................................................ 87 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 90 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 156 

Dr. Jimmy O. Adegoke, Associate Professor University of Missouri, Kansas 

City ........................................................................................................................ 95 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 98 

SUBMITTED MATERIALS

Hon. Marsha Blackburn, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Tennessee, an article in the periodical, Water Resources Research, titled 

‘‘Trends and multidecadal oscillations in rainfall extremes, based on a 

more than 100-year time series of 10 min rainfall intensities at Uccle, 

Belgium.’’ .............................................................................................................. 9 

Hon. Marsha Blackburn, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Tennessee, an article in the periodical, Australia Meteorological Magazine, 

titled ‘‘Southeast Australian thunderstorms: are they increasing in frequency?’’ ................................................................................................................ 24 

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GLOBAL WARMING EFFECTS ON EXTREME 

WEATHER 

THURSDAY, JULY 10, 2008 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ENERGY INDEPENDENCE

AND GLOBAL WARMING, 

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 1:32 p.m., in Room 210, 

Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Edward J. Markey [chairman 

of the committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Markey, Blumenauer, Inslee, Solis, 

Cleaver, Hall, McNerney, Sensenbrenner, Shadegg, Walden, and 

Blackburn. 

Staff present: Ana Unruh Cohen and Stephanie Herring. 

The CHAIRMAN. Welcome. Welcome to all of our guests here today 

at the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global 

Warming and our hearing on ‘‘Global Warming Effects on Extreme 

Weather.’’ This hearing is called to order. 

Global warming is a tale of extremes. It is not enough water; it 

is too much water. It is Californians battling to protect their homes 

from drought-filled wildfires; it is Midwest communities sandbagging levees to hold back the floodwaters. It is public health officials 

protecting the elderly from dangerous heat waves; it is water utilities trying to provide drinking water for a growing population. It 

is farmers trying to cope with not enough water or too much water. 

Certainly floods, droughts and heat waves have always occurred. 

But by loading up the atmosphere with global warming pollution 

we are loading up Mother Nature’s dice for more extreme weather. 

As global warming pollution increases, we are rewriting the book 

on the planet’s weather and climate. In the latest eye-opening reports from the United States Climate Change Science Program, scientists are predicting increases in heat waves, extreme rain and 

drought. And if we do nothing to change the course of these events, 

we may not like the way this story ends. 

Thankfully, this story is not finished. We can still choose how it 

ends. We must take action now to protect the most vulnerable 

amongst us from these extreme weather events. And there are solutions. 

Today we will hear from a panel of experts who understand the 

extreme weather challenges our Nation will face but are also actively working toward solutions to these challenges. Their testimony today will guide us toward a path of increasing our resilience 

to extreme weather. 

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But we cannot simply treat the symptoms and fail to address the 

underlying sickness. As we increase our Nation’s resilience to extreme weather, we must also dramatically reduce our global warming pollution. 

Even with the best preparation, we have too many examples that 

point to our limited ability to cope with extreme weather. We need 

to look no further than the recurring annual death toll from heat 

waves, or to the wildfires that burn millions of acres every year in 

the West, or to the cities that struggle to provide water for their 

growing populations, for their agriculture or for their hydroelectric 

power production. At the same time, extreme precipitation has 

caused the current devastation in the Midwest. 

Perhaps no weather disaster highlights or weakness to climate 

challenges than our inadequate response to Hurricane Katrina, 

which still haunts us several years later. Today we have several 

students in the room who have seen the devastation of extreme 

weather and our Nation’s failure to cope with this devastation firsthand. These participants in the Southeast Climate Witness Program were all displaced by Hurricane Katrina and are now studying the vulnerability of their regions to future storms and climate 

change. 

We thank them for their work and for coming to this hearing 

today. They illustrate that climate change is not just an environmental or economic issue, but it has impacts on real people and 

their communities. 

Global warming will push weather outside the range of what we 

used to know as normal. This also means that old methods of water 

protection will no longer be sufficient to meet the climate challenges for the future. We must protect society’s most vulnerable 

people from the impacts we can no longer avoid, while reducing 

global warming pollution to avoid a climate crisis. It is time for this 

Congress to write climate legislation that will ensure that the next 

chapter of our story is one that protects people and the planet. 

That completes the opening statement of the Chair, and now we 

turn and recognize the ranking member of the select committee, 

the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Sensenbrenner. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Markey follows:] 

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Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Well, thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. 

I heard the imperative of my distinguished chairman from Massachusetts that we have to write this legislation. As I recall reading his press releases and that of the majority party, that was supposed to be passed by July 4th of last year, and we still don’t have 

anything on the calendar. 

All that said, severe weather has imparted humanity since our 

earliest memories. Just ask Noah. Floods, droughts, hurricanes, 

tornados and other natural disasters are something we humans 

have been learning to adapt to throughout time. 

Last month I saw firsthand the effects of severe weather. Wisconsin was among the States hard hit by floods that wreaked havoc 

through much of the Midwest. Thirty Wisconsin counties were declared disaster areas, including all five in my district. The county 

of Waukesha suffered $90 million in damages, and many people 

were homeless because of the flooding. 

Wisconsin has seen many floods, and they often come with summer rains. For better or for worse, it is part of my State’s natural 

meteorological cycle. And while flood waters can’t always be 

stopped, there are ways that people can adapt to these cycles and 

mitigate the damage and harm caused by them. Through technology, planning and management, there are things we can do to 

adapt to weather extremes. 

And if the scientific forecasts are correct, we will have to adapt. 

Projections show that no cut in greenhouse gasses, no matter how 

steep, can stop some warming over the next decade. That is why 

I believe adaptation should be a high priority in confronting climate change. 

While Wisconsin was recently overflowing in water, other parts 

of the country had precious little. And management of these resources will become more important if the temperature continues 

to rise. 

One of our witnesses today, Dan Keppen of the Family Farm Alliance, says farmers in the West are already preparing to adapt to 

a warmer climate. His testimony will also point out the need for 

a balance of both water conservation and supply enhancement, a 

streamlined regulatory process that helps the development of new 

infrastructure, and a prioritization of research needs. I agree and 

welcome him and all of the witnesses here today. 

In discussing priorities, Mr. Keppen pointed out that in California some have projected it will take 2.5 trillion gallons, or 2,500 

billion gallons, of water to produce that State’s goal of a billion gallons of ethanol. Here is another reason to oppose this wasteful fuel 

subsidy and the mandates which were quadrupled in last year’s energy bill. 

These mandates and subsidies are already driving up the cost of 

food and doing nothing to drive down the cost of gasoline. This is 

a waste of water, and we are going to be paying for this micromanagement of this part of our economy for years to come if we 

don’t wake up and see the problems that it causes. 

Adapting to climate change in severe weather will require balance, coordination and prioritization. Through these methods we 

can sometimes help prevent or often worsen the sting of these 

weather events. But sometimes there is nothing we can do but to 

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prepare, and then sometimes even that is not enough, as the people 

of my State learned that last month. 

I yield back the balance of my time. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Washington State, Mr. 

Inslee. 

Mr. INSLEE. Just a couple comments. 

You know, I come from Washington State. We got a little rain 

up in Washington State. And people don’t think Washington State 

is, sort of, an epicenter of extreme events. We don’t have many tornados or hurricanes. But, last year, we had a rain event that, for 

the first time in 135 years, closed Mount Rainier National Park 

and literally destroyed a lot of the places I had grown up with, 

really, really beautiful places. 

I went hiking at a place called Sourdough Mountain last summer, and right in the middle of coming down this mountain is this 

huge gash about 60 feet deep. It looks like somebody took a giant 

knife and just cut a big gash down this mountain where this little, 

teeny, tiny creek had absolutely gone insane in this incredible rain 

event. 

And that kind of rain event is completely consistent with more 

frequent rain events of more intense duration that we expect to see 

in the future. No one can say specifically that that rain event was 

associated with global warming, the science does not allow that, 

but it is something we expect. 

And the reason I mention that is that, when people talk about 

these events, that mountain, Sourdough Mountain, had been there 

for a long, long time. There weren’t gashes like that on that mountain, at least during my lifetime. And I just mention it because this 

is something that hits places even with mild weather, like the 

State of Washington, which has the mildest, dampest, grayest environment in the country. 

The second thing I want to say is that, when we think of extreme 

weather events, we are thinking of extreme in the human sense, 

but there are extreme weather events that can cause enormous differences in the world that are just, like, a half a degree. 

The very small changes of just a few degrees in the Arctic are 

totally changing the entire ecosystem of the Arctic. The Arctic ice 

cap is predicted to be gone in toto by late summer within the next 

several decades. And there is some indication that this year could 

see an 80 percent or plus reduction of the Arctic summer ice cap 

this year. And there was a 70 or 80 percent reduction last year, 

which shocked the scientific community. 

The point I want to make is that relatively small—we wouldn’t 

think of a 3- or 4-degrees Farenheit change as an extreme weather 

event, but in the context of changing whole ecosystems, that is extreme. And I think we have some work to do. 

Thanks. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Shadegg. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing. 

I would like to begin by welcoming Dr. Jay Golden of my home 

State of Arizona to the committee. Dr. Golden is working on a 

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number of exciting projects at Arizona State University dealing 

with innovative renewable energy-generating technologies and energy-reducing materials and surface treatments, among other 

things. I look forward to the testimony of Dr. Golden, as well as 

to that of the other members. 

Examining the effects of a warming climate, regardless of what 

is ultimately determined to be the cause of that warming, is important to our country and very important to my State of Arizona and 

to my city of Phoenix, which sits in a very warm portion of the Nation and is affected and I think is a great example of a heat island. 

I think it is critically important for us at both the local, State and 

national level to identify how these events are brought about and 

how to handle the impacts of these weather-related phenomena. 

As a young boy growing up in Arizona, I can remember the summer weather which would always bring storms to the valley from 

the southeast. It was called the monsoon season, and they would 

bring huge dust storms north. And, in those days, the storms would 

move all the way through the city of Phoenix and pass on to the 

northwest. This is the exact opposite of the weather pattern we 

have in the wintertime, when our storms would come from the 

northwest and move to the southeast. 

Interestingly, over my lifetime, as Phoenix has become a much 

bigger and bigger city, with miles and miles, square mile after 

square mile of concrete and asphalt and tall concrete and glass 

buildings, I believe we have seen a tremendous impact of what I 

would call the heat island effect. And now almost none of those 

storms make their way all the way through the valley and emerge 

on the other side. They tend to hit the valley and go out around 

it. 

I am personally fascinated at how much modern building materials affect that urban environment and can affect these issues. 

And I think it is very important for us to know how to adapt various building materials to accommodate that, maybe not to have 

the heat island effect be as extreme, and also various insulating 

materials. We all know that, for a long time in this country, landlords would build large commercial buildings without properly insulating them or thinking about their energy footprint, recognizing 

they were going to pass on the bill for the operation of that building to somebody else. 

So I think this is important. And while we cannot play God and 

control the weather, we can certainly adapt to it, as we have for 

hundreds of thousands of years. We need to focus our efforts on 

using our available resources as efficiently and as effectively as 

possible. And for that reason, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for holding this hearing. 

And I yield back the balance of my time. 

The CHAIRMAN. Gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from California, Ms. Solis. 

Ms. SOLIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having this hearing. 

Communities across California, as you know, are really feeling 

the climate change. In fact, right now, we are experiencing well 

over 1,700 fires that have been caused in California either by lightning or by human activity. What we need to look at, I believe, is 

that we, as humans, have created a lot of our own problems and 

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we, as humans, have to then create solutions to those problems. So 

I am hoping that we will hear from our witnesses today that they 

can help us address this issue. 

I am very concerned because even in a community like Long 

Beach, which is not too far away from where I live, they are expecting to see that there will be a big dip in their water tables there, 

providing millions of water for individuals, But that is slowly dipping to almost 30 percent. So these are dramatic events that are 

taking place in southern California. 

Last year at this time, we had severe fires, fire storms. We are 

not even in that period right now in California where the Santa 

Ana winds are whipping up. That is going to happen later on, after 

August and September. And we know that we are really overutilizing our resources, and we have to attend to these very, very important issues. 

So I yield back the balance of my time and look forward to hearing from our witnesses. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentlelady’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from Tennessee, who was 

here first. 

Mrs. BLACKBURN. Thank you. I appreciate that, as my colleague 

and I both arrived about the same time. And, Mr. Chairman, I 

thank you for the hearing. 

And I want to welcome our witnesses and thank them for coming 

before us to talk about extreme weather and global warming. And 

everyone agrees that extreme precipitation events are on the rise, 

but the question for many of us is, is this a trend or is it just natural, a natural occurrence? 

And, Mr. Chairman, I have two articles that were published in 

Water Resources Research and the Australian Meteorological Magazine that shed some light on the issue. And I have used them in 

my preparation for today, and I would like to submit those to the 

record. 

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, they will be included. 

[The information follows:] 

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Mrs. BLACKBURN. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

These papers found that the intensity levels were high in some 

years and low in others and a significant increase in the number 

of thunder days, but they concluded that there was nothing unusual about the recent trends. And I look forward to hearing from 

you all on these. The trends could not be attributed to global warming, and most increases weren’t due to climate change. Instead, the 

changes actually stemmed from new observational practices that 

caused artificial trends in climate data. 

And we also have some research on the Tree-Ring from their 

international conference. And we are looking forward to covering 

that with you and hearing from you on these issues again. 

We want to make certain that we have accurate data, that we 

have accurate models, and that we are making the appropriate decisions as we look at the issue. And I thank you all for your time 

and your preparation. 

I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentlelady’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. 

McNerney. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

This hearing is timely, and it is important. I am from northern 

California, north of my colleague from southern California. And we 

are experiencing drought, heat, and excessive fires, massive fires. 

People who live in the district are breathing smoke in 110-degree 

weather. So there is a lot of concern about the future, what that 

means. 

This sort of event is consistent with what I believe global warming will bring California, is deserts claiming territory farther and 

farther north. How is that going to manifest? It is going to manifest by fires, and it is going to manifest by heat and drought. So 

I am concerned, and I want to see that we take the right steps. 

And part of that is understanding exactly what the experts believe is in store for us, so that we can not only prepare, we can 

mitigate, we can adapt, and we make the right decisions in a bipartisan way. So I look forward to your testimony. Thank you for coming today. 

And I yield back. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Oregon, Mr. Walden. 

Mr. WALDEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding this hearing. 

I want to join in here in terms of what climate change may mean 

for those of us from the West. And I think my colleagues from California spoke of the fires that they are unfortunately experiencing. 

And Oregon usually follows California in the fire wave of the season. 

And I think the two things that come to mind are, first of all, 

we know from research data and testimony from the Forest Service 

that our forests are going to be really impacted. If it gets hotter 

and drier and more drought, as you all have talked about, then you 

are going to have more bug infestation, disease and forest fires. 

And our forest fire officials have come to me and—both firefighting officials and forest supervisors—have said, ‘‘Give us the 

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authority you gave us in the Healthy Forest Restoration Act,’’ 

which has worked well around our wildland urban interfaces. Let 

us do that out in the condition class 2 and 3 lands that are most 

out of whack with balance and nature, so we can get ahead of this 

a bit, get those forests thinned, so that they can be more adaptive 

to the change in climate and be able to exist the wildfire that we 

know will come, because it will be thinned out, you won’t have the 

ladder fuels, and therefore fire will act like it used to act before we 

suppressed fire. 

Secondly, the issue that I think that we all in the West, especially the arid West, need to be cognizant of is that if it is going 

to be drier, then we need to look at how we manage water and especially how we store water. Because if the snow packs do recede— 

although, this year, we seem to have had an abundance of snow, 

which was nice, especially for those of us who are skiers—but if we 

are going to see a reduction in snow pack, then we need to focus 

on how you do off-stream storage, how you do additional storage of 

water, and how we allocate that in an appropriate way, how we 

best manage our water. 

We are going to get some great testimony, I think, today from 

Dan Keppen, who I will introduce later, on this topic and on others. 

So I think there are things that Congress could do to change the 

law that would help on water management, storage, forest health 

and survivability of our forest, reducing greenhouse gas emissions, 

and reducing the threat of fire. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman’s time has expired. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Cleaver follows:] 

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The Chair will now recognize the gentleman from Arizona for the 

purposes of introducing our first witness. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

We are very pleased to have in the Maricopa County area in 

Phoenix, Arizona, Arizona State University, a recognized excellence 

center in higher education. And I have relied on them many times 

this year for expertise and advice on issues confronting the Congress. 

I am pleased to welcome, as I mentioned earlier today, Dr. Jay 

S. Golden. Dr. Golden has a wide background, not just from academia. He has served as an environmental crimes detective. He 

served as regional operations vice president for a Fortune 500 company. He established his own multi-State environmental and engineering firm, and then returned and received his Ph.D. in engineering from the University of Cambridge and a master’s degree in 

environmental engineering and sustainable development from the 

Cambridge-MIT Institute. 

He currently serves as an assistant professor in the School of 

Sustainability, an affiliate of the Civil and Environmental Engineering Department at Arizona State University. He founded and 

serves as the director of the National Center of Excellence on 

SMART Innovations for Urban Climate and Energy. 

His research is focused on the climate-energy nexus, including 

quantifying and developing mitigation strategies that address the 

resulting environmental, human health, energy and economic impacts. 

He was appointed to the United Nations Life Cycle Management 

Task Force. And, finally, he directs the Sustainability Energy Fellowship, which educates some of our most exceptional students in 

environmental and energy and sustainability issues. 

Dr. Golden, we welcome you here to the committee. 

STATEMENT OF JAY S. GOLDEN, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CENTER OF EXCELLENCE, SMART INNOVATIONS FOR URBAN 

CLIMATE AND ENERGY, GLOBAL INSTITUTE OF SUSTAINABILITY, ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY 

Mr. GOLDEN. Congressman Shadegg, I thank you for that introduction. 

Mr. Chairman, Congressman Sensenbrenner and other members 

of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to address you on 

these important issues. 

The national center which I direct supports local and regional 

agencies to develop strategies to reduce vulnerability and risk associated with extreme weather events. We focus on heat waves, the 

urban heat island effect, and the relationship to reliable electricity 

delivery. 

First allow me to present some driving factors behind our research and why I believe greater Federal action needs to be taken 

to support State, regional and local governments as they seek to 

protect our national security. 

Factor number one is more people in the United States die from 

heat-related events than all other weather-related phenomena combined. That is, more Americans die each year from extreme heat 

than lightning, hurricanes, tornadoes and floods combined. 

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Factor number two, global climate change, which will increase 

human health vulnerability as more frequent and extreme weather 

events, including heat waves, impact our country. In their 2008 report, the U.S. Climate Change Science Program concluded that abnormally hot days and nights and heat waves are very likely to be 

more frequent. Additionally, since the record hot year of 1998, 6 of 

the last 10 years have had annual average temperatures that fall 

in the hottest 10 percent of all years recorded in history for the 

United States. 

Factor number three is the urban heat island effect. Over half of 

our planet’s population now lives in cities, up 30 percent from 50 

years ago. In 2000, more than 8 out of 10 Americans lived in metropolitan areas. With increased population comes rapid change in 

our land cover and an increased use of engineered materials for our 

buildings. These retain our heat in our cities, contributing to the 

urban heat island effect. 

As an example of the urban heat island effect, the average annual temperatures in the combined urban-rural areas of Phoenix, 

Arizona, have increased 3.1 degrees Fahrenheit during the 20th 

century. However, mean annual temperatures in just the urban 

portions of our region have increased 7.6 degrees Fahrenheit. 

Factor four, a vulnerable electrical system. In the United States, 

parts of our electrical delivery capability are at increasing risk of 

failure. Urban heat islands and heat waves are almost certain to 

cause increased demand. By 2025, U.S. electricity consumption is 

projected to grow by 50 percent over 2003 levels. To meet this rising demand, an equivalent to almost 950 new power plants of 300 

megawatts each will be needed. 

The primary means of adaptation to climate change is mechanical cooling, air-conditioning. The greater the demand, the more 

fragile our system becomes, as older units fail due to mechanical 

breakdowns and its heavily laden power lines stretch and sag from 

heat. 

My recommendations: Action number one, develop a stronger and 

more integrated urban research focus. Because no one mission 

agency in the Federal Government has responsibility for all the 

components of a city, no government body is funding research that 

looks at how all the parts fit together. Who will synthesize all this 

information to a model or models that incorporate as much data as 

possible? Fundamentally, Congress should direct agencies and the 

NRC to look for ways to create synergistic urban research programs. 

Number two, a dedicated urban satellite system. Remote sensing 

from space can and needs to play a vital role in protecting human 

health and the environment from climate change, urban heat islands, and failures of electrical power systems. Scientists continue 

to develop and refine very complex predictive models to gain a 

greater understanding of urban and global climate change. However, the current dedicated satellite system that provides the basis 

for our ability to prevent human harmful impacts is in jeopardy of 

phase-out, abandonment and/or failure. 

Action item number three, streamline and enhance electricity 

interruption reporting requirements. We lack an effective and consistent national-level program that examines the interactions of the 

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built environment, climate and safe electricity delivery for our cities, let alone an effective way to track outages. At best, our current 

system can be considered confusing and less than adequate. We 

need to increase our understanding of electricity outages of different scales. In short, we need a new, comprehensive and rational 

power outage reporting system. 

Finally, I strongly urge this committee and Congress to support 

the development of a report to all appropriate committees of Congress on the issues of heat waves, urban heat islands, and human 

health vulnerability. 

The proactive effort will provide Congress greater insights and 

multi-stakeholder recommendations on three primary topics: identify existing and emerging needs of local and regional governments 

to prepare and respond to human health vulnerability resulting 

from heat waves, urban heat island effect, climate change, and 

power outages; number two, examine the roles and capabilities of 

Federal agencies to support local and regional governments and 

suggest programs to improve these capabilities; finally, provide recommendations for future research initiatives that can reduce vulnerability and improve our national security. 

I strongly caution that the timing of such an effort must be immediate. By waiting and not addressing these issues in the present 

day, we risk our population and our national security today and 

into the future. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Golden follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Dr. Golden. 

Now I am going to recognize Congresesman Walden. 

Mr. WALDEN. Thank you for that courtesy, Mr. Chairman. 

And I want to welcome Dan Keppen, who is a good friend and 

one of the West’s finest advocates for family farmers and ranchers. 

He is a fellow Oregonian. Dan resides in Klamath County, which 

is in the southern part of the district I have the honor of representing. And Dan has, for the last 3 years, served as the executive director of the Family Farm Alliance, which is a grassroots 

farmer advocacy group that aims to ensure the availability of reliable and affordable water for irrigation in the West. 

Before joining the Family Farm Alliance in 2005, Dan served 3 

years as the executive director of the Klamath Water Users Association, where I worked closely with him on one of the West’s most 

prominent and challenging water management issues, the Klamath 

Reclamation Project. 

And if anyone can speak with authority about the importance of 

water in the West for farms and families and communities, it is 

Dan Keppen. After all, few people were more involved in helping 

find solutions in the 2001 water cutoff in the Klamath Basin than 

Dan. He is a real expert on water and farm issues, knows full well 

the impacts that a change in the weather can have on those who 

make their living from the land. 

From 2000 to 2001, Dan served as the special assistant to the 

Bureau of Reclamation’s Mid-Pacific regional director in Sacramento, where he advised and assisted with planning, managing, 

directing and coordinating a variety of reclamations water management activities. 

He received his master of science degree in civil engineering from 

Oregon State University and a bachelor of science degree from the 

University of Wyoming. 

It is my pleasure to welcome before the committee Dan Keppen. 

And I look forward to his testimony and that of the other witnesses. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

STATEMENT OF DAN KEPPEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FAMILY 

FARM ALLIANCE 

Mr. KEPPEN. Thank you, Mr. Walden and Chairman Markey and 

members of the select committee. I appreciate this opportunity to 

testify today. 

Again, my name is Dan Keppen. I am the executive director of 

the Family Farm Alliance. World headquarters in Klamath Falls, 

Oregon. We represent irrigators in all 17 western States. We are 

also committed to the fundamental proposition that western irrigated agricultural must be preserved and protected for a host of 

reasons, many of which are often overlooked in the context of other 

policy decisions. 

The topic of this oversight hearing is not only important to the 

alliance, it is also relevant to water users, farmers, ranchers and 

small communities all over the western United States. 

My board of directors in 2007 made climate change a priority 

issue for our organization to engage in. And last year we released 

a report entitled, ‘‘Water Supply in a Changing Climate: The PerWReier-Aviles on DSKGBLS3C1PROD with HEARING

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spective of Family Farmers and Rancher in the Irrigated West.’’ I 

would like to respectfully submit this to be included in the hearing 

record today. 

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection. 

Mr. KEPPEN. Thank you. 

Our report shows that climate change could further strain fresh 

water supplies in the American West. It provides several examples 

of studies that focus on specific regions or watersheds in the West, 

and they indicate that, for the most part, from the Colorado River 

Basin to the Pacific Northwest to the Central Valley of California, 

climate change has and will continue to impact water supplies and 

the users dependent on those supplies in the future. 

The Western Governors’ Association has developed findings that 

are consistent with our examples of climate impact to water supplies across the West, as reported in our document. In general, 

Western Governors predicts four general predictions: smaller snow 

packs and earlier snowmelt; more rain than snow; extreme flood 

events which could be more common and become larger; and 

droughts and higher temperatures which could be more intense, 

frequent and last longer, which will obviously have an impact on 

irrigators. 

In some areas, western water supplies are already challenged by 

the demands of agriculture, urban growth and environmental enhancement. Global climate change, we are told, will further reduce 

those supplies. 

So how will we meet the ever-increasing demand for water in the 

West in an era when there will be an ever-decreasing supply? We 

recommend an adaptive approach, as well, to dealing with the uncertainties of climate change. Even if current efforts to mitigate for 

greenhouse gas emissions are successful, the climate is still predicted to warm considerably over the next several decades, which 

will have impacts on water supplies and water users. 

Improved conservation and efficiency by urban and agricultural 

water users is certainly part of the solution, but only one part. We 

must begin to implement a balanced suite of both conservation and 

supply-enhancement actions. Conservation alone will not supply 

enough water for the tens of millions of existing and new residents 

expected to live in western cities during the coming decades. We 

believe it is possible to meet the needs of cities and the environment in a changing climate without sacrificing western irrigated 

agriculture. 

It is time to start developing and implementing the water infrastructure needed to cope with the changing climate, meet the needs 

of a growing population, protect our environment, and support a 

healthy agricultural base in the West. We need to streamline the 

often slow and cumbersome Federal regulatory process to improve, 

modernize and expand our water infrastructure. Finally, we must 

prioritize our research needs to accomplish useful studies that inform water managers and their users of key actions that must be 

accomplished to deal with the changing climate. 

My boss, president of the board for the alliance, is Patrick 

O’Toole, a rancher from Wyoming. He testified before the Senate 

Energy and Natural Resources Committee last year on S. 2156, the 

Secure Water Act, sponsored by Senators Bingaman and Domenici. 

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This bill includes water science initiatives, water-efficiency programs, and additional actions that will help us adapt to the waterrelated impacts of global climate change. 

These provisions closely matched similar recommendations made 

in the report that we developed. While there is not currently a companion bill introduced in the House, we would encourage the House 

to take up a similar bill to help speed its enactment into law. 

We believe change of climate will further strain freshwater supplies in the American West. We must begin to plan for that now 

and not wait until we are forced to make decisions during a crisis. 

Now is the time to enact sound policies and encourage continued 

investment in irrigated agriculture. 

Reallocating farmers’ water supplies will diminish domestic food 

production at exactly the same time global warming is predicted to 

severely adversely impact food production worldwide. Relying on 

agriculture to be a shock-absorber to soften or eliminate the impending water shortage is not planning. It is an easy fix that carries with it enormous consequences to our society and our Nation. 

While much of the debate surrounding what to do about climate 

change is centered on mitigation for greenhouse gas emissions, we 

believe that climate change policies for irrigated agriculture in the 

future need to address adaptive approaches that prepare for the 

worst-case scenarios predicted for western watersheds. 

Thank you for this opportunity to appear before the committee 

again, and I would happy to answer any questions you might have. 

[The statement of Mr. Keppen follows:] 

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Ms. SOLIS [presiding]. Thank you. 

Our next witness is Heather Cooley. 

Heather Cooley is a senior research associate with the Pacific Institute Water and Sustainability Program. At the institute, her research involves water privatization, California water issues and environmental justice, and climate change. 

Prior to the institute, she worked at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, where she studied climate and land-use change in carbon 

cycling. She has published a book on freshwater resources, ranging 

on issues from floods and droughts to impacts on businesses and 

ecosystems, and has testified before the State of California regarding management of freshwater resources. 

She holds a bachelor of science in molecular environmental biology, with an emphasis in ecology, from UC-Berkley and an MS in 

energy and resources from UC-Berkley. 

Welcome, and thank you for coming, Ms. Cooley. 

STATEMENT OF HEATHER COOLEY, SENIOR RESEARCH 

ASSOCIATE, PACIFIC INSTITUTE 

Ms. COOLEY. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman and members of committee, thank you for inviting 

me to offer testimony on the growing risk to the Nation from extreme weather events as a result of climatic change. I will limit my 

discussion here to floods and droughts and how we can adapt to 

these changes, but my written testimony expands on a broader 

range of risks and responses. 

Floods and droughts have dominated the headlines in papers 

across the United States in recent months. Floods along the Mississippi River and its tributaries have devastated communities 

throughout the Midwest. Drought conditions are prevailing across 

large parts of the United States. And, in California, drought conditions have spawned nearly 2,000 fires since late June in what may 

turn out to be one of the worst fire seasons on record. 

Yet most the discussion about climate change has focused on average conditions. But the Nation is far more vulnerable to extreme 

events like those we are experiencing throughout the country 

today. These extreme events have the largest social, economic and 

environmental impacts. They kill and injure the most people, and 

they cause the most damage to our economy and environment. 

Scientists are increasingly investigating the risks of these extreme events. And, in short, they conclude we are loading the dice 

in favor of the increase in severe events. And the Nation’s water 

resources appear to be most at risk. 

In particular, research now shows that warmer temperatures will 

intensify the hydrologic cycle, leading to greater climate variability 

and, unfortunately, an increase in the risk of both floods and 

droughts. 

The idea that both floods and droughts may increase may seem 

counterintuitive to some. But let me provide an example that is 

particularly relevant to the West to illustrate this point. 

In the West, snowfall and snowmelt are critical for water supply. 

The research indicates that warmer temperatures will raise the 

snow line in mountainous regions, causing more precipitation to 

fall as rain rather than snow, and thereby increasing the likelihood 

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of winter floods. To make matters worse, these higher temperatures will lead to an earlier and faster snowmelt, increasing the 

likelihood of droughts and water shortages during the summer 

months when our farms and cities need water the most. 

But what can we do about these growing risks? Impacts associated with climate change are now unavoidable, but that doesn’t 

mean we are helpless. Let me touch on a few options that my written testimony describes in much greater detail. 

First, smarter flood plain management. In the past, we have relied heavily on levees for flood protection, but these measures can 

often give a false sense of security, encouraging development and 

putting more lives and people at risk. 

The 1994 Galloway report from General Galloway and the Army 

Corps of Engineers strongly called for a new approach, one based 

on, and I quote, ‘‘avoiding the risks to the flood plain, minimizing 

the impact of these risks when they cannot be avoided, mitigating 

the impacts of damages when they occur, and accomplishing the 

above in a manner that concurrently protects and enhances the 

natural environment.’’ 

Second, we must develop new alternative supplies. Recycled 

water, for example, can be used for a wide range of purposes, from 

agricultural and landscape irrigation to power plant cooling and 

groundwater recharge. Agencies throughout the West are beginning 

to pursue recycled water, but we need to encourage this transition. 

In addition, better groundwater management would allow us to 

restore excess surface water, including storm water, and groundwater aquifers during wet years for later use in dry years. In the 

past, we often looked at storm water as a liability and sought to 

get it out of our cities as quickly as possible. But now communities 

are realizing that this is an asset, that we can then recharge our 

groundwater and use it again when we need it. 

And, finally, water conservation and efficiency offers enormous 

potential for reducing water pressures on water supply and must 

be central to any effort to adapt to climate change. 

We have made some remarkable achievements in the past 25 

years, and as the figures on page 11 of my written testimony indicate, total water use in the Nation has actually declined, despite 

continued economic and population growth. 

But much more potential to improve the efficiency of water use 

remains. Work we have done at the Pacific Institute indicates that 

the urban sector could reduce its water use by a third at lower cost 

than new supply. And that is in California, where very already 

done quite a bit, but there is still a tremendous amount available. 

There is also potential for the agricultural sector. 

These efficiency improvements can also help us reduce the impacts of climate change. Capturing, treating, transporting, and 

using water require large amounts of energy. In California alone, 

an estimated 19 percent of the electricity used, 32 percent of the 

natural gas and 88 million gallons of diesel fuel consumption are 

water-related. Thus, conservation and efficiency improvements can 

also save energy, thereby reducing our greenhouse gas emissions. 

Furthermore, a recent analysis from the California Energy Commission found that energy can be saved through water conservation 

at lower cost than through traditional energy-efficiency measures. 

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In closing, I would like to urge members of the committee to take 

action now. Waiting another 5 to 10 years will only make solving 

these problems more difficult and costly. Furthermore, all of the 

options I discussed—smarter flood plain management, better 

groundwater management, recycled water, and conservation— 

makes sense under today’s climate conditions and can help reduce 

current pressures on our water system. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Ms. Cooley follows:] 

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Mr. HALL [presiding]. Thank you. 

Our next witness is from my home State, Ms. Angela Licata, who 

serves as deputy commissioner for the New York City Department 

of Environmental Protection and director of the Bureau of Environmental Planning and Analysis. 

She has worked in NYCDP for over 20 years. As deputy commissioner, she oversees climate change issues for the agency, the development of a watershed and sewershed program for Jamaica Bay, 

storm water management planning, natural resource planning, and 

sewer infrastructure planning as it relates to new growth stimulated by rezoning throughout the city. 

She is also an expert in environmental planning assessment and 

negotiates complex land-use and permitting issues. 

Ms. Licata, you are now recognized. 

STATEMENT OF ANGELA LICATA, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, 

NEW YORK CITY BUREAU OF ENVIRONMENTAL PLANNING 

AND ANALYSIS, DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION 

Ms. LICATA. Good afternoon, members of the committee. I am Angela Licata, deputy commissioner with New York City’s Department of Environmental Protection. On behalf of Commissioner 

Emily Lloyd, thank you for the opportunity to speak before your 

committee today. 

Climate change certainly raises serious challenges to the future 

of New York City’s water supply delivery, storm water management, and wastewater treatment system. In 2007, Mayor Michael 

Bloomberg released PlaNYC. This is a comprehensive, sustainable 

urban plan for New York City that includes 127 initiatives to create a greener, more sustainable city. 

One of the key challenges addressed by PlaNYC is global climate 

change. In May of 2008, DEP released the first report of its ‘‘Climate Change Assessment and Action Plan,’’ detailing the extensive 

work that DEP has undertaken to better understand and plan for 

the potential impacts of climate change on the city’s water and 

sewer systems. 

I am submitting the report to the committee for its consideration. 

The report outlines specific steps that DEP has taken to, one, refine climate change projections for the city of New York; two, better 

quantify risks to existing systems; three, integrate climate change 

data into current design for new projects; four, develop adaptation 

strategies for critical infrastructure. 

Adequate funding for ongoing research in the short term and for 

capital investments in infrastructure upgrades in the long term is 

crucial to our ability to adapt to a changing climate. 

Customized climate change projections performed for DEP by Columbia University’s Center for Climate Systems Research and 

NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies indicates that, by 

2050, New York City and its watershed region will experience a 3- 

to 5-degree Fahrenheit rise in temperature, a 2.5 to 7.5 percent increase in precipitation, and a 6- to 12-inch rise in sea level. It is 

projected that these conditions will be even more pronounced by 

the year 2080. 

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Without proper planning and extensive adaptations, this degree 

of climate change could have a significant effect on the city’s drinking water quality and supply. 

Preliminary analysis indicates that rising temperatures could extend the growing season, exaggerate the frequency and severity of 

droughts, and heat waves will likely change the ecology of our watershed. Rising temperatures, coupled with heavier participation, 

could wash additional nutrients and particles into water supply 

reservoirs, thereby increasing turbidity and eutrophication levels, 

thus compromising the viability of New York City’s currently 

unfiltered drinking water system. 

Increased precipitation could also overwhelm storm water drainage systems, wastewater treatment facilities, and sewer infrastructure. Rising seas, coupled with storm surges, pose a threat to our 

coastal wastewater treatment facilities. 

Recently, in fact, an observed increase in the frequency of severe 

rainfall events, which may be evidence of changing climate conditions, is alarming and unprecedented in the written record. In 

2007, for example, on April 15th, 17 inches of rain were recorded 

in Upper Manhattan, the largest daily accumulation since 1882. On 

July 18th, 2007, between 3 and 5 inches of rain were recorded at 

locations across the city within a 4-hour period. In some areas, 3 

inches of rain fell in 1 hour. And on August 8th, 2007, between 1.4 

and 3.5 inches of rain were recorded within a 2-hour period. 

Our current storm water conveyance system is designed only for 

1.75 inches of rainfall per hour, given that the rate of return from 

much larger storms has historically occurred very infrequently. 

Climate change is a complex emerging issue. The timing and extent of change are uncertain, and modifying large-scale infrastructure systems is expensive and takes time. But with sufficient support, we can develop and implement strategies that will help ensure the long-term viability of our drinking water and wastewater 

systems. 

Working in concert with PlaNYC, Mayor Bloomberg’s comprehensive urban sustainability initiative, DEP is already planning for 

the diversification of New York City’s drinking water supply by increasing the interconnectivity and flexibility of our systems. We are 

also developing aggressive conservation programs, increasing water 

supply protection measures through a robust land acquisition program within our watershed, and building new drinking water quality infrastructure. 

In another step forward, New York City DEP has also joined 

with water providers serving seven of the country’s major metropolitan areas to form the Water Utility Climate Alliance. Working 

together, we aim to foster research aimed at advancing climate 

science and to develop more robust decision support frameworks. 

This alliance recognizes the importance of Federal partnerships in 

this endeavor. 

DEP’s 10-year capital program budget is intended to fund infrastructure investments on a 50-year time scale. 

The CHAIRMAN [presiding]. Could you summarize, please? 

Ms. LICATA. Yes. 

Integrating climate change projections with departmental planning will help ensure that the city’s water and wastewater systems 

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are more resilient and better prepared to withstand the volatile 

conditions of a changing climate. 

Once again, I thank you for the opportunity. 

[The statement of Ms. Licata follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

And Mr. Cleaver will be recognized to introduce our final witness. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

It is with great pride and pleasure that I introduce Jimmy 

Adegoke, who was an associate professor in the Department of Geosciences at the University of Missouri in Kansas City, UM-KC, in 

the city where I reside. 

He studied the role that land surfaces play in driving weather 

and climate change. And Dr. Adegoke’s research also looks at linkages and feedback between the processes that impact air quality 

and heat stress in changing urban environments. 

And as a member of the Geosciences Department, he was recently invited to serve on the advisory committee of remote sensing 

experts to assist the United Nations program in assessing various 

country-level projects in ecosystem and water management in different African countries. 

He has a BS, he has an MS in climatology, he has a Ph.D. in 

satellite climatology from Penn State, and was awarded the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration postdoctoral fellowship in regional climate modeling. 

We are very, very proud of him in Kansas City and pleased to 

have him present to this committee. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is great. 

Welcome, sir. 

STATEMENT OF JIMMY O. ADEGOKE, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, 

UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI 

Mr. ADEGOKE. I would like to thank Chairman Markey and 

Ranking Member Sensenbrenner and all the members of the select 

committee for this opportunity to appear before you and address 

the energy and environmental challenges facing our Nation, climate variability and climate change, in particular focusing on the 

Midwest region. 

I would like to thank Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, who is my 

representative, for his service on this important select committee 

and his guidance locally. 

The United States Midwest is one of the most agriculturally productive areas or regions in the world. It supports a wide range of 

agro businesses and industrial manufacturing complexes that are 

economically vital to the United States. 

This region is also susceptible to substantial interannual and 

interdecadal variations in summer climate. Frequent severe 

droughts and devastating floods are features of the extreme warm 

season climate anomalies that affect much of the central U.S. The 

drought of 1988, for instance, the flood of 1993, resulted in an estimated $52 billion lost in farm and property damage in the Midwest. 

The last two summers, 2007 and 2008, have been especially devastating for us for large swaths of the Midwest due to the backto-back floods that have destroyed thousands of acres of prime 

farmland in several States and submerged whole communities. The 

losses sustained from just these two last flood events alone undoubtedly will run into tens of billions of dollars. 

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The financial impact of the current flood is exacerbated by the 

fact that many property owners in the worst-hit areas lack flood insurance, because they live in areas deemed ‘‘500-year flood plains,’’ 

where mortgage banks do not require flood insurance. Furthermore, it has been reported that many communities in Wisconsin 

and Iowa and Missouri either dropped out or never even participated in the federally funded Flood Insurance Program for the 

same reason. This makes residents in these communities ineligible 

for Federal aid under the existing rules for the National Flood Insurance Program. 

So against this backdrop, the decision of the chairman of this 

committee to hold this hearing is both timely and highly commendable. 

My written testimony, which has been submitted for the record, 

contains an overview of the evidence that supports the view, the 

scientific evidence that supports the view that we are indeed in a 

regime of enhanced climate variability. We are already there. We 

are not looking for a changing climate anymore. We are in a regime 

of enhanced climate variability. 

That testimony also discusses what are the implications of these 

current and the future changes that we expect on the Midwest, 

using what I advocate as a vulnerability framework. And I also 

offer some thoughts on strategies for mitigating and managing 

those risks. 

This committee has been addressed by several of my colleagues 

at this table on what the current state is and the fact that evidence 

has accumulated to show that the climate is changing and will continue to change. Now, the trend in the U.S. follows exactly what 

we know from global assessments. And the trend in both temperature and precipitation in the Midwest, in particular, they reflect 

these same national trends with some regional variations. 

For example, we know that the northern Midwest has warmed 

by almost 4 degrees Fahrenheit, while the southern Midwest, especially in the Ohio Valley Region, has cooled by a little less than 1 

degree Fahrenheit. Annual precipitation has increased by over 26 

percent in some areas, with most of this increase coming from periods of heavy rainfall. So our climate has already changed in the 

Midwest. 

Now, the evidence available to us from climate model projections 

suggests that these trends will continue and will, in fact, accelerate 

in a warming world. Higher temperatures will increase the waterholding capacity of the atmosphere and encourage greater evaporation, resulting in conditions that favor increased climate variability. And with more intense precipitation and more droughts, we 

can also expect increased frequency and severity of heat waves and 

greater potential for reduced air quality in urban areas. 

Now, these projections are a result of—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Adegoke, if you could wrap up, please. We 

will have questions. 

Mr. ADEGOKE. Now, these projections are the result of climate 

models. And our contention is that, while this gives us a direction 

to go forward, we need to begin to address these issues, in particular from a vulnerability perspective. We are already vulnerable, 

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ened and new mitigation strategies developed to address our risks 

and vulnerabilities in these various sectors. 

[The statement of Mr. Adegoke follows:] 

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The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Dr. Adegoke. We much appreciate it. 

There are four roll-calls that are going to be conducted out on the 

House floor. There are 11 minutes to go before that roll-call. What 

I thought I could do is recognize the gentleman from Washington 

State for a round of questions. And then if Mr. Inslee would do 

that, recognize then Mr. Shadegg, so that we can have a bipartisan 

questioning. And then we will come back and continue to question. 

Mr. INSLEE. Thank you. 

Mr. Keppen, I used to live in Yakima, Washington, have a lot of 

experience with the irrigation community and, I think, know the 

stresses that you are under. 

Has your group taken a look at the issue of a cap-and-trade system to try to actually limit the amount of warming that we experience and climatic change that we experience? 

Mr. KEPPEN. Basically our mission statement is focused completely on, you know, water and water issues. And so, as a board, 

we have not dealt with that. 

Personally, I am on Governor Kulongoski’s Climate Change Integration Group in Oregon, and that is an issue that is being discussed there. 

I think agriculture definitely needs to be involved, from a personal standpoint. But, as an organization, we haven’t taken a position. 

Mr. INSLEE. Well, I would encourage you to think about that and 

become engaged in that discussion. And the reason I say that is 

that ag, I think, has probably got as much at risk as any other sector of our community. And knowing how fragile our irrigation system is in eastern Oregon and eastern Washington, how we are always on the edge—it could be pushed over by reductions in our 

snow pack and just dry years—we need your leadership and we 

need your engagement in this issue as a community. 

So I hope that your organization will think not just about adaptation and accepting this change, but, in fact, trying to slow it 

down. And there is a whole variety of ways to do that, through research of new clean energy technology, some of which is going to 

benefit ag, a cap-and-trade system. 

I just hope your organization will look at some of these issues 

and help us design an effort to slow down global warming as well 

as adapt to it. 

Mr. KEPPEN. Well, thanks for that input. I will pass it on to my 

board. 

Mr. INSLEE. We would love to hear from you. 

And that is my only comment. Thank you very much. 

The CHAIRMAN. Great. 

The gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Shadegg. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Cooley, I want to begin with you. I strongly share your interest in water and in conserving water. In Arizona, we began a very 

aggressive program toward groundwater storage and restricting the 

use of groundwater but also recharging our water table. I guess I 

am interested in some innovative ideas from you briefly on that 

topic. 

But also, I recently built a home, and I very seriously considered 

a gray-water system. I didn’t put it in, and I now regret that. I am 

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interested in your thoughts on how widespread that technology is 

for the use. Should we be splitting wastewater, as it comes out of 

our houses, into a gray-water/black-water dichotomy? And how 

soon can we do that and have it reduce our reliance on water? 

And then I have some questions for Dr. Golden. 

Ms. COOLEY. Your first question was on groundwater banking 

and what actions we can do to encourage and incentivize that, is 

that correct? 

Mr. SHADEGG. Yes. 

Ms. COOLEY. There are number of things we can do. 

One of the additional benefits which I didn’t talk a bit about was 

on the issue of storm water. Much of the storm water runoff is really what is polluting our rivers and streams. And so, capturing that 

and finding ways and developing ways in which we encourage and 

basically pursue low-impact development to encourage infiltration 

of that water can also provide not only a water-supply but a waterquality benefit. 

And so, in terms of actions that can be done, ensuring that all 

new development does integrate those principles I think is one of 

the first things we need to do, and also encourage that development doesn’t occur on some of our most important recharge areas. 

Mr. SHADEGG. In the Southwest, we have huge, sudden storms, 

and we lose all that water. And it is tragic. I don’t think we can 

go on doing that. 

What about gray-water systems? 

Ms. COOLEY. Gray-water systems, I always get asked about that. 

It is a very interesting topic. Some areas in some regions have regulations against it, and that is something that we need to, kind of, 

standardize and systemize so that there is some consistency, even 

within a given State. 

I think in new development it makes a lot of sense. Retrofitting 

existing developments can be expensive. And then there are other 

things that we could do at lower costs, such as taking out turf and 

putting in low-water-use landscapes and those kinds of things. 

There is plenty of beautiful landscape that is well-adapted to the 

desert that not only reduces water use, also reduces fertilizers, pesticide, and provides habitat for local species. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Yeah, but some of us, though, believe that all that 

green grass reduces the temperature where we live. I happen to 

live where there is a lot of green grass, and I can show you the 

drop in the thermometer in my car as I drive into my neighborhood. So I would rather clean my gray water and water my grass, 

if I could. But I would want to clean my gray water. 

Dr. Golden, I would like to ask you two questions in the limited 

time I have. One is, I am interested in your testimony on the point 

that the average temperature, I believe you testified, in the Phoenix area had come down 3.1 degrees, but in the urban portion of 

the metropolitan area, or of the county—I am sorry, it had gone up 

3.1 degrees, but in the urban area it had gone up by 7.6 degrees. 

Can you explain that and maybe, at the same time, give us some 

examples of the practical application of your research and perhaps 

also of the kinds of materials we might be able to be using in the 

future that would be more advantageous than materials we have 

been using in the past without thinking about the issues? 

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Mr. GOLDEN. Certainly. So, Congressman, if we had a graph of 

the tremendous population increase in Maricopa County, Phoenix 

now being the fourth-largest city in the United States and the suburb of Mesa larger than most cities in the United States, we would 

track the same type of delta-T, the temperature difference between 

the urban and rural area. 

And while it is true that the temperature has gone up 7.6 degrees Fahrenheit, if we look at the temperature difference between 

an unchanged—and it is very easy to do in Arizona at Casa Grande 

National Monument—in comparison to where Phoenix temperature 

recordings have been done, we are now almost 14 degrees Fahrenheit warmer at night than our rural counterparts. 

And as we see the population increase, we see that temperature 

difference increase. Basically, we remove our native vegetation, 

whether it is cactus or trees or other grass, and we replace that 

with engineered materials—buildings, concrete, asphalt. And those 

have a different thermodynamic process. In short, they are darker, 

they absorb the heat. And, high school physics, when you cover 

these buildings, you can’t reradiate, long-wave radiation, so they 

don’t cool off quickly. And so we have this urban heat island effect. 

So, for cities, there are quite a few things they could look at and 

we are looking at. If we were fortunate enough to fly in the Goodyear Blimp, we would look down at Phoenix and we would see 

about 40 percent, the largest component for most western State cities, is comprised of paved services—driveways, parking lots, et 

cetera. 

The idea of incorporating smart water, wastewater issues, pervious concrete, pervious asphalt, on paved services that can retain 

the storm water and use it for beneficial reuse to sustain trees, 

which, as we know, are a lot cooler, can help mitigate the urban 

heat island effect, and also offset carbon emissions, as well, by sequestration. 

A new generation of surface treatments that can reflect while 

you still can have the same colors. There is a new generation of 

building materials. In certain climates, green roofs are appropriate. 

So there are quite a few things that can be done. 

I would mention that the U.S. EPA Heat Island Reduction Initiative does provide a clearinghouse for a lot of these initiatives. 

Mr. SHADEGG. I noticed that you have been a consultant to our 

mayor, and our mayor and our local paper have talked a lot about 

the fact that we have cut down all the trees in the city of Phoenix 

and there are very few shaded areas. And if you don’t have shade 

and you are outside in the summer in Arizona, you are in trouble. 

We passed legislation at the State legislative level to repaint the 

tops of all of our buses white. So we are thinking about this stuff 

a little bit, but we are thinking about it late. It seems to me it is 

something we have to incorporate into our thinking. 

It is pretty clear that the building materials we are using are retaining heat, and some of the concepts that you mentioned—they 

are not retaining water. I think there is a lot of progress we can 

make here to try to diminish the impact of urbanization upon the 

environment in which we leave and improve that environment dramatically. 

So I guess I am alone, and you will await our return. 

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I am to declare that the select committee is in recess until the 

votes on the floor are concluded in about 20 minutes. 

Thank you. 

[Recess.] 

The CHAIRMAN. We welcome everybody back. And I think we will 

be able to reconvene for about 15, 20 minutes. We thank you so 

much for your attendance. 

Let me ask the panel, our televisions have been filled with 

weather-related disasters from the floods in Wisconsin down 

through Iowa and Missouri, the drought-fueled forest fires in California. As a Nation, we need to increase our resilience to these 

events, especially as global warming makes them more intense and 

frequent. To plan effectively for the future, it is essential that regional-scale information is available. Does that information exist 

today? Dr. Golden? 

Mr. GOLDEN. Chairman, as I indicated in the oral testimony and 

what I submitted as written testimony, there is a variety of Federal agencies, NGOs and local and regional governments that do 

compile regional data that is imperative for a more refined understanding of what is occurring and what we will be able to predict 

in the future. 

What I also indicated, though, are two glaring issues, the first 

being that there is not a centralized mission agency that can take 

all of this data and be able to provide back to other agencies as 

well as local, regional and government a most refined understanding of what is occurring on the regional level. 

Secondly is someone who tries to understand what is occurring 

and what will occur in the future and provide that to local and regional governments. We rely heavily not only on local climate and 

meteorological stations but on remote sensing, that being satellite 

images; and, as I indicated, a variety of our satellites are due to 

expire. We do not have a dedicated urban system; and the refinements by that, the detail that is provided in these images is somewhat coarse right now and the technology provides for much greater refinement. 

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask then other members of the panel who 

would like to respond, what roles should the Federal Government 

play in supporting and enhancing our understanding by planning 

for the regional impacts of global warming? Give us a recommendation for the Federal Government’s role. Ms. Cooley. 

Ms. COOLEY. Thank you, Chairman. 

One of the things that I would like to draw attention to is that 

there has been a substantial amount of cut in the funding for many 

of the monitoring programs. For example, for the USGS, many of 

the stream gauge stations have been shut down and that data is 

no longer being maintained. So increasing funding for those programs so that we can actually look at trends and see what is happening I think is critical. 

In addition, looking at projections, climate projections and then 

down-scaling them to local and regional levels so that water utilities can make use of that information and use that in their planning. In California, there is a very comprehensive effort to do that. 

At the State level, it is a program done by the California Energy 

Commission; and they have pulled together a team of researchers 

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using the same climate models, the same emissions scenarios and 

are looking at impacts associated with that. So doing those types 

of activities regionally in other States I think it is critical. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Ms. Licata, you sought recognition. 

Ms. LICATA. One of the reasons that we joined together with 

other metropolitan cities that are searching for good research with 

respect to climate change signs is exactly for the reason that we 

have many institutions sort of foraging out and working on these 

issues independently, and we feel that the Federal Government 

certainly has a role to provide us with unified research on this 

front. It is extremely important to water managers to have good 

data on precipitation and precipitation trends. So I echo, you know, 

the comments made earlier by the members of the panel, but it is 

extremely important for the Federal research to take on this role 

of looking at the questions that the water managers are asking and 

to have focused research on some of those ideas and questions and 

particularly with respect to precipitation, which is something that 

we are all struggling with at this point. 

The CHAIRMAN. And you are dependent upon the Federal Government for the information. 

Ms. LICATA. We are dependent on the Federal Government as 

well as on the academic institutions. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, that goes to you, Dr. Adegoke. You are an 

academic representative here on the panel. 

Mr. ADEGOKE. My view on this is that the Federal Government 

has an important role, a major role to play, but that role really is 

in enhancing capacity at the local level to—climate change and climate variability presents various levels of risks and vulnerabilities 

to various sectors. You think about agriculture, you think about 

whatever sector you pick up, you know, or even our city systems. 

If we look at our cities across the country, you know, we are vulnerable at various points and in various ways; and those 

vulnerabilities are best assessed at the local level. But what we do 

need, what we do need is an enabling environment in times of policy that provides the kind of support both in times of leadership 

and in times of funding to—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Are you talking in terms of the National Weather Service receiving more funding that then could provide you with 

the more targeted information that you need on a regional basis in 

order to make these decisions? Tell us specifically how much money 

you think would be needed and which agency should get it and 

what are the responsibilities that we should give them in order to 

provide the regional information. 

Mr. ADEGOKE. Well, every agency that has a responsibility for 

some sector of the environment. So we are talking about—we are 

talking about NOAA, for instance, for weather. We are talking 

about—we are talking about USGS for—we are talking about all 

our national agencies that have a responsibility for managing our 

environment need significantly more funding, you know, to enhance 

observational capacity at the local level. 

The CHAIRMAN. So which agency, Dr. Adegoke, is the lead agency 

in your mind? Who would we put the coordinating responsibilities 

with to ensure that our package is then sent to a region? How 

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would you construct that Federal Government responsibility so 

that it was coordinated there and it didn’t come in from five different locations? Which agency should be the lead agency? 

Ms. Licata. 

Ms. LICATA. There is the Climate Change Science Program, and 

that is currently the Federal organization that is supposed to centralize all of the activities of the agencies, and there are multiple 

amounts of agencies engaged in the climate change research and 

science. So that is the Climate Change Science Program, and I believe they are based out of NOAA. I believe it is out of NOAA. But 

its intended purpose is to coordinate among all of the Federal agencies working in this field. 

The CHAIRMAN. So you would make NOAA the lead agency? 

Ms. LICATA. It seems as though there is already a seed organization within NOAA. So it would make sense to me. 

And because I do believe that the data and research regarding 

the weather trends, precipitation, the rain gauges is really very important, I would suggest that that would be the right way to proceed. 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Golden, do you think NOAA should be the 

lead agency? 

Mr. GOLDEN. I think it depends on exactly what we are talking 

about. If I look in the arena of protecting human health and the 

environment, that itself is the mission statement of the U.S. EPA. 

And the U.S. EPA, as do other agencies—and I work with NOAA 

and CDC and EPA—also does coordinating. So I am not focusing 

just on them, but it would seem by their mission statement to—— 

The CHAIRMAN [continuing]. Put it in EPA? 

Mr. GOLDEN. Yeah. 

The CHAIRMAN. Let’s have some other votes out there. 

Mr. Keppen, where would you put it? 

Mr. KEPPEN. Mr. Chairman, thanks. 

Going back to your first question, what can Congress do? What 

can the Federal Government do? I mentioned in my earlier testimony a bill that was introduced on the Senate side by Senator 

Bingaman and Senator Domenici called the Secure Water Act. It 

has got some great ideas in there about how to coordinate with all 

these various agencies, kind of bring them all together at one table. 

The CHAIRMAN. Who is the lead in that bill? 

Mr. KEPPEN. I can’t recall. It might be the Interior Department 

Secretary or it might be the Commerce Department Secretary. I 

can’t quite recall which one. But it does talk about bringing these 

various entities together that are dealing with climate change. 

The CHAIRMAN. What about Dr. Golden’s idea, that it should be 

the EPA? 

Mr. KEPPEN. Well, there is merit there. I have to say I can’t 

argue with what he is saying. I think just as long as all these parties have a fair say and there is some coordination going on so people know what other agencies are doing, I think that would be 

helpful. 

And I would also say that bill, the Secure Water Act, contains 

provisions that provide funding for additional monitoring and testing and more stream gauges and coordinating between entities in 

that way. 

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The CHAIRMAN. Do you think NOAA, though—NOAA is inside of 

Commerce. Is NOAA really the best agency in your opinion on this, 

Dr. Keppen? 

Mr. KEPPEN. Well, it sure seems like they have a lot of expertise. 

I see they are a little bit less—— 

The CHAIRMAN. When we have this hearing in 2 or 3 more years 

and there has been a complete mess and the Federal Government 

hasn’t passed on the timely information to the regions about something that was anticipatable if it had been put together—well, who 

is sitting in Dr. Golden’s seat? Who do you want sitting there? Do 

you want EPA? Do you want NOAA? Who do should we be yelling 

at, screaming at on that day? 

Mr. KEPPEN. So you are saying the agency that I dislike the 

most. 

The CHAIRMAN. They will be sitting here going, well, we handed 

it all over. 

Mr. KEPPEN. Does Fish and Wildlife fit into this? 

The CHAIRMAN. Who is putting it all together? 

Mr. ADEGOKE. I think what I can add to that is, several of the 

agencies in the last year or two alone, they have all articulated 

very strong climate change initiatives, whether it is the—— 

The CHAIRMAN. If it is everybody’s job, it is nobody’s job. 

Mr. ADEGOKE. The lead agency in the U.S., the lead agency for 

climate change has to be NOAA. 

The CHAIRMAN. Has to be NOAA. 

Mr. ADEGOKE. It has to be NOAA in the U.S. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Cooley, you have the final vote here. 

Ms. COOLEY. Thank you. 

Well I think there is a difference, too. Are we just talking about 

monitoring and looking at what is projected under climate change? 

Or are we then looking at impacts? Because if we are talking about 

impacts, there is going to be a lot of different agencies that are involved in that. And I would agree with Ms. Licata that, you know, 

perhaps the climate research team would be a good place for that 

in terms of bringing all these agencies—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Who is in charge of the climate research team 

right now, Ms. Cooley? 

Ms. COOLEY. I do not know. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ah, see, that is not good. 

The thing is, we know the name of the Secretary of Commerce. 

He will be sitting where Dr. Golden is. We know the head of EPA 

will be sitting there. But we need somebody that we can actually 

say, we gave you the power. Right? So it has got to be something 

that has real accountability and people really feel, oh, this is important. 

We have a rising storm here in the community. So we have to 

do it in a way that not only has accountability but that you all 

know their name. You know? Of course. Like the equivalent of 

FEMA, right? That you know the name of the person, you know, 

in case there is a mess heading your way. 

That is after the fact, though, right? I am talking about before 

the fact here. And FEMA is now over in Homeland Security. But, 

in a way, this is homeland security as well. But we need to raise 

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the accountability because it is reasonably anticipatable that there 

is going to be some really tragic events that occur. 

I see pretty much a split decision here. We are leaning towards 

NOAA, I would say. 

Dr. Adegoke, you mentioned taking a bottom-up vulnerability 

perspective and researching the impacts of climate change. Can 

you describe what is needed for this research and how the future 

scientific assessments such as the one recently released by the 

United States Climate Change Science Program should incorporate 

a bottom-up analysis? 

Mr. ADEGOKE. Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

That assessment that you have just referred to is—it integrates 

the best of what we know currently. But it is still a translation, 

a down-scaling of the information that we have from general circulation models in terms of future predictions. 

I do climate modelling. I do climate research. I run a climate 

modelling laboratory. But I know that when you are looking at regional and local impacts, what we have, the projections and the 

down-scaled information that we get from these models do not sufficiently capture, okay, the understanding that we need to begin to 

address the question of risk and vulnerability. 

What we need, okay, is to take a sectoral approach. We have to 

do a sectoral approach. We have to look at specific sectors, look at 

water systems, say, for instance, in small communities. We will 

look at health across the spectrum. You know, we will look at agricultural systems, you know, and then do an assessment of risk for 

each of the sectors. 

So this, I think, connects back to your earlier question about who 

should be a lead agency. We do need a lead agency, yes, to give direction. Okay. But this work has—what I think we really need is 

a U.S. Government that is going to say, everything that we do as 

a government, everybody that we fund as a government needs to 

look at this question of how are we as a society vulnerable, where 

are our risks? Use some of the money that we are giving you. We 

are going to increase some of your funding to address this issue but 

address it at policy relevant scales. And that policy relevant scale 

I believe it would be at the local level. 

The CHAIRMAN. Okay. Thank you, Doctor, very much. 

Let me throw out this question. Many of you today have highlighted the amount of water consumed by our fossil fuel and nuclear energy sources. 

Mr. Keppen, in your testimony, I was struck by the statistics 

that, by 2030, utilities could account for up to 60 percent of the 

nonfarm water consumed in the entire United States. That is a 

staggering amount of water just to be consumed by the fossil fuel 

and nuclear energy industries. 

Ms. Cooley, you testified that wind and photo-voltaic technologies 

require none to very little water for energy production. This connection between water use and energy production is one that is little understood by the public or even Members of Congress. How do 

the witnesses on our panel today suggest that, as Congress considers energy policy, we incorporate this water issue? Ms. Cooley. 

Ms. COOLEY. Thank you, Chairman. 

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One way to do that is to really integrate water and energy issues 

and planning so that if we are looking at water supply we also look 

at what the energy implications are of those water supply options. 

Another way would be through, as I testified, water conservation 

and efficiency, that that is an important way to not only reduce 

water use but to reduce energy use. And doing so is cost effective. 

So including measures that not only save water but saving energy. 

Perhaps setting Federal standards for clothes washers, for example. Both consume tremendous amount of water and energy, and 

some of the newer versions that are on the market reduce that use 

considerably. 

Also, when considering energy technologies, to look at what the 

water uses are and to consider whether that is an appropriate use 

of our water resources in the areas that they are being considered. 

The CHAIRMAN. But if 60 percent of the water that is non-farmed 

is in the utility sector, does that not call for a solar and wind revolution in America? Is that basically what we need to have by 2030 

in order to prevent this incredible consumption of water by a very 

narrow part of the total American economy? 

Ms. COOLEY. Well, it does suggest some opportunities and some 

additional benefits that wind and solar can provide. So not only reducing our greenhouse gas emissions but reducing our vulnerability 

to water supply constraints. 

In my written testimony, I have provided a couple of newspaper 

headlines that talk about how water availability affects energy production and as we look into the future with an increased incidence 

of drought, as we know, that we are going to have constraints on 

both energy and water. 

The CHAIRMAN. So I think it was your testimony, Dr. Golden, 

that made a reference to the additional amount of electrical generating capacity we were going to need in the year 2030 in the 

United States to make up for the increased demand plus the retirement of older plants. Could you tell me again how much new electricity generation in megawatts do you think we need by 2030? 

Mr. GOLDEN. About 281,000 megawatts of new power generation 

capacity will be needed by 2025, which is equivalent to about 950 

new power plants at 300 megawatts. 

The CHAIRMAN. So 281,000 new megawatts of electricity by 2025 

will be needed in the United States. So if a high percentage of 

them are nuclear or coal, then we are going to see huge consumption of water. We will hit that 60 percent target for nonfarm water 

consumption in the utilities sector. 

Mr. GOLDEN. Well, I would add one other factoid to this. As the 

USGS in their reports have indicated that it is not agriculture, it 

is not municipal water. In fact, thermal electric power is the largest use of water withdrawals, not consumption, water withdrawals 

in the United States; and that does not go without impacts to our 

environment and ecological systems as we heat the water, use the 

water through cooling towers and then send it back out. 

The CHAIRMAN. So what if we adopted a strategy? Let’s just say, 

281,000. Where did you get that number from in terms of the needed additional electricity? 

Mr. GOLDEN. EIA, DOE. 

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The CHAIRMAN. Okay. And let’s just assume that is the worstcase scenario and the Department of Energy hasn’t factored in increased efficiency in appliances and air conditioning and other devices, and we know for the first 6 years of the Bush administration 

they missed all 35 deadlines. But let’s assume that no President for 

the next 18 years meets any deadlines and we have the worst-case 

scenario, which I am assuming that that is what the Department 

of Energy must be talking about. 

This year, there is an estimation that 7,000 new megawatts of 

wind will be constructed in the United States. So if you go between 

now and 2018 and you are very conservative and it is just 7,000 

new megawatts of wind per year and you multiply that by 18, that 

might come out to—that would be 126,000 megawatts of the needed 

281 under your scenario, huh? Which would really put a dent in 

that big number. 

And if we made an assumption that solar, let’s just say, was only 

producing 50,000 megawatts by then, then you might be up to 

180,000 or so of the 280,000 megawatts that you need. In other 

words, a lot of this is avoidable if you move over to the renewable 

sources for electrical generation and—could you tell me, does gasfired electrical plants consume as much water as coal-fired? 

Mr. GOLDEN. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. No. Do you know what the factor is there in 

terms of the equation? 

Mr. GOLDEN. No, not off the top of my head. I can get that back 

to you. 

The CHAIRMAN. It is substantially less, though, natural gas as 

opposed to coal. 

Mr. GOLDEN. The new natural gas plants are actually dry natural gas plants. Many of the new natural gas plants are considered 

dry natural gas plants. 

The CHAIRMAN. Dry, dry natural gas. Is there such a thing for 

coal, dry coal? 

Mr. GOLDEN. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Cooley, do you know the answer to this question? 

Ms. COOLEY. I also do not have those numbers off the top of my 

head, but I would be happy to send those numbers to you and your 

staff members. 

The CHAIRMAN. So if we put in place a program of moving to 

wind and solar, perhaps geothermal plus natural gas, we could 

probably drive down dramatically the amount of water by 2025 

that is being consumed in the electrical generating sector. Do you 

agree with that? 

Mr. GOLDEN. I would. But I would caution one caveat. When we 

talk about electrical generation we need to think about base versus 

peak. So as an advocate of renewable energy, I concur with your 

statements. My only caution is that we need to ensure that this is 

a base load and we can also meet our peak. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, a lot of people are saying that because of 

the high price now for oil that it is driving up the price of natural 

gas. And, as a result, we are discovering a lot more natural gas in 

the United States. So if we used the natural gas as the base load 

and then we built our wind and solar around it as planned, so that 

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you still had the base load capacity and natural gas and whatever, 

you know, is the remainder of coal, is that a strategy for reducing 

water consumption while still maintaining the base load capacity? 

Mr. GOLDEN. Yes. 

The CHAIRMAN. So we need a plan for America going forward towards 2025. Because what you have laid out here is pretty catastrophic in terms of the amount of water being consumed and what 

the impact then is on all the other needs that we have in our society. 

So at this point my time has been consumed. The gentleman 

from Oregon, Mr. Blumenauer, has arrived; and I will recognize 

him to ask questions. 

Mr. BLUMENAUER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

And I must confess I am quite frustrated. I had two other committee meetings that kept me from this. But I have had a chance 

to review the testimony, and it is just really outstanding. 

The CHAIRMAN. Yeah. You have saved the best hearing for last, 

like the wedding feast at Cana. I appreciate it. 

Mr. BLUMENAUER. This is terrific stuff. And I am particularly interested—but time doesn’t permit. We are being called to another 

vote. But I am hopeful that there would be a chance for us to explore with you in greater depth what the Federal Government can 

do in terms of promoting reasonable land use as a way to help reduce the impacts from flooding. 

And the Federal Government, part of something that has frustrated me for years, how hard it worked to get the most minimal 

reforms in the flood insurance program, where we kept putting people back in harm’s way. I would particularly appreciate it if you 

would have a chance to review the legislation that is currently 

wending its way through dealing with flood insurance for a way 

that we might be able to tweak that for the Federal Government 

to do a better job to reduce that. And I think I have time, though, 

to maybe get an answer. 

Mr. Keppen, just dealing with issues that relate to the promotion 

of farm policies on the part of the Federal Government—we lost— 

sorry—policies that relate to the promotion—the things going forward we can do with Federal agricultural policy to try and take advantage of preserving key lands, using it to preserve and protect 

communities and be able to strengthen the agriculture. Even 

though we missed the boat with the Farm Bill, literally and figuratively, I wonder if you had other thoughts and observations about 

what we could and should be doing at this point. 

Mr. KEPPEN. Well, one of the—I guess you brought up an observation earlier about land use and how the government can work on 

that, and it sounds like your comments were targeted towards flood 

insurance. 

In the West, our watershed areas are almost all owned by the 

Federal Government; and they are in bad shape. I don’t know if 

you have been to northern Colorado or southern Wyoming lately, 

but those watersheds are dying. The trees are dying. Even around 

where I live, Klamath Falls, we have got lots of areas where beetle 

kills, taken out trees—— 

We have got to get back and get serious about watershed management, and that has benefits not just for timber and wildlife and 

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economies but also flood control. Because most of your areas draining downstream start in Federal lands in the West. 

All I can say, as far as looking for ways to protect the farmland 

and that sort of thing, my organization—you know, we are even 

catching some heat for it, trying to get out and develop partnerships with conservation groups. We worked with conservation 

groups on the Farm Bill to try to come up with some programs that 

would help water supplies in rural areas. It is getting to the point 

right now where that is going to be the way of doing business just 

for farmers to survive. 

I talked to the president of my board, a Wyoming rancher, yesterday. He is spending $2,000 per vehicle per week on gasoline 

alone just getting around on his ranch; and he said he is going to 

go broke. He can’t make it. 

So the economics are forcing agriculture I think to start to be a 

little bit more innovative and maybe creating partnerships with 

groups that we have been adversaries with in the past. So those 

are some of the things that we are working on. 

Mr. BLUMENAUER. Mr. Chairman, I would just leave as an openended request for suggestions about specific policies. It seems to me 

that we have a new transportation bill that is coming forward. We 

are going to be looking at energy. The cap and trade is going to 

be likely, no matter who is president, and being able to use a small 

portion of this resource to be able to help people to be able to cope 

with the disasters, particularly as it relates to water. Policies on 

Federal land itself that should be adjusted, flood insurance. So the 

sense of priority that you have for things that we are going to have 

walking through the Capitol over the course of the next 30 months 

for specifics would be of great interest to me. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman. 

We just have time to give 5 minutes to the gentleman from New 

York, and then we will have to adjourn. 

Mr. HALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you all for your testimony. 

I will ask my questions primarily to Ms. Licata, since we are fortunate enough to have her here today. 

In the Northeast, we have the country’s oldest wastewater infrastructure, which means that we are heavily reliant on CSOs and 

SSOs, which are already frequently overwhelmed. If we are looking 

at severe increases in participation, isn’t it fair to assume that the 

pollution when these old systems overflow could lead to a serious 

regression as far as water quality standards are concerned? 

Ms. LICATA. That is certainly a possibility; and, for that reason, 

we are starting to explore new strategies. 

The New York City system is 70 percent combined sewer overflows, and one of the opportunities that we may have is to start to 

look at more source control. So the way in which that we have 

dealt with the CSOs in the past has been to rid our city of storm 

water as quickly as possible and to send that to our water treatment plants and, when they are overwhelmed, to discharge the untreated but heavily diluted wastewater. Now what we are looking 

at is can we have—and do we have—opportunities within public 

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rights of way and on public land to do some type of storm water 

management? 

We are also looking very closely at what can you do on individual 

development lots? One of the strategies you have heard, I am sure, 

about our green roofs. But what the city of New York is currently 

looking at are what are known as blue roofs. And they are not really picturesque. It is really a tank on a roof, but what it does is it 

has the effect of detaining storm water. 

Mr. HALL. Thank you very much, and I compliment you on your 

work and the Mayor for his leadership in this regard. 

How can Congress help local communities best address this particular threat? 

Ms. LICATA. One of the very significant challenges that New York 

has is really the age of its infrastructure system and what we need 

sorely is to build out the remainder of infrastructure. So we have 

these two problems: One, we have not kept pace with development 

pressures in the outer boroughs. So we have a lot of infrastructure 

that still has yet to be built. And, two, we really need to resize and 

rethink infrastructure that was built, say, in the early 1920s and 

before we saw major growth after World War II. So those are two 

major sources of funding that the city is lacking. 

Mr. HALL. Thank you. 

The city has a number of reservoirs and, of course, the aqueduct 

system which runs through my district and several reservoirs in 

my district and other upstate districts. In the 19th District of New 

York we have had three 50-year floods in the last 5 years, some 

of the extreme weather events that the doctor and the rest of the 

panel have been talking about. And I am curious, in terms of the 

Delaware watershed, which has experienced, in particular, April 

29th of last year, the nor’easter that flooded Port Jervis and other 

communities in Orange County and also my hometown of Dover 

Plains in Dutchess County, where the Ten Mile was flooding again 

for the third 50-year time in a 5-year period. There has been talk 

about whether the New York City reservoir system could be used 

if we knew in advance that an extreme rain event was about to 

happen and whether there is a possibility of letting some water out 

in advance so that then it can be—some of the rain can be retained. 

I understand it is a complicated question, and it requires maybe 

better science than we have. But do you have any thoughts about 

those? 

Ms. LICATA. It is a very complicated question to answer in a very 

short amount of time. But what I will say is that the Department 

has implemented a flexible flow management program, and what 

that allows us to do is to maintain a certain void within those reservoirs on the Delaware system. However, that void can only be 

maintained when we have a certain or a more certain probability 

of refill. So once we get past June 1, it is very difficult for us to 

maintain a void because we won’t have the—well, at least by 

hindcasting, we won’t have precipitation events that we can be certain of. 

So one of the other strategies that we can use is to look to make 

our Croton system more robust. We are bringing our filtration 

plans online there and to be able to develop aqueducts that will 

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allow further interconnectivity between the Delaware system and 

the Catskill system. And these are all strategies that the Department is analyzing, but these are very long-term strategies. 

Mr. HALL. Thank you very much. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

We have time for each of you to give us your concluding 20 seconds. That is all you have. 

What do you want us to remember for the final 20 seconds, Ms. 

Cooley? 

Ms. COOLEY. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you again for inviting 

me here today to speak. 

I think the things I would like you to remember today is that we 

are faced with challenges both from climate change as it is related 

to floods and droughts and from continued population growth. The 

good news is that we have a number of options available that are 

not only effective today but are effective in the future; and so I 

would encourage the government and the legislature to go ahead 

and move forward and pursue these options, including—and I will 

restate—smart flood plain management, developing alternative 

supplies—— 

The CHAIRMAN. Twenty seconds. Thank you. 

Mr. Keppen. 

Mr. KEPPEN. I will say, in a nutshell, we are looking at competition for water in the West, limited supplies. Right now, agriculture 

is the default reservoir to meet a lot of these new demands. We 

need to be thinking about our ability as a country to be self-sufficient, and somehow that needs to find its way into the highest levels of the national policy. 

The CHAIRMAN. Twenty seconds. Thank you, Mr. Keppen. 

Dr. Golden. 

Mr. GOLDEN. Our communities are at risk. We have a variety of 

Federal agencies that are doing great work, but we need leadership 

to bring that great work to bear back to the local and regional governments. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. You did that in 9 seconds. 

Ms. Licata. 

Ms. LICATA. We need to update floodplain maps within the city 

of New York. And, two, I believe we need Federal partnerships to 

go ahead about the business of down-scaling those global—I should 

say general circulation models into more regionally specific models. 

The CHAIRMAN. Floodplain maps in New York. It is like a movie, 

huh? It is like a preview of coming attractions. 

Dr. Adegoke. 

Mr. ADEGOKE. We need to strengthen the research capacity that 

we have in this country to begin to address the questions of risk 

and vulnerability that we are facing as a society. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Dr. Adegoke, very much. 

We have a roll call on the floor that will begin in a minute and 

22 seconds. Mr. Hall and I would like to take a picture with you, 

and then the hearing is adjourned. Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 3:26 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] 

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