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A NATIONAL INTEROPERABLE BROADBAND NETWORK FOR PUBLIC SAFETY: RECENT DEVELOPMENTS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, 

TECHNOLOGY, AND THE INTERNET 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND 

COMMERCE 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

SEPTEMBER 24, 2009 

Serial No. 111–67 

( 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce 

energycommerce.house.gov 

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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE 

HENRY A. WAXMAN, California 

Chairman 

JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan 

Chairman Emeritus 

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts 

RICK BOUCHER, Virginia 

FRANK PALLONE, JR., New Jersey 

BART GORDON, Tennessee 

BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois 

ANNA G. ESHOO, California 

BART STUPAK, Michigan 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

GENE GREEN, Texas 

DIANA DEGETTE, Colorado 

Vice Chairman 

LOIS CAPPS, California 

MICHAEL F. DOYLE, Pennsylvania 

JANE HARMAN, California 

TOM ALLEN, Maine 

JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois 

HILDA L. SOLIS, California 

CHARLES A. GONZALEZ, Texas 

JAY INSLEE, Washington 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

MIKE ROSS, Arkansas 

ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York 

JIM MATHESON, Utah 

G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina 

CHARLIE MELANCON, Louisiana 

JOHN BARROW, Georgia 

BARON P. HILL, Indiana 

DORIS O. MATSUI, California 

DONNA M. CHRISTENSEN, Virgin Islands 

KATHY CASTOR, Florida 

JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland 

CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut 

ZACHARY T. SPACE, Ohio 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

BETTY SUTTON, Ohio 

BRUCE BRALEY, Iowa 

PETER WELCH, Vermont 

JOE BARTON, Texas 

Ranking Member 

RALPH M. HALL, Texas 

FRED UPTON, Michigan 

CLIFF STEARNS, Florida 

NATHAN DEAL, Georgia 

ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky 

JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois 

JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona 

ROY BLUNT, Missouri 

STEVE BUYER, Indiana 

GEORGE RADANOVICH, California 

JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania 

MARY BONO MACK, California 

GREG WALDEN, Oregon 

LEE TERRY, Nebraska 

MIKE ROGERS, Michigan 

SUE WILKINS MYRICK, North Carolina 

JOHN SULLIVAN, Oklahoma 

TIM MURPHY, Pennsylvania 

MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas 

MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee 

PHIL GINGREY, Georgia 

STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana 

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SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, TECHNOLOGY, AND THE INTERNET

RICK BOUCHER, Virginia 

Chairman 

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts 

BART GORDON, Tennessee 

BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois 

ANNA G. ESHOO, California 

BART STUPAK, Michigan 

DIANA DEGETTE, Colorado 

MICHAEL F. DOYLE, Pennsylvania 

JAY INSLEE, Washington 

ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York 

G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina 

CHARLIE MELANCON, Louisiana 

BARON P. HILL, Indiana 

DORIS O. MATSUI, California 

DONNA M. CHRISTENSEN, Virgin Islands 

KATHY CASTOR, Florida 

CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut 

ZACHARY T. SPACE, Ohio 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

PETER WELCH, Vermont 

JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan (ex officio) 

FRED UPTON, Michigan 

Ranking Member 

CLIFF STEARNS, Florida 

NATHAN DEAL, Georgia 

BARBARA CUBIN, Wyoming 

JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois 

VITO FOSSELLA, New York 

GEORGE RADANOVICH, California 

MARY BONO MACK, California 

GREG WALDEN, Oregon 

LEE TERRY, Nebraska 

MIKE FERGUSON, New Jersey 

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C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hon. Rick Boucher, a Representative in Congress from the Commonwealth 

of Virginia, opening statement ............................................................................ 1 

Hon. Cliff Stearns, a Representative in Congress from the State of Florida, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 3 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 5 

Hon. Anna G. Eshoo, a Representative in Congress from the State of California, opening statement .................................................................................... 7 

Hon. John Shimkus, a Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 8 

Hon. Henry A. Waxman, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

California, opening statement ............................................................................. 8 

Hon. Joe Barton, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 9 

Hon. Bart Stupak, a Representative in Congress from the State of Michigan, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 10 

Hon. Lee Terry, a Representative in Congress from the State of Nebraska, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 11 

Hon. Marsha Blackburn, a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Tennessee, opening statement ............................................................................ 12 

Hon. Peter Welch, a Representative in Congress from the State of Vermont, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 12 

Hon. Tim Murphy, a Representative in Congress from the Commonwealth 

of Pennsylvania, opening statement ................................................................... 13 

Hon. John D. Dingell, a Representative in Congress from the State of Michigan, prepared statement ...................................................................................... 94 

WITNESSES

William Bratton, Chief of Police, Los Angeles Police Department ...................... 14 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 17 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 108 

Brian Fontes, CEO, National Emergency Number Association ........................... 26 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 28 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 112 

Harlin R. McEwen, Chairman, Public Safety Spectrum Trust ............................ 33 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 35 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 117 

Jason Barbour, 911 Director, Johnston County, North Carolina ........................ 44 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 46 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 121 

Stacey Black, Assistant Vice President, Market Development, AT&T ............... 52 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 54 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 125 

Joseph Hanley, Vice President, Technology, Planning and Services, Telephone 

and Data Systems, Inc. ........................................................................................ 58 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 60 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 127 

Kostas Liopiros, Principal and Founder, The Sun Fire Group LLC .................... 72 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 75 

Answers to submitted questions ...................................................................... 132 

SUBMITTED MATERIAL

Letter of September 23, 2009, from APCO International to the Subcommittee, 

submitted by Mr. Boucher ................................................................................... 95 

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VI 

Letter of September 23, 2009, from T-Mobile to the Subcommittee, submitted 

by Mr. Boucher ..................................................................................................... 102 

Statement of Chief Paul Duquette, Newport, Vermont Police, submitted by 

Mr. Boucher .......................................................................................................... 107 

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A NATIONAL INTEROPERABLE BROADBAND 

NETWORK FOR PUBLIC SAFETY: RECENT 

DEVELOPMENTS 

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 24, 2009 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, TECHNOLOGY, 

AND THE INTERNET, 

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE, 

Washington, DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:15 a.m., in Room 

2123 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Rick Boucher 

[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. 

Members present: Representatives Boucher, Eshoo, Stupak, Inslee, Weiner, Castor, Murphy, McNerney, Welch, Waxman (ex officio), Harman, Stearns, Upton, Shimkus, Walden, Terry, Blackburn 

and Barton (ex officio). 

Staff present: Roger Sherman, Chief Counsel; Pat Delgado, Chief 

of Staff; Amy Levine, Counsel; Tim Powderly, Counsel; Shawn 

Chang, Counsel; Greg Guice, Counsel; Sarah Fisher, Special Assistant; Alan DeLevie, Intern; Neil Fried, Minority Counsel; and Garrett Golding, Minority Legislative Analyst. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICK BOUCHER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH 

OF VIRGINIA 

Mr. BOUCHER. The subcommittee will come to order. 

Today we consider steps that the Congress can take to facilitate 

the creation of a nationwide interoperable broadband network for 

the first responder community. As the terrorist attacks of 9/11 and 

natural disasters like Hurricane Katrina starkly revealed, there 

are serious obstacles that prevent fire police and rescue personnel 

from one locality communicating with first responders from other 

localities when they converge on the scene of a disaster. In some 

instances, fire police and rescue personnel in a single locality may 

lack a means of interoperable communication each with the other. 

For almost a decade, there has been a widely expressed need to 

create a national fully interoperable communications network for 

first responders but as of today, that network remains a goal. It is 

not a reality. 

This morning we will examine various proposals advanced by the 

first responder community and by commercial wireless carriers for 

realization of the national interoperable network. In advance of the 

700 megahertz auction in 2008, the FCC crafted a plan to auction 

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the 10 megahertz D block of the 700 megahertz spectrum to a commercial carrier, who under the terms of the proposal would then 

build out the D block with the requisite telecommunications equipment. Under the terms of the auction, the winning commercial bidder would share the 10 megahertz with public safety and public 

safety would have priority access to that network. Those terms 

proved to be unattractive to the commercial carriers and in the 

auction the D block did not receive the auction reserve price and 

was not sold. It remains unsold at the present time. 

A variety of proposals have been advanced since the failed D 

block auction about how the D block could be used to create a much 

needed nationwide first responder network. We will examine today 

the proposals and ask if any of them could result in a true nationwide network built out with the necessary wireless telecommunications equipment. The build-out of the wireless infrastructure 

would appear to be the largest single challenge, how to finance 

that, and we will focus our inquiry today on how that build-out 

could be financed through the various proposals that have been 

placed before us. 

One proposal is to give the D block to public safety, and then it 

would be combined with the 10 megahertz of spectrum already held 

by the public safety broadband licensee, the Public Safety Spectrum Trust. While this option would clearly give public safety sufficient spectrum for a nationwide broadband network, it would not 

provide any funding for the build-out with the necessary equipment. While some contend that localities could then lease the 10 

megahertz that D block received for free under the proposal to commercial entities and then apply the revenue from that lease to 

equipment build-out. I question whether sufficient revenue from 

the lease could be realized, particularly in rural areas, to finance 

the needed equipment purchase and installation. 

Another proposal is to auction the 10 megahertz block 

unencumbered for purely commercial use. The proceeds of that auction would then be used to help fund the build-out of a broadband 

network in the 10 megahertz of spectrum currently held by the 

Public Safety Spectrum Trust. This proposal likewise raises questions, given that no one believes the auction would raise sufficient 

funds to build out a nationwide network, perhaps only realizing a 

fraction of the total amount that is necessary. Where could public 

safety find the rest of the money that is needed? Could this proposal also leave smaller and more rural areas that lack financial 

resources behind? 

A third option is for the FCC to re-auction the D block for purchase by a commercial carrier to use in a public-private partnership with the public safety broadband licensee. However, to ensure 

a successful auction, that new auction would have to be restructured to address the concerns of commercial providers that resulted 

in the failure of a similarly structured auction in 2008. Whichever 

option is pursued, the most important goal is achieving a true nationwide public safety interoperability function. That means a plan 

that will ensure universal build-out and will not favor those areas 

with more resources to invest in a network over others with more 

limited means. The most critical question for many when determining how best to address the matter is how it will ensure that 

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rural areas and other financially disadvantaged regions are not left 

behind. 

We have an historic opportunity to make our nation more secure 

and to give our first responders a crucial tool they urgently need, 

and I hope that all member will keep this fundamental goal in 

mind as we consider how best to proceed, and I expect that this 

morning we will receive outstanding advice on these matters from 

our panel of witnesses, and I thank them for their attendance here 

today. 

That concludes my statement, and at this time I am pleased to 

recognize the ranking Republican on our subcommittee, the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Stearns. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CLIFF STEARNS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. STEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I agree with you 

that we will receive outstanding testimony on what to do, and I appreciate you having this hearing on the recent developments on a 

national interoperable public safety broadband network. 

The Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 

cleared 84 megahertz of spectrum formerly occupied by the broadcasters in the 700 megahertz band. Now, of that spectrum, 24 

megahertz was meant for first responders to use for interoperable 

emergency communications. The remaining 60 megahertz was supposed to be auctioned for commercial services. In mid-2007, thenFCC Chairman Kevin Martin, endorsed a proposal to require the 

winning commercial bidder for 10 megahertz of the spectrum, referred to as the D block, to negotiate a sharing agreement with 

public safety. In response, on June 29, 2007, Mr. Barton and myself 

along with 14 other members sent the FCC a bipartisan letter predicting that this approach would likely fail. The letter explained 

that commercial entities would be reluctant to bid on the D block 

for fear that they would fail to reach an agreement that would 

meet both their needs and those of public safety while still enabling them to recover their costs. So as a result, the letter concluded both the original 24 megahertz earmarked for public safety 

and the 10 megahertz D block would lay empty. The auction would 

raise less money for taxpayers and time would be wasted. The FCC 

ignored the advice in our letter and the auction failed as a result. 

The riskiest option going forward would be for the FCC to try another conditioned auction. Notwithstanding the failure of the D 

block auction, the FCC issued additional notices in May and September of 2008 proposing a re-auction of the D block with public 

safety conditions although it sought comment on how it might revise those conditions to improve the likelihood of success this time. 

The FCC did not take action on the proposal before Chairman Martin left. So I am concerned that few commercial providers would 

want to bid even with revisions since all the winner obtains is the 

right to negotiate with public safety. 

Most of the public safety community appears to agree that the 

conditioned auction approach is not worth pursuing. Instead, some 

argue that Congress pass a law to give the D block directly to the 

public safety community for free. The public safety community 

would then use the spectrum for construction of the nationwide 

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public safety network in combination with the original 24 megahertz that the DTV legislation cleared for first responders. It could 

do so on its own or partner with commercial entities to do so. This 

would do little good, however, absent funding to construct the network. 

Now, another option is to use revenue from a straight commercial auction of the D block to fund a network on the 24 megahertz 

first responders already have. Ten megahertz of the original 24 

megahertz the DTV legislation cleared for first responders could be 

enough for the public safety network. Many public safety officials 

have filed waivers with the FCC to start building networks on the 

spectrum they already have access to. And even if it were not 

enough, proponents of this approach argue that public safety could 

switch from narrowband voice to voice over Internet protocol and 

use all of the 24 megahertz for the broadband network. Cities such 

as New York are already indicating they are considering to do so. 

This approach would make more spectrum available for commercial 

broadband service at a time when demand is increasing but the 

supply of available spectrum is actually running low. This would 

also address the money issue, but some don’t think wireless companies would be interested in building or serving the network. 

So, my colleagues, no matter which option we choose to pursue, 

it is clear that past auction conditions do not work. We do not want 

to delay any further. I am glad we are having a hearing, we need 

to get it correct, and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Stearns follows:] 

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Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Stearns. 

The gentlelady from California, Ms. Eshoo, is recognized for 2 

minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANNA G. ESHOO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

Ms. ESHOO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning, everyone. 

The public safety communications has really been a longstanding 

concern of mine and that is why I joined with my colleague, Mr. 

Shimkus, to form the E–911 caucus almost 10 years ago. It is hard 

to believe that it was that long ago. And during that time we 

worked on numerous projects to keep Americans safe and secure 

and to advance most importantly first responder communications 

at the ground level. Public safety concerns have evolved, especially 

since 9/11, when we were reminded in very, very stark terms that 

interoperability is the glue that holds together the call centers, the 

first responders and other emergency personnel. Interoperability is 

interdependent on an often scarce and valuable public resource, 

which is spectrum. The spectrum can provide better safety resources and employ the most advanced technological tools but the 

spectrum has not faced the prospect of seeing people die or being 

injured instead of surviving during a crisis. 

The issue before us, I think, is a matter of trust, whether we 

trust the new commission to resolve the long-suffering D block 

issue through the rulemaking process, can they make the so-called 

restructured public-private partnership auction work. Those of us 

who lived through the D block false start auction do not want to 

go through another incarnation of that process. Twelve cities are 

biting at the bit trying to get at the 10 megahertz and 700 megahertz public safety broadband spectrum currently licensed to the 

Public Safety Spectrum Trust including the San Francisco Bay Regional Interoperable Communications System. They are shovel 

ready, and I think there is no reason to wait. I am not sure about 

the other proposals and I wonder who ultimately benefits. On the 

one hand, the major cities’ chiefs asked for the spectrum without 

an auction but a number of regions might not need that much spectrum. Then we have carriers who are willing to pay big, no doubt, 

to get the same spectrum at auction. They claim to be willing to 

use funds siphoned off the top of the auction’s proceeds to construct 

an interoperable broadband network for public safety. 

So we are here today to hear from everyone. I want to know if 

we can move ahead now not only in my district but also what the 

best use is for this essential public trust. So I welcome all the witnesses and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having the hearing and 

I yield back. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Ms. Eshoo. 

The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Shimkus, is recognized for 2 

minutes. 

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OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN SHIMKUS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS 

Mr. SHIMKUS. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I am honored to 

be followed by my colleague and friend, Anna Eshoo, who we have 

done great work along with the community and we look forward to 

continuing that effort. You have done, Mr. Chairman, a good job 

outlining the options we have. That is why you all are here to answer questions and testify so we can kind of help correct, how do 

we address this problem. So I won’t reiterate that. 

What I will say is that unfortunately this is an example of the— 

although we are interested and we are here and you are here, the 

intensity of the public interest in this obviously has fallen off, and 

with the FBI investigation going on now on an unspecified list of 

supposed terrorists and an unspecified target list, this room should 

be flooded with people because we have said numerous times, and 

I know Anna has, we can’t sustain another failure of communication in a major catastrophe, and unless we get this D block right, 

that is what we are going to have. And so we have to get to it. So 

the chairman has outlined the options. We are going to look forward to hearing your testimony. I just like using the bully pulpit 

to mention to the chairman I would like to see us move on H.R. 

3348, which would extend the grants program. There are some bills 

out there that would do that. I think that is important, something 

we could do now and it is well agreed to and probably could do on 

a suspension calendar if we could do that. 

And one thing that hasn’t been talked about which has been 

raised is the issue of a regional approach on auction issues. I know 

people have addressed rural concerns, and that should be part of 

the debate and that is what I will be looking for that also. 

So with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you and I yield back. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Shimkus. 

The chairman of the full Energy and Commerce Committee, the 

gentleman from California, Mr. Waxman, is recognized for 5 minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY A. WAXMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 

Mr. WAXMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you for 

holding this hearing and thank all of our witnesses for agreeing to 

come and share their knowledge and ideas on how to achieve nationwide public safety interoperability. 

This is certainly the unfinished business from 9/11 and Katrina 

and it is an urgent matter. As the FCC commissioners recognized 

at our hearing last week, resolution of this issue needs immediate 

attention, and while the FCC will certainly play a leading role, a 

number of the proposals if pursued would require additional legislative action by the Congress. 

During the last Congress, I was supportive of the concept of a 

public-private partnership and I continue to believe that some form 

of a public-private partnership would likely offer the clearest path 

to constructing a nationwide interoperable broadband network. Of 

course, the details of such an arrangement matter, and in light of 

the failure of the D block auction, we need to revisit these details. 

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I am encouraged by the efforts of both the public safety community 

and the private sector to think creatively about building this network and I am pleased to see that they have come up with a full 

range of ideas which we will learn more about today. I would like 

to thank particularly Chief Bratton of the LAPD for being with us. 

Thank you for being here. 

As we listen to these proposals, I want you to know that there 

are three basic principles that I have in mind for any plan to address. First, the network or networks must be built quickly. Secondly, there must be a clear plan to ensure that deployment 

reaches all areas of the country including hard-to-reach rural areas 

and underfunded municipalities. Third, the plan should try to avoid 

distorting or disrupting the commercial wireless marketplace by 

giving an unfair advantage to certain carriers over others. 

This is an important hearing, Chairman Boucher. I appreciate 

your holding it and it gives us an opportunity to learn more about 

this very important matter. To our witnesses, thank you for your 

participation and your testimony and look forward to the conclusion of the hearing and looking over the transcript and getting 

some ideas from this hearing today. I yield back my time. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Chairman Waxman. 

The ranking Republican member of the Energy and Commerce 

Committee, the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Barton is recognized for 

5 minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE BARTON, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS 

Mr. BARTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding this hearing along with Ranking Member Stearns, and I am 

certainly glad that our full committee chairman, Mr. Waxman is 

also in attendance. 

Mr. Chairman, if the FCC had listened to me, Mr. Stearns, Mr. 

Upton and several others several years ago, we wouldn’t be having 

this hearing. We along with 13 other of our colleagues from both 

sides of the aisle, I might point out, wrote to the FCC in June of 

2007 warning that placing public safety conditions on commercial 

use of the D block would almost certainly fail from both a public 

safety and a commercial perspective. Not listening, the FCC went 

forward anyway and botched the auction. Both the 24 megahertz 

cleared for public safety by the 2005 DTV legislation and the 10 

megahertz D block originally intended for commercial use have 

been sidelined. Potential auction proceeds have been lost and 2 

years have been wasted, so here we are again. 

Some are proposing we simply try to the condition auction approach again. I strongly urge the FCC, and if we need to, as a subcommittee and full committee, to inform the FCC not to do that. 

I don’t think that will work. It didn’t work the first time. There is 

no reason to expect it will work a second time. 

Passing legislation giving the D block directly to public safety for 

free would give them control over the spectrum, and my guess is 

that some of our witnesses are going to advocate that today, but 

that is not going to help if we don’t have the money to build it out. 

An unconditioned commercial auction of the D block could help 

raise money to build a public safety network on the 24 megahertz 

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that the 2005 DTV legislation has already cleared for first responders. That is also a non-regulatory way to promote wireless competition and advance our broadband deployment. Some are skeptical 

that the commercial providers would help instruct the network and 

provide the service under this scenario. There are some that would 

also argue from an engineering perspective that 24 megahertz is 

not enough to create the public safety network. I hope that we have 

some expert testimony on that issue here today. 

Here is an idea: Why don’t we start by answering the engineering question first, Mr. Chairman? I am an engineer. I still have my 

engineering license. I am not an electrical engineer, however, so I 

would be worthless if they delegated that job to be but I do know 

how to solve a problem from an engineering perspective. Once we 

know what is technologically possible, then we can debate the public policy and then we can look at the politics of the public policy. 

All too often, whether it is here or in the network neutrality debate, we send policy wonks and bureaucrats to do what us engineers could do without the policy wonks and without the politicians. Let us get to work, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Barton. 

The gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Stupak, is recognized for 2 

minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BART STUPAK, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. STUPAK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today’s hearing on how we can achieve a national interoperable broadband network for public safety. 

Last year when the D block auction failed, we convened a hearing to discuss with the Federal Communications Commission on 

how to move forward. Our witnesses today present us with a few 

options that warrant review at the FCC and I would like to know 

how their proposals addressed the largest hurdles to the original 

auction, those hurdles being the unique needs of public safety network, the high-cost areas of our country to serve like rural northern Michigan and the need for this network to reach nearly 99 percent coverage to be truly national. 

A public safety network cannot operate like a commercial network. You can have a dropped call on a commercial service but a 

dropped call for public safety can be the difference between life and 

death. When disaster strikes such as a hurricane, consumers do not 

expect their cell service to be 100 percent intact but public safety 

does not have that luxury. I have made it clear that a robust, national interoperable public safety network will need federal funding 

to become a reality. My colleagues were split 50/50 when I offered 

an amendment at the DTV markup years ago to use the revenue 

from the 700 megahertz auction to build the network. We missed 

our opportunity to make progress on this critical issue then, and 

today we are still at first base. This year I offered an amendment 

that was accepted by this committee during a markup of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the stimulus package, to ensure that interoperable communications needs in high-cost areas 

were eligible for grant funding. However, even the full amount of 

money in the stimulus for broadband funding would not meet the 

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estimated costs of a national interoperable public safety network 

which ranges anywhere from $10 billion to $20 billion. 

So Mr. Chairman, I am looking forward to hearing from our witnesses. Thanks for holding today’s hearing. I look forward to discussing this with our witnesses on how we can overcome these hurdles encountered by last year’s auction. But I must remind the 

committee and everyone else, we have been talking about interoperability since 1978 with the Air Florida crash and I am sure we 

will be talking about interoperability in 2048 with the next disaster. I don’t think we are going to make much progress but I look 

forward to hearing from the witnesses. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Stupak. Hopefully we 

will make some progress with all of our shared efforts. 

The gentleman from Nebraska, Mr. Terry, is recognized for 2 

minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LEE TERRY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEBRASKA 

Mr. TERRY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this important 

hearing and thank you all, gentlemen, for being here to share your 

thoughts on how to solve this problem. Here we are 8 years after 

September 11 and we have no interoperable plan. We thought we 

did, but embarrassingly, the FCC failed to recognize that when you 

place obligations and restrictions on an asset, that you have reduced the value and therefore reduced the value to zero, so we are 

still in the same place we were the day after September 11. 

It is extremely important that we set up an interoperable system 

that allows all of our first responders, our police, law enforcement 

agencies, fire and rescue and other agencies to all work together 

in a time of disaster. This includes not only the ability to talk to 

each other and coordinate but in today’s world that also means 

video, which means broadband. So maybe it is a good thing that 

the FCC screwed it up and we made sure that we have enough 

spectrum to be able to do a proper job on interoperability. But let 

us learn from the embarrassing experience the FCC caused a couple of years ago at the D block auction. Let us move forward and 

let us get the right plan. We are here today to hear your ideas of 

how to move forward on this, and I thank you for taking your time. 

I yield back. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Terry. 

The gentleman from California, Mr. McNerney, is recognized for 

2 minutes. 

Mr. MCNERNEY. Thank you, Chairman Boucher, for convening 

today’s hearing. I want to thank the witnesses for coming here 

today to talk to us. In particular, I am glad to welcome Mr. Fontes 

for coming. He has roots in Manteca, California, which is in my district. 

Now, there is wide agreement about the potential benefits of a 

national interoperable public safety network. My district not only 

is home for Mr. Fontes but also for some of the most active earthquake faults in North America. So I understand the urgency of the 

problem. I know there has been some problems in the past but I 

think given the several different proposals that we have seen and 

heard of, these all merit our consideration and respect. I am conjbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING

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fident with members of the committee, the FCC and all the stakeholders that we can find a solution that makes sense. We don’t 

need to repeat the embarrassing mistakes of the past. 

So this hearing is a positive step in the right direction. I look forward to your testimony and I yield back the balance of my time. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. McNerney. 

The gentlelady from Tennessee, Ms. Blackburn, is recognized for 

2 minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARSHA BLACKBURN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TENNESSEE 

Mrs. BLACKBURN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I welcome our 

witnesses also. We are very pleased that you are here, and as you 

are hearing from everyone up here, we realize that things need to 

be done differently this time around and so we appreciate that you 

are helping us revisit what happened with the D block. We realize 

that there should be some lessons learned and we have had some 

successes in the past and we have had some not-so-successful outcomes. As we look at this and as we hear from you today, we want 

to keep in mind the consumer needs that are there, the public safety, consumer choice, the ever-changing technologies that are also 

being developed and innovated and then the need for competition 

within the broadband industry. 

I am really concerned, and I will be interested to hear from you 

all on what you think the amount of spectrum we really need to 

fulfill the public safety needs. Is the 24 megahertz enough? Do we 

need to look at more of this? What was the problem with the additional 10 megahertz that we felt like could be the dual use there? 

So I think that those questions are best answered by you all and 

by engineers, as Ranking Member Barton said, you know, that you 

are the engineers looking at it, you know how to solve this problem, 

what the expansion of and the use of that spectrum can be. We all 

support a broadband, a good solid broadband policy, and want to 

see us make the most of this, and hearing from you today is important. I hope we learn our lessons well. Welcome to the committee, 

and I yield my time back. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Ms. Blackburn. 

The gentleman from Vermont, Mr. Welch, is recognized for 2 

minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. PETER WELCH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF VERMONT 

Mr. WELCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This issue for first responders is very important in Vermont just as much as it is in L.A. 

and every one of your communities. In Vermont, the police are 

doing a survey, and what they found was that 77 percent said that 

coverage was the biggest problem in our region. Twenty-seven percent of the respondents—these are law enforcement folks and first 

responder communities—stated that the current radio channels are 

at capacity and often congested and interoperability continues to be 

a huge problem. 

What I am going to hope for in your testimony from a Vermont 

perspective but I think this will apply in general is consideration 

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of the following: one, cost allocation for a build-out of the national 

system utilizing the D block spectrum; two, specific challenges for 

border communities—Vermont has experienced real difficulties relating to a 1962 treaty which limits use of certain spectrum 100 

kilometers from the border; and three, how topography affects the 

efficacy of the 700 megahertz system. Overall, there are three basically three things that have to be considered going forward. It is 

how do we build the system, how do we make it interoperable and 

how do we allow for competition so that the competition itself is 

going to be an incentive and a promoter of getting the job done. I 

yield back the balance of my time. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Welch. 

The gentleman from Washington State, Mr. Inslee, is recognized 

for 2 minutes. 

Mr. INSLEE. Thank you. Listening to these comments, I am sort 

of thinking a real discussion is, how do we free spectrum from cell 

block D. That sort of reminds me of the Escape from Alcatraz 

movie in that we are trying to free the spectrum. Most of our interest has been discussed. I just hope that the panel will discuss how 

we do this in a way that actually allows the financing of the construction of these networks in fact for public safety. It is important 

to finance it to actually get it done, and I look forward to the testimony. Thank you. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Inslee. 

The gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Murphy, is recognized for 

2 minutes. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. TIM MURPHY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA 

Mr. MURPHY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 

you to the witnesses for being here today. 

As Mr. Welch mentioned, although a lot of the attention in our 

public safety communications infrastructure has been focused on 

Louisiana, New York City, Connecticut, Vermont and across the 

Nation, we have daily communication gaps, and it has caused the 

rise of companies like one in my district, Mutual Link, which has 

developed web-based software that allows for very divergent technologies of communications systems to talk to each other, and I 

hope that one of the things that we talk about today in addition 

to a lot of the very important topics raised by my colleagues is the 

ability of companion software and companion technology to try to 

help solve some of the existing gaps that are in existence today, 

that even if we solve this problem of the spectrum going forward 

we are going to need to solve in the short term but also that we 

focus not only the issue of money and how we make sure that we 

have the capacity to build this system not only on the questions 

Mr. Barton raised relative to technology but timing as well. What 

is in any of these scenarios the realistic timing and what are our 

strategies in the interim to try to remedy those gaps as companies 

like the one I mentioned are trying to do. 

I thank the witnesses for being here today. I thank the chairman 

for the hearing. I yield back. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you, Mr. Murphy. 

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The gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Castor, is recognized for 2 minutes. 

Ms. CASTOR. Thank you, Chairman Boucher, very much for calling this important hearing on broadband across the country, particularly relating to our first responders. You know, coming from 

Florida here in late September, we are always mindful of the 

threat of hurricanes, and while we are fortunate we have had a 

fairly mild season, the 2004 season is still very fresh, and what I 

hear from first responders back home is that they have all the will 

in the world but we need your expert advice to show us the way 

to accomplish this and get it done. 

So I will be intently interested in your testimony today and 

thank you very much for being here. I yield back my time. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Ms. Castor, and thanks to 

all the members who have made opening comments this morning. 

We want to welcome now our panel of witnesses, and I will simply say a brief word of introduction about each and then call on 

each in turn for their testimony. Mr. William Bratton is the chief 

of the Los Angeles Police Department and is testifying this morning on behalf of the Major Cities Chiefs Association. Dr. Brian 

Fontes is CEO of the National Emergency Number Association. 

Chief Harlin McEwen is chairman of the Public Safety Spectrum 

Trust Corporation and chairman of the communications and technology committee of the International Association of Chiefs of Police. Mr. Jason Barbour is the 911 director for Johnston County, 

North Carolina. Mr. Stacey Black is assistant vice president for 

market development and mobility product management at AT&T. 

Mr. Joseph Hanley is vice president for technical planning and 

services for telephone and Data Systems Inc., the parent company 

of United States Cellular Corporation, and Dr. Kostas Liopiros is 

the founder of the Sun Fire Group. 

We welcome each of our witnesses. Without objection, your prepared written statements will be made a part of our record and we 

would welcome your oral summary of approximately 5 minutes 

each. 

Chief Bratton, we will be happy to begin with you. 

STATEMENTS OF CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON, CHIEF OF POLICE, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT; BRIAN FONTES, 

CEO, NATIONAL EMERGENCY NUMBER ASSOCIATION; CHIEF 

HARLIN R. MCEWEN, CHAIRMAN, PUBLIC SAFETY SPECTRUM TRUST; JASON BARBOUR, 911 DIRECTOR, JOHNSTON 

COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA; STACEY BLACK, ASSISTANT 

VICE PRESIDENT, MARKET DEVELOPMENT, AT&T; JOSEPH 

HANLEY, VICE PRESIDENT, TECHNOLOGY, PLANNING AND 

SERVICES, TELEPHONE AND DATA SYSTEMS, INC.,; AND 

KOSTAS LIOPIROS, PRINCIPAL AND FOUNDER, THE SUN 

FIRE GROUP LLC 

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM BRATTON 

Chief BRATTON. Good morning, Chairman Boucher and members 

of the committee. My name is William Bratton and I currently 

serve as chief of the Los Angeles Police Department. I would like 

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to thank you for this opportunity to appear before you today to discuss this critical issue. 

I am here today speaking on behalf of the Major Cities Chiefs Association, which is comprised of the police chiefs of the 63 largest 

police departments in the United States and Canada. The 56 U.S. 

cities represented America’s centers of industry, transportation, 

education and commerce. Their police departments provide public 

safety services to roughly 40 percent of America’s population. 

As you are well aware, the Federal Communications Commission 

auctioned portions of the 700 megahertz spectrum in May 2008, 

and although total auction proceeds significantly exceeded expectations, one block of spectrum, the D block, failed to attract a successful bidder. This was, in part, because of a requirement that the 

winning bidder had to construct a broadband wireless network 

built to public safety standards using the combined D block and adjacent public safety 700 megahertz spectrum. 

Under current law, the FCC is required to auction the D block. 

We believe this course of action is not in the public interest, since 

it would likely generate little revenue for the federal government 

and allocate to commercial use scarce spectrum resources urgently 

needed by public safety. The Major Cities Chiefs urge the Committee and Congress to consider an alternative: enact legislation to 

reassign the D block from the auction pool and reallocate it to public safety. This action would result a strong foundation for a sustainable nationwide public safety wireless broadband network. 

In my 40-year law enforcement career, I have been both a witness to and part of the evolution in policing technology. When I 

began as a police officer in Boston, the walkie-talkies that were 

available to us were so big and bulky that no one even wanted to 

carry them. While I was commissioner at the NYPD, we developed 

the COMPSTAT model that utilized timely information, gained 

through technology, and we were able to drastically reduce crime 

in that city. Today, many agencies have established real-time crime 

centers that are leveraging new technology to do an even more effective job of fighting crime. Very soon, we will be moving to a predictive policing model where, by studying real-time crime patterns, 

we can anticipate where a crime is likely to occur. Without question, this evolution has been driven by the improvements and need 

for information technology. 

Of course, in order to be useful, information needs to be relevant, 

accurate and timely, but just as important, it must be accessible. 

New technologies such as automated license plate readers, biometrics, medical telemetry, automated vehicle location and streaming video only scratch the surface of the capabilities that will be 

carried by broadband networks. The D block is critical for the accessibility of information to first responders across our Nation. Although some have questioned how to offset the potential loss of revenue resulting from the D block being taken off the auction block, 

we see this scenario in fundamentally different terms. We view the 

reallocation of the D block as a critically needed investment in public safety rather than as a loss of revenue. This investment of spectrum into public safety will reap large dividends far into the future 

with reduced crime and victims. 

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Let me offer an example. In Los Angeles, a recent Rand Corporation study showed that the negative economic impact of a single 

homicide in my city is $4 million. Now, mind you, this $4 million 

figure is actually a conservative number. Utilizing technology, we 

have been able to reduce the number of homicides in Los Angeles 

by over 300 over the last several years. This has resulted in a net 

positive economic impact of $1.2 billion to my city. Coincidentally, 

my budget is $1.2 billion. Thus, because of our crime reduction efforts, we have actually become revenue neutral. 

Investing the D block spectrum for use by public safety will benefit both urban areas as well as rural areas. In urban areas, the 

full amount of spectrum will be necessary to support the myriad of 

current and emerging broadband applications that are transforming public safety operations nationwide. In rural areas, the 

added spectrum can be used as collateral to form public-private 

partnerships, thereby reducing or eliminating a financial burden 

that such jurisdictions would otherwise have to assume to either 

build their own network or become a subscriber on a less reliable 

commercial broadband network. 

After the failure of the D block auction last year, there was significant confusion in the public safety community about how best 

to proceed with this critical issue. I am pleased to report today that 

in the last 5 months the eight major public safety organizations 

have come together in an unprecedented effort to forge a consensus 

on how to make a wireless public safety broadband network a reality. 

At this time, I would like to briefly address the issue of the pending waiver requests. Under current FCC rules, the existing 10 

megahertz of spectrum assigned to public safety licensee PSBL cannot be utilized and remains fallow. Currently, 13 jurisdictions including many represented by you have filed waiver requests with 

the FCC seeking to build local or regional broadband wireless networks utilizing this spectrum prior to the construction of a nationwide network. It is apparent that the communities large and small, 

urban and rural have come to the realization that a public safety 

broadband wireless network is a critical and urgent need. They 

have also come to the conclusion that they can construct local networks either alone or through a public-private partnership arrangement. We urge the FCC to expeditiously review the pending waiver 

requests and grant all requests that meet their requirements. 

Granting waivers to jurisdictions with qualified proposals will permit early build-out of local and regional broadband networks. 

In closing, we urge that you take the legislative action necessary 

to invest this spectrum in public safety nationwide. The benefits 

gained from such an investment in first responder communications 

will dramatically transform how we serve the public we have all 

sworn to protect. Thank you for this opportunity to address these 

important issues. 

[The prepared statement of Chief Bratton follows:] 

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Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Chief Bratton. 

We now have two recorded votes pending on the floor of the 

House. I think we have time to hear from Dr. Fontes and then the 

committee will take a brief recess while members respond to the 

call of the House. Dr. Fontes, we will be pleased to hear from you. 

STATEMENT OF BRIAN FONTES 

Mr. FONTES. Thank you. I appreciate it very much, Mr. Chairman. 

I would like to thank you, Mr. Stearns and other members of this 

subcommittee. My name is Brian Fontes and I represent the National Emergency Number Association. NENA is a representation 

organization of over 7,000 dedicated 911 and emergency communication professionals who receive and manage nearly 250 million 

911 calls annually. In reality, these public safety individuals are 

the first link in the emergency response chain that so many Americans rely on. Before I continue, there are two members of this committee who are not here and I understand their demands for their 

role in the E–911 caucus as co-chairs on the House side, and that 

is Representatives Eshoo and Shimkus. I also want to extend my 

appreciation to other members of this committee for their commitment to the caucus and also for their commitment to the advancement of 911. 

Wireless broadband is obviously very important, and in a day 

and age when many sectors of the economy rely on broadband services, public safety should have that same opportunity to do so. It 

is obvious that dealing with voice, video and data is in fact critical. 

What is quite interesting as I reviewed many of the filings and certainly in the testimonies presented here, there is so much agreement that exists among the public safety organizations and frankly 

by some of the comments you have made today in your opening 

statements. We all agree that broadband both wired and wireless 

provides significant public safety benefits. A network for public 

safety must be available nationwide, rural as well as urban centers. We all agree that there must be funding to build this network, 

to operate it, to maintain it, to buy the equipment and the applications necessary. Public safety needs to be able to take advantage 

of the significant research and development that has been poured 

into the commercial sector and to be able to utilize that investment. We all agree that the network must meet the significant and 

reasonable needs of public safety. 

Agreement on these issues and the lack of, let me repeat that, 

and the lack of federal funding for a nationwide public safety 

broadband network is in large part why the FCC initiated the D 

block public-private partnership that started this whole debate. 

However, recognizing that this proposal was not necessarily designed correctly, the auction was not successful. We do believe and 

I believe that with some modifications and some corrections and 

particularly to the point that you had made, Mr. Chairman, about 

the uncertainty associated with the auction once you won the bid 

that the auction could in fact move forward. But NENA also recognizes that there may in fact be another failure if the commission 

were to move in that direction. And so we propose yet another alternative, and that proposal we believe presents significant benefits 

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to public safety while also like other proposals would require Congressional action. We believe that the 10 megahertz that is available in the public safety band be married to the D block and auctioned as a 20 megahertz block. Most parties in the technical world 

realize that a 20 megahertz block provides the efficiencies needed 

for broadband for public safety as well as commercial use. We believe that this marriage provides substantial benefits to public safety. We would propose that half the auction revenues generated 

from a 20 megahertz auction be put into a broadband trust as an 

initial start for access to that network. We believe that the licensee 

should have imposed upon it aggressive but achievable nationwide 

build-out requirements, that public safety has access to all 20 

megahertz and when needed priority access. We believe that is a 

benefit. Public safety access to the network at a known discounted 

rate should also be established before the auction, and with the established reoccurring revenue source to continue to provide funds, 

in essence the funding issue that we all raised today. This proposal 

provides yet another option to be considered. 

To be sure, different options have been proposed by other public 

safety organizations and some wireless carriers. While we share 

many of the same goals, what really is the crux of the issue here 

is what will assure a nationwide broadband network with a funding mechanism that will encourage and provide for build-out nationwide, and that is it. 

With that said, NENA asks the following two overarching factors, that they be nationwide and that there will be funding made 

available. I strongly encourage you, actually all of us, to look at unconventional and perhaps, yes, initially unpopular ideas that may 

result in a known and reoccurring source of funding, again a primary concern here, for public safety’s broadband network. For example, at last week’s FCC oversight hearing, Chairman 

Genachowski referred to the E-rate as one of the great successes 

of the 1996 Telecom Act, ensuring access to the Internet for our 

Nation’s schools and libraries. If access to broadband for public 

safety is as important as we all know it is, then surely we can come 

up with an innovating funding proposal as we did for the schools 

and libraries over a decade. This is a monumental effort. There is 

no doubt about it. NENA stands ready to work with all of you and 

certainly all of public safety to make this nationwide broadband 

network, the funding available for it, to become a reality. Thank 

you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Fontes follows:] 

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Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Dr. Fontes. 

I am also to ask unanimous consent to put three statements in 

today’s record: a letter from the Association of Public Safety Communications Officials International, a letter from T Mobile USA, 

and a statement from the chief of the Newport, Vermont, Police. 

Without objection, so ordered. 

[The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] 

Mr. BOUCHER. We are going to stand in recess until the conclusion of these two votes. It should not be very long, a half-hour at 

most, I think, probably less. So please be patient and we will return shortly. 

[Recess.] 

Ms. ESHOO [presiding]. I don’t want to break up the festivities, 

but I think that we can get back to our witnesses. I think that 

Chief McEwen is next. 

Chief McEwen, you are on. I understand the challenge. It is hard 

for us to get into our seats too. 

STATEMENT OF HARLIN MCEWEN 

Chief MCEWEN. Thank you, Acting Chairman, and thank you, 

Chairman Boucher and Ranking Member Stearns and distinguished members of the committee for the opportunity to appear 

before you today. We applaud the efforts of the subcommittee members and other Members of Congress for your continuing interest 

and support in our efforts to create a nationwide public safety wireless broadband network. 

My name is Harlin McEwen and I am the retired police chief for 

the city of Ithaca, New York, and I am also retired as a deputy assistant director of the FBI in Washington. I serve as the chairman 

of the communications and technology committee of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, a position I have held for 

more than 30 years. I also serve as the elected chairman of the 

Public Safety Spectrum Trust, a nonprofit corporation that consists 

of representatives of 15 national public safety organizations. The 

principal purpose of the PSST is to serve as the licensee and manager for the 700 megahertz nationwide public safety broadband license commonly referred to as the PSBL. The PSBL was granted 

to the PSST on November 19, 2007, and includes the 10 megahertz 

of broadband spectrum that is intended to be one-half of the spectrum that will be used to develop a shared commercial public safety network. The other half of the spectrum will come from the socalled D block. 

This is not the first time I have appeared before you on this topic 

but I want to once again stress why it is so important for the 

United States to have a nationwide public safety broadband network. Any review of major crises such as 9/11 or Katrina shows 

how much the personal efforts and effectiveness of our Nation’s 

first responders, police, firefighters, emergency medical personnel 

and others, are diminished or undermined when the communications infrastructure that supports our efforts fails or is insufficient 

for the needs of public safety professionals. Our vision is to embrace the capabilities of broadband technology but at the same time 

not forget that public safety needs a network that is hardened to 

withstand catastrophes and has extended backup power, satellite 

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backup and other important features so that it will be available 

and reliable in a crisis. Establishing and building out the wireless 

broadband network will be a significant challenge but it is one that 

very much needs to be done to meet our national security and public safety needs for the years to come. 

As you are aware, the 700 megahertz spectrum auction conducted by the FCC in early 2008 did not attract a winning bid for 

the D block. Since then the FCC has sought several rounds of comment on various new proposals and options but has taken no further action. During the past 16 or so months, the PSST and the 

public safety community have worked diligently to examine options 

that will enable us to be successful and also preserve requirements 

that will result in a network designed to deliver up-to-date, affordable and interoperable broadband communications capabilities to 

our country’s first responders. The PSST has been working with 

the FCC as it also examines various options. 

In the total absence of conventional funding alternatives, the 

PSST supports the public-private partnership concept where the 

private partners which will be using some of the shared spectrum 

for their own commercial purposes and profit will be the principal 

source of financial support to the PSST. For example, the second 

report and order envisions that the use of public safety spectrum 

by the private partners will be under a lease agreement with the 

PSST. Since I last appeared before you, we have worked hard to 

achieve consensus within the public safety community to move this 

process forward. All of the major national public safety organizations with the exception of the National Emergency Number Association have reached consensus on the preferred approach for success. The consensus position is for Congress to adopt legislation 

that will direct the FCC to remove auction requirements from the 

D block and to instead allocate it to the national public safety 

broadband license. This would then give public safety 20 megahertz 

of broadband spectrum that would enable us to proceed with public-private partnerships through a request for proposal process that 

would identify the best private partners to build out the network. 

This will also give us the ability to develop strong public-private 

partnerships locally and nationally that will provide the private 

funding necessary through network leasing and sharing agreements without requiring dependence on federal, State and local 

funding or auction revenue. 

We look forward to working with you in this committee to make 

the public safety broadband network a reality in the near future. 

We urge you to support the proposed legislation and consensus position that I have described. Our efforts to get a nationwide public 

safety wireless broadband network have been going on for a very 

long time and we now call upon you to help us achieve this most 

important public safety goal. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Chief McEwen follows:] 

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Ms. ESHOO. Thank you, Chief. 

Mr. Barbour. 

STATEMENT OF JASON BARBOUR 

Mr. BARBOUR. Thank you, Acting Chairman. Chairman Boucher, 

Ranking Member Stearns and members of the subcommittee, 

thank you for providing me the opportunity to appear before you 

here today. My name is Jason Barbour. I am serving as the 911 

director for Johnston County located in North Carolina. I am also 

an active captain with the town of Clayton Fire Department as well 

as a deputy sheriff for Johnston County. I am the past president 

for the National Emergency Number Association, commonly referred to as NENA. I currently serve as NENA’s representative on 

the Public Safety Spectrum Trust, commonly referred to as the 

PSST. I am also a member of the Association of Public-Safety Communication Officials International, commonly referred to as APCO. 

While I am actively involved in all of these organizations, I am 

here today only on the behalf of Johnston County, a rural yet fastgrowing county in eastern North Carolina. In my testimony today, 

I would like to make three points. First, broadband technologies 

provide significant benefits for emergency communications. Ensuring that public safety agencies and emergency responders are connected to broadband, wireline and wireless, must be a national priority. Second, any actions taken by Congress or the FCC must ensure that a sustainable funding source is in place to pay for public 

safety’s access to and use of broadband. Third, any proposal for the 

establishment of a wireless public safety broadband network must 

take into consideration the needs of rural America and ensure access to the network in all areas of the country. 

How do we get there in rural America? No one doubts the potential of broadband for public safety in areas urban and rural. However, in rural America, there are legitimate questions concerning 

how wireless public safety broadband network can be paid for and 

built out. No one doubts that public safety agencies would love to 

have access to their own network and operate their own broadband 

network but the reality is, in many areas there is simply no way 

to fund the build-out and continued use of such networks. Whether 

public safety has access to 10, 20 or 50 megahertz of spectrum, the 

spectrum is only as good as the ability to pay for it and build it 

out. That is why I along with the rest of the national public safety 

community was particularly interested in the FCC’s original D 

block concept in which public safety would have access to a 

broadband network, but would not have to pay for the cost of building the network. Whether or not the original D block public partnership can still work is a legitimate question. A known funding 

source and a known build-out schedule 2 years ago and, regardless 

of the specific plan that is adopted, they remain critical issues 

today, particularly in rural America. 

I commend all the organizations involved in this debate for putting the ideas on the table intended to result in positive solutions 

for public safety. Without commenting on any of the individual proposals, I believe several questions must be answered. First and 

foremost, is there an identified reoccurring funding source to pay 

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posal result in a nationwide wireless broadband network? Is there 

a high likelihood of success that such a network will be built out 

nationally on a known schedule? Will the network meet the reasonable and important needs of public safety? Will the plan ensure 

that the public safety network remains current and benefits from 

commercial research and development? If the plan calls for public/ 

private partnerships, is there sufficient oversight by the FCC or 

other appropriate authority to ensure that such agreements are adhered to? If an approach is adopted that does not involve an auction with build-out requirements by commercial entities, is there 

sufficient evidence to conclude that there is a need for additional 

spectrum in rural areas and, therefore, an assurance that nonmandatory partnerships will emerge and result in a nationwide 

network being built in less populated areas? I am particularly interested in the answers to these questions for rural America. 

Whatever the details of any plan may be, it is essential that they 

are reviewed to ensure that the result is a nationwide network or 

network of networks sufficient to meet the needs of public safety 

and that near- and long-term funding is available for public safety 

to access and use the network. 

Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Barbour follows:] 

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Ms. ESHOO. Thank you for your excellent testimony. 

Mr. Black. 

STATEMENT OF STACEY BLACK 

Mr. BLACK. Acting Chairman and members of the subcommittee, 

thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss 

AT&T’s support of public safety’s proposals for the implementation 

of interoperable wireless broadband. As AT&T has been a leading 

provider of wireless data services to the public safety community 

for over a decade, we have a unique perspective that drives our rationale for this support. AT&T’s support of public safety’s desire to 

build out regional networks is based on our experience that agencies want the ability to tailor a network to meet their unique local 

needs. 

First, agencies need the flexibility to choose a network management model that meets their financial as well as their communications requirements. Secondly, local agencies have a better understanding of the terrain and population centers that will or will not 

require coverage. Lastly, local deployments can be constructed 

using existing grants and procurement programs that have been 

traditionally used for land mobile radio and other communications 

at a much lower cost than what a nationwide network would entail. 

One of the concerns that has been expressed about this regional approach is that it may not include small and rural communities. 

AT&T supports a unique proposal that could dramatically reduce 

the cost of a typical broadband deployment, thus making it affordable to provide coverage for smaller communities. This approach 

has been referred to as the leveraged network model as it provides 

a dedicated private network experience that leverages the core infrastructure of a commercial operator. This model has the potential 

to jump-start deployment of regional networks since most of the 

core build-out has already been completed. This model addresses 

two primary concerns of public safety: It gives them exclusive access to spectrum, eliminating the concern of sharing with commercial users, and it reduces the overall cost by leveraging the commercial operators’ existing core network and provisioning support 

in billing systems. 

AT&T also supports and applauds public safety’s recommendation of LTE as the common technology standard. Known as longterm evolution, LTE is an internationally recognized wireless 

standard that is for next-generation. The LTE standard will benefit 

public safety in many ways. First, it will ensure that each network, 

even those that are built independent of each other, will allow 

seamless roaming for visiting public safety users. It will encourage 

early deployment and will build momentum among public safety 

agencies and as more regional networks are deployed they will 

form the backbone of a network of networks that will ultimately 

provide public safety with interoperable broadband across the country. Second, it will allow public safety to leverage the massive 

economies of scale of the commercial operators who are also deploying LTE at 700 megahertz. Third, it will allow a region to confidently design and deploy a network knowing that it will be interoperable with later deployed networks. Lastly, AT&T envisions 

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that public safety users will be able to roam from networks onto 

commercial networks as seamlessly as cellular phones roam today. 

Finally, AT&T supports public safety’s request to reallocate the 

D block as public safety spectrum to provide a full 20 megahertz 

of broadband capacity. Over the last 5 years as AT&T has introduced next-generation wireless data capabilities, public safety applications have become more bandwidth intensive and average data 

usage has doubled each year from 11 bits per user in 2005 to almost 200 megabits per user per month in 2009. Our experience 

tells us that as public safety deploys LTE, the vendor community 

will begin to develop new applications that require even more 

bandwidth. By providing the full 20 megahertz now, public safety 

will be able to deploy a single-bay station radio and devices that 

utilize the contiguous spectrum instead of being forced to add noncontiguous spectrum at a later time which will require new equipment and additional taxpayer expense. 

Another thing to consider is that public safety is unique in that 

during an incident or an emergency, network demand is typically 

concentrated in a small geographic area. While commercial carriers 

can deploy additional capacity at preplanned events, public safety 

does not have the luxury of planning the next disaster or incident 

that will likely involve multiple jurisdictions in a defined geographic area. Therefore, having the full 20 megahertz throughout 

a broadband deployment will provide public safety the additional 

capacity when needed most, during emergencies. 

Reallocating the D block to public safety while using the leverage 

network model will benefit the smaller and rural communities that 

may not have all the funding needed to deploy a dedicated 

broadband network. Not only will the build-out cost be reduced but 

it also provides these communities the spectrum needed to incent 

a commercial operator to enter into a public-private partnership 

that will result not only in broadband for public safety but for the 

community as well. 

In closing, we encourage you to engage the public safety community on these proposals directly as they are the true beneficiaries 

of them. However, AT&T feels strongly that this is the last and 

best opportunity to provide public safety with the broadband capability that it needs in pursuit of its mission. It is simply the right 

thing to do. 

Thank you, and I am prepared to answer any questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Black follows:] 

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Ms. ESHOO. Thank you, Mr. Black. 

Mr. Hanley. 

STATEMENT OF JOSEPH HANLEY 

Mr. HANLEY. Thank you, Chairman Eshoo, Ranking Member 

Stearns and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. My name is Joe Hanley and I am a vice 

president at TDS, the parent company of U.S. Cellular. U.S. Cellular serves over 6.2 million customers and has received eight consecutive J.D. Power awards for highest call quality in the north 

central region. 

In addition to commercial users, our networks serve hundreds of 

public safety agencies. Like other wireless carriers, we need more 

spectrum to support fourth-generation services. U.S. Cellular is 

prepared to play a significant role in the shared network I will discuss. 

Two goals are essential to the public interest. First, we must provide nationwide interoperable broadband services for public safety. 

These services must be available throughout the Nation, not just 

for a few select communities. They should be provided at the lowest 

possible cost to taxpayers and public safety agencies. The second 

goal is to expand competitive broadband services for consumers. 

Broadband is a powerful catalyst for economic growth. However, 

spectrum, the life blood of broadband service and wireless competition, has become highly concentrated and more must be made 

available. 

The good news is that these two goals are highly complementary. 

This is not a choice between helping public safety or providing 

broadband services to consumers. Shared networks and shared use 

mean lower costs and better services for all users, and the combined user base may be essential to getting cost-effective equipment for this band. 

There are two potential paths. First, a group of public safety organizations is asking Congress to reallocate the D block, creating 

a combined 20 megahertz block licensed to the PSST. This proposal 

can provide a basis for moving forward but it needs to be enhanced 

to ensure a full partnership between commercial operators and 

public safety with a fair opportunity for non-national carriers. We 

are encouraged by statements suggesting that many needed elements are already on the table: Shared commercial public safety 

use, commercial construction and operation of the network, participation of regional and smaller carriers, and competitive bidding for 

partners. 

Legislation must make these concepts explicit, and we recommend the following improvements. First, the legislation should 

require that the FCC adopt rules for a fair selection process including non-national carriers. Second, it should provide for commercial 

use of a reasonable portion of the overall 20 megahertz of capacity. 

Third, it should promote long-term stability and operator continuity similar to what the operator would have as a licensee. 

Fourth, it should require reasonably sized geographic areas for regional partnerships. States or the 55 regional planning areas would 

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Let us turn to the second option, which is available now to the 

FCC under existing law. Since the auction, there has been recognition that all-or-nothing national license contributed to the auction’s 

failure. Consensus has developed on improvements including regional licensing and public safety has made progress on standards 

including a technology choice, LTE. After granting waivers for a 

few early builds, we propose a two-stage auction. Stage 1 would include commercial bidders and would generate revenues for the 

Treasury. In stage 2, for any license left unsold, the PSST could 

submit a bit with no monetary payment but a best-efforts commitment to build the network. Thus, after providing an opportunity for 

interested commercial operators to proactively bid, any remaining 

markets would fall back to competitive selection process run by the 

PSST. Thus, every market in the country would be assigned a licensee. The imperative is to get the process moving. The FCC 

should not wait for legislation but should develop rules now for a 

successful auction of D block licenses. If reallocation legislation is 

adopted, this work will still have moved the ball forward on standards and the FCC can readily adapt its rules. 

So to summarize, shared network and shared use meets both 

goals: public safety and competitive broadband deployment. Either 

path can work, properly legislation or a two-stage auction provide 

it includes opportunities for full commercial partnership and nonnational operator participation. We believe an auction can be successful and would generate revenues for the Treasury. The key is 

to move forward, and the FCC should do so now under its existing 

authority. 

Thank you very much for the opportunity to provide this testimony. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Hanley follows:] 

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Ms. ESHOO. Thank you, and I apologize for mispronouncing your 

name. It is because they have misspelled your name on your card. 

They have an E on it. So you are Hanley, not Haneley. Thank you 

very much for your testimony. 

Doctor, let us see if I pronounce your name correctly, Liopiros. 

Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF KOSTAS LIOPIROS 

Mr. LIOPIROS. Acting Chairman Eshoo, Ranking Member Stearns 

and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to discuss the issue of a national interoperable 

broadband network for public safety. My name is Kostas Liopiros 

and I am the principal of the Sun Fire Group, an independent technology management consultancy located in Alexandria, Virginia. 

Sound policy dictates that spectrum should be allocated and assigned in a manner that benefits all Americans. The approach that 

best serves both the public safety community and consumers will 

be to auction the D block solely for commercial use with the proceeds of the auction used to help fund a nationwide public safety 

broadband network on the 10 megahertz of 700 megahertz spectrum that has already been allocated for public safety. This approach will provide the funds needed to develop a state-of-the-art 

interoperable public safety broadband network while providing 

sorely needed spectrum for the advanced wireless broadband services that consumers now demand. 

Public safety communications are critically important for the 

public welfare and they need to be improved, especially in support 

of first responders. In general, public safety communications systems are still not fully interoperable, making it difficult for public 

safety agencies and first responders to communicate with one another. Further, public safety systems generally do not provide the 

wireless broadband capabilities increasingly commonplace in the 

commercial market that are becoming essential to the sharing of 

data. The federal government has allocated a great deal of spectrum in order to solve these problems. Nearly 100 megahertz of 

spectrum, 99.7 megahertz to be precise, has been allocated for public safety use. Of this nearly 100 megahertz total, less than about 

17 megahertz between 150 and 160 megahertz is used currently to 

support the majority of public safety communications systems. The 

remaining spectrum which has been allocated to public safety since 

1996 is still not widely used. This includes the 24 megahertz of 

prime spectrum and 700 megahertz band of which 10 megahertz 

has been designated for public safety broadband services. 

At this point, lack of spectrum is not the key impediment to improving public safety communications. Congress has granted public 

safety spectrum for free but as you have heard many times today, 

funds to use the spectrum to construct a nationwide broadband 

network are still lacking. Public safety agencies need funding to 

build and maintain a public safety broadband network in the 700 

megahertz band. With the current economic crisis and severe resource constraints that confront most local and state governments, 

obtaining these funds is even more challenging than ever. Without 

financial support, a nationwide interoperable broadband public 

safety network will not be possible. 

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Congress needs to address the funding needs, especially as public 

safety moves to adopt broadband communications. As a first step, 

I recommend that Congress should strongly consider legislation to 

enable the FCC to auction the 700 megahertz D block for purely 

commercial use and direct the proceeds of that auction to the public safety community for the construction and maintenance of a 

public safety broadband network. Although the proceeds from the 

auction may not be sufficient to fully fund a nationwide public safety broadband network, they will provide a very substantial and valuable down payment on the network, kick-starting construction 

and making the remaining funding challenges much more manageable than before. 

Now, the existing 10 megahertz of 700 megahertz spectrum that 

has already been allocated to public safety is, I believe, sufficient 

to support an interoperable broadband network, especially given 

the new efficient wireless broadband technologies now becoming 

available. More than 10 cities and/or states have already sought 

FCC approval to begin construction of broadband networks on the 

existing 10 megahertz of public safety spectrum in the 700 megahertz band using long-term evolution technology, which is the recommended follow along to the GSM standard. 

A number of public safety organization agencies have also endorsed the use of long-term evolution technology for constructing 

public safety broadband networks. LTE has multiple and scalable 

channel bandwidths and by design can accommodate the allocations in the 10 megahertz public safety broadband plan. By adopting LTE technology, public safety can leverage the ongoing commercial developments and infrastructure and equipment to reduce 

network deployment and operation costs. 

Unlike public safety, however, the commercial wireless industry 

does face a spectrum crunch. Growing demands for new advanced 

broadband services including wireless broadband can be met only 

if sufficient spectrum is available for wireless carriers to provide 

these services. Wireless carriers in the United States have estimated the wireless industry will need access to at least an additional 200 megahertz of commercial spectrum within 5 years in 

order to meet growing consumer demand. That is a 5-year forecast. 

The International Telecommunications Union in studies preparatory to the 2007 World Radio Conference, WRC–07, has estimated that by the year 2010 about 1 gigahertz of additional spectrum will be needed globally. Auctioning the 700 megahertz D 

block for commercial purposes would enhance the opportunities for 

the provision of competitive broadband services by existing carriers 

as well as new entrants. Of course, 10 megahertz of spectrum will 

not in itself alleviate the projected commercial spectrum shortage. 

Clearly, more needs to be done in terms of identifying the allocated 

spectrum for future commercial use but is a good first step and represents the best alternative use of the spectrum I have discussed. 

In ideal circumstances, unrestricted amounts of spectrum would 

be available to meet the demands of all commercial carriers and 

public safety agencies. However, that is not the case. Spectrum is 

a rare and important national resource. Congress must balance the 

needs of public safety with that of consumers and focus on the best 

solution that considers existing conditions and future opportunities. 

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Auctioning the D block for commercial use would provide a muchneeded infusion of funds to jump-start the construction of a national interoperable broadband network for public safety while facilitating competition in the wireless marketplace. 

Mr. Chairman, thank you again for the invitation to testify 

today. I welcome any questions the committee may have. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Liopiros follows:] 

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Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Dr. Liopiros, and thanks 

to all of our witnesses for their testimony here this morning. 

I have several questions, and the first one I think can be answered with simple yes or no answers, and so let me go down the 

row. I am going to start with Chief Bratton. Dr. Liopiros has just 

talked about the adequacy of the 10 megahertz of spectrum currently in the hands of the public Safety Spectrum Trust for utilization of the broadband services that we hope to see built out on a 

nationwide basis. If I understood his comments correctly, he is suggesting that the latest generation of wireless technology, LTE, 

should be satisfactory to enable that 10 megahertz to serve your 

needs. Is there general agreement that the 10 megahertz is enough 

and that we can then look for alternative ways of disposing of the 

10 megahertz D block? Chief Bratton? 

Chief BRATTON. No. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Dr. Fontes? 

Mr. FONTES. It is a difficult yes or no answer. 

Mr. BOUCHER. I am sorry? 

Mr. FONTES. Difficult yes or no. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Be brief, please. 

Mr. FONTES. Pardon? 

Mr. BOUCHER. Be brief, please. 

Mr. FONTES. Probably not. 

Mr. BOUCHER. OK. That is two no’s. Chief McEwen? 

Chief MCEWEN. No. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Three. Mr. Barbour? 

Mr. BARBOUR. With my limited knowledge, no. 

Mr. BOUCHER. That is four. 

Mr. BLACK. No. 

Mr. BOUCHER. You said no. That is five. Mr. Hanley? 

Mr. HANLEY. No. 

Mr. BOUCHER. OK. Well, Dr. Liopiros, you seem to be outvoted. 

Mr. LIOPIROS. It is a question of requirements, sir, and I haven’t 

really seen any good studies or analysis that said it is sufficient or 

not sufficient. A lot of the evidence I hear is anecdotal. Of course, 

20 megahertz is better than 10 megahertz, using more capacity. 

Thirty megahertz, 40 megahertz is better than 10 megahertz. 

Mr. BOUCHER. But you are suggesting that 10 megahertz with 

appropriate technology would be good for the—— 

Mr. LIOPIROS. I am suggesting that it would be good at least for 

a start. The agencies that applied for—— 

Mr. BOUCHER. I am going to move on because I have got some 

other questions, but thank you. I am not trying to cut you off. I 

just have limited time. 

The problem of course is if we take not only the 10 megahertz 

currently in the hands of the trust but add to that the D block and 

provide that to the public safety community, then we don’t have 

the D block available to help us in any way with the financing 

costs for building out in what would then be 20 megahertz of spectrum with the requisite technology. The debate up until now has 

focused on possible creative ways to use the D block to obtain financing for build-out of equipment in the 10 megahertz that the 

public safety community already has, and we are going to continue 

to focus on that while considering your comments that it would be 

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nice to have an additional allocation of spectrum beyond the 10 

megahertz. We are going to look for creative ideas that will go beyond what I now have counted as four different proposals for utilization of the D block. Those four proposals are an auction that involves a public-private partnership, somewhat along the lines of 

the failed auction in 2008; just a straight sale of D block to a commercial provider who prevails at auction; a gift of that D block to 

the public safety community; and then I think Dr. Fontes put a 

fourth possible approach on the table today by suggesting that 

there be an auction to a public-private partnership of all 20 megahertz, the 10 megahertz now in the hands of public safety plus the 

D block. That is a proposal I think made this morning for the first 

time. So I am going to ask for some brief comments from each of 

you and my time is almost expired, so again, be as brief as you can. 

Of these proposals before us, do any of these appeal to you? Do you 

think that there is some way that if we pursued any of these approaches we would derive the financing necessary to assure that 

the equipment is supplied in the spectrum to have a nationwide 

network? I am told that the price of that might be anywhere between $10 billion and $20 billion, and just a pure auction of the 

D block I am also told might derive no more than $3 billion, so that 

is about 10 percent of what the total cost would be. This is the conundrum we face, how do we go about doing this. So just a quick 

answer, your recommendations against the four proposals currently 

here, and if you don’t like any of those, let me have your own idea 

of what you think would work. Chief Bratton, do you want to 

begin? 

Chief BRATTON. Thank you, sir. Reinforcing my testimony that 

we believe it should just be given over to public safety and that 

would allow immediate movement of the waiver city requests 

where they already have the capability to start moving forward. 

That would allow also by implementation of those some 13, I think 

the number of waivers, to get up and running. We could start evaluating the efficacy of the systems that they are putting into place. 

And as I have testified, we believe that would be an investment 

and not a cost in the sense of giving it over to us. We really do believe that there is an ability to meet both major city needs but also 

the rural needs, as Harlin McEwen has talked about in his testimony. 

Mr. BOUCHER. I assume that if it were given to you, if you subleased it or otherwise disposed of it, that would produce some 

amount of revenue that you could use to build out. Do you think 

that would produce sufficient revenue for you to build out or would 

you have to look to the local government in Los Angeles for the balance? 

Chief BRATTON. I would be, I think, with what we are proposing, 

there would be no uniform way of moving forward. It really would 

be dependent on local, regional initiatives and—— 

Mr. BOUCHER. So you are saying local resources would have to 

supplement whatever revenue you derived? 

Chief BRATTON. That is a possibility, or local resources that come 

in through other funding sources. It does allow for a variety of 

ways to fund this as far as moving forward. 

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Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you. Let me move on, given the limitation 

of time. 

Dr. Fontes, just very briefly, and address, if you would, the problem in rural areas where the local resources might not be adequate 

to supplement whatever is derived from disposing of the D block 

were it given to the locality. 

Mr. FONTES. And that essentially is what NENA’s concern has 

been all along. In a report that many of my colleagues in public 

safety have endorsed, in that report itself it says that for many 

years to come, and it would take many years under this private 

partner relationship and then allowing public safety to negotiate 

agreements, it would take many years to build a near-ubiquitous 

service, and in the interim public safety in many parts of the country including rural America will have to rely on commercial services. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Dr. Fontes, thank you. I am going to move on to 

Chief McEwen. 

Chief MCEWEN. Well, as the chairman of the Public Safety Spectrum Trust, I have been involved in discussions, ongoing discussions with all of the possible commercials. The large two players 

in the 700 megahertz arena are AT&T and Verizon. I have been 

talking with U.S. Cellular, who is seated here today. I have had 

discussions with rural carriers in several States and with the National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative. There are a number 

of people who tell me, I am not a businessman, I am a public safety 

person, that this is a possible outcome, a good outcome if we had 

that spectrum that we could partner with people in rural areas and 

in the major urban areas to make this happen—— 

Mr. BOUCHER. To make the build-out happen? 

Chief MCEWEN. That is right, to make a build-out using in some 

cases existing commercial infrastructure and in other cases possibly building out in rural areas where it needs to be built out. So 

I believe it is possible—— 

Mr. BOUCHER. OK. Thank you, Chief McEwen. 

Mr. Barbour, very briefly, please. 

Mr. BARBOUR. The two plans I think that only speak to funding 

for rural America is the continued public-private partnership auction or auctioning it all off with the proceeds going to public safety. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you. 

Mr. Black. 

Mr. BLACK. Thank you. Well, we continue to believe a bottomsup approach, taking this at the regional level and for individual region to take into consideration the surrounding rural communities. 

They have existing funding mechanisms that they have available 

to them now. They have also grants available to them. And then 

of course, the lease of spectrum that they can do by having the additional 10 megahertz would provide an additional revenue source, 

and then finally using the leverage network model would greatly 

reduce the amount of capital required to build the area. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you. 

Mr. Hanley. 

Mr. HANLEY. So shared network model using 20 megahertz of 

spectrum and leveraging operator assets, it will be the lowest cost 

and that reduces the funding requirement. Shared use allowing 

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commercial capacity to be deployed on the network will contribute 

value, which will allow the cost to public safety of the network to 

be reduced. There are several ways to get there but the key is that 

we have to get to a shared model with a full partnership between 

public safety and commercial—— 

Mr. BOUCHER. Dr. Liopiros, very briefly, please. 

Mr. LIOPIROS. The two options that will reduce the funding requirements but not eliminate them are the auctioning the spectrum 

for commercial use or the option that NENA proposed in terms of 

combining the spectrum auction and giving some of the proceeds to 

public safety. Why half instead of all the proceeds, I am not sure, 

but that would certainly contribute. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Well, thank you all very much, and I have taken 

a large amount of time here. The chair intends to be very generous 

with other members in terms of their questioning time. 

Let me just comment that I appreciate the thoughtfulness you 

have applied to this. I am not sure that any of these proposals if 

implemented derive the revenues that we have to have in order to 

build out this spectrum, particularly in rural areas where local resources are quite limited and could not supplement whatever revenue comes from whatever utilization is made of the D block, and 

so my thought is that at the end of the day we are going to find 

ourselves looking for some kind of general fund revenues in order 

to finance this. So I honestly don’t know another avenue that we 

have open that can provide the assurance we have to have that we 

are going to get where we need to be. 

My time is expired, and at this point I am pleased to recognize 

the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Stearns. 

I guess I am not going to be recognizing Mr. Stearns. My, how 

you have changed. The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Shimkus, is 

recognized for 5 minutes. 

Mr. SHIMKUS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I have two, maybe 

a third one if I have time, but it is going to go to the whole panel, 

and it is based upon the opening statement that I made. 

First of all, if the commission were to re-auction the D block or 

if Congress decided to intervene, how should the licenses be divided, or should they? Should there be a national license or should 

there be a subdivision and what would that subdivision be if there 

were to be one? There is a lot of us who believe that a national license obviously was part of the problem. It didn’t do the trick. 

So let me start with Chief Bratton first and just go from your 

right to left, my left to right, and if you would answer that, I would 

appreciate it. 

Chief BRATTON. Our perspective is that either one would work. 

Mr. SHIMKUS. A national or any subdivision? 

Chief BRATTON. That is correct. 

Mr. FONTES. I think in encouraging more competitors, I think regional licenses whether it is a collection of States or breaking down 

the State level would probably attract more participants to the auction and enable more rural participation. 

Chief MCEWEN. The Public Safety Spectrum Trust can support 

either option. The regional approach is probably the more practical 

one now, having the failed first auction. 

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Mr. SHIMKUS. And let me chime in because part of the question 

was, regions as defined how. Do we have a better way of defining 

regions? I mean, if you don’t, that is fine, but because of your expertise if you know of one, if you share that? 

Chief MCEWEN. In the third further notice which is on the record 

that was put out last year, it did suggest a regional approach for 

50-some regions. In other words, it was based on the 700 megahertz regions now plus a couple of offshore regions so there is a regional makeup that we basically supported in those comments. 

Mr. SHIMKUS. Thank you. 

Mr. BARBOUR. I think the wish list would be a national licensee 

but I think in reality it is going to be a regional approach. 

Mr. BLACK. If it is a re-auction, we would support a regional approach. 

Mr. HANLEY. U.S. Cellular would support a regional approach, 

and we agree with the 55 regional planning areas or States as a 

model for doing that. 

Mr. LIOPIROS. I too would support a regional approach. I think 

it would get more commercial carriers involved in the implementation of the system. 

Mr. SHIMKUS. Thank you. That is better than I would have expected as far as a consistent response, so I think that does show 

some movement, Mr. Chairman. 

The other issue would be, and I talked it before, is two things. 

One is, I have always been concerned that we don’t have standardization of equipment out there and so the question—I mean, I am 

talking about nationally now. There may be some within departments and areas. But also I raised the issue of the expiration or 

the statutory deadline and the funding authority of September 30, 

2010, and I raise that. There is one bill, H.R. 3348, which would 

grant extensions to allow us to roll out. Would you be supportive 

of us moving rapidly to extending that ability? And Chief, if you 

would start and then go back down? 

Chief BRATTON. Very supportive. 

Mr. FONTES. Definitely I would support the standard equipment 

and I think all of public safety agrees that LTE is the de facto 

standard, and then with respect to the funding authority, I would 

support it. 

Mr. SHIMKUS. Let me follow—the fact that they have agreed, 

does it mean that it is? 

Mr. FONTES. No. 

Mr. SHIMKUS. And so something—there probably should be some 

certitude based upon law or rulemaking of a standard. 

Chief MCEWEN. I assume you are talking about the extension of 

the PSIC grant? Is that what you are talking about? OK. Well, first 

of all, I think we are in support, public safety, of extending those 

grants but those grants as currently written are not intended to 

fund this type of an operation. They are—— 

Mr. SHIMKUS. I understand that, but still, as Anna knows, we 

work on emergency response, 911 issues and so this is our chance 

to continue to raise other aspects. 

Chief MCEWEN. Well, we would support that but I just want to 

make sure everybody understands that money wouldn’t really bring 

anything to this issue. 

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Mr. SHIMKUS. In our opportunity to ask questions that are important to us, we take every opportunity to do that. 

Chief MCEWEN. Right. 

Mr. BARBOUR. I definitely support it. 

Mr. SHIMKUS. Thank you. 

Mr. BLACK. We would defer to our public safety partners. 

Mr. HANLEY. U.S. Cellular would support the extension. 

Mr. LIOPIROS. I too would support that. 

Mr. SHIMKUS. Thank you very much. And Mr. Chairman, with 

that, my time is expired. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Mr. Shimkus. 

The gentlelady from California, Ms. Eshoo, is recognized. 

Ms. ESHOO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Just an observation. We were talking about spectrum and how 

it can be used. I can’t help but think of the spectrum here from an 

Angelian with I think a Boston Irish accent to the other end of the 

spectrum, a wonderful, great and Deep South accent from North 

Carolina. Only in America. So we have got our own spectrum here. 

I want to ask some questions about the money because that is 

what is going to fuel this. I know that choices need to be made and 

I think the chairman did an excellent job of outlining basically four 

ways to go, what we have in front of us. You know, I mean, there 

is the subleasing. In terms of money, it can come from subleasing 

the spectrum or the money that is taken off the top of an auction 

or the partnerships. Now, Chief McEwen, you mentioned that you 

met with all commercial players. What is the price tag on this to 

have a ubiquitous system? See, what I am afraid of or I am fearful 

of in some of these ideas is, I am worried about inner cities and 

rural areas. They don’t really have any leverage. I don’t think they 

have leverage, anyway. That is my own take on it. So in talking 

to the commercial interests, what is the total sum of money that 

is needed nationally where we have a ubiquitous system? You 

know, any time we get into the weeds on this stuff, I take myself 

back to 9/11, to that fateful day where there was no interoperability between police and fire. God only knows who would have 

survived if we had the kind of system that almost a decade later 

we are trying to build out. So this is very real. So what do you 

think, or anyone else, the price tag is for this? 

Chief MCEWEN. First of all, nobody, I think, knows. 

Ms. ESHOO. Nobody knows? 

Chief MCEWEN. And so I would tell you that there have been 

numbers as low as $20 billion and as high as $40 billion, but what 

we have done is to basically ignore all of that, and the reason is 

that if we leverage as has been suggested by Mr. Black some of the 

existing infrastructure in the large companies, the small companies 

and the rural companies and then use public-private partnership to 

pay for the rest of the rural area, we believe that you can save a 

lot of money. In other words, this basically becomes achievable 

through that kind of a structure, and that $20 billion or whatever 

it is really means nothing at the end of the day because if you use 

the existing infrastructure of the carriers, U.S. Cellular—there are 

rural carriers that have infrastructure. The National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative has tremendous infrastructure, tower 

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sites, all kinds of things that we could leverage upon to save money 

to make this an affordable project. 

Ms. ESHOO. Does anyone else want to comment on it? 

Mr. HANLEY. I would say just briefly the cost depends obviously 

on specifications of the network, which—— 

Ms. ESHOO. I am sorry. I didn’t hear the first part. 

Mr. HANLEY. The ultimate, the total cost depends on what the 

specifications are for the network so there is indeed a range. I 

think the key from a funding perspective is to make that network 

as efficient as possible using the efficiencies that LTE provides in 

a larger 20 megahertz band, leveraging as much of the operator’s 

existing infrastructure as possible, and allowing commercial operators to get value out of it. 

Ms. ESHOO. I understand that. The part that I don’t want to 

come to, the scenario that I don’t want to see in this hearing room 

is, we have gone off, we have designed this, we have made our 

choices and now we are coming back to you because there is a tremendous shortfall and therefore we don’t have a ubiquitous system. 

We need to drill down to see how this thing is going to—what is 

needed to build this system. I think we have the building blocks 

for it. I think we are smart enough and we have the technologies 

to know what we want it to deliver but, you know what? Around 

here, price tags really do matter, and if there is going to be a shortfall for half of the $40 billion, then we need to take that into consideration in terms of what we do. I don’t want to short-circuit 

what we want to build because we come up short on the money, 

and I can’t believe that we don’t know that there is a range here 

between $20 and $40 billion. It is not fault or blame, I am just saying that we really need to plan this better. I don’t have any time 

left. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Instructive hearing. Thank you, all of 

you, for being here today and to our West Coast chief, thank you 

for the job that you do in the City of Angels. 

Mr. BOUCHER. Thank you very much, Ms. Eshoo. 

The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Stearns, is recognized. 

Mr. STEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that is one of 

the key questions, how much this is going to cost. Now, I think my 

staff and I thought it was $10 to $15 billion, so when someone 

mentioned $40 billion, that is quite larger than we expect. Mr. Hanley, do you think it would cost as much as $40 billion? I mean, the range I heard was $10 to $15 billion. Just quickly. 

Mr. HANLEY. If it is purpose built, dedicated with no leverage of 

existing infrastructure and it is built to very, very, very high standard, it could be at the high end of that range. 

Mr. STEARNS. Dr. Liopiros, do you think it could get by with $10 

to $15 billion? 

Mr. LIOPIROS. It is my point that some of the developments in 

terms of the municipalities that want to build out networks now, 

they are doing it with their own funds. If you project that with cost 

to cover the Nation, I think you come up with a lower figure than 

people are quoting. But it really boils down to, as Mr. Hanley mentioned before, what are the requirements for the system? What do 

you want it to do? And I would suggest that maybe people aren’t 

really quite sure what they want it to do and maybe they are just 

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kind of saying well, let us get as much spectrum as possible to 

cover any future growth. 

Mr. STEARNS. But auctioning off the D block might not only— well, it won’t even approach getting this money, maybe get $2 billion or $3 billion, so the real question comes down to, the fundamental question is, where are we going to get the money to do this. 

Now, I think after listening to you, many of us are starting to think 

that perhaps the government through general revenue should provide this. I think the chairman talked about this. And so I think 

what we have here is, it is so important, in fact the public safety 

community on September 11, 1996, indicated that we need to have 

a broadband network for public safety so it is sort of ironic that on 

September 11th when they issued their report in 1996, they talked 

about it. So the need is out there. We have got to get moving. So 

if we can’t agree on anything, we should agree that we have got 

to get the revenue from somewhere and perhaps general revenue 

is an area that we could look at. 

So the next question is, if we get the general revenue, should we 

use the D block in combination with the 24 megahertz or can we 

put it all in the 24 megahertz? And I guess, Dr. Liopiros, why 

couldn’t we use just the 24 megahertz spectrum, take the D block, 

auction it off to the broadband private sector, get the money from 

that? That would increase the broadband capabilities so all of us 

in our wireless would be enhanced and then use the 24 megahertz 

as the network for public safety? Is that doable? 

Mr. LIOPIROS. I think that is doable over time. 

Mr. STEARNS. OK. Now, within that, there is some question of 

whether 10 of it should be for broadband and 14 of it should be 

voice. Is it possible that we could use VoIP, voice over Internet, and 

we could use the whole 24 for broadband with voice over Internet 

so that the entire 24 megahertz is available? So is that technically 

possible? Is there a sense that that would be reliable? 

Mr. LIOPIROS. Technically it is possible. VoIP will be provided by 

LTE and also the developments in LTE that allow them to also 

support the traditional circuit-switched voice applications as well. 

Currently, public safety is oriented towards two separate approaches, the traditional narrowband voice and over that is going 

to be overlaid a wideband capability, but I think over time you can 

actually bet on what is going to happen is, that combining the two 

blocks and having a one wider broadband capability to support 

narrowband voice applications as well as broadband capability. 

Mr. STEARNS. OK. Is—— 

Mr. LIOPIROS. And that makes more efficient use of the total 

spectrum. 

Mr. STEARNS. Yes. Is public safety already talking about VoIP in 

some way? 

Mr. LIOPIROS. I know some have talked about using it. I don’t 

know what the official position is. 

Mr. STEARNS. Chief? 

Chief MCEWEN. Well, I mean, I think you are asking the wrong 

person here. I mean, we are the public safety people and he is a 

commercial guy. Here is the issue—— 

Mr. STEARNS. Well, I am looking for somebody who is an engineer. 

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Chief MCEWEN. I know. Well, but here is the issue. Right 

now—— 

Mr. STEARNS. Didn’t you work for the Department of Defense at 

one time? 

Mr. LIOPIROS. Yes, I did. 

Mr. STEARNS. OK. So I don’t know if you want to discredit him 

because I think—— 

Chief MCEWEN. I won’t discredit him, but the answer is very 

simple. At the moment today as we sit here, there is no broadband 

technology on the drawing board or planned to replace mission-critical voice as public safety knows it today. That is a dangerous 

thing, a leap of faith for people to assume that you could just build 

a broadband network to take the place of mission-critical voice systems. 

Mr. STEARNS. OK. I accept that. I mean, that is true. But how 

about this? If you take and give 14 megahertz for voice and 10 

megahertz for broadband and use the 24 megahertz as a network 

for public safety, Chief, would that be satisfactory to you? 

Chief MCEWEN. See, the problem is that the 24 megahertz, the 

reason it was split into half being narrowband voice for missioncritical land mobile systems is because that is critical to us today. 

We can’t abandon that because there is no alternative. VoIP 

broadband is not acceptable for mission-critical systems and the 

technology—— 

Mr. STEARNS. But do you think—— 

Chief MCEWEN. It just isn’t. 

Mr. STEARNS. OK. All right. Well, I will just conclude, Mr. Chairman, just by saying this. Is it possible, Dr. Hanley, that with the 

24 megahertz between voice 14 and broadband 10 would be satisfactory? Just yes or no, either one of you. 

Mr. FONTES. Yes. 

Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Hanley. 

Mr. HANLEY. Yes. 

Mr. STUPAK. [Presiding] We are going to stand in recess. We 

have about 3 minutes left to vote. Congresswoman Harman is 

going to come right back and she should have voted. She should be 

back here any second. We will keep this hearing going. Members 

are going to vote and run right back, so we will just ask you to hold 

tight. We will be in recess until Congresswoman Harman or someone on this side can take the chair. 

[Recess.] 

Ms. HARMAN. [Presiding] Reconvene. I would like the supreme 

irony that I, a former member of this subcommittee, came back 

today because I feel so strongly about this subject and now I am 

chairing the subcommittee. Go figure. At any rate, thank you all 

for coming and I want to reiterate the message that you have already heard and that you agree with, which is we need to get on 

with this. Does anyone disagree with that? No. Yesterday, at the 

request of Chairman Waxman, I introduced H.R. 3633, which is to 

extend the PSIC grant program for 1 year and then after that to 

extend it on a case-by-case basis. That is because as all of you 

know, there were some delays in DHS’s action and we think that 

that unfairly burdens you, those of you who are in the law enforcement business, at a time when State and local budgets are flat to 

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negative. So hopefully it will pass the Senate. Senators Rockefeller 

and Hutchinson have introduced it there. That would be good news 

since they are the chairman and ranking member of the Senate 

Commerce Committee and with Congressman Waxman’s support I 

would think we would be in good shape here too. So relief is coming. 

Having said that, however, as some of you commented, that is 

not the same as this. Having grants for equipment at the local level 

is not the same thing as building out a national interoperable network, and I want to ask you a couple of questions about that, but 

first I do want to say to my own chief that we will miss you. Your 

record is extraordinary. The one thing you didn’t get done was this 

project, which I assigned you some years ago, and you failed me, 

but aside from that, Los Angeles residents including me are very, 

very grateful for your service and we wish you well, and as my 

good friend, you and I know will stay in touch. 

So my question about this is the following. I heard the discussion 

about regional build-out. I also heard the discussion about do we 

use public money since the auction has not succeeded as of yet or 

not. I don’t know what the best answer is there but my bottom line 

is, let us just do it the best way we can as quickly as we can. But 

my question is this. I have been concerned that we might be pedaling backwards, and I want to explain that, that we might be, at 

least some parts of the country, might be building out local interoperable networks but those networks are not interoperable with 

other networks. So in other words, sort of the way I see it, we are 

going operable around the country but we are making it harder to 

go interoperable because those networks don’t converge in the way 

they would need to, and I see Chief McEwen nodding so I am going 

to ask him first but then ask for some other comments. 

Chief MCEWEN. Well, it is a legitimate concern, and we have 

been addressing that concern. The National Public Safety Telecommunications Council formed a broadband taskforce to address 

that issue and they have just released their report to us. We are 

in the process of reviewing that. And that is an attempt to make 

sure that these early build-outs in San Francisco, New York City, 

Boston, wherever are going to be fully interoperable with any of the 

rest of the network as it is built out. We are absolutely convinced 

that we have the ability to do that and that we have the necessary 

tools to move that forward and not have that a problem. 

Ms. HARMAN. Is that a promise? 

Chief MCEWEN. That is a promise, because if it doesn’t—I represent both the small guys in the police world and the big guys, 

and if I don’t perform for both, I am basically out of a job. 

Ms. HARMAN. And you represent the rural guys and the urban 

guys? 

Chief MCEWEN. I do. 

Ms. HARMAN. Because that matters to me too. I mean, as all of 

you know, I have spent a lot of years focused on what could happen 

here and it could happen in our smallest communities as well as 

our largest, and since the attacks in the future will be asymmetric, 

I mean, that is the trade craft of our enemy, it very easily could 

happen in small areas that at the moment aren’t adequately 

networked. 

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Do others of you have comments? Chief Bratton, do you want to 

defend yourself against my comments? 

Chief BRATTON. That is my understanding, that this will be addressed. If I may, as a follow-on to a question that was going on 

just before the break about the cost of this and the wide variety 

of estimates, to give a bit of perspective on it, the system that we 

have been designing over the last 4 years in Los Angeles involving 

Los Angeles County, 45 cities, we estimate the system for that 10- 

million-person area would be about a $700 million project just for 

that area to get interoperability the way we are designing it. 

Ms. HARMAN. Yes, sir? 

Mr. FONTES. I do believe that interoperability is critically important and I certainly support that. I am thinking of broadband context interoperability and particularly the work that has been done 

by the council. It has been very helpful in working on roaming and 

interoperability. I too would like to add one additional point to the 

funding issue, and that is simply to get a one-time shot of money 

does very little to enable public safety to plan and build for the future and so there is essentially a need, and Chairman Boucher 

summarized that there is a need for in this case perhaps general 

Treasury monies in some way, shape or form to provide that capability of planning so that you will know from one year to the next 

what you need and what you have to spend. It is basically how we 

run our households, and we know public safety is essentially the 

same. 

Ms. HARMAN. If I could just insert there, and we do have a little 

more time because we don’t have any other members here, so as 

the new chair of this subcommittee, I am planning to take a little 

more time. The stability of funding and the amount of funding are 

clearly relevant, and as Chief Bratton well knows, $700 million is 

not chump change. That is a lot of money. I think as important as 

the funding and sustainability questions there are, are the questions, and they may have been asked in my absence, about whether 

our build-out will be state of the art and future-proof, and so let 

me just ask our private sector partners to put that back in the 

table too in the context of sustainable funding and amount of funding. I mean, what are your thoughts about this? 

Mr. BLACK. Well, from AT&T’s perspective, you know, the choice 

of LTE is an excellent choice because it is the state of the art and 

it is also evolving. That is why they call it long-term evolution. The 

fact that public safety has chosen it means that they are going to 

be able to ride the coattails of an industry that already has proved 

to be very, very strong in terms of technological advancement, and 

to that end, AT&T participated in the same broadband taskforce 

that Chief McEwen mentioned, and to your point about a sense of 

urgency, we have actually been very bullish about this and once 

there was consensus among the public safety community about 

going to LTE, we have become proactive in working with our device 

vendors of adding the public safety spectrum to the commercial 

spectrum to try to drive down the cost and we think that is the 

kind of partnership that needs to happen. 

Ms. HARMAN. Any other comments? 

Mr. HANLEY. Yes, I would just echo the comment about LTE. I 

think that is very important to achieving sustainability, but we 

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have to recognize that the network will evolve. I think that folks 

that build networks will have to take on the responsibility for remaining interoperable, even if that requires investments in the future. I think also the sustainability of the overall ecosystem of devices will be enhanced by having commercial users be part of that 

process. That is another reason for shared use. 

Ms. HARMAN. I strongly agree with that. I represent a part of the 

country that makes most of our intelligence satellites, and over the 

years we have been able to evolve better and better capability because a lot of those satellite makers also make commercial satellites and the dual-use nature of those buses and even some of the 

stuff that is put on them has enabled it to evolve better. So I am 

strongly in favor of a public-private partnership and of an evolving 

architecture that will help law enforcement see the future and 

grandparents in Congress see the future in ways that we might not 

otherwise. So that makes a lot of sense. 

Let me just finally ask you as a very impatient person who has 

only spent about 8 years pushing on this, when do you really think 

we will get there from here? 

Chief MCEWEN. Well, we are never going to get there until you 

help us get there. I can guarantee you that. So it is a matter of 

making decisions. The decision we are asking you to make right 

now is to pass legislation to take the D block off the auction block. 

Either that has to happen or there has to be an auction, and the 

problem is that at the moment we don’t know when either of those 

may happen. So, I mean, it isn’t going to go forward until one of 

those happens. 

Ms. HARMAN. Yes? 

Mr. FONTES. I would reverse the priority. I would think that the 

most important thing if I were in your shoes as chairman, I think 

the most important thing is to ensure that there is funding available on a recurring basis. With that funding available, whether it 

is all owned and controlled by public safety environment or even 

if it is a shared partnership with the private world, that funding 

is essential to—you made a reference to the buses and how they 

can plan on the buses on these satellites. That is exactly what is 

going to happen in the broadband world. You have to be able to pay 

for and plan, plan and pay for the applications that will benefit all 

of us in public safety. So funding on a recurring basis is essential. 

Ms. HARMAN. Well, thank you very much. Let me just conclude 

my hearing with the observation that you are all right and that 

progress in individual counties and cities, especially huge ones like 

L.A. County and City, is critical. Sustained funding is critical. Congress acting is critical. The FCC acting is critical. And industry 

staying at the cutting edge is critical so I think this is our most 

urgent project. Nine eleven happened to us, or 9/11 exposed two big 

fissures in our capability. One was, we had a lot of stovepipe intelligence agencies that couldn’t talk to each other or even talk to 

themselves in the case of one agency, and the other was that we 

had a completely inadequate interoperable communications system, 

and the combination of those two things resulted in catastrophic 

damage and loss of life in America and it is something we will 

never forget. So we have done substantial work to fix the lack of 

information sharing in our government. We have done intelligence 

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reform. We have done all kinds of things that I think have put us 

in a much better place with respect to that. But we have far too 

little to build out a truly national interoperable communications 

network, and you folks are all bright and you know what is needed 

and I think most of the folks on this committee on a bipartisan 

basis are committed to make it happen. Now we just have to do it. 

And I thank you for staying during the voting period, and I want 

to express my gratitude to all on this committee for naming me the 

new chair of the subcommittee. 

The subcommittee hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 10:15 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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Insert offset folio 126 here 74100A.076
117 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 127 here 74100A.077
118 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 128 here 74100A.078
119 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 129 here 74100A.079
120 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 130 here 74100A.080
121 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 131 here 74100A.081
122 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 132 here 74100A.082
123 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 133 here 74100A.083
124 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 134 here 74100A.084
125 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 135 here 74100A.085
126 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 136 here 74100A.086
127 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 137 here 74100A.087
128 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 138 here 74100A.088
129 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 139 here 74100A.089
130 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 140 here 74100A.090
131 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 141 here 74100A.091
132 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 142 here 74100A.092
133 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 143 here 74100A.093
134 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 144 here 74100A.094
135 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 145 here 74100A.095
136 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 146 here 74100A.096
137 

jbell on DSK7SPTVN1PROD with HEARING


Insert offset folio 147 here 74100A.097