# RECEIVED JAN0

## I**201~** 

## HEARINGDOCKET 

# '"IGINAL U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION

- - - - X In the Matter of: 1

TYLER PENNYWITT, Docket No.: FAA-2013-0716 Respondent.

- - - X U.S. Department of Transportation Office ofHearings, M-20 1200 New JerseyAvenue, S.E. (Ell-310) Washington, D.C. 20590 Thursday, December 12, 2013 SCHEDULING CONFERENCE (TELEPHONIC) The above-entitledmatter came on for hearing at 10:03 a.m., pursuant to notice. BEFORE: HON. J.E. SULLIVAN, U.S. Administrative Law Judge

Diversified.ReportingServices,Inc. 1101SixteenthStreet,NW SecondFloor Washington,DC 20036 (202)467-9200APPEARANCES: For the Agency: CHRISTOPHER R. STEVENSON, ESQ. (via telephone) FederalAviationAdministration Office of Regional Counsel SouthernRegion, AS0-7 P.O. Box 20636 Atlanta, Georgia 30320

(404) 305-5200 For the Respondent: TYLER PENNYWITT, pro se (via telephone) 4483 Hanover Park Drive Jacksonville, Florida 32224 (904) 252-1356 Observer: CODY L. SMITH, ESQ., AttorneyAdvisor U.S. Department of Transportation Office of Hearings, M-20 1200 New JerseyAvenue, S.E. Washington, D.C. 20590

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1 P R 0 C E E D I N G S 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the record in the 3 matter of Tyler Pennywitt. This is Docket Number FAA4 2013-0716. Today is Thursday, December 12, 2013, and 5 the parties have convened for a CR 16 litigation 6 scheduling conference. The claimant, which is the FAA, 7 is representedby its attorney of record, Christopher 8 R. Stevenson. The respondent, Mr. Tyler Pennywitt, is 9 present, representing himself. And present at the 10 Office of Hearings, sitting in as an observer only, is 11 Mr. Cody L. Smith, an attorney-advisor with this 12 office. 13 Goodmorning to you all. Also, justmention 14 that on October 22nd, 2013, I issued an order setting 15 Rule 16 "Litigation Scheduling Conference" and 16 directing a Rule 26(f) planning and submission. On 17 page 1 of that two-page order, there was a direction to 18 the parties to convene privately, prior to today, and 19 conduct a Rule 26(f) planningmeeting, and then submit 20 a jointlyproposed scheduling and discoveryplan no 21 later than Thursday, December 5, 2013. 22 None has been submitted, and I've hadno

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1 contact from either party individually about proposals 2 if no agreement was reached. So I'll turn to you 3 first, Mr. Stevenson. Is there some reason there 4 hasn't been a CR 26(f) planning and submission to this 5 court? 6 MR. STEVENSON: Mr. Pennywitt and I did have a 7 discussion. We did come up with a joint scheduling 8 plan and it shouldhave been sent in. This is normally 9 the part where I would look at my file andpull out the 10 copy that was sent out and to confirmwhether itwas 11 sent out. Unfortunately, myphysical copy of the file 12 is stuck in the file retriever, which is down for 13 maintenance of some sort right now, so I can't confirm 14 that. But, apparently, that was not sent in. I 15 apologize to you andMr. Pennywitt. We did discuss one 16 and he had signed it and sent itback to me to send it 17 to you under both of our signatures. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, letme askMr. 19 Pennywitt. Do you have a copy of that with you today? 20 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Can you tellme, just 22 briefly, what it says without reading it? Can youjust

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1 tellme generallywhat your deadlines or dates that you 2 agreed to are? 3 MR. PENNYWITT: Okay. What I have here is a 4 "Joint Proposed Scheduling Discovery Plan,- and 5 pursuant to your Order, I guess the next date would be 6 January 9, 2014, deadline for initial disclosures. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What else does it say? 8 MR. PENNYWITT: January 23rd, 2014, deadline 9 for issuance of initial discovery requests. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 11 MR. PENNYWITT: March 3rd, 2014, throughMarch 12 28, 2014, depositions

-- 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Go ahead. 14 MR. PENNYWITT:

-- as necessary in 15 parentheses. April 11, 2014, close of discovery. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Please continue. 17 MR. PENNYWITT: May the 2nd, 2014, dispositive 18 motions deadline. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Got it. What's next? 20 MR. PENNYWITT: May 23rd, 2014, deadline to 21 respond to dispositive motions. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Keep going, please.

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1 MR. PENNYWITT: And June 6, 2014, deadline for 2 replies in support of dispositive motions. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Got it. Anything else? 4 MR. PENNYWITT: And then it says, "This 5 schedule shouldpermit a motion conference and 6 appropriate time for prehearing submissions in or after 7 late August 2014.n 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And is there anything inthat 9 joint submissionbefore you that talks about a 10 preferredtrial time or length of trial, any of that? 11 MR. PENNYWITT: No, Your Honor. That. is it. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let's talk a little 13 bit about that, and then also chat about some other 14 things. 15 Mr. Pennywitt, we looked up your phone number 16 in order to contact you to let you know about the 17 telephone conference today, just a little reminder 18 message. And so I justwant to confirmthat this 19 telephone number that I have right now is a preferred 20 phone number as your number for these proceedings. 21 It's (904) 223-3572. Is that yourpreferredphone 22 number for contactbyboth this office and, say, Mr.

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1 Stevenson? 2 MR. PENNYWITT: That is myhome number. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 4 MR. PENNYWITT: Again, that's if you really 5 need to get-- I mean if you call that number, I'll get 6 the message. But, again, my phone contact shouldbe my 7 cell phone. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what number is that? 9 MR. PENNYWITT: Somy cell phone number is are 10 code 904-252-1356. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll repeat that and I'll 12 simply list that as your phone number of record from 13 here on out. 904-252-1356. 14 MR. PENNYWITT: Correct. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have a fax 16 number that you would like us to use in the event that 17 we have an order that we want faxed to you? 18 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Fax number? 20 MR. PENNYWITT: Bear withme, Your Honors. 21 I'mlooking it up right now. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

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1 MR. PENNYWITT: My work fax number wouldbe 2 area code 904-928-0909. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm going to repeat that. 4 904-928-0909. Is that correct? 5 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Since this is a work 7 fax number, do you want communications coming from this 8 office to your work? Is that acceptable to you? 9 MR. PENNYWITT: That is acceptable. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me ask you another 11 question, Mr. Pennywitt, and then I'mgoing to turn 12 back to the counsel for the FAA. You had indicated in 13 the answer that you filed on November 25, 2013, that 14 you didnot believe it was right to be charged twice 15 for the same crime resulting from the same conduct. I 16 don't know anything about that. Can youbriefly 17 describe to what you're referring? 18 MR. PENNYWITT: I am referring to double 19 jeopardy, meaning that

-- 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, I got that, but I don't 21 know what has happened to you in the past. 22 thing

--

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1 MR. PENNYWITT: I have alreadybeen sentenced 2 and convicted on the federal level for sending 3 aiming

-- a laser light at an aircraft. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. When did that 5 MR. PENNYWITT: And there's a federal charge 6 out there that I have alreadybeen convicted of. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. When was that 8 conviction entered? 9 MR. PENNYWITT: I was -- August the 2nd, Your 10 Honor. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Of this year, 2013? 12 MR. PENNYWITT: Correct. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. As part of that 14 conviction, were you ordered to pay any kinds of fines 15 or fees or costs? 16 MR. PENNYWITT: It was determinedby the court 17 that I was unable to pay any fines. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So the matterwas 19 consideredby the court at that time? 20 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Were you representedby a 22 federal public defender?

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1 MR. PENNYWITT: No, Your Honor. It was -- I 2 hired an attorney to representme. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Stevenson, letme 4 turn to you. Were you involved in that particular 5 proceeding, or were you aware of it? 6 MR. STEVENSON: I was not involved in it. I 7 was aware that it existed and I have become I am 8 more informed about it now, because at some point in 9 this proceeding, Mr. Pennywitt's criminal attorneyhad 10 contactedme about whether or not itwas appropriate 11 for there to be a separate civil, tobe a civil action 12 going on. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 14 MR. STEVENSON: But during the course, the 15 process we go throughwhere we issue a notice, and 16 issue a final notice, it is my understanding thatMr. 17 Pennywitt's criminal attorneys made a strategic 18 decision that itwas best to not participate in that 19 part of this

-- of the process -- because of what was 20 going on inthe criminal case. So I didn't become 21 fully informed about what was going on in the criminal 22 case until afterMr. Pennywitthadpled guilty andbeen

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1 convicted. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Pennywitt, letme 3 ask you this about thatparticularmatter that you've 4 already experienced in the District Court. Were you 5 sentencedto any kind ofjail time, either to be served 6 or to be suspended? 7 MR. PENNYWITT: I was arrestedtwice; one by 8 the local sheriff's office, and then I was indictedby 9 a grandjury and arrestedby the federal agencies. But 10 I did spend two days injail, as far as jail time. 11 Beyond that, no. I was not sentencedto further jail 12 time. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Sometimes when people 14 appear before the criminal court and go home, they 15 don't realize that they've been sentenced to time, 16 given credit for time servedwith the rest of the time 17 suspended during a probationaryperiod. Do you know 18 whether or not youhave suspendedjail time hanging 19 over your head for a certainprobationperiod? 20 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, I was sentencedto one 21 year probation and 50 hours community service. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Andhave you finished your 50

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1 hours with community service, yet? 2 MR. PENNYWITT: No, Your Honor. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What type of service are you 4 anticipating doing, or are you doing it this time? 5 MR. PENNYWITT: Currently, I have not done any 6 community service, but I probablywill, starting 7 probablyduring Christmas time duringmy time-off work 8 at the homeless center. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say at the 10 homeless center, does this mean that you would be like 11 servingmeals? 12 MR. PENNYWITT: Correct, or good will. I 13 haven't reallydecidedwhat agency I'm going to do the 14 community service for yet. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is this something that you 16 have to figure out and set up for yourself, or is there 17 a parole, a probation officer at the District Court 18 working with you? 19 MR. PENNYWITT: There is a probation officer 20 at the court. I do have a probation officer that I am 21 working with. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you know for your one-year

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1 probationaryperiodwhether or not there is any type of 2 further jail time hanging over your head in the event 3 that you fail for whatever reason to complywith the 4 conditions of service that have been ordered? 5 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, I believe so. I mean I 6 have to complete the 50 hours of community service 7 assigned tome byAugust the 2nd of next year. Failure 8 to do so could result injail time. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And howmuchjail time do you 10 recall, if you know wouldbe hanging over? 11 MR. PENNYWITT: That I do not know, Your 12 Honor. l3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have a copy of 14 the judgment and sentence that was issuedby the 15 District Court onAugust 2nd, 2013, that describes all 16 of this? 17 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. I do have 18 that, but I do not have it in front ofme. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Stevenson, do you 20 have a copy of that material? 21 MR. STEVENSON: I have documentation

-- I had 22 some documentation from the criminal docket, because

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1 after receivingMr. Pennywitt's answer, I had asked if 2 I could get some of that. Unfortunately, that wouldbe 3 inthe file which is stuck in a broken retriever right 4 now. So I don't have anyway to look at it. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, okay. I got that. Mr. 6 Stevenson, letme ask you this. Does that information 7 in and of itself have any impact upon how youmaybe s looking at this case? 9 MR. STEVENSON: I'mnot sure inwhat way 10 you're asking about. I didn't mean to in effect help

- 11 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, letme try and clarify 13 it for you. When I receivedMr. Pennywitt's answer 14 filed on November 25, 2013, I was advised for the first 15 time through his answer that there hadbeen a separate 16 and independent criminal action taken against him. I 17 didn't know that before. It appeared from our earlier 18 discussion this morning that you may not have 19 participated in that directly, and the filing of the 20 civil actionmay have occurredprior to the entry of an 21 August 2nd, 2013, judgment and sentence in the District 22 Court.

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1 Given that, I'minterestedto knowwhether the 2 August 2nd, 2013, judgment and sentence is something 3 that you have an interest in looking at for purposes of 4 settlement discussions withMr. Pennywitt. If so, then 5 it wouldmake sense to me to continue the CR 16 6 scheduling conference for a short period of time so the 7 two of you can discuss this privately. If it's not of 8 interest to you, then that's informative tome, and I 9 can askMr. Pennywitt to sendme a copy of the material 10 and then start scheduling the parties inthis case for 11 litigation. 12 MR. STEVENSON: I do not think it is of 13 further interest tome with regards to the settlement. 14 I've spoken withMr. Pennywitt, even if I did not have 15 the copy of the particularjudgment. At that point in 16 time, when I spoke to him, I was aware that there was a 17 judgment. My understanding is

-- and I couldbe wrong 18 about this, and so youmay want to check with Mr. 19 Pennywitt. 20 But, my understanding of this is thatMr. 21 Pennywitt is concerned that anything that he admits or 22 would agree to inthis case could interfere with any

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1 sort ofpotential appeal or further action in his 2 criminal case. And so that in addition to thinking it 3 was unfair for there to be a separate civil action and 4 criminal action, I thinkhe didnot want to enter into 5 any sort of agreement that wouldbe an admission of 6 having done something wrong over here, whichwouldbe 7 the sort of terms that we wouldneed to resolve the 8 case in a settlement. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me turnback to 10 you, Mr. Pennywitt, andjust ask you a littlebit about 11 that. What kind of appellate issue, if any, are you 12 preserving for your District Court action, if in fact 13 you have a conviction at this point? Did you go to 14 trial on this, or was there a plea entered? 15 MR. PENNYWITT: There was a plea. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Was it a guiltyplea 17 or a 

### nolo contendereplea? Do you recall? 18 MR. PENNYWITT: I believe it was a guilty 19 plea, Your Honor. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Typically, when some 21 enters a guiltyplea in lieu of going to trial, you 22 basically cut off appellate issues with entering that

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1 type ofplea. Do you have some type of appellate issue 2 that you're trying to preserve at this point? 3 MR. PENNYWITT: I do. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Is it something that 5 you're willing to discuss today? Or would you prefer 6 not to discuss it? 7 MR. PENNYWITT: I wouldprefer not to. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. All right. Letme ask 9 you this. Wouldyoube willing to sendme a copy of 10 your judgment and sentence in the District Court case? 11 And you don't have to. I can ask you for it, but you 12 can decline. 13 MR. PENNYWITT: I mean -- 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you want to think about 15 it? Do you want tojust think about that request? 16 MR. PENNYWITT: Well, can't youjust subpoena 17 it? I mean -- 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I'm

-- 19 MR. PENNYWITT: OrMr. Stevenson does. I 20 think that's up to him. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You're welcome to say 22 no, and I'll take that as a no at this point.

DiversifiedReportingServices,Inc. 1101SixteenthStreet,NWSecondFloor Washington,DC 20036 (202)467-9200 I'mnot18

1 a litigatingparty, and so I generally don't subpoena 2 things from either of the parties. Typically, i.f 3 there's something of interest to the court, I'll ask 4 you about it, which I've done at this point. Letme 5 ask you this, Mr. Pennywitt, and then I'm going to turn 6 to Mr. Stevenson again. You had indicated in the 7 discovery discussion that the two of you had that there 8 is a suggestion of January 9, 2014, for the exchange of 9 initial discovery, and then a January 23, 2014, 10 deadline for general discovery. Do you know what that 11 means? 12 MR. PENNYWITT: To be honest, Your Honor, no. 13 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay. 15 MR. PENNYWITT: I don't know. I thought that 16 me andMr. Stevenson talked about it, but I'mnot an 17 attorney and

-- 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: No, I understand that. I 19 just wanted to get a sense of howmuch you knew ofwhat 20 this involved. 21 MR. PENNYWITT: I mean it's my understanding 22 at initial disclosures Mr. Stevenson sends me a request

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1 for documentation, and then I can request fromhim 2 documentation is what I got out of it. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I will explain 4 what all of this means in due time. Letme ask you 5 this. Do you know what depositions are and have you 6 everbeen involved in one? 7 MR. PENNYWITT: I knowwhat a deposition is, 8 yes. I have never been involved in one. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. How about with 10 dispositive motions? Do you know what those are and 11 what theymight entail? 12 MR. PENNYWITT: I think those dispositive 13 motions are rebuttals to depositions, or rebuttals of 14 some sort, I think. It would be my guess. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That helps me. That 16 gives me an idea ofwhat we need to discuss. Mr. 17 Stevenson, let me turn back to you. Howmuch time or 18 howmany witnesses do you anticipate you would call if 19 this case went to trial? 20 MR. STEVENSON: If this case went to trial, 21 and I had to prove everything from scratchup, and 22 obviously there's going to be a judgmentmotion from

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1 the administratorbased on-- we're talking to the 2 administrator from the FAA based onMr. Pennywitt's 3 guiltyplea in the criminal case, ifbased on nothing 4 else. But if we had to prove everything at the 5 hearing, I would anticipate calling at least two 6 witnesses. 7 I would have to double-check to see if there 8 was a third, and those wouldbe the police officers who 9 were in the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office helicopter at 10 the time of the laser incident, and then a police 11 officer

-- any separate police officer

-- who 12 interviewedMr. Pennywitt. I apologize. I would also 13 call the FAA investigator who put together the package, 14 as that would be a potential witness, possiblyjust 15 about documentation exchangedbetween the investigator 16 andMr. Pennywitt's attorneys. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So would that be a total of 18 almost four, potentially four people? 19 MR. STEVENSON: Potentially four. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Andhowmuch time do 21 you think you wouldneed for the presentation of your 22 case if everything went to trial?

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1 MR. STEVENSON: I believe thatmy direct 2 examinationwouldbe half a day, perhaps, for the 3 actual presentation of the testimony. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And where would you 5 anticipate this case being tried? 6 MR. STEVENSON: I believe that in 7 Jacksonville, Florida, wouldbe the best location. 8 That wouldbe the most convenient for the Sheriff's 9 office, andunless I'mmistaken, though, Mr. Pennywitt 10 also still resides there. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Pennywitt, let's 12 turn to you, and I'm going to ask you the same kinds of 13 questions. Can you identify for me, as best you can at 14 this point, howmany witnesses you'll be calling in 15 your responsive case at trial? 16 MR. PENNYWITT: If itwere to go to trial, I 17 guess I would call the JSO helicopter pilots as 18 witnesses. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say "JSO," what 20 does that stand for, please? 21 22 MR. PENNYWITT: Jacksonville Shares Office. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So one pilot

-- and

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1 would there be someone like yourself testifying as 2 well? 3 MR. PENNYWITT: Possibly. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Anyone else? 5 MR. PENNYWITT: Uh. That's all I can think of 6 at this time, Your Honor. I think that wouldbe it. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Have you ever 8 testified at a trial before? Or at a hearing

-- excuse 9 me. 10 MR. PENNYWITT: No, Your Honor. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Have you everparticipated as 12 a helper or as a lead inpresenting trialmaterial at a 13 hearing or a semi-formal trial? 14 MR. PENNYWITT: No, Your Honor. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, this will be 16 your first chance for both if we have the trial. And I 17 don't want to kid you. It's a lot of work, but that's 18 okay. There are people who have done itbefore, and 19 others who will do it after. But you want tomake sure 20 that you are crossing all your T's and dotting your I's 21 throughout this process. So how much time do you think 22 it would take for you to present one pilot and your own

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1 testimony, if you so choose to testify? How long do 2 you think itwould take to ask questions of your 3 witness and then to give a narrative discussion of your 4 own testimony? Do you have any idea? 5 MR. PENNYWITT: Two days at the most. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Two days is a very 7 long time. Typically

-- 8 MR. PENNYWITT: Half a day? 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yeah. Why don't we suggest 10 maybe a half a day at this point, andwe can kind of 11 play a littlebit with that as we go along. 12 MR. PENNYWITT: Okay. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Stevensonhas suggested 14 Jacksonville, Florida, as the place that we all convene 15 for a hearing. Is that acceptable to you? 16 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And let's talk a 18 little bit about discovery. I know you andMr. 19 Stevensonhad a discussion, but I'm going to reiterate 20 some of the things you probablyhave already talked 21 about. Discovery is the formal phrase that we in the 22 legal field used to talk about the exchange of

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1 documents and informationbetween the parties who are 2 in dispute. 3 Mr. Stevenson, who is your friend across the 4 aisle, has information about the case, just as you, his s friend across the aisle, have information that you know 6 about the case. Discovery is the process bywhich the 7 two of you discover from each other what that s information is and how you think it is helpful to you 9 or not helpful to you. So there are several different 10 stages of discovery. The first stage is the initial ll discovery, and this is a stage that is highlighted and 12 described in the Rules ofCivil Procedure and in the l3 regulations that the FAA uses to govern these types of l4 cases. lS Initial discovery is discoverywhere no one l6 has to request anything. You just give it to the other l7 side, and you do so essentially right after the case is l8 filed. Do you have access to a law library, Mr. l9 Pennywitt? 20 MR. PENNYWITT: Law library, I have access to 21 the Internet. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Oh, perfect.

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1 MR. PENNYWITT: Not at a law library; I guess 2 you could consider the Internet a law library? 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The Internet is one of the 4 biggest law libraries I've ever seen. s MR. PENNYWITT: Okay. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You can lookup almost 7 anything on the Internet. And one of the things that 8 we're going tobe talking about is initial discovery, 9 and that is governed by Rule 26(a)(1), the Civil Rule 10 ofProcedure 26(a)(1). And I willbe issuing a written 11 order that I'll send to both you andMr. Stevenson, and 12 I will give you some citations to legal rules and to 13 FAA regulations so that you had them in front of you 14 and you can look themup on the web. 15 If you Google them, you shouldbe able to find 16 them fairly easily. And that will help you as you go 17 down this path as your own attorney. Rule 2 6(a)(1) 18 simply talks about how the party to a litigation should 19 provide without a request the name and address and 20 phone number of any individual likelyto have relevant 21 information about the case to the other side. And we 22 know that you do, andMr. Stevenson already has your

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1 name, address andphone number. So that's taken care 2 of. It sound likeMr. Stevenson already knows about 3 the pilot, but if you're planning to call him and you 4 know his name, address andphone number already, you s should identifyhimto Mr. Stevenson after we finish 6 this phone call. 7 If you have documents or any kind of 8 electronically stored information that's relevant to 9 the case, then youmust identify that as well. So 10 those are the two main things that are incorporatedby 11 initial discovery. General discovery is a little 12 different. General discovery is where you have to 13 request information. It's not automatically given to 14 you, nor are you expected to automatically give it to 15 Mr. Stevenson. 16 So general discovery wouldbe asking questions 17 through a form called interrogatories. It wouldbe 18 asking for admissions in the form of a request for 19 admission. It wouldbe settingup depositions of 20 certain witnesses to have a court reporter present 21 outside the presence of the court and asking that 22 witness questions andhaving it court reported for use

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1 at trial later on. It would be all kinds of different 2 things like that, and, in general discovery, there are 3 some time limitations that are important. And one of 4 those time limitations involves objecting to request 5 for discovery as being outside the scope of reasonable 6 requests, objecting to a certain request because it's 7 overbroad. There are ways to limit discovery through 8 objections. 9 There are also important time periods to look 10 at in responding to discovery. Typically, the response 11 time is 30 days fromthe date that you receive a 12 request for general discovery, but for some things, 13 especially for requests for admission, the time period 14 is a little shorter, usually. And I'm going to check 15 my rule book for the FAA. It looks like in the FAA's 16 regulations the time period for requests for admissions 17 is also 30 days, so 30 days for all of that. 18 So I will be setting up some time periods for 19 you andMr. Stevenson about that. Depositions don't 20 always

-- aren't always necessary in every case, and 21 22 they're expensive. So youmight want to think about that. Even though you are representing yourself right

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1 now, that doesn't mean you can't informally ask someone 2 to help you. I have known many litigants who have a 3 consultant or a helper at hand that they can call and 4 ask questions. It's less expensive than hiring an 5 attorney to represent them full time. So youmight 6 want to consider that option, among others. 7 You are also welcome to hire an attorney at 8 any time, but the sooner you hire, if that's what you 9 want to do, the better it is, because the attorney then 10 has more time to work with you and withMr. Stevenson 11 in a comfortable time periodprior to trial to get the 12 case ready. In addition, while you're preparing for 13 trial, you should also be thinking always about 14 settlement. That is not specific to this case. It is 15 a general rule for all cases. 16 People who begin to exchange information and 17 to learn about each other's cases often find that they 18 are not as far apart as they originallythought they 19 were in trying to resolve disputes. And so you want to 20 always think in terms of whether new information or a 21 more careful review of information leads you to be 22 closer to holding hands across the table thannot.

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1 People typically save time andmoney ifthey find ways 2 to settle. Not all disputes settle, and that's 3 perfectly acceptable, but you want to keep that option 4 open for yourself. 5 So let's talk about the close of discovery. 6 You have indicated a potential April 11, 2014, closure 7 date. What thatmeans is by that proposeddate you and 8 Mr. Stevenson will have finished all exchange of 9 information upon request, and that you are satisfiedby 10 April 11, 2014, that you have learned everything you 11 possibly can learn through requests from the other side 12 of what their strengths and weaknesses are. Shortly 13 after that, you've presented a schedule for dispositive 14 motion, May 2nd, 2014, for the filing of a dispositive 15 motion, May 23, 2014, for answering such a motion, and 16 June 6, 2014, for a final reply. 17 Dispositive motions are motions that are made 18 to try and take the case off the court's trial 19 calendar. Dispositivemotions seek to get a final 20 rulingwithout anyone going to trial. Apartywho has 21 learned a great deal in discoverymay find that there 22 is no issue in dispute and that the disputemaybe

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1 resolvedby a rulingwithout anyone appearing in court 2 or testifying. So dispositive motions are very 3 important and they can completely resolve all issues, 4 or they can resolve some issues. 5 For example, in the kind of case that has been 6 filed against you, Mr. Pennywitt, there are two, major 7 issues. One, whether you have committed an FAA 8 violation as allegedby the FAA in its August 30, 2013, 9 complaint. And, number two, whether the proposed civil 10 penalty of $11,000, as proposedby the FAA, is an 11 appropriate penalty, according to howpenalties are 12 assessed. So, for example, in your type of case, I 13 often see the FAA file a motion for partial summary 14 judgment. The FAA will move for judgment on the 15 violation itself and say there is no dispute based on 16 all the exchange of discovery that the violation 17 occurred. 18 There is a dispute, however, about the 19 proposed civil penalty. So we will ask the court to 20 enter a finding by dispositive motion that the jet 21 violation occurred, and completely take that off the 22 table at trial. As a result, what we want is to only

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1 go to trial on the proposed fine. We have a dispute. 2 There's a possible trial issue there, and so we still 3 want to go to trial on that proposed civil penalty. 4 That canhappen andhas happened inmy caseload. And 5 sometimes I grant those motions and sometimes I don't. 6 When I granted the motion for partial summary 7 judgment, then that first issue

-- the issue of whether 8 the violation occurred

-- is decided before the parties 9 ever show up for trial, and we don't even talk about 10 it. Sometimes, when a motion for summaryjudgment has 11 been filed, it's been filed about everything-- both 12 the violation and the proposed civil penalty. And 13 sometimes I've granted those and sometimes I've denied 14 them. In any event, if you or Mr. Stevenson file a 15 motion for a dispositive ruling, usually called a 16 summaryjudgmentmotion, those are very important 17 motions, and you should file an answer of some kind or 18 a reply. And a reply is a continuing dialog, 19 essentially. 20 So the proponent of themotion filed initially 21 --let's say, if I adopt your timeframe

-- onMay 2nd, 22 2014, orbefore, the person answering or the party

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l answering the motion filed an answer byMay 23rd, and 2 then the movingparty -- the partythat had filed the 3 motion to begin with

-- gets to write a final reply and 4 gets to put in a second filing to talk about what the 5 answer said andwhy they disagree with it. And that 6 wouldbe if I accept the timeline, June 6, 2014. I 7 will also set up a telephone conference in which I take s argument from the parties about dispositive motions, 9 and then we can talk about the trial as well. lO Mr. Pennywitt, I've spent a lot of time ll talking a littlebit about these things with you. Do 12 you have any questions, so far? l3 MR. PENNYWITT: About what you discussed? No, l4 Your Honor. lS JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Does itmake sense in l6 a general way? l7 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. lB JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What I will do then is l9 I like to take a look atmy calendar and see when I 20 have time for trial. And then I'mgoing to backtrack 21 from there, because if I don't have trial available 22 right after June 6, 2014, we maybe able to stretch

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1 some of these other dates a littlebit for the parties' 2 comfort. So, Mr. Stevenson, turning to you, didyou 3 have anyparticularmonth inwhich you wanted to start 4 looking for a trial date? 5 MR. STEVENSON: I don't think we had a 6 particularmonth. In setting that June 6th, my 7 anticipation had been that usually after that point in 8 time, there wouldbe at least a month and a halfwith 9 how I interactedpreviouslyin Your Honor's cases for 10 prehearing submissions and a prehearing conference. So 11 I had anticipated itbeing at least a month and a half 12 or so from that date where we might have

-- I am 13 occupied in the middle ofAugust. 14 So for me, I had anticipated that lateAugust 15 or September wouldbe when we might be able to begin 16 looking at hearing. If Your Honor actuallyhad time in 17 July andwanted to schedule it then, then I'm available 18 in July as well. 19 20 21 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, actually, I have hearings in July and August. Those two months are booked. And, September, I have a two-week commitment and then another trial. So I'm actually looking at

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1 October, actually, about the week of October 20th, 2 startingwith you, Mr. Stevenson. 3 MR. STEVENSON: I amnot scheduled for 4 anything the week of October 20th. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Pennywitt, does the week 6 of October 20th, 2014, look good for you? 7 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, YourHonor. B JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Stevenson, you'll 9 be traveling fromAtlanta, Georgia. Is that correct? 10 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. Yes, Your 11 Honor. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have a preference for 13 days of trial? And I'mgoing to suggest that we set 14 two-day, just to be on the safe side. We may onlyneed 15 one, but I think two days wouldbe erring on the side 16 of caution, and I'd like to do that at this time. 17 MR. STEVENSON: My onlypreference wouldbe, I 1B think, what wouldbe the standard, which is to not 19 schedule the hearing, to start on Mondaymorning or to 20 go through to Friday to try to keep the travel 21 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. It sounds like (A telephone recorded announcement interrupted

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l the proceeding.) 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Folks, I just got a message 3 from the conference operator saying we needed to extend 4 the time. Mr. Smithwho's been at the Office of 5 Hearings, Hearing Room, has just stepped out. He's 6 going to contact the conference operator to extend the 7 time so we have enough time to finish this conference. s So, and I will let you know when he returns to the 9 hearing room. So how about ifwe set the trial for lO October 21 and October 22, which are Tuesday and ll Wednesday, that leavingMonday the 20th and Thursday l2 the 23rd for travel dates. Mr. Stevenson, would that l3 work for you? l4 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. l5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. AndMr. Pennywitt, l6 would that work for you? l7 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. l8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Excellent. So let's l9 talk a littlebit about the time period. I have no 20 problem adopting all of the periods of time that you've 2l givenme. But, what I want to do is schedule a 22 telephone conference for the summary judgment or

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1 dispositivemotion, and then I also want to checkwith 2 you about othermatters. 3 Let's talk first about the telephone motion 4 conference after June 6, 2014. I'm going to take a 5 look atmy calendar and see what I have available. Mr. 6 Stevenson, startingwith you, do you have time 7 available the week of June 23rd, 2014, for

-- I'mgoing 8 to say -- a one and a half-hour telephone conference 9 for any dispositive motions thatmight be filed. 10 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. I'mpretty 11 clear on that week. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: AndMr. Pennywitt, how about 13 you? Would that week work for you for us to start 14 looking for a second telephone conference time? 15 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, ma'am. Yes, Your Honor, 16 that will work. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have a 18 preference, Mr. Pennywitt, for morning or afternoon? 19 Does itmatter to you? 20 MR. STEVENSON: It does notmatter. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Stevenson, any preference 22 from your side?

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1 MR. STEVENSON: I have a slightpreference for 2 the afternoon. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then let's plan on 4 Thursday. That wouldbe June 26th, 2014, and let's set 5 this from 2 to 3:30, just to be on the safe side. And 6 I'll note that Mr. Smithhas come back. He's nodding 7 to me, and our conference time has been extended, 8 accordingly. So on June 26, 2014, from 2 to 3:30, 9 we'll have the dispositive motion conference. And, 10 folks, what I'mgoing to do

-- and I do this all the 11 time

-- is that if nobody files any dispositive 12 motions, I will keep the telephone conference schedule 13 onmy calendar and we will convene on June 26, 2014, 14 for a prehearing status conference. 15 So even if no one filed any dispositive 16 motions at all, keep that on your calendar and we'll 17 convene, just to check in and see if there are any 18 matters that need to be addressed. If you've reached a 19 settlement, you can tellme at that time. If there are 20 some unexpected detours that you've taken that you need 21 to appriseme of, you can tellme about that, too. So 22 after June 26, 2014, we need to then talk about whether

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1 or not the parties would like to have a final 2 settlement conference before October. And we also need 3 to talk about an exchange of witness list and exhibits 4 prior to the October trial time. 5 Mr. Stevenson, letme turn to you first. We 6 have a hearing scheduled to begin on October 21, 2014. 7 When do you want to have your list of exhibits

-- I'm 8 sorry list of witnesses and your exhibits exchanged? 9 Do you prefer a three- to four-week time prior to the 10 hearing, or some otherperiod? 11 MR. STEVENSON: Three to four weeks before the 12 hearingwouldwork for me, especially, inmy case, two 13 weeks before the hearing I'm scheduled to have a 14 hearing in front of Your Honor in another case. So, 15 effectively, two weeks before the hearing is three or 16 four weeks before the hearing anyway. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yeah. That wouldmean about 18 September 23rd, 2014. Mr. Pennywitt, would that work 19 for you? 20 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And when I say "list 22 of witnesses, exchange of exhibits," essentiallywhat

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1 that means is that on or before September 23rd, 2014, 2 you andMr. Stevenson would exchange a list of the 3 witnesses you're planning to call for trial and a copy 4 of all the paper exhibits that you are planning to try s and admit as evidence through your witnesses orby 6 agreement with the parties each other

-- at the 7 trial. So if you had, for example I'mjust going to 8 make something up. If you had a copy of your high 9 school diploma and you wanted to have it admitted into 10 evidence for some reason, you would have a copy of your 11 high school diploma, and you would identify it as one 12 of your exhibits and give it to Mr. Stevensonmarked as 13 "Respondent's Exhibit Number 1," so that he's fully 14 aware of what exhibits you are going to try to offer to 15 the court at trial. 16 He will be doing the same thing with you. And 17 I will have-- in the Order that I send out, I'll have 18 a little statement about what you need to serve and how 19 to serve it andhow to mark it. And, essentially, all 20 of your exhibits are pre-marked. Mr. Stevenson is 21 considered the complainant, and so his exhibits would 22 be marked C-1, C-2, C-3, 4. "ComplainantNumber 1,"

DiversifiedReportingServices,Inc. 1101SixteenthStreet,NW SecondFloor Washington,DC 20036 (202)467-92001 2 "Complainant Number 2," "Complainant Number 3 " 

### ' forth. Your exhibits, Mr. Pennywitt, wouldbe 40

and so

3 identified as R-1, R-2, R-3, et cetera, and that stands 4 for "Respondent Exhibit 1," Respondent Exhibit 2," and 5 so forth. 6 And thenwhen you come to the trial, youbring 7 more copies. Youbring three copies of your exhibits 8 for me. One copy goes to the court reporterwho will 9 be there. Two copies go tome. One is a judge's copy 10 for me, personally, and the other one is a copythat I 11 will file with the Hearing Docket when I issue my 12 decision, andthat becomes a permanent, public record. 13 Not all the exhibits that youbring are admitted 14 sometimes. Sometimes people bring 25 exhibits and they 15 onlymove for admission of five of them. 16 The only exhibits I take withme are the ones 17 that have beenmoved for admission. Sometimes I deny 18 the motion to admit, but if I deny the motion to admit, 19 I still take that exhibit, because it'sbeenmoved for 20 admission and that's part of the appellate record. But 21 the goal is to have enough exhibits and copies of 22 exhibits ready to go. Andwhen you exchange some with

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1 the opposing party, you exchange them about a month 2 ahead of time, and thenbringmore copies for the court 3 for the day of trial. So the exchange date for 4 everybody, as we've already discussed, is September s 23rd, 2014. 6 Mr. Stevenson, startingwith you, do you want 7 to have a final settlement conference after the June 8 26th, 2014, summaryjudgment conference? We could set 9 something up inAugust, 2014, or early September 2014 10 if you andMr. Pennywitt think that that wouldbe 11 helpful. What's your preference? 12 MR. STEVENSON: I do not think it wouldbe 13 helpful. I would anticipate that when or if settlement 14 becomes a possibility, because of developments inMr. 15 Pennywitt's criminal case, that we wouldbe able to 16 discuss it at that time. And if developments don't 17 permit such a discussion, then I don't think the 18 conference would affectMr. Pennywitt's decision, but 19 perhaps he disagrees. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Pennywitt, what's your 21 thought process about this? Would you like to have 22 another conference prior to exchangingwitness lists

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1 and exchange of exhibits, or do you feel comfortable 2 with the current schedule as is? It's up to you. It 3 doesn't matter tome. 4 MR. PENNYWITT: I'mokaywith the current 5 schedule, Your Honor. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. All right. And I will 7 simplynote that we have a January 9, 2014, deadline 8 for the parties to exchange initial discovery, and it 9 means between now and then. Both sides shouldbe 10 identifying for each other the names, telephone numbers 11 and addresses of theirpotential witnesses. In 12 addition, the parties shouldbe identifying for each 13 other any documentation that is relevant. And that 14 shouldbe done without request. Then on January 23rd, 15 2014, the parties should begin exchanging general 16 discovery requests, ifyou stillhave them, and that 17 can include written questions called interrogatories. 18 It can include requests for admission, which are formal 19 requests to another party to admit certain information. 20 It can include requests for certain documentation, and 21 so forth. 22 That particular general discoveryperiod runs

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1 from January 23rd, 2014, throughApril 11, 2014. So 2 the sooner you get out your request, the better it is, 3 because the opposing side has 30 days to respond. If 4 there are problems with general discovery requests for 5 any reason, I have some information in the order that 6 I'll send out to you about how to file for help from 7 the court, that I would caution each of you that before 8 you file for help you shouldbe contacting each other 9 to see if you can resolve the matter informally. And 10 that contact is called CR 37 conference, and that 11 relates to the civil rule that governs that particular 12 matter. 13 If you can't resolve it and you need the 14 court's assistance, and you want to have a telephone 15 conference, talk to each other. Find three mutually 16 agreeable dates that youmaybe available for a 17 telephone conference and then callMr. Smith, the 18 attorney advisor who works withme onmy cases, and he 19 has access tomy calendar and he can help set up a 20 telephone conference withmy calendar. And there'll be 21 an explanation about howto do that in the Order that I 22 send out to you.

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1 I will also confirmthe parties' agreements 2 thatbetweenMarch 3rd, 2014, andMarch 28, 2014, 3 depositions shouldbe taken, if necessary. In 4 addition, I'll confirmthe parties' agreements to have 5 a May 2nd, 2014, dispositive motion filing deadline; a 6 May 23rd, 2014, deadline for filing any answers to 7 dispositive motions if they're filed; and a June 6, 8 2014, deadline for filing any reply, if one is needed. 9 The parties have also agreed that June 26, 10 2014 from 2 to 3:30 p.m. is the date and time for 11 appearing before the court again to present any oral 12 arguments on dispositive motions and to answer the 13 court's questions about the same. And we have a trial 14 date set up for October 21, 2014 and October 22, 2014 15 in Jacksonville, Florida, in the event that the parties 16 do not reach settlement prior to that time. 17 And I will reiterate again, just so that we 18 all have it, that on September 23rd, 2014, the parties 19 will be exchanging a written list of witnesses and 20 theirmarked exhibits. With that, Mr. Stevenson, is 21 there anything that we need to address for you and your 22 client that we have not already done?

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1 MR. STEVENSON: The one question I would have 2 is that earlier in this conference, Your Honor, you had 3 askedMr. Pennywitt to provide some documentation from 4 his criminal case. He'd indicatedthat he did not want 5 to. Would you like the administrator to or the FAA to 6 provide the court with that documentation at this time? 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you have that 8 documentation, I would be most appreciative of 9 receiving it. You're welcome to provide it. And I 10 would also ask you if you would resend your CR 26(f) 11 materials once your computer is backup and running 12 since we never got it. l3 MR. STEVENSON: I apologize for that, Your 14 Honor, and I will resend it. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you for that 16 inquiry, and I appreciate your offer of information. 17 Anything else, Mr. Stevenson, before I turn to Mr. 18 Pennywitt? 19 MR. STEVENSON: No, Your Honor. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Pennywitt, is there 21 anything else that I can do on your behalf today or any 22 question that I can answer before we close today?

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1 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. Mr. 2 Stevenson sort ofbeatme to the punch. Regarding the 3 sentencing, you requested that document. And it kind 4 of threwme for a loop, because I thought this was just 5 a scheduling conference. Should I send that to you? I 6 guess my question is what was the purpose for that? Is 7 that going to change anything? 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That's a good question. You 9 have raised in yourmaterials a concern about double 10 jeopardy, and I shouldhave answered that more fully. 11 You are not looking at double jeopardy in this 12 particular case, because this is a civil case as 13 opposed to a criminal case. The very best public 14 example, I think, of something similar, is the 0. J. 15 Simpson trial. Youmay recall how 0. J. Simpson was 16 charged with a criminal case inwhich he was accused of 17 murdering his wife, and itwas a verypublic trial. 18 And he was acquitted. 19 The family, the gentleman who was murdered at 20 the same time as Mrs. Simpson, filed a civil case 21 against 0. J. Simpson arising out of the exact same 22 acts. And 0. J. Simpson arguedbefore the civil court

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1 that it was double jeopardy, that he could not be 2 chargedwith a civil action, because he had already 3 been acquitted of the crime. Do you remember this at 4 all, Mr. Pennywitt? 5 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. The civil court found 7 that, in fact, Mr. Simpson couldbe identified and 8 charged in a civil case or a civil actionbecause 9 they're two, different types of actions. The civil 10 case went forward. There was a trial andMr. Simpson 11 was found by a jury to be liable, civilly, to the 12 family of the deceased gentleman. So in your case, you 13 have something of the same type of conundrum, because 14 you have a criminal matter that you faced, whether 15 through and finished to all practical purposes with a 16 guiltyplea. Andnow you think the civil action 17 arising out of the same event where the FAA as the 18 complainingparty is seeking to have you assessed a 19 civilpenalty, it can do that. 20 The purpose for my interest is that having 21 that information helps informme about yourparticular 22 position that you were being overlypunished about one

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1 instant. So it is muchmore informational at this 2 point, particularly, to, I think, assist the parties in 3 questions theymight have regarding possible settlement 4 and to also give the court as much information as s possible so the court canbe accurate in its responses 6 to bothparties about the value ofthat information for 7 possible settlement. 8 That does not mean that you orMr. Stevenson 9 cannot utilize that information as evidence, either in 10 dispositive motions or at the trial itself. If the 11 parties do not reach settlement and the case goes to 12 trial, or for dispositive motions, the only information 13 that I utilized in reaching a decision is information 14 that has been properly admitted into evidence before 15 me. I know that sounds like an implausibility, but it 16 is actually true. 17 I can know all kinds of things about a 18 dispute, and yet limitmy decision only to what is 19 admitted into evidence. I can separate out what I have 20 learned through conferencing and set that aside, and 21 look at only testimony and documents that have been 22 admittedby evidentiary standards. So, at this point

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l in time, the value ofproviding that information to me 2 is informational only. It does not informorprejudice 3 me in terms of your case for trial. 4 The information at this point, to be clear, is s that knowing that you have had a case alreadybefore 6 the District Court, and knowing that you have suffered 7 a certainpunishment, thatbeing not only the time in s jail

-- the 50 hours of community service and the 9 horrific angst that itmust have felt to not onlyhave lO been arrested, but searched, put into the jail, and ll then face the grandjuryindictment

-- but the stain of l2 that that follows you, because it is a public l3 proceeding and it is a record against you. And those l4 things have great significance. And as your own lS attorney, those are things that shouldbe spoken of l6 privatelywhen you talk withMr. Stevenson, andhe will l7 be cognizant of that, because he is an attorney. lS So those are things that you shouldbe l9 utilizing inyourprivate discussions, at least to talk 20 about and see if there's a possible reduction of the 2l currentlyproposed civil penaltythat the FAA has 22 suggested against you; but that's up to the two of you

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1 at this point. If that's a helpful answer, I hope so. 2 Does that help you, Mr. Pennywitt? 3 MR. PENNYWITT: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you 4 verymuch. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have any other 6 question that you would like to askbefore we close 7 today, Mr. Pennywitt? 8 MR. PENNYWITT: Okay. I guess Mr. Stevenson 9 is going to send you the signedthing. Do I need to 10 send it to you, orMr. Stevenson? 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: No. No. 12 MR. PENNYWITT: Or am I done for now? 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Stevensonhas already 14 offered, and sincehe has to resend the CR 26(f), I 15 think it will be just as easy for him to send 16 everything at once. And so, you, Mr. Pennywitt, do not 17 have to send it, but I will simply note that you appear 18 not to object at this point. Would that be correct? 19 MR. PENNYWITT: That is correct. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So noted. 21 MR. PENNYWITT: I willbe sending out to both 22 of you an order setting litigation dates and

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1 procedures. I will also note on that orderMr. Smith's 2 name and phone number. If you have any questions, feel 3 free to ask him about that order. I will note, 4 however, thatMr. Smith does make a record of the 5 general inquiries, so that I canput it on the record 6 or note it in a follow-up order. 7 I want tomake sure that everybody knows that 8 I don't have private discussions with eitherparty. 9 You're welcome to contact Mr. Smith, either of you, 10 about questions at any time, but he will letme know 11 that there's been a contact, and I will note that for 12 the record, either in writing or at our next 13 conference. 14 With that, it appears ourbusiness is 15 complete. I'mgoing to wish you both a very happy 16 holiday in the interim. HappyNew Year, andwe can go 17 off the record at this time. 18 Thank you. 19 (Whereupon, at 11:16 a.m. the telephone 20 scheduling conference was concluded.) 21 

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