From: Bob Smith [mailto:bsmith@federalpacific.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 12:37 PM 

To: 'Chris Bolduc' 

Cc: 'Richard Parker'; 'Alex Hofmann'; 'Andrew Delaski'; Aris Marantan; 'Art Rosenfeld'; 'Bob Saint'; 

'Brenda Edwards'; Brian Coffey; Caitlin Johnson; 'Carlos Gaytan'; 'Caskey, John'; 'Charlie Drexler'; 'Charlie 

Stevens'; 'Chris Brown'; 'Clark Silcox'; 'Creevy, Jim'; 'Dan Cohen'; 'Daniel Young'; 'David Flaten'; 'Emily 

Marchetti'; 'Eric Peterson'; 'Freeman, Jeremiah'; 'Gary Fernstrom'; 'Greg Coulter'; 'Greg Rosenquist'; 

'Hirsch, Bruce R'; 'James Lass'; 'Jennifer Tiedeman'; 'Corkran, Jerry L'; 'Jerry Hodge'; 'Jerry Schoen'; 'Jim 

Raba'; 'Joanna Mauer'; 'John Cymbalsky'; 'John Rossetti'; 'Ken Winder'; 'Mahesh P. Sampat'; Matthew 

Nardotti; 'Maxine Savitz'; 'Meg Waltner'; 'Michael Hyland'; Michael Rivest; 'Millure, Dave'; Pamela Costello; 

'Phil Harter'; 'Phil Hopkinson'; 'Polinski, Raymond'; 'Puesh Kumar'; 'Rick Anderson'; 'Rob Greeson'; 'Robert 

Berman'; 'Robert van Buskirk'; 'Robin Roy'; 'Ryan, Paul'; 'Scott Beck'; 'Simmons, Chuck'; 'Steve Nadel'; 

'Steve Rosenstock'; 'Ted Johnstone'; 'Thomas Petrosino'; 'Tim Ballo'; 'Tom Eckman'; 'Wes Patterson'; 

Zhimei Luo; 'Miller.Michael-R'; 'Meyers, Aaron'; 'Katie Coughlin' 

Subject: RE: MVLI LCC & NIA - Loading Information 

Chris:

In yesterday’s teleconference Wes and I questioned why the “A” values were so high in Figure 1 of the

ERAC MEMO.  I have reviewed the attached memo I think I see the problem.

You have put the “A” and “B” values on a Present Worth basis instead of on an Equivalent First Cost

basis.  The electric utilities, almost a 100%, use the Equivalent First Cost basis for their “A” and “B”

values, so they can add the cost of the losses directly to the quoted price.  Otherwise we’d be mixing

apples and oranges in the TOC evaluation.   

From the second exhibit, if you are given Present Worth and want to convert to Equivalent First Cost the

you would multiply the Present Worth by (1/FCR)*(1/PW Factor).

For a fixed charge rate of 20% or .2 per unit and a PWF of 12.4 @ 7% for 30 years, the value of

(FCR*PWF) becomes = 2.48.  So the “A” and “B” factors per the ERAC Memo are 2‐1/2 times the values

the electric utility would calculate on an equivalent first cost basis.  If LBNL and Navigant used the ERAC

Memo for determining the “A” and “B” factors, the life cycle costs/saving would be overstated by a

factor of 2‐1/2.   This should explain why the “A” values in Figure 1 appeared to be so high.

I look forward to your reply on this matter & thank you again for all your patience and hard work on this

LCC analysis.

Regards,

Bob Smith, PE 

Product Manager 

Federal Pacific

601 Old Airport Road

Bristol, VA 24201 

  

TEL: (276) 645-8836
FAX: (276) 645-8956

CELL: (276) 591-6143

Email: bsmith@federalpacific.com

The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or 

entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from 

disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, you are prohibited from copying, 

distributing, or using the information. Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and completely delete 

the original message from your system. 

  

From: Bob Smith [mailto:bsmith@federalpacific.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 10:02 AM 

To: 'Chris Bolduc' 

Cc: 'Richard Parker'; 'Alex Hofmann'; 'Andrew Delaski'; 'Aris Marantan'; 'Art Rosenfeld'; 'Bob Saint'; 

'Brenda Edwards'; 'Brian Coffey'; 'Caitlin Johnson'; 'Carlos Gaytan'; 'Caskey, John'; 'Charlie Drexler'; 

'Charlie Stevens'; 'Chris Brown'; 'Clark Silcox'; 'Creevy, Jim'; 'Dan Cohen'; 'Daniel Young'; 'David Flaten'; 

'Emily Marchetti'; 'Eric Peterson'; 'Freeman, Jeremiah'; 'Gary Fernstrom'; 'Greg Coulter'; 'Greg 

Rosenquist'; 'Hirsch, Bruce R'; 'James Lass'; 'Jennifer Tiedeman'; 'Corkran, Jerry L'; 'Jerry Hodge'; 'Jerry 

Schoen'; 'Jim Raba'; 'Joanna Mauer'; 'John Cymbalsky'; 'John Rossetti'; 'Ken Winder'; 'Mahesh P. Sampat'; 

'Matthew Nardotti'; 'Maxine Savitz'; 'Meg Waltner'; 'Michael Hyland'; 'Michael Rivest'; 'Millure, Dave'; 'Pam 

Costello'; 'Phil Harter'; 'Phil Hopkinson'; 'Polinski, Raymond'; 'Puesh Kumar'; 'Rick Anderson'; 'Rob 

Greeson'; 'Robert Berman'; 'Robert van Buskirk'; 'Robin Roy'; 'Ryan, Paul'; 'Scott Beck'; 'Simmons, Chuck'; 

'Steve Nadel'; 'Steve Rosenstock'; 'Ted Johnstone'; 'Thomas Petrosino'; 'Tim Ballo'; 'Tom Eckman'; 'Wes 

Patterson'; 'Zhimei Luo'; 'Miller.Michael-R'; 'Meyers, Aaron'; 'Katie Coughlin' 

Subject: RE: MVLI LCC & NIA - Loading Information 

Dear Chris:

Per our teleconference yesterday I am very, very interested in what value you calculate for the “A”

coefficient.  If your calculation is different than the one shown on page 24, I hope you will supply an

explanation.  You do not need to bother with the calculation of “B”, as it is based on exactly the same

utility costs as for “A” except there are some other variables like responsibility factor, loss factor, and K2, 

all of which we will continue to debate about.   

I’ve confined my calculations to the end of each year instead of the beginning of each year.

Do not worry about the “C” and “D” factors.  They are not very significant and most utilities don’t bother

with using them.

Please try to digest the table on page 16.  There is a lot of confusion on the difference between

Equivalent First Cost and Present Worth.
Please try to become familiar with the “encircled” definitions on pages 10‐12.

On pages 6 through 9A I list the owning formulas for the utilities as known in 1978.  While the “A” and

“B” values of today are about double or triple those shown, the ratios should have stayed the same,

unless the utility has changed its loading practices.

In your model you have assumed a 50% NP loading.  In the attachment all loading is a function of Peak

Loading and assumes load growth from the time of original installation.  As you can see, it is not unusual

for a utility to change out a transformer when it reaches 160% of Nameplate of  peak loading.  I point

this out so that you can remember that in today’s transformers there is a lot of extra thermal capacity

that will not be utilized under the DOE 50% loading assumption.  But I can assure you, that if we raise

the efficiencies of our transformers by 2 or 3 EL levels and the price goes up another 20 or 30%, utilities

will take advantage of the thermal capacity of our transformers and buy smaller KVA ratings for their

initial installations.  So as the load grows we’ll experience just the opposite of our intended effect of

lowering the energy needed for transformer losses.  

I look forward to your answer on the correct value of the “A” factor.

Regards,

Bob Smith, PE 

Product Manager 

Federal Pacific

601 Old Airport Road

Bristol, VA 24201 

  

TEL: (276) 645-8836

FAX: (276) 645-8956

CELL: (276) 591-6143

Email: bsmith@federalpacific.com

The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or 

entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from 

disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, you are prohibited from copying, 

distributing, or using the information. Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and completely delete 

the original message from your system. 
  

From: Meyers, Aaron [mailto:Aaron.Meyers@CooperIndustries.com] 

Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 3:30 PM 

To: Katie Coughlin; Chris Bolduc 

Cc: Richard Parker; Alex Hofmann; Andrew Delaski; Aris Marantan; Art Rosenfeld; Bob Saint; Bob Smith; 

Brenda Edwards; Brian Coffey; Caitlin Johnson; Carlos Gaytan; Caskey, John; Charlie Drexler; Charlie 

Stevens; Chris Brown; Clark Silcox; Creevy, Jim; Dan Cohen; Daniel Young; David Flaten; Emily 

Marchetti; Eric Peterson; Freeman, Jeremiah; Gary Fernstrom; Greg Coulter; Greg Rosenquist; Hirsch, 

Bruce R; James Lass; Jennifer Tiedeman; Corkran, Jerry L; Jerry Hodge; Jerry Schoen; Jim Raba; Joanna 

Mauer; John Cymbalsky; John Rossetti; Ken Winder; Mahesh P. Sampat; Matthew Nardotti; Maxine 

Savitz; Meg Waltner; Michael Hyland; Michael Rivest; Millure, Dave; Pam Costello; Phil Harter; Phil 

Hopkinson; Polinski, Raymond; Puesh Kumar; Rick Anderson; Rob Greeson; Robert Berman; Robert van 

Buskirk; Robin Roy; Ryan, Paul; Scott Beck; Simmons, Chuck; Steve Nadel; Steve Rosenstock; Ted 

Johnstone; Thomas Petrosino; Tim Ballo; Tom Eckman; Wes Patterson; Zhimei Luo; Meyers, Aaron; 

Miller.Michael-R 

Subject: MVLI LCC & NIA - Loading Information 

Dear Chris,

At the last liquid‐immersed distribution transformer working group meeting, we were chatting about

the loading assumptions that were built into the LCC model.  You had commented that there was very

little actual loading information from which to build the model, especially as it pertains to commercial &

industrial as well as larger kVA single‐ and three‐phase units (larger single phase pole mount units are

often ganged to provide three phase service), so the loading information that was available was scaled

across everything.  You had stated that you would appreciate any actual loading information that I could

provide.

Below I’ve pasted the loading information provided by We Energies.  We Energies serves over 1 million

customers in Wisconsin and Michigan’s Upper Peninsula.  The data is quite recent and therefore, should

be relevant.

These values are more in line with the information that other utilities had provided during verbal

interviews.  Armed with this information, how difficult would it be to run life‐cycle cost and national

impact analysis with these loading levels instead of the 25‐30% load distributions used previously?

Thanks and Best Regards,

Aaron

From: Miller.Michael-R [mailto:Michael-R.Miller@we-energies.com] 

Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:55 PM 

To: Meyers, Aaron 

Cc: Corkran, Jerry L; Zell, Russell 

Subject: RE: Load Factors for DOE evaluation 

Aaron, 
In 2008 we established new A and B factors. At that time we relooked at our load factors in 

order to determine the most accurate A and B factors we could. We used customer data from our 

metering group as well as our company design practices to establish these factors and they are as 

follows: 

1-phase 3-phase 

42% loaded 55% loaded 

If there are further questions on these please let me know. 

Mike Miller