## WILLIAM V. O'CONNOR, JR. (CA SBN 216650) WOConnor@mofo.com 2 JOANNA L. SIMON JoannaSimon@mofo.com 

# AUG
- 92013 EARING 

# DOCKET 3 MORRISON & 

## FOERSTER LLP 

## 12531 High BluffDrive 4 San Diego, California 92130-2040 Telephone: 858.720.5100 5 Facsimile: 858.720.5125 

## 6 7 8 9 10 Attorneys for Alaska Airlines Inc.

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

WASHINGTON, D.C. (Jl 

### 0


## 11 In the Matterof: FAA Case No. 2011NM020013 12 Alaska Airlines Inc. DECLARATION OFWILLIAMV. O'CONNORIN SUPPORT OF ALASKA AIRLINES INC.'S MOTIONTO COMPELAND UNOPPOSED MOTIONTO CONTINUE THE AUGUST 20, 2013 HEARING DATE 13 14 15 16 17 18 

# 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 

# 27 28 I, William V. O'Connor, state: 1. 

# I am Partner at Morrison & 

## FoersterLLP, counsel ofrecord for defendants Alaska Airlines, Inc. I am licensed to practice in the State ofCalifornia. I have personal knowledge of the facts set forth below. Ifcalled upon to testify, I 

## could and would testify as to the matters set forth herein.



# - 2. Attached hereto as Exhibit A is a true and correct copy ofthe portions of EIR2011NM020013, Section B, which the Governmentreleased to AlaskaAirlines in this matter. The redactions in this document were done by the Government priorto providing it to Alaska Airlines. 3. Attached hereto as Exhibit B is a true and correct copy ofComplaint in this matter, FAA Case No. 2011NM020013, filed on May 14, 2013.

Declaration ofO'ConnorISO ofMotion to Compel (No. 2011NM020013) sd-623150

## 1 

## 4. 

## Attached hereto as Exhibit C is a true and correct copy ofexcerpts from the 2 August 1, 2013 deposition ofF AA Aviation Safety Inspector Justin Meisberger. 3 5. 

## Attached hereto as Exhibit D is a true and correct copy ofthe EIR Checklist 4 produced in this matter. 

## 5 

# 6. Attached hereto as ExhibitEisatrue and correct copy oftheNotice ofProposed 6 Civil Penalty, dated December 31, 2012. 7 7. Attachedhereto as ExhibitF is a true and correct copy oftheFAA'sresponses to 8 Alaska Airlines's First Set ofDiscovery,dated July 25,2013. 

# 9 

# 8. Attachedhereto as Exhibit G is a true and correct copy ofAlaska Airlines's 10 Second Set oflnterrogatories and Requests for Productionto the FAA, dated July 18,2013. 11 

## 9. I have requested supplementation ofthe FAA's current discoveryresponses on 12 more than one occasion, includingrequesting documentsrelated to Thomas Bond, the 13**Gov~rnment's** 

## expert witness in this matter. 

# 14 10. I have met and conferredwith the Robert Spitzer, FAA Office ofRegional 15 Counsel, and he has informed methat he does not object to a continuance ofthehearing date. 

## 16 11. I declare underpenalty ofperjury underthe laws ofthe United States ofAmerica 17 that the foregoing is true and correct andthatthis declaration was executed in SanDiego, 18 Californiaon this 9111 

## day ofAugust 2013. 19 

## 20 21 22 23 24 

## 25 

# 26 27 28 Declaration ofO'Connor ISO ofMotion to Compel (No. 2011NM020013) sd-623150

# By:~~{~- William V. O'Connor

2

# - 

# - 1 

# CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE 2 The undersigned certifies under penalty ofperjury underthe laws ofthe State of 3 California Qlat on this date I caused to be served in the matter indicated a copy ofthe within and 4 foregoing document upon the following persons: 5 

# Federal Aviation Administration Attn: Hearing Docket Clerk, AGC- 430 6 

# 7 Wilbur Wright Building- Suite 2W1000

! 

# Washington, D.C. 20591 8 

# 9 

# 10 11 12 13 

# Robert Spitzer Robert.Spitzer@faa.gov FAA Office ofRegional Counsel 1601 Lind Avenue, SW Renton, W A 98057

14 Dated: August 9, 2013 15 16 17 18 19 

# 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Ci::rf.i· · ate ofService (No. 

## HINM020013) 

# ViaNationwide Legal, Inc. ·

ViaE-Mail

# • F&doral 

### A¥18hon Admoniatration 

### EIR: 2011fW020013 

## Extrapolated estimated timeline from John Elgee's written statement (January 20. 20II): 1145: weather observed from the Alaska Airlines boardroom was "CAvon (ceiling and visibility unlimited) • 1210: boarded Alaska Airlines Flight 86. 1230: Alaska Airlines Flight 86 pushed back from the gate and started engines. 1230: John Elgee noticed what appeared to be contamination on the left wing of**~laska** 

### Airlines Flight 86 

### after pushback and 

### prior to taxi. 1235: Alaska Airlines Flight 86 began to taxi after approximately five (5) minute delay. 1240: Alaska Airlines Flight 86 departed Ted Stevens International Airport, Anchorage (ANC). 

### On 

## depar111re, Mr. Elgee took aphotograph (using an Olympus Stylus 725SW) ofthe 

## left wing after theaircraft brokethrough what be estimated

## was a "thin fog layer" JIOP IOJ. 

## He took anotherphotographapproximately fu·e (5) 

## minutes laterthat showed aclean wing afterthe contaminants had disappeared IIOP IIJ. 

## Mr. Elgee contacted the FAA upon hisarrival into Seattle, where he

## was promptly met byMax Tidwell (Manager, Alaska Airlines CMO) and Michael Ownby 

## (SupervisoryPrincipal Operations Inspector, Alaska Airlines**CMO~** 

## TheFAA obtained digital copies ofthe photographs directly from 

## Mr. Elgee's camera 

## sim card. The flight crew ofAlaska Airlines Flight 86 was unaware ofthe incidentuntil they were notified by company officials afterreaching theirhotel that evening. The crew immediatelyused the Aviation SafetyAction Program (ASAP) and statementstothe company, which were forwarded to the Alaska Airlines CMO

The 

## FAAre\·iewed Alaska Airlines' Cold Weather Operations 

## IlOP 

## IJI.theirGround Deicing Procedures 

## IlOP 141 

## and 

## aBlue Ribbon weatherpacket 

## IlOP**1~1** 

## thatprovided the 

## officialreported weather conditionsatTed Stevens International Airport on January 7, 2011. TheFAA also reviewed the Alaska Airlines Deicing/Anti-icingrecord for Alaska Airlines aircraft departing Ted Stevens International

## Airporton January 7, 2011 

## JIOP H•f. 

## • Approximately one hourand 

## 25 minutespriorto Alaska Airlines Flight 86 departure from Ted Stevens International Airporton January 7, 20II: o Two Alaska Airlines aircraft (N763AS and N565AS) were deiced in accordance with company procedures that

## requireo\·ernightaircraft 

## to be pre-deiced ifenvironmental conditions are forecasted to favor ice formation 

## IlOP I.&). 

## • Approximately one hourand 20 minutes after Alaska Airlines Flight 86 departed Ted Stevens International Airport on January 7, 2011:

. o Two Alaska Airlines aircraft (N763AS and N565AS) were deiced due to observed environmental conditions. The block-outand off-deck times generatedbythe AircraftCommunications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS)datafrom Alaska Airlines Flight 86 on January 7, 2011 are included in thetimelines below. Ted Stevens International Airport (January 7. 20Ill: 1153: ATIS reported weather vas clear (CLR) with visibility 8 statute miles, a temperature/dew point of 13" F/12°F and no 

### reported visible moisture. According to company procedures, the reported weather conditions,**~oupled** 

### with the crew statements that the aircraft was clean upon the initial preflight inspection, 

### did not require the crew to initiate deicing procedures at the time of the initial walk-around. 1226: Alaska Airlines Flight 86 blocks out of gate (via ACARS) [IOP 

### 17). 1236: ATIS reported weather was clear (CLR), but with visibility deteriorating**to~** 

### statue miles and mist 

### (visible moisture)- 1246: Alaska Airlines Flight 86 departs Ted Stevens International Airport (via ACARS) [IOP 

### 17). 1251: ATIS reported weather was ceiling broken at 100ft (BKNOOl), with**visibility~** 

### statute miles and mist 

### (visible moisture). 

## On January 24, 20II,the Alaska Airlines Certificate Management Office sent acertified Letter

## ofInYestigation (LOI) to

## Jim Winkelman, Alaska Airline's Director, FlightOperations Compliance QualityManagement 

## IlOP .IMJ.

AlasbAlrllnea, Inc. SECTION 8: NARRATIVE (Page2 of6) 

### EIR: 2011NII020013 NM02JDM

# • Fed•ull AVIatiOn AOm11ua1ration 

## EIR: 2011NM020013 Jim WinkelmruL on behalfofAlaska Airlines. 

## submitted the company·sresponse to ouril1Yestigation onFebruary 18,

## 20ll(IOP 191. Excerptfrom 

## Alaska Airlines' Resoonse (February 18. 

## 2011): ••.This is consistent with the Boeing allowance [for) takeoff with small amounts of frost on the wing, which is accepted by other regulatory agencies outside the FAA, including the Canadian CAA, a group quite familiar with winter ops... •••Alaska finds it unfortunate that this amount of attention is being expended on an issue that clearly**~as** 

### no safety impact and is compliant with the intent of the regulations. Intense scrutiny on a specific issue can actually compromise safety by creating (a) dist=action to other safety issues and lead to an increased threat in the flight deck. This increased threat level is proven to cause additional errors. FAA scrutiny on**~clean** 

### wingn vs dealing with conditions that may reasonably be expected to adhere has also driven the entire industry to a tremendous amount of unnecessary de-icing and over-spraying. This in turn has a significant environmental impact and also has led to cabin fume events caused by the excessive de-icing. These cabin fume events have led to air-turn-backs and aborted takeoffs all across the industry and are a true safety threat that seems to be largely ignored.



## Alaska Airlines has cooperated and provided documents and all data regarding the flight upon request The company has also instituted an approved checklistchange (date ofrelease Feb 2011} that requires 

## crews to acknowledgetheneed 

### for n secondary icecheck priorto push back and engine

### start 

## IlOP 211. The checklistchange, 

## however, was 

## not instituted priorto Alaska AirlinesFlight 86 

## on Janli!O' 7, 

## 20II. 

## • Secondary Ice Inspection

...COMPLETEINOT

## REQUIRED On 

## March 21,2011, Walter Bala (Supervisory Aviation Safety Inspector, Alaska Airlines CMO) conducted a phone interview with Mr.

## Elgee to gather more specific information regardinghis statement. Mr. 

## Elgee stated that he did not see any ,-isible moisture in the

## tenuinal area whileat the

## gate orfrom his Yantage

## point onthe

## aircraft. He confirmedthat

## he did see contamination on the wing 

## during thetakeoff

## flOP llJ. 

## T

SECTION 8: NARRATIVE (Page 3 of6) EIR: 2011NM020013 

### NM02JDM

# EXHIBITB

### 1 

### ROBERT SPITZER 

# RECEIVED 

# MAY 

# 1;:; 2013 MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 2 

### FAA OFFICE OF REGIONALCOUNSEL 3

- 

### 1601 

### LIND AVE., 

# SW

. 4 

### RENTON, WASHINGTON 98057

5 

### TELEPHONE:(425)227-l417 6 

### FACSIMILE: (425) 227-1007 

# I CALENDARED 

### 7 

### 8 

### 9 

### 10 11 12 13 

### 14 

### 15 16 

### 17 18 

### 19 20 

### 21 22 

### 23 24 

### 25 26 

## 27 28 29 30 31 

### 32 33 

### 34 

### 35 36. 

### 37 38 

### 39 40 

### 4;1. 42 43 

## In the Matter of: AlaskaAirlines Inc. 

# UNITED STATES OFAMERICA DEPARTMENT OFTRANSPORTATION OFFICE OFHEARINGS

WASHINGTON, D.C. I MORRISON & FOERSTER 

## I DOCKET DEPT. 

## I 

# I July 30, 2013 

### 1 ForDate(s):

----- ' Brian S. Mitchell



## FAA CaseNo. 2011NM020013 JUDGENOTASSIGNED

JUDGENOTASSIGNED: COMPLAINT The FederalAviationAdministration (FAA), by counsel, hereby files its Complaint, pursuantto Rule 208 ofthe Rules**ofPractice(l~** 

## Code ofFederal Regulations (C.F.R.) 

# § 13.208), and states as follows: I. 

## ·On May 1, 2013,AlaskaAirlines Inc. (Alaska), was advised through a Final Notice of Proposed Civil Penalty thatthe FAAproposed to assess a civil penalty inthe amount of $16,000. On May 8, 2013, Alaska, through legal counsel, submitted a written request for a

44 

## hearing. 45 46 47 

### 48 49 

# 1. 50 51 52 53 

## II. Alaska is now and was at all times relevant herein the holder ofAir Carrier CertificateNo. ASAA802A.

COMPLAINT FAA v Alaska Airlines Inc. FAACaseNo: 2011NM020013 Page 2 of6 ROBERT SPITZER, 

### FAA ATTORNEY 

### TEL: (425) 227-1417; 

### FAX: (425) 227-1007

### 1 2 

### 3 4 

### 5 6 7 

### 8 9 

### 10 

### 11 12 

### 13 14 

### 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 

### "24 25 26 

## 27 28 

### 29. 30 31 32 

### 33 

# 2.
3.

4.


# 5.

6.


# 7.

8.

1. The above-described certificate was issuedpursuant to 14 C.P.R. Part 1l9, and permitsAlaskato operate aircraftpursuant to 14 C.F.R. Part 121. · Atall times relevantherein Paragraph D085 ofAlaska's Operations Specifications (OpSpecs) authorizedAlaskato useN323AS,.a Boeing 737-990 CivilAircraft (aircraft), in the.conduct ofAlaska's Part 121 operations. · At all times relevant herein, ParagraphA023 ofAlaska's OpSpecs authorized the use ofAlaska's·Flight OperationsManual Section 6.100 Bulletin 10-25. · At all times relevantherein, the above described Flight Operations Manual, Section 6.100 Bulletin 10-25, prohibitedAlaska aircraft from taking offwhen frost was presentonan aircraft's upperwing surface. ·On or about January 7, 2011,Alaska operatedthe aircraft as Flight 86 (a**~art** 

## 121 flight) betweenAnchorage,Alaska and Seattle, Washington. The above described flight departedAnchorage,Alaskadespite the fact that frost was adhering to the aircraft's upperwing surfaces. By reason ofthe above,Alaskatook offwith an aircraft when frost was adhering to thewings ofthe iircraft.

e

# III. By reason Ofthe.foregoing facts and circumstances,Alaskaviolated the following

34 

## sections ofthe FederalAviation Regulations (14 C.P.R.): '35 

### 36 

### 37 38 39 40 41

. 

### 42

. 43



### 44 

# 2. 45 

### 46

. 47



### 48 49

. 50



### 51 52 53 

# a.

b. Section 119.5(1), when it operated the aircraft under Part 121 when itfailed to comply with its Operations·Specifications by taking off, the aircraft with frost on the upperwing surface; Section 121.629(b ), when ittook offwith an aircraft with frost onthe upper wing surface. In accordancewith Sections 46301(a) and (d) ofTitle49 ofthe United States Code (U.S.C.) (Transportation) [49 U.S.C. 

# §§ 4630l(a) and (d)], Alaska is liable for a civil

. 

# . penalty riot to exceed $27,500 for each ofthe violations noted.

COMPLAINT FAA v Alaska Airlines Inc. FAA CaseNo: 2011NM020013 

### Page 3 of6 ROBERT SPITZER, FAA ATTORNEY 

### TEL: (425) 227-1417; FAX: 

### (425)227-1007

### 1 

# 3. 2 3 4 

### 5 

### 6 7 

## Underthe facts and circumstances·ofthis case, a civil penalty of$16,000 is appropriate. WHEREFORE, theAgency, by counsel, respectfully requests thattheAdministrative
8 9 

## LawJudge enter an orderthatAlaska be assessed a civil penalty inthe amount of$16,000. 10 

### 11 12 

### 13

. 

## Respectfully submitted this day of14th ofMay, 

# 2013. 14 

### 15 16 17 

### 18 19 

### 20 21 

### 22 23 24 

### 25 

### 26 27 

### 28 2.9 

### 30 

### 31 32 

### 33 34 

### 35 

### 36 

### 37 38 39 

### 40 41 42 43 

### 44 45 46 47 

### 48 49 

## so 51 52 53 

## Robert Spitzer 

# FAAAttorney

COMPLAINT FAA 

## vAlaska Airlines Inc. 

### FAA CaseNo: 2011NM020013 Page 4 of6 ROBERT SPITZER, FAAATTORNEY 

### TEL: (425)227-1417; FAX: (425)227-1007

### 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 

### 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
I 

### 34 

# !· 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 

## ANSWER In accordance with Section 13.209 ofthe FederalAviation Regulations,Alaska, must answer this Complaint not later than thirty (30) days from the time it is served on it. Failure to file an Answer within thirty (30) days without good cause shall be deemed an admission ofthe truth ofeach allegation contained in the Complaint (14.C.F.R. § 13.209(f)].

COMPLAINT 

### FAA vAlaska Airlines Inc. FAACaseNo: 2011NM020013 

### Page 5 of6 ROBERT SPITZER, FAA ATTORNEY TEL: (425) 227-1417; FAX: (425) 227-1007

### 1 

### 2 

### 3 4 

### 5 6 .7



### 8 9 

### 10 11 

### 12 

### 13 

### 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 

## 27 28 

### 29 30 

### 31 32 33 

### 34 35 

### 36 37 38 39 

### 40 

### 41 42 43 

### 4zl 

### 45 46 

### 47 48 49 

### 50 51 52 53 

# CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I hereby certify thatthe foregoingComplainthas been servedviafacsimile and Certified Mail

- Return Receipt Requestedthis date, to the following: FederalAviationAdministration (Original and one copy) Attn: Hearing Docket Clerk,AGC-430 Wilbur Wright Building- Suite 2Wl000 800 IndependenceAvenue SW Washington, D.C. 20591 Fax: (202) 493-5142 I also certify that the foregoing Complainthas been served via First-Class and Certified Mail

. -ReturnReceiptRequested this date, to the following: Geoffrey M. Grindeland Mills, Meyers, Swartling 1000 SecondAvenue, 30th Floor Seattle, WA 98104-1064 Datedthis 14th day ofMay, 2013.

COMPLAINT FAA 

### vAlaska Airlines Inc. FAA CaseNo: 2011NM020013 Page6of6 ROBERT SPITZER, 

### FAA ATTORNEY 

### TEL: (425) 227-1417; FAX: (425) 227-1007

# EXHIBITC

### JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01,2013



## 1 

# UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 

# DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 3 

# OFFICE OF HEARINGS WASHINGTON, D.C.
4 

# In the Matter of: 5 

# 6 Alaska Airlines FAA Case Number 7 2011NM020013 8 9 

# 10 DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF 11 JUSTIN MEISBERGER 12 13 9:56A.M. 14 AUGUST 1, 2013 15 4800 SOUTH 188TH STREET, SUITE 240 16 SEATAC, WASHINGTON 17 

# 18 19 20 21 22 

# 23 24 REPORTED BY: SALLY J. HANDS, 

# CCR 2191 25

# • YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO**~ourt** reporting, video and videoconfereneln.g 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 praductlon@yomreparting.com www.yomreportlng.com 

### Page I

### JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01,2013

10 11
12 APPEARANCES
FOR ALASKA AIRLINES' WILLIAM V. 0' CONNOR Morrison & Foerster 12531 High Bluff Drive, Suite 100 San Diego, California 92130 858.720.7932 woconnor@mofo com
JEREMY ROSS Alaska Airlines 19300 International Blvd. Seatac, Washington 98188 206.392.5040

FOR THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION:

ROBERT D. SPITZER 13 Federal Aviation Administration 1601 Lind Avenue, ANM-7 14 Renton, Washington 98057 425.227.1417 15 16 robert. spitzer®faa.gov
17 18 19 20 ALSO PRESENT: None 21 22 23 24 25

1 2 I N DE X
3 EXAMINATIONS BY' 4 MR. O'CONNOR 5 6 7 EXHIBITS FOR IDENTIFICATION 8 9 Exhibit B 10 Exhibit C-1 11 Exhibit C-4 12 Exhibit C-17 13 Exhibit C-22

14 Exhibit C-15 15 Exhibit C-2 16 Exhibit c-s 17 Statement of Case Initial Notification AS Briefing Packet ACARS Messages Record of Telephone Conversation
Blue Ribbon Weather Report FAR(s) Violated document Flight Information
Exhibit C-6 Witness Statement and Letter 18 from Mr. Ownby to Mr. Elgee dated January 20, 2011 19 Exhibit C-16 Alaska Airlines, CWP-04, 20 Deicing/Anti-Icing Record 21 Exhibit C-14 Ground Deicing/Anti-icing

22
23 24 25 Program Overview
Exhibit A EIR Review Checklist Page 2

Page 3

PAGE (S) 4

13 32 46 48 54

58
68
71
81

97
104

109 

# • YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO court reporting, video and videoconferenclng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 production@yomreporting.com www.yomreportlng.com SEATAC, WASHINGI'ON; AOOUST 1, 2013 9:56A.M. --dJo-- JUSTIN MEISBERGER, 

### 2

..5
Page 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 sworn as a witness by the Certified Court Reporter, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. O'CONNOR: 10 Q. Good morning, Mr. Meisberger. Did I

-- 11 A. You did. Q.

-- pronounce that correctly? A. You did. Q. Are you ready to proceed? A. I 

### am, yes. 12 13 14 15 16 Q. Can you state your full name for the record. 17 A. Justin Douglas Meisberger. 18 Q. And what is your current occupation or 19 employment? 20 A. I'm an aviation safety inspector with the 21 Federal Aviation Administration attached to the Alaska 22 Airlines 00. 23 Q. And QoiO stands for what? 24 25

1 2 3 4 A. Certificate Management Office. Q. Did you have the same title

--
A. I did. Q.

-- in January 2011? A. I did. Page 5

Q. One of the things we'll have to keep in mind 5 throughout the morning is that we try to talk one at a 6 time. I know it is notmal in regular conversation to 7 anticipate questions, but for the benefit of Sally, 8 we•11 have to just do question and answer. 9 What are your current duties and 10 responsibilities as an aviation safety inspector for 11 the Alaska Certificate ManagE!IOOilt Office? 12 A. I provide oversight strictly for the airline. 13 This whole office is dedicated just to Alaska Airlines, 14 illllike other FAA offices. And the duties and 15 responsibilities fall within my scope, everything from 16 manual revisions, enforcem:nts, to working on special 17 projects for the airline themselves. I focus rrore on 18 technology. So for instrument procedure developrrent 19 they do specifically in the state of Alaska, I work 20 very closely with them. 21 So this office is all Alaska Airlines; but we 22 each have our own kind of little specialty that we fall 23 into, and mine is rrore the technology focused as of 24 late. 25 Q. Okay. For purposes of today, we'll probably

## JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01, 2013 14

.. 17
Page 14 Page 16 1 deposition today

-- and it also helped refresh your 1 A. Yes. 2 recollection as to the investigation into Flight 86

-- 3 was not redacted; is that correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. And do 

### you see, on the bottom of Section B, it 6 says, Section B: Narrative, Page 1 of 6? 7 A. Yes, I see it. 8 Q. Do you have that? 9 A. (Nodding.) 10 Q. But the pages that 

### are included within 11 Exhibit B only go up to page 3; correct? A. That is correct. 12 13 Q. And what I want to know, is there 

### any factual 14 matters

-- strike that. 15 Is it correct that there are an additional 16 three pages of this Section B narrative? 17 18 A. That is correct. Q. And you**revi~** the additional pages, 19 pages 4, 5, and 6? 20 21 22 A. I did. Q. And did that include a narrative? A. No
-- a narrative, no, of the facts. If that 23 is

-- if I can -- 24 MR. SPITZER: Well, I'm going to object Q.

-- Section C; right? A. Yes. 4 Q. One at a time. 5 There are items of proof in Section C that I 6 cannot find any reference to in Section B, which leads 7 me to believe that there are factual matters referred 8 to in pages 4, 5, and 6. Do you agree with that? 9 A. I agree with ycur asSUI1ption, yes. 10 Q. Okay. So I'm con;:ect that there are factual 11 matters described in pages 4, 5, and 6 of the Section B 12 narrative? 13 14 15 MR. SPITZER: I 

### 'm going

-- A. I would not disagree with that. MR. SPITZER: I'm going to object to 16 this continuing line of questioning. This is 17 privileged information. What's in the Section B that's 18 been provided to you -- or rather what hasn't been 19 provided to you is privileged information. Continuing 20 to ask this witness about that information is just 21 getting into privilege. So let's move the line of 22 questioning along to something else that's relevant to 23 what we're here for today. 24 MR. O'CONNOR: I think as far as -- it 25 to this continued line of questioning. This deals with 25 is literally impossible to test the privilege, because Page 15 1 things that have been redacted for the purpose of 2 privilege, so it is not really a subject for this 3 investigation. 4 What he looked at or didn't look at, the place 5 to bring that up is a motion in limine; it's not in 6 this. So this

-- let's move on from this line of 7 questioning. 8 MR. O'CONNOR: Well, let's establish the 9 privilege. 10 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Sections 4, 5, and 6, did 11 that have any reference to any factual matters 12 involving Flight 86? 13 MR. SPITZER: Again, this isn't the 14 witness to go through that with. Page 17 1 we don't even know the basis for it. I think

-- you've 2 said it's privileged. I don't know what privilege ycu 3 are referring to. So for the record, let's just have 4 the basis for the privilege for pages 4, 5, and 6. 5 MR. SPITZER: The basis for the 6 privilege on pages 4, 5, and 6

-- this isn't the place 7 for ·us to do this. But in the interest of cooperation 8 on the part of the FAA is it's deliberative process, 9 which is protected; attorney work-product, which is 10 protected; and also opinion, which is protected

-- or 11 rather it is just attorney wcrk-product. 12 So if you want to go into this, we can go into 13 this with motions in front of the judge. But using 14 this witness for that, is not the appropriate time or 15 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Do you have the question in 15 place for that. 16 mind? 16 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Did you -- did you 17 A. I think what you are asking is, is did the 17 prepare -- well, let's back up. 18 narrative stop. 18 Did you prepare Section B of the EIR? 19 Q. No. What I'm asking specifically is whether



### --**or§?~·** A. I did. 20 there was 

### any factual matters regarding Flight 86 21 contained on pages 4, 5, and 6. 22 A. I don't believe so. 23 Q. Here's why I ask, because in this

-- and we'll 24 get to this in a bit. But the items of proof, I think 25 that's also called

-- 

# • YAM,AGUCHI 

## OBIEN MANGIO court reporting, video and videoconferenclng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 productio!'l@yomreporting.com www.yomreporting.com 20 Q. Did you have 

### any assistance in preparing 21 Section B of the EIR? 22 MR. SPITZER: I 'm going to object to 23 that. That's privileged: deliberative process. Let's 24 move on from this line of questioning. 25 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Did you prepare pages 4, 5,

### JUSTIN METSBERGER; August 01,2013 18

..21
Page 18 Page 20 1 and 6 of the Section B of the EIR? A. I did. 3 Q. Did you prepare pages 4, 5, and 6 of the EIR 4 report at the direction of any attorney? 5

_ MR. SPITZER: I'm going to object to 6 this continuing line of questioning. This is not to

-- 7 this is privileged infomation. What went into the 8 preparation is part of the deliberative process of the 9 FAA. This is protected. So let's move the line of 10 questioning to what the investigation entails, not the 11 writing of infomation that is privileged. 12 MR. O'CDNNOR: I'm just trying to get 13 this to make sure we have a record. I just want to be 14 sure that he wasn't preparing pages 4, 5, and 6 at the 15 direction of a lawyer, and that's all. 16 MR. SPITZER: If you want to challenge 17 various privileges that we're claiming in this case, 18 the place to challenge that is in the discovery 19 process, not through this deposition. So let's move 20 on. 21 MR. O'CDNNOR: Again, I'm just trying to 22 narrow the basis for the privilege. If he tells me 23 that a lawyer didn't

-- 24 MR. SPITZER: And

-- 25 MR. O'CDNNOR:

-- ask him-- we've got Page 19 1 to talk one at a time. 2 3 MR. SPITZER: Go ahead. MR. O'CDNNOR: If he tells me that a 4 lawyer didn't ask him to prepare Sections 4, 5, and 6 5 that's relevant to work product; that's all. 6 MR. SPITZER: Well, this isn't the 7 place

-- the idea of this deposition isn't to go into 8 what we're claiming is privileged. And it is 9 deliberative process. We've already gone over that. 10 MR. O'CDNNOR: Okay. So he's not going 11 to tell me -- he can't tell me whether or not a lawyer 12 asked him to prepare pages 4, 5, and 6? That's an 13 instruction not to answer? 14 MR. SPITZER: Go ahead and answer that. 15 A. No, a lawyer did not tell me to prepare pages 16 4, 5, and 6. 17 18 Q. (BY MR. O'C'OIIOOR) Thank you. Mr. Meisberger, did you keep a file on your 19 investigation on the Flight 86 incident? 20 A. Yes, I did. 21 Q. And what's contained within your file? 22 A. What's contained within the file are the work 23 products that were used to build the enforcement jacket 24 that was sent. 25 Q. Okay. Is there another tennino1ogy we could 

# • YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO court rnportlng, video and videoconrerenclng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 production@yomreporting.com 

### www.yomreporting.com 1 use besides the work product? Your working papers, is 2 that

... 3 A. Working papers is fine. 4 Q. Work product means samething legally. 5 the JM.terials that you -- 6 A. There you go. Q.

-- you used to build the file. A. Yes. So just

7 8 9 Q. And what types of documents would be included 10 within your file? 11 A. Documents included in the file were Word 12 documents, drafts, the actual

-- we call them IOPs, but 13 the evidence that are referred to here is IOP 1, 2, 3 14 and on, those individual pieces. So when it**~Jas** put 15 together, they were all printed out and put in nicely: 16 any e-mails that may have been corresponding with the 17 company, with my bosses, those types of materials. 18 Q. Okay. And can you describe for me the process 19 of how the EIR report gets prepared. Fran looking at 20 it, it appears to 

### me, but I could be wrong, that it is 21 done through a COilpllter system; right? 22 A. It is not

-- are you asking if it is like a 23 Web-based conputer system? 24 Q. Sure. 25

1 A. No, it is not. Page 21 Q. How do you go about preparing the EIR report? 2 A. We have an office manual procedure that walks 3 you through

-- and this is relevant to every FAA 4 office

-- on how you do it. You follow guidance in 5 8900, which is our agency-wide manual on how to do our 6 jobs. And in there, it spells out the process, A to Z, 7 about how you go about putting together an enforcement 8 to be sent up to legal if it goes that route. 9 Q. And how is it determined whether it is going 10 to go to legal? 11 A. There is another docurrent; it is called a 12 2150. And that specifically deals with the enforcement 13 process. There is a checklist, for lack of a better 14 term, that you actually

-- when you have an issue or an 15 incident or event that may go to an EIR, you actually 16 will 

### run this checklist, and it will tell you whether 17 or not it is something that would go to an 18 administrative action. Or based on the circumstances 19 known at the time, if it needs to go to legal counsel 20 and then they need to work with it. 21 Q. Okay. So I just want to

-- and without 22 reference to this particular investigation, I just want 23 to understand tenninology here. You mentioned 24 administrative action. 25 A. Uh-huh.

## JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01,2013 Page 46 1 fran Alaska? A. I received

-- I believe I received the weather 3 infomation that was given on the dispatch. But the 4 actual whether that I used was a Blue Ribbon weather 5 package that was included that came from

-- I'm not 6 sure if it was a NOAA or FAA specific way, but it was 7 an unbiased weather shot. 8 Q. Just so we can get oriented, then, let's pull 9 these items ·out of the items of proof so that we lmow 10 who's on first. 11 First, the dispatch and release, I think, is 12 cited in the Section B report as IOP 4. May not refer 13 to it exactly, but I think that's what you're

-- 14 A. I believe so. 15 Q. So if you could pull out IOP 4 for me. I 16 apologize, but it is not indicated on the package, so I 17 have to figure it out this way. 18 Could you get me that entire package, and then 19 we're just going to mark it as Exhibit C-4. 20 (Deposition Exhibit C-4 was marked 21 for identification.) 22 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) So I've handed you what 23 I've marked as Exhibit C-4. And the 4, just for the 24 record, refers to the item of proof number that you've 25 assigned in the Section B narrative. Page 47 1 Is that the dispatch package that you 2 requested from Alaska? 3 A. It is. 4 Q. Okay. And the reason why this 

### was included 5 within the investigation materials is just to establish 6 that there was the flight? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. Anything else that's significant in 9 that package? 10 A. I do not recall that there was another reason ll that I 

### was including the dispatch release. 12 Q. Okay. Now, the other item you mentioned was 13 the ACARS messages. If you could flip through the 14 jacket there and find those there for me. 15 Did you find the ACARS message? 16 A. I did. 

### 46

..49

1 2 3 Page 48 (Deposition Exhibit C-17 

### was marked for identification.) Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Let's talk about those 4 ACARS messages for a minute, because I think in your 5 narrative

-- well, you used the ACARS messages for what 6 puzpose? 7 A. The ACARS messages are message traffic, kind 8 of like text messages, that are done from dispatch or 9 could also be maintenance. They are sending data 10 messages to and from the jet itself. This can be used 11 to pass, like I said, text messages to the crew. It 12 can also be used for the crew to pass messages either 13 on to dispatch or maintenance or, I believe, someone 14 else of their choosing, depending how their system is 15 set up. 16 Q. Okay. And you used these messages to 17 establish the timeline that's on page 2 of the 18 narrative; correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. Before 

### we get into the details of these 21 messages, if you could, just walk me through it. This 22 

### was a flight that was scheduled to depart about midday? 23 A. 12:30, I believe. 24 Q. 

## -no you lmow what time it actually..•? 25 A. I 'd have to look at the notes
. Page 49 1 Q. Okay. Why don't you take a look. 2 A. (Witness reviewing document.) 3 From the notes that I have on page 2, the 4 aircraft blocked out, which means they pushed back from 5 the gate, at 12:26. And then the aircraft actually 6 departed the airport at 12:46. 7 Q. So from the time it is pushed back from the 8 gate until wheels up is about 20 minutes? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And then you also

-- going back to page 2 of 11 Section B, you have your narrative here where you have 12 an automated teilllinal information weather report at 13 11:53. Do you see that? 14 A. Yes; the first line. 15 Q. Okay. And at least that weather report at 16 11:53 on January 7th, there was no reported visible 17 Q. And can you tell me which item of proof number 17 ooisture in the area of the teilllinal, which is 18 that is referred to in your Section B narrative. 19 A. I believe it is !OP 17, if you look down at 20 the block in the bottom. 18 essentially the airport; right? 19 20 A. That' s correct
. Q. You also have a statement following the 21 Q. Okay. And the block that you are referring to 21 teilllinal information at 11:53 that says, According to 22 is on page 2 of Exhibit B; correct? 22 coq>any procedures, the reported weather conditions, 23 A. Yes. 23 coupled with the crew statements that the aircraft was 24 MR. O'CONNOR: Okay. Let's go ahead and 24 clean upon initial preflight inspection, that this did 25 oork that as C-17. 

# • YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO court reporting. video ·and vfdeoconferenclng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 productlon@yomreporting.com 

### www.yomreportlng.com 25 not require the crew to initiate deicing procedures at

## JUSTIN MEfSBERGER; August 01,2013 Page 50 1 the time of the initial walk-around. 2 A. That is correct. Q. Okay. And do you know approximately what time 4 the initial walk-around took place? 5 A. I do not recall if it was even mentioned in 6 the report
. 7 Q. Okay. But in any event, based on the weather 8 infomation at 11:53 a.m. on January 7th, there was 9 nothing that would require the crew to initiate deicing 10 procedures; is that right? 11 MR. SPITZER: I 'm going to object

. That 12 calls for expert testimony. He's already testified 13 he's not 

### an expert on the issues of what their op specs 14 called for at the time of the violation. So .•• 15 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Mr. Meisberger, who wrote 16 that statement? 17 A. I did. 18 Q. And do you consider yourself familiar enough 19 with the Alaska Airlines operation specifications and 20 the flight operations manual to make the determination 21 whether or not deicing procedures were required based 22 on the weather infomation? 23 A. That is correct: I do. 24 Q. You consider

-- you have the ability to make 25 those determinations, don•t you? Page 51 

## 50

..53

1 2 Page 52 MR. O'OJNNOR: It wasn't compound. Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Fran the time of the 3 walk-around to takeoff, do we have any infomation to 4 tell 

### us whether or not there 

### was any visible 100isture 5 in the area? 6 A. There is the initial e-mail from John Elgee 7 that said the flight deck then advised we were waiting 8 for taxi clearance because of low visibility, in 9 parentheses, fog, which would be considered visible · 10 moisture. That 

### was off of the witness's statement. 11 However, I believe, in a later official 12 statement that he gave, he said

-- he actually stated 13 there was no visible moisture. I believe he said that 14 verbatim. I can double-check when we get into that. 15 But I believe that statement was in there. 16 Q. Okay. Let's pull that out. It is in 17 the jacket of materials

-- well, let's

-- I've seen a 18 document

-- before we go there

-- 19 A. Okay. 20 Q.

-- Mr. Bala decides to call Mr. Elgee late 21 March 2011; right? 22 A. (Nodding. ) 23 Q. Why didn't you call him? 24 MR. SPITZER: Objection. It is 25 deliberative process.
A. Given the information that I had, I believe 1 Page 53 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) In any event, Mr. Bala 2 that is a correct statement. 3 Q. And that was a conclusion that you reached; 4 correct? 5 A. It**~m.s.** 6 Q. And based on your experience as a pilot, what 7 is the significance of visible 100isture? 8 MR. SPITZER: I'm going to object again. 9 That calls for 

### an expert conclusion. 10 MR. O'OJNNOR: Are you instructing him 11 not to answer? 12 13 MR. SPITZER: Yes. MR. O'OJNNOR: Okay. 14 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) In any event, you 15 considered it important enough to include a statement 16 that there was no reported visible 100isture based on 17 the weather infomation reported at 11:53; right? 18 19 A. That is correct. Q. Okay. And do you know whether or not there 2 calls Mr. Elgee, and he has three questions for him, 3 doesn't he? 4 A. I believe it**~m.s** three questions. 5 Q. Okay. Do you recall what those three 6 questions were? 7 8 9 10 A. Not without referring to the packet. Q. Okay. Let's find it. MR. ROSS: Second page fran the end. Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) It is a document entitled 11 Record of Conversation. Do you have that in front of 12 you? 13 A. I do. 14 Q. Okay. And that record of conversation is 15 included within the items of proof, Section C, of the 16 EIR report, is it not? 17 18 A. It is. Q. Okay. I couldn•t find any reference to this 19 record of conversation in the unredacted portions of 20 was any visible IOOisture in the area from the time from 20 Section B. Can you help me find it? 21 the initial walk-around to takeoff? Do we have any 22 infomation on that? 23 A. If you give me a moment

-- 24 MR. SPITZER: It is a compound question. 25 Which one do you want him to answer? 

## YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO court reporting, video and videoconferenelng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 productlon@yomreporting.com www.yomreporting.com 21 A. (Witness reviewing document.) 22 I believe it

-- it was on page 3, and it is 23 after IOP 22. Unless it actually is IOP 22. 24 Q. No, I think you found it for 

### us. 25 MR. 0'OJNNOR: Let's do this: Let's

## JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01,2013 

## 62

..65
Page 62 1 Q. (BY MR. O'CONOOR) And as far as your 1 Page 64 MR. SPITZER: Same objection. It is 2 investigation was concerned, were you focused in any 3 way on the possible contamination on the right wing? 4 5 A. No. Q. Why? 6 A. Because we only had evidence for the left, 7 supposedly. 8 Q. What do you mean by supposedly? 2 deliberative process. 3 MR. O'CONNOR: Okay. Rob, we're 4 entitled to know the expert's opinions and conclusions. 5 MR. SPITZER: You are welcome to depose 6 our expert. We've identified the expert. We've give!l 7 you his name; we've given you his address, his 8 telephone number. I mean at some point, we'll send you 9 A. I had two pictures of the left wing. I didn't · 9 a resurre as soon as he sends it to us. You are 10 have anything from the right side of the aircraft. 11 Q. Okay. Now, I don't need to know what was 12 discussed or what went into any deliberative process 13 related to an expert looking at these photos, but did 14 an expert, in fact, look at these photographs to 15 determine whether there was contamination on the wing? 16 MR. SPITZER: I'm going to object to 17 that again. It is deliberative process. 18 MR. 0'CONNOR: Well, Rob, I mean you are 19 going to have an expert testify at the hearing

-- 20 MR. SPITZER: Whether he was involved 21 with the witness that's here is deliberative process. 22 We are going to have an expert testify; I'll 23 admit to that. But it is what went on with the 24 conversation putting together the EIR. That's all 25 deliberative. So it is privileged. Page 63 10 entitled to depose him. But asking our witness here, 11 who is a fact witness and who assembled the EIR, is 12 completely different things. 13 MR. O'CONNOR: Okay. 14 MR. SPITZER: You are welcome

-- we're 15 an open book. You are welcome to talk to him. You are 16 welcome to depose him. We'll set it up gladly. But in 17 this context, it is not appropriate for what goes on 18 back and forth between the offices. 19 MR. O'CONNOR: Here's the deal. We 20 asked for the identification of the expert and his 21 opinions in our discovery. We were referred to the EIR 22 report as containing that information in lieu of 23 responding to an interrogatory specifically on that 24 issue. 25 MR. SPITZER: Well, the response --
MR. O'CDNNOR: I think it goes to the 1 Page 65 MR. O'CDNNOR: Let me finish. Let me 2 credibility of this whole process as to whether or not 3 an expert was consulted before the investigation was 4 completed or afterwards. 5 MR. SPITZER: Okay. And I'm instructing 6 the witness not to answer that. 7 8 MR. O'CONNOR: On what basis? MR. SPITZER: It is deliberative 9 process. What goes into putting together the EIR is 10 what you have here. And I don't think we need to have 11 a conversation of what went on between the various FAA 12 offices concerning our expert who was consulted, who 13 wasn' t . That' s all internal. 2 finish. 3 That information is not contained in this 4 report. So what I'm trying to establish is that we 5 don't have that discovery that we asked for. 6 MR. SPITZER: I'm not going to

-- that 7 information is forthcoming. We will provide that 8 information. We will stipulate that the EIR that 9 you've been supplied doesn't have that report in it. 10 But let's move on from that. Any conversations 11 internally what's going on, it is not appropriate for 12 this deposition. And we can have that conversation in 13 a different forum, but this isn't the place for it. 14 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) There• s no reference in the 14 MR. O'CDNNOR: Just for the record, you 15 EIR to any analysis or opinion by an expert in aircraft 16 icing issues; correct? 17 A. Correct

. 18 Q. You are not an expert in aircraft icing 19 issues? 20 21 A. That is correct
. Q. So again, the question is, was an expert 22 consulted regarding contamination of the wings on 23 Flight 86 after the EIR report 

### was canpleted? 24 MR. SPITZER: Same objection. 25 Q. (BY MR. O'CONOOR) If you know. 

## YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO courtreporting, video and videoconferenclng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 producllon@yomreporting.com 

### www.yornreporting.com 15 are not going to let him answer the question as to 16 whether or not an expert in aircraft icing issues was 17 consulted prior to the completion of the EIR report? 18 MR. SPITZER: Yes, that's correct. 19 That's deliberative process. That is the essence of 20 deliberative process. 21 I've been pretty liberal with, you know, 22 letting the questions of who supervises him and 23 everything else, letting him answer that stuff. But at 24 this point, we're getting pretty far afield of what 25 he's here for today, which is to testify about his

## JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01,2013

- Page 66 1 investigation and what he observed as a fact witness in 2 this case. MR. 0'CXJNNOR: Okay. 3 4 Q. (BY MR. O'CONOOR) If you take a look at

-- 5 back to Exhibit B. And we're getting into Alaska 6 Airlines, Inc., violated FARs, Federal Aviation 7 Regulations, and you have Item of Proof Nt.unber 2 . And 8 the version I've been provided is redacted. Do you 9 have that in front of you? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And so in teiii\S of what's been provided to 12 Alaska, there's no -- we don't have infoimation 13 regarding

-- other than these violations, other than 14 what's referred to as the Item of Proof Nt.unber 2; 15 correct? 16 17 A. Correct. MR. 0'CXJNNOR: And I take it, 

## 66

..69
Page 68 1 on this and any discussions that went into it. 2 MR. O'CONNOR: Okay. What's privileged 3 about a recitation of two FARs? 4 MR. SPITZER: Well, it is specific 5 recitations, the choosing of which FARs are listed in 6 here. That's a deliberative process. There's a couple 7 thousand FARs, and obviously, we just didn't mail in 8 the FAR book. So the fact

-- which ones these are, 9 what went into choosing

-- first of all, it shouldn't 10 have been supplied, but any conversation about it is 11 privileged. 12 MR. O'CXJNNOR: So just so we're clear, 13 he's not

-- I can't

-- if I ask him questions about 14 Item of Proof Number 2, are you going to instruct the 15 witness not to answer? 16 MR. SPITZER: You are welcotre to ask 17 questions about what the letterhead says and the 18 Mr. Spitzer, what's been redacted is deliberative in 18 bottom. But anything that went into producing this 19 tenns of what this investigator felt might or might not 19 item of proof is privileged, and I'm going to instruct 20 have been a violation of the FARs

-- 20 him not to answer. 21 22 MR. SPITZER: Yes, that's correct. Q. (BY MR. 0'CXJNNOR) I don't want to know what 23 you wrote. I just want to know what the toPic is in 24 that blocked-out section generally. Don't tell me 25 about this accident. I just want to know what the Page 67 1 purpose is of discussion that we're not allowed to see. 2 A. Stating what specific FARs that were believed 3 to have been violated. 4 5 Q. Just the FARs themselves or the reasons why? A. The FARs, with a -- how do I say it?

-- a 6 staterrent of how I believed they could have been 7 violated based off of the event
. Q. That's fair. I don't want to know what you 9 believe. I just want to know what would have been in 10 that section. 11 MR. 0'CXJNNOR: And for the record, 12 that's deliberative; that's the privilege that's being 13 asserted on that? 14 MR. SPITZER: That's the privilege we're 15 asserting. 16 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Okay. Now, if you take a 17 look at the reference to IOP 2, just so we know what 18 we're talking about

-- if you could grab that out of 19 your packet

-- 20 MR. SPITZER: And this, also, shouldn't 21 22 23 24 MR. O'CONNOR: Let's mark that as C-2. (Deposition Exhibit C-2 was marked for identification.) Q. (BY MR. O'CXJNNOR) Mr. Meisberger, your 25 counsel will not allow you to answer questions Page 69

1 regarding the 

### two FARs that are listed in Item of Proof 2 Number 2, Exhibit C-2. All I want to know is, did you 3 select those 

### two regulations for inclusion in the EIR 4 report? 5 MR. SPITZER: I'm going to instruct him 6 not to answer that

. 7 8 MR. O'CDNNOR: Okay. Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Putting aside whether or 9 not you were the one that decided to include these 10 regulations, are you familiar with FAR 119.5

-- 11 A. Yes. 12 13 Q.

-- as a general matter? A. Yes. 14 Q. How does it work as a practical matter? What 15 is that FAR all about? 16 MR. SPITZER: Objection. Calls for a 17 legal conclusion. 18 MR. O'CXJNNOR: Well, that's a little bit 19 on the edge here. I mean his job is as a regulator

-- 20 MR. SPITZER: He's not here as an 21 have been released. This was inadvertently released by 21 expert. Calls for a legal conclusion. How regulations 22 our office. So any discussion about what went into 23 this is deliberative. Obviously, it is out of the 24 bag-- you guys have it

-- but it shouldn't have been 25 released. It's still --we're still claiming privilege 

# • YAMAGUCHI OB!EN MANGIO court reporting, video and vldcoconferenclng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 productlon@yomreporling.com www.yomreportlng.com 22 work is ftmdamentall

### y a legal conclusion. That's for 23 the lawyers, not for an individual who is an inspector. 24 He's charged with enforcing them, not with coming up 25 with them and/or interpreting them.

### JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01, 2013
Page 74 A. Oh, correct. 1 2 Q. And that's just an excerpt from his statement; 3 correct? 4 A. Correct

. 5 Q. How did you receive that statement fran him, 6 if you recall? 7 A. I would have to check. But I believe that 8 might have been fran an e-rrail, I believe. But I'll 9 need to double-check that''s how I got ahold of. that. 10 Q. Let's pull out and get identified and marked 11 IOP 6. And I'm a little unclear what should be 12 included in that reference. 13 Hold on, though; there might be DXlre to it. 14 Mr. Meisberger, would you just check to see if 15 this should be also included in IOP 6, the letter fran 16 Mr. OWnby, the Privacy Act notice, because I think it 17 should be all 

### one, included together; is that right? 18 A. I believe so. I will have to check my files. 19 But I believe this came in via e-rrail as a response to 20 this (indicating)

. 21 Q. Okay. So let's do this. Let's get that all 22 marked as Exhibit C-6 and have you identify C-6 for the 23 record. 24 A. C-6 is the witness statement fran John Elgee. 25 Q. And that's the first page of C-6. Can you Page 75 

### 74

..77
Page 76 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Why is it that Mr. Wade is the person who's 3 taking the lead in getting a statement from Mr. Elgee? 4 MR. SPITZER: Objection. Deliberative 5 process. 6 7 Don't answer. Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Well_!

...} mean you told me 8 before that Mr. Wade's involvement in all of this is 9 because the way the chain of cCli!IIIaild works when 10 Mr. OWnby is not around, he can review matters that 11 otherwise Mr. OWnby would have to review; is that 12 correct? 13 MR. SPITZER: This is

-- I mean what 14 happens, generally, was what you asked questions about. 15 What you are asking here is specific, and specifics are 16 protected by deliberative process. This is 17 deliberative process. So mve on. 18 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR} Was Mr. Wade involved in 19 this investigation? 20 MR. SPITZER: Same objection. 21 Don't answer. 22 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Did Mr. Wade gather any 23 facts related to this investigation? 24 MR. SPITZER: Same objection. 25 Actually, you can ans>ter that. I'm sorry.
1 describe for me the pages that follow the statement 1 Page 77 A. He obtained a statement. The statement that 2 fran Mr. Elgee. 3 A. I will. And just to clarify, in the very 4 beginning, it does say, Statement provided by John 5 Elgee via e-rrail to Joel Wade. So that is how this did 6 cane into the office. The first page is going to be the e-rrail 8 official staterrent fran Mr. John Elgee. The following 9 two pages -- three to include the Privacy Act notice

-- 10 is a request on FAA letterhead fran this office signed 11 by Michael Ownby to Mr. Elgee to provide an official 12 statement as well as a set of questions that were 13 bulletized for him to answer to help clarify this 14 investigation. 15 Q. Thank you. The signature on page 2 of the 16 letter to Mr. Elgee, whose signature is that? 17 A. That is Joel Wade signing for Mr. Ownby, which 18 is a standard practice for an assistant POI when the 19 POI is not here. 20 Q. So Mr. Wade was involved in the process of 21 obtaining an official statement from Mr. Elgee; 22 correct? A. Correct. 23 24 Q. And it appears that Mr. Elgee e-mailed his 25 response to Mr. Wade; true? 

# • YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO courtreporting, video and videoconferenclng 

### 800.831.6973 205.622.6875 productlon@yomreporting.com www.yomreporti!lg.com 2 we were referring to, which would be Number 6; is that 3_correct? 4 5 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Yes. Anything else? A. I believe that is the only fact or proof

-- 6 item of proof that he provided for the investigation. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. Did he review your EIR? MR. SPITZER: Same objection. Don't answer. MR. O'CONNOR: I'm not

-- on what basis? MR. SPITZER: It is deliberative 12 process. Whether he revie>!ed it or not is imrraterial. 13 The fact of the rratter is we have 

### an EIR. It is 14 sitting before you. You can ask all the questions you 15 want about the EIR and about what went into the 16 investigation. But review and the internal processes, 17 we've shared with you generally what they are. But 18 what happened with this particular one, it's not for 19 the depcsition. It is protected. 20 MR. O'CONNOR: I don't see what is 21 deliberative about whether or not a person, as a matter 22 of fact, reviewed the EIR. 23 MR. SPITZER: That's inherently a 24 deliberative process. That is a -- whether sorrebody 25 who was involved in the review of this or not, that is

### JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 

## OJ, 2013 106

.. 109
Page I06 Page I08 1 2 A. 'That is correct. Q. Okay. What took so long? 3 MR. SPITZER: Objection. Deliberative 4 process. 5 

### Don' t answer. 6 Q. (BY MR. O'CON!«lR) In your experience, have 7 you ever been involved in an investigation where 8 there's a year-and-a-half lag fran when the 9 investigation 

### is conpleted until a notice of proposed 10 civil penalty goes out? 11 A. No, not in 

### my experience. 12 Q. was there any reason that you are aware of 

### in 13 tenns of further investigation that needed to take 14 place 

### in all of 2012? Is there any investigation 15 activity related 

### to this flight 

### in 2012? 16 A. I am -- I'm net certain of when I

-- when the 17 packet actually left this office, if it left in early 18 2012, January 2012, or if it left later on in the year. 19 So I'm net sure if there was any follow-on 20 investigation going on in 2012. 21 22 23 (Reporter interruption for clarification.) THE WI'INESS: Or continuing. Sorry. Q, (BY MR. O'CONOOR) And at least do you recall 24 specifically any investigation activities that occurred 25 in the second half of 2012?

- Page 107 1 A. I don't recall any. 2 Q. Did you have any conversations towards the end 3 of 2012

-- and I don't need to know the substance of 4 it, but were you involved 

### in any discussions about this 5 incident in the second half of 2012? A. The only discussions that I was privy to was, 7 we asked our regional office, Have you heard anything 8 about the case? If it was continuing or net. 9 Q. What's the regional office? 10 11 12 13 A. ANM-240, our technical structure branch. Q. somehow the file had gotten up their way? A. Correct. Q. Do you have an estimate as 

### to when you were 14 probably done with your assignment to investigate this 15 matter? 16 A. I believe

-- and I think this was early, so in 17 January of 2012, if I'm remembering correctly, because 18 it was -- I believe I was done with it before I went on 19 a long IDY to Oklahoma City. And I believe this was 20 one of the items I rrade sure was done before I left for 21 two rronths to Oklahoma City. 22 Q. When did you do the TDY? 23 24 25 A. I did it mid-February through March. Q. 2012? A. 2012, yes. 

## YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO court reporting, video and vldcoconfercnclng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 production@yomreporting.com www.yomreportlng.com 1 Q. But far as whether --you can't tell me 2 whether it might have been

-- your portion of the 3 investigation could have been conpleted in 2011? 4 A. I believe 

### my investigation part was conpleted 5 in 2011. Whether or net there were typos that were 6 fixed in 2012

-- but I'm alrrost positive it was shipped 7 out January of 2012, because I was leaving. 8 Q. And that would have been all the write-up 9 and

-- 10 A. It would have been all

-- 11 Q.

-- and gathering the lOPs and all of that 12 would have been before you went 

### to Oklahoma City? 13 A. Correct. It would have been everything that 14 you have. 15 Q. What happens once the Section B is done and 16 you've gathered all of your items of proof together 17 with Section B, what happens next with the package? 18 A. We follow= office procedure, which is once 19 the sections are conpleted and you have a full 20 start-to-finish report, including all of the items of 21 proof, that gets circulated, basically, for signatures, 22 and it is a QC to make sure that we're providing 23 ANM-240, who then will take that and do whatever they 24 need do and speak with counsel, to rrake sure we have 25 all of that checklist and things done, conpleted, so Page 109 1 we're not giving the next office an inconplete packet. 2 Q. Okay. And is this checklist what's also known 3 as Section A? 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. I believe so. Q. Okay. MR. O'alNNOR: Let's rrark this as A. (Deposition Exhibit Awas rrarked for identification.) Q. (BY MR. O'CONOOR) Take a look at what we've 10 marked as Exhibit A, and let Ire know if you've seen 11 this document before. 12 13 14 A. I have. Q. And what 

### is Exhibit A? A. This is

-- it is a checklist that we require 15 for when 

### we conplete an enforcement case, or at least 16 conplete all of the inforrration. We run through this 17 to rrake sure that basically 

### we haven't provided an 18 inconplete packet for the next set of folks that are 19 going to be looking at this. 20 Q. And Exhibit A, it bears the same EIR m.unber, 21 2011NM020013, as the investigation into Flight 86; 22 correct? 23 24 25 A. 'That is correct. Q. And did you fill out this checklist? A. No, I did not.

## JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01,2013 110

.. 113
PagellO Pagell2 1 2 Q. Who filled it out? A. Joel Wade. 3 Q. The reporting ASI, and that's listed as you; 4 correct? A. That is correct. 5 6 Q. And the reviewer is Mr. Wade; is that correct? 7 A. That is true.
_ 8 Q. Specifically with respect to the cc:mnents on 9 the third page -- 10 MR. SPITZER: I'm going to object to 11 this. I don't know where this document 

### cawe from, but 12 this is not something that sJ.:ould have been supplied. 13 Did this come from our release? 14 MR. O'CONNOR: Yes. This is something 15 that's in my file. 16 MR. SPITZER: This should not have left 17 this office. This is protected. Any discussion of 18 this is deliberative. It is protected. 19 Q. (BY MR. O'CONOOR) So with respect to the 20 ccmnent on Section A, that there is no conclusive 21 evidence to support the alleged violation

-- 22 MR. SPITZER: I'm going to object to any 23 discussion of things that are on here. This shouldn't 24 have been supplied. We're maintaining this is 25 privileged.

- Page 1.11 1 MR. O'CONNOR: I can't ask him

-- 2 Q. (BY MR. O'CONOOR) Did you write that ccmment 3 in Section A? 4 MR. SPITZER: Again, that's 5 deliberative, who wrote it. That's all 

### part of the 6 internal procedures. This should never have been 7 released. MR. O'CONNOR: Well, it has been. 9 MR. SPITZER: Well, we're continuing 10 to

-- we're continuing to maintain that this is 11 privileged under deliberative process. So why it was 12 released erroneously is beyond !T'e, but it shouldn't 13 have been. And we're going to continue to maintain 14 that anything that's asked about who filled this out or 15 what it is

-- obviously, you have it, but questions 16 about it, they are all privileged. This should never 17 have been released. 18 19 identify

-- 20 21 MR. 0'CONNOR: Can I ask him to
MR. SPITZER: No. MR. O'CONNOR: This is going to be a 1 issue in rrotions. It shouldn't have been released, and 2 any discussion about it is privileged. I'm going to 3 instruct the witness not to answer anything about this 4 docwrent. 5 MR. O'CONNOR: Can we at least identify 6 the author of the ccmrents? 7 8 9 MR. SPITZER: No. That's privileged. MR. O'CONOOR: How? MR. SPITZER: It is privileged as 10 deliberative process. What's written in here is 11 written in for internal review. I mean there's

-- who 12 wrote it is part of the deliberative process of this 13 agency. So it is privileged, and we're not going

-- 14 I'm going to object to any questions about it. 15 MR. O'CONNOR: Well, I think

-- you 16 know, we have a waiver issue, so we need to understand 17 who drafted this as part of that. 18 MR. SPITZER: We'll deal with the waiver 19 issue with a rrotion. But this is not the questions and 20 I'm going to instruct the witness not to answer any of 21 the questions you ask about this. 22 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNOR) Okay. Well, just for the 23 record, I had some questions for you, Mr. Meisberger, 24 about the canment in Section A that there is no 25 conclusive evidence to support the alleged violation. Page 113 1 Your counsel has instructed you that you are not to 2 answer any of my questions about that cooment, 3 including who the author of that ccmnent is. And I 4 take it that you are going to follow your counsel's 5 instruction and not answer 

### any questions about that? 6 A. That is correct. 7 Q. Same question with respect to the ccmnents on 8 Section B that Witness Elgee's credibility is in 9 question. Your counsel has advised and instructed you 10 not to answer any questions regarding ccmnents 11 regarding Mr. Elgee's credibility in this case, 12 including who is the author of that statement. Are you 13 going to follow that instruction and not answer any of 14 my questions regarding Mr. Elgee's credibility or who 15 authored that statement? 16 17 A. That is correct. Q. Okay. And the last part, I don't think I need 18 to ask you about, because you•ve already confirmed it 19 for me. But "Mr. Elgee acted contrary to logic and 20 sacrificed his believability by not notifying the 21 flight crew prior to takeoff." Your counsel has 22 motion for sure. So we need to figure out who prepared 22 advised and instructed you not answer 

### any questions 23 this so we can determine whether the privilege applies 23 regarding that ccmment, including the author of that 24 and when. There's clearly a waiver issue here. So... 24 statement. And I take it that you are going to follow 25 MR. SPITZER: We'll deal with the waiver 25 that advice and not provide any responses to any 

## YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO court reporting, video and vldeoconferenclng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 production@yomreporting.com www.yomreportlng.com

### JUSTIN MEISBERGER; August 01, 2013
Page 114 

### 1 questions I might have 

### about that ccmment; is that 2 

### correct? 3 4 5 A. 

### That is correct
. Q. 

### That's a long question. MR. 0'

### CXJNNOR: Okay. I need a 6 

### five-minute break, and then we'll ccxre back 

### and wrap it 7 

### up. 8 THE 

### WITNESS : Okay. (Recess taken.) 10 MR. 

### O'CXJNNOR: Mr. 

### Meisberger, I don't 11 

### have any rrore questions for you at this tirre. We've 12 

### had a discussion off the record that we are going to 13 

### continue your deposition until we can seek some 14 

### guidance from the court on the privilege issues that 15 

### have been raised 

### today. 16 

### So what I have agreed with Mr. 

### Spitzer

-- you 17 

### can confirm or make any rrodifications

-- is that we 18 

### will very quickly get scxrething to the court on two 19 

### issues: 20 

### One, compelling responses to questions, 21 

### perhaps scxre documents related to privilege and waivers 22 

### that have arisen today in your 

### deposition. 23 

### And two, in 

### order to allow time for that being 24 

### resolved prior to the hearing, we're going to make a 25 

### request to continue the hearing for some time 

### to allow Page 115 1 those issues to get sorted out. Is that a fair statement

-- MR. SPITZER: Yes. MR. O'CONNOR:
-- of what we're going to 5 be doing here? What that means is, you are dor:e for now. If 7 there is some relief provided to Alaska on some of 8 these issues, we may be reopening your deposition. 9 What that also means, Mr. Spitzer, we are 10 going to put off Mr. Wade's deposition until such time 11 as these issues can be resolved, because they are 12 likely to come up in his deposition, just as they did 13 in Mr. Meisberger's deposition. So I assume you are 

## 114

..117
Page 116 1 CORRECTION & SIGNATURE PAGE 2 REo In the Matter of Alaska Airlines; U.S. DOT, OFFICE OF HEARINGS; 2011NM020013 JUSTIN MEISBERGER; TAKEN AUGUST 1, 2013 Reported by: SALLY J. HANDS, CCR 2191

I, JUSTIN MEISBERGER, have read the within transcript taken AUGUST 1, 2013, and the same is true 6 and accurate except for any changes and/or corrections,

if any, as follows: 7 PAGE LINE

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 CORRECTION REASON

21 Signed at.
_______ _ Washington 22 23 24 25 on this date:

JUSTIN MEISBERGER Page 117 REPORTER 1S CERTIFICATE

3 I, SALLY J. HANDS, the undersigned Certified Court 4 Reporter, pursuant to RCW 5.28.010 authorized to adii\inister 5 oaths and affirmations in and for the State of Washington, do 6 hereby certify that the sworn testimony and/or proceedings, a 7 transcript of which is attached, was given before me at the S time and place stated therein; that any and/or all witness(es) 9 were duly sworn to testify to the truth; that the sworn 10 testimony and/or proceedings were by me stenographically 11 recorded and transcribed under my supervision, to the best of 12 my ability; that the foregoing transcript contains a full, 13 true, and accurate record of all the sworn testimony and/or 14 proceedings given and occurring at the time and place stated 14 agreeable to postponing that deposition until we have a 15 in the transcript; that a review of which was requested; that 15 ruling. 16 I am in no way related to any party to the matter, nor to any 16 MR. SPITZER: Of course17 MR. O'CONNOR: That's all. 18 (Deposition adjourned at 1:16 p.m.) 19 (Signature reserved.) 20 21 22 23 24 25 

# • YAMAGUCHI OBIEN MANGIO court reporting, videoand videoconferenelng 

### 800.831.6973 206.622.6875 production@yomreporting.com www.yomreportlng.com 17 counsel, nor do I have any financial interest in the event of 18 the cause. 19 WITNESS MY HAND AND DIGITAL SIGNATURE this 5th day of 20 August, 2013 21 22 23

24 SALLY J. HANDS Washington State Certified Court Reporter, CCR 2191 25 shands®yomreporting.com

# EXHIBITD

# . Revision 

# 0 AVS Quality 'Management 

# System QPM# 

## AFS**ANM-200~01**

## 0 F1 2 

## Tifle: AFS ANM-200·010 F1 EIR REVIEW CHECKLIST Effective Date: October.24, .2008 

## Page 1 of3 

## If

# a problem is identified in any area, enter a comment in the corresponding comment block on page 

# 3, identifying the checklist question numberin the text of the comment. 1 

## EIR Number:
- 2011 NM020013 Reporting AS

# I: Meisberger 

# I

Respondent's Name: .Alaska Airlines Reviewer's Name: Wade 

# I**R~eview D~te:**  

## March 23, 2011 

# I Yes No Administrative EIR's, require Checklist Section

# A only. Is this an Administrative EIR? 

# D [gj [ ;, •.., .\.n 

### .,:;.'-\#'

## ~;,~,., J ;.;.;.·.•

## :z

## ~~':Ji"i.-,-'!TI.-,.,,·;:;·**~i~ ;;;,--~''in:,,**  

## o**t~"np. ~·** **J:'''"ft··~·~J:i''** 

## ,_.l**~"'** 

## \:-

'1 _..**-~** .. ......**~** - ...... ':;,-

--- -·- .......... _,., .., .**..J~ ~**  ,.,..w ..• -- .• #iJ,

.... -, ....-·.**~-,,** '

...**~** 

## -1_-- nfapplicable, is Related EIR number identified? -·**~~--~-N/A--[j~~-~--0-**



## 2. Blocks 1-7 complete? (Address shol11d match the information from airman/aircraft 

# rZl D. registry, 

# if applicable.) 

# 3. Blocks 8-12 (aircraft) complete? (If an aircraft was involved then these blocks should

# ~ 

# D be completed.) 1-

. .

# ~ 

# 0 4. Blocks 13-14, Date andTime consistent with ''local"**tim~?** 

# ! 4a. Based on the Date Occurred (13) does the case fall within stale comEiaint deadlines?

# ~ 

# LJ 5. Is block 15, "Date Known to (anyone) in FAA", accurate? 

# !Zl Q_ 6. Block 18; are the ''Regulations Believed Violated" cited? 

# .IZJ .D 6a. Does each regulation cited, correlate with the apparent violation? 

# ·N 

# u 6b. Is each regulation cited, an enforceable tegulat:ion? ,lZJID 6c. Have all ap_Qiicable regulations been cited? 

# rzJ J[ ] 7. Blocks (**19~23),** 

## are the two-digit codes selected for "Type",**"Sub~type",** 

## "Category''.,

# .~ 

# D usource" and "Accident .Associated" consistent With Order2150.38 (Appendix G)? 8 Is the Investigating Field Office Recommendation for: ' 

## Sa. Block (25) 'Type Action", appropriate? (Admin, CP, Suspension, No Action} 

# 0 [gj_ Bb. Block (26) "Sanction··, appropriate? (blank 

# if"no action"; warning notice or letter of 

# D**~Z~·** 

## correction if.Admin action, or if 

## CP or**certificat~e** 

## action specify dollars or days 8c. Is the reporting lnsQector's name entered? 

# [gj

# -B.9. Does the "Date" block (27) reflect date signed by manager? 

# [gj 

# 10. Does the "lnvestigat,ing Office" block (28) reflect the office identifier? 

# l[gJ 

# D 11. Is the office manager's {or their designee's) name and signature entered?

# ~ 

# D 12. Does this EIR meet the conditions ofa Significant Enforcement Case? 

# 0 l2?J**-~** 

# lJ i::i- 

## 12a. If yes, was this case assessed in accordance with .AFS ANM-200-003? N/A 

# 0**J..::~--~~~,(~·~,_:_~-t~: ·~-~~,**  

## :;**.-~~' -~~:;·** **--~-\-:_r -:,',~** **~~-** 

# : ..,-,,_; :>·**,~·,** 

# .7**~·:-:**

# ...;_.;>;" ,;,t**~~~.-~ L,~,·:~_'** **~-.;.,,-~1_.""·~~;~:-H ~**  :___,, 'j 

## ,_ r I

- 

# 1. -- 

## Does Section B contain a statement ofthe originor basis for the investigation?

# ~ 

# [ J

2. Does Section B contain a concise statement ofthe facts and regulatory and statutory 

# [gJ 

# 0 violations to include a discussion of howfihe facts establish the violation(s)? 

# 3. Is the Statement of Case ahd Factors Affecting Sanction format presented 

# fZI 

# D chronological!):':, addressing each element ofthe cited r'egulations? 

# 3a. Is the Statement of Case and Factors Affecting Sanction format presented in an 

# IZl D orderly and logical manner to address; who, when, where, why and how? 

# 3. Does each reference for an Item of Proof (lOP) appear directly after the statement 

# it**~** 

# D supports? 4. 

## Are each ofthe cited regulations addressed in Section B? 

# '[gj 

# 0 TJNrONTROT.I.F.O rOPY Wl-lF.N OOWNl.OADF.D

# .,. AVS QPM# Revision 

# Quality Management System AFS ANM-200-010 F1 2

· Title:


# 5. 5a. Sb. 

# :5c. 5d. AFS ANM-200-010 F1 EIR REVIEWCHECKLIST Effective Date: October24, 2008 

## Page 2 of3


## Are each ofthe foBowing Factors Affecting Sanction analyzed with regard to I

# Mrr AGG; 1

# e-5r:·t~a 1 

## their relevance.and!or

# applica~ility? (ref

## 2150.38_Ghpt 

## 7, Pa-ra 4 

## and Chpt 

## 8, Para 3b) 

# !

_·-- _**·,_-~~~~** j Nature ofthe VIOlatiOn. (Operatronal, Non-Operational, Careless, Reckless, etc.) 

# I2Sl D 

# 1 

# orori Whether the violation was inadvertent and notdeliberate? 

# fZJ 

# D LOJ_J _OJJ, Certificate holder's level ofexperience? ,]-

# ~

# LDJJ:lJ Attitude of

# the violator? 

# D l:8l 

# OJ

# Ow 1---S_e_.**-+-D_e~uwee** ofhazard? :·How safety was affected"

. 

# D 

# fEl--UJ I

# ,0. 5f. Act1on(s} taken by vtolator, employer or other authonty? 

# [EI 

# I

# D ,0 0 ; 5g. Use ofthe certificate? 

# D fZ] 1

# D [ l ' 5h. 

# 1 Violation historyl_jSummary)

# ~ I0 

# 0 !

# 0

# _[~- _

# ~::**~~~\~~~~~:,: ~~t:~~~ed**  by legal) 

# I

# D 

# [j I

# ~ff3 5k. Consistency ofsanction? (RFSD)

. 

# 0 0 [g) 

# 0 51. Whether the violation was reported voluntar.ily?**~** 

# :0 

# !Zi 0 Sm. Corrective Action?**~** 

# ID**~** 

# D

6. Does Section 8 include the following under Factors Affecting Sanction? MIT :AGGY;;s 

## No

. .**~-j-,=--,.--;-;.=** -- ·- .**·~** 

## 6a. 6b. 6c. 6d. 6d(1 ). '6d(2). Eyaluation ofthe reliability ofthe evidence (lOP's)? 

# .D D 1

# (g] 

# D**Discus~ion** of any

# conflicti~g ·evidence?

. .

# ~ . 

# 0 0**~.Q** Analysis ofthe apparent VIOlator's explanation, 1f prov1ded?**~** 

# 0 ID -Discussion ofany other mitigating, extenuating or aggravating factors?

# ~ 

# 0 !01 

# 0

Consideration of aggravating factors for Unruly Passengers? N/A 

# [EJ '- 

# O_,_TI 0-=-- {ref2150.38 chpt 7, paragraph 12 (b) (1-7} 

## Consideration of mitigating factors for Unruly Passengers? (ref2150.3B chpt 7,_paragraph 12 (c) 

# NIA**~** 

# 0 

# D 

# DO 6e. • Opinions, 

# if applicable? 

# 0 D {gj 

# D 6f. A 

## stated conclusion?

.- 

# 0 D [ J

# a 6g. A recommendation about sanction? 

# 0 0 IZ!I.D 6h. Justification for -enforcement action and sanction recommendations? i 

# D D cgj 

# D

7. Enforcement Decision Tool 

# (EDT) Yes· 

# No ,**~7~a-.-+~ls-t~h-e~E~D~T~in-c~lu_d_e_d~in~S-e-ct~io-n~8~?~. -------------------------------------;~1]~**  

# 7b. Is the EDT Acceptable?

# ~**r-~**

## 8. 1

## Regional Program Office Sanction Recommendation as applicable? 

# _D• jgj 

# 1. 2. 3. 4. 

# 5. , (C) EJR SecHon C, Items o!

# ~--·---c**--------------~Ye=is,·**r=N=;-c-jl Is each lOP clearly identified? 

# cgj 

# D Are the lOP's in a logical sequence? 

# I[ZJ 

# :0 If photos are included are they**ex~lained?** 

# [29 

# :o If documents are they legible 

# I understandable 

# I relevant?

# ~ 

# :0 Is there at least one lOP to support every element ofeach regulationcited in sections A 

# IZI U and 8? 6. 

# I Is each "Fact" in Section 

# B supported by .an lOP? 

# [ZJ 

# l 

# J 7. 1 

## Does each "Fact" repr.esent the applicable lOP atface value (i.e. accept the lOP as true 

# I regardless ofour own opinions)? 8. 

## Are all appropriate lOP's included in the Section 8 presentation of Facts? i 

### T INCONTROT.T 

### .F.n r.OPYWHF.N nOWNl,OAnF.n 

# )ZJ 

# Dl

I j

# ·o • 

# AVS QPM# Revision 

# ,Quality Management System AFS ANM-200-010 F1 2 Title: AFS ANM-200-010 F1 EIR REVIEW CHECKLIST Effective Date: October.24, .2008 Page 3of3


## Item Comments Section "A"

8a There is no conclusive evidence to support the alleged violation. 8b See 8a

'



## Item Comments Section "B" 

# ! 6a Witness Elgee credibility is in question. 6a Witness Elgae acted contrary to logic and sacrificed believability by not notify,ing flight crew prior to takeoff. 7b It is this reviewer's opinion that blocks 7 

# & 8 ,in Step Two ofthe EDP are unchecked due to reasons external and irrelevant to this investigation

.

...

I



# Itern 

## Ccrr.rnent5 

# Seoi01; ·c ·

---



# I 

# I 

# I Item S0'11!T.ents ·

# Er.i01**cerr~~nt** 

## Oar.;**;:.;1o~** 

## Tool

TINCY>NTROTJ 

## ;rm r'OPY

## WHF.N DOWNY.OADF.D

# EXHIBITE

### U.S. Deportment of Transportation 

## ,federal Aviation Administration


## December 31, 2012 Northwest

### Mountain Region 

### Office of Regional Counsel Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming 1601 Lind Avenue S.W. Renton, Washington 98057 

### Tel: 

### (425) 227-1417 Fax: (425) 227-1007 robert.spitzer@faa.gov 

# FAACaseNo. 2011NM020013 VIAEXPRESS 1v1AIL, FIRSTCLASS and CERTIFIED 

# MAIL- RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED Mr. BradleyTilden, President AlaskaAirlines, Inc. P.O. Box 68900 Seattle, WA 98168 

# NOTICEOFPROPOSED CIVILPENALTY Areport ofinvestigationindicates that: 

# Atas1c:a Airlines RECEIVED 

# !JAN 

# 03Z012 -pres\dent's

# omca S£AYZ



# 1. AlaskaAirlines, Inc. (Alaska) is now and was at all times relevantherein the holder ofAirCarrier CertificateNo. ASAA802A. 2. The above-described certificate was issued pursuantto 

# 14 Code ofFederal Regulations (C.P.R.) 

## Part ] 

# 19, and permitsAlaskato operate aircraft pursuantto 

# 14 C . .F.R. jJart 

# 121. 3. At all timesrelevantherein Paragraph D085 ofAlaska's Operations Specifications (OpSpecs) authorizedAlaskato use N323AS, a Boeing**737~** 

## 990 civil aircraft (the aircraft), inthe conduct ofAlaska's Pmi 

## 12'I 

## operations. 4. At all times relevantherein, ParagraphA023 ofAlaska's OpSpecs authorized theuse ofAlaska's Flight Operations Manual Section 6.100 Bulletin 10-25. 5. At all timesrelevant herein, the above-described Flight operations Manual Section 6. 100 Bulletin 1**0~**

## 25 prohibitedAlaska aircraft from taking offwhen frost was present on an aircraft's upper wing surface. 6. On or aboutJanuary 7, 2011;-Alaska operated the aircraft as Flight 86 (a Pari 121 flight) betweenAnchorage, Alaska and Seattle, Washington. 7. Theabove-described flight departedAnchorage, Alaskadespite the factthat frost was adhering to the aircraffs upper wing surfaces. 8. Byreason ofthe above, Alaskatookoffwithan aircraft when frost was adhering to thewings ofthe aixcraft.

## Alaska Airlines- 2011NM020013 December 31, 2012 Page 2 

## Byreason ofthe foregoing circumstances, it appears thatAlaskaviolatedthe following sections ofthe FederalAviation Regulations (14 C.P.R.):

a. Section 119.5(1), when it operated the aircraft under Part 121 when itfailed to comply with its Operations Specifications by taking offthe aircraft with frost ontheupper wingsurface, b. Section 121.629(b), when it took offwithan aircraftwithfrost on the upper wing surface. Under49 United States Code (U.S.C.) Sections 46301(a) and (d), with modifications set forth at 14 C.F.R. Part 13, SubpruiH, Alaskais subjectto a civil penaltynotto exceed $27,500 for eachviolation noted. 

# We proposeto assess a civil penalty

# in the amount of $16,000. Enclosedis information concerning options inresponding to this Notice. The options include pruiicipating in ail 

## informal. conference with a FederalAviationAdministration (FAA) Artomey ru1d submissionofinfonnationto the FAAfor consideration. You must submit, in ·writing, your choice ofthe alternatives explained ontheenclosed infonnation form, on or beforethirty (30) days after you receive this Notice. 

# IfAlaska fails to submitits choicewithinthattitne, 

# it will havenofurther rightto participate in

# the two (2) informalprocedmes listed above. 

# Ifyouhave any questions regru·ding this Notice, please contactFAAAttorney Robert Spitzer attelephone number (425) 227-1417. DOUGLAS R. ANDERSON ActingRegional Counsel

By:

Enclosures: Information Sheet/Reply Form/FAR 13.16 and SubpartG ofPart 13 RS/tek

cc: Kyle Levine AlaskaAirlines 19300International Blvd. Seattle, WA 98188

# EXHIBITF

## 07/25/2013 09:57 4252271007 ANiv17



# UNITED STATES OF AMERlCA 

# DEPARTMENT OFTRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS**WASHINGTON~** 

# 0.9.. Michael J. 

# Huerta, Administrator · FederalAviationAdministration; PAGE 02/05 

# I CALENDARED 

## I MORRISON & FOERSTER 

## I DOCKET DEPT. 

## I I July 30, 2013 

## I 1 For Date(s):**-=-,.....---:::--::-=~--:--** 

# ! Brian S. Mitchell



# ·**Complainant~** 

# FAACaseNwnbe.r: 2011NM020013 

# FDMS No. FAAM2013-0287


# AlaskaAirlines; Respondent. vs. Judge 

# Richard Goodwin



# ADMINISTRATOR'S RESPONSE TO**BESPO~ENT'S**

# FIRST SET 

# OF INTERROGATORIES !NDREQUEST FORPRODUCTION OFDOCYMENTS
The Administrator, through his**representatives~** 

# hereby submits this responseto 

# the Respondent's Hrst Set ofInterrogatories and Requestfor Production ofDocuments. The Administrator · reserves the rightto amend these responses. Additionally, theAdministratorreserves the rightto call 

# anyVlritness oruse any documentwhich the Respondent 

# ,uses inhis presentation

# ofthe case attrial. 'Responses to Reqnests·forInterrogatories ·INTERROGATORYNO. 

# t:Pleaseidentify eachexpertwitness you might caJJ at the hearing, state in

# detailthe opinions to

# whichthe expertmighttestify, and describethe grounds for eachopinion

.. RESPONSE: Th.e Administratorintendsto call Thomas BondtheFAA's.ChjefScientific and Technical Advisor for FlightEnvironmental Icing, 800Independence Ave., S.W. 

# Washington. DC 20591, 202-3**73-4.503~** 

# as the Agency's experton environmental aircrafticing. Thomas Bondwill testify

# that from.

# hisreviewofthephotographstakenofthe subject aircraftonthe subjectflight, that the aircrafthad frost on**j~** 

# wings in

# flight, andthatthe frostwhichwas presentontlle wings must have beenformed onthe**ground~**

# prior

# to takeoff. ThomasBondwill additionallytestify thatthe frostposed adangerto 

# the aircraft. This 

# opinionisbased

# uponhis knowledge andexperience, as well as his review ofthe**file~** 

# includingthe photographs 

# inthe subjectcase. 

# INTERROGATORYNO.2: Has any 

# expertidentifiedin

# response to InterrogatoryNo.1 pre\oiously served as atestifying expertforthe Federal AviationAdrci,nistrationin anothercivil penalty action?

Complainant's**Rcsp(lt~Se**

### to Respondent's first Set 

## oflo.t.errogatorics and RC>I'IEP.T SPITZER. 

### FAA 

## A1"roR.NEY Requestfor Produotion 

## ofDocument.:; 

## Alll.llkaAirlinos- FDMS No. FAA·2013-028i**TEL~** 

## (42S) 227-1417; FAX: 

## (425) 227-1007. Page 1of4

## 07/25/2013 09:57 4252271007 PAGE 03/05



# Ifso! please identifythe personor

# entity againstwhomeach

# action was initiated, identi.tythat person's orentity's attorney) br:ie.fly 

# describethe nature and disposition ofthe action, andprovidethe case number. 

# RESPONSE: A

# ·list

# ofthe**expert~**

# sprevious

# testimony will be 

# forthcoming. INTERROGAIO.RY.liO. 3Pleasepro"ide witnessJohn Elgee1

# scurrent

# contactinformation, ·includinghishome address. business address, e·mail address, andtelephone numbers. 

# RESPONSE: John Elgee,P.O. Box 306, Conway, WA 98238, 907·355-2263. INTERROGATORYNQ. 4: Has

# JohnElgeepreviously

# been awitness forthe Federal

# Aviation Administrationinanother civilpenalty actiOll? Ifso,pleaseidentifythe personor. entity against whomeachaction 

# 'vas initiated, identity

# thatperson's orentiiy1 

# s

# atto.mey, briefly describe the nature and disposition ofthe actio11, andprovidethecasenumber.

. · RESPONSE: Asearch ofrecords revealedno FAAcivil penaltyactjons whichused

# Mr. JolmElgee 

# as awitness. INTERROGATORYNO. 5: Pleaseidentifyall other

# persons who haveanyknowledge relatingto the 

# allegations

# in yourcomplaint. Foreach suchperson) statethenature

# ofhis orherknowledge. RESPONSE: Objection, this requestseeks information whichisprivilegedasattorney-client oommunication, orattorney work-product. The objecti.on. nonwithstanding, all 

# individuals w:ith · knowledge ofthe subjectmatterare identifiedinthereleasableportions oftheEIRpreviously released. · Respoo.stS to Requests forProduction·**ofD~cuments** 

# BEQUEST FORPRQQUCTIONNO. 1: Pleaseproduce the mostrecentresume orcurriculum vitae and fee schedule for eachexpertwho mighttestifyatthe hearing. 

# RESPONSE: Will beprovided. Thomas Bond is

# receiving no fee. forhis

# testimony apartfromhis. 

# FAA salary·. REQUEST FORPRODUCTION NO. 2: Ifany expertwho mighttestify atthe**he~ing**

# hasprepared a

# written reportregardingthis matter, pleaseproduce acopy. RESPONSE: See previouslytransmitted releasableportions ofthe EnforcementInvestigative Report (EIR).

Complalnan.t's**RcspoD~!l** 

## to 'Respondent's 

## First Set

## (l.fJnterrogatori..:s and Request for Prod.uction ofDm;umonts 

## AlaskaAirlines- 

## F.DMS No.**FAA~.20l3·0287** Page 

### 2of4 ' ROBERT SPITz:e;R., FAAA.TTORNEY 

### TEL: (425) 227·1417; 

## FAX: (425) 227·!Ci07

## 07/25/2013 09:57 4252271007 ANM7 

## PAGE 04/05
'1



# REQUESTFORPRODUCTIONNO. 3: Pleaseproduce all v.-itness statements, whetllerwrittenor

recorded, that

# relatetothe allegations ill 

# the complaint.**RESPO~SE:** 

# Seepreviouslytransmittedreleasableportionsofthe

# EIR REQUEST FOR 

# :eRODUCTIONNO. 4: Pleaseproduce all correspondence, including e-mails, any employee ofthe Federal AviationAdministration**h~** 

# sent

# to orreceived

# fromJohnElgecregarding· 

# tlli.s action orthe 

# allegations inthe complaint. 

# RESPONSE: Objection, this request seeks attorney communication and orattorneyworkproduct. The 

# objectionnonwithstanding, please seepreviouslytransmittedEIR. REQUESTFORPRODUCTIONNO. 5: Pleaseproduce all 

# otherdocuments (includingreports, photographs. 

# video recordings, anddiag:ram.s) thatrelate 

# in.

# any way

# to the allegatio:ns in 

# 1he complaint 

# RESPONSE: See previouslytransmitted :releasableportions oftheEIR. Respectfully submittedthis 

# 25th day 

# ofJuly

# 2013. DWIGHTWILLIAMS 

# Regional Counsel

By: 

# Robert Spitzer Attorney 

# Office ofthe Regional 

# Counsel (AMN-7) Federal AviationAdministration 1601 LindAvenue, SW Renton. WA 98057 (404) 227-1417 

# (404) 227"1007 FAX 

# E-mail Address: 

# robert.spit1..er@faa.gov

Complainant's

## Response to**R~spondent's**

## First Set 

## ofInterrogatories and RequestforProductionofDocuments 

## Alaska.**Airlit~es-** 

## FDMS Nq. F'AA-2013-0287**Pag~;** 

### 3

# or4 ROBERT SPITZER. 

### FAA A'!'TORNEY 

### Ta:(425)227-1417: FAX: (425) 227-1007

## 07/25/2013 09:57 4252271007 ANfv17



# .CER]JFICATE OX**SERVIC~**


# Ihereby certifythatthe foregoing Administrator's Response to Respondent's firstrequest for Discovery has been servedviaFax andFirst-Class Mail this date, to 

# the following: Geoffrey M. Grindeland Mills,**Mey~,** 

# Swartlin.g 1000 Second

# Avenue, 30thFloor SeatUe, VVJ\ 

# 98104-1064 · Fax: 206-267-6746 Jeremy Ross 

# SeniorAttorney AlaskaAirlines, Inc. 

# P.O. Box 68900- 

# SEAZL Seattle. WA98168 Fax: 206-392-5468 Datedthis 25th day of

# July, 2013.
Terri Kf

.. · Office ofRegional Couo.sel**(ANM~T)**



# FederalAviationAdministration 1601 LindAve. SW 

# Renton, WA 98057 (425) 227-2160 PAGE 05/05**Complaint~.nt's**

## Rcspoose to 

## RcspOf.ldent's FirstSet ofInterrogatories and Requestfor :Production "f**Document~** 

### ROBERt SI>TTZER., 

### FAAATTORNEY 

## Alaska**Airlioe~ ~** 

## FDMS No. FAA-201:3·0287 

## .Page 4of4 TEf

..:(425) 227-141 7; FAX; 

## (425) 227-1007

# .·. 07/25/2013 09:57 4252271007 ANrv17



# :FACSIMILE MESSAGE 

# FEDERAL A 'VIATJON ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF REGIONAL COUNSEL ANM-7 

# 1601 LIND A VENUE S.W. RENTON,WASIDNGTON 98057 PAGE 01/05



# The information contained in this .facsimilemessage is legally priv.ileged and confidential-· information and is intended

# only for the use ofthe individual named onthis cover sheet. 

# Ifthe reader ofthismessage is notthe intendedrecipient, 

# you are hereby notifiedthat any**use~** 

# dissemination., distribution. orcopy ofthis 

# facsimile is strictly prohibited. Ifyou have receivedthis facsimile in error, please immediately notify us by

# telephone at 425-227-2007.

.


# DATE:. 

# July 25, 2013 NO. PAGES: 5 

# including cover 

# TO: Geo.ffrey Grindeland 

# FROM: 

# Robert Spitzer FAXNO.: 

# 206-267-6746 FAXNO.:**425~227-1**

# 007 PHONENO.: PHONE NO.: 

# 425-227-1847 RE: FAACaseNo. 

# EMAIL: robert.spitzer@faa.gov 

# 2011NJ\.f020013 

# ADMINISTRATORS RESPONSE TO RESPONDENTS FIRST 

# SET OF INTERROGATORIES AND REQUEST FOR 

# PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS

# EXHIBIT G



# L

# 1 

# 2 3 4 5 

# 6 7 

# 8 Geoffrey M. Grindeland CarynGeraghtyJorgensen Mills MeyersSwartling 1000 2ndAvenueSuite 3000 Seattle, WA 98104 Tele: 206-812-7451 Fax: 206-267-6746

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA I CALENDARED 

## I MORRISON & FOERSTER 

## I DOCKET DEPT. 

## I 

# I July 30,2013 

### 1 For Date(s): 8-19-13 

# ! Brian S. Mitchell



# 9 DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS 10 WASHINGTON, D.C. 11 IntheMatterof: FAA CaseNo. 2011NM020013 12 AlaskaAirlinesInc. ALASKA AIRLINES, INC.'S SECOND 13 INTERROGATORIES ANDREQUESTS FORPRODUCTION TO THEFEDERAL 14 AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 

# 22 23 24 25 26 Please respond within 30 days to the following interrogatories and requests for productioninaccordancewith 14 C.F.R. Part 13, SubpartG. INSTRUCTIONS 1. 

# These discovery requests are continuing in nature, and you are requested to promptly supplement your responses if 

# you learn of new or different information. 2. If

# you are unable to answer any of these discovery requests fully and completely afterexercising due diligencetoobtaintheinformationnecessary to make
a full and complete answer, so state and answer each such discovery request to the

ALASKAAIRLINES, INC.'S SECONDINTERROGATORIES & 

## REQUESTS FORPRODUCTIONTOTHE FAA (No.2011NM020013) - 1 LAW OFFICES OF 

### MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 

## 1000SECOND

## A VENUE, 

## 30THFLOOR SEATTLE,VVASfiTNGTON 

## 98104-1064 TELEPHONE (206) 382-1000 FACSIMILE 

### (206) 386-7343

# 1 

# 2 3 4 

# 5 6 7 

# 8 9 

# 10 11 

# 12 13 

# 14 15 

# 16 17 18 

# 19 20 

# 21 

# 22 23 

# 24 25 26 fullest extentpossible**specifyi~g** 

# the extent of your knowledge and yourinability to
answer the remainder, and setting forth whatever information or knowledge you may have concerning the unanswered portions thereof and efforts you made to obtaintherequestedinformation. 

# 3. Asusedinthese discoveryrequests, the words II

# and" and II

# or" shallnot be interpreted to exclude any information otherwise within the scope of any discoveryrequest. 

# 4. If

# you are withholding any informationbecause of a claim ofprivilege
or protection, please state the nature of the information withheld and identify the privilege claimed with sufficient..§pecificity topern:Ut a full determinationofwhether theclaim ofprivilegeis valid. 5. AT THE TIME OF THE HEARING, ALASKA AIRLINES WILL MOVE TO EXCLUDE THE TESTIMONY OF ANY PERSON NOT IDENTIFIED AND ANY EVIDENCE NOTDISCLOSED INYOURDISCOVERYRESPONSES. DEFINITIONS 

# 1. As used in these discovery requests, 11

# document" means every kind of document and all types of electronically stored information-including writings, drawings, graphs, charts, photographs, sound recordings, images, and other data or data compilations-stored in 

# any medium from which information can be obtained eitherdirectly or, ifnecessary, aftertranslationintoa reasonablyusableform. 

# 2. In 

# reference to a person, "identify" means to state the person's full name,lastknownaddress, andtelephonenumber.

ALASKAAIRLINES, INC.'S SECONDINTERROGATORIES & 

## REQUESTS FORPRODUCTIONTOTHEFAA 

## (No. 2011NM020013)

- 2 LAW 

### OFFICES OF MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 

## 1000SECOND

## A VENUE,

## 30TII FLooR SEATTLE, WASHThiGTON 

## 98104-1064 TELEPHONE (206) 382-1000 FACSIMILE 

### (206) 386-7343

# 1 

# 2 3 4 5 

# 6 

# 7 8. 

# 9 10 

# 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 

# 22 23 24 

# 25 26 3. The "subject aircraft" means the Boeing 737-900/990 aircraft bearing registrationnumberN323AS and operating asAlaska Airlines Flight86 onJanuary 7, 2011 thatisthe subjectofthis civilpenaltyproceeding. INTERROGATORIES INTERROGATORYNO.6: Please describe how the pilots of the subject aircraft might reasonably have been expected to determine during taxi 

# thatfrost had adhered to orwas adhering to thewings. ANSWER:

INTERROGATORYNO.7: Please identify what, 

# if any, changes the FAA intends to make to 14 C.F.R. 

# § 121.629inresponsetothismatteranddescribe suchchanges. ANSWER:

INTERROGATORYNO. 8: Do you contend that the amount of frost, if any, adhering to the wing of the subject aircraft impacted the safety of the flight? If 

# so, please describe specifically and in detail how safety was impacted and identify all experts and all documents supportingthis contention. ANSWER:

ALASKAAIRLINES, INC.'SSECONDINTERROGATORIES & 

## REQUESTSFORPRODUCTIONTOTHEFAA 

## (No. 2011NM020013)

- 3 LAW OFFICES OF MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 

### 1000SECOND

### AVENUE, 

### 301H FLOOR SEATTLE, WASHINGTON 98104-1064 

### TELEPHONE {206) 382-1000 FACSIMILE (206) 386-7343

# 1 

# 2 3 4 

# 5 6 

# 7 

# 8 9 10 11 

# 12 13 

# 14 15 

# 16 17 

# 18 

# 19 20 

# 21 22 23 24 

# 25 26 INTERROGATORYNO.9: 

# Please identify all experts who reviewed or analyzed the photographs taken byJohnElgee and, for each suchexpert, (a) statewhetherheorsheis anemployee of the FAA, (b) 

# state his or her conclusions regarding whether the photographs depict frost, and (c) state his or conclusions regarding when any frost depicted mighthave adhered to thewing. ANSWER:

INTERROGATORYNO. 10: 

# Please identify all aggravating or mitigating circumstances identified by any FAA investigator, inspector, or reviewer involved in this matter, and state whether theFAA adoptedeachsuchaggravatingormitigatingcircumstance. ANSWER:

INTERROGATORYNO. 11: 

# Did the FAA speak to any other passengers traveling on the subject flight about the alleged frost onthe wings ofthe subject aircraft or about the subject flight generally? If

# so, pleaseidentify all suchpassengers and describe theirknowledge. ANSWER:

INTERROGATORYNO. 12: 

# Please identify any otherindividuals who, to the FAA's knowledge, observed

ALASKAAIRLINES, INC.'S SECONDINTERROGATORIES & 

## REQUESTS FORPRODUCTIONTOTHEFAA (No. 2011NM020013)

- 4 LAW OFFICES OF 

### MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 1000SECOND 

### AVENUE, 301H FLOOR SEATILE, WASHINGTON 98104-1064 TELEPHONE (206) 382-1000 FACSIMILE (206) 386-7343

# 1 

# 2 3 4 5 

# 6 7 

# 8 

# 9 10 

# 11 12 13 

# 14 15 

# 16 17 18 

# 19 20 21 

# 22 23 24 

# 25 

# 26 .frost onthesubjectaircraft. ANSWER:

REQUESTS FOR PRODUCTION REQUESTFORPRODUCTIONNO. 6: 

# Please produce all documents in your possession or in the files of FAA Investigator Justin Meisberger regarding this action or the allegations in the complaint, including but not limited to all documents referencing John Elgee, Joel Wade, Walt Bala, the subject aircraft, or the FAA's Notice of Civil Penalty 2011NM020013. 

# RESPONSE:

REQUESTFORPRODUCTIONNO. 7: 

# Please produce all documents in your possession or in the files of FAA Principal Operations Inspector Joel Wade regarding this action or the allegations in the complaint, including but not limited to all 

# documents referencing John Elgee, JustinMeisberger, WaltBala, the subject aircraft, ortheFAA'sNotice ofCivil Penalty 2011NM020013. 

# RESPONSE:

ALASKAAIRLINES,INC.'S SECONDINTERROGATORIES 

## & REQUESTS FORPRODUCTIONTOTHEFAA (No. 2011NM020013)

- 5 LAW OFFICES OF 

### MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 1000SECOND AVENUE, 30mFLOOR SEATTLE, WASHINGTON 98104-1064 TELEPHONE(206) 382-1000 FACSIMILE(206) 386-7343

# l 

# 2 3 4 5 6 

# 7 8 

# 9 10 11 

# 12 13 14 15 16 

# 17 18 

# 19 20 21 22 23 

# 24 

# 25 26 REQUEST FOR PRODUCTIONNO.8: 

# Please produce all documents in your possession or in the files of Aviation Safety Inspector Walt Bala regarding this action or the allegations in the complaint, includingbutnotlimited to all documents referencingJohnElgee, JustinMeisberger, Joel Wade, thesubjectaircraft, ortheFAA'sNoticeofCivil Penalty2011NM020013. RESPONSE:

REQUEST FORPRODUCTIONNO.9: 

# Pleaseproduceelectronic/digital copies ofthephotographsJohnElgee tookof the wing of the subject aircraft. In 

# response to this request, please produce the highestresolutionimages available. RESPONSE:

REQUESTFORPRODUCTIONNO. 10: 

# Pleaseproduce all documents related to anyFAA investigationinwhichJohn Elgeehas served as a percipientwitness. RESPONSE:

ALASKAAIRLINES, INC.'S SECONDINTERROGATORIES & 

## REQUESTS FORPRODUCTIONTOTHEFAA 

## (No. 2011NM020013)

- 6 LAWOFFICES OF MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 

### 1000SECOND

### AVENUE, 

### 3()rnFLOOR SEATI1.E, WASHINGTON 98104-1064 TELEPHONE(206) 382-1000 FACSIMILE(206)386-7343

# 1 

# 2 3 4 

## 5 

# 6 

# 7 8 9 

# 10 11 

# 12 13 14 15 

# 16 17 

# 18 19 

# 20 

# 21 22 23 24 25 

# 26 REQUESTFOR PRODUCTIONNO. 11: 

# Please produce John Elgee's FAA personnel file, including any record of misconduct, reprimand, orotherdisciplinarymeasures. RESPONSE:

REQUESTFORPRODUCTIONNO. 12: 

# Please produce the files of any expert that reviewed or analyzed the photographsJohnElgee tookofthewingofthesubjectaircraft, includinganyreports generatedas aresultofsuchrevieworanalysis. RESPONSE:



# DATED: July 18, 2013. MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 

# Attorneysfor AlaskaAirlines, Inc.

By: 

# l:ft1!tic4

# I

WSBA No. 35798 

# CarynGeraghtyJorgensen WSBA No. 27514

ALASKAAIRLINES, INC.'SSECONDINTERROGATORIES & LAW OFFICES OF 

## REQUESTS FORPRODUCTIONTOTHEFAA

. 

## (No. 2011NM020013)- 7 MILLS MEYERS SWARTIING 

### 1000 SECOND

### AVENUE, 

### 30THFLOOR SEAITLE, WASHINGTON 

### 98104-1064 TELEPHONE (206) 382-1000 FACSIMILE(206) 386-7343

# 1 2 3 

# 4

6 7 

# 8 9 

# 10 

# 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 

# 23 24 25 26 CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE 

# The undersigned certifies under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States that on this date I caused tobe served in

# the mannerindicated a copy ofthewithinandforegoing documentuponthefollowingpersons: RobertSpitzer FAA

# Office ofRegional Counsel 1601 LindAve. SW Renton, WA 98057 DATEDJuly 18,2013. D Viafirstclass mail, postageprepaid D Via facsimile to425-227-1007 

# 12( ViaLegal Messengers 

# rlf' ViaE-mail

ChristineStanley

ALASKA AIRLINES, INC.'SSECONDINTERROGATORIES & 

## REQUESTS FORPRODUCTIONTOTHEFAA LAW OFFICES OF 

### MILLS MEYERS SWARTLING 

## 1000 SECOND

## A VENUE, 

## 30Tii FLOOR SEAITLE, WASHINGTON 98104-1064 

### TELEPHONE (206) 382-1000 FACSIMILE (206) 386-7343 

## (No. 2011NM020013)

- 8