UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: FDMS No. 1

THE PUERTO RICO POLICE DEPARTMENT FAA-2013-1086 Respondent
Thursday, October 13, 2016

The teleconference convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, Administrative Law Judge

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44332 APPEARANCES:
On Behalf of

**th~** Complainant: CHRISTOPHER R. STEVENSON, ESQ. of: Office of the Regional Counsel, AS0-7 Southern Region Federal Aviation Administration 1701 Columbia Avenue College Park, Georgia 30337 (404) 305-5200
On Behalf of the Respondent: NAZIHRA M. ABDULRAHMAN SOLER, ESQ. BETMAR R. LOPEZ PAGAN, ESQ. of: Puerto Rico Police Department Office of Legal Affairs

(202) 234-4433 P.O. Box 71200 San Juan, Puerto Rico 00936 (787) 783-1234 ex. 3067, 2203

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1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (10:41 a.m.) 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the record 4 in the matter of Puerto Rico Police Department. 5 This is Docket Number FAA-2013-1086. Today is 6 Thursday, October 13, 2016 and the parties have 7 convened for a Rule 16 litigation scheduling 8 conference. 9 I'll note before identifying the 10 parties, that on August 16, 2016, the Court reset 11 the Rule 16 litigation scheduling conference to 12 today's date and time and directed the parties to 13 submit a new Rule 26(f) scheduling/discovery 14 plan. 15 Hereafter, on August, I'm sorry, 16 October 6, 2

### o16, the FAA and the Respondent, 17 Puerto Rico Police Department, filed a joint 18 proposed schedule which the Court has reviewed. 19 Appearing today on behalf of the 20 Federal Aviation Administration, which I'll also 21 refer to by its initials, the FAA, is attorney of 22 record, Mr. Christopher R. Stevenson.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44334 1 On behalf of the Respondent, Puerto 2 Rico Police Department, there are two identified 3 counsels. Ms. Nazihra Abdulrahman Soler and Ms. 4 Betmar Lopez Pagan. Neither counsel has appeared 5 and there's no explanation for their absence. 6 Mr. Stevenson, do you have any 7 information about why the Respondent's counsel 8 has not appeared today? 9 MR. STEVENSON: I do not, Your Honor. 10 As you can see from the joint submission, we did 11 talk last week about what the schedule should be 12 but I don't know why they're not here today. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I'll 14 note that the Court provided ample notice to the 15 Respondent of today's date and time. And we are 16 going to proceed without them. 17 Mr. Stevenson, let me talk a little 18 bit about one or two of these dates because I do 19 have a question for you. And then I want to chat 20 with you about a summary judgement oral argument 21 date, as well as some other matters. 22 But let's talk first about Page 1 of

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1 the two page joint proposed schedule. You 2 indicate on Page 1 a request for, let's see, 3 where do I have that. In March 16, 2017, due 4 date for a submission of supplemental expert 5 witness report. 6 Do you have a due date for the initial 7 expert rebuttal report or is that what you're 8 talking about when you call it a supplemental 9 expert report? 10 I'm just a little unclear because you 11 have a December 8, 2016, mutual exchange date for 12 the initial expert disclosures. 13 Is that intended to be the disclosures 14 of who your experts are or a disclosure of who 15 your experts are and a written report from them? 16 MR. STEVENSON: December 8th, 2016, 17 would be a disclosure of who the experts are and 18 a, either a written report or appropriate 19 disclosure. 20 I suspect that it may the case for, it 21 evolved from a case for the FAA and I suspect it 22 may be the case for the Puerto Rico Police

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44336 1 Department, that we don't have retained experts 2 who have to produce a formal expert report. 3 So it would be the, you know, the less 4 formal disclosure of the contents, but it would 5 be a disclosure of the anticipated testimony of 6 the expert, not simply an identification of the 7 expert. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, great. And 9 then there is a deadline of March 16, 2017, for 10 the exchange or the submission of supplemental 11 expert witness reports. It follows, however, the 12 end of the deposition period for experts. 13 And I wanted to ask a little bit about 14 that because typically your expert rebuttal 15 reports come in before the deposition period 16 closes so that you can ask the expert, if you 17 depose him or her, about that supplemental or 18 rebuttal report. 19 Can you tell me if the parties had 20 considered that when you put together this 21 section? Because I don't want to be in a 22 position where I have the parties deposing an

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44337 1 expert witness, and then getting a supplemental 2 report from the expert after the deposition 3 period closes and be unable to address that with 4 the expert. 5 MR. STEVENSON: Your Honor, this was 6 not something that the Respondent and I had 7 discussed in this particular case. This is a 8 formatting a general scheduling order that, order 9 of events that I have used in a number of cases. 10 And I don't think I had thought about that and it 11 hadn't been raised before. 12 My thoughts in phrasing it like that 13 were that that would be an opportunity for an 14 expert witness to supplement their opinions as 15 necessary once the deposition period was over for 16 the fact witnesses. 17 And so there may be additional 18 development of facts that would cause the expert 19 to modify their opinion. And that was the, as 20 well as responding to the other sides, expert 21 reports. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44338 1 MR. STEVENSON: And that that's what 2 would, the supplemental expert witness report 3 would cover. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, why don't we do 5 this. I'm going to make a suggestion to you. 6 Instead of having their expert supplemental 7 reports after the deposition period is over, 8 let's put that up before the deposition period is 9 finished because you want, I think, you want to 10 give yourself an opportunity to schedule a 11 deposition of a witness, an expert witness, after 12 you've received all potential testimonial facts 13 and opinions from that witness. 14 So would you be willing to consider 15 setting the expert rebuttal or supplemental 16 witness report, say in, I'm just going to throw 17 this out and I need to get my 2017 time, let's 18 say February 15, 2017? 19 And then we can have the deadline for 20 taking depositions March 16, 2017, or March 10? 21 Something along those lines? 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. STEVENSON: I don't believe I have

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1 any problems with that. Let me just verify with 2 my calendar. That, no, I still would not have 3 any problem with that, Your Honor. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let's say 5 February 15, 2017, for the expert rebuttal or 6 supplemental reports. And then a deadline to 7 take deposition to be, say, March 10. And then 8 you still have the March 16, 2107, deadline for 9 requesting general discovery just in case 10 something comes up. 11 And then it looks to me like I'm happy 12 to accept all your other proposed dates. I'm 13 just going to go through and check, check, check. 14 And that means we need to talk about 15 a telephone motion conference for the September 16 2017 period for the potential summary judgement 17 motion and then a hearing schedule in, let's say, 18 early February 2018, for resolution of any 19 remaining matters. 20 Looking at your September 2017 21 calendar, I'm just going to throw out a date or 22 two and then you can tell me if it works for you.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443310 1 Would the week of September lOth, 2017, work for 2 you for a 90 minute telephone conference? 3 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have any 5 preferred day or time during that week that you 6 want to look at? 7 MR. STEVENSON: I am very open on 8 that. I usually have regularly scheduled 9 meetings on well, Monday afternoon, but. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What about Thursday, 11 September 14th at 1:30? Would that work? 12 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, it would, Your 13 Honor. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We'll plan on 15 that and it will be 90 minutes, from 1:30 to 3:00 16 p.m., Eastern Time. And if we don't use all of 17 that time, that's great. We'll end a little 18 early. 19 Let's talk about the hearing time. 20 And I wanted to ask you a couple questions about 21 the complaint itself. 22

(202) 234-4433 It wasn't clear to me how many

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443311 1 violations you're alleging in this particular 2 case, although it was clear that there were three 3 specifically identified dates of airplane 4 operation in violation of certain regulations. 5 And the dates that I picked up from 6 your complaint were November 9, 2010, February 7 10, 2011, and March 3rd, 2011. 8 I was wondering if you are or had, 9 were intending in your complaint to charge three 10 primary violations, or if you are simply looking 11 at asking me to look at so many different 12 regulations you claim were violated. What are 13 you doing here, because it's not clear to me? 14 MR. STEVENSON: Well, the number of 15 rank regulations violated in and of itself does 16 not typically affect the penalty. So we were 17 alleging that there are, there were three flights 18 that would be act of violation and that each of 19 those flights involves the operation of the pilot 20 of the aircraft, as well as the other operational 21 violations. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

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1 MR. STEVENSON: But the number of 2 regulations involved on a particular flight in 3 this case is not something we compounded that the 4 penalty based on. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So essentially 6 in looking at your complaint, there are three 7 acts, each of which has about four counts of 8 regulatory violations, each on a complaint? Is 9 that what I'm looking at? 10 MR. STEVENSON: That is the case for 11 the Part 91 violations. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 13 MR. STEVENSON: The act for the 43.9 14 violation it would, I mean, the actual violation 15 that occurred there would be when the, mainly 16 when the aircraft was approved for a return to 17 service without an NN entry being made. 18 I'll be honest, Your Honor, since 19 there was some significant down time in this case 20 I will have to go back and 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 22 MR. STEVENSON:

-- go over the file

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1 before I could get into the details of

-- 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 3 MR. STEVENSON: how I arranged 4 things. I'm sorry. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I'll need to 6 know at some point so that I can prepare for 7 trial as well. 8 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It may be something 10 that will be addressed if summary judgement 11 motions are filed. But I'll just note for you. 12 It was unclear from the complaint for my 13 purposes, exactly how to look at the complaint 14 and what was being alleged. 15 Okay. That's helpful. So let's talk 16 about the three hearing dates. You have

-- 17 PARTICIPANT: Pardon the interruption. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes? 19 PARTICIPANT: This is Belisa with AT&T 20 teleconferencing. 21 22 Betmar Lopez is trying to join your conference and she's having trouble.

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 Is it all

(202) 234-443314 1 right for me to dial her into your conference? 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 3 PARTICIPANT: Okay. Then I'11 have 4 her for you in a few moments. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 6 PARTICIPANT: Sorry for disturbing. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. I'll note 8 for our record that we just had an interruption 9 from an AT&T conference call operator and it 10 appears that one of the Respondent's co-counsel 11 is going to be connected to the conference 12 shortly. As of this time it's approximately 13 10:55 in the morning, Eastern Time. 14 So Mr. Stevenson, turning back to you. 15 Let's look at our February calendar of 2018 for 16 those three dates. 17 And I'm going to point you to 18 February, the week of February 12, 2018. Do you 19 have any blackout times during that particular 20 week at this time? 21 22

(202)234-4433 MR. STEVENSON: I do not, Your Honor. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 In looking at

(202) 234-443315 1 this particular case, and you may know more about 2 travel to Puerto Rico than I since you're located 3 a little farther south in the hemisphere than I 4 am, but do you know whether or not it's better to 5 schedule for a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or a 6 Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, in terms of plane 7 routes and hotels? 8 MR. STEVENSON: I think that if the 9 hearing went through a Friday morning it may be 10 problematic, depending on what the city fare 11 carrier is. I don't know who the city fare 12 carrier is for between D.C. and San Juan to get a 13 flight out, to get to the airport and get a 14 flight out that afternoon. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 16 MR. STEVENSON: It's a longer flight 17 than one might think. I think even from here 18 it's three or three and a half hours to San Juan. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So probably 20 it's better to schedule it for a Tuesday, 21 Wednesday, Thursday time period with Monday and 22 Friday being flight time?

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1 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, then 3 turning back to you, in looking at the week of 4 February 12, 2018, does that look like a viable 5 week for your client? 6 MR. STEVENSON: It is a viable week 7 for me. Of course I have not, I will have to 8 confirm that with potential witnesses. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I'm 10 asking you to confirm it for as much as you can. 11 It sounds like you'll be available? 12 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then let's 14 plan on -- 15 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Hello? 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll note that I just 17 heard a hello. May I ask who's speaking? 18 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, hi. This is 19 Betmar Lopez speaking from the police Puerto Rico 20 Police Department. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Ms. Lopez 22 Pagan, as I understand it, you're co-counsel for

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443317 1 the Puerto Rico Police Department? 2 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, correct. I'm 3 here with Ms. Nazihra Abdulrahman. 4 MS. ABDULRAHMAN SOLER: Good morning. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So both co6 counsel are present now? 7 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes. 8 MS. ABDULRAHMAN SOLER: Yes. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And which one of you 10 is lead counsel and, which means, who will be 11 speaking from here on out? 12 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: I will be speaking, 13 Betmar Lopez. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Ms. Lopez, 15 I'm going to ask you to stay on the line after 16 the Court leaves because you'll need to spell 17 your name and your co-counsel's name to the court 18 reporter if he needs it. 19 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Okay. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm going to 21 interrupt the proceedings for a moment and just 22 ask you, Ms. Lopez, why you did not appear at

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443318 1 10:30 this morning which was the start time for 2 this conference? 3 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, we are very 4 sorry. First of all, we thought it was Eastern 5 Time so we thought it was at 11:30. And 6 afterwards we had been trying to communicate but 7 it was not possible until now. So we are very 8 sorry for that. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, it is Eastern 10 Time, at 10:30 in the morning Eastern Time. It 11 started a half hour ago. So is Puerto Rico on a 12 different time zone than Washington D.C.? 13 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Well, we were not 14 sure about that but we researched and we thought 15 that it was 11:30 Eastern Time for the conference 16 But it is not that hour. 17 MR. STEVENSON: Your Honor? 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, Mr. Stevenson? 19 MR. STEVENSON: I apologize. There are 20 a, relative information, if I recall correctly 21 Puerto Rico is not on Eastern Time but I believe 22 that Puerto Rico also does not observe daylight

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443319 1 savings time. 2 So depending on the time of year, 3 Puerto Rico either is or is not consistent with 4 Eastern Time and that, or how far it is different 5 in that. Opposing counsel will be able to clarify 6 that but that might contribute to the confusion 7 about the start time. 8 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, correct. And we 9 are very sorry for that confusion. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What time is it right 11 now in Puerto Rico, Ms. Lopez? 12 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: 11 o'clock. 11:01. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, it's 14 11:01 here as well. 15 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes. Yes, we realize 16 that now. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In the future 18 you're welcome to contact my staff if you have any 19 confusion about time zones and time periods to 20 make sure that you appear on time for any and all 21 future conferences. Do you have any questions 22 about that?

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1 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: No. We don't have 2 any questions and we will do so. Thank you very 3 much. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, then I 5 will simply retask for you and your colleague that 6 I've gone through most of the proposed schedule 7 already with Mr. Stevenson. 8 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Okay. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I've made one or two 10 changes with his consent and I have also scheduled 11 a telephone motion conference for Thursday, 12 September 14, 2017 at 1:30 p.m. for any 13 dispositive motion that either party wants to file 14 for the oral argument for that. 15 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Okay. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then he and I were 17 just talking about trial dates for February, in 18 the year 2018. And since you've just appeared, 19 I'm going to talk to you about your calendar 20 availability for this February time period. 21 22

(202) 234-4433 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Okay. Yes, ma'am. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have any

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234·443321 1 blackout unavailability? And I'm going to ask you 2 to stop and not answer until I'm finished talking 3 because this is being court reported and I can't 4 have more than one person talking at one time. 5 So currently, in looking at your 6 calendar, do you have the week of February 12, 7 2018 open? 8 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: We are very fine. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And you said we are 10 very fine. Does that mean that you are answering 11 yes, I have the week of February 12th, 2018 open? 12 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, we do. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Good. Then I 'm 14 going to schedule this for a hearing on February 15 13, 14, and 15, in 2018. And that will be in the 16 San Juan Puerto Rico area. 17 Ms. Lopez, can you tell me just 18 briefly, do you have any familiarity with the U.S. 19 District Court in San Juan? 20 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: I have familiarity 21 with the proceedings. Is that the question? 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: No. And my question

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443322 1 was rather vague. I'll rephrase it. How familiar 2 are you with the availability of courtrooms at the 3 San Juan 

### u.s. District Courthouse? 4 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: I don't have that 5 information. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then what I 7 will do is I will have my staff check on that, 8 probably in the fall of 2017. And hopefully we'll 9 be able to reserve a courtroom in San Juan. 10 But if we cannot, if they're all booked 11 up, what's the next nearest place to go for a 

### u.s. 12 District courtroom? Do you know? 13 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: I am not sure right 14 now. We could look that information. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, why don't we 16 just put a hold on that and we'll hope that we can 17 get a courtroom available. And if we can't, we 18 can convene and talk about alternate venues. Does 19 that sound reasonable, Mr. Stevenson? 20 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. I 21 would note that it's, based on my, obviously much 22 more limited experience with Puerto Rico. If

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443323 1 there is not a courthouse available in the San 2 Juan area it is probably a, I would, my guess 3 would be that there will not be a courthouse 4 available within a couple of hours drive of San 5 Juan. so it' s

-- 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 7 MR. STEVENSON: Yes. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let's 9 hope that we don't have problems and that a 10 courtroom can be reserved early on. It's a little 11 too soon right now to ask the Court to reserve 12 because they typically don't schedule out this far 13 in advance for visiting judges. 14 MR. STEVENSON: Okay. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: But I'll have the 16 matter checked on my calendar around the same time 17 that we do the summary judgement oral argument, 18 which should be plenty of time prior to the 19 February 2018 hearing to get an answer on that. 20 So what I will do is, I will accept all 21 the other deadlines and dates that the parties 22 have reviewed and proposed to the Court except for

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1 the deadline of March 16, 2017 for expert 2 supplemental or rebuttal reports. 3 I've moved that up to February 15, 4 2017, and I've also moved the deadline for taking 5 depositions from March 2nd, 2017, to March 10, 6 2017. 7 And by doing that I'm giving the 8 parties a little window of time to depose expert 9 witnesses before all discovery closes. 10 With that, I will be issuing a 11 litigation scheduling order that codifies all the 12 parties' proposals and the Court's changes, as 13 well as the telephone motion conference time and 14 the hearing dates. 15 Included in this litigation scheduling 16 order, you'll find information about how to raise 17 motions and request oral argument on my calendar 18 for any issues that haven't been addressed today 19 by the parties. 20 You' 11 also find some information about 21 how to request an optional conference with the 22 Court regarding discovery disputes that might

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443325 1 arise. This optional conference is provided in 2 the event you think you can get something resolved 3 short of filing a formal motion. 4 It may be that you have the optional 5 telephone conference and then find that you need 6 to file a motion anyway. But for purposes of 7 efficiency, I'm adding this in since it'S 8 something that the U.S. District Court has been 9 testing as well and has found to be fairly useful 10 for the parties. 11 There's also going to be information in 12 this litigation order about how to mark your 13 exhibits when the case, if the case goes to trial, 14 what to do if you want to withdraw counsel on the 15 case, and so forth. 16 Ms. Lopez, just so you know, prior to 17 you getting on the phone I was asking Mr. 18 Stevenson a little bit about the complaint and the 19 allegations in the complaint. 20 I was interested in knowing how many 21 acts of violation there were and whether or not 22 there were counts within each of the violations so

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443326 1 that I had a better understanding of what the 2 issues were. 3 I'm going to ask you a few questions 4 about your case before you close. It's my 5 understanding from looking at your answer that 6 you're alleging that none of these allegations are 7 true and that the violations were not committed as 8 stated in the complaint. 9 Can you tell me, are you saying that 10 nothing happened and that the FAA is completely 11 mistaken about this? Or tell me a little bit more 12 about what the actual defense is as far as you 13 know. 14 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Okay. As far as I 15 know in regards with the first alleged violations 16 that were on March 2011, the information that we 17 have is that the violations were not committed as 18 stated. 19 The position of our client is that he 20 did the flight and based on his experience and 21 based on the flight that he was going to do and 22 the purpose of the plane, so he took that

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443327 1 determination. He believes that it wasn't a 2 violation to any of the several dispositions. 3 Nevertheless, in regards with the 4 allegations of that case the Puerto Rico Police 5 Department took measurements and the pilot, as you 6 know, had his license suspended by the Federal 7 Aviation Administration. 8 And also internally we conducted an 9 administrative procedure which had sanctions. We 10 also took measurements in regards with the 11 personal, the requirements and we asked them with, 12 we gave them some additional training so that no 13 other actions that could imply the violations 14 would happen again. 15 After that first

-- 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm going to stop you. 17 I'm going to stop you. I'll simply note a process 18 for the record. During this narrative I noticed 19 that you turned to your co-counsel and spoke to 20 her in Spanish and then got a response from her 21 and then started your narrative again. 22 And that is not an appropriate way to

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1 appear before the Court. When you're speaking to 2 the Court you speak in English only. That's the 3 language of this particular action and you do not 4 talk to other people, most particularly not in 5 another language because this matter is being 6 court reported. And everything that you say must 7 appear on the record. 8 If you need time to talk to co-counsel, 9 you need to tell me that so that I can say, you 10 would say something like this. Your Honor, I need 11 to consult privately with my co-counsel for a 12 moment. May I do that? 13 And I will typically say, of course, at 14 which point you cover your phone, speak quietly so 15 nobody can hear you, and then you get back on the 16 line. Does that, do you understand that? 17 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, completely. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Good. So in 19 the future, if you need to consult with co-counsel 20 you just tell me. I will most likely give you 21 permission to do that and then you can speak off 22 the record with that person for a moment.

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443329 1 Okay. Now let me ask you something 2 before you proceed. You've stated to me that your 3 pilot was suspended as I know. Why would you 4 think I would know that other than because you 5 told me in your answer? 6 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: No, I only said it 7 because it was in the allegation in the action. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you 9 understand that I'm not an employee with the FAA? 10 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, I understand. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So whatever the 12 FAA knows and whatever the FAA has shared with you 13 in the past, I know nothing about that. The only 14 thing that I know is what has been filed in the 15 court record. 16 So unless you or Mr. Stevenson tell me 17 either orally or in writing, I don't know. Which 18 is why I'm asking for this little summary. 19 So as I understand it, there is some 20 assertion by you that you took measurements or 21 actions after the allegations by the FAA were made 22 known to you and as part of those measurements or

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443330 1 actions, you want those things to be acknowledged 2 as mitigating or as important in terms of looking 3 at the fines. Is that what you're trying to say 4 to me? 5 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, that's 7 one part of the case obviously. The other part 8 is, one part of the case is the proposed civil 9 penalty and that proposed civil penalty is 10 assessed against whatever violations are found. 11 So typically what I look at first and 12 foremost, is what the violations are and what is 13 in dispute about those violations. And then as a 14 second part of the case I look at the proposed 15 civil penalty. 16 So right now what I want to talk about 17 just very briefly is just about the violations, 18 not about the proposed civil penalty. 19 In terms of the violations, is it your 20 assertion based on your answer, that some of the 21 violations alleged actually either didn't happen 22 or can't be proved?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443331

1 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Based on the 2 information that we received the continuing 3 allegation is that it's been inaccurate. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, then I 5 think that you folks are going to have a very 6 interesting discovery period which will start 7 pursuant to the parties agreements as of today. 8 Mr. Stevenson, turning to you, on 9 behalf of the FAA, is there anything else we need 10 to address for your client today before we close? 11 MR. STEVENSON: No, Your Honor. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Ms. Lopez, on 13 behalf of your client is there anything else we 14 need to address today? 15 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: We believe that a 16 motion that we had filed is still pending? 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. You have a 18 motion to dismiss that you filed as part of your 19 answer on July 23rd, 2016. And that motion to 20 dismiss was reserved by the Court when it issued 21 its August 15, 2016, order. 22

(202) 234-4433 It appeared to me in this motion to

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443332 1 dismiss which is on Page 3 of your filing, 2 received by the Office of Hearings on July 23rd, 3 2016, that you're essentially stating that the 4 violations were not committed. That's in Section 5 3, Page 3. 6 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, ma'am. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, typically that 8 is a general denial that doesn't get ruled upon by 9 the Court until the parties file for either 10 summary judgement or the parties go to hearing. 11 I certainly am not in a position now to 12 rule upon it because there has been no evidence 13 submitted to me one way or the other. So it's 14 premature for me to rule upon it unless you were 15 making a motion that is different from what I 16 understand it to be. 17 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: No, that would be it. 18 JUDGESULLIVAN: Okay. Well, thenit's 19 simply too early for me to rule on that motion 20 because I haven't seen any submission of evidence 21 in support of your assertion that you didn't 22 commit anything. You're just telling me that.

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443333

1 And so I look forward to hearing more 2 about that once the parties finish some discovery 3 exchange and present some information to me more 4 formally. 5 We do have a summary judgement schedule 6 that the parties have agreed to as you already 7 know in your joint proposed schedule. You're 8 welcome to file your summary judgement materials 9 at any time, but right now we have a due date for 10 submission of that material by either party, on or 11 before July 11, 2017. 12 So if you and Mr. Stevenson decide at 13 a certain point, later this year or early next 14 year that you're finished with discovery exchange 15 and you're ready to file your summary judgement 16 motion, depending, you're welcome to file them 17 prior to July 11, 2017, and request that the whole 18 time period get moved up for the dispositive 19 motion schedule. 20 Is that helpful at all to you? 21 22

(202) 234-4433 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Yes, very helpful. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 Any other

(202) 234-443334 1 questions, Ms. Lopez, on behalf of your client 2 before we close? 3 MS. LOPEZ PAGAN: Nothing more. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: All right. Then I'm 5 going to thank all counsel for appearing today and 6 for the work that you did in providing the October 7 6, 2016, joint proposed schedule. 8 Our next telephone conference is 9 scheduled for Thursday, September 14, 2017, 1:30 10 p.m. Eastern Time. 11 I look forward to talking with you 12 then. If you need an earlier motion conference 13 for any reason, the litigation order that I'll be 14 sending out to you today will have information 15 about how to do that. 16 With that we can go off the record and 17 I wish you all a good day. Thank you. 18 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 19 went off the record at 11:22 a.m.) 20 21 22

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443335

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___- 10:5514:13 vague22:1 10th 10:1 venues22:18 1119:1233:11,17 verify9:1 11:0119:12,14 viable16:4,6 11:2234:19 violated 11:12,15 11:3018:5,15 violation 11:4,18 12:14 12 14:18 16:421:6 12:1425:2127:2 12th21:11 violations 11:1,10,21 131:93:6 21:15 12:8,1125:2226:7,15 1420:1221:1534:9 26:17 27:13 30:10,12 14th 10:11 30:13,17,19,21 32:4 158:18 9:5 21:15 24:3 visiting23:13 Neal R. Gross and

**Co~, Inc~**  Washington DC

**www~nealrgross~com**31:21 163:7,10,11 5:3 6:9

8:20 9:8 24:1 1701 2:5

_____,_ 2 201011:6 201111:7,726:16 20161:9 3:6,10,16

5:16 31:19,21 32 34:7 5:11 :3 20175:3 6:9 8:17,18,20 0:12 3:11 9:5,16,20 10:1 2 22:824:1 ,4,5,6 3 33:17 34:9 20189:1814:15,1816:4

20:1821:7,11,15 23:19 21079:8 22032:18 23rd31:19 32:2 26(f)3:13 2nd24:5 3 332:1,5,5 3:0010:15 303372:6 305-52002:7 30672:18 3rd 11:7

"- 4 4042:7 43.912:13 5 6 63:16 34:7.7 712002:16 783-12342:18 7872:18

- 8

--- - 85:11 8th5:16 9"_ 9 11:6 9010:2,15 9112:11

(202) 234-4433 39

Neal R Gross and Co., Inc. Washington DC www.nealrgross.com40 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Puerto Rico Police Department

Before: USDOT/OH

Date: 10-13-16

Place: teleconference

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

Court Reporter

(202)234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WNW.nealrgross.com