1



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5



## Pretreatment Public Hearing on the 6



## Proposed Effluent Guidelines for the 7



## Steam Electric Power Generating Category 8

9

10

11



## 1:02 to 5:15 p.m. 12



## Tuesday, July 9, 2013 13

14



## EPA East Building 15



## Room 1153 16



## 1201 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 17



## Washington, D.C. 20210 18

19

20

21

222



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## EPA Panel: 1



## ROBERT WOOD, Director, 2



## Engineering and Analysis Division, 3



## Office of Water, EPA 4



## ERIC STRASSLER, Environmental Protection 5



## Specialist, Engineering and Analysis Division, 6



## Office of Water, EPA 7



## JAN MATUSZKO, Branch Chief, Engineering and 8



## Analysis Division, Office of Water, EPA 9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

223



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S 1



## PAGE 2



## Session A 3



## ELAINE CHIOSSO, Waterkeeper Alliance 12 4



## JARED SAYLOR, Earthjustice 15 5



## JENNIFER PETERS, Clean Water Action 19 6



## WHITNEY BYRD, 7



## Wise Energy for Virginia Coalition 23 8



## ANGELIQUE GIRAUD, Clean Water Action 26 9



## MARK YAGGI, Waterkeeper Alliance 31 10



## ALEXIS SEGAL, Biscayne Bay Waterkeeper 36 11



## CHERYL NENN **,** Milwaukee Riverkeeper 40 12



## FRED TUTMAN, Patuxent Riverkeeper 45 13



## DONNA LISENBY, Watauga Riverkeeper 50 14



## SAM PERKINS, Catawba Riverkeeper Foundation 55 15



## PATRICIA SCHUBA, 16



## Labadie Environmental Organization 60 17

18



## Session B 19



## ROBIN BRODER, Potomac Riverkeeper 64 20



## DIANA DASCALU-JOFFE, 21



## Chesapeake Climate Action Network 67 224



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## SESSION B (continued) 3



## RAE SCHNAPP, Wabash Riverkeeper 72 4



## JULIA WYNN, Earthjustice 76 5



## MARY ANNE HITT, Sierra Club 79 6



## CLAUDIA FRIEDETZKY, Maryland Sierra Club 83 7



## CRAIG SEGALL, Sierra Club 87 8



## MELINDA PIERCE, Sierra Club 92 9



## VANESSA PIERCE, Sierra Club 94 10



## ELENA RIOS, 11



## National Hispanic Medical Association 98 12



## ALLISON CHIN, Sierra Club 100 13



## KRISTIN COOK **,** Resident of Maryland 104 14

15



## SESSION C 16



## KATE ORTENZI, Resident of Maryland 107 17



## KEVIN BROMBERG, 18



## U.S. Small Business Administration 111 19



## AOIFE SEMAR, Sierra Club 115 20



## DISHA BANIK, Sierra Club 117 21



## ERNEST LEHMAN, Sierra Club 120 225



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## SESSION C (continued) 3



## MATT WASSON, Appalachian Voices 125 4



## PHILLIP COLLINS, Sierra Club 130 5



## LESLIE FIELDS, Sierra Club 132 6



## MARK MAGAÑA, National Latino Coalition on 7



## Climate Change 138 8



## ROGER RIVERA, National Hispanic 9



## Environmental Council 141 10



## DR. YOLANDA WHYTE 146 11

12



## SESSION D 13



## RODRIGO SAMAYOA, Beyond Oil Campaign 149 14



## JAMES VANDEVENTER, Beyond Oil Campaign 153 15



## BRENNA MULLER, read statement for 16



## Elizabeth Perera, Sierra Club 156 17



## ALYCE ORTUZAR, Sierra Club 159 18



## MARC IMLAY, Sierra Club 161 19



## DOUG AUS, Sierra Club 163 20



## JOSHUA ALLEN, Sierra Club 165 21



## MICHAEL HORKA, Resident of D.C. 168 226



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



## PAGE 2



## SESSION D (continued) 3



## THOMAS RICHARDS, American University Student 172 4



## TERRY McGUIRE, Sierra Club 174 5

6



## SESSION E 7



## ANDRE SAUVAGEOT, Sierra Club 180 8



## BRENDAN CLINE, Sierra Club 183 9



## THERSA PUGH, 10



## American Public Power Association 186 11



## KRISTY BULLEIT, Hunton & Williams, on behalf 12



## Of Utility Water Act Group 189 13



## ARIEL SOLOSKI, read statement for Jennifer 14



## Duggan, Environmental Integrity Project 196 15



## DR. LIH YOUNG, Sierra Club 199 16



## SHILPA SHENVI, Chesapeake Climate Action 17



## Network 203 18



## STAN BOYD, MCCC 206 19



## CINDY OLSON, I See Pollution 208 20



## BRENNA MULLER, Sierra Club 211 21

227



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## P R O C E E D I N G S 1



## MR. WOOD: Good afternoon, everybody. 2



## We're going to get this show on the road here in 3



## just a minute. We have a few people taking their 4



## seats still, but we do need to start on time. 5



## My name is Robert Wood. I am the 6



## director of the Engineering Analysis Division in 7



## EPA's Office of Water here at EPA Headquarters, 8



## and my division is, among other things, 9



## responsible for what we're here to talk about, 10



## which is the proposal that was published in the 11



## Federal Register on June 7th of 2013, “Effluent 12



## Guidelines and Standards for the Steam Electric 13



## Power Generating Point Source Category," and, of 14



## course, this is under the Clean Water Act. 15



## So I'd like to welcome you here today and 16



## thank you very much for your interest in this 17



## rulemaking. It's important to EPA to hear from 18



## you, and as we look forward to finalizing this 19



## rule, the stakeholder views that we hear from you 20



## today that are also submitted as part of the 21



## record are very important to us. 228



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Today's hearing is about the pretreatment 1



## standards that are contained in this larger Steam 2



## Electric Effluent Limitations Guidelines and 3



## Standards, Proposed Rule. 4



## EPA is not going to be presenting any 5



## information today or answer questions. Format of 6



## this session is designed to hear from you, so, 7



## again, we will not be presenting. 8



## By last count, we had 58 registered 9



## speakers, and so in order to accommodate 10



## everyone, we've actually -- we originally planned 11



## to end this hearing at about four o'clock. We've 12



## got the room here until 6 p.m. in order to make 13



## room for everybody who is registered, and we are 14



## going to strictly adhere to, if we can, a 15



## 4-minute limitation on each individual's 16



## statements. 17



## We are also going to include a transcript 18



## of today's public hearing in the rulemaking 19



## record, so that will be available to the public 20



## to review, and if you do not wish to speak or if 21



## you wish to provide your information to EPA in 229



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## writing, please do so. Please submit your 1



## comments to the rulemaking record, and there are 2



## instructions on exactly how to do that in the 3



## June 7th Federal Register notice. 4



## We recently extended the period for 5



## public comment to September 20th, 2013, so that 6



## was a 45-day extension. Originally, that public 7



## comment period was going to close on August 6th, 8



## so it's now September 20th, 2013, and there's a 9



## Federal Register notice forthcoming on that. It 10



## may be about a week or two away, but if you look 11



## at EPA's website, where hopefully you've been to 12



## that website and seen the information that's 13



## posted there, the extension to the public comment 14



## period is posted there as well. 15



## I will add that we are planning an 16



## information session during the public comment 17



## period on this proposal. We have not yet 18



## concluded how exactly we are going to conduct 19



## that information session. My guess is it will be 20



## a webinar, but, again, we are putting the 21



## finishing touches on that, so look for an 2210



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## announcement on that on our website. For those 1



## of you who are registered for this hearing today 2



## and have provided us your contact information, 3



## we'll let you know directly about that by e-mail. 4



## Next, I'd like to introduce a few people 5



## who are here. To my right is Jan Matuszko. Jan 6



## is the branch chief here at EPA who is the 7



## managing branch chief on this rulemaking, and Jan 8



## has had a very big part in the formulation of the 9



## proposal. 10



## And also, Ron Jordon, who is in the back 11



## of the room -- Ron, please stand -- Ron is the 12



## team leader and arguably the most knowledgeable 13



## person on the planet on the content of this rule. 14



## We also have some of the team members 15



## here. I am looking to see if I see them right 16



## now. Well, you may see them around. I don't see 17



## them in the room at the moment, but, Cuc 18



## Schroeder and James Covington, if you are here, 19



## please stand. I think they are still working on 20



## getting people in the room. 21



## And then Eric Strassler, Eric is also on 2211



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the team that formulated this proposal, and 1



## today, Eric has the job of managing this hearing. 2



## We are going to stick to the 4-minute time frame. 3



## Eric is responsible for letting you know when you 4



## are approaching your 1-minute mark, and, Eric, I 5



## think you will have some other logistical points 6



## that maybe you want to make before we get 7



## started. 8



## MR. STRASSLER: Yeah. Thank you, Rob. 9



## Good afternoon. 10



## Just so you know, the rest rooms are out 11



## by the lobby near the security desk. You may 12



## need to ask somebody to point you in the right 13



## direction for that. 14



## If you have any cell phones or other 15



## gadgets that make noise, please put them on 16



## vibrate or turn them off. Thank you. 17



## Okay. I think we are ready to get 18



## started. 19



## MR. WOOD: Yes. And I will just again 20



## say welcome. We are really glad to host you here 21



## today and looking forward to hearing what you 2212



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## have to say. 1



## Session A 2



## MR. STRASSLER: Okay. We are just going 3



## in the order by which we were notified that you 4



## wanted to testify. There were a couple of 5



## substitutions. 6



## The first one is Elaine Chiosso, and 7



## there's 4 minutes. 8



## MS. CHIOSSO: So I am Elaine Chiosso, the 9



## Haw Riverkeeper from Chatham County, North 10



## Carolina, member of Waterkeeper Alliance. 11



## Haw River is home to a million people in 12



## central North Carolina, and its waters flow down 13



## to counties and cities along the Cape Fear River 14



## where the Sutton Coal Power Plant pollutes the 15



## waters there. 16



## Thank you for this public hearing on the 17



## proposal to clean up water pollution from 18



## coal-burning power plants. More stringent 19



## national standards to protect people in our 20



## waters is long overdue, and I know I speak for 21



## many people in North Carolina who cannot be here 2213



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## today but whose waters are impacted by coal plant 1



## wastewater effluent. 2



## This effluent, whether pretreated or 3



## discharged, needs to be treated to remove all 4



## toxins before discharge. These include metals 5



## like arsenic, selenium, mercury, and lead, and 6



## exposure can lead to birth defects, cancer, and 7



## even death. We urge you to adopt zero discharge 8



## standards, and the majority of power plants don't 9



## use public water treatment facilities. That's 10



## included in North Carolina, so it makes it 11



## critically important for EPA to adopt rules that 12



## will require all coal-burning plants to install 13



## zero liquid discharge technology and convert to 14



## safer coal ash handling. 15



## Our nation must adopt the strongest 16



## standards in order to protect people whose waters 17



## are receiving streams for the effluent. The 18



## rules that are adopted will not control pollution 19



## in isolation. Right now, all surface waters in 20



## North Carolina are considered impaired for too 21



## much mercury under the 303(d) rules of the Clean 2214



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Water Act. Airborne mercury from coal-fired 1



## power plants is a main source, but there are 2



## other sources that we need to look at 3



## cumulatively. 4



## In my watershed, there is a medical waste 5



## incinerator that has permitted emissions of 6



## mercury and lead. The coal ash ponds that are 7



## the legacy of the Cape Fear Coal Power Plant, 8



## built in 1923, are another environmental pathway 9



## for mercury and other toxins to enter the river. 10



## People all over the United States are waiting for 11



## the rules to address the danger and contamination 12



## from coal ash ponds. 13



## So every region of the country has these 14



## multiple sources of toxins that people are 15



## exposed to, and these pathways must all be 16



## factored into the overall load of heavy metals 17



## when we are looking at stricter guidelines for 18



## coal plant effluent. 19



## Industry has succeeded in setting out 20



## some weaker options, getting those on the table, 21



## and I urge you to select the most protective 2215



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## options and not let those who pollute make their 1



## profit at the expense of our health and our clean 2



## waters. Industry should not be allowed to 3



## continue to have an environmental mess that 4



## future generations will need to clean up. 5



## These are long overdue standards, and we 6



## urge you to adopt new stringent rules as soon as 7



## possible, adopt rules that will save lives, 8



## protect children from getting sick, and bring us 9



## closer to the promise of the Clean Water Act of 10



## fishable, swimmable, and drinkable waters. 11



## Thank you very much. 12



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 13



## Next is Jared Saylor. 14



## MR. SAYLOR: Good afternoon. My name is 15



## Jared Saylor. I am the campaign director at 16



## Earthjustice, the nation's largest non-profit 17



## environmental law organization. On behalf of 18



## Earthjustice, I submit these comments at this 19



## public hearing and thank you for this 20



## opportunity. 21



## An updating of these rules is long 2216



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## overdue. The current rules have not been updated 1



## since 1982 and do almost nothing to address 2



## discharges of toxic metals from power plants, 3



## such as arsenic, mercury, selenium, and lead that 4



## are doing massive harm. 5



## As EPA itself has recognized, power plant 6



## pollution is a threat to human life, aquatic 7



## life, and wildlife, and ongoing pollution from 8



## power plants is a major impediment to cleaning up 9



## waterways that are already polluted. 10



## This is a growing problem. As power 11



## plants all over the country are installing new 12



## air pollution controls to meet EPA's much-needed 13



## health-based air quality standards, a substantial 14



## portion of the harmful pollution that formerly 15



## was admitted into the air is now being discharged 16



## into our waters. Power plants that install air 17



## pollution controls have exponentially greater 18



## levels of toxic pollutants in their wastewater. 19



## If the EPA doesn't finalize a strong rule that 20



## requires power plants to address all of their 21



## toxic pollutants, then it will be trading one set 2217



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of public health and environmental problems for 1



## another. 2



## The benefits of cleaning up this 3



## pollution far outweigh the costs. EPA's own 4



## cost-benefit analysis, which we believe 5



## undercount or do not monetize many of the 6



## benefits of cleaning up this harmful pollution, 7



## demonstrates the benefits of a strong rule. 8



## These benefits include the health benefits of 9



## restoring hundreds of miles of our rivers so that 10



## their fish are safe to eat and pregnant women and 11



## children are exposed to less harmful mercury and 12



## lead, not to mention benefits to wildlife, 13



## drinking water quality, recreation and tourism, 14



## and property values. 15



## By contrast, EPA found that the vast 16



## majority of power plants will be able to meet 17



## even the strongest of the rule's requirements by 18



## spending less than 1 percent of their annual 19



## revenue and with minimal impact on electricity 20



## rates or grid reliability. No matter how you 21



## slice the numbers, there is no doubt that the 2218



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## rule will greatly benefit the country with costs 1



## that can be reasonably born by the industry. 2



## EPA should choose either Option 4 or 3



## Option 5. The Clean Water Act requires that EPA 4



## base these critical protections on the best 5



## available technology economically achievable to 6



## reduce or eliminate pollution. EPA's Options 4 7



## and 5 identify a number of technologies that live 8



## up to the standard, including treatment systems 9



## such as dry ash handling and vapor compression 10



## evaporation that have the potential to completely 11



## eliminate toxic pollution from certain wastewater 12



## streams. 13



## EPA has found that these stringent 14



## treatment options are available and cost 15



## effective, and there is no legal basis for EPA to 16



## require anything less than a strong rule that 17



## fully lives up to the Clean Water Act's 18



## requirements that pollution be eliminated 19



## wherever it is feasible to do so. EPA should 20



## choose Option 5. 21



## Lastly, the EPA has called this hearing 2219



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## on only a portion of the Proposed Rule: the 1



## pretreatment standards. We encourage the EPA to 2



## hold an additional hearing on the full scope of 3



## the rule. Many communities across the country 4



## are affected by this pollution, and their stories 5



## deserve to be heard. We hope the EPA will 6



## conduct public hearings in affected communities 7



## on the full spectrum of this proposal. 8



## Thank you. 9



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 10



## Jennifer Peters? 11



## MS. PETERS: Hi. Good afternoon. My 12



## name is Jennifer Peters, and I am National Water 13



## Campaign's coordinator for Clean Water Action, 14



## and we appreciate the opportunity to provide 15



## comments on EPA's proposed effluent guidelines. 16



## Clean Water Action is a national 17



## organization working in 15 states on a wide range 18



## of health and environmental challenges, with a 19



## particular focus on drinking water issues, and I 20



## want to acknowledge that I have about a dozen or 21



## so of our field canvas staff here from Baltimore 2220



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and from D.C. And these are the folks, for the 1



## past month, they have been knocking on thousands 2



## of doors across the country to educate the public 3



## on the importance of cleaning up these toxic 4



## discharges from power plants, so I just wanted to 5



## acknowledge them. 6



## So while the EPA has called this hearing 7



## specifically on the pretreatment part of the 8



## Proposed Rule, the vast majority of power plants 9



## do not send their waste to publicly owned 10



## treatment works, and we believe it is important 11



## for EPA to hear from the public on the rule as a 12



## whole. And in fact, last month, we submitted a 13



## letter to EPA that had over 35 organizations 14



## signed onto this from across the country and 15



## requesting that the agency broaden the scope of 16



## today's hearing to consider public testimony on 17



## all aspects of the Proposed Rule. 18



## So we were disappointed not to receive a 19



## response from EPA in time for today's hearing and 20



## hope that the agency will respond to our concerns 21



## in a timely fashion. 2221



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## EPA has proposed several options that 1



## vary significantly in the amount of power plant 2



## wastewater pollution that would be controlled. 3



## For example, the weakest preferred option would 4



## only control 468 million pounds of pollution, 5



## while the most stringent option, though not 6



## preferred by EPA, would control 5.3 billion 7



## pounds of pollution. 8



## It is our understanding that the 9



## pretreatment standards that EPA has proposed are 10



## essentially identical to the standards proposed 11



## for plants discharging directly into streams, 12



## lakes, rivers, and other water. Both sets of 13



## standards need to be as stringent as possible, 14



## meaning that they should require power plants to 15



## treat all of their toxic wastewater, not just 16



## some of it. 17



## Clean Water Action is particularly 18



## concerned that none of the four preferred options 19



## for pretreatment standards or direct discharge 20



## standards would require power plants to control 21



## for bromide. Bromide in wastewater discharge is 2222



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## upstream of drinking water intakes, has been 1



## linked to the formation of trihalomethanes, or 2



## THMs, when it is exposed to disinfectants or 3



## processes in water treatment plants. By EPA's 4



## own estimate, approximately 37 percent of all 5



## power plants are located near a drinking water 6



## intake for surface water. These disinfection 7



## byproducts are known to cause cancer and 8



## reproductive and developmental health effects, 9



## which is why public water systems must comply 10



## with regulations to reduce these by products. 11



## If power plant wastewater contributes to 12



## the formation of disinfection byproducts in 13



## drinking water treatment plants, that can mean 14



## increased exposure and health risk to those 15



## drinking that water. This is by no means an 16



## abstract problem if you are a person drinking 17



## that water. It is also not an abstract matter to 18



## the public water system that has to figure out 19



## how to adjust treatment that has been thrown out 20



## of balance. 21



## Of EPA's eight proposed options, only 2223



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Option 5 would require power plants to control 1



## for bromide or other total dissolved solids. 2



## Clean Water Action believes that EPA should 3



## require power plants that discharge to POTWs or 4



## are directly discharging to surface water to 5



## control for these pollutants in order to protect 6



## the quality of the public's drinking water 7



## sources. 8



## Technology exists to effectively 9



## eliminate nearly all water pollution from power 10



## plants, and it is time to end the power plant 11



## industry's unlimited permit to pollute, which 12



## stands in the way of cleaning up our rivers, 13



## streams, and lakes. 14



## Thank you for the opportunity to provide 15



## these comments. 16



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 17



## Next is Whitney Byrd. 18



## MS. BYRD: Hi. My name is Whitney Byrd, 19



## and I am the coordinator of the Wise Energy for 20



## Virginia Coalition. Supporters of the coalition 21



## group’s number over 50,000 Virginians. 2224



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I am here today to speak in support of 1



## EPA's most stringent options for limitations on 2



## effluents for the steam electric sector, 3



## specifically Option 4 and, most preferred, Option 4



## 5. 5



## Since the ELG has not been updated since 6



## 1982, the most stringent options for effluent 7



## limitation are preferred to bring the regulations 8



## up to date with the best available technology. 9



## Virginia has many reasons to support 10



## stringent limitations on effluence from power 11



## plants. Virginia ranks 18th in the U.S. for 12



## production of coal ash and has 25 coal ash ponds 13



## and 11 power plants. Eight of the ponds are 14



## classified as significant hazards, meaning 15



## failure would cause economic and environmental 16



## damage. 17



## In 2011, EPA gave a poor rating to two of 18



## the significant hazard ash ponds that I just 19



## mentioned: the Dominion Chesapeake Energy Center 20



## and Appalachian Power's Clinch River Coal Plant. 21



## So I'm going to talk to those two as case 2225



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## studies. 1



## Virginia is located within the Chesapeake 2



## Bay watershed, which is very sensitive to 3



## nutrient pollution that causes large dissolved 4



## oxygen-depleting algal blooms. Steam electric 5



## plant effluents contribute large cumulative 6



## nutrient pollution loads, which undermine the 7



## efforts to reduce other sources of nutrient 8



## pollution from entering the Chesapeake Bay. 9



## Dominion's Chesapeake Energy Center is a 10



## concern for many reasons, but among those is that 11



## failure would release coal ash into the Elizabeth 12



## River and into the Chesapeake Bay. The Energy 13



## Center's 22-acre leaking coal ash landfill has 14



## contaminated groundwater with high levels of 15



## arsenic, with one test well measuring 30 times 16



## the safe limit. 17



## The other at-risk poor rating pond I want 18



## to speak to is at the Clinch River Plant, which 19



## is located in Virginia's far southwest. This ash 20



## pond has a toxic history and continues to pose a 21



## serious threat to the surrounding watershed. 2226



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## In 1967, one of the two Clinch Plant's 1



## poorly rated ash ponds failed, spilling into the 2



## Clinch River killing hundreds of thousands of 3



## fish, causing degradation to the ecosystem that 4



## remains evident to this day. 5



## These are just two stories of two 6



## facilities in Virginia. Stringent limitations on 7



## power plant effluent could pass many benefits 8



## onto Virginians, including cleaner water, 9



## improved public health, reduced environmental 10



## degradation, and job creation with minimal cost 11



## to ratepayers. 12



## The Wise Energy Coalition applauds the 13



## EPA for taking these common-sense steps to limit 14



## toxic wastewater discharges from power plant 15



## effluent. 16



## Thank you very much for the opportunity 17



## to comment. 18



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 19



## Angelique Giraud. 20



## MS. GIRAUD: Hello. I am Angelique 21



## Giraud. I am the energy community organizer for 2227



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Clean Water Action in Florida. Thank you for the 1



## chance to comment to the EPA concerning the 2



## proposed Effluent Limitation Guidelines and 3



## Standards for the Steam Electric Power Generating 4



## Point Source Category. 5



## Clean Water Action is a national 6



## environmental organization. Our work in Florida 7



## is focused on protecting the state's drinking 8



## water resources and public health. I understand 9



## that the pretreatment standards which EPA has 10



## proposed are basically identical to the proposal 11



## for plants discharging right to our waterways. 12



## Both sets of standards need to be as stringent as 13



## possible. EPA should be setting zero discharge 14



## standards and requiring rigorous treatment of 15



## toxic heavy metals in any remaining waste. 16



## I was born and raised in Florida. I grew 17



## up enjoying the natural beauty of Florida's 18



## waters and later became involved in my personal 19



## life in education with protecting our state's 20



## lifeblood. Florida represents a perfect example 21



## of why the most stringent regulations for power 2228



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## plant water pollution are needed. Our water 1



## supply is vulnerable. We use a lot of energy. 2



## State regulations are weak. Enforcement is rare, 3



## and pollution is rampant. 4



## Florida's water supply is uniquely 5



## vulnerable to toxic contamination. Our high 6



## water table, sandy soils, and porous limestone 7



## bedrock allow surface waters to freely flow down 8



## to our aquifer, which provides drinking water for 9



## millions of people. 10



## Florida generates the third-most energy 11



## in the U.S. Our economy is largely tourism-based 12



## with a record-breaking 89.3 million visits last 13



## year and relies on an abundance of fresh clean 14



## water that is currently threatened by toxic power 15



## plant pollution. 16



## The Florida Department of Environmental 17



## Protection regulates solid waste and wastewater 18



## management of each coal power plant on a 19



## case-by-case basis, creating dangerous 20



## inconsistencies in safety standards. 21



## I will provide six facts that highlight 2229



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the real power plant water pollution problems we 1



## are facing in the Sunshine State. First off, in 2



## 2011, our 15 coal-fired power plants reported 5.3 3



## million pounds of toxic releases to landfills, 4



## surface impoundments, and directly to surface 5



## waters. Of that, there were 2,200 pounds of 6



## mercury. 7



## Second, there is 78 fish consumption 8



## advisories for mercury in water bodies 9



## surrounding the state's coal-fired power plants. 10



## Third, five coal-fired power plants have 11



## no limits on discharges of any heavy metals, and 12



## no plant in Florida has permit limits on all of 13



## the toxic metals of concern. 14



## The St. Johns River Power Park in Duval 15



## County is operating with an expired NPDES permit, 16



## and the Seminole Plant in Putnam discharges 17



## wastewater into Rice Creek, which is impaired 18



## with cadmium, iron, lead, nickel, and silver. 19



## And the Big Bend Power Plant, Hillsborough 20



## County, is one of the worst offenders. In 2011 21



## alone, the plant reported discharging over 1,200 2230



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## pounds of selenium into the Big Bend Bayou. 1



## Florida's precious water supplies are 2



## facing serious threat of toxic contamination from 3



## our coal-fired power plants. The health of our 4



## local communities is directly affected by this 5



## out-of-control hazardous waste stream. By 6



## alleviating industries of the responsibility of 7



## properly treating toxic waste, the government is 8



## passing those costs on the public and taxpayers 9



## in the form of increased health care cost, 10



## pollution cleanup cost, and Florida's future 11



## economic livelihood. I would like my future 12



## children and grandchildren to have the chance to 13



## enjoy the pleasures of Florida's natural habitat, 14



## but I don't believe that will be possible without 15



## cutting back on coal-fired power plant water 16



## pollution with the most stringent regulations 17



## possible. 18



## If the technology exists to eliminate 19



## irreparable damage to our only home, the only 20



## question should be, “When can we start?” 21



## While these coal plant water pollution 2231



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## standards will address pollution on the coal 1



## plant wastewater, there are many other types of 2



## water pollution we still need to address, 3



## including coal ash. We encourage you to move 4



## forward on those rules as well as soon as 5



## possible. 6



## Thank you very much. 7



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 8



## Is Julia Wynn here? 9



## [No audible response.] 10



## MR. STRASSLER: Okay. We will move on to 11



## Marc Yaggi. 12



## MR. YAGGI: Good afternoon. Thank you 13



## for the opportunity to submit testimony today. 14



## My name is Marc Yaggi, and I am the 15



## executive director of Waterkeeper Alliance. 16



## Waterkeeper Alliance comprises more than 200 17



## waterkeeper organizations that patrol and protect 18



## more than 1.5 million square miles of watersheds 19



## on six continents. 20



## Coal mining, coal transportation, coal 21



## combustion, and then finally the disposal of coal 2232



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## ash all create water pollution, poisoning our 1



## most precious resource along with the people and 2



## wildlife that depend on it. 3



## Of particular concern to Waterkeeper 4



## Alliance is the toxic water discharges associated 5



## with coal combustion, waste storage, and 6



## disposal. 7



## Of all the coal-fired power plants in the 8



## country, 182 of them discharge their pollution 9



## into watersheds of 49 of our member waterkeeper 10



## organizations. Every second of every day, the 11



## wastewater outfalls at these power plants 12



## constantly pours staggering amounts of toxic 13



## heavy metals into our rivers, lakes, and streams, 14



## often without any limits or even monitoring 15



## requirements. 16



## Without adequate federal limits on toxic 17



## discharges from coal-fired power plants, it is 18



## these Waterkeeper organizations, rather than 19



## government regulators, who often bear the burden 20



## of safeguarding their waterways in their 21



## communities by monitoring the effects of this 2233



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## dangerous pollution. 1



## These public advocates document 2



## pollution, warn the public of hazardous water 3



## quality conditions, and when necessary bring 4



## enforcement actions. All too often, however, 5



## this work is hampered by industry-friendly state 6



## regulators and, importantly, the lack of 7



## enforceable federal limits on toxic discharges. 8



## For example, on the Black Warrior River 9



## in Alabama, the Miller generating station 10



## constantly discharges coal ash refuge and 11



## scrubber sludge into a huge waste lagoon. Waste 12



## from the Miller ash pond flows right into 13



## Bankhead Lake, a public drinking water source for 14



## the City of Birmingham and surrounding areas and 15



## a popular boating and fishing destination. 16



## In 2010, the Miller plant generated more 17



## than 5 million pounds of toxic waste, making it 18



## the biggest ash polluter in the country that 19



## year. 20



## Despite this pollution, the State of 21



## Alabama does not require monitoring for or limit 2234



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the discharges of poisons like arsenic, mercury, 1



## and lead from the Miller plant. Even though 2



## Alabama doesn't know exactly what is being 3



## discharged from the plant, the pollution from 4



## this power plant is clearly having an impact. 5



## Some of those impacts are easy to see. 6



## The rocks in the river below the discharge are 7



## blanketed with a hard white gunk that cements the 8



## rocks together. Other impacts like toxic metals 9



## that are likely building up in the river system 10



## are harder to see but no less real. 11



## This is not unique. In North Carolina, 12



## not far up the Cape Fear River from the coastal 13



## estuaries that provide habitat for precious 14



## species like the Atlantic Green Sea turtle, the 15



## Duke Energy L.V. Sutton Power Plant dumps toxic 16



## waste into the river. With no treatment other 17



## than settling, the ash water flows directly from 18



## unlined ash ponds into Sutton Lake where scores 19



## of people make use of a public boat launch near 20



## the plant to fish and recreate. North Carolina, 21



## however, imposes no limits on the concentration 2235



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of metals that Sutton may discharge, and 1



## according to the plant's own records, it 2



## discharged 603 pounds of arsenic in 2012 along 3



## with 526 pounds of selenium. 4



## Finally, stringent new air pollution 5



## controls have the unfortunate side effect of 6



## increasing the volume of toxic water pollution 7



## from power plants. At the Asheville Steam Plant 8



## in western North Carolina, the plant's water 9



## pollution has significantly worsened since wet 10



## scrubbers were added. Duke University 11



## researchers compared the pollutant loads before 12



## and after the scrubbers were installed and found 13



## dramatic increases in the amounts of pollutants 14



## discharged. Recent samples showed arsenic at 15



## levels four times higher than the EPA's drinking 16



## water standard and selenium at 17 times higher 17



## than the standard for aquatic life. 18



## This goes on and on, but I would conclude 19



## by saying that Options 4 or 5 of the proposed 20



## effluent guidelines are necessary to prevent the 21



## continuing poisoning of our waters. Anything 2236



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## less is unacceptable. 1



## Thank you for the opportunity to comment. 2



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 3



## Alexis Segal? 4



## MS. SEGAL: Good afternoon. My name is 5



## Alexis Segal, and I am here on behalf of my home 6



## state of Florida and our precious and essential 7



## waterways. I appreciate the opportunity to speak 8



## here today. 9



## In my capacity as the Biscayne Bay 10



## Waterkeeper in Miami, Florida, it is my honor to 11



## advocate for swimmable, fishable, and drinkable 12



## water, like the over-200 Waterkeeper Alliance 13



## affiliate organizations worldwide, not just 14



## because it is our right to enjoy and protect the 15



## common resources bestowed to us by our planet, 16



## but as Floridians, clean water is the life blood 17



## of our economy, our lifestyle, and health and 18



## prosperity of our communities, now and for 19



## generations to come. 20



## In Florida, we have 15 active coal-fired 21



## power plants. We drink from, fish, and swim in 2237



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the same waters where toxic pollutants are 1



## discharged, becoming annoyingly susceptible to 2



## ingesting toxins like arsenic, mercury, and lead. 3



## If you come on vacation to Florida to fish or 4



## kayak or swim, you may be too. 5



## But it does not have to be this way. 6



## Just like it does with many other industries, the 7



## EPA should require these power plants to adopt 8



## the best available technology, which already 9



## exists and is in use at some plants, to reduce 10



## the most amount of pollution. Because what is at 11



## stake, our water, it is critical to our survival, 12



## our health, and our well-being. 13



## There is no reason for power plants to 14



## continue dumping arsenic, lead, selenium, 15



## mercury, and many other toxic pollutants into our 16



## water. These are the very same toxins that EPA 17



## already regulates in other forms. 18



## Aside from tourism and commercial 19



## recreation on subsistence fishing economies 20



## depending on our water, what is perhaps most 21



## scary is the threat these coal plant discharges 2238



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## place on our drinking water. In Florida, most of 1



## the fresh water we use comes from relatively 2



## shallow aquifers stored in porous rocks such as 3



## limestone and sandstone that serves as Florida's 4



## foundation layer and holds approximately 90 5



## percent of our drinking water for our people, our 6



## agriculture, and our commerce that depend on this 7



## water being healthy, replenished, and potable. 8



## Once water supplies are compromised by 9



## unregulated discharges from coal-fired power 10



## plants, there is no turning back, and in some 11



## instances, they already are. But EPA can help us 12



## change that. 13



## Our drinking water in Florida already 14



## faces massive threats. Contamination from 15



## coal-fired power plants, pretreated or otherwise, 16



## does not have to be one of them, yet it remains. 17



## In addition, I'd like to mention in 2011 alone, 18



## 17 billion pounds of coal ash was generated, and 19



## 74 coal ash landfills and ponds were 20



## self-reported. Many of these landfills and ponds 21



## remain unlined and in some cases have shown to 2239



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## have been leaching extremely harmful pollutions 1



## into our too-precious water and quite-limited 2



## drinking water for years, even decades. 3



## In addition, the State of Florida just 4



## passed Senate Bill 682 allowing coal ash for 5



## reuse in things like cement and asphalt, roofing 6



## materials, and on-the-ground agricultural use. 7



## Instances of groundwater contamination in 8



## dangerous proximity to protected wetlands have 9



## already been documented. Arsenic levels on and 10



## off site of the power plants have been documented 11



## at very high levels as well. 12



## Now more than ever, we as Floridians, we 13



## as Americans, we as human beings need to act to 14



## safeguard our limited resources not just for our 15



## survival, but for the generations after us who 16



## will inherit our decisions. EPA can, and 17



## therefore should, take this step and implement 18



## the most stringent standards possible to bring us 19



## closer to safeguarding our waterways. 20



## Thank you for your time. 21



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 2240



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Cheryl Nenn. 1



## MS. NENN: Hi. My name is Cheryl Nenn, 2



## and I am the Milwaukee Riverkeeper and a member 3



## of Waterkeeper Alliance. We appreciate the 4



## opportunity to comment today on the pretreatment 5



## standards and the proposed steam electric rule. 6



## The proposed power plant water pollution 7



## standards will set national limits to limit 8



## toxics and wastewater from coal-burning plants. 9



## These toxins include millions of pounds of toxic 10



## metals like arsenic, selenium, mercury, and lead 11



## that are dumped into our waterways, these same 12



## waterways that are really the life blood of our 13



## communities. 14



## In Wisconsin, water-based tourism is an 15



## 8- to $12-billion annual industry, so clean water 16



## is very important to us. 17



## Exposure to these dangerous chemicals can 18



## lead to birth defects, cancer, and even death. 19



## While the EPA has called this hearing 20



## specifically on the pretreatment part of the 21



## proposed water pollution standards, we feel it's 2241



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## important that you hear from the public on the 1



## rule as a whole because so many of us are 2



## affected by coal waste in our local rivers, 3



## lakes, and streams. 4



## In Milwaukee, we have a power plant 5



## called We Energies Valley Power Plant. This is a 6



## lovely picture of it. It's one of the oldest 7



## coal-fired electric power plants in the country 8



## and creates steam and electric for most of 9



## downtown Milwaukee. The plant finally received a 10



## new wastewater permit just late last year in 11



## 2012. Their previous permit had been expired for 12



## 20 years, was last issued in 1987, and the 13



## Valley's permit, like these Proposed Rules that 14



## I'm understanding, are also -- have been expired 15



## for 3 years, still allows for antiquated 16



## technology that's not really in compliance with 17



## new laws, best management practices, or science. 18



## These proposed water pollution standards 19



## for steam power plants are long overdue, and we 20



## feel the standard should be finalized in the 21



## strongest form possible to ensure that coal 2242



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## plants eliminate their most toxic discharges and 1



## finally use available controlled technology to 2



## treat heavy metals. We support EPA in 3



## promulgating these standards, and I give you 4



## kudos for finally tackling this major source of 5



## water pollution. 6



## As others have mentioned, we're very 7



## concerned that toxic wastewater discharge from 8



## power plants is anticipated to actually increase. 9



## I think EPA's own numbers are that the wastewater 10



## stream could increase by 28 percent in the next 11



## 15 years as more pollutants are scrubbed out of 12



## the air and essentially ending up in the water 13



## waste stream and discharged into our waterways, 14



## either directly or after being filtered through a 15



## public treatment facility first. 16



## Our rivers in Milwaukee are already 17



## really suffering from a history of degradation 18



## due to industry and urbanization combined with 19



## habitat alteration. The Valley Power Plant is 20



## also located within our Milwaukee estuary federal 21



## area of concern, which has been identified by EPA 2243



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## as part of the Great Lakes Legacy Act. 1



## DNR in Wisconsin, EPA, and many NGOs have 2



## been investing major resources into improving the 3



## quality of the estuary and getting it taken off 4



## of the Area of Concern list, as well as adjusting 5



## many beneficial use impairments, which include 6



## water quality and impairment sufficient in 7



## aquatic life. 8



## Our estuary is currently listed on the 9



## impaired list for PCBs, E. coli, phosphorous, and 10



## unspecified metals. Given these challenges, it's 11



## especially important that EPA set zero discharge 12



## for heavy metals and other pollutants and require 13



## rigorous treatment of heavy metals and any 14



## remaining waste. 15



## Valley Power Plant's 2012 permit, which 16



## was just issued, includes very lax monitoring 17



## requirements in general for mercury, selenium, 18



## and cyanide. They included no requirement for 19



## copper, even though there was strong indication 20



## that it was coming in the waste stream, and there 21



## is also very limited effluent limitations put 2244



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## into that permit, which we just got in November. 1



## So we are very supportive and hopeful that these 2



## proposed effluent limits could address this issue 3



## in the future. 4



## The Valley Power Plant is a very 5



## significant factor in degradation of our water 6



## quality and wildlife habitat in general, and 7



## these federal rules would help reduce pollution 8



## in our rivers and also downstream waterways, such 9



## as Lake Michigan, which provide drinking water 10



## for over 40 million people, both Canadians and 11



## Americans. And additionally, these limits would 12



## also help us protect aquatic life, which is also 13



## given very short shrift in many of our permits. 14



## The good news is that there's many 15



## stakeholder groups, including Milwaukee 16



## Riverkeeper and others, that are working hard to 17



## improve the conditions in our urban rivers and to 18



## get us back on a path to achieving water quality 19



## standards in meeting fishable, swimmable rivers. 20



## So, in conclusion, we hope that EPA will 21



## select the strongest effluent limitations 2245



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## possible to limit the toxics in our waterways and 1



## ensure our water is safe to drink and our fish 2



## are safe to eat. Thank you. 3



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 4



## Fred Tutman. 5



## MR. TUTMAN: My name is Fred Tutman. My 6



## title is Patuxent Riverkeeper, a post I've held 7



## for about 10 years, with some 20 years before 8



## that as a community activist. 9



## I have one of the largest coal-burning 10



## power plants in my state, located in my 11



## watershed, not too far from here on the Patuxent. 12



## It's called the Chalk Point Generating Station. 13



## Its discharges to my waterways are well 14



## documented as being generally way beyond its 15



## permitted limits, fairly egregious levels of 16



## toxic hazards, both to the surface and 17



## groundwaters of the communities that I serve, and 18



## I have a deep and closely personal relationship 19



## with the people and the communities that I serve. 20



## I am concerned about the future of their water, 21



## and I am concerned about their futures, because 2246



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## these are very intertwined values. 1



## My organization is currently involved in 2



## enforcement action to hold this plant operator 3



## accountable for its exceedances of effluent 4



## limits into the river by as much as 40 times its 5



## permitted limits. 6



## Earlier this year, we also helped forge a 7



## consent decree by requiring the plant operators 8



## to remediate and overhaul their coal waste 9



## disposal site, located in nearby Brandywine. 10



## There, the company's own records reveal they have 11



## discharged heavy metals into the ground at nearly 12



## 50 times the federal drinking water standards. 13



## Here, we're talking about cadmium, selenium, 14



## arsenic, and other very toxic contaminants that 15



## can have very serious and permanent health 16



## implications for the surrounding neighbors who 17



## rely on their water supply. 18



## Many of these folks have never been told 19



## about the risks from the neighboring industrial 20



## facility that cheerfully donates money to buy 21



## band uniforms at local high schools and always 2247



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## sets up environment exhibits at local Earth Day 1



## festivals. So I assure you that toxic burdens 2



## suffered by the predominant rural and 3



## African-American neighbors to this facility is a 4



## legacy that was completely foreseeable by the 5



## plant operators and an entire industry that has 6



## exploited a culture of weak enforcement and 7



## insufficient federal rulemaking that allows them 8



## to make profits at the expense of the health and 9



## safety of an ill-informed public. 10



## And I wish I could tell you that Chalk 11



## Point and Brandywine are anomalies, but they're 12



## not. These occurrences are not flukes. I've got 13



## way too much coal waste in my water supply 14



## throughout my river from other sources. 15



## Chalk Point was also, I should add, the 16



## scene of what many consider in Maryland to be the 17



## worst manmade ecological catastrophe in the 18



## state's history in 2000, year 2000. 12,000 19



## gallons of bunker oil came pouring out of one of 20



## their ruptured pipelines into the heart of my 21



## river's prime shellfish areas. This happened the 2248



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## day before a hurricane when the poisons were then 1



## blown downriver and destroyed the livelihoods of 2



## many people who will never get those things back. 3



## My point being that an industrial facility of 4



## this sort has many on-record permanent 5



## consequences for the inhabitants, not like a 6



## strip mall or a housing development. These are 7



## real communities, real livelihoods, and real 8



## consequences that cannot be ignored. 9



## So the consequences of weak or inadequate 10



## regulations have real consequences for real 11



## Americans, and the solution has to be really 12



## good, stringent, enforceable standards and 13



## regulations to protect the public from the known 14



## hazards from this coal-burning industry. 15



## So the latest pretreatment standards that 16



## EPA has proposed for wastewater must be stringent 17



## because we already know from bitter experience 18



## the terrible and unfair consequences for 19



## communities of having less stringent rules, of 20



## having rules that do not achieve the ends for 21



## which they are created, of having rules that 2249



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## ultimately fall short of protecting the health 1



## and safety of the general public and most 2



## particularly of the communities closest to these 3



## toxic generators. How many communities must 4



## suffer due to the deferral of strict and 5



## stringent and prudent rules necessary to protect 6



## the public from these ravages, to curtail the 7



## brutal injustices created by these waste streams? 8



## And, you know, these are never found near 9



## wealthy communities. They tend to be those 10



## communities that are least able to fight back, 11



## who don't have the political power. So by 12



## promulgating zero waste effluent requirements for 13



## coal plants, you and we can create justice for 14



## many communities across this land that have been 15



## denied it for far too long, communities that have 16



## every right to expect relief from the awful 17



## legacy of dirty coal and dirty water. The time 18



## is now, and if not now, when? 19



## Thank you for your time and your 20



## consideration. 21



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 2250



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Donna Lisenby. 1



## MS. LISENBY: Thank you very much for 2



## allowing me to testify today. I am the Watauga 3



## Riverkeeper from Boone, North Carolina, and I am 4



## also the coal campaign coordinator for 5



## Waterkeeper Alliance. 6



## I came here today all the way from North 7



## Carolina. It took me 5 hours of flying time to 8



## get here. It was a pain in the tuchus to get 9



## here for me. 10



## The reason I took all that time to come 11



## here is because this is important, really 12



## important for you all to get this right, and even 13



## though the scope of this hearing has been 14



## unfortunately limited to just the small number of 15



## coal-fired power plants that discharge into 16



## publicly owned treatment works, I want to speak 17



## more broadly because the options you all have 18



## proposed apply to the majority of coal-fired 19



## power plants in our country that discharge 20



## directly to our waterways. 21



## I came here to tell you three things. 2251



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The most important thing I want you to know, 1



## unequivocally and without any doubt, is 2



## coal-fired power plants are polluting our 3



## waterways in America with millions of gallons of 4



## toxic heavy metals. 5



## This is a picture of heavy metals, 6



## arsenic, and other pollutants that are flowing 7



## into the Cane Creek, a tributary of the Tennessee 8



## River, from the Colbert coal-fired power plant in 9



## Alabama. Looks like Gatorade, doesn't it? Okay. 10



## The Tennessee River provides drinking 11



## water to millions of people. Now, the 12



## Waterkeepers you see here today and many other 13



## ones who could not be here today, as well as 14



## Waterkeeper Alliance, have tested leaking 15



## discharges from coal-fired power plant waste 16



## ponds and from their discharges directly from the 17



## Asheville, North Carolina, plant, the Colbert 18



## plant in Alabama, the Scholz plant in Florida, 19



## the Harllee Branch plant in Georgia, the Grainger 20



## plant in South Carolina, the Kingston plant in 21



## Tennessee, the Chalk Point plant in Maryland, the 2252



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Valley Power plant in Wisconsin, the Sutton power 1



## plant in North Carolina, the Gaston power plant 2



## in Alabama, the Allen power plant in North 3



## Carolina, the Gadsden power plant also in 4



## Alabama. All of these power plants are polluting 5



## our waterways. Some of them are also polluting 6



## groundwater. 7



## So I am standing here today with you as a 8



## person who has gone out with these Waterkeepers, 9



## done this testing. I am not giving you testimony 10



## that is in the abstract. I am giving you 11



## testimony today that is based on my real-life 12



## work on the ground at these coal-fired power 13



## plants sampling their toxic heavy metals that are 14



## going into our drinking water and the places 15



## where our families swim every day. 16



## And I want to make this point to you. It 17



## is criminal to me that we have power plants in 18



## this country whose sole means of treatment is to 19



## dump their scrubber sludge, their coal ash waste, 20



## and their other processed water in a hole in the 21



## ground. That is not best available technology. 2253



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## That is 1950s old-school, no treatment, 1



## ridiculous kind of way to treat toxic heavy 2



## metals, and it is time for it to stop. It is 3



## time for us to stop poisoning our waterways with 4



## heavy metals. 5



## The second thing I wanted to tell you is 6



## that our waterways need the strongest protections 7



## that you all have proposed. We need the zero 8



## discharge option. It is completely unacceptable 9



## to us that industry was allowed to insert options 10



## that will not eliminate heavy metal pollution 11



## from our waterways. Those options are completely 12



## inappropriate, and the bottom line here is 13



## corporations should not be allowed to pollute our 14



## waterways for profit. Poisoning people and 15



## waterways for profit is not okay. Our country is 16



## better than that. We can do better than holes in 17



## the ground, and we need to implement the most 18



## stringent water pollution technology options you 19



## all have listed. 20



## Thirdly, our communities need strong 21



## limits, the most stringent limits now. Reagan 2254



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## was President the last time you all proposed 1



## rules for coal-fired power plants. It's been 30 2



## years that they've been dumping millions of 3



## gallons of toxic heavy metals into our waterways. 4



## We need you all to get going and get the most 5



## stringent option implemented right away, and we 6



## need that -- it is critical because we're adding 7



## more scrubbers. They are pulling more arsenic, 8



## mercury, lead, NO x 

## , and SO x 

## out of the air, and 9



## those are going into our waterways. 10



## The bottom line here, and I'm going to 11



## conclude by saying, we don't need 5.3 billion 12



## gallons or 5.3 billion pounds of toxic heavy 13



## metal pollution dumped in our waterways. America 14



## is better than that. A hole in the ground is not 15



## the best available technology. We need you all 16



## to get with the program and do what's right. 17



## Now, we just marched a parade of 18



## Waterkeepers from all over the country up here to 19



## the podium to speak. The reason that parade of 20



## Waterkeepers from all these states came here 21



## today, and more are coming up to talk, is because 2255



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## this is critical. It is critical for you all to 1



## get this right because our people, the people we 2



## love, that we interact every day with in our 3



## communities and our families, drink the water 4



## from these waterways, they recreate there, they 5



## swim, and they fish. They deserve clean water. 6



## Thank you. 7



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 8



## May I remind everybody that if we keep 9



## running over on the allotted time, some people at 10



## the end of the list will not get to speak today, 11



## so please think about that for your neighbors. 12



## Next on the list is Sam Perkins. 13



## MR. PERKINS: Good afternoon. My name is 14



## Sam Perkins. I'm the director of Technical 15



## Programs for the Catawba Riverkeeper Foundation 16



## in Charlotte, North Carolina. We cover the 17



## entire Catawba River Basin from the North 18



## Carolina mountains to the South Carolina coastal 19



## plain, stretched with millions of people, as well 20



## as four of your EPA-listed high-hazard coal ash 21



## impoundments, 4 of the 44. 2256



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I have a master's degree in geochemistry 1



## from the University of North Carolina-Chapel 2



## Hill. I'm also a born-and-raised Carolinian, 3



## mostly north and partly south. So I come 4



## representing relatively conservative states where 5



## people firmly believe in their property rights 6



## and respecting those of their neighbors. We 7



## believe that whatever Duke Energy might need to 8



## do on its property to produce energy, fine, but 9



## it needs to stay on their own property, which it 10



## has not. 11



## This year, American Rivers named the 12



## Catawba River the fifth most endangered river and 13



## the most endangered for threats to water quality, 14



## not just quantity, in America because of the 15



## impacts and threats of coal ash discharges, both 16



## permitted and unpermitted. 17



## In a 28-mile span around Charlotte, we 18



## have 3 coal-fired power plants and 445 acres of 19



## coal ash impoundments propped up 80-feet high, 20



## unlined, like mashed potatoes on a plate holding 21



## back a mound of toxic gravy. 2257



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The waterways on which these ponds lie 1



## each serve as the drinking water reservoirs in 2



## locations that have provided drinking water for 3



## centuries. The NPDES permits that limit iron but 4



## not arsenic and selenium with these lakes, 5



## regulation has done nothing to inhibit the impact 6



## of these toxic, steeping, shorefront mounds, but 7



## with these effluent limit guidelines and 8



## specifically Steam Electric Regulatory Options 4 9



## and 5 of the pretreatment standards, as long 10



## overdue as they are, the EPA can start to catch 11



## back up to its original mid-1980s NPDES goal of 12



## eliminating pollutant discharges. We need Option 13



## 4 or 5 at this point, given the decades of 14



## accumulation from unrestricted discharges. 15



## The saying has often been that dilution 16



## is the solution to pollution; however, dilution 17



## is not a one-way street, and matter is neither 18



## created nor destroyed. The sorption of toxics to 19



## particulates, something I studied in grad school, 20



## and the transport and settling of these 21



## particulates have created potent reservoirs for 2258



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## toxic metals in reservoirs that were only meant 1



## to hold water and in particular drinking water, 2



## and in my case on Mountain Island Lake, for more 3



## than 860,000 people. 4



## In my own investigations around coal ash 5



## discharges on the Catawba, I have seen this toxic 6



## accumulation in two areas. On Mountain Island 7



## Lake near the Riverbend Steam Station, bottom 8



## sediment samples have revealed arsenic as high as 9



## 170 milligrams per kilogram, relative to an 10



## upstream sample of 0.76. 11



## This accumulation has also been evident 12



## in the water treatment residuals, also known as 13



## sludge, from the Charlotte drinking water 14



## treatment plant, Franklin, located a few miles 15



## downstream of Riverbend Steam Station. I 16



## compared a decade of sludge data from dozens of 17



## other drinking water and wastewater treatment 18



## plants around North Carolina without coal ash 19



## discharges immediately upstream. Charlotte 20



## consistently has 5 to 10 times the arsenic in its 21



## sludge compared to anywhere else statewide, often 2259



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## approaching the EPA Part 503 limit, sludge 1



## regulatory limit for arsenic, being 75 milligrams 2



## per kilogram, especially during the summer when 3



## warmer weather with more hypoxic bottom water 4



## releases arsenic into the water column. 5



## We have, and have had for years, more 6



## than affordable technology for a zero discharge 7



## standard. The, quote/unquote, treatment 8



## technology that's been utilized until now, 9



## gravity is a 13.8-billion-year-plus-old 10



## technology. 11



## Pretreatment standards for existing 12



## sources, Regulatory Options 4 and 5, and those 13



## alone are the adequate options for beginning to 14



## utilize modern technology to put a true halt on a 15



## problem that has perpetuated for 30 years longer 16



## than it was supposed to. Fall short here and you 17



## will increasingly have a problem in waterways and 18



## with water and wastewater treatment plant sludge 19



## under Part 503. Please stop playing toxic metal 20



## Whac-A-Mole with public waterways and 21



## infrastructures. 2260



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Thank you. 1



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 2



## Patricia Schuba. 3



## MS. SCHUBA: Good afternoon, and thank 4



## you for allowing me to speak today. My name is 5



## Patricia Schuba, and I am from a small town in 6



## the middle of Missouri, and I am the president of 7



## that town's organization. It's a grassroots 8



## group that came together to oppose the dumping of 9



## coal waste in our nation's floodplains and namely 10



## in my town. I also happen to be a consultant for 11



## Citizens Coal Council as a result of that work. 12



## I would like to target my comments today 13



## to address risk assumptions posed in the text of 14



## the Proposed Rule in the reading of Section III, 15



## Background, G, and I'm sure you're familiar with 16



## that section. It talks about the information 17



## collection request conducted by EPA's Office of 18



## Water for the ELG rule that has the potential to 19



## affect the risk assessment for the CCR rule: 20



## "...reliance on the data and analyses 21



## discussed...may have the potential to lower the 2261



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## CCR rule risk assessment results by as much as an 1



## order of magnitude...and could support regulation 2



## of CCR disposal under RCRA Subtitle D...." 3



## I would like to take the time allotted 4



## today to share an example from Missouri, actually 5



## from my town, that supports the conclusion that 6



## more independently collected site-specific data 7



## is needed to draw conclusions about numbers of 8



## human receptors impacted and assumptions made 9



## about water flow in our nation's floodplains and 10



## near ash-way sites because much like the 11



## communities that are impacted, all these sites 12



## are in our floodplains. 13



## I would also like to make the point that 14



## we need both a strong ELG rule and a strong coal 15



## ash rule, for they work hand-in-hand to protect 16



## people and the environment. 17



## The Labadie power plant was constructed 18



## in 1970 when I was 9 years old with one large 19



## 150-acre unlined ash pit dug into the floodplain 20



## sitting in our groundwater. The pond and the 21



## 79-acre pond constructed in 1993 together have 2262



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## been discharging untreated coal and plant 1



## wastewater into the Missouri River at volumes of 2



## 30 million gallons per day under NPDES permits. 3



## The four identified leaks, two of which date at 4



## least back to the permit issued in '92, have 5



## contributed at least 383 million gallons of 6



## untreated wastewater into the floodplain with no 7



## groundwater monitoring. 8



## I would like to submit into the record, 9



## which unfortunately I left at the hotel, but I 10



## will do that digitally, a map that is of the 11



## floodplain and the domestic wells located within 12



## a 3-mile radius of the existing ponds in the 13



## proposed landfill that would accept increasingly 14



## toxic coal ash waste for the next 40 years. The 15



## well data was plotted by Washington University's 16



## Interdisciplinary Environmental Clinic for LEO, 17



## which is our organization, as part of legal 18



## action to attempt to stop the siting of the 19



## landfill in the floodway, not just floodplain, 20



## but the floodway of our floodplain. 21



## I am also providing a landfill drawing 2263



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## included in the permit document submitted by the 1



## utility to the Missouri Department of Natural 2



## Resources, which chose the same private wells and 3



## three springs in the floodplain. LEO contracted 4



## the services of hydrogeologist Charles Norris to 5



## review the piezometer data from the Ameren's 6



## detailed site investigation, and he and others 7



## indicated that water flow was relatively 8



## unpredictable, with water moving seasonally 9



## either toward the river or toward drinking wells 10



## south of the site. 11



## What was amazing was the short time frame 12



## in which water could change directions and likely 13



## move toxins long distances. The subsequent 14



## review of the proposed groundwater monitoring 15



## program at the proposed landfill did not reflect 16



## the hydrological complexities. 17



## Unfortunately, I suspect the facts and 18



## decisions made in the Labadie case are not an 19



## exception but the norm. The facts suggest that 20



## we should look closer before permitting said 21



## sites, and regulations absolutely need to be more 2264



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## protective. 1



## In conclusion, LEO and CCC recommend that 2



## EPA not rely on limited industry-supplied data on 3



## hydrogeology at these sites to weaken a strong 4



## subtitle C coal ash rule, coupled with a very 5



## strong ELG rule, to finally protect communities 6



## impacted by coal ash waste and wastewater risk. 7



## Thank you for your time and 8



## consideration, and this is my little niece. She 9



## said to me yesterday morning, "Aunt Pat, I want 10



## to go with you." So someday, she'll be up here 11



## too. Thanks. 12



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 13



## Session B 14



## MR. STRASSLER: Robin Broder. 15



## MS. BRODER: Good afternoon. I'm Robin 16



## Broder, Vice President of Potomac Riverkeeper, 17



## and my comments will be brief. 18



## Today, I urge the EPA to adopt and 19



## finalize the strongest possible options in the 20



## Proposed Effluent Limitation Guidelines and 21



## Standards for the Steam Electric Power Plants. 2265



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The EPA should finalize a strong rule to protect 1



## our rivers, lakes, streams, and communities from 2



## toxic power plant wastewater. 3



## Power plants should be required to adopt 4



## the best available technology, to reduce the most 5



## amount of pollution. The technology exists, and 6



## it's already in use at some plants. There is no 7



## reason for power plants to continue dumping 8



## arsenic, leads, selenium, mercury, and other 9



## toxic pollutants into our waters. 10



## Here on the Potomac River, just a few 11



## miles from Washington, D.C., are two major coal 12



## power plants. Over the past few years, Potomac 13



## Riverkeeper has been involved in getting these 14



## plants to clean up toxic pollution leaching from 15



## their unlined coal ash disposal sites. 16



## Now these plants have installed flue gas 17



## desulfurization scrubbers, and the State of 18



## Maryland mandated that they install waste 19



## treatment systems to control the discharge of 20



## nitrogen. 21



## As you may know, under the Chesapeake Bay 2266



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## TMDL, no new discharges of nutrients are allowed; 1



## however, these plants have had a very difficult 2



## time keeping their nitrogen discharges within 3



## their limits. 4



## Throughout this time while we've been 5



## trying to enforce the nitrogen limits, we have 6



## asked the question: What about the toxic metals? 7



## Recently, a firefighter contacted us 8



## because he and other firefighters had become sick 9



## and gotten rashes after training in the waters 10



## outside of one of these plants. He sent me a 11



## report by the Environmental Integrity Project 12



## that stated the data from the Dickerson Plant 13



## indicated levels of selenium and boron in 14



## post-treatment wastewater was much higher than 15



## federal and state water quality standards. 16



## Naturally, these findings alarmed him. Since 17



## this plant doesn't monitor and report toxic 18



## metals, I wasn't able to give him an answer to 19



## his question of what's in the water. 20



## Now the State of Maryland is drafting new 21



## permits for these plants, and again, I ask what 2267



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## about the toxic metals. The EPA should adopt the 1



## strongest possible rule so that people like this 2



## firefighter, the people who live and work near 3



## the power plants, the people who recreate in the 4



## river, and the millions of people who get their 5



## drinking water from the river like you do not 6



## have to worry and ask what's in the water. 7



## Technologies are available that will 8



## nearly eliminate water pollution from these power 9



## plants. These technologies are cost effective 10



## and should be adopted. 11



## Thank you. 12



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 13



## Diana Dascalu-Joffe. 14



## MS. DASCALU-JOFFE: Good afternoon. My 15



## name is Diana Dascalu-Joffe, and I am senior 16



## general counsel for a regional clean energy 17



## organization called the Chesapeake Climate Action 18



## Network. On behalf of our over-80,000 members, 19



## activists, and volunteers in Maryland and 20



## Virginia, we are here today to urge the EPA to 21



## finalize the strongest regulatory option for 2268



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## power plant wastewater effluent discharges in 1



## order to protect the health of our local 2



## waterways and communities. 3



## CCAN is submitting comments on behalf of 4



## our members that live within 5 miles of many 5



## large coal-fired power plants in Maryland and 6



## Virginia and are negatively impacted by these 7



## facilities on a daily basis. 8



## EPA has repeatedly acknowledged that the 9



## existing effluent guidelines that are over 30 10



## years have not kept pace with developments in the 11



## industry and have utterly failed to protect local 12



## waterways from the worst pollutants, such as 13



## toxic metals that are discharging from these 14



## facilities. 15



## Maryland has seven active coal-fired 16



## power plants, and none of them have permits which 17



## limit dumping of any toxic metal, including 18



## arsenic, boron, cadmium, mercury, and lead. At 19



## least four of these plants have discharges 20



## contaminated by metalating coal ash or dangerous 21



## smokestack scrubber sludge. All that pollution 2269



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## has serious consequences. At least two plants in 1



## Maryland are dumping their waste directly into 2



## water bodies, which have been formerly designated 3



## as having impaired water quality, including the 4



## Middle River, the Potomac River, and Browns 5



## Creek. The Potomac River alone is impaired 6



## because of cadmium and nickel contamination. 7



## In Virginia, Virginia has 16 active 8



## coal-fired power plants, and none of them have 9



## permits which limit dumping of any toxic metal 10



## either. At least seven of these power plants 11



## have discharges contaminated by metalating coal 12



## ash or the dangerous smokestack scrubber sludge. 13



## Eight plants are dumping their waste into water 14



## bodies which have been formerly designated as 15



## having impaired water quality in Virginia, 16



## including the James and York Rivers. 17



## To use an example of how these outdated 18



## guidelines have failed in the real world, I will 19



## provide a quick summary of a National Pollution 20



## Discharge Elimination System permit, a NPDES 21



## renewal permit challenge that our organization 2270



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## brought against a NPDES permit issued from one of 1



## Maryland's oldest and dirtiest power plants, the 2



## R. Paul Smith Power Plant in Williamsport, 3



## Maryland, which has been retired since the case 4



## was brought. 5



## This power plant dated back to the 6



## Eisenhower administration and was discharging 7



## effluent from on-site bottom ash and fly ash 8



## ponds directly into the Upper Potomac River, 9



## which contained the following pollutants in this 10



## wastewater stream: arsenic, radium, selenium, 11



## sulfate, boron, zinc, barium, mercury, and 12



## nickel, just to name a few. 13



## The state issued a NPDES renewal permit 14



## in the winter of 2009 for this power plant and 15



## set no technology-based effluent limitations for 16



## any of these toxic metals and sometimes 17



## radioactive pollutants that I just listed. In 18



## fact, the only limits in the permit were for 19



## total suspended solids, oil and grease, nitrogen, 20



## phosphorous, and pH. That's it. 21



## We challenged this permit in state court 2271



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## under the judicial review provision of the Clean 1



## Water Act and lost because of the very reason we 2



## are here today. The state court judge in that 3



## case deferred to the judgment of the Maryland 4



## Department of the Environment based on EPA's 5



## Effluent Limitation Guidelines, which dated back 6



## to the 1980s. 7



## Our intention in that case was to protect 8



## the local water quality and citizens' health from 9



## dangerous water pollution coming from that very 10



## old power plant. Many of our members swim, fish, 11



## boat, and recreate just a few hundred feet from 12



## that power plant's outfall pipes and had no idea 13



## that they were encountering dangerous toxins 14



## every time they use that waterway. 15



## These rules have real-world consequences 16



## for people living near these plants. They are 17



## not just regulatory hurdles that industry must 18



## jump through. 19



## State regulatory agencies have been 20



## hiding behind these outdated guidelines when 21



## issuing water pollution permits for these massive 2272



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## industrial facilities for far too long. That is 1



## why we are here today. We urge EPA to revise the 2



## Effluent Limitation Guidelines for power plants 3



## and make them as strong as possible. 4



## Thank you for the opportunity to testify. 5



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 6



## Chris Espinosa? 7



## [No audible response.] 8



## MR. STRASSLER: Mr. Espinosa? No? 9



## ATTENDEE: He's outside. 10



## MR. STRASSLER: Would he like to come in 11



## and testify? Because now is the time. 12



## We will call the next person. That will 13



## be Rae Schnapp. 14



## MS. SCHNAPP: Good afternoon. My name is 15



## Rae Schnapp. I am the Wabash Riverkeeper and 16



## proud to be a member of the Waterkeeper Alliance. 17



## I'm also speaking today on behalf of the Citizens 18



## Coal Council. 19



## Among the Waterkeeper Alliance 20



## organizations, I have the dubious distinction of 21



## having more power plants in my watershed than any 2273



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## other Riverkeeper. The Wabash River forms the 1



## border between Indiana and Illinois and is listed 2



## as impaired for numerous heavy metals, and its 3



## impairments are localized in many cases. 4



## Most of our power plants are old and 5



## should have been retired years ago. They have 6



## gone beyond their design life, and most of our 7



## power plants have coal ash ponds on site that 8



## discharge toxic metals such as arsenic, cadmium, 9



## boron, selenium, and they are much more soluble 10



## and much more concentrated than they are in the 11



## coal itself. 12



## Today's hearing addresses only a very 13



## small subset of power plants because most do not 14



## discharge to publicly owned treatment works, so 15



## we really want to encourage EPA to adopt rules 16



## that would require all power plants to install 17



## zero discharge technology and convert to safer 18



## coal ash handling systems. 19



## In the proposed ELG rules in the Federal 20



## Register, EPA stated that we have new data from a 21



## 2010 information collection request, and that 2274



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that data could be used to determine the extent 1



## to which plumes of groundwater contamination 2



## leaching from these coal ash disposal sites might 3



## be intercepted by surface water bodies. 4



## And the narrative goes on to suggest that 5



## a risk assessment incorporating that information 6



## might reduce the risk assessment by as much as an 7



## order of magnitude, and we are really concerned 8



## about EPA's reliance on this one-sided data set 9



## that was provided by the utility industry. We 10



## think that too much reliance on that data could 11



## lead to adoption of rules that fail to protect 12



## human health and the environment. 13



## So I am going to talk about a couple of 14



## specific examples. First of all, we know that 15



## many of our power plants have coal ash ponds that 16



## discharge large quantities of toxic waste waters 17



## to our rivers, but if rivers are actually 18



## intercepting toxic groundwater plumes as well, 19



## then that would appear to be an illegal 20



## unpermitted discharge to our surface waters, and 21



## we just want to point that out. 2275



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## And then we feel that industry is really 1



## downplaying the risk to human receptors. Most 2



## coal-fired power plants are built next to rivers, 3



## and the shallow alluvial aquifers are really 4



## important as water supplies aquifers. 5



## I've been compiling information about the 6



## location of public water supply wells and private 7



## wells in proximity to power plants, and the 8



## Harding Street Plant in Indianapolis is one 9



## example where there is a public water supply well 10



## field, a well field protection area within a 11



## 3-mile radius of the power plant, as well as more 12



## than 100 private wells within 3 miles. 13



## Further, the industry documents generally 14



## assume that groundwater in these alluvial 15



## aquifers is moving in the same direction as the 16



## adjacent river, when in fact if you look at a 17



## more detailed level, there is often documentation 18



## that groundwater can flow in the opposite 19



## direction, especially if there are significant 20



## water withdrawals in the vicinity that could 21



## change the groundwater flow. And an example of 2276



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that is the Gibson Power Plant where there is 1



## documentation of groundwater contamination in 2



## wells that are upriver from the plant. 3



## So we encourage EPA to conduct regional 4



## hearings to take comments on all aspects of power 5



## plant waste, so we can learn more about the real 6



## impacts of these facilities in this country, and 7



## we hope that EPA will adopt the strongest 8



## protections possible to prevent this pollution. 9



## Thank you. 10



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 11



## Julia Wynn is here now? 12



## MS. WYNN: Thank you for the opportunity 13



## to present my testimony today. My name is Julia 14



## Wynn. I am with the Policy Legislation Team at 15



## Earthjustice, an environmental law organization 16



## dedicated to protecting our natural resources and 17



## defending the right of all people to a healthy 18



## environment. 19



## At the core of our work is a commitment 20



## to safeguarding essential tenets of human health, 21



## including the water we rely on in so many ways to 2277



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## sustain us as human beings, yet toxic pollutants 1



## from coal-fired power plants threaten to rescind 2



## our fundamental right to clean water, clogging 3



## U.S. waterways with hundreds of thousands of 4



## pounds of chemicals that by nature linger in the 5



## environment for years. These contaminants pose 6



## serious health risks to communities and 7



## ecosystems located near power plants. 8



## Studies have shown that exposure to toxic 9



## pollutants can cause cancer as well as serious 10



## damage to the circulatory system, nervous system, 11



## and critical organs, such as kidneys. Aquatic 12



## organisms also suffer debilitating contagion when 13



## these chemicals infiltrate their water, trigging 14



## sweeping fatalities across water ecosystems. 15



## This not only jeopardizes biodiversity, but also 16



## impacts the fishing industry and the health of 17



## consumers. 18



## Earthjustice is concerned that EPA 19



## guidelines limiting toxic effluent inadequately 20



## addressed the adverse effects on public health 21



## and water from coal-fired power plant discharges. 2278



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## EPA must carry out its mandate by ensuring that 1



## all communities are adequately protected from 2



## harmful effluents. The strictest standards for 3



## chemical discharge and the disposal of toxic coal 4



## ash are the only regulations that will ensure 5



## that obligation is met. 6



## Earthjustice urges EPA to implement a 7



## zero discharge policy for coal ash impoundments 8



## and other wastewaters, so that our waterways 9



## remain clean enough to sustain healthy 10



## lifestyles. Communities should not be exposed to 11



## mercury, lead, arsenic, and other toxic 12



## pollutants to any degree in their drinking water. 13



## Wastewater should also be subject to evaporation 14



## treatment to guarantee that dry waste is disposed 15



## of safely in protective landfills. 16



## When public health is at risk, partial 17



## advocacy is not enough. We need EPA to enact the 18



## strongest and most effective measures possible 19



## concerning effluent limitations for steam 20



## electric power plants to ensure that our 21



## environment is livable. Furthermore, finalizing 2279



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the coal ash we proposed over 3 years ago is 1



## another essential EPA action that would progress 2



## our fight against toxic waste and its threat to 3



## health. 4



## Earthjustice urges EPA to implement these 5



## two policies, ensuring effective regulation of 6



## wastewater and solid waste. They are central to 7



## preserving the clean environment that all people 8



## deserve. 9



## Thank you. 10



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 11



## Mary Anne Hitt? 12



## MS. HITT: My name is Mary. Thank you 13



## for the opportunity to speak today. I am the 14



## director of the Beyond Coal Campaign at the 15



## Sierra Club, and on behalf of the Sierra Club and 16



## our 2 million members and supporters, I am here 17



## today to both offer our support for EPA's 18



## proposed Effluent Limitation Guidelines for power 19



## plants and to call on the agency to adopt a 20



## strong final standard that offers the best 21



## possible protection for our health, for the 2280



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## health of our kids, and the health of the 1



## streams, rivers, and lakes that we all love and 2



## upon which so many of us depend. 3



## As a mom who loves to take my little 4



## 3-year-old daughter swimming, fishing, and 5



## boating in the streams and rivers of West 6



## Virginia where I live, I know how much is at 7



## stake. I have worked personally for over a 8



## decade to tackle coal pollution and move America 9



## to clean energy, and that work has taken me from 10



## the coal fields of Appalachia to the halls of 11



## Congress. I thought I had seen it all, but until 12



## we ramped up our work on this standard last year, 13



## I actually had no idea that coal-fired power 14



## plants were the number-one source of toxic water 15



## pollution in the United States, to the tune of 16



## billions of pounds a year of dangerous 17



## pollutants, like mercury, lead, and arsenic, and 18



## I also had no idea that in most states, this 19



## increasingly toxic pollution is being dumped 20



## straight into our streams and rivers and lakes, 21



## essentially without being treated at all, due to 2281



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## sorely outdated national standards that are 31 1



## years old and fail to set any limits on many 2



## dangerous pollutants. 3



## When I tell my friends, my family, even 4



## my coworkers who work closely on these issues 5



## about this, they can't believe it either. I have 6



## explained to them that, yes, the Clean Water Act 7



## is one of our nation's greatest achievements, and 8



## thanks to this historic legislation, our rivers 9



## are no longer catching on fire, and our waterways 10



## are safer and healthier than they were decades 11



## ago. 12



## But 40 years after the act was passed, 13



## the coal industry is still polluting with 14



## impunity thanks to a loophole no other industry 15



## has enjoyed. That is about to change, and how 16



## much it will change, now depends on you. 17



## The Sierra Club is calling on the EPA to 18



## adopt a standard that adequately protects public 19



## health and our waterways. That means a standard 20



## that requires a dry handling of coal ash, moving 21



## away from settling ponds that do essentially 2282



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## nothing to treat the waste, and using best water 1



## treatment technologies for scrubber sludge and 2



## leachate. These are labeled Options 4 and 5 in 3



## the Proposed Rule. 4



## As you know, we have technologies 5



## available today in use at some coal plants, as a 6



## matter of fact, that can treat this pollution at 7



## a modest cost. EPA has every reason to adopt a 8



## strong standard, but I understand you are under 9



## great pressure to adopt a weaker and inadequate 10



## standard. This is no surprise. 11



## As President Obama noted in his climate 12



## speech last month, this is the boilerplate 13



## reaction of polluters anytime improved health and 14



## safety protections are proposed. As the 15



## President also noted, these gloom-and-doom 16



## scenarios never come to pass. Industry adapts 17



## and evolves, and we all enjoy cleaner air and 18



## water. I implore you to stand firm and adopt a 19



## robust standard that will really protect our 20



## water and our kids. After all, it might be quite 21



## a long time before we get another chance. 2283



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I want to close by noting that the many 1



## people who spoke before me have traveled from 2



## across the nation making very long trips to this 3



## hearing today because their health and the health 4



## of their families is threatened by what is a 5



## completely solvable problem. You now have the 6



## solution within your grasp, the opportunity to 7



## clean up the majority of our nation's toxic water 8



## pollution, save lives, prevent our kids from 9



## getting sick, and make sure our water is safe to 10



## drink and our fish are safe to eat, but the 11



## weaker options EPA has proposed won't do the job. 12



## We need the EPA to finalize strong Effluent 13



## Limitation Guidelines for power plants, Options 4 14



## and 5, in the Proposed Rule. Our kids are 15



## counting on you. 16



## Thank you. 17



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 18



## Claudia Friedetzky? 19



## MS. FRIEDETZKY: Good afternoon. My name 20



## is Claudia Friedetzky, and I am the conservation 21



## representation of the Maryland Sierra Club, and I 2284



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## manage our chapter's water protection campaigns, 1



## with a focus on Chesapeake Bay restoration. And 2



## I appreciate the opportunity to testify today. 3



## I am here today as an advocate who has 4



## fought global warming pollution since 2007. In 5



## fact, that's why I entered the field of 6



## environmental advocacy, because I was concerned 7



## about climate change, and since 2011, I've been 8



## working on water pollution in the Chesapeake Bay 9



## for the Maryland Chapter. 10



## Most importantly, though, I am here today 11



## as the mother of two young boys, and on their 12



## behalf, I'm concerned with the impact of fossil 13



## fuel pollution on our atmosphere and our 14



## waterways, two resources that are key for the 15



## future of humanity and the planet. 16



## Thanks in large part of EPA's leadership, 17



## there is now, after decades of neglect and half 18



## measures, a robust process in place to restore 19



## the Chesapeake Bay through a commitment to 20



## reducing nutrient and sediment pollution. 21



## Despite the substantial progress that has been 2285



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## made on nutrient pollution, toxics in our 1



## waterways caused by power plants continues to 2



## degrade and impact our waterways, affecting the 3



## health and safety of American families in the 4



## Chesapeake Bay watershed and across the country. 5



## For example, in the Chesapeake Bay, 70 6



## percent of the bay's tidal water segments are 7



## fully or partially impaired as a result of the 8



## presence of toxic contaminants, according to a 9



## 2010 report issued by the Chesapeake Bay program, 10



## which is the EPA. In some areas of the bay 11



## watershed, fish consumption advisories have been 12



## established as a result of concentrations of 13



## toxic contaminants, including in particular 14



## mercury and lead. Mercury and lead stemming 15



## primarily from power plant pollution and other 16



## sources are potent neurotoxins that accumulate in 17



## the food chain and cause persistent, 18



## developmental, and behavioral problems in 19



## children and lead to a drastically lowering of 20



## IQ. 21



## With the health of children and entire 2286



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## families at stake, EPA must act and put the most 1



## stringent national guidelines in place to reduce 2



## water pollution from power plants. EPA should be 3



## setting a zero discharge standard in requiring 4



## rigorous treatment of the heavy metals in any 5



## remaining waste. 6



## It is critical that EPA stands with 7



## American citizens and holds the line against big 8



## polluters who apparently have managed to weaken 9



## EPA's original proposal already. We cannot allow 10



## big polluters who are content to make a profit on 11



## the backs of families and our natural resources 12



## to continue to use our waterways as dumping 13



## ground for toxic chemicals. 14



## And I just wanted to add one more thing, 15



## which is that the lady from North Carolina has 16



## suggested that we are better than this, this 17



## country is better than this, and I believe that 18



## the hallmark of bad environmental or lacking 19



## environmental regulation, that's a characteristic 20



## of third world countries, not first world 21



## countries that should be a leader in the world to 2287



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## establishing high standards on environmental 1



## protection, so I am asking you to lead on this 2



## issue. 3



## Thank you. 4



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 5



## Craig Segall? 6



## MR. SEGALL: Hi. Craig Segall, staff 7



## attorney with the Sierra Club. Thank you all for 8



## being here today. I know it's been a long road 9



## to get to this point, and it will be a further 10



## long road to get to the end of it. 11



## So I think it's appropriate that the map 12



## above us makes the rivers of the United States 13



## very clear, but aligns most of the state and 14



## national boundaries, remain the core of the 15



## country. I think one thing we've heard today is 16



## how deeply affected communities across the 17



## country have been by the 31 years of regulatory 18



## failure that EPA is seeking to correct. 19



## It makes me think linking the dark line 20



## of the Ohio up there. I'm thinking of all the 21



## plants that pour into it, of a time I spent some 2288



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## years ago in a former bourbon warehouse, which 1



## now holds the Kentucky Department of the 2



## Environment -- it's a good environment for 3



## bourbon and less so for people -- deposing them 4



## as to why the Trimble Power Plant and LG&E 5



## facility, just upstream of Louisville wastewater 6



## intakes, has been allowed to discharge huge 7



## amounts of coal-contaminated water from its ash 8



## ponds, both from leaks and through permits. 9



## And two lines stayed with me. The first 10



## was asking a treatment engineer there, "Well, 11



## shouldn't you clean this up?" and he said, "Well, 12



## we could, but we won't know where to start. 13



## They're all leaking," and asking the permit 14



## writer, "Well, didn't EPA say in the Hanlon memo, 15



## that you have a best professional judgment 16



## allegation to take care of this, despite the 17



## absence of national standards?" and having not 18



## just the permit writer, but the administrative 19



## law judge tell me, "EPA can say whatever it likes 20



## in guidance. We just aren't going to do that, 21



## and Kentucky hasn't." 2289



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I remember thinking at the time, "Well, 1



## that's Kentucky. Surely, it's not a national 2



## problem," but I'm here to tell you now that 3



## having reviewed the water discharge permits for 4



## every coal power plant in the country, it is a 5



## national problem. No one has done this 6



## consistently and well. Most states haven't done 7



## it at all, and many, many states don't even 8



## provide consistent monitoring. 9



## And it's become clear that neither the 10



## Clean Water Act's best professional judgment 11



## mandate nor EPA's helpful comments nor permit 12



## objectives if they ever come are sufficient. We 13



## need our national standards, and we need them now 14



## in this narrow window where scrubbers are being 15



## installed as a result of their rules. It's, I 16



## think, really generational opportunity to address 17



## this problem, that if it fails, leaves the 18



## protection of our nation's waterways to the legal 19



## tenacity of citizens groups, and that although 20



## the option was never the intent of Congress, it 21



## is tragic that folks who really should be able to 2290



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## spend their lives, just having their lives -- are 1



## forced to devote their time and treasure to 2



## securing basic human rights, rights that EPA and 3



## government should be securing for them. It is 4



## personally and professionally offensive that we 5



## have to do this work, and it's time for that to 6



## change. 7



## For that reason, it's so encouraging to 8



## see the strong options in this rule and so 9



## utterly discouraging to see what has been forced 10



## upon EPA by OMB. The red line for this rule 11



## demonstrates OMB bureaucrats, I think, acting at 12



## the behest of industry and other less sensitive 13



## issues, reversing EPA's scientific conclusions. 14



## There's lines in EPA's version of this 15



## rule that talk about how utterly inadequate the 16



## holes in the ground, as nonetheless we talked 17



## about, are for treatment. OMB rewrote that to 18



## suggest those holes in the ground could be just 19



## fine. We find that profoundly troubling. This 20



## administration's job and its commitment to the 21



## public is to protect public health, protect its 2291



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## environment. It's time to walk away from those 1



## options. 2



## I will note as a lawyer, I don't believe 3



## those options written not by EPA's experts, but 4



## by OMB bureaucrats -- are entitled to any form of 5



## Chevron or other administrative deference since 6



## they were not constructed by the agency 7



## scientific staff in response to political 8



## pressure. 9



## We can do better than this. I think, 10



## ultimately, our charge is to avoid the 11



## unnecessary misery of communities who must suffer 12



## from this systematic negligence who must devote 13



## their time to fighting to get what government 14



## should be guaranteeing them and what Congress 15



## guaranteed in the Clean Water Act. We deeply 16



## appreciate your efforts to move us forward, and 17



## we trust that this remaining road will lead us to 18



## a good place. 19



## Thank you. 20



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 21



## Melinda Pierce? 2292



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MS. PIERCE: Good afternoon. My name is 1



## Melinda Pierce. I am the deputy director of 2



## Federal Policy for the Sierra Club. Thank you 3



## truly for what you do, and thank you for the 4



## opportunity to provide public comment. 5



## I am delighted to be here and hear the 6



## strong, clear, impassioned advocacy for strong 7



## Effluent Limitation Guidelines to clean up toxic 8



## wastewater pollution from power plants. 9



## Put very simply, water is one of our 10



## nation's most precious resources. Coal-fired 11



## power plants are the number-one source of toxic 12



## water pollution discharged into our lakes and 13



## rivers and streams. With the advent of stronger 14



## air pollution controls, much of the dangerous 15



## toxic metals and other poisons that were 16



## previously released into the air we breathe are 17



## now being controlled and captured, but what has 18



## been a win for our air has created new problems 19



## for our waters. 20



## Because of the adoption of modern control 21



## technologies for air pollution, the quantity and 2293



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the concentration of toxic chemicals being 1



## controlled and captured in our wastewater streams 2



## has greatly increased and is now being directly 3



## discharged into our public waterways across the 4



## nation. 5



## These dangerous chemicals, toxic metals, 6



## and known carcinogens, such as lead, arsenic, 7



## mercury, selenium, and cadmium, present a clear 8



## public threat to our public health. 9



## For too long, we have failed to address 10



## adequately this pervasive problem. It's time to 11



## tackle this pollution. EPA's proposed standards 12



## will ensure that power plants are responsible for 13



## cleaning up their toxic pollution instead of 14



## pumping it into the lakes and streams where we 15



## swim, fish, and boat. 16



## The Sierra Club calls upon EPA to 17



## establish the strongest possible standards to 18



## address toxic wastewater pollution from 19



## coal-fired power plants. America needs strong 20



## pollution standards to protect public health and 21



## the environment. 2294



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## EPA must require a final standard that 1



## adopts the proposals put forward in both Options 2



## 4 and 5 that mandate the dry handling of coal ash 3



## we well as water treatment technologies for 4



## scrubber sludge and leachate. 5



## Sierra Club supports a zero discharge 6



## policy. 7



## Thank you. 8



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 9



## Vanessa Pierce? 10



## MS. PIERCE: Thank you. My name is 11



## Vanessa Pierce, and I am the Eastern regional 12



## director for the Sierra Club's Beyond Coal 13



## Campaign, and I, like my colleagues, am here to 14



## urge the EPA to swiftly adopt the most protective 15



## possible standards in its new Effluent Limitation 16



## Guidelines. 17



## I oversee 19 states in this great country 18



## from Maine to Florida, and over 70 percent of the 19



## coal plants in those states have no limits on the 20



## amount of toxic heavy metals that they can dump 21



## into our waterways. 2295



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## And I want to take a minute just to share 1



## two stories from those states that illustrate the 2



## need for the adoption -- for the timely adoption 3



## of a zero liquid discharge standard. 4



## In North Carolina, Duke Energy's L.V. 5



## Sutton Power Plant, which is located near 6



## Wilmington, dumps its ash into two unlined ponds 7



## on the banks of Sutton Late, which is an 8



## impoundment of the Cape Fear tributary. The Cape 9



## Fear is a river that is already endangered with 10



## high levels of heavy metals, and the ash water 11



## that dumps into this tributary ultimately 12



## receives no treatment other than settling before 13



## it's dumped into the lake. 14



## Duke's water permit imposes no limits in 15



## the concentration of metals that can be 16



## discharged, and we're now seeing the impacts of 17



## this free pass downstream where fish in the 18



## Atlantic Ocean at the mouth of the Cape Fear 19



## River contain dangerous levels of mercury, and 20



## residents and tourists alike are warned not to 21



## consume them. 2296



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The river below the Sutton plant violates 1



## water quality standards for nickel and copper, 2



## and it is unsafe for harvesting aquatic life. 3



## This is no way for us to live. 4



## It's also critical for EPA to move 5



## swiftly on setting these standards because, as we 6



## have started to control the air pollution from 7



## power plants, we are now starting to see those 8



## same pollutants being caught as scrubber sludge 9



## and transferred to our water, so the communities 10



## that once had to breathe these dangerous 11



## pollutants will now have to drink them unless the 12



## rules change. 13



## A prime example of this problem can be 14



## seen in Pennsylvania in the case of First 15



## Energy's Bruce Mansfield Plant. This massive 16



## power plant is equipped with wet scrubbers, the 17



## fact that we applaud. Unfortunately, though, for 18



## years, First Energy has sent its scrubber waste 19



## and ash handling waste into the Little Blue Run 20



## coal ash impoundment, which is the largest 21



## unlined ash impoundment in the United States. 2297



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## In 2011, First Energy dumped over 100,000 1



## pounds of arsenic and selenium into this 2



## impoundment, and these pollutants and other toxic 3



## heavy metals are dumped into the Little Blue Run 4



## Stream and Mill Creek, ultimately making their 5



## way into the Ohio River. 6



## Pennsylvania regulators have identified 7



## these waterways as unsafe for aquatic life due to 8



## heavy metals and other problems, and they have 9



## advised community members to limit their 10



## consumption of fish caught in this river. And 11



## yet, this power plant, Bruce Mansfield, operates 12



## under an expired water permit that imposes no 13



## discharge limits or monitoring requirements for 14



## any of these metals where the impoundment enters 15



## public waters. 16



## The people of Pennsylvania and residents 17



## across the country have been left vulnerable by 18



## states that don't act and by outdated rules that 19



## haven't changed in the last three decades. This 20



## is why it is time for the EPA to finalize these 21



## long overdue standards and to require all coal 2298



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## plants to eliminate their most toxic discharges. 1



## Doing so will prevent children from getting sick, 2



## will save lives, and ensure that our water is 3



## safe to drink and our fish are safe to eat. 4



## Thank you. 5



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 6



## Elena Rios? 7



## MS. RIOS: Good afternoon. I'm here on 8



## behalf of the National Hispanic Medical 9



## Association, or NHMA, a non-profit association 10



## representing 45,000 Hispanic physicians in the 11



## United States. 12



## The mission of the NHMA is to improve the 13



## health of Hispanic populations. I'm honored to 14



## provide comments to the Environmental Protection 15



## Agency for this hearing on the power plants that 16



## we've heard a lot about today. These power 17



## plants contribute over half of all toxic 18



## pollutants to surface waters by industrial 19



## categories regulated by the Clean Air Act. We 20



## are most concerned about the coal waste going to 21



## public water treatment, but also to the lead, 2299



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## mercury, arsenic, selenium, and other minerals 1



## which become toxic pollutants, causing cancers 2



## and neurological damage among Hispanics and 3



## others who reside in industrial communities near 4



## these plants. 5



## Of growing concern to our organization is 6



## the disparate impact on the health and quality of 7



## life that pollutants from coal-fired power plants 8



## have on Hispanics. We have advocated 9



## persistently to eliminate health disparities 10



## among this population, and four of the five 11



## leading causes of death -- cancer, heart disease, 12



## and diabetes -- have all been linked to these 13



## toxic pollutants. 14



## Without strong and effective Effluent 15



## Limitation Guidelines from EPA, harmful 16



## substances will continue to pollute the waterways 17



## of communities hampered by low socioeconomic 18



## health outcomes, decreased productivity of our 19



## students and workers, and the health of all 20



## Americans. 21



## So the NHMA urges EPA to implement 22100



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## guidelines that ensure the health and safety of 1



## our communities and require zero discharge of 2



## deadly chemicals into our waterways and 3



## evaporation treatment of wastewaters, so that dry 4



## waste can be safely disposed in secure landfills. 5



## Lastly, as clinicians supporting public 6



## health policy, we urge EPA to address the threat 7



## to health from the coal-fired power plants by 8



## finalizing the coal ash rule that the agency 9



## proposed over 3 years ago. 10



## Thank you. 11



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 12



## Allison Chin? 13



## MS. CHIN: Thank you for the opportunity 14



## to testify in support of critical safeguards for 15



## toxic water pollution from coal plants. While 16



## the Environmental Protection Agency has called 17



## this hearing specifically on the pretreatment 18



## part of the proposed water pollution standards, 19



## the agency needs to listen more broadly about the 20



## serious water pollution caused by coal-burning 21



## power plants. 22101



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## All across the United States, millions of 1



## gallons per day of water pollution laced with 2



## toxic pollutants, including heavy metals like 3



## arsenic, mercury, selenium, and lead flow from 4



## coal-fired power plants into our rivers, lakes, 5



## and streams. 6



## The Clean Water Act was established to 7



## deal with such pollution, but after three decades 8



## of inaction, the largest industrial source of 9



## toxic water pollution continues to foul our 10



## waters. 11



## An update is long overdue, and I applaud 12



## the EPA for proposing a rule to finally clean up 13



## this mess, and while there are many options 14



## proposed in the rule, I strongly encourage the 15



## EPA to finalize the strongest option and move 16



## towards zero discharge of these water pollutants. 17



## I am invested in this at multiple levels. 18



## Professionally, as a cancer biologist, I know 19



## exposure to heavy metals, dangerous chemicals, 20



## can cause cancer, birth defects, and even death. 21



## Personally, I am concerned about health risks for 22102



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## myself, for my family, for friends, from water 1



## and food pollution from coal plants. What makes 2



## it so egregious is that poisoning our waters can 3



## be prevented. These long overdue standards, if 4



## finalized in their strongest form, will require 5



## all coal plants to eliminate their most toxic 6



## discharges and use available, existing technology 7



## to treat dangerous heavy metals in their 8



## wastewater. 9



## Limiting the amount of toxics in our 10



## water through common sense standards will save 11



## lives, prevent children from getting sick, and 12



## ensure our water is safe to drink and our fish 13



## safe to eat. 14



## My story is just one of millions out 15



## there on how this pollution is directly affecting 16



## our daily lives. No community should have to 17



## worry about the safety of its water or the health 18



## of its rivers. That is the guarantee that 19



## Congress set out in the Clean Water Act, but that 20



## promise has long been deferred. 21



## For the sake of the hundreds of thousands 22103



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of Americans who suffer because of that 1



## indefensible delay, it's time now for EPA at 2



## least to clean up this toxic industry. Clean 3



## water is a basic human right. We all deserve 4



## safe water to drink, clean lakes and rivers to 5



## boat and play in, flourishing watersheds, and 6



## healthy fish to eat. For too long, the coal 7



## industry has polluted our precious waters with 8



## impunity. There is no reason to tolerate 9



## continued dumping, and the Clean Water Act 10



## mandates cleanup. 11



## The strongest of EPA's proposed options 12



## will get us to that future. EPA has shown that 13



## the strongest options will be affordable and the 14



## most beneficial to our communities. I ask that 15



## you move to finalize the strongest option and 16



## move us toward zero discharge of pollution. 17



## Thank you for taking the time today to 18



## listen to me and to the other people who have 19



## come to D.C. to speak in favor of clean water for 20



## all Americans. 21



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 22104



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Kristin Cook? 1



## MS. COOK: Hello. This is going to be 2



## short and sweet. Hello and good afternoon. My 3



## name is Kristin Cook, and I'm a resident of 4



## Maryland, mother of three, and environmental 5



## activist. Thank you for letting me speak today. 6



## With regards to toxic water from power 7



## plants or ELG, the reason we're all here today, I 8



## must preface this by saying that I think it's 9



## odd, bizarre that we even have to testify to the 10



## basic desire to have no toxic anything dumped in 11



## our water sources, but for the record, it's my 12



## strong position that we should be setting a 13



## standard of zero discharge and requiring rigorous 14



## treatment of toxic heavy metals in the remaining 15



## waste. 16



## My position that there should be zero 17



## discharge allowed is based on two items. One, 18



## speaking on a local level, the Chesapeake Bay and 19



## its tributaries are already suffering from the 20



## effects of pollution and are just starting to 21



## make a slow comeback. 22105



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## More importantly, I don't trust coal 1



## energy companies to abide by set guidelines. For 2



## example, there's a possible lawsuit against the 3



## operator of three coal-fired plants in Maryland 4



## -- Chalk Point, Morgantown, and Dickerson -- for 5



## discharging excessive amounts of nutrient 6



## pollution from Chesapeake Bay rivers and trying 7



## to mask their violations by transferring 8



## pollution credits among facilities. 9



## On a personal note, my husband likes to 10



## take the kids fishing, as you can see from -- 11



## well, this isn't a very good picture, but this is 12



## a good picture. You know, we like to fish, of 13



## course, and it's sad to think that we have to 14



## question the fish that we catch. It's sad to 15



## think that we aren't comfortable swimming in 16



## certain waters. When will we see that by 17



## compromising the environment, we only hurt 18



## ourselves, and how penny-smart and dollar-foolish 19



## are we in thinking that it's okay to allow some 20



## degree of pollution only to have to pay for 21



## cleaning it up later, not to mention the health 22106



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## costs associated with sickness due to heavy metal 1



## contamination? 2



## So, in closing, be strong, and remember 3



## that your job is to protect the public and not 4



## the power plants. And I want to commend Mr. Wood 5



## for using a reusable water bottle. 6



## Thank you. Thank you very much. 7



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 8



## We are going to take a break for about 10 9



## minutes. It's now 2:43, so we will reconvene at 10



## about 2:53, and Liz Perera will be the next 11



## speaker. 12



## The next group of speakers, please sit up 13



## here and be ready to speak at your time. 14



## So we will see you in 10 minutes. 15



## Thanks. 16



## [Recess taken from 2:43 to 2:52 p.m.] 17



## Session C 18



## MR. STRASSLER: Okay. We're going to 19



## resume the hearing on pretreatment standards. 20



## Is Elizabeth Perera here? 21



## [No audible response.] 22107



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. STRASSLER: Elizabeth Perera? 1



## [No audible response.] 2



## MR. STRASSLER: No. We'll come back. 3



## Let's see. Oh, Kate Ortenzi. 4



## MS. ORTENZI: Hi. My name is Kate 5



## Ortenzi, and I'm here representing myself and as 6



## a member of the University of Maryland community 7



## in support of the EPA's updated Effluent 8



## Limitation Guidelines. 9



## I'm here in front of you today because 10



## coal-burning power plant effluent affects my life 11



## and the life of the ones I love directly. 12



## I'm an outdoorsy person, and this 13



## inclination has found me teaching 100 14



## undergraduate students at the University of 15



## Maryland. One of the perks of this job is 16



## getting to take them on weekly field trips. This 17



## fall, I will be taking them paddling in the 18



## Chesapeake Bay and to visit a local coal plant. 19



## Unfortunately, we will be able to do both on the 20



## same trip. 21



## Currently, there are more than 30 22108



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## coal-fired power plants in the Chesapeake Bay 1



## watershed with untold cumulative effects on the 2



## Bay and all that depend on it. 3



## In my class, Environment, Technology, and 4



## Economy, my students become well versed in the 5



## effects of heavy metals emitted by coal plants on 6



## our local industries that depend on the Bay. For 7



## crabbers, oystermen, and the Vitamin E industry 8



## dependent on the Menhaden fish, these industries 9



## are incredibly vulnerable to pollution and have 10



## all been suffering, especially the Vitamin E 11



## industry affected by heavy metals that 12



## bioaccumulate in the fish. 13



## I am personally concerned about business 14



## because after I leave the university, I intend on 15



## starting my own as a farmer and chef. With a 16



## degree in conservation biology, I intend to be 17



## extremely choosy as a find a place that is right 18



## for me and where I can offer products where I can 19



## account for every ingredient in them. 20



## Current effluent water standards will 21



## drive young entrepreneurs such as me away from 22109



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## locations where business could be affected. I am 1



## concerned about coal-fired power plant effluent 2



## because of the effects of the metals emitted. 3



## For example, boron is taken up excessively by 4



## plants when soil is contaminated and eating 5



## contaminated plants can cause reproductive and 6



## liver damage. 7



## Surface water containing selenium, 8



## arsenic, or cobalt, all present in effluent, 9



## takes more than 70 years to reach peak 10



## concentrations in groundwater. This means that 11



## even if well water is safe today, it is likely 12



## that it will become increasingly toxic over the 13



## next three generations. 14



## Even though we know the individual 15



## toxicity of all these chemicals, exposure to 16



## several of them at once, even at minute levels, 17



## produces an increased and ignoble risk to health. 18



## I am not only looking for a place to 19



## start my career, but since I am recently engaged, 20



## I am also looking for a place to build a home and 21



## a family. If my future children are remotely as 22110



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## inclined as I was to spend every warm day 1



## swimming and paddling, I will be sure to find a 2



## location that I know is safe. Locations of coal 3



## plants are something that I personally look at 4



## when I am making these life decisions, as the 5



## health of those I care about are a dependent. 6



## I urge the EPA to apply the strictest 7



## effluent limitations considered for healthy 8



## businesses and healthy families. I hope that 9



## this time next year as I take my students 10



## paddling, I can tell them about the improvements 11



## made in coal plant regulations that are working 12



## to improve our waterways and help our fledgling 13



## industries grow. And most of all, I hope to be 14



## able to expand my search for a home and a place 15



## to grow my business unhindered by concerns of 16



## heavy metal water pollution. 17



## Thank you. 18



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 19



## Is Leslie Fields here? 20



## [No audible response.] 21



## MR. STRASSLER: No? Okay. 22111



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## All right. Kevin Bromberg? 1



## MR. BROMBERG: Hello, EPA colleagues. 2



## It's been a while since I've seen you folks. We 3



## are pleased to have had the opportunity to work 4



## on this rule, and now you folks will be hearing a 5



## somewhat different perspective than what you've 6



## heard before. 7



## Kevin Bromberg with the U.S. Small 8



## Business Administration, Office of Advocacy, and 9



## our role is to protect small entities before the 10



## federal government. 11



## In the context of this rule, it's small 12



## independently owned utilities, small rural 13



## electric co-ops, and small municipalities. 14



## There was a Reg Flex Analysis done by 15



## EPA, and here, we have hundreds of small entities 16



## who own power plants, but EPA surprisingly has 17



## certified the rule as not having a significant 18



## economic effect on these small entities, and the 19



## first problem that we want to address is 20



## transparency. 21



## We are unable to look behind that 22112



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## finding. EPA thinks there is no problem here, 1



## but we cannot look behind that finding for the 2



## following reasons. 3



## There were no model plant costs for us to 4



## look at. EPA does not identify the small 5



## entity-owned utilities and their respective 6



## costs, and this is actually now -- the last point 7



## of it is of interest to the general audience. 8



## EPA does not identify plant-specific pollutant 9



## removals or the cost for each plant. I would 10



## think the public would want to know how much 11



## pollution is contributed by each plant as 12



## estimated by EPA, and EPA did fabulous work here. 13



## And I'd like the public to be able to see that, 14



## minus the 14 plants that claimed CBI. But 15



## hundreds of plants, this should be made available 16



## for. 17



## We have three preliminary conclusions 18



## from the analysis we've done. One is that the 19



## ash pollution removals have been vastly 20



## overestimated by EPA, and that's a key 21



## consideration when you're developing how to do 22113



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## your Final Rule. 1



## The cost of zero discharge of bottom ash 2



## and fly ash can be very prohibitive for small 3



## units, and those units would be better off 4



## closing, which isn't as good an option for 5



## certain people, than having those costs, but that 6



## is something that needs to be considered under 7



## the Clean Water Act. 8



## And EPA's regulatory concept of excluding 9



## smaller plants and relying on regulating only the 10



## larger plants for several of these options -- fly 11



## ash, bottom ash, and FGD wastewater -- make a lot 12



## of sense. 13



## Just to give one example of an EPA 14



## option, the EPA put on the table an option for 15



## retrofitting only the bottom ash plants under 400 16



## megawatts cutoff, and that would result in 17



## regulating only 115 plants instead of 240 plants 18



## under the Option 4. That illustrates how you can 19



## maximize the cost effectiveness of the 20



## regulation. 21



## Now, the major problem in the rulemaking 22114



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that we saw is EPA overestimating the toxic 1



## weight pollutant removals. This is a fancy way 2



## of estimating how much pollution is in there and 3



## how to weight them. 4



## The ash removals were overestimated by up 5



## to a factor of 10, relying on two factors. One 6



## is non-detect data, and the other is 7



## non-representative data from the '70s. We have a 8



## data set that has a median age of August 2011, 9



## and that data shows that the data has been 10



## overestimated for ash pollution by a factor of 11



## roughly 7. 12



## And to illustrate half the problem, half 13



## the problem with sulfide data, EPA had 18 14



## non-detect data points, 3 detect data points, 85 15



## percent non-detects. Normally, you would throw 16



## that way, and you would not be using that data, 17



## but EPA decided to use that data in any event. 18



## With regard to the three detects, it 19



## turns out that the source water, the incoming 20



## value was the same as the discharge value, and 21



## normally, you would think that the plant would be 22115



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## adding something. Well, there was nothing added 1



## there. That would be another reason for 2



## discarding. That's half of the toxic weight 3



## pollutants data there. 4



## So we are going to in conclusion -- what 5



## should EPA do about this data in front of it? It 6



## should consider what the pollutant levels really 7



## are from those plants, consider the NRDC decree 8



## consent levels on how you can exclude plants that 9



## have de minimis levels of pollution, and finalize 10



## regulatory options that allow small plants to 11



## stay in operation and still have de minimis 12



## levels of pollution as a result of the Final 13



## Rule. 14



## Thank you. 15



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 16



## Pardon me if I don't pronounce the name 17



## correctly. Aoife Semar? 18



## MS. SEMAR: Hello. My name is Aoife 19



## Semar, and I am a student at Skidmore College, 20



## and I am an intern at the Sierra Club. 21



## Coal provides an important energy source 22116



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and jobs for many Americans; however, 1



## coal-burning plants also produce dangerous 2



## toxins, which may harm the same people who should 3



## benefit from the energy produced by these plants. 4



## Because coal released in our local 5



## rivers, lakes, and streams affect so many people, 6



## today's hearing and public testimony is of 7



## special importance. 8



## Coal-burning plants release millions of 9



## pounds of toxic metals into our waterways. These 10



## chemicals can lead to serious health problems, 11



## including cancer and birth defects, yet nearly 12



## four out of five coal plants in the U.S. have no 13



## limits on the amount of toxins they are allowed 14



## to dump into the water. 15



## I live in New Jersey, a state where three 16



## active coal power plants operate, but only one of 17



## these plants has a permit that limits dumping of 18



## toxic metal. This is why the proposed national 19



## standards to limit toxins and wastewater from 20



## coal-burning plants are so important. Strong 21



## limits on the amount of toxins in our water will 22117



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## ensure that communities may benefit from energy 1



## that sustains them rather than being harmed. 2



## Thank you. 3



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 4



## Disha Banik? 5



## MS. BANIK: Hi. My name is Disha, and I 6



## am a student at UC-Berkeley. I want to start off 7



## briefly illustrating the current state of coal 8



## plant water pollution. 9



## Right now, four out of five coal plants 10



## in the U.S. have no limits on the amount of toxic 11



## waste they are allowed to dump into our water. 12



## Coal plants are permitted to dump heavy metals 13



## like arsenics, selenium, boron, cadmium, mercury, 14



## and lead into our waterways, polluting drinking 15



## water, fishing areas, local rivers, and streams. 16



## And for the first time, the EPA has released 17



## national standards that limit the amount of 18



## toxins that coal plants can dump in our 19



## waterways, and I want to thank you for this 20



## action. This is the first time in over 30 years 21



## that the standards for water pollution from coal 22118



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## plants has been updated, so thank you very much. 1



## And I thank you today not because I am 2



## directly affected by a coal power plant. I grew 3



## up in a relatively well-off and clean 4



## neighborhood in San Jose, California, and now I 5



## live in Berkeley, neither of which have coal 6



## plants near me. I don't use public waterways 7



## very often, and my drinking water is fantastic, 8



## but I know that is not the case for all 9



## Americans, and I don't have to travel very far 10



## from home to see this. I can go a little north 11



## to the coal plant in Stockton or down to the ones 12



## in California Central Valley. 13



## Over spring break, I actually did go to 14



## Central Valley, not to see coal plants, though. 15



## I went to learn about agriculture and labor 16



## issues, and there, I discovered a number of 17



## public health issues, the most pressing one being 18



## water quality. 19



## The water in many low-income communities 20



## primarily of color contain arsenic, nitrates, and 21



## other chemicals because the fertilizers, animal 22119



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## waste, and pesticides on agribusiness farms would 1



## run off into the groundwater that became tap 2



## water. And in communities where the average 3



## annual income was less than 15,000 a year, 4



## families were paying double for water, for the 5



## tap water they used to wash clothes and shower 6



## and for the bottles that they bought for 7



## drinking, cooking, and brushing their teeth. And 8



## why this is relevant to this is that these 9



## communities in Central Valley face a double 10



## threat to their drinking water. One is from 11



## agribusiness, and another one is from coal. 12



## So I want to remind the EPA, the gravity 13



## of its proposed legislation –- regulations, and 14



## specify that specifically, their impacts on the 15



## health of individuals I met in March, and while I 16



## thank the EPA, I want to remind the EPA that 17



## there is more to be done. I encourage the agency 18



## to be bolder and even more thorough. EPA should 19



## be setting zero discharge standards on all coal 20



## plants and require rigorous treatment on toxic 21



## heavy metals and any remaining waste. 22120



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Also, while the proposed standards 1



## address pollution and coal plant wastewater, 2



## there are other types of water pollution that 3



## still need to be addressed, including coal ash. 4



## I encourage the EPA to move forward on 5



## these additional rules and to do so as quickly as 6



## possible. This is because I know that having 7



## safe, clean drinking water should not be a 8



## privilege. It is a basic human right. 9



## Thank you. 10



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 11



## Ernest Lehman? 12



## MR. LEHMAN: Good afternoon. Do you like 13



## that? Thank you for this opportunity to testify. 14



## My name is Ernest Lehman, and I am a resident of 15



## Alexandria, Virginia. I'm also the proud 16



## grandfather -- I know I don't look it -- of four 17



## beautiful, young, healthy granddaughters, and all 18



## of whom live in the Alexandria-Arlington area, 19



## doubly helpful there -- happy there. 20



## I also want them to remain healthy, and 21



## that's the reason I'm here. I come to you as a 22121



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## grandparent, a citizen, and an active member of 1



## the Sierra Club to offer my views on the proposed 2



## coal-fired power plants water pollution 3



## standards. 4



## To get to the bottom line immediately, I 5



## urge you to adopt the most complete and stringent 6



## rules. We really need it. 7



## When I arrived in Alexandria in 2002, I 8



## became involved with closing the Potomac River 9



## Generating Station, PRGS, otherwise known as the 10



## Mirant Plant or the GenOn Potomac River 11



## Generating Station. It keeps changing. It has a 12



## new name now. It's called the "NRG plant." 13



## This is one of the oldest coal-fired 14



## power plants in the United States. It was the 15



## last one functioning in the metropolitan D.C. 16



## area. Happily, it closed on October 1st, 2012. 17



## Proudly, I was one of the many activists who 18



## helped convince the current owner of the plant, 19



## the NRG Corporation, to shut it down. 20



## We used many different strategies to 21



## close this plant. One of those strategies was an 22122



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## attack on the plant's lack of compliance to the 1



## National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System, 2



## NPDES -- I'm sure you're familiar with that -- 3



## the permit requirements. The plant was running 4



## on an expired permit and requested a new one. 5



## The Sierra Club's legal staff gave me a 6



## copy of the document they had prepared to 7



## intervene in this matter. Sierra Club attorney 8



## Zachary M. Fabish and Joshua Stebbins and their 9



## staff produced the April 13th, 2011, letter, 10



## which the Sierra Club submitted to the EPA On 11



## behalf of a large number of environmental 12



## organizations and itself. 13



## A copy of this letter was being provided. 14



## I left that outside in the box, but I'll do it 15



## electronically also. 16



## I want to take this opportunity to thank 17



## the Sierra Club's legal team for producing such a 18



## well-crafted, detailed, and comprehensive 19



## submission. The relevance of this letter to 20



## today's hearings is obvious. Many of the 21



## concerns that this letter addressed in 2011 are 22123



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the same ones being addressed in the proposed 1



## regulations currently before the EPA. 2



## Some of the topics I will address do not 3



## relate directly to toxic waste, but they do help 4



## paint a more complete picture of the devastation 5



## and human toll that coal-fired power plants 6



## produce. 7



## We called the Mirant plant that was about 8



## a mile from our house the "butcher of the 9



## Potomac." Now, all plants with open cooling 10



## systems, such as the GenOn or the Mirant or the 11



## NRG plant, kill. They will. Tens to hundreds of 12



## millions of fish per year are killed by 13



## open-cycle power plants. Remember the GenOn 14



## plant was running for 60 years. The math is 15



## astounding: 60 years times 100 million comes out 16



## to a little bit of -- quite a few fish. 17



## A species of sturgeon, the shortnose 18



## sturgeon most probably, has been lost as a direct 19



## result of the plant's operation. 20



## Another thing, now, this -- you know, 21



## looking at this letter and its great detail, I 22124



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## was struck by one part of it, and I said there 1



## wasn't much reaction to that. And that showed 2



## that the result of pollution was a reduced penile 3



## size. Now, I thought men might be concerned 4



## about something like that. It's part of the 5



## benefit of putting DEHP -- I'm being sarcastic -- 6



## in the water. It's a chemical, and it's part of 7



## the toxic waste from coal-fired power plants, and 8



## it is a probable -- it doesn't say "may" or 9



## "might" or "could." It's a probable human 10



## carcinogen. 11



## DEHP is known as an endocrine disrupter, 12



## and studies have associated DEHP with a number of 13



## reproductive disorders, including in humans the 14



## failure of the testes to distend and reduce 15



## penile size. I think that makes some -- some 16



## people should be concerned about that. 17



## I belong to part of a group that before 18



## they know how large it is, they cut off half of 19



## that. So, you know, this is something quite 20



## important. 21



## On to drinking water. Over the past 5 22125



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## years, I have been made aware of the low quality 1



## of drinking water -- 2



## MR. STRASSLER: Five minutes. 3



## MR. LEHMAN: I'm going too long. Okay. 4



## -- available to us, and as a result, I 5



## decided that we would distill all of our water. 6



## This is the remains of a distillate taken about 2 7



## days ago. We do about a gallon every 2 days. 8



## Take a look at the water on your desk right 9



## there, and this is the remains of a gallon of 10



## distilled water from the water tap. 11



## We've got a job to do, folks, a serious 12



## job to do. Thank you very much. 13



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 14



## Matt Wasson. 15



## MR. WASSON: My name is Matt Wasson. I 16



## am the director of programs with Appalachian 17



## Voices. We are a regional non-profit 18



## organization that aims to address the greatest 19



## environmental threats facing the Southern and 20



## Central Appalachian region, and with that as our 21



## mission, it's no mistake that the Effluent 22126



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Limitation Guidelines is one of the top issues 1



## that we consider that we're working on as an 2



## organization. We do consider that discharge from 3



## power plants as one of the top threats to the 4



## region that we represent. 5



## I am here from North Carolina, and 6



## there's been plenty of others from North Carolina 7



## who have done an excellent job describing the 8



## threats, the pollution threats we face from the 9



## 14 coal-fired power plants in the state. So I'm 10



## not going to get into that. I'm going to assume 11



## that you are fully aware of the issues we're 12



## facing. 13



## And what I really want to talk about is 14



## why it's so important that EPA use the full 15



## authority that you have been granted to follow 16



## the excellent science that you have generated to 17



## its logical conclusion and adopt either some sort 18



## of zero liquid discharge technology in your 19



## technology-based standards that you're 20



## developing. 21



## I think that we're all aware of the 22127



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## pushback that EPA is facing around the issues of 1



## not just complaints about costs for power 2



## companies, but around more legitimate issues of 3



## cooperative federalism, that delicate balance 4



## that EPA has to find between states' rights and 5



## the need to protect the health and safety of all 6



## Americans. 7



## I believe it's because of this pushback 8



## that we find ourselves discussing a dizzyingly 9



## complex 400-page document with 8 options, and I 10



## think that's probably why the White House was 11



## more willing to stick its nose in where many of 12



## us believe it didn't belong. 13



## But when EPA is considering finalizing 14



## this rule, let's look back at the formation of 15



## the EPA and why you were given the authority and 16



## the latitude that you were given. Congress had 17



## dozens of hearings when it was considering the 18



## National Environmental Policy Act and when the 19



## Nixon administration created the EPA, and the 20



## issues they discussed were all about concerns 21



## about states' rights and agency capture at 22128



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## different levels, and the authority that EPA was 1



## given to follow the science was very deliberate 2



## authority. That hasn't changed when power shifts 3



## in Congress changed, and so our hope is that you 4



## will follow what is clearly dictated by -- or 5



## should clearly be dictated by the scientific -- 6



## 500 pages of scientific findings that you 7



## generated in support of this rule. 8



## And I wanted to speak, just give an 9



## example in North Carolina of why it's so 10



## important that EPA do that. 11



## In North Carolina, more than half of our 12



## residents are on well water, myself included, and 13



## we also happen to be home to what is now the 14



## largest and most powerful electric utility in the 15



## United States. 16



## In recent years, we have seen an 17



## unprecedented rollback of state rules protecting 18



## surface and groundwater, but as a result of bills 19



## that have been written by this very powerful 20



## utility -- and the most recent example is a bill 21



## passed just last week that redefines the 22129



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## compliance boundary around coal ash ponds. And 1



## it used to be 250 to 500 feet. Now they've put 2



## it at the property line. What that means is that 3



## based on the state rules, we don't have any 4



## authority to address groundwater pollution coming 5



## from these coal ash ponds until it's already 6



## crossed over into neighboring properties. That 7



## kind of ridiculousness has occurred not because 8



## it's good public policy. It's because the most 9



## politically powerful lobby in the state is 10



## pushing it, and precisely to prevent the sort of 11



## political manipulation by powerful entities that 12



## EPA was given the authority that it has, and we 13



## strongly encourage you to use it. 14



## Adopt something resembling the Options 4 15



## or 5 in the rule that you have proposed to effect 16



## zero liquid discharge technology, and I'd just 17



## encourage you as you're developing this to just 18



## ask this one question: If not the EPA, then who? 19



## Who is going to protect the health and safety of 20



## people in North Carolina? I can assure you, it's 21



## not the state or the state agencies. 22130



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Thank you. 1



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 2



## Phillip Collins? 3



## MR. COLLINS: Hi. I want to thank you 4



## today for holding this hearing to let us testify. 5



## My name is Phillip Collins also known as -- 6



## nickname "Filo." I am a D.C. resident and a D.C. 7



## attorney. I'm a volunteer and member the Sierra 8



## Club and also organize an environment meet-up 9



## group with meetup.com. 10



## Think of a lottery. Pay a dollar for a 11



## lottery ticket, and you could win a million bucks 12



## or a trip to Disneyland or a smaller prize. With 13



## the profits going for a benefit to support good 14



## causes like education or health or senior 15



## citizens, the current lack of limitation on toxic 16



## coal waste water pollution is like a reverse 17



## lottery. So instead of paying to win, we don't 18



## pay in order that some people lose. By all of us 19



## not paying a bit more for electricity to pretreat 20



## or treat wastewater from coal power plants, we 21



## are setting some of us up, both humans and 22131



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## animals, to, quotation marks, win the lottery of 1



## being personally having their health adversely 2



## affected by coal toxic waste. 3



## This is a lottery that most of us would 4



## not like to win, and most of us think we're not 5



## going to win because other people will win that 6



## lottery of having cancers or other health 7



## problems resulting from winning the lottery of 8



## ingesting toxic coal waste, and we think that 9



## other people will be subjected to it. 10



## But personally -- and I think many of us 11



## in this room by their testimony have said they 12



## would prefer to pay a bit more in order that some 13



## people, maybe some other people, maybe 14



## themselves, would not, quotation marks, win the 15



## toxic coal waste lottery. 16



## Now, D.C. might think, well, we're here 17



## in D.C. It's a very clean city, but we do have a 18



## coal plant still here. That's the D.C. Capitol 19



## Hill Power Plant that burns coal, natural gas, 20



## and fuel oil, but they have recently requested an 21



## increase in their pollution to allow them to burn 22132



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## more coal because they are seeking to burn more 1



## -- to order more coal. And that is in a 2



## residential neighborhood on the Anacostia River 3



## watershed, and I live about 2 miles from it. 4



## So I think that we should end this 5



## lottery, the reverse lottery, we don't buy a 6



## ticket, and therefore, people are having their 7



## health impacted. I think we should -- and I 8



## agree with the Sierra Club that there should be 9



## zero toxic waste going into the waters, and we 10



## should go further than that and require that the 11



## winners of this lottery be the managers of the 12



## coal plants and the executives that are in charge 13



## of the coal companies that profit from this, that 14



## they should be required to live downriver or 15



## downstream and downwind from these plants 16



## themselves. 17



## So I want to thank you today for the 18



## opportunity to testify. 19



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 20



## Leslie Fields? 21



## MS. FIELDS: Good afternoon. I'm Leslie 22133



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Fields, and I am the director of the 1



## Environmental Justice and Community Partnerships 2



## Program of the Sierra Club here in Washington, 3



## D.C. And our program works directly in 4



## communities here in Washington, D.C., in West 5



## Virginia, Puerto Rico, Arizona, New Mexico, 6



## Detroit, Minneapolis, in Memphis, in Appalachia, 7



## and also in Louisiana. 8



## And I'm pleased to be able to testify in 9



## favor of the EPA ELG rule, the Effluent 10



## Limitation Guidelines, to finalize in the 11



## strongest form, eliminate and greatly reduce 12



## toxic dumping in our nation’s waterways that 13



## limit the amount of toxic materials that are 14



## dumped. 15



## These standards will also require coal 16



## plants to monitor and report amounts of pollution 17



## dumped into the water, giving us detailed 18



## information about the types and amounts of 19



## dangerous chemicals. 20



## Water is at the heart of our 21



## environmental problems and priorities. Its 22134



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## management and consumption play a crucial role in 1



## health, agriculture, and ecology. For decades, 2



## the self-evident worth has been ignored, and 3



## water pollution mismanagement afflict enumerable 4



## communities, particularly Environmental Justice 5



## communities. Chronic pathologies related to 6



## dehydration and water pollution are widespread. 7



## Despite the worth of water, it is often treated 8



## with that little care of caution. 9



## Here in the U.S., this callous attitude 10



## results in appalling concentrations of pollution, 11



## and coal plants are by far one of the worst 12



## offenders. 13



## Coal plants are notorious saboteurs of 14



## groundwater supplies in nearby waterways. The 15



## sheer volume of toxic heavy metals the industry 16



## dumps into ponds and rivers is staggering, 17



## accounting for over 60 percent of our nation's 18



## total water pollution. These substances are 19



## arsenic, mercury, selenium, all of which are 20



## toxic even in small doses, because they do not 21



## degrade over time. They bioaccumulate or 22135



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## increase in concentrations and move up the food 1



## chain. These toxins are dumped by millions of 2



## gallons and hundreds of plants every day. 3



## Many coal-fired power plants sit in 4



## recreational lakes and reservoirs, if not 5



## upstream from drinking water supplies. Several 6



## coal plants still handle their waste with the 7



## equivalent of 19th century technology, simply 8



## dunking the toxic revenue from coal combustion 9



## into vast surface impoundments or ponds that are 10



## often directly along your riverbanks. These 11



## byproducts constitute a noxious cocktail of 12



## pollutants that discharge directly into river, 13



## streams, and groundwater. 14



## Coal slurry, a byproduct of washing and 15



## processing coal with water, is highly toxic and 16



## leak into groundwater supplies. Up to 60 17



## different chemicals are used to wash coal. These 18



## chemicals combined with the heavy metals also in 19



## coal present an eminent danger to exposed 20



## communities. 21



## In the rural area of Mingo County and 22136



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Boone County, West Virginia, billions of gallons 1



## of coal slurry were injected in abandoned mines 2



## in those small communities that relied on well 3



## water. Residents of these communities reported 4



## changes in the color of their water to yellow, 5



## orange, and black. Sinks, tubs, and clothes 6



## became permanently stained, and metal appliances 7



## corroded rapidly. Illnesses spread to the 8



## community, ranging from skin rashes, severe 9



## diarrhea, to cancer and kidney failure. Heavy 10



## metals were found in drinking water supplies 11



## including iron, manganese, lead, aluminum, 12



## arsenic, and others to hundreds of times the safe 13



## drinking water limits. 14



## West Virginia has more slurry 15



## impoundments than any other state in the nation. 16



## A 2011 report by the Office of Surface Mining 17



## Reclamation found that the walls of coal slurry 18



## impoundments be dangerously weak. Tests of the 19



## densities of impoundment walls show flaws in all 20



## seven sites surveyed in West Virginia. 21



## Also, we also work with the communities 22137



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## in states like in Michigan, as I mentioned, and 1



## where toxic coal water is a problem in Michigan, 2



## has 21 active coal plants, only 8 that have 3



## permits, to limit the dumping of any toxic metal. 4



## No permits limit the arsenic, cadmium, or lead. 5



## Detroit Electric River Rouge Plant, which 6



## the NAACP has identified as one of the worst 7



## environmental justice offenders in the nation, 8



## lack such limits, for instance. 9



## At least 16 of these plants have 10



## discharges contaminated by metalating coal ash 11



## and dangerous smokestacks from scrubber sludge. 12



## Worst, of these plants, only three of them report 13



## how much toxic arsenic and selenium they are 14



## discharging to EPA's TRI. 15



## We also want to include that just 16



## recently on June 28th, many community groups, the 17



## Sierra Club, Earthjustice, also submitted 18



## comments for the cumulative -- to create 19



## cumulative impact standards at EPA to include 20



## coal ash, to include all these coal water 21



## problems in addition because these communities 22138



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## are so inundated with pollution not just from 1



## coal but other sources and refineries and 2



## agriculture processes. 3



## So we are very happy that EPA is looking 4



## at this and it's a long awaited solution, and for 5



## all of us who rely on water, because all of us 6



## do, and the ecosystem, these measures will not 7



## just reach us but also save us, and all of us 8



## particularly in impacted communities. 9



## Thank you. 10



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 11



## Mark Magaña. 12 

## MR. MAGAÑA: Hello. I am Mark Magaña, the 13



## executive director of the National Latino 14



## Coalition on Climate Change. We are a large 15



## coalition of national Latino organizations, 16



## grassroots supporters, community leaders, and 17



## advocates from across the nation working to 18



## ensure that Latinos have an integral voice in the 19



## national dialogue on climate change and energy 20



## policy. We are raising awareness about global 21



## warming and the impacts of climate change in 22139



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Latino communities and building the capacity 1



## needed to support grassroots advocacy efforts 2



## through research policy and educational outreach. 3



## NLCCC is concerned about pretreatment 4



## standards for coal waste going to public water 5



## treatment facilities, but we also have a deep 6



## concern about successful implementation of this 7



## rule overall. 8



## Our coalition partners are deeply 9



## concerned about the continued adverse impacts 10



## that harmful pollutants, particularly from 11



## coal-fired power plants, are causing on Hispanic 12



## and other communities of color. 13



## According to the 2000 Census, nearly 40 14



## percent of Latinos live within 30 miles of a 15



## power plant, and that is expected to increase. 16



## As a consequence, Latino communities are 17



## disproportionately impacted by the toxic 18



## pollutants that are discharged from these dirty 19



## power plants both in the air and into our water. 20



## 1.3 million Hispanics nationwide actively 21



## participate in fishing as a recreational, social, 22140



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## or family activity. However, much of the Latino 1



## community is unaware that invisible toxic 2



## chemicals such as mercury, PCBs, and other toxic 3



## substances could be present in the water and the 4



## fish that they eat. 5



## In a number of studies, it's been shown 6



## that Latino sport and commercial anglers catch a 7



## variety of sport fish and consume fish that they 8



## catch more frequently than non-Latino consumers. 9



## At the same time, Hispanic and other minorities 10



## are less likely than non-Hispanics to be aware of 11



## fish consumption advisories. This is yet another 12



## compelling reason why the EPA should enact the 13



## most stringent Effluent Limitation Guidelines 14



## possible to protect families from exposure to 15



## harmful pollutants through their water and 16



## aquatic activities. 17



## It is because Latino and other 18



## traditionally underrepresented communities are so 19



## disproportionally impacted by these harmful 20



## pollutants that NLCCC must urge the EPA to adopt 21



## the strictest possible wastewater guidelines that 22141



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## will adequately protect our communities, both for 1



## pretreatment standards for coal waste going to 2



## public water treatment facilities and for all 3



## discharges generally. 4



## In our coalition's view, these strict 5



## standards are best captured in EPA's most 6



## stringent proposal that requires dry handling of 7



## the toxic waste generated by coal plants, zero 8



## discharge from coal ash impoundments and 9



## landfills, and evaporation treatment for FGD 10



## scrubber sludge water. 11



## We also request that EPA finalize its 12



## Proposed Rule governing the disposal of toxic 13



## coal ash under the Resource Conservation and 14



## Recovery Act. Both rules are essential to 15



## protect the health of our members and necessary 16



## to guarantee the safety of the air, water, and 17



## food of our Hispanic communities nationwide. 18



## Thank you. 19



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 20



## Roger Rivera? 21



## MR. RIVERA: Good afternoon. I know it's 22142



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## been a long day for you, so thank you for this 1



## opportunity. 2



## My name is Roger Rivera, and I am the 3



## president of the National Hispanic Environmental 4



## Council founded in 1997. NHEC is the leading 5



## national Latino environmental and natural 6



## resource organization in the country. We are an 7



## advocacy, policy, and programmatic group and work 8



## to represent the Hispanic Americans before 9



## federal, state, and green group decision-makers. 10



## We seek to ensure our community has a 11



## seat at the national environmental 12



## decision-making table and to engage Latinos on a 13



## range of environmental and conservation issues. 14



## For over three decades, Americans have 15



## been waiting with growing impatience for the U.S. 16



## EPA to propose a new rule under the federal Clean 17



## Water Act to effectively, thoroughly, and safely 18



## treat toxic waste pollution from coal-fired power 19



## plants. Thus, NHEC is very pleased to be able to 20



## provide public comments on these long overdue 21



## actions regarding the so-called "pretreatment 22143



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## standards" of this coal waste. 1



## Today, as we all know, coal-fired power 2



## plants are the largest water polluters in the 3



## United States. These facilities generate nearly 4



## three-quarters of all toxic water pollution, and 5



## coal waste contains harmful quantities of 6



## arsenic, mercury, cadmium, and selenium. All 7



## these metals have proven to be -- to have 8



## damaging health impacts on people and our public 9



## health as well as aquatic life and ecosystems. 10



## Wastewater rules for power plants under 11



## the Clean Water Act have not been revised or 12



## improved for more than 30 years. Under current 13



## regulations, millions of pounds of these heavy 14



## metals pollute our waters annually. A 15



## significant amount of this pollution, as you have 16



## heard today, come from effluent from coal ash 17



## ponds as well as sludge from air pollution 18



## control scrubbers. 19



## Today, nearly 80 percent of the outflow 20



## from coal-fired power plants is responsible for 21



## virtually unlimited discharges of these toxic 22144



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## metals and other chemicals. 1



## Further, as air pollution control 2



## technologies improve, these discharges will only 3



## increase. Without effective rules on power plant 4



## water pollution, the generation of this toxic 5



## waste will continue with ongoing harmful, 6



## disproportionate, and environmental justice 7



## effects on nearby communities, many of whom are 8



## Latino. 9



## NHEC is here today to speak on behalf of 10



## our 7,000 members nationwide and the well-being 11



## of the over 50 million Latinos who are directly 12



## impacted by how responsibly and soon EPA carries 13



## out its duties to protect our environment. 14



## NHEC members fully recognize and support 15



## the effective regulation of power plants since 16



## many of these facilities are sited in low-income 17



## and community of colors. With 60 percent of all 18



## toxic pollutants and surface water originating 19



## from power plant discharges, it is now imperative 20



## that EPA take strong swift action to safeguard 21



## public and environmental health. 22145



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Regarding the pretreatment standard for 1



## coal waste going to public water treatment 2



## facilities as well as the Proposed Rule in 3



## general, NHEC has some specific concerns and 4



## recommendations. First, we strongly urge EPA to 5



## adopt the most stringent possible rule on 6



## effluent limitations. By doing so, our nation 7



## will see a 2.62-billion-pound annual reduction of 8



## toxic pollutants. 9



## Second, we urge the adoption of a zero 10



## discharge requirement from coal ash impoundments 11



## by implementing zero liquid discharge technology 12



## and conversion to safer coal ash handling systems 13



## that will eliminate discharges of the most 14



## contaminated wastewaters entirely. 15



## Third, we urge EPA to fully protect 16



## Latino communities living near coal-fired power 17



## plants by completing as soon as possible final 18



## rulemaking to safely dispose of toxic coal ash. 19



## Fourth, we urge EPA to exercise its 20



## undisputed authority under both the Clean Water 21



## Act and the Resource Conservation and Recovery 22146



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Act, RCRA, to ensure that the deadly toxins in 1



## coal ash do not pollute our air and water, and by 2



## doing so meet the legitimate environmental 3



## justice concerns of Latinos and other 4



## communities. 5



## Thank you for the opportunity to provide 6



## these comments today. Thanks. 7



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 8



## Yolanda Whyte. 9



## DR. WHYTE: Good afternoon. My name is 10



## Dr. Yolanda Whyte. I am a primary care 11



## pediatrician and environmental health expert with 12



## nearly a decade of experience caring for the 13



## health and well-being of children, especially 14



## those with special needs and those who are 15



## affected by health disparities and environmental 16



## injustices. 17



## I am the community outreach director for 18



## the National Medical Association, which is the 19



## largest African-American physician group in the 20



## country. I'm also a board member of the Florida 21



## Chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility, 22147



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985. 1



## Now, I'm concerned with the Proposed Rule 2



## under review at this afternoon's hearing, 3



## including the pretreatment standard for coal 4



## waste. There is an increasing body of research 5



## that continues to highlight health disparities of 6



## economically disadvantaged communities that 7



## reside near coal-fired power plants. The NAACP 8



## also has an excellent Coal Blooded report, 9



## C-o-a-l, that you may want to refer to. 10



## The chemicals that are discharged from 11



## coal plants drastically impact the health and 12



## quality of life of nearby residents who are 13



## already disproportionately affected by asthma, 14



## heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and other 15



## chronic diseases, which are all preventable. 16



## The EPA plays a more effective role than 17



## physicians in preventing these conditions by 18



## implementing stringent Effluent Limitation 19



## Guidelines that can reduce the impacts of harmful 20



## pollutants. Stringent guidelines will ensure 21



## that harmful substances such as cadmium, lead, 22148



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## mercury, arsenic, selenium, thallium, do not make 1



## their way into the water bodies of these 2



## community. 3



## As a practicing pediatrician, I'm deeply 4



## concerned that children are exposed to a greater 5



## dose of these toxins due to their smaller body 6



## weight, their earlier exposure when their organs 7



## are still in development, and even trace 8



## exposures can be devastating to the fetus. 9



## There is a disturbing relationship 10



## between these heavy metals and the rising 11



## incidence of autism, which is now seen in 1 in 50 12



## children. We should all be alarmed. The cost of 13



## treating autism is estimated at $7.9 billion 14



## annually, and this is according to a 2011 report 15



## published in Health Affairs. I'm also concerned 16



## about the correlations between these 17



## radionuclides and the rapidly rising rate of 18



## pediatric cancer, which has an estimated cost of 19



## $95 million, according to the same study. 20



## No child or family should have to suffer. 21



## I'm deeply and personally concerned that 11 of my 22149



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## local 13 rivers are impaired with heavy metals 1



## and radionuclides, and this is according to the 2



## EPA's own MyEnvironment analysis for my zip code. 3



## So the EPA must require zero discharges 4



## of these deadly chemicals into our waterways, 5



## mandate evaporation treatment of chemical-laden 6



## wastewaters, so that dry waste can be safely 7



## disposed in secure landfills, and address the 8



## threat to health from all toxic waste generated 9



## by coal-fired power plants by finalizing the coal 10



## ash rule that the agency has already proposed. 11



## This is not only an important step for 12



## environmental protection; it's a public health 13



## imperative. 14



## I thank you. 15



## SESSION D 16



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 17



## Rodrigo Samayoa. 18



## MR. SAMAYOA: Thanks for having us today. 19



## So I'm not a scientist or a lawyer, so my 20



## comments will not deal with the technical or 21



## legal aspects of this, the pollution standards in 22150



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## question, but instead I will tell you about why 1



## these pollution standards are important to me and 2



## for communities all across this country. 3



## I am originally from Guatemala, a small 4



## country in Central America, and my father grew up 5



## in this small town in the outskirts of Guatemala, 6



## a city called Villa Nueva. At the time that he 7



## was a kid, this town had a population of under 8



## 20,000 people. He always told me childhood 9



## stories of how he would work the fields with his 10



## father after school, how he would hike the 11



## mountains with his friends on weekends, or how he 12



## learned to swim in the local river. 13



## Today, Villa Nueva has a population of 14



## over 1 million people. The fields he worked as a 15



## kid are now covered by factories. The mountains 16



## have been clear-cut for development, and the 17



## river he learned to swim in is now just a stream 18



## used by the city to dump sewer water. 19



## When I was a kid, I learned to swim in a 20



## swimming pool because there was no rivers and 21



## lakes around for me to learn to swim in. This is 22151



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## just one of the examples of nature's gift that my 1



## dad was able to enjoy, but I could not. Because 2



## of the rapid and unregulated development 3



## throughout the region, my generation was denied 4



## the opportunity to live in a place where kids 5



## could swim in local rivers and enjoy the nature 6



## around them. 7



## This is not something I want to deny my 8



## kids or the kids of anyone in this country. 9



## Unlike Guatemala, the United States does have 10



## functioning state entities that can regulate 11



## urban industrial development to protect the 12



## jewels of our environment. It is time for the 13



## EPA to take up responsibility and enforce these 14



## pollution standards, so that communities across 15



## the country and future generations can enjoy the 16



## gifts nature gave us. 17



## It is time for the EPA to start 18



## regulating toxic discharge from coal plants, so 19



## that my children can one day swim in any river 20



## they want in this country. 21



## We cannot allow these dirty plants to 22152



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## deny the pleasures to future generations, the 1



## same way I was denied the clean air and clean 2



## water that my dad was able to enjoy. 3



## These regulations not only allow us to 4



## enjoy our environment, but they will also save 5



## lives, prevent children from getting sick, and 6



## ensure that the water remains safe to drink. 7



## In a recent speech President Obama gave 8



## on climate change, he said, and I quote, "While 9



## we may not live to see the full realization of 10



## our ambition, we will have the satisfaction of 11



## knowing that the world we leave our children will 12



## be better off for what we did." 13



## Now, none of us in this room may ever see 14



## the full benefits of these pollution standards 15



## across the country, but we will know that our 16



## children will be able to enjoy these benefits. 17



## So if you will not regulate this 18



## pollution for environmental reasons or for your 19



## own enjoyment and health, at least do it for the 20



## children. We owe it to them. 21



## Thank you. 22153



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 1



## James Vandeventer? 2



## MR. VANDEVENTER: Good afternoon. Thank 3



## you for giving me the opportunity to testify 4



## today. My name is James Vandeventer, and I'm an 5



## intern at the Sierra Club. 6



## Today, I urge the EPA to implement 7



## stringent water pollution standard for 8



## pretreatment at steam electric power plants to 9



## protect our national health and the environment. 10



## I was born and raised in Los Angeles and 11



## at age 12 was told that I have -- or I have -- 12



## whoa, sorry -- I have asthma. I'm sure some of 13



## you have experienced or seen pictures of L.A.'s 14



## infamous smog, so my diagnosis may not come as a 15



## complete surprise. But you might ask yourself 16



## why am I talking about air pollution at a hearing 17



## on water pollution regulations. Well, the answer 18



## is that they are inextricably linked. 19



## The reasons I say this are that, first, 20



## the steam these power plants use to produce 21



## electricity comes from burning coal to heat water 22154



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and make steam. This process leads to 1



## significant air pollution, and in fact, power 2



## plants make up about a third of our nation's 3



## greenhouse gas emissions. 4



## And second, many of the by products from 5



## burning coal don't end up in the air. Instead, 6



## byproducts such as lead, mercury, arsenic, and 7



## dozens of other metal pollutants end up as toxic 8



## sludge that must be pretreated before going to a 9



## treatment plant and then finally being 10



## re-released into our nation's lakes, rivers, and 11



## oceans. 12



## Now, there have been significant steps 13



## taken to limit air pollution, most notably the 14



## limitations on sulfur emissions that were passed 15



## in the '90s. The results of these regulations 16



## were tangible and immediate. Americans saw a 17



## significant decrease in acidic rain. However, 18



## the standards that limit water pollution from 19



## power plants have not been updated in decades. 20



## Power plants have been able to dump the sludge by 21



## products from burning coal into our waterways and 22155



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## meet only bare minimum standards of toxic levels, 1



## all while making a handsome profit. 2



## The big issue with water pollution is 3



## that unlike with sulfur, the results of this 4



## pollution are not immediate. The long-term 5



## health effects of these toxins can be deadly, 6



## cancer, birth defects, neurological damage, not 7



## to mention the effects on rivers’ or lakes’ or 8



## oceans' delicate ecological balance. 9



## I applaud the EPA for proposing the 10



## Effluent Limitation Guidelines we are here to 11



## testify today about. Placing limits on the 12



## sludge leaving power plants makes sense, and 13



## telling polluters to lower the amounts of toxic 14



## metals they release seems not only logical, but 15



## necessary to protect the health of the American 16



## people. 17



## In Los Angeles, our mayor recently 18



## announced that the city would no longer rely on 19



## coal for energy needs, and while this is a step 20



## in the right direction, coal plants continue to 21



## operate around the country, and often their air 22156



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and water pollution disproportionately affect 1



## underserved and poor communities. I hope that 2



## the EPA will protect the health of all Americans 3



## and adopt the most stringent proposed regulations 4



## for steam electric power plants, so that the 5



## byproducts of burning coal do not do irreparable 6



## damage to Americans or the lakes, rivers, and 7



## oceans of this great nation. 8



## Thank you. 9



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 10



## Elizabeth Perera? 11



## MS. MULLER: Hi. I'm a colleague of 12



## Elizabeth Perera, and I am going to read her 13



## statement, if that's okay. 14



## MR. STRASSLER: Could you state your 15



## name, please. 16



## MS. MULLER: My name is Brenna Muller. 17



## So she wrote, Good afternoon. I am 18



## Elizabeth Martin Perera, senior Washington 19



## representative working on climate change, coal, 20



## and public health with the national Sierra Club. 21



## I hold an MPH in environmental health and a 22157



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## master's of environmental management with a focus 1



## on air pollution, climate, and energy-related 2



## studies and have nearly a decade of experience 3



## working on these issues at the federal and state 4



## level. 5



## Burning coal releases toxic mercury that 6



## is then dumped into rivers and streams. This 7



## poison then accumulates in the food chain, 8



## eventually making its way into our bodies when we 9



## eat contaminated fish. 10



## Mercury is a powerful neurotoxin that can 11



## damage the brain and nervous system. As a recent 12



## mother of two, I am particularly worried about my 13



## fellow mothers and mothers-to-be when it comes to 14



## mercury pollution since exposure to mercury can 15



## cause developmental problems, learning 16



## disabilities, and delayed onset of walking and 17



## walking in babies and infants. 18



## Our state has seven active coal power 19



## plants, and none of them have permits which limit 20



## dumping of any toxic metal, including arsenic, 21



## boron, cadmium, mercury, and lead. At least five 22158



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## of these plants have discharges contaminated by 1



## metalating coal ash or dangerous smokestack 2



## scrubber sludge. Worse, several of these plants 3



## do not even report how much toxic arsenic and 4



## selenium they are discharging in the EPA's 5



## Enforcement and Compliance History Online 6



## database. 7



## Those few that do report both arsenic and 8



## selenium discharged over 400 pounds of arsenic 9



## and selenium in one year according to EPA's ECHO 10



## database. All that pollution has serious 11



## consequences. At least one of these plants is 12



## dumping its waste into water bodies which have 13



## been formally designated as having impaired water 14



## quality, the Middle River and Browns Creek. 15



## I strongly support the Environmental 16



## Protection Agency proposed new coal plant water 17



## pollution standards to limit the amount of toxic 18



## metals that can be dumped in the water. These 19



## water pollution limits finalized in their 20



## strongest form could eliminate or greatly reduce 21



## toxic dumping in our nation's waterways that 22159



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## limit the amount of toxic metals that is dumped 1



## in our waterways. 2



## These standards will also require all 3



## coal plants to monitor and report the amount of 4



## pollution dumped into the water, giving us 5



## detailed information about the types and amounts 6



## of dangerous chemicals in our water. 7



## Limiting the amount of toxics in our 8



## water will save lives, prevent children from 9



## getting sick, and ensure water is safe to drink 10



## and our fish safe to eat. 11



## Thank you. 12



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 13



## Alyce Ortuzar? 14



## MS. ORTUZAR: My name is Alyce Ortuzar, 15



## and I am a member of the Sierra Club. 16



## The book titled "The Polluters," 17



## published in 2010, is a comprehensive exposé of 18



## assorted failures of the government to put public 19



## health and people before corporate profits. 20



## The book documents a historical pattern 21



## of corporate influence, obstructions, dishonesty, 22160



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## and greed, combined with the complicity of 1



## government agencies that accepted and promoted 2



## flawed and weak risk assessment paradigms. 3



## Water transcends artificial political 4



## boundaries, so it is incumbent upon the EPA to 5



## enact the most stringent regulations, guidelines, 6



## and enforcement mechanisms that will protect us 7



## all. It is time to stop treating people and 8



## natural resources as if they were expendable. 9



## The chilling horror stories I have heard 10



## today are truly a national disgrace, and it also 11



## seems fraudulent for taxpayers to pay more and 12



## more to clean up or waterways, such as the 13



## Chesapeake Bay, while senseless and destructive 14



## industrial practices continue because regulations 15



## are lax or nonexistent. 16



## Northern Virginia toxicologist Dr. Janet 17



## Sherman maintains that harmful substances have no 18



## safe levels of exposure, and with that in mind, I 19



## applaud the EPA for holding this public hearing, 20



## so we can lend our support for unequivocally 21



## strong and protective actions that truly reflect 22161



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the mission of this agency and that recognize and 1



## restore the integrity of our water sources and 2



## marine life as the commons that they are. 3



## Thank you. 4



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 5



## Marc Imlay? 6



## MR. IMLAY: After I got my Ph.D., my 7



## first job in 1968 was the Water Quality 8



## Laboratory for the Federal Water Pollution 9



## Control Administration, which 2 years later 10



## President Richard Nixon combined with Air 11



## Pollution, Pesticides, and two other agencies to 12



## form the Environmental Protection Agency in 1970. 13



## We tested aquatic species with pollutants 14



## for survival, growth, and reproduction. Most 15



## species would test for a full year. We all 16



## agreed that the biggest threat to filter feeders, 17



## such as mussels, gill-breathing river snails, 18



## oysters, clams, and Menhaden fish, was not the 19



## usual culprits, metals and so forth, low oxygen, 20



## but it was sediment from fly ash, erosion, and 21



## stormwater runoff that the animals ate instead of 22162



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## food, so they starved to death. They could no 1



## longer eat the phytoplankton, zooplankton, LG 2



## copepods, and isopods. 3



## I have set out attachments out there with 4



## references to the extensive studies that we in 5



## the Water Quality Lab reviewed as well as going 6



## out on our own and observing what was happening 7



## by the Bureau of Sport Fisheries and Wildlife, 8



## and I think those studies should be resurrected. 9



## They have incredibly thorough research with 10



## diagrams and everything. They present a particle 11



## size that's the same as what they eat, and then 12



## they starve to death. 13



## Natural erosion, by the way, did not 14



## cause the problem, but it was like erosion from 15



## artificial sources that did cause the problem. 16



## When I worked for the Endangered Species 17



## Office, the U.S. Department of the Interior in 18



## 1970s, I listed freshwater mussels from 19



## Appalachian coal mining areas. The most 20



## important threat was the fly ash in the streams. 21



## The third paragraph of C-1-6, past and current 22163



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## threats in the updated attachment from the EPA 1



## describes the threat from sources such as fly ash 2



## from coal. 3



## If there are any questions, that's fine, 4



## but thank you very much. 5



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 6



## Doug Aus? 7



## MR. AUS: Hi. My name is Doug Aus, and 8



## I'm from Towson, Maryland. 9



## It has been 30 years since laws were 10



## passed to regulate what toxic metals coal plants 11



## can discharge into American waterways. These 12



## laws don't even cover some of the worst 13



## pollutants. Coal plants annually discharge 14



## millions of tons of lead, arsenic, selenium, 15



## boron, and mercury into our waterways. This 16



## pollutes drinking water, kills fish, and hurts 17



## outdoor recreation. Therefore, the Environmental 18



## Protection Agency needs to set higher standards 19



## to force coal companies to clean up America's 20



## rivers, lakes, bays, and other important bodies 21



## of water. 22164



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The EPA has acknowledged that it has not 1



## kept up with industry developments to clean up 2



## the worst pollutants. Ideally, the EPA should 3



## set zero discharge standards and require 4



## intensive treatment of toxic metals and any 5



## remaining waste that comes from these plants. 6



## These proposed power plant water 7



## pollution standards will set national standards 8



## to limit toxic metals and wastewater from all 9



## coal-burning plants. While this rule focuses on 10



## the pretreatment part, the EPA needs to do more 11



## to protect our waterways. 12



## There are three coal-burning power plants 13



## on bodies of waters that feed directly into the 14



## Chesapeake Bay in the Baltimore area. Since my 15



## dad and his brothers like to fish, I have an 16



## interest in seeing that the Chesapeake Bay is 17



## protected for them to fish. 18



## I also notice that the children of one of 19



## my friends who lives near one of these plants 20



## tends to get sick a lot. The pollutants put into 21



## the water by the coal companies make people sick. 22165



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## I am currently reading a book titled 1



## "World on the Edge" by Lester Brown. He devotes 2



## a full chapter to water shortages and the adverse 3



## effects that they have on food or our harvests 4



## all across the world. 5



## States such as California, Colorado, and 6



## Florida have seen their irrigated areas shrink as 7



## their aquifers are being depleted. Fast-growing 8



## cities in the Southwest have taken in more 9



## irrigation water. Therefore, the U.S. total 10



## irrigated area has likely peaked. Fast-growing 11



## cities and towns in Colorado, for example, are 12



## buying irrigation water rights from farmers and 13



## ranchers. This means we have to raise water 14



## productivity by protecting water from pollutants 15



## like toxic waste metals from coal-fired power 16



## plants. 17



## Thank you very much. 18



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 19



## Joshua Allen? 20



## MR. ALLEN: Good afternoon. I want to 21



## thank you for allowing public comments regarding 22166



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## this issue, and thank you to the Sierra Club for 1



## their tireless efforts on this matter. 2



## This morning, I am currently a school 3



## teacher in Washington, D.C., and I told my 4



## students what I was doing this afternoon, and I 5



## was pretty excited with their enthusiasm for this 6



## issue and keeping the environment clean, and I 7



## asked them what were their thoughts. One student 8



## in particular was very excited. She was jumping 9



## out of her seat, and she said, "We need to keep 10



## the water clean because if we don't, we can get 11



## sick from drinking it, and we can even get 12



## cancer." And for a fourth grader, I was pretty 13



## impressed that she was already that aware of how 14



## important keeping our water clean is. Again, she 15



## and other students expressed their passion for 16



## the environment and keeping our water safe. 17



## So I want to thank you for your proposed 18



## regulations. I only wonder why this has taken so 19



## long to pass -- or hopefully will pass. It seems 20



## so obvious to keep water clean, but politics and 21



## money have a great impact. Water is a basic 22167



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## necessity for all humans, yet by contaminating 1



## drinking water, we hurt all levels of society. 2



## Yet, those without the means to purchase bottled 3



## water must decide to use their limited resources 4



## to purchase a basic necessity in order to keep 5



## their family healthy, which impacts their ability 6



## to pay rent, eat healthy, and enjoy other aspects 7



## of life. 8



## Clean water also allows for healthy fish 9



## populations which can be one of our most 10



## sustainable forms of food. 11



## We now have many alternative forms of 12



## energy that contribute to the power grid and 13



## reduce overall waste. The EPA representing the 14



## United States on the global scale must set the 15



## precedent for other countries to follow. This is 16



## our world, which we want to leave for younger 17



## generations. The United States represents such a 18



## small portion of the world population, yet 19



## produces a disproportionate amount of pollution. 20



## However, as developing countries with greater 21



## populations continue to modernize, they will harm 22168



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## the planet on a greater scale based on the model 1



## we have given them. They and we as citizens 2



## depend on you to do the right thing and set these 3



## standards for one of our basic human needs. 4



## Thank you. 5



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 6



## Michael Horka? 7



## MR. HORKA: Good afternoon. My name is 8



## Michael Horka. I am a resident of Washington, 9



## D.C., and a Ph.D. student in American studies at 10



## the George Washington University. I am here 11



## today because of my own view that the EPA should 12



## enact the most stringent possible pretreatment 13



## standards for coal waste, but I know that I also 14



## represent other voices who can't be here today, 15



## those affected by coal-based pollution and my 16



## friends and colleagues who share my views on this 17



## issue. 18



## I am also a native Michigander and want 19



## to speak to the relationship between water 20



## pollution and the place that I lived for 30 21



## years. 22169



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## The largest source of power in Michigan 1



## comes from coal-fired power plants. They are 2



## located on major waterways, on the shores of the 3



## Great Lakes and the Southeast Michigan watershed, 4



## where I grew up. The largest of these plants are 5



## located in that area, in fact, Southeast 6



## Michigan, along the St. Clair River, the Detroit 7



## River, and Lake Erie. 8



## For years, community members and 9



## activists have been battling industry there, 10



## coal, steel, gypsum, and others, because of the 11



## health impacts on the respiratory health based on 12



## emissions and blowing coal sediment. Asthma has 13



## been rampant often for low-income residents of 14



## Detroit and the downriver neighborhoods, but many 15



## are less aware of the insidious nature of water 16



## pollution and the failure to enact Clean Water 17



## Act legislation to regulate toxic coal waste in 18



## an area that is surrounded by the Great Lakes, 19



## the Rouge River watershed, and a vast array of 20



## lakes that dot our landscape. 21



## This kind of pollution, which requires 22170



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## action by the EPA, affects my friends, my 1



## neighbors, my family, and community in Michigan. 2



## And Michigan water is not only for life; 3



## it is for recreation, transportation, and the 4



## flourishing of animals and plants. It is part of 5



## the Michigan imagery. 6



## In recent memory, we recall in Michigan 7



## the way industrial waste has devastated the 8



## Detroit River and Rouge River watershed. Fishing 9



## in Lake Erie, the Detroit River, the St. Clair 10



## River, and beyond has been devastated by mercury 11



## pollution, one of the key components of toxic 12



## coal waste that continues to be allowed to be 13



## leached into our watersheds across the United 14



## States. 15



## Coal waste not only contains mercury, as 16



## we all know, but also carcinogens, and in a 17



## nation with an ongoing cancer epidemic, it seems 18



## rather unconscionable not to take action when we 19



## have the opportunity. This is the opportunity. 20



## My own family has been stricken by 21



## cancer, no doubt in part from the carcinogens 22171



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## available for intake in our air and water. I 1



## have lost both grandfathers and a beloved aunt to 2



## cancer. Carcinogens, we know very well, like 3



## arsenic, are being released from coal plants and 4



## making toxic the watersheds they enter. 5



## I also think of my pregnant sister Sarah 6



## and the effects arsenic has on a developing 7



## fetus, and it worries me that this element is so 8



## easily dispersed by coal plants in our country. 9



## The effects of this pollution are already 10



## felt, but will be even more catastrophic without 11



## intervention by the EPA. 12



## If EPA's priority is human health, as it 13



## claims, and I am inclined to believe, it seems a 14



## very grave dereliction of its duty to enable the 15



## continual hazard of toxic coal waste leaching 16



## into our water systems. I urge you to prioritize 17



## health over energy lobby persuasions and alleged 18



## self-regulation. It is essential that the EPA 19



## adopt a zero discharge standard for coal plant 20



## waste. The strictest regulation should be 21



## adopted for pretreatment, without question. 22172



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Thank you. 1



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 2



## Diane Brown? 3



## [No audible response.] 4



## MR. STRASSLER: Ellen McBarnette? 5



## [No audible response.] 6



## MR. STRASSLER: Tom Richards? 7



## MR. RICHARDS: Good afternoon. My name 8



## is Tom Richards. I'm a law student at American 9



## University in Spring Valley, Northwest D.C., and 10



## a member of the school's Environmental Law 11



## Society. I live in Northwest D.C. in the Van 12



## Ness neighborhood. 13



## I, like numerous other residents and 14



## visitors, routinely enjoy the Washington, D.C., 15



## region's outdoor areas, from Rock Creek Park to 16



## the monument and memorials, to sites farther 17



## afield like Harpers Valley or Mount Vernon. The 18



## continued discharge of harmful toxins such as 19



## arsenic, selenium, mercury, and lead from coal 20



## plants into the regions' waters limits our 21



## collective ability to appreciate and enjoy all 22173



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that our Nation's Capital region has to offer. 1



## A power plant sits right across the 2



## Potomac from Anacostia, and it's adjacent to Old 3



## Town Alexandria and only a few miles upriver from 4



## Mount Vernon. Toxic pollutants discharged from 5



## such plants affect the safety and serenity of the 6



## water. Activities such as fishing or swimming 7



## are unwise, while drinking the water is foolish 8



## at best. 9



## The harm presented by unchecked toxic 10



## pollutants extends outside of the District's 11



## borders, as the Potomac and the Rock Creek, the 12



## Anacostia and the Tidal Basin defining waters of 13



## D.C., all form part of the greater watershed of 14



## the Chesapeake Bay, one of the greatest estuaries 15



## in the world. 16



## As the Chesapeake Bay region is the land 17



## of the Colonists, the heart of the Revolution and 18



## the Civil War, and the center of contemporary 19



## American political and civic life, millions of 20



## visitors from across the nation and around the 21



## world visit each year. As long as toxic 22174



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## pollutants are limitlessly discharged into the 1



## watershed's waters, the ability of these millions 2



## to enjoy the Chesapeake suffers. 3



## As the governmental steward of the health 4



## of our nation's water and air, EPA can help 5



## ensure that the waterways of this great region 6



## with the community's parks, monuments, and 7



## battlefields that line the shores will be kept 8



## clean and healthy for the enjoyment and safety of 9



## our entire nation. 10



## An EPA standard that limits the amount of 11



## toxins like arsenic, selenium, mercury, and lead 12



## dumped into our water would go far in answering 13



## the public demand for clean, healthy, and safe 14



## water, and satisfy the recreational and hygienic 15



## needs of both residents and visitors. 16



## Thank you. 17



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 18



## Terry McGuire? 19



## MR. McGUIRE: Good afternoon, and thank 20



## you for the opportunity to speak today about the 21



## Environmental Protection Agency's proposal to 22175



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## clean up toxic water pollution from our nation's 1



## coal-fired power plants. My name is Terry 2



## McGuire, and I am a public policy advocate with 3



## the Sierra Club here in Washington, D.C. 4



## At the Sierra Club, I work primarily on 5



## issues relating to air pollution, particularly 6



## emissions from coal-fired power plants. So while 7



## we still have a long way to go in clearing 8



## America's air, I did want to start by commending 9



## the EPA for your impressive work these last 4-1/2 10



## or so years. From the mercury and air toxic 11



## standard to the recently updated soot standard, 12



## your efforts are saving lives and making a big 13



## difference for millions of Americans. 14



## So while we are making remarkable 15



## progress on the air front, it's critical that the 16



## EPA hold these same dirty power plants 17



## accountable for the toxic pollution they are 18



## dumping into our country's waterways. A shocking 19



## four out of five of our nation's power plants 20



## have no limits on the amount of heavy metals they 21



## can dump into our streams and rivers. In fact, 22176



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## coal plants are the number-one source of toxic 1



## water pollution in the United States. 2



## At this very moment, plants around the 3



## country are dumping deadly and carcinogenic 4



## pollutants into our water, toxins like arsenic, 5



## selenium, boron, cadmium, mercury, and lead. 6



## Every year, millions of tons of this extremely 7



## hazardous sludge are sent untreated into our 8



## lakes, rivers, and streams by corporate polluters 9



## more concerned about profit margins and executive 10



## bonuses than the health of their neighbors and 11



## customers, so we need you to act. 12



## I grew up in Franklin County, Virginia, 13



## just south of Roanoke, and attended college at 14



## Virginia Tech and Blacksburg. While I now live 15



## and work in Washington, D.C., most of my family 16



## is in Southwest Virginia, and I will always 17



## consider that area home. 18



## I was motivated to speak today because I 19



## am concerned about the water quality and the 20



## health of my family in my home state. Currently, 21



## Virginia has 16 active coal plants, and there are 22177



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## no limits on the amount of toxic waste they can 1



## dump into neighboring waterways. At least seven 2



## of these plants are known to have discharges 3



## contaminated by heavy metalating coal ash or 4



## smokestack scrubber sludge, and of these, only 5



## four disclose to EPA how much arsenic they are 6



## discharging. 7



## Additionally, eight plants are dumping 8



## their waste into water bodies which have been 9



## formerly designated as having impaired water 10



## quality, including the James and York Rivers. 11



## Memories from my younger years are laced 12



## with time spent on and around the water. I think 13



## of playing in creeks and fishing in ponds near 14



## our house. I think of camping by and swimming in 15



## the James River with my grandparents. I think of 16



## summer afternoons spent jet-skiing and bobbing on 17



## a pontoon boat in Smith Mountain Lake, tubing 18



## down the New River with college friends, hiking 19



## up the mountains of Jefferson National Forest to 20



## see the Cascades Waterfall, and driving along the 21



## Roanoke River, an imperiled body that local and 22178



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## state groups have worked for decades to clean up 1



## and restore. 2



## Virginia's waterways from Clinch Valley 3



## to the Chesapeake Bay are a precious natural 4



## resource, and they are part of what make Virginia 5



## special. 6



## Sadly, Virginia, like too many other 7



## states, is being poisoned by irresponsible 8



## corporate polluters. The good news is that you 9



## have the power, and indeed the obligation, to 10



## hold these bad players accountable. Your 11



## proposed Effluent Limitation Guidelines for steam 12



## electric generators would represent the first 13



## time that standards for water pollution from coal 14



## plants have been updated in more than 30 years. 15



## As your agency has recognized, the 16



## current guidelines have not kept pace with 17



## developments in the industry and have failed to 18



## address the worst pollutants in our waterways. 19



## So the time to act is now. 20



## I strongly urge you to expeditiously move 21



## forward, enforce the Clean Water Act, and 22179



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## finalize this long-overdue national standard. 1



## Thank you again for the opportunity to 2



## speak today about this important proposal. We 3



## look forward to working with EPA as you move 4



## forward to protect our families from toxic water 5



## pollution. 6



## Thanks. 7



## MR. STRASSLER: Okay. Thank you. 8



## We are going to take another break. We 9



## still have several more people who have asked to 10



## testify. Most of them are here. So we'll take 11



## about a 10-minute break. 12



## Let's see. It is 4:13. So let's say 13



## we'll be back at 4:25. 14



## Thank you. 15



## [Recess taken from 4:13 to 4:34 p.m.] 16



## SESSION E 17



## MR. STRASSLER: We are going to get 18



## started. This is the last stretch. This is the 19



## pretreatment hearing, if you're in the wrong 20



## room, for steam electric. 21



## Okay. We have several more people on our 22180



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## list, and we will start with Carletta Hutt. 1



## [No audible response.] 2



## MR. STRASSLER: Not here. I was told she 3



## was here. Okay. 4



## Andre Sauvageot? Please come forward. 5



## MR. SAUVAGEOT: I am Andre Sauvageot, 6



## Colonel, U.S. Army, retired. My wife and I live 7



## in Reston, Virginia, as permanent residents, and 8



## I want to thank the Sierra Club for its strong 9



## advocacy for a clean environment and for 10



## arranging for me the honor of addressing this 11



## hearing today. 12



## So my 27 years of active military service 13



## included 9 years of wartime service in Vietnam, 14



## but I'm out of uniform now, and I am joining with 15



## many other fellow veterans across the country 16



## and, of course, in the Commonwealth to fight a 17



## war that strikes closer to home and, frankly, is 18



## more essential. And it is the war on public 19



## health in the immediate future, and longer term, 20



## it's really an existential threat. 21



## So to fight this other war, I've become a 22181



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## partner of the Interstate Traveler Company 1



## headquartered in Detroit, Michigan, because this 2



## company has designed a unique product, with the 3



## potential to help America and the world to solve 4



## our energy problems and environmental problems. 5



## Now, our founder and managing partner, 6



## Justin Sutton, has designed a high-speed magnetic 7



## levitation transport, and it's dubbed "high 8



## rail," to be solar-powered, hydrogen-fueled, and 9



## to transport passengers and freight across the 10



## country from coast to coast at a very high speed. 11



## Clearly, this alone would contribute a lot 12



## towards fulfilling the commendable objectives of 13



## President Obama and the EPA in reducing carbon 14



## emissions, because if you are doing all this with 15



## solar power and hydrogen fuel, clearly it's good 16



## for the environment. 17



## But the focus today, I understand, is 18



## water pollution. So let me share this. High 19



## rail -- remember that term, our kind of short 20



## name -- high rail's ability to generate pure 21



## water from saltwater, rivers, and contaminated 22182



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## water along highways can do that, if we ever get 1



## it built. The high rail technology would produce 2



## pure hydrogen, pure water, be a net producer of 3



## electricity and store energy. What's not to 4



## like? 5



## Further, the ability of the Hydrogen 6



## Super Highway, as we dub it, to reduce greenhouse 7



## emissions is unsurpassed. Cities that are now 8



## choked with harmful smog could breathe easier as 9



## the skies begin to clear when existing internal 10



## combustion engines switch over to hydrogen 11



## produced by the rays of the sun. 12



## Further, the ability of the system to 13



## process waste -- think, to process waste -- will 14



## enable a supply of hydroponic-grade agricultural 15



## irrigation on a massive scale, which in itself 16



## could produce edible crops, fuel-grade crops, and 17



## the only problem we have really to overcome yet 18



## is to get the funding to build a physical 19



## prototype. Probably do it in Michigan, but I'd 20



## love to do it in the Commonwealth of Virginia. 21



## We just got to get the funding, and then we will 22183



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## start moving towards establishing a form of 1



## public-private partnerships to finance the 2



## country -- to finance the transportation from 3



## coast to coast, paralleling the Eisenhower 4



## Interstate Highway System. 5



## And that's what I wanted to introduce. 6



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 7



## Brendan Cline? 8



## MR. CLINE: Hi. Thank you for providing 9



## this opportunity for the public to comment on the 10



## proposed pretreatment standards. I am a resident 11



## of Washington, D.C., and my family lives in 12



## Massachusetts. I speak today in support of the 13



## regulation. 14



## MR. STRASSLER: Get a little closer to 15



## the mic. 16



## MR. CLINE: Oh, sure. Mm-hmm. 17



## So while nearly four out of five 18



## coal-fired power plants in the U.S. have no 19



## limits on the amount of toxins they're allowed to 20



## discharge into surface water, every one of the 26 21



## coal plants in Virginia, Maryland, and 22184



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Massachusetts operate with no limit. Many of 1



## these plants do not even monitor how much they 2



## discharge, and some discharge into water bodies 3



## that have been designated as having impaired 4



## water quality. 5



## The Proposed Rule helps correct these 6



## issues. Limiting the amount of toxic discharges 7



## will save lives, prevent illnesses, and protect 8



## freshwater ecosystems. The benefit and cost 9



## analysis estimates that the rule will produce 10



## hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of public 11



## health benefits based only on the quantifiable 12



## subset of potential health benefits. These 13



## benefits are large, even without consideration of 14



## significant effects from arsenic, mercury, lead, 15



## and other toxics subject to the ELGs. The rule 16



## will also have a number of secondary health 17



## benefits as well. 18



## By internalizing the externality costs of 19



## the power plants' wastewater, a fraction of 1 20



## percent of electricity generation will switch to 21



## cleaner energy sources. Under Option 3 in the 22185



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## plan, this will reduce CO 2 

## emissions by as much as 1



## taking roughly 300,000 cars off the road, as many 2



## as Washington, D.C., or Boston has. 3



## Option 4 would reduce about double that 4



## amount of CO 2 

## emissions, which is equivalent to 5



## all the registered cars in both cities combined. 6



## It should be noted also that the benefit 7



## and cost analysis uses the Interagency Working 8



## Group on Social Cost of Carbon’s 2010 estimates, 9



## which were also updated a month after that 10



## analysis came out. So the new Social Cost of 11



## Carbon estimates are about 60 percent higher than 12



## before, and when this is taken into account, the 13



## total monetized benefits will be about 5 or 10 14



## percent higher. And I think that's worth noting, 15



## if someone hasn't already. 16



## And for these reasons, I support EPA's 17



## choice of Option 3 or 4 for the steam electric 18



## ELG. 19



## Thank you. 20



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 21



## Theresa Pugh? 22186



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MS. PUGH: Thank you very much for 1



## allowing me to speak. I am Theresa Pugh. I am 2



## with the American Public Power Association. It's 3



## an association representing approximately 16 4



## percent of the electric power utilities in the 5



## United States, or about 46 million Americans. 6



## These utilities are in 49 of 50 states, all but 7



## Hawaii. As a matter of fact, they are also in 8



## U.S. Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, 9



## and about 700 of our 2,000 members have drinking 10



## water utilities. So water issues matter a lot to 11



## us. 12



## I just wanted, before addressing a couple 13



## of things, make the observation. There's been 14



## perhaps a false impression left by some of the 15



## witnesses that the electric generation sector has 16



## not been regulated for effluent guidelines, when 17



## a person said not since the 19th century have 18



## there been any regulations. Someone else said 19



## there are not effluent guideline requirements or 20



## that we oppose them. At least my organization 21



## does not oppose effluent guideline revisions. We 22187



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## fully recognize we were up at the plate after you 1



## all did your Section, I think, 302 reviews 2



## earlier in the decade, and this has not been 3



## opposed by, to my knowledge, the industry, but 4



## the manner in which the regulations would take 5



## place matter to us greatly. 6



## We are a bit disappointed that there was 7



## not a SBREFA review. We would have liked one. 8



## There was a very fine effort initiated by EPA to 9



## extend an invitation for mayors to come in and 10



## meet on unfunded mandates. Unfortunately, the 11



## meeting was never completed. We would have liked 12



## to have seen that meeting with mayors completed. 13



## Mayors, too, want good drinking water, but the 14



## mayors were concerned about the impacts on both 15



## the electric and the water side of the house. 16



## And it would have been far preferable that both 17



## the SBREFA panel and the UMRA panels -- and the 18



## UMRA panel is new to me, but it would have been 19



## preferable that that would have been completed 20



## before the actual proposal of the rule. 21



## We have not yet determined which of the 22188



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## eight options or even hybrid of options would be 1



## best, but I do have a couple of recommendations. 2



## APPA would really like to see that the 3



## Final Rule give some ability for regulatory 4



## determinations based on both feasibility, life of 5



## the plant, expected life of the plant, because we 6



## are in a time of tremendous transition. We have 7



## already seen a lot of coal-fired power plants 8



## retire. I think, to be honest, we don't know how 9



## many more will retire or will remain in full 10



## operation for perhaps decades to come, but I 11



## think there needs to be some accommodation to 12



## understand that the useful life at every power 13



## plant is not the same useful life as the power 14



## plant next door. 15



## I think that the physical space is a 16



## critical issue because all of the technologies 17



## that EPA is looking at require physical space. 18



## I was at one power plant that had a ZLD. 19



## The ZLD building took approximately the size of 20



## this room, and it was three stories tall. Not 21



## all power plants have that large of a -- excuse 22189



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## me -- not all power plants have that large of a 1



## physical space available to be used. We'd very 2



## much appreciate it if you'd consider that. 3



## Finally, APPA would very much be pleased 4



## to work with the EPA on this rulemaking and 5



## others, and we are very glad that you gave us the 6



## extension of 45 days. 7



## Thank you so much. 8



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 9



## Kristy Bulleit? 10



## MS. BULLEIT: Good afternoon. My name is 11



## Kristy Bulleit, and I appreciate the chance to 12



## speak today on behalf of the Utility Water Act 13



## Group, or UWAG. 14



## UWAG consists of 197 energy companies and 15



## 3 national trade associations of energy 16



## companies, and UWAG's members operate the power 17



## plants and other facilities that generate, 18



## transmit, and distribute electricity to 19



## residential, commercial, and institutional 20



## customers nationwide. It is UWAG's members whose 21



## facilities are subject to the existing steam 22190



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## electric guidelines as well as to site-specific 1



## and state-specific water quality standards and 2



## that will be subject to any new technology-based 3



## steam electric guidelines that the agency 4



## ultimately finalizes. 5



## The proposed steam electric effluent 6



## guidelines rule would set very stringent 7



## performance standards that would force 8



## technological and operational changes at many 9



## existing coal-based, nuclear, and gas-based 10



## generation facilities, and it is critically 11



## important to the operations of UWAG's member 12



## facilities that the proposal be as technically 13



## accurate as the agency can make it and that it 14



## include achievable compliance standards as well 15



## as appropriate limits and deadlines. 16



## The rule should also -- and this is very 17



## important -- minimize cost to customers and be 18



## consistent with the industry's ongoing 19



## investments to transition to a cleaner generating 20



## fleet with an enhanced electric grid. 21



## I need to emphasize that my remarks today 22191



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## are preliminary. We're still in the process of 1



## looking through the over-2,600 documents that the 2



## agency has developed to support this proposal. 3



## We really appreciate the 45-day extension of the 4



## comment deadline that the agency recently 5



## granted, and we think that was an important step 6



## to make sure that everyone in the industry and 7



## outside has an opportunity to review and analyze 8



## the record. 9



## Our comments today do reflect, though, 10



## our -- just some preliminary observations on the 11



## Proposed Rule and its implications for the 12



## industry and our customers. 13



## First and foremost, I want to emphasize 14



## that it's so important that the agency ensure 15



## both reasonable limits and reasonable deadlines, 16



## recognizing the transition already underway in 17



## the utility industry. This rulemaking is 18



## occurring while many power plant operators are in 19



## the process of transitioning to meet new federal 20



## environmental standards of various kinds, 21



## including those under the Clean Air Act. And 22192



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## that transition includes extensive and expensive 1



## retrofits, retirement of some units, and fuel 2



## switching from coal to gas-based and renewable 3



## generation. We urge EPA to ensure that the ELG 4



## rule sets reasonable compliance limits and 5



## deadlines and take that ongoing transition into 6



## account. 7



## We look forward to working with EPA to 8



## develop a final rule that is technologically 9



## achievable, cost-effective, environmentally 10



## protective, and that minimizes economic impact 11



## and disruption on the industry and on our 12



## consumers. 13



## For example, because permitting and 14



## constructing new technologies is often -- 15



## demonstrably often a multiyear process that has 16



## to be phased in over time to allow for a reliable 17



## and efficient plant operation, the compliance 18



## deadlines alone have an enormous impact on the 19



## industry. All of these factors have to be 20



## considered when developing ELG rules and an 21



## implementation schedule. 22193



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## There are a few specifics that I'd like 1



## to talk about. These relate both to the 2



## pretreatment standards and to the other 3



## standards, which they mimic. 4



## One point that's been made today 5



## repeatedly is that -- has to do with existing 6



## loads as well as existing cost, both of which are 7



## relevant to the establishment of effluent limits. 8



## Based on our review to date, EPA has in some 9



## cases mischaracterized pollutant loadings from 10



## the utility industry. For example, for bottom 11



## ash, EPA is mixing very old data from previous 12



## steam electric guidelines with a very limited 13



## amount of current data, and an accurate 14



## characterization we think requires the agency to 15



## consider more up-to-date and more complete 16



## information. 17



## We also think the agency may have 18



## underestimated some pollutant removal cost per 19



## pound, and our preliminary calculations suggest 20



## that EPA's estimates of removing a toxic-weighted 21



## pound equivalent are significantly underestimated 22194



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## for a number of waste streams, including bottom 1



## ash and fly ash. As a result, your cost 2



## effectiveness analysis will probably need to be 3



## revisited, we believe. 4



## It's very important to coordinate this 5



## rule with the CCR rule, which other witnesses 6



## have mentioned. Facilities are going to be 7



## subject to the new ELG requirements and in the 8



## same general time frame a new CCR rule under 9



## RCRA. EPA itself has recognized the importance 10



## of ensuring that the two parallel rulemakings 11



## don't impose inconsistent or duplicative 12



## requirements, and we agree that it makes no sense 13



## for a facility to undertake significant design 14



## and operational changes under ELG rule, only to 15



## have those modifications negated by the CCR rule. 16



## Two last points; one, specifically on 17



## pretreatment standards. EPA's pass-through 18



## analysis, we think is flawed, mostly because EPA 19



## used POTW removal efficiencies from the 1982 20



## study of 50 well-operated POTWs, and since then, 21



## there has been a great increase in the number of 22195



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## people served by advanced wastewater treatment, 1



## which has far greater treatment efficiency. 2



## So, for example, EPA used a 66 percent 3



## removal efficiency for arsenic; whereas, the 1998 4



## development document for the Centralized Waste 5



## Treatment Category found that the arsenic removal 6



## efficiency of a well-operated POTW is 91 percent. 7



## It may sound trivial, but it goes to the heart 8



## and soul of what the pretreatment standard should 9



## require. 10



## So I'll close, having gone over my time 11



## by 2 1/2 minutes and probably more by the time 12



## I'm done, by just urging EPA to ensure that the 13



## effluent guidelines rule contains achievable 14



## compliance limits and reasonable deadlines. 15



## We look forward to working with you on an 16



## ongoing basis to achieve that goal. 17



## Over the last 27 years, we have, as you 18



## know, provided lots and lots of data to the 19



## agency with the goal of assuring a technically 20



## accurate and reasonable rule, and that's more 21



## critical than ever as we transition the existing 22196



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## fleet on an ongoing basis. 1



## Thanks very much. 2



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 3



## Amy Allen? 4



## [No audible response.] 5



## MR. STRASSLER: Ariel Soloski? 6



## MS. SOLOSKI: Good afternoon, and thank 7



## you for the opportunity to submit comments on 8



## EPA's Proposed Rule to set national discharge 9



## standards for the steam electric generating point 10



## source category. 11



## My name is Ariel Soloski, and I am 12



## submitting these remarks on behalf of Jennifer 13



## Duggan with the Environmental Integrity Project. 14



## Power plants are by far the largest 15



## dischargers of toxic pollution in the U.S., 16



## dumping billions of pounds of pollution into our 17



## rivers, streams, and lakes each year. While EPA 18



## has called this hearing specifically on the 19



## pretreatment part of its proposal, EPA must 20



## listen more broadly, since the vast majority of 21



## power plants don't use public water treatment 22197



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## facilities. 1



## I would like to make three points today. 2



## First, without strong federal standards, 3



## permitting agencies routinely ignore the law and 4



## allow power plants to discharge unlimited amounts 5



## of toxic pollution. For the past 30 years, EPA 6



## has failed to review and revise national 7



## discharge standards for coal-fired power plants, 8



## as required by the Clean Water act. 9



## Nearly 70 percent of coal plants that 10



## dump coal ash and scrubber wastewater into our 11



## waters have no limits on arsenic, boron, cadmium, 12



## lead, mercury, and selenium. Only a little over 13



## half of these plants are required to monitor and 14



## report discharges of this pollution. 15



## For the past 30 years, states have 16



## effectively allowed coal plants to use our 17



## rivers, streams, and lakes as their own private 18



## dumping grounds. 19



## Second, the failure to control toxic 20



## pollution from power plants wreaks ecological 21



## havoc in our watersheds and puts downstream 22198



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## communities in harm's way. EPA has identified 1



## 250 instances where power plants have damaged 2



## ground or surface waters with arsenic, selenium, 3



## and other heavy metals. Tens of thousands of 4



## miles of our rivers have been poisoned, 5



## compromising the health of the environment and 6



## anyone who fishes and swims in these waters. 7



## Third, this is a problem with a solution. 8



## The good news is that EPA has made clear that 9



## affordable wastewater treatment technologies are 10



## available to clean up these dangerous discharges. 11



## Options 5 and 4 in EPA's Proposed Rule 12



## would require the elimination of the majority of 13



## coal plant water pollution using technologies 14



## that are available and cost effective. 15



## The coal industry can easily afford these 16



## controls. EPA estimates that ending toxic 17



## dumping from coal plants would cost less than 1 18



## percent of annual revenue for most coal plant 19



## operators and just pennies a day for ordinary 20



## Americans if the utilities pass some of the 21



## cleanup cost to consumers. 22199



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## EPA can no longer ignore the unchecked 1



## dumping of billions of pounds of pollution into 2



## our waters. Americans deserve, and the Clean 3



## Water Act demands, that EPA end decades of toxic 4



## dumping and require the affordable and available 5



## treatment technologies proposed in Option 5 to 6



## eliminate the majority of these dangerous 7



## discharges. 8



## Thank you for the consideration of our 9



## comments. 10



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 11



## Lih Young? 12



## DR. YOUNG: Good afternoon. My name is 13



## Lih Young. I am a Ph.D. economist in -- 14



## MR. STRASSLER: Could you please the 15



## microphone -- speak into the microphone, please? 16



## Yeah. Thank you. 17



## DR. YOUNG: Okay. 18



## My name is Lih Young. I am a Ph.D. 19



## economist by training. I am here to join other 20



## civic groups to support the clean water, clean 21



## air, and other plans that EPA would take to 22200



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## reduce significantly harmful pollution or global 1



## warming from power plants and petroleum 2



## refineries, et cetera, to improve government 3



## function, and to protect people, families, and 4



## the communities from such harmful damages. My 5



## reasons are stated below. 6



## First, the harmful pollution affect 7



## people's health, productivity, medical 8



## expenditure, individual, family, and social lives 9



## from both private and social cost benefit point 10



## of view. Power plants and refineries are 11



## producing carbon pollutions which are harmful for 12



## people in communities. Our taxpayers and general 13



## public have to pay that cost. 14



## Further, adverse impacts, unfairness, 15



## irresponsibility, unfair election, and market 16



## mechanism, and unjust influence of corporation 17



## entities or networks cause serious social, 18



## political problems and, thus, cost our society 19



## tremendously. 20



## To help you understand the social 21



## problem, as I have identified and my family has 22201



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## experienced. So this attachment, this testimony 1



## will be submitted. 2



## I am urging (indiscernible) -- I have run 3



## for public offices from local to federal since 4



## 1994, including U.S. Senate in Maryland State 5



## Comptroller. 6



## Second, social justice is in great 7



## danger, work to be done, promote the fairness, 8



## freedom, justice, peace, humility, productivity, 9



## well-being of general public, resolve, social, 10



## political issues, and balancing the budget, 11



## oppose so-called "fair election act," and public 12



## finance much in small donors from -- do more -- 13



## which do more harm than good, resource benefit, 14



## what I call "beggar." 15



## So something like EPA can have -- provide 16



## leadership, but be careful. We are not just 17



## talking rhetoric, and we are not just talking 18



## about have appropriation or fund and then divert 19



## the resource to benefit a few. That is why now 20



## we have a social problem. 21



## So I urge you to official -- legislators 22202



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## to resolve. Really, this system is murder for 1



## all crime injustice system, and complaint issues 2



## are ultimately complaint and finance in 3



## practically every agency and contractors and 4



## prosecutors of injustice network operation and 5



## just practices, their abuse ways rather been 6



## misled, manipulated and inference by them and 7



## benefit them. We ought to improve government 8



## function, resolve complaint issues, protect 9



## people, family, business, and the communities 10



## from harmful damage on health, productivity, 11



## activities, and lives -- I really mean lives and 12



## medical expenditure from private and social point 13



## of view. 14



## So I have submitted a long statement, and 15



## I am sure my time is limited. So I would like 16



## you to read it, close look at this, and I have 17



## attachment of -- six attachments. So, please, 18



## it's very important. We depend on you. 19



## Thank you. 20



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 21



## Earle Mitchell? 22203



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## [No audible response.] 1



## MR. STRASSLER: John Brockhouse? 2



## [No audible response.] 3



## MR. STRASSLER: No. 4



## Shilpa Shenvi? 5



## MS. SHENVI: Good afternoon, and thank 6



## you for your time. 7



## In preparation to speak here today, I 8



## tried to research how long a person can survive 9



## without water. The answers vary, but the most 10



## common number that came up was 3 days. These 11



## numbers are, of course, from reported cases. Not 12



## one of us in this room would ever consider the 13



## idea of an experiment to determine the length of 14



## a waterless survival. It would be inhumane. It 15



## would mean knowingly killing people. 16



## Clearly, we all agree that uncontaminated 17



## drinking water is essential to human life, to 18



## human survival, so I applaud the decision to 19



## tighten our water regulations. However, I 20



## strongly urge the EPA to set zero discharge 21



## standards as well as aggressively treat heavy 22204



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## metals in wastewater. 1



## Many of the pollutants in our waterways 2



## are heavy metals. Over half of these heavy 3



## metals originate at steam electric power 4



## generating facilities. Despite current 5



## regulations, these toxins make their way into our 6



## drinking water at high enough concentrations to 7



## cause widespread health problems. Arsenic can 8



## cause skin, lung, and liver cancer. Selenium can 9



## cause the nerve damage while uranium can lead to 10



## kidney malfunction. 11



## As with all pollutants, children are 12



## especially vulnerable to the toxins released by 13



## steam electric power generating plants. Children 14



## are much smaller than adults, so they consume 15



## more water per unit of body weight. As a result, 16



## they will have higher concentrations of toxins in 17



## their blood than will adults in the same 18



## environment. 19



## Furthermore, a child's brain and nervous 20



## system are still developing. Damage caused 21



## either in utero or in early childhood results in 22205



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## lifelong neurological problems. Mercury and lead 1



## in particular are known to cause birth defects 2



## and lowered IQs in children who either drink 3



## tainted water themselves or whose mothers 4



## unknowingly consumed these contaminants while 5



## pregnant. 6



## Again, I commend the decision to tighten 7



## regulations, but we need to take every step we 8



## can to stop any pollutant from entering our 9



## drinking supply. 10



## So, again, I strongly urge the EPA to set 11



## zero discharge standards and aggressive heavy 12



## metal treatment standards. We know that lifelong 13



## damage and terminal illnesses results from these 14



## toxins. Learning several years from now that our 15



## measures are insufficient would be like running 16



## an inhumane experiment. None of us can opt to 17



## not drink water. No one should risk a lifelong 18



## illness or slow death in the pursuit of something 19



## essential to human life. 20



## Thank you. 21



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 22206



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## Stan Boyd? 1



## MR. BOYD: Good afternoon. I really 2



## appreciate the fact that you are holding this 3



## public hearing so that we can talk about the 4



## options that you've introduced. 5



## I became interested in conservation with 6



## Rachel Carson's book "Silent Spring," and that 7



## seemed to lead to the founding of EPA in 1970 and 8



## then the passage of the Clean Water Act in 1972, 9



## which stated as a goal that it would eliminate 10



## all water pollution by 1985. Well, that's quite 11



## an ambitious goal, and we see it certainly wasn't 12



## met. In fact, I seemed to have learned a lot 13



## today that things are far worse than I ever 14



## imagined. 15



## In fact, I don't think most Americans 16



## have even a clue that the EPA is not successfully 17



## regulating the environment to their best ability 18



## and reducing pollution in water, and I was 19



## surprised that 70 to 80 percent of coal plants 20



## have no limits on the amount of pollutants they 21



## put in the water. I think most Americans would 22207



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## be shocked by that, even those who have been 1



## active politically, as I have. 2



## But I am happy that we have the data now 3



## that's collected, even if it took 30 years, and 4



## we have the technology to actually move forward 5



## on this, and I want to thank you for proposing 6



## the new rule for cleaning up toxic water 7



## pollution from coal-fired power plants. 8



## I am particularly happy to learn that the 9



## EPA has the authority to protect the water from 10



## toxic coal waste. It's just a matter of moving 11



## forward and doing it. Of course, I know there 12



## are many people who are not -- well, let me first 13



## say I didn't hear any person here today speak out 14



## in opposition to having clean water, and I think 15



## all Americans want clean water, but there are 16



## economic interests, the coal industry 17



## particularly, that would be greatly hurt by some 18



## regulations. And so I just am urging you, please 19



## do what the EPA was set to do, which is protect 20



## our water for the public good and not be too 21



## influenced by arguments that this would be 22208



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## economically damaging or we have to delay 1



## further, even though it's taken 30 years to get 2



## to this point. 3



## The American people count on the action 4



## of the EPA. We can't expect much from our 5



## Congress right now, and it is through regulation 6



## that we can really make the most progress. 7



## So I would say please see the power 8



## plants install zero liquid discharge technology 9



## and implement Options 4 and 5 because the weakest 10



## option would only control 468 million pounds of 11



## pollution a year, while the strongest Option 4 12



## and 5 would control 5.3 billion pounds of 13



## pollution per year. 14



## Thank you very much for listening and 15



## taking all this public input today. 16



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 17



## Cindy Olson? 18



## MS. OLSON: I know everyone has said it, 19



## but I thank you very much for taking public 20



## input. It's very important in our process. 21



## Sadly, even though the earth is covered 22209



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## in water, much of it has become unusable because 1



## of human pollution due to human activities, 2



## especially from particular industries. Water is 3



## considered polluted when its contamination is at 4



## the point that is unfit for use. 5



## If water is polluted, you can’t drink it, 6



## you can't swim in it, and you can't eat fish out 7



## of it, as well as affecting all the wildlife that 8



## depends on the polluted water. They also become 9



## at risk. 10



## It's also important to understand how 11



## water gets polluted. The toxins that power 12



## plants have been putting into the water system 13



## are incredible in some ways, because they are 14



## such huge polluters. According to your own 15



## statistics, more than half of the toxic 16



## pollutants discharged into surface, our drinking 17



## and our swimming water, are from these plants. 18



## We need to have zero discharge now. I 19



## think 30 years has been long enough. We can't 20



## actually allow these companies to continue 21



## dumping toxins into unlined pools simply because 22210



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## it goes into the groundwater, and groundwater 1



## exists between the surface, obviously, and that 2



## actually supposedly stays on an average of 1,400 3



## years. 4



## So, basically, dilution has not been the 5



## solution, even if we're saying let's just put it 6



## in a pond next to the -- you know, it will be 7



## okay. You know, I've been to the Berkeley Pit, 8



## and I don't know. I think they have to shoot 9



## things off of it. 10



## Anyways, the strongest rules that need to 11



## become regulation, simply because there is no 12



## reason not to regulate, and we really need to 13



## save, obviously, our greatest resource, which is 14



## our water. 15



## Today's technology actually are very cost 16



## effective, and they clean the toxins out of the 17



## water quite well. Past regulations actually have 18



## helped American businesses become much more 19



## competitive, and as a member of a small business, 20



## I want to have you look maybe at a different way 21



## of understanding how the economy actually works. 22211



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## If we as leaders of the world basically 1



## want our companies to be as credibly competitive, 2



## we need to actually put in regulation so the 3



## actual innovation can come forward. 4



## So I know that there's pressures to say 5



## otherwise, but what I would say is if you 6



## regulate, companies are not going to be affected 7



## in any detrimental way. In fact, we will 8



## continue to have our technology grow, and we will 9



## be able to export that to other parts of the 10



## world that are in actual need of this technology. 11



## So I know that zero discharge policy, you 12



## know the Options 4 and 5 have been discussed, but 13



## I want you to understand that private companies 14



## are going to be innovating, and we will actually 15



## have a competitive advantage. 16



## Thank you very much. 17



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 18



## Brenna Muller, did you -- you wanted to 19



## testify? Different statement? 20



## MS. MULLER: This is my own this time. 21



## MR. STRASSLER: Okay. 22212



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## MS. MULLER: Okay, thank you. So my name 1



## is Brenna Muller. 2



## Even though this EPA hearing is 3



## specifically on the pretreatment part of the 4



## proposed water pollution standards, I will speak 5



## more broadly about the importance of the proposed 6



## steam electric effluent guidelines rule. 7



## With the passage of the Clean Water Act 8



## of 1972, Congress set a national goal to ensure 9



## clean water for all Americans; however, we are 10



## long overdue in dealing with toxic water 11



## pollution from power plants. 12



## Coal-fired power plants are the largest 13



## source of toxic water pollution in the United 14



## States, dumping billions of pounds of pollution 15



## into America's rivers, streams, and lakes each 16



## year. These pollutants, including lead and 17



## mercury, can be dangerous to humans and wreak 18



## havoc in our watersheds, even in very small 19



## amounts. 20



## EPA has identified over 250 individual 21



## instances where coal plants have harmed ground or 22213



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## surface water. Because many coal plants sit on 1



## recreational lakes and reservoirs, are upstream 2



## of drinking water supplies, those thousands of 3



## miles of poisoned waters have an impact on people 4



## across the country. Coal water pollution raises 5



## cancer rates, makes fish unsafe to eat, and can 6



## inflict lasting health problems on our children. 7



## Power plants should be required to adopt 8



## the best available technology to reduce the most 9



## amount of pollution. The technology exists and 10



## is already in use in some plants. There's no 11



## reason for power plants to continue dumping 12



## arsenic, lead, selenium, mercury, and other toxic 13



## pollutants in our water. 14



## While I applaud EPA's proposal to deal 15



## with this important water pollution problem, only 16



## two of the proposed options, Options 4 and 5, 17



## would begin to fix this problem, and some of the 18



## weakest options proposed are completely 19



## unacceptable. A strong rule would create 20



## hundreds of dollars in benefits every year in the 21



## form of improved health and recreational 22214



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## opportunities, not to mention the priceless 1



## benefits of clean and healthy watersheds. 2



## Unless EPA acts, this problem is only 3



## going to get worse, as more power plants install 4



## air pollution control scrubbers that essentially 5



## take toxics out of the air and dump them in our 6



## water. By the agency's own estimate, this toxic 7



## wastewater stream is going to increase by 28 8



## percent over the next 15 years. 9



## There is no reason to tolerate continued 10



## dumping, and the Clean Water Act mandates 11



## cleanup. We can eliminate most, if not all, coal 12



## plant water pollutions for pennies a day. The 13



## strongest of EPA's proposed options will get us 14



## to that future. So I strongly encourage the EPA 15



## to finalize a strong rule to clean up America's 16



## waterways. 17



## Thank you. 18



## MR. STRASSLER: Thank you. 19



## Those are all the speakers who have 20



## registered up front or at the table. Is there 21



## anybody else who we missed or wants to testify? 22215



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

## [No audible response.] 1



## MR. STRASSLER: Okay. Well, thank you 2



## for coming today. All testimony will be in the 3



## record, available at regulations.gov. It will be 4



## in the record for the Final Rule, and any other 5



## announcements, we will put on our website. 6



## Thank you. 7



## [Whereupon, at 5:15 p.m., the 8



## Pretreatment Public Hearing concluded.] 9

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22216



### OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376 Toll Free: 888-445-3376 1

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