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63–869 PDF 2011

S. Hrg. 111–1076 

NOMINATION OF EUGENE L. DODARO 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

NOMINATION OF EUGENE L. DODARO TO BE COMPTROLLER GENERAL 

OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE 

NOVEMBER 18, 2010 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security 

and Governmental Affairs 

( 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

ROLAND W. BURRIS, Illinois 

CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

SCOTT P. BROWN, Massachusetts 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada 

LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina 

MICHAEL L. ALEXANDER, Staff Director 

LAWRENCE B. NOVEY, Senior Counsel 

JONATHAN M. KRADEN, Counsel 

KRISTINE V. LAM, Professional Staff Member 

BRANDON L. MILHORN, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

AMANDA WOOD, Minority Director for Governmental Affairs 

LISA M. NIEMAN, Minority Counsel 

JENNIFER L. TARR, Minority Counsel 

TRINA DRIESSNACK TYRER, Chief Clerk 

PATRICIA R. HOGAN, Publications Clerk and GPO Detailee 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Hearing Clerk 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 1 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 2 

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 3 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 18 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 23 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 24 

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 26 

WITNESS 

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 2010 

Eugene L. Dodaro to be Comptroller General of the United States, U.S. 

Government Accountability Office: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 28 

Biographical and Financial Information ......................................................... 31 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 79 

Letter from Office of Government Ethics ....................................................... 115 

(1) 

NOMINATION OF EUGENE L. DODARO 

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 2010 

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:10 p.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joseph I. Lieberman, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Lieberman, Akaka, Carper and Collins. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN LIEBERMAN 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. The hearing will come to order. 

I apologize for being late. The subway actually did break down, 

but it was a healthy walk for me. 

Our hearing today is on the nomination of Eugene Dodaro to be 

Comptroller General of the United States and thereby to lead the 

Government Accountability Office (GAO). 

The next line in my statement is an understatement: Mr. Dodaro 

is not a newcomer to government. [Laughter.] 

Or to GAO. He joined GAO right out of college in 1973 as an 

entry-level auditor and in less than 10 years was elevated to the 

rank of senior executive. He served as Assistant Comptroller General of the Accounting and Information Management Division from 

1993 to 1999 and Chief Operating Officer, which is the No. 2 position at the agency, for 8 years after that. For the past 21⁄2 years, 

he has really ably led GAO as Acting Comptroller General. 

I must say in the selection process that led to this nomination 

there was a lot of pushing and pulling and concern about politics, 

but in the end the process and the President really did select the 

best possible person for this job. And I say that with such confidence because we know you, and we have worked so closely with 

you, and yours is clearly a merit selection, by no means influenced 

by politics, which is exactly what this position is all about. 

I think in a lot of ways we in Congress and more generally the 

American people—although they probably do not know your name 

or very few of them do—owe you a debt of gratitude for the work 

that you have done for almost 40 years to improve the performance 

and capacity of our government. This has risen to a crescendo demand from the public at this point, but you have been out there 

doing that all along. 

GAO is one of those Federal agencies that flies under the radar 

of most Americans. As an arm of the Legislative Branch of the government, GAO provides information and analysis to Congress and 

2 

the Executive Branch, and I consider it to be really an independent, nonpartisan advocate for taxpayers on how their money is 

being spent. 

GAO does not offer policy proposals to solve the challenges on 

which it reports. That is the job of the President and Congress. Instead, we rely on a clear-eyed presentation of solid facts and constructive recommendations to help our government operate efficiently. 

And, Mr. Dodaro, that is exactly what you and those you have 

worked with, and now I hope will supervise, have done for many 

years. So I am delighted to preside at this hearing on your nomination and also pleased now to call on Senator Collins. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

As the Chairman has indicated, today we consider the nomination of Gene Dodaro to head the Government Accountability Office 

as our Nation’s next Comptroller General. As Congress’s primary 

watchdog, the GAO has a critical role to play in the efficiency and 

effectiveness of government. Its independent audits and nonpartisan investigations help to identify wasteful and ineffective 

spending and to promote transparency and accountability. 

The GAO dates to 1921 when the Federal Government’s financial 

management was in disarray. The country was awash in debt, saddled with the enormous costs of World War I. As the debt mounted, 

lawmakers faced a lack of reliable information and lax controls 

over government expenditures. In many ways, I have described 

what is happening today. Many observers, in fact, would say that 

we face similar tests today and that GAO has never been more important as we work to overcome these challenges. 

GAO has a broad oversight mandate to investigate Federal programs on behalf of Congress. To bolster its independence, the 

Comptroller General serves a single 15-year term, giving the GAO’s 

leader an autonomy that transcends election cycles. Given the 

length of the term and the importance of the GAO mission, the 

Comptroller General must provide strong leadership and chart a visionary future for the agency. 

Our Nation desperately needs aggressive and independent oversight of the Federal Government. We are living in an era of historic 

deficits, crippling unemployment, and smaller budgets. As the government tightens its belt, the GAO, which has been labeled ‘‘the 

American taxpayers’ best friend,’’ must remain an unabashed advocate for the public and a protective steward of Federal resources. 

At a time when virtually every household in America is grappling with tight finances, the objective, factual, and credible reports 

from the GAO provide an important accounting of the Federal Government’s operations. These audits and investigations, aimed at 

uncovering waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement, can propel 

needed reforms, and indeed GAO’s findings and recommendations 

are often the foundation for legislative or other congressional action. 

As the recent elections have made clear, the public is no longer 

willing to accept the status quo. That means that the obligation for 

Congress to effectively conduct oversight has never been more imVerDate Nov 24 2008 13:50 Oct 05, 2011 Jkt 63869 PO 00000 Frm 000006 Fmt 06633 Sfmt 06633 P:\DOCS\63869.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
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portant. As the new Congress begins in January and as we look for 

ways to make our government more effective and accountable, the 

GAO and its next leader will play a critical role. 

As the Chairman has indicated, Mr. Dodaro’s career at the GAO 

has spanned more than 30 years, and he has been Acting Comptroller General since 2008. I look forward to hearing more about 

his vision for this important agency, as well as discussing with him 

specific areas where I believe additional oversight is warranted. 

The next Comptroller General must ensure that the ‘‘congressional 

watchdog’’ zealously safeguards the interests of the American taxpayer. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Collins. 

It has become a Committee rule that usually the Chairman and 

the Ranking Member only give opening statements, but I really 

would like to ask Senator Akaka if he would like to give an opening 

statement. He has been so much involved with you in the work of 

GAO. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Dodaro, I want to welcome you to this Committee and congratulate you on your nomination. And I also want to welcome your 

entire family and thank them for being here today and for their 

support throughout your career. 

My Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management, the 

Federal Workforce, and the District of Columbia works closely with 

GAO to address management challenges on the high-risk list and 

to improve the Federal Government’s performance. Effective management is vital to making sure the Federal Government can fulfill 

its mission as we confront serious fiscal challenges. 

I want to express my appreciation for your plans to promote 

greater awareness of financial literacy. Financial literacy is central 

to fostering a strong economic recovery and to the financial stability of millions of individuals and families. 

You assumed leadership of GAO as the Acting Comptroller General 2 years ago during a very challenging time. Your strong performance over the past 2 years gives me confidence that if you are 

confirmed GAO will continue to provide Congress with the high 

quality, objective information that is critical for effective oversight, 

and I look forward to that. 

Mr. Dodaro, thank you very much for agreeing to serve in this 

position. I wish you well in your confirmation process. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Akaka. 

Mr. Dodaro has filed responses to a biographical and financial 

questionnaire, answered pre-hearing questions submitted by the 

Committee, and had his financial statements reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. This information, without objection, will 

be made part of the hearing record, with the exception of the financial data, which are on file and available for public inspection in 

the Committee offices. 

Mr. Dodaro, I know you know that our Committee rules require 

that all witnesses at nomination hearings give their testimony 

4 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Dodaro appears in the Appendix on page 28. 

under oath. So I would ask you to stand and please raise your right 

hand. 

Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give will be 

the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, 

God? 

Mr. DODARO. I do. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you. Please be seated. We would 

welcome an opening statement, if you would like, now and the introduction of any family members or others that you have with you. 

TESTIMONY OF EUGENE L. DODARO 1 TO BE COMPTROLLER 

GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE 

Mr. DODARO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Good afternoon to you, Senator Collins and Senator Akaka. I am 

very pleased to be here. 

I am pleased to be here with my family supporting me as they 

have throughout my career. My wife, Joan Dodaro, is here, along 

with my oldest daughter, Sara, and her husband, Jeremy Carver, 

and my grandson, Bryce, who has made his presence known already. He is actually one of the reasons I am pursuing this job 

after a lengthy career and going forward because of the significance 

of the issues that all of you mentioned today. 

I also have my son, Benjamin, who is behind me here, my youngest daughter, Samantha, and her fiance, Chris Carley. 

I would also like to recognize my parents. I know they are watching via the computer. My mother never had a computer until I became Acting Comptroller General. Now she is an elder geek. 

[Laughter.] 

So I know that she is watching very carefully. They have all been 

very supportive of me. 

I appreciate the opportunity to be here today to discuss my nomination for the Comptroller General position. I want to thank the 

bipartisan bicameral Congressional Commission for having trust 

and confidence in me and forwarding my name to the President, 

which included you, Senator Lieberman, and Senator Collins. 

Thank you. 

I also appreciate the trust and support entrusted to me by President Obama in nominating me for this position. 

I would also like to take this unique opportunity to thank the 

thousands of GAO people who have worked with me over the many 

years, and if it were not for their dedicated and talented support 

I would not be here before you today. 

I have, as you mentioned, answered many questions and provided a lot of information for the record about my views on the 

GAO, the roles and responsibilities of the Comptroller General, and 

my vision for leading the organization. There are a few points, 

however, I would like to emphasize this morning. 

I pledge to faithfully and diligently carry out the mission of the 

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ability of the Federal Government for the benefit of the American 

people. 

As you mentioned in your opening comments, there are many domestic and international challenges confronting our country now 

that are important to the well-being of our citizens and the security 

and prosperity of our country, and GAO can help. We can help by 

continuing to provide an important source of independent, professional, fact-based, nonpartisan information to the Congress, to help 

it make important policy choices and to exercise its oversight responsibilities, to help make sure that taxpayer dollars are spent in 

the best interest of the country and that government performance 

operates effectively for the benefit of our citizens. 

GAO is a trusted advisor to the Congress, and my view would be 

that we need to continue to enhance that responsibility, to tackle 

these difficult challenges going forward. 

Now my vision for accomplishing this would be to build upon the 

solid foundation that we have established in the GAO and to continue to enhance and evolve our role to support the committees 

across the Congress as an institution. GAO serves every standing 

committee of the Congress and about 70 percent of the subcommittees. So it is very important for us to know what the most important national issues are, to engage in a continuing dialogue with 

Members of Congress and their staffs, to make sure that we are 

working collaboratively and identifying the most important issues 

for GAO to work on, and for us to have the talented and dedicated 

support of the people necessary to be able to do that. 

So the first point I would make is that GAO is a full-service organization, and it will remain so going forward if I am confirmed as 

Comptroller General, and it will continue to enhance its capabilities across the board. 

Now within that broad context of supporting the institution of 

the Congress, I would like to see GAO place an even greater emphasis on identifying high-risk areas across the Federal Government and working collaboratively with the Congress, the agencies 

on the high-risk list, and the Office of Management and Budget 

(OMB) to resolve the problems. I would, if confirmed, want to during my 15-year tenure see as many areas as possible removed from 

that list and if any new ones are added that they are successfully 

tackled and addressed. 

I believe this can be done by elevating the attention to those 

high-risk areas within the agencies, setting good milestones and 

performance measures, and continued diligent oversight from the 

Congress. I know this Committee has supported us in our high-risk 

efforts over time, and I think GAO can do more, while maintaining 

its independence, to apply additional specifics and encouragement 

and direction to the agencies to fix these very important problems. 

If we can fix these important problems of high-risk areas across the 

government, we can make a significant contribution to a more efficient and effective government, save billions of dollars, and improve services to the taxpayers. 

I also think GAO needs to remain an important voice, advising 

the Congress on the financial condition of the country and its fiscal 

outlook, and to identify ways to improve government to make it 

more fiscally prudent and sustainable in the long run. This inVerDate Nov 24 2008 13:50 Oct 05, 2011 Jkt 63869 PO 00000 Frm 000009 Fmt 06633 Sfmt 06633 P:\DOCS\63869.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
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volves working with Congress and the agencies to reduce billions 

of dollars in improper payments, to identify areas of duplication 

and overlap that can be addressed, to try to identify additional 

ways to save money and to enhance revenues, and very importantly 

to also continue our forensic audit activities to ferret out fraud, 

waste, and abuse in the Federal Government, and to try to successfully tackle that and eliminate it. 

In my view, Senators, addressing our long-range fiscal outlook in 

this country is going to involve shared sacrifices by many people, 

and those sacrifices will be more easily borne if they know government is running as efficiently and as effectively as possible, and 

they really would rely on GAO to continue to do that. 

Now in order to carry out this vision, we need to continue to have 

a first-rate workforce in our organization. We have many highly 

skilled people. We have great capabilities. But we need to continue 

to enhance that to carry out our responsibilities in the future. 

I would particularly try to add additional resources in technology, science, and engineering because they are very important 

to solving many of our problems in this country, going forward. I 

have been doing that all along, but we need to continue to enhance 

those skills in our organization. 

Plus, we have a new union at GAO. I am pleased that we have 

just reached our first tentative collective bargaining agreement 

that will go to the bargaining unit for ratification and approval, 

and I hope that is completed and I can sign off on that by the end 

of the year. 

We have tremendous people at GAO. I am committed to working 

with our union, our employee groups, and all the people in GAO 

to continue to maintain and enhance its status as one of the highest ranked, best places to work in the Federal Government. 

We can make a great organization even better, working together, 

and I will do that, and it will be a hallmark of our organization. 

It is of paramount importance that we have a high performing, 

well-motivated workforce where everybody feels respected and 

treated fairly, and I am committed to making sure that happens. 

I would also like to thank this Committee for the support that 

they have given the GAO over the years, particularly your unwavering commitment to our high-risk areas and programs. That has 

been very important to us. 

I also want to thank you for reporting out S. 2991, which would 

enhance GAO’s access authorities. It would provide a legislative 

remedy to address the Walker v. Cheney situation and give us additional access authorities, which we need in order to get the information, to do the analysis, to be able to provide to the Congress. 

By and large, we get great cooperation from the Executive Branch, 

but there are cases where we need those authorities bolstered by 

this legislation, and I would encourage you to continue to ensure 

that it be passed, hopefully this Congress. 

In closing, I would welcome the opportunity, if confirmed, to lead 

the GAO during this important period in our country’s history. I 

pledge to do it with a commitment to our core values of accountability, integrity, and reliability and to work with my colleagues in 

GAO to make sure that we remain a strong, steadfast, nonpartisan 

watchdog for the taxpayers, a trusted advisor to the Congress, and 

7 

a leading force in bringing about a more effective and efficient government for the benefit of all. 

I thank you very much for your time and attention today. I 

would be happy to answer any questions, and thank you again for 

the opportunity to be here. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you very much for that excellent 

opening statement. 

I must say, Mr. Dodaro, that I have thought about this before in 

the many times you have testified, and no less today. You always 

seem to have such a command of the material you are presenting 

that you rarely have a text in front of you, which is quite unusual. 

I think I would later like to call your children to the witness stand 

and ask if you remember everything they did over their lifetimes, 

but I will not. [Laughter.] 

It is very impressive, it is very unique, and I appreciate it. We 

always feel like you are talking directly to us. 

I am going to start my questioning with the standard questions 

we ask of all nominees. First, is there anything you are aware of 

in your background that might present a conflict of interest with 

the duties of the office to which you have been nominated? 

Mr. DODARO. No. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Second, do you know of anything personal 

or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and 

honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you 

have been nominated? 

Mr. DODARO. No. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. And then finally, do you agree without 

reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and 

testify before any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are 

confirmed? 

Mr. DODARO. Yes, I do. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. I appreciate your answers. 

I think the first couple of questions that I have really pick up 

from your opening statement. 

I appreciate the fact that you have set a goal for yourself to try 

to reduce the agencies, or alter at least the agencies, that appear 

on the high-risk report list. That is a very important document to 

our Committee that GAO prepares at the start of every session of 

Congress because it does help us highlight troubled areas that need 

more work. But the truth is, as you have indicated, there are too 

many departments and agencies that continue to appear there, and 

that is really not acceptable. 

I just want to ask you to go on just a bit more about what you 

as Comptroller General have in mind to help those agencies and 

programs remove a high-risk designation. Is that a case where you 

will try to work more directly with the Executive Branch, or to 

work in combination with us here in Congress, to make sure that 

the agencies know that we are just not going to accept them repeatedly appearing on this high-risk list? 

Mr. DODARO. Yes, Senator, I appreciate the opportunity to talk 

a little bit more about that. 

First of all, I have been involved with the high-risk program for 

many years, and it has been used as a source of input for Presidents’ management agendas dating back to President Clinton 

8 

through the Bush Administration and now the Obama Administration. And what was started during the Bush Administration were 

meetings between GAO, OMB, and the agencies on the high-risk 

list, and they were committed to having a corrective action plan. 

Well, what I have suggested, and we have started working with 

now Acting Director Jeff Zients over at OMB, is continuing to build 

upon that set of meetings between GAO, the agencies, and OMB. 

And I agreed to personally be involved in all those meetings as long 

as the deputy secretaries, at a minimum, were involved in the 

meetings. So we have elevated attention within the agencies and 

commitment on the part of the top leadership to address these 

problems. 

We have had dozens of meetings. I will be outreaching obviously 

to the Congress as an integral part of this, not only in providing 

oversight to encourage agencies to do this, but in many areas there 

are legislative remedies that are needed in order to fully address 

the underlying root cause of the high-risk problem. 

So I see this as GAO providing sort of a force to bring all the 

proper people together, the Congress and the Executive Branch, at 

a high level, with an increased intensity. These meetings have led 

to more specificity about the problems, more suggestions about the 

solutions, and a sustained attention on the problem, and I think all 

those things will yield important outcomes. 

As Senator Akaka knows, he and Senator Voinovich have been 

focused on, for example, the personnel security clearances area, 

and they held another hearing this week on it. That attention is 

bringing about important progress. 

So I think elevating attention in this fashion is a constructive 

role for us. It does not impede our independence. We are not going 

to take anybody off the list until they deserve it, but we can provide more impetus for positive improvement. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. I think that is a great priority for you to 

commit yourself to because there is a way that when a high-risk 

report comes out, the agencies on it suffer some bad publicity for 

a day, and then for some of them, unless there is a driving followup mechanism such as the one you have described, it just goes 

away until the next report. 

We are guilty in that too because the flow of events around here 

take us onto the next piece of legislation or next hearing. So I really commend you for that, and I think you will produce some results 

there, and I appreciate it. 

In your questionnaire that you filled out for the Committee prior 

to the hearing, you highlighted an interesting thought, which is 

that you would use ‘‘the unique position of the Comptroller General 

to promote greater financial literacy in the United States’’ and that 

you would attempt to enhance the emphasis on financial literacy 

throughout our education system. That is a very interesting, different kind of initiative. So tell me what you have in mind. 

Mr. DODARO. First, we are asked to look at the Federal Government’s activities to promote financial literacy. Actually, the Wall 

Street Reform legislation that just passed mandates that GAO conduct a study on effective methods, strategies, and technological 

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grams. So we have a mandate from the Congress to look at this as 

a starting point. 

Senator Akaka and I have had many discussions about this as 

well. 

And there is a Financial Literacy and Education Commission 

comprised of 20 agencies across the Federal Government, and we 

have reviewed that, pointed out the need for greater strategic planning and the resources to be able to do it. 

The new Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection within the 

Federal Reserve, created by the Wall Street Reform Act, will also 

have an Office of Financial Education. 

We have looked at disclosures on mutual fund fees, credit cards, 

bank statements, the Social Security statement that is sent to everybody every year, disclosing their Social Security status. We have 

looked at retirement planning activities and disclosures on fees 

there. 

So we have a strong foundation for looking across the Federal 

Government and evaluating its activities to try to address financial 

literacy, and it is going to be very important. 

More people are taking on responsibilities for their own retirement planning going forward. We certainly saw what can happen 

with inadequate disclosures and understanding of different mortgage arrangements that were made and the aftermath of the housing situation that led to the recession. So I think there is an important need. 

Also, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants 

(AICPA) has a financial literacy initiative. GAO has supported it. 

And they are working with State and local governments and educational institutions. 

I think with the trust and confidence that people have in the 

GAO and in the position of the Comptroller General, we can be a 

constructive force. 

I will also guarantee that whatever we do in this area, I will 

have extensive outreach with the Congress to make sure that everybody is comfortable with what we are doing, going forward. But 

I think it can have a lasting impact in our country. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Yes, I agree. I urge you on in that. 

We all remember that your predecessor, David Walker, devoted 

a lot of time and energy to the so-called fiscal crisis, even went on 

a fiscal wake-up tour around the country. And this is a different 

way, not to go at quite the same problem, but it will affect that 

problem if we can raise financial literacy. 

Mr. DODARO. It will empower people. I think part of this can be 

also education about the financing of the Federal Government. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Correct. 

Mr. DODARO. And the issue is to be able to do it and addressing 

it in that fashion. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks. My time is up on this round. 

Senator Collins. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Like the Chairman, I want to start off with the high-risk list. 

This has been a valuable tool, but it is also a limited tool. It is really troubling to me that half of the original 14 items on the highVerDate Nov 24 2008 13:50 Oct 05, 2011 Jkt 63869 PO 00000 Frm 000013 Fmt 06633 Sfmt 06633 P:\DOCS\63869.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
10 

risk list in 1990 remain on the list today. It is totally unacceptable 

for a program to remain a high risk for 20 years. 

A contributing factor to this problem is that GAO releases the 

list, Congress may hold a hearing on the issue, we look to the departments and to OMB to pay attention and take action, but we 

go away and do not look at the list again until the next Congress. 

I would like you to be more specific on how GAO could improve 

the utility of the high-risk list. One of the problems that I see with 

it, for example, is one of the areas that has been listed for the last 

20 years is the Medicare program. Well, that is so huge that it is 

really not very helpful to tell Congress or even the Department of 

Homeland Security (DHS) that the Medicare program is high-risk. 

Probably everyone knows that. If GAO drilled down and selected 

specific aspects that make it high-risk, it would be more valuable. 

Mr. DODARO. Yes, Senator. Let me address that. First, I would 

just say of the 14 areas that were originally on the list in 1990, 

half have come off during that period of time, but you are correct; 

half have remained on, including the Medicare area. 

I also would point out that 10 of the 19 that we have put on since 

1990 have been removed. So progress has been made, but on the 

Medicare point, you are exactly right. 

I would mention a couple of things that we have done over time. 

When it was first put on the list, there was no measurement at all 

of the amount of improper payments being made under the Medicare program. People were estimating and guessing at the amount 

of fraud. Now there is a scientific statistical method for measuring 

the amount of improper payments. 

We have also pointed out additional opportunities to use pre-edit 

checks, to use more technological tools to prevent some payments 

in the beginning, and to use more diagnostic tools to do more medical reviews of the claims. Right now, less than 1 percent of the 

Medicare claims are subject to a subsequent review to determine 

if they are medically necessary. So we have a lot more specifics, 

and we are starting to engage in discussions in that area. 

So we can decompose the problem as you articulate, and that is 

what I would like to do. When I say ‘‘greater emphasis,’’ that is exactly what you are talking about—greater specificity, greater follow-through, and a clear message that we are not going to hold off. 

We are going to keep pressing until these problems get solved. 

Senator COLLINS. Right, because it should not be a one-shot 

deal—— 

Mr. DODARO. Right. 

Senator COLLINS [continuing]. At the beginning of each Congress, 

and that is true for us as well as for you. 

One very valuable reorganization that the GAO undertook was 

in 2005 when the Forensic Audit and Special Investigations Unit 

was created. I see the head of the unit in the front row. We have 

worked very closely with that investigative unit, including uncovering $1 billion in fraud in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, exposing 

the high risk for fraud and abuse in the Energy Star program, 

identifying misuse of Homeland Security grant money, and revealing lax procedures for securing a passport. 

Given what I view as the great success of this unit and the need 

for more aggressive oversight in this era of tight budgets, are you 

11 

considering devoting more resources to this unit, which is currently 

very small. 

Mr. DODARO. I am committed to enhancing the capabilities of the 

unit and to consider adding additional resources, Senator. I am 

very interested. I was involved in helping create the unit. It had 

great success, and we definitely are enhancing the tools, and I will 

do everything I can to try to enhance the level of resources there. 

And I would appreciate this Committee’s support in helping GAO 

on its resource requests. I know you have in the past, but when I 

became Acting Comptroller General, we were at our lowest staffing 

level in GAO’s history overall. And while I have been successful in 

working with the Congress in getting some additional resources 

over the past couple of years, we are still at a level of about 3,200 

people when we had almost 2,000 more people earlier. 

But to answer your specific question, yes, the resource investment in this group has paid off handsomely and with great dividends, and I will consider adding additional resources. 

Senator COLLINS. I hope you will because if you look at it from 

a cost-benefit ratio, this unit has produced so many valuable reports and investigations that have led to reforms that have really 

saved taxpayer dollars. 

Mr. DODARO. The other thing, Senator, that we have done is to 

integrate that unit with other units, like, for example, the work we 

did for this Committee on the Federal Protective Service. They did 

some testing in the security area. 

Senator COLLINS. Exactly. 

Mr. DODARO. So we are looking for integration. That will help leverage the resources as well. 

Senator COLLINS. Let me bring up in this first round a criticism 

of GAO’s reports, and that has to do with the timeliness of reports, 

and this is probably directly related to resources, and I recognize 

that. But the pace of congressional oversight efforts cannot, at 

times, wait for months or even years for the completion of a GAO 

report. 

I know that you have to prioritize, that you are overwhelmed 

with requests, and from our perspective, you do a good job 

prioritizing requests from chairmen and ranking members, but the 

timeliness remains a problem. The best report, if we get it far after 

the problem has been allowed to languish, does us far less good 

than a timely report. 

What steps are you going to take to ensure that your reports are 

more timely? 

Mr. DODARO. There are several things, Senator, that I have been 

and will continue to do to make improvements in this area. 

First would be to get a clear sense of the priorities of the committees. As you mentioned, on average for the last several years, GAO 

receives about a thousand requests from the Congress. For 3,200 

people, that involves making sure we set the right priorities, working with the committees. So I plan to enhance that by trying to 

have meetings with the chairmen and ranking members to get 

their priorities for the upcoming Congress. I know there is a lot of 

discussion at the staff level, but I think a higher level discussion 

on the priorities would help ensure more timeliness. 

12 

Second, we are looking at different product lines to provide more 

sophisticated briefings. We provide a lot of testimony, even on preliminary observations when we have done enough work to be able 

to do it. We also are adding additional technologies and tools. 

I am very pleased that also during this period of time, we have 

taken on more responsibilities for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, and now the 

Wall Street Reform Act, which has 44 mandates for GAO to do 

studies, 17 of which have to be done within a year. 

We also have a new requirement to do an annual report on duplication and overlap in the Federal Government. 

But in the last 10 years, we have also turned over our workforce 

in providing for succession planning, over half of our senior executives and half of our workforce. So we are working on training programs, tools, and techniques. I am trying to streamline some of our 

methodologies and administrative processes. I know it is an important area. 

The other thing, Senator, I would point out is that we also survey staff and Members of Congress after we issue a report, and one 

of the questions we ask is whether or not the report was received 

on time. Of those people who respond, 95 percent say that they 

have received the report on time. So I am watching. 

Timeliness is one of our performance measures, but your point is 

something that is a valid issue. I am aware of it, and I will work 

hard to improve it. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Collins. Senator Akaka. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Dodaro, GAO has extensively studied the implementation of 

the Government Performance and Results Act (GPRA) and has 

found that while GPRA has established a solid foundation for improving results, the law has not reached its full potential. Do you 

have recommendations for Congress to improve GPRA? 

Mr. DODARO. Yes, Senator, I agree with you. It has not yet 

reached its full potential, and there is more that could be done. 

What it has done though is generate more performance goals and 

measures than existed at the time the Act was passed in 1993, but 

they are not being used to their full potential. 

I think there needs to be more discussion with the Congress in 

agreeing on some of the goals, having more oversight, and reviewing whether or not the goals have been achieved over a period of 

time. 

The same thing is true for the leadership in the departments and 

the agencies. Particularly when you have changes in the top leadership in the departments, there is not always continuity over time. 

The average tenure of a political appointee is still roughly around 

2 years, and so you need continuity over time to measure performance and to take action on it. Congress can play an important role. 

Also, the other aspect of the Government Performance and Results Act that has never really been implemented fully is the governmentwide performance plan. There are more and more problems 

now that require multiple agencies to put forth efforts to be able 

to achieve improvements, and I would encourage the Congress to 

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13 

ance measures that could be used to help address that statutory requirement that is yet unfulfilled. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Dodaro, I want to congratulate GAO and the 

GAO Employees Organization for working together to reach a tentative agreement on a master collective bargaining agreement, and 

I am pleased you are looking forward to signing it. If confirmed, 

what specific actions would you take to sustain the productive relationship of mutual trust with your employees and their representatives? 

Mr. DODARO. It is very important for me to have mutual respect 

and trust with the GAO workforce. I meet periodically with the 

union leaders in what we call ‘‘pulse check meetings’’ to make sure 

we are staying on track. I have met with the national leaders as 

well as the leaders of the GAO union. 

I have reestablished employee groups for people not in the bargaining unit to provide advice to me. 

We also have created a diversity advisory council to provide advice. We have created workforce diversity plans and training. 

The GAO people are a great workforce. Everybody is committed 

to the mission of the GAO and to continue to make improvements, 

and the challenge is to make sure that we are always open for feedback from our workforce to be able to continuously make improvements. And my philosophy is as long as there is good faith on all 

parties, we will continue to make a great organization even better. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Dodaro, I want to commend GAO again for 

achieving the second highest ranking in the recent Best Places to 

Work Survey. Why do you believe GAO is considered one of the 

best places to work, and are there specific policies, such as 

telework, that have had a positive impact on performance and on 

morale? 

Mr. DODARO. Definitely, Senator. First, I would say one of the 

underlying reasons, basic reasons, is the mission of the organization—to make a difference and improve government. People come 

to GAO and they stay because they can make a difference, but you 

need to have a good working environment. 

We have flexible working arrangements with telework. We have 

a daycare facility in the GAO. We provide support for student loan 

repayments. We provide a good education program. People like to 

continuously learn and improve their skills. So we try to achieve 

the best work-life balance, family balance, that we can in the environment. So I am always looking for ways to hear from our workforce about how to improve it. 

Telework has great potential. When the Congress had to leave 

the buildings during the anthrax attacks, which is the first time 

that the Capitol was evacuated since the War of 1812, the House 

of Representatives came to the GAO to conduct their business for 

2 weeks, and we allowed a great deal of our workforce to telework 

during that period of time. 

And during this latest snowstorm that we had this past year, we 

were able to still issue reports during that period of time. So I am 

a big fan of telework. I think it is a terrific tool for the organization, and people respond. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Dodaro, the Federal Government must deal 

with problems that cut across agencies, yet too often agencies do 

14 

not work together to solve these complex problems. This Committee 

approved legislation that would require the Director of OMB to 

work with agencies to develop and implement plans that address 

long-term Federal Government priority goals that cut across agencies. Do you believe there is a need for legislative emphasis on 

issues that involve multiple agencies? 

Mr. DODARO. Yes, I do, Senator. Things have changed in terms 

of the complexities of problems, and you need to have more agencies working collaboratively together. Whether you are talking 

about preparing for a pandemic or you are talking about Homeland 

Security issues, food safety, or modernizing disability programs, 

multiple agencies are involved, and there are not really always 

very good, well-functioning mechanisms to do that. 

Legislative initiatives to further those goals are important. I 

think, longer term, there needs to be some additional discussion 

about how best to organize government to take on some of these 

challenges. But in the short term, legislation from the Congress 

would be very important to help spur that on. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much for your responses. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Akaka. 

I just have one or two more questions. This one is a general 

question which will perhaps take you into an area that we normally rely on the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) for, but I 

wanted to get your reaction to it, which is whether GAO, in its policy reviews and audits, should take on the responsibility of informing Congress when you and your staff conclude that a legislative 

mandate that we put on an agency is either very difficult to 

achieve or too costly, perhaps even prohibitively costly. 

We are in a time when we are looking for every possible way we 

can begin to fulfill our responsibilities to the public, but do it in 

a more efficient way or with the aim of trying to eliminate the Federal debt. So what would you think about that added GAO responsibility? 

Mr. DODARO. Senator, I have been involved in a number of discussions over time about a GAO role in assessing the programmatic 

and managerial challenges and feasibility of proposed legislation, 

and in regulatory issues as well. My view is GAO has a lot of potential to add in a lot of different areas, but unless it comes with 

additional resources, all we are going to do is exacerbate the already existing problem that Senator Collins pointed out, which is 

that we cannot do more work unless we have more resources without sacrificing the quality of what we do. 

I will never sacrifice the quality of GAO work, either for expediency or for other purposes. It does not serve the Congress well, it 

does not serve the American people well, and it does not reflect 

well on GAO. So quality is very important. We have our reputation 

that we built up over a period of time. That could be lost very 

quickly without a commitment to quality. 

But going back to your point, I certainly think we could do more, 

but we need more resources to be able to do that. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Let us continue that conversation because 

I think since you are into the agency so often on audits—I underVerDate Nov 24 2008 13:50 Oct 05, 2011 Jkt 63869 PO 00000 Frm 000018 Fmt 06633 Sfmt 06633 P:\DOCS\63869.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
15 

stand it takes more work—it could be a real value added for Congress and for the taxpayers. 

The final question is a personnel-related matter. It is interesting 

that GAO has implemented performance-based compensation. And 

I wonder if you could describe it a bit, how it is working, and 

whether it is going to be permanent or whether it is a model for 

other parts of the Federal Government. 

Mr. DODARO. Well, in the personnel performance-based compensation area, I would say, like a lot of organizations, we have 

had our ups and downs with it, and actually dissatisfaction with 

some of our approaches led to the formation of our union. So one 

of the things I did as Acting Comptroller General is work with the 

Congress to get legislation to provide a floor guarantee for our organization. 

I think the most difficult part of this in the Federal Government, 

Mr. Chairman, is to have a system that not only rewards individual people for what they do, but promotes teamwork. And it promotes organizational goals as well, so people work together and feel 

like they are rewarded properly, and you have the right type of incentives, and there is a fairness and equity. 

Now I have commissioned a top-to-bottom study of our performance management system. People in GAO are not satisfied with it. 

And we just hired a contractor. We are working with the union, 

working with the employee groups, and we are going to come up 

with a new system. 

And I am pledging that we are going to work cooperatively. It is 

going to be something that we gain as much consensus as possible 

from our employees because unless they believe in it, they will not 

believe it is adequate and fair. 

And we are also going to focus on it in the context of trying to 

improve performance and improve people in a constructive way and 

not have just sort of a one-time kind of an assessment. 

I will report back to you. My goal is to come up with something 

that is a model, that could be done in a collective bargaining agreement and could be useful to others. Right now, we are not there 

yet. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Interesting. So you are committed to the 

principle or the policy of performance-based compensation, but you 

are trying now to work with the consultant and the new union to 

see if you can do it in a way that the employees will accept. 

Mr. DODARO. Yes, I think it is pivotal to have the underlying 

mechanism that you use to make decisions to pay people based on 

performance to have credibility. Then you can do more with it if 

you have that buy-in and commitment. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Just briefly, what were the one or two top 

gripes or, to be more senatorial, sources of dissatisfaction of the 

employees? [Laughter.] 

Mr. DODARO. Too complex. Not equitably administered across a 

period of time. Not enough transparency. 

So our goal is greater simplicity, greater focus on improvement 

in a constructive fashion, and a system that has more transparency 

and equity. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Good. Keep us posted on that. Senator 

Collins. 

16 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Just to follow up on that issue, I am a little concerned as I have 

listened to your approach. Certainly in order to have an effective 

pay-for-performance program, you do need to have credibility, and 

you also need to have very good training so that managers apply 

it fairly. 

But I hope you are not saying that you are backing away from 

the principle of pay for performance. I think we need to extend that 

principle throughout the Federal Government, and I hope that your 

reaction to the employees’ dissatisfaction and decision to recognize 

a union is not to back away from a merit-based system. 

Mr. DODARO. By no means, Senator Collins. By no means, but I 

want one that everybody agrees with. 

Senator COLLINS. But that is unlikely to ever happen in a meritbased system. 

Mr. DODARO. Right, but you need to have a core of consensus to 

be able to do it, and I may not be able to achieve it. 

I am an optimistic person by nature, and I am committed and 

dedicated to try to do that, but by no means am I backing away 

from pay for performance. Our people want it. They expect it. And 

I want to do it in a manner where it is not only a good system, 

but we have the proper training and the proper safeguards in place 

where everybody feels equitably treated. 

Senator COLLINS. Let me switch to a different role that GAO 

plays that I think a lot of the public is not aware of, and that is 

the bid protest process where GAO provides a vital forum for resolving government contracting disputes and ensuring that the applicable laws and regulations are followed. 

In the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008, 

there were provisions expanding the protest rights for the award 

of task and delivery orders valued at more than $10 million. Our 

concern was we were seeing more and more of these indefinite 

quantity, indefinite time contracts under which there were task 

and delivery orders that end up being valued at a lot of money. So 

that provision expanding those protest rights expires in May of 

next year. Do you support extending the sunset date for that provision so that GAO could continue to hear cases involving bid protests of task and delivery orders? 

Mr. DODARO. We are in the process of reassessing that issue. I 

think it makes sense to extend the provision. 

What I am concerned about is, again, the resources. We absorbed 

that responsibility within the existing resources, and I will provide 

input to this Committee and other committees on what our needs 

may be if that is extended going forward, but we certainly think 

that it has proven to be a valuable addition. 

Senator COLLINS. Let me just ask one final question. I may have 

a few more for the record, but I know, as you pointed out, you have 

probably answered hundreds already. 

But that has to do with information technology. It is really disturbing to look across the Federal Government and see billions of 

dollars that have been wasted on failed information technology (IT) 

projects, whether it is at the Federal Bureau of Investigation or the 

Census Bureau, almost anywhere that you look. 

17 

GAO has provided guidance to improve the Administration’s Office of E-Government as it developed new initiatives such as the IT 

Dashboard and TechStat sessions. This consultative role is unique 

for GAO, as it is outside the traditional audit or investigative role. 

How has that worked from GAO’s perspective? 

Mr. DODARO. Well, we value and always preserve our independence, but there is a great degree of room there for us to provide 

that type of assistance. And actually that is one of the things that 

I have been involved with for a long period of time. During the 

Year 2000 (Y2K) scenario, we provided guidance, which then got 

adopted by the Executive Branch in order to prepare properly. We 

did best practices research that led to the establishment of ClingerCohen legislation. We have just put out a cost estimating—— 

Senator COLLINS. Cohen-Clinger, in Maine. [Laughter.] 

Mr. DODARO. Oh, I am sorry. Excuse me, Senator. 

Senator COLLINS. That is all right. I will let it go. 

Mr. DODARO. Actually, we worked closely with Senator William 

Cohen on that. In fact, he hosted a 10-year celebration of the passage of that legislation, which I attended. 

But to go back to the issue, we have just developed a cost estimating guide with input from people across government on experts, 

and now it is posted, and I am trying to get the Executive Branch 

to implement it on a consistent basis. We are going to develop one 

on scheduling. 

So GAO can, must, and will provide additional guidance, support, 

encouragement, and consultation to improve programs and address 

problems. That is part of the philosophy I have on trying to address 

these high-risk problems as well. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Collins. 

Senator Akaka. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I have just one final question to ask, and that comes after the 

Chairman raised the question of financial literacy. It made me curious about what you are doing with it. I am pleased that you plan 

to make promoting financial literacy in the United States a priority 

as Comptroller General. I would like you to discuss why you believe 

that this issue is important enough to warrant the attention of the 

Comptroller General and GAO? 

Mr. DODARO. I think, Senator, that there is increased complexity 

of financial products going forward that the people have to be prepared to address, whether we are talking about the mortgages or 

investment strategies. In the retirement area, in the move from defined benefit to defined contribution plans, people are having to 

manage their retirement accounts more on their own. There is increased complexity in terms of the available investment decisions 

to do that. Disclosures are not always clear. 

I think that it is an important role as the government provides 

advice and assistance to help empower people to make good decisions, whether it be on health care, education, etc., and that financial literacy is a very important part of that responsibility. As I 

mentioned earlier, we will be evaluating many of the Federal Government’s efforts to be able to do that. 

18 

But I also think GAO has an important advantage with the 15- 

year term of the Comptroller General to be able to do something 

that is going to span a period of time to increase the capacity. We 

have the convening power to work with the private sector, to work 

with State and local governments, and to work with educational organizations to help support the government’s efforts and objectives, 

which are stated objectives of the Federal Government. 

So I feel very strongly about this. I will always consult with the 

Congress on how we are going to do this approach, and I look forward to your support. I know you are a big supporter of this, and 

other support from the Congress would help us in our endeavors 

to help others. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much for your response. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Akaka. Senator Carper, welcome. Glad you are here. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am happy to be 

here. It is nice to see you and our colleagues. 

Mr. Dodaro, welcome. 

I am going to ask a couple of questions. I think at least one has 

already been asked, but I just want to ask it again for the record. 

Why is it when you speak or provide testimony you never use 

notes? [Laughter.] 

Mr. DODARO. I believe it is important to talk directly to the Members of Congress and engage in a conversation and a dialogue, Senator. 

Senator CARPER. Why is it when you answer our questions, you 

never use notes? [Laughter.] 

Mr. DODARO. For the same reason, Senator. I also always remember your comment about Winston Churchill, and I am not 

there yet either. 

Senator CARPER. You had a lot of comments in your repertoire—— [Laughter.] 

Why is it there is usually somebody either over your left or your 

right shoulder that whenever you speak I can see their lips move? 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. DODARO. Today, it is my 2-year-old grandson, and he is providing my—— 

Senator CARPER. He is good. 

We are glad you are here. I understand your wife—is it Joan? 

Mr. DODARO. Yes, Joan. 

Senator CARPER. Over your left shoulder. Joan, how are you? 

Thank you for sharing this guy with us and letting him go 

through this job interview with all of us. 

I have a more serious question if I could. I think it is this year, 

maybe early next year, that we mark an anniversary that most 

people have no idea is coming, or has come, and that is the 20th 

anniversary of the creation of the Chief Financial Officers Act. And 

I just want you to talk to us a little bit today about the potential 

that was maybe envisioned when that legislation was adopted 20 

years ago and where you think that potential has been realized and 

maybe where it has not. 

19 

Mr. DODARO. Yes, I would be happy to. I have been involved in 

that for a number of years. 

Senator CARPER. Have a lot of other people already asked that 

question? 

Mr. DODARO. No. 

Senator CARPER. I am surprised. 

Mr. DODARO. But I am ready for it. [Laughter.] 

That legislation was a big priority for Comptroller General 

Charles Bowsher at the time, and it took us almost a decade to 

convince Congress to pass that legislation, which was then expanded in 1994 to create financial statements and audits across the 

Federal Government. It was important to establish chief financial 

officers and deputy chief financial officers with set qualifications in 

the statute to provide the necessary leadership in those areas. 

The Federal Government was the last sector of our economy to 

use and prepare financial statements and have them audited even 

though they required them of State and local governments, as you 

know as a former governor, in order to receive revenue-sharing 

money. And we have had financial audits of publically traded companies for a long time. It was to provide more reliable cost information. 

We went from a situation where in 1994, 6 out of the 24 largest 

departments and agencies were able to get a clean audit opinion. 

Now it is 20 out of 24. 

Senator CARPER. Who are the outliers? Can you help us with 

that? 

Mr. DODARO. Sure. 

Senator CARPER. The Department of Defense (DOD)? 

Mr. DODARO. DOD, the Department of Homeland Security, the 

State Department, and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), I think, are the ones that I remember off-hand. 

I am not sure of the last two; I will correct the record if I need to 

on that. 

Senator CARPER. Thanks. 

Mr. DODARO. And it was to lead to more reliable information for 

day-to-day decisionmaking and to provide better cost information. 

So there has been a lot of progress in that area, but it has not 

reached its full potential yet. I think that more now than ever we 

need to have more reliable data to manage the cost of the government and to be able to assess programs and policies. A lot of times 

we focus on the outcomes, but we do not focus on what it costs to 

achieve the level of an outcome, and that is because we rarely have 

very good information to be able to do that. 

So I think the Chief Financial Officers Act, the Cohen-Clinger 

Act, and Chief Information Officers—— 

Senator CARPER. You said Cohen-Collins? [Laughter.] 

Mr. DODARO. I was attempting to get the right order in the Senate this time with Cohen-Clinger. 

But those were all very important——the Government Performance and Results Act—were all good management tools that were 

put in place in the 1990s. I do not think any of them have reached 

their full potential yet. 

20 

Senator CARPER. Let me just interrupt you. Any ideas as to what 

we can do in the Legislative Branch here to better ensure that we 

reach the potential that was envisioned? 

Mr. DODARO. I think there is no substitute for regular congressional oversight and sustained attention to problems, starting with 

the high-risk areas. Congress has an important role to play and 

needs to play that role. So I would encourage you to have as much 

oversight on these issues as possible, and I will support you and 

others on that. 

Senator CARPER. I do not know if the questions were any good, 

but I think those are really good answers, and I think the answers 

are very helpful, certainly to me, and I hope to our colleagues. 

I do have one more question if I could, Mr. Chairman. 

As you know, I am privileged to chair a subcommittee. It may 

have the longest name of any subcommittee in the Senate. When 

I describe it at home, I say it is a subcommittee that enables us 

to look in a lot of different corners in the government and to try 

to make sure we are spending money in a cost-effective way. 

Having a little subcommittee with eight or nine members, it is 

hard to really do any kind of realistic job in overseeing Federal 

spending. It is hard to do with the full committee, even with all the 

staff and good people we have on the Committee. But one of the 

things we have sought to do is to partner with others who have a 

similar goal—that is, cost-effective spending of the taxpayers’ 

money. 

I have never seen this happen before. [Laughter.] 

Mr. DODARO. They are enabling me to correct the record in real 

time on the four outliers. In 2009—actually, I was correct—DOD, 

DHS, NASA, and State. In 2010, it is DOD, DHS, Department of 

Labor, and NASA having a qualified opinion. 

Senator CARPER. Thanks a lot. 

We have our Committee. We have GAO who has primary responsibility to make sure we spend money cost effectively. OMB has an 

interest in that, and all the inspectors general from all the different agencies. There is great interest in doing this. CBO probably 

has a real interest in doing this. There are a bunch of nonprofit organizations that are interested in reducing waste. 

For us, in terms of leveraging the effectiveness of a committee or 

a subcommittee, I think a good idea is to partner with all of these 

agencies. And we have been partnering so well that we brought the 

deficit down I think for the last fiscal year to just under $1.3 trillion and the year before that, $1.4 trillion, which suggests that we 

can do better. 

How do you think we could do better to improve on this partnership with an eye toward results? 

That is my last question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. DODARO. I mentioned earlier, Senator Carper, I think that 

the high-risk list that we have created really highlights appropriate 

areas to focus on. I want to make that a priority for me during my 

tenure. I think partnerships would be good to be able to address 

those problems, to get more specific, and to really work collaboratively. 

You know the inspectors general, by statute, have to list management challenges in their departments and agencies. They overlap 

21 

with some of the high-risk areas. They have insights. Some of 

them, like the Medicaid program, involve State and local auditors. 

I have tried to partner with them as well. So I think there is a lot 

of room for partnerships in that area that have already demonstrated big problems that would have big payoffs. 

Senator CARPER. Thanks so much. 

Mr. DODARO. Sure. 

Senator CARPER. And thank you for your willingness to do this. 

Thank you for your stewardship. 

And for those who support you, including your wife, our thanks 

to you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Carper. 

Before we close the hearing, I wanted to thank you for Monica 

Anatalio, who is a GAO detailee to our Committee in the area of 

oversight of government contracting. Our normal person on that is 

off on maternity leave. And it is a really important function we 

have, and she has done excellent work in helping us. So I appreciate that. 

I want to thank you for your appearance before the Committee 

today and for all that you have done in GAO over the years. You 

are the perfect person for this position right now. We are going to 

try to move you through as quickly as we can and obviously hope 

to get you confirmed before this so-called lame-duck session ends. 

Senator Collins. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Usually at this point in the hearing, Mr. Chairman, I announce 

whether I am inclined to support the nominee or not. In this case, 

since both you and I recommended the nominee, it kind of takes 

the suspense out of these final moments. [Laughter.] 

So let me just conclude by saying that I look forward to working 

with the nominee as we go forward. Thank you. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Collins. 

Without objection, the record will be kept open until noon tomorrow for the submission of any written questions or statements for 

the record. 

Mr. Dodaro, would you like to say anything in closing? 

Mr. DODARO. I would just like to thank you and Senator Collins 

for your support all along. I look forward to working with you. I 

am committed to fulfilling our responsibilities as a watchdog, protecting the taxpayers’ interests, and improving government. I will 

do everything in my power to lead this organization successfully. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. I know you will. Thank you. 

The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 4:23 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

(23) 

A P P E N D I X 


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Æ 


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