Mike Chitwood—A Profile in Law Enforcement Leadership 

Voiceover 

00:00 

Welcome to The Beat—a podcast series from the COPS Office at the Department of Justice. Featuring 

interviews with experts from a varied field of disciplines, The Beat provides law enforcement with the 

latest developments and trending topics in community policing. 

Jennifer Donelan 

00:16 

Hello, and welcome to The Beat. I’m Jennifer Donelan, your host. Today’s interview is being hosted via 

Zoom. Today we have such a special guest. I am so excited about this podcast. So, let me introduce you 

to Sheriff Chitwood. When most people think of Florida’s Daytona Beach, they think of spring break and 

fast cars at the Daytona International Speedway, but for many in law enforcement, they think of the 

sheriff of Volusia County, Mike Chitwood. Sheriff Chitwood began his career with the Philadelphia Police 

Department in 1988, where he developed a reputation for being a hard-charging cop, chasing suspects 

on subway tracks through ductwork and down city blocks. In 2005, he moved on to become the chief in 

Shawnee, Oklahoma, a city of 29,000 people. A year later, he became the chief of Daytona Beach, where 

he served for 10 years before being elected sheriff of Volusia County, which encompasses Daytona 

Beach. 

When this former Philly cop arrived in Daytona with a commitment to reduce the use of force by 

officers, increase transparency, and work towards reform, it did not seem like an easy fit to some 

people, yet he has established a cult following that spans the political divide and a small contingent that 

sees things quite differently. Sheriff Chitwood, welcome to The Beat. It’s an honor. 

Sheriff Mike Chitwood 

01:35 

It’s an honor. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. 

Donelan 

01:37 

Absolutely. You’ve earned it. You’ve earned it. So, before we get too far into our discussion, can we go 

back to the beginning? What attracted you to a career in law enforcement? 

Chitwood 

01:48 

Yeah. I am a second-generation police officer. My dad retired after 55 years in policing in 2019. He 

began his career in Philadelphia, went on to be a police chief in a small township outside of Philly after 

spending 20 years in Philly, he then went there for four years, and then he was in Portland, Maine, as a 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

chief for almost 20 years before he headed back to Pennsylvania and became the superintendent of the 

Upper Darby Police Department for 15 years. So, I have no other knowledge of my father other than 

being a cop. 

Donelan 

02:19 

No doubt. Was that—this is what I’m going to do, because, you know, sometimes kids with parents... 

Like my mom was a science teacher and I couldn’t stand science. Was it just something you naturally 

were inclined to, or was it an expectation? 

Chitwood 

02:33 

No expectation. As a kid, my father was my hero. When I became a teenager, much like your mom with 

science, my father and policing—as a teenager I was the antichrist. I just did not want anything to do 

with cops. I didn’t want anything to do with police work, quite frankly, didn’t really understand what law 

enforcement was all about. I knew I just didn’t like it. And then, you know, I got married young; I had a 

couple daughters. You’re 21 years old. You’re working on the docks. And you’re like, “There’s got to be 

more to life than this.” And 23, I got hired by the Philadelphia Police Department. And the day I walked 

through the doors of that police academy I knew there was nothing more I wanted to do with my life 

than be in law enforcement. 

Donelan 

03:11 

Those are the moments that people pray for, you know. It’s like, “Have I made the right decision? Have I 

not?” But when you have that kind of moment and you know you’ve arrived, that’s phenomenal and 

very lucky—very lucky. So, let’s stick with the early part of your career. Do you remember your first duty 

station? 

Chitwood 

03:28 

My first duty station was to walk a beat in the subway. And, you know, you had a huge homeless 

population back in the late 80s—AIDS was coming on the scene, hepatitis was coming on the scene, 

homelessness—so you’re really walking a beat in the subway. You got to meet all kinds of people and 

you really had to learn how to interact to survive. You really had to think on your feet, because a lot of 

the problems that came your way, they weren’t something you could just read into a manual and then 

just figure out: How do I deal with somebody who’s mentally ill who is acting out in the subway? How do 

I get them the help that they need? Slapping the handcuffs on them wasn’t exactly the way to proceed. 

And then after about six months, I did such a good job that I got my first promotion. They moved me 32 

steps up from the subway to street level. So, you could walk a foot beat in the fresh air and the 

sunshine. So— 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donelan 

04:16 

Which smells better. 

Chitwood 

04:17 

It smells a lot better. Absolutely. But one of the things with walking a beat, it gives you a different 

perspective than when you’re in a car. I mean, that’s why I truly believe you’ve got to get out of the car. 

I mean, you know, you’re stopping into businesses, you’re meeting people, people are stopping asking 

you for directions, you’re helping people who lock their keys in their car. So really you get to learn 

policing from the ground up and how to interact with people from all different walks of life who have all 

different kinds of problems and see you walking down the street and they want you to be a problem 

solver. 

Donelan 

04:49 

You took the words out of my mouth. Because when you talked about the fact that you start walking the 

subway beat and then you’re moved to the streets above, walking the beat, you know, we have all of 

these discussions and debates over policing in America right now, but that seems to be just such a 

fundamental activity, right—that one-on-one contact, person-to-person, human contact. You’re out of 

the car, that barrier’s gone. How much of an answer do you think that is to some of the issues we’re 

currently seeing? 

Chitwood 

05:19 

It’s a big issue because I’m a huge proponent of technology, but the downside of technology is patrol 

cars today are loaded with so much technology it becomes the officer’s office. So there really is no 

reason for them to get out of the car, because they can do everything they need to do inside of the 

vehicle. Their paperwork’s done; you could write tickets in there; you could do your research. So, really, 

you’re only getting out of the car to provide a service and then you get back in the car and you’re off to 

the next call. And I think that, you know, back when I started in Philadelphia, there were 7,000 cops. So, 

you had cops that were out on biking, on foot. That was their assignments. 

And I’ll take it a step further, you know, while I didn’t have school resource officers in school, I know 

that school resource officers played a huge role in the public-school system. Because those men and 

women, by day, they were school resource officers, but once school got out, they were the coaches, 

they were running homework clubs. So, they were in that school all day long because when they got off 

the clock at 3:00 or 3:30, they then became school board employees. It was their part-time job working 

for the school board and the kids got to see them not only in uniform; they got to see them as their 

coach, their strength and conditioning coach, you know, running the homework club or whatever, 

maybe running band. Those officers were picked for a certain skillset that matched a certain school. And 

I always wanted to do that. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donelan 

06:44 

That’s amazing. That’s the type of investment, right, that you may not see the obvious payoff right there 

and then, but again, it’s just going back to some of the fundamentals, which, that balance between, you 

know, how we’ve modernized in some of the tried-and-true things that actually, really do work. I want 

to talk about balancing now. So, in law enforcement circles, you have been viewed as somewhat of a 

unicorn. You’re a northern cop leading an agency in the deep south. You appeal to those who are tough 

on crime orientation, as well as those who are reform minded. You’re known as both a visionary thinker 

on law enforcement issues, and someone whose philosophy is often presented as straight, no chaser. 

And you must be—and I don’t know if this is a fact or not—but you must be the only sheriff that I’ve 

ever known to be endorsed by both the NRA and the NAACP. So, what’s the secret sauce here? What is 

it about your approach to the job that enables you to walk that tight rope? 

Chitwood 

07:41 

I don’t know, to be honest with you. But in 2016, my first time I ran for office, I did receive the 

endorsement of the NAACP and the NRA. You know, I think we focus too much in American society on 

what separates us as opposed to what really unites us. And everybody, no matter what your 

socioeconomic income is, or what the color of your skin is—you want law enforcement. You want it to 

be honest. You want it to be fair. And you want it to solve problems. And we all want that. And that’s, I 

think, what the building blocks of policing need to remain focused on. 

How do I provide a level of service that the neighborhoods want? Because every neighborhood’s 

different. In one neighborhood, it’s drug dealing. In another neighborhood, it’s speeding. In another 

neighborhood, it might be, what are we doing to engage juveniles who don’t have anything to do? And 

let’s face it, in many American communities, the only government resource they see is that patrol car. 

They don’t know who their local elected officials are. They don’t know who their state officials are. They 

don’t know who their federal officials are. The only government resource is us. And a lot of times when 

they see us, it’s not in a good light because we’re arresting somebody or we’re giving somebody a ticket. 

We’re doing things that aren’t really popular. 

Donelan 

08:55 

It’s that moment. It’s that crisis moment, or something bad has happened and it’s really difficult to find 

those opportunities to have those connections when there’s no crisis. The other piece that you were 

talking about, the whole ability to just not do a blanket approach across everything, right? Like you said, 

one neighborhood may be facing this issue, another neighborhood is facing this. How are you able to 

lead your department in a way so that you’re able to address those different things all at once? Is there 

a certain philosophy you maintain, or a program that you’ve enacted? How do you do that? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

09:28 

We try to be as transparent as transparent can be with everything that we do. And you know you’re 

going to be criticized because you’re being transparent; you’re not hiding anything. You have to learn 

from that criticism, but you want to talk to the community. I mean, I want all of my captains, including 

myself, to attend community meetings. Give out your business card, make sure you’re answering your 

emails promptly because we may look at crime stats in a certain neighborhood, and say, “Oh, this is 

what the issue is, and this is how we’re going to go out and police this neighborhood.” Well, the 

neighborhood doesn’t see the same problem that I see. Their problem is something else that they want 

us to be doing, and that’s where we have to tailor our approach to what’s important. 

We just did a crime presentation the other night. Our largest city, Deltona, is a little over 100,000 

people. We’re the police department for the city, and we go in there and we’re showing a four-year, 30-

percent reduction in crime, our clearance rate. The ability to solve a crime once it occurs is at 50 

percent. So, 50 percent of the time, which way surpasses the national average that a part one crime—a 

burglary, a homicide, a stolen car, a larceny car break, robbery—we’re solving them. But when we do 

the presentation, we get a nice little smattering of applause, and first question out of box: What are you 

doing with speeding on Deltona Boulevard? What are you doing with— 

Donelan 

10:41 

You’re like, what? I just drop crime 40 percent and you’re worried about speeding on Deltona 

Boulevard? 

Chitwood 

10:46 

Right. But overwhelmingly in the community that’s what they ask: How many tickets are you running? 

Because it’s important to them because there’s a school nearby; there’s a playground nearby. “Hey, it’s 

really great that we’re not having drug deals going on there, but what are we doing with the speeding?” 

Donelan 

11:02 

Quality of life. 

Chitwood 

11:03 

That’s important to them. So we turn around and say, “Look, we still have to continue fighting crime, but 

now what we need to do is we need to be able to do a much, much better job at traffic enforcement, 

advertising that traffic enforcement, and advertising what the results are.” I don’t care if we write 4,000 

warnings. I don’t care if we don’t write any tickets and we do 4,000 warnings, and then we do 4,000 

they’re all educational car stops. That’s what we’re going to broadcast out there. That we made 4,000 

stops and we educated every single person and we didn’t have to write a ticket and that’s a win-win. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donelan 

11:34 

I’m going to go a little off script here and ask you something, because I’m meeting you for the first time. 

And one of the things that’s really affecting me right now is how human you seem. Because, quite 

frankly, just talking to you now for, what, two minutes? Three minutes? I could see how you’ve been 

able to cross the aisle and how you’ve been able to... Because it seems like you just, and plainly put, 

keep it real. Is that something that you try to do? 

Chitwood 

11:55 

I think it’s my personality. I am a frustrated former athlete. I grew up in a very, very diverse city. And as 

a kid, I remember I could get on my bike and bike into a Black neighborhood, a Hispanic neighborhood, a 

Jewish neighborhood, an Irish neighborhood, an Italian neighborhood, and go out and play ball and then 

get on the bike and leave. Never had an issue. Never. Because you were going in there to play basketball 

or baseball or football with different folks from different neighborhoods and different socioeconomic 

backgrounds, and on that court we were all the same. You were there to play. You were there to win. I 

think that that gave me, personally, a grounding in interacting with people from all different 

backgrounds through sports. That’s what I think. 

Donelan 

12:38 

So how do you teach that? 

Chitwood 

12:39 

It’s difficult, because one of the things we look at is... I tend to never want to hire somebody that’s 19 

years old. It’s a disaster for that young person; odds are they going to fail. And they may have been good 

at this career maybe a little later on when they got some exposure to different things. But when I talk to 

kids about education—I just taught the civics class to middle schoolers on Monday—I talked about the 

importance of education. You know, you grew up in Port Orange, Florida, which is 90 percent White city. 

You went to Port Orange Elementary School (90 percent White), middle school (90 percent White). You 

went to high school; maybe that number drops to 65 percent, 70 percent because obviously the high 

schools are more feeders for different parts of the city. 

So, you’ve really grown up in this one area your whole entire life and you have one paradigm. That’s 

why you need to go to college, is what I told these kids at civics class. You need to get out of here. And I 

don’t mean that in a bad way. You need to get out and see what the rest of the world is like, because 

people don’t all live the same way. They don’t all live in single homes with swimming pools in the back. 

Where I come from, you’re on top of one another and you have people from all different parts of the 

world living on some blocks. You have people from Pakistan and you have Muslims living on a block; you 

have Jewish people living on a block, you have Blacks, Whites, Irish, Hispanic—all in that one grow home 

block, all trying to make a living and support their families and educate their children. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I think that’s what we need more of in law enforcement, is to understand that view and when we 

don’t have that view. That warrior mentality is the old way of doing things and, believe it or not, you’ve 

got to fight against it every day. I have to fight against it here, still. We’re warriors and we are here to 

combat crime head on and we have to, you know, I think former President Trump used the term, “Don’t 

be too nice.” You know, what message did he send very early on to law enforcement? “Don’t be too 

nice.” What does that mean? 

Donelan 

14:36 

Right. You’re here to help people. Police officers have to wear so many different hats because they are 

the only point of government contact for some. And so, they’re counselor, they’re doctor, they’re the 

police officer, they’re everything to many people. It is a heavy weight to carry. And the age thing that 

you just brought up is actually the first time that I’ve kind of heard someone say that out loud, but I 

think you made a great point—looking at just sort of level of maturity and, “Are you ready for this?” 

Because it’s very real and the implications, as we have seen, are very real. When you were chief in 

Daytona Beach, it became one of, if not the first, department in Florida, I believe, to require the use of 

body-worn cameras at a time when the technology was new and I’m assuming there was a lot of 

pushback internally from officers and unions. And you also implemented some tactics and policies that 

would reduce use of force by officers. How did that go? 

Chitwood 

15:33 

Yes. That is a tremendous question. And thanks for the opportunity to answer. We were the first police 

department in the state of Florida to go full body cameras. We started experimenting probably in 2011 

or 2012 with them, and the impetus behind that was complaints from the minority community about 

the way they were being treated. Number one complaint was rudeness, not taking the time to have a 

little bit of empathy. And then it was followed with, you know, traffic stops. And so we decided to... Let’s 

experiment with these things, and let’s put them on our most aggressive officers, and let’s put them on 

the officers who have the most complaints. Now, we didn’t say that out loud because the union was— 

Donelan 

16:14 

I was going to say. 

Chitwood 

16:15 

The union kind of understood where we were going, but it was a pilot program. And one of the 

interesting things that came out of it was I had an officer that made a lot of narcotics arrests, a lot of 

narcotics arrests. Once that body camera went on, he didn’t make any more narcotics arrests. And then 

we went back and looked at what was transpiring with these arrests. And most of the arrests were never 

making it past the preliminary hearing stage. So, it kind of weeded some people out. The good cops, the 

cops that were out making arrests and answering a lot of radio calls, they didn’t change. They continued 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

doing their job; and as a matter of fact, they actually liked it because their efforts were being 

documented, not only for complaint issues, but for court issues. They knew that that was going to back 

up their report, that will back up their investigation because now you can look at the body-camera 

footage and see exactly what I did, and exactly what I said. 

Donelan 

17:14 

Did your lawsuits come down? 

Chitwood 

17:16 

Our lawsuits dropped dramatically, and our complaints against police dropped into the single digits. 

Donelan 

17:22 

Really? 

Chitwood 

17:22 

Because somebody would make a complaint, and we would say, “Listen, before you fill out the form, 

please come in and look at the body-camera footage first.” And we were very transparent with that. So, 

if you made a complaint you could see it. The NAACP would call me and say, “Hey, we got a complaint.” 

I’m like, “Listen, tell me what time works for you. I’ll bring you into a big room, and I’ll play the bodycamera footage. Take a look at it, and feel free to ask any question that you want.” And I think that 

transparency and that availability that they knew, all they need to do was go and say, “Hey, a group of 

us want to come over and take a look at this arrest; a group of us want to come over and look at this or 

that, or discuss, maybe there’s a better way to do this even though the body camera shows that 

everything that we did, you guys did, was by policy, maybe there’s a softer, better way that we could 

accomplish the same mission.” 

So that’s what... We got so much buy-in with the body cameras. It was a no-brainer, and then eventually 

I even moved it on the SWAT team. That didn’t go over too well. That was kind of like pulling teeth, but 

it’s high liability, why do you not want to see what’s going on? It’s protecting everybody involved, 

especially when it comes to things like knock and announce. You lose court cases and the suppression 

hearings because the defense attorney says, “They didn’t knock and announce. They just crashed 

through the door.” Well, it’s kind of hard to argue when the body camera’s on and it shows that you 

knocked, announced, and waited 30 seconds before you entered the property. 

Donelan 

18:36 

There are departments that still don’t have body-worn camera programs, went through that same battle 

that you went through when you introduced it, when it was really new—what advice do you give to 

their leadership in terms of creating as smooth as possible? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

18:50 

I think that the cameras have been around long enough that you can go out and find policies and 

procedures that are best practices. And I would ask you to be introspective to police leaders and the 

government leaders. Isn’t it, at the end of the day, your job to protect your employees and protect your 

community? While body cameras are not a panacea, they’re really a good tool that can establish 

transparency and trust in your community, but you have to share that information. A lot of police 

departments, including my alma mater in Philadelphia, do not share that in a timely manner. And when 

you don’t do that, as Winston Churchill once said, a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth 

gets a chance to put his pants on. So, I mean, I’ll tell you an anecdotal story. 

We had a police shooting, probably in 2015 I think it was, in which a guy was holding his girlfriend 

hostage. We got a whole bunch of 911 calls that he had a gun, he had a knife, he had a machete, and he 

was in the house, and he was killing her. We show up, Daytona Beach police officers show up, and they 

could hear the woman screaming: “Help, help, help, help, help.” The decision is made to kick in the front 

door. When they kick in the door and enter the property, the suspect was a big guy, he was a former 

NFL lineman. He was about 6 foot 10, probably weighed about 350 pounds or more. He grabs his 

girlfriend, uses her as a human shield, and puts the knife into her chest, and then begins to start to push 

the knife into her chest and starts to stab her. We open fire and we wound him and take him into 

custody. 

My phone rings. It took me 20 minutes to get to the crime scene. By the time I got there, there were 

several hundred people outside of the home. The mayor was outside of the house and the mayor’s 

brother, who was a city councilman, was outside of the house. And the community was screaming that 

we kicked the door and shot an unarmed man. So, obviously, this thing’s not going to go well if it’s 3:00 

in the morning and oh, we have 250 people outside of a house. We’ve got to do something. So, we went 

back, downloaded the body camera, reviewed it, brought the mayor and his brother in, put him in a 

room said, “Watch this as much as you want, and then come out. We’ve got to talk.” And then after he 

watched it, he said, “Oh my God, they saved her life.” I said, “Now, I need your help. We need to 

assemble the NAACP; we need to assemble community leaders. I want them to view this. The state 

attorney doesn’t want me to release it publicly, but you know what? I got to release it. The community’s 

got to see what happened. I cannot wait on the state attorney to tell me when I can release it. So, at 

noon, we held a huge press conference, we released it, by 4:00 in the afternoon, there were no more 

issues. 

Donelan 

21:11 

I think that that is the beauty and saving grace of that transparency. And you keep talking about this 

transparency. That also flips though, right? I mean, if you have a case where something bad happened 

on camera. While it’s painful, you’ve still got to rip the Band-Aid off and share that one too. I feel like it’s 

just you share the good, the bad, and the ugly, and it builds trust. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

21:34 

Amen. You have to be... As quickly as you put out the body-camera footage on the good things, is as 

quickly as you got to put out the body camera on the bad things. And then you got to be ready to take 

the heat for it, and then you got to be ready to say, “Okay, we made a mistake. We were wrong. These 

are the steps that we’re going to take to fix that.” I think the same thing applies: “Okay, you made a 

mistake; you put a plan forward, and let’s go forward.” Now, you’re going to get beat up, but that’s why 

you take this job. Every decision isn’t going to be the right decision as much as you try to. 

Donelan 

22:07 

When, I think, your long career is proof positive that this is the way because it builds trust. The 

community will be more willing to forgive the bad if you’re willing to, like you said, it’s that time too— 

you can’t wait days. Departments that wait days to release footage if they release it at all or release a 

statement or get on camera, that’s the kind of hit you don’t want to take. You, like you said, you, “Oh, 

we get beat up.” You don’t get beat up as bad as the ones that don’t say anything. Definitely think that 

transparency is the big key. And we’re going to talk about 2020. And I can’t wait to hear your thoughts 

about that because that transparency really is—everybody’s looking for this magic solution, and I really 

think that’s it. 

Chitwood 

22:48 

I mean, look at what happened in Chicago, where that young man was shot and killed on the steps and it 

took two years before the mayor and the police chief decided to release that. And then there was 

complete uproar. A police chief lost his job. I think there was civil unrest, and justifiably. Why would you 

wait? You knew it was a horrible shooting. You knew it was a bad shooting. Did you think it was going to 

go away and people were going to stop asking questions? No. And when you don’t put that information 

out there, somebody’s going to feed that void. 

Donelan 

23:17 

Exactly. The beast is going to get fed. When the beast needs feeding, it’s going to get fed whether you’re 

doing it, or it’s going somewhere else. Water always finds a way. I always say this. Alright. Oh, we talked 

about recruiting a little bit; you’re talking about, you know, making sure that people are ready for the 

reality of what law enforcement is and the heavy weight that you carry, all the good that you do. You’ve 

been very vocal about the need for continuous efforts to improve law enforcement policies and 

practices. Last fall, you pushed to have your office take over the training of your recruits from a local 

community college. You were quoted by a local newspaper as saying, “We’re at a point in law 

enforcement where determining the culture and future of an organization cannot be left in the hands of 

others.” What drove you to that, and what did you hope to achieve? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

24:04 

We fortunately, two weeks ago, were granted the ability to now run our own police academy. We have 

to follow the state curriculum for 770 hours, but we can go way above and beyond that and we could 

mix and match things in with the framework like implicit bias training, race and police, de-escalation, 

current events, you know, we could put all kind of different things into that skeleton, that framework 

that they give us. I think when you look at what happened over the summer and you look back 

historically, there are two kinds of policing academies in this country. One is open, which we have here 

in Florida, meaning anybody regardless of your background, if you can pay the tuition, you can go to the 

police academy and graduate. Might not get hired—probably aren’t going to get hired—but as long as 

you spend that $3,500 or $3,800, you’re in the academy. And every step along the way, the state 

academies get reimbursed monies while you’re in there, even though you’re never going to get hired. 

So, an example is, your first day of class they get a $1,000 per student in the first day of class. You pass 

the state exam, they might get $2,000 per student. If they get hired, they’ll get $3,000 reimbursement 

to the state college. 

So, for the state college, for an open enrollment, they make money at every turn. Conversely, a closed 

academy which we are going to start running, we screen every single applicant—psychological, 

polygraph exam, drug screening, in-depth background—and then we offer you employment. And from 

the day you walk through the door, you are a Volusia Sheriff’s Office recruit, trained by us, trained in our 

policies, trained in our procedure, trained in our culture. The first line in our use of force policy is the 

sanctity of human life is paramount in all of our decision making. 

When you’re in an academy or being taught generally to pass an exam, I have no influence in the 

culture. When they get out of that academy, then I hire them, then I have to put them through another 

academy, and try to break some of the things that they may have learned or heard— 

Donelan 

26:12 

Mm-hmm [affirmative]. 

Chitwood 

26:12 

—separate. You only have one chance to train somebody correctly. And I’m interested in building 

careers, having people here for the long haul are going to serve this community for 20, 25, 30 years, and 

the best way to help me with recruiting is just that. The first day you get hired here, pay you $14 an 

hour, and you get full medical benefits, and you’re in the pension system. After you graduate from the 

academy, it goes up to $16 an hour. After you get out of field training, it goes up to $20 an hour. So, 

there’s all benchmarks for you to come in and prove. And during this time, you’re under scrutiny of my 

staff and myself every day. We’re going to know if you’re going to make it and fit in. So, I think that any 

police department that has the wherewithal to do it should train their own. What I was saying earlier 

was when you go back and look at the—I don’t even want to call him a police officer—the guy in 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Minnesota, and you look at some of these other incidents, most of these officers that are involved in 

these nationwide incidents of excessive force, brutality, you know, moral turpitude issues, have gone 

through an open academy. 

Donelan 

27:18 

Interesting. Now, I will say this too. When I look at recent cases in my area, and honestly, in several 

areas, the law—personnel laws protect you from looking at some of this stuff—but when you do start to 

get a hint and glimpse of background, sometimes I’m left scratching my head saying, “How did this 

person get in?” So you’re on the cusp of launching your own program, and I’m not sure if you’re there 

yet, since you just found out two weeks ago, but like, how do you ensure that your psychological testing 

and all of that is the best it can be? What thoughts have you had on that? 

Chitwood 

27:53 

Great question. Some of it is a crap shoot. You know, you always try to find the best practices that are 

going on around the country and implement them into your organization. And it’s funny, as we’re 

talking now, I just met with eight recruits who are police officers in other parts of the country that have 

applied to come to work for us. So, they had all done their psychological exams and everybody, 

psychological, none of us are perfect. You’re gambling on a human being, because I don’t have an X-ray 

machine that can look into your soul and say, “I’m disqualifying.” Some of them it’s blatant; some of 

them you look in there and they tell, you know, they were not truthful during a psychological exam; they 

weren’t truthful during a polygraph exam. There are other ones where, you know, the psychological will 

say that the person is well adjusted—they have good communication skills; they’re very mature. 

However, when confronted with a high-stress event, can’t guarantee that they’ll be able to perform up 

to the level. So, do you disqualify that person? Because there are a lot of people who take that 

psychological exam that some of those profiles aren’t 100 percent perfect. 

Donelan 

28:59 

Right. 

Chitwood 

28:59 

Some people you have to gamble and because you look and say, “Okay, they’ve been a cop for five years 

somewhere else and all of their evaluations are glowing. They have no citizens’ complaints against them. 

They have no excessive force complaints.” So, you know, you’re going to gamble on that. You hold your 

breath. We’re hiring from the human race. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donelan 

29:16 

Yeah, exactly. And everybody’s human, and we all come with our own garbage. That’s for sure. I think 

that honesty tends to be a glowing thing to look at. You’ve got somebody who’s dishonest, you’re losing 

out the gate. You know, it keeps going back for me and I want to ask you about your trip to Scotland. But 

just about being a human being, understanding people have faults, but really just relying on some on the 

old adages that the truth will set you free, you know, it’s truth, it’s transparency, it’s timely. It’s just 

doing the right thing. And it just sounds so simplistic and we could have conferences for weeks on end, 

but at the end of the day, if it boils down to that, why are we having such a tough time sticking to that? 

Chitwood 

29:54 

Yeah, you’re right. What is worse? The mistake or the lie covering up the mistake? And it’s always the lie 

covering up the mistake. 

Donelan 

30:01 

It’s always the lie covering up the mistake. 

Chitwood 

30:02 

It’s always. It’s always. And part of that comes down to the unions. I cannot tell you the number of times 

that... And I’ll give you an example. A deputy recently accidentally discharges his weapon inside of a car 

with a bunch of other deputies who were doing a take down and it’s caught on body-camera footage. 

The easiest thing in the world is to come in and say, “Sheriff, I don’t know what I was thinking. I had my 

gun out of my holster. I banged my arm on the door. The gun went off. Thank God I didn’t kill one of my 

fellow officers. What do I need to do to fix this?” 

Donelan 

30:36 

Correct. That would be the right thing to do. 

Chitwood 

30:38 

It would be the right thing to do. And it would take a five-minute conversation. 

Donelan 

30:41 

Correct. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

30:41 

Okay. Here’s what I need to do. We’re going to retrain you. Obviously, you’re going to have to think 

about this. We’re going to suspend you for a little bit, but you’re going to recover from this and move 

on. Thank you for your honesty. Instead I have—the union comes in, I have to do an internal 

investigation. We have to cut down a forest full of trees to do this 120-page report. We have to listen to 

this “Mary had a little lamb” story and then after everything was said and done, the deputy says, 

“Sheriff, I screwed up.” Why did I have to wait three months for you to hear that? You should have been 

in my office the next day [inaudible] “I screwed up. I could have killed myself. I could have killed some 

fellow officer in the car. I don’t know what I was thinking. What do we need to do to fix this?” And the 

deputy’s a good deputy. He does a good job. But I just sit there and shake your head, “Why?” The union 

wraps up this thing, “Well, you can’t go in there and say that.” Well, why not? Why? Why not? 

Donelan 

31:29 

Right. I agree. I agree. I absolutely agree. And this may be the deep dive that we’ve got to start to make 

instead of some of the other things that are on the table right now that may not even make a scratch. 

But some of what you’re talking about could really have a really lasting impact. 2015—you go to 

Scotland to study techniques for handling people exhibiting aggressive behavior or signs of mental 

illness. After that visit you came back, you launched a pilot—I’m not surprised—you launched a pilot 

project that paired deputies with social workers and mental health counselors—really hot-button issue 

right now, really relevant. Can you tell us more about that? What that looks like? 

Chitwood 

32:06 

Yeah. The mental health counselors came in a little later, but in 2015, I was fortunate enough to go with 

Police Executive Research Forum, which is a national think tank out of Washington D.C. dealing with 

police issues. I was one of 25 police executives that was selected to travel to Scotland to study with 

Police Scotland or National Police Force on how does a police force that does not carry firearms—how 

do they deal with mentally ill, mentally disturbed folks? Or violent individuals armed with knives, bats, 

petrol bombs, bricks, and people don’t end up dead. In America, they end up dead. 

Donelan 

32:40 

Good idea. Right place to go. 

Chitwood 

32:40 

Okay, let’s go. And there was no sightseeing, but they were 12-hour days watching how they trained, 

watching what their policies and procedures were, watching how they recruited, watching CCTV 

footage—because everything over there in Europe especially, there’s CCTV footage all over the place. 

And what we took away from that and actually developed it, it’s called ICAT training: Integrated 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Communication and Tactics. And the focal point of it is time, distance, and cover are your friend. 

Obviously, you have an active shooter in the school, that’s not going to work. But you have a mentally ill 

person, or somebody who’s high on drugs is inside of a house with a gun threatening to kill everybody 

and kill themselves, and we get there and we kick the front door in and shoot and kill him. Well, why? 

He’s inside of the home right now. Why not use time, distance, and cover? Find out as much information 

as you can about him. Does he have a mental health counselor? Does he have somebody we could talk 

to? Why are we going to force his hand and go in there and have to kill him? And that’s what was born 

out of that. And now as we’re moving along with de-escalation training and I can tell you that our use of 

force dropped by 50 percent. 

We put the whole department through training. We did a study in 2017. In 2018, we trained the entire 

department on this ICAT—Integrated Communication and Tactics—scenario-based training, time, 

distance, and cover, sanctity of human life, get more less-lethal weaponry out on the street, being able 

to reach out to mental health counselors. Our use of force dropped by 50 percent— 

Donelan 

34:17 

I was going to ask. 

Chitwood 

34:17 

Dropped by 50 percent. 

Donelan 

34:18 

Wow. 

Chitwood 

34:19 

Injuries to deputies—this is a big thing the union fought me on. “You’re going to get deputies hurt.” 

Injuries to deputies dropped by 50 percent. Injuries to suspects dropped by 50 percent. And here’s the 

best part of all this: Crime dropped by 20 percent, and our arrests dropped by 15 percent. And I said to 

myself, “Tell me what we’re doing wrong. Somebody tell me what we’re doing wrong?” 

Donelan 

34:41 

Right. 

Chitwood 

34:41 

Here we are, we did 2020 statistics. 2020 statistics almost mirror the same exact scenario. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donelan 

34:49 

Is there a cost? 

Chitwood 

34:50 

The study cost me $90,000 to get done by PERF. And every step of the way, we didn’t wait to get the 

final report to implement things. Every time they would study something and say, “Hey, the best 

practice is A,” we would institute it. So, little by little, like eating an elephant, we took one bite out of 

the apple until we got to where we wanted to be. And there was a cost associated with it because there 

were things like, you know, we converted, I think, 75 shotguns to less-lethal shotguns. 

Donelan 

35:18 

What about the social workers? Did you have to have people on call? Was there any increase like? 

Chitwood 

35:23 

What we’re doing right now is we have a pilot program going on in Deltona. We have 10 iPads out on 

the street with the supervisors that give us instant access to a certified mental health counselor. The 

dispatchers are currently also going through mental health crisis training. They’re able to access and tell 

responding deputies, “Okay, it’s Mike Chitwood who’s there; he’s in mental crisis; he suffers from 

schizophrenia, does not react well to lights and sirens and uniforms. His mental health counselor is so 

and so.” So, prior to even arriving, we’re able, in some cases, to reach out to the mental health 

counselor and say, “What do we need to do?” 

Donelan 

35:59 

What would somebody say is bad about it? I’m missing it. 

Chitwood 

36:01 

Nothing. We’re having great success. The question’s going to be: We don’t have the monies to put a 

mental health counselor out on the street 24/7, 365. We have that sporadically, but the iPad gives us 

access, and in some cases you just hand the iPad to the person in crisis, or the family member and you 

just back off and let them do what they need to do. 

Donelan 

36:21 

That’s just making such good use of technology. 
 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

36:24 

The iPads are... Florida Power & Light Company wanted to be part of the program and bought the 10 

iPads. Daytona Beach Macy’s bought the 10 iPads so that they get involved in this pilot program as well. 

There [are] public-private partnerships there because everybody recognizes how important this is. 

Donelan 

36:41 

I was going to say, and you’re improving these relationships in the community. You’re expanding. You’re 

bringing the business community in, and that’s what we’re always looking for. How can people get 

involved? They do want to get involved in a proactive, meaningful way. What could be more meaningful 

than that? 

Chitwood 

36:56 

Right. Because who in our families don’t have mental health issues? 

Donelan 

36:59 

Sure. 

Chitwood 

36:59 

Who in our families don’t have substance-abuse issues? If you say “No,” you’re lying, because we all 

have it. I have it in my family. 

Donelan 

37:04 

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And when we’re talking about things that I want to get into—the protests and 

the unrest, which really speak to ongoing, long-driven issues. The defunding of police, you know, from a 

layman’s point of view, that may seem like a simple thing—yeah, stop giving them money—but the 

reality of the impact of that, right? Like, this costs money to do [the] sort of things that everybody’s 

asking for: de-escalation, non-lethal use of force, dealing with mental health patients instead of locking 

them up—those things cost money at the end of the day, too. What’s your position on sort of what you 

see unfolding as a result of what happened after George Floyd was killed in terms of the solutions to the 

problems there? And I’m going to ask you about what happened at City Hall, because I know your soul 

was speaking to you as this was all... as you’re watching this unfold. 

Chitwood 

37:59 

Yeah. The first thing I thought when I saw that video was, I wanted to reach to the TV screen and grab 

that officer and— 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donelan 

38:05 

Yeah. 

Chitwood 

38:05 

—say, “What are you doing, man?” 

Donelan 

38:07 

Yeah. 

Chitwood 

38:07 

I mean, what are you doing? You hear the man can’t breathe. 

Donelan 

38:10 

Yeah. 

Chitwood 

38:10 

And then the second thing I also would like to say is, you know, Mr. Floyd’s daughter said, “My daddy 

changed the world.” And I think that we all have to take heed to what she says and we have an 

obligation to do that, because what we all saw, although people still try and justify it—it just blows my 

mind that anybody could justify what happened or attempt to do that, but I guess, you know, 

everybody’s entitled to their own opinion. That was a changing moment in law enforcement, was a 

defining moment for everything that we do, and what do we need to do better? 

Law enforcement changes all the time. It’s forced to change, which is a good thing. And if you look over 

the last 25 years, of all the things that we have done, we’re constantly trying to change, but it takes a 

certain incident, is what pushes us to make those changes. Defunding police, I can just tell you this: 80 

percent of my budget goes to human resources—that’s salary, that’s benefits, that’s pension payments, 

and that’s basic equipment. So, then it leaves me 20 percent to buy police cars, get gas, new equipment, 

and training. There’s not a lot there. When they cut your budget, what’s the first thing they go after? 

Your training budget. It’s the first thing they go after. And then they tell you— 

Donelan 

39:19 

It is the last thing that needs to happen because we’re trying to build better police officers. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

39:21 

Exactly. That’s the first thing. And I’ve been, you know, sheriff going on my fifth year, I’ve been a police 

chief for 11 and a half years, and I could tell you: Every time they cut my budget, the first thing they zero 

in on is your training number comes out first, then they go to your equipment. So, you’re not getting any 

new equipment or new technology in. You’re not training your people appropriately, and you’re just 

basically paying salaries and you’re treading water. So, when they talk about defunding... And then also, 

you know, people do depend on us, you know, people do depend. When they call us, they expect a 

response. And if you can’t respond, the help, that further is a divide between police and community 

relations because “I called the cops for help and they never showed up” or “they stopped responding to 

loud music calls.” Well, hey, if I got to get up and go to work and my neighbors got a brass band playing 

from, you know, 10:00 at night to 4:00 in the morning, I can’t sleep, my kids can’t sleep, and the cops 

didn’t come—that erodes quality of life in your community. 

Donelan 

40:19 

It does. Now, Daytona, City Hall, you spent a lot of time there, you’re the former chief in that city, and 

you took what many considered was an unusual step following the unrest that occurred last year, 

following the death of George Floyd. You visited with the protestors and I’m going to presume it was to 

express your understanding of the need for police and communities to move past, but I wanted you to 

tell me, like, I don’t like assuming. Why did you do that? How was it interpreted by everybody? 

Chitwood 

40:46 

Yeah. Different people interpreted it a different way, but overwhelmingly we got glowing results. 

Deltona had a group of young folks—college students, high school students, church members—that they 

wanted to march from City Hall to the Deltona Police Station. And it was typical Florida fall—rainy. It just 

rained cats and dogs. So, we got everybody lined up, I made sure that we had every intersection taken 

care of so that the folks could get their message across and walk to the police station. And one of the 

young folks says, “Well what are you going to do?” I said, “Well, I was going to, you know, just make 

sure that you guys get where you got to go.” “So, you’re not going to, you’re not going to march with 

us?” I said, “Well, you know what? If you’re going to get wet, I’ll get wet.” So, we did the two-and-a-halfmile walk, and then we got under cover and I held myself out on a question and answer session with the 

folks. Ask me anything you want to ask me, and I’ll try to answer it as honestly as I can. You might not 

like it, but I’m going to give you the answer. 

And I will tell you the questions that those folks asked me, every one of them made you stop and think. 

They were very introspective questions: Why do the police do A? What’s your belief about this? What’s 

your belief about that? Why do officers... So in a way, we were exchanging ideas that understand their 

point of view, and they could see our point of view, and disagree where we weren’t going to agree, but 

also find that common ground that, you know, “Hey, I never understood that.” I really never thought the 

community looked at us. We’re out there doing our job and you’re not viewing us as doing our job. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You’re viewing us as coming in the community and creating more of a divide as opposed to bringing us 

together. And then, there were some things that you explained, well, legally, this is what we can and 

can’t do. Big question was about White supremacy. You know, we know for a fact that there are White 

supremacists that live in Volusia County. We know for a fact that they hold meetings. We know for a fact 

that there’s motorcycle clubs that drive around. Why are your deputies not stopping them and taking 

them and do this and do that? And I said, “Well, there’s a thing called the first amendment.” 

You know, it’s not against the law to belong to a hate group. We may not like it; we find it disgusting and 

despicable, but they’re allowed to drive around with the rebel flag sewed to the back of their jackets, 

you know, they’re allowed to profess some of the things they profess on Facebook. That’s just how the 

first amendment works. We just can’t go out and lock them up for that. And they kind of understood 

when we explained to them how that works, that, “Oh, so you don’t support White supremacists?” No; 

we don’t support any extremist groups, but we just can’t lock them up because they’re members of that 

group. 

Donelan 

43:17 

It’s tough being a police officer. It’s always been tough, but it feels like it’s the toughest it’s been in 

recent times. But then you look back at history and you look at, you know, and I know you saw your fair 

share in Philly of, you know, behavior that was like, aah that’s not right, certainly wouldn’t be accepted 

in 2021. Do you think 2020, what happened, what’s still happening, do you think it’s like a snapshot in 

time? Do you think we’re going to get past this? We’ve got—and I’m sorry, I’m asking like 35 different 

questions in one question—but I just want to talk this through because, you know, we don’t have a 

national police system. We’ve got amazing associations. You mentioned PERF, you know, there’s IAFC, I 

mean, I know that we have ways that these different agencies can connect and share best practices and 

policies, but what happened to George Floyd happened thousands of miles away from where you are, 

and yet you were dealing with it where you were. 

So, the impact that one officer can make on the entire profession, we saw that. Will we grow from this, 

will things actually change, or do you think it’s a snapshot? Enough time passes, we’ll be able to move 

on. Has the profession been damaged irrevocably? You know, what are your thoughts? 

Chitwood 

44:28 

I’m an eternal optimist, but I’m not optimistic at what you just said. I don’t see us coming out of George 

Floyd, the summer of unrest, and January 6th. I don’t see us making that turn. Unfortunately, what I’m 

seeing is we somehow for a centrist nation who sometimes leans a little left or leans a little right, and 

always depends on common sense—we’re allowing extremism to seep in the modern way we think, to 

the mainstream America, and that extremism is polarizing us to what everybody should look at and say, 

“This is unacceptable in policing. This is unacceptable in American society.” What happened to Mr. 

Floyd—unacceptable. Now we’re seeing extremism say, “Well, wait a minute, you know, what was so 

bad about it? Look at his criminal history. Look at this, look at that.” Stand by. What happened had 

nothing to do with the past. And by the way, nowhere in American jurisprudence, does it say being 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

arrested for a bad check or having a drug problem or doing whatever, you get executed on a street. It 

doesn’t say that anywhere but you’re seeing such a division that I’m worried and I’m more worried for 

my children and grandchildren, especially of what kind of country are we leaving them? 

The argument that I hear is: Well, the right extremism, nothing is bad, they’re worse than the left 

extremism. And I’m like, you know, you need to look back in the history of the world. Look back to how 

Hitler came to power. You know, what were the brown shirts? The brown shirts were the far-right 

extremists who battled the far-left extremists. So, you had one extreme group fighting the other 

extreme group; in the meantime, a dictator got into power. And guess what? Don’t think it can’t happen 

here. It can happen here in a heartbeat. It, you know, our form of government is the most fragile on the 

planet. And we’re supposed to safeguard that. And if we can’t approach these issues with common 

sense, look at something and say, “It’s wrong.” I’m worried about that. And for the profession, you 

know, I have 60 openings and I have people retiring and I can’t fill those slots because we can’t get 

enough folks to apply. That’s the other reason why we went into this academy thing that maybe we can 

start to rebuild our reputation because you’re right—one rogue officer can destroy a country. 

Donelan 

46:48 

And then that’s what I’m worried about, right? First of all, for those who are working in law enforcement 

right now, today, out there on the street, supporting them, right? Because they put that badge on these 

days, no longer, is it a “Oh hi, Mr. Officer,” you know? Yes, that still exists, but it’s just so much different 

now, right? And so, making sure they’re okay and they’re feeling good about themselves and the job and 

will stay with the job, but let alone attracting new people to the gig. I was literally looking at the protest 

thinking, “Why aren’t they setting up recruitment tables at the protests?” Effect change from within. 

Come on, sign up, bring it on. We’re open. We’re ready. Because we can’t not have police officers. You 

just talked about this earlier on when you’re... you go to the community meeting and crime is down 40 

percent, but they’re worried about the speeding on Deltona Avenue. The fact of the matter is 

everyone—they deserve to be able to walk out of their house and not get beat up, their car should be 

sitting where they parked it, it shouldn’t have broken windows and been rifled through, they should feel 

safe in their neighborhoods. You do need public safety in order to assure that. And so, you’ve got a 

tough job in front of you right now. I mean, it’s ... Do you sleep? 

Chitwood 

48:02 

Only when I’m driving to and from work. [Laughs] 

Donelan 

48:06 

Don’t say that. [Laughs] 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

48:07 

But to your point, you know, when I speak to these young folks, the young protestors, I tell them if you 

have all these wonderful ideas, you know, you really affect change from within. I’m talking to a group of 

young folks here and a lot of these are in college, going to college. You know, you’re the future sheriff, 

you’re the future police chief, you’re the future mayor. You got to get involved. And then you ask, “How 

many of you registered to vote?” And of those several hundred kids that were of voting age, it was less 

than 5 percent with their hand up. I said, “You can’t do that. You’re out here because you believe what 

occurred was an injustice and rightfully so, and you’re marching for change in a driving rainstorm, but 

yet you don’t want to join my organization and you can’t vote. You’re kind of spinning your wheels here. 

And that’s what change comes all about. When I tell them, when somebody from your background gets 

into the police car with somebody from a completely different background, you guys got to work 

together. You got to work together to solve problems during that 12-hour shift. Now, don’t you think if 

we do it long enough, I’m going to see the world kind of like you see it and you’ll see the world a little bit 

like I see it and together we’re going to fix problems, but— 

Donelan 

49:10 

Got to get in to do it. Yeah. Right. Think you’re on something here. I mean, I really think that angle of 

really drawing light on that, because look at all of the programs we just talked about that you’ve 

enacted—the mental health supervisors, the body-worn cameras before it was popular—you know, you 

had to be in that position for those things to happen. And you’re right. Everybody can sit around and 

complain. I can sit around and complain until I’m blue in the face, but in order to actually effect change, 

you know, if you can’t beat them, join them. Come in and change from within. And you need diversity. 

You need a diverse set of opinions, a diverse set of experiences, and then you got those people at the 

table and, you know, maybe we can do something there. 

Chitwood 

49:47 

Yeah. I mean— 

Donelan 

49:48 

Sounds really simple. 

Chitwood 

49:49 

The thing is—it is simple. But everybody wants to muddy the waters in a way that, you know, it’s the old 

thing—okay, I know where I got to go, I know what I have to do, but yet 75 people want to get in and tell 

you how to get there, and you’re like, “No.” If this is really, really an easy fix because we can diversify, I 

think, if we put the effort into it, we can diversify. But right now, I cannot attract African American 

candidates. I can’t. And in the state of Florida, these numbers aren’t really accurate, but let’s just say in 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2018 or 2019, 3,500 people graduated from the state academy and were certified police officers. Of that 

35, 75 percent were White, 20 percent were Hispanic, 5 percent were African American. 10 years earlier, 

that number may have been 11 percent African American. 

So, over the past decade, the number in Florida, the number of African American candidates is 

consistently dropping. And I can’t get an answer of how do we reverse that. Conversely, the number of 

Hispanics is starting to grow, and the number of women is starting to grow, but African Americans are 

more increasingly turned off by law enforcement. 

Donelan 

50:59 

What have you done so far? Because I’m sure that’s the same story for everyone, quite frankly. 

Chitwood 

51:03 

We partner with a Historically Black College, which is Bethune-Cookman University. You know, I use one 

of their outstanding professors to teach implicit bias and do community workshops with us. And I get to 

go into class and talk, and they look at you and tell you, “Yeah, we’re going to apply,” and they’re not 

doing it. We go to the military, you know? And that goes back to learning the history of our country. You 

know, I ask all of my recruit classes, “Anybody ever hear of Bull Connor?” There’s crickets in the room. 

You know, they’re 23, 24, 28-year-old kids. They don’t know who Bull Connor is and you got to tell them. 

And they say, you know, when you go in the minority community, you got to think of this because there 

are still people alive who remember that. I’m on a panel on Saturday to discuss lynching, that there was 

a sheriff in this county that a Black suspect disappeared and was found dead, and nobody knows how he 

got dead. All they know is the sheriff’s deputy was transporting him from point A to point B; he didn’t 

make it to point B, and he ended up dead. This was like 1940-something. And nobody ever went to jail. 

Nothing ever happened to anybody. And there are people alive today in Daytona Beach who lived when 

that happened. 

Donelan 

52:15 

And, you know, you bring up a great point. I mean, I think that our leaders, whether it’s law 

enforcement, et cetera, you do need to know your community’s history because there are long 

memories and it’s the foundation on which the community is built, you know? Again, right, wrong or 

indifferent, this is part of our history and if you don’t know the history, how do you move forward, 

right? 

Chitwood 

52:34 

Exactly. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Donelan 

52:36 

So, you have such a wealth of experience. You have been leading from the front, to put it very plainly. 

Could you leave any words of advice to your fellow colleagues about what they can do, what they need 

to keep in mind, any advice as they try and drive changes to their own organizations’ cultures? 

Chitwood 

52:59 

Yeah. Change is never easy. And whether you’re elected or appointed, you have a very short window to 

make change. So, if you think by going with the status quo or I’ll practice the ostrich style of police 

management—just put my head in the sand and say it doesn’t exist—your tenure’s going to be short. If 

you go out and you’re bold and innovative and creative, your tenure’s going to be short. So why not be 

bold, innovative, and creative, and leave your organization better than you found it? Because if you 

think you’re going to stay around and be a chief or sheriff for 20 years, it’s not going to happen. So, you 

were given an opportunity: Lead, and lay the foundation, and push your organization to be a better 

organization than it was when you got there; in the long run, that’s what all this is about. It’s going to 

help our community and our society in the long run. 

Donelan 

53:52 

And I got to say, Sheriff, I think your messages about your philosophy on transparency and timeliness 

are so key right now; that if they’re making decisions based on being as transparent as possible and as 

timely as possible, they really can’t go wrong. I mean, I think you have shown that and demonstrated 

that through your entire career. 

Chitwood 

54:14 

I agree, you can’t... Like I said, the cover up is always worse than a crime. You make a mistake, you admit 

it. “Hey, we made a mistake. We’ve got to fix this together.” But when you cover it up or try to hide it or 

try to mitigate it, you’re in for a world of hurt. 

Donelan 

54:26 

So, if any one of our listeners would like to get in touch with you, is there a way that they could do that? 

Chitwood 

54:31 

Yep. I used to be a lot faster at responding to my emails, but I get so many of them— 

Donelan 

54:36 

Yeah. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Chitwood 

54:37 

—and sometimes it takes me a couple days to catch up. They can email me at MChitwood, C-H-I-T-W-OO-D-at-vcso.us. So that’s the initials for Volusia County Sheriff’s Office, mchitwood@vcso.us. 

Donelan 

54:56 

Listen, I’ve got to tell you, I thoroughly enjoyed this talk with you. Thank you. Thank you so much for 

taking the time out of your schedule. Really, really appreciate it. 

Chitwood 

55:04 

Thank you, Jennifer. I really appreciate the questions. 

Donelan 

55:07 

Absolutely. Well, best of luck in everything that you’re doing. We’ll be watching in awe, I’m sure. And I 

want to thank our listeners for joining us on The Beat. 

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55:19 

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56:17 

The opinions contained herein are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official 

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products, or services should not be considered an endorsement by the authors or the U.S. Department 

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