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57–316 2010

ECONOMICS OF DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OILRISING GASOLINE PRICES 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON 

ENERGY INDEPENDENCE 

AND GLOBAL WARMING 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

MAY 9, 2007 

Serial No. 110–4 

( 

Printed for the use of the Select Committee on 

Energy Independence and Global Warming 

globalwarming.house.gov 


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(II) 

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ENERGY INDEPENDENCE 

AND GLOBAL WARMING 

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts, Chairman 

EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon 

JAY INSLEE, Washington 

JOHN B. LARSON, Connecticut 

HILDA L. SOLIS, California 

STEPHANIE HERSETH SANDLIN, 

South Dakota 

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri 

JOHN J. HALL, New York 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR, Wisconsin 

Ranking Member 

JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona 

GREG WALDEN, Oregon 

CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan 

JOHN SULLIVAN, Oklahoma 

MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee 

PROFESSIONAL STAFF

DAVID MOULTON, Staff Director 

ALIYA BRODSKY, Chief Clerk 

THOMAS WEIMER, Minority Staff Director 


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C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hon. Edward J. Markey, a Representative in Congress from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, opening statement .................................................... 1 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 3 

Hon. F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the 

State of Wisconsin, opening statement .............................................................. 6 

Hon. Earl Blumenauer, a Representative in Congress from the State of Oregon, opening statement ...................................................................................... 7 

Hon. Hilda Solis, a Representative in Congress from the State of California, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 8 

Hon. John Sullivan, a Representative in Congress from the State of Oklahoma, opening statement .................................................................................... 9 

Hon. Jerry McNerney, a Representative in Congress from the State of California, opening statement .................................................................................... 9 

Hon. Marsha Blackburn, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Tennessee, opening statement ............................................................................ 10 

Hon. Jay Inslee, a Representative in Congress from the State of Washington, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 10 

WITNESSES

Mr. Terry Thomas, President and CEO of the Community Bus Service, Incorporated .................................................................................................................. 11 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 13 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 103 

Mr. Michael Mitternight, owner of Factory Service Agency, Incorporated ......... 19 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 21 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 108 

Donn Teske, Farmer and President, Kansas Farmers Union, McPherson, KS .. 26 

Prepared Statement and attachments ............................................................ 28 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 38 

Sylvia Estes, Pipeline and Industrial Group, Virginia Beach, VA ...................... 57 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 59 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 119 

John Felmy, Chief Economist, American Petroleum Institute ............................ 65 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 67 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 120 

SUBMITTED MATERIAL

Hon. John Shadegg, letter of May 8, 2007, from Mr. McGinnis, Chief Executive Officer of Arizona Clean Fuels Yuma ......................................................... 125 

Hon. Nancy Pelosi and Hon. Dennis Hasert, letter of May 3, 2006 from 

the National Association for Pupil Transportation, National Association 

of State Directors of Pupil Transportation Services, and National School 

Transportation Association ................................................................................. 129 


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HEARING ON ECONOMICS OF DEPENDENCE 

ON FOREIGN OIL—RISING GASOLINE PRICES 

WEDNESDAY, MAY 9, 2007 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ENERGY INDEPENDENCE

AND GLOBAL WARMING, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 2 p.m.., in room 2318, 

Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Edward Markey (chairman of 

the Committee) presiding. 

Present: Representatives Markey, Blumenauer, Inslee, Solis, 

Herseth, Cleaver, Hall, McNerney, Sensenbrenner, Shadegg, Walden, Sullivan, and Blackburn. 

Chairman MARKEY. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. This hearing is commenced on the economics of dependence on foreign oil, 

rising gasoline prices. 

In 1973 Americans were shocked by a sudden increase in gasoline prices and supply shortage that were brought on by the Arab 

OPEC member states. And the price of the gasoline rose from 38 

cents in May of ’73 to .55 in June of 1974. Lines for refueling 

formed as supplies were constrained. But America responded. We 

largely moved away from the use of oil for electricity generation, 

going from 16 percent oil fired generation in ’72 to 2.5 percent 

today. 

We promoted energy efficiency and conservation, and most effectively in 1975 the Congress passed and President Ford signed a bill 

which doubled the fuel economy for the vehicle fleet in the United 

States from 13.5 miles per gallon to 27.5 miles per gallon, a doubling of fuel economy for the vehicles we drive in America in ten 

years. And what happened? 

Well, the dependence on foreign oil in the United States dropped 

from 46.5 percent in 1977 to 27 percent in 1985, a precipitous drop 

in oil consumption in the United States. We backed out 4.3 million 

barrels a day of energy consumption as the fuel economy average 

for the American automotive fleet doubled in just ten years. 

Well, today we are unfortunately faced with a similar crises. Because since 1986 what we are seeing is a dramatic rise in oil consumption, largely related to the fact that there has been an SUVlike truck exception that has seen the average for fuel economy go 

backwards since 1986 from 27 back to 25 miles per gallon, even as 

the United States has pretty much lead the way in deploying the 

internet around the world, cracked the human genome, here in 

auto mechanics we have actually gone backwards for the last 20 


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years. But with an increase from 27 percent to 60 percent our dependence upon imported oil. 

If all we did in the United States was to improve our fuel economy average from 25 miles per gallon to 35 miles per gallon, we 

would back out all of the oil that the United States imports from 

the Persian Gulf states. Just an increase in ten miles per gallon. 

And we can do that. 

As the price of gasoline now passes $3 and experts are predicting are $4 a gallon gasoline, this becomes an even more serious issue. 

Because not only are we spending all this money to import the oil, 

but the money which is then spent is used by many of these countries to finance the terrorism, to finance the hate which is then redirected back at the United States of America. It is the worst of 

all worlds for our country. If you are a family only one car making $20,000 a year, $3 a gallon gasoline consumes almost 9 percent of the annual income of 

that family. For a family making $40,000 a year, $3 a gallon gasoline costs 

them 4.5 percent of their annual budget. 

So this issue becomes something that is very real for ordinary 

Americans. This is a lot of money. Increasingly, OPEC is able to 

tip consumers upside down and shake money out of their pockets 

because we do not have a national policy which is effective to protect the consumers in our country. 

So this issue is something that is central to the American wellbeing. We have to increase the fuel economy of our cars and trucks. 

We have to increase the amounts of renewable, home grown 

biofuels. We have to prevent gasoline price gouging during times 

of tight supply and high demand. Gasoline prices are at $3 a gallon 

right now. Experts say that $4 a gallon is right around the corner 

for the American consumer. 

I look forward to gaining the perspective of our witnesses on this 

issue. It is an issue that effects our economy. It effects our national 

security. It effects the very ability of our country to be able to deal 

with issues both domestic and international. And so I do not think 

there can be a more important subject. I think that it is critical for 

us to understand that the time has now arrived for the Congress 

and, hopefully, for the President to begin to do something about 

this outrageous high priced gasoline that consumers are forced to 

purchase and as a result, make other choices that deprive their 

families of what they need. 

[The statement of Hon. Edward Markey follows:] 


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Chairman MARKEY. The time for the opening comments by the 

Chair has expired. I turn to recognize the Ranking Member, the 

Gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Sensenbrenner. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Contrary to popular belief this Select Committee is not just about 

global warming. Energy independence is also in this panel’s title. 

And I am pleased that today we will be talking about America’s dependence on foreign oil. 

Nowhere do Americans feel our economy’s reliance on foreign oil 

more than when filling up at the pump. Everyone who drives 

knows that the cost of gas has been rising. While some of us have 

almost become use to gasoline price fluctuations, most of us will 

never get used to the consequences of high gas prices. 

Some of the reasons for these fluctuations are straight from the 

economics 101 textbook. Demand for oil is rising around the world 

and cartels like OPEC, which enforce production controls, are not 

doing much to help keep costs down. 

Geo-political uncertainty is also doing its part to keep the value 

of a barrel of oil high. 

If American drivers are going to see gas prices drop, we need to 

break our country’s dependence on foreign oil. But we also need to 

break Washington’s dependency on taxes and regulation. Lowering 

the cost of gas is about freeing drivers from regulations that keep 

prices high and about reducing dependency on foreign oil. 

When crude oil gets to U.S. shores it must be processed into gasoline at domestic refineries. Today the U.S. has the ability to refine 

about 17 million barrels of oil a day into gasoline. Unfortunately, 

the average U.S. demand for gasoline is 21 million barrels a day. 

This gap is often met by importing gasoline that has been refined 

in other countries, further expanding our reliance on foreign 

sources of energy. 

The residents of my District, which is the area surrounding Milwaukee, often experience the hidden fee cost by limited refinery capacity. While the national average for gasoline was reasonably reported to be $3.07 a gallon, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported yesterday that my constituents are paying $3.28 a gallon. 

And why so high? Scheduled maintenance, a power failure and 

even a fire have reduced capacity at the refineries in Indiana and 

Minnesota that supply the Milwaukee area. 

Mr. Felmy of API says the industry is working to increase refinery capacity, and that’s very good. However, I also note that it has 

been 30 years since a new gasoline refinery has been built in the 

United States. An expensive and cumbersome permitting process 

has contributed to this trend. 

Republicans last year tried to streamline this process in a way 

that will continue to protect the environment. But, unfortunately, 

we met too much opposition along the way. 

As we hear from the panelists today, higher gas prices are felt 

nearly every corner of the economy from farmers to small businesses to school bus operators. 

Mr. Michael Mitternight says in his testimony that gas prices are 

wrecking havoc on America’s small businesses. Mr. Mitternight 

also rightly notes that onerous government regulations hit small 

businesses very hard. 


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As Congress looks for ways to address both global warming and 

energy independence issue, I am worried that the cure may be 

worse than the cough. The most recent report from the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change includes a proposal for a 

tax of $100 for each ton of carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere. The Washington Post reported last Saturday that that proposal could result in drivers paying up a $1 more for each gallon 

of gas they pump. The testimony we will hear today shows that $4 a gallon gas 

would be a blow to the economy. Fortunately Mr. Mitternight also 

has many positive ideas on how to address these problems. He says 

that any government energy problem must focus on new technology, should use the power of markets and protect American jobs. 

And I agree. I will add that any energy or environmental policy 

must also produce tangible environment improvements and include 

international participation from countries like India and China. 

I am pleased this panel is talking about energy independence. 

Let us hope that today’s discussion helps us find way to free American drivers from both foreign oil and government regulators. 

I thank the Chair and yield back the balance of time. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentleman’s time has expire. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Oregon, Mr. 

Blumenauer. 

Mr. BLUMENAUER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I appreciate your setting the context in terms of how we rose to 

the challenge 30 years ago when we were facing this issue. The 

trends that you demonstrated in terms of failure for us to deal 

meaningfully with conservation, there is a very real issue in terms 

of refinery capacity. But it is not a case of tweaking, streamlining 

regulatory matter. I think the record will show that there has been 

a conscious effort to actually reduce the amount of refining capacity. There has been more consolidation. I look forward to being able 

to deal with some of the impacts that that has had in terms of the 

free market. 

I know that there are other initiatives that are being examined 

to make sure that there is not collusion and unfair advantage being 

taken by people who are consumers. I think in any respect it is 

going to require a balanced approach in terms of dealing with supply, in terms of dealing with conservation, making sure that a market that is becoming less and less perfect both nationally and internationally, that we examine to see if there are ways that we can 

provide the protections to make sure that the market does in fact 

work. 

I appreciate the breadth of opinions that are being offered. I had 

a chance to skim some of the testimony. I think it is going to be 

very useful for us to have as part of the record. And look forward 

to a conversation with people who are dealing with these consequences on an ongoing basis. 

I know the people that I represent who are now looking at the 

third highest gasoline prices in the country, this is not an idol concern whether they are commuters, whether they are small business 

people or that they are people who are just breathing the air and 

wondering where we are going. 

Thank you very much. 


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Chairman MARKEY. The Gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Shadegg. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing. And I will waive my opening statement and reserve. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentleman reserves his time. 

The Gentleman from Oregon, Mr. Walden. 

Mr. WALDEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, would rather reserve my time and use it in questions. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentlelady from California, Ms. Solis. 

Ms. SOLIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And I am delighted to be here this afternoon to hear what our 

witnesses have to say. Every time I go home, and I go home just 

about every weekend here from Washington to visit my District in 

Los Angeles, the number one question that people tell me at any 

forum or any meeting is ‘‘When is the gas price going to go down, 

Hilda. I do not want to hear about anything else. I want to know 

when the gas prices are going to go down.’’ 

When you have working families suffering right now with other 

economic constraints on them, you hear about the price of gasoline 

nationally. Well, let me tell you, folks, in California and Los Angeles for the last two years it has been above $3. In fact, in my District in east Los Angeles, probably one of the poorest areas in the 

country, we are experiencing levels of $3.69 a gallon and sometimes 

even upwards on the west side of town, the higher income, maybe 

$4 and higher. 

So we are talking about a real crunch on our pocketbook, but we 

are also talking about the cost of people who want to use public 

transportation. We are seeing proposals right now in my District 

where the Metropolitan Transportation District would like to increase their fees almost 80 percent. And the majority of those bus 

riders tend to be low income folks who do not have cars so they 

use alternative sources of transportation. But again because the 

high cost of gasoline and what have you, they are not going to be 

experiencing an increase from what is now at a $1.25 to up to $2. 

That is an 87 percent increase for the ridership. And many of constituents use those buses to get around town, to get to work, to see 

the doctor and what have you. 

I am equally concerned also about our schools. And I know one 

of our witnesses will be talking about traveling on school buses. 

Well, I tend to represent one of the largest, second largest school 

district in the county, LA Unified School District. This was a question that I raised last year during the energy. Debate how we dealing with the high cost of fuel and fuel efficiency in trying to make 

sure that our students get to school on time and get home on time, 

and that they are safe. And believe me, there was not much discussion or concern at the time. 

And, yes, I tend to agree with some of my colleagues here that 

costs that are being transferred onto the consumer are not transparent. And what I am trying to get to is that refineries and what 

have you, there is not a shortage of refineries. There is a shortage 

of political will. 

So I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentlelady’s time has expired. 


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The Gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Sullivan. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you for holding this hearing today on an important 

issue of rising gas prices. I welcome this debate. 

As you remember, in 2005 the Republican Majority in the House 

passed the Gasoline for America Security Act. The Gas Act helped 

bring greater quantities of fuel to the market by expanding domestic refining capacity and limiting the number of gasoline and diesel 

blends refineries must product. By increasing the quantity of fuel 

that makes it into American’s neighborhood gas stations, we are 

able to help keep the price consumers pay per gallon from rising. 

Additionally, by opening up the Outer Continental Shelf to new 

energy exploration, the House allowed for oil and natural gas exploration in an area holding 85 percent of America’s Outer Continental Shelf energy, much of which was untapped because of a 25 

year old ban on deep sea energy production. 

Furthermore, if President Clinton had not vetoed ANWR legislation in 1995, the U.S. could be domestically producing 1 million 

barrels of oil from that area today. Having both these areas into 

play would allow the U.S. to have energy security through a more 

diverse supply. 

I am submitting for the record a letter from the National School 

Transportation Association citing their support for past action on 

gas prices. This includes H.R. 5254, legislation from the 109th Congress which would have streamlined the permitting process to 

allow for new or expanded domestic refineries to be built. I, too, 

supported this legislation and was original sponsor. This noteworthy legislation would have helped meet America’s increasing demand for gasoline by increasing domestic refining capacity. It is a 

shame that this legislation was not able to move past the Senate. 

Thank you. And I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Cleaver. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Mr. Chairman, thank you for holding the hearing. 

I would reserve my time and use it to ask questions. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentleman’s time will be reserved. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from California. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

We all know that there are numerous factors impacting the price 

of a gallon of gasoline: World conflict, for example; refinery capacity 

as has been mentioned here earlier; weather changes such as 

Katrina can all contribute to fluctuating gas prices. However, we 

are now experiencing prices that are higher in California than the 

post-Katrina gouge. We are paying nearly 3.50 a gallon, as my colleague from California mentioned with reports from some stations 

in the Bay area just a nickel short of $4 a gallon. This kind of price 

hike is very bad for commuters and business alike. 

We all know that we are going to experience even higher prices 

as the summer wears on and vacationers head out. Clearly if our 

cars and trucks had better fuel efficiency, lowering the demand for 

gasoline, the price of gas would be lower. The better the efficiency, 

the lower the price. 

Moreover, wasteful consumption of gasoline does contribute to 

global warming, another very bad outcome. 


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So I am looking forward to hearing the testimony from today’s 

witnesses. And I hope we can highlight just how devastating high 

prices can be on our small businesses. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentleman from California time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentlelady from Tennessee. 

Ms. BLACKBURN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the 

hearing. 

And I want to thank and welcome our witnesses. We are looking 

forward to the testimony today. 

In many places in the U.S. energy prices for electricity and transportation fuel are increasing significantly. You are hearing that 

from us today as we are out there with our constituents in responding to what they tell us. It has effected many sectors of our economy and in my District we hear a lot about this from our small 

businesses and our logistic businesses in their work. 

I believe that we can make America energy independent and free 

from all foreign sources of energy, but it is going to take serious 

actions to increase and diversify our supply of available energy. It 

is not going to be easy. We did not get here overnight and we are 

not going to get out of it overnight. We realize that. 

The interesting thing is we do have vast resources of oil, gas and 

coal in our country that would meet our need for hundreds of 

years. But there is a group of people that do not want us to tap 

into these resources. Now, I have had some interesting conversations with some from this group. And when you ask them what 

they would recommend, sometimes you will get an answer that 

sounds like returning to the stone age or having a substandard 

quality of life and shutting down our coal plants because there is 

a perceived threat of global warming. And most often it does not 

include measures that incorporate conservation, innovation, deregulation, exploration, production or commercialism; all steps I 

feel are necessary to get us to energy independence. 

What Americans want is reliable and affordable energy, but they 

do not want to sacrifice their way of life because of somebody’s political agenda that is based on what they consider to be a faulty 

and unproven science. They want options that will allow them a 

continuance of a good quality of life and an available and affordable energy supply. And they want to continue to benefit from a robust economy. 

America would rather have us here in Congress encourage the 

production of more energy right here in this country and not rely 

on foreign sources of oil that could increase prices with little notice. 

Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the hearing today. I look forward 

to the comments from our witnesses. 

Chairman MARKEY. Thank the Gentlelady. 

And Mr. Inslee, you are the last Member if you wish to be recognized for an opening statement. 

Mr. INSLEE. I just want to say briefly that there is a cause for 

optimism in this whole issue. I was walking over to be on C– 

SPAN’s journal this morning and ran across a car that gets 150 

miles a gallon runs 40 miles on electricity when you plug it in, and 

one day we are running ethanol and we ought to have optimism 


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and use technology to solve this problem. And I am glad this Committee is on the job to do it. 

Chairman MARKEY. I thank the Gentleman very much. 

I will note before we will hear from the witnesses. But for the 

Members there is a clock right in the middle of Mr. Teske right 

there. And that clock will move from green to yellow with one 

minute remaining, and then to red if anyone is interested in just 

keeping track of the time which you have. 

So now we will turn to witnesses. And I would like to now recognize our first witness, Mr. Terry Thomas, President and CEO of 

the Community Bus Service, Incorporated in Youngstown, Ohio. 

Welcome, sir. 

STATEMENT OF TERRENCE V. THOMAS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, 

COMMUNITY BUS SERVICES, INCORPORATED

Mr. THOMAS. Thank you so much, Chairman Markey, Members 

of the Committee. 

My name is Terry Thomas. I am President and CEO of the Community Bus Services. My company provides school bus service to 22 

school districts and 7.000 students in northern Ohio. 

I am past President of the National School Transportation Association, which represents private school bus contractors that operate one-third of the nation’s 475,000 school buses. 

I also serve on the Governing Committee of the American School 

Bus Council, which is a coalition of public and private operators, 

manufacturers, suppliers and State policymakers. We represent the 

entire school bus industry. And my remarks today are consistent 

with the entire school bus industry. 

I appreciate the opportunity to share with you my concerns about 

the effect of energy dependence, rising fuel costs on my family, and 

I am the father of five children three of which ride the school bus 

everyday, my business, the school districts I serve and the entire 

school bus industry. According to the latest statistics from the U.S. 

Department of Education 56 percent of public school students in 

the United States depend on school bus to access their education. 

Twenty-five million public school children every day on a fleet of 

vehicles that is two and a half times the size of all other forms of 

mass transportation; that is transit buses, intercity business, commercial airlines and rail combined. School buses are far safer statistically than any other mode of travel with an average of 20 fatalities a year compared to 800 fatalities a year for students traveling to school by any other means. Teenagers are 44 times safer 

if they ride the bus rather than riding with their friends. 

But when faced with the need to cut service, school districts are 

most likely to discontinue high school transportation, thereby encouraging or even forcing teenagers to high risk driving. 

School buses play an important role in mitigating traffic congestion. Replacing an average of 50 personal automobiles for every 

school bus on the road. In addition, one school bus uses significantly less fuel than 50 cars and SUVs. 

The Federal Government provides no funding source for routine 

home to school transportation or school activity transportation. Increasingly, a larger burden falls on the local school districts to support school transportation, and though it represents just four perVerDate Mar 15 2010 01:36 Jul 23, 2010 Jkt 057316 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A316.XXX A316

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cent of the total school budget, it is the first target hit when districts need to reduce expenditures. 

From September 2004 to September 2005 the price of diesel fuel 

increased an average of 58 percent, a $1 a gallon. Though prices 

slipped back somewhat in 2006, they are on the rise again and in 

many areas have reached or exceeded the 2005 highs. Other transportation modes are better able to either absorb the costs or pass 

them on to the marketplace. The school bus operators literally have 

nowhere to go. 

School districts have had to find other ways to respond, most of 

which now involve reduction of school bus service. For example, 

Troy, Michigan eliminated sports and activity trips. Massachusetts 

districts are charging parents for school bus service. Ohio eliminated, if you can believe this, 80,000 students from school transportation over the last two years. Tennessee and Georgia closed 

schools for two days last year and Kentucky went to four-day 

weeks for some schools just as a result of the cost of the fuel for 

the school buses. 

Congestion, pollution, excessive fuel consumption, inconvenience 

to parents and employers, inconsistent attendance and interruptions in the educational progress, all of these result from reductions 

in school bus service. But the number one reason to ensure that 

school buses keep running is student safety. 

We know Congress is tackling this issue on many fronts, and our 

industry has supported efforts to increase supply through more refinery capacity and reasonable exploration of oil and to protect consumers against price gouging. Additional steps that might help 

with fuel costs and congestion include: The use of Federal Highway 

Congestion Mitigation Funding for the purpose of new school buses 

and for a national public education campaign to encourage the 

greater use of school buses to cut down on the use of personal vehicles; 

Federal assistance to school districts to offset the ever increasing 

cost of fuel, regardless of whether the districts operate it themselves or if they contract out for the service; 

An investment tax credit or other incentives for bus manufacturers to encourage the production of energy efficient and alternative 

power vehicles; 

Managing tax credit for school bus companies to encourage purchase of a cleaner, more energy efficient fleet, and; 

Funding to assist Federal mandates to meet safety, environmental and security standards. 

As fuel costs go up due to the increased cost of energy, everyone 

feels the burden including parents who pay for gas to drive their 

school children. Already schools are seeing a difference. Sixty percent of the districts reported an increase of ridership due to fuel 

prices. 

I want to thank the Committee for this opportunity to provide 

some insight into our industry and share our concerns. 

[The statement of Mr. Thomas follows:] 


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Chairman MARKEY. Thank you, Mr. Thomas, very much. 

Our second witness, Mr. Michael Mitternight, is the owner of 

Factory Service Agency, Incorporated, a commercial air conditioning, construction and service company in Metairie, Louisiana. 

He has been nominated as a finalist for the 2007 Small Business 

Advocate of the year. After Hurricane Katrina he helped many 

New Orleans area businesses recover and resume operations. 

Welcome, Mr. Mitternight. 

STATEMENT OF MICHAEL MITTERNIGHT, OWNER FACTORY SERVICE

AGENCY, INCORPORATED

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. Thank you, Chairman Markey and Ranking 

Member Sensenbrenner, Members of the Committee. 

My name is Mike Mitternight. I am the owner of Factory Service 

Agency, the family owned small business established in 1975 located in the New Orleans of Metairie, Louisiana. My company specializes in commercial air conditioning service and installation 

throughout southeast Louisiana. 

I am also a member of the National Small Business Association, 

which the Chairman just mentioned. 

I would like to thank you for inviting me to testify today about 

the impact of rising gasoline prices on small businesses, particularly mine. I am very grateful that you are cognizant of the negative effect increasing gasoline prices are having on small business 

across the country and that you are seeking to address it. Whatever the cause, the volatile increase in price of gasoline is wreaking 

havoc on America’s small businesses. 

The day-to-day operation of my small business, I have as many 

as six service trucks and three management vehicles on the street 

at any one point in time. In order to carry the load of tools and 

service equipment necessary to provide the service for the equipment upon which we work, most of my service trucks are three 

quarter ton pickup trucks with a service body on the back. Obviously, these trucks fall into the category of nonfuel efficient vehicles. Unfortunately, there is no affordable alternative to this choice. 

Currently the cost of gasoline in the metropolitan New Orleans area varies from $2.88 per gallon to 2.93 per gallon from a low of 

1.98 late last year. This sudden and unpredictable 50-percent increase hits directly at the bottom line of my business, and countless 

others. 

In my industry one major problem is that many of my service 

and maintenance contracts are fixed cost contracts with billable 

rates established well in advance, sometimes for a period of a year 

with no opportunity to recoup increased expenses. Although I routinely try to include an estimated escalation percentage in my pricing, the actual cost of gasoline is impossible to project. If I project 

too large an increase, I will lose the contract. If I project too small, 

I will lose money. 

Direct impact on cash flow, the life blood of any business is seen when you compare a weekly operating cost for fuel from $325 in 

December of ’06 to my current expense of $510 a week. This represents an increase of 60 percent in only five months. 

A fellow contractor in my area provided me with the cost figures 

of his company showing an increase of 113 percent in fuel costs beVerDate Mar 15 2010 01:36 Jul 23, 2010 Jkt 057316 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A316.XXX A316

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tween ’02 and ’06. How in the world does a small business owner 

like me supposed to cope with this sort of a volatile and devastating price increase? How can I expect to formulate a viable 

business model with these sorts of wild price fluctuations? How can 

I grow my business? How can I add additional employees? 

As summer months approach, fuel costs continue to rise, almost 

expidentially with the temperature. Unfortunately for my business 

the summer price surge occurs during a period of increased fuel 

consumption as a result of expanded service activity. I dare say 

that these numbers are typical for most businesses regardless of 

their geographic location. 

In fact, 75 percent of respondents doing an NSBA survey last 

year reported their businesses had either been significantly or moderately effected by rising prices. 

In order to maintain any level of profit in my operation I have 

no alternative but to pass the cost of rising gasoline prices onto my 

customers. Sometimes I could arbitrarily increase—just put a fuel 

surcharge on, but I cannot do that on fixed cost contracts and long 

term customers, and I cannot arbitrarily raise hourly rates. 

One unique problem that I face in the New Orleans area, the fact 

that many areas are still recovering, is that the availability of service stations is a factor. No long are there sources of fuel on every 

other corner. It’s imperative that my service technicians be properly routed to ensure that they have adequate gas supply for their 

day’s routes as they make their rounds. 

The immediate problem of removing flood waters from my property, working to help family and employees return and recover, reestablishing customer contact and establishing necessary financing 

when my accounts receivable became accounts inconceivable following the storm all seem to have been a foreteller of today’s problem of upwarding spiraling fuel costs. Despite such persistence obstacles in the situation in New Orleans has improved. At least I 

no longer have to fill five gallon gas cans at a remote location and 

fuel my trucks by hand. Now my main concern seems to be what 

will the price be at the pump when my trucks roll out in the morning. 

It is one thing to deal with such uncertainty and volatility in the 

midst of what is arguably the worst natural disaster in the nation’s 

history, it is another to have to deal with the day-to-day basis a 

year and a half after the event occurred. 

New Orleans area, we are working to solve these problems. The 

rising cost of gas is just a devastating problem that we are fighting, 

but it is something that we are trying to deal with. The NSBA has 

several issues that they are supporting and ideas that they are behind. I mentioned in my written testimony: Increasing and diversifying the domestic and energy production; improving the efficiency 

standards which would help anyone; studying utilization of hybrid 

vehicles especially those that run on alternative fuels but they need 

to be something that are capable of carrying service loads on major 

service trucks and most hybrid vehicles will not accomplish that. 

Thank you for your time, sir. And I welcome questions. 

[The statement of Mr. Mitternight follows:] 


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Chairman MARKEY. Thank you, Mr. Mitternight. 

Speaking of alternative fuels, Mr. Donn Teske is a farmer from 

northeastern Kansas. He is now in his seventh year as the Kansas 

Farmers Union President. He serves on the Boards of numerous 

other agricultural associations. He has worked at Kansas State 

University as a farm analyst. 

We welcome you, Mr. Teske. Whenever you feel comfortable, 

please begin. 

STATEMENT OF DONN TESKE, PRESIDENT, KANSAS FARMERS UNION

Mr. TESKE. Thank you, Congressman Markey. Thank you Member Sensenbrenner. Members of the Committee. 

I consider this a really unique opportunity for a pretty darn 

nervous redneck farmer from Kansas to be addressing this group. 

So if I get to stuttering around, have patience with me. 

Energy consumption in agriculture is a very significant issue, 

and I really welcome the opportunity to have it. And representing 

and speaking on behalf of Kansas Farmers Union and National 

Farmers Union, we really want to compliment this Committee on 

the proactive approach that they are having to address in this very 

serious issue. 

Personally we operate a fifth generation farm in northeast Kansas, as the Congressman said. We are on the eastern edge of the 

Flint Hills in Pottawatomie County, Kansas. 

The operation is about 2,000 acres, about two-thirds of that is 

native bluestem grass, another 500 acres of it is certified organic. 

On that we raise commodities that we sell into the organic livestock industry, mostly alfalfa hay, red clover hay, corn, milo, 

wheat, soy beans; that type of thing. 

In the past my wife and I operated a dairy farm there for many 

years. My wife Kathy was really glad to see the cows go. 

Agriculture has really been stagnant for quite a few years now. 

I have farmed for 30 years and a lot of times it ends up, you know, 

you are in the red. And if it is in the black, it is usually about the 

difference in the government subsidy payments that make the difference. 

Both my wife and I have had to seek off farm employment to sustain a family. To me there is something wrong when you have a 

farm operation that size and both spouses are working off the farm 

to feed the family so they can produce their share of the country’s 

food supply virtually for free. 

Now on top of that we get into a situation like this where we 

have been blindsided by super high energy costs, and it is a double 

whammy. 

The former Congressman from Massachusetts John Kennedy 

once said that the farmer is the only entity out there that buys everything retail and sells everything wholesale. And there is a lot 

of truth in that. You know, everything that we put into the farm 

we buy in the marketplace and we have virtually no control over 

what we get from it. And the new energy costs expenses that we 

are getting on, we cannot automatically pass on. So the buck stops 

here, and it is with us, and it has really been a bad situation. And 

we are trying to deal with this at a time when oil companies are 

recording record profits? A little hard to digest. 


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To put it in a little perspective into the farm situation, I got 

some information from Kansas State University Farm Management 

data. In 2000 it took about 115 bucks to put in an acre of non-irrigated crops in Kansas. Out of that 26 percent was energy related. 

In 2005 it took 140 bucks and about 35 percent is energy related. 

That is over 20 bucks an acre that I got to figure out how to come 

up with. 

To put it on a personal note, I have some letters that I would 

like to include as support from a real bank and from a trucker. 

I had a trucker that took a load of hay to Texas for me a couple 

of weeks ago. That load of alfalfa hay was 20 tons. It is going to 

bring me about a $3500 check when it is all done. The increased 

expenses on the recent escalation in fuel prices compared to what 

we did before is going to add 600 bucks of trucking expense to that 

load. Somewhere between the three entities, the trucker, the dairyman and myself, we got to figure out how to absorb that 600 bucks 

to keep going the way we have been going. And that does not work 

very well. 

Now on the positive side of things it looks to me like society is 

finally starting to address the issue of our environment. And I 

think that is wonderful. Global warming to me is very real, and I 

think it is the scariest thing that I am leaving for my children. 

Economies can be fixed. Governments can be fixed. You mess up 

our world, you kind of got a problem. 

I think that we as a nation need to take responsibility, and I 

have four quick steps that I wanted to put in. 

Number one and foremost is energy conservation. We are a gluttony nation and we need to do something about it. 

Number two. We need a nationwide renewable portfolio standard, especially addressing community wind would be my passion. 

Number three. I think we need to address the food issues in our 

transportation system and food delivery. We need to go back to 

more local food production and supply and distribution. We are 

shipping our food all over the country. 

And number four. And the worst case scenario is we may have 

to look at rationing because we may have to separate the entertainment from the necessities. 

And I do want to thank you. And would ask that that be included. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Teske follows:] 


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Chairman MARKEY. I thank you, Mr. Teske. And without objection it will be included in the record. 

We thank you for quoting President Kennedy on farm policy. 

That is very helpful to me. Actually, we were just the reverse in 

the Markey family. My father was a milkman, so we actually go 

back to the retail again, going door-to-door with it, having the company purchase it wholesale. 

We will now move on to our next witness. Our next witness is 

Sylvia Estes. She is a Native American Indian. She owns two businesses in Virginia Beach, Virginia; the Pipeline Industrial Group 

performs new construction, demolition, design build, emergency response mostly for the Federal Government. 

We welcome you, Ms. Estes. Whenever you are ready, please 

begin. 

STATEMENT OF SYLVIA ESTES, PIPELINE INDUSTRIAL GROUP

Ms. ESTES. I am more nervous than he is. 

Chairman MARKEY. Well, he did a great job. I am sure you will, 

too. 

Ms. ESTES. He did a fabulous job. 

I am a farmer as well. I have a horse farm and a construction 

company, both of which, anyone here we all know that fuel costs 

going up have firm fixed price contracts which means we do not get 

economic adjustments and we eat it off the bottom line. So as your 

costs keep going up or our costs keep going up, our profit margins 

keep going down. 

I will sit here and try go back to my prepared statement. 

Founded in January 2000 Pipeline Industrial Group started with 

four employees and two trucks. Our primary work was petroleum. 

The field of petroleum had lapsed, and we went into construction. 

The Government grew us in construction. As of today, we support 

120 people, that includes wives and children. We are a team. We 

work together as a team. Together we overcome problems every 

single day. We do whatever the Government ask of us, whether it 

is new construction or Hurricane cleanup. 

I have talked about rising gas prices and how they are effecting 

the small businesses like mine and the families and the community 

they support. We cannot build in contingency to our proposals with 

the Government. Any additional costs at all comes off our bottom 

line profits. 

The rise in fuel costs effect nearly every aspect of my business 

in one way or another. Many direct costs. It costs me more to run 

my business. Costs of materials, copper, steel, they have escalated 

in price. The cost in labor, and my employees expect more money. 

In order for them to even get to work I have to pay them more 

money. And in order to keep them, I have to get employees that 

do not have as much experience so that I can afford them. And 

then I have to train them and I have to start all over again. 

Every time our economy shifts, the small business shifts. We are 

good people. We work hard. We want to do good for you. We believe 

that there is technology available to you that we all hope that you 

would look at. Technology that is a little different than the normal. 

I spent four days writing your speech that I cannot even remember. I looked at every single thing on the internet I could possibly 


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read, and my poor brain got fried. I did find one thing that I found 

was extremely interesting and it was called SkyTran. Runs off of 

solar energy. It is not paid for by the government. It is private industry. Whether it will work or not, I cannot answer that. I do not 

have your answers, but I do know that there is technology here in 

the United States that does have your answers. 

And instead of us relying on someone else to give our country 

what we need to exist, why can we not rely on ourselves? We do 

it everyday as a team. Look at Hurricane Katrina. We all pitched 

in together. That is what America is made of. It is not made of politics. And I will give you small joke that I have recently been told. 

Politics are the worst kind of ticks to have. And as a country girl, 

I agree with that. 

I am sorry. We are out here earning a living. We want to make 

the best for our employees. We treat them with respect. We give 

them the respect that they are out there working for us. And as 

long as we keep that respect in life, we all keep moving up. When 

we take that respect away, and when you start raising the cost consider the fact that these people are not eating lunch. You may actually have enough money in your bank account to afford to go out 

to lunch, but most employees do not. They skip lunch, they skip 

breakfast and they eat dinner. 

I have a nursery in my office so I can keep my employees. A lot 

of babies being born. It is one way that I can give back instead of 

giving raises. Every employer should be responsible for their employees. You should not go to sleep at night if you do not think 

your business is going to make it. You should figure out how to 

make it. 

I would like to ask you guys to look at how to make it. If I can 

tell you in four days between running a business, two businesses 

and two teenagers, there is not much left of me. But I do know that 

there are answers. I know they are here. I know the internet is a 

great source for them. I have read more articles. One says it is pro, 

one says it is against. I mean, what is real? Does anyone truly 

know what is truly real? I agree with him, global warming is real. 

We are experiencing more storms. In fact, I have been invited by 

the government to go next week or the week after to a world global 

emergency summit because we all are facing problems. 

We need to pay attention to what it is going to be twenty years 

from now, forty years from now, not just today. We have children 

and, hopefully, someday grandchildren. 

And I thank you. 

[The statement of Ms. Estes follows:] 


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Chairman MARKEY. Thank you. Thank you Ms. Estes very much. 

And I heard what you said at the beginning of your statement 

and I know you will not take this as a compliment, but you would 

be an excellent politician. Really, you have the makings of one. You 

are very good. 

And next we have John Felmy. Dr. Felmy is the Chief Economist 

of the American Petroleum Institute. He is responsible for overseeing economic statistical and policy analysis of the American Petroleum Institute. He has over 25 years experience in energy, economic and environmental analysis. He received bachelor’s and master’s in economics from Pennsylvania State University, and a Ph.D. 

in economics from the University of Maryland. 

Welcome, Dr. Felmy. Whenever you are ready, please begin. 

STATEMENT OF DR. JOHN FELMY, CHIEF ECONOMIST, AMERICAN

PETROLEUM INSTITUTE

Mr. FELMY. Chairman Markey, Ranking Member Sensenbrenner, 

Members of the Committee, I am John Felmy, Chief Economist at 

API, the national trade association of the U.S. oil and natural gas 

industry. API represents nearly 400 companies involved in all aspects of oil and natural gas industry, including exploration and production, refining, marketing, transportation as well as service companies that support our industry. 

U.S. oil and gas companies understand the frustration that consumers are expressing about gasoline prices. We recognize that 

these higher prices adversely impact individuals, households, businesses and potentially the economy. Our member companies are 

doing everything they can to meet the fuel needs of U.S. consumers. 

As of today, crude oil inventories have been building and are 8.9 

percent above the five year average at this time. 

Year to date gasoline production is 8.85 million barrels per day, 

the highest ever. Thanks to the industry’s major investments in 

state-of-the-art refining technologies, our companies are able to 

squeeze more gasoline and diesel fuel from a barrel of crude oil 

compared to past years. Looking ahead, we expect to bring the 

equivalent of an additional eight new refineries into operation by 

2011. 

Despite the industry’s all out efforts we are still faced with a set 

of challenges that in combination have driven up gasoline prices. 

Most importantly, crude oil prices have fluctuated significantly 

driven by lingering geo-political tensions, OPEC’s continuing production controls and worldwide demand growth. 

More than half the price of gasoline is attributable to crude oil. 

Oil companies do not set the price of crude. It is bought and sold 

in international markets and the price paid for a barrel of crude 

reflects the market conditions of that day. 

A second major factor is that gasoline demand in the U.S. 

reached a record high in the first quarter of this year. The Department of Energy forecasts that demand will increase further in the 

summer driving season, which begins this month. 

Moreover, nearly half of U.S. gasoline is blended with ethanol so 

as demand has gone up, ethanol prices and the cost of ethanol 

blended gasoline has risen as well. 


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In addition, the annual switchover to summer blend gasoline required by EPA has occurred. And this warm weather gasoline is 

more expensive to produce. The switchover requires a large supply 

drawdown to meet regulations. Unless gasoline is available to import because of spring refinery maintenance in Europe, an 18 day 

French port workers strike in March led some European refiners 

to reduce production. 

U.S. gasoline production this year is at all time record highs despite regularly scheduled refinery maintenance and several unexpected problems that have interrupted some refining operations. 

The maintenance is a normal procedure, though delayed in some 

cases by damages suffered from the catastrophic hurricanes in 

2005. 

While maintenance curtails refining operations temporarily, it 

helps to ensure the longtime viability of the refinery and protects 

the health and safety of our workers. 

Some are again accusing the industry of illegal activity. Our industry has been repeatedly investigated over the many decades by 

the Federal Trade Commission and State Attorneys General. Of 

more than 30 investigations that we are aware of, all have resulted 

in exoneration. 

I would also note the introduction of price gauging legislation in 

Congress. I would caution that this legislation could have many unintended consequences that would not benefit consumers. 

Rising gasoline prices are a burden on U.S. consumers, but they 

cannot be viewed in isolation from the U.S. energy situation. Solution to the energy challenge that we face is to increase and diversify sources of supply, including alternatives, reduced demand and 

expand infrastructure. We have plentiful domestic oil and gas resources remaining to be discovered in the U.S. Only government 

policies stand in the way of increasing access to these resources, facilitating refining capacity and pipeline expansions and increasing 

energy security. 

America can meet its energy challenges just as it has met great 

challenges in the past. But meaningful changes in energy policy 

will be required. 

API stands ready to work with your Committee and others in the 

Congress and the Administration to help bring about these changes 

that are so important for America’s energy future. 

With that, I will thank the Committee and I will be happy to answer any questions you might have. 

[The statement of Dr. Felmy follows:] 


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Chairman MARKEY. Thank you, Dr. Felmy, very much. 

That completes the time for opening statements by the witnesses. 

The Chair will now turn and recognize himself for five minutes. 

Dr. Felmy, yesterday in the Senate Commerce Committee legislation dealing with fuel economy of cars and light trucks was passed. 

Senator Cantwell added an amendment which dealt with the issue 

of oil price gauging. Can I ask you some questions about that? 

Do you agree that President Bush should have the authority to 

declare a temporary national emergency if there was a threatened 

or existing disruption of oil and petroleum supplies due to events 

such as a hurricane or a terrorist attack? 

Mr. FELMY. I believe that in the area of price gauging you have 

a number of possibilities that could be considered. I have not seen 

the exact legislation to know the exact wording on how that could 

be declared and what else would go with it. But we do have cases 

where governors have the ability to be able to declare emergencies 

for some situation such as that. So it would be something that we 

would have to look at carefully. 

Chairman MARKEY. Well, you were quoted in yesterday’s newspaper as saying that ‘‘Senator Cantwell’s legislation was unfortunate political rhetoric with no basis in facts.’’ So I think that today’s answer is somewhat different, in fact radically different from 

what you said yesterday. 

Let me ask another question. Do you agree that in the event that 

there was a national emergency, national energy emergency that it 

should be illegal to charge unconscionably excess prices for gasoline? 

Mr. FELMY. As an economist, Mr. Chairman, I do not know what 

‘‘unconscionable’’ means. 

What we have seen in the past in terms of changes have been 

largely as a result of market forces at all levels of the supply chain. 

I simply do not know what ‘‘unconscionable’’ means in terms of a 

definition that can be usefully employed that would not cause potential problems in the marketplace that could, again, have unintended consequences. 

Chairman MARKEY. I think the other witnesses know what unconscionable would mean in terms of high energy prices. I see all 

four heads nodding. 

Do you agree, Dr. Felmy, that especially at a time when we 

might be in a national energy emergency that there should be an 

explicit statutory ban on manipulative practices in wholesale petroleum markets? 

Mr. FELMY. I am not an attorney, Mr. Chairman, so I cannot 

comment beyond just I believe the understanding of the law is that 

you already have many provisions in place to deal with manipulation under the regulatory authority of the Commodities Future 

Trading Commission and the Federal Trade Commission. 

Chairman MARKEY. Do you agree that it should be illegal to 

knowingly submit false information about wholesale petroleum to 

the Federal Trade Commission? 

Mr. FELMY. I—again, Mr. Chairman, I am not an attorney. But 

my understanding is that you already have those provisions in 

place. You have had prosecutions to that effect for false submitting 

of data to various entities. 


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Chairman MARKEY. Let me ask the other witnesses quickly if 

each of you could tell us what it would mean to each of you briefly 

if the price of gasoline moved over $4 a gallon. Very briefly. 

Mr. Thomas. 

Mr. THOMAS. The number of students riding school buses would 

dramatically increase, but the problem would be that we would not 

be able to afford to deliver that bus service because that money 

would be taken out of the education. 

Chairman MARKEY. Mr. Mitternight. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. It would require me to definitely raise prices 

to my customers and try to renegotiate contracts. I would have to 

find some way to pass that cost on in order to make any profitability. 

Chairman MARKEY. Mr. Teske. 

Mr. TESKE. At this point in agriculture, we do not have that ability to pass it on. So we are talking about disaster within the agriculture industry. And you are talking about additional subsidies or 

you are talking about some major change within the marketing 

system. 

Chairman MARKEY. Ms. Estes. 

Ms. ESTES. I work for the Federal Government, and I know they 

do not have any money, so I cannot pass it on either. So I would 

say it be closing my doors down. 

Chairman MARKEY. Well, I will say this: It is the goal of the 

speaker to pass legislation that will deal with this issue of price 

gouging. And we intend on doing that this year, very very soon. 

In the first three months of this year ExxonMobil, Chevron, 

ConocoPhillips, Shell and BP collectively reported $29.4 billion in 

profits. 

This Congress in January in one week, the first week, passed 

legislation to reclaim $14 billion in excessive royalties that the oil 

companies had received and created a fund for renewable energy 

and for energy conservation. The White House opposes that. That 

is half of the money that these oil companies made in three 

months. And we are trying to move the country in a different direction, which this Administration continues to fight us. 

The time of the Chair has expired. We will turn and recognize 

the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Sensenbrenner. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. I thank the gentleman for giving me this 

time. 

We live in a market economy. And one of the laws that Congress 

cannot repeal is the law of supply and demand. So if we want the 

price of anything, including petroleum, to go down we have to either increase the supply or reduce the demand or a combination of 

the two. 

I think probably the most telling immediate statistic that we 

have is that our refining capacity is about 17 million barrels a day 

and the demand for gasoline is about 21 million barrels a day. Can 

I ask all five witnesses if they think that we would get immediate 

price relief if we went on a crash program to increase our refining 

capacity so that we are able to have more product on the market, 

starting with you Dr. Felmy? 


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Mr. FELMY. Mr. Sensenbrenner, I would agree that increase in 

capacity would allow more refining of petroleum products for the 

consumer. And as an economist, whenever you increase supply—— 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Okay. I want some brief answers. I got five 

minutes. 

Mr. FELMY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Ms. Estes. 

Ms. ESTES. Absolutely. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Teske. 

Mr. TESKE. I’m not convinced in that itself would do it. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Okay. Mr. Mitternight. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. I think in the long run it would. I do not think 

it would be immediate because the cost of the fabrication or the 

construction of the new refineries would be there. But I think in 

the long run it would definitely bring the cost down. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Thomas. 

Mr. THOMAS. I think it would bring the cost down. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Okay. Now another way to reduce demand 

is to raise the price. In my opening statement I talked about the 

carbon tax that the U.N. is talking about imposing of approximately $100 a ton which translates to about a dollar a gallon of 

gasoline, according to last Saturday’s Washington Post. What do 

you think would happen to your businesses if we passed this carbon tax, starting with your, Mr. Thomas? 

Mr. THOMAS. Well, as long as the school buses remained exempt 

from the Federal taxes that they are now—— 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Okay. That is a good thought. 

How about you, Mr. Mitternight. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. Any increase in taxation, if there is anyway 

to reduce taxes and being from Louisiana we have above and beyond our far share of taxes on everything that we do. So we could 

not—— 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Just come to Wisconsin if you want to see 

how bad taxes are. 

Mr. Teske, how about the dollar a gallon increase because of the 

carbon tax that has been talked about. 

Mr. TESKE. You know, I would not like that for the same reasons 

we said all along, but at the same time if all the polluters had that 

same carbon tax on it, I think we could make dramatic differences. 

Those coal plants do a heck of a lot more than my farm equipment 

does. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Okay. Ms. Estes. 

Ms. ESTES. Bottom line, it would hurt my employees more than 

it would hurt me. Financially at this point I cannot keep giving 

them raises. They are going to go without food. So—— 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Dr. Felmy. 

Mr. FELMY. A carbon tax could have severe negative impacts on 

the economy. API does not have a specific position on many of 

these global policies that are being discussed, but we would certainly welcome the opportunity to talk about all of them. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Okay. Now some people around here, including my dear friend the Chair seemed to think that the magic 

wand is increasing CAFE standards. And I saw the chart that he 

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cause my time is running out, Dr. Felmy, when the CAFE standards kicked in we had a period of double digit interest rates stagflation and then followed by a recession. How much of the reduced 

imports do you think were caused by economic factors other than 

the increase in the CAFE standards? 

Mr. FELMY. Mr. Ranking Member, I have not done an analytical 

study but there is no question there were three broad factors that 

caused the reduction in demand. 

CAFE standards could have had an impact. 

We also had high prices. We had $3.22 per gallon in 1981 in today’s dollars for gasoline. 

And finally economic activity slowed down and recession all had 

significant impacts. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Okay. So it would be your considered judgment that it was not exclusively the raising of the CAFE standards 

that caused the reduction in our percentage of oil that we imported 

from overseas? 

Mr. FELMY. That would be my judgment, sir. 

Mr. SENSENBRENNER. I thank the Chair. 

And I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Oregon, Mr. 

Blumenauer. 

Mr. BLUMENAUER. Thank you. 

And I, Mr. Chairman, would like to thank you and the staff of 

assembling I think a very useful panel. I thought the range of experience that was given in real life, putting a face on this, was extraordinarily helpful. And I appreciate what we have heard. 

I am particularly want to, just if I could, Mr. Teske, you had 

given a hint there, you talked about the carbon tax or some sort 

of carbon system. I mean I think most people agree the world is 

moving in this direction. We have got ten northeastern states that 

are doing it, most of the business community understand that there 

will be some carbon constraint. 

You hinted at something. Would it make a difference to you or 

any of the panel members if there was some sort of carbon constraint in terms of what happened to it? If it was used to be able 

to help give you the type of energy technology that you want? If 

it was used to defray the high costs that some particularly lower 

income people were contending with? If it was used to offset the 

costs, for example in some cases, of more energy efficient equipment or technology? Does that make a difference to you in terms 

of how this money is used? Are there ways that it could be used 

that it would make a difference to how you do business? 

Mr. TESKE. That is kind of an interesting concept. As I kind of 

hinted at there, I do not like new taxes but we have to take environmental responsibility. My belief is that global warming is true, 

and so where do we take those steps. And so I was having this discussion with a close friend that I have a lot of respect in recently, 

and we were talking about the current marketing structure and 

could we address increased fuel costs alone to reduce demand. And 

both of us did not think that marketplace would allow that flow 

through to happen so the general economies could flow. 


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And so about the only we are going to have to do it is with some 

type of Federal Government interaction. And whether that is a carbon tax or something else, I do not know what the proper structure 

for that is. But I do not think the ‘‘free marketplace’’ that we have 

now is going to absorb that and pass that through the system. And 

so we would have devastated businesses and economies all around 

the country with trying to do it with just increased gas prices 

alone. 

If the polluters that were building this carbon problem were 

taxed equally across the board, I would have a hard time arguing 

with that. 

Mr. BLUMENAUER. Let me just say, I do not want to catch any 

of unawares, but I want to plant the seed and invite you to think 

about ways that it might make a difference to you. 

And I would like to follow up, Mr. Teske, with one thing that you 

talked about in terms of the farm legislation. Because one of the 

things that this Committee is looking at, we are not originating 

legislation per se, but we are looking at big concepts. We do have 

a farm bill that is coming along that has lots of opportunities to 

deal with rural redevelopment, to deal with—there will be an energy title in it. To deal with things from wind to solar to biomass 

where Federal farm policy might be able to reduce the carbon footprint of American agriculture and help farmers do that. And I wondered if you had any thoughts about what the farm bill might do 

to help in your situation with the energy question? 

Oops. I realized I have less than a minute, and that is not fair 

either. I will follow up with you personally on that. 

I just wanted to make one point. We talked about refining capacity, Mr. Chairman. It just seems to me that there is a pretty clear 

record that there were opportunities for—there has only been one 

refinery proposal, to my knowledge, in the last 30 years. One in 

Yuma. Since the early 1990s it has received all of its environmental permits, but could not get financing because nobody wanted 

to invest in it. And the oil companies had lots of money. It was not 

that they did not have money to invest. It seems to me that there 

were bets made that they could make money without increasing refining capacity. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman MARKEY. Okay. The Gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Shadegg 

for seven minutes. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 

holding this hearing. 

I do not really want to get into the issue in great depth, but I 

want to begin by asking unanimous consent to put into the record 

a letter from Arizona Clean Fuels Yuma, which goes into the issue 

raised by the Gentleman from Oregon just a moment ago. Arizona 

Clean Fuels Yuma, I believe, is very close to having its financing. 

The letter includes with it a lengthy analysis of the delays in the 

construction project. The Gentlemen is correct, I think that is the 

only effort to get a new refinery on line. They detail at length the 

regulatory impediments to that. And I would put that in the 

record, if I might. 


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Chairman MARKEY. Without objection, it will be included in the 

record. 

Mr. SHADEGG. I want to thank the panel for their testimony. I 

think it is very interesting. It actually reminds me of a number of 

conversations with my wife over what happens at this time of year, 

and I will go into that in just a moment. 

I do want to follow up on a line of questioning that Mr. Sensenbrenner had. He asked you about a carbon tax and were a carbon 

tax to add a dollar to the cost of fuel, what that would do in terms 

of having an impact on you. 

Another idea that is floating out there, and it has been proposed 

by a lot of thoughtful people, and has been implemented in part in 

Europe is the idea of a cap and trade program. That is we would 

set a cap on carbon emissions and then you would buy and sell 

trading permits. Europe has implemented such a cap and trade 

system, not by the way for mobile sources but for fixed courses of 

carbon. And it has caused an increase in the cost of energy of between 16 and 25 percent. Let us assume it is half of that, an increase of eight percent or ten percent. 

Each of you expressed concern about a carbon tax in terms of 

driving up the cost of fuel. I assume your thoughts about an increase in cost would be the same if it were as a result of the imposition of a cap and trade system? Mr. Thomas, would you—— 

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, the result would be the same. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. Yes. Any increase in taxation does the same 

thing. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Teske. 

Mr. TESKE. I believe I have addressed that issue. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Fair enough. 

Ms. Estes. 

Ms. ESTES. I am not sure if the increased tax of a $1.00 is going 

to make a difference. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Felmy. 

Mr. FELMY. If implemented in the same technique as using a carbon tax, then you would likely have the same impacts. The issue 

with cap and trade is allowances and a whole host of much more 

complicating factors that can distort the system significantly. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Yes. One of my concerns is that in Europe it appears to have added cost without having achieved the environmental goal. And that would be one of my concerns. 

Let me ask another concern, because I am curious about this. I 

personally favor if you are going to impose a cost to, for example, 

reduce carbon emissions, I would rather have it be a visible cost. 

I have a little bit of concern that if it were in a cap and trade as 

opposed to a carbon tax, it would be buried and people would not 

be able to see it. I hope you all understand what I am saying. 

If there is going to be a cost to reduce carbon in our atmosphere, 

would you rather it be clearly set out and visible so we know what 

that cost is, or does that not matter and if it were buried in a cap 

and trade system, that would be just as well with you? Mr. Felmy. 

Mr. FELMY. API only has a position that we would like all the 

different options to be discussed. These are very complicated systems to put in place. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Fair enough. 


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Ms. ESTES. It is a question of whether you would see it or not 

or have it varied? 

Ms. ESTES. I would rather see it. And I think the American people, right now one of the big things I saw is we do not have any 

trust. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Right. 

Ms. ESTES. So I would rather see it. I believe they need to see 

it. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Fair enough. 

Mr. Teske. 

Mr. TESKE. I would like to see it. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Mitternight. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. I agree. I would want to know where it is 

going. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Thomas, I had the impression that most 

school buses run on diesel, but maybe I am wrong about that. 

Mr. THOMAS. You are correct. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Okay. And so your fleet would be diesel fleet. And 

when we are talking generally gasoline prices, you are talking 

about diesel prices having gone up the same, is that what you are 

saying? 

Mr. THOMAS. Actually more. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Diesel prices have gone up more? 

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, they have. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Have you taken a look at natural gas as a fuel for 

your fleet? 

Mr. THOMAS. Yes. Actually the industry has. And the net effect 

is that we believe that clean diesel has the best effect overall on 

both the supply for the fleet and not only the global impact, the 

emissions impact, but the availability to school districts. 

Mr. SHADEGG. There are developments in clean diesel which dramatic recent development making it even cleaner than natural gas, 

is that correct? 

Mr. THOMAS. It actually almost reduces all the emissions that we 

consider toxic. 

Mr. SHADEGG. So you would—— 

Mr. THOMAS. Clean diesel. 

Mr. SHADEGG. That leads me to kind of a broad question. Would 

you all agree that we need to keep a broad diversity in our fuels, 

that is gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, liquid to gas, coal liquid to gas? 

Is a broad diversity something you think will help hold down costs 

for down the line? 

Mr. THOMAS. Well, I think it would. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Mitternight. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. I would think it would, again as long as it is 

adaptable to a small business’ fleet of vehicles that you can adapt 

easily. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Teske. 

Mr. TESKE. In the short term yes, in the long term I think we 

will have something come out a clear winner that is a lot better 

than petroleum. Hopefully, hydrogen or something like that. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Well, yes. I am not limiting this to petroleum, by 

any means. 

Ms. Estes. 


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Ms. ESTES. Yes, I definitely agree that you need to look at the 

wider spectrum. There are other alternatives out there. You have 

mentioned Europe is using a nuclear power system—— 

Mr. SHADEGG. I appreciate that. We will look into it. 

Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Felmy. 

Mr. FELMY. Going forward we will need all sources of energy to 

increase, we will need energy efficient and we will need more infrastructure. 

Mr. SHADEGG. My time is just about expired. 

You said, Dr. Felmy, that there is a large supply drawdown required by regulations. My wife says why do the gas prices go up 

at this time of year every year. And she says why—you said summer fuel is more expensive. Is the Government causing by either 

regulation or by prescription of a formula gasoline causing prices 

to go up at this particular time of year? 

And with that, I yield. 

Mr. FELMY. The regulations require summer blend gasoline starting May 1st, unless you are in California, and then it is March 1st, 

April 1st, May 1st. So it is a much more complicated system. 

You need cleaner burning gasoline that has less vaporative properties, and that is more expensive to produce. 

Mr. SHADEGG. I am done. I yield. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentleman’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentlelady from California, Ms. Solis. 

Ms. SOLIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I would like to make a comment directed to Mr. Felmy. While I 

appreciate your testimony on the oil and natural gas industry 

claiming that they understand the frustrations of our consumers, 

I tend to question that appreciation of your testimony and what I 

have read in your statement. 

First you go to great length to defend the industry profits and 

criticize efforts to protect consumer gauging. And you left out several details, some of which I would like to mention. 

In April of 2004 Bloomberg New Service reported that 

ExxonMobil refining profit rose 39 percent. And we heard earlier 

from our Chairman regarding that. They actually made a profit of 

$1 billion. 

ConocoPhillips in their first quarter 2004 report stated that the 

U.S. refining margin increased almost 31 percent and that most of 

their overall corporate earnings came from the refining side of the 

business. 

And another report released in 2005 shortly before Hurricane 

Katrina hit showed that in August of 2005 refinery margins rose 

54 percent and that those profit margins were responsible for 60 

percent of the increased cost of fuel at the pump. 

Other studies estimated that as much as two-thirds of the increased cost of gas at the pump is a direct result of profit margins 

of refiners. 

And immediately after Hurricane Katrina Murphy Oil, a company with refineries impacted by the Gulf Coast, lamented the fact 

that it had refineries off line because it is missing out ‘‘record margins.’’ 

And in your written testimony you also contend that Congress 

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tion. However, you leave out critical information about the lands 

which are available for leasing upon which there is no current production. In 2003 the Bureau of Land Management reported that 85 

percent of the oil and 88 percent of the proven gas on Federal lands 

in Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Montana and Wyoming were available for leasing and development. Of those areas which are currently available offshore, only 35 percent are currently in production. 

It is disingenuous in my opinion to argue that your industry 

needs greater access when it is not currently producing in areas already available. 

Do you have a comment? 

Mr. FELMY. There are several points you brought you, Congresswoman. 

First in terms of access. While you may have access for leasing, 

there are a whole host of other restrictions postly that can prevent 

you from actually exploring. But irrespective of that, the ability to 

produce more oil and gas anywhere will increase supplies for whatever reason and potentially help consumers. 

Now in terms of the refinery situation, this is a fundamental 

focus of markets at work. Refining margins go up, they go down. 

They were very low at the beginning of the year. They increased 

subsequently from that. But these are forces of supply and demand 

that effect the prices of crude oil, the prices of natural gas and ultimately refining margins. And I would also like to point out those 

are margins and not necessarily profits. Because the margins themselves are gross margins for which you then have to deduct all the 

costs. And it is very difficult to see what happens. 

In the first quarter, for example, if you also put it in context, the 

oil industry in terms of earnings on the dollar made 9.1 cents on 

a dollar. Comparing that to all of manufacturing for 2006, which 

is the only data we have available right now. We do not have the 

first quarter. You had, taking out the car companies which of 

course they have had their struggles, the average profit earnings 

margin for manufacturing industries was 9.5 cents on a dollar. 

So what we have is a situation where—— 

Ms. SOLIS. I would also like to hear from our other witnesses, if 

possible. Thank you. 

Mr. FELMY. Okay. Thank you. 

Ms. SOLIS. I think I got the gist of your comment. 

If we could start with Mr. Thomas, briefly. 

Mr. THOMAS. I am going to pass. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. I am not a 100 percent sure of the question. 

Can you briefly—— 

Ms. SOLIS. More of a comment. I mean what I was saying that 

actually we are finding that there are lands available to conduct 

and produce, provide for more production but there really has not 

been an effort on the part of the oil corporations or companies to 

do that. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. Right. 

Ms. SOLIS. You heard a little bit of that from one of our colleagues who left, Mr. Blumenauer, who said that the last refinery 

or proposed permit that was actually issued was almost, what? 

Several years ago. And the blame or attempted blame was that the 


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regulations were onerous that kept the production from occurring 

from that facility coming out in play. That is not necessarily true, 

and that is what we are trying to get to. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. Just a brief comment. Again, being from Louisiana where we have our fair share of offshore drilling going on, 

there is a serious problem. There is still lots of area to further development offshore. But there are a lot of State regulations as well 

as Federal regulations. And as much as we trying to salvage our 

coast, there are a lot of problems in developing that area. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentlelady’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from Oregon. 

Mr. WALDEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to thank our witnesses today. I have enjoyed your comments and your testimony. 

For more than 21 years I have also been a small business owner 

with my wife. We are in the radio business. So our transmitters 

run electricity, not oil, which is a good thing at least unless there 

is a power outage, then they run on LP gas. 

So I am concerned about the economy, obviously. I understand, 

Ms. Estes, what you are saying and Mr. Mitternight and others 

about what it is like to make a payroll and take care of the people 

that work for you. It is not easy and it is always challenged, and 

especially when you have uncontrollable costs. And the radio business in small markets, very reflective of the local economy. And we 

cannot really push our costs up to somebody else either. And so it 

is a challenge. 

With that, let me just ask you Mr. Teske recommended a national energy portfolio standard, right? A requirement, a mandate 

that says every power company has to have a certain percentage 

of renewal energy in their portfolio, the percentage of which we 

might all argue about. There are some who would say that in some 

regions of the country that will drive up the cost of energy because 

you will be forced to perhaps buy a renewable energy source that 

is more expensive than what you are today getting. 

So, Ms. Estes, you have raised the question about additional 

costs in your business. Is that direction from the Government a 

mandate on what your local supplier has to buy, does that effect 

you if your price goes up? 

Ms. ESTES. Yes, it effects me. It effects me through the—— 

Mr. WALDEN. Can you move that mike a little closer. That is why 

it cuts out on you. 

Ms. ESTES. Sorry about that. Yes, it effects me. It not only effects 

me through my employees, it effects me through the supplies, 

through the materials; pretty much everything. 

Do I believe that we need to mandate and add more alternatives? 

Absolutely. Is it going to cost us? Yes, but in the long run, is it not 

going to save us? 

Mr. WALDEN. Well, it might. And I guess—see, I come at it the 

other way, which I would rather have an incentive system. And in 

the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which some of us on this Committee 

were on the other Committee that wrote that and it is now law, 

that created the incentives for example that are driving the production of ethanol by putting a $1 a gallon tax credit there, that are 

giving .51 cent a gallon credit for agrobiodiesel development. And 


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I assume those who are in agriculture have seen some benefit if 

you are on the growing end of it. 

I will tell you the story about my cattle rancher. It cost him $100,000 a year more to finish off his herd because of the increased 

cost of corn. So he did not think much of ethanol out in Oregon, 

because we are not raising a lot of corn out in Oregon, so I mean 

it has that effect. 

But that Energy Policy Act we passed and put into law also has 

the incentives, I think it is 1.9 cent a kilowatt hour to encourage 

production of wind energy, geothermal energy, solar energy. Half 

that credit for woody biomass. 

So I kind of come at that I would rather incent the market to 

go rather than arbitrarily demand and mandate and drive your 

costs up and your costs. That is my own personal preference, but 

I do not know. Maybe you wanted the mandated costs from here. 

We can pick 20 percent of all your power has to be green and let 

you figure out why. But there are members of this Committee that 

pose wind generation off their coasts. 

Dr. Felmy, we talk about trying to be energy independent. Can 

you speak to the reserves that are in the United States in the 

lower 48 and Alaska of what that could do if we could access those 

reserves in terms of energy independence? 

Mr. FELMY. In terms of undiscovered resources that if we could 

have access to them, they could do a substantial amount toward reducing imports. It is in excess, I believe, of a 100 billion barrels of 

oil that could be available for developing that would go a long way 

to helping reduce our import dependence. 

Mr. WALDEN. I want to go to the issue of refinery capacity. Because I gassed up in Brothers, Oregon, which none of you should 

ever know about necessarily because it is a very small little burg 

on the way between Burns and Bend and there is one pump and 

a diesel pump. And it was like 3.99 a gallon, if my eyesight was 

right. And they would sell me $15 worth because it is that kind of 

limited capacity, but it got me to the next town where I could gas 

up fully for $3.35. 

The point is, though, I talked to a group of cattlemen that were 

there. And they are concerned about this price because what it 

takes to run their pickups and haul their horses and cows and all. 

And they asked me about refinery capacity. And so my colleagues 

have raised this issue as well, and I am concerned. Because I know 

your capacity has increased. Even though the number of refineries 

has been reduced, the refinery capacity itself through new technology has increased, correct? 

Mr. FELMY. That is correct. 

Mr. WALDEN. How many companies own the refineries, do you 

know? How consolidated is that market? 

Mr. FELMY. Well, if you look at the top eight refiners, I have 

looked at this in comparing it to Commerce Department Census 

Bureau data, the share of total refining capacity is about twothirds. And that compares to other industries that are large consumer products industries which have more concentration of ownership than the refining industry. 

So it does not look to me as though it is an overly concentrated. 

And I firmly believe it is a highly competitive industry. 


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Mr. WALDEN. If it is highly competitive, the profit margins are 

fairly significant even though the percentage, I understand, is 9 

percent. But many industries, 9 percent is not a bad margin to 

have. Why is it we are not seeing more investors build refineries? 

I mean, we are on the bubble, I mean that is my sense after several years on these committees. The big storm in Louisiana that 

knocks out a couple of refineries or a fire here, or a breakdown 

there, prices go through the roof all of a sudden, you know. Why 

are we not seeing more—do I not have another minute to finish up 

here? Yes. 

Why are we not seeing more refineries being constructed? 

Mr. FELMY. Well, in terms of new refineries, I think Congressman Shadegg pointed out the difficulties of Arizona Clean Fuels in 

terms of all the hurdles they have to face. But the industry has expanded the refinery capacity. The equivalent of a new refinery 

every year for the last ten years within the gates, and their announcements indicate that you could see, as I believe and my testimony said, an additional equivalent of eight more refineries. But 

it is a cyclical business. The returns have not been good. And ultimately if you want to invest, say, $2 or $3 billion in a new refinery, 

you have to assure returns to your shareholders. 

Mr. WALDEN. And is supply of the feedstock an issue domestically to get it refined or do you have enough of the raw product 

coming in? 

Mr. FELMY. Well, worldwide markets are fairly efficient so you 

are able to usually attract imported crude oil to be able to refine 

it into petroleum products. But it is more expensive, as my testimony indicated. 

Ms. SOLIS [presiding]. Time is up. Thank you. 

Mr. WALDEN. My time has expired. Thank you very much. 

Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. SOLIS [presiding]. Thank you. 

I would like to recognize Congressman Cleaver for seven minutes. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

I thank all of you for being here. Thank you, Mr. Thomas, for 

being here. I am very much interested in school bus issues. And I 

look—I am from Kansas City, Missouri. I have looked at the fleet 

of school buses and I know why they are yellow. We used to have 

red fire trucks and we did a study and it showed that yellow was 

much better seen. 

But we have got to improve, I think, the look of the buses, which 

is secondary to my real concern, which is what do you think the 

capacity of school districts would be if by 2017 school buses were 

required to have a fleet of biodiesel buses or hybrids? It is a ten 

or 15 year period for the school districts to ramp up and get fuel 

efficient vehicles? 

Mr. THOMAS. The impact, because of the hybrids that we have 

available now, IC Corporation has a hybrid out there that is being 

tested in several states and the results are dramatic. There is a 

dramatic decrease in the emissions, almost 90 percent and there is 

a dramatic increase in its fuel efficiency, the miles per gallon would 

get. If the Federal Government would mandate that, certainly the 

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sponded with clean diesel, and this is the first year we have had 

to outfit the whole fleet with clean diesel engines, we would comply. So the impact, I think, would be dramatic and positive. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you. 

Mr. Felmy, I am one of the co-sponsors of the Federal Price 

Gouging Prevention Act that was mentioned earlier. And I agree 

with you that there may be some difficulty in defining unconscionably excessive. I think I could do it. But you are in that industry. 

Could you give me just your belief or figure for unconscionably excessive movement of gasoline prices? 

Mr. FELMY. Congressman, as an economist I cannot do it. What 

we have seen over repeated increases in prices, whether it be Hurricane Katrina or Rita or what we have experienced this year, is 

markets at work. And so I would be very concerned that if you 

were to put in an artificial definition, however crafted, that it could 

have the unintended consequence especially when combined with 

civil, criminal penalties, jail time and so on, of traumatizing the 

market at a point where you actually need movements of supplies, 

you need to be able to attract imports, you need to be able to 

bring—you need a demand restraint and so on. I would just be very 

concerned that this could set us back to the price controls of the 

’70s, which were an unfortunate episode we experienced. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Well, this Act would not prosecute anyone for the 

normal natural movement of prices. The market will deal with 

that. But what this legislation would deal with is situations where 

it appears based on either natural disasters or other events that 

may not have had an impact on the industry, and yet the prices 

would soar. 

And as members of Congress, I think you would agree that it is 

difficult to explain to the constituents, or I would like for you to 

give me information on how to do it when you go home and people 

talk to at your neighborhood meetings about a $400 million bonus 

for an executive for MobilExxon, Lee Raymond. And then they go 

and look—in Kansas City the average price of gasoline today is like 

$2.92 and rising. So when you look at Raymond getting $400 million as a retirement benefit, the people at my town hall meetings 

are not interested in me saying well the market is just kind of taking care of things and do not worry about. I mean you can, or at 

least I hope, understand that people are angry out here. And someone mentioned it earlier, there was a $14 billion tax cut for the oil 

industry. And then they recorded the highest profits in the history 

of the planet. 

And so, you know, I am not a bomb thrower, you know. I want 

to be able to sit down and have an intelligent discussion. The public is not inclined to be that patient right now. They are angry, and 

so can you help me? 

Mr. FELMY. Well, Congressman, we clearly know the frustrations 

of consumers. I cannot comment on any individual company’s compensation policies. But if you look at the size of that in the context 

of a multi hundred billion dollar corporation, it really is insignificant in the scheme of things. 

Mr. CLEAVER. That will not work. I can tell you now, that will 

not work out on Blue Ridge Boulevard in Kansas City. So give me 

something else. 


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I mean, these people are having difficulty earning $13 an hour 

or, you know, they are working all day and you start saying well 

that is not much money in the context of things. 

Mr. FELMY. And, Congressman, I understand that. But one has 

to put it in proper context, just as you need to put the overall earnings of the industry in proper context. That they are consistent 

with the earnings, as I mentioned earlier, with manufacturing industries. And we understand the frustrations of consumers. 

Ms. SOLIS [presiding]. Unfortunately time has expired. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

Ms. SOLIS [presiding]. I would like to recognize Congressman 

Sullivan for five minutes. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

And in my opening statement I wanted to submit these two letters into the record, and I ask unanimous consent to do it. I didn’t 

ask unanimous consent earlier. 

Ms. SOLIS [presiding]. Without objection. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you. 

You know, you hear a lot about all this stuff. And I agree with 

you. I think that compensation is big and I do think saying that, 

you know, it is insignificant is a good answer. It does not work, 

does it, out there? But companies do what they do and we cannot 

control that. 

But, you know, I was going to ask I guess Mr. Felmy, you know 

we have gas prices are high, higher than usual, people are going 

to experience that probably more so this summer. And, you know, 

well I guess I will ask you if we had more refineries, do you think 

that would help the prices? 

Mr. FELMY. I think that anytime you are able to increase the 

supply of any product, whether it be gasoline or whether it be any 

other product, you help the market conditions. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. And do you think Katrina, because of the geographical location—we did not have much geographical diversity on 

our refineries in this country. Really, a lot of them—I guess 40 percent or so are down in that area that was effected by Katrina and 

Rita. Did that have any impact on price, do you think, as an economist? 

Mr. FELMY. Well, as an economist the industry took a beating 

from refining capacity shutdown, 25⁄30 percent of capacity, pipelines 

were shutdown, import facilities were shutdown, production, complete production in the Gulf of Mexico was shutdown. We had a 

real supply hit of all different dimensions. At the same time you 

had increased demand leading into the Labor Day holiday. 

So there is no question we took a hit from both supply and demand and what you saw, markets respond as a result. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. You, sir, or anyone here, does anyone have any 

evidence, or the FTC or anybody have any evidence of any price 

gouging that occurred after Hurricane Rita and Katrina? Is there 

anything that we can point to that is overwhelming evidence that 

states that there absolutely was price gouging and collusion and 

price fixing? Does anyone have anything they can say? 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. I can answer it from my personal experience. 

Prices escalated somewhat immediately thereafter, but the State 

Attorney General and the State put a price cap so that no prices 


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could be increased. You know, they froze prices where they were 

to try to protect people. 

It was not necessarily a price problem as much as an availability. 

You know, there were no places to—— 

Mr. SULLIVAN. So, Mitternight, you have experienced a great 

deal of adversity down there during all that. I heard you talking 

about it and it was terrible and prices were high. But was anybody 

convicted of price gouging down there? 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. There may have been one or two isolated instances in some of the rural areas around the city. But in general, 

no. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. But probably if that happened, it was like an 

independent guy? 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. Correct. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. Not like ExxonMobil or anybody with a concerted 

effort to fix prices? 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. No. In fact in most cases some of the larger 

corporations, the Shell and those kind of places worked diligently 

to try to get a few isolated stations open to provide a supply. And 

they were working with the emergency relief people also and providing the fuel for them. 

Ms. CLARKE. Okay. Yes, I know you have been through a lot 

down there. 

Dr. Felmy, have you heard of anything, any evidence by the FTC, 

any evidence by anybody, State, law enforcement agency of conviction or suspicion or anything of any price fixing or gouging that has 

occurred in the United States of America? 

Mr. FELMY. In terms of any type of illegal activity beyond the 

subjected price gauging, no. I mean, I think there probably were a 

handful of instances in a few states where individual owners, perhaps, exercised poor judgment in terms of the results. But it certainly was not widespread. And that is my recollection from what 

the discussion was. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. So I guess it is safe to say, though, we can say 

today in this hearing that there has never been evidence of any 

widespread price fixing or price gouging that has occurred in the 

United States of America through any of these companies with an 

organized effort to do that? Would that be safe to say? Everybody? 

Mr. Thomas, would you say? 

Mr. THOMAS. I think that would be safe to say? 

Mr. SULLIVAN. Mr. Mitternight. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. Not to my knowledge, no. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. Mr. Teske. 

Mr. TESKE. I am just a cynical old redneck from Kansas. I do not 

believe a bit of crap that comes out of the petroleum industry. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. All right. 

Mr. TESKE. But that is just my opinion. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. And it is America. You can say that, sir. 

Ms. Estes. 

Ms. ESTES. I was able to read both sides of it. And you asked if 

anyone brought literature. Yes, I did. And I brought it about that 

thick. And to go through that information, it goes both ways. For 

every article that says that there was, there is an article that says 


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they are wrong. For every article that says there is, there is an article that says it is something else. 

So for me to determine what is right, I cannot tell you. I would 

need more than four days. 

Ms. SOLIS [presiding]. Unfortunately, time has expired. 

Thank you. 

Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you. 

Ms. SOLIS [presiding]. I would like to recognize Congresswoman 

Herseth Sandlin for five minutes. 

Ms. SANDLIN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

Thank you all for your testimony today. 

And before I pose some additional questions on this refining capacity issue, I do want to just clarify a few things. 

My friend Mr. Walden from Oregon and I see eye-to-eye on a lot 

of things, but I do want to sort of clarify what I viewed as important in the Energy Policy Act of 2005. The incentives that Mr. Walden referred to in terms of the dollar per gallon for biodiesel and 

the 51 cent credit on ethanol, those have been around for over 20 

years, these incentives. It was the renewable fuel standard as a 

mandate that in my opinion caused the mix of incentives, existing 

incentives, and expanding those, extending them in the Energy Policy Act and the mandate creating the market, imposing the competition that for years was not there and I think attributes perhaps, Mr. Teske, to some of what we know the attitude is farm 

country because of our difficulty of getting a market for ethanol for 

a long time until we had that mandate. And since we have had 

that mandate we have seen start-up companies take off in the investment of new technologies to make the production process even 

more efficient. Not just for corn ethanol, but increasingly cellulosic 

ethanol and the potential that has. And that leads me to this refining capacity issue because we are focusing on refining capacity only 

for fossil fuels and petroleum products. 

But, Mr. Felmy, would you agree that along Mr. Sullivan’s question, because you did take this body blow, right, in terms of your 

imports, port of entry, the refining capacity being concentrated in 

a certain geographic region of the country. That it is not just increasing the supply of the product, it is having a decentralized and 

geographically diverse distribution system and where the refining 

capacity would exist? 

Mr. FELMY. I am not quite sure. Are you asking that it would be 

preferable to have a geographical dispersed capacity on that? 

Ms. SANDLIN. Yes. Would that not in terms of how the market— 

would the market function more effectively in terms of insulating 

us from those types of body blows if geographically our refining capacity either for petroleum products or refining capacity in biorefineries throughout rural American would assist in insulating us from 

those types of price fluctuations? 

Mr. FELMY. Well, it would likely help in terms of specific disasters, such as hurricanes which are, of course, concentrated in the 

Gulf of Mexico. There is, however, a trade off with costs that when 

you get to a highly dispersed level of production, it can increase 

your distribution costs. So there is somewhat of a trade off. But 

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cated in one area that is vulnerable to hurricanes, that of course 

can help in terms of more supply reliability. 

Ms. SANDLIN. But if highly dispersed and used more locally increased with flux-fuel vehicles, that type of infrastructure, that 

would assist consumers as well, correct? 

Mr. FELMY. That would certainly lower the transportation costs 

versus long distance shipping, which can be quite expensive ethanol because you cannot include it in pipelines. 

Ms. SANDLIN. And you had mentioned that over the years the industry has expanded existing refineries equivalent to one new refinery, but in doing so has that not enhanced the degree of concentration geographically of where our refining capacity exists? 

Mr. FELMY. Yes. You are expanding the existing within the existing fences. And so if you have a concentration there, then of course 

it increases more of that capacity in a area. And that is unfortunate, but it is the only place we can locate the refineries right now. 

Ms. SANDLIN. But is it not also true that while the industry may 

have expanded in certain existing refineries, there were a number 

of mergers throughout the 1990s that led to closures of some existing refineries? Is that true? 

Mr. FELMY. I do not think so much the mergers led to closures 

of refineries. I think what you saw is divestiture of those refineries 

actually to a whole new class of independent refiners who have gotten much larger. 

So, for example, refiners such as Valero, who were much smaller, 

it picked up assets from these divestitures. And so the concentration impact has gone up since 19—I guess the first date I have is 

’97 from around 49 percent to about 662⁄3 roughly. But that still 

does not put it out of line with other industries in terms of supplying consumers. 

Ms. SANDLIN. No, it does not. But some of us share the same concerns about other sectors and industries like the livestock industry 

and the concentration there when we do not have the kind of competition when you have that type of concentration develop and the 

impact that that ultimately has on prices for producers, for consumers and on down the line. 

I see my time is up. So I will yield back any remaining time. I 

do not have it. So thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman MARKEY. Thank you. The Gentlelady’s time has expired. 

The Gentlelady from Tennessee, Ms. Blackburn, is recognized for 

five minutes. 

Ms. BLACKBURN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Mitternight, I know a little bit about that area where you 

are from. I have a dad who, 81 years old, just sold his oil filled 

equipment business, worked in it every day of his life up until recently down in southern Mississippi. I know Metairie. And I would 

imagine that you would probably agree with me that regulation is 

just choking the business down there. And I imagine you also 

would support one-stop regulation, a one-stop shop for working 

with all these regulatory State and Federal agencies to get these 

refineries up and running? 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. I agree, a thousand percent. There have been 

some negotiations between economic development people in LouVerDate Mar 15 2010 01:36 Jul 23, 2010 Jkt 057316 PO 00000 Frm 00101 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A316.XXX A316

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isiana and some of the foreign countries to try to establish a new 

refinery, the first one in 35 years in the country, so—— 

Ms. BLACKBURN. Right. It would go a long way to solving the 

problem we have. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. It would. Right. 

Ms. BLACKBURN. And it sounds like Mr. Teske and Ms. Estes 

would also like to get rid of a little bit of regulation that hampers 

small business. Most of us small business people would. 

Mr. Mitternight, on the energy expenses fuel cost, what percentage of your total business expense do you give toward fuel cost? 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. It is fluctuating. But right now my energy 

costs are probably 6 to 8 percent of my overall expense. 

Ms. BLACKBURN. Six to 8? 

Ms. Estes, how about you? What is your percentage? 

Ms. ESTES. In the last year—in the last two years, about 1600 

a month. And I have actually had one month—— 

Ms. BLACKBURN. No. I just need a percentage. $1600 a month 

does not really—I mean, there is nothing to balance that against. 

Ms. ESTES. Within 4800 to 7,000. 

Ms. BLACKBURN. That would be helpful. 

You know, you said your employees would like to have a little 

bit of a raise to help offset some of those energy and fuel costs. And 

I think most people in America would like to have that. And I look 

forward to a day when our small businesses can be more taxation 

and regulation free so that they can enjoy that. 

You said you had a seven percent profit margin? 

Ms. ESTES. Yes. 

Ms. BLACKBURN. Okay. That is pretty good, is it not? 

Ms. ESTES. For Federal contracts—— 

Ms. BLACKBURN. I think for most small businesses, you know you 

are running twice the GDP. So that is a pretty good profit margin, 

I would think. So congratulations on having a 7 percent profit margin at the end of the year. Having been a small business person 

you enjoy those years when you do come out ahead. 

Mr. Felmy, I know I am going to run out of time and we are getting ready to have votes in a few minutes. There are others who 

want to ask questions. 

When I am with my constituents in Tennessee and we talk about 

the increase in transportation fuels, the increase in electricity and 

all of these energy costs, people turn around and they look at you 

and they say ‘‘You ought to be able to do something about this.’’ 

The Federal Government has been piling on regulation for years 

and years and years. Federal Government increases our taxes. The 

gas tax goes up, it is not going to the Highway Fund, now they are 

sending over to research global warming. And they do not like that. 

I would love to hear from you as an economist what three or four 

things you feel like we could do that would actually make a difference in the price at the pump and the price that people are paying for energy. Because I think that is part of the frustration. 

You know, we talk about things that need to happen short term, 

mid term, long term. We talk about conservation efforts. We talk 

about incentives. And all of those things, the Energy Act of ’05, 

which has been referenced, did a good bit of that. And that is commendable. But people want to know what we could do that would 


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actually help make that change. And I would love to hear from 

that. And if I run out of time, if you would submit it to me in writing. 

Mr. FELMY. Thank you, Congresswoman. 

Put simply we need to increase supply. That means to increase 

supply of production of oil and gas in our own country, which 

would both stimulate the economy, lower our trade deficit and help 

economic activity. 

We need to streamline regulations so that we can more expeditiously expand refinery capacity or perhaps build a new refinery. 

And we need infrastructure to be put in place, whether it be 

pipelines or power lines, or ports, or terminals, or everything that 

goes to actually getting that fuel to consumers. We are going to 

need more renewable energy, we are going to need more emerging 

energy technology to be able to help and we are going to need more 

energy efficiency. 

So things that would help consumers in terms of more efficient 

vehicles, more efficient houses, more efficient operations will reduce the demand. That combined with increased supply can help 

consumers. 

Ms. SANDLIN. Thank you, sir. 

I yield back. 

Chairman MARKEY. The Gentlelady’s time has expired. 

The Chair recognizes the Gentleman from New York, Mr. Hall 

for five minutes. 

Mr. HALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you for your presence here and your discussion with 

us. I am sorry I missed your opening statements. I was booked in 

another Committee at the same time. Funny how they do that. 

The good news, I wanted to point out, from the latest IPCC report that the Ranking Member mentioned in his opening statement 

is that there are plenty of currently available and affordable technologies, and policies, that can reduce global warming, pollution 

and oil imports. 

As this Committee is already discovering in hearings we have 

held, and Mr. Teske made clear, when it comes to global warming 

the costs of inaction far outweighs the cost of action. Many of the 

smart actions we could take today like raising CAFE standards 

would save consumers money. 

And I wanted to ask Mr. Thomas, you are probably familiar with 

this. My home District, one of the five counties I represent, Westchester County, is running hybrid buses on their bus loops around 

the country. And has there been any discussion that you have 

heard about combining that with if you are running hybrids you 

can certainly run biodiesel hybrids. 

Mr. THOMAS. Yes. 

Mr. HALL. So there you are compounding one new technology 

with another, and it would seem to increase the efficiency or shall 

we say, to lower the demand for petroleum products. 

Mr. THOMAS. Exactly. We are very excited about it as an industry. The IC Corporation has taken the lead on this and as well as 

Westchester County, New York and several other states they have 

introduced the hybrid. And we are excited about the results. 


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The problem is is that the cost of that vehicle is dramatically 

more than the cost of today’s regular old clean diesel school bus. 

So we have to do something about coming up with the up front cost 

to offset the capital expense in order to get the emission and the 

fuel efficiency benefits. 

Mr. HALL. But given the size of the overall yellow school bus 

fleet in the United States, which was amazing when I read about 

it in your written comments, would it not be worth it in your 

mind—— 

Mr. THOMAS. Certainly. 

Mr. HALL [continuing]. If the Government were to incentivize or 

subsidize the up front costs? 

Mr. THOMAS. And the congestion mitigation air quality formula 

funds that come out of DOT would be a perfect avenue to do that. 

Mr. HALL. I am driving an American made hybrid which shuts 

down the motor when you are a standstill. So if a school bus is 

caught at a stop light or in a traffic jam, and suddenly stops pumping out fumes from diesel or biodiesel, that would contribute to air 

quality—— 

Mr. THOMAS. Definitely. 

Mr. HALL [continuing]. As well as reducing global warming. 

Mr. THOMAS. And for every bus that is on the road, you have 50 

cars that are not. 

Mr. HALL. Right. So I just wanted to comment also on a remark 

that was made from a member on the other end of the bench here 

about ‘‘companies do what they do, we cannot control that,’’ I think 

was quote/unquote. The fact is that we do control that. That we 

regulate airlines, we regulate meat packing companies, we recognize all kinds of—you know, when the public interest and health 

or national security are at stake, we do sometimes decide that it 

is in our interest to regulate. 

And I just wanted to ask starting with Dr. Felmy, I guess, about 

the sort of rockets and feathers syndrome that when petroleum 

prices or gas prices at the pump go up, they seem to go up fast. 

And then they seem to drift down more slowly like a feather. My 

constituents are seeing that and talking to me about it. It does not 

seem to follow the price of oil. And, in fact, the gasoline that is already in the ground at a particular gas station, the truck has already come and delivered it, and then you see the guy on his ladder up that night changing the numbers. And I have driven to 

events and come back later the same night and the price was .10 

cents higher. I am just curious why it is also so fast to go up and 

so slow to come down? 

Mr. FELMY. Sometimes it does, sometimes it does not. In some 

cases in the past if you look, you have had perfectly symmetrical 

rises and falls. The public does not always recognize that, though. 

They tend to have a very visile response to the price increases, but 

as they come down and economic studies have verified this, you 

tend to have less shopping behavior, less discipline on the market 

and so you sometimes see prices. 

Ultimately it really is a function of why did the prices go up. If 

crude oil prices went up rapidly and gasoline prices followed and 

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gest why gasoline prices would. Because the cost of producing gasoline is most importantly tied to crude oil costs. 

In terms of the individual gas station owner, 95 percent of the 

stations roughly are owned by independent businessmen who make 

their own decisions about what the price is. They do that as a function of the market for the gasoline based on their local conditions 

and the costs of what they spend it, along with a lot of other things 

that they take into account. Their decision about the price is not 

necessarily tied to what they paid for the gas in the pump. 

Generally we have heard from, for example, the dealer organizations that it is more of a replacement cost that is a challenge for 

them. As an independent businessman if he sees the price going up 

dramatically, has a feeling that the cost of gasoline is going to be 

much higher, then he is concerned about not having the cash flow 

to be able to buy that next tank load of gasoline. 

Mr. HALL. Thank you, Mr. Felmy. 

I am sorry. My time has expired for my other questions. 

I yield back. 

Chairman MARKEY. Okay. The Gentleman’s time has expired. 

What we are going to do now is ask the witnesses if they will 

each give us the one minute they want us to remember about skyrocketing gasoline and oil prices. 

And we thank each of you for testifying here today. And your one minute summation of your views on this looming $4 a gallon gasoline threat to our economy is something we very much appreciate. 

Mr. THOMAS. One minute. 

Mr. THOMAS. Thank you. 

The impression that I would like to leave the Committee with is 

very simple. As gas and diesel prices go up, I hate to say it this 

dramatically, but children are at risk and in many cases when 

school bus service is pulled off the road, actually we have an increase of student injuries and fatalities. That is how dramatic it is 

in my industry. And I would just like to leave you with that impression. 

Chairman MARKEY. Mr. Mitternight. 

Mr. MITTERNIGHT. I would just like to say, as I indicated in my 

written testimony, a 60 percent cost increase in the cost of gasoline 

from December of ’06 to the current time is impossible for me to 

recoup on fix contracts. And it comes right out of the bottom line, 

which impacts salaries and everything else. So it is a dire situation 

for small businesses to compete with. 

Chairman MARKEY. Mr. Teske. 

Mr. TESKE. Thank you. 

As I said earlier, I am pretty cynical about what I hear. There 

has been enormous amounts of—that is going other directions now. 

And I have never seen anybody that has been short of fuel. Everyplace you go to buy gas, they will sell it to you. So I am puzzled. 

I mean, I do not quite understand the concept. 

So my ideal world would be every farmer having his own wind 

turbine where he goes and plugs his tractor in at night and he is 

completely off the grid and off the petroleum. That would be my 

perfect world. 

Thank you. 

Chairman MARKEY. Thank you. 


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Ms. ESTES. I agree. The fact that the firm fixed price, there is 

not much we can do about it. What my concerns are, and the one 

thing I will leave with you, is the American public. The effects that 

it is having on the lower class, they cannot afford any increases. 

And that is my main concern. You are creating anger and poverty. 

Chairman MARKEY. Dr. Felmy. 

Mr. FELMY. The current gasoline situation is clearly a function 

of markets at work. Higher cost to manufacture gasoline, crude oil 

costs, ethanol costs, summer blend fuel that is coming in, marry 

that to market conditions with strong demand for gasoline, a supply challenge because of lower imports. The refiners have responded by producing record amounts of gasoline, but we still have 

a tight market. And it is that movement of the market that allows 

supplies to be able to be diverted where they are needed and does 

not foster gas lines that we have experienced in the past. 

Chairman MARKEY. Thank you, Mr. Felmy, very much. 

All I can tell you is that your testimony was really excellent, and 

especially the ordinary citizens that came here to Washington. I 

mean, it is right out of central casting. You really did a great, great 

job. 

We are committed to answering this question. We have to change 

our behavior here in the United States. We have seen a doubling 

of the price of gasoline over the last ten years. It is unsustainable 

if it goes to $4 a gallon. In other words, the price of not doing something is much, much higher than the price of doing something. It 

has already gone up a buck and a half and it is heading toward 

two and a half bucks that it will have gone up over the last ten 

years. So now we have to change direction. We have to innovate. 

We have to ensure that the automotive sector, that every sector 

changes and that we take the revenues that we have been sending 

into the oil and gas industry and we begin to redirect them towards 

the renewable energies, towards the innovative new technologies 

that can change the direction in this country. That will be our task 

including our goal of passing legislation that outlaws price gauging 

by oil companies in this country, and to do it this year. 

We thank each of you for your testimony. 

With that, this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 4:10 p.m. the Committee was adjourned.] 


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