1

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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5 

### Public Hearing for 6 

### Health and Environmental Protection 7 

### Standards for Uranium and 8 

### Thorium Mill Tailings 9

10

11

12

13 

### 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. 14 

### Thursday, May 14, 2015 15

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### Ramkota Hotel 17 

### 799 N. Poplar 18 

### Casper, Wyoming 82601 19

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### EPA Panel: 1


### DOUGLAS MINTER, Panel Chair, Chief of Underground 2 

### Injection Control Program, EPA, Region 8, 3 

### Denver Office 4


### INGRID ROSENCRANTZ , EPA, Office of Radiation and 5 

### Indoor Air, Washington, D.C. 6


### TOM PEAKE , EPA, Office of Radiation and Indoor 7 

### Air, Washington, D.C. 8

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### M O R N I N G S E S S I O N 1


### C O N T E N T S 2


### PAGE 3


### INTRODUCTION - DOUGLAS MINTER 5 4


### INGRID ROSENCRANTZ 9 5 

### RODNEY KNUDSON, Board Member, Powder River 12 6 

### Basin Resource Council 7 

### HELGA BULL, Executive Director of Douglas 16 8


### Area Chamber of Commerce 9 

### GEORGE HARTMAN, Citizen and Taxpayer 18 10 

### MARC ANDREEN, Owner, Twin Peaks Pump and 20 11 

### Supply 12 

### MIKE THOMAS, Vice-President, Regulatory and 22 13 

### Public Affairs for Uranerz Energy 14 

### Corporation and President, Wyoming Mining 15 

### Association 16 

### STEVE MUNDORF, Owner of Casper Well Products 26 17 

### TOM SCARLETT, Green Bit Tool 28 18 

### KATIE SWEENEY, General Counsel, National 29 19 

### Mining Association 20

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### C O N T E N T S (Cont.) 1


### PAGE 2 

### JOHN CASH, Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs 35 3 

### for Ur-Energy 4 

### LARRY REIMANN, Manager, Technical Services 42 5 

### and SHEQ for Cameco Resources 6 

### JIM CLAY, Senior Scientist, Cameco Resources 48 7 

### BILL NOVOTNY, Johnson County Commissioner, 55 8 

### representing Citizens of Johnson County 9 

### JIM HICKS, Johnson County Commissioner, 58 10 

### representing Citizens of Johnson County 11 

### WILLIAM GORANSON, Chief Operating Officer 62 12 

### and President, Uranerz Energy Corporation 13 

### WAYNE HEILI, President, Uranium Producers of 68 14 

### America 15 

### ERIC NELSON, Casper Area Chamber of Commerce 75 16 

### DONNA WICHERS, Board of Directors, Uranium 78 17 

### One Americas 18 

### BRAD SUTHERLAND, Citizen and Taxpayer 83 19 

### GLENN CATCHPOLE, Chief Executive Officer and 85 20 

### Director, Uranerz Energy Corporation 21 

### JIM CLAY, Senior Scientist, Cameco Resources 88 225

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1


### M O R N I N G S E S S I O N 2 

### MR. MINTER: Good morning. Welcome to 3 

### the folks that are attending for the first time. 4 

### I know some of you are returning from last night. 5 

### And if folks can get seated so we could get 6


### started? 7 

### My name is Douglas Minter, M-I-N-T-E-R. 8 

### I'm the Chief of the Underground Injection 9 

### Control Program out of the EPA's Denver office. 10 

### Thank you all for coming this morning. I will be 11 

### presiding over the hearing today. 12 

### And joining me on the panel up here are 13 

### Ingrid Rosencrantz and Tom Peake. They're both 14 

### from the Office of Radiation and Indoor Air at 15 

### EPA Headquarters, Washington, D.C. And this 16 

### hearing is now in session. 17 

### We are here today to listen and receive 18 

### your comments on EPA's proposed revisions to 19 

### Health and Environmental Protection Standards for 20 

### Uranium and Thorium Mill Tailings, also known as 21 

### 40 Code of Federal Regulations Part 192. 226

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### EPA is proposing to revise this rule by 1 

### adding an additional Subpart F to explicitly 2 

### address groundwater protection at uranium in-situ 3 

### recovery operations. 4 

### EPA announced this proposed rule in the 5 

### Federal Register on January 26th, 2015. The 6 

### comment period started on January 26, 2015, and 7 

### has been extended to May 27th, 2015. 8 

### In a moment Ingrid will explain in more 9 

### detail what -- what was proposed in the Notice; 10 

### but before I turn it over to Ingrid, let me 11 

### explain a bit about how today's hearing will 12


### work. 13 

### This, as I said, is the second of two 14 

### sessions. Our session this morning runs from 9 15 

### to 12. And, in fact, we may be recessing as -- 16 

### during that time, but we will be here the whole 17 

### time to make sure that any folks that come in 18 

### late today have a chance to -- to go on the 19 

### record with their comments. 20 

### If you have not, please make sure you've 21 

### checked in at the registration desk. And that's 227

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### even if you are not planning to speak today. 1 

### I will call the scheduled speakers to the 2 

### podium. When it is your turn to speak, please 3 

### state your name, spelling your complete name for 4 

### the court reporter, and your affiliation before 5 

### you begin your testimony. 6 

### Your comments will be transcribed and 7 

### included in the record of comments on the 8 

### proposed rule. In order to ensure everyone has 9 

### the opportunity to speak and to ensure fairness, 10 

### please limit your testimony to five minutes. We 11 

### will signal to you when you have one minute left 12 

### to speak with the device here in front of me. 13 

### And when five minutes have passed, I will have to 14 

### ask you to complete your testimony. 15 

### If you have more to say, when your -- 16 

### after your five minutes are up and you would like 17 

### to speak again with information that is new and 18 

### discrete from your previous testimony, and it is 19 

### not a rebuttal of someone else's testimony, we 20 

### are happy to let you speak again. Please sign up 21 

### to speak again at the registration table. You 228

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### will be called again after other speakers. 1 

### After you finish your testimony, members 2 

### of the panel may ask clarifying questions. We 3 

### are not here today to answer questions about the 4 

### proposed rule. If you have questions about the 5 

### process, please find one of the EPA 6 

### representatives after the hearing this morning. 7 

### If you have written copies of your 8 

### testimony or supporting documentation, please 9 

### give a copy to our staff at the registration 10 

### table. This will help -- be helpful as we 11 

### prepare the transcript for these hearings. 12 

### If you have additional comments you would 13 

### like to make, you can submit those in writing. 14 

### Comments must be received by 5 p.m. on May 27th, 15


### 2015. 16 

### Now let me assure you that EPA gives just 17 

### as much consideration to comments we receive in 18 

### writing as we do comments we receive at public 19 

### hearings like this one. 20 

### Instructions for submitting comments are 21 

### included in a FAQ sheet at the registration 229

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### table. You can pick up a copy at the table by 1


### the door. 2 

### If you would like to testify but have not 3 

### yet registered to do so, please sign up at the 4 

### registration table in or outside this room. 5 

### Now let me turn things over to Ingrid who 6 

### will summarize the proposed rule for us. 7 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. Welcome, 8 

### everyone. I'm Ingrid Rosencrantz, and I am the 9 

### Lead Rule Writer on this proposed rule. 10 

### I'd like to say thanks to everyone for 11 

### taking time out of your busy days to -- to come 12 

### and participate in this hearing. And we're 13 

### interested in getting everyone's comments and 14 

### thoughts on this proposal. 15 

### EPA is basically proposing to add an 16 

### additional subpart, Subpart F, to 40 CFR 192 to 17 

### address groundwater protection, restoration, and 18 

### stability at in-situ recovery operations. This 19 

### proposal, when finalized, will be implemented by 20 

### NRC and NRC agreement states. And NRC and NRC 21 

### agreement states will -- in response to the final 2210

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### rule -- develop their own sets of regulations in 1 

### order to implement the standard that we're 2 

### currently proposing. 3 

### We are proposing -- specifically, we are 4 

### proposing that groundwater be adequately 5 

### characterized before operation begins, that after 6 

### operations, the aquifer is restored to initial 7 

### groundwater conditions, and that facilities 8 

### ensure that post-restoration groundwater 9 

### conditions remain stable. 10 

### Specifically, we are proposing a 11 

### groundwater protection standard, that the 12 

### standard be set for a minimum of 13 constituents. 13 

### And I'll read these constituents for you. 14 

### Let's see. The list includes arsenic, 15 

### barium, cadmium, chromium, lead, mercury, 16 

### selenium, silver, nitrate as nitrogen, 17 

### molybdenum, combined radium-226 and radium-228, 18 

### total uranium, and gross alpha particle activity 19 

### excluding radon and uranium. Basically the 20 

### standard would be set at the existing MCL or 21 

### background, whichever is higher. 2211

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### To implement the standard we propose 1 

### monitoring requirements for all phases of 2 

### operation -- before operations begin, during 3 

### operations, during restoration, and after 4 

### restoration to ensure stability. In addition, 5 

### the proposal requires corrective action where 6


### necessary. 7 

### Folks are probably familiar with the 8 

### proposal in the Federal Register. If you would 9 

### like to submit comments electronically, it's very 10 

### easy to do. You can go to regulations.gov. 11 

### That's regulations.gov. And I'll give you the 12 

### docket number which you can use to submit your 13 

### comments. Here we go. Let's see. The docket 14 

### number is EPA-HQ-OAR-2012-0788. So we would be 15 

### interested in getting all your comments 16 

### electronically. If you need that docket number, 17 

### it's also on our website. 18 

### So, thank you again for your 19 

### participation, and I'll turn it back over to you. 20 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Ingrid. So we'd 21 

### like to proceed with folks who have registered to 2212

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### speak on the record here, so I'm going to call 1 

### Rodney Knudson up to the front here. 2 

### And, Rodney, if you could spell your 3 

### complete name and state who you're representing 4 

### for the court reporter? Thank you. 5 

### MR. KNUDSON: Yeah, my name is Rodney 6 

### Knudson from Hulett, Wyoming. I am located 30 7 

### miles from Oshoto. I represent the Powder River 8 

### Basin Resource Council, but I am a board member 9


### of such. 10 

### My background is -- is science teacher 11 

### with a -- M.S.S. in physics and chemistry, a B.A. 12 

### in zoology and so on. I took a course -- a class 13 

### about 1980 in radiation and human health at 14 

### Boulder, Colorado, lasted two weeks. I became 15 

### interested in the uranium mining at that point 16 

### and, of course, the Three Mile Island situation. 17 

### So, and they were planning on doing a 18 

### mill right down in Hulett using the water out of 19 

### the Belle Fourche, I suspect. And so I was 20 

### concerned, and I looked at the situation, and 21 

### fortunately, the whole thing was shut down 2213

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### because of Three Mile Island. So we haven't had 1 

### any activity out there for quite some time. 2 

### Thank you for revisiting 40 CFR 192. I 3 

### think that's long overdue. You have recognized 4 

### the importance of proper background -- yeah, 5 

### baseline. I guess they're equivalent. 6 

### The problem with baseline background 7 

### information is that the -- in so many cases the 8 

### prospecting alone has created unrealistically 9 

### high levels of uranium and other of those 13 10 

### elements that you cited because of the oxidation 11


### of those elements. 12 

### And so, if you're going to establish 13 

### baseline, you can't be oxidizing the elements 14 

### and then creating an unrealistic baseline which 15 

### influences the awareness of whether you have an 16 

### exclusion or not. 17 

### Well, also while taking -- by emphasizing 18 

### the stability of -- and I believe this is -- 19 

### these are the two areas that are germane to your 20 

### revision. And I understand how you are basing 21 

### this revision on previous acts and so forth so 2214

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### that you're -- you're legally able to do this. 1 

### Anyway, the stability is a problem 2 

### because of the lixiviant survey was a lixiviant 3 

### into the -- the ore body, this roll front and 4 

### basically it removed the -- all the impediments 5 

### of -- for the movement of the uranium and all 6 

### these other elements because of the iron oxide is 7 

### now gone, the pyrite. 8 

### And so this creates a real problem for -- 9 

### for stability in that these elements want to be 10 

### -- once they're reduced with hydrogen sulfide and 11 

### such, they want to be re-oxidized. And in an 12 

### oxidized state many of these elements are more -- 13 

### are put in solution. And so, I think as I see 14 

### that this problem is addressed in your stability 15 

### findings, but this is an ongoing -- this is going 16 

### to be an ongoing problem. And I appreciate the 17 

### fact that you're looking at almost 30 years of -- 18 

### of follow up on this if the modeling, you know, 19


### doesn't account for that. 20


### But the -- what I read was -- doesn't 21 

### account for all the spills and the pond leakages 2215

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### and so forth that are just as serious -- also 1 

### serious. The deep -- the well which you have to 2 

### drill more to get rid of some stuff that you 3 

### don't ever want to see again, that is -- that 4 

### turns out to be a problem because there are 5 

### 680,000 of these deep injection wells. 6 

### So the assertion is made that the in-situ 7 

### uranium mine is actually safer or environmentally 8 

### benign. I -- I have found that a little hard to 9 

### believe given that the aquifer is directly 10 

### polluted and that -- which is what you tried to 11 

### prevent in conventional mining before. So we 12 

### have all the problems of -- of trying to clean up 13


### the -- the -- what's left. 14 

### And my own personal feeling is that 15 

### uranium -- it's a horror story from start to 16 

### finish. We've had three major nuclear events -- 17 

### maybe four. Hiroshima would be the first, and we 18 

### have Three Mile Island, and Chernobyl, and now 19 

### Fukushima. How -- when are we going to recognize 20 

### the inherent dangers. We have no place to put 21 

### this stuff. You know, 60 tons of highly nuclear 2216

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### waste, it can't go to Yucca Mountain. Anyway, 1 

### this is all real relevant to your discussion, of 2



### course. 3 

### Thank you. 4 

### MR. MINTON: Rodney, could you spell your 5


### last name for the record? 6 

### MR. KNUDSON: Yeah, K-N-U-D -- as in dog 7


### -- S-O-N. 8 

### MR. MINTON: Thank you. 9 

### MR. KNUDSON: Thank you. 10 

### MR. MINTON: I'd like to call up our 11 

### next-scheduled speaker, Helga Bull, if you could 12 

### please come forward? And, Helga, if you could 13 

### spell your full name for the court reporter and 14 

### state who you represent today, please. 15 

### MS. BULL: Helga, H-E-L-G-A, Bull, 16 

### B-U-L-L, like the animal with the horns. Okay. 17 

### My name is Helga Bull, and I'm the Executive 18 

### Director of the Douglas Area Chamber of Commerce 19 

### in Douglas, Wyoming and Converse County. Our 20 

### Chamber has approximately 300 plus business 21


### members. 2217

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### I'm here to ask the EPA to consider the 1 

### potential economic impact of delaying the 2 

### restoration and reclamation of a site in our 3 

### communities of Douglas and Glenrock in Converse 4 

### County. 5 

### Our uranium mines, Smith Ranch-Highland, 6 

### is one of our major employers in the area and has 7 

### contributed vastly to our tax base. I'm asking 8 

### you to please take a scientific look at the local 9 

### impact to our community. 10 

### The tax base in 2014 that Cameco has paid 11 

### goes towards supporting our education and county 12 

### entities like the county library and hospital. 13 

### And a small percentage of the tax base to other 14 

### special districts like conservation and weed and 15 

### pests. The financial impact on county government 16 

### is still monitoring over well sites will 17 

### certainly impact our community. 18 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. I'd like to call 19 

### up our next scheduled speaker, George Hartman, if 20 

### you could please come up? And, George, if you 21 

### could spell your name for the court reporter and 2218

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### let us know who you're representing today? Thank 1


### you. 2 

### MR. HARTMAN: George Hartman, 3 

### G-E-O-R-G-E, H-A-R-T-M-A-N. And I am not 4 

### affiliated with anybody. 5 

### Good morning, and welcome to Wyoming on 6 

### this beautiful spring day. In my -- I have no 7 

### affiliation with either a mining company or the 8 

### government other than the fact that I get a 9 

### Social Security check once a month. 10 

### In my opinion this Notice of Proposed 11 

### Rulemaking is a classical nothing looking for a 12 

### problem. Solution mining has been recovering 13 

### valuable metals and minerals for over four 14 

### decades in at least three western states with no 15 

### serious problem. 16 

### Given the huge federal deficit, the very 17 

### last thing this country needs is another federal 18 

### agency adding to the regulatory efforts of the 19 

### NRC and/or the state environmental quality 20 

### agencies. This proposed rulemaking would just 21 

### add another layer of oversight that is not needed 2219

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### giving the existing already implemented 1 

### regulatory regulations which again has worked 2 

### very well for over four decades -- 40 years. 3 

### In my opinion this ridiculous proposal of 4 

### a 30-year stabilization period for more than -- 5 

### for 13 chemical constituents is completely out of 6 

### the realm of reality. 7 

### If this proposal is implemented, I will 8 

### definitely invest in coal laboratories, energy 9 

### laboratories, and may consider opening a chemical 10 

### analytical laboratory myself. 11 

### (Laughter.) 12 

### However, I feel it would be short-lived 13 

### because this proposal, if accepted, will drive 14 

### these mining companies out of business. 15 

### Another aspect to consider is how will 16 

### these regulations be implemented with the 17 

### existing in-situ mines? Will existing in-situ 18 

### mines be grandfathered? Given these 19 

### requirements, no prudent miner would initiate a 20 

### solution mining getting this unreasonable burden. 21 

### Thank you for this opportunity to 2220

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### comment. 1 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 2 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 3


### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: I'll take that. Thank 4 

### you. Thank you very much. 5 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. I'd like to call our 6 

### next scheduled speaker up front, and that is Mike 7


### Thomas. 8 

### I'm sorry. I apologize. Yeah, I spoke 9 

### out of order here. I apologize. I should be 10 

### following the list a little more carefully. 11 

### Yes, Marc Anderson. Thank you. Mark, if 12 

### you could spell your name for the court reporter 13 

### and tell us who you're representing today? Thank 14


### you. 15 

### MR. ANDREEN: It's Marc Andreen. Marc, 16 

### M-A-R-C, Andreen, A-N-D-R-E-E-N. I am the owner 17 

### of Twin Peaks Pump and Supply out of Douglas. 18 

### We're a small local business. We sell a variety 19 

### of supplies to the in-situ mining industry. Our 20 

### sales to the in-situ mining industry make up 21 

### roughly about 10 percent of our total sales and 2221

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### services. 1 

### If the EPA burdens the mines with 2 

### additional ground water monitoring period, there 3 

### will honestly be additional associated costs that 4 

### will make the in-situ mining unaffordable causing 5 

### cutbacks or possibly closures. It won't just 6 

### affect the people that work at the mines. There 7 

### is a potential that we would have to reduce our 8


### work force as well. 9 

### If you think about all the vendors for 10 

### the in-situ industry and the companies that 11 

### perform various services for them, there will be 12 

### hundreds of jobs that will be lost in Wyoming 13 

### with hardships affecting many families. 14 

### If the EPA goes forward with the 15 

### additional 30 years of groundwater monitoring, it 16 

### could eventually affect the entire mining 17 

### industry in Wyoming which would severely affect 18 

### the rest of my business. If it would come to 19 

### this, I would have to close my business. This 20 

### means that everything I've worked for for the 21 

### past 30 years will be gone. 2222

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### Thank you for allowing me to speak about 1 

### how this could affect myself, my employees and my 2 

### business. Thank you. 3 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 4 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 5 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you very much. 6 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. Our next scheduled 7 

### speaker is Mike Thomas. 8 

### MR. THOMAS: Thank you. 9 

### MR. MINTER: Mike, if you could spell 10 

### your full name for our court reporter and let us 11 

### know who you're representing today at the 12 

### hearing? Thank you. 13 

### MR. THOMAS: Mike Thomas, M-I-K-E, 14 

### T-H-O-M-A-S. Good morning, I'm Mike Thomas, and 15 

### I'm the Vice-President of Regulatory and Public 16 

### Affairs for Uranerz Energy Corporation and the 17 

### current President of the Wyoming Mining 18 

### Association. 19 

### I'd like to thank the EPA for coming to 20 

### Wyoming as well as the hearings in Nebraska and 21 

### Texas and holding -- for holding these 2223

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### rulemakings in areas that will be directly 1 

### affected by this proposed rule. 2 

### In addition, I'd like to request that the 3 

### EPA extend the current comment period another 90 4 

### days or at least another 90 days to interpret all 5 

### the information that is still out there in this 6 

### voluminous rule. 7 

### With Wyoming being the largest producer 8 

### of uranium in the country, the uranium industry 9 

### plays an important role in the lives of the 10 

### people of Wyoming and the economy of the state. 11 

### The industry employs approximately 500 people 12 

### from at least seven counties, a significant 13 

### number of jobs in the least populated state in 14 

### the country. 15 

### The employees' earnings as well as the 16 

### taxes that are paid from the mining of uranium 17 

### are used in supporting communities, supporting 18 

### education and school construction, maintaining 19 

### the state's water systems, building and repairing 20 

### state highways and providing revenue for future 21 

### generations. 2224

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### As you've already heard, there are many 1 

### concerns with this proposed rulemaking. The 2 

### legality of the proposed rule, the fact there are 3 

### no quantifiable risks or documented occurrences 4 

### to support this proposed rule for lack of 5 

### consultation with state and local governments, 6 

### for lack of any technical justification of data 7 

### to support the proposed rule, the incorrect 8 

### economic analysis, duplicative regulation, the 9 

### use and citation of non-peer review papers, and 10 

### the failure to acknowledge emerging science being 11 

### carried out by the universities and national labs 12 

### are examples as to why this proposed rulemaking 13 

### needs to be withdrawn. 14 

### I further suggest that if the EPA has 15 

### questions or concerns with the uranium industry, 16 

### then EPA should work with the entities that 17 

### regulate the industry -- the NRC and the state 18 

### governments. The amount of data available at 19 

### these agencies, along with their experience and 20 

### knowledge of the industry demonstrates that the 21 

### health and safety of the public and environment 2225

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### is being protected. 1 

### Additionally, the EPA should acknowledge 2 

### and possibly fund the ongoing research that is 3 

### being conducted by universities and national 4 

### labs. As demonstrated by the $1.6 research 5 

### funding by the Wyoming state legislature and to 6 

### the University of Wyoming for uranium research, 7 

### the state and the industry are looking at ways to 8 

### further improve groundwater restoration practices 9 

### and timing. 10 

### Continued research by professors such as 11 

### Dr. Tom Johnson at Carlyle State University and 12 

### other colleagues into subjects such as natural 13 

### attenuation and improved restoration techniques 14 

### and practices will only serve to benefit the 15 

### public, environment, and the domestic uranium 16 

### industry. 17 

### A secure and thriving domestic uranium 18 

### industry is needed in this country to fuel our 19 

### reactors to maintain a source of clean, reliable, 20 

### and an inexpensive base load power. 21 

### If this proposed rulemaking proceeds, 2226

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### then our domestic uranium is placed at risk. 1 

### Thank you. 2 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 3 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you very much. 4 

### MR. MINTER: I'd like to call up our next 5 

### scheduled speaker, and that is Steve Mundorf -- 6 

### if you could come forward? 7 

### Steve, if you could spell your name for 8 

### the court reporter and let us know who you're 9 

### representing today? Thank you. 10 

### MR. MUNDORF: Good morning. I'm Steve 11 

### Mundorf, S-T-E-V-E, M-U-N-D-O-R-F. I am one of 12 

### the owners of Casper Well Products. We are a 13 

### small family-owned business that provides 14 

### drilling supplies to the mining and water well 15 

### industries. Approximately 75 percent of our 16 

### business is with the uranium mines here in this 17 

### region. 18 

### I've been with the company for 37 years 19 

### and have seen most of the ups and downs that this 20 

### industry has experienced. Right now we are in a 21 

### bit of a down time with the uranium price 2227

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### remaining at or below production cost. 1 

### Therefore, drilling and well installation budgets 2 

### have been cut significantly which hits our 3 

### business hard. 4 

### So, for the EPA to impose unnecessary and 5 

### unfounded regulations at a time when these 6 

### companies are just trying to survive until the 7 

### market improves is simply unacceptable. 8 

### You know, this -- this could be a time 9 

### when the federal government could step up and 10 

### help these companies become more competitive in 11 

### the worldwide market and not try to put us all 12 

### out of business. You know, we need jobs in this 13 

### country. We don't need more rules that adversely 14 

### affect thousands of people. 15 

### I've been working with these mining 16 

### companies for the past 30 plus years, and to my 17 

### knowledge, there have been no documented problems 18 

### with anyone's groundwater in regards to these in19 

### situ mining operations. If there were, I'd be 20 

### the first to step up and say, yeah, maybe we do 21 

### need tougher standards. But if it isn't broken, 2228

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### why are we trying to fix it? 1 

### Thank you for your time. 2 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 3 

### I'd like to call up our next scheduled 4 

### speaker, and that's Tom Scarlett. If you could 5 

### come forward, please? 6 

### MR. SCARLETT: Thank you. 7 

### MR. MINTER: Tom, if you could spell your 8 

### full name for our court reporter this morning, 9 

### and state who you're representing today in our 10 

### hearing? 11 

### MR. SCARLETT: Thank you. Tom Scarlett, 12 

### T-O-M, S-C-A-R-L-E-T-T. Good morning, I'm Tom 13 

### Scarlett with Green Bit Tool. We're a family14 

### owned joint supply company that services the 15 

### Rocky Mountain Region. About 70 percent of our 16 

### business is dealing with the uranium industry. 17 

### A rule like this, and the impact it could 18 

### have on the mining and uranium mining industry 19 

### would directly affect me and my employees. We'd 20 

### probably have to slash our employees by about 75 21 

### percent which would be really hard to do, but it 2229

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### might be something that we would have to do if 1 

### this rule goes through. 2 

### Not only would it affect our employees, 3 

### it would also affect all the companies and 4 

### manufacturers around the United States that we 5 

### deal with from Pennsylvania to Texas to Colorado, 6 

### California, all -- basically all 50 states we 7 

### deal with in buying products and to service the 8 

### mining industry. 9 

### I would hope that the EPA would consider 10 

### all the comments that are being made and use very 11 

### good science before making such a -- you know, a 12 

### rule with such a huge impact. Thank you. 13 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. I'd like to call 14 

### up our next scheduled speaker, Katie Sweeney. 15 

### Thank you. And, Katie, if you could spell your 16 

### full name for our court reporter this morning and 17 

### state who you're representing? Thank you. 18 

### MS. SWEENEY: Katie Sweeney, K-A-T-I-E, 19 

### S-W-E-E-N-E-Y. Good morning. My name is Katie 20 

### Sweeney. I am General Counsel of the National 21 

### Mining Association which is a national trade 2230

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### association representing the producers of most of 1 

### America's coal, metals, including uranium, 2 

### industrial and agricultural minerals. NMA's 3 

### members include producers of domestic uranium as 4 

### well as companies who have exploration projects 5 

### or pending applications for development of 6 

### domestic uranium mining projects. 7 

### What I'd like to focus on today -- since 8 

### I did talk a lot about the lack of risk when at 9 

### the D.C. hearing -- are the recommendations of 10 

### the EPA's Science Advisory Board Radiation 11 

### Advisory Committee and whether those 12 

### recommendations were followed as part of this 13 

### rulemaking process. 14 

### So, in the development of the rulemaking, 15 

### EPA definitely did engage with the Science 16 

### Advisory Board which is a Congressionaly 17 

### established independent advisory board to obtain 18 

### advice regarding the complex scientific and 19 

### technical issues related to groundwater 20 

### protection at ISR sites. And specifically, EPA 21 

### reached out to folks that actually specialize in 2231

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### radiation issues, so they reached out to the 1 

### Science Advisory Board's Radiation Advisory 2 

### Committee. 3 

### And so the committee reviewed EPA's draft 4 

### proposal -- an early version of the proposal -- 5 

### and the technical basis for the -- I guess they 6 

### were actually reviewing kind of the technical 7 

### reports that were the basis of the rule; and they 8 

### submitted their report to EPA in February of 9


### 2012. 10 

### And the proposed rule does note this, and 11 

### it says that, you know, the EPA received the RAC 12 

### recommendations and addressed each recommendation 13 

### and updated its draft report as part of the 14 

### technical background information. 15 

### The proposal does go on to summarize some 16 

### of the recommendations of the Radiation Advisory 17 

### Committee, but noticeably missing from the list 18 

### of recommendations are those related to 19 

### establishment of post closure monitoring period 20 

### and what that should look like. 21 

### So, some of the specific recommendations 2232

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### of the Science Advisory Board that weren't 1 

### reflected in the proposed rule are that EPA 2 

### continue to seek out and collate data sets of 3 

### sufficient scope and quality to provide 4 

### information relevant for setting the standards 5 

### under consideration. Such data sets, they noted, 6 

### were available from existing and former sites 7 

### during the baseline evaluation operation and 8 

### restoration stages and they pointed to different 9 

### examples available data including the USGS study 10 

### on ISO mining in Texas. 11 

### The SAB noted that the existing data sets 12


### could be used to demonstrate use of 13 

### hydrogeochemical modeling for predicting behavior 14 

### of systems during operation, restoration, and 15 

### post restoration. 16 

### They also pointed to EPA's own case 17 

### studies from a technical background document, 18


### Attachments B and C to the S. Cohen and 19 

### Associates report. They noted that those would 20 

### be pertinent to discussions in the -- on the use 21 

### of competence levels for determining if 2233

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### restoration goals had been achieved. And they 1 

### also noted that a uniform database could be 2 

### prepared from the collected site data that we use 3 

### to characterize the baseline operation, 4 

### restoration, and post restoration conditions. 5 

### Data from assisting facilities could be 6 

### used to propose a technical, reliable time frame 7 

### for post closure monitoring. And this is a case 8 

### in which hydrogeochemical modeling can be a 9 

### valuable tool for predicting how long a system 10 

### will take to return to baseline conditions. 11 

### So, those were some of the SAB 12 

### recommendations on the existing data sets that 13 

### they advised EPA to look at. 14 

### Our EPA responded in June of 2012. And 15 

### for post mining and restoration monitoring they 16 

### summarized the SAB recommendations as follows: 17 

### The first recommendation that summarizes combine 18 

### the extensive, existing data sets with knowledge 19 

### of constituent interactions in the black water 20 

### system to model post mining approach to 21 

### stability. EPA's response in the 2012 document 2234

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### is EPA would encourage applying this type of 1 

### site-specific modeling during the licensing 2 

### process, and EPA agrees that data on the 3 

### effectiveness of restoration and the factor 4 

### influencing it would be useful. 5 

### Another recommendation that EPA 6 

### summarized of the SAB is discuss implications of 7 

### data presented in the tables in the attachments 8 

### to the draft technical report. So that was the 9 

### S. Cohen Report. And EPA responded that they are 10 

### factoring data from field situations into a 11 

### technical analysis. 12 

### I have went back and looked at -- tried 13 

### to compare the two technical analysis, the 2014 14 

### version and the 2011 one I think it was. I 15 

### didn't really see much difference, and I did not 16 

### see EPA directly addressing the recommendations 17 

### of the Science Advisory Board on those post18 

### monitoring time frames and how the data that is - 19 

### - was available at that time could be useful in 20 

### doing so. So, I think that's something that if 21 

### that happened, it's missing from the record and 2235

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### the docket. 1 

### And I think that since that time there's 2 

### even more data that's become available and 3 

### useful, and I think EPA should consider that data 4 

### and -- that's now available and postpone the 5 

### rulemaking or put it on hold just for a while 6 

### while they consider that data. And I think more 7 

### people are going to talk about data later today. 8 

### Thank you. 9 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. Now I'd like to 10 

### call our next scheduled speaker, John Cash, if 11 

### you could come forward. 12 

### MR. CASH: Thank you. 13 

### MR. MINTER: John, if you could spell 14 

### your full name for our court reporter this 15 

### morning, and let us know who you're representing 16 

### at the hearing. 17 

### MR. CASH: John Cash, J-O-H-N, C-A-S-H. 18 

### Good morning. My name is John Cash. I'm the 19 

### Vice-President of Regulatory Affairs for Ur20 

### Energy. I'd like to thank the EPA for coming to 21 

### Casper and holding these hearing so you can hear 2236

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### from the people who are most affected by the 1 

### proposed regulation. 2 

### Ur Energy has 81 employees and numerous 3 

### full-time contractors and vendors who depend on 4 

### uranium production as their source of income. 5 

### I'd like to first focus on two 6 

### significant issues and then come back around to 7 

### some additional less important issues; but the 8 

### two things I'd like to focus on are the 9 

### hydrologic model that was presented in the 10 

### rulemaking and also the very important matter of 11 

### jurisdiction. 12 

### The draft hydrologic model presented in 13 

### the draft regs is used in part to justify the 14 

### rulemaking. Unfortunately, the model relies on 15 

### MODFLOW and MT3DMS which does not adequately 16 

### consider quantitative reactive transport. We 17 

### recommend that the MODFLOW model be used in 18 

### conjunction with PHREEQC which is an advanced 19 

### thermodynamically based geochemical computer 20 

### program recognized by government agencies. 21 

### Generally, the model and associated 2237

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### health risk assessments are based on ultra 1 

### conservative numbers. When ultra conservative 2 

### numbers are multiplied by other ultra 3 

### conservative numbers, the result is unrealistic. 4 

### For example, the placement of receptor points, 5 

### dispersivity, storativity, natural gradient and 6 

### diffusion are important considerations in 7 

### groundwater modeling. In several instances the 8


### modeler used factors that are one to two orders 9 

### of magnitude more conservative than what is 10 

### actually present at average in-situ facilities. 11 

### For example, the hydrologic gradient used 12 

### in the model is .1 feet per foot; however, Table 13 

### 2.1 of the model states that the regional 14 

### gradients range from .001 to .01. It is unclear 15 

### why the modeler elected to use a gradient that is 16 

### one to two orders of magnitude greater than what 17 

### they concede as the normal range of gradients. 18 

### We request that the draft model be rerun 19 

### using factors that realistically represent in20 

### situ facilities. 21 

### Finally, in most -- or finally and most 2238

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### importantly, we believe that the EPA has exceeded 1 

### its authority under UMTRCA by proposing rules to 2 

### regulate groundwater in in-situ facilities. 3 

### UMTRICA adopts the definition of by-product 4 

### material from the Atomic Energy Act, the relevant 5 

### definition of which is the tailings or waste 6 

### produced by the extraction or concentration of 7 

### uranium or thorium from any ore process primarily 8 

### for its source material content. 9 

### Significantly, in 1979 as part of its 10 

### regulations implementing UMTRCA, NRC extended the 11 

### definition of by-product material to mean the 12 

### tailings or waste produced by the extraction or 13 

### concentration of uranium or thorium from any ore 14 

### processed primarily for its source material 15 

### content, including discrete surface waste 16 

### resulting from uranium solution extraction 17


### processes. 18 

### Underground ore bodies depleted by 19 

### solution extraction operations do not constitute 20 

### by-product material within this definition. And 21 

### that's in 44 Fed Reg of 50012. The Preamble to 2239

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### the 1979 regulations state that the NRC determine 1 

### that the definition of Section 11 from by-product 2 

### material includes the above-ground wastes from 3 

### in-situ extraction operations. 4 

### EPA also recognized the limit of NRC 5 

### jurisdiction to above-ground waste associated 6 

### with ISR operations in its technical resource 7 

### document entitled Extraction and Beneficiation of 8 

### Ores and Minerals in which it stated that 9 

### although the NRC has promulgated radiation 10 

### protection standards that regulate active and 11 

### inactive uranium milling sites, the NRC has no 12 

### regulatory authority over uranium mines except 13 

### the above-ground activities of solution mines. 14 

### The term tailings means the remaining 15 

### portion of a metal-bearing ore after some or all 16 

### of the metal such as uranium has been extracted. 17 

### We contend that ISR operations do not generate 18 

### tailings. The only remaining portion of ore 19 

### after uranium has been extracted in an ISR 20 

### operation is the uranium or body subjected to in21 

### situ leaching which expressly is excluded from 2240

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### regulation under UMTRCA and RCRA about CPA's 1 

### [sic] regulatory authority under UMTRCA 206 is 2 

### limited to tailings and waste. 3 

### With regard to waste, EPA's assertion 4 

### that RCRA's hazardous waste framework is directly 5 

### applicable to this situation is fundamentally 6 

### flawed. The process of injecting lixiviant and 7 

### restoration fluids into the ore body is an in8 

### situ industry industrial mineral recovery 9 

### process. It does not involve an active disposal; 10 

### therefore, neither lixiviant nor restoration 11 

### fluids are waste which means they are not uranium 12 

### by-product material, and they are not subject to 13


### UMTRCA. 14 

### I'll flip back over and talk about a few 15 

### other more minor concerns that we have with 16 

### regard to the draft rule. First of all, we feel 17 

### that the EPA has failed to accurately consider 18 

### the toxicity and cancer risks of the 19 

### radionuclides. And you've heard some about that 20 

### last night. 21 

### The economic model fails to accurately 2241

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### consider the cost of extended stability 1 

### monitoring. The EPA has failed to follow the 2 

### Science Advisory Board's recommendations. 3 

### There's been a failure to consider the potential 4 

### risks related to post mining water quality. In 5 

### fact, the EPA concedes that a risk could not be 6 

### determined. The failure to consider readily 7 

### available post restoration groundwater gradient 8 

### water quality data held by states and the NRC, we 9 

### applaud the use of data collected by USGS, but 10 

### this data is just the tip of the iceberg. 11 

### The concerns I have presented today will 12 

### be further developed and presented in writing 13 

### prior to the public comment deadline. Thank you 14 

### for your time and consideration. 15 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, John. 16 

### I'd like to call our next scheduled 17 

### speaker to the front. That is Larry Reimann. 18 

### Larry, if you could spell your complete 19 

### name for our court reporter this morning and 20 

### state who you're representing at our hearing. 21 

### MR. REIMANN: Okay. 2242

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### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 1 

### MR. REIMANN: My name is -- excuse me. 2 

### My name is Larry Reimann, L-A-R-R-Y, 3 

### R-E-I-M-A-N-N; and I'm representing Chemical 4


### Resources. 5 

### Good morning. My name is Larry Reimann. 6 

### I'm the Manager of Technical Services and SHEQ 7 

### for Cameco Resources in Casper, Wyoming. I'd 8 

### like to thank EPA for having these hearings in 9 

### Casper and for listening to the concerns of 10 

### stakeholders in Wyoming. 11 

### The majority of my comments will be on 12 

### the economic justification for the rulemaking and 13 

### express Chemical Resources' concerns with the 14 

### EPA's analysis. 15 

### EPA is required, under the Regulatory 16 

### Flexibility Act, to look the costs and the 17 

### benefits of implementing new rules. Executive 18 

### Order 13563 specifically goes farther and says to 19 

### quantify anticipated benefits and costs of 20 

### proposed rulemakings as accurately as possible, 21 

### using the best available techniques and assure 2243

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### that any scientific and technological information 1 

### or processes are used to support their regulatory 2 

### actions are objective. 3 

### In fact, a full cost benefit analysis is 4 

### a prudent step that should be completed by a 5 

### responsible decision maker before making 6 

### decisions that will affect government, a company, 7 

### or a personal life. The economic analysis 8 

### attempted to look at small business aspects of 9 

### the rules, but because we are a subsidiary of a 10 

### large company, the economic effects to our 11 

### business are minimized by the Agency. 12 

### Important entities that the EPA ignored 13 

### in the economic evaluation are the small 14 

### suppliers and contractors that support our 15 

### ongoing businesses and the rural county 16 

### governments that receive tax revenue from our 17 

### projects. 18 

### Make no mistake, the 40 CFR Program 192 19 

### rules are going to have a major effect on the 20 

### U.S. uranium extraction industry, its employees, 21 

### the businesses that provide goods and services to 2244

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### the industry, and local communities where the 1 

### industry is active. 2 

### EPA, therefore, has a responsibility to 3 

### ensure that the concerns of the various 4 

### stakeholders are not just considered but analyzed 5 

### and weighted in detail. 6 

### EPA, in the supplementary information 7 

### section in the preamble of the rulemaking, asks 8 

### three important questions. What are the impacts 9 

### to groundwater? What are the benefits of 10 

### avoiding impacts to groundwater? And what are 11 

### the cost impacts? 12 

### These provide a workable framework for 13 

### what the cost-benefit evaluation of the 14 

### rulemaking was supposed to do. Unfortunately the 15 

### analysis that is the basis for the rulemaking 16 

### falls short of answering these important 17 

### questions. 18 

### EPA summarizes in the economic analysis 19 

### in conclusion sections of the proposed rules, but 20 

### to fully understand how the analysis was 21 

### conducted, the basis document had to be carefully 2245

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### reviewed. 1 

### EPA's economic basis document is a long, 2 

### technical report. And after carefully reviewing 3 

### it, there are significant and readily apparent 4 

### deficiencies in it. I do not have time to 5 

### discuss all the items that require further 6 

### review. Those will be discussed in my -- in our 7 

### written comments. 8 

### However, I would like to briefly 9 

### illustrate what appear to be major deficiencies 10 

### in the economic analysis. There's a lack of 11 

### site-specific research and data to support the 12 

### conclusions. And there's a failure to 13 

### characterize the benefits of the rulemaking. 14 

### In Table 2's summary of the cost benefits 15 

### of 40 CFR Part 192, Subpart F of options, the EPA 16 

### states that the estimated -- the EPA states the 17 

### estimated costs of the rulemaking but cannot 18 

### quantify the net benefits of the rulemaking. 19 

### This is a significant gap. Even a fundamental 20 

### flaw in the analysis -- how does EPA purport to 21 

### complete an economic analysis without quantifying 2246

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### the benefits? 1 

### Data errors, missing data, and a 2 

### misunderstanding of the uranium mining industry 3 

### which leads to a suspect and wildly inaccurate 4 

### analysis of the cost impacts of the rulemaking 5 

### are also a problem with this analysis. 6 

### What's required to improve the rulemaking 7 

### effort? The review of 40 CFR 192 economic 8 

### assumptions shows that more data is required to 9 

### facilitate an effective and informed rulemaking 10 

### by EPA. The good news is that the type of 11 

### research that is required is currently being 12 

### conducted at Cameco Resources' Smith Ranch13 

### Highland Mine by some of the most capable 14 

### scientists in the country. My colleague, Dr. 15 

### Clay, will be talking about the research 16 

### activities being conducted at Smith Ranch in his 17 

### testimony today. The type of research that is 18 

### being conducted at Smith Ranch provides the 19 

### information that is desperately needed by EPA to 20 

### properly conduct the required economic analysis 21 

### for this major rulemaking. 2247

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### To summarize, a meaningful cost-benefit 1 

### analysis for any rulemaking cannot be completed 2 

### without sufficient and accurate input data. EPA 3 

### repeatedly and readily admits the shortcomings in 4 

### the economic analysis that underpins this 5 

### rulemaking exercise. 6 

### Cameco Resources respectfully request 7 

### that EPA delay the proposed rule until EPA 8 

### carries out a proper economic analysis that 9 

### includes collecting the available data and 10 

### identifying data gaps where research is required 11 

### to support regulatory efforts. EPA has a 12 

### responsibility to provide careful fundamental 13 

### analysis that befits a rule that potentially has 14 

### such a significant impact. 15 

### Thank you on behalf of Cameco Resources 16 

### for hearing my testimony today. 17 

### MR. PEAKE: Thank you. 18 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 19 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Larry. 20 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 21 

### MR. MINTER: I'd like to call off up our 2248

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### next scheduled speaker. Jim Clay, if you could 1


### come forward? 2 

### Jim, if you could spell your full name 3 

### and state who you're representing today for our 4 

### court reporter? Thank you. 5 

### MR. CLAY: My name is Jim Clay, J-I-M, 6


### last name C-L-A-Y. And I work for Cameco 7 

### Resources where I'm a Senior Scientist. We run 8 

### the largest in-situ recovery mine in the United 9 

### States in Converse County. 10 

### Over the past few years Cameco Resources 11 

### has hosted a number of scientific projects to 12 

### address issues of groundwater restoration, some 13 

### of which continue in progress to this day and 14 

### some more of which will begin in the future. 15 

### I'm here today to provide you an overview 16 

### of this matter as well as the work that must be 17 

### taken into account in the proposed EPA 18 

### rulemaking. 19 

### To begin with, it is important to bear in 20 

### mind that the groundwater in the ore zone of in21 

### situ mines is not potable before mining begins. 2249

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### I know you folks are aware of that. I saw it in 1


### the document. 2 

### The real question is what happens down 3 

### gradient. That is to say downstream if you're 4 

### not an expert at hydrology of a restored zone. 5 

### Whether the restored zone itself -- the restored 6 

### zone stability matters to the extent that the 7 

### groundwater there remains clean enough to ensure 8 

### downgrading aquifers are not compromised. 9 

### The proposed regulation requires that all 10 

### wells, injectors and producers in addition to 11 

### monitoring wells, be available for sampling. It 12 

### doesn't mean that it's going to require that they 13 

### all be sampled, but it does have a statement in 14 

### there that they all be available for sampling. 15 

### This is despite the lack of mobility of 16 

### uranium and radium that is evident from the 17 

### monitor well data. And the recent scientific 18 

### research at Smith Ranch-Highland, an operation 19 

### that's been in place for 27 years -- based on our 20 

### extensive experience in this regard, effective 21 

### monitoring should only be selected down gradient 2250

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### of the -- of the restored zone. 1 

### The proposed stability requirement within 2 

### a restored zone is, therefore, needlessly harsh 3 

### given the evidence indicating the uranium 4 

### mobility is very low at Smith Ranch. 5 

### Incidentally, there's peer review publications 6 

### that are in the works. Whether they get through 7 

### peer review, of course, I don't know until the 8 

### public -- the editors of these journals pass 9 

### judgment; but I think some of them will. 10 

### Now, having set the table, I want to 11 

### discuss the studies that are currently underway 12 

### at Smith Ranch. Work is being done by scientists 13 

### from the United States Geological Survey, Los 14 

### Alamos National Laboratories, the University of 15 

### Wyoming, Colorado State University, and other 16 

### leading institutions. In fact, the United States 17 

### Environmental Protection Agency provided some of 18 

### the funding for these studies. 19 

### Cameco was provided with logistical 20 

### support and some financial backing; however -- I 21 

### want to be clear about this -- there is complete 2251

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### independence for research for these people. When 1 

### I proposed to management years ago that we have 2 

### this program, I told them the researchers are 3 

### going to get what they get, and we'll have to 4 

### live with it. 5 

### One peer-reviewed scientific publication 6 

### based on research at Smith Ranch-Highland came 7 

### out in October of 2014. Another was submitted 8 

### for peer review last week. In addition, research 9 

### projects are being conducted by a variety of 10 

### institutions that include the following topics: 11 

### natural attenuation of uranium down gradient. 12 

### Researchers from Los Alamos National 13 

### Laboratories, the University of California at 14 

### Berkeley and Stanford University have made 15 

### efforts in this regard. 16 

### Ways to minimize uranium concentrations 17 

### in restored zones after mining. The United 18 

### States Geological Survey, Stanford University, 19 

### Los Alamos National Laboratory are working on 20 

### that project. 21 

### Improvements in bio-stimulation 2252

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### techniques for removing uranium from groundwater, 1 

### the University of Wyoming. 2 

### Sophisticated multi tracer studies have 3 

### been conducted at SRA at Smith Ranch-Highland to 4 

### examine the efficiency of hydraulics flow through 5 

### mine units, Los Alamos National Laboratories. 6 

### Laboratory column studies using core and 7 

### water samples taken from Smith Ranch are being 8 

### used to calibrate and construct improved reactive 9 

### transport models for predicting uranium migration 10 

### down gradient, the South Dakota School of Mines 11 

### and Technology; and Stoller Newport News Nuclear 12 

### Researchers are doing that work. 13 

### Field natural attenuation studies using 14 

### push-pull injections withdrawals of lixiviant 15 

### from unmined aquifer have been undertaken to 16 

### engage in the field how much dissolved uranium is 17 

### immobilized by interactions with aquifer solids, 18 

### Los Alamos National Laboratory is doing this 19 

### work. It is being partially funded by the 20 

### Environmental Protection Agency. 21 

### Studies of the genesis of uranium roll- 2253

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### fronts in the Powder River Basin are being done 1 

### by researchers from Colorado State University and 2 

### the United States Geological Survey. 3 

### Synchrotron radiation work to investigate 4 

### the characterization of core mineralogy is being 5 

### done at the Canadian Light Source in Saskatoon by 6 

### researchers from the University of Saskatchewan. 7 

### Efforts to characterize the microbes and 8 

### remove uranium from groundwater are being 9 

### conducted using core samples and water samples 10 

### from the Smith Ranch-Highland mine. This work 11 

### includes DNA and phospholipid fatty acid 12 

### analyses; and the work is being done by 13 

### researchers from the University of Wyoming, the 14 

### United States Geological Survey, Colorado State 15 

### University, and Lawrence Berkeley National 16 

### Laboratory. 17 

### An assessment of the health risk at the 18 

### site of an ISR mine both before mining occurs and 19 

### after restoration and reclamation activities are 20 

### complete is being done by Colorado State 21 

### University. 2254

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### With respect to the health assessment, it 1 

### is of particular interest because the EPA stated 2 

### on page 87 of the proposed regulation as follows: 3 

### We anticipate the objection that the presence of 4 

### uranium deposits typically results in groundwater 5 

### and poor quality is not a pristine source of 6 

### drinking water. We recognize this is often the 7 

### case, and -- 8 

### (Warning beeper sounded.) 9 

### MR. CLAY: -- water is affected by the 10 

### mineralized water. We do not, however, see this 11 

### as a reason to allow the groundwater to be 12 

### further degraded. We need to have a discussion 13 

### about what degraded means. 14 

### I'll have more in my written testimony. 15 

### Thank you for listening to me. I appreciate it. 16 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 17 

### MR. CLAY: I'll give you some comments 18 

### that are in writing, too. 19 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 20 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Jim. 21 

### I would like to call up our next 2255

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### scheduled speaker. Bill Novotny, if you'd come 1


### forward? 2 

### MR. NOVOTNY: Thank you. 3 

### MR. MINTER: Bill, if you could spell 4 

### your full name for our court reporter this 5 

### morning and let us know who you're representing 6 

### at the hearing today? Thank you. 7 

### MR. NOVOTNY: Bill, B-I-L-L, Novotny, 8 

### N-O-V-O-T-N-Y. I'm a Johnson County 9 

### Commissioner, so I'm here on behalf of the 10 

### residents of Johnson County. 11 

### I want to thank the EPA for coming to 12 

### Wyoming and for giving us this opportunity to 13 

### testify at this field hearing. I'm going to 14 

### speak directly to the impacts of this rulemaking 15 

### on Johnson County. And our county will also be 16 

### providing written comments. 17 

### I would ask that the EPA withdraw this 18


### rule. 19 

### There are three operating uranium mines 20 

### in Johnson County. The economic impact on this 21 

### decision would be very disastrous to our county. 2256

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### On average, each of those three uranium mines 1 

### contribute $719,000 in property taxes to Johnson 2 

### County. Additionally, about $2,500 in motor 3 

### vehicle registration fees. 4 

### Johnson County has a valuation of over 5 

### $857 million. Of that 16 million is represented 6 

### by the uranium industry. While that is only 2 7 

### percent of our industry -- of our county's 8 

### valuation, it continues to grow. 9 

### Our assessor has just released the 2015 10 

### assessment of taxes, and the structural value of 11 

### those three mines to our county is over $52 12 

### million. That is hard assets invested in our 13 

### county that this rule puts in jeopardy. 14 

### There would be a tremendous loss of jobs 15 

### directly and indirectly in my county if this rule 16 

### is allowed to proceed, but more importantly, 17 

### Johnson County is the guarantor of a $20 million 18 

### industrial revenue bond with the State of 19 

### Wyoming. Should this rule be allowed to 20 

### continue, you would jeopardize the production 21 

### that would guaranty that bond and put our good 2257

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### faith and credit at risk. 1 

### Last week I had the opportunity to 2 

### question the Region 8 Administrator about this 3 

### proposed rulemaking at the Wyoming County 4 

### Commissioners Association. I specifically asked 5 

### him for the justification and rationale of this 6 

### rulemaking, and he could not answer. 7 

### Again, Wyoming is making positive steps 8 

### to protect our environment through regulation 9 

### through our Department of Environmental Quality. 10 

### I view this as an overreach by Washington and the 11 

### EPA. It's part of a radical environmental agenda 12 

### to control the State of Wyoming. You put the 13 

### national security of our country at risk by 14 

### hampering our nuclear industry and our ability to 15 

### produce power; but most importantly, it's going 16 

### to be a job killer in Johnson County. 17 

### I appreciate the opportunity to testify 18 

### before you, and I look forward to the additional 19 

### comments that we will provide to the EPA. Thank 20


### you. 21 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. I'd like to call 2258

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### up our next scheduled speaker. Jim Hicks, if you 1 

### could please come forward? Jim, if you could 2 

### state your complete name for the court reporter 3 

### this morning and let us know who you're 4 

### representing? Thank you. 5 

### MR. HICKS: My name is Jim Hicks. That's 6 

### J-I-M, H-I-C-K-S. I'm also a Commissioner in 7 

### Johnson County and represent the citizens of 8 

### Johnson County who number about 4,000 -- 4,100. 9 

### Excuse me, about 8,500. 10 

### Johnson County covers about 4,100 square 11 

### miles. And we have over 600 miles of county 12 

### roads. And those primarily -- those roads 13 

### provide service to these many federal lands. A 14 

### great deal of our county is administered by the 15 

### Bureau of Land Management. So we have a lot of 16 

### expense in doing that. That's for recreation so 17 

### we can utilize it for grazing but also for 18 

### mineral. And we have all that responsibility and 19 

### financial burden from that to handle. It's hard 20 

### to do without a tax base. 21 

### And what I think this rule does is really 2259

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### put some of that in jeopardy, and I'm worried 1 

### about it. 2 

### I've lived here in northeast Wyoming for 3 

### 80 years and -- and I've been active in public 4 

### service as a city councilman and mayor, and now a 5 

### county commissioner over many years. I've seen a 6 

### lot of things happen. And I think I've watched 7 

### uranium for at least -- in-situ mining for close 8 

### to 40 years. And I haven't seen a problem. And 9 

### I'm not a -- I'm not a scientist, and I'm not 10 

### technical, and I can't address those issues, but 11


### I rest on common sense. 12 

### I think the Wyoming Department of 13 

### Environmental Quality has done a good job. And 14 

### what we've seen in the southeast part of our 15 

### county, I have not -- I know we were really 16 

### concerned about it at first. We really were, but 17 

### it hasn't proved to be an issue. 18 

### I'm worried that what you're doing or 19 

### proposing to do here is very damaging. And if I 20 

### might, if you'll be patient with me, I'd like to 21 

### use a little common sense here and tell you a 2260

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### story. 1 

### We had a horse trader up in north 2 

### Wyoming, and we used to call him Two Belly. He 3 

### was a rather rotund fellow, and he kept his belt 4 

### pretty tight and had belly above it and belly 5 

### below it. 6 

### Well, Two Belly was a pretty good 7 

### salesman, and he showed up at my Uncle Bob's 8 

### place had a little horse to corral and that, and 9 

### he told him -- actually, he knew what was going 10 

### on about this horse, and he -- and Uncle Bob's 11 

### had a lot of problems with him, but he finally 12 

### said that -- you know, he's normally -- he don't 13 

### look so good, but he said the price is right and 14 

### you really ought to buy him. So Uncle Bob made 15


### the deal. 16 

### And he watered him and threw a couple 17 

### flakes of hay over the corral. And the next 18 

### morning he went out there, and the horse was 19 

### still standing in the same damn place. So he 20 

### took a stick, went through the corral and poked 21 

### him in the rear, and that horse ran right 2261

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### straight into the side of the barn. 1 

### And he went back to the house, and he 2 

### called Two Belly up, and he said, that horse is 3 

### blind. And he said, well, I told you he didn't 4 

### look so good. 5 

### (Laughter.) 6 

### Now, I know that's -- what I think he 7 

### sold it to us, he was a little bit of a blind 8 

### horse. You know, we should -- we need to find 9 

### out a little more about this before we take that 10 

### step. It's a big one for the people in this 11 

### Johnson County and the surrounding area. We need 12 

### to take a little more time, and we might not need 13 

### the horse at all because Uncle Bob sure didn't 14 

### need that blind horse. 15 

### So I want to thank you very much and I 16 

### appreciate your time and ability to speak to you 17 

### and being patient with me. Thank you. 18 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 19 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 20 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. I'd like to call 21 

### up our next scheduled speaker. William Goranson, 2262

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### if you could please come forward? 1 

### MR. GORANSON: Thank you. 2 

### MR. MINTER: William, if you could spell 3 

### your complete name for our court reporter this 4 

### morning and let us know who you're representing 5 

### at the hearing today? Thank you. 6 

### MR. GORANSON: My name is William, W-I-L7 

### L-I-A-M, Goranson, G-O-R-A-N-S-O-N. I’m the 8 

### Chief Operating Officer and President of Uranerz 9 

### Energy Corporation. 10 

### I want to thank you for this time. Is 11 

### this mike on or -- okay. 12 

### I want to thank you for this time and 13 

### opportunity to speak again. I had some thoughts 14 

### following the hearing last night, and I thought I 15 

### would put together some thoughts that I had going 16 

### forward on what I heard last night. 17 

### So I'm here to discuss portions of the 18 

### 192 proposed -- the rule -- proposed rulemaking 19 

### 192.53. I'm making these comments based on my 20 

### over 28 years of experience in the uranium 21 

### recovery industry with most of that time working 2263

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### in in-situ recovery segment of the industry. 1 

### I'm a Professional Engineer, and I hold a 2 

### Master's degree in Environmental Engineering. 3 

### During my course work and subsequent work 4 

### experience, I've managed every aspect of the in5 

### situ recovery operation from pre-operational 6 

### development to restoration and final reclamation. 7 

### I have also managed licensing actions with two 8 

### reclaimed mill tailing facilities through the 9 

### successful applications of the approval of 10 

### ultimate concentration limits. 11 

### As I stated yesterday in last night's 12 

### hearing, in-situ recovery -- the in-situ recovery 13 

### operations of the segment of the uranium recovery 14 

### industry has a demonstrated track record of 15 

### successful operations in restoration with no 16 

### offsite impacts to USDWs. 17 

### So when I read 192.53, I see -- I see 18 

### familiar ground with requirements that have been 19 

### well established in the rules and license 20 

### conditions by NRC, Agreement States and States 21 

### with Primacy over UIC. However, there are 2264

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### several new requirements that could create 1 

### confusion in my simple engineer's mind as to 2 

### their purpose and what is -- I'm sorry -- and if 3 

### what is advertised in the justifications for the 4 

### proposed rule are real or simply a hypothetical 5 

### exercise. 6 

### To begin that thought, re-reading 192.53 7 

### again this morning, there are new requirements, 8 

### terminology, and timelines that existing licensed 9 

### operations are not set up to meet. For example, 10 

### 19253(a)(iii)(B), there appears to be a new 11 

### requirement to model site performance based on 12 

### preoperational data that none of the currently 13 

### operating sites have gathered or could gather at 14 

### this point in their operational life. 15 

### A practiced groundwater modeler 16 

### understands that it is important not only to have 17 

### adequate data, but have a good understanding of 18 

### the underlying assumptions of that model that 19 

### will differ significantly on a site-by-site 20 

### basis. Also, one has to have the ability to 21 

### calibrate the model to assure that the results 2265

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### are meaningful and relatively consistent with 1 

### expectations. 2 

### As an experienced operator, I have 3 

### managed several operations in disparate locations 4 

### in Texas and Wyoming, and I have observed that 5 

### these models are notoriously unreliable for 6 

### predicting operational performance. In fact -- 7 

### the fact that the in-situ recovery process is a 8 

### form of reactive transport that the model's 9 

### assumed to be in a relatively homogeneous 10 

### geological environment, but in reality, that 11 

### environment is a heterogeneous geologic 12 

### environment that has supported the geochemical 13 

### and hydraulic conditions that allowed the uranium 14 

### ore body to be formed in the first place. So how 15 

### do you -- how do you model two separate 16 

### environments? 17 

### Even production models are only 18 

### estimates. They're used as a guide for 19 

### investment decisions, but in reality, actual 20 

### performance can vary differently. As a producer, 21 

### we can live with that level of uncertainty 2266

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### because we can accept that models are only a 1 

### guideline, and in reality the actual -- it is the 2


### actual results that count. 3 

### So, how does one effectively model the 4 

### groundwater characteristics in a preoperational 5 

### manner to reliably predict restoration results 6 

### before anything is going to be turned on? I 7 

### haven't discovered that answer, but I do follow 8 

### an anecdotal approach from my experience. If the 9 

### uranium recovers efficiently, the formation 10 

### restores efficiently. 11 

### I suggest that at best these requirements 12 

### only apply to new applications since existing 13 

### operations could not meet these requirements, and 14 

### the agency has set them up to fail. 15 

### In 192.53(e)(iii), there is a discussion 16 

### of the ability to avoid a 30-year long-term 17 

### surveillance monitoring, if one demonstrates 18 

### stability to a 95 percent confidence level (which 19 

### in my opinion is not well defined), then 20 

### groundwater modeling could be used to demonstrate 21 

### future impacts. 2267

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### In my opinion, this seems to be the same 1 

### level of work required for an Alternate 2 

### Concentration Limit amendment and begs the 3 

### question, why would an operator bother to restore 4 

### the pre-operational levels and end up with the 5 

### same regulatory burden as the ACL described in 6 

### 192.53(b)(iii)(B)? Also, if one does demonstrate 7 

### within a 95 percent confidence (again, a standard 8 

### that has not been effectively described or 9 

### characterized), after no less than three years of 10 

### stability monitoring, what is the point of the 11 

### 30-year long-term surveillance monitoring period? 12 

### In the industry we have multiple examples 13 

### of demonstrated stability for periods longer than 14 

### three years simply because of the rigorous 15 

### regulatory process. Some fields have been in 16 

### stability for well over five years, if not 17 

### longer, and only waiting on approval. If one 18 

### fast forwards to the way the regulatory process 19 

### works for a site that could go into restoration 20 

### under this rulemaking, once that stability period 21 

### is approved by the regulatory agency does the 2268

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### clock start on the LTSM, or does the licensee 1 

### effectively get credit for time served? 2 

### This leads me to believe that the 3 

### modeling off ramp offered in 192.53(b)(iii)(B) 4 

### does not provide relief as advertised. 5 

### I suggest before these rules are 6 

### promulgated that we wait to see the outcomes of 7 

### the research that was presented at the April 21st 8 

### ISR Workshop. It is my opinion that EPA will 9 

### learn that long-term issues that are of great 10 

### concern at this point may be put to rest. 11 

### Thank you for this time. 12 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, William. 13 

### I'd like to call our next scheduled 14 

### speaker. Wayne Heili, if you'll come forward, 15 

### please? Wayne, if you could spell your complete 16 

### name for the court reporter this morning, and 17 

### state who you're representing at the hearing 18 

### today? Thank you. 19 

### MR. HEILI: Good morning. My name is 20 

### Wayne Heili. Wayne, W-A-Y-N-E, Heili is spelled 21 

### the only way it could be, H-E-I-L-I. 2269

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### I'm a long-time resident with a 1 

### professional career spent in the uranium recovery 2 

### industry. I'm currently serving the industry as 3 

### the President of the UPA, the Uranium Producers 4 

### of America. The UPA is an industry association 5 

### of the leading domestic uranium mining and 6 

### conversion companies. 7 

### Many of the UPA member companies will be 8 

### sharing their views on this proposed rulemaking 9 

### throughout the hearing process by submitting 10 

### written -- and also by submitting written 11 

### comments. I urge you to take careful account of 12 

### each of their well considered comments and 13 

### statements as you proceed with your deliberations 14 

### on this topic. Our member companies will raise 15 

### many high-level, detailed, and technical concerns 16 

### during their presentations. Clearly we're very 17 

### concerned that this rulemaking ignores a 18 

### successful 40-year history of in-situ uranium 19 

### recovery in the United States. 20


### We are also concerned that the EPA has 21 

### not properly considered its role and its 2270

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### jurisdictional limitations under UMTRCA. Whether 1 

### it appears that the EPA has not taken appropriate 2 

### effort to scientifically justify this ruling, the 3 

### recommendations of the EPA Science Advisory Board 4 

### seem to have been ignored. 5 

### The body of scientific evidence 6 

### demonstrates that the EPA mischaracterized the 7


### health effects -- the human health effects of 8 

### oral intake of uranium as a cancer-causing 9 

### carcinogen. 10 

### The proposed rule creates uncertainty on 11 

### the ability to reach final closure of a facility 12 

### that places every ISR facility at financial risk. 13 

### Member companies have taken the time 14 

### required to prepare meaningful analysis of the 15 

### potential economic impact of the rule and have 16 

### concluded that the EPA truly missed the mark on 17 

### its financial evaluations. 18 

### Finally, you will hear our concern that 19 

### the EPA has not made appropriate effort to reach 20 

### out to the industry and regulatory community 21 

### prior to publishing this rule. The EPA justifies 2271

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### the need for this rule by suggesting that current 1 

### UMTRCA regulations do not explicitly address the 2 

### alteration of groundwater that occurs during the 3 

### ISR process. It seems to me inherently obvious 4 

### that a rule that addresses uranium mill tailings 5 

### facility standards would not be looking at 6 

### groundwater impacts from a form of uranium 7 

### recovery that does not involve bringing ore to 8 

### the surface or establishing engineered mill 9 

### tailing impoundments. 10 

### Is the EPA deliberately trying to fit a 11 

### square peg into a round hole with this 12 

### rulemaking? A close scrutiny of the legal 13 

### authorities established under UMTRCA suggest that 14 

### placing the subsection on ISR within 40 CFR 192 15 

### is not consistent with the intent of the Act even 16 

### if you wrongly -- even if you wrongly extend 17 

### EPA's authority under UMTRCA for this activity, 18 

### you would have to recognize that EPA's authority 19 

### is limited to setting generally applicable 20


### standards. 21 

### In our view, this rulemaking goes far 2272

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### beyond that. The rulemaking blurs the line 1 

### between setting generally applicable standards 2 

### and establishing specific steps an operator must 3 

### take to demonstrate compliance with those 4


### standards. 5 

### It's the EPA's stated goal that this 6 

### rulemaking would develop requirements to 7 

### characterize the background of water chemistry -- 8 

### background water chemistry requirements to meet 9 

### restoration goals for 13 constituents and 10 

### requirements for long-term stability monitoring. 11 

### If the EPA had made appropriate effort to 12 

### consult with the state and federal agencies that 13 

### already regulate the ISR industry, they would 14 

### have recognized that the ISR uranium facilities 15 

### are already highly regulated at every phase of 16 

### the operation. Existing state and federal 17 

### regulations require an ISR operator to 18 

### characterize the pre operational baseline water 19 

### quality to restore groundwater to baseline 20 

### conditions and to demonstrate stability. 21 

### We're troubled why the EPA did not reach 2273

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### out to the industry, to the federal agencies, and 1 

### the state regulators to learn more about the 2 

### existing requirements and successful history of 3 

### restoration. 4 

### Your requirement for 30 years of post5 

### restoration groundwater water monitoring is 6 

### outside the scope of the EPA's authority and is 7 

### not supported by science. This requirement may 8 

### threaten the economics of the uranium recovery 9 

### projects in the United States, unnecessarily tie 10 

### up land, water, and human capital resources; will 11 

### make it very difficult to lease land; but our 12 

### main concern is that the EPA has presented no 13 

### evidence to show that the ISR uranium recovery 14 

### operations have adversely impacted adjacent 15 

### aquifers or that a 30-year monitoring period is 16


### warranted. 17 

### Simply put, this rulemaking has not been 18 

### technically justified by the EPA. The EPA has 19 

### not articulated the benefits of this proposed 20 

### rule. The EPA notes said it is difficult to 21 

### characterize the probability or magnitude of 2274

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### future contamination problems. The EPA can only 1 

### cite probable or possible benefits. In addition 2 

### to failing to outline the benefits of the 3 

### rulemaking, EPA has grossly underestimated the 4 

### costs. The EPA estimates make no mention of the 5 

### added costs of leasing land, maintaining surety 6 

### bonds, and maintaining staff and equipment on 7 

### site for an additional 30 years. 8 

### While the body of evidence and comments 9 

### collectively provided by the Uranium Producers of 10 

### America is fully considered, there's only one 11 

### reasonable action the EPA could take. We urge 12 

### the EPA to withdraw this rulemaking and work with 13 

### the uranium industry, state regulators, and the 14 

### NRC to determine if any meaningful updates are 15 

### scientifically justified that would strengthen 16 

### the existing standards regarding the activities 17 

### of this important industry. Thank you. 18 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you, Wayne. 19 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 20 

### MR. MINTER: I'd like to call up our next 21 

### scheduled speaker. Eric Nelson, if you could 2275

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### come forward, please? Eric, if you could spell 1 

### your full name for the court reporter this 2 

### morning and let us know who you're representing 3 

### at the hearing today? 4 

### MR. NELSON: My name is Eric Nelson, 5 

### E-R-I-C, last name Nelson, N-E-L-S-O-N. I am 6 

### appearing today on behalf of the Casper Area 7


### Chamber of Commerce. 8 

### The Chamber of Commerce represents 850 9 

### local businesses in Casper and central Wyoming, 10 

### including several uranium mining companies and a 11 

### number of ancillary service providers to the 12 

### uranium industry. 13 

### We are here today to voice our position 14 

### against the proposed rulemaking and request that 15 

### the EPA withdraw the proposed rule for a number 16 

### of reasons. First and foremost, there is a lack 17 

### of science supporting the need for the proposed 18 

### rules. Others have appeared before you today 19 

### with much more technical and in-depth analysis of 20 

### the lack of scientific support; but the Chamber 21 

### fully agrees that 30 years of groundwater 2276

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### monitoring is not supported at this time. It is 1 

### unnecessary for protection of health and human 2 

### safety. 3 

### There is really a lack of an issue to be 4 

### addressed with this rule, and we would ask that 5 

### it be withdrawn. 6 

### Perhaps the most significant impact from 7 

### the Chamber's perspective is the economic impact 8 

### to the local economy and its local small 9 

### businesses. We feel that this has not been 10 

### adequately addressed during the promulgation of 11 

### the proposed rule. 12 

### Not only will local uranium mining 13 

### companies and the uranium companies nationwide be 14 

### directly affected in a negative way, making, 15 

### perhaps, some operations economically unviable, 16 

### but it will also significantly impact small 17 

### business owners. These small business owners are 18 

### the drivers of our local economy. They provide 19 

### jobs. They provide tax revenue for our local 20 

### governments. And we feel that the negative -- 21 

### the economic impact to these businesses far 2277

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### outweighs any benefit that could be imparted 1 

### through the adoption of this rule. 2 

### So, we would ask that the EPA, at the 3 

### very least, withdraw the rule and take a step 4


### back. The Chamber feels that the EPA needs to 5 

### reevaluate the scientific basis for the proposed 6 

### rule to take a look at the several peer reviewed 7 

### studies that are in progress and/or may have 8 

### recently been completed. We feel that the EPA 9 

### has not consulted fully with the industry and all 10 

### stakeholders that would be affected by the 11 

### promulgations of this rule, including the state 12 

### and local regulators and governments. 13 

### And, finally, fully take into account the 14 

### negative economic impacts from a cost-benefit 15 

### analysis standpoint that the proposed rule would 16 

### have on local economies in the Casper area 17 

### specifically. 18 

### I thank you for your time and the 19 

### opportunity to speak. That's all I have. 20 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 21 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. I would like to 2278

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### call our next scheduled speaker. Donna Wichers, 1 

### if you could come forward, please. 2 

### Donna, if you could spell your complete 3 

### name and state who you're representing today for 4 

### our court reporter? Thank you. 5 

### MS. WICHERS: My name is Donna Wichers, 6 

### D-O-N-N-A, W-I-C-H-E-R-S. Is this on? 7


### MR. MINTER: Yes. 8 

### MS. WICHERS: Yes. Okay. 9 

### Thank you. My name is Donna Wichers. I 10 

### on the Board of Directors of Uranium One 11 

### Americas. Thank you for the opportunity to 12 

### provide comment today. 13 

### Our parent, Uranium One, Inc., is a 14 

### global uranium company with six operating ISR 15 

### uranium mines in Kazakhstan, one operating ISR 16 

### uranium mine in Johnson County, Wyoming, an ISR 17 

### mine in Australia, and a very large uranium 18 

### project in Tanzania. Uranium One also loans the 19 

### fully licensed Moore Ranch ISR uranium project in 20 

### Campbell County, Wyoming, as well as three other 21 

### Wyoming ISR uranium developer projects in the 2279

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### licensing process. This is our -- excuse me -- 1 

### Ludeman, Allemand Ross, and Antelope/JAB. 2 

### I was present at the hearing last night, 3 

### and EPA took comments from some very well spoken 4 

### industry, engineering, medical, and academia 5 

### representatives on why this proposed rule should 6 

### not be promulgated. I was planning to reiterate 7 

### these reasons, but for the sake of time, I will 8 

### forego, but there were two points that I would 9 

### like to -- to make. 10 

### EPA based the rulemaking on severely 11 

### flawed and under estimated economics, especially 12 

### cost to the operator for the 30-year long-term 13 

### stability monitoring period. 14 

### EPA did also not fully consider risk. 15 

### Sound regulation should be based on the 16 

### quantification of the reduction in risks caused 17 

### by the regulation. This was never accounted for 18 

### in the proposed rule. 19 

### EPA has provided no supporting 20 

### information that the proposed standards will 21 

### reduce risk. So I would like to provide you with 2280

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### my assessment of risk but from the opposite 1 

### viewpoint of increased risk to a producer of 2 

### uranium. 3 

### All uranium producers have long-term 4 

### forecasts of mine plans, production, and revenue, 5 

### restoration and decommission schedule, and the 6 

### associated cost. In our company we call this our 7 

### Life of Mine Plan. Our current Life of Mine 8 

### includes the permitting, mining, groundwater 9 

### restoration, and decommissioning plan and costs 10 

### for five large projects in Wyoming. 11 

### Associated with those projects are the 12 

### mining areas or what we call well fields. Our 13 

### Life of Mine today includes the mining and 14 

### restoration of 46 well fields over a 30-year 15 

### period. This includes an estimate of two years 16 

### of mining, three years of restoration and 17 

### stabilization monitoring, then another year for 18 

### decommissioning of the well fields. 19 

### If this rule is promulgated along with 20 

### the three years of stability monitoring plus an 21 

### additional 30 years of long-term stability 2281

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### monitoring, this will result in our Life of Mine 1 

### going from a 30-year plan with a positive net 2 

### present value, NPV, and internal rate of return 3 

### to potentially a 300-year plan with an 4 

### unrealistically negative NPV and IRR. 5 

### During these 300 years we will have only 6 

### 20 years of production and revenues and 280 years 7 

### of simply spending money. The cost of extended 8 

### long-term monitoring is devastating. We cannot 9 

### decommission the well fields, so the groundwater 10 

### and decommissioning financials sureties must 11 

### remain in place. We must pay lease fees to our 12 

### land owners. We must keep facilities operational 13 

### and maintain some personnel during this period. 14 

### And EPA, to my knowledge, has not even considered 15 

### these issues. How will our land owners feel 16 

### about losing the use of their land for their 17 

### lifetime and their family's lifetimes? 18 

### EPA's estimated cost for long-term 19 

### monitoring at ISR facilities is grossly 20 

### inadequate and does not address the full 21 

### complement of legal issues, loss of land issues, 2282

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### and regulatory issues. 1 

### As a member of the Uranium One Americas 2 

### board, I can tell you that our company will not 3 

### consider investing one more penny in ISR 4 

### operations in the U.S. if this rule is 5 

### promulgated. Why should they? It is too risky, 6 

### and it is obviously a money-losing proposition. 7 

### They will take their capital investment to other 8 

### countries. 9 

### I thank you for the opportunity to 10 

### provide comment and for coming to Wyoming, the 11 

### heart of the domestic uranium industry. I 12 

### repeat, there is a huge and inevitable risk that 13 

### this rule will devastate the domestic uranium 14 

### industry in the United States. With all due 15 

### respect, Uranium One Americas asks that EPA 16 

### withdraw this rulemaking. Thank you. 17 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 18 

### At this time I'd like to remind folks 19 

### that if you're in attendance today and have not 20 

### registered, we need you to do that. 21 

### And now I'd like to ask if there are any 2283

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### folks who have not had the opportunity to speak 1 

### this morning whether they would like to do so. 2 

### Is there anyone here this morning who has not 3 

### spoken who would like to take five minutes to do 4


### so on the record? 5


### Yes? 6 

### MR. SUTHERLAND: Do I sit up here? 7 

### MR. MINTER: Yes, please sit up there, 8 

### and go ahead and introduce yourself. Please 9 

### spell your complete name for the court reporter 10 

### this morning, and let us know who -- what your 11 

### affiliation is. Thank you. 12 

### MR. SUTHERLAND: Brad Sutherland, 13 

### B-R-A-D, S-U-T-H-E-R-L-A-N-D. I guess I'm here 14 

### as a private citizen. I was born and raised in 15 

### Wyoming. I know that uranium does threaten our 16 

### drinking water here in Wyoming. Seems like the 17 

### closer you get to put down your wells for 18 

### drinking water to the river, the more uranium you 19 

### often run into. So, I am thankful that there are 20 

### companies willing to come in and flush out the 21 

### uranium from our groundwater. 2284

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### I know you're concerned about disturbing 1 

### the groundwater, but, again, I'd like to remind 2 

### you that it's always flowing, always draining, 3 

### and oftentimes being pumped out for irrigation. 4 

### So, it's always being disturbed. 5 

### And it seems like there's no real data 6 

### about the hazards of what's -- the uranium mines 7 

### are doing. And the 30-year monitoring is just 8 

### putting the burden on industry to see if there 9 

### might be some problems. I think that burden 10 

### should be on the federal government if they're 11 

### interested in studying it but not on the 12 

### industry. That's all. 13 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. Are there any 14 

### others this morning who -- or in attendance that 15 

### would like to speak at this time who have not 16


### done so? 17 

### (Person indicating.) 18 

### MR. MINTER: Yes. Please come up, have a 19 

### seat. Please state your full name, spell it for 20 

### the court reporter, and let us know who you're 21 

### affiliated with. Thank you. 2285

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### MR. CATCHPOLE: Glenn Catchpole, 1 

### G-L-E-N-N, Catchpole, C-A-T-C-H-P-O-L-E. 2 

### First of all, thank you for allowing me 3 

### this opportunity to talk to you today. I am the 4 

### Chief Executive Officer and a Director of Uranerz 5 

### Energy Corporation. We have an operating uranium 6 

### mine in Johnson County, and we've been into 7 

### production for a couple years now. 8 

### The -- the thing I want to concentrate on 9 

### in my -- there's many areas to talk about, but I 10 

### want to focus on one particular issue, and Ms. 11 

### Wichers who just talked a couple speakers before 12 

### me pointed out the burden of the 30-year 13 

### monitoring period and the economics and so forth. 14 

### I want to take a little bit of a different attack 15 

### and point out that if you have a 30-year margin 16 

### period, and you still hold your NRC license, your 17 

### DEQ permit, you've tied up the land, and you've 18 

### got reporting to do; you have to have an on-site 19 

### presence. It's not like you can just put a fence 20 

### around it and walk away because the bond is still 21 

### in place. You have a reclamation bond and you're 2286

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### paying for it. You're paying for employees. 1 

### And what concerns me most is that with 2 

### this you're having workers drive back and forth 3 

### to remote areas. Most of these mines are very 4 

### remote. They're off the highway, and there's 5 

### considerable risk in driving these roads. And 6 

### particularly in the wintertime we had a crew 7 

### coming out this winter during a blizzard, and 8 

### they were about two minutes ahead of a 10-car -- 9 

### 10-car pile-up with multiple injuries. And they 10 

### missed it by that much. 11 

### Those of you who know me and those of you 12


### who have worked for me know that I stress three 13 

### things to all my employees repeatedly is the 14 

### protection of the environment, protection of the 15 

### public, and protection of our workers. And I 16 

### stress that repeatedly. And here, if you're 17 

### going to analyze risk, you ought to look at the 18 

### risk of injury and the accident potential from 19 

### employees driving to and from these remote sites. 20 

### I'm sure that the Wyoming Department of Highways 21 

### has got statistics on it, and that ought to be 2287

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### factored because that's a real risk. We're not 1 

### just guessing or it might be or it could be; 2 

### there are those risks. 3 

### This past winter we had two multiple car, 4 

### truck pile ups in this state, one with 40 5 

### vehicles, another with 50. Deaths were involved. 6 

### It's a risky place for driving, and I would like 7 

### to ask you in looking at it to fully evaluate 8 

### that part of it. 9 

### My personal opinion is that risk is much 10 

### more than -- than the possible risk downgrading 11 

### groundwater, et cetera. 12 

### And lastly, I'd just ask -- and it's my 13 

### desire that you postpone this rulemaking. In 14 

### light of all the research that's going on, it 15 

### seems to be ignored. I think you should let that 16 

### research take its course and base your decisions 17 

### on the scientific method. Thank you very much 18 

### for this opportunity. 19 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. 20 

### MR. PEAKER: Thank you, Glenn. 21 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. Any other folks that 2288

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### care to come forward who have not spoken this 1 

### morning? 2 

### (No response.) 3 

### MR. MINTER: If not, I'd like to give the 4 

### folks who have spoken this morning to come back 5 

### up for another five minutes if they would like to 6 

### do so. Is there anyone who has spoken this 7 

### morning who would like an additional five minutes 8 

### on the record this morning? 9 

### (Indicating.) 10 

### MR. MINTER: Yes, Jim. 11 

### MR. CLAY: Thank you. I don't know if I 12 

### can do five minutes, but I wanted to -- 13 

### MR. PEAKE: Can you restate your name and 14



### -- 15 

### MR. CLAY: Sure. Jim Clay, J-I-M, 16


### C-L-A-Y. 17 

### One of the things I wanted to ask you 18 

### folks is if it's possible to -- I don't expect 19 

### you to answer right now but to give it some 20 

### thought about waiting two years to let some of 21 

### these peer review publications come out. This is 2289

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### what I want to get on the record. If you could 1 

### -- if you could do that, I'd appreciate it 2 

### because you would be better informed than you are 3



### now. 4 

### And that's not intended to be an insult. 5 

### It's just that there's been almost no peer review 6 

### literature on the record in terms of uranium ISR 7 

### mining. There's a number of things that purport 8 

### to be, but really don't have as much to do with 9 

### ISR mining as one might think initially. They 10 

### have to do with places like Hanford, with Rifle, 11 

### Colorado, with other tailings type situations 12 

### that aren't relevant to in-situ recovery. 13 

### Should be much easier to restore in an 14 

### in-situ recovery mine where you expressed it from 15 

### oxygen where the groundwater flows very low than 16 

### it is in, say, Rifle, Colorado where the water is 17 

### flowing two orders of magnitude faster than it is 18 

### at Smith Ranch. 19 

### John Cash mentioned earlier about the 20 

### fact that the modeling assumptions used in the 21 

### background of the EPA proposal basically 2290

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### indicated that the flow of the water is orders of 1 

### magnitude greater than it really is. That really 2


### matters. 3 

### Let's talk about it at some point. 4 

### Communicate with us, please, and we'll have 5 

### further discussions if you're willing to do that 6 

### about the science that's going on. 7 

### Thank you for listening to me. I 8 

### appreciate it. 9 

### MS. ROSENCRANTZ: Thank you. 10 

### MR. MINTER: Thank you. Any other folks 11 

### this morning who have spoken on the record and 12 

### who would like some additional time? 13 

### (No response.) 14 

### MR. MINTER: Okay. So I believe 15 

### procedurally at this point we're going to call a 16 

### recess. We will remain recessed until noon when 17 

### we will adjourn the hearing unless someone else 18 

### comes, registers, and -- and wants to speak on 19


### the record. 20 

### So, I believe, Tony, that at this time if 21 

### there's no more speakers, we're going to go in 2291

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### recess. We'll remain here for the duration of 1 

### the morning. And, again, we'll only open the 2 

### record back for purposes of additional comments 3 

### if someone signs up and cares to speak. If not, 4 

### we will then close the record and this hearing at 5 

### noon today. Thank you. 6 

### (Recess.) 7


### MR. MINTER: It's now noon. We've had 8 

### -- I'm assuming that we've had no new speakers, 9


### so we can go. 10 

### No one has indicated they want to speak, 11 

### so this hearing is adjourned. 12 

### (Whereupon, at 12:00 p.m. the public 13 

### hearing was concluded.) 14

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