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74–092 2012

OVERSIGHT OF CEMETERIES AND OTHER 

FUNERAL SERVICES: WHO’S IN CHARGE? 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, TRADE, 

AND CONSUMER PROTECTION 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND 

COMMERCE 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

JULY 27, 2009 

Serial No. 111–59 

( 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce 

energycommerce.house.gov 


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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE 

HENRY A. WAXMAN, California, Chairman 

JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan 

Chairman Emeritus 

EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts 

RICK BOUCHER, Virginia 

FRANK PALLONE, JR., New Jersey 

BART GORDON, Tennessee 

BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois 

ANNA G. ESHOO, California 

BART STUPAK, Michigan 

ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York 

GENE GREEN, Texas 

DIANA DEGETTE, Colorado 

Vice Chairman 

LOIS CAPPS, California 

MICHAEL F. DOYLE, Pennsylvania 

JANE HARMAN, California 

TOM ALLEN, Maine 

JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois 

CHARLES A. GONZALEZ, Texas 

JAY INSLEE, Washington 

TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin 

MIKE ROSS, Arkansas 

ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York 

JIM MATHESON, Utah 

G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina 

CHARLIE MELANCON, Louisiana 

JOHN BARROW, Georgia 

BARON P. HILL, Indiana 

DORIS O. MATSUI, California 

DONNA CHRISTENSEN, Virgin Islands 

KATHY CASTOR, Florida 

JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland 

CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut 

ZACHARY T. SPACE, Ohio 

JERRY MCNERNEY, California 

BETTY SUTTON, Ohio 

BRUCE L. BRALEY, Iowa 

PETER L. WELCH, Vermont 

JOE BARTON, Texas 

Ranking Member 

RALPH M. HALL, Texas 

FRED UPTON, Michigan 

CLIFF STEARNS, Florida 

NATHAN DEAL, Georgia 

ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky 

JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois 

JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona 

ROY BLUNT, Missouri 

STEVE BUYER, Indiana 

GEORGE RADANOVICH, California 

JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania 

MARY BONO MACK, California 

GREG WALDEN, Oregon 

LEE TERRY, Nebraska 

MIKE ROGERS, Michigan 

SUE WILKINS MYRICK, North Carolina 

JOHN SULLIVAN, Oklahoma 

TIM MURPHY, Pennsylvania 

MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas 

MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee 

PHIL GINGREY, Georgia 

STEVE SCALISE, Louisiana 

(II) 


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SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, TRADE, AND CONSUMER PROTECTION

BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois 

Chairman 

JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois 

Vice Chair 

JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland 

BETTY SUTTON, Ohio 

FRANK PALLONE Jr., New Jersey 

BART GORDON, Tennessee 

BART STUPAK, Michigan 

GENE GREEN, Texas 

CHARLES A. GONZALEZ, Texas 

ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York 

JIM MATHESON, Utah 

G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina 

JOHN BARROW, Georgia 

DORIS O. MATSUI, California 

KATHY CASTOR, Florida 

ZACHARY T. SPACE, Ohio 

BRUCE L. BRALEY, Iowa 

DIANA DEGETTE, Colorado 

JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan (ex officio) 

CLIFF STEARNS, Florida 

Ranking Member 

RALPH M. HALL, Texas 

ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky 

GEORGE RADANOVICH, California 

JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania 

MARY BONO MACK, California 

LEE TERRY, Nebraska 

MIKE ROGERS, Michigan 

SUE WILKINS MYRICK, North Carolina 

MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas 


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C O N T E N T S 

Page 

Hon. Bobby L. Rush, a Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 1 

Hon. Janice D. Schakowsky, a Representative in Congress from the State 

of Illinois, opening statement .............................................................................. 4 

Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the State of 

Illinois, opening statement .................................................................................. 5 

Hon. G.K. Butterfield, a Representative in Congress from the State of North 

Carolina, opening statement ............................................................................... 6 

Hon. Steve Cohen, a Representative in Congress from the State of Tennessee, 

opening statement ................................................................................................ 7 

WITNESSES

Don E. Grayson, Sr., great-grandson of Dinah Washington, family member 

of individuals buried at Burr Oak Cemetery ..................................................... 9 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 11 

Dwight Robinson, family member of individuals buried at Burr Oak Cemetery ........................................................................................................................ 13

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 15 

Roxie Williams, family member of individuals buried at Burr Oak Cemetery .. 16 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 18 

Jesse L. Jackson, Sr., Founder and President, Rainbowpush Coalition, Inc. ..... 22 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 24 

Charles Harwood, Deputy Director, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Federal 

Trade Commission ............................................................................................... 34 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 36 

Daniel W. Hynes, Illinois State Comptroller, Office of the Comptroller ............. 44 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 47 

Joshua Slocum, Executive Director, Funeral Consumer Alliance ....................... 50 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 53 

Harvey Lapin, General Counsel, Illinois Cemetery and Funeral Home Association .................................................................................................................... 63 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 65 

Spencer Leak, Jr., Leak and Sons Funeral Home ................................................ 81 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 82 

SUBMITTED MATERIAL

Statement of International Cemetery, Cremation and Funeral Association ...... 93 

Statement of National Funeral Directors Association .......................................... 113 

Statement of Thomas J. Dart, Cook County Sheriff ............................................. 115 


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OVERSIGHT OF CEMETERIES AND OTHER 

FUNERAL SERVICES: WHO’S IN CHARGE? 

MONDAY, JULY 27, 2009 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, TRADE, AND CONSUMER PROTECTION, COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE, Washington, DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:45 a.m., at the 

Everett M. Dirksen U.S. Courthouse, Room 2525, 219 South Dearborn Street, Chicago, Illinois, Hon. Bobby L. Rush [chairman of the 

subcommittee] Presiding. 

Present: Representatives Rush, Schakowsky, and Butterfield. 

Also Present: Representatives Davis, Cohen, Jackson of Illinois. 

Staff Present: Michelle Ash, Chief Counsel, Subcommittee; Anna 

Laitin, Professional Staff Member; Timothy Robinson, Counsel; 

Will Cusey, Special Assistant. 

Representative Rush’s Office: Barbara Holt, District Director; 

Younus Suleman, Deputy Director; Thyatiria Towns, District Programs Coordinator; Kathryn English, Office Coordinator; Lalique 

Bearden, Receptionist and Systems Specialist; Zephranie Buetow, 

Intern; and Stephanie Gadlin, Press Secretary. 

Representative Schakowsky’s Office: Ann Limjoco, Suburban Director. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BOBBY L. RUSH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS 

Mr. RUSH. Good morning. Can you hear me? Is the mics on? The 

mics are on? 

First of all, I’d like to welcome each and every one of you who 

are present to this Subcommittee hearing entitled, ‘‘Oversight of 

Cemeteries and Other Funeral Services: Who’s in Charge?’’ 

Before we begin, I want to thank the chief judge of the U.S. District Court of the Northern District of Illinois, Judge James F. 

Holderman, for his hospitality in allowing us, the members of Congress, to use this hearing room, this courtroom for this particular 

hearing. And I’d also like to thank the distinguished gentleman 

from Israel, Judge Irana (phonetic), for being here with us today 

to observe this hearing, and his comment to me was that, in Israel, 

in his country, a hearing would not take place in a facility such as 

this, in that the distinguishing characteristics of the legislature 

and the judicial body never allows this type of interaction. And, so, 

he’s amazed, and we certainly are grateful for him for taking the 

time out to observe this particular hearing. 


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I’d like to welcome all of you to this Subcommittee Field Hearing 

on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection. I invited a number 

of Congressional members, because I strongly suspect that what 

happened at the Burr Oak Cemetery in Alsip, Illinois is not an aberration. And, with that in mind, I’ll yield myself five minutes for 

opening comments. 

If the horrible crimes that were committed at Burr Oak can happen in our district and our city and our state, and even in our nation, they can happen almost anywhere in our beloved country. At 

a time like this, we especially need to hear from the citizens we 

represent, and they need to hear from us, and that’s why I thought 

it would be best that we would bring your federal government from 

Washington, D.C. home to Chicago, to directly hear from the citizens in this community whose lives have been shaken and altered 

by their horrifying revelations concerning Burr Oak Cemetery. 

I generally hope that the extraordinary and extremely disturbing 

and distressful revelation at Burr Oak can bring better attention 

to the problems in cemeteries all across this nation. The stories of 

mass upheavals of sacred grave plots and the desecration of remains at Burr Oak, Menorah Park, in Palm Beach, Florida, and at 

Tri-State Crematory in northern Georgia are just a few, and they 

should not vanish into thin air after dominating the news for a few 

days. 

Cemeteries and crematories should not be allowed to continue to 

abuse grieved customers through fraudulent, shoddy, and sloppy 

business practices. I’ve heard from hundreds of constituents, including Ms. Debra Charles. Her father was former heavyweight 

world boxing champion, Ezzard Charles, was buried at Burr Oak, 

along with her mother. Ms. Charles said that the hearing about 

Burr Oak—but, after hearing about Burr Oak, it re-opened old 

wounds of pain and loss, and that she felt she actually reburied her 

parents all over again. Another of my constituents, Mr. Tony 

Burless, a professional genealogist whose two great aunts were 

buried at Burr Oak, points out that Burr Oak was probably the 

first African American-owned cemetery in the Chicago area. According to Mr. Burless, in February of 1927, an armed posse of 75 

whites interrupted a burial at Burr Oaks, arguing that African 

Americans could not be buried on the premises. Ultimately, the 

burial was permitted to proceed under the protection of police 

guards. This historic landmark, the remains of those buried there, 

and their living loved ones deserves much better care than they are 

now receiving. 

When cemetery operators fail to keep accurate records of where 

the deceased have been laid to rest, families and loved ones are 

prevented from connecting to their past. It hurts families and shatters communities. When cemetery operators weave in and out of 

trust agreements to escape accountability and regulatory requirements, the quality of the service and upkeep of cemetery facilities 

is prone to decline to unacceptable levels. The moral fiber that 

shape our civilized society is forever torn asunder. The simple fact 

is that many consumers are unfamiliar with the sales practices of 

cemetery owners and operators because they provide once-in-a-lifetime goods and services. Lacking experience with funeral and burial sectors, these consumers cannot reasonably be expected to reVerDate Mar 15 2010 07:33 Aug 02, 2012 Jkt 074092 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\HR\OC\74092.XXX 74092

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spectfully negotiate prices, charges, and contractual terms applied 

to burial goods and to contracts and leases for land on graveyard 

property. 

I want to say to our witnesses, please listen closely to my following request. As eyewitnesses on the first panel tell us about 

their experiences with Burr Oak, as we talk about ways to better 

protect consumers of burial products and services, I would like for 

each one of you on the second panel to think and briefly answer 

the following question, when we open the floor to questions from 

members: Currently, there are no federal minimum standards for 

the operation of cemeteries. Do there need to be? If your answer 

is yes, then what are the best ways for us to work together to make 

this happen? 

With that said, I would ask for the Subcommittees’ unanimous 

consent that Representative Danny Davis, who I understand is on 

his way, Representative Daniel Lipinski, who also is on his way, 

Representative Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. of the 2nd Congressional District, and Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee’s—what district? 

Mr. COHEN. Ninth. 

Mr. RUSH [continuing]. Ninth Congressional District be allowed 

to make opening statements and participate in witness questioning 

during this hearing. And I would also like to note the presence of 

my good friend, Representative Jan Schakowsky, from the 9th District of Illinois, who serves as the Vice Chair of this Subcommittee, 

who is with us today. And I’m also grateful to the Honorable G.K. 

Butterfield, the representative from the 1st District of the great 

state of North Carolina, who is traveling here to spend time with 

us in our wonderful city. 

In addition, I would like to request a unanimous consent to any 

of the statements that are being submitted by families, loved ones, 

and friends of those buried at Burr Oak Cemetery in the record of 

today. This record shall remain open for 30 calendar days from 

today for the submission of said statements. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. No objection. 

Mr. RUSH. Without objection, we have unanimous consent request and their entirety are approved. Before I ask Vice Chairman, 

the Honorable Jan Schakowsky, to present her hearing statement, 

permit me to say that I’m elated to see so many local, state, and 

elected officials who also came out to be with us this morning, and 

I want to thank you for coming. I look forward to hearing the testimony from all the stated witnesses who are here today. Time does 

not permit all who would like to testify to do so. Again, all witness 

statements should be submitted within the next 30 days. 

In closing, my heart and prayers, as well as my condolences and 

prayers from my own family, go out to those whose families have 

been directly affected by the horrible actions performed at Burr 

Oak. May God bless you and keep you through these painful and 

challenging times. 

I would like, now, to recognize the gentlelady from Chicago, the 

Vice Chairman of this Subcommittee, our own representative, Jan 

Schakowsky, for five minutes, for the purposes of opening statements. 


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OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, A 

REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 

you for conducting this hearing. This is clearly a situation that 

cries out for a remedy. Think of the crying, the tears over the 

deathbeds that were shed at Burr Oak Cemetery as loved ones 

were put to rest, and then imagine the tears that were shed in 

finding out about the atrocities that occurred there for the loved 

ones who were thought to be in their final resting place. 

I heard from constituents, as well, particularly the Herd family, 

Beatrice Herd and her mother, Rose Herd. They contacted our office to inform us that they had multiple family members who were 

buried there, and that they were trying to find where the bodies 

were located. They went to the cemetery when the news unfolded 

and found that the graves of a son, a daughter, and mother were 

covered by a dumpster. They hadn’t been able to find out any information on the location of the children or the mother’s body, and our 

constituents told us that they have children and sisters and brothers and aunts and uncles who are all buried there. 

Several years ago, Mrs. Herd went to Burr Oak’s to order a headstone for her son and daughter and mother, and, while at the cemetery, a worker looked at the map and said, quote, Someone is buried on top of the others in that grave, unquote. And that day, Mrs. 

Herd went to see the manager, who said it wasn’t true; that the 

bodies were in separate graves. And to make matters worse, after 

the headstones were ordered, they were placed in a location that 

was not where the bodies were originally buried; they were placed 

on a road in the cemetery. When Mrs. Herd inquired with the manager, the manager said, ‘‘Oh, you’re mistaken. The bodies were buried by the road.’’ Mrs. Herd states that she knows where her children were buried, and that they were moved. She said, ‘‘I would 

never have buried my children where cars could roll over their 

grave.’’ 

I think the reason that the story has resonated with so many 

people is that there isn’t a family who hasn’t experienced a situation in a cemetery, at a funeral, visiting a grave. Is there anything 

that more deeply impacts families than this kind of situation, and 

can picture themselves at the burial site, remembering and putting 

flowers and tending a grave? And, as the Chairman has said, this 

is not a situation that’s unique. The Committee has been provided 

with examples of other places around the country where similar 

atrocities have occurred, so it’s not just a local or a state problem; 

it is a national issue. 

And, once again, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for bringing this to 

everyone’s attention so that we can, together, seek the appropriate 

remedy in the law. 

I yield back. 

Mr. RUSH. The Chairman thanks the gentlelady. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from the 7th Congressional—2nd Congressional District, the Honorable Jesse Jackson, 

Jr., for five minutes, for the purposes of statements. 


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OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JESSE JACKSON, JR., A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. Mr. Chairman, I’d like to keep my remarks unusually brief, but let me first begin by thanking you and 

the Vice Chairman of the Subcommittee, Jan Schakowsky, for holding this hearing. 

Like you, we’ve heard from hundreds of our constituents who 

have raised concerns about the quality of care at Burr Oak in light 

of the recent revelations. The horror is unspeakable, it’s 

unexplainable, and the events that occurred at Burr Oak Cemetery 

clearly have crossed the line of criminal behavior. 

Mr. Chairman, burial rituals are sacred in every major, and even 

minor, religion. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion. That freedom and fundamental right, through courts like this 

one, have been extended to include the womb. And from the unspeakable and unexplainable things that have occurred at Burr 

Oak Cemetery, the Committee should consider whether it should 

be extended to the tomb. A couple of ideas come to mind: An inventory of existing plots at cemeteries all across this country should 

be taken. And then, once those available plots are sold, cemeteries 

should be open for visitation and for maintenance only, and that 

does include the adequate maintenance or monitoring of trust 

funds, to ensure that cemeteries in perpetuity can have the quality 

of—and dignity associated with those who buy their final resting 

place. 

And, lastly, Mr. Chairman, I would argue that I hope that this 

Committee would consider, at the appropriate time, the idea that 

families who purchase plots should be deeded the land to the burial 

plot. That is, families who have plans that include monthly payments and insurance are entitled to a deed for the land that they 

have purchased for the purposes of their loved ones, recorded appropriately at the local level or whatever appropriate level, to ensure that their plots remain their land. 

And, so, Mr. Chairman, these are some of the ideas that we have 

heard from some of our constituents. I thank the Chairman for his 

time, and I want to offer, in a very special way, to not only my constituents but to all who find loved ones buried at Burr Oak, that 

this unspeakable tragedy, in part because of the lack of government oversight, has forced your families to look once again at very 

painful moments in your family’s history. The time that it takes to 

overcome having lost a loved one and to bury a loved one takes 

time, and for this unfortunate event to occur forces us back into the 

pain body, into a memory that we had thought we had long since 

overcome. No words can truly express how members of this panel 

feel for your families at this hour. My sincerest prayers and hopes 

are that this will never happen to your family or any other family 

again. 

I thank you, Chair. 

Mr. RUSH. Chair thanks the gentleman. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina, 

Mr. G.K. Butterfield, for five minutes, for the purposes of opening 

statements. 


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OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. G.K. BUTTERFIELD, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH 

CAROLINA 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Thank you, Chairman Rush and Vice Chair 

Schakowsky, for inviting us to your hometown of Chicago, Illinois. 

It’s great to be here. 

Also want to thank the many witnesses who are waiting in line 

to testify before us today. Thank you very much for coming, and 

thank you for your testimony. 

Mr. Chairman, as I’ve told you privately, I’ve wanted to come to 

Chicago this weekend to meet these families and hear these witnesses, but, also, wanted to have an opportunity to have dinner 

with my daughter last night, who lives here in Chicago. She moved 

to Chicago on the day that the First Family was leaving Chicago, 

on January 5th of this year. So it’s good to be here in Chicago 

for—— 

Mr. RUSH. Is she registered to vote yet? 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD [continuing]. An invi—pardon? 

Mr. RUSH. Did she register to vote yet? That’s all right, I—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. I think she might be in Danny Davis’s district, 

Mr. Chairman. But thank you for this gracious, gracious invitation. 

Mr. Chairman, after learning of the horrific acts that have taken 

place at Burr Oak Cemetery, I find this hearing to be one of the 

most important hearings that this Subcommittee has conducted in 

this session of Congress. As you know, Mr. Chairman, in my life 

before Congress, I was both a trial judge and a practicing attorney. 

As an attorney, I’ve represented several funeral homes and one 

cemetery. As a superior court judge of my state, I presided over 

many cases involving the occasional misconduct of the funeral industry. And, so, I have somewhat of a working knowledge of this 

subject matter. 

The Federal Trade Commission—and we have a representative 

here today from the FTC—has limited jurisdiction over funeral 

homes and the funeral industry. The Funeral Rule, which was created by the FTC, mandates that funeral homes must provide price 

lists, disclose state requirements regarding embalming, and provide 

information relating to the purchase of pre-need funeral services. 

The funeral homes that I have had the pleasure of working with 

take the federal rules seriously and run their businesses in a respectable and honorable manner. It is unfortunate that the Federal 

Rule does not—the Funeral Rule, excuse me, does not apply to 

cemeteries, and it does not apply to crematories and third-party 

sellers of funeral goods. In fact, the FTC has no jurisdiction over 

these industries, and that has been to the detriment of consumers 

across the country. 

The illegal exhumation of men and women, of fathers and mothers is perhaps the most egregious act someone can commit, and 

this happened potentially hundreds of times by five employees of 

Burr Oak Cemetery, located just outside of the city. The sadness 

and the anger and heartbreak felt by the families who have loved 

ones buried at this cemetery must be almost too much to bear. 

Even those lucky enough to be unaffected by these pitiful grave 

robbers are forever scarred, always thinking that it could have 

been—just as easily been their family member. 


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In less than a decade ago, we were all horrified to learn that the 

Tri-State Crematory in the State of Georgia had been piling bodies 

like trash all over the facility, and sending cement to grieving families. That is awful. I pray that these are isolated incidents, and 

that these activities are not being repeated at any number of unregulated cemeteries and crematories across the country. 

Mr. Chairman, I believe a federal minimum standard by which 

all cemeteries, crematories, and, to a lesser extent, third-party sellers of funeral goods is not only a good idea, but it is necessary. It 

is important that we give the FTC the tools it needs to expand the 

Funeral Rule so that loved ones who have passed away can be afforded the respect and care they deserve. I am informed that 25 

percent of the funeral contracts that are issued, that are written 

in this country, arise from pre-need arrangements entered into between consumers and funeral homes. Consumers pay a large sum 

of money to have the satisfaction of having a pre-paid funeral contract. I am told that states vary in their treatment of these funds. 

Also, states vary on whether the payments are refundable to the 

consumer. We need a uniform regulation on this subject, as well. 

Mr. Chairman, thank you, and I thank the panelists for being 

here today. I know how painful it may be and must be for you, but, 

hopefully, this process can help you feel better, and, hopefully, we 

can prevent this type of activity from happening again. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Mr. RUSH. The Chair thanks the gentleman. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from the 9th District of 

Memphis, Tennessee, Mr. STEVE COHEN, for five minutes, for the 

purposes of opening statement. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE COHEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TENNESSEE 

Mr. COHEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate, certainly, being here with the members of the Committee in this great 

City of Chicago. The City of Memphis is intimately related to Chicago through the Yellow or Central Railroad and Chicago’s Southern Airlines, and, in my personal situation, even more so. 

My mother was—lived in Chicago, went to Bowen High School, 

met my father when he was a resident of Michael Reese Hospital, 

and this was the first major city I ever visited. When I was seven 

years old, we came in on the train. We took a cab out at Chicago 

Art Institute, where I saw those iconic lions where my mother had 

gone to school. And, on the way there, we saw—I saw a sign on 

the store, and it said ‘‘Memphis Pork,’’ and I felt at home, and I 

still feel at home in Chicago. 

My grandparents immigrated to this country from Lithuania. 

And, this past year, I had the opportunity to visit Lithuania. One 

of the issues there is that there was a large area that was a Jewish 

cemetery for centuries that has been covered by a building built by 

the communist regime in Lithuania. It’s a major issue that those 

graves have been disturbed and that the communists built a structure over them. No knowledge of what happened to those graves. 

When I was there, I thought, ‘‘Is it possible that some of my 

great-, great-, great-grandparents could have been there?’’ And it 

bothered me. My mother’s mother was somebody who we really 


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didn’t know. My mother was orphaned when she was in Chicago 

at age six. She never saw her mother again. I researched through 

the Internet and found out that she had passed in Miami in about 

1976, and that she was buried in a pauper’s grave in Miami. I 

know not where it is because there was no marker, but it would 

bother me to know, even though I never knew my grandmother, 

that her grave would be disturbed, and, even though it was a pauper’s grave in Miami, that there—and there’s no marker, that 

something could happen to that spot. 

The desecration of bodies in our past is important and shouldn’t 

be allowed to occur, so it’s important that Chairman Rush has this 

Committee meeting, and what happened at Burr Oak could happen 

anywhere. I have a constituent, Ms. Rochelle Payne, who has ten 

relatives at Burr Oak. She is disturbed and was interviewed on the 

local television about this issue. 

The situation in Georgia is right outside the lines of the State 

of Tennessee, where I was a state senator, and that was a terrible 

injustice and crime that occurred there. At first blush, you’d think 

the cemetery industry should be regulated by state laws. And, at 

one time, cemeteries were local, and, still, there are lots of churches that bury on their properties, and it’s a local situation. But, as 

we become more and more of a national country, and people have 

moved and commerce has changed, cemetery ownership is so often 

involved with somebody outside the state, and a for-profit industry. 

The cemeteries are bought and sold, and, because of the changes 

in the way that our society operates in commerce, it’s important 

that we have regulation over the cemetery industry and not let 

somebody from out-of-state, or even in-state, have control over the 

remains of our loved ones and possibly disinter them or desecrate 

those graves. So it’s an important national issue. I appreciate 

Chairman Rush calling it. 

I want the people of Chicago to know that people all over the 

country felt this was an injustice, and that remedy should be had, 

and that what happened here in Chicago has happened in other 

places, where we’ve had disturbances at cemeteries and the lack of 

maintenance at cemeteries, often African American in my city, and 

this needs to stop. So I thank the Chairman for the opportunity. 

I yield back the remainder of my time. 

Mr. RUSH. And the Chair thanks the gentleman. 

Now, the Chair would like to invite the members of the first 

panel of witnesses to the witness table: Pastor Don Grayson, Mr. 

Dwight Robinson, Ms. Roxie Williams, and the Honorable Reverend 

Jesse Louis Jackson. 

It is the practice, the common practice of this Subcommittee that 

we swear in the witnesses, and I would ask the witnesses to please 

stand and raise your right hand. Will you please stand and raise 

your right hand. 

[Witnesses sworn.] 

Mr. RUSH. Please let the record reflect that all the witnesses 

have answered in the affirmative. 

We will begin with five minutes of opening statement, and I’m 

gonna ask the families if you will go first, and then Reverend Jackson will complete this panel’s testimony. 


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Mr. Grayson—Dr.—or, Pastor Grayson is the great-grandson of 

Dinah Washington, and he has other family members who are buried at the Burr Oak Cemetery. 

So, Pastor Grayson, we thank you for coming, and we welcome 

you, and we recognize you now for five minutes of opening statement. 

STATEMENT OF PASTOR DON E. GRAYSON, SR., GREAT– 

GRANDSON OF DINAH WASHINGTON, FAMILY MEMBER OF 

INDIVIDUALS BURIED AT BURR OAK CEMETERY 

Pastor GRAYSON. Thank you, sir. 

To the Chairman and the distinguished Subcommittee panel, I 

am honored to be before you today, and thank you for your invitation. Although it is under the grim and tragic circumstances of the 

events surrounding the historical Burr Oak Cemetery, I am glad to 

be here. 

My name is Revered Don E. Grayson. I am the pastor of Greater 

Faith Tabernacle Church in Chicago, Illinois. I’m here today for 

three reasons: One, as a pastor, I’ve looked in the faces of those 

who have buried their loved ones, whether it was from a sudden 

death or a long, debilitating illness, and walked away from the 

graveside knowing that their loved—their family members are resting in peace now, only to discover that now there is a possibility 

that the resting place that many families struggled to pay for has 

been disturbed and allegedly resold for personal gain. I’ve counseled those who were emotionally distraught for the second time, 

because, to them, it is like reliving the loss all over again. 

I’ve prayed and asked God for the words, but what do you say 

to a mother who has lost her only son and has finally come to have 

peace with his death, that someone now has re-opened his grave 

and has taken his remains and just tossed them just like trash? Or 

a wife who buried her husband and two children in the same year, 

and is finally beginning to move forward? I tell them what the 

word of God says: That you don’t fear one that can destroy the 

body, but fear one that can destroy the soul. But there are those 

who won’t hear that, who don’t have a pastor to counsel them. 

They’re upset and they’re angry because this should not have happened. But I, like many other pastors, have the awesome and difficult task of trying to heal those who have lost faith, and ask the 

question that so many have asked: Is nothing sacred, and why? 

And is anyone going to do anything about it? 

The second reason is as a professional. As a former law enforcement officer, I realize that the world we live in is filled with those 

who will take full advantage of the weak, as well as the unprotected, when there is no law in place to protect them, and when 

those that have rule are not governed and held in accountability 

for that which has been placed in their hands. We have laws, regulations, and annual, updated reports on everything from animals 

and the forest to the environment and toxic waste, but they’re—but 

not our dearly departed and their final resting places. 

I realize the magnitude of the investigation that Cook County 

Sheriff Tom Dart and the law, other law enforcement agencies involved have, and he has handled it with professionalism, care, and 

concern. I know that this type of investigation must be handled 


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with time and precision, and that the public must be patient so 

that all of the facts will be in, and that those responsible are 

brought to justice, and the victims, living and deceased, can have 

peace and healing. 

And, thirdly, my own personal experience; my own family who 

has patronized the Burr Oak Cemetery for over 60 years. My greatgrandmother, Dinah Washington; my great-grandfather, Reverend 

Dr. S.A. Grayson; my great-grandmother on my mother’s side, Ms. 

Idella Liddell; and great-grandparents, Dan and Ida Sutton; and 

countless of others of my family, more than I could even name, who 

have made their final, physical resting place at the Burr Oak Cemetery. I must be honest in telling you that I am emotionally affected, and, to some of the members of my family, this has been 

devastating and overwhelming, because there are family members 

who have headstones and can’t possibly be located, but there are 

others with no headstone and, now, almost impossible to locate. 

I implore you as a governing body, as the ones who have been 

made stewards over this great country, that you would look into 

this matter as if your own family members were involved, as if 

your parents and ancestry had been disturbed. Put yourself in the 

place of these families who now have to relive the burden, the pain, 

the sadness, and the grief of death. I ask that you would regulate 

laws to govern the cemeteries, and then hold them accountable. I 

ask that you have annual inspections of all cemeteries and their 

records, and that you would force them to update their records and 

modernize them from the first person laid to rest to the last, and 

that the—even the private facilities have the similar, if not the 

same, standards. 

Mr. Chairman and panel, I thank you for this time. 

[The statement of Pastor Don E. Grayson, Sr. follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. Thank you very much, Pastor Grayson. 

Our next witness is Mr. Dwight Robinson, who has family members buried at Burr Oak. 

Mr. Robinson, we welcome you to this Subcommittee, and you’re 

recognized now for five minutes, for opening statements. 

STATEMENT OF DWIGHT ROBINSON, FAMILY MEMBER OF 

INDIVIDUALS BURIED AT BURR OAK CEMETERY 

Mr. ROBINSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Congressman Rush and other distinguished members of the 

Committee, thank you for this opportunity to speak to you today 

regarding the ongoing crisis at Burr Oak Cemetery. 

My name is Dwight Robinson. I, like thousands of others who 

have loved ones buried at Burr Oak, were in shock to hear that 

hundreds and possibly thousands of graves had been desecrated. 

Both my parents are buried at Burr Oak. My father, Leonard Robinson, in 1983, and my mother, Vivian Robinson, in 1989. At the 

time of their burials, it was my belief, and that of my sister, that 

my parents would rest in peace. Unfortunately, this tragedy has 

caused both of us to have to relive the death experience all over 

again. This incident has resurrected what should have been comforting memories; have now turned into disbelief, confusion, uncertainty, and unnecessary anxiety. Although I was able to go to Burr 

Oak prior to the Cook County Sheriff and the FBI temporarily closing it, and although things appear fine on the surface, there is still 

that element of doubt as to whether what looks fine on the outside 

is still OK on the inside of my parents’ grave. We may never know 

if the grave sites were actually disturbed. Even if we knew for certainty that my parents’ graves were never touched and remain intact, there is still one unsettling emotion; that there are other families that are also re-grieving the past; that there are persons that 

have shown a callous disregard for the sanctity of the sacred 

ground where many are laid to rest. 

There are so many questions that remain unanswered, not withstanding why anyone would do something like this to the families 

and loved ones of others. If nothing else, one would believe that 

something inside of these four individuals would have been triggered. I have to believe that each of them at least has one family 

member buried somewhere, and that they would never have wanted something like this to happen to their loved ones. One question 

that remains with me is, what will happen to my parents’ remains, 

as well as those of others, should Burr Oak be permanently closed? 

Will we have to transfer our parents to another cemetery? If so, 

how will this be handled? Who would be responsible for payment? 

Until these and other questions are answered, none of us who remain will have full peace. 

We all know that there needs to be better regulation of cemeteries. In fact, most of us have known this for years. However, 

those that we have put in place to provide such regulations are too 

entrenched in allowing lobbyists to dictate policies for the public. 

This should be a painful lesson to everyone to acknowledge; that 

the acts of violence and indifference to the deceased at Burr Oak 

were also an act of violence and indifference to those families that 

are still alive. 


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Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your time, and the members of 

this Committee, for your time and efforts towards this ongoing crisis. 

[The statement of Mr. Dwight Robinson follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. The Chair thanks the gentleman, Mr. Robinson. 

And, now, the Chair recognizes Ms. Roxie Williams, who has 

family members that are also buried at the Burr Oak Cemetery. 

And, Ms. Williams, we want to welcome you to the Subcommittee, and you’re recognized now for five minutes, for opening 

statements. 

STATEMENT OF ROXIE WILLIAMS, FAMILY MEMBER OF 

INDIVIDUALS BURIED AT BURR OAK CEMETERY 

Ms. WILLIAMS. I want to thank you, Honorable Congressman 

Rush, and to the Subcommittee that has taken the time out to hear 

from the families. 

My name’s Roxie Williams. And there may be some families here 

that are not close to the young people in their family. The generations don’t know the contributions that the older people in their 

family have made. That would not be my family. Maybe there are 

some men who did not look after the development and the education of their children, did not contribute to their communities. 

That, too, would not be my father. Matthew Williams served this 

country. Matthew Williams was a king in his community. Matthew 

Williams served his family. On October 22nd, 1978, Matthew Williams was laid to rest at Burr Oaks. At 11 years old, 11 days after 

my birthday, I had to deal with the tragedy and hold up a family; 

a little lion cub trying to roar for a mother who had suffered a 

mental breakdown after losing the support of her husband; trying 

to tell children what to do next without having that father there 

to support the family. 

We went through some traumatic times burying my father. As 

you know, in our communities, even middle class, it came as a financial burden to my mother. My mother worked ER at Cook 

County, and worked a second job to make sure that things were 

taken care of. My family rallied around my mother to bring her 

safely back to a mental state. My grandmother and I picked 

clothes, selected caskets. We paid a mint to bury my father as the 

king that he was. 

We have a thing that our family does; we don’t forget our loved 

ones. Every year, I would go, on his birthday, and put flowers at 

the grave site. We had a big to-do when my father died, because 

he had three different places we could have buried him; one, because he was a veteran; two, because he’s the only child to his 

mother, and they wanted to be buried together; and, three, because 

the family had prepaid for plots. We decided to bury him with his 

mother, and she had decided Burr Oaks would be that cemetery 

that they would lay together at rest in peace. My mother selflessly 

laid my father next to his mother. She had not passed at the time. 

She was the only grandmother that pulled me through. For two 

years, I didn’t speak because it was such a traumatic thing for me. 

My mother offered to buy a custom-made headstone for my 

grandmother and my father so that I would have the memories. 

And my last words spoken to him were the last words put on that 

headstone. In 1993, after finishing high school and college, I was 

pregnant and engaged, and I wanted to show my fiance ́ who my 

dad was. It’s very hard coming up and you don’t have a man to 

present a new man in your life to. We went to the grave site only 


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to find that my father’s headstone was not there. My grandmother, 

who had passed two years after him, her headstone was there. 

When I went to the office, they told me perhaps I had the wrong 

information. 

My mother struggled to put a customized headstone for me and 

my brother and my kids’ kids to know where our families lay. We 

paid through our nose. My mother sacrificed food. She sacrificed. 

The community came together to make sure a man who had served 

that community was buried with dignity. And when I got there, all 

he could tell me is that, ‘‘No.’’ I had to go home to my mother’s 

home, dig through death certificates, find a little blue card to tell 

them where my father was buried. And when I came back, the man 

who told me he was not there was on vacation. The woman in the 

office had a—someone take me out to that particular site. All that 

was there was grass and my grandmother’s headstone next to it. 

I knew then something was wrong. 

Being—having a baby, not having the finances to fight a cemetery, to say that I know darn well where we laid my father, and 

to have to come as an adult and fight with them about a situation, 

that I came year after year—there is no way I would forget the 

ground that my father lay on. Then to have them say, ‘‘Perhaps we 

have lost the records.’’ How do you find justice for me, when you’ve 

lost the records of my only father? If I had not been birthed and 

he had not signed that birth certificate, and I needed DNA to prove 

who I was today, I would be in trouble. How do I tell my son, who 

is now 16, about a grandfather, and I cannot even take him to his 

last resting place and know for sure that’s where he was? 

Can something hurt 31 years later? Absolutely. Can you take 

this thing lightly? Absolutely not. Because the pain and the 

wounds are still re-opened. Maybe my father has never meant a 

thing to any of you. Maybe my grandmother being buried at Burr 

Oaks may not be significant to anyone in this room, but they 

meant the world. They were the cornerstones of us being able to 

come through and be productive and positive human beings in this 

society right now. We owe them that tribute. And, today, I champion my family again on a tragedy of the same death that we had 

31 years ago. 

Will I let it rest? No, because you have not let my father rest. 

You have not let my grandmother rest. And as long as my ancestors don’t rest, this girl is not going to rest, until there’s something 

done about the criminal act. You have raped us. You have robbed 

us. And you have nothing to say, but, ‘‘Sorry we lost your loved 

ones’ remains?’’ It is not appropriate. It is not something that I can 

take lying down, and, as long as there’s breath in me, I will support whatever you all decide to do so that no other family, no other 

grandchild, no other great-grandchild has to deal with what I’m 

dealing with today. 

And I hope, in my whole heart, if I do nothing else great in my 

life, I hope that I make a difference for Matthew Williams and 

Pearl Billips, who made a difference for me. And I thank you today 

for allowing me that. 

Mr. RUSH. The Chair certainly thanks Ms. Williams. 

[The statement of Ms. Roxie Williams follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. And, now, it is my privilege and my honor to recognize 

one who needs no introduction, in that he is very familiar in all the 

wards for justice across this nation and across this world. He is 

someone who I have an endearing relationship with, a loving relationship. For most of my life, he’s been a filler in my own life, and 

he’s been a helpful friend in my times of need. So it is my distinct 

honor to recognize, for five minutes, for the purposes of opening 

statement, the honorable, the reverend, the leader, Reverend Jesse 

Louis Jackson, of the Operation PUSH. 

STATEMENT OF REVEREND JESSE L. JACKSON, SR., FOUNDER 

AND PRESIDENT, RAINBOWPUSH COALITION, INC. 

Reverend JACKSON. Thank you, Chairman Rush, Committee 

members—— 

Mr. RUSH. Will you turn your mic on. 

Reverend JACKSON. Thank you, Chairman Rush—— 

Mr. RUSH. Thanks. 

Reverend JACKSON [continuing]. And to Committee Members 

Jackson and Butterfield, Schakowsky, and Cohen. 

Let me make one alteration here. Mr. Cohen said this was the 

first major city he visited. It is the only one he visited; this is Chicago. 

This testimony is presented to this Congressional hearing panel 

in response to the cemetery crisis at Burr Oak Cemetery in Chicago, in Alsip, Illinois, which we believe may be symptomatic of a 

national problem arising from the inadequate regulation of cemeteries, casket companies, and grave diggers. 

The Burr Oak crisis arose as a result of the State of Illinois’ failure to regulate the cemeteries and crematories within its geographic boundaries. In my investigation, I have discovered only one 

cemetery in the State of Illinois that acknowledged that it has sold 

all of its available burial space, and, therefore, cannot and will not 

take any additional bodies. This is in contrast to Burr Oak Cemetery, which, with the acquisition of additional land, the owners and 

operators have continued to accept burial fees and purchases of 

pre-need plots for the past several years. The Burr Oak paid-for 

plot scandal investigation uncovered, so far, more than 300 bodies 

or remains had been moved. Caskets and vaults have been dug up 

and arbitrarily discarded to facilitate the resale of graves. 

Burr Oak is owned by a holding company known as Perpetua, 

which also owns and operates two other cemeteries; Cedar Park in 

Chicago and another cemetery in St. Louis, Missouri. We’re not certain that the practices at Burr Oak and Cedar Park are identical, 

but we do know that both cemeteries are under common management. The owners are responsible, and the workers jailed now 

could be the fall guys. We need to know. 

We realize that the Burr Oak scandal is symptomatic of a national problem that may arise if we continue through the practice 

of not regulating cemeteries. We made the following observations 

as a result of our research arising out of the Burr Oak investigation: 

The desecration of the moderate remains of Emmett Till’s casket 

further the pain and the humiliation, and the likes of our dear sister, Dinah Washington, and Ezzard Charles and so many more, one 


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that’s been a pattern of desecration of African American cemeteries 

and burial grounds as evidenced by the African burial ground located on Wall Street in New York City. 

Two, there has been a major impact on cemetery expansion in 

urban areas as a result of the use of eminent domain laws to acquire cemetery property for use in expanding highways. 

Three, the failure of state legislatures to appropriate funds to ensure proper and adequate burials of indigent citizens. There’s an 

attempt on this session of budget long—to no longer pay for the 

burial and funerals of public aid recipients. We have a struggle 

with that even as we talk today. 

Cemetery records are often poorly maintained and managed. 

Presently, all states, including Illinois, regulate funeral directors 

and funeral home owners and embalmers, but do not regulate 

cemeteries or its owners. 

There’s no common repository for death and burial records that 

would permit online searches. To this date, there are 6600 cemeteries in the state, with 900 on regulation. Others have private or 

religious domain. 

Members and directors of RainbowPUSH are therefore calling on 

this panel to: 

One, conduct a review of all state laws and regulate cemeteries 

to determine similarities and differences in regulatory status. 

Two, promulgate national cemetery regulation that results in a 

national funeral database that includes data on the funeral, the 

cemetery arrangements by owners, date, and name of the deceased. 

Three, initiate uniform cemetery regulation that designates one 

agency with responsibility for licensing, regulating, and maintaining cemeteries. 

Four, enact federal legislation that creates a national uniform 

death registry that includes the information regarding the funeral 

and burial services and burial site of the deceased on the death certificate that is readable and accessible online. 

Five, enact federal legislation that requires every state to consolidate regulatory oversight in one state agency. 

And, six, enact federal legislation that appropriates sufficient 

funds for the funeral service and burials of indigent persons. 

The only modest consolation for all of this painful crisis is that 

Burr Oak is the resting place, now disturbed bones, of the deceased. The Lord alone has the souls in a vault that cannot be disturbed by thieves. We constantly seek to offer consolation to the bereaved families. Thank you. 

[The statement of Reverend Jesse L. Jackson follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. The Chair thanks Reverend Jackson. 

And the Chair now recognizes himself for five minutes—or, for 

two minutes, for questioning, as we have an amount of time—a 

limited amount of time. And the Chair wants to ask each and every 

one of the witnesses. I can’t forget the words of your—Pastor Grayson, your grandmother. Is that your grandmother or your great—— 

Pastor GRAYSON. Yes. 

Mr. RUSH [continuing]. Grandmother? Grandmother. The Psalm 

that she said, ‘‘What a difference a day makes.’’ 

Pastor GRAYSON. Yes, she did. 

Mr. RUSH. And I just want to assure you and all the panelists 

and all of the witnesses and all the victims today that this day will 

make a difference. We’re not here just for the press. We’re not here 

just for some type of show. We’re here to do the people’s work, and 

this Committee will do the people’s work. Out of this hearing and 

additional hearings, we will bring forth legislation, federal legislation, to set minimum standards for the operation of cemeteries all 

across this nation. What happened at Burr Oak, as you had said, 

indicated, is just not symptomatic of just one place. It’s not—this 

is something that is occurring across this nation, maybe not to the 

extent of Burr Oak, but it’s certainly happening all across this nation. 

Pastor GRAYSON. That’s right. 

Mr. RUSH. And we intend to look—get to the bottom of it and 

provide for relief to the families. 

Let me just ask you—and I’ll ask all the witnesses to chime in 

on this—do you see a federal role? And do you support a federal 

role in providing for minimum standards for the operation of cemeteries across this nation? And I’ll say crematories across the nation. 

Pastor GRAYSON. Mr. Chairman, yes, I do. I do see a significant 

federal role regulating cemeteries and crematories. I think it would 

be advantageous on the part—for the community. Situations such 

as what Ms. Williams has dealt with, situations as to what some 

of the members of the congregation and some similar others and 

other pastors have to deal with in reference to trying to relocate, 

I think it would be a great idea to do that. And I would support 

it. 

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Robinson. 

Mr. ROBINSON. Thank you, Chairman Rush. I don’t think there’s 

anyone that would not support federal legislation across this country to regulate cemeteries and crematories. I don’t see, personally, 

and being a resident of the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois, 

I don’t see the ability of the State of Illinois to be able to regulate 

these entities. It is my personal belief that the best that the State 

of Illinois can do is to license these entities. So, without the ability—in my own personal belief, once again—of the State of Illinois 

being able to regulate these entities, I think the only way we’re 

going to get across-the-board, sweeping regulations would be 

through this Committee and through the federal government. 

Thank you. 

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. 

Ms. Williams. 

Ms. WILLIAMS. It’s my opinion that we should regulate the cemeteries and crematories, because they have shown us that they are 


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not able to handle the enormity of their services without some support, and I think it would be helpful to any individual that would 

have to interface with this particular industry; that they would 

have some assurances and ensurances that things would be handled properly. And they would have something tangible at the end 

of the business transaction that they could also prove, you know, 

that there was a business interaction with the cemeteries. 

So I think that regulation, at this point, is warranted. 

Mr. RUSH. Reverend Jackson. 

Reverend JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, emotionally, when a loved 

one dies, people often call their pastor and funeral director. They’re 

connected emotionally to their church, so often, and the funeral director, and they are very publicly accountable. Many of us distinguish between the funeral home and the cemetery, and there is an 

absolute distinction between the very regulated funeral home—the 

embalmers are licensed and trained, and the health department 

and other agencies are involved—and the cemetery. When that 

gate closes, there’s just left family and funeral home. It’s that gap 

that leaves them to their own devices that we saw in this situation. 

Also, people often are forced to pay the cemetery to be allowed 

to be buried, but are not forced the same way to have to pay their 

funeral home. They may have to rape and scrape money to pay the 

cemetery for burial right now, and get a late payment, say, from 

Medicaid or some other agency, on their loved one to run the funeral home and small business into a great deficit. There’s one funeral home that’s owed a million dollars in late payments, but has 

to handle and bury the poor. 

The other part, of course, is that, without some standard of 

human dignity regulation, the—within 48 hours, the doctor must 

sign the death certificate. In 72 hours, the funeral home must sign 

it. But, then, the cemetery only—it doesn’t. It drops. One should be 

able to go online and see ‘‘X’’ person died on ‘‘X’’ day, death certificate signed by the doctor, signed by the funeral director, cemetery 

they’re buried at, at such-and-such a place. That should be one 

line, but, right now, that line does not exist. 

Mr. RUSH. OK. The Chair now recognizes the Vice Chairman of 

the Subcommittee, Ms. Schakowsky, for two minutes for statement—for questioning. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. I just want to, really, to express my gratitude 

to this panel. I think everyone presented a very important and 

helpful perspective, and I wanted to particularly single out Ms. 

Williams for talking about, in the most eloquent way I can imagine, 

the anguish of families, and how generations can be affected by 

this, and I appreciate that. 

I wanted to just comment on something that Reverend Jackson 

said. There are lots of communities that are affected. We were 

given examples of families with relatives at a Jewish cemetery in 

Palm Beach, and another Florida cemetery. They were linked by 

having—by being part of a national chain of cemeteries—of forprofit cemeteries, which I think really does underscore, too, the 

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But, again, I am greatly appreciative, and I think the decision to 

have families first was an important one, Mr. Chairman. Thank 

you. 

Reverend JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, one thing I forgot was, often 

these huge, conglomerate cemetery homes are now buying up large 

spots of land, and have the funeral services on the property, and 

use it to undermine funeral home relationship. So, the bigger they 

get, the more they push the family away. So we have these services 

on this unregulated, for-profit territory, which makes it even more 

difficult to manage. 

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina, 

Mr. Butterfield, for two minutes, for the purposes of asking questions. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I, too, would like to thank the four of you for your testimony, and 

I agree with Ms. Schakowsky that, Ms. Williams, your testimony 

was very helpful. I’ve sat in courtrooms and Congressional rooms 

all of my adult life, and I’ve never heard testimony more powerful 

or relevant. I understood every word that you said. Thank you very 

much for your testimony. 

Mr. Robinson, let me direct my questioning to you, if I can, sir. 

Apparently, you have multiple family members who are interred at 

this particular cemetery; is that right? 

Mr. ROBINSON. Just my mother and my father. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. OK. Does the family own an assortment or an 

array of grave spaces, or do you have other grave spaces at your 

disposal at this moment. 

Mr. ROBINSON. No, sir. The plots were purchased at the time of 

my parents’ death. There are no other lots that were purchased at 

Burr Oak. I don’t have a lot out there, and neither does my sister, 

at this time. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Do you recall how you purchased those lots 

when—at need? What, was it through the funeral home, or did you 

have to go directly to the cemetery. 

Mr. ROBINSON. They were purchased through the funeral home 

with my parents—the funeral home that we chose, my mother—my 

father preceded my mother in death, and my mother chose the funeral home where she wanted my father to be buried. And then, 

once my mother passed six years later, we—my sister and I decided 

to use the same funeral home for my mother, and to bury my mother alongside of my father. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. What is the practice now, if you know, in the 

Chicago area, regarding cemetery sales, plot sales? Are they advertised in the media, or is it generally done exclusively through the 

funeral home. 

Mr. ROBINSON. I really don’t know the answer to that. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. OK. Reverend Grayson, do you have any information on that? Yes. 

Pastor GRAYSON. What is the—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. What is the practice in the Chicago area? 

Pastor GRAYSON. Well, thank you, sir. 

From my understanding, as a pastor, whenever someone dies, 

they generally contact the funeral home or a pastor. The pastor, in 


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turn, would suggest a funeral home in which they might be affiliated with or have association with, and they would send them, actually, to that funeral home. 

As Pastor—as Reverend Jackson has said, pastors and funeral 

homes sometimes work cohesively together. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. That’s pretty clear. That’s the same thing in 

my hometown, but I’m trying to get from the funeral home to the 

cemetery. Can you illuminate on that for me? 

Pastor GRAYSON. Well, from what I understand, as dealing with 

it, the cemetery would—or, rather, the funeral home would ask the 

family what cemetery would they like to be buried in? Would they 

likely have a family crypt or something like that. In that turn, 

they—the funeral home—I’ve dealt with Leak and Sons. They 

would take us out to the cemetery and have the family to deal with 

the cemetery one on one. The funeral home, to my knowledge, has 

no dealings with the cemetery as far as pricing or that type of 

thing. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. And, so, the funeral director would facilitate 

the arrangement between the cemetery and the family. 

Pastor GRAYSON. They would basically just ask—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. They basically stay out of the transaction. 

Pastor GRAYSON. That’s correct. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. OK. That’s generally the practice of Chicago; 

is that right? 

Pastor GRAYSON. Yes. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for 

your time. I’m gonna yield back. 

Mr. RUSH. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from the 2nd 

District of Illinois, Mr. Jackson, Jr., for two minutes, for the purposes of questions. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. Mr. Chairman, I don’t plan to use up all 

my time, but I certainly want to begin by thanking Ms. Williams 

for the very emotional testimony, and for the way in which it was 

perceived by this Committee. 

I’d like to direct my questions, in furtherance of Mr. Butterfield, 

to Mr. Robinson and Mr. Grayson. Are you aware of whether or 

not, when you purchased the plots at the cemetery, whether or not 

that land was deeded to your family, specifically, as the final resting place of your loved one? 

Mr. ROBINSON. Congressman Jackson, in my case, no, it was not. 

All we received from the cemetery were the location cards as to 

where my parents were buried. Fortunately, my sister and I maintained all of our records of our parents, and I—when I went to visit 

Burr Oak and visit my family’s grave, we had the burial cards and 

the locations. And even though there was some damage around the 

location, it did not appear, to me, visually, that there had been any 

serious disturbance of my parents’ graves. 

But we were not given any deeds or anything; only the lot—the 

cards. As Ms. Williams said, she was given a pink card, and I can 

only assume that men who are buried are given blue cards, and 

women who are buried are given pink cards. And, so, my father has 

a blue card, and my mother has a pink card, and that’s what we 

used for a location. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. Mr. Grayson. 


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Pastor GRAYSON. Thank you, Congressman. As far as I can understand,—I don’t really know too much of that, as far as a deed 

is concerned. I know, in some members of my family, they had prearrangements as to their purchasing the plots prior to their death, 

and I think they received some type of paperwork in reference to 

that. And whenever someone dies, we take that particular paperwork to the cemetery, and they retrieve that particular plot. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. I guess what I’m getting at, Reverend 

Grayson, is that, a bereaving family, when they purchase a cemetery plot, operates under the assumption that this is the final resting place—— 

Pastor GRAYSON. That’s correct. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois [continuing]. Of their loved one, and that 

the purchase of that plot is, essentially, the final resting place of 

that loved one. 

Pastor GRAYSON. That’s correct. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. That’s their land, essentially, for the 

purposes of that plot in the context of the memorial garden. Is that 

your understanding? 

Pastor GRAYSON. To my understanding, when you purchase that 

plot, it’s your plot. When you purchase that particular—I have family members who have made pre-arrangements and have purchased 

several plots. The whole Grayson family, next to my grandmother, 

Dinah Washington, all of them are right in together, along with 

several other relatives. Those plots were purchased, so that land, 

assuming they cannot be touched, is not supposed to be touched. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. There’s no expectation that someone 

who’s buried in a crypt, that somehow, once that crypt space is purchased, buried above the ground, that somehow, underneath that 

space, you might find additional graves to be sold. You have—— 

Pastor GRAYSON. I haven’t—— 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. You own that land that you bury your 

loved ones on. 

Pastor GRAYSON. That is the assumption; yes. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. That’s the assumption. And there are 

documents within the memorial garden, we are arguing, should be 

maintained to show that that is essentially your family’s—— 

Pastor GRAYSON. Memorial Gardens, or Burr Oak. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. A memorial garden. 

Pastor GRAYSON. OK. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. I’m using the term ‘‘memorial garden,’’ 

not specifically, but Burr Oak, specifically, but the idea of a memorial park. 

Pastor GRAYSON. Absolutely. Yes. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. I think my final question, Mr. Chairman, 

to pick up on something that—Representative Butterfield raised 

the question. The idea of maintaining these plots, is that something 

that the families maintain, or is the expectation, when you purchased the plot, that, in perpetuity—forever—the grass will be cut, 

the headstones will be maintained, that there will be a certain 

amount of dignity associated with the expectation of an undisturbed tomb. 

Pastor GRAYSON. Well, to my knowledge, Mr. Congressman, 

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ing place is for your family members, it is the assumption, again, 

of the family that the cemetery is to maintain the actual grave of 

land—property, because that’s basically what they’re getting paid 

for out of the money that they’ve received from these cemetery 

plots. I’m—I don’t think I have any assumption or that I’m really 

thinking that you’re supposed to come out there and cut the grass. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. Yes. Let me make one final comment, 

Mr. Chairman. I know my time has expired, but it’s something else 

that Representative Butterfield said; that when these payment 

plans are made, are they made to the funeral homes, or are the 

payment plans made to the cemeteries themselves? Or does the 

payment plan include the burial plot as well as the funeral arrangements themselves. 

Pastor GRAYSON. I have no knowledge of that, sir. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. Thank you. 

Mr. RUSH. All right. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Cohen for two 

minutes. 

Mr. COHEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I just join Ms. Schakowsky and others who mentioned Ms. Williams’ testimony. She brought it to a personal level, and, in my 

opening statement, I talked about some theoretical things, about 

relatives I didn’t know, and that disturbed me. It bothered me, but, 

in the personal level, it’s much more germane. And the fact is, 200 

years ago, when we had our Constitution and we had a Fifth 

Amendment, and we talked about states having prerogatives over 

certain issues, cemeteries weren’t owned by companies outside of 

state border; they were generally churches or synagogues or other 

groups that had the cemeteries and kept them at home, and they 

were subject to the goodwill of their neighbors. That no longer exists. So this is a time when we need to have federal legislation on 

cemeteries. 

The name of this cemetery company, Perpetua, is so ironic, because there was nothing perpetual in what they did; it was fraudulent, it was a breach of trust, and there should be penalties and 

some type of appropriate remedy for the relatives. 

I yield back the remainder of my time. 

Mr. RUSH. Thank you. 

Reverend JACKSON. Mr. Congressman. 

Mr. RUSH. Reverend. 

Reverend JACKSON. Another piece that we—as we began to dig 

the stuff up, was the—there’s a perpetual fund. The cemetery has 

that fund; use it like a pension fund. And about 12 years or so ago 

at Burr Oak, they had to change companies because of the violations of the perpetual fund. 

Also, distinction between stacking bodies is somehow being permitted, even at, say, Lincoln, down in Springfield; a husband and 

wife may—they should be buried, too, in that way. The distinction 

between stacking and desecration, which is not permitted, and 

we’re also finding small print, something like 20-year leases as opposed to deeds, and that’s where we wonder the idea of what’s the 

run-out times opposed to the eternity? What’s the run-out time before cemeteries can do to bodies; that there is some fine print stuff 

that we never quite deal with in the grieving state, but it’s way beyond—I want to make, again, distinction between funeral home 


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stops at the gate, and the cemeteries have their own rules. They’re 

licensed to the extent that you can—you have a right to bury in 

that place, and you can’t bury some other place. 

Mr. JACKSON of Illinois. Reverend Jackson, let me just say that 

I—having buried our own loved ones, I don’t think any funeral— 

any plot that we’ve ever purchased as a family, that there’s ever 

been an expectation that, after 20 years, somehow, it runs out; that 

this is a leasing arrangement. This is sacred space. Of course, you 

know that. Your mother and father are in a sacred space. But there 

was no expectation that, in 20 years, we need to go as a family and 

research, as Ms. Williams indicated, whether or not the families 

are there. And, so, I think, Mr. Chair—— 

Reverend JACKSON. You pick up these cemetery contracts, you’re 

gonna find some stuff that’s beyond ordinary imagination/expectation. 

Mr. RUSH. Right. The Chair would like to inform all who are concerned that the second panel will delve more extensively into this 

particular area of the different types of contractual arrangements. 

There are leasing arrangements that exist that the consumer might 

not be aware of, the terms of the contracts that the consumer 

might not be aware of, but they sign them anyway because of the 

environment in which they negotiate. So, these are the kind of contracts, and this kind of behavior the second panel will undertake 

and try to inform the Subcommittee of. 

The Chair wants to thank the witnesses again for your testimony, but before—wait. I just—please forgive me. The Chair now— 

before we dismiss these witnesses, the Chair would like to recognize the gentleman from the 7th Congressional District, a man who 

has shown leadership throughout the years on this and other matters that faces the American people, Congressman Danny K. Davis, 

of the 7th Congressional District. 

Congressman Davis, we’ll recognize you for two minutes, for the 

purposes of questioning the witnesses. And, if you have an opening 

statement, we will include your opening statement in the record by 

unanimous consent. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And let me, 

first of all, commend you for calling this hearing, and also commend you for the tremendous leadership that you have provided on 

a number of issues, especially those related to Consumer Protection. 

I also want to thank our colleagues for coming from out of town, 

Representatives Butterfield and Cohen, to be with us this morning. 

The one question that I think I will ask, and it’s difficult to find 

ways to provide additional oversight and ways to look for what 

could have happened that would have prevented this tragedy from 

occurring. 

Reverend Jackson, I’d like to ask you a question. I know that you 

have been accused of having the ability to look through muddy 

water and sometimes see dry land. The question that I wanted to 

ask you is, can you think of any additional levels of oversight, at 

either the local or state levels, that might have been able to prevent this tragedy from occurring and would not have necessarily 

cost the taxpayers a large sum of money? 


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Reverend JACKSON. Well, they have to keep books consistent 

with death certificate and funeral home, and that would be—anything could happen, because, maybe that way, family members and 

funeral directors can serve as, kind of, a check and balance. 

Maybe, if it were a federal crime to desecrate bodies in this way, 

or manipulate remains, that would raise the—you become a terrorist with this kind of behavior. I would think that after you have 

heard both of these sets of witnesses today and see that Burr Oak 

just opens up a national wound—we’ve seen this desecration with 

the crematory in northwestern Georgia that was mentioned today, 

the Jewish cemetery in Florida, and I would like to think you 

would take—that you would run out to the best of your elected officials to try to figure out some remedy. But we do know that the 

embalmers are licensed, have to go through real training. The funeral directors have to go through hell and all kinds of training, 

but the cemeteries are largely just land purchasers who let burials 

take place on their land. 

Of course, in this case, you mentioned, Mr. Cohen, there’s absentee landlords. They have not surfaced yet. They served a subpoena 

to all the funeral directors, ‘‘Give us all your records. We’ll go 

through them.’’ An order that went back five years. So, the funeral 

directors have had to take the burden of hiring extra people, 

digging up records. I mean, the burden shifted back to the funeral 

directors, but the owners of the cemeteries, so far, have not yet surfaced. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I thank 

the Reverend Jackson for his answer. 

Mr. RUSH. Again—thank you, Congressman Davis. 

Again, the Chair thanks the witnesses, and I want to reiterate 

that the record is open for 30 days. If you have additional commentary that you might want to submit, you have 30 days in order 

to get that into the record. 

Thank you so very much, and God-speed to each and every one 

of you. 

The Chair now calls the second panel to the witness table. 

The Chair would now like to introduce the second panel. Beginning on my left, Mr. Chuck Harwood is the Deputy Director of the 

Bureau of Consumer Protection for the Federal Trade Commission. 

Seated next to Mr. Harwood is the Honorable Daniel W. Hynes, 

who is the Illinois State Comptroller and a leader on this particular issue. Next to Mr. Hynes is Mr. Joshua Slocum, who’s an 

Executive Director of the Funeral Consumers Alliance. Seated next 

to Mr. Slocum is Mr. Harvey Lapin, who’s the General Counsel of 

Illinois Cemetery and Funeral Home Association. 

And seated next to Mr. Lapin is the honorable Spencer Leak, Jr., 

who’s the—of the Leak and Sons Funeral Home. He’s one of the 

sons of the Leak and Sons Funeral Home. 

I certainly want to welcome each and every one of you here to 

witness before this Subcommittee, and we will begin with you providing five minutes, for opening statements. You’re recognized now 

for five minutes, beginning with Mr. Harwood. 


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STATEMENT OF CHARLES HARWOOD, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF CONSUMER PROTECTION, FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

Mr. HARWOOD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Charles 

Harwood, or Chuck Harwood. I’m, again, the Director in the Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection. I submitted a written statement to represent the views of the Commission. I bring my whole testimony today, and answer any questions. 

The views I will express will be my own. 

The Federal Trade Commission, first of all, expresses its deep 

condolences to the families affected by the heartbreaking events of 

the historic Burr Oak Cemetery. As Ms. Williams has made so very 

clear, the families and friends of those buried at Burr Oak pain 

that has dulled has been resharpened, depressed sorrows been reignited. The FTC understands that, and does, indeed, express serious and deepest condolences for the pain of these people. 

On behalf of the FTC, I want to thank Mr. Chairman for convening this hearing and inviting the FTC to testify. We want to 

work with the Subcommittee in looking for ways in which we can 

use our law enforcement authority, rulemaking authority, and experience and expertise to respond to this tragedy. 

Also, on behalf of the FTC, Mr. Chairman, I want to commend 

the thorough and rapid response of the law enforcement authorities 

to the disinterment and desecration at Burr Oak Cemetery. There’s 

ongoing criminal investigation at the Illinois Attorney General’s Office and the Illinois Comptroller’s Office to file a lawsuit to enforce 

Illinois consumer protection law. The FTC is prepared to cooperate 

and assist with these agencies. 

Also, Mr. Chairman, to the extent additional relief is called for 

in connection with these law enforcement actions, the FTC is prepared to investigate and, if appropriate, bring additional actions. 

As the Subcommittee well knows, Congress has charged the FTC 

with protecting the American consumers from fraud, deceit, and 

other injurious practices. Since the 1980s, the FTC’s Funeral Rule 

has been the center of our consumer protection law enforcement efforts in the so-called death care industry. The Funeral Rule is a 

cost disclosure rule. For example, when a consumer visits a funeral 

home, the Rule requires that the funeral director provide the consumer with a general price list, which shows the price of each funeral good and service offered. 

Funerals are among the most expensive purchases many consumers make. The Funeral Rule enables consumers to take time in 

extraordinary stress to make informed purchasing decisions, but 

the Funeral Rule probably does not, as it’s currently written, apply 

to the awful events at Burr Oak Cemetery. However, I’m here to 

offer some other options, as we look forward to working with the 

Subcommittee on how these options can be utilized in the future. 

First, as I’ve already stated, the FTC is ready to investigate the 

activities at Burr Oak as possible unfair, accepted acts or practices 

under the FTC Act should that prove warranted in light of the Illinois criminal and civil enforcement actions. 

Second, the FTC could address such activities as we’ve heard 

about Burr Oak through our Rule. However, because the FTC’s 

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ten, despite the time-consuming effort, and, to be honest, there are 

also other problems with using that approach. 

Third, the FTC’s often used workshops, hearings, and studies to 

promote better protection for consumers. The FTC may be able to 

use these same tools to explore problems and solutions to the terrible tragedy we heard about today, including learning more about 

what state and local authorities are doing with regard to problems 

such as this, and discussing whether there might be a role for federal government, a role for models, or other kinds of solutions. 

Finally, the important part of the FTC’s consumer protection program is the education of consumers and businesses. With respect 

to the Funeral Rule, the FTC has published materials in English 

and Spanish to help consumers understand their rights and help 

businesses understand their legal obligations. Better education of 

consumers about cemeteries and burial options, and address questions such as those that we heard Reverend Jackson raise about 

looking at contracts and what they mean, there may well be a role 

here for additional consumer education, and the FTC’s prepared to 

undertake a new consumer education initiative if that appears to 

be helpful. 

Mr. Chairman, the FTC welcomes the opportunity to work with 

the Subcommittee and its staff on these options. We want to do 

what we can to ensure others do not experience the profound grief 

the families with loved ones buried at Burr Oak Cemetery have 

been forced to endure. Thank you, sir. 

[The statement of Mr. Charles Harwood follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. Thank you. 

The Chair now recognizes the Comptroller of the State of Illinois, 

the Honorable Daniel W. Hynes, for five minutes. 

Welcome and—Comptroller Hynes, you have—you’re recognized 

for five minutes. 

STATEMENT OF HONORABLE DANIEL W. HYNES, ILLINOIS 

STATE COMPTROLLER, OFFICE OF THE COMPTROLLER 

Mr. HYNES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Subcommittee. I appreciate the invitation here today, and am very glad 

that the federal government and this Subcommittee, in particular, 

is taking a look at this issue, because we certainly have great concern about the lack of oversight and regulation of the cemetery industry. And I also want to express my deepest sympathy for the 

families and friends who have gone through this tragedy, who had 

to suffer the loss of a loved one for a second time. 

As I went to the cemetery and visited with family members, their 

grief was overwhelming. Their frustration, their anger, their disappointed—their confusion was absolutely clear, and they’re looking for answers, and I think that they’re going to be comforted by 

the fact that this Subcommittee is taking a look at this issue. 

The tragic events at Burr Oak Cemetery serve as a touchstone 

and a focal point for those of us in public office. It provides a perspective and an orientation that has truly reshaped the debate, at 

every level of government, on the regulation of the death care industry. Thanks to recent media reports, the public and policymakers are now acutely aware of the gaps in the current regulatory system. 

Let me begin, first, by describing that system and also some 

things you may already know. Currently, the federal government 

exercises very little regulatory authority and oversight of the death 

care industry. The FTC provides some consumer protections when 

dealing with funeral homes and door-to-door sales, but, generally, 

regulation is left to the states. 

As members of the Committee explore this issue, you will quickly 

find that state regulations vary widely from state to state. Consumer disclosures, entrustment requirements, licensing, inspections, recordkeeping requirements, the nature of the real property 

interests involved, maintenance standards, public health standards, permits, exemptions for certain types of cemeteries are all 

varying widely state to state and they’re handled different ways; 

sometimes through a statute, sometimes through common law, 

sometimes through local ordinance. This is a fractured and sometimes even contradictory system of rules. 

I do not hold myself out as an expert in comparative cemetery 

law; however, I can speak to my experience in Illinois in trying to 

address the very real concerns of consumers dealing with the death 

care industry. 

As Comptroller, my office has limited legal authority over cemeteries, specifically focusing on consumer funds accepted by the cemetery that are held in trust, with trust earnings to be used for the 

care of the cemetery. The office also licenses funeral homes and 

cemeteries that sell pre-need arrangements in advance of death. 

Under those licenses, the pre-need funds are held in trust until 


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needed, to cover the funeral and cemetery costs at the time of 

death. The office requires annual financial reporting and conducts 

audits to ensure financial compliance. Local government, religious, 

and fraternal organization cemeteries register with the office, but 

are not licensed or audited by the office because state law specifically exempts them. 

Thus, in Illinois, the Office of the Comptroller has a limited role 

in overseeing entrustment at a limited number of cemeteries and 

funeral homes. 

The state Department of Financial and Professional Regulation 

issues licenses for funeral directors and embalmers. The state’s Department of Health has certain regulations pursuant to the state 

Vital Records Act concerning permits, death certificates, and the 

like; however, there is no regulation of most at-need sales, there is 

no real regulation of cemetery maintenance, and there is, at best, 

minimal oversight of non-trust fund recordkeeping. In short, there 

is a regulatory vacuum in Illinois and, I suspect, many other 

states. 

A decade ago, when I was first elected Comptroller, I held hearings around the state about cemetery and funeral home issues. The 

most common complaint was inadequate and poor maintenance of 

cemeteries. Thus, when we proposed legislation reforms to address 

these concerns, we included a minimum maintenance standard 

upon cemeteries. Unfortunately, that provision did not make it 

through the legislative process, largely, I believe, because of the influence of special interests in the state Capitol. However, we were 

able to successfully expand some consumer protections within the 

limited areas of pre-need sales and care-funded entrustments. 

Earlier this month, spurred by the impetus of the tragedy at 

Burr Oak Cemetery, a broad group of people came together to propose comprehensive legislation to address the regulatory issues involved. Led by our office, we worked with RainbowPUSH, the Cook 

County State’s Attorney, Sheriff, and Recorder of Deeds, individual 

legislators, staff, and others. Unfortunately, our legislation stalled 

in the Committee. 

Let me share the highlights of this legislation that we proposed: 

Number one, we would require all cemeteries and their staff who 

sell cemetery plots to be licensed. Small cemeteries with fewer than 

25 annual burials would be exempted. The Illinois Department of 

Financial and Professional Regulation, which already licenses a 

wide range of professions, would issue licenses and rules. Licensees 

would be required to adhere to a code of conduct and undergo continuing education. 

Second, cemeteries would be required to provide reasonable 

maintenance based on enforceable standards detailed in both statute and agency rules. 

Next, cemeteries would be required to keep detailed records and 

maps, file a copy of those records with the county recorder of deeds, 

and provide the information to consumers. 

Funeral directors would need to provide specific information 

about burial locations and information that would be available on 

the death certificate on file at the county clerk’s office. 


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Our legislation would create a consumer bill of rights, including 

requiring cemeteries to provide consumers with a booklet detailing 

their rights under law. 

Also, our legislation would extend crime victims assistance eligibility to family members of those who are victims of the crimes 

charged at Burr Oak Cemetery pursuant to the Crime Victims 

Compensation Act. 

And, finally, the minimum threshold for the state’s allowance for 

indigent burials would be increased and provide for a cost-of-living 

increase every fiscal year. 

The text of our legislation is contained in Senate Amendment 1 

to Senate Bill 662, and is available on the Illinois General Assembly’s Web site. 

I realize that criminals are oftentimes not deterred by the laws 

we pass, but I believe that adequate regulations and consumer protections can reduce the chances that we will ever have to deal with 

another tragedy on the scale of Burr Oak Cemetery. 

Thank you very much. 

[The statement of Honorable Daniel W. Hynes follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. Chair thanks to the gentleman. 

The Chair now recognizes Mr. Slocum for five minutes, for an 

opening statement. 

Mr. SLOCUM. Good morning. 

Mr. RUSH. Morning. 

Mr. SLOCUM. Is this on? 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Yes. 

STATEMENT OF JOSHUA SLOCUM, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

FUNERAL CONSUMER ALLIANCE 

Mr. SLOCUM. Thank you very much. I very much appreciate the 

opportunity to speak to this panel today. 

Funeral Consumers Alliance, for those of you who don’t know, is 

a national, non-profit federation of largely volunteer-run educational societies that show people how to shop around for funeral 

and cemetery purchases, tell them what their legal rights are, show 

them wise planning that fits their budget, and we act as a repository of consumer complaints and industry practices around the 

country. 

We receive probably 10,000 calls and e-mails a year, just in the 

small national headquarters office that I work in, from consumers 

all over the country, and I wish I could say that this was a surprise 

to me, what happened at Burr Oak, but it is not. And I hope that 

this will be one of the last times that I am ever invited on behalf 

of FCA to speak on these issues. 

We were involved in the 1970s and ’80s in pushing for the original adoption of the Funeral Rule, which is a landmark consumer 

bill of rights the Federal Trade Commission’s Mr. Harwood mentioned. For more than 15 years, we have been asking, both through 

the media, through our publications, through Congressional testimony, and testimony before the Federal Trade Commission, for the 

Rule to be expanded to cover cemeteries so that at least consumers 

had the minimum legal disclosures, the minimum right to printed 

prices and rules and regulations, and this has fallen on deaf ears, 

despite the Menorah Gardens scandal, the Jewish cemeteries in 

Florida, despite the Tri-State Crematory disaster, which sparked 

Senator Dodd to propose a bill in 2002 and 2004, which we assisted 

in researching, which went to an unmarked grave, and this bill 

would have finally codified the Funeral Rule. No, I recognize disclosure rules by themselves are not going to prevent these tragedies, 

but there needs to be a culture of accountability in cemeteries that 

is woefully lacking. 

Funeral homes have to meet minimums, as many of the other 

witnesses have said. Cemeteries can get away with these sorts of 

things with impunity. And I want to give you some examples from 

other families around the country who don’t get a chance to be 

heard by Congressional Committees or by anyone, really, because, 

as I was researching the cemetery regulatory agencies around the 

country, very quickly, for this hearing, I found an absolute hodgepodge. It’s ridiculous. In some places, we have the insurance commissioner regulates cemeteries. In other places, the Vital Statistics 

Department ostensibly regulates cemeteries. In other places, 

there’s a dedicated cemetery board. Some of them audit on site, 

most of them don’t. Some of them audit the burial records against 


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the sales, some of them don’t. Some of them look to see whether 

the prepaid perpetual care funds are there, some of them don’t. 

One thing is clear—I’m an expert in researching cemetery and 

funeral law—your average grieving family has no chance at all, in 

any state, of figuring out whether there’s even an agency to file a 

complaint with. This is well, well past time for federal regulation. 

I have heard for many years, ‘‘State’s rights. This is a state’s rights 

issue.’’ This cannot be a state’s rights issue anymore, particularly 

with so many cemeteries owned by multinational or national 

chains. 

So, let me tell you about a few things, please, that consumers 

have told us. Problems are far deeper—it’s terrible to think of your 

loved ones being dug up. Nothing could be more shocking. But 

there are simmering scandals that go on that have to do with taking financial abuse of grieving people, particularly the elderly, the 

mismanagement and stealing of more than a billion dollars in consumers’ prepaid funeral and burial money just in the past three 

years. 

So, the FTC Funeral Rule tells funeral homes they have to give 

consumers price lists, they have to give them truthful information, 

and they have to allow them to pick and choose goods and services 

on their own. Cemeteries don’t have to do this, except in a minority 

of states. So we get situations like Mrs. B, a widow from Virginia, 

who called about four years ago and said she was shopping ahead 

of time for a cemetery plot in the metro DC area, and the Jewish 

form of burial in a plain, pine box without an outer concrete vault 

appealed to her. And, so, she went to a cemetery and said, ‘‘I didn’t 

want a lot of folderol, so I asked the cemetery if I could be buried 

in the plain, pine box that they used next-door at King David Memorial Gardens, instead of the polypropylene or the concrete grave 

liners.’’ And the saleswoman at this national chain-owned cemetery, which also owns funeral homes, told her, ‘‘The federal government won’t let you be buried in a pine box. That’s only for the 

Jews.’’ 

Not only is that a deliberate lie—the government does not tell 

you you can’t be buried that way—but had that cemetery been covered under the Funeral Rule, this would have been a violation of 

the Funeral Rule the FTC could have at least noted. 

And just as important—if I can just finish up, please. Thank you. 

Mr. RUSH. Sure. 

Mr. SLOCUM. There is a national financial scandal going on with 

prepaid funeral and burial money which must be addressed. We 

have all had our eyes on Wall Street, and so many regulators are 

now saying, ‘‘We’ve got to take care of people on Main Street because of the financial shenanigans going on at Wall Street,’’ and it’s 

causing us to rethink the laissez faire attitude that we’ve taken for 

so long. 

What’s going on in the—with prepaid funeral money—it’s all over 

my desk. I have a stack this high of news stories from the past two 

years, and nobody, nationally, seems to be connecting the dots. We 

have a company called National Prearranged Services that sold 

burial and funeral services to consumers in at least 19 states, 

200,000 families. They are now in receivership in the State of 

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ceiver found that they have almost a billion dollars in negative equity. That means a billion dollars that they need to pay out for 

these eventual funerals and burials, but they’re not going to. Seventy million dollars in Michigan, $21 million in Mr. Cohen’s State 

of Tennessee with Forest Hill Cemeteries, and on and on. 

Again, a couple of the other witnesses—and they’re right—have 

said that there is no law that can be written that is going to prevent criminal behavior in every instance, but we can start deterring it and we can start curtailing it. But, respectfully, I must disagree with Mr. Harwood and say a consumer education campaign 

from the FTC is laudable, but it is nowhere near enough. We have 

provided the Federal Trade Commission, both in hearings in 1999 

and in personal communications, box after box after box of documented cemetery abuses and funeral abuses for more than ten 

years, and to have the FTC close the Funeral Rule review without 

extending it to cemeteries in 2008 was shocking to us. 

So, what we are asking, please, on behalf of every funeral consumer, every grieving family in America, please bring all death-related businesses under the Funeral Rule and codify the Rule to 

give it a Congressional mandate; two, create national minimum 

standards for recordkeeping and state regulation and inspection of 

cemeteries, to give the states at least a template to begin from; 

and, number three, please require responsible, complete deposit of 

all consumers’ prepaid funeral and burial money uniformly across 

the board, and give consumers the right to the transfer of that 

money or the refund if life circumstances change. 

Thank you very much. 

[The statement of Mr. Joshua Slocum follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. Thank you. 

Mr. Lapin, you’re recognized for five minutes. 

STATEMENT OF HARVEY LAPIN, GENERAL COUNSEL, ILLINOIS 

CEMETERY AND FUNERAL HOME ASSOCIATION 

Mr. LAPIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for inviting 

me. 

I’m Harvey Lapin. I’m the General Counsel of the Illinois Cemetery and Funeral Home Association, and I’m testifying here on 

their behalf. As the Association, we strongly condemn the crimes 

that have allegedly been committed at Burr Oak Cemetery. What 

the involved employees apparently did violates everything our industry stands for. Their actions were not only horrible and appalling, they were criminal. ICFHA was established in 1928, and we 

have over 300 members covering the whole spectrum in the different types of cemeteries in this country. We have religious cemetery members, municipal members, fraternal members, and small, 

family-owned cemeteries, small funeral homes, combination funeral 

homes, all the way across the board, and that is one of the problems that we have with regulating the industry. There is a broad 

spectrum of different types of cemeteries, and we can’t paint them 

with the same brush. So that’s one of the areas of concern. 

As far as Illinois is concerned, I was—we were shocked when it 

was indicated that there were no laws in Illinois that dealt with 

this problem, because that is absolutely not true. The Illinois Cemetery Protection Act clearly applies to this situation. And I must 

say, this is a criminal investigation, and we must be very careful 

not to do anything to cause a problem with that criminal investigation. However, the Cemetery Protection Act clearly provides any 

person that willfully destroys or damages the remains of a deceased human being or desecrates human remains will be guilty of 

a Class 3 felony. 

Two, any person that willfully removes any portion of the remains of a deceased human being from a cemetery is guilty of a 

Class 4 felony. 

Three, any person who defaces or vandalizes, injures, or removes 

a grave marker or memorial is guilty of a Class 4 up to Class 2 

felony, depending on the number removed. 

This is the current law in Illinois, and I don’t think there’s any 

question as to its application. We increased the penalties in that 

law several years ago, and I think our legislature now wants to increase them again. We have absolutely no opposition to doing so. 

Each violation would be a separate violation under that law, so you 

can take the penalties, and they will be great against these people 

if they are convicted. In addition to that, there are other laws in 

Illinois that apply. 

The Comptroller’s here today, and the Comptroller’s Office has 

jurisdiction over cemetery laws and trust laws and other laws that 

apply to the cemeteries in the state that are covered, and directly 

told you that there are entities that are exempt from that law. But, 

basically, the private-operated cemeteries, including Burr Oak, are 

covered by that law. And those laws can take felony-count penalties 

for certain acts, which, after the dust has settled in this situation, 


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it is probable that Burr Oak will be subject to some of these penalties. 

We have provided you with a resource memo that has a lot of information about the Illinois laws and also the position of the Association on these issues. In addition, to the specific cemetery laws 

that were violated, there are other laws of Illinois that apply. We 

have criminal laws here. These people allegedly engaged in theft of 

property, and they took the property of other people and used it for 

some other purpose. They engaged in theft by deception, all under 

the State’s Attorney and Attorney General’s Office, and they are investigating on that basis. 

In addition to that, they violated, in our opinion, the Unfair Deceptive Practice Law, which ties into the Federal Trade Commission Unfair and Deceptive Practices. There is a national standard, 

and each state has laws that interrelate with that national standard. The Attorney General’s Office of the State of Illinois also administers that law, and if there’s a specific violation, the Cemetery 

Care Act and Cemetery’s Pre-Need Sales Act, the Attorney General’s Office can incorporate those specific violations under their 

law. 

So, it is our position that there is extensive law in Illinois that 

was violated here. The Association stands as a resource to this 

panel and to any other panel, and we are here to assist, because 

of this terrible problem, in helping the families. And I, too, am very 

sad when I listened to the testimony from a family member who 

had this problem. 

The Association, we have a consumer complaint vehicle, and you 

can contact us. ICFHA.org has the form for downloading. We handle many complaints on a yearly basis. The Comptroller’s Office 

has a 800 number for complaints. Many times, they refer complaints over to the Association to handle, because we’re able to deal 

with it better than they can, and deal with the peer pressure. 

We’ve been very successful. There also is a national complaint procedure that was established many, many years ago. 

[The statement of Mr. Harvey Lapin follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. Thank you, Mr. Lapin. 

The Chair now recognizes Mr. Leak for five minutes, for an opening statement. 

STATEMENT OF SPENCER LEAK, JR., LEAK AND SONS 

FUNERAL HOME 

Mr. LEAK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

First of all, my heart goes out to all of the families affected by 

the Burr Oak situation. Again, to Congressman Rush, to your distinguished panel, Mr. Cohen from Tennessee, I’m a cousin to Harold Ford, Jr. I know you know his family very well. 

As an African American funeral director, I’m appalled at the 

crimes that have taken place at the historical Burr Oak Cemetery. 

In addition to the number of people that meant so much to so 

many, such as Emmett Till, Dinah Washington, and members of 

the Negro League Baseball Team, my grandparents and greatgrandparents are buried there, as well. 

How this happened, we hope to find out soon, as the investigation continues. Why this happened, we may never know. But, more 

importantly, could this have been prevented? My answer is yes. 

As a licensed funeral director and embalmer, I have gone to and 

graduated from Mortuary Science School, passed the national 

board examination, participated in a summer’s internship, as well 

as a year of apprenticeship. I have now been practicing for almost 

20 years; however, those who work at cemeteries in Illinois and 

maybe even across the country are required to have no formal educational training in the funeral service field at all. 

When someone makes their transition, a licensed funeral director 

has to remove them from their place of death. If my firm does otherwise, I can be fined and disciplined. When one sits down to make 

funeral arrangements, they must be licensed, or I can be fined and 

disciplined. If I don’t give the family an itemized price list, as required by the FTC, I can be fined and disciplined. When a deceased 

is to be embalmed, one must be embalmed by a licensed embalmer, 

or my firm can be fined and disciplined. Finally, when a loved one 

is driven to the cemetery, the deceased must be taken by a licensed 

funeral director. If this does not happen, the funeral home can be 

fined and disciplined. 

So, why does the cemetery, then, have no regulated responsibility? Funeral homes across the country are highly regulated. 

Cemeteries should be, as well. Had Burr Oak been under some 

type of regulatory responsibility, then I feel this tragedy would 

never have taken place. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Spencer Leak, Jr. follows:] 


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Mr. RUSH. We thank all the witnesses for their opening statement. The Chair recognizes himself for two minutes, for the purposes of questioning the witnesses. 

Mr. Slocum, your testimony provides a vivid description of many 

abuses that have taken place at cemeteries across the country, and 

you make it crystal clear that the incident at Burr Oak, while particularly horrendous, may not be an isolated event. And if we are 

to start reforming our laws to curb some of the abuses and injuries 

we’ve witnessed at Burr Oak and elsewhere, where do you think 

we should start? 

And let me ask you if you would direct your remarks, beginning 

with the issue that was raised by the previous panel, in that there 

are different contractual arrangements for different lengths of time. 

Most of the consumers think and operate on the—either their illusion or this is the fact—that, when they purchase a plot, then that 

plot is theirs for—— 

Mr. SLOCUM. Correct. 

Mr. RUSH [continuing]. For eternity. Can you address that concern, with the different types of contracts that are now in practice 

by cemetery associations? 

Mr. SLOCUM. Yes, sir. Before I was informed by a reporter that 

there were these term contracts, or it was—there were alleged to 

be these term contracts, where the grave would be, in a sense, 

rented for a period of time, I had not heard of that in the United 

States. That practice is not uncommon in many European countries—the Netherlands, Greece—but this is known. It’s part of the 

culture. People can decide whether or not they wish to rent a grave 

for a certain amount of time or have it in perpetuity. I had not 

heard that here, so that was a surprise to me. I can tell you that 

I have never—and I’ve spoken to thousands and thousands of consumer families—I have never talked to one who would make anything other than the assumption that that grave was a permanent 

resting place. No one. 

Mr. Chairman, you asked me where would I start in terms of 

regulation. I think reasonable people can disagree about the details, or hash them out, but I think some broad, general guidelines 

that would be reasonable would be: Number one, starting at the 

bottom and bringing cemeteries up to the same minimal standards 

of disclosure and written disclosures to consumers, written disclosures about prices, about their rights to pick and choose goods and 

services, and what those mean, like Mr. Leak said. He’s absolutely 

right; funeral directors have to abide by these things, and, yet, 

regulatorily, we look at cemeteries as if they are something else entirely. 

The consumer sees the death-care transaction as all of a piece; 

the cemetery, the funeral home, the crematory, the third-party casket seller. 

Secondly, state regulation of funeral homes is better than that of 

cemeteries, but it is not so great, either. One of the major problems 

for regulation of death care is the absolute dominance by industry 

insiders. States where there are funeral or cemetery boards that 

adjudicate consumer complaints and seg rules, they are stacked to 

the gills with industry. North Carolina, for example, Mr. 

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neral board in North Carolina, and, by statute, two of the largest 

funeral trade associations, the lobbying groups, can appoint a total, 

I believe, of six of those, and the governor has to choose from those 

appointees. 

This sort of insider dealing is not serving families, and that’s not 

the only—I don’t mean to single out North Carolina, and, certainly, 

you, sir, are not personally responsible for that. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. I appreciate that. 

Mr. SLOCUM. But we see this all over the place. In fact, in Georgia, where the Tri-State Crematory disaster happened in 2002, 

Georgia’s response to this—to a consumer advocate’s perspective 

was nonsensical. What they said was, ‘‘OK. We’ll say that 

crematories now have to deal only with funeral homes, and we will 

achieve oversight, because funeral directors themselves are regulated.’’ There’s nothing to say that crematories who serve the public 

or cemeteries that serve the public can’t do so and be licensed and 

regulated on their own terms. 

And, in fact, political dealing has stopped cemetery regulation 

from really getting to the place where consumers can use it. Much 

of the oversight of cemeteries in Georgia used to happen in the Secretary of State’s Office, but political maneuvering put a bill 

through in 2006 which took a lot of that away from the Secretary 

of State and gave the regulation of these cemeteries to a newly created cemetery board dominated by cemetery owners. And, in fact, 

some of the things that funeral homes could be fined by the FTC 

for doing—bundling goods, saying, ‘‘I won’t give you a funeral service unless you buy my casket in-house—states like Georgia say it’s 

absolutely fine for cemeteries; they can charge consumers $125 

penalty for buying a less expensive monument to save money on a 

loved ones’ funeral from outside the cemetery. 

So we need some national standards, we need at least disclosures, and we need some guidelines for the states that would give 

them minimums on what to look for in recordkeeping and auditing, 

both financially and in terms of the location of graves. And it would 

be awfully nice if the federal government would address the problem of regulatory capture so that consumers had someplace to go 

to complain that wasn’t a panel of business owners representing 

the industry they have a complaint against. 

Thank you. 

Mr. RUSH. The Chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Illinois, Ms. Schakowsky, for two minutes of questioning. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Lapin, is your association that you—is the 

association you represent the same as the one referred to in Mr. 

Slocum’s testimony, the Illinois Funeral Directors Association? 

Mr. LAPIN. No. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. No. That’s a different—— 

Mr. LAPIN. This is a separate association, and we represent a different group of individuals, and we have nothing to do with the 

IFDA problem. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. OK. And are you suggesting, though, that 

there is no more need for regulation because the industry is sufficiently regulated? The cemeteries are sufficiently regulated? 

Mr. LAPIN. I am not suggesting that. I am indicating that there 

is a problem of regulation. Our Association represents a very broad 


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spectrum. The Comptroller indicated that a proposed law was introduced into the senate of Illinois, and it got held up. It was not 

held up by our association; it was held up by a very large religious 

cemetery in the City of Chicago, because they had not had an opportunity to review it. 

So, this is part of the problem that you’re going to be dealing 

with, is you have a lot of varied interest. And I was at a hearing 

for the Federal Trade Commission where the Arch Dioceses cemeteries came in and basically said, ‘‘You have no right to regulate 

us.’’ And that was their position, and it is basically a separation of 

church and state that they’re taking that position. So this is the 

problem. 

We actually worked on the bill that the Comptroller’s Office put 

in. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. OK. 

Mr. LAPIN. We got it late one night, and we went over it, we 

made some technical changes, and we were ready and willing to 

support it the next day in the senate. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Thank you. 

Mr. Harwood, first of all, let me say that, you know, you began 

by congratulating the prompt response, and I would say, in this 

particular instance, I would agree with that. But what we’re hearing is that this has been a lingering problem, and that it needs to 

be addressed. 

You had mentioned, as one of the possible ways, rule-making, 

but you stated that it is a very cumbersome process, and we keep 

running into that; this Committee—this Subcommittee does. And I 

wondered if you would comment on the burdens of the MagnusonMoss Rule, in terms of, I mean, consumers might think, ‘‘Well, why 

doesn’t the FTC just deal with it?’’ Can you describe the difficulty? 

Mr. HARWOOD. Thank you, Representative Schakowsky. 

The rule-making process the FTC currently operates under requires us to go through multiple steps before we can write a new 

rule or amend a rule. Last time we amended the Funeral Rule, for 

instance, it took us about four years to do it. Presumably, we are 

talking about something along that line again if we attempted to 

do it again. It’s simply not what most people think of as a quick 

process; it requires hearings, testimony, input from people. It also 

requires us to conclude that there is a widespread problem, and it’s 

a prevalent problem facing us. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Thank you. 

Mr. Leak, we had a conversation before the hearing, where you 

were saying that, while you have no control, at all, over any cemetery, that you are now being swamped by calls of recordkeeping 

that’s not within your hands. So, would you recommend that— 

how—what is your answer to that problem that you face? 

Mr. LEAK. Thank you. When Reverend Jackson was here earlier, 

he mentioned about death certificates having the plot numbers and 

grave numbers on them. That was my idea that I gave to him and 

to the Board—to the panel that the Governor has set up. 

In Illinois, the death certificates have now gone electronic. The 

doctor has to go online and take care of certain items. We, as the 

funeral home, have to go online and file the death certificate. If, 

maybe within two weeks or so after the burial of a loved one, the 


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cemetery would be required by law to go online and amend that 

death certificate with the plot number, with the grave number, 

with the section number on the death certificate, then, had this 

been happening already, this problem wouldn’t have come around. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. What do you think, Mr. Slocum? Or, is there 

another way to handle the issue of information and disclosure of 

where the plot is. 

Mr. SLOCUM. Well, I’d have to think about it. I know that, in 

many states, the death certificates have required—there’s a—I 

don’t know what—you know Illinois’ better. It says ‘‘Place of final 

disposition.’’ 

Mr. LEAK. Only the cemetery—— 

Mr. SLOCUM. It should—it says, ‘‘Only cemetery.’’ 

Mr. LEAK. Right. 

Mr. SLOCUM. I would wonder, technically, how feasible that 

would be, because what I’ve seen is—— 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Well, let me ask you this then: How would one 

assure that people could find out that information? 

Mr. SLOCUM. Well, I think the recordkeeping needs to start with 

the cemetery, and it needs to go with the state, as well. I think 

there need to be requirements that are verified by random audits 

and inspections by the state that the property has been surveyed, 

the grids are proper, the numbering system is consistent, that the 

number that is—perhaps, a number could be assigned to a death 

certificate, or it could be, in some way, correlated so that when 

somebody has a bill of sale for a grave that says, ‘‘Grandma is in 

E–1234,’’ that there is a record back in the cemetery office, possibly, that is also kept with the state regulatory office, where that 

can at least be cross-checked. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. So, in any case, you feel that the state or some 

regulatory agency should also have that number, so that we’re not 

just relying on the—— 

Mr. SLOCUM. Oh, absolutely. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY [continuing]. Cemetery. OK. 

Mr. SLOCUM. The recordkeeping in cemeteries, even those with 

good intentions, is in absolute shambles. We’re talking about paper 

filing cards, you know, from years and years ago that people may 

not even know exist in some cases. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. I read, in some of the materials provided, that 

Burr Oak had nothing, at all—zero—for the year 2005, for example. 

Mr. Hynes, so what’s the prognosis on legislation in Illinois? 

Mr. HYNES. Well, Representative, if I may just add to the previous comments about recordkeeping, our legislation would have 

many layers of disclosure required; the cemetery would be required 

to keep accurate books and records of burial locations. They would 

be required to give a copy of that to the consumer. The funeral director would be required to put the exact location of the burial plot 

on the death certificate. It would be filed with the county clerk’s 

office. And then, ultimately, the burial plot would be also filed with 

the recorder of deed’s office. 

So there would be, you know, multiple levels of public recordkeeping, which I think is important. 


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Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Are you finding the opposition that—of the 

kind that Mr. Slocum described? 

Mr. HYNES. Yes. I mean, throughout my ten years in office, we 

have met with great resistance on many of our reform proposals by 

the industry. And I also would probably add that there—part of it 

is the fact there’s just—you know, they’re strong institutions, very 

locally based, where every legislative district has many cemeteries, 

many funeral homes, and the owners of those are, you know, very 

well connected in a lot of ways. 

And then, there’s also a significant representation in the general 

assembly itself of people in the industry, and they’re very widely 

working behind the scenes in resisting our legislation. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Just to know, the media might be interested 

in a picture of some of the files that were taken at Burr Oak, which 

are all moldy—we can show them to you after—that are all moldy 

and clearly unusable, really. 

Thank you all. Mr. Lapin. 

Mr. LAPIN. I’d like to clarify the record here, because you’re 

showing a file of a cemetery that is not necessarily the norm. Many 

of the private-operated cemeteries have computer records, they 

have backups in another location of their computer records, and 

they have all the information that can be provided. 

Where the problem, as I’m indicating, is there are different 

types, and you have small, rural cemeteries that really have volunteer people on their staff or don’t even have a staff, and if we propose a requirement on these small, rural cemeteries, many of them 

will now go to the municipalities and say, ‘‘Here are the keys. We 

can’t handle this anymore.’’ So, that is the problem. The modern, 

for-profit cemeteries are maintaining these records. 

I’d also like to say something; in Illinois, the burial right is an 

easement. The Supreme Court of Illinois determined, in 1919 that 

it is an easement in real estate; it is not a fee title to the property. 

The reason it isn’t is that the cemetery has to come in and take 

care of the property per whatever contract it enters into with the 

consumers for the care, and if it was a fee simple, they’d have to 

enter into a separate agreement with each consumer. They have 

the overall responsibility for the—taking care of the cemetery to 

the extent that they agree to do it. 

Mr. RUSH. The Chair thanks you. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. My time has expired. 

Mr. RUSH. Your time has expired. 

The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina, 

Mr. Butterfield, for two minutes. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Some of my friends who are funeral directors and morticians are 

telling me that cemeteries are getting into the funeral business; 

that, as a condition of the sale of a plot of land, that they’re requiring consumers to purchase their products, meaning that they’re required to purchase their headstones and the markers directly from 

the cemetery. And even some are requiring that the caskets be purchased from the cemetery. Tell me about that, Mr. Leak, if you’re 

aware of it. 

Mr. LEAK. Yes, that is happening here in Illinois and across the 

country. 


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Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Tell me quickly. We only have a two-minute 

lead, you know. 

Mr. LEAK. We—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Yes. 

Mr. LEAK. We find, every day, that, when a family comes to us 

and we begin to hand them the price list for the caskets and other 

items, that they tell us they’ve already purchased the casket. It 

will be here on such-and-such a day. The headstone is done. The 

gravist had already been paid for. The only thing that they want 

from us is our professional service. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. But are cemeteries selling these products. 

Mr. LEAK. Cemeteries, yes, are selling caskets here in Illinois. I 

don’t know about across the country, but—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Cemeteries that are not morticians, that are 

not licensed as morticians. 

Mr. LEAK. That is correct, but I understand these cemetery—the 

owners also own funeral homes, as well. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. I see. Mr. Slocum, you want to illuminate on 

that. 

Mr. SLOCUM. Yes. I think the problem here is tying and bundling. First of all, no one should be alarmed that somebody other 

than a mortician is selling a casket. You don’t need a license to 

sell—basically, to sell a casket. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Should you have a license to sell a casket? 

Mr. SLOCUM. Pardon? A license? No, sir. I don’t believe you 

should have a license to sell a casket. I think, if you’re going to be 

a seller of funeral goods and services, that you need to be subject 

to the same disclosure rules that the FTC rule already has for morticians. But, no. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Let me get a rebuttal from Mr. Leak. 

Mr. LEAK. Well, I disagree. I’m thinking that especially outside 

casket companies should—well, there should be a licensed funeral 

director that works for the casket company for this one reason— 

just an example—a family orders a casket from a casket company 

before coming to us. The casket is sent to the funeral home. The 

person will not fit inside of the casket. Had there been a licensed 

funeral director at the outside casket company, that licensed funeral director would have counseled the family directly at letting 

them know or asking the question, ‘‘Do you’’—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. It seems—— 

Mr. LEAK. ‘‘Do you think’’—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. It seems—— 

Mr. LEAK [continuing]. ‘‘Your loved one will fit in this casket?’’ 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD [continuing]. When you purchase a casket, 

that’s a very sensitive and delicate time in the life of a family, and 

you need a professional—— 

Mr. LEAK. Yes. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD [continuing]. Someone who’s taken an oath, 

who understands what it’s all about. 

Let me turn your attention—and I only have one minute left— 

to the terms of the contract, when a consumer purchases a plot of 

land. Are there price disclosures? Does the cemetery say, ‘‘This is 

Section B, and the plots in this section are $1200?’’ Is there a price 

disclosure, Mr. Leak? 


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Mr. LEAK. See, that’s another problem here in Illinois. Had families been required to actually go out to the cemetery, talk to the 

cemetery personnel about what they’re purchasing, Burr Oak 

wouldn’t have taken place, as well. 

Families come to us and they expect us, the funeral home—funeral director, to order the cas—or, I’m sorry, order the grave over 

the phone. Now, had the family been required to go out to the cemetery, show them the actual grave location that they’re going to 

purchase, had been given an itemized price list of how much the 

opening and closing is, how much the concrete liner is, if they were 

purchasing a so-called select single, what that’s all about—we, as 

funeral homes, are now answering, as we are today, cemetery questions. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. But you have to disclose your prices. 

Mr. LEAK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Cemeteries do not have to disclose their 

prices. 

Mr. LEAK. No, sir. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. All right. That’s a problem. All right. 

All right. Are your clients given deeds to the property here in 

Chicago? 

Mr. LEAK. If they purchase a deeded grave at a certain cemetery, 

they’re given a deed. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. And what is expressed in that deed, and what 

is implied in that deed? Is it perpetual care. 

Mr. LEAK. Well, from what I understand, in some cemeteries, you 

have sections that have perpetual care. In those same cemeteries, 

you may have a section that doesn’t have perpetual care. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Is that included in the contract? 

Mr. LEAK. That, I don’t know, because I don’t see the contracts. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. All right, Mr. Lapin. You’re responding. Is 

that in the contract. 

Mr. LAPIN. Yes. It’s required by the Cemetery Care Act that, if 

you’re providing care, you have to give the consumer a certificate 

indicative of the care that you’re providing on that space. If you’re 

not providing care, then there would be no requirement. Most 

cemeteries would indicate that these spaces are being sold without 

care; however, this would be a section of the cemetery. You can’t 

say one space and say, ‘‘That one’s got care. This one doesn’t.’’ 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Finally, Mr. Lapin, are any of the cemeteries, 

that you’re aware of, requiring the consumer to use their products, 

especially headstones? 

Mr. LAPIN. That would be an illegal tie-in under the State of Illinois Antitrust laws and the federal antitrust laws, and the Funeral 

Rule prohibits tie-ins, also, so—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Without penalty to the consumer. 

Mr. LAPIN. No, you cannot tie in products and services, and that 

is why we have some independent sellers. And I agree with Mr. 

Slocum; you may not be aware, but Castro is a seller of caskets—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Yes. 

Mr. LAPIN [continuing]. In the states that it legally can. So, yes. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. I think my time is in the red. Thank you. 

I yield back. 

Mr. RUSH. The Chair thanks the gentleman. 


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The gentleman from the 7th Congressional District, Congressman Davis, five minutes—two minutes, rather. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Let me, first of all, commend you, Mr. Leak. I had the occasion 

yesterday, as a matter of fact, to visit the 79th Street and Congress 

Road Chapel of Leak and Sons, and I saw this long line of records 

that were out in the open so that individuals who wanted to try 

and see if they could find them, could come in, have access to them 

without any fanfare or difficulty, and I was very pleased to see 

that, and I commend your family for doing that. 

The one question that I have is to you, Comptroller Hynes, since 

you deal with distributing money. I must confess that I did some 

research relative to federal statutes, and it seems to me that—and 

I also went to the Justice Department, as well as the Congressional 

Research Service, and kind of looked into the issue. And it seems 

like they both imply that it’s pretty difficult to get additional federal regulations. I mean, they both sort of implied that. 

They implied, also, that there are also some federal activities 

that already exists if one carries it through to its conclusion, you 

know, with the U.S. Attorney. And all of this becomes kind of complex, in a sense. If we talk about additional regulations, are we 

going to end up talking about additional costs that the consumer 

ends up having to pay, or does it become so cost effective in relationship to government? In, you know, practically every state that 

I know, and every county that I know, every local government that 

I know is crying about its budget and whether or not it can pay 

for anything beyond what it’s currently paying for. 

So, how would you see that as—you know, in terms of the impact 

on the consumer? 

Mr. HYNES. Well, I think that the proposals we put forward at 

the state level could be implemented with minimal cost additions, 

both in terms of, you know, costs incurred by state regulatory authorities, as well as, I believe, cemeteries themselves. So, for example, in terms of the burial record and maintaining good public 

records, we spoke with the Recorder of Deeds office, and they felt 

that it would be pretty simple to expand their systems to incorporate the recording of cemetery plots and individual burial plots, 

as well. There may be some marginal costs in terms of implementing that, but they felt pretty comfortably they could do it. 

The Department of Professional Regulation would probably see 

some costs in terms of having to take over or sort of regulating the 

cemetery industry, but, you know, I’m confident that they would be 

able to do that within their existing budget. 

The cemeteries themselves will always say that they’re going to 

be—this is going to drive up costs. When we proposed, years ago, 

a maintenance standard for cemeteries, where, you know, people 

could be—could expect the lawn be mowed and there to be no flooding and the roads be paved, we were told by cemeteries that this 

would just drive costs through the roof, and I just don’t think that 

makes any sense. I mean, I think that there’s just some expectation 

already on the consumer’s part that these things would be done. 

And we also exempt—you know, Mr. Lapin mentioned about 

these small, community, ma-and-pa cemeteries. We exempted our 


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legislation to any cemetery that has 25 or fewer burials per year 

so that they wouldn’t be overwhelmed with these types of costs. 

So, I think the cost would be very minimal. 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. This has been 

very informative. I certainly, again, want to thank you for holding 

this hearing. 

Mr. RUSH. OK. The Chair would like to inform the members that 

we—and the witnesses, that we will have one additional question 

per each member. So, any additional—we’re approx-—we are gonna 

adjourn at 12:15, so we’re ahead of schedule. So we got one more 

additional question, and the Chair recognizes himself for one more 

question. 

In this area of separation within the cemetery industry between 

for-profit cemeteries and not-for-profit cemeteries, how significant 

is that problem, in terms of additional federal regulation, and how 

would you suggest that we overcome that particular problem? 

Mr. HARWOOD. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. RUSH. Mr. Harwood. 

Mr. HARWOOD [continuing]. With respect to the—yes. Thank you. 

Mr. RUSH. Go ahead. 

Mr. HARWOOD. The—under the FTC Act, there’s a provision that 

precludes us from regulating not-for-profit entities; Section four of 

the FTC Act. We looked at this issue in connection with expanding 

the Funeral Rule to cemeteries and found that a substantial number of cemeteries are, in fact, not-for-profit entities. 

Thus, for us to extend the Funeral Rule, it would be difficult to 

reach those under that—as, currently, no law for them exists, it 

would be difficult to reach those. 

As to how you get around that problem, you know, ideally, the 

easiest answer I can see is simply to change the law, but there may 

be other solutions. 

Mr. RUSH. OK. Comptroller Hynes, do you see that, and how 

would you advise us to move beyond the separation between notfor-profit and for-profit. 

Mr. HYNES. Well, I think that, certainly, there are historic obstacles or just presumptions that carve out exemptions for religious 

and fraternal cemeteries. But I think it’s something that has to be 

contemplated going forward. You know, we try to start with a 

broad reach and work from there in the legislative process. You 

know, you will find, you know, that there are concerns raised by 

religious entities, and then, even in the case of small, family cemeteries I mentioned, we had to carve out the exemption because 

there are some very small cemeteries that just couldn’t keep up 

with these types of costs. 

So I would say that, you know, it’s just something that we have 

to keep in mind, both at the state and federal level. 

Mr. RUSH. Do any other witnesses want to chime in on that. 

OK. The Chair recognizes the gentle lady from Illinois for one 

minute. One additional question, though. 

Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Yes. I just, actually, wanted to know, in the 

audience, are there other family members who had people at Burr 

Oak? 

I just wondered. Looks like we have people here. Thank you. I 

overused my time, I think, before, so I will yield back. Thank you. 


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Mr. RUSH. All right. Mr. Butterfield. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Are there any other funeral directors in the 

audience. 

All right. Thank you. 

Mr. Leak, I’m intrigued with your suggestion that somehow the 

grave location can very easily be placed on the death certificate. 

Mr. LEAK. Yes. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. Would that present any unusual problem or 

challenge for funeral homes to include that data, if it’s provided on 

the form? 

Mr. LEAK. Not at all. With the new system, the way it is now, 

the doctors have a password to go into the Internet and file their 

information. We then have a password to go into the Internet and 

file the death certificate. The cemeteries could then have a password to go in and amend the final death certificate that we have 

already—— 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. I think it’s a wonderful idea. I’m going to encourage the legislature in my state to take up the idea. In fact, I 

just sent an e-mail to my state legislator, who happens to be my 

ex-wife, suggesting that she might want to consider offering that 

as a bill in the North Carolina House. 

Mr. LEAK. You can make it the Spencer Leak, Jr. Funeral Rule. 

Mr. BUTTERFIELD. All right. Thanks to all of you. 

Mr. RUSH. Yes. The Chair thanks all the witnesses. You have 

greatly made an enormous contribution to the members of this 

Subcommittee. Again, I want to assure you that we will be proceeding under the permits, and there will be a federal standard, a 

federal legislature that will be introduced into the Congress in the 

near future, and we expect to pass it into law, we expect to see the 

President sign it. It will be something like the Bereaved Consumer 

Bill of Rights for the nation’s bereaved citizens. 

So, thank you so much, and we appreciate your testimony. Again, 

I want to tell the Committee, those who come from near and from 

afar, the Chair really appreciates your involvement, your time, and 

thank you again, and safe travels back to our nation’s capital. 

The Committee stands adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 

[Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:] 


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