IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

CASE NO.: 1:22-cv-24066-KMM

GRACE, INC., et al.,

Plaintiffs,

vs.

CITY OF MIAMI,

Defendant.

________________________________________/

4343 W. Flagler Street

Suite 400

Miami, Florida

Friday, 10:05 a.m.

October 6, 2023

DEPOSITION

OF 

TODD HANNON

Taken on behalf of the Plaintiffs

Pursuant to a Notice of Taking Deposition

___

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APPEARANCES:

ACLU FOUNDATION OF FLORIDA, by

CAROLINE A. MCNAMARA, ESQ.,

NICHOLAS L.V. WARREN, ESQ., and

DANIEL B. TILLEY, ESQ., and

On behalf of the Plaintiffs.

DECHERT, LLP, by

CHRISTOPHER J. MERKEN, ESQ.,

Co-Counsel for the Plaintiffs.

GRAY ROBINSON, by

CHRISTOPHER N. JOHNSON, ESQ., and

On behalf of the Defendant.

WITNESS

TODD HANNON

Direct Examination (By Ms. McNamara) 3

 E X H I B I T S

Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 7 11

Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 8 77

Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 9 116

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THEREUPON:

TODD HANNON

was called as a witness by the Plaintiffs and, having 

first been duly sworn, was examined and testified as 

follows:

THE WITNESS: I do.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. Can you, please, state and spell your name, for 

the record?

A. My name is Todd Hannon. Todd, T-O-D-D, last 

name, Hannon, H-A-N-N-O-N.

Q. My name is Caroline McNamara. I am an attorney 

representing the Plaintiffs in this case. It's Grace, 

Incorporated versus the City of Miami, Case Number 

22-cv-24066, in the Southern District of Florida. 

Everyone has been identified. 

So we're here for deposition today. It's a 

question and answer session. I'm going to ask you 

questions, and then you just answer them. 

A. Okay.

Q. And since it's like in court, you have been 

sworn in, it's expected that you'll tell the truth. Do 

you understand that?

A. Yes. Yes.

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Q. We have the court reporter, who is recording 

this, so it's important that your answers are verbal. 

A. Understood.

Q. And your counsel has the ability to object to 

questions. You need to answer the question, unless 

counsel instructs you not to answer, and you decide to 

follow that instruction. 

If you don't understand, you can tell me. I 

could repeat the question, clarify it. 

And if you need any breaks, we can take a 

break. It's just that you can't take a break while a 

question is pending. 

Do you have any questions about that so far?

A. No.

Q. And this is a corporate representative 

deposition. You are here representing the City of 

Miami. Do you understand that?

A. Yes.

Q. And the City of Miami has designated you to 

answer questions on its behalf. 

A. Yes.

Q. Have you taken any medications or substances 

that would affect your ability to testify this morning?

A. No.

Q. Any medical conditions or anything else that 

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could affect your ability to testify?

A. No.

Q. Any other reason, besides those, that you might 

not be able to testify truthfully today?

A. No.

Q. Have you been deposed before?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that in your role that you're currently in 

or elsewhere?

A. Yes, in my role as City Clerk.

Q. How many times, would you say, you've been 

deposed before?

A. Maybe two to three.

Q. Can you tell me, one of the times, what was 

that case about?

A. It's been a while. So one of them had to do 

with a special election that the City held for a ballot 

question, and, essentially, there were -- the attorney 

representing, I guess, the Plaintiff, was simply asking 

questions about the noticing, such as, for a special 

election, what time frame do you have to notice the 

special election within, how did we notice the special 

election, along those lines. 

MS. MCNAMARA: Should we go off the record 

for a second? 

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(Short recess taken.)

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. And in that case, were you testifying as a 

representative of the City of Miami or was it in your 

individual capacity?

A. Oh, no, as a representative of the City of 

Miami, the City Clerk.

Q. Do you remember another case in which you were 

deposed?

A. I can't remember the exact specifics of the 

case. It's been a long time. It's been years since 

I've been deposed.

Q. It's been years? All good.

A. Which is a good thing for me, no complaints.

Q. Have you ever given testimony like in a City 

Commission hearing or a government hearing like that?

A. Testimony in a government hearing? 

Q. Like have you ever shown up before a government 

body and been sworn in and testified, like they do in 

Congress on TV, or something like that?

A. No. No.

Q. Have you ever given public statements on behalf 

of the City of Miami?

A. No. I usually give it to the Office of 

Communications. We have a Communications Director for 

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that.

Q. Would you describe yourself as being an 

internal employee of the City of Miami, as opposed to a 

public facing employee? 

A. That's the way I perceive myself, yes.

Q. Have you ever been involved in any lawsuits, 

outside of your work?

A. No.

Q. Have you ever been a party to a criminal case?

A. No. 

Q. Have you ever been arrested?

A. No.

Q. Or charged with a crime?

A. No.

Q. When did you learn that you would be testifying 

on behalf of the City of Miami for this deposition?

A. I believe, about a week ago.

Q. Did you do anything to prepare for this 

deposition?

A. I reviewed the City's Charter and the City's 

Code, and some invoices, you know, from previous 

elections.

Q. Did you talk to anybody else about it to 

prepare? 

MR. JOHNSON: And don't talk about any 

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conversations you had with counsel. Those 

would be privileged.

THE WITNESS: But if I had a meeting, would 

I -- 

MR. JOHNSON: If counsel is present, then 

don't discuss what was discussed.

THE WITNESS: Okay. 

Then, no.

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. So you didn't like, say, go down to talk to 

someone else in the office and say, "Hey, tell me about 

what's going on," with something related to the 

deposition?

A. No. 

Q. Would you say that you are familiar with the 

information that is covered in the topics, such that you 

did not feel that you needed to talk to other people to 

know what's going on?

A. To the extent that the City Clerk is involved, 

yes. I didn't feel as though there was any real 

necessity for me to speak with anybody else.

Q. Were there specific individuals you talked to, 

who are non-lawyers, who are employees of the City, even 

when maybe you met with lawyers, just the names of them?

A. Again, I didn't have a conversation with 

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anyone, really, outside of reading, you know, the 

Charter, the Code, going over some invoices and so 

forth, when I learned about the fact that I was going to 

be deposed.

Q. Did you review any documents?

A. You know, the City of Miami City Commission 

Resolution that called for a general municipal election 

this November. I looked at some invoices from previous 

elections, from like a special election and a general 

election. I went back and looked at the Code, 

particularly, I think, Section 49 -- I'm sorry, Charter 

Section 49, and of the Code, Chapter 16 or Section 16, 

but nothing beyond, really, what I would normally look 

at.

Q. The materials that you looked at, have those 

been produced to us in the discovery?

A. Well, I don't know.

Q. Do you know what a Bates number is?

A. No, I do not.

Q. Like a stamp with the numbering that signifies 

a document that's been marked for keeping track in a 

court case. 

A. I'm not aware of submitting any documents that 

would have a Bates number, no.

Q. Does the City of Miami use an internal document 

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management system that puts serial numbers on documents 

you print out?

A. Not serial numbers, no. When it comes to 

legislation, we use what's called Mediatrix (phonetic) 

to administer legislation, documents that are associated 

with agendas, documents that are submitted into the 

record during City Commission meetings, but they're not 

given a unique number or anything. It's usually 

associated with the file ID. 

Oh, here we go. When it comes to legislation, 

resolutions, ordinances, there's something known as a 

file ID, and so for you to be able to find it within our 

Mediatrix system, you need to have either the file ID 

number or the enact number. 

And so what we'll do on documents that's either 

accompanying -- or, normally, submitted into the record 

during City Commission meetings, we'll write the file ID 

number on the document, but we don't have any kind of 

internal system that assigns a number to documents, like 

submittals and backup documents, no.

Q. Did you review any of the court filings, like 

our complaint or any court rulings?

A. No. No.

Q. Did you review any transcripts of other 

depositions, for example, Mr. De Grandy's deposition, 

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which we took on Monday?

A. No.

Q. Did you -- I'll withdraw that. 

MS. MCNAMARA: I'm going to mark this as 

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7. 

MR. JOHNSON: Could we go get the coffee? 

MS. MCNAMARA: Oh, sure.

(Thereupon, Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 7 was 

marked for Identification.)

(Short recess taken.)

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. This is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7. Here's the 

marked copy for you. Do you recognize this document? 

A. Yes.

Q. You've looked at it before?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you describe what it is?

A. Plaintiffs' Notice of Rule 30(b)(6) Deposition, 

and essentially there are some subject matters that are 

going to be covered during the deposition.

Q. And do you understand that you've been 

designated for some of the specific numbered topics on 

this?

A. Yes.

Q. And which ones are those that you've been 

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designated to testify to?

A. The first and second subject matters.

Q. And you feel comfortable discussing those 

subject matters today?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. You can look at that, but I'm not 

going to ask -- I mean, you can keep it, but I'm going 

to move on now. 

A. Okay.

Q. So do you live in the City of Miami yourself?

A. Yes.

Q. What district do you live in?

A. District 4.

Q. What neighborhood?

A. What neighborhood would that be considered? 

It's West. It's over by the Shell Lumber store. So I 

don't know if that's a neighborhood, but west of 27th.

Q. How long have you lived there?

MR. SPRING: Shenandoah.

THE WITNESS: That's Shenandoah? Sorry. 

My apologies. I should probably know that. 

I'd say, about a year and a half.

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. Have you lived elsewhere, within the City of 

Miami, before that?

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A. Yes. Just down the street, where it was in 

District 2, Southwest 27th and Bird, over by the 

Flanigan's, if you need a reference point.

Q. How long have you been living in the City of 

Miami?

A. I would like -- I believe, around ten years, 

I'd like to say. Around ten years.

Q. What is your educational background?

A. I have a Bachelor's Degree from the University 

of California Berkeley in political science and a minor 

in public policy.

Q. Do you have any professional certifications?

A. No. 

Q. And what is your current job title with the 

City of Miami?

A. City Clerk.

Q. Are you based in City Hall?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you work in-person?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you ever do remote work or -- 

A. Normally, no. It's usually in-person.

Q. When did you start as the City Clerk?

A. January of 2013.

Q. And you've been in that position continuously 

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since then?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you obtain that position?

A. I was appointed by the City Commission. It's a 

Charter officer position.

Q. Did you hold any positions in the City of Miami 

prior to that?

A. Yes. I was originally employed with the City 

of Miami back in February of 2006. I started out as a 

Legislative Services Representative 1, an entry level 

position. I was promoted to Legislative Services 

Supervisor. And, then, from Legislative Services 

Supervisor, I was promoted to Assistant City Clerk. 

And, then, from Assistant City Clerk, I was appointed to 

City Clerk.

Q. Were you surprised when they appointed you to 

be the City Clerk?

A. I like to think that I earned it, but, no, I 

was happily surprised.

Q. Did they tell you beforehand or they -- 

A. No. No. It's all done at the Commission 

Meeting, and it's done by vote, and so you're left on 

pins and needles until the actual vote is taken. It's a 

little nerve-racking. 

Q. Does it have a set term?

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A. Well, every two years, I believe it's pursuant 

to the Charter, you're up for reappointment. And so 

essentially -- it's tied with every election cycle. So 

as the election cycle is -- as it's completed, then you 

basically will put a Resolution on an agenda to 

determine if they're going to reappoint you or not.

Q. Have you ever had any situations during your 

tenure when you were concerned that you wouldn't be 

reappointed? 

A. No. 

Sorry, I'm not trying to jinx it, but -- 

Q. Do you have relationships with the individual 

City Commissioners themselves?

A. I mean, professional relationships, but not 

personal, no. I don't hang out or go to dinner with 

anybody. 

Q. Do you have a direct report, who is considered 

your boss?

A. I have five different bosses.

Q. Who is the first of those five bosses?

A. Well, the District 1 City Commissioner, 

District 2 City Commissioner -- so it's the City 

Commissioners that are my bosses. 

Q. So you report directly to the Commissioners?

A. Yes.

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Q. And they control whether you stay in the 

position or not?

A. Correct.

Q. But you don't report to the City Attorney?

A. No.

Q. Or the City Manager?

A. No. Not even the Mayor.

Q. Is there any mechanism in the City for, say, 

the voters to vote you out or call a recall or 

something?

A. No.

Q. It's only through the Commission? 

A. Yes.

Q. But in theory -- I mean, I'm not saying this is 

happening, but, in theory, if there was like a movement 

of, new Clerk for Miami, the way people would do it is, 

they would have people run for the Commission, and they 

might run on that, and, then, when they're sworn in -- 

A. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh.

Q. Okay. But nothing like that has ever happened?

A. No. 

Q. Are you aware of that happening for previous 

City Clerks?

A. No.

Q. What was your previous job, before you joined 

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the City of Miami?

A. I worked for the pro tem of the California 

State Senate Don Perata. I worked out of his district 

offices as a district representative. 

Q. How long were you doing that?

A. I would say, four to five years. 

Q. Did you have other jobs in California 

government prior to that?

A. Prior to that? No. I was in the military for 

six years, from 1990 to '96. I graduated from college 

in 2001. So, after I graduated from college in 2001, I 

started working for the State Senator. 

Q. What branch of the military were you in?

A. Me? United States Navy. 

Q. What was your rank that you left at?

A. Operations Specialist 3rd Class Petty Officer.

Q. Were you on boats?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you travel anywhere overseas?

A. Yes, I've been all over the Far East and the 

Middle East and the South Pacific. 

Q. Did you like that?

A. Oh, it was the greatest decision ever made, 

hands down.

Q. How did you end up coming to the City of Miami?

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A. So I have family in West Palm Beach, and so, 

essentially, I'd been out in California for a long time, 

and I guess, as you get a little older, you begin to 

realize that being closer to family sometimes is more 

important than enjoying living in one of the best states 

in the country -- again, I'm biased -- and realized that 

it was probably time to head back east.

Q. Let's say that there was a rivalry between 

California and Florida, would you put yourself on the 

California side of that rivalry? 

A. Without a question. 

Q. I won't make you -- 

A. Just saying. 

Q. So can you describe what your job entails, like 

as a summary?

A. Briefly, I'm the Clerk of the Board. So I work 

with Commissioners on their legislation. Essentially, 

we are a repository for City Commission documents, 

whether it's current or archived documents. I oversee 

the lobbyist registration program for the City. I 

conduct the elections for the City. So that's just a 

few of the things to name.

Q. Do you have any people who report to you?

A. Yes. There's an office of twelve, including 

myself. I have an Assistant City Clerk, and a 

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Legislative Services Supervisor. There are four people 

in the Legislative Division, two in the Records 

Division. So it's a total of twelve, but they all 

answer or, I guess -- I'm responsible for supervising 

them. 

Q. You testified a minute ago that you have a 

professional working relationship with the Commissioners 

and they are the ones who you report to. Do you have 

personal relations with them outside of that?

A. No.

Q. What about any Former Commissioners?

A. No. I mean, they will call me if they need 

something related to the City Clerk's Office. No 

personal relationship, but definitely still a 

professional. If they need legislation, if they need 

minutes, something along those lines, you know, previous 

City Commissioners can contact me, just like anyone else 

from the public, to make a public records request. 

Q. Do you see them regularly, when you're at work 

at City Hall?

A. No. 

Q. Are they often elsewhere?

A. The Commissioners? Yes.

Q. Do you see them outside of the context of an 

organized meeting that's being held?

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A. Very rarely.

Q. What about Mayor Suarez?

A. I do not see him.

Q. Have you met him before?

A. Well, I've met him, but, I mean, it's been a 

while since we have actually interacted.

Q. Does he have any interaction with your role as 

the City Clerk?

A. Well, the Mayor can veto City Commission 

legislation. So, essentially, I do work with the 

Mayor's Office to ensure that we take up what's known as 

a Mayor Signature Report. So any legislation that's 

subject to veto by the Mayor, we put it in a report. 

We'll essentially -- we take it to his chief of staff, 

not to the Mayor personally, but essentially we do have 

a relationship with the Mayor's Office when it comes to 

his Mayor veto authority. 

Q. Do you know Miguel De Grandy?

A. Yes.

Q. How long have you known him?

A. I would say, since I became City Clerk, 2013, 

when he helped us with a redistricting back then.

Q. Do you have a relationship with him, outside of 

the context of redistricting?

A. No.

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Q. How would you describe your relationship with 

him over the years?

A. Just professional. If he needed something from 

the Clerk's Office, again, related to legislation or 

minutes or so forth or public notices, that was the 

extent of it. 

Q. Are you the person he would come to if he needs 

information in his work consulting for the City to do 

the maps? 

A. No, not to do the maps, but if he needed, 

maybe, historical information, such as the legislation 

that the Commission passed when it came to the 

redistricting back in 2013, the maps that were produced. 

I don't produce any maps. That's usually done by -- I 

don't know, I think it's done by the GIS Department, but 

I'm not sure who, but I would provide him more with 

historical documents.

Q. Are there other departments within the City of 

Miami government that you interact with on a day-to-day 

basis?

A. On a day-to-day basis? Yes.

Q. What's the main other -- outside of the City 

Clerk's Office, what is the main other organization you 

work with in the City of Miami?

A. It really depends on, day-to-day, what we're 

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working on. It could be someone who needs an agreement 

attested from the Department of Real Estate and Asset 

Management. It could be the City Attorney's Office that 

needs us to unlock a file, so they can make some kind of 

change, maybe to a piece of legislation that had to do 

with amendments. It could come from the Hearing Board's 

Office, when they're sending us information for -- a 

public notice pertaining to a lower board. It really 

just changes every day.

Q. Do you work at all with staff for the 

individual Commissioners?

A. Yes.

Q. Are they considered like colleagues that you 

work with on a regular basis?

A. Colleagues, yes. Not in a daily basis. Again, 

only when they need something from the Clerk's Office.

Q. Okay. Do you know Stephen Cody?

A. Yes. Yes. I had worked with him, with Mr. De 

Grandy, back in 2013, and then for this latest 

redistricting.

Q. How has it been working with him, in your 

experience?

A. We've always had a professional relationship.

Q. And do you know Miami-Dade County Supervisor of 

Election Christina White?

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A. Yes.

Q. How long have you known her?

A. Since, at the very least, 2013. 

Q. Is that when she began as the -- 

A. I don't remember when -- 

Q. That's when you became the Clerk?

A. Yes. 

Q. Okay. Is she the only Supervisor of Elections 

you've worked with? 

A. I believe so. I remember -- so, I apologize, I 

think it was Penny, but I think I worked with her more 

as an Assistant City Clerk, if I remember correctly. 

That's going way far back. I'm sorry, I don't remember 

her actual -- her official name, but I just remember 

Penny, and then primarily working with Christina.

Q. Do you know when Christina White's term is up 

as Supervisor of Elections?

A. Well, it's my understanding that there's going 

to be a requirement that the Sheriff's position -- well, 

I guess -- I was going to say, Sheriff -- the Sheriff's 

position, the Supervisor of Elections, will now be 

elected, and I think that's starting in 2024, I believe.

Q. So that would be on the Fall 2024 election?

A. It's my understanding. 

Q. But that's run by the County?

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A. Correct.

Q. Do you have any role in how the County runs 

their elections, outside of the City -- 

A. No.

Q. Do you know -- I'm going to go through a list 

of the Plaintiffs in this case and just ask you if you 

know them. Do you Daniela Pierre?

A. The name doesn't sound familiar, but if I saw 

the face, it's possible. I'm sorry, I didn't mean -- 

you see a lot of people in the City.

Q. No, I know. I mean, if you don't them 

personally, that's what I am trying to find out.

A. Oh, okay, personally. Got it.

Q. What about Harold Ford?

A. No. 

Q. Caroline Donaldson? 

A. No.

Q. The Revered Nathaniel Robinson? 

A. No. I mean, he's been at City Commission 

meetings.

Q. You recognize him from the Commission? 

A. Yes.

Q. But you don't have an outside relationship with 

him?

A. No. 

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Q. What about Clarice Cooper?

A. No.

Q. What about Steven Miro? 

A. I know him, from when he worked for 

Commissioner Carollo, in his professional capacity, but 

not outside of work, no.

Q. Yanelis Valdes?

A. No.

Q. Jared Johnson?

A. No. 

Q. Rebecca Pelham? 

A. No.

Q. Alexander Contreras? 

A. No.

Q. So let's go to Topic 1. 

A. Okay.

Q. Can you read Topic 1 off of Plaintiffs' Exhibit 

Number 7?

A. "The administration of City of Miami elections, 

including the cost and burden of holding special 

elections." 

Q. So how often does the City of Miami hold 

elections?

A. Well, ours is on an odd year election cycle 

every two years.

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Q. Do you ever hold even year elections?

A. Only unless it's a special election, and before 

-- I just want to make sure, so we're just kind of 

speaking from the same page, when you talk about a 

special election versus a general election, and just 

bear with me, so I don't bore you too much, but pursuant 

to the Charter, when there's a vacancy for the Office of 

the Mayor or a City Commissioner, the Commission has two 

options. One, they can either appoint or they can hold 

a special election. 

A special election is different from our 

regularly scheduled general municipal elections, because 

a special election has a shorter qualifying period, five 

days, and there's no runoff. 

And so, with our general municipal elections, 

when they're held, you know, every two years, on the odd 

year election cycle, there's almost a three-week 

qualifying period, and then there's a runoff. So, in a 

special election, it's a plurality vote, but in a 

general election, you have to get fifty percent plus 

one. If you don't, then it goes to a runoff. 

So I just want to kind of make sure we're on 

the same page, when we start talking about special 

versus general municipal elections, so that, you know, 

you understand that there is a difference, at least when 

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it comes to the Charter, in that particular scenario. 

There is a difference between the type of election.

Q. For a general election, are they always held in 

November? 

A. Of the odd year, yes.

Q. Is there a primary or other preliminary 

election before that?

A. We do not have a primary.

Q. So everyone runs, and, then, depending on if 

one person gets a majority, they get the seat, and if 

there's two, then they run in a runoff afterwards? 

A. Yes.

Q. Is the runoff considered part of the general 

election? 

A. Yes. 

Q. It's not like -- like you said before, it's not 

considered a special election? 

A. No. 

Q. And a special election -- in order to hold a 

special election, does the City Commission have to 

declare it? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Is it done through a Resolution?

A. Yes.

Q. How often does that happen, would you say?

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A. Well, from the standpoint of when there has 

been a vacancy, not very often. Recently, you know, 

with the District 2 Commissioner, that was something 

unique, because when the District 5 Commissioner had 

vacated his seat, when he was elected as County 

Commissioner -- a Miami-Dade County Commissioner, the 

Commission decided to appoint, and so we didn't have to 

have a special election for that vacancy, but for the 

District 2 vacancy, they decided that they didn't want 

to make an appointment, so they scheduled a special 

election, and so that was the most recent special 

election we've had, which was held in February of this 

year.

Q. Do you remember when the previous special 

election, before that one, was held?

A. It would have been over a decade ago, I'm 

assuming, because I'm trying to -- I think it would have 

been with Commissioner Spence-Jones, but that would have 

been around, wow, 2007, maybe. 2007, I'm thinking. 

It's been a while. I'm sorry, so I just don't remember 

the exact year. 

Q. Would you say that it's a rare occurrence to 

hold a special election in Miami for the City?

A. Yes. For a vacancy, yes. Now, we do have 

special elections for ballot questions, but that doesn't 

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involve, you know, a qualifying period, there isn't a 

vote for an actual candidate to fill, you know, a City 

Commission seat, so that is something entirely 

different, but we do have special elections for Charter 

amendment -- for any kind of ballot question.

Q. Do you ever have the Charter amendment or 

ballot questions on the regular general election?

A. Yes. For a City of Miami odd year election 

cycle, yes.

Q. So how do you determine whether the ballot 

initiative would be on the regular general election 

ballot versus on a special election ballot?

A. Well, again, the special election ballot is 

something entirely different, you know, from the 

standpoint of the purpose that it's being called, and so 

let's focus on the general municipal election. You can 

have a ballot question tied in with that, simply because 

it's an election that you have already scheduled, and 

so -- essentially, there's nothing, I guess you're 

saying, preventing you from having a ballot question on 

a general municipal election? I'm just trying to 

understand the question a little better. Maybe I'm 

not -- 

Q. Is there a regular schedule -- for example, 

let's say that every ballot initiative that needs to go 

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on a ballot gets held for the next general election, or 

is it, let's say, oh, we don't want to wait six months, 

let's go ahead and have the election now? How is 

that -- 

A. Oh, I don't believe we could call a special 

election just for a ballot question.

Q. So when would there be a special election for a 

ballot question?

A. It would be held either during our normal 

election year -- you know, odd year election year cycle 

in November or we would try and piggyback off of the 

County during an even year election. 

Sorry, is that making sense? I apologize.

Q. I'm curious -- I'm trying to figure out, how is 

the choice made, whether or not to just be part of the 

regular general election versus making a special 

election for the ballot question. 

A. We could, essentially, work, I think, with the 

Elections Department to request that. If we wanted to 

have a City-wide special election for a ballot question, 

we would need to work with the Elections Department, to 

see if they would be able to assist us with a City-wide, 

you know, special election, just for the ballot 

question. 

I think I understand it a little bit better 

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now. So, I think, yeah, we would work with the County. 

If we wanted to have a stand-alone election for a ballot 

question, then we would need to work with the County to 

ensure that they could assist us with a City-wide 

election for that ballot question. 

Q. Are there any ballot questions on the November 

2023 ballot this year?

A. No. 

Q. Is it too late for them to be added? 

A. Yes.

Q. Is there a deadline for when you would have to 

have a ballot question presented in order to get on the 

regular election ballot? 

A. Yes. The County usually provides us with those 

deadlines and that's what we work with.

Q. The deadline is set by the County?

A. Yes.

Q. Does the City have any influence, like if you 

said, "Hey, we need an extra week, so push this back"? 

A. Potentially. It just depends on, you know, the 

length of the ballot, maybe how many elections that they 

have going on at the same time, because I know they 

provide election services to all municipalities in 

Miami-Dade County, but I think we could probably get a 

little extra time, but they do have their own 

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requirements when it comes to being able to code the 

ballot, to be able to draft the ballot and then to be 

able to get it to the printers, to ensure that, you 

know, we meet their deadlines.

Q. What was the deadline for this year for that?

A. I don't remember, off the top of my head.

Q. Was there any plans to have ballot initiatives 

this year that didn't go through?

A. No, there was no -- there were no ballot 

questions planned for this November election.

Q. Did you do any work related to ballot 

initiative elections during this calendar year?

A. During this calendar year, no.

Q. What about 2022?

A. I do not remember any in 2022, no. 

Q. Are you aware of any that are in the works for 

the future?

A. Not at this time, no.

Q. So, going back to the election, not the ballet 

initiatives, but individual representative elections, 

how many elected positions are in the City of Miami?

A. Six.

Q. Is that the five Commission seats, plus the 

Mayor?

A. Yes.

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Q. Are there any other seats that are elected 

within the City of Miami government?

A. Elected by the voters? 

Q. Yes. 

A. I'm only aware of the six.

Q. Is there any plans, that you're aware of, to 

add additional seats? Like, for example, we talked 

about the Supervisor of Elections and the Sheriff 

switching over for the County. Is there any similar 

plans in the City to add additional elective seats?

A. I'm not aware of any.

Q. Are there term limits for the number of terms 

you can serve?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that true, both, for Mayor and Commissioner? 

A. Yes. 

Q. What are those term limits?

A. Two consecutive four-year terms. 

Q. What if you serve for four years, take four 

years off, and then run again, does that still qualify 

for term limits or could you serve two consecutive years 

after?

A. It's my understanding you can serve two 

conservative years after, as long as you have that gap. 

That's my understanding.

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Q. So, under your understanding, one person could 

hold two consecutive seats, take four years off, then 

run and hold two more consecutive four-year seats and 

then take four years off?

A. My apologies, they serve two consecutive terms, 

they take four years off, and then they run again? Yes, 

that's would be my understanding.

Q. So it's only you're prevented from having a 

third consecutive term? 

A. That is my understanding, yes.

Q. Are there any rules related to, if someone 

joins in the middle of a term, how they count that?

A. It's my understanding it's not applied -- it's 

not a full consecutive term. So we'll take Commissioner 

Reyes, Commissioner Manolo Reyes. I can't remember when 

he -- it was a special election, and this was years ago, 

to fill a vacant seat, and he was able to serve two 

years of Mayor Suarez's four-year term. Those two years 

were not considered a four-year term, and so he gets to 

serve two consecutive four-year terms after that two 

years, if that's making sense.

Q. Is that the current status for Commissioner 

Reyes? The current consecutive terms that he's on right 

now are the terms where he started replacing Mayor 

Suarez?

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A. So he served two years of the remaining 

four-year term of Commissioner Suarez, at the time, 

before he was elected Mayor, and then he served four 

years. He served one consecutive term. Now he's up for 

re-election for his final -- his second consecutive 

term. So he will be term limited out in 2027. 

Q. What about Commissioner Carollo, what is his 

status, as far as terms and term limits? 

A. He will be term limited in 2025. That will be 

two full four-year consecutive terms.

Q. And what about Commissioner Sabina Covo of 

District 2? 

A. Well, she gets two four-year consecutive terms, 

because the special election that she was elected in 

allowed her to serve just the remaining term of 

Commissioner Russell's four-year term. So she will be 

able to serve for two consecutive four-year terms.

Q. And what is the status of Commissioner King?

A. She's currently serving her first term. So she 

would be allowed to serve another four-year consecutive 

term.

Q. And she's not up for election this year; is 

that correct?

A. No.

Q. So she's halfway through her first term?

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A. Yes. Yes.

Q. Are you aware if the City of Miami has 

considered amending the Charter to change the length of 

the term?

A. I'm not aware.

Q. Or to add -- you know, let's say, repeal the 

term limits or make it so you can serve longer periods 

of time?

A. I'm not aware, no.

Q. Have you ever had any conversations within the 

City of Miami about the possibility of that?

A. No.

Q. Has the City of Miami ever considered switching 

from odd number years to even number years for 

elections? 

A. Well over a decade ago, there was a discussion, 

but it didn't move beyond just a discussion, and I 

wasn't the City Clerk at the time. I just remember 

that, because I believe I was Assistant City Clerk at 

the time.

Q. Do you know why it didn't move forward?

A. I don't remember, no.

Q. Are you aware of any analyses of the benefits 

comparatively between having odd and even year 

elections?

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A. I believe there was some information associated 

with the discussion, like a backup document, but I don't 

remember the specifics.

Q. Do you have a personal view?

A. I do not, no. That's up to the voters.

Q. Does it ever cause issues, where, like in your 

job, you say, maybe it would be easier if this was on an 

even number year, instead of odd number year?

A. Again, that's the will of the Commission and 

it's up to the voters to decide what type of election 

cycle they'd like for us to have.

Q. So the law tells you what the election 

structure is and then you execute it?

A. Yes.

Q. Have you ever had any issues with that or like 

situations -- 

A. No. 

Q. -- where you say, "We can't do this"?

A. No, again, because I think we've got the best 

elections department in the entire state.

Q. Does the City ever hold recall elections?

A. Well, we've never held a recall election. I 

know that a recall was initiated -- I can't remember 

when -- maybe three years ago, but it didn't meet the 

threshold needed to move to an actual recall election.

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Q. What is that threshold?

A. I'd have to look at the Charter. I don't 

remember off the top of my head. It's kind of detailed.

Q. Is it something that you deal with on any 

frequency?

A. No.

Q. If a recall was actually organized and 

happened, was successful, would that be a surprise?

A. No. I mean, if they were able to meet the 

threshold in the period to hold a recall election, then 

that's what we would do.

Q. Are you aware of the City evaluating the 

possibility of any recall elections over recent years?

A. No.

Q. Has anyone from the public ever communicated to 

the City -- you know, threatened to organize a recall, 

if you don't, say, support some position in the 

government?

A. Not that I'm aware of.

Q. Would you classify the threat of a recall as a, 

you know, political tactic that is used in the City, 

that's relevant to what happens in the City?

A. I think it's part of a democracy. 

Q. But it's not one that is like actively going on 

in the City of Miami?

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A. No.

Q. And going back to like the Charter amendments, 

the non-candidate ballots, can you describe the process 

for how a Charter amendment gets on the ballot?

A. Well, first, we need to request permission from 

the County, from the Miami-Dade County Elections 

Department, if we could have an election, and it would 

be called a special election, to hold a City-wide -- a 

City-wide special election for a Charter amendment 

question or a ballot question. Once we get approval 

from the Supervisor of Elections, then the Commission 

essentially would pass legislation indicating what the 

question entails, the language that makes up the 

question, and essentially assigning a date for that 

special election.

Q. When you testified just a moment ago, you said 

that the County Supervisor of Elections approves it. 

A. Well, no, the date.

Q. The date?

A. Only the date, not the legislation.

Q. What triggers going to the County Supervisor of 

Elections to ask for the date?

A. I believe it's a State Statute. I don't 

remember the exact State Statute, but municipalities 

need to request from the Supervisor of Elections 

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permission to hold a special election that's not -- you 

know, it's not piggybacking off of their own election.

Q. Does the City Commission pass through 

Resolution potential ballot initiatives on their own? 

Like they say, "We want to put this on the ballot, we're 

going to pass this," and then put it forward?

A. No. I always ask the Supervisor of Elections 

first, to have that approval.

Q. Do you know where the initiative comes from in 

the beginning? Let's say no one has heard anything 

about a potential ballot initiative. Who is the first 

potential step or person that brings it up?

A. I believe they would -- they would have a 

discussion item at a City Commission meeting, to see if 

there is the will to have a ballot question presented to 

the voters, and, then, the Commission would then direct 

the City Attorney to draft that ballot question. Then 

it would have to come back to the Commission for their 

approval.

Q. Do the voters have the ability to petition for 

that on their own, separate from the Commission?

A. Yes. It's in the Charter, and I just don't 

remember it verbatim.

Q. Would you say it's more common for the City 

Commission to instigate the ballot initiative or for the 

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public to petition the process to do that?

A. The City Commission.

Q. How much space does it take on a ballot to put 

a ballot initiative?

A. I don't know how much space. Maybe an eighth 

of a page, not -- you know, it depends on the length, I 

guess, of the question. It could be -- not a quarter 

page, but -- the way that the ballot is set up, there's 

two columns. So you're not taking up like a full page 

or a half a page. It's more like, we'll say, a quarter 

of a page.

Q. Are you involved in the placement of the City's 

ballot questions on the ballot?

A. No. That's done by the Elections Department. 

Basically, they will code it. They format it. They do 

everything that they need to ensure that the ballot 

meets the specifications of State Statute, and, you 

know, that they can use it with their voting equipment.

Q. Are you responsible for presenting the 

information to the County that they use to then put the 

ballot through?

A. Yes.

Q. That is your responsibility? 

A. Yes.

Q. Is that also true for the candidate elections?

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A. Yes. I provide the list of candidates to the 

County Elections Department.

Q. Is the list of the candidates and the list of 

ballot initiatives done separately? 

A. No. Basically, the candidates will come first, 

and then the questions would come afterward. And I 

believe that's pursuant to State Statute or maybe the 

Florida Administrative Code, one or the other, but 

candidates always come first.

Q. Do you present all of that information at the 

time to the County? Do you say, "Here's what we need on 

this ballot, here's everything"?

A. Not necessarily at one time. We may have the 

ballot question first, so that could be sent to them, so 

that they know exactly -- so they can start the 

translation, as well. My apologies, the Elections 

Department has their own in-house Spanish and Creole 

interpreters. So it allows them to start working on the 

translation, and I guess, it's an idea as to how they 

may need to format the ballot, and, then, because our 

qualifying period is so late within the elections 

process, they may get the ballot question first and we 

send them the candidates later. 

Q. So would you say that the practice you have is 

to send something over when it's ready for them to 

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consider?

A. Yes.

Q. And the earlier, the better?

A. Yes.

Q. Does the City do anything related to the 

translations into Spanish or Creole?

A. No. We leave that to the Elections Department.

Q. Is all of the City business done in English?

A. City business? 

Q. I'm sorry, I'll withdraw that. 

The information related to elections, such as 

the names of the candidates and the text of the ballot 

initiatives or Charter amendments, are those all 

presented in English only?

A. No, English, Spanish and Haitian Creole.

Q. That's on the ballot?

A. Yes.

Q. What does the City present to the County?

A. Oh, I'm sorry. My apologies. English.

Q. When the City is considering language for a 

ballot initiative, do they consider how it will appear 

in the translated languages before they come up with the 

final language? 

A. I'm not involved in that part of the process, 

so I don't know.

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Q. Do you have any role in the translation into 

other languages?

A. No. 

Q. That's all done by the County?

A. Yes.

Q. Has there ever been additional languages to the 

ballot?

A. No.

Q. Or removing languages from the ballot?

A. No. 

Q. Is that any aspect of your job?

A. No. If someone wanted to have an additional 

language, and if that's what was required, then that's 

what we'd do.

Q. Is there a specific amount of space that the 

City has access to on the County's ballot?

A. No. I think we would just -- if it were to 

move to a second page -- let's say, a hypothetical, 

where the page -- where the ballot is one page, and, 

then, because of our ballot question, it moves us into 

two pages, we would just have to pay for the extra cost 

associated with the ballot -- 

Q. How is the cost -- 

A. -- for the length of the ballot, I apologize.

Q. How is that cost determined? 

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A. By the Elections Department.

Q. Does the standard agreement say, oh, if it's 

one page, it's $10, and if it's two pages, it's $20?

A. You know, there's no standard agreement as to 

like what the price is. I think it has a lot to do with 

how much it takes up on the second page, if there's more 

translation required. So I think there are many 

different variables, I think, that go into the overall 

cost.

Q. At what point is the cost for a specific ballot 

determined?

A. That's done by the Elections Department. We 

usually will get an estimate before the election, and 

then we'll get a final invoice afterwards.

Q. Is there ever any discussion within the City of 

Miami that we need to limit the amount of things we put 

on the ballot because we don't want to go over a certain 

budget price?

A. No.

Q. Is there any concern about the cost of how much 

it will be, on the ballot, when you're determining what 

goes on the ballot? 

A. That would be up to the Commissioners. So I'm 

not involved in that part of the discussion. I would 

let them know, if we already have a full page, and this 

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could be leading to a second page, you know, we would 

certainly, you know, share that information with them, 

and it would be up to them to decide whether or not the 

extra cost would be something that they'd want to incur.

Q. Has anyone within the City ever asked you to 

reduce the cost of elections? 

A. No.

Q. Do you think that would be necessary? 

A. Again, that's the will of the Commission.

Q. Do you think that the City gets a good deal on 

the prices it pays to the County on the elections?

A. Pennies on the dollar.

Q. Are there any other options, other than going 

through the County?

A. I do not believe so.

Q. Is it statutorily required that the City run 

their elections through the County?

A. No. It's just that they are the most 

professional, the most efficient. They have the 

equipment, the resources, the personnel, the logistics. 

I just couldn't imagine not, you know, using them for an 

election.

Q. Has the City ever discussed running its own 

elections separately?

A. No.

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Q. Do you know if they've done that in the past?

A. To the best of my knowledge, no.

Q. Do you think it would be a good idea to do 

that?

A. No.

Q. Has the County ever told you they don't want to 

do the City elections?

A. They've never told us, no, but, depending on 

the election year -- so if we were doing something in an 

even year election cycle, they would most likely want us 

to piggyback off of the already scheduled elections. 

There's one in March -- like let's just take 2024. 

There's one in March. There's one in August. There's 

one in November. I do not believe they would want us to 

have a stand-alone special election, when there's 

already three elections scheduled for next year. 

MS. MCNAMARA: Okay. Do we want to take a 

break? 

MR. JOHNSON: Sure. 

(Short recess taken.)

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. So why are there three elections scheduled for 

next year with the County?

A. You know, again, those aren't my elections, so 

I'm assuming it's pursuant to State Statute and Federal 

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Law.

Q. Does it vary year to year? Are you aware of 

how the County sets up its election timelines?

A. No, I'm not.

Q. So how does the City prepare to hold an 

election? Like what is the beginning of the process for 

the general election?

A. So we will request an estimate from the 

Elections Department well in advance -- most likely, a 

year in advance, so we can ensure that it's a part of 

our budget for that upcoming fiscal year. So I'll have 

the cost associated with the election. And, then, 

essentially -- case in point, we'll take 2023, the 

Commission, around April, will pass a Resolution 

basically memorializing that we're having a general 

municipal election for whatever the offices are, and 

that's something that I transmit to the Miami-Dade 

County Elections Department.

Q. If that process didn't happen, would there not 

be a general municipal election next year?

A. I don't know the answer to that question. I 

think that would have to be the City Attorney's Office, 

to decide, you know, whether or not the election could 

be held.

Q. Has there been a planned odd number year when 

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you thought there would be a general municipal election 

and it didn't happen?

A. No. We've always had our elections when they 

were supposed to be scheduled.

Q. How often are there runoffs?

A. It really varies. Some elections -- I don't 

think we had -- I don't think we had a runoff in 2020. 

I don't remember. But it varies. It varies. I think, 

primarily, depending on the number of candidates on the 

ballot. I think that's the driver.

Q. Does holding a runoff increase the cost of the 

election?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you pay separately for the runoff 

afterwards?

A. The County Elections Department will include it 

all in the final invoice.

Q. How often do they invoice?

A. Just after the election cycle.

Q. So, it's like, they don't say, you know, like 

every month you pay a certain amount of money spread 

out -- 

A. No.

Q. It's not like you have a subscription? 

A. No. 

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Q. It's a matter of, the election is run, and, 

then, at the end of the election cycle, they say, this 

how much it cost?

A. Yes.

Q. And they include the runoff cost with the 

general election cost?

A. Yes. If I remember correctly, yes.

Q. Do they break it down?

A. They do. They have it broken down in certain 

categories, such as when it comes to the personnel -- 

personnel associated with the polling locations, when it 

comes to early voting, when it comes to their own 

election staff that's being used to assist, when it 

comes to logistics. They have to either have their own 

trucks or rent trucks to take the voting equipment to 

the various polling locations. 

There is a cost associated with the coding of 

the ballot, printing of the ballot. There's a cost 

associated with vote by mail, when it comes to postage 

that the City pays. So it's broken down. 

Q. Who is responsible for overseeing that process 

on the City's side, as far as paying the invoices and 

reviewing them?

A. The Finance Department.

Q. Do they seek input from you?

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A. No. We send them the invoice and it's simply 

paid.

Q. Is there ever any negotiation, about the amount 

on the invoice, after it's been sent?

A. No. I think we're all very aware that we're 

getting the better end of the deal. I'm just being 

honest.

Q. Does the County ever ask, hey, can we increase 

the price?

A. Surprisingly not.

Q. We don't want to give them any ideas, if they 

read this transcript and say, wait a minute. 

When is the money allocated in the budget for 

an election?

A. It's usually done for that -- well, from what I 

understand, it's usually done for that fiscal year. So 

we recently passed the budget, on October 1st -- well, 

September 28th, but it goes into effect October 1st, and 

that has the built-in estimated cost, you know, for the 

November election. 

Q. Does it ever diverge significantly from the 

budgeted cost?

A. No.

Q. Is it a significant line item, that you're 

aware of, within the budget?

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A. It's my understanding, and the CFO can correct 

me if I'm wrong, but I think we have a billion dollar 

budget, so I don't think it's that much overall.

Q. Who would you say is the person within the City 

who is responsible for overseeing the City's elections? 

A. It would be the City Clerk, me.

Q. That's you?

A. Yes.

Q. Is there anyone else, who you would say is also 

responsible, beyond you?

A. No. I am essentially the person who conducts 

and certifies the election.

Q. Do you consult with the City Manager's Office 

on that?

A. Regarding the election? 

Q. Yes. 

A. If I need assistance with polling locations or 

early voting sites or parking, but not when it comes to 

the actual election itself, if you know what I mean, 

from the standpoint of like qualifying, from what we 

send to the Elections Department as it relates to the 

ballot, but there may be a supporting role, but more, 

again, from the sense of what we may need for a 

particular location, if we need some assistance with 

parking, things like that.

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Q. Do the individual Commissioners or the 

Commission as a body have a role in the election? Do 

you interact with them, as far as that?

A. Other than just the passage of the Resolution, 

no.

Q. What about the City Attorney's Office?

A. Well, they assist us with the drafting of the 

legislation to make sure that it's legally sufficient, 

and if we have any questions, I guess, regarding the 

State Statute or something, we would ask the City 

Attorney's Office, but that's only if we need them to 

answer certain questions.

Q. So your department controls the process?

A. Yes.

Q. Are you involved in the implementation of a new 

map after redistricting?

A. The implementation? No. And, I guess, what I 

mean by that is that, if we're talking about 

implementation from the standpoint of like the zoning 

program that the City uses, and any other resources, 

like programs and so forth, no, that would be a 

different department. I'm simply really just a 

repository for the legislation that would have adopted 

the redistricting and the maps associated with that 

legislation. I would be the repository for that 

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information. 

Q. Does it matter to you, for your job, what the 

map actually looks like?

A. No. 

Q. Are you involved in precincting? 

A. No. 

Q. Do you get that information from others within 

the City?

A. No.

Q. Does it come from the County?

A. Yes.

Q. Does the City have any influence on how 

reprecincting done?

A. No. 

Q. Are there additional costs charged by the 

County related to implementing the new map?

A. Any costs to implement the new map? I mean, 

they send out the voter registration cards. They send 

out the updated voter registration cards. They take 

care of that cost. I don't know of any cost that the 

City incurs, when it comes to the implementation of the 

new map. Again, talking about the voter registration 

cards, they have to update their voter information 

systems, but they don't charge us for that.

Q. So, like you said, the County does not charge 

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the City for the costs of being prepared to run 

elections with the new map?

A. No.

Q. The only cost is related to the ballot?

A. Yes.

Q. Are you aware of requirements of reprecincting, 

like whether they have to do it or not -- 

A. Yeah, I'm not familiar with that. No.

Q. Would you say that you have no involvement in 

the precinct level of work?

A. Yes.

Q. Has anyone ever suggested that you should be 

involved in that?

A. No.

Q. Do you want to be involved in that?

A. No.

Q. Is there a time line for when the map gets put 

into place, as opposed to when you submit the actual 

ballot contents?

MR. JOHNSON: Objection to form.

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. You can answer. It's a pretty weird question, 

but -- 

A. So if you could repeat the question, I'm sorry.

Q. Yeah. I'll pull it back. 

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What is the time line for beginning to be able 

to send materials to the County for an upcoming 

election?

A. That's determined by the Elections 

Department -- they would let us know -- because it takes 

them time to re-tool their systems, so that whatever the 

new map entails, they have the right voter information 

for those voters. So I think they try and give us a 

deadline as to when something of that nature should be 

done, so that they have enough time to get everything in 

place, so that we can, you know, carry out our election 

like we normally would.

Q. Does that deadline change year to year or 

election to election?

A. When it comes to a new map, we only do that 

every ten years, so it's not very common.

Q. Is there like, let's say, August 1st, for a 

November election -- is there a general time, like, say, 

August 1st or September 1st or something, that is kind 

of the known target of this is the point in which 

everything needs to be finalized?

A. The Miami-Dade Elections Department will 

communicate that to us -- to the City, I'm sorry.

Q. At the beginning of the calendar year, let's 

say, on January 1st, 2023, do you have a sense of when 

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the County will communicate that the deadline -- when 

the deadline is? 

MR. JOHNSON: Objection, predicate.

THE WITNESS: Deadline for what, for a 

ballot question or election? 

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. What is the deadline this year to put materials 

on the November 2023 election ballot?

A. They gave us a deadline. I just don't remember 

what the date was. But the Supervisor of Elections did 

give us that deadline that we would need to meet, when 

it came to placing a ballot question on our general 

municipal election. I just don't remember the exact 

date.

Q. Do you know when they gave you the deadline?

A. Oh, yes, earlier in the year.

Q. Is it the first quarter of the year?

A. I don't remember. I know it was very early on, 

though. We had plenty of advanced notice as to when.

Q. Are there other years in which you felt you did 

not have plenty of advance notice?

A. No. They always give us advance notice.

Q. Do you ever have any concerns that you're 

running out of time to prepare the materials that you 

need to send to the County for the election?

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A. I've never had that issue, no.

Q. Does that vary when it's a special election?

A. So are we talking -- and my apologies -- are we 

talking about a special election, where we're 

piggybacking off of our general municipal election or 

piggybacking off of maybe a County-wide election? I've 

never had time constraints when it has involved a ballot 

question being placed on, whether it's our election or 

piggybacking off of a County-wide election.

Q. Do you recall there was a special election held 

earlier this year for District 2?

A. Right.

Q. What was the time line that was available for 

preparing the materials for the ballot for that special 

election?

A. See, in that particular case, it's very unique, 

I don't think we would have enough time to place a 

ballot question on a special election to fill a vacancy, 

whether it's for the Mayor or City Commission, simply 

because, within ten days of the vacancy occurring for 

the Mayor -- for any elected official, within ten days, 

the Commission either appoints or schedules a special 

election. And, then, after a five-day qualifying 

period, which immediately follows the ten-day period to 

appoint or schedule the special election, you have to 

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have that election within the 38th or 45th day, after 

the fifth day of the qualifying. So I do not believe 

there would be enough time to place a ballot question, 

on a special election, where you're filling a vacancy 

for an elected office.

Q. And how much time do you have to put the names 

of the candidates who are up for the special election 

positions?

A. As soon as the qualifying period is over, it 

has to go to the Elections Department.

Q. Does the City have any issues complying with 

that timing?

A. No. 

Q. Was it a challange this year to comply with 

that timing on that election?

A. No.

Q. How much does it cost the City to run a general 

municipal election?

A. Around 900,000.

Q. Is that an average amount?

A. It would be an average.

Q. Does it vary significantly?

A. No. And that's for City-wide.

Q. And City-wide, does that mean the mayorial 

election is going on?

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A. Yes.

Q. Setting aside the ballot questions, just for 

the candidates, are there any City-wide elected 

positions other than the mayor?

A. No.

Q. All of the Commission positions, is it true 

that only the people who live in the districts that are 

up for election see those positions on their ballot?

A. Yes. So, again, let me make sure I understand. 

We have one election cycle where it's District 3, 5 and 

mayor, and, of course, that's City-wide. So someone who 

live in District 3 will get to vote for the Commissioner 

in District 3 and they get to vote for the mayor. But 

we have another election cycle, where it's 1, 2 and 4 -- 

Districts 1, 2 and 4, my apologies, for this election 

cycle. And so someone who lives in District 1 will only 

get to vote for that District 1 candidate. They won't 

get to vote for the District 2 or District 4 candidate.

Q. So someone who lives in District 3, will they 

have City lines on their ballot this Fall?

A. No, because District 3 is not up for election 

this year.

Q. How much does it cost to run a City-wide 

election, when the mayor election is not on the ballot, 

so on the 1, 2 and 4?

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A. It's around 600,000, five to six.

Q. So it's more expensive when the mayor is, also?

A. Yes, because it's City-wide.

Q. Is that because of the space it takes up on the 

ballot?

A. I think it's just because of the fact that you 

have a larger number of voters participating in an 

election. You have more polling locations, more 

ballots, more personnel is needed. So it's City-wide. 

You're not just focusing on three districts, so the cost 

increases.

Q. Can you list the costs that factor into -- 

let's pull that back. 

What are the factors that determine the cost of 

the election, for a general municipal election?

A. There are a number of costs. Again, we could 

start with personnel alone, from the Elections 

Department. You need people to man the polling 

locations. You have early voting sites. You have to -- 

some locations, I think, the Elections Department has to 

potentially rent. Then you're talking about the 

voting -- us using their personnel, when it comes to 

logic and accuracy tests, when it comes to doing the 

tabulation, when it comes to using their trucks, you 

know, logistically, to get the voting machines out to 

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the various precincts and polling locations. I mean, 

you're increasing the number of precincts alone for a 

City-wide significantly. And that's just some of the 

costs. There are numerous costs involved. It's the 

same cost, but just on a larger scale.

Q. Are there any fixed costs that you have to pay, 

regardless of the size or scope of the election? 

A. Yes. You know, the printing of the ballots, 

when it comes to vote by mail, postage on the ballots, 

when it comes to election personnel working at the 

precincts on election day, early voting and so forth, 

you still need to have the trucks to be able to get the 

equipment and resources to the various polling 

locations.

Q. What about if you're having a special election 

for just one seat, how much would that cost?

A. For District 2, it was around 220,000.

Q. Do you know what the cost was the previous time 

before that?

A. I do not.

Q. That was a decade ago, you said?

A. It was a while ago.

Q. Has there been any evaluation of potential 

costs if there had been a special election for District 

1 currently?

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A. No, because essentially we are just using the 

model that we just had with District 2. It would be 

very similar. We're anticipating the cost to be 

something similar.

Q. Does the cost vary depending on which district 

it is? Like is District 1 more expensive to run an 

election than District 2? 

A. It wouldn't be significant. If you have more 

voters, the cost goes up a little, bit because you have 

to print more ballots and so forth, but we're not 

talking a significant increase.

Q. So if you had a district -- setting aside what 

the current districts are, but in the previous cycle, 

when we went into redistricting, District 2 had more 

population than the other districts. So does that mean 

that it would cost more to run an election in District 

2, if it had more people in the population?

A. It would cost more, but, again, it wouldn't be 

a significant increase.

Q. Do you have a sense of how much the 

difference -- you said $900,000 is an entire City 

municipal election. How much of that would be the 

difference of how many ballots are being sent out to 

different districts?

A. I don't have a sense of what it would cost, but 

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I know there wouldn't be a significant increase. I just 

don't know what the exact amount would be or even an 

estimate, but it wouldn't be a significant increase.

Q. How much do you consider a significant increase 

to be? 

A. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

Q. So if it costs $50,000 more, would that be a 

significant increase?

A. No, I do not believe so.

Q. But if it were $150,000 more?

A. Yes.

Q. Is it cheaper to hold a special election at a 

time that the County is already holding other elections?

A. Yes.

Q. How much cheaper is it?

A. My apologies for using this term, significantly 

lower. It would be significantly lower.

Q. So for the 2023 District 2 special election, 

was that the only election held for that special 

election on the County?

A. Well, that was a City of Miami election, so it 

was a stand-alone election for the City of Miami for the 

District 2 vacancy. So it wasn't like we were 

piggybacking off of the County's election. So, like in 

2024, and I'm just going to use that as an example, if 

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we were to piggyback off of the August primary or the 

November general, then the cost would be reduced 

significantly, because we don't have to have our own 

polling locations, we'd be using the County's polling 

locations, we'd be using their logistics, we'd be using 

basically all of their resources. What they would need 

to do is, print the ballot, code the ballot specifically 

for us, but that's not nearly as expensive as having to 

pay for the personnel and the trucks and everything else 

that goes on into having an actual election.

Q. Is it cheaper to hold a special election in an 

even numbered year or an odd numbered year?

A. So if you're talking about a special election 

of like a ballot question, it would probably be cheaper 

to have it on during our election cycle, simply because 

we're already having an election and you're only adding 

now that -- so, if you were to try and have a ballot 

question this November, the cost would increase 

significantly, because now you've gone from just three 

districts to City-wide. So if you were trying to do a 

ballot question in November, our cost would increase 

significantly, because now you're using every single 

precinct, every single polling location in the City of 

Miami for this November election, but if this was a 

mayoral election, where we're already having a Cide-wide 

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-- so, let's say, 2025 -- then the cost wouldn't be that 

significant, because we're already having a City-wide 

election, and the only thing that we're doing is just 

adding on to the ballot a ballot question or two or 

however many ballot questions you want to add. 

Same concept, to a certain extent, would apply 

to an even year election cycle. The County's already 

having an election. They're already using their 

resources for all of the polling locations within the 

City of Miami, as well as early voting and so forth. 

And so, really, what they would be doing is, they would 

be creating a ballot specifically for the City, so that 

we could add our ballot question, you know, to that 

election cycle, to their August or November election.

Q. When the County is running an even year 

election and the City has something to be in that 

election, do you pay for the cost of the polling places?

A. I think they give us a significant discount, if 

we do it all. I think, primarily, what we're paying for 

is, some of their personnel, some of the cost that they 

incur when it comes to the ballot, maybe some percentage 

of the personnel that are being used at the polling 

places, but, again, it's dramatically lower than what 

you would find in a stand-alone City of Miami city-wide 

election.

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Q. Other than what we've discussed so far, are 

there any other factors that influence the cost of a 

special election?

A. Yeah, we've spoken about them. 

Q. Can you describe the process for determining 

how to deal with the current vacancy in District 1?

A. Well, the City Commission has addressed the 

vacancy by simply allowing the November 7th election to 

be used to fill that vacancy.

Q. Is that also considered a special election, in 

addition to being the general municipal election for the 

coming term?

A. No. It's my understanding that the City 

Attorney's Office issued an opinion basically stating 

that the November -- since there was already an election 

scheduled for District 1 on November 7th, that will 

serve as the election for the vacant District 1 seat. 

So you had a full qualifying period, and if someone does 

not receive 50 percent plus one of the vote in the 

general, then there will be a runoff for that District 1 

seat.

Q. For a general municipal election, once the 

results have been certified, how long does it take for 

the winners to be sworn in?

A. Five days after I've received the official 

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election's results from the Supervisor of Elections.

Q. Does that change for a special election?

A. It would be the same, after I receive the 

official election results.

Q. So, hypothetically, let's say there was no 

general municipal election this year, and instead it was 

just the special for the District 1 -- they didn't do 

what they're doing. They were just, we're going to have 

a District 1 special election, and the vote was 

certified on November 10th, then the person who wins 

that election would take office on the 11th or whatever 

the next business day is?

A. Not even business day; calendar day. So, 

essentially, if I receive the official election results 

from the Supervisor of Election on the 10th, that 

candidate could be sworn in on the next day, on the 

11th. 

Q. But if it's the general municipal election, 

they have to wait five days?

A. Pursuant to the Charter.

Q. Is there any like practical difference in that 

outcome between those? Do you think it would make a 

difference, the four days delay?

A. I don't know the answer to that question. I 

just know that that's what I follow.

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Q. And so for this year, the election -- District 

1 is already up for re-election anyway, and so it would 

just be the same as if Former Commissioner Diaz de la 

Portilla had not been suspended?

A. Yes.

Q. For you, has the fact that he was suspended 

altered the cost of this election?

A. No. 

Q. Have you considered the possibility, if he were 

to win re-election and the Governor suspends him again, 

that then there would need to be a special election next 

year?

A. I think that would be up to the Commission, if 

they want to either appoint or schedule a special 

election. 

Q. But there has been no discussion of the 

possibility of needing to hold a special election next 

year for District 1, if whoever wins were to be 

re-suspended or otherwise lose?

A. Not as of this time. 

Q. Is there any discussion in the budgeting for 

this year that was just finished about saving money for 

special elections for 2024? 

A. No.

Q. Do you do that in other years?

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A. Again, when we know that there's an election 

coming up, yes, we do plan, we do get the estimate from 

the Elections Department. I believe I have an estimate 

for a District 1 stand-alone special election ready to 

go, and I'm not sure if I really shared that with the 

Budget Office, because we're simply just waiting to see 

what happens on November 7th.

Q. How much is that estimate?

A. It's going to be the same as what we pretty 

much spent for the District 2 special election earlier 

this year. 

Q. And what was that?

A. The County's cost is around 180,000 and then we 

have to throw in about another 40,000 for public notices 

associated with the election. So it comes to about 210, 

220. 

Q. Is there any cost if the City Commission 

appoints a replacement?

A. No.

Q. So if the City Commission appoints a new 

Commissioner, that doesn't impact your job at all, as 

far as elections?

A. An election wouldn't be required, so, no, it 

would not.

Q. In the budgeting process for your department, 

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do you set out any sort of reserve to have available for 

costs that come up, such as special elections?

A. Well, elections costs do not come out of my 

budget. It comes out of, I think -- well, I'll let the 

CFO explain, but I believe it comes out of an NDA 

account, non-departmental account, and so it's my 

understanding that that's where the funds are usually 

set aside for a City of Miami election. We provide the 

information to the Budget Office, and then the Budget 

Office essentially includes that, however it needs to be 

included, in the overall budget. 

Q. Would you say that the potential costs of 

special elections is a concern of your department, when 

you're planning the next year's -- 

A. No. Again, that's not a decision that I make. 

So it's up to the Commission to decide whether or not 

they want to have a special election and incur those 

costs.

Q. Are there any additional costs, that you can 

incur, beyond what's required, when you're running an 

election?

A. Any additional -- 

Q. I mean, just for example, if you wanted to 

upgrade to have leather seats, you pay extra. Are there 

any like perks that you can get to like, you know, we 

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want to have a fancier election?

A. No, not that I'm aware of.

Q. It's all fixed?

A. Yes, it's my understanding.

Q. Do you get the same treatment from the County 

as the other municipalities within the County does?

A. I wouldn't have any reason to believe 

otherwise. Again, I have no problems putting this on 

the record, the Miami-Dade Elections Department is hands 

down, without question, the best Elections Department in 

this State, and I would go as far as to say, in the 

country. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the 

work they do.

Q. Do you ever talk to City election 

administrators from, say, Hialeah or other cities in 

Miami-Dade County? 

A. No. 

Q. There's no discussion of comparing notes, how 

much are you paying?

A. No. We know that we're getting the better 

deal.

Q. Yeah, it all sounds right to me. 

MR. JOHNSON: Off the record for a second. 

(Discussion off the record.)

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

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Q. If you run a special election that's on an even 

numbered years that the County is doing especially -- is 

the only thing that they're doing, for the City, and, 

then, that election goes to a runoff, is there 

additional costs for the runoff for the County that they 

will charge you?

A. So if we were piggybacking off of the County's 

election, and then we have a runoff, then, yes, the City 

would incur costs associated with that runoff, because 

we're no longer piggybacking off the County. 

Q. Does the County ever have runoffs otherwise?

A. Well, their primary is their general election, 

and, then, their November election is essentially the 

general. That's my understanding of how that works. So 

maybe the best way to explain this is, they have their 

County Commissioners up for election in August, and if 

there's a runoff, that runoff would be held in November. 

That's my understanding of how the County Commission 

works. I'm not involved, but that's my understanding.

Q. If the City has a runoff, that's the only thing 

on the ballot; is that correct?

A. Because it would be a stand-alone. We're no 

longer piggybacking off of the County's election, so it 

would be a stand-alone runoff and we would incur those 

costs.

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Q. Is that invoiced separately from the other 

special election?

A. I believe it probably would be, in that 

circumstances.

Q. By comparison, when it's a general municipal --

A. But, again, I'm sorry, I don't know. I don't 

know, because it's not something that we've ever run 

into.

Q. So, by comparison, in the general municipal 

election context, the invoice comes after the runoff is 

over, if it happens, because it's considered one 

election?

A. If I remember correctly. I don't think we get 

two separate invoices. But, again, if there were, they 

would have the cost associated with the general and then 

you would just have the cost associated with the runoff, 

but I just don't remember if it's two separate or one. 

I'd like to think that it's one, but I just don't 

remember.

Q. Do you know if it's more expensive to hold a 

runoff during a year of an odd numbered general 

municipal election or if it's more expensive to hold a 

runoff if it's run on an even year through a special 

election?

A. I don't know the answer to that question. I 

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would assume it would probably be the same.

Q. How much does a runoff cost, as opposed to the 

general election?

A. From what I know, it's usually similar to what 

you would see with like a special election, because if 

it's just for that district, you're talking around 

180,000 or so forth. But if it's City-wide, if you're 

having a runoff, let's say, for mayor, and it's 

City-wide, then the cost would be, I think, commensurate 

with what you would see with a City of Miami general 

election that's run City-wide.

Q. And the cost is per seat?

A. Per district, and then the number of voters in 

that district and the resources needed to hold an 

election for that district.

Q. Have you ever had a runoff in which multiple 

Commission seats were both in the runoff?

A. I've only -- from what I recall, it's usually 

just been one. I don't remember a situation where two 

seats have led to a runoff. I just don't remember.

Q. If two seats did lead to a runoff, would you 

estimate that it would cost twice as much as the one 

seat?

A. Yes.

Q. For this 2023 general municipal election, is 

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your work on the ballot done?

A. Yes.

Q. When you hand it off to the County, is your 

work done at that point?

A. Well, no. The County will essentially -- 

again, they need to format the ballot, they need to code 

the ballot, and then they'll place the names on the 

ballot, and then they will send what's called a master 

ballot back to me. I will review the master ballot, to 

make sure the names are all spelled correctly, in the 

correct order and so forth, and then I sign off on that 

master ballot and then I'll send it back to the 

Elections Department. So I do need to sign off on what 

they would call the master ballot, that they'll use then 

for the IVotetronics and every other ballot that's used 

in the election. 

Q. Do you interact with the County during that 

time?

A. Yes.

Q. Who do you interact with at the County?

A. Primarily their Governmental Division, since 

it's their Governmental Division that's assisting 

municipalities with the elections. That's who I would 

be working with. 

Q. Is there a specific person you've worked with 

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most recently in that context?

A. I just forgot her name. Elizabeth Prieto, if I 

remember correctly.

Q. Anyone else you recall? 

A. We could be working with Deputy Supervisor of 

Election Roberto Rodriguez, but it's -- primarily, I 

think it would be Elizabeth, simply because she is the 

initial point of contact, you know, with the 

municipalities when it comes to the ballots.

Q. Do you enjoy working with her?

A. Absolutely.

Q. Have you ever had any disagreements?

A. None.

Q. Is that true for everyone you've worked with 

over at the County?

A. Every single person I've worked with at the 

County, yes.

Q. That's great. 

A. It is. It truly is. It's something that I 

just feel very -- I'm just happy to be able to share 

that, because, like you said, it's not as common as you 

would like it to be.

Q. All right. 

MS. MCNAMARA: This is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 

8. 

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(Thereupon, Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 8 was 

marked for Identification.)

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. The reporter has handed you Plaintiffs' Exhibit 

8. Do you recognize this document? You can take some 

time to look at it. It's two pages. 

A. Yeah, I see that I was copied on it. So, yes. 

Oh, two pages. Yes. 

Q. So who is Nicole Ewan? Is that how you say her 

name? 

A. Yes. She's the Assistant City Clerk for the 

City of Miami.

Q. How many Assistant City Clerks do you have? 

A. Just one.

Q. And she works directly for you?

A. Yes.

Q. How do you enjoy working with her? 

A. She is tremendous. I wouldn't have been City 

-- I definitely want to put this on the record. I 

wouldn't have been City Clerk for the past ten years if 

it wasn't for her, plain and simple.

Q. Has she been your assistant throughout all of 

those ten years?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you work together prior to you becoming the 

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clerk?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did she send this e-mail? Did you tell her 

to send it?

A. I was in Virginia visiting my dad and 

stepmother at the time, so she was authorized to be able 

to send this e-mail on my behalf.

Q. And when you say that, you're referring to the 

e-mail at the bottom of the first page? 

A. Oh, yes. Thank you.

Q. Tuesday, August 1st, 2023, 3:25 p.m.? 

A. Yes. 

Q. And what is the purpose of that e-mail?

A. So this was, essentially, to communicate the 

legislation and the map associated with the latest 

redistricting to the County.

Q. Would you have sent this e-mail, if you hadn't 

been on vacation?

A. Absolutely, yes.

Q. Do you have any disagreements with the content 

of the e-mail that Nicole sent?

A. No.

Q. Did you approve it?

A. I saw it, so, yes, I would say I approved it.

Q. Did she write it herself?

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A. That I do not know.

Q. Is this a type of e-mail that's sent regularly?

A. No, because of the nature of redistricting, and 

it's something that we do once only every ten years, 

that this wouldn't be a common e-mail.

Q. Do you know why this e-mail was sent, on the 

day it was sent?

A. So the Elections Department had requested the 

naps that they were going to use for the reprecincting, 

so the voter registration cards could be sent by August 

1st.

Q. Was there any discussion of sending it earlier 

than August 1st?

A. No. Not to my knowledge, no.

Q. Do you usually send it on the day that it's 

due?

A. Again, it just depends on the nature of the 

subject.

Q. And, then, if you turn back over to the top, so 

this was sent, I see it is indicating, 3:25 p.m., on 

Tuesday, August 1st. And, then, above it, there's an 

e-mail from Vanessa Innocent, responding, and it says, 

Tuesday, August 1st at 3:42 p.m. Looks like she's 

confirming receipt of the e-mail. Would you agree with 

that characterization?

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A. Yes.

Q. And who is Vanessa Innocent?

A. I want to say that she's an Assistant Deputy 

Supervisor of Elections.

Q. Have you worked with her before?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you enjoy working with her?

A. Very much so.

Q. And, then, on top, Nicole responds, it looks 

like a few hours later, saying, "You're welcome." Is 

there anything else, that you're aware of, that happened 

in this interaction, other than just them both writing 

back and forth, thank you, that was easy to do?

A. Not that I'm aware of, no.

Q. Are you aware of any further discussions 

related to this, after this was sent?

A. No.

Q. All right. You can -- 

A. Okay. 

Q. You never know, we might come back to it, but 

that's my questions for that. 

A. Understood. 

Q. I mean, there's two topics, and obviously some 

of the topics overlap, we've been talking about the 

County, but I'm planning now to move to Topic 2. 

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Can you pull back up Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7 and 

read to me what Topic 2 is off of that?

A. "The relationship between the City of Miami and 

the Miami-Dade County Elections Department." 

Q. So how would you describe that relationship?

A. As an excellent relationship, very 

professional, and, you know, one that I've never had an 

issue with, when it comes to any of the elections that 

I've dealt with, as it relates to their assistance.

Q. Is it a formal relationship?

A. Yes. I mean, formal relationship from the 

standpoint that they provide us with election services 

and assistance.

Q. Do you have a written contract?

A. No, we've never had a written contract, to the 

best of my knowledge, with the Elections Department, for 

the services and assistance they provide.

Q. How do you determine the nature of the 

interaction? Like is there some sort of Statute or 

guidelines that say how you'll interact or that governs 

it?

A. Well, I guess, pursuant to the Charter and the 

City Code, you know, I'm empowered to exercise all of 

the powers to be able to conduct the functions and 

duties of an election. And so, essentially, I work with 

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the Elections Department, as the official representative 

of the City, when it comes to the conducting of 

elections.

Q. Is there a set schedule of prices that the 

County uses?

A. Not that I'm aware of, no. You know, like I 

said, early on in the year, we'll ask for an estimate, 

so we have a general idea of how much the election is 

going to cost, and that rarely deviates from what we get 

when it comes to the final invoice.

Q. But there's nothing written down, separate from 

the individual year to year negotiations, of how that 

would go? 

MR. JOHNSON: Objection, predicate.

THE WITNESS: I mean, they send me an 

election verification form that asks for 

information, such as when is our qualifying 

period, do you have a runoff, do you want us to 

pay for the postage when it comes the to vote 

by mail. So I do sign an election verification 

form.

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. Is this every year?

A. For our elections, yes, all of our elections.

Q. So that is the odd numbered years?

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A. Yes.

Q. Odd numbered year budgets are enacted the 

previous year?

A. So it would be for -- so just like we were 

talking about a little earlier, the budget for this 

fiscal year, that encompasses the November election, was 

passed -- was implemented on October 1st, passed 

September 28th. So we had an estimate for the cost that 

was built in for the fiscal year 23-24 budget, which 

accommodates the District 1, 2 and 4 election.

Q. Is the City of Miami on an October 1st fiscal 

year?

A. Yes.

Q. So, today is, let's say, October 6th. This is 

the first week of your fiscal year?

A. Yes.

Q. And so the general municipal elections for 2023 

is in the current budgeted year that we're in right now?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that true, also, if you happen to have any 

elections in March or August of 2024?

A. So, for planned elections, we'll have the 

estimate in advance, but if a special election case in 

-- well, we had plenty of time to prepare for the 

District 2 vacancy, but let's say, District 1, if they 

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decided to have a special election, then I would have 

needed to -- which we already have -- receive, you know, 

an estimate. It wouldn't have been built in to this 

current fiscal year, because the budget has already been 

passed. So, essentially, I think, it would have to come 

from some other reserve account that the City has.

Q. And, then, the general County election that's 

being held in November of 2024, that would be part of 

the next fiscal year's budget?

A. So, our current budget goes from October 1st, 

2023 until September 30th, 2024. So if we're to do 

something in August, it would be with the current fiscal 

year budget. But, then, if we were to do something in 

November of 2024, it would be the fiscal year 24-25 

budget.

Q. Do you have any reason to think that the budget 

for the next fiscal year, 24-25, will be more or have 

more money allocated for elections than otherwise?

A. We don't have any elections in '24 or '25, up 

to the fiscal year.

Q. Uh-huh. 

A. There would maybe be some money set aside for 

noticing, because that occurs usually in September, but 

the 25-26, that fiscal year, we would have had to have 

some funds allocated, because that's when we're going to 

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be having the City-wide, for mayor, District 3 and 

District 5, in 2025. Is that what we're talking about? 

Q. Yes. So if we assume that there are no special 

elections, there's the November 2023 general municipal 

election that's going to happen, that's on this current 

fiscal year?

A. Yes.

Q. The next fiscal year, which begins October 1st, 

2024 through September 30th, 2025, you do not expect to 

hold any actual elections during that time?

A. Correct.

Q. Although you have testified that there are some 

costs preparing for the November election that happen 

before -- 

A. Yes. There's some notices that we will go 

ahead and publish in September, and maybe even August, 

to prepare for the November 2025 election.

Q. And the actual costs of the November 2025 

election that the County will invoice to you after the 

election goes on the '25 to '26 fiscal year budget?

A. Yes. Yes. 

Q. How does it feel that we're talking about 2025 

and 2026?

A. I'm just trying to get to November 7th.

Q. Do you have any plans after the election ends? 

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Do you take vacation immediately?

A. I wish it was that simple.

Q. How long do you have to keep working on the 

election materials after the election is over?

A. It still takes additional time, because if 

everyone wins on November 7th, then you still have to 

prepare for the swearing in, and then there are still 

responsibilities when it comes to making sure that the 

incoming elected official has filled out all of the 

appropriate forms, such as, you know, ethics training 

and financial disclosure and so forth. So it's an 

ongoing process.

Q. Is there ever any negotiations between the City 

and County over the cost and pricing?

A. No.

Q. And you don't want there to be?

A. No, because, again, I know that we're getting 

the better end of the deal.

Q. Okay. Is there any one, other than the County, 

that the City pays in connection with election 

administration?

A. No.

Q. Do you have any other vendors who you hire?

A. Well, let me -- so, to give a little context, 

we require that our campaign treasurer report be 

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submitted electronically. So we do have an outside 

vendor, when it comes to the submission of campaign 

treasurer reports. And so while that's not necessarily, 

quote/unquote, like a part of the election cost, because 

if you're a candidate running in 2025, you're going to 

have to start filing your campaign treasurer reports 

electrically. So there is an outside cost with the 

vendor that we use, VR Systems, when it comes to the 

filing of campaign treasury reports, but that's maybe 

$5,000 a year, $6,000 a year.

Q. How long has that system been in place?

A. I would say, close to about ten years. When I 

became City Clerk, I think we had the opportunity to 

implement that.

Q. Did you work with it prior to it being 

electronic filing? 

A. Before the electronic filing, it was all done 

by paper. 

Q. Do you prefer the electronic or the paper?

A. Electronic, yes.

Q. Has it made your life easier? 

A. Yes, and increased transparency.

Q. Has it influenced the cost of running the 

election?

A. We're talking about $5,000, $6,000, so I would 

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say, no.

Q. Do you consider that there are any significant 

expenses in the budget absent the money you pay to the 

County?

A. No.

Q. Is your salary or like your personnel costs for 

your office to run generally, considered in the cost of 

elections?

A. No, but I'm going to start to think that maybe 

I should start to align my salary with the number of 

elections we have in any given year, but, no.

Q. Give yourself a bonus. And they are like, why 

is the City having twelve elections next year?

A. But, no, it does not.

Q. Okay. Do you ever sign contracts on behalf of 

the City yourself?

A. No, I do not.

Q. Are you involved in procurement or any choice 

of vendors, in general?

A. Well, when it came to the vendor that we use, 

VR Systems, I mean, the Manager entered into the 

agreement with VR Systems. So that was something that 

we had recommended to the Manager, as being a vendor 

that we thought was highly qualified to be able to 

provide the services needed.

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Q. So how does that process work, when you are 

choosing that? Do you give a recommendation to the 

Manager, and then the Manager handles everything from 

there?

A. Yes.

Q. Is there any issues with that, in general?

A. I've never experienced any issues, no, but, 

again, we're not talking about a million dollar 

contract. So the threshold is so slow, that it doesn't 

really have the same scrutiny as if I was trying to -- I 

don't know, if VR Systems is going to require $500,000, 

to provide us with the same service.

Q. Are you involved in any contracting, outside of 

the election context? I mean, similar to how you 

contracted with VR Systems for this, is there anything 

else, that's not an election thing, that you experience 

with contracting with a vendor and then handing it off 

to the City Manager? 

A. That's usually handled by the Procurement 

Department.

Q. Would you describe it as a regular part of your 

job?

A. No. 

Q. Is the contract for VR Systems the only 

contract like that, that you have, where you've procured 

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something? 

A. We've procured other services through the 

Procurement Department. FTR is a recording system that 

we use, For The Record, when it comes to recording City 

Commission meetings. We also have an online equipment 

system for our passport operation, but the Procurement 

Department assisted us with those vendors.

Q. Do you ever hold any audits of the cost of 

elections after the fact?

A. We've never had an audit of the elections after 

the fact.

Q. Has there ever been a question raised that too 

much money is being spent on elections by the City?

A. I think a lot of people realize that we're 

getting pennies on the dollar for the services that we 

get in return.

Q. Okay. Has the City ever refused to pay the 

County for an election?

A. For an election? No.

Q. Is there a dispute process in place if you 

needed to?

A. Since we've never rejected or denied paying an 

invoice, I don't know the answer to that question. 

Q. What if something happens -- let's say there's 

a hurricane or something -- and the cost of the election 

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is significantly higher than it would have otherwise 

been expected, is that extra cost born by the City or 

the County?

A. I don't know. I've never experienced a 

situation like that. First, I don't know how the County 

would want to deal with those incurred extra expenses.

Q. But that's not something that has happened for 

you before?

A. Not while I've been City Clerk.

Q. Do you ever recall a situation when a general 

municipal election was rescheduled due to a hurricane?

A. To the best of my knowledge, no, from what I 

can remember.

Q. Is that also true for special elections that 

are held at other times of the year? 

A. If there was going to be a hurricane -- 

Q. A hurricane or, let's say, a weather-related 

event, that causes something to be rescheduled. You've 

set an election for February 1st, and the something 

happens and it has to be pushed to March 1st, has that 

ever happened?

A. No. 

Q. Do you ever recall an election, that was in the 

works and in place, then being rescheduled for another 

time?

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A. Not to my knowledge, no.

Q. Do you ever consider the possibility of that 

happening as part of budgeting and costs preparations? 

A. No. 

Q. Do you think it's likely that would ever 

happen?

A. No. 

Q. How would you feel if the election, let's say, 

this November 2023 municipal election, was pushed and 

happened in December, instead of November, just for no 

particular reason? 

A. I mean, since it's our election, I don't see 

why there would be any additional cost. If we were 

piggybacking off of the County, maybe there would be 

additional costs, because we no longer would be able to 

piggyback on their election, but since it's our 

election, I don't know why there would be additional 

costs.

Q. In a year in which you have a general municipal 

election, do you have a general schedule of what you 

expect to do during that year to make that election 

happen?

A. Yes.

Q. Is it consistent year to year?

A. Yes.

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Q. When do you begin preparing for the November 

2023 municipal election?

A. January of 2023, if not earlier.

Q. Are you currently doing any work for the 2025 

general municipal election? 

A. At this time, no.

Q. Are you still doing any work related to the 

2021 November municipal election?

A. No.

Q. How long after the November 2021 municipal 

election was it before you finished work related to that 

election?

A. Maybe a month, at the most, later.

Q. Is it common that you work on two separate 

general municipal elections at the same time?

A. They're so far spaced out that I would say, no, 

and the reason why I talk about how there's still more 

work to be done, after a general election, you have 

termination reports. And so candidates, within 90 days 

of, you know, either being elected or defeated, have, 

within 90 days, to submit their termination reports to 

ensure that their contributions met their expenditures 

and so forth. So it's really just kind of wrap up 

work.

MS. MCNAMARA: Let's look at the time. 

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It's 12:10. I mean, I think we're pretty close 

to ending Topics 1 and Topics 2. Do you want 

to take a break, we'll assess, and then we can 

come back? 

MR. JOHNSON: Yes. I don't want to do a 

lunch break or anything. 

MS. MCNAMARA: My plan is to do a lunch 

break once we're done with Todd and then we can 

reassess and then we can come back. 

MR. JOHNSON: Okay. How much time do you 

need? 

MS. MCNAMARA: Ten minutes now. 

(Short recess taken.) 

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

Q. Does the law tell you what the structure of the 

election will be?

A. So can you elaborate on "structure"? 

Q. You're told what to do based on the law, and 

then you execute it; is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have any discretion in that process of 

how the election was operated?

A. No. I do not believe so, no.

Q. We talked a little bit about extra costs. Does 

the length of the ballot cost extra? Like if there's 

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four inches of page versus two inches of page -- 

A. It goes by page. So if it's just on one page, 

then there's no extra cost, per se. I wouldn't think 

anything significant. I think we incur an additional 

cost, but it's not significant, when you start having 

two or three pages associated with your election, the 

length of the ballot.

Q. And I believe you testified earlier that no 

one's ever asked you to reduce the cost of elections? 

A. No.

Q. Do you consider the cost of the elections 

something that is a policy that you put in place?

A. I think that's pursuant to the Charter and 

State Statutes.

Q. Is that a political question for the 

Commission?

A. But it's definitely not a question for me to 

answer.

Q. Okay. So you were talking about before how you 

started to work on the November of 2023 election in 

January or maybe a little bit earlier. What do you do 

in the beginning?

A. It's just a roadmap. I guess I should 

elaborate. It's not like we're doing any substantial 

work. It's more knowing when the campaign treasury 

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reports are going to be due, when -- the last day to 

register to vote. For us, it's just a time line of 

important dates, essentially, that we work on towards 

the beginning of the year, so we know what we need to be 

doing, when we need to be doing it.

Q. You're planning it out, so you don't have any 

surprises?

A. Yes.

Q. Let's say, on January 1st -- assume it's true, 

let's assume that January 1st was the first day you 

worked on this election, and you came in and someone 

said, "Hold on. Hold on. We've got to put this off for 

two months and we're going to start on March 1st 

instead," how would that impact your time line and your 

work?

A. Well, we would simply just need to work with 

the Miami-Dade Elections Department to ensure that we 

can accommodate for that length of time that the 

election has been moved it. So, you know, again, it 

wouldn't require a tremendous amount of work on my side, 

just from the standpoint of, you know, the timelines and 

the deadlines that we have for a regularly scheduled 

election. We would just have to adjust to this new 

election date.

Q. Do you talk to someone at the County and give 

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them a heads up, that you need to revise the time line?

A. Oh, absolutely.

Q. Does that happen regularly?

A. No.

Q. Do you recall the last time you had to do that?

A. I don't know if I've ever had to do that, from 

what I can recall.

Q. Has there ever been a time when the County is 

asking you to hurry up or do something faster?

A. When it comes to our regularly scheduled 

elections, they will usually give us the time frame in 

which they need various documents. And so where they've 

asked us to hurry up, not that I recall.

Q. So, after the initial period of laying out the 

schedule, what's the next bit of important work that you 

do on the election preparation?

A. I guess it would be the preparation of public 

notices.

Q. When does the first public notice need to go 

out?

A. For a general municipal election, I believe 

it's around August. So a couple of months before the 

actual election occurs. 

Q. When do you begin drafting that notice?

A. Maybe the month prior.

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Q. How complicated is that process?

A. Not very complicated.

Q. Do you need the entire month or is it just a 

matter of you plan it out a month in advance to make 

sure you get it done?

A. We plan out a month in advance just so that we 

can begin to work with the County to begin the 

translation for the notices. So that's where the bulk 

of the work, I think, occurs, just making sure that we 

have the notice done, so it can be translated.

Q. Are there like approval steps, like you have to 

get it approved by the attorney's office or anyone else?

A. Yes. We do show the City Attorney's Office 

what the notice will entail, and then they will, you 

know, indicate whether or not any changes need to be 

made. And, then, after we get their approval, then we 

would send it to the Elections Department for 

translation. 

Q. Do you ever get in a situation where the 

deadline is looming and you're in a hurry, because 

you're waiting on someone else to approve something?

A. No, I've never run into that problem before.

Q. Would you say, as a general matter, that you 

run on schedule?

A. Yes.

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Q. Do you have experience with situations where 

the schedule has gotten messed up? 

A. No.

Q. How do you think it would be, if that did 

happen?

A. I guess it would depend on what the situation 

entails. Can you elaborate? 

Q. What if -- like you said, August 1st is the 

deadline for the notice. 

A. Well, it's not really the deadline for the 

notice. We send them out in August. We have to send 

them out within a particular time frame. So there's 

flexibility there.

Q. Let's say it's June 1st and you're planning on 

August 1st being when you send out the notices, and on 

June 1st, you get a message that actually the notice 

needs to go out on July 1st, instead of August 1st. How 

would that impact the work that you do?

A. So, essentially, I guess, I would just have to 

expedite the approval process from the City Attorney's 

Office, and if the Elections Department can perform the 

translation, but I've never experienced something like 

that before, so I don't exactly know.

Q. Have you ever been in a situation where you 

needed to hire like extra contract staff to help you get 

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work done, because you don't have enough personnel to 

get the work done? 

A. No.

Q. What is the City's role in candidate 

qualifying?

A. So I'm the qualifying officer for the City, and 

so when it comes to qualifying, there are various 

documents that are required. There's an affidavit of 

candidate that we review, and that either myself or a 

deputy can notarize. And so, between the affidavit of 

candidate, there is a financial disclosure form that's 

required, and then the State of Florida's non-partisan 

oath for candidates is required. 

Q. Is there anything that happens between the 

notice period and the candidate qualifying period?

A. Well, the notice brings attention to the 

qualifying period. So, essentially, we're just 

preparing, I guess, in between the time that the notice 

goes out and the qualifying period. We're answering any 

questions the candidates may have or preparing, making 

sure that we have all extra forms, but that usually is 

just preparation for the qualifying period. 

Q. Are there any specific tasks that you have to 

do to prepare for the election, prior to the notices?

A. Other than I'm receiving an estimate from the 

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Elections Department, which is something that we do for 

our regularly scheduled elections. We come up with our 

deadlines, you know, early on in the year, so that we 

can go ahead and go over, again, you know, when campaign 

treasury reports are due, when -- you know, the last 

date to register to vote and so forth, when the 

qualifying period will begin, when various notices go 

out, but that's primarily what's involved in the 

preparation.

Q. And, then, once the candidate qualifying 

begins, what is your role in that?

A. So, once it begins, again, the Clerk serves as 

the qualifying officer. So we receive the qualifying 

documents, and we make sure that they are complete, you 

know, on their face, that there aren't any -- what you 

would call any defects with the qualifying documents, 

and that's usually what the qualifying process entails.

Q. When does the qualifying period end? 

A. It's a specific period of time, and it's laid 

out pursuant to the Charter. I believe it's no greater 

than 60 days before an election and no less than 45. 

There's a window that you always have before your 

general municipal election for the qualifying period.

Q. Once the candidates are qualified, what other 

responsibilities do you have for the election?

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A. So, once they've been qualified, then we need 

to start to send that information to the candidates -- 

the names of the candidates to the Elections Department, 

so that they can draft the master ballot. And like I 

was explaining before, the Elections Department will 

draft the master ballot, they will send it back to me 

for my approval, and so then they use that master 

ballot, again, for the IVotetronics, the optical, so 

forth, vote by mail. 

Then we also need to start preparing for the 

canvassing board activities, which involves logic and 

accuracy testing. So I go up to the Elections 

Department, where they perform a test on a sample number 

of voting machines, and they'll do a tabulation from the 

number. 

So, logic and accuracy involves basically a 

sample number of voting machines, where ballots are fed 

in, where they've already been pre-filled out, and so 

once those ballots are fed through the machines, then 

the Elections Department will tabulate those results and 

then there's just a report that's produced, that I sign, 

showing that the ballots that were run through the 

voting machines match what was tabulated. 

Q. And this is done before the election?

A. Yes.

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Q. And this is just to make sure there's no 

problems? 

A. That's required, pursuant to State Statute, is 

my understanding. 

Q. How long does that period take?

A. It's just a day, maybe it takes them a couple 

of hours, two or three hours.

Q. After that's done, is the ballot ready to be 

sent to the County -- materials on the ballot?

A. Oh, I'm sorry. 

Q. Is this before the -- 

A. My apologies. The finalizing of the ballot is 

done before logic and accuracy. So the ballot is done. 

Yeah, we're done with the ballot. Essentially what 

they're getting ready to do, I'm sure they're in the 

process of printing it and getting ready to send the 

vote by mail ballots out, if not this week, early next 

week. So that part of the process is done. 

Now we get into more of the kind of nuts and 

bolts, I guess you could say, with logic and accuracy 

testing, and then, you know, the submittal of campaign 

treasury reports. We'll have early voting coming up 

towards the end of the month, so we start to prepare for 

the next phase of the election.

Q. Do you know what the County is doing during 

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this time?

A. I don't know specifically. I just know that 

they do it very well.

Q. Do you communicate during that period?

A. I mean, they're letting us know when vote by 

mail ballots are going out, when we need to appear for 

the logic and accuracy testing. So they're handling the 

operation side of the election.

Q. Does the same thing happen for a special 

election that's being held separately from the general 

municipal election?

A. Yes.

Q. Does it take longer or less time when it's just 

a special election?

A. It's the same process, so essentially the same 

amount of time. You may have -- the logic and accuracy 

testing may be happening a little sooner, simply because 

there's a shorter period of time between when the 

qualifying period ends for that election and the 

election is actually going to occur, but there isn't 

that much of a difference.

Q. Is there any cost to holding the election 

concurrent with the County scheduled election, when you 

have a special election?

A. So -- yeah, if you could elaborate.

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Q. Let's say that the County is already running 

their election, and you're adding a special -- you know, 

District 1, let's just say, has an election that's going 

to be put on that ballot. What additional costs does 

the City bear to fit into that County election ballot?

A. You know, I believe, and -- I don't know 

exactly, but I believe it would be more the cost 

associated with the ballot, because whereas before the 

County didn't have to worry about creating a ballot for 

the City for District 1, now they do have to create a 

ballot, so there would be cost incurred associated with 

the ballot, but if we're still using their polling 

locations and we're using, you know, their canvassing 

board and we're using all of their resources, the cost 

wouldn't be that significant. 

Q. Is the City's ballot separate from the rest of 

the ballot that the County puts out?

A. Well, I mean, if it's a County-wide election, 

then obviously everyone in the County is getting a 

ballot. We're just adding on to that ballot. And so, 

essentially, that becomes our ballot, because we're 

adding either a candidate or a question to it, but it's 

still going to include all of the other information that 

the other voters would be receiving in the County. So 

if it's like a County-wide referendum question, they 

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would now just see, in District 1, this additional part 

to their ballot for a candidate.

Q. Does the City bear any of the costs for the 

County's lines on the ballot?

A. No. Well, let me rephrase that, because we now 

-- that is now our ballot. Again, sorry, if I'm not 

being clear, but if it's a County-wide election, and 

let's just say it's a Charter amendment question that is 

going to every voter in Miami-Dade. So we don't incur 

any cost, because it's going to every voter in 

Miami-Dade County, because the County is having an 

election to pose a Charter amendment question. But if 

we now add something to that ballot, that ballot becomes 

ours, per se, from the standpoint that they now have to 

code it a little differently, is my understanding, and 

so we would now pay to be able to add that candidate or 

question to the ballot, but, again, it's not -- it's not 

a significant cost, but there would be some cost 

associated, because now it becomes our ballot for the 

City of Miami, because they have to code it in a 

different way, is my understanding.

Q. Does it change the cost of the public notices 

when you hold a special election that's concurrent with 

the County election? 

A. Well, we wouldn't have any public notices, if 

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we don't have an election. So there's no cost incurred 

for the County having its County-wide election, but 

there would be some cost incurred for having a piggyback 

off of a Miami-Dade County election.

Q. And are there any costs that come in that 

piggyback situation that we haven't already discussed 

here?

A. Not -- again, the public notices would be an 

additional cost, but outside of that, not that I would 

be aware of.

Q. So if there is a County -- a regular County 

election coming up, and the City has a special election 

that is going onto that ballot, there is a separate 

notice that the City needs to do?

A. Yes. Yes.

Q. In addition to the notice that the County does?

A. Yeah. The County will do its own notice as to 

what it needs to do to comply with State Statute, and 

then we would have to notice the special election in 

accordance with State Statute.

Q. Do other municipalities that are also on that 

ballot do the same thing, do their own notices?

A. It would be my understanding, yes.

Q. I think you mentioned costs of parking at some 

point related to elections. 

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A. I don't know if there's a cost associated with 

parking, but we would help them, if they're having a 

hard time with parking. So let me put it this way, 

there are some polling locations, particularly Downtown, 

that don't have a lot of parking, and so what we 

normally do is, we work with the Miami Parking Authority 

to -- I guess, they put like bags or something over it, 

so that, you know, it's reserved for voting only and so 

I don't know if that's necessarily really a cost, but 

it's something that we would help the Elections 

Department with, the managing of it.

Q. Is the goal to have parking available for 

voters? 

A. Yes.

Q. Does it also provide parking for the poll 

workers?

A. Yes, we do need to provide parking for the poll 

workers, as well.

Q. What about early voting, how much early voting 

does the City do on a City general municipal election?

A. Nine days.

Q. How many days of early voting does the County 

do on their general election? 

A. Two weeks, I believe, two full weeks.

Q. If the City has a special election that's on 

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the County, do you get the full two weeks that the 

County does?

A. Yes.

Q. Does that cost you anything extra to get that?

A. Again, I don't believe we incur that much cost 

associated with that part of the election process, 

because they're already paying for those sites. The 

only thing that we're doing is adding to the ballot. 

And so they've already secured those sites. They 

already have their personnel -- you know, trained their 

personnel for those particular sites. They're already 

providing the equipment for those sites. So I do not 

believe we would incur -- if anything, it may be a 

nominal charge, if that.

Q. What about for a runoff?

A. That's when we incur all of those costs by the 

City. The City would incur those costs.

Q. Do you do early voting on a runoff? 

A. We do. It's something I'm very proud, so I can 

put it on the record, that I was able to implement 

runoff voting. We never had it before. And I'm not 

trying to, you know, brag or anything, but it's 

something I'm very proud of, because we didn't have 

runoff -- I'm sorry, we didn't have early voting for 

runoffs until I became City Clerk. We do three days. 

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It's usually a Friday and then Saturday and Sunday 

before the election.

Q. If you had a special election that was on the 

County's general election, on an even numbered year, and 

it led to a runoff, would you do the same amount of 

early voting that the City would do in a City odd 

numbered year or would you do the amount of early voting 

that the County would do in their general? 

A. If we're piggybacking off the County, we're 

going with what the County has or provides.

Q. So, hypothetically, November of 2024, let's say 

that District 5 is, for whatever reason, up for election 

in a special election, and then it goes to a runoff 

later, after November. That runoff election would be 

the only election being held by the County; is that 

correct?

A. Right, for the City of Miami.

Q. And it's your understanding that the County 

would control how much early voting is done for that 

runoff?

A. Yes. We would request three, like we normally 

would, for our runoffs, but it would be up to them to 

decide if they could accommodate that request.

Q. And then they charge you based on how much it 

costs to do that?

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A. Yes.

Q. If you told them you wanted seven early days 

for the runoff instead of three, would it cost more?

A. It would, but it's just not possible. 

Q. Okay. So it's just three days?

A. We were lucky to get three days.

Q. Okay. And no one else does the runoffs; is 

that right? I mean, the County doesn't?

A. Yes. It's my understanding.

Q. Do you know of any other municipalities in 

Miami-Dade that do the runoff structure the way the City 

does? 

A. I know Miami Beach, I believe, does. Since we 

were able to request it, I think they are also asking 

for it, but I don't know about the others. Our election 

cycle is usually aligned with Homestead, Hialeah and 

Miami Beach. So I just know Miami Beach, that they do 

like three days for a runoff, and they have fewer sites, 

as well. 

Q. What would the impact be on the City's election 

prep work if you started roadmapping and doing other 

prep in March instead of in January?

A. Can you repeat the question? 

Q. What would the impact be on the City's election 

prep work, if you started roadmapping and doing other 

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prep in March instead of January?

A. I don't think it would have that much effect. 

Again, the roadmap is really for us to know -- it's a 

very simple document, that just kind of lines out 

various -- that outlines various deadlines, what should 

we be doing, what should we be doing, public notices, 

you know, again, campaign treasury report, when the 

qualifying period begins, when it comes to poll 

watchers. It's just a document that provides us with a 

timeline.

Q. What if, instead of starting in March, you 

started in April?

A. I don't think it would have that much of an 

impact.

Q. Is that the same if it's May?

A. Well, as we start getting closer then -- you 

kind of know what you're facing as you get closer to the 

actual election. So I would prefer to try to do it to 

earlier rather than later.

Q. Would the City be capable of implementing a 

City-wide special election in November of 2024?

A. That would be up to the Elections Department, 

but we would simply be requesting a piggyback. We would 

be requesting a City-wide to piggyback off of their 

November election. The question becomes whether or not 

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they could assist us with a runoff, because our runoff 

is basically two weeks after the general, and so, with 

them, they are, I'm sure, still with their canvassing 

board, probably still getting through vote by mail 

ballots, trying to get their certification to the 

Division of Elections, but it's not something that would 

be out of the ordinary to ask, because, again, we're 

requesting to piggyback off of an already established 

election.

Q. How much of a burden would it be on your office 

if that were to happen?

A. If we were to piggyback off of the County 

election? 

Q. If you were to hold a City-wide special 

election in November 2024. 

A. I don't see it as being a burden. It would be 

something that we would pretty much treat like a general 

municipal election on an odd year election cycle.

Q. Would it be a burden on other departments of 

the City, other than your department?

A. I do not believe so.

Q. And were there any issues relating to 

conducting the District 2 special election?

A. No.

Q. Was it any burden on the City, in general, 

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related to that?

A. I mean, it's a tighter time frame in which 

you're having to get things done, so granted, obviously, 

it's stressful, but, no, we've done it before, and so we 

know what the work entails.

Q. Do you have an estimate of how much you think 

it would cost to hold a City-wide special election in 

November of 2024?

A. It would definitely be below the 900,000. I 

can't give you an exact amount, but it would be lower.

Q. Would you expect it to be higher than 500,000?

A. I wouldn't expect it to be, no.

Q. Would you expect it to be higher than 300,000?

A. That I don't know. It's been a while since 

we -- 

Q. And in that situation, would it vary if there 

was one seat -- I mean, it's City-wide, so -- City-wide, 

you're taking into account that everyone in the City is 

getting a ballot, and it would be cheaper if you were 

limited to, say, only one district?

A. So if there was just one -- yes. I understand.

Q. Instead of a City-wide special election, it was 

just an individual -- 

A. Yes, it's fewer ballots, as long as we're 

piggybacking off of the County. 

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Q. Okay. Do you consider the cost of that to be 

significant?

A. I mean, I guess that would really be up to the 

Commissioners to determine if the cost is significant. 

It's whatever I'm instructed to do.

Q. If the Commissioners instructed you to hold a 

City-wide special election in November of 2024, would 

you be prepared to do that?

A. Yes, again, upon the approval of the Elections 

Department.

Q. Once they tell you what to do, then you're able 

to do it?

A. Yes.

Q. Have they ever told you to do something and you 

thought, I can't do that?

A. No.

Q. Can you imagine a situation where that might 

happen?

A. Because I've never experienced it, I just don't 

know of a situation where that would occur.

Q. All right. I have one last document. I think 

we'll say this is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 9. 

(Thereupon, Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 9 was 

marked for Identification.)

BY MS. MCNAMARA:

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Q. This has been marked as Exhibit 9 for the 

Plaintiffs. Do you recognize this document?

A. No.

Q. Have you ever looked at it before?

A. No.

Q. Do you generally look at legal materials or 

briefs that are filed on behalf -- 

A. No.

Q. Okay. Can you turn to Page 9 of this brief? 

And, then, down, you see Footnote 3 at the bottom of 

this page?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you read the first sentence of that 

footnote?

A. "The Miami-Dade County's reprecincting process 

is complicated and time consuming." 

Q. Can you read the second sentence? 

A. "The County needs a detailed map with exact 

district boundaries." 

Q. And can you read the third sentence?

A. "The City had over a month to work with its 

Geographic Information Systems team to put the 

information together for the County." 

Q. Can you describe the process of the Geographic 

Information Systems team, what they do in that 

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situation?

A. I'm not involved in that process, so I don't 

know. 

Q. Do you have any involvement at all in how that 

goes?

A. No. 

Q. Are you aware of the cost of that?

A. No.

Q. Do you understand that this is referring to 

what just happened in -- 

A. Yes.

Q. -- whatever, August, July, like a month or two 

ago?

A. I do understand.

Q. Were you involved -- scratch that. 

Were you involved in any way in that process 

there?

A. No.

Q. Do you know what the City was doing in the 

month of July of 2023 related to implementing the new 

map?

A. I do not, no, I'm not involved in that 

process. 

Q. Do you know what was going on prior to the 

e-mail that we looked at earlier being sent on August 

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1st, that was Exhibit 8, that we went over?

A. Well, I know that the Elections Department had 

given us the deadline for August 1st to submit the maps 

that we would use for the November 7th election. I am 

familiar with that.

Q. What would have happened if the map that had 

been implemented was, instead of the map that the City 

passed, the map that the Court ordered on July 30th?

A. Whatever map I'm given is the map that I work 

with. So I don't know the answer to that question.

Q. I mean, let's say that you had gotten the map 

on July 30th, when the Court issued its ruling, and you 

were told, you know -- all of this didn't happen, 

there's no appeal, they just said, "All right, that's 

the map. It's July 30th. Go forward." How would that 

have worked out for you?

A. I would have submitted it to the Elections 

Department, and it seems like since the Elections 

Department gave an August 1st deadline, that they would 

have been able to perform the reprecincting in the time 

they needed for our November election.

Q. And just to be clear, the Elections Department 

is hired to conduct elections for the City; is that 

correct?

A. I don't know if I would say hired. I know that 

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we use their services and their assistance, and they 

provide us with the support for the operations side of 

election, but they're not indemnified or anything like 

that. So they're not hired by me.

Q. What if you wanted to choose -- and I know that 

you don't want to choose someone else, but let's say you 

wanted to, could you do that?

A. I don't think it's possible -- I really 

don't -- when you look at the totality of what an 

election entails, and I don't know who would even 

provide those services.

Q. Have you ever talked to other municipalities 

that might do something other than work through their 

counties?

A. No.

Q. Do you ever discuss with municipalities outside 

of Miami-Dade County?

A. No.

MS. MCNAMARA: All right. No more 

questions for you from us. 

MR. JOHNSON: I have no questions. Read. 

(Thereupon, the reading and signing not 

being duly waived, the deposition was concluded 

at 12:59 p.m.)

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_______________________

DEPONENT

Sworn to and subscribed before me this _____ 

day of __________________, 2023.

 

_______________________

NOTARY PUBLIC

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CERTIFICATE OF OATH

STATE OF FLORIDA :

 SS

COUNTY OF MIAMI-DADE:

I, NIEVES SANCHEZ, Court Reporter, and a 

Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, do 

hereby certify that TODD HANNON, personally appeared 

before me and was duly sworn.

WITNESS my hand and official seal in the 

City of Miami, County of Miami-Dade, State of Florida, 

this 18th day of October, 2023. 

__________________________

NIEVES SANCHEZ

Notary Commission Number HH 385498

My Notary Commission expires August 11, 2027

REPORTER'S DEPOSITION CERTIFICATE

STATE OF FLORIDA :

 SS 

COUNTY OF MIAMI-DADE:

I, NIEVES SANCHEZ, Court Reporter and a Notary 

Public for the State of Florida at Large, do hereby 

certify that I was authorized to and did report the 

deposition of TODD HANNON; that a review of the 

transcript was requested; and that the transcript is a 

true and complete record of my stenographic notes. 

I further certify that I am not a relative, 

employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, 

nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' 

attorney or counsel, nor am I financially interested in 

the action.

DATED this 18th day of October, 2023.

_________________________

NIEVES SANCHEZ

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Case 1:22-cv-24066-KMM Document 166-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/29/2024 Page 122 of

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BAILEY & SANCHEZ COURT REPORTING, INC.

(305) 358-2829

October 18, 2023 

Todd Hannon

c/o Christopher N. Johnson

Gray Robinson

333 S.E. 2nd Avenue

Suite 3200

Miami, Florida 33131

RE: Grace, Inc. vs. City of Miami

Dear Mr. Hannon:

The transcript of your deposition, taken in the 

above-styled cause on October 6, 2023, is at my office 

awaiting your examination and signature. PLEASE 

TELEPHONE BEFORE COMING IN so that we may arrange a 

convenient time.

Please be advised that unless I hear from you by 

November 18, 2023, I will forward the original of your 

deposition to the deposing attorney, as though you had 

read and signed your deposition.

IN THE EVENT a copy of the transcript is being sent to 

the witness by counsel, kindly instruct the witness to 

make any changes thereto on a separate sheet of paper 

and refer to the page number and line number which 

corresponds to the change desired. DO NOT MAKE THE 

CORRECTIONS ON THE TRANSCRIPT. If you have any 

questions, please call.

Very truly yours,

NIEVES SANCHEZ

Court Reporter

cc: Caroline A. McNamara, Esq.

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ERRATA SHEET

IN RE: GRACE, INC., ET AL. vs. CITY OF MIAMI 

DEPOSITION OF TODD HANNON

TAKEN OCTOBER 6, 2023

DO NOT WRITE ON TRANSCRIPT - ENTER CHANGES HERE

PAGE # LINE# CHANGE

________________________________________

________________________________________

________________________________________

________________________________________

________________________________________

_______________________________________

_______________________________________

_______________________________________

_______________________________________

_______________________________________

_______________________________________

___________________

SIGNATURE

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