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81–562 PS 2002

VA’S ABILITY TO RESPOND TO DOD

CONTINGENCIES AND NATIONAL EMERGENCIES

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

OCTOBER 15, 2001

Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs

Serial No. 107–14

(

October 30, 2002 
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman

BOB STUMP, Arizona

MICHAEL BILIRAKIS, Florida

TERRY EVERETT, Alabama

STEPHEN E. BUYER, Indiana

JACK QUINN, New York

CLIFF STEARNS, Florida

JERRY MORAN, Kansas

HOWARD P. (BUCK) MCKEON, California

JIM GIBBONS, Nevada

MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho

RICHARD H. BAKER, Louisiana

ROB SIMMONS, Connecticut

ANDER CRENSHAW, Florida

HENRY E. BROWN, JR., South Carolina

JEFF MILLER, Florida

JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas

LANE EVANS, Illinois

BOB FILNER, California

LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois

CORRINE BROWN, Florida

JULIA CARSON, Indiana

SILVESTRE REYES, Texas

VIC SNYDER, Arkansas

CIRO D. RODRIGUEZ, Texas

RONNIE SHOWS, Mississippi

STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts

SHELLEY BERKLEY, Nevada

BARON P. HILL, Indiana

TOM UDALL, New Mexico

SUSAN A. DAVIS, California

PATRICK E. RYAN, Chief Counsel and Staff Director

(II)

October 30, 2002 
(III)

C O N T E N T S

October 15, 2001

Page

VA’S Ability to Respond to DOD Contingencies and National Emergencies ...... 1

OPENING STATEMENTS

Chairman Smith ...................................................................................................... 1

Prepared statement of Chairman Smith ........................................................ 65

Hon. Lane Evans, ranking democratic member, Committee on Veterans’

Affairs .................................................................................................................... 3

Prepared statement of Congressman Evans .................................................. 72

Hon. Julia Carson .................................................................................................... 4

Hon. Stephen E. Buyer ............................................................................................ 10

Hon. Bob Filner ....................................................................................................... 14

Hon. Vic Snyder ....................................................................................................... 14

Hon. Tom Udall ....................................................................................................... 5, 16

Prepared statement of Congressman Udall, with attachment ..................... 75

Hon. Cliff Stearns .................................................................................................... 12

Prepared statement of Congressman Stearns ................................................ 79

Hon. Michael K. Simpson, prepared statement of ................................................ 80

WITNESSES

Allen, Hon. Claude A., Deputy Secretary, U.S. Department of Health and

Human Services ................................................................................................... 22

Prepared statement of Mr. Allen ..................................................................... 113

Bailey, Sue, Former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs ............. 47

Prepared statement of Dr. Bailey ................................................................... 128

Bascetta, Cynthia, Director, Veterans’ Health and Benefits Issues, General

Accounting Office, accompanied by Steven Caldwell, Assistant Director,

Defense Capabilities and Management Issues, General Accounting Office .... 6

Prepared statement of Ms. Bascetta ............................................................... 82

Chu, David S.C., Under Secretary of Defense, Personnel and Readiness, Department of Defense ............................................................................................. 45

Prepared statement of Dr. Chu ....................................................................... 121

Everett, Annie, Acting Regional Administrator for the National Capital Region, General Services Administration ............................................................... 52

Prepared statement of Ms. Everett ................................................................. 139

Kasprisin, Kenneth S., Associate Director, Readiness, Response and Recovery

Division, Federal Emergency Management Agency .......................................... 48

Prepared statement of Federal Emergency Management Agency ................ 144

Krueger, James, Executive Vice President, Chapter Services Network, American Red Cross ...................................................................................................... 49

Prepared statement of Mr. Krueger ................................................................ 133

Principi, Hon. Anthony J., Secretary, accompanied by Frances M. Murphy,

M.D., Deputy Under Secretary for Health; James J. Farsetta, Director,

VA New York/New Jersey Healthcare System, VISN 3; John J. Donnellan,

Jr., Director, VA New York Harbor Health Care System, Veterans’ Health

Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs ...................................... 19

Prepared statement of Secretary Principi ...................................................... 96

October 30, 2002 
Page

IV

MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Chart: ‘‘U.S. Government Organizations to Combat Terrorism,’’ compiled from

First Annual Report to the President and the Congress of the Advisory

Panel to Assess Domestic Response Capabilities for Terrorism involving

Weapons of Mass Destruction, Assessing the Threat, Appendix 1 (December

15, 1999) with additional information from the Office of Management and

Budget, Annual Report to Congress on Combating Terrorism (August 2001) 179

Letter to Secretary Principi from Congressman Udall ......................................... 78

Statements:

American Federation of Government Employees ........................................... 147

The American Legion ....................................................................................... 151

Non Commissioned Officers Association ......................................................... 155

Paralyzed Veterans of America ....................................................................... 164

Veterans of Foreign Wars ................................................................................ 167

Vietnam Veterans of America ......................................................................... 171

Written committee questions and their responses:

Chairman Smith to Department of Defense ................................................... 180

October 30, 2002 
(1)

VA’S ABILITY TO RESPOND TO DOD CONTINGENCIES AND NATIONAL EMERGENCIES

MONDAY, OCTOBER 15, 2001

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS, Washington, DC.

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 2 p.m., in room 334,

Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Christopher H. Smith (chairman of the committee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Smith, Buyer, Stearns, Evans, Filner,

Carson, Udall and Snyder.

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN SMITH

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. And good

afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It has been just over a month

since the September 11 attacks that have forever changed the

world that we live in. As our horror has turned to grief and then

mourning and now to action, it is appropriate for Congress to continue examining how the government can best prevent and, if that

fails, respond to future terrorist attacks.

Today we will examine the role performed by the Department of

Veterans Affairs in emergency preparedness and response in national crises and whether that role is in need of serious updating

and reform. In particular we will focus on the VA’s role during wartime national disaster or major terrorist attacks on U.S. Soil.

As most of you are aware, the Veterans Health Administration’s

fourth mission after the provision of health care to vets, medical

training and medical research, its fourth mission is to serve as a

backup health care provider to the Department of Defense in terms

of war or national emergency.

With more than 170 major health care facilities and hundreds of

outpatient clinics, the VA currently has dedicated health care professionals, bricks and mortar, if you will, to care for thousands of

service members in the event of massive casualties.

Today we will examine whether the VA’s current structure as

well as its ongoing transition to an outpatient-oriented medical system have implications or create new challenges in fulfilling the

Veterans Health Administration’s fourth mission.

Twenty years ago the VA had significant excess bed capacity.

Today the infrastructure is badly in need of repair, and I might

add that we have taken action in the House to begin addressing

this problem. Earlier this year the House approved legislation that

I authored, along with my good friend to my right Mr. Evans, H.R.

811, which would provide $550 million over 2 years to repair and

October 30, 2002 
2

to rehabilitate VA medical facilities. First-year funding of $300 million dollars has already been included in the House-approved budget. We continue to work with our friends on the Senate side to pass

this legislation so we can send to it the President for his signature.

Today’s hearing will also examine additional areas of emergency

and war preparedness and response where the VA has unique resources and responsibilities. With an overall annual budget in excess of $50 billion, and more than 220,000 Federal employees, the

Department of Veterans Affairs operates the largest integrated

health care system in the United States making it an essential

asset in responding to potential biological, chemical or radiological

attacks.

The VA has defined roles currently in both the national disaster

medical system and the Federal Response Plan, or FRP, in the

event of national emergencies. Among the specialized duties of the

VA are conducting and evaluating disaster and terrorist attack

simulation exercises, managing the Nation’s stockpile of pharmaceuticals for biological and chemical toxins, maintaining a rapid response team for radiological events, and training public and private

NDMS Medical Center personnel in responding to biological, chemical or radiological events.

As the credible threat of chemical, biological and radiological terrorism have crept into our national awareness, it has clearly become more apparent that our Nation needs to develop sufficient resources, we don’t have enough now, and sufficient responses to deal

with a major incident.

Currently there are, as we all know, a myriad of Federal departments and agencies each addressing different pieces of the puzzle,

but there is no real unified strategy. That is why I applaud President Bush’s decision to establish an Office of Homeland Defense

and Security. This committee looks forward to working with its

first Director Tom Ridge, particularly in these areas in which the

committee has jurisdiction, a former member of this committee who

used to sit just to my right here, sat right next to him.

It is absolutely clear that the VA can and must play a unique

role in preparing for any response to a chemical, biological or radiological attack in the coming weeks and months.

Today we do have more questions than we have answers, and

hopefully this begins a process of getting to those answers and then

responding adequately. For example, how do we respond if something happens? You know the—the September 11 horrific events

really show that there was some chaos. Everything did not go as

planned, and had there been large numbers of victims rather than

large numbers of fatalities, the system would have been overloaded

very, very quickly.

There are no authoritative answers to some of the questions that

we ask. In many instances we have no cures or treatments and no

methods of detection and diagnosis, and detection is one area that

I am most concerned about. Why do we have to wait until some of

the symptoms begin to manifest themselves if there is a way of getting to the bottom of it immediately through better detection? We

need to have these capabilities not only fully researched, but also

deployed as quickly as possible.

October 30, 2002 
3

I am today proposing and will shortly be introducing some new

legislation creating four national medical preparedness centers, two

for dealing with chemical and biological threats, and two for dealing with radiological threats, centers of excellence. These NMPCs

would be run by the Department of Veterans Affairs in coordination with the Department of Defense, Health and Human Services,

Energy, FEMA, CDC, NIH and other agencies and organizations

with expertise in developing diagnoses, treatments, and responses

to those terrible dangers.

The missions of these centers would be to research and develop

methods of detection, diagnosis, vaccination, protection and treatment for these terrible threats such as anthrax and smallpox.

These centers would serve both as direct research centers as well

as coordinating centers for ongoing and new research at other government agencies and research facilities.

There is already ample precedent and experience within the VA

for providing them with this new mission. Through their extensive

medical research programs, the VA has expertise in diagnosing and

treating viral diseases with devastating health consequences, such

as HIV and hepatitis C. Furthermore, the VA currently operates

two war-related illness centers tasked with developing specialized

treatment for those injuries and illness that are particular to wartime. In essence, these new centers would similarly study those illnesses and injuries most likely to come from a terrorist attack

using a weapon of mass destruction.

Under my proposal the VA would be given new and a separate

appropriation to develop and operate these national medical preparedness centers. I would hope that all of our witnesses today

would comment on this, or at least take back the idea and provide

comments for the record.

Finally, I just wanted to say from my visit to the VA last month

that I was privileged to join Secretary Principi in New York as we

went around to the different VA centers that had responded and

met many of the personnel, some of whom had lost loved ones in

the World Trade Center. We were greatly—and I say we because

we both came back, as did Pat Ryan, our Staff Director and general

counsel—with the can-do attitude, the professionalism and the

sense that the VA was there, and it was going to do everything humanly possible to mitigate the agony and the ugliness of this terrible event. And I hope as we move forward and that the VA will

play even more of a role, because it certainly has a great deal of

expertise to share.

[The prepared statement of Chairman Smith appears on p. 65.]

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Evans, do you have any opening comments?

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LANE EVANS, RANKING

DEMOCRATIC MEMBER, COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS

Mr. EVANS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to speak today. I want to thank so many Members, not that

many here today, but the ones that are here today for giving up

their Monday before we go back into session. I want to thank you,

Mr. Chairman.

I some time ago went to the Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg, at that time I guess it was called Stalingrad, and entered and

October 30, 2002 
4

saw everyone wearing these little combat victory pins. And I asked

our tour guide what was the significance of that? How is it that almost everyone had been given this medal? And he replied, Mr.

Congressman, in the Soviet Union during World War II everybody

was a veteran.

That is probably what we are going to be faced with in the near

future, people that have not been in the Armed Forces before,

never been hit by any kind of terrorist attack. We as a Nation have

not suffered that kind of attack on a widespread basis. But we are

all going to be in this together, and it seems to me that we have

to be prepared for the worst, and that is what we are looking at

today. Since September 11 a day doesn’t go past when we aren’t

reminded of those cowardly acts and their tragic consequences.

These events have changed our world and our lives. Today our Nation is at war against terrorism. Around the globe our men and

women in uniform are in harm’s way. On the home front we are

still responding to emergencies, created by the attack of terrorists.

By law, the VA provides contingency medical care to our Armed

Forces during the time of war or other national emergencies. In addition, VA has important Federal Response Plan Emergency Function responsibilities.

Since being tasked with those important responsibilities the VA

has changed, in some respects dramatically. VA health care, for example, today is outpatient care oriented while the number of VA

inpatient beds has declined dramatically in recent years. Is the VA

fully capable and ready to fulfill the emergency missions it has

been tasked with over the years? Today our committee will seek

the answer to these questions and address other issues.

Mr. Chairman, I thank Tony Principi for joining us. His testimony before us will be very instructive, I believe, in what we have

to do here to correct many of the discrepancies between our mission

tasks and actual realty.

So I appreciate you holding this hearing today and yield back.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

[The prepared statement of Congressman Evans appears on p.

72.]

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Snyder. Ms. Carson.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JULIA CARSON

Ms. CARSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to welcome the distinguished members of the panel.

And, Mr. Chairman, today I will ask questions of the panel members to determine if the national response plans that involve the

Department of Veterans Affairs have been coordinated at all necessary levels and reflect current abilities and needs requirements.

All too often an agency’s crisis action plans will sit on a shelf and

gather dust until they are needed. They can become out-of-sight,

out-of-mind abstractions. When we dust these plans off, we discover that they are a generation behind the times, calling for a

horse-and-buggy response to a high-tech age.

We may find, for example, they call for computer support, but

has the nature of that support changed over the years, or is that

need now obsolete? We may explore and find that an unanticipated

incapability has sprung up, sometimes due to hardware software

October 30, 2002 
5

requirements that differ between the primary agency and support

agencies for required functions.

Every major Federal agency has an office of emergency preparedness or emergency coordination. The challenge is unusual. They

struggle to be heard when their expertise is not needed, but when

their expertise is called upon, their days become quite long. These

people need to be the most proactive people in the agency, and they

must really think out of the box. The simple fact is that preparedness will not occur if limited to the walls of a disaster preparedness

office. It must touch all parts of the organization.

The custodians of the emergency plan must not only be aware of

changes in the capabilities of the tasked Federal agency, they must

coordinate those changes outside of the agency to keep pace with

the changing times. For example, the VA was able to provide an

estimated 17,311 beds for contingency use in 1994. Today the maximum number of contingency beds available from the VA is only

7,574, almost 10,000, fewer beds. How does this change impact our

national capability to respond under Public Law 97–174?

When we review the Federal Response Plan, we find that a myriad of Federal resources may be called upon in response to a crisis.

How do we determine if the agencies will be able to work together?

Have capabilities changed with time?

One solution is coordinated exercises. This goes beyond the desktop review of plans. Agencies periodically buy new equipment, integrate functions or simply contract out major portions of their mission. Does anyone oversee this function?

A useful example under emergency support function number 3 of

the Federal Response Plan, the VA is to provide engineers to support the Public Works and Engineering Annex of the Federal Response Plan. Does anybody know how many engineers the VA can

provide? Have we contracted out this function and not noticed this

emergency mission, or does the primary action agency for this ESF,

the Army Corps of Engineers, no longer need VA engineering assistance? If so, why do we have a current Federal Response Plan

that lists that requirement?

Mr. Chairman, it is very important to assure that the VA is

ready to undertake all of its missions. The costs of missing a key

action can have great consequences.

And I want to welcome the Secretary of the VA, Mr. Principi,

who has done a yeoman’s job in the short time that he has been

head of the Department of Veterans Affairs. I was blessed to have

him in my district. He dedicated a home for homeless veterans. He

is very sincere in his work on behalf of the veterans of America,

and I want to thank him very much for his good work.

And, Mr. Chairman, I yield black the balance.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

I would like to now recognize and invite to the witness table our

first panel. That includes Cynthia Bascetta, who is the Director of

Veterans’ Health and Benefits Issues from the General Accounting

Office. Ms. Bascetta is accompanied by Mr. Steven Caldwell, the

Assistant Director For the Defense Capabilities and Management

Issues, also from the GAO.

Mr. Udall, did you have an opening comment?

Mr. UDALL. I am fine. Thank you.

October 30, 2002 
6

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Bascetta, if you could proceed.

STATEMENT OF CYNTHIA BASCETTA, DIRECTOR, VETERANS’

HEALTH AND BENEFITS ISSUES, GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE, ACCOMPANIED BY STEVEN CALDWELL, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, DEFENSE CAPABILITIES AND MANAGEMENT

ISSUES, GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE

Ms. BASCETTA. Thank you. Mr. Chairman and members of the

Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss with you today

the impact of the September 11 events on VA’s future role in homeland security.

With me today is my colleague Steve Caldwell, from GAO’s defense capabilities and management team. Last week many of us attended memorial services for victims of the attacks on the World

Trade Center and the Pentagon, and we learned of several anthrax

cases in three States and now in Senator Daschle’s office. These

are gripping reminders that constant vigilance will be necessary to

blunt the threat and consequences of terrorism at home.

Today I would like to first recap VA’s current role in emergency

preparedness and then discuss its potential capabilities as the Nation shores up our homeland security.

As you know, besides wartime backup of our military health care

system, VA has made important contributions to assist other agencies during natural disasters and acts of terrorism. First, VA jointly administers the National Disaster Medical System to enhance

the health and medical response capabilities of State and local responders if they are overwhelmed. In the immediate aftermath of

the September 11 attacks, VA hospitals in New York, Washington,

Baltimore, and Pennsylvania were ready to handle casualties. And

in prior emergencies, VA deployed more than 1,000 medical personnel and provided medical supplies and equipment as well as the

use of its facilities.

Second, VA has conducted many disaster response simulation exercises to practice the coordinated intergovernmental response to

scenarios including weapons of mass destruction attacks. VA has a

good track record of evaluating its participation in these exercises

and in particular developing lessons learned to improve interagency coordination.

Third, VA supports the Nation’s stockpiles of pharmaceuticals

and medical supplies. For HHS’s Office of Emergency Preparedness

and for CDC, which have lead responsibilities for the stockpiles,

VA purchases stockpile items and manages contracts for the storage, rotation, security, and transportation of these items. Inventory

from these supplies can be delivered anywhere in the Nation on

very short notice. Our work this year shows significant improvement to increase accountability and reduce inventory discrepancies

that we had noted 2 years ago. Nonetheless we recommend additional steps to further tighten the stockpile security.

Mr. Chairman, you also asked us to think about VA’s fourth

healthcare mission post-September 11. We are all familiar with its

substantial medical infrastructure of 163 hospitals and more than

800 outpatient clinics strategically located throughout the United

States. In addition, VA runs the largest pharmaceutical and medical supply procurement system in the world. And especially relOctober 30, 2002 
7

evant today, VA operates a network of 140 treatment programs for

post-traumatic stress disorder and is recognized as the leading expert on PTSD diagnosis and treatment.

Other assets include well-established relationships with 85 percent of the Nation’s medical schools and graduate medical education slots in disciplines associated with preparedness for mass

casualty attacks.

1998’s Presidential report to the Congress on Federal preparedness noted that VA’s emergency plans were well integrated into the

plans of most local communities, but important deficiencies included the lack of capability in the VA system as well as in the private sector to handle mass casualties, especially these resulting

from bioterrorism and the lack of decontamination equipment.

In our view, VA has significant capabilities that have potential

applicability in an era of heightened homeland security. At the

same time it is clear that some of these capabilities would need to

be strengthened. How best to employ and enhance this potential

should be an explicit part of the larger effort currently under way

to develop a national homeland security strategy. This broad strategy will require partnership with the Congress, the executive

branch, State and local governments, and the private sector to

maximize the effective alignment of resources with strategic goals.

We believe that expanding VA’s role may be deemed beneficial,

and that an expeditious analysis of the potential impact on the

Agency’s primary health care missions, the resource implications

for its budget, and the merits of enhancing its capabilities relative

to other Federal alternatives would help determine how VA can

best serve the Nation’s homeland security interests.

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my remarks, and we would be

happy to answer any questions you or the committee members may

have.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much for your testimony and for

your ongoing work.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Bascetta appears on p. 82.]

The CHAIRMAN. I have noted and I have read, as have many of

the members of our committee and the subcommittees, your

previous comments that have been made with remarks to the lack

of proper management for the chemical—for the pharmaceutical

stockpiling as have you pointed out in the past. I mean, it looks

like it was a mess. It was chaotic. There was undercounting. There

were expiration dates that were not adhered to. And today in your

testimony you seem to indicate that things have improved

substantially.

Secretary Principi in his statement later makes note of 12 recommendations that his senior-level working group, in-agency working group, have come up with, and one of them does have to do

with the issue of inventories of equipment and pharmaceuticals not

being adequate.

Now, given—and you pointed out in your testimony I think it was like about $160 million over 3 years that have—through CDC

and other agencies—have been spent on acquiring or procuring

these pharmaceuticals and other items. What is your sense as to

the adequacy or inadequacy? Can you assess these on the expiration issue, which I was intrigued about in one of your earlier reOctober 30, 2002 
8

ports that there was an attempt being made to see if there could

be an extension of what the expiration date may be; that it was

still a valid and potent antibiotic, for example, but just simply—it

ran out, the date ran out.

Ms. BASCETTA. I can try to explain our views at this point.

First of all, we were very happy to note in our report that was

issued in May of this year that no expired items were found in the

current inventories. So that was a very substantial improvement

over our work that was released in October of 1999.

One of the recommendations that we did make in May was with

regard to a problem with temperature control, and I believe one of

the facility recommendations related to CDC and HHS making sure

that they had contacted the FDA to assure that the potency of the

antibiotics that were stored in those extensive temperatures would

not have been adversely affected. I understand from the agencies’

comments, both CDC, HHS and VA, that they are acting to comply

with those recommendations.

But, overall, the recommendations that we made recently have

directed the CDC and HHS, not the VA, except in one case where

we recommend that, again, at one facility, some of the personnel

weren’t familiar enough with the operating plans, and we suggested that CDC and HHS assure that they have the appropriate

training.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you, GAO states that the VA operates as a support rather than command agency under the umbrella

of several Federal policies and contingency plans for combatting

terrorism. Do you believe that that concept needs to be rethought?

Should they be a lead agency?

Ms. BASCETTA. Mr. Chairman, we haven’t done the kind of work

that would allow me to make a recommendation on that. But I—

I think that under the circumstances, everything should be on the

table. We would certainly hope that this kind of discussion would

be taking place in the new Office of Homeland Security.

There is—there are funding mechanisms in place to transfer

money to VA. As you know, they don’t have any direct appropriations themselves for weapons of mass destruction. I think what is

compelling is that given the—not on the bricks and mortar, the

personnel and supplies that we have in place, but also the—the

network that they have, that could be tapped into for communications is a very important asset not to overlook.

We also have—through our work we also reviewed a draft budget

from 1998 that actually made some rather modest budget proposals

that would greatly enhance the Department’s ability to play a role

in Federal preparedness. The budget was $60 million over 5 years,

which would barely show up in the 50 billion. Thirty-eight million

of it, interestingly, was for decontamination in VA’s own facilities.

So with rather modest sums, it appears that VA could play an enhanced support role at least. I don’t—I don’t know about extending

that to a lead role.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how many facilities there are in the

Natural Disaster Medical System, and since you mention decontamination, I know that Dr. Sue Bailey will be testifying later,

pointed out that decontamination facilities at all hospitals, that is

October 30, 2002 
9

a recommendation she is making, but it appears that we don’t have

it.

Do we have any sense as to how many VA hospitals have such

capabilities and how many do not?

Ms. BASCETTA. I don’t have those numbers. I know they are very

limited. Maybe a handful.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask one final question.

You point out, as we all know so well on this committee, that the

VA has incredible—a wealth of health care assets. And just for the

record, as you say in your testimony, over and above the actual

provisions of health care, the Agency has well-established relationships with 85 percent of the Nation’s medical schools. More than

half of the Nation’s medical students trained there. Nearly all medical residents receive some of their training at the VA. If in your

concluding observations, in talking about the analysis of potential

impact on the health care mission, since we really are at a pivot

point, and the VA has this wealth, it seems to me to be a go-to

agency for trying to mitigate these problems that we are facing

with regards to terrorist attacks and the potential response and the

like.

Have you done any analysis about the—the impact on the budget

and whether or not the capacity of the VA is up to snuff with regards to what we are looking at?

Ms. BASCETTA. Well, if you are talking about hospital capacity to

take—capacities in a mass casualty situation, we haven’t done extensive work in the VA, in the VA area, but our health care team

has looked at the capacity of the entire hospital system, VA as well

as private hospitals, and they don’t appear to have the capacity to

handle mass casualties.

But, for other issues like graduate medical education where you

are in a preventative mode, they could certainly be a tremendous

facilitator to training physicians, either emergency room physicians

or internal medicine physicians who haven’t seen anthrax, plague,

smallpox, and they could facilitate a learning curve so that new

hospital—new physicians and physicians who need retraining could

get the knowledge that they need.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Mr. Evans.

Mr. EVANS. In your written statement you list a number of response simulation exercises that the VA has hosted or participated

in and that have a terrorist-related event or a weapon of mass destruction as their central theme to elicit a medical response from

the VA. To what detail are these exercises played out? Do they, for

example, actually move casualties in addition to providing treatment? How far do they go beyond a tabletop type of exercise?

Ms. BASCETTA. That is a very good question. I am going to ask

Mr. Caldwell to answer that. But let me say in the way of preface

that our understanding is that the exercises overall have greatly

improved both in their frequency and in their realism in the recent

past, and part of this is because of the Congressional mandate in

1999 to do no-notice field exercises, which also add to the realism.

But, Steve, if you could elaborate.

Mr. CALDWELL. Yes, sir.

We have observed a number of interagency counterterrorism exercises over the years, and our focus has generally been on the

October 30, 2002 
10

interagency and intergovernmental nature of those. We focus more

on the lead agency than the VA, but we have observed some and

read the after-action reports of several others that VA was the

prominent sponsor of.

I think that several of these exercises did incorporate a lot of the

characteristics we would want in a realistic exercise in that they

were field exercises that actually did move patients to remote facilities using DOD’s air transportation system. These exercises were

interagency exercises where VA interacted with the other lead national agencies as well as the other support agencies. These exercises were also intergovernmental exercises involving State and

local facilities, including private facilities, and these also included

some aspects of crisis management. But, as we understand, VA’s

role is more in the consequence management side of treating victims with health care, and so that is where the emphasis of these

have been.

Just to sum that up real quick, I would state that VA has done

a pretty good job in these exercises and taking—they are quite expensive and big things to manage, but they have done a pretty

good job in that, sir.

Mr. EVANS. Has any exercise simultaneously exercised the National Disaster Medical System with both domestic casualties and

moderate numbers of returning military casualties?

Mr. CALDWELL. I am not aware of any of those, sir.

Mr. EVANS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Evans.

The Chairman of the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee

Mr. Buyer.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEPHEN E. BUYER

Mr. BUYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to follow up, Mr. Caldwell. As you discussed these exercises, did the VA only do a self-evaluation?

Mr. CALDWELL. VA does do evaluations on their own behavior,

and some of them at the macro and some at the micro level. An

example of those at the micro level would be an evaluation done

in radiological exercises where they evaluate their medical emergency radiological response team. So they look at that, actually

their own team, how long it took to deploy, where those people

trained, did they know how their counterparts worked.

At the more macro level, VA has also done evaluations of its role,

and I think in contrast to some of the other agencies that we have

looked at, their evaluations do include some discussions of the—

their interactions with the other lead agencies.

Mr. BUYER. So the answer to the question is no? I asked whether

or not.

Mr. CALDWELL. I would say that they do.

Mr. BUYER. It is only self-evaluated?

Mr. CALDWELL. Yes.

Mr. BUYER. So there is no outside evaluation?

Mr. CALDWELL. No.

Mr. BUYER. Let me ask this: How realistic do you think the exercises were?

October 30, 2002 
11

Mr. CALDWELL. The ones that were field exercises where they are

actually moving patients is quite good. Now, we haven’t personally

observed those, but read the evaluations of those type. That would

actually have patients that would be irradiated, set up decontamination, direct the patients through these, track the treatment,

and then move them as necessary and actually physically move the

patients.

Mr. BUYER. Let me ask this: Since the VA is not on the front line

of this, they are in sort of the alternative, and in your written testimony you said the VA had allocated 5,500 beds for DOD casualties,

would—if, in fact, we had to use those 5,500 beds, is the VA adequately staffed to handle casualties of that magnitude right now?

Ms. BASCETTA. We have not done an evaluation that would allow

us to come up with a definitive answer to that question, but I can

tell you that we had concerns about this in 1992 before the Gulf

War, and some of the concerns back then I know have been ameliorated. Back then, for example, the bed estimates were based on authorized beds. Now they are based on operating beds, but, nonetheless, they are still estimates and they are generated for planning

purposes.

Our understanding is that they are goals, commitments that the

bed reporting exercises that they routinely go through with DOD

are exercises, but in terms of knowing whether or not those resources could be effectively mobilized, we are not sure.

Mr. BUYER. You know, as the VA has been changing and reshaping how it provided medical services more towards outpatient and

less inpatient, closing certain wards, closing beds, tell me how do

you think that whole metamorphosis that is occurring right now

plays with this plan of the VA to step in and help out with regard

to a national disaster? I mean, are we kind of caught here in two

things at once?

Ms. BASCETTA. Well, that is a very good question. You probably

are aware of their CARES initiative to realign their capital assets.

I know that part of the job of the contractors in undertaking that

process was to consider all missions of the VA, including their

backup mission both to the Department of Defense and to civilian

hospitals in the event of an emergency. But, frankly, I don’t think

it got too much attention because it—it simply wasn’t on everyone’s

radar screen the way it is now.

We need to take a very hard look at the capacity in the hospitals

as well as in the outpatient clinics. One of the—you know, the hospital capacity would clearly be needed for people who are acutely

ill. One of the problems that we would undoubtedly be facing is

that if people are ill with a contagious disease like smallpox, I don’t

think that anyone is prepared to have the kinds of isolation facilities that we might need, including the VA.

The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. EVANS. I think it is also important to remember in the Persian Gulf we had sometimes a double count of the VA doctors who

belonged in the Reserve units. So we need to get not only the numbers, but to make sure that we look beyond the numbers in terms

of seeing if there isn’t a double count of those individuals, the significant impact on the local community of a lot of skilled doctors

that are not available.

October 30, 2002 
12

Ms. BASCETTA. That is correct. We had noticed both in the

NDMS participating hospitals and the VA back in 1992 they were

not as aware as they should have been of the qualifications and the

availability of the reservists, but I understand that they have been

working on that.

Mr. BUYER. Mr. Evans, I was only asking the question from a

macro sense. If we have got a systems analytical approach going

right here, if the VA is to be the backup, or not necessarily a

backup, if the President turns to the VA and says, we have a disaster of such proportion that the VA needs to step in and assist,

while at the same time you know we are reshaping how we provide

medical care in the VA, we need a great deal of coordination integration with how we think about a new plan. That is the only reason I was looking at that.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Buyer.

The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member of the Oversight Subcommittee Ms. Carson.

Ms. CARSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I have

one quick question. That is, do you know if any of the nonmedical

taskings of the VA under the Federal Response Plan are also exercised engineering support, mass care, resources and to what

degree?

Ms. BASCETTA. No, I don’t. That is an excellent question. The

Federal Response Plan has a number of emergency support functions. Public Works and engineering, as you pointed out, is one.

The two that—the two other that VA plays a role in are a provision

of mass care and, of course, health and medical services, which is

the subject of our statement.

Ms. CARSON. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Florida Mr. Stearns.

Mr. STEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just ask unanimous

consent that my opening statement be put in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection.

[The prepared statement of Congressman Stearns appears on p.

79.]

Mr. STEARNS. I was going to mention what a laudable role the

Department of Veterans Affairs did after the September 11 attack

deploying personnel from burn nurses to post-traumatic stress disorder counselors within hours of the World Trade Center airplane

crash, and that further the VA carries outs essential disaster simulations and maintains pharmaceutical and medical supply inventories for rapid distribution. And I guess all of this—those emergency response roles fall under the VA’s fourth health care mission,

if I understand it correctly.

And my question goes to this—relates to this Public Law 97–174

where the VA served as a health care backup for DOD, and secondarily communities in homeland security efforts. As I mentioned,

this is a fourth mission of the VA, and I don’t think a lot of us

knew that. In the event that these efforts need to be employed on

a continuing basis, Ms. Bascetta, do you believe the VA would still

be able to meet its first mission, which, of course, is a treatment

of veterans?

October 30, 2002 
13

And perhaps this has been asked, but I would like to reiterate

and hear from you what areas perhaps are compromised if you

have a very strong, extended long mission for the fourth mission,

and the first mission of the VA would be compromised?

Ms. BASCETTA. I wish I had a good answer to your question. Of

course, the ability to respond for the VA and the entire hospital

system, which is also experiencing less and less excess capacity, is

a function of how severe the casualties might be. We can all imagine limits within which we could cope.

You are right that VA has, in one of its directives, a mission to

stand in for civilian backup in the event of a—an attack on U.S.

Soil of catastrophic proportions, and they have plans to do things

like discharge all veterans who can be discharged, and they are

supposed to do periodic reviews of how well that system is working

or how effectively they could actually make a determination as to

who could be discharged. And, of course, they would also postpone

any elective procedures. But beyond that I can’t—I can’t tell you

what the implications or what the repercussions could be on the

first mission.

Mr. STEARNS. So at this point if you were heavily involved with

a fourth mission, and providing, as I mentioned earlier, deploying

personnel from burn nurses to post-traumatic stress disorder counselors, then are you saying today that the first mission would not

be affected, or would be? Just yes or no. The first mission would

be affected?

Ms. BASCETTA. It could potentially be affected depending on the

degree of the casualties.

Mr. STEARNS. Do you think it is important for you to work out

some type of matrix to see the trade-offs on your missions in the

event that we had a very severe type of crisis, perhaps in a subway, or chemical, biological warfare where you would shift your

mission, how it would work, and what effect would it have, for example, on the veterans in any one of our States? And would that

be necessary to do on an emergency supplemental?

And so I think some kind of—analysis on a what-if scenario

would be helpful for you folks.

Ms. BASCETTA. I would agree, and I would hope that part of the

mission of the agencies that are charged with homeland security

would be looking at the role of the VA as opposed to other alternatives, that part of what would be weighed in would be the implications on that first mission, how we could compensate in cases

where there might be a temporary or a more prolonged adverse

impact.

Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, it might be helpful for her to come

back in writing with more specifics, what would happen to the mission in the event of some—something like this and to try and give

us an idea of whether we should have legislation, or whether it is

more services, or just maybe some kind of anticipation of what this

committee could do to help her, help the VA.

The CHAIRMAN. We intend on asking the GAO to formally undertake such an analysis. In Ms. Bascetta’s concluding remarks she

makes that point that there needs to be more analysis in that area.

The point is made. As a matter of fact, it was made. It is going to

be made in testimony presented by the American Legion that the

October 30, 2002 
14

United States will not engage in any major global or regional conflict during this time, in the strategic plan, 2001 to 2006.

The assumption is we are not at war. We are at war, and we

have to change our mentality. Everything is pre-September 11 and

post-September 11, and that—indeed the four missions, the main

missions of the VA, and one of our VSOs even says this local home

security really constitutes a de facto fifth mission because it is so

large and filled with an enormous responsibility for the VA to

respond.

So I think the gentleman’s point is well taken. We will compose—consider yourself asked, if you are not already doing it. But

we will be asking more formally to really scope out these needs. I

thank the gentleman for raising that.

Mr. BUYER. Will the gentleman yield to me? I think Mr. Stearns has asked the—the $1 million question here, and that is—the answer, even if you were to provide a written answer today, is not

going to be the answer that is going to help us 3 weeks or even

5 months from now, because we don’t all know how this—the

Homeland Defense, how this Agency is going to work, how it is

going to interface with Secretary Principi and the VA. And we have

to think outside of the box.

I think Mr. Stearn’s point here is our first mission, we have to

make sure those whom have served this Nation in other great

causes of this country get taken care of; that we are not that demand agency, but that support agency. So I want to compliment Mr. Stearns for asking the $1 million

question, but it is one that we have to be very careful about. If we

demand a specific answer today, it is not going to be the one that

is helpful.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BOB FILNER

Mr. FILNER. I think he has asked the $1 million question, but the real issue is the $1 billion question; that is, the resources. How are

we going to do both the new demands and the previous demands?

We are going to have to get additional resources. We are going

to talk to the Secretary when he gets onto the panel, but I am sure

he is ready for this. This Congress is going to have to deal with

upgrading the amount of resources we have given for missions one,

two and three. They are $800 million or more behind now. If the

VA is going to take on additional responsibilities, we are going to

have to be prepared to give those resources. And I think that part

of this question you asked, Mr. Stearns. It is a resource question.

How much more money are we going to have to provide to meet

the initial or the basic mission in this new emergency

circumstance?

Mr. STEARNS. And they should be prepared to tell us in sort of

incrementally at least.

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman, and I now yield to Dr.

Snyder, the gentleman from Arkansas.

Dr. SNYDER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to pursue a

couple of questions about what you called the fourth mission, this

local response to events. I recall—it has been over 25 years ago,

back before I was a doctor, back when I was an orderly. People

have done these kind of exercises for years. I think they have gotOctober 30, 2002 
15

ten better, more sophisticated. But it was a very proud day for me,

because I was put out on the street and told, don’t let any traffic

come in here, no exceptions. And I turned away the hospital administrator, who was trying to get to the normal parking place

close to the hospital. So I was proud of myself. I became a folk hero

in the hospital.

But on page 3 of your report, you give a figure of $7.9 million

and say that less than half of 1 percent of the VA budget goes to

this fourth mission, this local medical response. I would think that

is a hard number to calculate. I mean, how do you—for example,

if there is a trauma, grand rounds on femur fractures, acute femur

fractures, would that be counted as part of your local medical response even though it deals with the kind of injury that you may

get in a mass response? How do you—what was included in 7.9

million?

Then the second part of the question. Then you put a footnote

down at the bottom that says that HHS gave 62 million, which

really dwarfs the half of 1 percent. So now we are getting whatever

62 plus 8 is. $74 million. I am not sure what is the appropriate

amount of money in a category that is a bit hard to quantify.

Ms. BASCETTA. The 7.6 million, 7.9 million, I believe, for this

year, represents the staffing essentially for the EMSHG, the Emergency Management Strategic Health Group. It does not include

moneys that are provided to the VA, that—the money in the footnote, for example, that pays for the stockpiled items that are purchased through their national acquisition center for the national

pharmaceutical stockpile. And it also does not include the much

small number, I believe it is 1.9 million, for the pharmaceutical

caches that VA manages to support, the national medical response

teams which are specialized teams under the National Medical Disaster System.

So that number is—is for the—the emergency management expertise, if you will, that is within the Department that can be deployed to assist others, but it doesn’t reflect the costs that they

could incur if they actually have—if they took casualties, of course,

or if they deployed their staff for long periods of time.

Dr. SNYDER. We have hospitals in our communities, in our States

or in our districts that have been through emergency situations. In

Arkansas, our most common natural disaster is tornadoes, and

twice in my 41⁄2 years here, half my counties have been declared

Federal disaster areas for tornadoes, including deaths both times.

Is it fair to say that in the normal sequence of a natural disaster,

that a lot of communities deal with, that the VA hospitals do not

have occasion to have their resources challenged as much as the

private hospitals? Is that a fair statement, that generally when a

disaster occurs, most patients would be taken to the private network and would only then come over to the VA system if a veteran

specifically requested it, or if there was really an overload of the

system, which I wouldn’t think most disasters incur?

Ms. BASCETTA. I can’t say for sure, but they will take civilians

on an emergency basis, as a humanitarian action. But their role in

the NDMS is to—there are 50 VA hospitals that serve as Federal

coordinating centers, and their role is to do triage, to do some limOctober 30, 2002 
16

ited treatment, but basically to distribute victims of a disaster to

the civilian hospitals.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Doctor.

Tom Udall, the gentleman from New Mexico.

Mr. UDALL. No. I am not a doctor. Thank you very much Mr.

Chairman; I appreciate it.

I would also like to put in a letter that I directed to Secretary

Principi earlier in the year and a statement.

(See p. 78.)

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the statement and letter will

be part of the record.

Mr. UDALL. Ms. Bascetta, you mention in your GAO report here

that the Veterans Administration has this well-established relationship with 85 percent of the Nation’s medical schools, and according to the VA, more than half of the Nation’s medical students

and a third of all medical residents receive some of their training

at VA facilities.

I am wondering, from your perspective and your knowledge, do

you think the VA in playing this role is in a position to recommend

the kinds of training that are needed for medical doctors to respond

to things like bioterrorism, chemical attacks, nuclear attacks, those

kinds of things, which we really haven’t seen on any large scale

here?

Ms. BASCETTA. I wouldn’t be in a position to suggest that they

do that alone, but certainly with their colleagues in the medical

schools, at CDC and at HHS, in the Public Health Service, through

the American association of Medical Colleges and the American

Council for Graduate Medical Education, those bodies, I believe,

could come together to develop curriculum.

Mr. UDALL. Have you done any of your studies on the curriculum

now and whether they cover these kinds of areas, whether there is

a lack of training in specific areas?

Ms. BASCETTA. We have not. My public health colleagues on the

health care team at GAO did look at inadequacies and infrastructure in the public health system overall, and they noted that provider training does seem to be a problem. It varies across the country, but clearly, there are not enough physicians who have—who,

fortunately, have seen these kinds of diseases.

Mr. UDALL. Shifting subjects a little bit here, I have seen on the

nightly news about this antibiotic—that there is a run on because

of anthrax, and you talk in your report about the inventories and

the ability of the VA to move inventory and drugs around the

country.

Has the public’s response to some of these reports hurt the ability of the VA to respond, lowered these inventories in any way for

drugs like Cipro or some of these others that would be used for

anthrax?

Ms. BASCETTA. Those inventories would not be touched in the

run on ciprofloxacin, which is, I believe, in pharmacies, private

physicians writing prescriptions for private patients. But those

stockpiles are closely guarded. The—for the first time, the national

pharmaceutical stockpile, one of the 12-hour push packages, was

deployed to New York. But I don’t know whether any Cipro was

utilized from that stockpile.

October 30, 2002 
17

Mr. UDALL. And you would think the stockpile—from your

knowledge, the stockpile that is there for these kinds of drugs is

still intact and ready to be deployed?

Ms. BASCETTA. Absolutely.

Mr. UDALL. From your point of view, if the VA was tasked to

support both missions under Public Law 97–174, the contingency

support of DOD medical care and the Federal response plan, how

would VA support both and which should have priority?

Ms. BASCETTA. I should probably think about that one and answer you for the record. I believe that DOD contingency has priority over the Federal response plan responsibilities that they have,

and I wouldn’t want to comment on which should have priority. I

think, as the chairman has pointed out, our environment is so dramatically changed that those are the very kinds of questions that

probably need to be rethought, depending on what kinds of circumstances might befall us next.

Mr. UDALL. And that would be acceptable to me for you to respond to the record as to which, under current circumstances,

would have priority or not; and then we can look at the ‘‘shoulds’’

later on.

Thank you Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

[The prepared statement of Congressman Udall, with attachment, appears on p. 75.]

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Filner.

Mr. FILNER. Thank you very much. I did look at the written testimony, and I didn’t find anything on what I call the ‘‘billion dollar

question.’’ .

It seems to me obvious that the VA mission is going to expand,

but they are going to have less people to do this mission. I don’t

know if anybody asked you about the number of reservists, for example, who are part of the VA staff and will be called up. I think

this was a problem 10 years ago, and I will be asking the Secretary

about the consequences of a reduced staff.

The VA has an increased mission. And a number pops into my

head, and again I will ask the Secretary later, that the VA was

preparing its field people for an $800 million reduction somewhere

around that figure, I remember. So it seems obvious that we need

to have additional resources for the Veterans Administration. They

are going to have to continue their basic job. They are going to

have to expand their mission.

It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, to follow up Mr. Stearns’ question

about a letter to the GAO, I think we have to move quicker and

go up the ladder. We have a $40 billion supplemental that we approved. I am not sure that the VA has any of this.

We should request, Mr. Chairman—a billion sounds like a good

figure to start with. Since the VA is behind and they are going to

have increased responsibilities, it seems to me this committee

ought to make sure that the VA is part of the upcoming supplemental appropriations.

So I see Mr. Stearns. I will yield to you.

Mr. STEARNS. I just want to add on to what you are saying, that

if the GAO or the Secretary comes back to us and says that in the

event of this scenario, I would need X dollars, if they could do that

October 30, 2002 
18

quickly, then the chairman would know, and we can get this in one

of the emergency supplementals; as you point out, that is going to

be on the floor.

And we have a huge network of hospitals and nurses and doctors

who could help out.

Mr. FILNER. I think the answer is obvious. I don’t have the exact

number—although I bet the figure comes out around that billion

figure. And we ought to do it as soon as possible, because ‘‘the train

is moving,’’ as they say. Congress is making those decisions on how at least our $40 billion is going to be spent; and the President is coming along with

another supplemental. So it seems to me this committee ought to

speak up for the VA. We will have the Secretary on in a moment,

and I am sure he can tell us about what he thinks is an exact

number.

We ought to be taking the lead in doing what has to be done. We

cannot neglect the responsibilities for the emergency, and the VA

has incredible resources to deal with any that might occur. But we

have responsibilities to those who have served. And I think we can

do them both; I think we can handle them. It is a question of

prioritizing resources in such a way so we do.

Mr. Chairman, I hope that we speak up on behalf of our veterans. We will get a more precise reading on that from the next two

panels. But we ought to act so that the Congress hears what we

are saying before everybody makes up their minds, or have made

up their minds already about what they are going to get from that

supplemental appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the gentleman. And I want to thank our

very distinguished witnesses for their testimony, their insight; it is

ongoing and comprehensive.

And I should point out for the record, one of the reasons why I

am convening this hearing today is to get all of the information on

the table. Very often the VA is underheralded in the magnificent

job it does do, particularly in a crisis. As I said in my opening

statements, the Secretary and I traveled to New York and we met

with Jim Farsetta, who will be speaking soon, and the other people

who were part of the response—ready, willing and able. But the big

question was, did we provide sufficient resources, had it been a different type of scenario, which could happen in the future?

I think that is the big question that has to be asked now. And

you have helped us somewhat and we thank you. You fulfilled what

our request was, but we will be asking you much more as we go

forward because, again, there have been total changes since September 11.

Ms. BASCETTA. We understand and we are ready to help.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to ask our next panel, Panel 2. And

I want to thank Secretary Principi. Very often Secretaries, members of the Cabinet, insist on going first, but the Secretary insisted

on listening to GAO and the responses that the GAO would make

to the questions posed by the members of this committee. And I

want to thank him for that.

Our first witness will be Secretary Anthony Principi, a combat

decorated Vietnam veteran. Mr. Principi has worked on national

policy issues and has held several executive-level positions in FedOctober 30, 2002 
19

eral Government throughout his career. He chaired the Federal

Quality Institute in 1991 and was chairman of the Commission on

Service Members and Veterans Transition Assistance, established

by the Congress in 1996.

Mr. Principi served as Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs, VA’s

second highest executive position, from March 17 of 1989 to September 26, 1992, when he was named acting Secretary of Veterans

Affairs by President George Bush, 41.

Mr. FILNER. I think the Secretary is asking the Chairman to forget his re ́sume ́. The CHAIRMAN. We have a very, very distinguished member of

the Cabinet who has tremendous credentials, and I would proceed.

From 1984 to 1988, he served as the Republican Chief Counsel

and Staff Director of the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs. He

was—he has had many other jobs as well. He was—he is a 1967

graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis and first saw active duty aboard the destroyer USS Joseph P. Kennedy. He later

commanded a river patrol unit in Vietnam’s Makong Delta.

He earned his law degree from Seton Hall University in 1975.

And with that, we look forward to your testimony and just introduce the other members of your panel. We have Frances Murphy,

Deputy Under Secretary of Health for the Department of Veterans

Affairs; Jim Farsetta, who is the Director of the VA New York/New

Jersey Healthcare System, VISN 3; and John Donnellan, Jr., who

is the VA New York Harbor Health Care System Director as well.

And we are joined by Claude Allen, Deputy Secretary of U.S.

Health and Human Services. Thank you Mr. Allen.

STATEMENTS OF HON. ANTHONY J. PRINCIPI, SECRETARY, ACCOMPANIED BY FRANCES M. MURPHY, M.D., DEPUTY UNDER

SECRETARY FOR HEALTH; JAMES J. FARSETTA, DIRECTOR,

VA NEW YORK/NEW JERSEY HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, VISN 3;

JOHN J. DONNELLAN, JR., DIRECTOR, VA NEW YORK HARBOR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, VETERANS’ HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS; AND

HON. CLAUDE A. ALLEN, DEPUTY SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, please proceed.

STATEMENT OF HON. ANTHONY J. PRINCIPI

Secretary PRINCIPI. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Evans, and members of

the Committee. It is certainly an honor to appear before you this

afternoon to talk about a very, very critical issue. And I am with

the real experts today.

It is also a pleasure to be here with Deputy Secretary Allen. We

worked very, very closely with Secretary Thompson, and the Department of the Health and Human Services, in the leadership role

they have played in responding to this disaster.

I think if we are to succeed in responding to crises of this nature,

it will be due in no small part to the ability of agencies of government to work cooperatively together. And I believe that has been

the earmark of the current crisis that we have faced in New York,

as many of the members have mentioned, along with Ms. Bascetta.

October 30, 2002 
20

VA is a very, very large organization of government, with 1,200

sites around the country not only in large urban areas, but also in

rural areas totally under Federal control. I think that is a very,

very significant part.

All 215,000 employees—all 1,200 sites are under Federal control,

and with the closing of the Public Health Service hospitals and,

somewhat, the downsizing of the DOD direct health care system,

VA plays a very important role in supporting HHS and as a backup

to DOD in times of national emergency and certainly in the event

of casualties from conflicts abroad.

We have responded well in the past crisis and in the future are

prepared to provide assistance to the National Disaster Medical

System, to Director Ridge and the Office of Homeland Security, and

to the Department of Defense. I ordered reexamination of our plans

in anticipation of VA’s role in support of and in response to the current conflict.

The key issues are VA’s response to September 11, VA’s emergency response missions, VA’s challenges, and most importantly,

our response to those challenges.

Mr. Chairman, in response to the events of September 11, we activated VA’s Continuity of Operations Plan immediately following

the second impact into the World Trade Center. Alternate sites

were operational and key personnel were deployed within a few

hours. VISNs 3 and 5 activated their command centers in the

greater New York and DC areas, respectively—in New York, under

the leadership of Mr. Farsetta and Mr. Donnellan, VA cared for patients, managed emergency situations, heightened security, deployed staff, shared inventory and ensured continuous communication all very very close to Ground Zero. We are all grateful for their

leadership and the splendid job they did in assisting all New Yorkers in the aftermath of the terrorist act. We are now gearing up

for the emotional and traumatic impact likely in the weeks and

months ahead.

The Veterans Benefits Administration also responded with assistance to victims and family members of the victims of the attack

on the Pentagon and in New York. The National Cemetery Administration responded, as well, in caring for the families and, probably already, for burials, and honored requests for weekend burials

and extended hours.

Mr. Chairman, VA’s response to the September 11 attacks was

swift, orderly, and effective. Our plans worked well. We know that

improvements can be made, but everything went according to plan.

That response is consistent with VA’s history. We were there in

the wake of Hurricane Hugo and Hurricane Andrew. We were

there for the earthquakes in northern California. We were there for

the floods in the Midwest in 1993, and certainly played a very, very

important role in Houston during the recent devastating floods.

Caring for America’s veterans is and will always be our primary

mission. But in times of emergencies in this country, we are also

a national resource for all communities in America.

Mr. Chairman, my written statement lists several authorities

governing VA’s emergency mission, including our backup to the

Department of Defense, our partnership in the National Disaster

Medical System, and our support for the Public Health Service,

October 30, 2002 
21

stockpiles of antidotes and pharmaceuticals. VA works very closely

with HHS, with DOD, with FEMA and CDC to provide the health

and medical response following disasters, including terrorist incidents. We have significant medical assets available to treat

casualties.

VHA supports HHS’s Office of Emergency Preparedness in maintaining adequate stock piles of antidotes and other necessary pharmaceuticals nationwide. Four pharmaceutical caches are available

for immediate deployment with HHS’s National Medical Response

Team in the event of a chemical, biological, or radiological incident.

VA also procures, as was pointed out earlier, pharmaceuticals for

the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention National Pharmaceutical Stockpile Plan.

VA and DOD contingency plans for our medical support to the

military health care system are reviewed and updated annually.

Mr. Chairman, shortly after September 11, I formed an Emergency Preparedness Working Group at a very senior level, under

the chairmanship of Charles Battaglia, to assess our ability to

carry out our missions in case of a biological, chemical or radiological weapons attack. The group also examined our capacity to reconstitute our ability to meet our mission, if need be. The working

group identified challenges that I will summarize without detail,

but I would be more than happy to provide details to members and

staff after the hearing.

Our challenges include: meeting veterans’ health care needs and

treating mass casualties at the same time; responding to multi-scenario crises; training on decontamination procedures and on the diagnosis and treatment of injuries and illnesses resulting from

chemical or biological weapons; and meeting staffing needs in the

face of Reserve or National Guard mobilization, or when a crisis

prevents staff from reporting to work. In addition the concern

raised by Mr. Evans—counseling for post-traumatic stress for military personnel, veterans, their family, VA employees and civilians;

as well as addressing emergency operations command and control

and mobilizing personnel to relocation sites; exercises in training to

test our responses; and employee and veteran education on the realities of chemical and biological agents, including self-protection.

I have directed an immediate review of the working group’s recommendations and expect implementation of corrective actions

within 90 days.

Our emergency operations center will institute around-the-clock

coverage with secure data and voice communication links to keep

all of our systems functioning in the event of a crisis. Our preparedness assessment will help us develop emergency response

training and medical education materials to share with civilian

health professionals across America, especially with our affiliated

medical schools.

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Evans, members of the Committee, I can assure you we will take all necessary steps to ensure that VA can fulfill all of our missions. Our primary mission will always be to

America’s veterans. In any discussion of homeland defense, I want

to assure our Nation’s 25 million veterans that we will stand tall

with our Federal, State and local colleagues to protect them, their

families and their communities.

October 30, 2002 
22

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes my statement.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. Let me ask

you a couple of questions and then members of the panel, if you

would like to.

[The prepared statement of Secretary Principi appears on p. 96.]

The CHAIRMAN. My understanding is, Dr. Allen, you wanted to

present some testimony.

STATEMENT OF HON. CLAUDE A. ALLEN, DEPUTY SECRETARY,

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

Mr. ALLEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Congressman Evans and

members of the Committee. It is a pleasure to be here with you on

behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services and its

Office of Emergency Preparedness to discuss our Federal response

plan.

The terrible events of last month very clearly demonstrated that

our country can respond quickly, efficiently and effectively in the

wake of a national emergency. However, it is important that we

now accelerate our efforts to build a strong infrastructure for the

possibility of future terrorist attacks, particularly those that involve biological and chemical weapons.

If a disaster or disease outbreak reaches the kind of significant

magnitude that we witnessed on September 11, local resources will

be overwhelmed and the Federal Government will be required to

provide protective and responsive measures for the affected populations. This is why a Federal response is necessary and why we

must be prepared to move quickly in order to detect the problem

accurately, to control the epidemic spread and to treat the victims.

Under the leadership of Secretary Tommy Thompson, at HHS

our efforts are focused on improving the Nation’s public health surveillance network and preparedness response. As you know, Congress will appropriate $20 billion towards recovery efforts and preparedness measures. To ensure the safety and well-being of Americans here and abroad, the administration will request more than

$1.5 billion in new funds for bioterrorism preparedness at the Department of Health and Human Services. When combined with the

administration’s original request of $345 million, it would provide

a total of more than 1.8 billion in fiscal year 2002.

Secretary Thompson and I examined closely the current and future needs of the national pharmaceutical stockpile, and this new

funding will include $643 million dollars to expand the existing

stockpile. This would include adding to the eight push packs of

medicine and supplies that are stationed throughout the Nation so

that needed vaccines and general medical supplies will be ready for

distribution at a moment’s notice. The money would also be used

to provide enough anthrax antibiotics to treat 12 million people for

60 days, an increase from the current supply of 2 million people for

60 days.

We will also initiate additional procurements of smallpox vaccine. We will request funding to expedite the Food and Drug Administration’s work on bioterrorism vaccines, drug therapies, diagnostic tests, and consulting services. Training for State and local

distribution programs will also be funded, as well as packages to

build up State and local caches of pharmaceuticals.

October 30, 2002 
23

For States and localities to be prepared for possible bioterrorist

activities or incidents, it is necessary for us to provide additional

funding to develop and coordinate State and local emergency plans

and to increase the number of epidemiologists with our epidemiological intelligence service training from the Centers for Disease

Control that are assigned to each State.

Hospitals across the country will be our first line of response and

defense, and we have to make sure that they have the latest equipment and training in the event of an attack. Tying into hospital

preparedness is the importance of strengthening the coverage of

the health care network and the capacity of our metropolitan medical response systems for highly populated areas. To provide immediate and up-to-date information, the State and local lab capacities

across the country will have to be increased, and our ability to detect exposure to chemicals through blood and urine tests, or what

we call our ‘‘rapid toxic screens,’’ must be enhanced.

Another very important piece of bioterrorism preparedness is

protection of our food supply. We must add inspection, compliance

and lab staff, as well as improve information technology support in

the purchase of scientific equipment to ensure our food is safe.

Within minutes of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centers, HHS had activated the Department’s emergency operations

center, knowing that our Department, our National Disaster Medical System partners, including the Department of Veterans Affairs,

Department of Defense and the Federal Emergency Management

Agency might be called upon to assist New York in its response.

By the end of that painful morning, Secretary Thompson had declared a section 319 emergency under the Public Health Services

Act. He then ordered the activation of the entire EMS system, including notification of all of its 7,000 volunteer health workers and

2,000 hospitals. All of the resources we had in place allowed us to

be as prepared as we were on September 11.

We need to continue to be prepared, and in order to do this, we

must enhance the capabilities of our first responder services, such

as CDC’s laboratories, our disaster medical assistance teams, the

epidemiologic intelligence service and vital communication systems.

Security at our laboratories must also be given the highest priority.

The Department of Health and Human Services is committed to

assuring the health and medical care of its citizens. And we

provide—we are prepared to mobilize quickly the professionals required to respond to a disaster anywhere in the United States and

its territories, and to assist local medical response systems in dealing with extraordinary situations, including meeting the unique

challenges of responding to the health and medical effects of

terrorism.

The Departments of Veterans Affairs and Defense are central

partners in these efforts, and I want to thank both Secretary

Principi and Under Secretary Chu for their assistance. The Departments of Veterans Affairs and Defense share responsibility for definitive care activities, including managing a network of about

2,000 non-Federal hospitals to ensure that hospital beds can be

made available through a system of Federal coordinating centers.

The VA is partnering with the HHS Office of Emergency Preparedness on other activities, as well. The VA is one of the largest

October 30, 2002 
24

purchasers of pharmaceuticals and medical supplies, and capitalizing on this buying power, OPM and VA have entered into an agreement where the VA manages and stores the four national medical

response teams specialized pharmaceutical caches. VA also assists

us in the procurement of many of our supplies.

And the Department of Health and Human Services is committed

unequivocally to ensuring that the American people are protected

from bioterrorism whether through thwarting the spread of an epidemic disease or containing a chemical attack. We will be ready.

And, of course, we must sustain high vigilance, always looking

for ways to improve. Much has already been done and our fellow

citizens can be assured that the Federal Government has a plan in

place that, in a time of national crisis, can offer quick and effective

assistance to address emergency needs.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my prepared remarks, and I would

be pleased to answer any questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Dr. Allen.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Allen appears on p. 113.]

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Murphy.

Dr. MURPHY. I don’t have a prepared statement.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank you for being here and I know

you come prepared to answer any questions.

Let me make the point at the outset, Mr. Secretary, that clearly

the challenge that you face and your Department faces is to meet

this fourth mission adequately and in a comprehensive way without in any way doing harm, damage or weakening missions 1, 2,

and 3, which is the veterans’ health care itself, research and the

training of medical personnel.

But this fourth mission can’t be seen as an adjunct. It is a vital

part of the VA’s mission. And it seems to me that many in the government do not understand the vital role that the VA has, can and

hopefully will play in going forward, and I just wanted to ask you—

and I want to commend you for convening that Emergency Preparedness Working Group, that senior-level working group.

You make 12 very candid recommendations as to what needs to

be done, and I hope all members will look very carefully at those

12 recommendations. It points out that there is an inadequacy. And

I don’t think there is fault to be borne by any of the administrations, past or present; this has come up on us, I think, very, very

quickly. No one could have foreseen this is what we would be talking about in mid-October of the year 2001.

But you make the point that health care workers need to be

trained. There was a piece in the Washington Post on Sunday talking about how inadequately doctors are trained throughout the

country. There is a general lack of information, woeful lack of information with regards to biological attack and anthrax and all of

these other terrible threats.

You also point out that there is a need for decontamination; and

that has been pointed out in some of our other submissions that

we have gotten, and perhaps you might speak to how many of our

VAs actually have a decontamination capability.

Does Manhattan VA have it, for example? I don’t know, but it

is something—I will throw out a few questions and then ask you

to respond.

October 30, 2002 
25

The post-traumatic stress, Mr. Secretary, as you know—and you

have been a prominent proponent of, as I think every member of

this committee has been—the VA has written the book on posttraumatic stress disorder and has experts capable of lending considerable expertise and curing expertise to those who are now and

will soon suffer from post-traumatic stress—the firemen, for example, in New York and many others who have suffered so

immensely.

You and I have talked about how well the VA is positioned to

provide that expertise to these hurting individuals and you might

want to speak to that as well.

Let me ask a couple of other questions in regards to capacity and

especially, specifically, beds and the availability of beds. I read a

GAO report that—it was in 1992, Readiness of U.S. Contingency

Hospital Systems to Treat War Casualties; and a major faux pas

was made by that administration in miscounting the number of

available beds, counting those that had been authorized as opposed

to those that were operational. And I am just wondering now, in

2001, do we have a clear indication of how many beds are out there

should casualties begin to mount either on the domestic home front

or as a result of overseas.

Secretary PRINCIPI. Mr. Chairman, the task force did identify 12

major deficiencies that we need to correct. I believe it will take

roughly $250 million to correct those deficiencies—primarily training, protective equipment, decontamination equipment, pharmaceuticals for the caches to support local communities. So additional

resources would be required going forward.

With regard to the capacity issue, clearly the assumptions that

we worked with prior to September 11 have changed rather dramatically, and we need to consider the multi-scenario crises that

we could be faced with in this country, both at home and abroad,

and VA’s ability to respond to those crises.

Much has changed in the past decade in the delivery of health

care with regard to inpatient care, outpatient care, and how we can

best provide that care. But, clearly, bed capacity is one issue that

we have to be concerned about. We believe that we have 7,500 beds

available to DOD, to HHS, within 72 hours of a crisis.

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Murphy.

Dr. MURPHY. Those are staffed beds.

The CHAIRMAN. You mentioned 250 million. Is that a request

that has been made to Congress?

Secretary PRINCIPI. That request has not gone forward.

The CHAIRMAN. Will that go forward soon? Does that come out

of the 40 billion, or is that something that will be coming out of

a new appropriation?

Secretary PRINCIPI. I intend to make that request to the administration to correct the deficiencies that I believe we need to move

forward with.

The CHAIRMAN. Appreciate that.

You, in your testimony, point out there is a technical advisory

committee of both VA and non-VA experts that was established in

2000 to advise VA on weapons of mass destruction issues. What

they were supposed to come up with was both precautionary and

response measures at all VA facilities. And according to your testiOctober 30, 2002 
26

mony, that will be—the report will be forthcoming by the end of

2001.

Is there any preliminary indications from them? I mean, especially as we go through the budget process, that information, I

think would be vital and very timely in terms of our response.

Dr. MURPHY. We have some preliminary information from the

technical advisory committee, and actually their recommendations

were incorporated into the 12 recommendations that the Secretary

has already addressed. They are primarily related to training of

our VA staff, and then how VA would assist HHS in training the

NDMS hospitals to provide the appropriate pharmaceuticals in

case of a chemical or a biological warfare attack, and how our physicians should be trained to use those; and also the appropriate decontamination guidelines that VA would implement throughout our

health care system.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask if Congress were to assign the VA an

additional training responsibility associated with national emergency medical preparedness, would it have the potential to harm

the basic educational mission of the VA, or would it complement it

and why?

Dr. Murphy, I think it is probably for you.

Dr. MURPHY. Would you repeat the question?

The CHAIRMAN. If we were to add medical preparedness, especially post-9/11, would that add to or diminish from the current

training that goes on within the VA with regards to medical

training?

And Dr. Allen, you might want to respond to that as well.

Dr. MURPHY. The medical training that goes on in VA facilities

incorporates training in primary care and all of the specialties that

exist in medicine. We also train allied health care providers. Much

of that training is relevant to the response to an emergency situation. We need to augment that training with specific training that

is related to weapons of mass destruction.

VA has already begun to implement training for weapons of mass

destruction. We have offered that training in the past, but frankly,

it wasn’t well attended. We now have the attention of our health

care providers across the country. We have begun running satellite

video broadcasts on both chemical and biological warfare, diagnosis

and treatment across the VA system. In addition, tomorrow we will

be broadcasting a 1-hour satellite video on chemical and biological

warfare, and we will be joined by staff from HHS and DOD. So it

is a joint——

The CHAIRMAN. Prior to 9/11, was that training mandatory or

was it voluntary?

Dr. MURPHY. It was voluntary in the past, and it is voluntary

now. We will have a performance measure in the 2002 network director’s performance measure that incorporates weapons of mass

destruction training in the required training for VA staff, so that

will fulfill their educational requirements.

The CHAIRMAN. Has there been any hesitancy on the part of

M.D.s and any other medical personnel?

Mr. DONNELLAN. We have conducted several training sessions in

conjunction with both the national programs and at local grand

rounds conducted at our facilities. While staff was strongly encourOctober 30, 2002 
27

aged to attend, there was absolutely no problem in achieving very

good attendance. This is something that both our medical professionals and our academic affiliates are interested in.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask both of you gentlemen, if you would,

lessons learned since you were right on the cutting edge of the horrific incident on 9/11.

Mr. FARSETTA. I think there were a number of lessons learned.

And as I indicated to both Secretary Principi and yourself, Mr.

Smith, we are still writing the book.

I would like to comment on something that was mentioned earlier. We—I don’t think we still know what the casualties of this

event are. I think a lesson from Vietnam was, we looked at battlefield casualties, but we didn’t recognize the psychological casualties

until about 5 or 6 years later.

There is no question that the World Trade Center was witnessed

by hundreds of thousands of people. In addition to the rescuers and

the individuals involved in the recovery, there are many people

who saw this; and we have yet to understand the psychological impact this is going to have, and we don’t know how many casualties

we are going to get. And I think the VA is perhaps one of the few

organizations in the United States, perhaps in the world, that is

really uniquely qualified to take care of this problem.

As you are no doubt aware, insurance providers don’t offer mental health services. They offer very little in the area of mental

health. We certainly are an organization that provides a full range

of mental health services. We know about 20 percent of the fire department members were veterans, and we certainly are looking to

extend services to those individuals. But it seems to me we may

also have a responsibility to extend services beyond that, because

if someone were to come in with a ruptured spleen, we would not

even think about whether we should repair it. If someone comes in,

emotionally shattered, 90 days after the event, it seems to me we

have the same responsibility.

An additional lesson learned is communication. You know, the—

where the plane struck was the Verizon information center for the

city. About 3 million lines went down. We were fortunate in that

we were able to maintain communication. The necessity of where

our supplies were, how to move supplies, the fact that traffic wasn’t

moving in the city and how could you get from point A to point B,

the ability to discharge patients, the fact that home care services

really didn’t function because there was no way for people in the

lower end of Manhattan, where our agencies were, to get out to patients. So it required us to really look at the whole delivery of services, because no one in their wildest imagination, whatever scenario planning we had done as it relates to disaster, whatever simulations we had done.

The New York Harbor Health Care System had a disaster drill

probably about 2 weeks earlier, probably as close to a simulation

that you could do, but nothing compared to the magnitude that we

encountered and just the total devastation.

The only thing that prevented more casualties was simply the

time that the planes hit the buildings. It had nothing to do with

the weapon that was deployed, because in all honesty at about midday there probably would have been about 50,000 people in that

October 30, 2002 
28

building instead of maybe about 11,000 or 12,000 people in that

building.

And I will ask John—John has some firsthand lessons-learned

issues.

Mr. DONNELLAN. First lesson, I would like to say, in spite of any

self-critique we may do of our disaster planning, I think we did remarkably well. I cannot compliment the staff and VA New York

Harbor Health Care System and VISN 3 enough for the work they

did responding to this, while many of them did not know the

whereabouts of their loved ones.

Any time you did this, you sit back and reflect on how you might

have approached it better. I think Jim pointed out correctly that

nobody would have planned for something on this large scale. This

has caused me to stand back and already appoint a team of people

led by a very senior member of my executive staff to look at that—

look at how we might change our disaster planning and our disaster drills to start looking at very large-scale catastrophic events

and looking at situations where the ETA of victims or casualties

and the number and type of casualties arriving are very, very variable and potentially very, very large.

Another lesson learned, one that we did remarkably well at, but

it occurs to me that something we should think about is the way

in which we adapted. Early on, certainly within the first 12 hours,

we were focused on potential casualties. It became very apparent

in that period of time that there weren’t a huge number of casualties coming out of this, but a role emerged as a support for medical

supplies and material needed for the disaster. It became readily apparent that we needed to provide traumatic stress counseling for

victims, for their families who were seeking information, and for

our own staff who had witnessed this occur.

It also became apparent, and we agreed within about 24—within

24 to 36 hours, to provide backup support to 3,000 New York State

Army National Guard troops deployed to the area, and that we

really needed to gear up in that support role. That pointed out

some the issues that I think we can improve on in terms of our

communication—our medical information infrastructure; there may

be a better way we can look at rapidly communicating information

about military personnel that VA would be called upon to provide

medical support for.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Mr. Evans.

Mr. EVANS. Mr. Secretary, this panel has given a lot of evidence

for us to justify holding in abeyance plans to impose any medical

bed shutdowns or diminished medical care or mass care capacity

VA-wide until the impact on our Nation’s ability to respond to research and medical care needs are analyzed and reported to the

committee.

In addition, I think it also justifies us spending more on posttraumatic stress disorder. I was out at the ceremony at the Pentagon. And if you look at the pamphlet it put out, it had the names

of the people missing in action and also the people killed; and I

would say roughly one-third of them were women. Women have

been moving up the rank structure and are in areas in this new

world of combat really on the front lines because there really aren’t

any front lines anymore.

October 30, 2002 
29

So how will we address the issues of women who need our services, traditionally in not using the VA so much in the past, but

maybe more demanding? Would you care to comment about that?

Secretary PRINCIPI. Well, I think the VA has moved forward aggressively in the care of women veterans across our system. Almost

every medical center I visit has a very dynamic women’s health

center where they address the broad range of health care needs.

In the area of PTSD, for example, perhaps there is more we need

to do. We have 400 trained counselors, people who are experts in

PTSD around the country; and I think we need to look at that as

one of the lessons learned, one of the areas that we need to do

more work. But clearly, as Mr. Farsetta indicated, I think the

health care needs of many, many people will not be known for some

time yet, as we learned during the Vietnam War and Persian Gulf

War.

Mr. EVANS. I have one other comment. Chiropractic doctors work

very hard in the clean-up and counseling of people. I hope you will

keep that in mind as you deal with the chiropractic care issue that

we have raised at other forums.

Secretary PRINCIPI. We had a very, very good response time in

New York and Washington with employees from the National Center for PTSD in Palto Alto and others from around the country.

Mr. EVANS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Buyer.

Mr. BUYER. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I want to compliment you,

the VA and your staff in your response on September 11. I note in

your testimony—I suppose I am going to compliment you first, how

is that? I was pleased also with working with DOD to obtain direct

on-line access to DEERS. Hopefully, that continues and we don’t

just do it for now.

Claims were processed within 24 hours, that is great, considering

it normally takes over 200 days. To do it in 24 hours shows that,

in fact, the system can work.

I have a question for you. In your testimony, you say the VA

works closely with the Federal Emergency Management Agency to

ensure compliance with the Presidential Directive 67. Are those

just words, or do you think you really have a good working agency

with FEMA, and they understand what resources and capabilities

you have to offer in a contingency?

Secretary PRINCIPI. I will ask Dr. Murphy to respond, and perhaps Deputy Secretary Allen as well.

Over their years at the VA, but certainly during this crisis and

also during the crisis shortly after I became Secretary, in Houston,

I believe that the working relationship has been top-notch and that

the barriers have come down to effective communication and collaboration across agency lines.

Can more be done? Absolutely. I think the Office of Homeland

Security will further tie in the disparate agencies of government to

work collectively together.

But during my 7-month or 8-month tenure, Mr. Buyer, I have

seen good cooperation.

Again, I think there is room for improvement. We have learned

a lot in this crisis. And just to further point what Mr. Donnellan

was getting at, the ability to get medical records from DOD to VA,

October 30, 2002 
30

is terribly important. The government’s computerized patient

record that allows the electronic transmission of medical records

from DOD to VA, is important today; and we are working diligently

with DOD to make that a reality, but clearly more needs to be

done.

Mr. BUYER. I notice that FEMA lists twelve emergency support

functions. They include possible problem areas during a national

emergency, whether it is transportation, communications, health

and medical services, et cetera. But—of these twelve areas, there

are four in which the VA is positioned very well to respond, but at

no time is VA ever mentioned as a resource for FEMA.

Obviously, that tells me you are correct. There is a lot of room

for improvement.

I also—the gentleman from HHS made a comment with regard

to the anthrax vaccine that you are—wanted to purchase up to 12

million doses; is that correct?

Mr. ALLEN. Treatment for 12 million persons.

Mr. BUYER. Treatment. Not vaccines.

Mr. ALLEN. This would be a prophylaxis treatment.

Mr. BUYER. We had a little discussion here early on on the fourth

mission, and what is difficult in my mind to assess here is, I don’t

know how we define what is robust in your fourth mission so that

you can sort of work backwards. I know Mr. Stearns made a comment about ‘‘incrementally’’ on the fourth mission.

Sometimes I look at the VA and say, you know, the VA is an national asset to our medical systems within our country. There are

things that we identify that the VA does very well.

And as you have your relationship with DOD, I think that America sits out there and believes that there is such great integration

between you, and on the issue of weapons of mass destruction, if

a hospital out there—anywhere in the country, if they needed expertise with regard to a biohazard or a chemical attack, they think

they can go right over to the VA and get that support, and that

that doctor is well trained to do that, or can step right in.

Do you think they are prepared to respond to an NBC attack or

hazard?

And let me add one other thing. All these teaching hospitals that

you have out there, are you going to make it part of the curriculum? Or maybe it already is.

Dr. MURPHY. I think, in general, as far as I know, the only medical school in the country that makes NBC training or weapons of

mass destruction training part of their curriculum is the Uniformed

Services University of the Health Sciences.

You know, we can do more training of our own staff in VA and

have begun to do that. Our staff are well qualified to provide this

treatment today; they will be better qualified over the next several

months.

We also have an MOU with the Department of Health and

Human Services to develop an education program for the NDMS,

the National Disaster Medical System, hospitals to provide them

training. DOD has excellent programs already put together on biological agents and chemical agents. We have utilized their expertise in developing our own training programs, and we will do an

assessment and survey the NDMS hospitals to find out what they

October 30, 2002 
31

already do, what they have available to them, and how we can augment that and make sure we fill in the gaps in their training, in

addition.

Mr. ALLEN. I will just add to that.

One of the key points to recognize with regard to graduate medical education, dealing with mass destruction training for physicians

or health professionals, actually goes to the heart of the core curriculum, and that is dealing with public health issues, dealing with

infectious disease issues.

As we are looking at these types of vectors and weapons that can

be used against us, or biological or chemical agents, a lot of that

is being able to detect it early on, being able to identify it; and

upon identifying it, what is the appropriate course of treatment for

addressing the particular issue.

And so I think that a very critical issue that we need to address

is, what is the core competency that a physician is required to

have; and how we build upon that core so that you have some more

specialized training, perhaps in dealing more specifically with biohazards or chemical issues.

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Carson.

Ms. CARSON. Well, I think probably, Mr. Chairman, it is not a

question for the VA. I get confused on the overlapping on the responsibility and jurisdiction.

What my concern is is the exposure, the major exposure to a lot

of our troops that are going into these various places. I have to look

at C-SPAN and see where they are today, but we will find out.

Is there some mechanism in existence now where if there is a

major infusion of just the big ‘‘A’’ word, that I don’t like to call—

would the VA be in a position to respond? And you have got the

National Guard, you have got the Reservists, the Active military,

you have got all these military people out here.

Mr. Secretary?

Secretary PRINCIPI. Position to respond if service members return

with——

Ms. CARSON. Yes, exposure

Secretary PRINCIPI. We are prepared to respond. Clearly, there

are some areas where we need to work on our training. But by and

large, VA is there to back up the Department of Defense, to assist

and treat these casualties if need be.

Ms. CARSON. I am sure I heard this question earlier and didn’t

hear the answer.

Is there a moratorium on closing down beds now, pending the

resolution of this conflict—this war?

Secretary PRINCIPI. There is no moratorium currently in place.

We are not closing down beds currently, if you will. We have the

CARES process under way. No recommendation has come up to my

office yet on the closure of beds of any VA medical facility in the

system.

Clearly, we need to ensure that any recommendation with regard

to closure or change of mission or enhancing the mission of a VA

medical center around the system takes into consideration the

important role we play today, post-September 11, and the ability

to meet our primary mission, as well as the mission that we have

all talked about today, backup to DOD and assistance to HHS and

October 30, 2002 
32

other agencies of government in the discharge of their

responsibility.

Ms. CARSON. I heard the gentleman earlier talking about the

post-traumatic stress, and we have been through that conversation

a long time and the fact that there is going to be a time lag there

before we discover the widespread impact of post-traumatic stress

and the fact that there is no way right now—and not your fault;

I mean, you are doing a great job. But right now there is no way

to really accommodate and to treat all of those soldiers, if you

will—veterans, who are affected by post-traumatic stress.

And then you have got the World Trade situation, those firemen.

Those people are going to suffer for years to come. Even though

they still have their life and their limbs, they are just injured beyond description.

Secretary PRINCIPI. Certainly in the area of post-traumatic stress

counseling, we will do everything we possibly can with the resources available to us, and certainly consistent with our mission

and law that we treat veterans, to assist people with needs that

they might have. I am not sure we have the capability to care for

the tens of thousands who might need counseling who are not veterans, but we certainly can offer our expertise, training and whatever is necessary.

I think it is important for us to be a resource to the community,

to the Nation, and to the extent we are capable of doing so, whether it be PTSD or assisting HHS, however they need us, we will be

there for this country.

Ms. CARSON. Does CARES consider the crisis mission of the VA?

Does it consider the crisis mission of the VA?

Secretary PRINCIPI. Dr. Murphy has been working closely on

that, and clearly our backup to DOD is a factor.

I am not sure whether we have considered multi-scenario crisis

backup to DOD, handling a major crisis like New York, as part of

the deliberation.

Dr. Murphy.

Dr. MURPHY. I think the Secretary has said it well.

The CARES evaluation does look at DOD backup as one of the

major functions that needs to be carried out within the network

that is being studied. However, it did not adequately address multiple scenarios occurring at the same time, for instance, an ongoing

combat activity, a wartime situation and a terrorist attack here on

U.S. Soil, with other combinations of both civilian and military

backup.

And so we will be reassessing the adequacy of the study criteria

in the light of the activities that occurred in September.

The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentlelady yield for a moment on that

point?

Dr. Murphy, could you tell us what is the time line? I mean

Booz-Allen has undertaken these studies, as we already know.

They are independent contractors working at the discretion or at

the advisement of the VA.

Will instructions go out to include enhanced criteria, that would

be this mission for—especially related to, you know, the possibility

of a weapon of mass destruction or some other terrible scenario?

October 30, 2002 
33

Dr. MURPHY. Chairman Smith, as you know, we completed one

network study in Network 12, the Chicago area, and we have not

made final recommendations to the Secretary based on the evaluation that Booz-Allen did and the comments that we got on their

proposed option. We probably won’t be doing that for several weeks

yet.

In the meantime, Mr. Principi asked us to put together a team

to reassess the CARES study, not only the criteria that were used,

but the data that were used, and to tell him whether the process

should change, how it could be improved, what the lessons learned

were. And before we go on to do any further studies, we will be

making that report to him and changing the statement of work for

the contractors as is appropriate, based on those findings.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Dr. Murphy. Thank you.

The Chair recognizes Mr. Stearns.

Mr. STEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And let me also echo

the comments of my colleagues and to welcome you and to applaud

you for the efforts that you are doing in this serious crisis that we

have.

And, Mr. Secretary, you indicated that following—or you did

form an Emergency Preparedness Working Group. You mentioned

$250 million. And I wanted to talk about that a little bit in light

of the fact that GAO earlier in her testimony had indicated that

in 1998, a Presidential report to Congress on Federal, State and

local preparations and capability to handle medical emergencies resulting from weapons of mass destruction pointed out there were

three areas that needed improvement. So we knew this even before

the World Trade Center.

And just to review with my colleagues, the four missions here are

treat veterans; secondly, medical education and training of the VA

staff; and the third is to conduct medical research; and now the

fourth is to back up the Department of Defense, but within that,

support commitment if it is needed. So within your fourth mission,

first of all, you are supposed to back up the Department of Defense.

So we are talking about that like it is the first priority within the

fourth mission. But it looks to me, if I read this correctly, you really have to support the Department of Defense first.

Now, within—within the GAO report they mentioned three

areas, as far back as 1998, that need corrections. So I submit that

when you come in, Mr. Secretary, for additional money, these three

should be part of this.

And, Mr. Chairman, their VA hospital does not have the capability to process and treat mass casualties resulting from weapons of

mass destruction. And number two, the VA hospitals and most private sector medical facilities are better prepared for treating injuries resulting from chemical exposure than those resulting from biological agents or radiological material. And thirdly, VA hospitals,

like community hospitals, lack decontamination equipment, routine

training to treat mass casualties, and adequate on-hand medical

supplies. So if it is true back then dealing with weapons of mass

destruction, certainly it is going to be true today with some of the

new things that we have.

So I guess my question is, sort of as a suggestion is, and when

you look at this 250 million, these three that I mentioned tie in,

October 30, 2002 
34

and I suggest that you provide—when you provide your request to

the committee, that you also include those three as well as we are

also coming up with your preparedness report.

Secretary PRINCIPI. Mr. Stearns, the task force did, in fact, look

at the 1998 study and did incorporate its findings.

Mr. STEARNS. So that 250- is part to cover these three discrepancies?

Secretary PRINCIPI. Yes, sir. The need for decontamination equipment, the need for more adequate training, stockpiling of antidotes,

things of that nature have been included.

Mr. STEARNS. Well, that is encouraging then, because, I hadn’t

heard about these discrepancies, and I am glad to see that you are

addressing them.

The other question I have is just dealing with—when you offer

post-traumatic stress disorder counseling at the site as a result of

the September 11 attack, how do you evaluate the effectiveness and

how do you measure success in these kinds of activities? Is there

any way to do it in terms of—of how it is going and whether we

should improve it and in what ways we can?

Secretary PRINCIPI. I would like to turn it over to Dr. Murphy,

but I believe that Deputy Secretary Allen has a comment about the

first part of the question, the important part you raised about the

funding.

Mr. ALLEN. Sure. I can also address a portion of the second question as well.

I think it is important to recognize that a lot of—of the request, HHS’s $1.8 billion request, much of that focuses on State and local

response preparedness. And so we would be working with VA with

regard to the training of local and hospital personnel, the first responders in large part. So much of what we are talking about is

going to be in collaboration with VA under the MDS plan.

Mr. STEARNS. So the money that you are requesting would also

help the VA hospitals in the three areas?

Mr. ALLEN. In part, but particularly with regard to training and

helping us to prepare at the local level. That is an area we are

working with them on.

In addition, in response to your question regarding post-traumatic stress, of course, the first responders in those areas are going

to be from New York City, and the role that not only VA played,

but the role that the Federal Government played was not to be the

primary responders. That came first from New York City.

That was then augmented by the State of New York, and then

we were there in large part to provide assistance and backup support. In fact, Secretary Thompson and I—we traveled there the

Thursday after the 11th and met with the Mayor and met with the

Commissioner of Health for New York City, the Commissioner of

Health for the State of New York, and we talked very specifically

about these issues.

Post-traumatic stress does not occur immediately. We are going

to incur this not only days from the event, but weeks, months and

even years. And so I think the standard of measure is how quickly

do we identify that someone is experiencing post-traumatic stress

and how effectively do we deal with it, how effectively to bring the

resources to bear? And then, in this regard, VA can augment much

October 30, 2002 
35

of what is already in the civilian area. But it is not necessarily

going to be a primary response. It will be supportive.

Ms. MURPHY. If I could just add a few comments to that, Mr.

Stearns. VA is very expert in post-traumatic stress disorder research and treatment. However, our experience is primarily in the

long-term chronic effects of PTSD. I think that very few people in

the United States, few groups, have experience with what the best

way to deal with these disaster situations is, and it would be helpful to have more research done on acute effects and what is effective in preventing the long-term consequences of this kind of a

traumatic exposure.

In fact, on Saturday, Mr. Donnellan, Mr. Farsetta participated

with some local representatives in talking through how they should

adapt their programs to treat the responders, and how we should

track their success over time, and what research they should do,

and what instruments could be used in that research.

So we are working with the local New York staff and the local

agencies in that response.

I don’t know if you want to say something else.

Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I would point out if we are going

to extend this program over a period of time, we should have some

way to measure the success or failure. So I suggest if any letter—

we work on that kind of understanding, you know, in dealing with

the things we had from Vietnam as well as from the Gulf War, trying to understand that would be helpful.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Stearns.

The Chair recognizes Dr. Snyder.

Dr. SNYDER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, Mr. Secretary. I appreciate you all being here.

If I might, I think I want to do more of a kind of rambling statement, then have you comment on it, rather than just asking a precise question.

One of the things that has gotten to me the most personally in

this whole post-September 11 thing is I had my staff the day afterwards go back and look through some of our House Armed Services

Committee hearings about what has been said before about predictions of terrorism. And I served on the House Panel on Terrorism for a year and a half or so, and we had multiple hearings about

Osama bin Laden and all of those kinds of folks.

But the one that got to me the most was this year, March 21 of

this year, 6 or 8 months ago, Floyd Spence, who passed away the

last week of August before any of this occurred, had an open hearing on the—the Rudman-Hart report in kind of a rambling question. But I remember some of specifically what he said is he was

talking about attacks on the American homeland. He said to Senator Hart, this is not a risk of the future. He said, it is right now.

Then his exact words were, we will lose large numbers of people.

So that is the House Armed Services side of things that I think

all of us have sat through some of this. But then I hear some of

statements here, and I don’t mean to be critical at all. I am concerned that we are not getting information to you from the Armed

Services side, or DOD is not communicating with you.

But here, the gentlemen who work in the area where we had the

1993 bombing of the World Trade Center are telling us that it

October 30, 2002 
36

didn’t envision that level of catastrophe, but the plan was to topple

one tower in 1993 into the other one, and take them both down.

The bombing in Kenya in 1998, I believe there were several hundred killed, there were 5,000 wounded, a lot of them penetration

injuries because it was a two-phase bomb. A small one went off, everybody ran to the windows in all of the surrounding buildings, the

big one went off, and there was a lot of penetration injuries.

When I read through your statement earlier today, Mr. Secretary, I was struck by—you were very clear that this has been

something that you all and we all together have been directed to

look at before. But I guess the reality is it is one thing to look at

it as an academic exercise; it is another to look at it when you have

had the heartbreak of September 11.

So my first question is, why did you have to form a working

group? Why wasn’t this an ongoing function of what—how do we

respond? The scenario for this month is how we respond to massive

casualties in South Korea transported back to be cared for by our

VA hospitals. A scenario for next month is what do we do if there

is a repeat attack on New York? That was part of the mandate

from Congress that we have all been dealing with.

When I looked at your list of things, the 12 recommendations,

these are things, I think, that are lessons already learned. The—

the National Guard and Reserve units will be called. That is what

happened in 1991. Mr. Buyer didn’t work in the VA hospital, but

wherever he was working at when he was called up was a problem.

That there will need to be a lot of post-traumatic counseling, that

would certainly would be the situation if we had a massive conflict

in South Korea.

The VA needs to have increased security forces. I know you have

been dealing with that because of animal labs, you have incidents

occur where people have targeted your animal labs in VA hospitals,

and they are a Federal facility. We had the bombing of a Federal

facility by Timothy McVeigh.

The cyberthreats. That has been a concern, as you indicate in

your statement.

The possibility of needing to expand cemetery space. That should

be something that we all have been—would be planning for if there

was a major event in the Korean Peninsula.

So my question is—and I am not pointing fingers at anyone because we are all in this together—what has happened now is a

heightened awareness of the reality of this, I mean, because, in

fact, it has been the mandate for all of us here in the Congress,

in the DOD to prepare for these kind of events, because, as Floyd

Spence pointed out, we will lose large numbers of people in the

American homeland. He said that 7 or 8 months ago. Do you have

any comments?

Secretary PRINCIPI. Yes, Doctor Snyder. It is heightened awareness, and I certainly don’t mean to imply by creating the Emergency Preparedness Task Force that we have not been working in

the past. And indeed, VHA, the Department, has, in fact, done so.

In the area of cybersecurity we have brought on a cybersecurity

director to assist with intrusions and viruses and things of that nature, and VHA has been working with HHS.

October 30, 2002 
37

But I felt that because of this crisis and the multiple scenarios

that might be going on with DOD overseas in a warlike footing,

and perhaps other terrorist acts at home, that we needed to be prepared. I wanted to see where we were, where we had deficiencies

and what steps we could take immediately to shore up in the event

of an additional crisis. But it clearly has moved from an academic

exercise to a more serious one.

Dr. SNYDER. I think the Chairman and I and some others here

were trying to read your expression when we got the number from

OMB in the budget, And as I look at some of these things on the

list of 12, there are things, my guess is, that you had tried to fund

earlier than now. And I think the committee is certainly supportive

of you.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Mr. Filner.

Mr. FILNER. I am going to talk to the Secretary a little bit about

resources.

Mr. Allen, you had an exchange with Mr. Buyer where the figure

12 million came up, and I guess I wasn’t paying attention too

much, but 12 million treatments? What were you talking about?

Mr. ALLEN. We are requesting additional funds to expand our

current pharmaceutical stockpile, which currently treats 2 million

citizens for a course of 60 days for exposure to anthrax. We are expanding that to a course of treatment for 12 million, actually expanding it to 12 million for a course of 60 days.

Mr. FILNER. That is what I thought I heard. So you are telling

me that this administration, which is on the air and saying, relax,

go to dinner, travel, go to Disneyland, is preparing for 10 million

additional anthrax victims? Is that what you are telling me?

Mr. ALLEN. It is called preparedness. We are not——

Mr. FILNER. I understand. But the American people need to understand what we are talking about here. If we are going to be concerned, let us know. Now, you are telling me something that I had

never heard from the President before, that we need to be prepared

to treat 12 million people for anthrax? Is that what you are saying?

Mr. ALLEN. I will be glad to answer your question. But I think

that you are taking it out of context. The current stockpile is prepared to address mass casualties in the case of anthrax or plague

or tularemia or others to the tune of about 2 million people.

We believe that it is important for the stockpile to be adequate

to address any future threats to our Nation, that we would expand

that to cover 12 million. That is not to say that we are anticipating

that to be the case, but it is better to be prepared than to be sorry.

Mr. FILNER. I agree with you about being prepared, but I am surprised that that kind of announcement comes from the Deputy Secretary for Health, Education, and Welfare instead of the President

of the United States. So I think this committee and the American

people ought to look at that with some degree of apprehension.

It leads into my questions for Mr. Principi. When you were confirmed, Mr. Principi, many of us, including myself, said you were

the man for the job. And when you were confirmed, we supported

your appointment, and I think now with this crisis, you are the

man for the job.

October 30, 2002 
38

And I would like to know, given the Congress’ approval of a $40

billion appropriation, have you as the Secretary requested any of

that money for your use?

Mr. PRINCIPI. The money I have requested is to reimburse VA for

an amount we expended in New York to respond to this crisis. And

the $40 billion basically is to allocate resources to the Department

that have been called upon as a result of this crisis.

Mr. FILNER. If you would like some unsolicited advice, as someone who supports your Agency, I heard from the Under Secretary

that Governor Thompson is requesting a billion and a half. It

seems to me as a VA Secretary you have got to be in there fighting.

My reading of the situation is as follows, and correct me if I am

wrong: contrary to the recommendations of this committee, Congress for fiscal year 2002 came in with a budget for your Agency

that could barely keep up with inflation. As I said earlier, I have

heard, and I don’t know if that was in writing or just I heard, that

you are preparing your field people for a deficit of roughly $800

million. If you add that deficit to the new demands now, including

12 million anthrax victims, it seems to me you need to get in there

and fight for, as I said earlier, a billion dollars, if those figures are

accurate.

And you know when we had your hearings, you may recall it

may have been me who suggested that the previous Secretary was

not in there fighting in the bureaucratic struggles. You assured us

that you were going to be in there fighting. I hope you are. You

know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I know that there is a national concern. We are all trying to be

united. But if the Governor is in there for a billion and a half, and

we are in there for $200 million, I can tell you that we are not

going to get what we ought to have.

Secretary PRINCIPI. I appreciate your sentiments, Mr. Filner. I

can assure you that I have been fighting from day one for the resources I feel the Department needs to fulfill its mission. I will continue to do so. I will never shy away from doing so. And then once

the figures are given, then I will comply.

But with regard to the $800 million shortfall in 2002, I am not

aware of that figure.

Mr. FILNER. Some of your hospital administrators have been told

that.

Dr. MURPHY. We have been doing some budget planning. Related——

Mr. FILNER. I would like to talk to the Secretary, if I might.

I have heard the $800 million figure from various people that

they have had internal communications saying they have to be prepared for real cutbacks. But, regardless of that, we are passing legislation here. I won’t mention the piece of legislation, but it is going

to put new demands on you. So we haven’t kept up with the old

demands, we have new demands, and we have an emergency.

Now is the time, and we are prepared to support you, at least

I am, and I am sure the Chairman is, for additional resources to

do the job you have outlined here, and there have been incredibly

good questions. I thought the Chairman’s questions on what you

have learned were incredibly good, and I thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And what you have learned means there is more work to do, more

October 30, 2002 
39

training, more, as you mentioned, real life, taking this thing not as

an academic exercise any longer.

So there are new demands on you. I hope you are in there fighting for those, because I don’t want to tell my veterans who are

waiting 200 days, well, now you are going to have to wait 400 days

or we can’t give that kind of medical help because we are engaged

in this emergency.

I have already read the testimony of Dr. Murphy here. I want

you to get the resources that we can to do the total job. My advice,

unsolicited.

Secretary PRINCIPI. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

I just have a couple of final questions I just want to make, and

I think the record should be very clear about this. I alluded to it

earlier when we heard from the GAO, but just as recently as

March 8, 2000, GAO did a scathing report about the Veterans Administration as well as the Office of Emergency Preparedness,

OEP, and the Marine Corps Chemical Biological Incident Response

Force, the CBIRF, that they did not manage the stockpiles of pharmaceuticals very well, and it was a very, very disturbing report.

Just 2 years later, a little over 2 years later, in testimony delivered today by that same author. That same investigative team, Ms.

Bascetta, the Director of Health Care, she is pointing out that the

VA has improved, that the stockpiles are now—while they are not

enough the way—that is one reason why we are here today—that

you have made—done yeoman’s work in inventory management

and ensuring that they are potent and that they are up-to-date,

and I want to commend you for that, Mr. Secretary, and your very

distinguished team. She makes note that we have ongoing concerns

about security, but I think that is in every one of our agencies.

So I want to thank you for that, and, I mean, what a difference

just those several months have made. And you did respond, and

you responded very, very admirably, and, again, I wanted to thank

you for that.

I do want to ask Dr. Allen, we know that the VA has done much

in the area of the—the scenarios. And could you summarize what

lessons we learned from the TOPOFF 2000 and Dark Winter

exercises?

Mr. ALLEN. Sure. I think there are a number of lessons that can

be learned from those; first of all, the clear need for coordination.

We need to coordinate with the State and local governments that

are first responders. We also need to coordinate with the media

that can be an ally in circumstances like this. Those are very clear

areas that we need to work on.

We also need to work very closely with VA in positioning our

stockpile resources to be able to be utilized, broken down to smaller

units so that they can get to the sites, multiple sites, at the appropriate time. These are some of the areas that we have talked about.

We have also understood the need that—in the case of our stockpile resources, they need to be under government control so that

we can have access to them. Some of them are in the hands of private corporations that manufacture them.

And so there are quite a number of other issues that we have

learned from these exercises. I think the clear one, though, is prior

October 30, 2002 
40

coordination. That is what we are working very closely with our

partners at DOD, VA and FEMA and others to accomplish.

The CHAIRMAN. The national pharmaceutical program is divided

into two components, 8-hour, 12-hour push packages and vendormanaged inventory. I wonder if you can tell us, any member of our

panel, what responsibilities does the VA have? I know that you

stockpile, but what about coordinating and disseminating these

vaccines and those medicines when they are needed?

Mr. ALLEN. I think we can share this response, but I think it is

very important to note that there is a very clear role for VA. First

of all, they are the purchaser of many of the items that go into the

stockpile. Because of the purchasing power that the VA has, we

contract, and in many cases exclusively, with the VA to purchase

items for the stockpile.

Also, the VA has a role in the rotation of the stockpile, maintaining relationships with the vendors, with our vendor management

inventory, There is a considerable amount of additional training required as well so it is a very broad role that VA plays, at least from

our perspective, one that is very vital to the accomplishment of our

mission.

The CHAIRMAN. In terms of the amount, is the amount enough in—I noticed we spent, what, $62 million from Health and Human

Services in fiscal year 2001? I think it was a little less than that

a year before. Are we procuring enough?

Mr. ALLEN. As I stated earlier, one of the things we will be doing

is augmenting the stockpile. We have looked at it to try to decide

what we need to purchase more of. We will be making a significant

augmentation to the stockpile, so depending on the circumstances,

what we want to deal with—trying to deal with the multiple sites,

multiple scenarios may be necessary in trying to make that available. And I think the answer would be, no, it is not sufficient. That

is why we have asked for additional resources.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask one final question. As we all know,

the President has said we are at war. There seems to be no doubt

about that given the events on September 11. Now, the VA’s strategic plan, the current one that obviously was drawn up before that

horrific event, the working assumption is there will be no war during that time period that the strategic plan is in effect. Does that

now cause a reevaluation of the working assumption in terms of

how much money we need?

I know I am going at it from a little bit different from—does this

help you, perhaps, with other agencies of government, including

the Office of Management and Budget, to say, look, we are not

playing games here with this money, we need it now, we are at

war. And the VA is an absolute vital component in the delivery of

health care and an important and vital service in a war scenario.

Secretary PRINCIPI. I believe so. Absolutely.

Mr. FILNER. Can I just ask a quick follow-up? Have you put a

number on this, Mr. Secretary? It has been a month since September 11. How much money is the VA going to need to meet its fourth

objective plus the first three? Have you come up with a figure?

Secretary PRINCIPI. Right now to correct the deficiencies that my task force recommended is $250 million. That is the figure that we

have today. Now, based upon new planning assumptions underOctober 30, 2002 
41

taken by the NDMS, that is all of the key players in emergency

management preparedness, if the assumption is of the additional

beds, additional capacity, then that number will go up. But for the

deficiencies that we have today the figure is $250 million.

Mr. FILNER. There is going to be a bureaucratic struggle for this

$40 billion. I would go way up since you are going to get less than

what you ask for.

If my figures before were correct, which you didn’t correct me, so

I will go with that—we have real needs here, and we are prepared

to support that. I hope you will fight for them.

Secretary PRINCIPI. Well, I certainly will. I am just fighting to

get the Senate to agree to the House mark.

Mr. FILNER. But $40 billion, as I said.

Secretary PRINCIPI. I am having a tough time in both the House

and the Senate to get an additional $300 million for emergency

construction, emergency repairs. Now I have been taken to the

woodshed because I am up here indicating how important it is to

VA that we have that additional increase. I am having difficulty

because of the allocation here in Congress to get the money necessary to implement H.R. 811.

So, yes, I would love to get a bigger part of the $40 billion, half

of which is going to defense—for this war effort, and much of it is

going to New York to assist the victims and the families.

So, Mr. Filner, I can assure you I am going from office to office

on the Hill here doing what I can as well as OMB and the White

House to try to get the resources necessary.

Mr. FILNER. Think about the $1 billion figure.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to thank you, Mr. Secretary, because we

have passed out of this committee and out of the Congress on the

House side a number of important bills that beef up the health care

component. Tomorrow the Homeless Act will be up, which is a very

comprehensive piece of legislation to assist the 215,000 plus homeless veterans who on any given night find themselves without adequate shelter. That will be up tomorrow. That costs money. We also

have an important bill dealing with additional health care, and you

have—this gets, unfortunately, over to the Senate side, and they

are good friends and colleagues, but we hope that they will move

on this legislation soon.

So I want to thank you, because you have been walking the halls

and the corridors of the Senate to get 811 out. We called that the

emergency hospital repair bill because it is. You backed us to the

hilt. You testified in favor. We passed it. It was bipartisan. It sits

and languishes on the Senate side. Hopefully this week, at latest

next week, that bill gets down to the President; gets passed by the

Senate and then down to the President. That is emergency. We

have got to expend that money to fix our hospitals.

Mr. Buyer, you had a follow-up question.

Mr. BUYER. I do, but I have got some thoughts, too.

You know, it is easy for us here in Congress. We even get to

make the rules. We even get to build the woodshed that we take

you to. And we even sometimes craft rules that are almost unrealistic that you cannot achieve. So when we did the eligibility reform,

this Congress, this committee, did not anticipate the level of utiliOctober 30, 2002 
42

zation from category 7. If anybody says they did, I don’t think they

are being truthful with themselves, let alone with the public.

So we create a problem within the health system. So then you

come up here, and we beat you up as to whether you have been

able to accomplish your mission or not. I am not going to be tough

on you. I think in my own opinion Mr. Filner is a little overly critical here, because Congress created this problem, and we are going

to have to take on the issue of reexamination of eligibility reform,

its impact upon those who are supposed to receive the core competency missions of the VA.

With regard to this apprehension comment that Mr. Filner made,

I don’t understand where he is coming from. Mr. Filner, I don’t.

Number one, I find no paradox between a President who says to

a Nation that you need to get back on with your lives, but at the

same time his chief law enforcement officer says to the public at

large to trust your senses. You know, the first responders—I used

Mr. Allen’s comments about first responders, Mr. Chairman—are

law enforcement to include our military. They probably are most

attuned to their senses that if it doesn’t look right, feel right, smell

right, you know, it probably isn’t right.

And the population as a whole have been going out there carrying on their lives and not really paying attention to their senses.

Now we have a Nation of 280 million who are paying attention to

their senses that, hey, it is okay. If something doesn’t look like it

probably isn’t right, I can go ahead and report it because we

haven’t been that suspicious as a society.

So when a President says to a Nation, let’s get back on with our

lives, and the top law enforcement officer says, it is okay for you

to trust your instincts, and at the same time we turn then to our

health system and we are going to examine our health system not

only from this committee, but from other committees, as they begin

to look in toward—with regard to our stockpiles, we always talk

about military medical readiness, but what about that medical

readiness of those health delivery systems and how they integrate

with each other and coordinate? I don’t see any of the stuff in a

vacuum. So I find no paradox and no necessity for ‘‘apprehension.’’

I also, Mr. Chairman, want to make this comment. I know we

are going to receive testimony from Dr. Sue Bailey with regard to

this stuff about, gee, they should be apprehensive if it is this large

a number. I remember former Secretary Bill Cohen. Bill Cohen

tried to alert the Nation and held up that 10-pound bag of sugar

and said, you know, this is the amount of anthrax, if you put it in

aerial sprayer, this is what the consequences would be, it would go

across States.

Now, I think it is extraordinarily responsive for Health and

Human Services then to create stockpiles, because it was a former

administration—I compliment Bill Clinton, and we didn’t exchange

Christmas cards. He went out and he got—he chose the SOCOM

commander to become the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Mr. Chairman, I don’t see these things in a vacuum, but now I

have got two questions I have to ask after that I will get off my

soapbox, because I won’t take you to the woodshed.

Mr. Allen, you used the word ‘‘first responders.’’ you have used

that repeatedly. I want you to define that.

October 30, 2002 
43

Mr. ALLEN. In our category, first responders are those who would

be part of the emergency system at the local level. They would be

your fire, your police, your hospital, local hospital, who will be the

initial persons on site to deal with the casualties, to do the triage,

to determine what is necessary as we begin to bring additional resources to bear on that location where an event occurs. So that is

what we refer to as first responders.

Mr. BUYER. All right. Help me here. You have got your police officers, your firefighters, your EMTs. So to you first responders does

not stop at the emergency room door?

Mr. ALLEN. Not at all.

Mr. BUYER. Tell me where it stops.

Mr. ALLEN. It also does not stop at the local level, because then

you have the State system that kicks in. You also have the Federal

system. For example, New York was a good example of that.

Whereas New York’s EMTs, fireman, their hospital system, all

were activated at the same time, we also were activated to address

the emergency by moving and positioning resources there. That included working in partnership with VA to position people as well

as the stockpile there. We also were there to help assist with evaluation. And that all comes under—the Federal Emergency Management Agency works with us to get that done as well.

Mr. BUYER. My last question, it is almost—put it this way. I

know we are going—Dr. Chu is going to come up next. So I want

to sort of get Dr. Chu to sort of think about this. We talked about

the lessons learned and, I think, about the Gulf War and the Gulf

War illness issues.

So now we have the 10th Mountain Division going to Uzbekistan,

and now the 101st may be deploying. We have special forces deployed, and I don’t know if we have baselined those soldiers prior

to deployment. We had a lot of hearings, a lot of discussions on

what to do about the force. It was to be coordinations between the

VA and DOD about medical records and base-lining so we have got

something so when they come back, I don’t want to have, you

know, illnesses, undefined illnesses number two.

So, Mr. Secretary, have there been ongoing discussions? If not,

when can we anticipate them?

Secretary PRINCIPI. You know, I saw it coming during the Gulf

War when I was Deputy Secretary of VA. I just thought to myself

we had just gone through this enormously controversial history

with Agent Orange and dioxin. And as I was sitting there in my

office watching the fires in the Gulf, I said to my staff, we better

build a registry so we can track people so that 10, 20 years after

their service we have some baseline upon which to make this

thoughtful decision with regard to their disabilities. And, again, it

is beginning to happen again, and we need to have that baseline,

to work cooperatively with DOD so we know about the people who

are going into harm’s way, and so that when they do return and

they claim disability benefits, we have some basis upon which to

make the right decisions.

I think we are making great progress, but I still believe that we

have a ways to go, and perhaps you can talk a little bit about it.

Dr. MURPHY. We have worked very hard over the past 10 years

to improve the prescreening and postscreening after a deployment,

October 30, 2002 
44

but DOD has really taken a force health protection look at their

system and creating a lifelong medical record. And the surveillance

system, I won’t tell you that it is perfect, but I will tell you that

it is much better than it was in 1991 and that we are continuing

to refine those programs.

I will let Dr. Chu talk about the DOD response this time.

Mr. BUYER. Mr. Secretary, I want to work with you on this one,

because I have got great fears about what’s coming up. I think we

are very naive if we think that there aren’t chemicals or biologicals

in these caves, and to think that we are sending some forces in

there, we need to prepare ourselves.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Mr. FILNER. If I might.

The CHAIRMAN. Very brief.

Mr. FILNER. I understand. Mr. Buyer had almost 10 minutes on

his soapbox and he personally referred to me, and I would like to

respond, if I may.

The CHAIRMAN. Briefly, please.

Mr. FILNER. He asked where I was coming from. Like you, Mr.

Buyer, I am not looking at this in a vacuum. We are at war. The

President said it. Our Chairman has said it. It is a new kind of

war. It is a war that requires the unity of this Nation as we have

never had before.

A lot of lessons were learned from Vietnam. My lesson from Vietnam is you don’t get that unity unless you are honest with the

American people and honest with the United States Congress. We

are not getting that information from this administration. I have

been at classified briefings, as have you. I have been at meetings.

We have never heard this preparedness for another 10 million anthrax vaccines.

The President tried to keep only eight Members of this representative body informed of what was happening. That has been enlarged, but it hasn’t been enlarged up to me, I will tell you.

I will tell you where I am coming from. I want to support this

President. I have supported this President. But I want information

about what he is doing. I don’t want to hinder our war effort. I

don’t want the kind of information that is going to give the enemy

advanced notice of anything. But I need the information to make

intelligent decisions about that war and about our support of that

war, and about the kind of actions that this government is going

to take, and we are being asked to make decisions without information, Mr. Buyer. That is where I am coming from.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me thank our very distinguished panel.

Ms. CARSON. Can I ask one very brief question?

With respect to medical records, I have a lot of constituents that

were exposed to Agent Orange, and their records have been lost.

Is there a mechanism in place now to preserve the records of veterans? I mean, is there a backup system? You know what I am saying? A lot of people’s records have been lost.

Secretary PRINCIPI. The records are maintained by the Department of Defense and the National Records Processing Center in St.

Louis. Those records are then transferred to VA when a veteran

files a claim for disability compensation or pension. Regarding

medical records, DOD and VA are working on a computerized paOctober 30, 2002 
45

tient record, that will be backed up, but by and large the hard copy

is maintained by DOD.

Ms. CARSON. I understand a lot of the hard copies were lost, according to my veterans.

Mr. PRINCIPI. During the fire. Prior to the 1956 fire, I believe.

The CHAIRMAN. Again, Mr. Secretary and panelists, thank you

for your work on behalf of the American veterans.

I would like to ask our third panel if they would make their way

to the witness table, beginning with Dr. David Chu, who is the

Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness. He is the

senior policy advisor on recruitment, career development, pay and

benefits for 1.4 million Active Duty personnel and 1.3 million

Guard and Reserve personnel, and 680,000 DOD civilians, and he

is responsible for overseeing the state of readiness.

Dr. Chu, we welcome you.

We also have a very distinguished panel that includes Dr. Sue

Bailey, who was the Assistant Secretary of Defense, where she

headed the $17 billion medical system coordinating the care for

some 8 million beneficiaries.

We will also hear from Mr. Kenneth Kasprisin, who is the Associate Director for Readiness, Response and Recovery Directorate for

FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Mr. James Krueger, a 35-year veteran of the American Red

Cross, who will also provide his insights and expertise. Thank you

for being here.

And finally Ms. Annie Everett, the Acting Regional Administrator for the National Capital Region of the GSA, the General

Services Administration.

Doctor, if you could begin. Dr. Chu.

STATEMENTS OF DAVID S.C. CHU, UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, PERSONNEL AND READINESS, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE; SUE BAILEY, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF

DEFENSE FOR HEALTH AFFAIRS; KENNETH S. KASPRISIN,

ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, READINESS, RESPONSE AND RECOVERY DIVISION, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY; JAMES KRUEGER, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, CHAPTER SERVICES NETWORK, AMERICAN RED CROSS; AND

ANNIE EVERETT, ACTING REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR FOR

THE NATIONAL CAPITAL REGION, GENERAL SERVICES

ADMINISTRATION

STATEMENT OF DAVID S.C. CHU

Dr. CHU. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure

to be here and have the opportunity to present the DOD’s views on

the Department of Veterans Affairs role as the principal backup to

the Department of Defense in the event of war or national emergency.

The Department of Defense places enormous value on all of its

sharing partnerships with Department of Veterans Affairs. Since

the outset of this—since the outset of the sharing program, which

was established in the 1982 legislation, Department of Veterans Affairs and Department of Defense Health Resources Sharing Emergency Operations Act, DOD has subscribed to the premise of imOctober 30, 2002 
46

proved economy of operation that health resources sharing has

held. In addition to greater sharing of peacetime health care resources between VA and DOD, this legislation authorized the VA

to serve as the principal health care backup to DOD in the event

of war or national emergency that involves armed conflict.

The military health system consists of nearly 80 hospitals and

several hundred clinics worldwide serving an eligible population of

8.3 million. In addition, we have medical units capable of deploying

with our Armed Forces to provide the preventative and

resuscitative care that our troops may require while serving outside of the United States.

Because of our constant vigilance and need to be prepared to

support the Armed Forces at any location around the world, military medicine has the tremendous ability to provide health and

medical capabilities rapidly in a mobile or deployed mode. Some of

these capabilities include field hospitals, specialized medical augmentation teams, field laboratory diagnostic capabilities, and so on.

Additionally, we have our stationary military medical facilities located around the Nation that have inpatient capabilities.

The military health system continues to leverage the wartime capabilities of the men and women in our Armed Forces for domestic

consequence management in support of the civil authorities.

The military medical team was ready to respond to the events of

September 11. The hospital ship USNS Comfort was dispatched

within 48 hours to New York City with Navy medical personnel

from the National Naval Medical Center. The Army’s DiLorenzo

clinic staff at the Pentagon was among the first responders to the

attack on that building. Additionally, Walter Reed Army Medical

Center immediately dispatched three trauma teams, a preventative

medicine team and two combat stress teams to respond to the Pentagon attack.

In response to the law authorizing a new contingency role for the

VA, a memorandum of understanding was executed between The

Secretary of Defense and the Administrator of Veterans Affairs,

now the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, specifying each agency’s responsibilities under the law. This MOU outlines the plan for the

activation of the VA/DOD contingency hospital system. The system

is activated by the VA after the Secretary of Defense determines

that DOD needs VA medical care resources because of medical conflict or another type of national emergency. The Secretary of Defense notifies the Secretary of Veterans Affairs in writing of any

need for medical care contingency support. The Secretary of Veterans Affairs commits VA to provide support and communicates this

commitment to the Secretary of Defense in writing. Through the

VA/DOD contingency hospital system, DOD receives periodic estimates of VA contingency bed availability. This plan is jointly reviewed and updated each year by the DOD and VA.

Within the Department of Defense, the Commander in Chief U.S.

Joint Forces Command has overall responsibility to ensure integrated medical operations in the continental United States. Consequently, an integrated medical operations plan is in place that

coordinates all United States medical assets in support of DOD casualties. This operations plan is supported by the VA/DOD contingency hospital system plan.

October 30, 2002 
47

The VA and DOD bed contingency plans are also supplemented

by the National Disaster Medical System. This robust bed expansion capability will be activated subsequent to a war or national

emergency requiring more than the combined resources of the DOD

and the VA.

DOD is the primary Federal agency responsible for administering

the NDMS. The NDMS may be activated by the Assistant Secretary of Health for Health Affairs in support of military contingencies when casualties exceed the combined capabilities of the VA/

DOD contingency care system.

When the Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services

activates NDMS in response to a domestic conventional disaster,

DOD components when authorized will participate in relief operations to the extent compatible with U.S. National security

interests.

The success of this joint venture was aptly demonstrated immediately following the September 11 attack on the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon. In anticipation of receiving casualties,

as Mr. Allen has testified, the Secretary of Health and Human

Services activated NDMS, whereupon both VA and DOD began to

report that availability to the Global Patient Requirement Center

located at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois. There were, however,

tragically, no casualties evacuated as a result of this event, as local

resources were able to handle the treatment needed.

In summary, Mr. Chairman, the events of September 11 have

highlighted the importance of a coordinated Federal response to national disasters. While each of us must ensure that our health care

system is capable of meeting the demands of our respective missions, we recognize the vital role of the Department of Veterans Affairs in providing backup to the Department of Defense in the

event of war or national emergency.

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Chu, thank you very much for your testimony.

[The prepared statement of Dr. Chu appears on p. 121.]

The CHAIRMAN. And, Dr. Bailey, if you would proceed.

STATEMENT OF SUE BAILEY

Dr. BAILEY. Chairman Smith, members of the Committee, thank

you for inviting me today to testify.

In my role as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs,

I was responsible for the health system and was the principal advisor to the Secretary of Defense on issues of health, health force protection, and chemical and biological warfare.

Key aspects of meeting wartime and peacetime requirements are

DOD’s Integrated CONUS Medical Operations Plan, which coordinates CONUS medical resources; the VA/DOD Contingency Hospital System; and the National Disaster Medical System, NDMS,

which supplements the national energy needs of the VA and the

DOD. During the recent attacks on September 11, HHS did, in fact,

as you have heard, activate the NDMS. While the low number of

casualties allowed local Federal medical facilities to cope, we cannot assume that future national emergencies would play out similarly. Clearly in the wake of the attacks, the domestic aspects of

VA and DOD participation in the NDMS takes on a new relevance.

October 30, 2002 
48

I believe there is much we can do to leverage the superb private

and public health resources of this country in order to improve our

capacity to respond.

While there are differences in the VA and DOD health systems,

these differences do not mean that the two systems cannot be powerful assets to defend our homeland. On the contrary, the experience, the facilities, equipment and personnel of those agencies are

essential to an effective civilian response.

But the potential consequences of the successful attack could be

devastating. In the one exercise known as Dark Winter, Federal

and private officials simulated an attack on a major U.S. City that

was done with smallpox. It ended in chaos and demonstrated our

inability to contain a bioterrorist attack involving an infectious

pathogen.

Potential large-scale national energies that recent events call

upon us to consider point up that despite the success of existing

systems to respond in these emergencies, it is easy to imagine resources being overwhelmed by even a medium-scale weapon of

mass destruction attack. It is vital that the resources of the VA and

DOD systems be included in those efforts so that in the event the

NDMS is activated again, the full capacity of the Nation’s medical

resources may be brought to bear. Thus the Veterans Administration will play an integral part in our homeland defense.

Mr. Chairman, I have specifics that I would like to recommend.

Specifically, I will not go into some of the details that are in my

written testimony, but it is important that we improve drastically

our ability to communicate, that we have adequate detection equipment as is used by DOD and enhanced laboratory capacity. We

must coordinate our surveillance. Oftentimes the only way we will

know that we have been attacked is because symptoms present. We

have to accelerate our training. It is possible. After hearing the discussion today, it should be required. We should ensure rapid access

to stockpiled medications and vaccines. Decontamination facilities

should be provided at all of our hospitals. Every hospital in Israel

has a decontamination facility. And we must enhance our ability to

increase bed capacity, that is called surge capacity, and track the

patients and where they are.

Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to answer any questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Bailey, thank you for your testimony.

[The prepared statement of Dr. Bailey appears on p. 128.]

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to ask Mr. Kasprisin.

STATEMENT OF KENNETH S. KASPRISIN

Mr. KASPRISIN. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of

the subcommittee. I am Kenneth Kasprisin, Assistant Director—

Readiness, Response and Recovery Directorate for the Federal

Emergency Management Agency. It is my pleasure to represent Director Allbaugh at this hearing.

The FEMA mission is to reduce the loss of life and property and

assist in protecting our Nation’s critical infrastructure from all

types of hazards. When disaster strikes, we provide a management

framework and a funding source for response, recovery and mitigation efforts.

October 30, 2002 
49

The Federal Response Plan is the heart of that management

framework. It brings together a team of experts from 26 Federal

departments and agencies and the American Red Cross. It is organized into emergency support functions based on the authorities

and expertise of the agencies as well as the needs of our counterparts at the State and local level.

Our plan is designed to support, not supplant or replace, State

and local response structures. Since 1992, the Federal Response

Plan has been the framework for managing major disasters and

emergencies regardless of cause. It works. It worked in Oklahoma

City, and it worked at the World Trade Center. It works because

it builds upon existing professional expertise, disciplines and relationships. As lead agency for the Federal Response Plan, FEMA

manages the allocation of Federal resources to assist State and

local governments. We validate their needs and provide the right

resources to the right place at the right time.

A Federal department or agency may be able to provide the resources under its own authority and funding. If not, FEMA issues

a mission assignment or reimbursable work order to cover the cost.

These missions usually fall within the scope of 1 of the 12 emergency support functions identified in the plan.

FEMA assigns the mission to the primary agency for the function. In turn, the primary agency may task its supporting agencies

as required. The VA is the supporting agency under emergency

support function number 8, health and medical services. The Department of Health and Human Services, the primary agency for

ESF 8, would subtask VA for health and medical missions as appropriate. I defer to both organizations to discuss their work under

ESF 8 and the national disaster medical system in more detail.

VA is also a supporting agency to the United States Army Corps

of Engineers under ESF 3, public works and engineering; to the

American Red Cross under ESF 6, mass care; and to the General

Services Administration under ESF 7, resource support.

Since FEMA’s concern is resource allocation, we want to have as

large a pool of available resources as we possibly can. We recognize

that as one of the Nation’s largest health care providers, the Department of Veterans Affairs has substantial assets, including medical facilities, medical staff and pharmaceuticals.

Mr. Chairman, you convened this hearing to ask about the role

of the Department of Veterans Affairs in domestic attacks. In essence, they play an important supporting role to four of our ESF

leads. We are pleased to count the VA among the agencies supporting the Federal Response Plan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes my remarks.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much for your testimony, and we

will get to questions momentarily.

[The prepared statement of Federal Emergency Management

Agency appears on p. 144.]

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Krueger from the Red Cross.

STATEMENT OF JAMES KRUEGER

Mr. KRUEGER. Mr. Chairman, members of the Veterans’ Affairs

Committee, I am Jim Krueger. I am executive vice president of the

Red Cross. On behalf of Dr. Healy, our president and CEO, I am

October 30, 2002 
50

honored to be here today to share with you our response to September 11 as well as our interaction with the Veterans Administration

in times of national emergency.

With a presence in almost every community, Red Cross employees and volunteers are among the first on the scene when disaster

strikes, and we were work closely with local responders; first

responders, that is. Immediately following a disaster, before a Presidential declaration is made triggering Federal response and resources, the Red Cross is on site sheltering, feeding victims, their

families, those fleeing from the areas, as well as the first

responders.

The Red Cross has a nationwide capability to help prepare for

and respond to disasters of every kind quickly and routinely. We

can mobilize a trained network of employees and volunteers in

communities throughout the Nation, experts in logistics, nursing,

counseling, spiritual care, communication and sheltering. The

American Red Cross is a trusted independent organization that can

serve as a vital link between all levels of government and the

American public during events of this magnitude.

We are mandated by our congressional charter, and we derive

our authority from this charter that was signed in 1905. This charter directs us to carry out a system of national and international

disaster relief. The Red Cross is also entrusted to serve as the medium of communications between people in the United States and

members of the Armed Forces.

During times of war, the charter defines the role of the American

Red Cross as an auxiliary to the United States Government in the

fulfillment of the Geneva Convention to protect victims of conflict.

Under the Federal response plan, as you just heard, the Red Cross

is the lead agency for emergency support function 6, mass care. We

meet the needs of disaster victims by providing food, clothing, shelter and by operating a family-linking service to report on the status

of those affected and to reunite them with their families. The Red

Cross also supports the Department of Health and Human Services

and EFS 8, and FEMA, of course, is lead agency for information

and planning ESF number 5.

To assist in carrying out our roles, we certainly work with the

eight Federal agencies that are designated as support. American

Red Cross’ response to September 11, we have never faced a disaster of this size, scope or intensity. At New York City, at the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania, 36,000 dedicated disaster relief volunteers have been working tirelessly providing humanitarian assistance. The Red Cross has provided a safe refuge for 4,000 people in

76 shelters. We have served over 7,000 meals to survivors, emergency personnel and stranded travellers in airports across the

country. We have helped 90,000 people by providing crisis grief and

spiritual counseling.

Under our family gift program, the Red Cross has already helped

over 2,100 families with financial support for rent, mortgage transportation and other living expenses. We have committed $100 million to this program and to date, have spent 32 million. We have

positioned blood and blood products in the event that they will be

needed and have accelerated our strategic blood reserve for the

purposes of supporting the military and the Nation in general.

October 30, 2002 
51

And just last Thursday, the Red Cross was asked by the President of the United States to administer America’s fund for Afghan

children where the children of America are encouraged to donate

$1 to be used for delivering food, medicine and other needs and

services to children of Afghanistan. We also have a Web site with

information for the public and it covers all ages, all questions, et

cetera, that people can tap into, because we do take our role and

information sharing seriously. In collaboration with the Veterans

Administration as a support agency to the Red Cross and mass

care, the Veterans Administration has provided variable assistance

with counseling services.

Following a disaster, no matter if it is local, State or Federal,

Veterans Administration’s counselors and members of the VA chaplain’s services have helped provide grief counseling and spiritual

care under the auspices of Red Cross disaster services. VA counselors are currently serving at family assistance centers in New

York City, a unique setting that has been created to help families

who lost loved ones in the World Trade Center buildings. It has become a safe haven for victims and their families as well as a place

for people who lost their jobs and homes to seek assistance.

In addition to providing counselors and chaplains to support the

work of the American Red Cross, the VA has agreed to make available facilities suitable for shelters to provide medical supplies for

use in these facilities. As we continue our planning for future

WMD events, we will work with the Veterans Administration to

identify how and when these facilities may be used and other opportunities for collaboration.

The American Red Cross response in following the weapons of

mass destruction event, planning efforts have been underway for

almost 2 years. Our major planning and preparedness initiatives

are described in my written statement, but I would like to summarize several of those services. In many of these areas, we will need

partners including the Veterans Administration.

First of all, mobilizing volunteer expertise. The Red Cross must

train and recruit volunteers with a wide range of expertise such as

employees of the Veterans Administration to be ready to meet extraordinary demands. We are establishing a mercy battalion, a

corps of medical and other professional volunteers to be deployed

across the country. As envisioned, this corps will supplement the

work of those medical professionals supporting the Department of

Health and Human Services national disaster medical system.

I mentioned earlier our strategic blood reserve. The Red Cross

will also work with public health officials to assist with large scale

emergency vaccinations as needed. We will work with the Centers

of Disease Control to mobilize volunteers to assist in dispensing the

national pharmaceutical stockpile. And we will continue to

strengthen our capacity to deliver counseling services and spiritual

care targeted to meet the needs of people directly and indirectly affected by the WMD event. Today, the Red Cross can mobilize 4,000

licensed trained practical professionals for grief counseling and

spiritual care, and we will build upon this capacity.

And finally, the provision for food, shelter and basic health

support. Biological weapons provide the greatest challenge in terms

of shelter and contaminant since the attacks may not be successOctober 30, 2002 
52

fully detected and identified for days afterwards. Infection of thousands of civilians fleeing or evacuating from attack sites could require weeks to months quarantines. Hospital facilities may be overwhelmed. The Red Cross will not only be asked to provide food and

shelter and basic first aid to those displaced by disaster, but to

augment existing health facilities. Therefore, our mercy battalion

could be critical to fulfill the needs of the trained medical

professionals.

In conclusion, the Red Cross is certainly an important private

sector partner with Congress and the executive branch agencies in

the development of a national strategy. We are an independent humanitarian organization with a history of trust and caring with the

American people as well as being recognized as effective leaders in

responding to disasters, domestically and internationally. To coordinate and carry out this role, we need support from agencies

such as the Veterans Administration. Our more than 100 years of

experience in helping people recover from disasters and coordinating relief will contribute to your leadership efforts to address this

major national security issue. Thank you for including us in this

important hearing.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Krueger appears on p. 133.]

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you very much for your good work and

for your testimony. I would like to ask Ms. Everett if she could

close out the statements.

STATEMENT OF ANNIE W. EVERETT

Ms. EVERETT. Thank you, Chairman Smith. Chairman Smith and

members of the Committee, thank you for inviting the General

Services Administration to this hearing and for allowing me to testify. I am pleased to appear before you today to discuss with you

the role and responsibilities of the General Services Administration

in preparing for and responding to domestic disasters and national

security emergencies. GSA is assigned specific domestic and national security emergency preparedness responsibilities under executive orders 12656 and 12472. The key responsibilities included are

to: number 1, provide rapid and efficient logistical support and telecommunications; number 2, assist client agencies in their recovery;

number 3, provide support to those Federal agencies assisting victims of disaster or emergencies; and number 4, ensure the continuity of GSA operations.

These responsibilities are the same whether they are peacetime

or wartime emergencies. Unfortunately, on September 11, GSA had

our most challenging experience yet in carrying out these responsibilities. GSA has also been asked to comment on its interaction

with the Department of Veterans Affairs in times of national emergency. While the Department of Veterans Affairs has responsibility

for the acquisition of medical equipment and supplies pursuant to

a delegation of procurement authority, GSA is available to provide

whatever assistance the Department of Veterans Affairs or any

other Federal agency may need to ensure the provision of medical

equipment and supplies during national emergencies.

In the immediate aftermath of the terrible terrorist attacks in

New York City and the Washington, DC Area, staff from across

GSA, in accordance with our continuity of operations plans, immeOctober 30, 2002 
53

diately activated our New York region COOP. Our associates literally worked around the clock to produce logistical miracles within

a matter of days. In lower Manhattan, many buildings that had

been leased by GSA for occupancy by Federal agencies were heavily

damaged or destroyed. For example, one major World Trade Center

low rise located at the base of the Twin Towers and occupied by

the U.S. Customs Service was completely destroyed.

In addition, 6 major federally-owned GSA buildings in lower

Manhattan were closed due to loss of power, loss of telecommunications in their proximity to the World Trade Center. In the Washington, DC Area, officials at the Department of Defense asked GSA

to locate, make ready for occupancy and totally equip nearly

850,000 square feet of space. These facilities were needed to provide a place for DOD employees to relocate from many areas within

the Pentagon. By September 17, six of GSA’s lower Manhattan federally-owned buildings were reopened for essential personnel of the

tenant agencies.

By the same date, GSA had negotiated 14 leases totaling approximately 1.3 million square feet of space in New York City and

New Jersey. This includes space acquired to house FEMA operations and several displaced agencies. An additional nine sites for

a total of approximately 700,000 square feet are being acquired for

other tenant agencies that have been displaced or need additional

space as a result of the tragic events of September 11. Remarkably,

by September 17, GSA had also located, outfitted and prepared for

occupancy 850,000 square feet of space for Department of Defense

in northern Virginia. Officers from the Federal Protective Service

immediately began helping evacuate the buildings in New York

City and helping people to safety.

Within 2 hours of the first collision, GSA had set up an emergency command center in New York to begin providing affected

agencies with the supplies and services needed to restore operations. In total, GSA has been called to provide nearly 3 million

square feet of replacement space in New York, New Jersey and Virginia along with furniture, telecommunication systems, computers

and all other items that are needed in today’s office environment.

When GSA briefed representatives of all the agencies being supported in New York, our representatives received widespread

praise and the warm applause of heartfelt appreciation. A DOD official summed GSA’s ability to anticipate its needs by stating that

GSA is 41⁄2 hours ahead of anything we can think of. In my opinion, Mr. Chairman, the GSA associates who produced those results

are heroes in every sense of the word. I am proud of them.

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement and I will be glad

to answer any questions you and the committee may have.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Everett appears on p. 139.]

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Everett, thank you very much for your testimony. I would like to ask, I think mostly Dr. Chu and Dr. Bailey

this first question. How has the Department of Defense shared the

benefits it has gleaned and garnered from research into weapons

of mass destruction? Obviously, that information is used for the

benefit of our troops as it ought to be, but is it shared with FEMA?

Is it shared with the VA and all the other disparate agencies of

government so that it is usable?

October 30, 2002 
54

Dr. CHU. That certainly is our intent, subject to the limits of

classification. I think it is also important to emphasize the benefit

of sharing this knowledge with the civil medical system as far as

domestic attacks of the kinds we just sustained are concerned. As

Mr. Allen’s testimony emphasized, and I think FEMA emphasized

in its presentation, they are the first responders, and it is critical

that they have the knowledge they need to be able to deal with

those situations.

The CHAIRMAN. You said that is your intent. Has it been the

practice of Department of Defense to do so?

Dr. CHU. Yes. I am sorry, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Bailey.

Dr. BAILEY. There are many different ways in which what we

have done—our country has done in biowarfare can be applied directly to homeland defense. You can imagine DOD is the agency

that has already encountered exactly what it is that we are concerned about. So their efforts to develop systems of pretreatment,

premedications, vaccines, autoinjectors in the case of chemical warfare, detectors that will let us know when there, in fact, are nerve

gas or biologic agents in the area. All of these things are things

that, at this point unfortunately, I think America is going to have

to think about as they go forward in applying that, because the

technology is there, because of the United States military, I think

is going to make us safer.

The CHAIRMAN. On your watch, was it your experience that this

information was shared?

Dr. BAILEY. I know that many times there were sharing going on

among the agencies. And some of that was through the kinds of

wargaming and simulation of exercises that you heard about where

we brought all of the agencies together and absolutely shared the

ways in which we would cope with those weapons of mass destruction.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me just ask, Dr. Bailey, in your statement,

you point out that there are significant inadequacies with regards

to our response. And then you point out—you have a number of

bullet points, then you go through that list, many of which are not

in place now. I asked earlier of the VA how many decontamination

facilities they had at their hospitals. And I am sure we will get

back a response shortly. I am not even sure—I am sure members

of the committee may be wondering as well what is exactly a decontamination unit, how much does it cost and how many do we

have—how many does the Department of Defense have?

Dr. BAILEY. Well, the trouble is we don’t have but a handful. We

don’t have them at military facilities or VA facilities, and certainly

not in the private sector. But as I indicated, there are places in this

country where they have been under the same circumstances we

find ourselves in now where they have now prepared by having

decon centers.

And even though that is something we are going to have to undertake, which sounds expensive, for one, the fact is it is not very

expensive. You are talking about an area that doesn’t mean building a wing on the hospital. It means putting up a structure big

enough to allow you to essentially wash down, unclothe and reclothe in a safe way those who have been contaminated by either

October 30, 2002 
55

a biologic or chemical agent. And most often, it is done with water

and Clorox.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me just ask Mr. Kasprisin, in light of the

2000 Gilmore report to Congress, can you tell us why the Federal

Government has not taken more steps to beef up its weapons of

mass destruction preparedness? If my understanding is correct, the

Noble Training Center in Fort McClellan in Alabama is the only

federally-funded WMD program.

Mr. KASPRISIN. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I think the needs are well

understood. I think it has been a continual matter balancing those

needs with the available resources. Frankly, I am not sure that the

priorities on this event prior to September 11 are the same as they

are now. I would submit to you that the emphasis on that with

what has taken place in the supplemental as well as future needs

certainly places significant attention on that. But there will still remain a challenge to balance those needs with the available

resources.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Krueger, you earlier talked about the 4,000

grief counselors and obviously the Red Cross does a great job in an

emergency situation. Can you, perhaps, differentiate or give us the

difference between post-traumatic stress, which is usually—my understanding is that after the Oklahoma City event, that 6 months

later was when the real manifestation of post-traumatic stress disorder began to manifest as opposed to grief counseling, which

might occur much earlier. And how does your agency work with the

VA? Has FEMA looked to the VA for its expertise in the post-traumatic stress disorder? I mean, they have personnel, as you know,

that are just exemplarily qualified.

Mr. KRUEGER. Well, in our experience, certainly after the Oklahoma City bombing, is exactly what you were saying and counseling goes on today. And I really—the VA system has been a tremendous resource for us in that way. And when you look at the placement across the country and the different ways it was accessed, it

continues to be an absolute vital resource to us. And we really see

that this is a whole area. And what is really interesting in this disaster, I think, has been the spiritual counseling in this early phase,

which is also a resource from the VA hospital. And it is just the

grieving and mourning period has been tremendous and the memorial services at the sites and aspects like this. But you are right.

Now, and what comes after this and what comes, as you say, 6

months later, a year later and different occasions crop up where

these things get very difficult.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any partnering between the Red Cross

and the VA?

Mr. KRUEGER. Yes. We have a statement of understanding. And

all of the things that I had mentioned are in that SOU that we

can—that we certainly work together and access.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me just—not only are we concerned about

the veterans, but obviously, we are worried about anyone else who

is suffering. And I know all of you feel that way. One often overlooked group of people—and I just say this for the record—are the

pilots and the flight attendants. Their modus operandi—I know

this because my brother is a 757 captain, and a former fighter pilot

before going with the airlines, and he has told me that the impact

October 30, 2002 
56

on the flight attendants and the pilots has been very severe. He

went right back up and his wife who is a flight attendant had a

difficult time.

And to some extent—and I say this for all concerned, they have

been left out of—I mean, now they will fight. But before, it was fly

them to Cuba or take them wherever it is that you need to take

them because you want to keep the safety of your passengers at the

optimum level. It seems to me that is a group that might have to

be looked at that had been largely left out. Today, if it were to happen, they would fight and go down with the ship. But then on September 11, their FAA, as well as airlines’ restrictions or guidance,

if you will, was not to take that kind of action because of the risk

to the passengers. So I think they have a peculiar and very special

need in all this.

Mr. KRUEGER. And our relationship with the National Safety

Board and so forth, where we respond as our agreement is to all

air crashes, has a system built into it that deals with the same

mental health and psychosocial issues with the airline people as

well as the passengers and other people affected.

So that is something—and was very unique, of course, at this

point in time because of the number of crashes involved. But, yes,

we definitely work with the pilots and the flight attendants with

those issues.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me just ask, Mr. Kasprisin, if you could. You

heard much in the earlier testimony, and I know you surely read

the GAO reports about how the VA has significantly beefed up its

ability to deal with the warehousing of vaccines and the like—

stockpiling. In your view, has the VA done a good job with regards

to that component?

Mr. KASPRISIN. I wouldn’t look at that strictly in isolation, the

collective package of being able to identify the problem and what

resources are needed. In that extent, we are very reliant upon the

States to identify the needs for particular incidents, and in that

case, to rely on Health and Human Services to identify the best

means of doing that. But from all indications that I have seen, the

VA has been very forthright and forthcoming in attempting to address those previous issues.

The CHAIRMAN. Just ask Ms. Everett, how quickly do you think

the GSA could procure space and equipment to set up decontamination units in the aftermath of an unconventional attack?

Ms. EVERETT. There are a number of—it depends—kinds of statements I would have to make. It would depend on the amount of

space, depend upon the area of the space. But I do know with what

just happened on September 11, our office in New York was able

to acquire space in a very short time so were we here in the Washington, DC Area. So it depends on the amount of space that is in

question that is the best answer I can give at this point.

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate that.

Dr. Chu, if I could, has DOD evaluated VA’s periodic estimates

of its contingency bed availability? Is it available beds you are interested in, or should it be the availability of health care providers

that we should be interested in?

Dr. CHU. The Department and VA together conduct periodic exercises to test this system. The point of the exercise is exactly to

October 30, 2002 
57

the conclusion of your question. What matters is not just the physical bed, but a bed staffed with the appropriate personnel, et

cetera, so you can take care of the patient. And those are the numbers that we report in our system. And we started looking at that

on an ongoing basis right after the events of September 11.

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Carson.

Ms. CARSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Number 1,

can I ask that any questions we are not able to ask here be submitted for the record?

The CHAIRMAN. Sure.

Ms. CARSON. I know I would like to ask Dr. Chu a quick question

and that is, since the Gulf War, the relationship of active duty and

reserve components has evolved into more of a total force concept.

During the last decade, Reserve Components have been used in

greater frequency and interchangeability. Because a large number

of reserves are employed by the VA, these people can be activated

at any time when the VA’s mission expands, diluting staffing ratios

to maintain the contingency beds. What have the DOD and the VA

done, in what we would assume to be many joint planning sessions,

to resolve the impact of reserve activation diminishing medical

staffing capability? If it takes you too long to answer that, you can

submit that for the record.

Dr. CHU. I can answer promptly here, ma’am. This is an issue

that affects all Federal agencies. Every agency is periodically

invited to identify essential or key personnel. Those personnel, if

so identified, are taken out of ready reserve units and put in a different status so that they are not subject to call up in an

emergency.

We also recognize that the nature of this emergency is different

from many of the emergencies agencies had anticipated when they

conducted these reviews, the FAA being case in point. So we have

offered to work with each agency to look at, on a case-by-case basis,

whether any particular person is so irreplaceable that he or she

should be exempted, notwithstanding the failure to designate an

individual earlier as a key or essential person, or whether that person’s call-up should be deferred for a short period of time to permit

the training and preparation of a replacement person for that particular post.

But we have a system in place that allows the agency in advance, the VA included, to say this person is key or essential and

should be exempted from call-up. That does mean the individual

cannot serve in a ready reserve unit, however. They must move to

a different status.

Mr. BUYER. Will the gentlelady yield?

Ms. CARSON. I will yield.

Mr. BUYER. Dr. Chu, in my own opinion, I don’t believe that was

very responsive to Ms. Carson’s question, because she is asking basically the worst case scenario—I am putting words in your mouth,

Ms. Carson—but if, in fact, you have to go to a national disaster

and now we are talking about that which is robust, we know how

to plan if you do worst case scenario. Your answer was sort of in

the present contingency. What happens in worst case scenario? You

are not going to say well, the VA needs them nationally and therefore they are going to be nondeployable assets.

October 30, 2002 
58

Dr. CHU. I don’t think I said that, sir.

Mr. BUYER. No. No. That is what I am saying you wouldn’t be

saying.

Dr. CHU. I think what I said is that we have a baseline policy,

which is, if the individual is essential or key, he or she may be exempted from call-up. That is an agency choice. But it also means

that the individual cannot participate in a ready reserve unit.

Mr. BUYER. Oh, gosh. Time out. Time out. If you go with Ms.

Carson’s scenario here, if you go with the worst case scenario and

you have got docs that have to be activated in the military, and

now you can’t backfill because we already have a medical shortage,

and if it is a national disaster—national priority first, does that

mean—let me presuppose here—does that mean then that you

would call out the military medical retirees into position?

Dr. CHU. It might. If I could finish my answer to your question,

sir, we have, in response to this particular event, recognizing that

each emergency may be somewhat different, implemented a process

in which we look at whether it is sensible to call up those individuals or not—that is the bottom line. And so it is just not mechanistic in character. We look at the specifics of each situation, because

each emergency will demand a different set of skills from the country as a whole and put stresses on different agencies that might

not have been anticipated beforehand.

I don’t wish to be too openhanded about this, however. It doesn’t

mean that we are suddenly going to say if your agency finds it inconvenient for you to be called, you are exempted. The question is,

is there a real requirement here that cannot, as you suggest, sir,

cannot be met in some other way?

Ms. CARSON. Will you yield back my time?

Mr. BUYER. I yield back.

Ms. CARSON. One quick question of Dr. Sue Bailey. Your testimony mentions, exercise Dark Winter. This exercise demonstrated

a simulated attack on a major city with smallpox. You state that

it ended in chaos and demonstrated our inability to contain a bioterrorist attack involving an infectious pathogen. What happened

in that exercise and what could be done to make our response more

effective for that type of a threat? You know, everyday now—you

are scared to go to bed because you might have anthrax in your

bed. That is an extreme, but what happens?

Dr. BAILEY. Well, it is not an extreme. Let me just say that I

think anyone who is exposed to anthrax and picks up the form we

are seeing, mostly the cutaneous, that is really treatable. But if you

take Dark Winter and put it into real terms here today, if it is inhalation anthrax, that is the one where you get into huge problems

if it were an aerial attack.

Now the good news there is, it is really hard to do that aerial

attack. It has been tried by terrorists before and never done successfully. And it is really hard to get inhalation anthrax. I think

we can take Dark Winter again unfortunately into our real world

here. That was a simulated attack using smallpox. Let us just

imagine, suppose Mr. Stevens had had smallpox; that we had been

attacked with smallpox or plague, something that was infectious.

And that is what Dark Winter showed us. That even though, for

instance, smallpox only kills 30 percent of those it infects versus

October 30, 2002 
59

the 90 or 95 percent from inhalation anthrax, the fact is that each

one of those individuals goes on to continue to infect others so that

you can end up literally with a worldwide epidemic. So imagine,

again, either Florida or New York having been an infectious agent

and we can see that Dark Winter would be very real and we would

be overwhelmed.

Ms. CARSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Don’t forget

I am going to submit questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Buyer.

Mr. BUYER. Dr. Bailey, nice to see you. Now that you are on the

outside looking in, your expertise and your candor will be very important to us. What advice would you give to Governor Ridge as he

takes on these new responsibilities, I mean, about the VA and

duty’s role today? How would you combat terrorism in this new

world order as you provide defense to a Nation and then, i.e., the

health delivery system?

Dr. BAILEY. First of all, I suggest he not start from scratch. We

all know in the government that we tend to bring in a new group

or start a new agency or in this case, plan for another war-like situation or we call it that. And I think that there is tremendous expertise out there. What we have done on the battlefield, that those

efforts to protect our troops against biowarfare can be directly applied to the homeland if we do it right. And if we look at the incredible private health care system that we have and combine with

that the system that is unknown to the world—I mean, we have

hospitals in the VA and DOD systems sprinkled across the country.

And here, what he really needs to do, he needs to connect all of

those systems. We have to be able to communicate. We got to have

surveillance because in the case of infectious agents, we are not

going to know we have been attacked until people demonstrate

those symptoms. So it is really surveillance and communication

and coordinating all of those assets that we have and they are

considerable.

Mr. BUYER. Dr. Chu, I asked the other panel questions about the

lessons learned from the Gulf War. I asked the Secretary in particular, so I will give you an opportunity to think about that. As

we have had soldiers deployed from the 10th Mountain Division to

Uzbekistan and the 101st next, and Special Forces on the ground,

what medical baseline was done to help us in case we have claims

that come to the VA?

Dr. CHU. As the VA witnesses indicated, we have substantially

improved the baseline data we take on all individuals. So that

baseline, as it is normally collected from them in their annual

physicals, for example, already exists. The additional step, and as

you know from the Gulf War, this was a point of our greatest

weakness, is to direct all the military departments to track by individual where everyone is actually assigned during the course of

these operations.

The problem, as you know, that arose from the Gulf War situation, is that while we knew the units were present, we didn’t always have accurate rosters, or who was in that unit, and therefore

were unable to match a person’s participation in Desert Shield,

Desert Storm with his or her actual locations and therefore, the

various situations to which he or she may have been exposed.

October 30, 2002 
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So we have taken the first steps in doing that. I don’t want to

pretend that it is perfect, but we are committed to try to learn from

that lesson of the past and give ourselves a much better situation

in terms of assessing health effects from these deployments this

time around.

Mr. BUYER. Any vaccines other than normal regimes for deployments being given to soldiers that are headed to this area of the

world?

Dr. CHU. Not anything different than we were doing before.

Mr. BUYER. All right.

Ms. CARSON. Would you yield, Congressman Buyer? Smallpox

vaccine, there is a lot of debate about that. Wasn’t there a time

that everybody had to be vaccinated for smallpox?

Dr. CHU. Yes, ma’am. And the military continued that regime for

the longest period of time until, if I recollect correctly, the late

1980s. And we actually have been in conversation with, to your

question, Mr. Buyer, HHS, about—should we decide that smallpox

vaccination is required—about usage of the limited national stockpile for that purpose. But we have not taken that decision at this

juncture.

Ms. CARSON. Yield back.

Mr. BUYER. I then have to read between the lines. When you say

we have not made this decision at this juncture, then obviously, the

threat does—does not go to a particular level that would warrant

the shots be given to military force.

Dr. CHU. No, sir. Not at this time.

Mr. BUYER. Now let me go to the question that Mr. Filner was

asking earlier. Let me ask this. I will try to jump into his vein of

thought if I can follow the logic. If Health and Human Services is

making proposals for vaccines for smallpox and to prepare those

stockpiles, is that really necessary if DOD is telling us that the

threat level out there is not one that would warrant even the vaccination of our own soldiers? In other words, are we overreacting

there on a health side?

Dr. CHU. Let me emphasize, I am not a clinician. So let me summarize what I understand to be the advice of the Nation’s best clinicians on this point, which is that old adage: an ounce of prevention can be worth a pound of cure. My understanding of HHS’s position is it wants to be ready should the threat or the situation, if

any, changes. We don’t expect it to at this juncture. But their job—

just as their job was to assemble the stockpile of antibiotics that

are now so useful—it is to be prepared. And so they have been

looking at both the usage of the current stockpiled vaccine and at

the accelerated acquisition, which was already underway before

September 11, I should emphasize—even more accelerated acquisition of additional vaccine.

Mr. BUYER. Do you know the shelf life?

Dr. CHU. No, sir.

Mr. BUYER. Dr. Bailey?

Dr. BAILEY. Of smallpox? No, but I would like to add something

to your question. The real issue here with smallpox is that there

is some concern, as we know, even though the World Health Organization declared the disease eradicated in 1980, there were two repositories where it was to be kept under lock and key—the virus

October 30, 2002 
61

itself. And one is here at CDC and one was in Russia. And as we

all know, there is some concern that some of that may, in fact, may

not be well contained. I am not saying that the risk is very high—

but the probability is very high, but the risk is incredibly high. And

the good news out of this would be if we had the vaccine—because

no one in America and virtually no one anymore is protected

against it, and it could literally be the scurge of the earth—the fact

is, though, if there were an outbreak, we could prevent the Dark

Winter—we could contain it to—to a large extent, if we got to it

quickly.

Again, if we had detection capability, good surveillance and good

communication between Federal, State and local and knew, in fact,

that it happened, because within 7 days of a smallpox outbreak, if

you get the vaccine, you can prevent the disease. It is a longer incubation period and you got about a week in order to get that vaccine moved to where you need it.

Right now, we have 7 to 15 million doses. We would like to see

40 million. And even that may be rapidly increasing. And it is really just a real protection against the possibility of a worldwide devastating epidemic.

Mr. BUYER. Mr. Chairman, I would like extend my compliments

to Dr. Bailey. When she was formerly at the Pentagon in her civilian leadership position, she helped bring on the anthrax program

on line which very controversial at the time. And the Nation wasn’t

prepared to receive that program. And I think she did a good job

working with General Zinni, who understood the threat, along with

our CIA and other intelligence to actually inoculate the force. And

she is to be complimented. And I thank you for having her as a witness here today.

And Mr. Chairman, I know that you are preparing some legislation on bioterrorism preparedness. I would like to work with you

as you prepare that legislation. In particular, I think it is important that if, in fact, we are going to have these—continue these

great arrangements between DOD and the VA, doctors and their

expertise with regard to not only identification, but treatment of a

biological or chemical agent, that at our teaching hospitals, that we

improve that relationship and make it part of the curriculum that

we actually are—these doctors are taught how to recognize these

things. Do you think that would be helpful? If you don’t think it

would be helpful, tell me.

Dr. Bailey.?

Dr. BAILEY. It absolutely would be helpful. I think there is no

way that people today are going to recognize most of these symptoms. They can pick them out of a multiple choice, as we all said,

back in medical school, but we haven’t seen them.

So today, the uses, as you know, does require it being taught.

And we require it because we want to protect our forces in the military. But the fact is, we need to protect our forces across the board,

and the only way to be able to recognize it so you can see a trend

developing and know you have been attacked.

Mr. BUYER. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. It is worth noting that the Veterans’ Affairs

Committee is fortunate to have Mr. Buyer, who used to be the subcommittee chairman of the Military Personnel Committee of the

October 30, 2002 
62

Armed Services Committee. Now he runs our Oversight and Investigations Committee. So that kind of background and hands-on

knowledge and the legislation that you have worked through Congress is very helpful, and what we do now at the VA. So I do thank

you for that.

I do have one final question I would like to pose to Dr. Chu.

After the attacks in New York, thousands of National Guardsmen

were activated by the governor, as you well know. The VA agreed

to provide health care to all of those troops even though they had

not been federalized. Should this arrangement be made more formal and authorized in advance? Do we need to go back to the

drawing board on that?

Dr. CHU. I think I would like to reflect on that before I answer.

The CHAIRMAN. I do have one final question for Dr. Bailey, if I

could. You mentioned, again, in your recommendations the importance of detection. And I think one of my chief of staff’s brother

worked at Merrill Lynch and when the World Trade Center got hit,

there was about a 15-minute scare where someone said it was a

chemical attack. And he said he has never known such terror as

during that 15-minute time frame. Even the emergency responders—first responders were halted in their tracks, according to this

gentleman. It raises the question about detection.

Obviously, we can’t have detection for all things all times everywhere. But we can particularly, in some instances, have some level

of detection for certain chemical and biological, and certainly nuclear. What is the state of affairs in that area, if you could?

Dr. BAILEY. Again, the military has done incredible work over

the years to develop this detection system. And you are right, we

can’t apply that all across America, but it could be in this building,

could be in the Capitol. Could be at Disney World. Could be at the

stadium. It could be in any major corporations in certain areas

where a lot of people would gather that could be targeted. We could

select where we would want to deploy those kinds of detectors.

There is a bread box detector, a DNA detector that detects anthrax.

There have been things—the portal shield that has been used on

the battle field for years.

So, in fact, we have the capability, and I think we need to put

a lot of research effort in that direction and step up the technology

because at this point, some of these would take to develop further

so that you could really determine what was in the air of large—

in a large arena that would take several years to develop. We can

step that up if we see how helpful that could be.

The CHAIRMAN. I do appreciate that because it seems to me that

there was a time when smoke detectors and something as commonplace as that were far and few between, and now everyone has

smoke detectors. I am not going to suggest every house will have

this kind of detection ability. But as you pointed out, in very strategically located areas, it could make the difference between life and

death.

Dr. BAILEY. Let me just add on behalf of our first responders, I

do think that is one of the first things we need do. We need to get

them the appropriate medications. If I were a first responder, I

would want to have had, for instance, the anthrax vaccine. I would

want to have whatever vaccines are available that make sense,

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given the risk as it is estimated. There is also a badge-size chemical detector that is—can detect again those kinds of things. I am

not saying which one it could detect, but there are things that very

soon would be able to warn a first responder if he goes into the

subway that would allow him to use the other things we use on the

battle field, which are autoinjectors to counteract the effect, say, of

a nerve gas. So there is much we can do, but it is going to take

time. But I think we can, given all of our resources, plan for this.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask Mr. Kasprisin, on whose shoulders

does that fall? Is it right now left to the discretion of localities or

State governments, or is there some kind of coordinating response

that FEMA does or is it something that Tom Ridge and his new

agency will have to, you know, grapple with?

Mr. KASPRISIN. I think it is a combination of all the above. The

first—and Dr. Bailey hit it, you identify the need. And I think the

need is out there now. Second is you identify what resources you

are going to respond with, at the Federal, the State and the local

level. And she is absolutely right about what we need at some of

the local levels with first responders. I think there is a great deal

of discussion about it at the State and Federal level on which direction that is going to go.

The CHAIRMAN. Would any of you like to add anything? I know

it has been a long day and I do appreciate your patience waiting

to the third panel. If not, I would like to thank you on behalf of

the committee for your expert testimony and for your great work

on behalf of our American citizens and look forward to working

with you. Hearing is adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 5:40 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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SEPTEMBER 18, 2001.

Hon. ANTHONY J. PRINCIPI,

The Secretary of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs,

Washington, DC.

DEAR SECRETARY PRINCIPI: I am writing to you today with a matter of utmost national urgency. Under Public Law 97–174 the United States Department of Veterans

Affairs (VA) is required to provide backup medical care support for the United

States Department of Defense (DoD) during war or national emergency. Clearly,

such a time is upon us.

As you may know, during the Gulf War, VA was unnecessarily slow in preparing

to fulfill its responsibilities to provide medical care to U.S. military forces, despite

the fact that VA had six months to prepare. Additionally, VA managers failed to

take into account the large number of VA employees who were members of the

Guard or Reserve components recalled to active duty during the action. As a result,

VA did not accurately anticipate the number and quantity of VA medical facility

beds that would ultimately be needed to treat potential casualties.

As a member of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs and as someone who represents a state with a large active duty military, this is an especially critical issue

for my constituents. Our men and women in the armed services deserve prompt,

quality medical care. I am confident that under your leadership we will have a better-organized and efficient system for any U.S. casualties as a result of this conflict.

If there is anything that I can do to assist you during this critical time for our

nation, please do not hesitate to contact me. I stand ready to work with you.

Very truly yours,

TOM UDALL,

Member of Congress

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WRITTEN COMMITTEE QUESTIONS AND THEIR RESPONSES

CHAIRMAN SMITH TO DR. CHU, UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (PERSONNEL AND

READINESS)

Question: I do have one final question I would like to pose to Dr. Chu. After the

attacks in New York, thousands of National Guardsmen were activated by the governor, as you well know. The VA agreed to provide health care to all of those troops

even though they had not been federalized. Should this arrangement be made formal and authorized in advance? Do we need to go back to the drawing board on

that?

Answer: In my testimony, I emphasized the great success of both our systems in

responding to the horrible events of September 11, 2001. In my view, there is ample

legislative authority for each of our health care systems to tailor the delivery of care

to meet the unique medical needs of such events. We are required by law to conduct

a joint annual review of our contingency plans and update them, as necessary.

These periodic reassessments enable us to apply any lessons learned from situations, such as last September’s, to our future planning and modify our operational

relationships where appropriate.

Æ

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