U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION^^^^^^^^ 

•-•OLKC rOPtRATIONS 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

M m 23 P I:5S 

+ + + + + 

PRE-HEARING CONFERENCE 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

FEDERAL AVIATION 

ADMINISTRATION 

COMPLAINANT, 

V. 

FAA NO. 

CPlOWPOOlO 

FDMS NO. 

FAA-2010-062 

BRIAN WALLAESA 

RESPONDENT 

Friday, March 2, 2012 

Via Teleconference 

The above-entitled matter came on 

for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 3:00 p.m. 

BEFORE: 

THE' HONORABLE RONNIE A. YODER, 

CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE 

MAR 19 2012 

HEARING DOCKET 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www. nea Irgross .com 
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APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of the Respondent: 

BRIAN WALLAESA, pro se 

11272 Wortham Crest Circle 

Manassas, Virginia 20109 

(570) 778-1335 

On Behalf of the Complainant: 

of: 

of: 

JOHN C. STUART, JR., ESQ. 

Office of the Chief Counsel 

Enforcement Division, AGC-300 

Federal Aviation Administration 

800 Independence Avenue SW 

Washington, D.C. 20591 

(202) 267-9958 

JOSEPH A. CONTE, ESQ. 

Office of the Chief Counsel 

Manager, Special Emphasis 

Enforcement 

Enforcement Division, AGC-300 

Federal Aviation Administration 

800 Independence Avenue SW 

Washington, D.C. 20591 

(202) 267-7381 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2:59 p.m. 

JUDGE YODER: We're on the record. 

This is a pre-hearing telephone conference in 

Brian Wallaesa . FAA Docket Number CPlOWPOOlO . 

FDMS Number FAA-2010-0628. 

And on the phone we have for the 

FAA, John C. Stuart, Jr. , and Joseph A. Conte. 

And we have the Respondent appearing pro se. 

We have a court reporter who will transcribe 

the proceeding. 

We went through this last time. 

So you know, Mr. Wallaesa, if you need a copy 

of the transcript, you will need to arrange 

that with the court reporter. 

Mr. Stuart, whom should I 

understand is going to be speaking for the 

Complainant? 

MR. STUART: I will be, Your 

Honor. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. That's Mr 

Stuart. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C 20005-3701 

www.nealrgross.com 
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1 MR. STUART: That's correct. 

2 JUDGE YODER: Okay. I want to 

3 make sure. Not trying to keep Mr. Conte from 

4 speaking but generally we have one voice for 

5 each party. 

6 I called the pre-hearing 

7 conference for a number of reasons . We had a 

8 number of matters outstanding, which I think 

9 we can address at this point. There was a 

10 motion for hearing. That, of course, will be 

11 granted subject to finding a hearing room and 

12 being able to determine a time and place. 

13 As you may or may not know, when 

14 we left the DOT Headquarters Building our 

15 hearing room was "re-purposed". So we no 

16 longer have a hearing room that we can command 

17 the time of. And it has devolved in to our 

18 arranging alternate space, which has proved to 

19 be more complicated than we might have 

20 initially thought. It was supposed to have 

21 been taken care of by the people that caused 

22 us to move but that didn't happen. In any 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 

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event, that was one motion that was pending. 

There was a motion for default and 

to limit the hearing to sanctions. And that 

will be denied, based on the indicated factual 

disputes that have been evidenced in the 

previous pre-hearing since that time. 

We will deem the complaint amended 

to include the allegation that Wallaesa failed 

to fix his seatbeIt, since Wallaesa was 

basically on notice that that's what was 

contemplated and it can be inferred from the 

specific allegation in the complaint. 

The Respondent didn't file a 

specific answer. We went through the 

complaint and addressed each allegation in the 

last pre-hearing conference, and we will take 

his answer as submitted and supplemented in 

the previous pre-hearing conference responses. 

Now when we adjourned last time, 

we had asked Counsel for Complainant to 

provide a transcript of the criminal 

proceeding. And in subsequent submissions, I 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 2000&-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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understand that there was, in fact, no 

transcript. But you have provided the 

documents which were in the docket for that 

criminal trial. Is that correct, Mr. Stuart? 

MR. STUART: Yes. We provided the 

documents from the record - - and the 

transcripts are not part of the record, and do 

not exist. 

Okay. 

JUDGE YODER: Yes. I understand. 

On the other hand, one of the 

things that we did find in reviewing what you 

submitted was an order by Senior Judge Reed 

directing the Government to investigate the 

transcript of the grand jury proceeding, and 

obtain a full transcript, and provide the same 

to Respondent's defense counsel. 

Mr. Stuart, do you have a copy of 

that transcript? 

MR. STUART: I don't. I think Mr. 

Wallaesa included one page of the grand jury 

transcript in one of his filings. But - -

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www. nea Irgross com 
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JUDGE YODER: I noticed that. And 

that was my next question. Mr. Wallaesa do 

you have a copy of that transcript? 

MR. WALLAESA: That is actually 

submitted to the clerk. 

JUDGE YODER: I'm sorry? 

MR. WALLAESA: The full document 

was submitted to the hearing docket clerk. 

JUDGE YODER: Your - - the 

transcript of the grand jury was submitted to 

the DOT docket clerk? 

MR. WALLAESA: The FAA docket 

clerk. 

JUDGE YODER: It wasn't submitted 

to me. And --

MR. WALLAESA: That's - -

JUDGE YODER: And I just heard Mr. 

Stuart say he doesn't have it. 

MR. WALLAESA: I submitted the 

entire document. 

JUDGE YODER: Well, can you send a 

copy of that to me and Mr. Stuart? Or what's 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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the most convenient way for us to obtain that? 

We're going to need that before the hearing. 

MR. WALLAESA: I can send it if 

it' s necessary. It is submitted to the 

hearing docket clerk. 

JUDGE YODER: Well --

MR. WALLAESA: We did have 

difficulty. It got bounced back from both. 

Your Honor and Mr. Conte. 

I believe Mr. Stuart received it. 

And I submitted the whole entire - -

JUDGE YODER: Mr. Stuart, can you 

readily check whether that's in the FAA 

docket? 

MR. STUART: Not readily. Your 

Honor. But, you know, probably in the next, 

well, the next couple of hours. 

JUDGE YODER: Well, let's put it 

this way. If it's in the docket, would you 

provide me with a copy of it? And of course, 

you can have a copy yourself. If it's not in 

the docket, would you undertake to communicate 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C, 20005-3701 www, nea Irg ross. com 
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that fact to Mr. Wallaesa --

MR. WALLAESA: Wallaesa, Your 

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Honor. 

JUDGE YODER: -- and arrange its 

submission to>both you and me? 

MR. STUART: Yes, Judge. 

JUDGE YODER: Obviously, the 

people who appeared in that grand jury are 

going to be, some of them anyway, are going to 

be witnesses in this case if it goes to 

hearing. 

And there's already questions 

raised as to whether their testimony there 

supports or doesn't support the complaint or 

the defense. 

So if we're going to -- Mr. 

Wallaesa, if you have to provide that how long 

will it take you to get it copied and get it 

to us? Do you know how long it is? 

MR. WALLAESA: What, the whole 

document? Or what do you mean? 

JUDGE YODER: Grand Jury, the 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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transcript of the grand jury proceeding. 

MR. WALLAESA: It -- I have it 

here. It's just under my other stuff. It 

wouldn't take me that long to get to you if 

you needed it. 

It's a very thick, like a multipage document. I think it's about 2 0 or 3 0 

pages. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. And then if 

you could get that to us within a week, could 

you do that? 

MR. WALLAESA: If that's what you 

request. 

JUDGE YODER: Well, I'm just 

trying to find out when you can do it. Can 

you do it within a week or do you need more 

time than that? 

MR. WALLAESA: From what --a week 

is what? What's today? The --

JUDGE YODER: That would be the 

9th. March 9. And that would be a received 

date. So it would need to go UPS or FedEx so 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. DC. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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it actually gets here. 

You can't mail things to the 

Government. Or - -

MR. WALLAESA: I understand that. 

JUDGE YODER; - - they wind up, 

they wind up going to West Virginia and being 

irradiated, and fused together, and delayed a 

month or so. 

MR. WALLAESA: I used -- I sent it 

FedEx. But yes, I mean, I submitted it with 

the hearing docket clerk. It's in the 

document of the docket clerk. 

JUDGE YODER: Well, if it's in the 

docket, you can coordinate that with Mr. 

Stuart. He can check whether it's there. 

MR. WALLAESA: Well, actually, 

could he check and see, and if he can get a 

copy there first? 

JUDGE YODER: Certainly. That's 

what I just said. So he will check that. And 

then he will get back to you if it's not 

there, and you folks can arrange its 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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transmission to him and me. Okay? 

MR. WALLAESA: All right. 

JUDGE YODER: And we'll try to get 

that done by March 9. Okay. So you'll send 

it FedEx. Okay. 

MR. WALLAESA: Let me just --

well, can I have until the next week? Is that 

possible? 

March 16? 

JUDGE YODER: Sure. Till when? 

MR. WALLAESA: That's fine . 

That's more than enough. 

JUDGE YODER: Fine. We'11 make 

that March - -

MR. WALLAESA: By the 15th. 

JUDGE YODER: 15? 

MR. WALLAESA: Yes. Before the 

15th. I'm sorry. I'm trying to be --

JUDGE YODER: March 15? I just 

want a date that you can live with and will 

abide by. You can do it by the 15th? 

MR. WALLAESA: That's fine. 

{202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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JUDGE YODER: That's Thursday. 

MR. WALLAESA: Yes. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. Now the next 

issue I needed to deal with was whether you 

intend to raise ability to pay as an issue in 

this proceeding. 

Now, in one of your submissions 

you suggested that Complainant's efforts to 

get information on your financial situation 

was "bribery or extortion". 

And I just want to make sure you 

understand what ability to pay has to do with 

this case. If in fact - -

MR. WALLAESA: Wei 1, I'm just 

saying -- I'm just saying that the way the 

methodology ended up - - I have, I can submit 

that information. In fact, I spoke to Mr. 

Stuart about that several times. If that is 

the request, I will submit the information. 

And whatever you need, that's what I'll do. 

JUDGE YODER: Well, what we need 

depends on what you want to do with respect to 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

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the case. 

If you're going to raise the issue 

of ability to pay, then it's incumbent upon 

you to submit financial data so your ability 

to pay can be assessed. 

And the reason that is considered 

is the statute requires that we consider 

ability to pay in fixing a level of penalty 

that is consistent with your financial 

resources. 

And if the amount of the penalty 

is beyond your financial resources then it has 

to be lower. 

The idea of the penalty is to make 

it significant, consistent with your ability 

to pay and the nature of the violation, if one 

is found. 

So you have a right to require the 

ability to pay be considered. But if you 

don't want it to be considered then it won't 

be. 

But I should warn you tha t one of 

(202) 234-4433 

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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

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the key factors that the Administrator has 

looked at in previous cases in fixing a level 

of civil penalty is whether the ability to pay 

was raised and the financial resources of the 

Respondent were demonstrated in the case. 

Do you understand what I'm saying? 

MR. WALLAESA: Yes sir. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. 

MR. WALLAESA: If you understand 

my position, I will with a - - I was 

positioning myself as on the case to be heard 

and then the ability to pay to be considered 

secondly. Is that understandable? 

JUDGE YODER: I didn't know that's 

what you were doing but that's not the way the 

cases are heard. We have on hearing and that 

hearing determines whether there's a 

violation, and if so, what the level of 

penalty should be. 

So it' s incumbent upon you to 

provide that information so that the ability 

to pay can be considered if you want it to be 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

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considered. 

I have no idea what your financial 

resources are. I mean, I know that you had 

public counsel in your criminal case. But 

beyond that, I don't really know anything 

about your financial resources. And it's up 

to you to prove what your financial resources 

are. 

Normally, what they - - what the 

Complainant asks for is compliance with, I 

think, a Department of Justice form which 

requires a listing of your assets and 

liabilities, your income and expenses, and 

your tax returns for the last several years. 

But that's something you sort out with Mr. 

Stuart after we get off the phone. 

But it's important, from your 

perspective, that you provide that 

information, if indeed you want to try to get 

a proposed penalty lowered, consistent with 

your ability to pay. Okay? 

MR. WALLAESA: Okay. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

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JUDGE YODER: Okay. So is that 

something you could also -- when do you think 

you could put that information together? 

Let me ask first, Mr. Stuart, did 

you send him a request for specific 

information? 

MR. STUART: In regards to the 

ability to pay? 

JUDGE YODER: Yes sir. 

MR. STUART: No, Judge. I didn't 

make it that far. Mr. Wallaesa indicated that 

he was not willing to provide those documents. 

JUDGE YODER: Yes. Okay. But you 

can send him today, or I don't know can you 

tell him right now what you need? 

MR. STUART: It's everything that 

you just said. Judge. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. 

MR. WALLAESA: Is there a form or 

a procedure or something that I could follow 

so I could make sure it's a once and done 

thing and I'm not playing tag back and forth? 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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JUDGE YODER: Well, is there a 

Justice Department form that you can send him, 

Mr. Stuart? Or is there a form that you use 

that you send or what? 

MR . STUART : Yes, Judge . Wei 1 

find that and send it to him. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. So you can 

get that to him. Do you have a fax, Mr. 

Wallaesa? 

MR. WALLAESA: I do not. 

email? 

JUDGE YODER: Do you have an 

MR. WALLAESA: Yes, I do. 

JUDGE YODER: So could you email 

that to him, Mr. Stuart? 

MR. STUART: Sure. What's the 

email address? 

MR. WALLAESA: It's B, my last 

name, at hotmail.com. 

JUDGE YODER: B as in boy? 

MR. WALLAESA: Yes. My first 

initial, last name, at hotmail.com. 

(202) 234-4433 

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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

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JUDGE YODER: Hotmail.com. Okay. 

So they can -- they should be able to get that 

out to you today. 

And basically what it's going toask you for is what I just said. Your income, 

your expenses, your assets, your liabilities. 

Do you own a house? 

MR. WALLAESA: Yes, I guess you 

can say that. 

JUDGE YODER: Well, I can't say 

it, but the question is, can you say it? I 

mean, do you -- is there a mortgage on it? 

MR. WALLAESA: Yes. 

JUDGE YODER: So what you would do 

is you'd indicate the house, its value, and 

the amount of the mortgage. 

Do you have cars? 

MR. WALLAESA: I have a car, yes. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. So you would 

list the car and its fair market value. And 

any thing that you owe on it. 

And then, I don't know whether you 

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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

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have other assets or not, but basically you'd 

indicate those assets and then you would 

indicate the amount of your liabilities. 

If you' ve already put down what 

you owe to the mortgage and what you owe on 

the car, it would be a question of what other 

debts you might have. And that would be your 

assets and liabilities. 

And then you would want to provide 

-- what do you ask for Mr. Stuart, two years 

of tax returns? 

MR. STUART: Three years. Five , 

if possible. 

JUDGE YODER: So three years of 

tax returns. I don't think I've ever seen any 

one submit five years, Mr. Stuart. But let's 

assume three years of tax returns. 

And that would presumably not 

include this year unless you're somebody who 

really goes fast and gets his tax returns 

done . 

Have you done your tax return? 

(202) 234-4433 

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MR. WALLAESA: No. I should have 

done it in February. 

JUDGE YODER: Shouldn't we all. 

Okay. So it will be the three years, 2010, 

2009, and 2008. Okay? 

I can't hear you. 

MR. WALLAESA: All right. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. 

MR. WALLAESA: Okay. 

JUDGE YODER: All right. So that 

would take care of that. 

And when do you think you could do 

that if you start on it now? How long vjould 

that take? 

MR. WALLAESA: I have no idea. I 

mean, I just need to see what the form says. 

And what information I need to get. 

The tax returns shouldn't be that 

easy. But the rest of it --

JUDGE YODER: Yes 

MR. WALLAESA: 

else be on -~ 

whatever may 

(202) 234-4433 

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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

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JUDGE YODER: Right. Okay. So 

we'll set March 15 for that date as well? 

MR. WALLAESA: Okay. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. All right. 

MR. WALLAESA: If I want that 

option, right? 

JUDGE YODER: Yes, if you want us 

to consider your ability to pay in evaluating 

the level of penalty. They want the penalty 

to be $5,500. 

And one of the historic best 

arguments that respondents have made in 

getting the requested penalty lowered is to 

show that it would place an undue financial 

burden on them. 

Do you see what I'm saying? 

MR. WALLAESA: Yes. 

JUDGE YODER: And so that's 

something that you would look at. And then 

after you give that to Mr. Stuart I would want 

you folks to talk again about the possibility 

of getting this case settled. Because, Mr. 

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Stuart, if he gets that, will have to look at 

it. And he will have to re-assess the penalty 

that he's asking for. 

Now, that doesn't mean he will 

necessarily lower it. It depends on what you 

show him in terms of financial circumstances. 

But if you show him that your 

financial circumstances can't support your 

payment of a $5500.00 penalty then he's 

obliged by law to lower the amount that he 

asks for. Because he has to consider your 

ability to pay in fixing the amount that he 

asks for. 

Now what he asks for is not what 

the penalty is. I determine what the penalty 

is. But he has to determine what he's going 

to ask for. 

Do you understand what I'm saying? 

MR. WALLAESA: I understand what 

you're saying. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. All right. 

MR. WALLAESA: Let me ask you a 

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JUDGE YODER: Yes sir. Yes sir. 

MR. WALLAESA: If I was not to 

submit the ability to pay, does that mean the 

penalty can be anything? 

JUDGE YODER: Well, that's another 

thing I wanted to get to, because you 

mentioned in one of your submissions that you 

thought that b y adding the other two 

violations it would make your potential 

exposure $33,000.00 . 

The fact is --

MR. WALLAESA: That isn't correct. 

JUDGE YODER: No, it's not. 

The fact is that the penalty cannot be more 

than the amount they've asked for in the 

complaint. So the penalty cannot be more than 

$5500.00. Period. No matter what. 

MR. WALLAESA: Okay. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. 

MR. WALLAESA: No, I can -- the 

point I made out is actually an error. In the 

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JUDGE YODER: Well, actually, that 

is -- that is amended by a subsequent statute 

which raised it to 11. And that's $11,000 per 

violation. 

And they started out with the one 

violation at $5500.00. They added two more 

violations to it, as I understand it. But 

they didn't change the requested penalty. 

So correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. 

Stuart, but the penalty that you've asked for 

is based totally on the 121.580 violation. Is 

that correct? 

MR. STUART: It's correct that the 

$5500 was initially based on only the 121.580 

violation in the notice. 

JUDGE YODER: Yes. 

MR. STUART: Yes. That is 

correct. That's what the original notice 

said. 

JUDGE YODER: I knew that . But 

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that's not what I asked you. 

What I asked you at the last prehearing conference was to submit a statement 

of your basis for the penalty. And in that 

memorandum that you submitted, you didn't 

attribute any part of the penalty to the other 

violations. Isn't that correct? You didn't 

give me any penalty of level for either of the 

other two violations. 

MR. STUART: The total amount is 

$5500, Judge. 

JUDGE YODER: I know what the 

total amount is, Mr. Stuart. Are we not 

communicating? 

What I directed you to do was to 

file a memorandum indicating the basis upon 

which you were proposing to set a penalty of 

$5500. 

And what you answered was that, 

the $5500 penalty is based solely on the 

121.580 violation. That's what your 

memorandum says. 

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the penalty was not increased as a result of 

adding the two other violations. It stayed --

it remained $5500. 

JUDGE YODER: Well, I know that. 

But that's not what I'm saying. 

MR. STUART: So yes, in the notice 

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JUDGE YODER: That's not what you 

said in your memorandum. 

What you said was, that the $5500 

penalty is based solely on the 580 violation. 

MR. STUART: That's what went out 

in the original notice, yes. 

JUDGE YODER: Mr. Stuart, are we 

parsing words? When -- if this goes to 

hearing, you're going to have to prove that 

this penalty level should be awarded. 

And as I told you last time, that 

means you're going to have to prove what part 

of the penalty is attributable to any of these 

particular violations. 

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file. You filed a memorandum. You said the 

penalty is based solely on 580. 

MR. STUART: That, and on Page 6, 

I went in to the sanction amount for 

violations of 121.317(f) and 121.317(k). And 

I did an analysis there based on case law. 

JUDGE YODER: Let me catch up with 

you. Okay. 

Can you tell me then where in your 

memorandum you attribute some portion of this 

penalty or a penalty amount to either of the 

other two violations ? 

MR. STUART: I didn' t do that 

specifically. Your Honor. 

JUDGE YODER: That's what I just 

said. And you said, no, you discussed it in 

your memorandum. 

MR. STUART: I think the 

Government's position would be that the $5500 

would be appropriate for the three violations 

together. 

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JUDGE YODER: I'm sure that may be 

your position. But that's not what you said 

in your memorandum. 

If you're going to change your 

position then you need to file it. Because 

what you've told me is that the $5500 is based 

solely on the 580 violation. 

If you're going to try to support 

it with the other two violations, you got to 

tell me how much of it is attributable to 

those violations. 

You don't just throw a figure out 

and say, "Well, I think that's a nice figure." 

You got to relate the figure to the 

violations. 

MR. STUART: Right. Judge, there 

are aggravating circumstances that justify the 

higher amount. 

JUDGE YODER: I'm not asking 

whether it should be higher or lower. I'm 

telling you it has to be specific to a 

violation. 

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MR. CONTE: Your Honor, this is 

Joe Conte. May I speak or do you want to 

restrict this to --

JUDGE YODER: No, you go ahead. 

MR. CONTE: Thank you. Judge. 

JUDGE YODER: If you could help, 

I'd appreciate it. 

MR. CONTE; Yes. I'm looking at 

Pages 6, 7, and 8 of the - - let me get he 

right date here, November 15th, 2011 

submission by the Complainant. 

JUDGE YODER: Yes sir. I have 

that in front of me. 

MR. CONTE: The memorandum on 

sanctions. 

JUDGE YODER: Yes. 

MR . CONTE: And the 

Complainant' s position is this. Your Honor: 

we understand what you're saying about the 

121.580 charge. 

The -- what we're saying, or what 

we're trying to say in this document is, the 

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121.317{k) and 121.317(f) --

JUDGE YODER: Yes. 

MR. CONTE: --we discuss in there 

if you were charged with a 317 (k) violation or 

a 317(f) violation this is what FAA order 

2150.3(b) appendix, you know, whatever, what 

page, what subparagraph, what the range would 

be. 

And what we - -

JUDGE YODER: I'm sorry. Where 

does it say what the range would be? 

MR. CONTE: For instance. Your 

Honor, on Page 6 --

JUDGE YODER: Yes. 

MR. CONTE: about threequarters of the way down. 

JUDGE YODER: Yes sir. 

MR. CONTE: Okay. So we say, "For 

individuals not serving in the capacity of an 

airman the range is $550 to $4,399." 

JUDGE YODER: Yes sir. 

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MR . CONTE: And that' s in 

reference to the 317(f) violation. 

JUDGE YODER: Yes sir. 

MR. CONTE: And then --

JUDGE YODER: And so where do you 

say then how much of this proposed penalty is 

attributable to that violation? 

MR. CONTE: What we're arguing. 

Judge, what we're trying -- what we're -- our 

position is that these two -- that these two 

violations, that the $5500 total in regard to 

121.580 charge, that the higher amount is 

warranted because these two aspects of the 

case, the 317(f) aspect and the 317 (k) aspect 

MR. CONTE: Excuse me? 

JUDGE YODER: I don't know. 11 

wasn't here. 

MR. CONTE: Okay. The 317(f) and 

the 317(k) aspect are aggravating 

circumstances. So that on the 121.580 charge 

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JUDGE YODER: Yes. 

MR. CONTE: -- if you, Your Honor, 

find that we've proved both of those 

additional charges, that in regard to sanction 

amount, if you were just looking at the 580, 

and thinking, "Well, gee whiz, 580, why don't 

I go with -- I can go in the mid-range," what 

we' re saying here is, these two additional 

aspects of the case, 317 (k) and 317(f) warrant 

something in the higher range of $5500. 

JUDGE YODER: Except that neither 

of those was in the complaint when you filed 

it initially at a level of $5500. 

MR. CONTE I That - - that' s 

absolutely correct. And when Mr. Canneeli 

had the case before he left the FAA, and he 

added the two additional charges, it's true as 

we, as reflected in this teleconference, we 

did not bump up the total amount. 

The 317(k) and the 317(f) 

violations I think were put in there because 

we think we can prove he violated those 

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sections. And we think in terms of sanction 

amount, if we get to that part of the case, 

you know, how much, and I don't know if Mr. 

Wallaesa will put in anything about ability or 

inability to pay, but once we get to the 

sanction part of the case, assuming we win, on 

these three charges, we'd argue, and that's 

what we're arguing here at Pages 6, 7, and 8 

of this document, that the additional charges 

are aggravating circumstances that warrant 

keeping it at $5500 or close to $5500. That's 

our position. 

JUDGE YODER: I understand that, 

Mr. Conte. The problem with that is, you 

submitted a complaint which asks for $55 00 

based on 580 only. You have subsequently 

filed a document that says that the $5500 is 

based only on 580. You filed a document which 

says that penalties in other cases for 

violations of (f) and (k) under 3153(b) would 

fall in a certain range. 

But it -- we're talking about this 

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1 specific case. 

2 MR. CONTE: And I think --

3 JUDGE YODER: This specific case, 

4 the request has not been made for a penalty 

5 based on those within any range at all. 

6 MR. CONTE: I think, Your Honor, 

7 we tried to express it on Page 8 of the 

8 document and the conclusion, where we're 

9 trying to sum up everything about our analysis 

10 and in the memo on sanction, where, yes, you 

11 are right . In the first sentence in the 

12 conclusion, we said the proposed sanction 

13 originally related back to the 580, the 

14 original 580 charge. And then we -- pages 6 

15 and 7 reflect our analysis of 317(f) and (k) . 

16 And then in the last sentence, we say, 

17 "However, in view of the foregoing discussion 

18 of complainant sanction guidance, DOT and FAA 

19 case law sanction amount related to the 

20 violations of 317(f), 317(k), and 580 

21 considered -- and considering the totality of 

22 the circumstances of the case , the 

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Complainant's $5550 civil penalty, the 

proposed civil penalty amount, is reasonable 

and justified." 

That's what we're - -

JUDGE YODER: I understand. I 

understand that. Did you discuss -- yes, you 

discussed the Flores case? 

MR. CONTE: Yes, I think we did. 

MR. STUART: Yes. 

JUDGE YODER: That was a $3300 

penalty. 

MR. CONTE: Right. 

MR. STUART: Yes. 

JUDGE YODER: And you mention that 

some of these cases were just decisions by 

ALJs so they aren't binding precedents. And 

I understand what you mean by that. But I 

think you should not assume that decisions by 

other ALJs which wind up being final, with 

respect to the Respondent, ar^ not relevant to 

the level of penalty in subsequent cases. 

The fact is we're trying to apply 

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1 equal justice here. And all of the 

2 precedents, whether you regard them as binding 

3 or not, are relevant to that consideration. 

4 MR. CONTE: And Judge, I, 

5 actually, in most respects, we -- actually, I 

6 totally agree with that analysis. 

7 And I think that it reflects --i n 

8 our own memorandum, we did get in to the some 

9 of the underlying facts in those ALJ 

10 decisions, and argued either why the case was 

11 inapposite to the present case or we argued 

12 how there were similarities in those other ALJ 

13 decisions, factual similarities warranting the 

14 higher amount. 

15 So while it's true our rules say 

16 that it's the Administrator' s decision that 

17 has precedential value that can be cited in 

18 future cases, we did go beyond just that --

19 JUDGE YODER: I'm sorry. Excuse 

2 0 me. When you say, those are what have 

21 precedential value, I think you overstep. 

22 Those are what are binding precedents. That 

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MR. CONTE: I guess - - I'm not 

disagreeing with you Judge. I guess it's just 

-- you're right. 

Look, if a an attorney wrote a 

terrific law review article, some of us might 

say, "Well, the analysis in there is - -" in 

fact everybody might agree the analysis in a 

law review article or in a judge's initial 

decision is a terrific analysis, it's a 

reasonable way of looking at --

JUDGE YODER: Mr. Conte, you will 

never find me citing a law review article as 

precedent. You will, however, find me citing 

decisions by administrative law judges as 

precedent. 

And I think you misunderstand the 

situation if you suggest that decisions by an 

administrative law judge are analogous to law 

review articles. 

MR. CONTE: No, Your Honor. And 

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so in -- I agree with you. And in fact, our 

documents, our memorandum on sanctions from 

last November, we actually did get in to a 

discussion of the facts in those other ALJ 

decisions. 

JUDGE YODER: I'm aware of that. 

I'm just trying to alert you folks, both 

sides, to the framework of the case that is 

being presented here. And the framework is 

the framework, as I see it, based on what 

you've submitted. And it's important for you 

to understand what that framework is in 

deciding what you' re going to do with this 

case. Okay? 

MR. CONTE: Yes, Judge. 

MR. STUART: Yes. 

JUDGE YODER: All right. Thanks. 

Let's see. You've referred to 

aggravating circumstances a number of times in 

connection with your discussion of the 

penalty. And there's been discussion of 

aggravating circumstances in the previous pre-

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To the extent that those 

aggravating circumstances are alleged in the 

complaint, then they should be considered. To 

the extent that they are not alleged in the 

complaint, I think you have a great deal of 

difficulty getting them considered. 

You need to understand that. If 

you're going to rely on aggravating 

circumstances, you need to allege the facts, 

not just the conclusions, in the complaint so 

that the'Respondent is put on notice of what 

it is you're proposing to prove. 

Do you understand what I'm saying? 

And -- yes. 

MR. CONTE: Yes sir. Your Honor. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. 

MR. CONTE: We do. 

JUDGE YODER: That's all -- that's 

all I want to do. I want to make sure you 

understand. All right. 

Now, Mr. Wallaesa, you did raise 

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an issue as to whether the penalty levels set 

forth in the complaint are supported by the 

statute and regulations as you looked at them. 

It' s always difficult for a 

layperson to try to parse out what statutes 

and regulations say . It is often difficult 

for attorneys to parse out what regulations 

and statues say. 

I should let you know, however, 

that penalties at the $11,000 level for the 

types of violations here, have been, at best -

- that is, using that as the maximum for 

something like 18 years now. 

And while you said the sections 

you looked at don't seem to relate to 

individuals, if you look at 46301(a) (5) , it 

specifically says that, "Penalties applicable 

to individuals and small business concerns." 

And then in (a) it says, "An individual is 

liable to the Government for a civil penalty 

of not more than $10,000," now upgraded to 

$11,000. 

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1 MR. WALLAESA: I understand. I 

2 understand it. Your Honor. 

3 But my position is that those 

4 individuals are people that would be employed 

5 by the FAA, the airlines, the airports - -

6 JUDGE YODER: Well, except --

7 MR. CONTE: - - and the passenger 

8 airlines, and so forth, and not necessarily 

9 the passengers. 

10 JUDGE YODER: I understand that's 

11 your position, Mr. Wallaesa, but I'm trying to 

12 alert you of the fact that that position is 

13 wrong. And it's not going to help you. Okay? 

14 Because the section, among other 

15 things, refers to Chapter 49 as one of the 

16 possible violations which directs the 

17 Undersecretary to prescribe regulations to 

18 protect passengers and property on an aircraft 

19 operating in transportation. 

20 And then there's also a -- it also 

21 refers to a regulation prescribed under any 

22 provision of this section. 

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understand what is at issue and what is not at 

issue here. 

Mr. Stuart, or even Mr. Conte, you 

want to address that contention? 

MR. CONTE: Your Honor, you --in 

our view, you correctly stated what the law 

is. A passenger on - - a passenger is captured 

under the statute. A passenger can be 

sanctioned for a civil penalty for conduct 

happening in --

JUDGE YODER: I just don ' t want 

you to misperceive what the situation is, Mr. 

Wallaesa. 

MR. WALLAESA: I don't believe 

it's misperceived. I'm just bringing up the 

issues as I see them. However - -

JUDGE YODER: All right. That's 

fine. You can bring up any issue you want, 

but relying on issues that have no basis in 

law is not going to serve you much purpose. 

Okay? 

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MR. WALLAESA: I do believe it has 

a basis in law, to be honest with you. Your 

Honor. I believe that the documents were --

the law was set up in mind with airports, 

airlines --

JUDGE YODER: Even though 

decisions --

MR. WALLAESA: -- the passengers 

actually. I think the passengers are an 

afterthought. That's why I cited U.S. 41706, 

42003 and 46301 as like stuck in under the rug 

somewhere, left and right, whatever you ca n 

tell them, to kind of address passenger issues 

after the fact. 

JUDGE YODER: And you --

MR. WALLAESA: And actually --

JUDGE YODER: - - you think the 

decisions for the last 18 years has just been 

wrong. 

MR. WALLAESA: Sure. Yes 

Absolutely. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. That's fine 

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Now let's see. 

You also argue in your submission 

that the proceeding should be dismissed 

because the calculations are based on the 

staff manual 2153(b), and not actual codified 

law. Okay. I just want you to understand 

that the staff manual is referred to by the 

staff, that is to say by Counsel for the 

Complainant, because they have to. 

The manual is biding on them. The 

manual is not binding on you. And it's not 

binding on me. And there are any number of 

decisions, including one of mine going back to 

1989, that that's the case. 

So you need to understand what the 

function of the manual is. The manual tells 

Counsel for the Complainant what they have to 

consider in proposing a civil penalty. 

They don't fix a civil penalty. I 

don't amend what they propose to assess as a 

civil penalty. I fix the civil penalty. 

Do you understand what I'm saying? 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. DC. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
46 

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MR. WALLAESA: I understand. It's 

my position that they use the staff manual and 

only the staff manual to come up with a 

number, and no investigation into the case 

whatsoever, or know the actual precedents 

prior to using the staff manual. 

JUDGE YODER: Well the one thing 

that they could have looked at, other than the 

staff manual, which is also in the staff 

manual, is your ability to pay. And you 

decline to allow them to look at that issue. 

So --

MR. WALLAESA: I never submitted 

it. I said if I was taking that option, as I 

stated before I would rather -- I would want 

the information to be considered based on what 

I had done and how that considers -- what you 

consider that to - - other than just let these 

others --

JUDGE YODER: Well, you've got --

you've got two weeks to figure out whether you 

want to do that or not. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
47 

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And then, let's see --

MR. WALLAESA: It is my position, 

they just pulled the number out of the air 

without any basis in actual payments or real 

facts based on any law or precedent 

whatsoever. And just went to the staff 

manual, looked up in the table and said, 

"$5500 is about right." 

JUDGE YODER: I understand. 

Then in the document that you 

submitted from the transcript of the grand 

jury, you state that the flight attendants are 

going to say that you were polite, courteous, 

and not combative. 

MR. WALLAESA: That is correct. 

JUDGE YODER: And then you submit 

a page from the transcript. And on that page 

it says. Respondent "pushed back and resisted 

the effort to more or less sit him down." 

MR. WALLAESA: Both the FBI 

special agent and the flight attendant stated 

that I was reluctantly compliant, and 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. DC. 20005-3701 www nealrgross.com 
48 

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peacefully compliant, and offered no 

resistance when asked to sit down. 

JUDGE YODER: Just make sure you 

read the whole thing, Mr. --

MR. WALLAESA: I read the whole 

thing. I was there in the court. I was - -

JUDGE YODER: That's why I want to 

make sure we have the whole thing. So we can 

MR. WALLAESA: You do have the 

whole thing. 

JUDGE YODER: Okay. We'll hope to 

get that. 

So let's see now. 

We' ve got dates. We want the 

financial data by the 14th ~- 15th. 

MR. WALLAESA: 15th. 

JUDGE YODER: 15^^. The grand jury 

transcript by the 15th. And I would like you 

folks to, once you get the financial data, if 

you are going to provide that, I would like 

you folks to talk about whether the case is 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
49 

1 settleable and get back to me by the 2 3rd. 

2 Okay? 

3 And once I hear, back that the case 

4 is or is not settling, we will go forward with 

5 securing a place to conduct a hearing, if 

6 that's what's going to be required. Okay. 

7 Is there anything further from 

8 anybody? 

9 MR. STUART: No, Judge. 

10 JUDGE YODER: Okay. Mr. Wallaesa? 

11 MR. WALLAESA: No sir. 

12 JUDGE YODER: Okay. Well thank 

13 you all for your attendance. 

14 And we look forward to hearing 

15 from you by the 23rd on whether there's any 

16 possibility of this cas e settling. All right. 

17 That concludes the pre-hearing 

18 conference. 

19 MR. STUART: Thank you, sir. 

2 0 JUDGE YODER: Bye. 

21 (Whereupon, the above-entitled 

22 matter was concluded at 3:47 p.m.) 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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202-234-4433 

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point 4:9 24:22 

polite47:13 

portion 28:11 

position 15:10 

28:20 29:2,5 

30:1832:1034:12 

42:3,11,1246:2 

47:2 

positioning 15:11 

possibility 22:21 

49:16 

possible 12:8 20:13 

42:16 

potential 24:10 

pre 26:2 39:22 

precedent38:15.17 

47:5 

precedential 37:17 

37:21 38:2 

precedents 36:16 

37:2.22 46:5 

prescribe 42:17 

prescribed 42:21 

present 37:11 

presented 39:9 

presumably 20:18 

previous 5:6.18 

15:2 39:22 

pre-hearing 1:5 3:4 

4:6 5:6,16,18 

49:17 

prior 46:6 

pro 2:3 3:9 

probably 8:16 

problem 34:14 

procedure 17:20 

proceeding 3:11 

5:22 6:15 10:1 

13:645:3 

property 42:18 

propose 45:20 

proposed 16:20 

32:6 35:12 36:2 

proposing 26:17 

40:13 45:18 

protect 42:18 

prove 16:7 27:17 

27-20 332^ 40-13 

proved 4:18 33:3 

provide5:21 6:16 

8:20 9:17 15:21 

16:18 17:1220:9 

48:21 

provided 6:2,5 

provision 42:22 

public 16:4 

pulled 47:3 

purpose43:21 

pursuant 1:19 

pushed 47:18 

put8:18 17:3 20:4 

33:21 34:440:12 

P-R-0-C-E-E-D-... 

3:1 

p.ml:193:2 49:22 

0 

quarters 31:17 

question 7:2 19:11 

20:6 24:1 

questions 9:12 

R 

raise 13:5 14:2 

40:22 

raised 9:13 15:4 

25:5 

range 31:8,12,21 

33:10 34:21 35:5 

read 48:4,5 

readily 8:13,15 

real 47:4 

really 16:5 20:20 

reason 14:6 

reasonable 36:2 

38:12 

reasons 4:7 

received 8:10 10:21 

record 3:3 6:6,7 

Reed 6:13 

reference 32:2 

referred 39:IS 45:7 

refers 42:15,21 

reflect 35:15 

reflected 33:18 

reflects 37:7 

regard 32:1 I 33:4 

37:2 

regards 17:7 

regulation 42:21 

regulations 25:1 

41:3,6,7 42:17 

relate 29:1441:15 

related 35:13,19 

relevant 36:20 37:3 

reluctantly 47:22 

rely 40:9 

relying 43:20 

remained 27:4 

reporter 3:10,15 

request 10:13 

13:19 17:5 35:4 

requested 22:13 

25:10 

require 14:18 

required 49:6 

requires 14:7 16:12 

resistance 48:2 

rpsistpd 47' I 8 

rpsoiirces 14'10 1^ 

15:4 16:3,6,7 

respect 13:22 36:20 

respects 37:5 

Respondent 1:14 

2:23:9 5:13 15:5 

36:20 40:1247:18 

respondents 22:12 

Respondent's 6:17 

responses 5:18 

rest 21:19 

restrict 30:3 

result 27:2 

return 20:22 

returns 16:14 

20:11,15.17,20 

21:18 

review 38:7.10,14 

38:21 

reviewing6:12 

re-assess 23:2 

re-purposed 4:15 

right 12:2 14:18 

17:1521:7,10 

22:1,4.6 23:21 

29:1630:1035:11 

36:1238:5 39:17 

40:21 43:1844:12 

47:8 49:16 

RONNIE 1:22 

room4:ll.15,16 

rug44:l 1 

rules 37:15 

S 

sanction 28:5 33 4 

34:1,6 35:10,12 

35:18,19 

sanctioDed43:10 

sanctions5:3 30:15 

39:2 

saying 13:15,15 

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 
15:6 22:1623:18 

23:20 27:6 30:19 

30:21 33:8 40:14 

45:22 

says2l:16 26:22 

34:17,1941:17,19 

47:18 

se2:3 3:9 

seatbelt 5:9 

secondly 15:13 

section 42:14,22 

sections 34:1 41:14 

securing 49:5 

see 11:17 21:16 

22:1639:10.18 

43:1745:1 47:1 

48:14 

seen 20:15 

iend?;21 S:3 12:4 

17:5.14 18:2,4,6 

Senior 6:13 

sent I 1:9 

senteiice35:l 1.16 

serve43:21 

serving 31:20 

set 22:2 26:1741:1 

44:4 

settleable 49:1 

settled 22:22 

settling 49:4,16 

show 22:14 23:6,7 

sides 39:8 

significant 14:15 

similarities 37:12 

37:13 

sir 15:7 17:9 24:2,2 

30:12 31:18.22 

32:3 40:1549:11 

49:19 

sit 47:19 48:2 

situation 13:9 

38:19 43:13 

small 41:18 

solely 26:20 27:12 

28:"3 29:7 

somebody 20:19 

sorry 7:6 12:18 

31:11 37:19 

sort 16:15 

space 4:18 

speak 30:2 

speaking 3:1 7 4:4 

special 2:15 47:21 

specific 5:12,14 

17:5 29:21 35:1,3 

specifically 28:15 

41:17 

spoke 13:17 

staff 45:5,7,8 46:2 

46:3,6,9.9 47:6 

start 21:13 

started 25:7 

state 47:12 

stated 43:7 46:15 

47:21 

statement 26:3 

statues 41:8 

statute 14:7 25:4 

41:3 43:9 

statutes41:5 

stayed 27:3 

Stuart2:7 3:8.16 

3:19.22 4:1 6:4,5 

6:18,20 7:18,22 

8:10,12,15 9:6 

11:15 13:18 16:16 

17:4,7.10,16 18:3 

18:5,15,1620:10 

20:12.1622:20 

23:1 25:12,15,19 

26:10,13 27:1.7 

27:13.1528:4,14 

28:1929:1636:9 

36:13 39:1643:4 

49:9.19 

stuck 44:11 

stuff 10:3 

subject 4:11 

submission 9:5 

30:11 45:2 

submissions 5:22 

13:7 24:8 

submit 13:16,19 

14:4 20:16 24:4 

26:3 47:16 

submitted 5:17 

6:13 7:5,8,10,14 

7:198:4,11 11:10 

26:5 34:15 39:11 

46:1347:11 

subparagraph 31:8 

subsequent 5:22 

25:4 36:21 

subsequently 34:16 

suggest 38:19 

suggested 13:8 

sum 35:9 

supplemented 5:17 

support 9:14 23:8 

29:8 

supported 41:2 

supports 9:14 

supposed 4:20 

sure4:3 12:9 13:11 

17:21 18:1629:1 

40:20 44:20 48:3 

48:8 

SW 2:9,19 

table 47:7 

tag 17:22 

take5:16 9:18 10:4 

21:11,14 

taken 4:21 

talk 22:21 48:22 

talking 34:22 

tax 16:1420:11,15 

20:17,20,22 21:18 

teleconference 1:17 

33:18 

telephone 3.4 

tell 17:15 28:10 

29:1044:13 

telling 29:21 

tells 45:16 

terms 23:6 34:1 

terrific 38:7,11 

testimony 9:13 

thank 30:5 49:12 

49:19 

Thanks 39:17 

thick 10:6 

thing 17:22 19:21 

24:7 46:7 48:4,6,8 

48:11 

things6:12 11:2 

42:15 

think4:8 6:20 10:7 

16:11 17:2 20:15 

21:1228:1929:13 

33:21,22 34:1 

35:2,6 36:8,18 

37:7,2! 38:18 

40:6 44:9,17 

thinking33:6 

thought4:20 24:9 

three 20:12,14,17 

21:4 28:21 31:16 

34:7 

throw 29:12 

Thursday 13:1 

Till! 2:9 

time3:124:12,17 

5:6,19 10:17 

27:19 

times 13:18 39:19 

todav 10:19 17:14 

19:3 

told27:19 29:6 

total 26:10.13 

32:11 33:19 

totality 35:21 

totally 25; 13 37:6 

transcribe 3:10 

transcript 3:14 

5:21 6:2.15,16,19 

6:22 7:3,10 10:1 

47:11,1748:19 

transcripts 6:7 

transmission 12:1 

transportation 1:1 

42:19 

trial 6:4 

tried 35:7 

true33:1737:15 

try 12:3 16:19 29:8 

41:5 

Pag e 54 

trying 4:3 10:15 

"12:18 30:22 32:9 

35:9 36:22 39:7 

42:11 

two 20:10 24:9 25:8 

26 

29 

32 

46 

9 27:3 28:13 

931:1,1 32:10 

10,1333:8.17 

21 

types 41:1 

U 

underlying 3 7:9 

Undersecretary 

42:17 

understand 3:17 

6:1,9 11:4 13:12 

15:6,9 23:18.19 

25:9 30:19 34:13 

36:5.6,17 39:12 

40:8,14,21 42:1,2 

42:10 43:2 45:6 

45:15,22 46:1 

47:9 

understandable 

15:13 

undertake 8:22 

undue 22:14 

upgraded 41:21 

UPS 10:22 

use 18:3 46:2 

U.S]:1 44:10 

vl:12 

value 19:15,20 

37:17,21 38:2 

view 35:17 43:7 

violated 33:22 

violation 14:16 

15:18 25:6,8,13 

25:17 26:21 27:12 

29:7,22 31:5.6 

32:2,7 

violations 24:10 

25:9 26:7.9 27:3 

27:22 28:6,13,21 

29:9,11.1531:1 

Neal R. Gross & Co., 

202-234-4433 

Inc. 
Pag e 55 

32:11 33:21 34:20 

35:2041:11 42:16 

Virginia 2:4 11:6 

voice 4:4 

\ \ 

Wallaesa 1:13 2:3 

5,13 5:8,96:21 

2,4,7,12,16.19 

3.7 9:1.2.2.17 

20 ]0;2,12,18 

4.9.16 12:2,6 

11.15,17,22 

2.14 15:7.9 

22 17:11,19 

9,10.13.18.21 

8,13.1821:1,7 

9,15,21 22:3.5 

1723:19,22 

3,13,19.21 

4 40:22 42:1 

11 43:14,15 

1.8,16.20 46:1 

13 47:2.15,20 

5.i0.i749:I0 

12 

13 

16 

18 

19 

21 

22 

24 

34 

42 

44 

46 

48 

49 

want4:2 12:20 

13:11.22 14:20 

15:22 16:1920:9 

22:5.7,9,20 30:2 

40:20.20 43:5.12 

43:1945:6 46:15 

46:22 48:7.15 

wanted 24:7 

warn 14:22 

warrant33;9 34:10 

warranted 32:13 

warranting37:13 

Washington 2:10 

2:20 

wasn't 7:14 32:18 

wav8:l,19 13:15 

15:1531:1738:12 

week 10:10.16.18 

12:7 

weeks 46:21 

went3:12 5:14 

27:13 28:5 47:6 

West 11:6 

we'll 12:3,13 22:2 

48:12 

we're3:3 8:2 9:16 

30:21,22 32:8,9,9 

33:8 34:8.22 35:8 

36:4,22 

we've 33:3 48:15 

whatsoever 46:5 

47:6 

whiz 33:6 

willing 17:12 

win 34:6 

wind 11:5.6 36:19 

witnesses 9:10 

words 27:16 

Wortham 2:4 

wouldn't 10:4 

wrong 25:11 42:13 

44:19 

wrote 38:6 

year 20:19 

years 16:14 20:10 

20:12.14,16,17 

21:441:1344:18 

YODER 1:22 3:3 

3:21 4:2 6:9 7:1,6 

7:9,14,17,21 8:6 

8:12,189:4,7,22 

10:9,14,20 11:5 

11:13,19 12:3,9 

12:13,16,19 13:1 

13:3,21 15:8,14 

17:1.9,13.18 18:1 

18:7,11,14.20 

19:1,10,14,19 

20:1421:3.8,10 

21:20 22:1,4,7,18 

23:21 24:2,6.14 

24:20 25:3,18,22 

26:12 27:5,9,15 

28:8.1629:1,19 

30:4,6,12,16 31:3 

31:11.15,18,22 

32:3,5,1733:1,11 

34:13 35:3 36:5 

36:10,1437:19 

38:13 39:6,17 

40:17,1942:6,10 

43:12,1844:6,15 

44:17,22 46:7,20 

47:9,1648:3,7,12 

48:1849:10,12,20 

$ 

$10,00041:21 

$10,000.00 25:2 

$11,000 25:541:10 

41:22 

$33,000.00 24:11 

$3300 36:10 

$4,399 31:21 

$5,500 22:10 

$550 31:21 

$5500 25:16 26:11 

26:18,20 27:4,11 

28:20 29:6 32:11 

33:10,13 34:11,11 

34:15,17 47:8 

$5500.00 23:9 

24:18 25:8 

$5550 36:1 

1 

1125:5 

11272 2:4 

121.317(f) 28:6 

31:2 

121.317(k)28:6 

31:2 

121.580 25:13,16 

26:21 30:20 32:12 

32:21 

14th 48:16 

15 12:16,19 22:2 

15th 12:15,18,21 

30:1048:16,17,18 

48:19 

1612:10 

1841:1344:18 

198945:14 

21:16 

2:59 3:2 

2010:7 

2008 21:5 

2009 21:5 

201021:4 

20109 2:4 

201130:10 

20121:16 

202 2:10,22 

20591 2:10,20 

2150.3(b) 31:7 

2153(b)45:5 

23rd49:l,15 

267-7381 2:22 

267-9958 2:10 

3 

3:00 1:19 

3:47 49:22 

30 10:7 

3153(b) 34:20 

317(031:6 32:2,14 

32:19 33:9.20 

35:15,20 

317(k)31:5 32:14 

32:20 33:9,20 

35:20 

41706 44:10 

42003 44:11 

4630144:11 

46301(a)(5)4 

4942:15 

570 2:5 

58027:12 28:3 29:7 

33:5,6 34:16,18 

35:13,14,20 

6 28:4 30:931:14 

34:8 35:14 

730:9 34:8 35:15 

778-1335 2:5 

8 

8 30:9 34:8 35:7 

800 2:9.19 

9 10:21 12:4 

9th 10:21 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
56 

CERTIFICAT E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of; Brian Wallaesa: Pre-Hearing Conf 

Before: US DOT 

Date: 03-02-12 

Place: teleconference 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRfBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202)2344433 WASHINGTON,DC 20005-3/01 www.realrgrosscom