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S. HRG. 111–556 

NOMINATION OF CARYN A. WAGNER 

TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF HOMELAND 

SECURITY FOR INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS 

AND NOMINATION OF PHILIP S. GOLDBERG 

TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE 

FOR INTELLIGENCE AND RESEARCH 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE 

OF THE

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

DECEMBER 1, 2009 

Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Intelligence 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate 

(II) 

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE 

[Established by S. Res. 400, 94th Cong., 2d Sess.] 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California, Chairman 

CHRISTOPHER S. BOND, Missouri, Vice Chairman 

JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia 

RON WYDEN, Oregon 

EVAN BAYH, Indiana 

BARBARA A. MIKULSKI, Maryland 

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin 

BILL NELSON, Florida 

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine 

SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia 

RICHARD BURR, North Carolina 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho 

HARRY REID, Nevada, Ex Officio 

MITCH MCCONNELL, Kentucky, Ex Officio 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan, Ex Officio 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona, Ex Officio 

DAVID GRANNIS, Staff Director 

LOUIS B. TUCKER, Minority Staff Director 

KATHLEEN P. MCGHEE, Chief Clerk 

(III) 

CONTENTS 

DECEMBER 1, 2009 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Feinstein, Hon. Dianne, Chairman, a U.S. Senator from California .................. 1 

Bond, Hon. Christopher S., Vice Chairman, a U.S. Senator from Missouri ....... 3 

WITNESSES 

Wagner, Caryn A., Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Intelligence 

and Analysis-Designate ....................................................................................... 4 

Goldberg, Philip S., Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research-Designate .................................................................................................. 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 8 

SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIAL 

Questionnaire for Completion by Presidential Nominees for Caryn A. Wagner 20 

Prehearing Questions for the Record and Responses of Ms. Wagner ................. 33 

Questions for the Record and Responses of Ms. Wagner ..................................... 53 

Letter from Robert I. Cusick, Office of Government Ethics, Dated November 

17, 2009, Transmitting Public Financial Disclosure Report for Ms. Wagner . 59 

Questionnaire for Completion by Presidential Nominees for Philip S. Goldberg ........................................................................................................................ 69

Prehearing Questions for the Record and Responses of Mr. Goldberg ............... 90 

Questions for the Record and Responses of Mr. Goldberg ................................... 105 

Letter from Robert I. Cusick, Office of Government Ethics, Dated November 

2, 2009, Transmitting Public Financial Disclosure Report for Mr. Goldberg . 110 

(1) 

NOMINATION OF CARYN A. WAGNER 

TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF HOMELAND 

SECURITY FOR INTELLIGENCE AND 

ANALYSIS AND NOMINATION OF 

PHILIP S. GOLDBERG TO BE 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE 

FOR INTELLIGENCE AND RESEARCH 

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2009 

U.S. SENATE, 

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:33 p.m., in Room 

SH–216, Hart Senate Office Building, the Honorable Dianne Feinstein (Chairman of the Committee) presiding. 

Committee Members Present: Senators Feinstein, Wyden, Feingold, Whitehouse, Bond, and Risch. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DIANNE FEINSTEIN, 

CHAIRMAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. The meeting will come to order. 

The committee meets today to consider two nominations to the 

intelligence community in positions that require Senate confirmation. They are Ambassador Philip Goldberg, nominated to be the 

Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, which we fondly know as INR, and Ms. Caryn Wagner, 

nominated to be Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Intelligence and Analysis, or I&A. 

I’d like to welcome both of you and say congratulations. 

Both individuals were nominated by President Obama on October 26th. They have since met with me and other members of the 

committee and have responded to numerous prehearing questions. 

Their responses are now posted on the Intelligence Committee’s 

website for public view. 

Interestingly enough, both nominees come from different backgrounds and are nominated to lead two very different intelligence 

organizations. 

Ambassador Goldberg is nominated to lead an organization with 

a very distinguished and respected history. The State Department 

Bureau of Intelligence & Research conducts all-source intelligence 

analysis to advise the Secretary of State and other senior department officials and serves as an active participant in intelligence 

community-wide analytic products. Its analysts, while far fewer in 

2 

number than the all-source analysis organizations at the CIA and 

DIA, are highly expert in their fields and have no qualms about vocally dissenting from judgments they believe to be incorrect or unsubstantiated, and that’s very much appreciated. 

One example of importance to me was INR’s view in the 2002 

NIE on Iraq that Iraq was not reconstituting nuclear weapons, especially due to INR’s different view on the use of aluminum tubes 

in centrifuges. That obviously proved to be correct. 

Ambassador Goldberg himself has been long involved in national 

security issues and has received intelligence throughout his career 

but has no past experience inside the intelligence community. We 

will be very interested in hearing Ambassador Goldberg’s views on 

his preparations to assume the responsibility. 

Ambassador Goldberg is a career Foreign Service officer. He has 

distinguished himself over a 20-year period, including Charge d’affaires and Deputy Chief of mission in Santiago, Chile, Chief of Mission in Pristina, Kosovo, and United States Ambassador to Bolivia. 

Since June he has served as the coordinator for the implementation 

of United Nations resolutions on North Korea. Earlier in his career 

he served in Bogota, Colombia, and Pretoria, South Africa. Of particular note is his being declared persona non grata by Bolivian 

President Evo Morales in September of 2008. The committee has 

looked at this incident, and members may have a few questions, 

but it’s pretty clear to me that Ambassador Goldberg had no blame 

in this matter. 

Ms. Wagner, by contrast, is a career intelligence professional, beginning as an Army SIGINT officer and rising to the level of captain. After three years on the House Intelligence Committee, Ms. 

Wagner joined the senior ranks of the DIA before becoming Director of the Intelligence Community Management staff, and subsequently the Assistant Deputy DNI and chief financial officer. She 

returned to the House Intelligence Committee as budget director 

and is now a faculty member of the Intelligence and Security Academy, LLC. 

She is being nominated to head the Office of Intelligence & Analysis at the Department of Homeland Security, which, unlike INR, 

is a young intelligence organization and one that has struggled to 

identify a clear mission and bring together an appropriate workforce. We have discussed that earlier. 

The committee’s report accompanying the FY 2010 intelligence 

authorization bill noted some of these concerns. They include that, 

as of this summer, contract personnel make up a staggering 63 percent of the workforce of the Office of Intelligence & Analysis, including a large percentage of its intelligence analysts. In my view, 

this is an inherently governmental function and should be done by 

the government, not by contractors. 

The office has written analysis that inappropriately analyzed legitimate activities of U.S. persons based in part on highly questionable and non-credible open-source information. In addition, the office has numerous and unclear missions, some of which overlap 

with work being done by other departments. According to the 

Homeland Security Institute, the office is unstable and lacks structures for budget and management accountability. I discussed that 

3 

this morning with Mrs. Wagner, and I actually believe she’s up to 

it. So we’ll see what comes. 

I’m told that the Office of Intelligence & Analysis has been drafting a plan to restructure and refine its mission, but the plan won’t 

be finalized until a new Under Secretary is confirmed. So that will 

be clearly, Ms. Wagner, your first big job. I think this committee 

will be very interested in your views as a professional on what the 

office should be doing and how it should be structured or restructured. 

Again, I welcome both witnesses, and I will turn to the Vice 

Chairman for any opening comments he might have. 

Vice Chairman BOND. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. 

You’ve laid down a tough gauntlet. We welcome both of the nominees and ask, do you have family members here or close friends 

who are supporting you today? Ms. Wagner? 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes. Thank you, Senator Bond. My husband, Chad 

Lash, is here with me. And I have numerous friends which I won’t 

name, because I will no doubt forget one. But I thank you. 

Vice Chairman BOND. We will recognize your husband. Welcome, 

sir. 

Ambassador. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. I have my colleagues from the State Department. 

Vice Chairman BOND. Well, thank you very much. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHRISTOPHER S. BOND, VICE 

CHAIRMAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM MISSOURI 

Vice Chairman BOND. While the public of ten hears about other 

elements of the intelligence community, the office each of you is 

nominated to head, INR at State and Intelligence & Analysis at the 

Department of Homeland Security, can and should be making valuable contributions to the community and to our national security. 

As the Chairman said, I also have had conversations with you 

and pointed out some things where we think you can enhance and 

improve the operations of intelligence. 

Now, Ambassador Goldberg, the Chair stole one of my best lines, 

but I wanted to say that few people in history can claim the honor 

of being expelled by the likes of Evo Morales. So it’s clear that 

you’ve already chalked up a major accomplishment, at least in my 

book, and I congratulate you on that. I’m interested to hear how 

you expect your experiences in Bolivia and other diplomatic posts 

will help you head an analytic shop. 

Ms. Wagner, a few months ago at a reception I had the pleasure 

of sitting next to a former MI–5 official who shared some insights 

on the importance in this war on terror of forging solid and productive relationships among federal, state and local law enforcement 

agencies. His point to me was that what the Brits do and we do 

not do is use the contacts we have, the continuing contacts we have 

with state and local officials, to task them to bring information up 

the chain of command. We send information down, but a local police department or a local sheriff’s office is far more likely to know 

when or hear when something amiss is going on in their community and report that back up the chain. 

4 

So we’ve talked about that. And I think that while it’s very important—and I hear complaints that not enough intelligence is 

being pushed downstream—there may not be enough intelligence 

coming upstream from thousands of communities. And we hope 

that you will pursue that. 

We can make fusion centers work, but there’s a lot of intelligence, I believe, that can be best gathered at the local level. On 

the federal level, we need to make a firmer commitment to training 

these local authorities to identify and collect the intelligence. 

Now, Ms. Wagner, if you’re confirmed, I expect you’ll work closely with Director Mueller and the Attorney General in the coming 

months to make better training programs a reality. They can be 

done without a lot of additional cost, but the benefits will more 

than compensate for any price they cost. 

Madam Chair, I’m sure that both of these nominees are anxiously awaiting our questions, and even more importantly, their 

exit strategy from Hart 216. So with that, I congratulate them on 

their nominations and look forward to hearing from them today. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you very much, Senator. 

Ms. WAGNER, why don’t we begin with you, if that’s all right? 

STATEMENT OF CARYN A. WAGNER, UNDER SECRETARY 

OF HOMELAND SECURITY FOR INTELLIGENCE 

AND ANALYSIS-DESIGNATE 

Ms. WAGNER. Thank you very much, Senator Feinstein, Senator 

Bond. I’m honored to appear before you today as the nominee for 

Under Secretary for Intelligence & Analysis at the Department of 

Homeland Security. I believe this position occupies a unique mission space between the national intelligence and law enforcement 

communities and the state, local, tribal and private sector entities 

that are the front lines of homeland security. There’s nothing more 

important than forging and fostering those connections. 

If confirmed, I believe I have the right skills to continue building 

on the foundation laid by Pat Hughes, Charlie Allen and the current acting Under Secretary, Bart Johnson. 

I began my intelligence career as a signals intelligence officer in 

the United States Army, serving eight years on active duty. In the 

years since, I have spent seven and a half years at DIA, five years 

on the staff at the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, three years in the private sector and three years with the 

ODNI. 

I’ve had a mixture of staff and line management jobs, including 

leading a 2,000-person analytic organization within the Defense Intelligence Agency. I’ve also had a great deal of experience in an 

interagency environment, and I’m familiar with all facets of the intelligence community. 

While my experience with law enforcement has been more limited, I have had significant exposure while working at the DNI and 

in Congress to the capabilities and contributions of national law 

enforcement and homeland security agencies. 

I know I have much to learn about state, local and tribal law enforcement, which is why, if confirmed, I’m eager to get started with 

the help of Principal Deputy Under Secretary for Intelligence & 

Analysis Bart Johnson, who’s a highly respected and decorated vetVerDate Nov 24 2008 12:04 Aug 03, 2010 Jkt 055045 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\56433.TXT SHAUN PsN: DPROCT
5 

eran of the New York State police force and who’s done an outstanding job as acting Under Secretary for the past six months. 

I’ve had the opportunity to observe the Office of Intelligence & 

Analysis from the outside while I served in the Office of the DNI 

and on the HPSCI staff, and I am aware of the many challenges 

that the organization faces. Since my nomination, I’ve learned more 

about I&A’s statutory mission, its ongoing activities, and the Secretary’s vision about where she would like to take the department. 

I’ve formed some preliminary views on what needs to be done to 

enhance I&A’s support to its customers and to the department and 

to improve its standing within the intelligence community and with 

its congressional overseers. 

If confirmed, I plan to focus my initial efforts in three main 

areas: First, creating a true Homeland Security information-sharing enterprise through greater focus on the state and local fusion 

centers; second, creating a DHS intelligence enterprise as the chief 

intelligence officer for the department; and third, putting in place 

the management processes necessary to improve the morale, efficiency and professionalism of I&A as an organization. 

The unique niche that DHS I&A occupies is best defined by its 

responsibility to share information with state, local and tribal authorities and the private sector on the full range of threats to the 

homeland, often referred to as all threats, all hazards. First responders at the state and local level are the nation’s first line of 

defense. They are uniquely able to identify anomalous or criminal 

behavior that could have a terrorist nexus. It’s critical to educate 

them on terrorist indicators as they are identified, to capture information that is lawfully obtained while strictly adhering to privacy, 

civil rights and civil liberties regulations, and share it with the 

wider enterprise. 

This is a multi-faceted challenge that requires adapting analytic 

methodologies and product lines, a great deal of training at all levels of the enterprise and IT and information-sharing solutions to 

enable two-way information flow. It also requires an approach that 

is tailored to the different threat and operational realities of the individual fusion centers. 

If confirmed, I intend to develop a comprehensive multi-year 

strategic plan for supporting the state and local fusion centers that 

can be used to guide resource and analytic planning. 

The role of the Chief Intelligence Officer for the Department was 

created by Secretary Chertoff to empower the Under Secretary to 

create a DHS intelligence enterprise that was more than the sum 

of its parts. DHS’ operational components have intelligence elements that support their individual missions and they also have 

data and expertise that can be leveraged by I&A in support of departmental priorities or national, state, local and tribal clients, 

while strictly adhering to privacy, civil rights and civil liberties regulations. 

In addition, the components may have intelligence or information 

requirements that are not adequately being met. I&A can help to 

meet these requirements by leveraging the rest of the intelligence 

community on their behalf, producing tailored products for or with 

them, providing analytic training and mentoring, and serving as an 

advocate for increasing their capabilities. By leveraging both the 

6 

components’ and I&A capabilities, we can build on recent progress 

to create a true intelligence enterprise that enables I&A and the 

Department to achieve their full potential and best serve their customers. 

If confirmed, I will view the role of Chief Intelligence Officer for 

the Department as one of the most important of my missions, and 

put in place a staff structure to manage it. 

Finally, in the management arena, I&A is still a young organization, and several recent studies have suggested that it suffers from 

a lack of institutionalized processes and from poor morale. If confirmed, one of my biggest priorities will be developing and formalizing internal processes for planning, programming and budgeting, for performance measurement and human capital management, measurement, and most certainly I will be taking a hard 

look at contractors. I believe that communicating clear mission 

guidance, implementing fair and transparent processes for hiring, 

promoting, and rewarding people and developing a structured and 

inclusive process for building the budget will go a long way towards 

improving morale. 

If confirmed, I also plan to make training a centerpiece of my 

agenda. I’ve already mentioned the importance of training to building information-sharing and intelligence enterprises, but it is 

equally important for professional development and morale within 

I&A. If confirmed, I will focus on ensuring that I&A analysts receive the tradecraft training they need. 

Finally, if confirmed, I will work hard to establish and maintain 

constructive partnerships, particularly with the Office of the DNI, 

the National Counterterrorism Center, the FBI and the Congress. 

If confirmed, I pledge to keep you fully informed of I&A’s progress 

and activities. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you very much. Mr. Goldberg—Ambassador I should say. 

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE PHILIP S. GOLDBERG, 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTELLIGENCE 

AND RESEARCH-DESIGNATE 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Madam Chairman and Mr. Vice Chairman, it is a great honor to appear before you today as President 

Obama’s nominee to be Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau 

of Intelligence and Research. I am grateful to the President and 

Secretary of State Clinton for their confidence in nominating me for 

this position, as well as to the Director of National Intelligence, 

Dennis Blair, for his support in my nomination. If confirmed by the 

Senate, I pledge to work closely with this Committee as it plays a 

vital role in the oversight of the intelligence community. 

Madam Chairman, INR has been a treasured source of information and analysis for policymakers for more than 60 years. INR is 

also a deeply respected voice within the intelligence community. 

INR’s success has not been based on its size or budget. Rather, it 

has been based on the extraordinary experience, judgment and analytical skill of its personnel. 

INR’s well-earned reputation for insight and professionalism is 

based on a mix of civil and foreign service personnel, a combination 

7 

of those who spend years and often decades on an issue, buttressed 

by those with recent experience in our embassies overseas. If confirmed, I will work to enhance the ability of these fine professionals 

to do their jobs through training, academic opportunities, and service overseas. And I will work to recruit the finest people available. 

I will also defend both the process of independent and unbiased 

analysis as well as the people who produce it. As you point out, 

Madam Chairman, the people of INR have in recent times won 

praise for the quality of their work as well as sticking to their analytic conclusions when necessary. 

INR has another essential role: assuring that intelligence activities are consistent with, and supportive of, our foreign policy and 

national security objectives. In this area too, INR is fortunate to 

have a staff of professionals who have special expertise and years 

of experience in often very technical areas. 

If confirmed, I look forward to working with these professionals 

to support the Secretary and Department in assuring that foreign 

policy concerns are a central consideration in intelligence community decisions and activities. I will also work with the relevant committees of Congress as they carry out their essential oversight 

roles. 

Madam Chairman, I believe that, if confirmed, I would bring a 

set of skills and experience to the job of Assistant Secretary for Intelligence and Research that will add to the value of the bureau. 

While I have not previously served in a position in the intelligence 

community, I’ve had extensive and relevant experience in almost 

all aspects of INR’s core functions. 

I have worked closely with analysts in the intelligence community as a political, economic and biographic officer at embassies 

overseas in helping to produce analytical products. In addition, I 

have myself produced analytic products for policymakers, from assignments in embassies as well as in Washington. This experience 

has given me a strong appreciation for the independence, intellectual rigor, experience and personal integrity that contribute to good 

analytical products. Having worked on policy matters in four geographic bureaus and on the seventh floor of the department, I have 

a strong appreciation for how intelligence can best support diplomacy and its practitioners. This is INR’s primary mission. 

As a Charge d’affaires and two-time chief of mission, I have ensured that intelligence and law enforcement activities were carried 

out in support of foreign policy and national security objectives. 

Most recently, I have served as Coordinator for Implementation of 

U.N. Security Council Resolutions on North Korea, a job that requires analysis of intelligence information and close coordination 

with other intelligence community members. My experience leading 

large and complex missions overseas, as well as managerial assignments at the State Department, have prepared me to lead this 

large bureau. 

Madam Chairman, we live in a time of enormous foreign policy 

and national security challenges. On issues of war and peace, nonproliferation, climate change, and the economic and financial situation around the globe, our leaders need and deserve the very best 

information and analysis before making difficult decisions. If conVerDate Nov 24 2008 12:04 Aug 03, 2010 Jkt 055045 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 C:\DOCS\56433.TXT SHAUN PsN: DPROCT
8 

firmed by the Senate, I look forward to working with you and your 

colleagues to make sure that happens. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Ambassador Goldberg follows.] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF PHILIP S. GOLDBERG, NOMINEE FOR ASSISTANT SECRETARY

OF STATE FOR INTELLIGENCE AND RESEARCH

Madam Chairman and Members of the Committee, it is a great honor to appear 

before you today as President Obama’s nominee to be Assistant Secretary of State 

for the Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR). I am grateful to the President 

and Secretary of State Clinton for their confidence in nominating me for this position, as well as to the Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, for his support 

of my nomination. If confirmed by the Senate, I pledge to work closely with this 

Committee as it plays a vital role in dealing with the many difficult and complex 

issues that confront the United States around the world. 

Madam Chairman, INR has been a treasured source of information and analysis 

for policymakers for more than 60 years. INR is also a deeply respected voice within 

the Intelligence Community. INR’s success has not been based on its size or budget. 

Rather, it has been based on the extraordinary experience, judgment and analytical 

skill of its personnel. The Bureau’s personnel define expertise—an average of 10 

years on account among all analysts, a third of the analytical body with PhDs in 

their areas, and most analysts with command of the language or languages relevant 

to their portfolios. INR’s well-earned reputation for insight and professionalism is 

based on a mix of Civil and Foreign Service personnel—a combination of those who 

spend years and often decades on an issue, buttressed by those with recent experience in the field. If confirmed, I will work to enhance the ability of these fine professionals to do their jobs through training, academic opportunities, and service overseas. I will work to recruit the finest people available. I will work to defend both 

the process of independent and unbiased analysis as well as the people who produce 

it. If confirmed, I would be proud to lead a group of people who have in recent times 

won praise for both the quality of its work as well as its willingness to stick to its 

analytic conclusions when necessary. 

INR has another essential role: assuring that intelligence activities are consistent 

with, and supportive of, our foreign policy and national security objectives. In this 

area too, INR is fortunate to have a staff of professionals who have special expertise 

and years of experience in often very technical areas. If confirmed, I look forward 

to working with these professionals to support the Secretary and Department in assuring that foreign policy concerns are a central consideration in Intelligence Community decisions and activities. I will also work with the relevant committees of 

Congress as they carry out their essential oversight roles. 

Madam Chairman, I believe that, if confirmed, I would bring a set of skills and 

experience to the job of Assistant Secretary for Intelligence and Research that will 

add to the value of the bureau. While I have not previously served in a position in 

the Intelligence Community, I have had extensive and relevant experience in almost 

all aspects of INR’s core functions. As a political, economic and biographic officer 

at embassies overseas, I have worked closely with analysts in the Intelligence Community to produce analytical products. In addition, I have myself produced analytic 

reports for policymakers, from assignments in embassies overseas as well as in 

Washington. This experience has given me a strong appreciation for the independence, intellectual rigor, experience and personal integrity that contribute to good analytical products. Having worked on policy matters in four geographic bureaus and 

on the seventh floor of the department, I have a strong appreciation for how intelligence can best support diplomacy and its practitioners. This is INR’s primary mission. 

As a Charge d’affaires and two-time chief of mission, I have ensured that intelligence and law enforcement activities were carried out in support of foreign policy 

and national security objectives. Most recently, I have served as Coordinator for Implementation of United Nations Security Council Resolutions on North Korea, a job 

that requires analysis of intelligence information and close coordination with other 

IC members. My experience leading large and complex missions overseas, as well 

as managerial assignments at the State Department, have prepared me to lead this 

large bureau. 

Madam Chairman, we live in a time of enormous foreign policy and national security challenges. On issues of war and peace, non-proliferation, climate change, and 

the economic and financial situation around the globe, our leaders need and deserve 

the very best information and analysis before making difficult decisions. If conVerDate Nov 24 2008 12:04 Aug 03, 2010 Jkt 055045 PO 00000 Frm 00012 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6621 C:\DOCS\56433.TXT SHAUN PsN: DPROCT
9 

firmed by the Senate, I look forward to working with you and your colleagues to 

make sure that happens. 

Thank you. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you. Thank you both very, very 

much. 

I have a list of four questions that we ask all nominees, if you 

would just respond yes or no to each of them. The first is do you 

agree to appear before the Committee here or in other venues when 

invited? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Yes. 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. I often wonder what we would do if someone said no. Okay. 

Vice Chairman BOND. We would confirm them. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Yes. 

Vice Chairman BOND. I gather Ms. Wagner nodded yes. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. She said yes. 

Vice Chairman BOND. I didn’t hear her up here. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. I heard her. Do you agree to send officials 

from your respective organizations to appear before the committee 

and designated staff when requested? 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Yes. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Do you agree to provide documents and 

any other material requested by the committee in order for it to 

carry out its oversight and legislative responsibilities? 

Ms. WAGNER. To the best of my ability yes. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. The same, to the best of my ability yes. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. What does that mean? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. As far as the INR bureau goes and as 

far as I’m concerned, I will share whatever we can. There are some 

issues that from time to time might come up about document executive privilege and the rest that might be beyond my control to 

share. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Well, let me just say this is the first time 

anybody has qualified their answer, and that’s going to have to be 

looked into more deeply because this committee expects to get documents it requests. We are the oversight committee and to have intelligence agencies without the ability to conduct oversight is not 

acceptable to us. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. No, I—— 

Vice Chairman BOND. Madam Chair, I might add that the President has a right to declare things at higher security levels and we 

would, before we would accept that, we would need to know from 

the White House that this was something over which they’re exercising their national security authority. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Well, that’s right, Mr. Vice Chairman. 

Vice Chairman BOND. And we would carry our argument down 

to 1600. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. That’s right. And executive privilege can’t 

be a drift net to pick up everything that people don’t want to have 

oversight about. And that’s where we become the guardian angel, 

so to speak. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG [continuing]. Absolutely. 

10 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Just so you understand that. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Madam Chairman, I didn’t at all mean 

to say otherwise. We, from our point of view and from my point of 

view, would share all information requested by the committee. 

That was the qualification and it really isn’t a qualification; it’s 

something that would be beyond my control. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Well, I just want everybody to know if the 

committee were to ask for it, we expect to get it unless there’s not 

a good reason—— 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. I understand. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN [continuing]. Or you’re going to have to tangle with us and you don’t want to do that. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. No. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Okay. Last question. Will you ensure that 

your respective offices provide such material to the committee 

when requested? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Yes. 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Okay. Let me ask each one of you one 

question and then I’ll move on. Ms. Wagner, in testimony before 

the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee on 

September 30 of this year, DHS Secretary Napolitano noted that 

I&A is ‘‘currently undergoing an important realignment to 

strengthen the delivery of useful, actionable intelligence to state 

and local law enforcement based on their particular needs.’’ Here’s 

the question. Have you been briefed on this realignment and do 

you support it? 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes, Madam Chairman, I have been briefed. 

And the realignment is still ongoing. It has not been finalized, 

but Bart Johnson did brief me on what he is proposing to do at the 

top level. I think it makes sense, but I would like to reserve the 

right, if confirmed, to be able to make adjustments to that, and so 

I would prefer to come up and brief you after I’m confirmed, if I’m 

confirmed, on where that is. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Well, if I understand you correctly, you’re 

saying that you will have some input into the realignment. 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes, Madam Chairman. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. And therefore it is not finalized and that 

you would—— 

Ms. WAGNER. It is not finalized. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN [continuing]. Well, we will take you at your 

word because I think it’s fair to say that there’s some weaknesses 

in your area and we’d like to see them corrected, so the correction 

that you can bring about could be very important and we’d like to 

have you discuss that with us, if that’s agreeable with you. 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes, Madam Chairman. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you very much. 

Let me move to Mr. Goldberg. We talked this morning about the 

fact that you have not previously worked in an intelligence agency 

or produced intelligence analysis. Now, you do have significant experience in a lot of different areas—in receiving it in particular. 

And so, in my view at least, you’re clearly qualified for this work. 

But can you give the committee some specific examples from your 

11 

background of when you have provided judgments that run counter 

to policy preferences? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. I think the kinds of policy analysis and 

just plain analytical work that I’ve done, particularly on the Balkans in the 1990s, oftentimes was in a difficult atmosphere. When 

we were debating within the United States government about 

whether to intervene first in Bosnia, later in Kosovo, and those 

kinds of issues were ones that I was fortunate enough to be able 

to weigh in on and give my unvarnished view on, I think in part 

because of the people I worked for, but also because I felt that it 

was important to do so. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you. I’m not going to ask you what 

your views were, but I think it’s very important. One of the things 

that we want to see are really independent intelligence agencies 

that give policymakers the unvarnished truth as they see it and 

are not swayed by what they perceive an administration or anybody else for that matter might want. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Absolutely. I agree. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you. 

Mr. Vice Chairman. 

Vice Chairman BOND. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Following up, Ms. Wagner, on the questions from the Chair, 

what do you think should be the primary focus of I&A—operational 

support of its components and fusion centers, disseminating finished intelligence products and unclassified information, or some 

other thing? And what would be your priorities? 

Ms. WAGNER. Senator Bond, I think that the primary mission of 

I&A is spelled out in the legislation. What Congress expects of it 

is to share information with the state, local, tribal, and private sector entities. And I&A, as far as I can tell, is the only element of 

the intelligence community that views those people as its primary 

customer set. It also, as a departmental intelligence element, has 

the responsibility to support the other elements of the department 

and to sort of orchestrate the intelligence symphony, if you will, of 

the intelligence elements within the various components. 

So I think those two things are key, but it also goes back to what 

you had said in your opening comments, that sharing flows both 

ways. We need to make sure that they’re the clients, but we also 

need to be aware that they have a wealth of information that needs 

to be synthesized and analyzed and shared with the larger intelligence community to support national intelligence as well. 

Vice Chairman BOND. Do you think you’d be able to provide 

training for the representatives of the local law enforcement agencies so they will be able to carry back to their forces, to their 

teams, what information, what activities may be useful? Do you see 

that being—— 

Ms. WAGNER. I do. I think that the department and I&A can do 

a lot by providing training. I know the Secretary wants to support 

analytic excellence at the fusion centers. That’s certainly an area 

where I&A can help with training, and the department is already 

helping with developing training on ensuring that privacy, civil 

rights and civil liberties are protected. And at the fusion centers 

there’s a great deal that can be done, and I think training is a key 

element. 

12 

Vice Chairman BOND [continuing]. Thank you, Ms. Wagner. 

Ambassador, you said, ‘‘On issues of war and peace, nonproliferation, climate change and the economic and financial situation 

around the globe, our leaders need and deserve the very best information and analysis before making difficult decisions.’’ Do you really believe that studying climate change is really the best use of our 

limited intelligence analysis resources? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. I believe that it is one area. It is largely 

a scientific issue and probably not INR’s—necessarily its competence to judge. But we are involved in negotiations in the climate 

change area, and policymakers would need information and analysis on the positions of others and how they would approach these 

issues. And so it would be more in line with our more traditional 

diplomatic role. 

Vice Chairman BOND. All right. Well, I assume, given recent revelations, you might be looking into the process of some of the analysis that came out of certain so-called scientific institutions. But 

that may be beyond your scope. 

I mentioned to you that INR has developed a reputation for being 

a dissenting voice in intelligence community products. And I think 

some INR analysts believe this is a positive, but I’ve heard from 

others that it may be a negative because continuing dissent may 

make those views ignored. What’s your view about this type of reputation? Is it a problem? What could you do to change the perception without impacting INR’s independence? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. I think, Mr. Vice Chairman, that the 

reputation of INR is also for feistiness and independence, which is 

something to be encouraged in the production of intelligence analysis. 

I took your statement very much to heart when we had a chance 

to meet, and I went back to look at estimates this year. And without going into the details of the estimates, there was less than— 

I think it was three out of 13 that there were either—two of them 

were dissents in part and one was more or less a more general dissent. So I don’t know that it’s a huge issue, but certainly I want 

to encourage our analysts to use their best judgment and to put 

their best thoughts forward. That’s I think my responsibility. 

Vice Chairman BOND. Finally, one of the responses you made to 

the committee’s questions—you said the role of the Assistant Secretary is ‘‘to play a key role in assuring that diplomatic and foreign 

policy positions are represented in the formulation of intelligence 

policy and activities.’’ Can you explain what that means? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. It means, Mr. Vice Chairman, that we 

have a responsibility to assure that foreign policy concerns are one 

consideration and that the regional assistant secretaries and the 

Secretary have a voice in that process. I would view INR’s role as 

very much that of an honest broker because we have a responsibility certainly to the intelligence community and we want to make 

sure that the intelligence flow continues. But foreign policy is one 

consideration, and that is a role that is designated to INR and to 

the State Department, so it’s one that within the councils of the IC 

is one of many factors that would be taken into consideration. 

Vice Chairman BOND. So policy positions would affect intelligence operations? 

13 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. No, sir. Maybe I didn’t express it well. 

It’s more of a risk-reward kind of issue, to point out the possible 

downsides, possible damage, the possible consequences if something 

happens so that that’s known up front before something would 

occur so that it can be taken into account at that time. 

Vice Chairman BOND. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you very much, Mr. Vice Chairman. 

Senator Whitehouse. 

Senator WHITEHOUSE. Thank you, Chairman Feinstein. 

Could I ask each of you, first of all, about cyber security issues? 

It does not appear in either of your statements as a matter of concern, and I’m interested in knowing, A—briefly, because my time 

is short—what type of a priority you think it is, and, B, whether 

additional efforts on the part of your agency should, you think, be 

required. 

Ms. WAGNER. Thank you, Senator. I’ll take that one. I think it 

is obviously a critical issue and it is something that I’ve already 

looked into in the limited time I’ve had as a nominee. I know there 

are ongoing analytic efforts as part of the Critical Infrastructure 

Protection Analysis effort at the department. I don’t know yet 

whether those are sufficient. I would expect, if I’m confirmed, one 

of the first things that I plan to do is to go talk to Phil Reitinger, 

who is the Deputy Under Secretary responsible for cyber, and talk 

to him about how I&A can effectively team with him to make sure 

he gets the analytic support that he needs. 

And I know that as this issue continues to evolve there’s probably room to sort out exactly who’s going to do what. But it’s an 

area I expect to focus on. I was the cyber security coordinator for 

the HPSCI before I retired, so I’m very familiar with some of those 

issues. 

Senator WHITEHOUSE. Good. Ambassador Goldberg. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Senator, I agree. It is an absolutely critical issue. It’s one that INR has taken the lead role in at the State 

Department in organizing us to deal with a critical issue. We are 

still in a bit of a state of flux on some of the cyber issues in terms 

of organization because INR, as the link with the intelligence community, has a very large role, but some of the issues that may be 

coming up in the years to come will be diplomatic missions, as well, 

and that’s not a traditional INR role. 

We are organized to deal with the internal issues for the State 

Department in terms of our cyber issues. I have already had a discussion, a brief one, with General Alexander about some of the 

larger issues involved. It’s going to be a very important foreign policy issue, as well. So we’re on it, and we need to continue to follow 

it very closely and we will. 

Senator WHITEHOUSE. On a second point, I think there is a 

strong bipartisan consensus on the part of this committee that we 

are sick to death of leaks out of the Executive Branch of government. And not only is it a bipartisan concern of this committee, but 

it’s a bipartisan issue. There was leaking like a sieve in the Bush 

administration. It doesn’t seem to have stopped with the change of 

administrations. And over and over again we are subjected to the 

unhelpful spectacle of, you know, having our staffs cleared out of 

14 

a room for some hyper-secure briefing that we then read about a 

day later in The New York Times. And I would like to hear what—leaking is politics in Washington. 

It’s the way people expand their turf and make their moves, and 

so a tolerance for it has developed that I think, frankly, needs to 

be adjusted. And I would like to hear both of you put yourselves 

on record on the subject of leaks, how seriously you will take their 

investigations, whether you will engage in them yourselves and 

how you consider that problem. Again, Ms. Wagner, if you could go 

first. 

Ms. WAGNER. Well, Senator, I share your concern about leaks 

and also your perspective on why they happen. I do take them seriously. If I am confirmed and I have reason to believe that anyone 

in my organization is leaking, I will deal with that as a matter of 

management accountability. If it rises to a level that it requires 

that a crimes report be submitted, I would certainly support doing 

that. 

So I share your concern, and I’ll take every action that I can to 

ensure that the leaks do not come from I&A if I’m confirmed. 

Senator WHITEHOUSE. Thank you. Ambassador. 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. I share Ms. Wagner’s statement. I would 

add that the personnel at INR are not involved in politics, and they 

shouldn’t be involved in politics. They have no business being involved in politics, and if a leak were to be seen to be coming even 

from our general direction, it’s something I would take very seriously. 

Senator WHITEHOUSE. And each of you may very well be called 

upon to be witnesses or to make your staff available as witnesses 

in investigations of leaks that may take place higher up, but the 

trail is back through information developed by your organization. 

I assume I can hear you say that you will provide your full cooperation unstintingly to such investigations? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Yes. 

Senator WHITEHOUSE. Thank you. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you very much. 

Before recognizing Senator Wyden, I’d like to point out that I 

have appointed a task force on cyber, which is a very serious concern to this committee. Senator Whitehouse heads that task force. 

Senator Mikulski and Senator Snowe are members, and they will 

be probably talking with you in a more serious nature at a later 

time. But it is of major importance to this committee, and I just 

wanted to have the opportunity to say that. 

Senator WYDEN. 

Senator WYDEN. Thank you, Madam Chair, and welcome to both 

nominees. 

Ms. Wagner, it seems to me there are some very serious problems that are now facing the Department of Homeland Security’s 

intelligence unit and I want to ask you specifically about your response to several of those. And let me start by reading you a brief 

excerpt from a report that the committee approved unanimously 

earlier this year. 

And I quote here: ‘‘The committee has raised a number of concerns with reports issued by the Department of Homeland Security 

Office of Intelligence and Analysis that inappropriately analyzed 

15 

the legitimate activities of U.S. persons. These reports raised fundamental questions about the mission of the Office of Intelligence 

and Analysis, and often used certain questionable open source information as a basis of their conclusions.’’ 

Now the committee is not talking here about one instance. They 

are talking about a pattern, and this report was approved unanimously by the entire committee. So my first question is, if you’re 

approved, what specific steps would you take to make sure that the 

office stops this inappropriate analysis of the legitimate activities 

of law-abiding Americans? 

Ms. WAGNER. Well, Senator Wyden, I am aware of some of the 

troubling products that have been released from I&A in the past. 

And, if I’m confirmed, I intend to attack that several different 

ways. There are a couple of issues that are reflected in this product. One is basically poor tradecraft, lack of analytical rigor. 

The other is the problem with the failure to take into proper account privacy, civil rights, civil liberties and First Amendment-protected speech. And the problem with the definitions in one particular product was it did not draw a sufficient distinction between 

beliefs and actions. So I would put in place a very strict tradecraft 

training program, to include mentoring for the analysts. 

I would also ensure that there is training for everyone on the 

guidelines that we are to follow that flow from E.O. 12333 and 

have been coordinated with the Justice Department to make sure 

that all of those concerns vis-a-vis privacy, civil rights and civil liberties are built into the products early on. And, finally, as a sort 

of insurance measure, I will make sure that there is in place a very 

thorough vetting process for review before those products are actually released. 

Senator WYDEN. Do you believe that it is ever appropriate for 

your office to analyze the legitimate activities of law-abiding Americans? 

Ms. WAGNER. No, Senator, I do not. 

Senator WYDEN. Okay. Now, the Homeland Security Institute— 

and they’re federally funded as a research center—conducted an 

independent evaluation of the office. The evaluation gave the office 

an overall ranking of 1.5 out of five with regard—I gather it’s 

called ‘‘general functionality.’’ In particular it noted: ‘‘Back office 

processes are ill-defined, inconsistent and ad hoc.’’ And they stated, 

‘‘Planning, programming and budget processes are ill-defined and 

lack division manager involvement.’’ Now you are a former chief financial officer for the agency, the budget director for the House Intelligence Committee. I assume you’re up on these general issues. 

Do you agree with the independent evaluation? 

Ms. WAGNER. Senator Wyden, I haven’t had an opportunity to be 

briefed on all these processes in detail, but as far as I know, the 

evaluation is accurate, and I expect to make addressing those management issues and processes one of my top priorities if I’m confirmed. 

Senator WYDEN. Since I’m running out of time, based on what 

you know now, what specific steps would you take to address these 

concerns from the independent analysis? 

Ms. WAGNER. It seems to me that the primary problem is a lack 

of repeatable and transparent processes that give people trust in 

16 

the organization and their leadership. And I think I would take 

steps to put those processes in place. I have done that before as the 

director for analysis and production at DIA leading a large analytic 

organization, and I think that I have the ability to address some 

of those issues. It will take a little bit of time, but I am going to 

make it a priority. 

Senator WYDEN. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Chairman FEINSTEIN. Thank you, Senator. Senator Feingold. 

Senator FEINGOLD. I thank the Chair and I want to thank the 

nominees for your willingness to serve in these positions. Last 

month, I had the pleasure of chairing a nomination hearing for 

Ambassador Goldberg at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 

so I’m going to address my questions to Ms. Wagner today. 

As Under Secretary for Intelligence and Analysis, you’ll have responsibility for setting policies related to the collection, analysis, 

mining, dissemination and retention of open-source information, including on Americans. And, as I know you’re aware, this is an important Homeland Security responsibility, but it’s also fraught with 

privacy and civil liberties implications. For example, DHS sent 

open-source information to the Maryland state police about the 

First Amendment-protected protest activities of local anti-war 

groups, something that Senators Mikulski and Cardin and I expressed concerns about earlier this year. 

Ms. Wagner, what in your mind constitutes open-source information on Americans? And what is I&A’s role in setting policies for 

how that information can be used? 

Ms. WAGNER. Senator Feingold, I believe there are well-established guidelines and processes already in place that just need to 

be followed, and the analysts need to be rigorously trained. The 

language in E.O. 12333 that protects U.S. persons’ data hasn’t 

changed since 1981. There are guidelines that I&A is using, should 

be using, that flow from that, and that, again, have been coordinated with the Department of Justice. 

I believe that training, oversight and review-and-release mechanisms are critical to ensure that we are only using data that it is 

appropriate and lawful for us to use in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Well, Director Blair has said it is one thing 

for a private company to have detailed private information. It is 

another for the U.S. government, with all its power and authority, 

to have the same information. So when is it appropriate for the 

government to purchase from private companies data on Americans 

not suspected of any wrongdoing? And should that information be 

considered open source? 

Ms. WAGNER. I don’t believe so, Senator. I think that for us to 

have information, it needs to be tied to a legitimate intelligence requirement that we can defend. It needs to be consistent with our 

legal authorities and it needs to be handled consistent with the privacy guidelines that are laid out in the documents that I mentioned 

earlier. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Okay. Then would it be fair to say—because 

a lot of Americans voluntarily put a lot of information on the Internet to be read by everyone, including government officials, would 

17 

it be fair to say that there are limits to how much of that information can be retained and when it can be subjected to data mining? 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes, I think there are limits, and, again, I think 

there are some very crucial legal tests that need to be met in dealing with that information. 

Senator FEINGOLD. The FBI’s authority to collect, retain, and use 

information on Americans are subject to statute and the Attorney 

General’s guidelines and oversight. This and other committees periodically debate whether those authorities are too broad or not 

broad enough and whether the checks and balances are adequate, 

but members of Congress generally know where to look to understand the legal framework for what the FBI does. I&A, on the 

other hand, is a new institution. It has operated with little specific 

legal guidance governing intelligence activities that have a potential impact on Americans. 

Ms. Wagner, as I&A policies continue to take shape, where 

should this guidance come from? Is there a role for the Department 

of Justice and have you identified unresolved constitutional or statutory questions or other gaps in the legal guidance currently available to I&A? And if you identified those gaps, how would you go 

about resolving them? 

Ms. WAGNER. I have not yet identified any gaps, but if I’m confirmed and I do, I think I intend to rely heavily on the department’s Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and the Privacy Office. I&A is in the process of hiring its own dedicated privacy officer. 

I would first look in-house for guidance on how to deal with appropriate information or programs, and then I would expect that 

we would deal with the Department of Justice if it required any 

changes to the guidelines that we currently operate under, which 

we did negotiate and consult with them on. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Okay. 

I’ve long been concerned about the lack of a meaningful standard 

governing the seizure of travelers’ laptop computers by the Department of Homeland Security. Can you tell me what I&A’s policy is 

for obtaining, retaining, analyzing, and disseminating the contents 

of seized laptops? 

Ms. WAGNER. Senator, as you know, I&A doesn’t actually seize 

the laptops, but under certain circumstances if data that was in the 

laptops was provided to I&A, we’ll treat it in accordance with all 

of the applicable laws and regulations on analyzing and storing 

that data. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Would you commit to considering a policy 

whereby DHS must seek to obtain a warrant before it can hold the 

contents of a seized laptop for more than 24 hours? 

Ms. WAGNER. Senator Feingold, I really don’t feel I’m in a position to answer that question right now. I just don’t know enough 

to answer it, but I’d be happy to come back and discuss that with 

you further if I am confirmed. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Could you get back to me as soon as you can 

with your response on that? 

Ms. WAGNER. Yes, I can. 

Senator FEINGOLD. Thank you. 

I thank the Chair. 

18 

Senator WYDEN [presiding]. I thank my colleague. 

Senator Risch, welcome. 

No questions? 

Senator RISCH. Pass. 

Senator WYDEN. Senator Whitehouse, additional questions? 

Senator WHITEHOUSE. I’m good. 

Senator WYDEN. Ambassador Goldberg, one question for you. 

What role, in your view, Ambassador, do you believe the Assistant 

Secretary should play in ensuring that intelligence-sharing relationships support broader diplomatic relationships and, obviously, 

vice versa? 

Ambassador GOLDBERG. Senator, I think intelligence relationships, among others that take place with foreign governments, are 

very important and very strong contributors to our national security. They have to be done, obviously, with great care. Our particular interest in INR is that the chief of mission and his or her 

authorities as delegated by the President and the authorities conferred by the President be respected as the oversight for the executive branch at the embassy. That is the particular State Department interest. 

Senator WYDEN. I thank you for that. 

My colleagues, still no questions? 

[No response.] 

Senator WYDEN. We don’t have anything further. Either of you, 

is there anything else the two of you would like to add? 

[No response.] 

Senator WYDEN. The committee is going to have additional questions for the record. So it’s clear to all Senators and staff, we ask 

that Members submit questions by 2:00 on Friday so it will be possible to send them to the nominees. It’s the committee’s intent to 

review your responses, and it will be our desire to vote this month. 

So, with that, the committee is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:26 p.m., the Committee adjourned.] 

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