### U.S . DEPARTMEN T O F TRANSPORTATION^^^^^^^ ^ •-•OLK CrOPtRATION S 

### OFFIC E O F HEARING S 

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### PRE-HEARIN GCONFERENC E

I NTH E MATTE ROF : FEDERA L AVIATIO N ADMINISTRATIO N

COMPLAINANT , V . 

### FA ANO . CPlOWPOOl O

FDM S NO . FAA-2010-06 2 BRIANWALLAES A

RESPONDEN T Friday , Marc h2 , 201 2 Vi a Teleconferenc e Th e above-entitle dmatte r cam e o n fo r hearing , pursuan t t o notice , a t 3:0 0 p.m . BEFORE : THE ' HONORABL E RONNI E A . YODER ,

CHIE F ADMINISTRATIV E LAWJUDG E



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## 201 2 

# HEARIN G DOCKE T

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### APPEARANCES : O nBehal f o f th e Respondent : BRIANWALLAESA , pr o s e 1127 2 Wortha mCres t Circl e Manassas , Virgini a 2010 9 (570 ) 778-133 5 O nBehal f o f th e Complainant :
of :

of : JOH NC . STUART , JR. , ESQ . Offic e o f th e Chie f Counse l Enforcemen t Division , AGC-30 0 Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n 80 0 Independenc e Avenu e S W Washington , D.C . 2059 1 (202 ) 267-995 8 JOSEP H A . CONTE , ESQ . Offic e o f th e Chie f Counse l Manager , Specia l Emphasi s Enforcemen t Enforcemen t Division , AGC-30 0 Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n 80 0 Independenc e Avenu e S W Washington , D.C . 2059 1 (202 ) 267-738 1

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### 1

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G- S 2:5 9 p.m . JUDG E YODER : We'r e o nth e record . Thi s i s a pre-hearin g telephon e conferenc e i n Bria nWallaes a . FA ADocke t Numbe r CPlOWPOOl O . FDM S Numbe r FAA-2010-0628 .

An do nth e phon e w e hav e fo r th e FAA , Joh nC . Stuart , Jr . , an dJosep hA . Conte . An dw e hav e th e Responden t appearin g pr o se . W e hav e a cour t reporte r wh o wil l transcrib e th e proceeding .

W e wen t throug hthi s las t time . S o yo u know , Mr . Wallaesa , i f yo u nee da cop y o f th e transcript , yo u wil l nee dt o arrang e tha t wit hth e cour t reporter .

Mr . Stuart , who mshoul dI understan di s goin g t o b e speakin g fo r th e Complainant ?

MR . STUART : I wil l be , You r Honor . JUDG E YODER : Okay . That' s M r Stuart .

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### 1 MR . STUART : That' s correct .

2 JUDG E YODER : Okay . I wan t t o 3 mak e sure . No t tryin g t o kee p Mr . Cont e fro m 4 speakin g bu t generall yw e hav e on e voic e fo r 5 eac hparty . 6 I calle dth e pre-hearin g 7 conferenc e fo r a numbe r o f reason s . W e ha da 8 numbe r o f matter s outstanding , whic hI thin k 9 w e ca naddres s a t thi s point . Ther e wa s a 1 0 motio nfo r hearing . That , o f course , wil l b e 1 1 grante dsubjec t t o findin g a hearin g roo man d 1 2 bein g abl e t o determin e a tim e an dplace . 1 3 A s yo u ma yo r ma yno t know , whe n 1 4 w e lef t th e DO T Headquarter s Buildin g ou r 1 5 hearin g roo mwa s "re-purposed" . S o w e n o 1 6 longe r hav e a hearin g roo mtha t w e ca ncomman d 1 7 th e tim e of . An di t ha s devolve di nt o ou r 1 8 arrangin g alternat e space , whic hha s prove dt o 1 9 b e mor e complicate dtha nw e migh t hav e 2 0 initiall ythought . I t wa s suppose dt o hav e 2 1 bee ntake ncar e o f b yth e peopl e tha t cause d 2 2 u s t o mov e bu t tha t didn' t happen . I nany


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### 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 event , tha t wa s on e motio ntha t wa s pending . Ther e wa s a motio nfo r defaul t an d t o limi t th e hearin g t o sanctions . An dtha t wil l b e denied , base do nth e indicate dfactua l dispute s tha t hav e bee nevidence di nth e previou s pre-hearin g sinc e tha t time .

W e wil l dee mth e complain t amende d t o includ e th e allegatio ntha t Wallaes a faile d t o fi xhi s seatbeIt , sinc e Wallaes a wa s basicall yo nnotic e tha t that' s wha t wa s contemplate dan di t ca nb e inferre dfro mth e specifi c allegatio ni nth e complaint .

Th e Responden t didn' t fil e a specifi c answer . W e wen t throug hth e complain t an daddresse deac hallegatio ni nth e las t pre-hearin g conference , an dw e wil l tak e hi s answe r a s submitte dan dsupplemente di n th e previou s pre-hearin g conferenc e responses .

No wwhe nw e adjourne dlas t time , w e ha daske dCounse l fo r Complainan t t o provid e a transcrip t o f th e crimina l proceeding . An di nsubsequen t submissions , I

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### 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 understan dtha t ther e was , i nfact , n o

transcript . Bu t yo u hav e provide dth e document s whic hwer e i nth e docke t fo r tha t crimina l trial . I s tha t correct , Mr . Stuart ?

MR . STUART : Yes . W e provide dth e document s fro mth e recor d- - an dth e transcript s ar e no t par t o f th e record , an dd o
no t exist . Okay . JUDG E YODER : Yes . I understand .

O nth e othe r hand , on e o f th e thing s tha t w e di dfindi nreviewin g wha t yo u submitte dwa s a norde r bySenio r Judg e Ree d directin g th e Governmen t t o investigat e th e transcrip t o f th e gran djur yproceeding , an d obtai na ful l transcript , an dprovid e th e sam e t o Respondent' s defens e counsel .

Mr . Stuart , d o yo u hav e a cop yo f tha t transcript ?

MR . STUART : I don't . I thin k Mr . Wallaes a include don e pag e o f th e gran djur y transcrip t i non e o f hi s filings . Bu t - -



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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : I notice dthat . An d

tha t wa s m ynex t question . Mr . Wallaes a d o yo u hav e a cop yo f tha t transcript ?

MR . WALLAESA : Tha t i s actuall y submitte dt o th e clerk .

JUDG E YODER : I' msorry ? MR . WALLAESA : Th e ful l documen t

wa s submitte dt o th e hearin g docke t clerk .

JUDG E YODER : You r - - th e transcrip t o f th e gran djur ywa s submitte dt o th e DO T docke t clerk ?

MR . WALLAESA : Th e FA Adocke t 

### clerk . JUDG E YODER : I t wasn' t submitte d t o me . An d- -

MR . WALLAESA : That' s - - JUDG E YODER : An dI jus t hear dMr . Stuar t sa yh e doesn' t hav e it .

MR . WALLAESA : I submitte dth e entir e document .

JUDG E YODER : Well , ca nyo u sen da cop yo f tha t t o m e an dMr . Stuart ? O r what' s

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2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 th e mos t convenien t wa yfo r u s t o obtai nthat ?

We'r e goin g t o nee dtha t befor e th e hearing .

MR . WALLAESA : I ca nsen di t i f it ' s necessary . I t i s submitte dt o th e hearin g docke t clerk .

JUDG E YODER : Wel l - - MR . WALLAESA : W e di dhav e difficulty . I t go t bounce dbac k fro mboth . You r Hono r an dMr . Conte .

I believ e Mr . Stuar t receive dit . An dI submitte dth e whol e entir e - -

JUDG E YODER : Mr . Stuart , ca nyo u readil ychec k whethe r that' s i nth e FA A docket ? MR . STUART : No t readily . You r Honor . But , yo u know , probabl yi nth e next , well , th e nex t coupl e o f hours .

JUDG E YODER : Well , let' s pu t i t thi s way . I f it' s i nth e docket , woul dyo u provid e m e wit ha cop yo f it ? An do f course , yo u ca nhav e a cop yyourself . I f it' s no t i n th e docket , woul dyo u undertak e t o communicat e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 tha t fac t t o Mr . Wallaes a - - MR . WALLAESA : Wallaesa , You r

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Honor . JUDG E YODER : - - an darrang e it s

submissio nto>bot hyo u an dme ?

MR . STUART : Yes , Judge . JUDG E YODER : Obviously , th e peopl e wh o appeare di ntha t gran djur yar e goin g t o be , som e o f the manyway , ar e goin g t o b e witnesse s i nthi s cas e i f i t goe s t o hearing . An dthere' s alread yquestion s raise da s t o whethe r thei r testimon yther e support s o r doesn' t suppor t th e complain t o r th e defense .

S o i f we'r e goin g t o - - Mr . Wallaesa , i f yo u hav e t o provid e tha t ho wlon g wil l i t tak e yo u t o ge t i t copie dan dge t i t t o us ? D o yo u kno who wlon g i t is ?

MR . WALLAESA : What , th e whol e document ? O r wha t d o yo u mean ?

JUDG E YODER : Gran dJury , th e

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 transcrip t o f th e gran djur yproceeding . MR . WALLAESA : I t - - I hav e i t here . It' s jus t unde r myothe r stuff . I t wouldn' t tak e m e tha t lon g t o ge t t o yo u i f yo u neede dit .

It' s a ver ythick , lik e a multi

pag e document . I thin k it' s abou t 2 0 o r 3 0 pages . JUDG E YODER : Okay . An dthe ni f yo u coul dge t tha t t o u s withi na week , coul d yo u d o that ?

MR . WALLAESA : I f that' s wha t yo u request . JUDG E YODER : Well , I' mjus t tryin g t o fin dou t whe nyo u ca nd o it . Ca n yo u d o i t withi na wee k o r d o yo u nee dmor e tim e tha nthat ?

MR . WALLAESA : Fro mwha t -- a wee k i s what ? What' s today ? Th e - -

JUDG E YODER : Tha t woul db e th e 9th . Marc h9 . An dtha t woul db e a receive d date . S o i t woul dnee dt o g o UP S o r FedE xs o

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i t actuall yget s here .

Yo u can' t mai l thing s t o th e Government . O r - -

MR . WALLAESA : I understan dthat . JUDG E YODER ; - - the ywin dup , the ywin du p goin g t o Wes t Virgini a an dbein g irradiated , an dfuse dtogether , an ddelaye da mont ho r so .

MR . WALLAESA : I use d- - I sen t i t FedEx . Bu t yes , I mean , I submitte di t wit h th e hearin g docke t clerk . It' s i nth e documen t o f th e docke t clerk .

JUDG E YODER : Well , i f it' s i nth e docket , yo u ca ncoordinat e tha t wit hMr . Stuart . H e ca nchec k whethe r it' s there .

MR . WALLAESA : Well , actually , coul dh e chec k an dsee , an di f h e ca nge t a cop yther e first ?

JUDG E YODER : Certainly . That' s wha t I jus t said . S o h e wil l chec k that . An d the nh e wil l ge t bac k t o yo u i f it' s no t there , an dyo u folk s ca narrang e it s



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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 transmissio nt o hi man dme . Okay ? MR . WALLAESA : Al l right . JUDG E YODER : An dwe'l l tr yt o ge t tha t don e b yMarc h9 . Okay . S o you'l l sen d i t FedEx . Okay .

MR . WALLAESA : Le t m e jus t - - well , ca nI hav e unti l th e nex t week ? I s tha t possible ?

Marc h16 ? JUDG E YODER : Sure . Til l when ?

MR . WALLAESA : That' s fin e . That' s mor e tha nenough .

JUDG E YODER : Fine . We'1 1 mak e tha t Marc h- -

MR . WALLAESA : B yth e 15th . JUDG E YODER : 15 ? MR . WALLAESA : Yes . Befor e th e 15th . I' m

sorry . I' mtryin g t o b e - - JUDG E YODER : Marc h15 ? I jus t

wan t a dat e tha t yo u ca nliv e wit han dwil l abid e by . Yo u ca nd o i t b yth e 15th ?

MR . WALLAESA : That' s fine .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : That' s Thursday . MR . WALLAESA : Yes . JUDG E YODER : Okay . No wth e nex t issu e I neede dt o dea l wit hwa s whethe r yo u inten dt o rais e abilit yt o pa ya s a nissu e i n thi s proceeding .

Now , i non e o f you r submission s yo u suggeste dtha t Complainant' s effort s t o ge t informatio no nyou r financia l situatio n
wa s "briber yo r extortion" .

An dI jus t wan t t o mak e sur e yo u understan dwha t abilit yt o pa yha s t o d o wit h thi s case . I f i nfac t - -

MR . WALLAESA : We i 1 , I' mjus t sayin g - - I' mjus t sayin g tha t th e wa yth e methodolog yende du p - - I have , I ca nsubmi t tha t information . I nfact , I spok e t o Mr . Stuar t abou t tha t severa l times . I f tha t i s th e request , I wil l submi t th e information . An dwhateve r yo u need , that' s wha t I'l l do .

JUDG E YODER : Well , wha t w e nee d depend s o nwha t yo u wan t t o d o wit hrespec t t o

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### 1 4

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 th e case. I f you'r e goin g t o rais e th e issu e

o f abilit yt o pay , the nit' s incumben t upo n yo u t o submi t financia l dat a s o you r abilit y t o pa yca nb e assessed .

An dth e reaso ntha t i s considere d i s th e statut e require s tha t w e conside r abilit yt o pa yi nfixin g a leve l o f penalt y tha t i s consisten t wit hyou r financia l
resources . An di f th e amoun t o f th e penalt y i s beyon dyou r financia l resource s the ni t ha s t o b e lower .

Th e ide a o f th e penalt yi s t o mak e i t significant , consisten t wit hyou r abilit y t o pa yan dth e natur e o f th e violation , i f on e i s found . S o yo u hav e a righ t t o requir e th e abilit yt o pa yb e considered . Bu t i f yo u don' t wan t i t t o b e considere dthe ni t won' t be . 

### Bu t

Ishoul dwar nyo utha t on eo f

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 th e ke yfactor s tha t th e Administrato r ha s

looke da t i npreviou s case s i nfixin g a leve l
o f civi l penalt yi s whethe r th e abilit yt o pa y wa s raise dan dth e financia l resource s o f th e Responden t wer e demonstrate di nth e case .

D o yo u understan dwha t I' msaying ? MR . WALLAESA : Ye s sir . JUDG E YODER : Okay . MR . WALLAESA : I f yo u understan d

m yposition , I wil l wit ha - - I wa s positionin g mysel f a s o nth e cas e t o b e hear d
an dthe nth e abilit yt o pa yt o b e considere d secondly . I s tha t understandable ?

JUDG E YODER : I didn' t kno wthat' s wha t yo u wer e doin g bu t that' s no t th e wa yth e case s ar e heard . W e hav e o nhearin g an dtha t hearin g determine s whethe r there' s a violation , an di f so , wha t th e leve l o f penalt yshoul dbe .

S o it ' s incumben t upo nyo u t o provid e tha t informatio ns o tha t th e abilit y t o pa yca nb e considere di f yo u wan t i t t o b e

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### 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 considered . I hav e n o ide a wha t you r financia l

resource s are . I mean , I kno wtha t yo u ha d publi c counse l i nyou r crimina l case . Bu t beyon dthat , I don' t reall ykno wanythin g abou t you r financia l resources . An dit' s u p t o yo u t o prov e wha t you r financia l resource s are . Normally , wha t the y- - wha t th e Complainan t ask s fo r i s complianc e with , I think , a Departmen t o f Justic e for mwhic h require s a listin g o f you r asset s an d liabilities , you r incom e an dexpenses , an d you r ta xreturn s fo r th e las t severa l years . Bu t that' s somethin g yo u sor t ou t wit hMr . Stuar t afte r w e ge t of f th e phone .

Bu t it' s important , fro myou r perspective , tha t yo u provid e tha t information , i f indee dyo u wan t t o tr yt o ge t
a propose dpenalt ylowered , consisten t wit h you r abilit yt o pay . Okay ?

MR . WALLAESA : Okay .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : Okay . S o i s tha t

somethin g yo u coul dals o - - whe nd o yo u thin k yo u coul dpu t tha t informatio ntogether ?

Le t m e as k first , Mr . Stuart , di d yo u sen dhi ma reques t fo r specifi c information ?

MR . STUART : I nregard s t o th e abilit yt o pay ?

JUDG E YODER : Ye s sir . MR . STUART : No , Judge . I didn' t mak e i t tha t far . Mr . Wallaes a indicate dtha t h e wa s no t willin g t o provid e thos e documents .

JUDG E YODER : Yes . Okay . Bu t yo u ca nsen dhi mtoday , o r I don' t kno wca nyo u tel l hi mrigh t no wwha t yo u need ?

MR . STUART : It' s everythin g tha t yo u jus t said . Judge .

JUDG E YODER : Okay . MR . WALLAESA : I s ther e a for mo r a procedur e o r somethin g tha t I coul dfollo w s o I coul dmak e sur e it' s a onc e an ddon e thin g an dI' m

no t playin g ta g bac k an dforth ?

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : Well , i s ther e a

Justic e Departmen t for mtha t yo u ca nsen dhim , Mr . Stuart ? O r i s ther e a for mtha t yo u us e tha t yo u sen do r what ?

M R. STUAR T : Yes , Judg e . We i 1 fin dtha t an dsen di t t o him .

JUDG E YODER : Okay . S o yo u ca n ge t tha t t o him . D o yo u hav e a fax , Mr . Wallaesa ? MR . WALLAESA : I d o not .

email ? JUDG E YODER : D o yo u hav e a n

MR . WALLAESA : Yes , I do . JUDG E YODER : S o coul dyo u emai l tha t t o him , Mr . Stuart ?

MR . STUART : Sure . What' s th e emai l address ?

MR . WALLAESA : It' s B , m ylas t

name , a t hotmail.com .

JUDG E YODER : B a s i nboy ? MR . WALLAESA : Yes . M yfirs t initial , las t name , a t hotmail. com .

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : Hotmail.com . Okay .

S o the yca n- - the yshoul db e abl e t o ge t tha t

ou t t o yo u today .

An dbasicall ywha t it' s goin g to
as k yo u fo r i s wha t I jus t said . You r income , you r expenses , you r assets , you r liabilities .

D o yo u ow na house ? MR . WALLAESA : Yes , I gues s yo u
ca nsa ythat .

JUDG E YODER : Well , I can' t sa y it , bu t th e questio nis , ca nyo u sa yit ? I

mean , d o yo u - - i s ther e a mortgag e o nit ?

MR . WALLAESA : Yes . JUDG E YODER : S o wha t yo u woul dd o i s you' dindicat e th e house , it s value , an d th e amoun t o f th e mortgage .

D o yo u hav e cars ? MR . WALLAESA : I hav e a car , yes . JUDG E YODER : Okay . S o yo u woul d lis t th e ca r an dit s fai r marke t value . An d

an ythin g tha t yo u ow e o nit .

An dthen , I don' t kno wwhethe r yo u

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 hav e othe r asset s o r not , bu t basicall yyou' d

indicat e thos e asset s an dthe nyo u woul d indicat e th e amoun t o f you r liabilities .

I f you ' v e alread ypu t dow nwha t yo u ow e t o th e mortgag e an dwha t yo u ow e o n th e car , i t woul db e a questio no f wha t othe r debt s yo u migh t have . An dtha t woul db e you r asset s an dliabilities .

An dthe nyo u woul dwan t t o provid e

- - wha t d o yo u as k fo r Mr . Stuart , tw o year s o f ta xreturns ?

MR . STUART : Thre e years . Fiv e , i f possible .

JUDG E YODER : S o thre e year s o f ta xreturns . I don' t thin k I've eve r see nany on esubmi t fiv e years , Mr . Stuart . Bu t let' s assum e thre e year s o f ta xreturns .

An dtha t woul dpresumabl yno t includ e thi s yea r unles s you'r e somebod ywh o reall ygoe s fas t an dget s hi s ta xreturn s don e . Hav e yo u don e you r ta xreturn ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . WALLAESA : No . I shoul dhav e

don e i t i nFebruary .

JUDG E YODER : Shouldn' t w e all . Okay . S o i t wil l b e th e thre e years , 2010 , 2009 , an d2008 . Okay ?

I can' t hea r you . MR . WALLAESA : Al l right . JUDG E YODER : Okay . MR . WALLAESA : Okay . JUDG E YODER : Al l right . S o tha t woul dtak e car e o f that .

An dwhe nd o yo u thin k yo u coul dd o tha t i f yo u star t o ni t now ? Ho wlon g vjould tha t take ? MR . WALLAESA : I hav e n o idea . I mean , I jus t nee dt o se e wha t th e for m says . An dwha t informatio nI nee dt o get .

Th e ta xreturn s shouldn' t b e tha t easy . Bu t th e res t o f i t - -

JUDG E YODER : Ye s MR . WALLAESA : els e b e o n- ~ whateve r ma y

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : Right . Okay . S o

we'l l se t Marc h1 5 fo r tha t dat e a s well ?

MR . WALLAESA : Okay . JUDG E YODER : Okay . Al l right . MR . WALLAESA : I f I wan t tha t option , right ?

JUDG E YODER : Yes , i f yo u wan t u s t o conside r you r abilit yt o pa yi nevaluatin g th e leve l o f penalty . The ywan t th e penalt y t o b e $5,500 .

An don e o f th e histori c bes t argument s tha t respondent s hav e mad e i n gettin g th e requeste dpenalt ylowere di s t o sho wtha t i t woul dplac e a nundu e financia l burde no nthem .

D o yo u se e wha t I' msaying ? MR . WALLAESA : Yes . JUDG E YODER : An ds o that' s somethin g tha t yo u woul dloo k at . An dthe n afte r yo u giv e tha t t o Mr . Stuar t I woul dwan t yo u folk s t o tal k agai nabou t th e possibilit y o f gettin g thi s cas e settled . Because , Mr .



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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Stuart , i f h e get s that , wil l hav e t o loo k a t

it . An dh e wil l hav e t o re-asses s th e penalt y tha t he' s askin g for .

Now , tha t doesn' t mea nh e wil l necessaril ylowe r it . I t depend s o nwha t yo u sho whi mi nterm s o f financia l circumstances .

Bu t i f yo u sho whi mtha t you r financia l circumstance s can' t suppor t you r paymen t o f a $5500.0 0 penalt ythe nhe' s oblige dbyla wt o lowe r th e amoun t tha t h e ask s for . Becaus e h e ha s t o conside r you r abilit yt o pa yi nfixin g th e amoun t tha t h e ask s for . No wwha t h e ask s fo r i s no t wha t th e penalt yis . I determin e wha t th e penalt y is . Bu t h e ha s t o determin e wha t he' s goin g t o as k for . D o yo u understan dwha t I' msaying ?

MR . WALLAESA : I understan dwha t you'r e saying .

JUDG E YODER : Okay . Al l right . MR . WALLAESA : Le t m e as k yo u a

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 questio no ntha t - - JUDG E YODER : Ye s sir . Ye s sir . MR . WALLAESA : I f I wa s no t t o submi t th e abilit yt o pay , doe s tha t mea nth e penalt yca nb e anything ?

JUDG E YODER : Well , that' s anothe r thin g I wante dt o ge t to , becaus e yo u mentione di non e o f you r submission s tha t yo u though t tha t b yaddin g th e othe r tw o violation s i t woul dmak e you r potentia l exposur e $33,000.0 0 .

Th e fac t i s - - MR . WALLAESA : Tha t isn' t correct . JUDG E YODER : No , it' s not . Th e fac t i s tha t th e penalt ycanno t b e mor e tha nth e amoun t they'v e aske dfo r i nth e complaint . S o th e penalt ycanno t b e mor e tha n $5500.00 . Period . N o matte r what .

MR . WALLAESA : Okay . JUDG E YODER : Okay . MR . WALLAESA : No , I ca n- - th e poin t I mad e ou t i s actuall ya nerror . I nth e



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### 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 l a 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Cod e o f Federa l Regulation s ther e i s a maximu m

o f $10,000.00 .

JUDG E YODER : Well , actually , tha t i s - - tha t i s amende dbya subsequen t statut e whic hraise di t t o 11 . An dthat' s $11,00 0 pe r violation . An dthe ystarte dou t wit hth e on e violatio na t $5500.00 . The yadde dtw o mor e violation s t o it , a s I understan dit . Bu t the ydidn' t chang e th e requeste dpenalty .

S o correc t m e i f I' mwrong , Mr . Stuart , bu t th e penalt ytha t you'v e aske dfo r i s base dtotall yo nth e 121.58 0 violation . I s tha t correct ?

MR . STUART : It' s correc t tha t th e $550 0 wa s initiall ybase do nonl yth e 121.58 0 violatio ni nth e notice .

JUDG E YODER : Yes . MR . STUART : Yes . Tha t i s correct . That' s wha t th e origina l notic e said . JUDG EYODER : Ikne w that
. Bu t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 that' s no t wha t I aske dyou . Wha t I aske dyo u a t th e las t pre hearin g conferenc e wa s t o submi t a statemen t o f you r basi s fo r th e penalty . An di ntha t memorandu mtha t yo u submitted , yo u didn' t attribut e anypar t o f th e penalt yt o th e othe r violations . Isn' t tha t correct ? Yo u didn' t giv e m e anypenalt yo f leve l fo r eithe r o f th e othe r tw o violations .

MR . STUART : Th e tota l amoun t i s $5500 , Judge .

JUDG E YODER : I kno wwha t th e tota l amoun t is , Mr . Stuart . Ar e w e no t communicating ?

Wha t I directe dyo u t o d o wa s t o fil e a memorandu mindicatin g th e basi s upo n whic hyo u wer e proposin g t o se t a penalt yo f $5500 . An dwha t yo u answere dwa s that , th e $550 0 penalt yi s base dsolel yo nth e 121.58 0 violation . That' s wha t you r memorandu msays .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 MR . STUART : That ' s correct . An d

th e penalt ywa s no t increase da s a resul t o f addin g th e tw o othe r violations . I t staye d- - i t remaine d$5500 .

JUDG E YODER : Well , I kno wthat . Bu t that' s no t wha t I' msaying .

MR . STUART : S o yes , i nth e notic e

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : That' s no t wha t yo u

sai di nyou r memorandum .

Wha t yo u sai dwas , tha t th e $550 0 penalt yi s base dsolel yo nth e 58 0 violation .

MR . STUART : That' s wha t wen t ou t i nth e origina l notice , yes .

JUDG E YODER : Mr . Stuart , ar e w e parsin g words ? Whe n- - i f thi s goe s t o hearing , you'r e goin g t o hav e t o prov e tha t thi s penalt yleve l shoul db e awarded .

An da s I tol dyo u las t time , tha t

mean s you'r e goin g t o hav e t o prov e wha t par t

o f th e penalt yi s attributabl e t o an yo f thes e particula r violations .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 

### 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 That ' s wha t I directe dyo u t o

file. Yo u file da memorandum . Yo u sai dth e penalt yi s base dsolel yo n580 .

MR . STUART : That , an d o nPag e 6 , I wen t i nt o th e sanctio namoun t fo r violation s o f 121.317(f ) an d 121.317(k) . An d I di d a nanalysi s ther e base do ncas e law .

JUDG E YODER : Le t m e catc hu p wit h you . Okay . Ca nyo u tel l m e the nwher e i nyou r memorandu myo u attribut e som e portio no f thi s penalt yo r a penalt yamoun t t o eithe r o f th e 

### othe r two violations ?

MR . STUART : I didn ' t d o tha t specifically . You r Honor .

JUDG E YODER : That' s wha t I jus t said . An d yo u said , no , yo u discusse di t i n you r memorandum .

MR . STUART : I thin k th e Government' s positio nwoul db e tha t th e $550 0 woul db e appropriat e fo r th e thre e violation s together .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : I' msur e tha t ma yb e

you r position . Bu t that' s no t wha t yo u sai d i nyou r memorandum .

I f you'r e goin g t o chang e you r positio nthe nyo u nee dt o fil e it . Becaus e wha t you'v e tol dm e i s tha t th e $550 0 i s base d solel yo nth e 58 0 violation .

I f you'r e goin g t o tr yt o suppor t i t wit hth e othe r tw o violations , yo u go t t o tel l m e ho wmuc ho f i t i s attributabl e t o thos e violations .

Yo u don' t jus t thro wa figur e ou t

an dsay , "Well , I thin k that' s a nic e figure. " Yo u go t t o relat e th e figur e t o th e violations . MR . STUART : Right . Judge , ther e
ar e aggravatin g circumstance s tha t justif yth e highe r amount .

JUDG E YODER : I' mno t askin g whethe r i t shoul db e highe r o r lower . I' m tellin g yo u i t ha s t o b e specifi c t o a violation .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . CONTE : You r Honor , thi s i s

Jo e Conte . Ma yI spea k o r d o yo u wan t t o restric t thi s t o - -

JUDG E YODER : No , yo u g o ahead . MR . CONTE : Than k you . Judge . JUDG E YODER : I f yo u coul dhelp , I' dappreciat e it .

MR . CONTE ; Yes . I' mlookin g a t Page s 6 , 7 , an d8 o f th e - - le t m e ge t h e righ t dat e here , Novembe r 15th , 201 1 submissio nb yth e Complainant .

JUDG E YODER : Ye s sir . I hav e tha t i nfron t o f me .

MR . CONTE : Th e memorandu mo n sanctions . JUDG E YODER : Yes .

M R. CONTE : An d th e Complainant ' s positio ni s this . You r Honor :

w e understan dwha t you'r e sayin g abou t th e 121.58 0 charge .

Th e - - wha t we'r e saying , o r wha t we'r e tryin g t o sa yi nthi s documen t is , th e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Othe r tw o - - th e othe r tw o allege dviolations ,

121.317{k ) an d121.317(f ) - -

JUDG E YODER : Yes . MR . CONTE : --w e discus s i nther e i f yo u wer e charge dwit ha 31 7 (k ) violatio no r a 317(f ) violatio nthi s i s wha t FA Aorde r 2150.3(b ) appendix , yo u know , whatever , wha t page , wha t subparagraph , wha t th e rang e woul d be . An dwha t w e - -

JUDG E YODER : I' msorry . Wher e doe s i t sa ywha t th e rang e woul dbe ?

MR . CONTE : Fo r instance . You r Honor , o nPag e 6 - -

JUDG E YODER : Yes . MR . CONTE : abou t three

quarter s o f th e wa ydown .

JUDG E YODER : Ye s sir . MR . CONTE : Okay . S o w e say , "Fo r individual s no t servin g i nth e capacit yo f a n airma nth e rang e i s $55 0 t o $4,399. "

JUDG E YODER : Ye s sir .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR. CONTE : An dthat ' s i n

referenc e t o th e 317(f ) violation .

JUDG E YODER : Ye s sir . MR . CONTE : An dthe n- - JUDG E YODER : An ds o wher e d o yo u saythe nho wmuc ho f thi s propose dpenalt yi s attributabl e t o tha t violation ?

MR . CONTE : Wha t we'r e arguing . Judge , wha t we'r e tryin g - - wha t we'r e - - ou r positio ni s tha t thes e tw o - - tha t thes e tw o violations , tha t th e $550 0 tota l i nregar dt o 121.58 0 charge , tha t th e highe r amoun t i s warrante dbecaus e thes e tw o aspect s o f th e case , th e 317(f ) aspec t an dth e 31 7 (k ) aspec t

MR . CONTE : Excus e me ? JUDG E YODER : I don' t know . 1 1 wasn' t here .

MR . CONTE : Okay . Th e 317(f ) an d th e 317(k ) aspec t ar e aggravatin g circumstances . S o tha t o nth e 121.58 0 charg e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 5 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E YODER : Yes . MR . CONTE : - - i f you , You r Honor , fin dtha t we'v e prove dbot ho f thos e additiona l charges , tha t i nregar dt o sanctio n amount , i f yo u wer e jus t lookin g a t th e 580 , an dthinking , "Well , ge e whiz , 580 , wh ydon' t I g o wit h- - I ca ng o i nth e mid-range, " wha t

we ' r e sayin g her e is , thes e tw o additiona l aspect s o f th e case , 31 7 (k ) an d317(f ) warran t somethin g i nth e highe r rang e o f $5500 .

JUDG E YODER : Excep t tha t neithe r
o f thos e wa s i nth e complain t whe nyo u file d i t initiall ya t a leve l o f $5500 .

MR . CONT E I Tha t - - that ' s absolutel ycorrect . An dwhe nMr . Canneel i ha dth e cas e befor e h e lef t th e FAA , an dh e adde dth e tw o additiona l charges , it' s tru e a s
we , a s reflecte di nthi s teleconference , w e di dno t bum p u p th e tota l amount .

Th e 317(k ) an dth e 317(f ) violation s I thin k wer e pu t i nther e becaus e

w e thin k w e ca nprov e h e violate dthos e

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 sections . An dw e thin k i nterm s o f sanctio n

amount , i f w e ge t t o tha t par t o f th e case , yo u know , ho wmuch , an dI don' t kno wi f Mr . Wallaes a wil l pu t i nanythin g abou t abilit yo r inabilit yt o pay , bu t onc e w e ge t t o th e sanctio npar t o f th e case , assumin g w e win , o n thes e thre e charges , we' dargue , an dthat' s wha t we'r e arguin g her e a t Page s 6 , 7 , an d8
o f thi s document , tha t th e additiona l charge s ar e aggravatin g circumstance s tha t warran t keepin g i t a t $550 0 o r clos e t o $5500 . That' s ou r position .

JUDG E YODER : I understan dthat , Mr . Conte . Th e proble mwit htha t is , yo u submitte da complain t whic hask s fo r $5 5 0 0 base do n58 0 only . Yo u hav e subsequentl y file da documen t tha t say s tha t th e $550 0 i s base donl yo n580 . Yo u file da documen t whic h say s tha t penaltie s i nothe r case s fo r violation s o f (f ) an d(k ) unde r 3153(b ) woul d fal l i na certai nrange .

Bu t i t - - we'r e talkin g abou t thi s

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1 specifi c case . 2 MR . CONTE : An dI thin k - - 3 JUDG E YODER : Thi s specifi c case , 4 th e reques t ha s no t bee nmad e fo r a penalt y 5 base do nthos e withi nanyrang e a t all . 6 MR . CONTE : I think , You r Honor , 7 w e trie dt o expres s i t o nPag e 8 o f th e 8 documen t an dth e conclusion , wher e we'r e 9 tryin g t o sumu p everythin g abou t ou r analysi s 1 0 an di nth e mem o o nsanction , where , yes , yo u 1 1 ar e righ t . I nth e firs t sentenc e i nth e 1 2 conclusion , w e sai dth e propose dsanctio n 1 3 originall yrelate dbac k t o th e 580 , th e 1 4 original 58 0 charge . An dthe nw e - - page s 6 1 5 an d7 reflec t ou r analysi s o f 317(f ) an d(k ) . 1 6 An dthe ni nth e las t sentence , w e say , 1 7 "However , i nvie wo f th e foregoin g discussio n 1 8 o f complainan t sanctio nguidance , DO T an dFA A 1 9 cas e la wsanctio namoun t relate dt o th e 2 0 violation s o f 317(f) , 317(k) , an d58 0 2 1 considere d- - an dconsiderin g th e totalit yo f 2 2 th e circumstance s o f th e case , th e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Complainant' s $555 0 civi l penalty , th e

propose dcivi l penalt yamount , i s reasonabl e an djustified. "

That' s wha t we'r e - - JUDG E YODER : I understand . I understan dthat . Di dyo u discus s - - yes , yo u discusse dth e Flore s case ?

MR . CONTE : Yes , I thin k w e did . MR . STUART : Yes . JUDG E YODER : Tha t wa s a $330 0 penalty . MR . CONTE : Right .

MR . STUART : Yes . JUDG E YODER : An dyo u mentio ntha t som e o f thes e case s wer e jus t decision s by ALJ s s o the yaren' t bindin g precedents . An d I understan dwha t yo u mea nbythat . Bu t I thin k yo u shoul dno t assum e tha t decision s by othe r ALJ s whic hwin dup bein g final , wit h respec t t o th e Respondent , ar ^ no t relevan t t o th e leve l o f penalt yi nsubsequen t cases .

Th e fac t i s we'r e tryin g t o appl y

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1 equa l justic e here . An dal l o f th e 2 precedents , whethe r yo u regar dthe ma s bindin g 3 o r not , ar e relevan t t o tha t consideration . 4 MR . CONTE : An dJudge , I , 5 actually , i nmos t respects , w e - - actually , I 6 totall yagre e wit htha t analysis . 7 An dI thin k tha t i t reflect s --i n 8 ou r ow nmemorandum , w e di dge t i nt o th e som e 9 o f th e underlyin g fact s i nthos e AL J 1 0 decisions , an dargue deithe r wh yth e cas e wa s 1 1 inapposit e t o th e presen t cas e o r w e argue d 1 2 ho wther e wer e similaritie s i nthos e othe r AL J 1 3 decisions , factua l similaritie s warrantin g th e 1 4 highe r amount . 1 5 S o whil e it' s tru e ou r rule s sa y 1 6 tha t it' s th e Administrator ' s decisio ntha t 1 7 ha s precedentia l valu e tha t ca nb e cite di n 1 8 futur e cases , w e di dg o beyon djus t tha t - - 1 9 JUDG E YODER : I' msorry . Excus e 2 0 me . Whe nyo u say , thos e ar e wha t hav e 2 1 precedentia l value , I thin k yo u overstep . 2 2 Thos e ar e wha t ar e bindin g precedents . Tha t

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### 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 doe s no t mea ntha t othe r case s d o no t hav e

precedentia l value .

MR . CONTE : I gues s - - I' mno t disagreein g wit hyo u Judge . I gues s it' s jus t

- - you'r e right .

Look , i f a a nattorne ywrot e a terrifi c la wrevie warticle , som e o f u s migh t say , "Well , th e analysi s i nther e i s - - " i n fac t everybod ymigh t agre e th e analysi s i na la wrevie warticl e o r i na judge' s initia l decisio ni s a terrifi c analysis , it' s a reasonabl e wa yo f lookin g a t - -

JUDG E YODER : Mr . Conte , yo u wil l
neve r fin dm e citin g a la wrevie warticl e a s precedent . Yo u will , however , fin dm e citin g decision s byadministrativ e la wjudge s a s precedent . An dI thin k yo u misunderstan dth e situatio ni f yo u sugges t tha t decision s bya n administrativ e la wjudg e ar e analogou s t o la w revie warticles .

MR . CONTE : No , You r Honor . An d

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 s o i n- - I agre e wit hyou . An di nfact , ou r

documents , ou r memorandu mo nsanction s fro m las t November , w e actuall ydi dge t i nt o a discussio no f th e fact s i nthos e othe r AL J decisions . JUDG E YODER : I' mawar e o f that . I' mjus t tryin g t o aler t yo u folks , bot h sides , t o th e framewor k o f th e cas e tha t i s bein g presente dhere . An dth e framewor k i s th e framework , a s I se e it , base do nwha t you'v e submitted . An dit' s importan t fo r yo u t o understan dwha t tha t framewor k i s i n decidin g wha t you ' r e goin g t o d o wit hthi s case . Okay ?

MR . CONTE : Yes , Judge . MR . STUART : Yes . JUDG E YODER : Al l right . Thanks . Let' s see . You'v e referre dt o aggravatin g circumstance s a numbe r o f time s i n connectio nwit hyou r discussio no f th e penalty . An dthere' s bee ndiscussio no f aggravatin g circumstance s i nth e previou s pre -

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 hearin g conference . T o th e exten t tha t thos e aggravatin g circumstance s ar e allege di nth e complaint , the nthe yshoul db e considered . T o th e exten t tha t the yar e no t allege di nth e complaint , I thin k yo u hav e a grea t dea l o f difficult ygettin g the mconsidered .

Yo u nee dt o understan dthat . I f you'r e goin g t o rel yo naggravatin g circumstances , yo u nee dt o alleg e th e facts , no t jus t th e conclusions , i nth e complain t s o tha t the'Responden t i s pu t o nnotic e o f wha t i t i s you'r e proposin g t o prove .

D o yo u understan dwha t I' msaying ?

An d- - yes .

MR . CONTE : Ye s sir . You r Honor .

JUDG E YODER : Okay . MR . CONTE : W e do . JUDG E YODER : That' s al l - - that' s al l I wan t t o do . I wan t t o mak e sur e yo u understand . Al l right .

Now , Mr . Wallaesa , yo u di drais e

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 a nissu e a s t o whethe r th e penalt ylevel s se t

fort hi nth e complain t ar e supporte db yth e statut e an dregulation s a s yo u looke da t them .

It ' s alway s difficul t fo r a layperso nt o tr yt o pars e ou t wha t statute s an dregulation s say . I t i s ofte ndifficul t fo r attorney s t o pars e ou t wha t regulation s an dstatue s say .

I shoul dle t yo u know , however , tha t penaltie s a t th e $11,00 0 leve l fo r th e type s o f violation s here , hav e been , a t bes t -

- tha t is , usin g tha t a s th e maximu mfo r somethin g lik e 1 8 year s now .

An dwhil e yo u sai dth e section s yo u looke da t don' t see mt o relat e t o individuals , i f yo u loo k a t 46301(a ) (5 ) , i t specificall ysay s that , "Penaltie s applicabl e t o individual s an dsmal l busines s concerns. " An dthe ni n(a ) i t says , "A nindividua l i s liabl e t o th e Governmen t fo r a civi l penalt y o f no t mor e tha n$10,000, " no wupgrade dt o $11,000 .

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1 MR . WALLAESA : I understand . I 2 understan dit . You r Honor . 3 Bu t mypositio ni s tha t thos e 4 individual s ar e peopl e tha t woul db e employe d 5 byth e FAA , th e airlines , th e airport s - - 6 JUDG E YODER : Well , excep t - - 7 MR . CONTE : - - an dth e passenge r 8 airlines , an ds o forth , an dno t necessaril y 9 th e passengers . 1 0 JUDG E YODER : I understan dthat' s 1 1 you r position , Mr . Wallaesa , bu t I' mtryin g t o 1 2 aler t yo u o f th e fac t tha t tha t positio ni s 1 3 wrong . An dit' s no t goin g t o hel p you . Okay ? 1 4 Becaus e th e section , amon g othe r 1 5 things , refer s t o Chapte r 4 9 a s on e o f th e 1 6 possibl e violation s whic hdirect s th e 1 7 Undersecretar yt o prescrib e regulation s t o 1 8 protec t passenger s an dpropert yo na naircraf t 1 9 operatin g i ntransportation . 2 0 An dthe nthere' s als o a - - i t als o 2 1 refer s t o a regulatio nprescribe dunde r any 2 2 provisio no f thi s section .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I - - it' s importan t fo r yo u t o

understan dwha t i s a t issu e an dwha t i s no t a t issu e here .

Mr . Stuart , o r eve nMr . Conte , yo u wan t t o addres s tha t contention ?

MR . CONTE : You r Honor , yo u --i n ou r view , yo u correctl ystate dwha t th e la w is . Apassenge r o n- - a passenge r i s capture d unde r th e statute . Apassenge r ca nb e sanctione dfo r a civi l penalt yfo r conduc t happenin g i n- -

JUDG E YODER : I jus t don ' t wan t yo u t o misperceiv e wha t th e situatio nis , Mr . Wallaesa . MR . WALLAESA : I don' t believ e it' s misperceived . I' mjus t bringin g u p th e issue s a s I se e them . Howeve r - -

JUDG E YODER : Al l right . That' s fine. Yo u ca nbrin g up an yissu e yo u want , bu t relyin g o nissue s tha t hav e n o basi s i n la wi s no t goin g t o serv e yo u muc hpurpose . Okay ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . WALLAESA : I d o believ e i t ha s

a basi s i nlaw , t o b e hones t wit hyou . You r Honor . I believ e tha t th e document s wer e - - th e la wwa s se t u p i nmin dwit hairports , airline s - - JUDG E YODER : Eve nthoug h decision s - -

MR . WALLAESA : - - th e passenger s actually . I thin k th e passenger s ar e a n afterthought . That' s wh yI cite dU.S . 41706 , 4200 3 an d4630 1 a s lik e stuc k i nunde r th e ru g somewhere , lef t an dright , whateve r yo u ca n tel l them , t o kin do f addres s passenge r issue s afte r th e fact .

JUDG E YODER : An dyo u - - MR . WALLAESA : An dactuall y- - JUDG E YODER : - - yo u thin k th e decision s fo r th e las t 1 8 year s ha s jus t bee n wrong . MR . WALLAESA : Sure . Ye s Absolutely . JUDG E YODER : Okay . That' s fin e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 . 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 No wlet' s see . Yo u als o argu e i nyou r submissio n tha t th e proceedin g shoul db e dismisse d becaus e th e calculation s ar e base do nth e staf f manua l 2153(b) , an dno t actua l codifie d law . Okay . I jus t wan t yo u t o understan d tha t th e staf f manua l i s referre dt o byth e staff , tha t i s t o sa ybyCounse l fo r th e Complainant , becaus e the yhav e to .

Th e manua l i s bidin g o nthem . Th e manua l i s no t bindin g o nyou . An dit' s no t bindin g o nme . An dther e ar e anynumbe r o f decisions , includin g on e o f min e goin g bac k t o 1989 , tha t that' s th e case .

S o yo u nee dt o understan dwha t th e functio no f th e manua l is . Th e manua l tell s Counse l fo r th e Complainan t wha t the yhav e t o conside r i nproposin g a civi l penalty .

The ydon' t fi xa civi l penalty . I don' t amen dwha t the ypropos e t o asses s a s a civi l penalty . I fi xth e civi l penalty .

D o yo u understan dwha t I' msaying ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . WALLAESA : I understand . It' s

mypositio ntha t the yus e th e staf f manua l an d onl yth e staf f manua l t o com e u p wit ha number , an dn o investigatio nint o th e cas e whatsoever , o r kno wth e actua l precedent s prio r t o usin g th e staf f manual .

JUDG E YODER : Wel l th e on e thin g tha t the ycoul dhav e looke dat , othe r tha nth e staf f manual , whic hi s als o i nth e staf f manual , i s you r abilit yt o pay . An dyo u declin e t o allo wthe mt o loo k a t tha t issue . S o - - MR . WALLAESA : I neve r submitte d it . I sai di f I wa s takin g tha t option , a s I state dbefor e I woul drathe r - - I woul dwan t th e informatio nt o b e considere dbase do nwha t I ha ddon e an dho wtha t consider s - - wha t yo u conside r tha t t o - - othe r tha njus t le t thes e other s - - JUDG E YODER : Well , you'v e go t - - you'v e go t tw o week s t o figur e ou t whethe r yo u wan t t o d o tha t o r not .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 An dthen , let' s se e - - MR . WALLAESA : I t i s myposition , the yjus t pulle dth e numbe r ou t o f th e ai r withou t anybasi s i nactua l payment s o r rea l fact s base do nanyla wo r preceden t whatsoever . An djus t wen t t o th e staf f manual , looke du p i nth e tabl e an dsaid , "$550 0 i s abou t right. "

JUDG E YODER : I understand . The ni nth e documen t tha t yo u submitte dfro mth e transcrip t o f th e gran d jury , yo u stat e tha t th e fligh t attendant s ar e goin g t o saytha t yo u wer e polite , courteous , an dno t combative .

MR . WALLAESA : Tha t i s correct . JUDG E YODER : An dthe nyo u submi t
a pag e fro mth e transcript . An do ntha t pag e i t says . Responden t "pushe dbac k an dresiste d th e effor t t o mor e o r les s si t hi mdown. "

MR . WALLAESA : Bot hth e FB I specia l agen t an dth e fligh t attendan t state d tha t I wa s reluctantl ycompliant , an d

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 peacefull ycompliant , an doffere dn o

resistanc e whe naske dt o si t down .

JUDG E YODER : Jus t mak e sur e yo u rea dth e whol e thing , Mr . - -

MR . WALLAESA : I rea dth e whol e thing . I wa s ther e i nth e court . I wa s - -

JUDG E YODER : That' s wh yI wan t t o mak e sur e w e hav e th e whol e thing . S o w e ca n

MR . WALLAESA : Yo u d o hav e th e whol e thing .

JUDG E YODER : Okay . We'l l hop e t o ge t that . S o let' s se e now .

We ' v e go t dates . W e wan t th e financia l dat a b yth e 14t h~ - 15th .

MR . WALLAESA : 15th . JUDG E YODER : 15^^ . Th e gran djur y transcrip t byth e 15th . An dI woul dlik e yo u folk s to , onc e yo u ge t th e financia l data , i f yo u ar e goin g t o provid e that , I woul dlik e yo u folk s t o tal k abou t whethe r th e cas e i s

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1 settleabl e an dge t bac k t o m e byth e 2 3rd . 2 Okay ? 3 An donc e I hear , bac k tha t th e cas e 4 i s o r i s no t settling , w e wil l g o forwar dwit h 5 securin g a plac e t o conduc t a hearing , i f 6 that' s what' s goin g t o b e required . Okay . 7 I s ther e anythin g furthe r fro m 8 anybody ? 9 MR . STUART : No , Judge . 1 0 JUDG E YODER : Okay . Mr . Wallaesa ? 1 1 MR . WALLAESA : N o sir . 1 2 JUDG E YODER : Okay . Wel l than k 1 3 yo u al l fo r you r attendance . 1 4 An dw e loo k forwar dt o hearin g 1 5 fro myo u byth e 23r do nwhethe r there' s any 1 6 possibilit yo f thi s cas esettling . Al l right . 1 7 Tha t conclude s th e pre-hearin g 1 8 conference . 1 9 MR . STUART : Than k you , sir . 2 0 JUDG E YODER : Bye . 

### 2 1 (Whereupon , th e above-entitle d 2 2 matte r wa s conclude da t 3:4 7 p.m. )

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