From: Robert Berman [mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:53 PM

To: Bob Smith

Cc: 'Robert Berman'; 'Kenneth Winder'; 'Richard Parker'; phopkinson@hvolt.com; Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.co m; adelaski@standardsasap.org; ahofmann@publicpower.org; Aris Marantan; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; august.esch@gm ail.com; Brian Coffey; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; cabolduc@lbl.gov; Caitlin Johnson; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; ch arlied@uus.org; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; clark.silcox@nema.org; cstephen s@neea.org; Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; dave.millure@metglas.com; DYoung@energy-solution.com; eduardorobles@eaton. com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; gbf1@pge.com; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; greg.coulter405 @gmail.com; James.Lass@cleco.com; Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov; Jeremiah.Freeman@e e.doe.gov; jerry.corkran @cooperindustries.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; Jim.creevy@nema.org; Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov; jmauer@standardsasap.org; john.caskey@nema.org; john.cymb alsky@ee.doe.gov; jrossetti@mlgw.org; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net; mark.stoer ing@xcelenergy.com; Matthew Nardotti; maxinesavitz@aol.com; mhyland@appanet.org ; Michael Rivest; mwaltner@nrdc.org; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; phil@pjharter.com; pkumar@p ublicpower.org; Raymond. Polinski@atimetals.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com; rick.anderso n@faypwc.com; robert.saint@nreca.coop; robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov; rroy@nrdc.org ; ScottB@lvmetals.com; snadel@aceee.org; srosenstock@eei.org; tballo@earthjustice.org; Te ckman@nwcouncil.org; thomas.patzner@us.schneiderelectric.com; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; Zhimei Luo; 'Jerry Hodge' Subject: Re: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole



### Bob,

Utility practices are what they are. Those practices must be taken as a given. It is important to understand what those practices ar e, under what circumstances, a nd to what extent they may differ from one utility to the next. Similarly, joint pole associations provide a cost sharing mechanism that also may differ from associati on to association. All of that information is important to developing an assessment of pole ex pense related to additional transformer weight.



### Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

www.BermanEconomics.com

1915 Grand Court

Vienna, VA 22182

703

‐ 281

‐ 0490

703

‐ 655

‐ 8398 (cell)
BermanEconomics@gmail.com

### On Oct 20, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Bob Smith wrote:

Robert:

I don’t know why you want to revisit all the technical aspects associated with installing heavier

transformers on utility poles. The electric utilities have stated that they are not going to risk injury to personnel or property by placing significantly heavier transformers on utility poles. You are somewhat
right about vertical weight; bu t don’t forget about projected area and high wind.

Bruce Hirsh got the point, and stated his understanding very well.

I hope you can accept the fact that heavier and bigger pole transformers

, resulting from higher
efficiency standards, will in many cases cause additional pole expense for reasons well discussed earlier.

Thanks,

Bob Smith, PE Product Manager

Federal Pacific 601 Old Airport Road Bristol, VA 24201

TEL: (276) 645-8836

FAX: (276) 645-8212
CELL: (276) 591-6143

Email: bsmith@federalpacific.com

The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain informa tion that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable la w. If you have received this message in error, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information. Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and completely delete the original message from your system.

From: Robert Berman [ mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com ]

Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:15 PM

To: Bob Smith

Cc: 'Robert Berman'; 'Kenneth Winder'; 'Richard
Parker'; phopkinson@hvolt.com ; Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com ; adelaski@standardsasap.org ; ahofmann@publicpower.org ; amarantan@navigant.com ; artrosenfeld@gmail.com ; august.esch@gmail.com ; b rian.coffey@navigant.com ; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com ; cabolduc@lbl.gov ; Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com ; c arlos.gaytan@ge.com ; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com ; chad.kennedy@us.schneiderelectric.com ; charlied@uus.org ; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com ; clark.silcox@nema.org ; cstephens@neea.

org ; Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov ; dave.millure@metglas.com ; DYoung@energysolution.com ; eduardorobles@eaton.com ; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com ; gbf1@pge.com ; gjrosenquist@lbl.g

ov ; greg.coulter405@gmail.com ; James.Lass@cleco.com ; Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov ; Jeremiah.Free man@ee.doe.gov ; jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com ; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com ; Jim.creevy@nema.or

g ; Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov ; jmauer@standardsasap.org ; john.caskey@nema.org ; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.

gov ; jrossetti@mlgw.org ; kcoughlin@lbl.gov ; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net ; mark.stoering@xcelenergy.c

om ; matthew.nardotti@navigant.com ; maxinesavitz@aol.com ; mhyland@appanet.org ; mrivest@navigant.

com ; mwaltner@nrdc.org ; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com ; phil@pjharter.com ; pkumar@publicpower.org ; Raymo

nd.Polinski@atimetals.com ; rgreeson@federalpacific.com ; rick.anderson@faypwc.com ; robert.saint@nrec

a.coop ; robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov ; rroy@nrdc.org ; ScottB@lvmetals.com ; snadel@aceee.org ; srosen stock@eei.org ; tballo@earthjustice.org ; Teckman@nwcouncil.org ; thomas.patzner@us.schneiderelectric.com ; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com ; zhimei.luo@navigant.com ; 'Jerry Hodge' Subject: Re: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole



### Bob,

It's not who shares the cost, it's that the cost is shared. There are two piec es to this. First, the payment by the utility (and thus th e ratepayer) is 1/3 of the total cost (in the case of a 3-way share, less if others such as alarm companies ar e also using the pole). S econd, on a cost-causative basis, and from a social perspectiv e, it's not simply the weight of the transformer, but the total weight of all fixtures / uses. Mo reover, to the extent that the su e applies horizontal stress (i.e., lines, etc.) rather than simply vertical weight , the problem is substant ially greater. (See for example RUS Bulletin 1724E-150. ) For example, three transformers mounted triangularly, as in many commercial areas, may not require any pole replacement because all weight is vertical. Some large California utilities have repo rted that they would have no problem with the extra transformer weight, if that was the only th ing that was on the pole. So, for our purposes, I believe that the easiest approach to the analysis is to follow the approach that the joint pole associations follow; possibly adjusted for any information we might have about the likelihood that the transformers may be mounted in a group of three versus individually.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

www.BermanEconomics.com

1915 Grand Court
Vienna, VA 22182

703-281-0490 703-655-8398 (cell) BermanEconomics@gmail.com

### On Oct 20, 2011, at 11:32 AM, Bob Smith wrote:

Robert:

I am confused, in our analysis what possible difference does it make who shares the cost?

Thank you,

Bob Smith, PE Product Manager

Federal Pacific 601 Old Airport Road Bristol, VA 24201

TEL: (276) 645-8836

FAX: (276) 645-8212
CELL: (276) 591-6143

Email: bsmith@federalpacific.com

The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain informa tion that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable la w. If you have received this message in error, you are prohibited from copying, distributing, or using the information. Please contact the sender immediately by return e-mail and completely delete the original message from your system.

From: Robert Berman [ mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com ]

Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:22 AM

To: Jerry Hodge

Cc: Kenneth Winder; Richard
Parker; phopkinson@hvolt.com ; Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com ; adelaski@standardsasap.org ; ahof mann@publicpower.org ; amarantan@navigant.com ; artrosenfeld@gmail.com ; august.esch@gmail.com ; B ermanEconomics@gmail.com ; brian.coffey@navigant.com ; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com ; bsmith@federalpacif

ic.com ; cabolduc@lbl.gov ; Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com ; carlos.gaytan@ge.com ; carlosgsiqueiros@eato

n.com ; chad.kennedy@us.schneiderelectric.com ; charlied@uus.org ; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com ; clark.silcox@nema.org ; cstephens@neea.

org ; Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov ; dave.millure@metglas.com ; DYoung@energysolution.com ; eduardorobles@eaton.com ; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com ; gbf1@pge.com ; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov ; greg.coulter405@gmail.com ; James.Lass@cleco.com ; Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov ; Jeremiah.Free man@ee.doe.gov ; jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com ; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com ; Jim.creevy@nema.or

g ; Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov ; jmauer@standardsasap.org ; john.caskey@nema.org ; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.

gov ; jrossetti@mlgw.org ; kcoughlin@lbl.gov ; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net ; mark.stoering@xcelenergy.c

om ; matthew.nardotti@navigant.com ; maxinesavitz@aol.com ; mhyland@appanet.org ; mrivest@navigant.

com ; mwaltner@nrdc.org ; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com ; phil@pjharter.com ; pkumar@publicpower.org ; Raymo

nd.Polinski@atimetals.com ; rgreeson@federalpacific.com ; rick.anderson@faypwc.com ; robert.saint@nrec

a.coop ; robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov ; rroy@nrdc.org ; ScottB@lvmetals.com ; snadel@aceee.org ; srosen stock@eei.org ; tballo@earthjustice.org ; Teckman@nwcouncil.org ; thomas.patzner@us.schneiderelectric.com ; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com ; zhimei.luo@navigant.com Subject: Re: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole



### We also need to take into account th at joint users also share the cost.



### Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

www.BermanEconomics.com

1915 Grand Court

Vienna, VA 22182

703

‐ 281

‐ 0490

703

‐ 655

‐ 8398 (cell)
BermanEconomics@gmail.com

On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:27 AM, Jerry Hodge wrote:

Ken:

Does your pole change out estimate include the costs incurred by the other joint users of the pole such as the telephone or TV cable companies for transferring their equipmen t from the old to the new pole? Sometimes too, the pol e is owned by one of the other joint users and you may have to wait until they can begin their work before the po wer co. can act. Time is an important issue. All of this can add to the cost of change out.

Jerry

Jerry Hodge Consulting Engineer, E.E., M.S., P.E. Retired V.P. & G.M. of Pole Type Transformer & Regulator Div.

### Howard Industries Inc.

P.O.Box 1588 Laurel, Ms, 39440

601 422-1539 Bus.

484 226-6190 Cell

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------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- -----Original Message-----

From: Kenneth Winder [ mailto:kwinder@mleainc.com ] Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:37 PM

To: Richard Parker

Cc: phopkinson@hvolt.com ; Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com ; adelaski@standardsasap.org ; ahofmann@publicpower.org ; amarantan@navigant.com ; artrosenfeld@gmail.com ; august.esch@gmail.com ; BermanEconomics@gmail.com ; brian.coffey@navigant.com ; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com ; bsmith@federalpacific.com ; cabolduc@lbl.gov ; Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com ; carlos.gaytan@ge.com ; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com ; chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com ; charlied@uus.org ; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com ; clark.silcox@nema.org ; cstephens@neea.org ; Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov ; dave.millure@metglas.com ; DYoung@energy-solution.com ; eduardorobles@eaton.com ; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com ; gbf1@pge.com ; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov ; greg.coulter405@gmail.com ; James.Lass@cleco.com ; Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov ; Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov ; jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com ; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com ; Jerry Hodge; Jim.creevy@nema.org ; Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov ; jmauer@standardsasap.org ; john.caskey@nema.org ; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov ; jrossetti@mlgw.org ; kcoughlin@lbl.gov ; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net ; mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com ; matthew.nardotti@navigant.com ; maxinesavitz@aol.com ; mhyland@appanet.org ; mrivest@navigant.com ; mwaltner@nrdc.org ; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com ; phil@pjharter.com ; pkumar@publicpower.org ; Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com ; rgreeson@federalpacific.com ; richardparkerdc@gmail.com ; rick.anderson@faypwc.com ;

### robert.saint@nreca.coop ; robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov ; rroy@nrdc.org ; ScottB@lvmetals.com ; snadel@aceee.org ; srosenstock@eei.org ; tballo@earthjustice.org ; Teckman@nwcouncil.org ; thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com ; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com ; zhimei.luo@navigant.com ; Chris Boulduc; Ken Winder Subject: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole

Richard and Committee: Attached is a spreadsheet show ing the cost to replace an existing pole in a three-phase distribution circ uit with an existing single-phase

distribution transformer mounted on it. This information was developed to estimate the cost to replace an existing pole with a new, higher strength pole required because of the increased weight of the

distribution transformer. This estima te represents the cost to do this for my Cooperative.

Other Utilities will be furnishi ng this information for their systems.
Kenneth A. Winder, PE



### <Mail Attachment.eml>