Meeting Transcript 2

Miami City Commission

December 9, 2021

Afternoon Session

Transcript of excerpt of video recording available at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am3Ynqgl3us

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1 Commissioner Carollo: We have FR2 that we are going to carry and then in the D1 

2 Discussion items the only one we have that hasn’t been deferred or withdrawn is the I-3 

3 redistricting. 

4 Mr. De Grandy: Madam Chair. Let me first recap where we are. Last meeting there was 

5 a consensus on the following: one, achieve substantial equality as opposed to mathematical 

6 equality. Maintain the core of districts, wherever feasible. Look at voter cohesion and preserve 

7 traditional neighborhoods and communities of interest together, also when feasible. There’s 

8 other criteria that have not been discussed. I assume that you want to include contiguity; you 

9 don’t want districts broken up by another district so that’s a factor to consider and for you to 

10 direct me to enforce. There’s the issue of compactness. Compactness, quite frankly, in this plan 

11 would be extremely difficult to achieve. Then there’s also another traditional redistricting 

12 criteria, which is the use of man-made or natural boundaries. 

13 Now in terms of timing, I think it was Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla that inquired if 

14 we go past March what are the consequences. I had the opportunity to have a discussion with 

15 the supervisor of elections. If the plan is approved by March, then they can do the reprecincting 

16 together with the county at no cost to the city. If the plan is not ready in time and the 

17 reprecincting has to occur after they have reprecinct the entire county. The approximate cost in 

18 staff time, and she said that’s very ballpark could be more or less, is $20,000. The approximate 

19 cost of production of new voter cards, mailing costs, et cetera would be approximately 

20 $115,000, for a total of $135,000. That’s basically the information that I have now. The 

21 purpose of this meeting, as I understand it, was for you all to consider additional criteria, and 

22 direct me accordingly. So, I am at your disposal. 

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Chairman, What’s the total cost?

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1 Commissioner Carollo: 135.

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: 135.

3 Mr. De Grandy: 135.

4 Commissioner Carollo: If I may, Commissioners, while the cost is real money, it’s at 

5 the same time, that’s something that is going to break —

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Break the bank.

7 Commissioner Carollo: — if we need to go over. However, I want to be very clear, I 

8 would like to see if we can do and make every effort to finalize this by March. The reason is I 

9 think it’s important, in districts that are going to gain additional areas that you get to know 

10 those areas better. That Commissioners can work with the new areas more, for instance, in your 

11 case Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla, you need to acquire seven, eight thousand more people. 

12 The only logical way that you get more is by going toward Wynwood, I believe. That’s mainly 

13 a Hispanic area. That’s because if you go some of the other ways, you start getting districts that 

14 get broken up. You got some other areas along the river. 

15 On your side of the river, across from mine, that I think are also areas you could go and 

16 are attractive. Those are non-African American areas, mainly Hispanic or Anglo basically, that 

17 are in District 5. District 5 is going to have to acquire some additional areas also. What I 

18 suggest, strongly, is that you meet with Mr. De Grandy so you can go over it with him. What 

19 are some of your preferences? Commissioner King also, even though she got newly elected, she 

20 will be running again in the future, on re-election. She’s gonna do a good job. He could come 

21 back to us, hopefully, in January some time. We can look at a plan that most of us have given 

22 serious input. Then we could find whatever else we have to, then. Have a public hearing on it. 

23 That’s just 20% up here, giving an opinion. That’s all that it is.

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1 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Well, Mr. De Grandy, I happen to be in a place that 

2 I happen to be in the middle of, right? I’m in the middle of the city, right. So I’m in the middle.

3 Mr. De Grandy: Kind of, yes.

4 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Yeah, right. So, there’s an artificial boundary that is 

5 I-95, right? And you count I-95, or US 1 for that matter, as artificial boundaries. Right?

6 Mr. De Grandy: Those are man-made.

7 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Man-made.

8 Mr. De Grandy: Man-made and natural—

9 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Natural boundaries and artificial boundaries, right?

10 Mr. De Grandy: —that includes highways, section line roads—

11 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: So I-95 and US 1—

12 Mr. De Grandy: The river—

13 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: The river, that’s natural, the artificial would be I-95, 

14 US 1. Right?

15 Mr. De Grandy: US 1, section line roads—

16 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: —right, railways—

17 Mr. De Grandy: —major roads, as opposed to a street in a neighborhood.

18 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Right. So, because I happen to be in the middle. I’m 

19 in District 1, and my district happens to be in the middle. I really can’t go north, right? Because 

20 the northern district is a protected category, right? It’s an African American area.

21 Mr. De Grandy: Yes.

22 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Right?

23 Mr. De Grandy: I’d have to look at what the numbers are in terms of racial composition 

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1 in the boundary, but generally, yes you’re correct.

2 Commissioner Carollo: The only area here—

3 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Let me finish here.

4 Commissioner Carollo: —if I could just say this, so you keep it in mind.

5 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Okay.

6 Commissioner Carollo: The only area that — I don’t know if it’s mainly Hispanic, or if 

7 it’s more African American — that you might possibly go up, and this is just going to be like a 

8 hair — is up towards that part of 36th Street.

9 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Correct, or, maybe up to 40th Street. 40th or 

10 something like that.

11 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, so that you can even your district out, but that’s minute. 

12 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Right.

13 Commissioner Carollo: That’s the only area north that maybe can go up, maybe not.

14 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Right and in some parts of the district I go up to 

15 38th/112, right? In some parts, I only go up to 36th, maybe I go up to 38th. I’m getting to the 

16 minutia on the details.

17 Mr. De Grandy: Yes.

18 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: But in essence, if we go beyond 112, north of 112

19 we are entering into African American neighborhoods. 

20 Commissioner Carollo: Yes.

21 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: And we can’t touch that area.

22 Commissioner Carollo: Well you can’t, ’cause then you will be taking away from the 

23 purpose of why we did the districts to begin with.

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1 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Correct.

2 Mr. De Grandy: We cannot dilute the voting strength —

3 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Can’t dilute the voting strength —

4 Mr. De Grandy: — of that community.

5 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: So the logical thing – and then follow me and tell 

6 me if I’m wrong, is that I will go south, right? I can’t go west, because Miami ends where I 

7 end, right? So I will have to go south. I being District 1, not me, it could be anybody else. But, 

8 District 1 will have to go somewhat south.

9 Mr. De Grandy: Possibly, yes.

10 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Right, and that means Districts 4 and 3 will have to 

11 go, will have to kind of figure it out, between 3 and 4 on how they split that up. They still need 

12 to add people. But they have places like Douglas Park, 577 those places that will be added. 

13 Right? I don’t know if it’s enough people to make it up. But, to maintain the integrity of each 

14 district, we sort of could figure out how these three districts, right, 1, 3, and 4 could be kept 

15 whole, for a lack of a better term, without going into District 2 and other areas like that. We’re 

16 gonna have to go into District 2 but we really want to go peripherally, a little bit into District 2, 

17 take away 28,000 plus that he has [gesturing to Commissioner Russell] that he’s 

18 overrepresenting. 

19 Commissioner Carollo: District 2 is going to change considerably anyway you want to 

20 look at it. 

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: You gotta take some of those out.

22 Commissioner Carollo: It’s gonna be totally different. 

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: So to avoid any of the petty fights about which 

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1 avenue and which street, at the end of the day, in the District 1 case, we’re kind of in the 

2 middle. We have to protect District 5. 3, and 4, we have to make sure that we keep the 

3 structural integrity and the ethnic integrity, for lack of a better term again, in those two districts. 

4 We can add people from District 2 to kind of get there. Is there a problem with splitting 

5 Coconut Grove up? 

6 Commissioner Russell: Oh, yes. Let me get the microphone. Yes. 

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, no, no. Well maybe to you, but you’re 20% like 

8 Commissioner Carollo is 20%. 

9 Commissioner Reyes: And like I am. I’m 20%. 

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: We’re all 20%. 

11 Commissioner Reyes: We’re 20 percenters. 

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: We’re the 20 percenters, here right.

13 Commissioner Carollo: And this one is not 50 + 1 its 60. 

14 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: The question, the legal question to you, is there a 

15 problem with this. Coconut Grove is also — like Coral Gables is a different city but there’s 

16 ethnic diversity in Coconut Grove too. Is there a problem with splitting Coconut Grove as an 

17 entity? Based on where the Hispanic voters live? Let’s say Bay Heights, areas like that, verses 

18 other areas. Is there an issue with that? 

19 Mr. De Grandy: Let me rephrase your question. Instead of problem if the question is, is 

20 there a legal impediment 

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s what I meant. 

22 Mr. De Grandy: There is no legal impediment to breaking up any community of 

23 interest. It’s up to you to provide that policy. 

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1 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right, the communities of interest are something that 

2 no longer applies, so there is no problem if we decide, if this Commission as a body, let’s say 

3 three of the 20 percenters get to 60%. They are able to decide that hey, it’s okay to take some of 

4 those precincts and move them into some other districts and take away some of the 28K plus 

5 that you have [looking at Commissione Russell] in additional voters or residents that you 

6 shouldn’t have. Is that okay? Then is that okay to also split up other communities to the east of 

7 all these districts because Commissioner Russell in District 2 circles all these right and it goes 

8 like this? 

9 Mr. De Grandy: Yeah. 

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Is it okay to go —

11 Mr. De Grandy: Yeah, there is no legal impediment breaking up any community of 

12 interest. 

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay. 

14 Mr. De Grandy: I could break up Little Havana if you direct me too. Not that you will. 

15 But there is no legal limit. 

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: But the problem that we have and that’s really my 

17 question, it’s really legal impediments. The problem that we have is there’s no reason for that 

18 because we’re all kind of in the middle. I’m here, or District 1 is here, District 4 is here, District 

19 3 is here. And District 5 is here, and then District 2 runs all the way around. So the only one 

20 that has an abundance of voting-age population is this one. Not you ‘this one,’ but District 2. So 

21 what happens is we have to take away from him no matter what.

22 Mr. De Grandy: Yup.

23 Commissioner Carollo: Yup.

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1 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: No matter what. So our debate could be about 

2 whether it’s 3rd Street, or 2nd Street, or 4th Street, or 1st Street, who cares? Those are all 

3 common communities.

4 Mr. De Grandy: Functionally commissioner, I have a wall between District 5 and 

5 District 2. Now, I can play around the edges there without diluting that minority community, 

6 but I can’t get 28,000. So, functionally I have to get a big chunk of the overpopulation in 

7 District 2 from the southern part of that district.

8 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Right, that’s my question. But I’m almost done—

9 Commissioner Russell: That’s not necessarily true

10 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Well, let me finish and then, Mr. Chair, if I may.

11 Commissioner Carollo: Sure.

12 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: And you’re going to get as much as you can from 

13 the east, right? Functionally, that wall, you’re going to move it as far east as you can.

14 Mr. De Grandy: Yes.

15 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Without impacting the minority district, District 5.

16

17 Mr. De Grandy: Correct.

18 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: That is the African American district, right.

19 Mr. De Grandy: Without diluting.

20 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: We need as much as you can get without impacting 

21 — without diluting District 5. And then let’s say you have 8,000, 10,000, 12,000 people, 

22 whatever you get out of that, if you can get that much out.

23 Mr. De Grandy: I doubt it.

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1 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: I doubt it too. But, let’s say it’s 7,000 or 5,000, 

2 whatever. Then you gotta go to the south, right? So you gotta go across US 1 going south.

3 Mr. De Grandy: Yes.

4 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: How do you not dilute, then, District 3 and District 

5 4? Can you survive, can you keep the — again I’ll call it the ethnic integrity, let’s call it that for 

6 the lack of a better legal term. I’m not talking about legalities, ‘cause you’re the lawyer, that’s 

7 why you do what you do — the ethnic integrity of Districts 3 and 4, how far south can you go? 

8 And are there enough precincts around or contiguous to District 3 and 4 that allows you to add 

9 to them, ‘cause they don’t need that many people. Add to them without compromising the 

10 ethnic integrity of those Districts, 3 and 4.

11 Mr. De Grandy: District 3, commissioner, is approximately 88% Hispanic, and District 

12 4 is approximately 90% Hispanic. And so taking population that may not be that high 

13 percentage of Hispanic that may be on the other side of US 1 would not compromise the 

14 integrity of those districts, at the numbers that I have to make. Now if I had to put all 28,000 

15 into one district that may create an issue. I don’t think with these high numbers, it would. But I 

16 don’t think that District 3 or District 4 will be compromised in terms of that minority

17 community’s ability to elect candidates for choice.

18 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Mr. Chair if I may?

19 Commissioner Carollo: You do have the floor.

20 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: In terms of voting age population, how about what 

21 we discussed at our last commissioner meeting. In terms of electoral performance, have you 

22 looked at that?

23 Mr. De Grandy: That is what we look at as we’re crafting a plan. Let me take a step 

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1 back. Right now, we haven’t crafted any plan, because we don’t have your direction. If you 

2 give me all my marching orders today, that’s when I start drafting the plan.

3 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: We asked for you to get data, electoral data. You 

4 were going to buy something, you said it was going to be expensive. We’re not going to pay 

5 that much, and you were going to figure it out. Well that’s a different conversation—

6 Mr. De Grandy: If I understand what you all wanted, there’s two things. If you’re going 

7 to load all this data into a plan, it is time intensive and costly. If you are going to do the 

8 analysis, as you’re crafting a district, you don’t need to load the data.

9 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Correct.

10 Mr. De Grandy: Because you can look at what you were talking about, saying, hey I can 

11 get election information by precinct very cheaply. Of course you can, and we can look at that 

12 and say, here’s how we would be drawing the district, now let’s look at the precincts in there, 

13 how they performed in terms of voter cohesion, in terms of turnout, et cetera. We would not 

14 have to load the data.

15 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: In simple terms then, Mr. Chair.

16 Commissioner Carollo: You have the floor, when you’re done, let me know. We will go 

17 to Commissioner Russell. 

18 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Thank you sir.

19 Commissioner Carollo: And then we can go on to each other member of the 

20 commission.

21 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Thank you. In simple terms, if we’ve identified 

22 three precincts and we look at how many people voted that’s electoral performance in the last 

23 three elections - whether municipal or county elections. We know how many people vote, and 

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1 we also know how many people are registered. But we also know how many 18 plus voting age 

2 population people, we have, right?

3 Mr. De Grandy: Correct.

4 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: So we can do all that, and let’s say Commissioner 

5 Reyes or Commissioner Carollo or if I use names District 3 and District 4, needs 7,800 or 9,500 

6 we know we could add that immediately, right? We know that’s not difficult to get to, right?

7 Mr. De Grandy: Right.

8 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: So if we can do it that way, we have a better idea of 

9 how much of Coconut Grove we need to go into. By the way, Commissioner Russell, I don’t 

10 know about the rest of my colleagues, but I don’t have no interest in representing Coconut 

11 Grove, to be honest with you. But — I’m not sure if you do either.

12 Commissioner Carollo: I don’t think you’ll be able to make it from your district, all the 

13 way down.

14 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Exactly. So I know I’m never gonna get there. But I 

15 know that there’s a potential for two of them to get there. And I’m not sure that they are really 

16 hot about doing that anyway, right?

17 Commissioner Carollo: Unless you wanna give up all of Flagami, and I don’t think you 

18 want to do that either.

19 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: Yeah, that’s not gonna happen either. That’s not 

20 gonna happen so—

21 Commissioner Reyes: He’s part of Flagami, he wants my part of Flagami ‘cause then I 

22 would have to move.

23 Mr. De Grandy: There is one way you can get to the Grove is if you vote not to have 

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1 contiguity. If you vote to not have contiguity, I can give you a piece of the Grove. I wouldn’t 

2 recommend it, but you could do it.

3 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: I have no interest. To be honest with you, I love the 

4 Grove, great restaurants, but I don’t have any interest in getting any part of the Grove. Good 

5 restaurants, a good pizza place there too, by the way.

6 Commissioner Carollo: But did you change your interest, that we heard from the last

7 meeting on Wynwood, Wynwood—

8 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: That’s okay. Mr. Chairman, I’m only looking out 

9 for your interest. You don’t have another reelection, so I say hey look, the reality is we’re not 

10 really doing anything to benefit any particular one of us. It’s kind of how we — how the 

11 elected officials here represent — how we have categorical representation. How we have 

12 people that represent the people that are like them and think like them. Right? And that’s 

13 important, I think that’s important. So that’s what we have, we have a representative form of 

14 government, we have to have people that think like us, and we represent those people. 

15 So if we go into the Grove, what’s wrong with just getting a little bit of that to make 

16 sure that we don’t jeopardize the ethnic integrity of our districts, of these districts in particular,

17 these two the southern districts. And of course, without touching the racial integrity of District 

18 5. And the only place to go to is District 2. No matter where we go, whether we go east or 

19 whether we go south. So that’s kind of what my thinking and I’ll leave it at this. My thinking is 

20 you sort of work with that way of thinking of how we’re gonna get there. We have to take away 

21 from District 2, no matter what. Figure out a way to just give everybody a little bit, and we can 

22 because [looking at Commissioner Russell] you’re not a protected category, by the way. 

23 District 2 is not — white, Anglos are not protected. So if the district happens to go Hispanic, it 

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1 goes Hispanic. Right?

2 Commissioner Carollo: Let me say this.

3 Commissioner Díaz De La Portilla: And that’s it. So that’s kind of my thinking, and I’ll 

4 leave it at that.

5 Commissioner Carollo: The purest of the Hispanic districts is District 4, much more 

6 than [looking at Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla] yours or mine. And I say that because while 

7 we have to go by law in making districts, based on how many people live in them, once we 

8 break down on how many of those people are voters, that make a big difference. So they are not 

9 as pure in the percentage of the Hispanics that vote in these three districts. Particularly in my 

10 district and secondary in Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla’s district. And we have to also look 

11 at that. Because otherwise, the concept that I championed and brought up for the change with 

12 districts, so that we could keep a balance and harmony of this city, it’s gonna be changed. And 

13 where the biggest danger lies in it being changed — and it’s not in keeping an Anglo seat or a 

14 Black seat — will be in changing one or two of the Hispanic seats. 

15 Look, what you stated, that we would have to go into District 2, that’s a given. I don’t 

16 see how we’re not going to have to be able to go into the Grove and that the Grove is going to 

17 have to be split in either two or three parts. If you really think about it, the Grove, it’s got 

18 different points of views if you want to call it that. The southern part is very different from the 

19 center Grove, to the north part of Coconut Grove. I’m not even including the Bahamian Grove. 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right. 

21 Commissioner Carollo: That’s really a fourth area if we really get into it. The Grove —

22 I have to look at it, that it will be broken up into at least two areas. It could be in three 

23 depending how the numbers that you have break down. Then you’re gonna have to go 

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1 somewhere east also, instead of west. 

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I can’t go west. 

3 Commissioner Carollo: Well —

4 Commissioner Russell: Annexation. 

5 Commissioner Carollo: Not unless the County gives us, some of that land like they 

6 should. 

7 Commissioner Russell: Blue Lagoon, Brownsville.

8 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: We would have to annex — for me to go west we 

9 would have to annex the Pink Pussycat and we’re not gonna annex the Pink Pussycat so we’re 

10 good to go. 

11 Commissioner Reyes: Mr. Chair.

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s the reality. 

13 Commissioner Reyes: Mr. Chair, I think that —

14 Mr. De Grandy: I don’t think there’s population there, Commissioner. 

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’ve never been there so I don’t know.

16 Commissioner Reyes: Listening to everything that you have said. You see, all of this is 

17 kind of speculating. Unless you sit down and start moving lines and then bringing those 

18 suggestions to us, I don’t think we’re going anyway. You know very well that we want to 

19 maintain as much as possible the integrity of the districts. 

20 Mr. De Grandy: Correct. 

21 Commissioner Reyes: And also, Commissioner Carollo and Commissioner Díaz de la 

22 Portilla, they have a good point on it because the amount of voters that they have now, they are 

23 not necessarily representative of the population that they have. Because those two districts are 

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1 the two districts that I could bet that they have the biggest amount of non-voter residents 

2 because they are not American citizens. I don’t know if you agree with me Commissioner 

3 Carollo and Díaz de la Portilla. That is another thing when you are adding to those districts; 

4 you see you might be adding a voting block that could dwarf the population and the voting 

5 capability of the existing population. That is something, and I don’t envy your job. I don’t want 

6 it because anyway you do it you’re gonna get the wrath of all of us, you see, because everyone 

7 of us, we want to protect our district. Unless you bring something, my dear colleagues, we 

8 don’t know what’s going on. 

9 And Commissioner Russell, you are the one that’s gonna lose the most voters or the 

10 most people simply because you are overpopulated and that overpopulation has to be 

11 distributed in order to have some sort of equity in the numbers. I mean that’s it. Where are they 

12 gonna come from? I don’t know. You might have, it is logical because if you want to add to my 

13 district, I cannot go — talking the same way we were talking north, south, and east. I won’t be 

14 able to go north because I would be taking from Díaz de la Portilla that needs more voters. I 

15 cannot go west because I’m going to be hitting on Carollo and the only way that I can go is 

16 south. See? I mean this guy has to become a magician and at least we should allow him the 

17 opportunity to come and try to draw the lines based on what you have heard here. Come to 

18 every single one of our offices, like you did a few days back. You were in my office and you 

19 went by every single commissioner’s office and this is the way that it could be but you were 

20 showing a probability, this is probably what we’re going to do. Now we want you to be more 

21 specific and say your district might look like this if we do it like this. Then I will give you my 

22 opinion and Commissioner Carollo will give you an opinion and Commissioner King and so 

23 on, Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla. Then we will have our objections or our approvals and 

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1 then you will have to redraw. 

2 Mr. De Grandy: That’s correct. In terms of process, again, today I would like to leave 

3 with finalizing what your criteria is. There are still two or three things that we need to talk 

4 about. Once I have that I could proceed to start looking at lines, looking at voter turnout, 

5 looking at all those issues. 

6 Commissioner Reyes: Mr. Chair. 

7 Mr. De Grandy: And crafting a draft plan. When I do that I present the plan to you and 

8 it’s presented in a public hearing. You all can tell me I don’t like this. Move this line, move that 

9 line wherever there’s three votes, that’s what I do. Then I come back in a subsequent public 

10 hearing and present to you a final plan, but right now, what I need most is to finalize what are 

11 my marching orders? What’s my criteria? And then we’ll go from there. 

12 Commissioner Reyes: You have it. 

13 Mr. De Grandy: You still have three things —

14 Commissioner Carollo: No, no, no. 

15 Mr. De Grandy: — left, one, I assume you do want contiguity. 

16 Commissioner Russell: Yes. 

17 Commissioner Reyes: Yes. 

18 Mr. De Grandy: And if that — I see a consensus there.

19 Commissioner Carollo: As much as we can. 

20 Mr. De Grandy: Compactness, again, I don’t think compactness is a feasible alternative. 

21 In light of your wanting to maintain the core of existing districts et cetera. Is there a consensus 

22 on that one way or another? 

23 Commissioner Carollo: I wouldn’t have any problems taking it out because it’s going to 

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1 have some minor changes. 

2 Commissioner Russell: Compactness is not crucial. 

3 Mr. De Grandy: No, no. I have two no’s on compactness. 

4 Commissioner Russell: I mean, look at my district. That’s the least compact as a 

5 district.

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s 40%. The problem is that — Mr. Chair —

7 Mr. De Grandy: For compactness, I have to draw a new plan. I mean look at the districts 

8 the way they are drawn, they are not compact. 

9 Commissioner Reyes: Well, well, well, only yours is compact. 

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, not really so is yours and so is Commissioner —

11 Commissioner Reyes: No, because I go like this. 

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah, but the one that is least compact is 

13 Commissioner Russell’s district, District 2, right? 

14 Mr. De Grandy: That’s right. 

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s the one that goes all the way like that.

16 Mr. De Grandy: Right. 

17 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I have no problem getting rid of compactness at the 

18 end of the day. You said two or three things that you have to have direction on. 

19 Mr. De Grandy: Right. 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: What are those two or three things? 

21 Mr. De Grandy: Contiguity.

22 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Contiguity.

23 Mr. De Grandy: Compactness, I see three votes. Then the last one is use of man-made 

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1 or natural boundaries, yay or nay? 

2 Commissioner Carollo: That will be —

3 Commissioner Russell: As much as possible, yes. 

4 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah. 

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Well, no and let me tell you why. You have to cross 

6 US 1. 

7 Commissioner Reyes: That’s right. 

8 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, you have to. 

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s a man-made issue, right? So you have to cross 

10 US 1. Unless —

11 Commissioner King: Mr. Chair.

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: — the real question, hold on, Mr. Chair, if I may? 

13 The real question is, we haven’t done the math yet on whether we can get it on the eastside or 

14 enough on the southside without crossing US 1 or without crossing 95 at certain parts. Can we 

15 get there? And without impacting District 5. 

16 Mr. De Grandy: I don’t think —

17 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Do we have to cross US 1? Let me ask —

18 Mr. De Grandy: I think that’s very probable. 

19 Commissioner Carollo: You absolutely must. 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay. 

21 Mr. De Grandy: I think that’s very probable. 

22 Commissioner Carollo: Let me give you one simple one. District 2 has a big chunk with 

23 a very large park, Douglas, that’s across US 1. Very Hispanic area. 

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1 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right. 

2 Commissioner Carollo: That should have always been part of District 4, but it wasn’t. 

3 Commissioner Russell: On the north side of US 1. 

4 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, on the Northside.

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right, right. I’m saying they have to cross the US-1. 

6 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, but you’re gonna cross from both ways. 

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Oh, yeah you’re crossing, coming from south to 

8 north. My question is with that part in District 4 that we’re talking about with Douglas Park and 

9 all that area, are there 7 — how many votes is it in the district that he’s short? 

10 Mr. De Grandy: Let me see. 

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: If you take his district, if you take district 4, all the 

12 way without crossing US 1 going south.

13 Commissioner Reyes: 7,500. 

14 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay, can you get — ?

15 Mr. De Grandy: Yeah, 7,500.

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: 7500. 

17 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, but you can’t go by the votes. You gotta go by 

18 population. 

19 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Well, that’s why I’m asking, that’s why I’m asking. 

20 Mr. De Grandy: Approximately 78,000.

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: It’s voting age population, right. It’s VAP right? 

22 Mr. De Grandy: No, no. You do the plan based on total population. 

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: The whole population, not voting age population?

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1 Mr. De Grandy: Correct. 

2 Commissioner Carollo: Total population. 

3 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s even better, so is it possible for District 4, 

4 hypothetically, without crossing US 1 going south to make up whatever he needs, whatever 

5 District 4 needs with just those precincts without crossing that artificial boundary, US 1?

6 Mr. De Grandy: Yeah, it may be possible, and again —

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Well, those are the numbers that we need. Those are 

8 the numbers that we need. 

9 Mr. De Grandy: — based on the criteria, for example, you’ve already told me 

10 substantial equality is okay. So I can start looking at, okay, do I maybe under-populate all four 

11 districts by 5% and overpopulate District 2 by 5%. That means I have to move less than 28,000 

12 from it. 

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: So how many? You’re talking about 24, 25. 

14 Mr. De Grandy: It depends. 

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right. 

16 Mr. De Grandy: It depends on ultimately, what your criteria is and then how I can 

17 maneuver that. 

18 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: What I would like is to know what those numbers are 

19 before any public hearing, right, by our January meeting. 

20 Mr. De Grandy: I’ll meet with you. 

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, no, I — I don’t mean I. I mean the Commission.

22 Mr. De Grandy: Okay. 

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I want you to tell all of us, not me personally, all of 

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1 us, how you can get there with the numbers. If it’s all population how can we keep, the 

2 structural integrity of these districts without crossing US 1 and we have to cross it. If you’re 

3 sure that we have to cross US 1, how far south do we go when we cross? 

4 Mr. De Grandy: I think the best way to go is to actually draft a plan and show it to you. 

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yes, but weren’t you going to do that?

6 Mr. De Grandy: Yes. 

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Didn’t we talk about that? That you were going to 

8 give us 3 maps —

9 Mr. De Grandy: A draft plan. 

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: — 3 maps and we talked about that entire last 

11 Commission meeting. 

12 Mr. De Grandy: Well it depends on how many maps you want. 

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Well, I think Commissioner Carollo talked about two 

14 or three maps. 

15 Commissioner Carollo: Well, well, no, no. That meeting I mentioned two maps. 

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right. 

17 Commissioner Carollo: But what I’m saying is if we’re gonna be on target and less 

18 complicated. I think we need to establish a process to go forward. How quickly he can meet 

19 with every one of us.

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay. 

21 Commissioner Carollo: Then he’s going to have to come back and meet with us so that 

22 he could be ready in January to publicly present a plan. That obviously, that’s the plan that we 

23 could then give them our input until three of us come to a conclusion about what we wanted. 

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1 There’s two of us here that are not affected anymore, that can’t run again, that’s Commissioner 

2 Russell and myself. We’re term-limited out. He’s got two more years unless he resigns to run. I 

3 got four, but we both have an interest in our districts. I think his is similar in some ways to 

4 mine. But different in other ways. My main interest in my district and your district 

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla and Mr. Reyes’ district is that I’m sure that we’re going to 

6 keep the balance of the Hispanic population where we’re going to be getting Hispanics elected 

7 there. 

8 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Of course. 

9 Commissioner Carollo: In my district, for instance, and secondary is yours and a little 

10 bit in Little Haiti, in Commissioner King’s. We have tremendous undercounts in population. 

11 Why? Because it’s a working class neighborhood. They’re hard to count because they’re 

12 constantly moving. Two, you have a certain percentage of the population that is not here 

13 legally. They don’t want to be counted by the census, no matter what. So we have a tremendous 

14 — and I have the most under-counted district of them all. Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla is 

15 second. By a lot, a lot more than the others. This is where we also get hurt because then we’re 

16 having to go into other areas because we’re not counting the real population of the district. 

17 Then on top of that we have the handicap that that population, voting-wise, is smaller 

18 than other areas that you might go into where, if you go too much one way or another it could 

19 affect substantially a district in our three. In Commissioner Russell’s district, no matter how 

20 you cut it, you’re gonna have an Anglo elected to a district. 

21 Commissioner Russell: Or even a Japanese American.

22 Commissioner Carollo: Well, even a Japanese Anglo American. You might not get 

23 another one that can do the yo-yo so good, but —

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1 Commissioner Russell: Never. 

2 Commissioner Carollo: I agree with that. In Commissioner Kings district, there’s no 

3 way that I can see that any time soon you’re not going to have an African American elected 

4 there. The problem lies in the others. In my district in particular, with all the new buildings that 

5 I see that are going up the demographics are going to change tremendously. Where are those 

6 people going to come from? Tremendous amount from other parts of the county, South Florida, 

7 the state, a lot from up north, New York, Chicago, out west. So it’s changing the demographics 

8 tremendously. This is what I feel that I have an obligation to protect. Not just this district.

9 District 4, and District 1. The other districts, like I said, no matter how we carve them, they’re 

10 going to have the representation that we intended those districts to have for some time to come. 

11 Commissioner Reyes: Mr. Chair? 

12 Commissioner Carollo: Yes, go ahead.

13 Commissioner Reyes: I’m going to make a suggestion. I’m gonna ask Mr. De Grandy? 

14 Mr. De Grandy: Yes, sir. 

15 Commissioner Reyes: I heard you say that you can increase by 5% each district’s 

16 population and decrease by 2% District 2?

17 Mr. De Grandy: I could potentially find a way to under-populate the four districts by 

18 roughly 4 to 5%. Keep District 2 over-populated by 4 to 5% as long as I don’t have an overall 

19 more than ten I’m in pretty much a safe harbor. 

20 Commissioner Reyes: That’s it, you don’t have to equalize all of them. 

21 Mr. De Grandy: No, based on the criteria you passed. You asked for substantial 

22 equality. 

23 Commissioner Reyes: Yeah, that could be some difference, I mean a variation of 3 or 

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1 4% within each district.

2 Mr. De Grandy: Yes, sir. 

3 Commissioner Reyes: Okay, I would like — out of curiosity, when you’re going to 

4 bring us your proposal for how the lines are going to be drawn take that into consideration and 

5 see how it looks. 

6 Mr. De Grandy: Okay. 

7 Commissioner Reyes: Because if that is legal, that could also be an option that we could 

8 also try to research. 

9 Mr. De Grandy: That would create less disruption. 

10 Commissioner Reyes: Yes. 

11 Mr. De Grandy: Because what I’m hearing from you is, when you talk about 

12 maintaining the integrity of districts, the core of districts, is to minimize disruption. 

13 Commissioner Reyes: That’s right. 

14 Mr. De Grandy: I’m still going to have to ripple up. 

15 Commissioner Reyes: Yes, yes, yes. 

16 Mr. De Grandy: Because I have to get to Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla’s district as I 

17 ripple up so there will be changes in every district, but what I’m hearing is minimize disruption 

18 as much as you can. 

19 Commissioner Reyes: Yes. 

20 Mr. De Grandy: And I’ll try to do that. 

21 Commissioner Reyes: I would like to see that proposal. Included in any other proposal 

22 that you’re going to do changing, trying to equalize. But a proposal in which you are not totally 

23 equalizing there is a difference between the districts and population within the districts that 

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1 difference is within the law. 

2 Mr. De Grandy: Yes, sir. 

3 Commissioner Reyes: Okay. 

4 Commissioner Carollo: Thank you. 

5 Commissioner Russell: Mr. Chairman. 

6 Commissioner Carollo: Go ahead. 

7 Commissioner Russell: Thank you, yeah, Mr. De Grandy. I think you and I probably 

8 need to have the longest meeting because if it’s District 2 that’s getting broken up the most I’ve 

9 walked every corner of this district twice now or more than twice but two elections and so I 

10 know the demographic breakup of my district. I know their interests, I know the geographic 

11 breakup as well, and what would be cohesive, and what would be disruptive. Breaking up the 

12 Grove would be very disruptive in any sense. Even West Coconut Grove is a part of the Grove

13 and there’s enough of a stark contrast when you hit McDonald right now that we’re not trying 

14 to add to that. So we’re trying to bring inclusion there, not exclusion. 

15 US 1 is a pretty hard boundary. Especially in Bay Heights, you’ve got a large concrete 

16 wall even. But there’s plenty of opportunity in District 2 to equalize the districts without 

17 crossing US 1 into Coconut Grove. The biggest population boom is Downtown, not Coconut 

18 Grove. So between Downtown and Brickell, Brickell’s already broken up. You’d call West 

19 Brickell as it veers into District 3. Downtown, even Midtown, Midtown is a very clean barrier. 

20 That would — you’ve already got Biscayne Boulevard north of Midtown as the barrier and 

21 then it breaks west there. Coconut Grove ends with US 1. North of there, the Douglas Road 

22 area, even the industrial area in between Bird Road and US 1, you know what I’m talking 

23 about? 

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1 Mr. De Grandy: Yes.

2 Commissioner Russell: Right next to Coral Gables, is now becoming highly populated. 

3 It’s got more and more residential towers and more to come. The industrial’s shifting, but that’s 

4 not part of Coconut Grove and it is north of US 1. So there are plenty of places where District 2 

5 can equalize without breaking up Coconut Grove. And Coconut Grove also has its own elected 

6 body, being the Coconut Grove Village Council. Which is the only neighborhood in the city 

7 that has that distinction and at one point you all remember Coconut Grove was looking to 

8 secede. So I’m saying you’ve got a pretty cohesive unit of a part of a district that I wouldn’t 

9 mess with. But north of that, we do have some options. I’m still a believer in the seven-district

10 concept as a model to look at. Even just to study for the exercise, but I understand the will is 

11 not here on this Commission at this point, but I would like to have a long meeting with you so 

12 we can go through the modeling. 

13 Mr. De Grandy: Sure. 

14 Commissioner Russell: So we can come up with some various options that we can 

15 present in a concrete manner. Right now, we’re thinking very, you know, hypothetically 

16 without the numbers. I would like to work with you on that between now and the next meeting. 

17 Mr. De Grandy: Absolutely and I met, as you know, with your chief of staff, when I 

18 called to meet with you. But I’m happy to meet with you anytime you want. 

19 Commissioner Russell: We’ll do it. 

20 Mr. De Grandy: And you too. 

21 Commissioner Carollo: What I want to state again very firmly on the record that what I 

22 will not be in favor of is increasing the Commission to any further size. 

23 Mr. De Grandy: Nor do I have the ability to do that. 

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1 Commissioner Reyes: Me neither.

2 Commissioner Carollo: Well, I just want to put it on the record. I want to be very clear 

3 on that. Commissioner King.

4 Commissioner King: Mr. De Grandy, the last time you were here I think we 

5 were clear about the direction that we wanted you to proceed in. Could you repeat what were 

6 my directives just to make sure that I’m clear with the directive that I gave you. 

7 Mr. De Grandy: I didn’t take it by commissioners, I took it based on consensus. 

8 Commissioner King: Okay. 

9 Mr. De Grandy: But the directives I have so far is: achieve substantial equality as 

10 opposed to mathematical. Maintain the core of existing districts wherever feasible, which I 

11 believe you were very strongly in favor of. Look at the issues relative to voter cohesion.

12 Preserve traditional neighborhoods and communities of interests together when feasible. That 

13 was the motion. 

14 Commissioner King: Okay so that didn’t change did it? 

15 Commissioner Carollo: No. 

16 Mr. De Grandy: And that has not changed. The only additional things that we’ve looked 

17 at is contiguity you’re in agreement with. Compactness, I think there’s a consensus not to 

18 emphasize compactness. But you all need to vote on that. Then use of man-made and natural 

19 boundaries. 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on Mr. Chair.

21 Commissioner Carollo: Go ahead. 

22 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thank you, it is not possible to emphasize 

23 compactness and draw realistic districts, right. If you want to have an African American district 

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1 and you want to have an Anglo district it’s almost impossible. To emphasize compactness. 

2 Mr. De Grandy: Right. 

3 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: So it’s kind of like a foregone conclusion. 

4 Mr. De Grandy: Right now, the only compact district is District 3. 

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right. 

6 Mr. De Grandy: Okay, and so your plan is not really a plan of compact districts. 

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Correct.

8 Mr. De Grandy: If you said, I want compactness as my first priority. I kind of have to 

9 redraw your plan, okay. Now the other thing —

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: But I think you sort of got our consensus, I think you 

11 counted to three, right.

12 Mr. De Grandy: For no compactness.

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: For no compactness. 

14 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah. 

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thre out of five, I think that was pretty clear. 

16 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, I’m in agreement with that. 

17 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah, so I think those three commissioners I don’t 

18 know what Madam Chair thinks, but we were, the three out of five did not agree with 

19 compactness, that’s not a big deal for us. 

20 Mr. De Grandy: Right. 

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: But in terms of breaking up, Commissioner Russell 

22 made a point, which I want to get your legal opinion on this. Does it matter if we break up 

23 Coconut Grove, and does it really matter if Coconut Grove has a Village Council that wants to 

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1 secede from the union? At the end of the day, does that really matter to us? 

2 Mr. De Grandy: Again, matter is a —

3 Commissioner Carollo: They would still have a Village Council even if they’re in 

4 separate districts. 

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah, well what I mean is does it matter legally that 

6 Coconut Grove wants to secede from the union, in a sarcastic way. I mean secede from the city. 

7 Does it really matter that Coconut Grove doesn’t want to be a part of the City of Miami, if we 

8 break them up then? 

9 Mr. De Grandy: Matter is a political issue. Legally there is no —

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah, that’s what I said legal. I was very clear. 

11 Mr. De Grandy: Right. Whether it matters to you or not. 

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’m using matter to say, give me your legal opinion. 

13 Is there a legal impediment to us dividing Coconut Grove in half? 

14 Commissioner Carollo: None, none. 

15 Mr. De Grandy: No, there is no legal impediment for you to break up any traditional 

16 community. 

17 Commissioner Carollo: By the way we —

18 Commissioner Russell: I disagree and I’d like to ask a question to that point? 

19 Mr. De Grandy: Sure. 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Whoa, wait a minute. 

21 Commissioner Russell: The Village of West Grove —

22 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: But West Grove is very different than the rest of the 

23 Grove.

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1 Commissioner Russell: But it’s part of the Grove. 

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: But it’s very different. But I’m trying to avoid a 

3 debate. 

4 Commissioner Russell: And it can easily be disenfranchised as well. If it is cut up or 

5 split up you are affecting an at-risk population, am I right? 

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Do I have the floor Mr. Chair?

7 Mr. De Grandy: Let me — if I can —

8 Commissioner Carollo: You have the floor. 

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thank you sir. 

10 Mr. De Grandy: If I can Commissioner before you retake the floor give you an 

11 example —

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I never thought I lost it but that’s okay. 

13 Mr. De Grandy: If I can interrupt you then. 

14 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay. 

15 Mr. De Grandy: Just to give you an example of matters versus legal significance. When 

16 I was in the Legislature, and we drew a plan. My district only had one city, which was 

17 Sweetwater, and Sweetwater had two precincts. Sweetwater asked me to break up Sweetwater 

18 into two districts and actually gave me a proclamation and named Miguel De Grandy Day, 

19 because now they have two representatives. 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I remember that. 

21 Mr. De Grandy: So it’s a political question, whether you want to break up an area or 

22 not. There’s one train of thought that says you have two representatives. 

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Mr. Chair and that train of thought is that a particular 

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1 area has two representatives or two commissioners. They may do better. Then if they only have 

2 one, right? 

3 Mr. De Grandy: That was the consensus of Sweetwater. 

4 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Then one is more effective than the other one even 

5 better. So if you have two commissioners or two representatives in an area that may be even 

6 better for that particular area. The legal impediment is whether it really matters that we split up 

7 Coconut Grove. 

8 Mr. De Grandy: There is no legal impediment. 

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: There is no legal impediment.

10 Mr. De Grandy: It’s a policy issue. 

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: It’s a policy issue. Okay. 

12 Commissioner Carollo: Furthermore —

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thank you. 

14 Commissioner Carollo: — that question was crossed already back in 1996, I believe it 

15 was. When I think it was, Mr. Stearns, the attorney, somehow got signatures and in the middle 

16 of our financial crisis, the worst that the city ever had, we had to have a referendum on whether 

17 the City of Miami was going to still exist or was it going to be broken up into pieces that 

18 neighborhoods could go anywhere they wanted to or create their own city. And The City of 

19 Miami residence voted overwhelmingly. 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah. 

21 Commissioner Carollo: That we were going to stay as the City of Miami. 

22 Commissioner Reyes: Who brought that up? Was the group? 

23 Commissioner Carollo: It was Gene Stearns, an attorney.

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1 Commissioner Reyes: That’s right, I remember. 

2 Commissioner Carollo: I hope he’s still not mad at me. 

3 Commissioner Reyes: He’s no longer with us. 

4 Commissioner Carollo: Well, I think he’s representing some guy from Texas, he says or 

5 a guy that came from Texas these days. He’s in California. 

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah. 

7 Commissioner Carollo: Right now I think. 

8 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Los Angeles, right?

9 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, that’s what I hear. 

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah, yeah, and yeah. 

11 Commissioner Carollo: But I could be wrong. 

12 Commissioner Reyes: Mr. Chair?

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I think I read something about that.

14 Commissioner Reyes: Mr. Chair?

15 Commissioner Carollo: Yes, go ahead. 

16 Commissioner Reyes: May I? Mr. De Grandy? 

17 Mr. De Grandy: Sir? 

18 Commissioner Reyes: You got your directions, this is what you wanted? 

19 Mr. De Grandy: Yes sir. 

20 Commissioner Reyes: Okay, so just place it in the GPS and now go for it. 

21 Mr. De Grandy: All right. 

22 Commissioner Carollo: And bring one but quick precise plan back so we can work from 

23 that. 

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1 Commissioner Reyes: That’s right. 

2 Mr. De Grandy: Will do. 

3 Commissioner Carollo: Now what I like is a process that you make sure that you meet 

4 right away with each member of the Commission and it’s up to us to give him a time so I would 

5 really plead with each of you to give him time. Then from that initial meeting meet with 

6 commissioners as often as they need to meet with you. 

7 Mr. De Grandy: Sure. 

8 Commissioner Carollo: And I think each of us would at least want to meet with him 

9 twice if not more. 

10 Commissioner Reyes: Can I, can I?

11 Commissioner Carollo: Hold on. And then you’re going to come back. Do you think 

12 you’ll be ready for the first meeting in January? 

13 Mr. De Grandy: Probably the second meeting in January. 

14 Commissioner Carollo: Okay so you’ll come back for the second meeting in January 

15 and give us a full presentation. There’s where we’re gonna iron out where at least three of us, if 

16 that’s what it takes, are going to be at on the plan. Then the next step, if we approve a plan that 

17 day, the plan, is to then in February have a full blown out public hearing on the —

18 Mr. De Grandy: Final. 

19 Commissioner Carollo: — new districts approved by this Commission. 

20 Commissioner Reyes: If I may add sir? 

21 Commissioner Carollo: Yes, go ahead. 

22 Commissioner Reyes: You said bring a plan, but I would love to see what I requested 

23 before that you bring a plan without equalizing all the districts where you can have differences.

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Transcript 2 - Miami City Commission - Dec. 9, 2021 - Afternoon Session

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1 Mr. De Grandy: That’s where I’m heading right now. 

2 Commissioner Reyes: Percentage differences and you can bring a plan that you equalize 

3 it, but another one within the parameters of the law you can have difference within districts that 

4 way something that is going to be less disruptive. 

5 Mr. De Grandy: Got it. Anything else? 

6 Commissioner Carollo: I don’t believe so. Anything else anybody would like to add to 

7 Mr. De Grandy. Madam King? 

8 Commissioner King: No. 

9 Commissioner Carollo: Okay that’s it. 

10 Mr. De Grandy: Tomorrow I’ll be calling or emailing every one of your districts. If you 

11 can get back to me sooner than later I would appreciate it. 

12 Commissioner Carollo: Certainly. 

13 Mr. De Grandy: We’ll meet with each one of you as we’re starting to look at the data 

14 and proceed from there. 

15 Commissioner Carollo: Very good. 

16 Commissioner Reyes: Very good. 

17 Commissioner Carollo: Thank you Mr. De Grandy. 

18 Mr. De Grandy: Thank you. 

19 Commissioner Carollo: Okay we are done with all the D items. 

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