1 2 3 4 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

WASHINGTON, D.C. In the Matter of: § § FAA Case No. § 2011SW700189 Page 1

5 § FDMS No. FAA-2013-0040 § 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 § Judge: Honorable MARTINAIRE AVIATION, LLC § Richard C. Goodwin

************************* ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS May 17, 2013 *************************



# ;A**··~ORIGINAL** 15 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS, produced as a 16 witness at the instance of the PLAINTIFF, and duly sworn, 17 was taken inthe above-styled andnumbered cause onMay 18 17, 2013 from 9:01a.m. to 9:59a.m., before JanaK. 19 Richter, CSR, CMRS, CLR, RSA in and for the State of 20 Texas, reportedbymachine shorthand, at Regus Office 21 Suites, 2000 East Lamar Boulevard, Suite 600, Arlington, 22 Texas 76006, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil 23 Procedure and theprovisions stated on the record or 24 attachedhereto. 25 Sunbelt Reporting 

### &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, San AntonioORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 AP P E A R A N C E S 2 3 ATTORNEY FOR MARTINAIRE AVIATION, LLC: 4 Mr. Michael L. Dworkin 5 MICHAEL L. DWORKIN AND ASSOCIATES 465 California Street, Suite 210 6 San Francisco, California 94104 Telephone: 415-421-2500 7 Facsimile: 415-421-2560 8 9 ATTORNEYS FOR FEDERAL AVIATIONADMINISTRATION: 10 Mr. James Archier 11 Ms. BeckyHolmes FEDERAL AVIATIONADMINISTRATION 12 Office of Regional Counsel Southwest Region, ASW-7 13 2601 MeachamBoulevard, Suite 6E Fort Worth, Texas 76137 14 Telephone: 817-222-5099 Facsimile: 817-222-5092 15 16 ALSO PRESENT: 17 Mr. Alan S. Rusinowitz 18 

### * * * * * 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Page 2

Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 3 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 INDEX 2 Page 3 Appearances

....... 2 4 ExaminationbyMr. Michael L. Dworkin. 5 5 Changes and Signature

..... 32 6 Reporter's Certification

.. 33 7 

### * * * * * 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 4 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 EXHIBIT INDEX 2 Number Description Page Marked 3 1 MartinaireAviation, LLC's (First Amended) 4 Notice of Deposition and Request for 5 Production of Documents and Things

... 5 6 2 Resume of Paul Daniel Klimas

.............. 7 7 3 Letter dated June 19, 2012 to Mr. Michael 8 L. Dworkin from James Archier

........ 18 9 4 Attachments to Martinaire's letter of 10 response.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 11 5 Letter dated June 9, 2009 to Mr. Alan 12 Rusinowitz from BryanBuchanan; letter 13 datedMay 29, 2009 to Paul Klimas from 14 Alan Rusinowitz; letterdatedMay 14, 2009 15 to Paul Klimas fromAlan Rusinowitz

....... 27 16 6 OrderAssessing Civil Penalty dated June 19, 17 2009

...................................... 29 18 7 OrderAssessing Civil Penalty datedMay 18, 19 2009

....... 30 20 

### * * 

### * * * 21 22 23 24 25 Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 5 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS, 2 havingbeen first duly sworn, testified as follows: 3 EXAMINATION 4 (Klimas Exhibit 1 was marked.) 5 QUESTIONS BY MR. MICHAEL L. DWORKIN: 6 Q Goodmorning, Mr. Klimas. 7 

### A Goodmorning. 8 Q I've handedyou what's beenmarked as Klimas 1. 9 This is the notice of deposition for bothyou and 10 Mr. Buchanan. Have you seen this before? 11 A Yes, I have. 12 Q Okay. Have you everhadyour deposition taken 13 before? 14 A No, sir. 15 Q Okay. Let me go through a few rules of 16 engagement, so to speak. 17 Everything that is saidhere in the 18 conference roomwhile we're onthe record isbeing 19 reportedby the court reporter. She will transcribe it 20 into a booklet form, andyou'll have the opportunity to 21 reviewyour transcript and tomake changes or 22 corrections. 23 It is very, very important that while we're 24 sittinghere, you give us yourbest answerbecause if 25 this matter goes to hearing, I can comment on any changes Sunbelt Reporting 

### &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/Fort Worth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 6 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 or corrections you've made toyour transcript. So try to 2 give us yourbest answer. 3 A Understood. 4 Q If you -- and, also, because of the limitations 5 of the court reporter system, our court reporter, 6 although she is quite capable, can only take down what 7 one person is saying at a time. Soplease wait for me to 8 finish the questionbefore you start to answer. Okay? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q And likewise, I'll trynot to step onyou. 11 It is also very, very important that all 12 answers be verbalized. Anod or a shake of the head 13 doesn't showup in the transcript. Likewise, "uh-huh" 14 and "huh-uh" look identical in the transcript, so it is 15 important that "yes" answers be verbalized "yes" or 16 affirmative, and "no" answers be verbalized as "no" or 17 negative. Okay? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q This is not the Spanish Inquisition. The 20 objective is not to make you uncomfortable. The 21 objective is just simplyto gather facts in connection 22 with this case. I'mnot attempting to harass you, make 23 you uncomfortable, upset you, or anything like that. 24 Okay? We'll just maintain a very, veryprofessional 25 dialogue during this deposition. Sunbelt Reporting &LitigationServices Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 7 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A Yes, sir. 2 Q Is there anyreason why your deposition cannot 3 be taken today? 4 A No, sir. 5 Q Okay. Are you under the influence of any drugs 6 ormedication that would adverselyaffect your ability to 7 be deposed today? 8 A No, sir. 9 Q Let's see -- I was going to give you one more 10 admonition, but it seems tohave slippedmy mind. If it 11 comes back, I'll remember it. You know, one of the 12 things that's the first to go is the memory. 13 (Klimas Exhibit 2 was marked.) 14 Q (ByMr. Dworkin) Okay. I have here, whichyour 15 attorney, Mr. Archier, providedme, your CV. It's 16 identified as Klimas Exhibit 2. It was also Government 17 Exhibit B in someprior documents that the FAA had filed 18 in this case. It appears to beyour CV; is that correct? 19 A Yes, it is. 20 Q Okay. Is that your current CV? 21 A Yes, it is. 22 Q Okay. Has there been any changes since that was 23 prepared? 24 A No, sir. 25 Q Okay. And what you listed there is true and Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 8 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 correct, correct? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q In connectionwith today's deposition, didyou 4 bring any writings or documents withyou? 5 A I don't have anything onme right now, sir. No, 6 not at all. 7 Q Okay. This case involves the notifications of 8 pilot in command. And these are the documents that are 9 requiredby Section 175.33(a)(1) andvarious other 10 sections of the Hazardous Materials Regulations and 49 11 CFR; is that correct? 12 A Yes, sir. 13 Q Okay. And as a hazardous materials specialist 14 with the FAA, you are familiar with the Hazardous 15 Materials Regulations; is that correct? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Okay. Now, I don't expect you to have committed 18 the regulation tomemory, but my understanding of this 19 regulation is that when a hazardous material is carried 20 in an aircraft, the operator of the aircraft has to 21 provide the pilot in commandwith accurate and legible 22 written information concerning the shippingname, hazard 23 class, and identificationnumber of the material; is that 24 correct? 25 A Yes, sir. Sunbelt Reporting &LitigationServices Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 9 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 Q Okay. And the regulation says that the operator 2 of the aircraft has to provide this to the pilot in 3 command? 4 A Yes, sir, it does. 5 Q Okay. There has been an assertionmade in this 6 case by the FAA that the notification of pilot in 7 command, also known as a NOPC, N-0-P-C, serves some other 8 purposes. Are there other purposes that the NOPC serves? 9 A Yes, there is, sir. 10 Q Okay. What otherpurposes does the NOPC serve? 11 A In addition to what you've just spoke about also 12 for emergency response procedures in event of an incident 13 involving the aircraft. 14 Q Okay. And specifically, how would a NOPC come 15 into play in an emergency response? 16 A If there's an incident involving the flight, 17 somebody on the ground would now have access to the 18 information on the NOPC for emergency response 19 procedures. 20 Q Okay. Where in 175.33 does it state that the 21 NOPC is used for emergency response procedures or should 22 be available for emergency response procedures? 23 A It does not. 24 Q Okay. Are there any FAA written opinions that 25 are publicly available, to your knowledge, that state Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 10 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 that the NOPC is used for emergency response purposes? 2 A No. That is a practice. 3 Q Apractice that has been in effect for how long? 4 A One example I canthink of was the Fed-Ex 5 incident. 6 Q And that occurredwhen and where? 7 A I believe 1999 inNew York. I'mnot sure on the 8 years. 9 Q Okay. Are there any FAA handbooks or orders or 10 advisory circulars that state that the NOPC, in addition 11 to serving as a notice to thepilot in command, is also 12 tobe used for emergency response procedures? 13 A I don't believe so. Not that I'maware of. 14 Q Now, you were -- as the hazardous materials 15 specialist, you were the investigating inspector in this 16 case; is that correct? 17 

### A Yes, sir. 18 Q Now aside from Martinaire, are there other 19 carriers that you routinely inspect and survey concerning 20 NOPC issues? 21 A Yes. 22 Q What carriers are there? 23 A AmericanAirlines, UnitedAirlines, just to name 24 two. 25 Q As an example

-- well, withAmerican, when an Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 11 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 AmericanAirlines flight is caringhazardous materials, 2 does the American flight crewprepare the NOPC, or is 3 that done by somebody else in some office somewhere? 4 A The flight crew reviews the NOPC. 5 Q Okay. But the NOPC is actuallypreparedby 6 someone else other than the flight crew; is that correct? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q Okay. And likewise, withUnitedAirlines? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q Okay. And unlike American andUnitedAirlines, 11 inMartinaire's case, it is thepilot who physically 12 prepares the NOPC; is that correct? 13 A No, sir. The dispatcher takes a -- the NOPC is 14 communicated to the dispatcher. 15 Q And it's communicatedto the dispatcherby the 16 pilot? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q Okay. In the case ofAmericanAirlines and 19 UnitedAirlines, does the flight crew communicate that 20 information to dispatch, or is that information already 21 within the company? 22 A Onlywhen an itemhas been removed at the end or 23 they reject an item. 24 Q Okay. So in otherwords, in the case of 25 American orUnited, the NOPC is preparedby some entity Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 12 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 other than the flight crew? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q And it is basedupon information that is 4 acquiredby some entity other than the flight crewwithin 5 the United or the American organizations? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q And the only time that the flight crew -- and 8 I'musing the term "flight crew," becauseAmerican and 9 UnitedAirlines are pilotedbymore than one person -- 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q

-- at least I shouldhope so -- the only time 12 that the flight crewprovides some information to 13 dispatch is in the event some itemis removed or 14 rejected? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q InMartinaire's case, it is the pilot who is 17 providing the information to dispatch; is that correct? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q Okay. So in terms

-- although dispatchprepares 20 the notice to the pilot in command, in essence, thepilot 21 is preparing the basis for

-- the guts of the 22 notification to himself? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 Q Now, onJuly 8 of 2011, you conducted

-- and it 25 wasn't just you, but there were other FAA hazardous Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 13 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 material specialists who accompaniedyou an inspection 2 at Martinaire's facility; is that correct? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q And that was at their facility inAddison, 5 Texas? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q And this was a full-based HAZMAT inspection? 8 A Yes, sir. 9 Q You were not just looking at NOPCs; youwere 10 looking at theirHAZMAT trainingprogram, their HAZMAT 11 compliance, everything? 12 A At Addison? 13 Q Yes. 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q In addition to the Addison inspection, didyou 16 conduct an inspection at otherMartinaire facilities that 17 day? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q Where? 20 A DFW International Airport. 21 Q Okay. Andwhat were you looking for at DFW? 22 A Compliance with thepilot notification 23 procedures, aircraft loading, acceptance, watching, 24 making sure they're operating safely. 25 Q Okay. How long did the DFW inspection take? Sunbelt Reporting &LitigationServices Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 14 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A I don't recall. 2 Q Okay. With respect to what you observed at DFW, 3 didMartinaire appear to be in compliance? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q And so thenyou went toAddison. And what 6 things were you looking at inAddison, other than the 7 NOPCs? 8 A Hazardous materials training records. As I 9 recall, took a look at the stores operation as well. 10 Q Andwere the HAZMAT training records in 11 compliance? 12 A Yes, sir. 13 Q Was the stores operation in compliance? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 

### Q As a matter of fact, would it be fair to say 16 that with respect to HAZMAT compliance, other than the 17 NOPCs, everything else that you andyour team sawwas in 18 compliance with the HMRs? 19 A we had no other findings. 20 Q How long did the inspection atAddison take? 21 A I don't recall. I believe we were done probably 22 12:30 or 1:00 o'clock that day. we started early at DFW. 23 Q Okay. Now, in terms of Martinaire's training, 24 Martinaire performs HAZMAT training every 12 months; is 25 that correct? Sunbelt Reporting 

### &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 15 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A As I best recall, yes. 2 Q The regulations require training every 24 3 months, but Martinaire elects to do 12 months; is that 4 correct? 5 A Yes, I believe so. 6 Q Do you think that's a good thing? 7 A Yes, I personallydo. 8 Q And so what brings us here together on this day 9 in this case are 12 sampleNOPCs that you had some 10 difficulties with? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q Okay. And whichMartinaire admittedwere 13 deficient? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q There's beenno argument fromMartinaire that 16 theseNOPCs were deficient? 17 A Correct. 18 Q Theybasically fessed up and said, "You're 19 right"? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q And in response to your findings, what, if 22 anything, didMartinaire do? 23 A Retraining. That's about

-- I have not 24 performed an inspection of Martinaire since that time, so 25 I can onlygo withwhat was in the letter. Sunbelt Reporting &LitigationServices Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 16 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 Q Didyou find that Martinaire had expressed 2 sufficient level of concern about your findings? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q Do you think thatMartinaire's response was 5 adequate? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q Do you think that their corrective actionwas 8 adequate? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q As a matter of fact, following the inspection of 11 July 8th, Martinaire had

-- it actuallyrevised their 12 NOPC form; is that correct? 13 A Yes, sir. That was in the letterof response, I 14 believe. I have not performed an inspection since that 15 time. 16 Q Okay. As a matter of fact, the corrective 17 action that Martinaire took was relatively instantaneous; 18 was it not? 19 A I believe changes were enactedrather quickly, 20 yes, sir. 21 Q Okay. Your inspectionwas July 8, and I believe 22 the changes tookplace something, like, July 11th? 23 A We met onJuly 11th, yes. 24 Q Okay. And thepurpose of the meeting on 25 July 11thwas what? Sunbelt Reporting &LitigationServices Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/Fort Worth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 17 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A To discuss the inspection andwhat had occurred. 2 Q Okay. And at that July 11thmeeting, was that 3 whenMartinaire had actually revised the NOPC form? 4 A I do recall talking about it on that date. 5 Q Okay. Didyou oryour teamplaya role in the 6 changes that were made to the form? 7 A I believe those were completedby 8 Mr. Rusinowitz. 9 Q Didyou provide any input? 10 A I don't recall. 11 Q Is there any corrective action that you would 12 have like to have seenMartinaire take that they didn't 13 take? 14 A I don't recall any, no. 15 Q So as we sit here today, theywere -- they took 16 these findings seriously, they acted accordingly, and 17 they were fully responsible? 18 A Yes. 19 Q So you have no gripes as to the amount of effort 20 or the

-- orwith respect to the concern or the 21 responsiveness or the thoroughness of the corrective 22 actions that Martinaire undertook? 23 A No, I do not. 24 Q Now, as the investigating inspector, you 25 preparedwhat is known as an EIR; is that correct? Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 18 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A Yes, sir. 2 Q And the "EIR" stands for Enforcement 3 Investigative Report 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q -- is that, correct? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 (Klimas Exhibit 3 was marked.) 8 Q (ByMr. Dworkin) Mr. Klimas, I'mhanding you or 9 have just handedyou what has beenmarked as Klimas 10 Exhibit 3. 11 There is a cover letter to me from 12 Mr. Archier, but that cover letter represents that the 13 attachments are the EIR. If you couldtake a look at 14 that andverify that the EIR has been attached to that 15 letter. 16 A Yes, sirI it has. 17 Q Is that the EIR that youprepared? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q Okay. Going to the first page after 20 Mr. Archier's letter there's an FAA memorandum dated 21 September 20, 2011. It's to DavidDonnell, the Assistant 22 Chief Counsel fromMarty S. Alford. Is he your ultimate 23 supervisor? Other thanMr. Huerta? 24 A Ms. Alford

-- 25 Q "Ms. Alford." I'm sorry. Sunbelt Reporting &LitigationServices Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 19 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A

-- is the central office director. 2 Q Was this memorandumpreparedbyMs. Alford, or 3 was itpreparedbyyou? 4 A I didnot prepare this. 5 Q Okay. Let's go to the

-- we have the

-- the 6 next page is the Enforcement InvestigationReport. And 7 that's the document that you haveprepared; is that 8 correct? 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q And the next page bears a redactionunder 11 "RegulationBelieve Violated.'' Didyou redact that? 12 A No, sir. 13 Q So that was done by somebody else? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q Okay. And

-- but under the "Regulations Believe 16 Violated," whenyou prepared the report, I would presume 17 you put in the pertinent sections of the HMR that you 18 believedwere violatedbyMartinaire; is that correct? 19 A Wouldyou mind restating the question? 20 Q Whenyou prepared

-- you didprepare Block 18

-- 21 not the redaction, but you put something inBlock 18 when 22 you preparedyour report? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 Q And that would have been theprovisions of the 25 HMRs that youbelieved that Martinaire violatedby reason Sunbelt Reporting 

### &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 20 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 of the incompleteNOPCs? 2 A That's what goes in the box. 3 Q Okay. And on the next page, there's another 4 redaction. And, again, that's "Regulations Believed 5 Violated," the same thing. And then there are some 6 recommendations under "Type Action" and "Sanction," and 7 those have been redacted? 8 A Yes, sir. 9 Q The next page is a I guess a Regional 10 DivisionReview by somebody in regional headquarters; is 11 that correct? 12 A Yes, sir. 13 Q It's GaryMoore? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q Then afterMr. Moore's sign-off we have a 16 SectionB of the EIR, and that was also preparedbyyou? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q And if you go to paragraph RomanNumeral II of 19 SectionB, which I think is about four pages in, "Factor 20 Affecting Sanction," and, likewise, RomanNumeral III, 21 "Other Information" and Roman Numeral IV, "Enforcement 22 DecisionTool Worksheet," were those redactions done by 23 you orby somebody else? 24 A I didnot perform those redactions, sir. 25 Q Okay. So withrespect to items II, III, and IV, Sunbelt Reporting 

### &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 21 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 youhadput something in

-- 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q

-- that report; is that correct? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q What factors didyou consider that affected 6 sanction? 7 A Compliance history. 8 Q And specificallywhat about Martinaire's 9 compliance history? 10 A Would you mindbeingmore specific? 11 Q Yeah. You saidyou consideredMartinaire's 12 compliance history, and, specifically, what? Were there 13 other incidents that you felt were significant? 14 A There were similar violations within the last 15 five years. 16 Q Okay. Were there any other factors that you 17 considered in determining sanction? 18 

### A The nature of the violation. 19 Q What else? 20 A I believe that was all, sir. 21 Q Didyou consider Martinaire's response -- 22 A Yes. 23 Q

-- to the FA findings? 24 

### A Yes. 25 

### Q And the immediacy of Martinaire's response? Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 22 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A Yes. 2 Q And the comprehensiveness of Martinaire's 3 response? 4 A Yes. 5 Q What didyou put in/ in terms of "Other 6 Information" inblock RomanNumeral III? 7 MR. ARCHIER: I'm going to object to that 8 question. This document that is redacted is redactedby 9 the attorney, me. He does not make the redactions. The 10 material that's redactedhere goes directly to the 11 protective order and the material that's under protection 12 of the protective order. 13 MR. DWORKIN: Okay. Are you directinghim 14 not to answer? 15 MR. ARCHIER: I am directinghimnot to 16 answer that question. 17 MR. DWORKIN: And, likewise, Roman Numeral 18 IV, areyou directing himnot to answer? 19 MR. ARCHIER: What's your question? 20 MR. DWORKIN: What he hadput in the 21 "Enforcement Decision Tool Worksheet" inhis report. 22 MR. ARCHIER: That is correct. 23 MR. DWORKIN: And likewise, the verynext 24 page, "Hazardous Material EDP Worksheet," you're also 25 instructinghimnot to answer any questions regarding Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 23 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 what he had inserted in that report? 2 MR. ARCHIER: That is correct. 3 MR. DWORKIN: And that goes on for pages 2' 4 3' 4' 5, and 6? 5 MR. ARCHIER: That is correct. 6 Q (ByMr. Dworkin) In response to the FA's letter 7 of investigation, and althoughyouwere the investigating 8 inspector, it was BryanBuchananwho hadwritten the 9 actual LOI, is that correct, or signed the LOI? 10 A He signed the LOI. 11 Q Okay. And I believe that went out on July 19th? 12 A Yes, sir. 13 Q Okay. AndMartinaire responded to LOI by a 14 letter datedAugust 2· 

### ' is that correct? 15 A Yes. 16 Q And I believe you have it right in front of you? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Is there anything in that Martinaire letter with 19 whichyou disagree? 20 A No, sir. 21 Q Now, attached to that letter were a number of 22 attachments that were referenced right in the letter, 23 Attachments Athrough, I believe, M, correct? 24 A I recall a number of attachments, yes. 25 Q Okay. Andwhat that

-- those attachments Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/Fort Worth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 24 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 consisted of included, among other things, pertinent 2 provisions of Martinaire's general operatingmanual or 3 GOM, changes to the HAZMAT trainingprogram that they had 4 immediately adopted, the revisedNOPC form among other 5 things; is that correct? 6 A As I recall, yes, sir. 7 Q Andwhenyou got that, you were satisfied that 8 Martinaire had essentially fixed the problem? 9 A If they followed theirprogram. 10 Q How come none of those attachments to 11 Mr. Rusinowitz orMartinaire's August 2 letter endedup 12 inyour EIR? 13 A Wouldyou mind rephrasing that question, 14 possibly? 15 Q How come none of the attachments inMartinaire's 16 letter of response of August 2, 2011, other than 17 Martinaire's letter, but how come the attachments didn't 18 endup inyour EIR? 19 A I don't recall. Now, what they sent me is what 20 I included in their letter of response. 21 Q But you didn't include the attachments? 22 A I don't recall not including the attachments. 23 (Klimas Exhibit 4 was marked.) 24 Q (By Mr. Dworkin) Let me represent to you that 25 what has been marked as Klimas Exhibit 4 are the Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/CollegStation, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 25 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 attachments to Martinaire's letter of response. 2 Were any of those documents included in 3 your EIR? 4 A If they sent them to me, I included them in the 5 EIR 6 Q Okay. Well

-- 7 A

-- as part of the index of attachments

-- 8 Q Okay. Well 9 A

-- items of proof. 10 Q Well, I'm looking at your EIR, Exhibit 3, which 11 is, oh, maybe about a half an inch thick and I'm looking 12 at the attachments to Martinaire's letter of response, 13 which are about an inch and a half thick, and how could 14 that inch-and-a-half pile have been included inyour EIR 15 which is about one-third the thickness? 16 A If it was submitted, I included it. 17 Q So in other words, what has been represented as 18 being the EIR, is not, in fact, the EIRbecause the 19 A It was -- right. It is a reprint of their 20 HAZMAT program. 21 Q Yes. 22 A In total. And if I

-- if I received it as part 23 of the letter of response, I included it. 24 Q Well, if it wasn't in the EIR that was provided 25 to me, do you have some explanation as to what happened Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 26 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 to it? 2 MR. ARCHIER: Can I interject? And I'mnot 3 trying to tell the witness how to answer, but maybe we 4 can resolve this problemby going off the record for a 5 minute. 6 MR. DWORKIN: Sure. 7 THE REPORTER: Off the record. 8 (Off the record 9:36 a.m. to 9:42 a.m.) 9 Q (ByMr. Dworkin) I take it becauseMartinaire 10 does carryHAZMAT, your office has considerable dealings 11 with them; is that correct? 12 A I have some dealings with them, yes. 13 Q How wouldyou consider the relationship between 14 your office andMartinaire? Is it a cooperative working 15 relationship? 16 A I would say it has been. 17 Q When you've expressed concerns, they have 18 responded to those concerns; have they not? 19 A In the past, they have, yes. 20 Q Andverypositively? 21 A Yes. 22 Q They have sought compliance, correct? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Now, you mentioned some prior cases. What prior 25 cases were there? Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/Fort Worth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 27 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A Out of

-- 2 Q PriorHAZMAT cases. 3 A Okay. Within the last five years -- 4 Q Yes. 5 A

-- we had a letter

-- a case that was closed 6 administratively following an inspection that I completed 7 also involving 175.33 of 49 CFR, and a case out of 8 Northwest Mountain. 9 (Klimas Exhibit 5 was marked.) 10 Q (ByMr. Dworkin) I'm showing you what's been 11 marked as Klimas Exhibit 5. What is that? 12 A Letter of investigation following my inspection 13 in 2009. 14 Q Is that the case you were talking about? 15 A The case, yes, sir. 16 Q Okay. And that was closedwith an 17 administrative action; is that correct? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q So in other words, there was no legal finding of 20 violation; is that correct? 21 

### A There was a violation and they

-- the corrective 22 actionwas such that we deemed it to be closed with a 23 letter of warning. 24 Q Okay. And

-- but a letter of warning is not a 25 legal finding of violation, is it? Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 28 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 A A letter of warning

-- there was a violation. 2 It just was not closedwith a civil penalty. 3 Q Is there some FA document which talks about the 4 legal force or effect of a warning letter? 5 A Not that I can site off the top of my head. I'm 6 aware of one, yes. 7 

### Q Andwhat does that FA document sayas to the 8 legal force or effect of a warning letter? 9 A That it

-- that a warning letter is provided 10 when corrective actions are such that administrative 11 closure is deemed tobe the best method to complete the 12 case. 13 

### Q Is there, to your knowledge, an FA document that 14 basically states that a letter of warning does not 15 constitute a legal finding of violation? 16 (A brief interruption occurred.) 17 

### A Aviolationwas found, but we opted to close it 18 with a letter of warning 19 Q (ByMr. Dworkin) That's not

-- 20 A

-- administratively. 21 Q That's not the question. 22 Is there some FA document that talks about 23 the legal force or effect of a letter of warning, to your 24 knowledge? 25 

### A I'mnot aware of one. I can't Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/CollegStation, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonio

### Page 29 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 Q 

### Okay. 2 A 

### Yes, sir. 3 

### (Klimas Exhibit 6 was marked.) 4 Q 

### (By Mr. Dworkin) I'm showingyouwhat's been 5 marked as Exhibit 6. 6 Is that the otherNOPC caseyou were 7 referring to, the order assessing civilpenalty from 8 Northwest MountainRegion? 9 A 

### Yes, sir, it is. 10 Q 

### And in that case, Martinaire had

-- the FA had 11 proposeda civil penaltyof $32,400. Martinaire settled 12 it for $20,000; is that correct? 13 A 

### Yes, sir. 14 Q 

### And couldyou go to the thirdpage of that 15 exhibit. And the second-to-the-last paragraph, ifyou 16 couldread the first sentence of that paragraph, 17 beginningwith, "Martinaire'spayment." 18 A 

### Yes, sir. 19 "Martinaire's payment of civil penalty 20 pursuant to this Orderdoes not constitute or imply 21 admissions byMartinaire that it committedthe violations 22 foundby the FAA, or that Martinaire agrees with the 23 facts averredby the FAA. However, Martinaire 24 acknowledges that this Order constitutes a finding by the 25 FAA of the facts or regulatoryviolations contained Sunbelt Reporting &

### Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 30 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 herein." 2 Q And there was -- I believe you referredto a 3 thirdcase; is that correct? 4 A As I recall, that was outside of the five-year 5 search, but I believe itwas within sevenyears. 6 (Klimas Exhibit 7 was marked.) 7 Q (By Mr. Dworkin) Well, the only other case that 8 I have in checkingMartinaire's rap sheet, so to speak, 9 is what I'vehandedyou as Exhibit 7, and that is the 10 Purple Power case? 11 A This occurred roughly the

-- inmy world, 12 roughly the same time that our inspection tookplace, 13 within a two-monthperiod. 14 Q Okay. And so -- 15 A So it hadn't been closed at the time that I had 16 completedthe EIR. 17 Q Okay. 18 A That's why that wasn't included. But, yes, I do 19 recall learning of this, but it hadn't beenclosed at the 20 time. 21 Q And this is not a NOPC case? 22 A Right, but I was aware of the hazardous 23 materials issue, yes. 24 Q In determiningyour recommendation ormaking 25 your recommendations as to what shouldbe done with Sunbelt Reporting &LitigationServices Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/Fort Worth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 31 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1 Martinaire as a result of this case, didyou consider 2 this Great Lakes region case? 3 A It was anotherhazardous materials case, but, 4 no, it didnot influence

-- it was just another 5 violation, but, no, because it hadnot been closed at the 6 time. 7 Q Okay. So all we have is the administrative 8 action from 2009 and the priorNorthwest Mountain case 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q

-- to your knowledge? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q So two cases? 13 A Right. Because this one hadnot been closed at 14 the time. 15 MR. DWORKIN: Okay. Let me just take a 16 five-minute break. 17 (Recess from 9:52a.m. to 9:58a.m.) 18 MR. DWORKIN: One of the things I learned 19 in law school was when to speak and when to shut up. And 20 I've got no further questions, so we're done. Thank you. 21 THE WITNESS: Thankyou. 22 MR. ARCHIER: One of the things I learned 23 frommy mom is when to speak andwhen to shut up. I have 24 no questions either. 25 THE REPORTER: Off the record 9:59 a.m. Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonio1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 PAGE/LINE 

# ro

# I't**I~**

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# q Page 32 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS CHANGES AND SIGNATURE

20 I, PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS, have read the foregoing 21 deposition andhereby affixmy signature that same is 22 true and correct,except as notedherein. 23 24 25 

# !2JL-J**~£** PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS JOB NUMBER 108773 Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, EastTexas, Houston, SanAntonio 

## RECEIVEDJUNG52013CERTIFICATEOFACKNOWLEDGMENT

STATEOFTEXAS COUNTYOFTARRANT

Onthis,the 30th dayof May ,2013,beforeme, TeresaEmmons , a NotaryPublicinandfortheCountyofTarrant,StateofTexasdulycommissionedand qualified,personallyappeared PaulDanielKlimas,knowntometobetheperson describedin,orproducedappropriateidentificationasproofofidentity,andwhosenames aresubscribedtotheattachedinstrument,andacknowledgedtomethatheexecutedthe instrumentforthepurposesandconsiderationsthereinstated.

INWITNESSWHEREOF,Ihavehereuntosetmyhandandaffixedmyofficialseal,at myofficeinthedayandyearinthiscertificatefrrstwrittenabove.

TERESAEMMONS MYCommiiiiOn**~** Oc!Obtr19,2011· NotaryPublic(Signature)

# ~ECEWEOJUN0520131 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

WASHINGTON, D.C. In the Matter of: § § FAA Case No. § 2011SW700189 Page 33

§ FDMS No. FAA-2013-0040 § § Judge: Honorable MARTINAIRE AVIATION, LLC § Richard C. Goodwin

REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION ORAL DEPOSITION OF

PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS May 17, 2013

12 I, Jana K. Richter, Certified ShorthandReporter 13 in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify to the 14 following: 15 That the witness, PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS, was duly 16 swornby the officer and that the transcript of the oral 17 deposition is a true record of the testimonygivenby the 18 witness; 19 I further certify that pursuant to FRCP Rule 20 30(f)(1) that the signature of the deponent: 21 X was requestedby the deponent or a party 22 before the completion of the deposition and returned 23 within 30 days from date of receipt of the transcript. 24 If returned, the attached Changes and Signature Page 25 contains any changes and the reasons therefor: Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonioPage 34 ORAL DEPOSITION OF PAUL DANIEL KLIMAS 1

____was not requestedbythe deponent or a 2 partybefore the completion of the deposition. 3 4 I further certify that I am neither attorneynor 5 counsel for, related to, nor employedby any of the 6 parties to the action in which this proceedingwas taken. 7 Further, I am not a relative or employee of any attorney 8 or record in this cause, nor am I financially or 9 otherwise interested the outcome of the action. 10 Subscribedand sworn to on this the 23rd day of 11 May, 2013. 12 13 14 15 16 Jana K. Richter, Texas CSR No. 3693 ExpirationDate: 12/31/13 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 FirmRegistrationNo. 301 Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services 1-800-666-0762

25 JOB NUMBER 108773 Sunbelt Reporting &Litigation Services Austin, Bryan/Colleg Station, Corpus Christi, Dallas/FortWorth, East Texas, Houston, SanAntonio