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FULL COMMITTEE HEARING ON 

BONUS DEPRECIATION: 

WHAT IT MEANS FOR SMALL BUSINESS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

UNITED STATES 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

HEARING HELD 

JULY 14, 2010 

Small Business Committee Document Number 111-072 

Available via the GPO Website: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house 


Congress.#13
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman 

DENNIS MOORE, Kansas 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina 

KATHY DAHLKEMPER, Pennsylvania 

KURT SCHRADER, Oregon 

ANN KIRKPATRICK, Arizona 

GLENN NYE, Virginia 

MARK CRITZ, Pennsylvania 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

DAN LIPINSKI, Illinois 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

BOBBY BRIGHT, Alabama 

DEBORAH HALVORSON, Illinois 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri, Ranking Member 

ROSCOE G. BARTLETT, Maryland 

W. TODD AKIN, Missouri 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri 

AARON SCHOCK, Illinois 

GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

MICHAEL DAY, Majority Staff Director 

ADAM MINEHARDT, Deputy Staff Director 

TIM SLATTERY, Chief Counsel 

KAREN HAAS, Minority Staff Director 

(II) 

STANDING SUBCOMMITTEES 

Subcommittee on Contracting and Technology 

GLENN NYE, Virginia, Chairman 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

KURT SCHRADER, Oregon 

DEBORAH HALVORSON, Illinois 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

MARK CRITZ, Pennsylvania 

AARON SCHOCK, Illinois, Ranking 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

W. TODD AKIN, Missouri 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania 

Subcommittee on Finance and Tax 

KURT SCHRADER, Oregon, Chairman 

DENNIS MOORE, Kansas 

ANN KIRKPATRICK, Arizona 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

DEBORAH HALVORSON, Illinois 

GLENN NYE, Virginia 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida, Ranking 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

W. TODD AKIN, Missouri 

BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania, Chairman 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma, Ranking 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

(III) 

Subcommittee on Regulations and Healthcare 

KATHY DAHLKEMPER, Pennsylvania, Chairwoman 

DAN LIPINSKI, Illinois 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

BOBBY BRIGHT, Alabama 

MARK CRITZ, Pennsylvania 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia, Ranking 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

Subcommittee on Rural Development, Entrepreneurship and Trade 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina, Chairman 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

BOBBY BRIGHT, Alabama 

KATHY DAHLKEMPER, Pennsylvania 

ANN KIRKPATRICK, Arizona 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri, Ranking 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

AARON SCHOCK, Illinois 

GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania 

(IV) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Vela ́zquez, Hon. Nydia M. ....................................................................................... 1 

Graves, Hon. Sam .................................................................................................... 2 

WITNESSES 

Sandford, Mr. Jack, President, Faulconer Construction Co., Charlottesville, 

VA. On behalf of American Road and Transportation Builders Association .. 3 

Fesler, Mr. Daniel, CEO, Lampert Yards, St. Paul, MN. On behalf of National 

Lumber and Building Materials Dealers Association ....................................... 5 

Vander Molen, Mr. Dennis, President, Vermeer MidSouth, Inc., Jackson, MS. 

On behalf of Associated Equipment Distributors .............................................. 7 

Ring, Mr. Robert, President, Meyer & Depew Company, Inc., Kenilworth, 

NJ. On behalf of Air Conditioning Contractors of American ............................ 9 

Budington, Mr. Jon, Global Printing, Alexandria, VA. On behalf of Printing 

Industries of America .......................................................................................... 12 

APPENDIX 

Prepared Statements: 

Vela ́zquez, Hon. Nydia M. ....................................................................................... 26 

Graves, Hon. Sam .................................................................................................... 28 

Sandford, Mr. Jack, President, Faulconer Construction Co., Charlottesville, 

VA. On behalf of American Road and Transportation Builders Association .. 30 

Fesler, Mr. Daniel, CEO, Lampert Yards, St. Paul, MN. On behalf of National 

Lumber and Building Materials Dealers Association ....................................... 36 

Vander Molen, Mr. Dennis, President, Vermeer MidSouth, Inc., Jackson, MS. 

On behalf of Associated Equipment Distributors .............................................. 41 

Ring, Mr. Robert, President, Meyer & Depew Company, Inc., Kenilworth, 

NJ. On behalf of Air Conditioning Contractors of American ............................ 51 

Budington, Mr. Jon, Global Printing, Alexandria, VA. On behalf of Printing 

Industries of America .......................................................................................... 55 

Statements for the Record: 

Nye, Hon. Glenn ...................................................................................................... 59 

Associated Builders and Contractors, Inc. ............................................................. 60 

Association of Equipment Manufacturers .............................................................. 61 

The Associated General Contractors of America ................................................... 62 

American Truck Dealers ......................................................................................... 67 

Capitol Hill Advocates, Inc. .................................................................................... 68 

North American Equipment Dealers Association ................................................. 70 

Skyline Solar ............................................................................................................ 72 

(V) 

(1) 

FULL COMMITTEE HEARING ON 

BONUS DEPRECIATION: 

WHAT IT MEANS FOR SMALL BUSINESS 

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 1:50 a.m., in Room 

2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Nydia M. Vela ́zquez 

[Chair of the Committee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Vela ́zquez, Moore, Dahlkemper, Kirkpatrick, Graves, and Bartlett. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The Committee hearing is called to 

order. 

Today’s hearing comes at a critical time for the U.S. economy. 

June marked the sixth month in a row that private sector jobs increased. Also, GDP has risen over three straight quarters after 

shrinking for six consecutive quarters. Despite these positive signs, 

unemployment remains unacceptably high. 

Small businesses will be critical to putting Americans back to 

work. With business activity picking up, we need to continue finding ways to promote entrepreneurship and investment. Last month, 

the House passed legislation aimed at steering tax relief to small 

businesses and promoting the flow of capital to our Nation’s entrepreneurs. The Senate is expected to consider its own small business 

jobs bill shortly. 

As Congress completes a final package, there will be a lot of debate on which policies will best create jobs. One of those issues will 

be extending bonus depreciation. The Senate bill contains an extension of the 50 percent bonus depreciation tax deduction, while the 

House version does not. 

Bonus depreciation allows a business to take a 50 percent deduction for investments in new manufacturing equipment, office equipment, and other capital expenditures. This policy lapsed at the end 

of 2009. 

Today’s hearing will focus on the impact of bonus depreciation on 

small businesses. We all know that bonus depreciation can help 

boost economic activity. However, it is also important to recognize 

what it means for smaller firms. 

The witnesses appearing today are small businesses in a range 

of sectors. They will offer insight on how bonus depreciation affects 

them and their industries. 

2 

To many of the businesses here, bonus depreciation has an enormous impact. It increases cash flow and encourages investment 

while spurring expansion. Bonus depreciation also yields indirect 

economic benefits for small businesses. While small firms may not 

always purchase million-dollar machines, they see new opportunities when corporations make investments. Small businesses often 

sell, manufacture, ship or service big-ticket items that large companies purchase using bonus depreciation. 

This is the kind of economic activity we need to foster widespread job creation. As noted in the 2010 Economic Report of the 

President, a true recovery from the current recession will be driven 

by business investment. This just underscores why bonus depreciation is necessary and why it has generated $10 billion to $20 billion 

in purchases while helping sustain or create between 100,000 to 

200,000 jobs. 

Today’s hearing will give Committee members the chance to consider all of these benefits. It will provide the perspective of small 

businesses and what bonus depreciation means for their industries. 

I would like to thank today’s witnesses for taking time out of 

your busy schedules to offer your testimony at this hearing. Your 

testimony will be an invaluable part of the process as we move tax 

legislation with the ultimate goal of creating more jobs. 

I will now yield to the ranking member for his opening statement. 

[The information is included in the appendix.] 

Mr. GRAVES. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for holding this hearing on bonus depreciation. A special thanks to all of 

our witnesses for being here. I know many of you traveled a long 

way, and I appreciate you taking time away from your companies 

to be with us. 

Bonus depreciation is an important tax incentive for businesses. 

It helps owners more quickly recover the costs of qualified purchases, freeing up capital to invest in their companies. What is not 

helpful, however, is Congress’ pattern of temporarily extending or 

not extending tax provisions. This indefinite situation makes it extremely difficult for businesses, especially small businesses, to plan 

for the future. 

Making things more difficult for small businesses is the atmosphere of uncertainty caused by Washington’s antibusiness agenda. 

New taxes, mandates, and regulations and countless new laws, including the health care law, threaten to strangle our Nation’s entrepreneurs. More taxes are looming, thanks to the proposed climate change legislation and the financial regulatory reform bill, 

the potential expiration of the 2001 and 2003 tax relief packages, 

and the return of the estate tax. 

A prevailing feeling of uncertainty about what lies ahead has 

made a lot of employers hesitant about creating new jobs because 

they aren’t able to accurately predict costs and revenues. 

Washington has spent a record $3.6 trillion this year alone. Because of runaway Federal spending on the stimulus and countless 

other initiatives, the Federal deficit recently topped $1 trillion in 

the first 9 months of this fiscal year. Relying on unsustainable borrowing and spending is not going to provide small businesses with 

3 

the stability they need and may put added pressure on interest 

rates and capital supplies. 

Washington has a spending problem. It doesn’t have a revenue 

problem. We have got to curb unsustainable spending and encourage a return to fiscal sanity. At the same time, tax relief, including 

bonus depreciation, is critical. However, these days the benefit of 

a temporary tax relief is far outweighed by the coming thicket of 

additional taxes, mandates, and regulations that entrepreneurs 

face. Instead of more temporary extensions of important tax incentives, I think we should make those provisions permanent as a part 

of a responsible overall tax policy. 

Remember, we are depending on small businesses to create jobs, 

hire workers, and get our economy moving. They need policies that 

encourage expansion and job growth such as lower taxes, less government spending, and fewer unnecessary government mandates 

and regulations. 

Again, Madam Chairwoman, I appreciate you having this hearing. This is a very good hearing for businesses and I look forward 

to what our witnesses have to say. 

[The information is included in the appendix.][2 p.m.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Our first witness is Mr. Jack Sanford. 

He is the President of Faulconer Construction Company, 

headquartered in Charlottesville, Virginia. Faulconer Construction 

is a multidisciplined site and road contractor founded in 1946. Mr. 

Sanford is testifying on behalf of the American Road & Transportation Builders Association, with over 5,000 members. 

You will have 5 minutes to make your opening statement. 

STATEMENT OF JACK SANFORD, PRESIDENT, FAULCONER 

CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA; ON BEHALF OF AMERICAN ROAD & TRANSPORTATION BUILDERS 

ASSOCIATION 

Mr. SANFORD. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Madam Chairman and members of the Committee, I am Jack 

Sanford, President of Faulconer Construction Company, based in 

Charlottesville, Virginia. I am here today representing the American Road & Transportation Builders Association. I am the third 

generation in my family to own and manage Faulconer. We currently have around 260 employees, and we perform site development and heavy highway construction primarily in Virginia and 

North Carolina. 

According to the latest economic census conducted by the U.S. 

Bureau of the Census, there are just over 11,000 business establishments involved in transportation construction. Most are small 

businesses. More than 90 percent have less than 100 employees, 

and the average is less than 40. My industry is basically made up 

of small businesses. The improvements we deliver are also very important to the broad range of small businesses to move people and 

products around town and throughout the country. 

It is no secret, Madam Chairman, the construction industry has 

been extremely hard hit by the Nation’s recent economic difficulties. Even with the robust transportation and infrastructure investments provided by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, 

4 

unemployment in our sector still exceeds 20 percent, which is more 

than twice the national average. 

The Recovery Act’s transportation investments have met their intended goals of supporting employment and generating economic 

activity. One cannot, however, overlook the concurrent State budget difficulties and decline in private sector construction activities 

that have somewhat diluted the benefits of these investments. The 

Recovery Act also included a critical 1-year extension of the 50 percent depreciation bonus enacted in 2008. ARTBA member firms 

have demonstrated how this provision allowed firms to strengthen 

their operations and also to boost the overall economy. 

The General Contractors Association of New York reports one 

transportation construction company chose to purchase $10 million 

of heavy construction equipment in 2009 because of the tax benefits 

coming from bonus depreciation. Another smaller New York firm 

purchased two pieces of equipment in 2009 from their local Caterpillar dealer, and cited bonus depreciation provisions as the reason. 

The Virginia Transportation Construction Alliance, the statewide 

industry association to which my company belongs, reports a 

bridge-building contract to purchase a $1.1 million crane because 

of the combination of low interest rates and bonus depreciation 

that was in effect. A second Virginia construction firm reports it 

purchased nearly $650,000 of equipment in 2008 and 2009 because 

of the tax benefits. 

These real-world examples demonstrate the effectiveness of the 

bonus depreciation for stimulating economic activity. As such, we 

strongly support efforts to extend this depreciation benefit for 2010. 

One modest improvement that would broaden the use of the depreciation bonus is extending its application to firms leasing new 

equipment if they choose to purchase that equipment. This is allowed under the current regulations for purchase decisions made 

within 3 months. However, allowing a lessee of new equipment who 

converts to a purchase, regardless of the inception date of the lease, 

to take advantage of this provision would greatly expand the applicability and benefits of bonus depreciation. 

Madam Chairman, earlier I mentioned the array of challenges 

facing the U.S. transportation construction industry. I would be remiss in not pointing out the most meaningful action Congress could 

take for our sector and its thousands of small businesses—the enactment of a multiyear reauthorization for Federal highway and 

public transportation programs. 

I recognize the focus of today’s hearing is bonus depreciation, but 

members need to understand the interrelationship between this tax 

benefit and the lack of action on the multiyear surface transportation bill. 

As a business owner, the lack of certainty about Federal transportation programs directly influences my decisions to make capital 

purchases. This creates a situation where two factors are working 

at cross purposes. The depreciation bonus is an excellent incentive 

to purchase new equipment, but the lack of a reauthorization bill 

is an equally powerful disincentive. We ask that you urge the congressional leadership of both parties to make passing an extension 

of the depreciation bonus and a multiyear highway public transporVerDate Aug 31 2005 18:41 Sep 02, 2010 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00010 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERKS~1\HEARINGS\TRANSC~1\57284.TXT DARIEN
5 

tation bill a priority in 2010. Such actions would produce immediate and long-term economic benefits. 

Thank you for having me and for the opportunity to appear before you today. I would be happy to answer any questions from the 

Committee. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Sanford. 

[The statement of Mr. Sanford is included in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman VELQAZQUEZ. Our next witness is Mr. Daniel 

Fesler. He is the CEO of Lampert Yards in St. Paul, Minnesota. 

Lampert Yards is a Midwest regional lumber company, and Mr. 

Fesler is the fourth generation of his family to hold the president’s 

job. Mr. Fesler is testifying on behalf of the National Lumber and 

Building Material Dealers Association, which has over 6,000 members. 

Welcome. 

Mr. FESLER. Thank you. 

STATEMENT OF DANIEL FESLER, CEO, LAMPERT YARDS, ST. 

PAUL, MN; ON BEHALF OF NATIONAL LUMBER AND BUILDING MATERIALS DEALERS ASSOCIATION 

Mr. FESLER. Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, Ranking Member Graves, 

and members of the Committee, on behalf of the National Lumber 

and Building Material Dealers Association, thank you for allowing 

me the opportunity to testify today. I am grateful to be here to discuss these critical business issues. 

My name is Dan Fesler, and I am the chief executive officer of 

Lampert Yards in St. Paul, Minnesota, and am chairman of the 

National Lumber and Building Material Dealers Association. 

Lampert Yards began in 1887, and it continues to be a familyowned business with 24 operating lumber yards in five States— 

Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, South Dakota, and North Dakota. I 

am a fourth generation, and we employ right now, currently, 395 

employees. 

Founded in 1917, the NLBMDA is the voice of the lumber and 

building material industry. The Association has over 6,000 members, and it operates in all 50 States, operating single and multiple 

lumber yards, component plants, servicing homebuilders, contractors, consumers, and new construction, repair and remodeling, residential and light commercial buildings. Most of the members are 

family-owned businesses like myself, and the vast majority of them 

are second- or third-generation businesses. 

As you know, the U.S. economy and housing market is still in the 

midst of one of the greatest downturns in the history of our Nation. 

As reminded almost daily in the media, the housing crisis still 

plagues our economy. Our Nation’s lumber and building material 

dealers are on the front lines of this crisis, and many, unfortunately, have had to permanently shut their doors as a result. 

With respect to my own company, since the decline of the housing market, we have closed seven facilities. We have had to lay off 

or terminate 418 employees. We have seen numerous lumber yards, 

builders, distributors, manufacturers, go out of business. In addition, the costs of operating our business have significantly increased at significant rates due to government regulation, such as 

6 

IRS rules changes, loss of deductions, new EPA regulations, and increased OSHA oversight and regulations. 

Health-care costs continue to grow steadily, as they have for the 

last 10 years. While costs have been up sharply, sales have been 

declining over the last 4 years. We have seen our margins and profitability erode and decline. The average lumber yard lost $1.5 million in 2009. We have been forced to suspend investments in new 

or needed equipment. 

One way to help lumber and building material dealers and many 

businesses out of their current economic difficulties would be to extend the bonus depreciation for 1 year, as recommended by President Obama in his 2011 budget. While the HIRE Act, signed by 

President Obama in March, renewed the increased section 179 expensing levels for this year, the temporary 50 percent bonus depreciation lapsed at the end of 2009, and it has not been restored. 

Bonus depreciation allows businesses to recover the costs of certain capital expenditures more quickly than under ordinary tax depreciation schedules. Businesses can use bonus depreciation to immediately write off 50 percent of the cost of depreciated property. 

Bringing back bonus depreciation will encourage companies of all 

sizes to invest in newer, more efficient and more environmentally 

friendly equipment, which will help both large and small businesses alike. 

In a fragile economic recovery, extending bonus depreciation for 

capital investments will help promote continued investment. It will 

stimulate sales of business capital investments, such as machinery 

and equipment, by helping customers who have buying needs and 

suppliers who have products to sell. A bonus depreciation extension 

will help lower the cost of such purchases at a time when economic 

uncertainty and high unemployment are thwarting business capital 

investment. 

Bonus depreciation to me is somewhat of a misnomer. It sounds 

like you are getting a bonus or a greater benefit when, in actuality, 

what it does for us is it has depreciation matched to the true life 

cycle of the product. For Lampert’s, we have 235 computer terminals in our operation. We have 197 printers in use in the company 

every day. On average, that equipment lasts for 3 years, partially 

because they run 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, and also because 

we operate in a harsh environment that often causes the equipment to get dirty and dusty. 

Under the normal IRS depreciation rules, these must be written 

off over 5 years, which is much longer than their true life cycle. 

Bonus depreciation allows us to write these off over a faster period 

of time, but also in line with their true life cycle. Without bonus 

depreciation, we hold and use equipment longer, and we delay the 

cost of investment in newer and better equipment. Giving a company the ability to write these things off in a more timely manner 

would be much more beneficial. 

Taking all of this data and support into account for bonus depreciation, we certainly hope the House will seriously consider passing 

a bonus depreciation extension, which we know will help our economy to get back on track. 

The NLBMDA appreciates the opportunity to testify on this critical issue. We look forward to working with the Committee and 

7 

Congress on this and on other steps that will help us emerge from 

the current crisis. 

I will be glad to answer any questions. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Fesler is included in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. The chair recognizes the ranking member. 

Mr. GRAVES. Thanks, Madam Chair. 

Madam Chair, I am pleased to introduce Dennis Vander Molen, 

who is the president of Vermeer MidSouth, a full-service equipment 

dealer based in Jackson, Mississippi, which specializes in sales, 

leasing, training, and in the servicing of Vermeer horizontal drilling machines, rock trenchers and trench compactors. 

Mr. Vander Molen is the 2010 chairman of the Associated Equipment Distributors. Born in Iowa, Mr. Vander Molen has been with 

the Vermeer company for his entire career, working his way up 

through the company in service, engineering and sales. In 1987, he 

left Vermeer to co-found Vermeer MidSouth, which is a distributor. 

The company has grown to seven locations. It serves four States 

and employs 60 people. 

Thanks for being here, and I appreciate your coming all this way. 

STATEMENT OF DENNIS VANDER MOLEN, PRESIDENT, 

VERMEER MIDSOUTH, INC., JACKSON, MS; ON BEHALF OF 

ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT DISTRIBUTORS 

Mr. VANDER MOLEN. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Vela ́zquez 

and Ranking Member Graves. Thank you for that introduction. It 

is my pleasure to appear before you today both as a small business 

owner and in my capacity as the 2010 chairman of Associated 

Equipment Distributors. 

AED is an international trade association, representing independent, authorized construction mining, forestry and agricultural 

equipment dealers throughout the country and around the world. 

As you have heard, I am the president and general manager of 

Vermeer MidSouth, a family-owned company since 1987, and our 

company does employ a good many people throughout that fourState area of Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Tennessee. 

I appreciate the opportunity to be with you today to discuss how 

installing the depreciation bonus will help small companies like 

mine recover from the great recession. I would like to use my time 

to highlight three key areas. 

First, the construction equipment industry has been affected as 

much as any other in this economic downturn. For us this recession 

has been nothing short of a depression. A study conducted last year 

by Global Insight for AED and the Association of Equipment Manufacturers painted a grim picture. The study found that, from 2007 

to 2009, spending on construction equipment fell 50 percent; and 

that, over the last 3 years, manufacturers, distributors and maintenance providers shed 257,000 jobs, representing a stunning 37 percent of the industry workforce. 

The effects of the equipment industry downturn have been felt 

well beyond the dealer yards and manufacturing plants. Global Insight estimated that the equipment industry depression has cost an 

additional 274,000 jobs in the broader economy. In total, the downVerDate Aug 31 2005 18:41 Sep 02, 2010 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERKS~1\HEARINGS\TRANSC~1\57284.TXT DARIEN
8 

turn in the equipment industry has cost 550,000 jobs nationwide 

since 2006. 

My second point is that the depreciation bonus is a powerful and 

proven economic stimulus tool. It was first employed in 2002 when 

the Nation was in the grips of another milder economic downturn. 

A survey of National Utility Contractors Association members, conducted by AED in 2003, found that 67 percent of the contractors 

who were aware of the loss said that it prompted them and their 

companies to invest in new equipment in the prior 12 months. 

Because of the success of the depreciation bonus in the early part 

of the decade, Congress included it in the 2008 Economic Stimulus 

Act. A survey of NUCA members conducted in 2008 found that, despite the fact that the depreciation bonus had been only in effect 

for just a few months, approximately one-third of survey respondents said that they had already purchased equipment in the first 

half of 2008 to take advantage of that law. 

More recently, a survey of our own members, conducted this 

spring, found that the capital investment incentives in the ESA 

and in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act had done 

more to stimulate new equipment sales than even the ARRA’s additional infrastructure movement. 

In that same survey, equipment distributors were asked to rate 

the beneficial impact of the various policy solutions our industry is 

advocating to help the industry recover. The only priorities that 

ranked higher than reinstating the depreciation bonus were reenacting the multiyear highway and water infrastructure reauthorization bills and then passing legislation to free up credit for small 

businesses. 

While the depreciation bonus alone would be helpful, simultaneous congressional action in all of these areas would be mutually 

reinforcing. Multiyear highway and water infrastructure investment bills would address critical national needs while giving contractors a reason to start buying equipment again. The depreciation bonus would give them an additional incentive to do so, and 

the small business credit legislation would ensure that they have 

the means to make a purchase. 

My third and final point is that the benefits of the depreciation 

bonus will be felt way beyond the equipment industry. Distributors 

and contractors who buy equipment and take advantage of the depreciation bonus will get a tax cut this year, which will free up resources and allow them to take additional investments and hire 

new workers. 

Because the depreciation bonus applies only to new equipment, 

the machines contractors buy will be cleaner and more fuel-efficient 

than the ones that they owned previously. Upstream, manufacturing plants idled by the recession will again be receiving orders, 

which will put laid-off workers back to work. Large and small companies that supply equipment manufacturers will see business pick 

up as well. 

The scenario will be repeated in all sectors, which is why more 

than 80 organizations representing a broad cross-section of the 

economy are working with AED in an ad hoc coalition and are urging Congress to reinstate the depreciation bonus. 

9 

To sum it up, recent government data shows that the national 

economic situation is very volatile and underscores the importance 

of additional recovery legislation. Whatever the true state of the 

U.S. economy is, the depreciation bonus will help. If things are 

going better, the depreciation bonus will strengthen the recovery 

and help it take hold. If the economy is once again deteriorating, 

the depreciation bonus will encourage business purchasing, thereby 

stimulating economic activity and, hopefully, helping hold away another economic downturn. 

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share with you, 

and I would be glad to answer any questions. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Vander Molen. 

[The statement of Mr. Vander Molen is included in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Our next witness is Mr. Robert Ring. 

He is the president of Meyer & Depew Company, located in Kenilworth, New Jersey. Meyer & Depew serves the mid-Atlantic region, and it is one of the area’s leading residential and commercial 

HVAC contractors. Mr. Ring is testifying on behalf of Air Conditioning Contractors of America, which has over 4,000 members. 

Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF ROBERT RING, PRESIDENT, MEYER & DEPEW 

COMPANY, INC., KENILWORTH, NJ; ON BEHALF OF AIR CONDITIONING CONTRACTORS OF AMERICA 

Mr. RING. Thank you very much. 

Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, Ranking Member Graves, Dr. Bartlett, 

and Mr. Moore, thank you for allowing me this opportunity to provide testimony on behalf of the small business service contractors 

of the heating, ventilation, air conditioning, and refrigeration, or 

HVACR, industry. 

My name is Bobby Ring, and I am the president of Meyer & 

Depew Company, a 57-year-old family-owned business, located in 

central New Jersey. Meyer & Depew offers maintenance, repair 

and installation services for heating, cooling and indoor air quality 

equipment to residential and commercial clients throughout central 

and northern New Jersey. 

Like a lot of family small businesses in the HVACR industry, I 

began working there when my father hired me, back in 1981. 

Today, I am the majority owner. Incidentally, my 20-year-old son 

has recently joined our firm, and may one day become the third 

generation to own and operate our business. 

I come before you this afternoon as a proud member of the Air 

Conditioning Contractors of America, ACCA, where I serve as Secretary of the Board of Directors and as chairman of the Government Relations Committee. Every day, more than 4,000 ACCA 

member companies across the Nation help homeowners, small business owners, and property managers realize the comfort, convenience and cost benefits of energy-efficient HVACR equipment. 

Eighty-four percent of ACCA members have fewer than 50 employees, and 60 percent have fewer than 20 employees, so we truly are 

representative of small business. 

It is an honor to present testimony before you today, and I want 

to commend the Committee for its leadership and its efforts to proVerDate Aug 31 2005 18:41 Sep 02, 2010 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERKS~1\HEARINGS\TRANSC~1\57284.TXT DARIEN
10 

tect the interests of the great economic engine known as America’s 

small businesses. 

My comments today will focus on the small business investment 

incentives permitted through Internal Revenue Code section 179 

and on bonus depreciation. I can attest that these tax incentives 

not only benefit the small businesses of the HVACR industry, but 

they also have a ripple effect through the economy to all of the 

businesses that we purchase equipment and goods from. I hope 

that my testimony will influence future policy decisions that further assist our economic recovery. 

As you are well aware, small businesses of all types struggle 

with cash-flow issues, access to credit and dealing with the various 

tax and regulatory burdens from both the Federal and State as 

well as from local governments. In a very real way, expensing allowances and the ability to use bonus depreciation help a small 

business like mine by lowering tax liability, freeing up more money 

to hire new employees and encouraging the purchase of new equipment, such as trucks, computers, office machinery, and furniture. 

Knowing that I can write off half of the purchase price of a qualified vehicle or office equipment in the year I place it into service 

gives me the economic justification to invest in my company. Robust section 179 expensing allowances and bonus depreciation help 

small companies like mine to get off the sidelines and spend 

money. 

On several occasions since 2002, Congress has approved shortterm expansions of section 179 expensing and bonus depreciation 

as a way to stimulate the economy. In those years, our company 

has used these incentives to purchase new trucks for our service 

technicians and computers and equipment for our office staff. The 

stimulus bill extended the expansion of the section 179 expensing 

limits and the ability to write off half of selected investments 

through bonus depreciation in 2009. The passage of the HIRE Act 

in March of this year extended the section 179 expensing limits 

retroactively for 2010. Now Congress must take the next step and 

extend bonus depreciation, and it must do so quickly. 

Small business needs certainty in today’s uncertain times. I have 

to tell you the uncertainty of not knowing where we are going, 

what the law is going to be, what the tax regulations are going to 

be, really puts a lot of us in the position where we don’t know what 

to do, and that stifles small business and economic growth. A business owner will not spend precious financial resources in the hopes 

that the bonus depreciation will pass someday and be applied 

retroactively. 

HVACR contractors are not the only small business group calling 

for bonus depreciation. In April, ACCA was part of a coalition of 

82 small businesses that urged Congress to reinstate bonus depreciation. Delaying the reinstatement now during this fragile economic recovery sends a negative signal to small businesses, especially when surveys have shown that bonus depreciation prompts 

small businesses to take advantage of investment opportunities. 

In order to increase the economic benefits of section 179, I would 

also like to recommend that, as Congress considers an extension of 

bonus depreciation, that it also expands the qualifying property 

under section 179. Under depreciation rules, property with a recovVerDate Aug 31 2005 18:41 Sep 02, 2010 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERKS~1\HEARINGS\TRANSC~1\57284.TXT DARIEN
11 

ery schedule of more than 20 years, known as section 1250 property, does not qualify for section 179 expensing or bonus depreciation. In fact, HVACR equipment must be depreciated over 39-1/2 

years, which, according to the American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Engineers, is more than twice the expected life of properly installed and maintained HVACR systems. 

ACCA applauds Chairwoman Vela ́zquez for the introduction of 

H.R. 4841, the Small Business Tax Relief and Job Growth Act of 

2010. H.R. 4841 would remedy this problem by expanding the definition of a ′′qualified structural improvement′′ under section 179 

property made in 2010 and 2011 to include any improvement to a 

building or its structural components, including improvements to 

the roof, drainage, plumbing, electrical components, heating, ventilating, air conditioning, insulation, and fire protection, intended 

to improve or to make such a building ready for use in a trade or 

business. 

Not only would this change in the Tax Code help many small 

firms that are located in commercial properties, like professional 

townhouse suites, doctors’ offices and strip malls, to be able to afford energy-saving HVACR retrofits, but it would also allow these 

improvements to qualify for bonus depreciation. Without any incentive to replace aging HVACR equipment, small businesses will continue to maintain and repair old, inefficient furnaces, air conditioners, chillers, and boilers. 

According to the 2005 Residential Energy Consumption Survey, 

since 1990 only 30 percent of the commercial buildings have had 

their main heating equipment replaced, and only 37 percent have 

had their main cooling equipment replaced. Some may argue that 

expanding the definition of section 179 qualified property would 

cost too much in lost revenue, but those losses would be more than 

made up for in increased economic activity, lower utility costs and 

fewer greenhouse gas emissions, as well as in job creation. 

My fellow ACCA members and I are very concerned about the 

status of our Nation’s economic recovery. Economic indicators point 

in different directions over the next few months and years. America’s small business needs to see positive signs from Washington to 

allay fears that a double-dip recession may be occurring. The passage of bonus depreciation will send the right message that Congress is interested in helping promote job creation and a revitalization of the economy. 

With that, I conclude my comments, and I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you again for giving me 

this opportunity to provide this testimony. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Ring. 

[The statement of Mr. Ring is included in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Our next witness is Mr. Jon Budington. 

He is the CEO of Global Printing in Alexandria, Virginia. Global 

Printing provides printing distribution and marketing support services to organizations. Mr. Budington is here to testify on behalf of 

the Printing Industries of America. PIA is the world’s largest 

graphic arts trade association, representing an industry with approximately 1 million employees. 

12 

STATEMENT OF JON BUDINGTON, CEO, GLOBAL PRINTING, 

ALEXANDRIA, VA; ON BEHALF OF PRINTING INDUSTRIES OF 

AMERICA 

Mr. BUDINGTON. Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, Ranking Member 

Graves, members of the Committee, on behalf of Printing Industries of America, I want to thank you for allowing me to testify 

today. My name is Jon Budington, and I am president now and 

CEO of Global Printing, a manufacturing and marketing services 

firm based in Alexandria, Virginia. 

Global first opened its doors in 1978. Over the past 30 years, it 

has grown to employ over 90 employees, and it generates revenue 

annually of around $11 million. 

In talking a little bit about the printing industry at the macro 

level, printing is one of America’s oldest and largest manufacturing 

industries. At the start of 2008, the industry employed 1 million 

workers in a uniquely domestic industry. Almost all print consumed in America is produced in America, providing jobs in every 

State and district. In total, printing comprises approximately 1.2 

percent of total annual economic output in the United States. 

Unfortunately, the recent recession has shrunk print’s economic 

footprints by historic proportions. The number of U.S. printing 

plants declined 8 percent in 2008. Total shipments, not adjusted for 

price changes, in 2009 were down 15.6 percent industry-wide, and 

employment declined by 6.9 percent. 

Lower print demand relative to supply caused printing prices to 

decline by 6.5 percent in 2009. Printers’ profits have declined by 

approximately half over the past 2 years. Access to capital remains 

an issue for the printing industry with almost one in four printers 

reporting problems in obtaining credit in the first quarter of 2010. 

I can attest to that myself. I became CEO of Global Printing during the 2001 recession. In that year, Global lost 30 percent of its 

revenue, and we were bleeding cash terribly. We understood in 

order to remain viable in today’s online world, our print-focused 

business model needed to change. We invested heavily in new technology that integrated print with the Internet. This new technology 

created new jobs and allowed Global to provide cutting-edge, creative ideas to our established print clients. Those investments 

made in 2001 are what basically got us through that recession. 

In the current economic climate, many businesses have closed or 

slashed payroll. At Global, in seeing this coming, we took proactive 

measures to suspend 401(k) contributions, administer across-theboard pay cuts and initiate a hiring freeze. We avoided using our 

line of credit for fear that it may not be renewed, and opted not 

to seek any equipment financing. All of these very difficult business 

decisions allowed Global to weather the current economic storm. 

However, in order to continue to grow—and as you know, all small 

businesses must grow—investments must be made, and incentives 

for those investments are necessary. 

Bonus depreciation is a winning proposition that our Nation 

needs for economic recovery. By allowing companies like Global to 

depreciate 50 percent of capital investments in the coming tax 

year, Congress reduces the upfront costs of those investments. As 

a result, bonus depreciation leaves Global with more cash resources 

for both more investments and new jobs. 

13 

The benefits of bonus depreciation aren’t theoretical. Multiple 

studies from academic experts, private analysts, and the Treasury 

Department found that past cycles of bonus depreciation, from 

2002 to 2004, drove substantial economic growth, with up to $9 of 

GDP growth for every $1 of tax benefit. More importantly, during 

the same period, bonus depreciation helped create or save between 

100,000 and 200,000 jobs. 

At Global, our efforts to preserve capital and find new business 

has paid off. By making new investments and changing our business model yet again, Global has more than doubled its revenues 

and added 30 employees from the 2001-2008 period. This past January, I hired 15 new employees from a competing printer who decided to close its doors, and, as a result, it has expanded our ability 

in looking at new clients and new markets. 

Global is uniquely poised for significant growth in 2011, but this 

will only become a reality if the company can make significant 

equipment investments to produce this new revenue. The investment in new technology will add over $500,000 of debt to our balance sheet, and I will say that is a very conservative investment, 

because small printing companies like mine can make seven-figure 

investments on a regular basis. Accelerated depreciation is a major 

cash-flow incentive for Global to make these investments, and I 

therefore urge Congress to extend bonus depreciation, section 179 

expensing and other pro-growth incentives to help companies like 

ours weather the storm. 

Again, thank you for holding today’s hearing and for inviting me 

to testify, and I look forward to answering any questions you may 

have. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Budington. 

[The statement of Mr. Budington is included in the appendix.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Sanford, last year businesses had 

access to increased section 179 expensing and bonus depreciation. 

The Committee has heard many times how important section 179 

expensing limits are for small firms. 

Can you explain how the two provisions work together and how 

bonus depreciation provides an additional benefit for small firms? 

There might be some Members of Congress who do not see the direct benefit of bonus depreciation for small firms. Can you please 

explain that? 

Mr. SANFORD. Yes, ma’am. 

Well, as you have heard from almost every member, we are in 

a distressed market, and the bonus depreciation extension would 

enable us to invest into equipment—new, greener, cleaner, more efficient equipment. Getting that ability to have that accelerated depreciation means we will have other revenues to reinvest in the 

company in other ways, most especially in the area of jobs. If we 

can grow our business, grow our revenue, it flows to all capacities 

of the business. 

I don’t know if I answered your question. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes, you did. 

Mr. Ring, small firms benefit not only as purchasers of business 

equipment but also indirectly as manufacturers and distributors or 

as sellers of such investments. 

14 

Can you explain how small firms benefit from larger companies 

making investment that might be spurred by bonus depreciation? 

Mr. RING. Absolutely. I am very glad that you asked me that. 

Our customers, our commercial customers, have HVACR equipment on the roofs of their buildings or serving their buildings that, 

right now, is required to be depreciated over 39-1/2 years. That is 

a very old standard that may have applied to how heating systems 

were manufactured and installed many years ago when that law 

was first written. Right now, the average life expectancy of a commercial package heating and cooling unit is about 15 years. There 

is absolutely no tax incentive whatsoever for anyone to replace a 

piece of equipment that is not 39-1/2 years old. 

We have suggested—and our association has worked with Members of Congress in the past, including yourself—to help introduce 

a piece of legislation we call the Cool and Efficient Buildings Act 

that would encourage commercial property owners to replace outdated HVACR equipment with high-efficiency equipment and entitle them to an accelerated depreciation. This would have a tremendous impact on our global warming potential, our carbon footprint. 

It would meet many policy objectives of this and many other administrations of reducing our energy consumption. At the same 

time, it would stimulate the economy. We currently have a $1,500 Federal tax credit in place for our 

residential clients that is resulting in increased sales for us right 

now. Any type of incentive to our commercial clients to replace systems through an accelerated depreciation would be phenomenal to 

our business. Our residential small business is up 8 percent right 

now. Our commercial business is down 30 percent. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. And that is related to the $1,500? 

Mr. RING. Absolutely. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Mr. Budington, one issue facing small firms—and you mentioned 

it—is the lack of affordable credit. If a firm is going to spend 

$300,000, for example, on a piece of equipment, they would likely 

need to arrange for some sort of financing. So how has the lack of 

credit affected you or those in your industry from taking advantage 

of bonus depreciation? 

Mr. BUDINGTON. That is an excellent question. I am glad you 

asked. 

It is interesting because we missed out on the boat to use the 

credit previously because our business cycle—we spent a great deal 

of time, when this recession first started, aligning our business, 

making sure our costs were in line, getting everybody on board to, 

you know, like I said, take pay cuts and the 401(k) contribution 

cuts. We were not in a position to be thinking about investing in 

the company at that point. After putting all those pieces in place 

and realigning our business with what our clients needed, we suddenly found ourselves ready to grow, but then realized that some 

of the credits had expired. 

So what is interesting is, when we look at how this bill is put 

together, the time frame that we give companies the availability to 

use it might not always sync up with our time frame of how and 

when we can use it. All companies need to be, in this case, profitable right now, and we need to watch our covenants very closely, 

15 

which we have, and we are in a position where we can begin to borrow money again; but obviously, the last year and a half was a 

very difficult time for anybody in the printing industry to be going 

to the bank and financing equipment. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Budington. 

Mr. Fesler, to claim bonus depreciation, a business must have 

not only purchased equipment but must also place it in service by 

the end of the year. 

Have you seen any instances where a company has lost the tax 

benefit because of prolonged production schedules or other delays? 

Mr. FESLER. That is a good question, Madam Chairman. 

I think for us there is availability of product to purchase, so I 

don’t really see delays. But we often consciously make the decision 

not to purchase equipment if it is not affordable to us, and in a declining industry and business where profits and margins are 

shrinking, it is difficult to spend money for such things, but we do 

have to replace a certain amount of our equipment every year. 

We are going to replace 30 computers this year. A desktop com- puter is $800, but a blade server is $20,000. We will spend 

$200,000 in computer equipment. We will spend $600,000 in 

trucks, but because of the cost of these things, we will replace less 

this year than we have in the last 10 years. Bonus depreciation 

would lessen that cost over a shorter period of time and allow us 

to purchase more. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. 

I will come back for a second round of questions, and I will have 

my first question addressed to Mr. Vander Molen. 

I will recognize the ranking member. 

Mr. GRAVES. This question is for everybody. 

One of the things that we keep hearing in the Committee is employers are telling us how reluctant they are to expand their companies or to hire workers until there is some sort of certainty out 

there about what the future holds. I am specifically interested if 

you have your own company or if you want to speak on behalf of 

your association. 

Have you frozen your business decisions at this point because of 

the uncertainty? If you could, also give me one thing or two things, 

government policies, that have you more concerned about the economic recovery than anything else. 

We will start with Mr. Budington. 

Mr. BUDINGTON. I have been with the same company straight out 

of college. I started here in customer service. I was hired during 

a recession. It had some times of prosperity. I took over as CEO 

during a recession, and now I am the principal majority owner in 

a new recession. So my experience is every recession is different. 

It is very hard to put this recession into perspective, but this one 

seems very different. It seems longer. It seems to affect a broader 

group of our clients that we depend on grabbing our revenue from. 

I will say that in 2001, I was really focused on changing the business model and how we would invest to make the business model 

work to that new model. In this recession, we have a moving surface that we are standing on. 

I mean, in the economy, there is a lot of uncertainty. I mean, if 

I look at Yahoo! Finance today, there are going to be ten different 

16 

opinions on where the Dow is going to go and how the economy is 

going to improve or fall off a cliff. For a business owner, I do not 

understand what the answer is to where we are going, and with 

that level of uncertainty, it is hard for me to make decisions. Every 

piece of debt that I bring into my company, I personally guarantee 

with my home, with my children’s college funds, and with my 

401(k). 

Having a lack of certainty in the business climate is something 

that I am used to, but from the government climate, from where 

I see the government’s approach, there is a lot of pressure on taxation. There is a lot of pressure on the rules of how this would 

work. I mean my investments are under $800,000 for section 179. 

Well, what if they go over that? Depreciation gets extended, but I 

don’t have a long-term plan on how that depreciation should work 

in my business and an understanding of how some assets that we 

purchase in this new economy are going to change much faster 

than the depreciation schedules allow us to, and we seem to defer 

those decisions down the road. That uncertainty, for me, complicates the uncertainty that I am already navigating through in 

this economy. 

Mr. GRAVES. Mr. Ring. 

Mr. RING. Well, Mr. Graves, I would begin by saying I agree 100 

percent with your opening remark that we don’t have a tax problem. We do have a spending problem. 

Like all of us up here, as small businesses, I believe the best 

thing that government can do for any of us is to curb government 

spending and to allow us all to keep more of our own money to 

spend in the economy. A tax credit to me for hiring a new employee 

is not going to prompt me to hire a new employee. Increased demand for my goods and services will prompt me to hire employees. 

That is the only thing that will prompt me to hire employees. 

I have postponed the purchase of vehicles recently because of the 

downturn in the economy and the uncertainty as to how many employees I am going to have. One of the reasons, you know, I postponed that decision is I reduced the number of employees, and I 

parked vehicles that would normally have been used. 

I have a lot of uncertainty about health care. Every day, I read 

something else about another provision of the health-care law that 

seems to be an unknown to us before it is coming. 

I am worried about taxes. I am very worried about estate taxes. 

In the death of George Steinbrenner, they pointed out today that 

the family there saved $500 million because he died this year instead of next year or last year. I think that is a horrible thing for 

anyone who owns his own business to have to try and predict how 

the business will continue in the event of the majority shareholder’s death. What will have to be done? Will the business have 

to be sold in order to pay the estate taxes in 9 months or else? Perhaps that is something that Congress could look at and give us 

some flexibility in how the estate taxes are paid. I still have a hard 

time understanding how Congress believes or the government believes that death is a taxable event. 

Like Mr. Budington, I have a lack of confidence right now in 

what the government is doing to help small business and help restore confidence in what is going on. I read, increasingly, of a lot 

17 

of taxpayer/voter lack of confidence in the government’s ability to 

get us out of this. When people read that, it just reinforces the 

thought process that they shouldn’t be spending money right now 

and that maybe they should hang onto what they have got. 

I read something yesterday, excuse me, last week that said that 

our stock market performance is mirroring exactly what it did after 

the Great Depression when we double-dipped, and I actually 

thought about should I take my money out of my 401(k) and put 

it into a more secure investment than leaving it in the stock market, which is exactly what we shouldn’t be thinking or doing, but 

that is what we are hearing. 

Mr. GRAVES. Mr. Vander Molen. 

Mr. VANDER MOLEN. Yes, thank you for the question and for the 

opportunity to give you some feedback. 

I can echo what these other two guys have said, with the addition that, you know, fear is a terrible thing. You know, fear can 

strangle any kind of movement, whether it is economically or 

whether we walk out of the front door in the morning, and it is 

with uncertainty that people are not going to invest. 

That is one of the things that—I think what we can do is look 

at how do we develop a culture that says you know what, I am 

going to invest and I can expect some kind of return on that investment. The equipment is going to do a task. It is going to be productive, and there is value there. But when fear makes us do things, 

like not buy trucks or not buy equipment or not add to facilities, 

whatever that might be, or add jobs, add to people’s work at our 

places of business, then you know we can’t go forward. Small business has got a strangle on us if we operate by fear. We need some 

confidence out here that there are things that can happen for the 

greater good, and this bonus depreciation is one piece of it. 

Bonus depreciation, all in itself, will not do us any good. People 

still have to make money. Businesses have to make money so that 

they can reinvest into equipment and things like that. So that is 

why we really need that bonus depreciation along with some other 

things like—whether it be highway bills or water infrastructure, 

you know, some small business incentives that can help that. 

You know, I think, too, that bonus depreciation can help with a 

tangible product. I mean it is something that you can see. Things 

are happening.You know, you can put your fingers on it. You know, 

if we spend money on things that you can’t see, that doesn’t give 

anybody any confidence that we are going in the right direction. 

Mr. GRAVES. Mr. Fesler. 

Mr. FESLER. Thank you. That is a great question. 

For us, we are in the housing industry, and people want houses. 

People are trying to get them. People work hard to get them. The 

largest holdup to having people move forward at that today is the 

availability of credit. The government used to fund, roughly, 10 to 

15 percent of the houses that were built, through Fannie Mae, 

Freddie Mac and a few others. Today, they are 60 percent of the 

money that is available for housing. 

The financial industry has been unwilling to step back into that 

industry and to start lending heavily again. A lot of that is due to 

the uncertainty of the regulations that are going to get hammered 

on them, and they don’t want to find themselves in a bad place, 

18 

so there is a lot of holding off on the advancing of credit. That has 

more to do with the development and growth of our business than 

anything else right now. 

Until the financial institutions begin to release funding for the 

construction business again, construction is going to move very 

slowly. There is a pent-up demand for it. People want it, but they 

can’t afford it. That is going to be directly related to the job creation we have. We will grow jobs as the economy recovers and as 

people begin to move into housing. We had over 800 employees. 

Now we have less than 400. Those jobs will come back slowly over 

time. 

As far as the purchasing of equipment goes, if equipment were 

more affordable, either through tax incentives or other programs, 

we would purchase more. We need $800,000 in trucking equipment 

this year, but our banks will only support us to a level of 600. That 

means we spend more money on baling wire and duct tape, and 

that is not a very effective way to manage a business, but that is 

the environment we are in. It is ′′hang on and make things work.′′ 

Mr. GRAVES. Mr. Sanford. 

Mr. SANFORD. Thank you. 

It is unusual. I have never seen these other four gentlemen, but 

I believe we are living under the same tent. Our anxieties about 

the economy and about the market going forward and about the 

uncertainty in the marketplace is just amazing to me, especially in 

my business where we take chunks in assets in millions of dollars’ 

worth of equipment when we make purchases. 

Without the enactment of a multiyear reauthorization for the 

Federal highway transportation bill extending into the FAA programs and for transit programs, which we do work in all of those 

areas, there is just too much uncertainty, as Mr. Budington said, 

to risk the personal guarantee of your home and your family, as we 

do day-to-day, to make investments in equipment. Especially without the bonus depreciation to help in the small way that it would 

help for us, it is just making those decisions—they are almost off 

the table. 

I want to mention the access to credit. Access to credit now 

seems tougher in our industry as we go forward in trying to finance 

jobs than it has ever been. I am watching, daily, friends and colleagues in our industry go out of business, good businesses that 

have been in business for 30 and 40 years, because of just doing 

foolish things—trying to cash flow their businesses by bidding in 

increments below their costs, feeling that they are just going to be 

able to continue their business by cash flowing because they say 

they have got a contract. That is not happening. What they are 

doing is working themselves directly out of business. 

So that is why I mentioned in my remarks earlier the reauthorization and depreciation. All of these things are like one leg to the 

three-legged stool. They all have got to go in conjunction with each 

other. 

Mr. GRAVES. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I know that I need to recognize the 

gentleman, and I will. 

Would you yield for a second? 

Mr. MOORE. Sure. 

19 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Sanford, where would your industry be today if it was not for the stimulus package? 

Mr. SANFORD. Well, I regret to tell you, for the work I have in 

Virginia, we have not received any stimulus money. We have been 

fortunate that we are multidisciplined. We do airport work, and I 

do have a project down at a fairly large airport. We are working 

for some military contracts with the Navy and the Marine Corps 

in North Carolina at some military bases. So, to the respect that 

they have gotten stimulus money for that spending, it is keeping 

me going right now. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. But you call for the reauthorization of 

a multiyear in government investment— 

Mr. SANFORD. And multiyear for highway projects for the Highway Reinvestment Act. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes. So in a way, it is the recognition 

that investment is netted coming from the government in terms of 

the multiyear highway bill? 

Mr. SANFORD. Yes. Yes. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Moore. 

Mr. MOORE. Thank you. 

This is a question I want to pose to any of you who care to answer this. The theory behind bonus depreciation is to reduce business tax liabilities so that the business will have increased cash 

flow and thereby will help the business make more investments. 

In your experience, do you have an example of when your business elected to take a bonus depreciation deduction and such a deduction resulted in a specific investment being made in the business? If so, could you share that with our Committee here? Anybody. 

Mr. BUDINGTON. You know, what is interesting is our accounting 

firm would regularly come to us at the end of the year to say we 

have a credit that is expiring, and do you have the need to spend 

X number of dollars to take advantage of the depreciation. 

What is unfortunate is that making decisions on purchasing 

equipment in my industry takes a long time. I travel. We learn 

about things. We understand it. So I would have to say, no, we 

have not used it to make a decision. What is interesting is that, 

in this case that we are in now, it is time to start investing in the 

company again, and it would be nice to have the availability of this 

advanced depreciation. 

Mr. MOORE. Mr. Ring, any comments? 

Mr. RING. Yes, Mr. Moore. 

We have done that in the past with regard to the purchase of vehicles. Typically, we would like to purchase four or five vehicles at 

$100,000 to $125,000 a year. Similarly, my accountant has come to 

me and said that we have an opportunity to do this if it makes 

sense. If this is something that you might want to do in the next 

6 months, let’s do it now and take advantage of this. We have done 

that. 

On a somewhat related note in testimony of the benefit of government incentives, our company last year did in the middle of this 

recession spend $375,000 to put 240 solar panels on our roof. That 

was in large part due to the incentives that were offered by the 

20 

Federal Government and the State of New Jersey, and it made that 

a very wise business decision with a payback of less than 5 years. 

Mr. MOORE. Very good. 

Mr. RING. Yes. 

Mr. MOORE. Does anybody else have a comment? 

Mr. Vander Molen. 

Mr. VANDER MOLEN. Yes. We have used it for investment in our 

rental fleet, and that enables us to utilize those dollars somewhere 

else; but I would say, even more importantly, our customers have 

used it, and they will make purchase decisions prior to the end of 

the calendar year so that they can utilize those tax savings and 

know that those sales that happened at the end of the fiscal year, 

in December, were very welcomed in our company. 

Mr. MOORE. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Fesler and Mr. Sanford. 

Mr. FESLER. I would echo those same things. 

Typically speaking, when you have either a rebate available to 

you or a deduction available to you, your accounting staff or marketing people, whoever is available or whoever is aware of those 

events, come and they say, you know, this is a good time to do this. 

We then look at our company. What are our needs? We know we 

are going to replace so much equipment each year, but it will cause 

us to accelerate on an earlier basis the replacement of some of the 

equipment that will give us more efficient equipment and that will 

operate better and longer. There is also some environmental impact 

when you go to a more energy-efficient product. So we will consciously make that decision based on the availability of incentives. 

Mr. MOORE. Very good. 

Mr. Sanford, any comments, sir? 

Mr. SANFORD. Just one comment. 

In my remarks, I mentioned being able to reach back further 

than 3 months, which would be very important in the construction 

industry, to expand that window for a lessee to go back. Sometimes 

we will lease equipment for 6 to 9 months on a long-term purchase 

option agreement depending on the work you have got going forward and looking forward. You feel comfortable enough, and you 

have the credit availability to take that equipment and take it 

down and put a mortgage on it and purchase it. It was new equipment when you took it out. So I think expanding that window further than the 3 months would be very, very helpful in our industry. 

Mr. MOORE. Any recommendations for how long to expand? 

Mr. SANFORD. Well, I don’t know what you all would agree to, 

but 6 to 9 months would certainly help. It gets you from one year 

to the next year. 

Mr. MOORE. Thank you, sir. 

My time is just about up. I yield back, Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Bartlett. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you very much. 

I would just like to note, first of all, that I think there is a fundamental difference between Highway Trust Fund money and stimulus money. 

Highway Trust Fund money is money that was taken from the 

taxpayer through taxes on the fuel you used and put in trust for 

you to be available when you needed to build roads and bridges. 

21 

The stimulus money was either printed or it was borrowed from 

our kids. It was ultimately borrowed from our kids. If you borrowed 

it from some sheikh or Bank of Russia or China or someplace, our 

kids have to pay it back, right? So we have borrowed it from our 

kids. 

I think there is a fundamental difference between those two pots 

of money. Am I wrong? 

Mr. SANFORD. I hope I didn’t misspeak. I understand what you 

are saying. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Okay. Thank you, sir. 

You know, if you had a bonus depreciation of 1 year, that is the 

same thing as expensing it the year you bought it, isn’t it? 

Mr. SANFORD. Correct. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Okay. You know, when I sit back and look at this 

thing, I am wondering, like the old farmer said, if the juice is 

worth the squeezing. 

What we have are these very complex depreciation schedules 

which cost you a lot of money for bookkeeping. It costs the government a lot of money to make sure you have kept your books in accordance with the law, and at the end of the day, it is exactly the 

same as if you had expensing the year you bought it, is it not? You 

get it all back in terms of depreciation and salvage value, and the 

government gets that much less in taxes because you ultimately 

got it all back except they spread it out over a number of years. 

When you first start, there is a temporary benefit to the government because the government gets a bit more taxes until you depreciate the thing, but at the end of the day, if you are looking at 

it over a lifetime or over a decade, it comes out exactly the same. 

I am wondering why we do this, because I doubt that the increased cost of capital to the government, the benefit of that, comes 

anywhere close to the bookkeeping cost to the government, to say 

nothing of the bookkeeping cost that you have. 

I was in the small business world in a former life, and I know 

those stupid depreciation schedules and how difficult they are to 

maintain—different for this and different for that. Why don’t we 

just expense things the year we bought them? Because at the end 

of the day, it comes out exactly the same for both the taxpayer and 

the government. 

Why do we want to pay in ourselves for these depreciation schedules? Am I missing something? 

Mr. BUDINGTON. Amen. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Everybody is a loser here. I understand win-win. 

I do not understand lose-lose, and everybody loses here. I think the 

taxpayer loses and the government loses. The taxpayer loses in two 

ways. He loses because his government is less efficient with all of 

the bookkeeping they have to do to make sure you have followed 

these silly laws, and you have huge investments and all the bookkeeping to keep track of and the stuff in it. At the end of the day, 

it comes out exactly the same. 

Can you help me to understand why we do this? 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Will the gentleman yield? 

Mr. BARTLETT. Yes. 

22 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. So it is a great argument and quite 

convincing. Why is it that during the majority Republican-controlled Congress, you were not able to make that argument? 

Mr. BARTLETT. I did make that argument, but wisdom doesn’t always prevail. And you may have noted that I broke with the prior 

administration very early in their administration. They spent too 

much, and they had too many regulations. I broke with them very 

early. 

Well, I just want to understand why we do this, because we are 

just hurting—everybody loses when we do this. 

Yes, sir. Why do you think we do it? 

Mr. RING. Obviously, the government saw some benefit. But I 

have to say, if we knew that was up for discussion, we would have 

talked about that today. We would have probably asked for that. 

I guess the government—I would imagine the government is concerned that businesses would go out and buy stuff to avoid paying 

taxes. Imagine that. 

Mr. BARTLETT. But that is only a very temporary thing. At the 

end of the day, you expense everything. With the salvage value and 

the expensing, you get it all back, right? The government loses all 

the taxes at the end of the day because you have depreciated the 

thing, right? So it is exactly the same as if you had expensed it the 

year you bought it. So I do not understand why we are doing this 

to ourselves. 

Mr. SANFORD. Well, I think, as counsel mentioned before the 

hearing started, it has been since 1986 since the whole depreciation 

schedule en masse has even been reviewed. It gets reviewed from 

year to year in smaller segments, and I think that it needs to be 

en masse. 

Mr. BARTLETT. I don’t want to review it. I just want to do away 

with it because I think that it is a lose-lose for everybody concerned, is it not? Tell me where I am wrong. 

Mr. RING. You are not. 

Mr. BARTLETT. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. 

I yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Mr. Vander Molen, if bonus depreciation is enacted this year, we 

will need to decide whether to make it retroactive or only effective 

for the rest of 2010. Some argue against making it retroactive. 

Their argument is that it will not encourage new business activity. 

Are they opposed to reasons why purchases made in the first 

part of the year should be eligible for relief? 

Mr. VANDER MOLEN. I think, if you look at our business, when 

you look at the first 6 months of productivity, it hasn’t really been 

anything to write home about. I don’t know as far as on the revenue side of government. It is probably not going to make that 

much difference. For the contractors or the people that can take advantage of that bonus depreciation, it is still all about the cash. 

When you have tax incentives, you have a cash incentive, and 

that cash incentive enables a small business to function and to perform and sustain itself and to succeed itself; and that is what we 

pay taxes on, is income, and if you roll that thing back to January 

1, I think it is a viable option that needs to be considered. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. 

23 

Mr. Budington, bonus depreciation is designed to spur purchases 

now rather than at some point in the future. So did the expiration 

of bonus depreciation in 2009 prompt you to make purchases you 

may not have otherwise made? 

Mr. BUDINGTON. Well, going back to one of the points I brought 

up, I think that is exactly the problem. The situation that we were 

dealing with in 2009 was trying to understand what the situation 

was, what our business climate was going to become, and how severe this recession would be. 

Every time a recession starts, people talk about there is a turnaround coming next quarter, maybe next half. As you can imagine, 

nobody predicted we were going to be here in the beginning of 

2009. We spent most of 2009 getting costs aligned with the realities 

of where our business was and understanding, once again, how our 

business was going to have to adapt to this new environment that 

we were in. 

I think the problem with the way these bills are set up is that, 

if we believe that depreciation is going to spur investment in our 

businesses and if we believe that investment in our businesses is 

going to create jobs, then it should just be open to say when our 

business has come up with a model, understands where our future 

is going and is ready to make that investment, that that depreciation is available for us to take at that time. 

It is hard for us to plan all of this and get all of these stars in 

alignment in advance of what the rules are for when we can and 

when we cannot use it. When my accountant does come in to yell 

that it is time to take that depreciation, I am rarely ready, unfortunately. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. So, if Congress enacts bonus depreciation this year, with the understanding that this may be the 

last time this deduction is offered, will that create an incentive for 

you to make an additional purchase before the end of 2010? 

Mr. BUDINGTON. Well, as I brought up earlier, we are at a point 

where we are ready to make some investments. We see some opportunities to grow that we are, actually, pretty excited about. So this 

will be a big boost and a big help for us. 

What is interesting if you think about depreciation, when I buy 

a big fixed asset, it is not a linear depreciation for me. I have huge 

upfront costs. I have to build the market. I have to build the sales 

force around it. In that initial year, year and a half, I am usually 

taking a loss on what I am paying into that; whereas, later on 

down the road, I am hopefully getting a return on my investment. 

So, yes, I will use that in 2009, but at the same time, I think 

it would be unwise for businesses to be making rash decisions on 

spending and putting companies in jeopardy. Banks are very different entities to be dealing with now than they were in 2007. So, 

if I get someone who is encouraging me to take on debt that I don’t 

personally believe that our company is ready to handle—because 

that debt might require me to make decisions that have nothing to 

do with that equipment—I have to make sure that our company 

can make up those payments and cover the covenants that the 

bank requires. Again, I don’t want to be making a rash decision 

based on time frames. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. 

24 

Mr. Fesler, your industry is tied to the housing industry— 

Mr. FESLER. Correct. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. —where unemployment is, roughly, 

double the national average. 

Why is bonus depreciation so important to the housing sector, 

and do you believe that it can assist you? 

Mr. FESLER. Well, it does assist us as a lumber supplier. We 

have the need to replace a certain amount of equipment each year 

because equipment ages; it gets old; it runs out of its useful life. 

In fact, with computers, we have already made the determination 

that we are going to buy 25 of those this year, and that is what 

we need to replace to keep our entire company up and running at 

the proper stage. 

With bonus depreciation, they become more affordable. If that 

were retroactive, we could literally afford 30 instead of 25. The reality is we should be replacing 50, but because of the economic 

downturn, we are withholding spending more than what we need 

to and are trying to stay within the guidelines of our banks. But 

having more dollars available as an incentive to purchase would 

encourage us to purchase more. Purchasing equipment like that 

helps other industries. It helps us to manage better, and it should 

theoretically spur some job growth. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Okay. Thank you. 

Mr. Graves, do you have any other questions? 

Mr. Ring, I noticed that you mentioned that the tax credit of $1,500 helped your industry. 

Mr. RING. Yes, ma’am. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. That costs money. Given the constraints that we are in, the government, this is a very complex 

issue to decide whether this and that. I can see, based on the arguments that I heard, that some people believe that, yes, we should 

spend money to encourage investment and to encourage purchases 

of new equipment, but we know that that will have a direct impact 

on the deficit that we are facing. 

So, in terms of the stimulus package, Mr. Sanford, I saw, when 

you mentioned here in your testimony how the stimulus—not 

maybe for you, personally, but for some others in your industry— 

has been a lifeboat for our sector and the State Department of 

Transportation, and we would be in a much deeper hole without 

the Recovery Act’s transportation investment. 

So these are difficult choices that we are all facing, and it is 

quite a long debate that we are going to be facing and knowing 

that it is going to have an impact on the deficit, and it will have 

an impact on spurring economic activity that we need in order to 

create jobs that will get this economy growing again. 

With that, I want to thank you all. This has been quite enlightening for us, and we will be sharing some of the things and the 

arguments with the leaders that we heard here, who will be considering small business tax relief for small businesses. Thank you 

very much. 

I ask unanimous consent that members will have 5 days to submit a statement and supporting materials for the record. Without 

objection, so ordered. 

[The information is included in the appendix.] 

25 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. This meeting is now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:00 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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