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HOUSING OPTIONS IN THE AFTERMATH

OF HURRICANES KATRINA AND RITA

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

HOUSING AND COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

JANUARY 13, 2006

Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services

Serial No. 109–69

(

(II)

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES 

MICHAEL G. OXLEY, Ohio, Chairman

JAMES A. LEACH, Iowa 

RICHARD H. BAKER, Louisiana 

DEBORAH PRYCE, Ohio 

SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama 

MICHAEL N. CASTLE, Delaware 

EDWARD R. ROYCE, California 

FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma 

ROBERT W. NEY, Ohio 

SUE W. KELLY, New York, Vice Chair 

RON PAUL, Texas 

PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio 

JIM RYUN, Kansas 

STEVEN C. LATOURETTE, Ohio 

DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois 

WALTER B. JONES, JR., North Carolina 

JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois 

CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut 

VITO FOSSELLA, New York 

GARY G. MILLER, California 

PATRICK J. TIBERI, Ohio 

MARK R. KENNEDY, Minnesota 

TOM FEENEY, Florida 

JEB HENSARLING, Texas 

SCOTT GARRETT, New Jersey 

GINNY BROWN-WAITE, Florida 

J. GRESHAM BARRETT, South Carolina 

KATHERINE HARRIS, Florida 

RICK RENZI, Arizona 

JIM GERLACH, Pennsylvania 

STEVAN PEARCE, New Mexico 

RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas 

TOM PRICE, Georgia 

MICHAEL G. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania 

GEOFF DAVIS, Kentucky 

PATRICK T. MCHENRY, North Carolina 

JOHN CAMPBELL, California 

BARNEY FRANK, Massachusetts 

PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania 

MAXINE WATERS, California 

CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York 

LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York 

MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina 

GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York 

DARLENE HOOLEY, Oregon 

JULIA CARSON, Indiana 

BRAD SHERMAN, California 

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York 

BARBARA LEE, California 

DENNIS MOORE, Kansas 

MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts 

HAROLD E. FORD, JR., Tennessee 

RUBE ́ N HINOJOSA, Texas 

JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York 

WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri 

STEVE ISRAEL, New York 

CAROLYN MCCARTHY, New York 

JOE BACA, California 

JIM MATHESON, Utah 

STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts 

BRAD MILLER, North Carolina 

DAVID SCOTT, Georgia 

ARTUR DAVIS, Alabama 

AL GREEN, Texas 

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri 

MELISSA L. BEAN, Illinois 

DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin, 

BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont

Robert U. Foster, III, Staff Director 

(III)

SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY

ROBERT W. NEY, Ohio, Chairman

GARY G. MILLER, California, Vice Chairman 

RICHARD H. BAKER, Louisiana 

WALTER B. JONES, JR., North Carolina 

CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut 

PATRICK J. TIBERI, Ohio 

GINNY BROWN-WAITE, Florida 

KATHERINE HARRIS, Florida 

RICK RENZI, Arizona 

STEVAN, PEARCE, New Mexico 

RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas 

MICHAEL G. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania 

GEOFF DAVIS, Kentucky 

JOHN CAMPBELL, California 

MICHAEL G. OXLEY, Ohio 

MAXINE WATERS, California 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York 

JULIA CARSON, Indiana 

BARBARA LEE, California 

MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts 

BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont 

STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts 

BRAD MILLER, North Carolina 

DAVID SCOTT, Georgia 

ARTUR DAVIS, Alabama 

EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri 

AL GREEN, Texas 

BARNEY FRANK, Massachusetts 

(V)

C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hearing held on: 

January 13, 2006 .............................................................................................. 1

Appendix: 

January 13, 2006 .............................................................................................. 91

WITNESSES 

FRIDAY, JANUARY 13, 2006

Jefferson, Hon. William J., U.S. Representative from the State of Louisiana ... 13

Boyer, Elise, Resident (currently residing in hotel) .............................................. 52

Gable, Dr. Willie, Jr., Executive Vice Chairman, National Baptist Convention, 

USA, Inc. ............................................................................................................... 73

Gray, Darrius, President, Greater New Orleans Hotel & Lodging Association . 59

Kelly, James R., Chief Executive Officer, Catholic Charities Archdiocese of 

New Orleans ......................................................................................................... 66

Kegel, Martha J., Executive Director, UNITY for the Homeless ......................... 67

Lewis, Muriel, National Association of Katrina Evacuees ................................... 63

Mercadel, Kevin, Neighborhood Recovery Specialist, Preservation Resource 

Center of New Orleans ........................................................................................ 60

Nagin, Hon. C. Ray, Mayor, City of New Orleans ................................................ 16

Noel, Randy, President, Reve, Inc. ......................................................................... 74

Perry, James, Executive Director, Greater New Orleans Fair Housing Action 

Center .................................................................................................................... 69

Schedler, Larry G., President, Larry G. Schedler & Associates, Metairie, 

LA, testifying on behalf of the National Multi Housing Council/National 

Apartment Association ........................................................................................ 64

Stewart, Pauline, Resident (currently residing in hotel) ...................................... 51

St. Julien, Mtumishi, Executive Director, Finance Authority of New Orleans .. 34

Wells, Scott, Federal Coordinating Officer for DR-1603-LA, Federal Emergency Management Agency, Department of Homeland Security ..................... 38

Williams, Charles, H., Deputy Assistant Secretary, Multifamily Housing, Department of Housing and Urban Development .................................................. 36

APPENDIX 

Prepared statements: 

Ney, Hon. Robert W. ........................................................................................ 92

Jefferson, Hon. William J. ............................................................................... 93

Lee, Hon. Sheila Jackson ................................................................................. 100

Gable, Dr. Willie, Jr. ........................................................................................ 108

Gray, Darrius .................................................................................................... 119

Kelly, James R. ................................................................................................. 122

Kegel, Martha J. ............................................................................................... 125

Lewis, Muriel .................................................................................................... 129

Mercadel, Kevin ................................................................................................ 131

Nagin, Hon. C. Ray .......................................................................................... 140

Noel, Randy ....................................................................................................... 143

Perry, James ..................................................................................................... 153

Schedler, Larry G. ............................................................................................ 164

Stewart, Pauline ............................................................................................... 169

St. Julien, Mtumishi ......................................................................................... 172

Wells, Scott ....................................................................................................... 181

Page

VI

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Lee, Hon. Barbara: 

Louisiana Commission on HIV/AIDS and Hepatitis C, ′′A Call to Action′′ .. 191

National Policy and Advocacy Council on Homelessness, prepared statement ............................................................................................................... 192

Melancon, Hon. Charlie: 

Email regarding production of trailers ........................................................... 197

Mercadel, Kevin: 

′′N.Y. Benefit Supports Restoration,′′ article, New Orleans Times-Picayune, January 13, 2006 ................................................................................ 198

PRC Renovations, Faubourg Marengo Historic Neighborhood Initiative, 

600 Block of General Taylor Street ............................................................. 200

Perry, James: 

National Fair Housing Alliance, Report on Housing Discrimination 

Against Hurricane Katrina Survivors, December 20, 2005 ....................... 201

(1)

HOUSING OPTIONS IN THE AFTERMATH 

OF HURRICANES KATRINA AND RITA 

Friday, January 13, 2006

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND

COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY, COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, Washington, D.C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:10 p.m., in the 

Board Room, Port of New Orleans Administration Building, 1350 

Port of New Orleans Place, New Orleans, Louisiana, Hon. Bob Ney 

[Chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Ney, Waters, Lee, Green, Cleaver, Watson, Melancon and Taylor. 

Chairman NEY. The Housing Subcommittee meets this afternoon 

to continue its discussion of the Federal Government’s response to 

the emergency housing needs of residents affected by Hurricanes 

Katrina and Rita. 

This is the first field hearing held in New Orleans since Hurricanes Katrina and Rita struck the Gulf shores late last summer. 

And we will also be going tomorrow to Gulfport, Mississippi, to also 

to have hearings down there. 

I am going to limit my opening statements. The members here 

of course are free to make opening statements. I would explain, we 

are under the rules of the House and this is an official House hearing and this is the Subcommittee on Housing and Community Opportunity. We have a 5 minute rule, we call it, where a witness will 

speak for 5 minutes. Members then will have 5 minutes to ask 

questions and respond. We will try to hold to the rule, but I do not 

want to cut you all off with a bang of a gavel. So we will try to 

have some leeway obviously because this is an important topic 

today. 

Mike Oxley from Ohio chairs the full Committee on Financial 

Services. And the ranking member is Barney Frank of Massachusetts and I chair the subcommittee. And my name is Bob Ney from 

Ohio and Maxine Waters is our ranking member from California. 

And of course we have other members who are going to introduce 

themselves today. 

Again, I am going to limit it because I do want to get to our 

panel and I think they have important things that we will want to 

hear. I want to thank the mayor and also Congressman Jefferson 

for hosting us in this historic city. This is not my first visit here. 

Also, I would like to thank Chairman Richard Baker and all the 

Members of the Louisiana and Mississippi delegations who took the 

2

time also and have been working on this issue. And of course I 

want to thank our subcommittee ranking member, Maxine Waters, 

who has dedicated so much time to this issue and I think was here 

on the ground pretty quick after this happened. And I realize too 

our members have traveled from the west coast and sometimes 

that is not easy to be able to do that. I really appreciate them being 

here. 

We have been at the forefront of this in Washington, D.C., since 

it began. We have had a committee that we formed for disaster recovery. Members have been meeting constantly with FEMA, with 

HUD, with groups of people that call us from across the country, 

all trying to see how we can help in this situation. So we have been 

at the forefront of it and we have had three hearings, four briefings, and approximately 80 witnesses participating. 

In addition, the committee has shepherded needed relief legislation to the House floor in the recent months following this disaster 

that will affect not only families in the immediate hurricane-ravaged areas but those families forced to suffer the aftermath due to 

flooding. 

Now clearly there are many challenges ahead. Some are local decisions; some are local, State; some are local, State, and Federal. 

But they all involve human beings who have been in such trauma 

in their lives as a result of what has happened here. 

There are still many that are without, of course, permanent 

housing, jobs, and infrastructure. And this committee focuses on 

the housing aspect. That is one reason we are here. And also, about 

people that are living in hotels or on the cruise ships and what is 

going to happen to them, what is the time frame. These are the 

issues we have dealt with in Washington, D.C. So I look forward 

to working with our chairman, Mike Oxley, Congressman Richard 

Baker, Barney Frank, our ranking member again of the committee, 

and Maxine Waters, and our members. Also, would the staff on 

both sides of the aisle please raise your hands, all the staff. 

[Staff complies.] 

Chairman NEY. These are wonderful people and they make the 

system work. They work very, very hard, so I want to recognize 

both sides of the aisle of the staff. 

Let me just close by just saying we went today around the affected area. Even though we have been dealing with this issue in 

Washington, and trying to help, as everybody from any State 

should—we are one country—until you see this—it is the most unbelievable thing I have ever seen in my life and the shock and the 

trauma of what has happened to people. And I just, I would tell 

you the outpouring of so many of you and putting your hearts and 

soul into helping these people is something that shows the true 

spirit of the worth of the human beings from around the country 

and people right here on the ground. I have never seen anything 

like what I saw today. Our hearts go out to the people here and 

also all that you see in the rest of the Gulf affected areas. 

I also wanted to introduce Mr. Sidney Williams, ambassador-I 

should give him his title-and also spouse of Maxine Waters. We are 

so happy to have Ambassador Williams here today. And also, Minister Louis Farrakhan, we are very happy to have Mr. Farrakhan 

here with us today. Thank you. 

3

[Applause.] 

Chairman NEY. And again I would also like to note, I would like 

unanimous consent that Congressman Melancon and Congressman 

Watson can participate in the hearings today. Without objection, 

they will be able to participate. And I will turn and thank again 

for your concern and all your dedication to the people that have 

been so affected. Our ranking member, Maxine Waters. 

[The prepared statement of Hon. Robert W. Ney can be found on 

page 92 in the appendix.] 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

I would first like to thank the chairman of this committee for 

pulling together this hearing and coming to New Orleans to make 

sure we get a first hand view of the devastation that has taken 

place here. The chairman is correct; I was here in New Orleans 

about the fifth day following Katrina, where I witnessed much of 

the devastation, having spent time at the Louie Armstrong Airport 

that was being used as a staging ground for those who were being 

plucked off of roof tops and off the highways. And I saw something 

that I never thought I would see in America at the Louie Armstrong Airport where people were literally dying and did not know 

what was going to happen to them. 

Many of those people were put on airplanes and buses and taken 

to places that they had no idea where they were going at the time. 

And of course, since all of that, we have residents of this great city 

who are living in various shelters across this country and in the 

homes of relatives and friends, supported by churches and community groups and organizations. 

And I would just like to, number one, say to the people of New 

Orleans that I have a great appreciation for what you have suffered and what you have been through. And this committee, this 

chairman and the members of this committee and particularly 

those who are there today are dedicated to the proposition that we 

can do better than what we are doing now; that we can move this 

agenda faster, that we can create more housing, we can get people 

back home, that we can help to rebuild this city. And I believe that 

the chairman’s vision for putting together this hearing today is one 

that will help to get us there. 

I want to thank HUD for the tremendous job that they did in 

providing us the tour today. It is one thing to see the devastation 

on television. But it is absolutely another thing to be close up and 

to see what happened to houses and businesses and to see where 

the breaches absolutely took place. It is a sight and a scene that 

I will never forget and I do not think anyone who sees it can forget 

it. So thank you, City of New Orleans, HUD, the mayor’s office, all, 

for providing us with that tour that we had this morning. 

Let me just say that what we understand is that in the region 

over 110,000 private homes are destroyed. More specifically 

though, some 1.5 million people are displaced and 208,000 housing 

units were destroyed and 20,000 plus Louisiana businesses were 

lost. 

We have been busy in Washington, D.C., passing legislation and 

I asked my staff to give me a review of all of the legislation that 

has been passed. And I would just like to go over that with you 

very quickly. HR 4146, the Hurricanes Rita and Wilma Financial 

4

Services Relief Act of 2005; HR 4133, the National Flood Insurance 

Program Enhanced Borrowing Authority Act of 2005; HR 3909, the 

Hurricane Check Cash Relief Act of 2005; and HR 3505, the Financial Services Regulatory Relief Act of 2005. And then, of course, we 

have the National Flood Insurance Program and HR 4100, the Louisiana Recovery Corporation Act sponsor. 

In addition to that, about 62.3 billion, Mr. Chairman, I believe 

was appropriated for the recovery. And one of the things that we 

must do is to find out where that money has gone, how much has 

been spent, what is left of that appropriation. And what do we need 

to do to fight for additional resources. 

I do want to mention that November 3, 2005, the 42 House members of the Congressional Black Caucus introduced HR 4197, the 

Hurricane Katrina Recovery, Reclamation, Restoration, Reconstruction and Reunion Act of 2005. This bill is designed to provide for 

the comprehensive recovery of the Gulf Coast region and for the reunion of families devastated by Hurricane Katrina. HR 4197 emphasizes two critical objectives that CBC and many others have 

considered most important since Hurricane Katrina—the desire to 

see the Gulf Coast restored fully and the desire to see the residents 

of the Gulf Coast reunited with their family. 

Title Four of the bill entitled Housing and Community Rebuilding Provisions, a section which I helped to craft along with Representative Barbara Lee, using the tools that were available to me 

as ranking member of this subcommittee, authorizes the additional 

Federal funds for the Hurricane Katrina disaster area for the following purposes, in the following amounts. Let me explain, in addition to the work that the chairman was doing and the other bills 

that you heard me allude to, the Congressional Black Caucus 

thought it was very important for us to structure legislation and 

to put into that legislation everything that we thought was needed. 

There are many who will look at that legislation and say, ′′Oh my 

God, that costs a fortune, that is much too comprehensive, it is 

much too costly.′′ But we thought it was our responsibility to organize what essentially is a Rolls Royce piece of legislation, to say 

this is what the people of the Gulf Coast region deserve. 

We negotiated with Chairman Ney here and others, along with 

Mr. Baker, who I think will be here a little bit later today who had 

also proposed some legislation. And we were able to get the agreement of Chairman Ney and Mr. Baker to incorporate in the Baker 

Bill some of our concerns in addition to having our own legislation. 

This portion that I am going to cite to you is about housing because this is the Subcommittee on Housing. And we serve on this 

committee as one of the subcommittees of the Financial Services 

Committee. And we wanted to pay special attention to the housing 

needs and that is one of the reasons I came to New Orleans very 

early, because I knew that the displacement was going to be awesome and that we were going to have to talk about not only how 

to house people in the emergency-that is, with the shelters-but 

then the transitional housing and all of the trailers you have heard 

so much about. And then beyond that, what do we do for permanent housing and how do we deal with the existing resources that 

we have in Government, the CDBG and housing monies and Section 8 housing vouchers and all of that? And what do we need to 

5

put on top of that with new appropriations? So we put together the 

Public Housing Capital Funds for $100 million, Hope 6 Community 

Revitalization for 100 million. We increased the home funding by 

$1 billion. The Community Development Block Grant, CDBG, 

which we think is so important, and the chairman insisted on, we 

put another one billion dollars into that legislation. 

In the CDBG, Section 1089, loan guarantee funds, we kicked up $10 million; the Youth Bill Program, $200 million; HUD Demonstration Act Funds, 4.5 million; funding for 300,000 additional 

tenant-based renting assistance Section 8 vouchers, $10 million for 

fair housing enforcement and $10 million that Barbara Lee insisted 

on for housing counseling for families in temporary shelters. 

Now I will not go into much more of this, except to say this was 

our Rolls Royce budget that is being advanced by the Congressional 

Black Caucus. As we look at what has been done, what has been 

spent, how much has not been spent, we can further decide how 

to be advocates for these additional resources, even given the budget deficit that we are confronted with in Washington, D.C. 

In closing, let me just say this; I believe that more attention by 

the Federal Government must be given to the entire Gulf Coast region. That despite the fact that we have had any number Members 

of Congress, both from the Senate side and the House side, kind 

ride through and ride over, this is really the first official hearing 

that has been held, thanks to Congressman Ney, thanks to the 

Congressional Black Caucus, thanks to Bill Jefferson, and to the 

other representatives of this area. And I do believe that not only 

should we be on the ground today, but that we should be on the 

ground giving oversight in the best way that we possibly can to the 

implementation of the funds that have been allocated to make sure 

we can move this agenda. It is a huge agenda and a lot that has 

to be done. 

I am not going to go into everything that I am happy with. But 

we all know that—and we want to find out here today about why 

more trailers have not been put on the ground. We have some confusion about whether or not the authorization has been given to 

put these trailers on the ground, whether or not they are being 

manufactured fast enough and whether or not FEMA is doing its 

job to get the trailers here. And whether or not the local government is doing its job to do the authorization and the placement and 

the infrastructure that is needed in order to put these trailers 

down until we can get permanent housing and move on that agenda. 

We are absolutely focused on the fact that people are in hotels 

and these dates are being given. Before we left Washington, D.C., 

the Congressional Black Caucus met with the Acting Director of 

FEMA. That is when the date was first given of December. And we 

said oh, no, we do not intend to see anybody put out of hotels and 

in the street in December. The date was moved to February and 

now I understand it has moved to March. But we really do not care 

what date they give; we do not intend to see anybody put out on 

the street at any time until we need to work out how we are going 

to move people from temporary living to transitional living to permanent housing. 

[Applause.] 

6

Ms. WATERS. Again, we have a lot of questions about contracts—

who got the contracts, whether or not they were no bid, whether 

on not they have rebid, who is getting opportunities to be involved 

in the procurement and the contracting. And we may not be able 

to get into all of that today. 

But again, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for starting this up close 

oversight that we must do. And with that, I know that I have 

talked over my time and I have no time to yield back. But Mr. 

Chairman, I will pretend like I am yielding back time so that you 

can give it to someone else. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairman NEY. We will note that yield back of the time. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay. 

Chairman NEY. I do have, without objection, statements that will 

be entered into the record. American Hotel and Lodging Association, Rural Housing Service and a statement by Congresswoman 

Sheila Jackson-Lee. And I would also note—although I would like 

to applaud personally for many of the things the ranking member 

said—in the House hearings we do not usually express either happiness or sadness or booing or applauding. It is okay that you applauded. I just thought I would tell you the protocol of the day. 

So I move on to the gentlelady from California, Ms. Lee. 

Ms. LEE. Thank you very much. I want to also thank you, Chairman Ney, for your leadership and our ranking member, Waters, for 

her vigilance, leadership and really for both of you in terms of your 

leadership to make sure that the response from our committee and 

the Congress is a bipartisan response, and that it is a response 

that makes sense, that is inclusive of New Orleans in terms of the 

appropriate response that the Congress must engage in. 

Also, let me thank the HUD officials who provided this visit 

today, this unbelievable visit of the devastation that has taken 

place. To the City of New Orleans, the State of Louisiana, to Congressman Baker, to Congressman Jefferson, to the mayor, let me 

say to you, the people of New Orleans, I want to just commend you 

first of all for your indomitable spirit and your resilience and for 

your determination, and I mean, your real determination to rebuild 

this great city. And that is what this is about. And that is what 

I think the Congress must make sure happens in terms of our support for those efforts. 

Mr. Chairman, ranking member, we all know that basically people want to come home. They want the electricity restored; they 

want their trash picked up, their roofs repaired, the mold in their 

homes removed, food on their tables and a way to earn a living. 

Also, the people of the Katrina region, the people of New Orleans, 

deserve to benefit from the reconstruction jobs that are taking 

place and they must be close to home to benefit from those jobs. 

There are hundreds of thousands of people who want to return 

home, but either fear that their home no longer exists or will be 

demolished. We have got to ensure that that does not happen. 

Since day one, of course, many of us have been concerned about 

the issues of eminent domain and the fact that there are those who 

could profit or would profit or try to profit off of this tragedy. And 

we are determined, from a Federal level, from the Congressional 

level, to not let that happen. So let me say I am convinced that our 

7

legislative efforts must be about helping to rebuild and restore 

homes and communities, but with equitable development strategies 

in the rebuilding of this great city. 

Today, I hope to hear from FEMA and HUD in terms of some 

of the questions that were quite frankly left unanswered in Washington, D.C., during our hearings. I want to find out how FEMA 

and HUD are working together for this immediate temporary housing and how they are working to make the transition back into 

more permanent housing as easy as possible. 

I also want to know, and this again may not be directly related 

to housing, but we have to have a coordinated effort with FEMA 

and HUD as it relates to the needs of those people living with HIV 

and AIDS and what steps are being taken to ensure that there is 

a continuity of care with these individuals, especially as it relates 

to their housing needs. 

Also let me just say, Mr. Chairman, and to our Ranking Member 

and the Committee, that I had the privilege quite frankly to visit 

Houston. It was an awesome experience to visit those displaced by 

Katrina right after the devastation of this hurricane. And the trauma that exists, as you well know, warrants some attention in terms 

of mental health needs, in terms of counseling, in terms of support 

services as we look at housing needs. And so, I see our housing 

strategies as being inclusive or at least requiring an inclusive approach to make sure that those who need the mental health services and the HIV/AIDS services receive those types of services as 

we help them return home. 

Finally, let me just say one of the issues that I have been very 

concerned with, with Congresswoman Waters and others on the 

committee, is the issue of the homeless. What is happening to those 

individuals who were homeless prior to Katrina. Where are they? 

How are they being integrated into the overall recovery efforts of 

this great city? I would like to include, Mr. Chairman, and let me 

just ask unanimous consent to include into the record, statements 

from the National Policy and Advocacy Coalition. And also, for the 

homeless and the Call to Action, I would like to have their reports 

entered into the record. 

Chairman NEY. Without objection. 

Ms. LEE. Thank you very much. 

Again, I just want to say to you that this moment should really 

galvanize us the way 9-11 did. We should be recommitted to helping New Orleans rebuild in terms of what the American dream 

should really be about. And we should take this moment to address 

the lack of economic opportunities and the economic disparities 

that became so glaring and that the world was—that the world saw 

as a result of this human tragedy. 

Thank you again, Mr. Chairman; thank you, Ranking Member 

Waters. 

[Applause.] 

Chairman NEY. Thank the gentlelady. 

The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to say to 

you, Mr. Chairman, I greatly appreciate your bringing these hearings here. Friends, this chairman has been at every one of our 

8

meetings that we have had on this topic. And I am honored to have 

the opportunity to serve with him. 

I want to thank the ranking member. She clearly is the Congress 

person for the people of this country. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. GREEN. I want to give a special thank you to her because she helped us to secure $7.7 million to fight discrimination in housing 

at a time when we need to fight discrimination in housing because 

it is still taking place. The Katrina victims are being discriminated 

against based upon color, based upon race, and Madam Chair—

Madam Ranking Member, I thank you for helping us to get that 

money to fight that discrimination. Thank you. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. GREEN. I too had an opportunity to see the devastation that 

has taken place in this city. And we lost more than buildings, because that is what you see with the camera’s eye. When you go inside those homes and you see the way all of the furniture, all of 

the pictures on the walls—and the chairman pointed out today that 

there was a picture of the Last Supper—it looks as though you just 

walked into the twilight zone. Everything there, but in turmoil, 

and the people are gone. They lost their memories, their memorabilia, the little things that you can never ever replace with money. 

I just cannot tell you how important it was for us to have the opportunity to go through the homes. 

So Mr. Chairman, I want to—and Madam Ranking Member—I 

want to say this about a couple of things that I deem to be of paramount importance. One, we must rebuild the levee system and it 

ought to be to a category five standard. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. GREEN. We have been equivocating; we have caused a lot of 

consternation. It is time for us to be definitive and let people know 

that we are committed to this city and the State and the Gulf 

Coast. Business people are going to have some concerns as long as 

we have the levees built to less than a category five. If we really 

want businesses to relocate without hesitation or reservation or 

equivocation, rebuild the levees and let us do it to a category five 

standard. I hope that we can get that kind of commitment from our 

Government. 

I think, Mr. Chairman, Madam Ranking Member, that we must 

allow the people from New Orleans to elect their representatives. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. GREEN. If they live in Houston, Texas, they ought to be able 

to select their representatives. People who live in the United States 

who are from Mexico—and I do not begrudge them—are going to 

elect representatives in Mexico. There is no reasons why we should 

allow politics to prevent the people who were born and reared and 

who are residents of this city from electing the people of their 

choice. Because, I submit to you if they do not get the opportunity 

to do it, we may have a different look when it comes to the representation in New Orleans. I want to see them have a chance to 

vote. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. GREEN. And finally, I was born in Charity Hospital. And I 

want you to know that I am convinced that New Orleans will come 

9

back. The question that I grapple with, the thing that keeps me up 

at night, is who will come back to New Orleans? Will people who 

did not own property, who have a rich history in this city that they 

are proud of—will they have the opportunity to return? I am committed to making sure not only those who are well off and wealthy, 

but also I am committed to having the least, the last, and the lost 

return to this city as their home. 

I thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

[Applause.] 

Chairman NEY. I thank the gentlemen. 

The gentleman, Mr. Cleaver, from Missouri. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, not only for your leadership in holding this important subcommittee hearing, but for 

your steadfast support for the spending of Federal dollars to improve the quality of life for people during the pre- and post-Gulf 

Coast tragedy. 

And to our ranking member, Maxine Waters, thank you for doing 

what you always do, doing what needs to be done, and then telling 

it like it is. Thank you. 

To my friend over the years and colleague now, Congressman 

William Jefferson, thank you for hosting us along with the mayor. 

I served as the mayor of Kansas City for 8 years in the 1990s. 

It is the most difficult job in America; you are on center stage. People in the United States Senate, they can go to Washington. Members of Congress, they can go. And mayors, they have to go to the 

grocery store, to the pharmacy, and that is where the people are. 

Like a snowflake that melts under the noonday sun, the attention of America is melting away from the devastation in the Gulf 

Coast region. I have said over and over again that we suffer from 

attention deficit disorder as a Nation. We are probably about a 12-

week Nation; it is usually about 12 weeks, sometimes it is 12 

weeks and 2 days, but the truth of the matter is in about 12 weeks, 

2 days, and a couple of hours, we will forget just about anything. 

And so, we have moved on now to the Super Bowl and the 

Grammy’s. We are now looking for Desperate Housewives. We are 

not into giving attention here. And so, that is why I hope those of 

you here can appreciate the Members who are here, particularly 

our leadership. 

I just want to say one thing and then move on to my colleague. 

The issue that we have to deal with, I am not sure I realized this 

until we went through the city today, is an issue of will. What is 

the will of the nation? It will cost a truckload of money to bring 

back the Crescent City, to bring back the Big Easy—a truckload of 

money. Almost as much money as the oil companies made in the 

last quarter. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. GREEN. And they had record profits and so it is going to take 

almost that much money and I think if we have the will, we can 

do pretty much what we want to do. This is the most powerful Nation on the planet and I do not think we ought to sit around as 

Members of Congress, nor you as citizens, to accept anything less 

than bringing this city back. We are unequal in terms of the economy and in terms of our industrial capacity. And if we are not able 

to turn around one city, friends, we are sending a statement. We 

10

are talking about how we make ourselves look bad by criticizing 

the Government, but we are making a horrible statement that the 

world will be able to see and hear, that we will not take care of 

our own. Our attention is gone and maybe this hearing will bring 

our attention back. The whole world is looking at America and 

America is looking at TV. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman NEY. I thank the gentleman. 

The gentlelady from California, Ms. Watson. 

Ms. WATSON. I am not going to take much time because I am a 

visiting Member who is committed to seeing that the birthplace of 

her grandmother, who was in a convent, the Order of the Holy 

Family for 13 years, is restored. 

I want to specifically thank Mayor Nagin for coming to Los Angeles. But for your leadership and I think your show of compassion 

and passion alerted this country to the challenge that we have. 

I want to thank Bill Jefferson, probably one of the strongest and 

most profound Members of Congress, who suffered greatly, we were 

in your district. It brought tears to our eyes; it broke our hearts. 

Thank you for coming today. 

But more so, Chairman Ney, for agreeing—and we were talking 

along the way and I truly feel that he sincerely feels your pain. 

And of course, there is Maxine Waters. It has all been said; she is 

the spokesperson for all of us, the underprivileged in this country 

and we appreciate that. 

But most of all, for all of you who have come and Minister 

Farrakhan for saying that you came to listen and to learn. Thank 

you for taking the time to hear the plight. 

And we have this panel and we were invited along, so we could 

hear from you in your own words as to what your needs definitely 

are. And Chairman Ney, I think it ought to be mandatory for every 

member of every fiscal committee to come down here and view first 

hand the devastation on the Gulf Coast and to start focusing, as 

has been said, on the challenge that faces America now that the 

covers have been pulled off of poverty. And it just happens to be 

that poverty looks like us. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ranking member. 

Chairman NEY. I thank the gentlelady. 

And welcome to the committee, Congressman Melancon, who of 

course is from here in Louisiana. 

Mr. MELANCON. Thank you, chairman. I appreciate, as all the 

other Members, you taking the time and I appreciate all the members of the committee that has taken the time to come from other 

States to view New Orleans and the region. This is the region and 

New Orleans is the hub. 

Mr. Chairman, there have been requests and attempts by Louisiana delegation for a number of years to get shares of outer continental shelf revenues from royalties offshore, as the inland States 

do on Federal land. 

The people that you see here are not looking for a helping hand. 

They just want—I mean not looking for a hand out, they are looking for a helping hand. They do not want to go begging. If we had 

a share of what is rightfully Louisiana’s for the energy that we 

11

produce for this country and have produced for all these years, we 

would not have to be asking every day and begging every day for 

monies to help folks in New Orleans, St. Bernard, Plaquemines, 

and Mississippi and Alabama and now Texas and for that matter, 

Florida. But if we had that revenue, Louisiana could bond itself for 

the most part out of the situation we are in. That is a long time 

request in terms of achieving, getting this city, this region back on 

its feet and as productive as it was once for the country. 

I found out during one of the bills that were on the floor for debate, as I discussed monies with some of the other Members for 

Louisiana because of the disaster, the other thing—and this is the 

other point, and I made these to the President yesterday and asked 

him to get involved. If in fact the Congress will pass a WRDA bill, 

which is the Water Resource Development Act, which it has not 

done in 6 years. It is not the House’s problem; it is the Senate’s 

problem. But if in fact all Members of Congress would get involved, 

we could start with that offshore royalty money and with the 

WRDA bill which would give us authorizations we do not presently 

have, build the levees that we need to a category five, do the coastal restoration that is needed to protect those levees, and rebuild 

this city and this region to its once glorious presence that it did 

have. 

Those two items, if accomplished, would keep these people and 

people like Bill Jefferson and Gene Taylor and I from having to 

come and grovel and beg, because sometimes that is what it feels 

like. 

I thank you again, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Waters; you 

have taken the time and we in Louisiana and this region really do 

appreciate it. I understand that the Katrina Committee will be 

coming here hopefully in the next week and as expressed by Congressman Watson, I would like to be able to put every Member of 

Congress on the ground in this region. There has been discussions 

about the bus tours and I have mixed emotions, but I truly believe 

that if every person from this country, for that matter from other 

countries who have reached out to help us would come here see the 

devastation, understand the devastation, and speak to their Members of Congress, our job would be a whole lot easier. 

So I thank you again for being with us in New Orleans and taking the time out of what I know is all of your busy schedules. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you. 

Congressman Taylor, who also will be with us tomorrow in his 

home State of Mississippi. Thank you. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you, Chairman Ney. I want to thank all of 

my colleagues, many of whom came from clear across the country 

to be here. I hope that you will stick around for tomorrow. What 

you will discover is the flood hit New Orleans, the hurricane hit 

Mississippi. And whether it was the flood waters or a hurricane 

that destroyed your house, at the end of the day, losing your house 

is losing your house. 

I would hope for a couple of things that you come away with from 

this—this was an equal opportunity storm, particularly in the case 

of Mississippi. The richest guy in town and the poorest guy in town 

both lost their house. You will see the shameful job the insurance 

industry has done of fulfilling its obligations. 

12

[Applause.] 

[Lights blink.] 

Mr. TAYLOR. And you will also see how powerful those folks are. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. TAYLOR. But, you know, for decades collecting premiums and 

then when it comes time, finding every excuse not to pay on those 

claims. 

You will see that FEMA, although it has done a formidable job, 

still 120 days after the storm in the case of south Mississippi, there 

are 5000 families waiting on a FEMA trailer. Good news is that 

30,000 families have gotten those trailers. But still you would 

think that the greatest Nation on earth could do better than that. 

The trailers really were not designed, since this is housing and 

these are weekend trailers that people will be living in for 18 

months. And one of the things that we need to be changing as a 

Nation is that they ought to be all electric. The heat is propane 

tanks; for a healthy guy like Charlie, no big deal to change them 

out every 3 days. But if you happen to be a senior citizen, you happen to be disabled, that becomes a major obstacle and we need to 

change that. Either the Administration needs to change that or we 

need to change that. 

But you are absolutely going to be taken aback even further tomorrow at the level of devastation in south Mississippi. We still 

cannot get a count, but it is a safe guess that somewhere between 

40,000 and 50,00 homes are gone. And that in my home county, 

two-thirds of the people have either lost their home entirely or it 

is uninhabitable. 

So, again, we are glad that you are here. We want as many of 

our colleagues as possible. I do, on behalf of the people of Mississippi, want to thank you for what has already been done. And 

I think all of us would fail if we did not mention that to date something in the neighborhood of $80 billion has been appropriated. But 

there is still a heck of a lot of work that needs to be done. And we 

cannot have enough of our colleagues come down here and see the 

devastation as we ask you for additional help. 

So thank you for being here. 

Chairman NEY. And with that, we will move on to our panel and 

the first panel, we have our colleague of course, the Honorable Congressman William Jefferson. And we have the mayor of the City of 

New Orleans. Mayor, welcome also. And Mr. St. Julien, executive 

director of Finance Authority of New Orleans. Mr. Hank Williams, 

Deputy Assistant Secretary, Multi-Family Housing, Department of 

Housing and Urban Development. And Mr. Scott Wells, Federal 

Coordinating Officer, Federal Emergency Management Agency, 

FEMA, Department of Homeland Security. 

And let me just say, mayor, thank you for having us in one of 

the most wonderful cities, I have thought for years, in the world. 

And I want to give special mention to Congressman Jefferson. I 

want to thank you for helping us in arranging this and all the work 

and effort that you put into it. We will begin with our colleague, 

Congressman Jefferson. 

13

STATEMENT OF HONORABLE WILLIAM JEFFERSON, MEMBER 

OF CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 

Mr. JEFFERSON. Thank you, Chairman Ney and Ranking Member 

Waters. To both of you, I implored you to come to our city, to our 

region, and you were wonderful in your response to it. And we 

thank you very much for providing the leadership that brought this 

committee here today. 

Distinguished members of the Subcommittee on Housing and 

Community Opportunity and distinguished colleagues and friends, 

I wish to welcome you to my home district, to my home city, and 

to thank you for inviting me to testify today. I want to thank our 

mayor for joining us too. He has a wonderful attendance record in 

Washington now. He is there almost as much as we are. We appreciate his help and his commitment. 

It is extremely important that you have convened this hearing 

today at the site of the most devastating natural disaster in perhaps the entire history of the United States. Additionally, your 

visit is timely as our local and State governments are grappling 

with the very issues that your Committee will have to respond to 

over the coming months and years. 

I also appreciate the opportunity to—I appreciate the commitment that you have already shown, as my colleagues have said, to 

rebuilding New Orleans and the Gulf Coast that this committee 

has consistently shown in the months since the monster storms 

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, since these storms altered the lives 

of all of us. 

The question must not be whether New Orleans will emerge from 

these disasters, but rather how it will return. Absolutely critical to 

this recovery is the manner in which the housing crisis is addressed and how quickly and easily the displaced can find their 

way home again. In this spirit, I express my deep gratitude to this 

committee for having taken the time to tour the devastated areas 

of our city. Seeing it, one must agree, is quite different from hearing about it or reading about it. Every home, every neighborhood 

represents not just a tragic loss of property, but a tragic disruption 

in the lives of a vibrant people and a vibrant city. The people in 

the city are not just important to our region but to our entire country. 

As we think about how to deal with the problem of rebuilding the 

housing infrastructure and the communities in our city, it is important to note what truly happened here. But for the failure of our 

levee system, the flooding that has so devastated our housing stock, 

would not have occurred or would have been minimal. The losses 

that your committee bore witness to today in your tour would not 

have occurred. Because of the failures of our levees, more than 

228,000 occupied housing units, representing more than 45 percent 

of the total housing stock in the metropolitan New Orleans area, 

sustained flood waters. This total includes 120,000 owner occupied 

units and 108,000 units occupied by renters, representing 39 and 

56 percent of those respective stocks. By some reports, 108,000 of 

these households had over 4 feet of flood water in them for weeks, 

representing 50 percent of all New Orleans households. 

I just came back from a trip to the Netherlands with our two 

U.S. Senators, our Governor, and a host of city and parish leaders 

14

throughout this region. The Netherlands has a thriving economy 

and important stocks of housing in areas that are more than 20 

feet below sea level, often more than twice as much below sea level 

as any area of our city and of our region. Of the $485 billion economy of the Netherlands, more than 70 percent is derived from 

areas ranging from 15 to 27 feet below sea level. Without recovering and utilizing this area after suffering devastating flooding, 

the Netherlands would not boast the great culture and economic 

power that it does today as a nation of the world’s second largest 

port and one of Europe’s most coveted tourist destinations. 

So as we contemplate building back communities in New Orleans, the question is not whether we can build sustainable communities in every neighborhood of our city, but whether we will make 

the choice to do so. It is a matter of the vision we have for the City 

of New Orleans. Do we envision the City of New Orleans as again 

one of the major cities of our country with its distinct, vibrant, and 

historic neighborhoods fully restored and enhanced, as a leading 

port city of our country in tonnage. as a most interesting and creative cultural mecca of our Nation? If we begin with this vision 

rather than a short-term view of the challenges that we face in 

achieving it, there is little doubt that the technology exists to secure this vision for our people and our Nation, if we but have the 

political will to make the right political choices. In a $12 trillion 

economy and a $2.2 trillion annual budget, we can find a way to 

make the right choice. 

As we move forward, we must determine how to rebuild our 

housing stock and our communities scientifically, systematically, 

and democratically. We have a commitment in hand to build our 

levee system to standards not existing heretofore and a pledge to 

build a system of barrier island protection and wetland protection 

and canal protection to secure us against these ferocious storms. 

We are, therefore, prepared to confront this most extraordinary 

urban housing crisis that our country has ever witnessed. 

In doing so, we must move forward aggressively and creatively 

to resettle those displaced by the deluge in safe comfortable homes 

in economically integrated neighborhoods or, as a recent Brookings 

Institute report describes them, neighborhoods of choice and connection. Such neighborhoods may represent the best hope to solve 

many of the city’s urban ailments. They reject the concentrated 

poverty, residential segregation and economic isolation that characterized too much of our city previously. They also represent a vision 

of a city rich in economically integrated neighborhoods, attractive 

to all classes of people, with schools on a path to excellence traversed by a notably better transportation system and paths to 

great economic opportunities. 

All of this begins with getting our people a realistic plan to be 

housed, both temporarily and in the long term. In this, government 

at every level must take decisive action. The displaced citizens 

must do their part and exert their best efforts to assist in this process. But I do not believe that where government has not asked the 

question of where schools will start up and where hospitals will be 

stood up, and infrastructure like streets and lights put in place, 

that citizen groups can be expected to make plans to rebuild communities all by themselves. 

15

In the real world where people live who have been displaced from 

their homes and who have lost their property there, a world where 

insurance companies have not paid them for their losses, where 

they have run out of money and where even getting a contractor 

or an electrical inspector is a daunting if not an impossible task, 

it does not appear reasonable to expect these citizens to organize 

themselves and plan for their community survival and the restoration of their homes in a few months. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. JEFFERSON. The committee and the Congress have already 

done a great many things to relieve the housing crisis. But it continues to be a crisis nonetheless. The effect of some of our efforts 

will be felt immediately—improvement to FEMA’s temporary housing program and the 1-year deferment provided by HUD for FHAsecured loans, for example. Other efforts will yield results in the 

coming months and years. The extraordinary increase in low income housing tax credits that we just passed and enhancement of 

mortgage revenue bonds as a driver below market for displaced 

people, for example, will also be helpful. 

Next, we must continue the work that this committee has already begun by ensuring the passage of the Louisiana Recovery 

Corporation Act in short order. The bill introduced by Congressman 

Baker and supported by our Louisiana delegation and improved 

upon by members of this very committee brings a thoughtful and 

critical tool for the recovery of our homeowners. We must also provide immediate and meaningful mortgage relief to those displaced 

by the hurricane. The financial services industry has gone to great 

lengths to accommodate the victims of these storms, but their efforts are not uniform and not always helpful. I recognize, as I believe everyone does, that mortgage lenders are in the business to 

make money and situations such as we confront today are not entirely helpful to the bottom line. Moreover, mortgages are 

securitized by entities like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Countrywide, 

and others and these mortgage-backed securities are sold to bond 

holders throughout the world. Accordingly, when the lender is confronted with the decision as to how best to handle an individual 

mortgage, he or she cannot do so in a vacuum because there will 

be significant downstream effects to any decision he or she makes. 

For that reason, we should consider following approaches we 

used in our student loan programs. When students graduate from 

college or graduate from school and take those first few steps towards independence, we have long recognized that burdening those 

wobbly initial steps with a mountain of education debt is not likely 

to improve the student’s chances for success. Therefore, most student loan programs offer borrowers an automatic deferment for 1 

year. That 1 year gives borrowers the breathing room they need to 

find a job, secure a home, and brighten their path to success. 

Same can be said for thousands who have been uprooted from 

their homes and now confront the potentially unbearable burden of 

financing two homes. Without immediate uniform relief that preserves the assets of the victims of the hurricanes and keeps the 

lenders whole, we will likely see a wave of bankruptcies and foreclosures which will have a lasting and potential devastating effect 

on the families of the Gulf Coast and its recovering economy. 

16

Mindful of that, I would ask the committee to consider an automatic 1 year deferment of their mortgage obligations for homeowners living in the core disaster area with Federal financing of 

the debt service that mortgage lenders will lose during that year. 

The precise mechanism for financing, I would leave for the wisdom 

of those of you on this panel and others with greater expertise in 

this area. However, I believe it is absolutely critical that homeowners receive immediate relief, again to give them the certainty 

and breathing room that they need to recover from the devastating 

effects of the hurricanes and return to the home for which they 

have worked so hard. 

In addition, we must finish the work of the GSE reform bill, including the creation of its trust fund to finance affordable housing 

and other housing initiatives for low-and moderate-income families. 

While that program is designed to be national in scope over the 

long term, I am grateful that the resources of that trust fund are 

to be targeted through the aegis of this committee to the housing 

crisis in the GO zone during the first 1 or 2 years of the program. 

I am hopeful that the Senate would join in the House’s in action 

and move this important trust fund and its $700 million for our 

area forward. 

We must also use our community development block grant resources more creatively and much more broadly to support communities in order to rebuild this vital housing. And we must make the 

greatest use of HUD properties to rehabilitate them for use to repopulate our city, both on a temporary and a long term basis. 

At the end of the day, our objective must be that everyone who 

has been displaced through this tragic set of events called Hurricanes Katrina and Rita has both a realistic right and the realistic 

opportunity to return to their homes and pick up their lives. I believe it is the responsibility of our Government to ensure this 

chance for them. The devastation wrought by these storms is at 

once a terrible challenge out of which we must wring a tremendous 

opportunity. Our commitment must be that those who have suffered so much have not done so in vain. 

Tasked by a great and serious obligation, the Nation has the opportunity to help a great but shattered community rebuild. Not just 

to recover, but become more survivable, more sustainable, and 

more equitable and more prosperous all at once. 

I look forward to working hand in hand with you and all of our 

colleagues in Congress to achieve these daunting but fully obtainable goals. And again, I want to thank this committee. 

Chairman NEY. Thank the gentleman from Louisiana. 

[Applause.] 

Mayor Nagin, thank you. 

[The statement of Hon. William J. Jefferson can be found on 

page 93 in the appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF HONORABLE C. RAY NAGIN, MAYOR, CITY OF 

NEW ORLEANS 

Mayor NAGIN. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Congresswoman 

Maxine Waters, members of the committee, let me thank you for 

being here in New Orleans. Let me just do a time check—how 

much time do I have to spend with you today? 

17

Chairman NEY. We try to do 5 minutes; it will beep and not to 

make a difference but for the Member. We have some leeway and 

for the Mayor, we have some leeway if you go over. 

Mayor NAGIN. Well, since you have my comments in writing, if 

you do not mind, I would like to go off script for a minute if I could. 

I will try and keep to your 5 minute limit. 

Chairman NEY. Take your time, mayor. 

Mayor NAGIN. I stand before you as the mayor of the great City 

of New Orleans. I stand before you as the mayor of a city that was 

totally devastated by Hurricane Katrina. I stand before you as the 

mayor of a city where its residents were scattered throughout the 

United States and spread through 44 different States in the United 

States. Most of our citizens received one way tickets out of New Orleans. I also stand before you as the mayor of the City of New Orleans that has not been allowed to communicate with his citizens because I cannot get the list of where our citizens are because supposedly there are Federal privacy laws that prohibit that from happening. 

I am standing here or sitting here before you while I watch the 

devastation of Katrina upfront and personal. I watched people suffer. I watched people in the waters after the event. I watched bodies float in this great city. And I also watched a very lethargic response to this crisis. And I watched a great struggle between the 

Federal Government and the State government as it related to who 

had final authority and who had the power while people were suffering and dying in our city. 

And I must tell you, I sit here very frustrated today. I am frustrated because my city is without revenue streams. We have no 

money coming in or very little money. I have been put in a position 

to fly back and forth between Baton Rouge and Washington, D.C., 

to beg and grovel for money. And I do not appreciate it because I 

am looking at my city and I am looking at the debris that still 

needs to be picked up. And I am watching this incredible game 

with these contractors. 

It starts out at $43 a cubic yard to pick up debris. They subcontract that down two or three times and when we make any 

noise about locals being able to participate in this process, guess 

what? We get a couple of them to get involved. But when it starts 

out at $43 cubic yard, it is all legal, it is subcontracted down to $33 

to $15 and the local firm ends up at maybe $7 a cubic yard. And 

no one up the food chain does any work or does very little work. 

And yet and still, I have to grovel and beg for resources to stand 

my city up. And I am getting tired. I am getting tired of constantly 

being beat up. I am interacting with my citizens and they want answers. And they want to know what can be done. So it is not that 

they want a hand out. They just want to come home. 

And the biggest challenge we have right now besides the despair 

and the hopelessness is that I do not have housing for my citizens 

because 80 percent of this city went under water, 80 percent—61 

square miles. There has never been a city to experience this. If this 

would have happened in D.C., it would have covered D.C. and went 

over to Maryland. This is serious business. 

And I am telling you right now there is a request of 21,000 individual trailer sites in my city right now. There is another 8000 

18

trailer sites, group sites that we kind of approved, that we have 

gone through this dance with this not-in-my-backyard stuff that we 

are going to work through as a community. And we still have 7000 

sites that we have not been able to identify. So there is 36,000 families that need trailers in the City of New Orleans right now. And 

I have 1300 trailers installed for individual people and 551 for 

group sites. Now let me repeat those numbers; I have 36,000 people 

that have requested trailers, temporary trailers, to live in in the 

City of New Orleans. And I have less than 2000 ready to go. 

Ladies and gentlemen of this committee, it is time for action. It 

is time for us to do something special for this great city that contributes so much to this Nation. We have done just about everything that we have been asked to do. We begged for levees. We 

started out with hurricane five protection; we now think we might 

have hurricane three protection. But we are not sure about that because $1.4 billion was moved recently away from that protection. 

We have $11.5 billion that have been appropriated for CDBG 

money. 

Ms. WATERS. That is right. 

Mayor NAGIN. To come down and help us with housing—it is 

going to flow through the State. And there is no formula, zero formula, right now that that money is going to be targeted to the most 

devastated areas in this State. So I stand here as the mayor of the 

City of New Orleans very concerned about that because I think politics is going to come into play with the spending of this money. 

And I think this money is going to end up being spread out all over 

the State of Louisiana. And my citizens are not going to get their 

fair share. 

[Applause.] 

Mayor NAGIN. I hate to do this, but time is of the essence. This 

past holiday season, I watched during the event two of my police 

officers commit suicide. One, I spoke to the night before he actually 

pulled the trigger. Thanksgiving, I know of at least five suicides 

that happened in the City of New Orleans. Christmas, I am not 

sure what happened, but we will get those reports very soon. 

This is serious, serious business. And I am not trying to discount 

the efforts of this committee, but if there is some way, then this 

Nation, this Congress, this President needs to pull out all stops 

right now because the people of New Orleans are getting tired and 

they are ready to come home. And they are frustrated and they are 

peeved off. And if we do not do something soon, I do not know what 

is going to happen. 

So I implore you, I beg you, I get on my knees, I am puckering 

up. 

[Laughter.] 

Mayor NAGIN. Help us. And help us today. Help the City of New 

Orleans. This city will come back with a little help. We do not need 

$250 billion. But we need our fair share. And then, we will spend 

this money appropriately. Now we may make some mistakes, but 

everybody makes mistakes. But this is a great city. It is the city 

where jazz was born. It is a city that has elegance and wildness 

at the same time, that makes us the unique city that we are. And 

we are Americans and as Americans we deserve to be supported in 

our time of need. 

19

Thank you, so much ladies and gentlemen. 

[Applause.] 

[The statement of Hon. C. Ray Nagin can be found on page 140 

in the appendix.] 

Chairman NEY. Let me just say a couple of things. What we are 

going to do—we normally go down the witness table. What I 

thought we would do due to the mayor’s schedule and the Congressman’s schedule, we can ask questions now, if we have some, 

and then we will go on to the testimony. 

I want to mention the GSE bill the Congressman Jefferson 

talked about. That bill, we worked on that with Congresswoman 

Maxine Waters before Katrina happened. And then after Katrina 

happened, the bill got support. Of course, the bill is about a few 

other things, but the trust fund is important because it is helping 

some of the poorest of the poor. And then, it was supported—Chairman Baker, Chairman Oxley, and Barney Frank the ranking member and staff did a lot of good work. That bill is pending in the Senate. If you want to do something, pick up the phone or write a letter if you can to the United States Senators, if you know any of 

them or if you do not know any of them, just write a letter. That 

bill is pending in the Senate. We hope that the Senate and the 

House can get that bill signed. I wanted to mention it. It is a 

very—I think very, very important bill. 

Another observation and then I am going to ask a question, the 

issue that we have had up in Ohio where I live, we have people 

from this city who are in Newark where my daughter goes to school 

and in Columbus, Ohio, and other areas. And do not get me wrong, 

you know, everybody is bending over backwards to help those individuals and help with jobs and, you know, clothing and different 

things they need. But I think—and that is one of the reasons we 

are here; some of the things you talked about are going to be global 

in the Congress with, you know, the dollars. And we have individuals, but we have some direct jurisdiction over housing. And I have 

been asking some questions about the housing issues. And again, 

we are willing to help in Ohio. We are willing to help in any State. 

But if you say to somebody, here is your choice, you can go to Columbus, Ohio, or you can go to Seattle or you can go to Philadelphia and that is your choice, then you do not have a choice. And 

so, there is a lot of people that want to be here and they have relatives here. So I think that just the idea that scattering people 

across the Nation is going to cure it, it is not going to cure it psychologically. It is not going to cure it for those families. It is not 

going to cure it here for this city. So I have always been worried 

if we do not move faster—and we can always do better and do 

more—then we are going to have that situation. And people are 

going to be lost for their families. If you asked me to move out of 

my area and move to New York City, I do not want to do that if 

something happened. I would do it if I had to. But so there were 

not a lot of options for people. 

What I am going to do at this point in time—I just wanted to 

make some of those comments. I have some other questions, but I 

am going to defer to our ranking member for questions. 

Ms. WATER. I thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I would like 

to say to Bill Jefferson, thank you for helping to organize us to be 

20

here today and for the work that you have been doing to try to 

focus this Congress on the needs of this area. I do appreciate that. 

And to the mayor, I thank you because you have traveled to 

Washington; you have been there; you have answered questions. 

You have done a magnificent job of making yourself available. And 

even today I know that you had to take some extraordinary steps 

in order to be here. 

Mr. Mayor, there are some things that I am determined that I 

am going to get some answers to today. And in order to do that I 

have to beg the indulgence of my chairman to allow me to deal 

with these three issues that I am kind of getting double talk about. 

First, the trailers, Mr. Wells, you represent FEMA here today, is 

that right? 

Mr. WELLS. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. Well, I hope you came with information because I 

do not want you to answer me that you do not know, you are not 

the right one. So I have asked my staff to get your boss on the line 

while I am talking to you because I want to get some answers 

about the trailers. 

[Applause.] 

Ms. WATER. I am told by policy that you have enough trailers, 

that the manufacturing is such that you are manufacturing an adequate amount of trailers, that you have trailers on the ground that 

are stored that can be used here in New Orleans and other places 

in the Gulf. And I am told that all they need is the authority to 

put these trailers in place where the mayor and others will allow 

them. 

[Microphone feedback noise.] 

Ms. WATERS. I do not know what is going on here. 

Chairman NEY. Could we get a little bit of help on the mics, if 

we could. 

Ms. WATERS. Now I want to know from you—I want to know 

from you—give me an assessment of how many trailers are being 

manufactured, how many are in the pipeline, how many do you 

have sitting waiting to be sited and whether or not the trailers that 

the mayor needs are available. And I want to know whether or not 

you have problems with authorization, that you do not have the authorization to put the trailers down. And after you give me that assessment, I am coming back to the mayor to find out whether or 

not this is an authorization problem also. Tell us what you know 

about trailers. 

Mr. WELLS. Okay, thank you very much. First thing I want to 

say, there is not just one problem, Congressman Waters; there is 

many different problems. Let us talk about production, the manufacturers. We are told that the manufacturers can produce travel 

trailers at a rate of 550 per day. That is not a limiting factor for 

us. We have several thousand in storage in Louisiana. They flow 

in by rail into New Orleans every day. They flow into our storage 

sites every day. The manufacturing part is not a problem. 

Ms. WATERS. You have trailers? 

Mr. WELLS. We have trailers. 

Ms. WATERS. Do you know how many you have that are in storage now? 

Mr. WELLS. We have— 

21

Ms. WATERS. Totally. 

Mr. WELLS. I do not know totally, but in the State of Louisiana 

within our storage sites probably around 2500. But we have never 

been limited by travel trailers. That has not been a limiting factor. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay, so if you have 2500 in storage here, do you 

have other trailers that are in other locations that can be brought 

to Louisiana? 

Mr. WELLS. Oh, yes, they come in all the time. 

Ms. WATERS. How many trailers do you need, Mr. Mayor? 

Mayor NAGIN. 36,000 total. 

Ms. WATERS. How many trailers, if you had all of the infrastructure, that is, the ability to hook up with the electricity and the 

water, sewage all of that, how many trailers could you have in Louisiana for the mayor of those that he just mentioned, those 30,000 

or so? 

Mr. WELLS. We are doing—we are putting 500 families in travel 

trailers, mobile homes per day; that is an average. That is the average. 

Ms. WATERS. The mayor says he cannot get the trailers he needs. 

Mr. Mayor? 

Mayor NAGIN. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. Why can you not get the trailers you need? Do you 

not have the production? Do you not have the ability to provide the 

infrastructure or are you not giving the authorization? What is the 

truth here? 

Mayor NAGIN. Well, you know, there are two separate issues. 

The first one is on the 21,000 trailers, the individual sites where 

a homeowner wants a trailer on their particular property. You 

know, in fairness to Scott and to FEMA, we have had some issues 

with permitting and electrical inspectors and Entergy has filed for 

bankruptcy, which created a problem also with their inspectors. We 

have since streamlined a lot of those processes. So from that standpoint, you know, everything is in place for us to move very quickly 

to accommodate those. I have approved 8000 units to go on group 

sites, which we have had a little bit of controversy about, but we 

have worked that out. There is still 7000 sites that we need to 

identify that we have not identified. That leaves us with a total of 

29,000 that we could take tomorrow if we had the capacity to put 

them in. 

Ms. WATERS. Let us be very, very clear. The 21,000 individual 

sites, these are sites where homeowners say put a trailer here on 

my land or you have a business or someone offering you space. 

Mayor NAGIN. Right. 

Ms. WATERS. Where they say you can use this. 

Mayor NAGIN. Right. 

Ms. WATERS. And what you are telling me is you have some inspection problems and some other kind of problems that does not 

allow you to be able to fulfill those requests, is that right? 

Mayor NAGIN. We have solved most if not all of those issues. 

Ms. WATERS. When can you get the 21,000 done if those have 

been solved, if those problems have been solved? 

Mayor NAGIN. It is just a matter of the availability of the trailer. 

Ms. WATERS. The trailers are available, is that right? 

22

Mr. WELLS. I said the travel trailers are not a limiting factor. 

What is the limiting factor? What I think you are trying to get to 

is the limiting factor is a host of things. One of them is within New 

Orleans, the infrastructure. With— 

Ms. WATERS. No, no, no, the mayor said that if he gets the trailer, he could put 21,000 on the ground, hooked up, whatever is 

needed for 21,000 people now. Do you have the trailers? 

Mr. WELLS. Madam, we do not have—it is not—the limiting factor is many things. I am going to repeat it. You cannot take 21—

what you are asking, Madam, is you cannot take nine women, put 

them in one room and make a baby in one month. You cannot do 

that. Cannot do that. 

[Audience response.] 

Mr. WELLS. You cannot do that. You have to follow a process of 

getting electricity— 

Chairman NEY. If you could suspend, please. 

Ms. WATERS. Hold on, hold on, hold on. 

Chairman NEY. Please. May I please remind the audience that 

we are here to resolve some important issues. And I understand 

your feelings, but if we could please have some order, it will help 

resolve that. 

Ms. WATERS. Let us back up. Let us not talk about 21,000 trailers. Let us talk about one trailer. What do you need in order to fulfill a request for one trailer of these 21,000 that the mayor needs 

and is ready to accept? 

Mr. WELLS. We need the trailer. 

Ms. WATERS. You got the trailer. You are manufacturing them at 

550 per day. You have the trailer. Now what do you need? 

Mr. WELLS. We go and do a site assessment to make sure that 

the site is feasible and then if the site is feasible then a team goes 

out. 

Ms. WATERS. How many site assessments of these 21,000 that 

the mayor is ready to put down have you done? 

Mr. WELLS. I do not know about New Orleans; I can give you on 

statewide site assessments. 

Ms. WATERS. No, I just want to know about New Orleans now. 

Mr. WELLS. I do not have that broken out. 

Ms. WATERS. Do you have problems doing site assessments? Do 

you have enough people to do site assessments? 

Mr. WELLS. Site assessment is not a limiting factor. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay, so that is not a problem. What is your next 

problem? And how many of the 21,000 can you have done in 7 

days, in the next seven days? How many of these 21,000 that the 

mayor is ready to authorize can you do? How long does it take you 

to do a site assessment? 

Mr. WELLS. Not long at all to do a site assessment. 

Ms. WATERS. So that is not a problem. You can do the site assessments for the 21,000. What is your next problem? 

Mr. WELLS. Contractors. Getting the—that is probably the biggest limiting factor is crews to do the installation. 

Ms. WATERS. Who does the installations? 

Mr. WELLS. We have three contractors. 

Ms. WATERS. Who are these contractors? 

Mr. WELLS. Fluour, Shaw, and C.M. Hill. 

23

Ms. WATERS. Let us stop right now. You are telling me that the 

no-bid contractors that we were all concerned about because they 

we’re well-connected and they got their contracts without a bid cannot do the work; is that what you are telling me? 

[Applause.] 

Mr. WELLS. No, ma’am. What I am telling you, I think one of 

them was a bid. I think the Fluour was a bid contract. 

Ms. WATERS. Whether it was a bid or no bid, they cannot get this 

work done? 

Mr. WELLS. Not as fast as needed, that is exactly what I am telling you. 

Ms. WATERS. Well, let us stop right here. We have got the trailers and we have the authorizations, Mr. Jefferson. We have got 

FEMA, who can do the assessments and now we have contractors, 

whether it is bid or no bid with contractors, who cannot get these 

trailers hooked up and ready for use. Then what should FEMA do 

in order to expedite getting these trailers on the ground so that 

people can move into them. Do not forget that FEMA has set a 

deadline date and they keep setting deadline dates by which people 

must get out of these hotels. If you can set a deadline date and the 

deadline date does not match up to your ability to put the trailers 

on the ground, something is wrong here. Now what do you do—

what then do you do to solve an obvious problem? 

[Applause.] 

Ms. WATERS. What do you do to expedite getting these trailers 

done by the crews that are supposed to—or expanding the crews. 

I understand we have still got money, in this 62 or 80 billion, whatever this number is. What are you supposed to be doing to get it 

done? 

Mr. WELLS. I will tell you exactly what we are doing. We are 

doing different things. It is not all about travel trailers; it is not 

all about mobile homes. It is also about getting money into the 

pockets of the people who had losses. We are putting out almost, 

almost a $1 million an hour 24 hours a day 7 days a week for individuals and families to help them recover and make up for their 

losses. That is one thing that we are doing. A large part— 

Ms. WATERS. What does that have to do with what I am asking 

you about? 

Mr. WELLS. A large part of that is for rental assistance to where 

individuals and families can go and rent. 

Ms. WATERS. Well, that is what you are supposed to be doing. 

Now that is going to end at some point. 

Mr. WELLS. No, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. Well, even if it does not, but you want the people 

out of the hotels, is that right? 

Mr. WELLS. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. Where are they supposed to go, sir? 

Mr. WELLS. We want to give people viable options. 

Ms. WATERS. No, they just want a trailer. 

Mr. WELLS. That is one of the viable options. 

Ms. WATERS. That is okay. If people had viable options that they 

could exercise, they would be doing it. I have heard all of this talk 

about people putting together their own plans, et cetera. We have 

a lot of people in hotels, in relatives’ homes across the country who 

24

want to come home, but would like a nice trailer to come to. Now 

given all, whatever the other things that you must do, all I want 

to talk to you now about is trailers. 

Mr. WELLS. Okay. 

Ms. WATERS. I want the trailers that are being manufactured 

that somebody is making a lot of money on. I want the trailers that 

are in storage that somebody is making a lot of money on to store. 

I want them where the mayor wants to put them so that people 

can live in them. What then do you do about getting more crews, 

about getting you contractors to do a faster job, hiring more people, 

putting more people on line. What are you doing to get those trailers operable? 

Mr. WELLS. Yes, ma’am. We have been working with the contractors. They have gone up from about 30 travel trailers a day to 500. 

They are continuing to ramp up; they are continuing to make 

progress. They are not making as much progress as you want, as 

we want. 

Ms. WATERS. No, no, no, no, not as much progress as I want, but 

as much progress as the people who have been displaced would like 

to have. 

Mr. WELLS. Exactly. 

[Applause.] 

Ms. WATERS. Again, you cannot keep, you have to take this heat 

today. You are here. 

Mr. WELLS. I can— 

Ms. WATERS. Do not take it personally, but you are here to answer this. You keep setting dates by which these people have to be 

out of these hotels. You keep talking about people making plans. 

But you cannot match the dates that you are putting out there. 

You cannot match those dates in assisting people to have this housing. And I want to tell you, FEMA kind of led me to believe they 

were not getting authorizations, Mr. mayor. That is why it is so important to get this cleared up today. 

Now you say that your contractors are doing a better job, but it 

is not good enough, Mr. Wells. They are not being able to get these 

trailers operating fast enough to get people out of these hotels and 

into a trailer to have a decent place to live even by your deadline 

date. What then is the answer? What is Mr. Pauleson or whoever 

has that responsibility in FEMA, what are you going to do to rectify this situation? Did anybody tell you before you came here? 

Mr. WELLS. We have tried other things, too, a new initiative 

where we are working with New Orleans, GNO, Inc. in New Orleans. 

Ms. WATERS. What is GNO, Inc.? 

Mr. WELLS. Greater New Orleans, Inc. and others in the State 

to where FEMA can lease an entire apartment complex from an 

owner and put eligible applicants into that complex. That is a relatively new initiative that we kicked off about 3 weeks ago to supplement the travel trailer, mobile home program that we have. 

Ms. WATERS. So you cannot get the travel trailers up fast 

enough. And now you are looking at some other alternatives by 

which you can lease whole complexes? 

Mr. WELLS. Yes. 

Ms. WATERS. To place people. 

25

Mr. WELLS. Yes. 

Ms. WATERS. But you have not gotten that done yet. 

Mr. WELLS. We are working on it, yes, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. Now let me ask this; we have a lot of people who 

are unemployed. We have a lot of people who would like to come 

home and have a job. One of the reasons I am interested in these 

travel trailers getting up is not only to have a better quality of life, 

but so that people can have some jobs, so that they can earn some 

money, so that they can help put their lives back together. 

One of the things that I am hearing is that they do not have 

enough workers in the restaurants. I was in a restaurant last night 

that normally has 500 workers, employees and they were working 

managing three restaurants with less than 200 employees. And 

there was one third the number on the floor last night they are 

supposed to have. This is never going to happen until we get the 

people back. So what then do we do, because I want the crews. 

We cannot wait until Fluour and Shaw and the rest of them find 

a way by which to do what we contracted with them to do. We need 

to expand that—and this business about leasing, that is okay too. 

If you are going to lease, but you cannot lease and say that you 

are going to do it for 6 months and if we have not done the trailers, 

people are going to have to get out of the places that we leased. 

The reason that I like the idea of trailers is that you are not going 

to have to any deadline dates by which you are going to kick people 

out on the street and hopefully that would be the transition until 

we can get people into permanent housing. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Will the gentlewoman yield? 

Ms. WATERS. Yes. 

Mr. TAYLOR. The gentlewoman from California needs to know 

that a deadline has been set for occupancy of the trailers and it is 

18 months from the day of the event. So if you do not get you trailer for 12 months, then you only get to live in it for 6 months. That 

is the rule. Now the rule can change, but that is the rule as of this 

moment. 

Ms. WATERS. Mr. Taylor, when we get back to Washington, with 

the help of our chairman, we are going to introduce whatever legislation that is needed to repeal that. I do not think it is even in law; 

it must be a regulation of some kind developed by FEMA. So we 

will take care of that. We are not going to have a deadline date on 

the trailers. Okay, members of this committee? Mr. Taylor, we are 

not going to have a deadline date on the trailers. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. WELLS. It is a statute, but the statute does allow for an extension. 

Ms. WATERS. Well, we need to repeal that, Mr. Chairman. There 

should be no deadline date on the trailers. 

Well what you are telling me is that you do not have any answers. 

Mr. WELLS. No, ma’am, that is not what I am telling you. 

Ms. WATERS. Yes, you are. 

Mr. WELLS. No, ma’am. What I am telling you is that we are 

doing everything as fast as we can with what we have got and we 

are putting 500 families into homes, travel trailers every day. We 

26

are putting about a $1 million every hour into individuals’ and 

families’ pockets. 

Ms. WATERS. That is not good enough. 

Mr. WELLS. I know it is not good enough. 

Ms. WATERS. Let me tell you; we spend a $1 billion a week in 

Iraq. 

[Applause.] 

Chairman NEY. I just want to say that we have got to have some 

decorum in the audience because this will take time away from listening and from answers, so if we could please have your indulgence. Keep your enthusiasm, but let us have your indulgence to 

try not to have any display. 

Ms. WATERS. We can go on with this, but now it is very clear to 

me. At least we have cleared up, Mr. Mayor, it is not your lack of 

authorization. It is your inability to have enough crews by which 

to do the completion work to make those trailers work. And you are 

slow in being able to use the alternative that you have attempted 

to describe, of leasing the apartment complexes—that is clear to 

me. 

Mr. WELLS. There is more to that; it is not that simple. This not 

a simple issue. This is not a simple problem. Part of it is the authorization. We put—let me give you one example. We put travel 

trailers into a travel trailer park we have. And a councilman took 

them out. He took them out. That is true; that happened. 

Ms. WATERS. Just a minute. 

Mr. WELLS. Yes, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. You are going to tell me that a city councilman took 

his truck and backed up and pulled out trailers out of a park? Is 

that what you are telling me? 

Mr. WELLS. I did—not exactly. I am saying he said we had to— 

Ms. WATERS. I do not care what he said. What did he do? 

Mr. WELLS. We took. 

Ms. WATERS. Why did you take them out? 

Mr. WELLS. Because the city councilman said. 

Ms. WATERS. The city councilman does not have the ability to 

make you pull out trailers from a trailer park. Why did you do it? 

Mr. WELLS. We are supporting the local officials. 

Ms. WATERS. Oh, wait just a minute. Mr. Mayor, I know you 

have land use authority. If the trailers were there in the first place, 

somebody authorized them to be there. I suspect it was the mayor 

and the mayor’s office who authorized them to be there. Since 

when or how, maybe there was a vote that was taken in the city 

council. And maybe there was a vote that overrode the mayor. But 

if there was a vote that overrode the mayor, with some kind of law 

it would have had to be signed by the mayor or vetoed. How then 

did a city councilman make you come and take out trailers that you 

had put down. 

Mr. WELLS. He did not make us. We work with the mayor, the 

parish presidents, city councilmen because this is their domain and 

we do not set up group sites unless we get their approval. That is 

a problem too because we do have people who do not want travel 

trailer parks. 

Ms. WATERS. We know that. We know we have people that do not 

want trailers. Mr. Mayor, how did it happen that there was authorVerDate 0ct 09 2002 16:04 Jun 20, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\DOCS\109.69 RODNEY
27

izations for trailers to be put down and FEMA went and took them 

out because some city councilman did not want them. 

Mayor NAGIN. You know, the city council did express concerns 

about some trailer sites. And there was a period of time when there 

was a veto and an override of a veto and then basically we cleared 

it up by basically saying as long as the city is in a state of emergency that I have full authority on designating these trailers sites. 

So we went through a period of time when that was not clear to 

FEMA. It was always clear to me. But obviously, it was not clear. 

Ms. WATERS. So am I to understand that FEMA is not going to 

go back and take out trailers once you authorize them? 

Mayor NAGIN. You are going to have to ask them that. But let 

me just point out something to you. I approved 8000 travel trailer 

sites. And we went through this process and got to an understanding on those. But there are still 21,000 requests for individual 

sites on individuals’ homes that if we put some focus on that, I 

think that we can make some serious progress. 

Ms. WATERS. He does not have the crews to get them done. You 

do not have the crews to get them in those 21,000 sites, is that 

right? 

Mr. WELLS. In what time frame are we talking about? 

Ms. WATERS. Yesterday. 

Mr. WELLS. No, I do not. I cannot do it by yesterday. 

Ms. WATERS. How long will it take you to do it? 

Mr. WELLS. Right now, I can promise you 500 a day because that 

is what we can do. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay, how do we increase that from 500 to 1000 

a day? I know we are not going another 5 months with this business. How—how do we increase the number of people who are involved in putting these trailers in, the crews that you need? How 

do you do that? 

Mr. WELLS. We do that by working with the contractors and giving them quotas and working with them and helping work through 

the problems. One example is they came back and they said they 

had a problem because Entergy was in bankruptcy and they did 

not have enough crews and they were prohibited from working on 

weekends. They were prohibited from working overtime and they 

did not have enough crews for the electrical part that Entergy is 

supposed to do. So the Federal Government spent $20 million to 

get a contractor to do the part that Entergy is supposed to. And 

then Entergy then came back and said we have got to inspect the 

stuff that we asked you guys to do. And that created another delay. 

Ms. WATERS. So what you are telling me is that—is it Entergy. 

Mr. WELLS. Entergy, yes, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. Was supposed to do the electrical work, is that 

right? 

Mayor NAGIN. Inspections. 

Ms. WATERS. Inspections. They went bankrupt, is that right? 

Mayor NAGIN. That is correct. 

Ms. WATERS. And you contracted with someone to come in and 

do the inspection work that Entergy was supposed to do, is that 

right? 

28

Mr. WELLS. Not exactly. We actually did some of the work that 

they were supposed to do, running the power from the street all the 

way to the house or to the travel trailer. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay, so you did the work, whoever did the work. 

And then, Entergy came back and told you that they had to do the 

inspections. Because if they did not do the inspections what was 

going to happen? 

Mr. WELLS. Put the meters in, we wanted to put the meters in 

and they said, no we have to put the meters in. We said, we can 

put the meters in and so, it was a matter of them putting the meters in, running the last part and doing the inspection. 

Ms. WATERS. Excuse me, Mr. Mayor, why then could not FEMA 

who claimed it had to pick up where Entergy dropped the ball, why 

could not they just complete the work? Who cares what Entergy 

thinks at this point? What happens if they do not do the inspections and they did put in the boxes and they did do the inspections, 

what happens? 

Mayor NAGIN. I am not that close to it. You know, I would think 

you would have to get meters from Entergy, right, Scott? 

Mr. WELLS. You do, but they wanted to do the meters themselves 

and we said, just let us do the meters because you do not have 

enough folks. And you cannot, you know, you cannot work overtime 

and on weekends. 

Ms. WATERS. Excuse me, the meters. Where do you get the meters from if you were going to put them in? 

Mr. WELLS. I got them from Entergy. 

Ms. WATERS. Is there anyplace else you can get them other than 

Entergy? 

Mr. WELLS. I think it is a matter of protocol. 

Ms. WATERS. I do not care about protocol. Where else could you 

get the meters? 

Mr. WELLS. I do not think that is the issue, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. Well, I am asking you. Do you know whether or not 

you could have gotten the boxes someplace else? 

Mr. WELLS. What I know is that Entergy, for whatever reason, 

did not do what they normally do for their part for the electrical 

part. Without electricity, you cannot put travel trailers in; that is 

what I know. What I know is we did a work around by doing—by 

obligating $20 million to try to do that part. We put the $20 million, we put the contractor out and it still did not work because of 

Entergy not allowing us to do the full part that we thought we 

were going to be able to do. That is the part I know, and those 

travel trailers never got electricity. 

Ms. WATERS. Excuse me, Mr. Mayor, how is it that Entergy can 

stop you from doing what needed to be done to get those trailers 

hooked up to electricity? How would they stop you? They put a gun 

to your head? 

Mr. WELLS. We can put—the travel trailers are there, ma’am. 

They are sitting there; the travels trailers are there; they just do 

not have electricity. 

Ms. WATERS. What do we need to do to put the electricity in? 

Mr. WELLS. We need Entergy to do their part. 

29

Ms. WATERS. What if Entergy does not do it; would you wait forever if they decided that they could not do it? Is there another way 

to do it? 

Mr. WELLS. We talked to the mayor; we talked to the Governor; 

we had a meeting. We got fixes in place; that is being fixed. 

Ms. WATERS. No, I asked a question. If Entergy never really cooperated with you, what would be the alternative? Would you wait 

forever and just sit there and say it cannot be done if they did not 

do it? Is there another way by which to get it done? 

Mr. WELLS. I do not know of another way, no. 

Ms. WATERS. Why is that, sir? Why is it that nothing can be 

done? Let me tell you why I am asking. I am asking because as 

I understand it, in New York with 9-11, they brought people in 

from all over the world to do what needed to be done in order to 

get that city up and running. 

[Applause.] 

Ms. WATERS. They had people who even came and went underground and underwater and did mapping. They had that electricity 

back up. I want to tell you what is shameful. It is shameful for us 

to be here today and to go through communities that do not have 

basic electricity. Do you know what one of the big issues is with 

Iraq? Getting that electricity up and that energy going. I cannot 

imagine why it cannot be done here in New Orleans. Now FEMA, 

tell me if Entergy did not cooperate with you, could not do, would 

not do, would you sit here forever and not get it done? 

Mr. WELLS. No, ma’am, we are not sitting here forever. That is why we got the $20 million. That is why we went to see the Governor and the Mayor. We put fixes in. This is a progressive thing; 

as we see problems, we fix the problems. We do not sit around and 

say oh, we cannot do that. 

Ms. WATERS. But you are talking about it is going to take you 

6 months to put in the mayor’s 21,000 trailers. But you are saying 

that people have to be out of their hotels by March. And you are 

also saying that you do not have the leases done on the alternative 

sites, leased sites that you are talking about. So you know that 

there is a date certain again that you are trying to get to. But you 

cannot tell me that you are going to have these 21,000 trailers up 

for another 6 months maybe because of Entergy and your contractors who are not able to do it fast enough; but you do not have any 

other alternative. Is that what you are telling me? 

Mr. WELLS. No, ma’am. What I am telling you is that we do have 

alternatives. We have several hundred brand new travel trailers, 

mobile homes, brand new, ready for occupancy in other parts of the 

State and we cannot get people in them. They are available. They 

are new. The keys are ready to go. Ready to move in. It is just not 

where people want to go. 

Ms. WATERS. Well, let us not go there. Let us go down to this 

21,000 the mayor has got authorized. Before we do that because we 

have not even talked about Mr. Taylor, who talked to you and 

thanked you for what you have done. But he talked about how 

many other people are waiting. We have not even gotten to Mississippi yet. But while we are here in New Orleans, tell me how 

you are going to get 21,000 trailers that have been authorized by 

the mayor in in the next 30 days. Thirty days, just tell me that. 

30

Mr. WELLS. Twenty one thousand in 30 days, that is just not 

going to happen. Based on the capacity we have now in New Orleans, that is not going to happen. We do have brand new trailers, 

mobile homes ready for people to move in. They are just not in New 

Orleans. People are not—I think it is very important, and you have 

come here to learn. I think it is a very important message to get 

out. Two things, one that FEMA is committed that anybody that 

had losses and is eligible for FEMA assistance is going to have a 

viable option for housing. They are going to have money in their 

pockets to rent an apartment or a home or they will have a travel 

trailer or mobile home. They may not get their first option. They 

may not get an apartment or mobile home or travel trailer in the 

New Orleans area for several months because the infrastructure is 

just not there. 

Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I am going yield back my time. But 

let me tell you this, Mr. Wells. I do not want you to take this personally. First of all, I just do not believe you. I do not believe you 

because, number one, what you have not shared with this committee is the notion that each of those individuals in hotels that 

have been threatened with a deadline date have to come up with 

a plan. We have not talked about the plan at all. And this plan is 

a plan by which they must submit to FEMA that they had thought 

through where they are going, how they are going, how long it is 

going to be, et cetera, et cetera. 

Now let me tell you, Mr. Wells, and I will tell Mr. Pauleson this. 

It does not make good sense to me because I saw a woman on television about 70 years old who does not know what the hell you are 

talking about when you talk about a plan. And you do not have 

anybody there to assist her in putting together this so-called plan. 

She does not have an alternative; that is number one. 

Number two, I do not care what Fluour’s problem is. I do not 

care what Shaw’s problem is. I do not care what these big contractors who have got no bid or bid contracts—I do not care what their 

problems are. The fact of the matter is we need them to deliver. 

I am not here to tell the people of New Orleans or Mississippi to 

be patient. And I do not want to get anybody in trouble. But I am 

not George W. Bush to come here to try to make people feel good 

about the position that they found themselves in. I am here to try 

and find out what is wrong with this system, why we cannot have 

electricity, why we cannot have trailers, why we cannot move people out of hotels. I am here because there are hotels telling people 

they want them out by Mardi Gras time. I am here to find out why 

FEMA cannot do better and even though you think FEMA is doing 

the best job that it can do, it is not good enough, sir. 

And I want you to know and I do not want you to take this personally, FEMA does not have the best reputation in the world. 

Your response was slow here. People were in that dome and outside of that convention center with America watching begging for 

help with signs that said please help me, I am drowning. You did 

not even know they were there. So you do not have a good reputation. And we do not believe you when you say that nothing else can 

be done. We are here to say that it has to be done. And I do not 

care about Entergy or anybody else. We have to find the people 

31

wherever they are to come in here and get the work done. It is not 

fair to ask the people to continue to wait. 

[Applause.] 

Ms. WATERS. So Mr. Chairman, you have been more than generous with your time. I think at least we have unveiled something 

here. We have unveiled something here about some of the misinformation that we are getting about the ability to get these trailers 

on the ground, Mr. Taylor. And we are going to hear some of the 

same thing I guess about Mississippi. 

So with that, I am going to back off of Mr. Wells for a while. I 

am going to Mr. Pauleson. But Mr. Chairman, what we have got 

to do is we have to get people on the ground here inside FEMA and 

these contractors, these contractors, moving this agenda. It is unacceptable what we have heard from you here today. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman NEY. We are going to move on, but I want to make one 

comment. You have got to understand too in Washington since this 

started, we have been on this issue because the trailers seemed the 

way the people could remain here versus being scattered across the 

country. But in D.C., it has been quoted, I think it has been 

quoted, that thousands of these could be produced with the drop of 

a hat. That is what we have been told. And FEMA—in fact FEMA 

asked for an unusual amount of these trailers and then was criticized by some people, what do you want all those trailers for? It 

was like 100,000 of them, I think, they requested when this started 

if I remember correctly. 

Ms. WATERS. They did. 

Chairman NEY. I want to know what happened with those. 

Ms. WATERS. And I still want him to reiterate how many are sitting in storage somewhere. And where are these storage places? 

How many trailers are completed and sitting up there that you 

would draw on for this 550 per day that you can put up? 

Mr. WELLS. Well, it is a just-in-time thing. They come from the 

manufacturers every day. Within the State of Louisiana we have 

2000 or 3000, about 2500. But they come in every day. Again, that 

is not a limiting factor for us. We are never for want of a travel 

trailer. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay. 

Mr. WELLS. That is not keeping us—we never say oh, there is not 

one there, so we are at work stoppage. That is not causing work 

stoppage. 

Mr. JEFFERSON. What does he need to get this production up 

from 500 a day to some other number? What is required to do that? 

Mr. WELLS. We need I guess two things. And the first thing that 

we need is more contractor capability and we do need to get the 

group sites, approval for more group sites. It takes awhile to get 

these group sites up. An individual site— 

Chairman NEY. Who approves—two questions. Entergy, just for 

my edification, that is a private company, correct, Entergy? 

Mr. WELLS. It has some relationship with the city; maybe the 

mayor can elaborate on that. 

Chairman NEY. Oh, it is; is it a muni? 

Ms. WATERS. It is private. 

32

Chairman NEY. It is not a muni; it is a private utility. Then you 

just made the statement and I interrupted myself and I forget exactly how you said it. Site approvals. What is that? Is that a problem within here? What is the site approval problem you have got? 

Mr. WELLS. For individual sites, it is not an issue because if an 

owner calls up and they are trying— 

Chairman NEY. I saw some today. 

Mr. WELLS. But for group sites where we have to put renters in 

the group sites, the local officials have to approve that. 

Chairman NEY. Would you call that a mobile home park? 

Mr. WELLS. Yes. A mobile home park, travel trailer park. 

Chairman NEY. Okay. 

Mr. WELLS. Yes, sir. 

Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, that is not the problem because it 

does not matter whether it is an individual site or a group site, you 

cannot get them done. 

Mr. WELLS. Ms.— 

Ms. WATERS. You cannot get them up because Entergy and the 

contractors cannot do the work that you need to be done, you need 

to have done in order to get them up. Now as I understand it, these 

contracts that you have, you have an escape clause in the contract 

with Fluour, is that right? You can get out of these contracts any 

time you want. Do you have an escape clause if they are not performing to the capacity? 

Mr. WELLS. I am sure there are provisions for that, yes, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. I beg your pardon. You have escape clauses. Does 

anybody know this stuff. Who has—who knows what the contracts 

entail here? Have you seen a contract? 

Mr. WELLS. I have not read the contract, no, ma’am. 

Ms. WATERS. So you do not know about whether or not there is 

an escape clause? 

Mr. WELLS. I know that we can get out of the contract. I mean 

the limit—the agreement for the contract, they have already met 

that. 

Ms. WATERS. Let me ask you something. If you hired 100 new 

small businesses and gave them X number of trailers to put up, 

could you not get that done? 

Mr. WELLS. We have tried things like that. 

Ms. WATERS. Ah, come on. 

Mr. WELLS. I will give you two examples. We went with two parishes. We went with St. Bernard Parish and with the parish president; we gave him 50 travel trailers and he is hiring people to install those. So that is an option. That is an option for parish presidents, the mayor, anybody. We will give them travel trailers and 

they can hire people to install them. We are doing that. 

Ms. WATERS. Wait just a minute. If you give them the travel 

trailers, do you give them the FEMA money that comes along with 

it? 

Mr. WELLS. Here is how it works. 

Chairman NEY. We are going to have to move on. 

Mr. WELLS. We give them the travel trailers. They would hire 

somebody to haul and install and then submit the bills to us under 

public assistance. And we could reimburse them. 

33

Ms. WATERS. No, let me—I am going to leave this alone. Mr. Taylor, Mr. Melancon, we need to take a look at this. We need to take 

a look at it because—if they have the ability to hire people to do 

this work, you are talking about a city with no money and you are 

asking them to go out and contract with no revenue streams and 

wait for you to reimburse them. I would not trust FEMA to reimburse me once I made a contract. That money needs to flow, Mr. 

Melancon, ahead of time so that they have the money in the bank 

by which to pay local small businesses to get this work done, and 

I am going to leave that with you. 

Mr. MELANCON. If I could, Mr. Chairman. Most of the small contractors that are doing the work are calling and complaining because they are not getting paid fast enough. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Mr. Chairman, if I may. 

Chairman NEY. And I would note we have a second panel, and 

out of due respect to them we have got to move on. 

Go ahead. 

Mr. TAYLOR. To this point, what you are going to find tomorrow 

in Mississippi is that since the storm, about 95 percent of the work 

in my Congressional office has been exactly to this point. To Ms. 

Waters’ point, Ms. Waters, please. 

Ms. WATERS. Yes. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Okay, since, for whatever reason, the gentleman did 

not answer the question, it takes three things to set up a travel 

trailer. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay. 

Mr. TAYLOR. You have to send a crew out to identify where the 

sewer line was. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay. 

Mr. TAYLOR. You have to have running water. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay. 

Mr. TAYLOR. And you have to have electricity. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay. 

Mr. TAYLOR. You or I could probably go and find some healthy 

eighth graders and in a matter of hours train them to do the water 

and the sewer, PVC pipe—no I am serious. PVC pipe is very easy; 

hooking a water hose is very easy. The technical part is the electricity. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay. 

Mr. TAYLOR. In that you can either burn up the trailer and the 

occupants or kill the person hooking it up. That does require a 

skill. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Now what I have been frustrated about in Mississippi is just the opposite. In Mississippi, why I am frustrated is 

you are sending out one crew to erect a temporary power pole for 

the electricity to go to the trailer. But the power company is also 

sending out another crew to go from the street line to the power 

pole. And what I have been begging FEMA to do is to combine that. 

Just send one crew out and whoever is going to run it from the 

street line to that power pole is also the same company that is 

going to run it to trailer. There is no reason to send—to duplicate 

that effort. There is always one more reason why something does 

not get done. And one of the things I would hope this task force 

34

would look at is in the future give FEMA the authority to just get 

one person to this and get it done. It is going to require some 

tweaking of State laws and municipal codes. 

Now the second thing you are going to discover and you are real 

close to getting there yourself. The folks who got these contracts 

are not paid by the trailer. They are on cost-plus contracts. They 

are paid for every mistake. And they are paid a percentage on top 

of their mistakes. They will haul the trailer to the site, determine 

that it is not right, bring it back to the staging yard, they get paid. 

They will send a crew out tomorrow to do the same thing, haul it 

back to the site, they get paid. They get paid for all of their mistakes. No one else in America gets paid for making mistakes. 

So again, maybe the gentleman was not at liberty to say it. I will 

tell you we need to take a very serious look at these contracts. Because in the case of Mississippi our contractor was Bechtel. I called 

a member of the Bechtel family and tell them what shabby work 

they were doing in Mississippi and they do a lot of work for the 

Department of Defense. If they are doing work this bad in my 

backyard, what are they doing in Iraq? 

So, again, I did not want to monopolize this, but I would hope 

the chairman would make a few minutes to take you to a site 

where we parked a trailer in Mississippi tomorrow morning so I 

can walk you all through this. Because I am glad that you are addressing it. It has to be addressed because this is not the last natural catastrophe that is ever going to hit this Nation. We need to 

get these folks; we need to get my folks. And for the next time that 

it happens, we have got to do a heck of a lot better. 

Thank you, very much. 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you. 

Chairman NEY. Mr. St. Julien. And then Mr. Williams. 

STATEMENT OF MTUMISHI ST. JULIEN, EXECUTIVE 

DIRECTOR, FINANCE AUTHORITY OF NEW ORLEANS 

Mr. ST. JULIEN. Thank you very much. I am Mtumishi St. Julien 

of the Finance Authority of New Orleans. 

As co-chair of the housing committee of the Bring Back New Orleans Commission, we hosted a mortgage bankers summit and we 

used it as an opportunity to bring together the entire industry of 

large mortgage bankers, the GSE, all the major services, and so 

forth to come and discuss what we will really need to make sure 

that the funds are spent properly and how to get the financial industry back into this. 

I have a whole list of things and I ask that this committee allow 

me to put this in the record. 

Chairman NEY. Without objection. 

Mr. ST. JULIEN. Plus, they added the minutes of the mortgage 

banking summit so that you can have that. I will be willing to discuss this in more detail with your respective staffs. They have a 

whole list of what the financial industry calls esoteric issues which 

will help. For example, Congress increased the home improvement 

from $20,000 to $150,000. Wonderful, great, we need that. The 

problem is that home improvement in the Section 143 of the Internal Revenue Code is primarily a second mortgage product. Well, 

FHA does not have insurance for single family products. So again, 

35

what happens is the lender is a little discouraged from using that 

and we need that. 

That is just an example of the list of things that we can have, 

we can discuss. 

On the issue—and ranking member, I just wanted to make a 

comment; we are a governmental agency. We have a unit of 236 

units as a governmental agency. The Stafford Act allows us to get 

public assistance from FEMA. We set up the Willows as a 

501(c)(25), which under the Internal Revenue Code is an instrumentality of Government. But somebody made a decision that we 

needed to be treated just like 501(c)(3)s, which has a different 

standard in the Stafford Act. 

So when the issue comes up whether FEMA can come in, removing the reimbursable basis, they have the power to come in and 

help us deliver 236 units almost immediately if they would just 

come in and help us. We have essential employees that need housing. We have police; we have firemen; we have teachers; we have 

other people who need housing—that is an alternative. 

Another alternative to this discussion about FEMA is if the trailers, other than the cost of probably the labor time, the contract is 

$75,000 a trailer. We have thousands of units that had relatively 

minor damage that FEMA can come in and use that $75,000 to 

help fix that unit under the condition that the owner will give them 

a lease to get our people back in the city. Our people want to come 

back in the city. It is important that we get them back in the city 

because New Orleans has made and continues to make great contributions to this country. Not only with oil and gas, oil and gas 

does not come up from the ground by itself. It is the people who 

bring this to this country. The culture that people all over the 

world love and it is our people, it is really poor people that have 

developed a lot of this culture. 

I was blessed during the holidays to spend Christmas and 

Kwanza in Ghana in talking to people there. There were a few 

chiefs who said that they had tears in their eyes looking at CNN 

at what happened. They envy this concept of the American dream 

that they see in America, that people want houses, that we have 

a financial institution that can help deliver houses. But now they 

are starting to wonder whether this issue of this value that we 

broadcast all around the country of the American dream is really 

a value or is it merely propaganda. They are waiting and they are 

looking. 

Congress has a long history of taking leadership in housing. 

When this country was in trouble during the Great Depression, it 

was Congress who stood up. It was Congress who thought out of 

the box, came up with this idea of this insurance company that 

could help people buy homes. So they created FHA in 1934. It was 

Congress, when this country had liquidity problems throughout the 

banks, and they said okay, we will collateralize this. So they created Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae to solve that particular 

problem. Now Congress can continue that legacy and you have a 

bill before you from one of your Members, Congressman Baker, 

which we support that bill. 

Why we support HR 4100 is because our people followed this 

American dream. They were told as poor people that if you buy a 

36

house, if you pay your mortgage on time, you can do like the 19th 

century immigrants did and pass this on to generations. This is 

part of the American dream; this is what you have to do to be 

there. They have done that, but because of no fault of their own, 

primarily a man-made disaster, they lost everything. To make this 

American dream real again, not only to us, to let our people know 

that this is a real value in this country, but to tell the people all 

over the world that this is a real value and not just propaganda, 

we need to help make our people whole. We think that Congressman Baker is on the right track. HR 4100 is very, very important 

to be able to give our people some of the equity that they need so 

they can have those choices and rebuild. They want to come home. 

They will come home. They need to come home. 

Thank you so much. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you. 

[Applause.] 

Chairman NEY. We will move on to Mr. Williams. I just want to 

note again, we passed that piece of legislation out of our committee 

and so we need to get it to the floor of the House and then over 

to the other body. 

Mr. ST. JULIEN. Thank you so much. 

Chairman NEY. Mr. Williams. And we are going to have to move 

to the 5-minute rule. I will let you know when your time is expired 

and the members, we will have to try to hold to it because we have 

got another panel and I want to make sure we get that panel in. 

[The statement of Mtumishi St. Julien can be found on page 172 

in the appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF CHARLES H. WILLIAMS, DEPUTY ASSISTANT 

SECRETARY, MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING, DEPARTMENT OF 

HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Chairman and ranking member and members 

of the committee, I am Hank Williams with the Department of 

Housing and Urban Development. It is a privilege to talk with you 

today, especially as we are going to be able to address some of the 

concerns that Representative Jefferson brought up earlier. We 

think that is a very important part because the Department is very 

focused on the importance of housing as it impacts the recovery in 

this area. 

I ask that you accept the department’s written statement, which 

contains a lot more detail, as part of the record. 

Chairman NEY. Without objection. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. The Katrina, Rita, and Wilma disasters thoroughly tested all us as far as our abilities to handle disasters, and 

the President has directed Federal agencies to adapt to the extraordinary challenges presented by the most extensive natural disaster 

in this Nation’s history. Responding to the President’s direction, 

Secretary Jackson mobilized the resource of HUD and I would like 

to describe just a few of the many efforts undertaken to help people 

recover and rebuild from the devastation caused by these hurricanes. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Mr. Williams, we cannot hear you. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. HUD worked with FEMA in the early days of the 

disaster to get housing assistance to those who had been displaced 

37

and uprooted by these hurricanes. This partnership along with 

other partnerships with USDA, VA, HHS, and others demonstrated 

the dedication to providing the housing assistance. Some of the 

best examples of those joint efforts were the Katrina Disaster 

Housing Assistance Program. Everything in the Federal Government needs an acronym and that is called KDHAP. KDHAP and 

the Joint Housing Solution Center, which we call JHSC, were established to address housing issues specifically. 

It was also provided—HUD also provided hundreds of staff members to staff the disaster recovery centers throughout the Gulf 

Coast area and also to participate in other disaster relief efforts. 

The program offices at HUD were aided in the recovery process as 

well—have aided in the recovery process as well. 

Administered by the Office of Community Planning and Development, the Community Development Block Grants (CDBG) Program 

is a very, very powerful rebuilding tool. As you know, the President 

recommended funding for CDBG to assist local communities with 

their planning and the recovery and rehabilitation process. The 

Congress and the President approved $11.5 billion in additional 

CDBG funding as well as almost $400 million for public housing 

authorities to assist in the recovery and housing efforts. 

In addition, Community Planning and Development issued waivers of more than 40 requirements within the existing grant programs for the States of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama in an 

effort to increase the flexibility to use their current resources for 

the disaster relief. For an example, CPD issued a series of waivers 

in the home program that included self-certification of income, 

elimination of matching requirements, and greater flexibility to 

help these very low income families receive tenant-based rental assistance and to rehabilitate and buy their homes. 

Office of Housing took the lead and was the original and first one 

to implement a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures. And this was 

in all the disaster relief, disaster declared areas for both Hurricanes Rita and Katrina. Then on November 22, Secretary Jackson 

and Commissioner Montgomery extended that foreclosure moratorium for an additional 90 days to February 28 of 2006, for all those 

counties that were in the declared disaster areas. This extended 

foreclosure relief will provide mortgage companies additional time 

in which to confirm the homeowners’ intention and ability to repair 

their home and then to resume mortgage payments and to retain 

home ownership. 

In December, the department took an additional step which was 

to provide a retention opportunity for those homeowners with FHAinsured mortgages that worked or lived in the presidentially declared disaster areas. Under this initiative, HUD will advance to 

these homeowners up to 12 months of monthly payments so that 

they will be able to forego payments during this period of time 

when they are trying to re-establish their homes and to find employment. This was an unprecedented step, one that was taken for 

the first time and was a very creative process that the HUD went 

through to try to determine what our resources were to be able to 

do this. And this can help up to 20,000 families that are seriously 

impacted by the hurricanes. 

38

Chairman NEY. Time’s expired. If you would like to summarize—

time’s expired, if you would like to summarize. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Sure. In addition, there are several other programs that were very extensively thought through and evaluated 

to be able to provide the resources that would help in this particular disaster. And the HUD staff worked very diligently to be 

sure that these programs not only matched up with the need but 

were delivered expeditiously. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you. 

Chairman NEY. Mr. Wells, I think you already— 

Mr. WELLS. I want my 5 minutes. 

Chairman NEY. There you go; you have got your 5 minutes. I am 

not going to arm wrestle you. 

STATEMENT OF SCOTT WELLS, FEDERAL COORDINATING OFFICER FOR DR-1063-LA, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. WELLS. I want Ranking Member Waters here too. Is she 

here? Thank you, and thank you for coming. It is very important 

to come see this and connect emotionally. We see this every day. 

We are trying to do the best that we can. But it was a catastrophe; it was a big disaster. There is no infrastructure in St. Bernard Parish. There is virtually no infrastructure in New Orleans. 

It is tough. I wish we could have had a more thoughtful approach 

because it is not one problem—it is not the contract; it is not 

Entergy; it is not the city; it is not the parish; it is not FEMA. 

It is a big disaster with many problems. We are doing better 

than we have ever done in doing what we are doing in helping 

these communities recover in travel trailers and mobile homes. We 

are doing the best we can. We are stretching everything we can. 

We have gotten better. We will get better. 

All that being said, we know this is not enough. We are going 

on 5 months. We realize people are not getting on with their lives 

because they do not have a permanent type of housing. 

The difference between the discussion we had today, at least my 

part, in what the Federal Government, what FEMA does and what 

some of the expectations are, there is a divergence. Our focus, our 

commitment, is to get anybody that is eligible that had losses from 

Katrina or Rita to give them some viable options. The Stafford Act 

allows us to do that. 

We do that by basically two ways. Give people money so they can 

rent an apartment, a house, a condominium, or something, rental 

assistance up to 18 months and that can be extended or give them 

some direct housing in the way of mobile home or travel trailers. 

We are doing that. Most everybody has gotten money. 

The last thing that I want to say is, and this is very important, 

we have people who are not—who want to have their first option. 

They want to come back to New Orleans. They want to come back 

to St. Bernard. They want to come home. I want to go home too. 

I have got a home to go to. But I am not going back to my home 

until these folks get their home. But everybody is not going to get 

their first option right away. There is a cold hard fact in that peoVerDate 0ct 09 2002 16:04 Jun 20, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00044 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\DOCS\109.69 RODNEY
39

ple that lived in this area will not be able to come back for months 

or maybe years because there is not the housing stock to do that. 

That does not mean they do not have a viable option. They do. 

They will have rental assistance. We have mobile homes and travel 

trailers in other parts of the State. So we are not leaving people 

homeless. There is an option. There is a bed; it is equipped; there 

is electricity; there is water. It just may not be where they want 

it. It may not be their first option, but we are not turning anybody 

away. There are places for them to go. That is our commitment. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairman NEY. I appreciate your time. 

Questions? The gentlelady from California. 

[The statement of Scott Wells can be found on page 181 in the 

appendix.] 

Ms. LEE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I would like first of all to 

go back to a couple of issues that the mayor raised and just see 

if Mr. Williams or Mr. Wells or Mr. St. Julien could answer or clarify those issues. 

First of all, the mayor indicated that he still does not know 

where a lot of the residents of New Orleans are. And he cited, and 

he mentioned this to us in Washington, D.C., some issues around 

privacy. And as one who cares about and values our privacy laws, 

I mean, and who is very much against the domestic spying that is 

taking place now and the surveillance and wire tapping, I share 

and understand the reasons for privacy. However, I also know that 

oftentimes agencies play a lot of games with our privacy laws. 

And this morning, on the tour we asked about, first of all, how 

many residents were unaccounted for and we heard that there 

could be up to 3000. And secondly, hearing now from the mayor 

with regard to still not knowing where people are, I am wondering—but yet we heard that HUD may know where public housing residents are, 95 percent of them. I am wondering why the 

mayor does not have this information and what the privacy rules 

are as you see them that is prohibiting the mayor from receiving 

the information that he needs and that everyone needs so that families can be contacted, individuals, and assisted in their return 

home. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Let me respond from HUD. We do have a good 

understanding of where most, 95 percent, of the public housing 

residents are. And that represents about 9600 families within the 

metropolitan area. But we can also provide contact information and 

if there were materials that the mayor wanted to provide to those 

individuals, it is our understanding that we can provide that to 

them. So we can work with the mayor’s office to provide that information to them. 

Ms. LEE. But, Mr. Williams, I guess then I am wondering why 

that has not happened. What is going on in terms of—is it lack of 

communication? Is it—what is the deal? 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Let me refer to Dr. Moon here is with our local 

housing authority here. Oh, she is gone. Maybe Milan Osadeck can 

help us a little bit with that too. 

Mr. OSADECK. Madam Congresswoman, I am not aware of any 

request from the city to the Department requesting information on 

individual residents. At this point in time, we do have the last 

40

known address of those families that had registered for FEMA assistance. We are using those addresses to send post cards, to try 

to contact these families, to try to get them assistance through the 

KDHAP program. 

Ms. LEE. Well, you heard the mayor earlier saying that he could 

not get those lists. So I guess could this committee make a request 

that those lists be forwarded to the mayor, just out of courtesy, if 

nothing else? I mean he needs them. 

Chairman NEY. If the gentlelady will yield. Is there anything to 

prevent the mayor from acquiring the list from you? 

Mr. OSADECK. I am not an expert on privacy laws, Mr. Chairman, but I can certainly, when I go back to Washington, find that 

out. 

Ms. WATERS. Do not find it out. Tell them. 

Chairman NEY. You can give us the list is what you are saying. 

Ms. LEE. Can we get the list, this committee? 

Chairman NEY. Are we allowed to have the list? 

Mr. OSADECK. I do not know the answer to that. 

Chairman NEY. Okay. 

Ms. LEE. We are not allowed. 

Chairman NEY. We will find out. 

Ms. LEE. Mr. St. Julien. 

Mr. ST. JULIEN. Madam Lee, may I make a suggestion? I mean, 

this issue, there is some Privacy Act problems involving this. But 

it is very simple that FEMA ought to have responsibility to send 

a notice to everyone asking them for their permission to be able to 

provide that information to the officials so that they can get official 

information. If people had that option to get that official information about what is happening in their city, most of them will probably say yes. And at that point we will be able to do that. 

Ms. LEE. Let me ask FEMA, have you done that? And also, does 

the Governor have that information? Do we have that information? 

Does HUD have that information? 

Ms. WATERS. The Governor has the information. You gave it to 

the Governor. 

Mr. WELLS. I think we have already provided the information, 

one. That issue came up on voting and there was a bad disk and 

the disk was corrected. I think that information has already been 

provided. So I think that has already happened. 

Ms. LEE. But where did the information go. Who was the recipient? 

Mr. WELLS. I do not know, whoever asked for it. Some of the 

State agencies, yes. So they got the information. There is only four 

criteria that you have to meet. You meet the four criteria, then we 

provide the information. We are not trying to withhold it. 

Mr. MELANCON. It is the secretary of state; the secretary of state 

is in charge of that. 

Ms. LEE. The secretary of state has it? 

Mr. MELANCON. I think that he has gotten it now. 

Mr. WELLS. I think that is who has it; it is a state agency. 

Chairman NEY. Can we just suspend for a second? 

Ms. PRATT. The secretary of state—I am Councilwoman Renee 

Gill Pratt from New Orleans. The secretary of state and the attorney general was going to sue FEMA in order to get the list so that 

41

they can then notify our citizens about the upcoming election and 

then FEMA turned over the list to the secretary of state. And at 

that time, that is the only person who could use the list. However, 

elected officials asked could we also get that list, and they are supposed to go back and ask could they get that list, because our constituents call us every day asking us what is going on. But we have 

no way of notifying and telling the others what is exactly happening in their own city. So they have to give the authorization so 

that all can have it. 

Ms. LEE. So FEMA should notify the secretary of state to release 

that information to whomever is requesting it? 

Ms. PRATT. Yes. 

Mr. WELLS. No. The secretary of state requested it and we gave 

it to him. Somebody asked it to us; we gave it to who requested 

it. That is what we have done. 

Chairman NEY. So if we requested it, we can have it? 

Mr. WELLS. Yes. 

Chairman NEY. Okay, then we will request it. 

Mr. MELANCON. It took awhile to clear it. 

Ms. LEE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman NEY. Mr. Green. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, I must tell you that I marvel at how we can put 

a man on the moon, but we cannot put a trailer on a lot—21,000 

trailers in 30 days is not impossible for the richest country in the 

world. For some other countries, it could be impossible, but for this 

country, that is entirely doable. And I would hope that we would 

rethink our position on that and try to help this mayor and this 

city with those trailers in 30 days. 

Mr. Wells, I know that you have broad shoulders, and I appreciate you very much. But I just want to share this with you because you are a fellow human being. The comment about the nine 

women in the room was not well thought through; it really was not. 

I do not think you meant to offend anyone. But that comment was 

not well received and I think that if you get a chance, you might 

want to let people know that you would not say it that way if you 

had another chance to say it. 

Mr. WELLS. Let me just say, I apologize. That was not the intent 

to— 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you. I think you ought to salute him for his 

apology. I think you should. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. WELLS. It was certainly not to meant to offend anybody. 

Mr. GREEN. I understand. I do believe you. 

Now we do have some contradictions that we have to confront. 

We want to rent apartment complexes, but we do not want to pay 

rent. And what I am saying to you is you gave us a clear indication, you made it conspicuously clear that you wanted to rent 

apartments—you want to lease apartment complexes, you want to 

do that. But we do not want to pay the rent at hotels. I call it rent. 

When I go to a hotel room, if I do not pay, then I have to leave. 

But we do not want to pay. We have had Federal judges to intercede and say that evacuees could stay longer than deadlines that 

had been imposed by FEMA. 

42

So FEMA is at a point now where you need to move from deadlines to life lines. People need to be given the opportunity to stay 

in place until there is another place to stay. It really is not rocket 

science. People have nowhere to go. And we cannot just terminate 

lease arrangements and expect people who are living in strange 

areas, many without transportation, many with children, some single parents, to just find a place to live. We have to be a little bit 

more compassionate than that. 

I can speak of Houston, Texas, specifically. There was an arrangement made with FEMA to allow the City of Houston to lease 

property with landlords and pay the landlord and get reimbursement from FEMA. That was the arrangement. Now not you, but 

FEMA has tried to find all kinds of clever ways to avoid that agreement. We actually had a person that appeared before our committee in Congress who said that while they wanted to terminate 

those leases, they did not want people to stay there for 12 months 

because they were 12-month leases. And by the way, many of those 

landlords would not have leased but for a 12-month lease. He said 

that we are going to terminate those leases, but we are still honoring our agreement. The question was, how are you honoring your 

agreement if you are terminating the lease. He said, because we 

will pay any penalties that we have to pay. So that means we are 

honoring our agreement because we will pay the penalties. That is 

clever, but that is not helping people. You were not the person who 

said that, but I sat in the hearing when it was said. 

We sat in a hearing when Congresswoman Waters brought this 

same question up about this list. This is not the first time. And by 

the way, the person who was in Congress on that day, he left a few 

pounds lighter, too. I do not know whether he still has certain 

parts of his anatomy. But be that as it may, we keep repeating ourselves and making the same request. 

I really did not have a question for you. But I have a final comment and that is this, the City of New Orleans cannot resolve this 

by itself. This State cannot. The Federal Government cannot. But 

together, we can do this. This is not a big deal for the city, the 

State, and the Federal Government. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. 

Chairman NEY. Mr. Cleaver. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Really one question, I 

guess, to Mr. St. Julien and to Mr. Williams. We had a chance to 

go to the Desire, the Hope 6 project. And I am familiar with Hope 

6 and I spent part of my childhood in public housing. But Desire 

is one of the most beautiful projects I have ever seen. And I guess 

if we had 11.5 million more that came into the city, CDBG, what 

is the—do you have an idea what the annual CDBG allocation is? 

Mr. WILLIAMS. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. CLEAVER. The annual. The 11.5 was on top of what the city 

receives annually. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Eleven and one half billion is for the gulf coast 

and the allocation of that 11.5 billion would be based on the plans 

that the cities and the States present to HUD to utilize those 

CDBG funds. 

Mr. CLEAVER. That will be competitive funding? 

43

Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I do not think it is competitive. We have got 

a person who—I am sorry, did not get the microphone. We have a 

lady here who is with our CDBG department, our Community Development Department. Would it be okay if I asked her to answer 

that question. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Absolutely. 

Ms. FARIAS. My name is Anna Maria Farias; I am the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Grants. And, yes, the $11.5 billion that 

Congress passed and the President signed on December 30, Secretary Jackson made it very clear shortly after we got back in January that we were to work very closely with the Governors of all 

five affected States so that they could start working on the waivers 

and their plans so that this $11.5 billion can be used once funds 

are allocated to the State of Louisiana through the Governor for 

low- and moderate-low income people. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Okay. 

Ms. FARIAS. And also in addition you asked, New Orleans does 

get a certain amount, $70 million of CDBG, and it is up to the City 

of New Orleans to decide how they are going to use that money. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Yes, thank you. 

Okay, the way CDBG normally works is that only certain class 

cities would go through the Governor in terms of competitive bidding. The major cities in this country do not get that allocation 

from the Governor. And I guess perhaps I am asking this inarticulately, but is New Orleans going to have to go out and compete 

with other Gulf Coast areas for a portion of the 11.5? 

Ms. FARIAS. New Orleans will have to go through the Governor 

of Louisiana to get a portion of the money because that is the way 

the supplemental bill—the Governor of Louisiana the money portion goes to the Governor. The Governor has appointed a Louisiana 

Recovery Authority and then the city administration. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Yes, thank you. That was a mistake then. That 

was a big mistake. And I am familiar with CDBG, very familiar 

with it. It was intentionally designed to make sure that the larger 

areas ended up with an allocation based on disparity; you know the 

whole deal. And one of the reasons—is this going to be the Governor or is it going to be the Louisiana General Assembly? 

Ms. FARIAS. The monies are allocated to the Governor, but what 

the Governor has to do is they submit a plan to HUD, but they 

have to allow minimal participation to the citizens. And that means 

all the citizens of Louisiana, which of course includes the City of 

New Orleans. 

Mr. CLEAVER. CDBG requires a public hearing. 

Ms. FARIAS. You have to have a public hearing. 

Mr. CLEAVER. That is right; you have to have a public hearing. 

So we are going to have a statewide public hearing? 

Ms. FARIAS. The way the appropriation resolution was signed, 

that is the way it goes, sir. That is the way it was. The money goes 

to all five Governors of the five States. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Do you see the problem? I mean, I know you cannot answer that question. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. CLEAVER. Mr. Williams, we are going to have a statewide—

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44

nually. And so with $11.5 billion going to Baton Rouge, we still 

have to have the public hearing except it is going to be a statewide 

hearing? 

Mr. WILLIAMS. The individual plans that are submitted are reviewed by HUD. And so HUD has oversight on those CDBG grants 

that are provided. So I know Secretary Jackson has expressed a 

very strong desire to be sure that there is equity in the allocation 

of those funds. And so the department will do those things that are 

necessary to oversee the equity within the distribution of the funds. 

The statute itself does limit allocations of funds to a certain percentage maximum to any one particular State. I believe it is 54 

percent to any one particular State. So it does have some limitation 

within the statute itself. But also HUD has oversight and participation with the communities in being sure the funds are used appropriately and distributed appropriately. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Mr. St. Julien. 

Chairman NEY. Time has expired, but if you would like to quickly answer. 

Mr. ST. JULIEN. We need help; this is just an observation that 

you have, maybe not only because we have to do a statewide hearing for something that affects a large city like New Orleans, but 

we have a unique situation. Our people are spread out all over this 

country. 

Mr. CLEAVER. That is the point. 

Mr. ST. JULIEN. We spend a lot of money to get Iraqis who live 

in this country the right to vote for—in the last election in Iraq. 

And who were in Detroit and several other places and we need 

some mechanism and we need some funding to make sure we have 

public hearings in Houston, in Baton Rouge, in Memphis, in Atlanta so our people can participate and also participate in the vote. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Mr. Chairman, I know my time is expired. I am 

a little familiar with this, maybe more than a little familiar with 

it. And it may have been our problem; it may have been our error. 

I can tell you right now as a former mayor having done these hearings for 20 years, this is a mess of major proportions and I think 

Mr. Williams and the kind lady in the back, they cannot agree with 

that because they might lose their jobs. But I know they can tell 

you it is a mess. And talk to them back in the back. It is a mess. 

It is going to be a mess. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I am sorry I went over. 

Chairman NEY. Gentlelady from California, Ms. Watson. 

Ms. WATSON. Thank you. I am sitting here and very diligently 

trying to pinpoint what the problem is. The first problem is beyond 

anything that you can do. And that is when we moved the Emergency Management Agency under Homeland Security. It just gives 

more levels to go through. And I heard you say, Mr. Wells, that it 

was protocol. 

The Emergency Management Agency should be just that. It 

should be able to move on a dime. It is not happening. The kind 

of devastation we saw today leaves you with the thought, what 

emergency has been addressed out here. We still saw trees uprooted and they are on roofs of houses and the houses are ready 

to collapse. And we saw rubbish in the streets; it has not been 

moved. There is nothing emergency about it yet. 

45

I heard very clearly—and you just happen to be the one that is 

here, Mr. Wells, very little you can do about this. But if I can pin 

down the stumbling block, that is with the contractors that did not 

go out to a competitive bid process. I heard you say one of the 

agencies, a private utility agency is bankrupt? How in the world 

can you get a Government contract and be bankrupt. Something is 

wrong in that and I wish there was someone here representing that 

entity. Can someone explain that to me? 

Mr. WELLS. No, ma’am. They did not get a governmental contract. We gave—because they were bankrupt and did not do the 

things that needed to be done, FEMA hired a contractor to do 

Entergy’s work that they normally do. So FEMA went into a contract with another company. 

Ms. WATSON. Can you get rid of the contractors you have now? 

Apparently they are not delivering. And can you go out to a competitive bid in 30 days and find those that can deliver? I hear the 

mayor asking for 21,000 trailer units. That ought to be addressed. 

If the three companies that you mentioned cannot do the job, you 

need to contract with those who can. And you need to do it within 

the time span that you have given those who are staying in hotels 

and you are paying the rent—you need to do it so they can move 

out of those hotels, move on their property, rental property or 

leased property while you are trying to restore those neighborhoods. I think that can be done now. 

If you get the message from this committee hearing, I would go 

back immediately and say let us go to contract. Let us get people 

that can do the job and let us get the 21,000 units up. That would 

be a step one. 

Then you can look at other options too. If you can negotiate to 

get the apartments, that would be even better. If we can hook up 

all the areas that are without electricity and sewage disposal in the 

next few weeks, that would be a tremendous step towards returning the communities. Then if you could decide on who is going to 

take the rubbish away and where you are going to dump it, that 

would be another step that will really show progress. I was disappointed when I heard the President say there is progress and we 

went in the lower 9th ward and I do not see it. I am just here one 

day. But I do not see the progress. And I am wondering where the 

Emergency Management Agency is. 

But I think that you have indicated to us what the problems are. 

You have so much bureaucracy, you know, on top of what you do 

that you cannot get anything done in a timely fashion. 

So one of the problems would be for us to do oversight and remove the Emergency Management Agency from Homeland Security. We cannot secure the land if we cannot secure the people on 

the land. And we are spending billions of dollars 10 and 11 thousand miles away trying to secure people in Iraq and we cannot 

even help the Americans that are crying for just a place to stay 

outside of a hotel. So if we can solve the problem of the contractors 

and get them to deliver what we are paying them for—and you 

need to find out, I am sure there are people in this crowd here that 

can help hook up a trailer. We were sent up a letter from Jira 

Business Services, Incorporated to a Mr. Best. And they were going 

for a contract, but they were stalled and stymied, so that insideVerDate 0ct 09 2002 16:04 Jun 20, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00051 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\DOCS\109.69 RODNEY
46

boy trading does not work when you are really addressing this kind 

of emergency. We have got to put a new face on this. America has 

to become concerned about Americans as well. 

Chairman NEY. Time has expired. 

Ms. WATSON. So if you can take my suggestion that we find new 

contractors, get rid of those that cannot do the work. You know, 

just break that contract and go with those that can. 

Thank you, I yield back my time. 

Chairman NEY. The gentleman from Louisiana, Congressman 

Melancon. 

Mr. MELANCON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate it. 

You know, we are questioning probably the wrong people. The 

problem is coming from the top. I sit on the Katrina Committee 

and not very long ago we put on record a letter about trailers and 

about the program. And it went as far up and was seen by the Vice 

President that basically said that the trailer idea is worse than 

originally thought. Per the data provided, the last batch of trailers 

that we are now purchasing will be coming off the production line 

in approximately 3.5 years. And Mr. Chairman, if I can enter that 

into the record, if you do not mind. 

Chairman NEY. Without objection. 

Mr. MELANCON. FEMA was dismantled, in the sense that it is 

underfunded, understaffed, and incapable, not because Mr. Wells 

does not try to do his job. There was requested of the leadership 

that there be an independent Katrina Commission, just like the 9-

11 Commission, to find out what really are the problems and to address them. It would not take care of the needs of Chalmette and 

Belle Chasse and Venice and New Orleans. But at least it might 

prevent us in the future from having a disaster that is worse than 

the disaster that we have already suffered. 

I would hope—and Chairman Ney, again, I thank you for your 

interest and your concern. We have got committees scattered all 

over the House and the Senate and one hand does not know what 

the other hand is doing because the information is not all readily 

available. And the only thing that I would like to ask is that the 

leader of the House and the leader of the Senate join with the minority leaders and ask for an independent commission and that the 

President, as I requested yesterday, use whatever executive powers 

and authorities he has to waive those rules and regulations that 

hamper people like Mr. Wells and the people from HUD from getting the job done expeditiously. 

It is going to be a long toil; I think we all know that. And there 

is nothing that we can say here today that is going to make it easier on any of us. But I know the people of Louisiana and I have all 

the faith in the world of their resilience. We can get this State and 

this Gulf Coast back up to what it used to be. It is going to take 

time and, again, we are not asking for a handout, only a hand up. 

So Mr. Chairman, thank you for everything that you have done 

to bring us to New Orleans and to Biloxi to try to open this door 

so that these people can see in and understand what the real problems are. 

And I yield back my time. 

Chairman NEY. I thank the gentleman. Mr. Taylor. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

47

A couple of things, Mr. Williams. My question to you is based on 

your written testimony on pages five and six. You are talking about 

a program to advance mortgage payments to people for up to 12 

months, you know, while they may have been out of work in order 

to try to rebuild their houses and stay in their houses. My question 

is, is that solely for FHA guaranteed loans? 

Mr. WILLIAMS. We only have the ability to do it on those that are 

FHA insured. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Do you have any idea out of all the mortgages out 

there, what percentage of them would be FHA? 

Mr. WILLIAMS. The Gulf Coast area, it is about 20 percent. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Okay. Mr. Wells, a couple of observations based on 

what I have seen in Mississippi, you all are just getting started 

here. But please do not repeat the same mistakes. 

We have about 30,000 trailers out in Mississippi. We have over 

20,000 quality complaints. I have been to your staging area in 

Purvis where we actually as a Nation take control of these trailers, 

the manufacturer delivers them as far as Purvis, Mississippi. Once 

they come in that yard, they become Government property. At the 

Purvis yard, a FEMA rep will walk in and turn on the 12 volt 

lights. He will turn on the gas and hook it up to a pressure gauge. 

But he does not check the plumbing; he does not check the microwave, for example put a cup in the to see if the microwave is working and warms it up. He does not listen to see if the refrigerator 

is working. He does not turn on the air conditioner to see if it is 

working. So what he is not checking on this approximately $19,000 

purchase by our Nation is pretty alarming because once it crosses 

that yard, if the refrigerator goes out, the air conditioner goes out, 

et cetera, et cetera, it becomes the Government’s responsibility to 

pay for it. We have to send—instead of doing it all in one place 

where you can have your crews in one place, we have got to send 

crews all over south Mississippi to fix it. So the person getting the 

trailer is disappointed and angry. A great expense to the Nation to 

fix these things. We need to do a better job upon delivery of making sure we are getting a quality product. 

Second thing, snuck on the Bechtel lot, I was told that I could 

go any time I wanted. I went, did not ask permission, and found 

50 trailers where they had taken the thermostat out of this one to 

fix that one. They had taken the microwave out of this one to fix 

another one, taken the air conditioner out of this one, leaving a 

hole in the roof so every time it rained, water came in and ruined 

the trailer, pulled the window out of this one to fix that one. And 

again, do the quick math, 50 trailers, approximately $20,000 

apiece, that is a million dollars worth of junk instead of 50 homes 

for people. And I have not had an adequate answer as to who is 

going to pay for that. But the citizens should not pay for that mistake that is being made on Bechtel’s leased property. 

[Applause.] 

Mr. TAYLOR. Okay? And again, I say all these things because this 

is not the last natural disaster. We are getting close to being there 

in Mississippi, but we are all United States Congress people; we 

are all responsible to the citizens. We do not want to see that 

money wasted; we do not want to see those resources wasted. And 

48

we want to make sure if we are going to help people, let us do it 

in a timely manner and let us do it quickly. 

Third thing, and this in the form of a question. I am not going 

to name names. But there were 50 that had be cannibalized, so 

that is 50 that were ruined in order to fix a few. But there were 

about 250 that had been returned and if you walk up on the front 

they take and mark what was wrong with them. And about 90 percent of them by my count were one manufacturer, without naming 

names. My question is—and I think that we are buying four of five 

different manufacturers—is anyone at FEMA telling anyone up the 

line quit buying this junk or get those guys to straighten up their 

act? Because that is 250 trailers that people could be occupying tonight that, because of quality defects, are sitting in the yard over 

on Menge Avenue. Unfortunately the committee does not have time 

to see Menge Avenue, Pass Christian, Mississippi. 

So, again, since you are just at the initial stages, what steps are 

you all going to take here so that that mistake is not repeated? 

And what steps are being taken throughout the FEMA organization to keep these mistakes from being made again? Because we do 

not want to keep making the mistakes every single time we have 

a natural disaster in this country. You all need to do better. The 

Nation needs to do better and if this committee needs to pass legislation, tell us. We have got to do better than you all did in Mississippi. 

I am grateful for the 30,000 trailers that have been delivered; it 

could have been done a lot quicker. But my point is if you pay anyone by the hour, it is just natural that they are going to work slower. If you pay them a percentage above their mistakes and for the 

mistakes, they are going to continue to make mistakes and you are 

going to keep paying. That contractor needs to be paid by the job. 

A successful delivery of a working trailer, because it is amazing 

how fast people can work when you pay them piece work. And we 

know that from the debris removal, because yes, it was too expensive, but they were paid by the cubic yard, so they got out there 

and hustled and picked up all the debris that they could because 

every time they showed up with a yard of debris they got paid for 

it. 

Chairman NEY. Time has expired. 

Mr. TAYLOR. The same attitude we ought to be taking with the 

trailers. 

Chairman NEY. I just—I have not asked questions because I 

wanted to yield to other members. I will be very quick because I 

know we have got a very patient second panel. How many trailers 

have you put in Louisiana total, how many trailers? 

Mr. WELLS. Around 26-27,000 travel trailers and mobile homes. 

Chairman NEY. 26,000, okay, have been placed or on the ground 

in Louisiana? 

Mr. WELLS. That is families moved in. 

Chairman NEY. Families moved in, okay. How many are here 

then in New Orleans of the 26? If you can follow up. 

Mr. WELLS. I can give you a general idea. 

Chairman NEY. A general idea and then later on if we can get 

the information by parish? 

49

Mr. WELLS. We have it by parish. It is probably around 1800 for 

Orleans. I think for Plaquemines it is probably around 1400 and 

probably around 900-1000 for St. Bernard, the three hardest hit 

parishes. 

Chairman NEY. One thing I might suggest, committee members, 

we do not have to do it formal because it would take forever and 

a day, but maybe GAO, we could call informally in a sense, not a 

9-year study, but could do a quick 2 or 3 days to find out, you 

know, what is the short circuit of how many were ordered and how 

many—because I know again, the Department at one time wanted 

a lot of them, and how you get them on the ground. In other words, 

study—not a study—a GAO opinion how to make this work, how 

to make 21,000 work in a month. How to— maybe—I am just 

throwing that out there. 

Mr. WELLS. Okay, chairman, I have got— 

Chairman NEY. Somebody has got to make it work somehow. 

Mr. WELLS. Okay, Plaquemines, this is occupied 1113; St. Bernard occupied, 1315 and in Orleans, 2196. 

Chairman NEY. Okay. And what is the projected need in New 

Orleans, how many more? 

Mr. WELLS. We met with the Governor—there are different ways 

of looking at this. He had 8000 sites; we are talking about like 

group sites already identified that they are somewhere from breaking ground to somewhere in the process of establishing group sites 

for 8000 units. In addition to that, there are about 7000 more 

group sites that the mayor needed to find space for. 

Chairman NEY. Okay, I have a quick question on the housing 

complex we went to today, Lafitte, I believe it was, Lafitte—for 

anyone that wants to answer it. When we were in there and again, 

you have to be here. We have seen it on TV; we worked with this 

issue—you have to be here to see it and I wish everybody involved 

with the votes would come down here. 

But we were in there today and the mold just went up the walls 

and things like that. It was built in the 1940s; I did not know that. 

I thought it was the 1960s, but it was built in the 1940s. Who decides—because so many families are affected, I think 890 some 

families are in Lafitte. Who makes the decision to say okay, this 

is how much it is going to cost to redo it, clean it up, redo it and 

this is how many months it will take or this is how much it cost 

to rip it all down, build new and this is how many months it will 

take? Who makes that decision? 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Chairman, we are glad you are here too because it is hard to kind of understand what that is without being 

here. Mr. Osadeck is the expert on the public housing and if you 

do not mind, I could ask him to answer your question. 

Chairman NEY. We saw Hope 6 today, and I supported the ranking member and other members, both sides. Ranking Member Barney Frank and Mr. Oxley were active in it. We all supported keeping Hope 6 alive. You know, we went reverse with the recommendation and we kept Hope 6 alive. The Hope 6 site I saw 

today, I do not know how on earth you could do anything but rip 

it down. I mean, but with this apartment or with these units there 

is a second floor. So I think it is an important question because the 

50

sooner that decision is made the quicker the people can get back 

into the public housing. 

Mr. OSADECK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The housing authority—you met Dr. Moon today. 

Chairman NEY. Yes. 

Mr. OSADECK. Who was on the bus, as well Dr. Jarvis, are in 

charge of doing that assessment. They have hired outside contractors as well as staff who are able to come back to New Orleans to 

assist in both the clean up and the assessment. As you can imagine, there is a lot that goes into deciding whether or not to try to 

rehab these units or to request the department to tear them down 

and either start over again with new units, do some sort of mixed 

finance, mixed income redevelopment, or request of the Department vouchers for replacing the units lost. 

Chairman NEY. Also on these housing units for people that need 

housing assistance, is it automatic that wherever the units were 

before, housing complexes, is that what will be back there again? 

Or is that something that is going to be a dispute? I am not talking 

necessarily just about HUD, but also locally or in this State or is 

that an automatic, that where it was it will be again? 

Mr. OSADECK. I can only speak for public housing. Where the 

housing authority actually owns the real estate, there are no 

incumbrance to putting units back on that site. The local codes 

would be the only thing that would need to be complied with at 

that point—densities, heights, those sorts of local code issues. And 

you may also know that the housing authority has actually begun 

to allow some people back into the public housing units. I think the 

guiding principle here is that units have to be safe, decent, sanitary. 

Chairman NEY. Not into Lafitte. 

Mr. OSADECK. Well, you saw today. Those things are clean on the 

outside. That site has been cleaned by the authority to the extent 

that it could and those units were secured so that nobody can 

break in and hurt themselves or steal or any other thing that can 

go on there. You have seen how those have been secured while the 

assessment goes on as to what should happen with them. 

Chairman NEY. Also on sites where you would build public housing, is anybody looking at the levels of toxic materials so that it 

is cleaned up for people, that it would be safe for kids and families? 

Mr. OSADECK. Indeed, chairman, that will be one of the things 

that the housing authority and the department will have to be very 

careful to ensure that before allowing people back into these units, 

they are indeed safe. 

Chairman NEY. And I am going to close with this because we 

have got the second panel. I also want to note that some members 

may have additional questions for this panel and they might want 

to submit it in writing. As usual House procedure, without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 30 days from this 

hearing for members to submit written questions to these witnesses and to place responses in the record. 

I just want to end with, first of all, thank all of you for being 

here. Again this is the first panel; we have a second one, but our 

committee members too for being here. I mean, it is important. Before we came here, there are a lot of people that have watched this, 

51

one of the worst situations in the history of the country and so it 

is very, very important that we react. And it is tough with something of this catastrophic nature and people going in every direction. But the big goal is to work together. 

I have to say one thing. I wrote a letter to the Army Corps. What 

I want to say is this. I mean, somebody has to make a decision on 

that levee and what it is going to rebuilt to and that has to be—

I do not know if it has been done. It is not your jurisdiction. But 

I am just saying, I say this everywhere, it has got to be done. Because as we are trying to help and there is precedents that have 

been set with this situation. We have had floods where I live and 

precedents set and that is okay, because there are some catastrophe things. But if that levee is not decided, here it is, it is a 

level five, I can tell you if this happens again and that levee is not 

sustained, you will get people arguing whether frankly people 

should be helped or not and that is an argument we do not need 

in this country. So I am hoping, I do not know, Congress, whatever 

we can do, or the Administration, somebody has got to make that 

decision and I think it is an important one. 

But I thank all of you for your time; thank you. 

And we will call the second panel. Second panel—Ms. Elise 

Boyer, Dr. Willie Gable, Mr. Darrius Gray, Ms. Martha Kegel, 

James Kelly, Muriel Lewis, Kevin Mercadel, I am sorry if I am not 

pronouncing these right, Randy Noel, James Perry, Larry Schedler, 

and Ms. Pauline Stewart. And we will take a quick 5 minute recess. 

[Recess.] 

Chairman NEY. The Committee will come to order. We have the 

second panel and I want to—the committee will come to order, if 

the members could please come to the table. 

[Pause.] 

Chairman NEY. Okay, the committee will come to order. And I 

want to thank you again, the second panel, for having the patience. 

We are going to start with Pauline Stewart, who is a resident, currently residing in a hotel. Ms. Stewart, thank you for coming today 

and I am sorry for what has happened to you and so many people 

down in the Gulf States here. 

STATEMENT OF PAULINE STEWART, RESIDENT (CURRENTLY 

RESIDING IN A HOTEL) 

Ms. Stewart. Thank you for having me. 

Chairman NEY. If somebody could push the microphone a little 

closer. 

Ms. STEWART. My address in New Orleans is 5700 Louis Prima 

Court; that would be Orleans Parish, the 9th Ward, New Orleans 

East. 

My problem with FEMA that I am here to address today, is their 

rental program. I have had FEMA refer in a 2-day period during 

the month of December five apartments; one in Metairie, one in 

Kenner, three in Baton Rouge. I am presently staying in a hotel 

in Baton Rouge. Each referral needed credit check, a criminal background check, and income in the amount of three, three and a half 

times, and four times the amount of the monthly rent. As Katrina 

victims, most Katrina victims not only lost their homes, they also 

52

lost their jobs. Most are on unemployment. They have no income 

by which to qualify for an apartment. 

In addition, FEMA will not tell you how long they will pay rent. 

So you cannot tell a landlord how long you will be able to sign a 

lease. I have addressed this question as far as I can get it, all the 

way up to Congress, my Representative, my Congressional Representative. I have no answer as to why the FEMA rental program 

in Louisiana is ineffective. 

We have also approached FEMA for trailers and I have been told 

that because my family only has two, two members, we can only 

qualify for a travel trailer. 

Chairman NEY. I am sorry. What two, who is the second person 

in the family? 

Ms. STEWART. My daughter evacuated me out of New Orleans. 

Okay, so she is with me temporarily. 

Chairman NEY. Okay, thank you. 

Ms. STEWART. Okay, and I could request a mobile home, but the 

odds were that I would not get one. And I cannot request where 

I would like this travel trailer. It could be as far as Shreveport. I 

am here today because I want to move back home. And I cannot 

move back home if I am living in Shreveport. I cannot rebuild my 

home if I am living anywhere in north Louisiana. I told FEMA that 

I need to be as close to New Orleans as possible and that may not 

happen. 

Now after FEMA could not provide me with answers or help or 

assistance with their rental program, I went to HUD. And HUD 

has advised me multiple times, because I have called them multiple times, because I have been given so many numbers—I have 

called them multiple times and each time I was advised that if I 

was not on a HUD program on the date of Katrina, I was not eligible to participate in any of their programs now. And asking further 

why that was so, I was told that HUD did not request additional 

disaster monies, because they were working off their existing budget. 

So that is where I am now, okay. I am waiting; I have to apply 

for an extension to stay in the hotel until maybe February 7th or 

February 13th. I would prefer an apartment as opposed to a travel 

trailer and I do not know what is going to happen. I have lost total 

control of my situation because I have to rely upon FEMA. 

At some point in time, yes, apartments are very scarce but within 2 days that young lady that was hired by FEMA did refer five 

apartments to me. Apartments are there; FEMA has hired people 

to find them. They may not be in the greatest of quantity, but they 

are existing. 

And that is all I have to say, so if you all have questions, I would 

be happy to answer any that I can. 

Chairman NEY. Ms. Boyer. Thank you. 

[The statement of Pauline Stewart can be found on page 169 in 

the appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF ELISE BOYER, RESIDENT (RESIDING IN 

HOTEL) 

Ms. BOYER. I am a victim of Katrina and Rita. I do live in New 

Orleans and I am still in New Orleans. I had to leave New Orleans 

53

the day of the storm to go to Florida. Went to Florida, my home 

is here, so I had to travel back from Florida here. I have been living in a hotel ever since then and that has been about 4 months. 

The hotel is fine; it is some place for you to lay your head; you are 

not in the street. But stipulations, you have to—first it was every 

7 days you have to go and apply for an extension. Now, it is every 

3 days you have to go and apply for an extension. Add to that, you 

have to have a code in order for you to get an extension. So that 

means if your code is not in, your hotel room is rented. That is 

where we are now. 

So my house I could not live in it. I had six feet of water; we 

cleaned out all the water and all the junk and everything that was 

in it. I had to have my house rewired. Did that. After that, there 

is no one in the neighborhood; there is no gas; nobody is in the 

neighborhood but me. I go and check the neighborhood out and 

check the house and see how everything is. They have been breaking in, because the doors are open. You cannot lock them because 

of the Corps of Engineers or whatever broke the locks on the doors 

and they left them like that; they left them open. So you have to 

buy locks; you have to watch your houses. 

The hotel is fine, but it is no place like home. And I really want 

to go home. I am home, but I am not in my house. I live in the 

Broadmoor area—devastation. Everybody’s house is washed away; 

it is a disaster. We have no neighbors; everybody’s gone. They come 

back, gut their house out, and they go back. So that is where we 

are, trying to get in my house, but Entergy has not, the gas is not 

ready. We still have water in the gas. So we do not know when 

that is going to happen. 

So I am hoping and praying that our extensions will be long 

enough for us to live where we can get our houses repaired and get 

back in them before they throw us out in the streets. 

I thank you all and that is all I have to say. If you have any 

questions, I will be willing to answer them. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you, and I want to thank you as I did Ms. 

Stewart. 

I am sorry for what has happened to you and so many people 

down here. Our thoughts are with you. Our hearts are with you. 

But we are here with you now to hopefully do as much as we can 

do to make sure you have some type of place to live here at home. 

I thought what we would do, because both witnesses have to 

travel back to Baton Rouge, so I know we normally go, you know, 

5 minutes each. Why do we not see if we have any questions of either of the witnesses and then we will go on to everybody else. 

One question I had, how do you get notification about when you 

would have to leave? I mean, I am sure you viewed in the newspapers that there was a certain deadline. Did you get any physical 

notification? 

Ms. STEWART. The official notification that I received came from 

FEMA to the hotel. I am sorry; it was given to me by the hotel, 

okay. And it was a notice that we had to be out; I think this was 

December 15th, and there was of course that extension that was 

granted at the last minute. And the attorneys that were involved 

were out of New York that went to the judge to get the extension. 

54

So I called FEMA to get an update on what is going on because 

now everything is different for everybody; the dates are all different. So I have to explain my situation and what category I fall 

in and that is the extension that would be applicable to me. So we 

have to request authorization numbers from FEMA before the end 

of this month, January, and they will give you maybe a week extension with that authorization. 

Chairman NEY. And that is the same experience, Ms. Boyer, that 

you have too? 

Ms. BOYER. We do not know how long the extension will be. 

Chairman NEY. One other final question that I have and then we 

will move on to members. Where you are living; what about cooking? Do you have a kitchenette? 

Ms. BOYER. No kitchen. 

Chairman NEY. So you get your meals by eating out. 

Ms. BOYER. Out of the truck. We have a Salvation Army truck, 

Red Cross truck. 

Chairman NEY. What about your evening, if I could just probe 

a little farther. What about your evening meals, do you have a hot 

evening meal? 

Ms. BOYER. If you have the money, you have to buy it. 

Chairman NEY. You have to buy it. 

Ms. BOYER. Other than that, yeah. Other than that, you eat 

sandwiches. 

Chairman NEY. Look, everybody knows this. If you eat out all 

the time—you cannot. 

Ms. BOYER. You cannot, you do not have the money. Everything 

is so high. 

Chairman NEY. Unless you have an awful lot of money. 

Ms. BOYER. Right. 

Chairman NEY. Obviously you do what everybody does; you buy 

groceries and you cook, you know, at home. So you would have to 

pay out of your pocket unless you can get—is the Salvation Army 

food free; is that okay? 

Ms. BOYER. They give you free lunch. 

Chairman NEY. I assumed they would. Otherwise though, but 

three meals a day, is it the same situation. 

Ms. BOYER. One meal. 

Chairman NEY. Okay, you do not have, okay, let me ask you this. 

Is there a mini refrigerator in there where you can have milk or 

juice or snacks? 

Ms. BOYER. We have an ice bucket and that is how you keep your 

juice or water, you know. You cannot put too much in an ice bucket, maybe one bottle. 

Chairman NEY. And that is very difficult for both of you. If you 

had children, I do not know what—or medicine that you have to 

refrigerate. Okay, that is something that I have not heard before. 

Our ranking member. 

Ms. WATERS. Just quickly, I want to understand the re-authorization process as you are describing it. You mentioned that you 

have to do something every 3 days. What is that? 

Ms. BOYER. You have to call FEMA. You have to go down and 

register. 

Ms. WATERS. Go down where? 

55

Ms. BOYER. In the hotel. 

Ms. WATERS. In the hotel and register at the desk? 

Ms. BOYER. And register at the desk for your extension. 

Ms. WATERS. And what happens when you do that? Do you have 

to answer questions or what? 

Ms. BOYER. No, you can just tell them that you came for the extension and sign up for the extension and you just stay there until 

another extension comes and you have to go back. It used to be 7 

days now it is 3 days. 

Ms. WATERS. And you said something about if you did not do 

something your room could be rented out? What is that something? 

Ms. BOYER. Yes, you have to get a code. 

Ms. WATERS. A code. 

Ms. BOYER. This is something new that FEMA has put on us. 

Ms. WATERS. Now who gives you the code, the hotel? 

Ms. BOYER. Yeah, FEMA issues the code and you have to give 

this code to the hotel. That is for you to get another extension. Now 

my extension will be until February 13th; you have to go down 3 

days before. 

Ms. WATERS. Before February 13th. And the last time that you 

went to get your extension, did they ask you any particular questions? 

Ms. BOYER. No. 

Ms. WATERS. They did not. And as you understand it, when you 

go back on February 13th, it should be basically the way it has 

been in the past where they just reissue a code to you. Did anybody 

talk to you about having a plan of any kind about how you are 

going to deal with your life if you did not have access to a hotel? 

Ms. BOYER. No. 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you. Thank you. You mentioned—did anybody tell you what the criteria was for getting a mobile home as 

opposed to a travel trailer? 

Ms. STEWART. It has to be more than two people. They gave me 

as an example a family of five, they would put into a mobile home. 

Ms. WATERS. Okay, and then what did you tell me about why 

you have not got a travel trailer? 

Ms. STEWART. I do not know the reason why I have not gotten 

one. 

Ms. WATERS. You told them that you wanted one and they know 

that you need one and nobody has said we have one in 10 days or 

15 days or— 

Ms. STEWART. No. 

Ms. WATERS. Thank you very much. I am sorry; Mr. Ney had to 

step out for a moment. 

Ms. Lee, I will just go to you. 

Ms. LEE. Let me first say, thank you very much for being here 

today and as I said earlier I just marvel at the spirit and the determination and the resilience of the people of New Orleans and just 

know that you will rebuild this great city. But I know that we have 

a responsibility to help you in those efforts. 

Just a couple of things I would like to ask, and you heard earlier 

FEMA and HUD, and I wanted to find out in terms of those individuals who have been displaced and who are living around the 

country, do any of you have an idea of how they are doing? I mean, 

56

we have people in all our districts we know and who we are helping; 90 percent of them, 95 percent of them want to come home. 

But there is so much confusion and so much in terms of lack of 

communication and lack of information with regard to when, 

where, and how, and what is taking place here. So I would just like 

to ask any of you if you know how—what system is established to 

make sure that relatives, family members, friends are in contact 

with those who are still here in the region, so they can make this 

transition back as quickly as possible? 

And secondly, I just wanted to ask you about some of the trauma 

again that has been associated with this disaster and just how you 

see people faring in terms of their mental health needs and what 

it is you think needs to be done within the context of helping them 

come home with their housing, and so anyone could respond to 

that. Mr. Kelly. 

Mr. KELLY. I have spent a number of hours this week with trauma counselors who worked in the tsunami, who have worked in 9-

11, et cetera. What we are now talking about is the number of suicides. The mayor made some reference to it, the mental health of 

our people. If you go through trauma, if any of you go through 

grief, what do you do? You go home and you curl up in bed or you 

curl up with family. Our folks do not have any place to go to deal 

with their trauma. We are going to have post-traumatic stress syndrome like you have never seen before in any nation. 

For the majority of our people, their home is what they have 

been striving for. Their home is gone; we are going to have posttraumatic stress syndrome that affects rich and poor. But I will tell 

you who is going to deal better with it, the poor because they are 

stronger and because they have been through lots more grief. But 

the number of suicides, the number of elderly who have passed on 

way before they should have—just open our obituary pages, elderly 

after elderly after elderly; we are losing our elderly. We are also 

seeing our elderly age faster than they have ever aged before. 

We are going to see post-traumatic syndrome with children. I 

know I have sat and played with children in shelters in Baton 

Rouge who have spent 2 to 3 months of their lives, a 1-year-old 

who spent 25 percent of his life in shelter. Do you not think that 

is not going to affect these children. 

There is a difference between grief and trauma is what I have 

come to learn. Trauma lasts a long time. 

Chairman NEY. Any questions for the two witnesses. 

Ms. WATSON. Yes. 

Chairman NEY. I am sorry; Mr. Green is next. 

Mr. GREEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman; I will be brief. I really 

appreciate having you up here before us today because there are 

many people who actually think that you have the good life. You 

are living in a hotel, maid service, room service; they do not understand what your life is really like. So you really have given me the 

ammunition that I need to speak on your behalf. 

But for clarity, I assume that you do not have maid service in 

the room. Tell me if you would, Ms. Boyer, and I will just let this 

be my only question. How are you managing with getting your 

things cleaned and that sort of thing? 

57

Ms. BOYER. Well, we have to go to the washeteria and that is 

very expensive, a dollar and a half for about 45 minutes. To dry 

your clothes, that is 75 cents. What do you get? About 15 minutes. 

It is very expensive living in a hotel. 

Mr. GREEN. God bless you. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Chairman NEY. Mr. Cleaver. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I have no questions. I 

appreciate very much you coming and I yield back the balance of 

my time. 

Chairman NEY. Ms. Watson. 

Ms. WATSON. Just for clarification as well. Ms. Stewart and Ms. 

Boyer, every 3 days, is this the same with you, every 3 days you 

have to register? Is there anyone who intercedes for you and lays 

out the procedures or do you have to initiate a call to FEMA? 

Ms. STEWART. The authorization code comes from FEMA. Without that authorization code from FEMA, you are not going to get 

your hotel. 

Ms. WATSON. Do you get through on the line your first attempt? 

Ms. STEWART. It is no problem reaching them. You know, that 

situation is over; they have enough people now and people have 

settled basically. The urgency is not there as it was before. 

Ms. WATSON. Now you mentioned that you wanted to get a trailer and that you were not eligible for a certain kind of trailer? 

Ms. STEWART. The mobile home. 

Ms. WATSON. The mobile home. Only what kind of trailer? 

Ms. STEWART. A travel trailer. 

Ms. WATSON. A travel trailer. And what is in a travel trailer? 

Ms. STEWART. It basically has the same thing as a mobile home 

except it is quite small. 

Ms. WATSON. Quite small. 

Ms. STEWART. It is a recreational type thing you go on vacation 

with. You see people driving along the highway; they are very 

small. I mean, it would be basically the equivalent of being in a 

hotel room for another 4 to 6 months or a year. 

Ms. WATSON. I see. Ms. Boyer, you asked for a trailer on your 

property? 

Ms. BOYER. Yes, I did. 

Ms. WATSON. And what is the problem you are facing? 

Ms. BOYER. They told me my driveway was too small, four 

inches, my driveway. The trailer would be on my neighbor’s property four inches. I cannot recall how many feet my driveway have, 

but my driveway is the length of my house. I have a driveway on 

both sides and I also have a carport in the back. No reason why 

my carport, my driveway will not hold a trailer because I see trailers hanging off the sidewalks. I see trailers on the sidewalk in 

front of houses. Mine would be in the driveway. The house next to 

me is vacant. It is vacant because those people have not come back, 

not even to take a refrigerator out. I said to her, would you mind 

if it is over there four inches? She said, you know I do not mind, 

put your trailer up there. I have not heard anything. I was in Florida when I applied for the trailer. I did not talk to anybody; they 

talked to my daughter on the phone and told her my driveway was 

too small; I would be four inches on my neighbor’s property. 

58

Ms. WATSON. Thank you. 

Mr. Kelly, you mentioned working with the children in the shelter. How many—do you know how many children are still disconnected from their families and in shelters? 

Mr. KELLY. Most of the shelters, almost all the shelters are 

closed. But it is just a different type of shelter. We put families 

without jobs, without cars, without childcare in trailer parks—it is 

just a different method of a shelter—or we put them in hotels without any resources. It is just a different type of shelter, in my mind. 

Ms. WATSON. Let me direct to the chairman and the ranking 

member, is this session being recorded? 

Chairman NEY. We have a transcriber. 

Ms. WATSON. Okay, I was wondering if we could take some of 

these points and put them in a report directly to FEMA or any 

other authority. 

Chairman NEY. We have the transcriber. 

Ms. WATSON. All of the points that they are making. You know, 

the property line, is that really relevant in an emergency. These 

are the kinds of ridiculous things that make this agency not one 

that addresses in an urgent way. And so I would like to—ranking 

member, I would like to have these pointed up in any report that 

comes out of this meeting, these ridiculous regulations that are 

making it difficult for the evacuees to at least come back to their 

property. 

Chairman NEY. Without objection. When it is transcribed, we 

will take the information and as a committee, we will send it to 

FEMA. 

Ms. WATSON. Thank you. I yield back. 

Chairman NEY. Any other questions of the two witnesses? And 

we will move on. I have just got to say to both of you again it is 

a terrible thing that has happened and I do not know how you are 

doing it. You have also shed some light frankly that nobody, and 

you might think that everybody talks to everybody, but you shed 

some light that I have not thought of. I knew it; it is not a condition that people want to be in. But all I ever heard that people are 

getting traumatized because at first they were going to be out in 

December and they are going to be out, and that is one of the reasons that we are here. But nobody has pointed out some of the 

other things. I mean, I can go on with a ton of questions. Vacuum 

cleaners, is a vacuum cleaner provided for you or do you have to 

go out and get your own cleaning supplies. I mean, I can go on and 

on and on about money that you obviously do not have. And I 

just—is there any type of payment that FEMA gives or the Government, the United States Government is giving? 

Ms. BOYER. At the beginning they did. 

Chairman NEY. They did. Okay, and when did that stop? 

Ms. BOYER. Right after they gave it to us. The same, when they 

gave me that money. 

Chairman NEY. One time payment. 

Ms. BOYER. They gave me $2000 the first time. 

Chairman NEY. Okay, that $2000. Well I want to again thank 

both of you and we will just start down here. Mr. Gray, we will go 

right down the line. 

59

STATEMENT OF DARRIUS GRAY, PRESIDENT, GREATER NEW 

ORLEANS HOTEL & LODGING ASSOCIATION 

Mr. GRAY. Thank you. Would you be so kind and slide the mic 

down; Thank you so much, appreciate it. 

Good evening. Speaking on behalf of the American Hotel & Lodging Association, I appreciate the opportunity to testify before the 

Subcommittee on Housing and Community Opportunity for the 

Committee on House Financial Services. The American Hotel & 

Lodging Association is a 96-year-old dual membership association 

of State and city partner lodging associations throughout the 

United States with some 10,000 members nationwide representing 

more than 1.3 million guest rooms. 

American Hotel & Lodging Association and the lodging industry 

understands the enormity of the unprecedented devastation caused 

by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. Many of our own employees were 

displaced; many of our businesses were partially damaged; some 

completely destroyed. And our industry faces a long road back to 

normalcy in the region which will take years to recover from. 

American Hotel & Lodging Association well understands the extraordinary demands placed on FEMA due to these hurricanes and 

applauds its many successes. However, improvements must be implemented if our Nation is to better respond to future events. 

Having said that, I want to bring to your attention the involvement of the lodging industry in the months after the tragedy of 

Hurricane Katrina and the past and present concerns we have 

compiled on behalf of the industry. In the chaotic week following 

the hurricane, American Hotel & Lodging Association was asked by 

the Department of Homeland Security to secure 250,000 guest 

rooms in case they were needed for a proposed housing plan in 

which the room blocks would be leased by the Federal Emergency 

Management Agency for a period of no less than 6 months but 

could extend as long as 18 months. 

American Hotel & Lodging Association disseminated the message 

to our members immediately and within periods of 6 weeks we had 

collected well over 190,000 guest rooms. The tremendous response 

from hoteliers across the country is a testament to the passion and 

generosity that our industry showed toward this event. Over 4500 

properties had applied to participate, willing to lease large blocks 

of rooms, in some cases the entire hotels to FEMA to house the 

hurricane evacuees. 

Available rooms were forwarded via e-mail in spreadsheets by 

the American Hotel & Lodging Association to FEMA on a daily 

basis beginning September 7, 2005, until the process was finally 

discontinued on October 17, 2005, at the request of FEMA, who informed the American Hotel & Lodging Association that they were 

no longer needed or they were no longer in need of the information. 

While FEMA made clear that their policy was fluid and could not 

guarantee that any of the rooms we had collected would be used 

for the housing program, very little other information was provided 

to us. The Department of Homeland Security confirmed each day 

that they had received our list of available rooms, but could not 

confirm what was happening to the list each day and whether or 

not they were being reviewed by the staff of FEMA. 

60

As time went by and evacuees were placed into hotels from shelters and other forms of temporary housing, no word came from 

FEMA regarding when the housing program would end, who would 

be dispatched to support the hotel properties, or what would happen if evacuees had nowhere else to go when the program terminated. This is a fact that even exists today. With all the recent 

changes that have been recently enacted, this is still a fact that we 

quite frankly do not know. 

You have heard from the panel here that they have been given 

this authorization code for February 7th; some, February 13th. But 

what about those applying for that March 1st deadline that was recently passed? My understanding in reading the documentation on 

that is that if your situation is undetermined at that time, then 

you can stay as long as March 1st, but still it is kind of vague and 

very ambiguous. 

Today many evacuees remain in hotels with little incentive to 

leave or nowhere to go, placing our members in extremely precarious public relations positions. It is disconcerting that most the information that we have passed on to our members throughout the 

course of the housing program is taken from newspapers and not 

received from FEMA itself. Given that the industry has been so 

eager to help in this tragic situation, we feel that more should be 

done by FEMA to foster communications, alleviate fears, and facilitate the housing program that has provided shelter and meals for 

so many people during this difficult time. Although the scale of this 

natural disaster in the Gulf was unprecedented, better preparation 

and communication could have greatly facilitated the process of 

finding housing for displaced residents. 

The American Hotel & Lodging Association and its members remain ready and willing to aid in this effort. We have willingly responded to this tragedy and standby ready to help prepare for future responses. It is our hope that through this process of discussion, logistical mistakes can be avoided in the future and we will 

be better able to work with this Government agency for the common good of the people affected by disasters such as this. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Mercadel. 

[The statement of Darrius Gray can be found on page 119 in the 

appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF KEVIN MERCADEL, NEIGHBORHOOD RECOVERY SPECIALIST, PRESERVATION RESOURCE CENTER OF 

NEW ORLEANS 

Mr. MERCADEL. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I 

thank you for the opportunity to testify today. 

As we attempt to shift attention from clean up to reconstruction 

in New Orleans and the Gulf region; PRC believes that we must 

answer the question how and in what form the rebuilding happens 

and how its historic fabric will be protected for generations to 

come. If we get this response wrong, Katrina could turn out to be 

not only a great natural disaster, but we believe a great cultural 

disaster. It is one Louisiana may not — 

Chairman NEY. Can you push the mic a little bit closer, sir. 

Thank you. 

Mr. MERCADEL. I am sorry. 

61

Chairman NEY. That is good. Thank you. 

Mr. MERCADEL. My organization, the Preservation Resource Center, established in 1974, has had an important impact on the revitalization of historic districts in New Orleans through its 32-year 

history. Our membership is over 8000. We have had a major impact on revitalization efforts in Lafayette Square, the Warehouse 

District, Algiers Point, Algiers Riverview, Bywater, Holy Cross, Esplanade Ridge, Lower Garden District, Irish Channel, Faubourg 

Delachaise, Edgewood Park, Pontchartrain Park, and many other 

neighborhoods in the city. These are the homes of working people, 

low, moderate-income families, majority African American. 

In addition, we have had a long standing relationship with the 

National Trust for Historic Preservation. Since Katrina, PRC has 

been working hand in glove with the Trust. The Trust has established a field office here in New Orleans, staffed it, and the office 

operates out of the Preservation Resource Center offices. So my remarks today are consistent with and supportive of the Trust efforts 

to make the Gulf region whole again. 

For more than 50 years, the Trust has been helping protect the 

Nation’s historic resources as a non-profit membership organization 

of over 250,000 members. It is a leader in the preservation movement that is trying to save the best of our past for the future. 

Now throughout the history of the PRC, now enhanced by the experience of the Trust in the Mississippi River floods of 1993, the 

Northridge earthquake of 1994, and a number of other natural disasters, we have learned that almost always the first impulse of 

local officials is to tear down almost everything, every damaged 

building in the name of public safety. We have also learned that 

this first impulse is almost always wrong. Obviously there will be 

historic buildings that will necessarily be lost, but we should not 

lose more than we have to. The Federal and State government’s 

role is pivotal in alleviating this urge to demolish and time is running out in New Orleans. For example, officials in the city are pursuing demolition requests and preliminary reports indicate that 

they intend to demolish some 50,000 buildings. Already there has 

been a hasty razing of the Naval Brigade Hall, a significant landmark in the history of New Orleans jazz. It was torn down September 26th without permits, without permission from the city or 

the owners of the building. 

In New Orleans alone, there are over 30 districts listed in the 

National Register of Historic Places or as locally designated historic districts. This represents more than one half of the core of the 

city. It must be emphasized that when we speak of historic neighborhoods in New Orleans, we are talking in the main about modest 

shotgun singles, doubles, Creole cottages, bungalows, arts and 

crafts houses and not simply our more famous neighborhoods like 

the French Quarter and the Garden District. Recovery efforts must 

acknowledge the special character of the city. Failure to do so 

would only compound the devastation that has already occurred. 

Unquestionably, there is a complex set of issues existing, but we 

believe there is a network of existing Federal, State, and local laws 

that protect historic structures and cannot be ignored in the rebuilding of the disaster area. 

62

On behalf of the PRC and the Trust, I have personally been involved almost daily since the middle of September doing tours, 

windshield surveys, and house-by-house inspections in just about 

every neighborhood in this city. We have worked with and continue 

to work and coordinate our efforts with FEMA, the State, the Historic Preservation Office, and the local HDLC, the Historic District 

Landmarks Commission. 

Since the beginning of October, PRC and the Trust has had 10 

volunteer teams of architects, preservationists, engineers, builders 

from around the country who have come in and worked with us to 

distribute information about city permitting processes, the notices 

of workshops that we conduct, as well as circulate materials. We 

have a list currently of over 1000 volunteers from around the country of professionals willing to come in and who will continue to 

maintain these teams as we go forward. We have circulated about 

3000 buckets of cleaning supplies in the neighborhoods—bleach, 

sponges, so on and so forth. We bought 13 generators and over 400 

tarps that we are distributing, primarily in the historic districts. 

The generators have been given to neighborhood associations which 

in turn loan them to homeowners that are working in their home 

without power. The tarps are important because the Corps, while 

they have this major roof project, does not talk hard roof—slate, 

steel, asbestos tiles, which are primarily the types of roofs that we 

have in the historic districts. We conduct weekly workshops; attendance has been 40 to 75 people. We have invited city officials, 

safety and permits experts about raising houses and I mean r-ai-s-e as opposed to r-a-z-e. We established— 

Chairman NEY. Sir, your time has expired, but if you would like 

to summarize. 

Mr. MERCADEL. Two projects that we feel are most important 

moving forward. As I indicated, there is a tremendous effort to demolish buildings. Simply because a building has been flooded does 

not mean it needs to be destroyed. This week, we began surveys 

of buildings. There are 200 buildings on the priority list to be demolished in historic districts. We have been inspecting them. We 

are going to share this information with HDLC, FEMA, as well as 

the property owners. And we want to ask that you in Congress ensure that the Section 106 regulations and existing—we are not asking for new legislation, just existing regulations—with respect to 

historic structures are on it. 

Our second initiative is a combination of a project called Operation Come Back, which has existed since 1988, and the Trust program called Home Again, where we have already identified buildings that we are renovating. We are organizing volunteers to gut 

them. We work on a neighbor block by block basis. We have a two 

block area in the Holy Cross neighborhood where we are re-renovating a property that we had just completed renovating before 

the hurricane. We acquired two other properties, blighted properties, on that block that we already have donations of $40,000 

worth of materials. The Trust has identified a property down the 

street and the concept—and this is in my written remarks—is a 

focus demonstration project that shows we can save buildings. 

If I might, I would like to add to my remarks and just show you 

visually, this is a project that we did in the uptown district. This 

63

is a project that was done 6 years ago. The before pictures are 

houses that are in significantly worst conditions than most of the 

houses in the city today. The bottom shows what we can do with 

them. It is a project that is small scale that can be duplicated over 

and over. We share this information with most of the organizations 

in the city. And we want to again thank you. I will be available 

for questions. 

Chairman NEY. Ms. Lewis. 

[The statement of Kevin Mercadel can be found on page 131 in 

the appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF MURIEL LEWIS, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF 

KATRINA EVACUEES 

Ms. LEWIS. Good afternoon. I am a member of the National Association for Katrina Evacuees, which represents over 5000 relocated 

residents. We have chapters in over 35 States. 

Some of us are in hotels, apartments, housing trailers, living 

with relatives. Most of us want to relocate back to New Orleans; 

we want to come home. Yes, we have lost memories, personal 

achievements awards, our children’s kindergarten pictures, K 

through 12, furniture, jobs, even grandparents’ obituaries. Yes, 

there is a healing process that we must go through. 

But part of our healing is to be able to come home. However, we 

have many concerns—housing, jobs, schools, health care, and 

neighborhood development. Yes, we want to come home. The Baker 

Bill is stating we will be receiving six percent equity from our 

homes. However, we are not in agreement with it. 

Another bill that we have looked at is the CBC, which states, it 

requires FEMA to reimburse entities that perform services that 

should have been performed by FEMA following Hurricane Katrina 

after the entity requests reimbursement and allows a retroactive 

purchase of flood insurance by Hurricane Katrina victims who did 

not live in a designated flood area. We know our Congressman 

Baker voted against it and it was voted down by one vote. 

Please reconsider, we want to come home. We do not want charity; we want justice. We do not want to sell our property; we want 

to live in our houses. We were told we were in a no-flood zone; that 

was the reason why we did not purchase or we were not offered, 

even offered flood insurance. Now, our mortgage companies are 

saying we must have flood insurance. Please, help us to keep our 

homes. We do not want to sell. Title 11 will bring hope and relieve 

pressure off of us. Our suicide rate is rising every day, at least five 

per week. Please relieve pressure. 

One other thing I would like to add to that is that many of our 

residents are concerned about food stamps. We had emergency food 

stamps that were issued in the beginning of the pre-Katrina—well, 

I should say it was during the Katrina catastrophe. However, at 

this point, once we received the $2000 from FEMA, they were cut 

off because at that point in time they are no longer qualified for 

food stamps. So now what was stated through FEMA is we could 

not use the money to buy food; we had to use it to buy housing. 

We want you all to know that there is nothing there stating that—

with the food stamps program stating that we cannot receive food 

stamps even though FEMA is issuing us the funds. So I wanted to 

64

make sure that you all were—that that was brought to your attention. 

Another thing that I wanted to let you know, I have a 15-yearold, a 13, and a 17-year-old. My—we live in a hotel in Lafayette, 

Louisiana, and we are going through, and you heard the problems 

that are going—that are faced right now with the hotels. 

Chairman NEY. Did you say three children? 

Ms. LEWIS. Three children. I am concerned because I have one 

son that is really dealing with this really hard and I am having 

personal problems with him because of this move and these problems that we are facing. Our State is still stating that the requirements for the LEAP test is still in place. 

From month to month, as you know, the deadlines come about 

and the hotel, they state that 1 month you have to move, the next 

month you have to move, but of course I could tell the kids that 

we have to move to another area because we do not know how long 

we are going to be in a hotel. 

I have applied for a trailer. They asked me if I had property. Yes, 

I have property. My house is gutted out and I asked them to put 

the trailer there. I have requested the trailer since October and I 

do not have, they have not came out to put the red markings on 

the property as they stated earlier. But I am still waiting; it has 

been since October and I still do not have a travel trailer in front 

of my door. So I just want to make, to bring these points to your 

attention. 

I have nothing further. 

Chairman NEY. You have been waiting since when? 

Ms. LEWIS. October. 

Mr. JEFFERSON. Mr. Chairman, if she can provide the information, I think we can help her household. 

Chairman NEY. That is what I was talking about. We can look 

into that type of delay. 

Ms. LEWIS. I am in the New Orleans East area. 

Chairman NEY. Ms. Boyer too has another issue I think we can 

look at and we will talk with you. Mr. Schedler. 

[The statement of Muriel Lewis can be found on page 129 in the 

appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF LARRY G. SCHEDLER, PRESIDENT, LARRY G. 

SCHEDLER & ASSOCIATES, METAIRIE, LA, TESTIFYING ON 

BEHALF OF THE NATIONAL MULTI-HOUSING COUNCIL/NATIONAL APARTMENT ASSOCIATION 

Mr. SCHEDLER. Chairman Ney, Ranking Member Waters, and 

distinguished members of the subcommittee, my name is Larry 

Schedler. I am the president of Larry Schedler & Associates in 

Metairie, Louisiana. I have been representing buyers and sellers of 

apartment communities here for the past 22 years and have transacted more than 20,000 multifamily units exclusively in the Gulf 

Coast region. 

I am here today at the request of two trade associations that represent the private apartment industry, the National Multi-Housing 

Council and the National Apartment Association. 

Since we are in New Orleans today, I would like to discuss the 

housing situation in this great city before and after Hurricane 

65

Katrina. The City of New Orleans is down, but definitely not out. 

It is estimated that approximately 260,000 residences, both owner 

occupied and rentals, in New Orleans were affected by Hurricane 

Katrina. It appears that 30 to 35 percent of our inventory of 50,000 

apartment units was critically affected by Hurricane Katrina. It is 

not unreasonable to assume that 15 to 20 percent of our total inventory of rental apartments will never be rebuilt without cooperation from all government entities. 

The area that sustained the largest amount of concentrated destruction is East New Orleans. East New Orleans was developed 

in the early 1970s and had become a predominantly moderate income apartment market. Its approximately 7500 rental units 

rented for an average of 65 cents per square foot. While these rents 

were sufficient to cover the operating expenses of these older properties, they are not sufficient to cover the cost of new construction 

even if the buildings were built to the pre-Katrina standards. 

Moreover, the cost of new construction all over the State will be 

higher because of higher cost building supplies, insurance, labor 

and the cost to meet anticipated changes in the building code. 

If a rebuilt New Orleans is going to include apartments, the Federal Government will have to be generous with incentives in the 

form of tax credits and grants. Otherwise new development will remain financially unviable. Good news is that there is already overwhelming investor interest in the New Orleans market. Developers 

have been searching for locations to develop new apartments, both 

in the city and the surrounding parishes. It is important to note 

that before the storm, 95 percent of the available apartments in 

New Orleans were occupied. This means that the city’s apartments 

were virtually full. So even before the storm damaged 35 percent 

of the housing inventory, there was virtually no surplus housing to 

help meet the rising demand. 

There is an unquestioned need to build more housing in New Orleans and the surrounding area. But meeting this need will require 

more Federal incentives and a streamlined redevelopment process. 

The rebuilding efforts are complicated by the fact that high demand, a limited supply of land, and rising construction costs will 

all combine to push the price of the resulting housing higher. If 

State, city, and Federal officials are serious about rebuilding the 

housing in New Orleans, they will need to make Federal incentives 

available. 

Fortunately, Congress has already passed and the President has 

signed into law new incentives to redevelop the Gulf Coast. The 

emergency allocation is $18 per capita, more then nine times the 

current law allocation of $1.90 per capita. Finally, the measure increases the size of the credit from 100 percent of qualified project 

costs to 130 percent of such costs by designating the areas as GO 

zones. 

If Louisiana is going to get the maximum value possible from the 

tax credit program, it needs to change its past practices of making 

small allocations and creating new affordable housing on a small 

scale. During the rebuilding period, it will be necessary to allow 

more credits per project. This will encourage developments that 

will meet the large scale need and it will attract well-capitalized 

66

developers who can utilize their skills to create more affordable 

housing. 

I thank you all for the opportunity to testify today and assure 

you that the NMHC and the NAA look forward to being a part of 

the solution to this housing crisis. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you, very much. Mr. Kelly. 

[The statement of Larry G. Schedler can be found on page 164 

in the appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF JAMES R. KELLY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, 

CATHOLIC CHARITIES ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW ORLEANS 

Mr. KELLY. I thank you for your concern. I thank you for your 

compassion and I thank you for your passion. 

Since 1727, Catholic Charities has been caring for the poor. It 

began in the 9th Ward. In the Nation, Catholic Charities started 

in the 9th Ward; we have a long history. Last year, we cared for 

125,000 people with such needs as hunger, poverty, unemployment, 

abuse, domestic violence, mental illness, and homelessness. 

I was in the Dome; I was at Armstrong Airport; I saw a lot; I 

saw a lot of brave people, a lot of really brave people and a lot of 

good people—the National Guard, the homeless, the vulnerable. We 

have been busy. We have been counseling folks. We have distributed 40 million pounds of food and provided emergency assistance 

and counseling to thousands of people and listened to too many stories like Ms. Lewis’s and Ms. Boyer’s and Ms. Stewart’s. 

We greatly appreciate what your committee has done. Appreciate 

that the legislation has finally been passed. I cannot image what 

Christmas would have been like in this town if some of that legislation had not passed. Hope is oxygen in this town. 

Thanks for what you have done on the Baker Bill, we pray that 

it will pass through Congress. Where and how to rebuild continues 

to be debated in our town. I lived in Washington; can you imagine 

if northwest and southeast Washington flooded and then we were 

going to take those neighborhoods and prioritize who got built first, 

rebuilt first and who got rebuilt last. Those would be some Congressional hearings. 

Prior to Katrina, 20 percent of our citizens lived below the poverty line, 30 percent of our children, 47 percent of African Americans. Sixty percent of the residents of New Orleans were renters, 

40 percent homeowner, a flip of the national average. 

Who were the victims of Katrina? Seventy-seven percent of the 

victims were African American. Rebuilding should be carried out in 

a manner that treats the area’s poor with the same respect and 

dignity as the most affluent. High ground should be set aside for 

rich and poor, white and black; diverse neighborhoods are our future. But without your intervention and your assistance, without 

the Government, the market will not be kind to the poor. 

Recently, Congress directed the Secretary of HUD to preserve 

Section 8, 202, 811, and HOPWA housing. Yet, on November 1st, 

HUD cut off rental payments to nonprofit 202 landlords and housing managers like the Holy Family Sisters. Many of these damaged 

and vacant apartments for low-income seniors are now nearing default. HUD’s most successful housing, the 202 program, will no 

longer be available to the elderly. So they cannot come home. And 

67

even if we fix the buildings, what do they come home to. No doctors, no pharmacies, so we are going to put the non-profit landlords 

out of business? That is a major issue. I pray that you can find out 

answers. 

Most welcome is the low-income housing tax credits. Two billion 

dollars of tax credits will get you 20,000 units of housing. That is 

not very many units, but it is wonderful. Never had anything like 

it, but it is only 20,000 units. And it does not set aside any percentage of those for the poorest of the poor, people making 30 or 40 percent of median income. I ask that you look into that and pass legislation; if not, the poorest of the poor will suffer some more. 

The new regulations also require that the credits be spent in the 

year that they are issued. That sounds efficient until you hear the 

complexity of the land issues in New Orleans. And also, understand as the mayor said that those credits could be spread across 

all of southern Louisiana, so we could get locked out. Credits will 

go to higher ground, go to areas in civil parishes or towns that do 

not have those effects and New Orleans could not get their fair 

share and I am sure it could happen in other parts of Louisiana. 

The construction of new affordable housing is going to take time. 

It is critical; there was a dire need before; there is a dire need now. 

So what do we do today? 

Fast track the rehabilitation of offline public and private housing; maybe we use eminent domain for some of these landlords sitting in New Orleans East who do not know what to do, rather than 

spending how much money on trailers. 

Increase the number of housing vouchers. 

Increase the value of these vouchers to 130 percent including 

KDHAP. 

Provide support and mental health services to the fragile. 

Transfer all housing responsibilities from FEMA to HUD. I have 

been in the very early meetings at the joint field office when a 

FEMA representative was asked once you put someone in those 

100,000 trailers that are on their way—this goes back to September—what do you do? Oh, we are done. 

Experts predict only 250,000 people will come back. 

Chairman NEY. Mr. Kelly, your time has expired, but if you 

would like to summarize. 

Mr. KELLY. The people of New Orleans are strong; they are 

brave; they need your support. We appreciate what you are doing. 

I will end with scripture. We are called to be one body, one spirit, 

one hope. To be successful we will need a spirit of humility and collaboration. Most importantly, we will need God’s grace and God’s 

speed. I pray that God will bless your efforts and through you the 

good and brave people of the Gulf Coast. 

Thank you. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you, Mr. Kelly. Ms. Kegel. 

[The statement of James R. Kelly can be found on page 122 in 

the appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF MARTHA J. KEGEL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

UNITY FOR THE HOMELESS 

Ms. KEGEL. Thank you, Chairman Ney, Ranking Member Waters, and members of the subcommittee. We are so grateful that 

68

you have come to New Orleans to shine a spotlight on the suffering 

of our people and we are so grateful for your obvious determination 

to end that suffering. I am grateful also for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of UNITY, which is an award-winning collaborative of 60 different agencies, governmental, non-profit, faithbased, large, small agencies that are providing housing and services to people experiencing homelessness and people at risk of 

homelessness in greater New Orleans. 

Throughout this crisis, members of our 60 agencies, which include Catholic Charities, have performed heroically while experiencing their own losses, and I want to recognize today two of those 

heroines of Katrina who are here today with me. Angela Patterson 

and Lori Adams, could you stand and be recognized. 

[Applause.] 

Ms. KEGEL. Angela Paterson of the Louisiana Public Health Institute stayed with her disabled clients at the Superdome for 5 

days serving them and immediately following that has not missed 

1 day serving disabled clients from the Health Care for the Homeless Clinic that is operating off of a boat. She is truly amazing. 

Lori Adams, like countless other people in our continuum of care, 

evacuated with her mentally ill clients, spending weeks with them 

in difficult accommodations far from home, all the while having to 

deal with her own disabled child. And she is also a heroine and so 

many of our staff members also deserve recognition and appreciation. 

We can and we will rebuild New Orleans, and with your help I 

believe that we can create a national model that will ensure that 

the people who are most adversely affected by Katrina, the people 

who are at most risk from being permanently displaced from their 

home communities, specifically the low-income disabled people and 

elderly people will be able to return home, will have a place to call 

home in their beloved city. And this model will also include affordable housing for musicians, hotel and restaurant workers, and 

other low-income workers who need affordable rental housing. 

Katrina’s catastrophic flooding caused widespread homelessness, 

including the tragedy of thousands of people with disabilities and 

elders losing their homes. Before the storm, the City of New Orleans had disproportionately high rates of poverty and severe disability. New Orleans counted 6300 people who are homeless, many 

of whom have serious and long term disabilities. Thousands of New 

Orleans residents were at constant risk of homelessness, were living on income below 20 percent of median income. Sixteen percent 

of New Orleanians suffered from serious disability. We cannot and 

we must not ignore the needs of these most vulnerable people as 

we rebuild our devastated city. It is up to all of us to ensure that 

the most vulnerable people affected by Katrina can come home. 

And this means creating new high-quality affordable rental housing that meets their needs. 

We have been working very hard in partnership with the city, 

the State, local non-profits, the National Alliance to End Homelessness, other national partners to create a plan to create 10,000 units 

of affordable housing, rental housing, including 5000 units of supportive housing for people with disabilities and special needs. This 

plan already has the support of members of Bring New Orleans 

69

Back Commission and the Housing committee of the Louisiana Recovery Authority. 

I understand that this Committee already strongly supports the 

supportive housing model as a proven strategy to end and prevent 

homelessness among people with disabilities and special needs. As 

you all know, supportive housing is permanent affordable rental 

housing that is directly linked to community-based services, health 

care, mental health care, employment services that allow people 

with special needs to stay housed and prevent them from becoming 

homeless. And in city after city, supportive housing has been proven to be cost effective and to be extraordinarily successful in keeping people with special needs housed. 

We have two requests of you today. First, in order to make this 

plan a reality when it is so very much needed, we will be coming 

to you for support, for rental subsidiary because the only way to 

make this plan work when the people who need supportive housing 

are extremely low income is if there is an ongoing operating subsidiary, a rental subsidiary, for these units to ensure that the housing is affordable. 

Second, we are very appreciative of your wanting to eliminate all 

unnecessary deadlines for Katrina victims, whether it be deadlines 

for leaving the hotels, deadlines for staying in trailers. We also ask 

that you look at eliminating all unnecessary deadlines for the 

KDHAP program. As you may be aware, the special needs portion 

of the KDHAP program still is not up and running because the 

forms and the contracts with the non-profits have still not been 

issued. 

Chairman NEY. Sorry, your time is expired, but if you would like 

to summarize, please. 

Ms. KEGEL. Meanwhile the people with special needs, homeless 

people, are being given a March 11th deadline to sign up, even 

though FEMA has always told them they were not eligible for 

FEMA assistance and there is no plan in place to effectively notify 

these persons of their eligibility for this program. So we would ask 

that you give people at least to December 31st of this year to be 

able to sign up for this program, which they cannot even access at 

this point, and to require that HUD or FEMA put into place an effective publicity plan to reach out to these people who so desperately need this assistance. 

In closing, I just want to quote President Bush in his speech in 

Jackson Square on September 15, 2005. ‘‘We want evacuees to 

come home for the best of reasons, because they have a real chance 

at a better life in a place they love.’’ 

Thank you so very much. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you. Mr. Perry. 

[The statement of Martha J. Kegel can be found on page 125 on 

the appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF JAMES PERRY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

GREATER NEW ORLEANS FAIR HOUSING ACTION CENTER 

Mr. PERRY. Committee members, I would like you to consider the 

following statements. 

I would like to live—‘‘I would love to house a single mom with 

one child, not racist, but white only.’’ 

70

‘‘Not to sound racist, but because we want to make things more 

understandable for our younger children, we would like to house 

white children.’’ 

‘‘Provider will provide room and board for $400 but prefers two 

white females.’’ 

These may sound like flashbacks to the 1960s, but these are advertisements that were on Katrina evacuee websites in 2005. 

My name is James Perry. I am director of the Fair Housing Action Center. I have 28 pages— 

Chairman NEY. Mr. Perry, that was on a website of who? 

Mr. PERRY. Sir, there are five websites. 

Chairman NEY. Okay. 

Mr. PERRY. Katrinahousing.org, Katrinahome.com, DHRonline, 

and reliefwelcomewagon.com. These websites have these discriminatory advertisements listed on the websites. I have 28 pages here 

of those very advertisements. My organization has investigated and 

found the advertisements and we have pursued litigation as a result. But very blatant discriminatory advertisements. Unfortunately discrimination is alive and well in the wake of Hurricane 

Katrina and Rita. 

My organization is an 11 year old organization that fights to 

eradicate housing discrimination. We have gotten more than 200 

complaints of housing discrimination since the hurricanes hit. And 

I am going to give you a few examples of some of the things that 

we have been uncovering. 

First is that some landlords have represented to black home 

seekers that vacant livable units were unavailable or unlivable. 

Some black home seekers have been charged more rent and higher deposits than the white, for African Americans than for their 

white counterparts. 

Rental agents have failed to return messages to African-American home seekers while returning the calls of their white counterparts. 

Rental agents offer special endorsements like lower security deposits to white home seekers while failing to offer the same to their 

black counterparts. 

People with mobility impairments have complained that there 

are few accessible units available to them. 

In December, we were forced to file a lawsuit against the City 

of Denham Springs after it applied its zoning code in a manner 

that discriminated against a group home for displaced New Orleans 

residents with mental disabilities. 

And I previously listed these five websites or noted these five 

websites. Important to note is that one of the websites, DRHonline, 

is specifically endorsed by FEMA. FEMA lauds this website as one 

of the best mechanisms for people to find housing. And this is in 

a Times Picayune article even after we filed a complaint against 

FEMA and even after FEMA knew that there were discriminatory 

advertisements on the website. 

A study by the National Fair Housing Alliance after the hurricane found that 66 percent of the time evacuees who were African 

American were treated less favorably than white evacuees seeking 

housing. 

71

I say to you, committee members, unfortunately, housing discrimination is alive and well after the hurricane. My organization 

is the single organization for assisting victims of housing discrimination in the entire State of Louisiana. Before the hurricane, we 

had four employees; since the hurricane, we are down to two employees because two of our other employees have been displaced. 

We receive some assistance in fighting housing discrimination from 

HUD, some assistance from the Lawyers Committee for Civil 

Rights Under Law, and some assistance from the National Fair 

Housing Alliance, but we need more help. And I heard you mention 

earlier that there has been money appropriated for fair housing 

and we need it, desperately need it, and we thank you for it. 

In addition to talking about housing discrimination, I want to address a few overall concerns when it comes to the rebuilding. The 

first is that I have got to make clear before we talk about housing, 

we need levees; we need category five strength levees. I know it 

has been said already, but I cannot emphasize enough how important and essential it is to us. 

With that said, the issue here is changed. It had been about food 

and water and these basic needs that people had, but it has 

changed and the new most important issue is housing and that is 

why we are all here today, because this housing issue is so very 

important. 

While I would submit that there are several places where FEMA 

has obviously failed when it comes to housing and I am not going 

to go into that too much because we have talked about them a good 

bit already. But I will talk about SBA for a moment because I 

think we have not focused on, we have not talked about SBA much. 

But essentially, SBA is running a housing program in that evacuees who need to get—who need to get loans in order to renovate 

their homes are directed by FEMA to SBA to apply for loans. 

SBA, in October, had turned down nine out of every 10 loans for 

housing assistance. Nine out of every 10 loans in October had been 

turned down for housing assistance. So the question becomes for a 

person who is relying on SBA for the loan to renovate their home, 

where do they turn? Because SBA is not going to help them. So one 

thing that I would implore is that you look at FEMA and SBA and 

consider that what they have actually had to do is change from 

business entities and from emergency management entities into 

housing entities. And so, just as the gentleman suggested earlier, 

we would recommend that HUD handle housing issue. HUD is a 

true housing entity. 

With regards to the Baker Bill, we do support the Baker Bill, but 

there are a few things that we want the committee members to 

consider as the Baker Bill makes its way through the process. The 

first is that right now it only gives 60 percent of the value of a 

home to a homeowner. We think that amount should be 100 percent. 

Second is that we want to make sure that participation in the 

Baker Bill remains completely optional and at no point does it ever 

become required for citizens. 

Next is that the Baker Bill sets it up so that developers can come 

in and develop properties. We think that there should be an option 

72

so that citizens could also choose to develop their own homes 

through the funds provided through the Baker Bill. 

Third is we think that there should be a requirement that the 

Baker Bill—that any developers who acquire property through the 

Baker Bill process are required to have mixed income developments 

and they are required to reserve a portion, at least 20 percent of 

the properties, and make them accessible for people who have mobility impairments. 

The last thing, the last point that I want to make is about the 

Hope 6 program. I think that the Hope 6 program on the whole is 

an excellent idea. It is this theory where you want to deconcentrate 

poverty and end residential segregation. Unfortunately, it has not 

worked in the City of New Orleans. I think that the committee 

members have viewed some of the Hope 6 projects and they are 

beautiful; they really look good. And here is the fundamental issue. 

What happened is that it has taken poverty that was concentrated 

in one area, deconcentrated that particular neighborhood, but then 

concentrated it in other low-income parts of the city. Right? So in 

effect, what happened is that there is more poverty in New Orleans 

East and in the St. Bernard housing development because so many 

residents who were in what are now Hope 6 projects were reconcentrated there. So there is more residential segregation as a result 

of the Hope 6 program here in the City of New Orleans. 

So we need some more guidelines to make sure that I guess 

when you desegregate you cannot desegregate just one neighborhood, because what happens is that you may end up segregating 

another neighborhood or reconcentrating poverty in another neighborhood. It has to be a citywide approach, a holistic approach. 

Finally, I would submit that here in the City of New Orleans, we 

have been through obviously a very, very tough time. You know, 

I think that in other parts of America where Katrina had some effect, it affected just about everybody. And it really did not have any 

care for what race a person was. But here, because of residential 

segregation, it happens to be that mostly African-American neighborhoods were affected. What I implore you is that as you consider 

legislation, you make sure that the goal of the legislation is to end 

residential segregation. If there had not been residential segregation, then Katrina would have affected people equally, but rather 

African Americans were affected by and large by the effects of Hurricane Katrina. 

In my comments there that I submitted, I have in my written 

comments about 44 recommendations or ideas for things to consider and there are some things that are directly appropriate on 

the Federal levels, so I implore you to take a look at those comments. 

Thank you. 

Chairman NEY. And you have that for the record for us? 

Mr. PERRY. Yes. 

Chairman NEY. Dr. Gable. 

[The statement of James Perry can be found on page 153 in the 

appendix.] 

73

STATEMENT OF DR. WILLIE GABLE, JR., EXECUTIVE VICE 

CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL BAPTIST CONVENTION, USA, INC. 

Mr. GABLE. I represent the National Baptist Convention, USA 

Housing Commission where I am executive vice chair and I am a 

board director of the American Association for Homes and Services 

to the Aging, representing about 6000 facilities for senior citizens 

in the country. My testimony has been provided to you and is on 

record. I would just like to, in the interest of time, highlight a couple of areas of the written testimony that is in your record. 

One is that I think it becomes critical that the project-based Section 8 certificates that HUD has, that there be an abeyance for 

those Section 8 project-based certificates for our units that have 

been damaged so that we do not lose those certificates, but that it 

be held until our facilities are brought back on line. If not, we are 

going to end up without any income. 

In addition, in the testimony we are asking that you would have 

HUD to immediately release dollars for project-based facilities so 

that we can get them back on line. When the hurricanes occurred 

in Florida, what happened was they were told that they could use 

their deductibles and they would reimburse them, but it was long 

coming in terms of being reimbursed by FEMA for those 

deductibles. 

In addition, HUD has REOs in a number of HUD properties that 

they own in and around the State and in the country. What we are 

recommending is that waivers be given and those properties be 

transferred to faith-based groups and to non-profits so that we can 

use those facilities to house low- and moderate-income individuals 

in those particular facilities. 

And the Louisiana Baptist State Convention, along with the National Baptist Convention and AAHSA, stands ready right now to 

receive some of those properties. What happens most of the times 

with the REOs is that the major corporations are able to purchase 

those because they have the funds to get them very quickly off the 

market from HUD. But if we had the opportunity, I think that we 

could do so. 

I wanted to share those highlights, but also to point out as a pastor and as a victim of Hurricane Katrina who lost everything in my 

home and my family—now living in Baton Rouge with my family—

, what I found out after the first week was that FEMA purchased 

all of the rental housing in Baton Rouge and locked it up so that 

most of us had to get—units that we have now in Baton Rouge, we 

either got them because of the blessings of God or somebody helped 

us. But they put FEMA employees in units. Particularly sometimes 

where you had two bedrooms, you have got one FEMA employee 

staying in a facility in the Baton Rouge and other areas. They purchased all of them and you can check that for the record. 

For the FHA program that is being touted saying that we can 

get, who had FHA homes, we can go to FHA and get a loan. They 

are not saying in the loan application—Mr. Williams, who was here 

is not saying for those who were eligible for FHA, the only way you 

can get that FHA 1-year mortgage payment is that you have to 

prove that you have no income. Well, I mean, I do not have any 

income, at least from my congregation, but my wife is working, so 

we will not meet the threshold to even get the FHA. And yet we 

74

cannot move back into our home. Actually, what we are doing is 

robbing Peter to pay Paul with Visa and MasterCharge. Peter and 

Paul is going to show up at some point to get paid and we realize 

that. 

The other thing is that with the $11 billion of CDBG dollars that 

you approved, the Louisiana Recovery Administration, as I shared 

with Congressman Cleaver, is going to be the group the State utilizes to develop the plan. So there will not be no community input 

on that. New Orleans should have gotten a portion of those dollars 

automatically rather than having to submit a plan to the State that 

does not have the capacity to handle the dollars. 

And then finally, Entergy in my area, where we have just been 

told yesterday we cannot rebuild in Lakeview, Entergy sent a letter 

yesterday to my home in Baton Rouge saying they are turning the 

electricity on and either I pay a monthly fee, even though I am not 

there, or I disconnect and if I disconnect I will get my deposit back, 

but then if I go back I will have to pay a new deposit that will be 

higher than the deposit that I have now. So, you know, I have to 

determine whether—obviously what I am going to do is pay a 

monthly fee and not be there because there is nobody in the neighborhood. So I think these particular things are quite important in 

terms of us trying to get together. 

Congresswoman Lee asked about connectivity. What we have 

been trying to do through Global Crossing/Bell South, we were able 

to get a 1-800 telephone number for our members of our congregation free of charge, and through that method we have been keeping 

at least 50 families online three times a week and providing them 

with information. We are a part of that 8000 that the mayor talked 

about who want, who have asked for a group of trailers to put on 

our properties around the church so that we can bring our members back. But like Jim Kelly and others have said, I had three funerals last week, last week, of individuals who died early because 

of this trauma. 

And so I thank you for coming. I implore you to continue to do 

what you are doing. As we come near the celebration of Dr. Martin 

Luther King’s holiday, I am reminded of something that he said. 

‘‘Our lives begin to end that the day that we remain silent on 

things that matter.’’ And I believe that you are going to—and I 

know in my heart you are not going to remain silent. 

I thank you. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you. Mr. Noel. 

[The statement of Dr. Willie Gable, Jr. can be found on page 108 

in the appendix.] 

STATEMENT OF RANDY NOEL, PRESIDENT, REVE, INC. 

Mr. NOEL. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Waters, members of the subcommittee. Thanks for the opportunity to 

come and address you. 

My name is Randy Noel. I am a custom home builder and I want 

to share with you the experiences that we have been having since 

the hurricane. My written testimony is an expansion of what I am 

going to tell you today. These are the things that we see are issues 

with us rebuilding this great city and the surrounding area. 

75

One of the significant problems is the homebuilders and the remodelers being able to find laborers. It has been very, very difficult 

to find people to work for us because, for example, I had a bricklayer that lived in the 9th Ward. He lost everything in the 9th 

Ward, moved on to Mississippi, and started to work there. He 

would have come home in the first couple of weeks, but he did not 

have any place to live. And so he remains in Mississippi. And we 

lost several of our workers that way. 

Then it came time to hire new workers and it was difficult to 

find new workers because the large contractors that were put on 

by FEMA were out hiring our people at double the salaries. We 

would have people come in; we would start the day with 10 framing 

carpenters to frame a new home and at the end of the day end up 

with four because they kept getting fed off at these higher salaries 

and these other opportunities which has made it really, really difficult for us to begin the rebuilding effort. 

The other thing about the temporary housing has been, as soon 

as the hurricane hit, most of the housing that was available was 

zapped up and you have heard that all day. And it was very difficult to get trailers. We went to the Office of Emergency Preparedness and said that we need trailers to put our laborers in so we 

can start to rebuild this area. Because most of the homebuilders in 

this area are small business people, they did not get the trailers 

as did the large corporations and larger refiners and manufacturing areas that were able to get trailers. 

And I have a son who wanted to get involved in the recovery effort. He hauled debris for about a month, then he wanted to deliver 

trailers. And this would give you an example of the situation with 

the trailers. He was going to pick up a trailer at Louie Armstrong 

Airport one day and they were going to release the trailers at 10:00 

and he got there at 10:00 and they said, well you need to go on 

home because the 25 trailers we release a day are already gone. So 

he had to go like the next day at 5:00 in the morning to get in line 

with a long line of folks that wanted to pick up trailers and deliver 

them to people’s home sites, but they only delivered 25 a day. And 

at that rate we will not have trailers for a long, long time. That 

needs to be addressed. 

Another situation that we are finding happen is the Homebuilder 

Association of Greater New Orleans put on a consumer fair last 

year where we invited people to come and ask us questions about 

rebuilding their houses, about remodeling their houses, and where 

to go and what to do. We had some thousand people show up and 

the number one question was they were completely confused about 

what to do next. And part of the problem is, is (a) in the media 

we have been constantly bombarded with we are going to raise the 

base flood level and you are going to have to raise your home. Well, 

that probably will not happen for almost a year to get new flood 

insurance maps put in place. The base flood elevation is the maps 

that we have had since 1984. So we were constantly telling people 

go ahead and fix your house; if your house is built after 1984, you 

do not have to raise it to the base flood elevation. 

The second thing was is FEMA has a mission statement that basically says that they want to mitigate future damage. Part of that 

issue is they go out and try to assess through the permitting office 

76

whether their home has been 50 percent substantial damaged or 

not. The definition of that is if your house was worth $120,000 before the storm, you take $20,000 out for the land value. After the 

storm, if it costs $50,000 or more to repair your home, you are now 

required to raise it to the base flood elevation if it is not at the 

flood elevation. 

The confusion is is the way that is established it is real subjective. It depends on who the person is making that establishment. 

So what they did is they put on a website, the city website, a range 

in a lot of cases, 40 to 70 percent.—What do I do now? And then 

if they show up at the permit office and try to get the permit to 

repair their house if they have been assessed as being more than 

50 percent, they have the opportunity to appeal it, but you cannot 

call the permit office right now because there is no way to get to 

them on the phone and if you go and get your building permit, it 

is a day’s event because of the line that is going in there. 

Part of the requirements that FEMA has is you have to have a 

building permit to do repairs. So everyone that is doing repairs has 

to go in and get a building permit. Now you can get the permit online, but the problem is you have to go to the office to get it. And 

they have kiosks set up in there, but they are five or six deep and 

they do not always work. So it makes it very difficult. 

The 50 percent rule, I can take four or five different appraisers 

come up with four or five different values and I can take four or 

five different contractors and come up with four or five different 

contracting repair values.—And which one is right and which one 

is wrong? It is just a bad way to do this at such a bad time. People 

are emotionally drained because of this whole process and then be 

confused about whether to rebuild, tear down, buy new, move 

away. It makes it very difficult. So we have to look at another way 

of doing this mitigating for future damage. This 50 percent substantial damage rule is real problematic. 

The BFE, Base Flood Elevation, needs to be clear. The people in 

New Orleans need to know if your home was built after 1984, we 

are not raising your house; you do not have to raise your house. 

Do not worry about the 50 percent substantial damage; go fix your 

house. That needs to be stated clearly so they know that so they 

can go ahead and fix the house. 

Chairman NEY. Your time is expiring. But you can summarize. 

Mr. NOEL. I think the most important thing that we need to do 

from the Federal Government perspective is our permitting office—

and from the homebuilders perspective—our permitting offices are 

swamped trying to meet this criteria. They do not have tax revenue 

to continue to have employees, so they had to lay employees off, so 

they cannot issue the permits so people can rebuild. 

We are confusing the folks with this 50 percent substantial damage rule and we are confusing the folks by not giving out a clear 

distinct message on the Base Flood Elevation. 

And one other thing, if I might add, is my firm believes if we are 

going to do anything about affecting people’s properties, they need 

to be an active, engaged person in that process. The American 

dream of owning property in this country needs to be protected at 

all cost. We are going to rebuild this great city and the Homebuilders Association are going to help rebuild the city. We have a 

77

lot of people from around the country that want to help rebuild the 

housing where those poor folks can go. We work with ownership 

wealth program; this is a major opportunity where we can move 

tenants into homeowners with the help that we are getting from 

around the country. And I think it is going to be exciting what happens in the next 5 years. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Randy Noel can be found on page 143 in the 

appendix.] 

Chairman NEY. Thank you very much. 

A couple of questions I had. Ms. Lewis, for families such as 

yours, the hotel rooms that you get, is it two rooms or one room? 

Ms. LEWIS. One room, two beds. 

Chairman NEY. One room. 

Ms. LEWIS. Double beds. 

Chairman NEY. Two beds. No other rollaway? 

Ms. LEWIS. No, and if you get the sofa bed, you get the king size 

but you just get one bed. So you can either get two double beds or 

you get the king size bed. 

Chairman NEY. I am not blaming the Hotel Motel Association for 

this. You built that a long time ago not anticipating that this was 

going to happen. I just need to say that. I just—like I said, as much 

as I dealt with this issue, there is just new things coming out that 

frankly unless—I do not know, I have not paid attention, that are 

not being talked about, about people’s conditions. 

A couple other points maybe you will want to answer or anybody 

else. What about, there used to be women shelters that women 

could go to if they had abuse of women; now those are gone I understood. Has there been anything recreated for example for 

women shelters, for halfway houses, for persons with special needs 

that had a workshop maybe they worked at? Back home we have 

workshops, things like that. Has that been temporarily recreated? 

Mr. KELLY. We ran the Crescent House Women’s Domestic Shelter in New Orleans. You have seen its picture everywhere. We also 

have a set of attorneys who work protecting women; we have counselors. We have two buildings; one we will probably open this 

month. In general, what we understand is women will not flee in 

the early months because they are afraid of what will happen. 

After 3 or 4 months, the post-traumatic stress starts, then the 

numbers are going to start to spike. Understand that a women 

flees 7 times. Once you put a person in a shelter, the idea of a shelter is to help them then move on to housing. We know the issue 

for those is permanent housing. We are working with a whole network throughout the State, so if we have a woman who needs to 

flee, we access other centers within the State. 

Mr. GABLE. We have two substance abuse facilities in the community and we have been working with FEMA to try to get those 

back on line and Louisiana Public Assistance Program. But I think 

there are about 160 pages that we are working through to get those 

two. Now we are keeping track of our clients to make sure where 

they are around the country and if they are getting the support. 

But the problem is getting the assistance from FEMA to get those 

buildings back open so that those individuals—and actually these 

78

are substance abusers who were managing their addiction saying 

that they want to come back. 

Ms. KEGEL. We had about 2700 emergency, transitional, and permanent housing in our continuum of care prior to Katrina and just 

this week we updated what the current status of all those units are 

and only about a quarter are currently operable. And that is primarily because of storm damage, most of the agencies still have not 

gotten their insurance settlement. Difficulty—they have difficulties 

finding, you know, companies to come out and do the work. That 

has been a major problem. And then the other problem is personnel; some of the buildings that have reopened have not been 

able to get at full capacity because so many employees have been 

lost, you know, were displaced and unable to come back home. 

Normally, I am not a fan of more emergency shelter, but actually 

in New Orleans we really could use a Red Cross shelter. And we 

have tried hard to get the Red Cross to open a shelter here and 

have not been successful. Because our street outreach workers are 

having to turn away. We estimate—they estimate to me that there 

is at least 2000 homeless people and I am not counting of course 

the people that are living in hotels and trailers. Just 2000 literally 

homeless people in New Orleans right now, and we only have one 

of the homeless shelters open right now. The others were not able 

to re-open for a variety of reasons; two of them were severely damaged. And this is a city that actually does need a Red Cross shelter 

more than anyone else and we cannot get a Red Cross shelter here. 

Chairman NEY. Do you know why? 

Ms. KEGEL. Well, I would rather have the city and Red Cross answer that question rather than put words in their mouths. 

Chairman NEY. Okay, one—we might ask that in a follow up letter. I think you mentioned something about a rental subsidiary 

deadline? 

Ms. KEGEL. Yes, the Katrina Disaster Housing Assistance Program, which is the HUD-run program for people who had received 

Federal HUD housing assistance prior to Katrina and/or were 

homeless prior to Katrina. That program has a March 11th deadline. And the special needs portion of it anywhere in the country 

is not even running at this point. And especially for the homeless 

people who were told by FEMA that they were not eligible for 

FEMA assistance, most of them never signed up for FEMA assistance. They tried to; they were told that they were not going to be 

eligible to get any help. So to tell them that—I mean to have a 

March 11th deadline when this program is not even accessible, as 

we speak, for a population that is very hard to reach and there are 

no funds in the KDHAP Program to do outreach, it is just not reasonable. And I think that if there has to be a deadline, it needs to 

be December 31 so that these non-profit organizations have a 

chance to try to do outreach and really there has to be a national 

publicity campaign to try to reach homeless people around the 

country to let them know that they are eligible for this program because many of our pre-Katrina homeless people are still scattered. 

There were many other heros who did a great job getting as 

many homeless people as possible to the Superdome before 

Katrina, so most of them ended up going to Houston. From HousVerDate 0ct 09 2002 16:04 Jun 20, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00084 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\DOCS\109.69 RODNEY
79

ton, they were evacuated all over the country. And they need an 

opportunity to avail themselves of this assistance. 

Chairman NEY. For the members, I will finish up here; I will be 

real brief. 

Dr. Gable, I think it was your personal home, you cannot rebuild, 

they said, you said can not rebuild? 

Mr. GABLE. Yesterday, the plan came out saying that our area 

in Lakeview— 

Chairman NEY. I am sorry, where is Lakeview in relationship 

to— 

Mr. GABLE. Out towards— 

Chairman NEY. We were by there today. I am sorry, yes. 

Mr. GABLE. So they are telling us that we cannot rebuild and, 

you know, that 50 percent that Mr. Noel was talking about. 

Chairman NEY. I am sorry. Who told you cannot rebuild? 

Mr. GABLE. Well, it is being recommended by the city’s Commission for Rebuilding New Orleans. 

Chairman NEY. Why would that be for Lakeview? 

Mr. GABLE. Because we were—the levees there are not sufficient 

and again having grown up here, it was never the levees; it is a 

levee wall. And the levee walls were engineered improperly, constructed improperly, and maintained improperly. And that is what 

broke. You did not have water going over the Mississippi levee or 

the Lake Pontchartrain levee. There is a difference in the old levees with the mound and a levee wall that holds the water back. 

The water pushed those walls and that is what caused the flooding. 

Chairman NEY. What would be the difference of decision of rebuilding, let us say, in the 9th Ward versus where you are at or 

was it, were you so close to the levee that the force of it was more 

destructive? 

Mr. GABLE. I have not had a chance to read the report to go online. It just came out yesterday. Some others might be more familiar with it. 

Chairman NEY. I am just curious what makes the difference that 

you can rebuild in the 9th, but you cannot rebuild— 

Mr. PERRY. It does not really say that you can rebuild in one 

neighborhood or another. What it says is that there should be a period where citizens should come back to the worst affected areas 

and start to work and if the areas see a significant come back, then 

the city will make a decision at that point to start to dedicate resources to that area. If the neighborhood does not get together and 

come up with some type of plan and start to come back, then the 

city will not designate resources. So, in essence, what they say is— 

Mr. GABLE. We have got to do that in 48 days. 

Chairman NEY. That is hopeless. 

[Laughter.] 

Chairman NEY. You think the Feds are bad. 

Mr. PERRY. What they say is that you have to wait this whole 

period; they recommend do not issue any permits; do not do any 

construction at all until they determine what neighborhoods are 

the neighborhoods that will come back. So if you are in Houston, 

or somewhere else, you are supposed to sit there and wait until the 

city makes a decision about which areas. We do not know if it is 

going to be lower nine. 

80

Chairman NEY. But in my hometown, I had a county that had 

24 percent unemployment; it is Appalachia; our steel mills closed, 

et cetera, but the whole thing is you can live in a county that has 

some depressed economy, but you can live in one place and work 

in another. So it is not really incumbent upon just what stores are 

rebuilt in a neighborhood, I would not assume. I do not want to get 

way into this. This is some local discussions, but if they are going 

to use Federal money or want Federal help too, those discussions 

I think need to occur, my opinion, with the Fed, State and local. 

Mr. KELLY. It would be helpful for you all to see the map of 80 

percent of the city. 

Chairman NEY. I have not seen it. Could we get a copy of that 

map? 

Mr. JEFFERSON. It was a capitulation to the idea that the decision makers on the committee did not want to make a decision. But 

they have made one impliedly by giving the citizens such a short 

window of opportunity. Basically, the decision bears no relation to 

the risk that is supposedly presented in the neighborhood for flooding. If enough people hold their hands up, no matter how low the 

area is, they apparently get paid attention to. And if they do not 

hold their hands up, of course. They do not. 

Now this is totally counter-intuitive if you are talking about how 

to make the area safer for people to live in and you are worried 

about areas of survival, that is one thing. What I think is happening here of course is that there was just a reluctance for the 

Commission to say we do not think you ought to rebuild here. They 

made it impossible for people to come to decision themselves to do 

it. So consequently they are going to say people are unable to have 

meetings to sustain themselves. We have communities and we have 

virtual communities with folks all over the country; how can they 

come together in that short period of time. How can they make a 

decision at the end of the day. If they keep to this proposal, you 

will have large parts of the city written off. 

Without taking up the committee’s time, as I said today if the 

Netherlands can live 20 feet below sea level and they are there for 

the reason that it has economic potential, they need deep sea water 

in order to have a huge port like they have. That justifies the existence of the Netherlands. There would be no Netherlands without 

this deep sea water. But it presents a threat. 

We are here because of the river. New Orleans is justified as a 

community because of its situation on the river and access to the 

Gulf and on out to the world. Otherwise there would be no reason 

for it to be here. We have to learn to live with the water and I 

guess all the rest of it, the oil and gas and all the rest of it that 

we explore off here. 

So, in any event, without taking up the committee’s time, what 

essentially has happened here is you have made a plan which essentially is going to write off large parts of the city if it is adopted, 

and I hope it will not be adopted in the way it was presented. 

Chairman NEY. I want to ask Ms. Lewis—another question for 

Ms. Lewis. The schools, how are children; children are going to 

school? 

Ms. LEWIS. Yes, children are going to school. They catch the 

buses from the hotels. 

81

Chairman NEY. I noticed some of the schools were destroyed; I 

think I saw Martin Luther King Elementary; I saw it. 

Ms. LEWIS. I was not speaking about here; I was speaking about 

in Lafayette. 

Chairman NEY. Oh, I am sorry. I was talking about here, people 

that were here in hotels or in Lafayette. So you are in Lafayette. 

Ms. LEWIS. I am in Lafayette. 

Chairman NEY. There is a school over there; I am sorry. One 

other thing, what about counseling services; obviously people are 

under all this stress. Children, you know, are in hotel rooms, and 

it is tough enough if you have five or six rooms and you know how 

things are. So are there counseling services, a number that people 

can call, pick up the phone and call somebody? 

Ms. LEWIS. When I first went into the area and I started having 

problems with my son, because he felt that he lost everything, he 

was devastated with the situation. He is a 15-year-old; I went to 

the school and asked them for counseling. They did not quite—of 

course, this was new to them too. So they told me that we could 

have someone come in and talk to him for maybe an hour and that 

is about all we can do. They said that was something that has to 

be in place from the State level in order to put counseling in the 

schools. So I asked them what about the requirements for the 

LEAP test for my son, because he is in the 10th grade. They stated 

that he would have to pass the LEAP test like everybody else 

would have to pass, even though he went through the devastation 

he went through. I went several times and asked for counseling for 

him. But since—I think one school I found out they did have now 

in place I think it is 1 hour a week with the students. 

Chairman NEY. So the school is helping, the school is the resource people would probably turn to for children then, the school 

is the resource for counseling? 

Ms. LEWIS. I asked many schools about it because I went to several schools to visit other children besides just mine. They really 

do not have a clue how to deal with this situation because they 

have not been through that themselves. So they really do not understand what the children are actually going through. 

I have a friend that lives in Houston and her son got in a fight 

for the first time because kids were teasing him because he came 

from New Orleans and he lost everything. He was saying about his 

little toys he had lost, so he took it personal as a child of course. 

So the kids, they do not—the teachers do not understand, some of 

the principals either, why the children are acting out at this time. 

Chairman NEY. Mr. Schedler, real quick, there is a lease issue. 

I heard it in Washington with our hearings; there was a lease 

issue. I cannot remember exactly what it was, but that the people 

in the hotels were having a problem because the Government—I do 

not know if it was FEMA; I think it was FEMA—could only say 

you could have a 3-month lease or something. Do you know what 

I am speaking of? There was an issue and they said that people 

that had, you know, obviously had rental properties, it would be 

hard to say okay, 3 months, we will do a lease for you. It is hard 

to require—have you heard of that issue at all. 

Mr. SCHEDLER. Are you talking about hotels specifically? 

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Chairman NEY. The people living in hotels and now want to 

come into apartments. 

Mr. SCHEDLER. Okay, what I have seen down here has been generally what they have done before which is 6 month leases. 

Chairman NEY. Six months, okay. 

Mr. SCHEDLER. I cannot speak for everybody; I think most owners are probably going for 6 month leases. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you. Ms. Waters, thanks for your patience. 

Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to again thank you and 

thank all the Members who showed up here today, thank all panelists who helped us to understand exactly what is going on here. I 

am going to leave here pretty disgusted, feeling that there has been 

a lot of bumbling, incompetence, manipulation, insensitivity, and 

everything that I can think of to describe what I believe is a lack 

of responsiveness or will to do what needs to be done to provide 

some basic assistance to people who have been devastated in ways 

that most of us never ever ever could have imagined before. 

And so I am having several thoughts here. One is I am going to 

work with Mr. Jefferson taking a look at some of the needs that 

have been identified today to see if we cannot expedite a few 

things; just take some of these things as case management kind of 

needs and see if we cannot move some things. Mr. Jefferson is back 

in—for example, Dr. Gable, this site for the potential of 8000 trailers to be put on property that you have identified, I think that 

should be one of the cases that we take on with FEMA to see if 

we cannot move it along with these individuals that you are going 

to try and help. 

I often feel a lot better about helping to solve problems when I 

can personally do something, I can get involved in some way to 

make something happen. And I think we have identified a number 

of things. 

Let me just say to the Hotel Association here, we do not intend 

to have anybody placed on the streets by FEMA because they cut 

off payments to the hotels and we do not intend to have you in a 

position where FEMA is abandoning the tenants and you have to 

put them out. I think that is an untenable position to be in. And 

given all that you have done, if FEMA continues the payments, as 

they will, we are going to have to make sure they do that. We ask 

that you bear with us as long as you possibly can to get people 

transferred into either transitional housing or permanent housing. 

So I appreciate what you have shared with us today. 

That is on our radar screen and that is what the Congressional 

Black Caucus met with FEMA about before we left and we did 

make it clear to them that we do not intend to have anybody to 

be put on the streets with these deadlines that do not make good 

sense to us. 

All of you have given us some very, very valuable information. 

Some other things that I think we could do very quickly is, if 

FEMA is supporting a racist website, we are going to deal with 

that right away. They have no business having their names in support of any racist website that is advertising, you know, apartment 

rentals under those kinds of conditions. Things that we can try to 

do right away. 

83

We have heard more than once today, and I am glad that you 

are bringing it to our attention because we are the Housing Committee, that FEMA is not capable or competent to handle the housing needs of this community. And so I hope that—this discussion 

has been raised before, Mr. Chairman, about whether or not HUD 

should be the agency that is doing the housing, that is taking care 

of the housing. We are going to have to find a way to revisit this 

and see if we cannot only respond to what we hear, but what we 

really know also about how to start to deal with these housing 

needs. 

I guess there are several other issues that have been raised here 

today as far as Mr. Schedler has identified the need for looking at 

how to rebuild these units, how to do it quickly, how to have a one 

stop shop; how to get rid of some of the onerous requirements, all 

of that. I would think that giving the so-called appreciation for the 

needs of the business communities like so many Members of Congress that this should be done in the State and the local government, et cetera, right away. 

I appreciate all the non-profit agencies and Catholic Charities 

and others and the Salvation Army who are feeding the people 

every day, who are taking care of the homeless and all of that. And 

I appreciate you doing it without the resources that this Government should be providing for you to do it. 

Now having said some of that—and I cannot say everything that 

I am feeling right now—I am probably going to have a lot of sleepless nights. This business of who gets the assistance of local government and the requirements of local governments about what 

areas may be rebuilt based on, as Mr. Jefferson describes it, who 

raises their hand is absolutely ridiculous, outrageous, and cannot 

be tolerated. 

And I just have to say to you, while I am a legislator and a Member of Congress with the responsibility for public policy—I am an 

activist and an organizer. I may do that better than even legislating. And if it takes me connecting with many of the activist organizations around the country to come back into the communities 

and help them raise their hands under this ridiculous requirement, 

Mr. Jefferson, I just tell you that many of us will dedicate our time 

to doing that. 

If New Orleans wants to be the focal point for national activism, 

then let it be. We had some activists in the audience today who 

come from a lot of different communities around this country and 

I just tell you that many of them are going to leave here feeling 

the way that I feel, that maybe this whole Government is too slow. 

Maybe this whole Government does not care enough. Maybe this 

whole Government needs a kick in the behind. 

And so if it is going to take some national activism to help move 

public policy, just as the people empowered me to be a public policymaker, I feel like they also empowered me to be an activist and 

I do not mind doing it. 

So with that, I am not going to ask any more questions. I am not 

going to say anything else except to tell you all I am up to doing 

what has to be done. Okay? 

Thank you, very much. 

Chairman NEY. The gentlelady from California. 

84

Ms. LEE. Thank you very much. As we say in the House, I associate myself with the remarks of the gentlelady from California. 

But let me say to you today that this has been probably more 

devastating than most of us had in mind and, in fact, I agree with 

Congresswoman Watson; Every member of Congress needs to come 

down here, every Member, because every committee has some jurisdiction over an effective and immediate response. 

Secondly, much of what you shared today, I did not know, for example, what Ms. Lewis said about the food stamp issue and guaranteed I will go back and we are going to look at that. I assume 

all of you know that in fact once a displaced resident gets the 

$2000 from FEMA, then they are ineligible for food stamps. That 

is really mind-boggling; I cannot believe that. Trust me, we will go 

back and look at how we can fix that, because to me that is probably one of the most inhumane policies that a government could 

promulgate under such dire circumstances. 

On the homeless issue, with regard to eligibility of the homeless 

for whatever assistance is out there, we are going to have to figure 

out where, first of all, the homeless are. You say there are about 

2000 left right now here in New Orleans. But how do we find everyone? And then how do we make sure that if they did not have 

a place to live other than a shelter that they are eligible for the 

type of HUD assistance and FEMA assistance that they deserve. 

And you know, I am not sure how the rules impact those who were 

homeless and had to leave. So we are going to have to look into 

that and I look forward to working with you on that. 

Again, going back to the suicide rates and the mental health 

needs, these issues are directly related to housing and the hope 

that is out there in terms of the ability to return and not return. 

And we are going to have to figure out how to make sure that HUD 

or FEMA or whatever appropriate agency we can find, has the resources for mental health services because that is not disconnected 

from housing. 

And young people, in terms of their acting out, we are going to 

see a lot more. I know we are going to see safety issues; we are 

going to see serious long term mental health issues with children 

and with senior citizens and with others. So we are going to have 

to figure out how to work with the appropriate agencies to make 

sure that we can find—the money is there I know, but how we can 

redirect or direct money for the very severe mental health needs 

of individuals in this region. 

Finally, let me just say with regard to the discrimination and the 

racism, we saw that coming. We knew it and in fact in the CBC 

Bill, the Congressional Black Caucus Bill and the Baker Bill, we 

did put in the requirement that HUD redirect some resources to 

hire, you know, complaint officers and individuals to make sure the 

fair housing laws are complied with. 

I am not sure if people—I mean people who are displaced and 

just trying to get home, I do not know if they—and Mr. Perry, 

maybe you can answer this, if they are aware that they can file 

housing discrimination complaints and fair housing complaints or 

are they too bogged down right now with just survival to let it pass 

by if in fact they are treated in an unfair manner? 

85

Mr. PERRY. I would submit that New Orleanians are aware of 

their rights under the fair housing rules because this organization, 

even before I lead it, did a good job at education and outreach in 

the New Orleans area. 

Ms. LEE. Good. 

Mr. PERRY. Katrina evacuees who are not from the New Orleans 

area I think do not have the same opportunity. One of things that 

demonstrates though that New Orleans know is that about 75 percent of our complaints are coming from outside the New Orleans 

metro area. The New Orleanians who are in other parts of Louisiana who have been discriminated against call us and we will investigate the case. 

Ms. LEE. So the number of cases should increase with HUD’s fair 

housing complaint division? 

Mr. PERRY. Yes, I think so. I will be frank though; the biggest 

issue we have in this is that we do not have enough resources to 

adequately investigate all the cases. 

You may be familiar with the process that we go through to investigate fair housing. We do testing. So if an African-American female calls in and says that she has been a victim of discrimination, 

then we will send an African-American female and a white female 

to that apartment to try to rent that same apartment and see if 

they are treated equally. And so we had a pool of about 50 testers 

who used to go out and do that testing for us. But they are dispersed all across America like everyone else. So we have had to retrain testers. We have to pay testers every time they go out and 

do these investigations. Instead of the investigations being right 

here in New Orleans, we are sending them to Shreveport and to 

Lafayette and very far distances and those are expenses that the 

organization has to incur. So it has been difficult to investigate. 

One other thing that has made it difficult is that there are loads 

and loads of unfair and improper evictions that are happening. And 

a lot of times, these evictions are not really discrimination issues; 

they are just frankly unfair or inappropriate evictions and sometimes they are fair and appropriate evictions. But people call us 

and say well, you know, fair housing. This is a housing issue and 

they may not be familiar with the fair housing laws. So we have 

to go through those hundreds of calls that we get to determine 

which ones are housing discrimination issues and which ones are 

really kind of landlord-tenant issues. 

Mr. GABLE. If I may just add, Congresswoman, you know, in my 

case, the landlord went up $140.00 from the previous date, but I 

had to get a place to stay the week after and so it may not be on 

color. It might just be on cash. 

Ms. LEE. Gouging. 

Mr. GABLE. You know, you just do it because you have no other 

place to take; it is two bedroom that is all you had available. I 

would suspect now that we are going into the sixth month and we 

have to re-up those leases; it is going to be much more. They are 

going to kick it up even higher because they know we have no 

place to go. 

Mr. PERRY. I would add one more thing. In the case where landlords are upping the rents. One thing that we have seen is that 

there will be these low-income African-American complexes. LandVerDate 0ct 09 2002 16:04 Jun 20, 2006 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00091 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\DOCS\109.69 RODNEY
86

lords will come in and try to get rid of all these low-income AfricanAmericans and try to move in new Katrina evacuees. And so to the 

extent that it affects mostly African Americans, it is a discrimination case. 

Now the fair housing law says you do not necessarily have to 

have intent, just the actual impact of discriminatory treatment. So 

there are some ways that those become cases, but that makes it so 

much more difficult with only two people to investigation. 

Ms. LEE. Sure. Thank you very much. 

Finally, let me just conclude by saying again, I just want to commend you for your service, your—really, everyone is going so far 

beyond the call of duty—and for your tenacity and steadiness. And 

just know that, as Congresswoman Waters said, many of us intend 

to work to make sure that what we feared initially in terms of the 

ripoff of New Orleans by developers quite frankly, I saw that and 

thought that could be a possibility, you could see million dollar 

condos going up where a $100,000 house had been because of some 

of the dynamics around gentrification and land grabs that we know 

could take place. But just know that many of us are on to that also 

and look forward to working with you as you move forward in this 

recovery process. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you. Mr. Cleaver. 

Mr. CLEAVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to just emphasize again what Reverend Gable said and take it just one step 

further. When Congress passes legislation or when we appropriate 

dollars for HUD—and this committee does that—we do not get involved in the regulations. The HUD infrastructure does that, the 

career bureaucrats. I think in this case we might need to have the 

Secretary come to our committee because of a couple of things. 

First of all, regulations require public hearings. The public hearings are, in most major cities, the most contentious meetings mayors conduct and for those of you who are here from New Orleans, 

you know it is usually packed to the walls and it is just the night 

that we have to deal with it. It is just the way it is. But if we ever 

have those hearings on a statewide basis, first of all, who do you 

notify and secondly who conducts the hearing? I can go on and on 

and on. 

The other part of it that is as equally disturbing is, there—we 

are not even sure that the regulations will require a 30-day notice. 

There is some suggestion that maybe the regulations has been altered to 3 days. 

And then finally, this is one of the realities of America. In my 

State, there are two major cities, Kansas City and St. Louis. If we 

have to depend on the State to disburse CDBG money, we would 

lose; it is over. Not just in Missouri, in every major—in every State 

in the country, if it is in California—and the reason is simple, the 

majority of the members of the General Assembly come from the 

rural areas. And what you are going to have is a fight for $11.1 

billion between New Orleans and those Mississippi small communities. And I cannot overstate, I do not think I am exaggerating the 

fact that this has been done in a way that is—people are almost 

going to go to fisticuffs. What is needed is an allocation for New 

Orleans based on the devastation, the disparity, the size of the 

87

community, the way that the CDBG budget is normally allocated. 

And then there ought to be the money disbursed in other areas. 

The other concern is members in other communities need to 

know that the Government is not supposed to say, we are going to 

give you this much money. And probably most of the people do not 

know that. That is, let us say for example in Mississippi, the Governor just says, okay, this community gets this much, that is not 

the way it is supposed to run. I do not think this committee can 

afford not to see what regulations have been put in place for the 

disbursement of this money. If we fail to do it, I think these people 

are going to be mad at somebody, and I just want you to remember 

my name, that I am the one that tried to stop it. 

Thank you. 

Chairman NEY. Ms. Watson. 

Ms. WATSON. Thank you so much. And I again want to thank the 

chairman and the ranking member for coming here to the scene of 

the disaster and evaluating. 

And I just want to very quickly suggest some things that will 

summarize what I have heard today. First, we ought to make it 

possible for local government and for the mayor to know where his 

or her citizens are and we ought to have those lists released so that 

the footprint for New Orleans will not change. 

The next thing that I thought was an excellent suggestion is that 

we have the GAO to come in to review how to make the financing 

for temporary housing available, trailers, et cetera. 

The Section 106 rates need to be honored and the tax credits and 

grants for new housing need to be given and I think that the people 

who are without income because they are without jobs and they 

have nowhere to live need to be given special consideration for long 

term rentals and leases. It just does not make sense to me to put 

people who have suffered through this disaster through those hurdles. 

We need to increase the value of housing vouchers and we need 

to do something about the Katrina websites that have discriminatory messages on them. That is an outrage; it is illegal in terms 

of Government agencies and we can do something about that, Mr. 

Chairman, right now. 

SBA has never been an agency that I thought reacted effectively 

to loan applications and what I understand is SBA has turned 

down nine out of 10 loan applications for new housings. That is 

outrageous too. And HUD should handle housing financing. I think 

what we need, Mr. Perry, is an ombudsman process, where all 

these complaints like we heard today, and they are in many different categories, are heard and then directed where something can 

be done about them. 

I want to thank all of you who have testified today. And you 

have brought home to us the specifics that occur after disasters. 

You know, we get broad general reports in Congress; it is not until 

we get on the site to hear from those of you affected that we know 

the specifics. And thank you for coming and testifying, and I think 

we have most of your written testimony. And I trust the leadership 

of this committee that something will be done. 

88

And we certainly will be compiling the recommendations and approaching those agencies and the departments that can make a difference. 

So, again, thank you very much. And thank you, Mr. Chairman 

and ranking member for holding this hearing. 

Chairman NEY. I just want to make a brief statement and ask, 

since it is the district that you represent, I will ask you to close, 

as we say in the U.S. House. 

Just a technical thing, I want to note that some members may 

have additional questions for this panel which they may want to 

submit in writing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 30 days for members to submit written questions to 

these witnesses and to place their response in the record. 

I think we could do a fair housing hearing in Washington; we 

could do a fair housing on Katrina. I think make it comprehensive, 

we can do that. I think it would be a good idea. 

The other thing I want to mention and not to single out Catholic 

Charities, but some of the first information we received on this was 

Catholic Charities and we found—on this whole situation down 

here in Washington, gave us great ability to tell us what was going 

on, where people were moving to, how everything was going. And 

we learn from groups frankly quite a lot and so I urge all of you 

if you have, some of the things we have discovered today, I think 

we can help with. Ms. Boyer has the four inch problem with the 

driveway, et cetera. Some of those things I think we can help with. 

As you have issues and something is not going right, do not assume we know. You can call us; you can call my office; you can call 

the ranking member’s office, Mr. Oxley, Mr. Frank; we all share information. So please, if you have things, do not assume we already 

heard it. 

And I just want to again thank the Port Authority facility here 

and also our colleague Mr. Jefferson for helping us with this hearing and hosting us down here. 

Let me just say again, I cannot tell you, you know, how much—

we all have worked with these issues, but also coming here and 

seeing it, things struck me today in the home we went into and I 

am assuming it was an older woman’s home and on the wall was 

her daughter’s graduation picture and next to it was Amazing 

Grace poster and the Last Supper. No one—she had to move so fast 

that she did not take the picture. You know, I have children. If you 

say what can you take, you know, you can take a few personal 

things, you would take the picture. I mean, and when you see that, 

it is just like their life stopped and now they are in a situation 

where they are in complete limbo, the people are. You have got a 

lot of brave people, people really fighting down here to help other 

people and I know from my end of it and I think I can speak for 

all members, this is a good hearing. 

I do not want you think we have not done our work; we have 

been doing it since day one together, screaming and fighting not 

with each other mainly, but to get answers from people. So this 

hearing though is good on the ground. Thank you. 

Mr. Jefferson, would you like to close. 

Mr. JEFFERSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I cannot tell you how 

grateful I am to you and to Ranking Members Waters and to all 

89

of the committee members who have come here today, my colleagues in Congress; thank you so much for coming to pay attention and to shine the light on the subject that is so critical to all 

of us in this Nation. But for the people here in New Orleans it is 

their lives; it is everything to them. 

During this period of time when Members can travel to far away 

pleasant places when we are out of session and observe things that 

are less traumatic and less difficult than here, they have chosen to 

come here, which shows a great deal about their commitment and 

their passion and their interest in helping us to get through this. 

So I thank each of you again for fulfilling the, I think, more than 

any of you thought the objectives that we had in mind when we 

asked you to come. Now your having come gave you a chance to 

be close to our community. The worst and the most difficult challenges and of course the best of it in the people who have come to 

testify who you have had a chance to encounter. And I think it has 

been a brilliant display of an array of people from different walks 

of life who have made the case as to why we ought to rebuild our 

city, how we can rebuild our city, and the things that we must do 

to work together to get that done. 

From the ordinary citizens who have themselves been evacuees 

and who are still living as evacuees to the church-based, faithbased communities that have done so much to help stand things 

back up here to the folks that are interested in keeping the historic 

character of our city together some sort of way and to those folks 

that are trying to build our city back through all the red tape and 

risk that is out there. 

And the issues that you talked about with the low income housing tax credit, we tried to make it as flexible and as large as we 

could this time. I read your testimony, and I see there are a few 

things here that we perhaps need to watch with our own State 

rules and work on that. 

And to the Hotel Association and Motel, it has been helpful to 

our people, I think, what Ranking Member Waters said. We need 

to give you a little certainty as to how you can help without burdening you too much, to make sure our people are in good shape. 

This issue about the State—FEMA has this business which I 

think we ought to try to figure out about how the State plan requirement works. FEMA does not want to deal with all these cities 

and school boards and parish governments; they say we are just 

going to deal with the State, which is why CDBG money, which ordinarily would come to an entitlement city like New Orleans, and 

some part of it goes to the State under this FEMA operated State 

plan. There is not much reason why we ought to do that. We have 

got the formulations there already; we ought to know how these 

things can be disbursed, except that it is going to be quite a challenge to get it out of the State. And it will be, it will not be so 

much Mississippi because we are going to get an allocation at some 

point that is just for Louisiana. But it will be the towns in Louisiana outside of here that will lay claim one way or another, for 

some reason or the other. Because you are in Lafayette, somebody 

will say we had an impact in Lafayette; forget about New Orleans; 

let us just bring some money there to take care of that local impact. 

90

So we have a lot of challenges here, but I am convinced that it 

is just a matter that is a matter of political will as to what choices 

we make. It is not what we can do. It is not what we cannot afford. 

It is none of those things. It is what we want to do to bring back 

this city, what our vision is for New Orleans and for this region, 

as I have said in my earlier testimony. 

So this I think helped us to advance the idea that we can pull 

our city back and make ourselves whole as well as we can with 

some folks we have already lost, but as whole as we can now, given 

the circumstances. So this could not be advanced without a committee willing to come out in the field as it says and hold a field 

hearing without the constraints of Washington that cuts the time 

so short and makes it so difficult to have discussions, do it out here 

with your people. This could not be done without your having come 

here. 

So thank you very much for what you have done, and thank you 

for your presentations. And we are grateful to everyone who has 

helped to make this project work out so well. 

Thank you very much. 

Chairman NEY. Thank you for your time. 

[Whereupon, at 7:40 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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