Meeting Transcript 6

Miami City Commission

March 24, 2022

Afternoon Session

Transcript of excerpt of video recording available at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTLr8f3VYKc

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1 Commissioner King: Special meeting for redistricting, March 24th, 2022.

2 Todd Hannon: Just one second Chair, we just need to flip the tape. Just one second.

3 Commissioner King: Okay.

4 Commissioner Reyes: You’re losing your touch man, you’re getting slow.

5 Commissioner King: Are you ready? Mr. City Attorney.

6 George Wysong: Yes Ma’am.

7 Commissioner King: Can you read for the record.

8 Mr. Wysong: Yes Ma’am.

9 Commissioner King: Your statement.

10 Mr. Wysong: Yes. George Wysong, Assistant City Attorney. Any person who is a lobbyist

11 pursuant to Chapter 2 Article 6 of the City Code must register with the City Clerk and comply with 

12 the related city requirements for lobbyists before appearing before the City Commission. A person 

13 may not lobby a city official, board member or staff member until registering. A copy of the Code 

14 section about lobbyists is available in the City Clerk’s office or online at www.miamigov.com.

15 Any person making a presentation, formal request or petition to the City Commission concerning 

16 real property must make the disclosures required by the City code in writing. A copy of this code, 

17 City Code section is available at the Office of the City Clerk or online at www.miamigov.com.

18 The City of Miami requires that anyone requesting action by the City Commission must disclose 

19 before the hearing, any consideration provided or committed to anyone for agreement to support 

20 or withhold objection to the requested action pursuant to City Code Section 2-8 disclosure 

21 requirement. Any documents offered to the City Commissioners that have now been provided 

22 seven days before the meeting is part of the special, of the agenda materials will be entered in the 

23 record at the City Commissioner’s discretion. In accordance with Section 2-33F&G of the City 

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1 code. The agenda, the material, for each item of the agenda is available during business hours at 

2 the City Clerk’s office and online 24 hours a day at www.miamigov.com. Any person may be 

3 heard by the City Commission through the Chair for not more than TWO minutes on any 

4 proposition before the City Commission unless modified by the Chair. Public comment will begin 

5 at approximately 2:30 pm and remain open until public comment is closed by the Chairperson.

6 Members of the public wishing to address the body may do so by submitting written comments 

7 via the online comment form. Please visit www.miamigov.com/meetinginstructions for detailed

8 instructions on how to provide public comment using the online public comment form. The 

9 comments submitted through the comment form have been and will be distributed to the elected 

10 officials and city administration throughout the day so that the elected officials can consider the 

11 comments prior to taking any action. Additionally, the online comment form will remain open 

12 during the meeting to accept comments and distribute to the elected officials up until the 

13 Chairperson closes public comments. Public comment may also be provided here at City Hall, 

14 3500 Pan American Drive, subject to any and all city rules as it may be amended. If the proposition 

15 is being continued or rescheduled the opportunity be heard may be at such a later date. When 

16 addressing the City Commissioner, the member of the public must first state his or her name, his 

17 or her address and what item will be spoken about. Any person with a disability requiring 

18 assistance auxiliary aids and services for this meeting may notify the City Clerk. The city has 

19 provided different public comments methods to indicate among others thing the public support 

20 opposition or neutrality on the item to topics to be discussed at the City Commission meeting in 

21 compliance with Section 286.0114(4)(c), Florida Statutes. The public has been given the 

22 opportunity to provide public comment during the meeting and within reasonable proximity in 

23 time before the meeting. Please note commissioners have generally been briefed by city staff and 

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1 the City Attorney on the items on the special agenda today. Anyone wishing to appeal any decision, 

2 strike that. This meeting can be viewed live on Miami TV, the City’s Facebook page, the City’s 

3 Twitter page, the City’s YouTube channel and Comcast channel 77 which broadcast will also have 

4 close captioning, thank you. 

5 Commissioner King: Thank you, Mr. City Clerk, would you please read for the record your 

6 statement.

7 Mr. Hannon: Chair, there’s nothing for me to read into the record.

8 Commissioner King: Okay, at this time, I will have the consultant present and I don’t see 

9 him. Does anybody know where the consultant is? Mmm. Here he’s coming.

10 Commissioner Russell: Dramatic entrance.

11 Commissioner King: Mm-hmm. And he’s not coming. Does he know the meeting starts at 

12 2:30?

13 Commissioner Russell: Paging Mr. De Grandy in the men’s room, paging Mr. De Grandy 

14 from the men’s room.

15 Commissioner King: Mr. Cody, good afternoon. We are awaiting you and Mr. De Grandy 

16 to provide your presentation.

17 Stephen Cody: Okay. 

18 Commissioner King: Take the presentation – welcome Mr. De Grandy. Thank you for 

19 showing up. We’re gonna have the, before the presentation? Okay, uhm while Mr. De Grandy and 

20 Mr. Cody sets up our Vice Chair is going to make a statement.

21 Commissioner Carollo: Thank you, Chair. Upon consideration and consultation, I’m 

22 informed that I am obligated by Florida law to vote on pending matters unless I have an actual 

23 conflict. I do not have a conflict nor am I aware of any real appearance of conflicts. Therefore, 

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1 consistent with my responsibilities as a City of Miami commissioner, I am participating in the 

2 redistricting legislation.

3 Commissioner King: Thank you, Vice Chair. Mr. De Grandy, are you ready to do your 

4 presentation?

5 Miguel De Grandy: Yes, ma’am.

6 Commissioner King: Thank you, you may proceed.

7 Miguel De Grandy: Good afternoon, commissioners. Or the —

8 Commissioner King: Sorry, that was my fault.

9 Miguel De Grandy: Just wanna make sure that the that the Power Point, hold on we’re 

10 having technical issues apparently, okay. Go to slide two, please.

11 Stephen Cody: Getting the beach ball of death. I don’t know it’s not behaving.

12 Miguel De Grandy: Getting the Power Point to work.

13 Stephen Cody: I have a backup. Ah there it is, slide 2 okay.

14 Miguel De Grandy: As I was saying, apart from the six public hearings, since our February 

15 25th public hearing, you’ve had each conducted a community meeting in each of your districts to 

16 hear from your constituents. So, first permit me to recap some of the discussion that occurred in 

17 the last two meeting and the directions that we were provided. At the February 25th meeting, we 

18 presented our revised plan, next slide.

19 The Commission voted 4 to 1 to make the revised plan shown on the video as the base plan 

20 for consideration of any additional changes, and therefore we have used it as the template for any 

21 amendments. Now at the February 25th meeting, the Commission deferred final action and 

22 instructed us to meet again with each commissioner to address any changes you would like to 

23 make. As instructed, we met with each of you between February 25th and the March 11th meeting.

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1 And at the March 11th meeting, we also presented revisions to the base plan as were directed by 

2 Commissioner Russell and Commissioner King. Commissioners Russell and King advocated in 

3 favor of their revisions to the base plan, and after for the lunch break Commissioner Reyes also 

4 requested an amendment to delete the area south of US 1 that had been moved to his district in the 

5 base plan. There was some discussion and debate and there were some votes taken, but there was 

6 no consensus on a particular plan. The Commission then moved to defer action on a final plan in 

7 order to consider additional changes. The Commission again directed us to meet with each 

8 commissioner and I advised that I would be preparing individual plans for each commissioner that 

9 wanted to present an option to the base plan. So, I’m not going to present those options for your 

10 consideration.

11 Beginning with District 1, Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla advised that he was in support 

12 of the base plan without any modifications. Slide 4. However, he advised he would not have an 

13 issue with moving the development called Flagler on the River back into D5. This development, 

14 which is shown on the video, has 510 residents, roughly 73% of the voting age population is 

15 Hispanic, 6.28 is Black, and 3.9 is non-Hispanic white. Now if this area was returned to D5, the 

16 overall deviation would be slightly below the 7.6 of the base plan at 7.58. However, it brings down 

17 the Black voting age population to 49.97.

18 For District 2, Commissioner Russell’s initial March 11th proposal, which is shown on this 

19 slide, restored the two area south of US 1 in the base plan back into D2. These two areas are shown 

20 in red on the map that is on the screen and have approximately 2,987 residents in total. Now, it 

21 also moves 6,980 residents from D2 to D3. From south to north, this would include the area from 

22 where US 1 meets I-95, using South Miami Avenue as the east boundary, all the way to the river 

23 on the sou– on the north. And that area again is shown in blue on the map that is on screen.

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1 But after the March 11th meeting, Commissioner Russell asked us to revise his proposed 

2 plan in order to decrease the amount of residents moved to D3 in his initial proposal. The revised 

3 plan still restores the areas south of US 1 to D2. Again, those areas are shown in red on the slide 

4 that is on screen. Additionally, it reduces the number of residence moved into D3 by approximately 

5 2,300. The reduction results in lowering the overall deviation from 9.3 in his initial plan to 7.49 in 

6 his revised plan. The total amount of residents now moved into D3 from D2 in Commissioner 

7 Russell’s revised plan, is 4,670. From south to north, this would include the area from where US

8 1 meets I-95, using South Miami Avenue again as the east boundary, all the way to SW 10th street 

9 on the north. And that area is shown in blue on the map that’s on the screen. The demographics of 

10 those residents are as follows. Hispanic voting age population is 44.6%, Black voting age 

11 population is 5.82, and white non-Hispanic is approximately 39%.

12 Now finally, Commissioner Russell’s plan accepts Commissioner King’s proposed 

13 amendment to restore the area known as the Wharf back into the D5. This area, which is shown in 

14 blue on the slide, has no population and therefore no impact on the overall deviation.

15 For District 3, Commissioner Carollo chose not to propose an amendment to the base plan.

16 For District 4, Commissioner Reyes’ plan makes the following changes to the base plan.

17 First, it accepts Commissioner King’s proposed amendment to restore the Wharf to D5. It also 

18 restores the 1,597 residents that are south of US 1 back into D2. That area is shown in red on the 

19 map that’s on the screen. Now, this causes the deviation to slightly exceed the 10% threshold, but 

20 Commissioner Reyes’ plan solves that issue by moving additional population into D3. From Alatka

21 Avenue going north, Commissioner Reyes’ plan adds an area from D2 to D3 that includes Bay 

22 Heights and continues north past Simpson Park to SW 13th Street, and that area is shown in blue.

23 This movement of an additional 2,280 residents into D3 results in an overall deviation of 8.62. The 

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1 Hispanic voting age of those residents is approximately 51%, with approximately 3% Black voting 

2 age population, and 39% non-Hispanic white.

3 For District 5, Commissioner King requested that the Wharf be restored to her district. She 

4 did not direct any additional changes to the base plan.

5 Now, as I’ve told you all on several occasions, there are thousands of ways to draw a 

6 constitutional plan. We have reviewed and analyzed each one of the alternatives and we’re of the 

7 opinion that all of them comply with the Constitution and the Voting Right Act. However, if you 

8 decide to move the Flagler on the River development into D5, we would recommend additional 

9 tweaks to the plan to bring the Black voting age population back above 50%.

10 Now as you recall, we — you had provided direction regarding the use of certain criteria

11 in developing the plan. The criteria included maintaining the core and configuration of existing 

12 districts to the extent possible, moving areas based on voter cohesion, maintaining substantial 

13 equality of population, and maintaining traditional neighborhoods whole when feasible. We are of 

14 the opinion that the base plan substantially achieves those goals. Of course, you are the policy 

15 makers and it is within your authority to either modify the criteria or promote a plan which differs 

16 from that criteria. Now again, we brought our computers, we’re prepared to make any additional 

17 changes to the plans, if directed to do so. We will review any additional changes you request and 

18 advise whether they meet legal requirements. And with that commissioners, I look forward to your 

19 discussion and debate as well as any additional direction you may wish to provide.

20 Commissioner King: Thank you. At this time, I would like to take public comments. There 

21 are no public comments? Good afternoon.

22 Linda Williams: Good afternoon, I’m Linda Williams, a longstanding Groveite, born and 

23 reared here. 3523 Charles Avenue, temporarily at 3517 Hibiscus Street. As you are aware we’ve 

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1 attended your meetings, we’ve listened, we’ve watched your maps. There are alternate maps that 

2 keep the Grove together and I ask that you all consider that highly. The people have spoken, we’ve 

3 shown up, we’ve been courteous, respectful, and we take in your thoughts, we trust your guidance, 

4 your governance of our communities, but we have spoken. I hope you’re listening, and I hope you 

5 value our participation as community, uh connected. Please, keep the Grove together. Thank you.

6 Commissioner King: Thank you.

7 John Dolson: John Dolson, 4205 Lennox Drive, Coconut Grove. First I wanna thank 

8 Commissioner Reyes for restoring the piece south of US 1 back into Coconut Grove, that was a 

9 clearly listening to the input from the citizens of the city here. Uhm I also support restoring the 

10 Wharf into Commissioner King’s district, that makes sense to me, it doesn’t involve people and 

11 was there before. I support Commissioner Russell’s plan and the modification to Commissioner 

12 King’s, we wanna keep the Grove whole, I don’t think carving up Bayside uh is is a very good 

13 idea, that’s part of the NCD and part of the Grove. But uhm people have spoken, we’ve got over 

14 2,000 petitions here, hundreds of people have spoken, we appreciate you listening to us and hope 

15 you make the right decision today. Thank you. 

16 Commissioner King: Thank you. Good afternoon.

17 Len Scinto: Hi, Len Scinto, 3091 Bird Avenue, thank you all for taking the time to keep 

18 continuously revises. I would take notice with Item 5, keeping neighborhoods together where 

19 feasible and possible. I spoke here a number of times about the spirit of the Grove and the things 

20 we do as a community in the Grove. That spirit defines the neighborhood and we talked about 

21 those areas that are trying to be excluded in the base plan is diminishing the spirit of the Grove.

22 And a neighborhood is nothing, it’s not a geographical location, it’s a spirit, and we know what 

23 that spirit is and we know how we define that neighborhood. So, I would ask you please, to keep 

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1 the Grove whole south of US 1 and vote for Commissioner Russell’s plan. Thank you.

2 Commissioner King: Thank you.

3 Debbie Dolson: Debbie Dolsen, 4205 Lennox Drive, Coconut Grove. I would like to again 

4 also thank all of you for listening to so many of us make comments about Coconut Grove and I 

5 don’t think there’s really anything else we can say that we that hasn’t been said. Clearly the 

6 residents of Coconut Grove would like to see our community stay together, I know Mr. De Grandy 

7 at the last meeting said that he didn’t think that Bay Heights was part of Coconut Grove. It is part 

8 of Coconut Grove, it’s part of the NCD, which is extremely important to the people that live here, 

9 the NC- the Neighborhood Conservation District, and that’s a huge reason to keep Coconut Grove 

10 together. I also support Commissioner King’s desire to keep the Wharf in her district where it 

11 belongs. I think that the maps shown by Commissioner Russell pretty much support what we’ve 

12 heard over the many many many times we’ve been together. So, please keep the Grove together, 

13 please keep the Wharf district in District 5. Thank you.

14 Commissioner King: Thank you.

15 Nathan Kurland: Commissioners, good morning. Nathan Kurland, 3132 Day Avenue, 

16 neighbors and friends of Coconut Grove. I was a little late in arriving today, I got robbed after 

17 filling up my tank with gas. Police officer came and said can I give him a description of the robber 

18 and I said yes, pump number 8. Having been robbed once today, I would really like to not — like 

19 to be a victim twice. Other than Commissioner Russell, we did not elect any of you but you are 

20 our representatives, and we have let you know, like Mr. De Grandy, we have appeared at five or 

21 six — Mr. De Grandy — public hearing, five, six? Six public hearings we have come before you

22 we have said leave our neighborhood alone. Not because we’re any more special than any other 

23 neighborhood, all neighborhoods are important. But this means a lot to us, and there’s no way you 

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1 don’t understand by this point how we feel. We want you to leave Coconut Grove alone. Thank 

2 you. 

3 Commissioner King: Thank you. Good afternoon.

4 Cindy Snyder: Good afternoon, my name is Cindy Snyder and I live in Coconut Grove. I 

5 am very glad to see that these other maps have been produced and had been available here at this 

6 meeting, but we haven’t gotten to see these maps prior to this meeting or to study them which is a 

7 big short coming. I hope it’s good, I would like the chance to look at it and study the different ones 

8 and I think to balance the districts would be a challenging task. The population is not even in the 

9 districts, but we shouldn’t break up neighborhoods to make the districts even, what we need to do 

10 is have representation that’s appropriate for the areas where people want to live. And some people,

11 you know, want to live along the coast, there’s probably more people who want to live along the 

12 coast then want to live inland. Also, people need to be able to, to you know, they need to be able 

13 to enjoy their areas. Anyway, that’s I would hope that we could have more time within this meeting 

14 to study those maps. So, I hope that can be taken into consideration.

15 Commissioner King: Thank you.

16 John Snyder: John Snyder, 3980 Hardie Avenue. I would like to speak in favor of 

17 Commissioner Russell’s plan for redistricting. I think that it takes into account the foremost 

18 environmental goal of Miami 21, which states the conservation goals include number one, 

19 preserving neighborhoods. While this was given the least weight in the consultant’s plan, it 

20 should’ve been given the most weight and we’re in favor of preserving neighborhoods. In addition,

21 we may need to increase the number of districts and I know that he was given the instruction to 

22 keep the number of districts at five, there had been five districts as long as I can remember. I came 

23 here in 1985 and I believe there five districts at that time and there’s still five districts, even though 

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1 the population has increased significantly. These new people that are coming deserve 

2 representation and if, if you don’t increase the number of district the the number of constituents 

3 that each commissioner has to deal with gets to be burdensome. Thank you.

4 Commissioner King: Thank you.

5 Andy Parrish: Good afternoon, Commissioner. Andy Parrish, 3940 Main Highway. You 

6 already heard about neighbors and I’ve always been a big advocate for preserving neighborhoods, 

7 but I also think preserving districts is important and I’ve watched all of you, I’ve watched 

8 Commissioner Carollo fight the traffic going through his district, I’ve seen Commissioner Reyes 

9 fight for neighborhoods and districts. Commissioner King, new at our chair, is now fighting hard 

10 for her district. So I wanna talk little bit about deference, deference used to be, and Commissioner 

11 Carollo well remembers, that each commissioner gave a lot of deference through his colleagues 

12 when their district was most affected. And in this case the district most affected is District 2. We 

13 have another one coming up, we have a vote on Melreese coming up, there’s only one 

14 commissioner and it’s his district and I would hope you’d give him deference just as I would hope 

15 you would give Commissioner Russell deference when it’s district most involved.

16 Commissioner Carollo: Are we — are we doing a trade off or?

17 Andy Powrish: No trade off.

18 Commissioner Carollo: Coconut Grove for Melreese?

19 Andy Powrish: No trade off, I’m just — I’m just watching, commissioner, the deference 

20 that used to be given to each district has maybe because of the the city’s growing so fast, that only 

21 you think now that every decision affects of the whole of the community, which it does.

22 Commissioner Carollo: You know what I think? I think from hearing from less than one 

23 quarter of a percent of the population of Coconut Grove that we should go back to running 

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1 citywide. I would have no problem with that, you know what, maybe I made a mistake when I was 

2 mayor and to have a balance here, I said to go with districts. 

3 Andy Powrish: I don’t think you’ve ever made a mistake, commissioner. 

4 Commissioner Carollo: No, no, I’m human, I make mistakes. So, maybe that’s what we 

5 need to do. Put a referendum, a charter amendment, that we go back and run citywide, like I did 

6 and won many, many times. So that everyone gets represented, we wouldn’t have to worry about 

7 districts anymore. Now, if it happens, then you end up with five Hispanics, then don’t cry.

8 Andy Powrish: I don’t cry, I’m just, and thank you for the time. 

9 Commissioner King: Thank you.

10 Andy Powrish: And I do hope that deferencething will layer – layer into your consideration 

11 today because District 2 is the one that’s most affected. Thank you.

12 Commissioner King: Thank you. Good afternoon, go ahead.

13 Tina-Gaye Bernard: Good afternoon, Tina-Gaye Bernard, 1871 NW South River Drive, 

14 Unit 1901, Miami, Florida 33125. At the last meeting on March 11th, there was council member 

15 that remarked about the race card and not seeing race and words are really important. So, I think 

16 we should just review a few. In terms of racism, that is something that’s extreme, it’s 

17 psychologically and economically systemic. Discrimination, which is one level under, is subjective 

18 and it’s situationally intentional. And then there’s bias, it’s general, it can be subtle, obtuse yet 

19 deep-seated and mute even, until it plays out in shockingly dark ways unbeknownst to prior 

20 circumstance. For council members to assert that racism is not at all at play, is obtuse. The all21 around bias of this redistricting of this redistricting is undeniable. The fact that meetings have been 

22 extended, maybe some in secret, so far as to, yesterday it seemed like possibly, suppress public 

23 comment is discriminatory because it’s situationally intentional. One key reason for this 

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1 redistricting is to quell the voice of the active and very advocate Black community, and have the 

2 population increase electoral votes for politicians with the latitude to possibly and quite frankly 

3 marginalize their interest. There’s an inextricable link between race, property, and voting that we 

4 cannot deny. You had Tulsa, Oklahoma in 1921, Wilmington, North Carolina in 1898, and even 

5 here in Miami, Railroad Shop in 1947. It’s clear that this redistricting is a modern day attempt 

6 similar to that. The race card is most certainly being played —

7 Commissioner King: Thank you.

8 Tina-Gaye Bernard: As there are no attempts to divide —

9 Commissioner King: Thank you —

10 Tina-Gaye Bernard: Surfside, Bal Harbor or Brickell. 

11 Brigitte Molitor: Good afternoon, my name is Brigitte Molitor, I live at 2620 Hilola Street, 

12 I’ve been living in the Grove for 30 years. I think we can maybe agree that all the commissioners 

13 have done a great job in their own districts. That we know their residents, they know the concerns, 

14 they know how to represent them, they know how to fight for them, they know what is important 

15 to them and what to do, what is best for the residents. And I think that everyone is passionate about 

16 it too. If that is true then it appears to me pretty logical to me that it should be left to Commissioner 

17 Russell to work out a plan that is the best for the his own district. He’s the one impacted the most 

18 for the Grove, he knows the people in the Grove, he knows the very specific concerns, all the issues 

19 and his is very diverse district. He has been dealing with us for years. To all the other 

20 commissioners, how many residents have to come up here for you all to understand the splitting 

21 of the Grove is really a bad idea. Have you heard one single person come up here that spoke in 

22 favor for the original base plan, I have not heard anyone? That should tell you something. The 

23 people that spoke up against dividing the Grove will not go away, they simply cannot be silent, 

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1 they’re very passionate people as you know, and they keep fighting for what is the right thing. So, 

2 please do the right thing. Say yes to Commissioner Russell’s plan. Thank you.

3 Commissioner King: Thank you, good afternoon.

4 Lucian Ferster: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you again for your patience and 

5 hearing us out. My name Lucian Ferster, I live at 4038 Crawford Avenue in Coconut Grove and 

6 been there since 1983. I support keeping Coconut Grove as one community, I support the Russell 

7 plan if you will. I support it for several reasons, most of them have been covered here but there’s 

8 two things I want to say. One is there’ve been insinuations that this is racially motivated, that this 

9 is some form of gerrymandering. I don’t know if that is true or not, I don’t know what’s in the 

10 hearts of this commissioner, but the appearance of that delegitimates our city government. It 

11 delegitimates your effectiveness in the minds of the voters. You don’t need to go there; the city 

12 doesn’t need this perceived stain. A second thing I wanna talk about is the reason. I’ve said this 

13 before, I’m sorry if I’m a boring old guy, but no one has given a reason why the Coconut Grove 

14 should be split. I understand the overriding reasons why there’s redistricting but why what’s been 

15 done or proposed to being done there are no compelling articulated reasons. Give us reasons, we’re 

16 reasonable citizens, you’re reasonable commissioners, but it hasn’t happened. This is a policy 

17 decision, nothing more, nothing less. You folks are here for policy, thank you.

18 Commissioner King: Thank you. 

19 Lucian Ferster: Policy is routed, in reasons —

20 Commissioner King: Thank you. 

21 Lucian Ferster: Policy without reasons is a whim.

22 Commissioner King: Thank you.

23 Lucian Ferster: Thank you.

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1 Commissioner King: Good afternoon.

2 Cynthia Shelley: Hi. My name is Cynthia Shelley and I’ve been here since 1980 in the 

3 same house owned by myself since 1980. And before that I moved 31 times, with my Air Force 

4 parents, I like being in the same house, I like being in the Grove, I love the fact that we’re a 

5 community and that we join together and I’ve known this people for such a long time, I don’t want 

6 things to change. And it’s lovely that the Grove the Grove is lovely being what it is, I don’t 

7 understand like he just said, I don’t understand why we need to come in and split a section of the 

8 Grove, put it up into another area. When our most populated area is to the north and I believe 

9 Commissioner Russell’s proposal shows that and is a pretty good proposal at least it doesn’t come 

10 into the Grove, takes sections out and that proposal makes me suspicious and makes me think 

11 there’s a hidden agenda because I don’t understand like he just said, this man just said. I don’t 

12 understand why we need to come in and take out a section when the northern part, north eastern 

13 part of zone 2 is more populated and more likely to be more populated. Thank you, I appreciate 

14 your time. 

15 Commissioner King: Thank you.

16 Barabara Lange: My name is Barbara Lange, I live at 3901 Braganza Avenue, Coconut 

17 Grove, I lived in Coconut Grove for about 40 years and the first thing I like to say is I’d like to 

18 thank Commissioner Reyes, I believe he took his se- he gave back the central Grove to Coconut 

19 Grove and I’m just gonna make it short and ask you to vote for Ken Russell’s plan. Thank you 

20 very much.

21 Commissioner King: Thank you. 

22 Female Speaker: Good afternoon Commissioner King, commissioners, City Manager 

23 Noriega, public, uh, wasn’t planning to come here today but I understood from someone word of 

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1 mouth in the last few days that no one from my area of the Grove has actually been here to speak 

2 up. And I live in Crystal Court in North Grove in the area called Natoma Manner which is part of 

3 the area in contention here. And I will tell you that I identify with North Grove, I connect to the 

4 village of the Grove, to shoreline of the Grove, that is my area. I’ve gone door to door in the last 

5 few days, I’ve spoken to my immediate neighbors, no one was aware that this was going on in this 

6 neighborhood and we’re all up in arms that we hadn’t been represented. So, I came to be a voice, 

7 I brought my neighbor with me Marlene, we live on Crystal Court. There’s at least five other 

8 people that live on my street that are like shocked to find out this is going on and I can tell you no 

9 one that I spoke to is in favor of it and we’re all pretty upset about it. I don’t see any reason in our 

10 interest to do split and I think that Commissioner Russell’s plan represents our interest as usual, 

11 thank you, Commissioner Russell and I don’t see how these other plans represent my interest at 

12 all. And with all due respect, Mr. Carollo, you know there may be a conflict of interest from what 

13 I’ve heard, but I respect your statement and I’ll assume that you mean well, but in the meantime I 

14 hope that you all at least hear what we’re having to say here and that my area Natoma Heights 

15 actually you know our interests is to stay in one Grove. So, thank you.

16 Commissioner King: Thank you.

17 Bob Deresz: Good afternoon everyone, my name is Bob Deresz, I live at 200 SE 15th Road, 

18 I’ve been a resident of District 2 for 52 years. I believe that the only reason to move Black residents 

19 up north in the US 1 would be to dilute the value of their vote and their views. I think that’s a bad,

20 I believe I just heard the commissioner belittle the small amount of people here and who we 

21 represent. And and the suggestion that we get rid of all the commissioners just have — all the 

22 districts is is also just a lessoning and diluting the vote of all the Blacks and all the whites, non23 Hispanics, in this city and that’s what they — and I liked Mr. Commissioner’s suggestion and that 

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1 the residents north of north Miami I think they’re Republicans anyway. So, ship them up north.

2 Thank you. 

3 Commissioner Carollo: Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.

4 Commissioner King: Wait, wait, wait. 

5 Commissioner Carollo: Who did he say to ship out? I just wanted to hear that. Who were 

6 the people that’s supposed to be shipped out? I didn’t understand.

7 Commissioner King: Republicans. 

8 Commissioner Carollo: Mr. Clerk, who did he say that needed to be shipped out somewhere 

9 else, I didn’t hear it. 

10 Mr. Hannon: I believe he referenced a political party, one party in particular.

11 Commissioner Carollo: What, what party did he say, I didn’t hear. 

12 Commissioner Reyes: I heard Republican. 

13 Mr. Hannon: The gentleman can correct me if I’m wrong, but he said the Republican. 

14 Commissioner Carollo: Oh okay.

15 Commissioner King: Go ahead, good afternoon.

16 Diane Fitzsimmons: My name is Diane Fitzsimmons, I live at 2512 Abaco Avenue, 

17 Coconut Grove. I have been living in the same house for over 40 years, know my neighbors very 

18 closely. I was amazed at the first base map which I was totally immediately opposed to, where my 

19 neighbors three blocks on one side of me were gonna be removed to another district, and my 

20 neighbors six blocks to the other side of me, cause I’m in that little finger that kind of sticks out. I 

21 am really opposed to any changes and to breaking up Coconut Grove, we are a community and we 

22 ask you commissioners, we are all asking you to keep this community together and give us an 

23 identity together which we’ve always had. And so I am very much in favor, 100% in favor of 

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1 Commissioner Russell’s plan and I would like to see the Grove maintained as a community and as 

2 a spirit that we have. Thank you.

3 Commissioner King: Thank you.

4 Andrea Gonzalez: Good afternoon Commissioner, my name is Andrea Gonzalez, 3622 

5 Solana Road, Miami Florida, even though we’re known as Coconut Grove. We’ve been called a 

6 lot of things, Coconut Grove residents gets called a lot of things, we know that, and one of the 

7 things that we are is passionate. We’re the ones showing up at these meetings, we’re the ones that 

8 consistently come here to try to protect our community and that’s something that cannot be denied.

9 Today everyone speaking is from Coconut Grove, at the other meetings everybody that speaking 

10 is Coconut Grove. We know what we want, we know what we can accomplish and one of the 

11 things that’s frustrating is you’ve had plans, you have multiple plans. And every time it’s let’s 

12 pound us. Commissioner Reyes, I thank you, I thank you for that gesture, it was absolutely brilliant 

13 as I’ve always said, District 4 should always have had Golden Pines. But we’re here we keep 

14 coming in with the same comments over and over, man if you haven’t gotten our message yet.

15 You know, let’s, let’s do the right thing, there’s other plans out there this can be worth any old 

16 way we’ve already seen it, so all we ask as Coconut Grove residence is keep the Grove together.

17 You know what we’ve been together for a long long time, and I think we are we’re just passionate 

18 about our community and this is who we are. Here every day, thank you.

19 Commissioner King: Thank you.

20 Fleta Stamen: Good afternoon, my name is Fleta Stamen, I’m at 3078 Aviation Avenue 

21 and I wanna thank everyone for being here today. I would like to support Commissioner Russell’s 

22 plan, I’m a native of Miami, Florida and I’ve lived in the Grove for over 30 years, I know what a 

23 community is and neighborhoods are. And no offence to the committee or the consultants, I just 

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1 don’t see how the first plan presented February 7th makes sense for any neighborhoods, so I’m 

2 asking you to please, you know, look at all the people here today, we’re here to say we’re 

3 passionate, I think you all can see that. This is not personal against any commissioners, it’s simply 

4 to say we’re a community, please let us stay together. I think that’s the objective of many of the 

5 laws that are applicable and I don’t think the plan that’s been proposed achieves any of the 

6 suggested redistricting essentials put in your Attorney General opinion, I think it’s 1101 if you all 

7 wanna look back at that. But anyway, I ask you to please keep the Grove together and thank you. 

8 Commissioner King: Thank you.

9 Ozie Williams: Good afternoon, my name is Ozie Williams, I live at 3021 New York Street, 

10 I’ve been in the Grove since 1957. I’ve been in the house that I’m living in here now 3021 for 57 

11 years, please keep the Grove one Grove, thank you.

12 Commissioner King: Thank you.

13 Sameer Mehta: Madam Chairwoman and dear commissioners, I’m Sameer Mehta, I’m a 

14 cardiologist, we live in 185 Shore Drive South in Bay Heights. From — and I state this absolutely 

15 respectfully to all of you — from everything that we have read and researched, we do not see how 

16 the redistricting is going to help us. But one thing which we are absolutely certain about and that’s 

17 why we are all here, is that there is a real possibility it’s going to bring down the prices of our 

18 homes. So, it’s our plea and I hope you’ll do the right thing. Thank you. 

19 Commissioner King: Thank you. Good afternoon. 

20 Commissioner Reyes: Why’s it gonna bring—

21 Commissioner Carollo: I’m curious why is it going bring the value of your homes. 

22 Sameer Mehta: I didn’t hear you?

23 Commissioner Carollo: I’m curious as to why will it bring the values of anybody’s home.

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1 Sameer Mehta: I think a home listed, my home 185 Shore Drive South, Coconut Grove has 

2 a definitely better value than 185 Shore Drive South, Little Havana.

3 Commissioner Carollo: Oh.

4 Sameer Mehta: I truly don’t think your explanation, I think it’s insulting to all of us here, 

5 your expression, this is a known fact, we have researched it, we have spoken to many people and 

6 the other mistake is none of you have taken, bothered to explain to us your reasons and all of the 

7 reasons we find is all political, better meant for you, it does nothing to the homeowners.

8 Commissioner King: Thank you. Thank you.

9 Commissioner Carollo: Chair, one, one more question to the gentleman. Don’t matter what 

10 district you’re in, your address is still gonna be your address and it’s still gonna be Bay Heights.

11 Not Little Havana —

12 Sameer Mehta: It doesn’t it doesn’t, that’s not the complete —

13 Commissioner Carollo: How, how can that affect you? We’re still one city. But when I ran 

14 —

15 Sameer Mehta: My my address will not be 185 Shore Drive South.

16 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, it’s still the same address.

17 Sameer Mehta: No.

18 Commissioner Reyes: It’s still gonna be there. 

19 Sameer Mehta: At the moment it is 185 Shore Drive South, Coconut Grove. That will not 

20 remain that way.

21 Commissioner Carollo: And that would remain that way, sir. What what is gonna change 

22 that?

23 Sameer Mehta: Not not on the basis of all the information we have found. 

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1 Commissioner Carollo: Then —

2 Commissioner King: Okay.

3 Commissioner Carollo: You have gotten false information 

4 Commissioner King: Thank you, we’re gonna move on.

5 Sameer Mehta: If my information is false then the information of a lot of residents is false, 

6 which only means that you have not done your job to clarify it.

7 Commissioner King: Thank you.

8 Commissioner Carollo: No, sir. 

9 Sameer Mehta: Thank you

10 Commissioner King: Thank you.

11 Commissioner Carollo: So, it’s all our fault no matter what. 

12 Commissioner King: Good afternoon.

13 Brad Brown: Chair King, honorable commissioners, my name is Brad Brown, and I’m the 

14 secretary of the South Dade Branch of the NAACP, which as our president told you last week, is 

15 responsible for Miami south of Flagler.

16 Daniella Pierre: And good afternoon Commission, thank you so much, I am Daniella

17 Pierre, the President of Miami-Dade Branch of the NAACP, and we stand in support with the 

18 community to keep the Grove together and we also stand in support with the South Dade Branch 

19 of the NAACP.

20 Brad Brown: We have communicated with you four times and I don’t wanna take your –

21 much of your time, but to say that it really looks possible to be able to have a strong District 5 and 

22 keep the strength of the West Grove within one Grove and we urge you to reach that conclusion 

23 today. Thank you. 

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1 Commissioner King: Thank you. 

2 Commissioner Carollo: I’m confused with something, if they can explain it to me. Sir, 

3 ma’am, can you come back, I don’t know if I’m confused in something or maybe you are, but let 

4 me stick this somewhere else so I can see people. Thank you. We’ll get it to you before you go, 

5 Chair.

6 Commissioner King: Okay.

7 Commissioner Carollo: Make sure nobody takes it. Are you thinking, or has it been 

8 suggested to you, that somehow in the latest plans that have been discussed, that the Black Grove 

9 was being diluted, divided? Is that what you’re saying or thinking?

10 Brad Brown: The West Grove —

11 Commissioner Carollo: No, the Black Grove. There are two different versions, see. When 

12 I was a little boy that my parents moved me from Chicago, where I learned my politics from D 

13 Mayor Daley, and I was one of his pets, yes. I went and played football, Coral Gables High, cause 

14 even though I lived in Miami, that’s where I was supposed to go to, with Neal Colzie from the 

15 Grove, Ralph Ortega and others, these guys, Dunn, they all went to the NFL. I wasn’t as big as 

16 they were even though I was fast so I took another route. They were still my friends for many 

17 years. And the Black Grove is what was known, there was no such thing as the West Grove. The 

18 West Grove all of a sudden now is being used in particularly in this issue to try to cloudy, cloud 

19 what the Black Grove is. So let’s go with what it was known for many years, the Black Grove.

20 What – are you suggesting that we are looking to divide the Black Grove? And I’m asking that, a 

21 fair question.

22 Daniella Pierre: Yeah, so we’re suggesting that you keep it together as has been mentioned 

23 across the board from all of the meetings that we have heard and from the input that we’ve received.

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1 Commissioner Carollo: Can you speak in the mic ma’am, so that you can be heard better.

2 If you could. 

3 Brad Brown: My understanding is back in segregation there was a basically a legal 

4 boundary that defined the Black Grove as it did so many areas in Dade County. 

5 Commissioner Carollo: You’re right —

6 Brad Brown: More recently, the city has defined an area called the West Grove which 

7 basically includes much of the Black – what was traditionally the Black Grove.

8 Commissioner Carollo: Well the city hasn’t come up with a lot of those, west, east, north, 

9 south, it’s people in real estate mainly, for their own purpose. Now, when the original plan was 

10 submitted by Mr. De Grandy, there were a couple of streets that used to be part of the old Black 

11 Grove, but it’s still – there were some of the original Black families living there. Sadly a lot of 

12 these streets now have the McMansions and they’re all transplants. So, what we did here from the 

13 dais, this Commission instructed Mr. De Grandy to take those streets out and to only go with the 

14 other side, on Bird, that was never, never, never, never part of the Black Grove.

15 We’re living in 2022, we’re not living in the days of segregation, of Jim Crow, that Blacks 

16 have to live in a certain area and they force you, they can’t move from there. There ain’t a single 

17 street probably in anywhere in Miami or a single neighborhood that doesn’t have some percent of 

18 African American, Black people because we’re not living in the days of segregation or Jim Crow.

19 Therefore, I don’t care what block you get in Miami you’re gonna have X amount of people of 

20 color that live there. Now maybe they’re not all gonna be of Bahamian decent, they might not all 

21 be from Georgia or the Carolinas like many African Americans move from those places into 

22 Miami, including the Black Grove and Overtown and Liberty City. Maybe you’re gonna find some 

23 that are Black Haitians or Black Cubans or Black Puerto Ricans or Black Dominicans or Blacks 

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1 from many other Hispanic countries. But nevertheless, they’re Black and their DNA tells you that 

2 they’re Black.

3 So, we made sure that the traditional, the original Black Grove was kept intact. And sadly 

4 those for their own reasons and purpose kept putting the lie, that we had included it. But then they 

5 changed it, they weren’t calling the Black Grove anymore, now it was the West Grove that it got 

6 changed. So, I wanna assure you, both of you particularly, I think you’re honorable people, I think 

7 you work hard, and you believe in what you’re trying to do, that this Commission has kept the 

8 Black Grove together and that the small triangle that it had put out for District 4 that only had, I

9 believe, close to 1,600 people. Yes, they’d had 114 that were of African American decent, I don’t 

10 know how many of those were Haitian or Hispanic African Americans. But that was not part of 

11 the Black Grove. And in fact if you go across the US 1 and that Latin area, that District 2 had for 

12 decades? There are more people of African American background in that piece than the 114 that 

13 are in that little sliver that now is called the West Grove. And why? Because of what I said, we’re 

14 not living in the days of segregation. African Americans have a right, just like anyone as free 

15 people, to move and live anywhere they want to. And that’s why you’re not going to find a single 

16 street in Miami that doesn’t have some people of color. And certainly I think we will be in 

17 agreement that that’s what we want correct?

18 Brad Brown: Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

19 Commissioner Carollo: Thank you, sir. 

20 Brad Brown: And I appreciate your comments. However, the Black community in the 

21 Grove is a unique community of interest with historic roots.

22 Commissioner Carollo: I agree.

23 Brad Brown: And it has its churches in the community, those for example, African 

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1 American who let’s say live in Pinecrest. They don’t necessarily go to church in Pinecrest, they 

2 may go to church in Coconut Grove —

3 Commissioner Carollo: Because many used to live and moved out. 

4 Brad Brown: Because there’s a lot of our members who are in Coconut Grove, but there’s 

5 a lot of our members outside of Coconut Grove that identify with Coconut Grove, there are 

6 members of the Carver Alumni Association and they look very strongly to being active within the 

7 Grove and the Grove is a unique community of interest that has suffered from destabilization as 

8 people have been forced to move away for various economic reasons that they can’t maintain 

9 themselves in the Grove. And there have been some significant efforts to try to build some effort 

10 for people with varying incomes to still live within the Grove. And that —

11 Commissioner Carollo: I won’t argue with that —

12 Brad Brown: And that community of interest is important to stay together and to — and it 

13 gets a lot of its influence by being very active in the Coconut Grove neighborhood body and then 

14 they influence a larger body and gain support that enables them to come before this Commission 

15 and achieve that maintenance of that historic community. It’s not the only one, we’ve got West 

16 Perrine, we’ve got Richmond Heights —

17 Commissioner Carollo: Sure, South Miami Heights.

18 Brad Brown: We’re all scattered through Dade County. There are historic communities 

19 that many people who live in them and who lived in them, as well as outside, want to have together. 

20 Commissioner Carollo: Sure, but again what I wanna fully emphasize to you: that 

21 traditional African American community made up of Bahamian Blacks and other that came from 

22 some of the southern states, have been kept together. Not one inch of that community has been 

23 broken up, not one inch.

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1 Commissioner King: Thank you.

2 Brad Brown: Okay, thank you.

3 Commissioner Carollo: Thank you.

4 Commissioner King: Sir.

5 Alfredo Cardona: Madam Chair, Commissioners, good afternoon. My name is Alfredo 

6 Cardona, I’ve been here in The Grove since 2005 and I am at 3092 Lime Court. I strongly urge 

7 you to keep the Grove together, as I hear all of the people here, one of the most moving things is 

8 really the ides of a community. Community is keep neighborhoods together, successful 

9 neighborhoods makes successful cities. Many cities in the U.S. are trying to rebuild 

10 neighborhoods, I urge you to keep our neighborhood together. It makes a difference to me, makes 

11 a difference to us. Thank you

12 Commissioner King: Thank you. Good afternoon

13 Peter McGrath: Hi, good afternoon, my name is Peter McGrath, lived in the Grove for three

14 decades, we’ve raised sons here, grandsons etcetera. I live at 3750 Kent Court in Coconut Grove.

15 I strongly am in favor of Ken Russell’s plan but I’d also like to cede the balance of time to Bernie.

16 Tina-Gaye Bernard: Thank you so much. So, very quickly, thank you Commissioner 

17 Carollo for asking that question because it’s important for it to be addressed so let me just do that 

18 very quickly, high level on the time that we have. If you’re asking why there is concern in terms 

19 of the impact to the Black community, I’d say there are three big things that we can take a look at 

20 visually that probably everyone here can attest to. So, the first among them is that there was a 

21 promise of a central business district, business district to be placed on Grand Avenue. As well, the 

22 historic preservation of the Bahamian-style homes, and as you know, all you have to do is drive 

23 around and what you beginning to see is an out price, not only impacting property values which 

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1 residents cannot pay, but also the newer style architecture that you’re starting to see which is 

2 changing the character of the neighborhood. And the last piece being that there was a promise of 

3 community-centered affordable housing programs, which you know aren’t happening. So, this 

4 reason why it’s concerning is, there is no reason based on history that we should be believe that a 

5 piece of that neighborhood going to a different district where the people who are Black 

6 homeowners are, that their interest will necessarily be represented.

7 Commissioner Carollo: But didn’t you hear me.

8 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Ma’am.

9 Commissioner Carollo: I said not an inch.

10 Tina-Gaye Bernard: You asked the question.

11 Commissioner Carollo: I said not an inch of that community’s going to another district.

12 Tina-Gaye Bernard: Right, but you asked the question.

13 Commissioner Carollo: Not an inch.

14 Tina-Gaye Bernard: Okay.

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Ma’am can you repeat your address?

16 Commissioner Carollo: You purposely wanna confuse it to try to —

17 Tina-Gaye Bernard: I don’t wanna purposely do anything.

18 Commissioner Carollo: Carry your narrative. There’s not an inch of that traditional Black 

19 community —

20 Tina-Gaye Bernard: Is there an inch of any of the three things that I’ve said that have been 

21 addressed?

22 Commissioner Carollo: Well, you’re talking about something different, okay.

23 Tina-Gaye Bernard: Okay.

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1 Commissioner Carollo: It’s got nothing to do with redistricting. What I’m talking about is, 

2 that the area, the sliver, the other side of Bird to US 1, that is not, never has been, part of the Black 

3 Grove, never, never.

4 Commissioner King: Thank you, we’re gonna move forward.

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Madam Chair, can we get, I need the lady’s name and 

6 address again.

7 Helmut Albrecht: Am I on next.

8 Commissioner King: Yes, you are.

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Ma’am can you repeat your name and address.

10 Commissioner King: Todd could give it to you.

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: What is it Todd.

12 Mr. Hannon: Tina-Gaye Bernard.

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay, what’s the address.

14 Mr. Hannon: 1871 NW South River Drive.

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay, you live in the building, she lives right in the 

16 building next to mine. I live in 1861 NW South River Drive. So you’re my neighbor. And I’m your 

17 commissioner. You’re welcome.

18 Commissioner King: Sir, go ahead.

19 Helmut Albrecht: Commissioners —

20 Commissioner Carollo: She go Melendez?

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Probably. 

22 Commissioner King: Go ahead, sir.

23 Helmut Albrecht: Commissioners, thank you for holding this meeting. My name is Helmut 

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1 Albrecht, I live at 3350 SW 27th Avenue and I moved to the Coconut Grove in 2009 as Dave Barry 

2 would say, you have moved here from the United States but I moved here for a reason. I had 

3 checked out all the other parts of.

4 Commissioner Carollo: I’m sorry we will give you the extra times. As who said.

5 Helmut Albrecht: Dave Barry.

6 Commissioner Carollo: Who?

7 Helmut Albrecht: Dave Barry.

8 Commissioner Carollo: Oh the comedian.

9 Helmut Albrecht: Yeah, that guy.

10 Commissioner Carollo: Okay well, I thought you were going to say Carl Hiaasen too.

11 Helmut Albrecht: Bring some levity to the meeting.

12 Commissioner Carollo: I know, I was gonna say, make sure you spell his name right also.

13 Helmut Albrecht: Will do.

14 Commissioner Carollo: Dave, God bless.

15 Helmut Albrecht: Dave Barry, anyway I live in the Grove since 2009 and I came here for 

16 a reason. I checked out all the parts of Miami and decided the Grove is the best community to live 

17 in. So, I want to keep it that way and I urge you to vote for keeping the Grove together. Let me 

18 make one point, I live in a high-rise building, none of the people that I talked there support the 

19 diving up the Grove. None of our friends living in the Grove want the Grove to be divided up. So, 

20 it’s not the will of the people and this is democracy, so I urge you, listen to the people, do not 

21 divide up the Grove, vote for the Russell plan. Thank you very much.

22 Commissioner King: Thank you. Good afternoon.

23 Karen Ryan-Young: Hello, my name is Karen Ryan-Young, I’ve owned a property in 

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1 Coconut Grove since 1967 and I’m very much in favor of Commissioner Russell’s plan because 

2 obviously it would keep me in the Grove. I’ve considered myself one of the Groveite types and I 

3 love our trees, I love our historic buildings and it makes me sad to over the years see how much 

4 has changed the historic buildings are torn down. The most recent one was on Lincoln Avenue, 

5 high rises every time I see a crane, I wanna cry because there’s just more and more density, more 

6 and more traffic but I still love the Grove. The Bay hasn’t changed much, at least on the surface.

7 So, I urge you to keep the Grove intact and by the way, the West Grove I think maybe, it’s called 

8 the West Grove now because the prices have gone up and so it sounds better to, I live in the West 

9 Grove than I live in the Black Grove.

10 Commissioner Carollo: Karen, thank you for being honest, I was just going to say that.

11 Karen Rayne Young: But I wanna.

12 Commissioner Carollo: This is why the realtors came up with the West Grove, so they 

13 don’t have to say Black because then with the new transplants, they sell those big houses, they are 

14 afraid that they won’t pay us much.

15 Karen Ryan-Young: They were the first residents here in Miami before the Miami became 

16 a city, it was the Coconut Grove and Ralph Munroe and all those people that came here by sailboat 

17 from the Bahamas. So, it’s a part of the history and I hate to see it going away but I want to say 

18 thank you Commissioner Carollo, cause I’ve enjoy your pool at José Martí and I hope someday 

19 that the Virrick Park pool will become usable again because I like to swim. Anyway, thank you.

20 Commissioner King: Thank you.

21 Commissioner Carollo: But can I say this to you. We approved, all of us up here, the monies 

22 for that pool. So, all of us, even those, you know, that represent another district, otherwise Boy 

23 Wonder could not have done it by himself.

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1 Commissioner King: Good afternoon.

2 Alexandra Escudero: Good afternoon, my name is Alexandra Escudero, I live on Bay 

3 Heights, 89 Bay Heights Drive. I’m here to oppose to the division of the Grove. I bought my house 

4 in 2002, my two kids were born in at Mercy Hospital, my kids go to the schools in the Grove, we 

5 try to teach the kids to live in a community, to love their neighbors and by dividing the Grove 

6 you’re doing totally the opposite what we trying to teach our kids. I don’t think it’s right and I’m 

7 asking you to please do not divide the Grove, we do not divide families. Thank you.

8 Commissioner King: Thank you. Good afternoon.

9 Kathy Suarez: Hi, I’m Kathy Suarez, I live at 4035 Battersea Road in Coconut Grove. I’m 

10 for keeping the Grove together and do I understand that now the little bit of West Grove is being 

11 moved to US 1 and Virginia and Shipping and all of those streets are back in District 2. Is that, did 

12 you all agree on that, Mr. Russell, and that the back part by Wendy’s and Day and Shipping, all 

13 that comes back to your district, is that correct?

14 Commissioner Russell: This body has not voted on it yet.

15 Kathy Suarez: They’ve not voted on it yet but.

16 Commissioner King: That’s one of the plans.

17 Kathy Suarez: That’s a plan.

18 Commissioner King: That’s a plan.

19 Kathy Suarez: Okay, so with that being said. I’m all for keeping the Grove together but 

20 there are people that have chosen to move and they’ve made money moving, they have the right 

21 to retire to Georgia if they so choose but there’s also people that serve on some of the boards that 

22 have bought property for 10 and $20,000 and tore down old houses and built properties and sold 

23 them and the pool has been closed for two summers, it’s gonna be three. A 7 or $8 million pool is 

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1 not what the park manager asked for and that’s not gonna happen until everybody’s gone that looks 

2 like the community and they not gonna be able to use the pool cause they not gonna have that 

3 33133 ZIP code. The other thing is, is that the West Grove is redlined by the City Commission’s 

4 CRA map, it’s got a red border on it. We couldn’t even be respectful enough to put it in blue or 

5 yellow and we’re building a hotel and single-family properties behind the playhouse. Versus 

6 building on Grand Avenue that looks like a war zone. Calle Ocho even in its worst days didn’t 

7 look like Grand Avenue. Grand Avenue doesn’t look grand, put the hotel on Grand Avenue and 

8 let’s build some single-family houses for some people that can afford to be homeowners that are 

9 legacy West Groveites.

10 Commissioner King: Thank you.

11 Kathy Suarez: So.

12 Commissioner Reyes: Madam Chair may I ask a question because maybe I’m learning 

13 something. You claim that the zip code is gonna change from 33133 because that’s —

14 Cathy Swerez: No, no, no that’s not what I’m intimating at all. The people that have been 

15 displaced will not be able to use the new pool because they don’t live in the 33133.

16 Commissioner Reyes: Oh okay.

17 Kathy Suarez: But they won’t be, they’ll have to pay like a normal person, if that’s even 

18 allowed and that’s is not a community pool. That’s not what I meant at all and I wasn’t referring 

19 to.

20 Commissioner Reyes: And I wanna clarify this also. Every single pool that is in one every 

21 one of our parks, they are public and any, doesn’t matter what your zip code is, you can use it.

22 Kathy Suarez: I understand but I’m just saying that if you live in the community and you 

23 have like a discount. You can get pool passes and if you have kids and stuff. There are incentives 

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1 if you actually live there, cause that’s always been the case was there a pool and it’s the only pool 

2 that’s only open in the summer also. So, that’s all I was saying, I wasn’t inferring that they can’t 

3 come there. That’s not what I meant at all that it was that. Thank you.

4 Commissioner Russell: Madam Chair, brief clarification, I apologize. 

5 Commissioner King: Okay. 

6 Commissioner Russell: The Virrick Park pool is groundbreaking next month, it will be 

7 completed by next May, it will be open all year round, thank you commissioners for the funding.

8 Commissioner King: Thank you. Thank you, good afternoon sir.

9 Jihad Rasheed: Good after commission. My name Jihad Rasheed, I live at 2983 

10 Washington Street for the last 30 years I’ve been in service to making Coconut Grove a better 

11 place to be particularly.

12 Commissioner Carollo: More than 30 years, I thought it was 40. I remember you longer 

13 than that.

14 Jihad Rasheed: I know when we go back a long time and it’s really difficult here to express 

15 myself as at this stage of the game this is being deliberated for some time now and I’ve mentioned 

16 in my last presentation about my civic lessons. About government for the people by the people and 

17 I just want the commission in itself to get along in the sandbox because what I’ve gleaned, and 

18 free to correct me cause respectfully and we can’t respectfully disagree and I want to have 

19 maintained the same relationship. At this point I want to speak very strongly about the will of the 

20 people and government for the people by the people. I’ve heard feedback from the commission 

21 about things that could benefit their district and issues between among themselves, playing in the 

22 sandbox will and the voices of people have been loud and clear and firm. 99% of the time we 

23 accept the will of the commission, we advance you there but keep in mind, government for the 

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1 people by the people. This community has said and mandated and urged you to just leave it alone 

2 and then we have a commissioner has come up with a plan that I understand that mollifies 

3 everybody’s point. And so this is so at the heart of what we are and what we’re being. I urge this 

4 commission to do what we tell you to do, do what we ask you to do. We advance you here not be 

5 our monarchs, but be our legislators and we can’t get what we want here, then we have to go to 

6 the judicial branch to get what we should get from our legislators. Our legislators should hear our 

7 voices. Thank you.

8 Commissioner King: Thank you. Good afternoon.

9 Elena Carpenter: Elena Carpenter, 1660 South Bayshore Court, Coconut Grove, Florida. I 

10 wrote this letter to the editor for the Miami Herald but apparently, they didn’t find our redistricting 

11 process to be as important as the fact that Lolita now, on the front page, does private performances.

12 I’m just gonna read you a couple of paragraphs because at the end you know, we want one Grove.

13 But this is the important part. As a member of the original 1997 blue ribbon panel that crafted my 

14 Miami’s first single member districts, I learned the importance of active civic engagement in our 

15 city’s future. Traditional redistricting criteria as previously stated by our city’s districting 

16 consultant, Mr. Miguel De Grandy, include: respecting natural manmade geographic boundaries, 

17 contiguity, compactness, maintaining the core of existing districts, and maintaining communities 

18 of interest together, such as traditional neighborhoods. That’s what this is about and I had the 

19 pleasure to serve in that 1997 blue ribbon committee with Mr. De Grandy as well. And thank you 

20 for appointing me to that committee, then-Mayor and now Commissioner Carollo. Strong 

21 neighborhoods build strong cities and redistricting is specifically not intended to break up 

22 established neighborhoods, because you fracture any voice that the community may have to 

23 preserve its fabric. Please, commissioners, do the right thing, we’ve come a long way, we really 

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1 have, we’re almost there. Just keep the Grove, the Grove. Thank you for your time and your 

2 patience.

3 Commissioner King: Thank you.

4 Commissioner Carollo: Elena. 

5 Elena Carpenters: Yes.

6 Commissioner Carollo: It’s very good to see you again, it’s been a long time.

7 Elena Carpenter: It’s been a while.

8 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah and you’ve —

9 Elena Carpenter: And I just wanted to give a little bit of background because some people 

10 say they’ve live in the five-member single member districts for 50 or 60 years, but that was your 

11 smart choice to establish that districting committee which gave us equality and equity in the 

12 Commission.

13 Commissioner Carollo: That’s what I’m trying to keep based on our population makeup in 

14 the city.

15 Elena Carpenter: Thank you, sir.

16 Commissioner Carollo: Let me ask you a question.

17 Elena Carpenter: I’m sorry, oh please

18 Commissioner Carollo: I apologize.

19 Elena Carpenter: I hope I can answer it.

20 Commissioner Carollo: Well, I don’t know if you can, cause I, you know I’m getting up 

21 there in age and I forget. I only keep in the hard drive the real important things, everything else 

22 somehow get thrown out. And I don’t have to be hacked.

23 Elena Carpenter: You don’t what.

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1 Commissioner Carollo: I don’t even have to be hacked, I just throw it out, unless it’s really 

2 important to me. Back then in the committee that you wwere in, and Mr. De Grandy was still 

3 around if I remember correct. How did you come to the conclusion of having Little Havana, 

4 Shenandoah, Silver Bluff, Flagami, other areas being divided? They were one community too.

5 Elena Carpenter: Are you, are you really asking me if I remember what the process was in 

6 1997?

7 Commissioner Carollo: But they were divided back then in different districts.

8 Elena Carpenter: But, well all of Miami was one district. Every Commissioner served at9 large, so in effect we were a more united Miami then than we are now.

10 Commissioner Carollo: Well, now you heard my statement, maybe I made a mistake, you 

11 know, after all these years.

12 Elena Carpenter: Well at the time—

13 Commissioner Carollo: That I should just leave it—

14 Elena Carpenter: You didn’t have a choice.

15 Commissioner Carollo: Citywide. Absolutely not—

16 Elena Carpenter: We were sued.

17 Commissioner Carollo: No, no, that don’t matter. The federal laws were clear at the time 

18 that you have to show that there was a consistency.

19 Elena Carpenter: Right.

20 Commissioner Carollo: And just because someone was not elected that happened to be of 

21 color, doesn’t mean that there were grounds because maybe that individual, people don’t like him.

22 So, you needed three elections in a row before a suit could have gone against the city.

23 Elena Carpenter: Right.

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1 Commissioner Carollo: Anybody can sue anybody, there’s frivolous lawsuits against the 

2 city of Miami all the time but that was the standard then.

3 Elena Carpenter: Right.

4 Commissioner Carollo: It’s the standard now.

5 Elena Carpenter: However, you did get five single member districts out of that, and you 

6 left Coconut Grove together, so—

7 Commissioner Carollo: Because back then if you remember—

8 Elena Carpenter: You’re making this difficult you know.

9 Commissioner Carollo: We could not have separated Coconut Grove and kept one Anglo 

10 district. In fact, what we had to do was what we’re discussing today. To give Coconut Grove 

11 enough of a population, even though we were going from one end of the water all the way to the 

12 end of the city in the northeast, we had to cross across US 1 to give District 2, the Anglo district,

13 more of a population to balance those populations. And this is why you and the committee 

14 recommended that Little Havana had to be broken up, Shenandoah, Silver Bluff, Flagami, and I 

15 could go on and on. And that’s the only point that I’m trying to make. I thank you for your service 

16 in those years for that and many other things that you served the city in.

17 Commissioner Reyes: Madam Chair.

18 Elena Carpenter: Thank you sir.

19 Commissioner Carollo: Thank you Elena.

20 Commissioner Reyes: And, and, and, the question, Manolo, venga, okay. Now, the 

21 question.

22 Elena Carpenter: Am I still on the stand? This better be easy.

23 Commissioner Reyes: And the question is a valid question that I have heard all over. You 

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1 see, it was good at the time, I mean that Shenandoah, for example, was established, Silver Bluff,

2 were real established communities. They were neighborhoods that they had the same pride that 

3 every — Coconut Grove, and rightly so, had at the time. But Flagami, Little Havana — and you 

4 were in that committee, and you agreed to divide those, those neighborhood because it was needed.

5 At the time, it was needed as Commissioner Carollo explained, if it hadn’t been like that, probably 

6 we wouldn’t have Mr. Russell sitting there. Or probably if we haven’t done it like that, Chairman

7 King would not be here. It will be five Hispanics because that’s the way that the population moved, 

8 you see. But at the time it was fine to divide Shenandoah, Silver Bluff, Flagami. I mean it was 

9 fine, you see. Because we wanted to achieve what we want to achieve now. What we want to 

10 achieve now is to have in redistricting, this redistricting, in a way that we can guarantee that there 

11 is, I mean there is, the probabilities of electing an Anglo and an Afro-American are great. You see.

12 So we can keep diversity in the Commission and that’s what I want everybody to think, you see.

13 Elena Carpenter: Well that is the goal of creating districts that are balanced —

14 Commissioner Reyes: That was the goal, but at the time the goal required — because if we 

15 had not — if we had broken Coconut Grove up or any other of the so-called white neighborhoods, 

16 we wouldn’t have any [pointing in direction of Commissioner King and Commissioner Russell]

17 people here, but Silver Bluff was broken, was divided, Shenandoah was divided, Flagami was 

18 divided, Little Havana was divided, because it was needed. What I’m trying to tell you that now 

19 we are in a predicament that we have to do what we have to do, when what has to be done in order 

20 to keep diversity.

21 Elena Carpenter: And I understand you do, that you are trying your best and above all you 

22 have listened to us again and again, but I might, but I just don’t have the, that CPU databank 

23 working properly because it was 25 years ago, but I don’t think we separated Little Havana. That 

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1 may be happened in the two redistricting since —

2 Commissioner Reyes: Let me tell you, I — my hard disk is kind of rusty but, because of 

3 my age —

4 Elena Carpenter: So is mine. 

5 Commissioner Reyes: But I still, once in a while, you see, I, it gets going like brand new,

6 you see. And I do remember everything that happened from the first, the first, the first time that 

7 the districts were created. And the reason why and how were created and all of that. But I just want 

8 you to just to think about that, I want everybody to think about that. You see, sometimes when we 

9 have a major goal, a goal that I think is very important and in my opinion, you see, it is very, very 

10 important for the City of Miami to be — not Coconut Grove, not Little Havana, not Flagami —

11 the City of Miami to be a community.

12 Elena Carpenter: Yeah. 

13 Commissioner Reyes: We need diversity here.

14 Elena Carpenter: And we have such great diversity in Coconut Grove.

15 Commissioner Reyes: Oh well then.

16 Elena Carpenter: Let us keep it. 

17 Commissioner Reyes: I mean we have, you see, the city, for the city to be the great city 

18 that we have, and for me to be proud of my city, I need to look at this [gesturing in direction of 

19 Commissioner King and Commissioner Russell] and see diversity here, even if I’m not here. But 

20 I need to see that every single group, major group is represented. And every major group has a 

21 voice and that’s what we’re trying to perpetuate, that is my point, we’re trying to perpetuate that. 

22 Elena Carpenter: Thank you. 

23 Commissioner King: Thank you.

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1 Elena Carpenter: And thank you again for your time and your consideration.

2 Commissioner King: Good afternoon. 

3 Christina McKinnon: Good afternoon members of the Commission, Madam Chair, City 

4 Attorney, my name is attorney Christina McKinnon. I am a past president of the Black Lawyers 

5 of Miami-Dade County and the past chair of the Judicial Nominating Commission. I’m not here 

6 in that capacity certainly I am a long-time resident born and raised in the West Grove, Coconut 

7 Grove. My family got there about three generations ago, my grandfather build his wooden two8 story house for his eight kids on Williams Avenue, we all went to F.S. Tucker Elementary school, 

9 I grew up on Bird Avenue, I think is part of the area that is supposed to go across now, US 1. We 

10 moved to 3593 Day Avenue and now we have a house over on 3601 Frow Avenue. Always in the 

11 Grove, a rich diverse culture. Two attorneys coming from my parents in this community. It’s very 

12 personal to me that our cohesive unit, and as you heard me say that we’ve lived all throughout the 

13 North Grove and also West Grove, is being broken up and our votes are being diffused, right?

14 They are being diluted. So, my 84 year old mother who still lives there is an active member of her 

15 church, of her community, and I would – speaking on her behalf – want the community to stay 

16 together. Want the community to be adequately represented from its historical roots. I’m not sure 

17 if you are aware, but the name Coconut Grove was a province in Nassau, right, came from the 

18 Bahamian settlers that originally settled this area. So, it’s not about race, it is about culture. Even 

19 the Little Havana and Shenandoah areas still have a representative of those populations. We ask 

20 that this cohesive unit—

21 Commissioner King: Thank you. 

22 Christina McKinnon: Be maintained as well.

23 Commissioner King: Thank you. 

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1 Commissioner Reyes: But there are two representatives in Little Havana, Commissioner 

2 Carollo and myself. You see. We got – and Little Havana is still Little Havana, you see. But – and 

3 two representatives in Flagami, Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla and myself, you see. And 

4 Flagami has not been – I mena, it’s not, it doesn’t belong to Opa Locka, doesn’t belong to Hialeah, 

5 Flagami is still Miami. And we – I mean if this passes, whatever it is and I don’t know what’s 

6 gonna happen. But you gonna have two different commissioners in Coconut Grove, next day when 

7 you wake up, your neighbor is gonna be there, is gonna be in Coconut Grove even if it’s the next 

8 street and he’s represented by somebody else—

9 Christina McKinnon: Commissioner —

10 Commissioner Reyes: Hold on, I haven’t finished. 

11 Christina McKinnon: Okay, go ahead. 

12 Commissioner Reyes: The church is gonna be there, I heard somebody says there is not 

13 gonna be more – my land, like if we were gonna take my land away, you see. What I’m trying to 

14 say it is by, it’s not the end of the world. You have three people, if you have three commissioners, 

15 you have three people that you can go and ask for things for your district. Just like in Flagami, the 

16 people of Flagami, when we wanna do something, they will go to Díaz de la Portilla, they come to 

17 me. You see, it is like now in Shenandoah, we’re building brand new pool and it’s gonna be an 

18 Olympic size and all of that. I got it because I have help from the commissioner from the other 

19 side, you see. And every single community meeting that we had, there were people from 

20 Shenandoah that live on his side and people from Shenandoah that live on my side arguing and 

21 discussing what are the projects that we’re gonna do there. 

22 Christina McKinnon: Understood and respectfully—

23 Commissioner Reyes: You see. 

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1 Christina McKinnon: Commissioner Reyes, when I lived on Bird Avenue which would’ve 

2 eventually or per this proposed plan going into your district now, how would I or my parents at 

3 the time been able to connect with their community, vote as a cohesive bloc with the West Grove 

4 community, and we have a separate commissioner, an entirely separate commissioner that doesn’t 

5 know the interest of the community, does not have the numbers for that particular unit to cross US

6 1. How would it serve our people as a Bahamian culture as —

7 Commissioner Reyes: Well what you’re trying to say is that a Cuban that is coming to —

8 Christina McKinnon: No, it’s not about race —

9 Commissioner Reyes: I have been —

10 Christina McKinnon: Because Cubans are of different races as you’re well aware, it’s not 

11 about race —

12 Commissioner Reyes: What I’m saying —

13 Attorney Christina Mckenen: It is about culture, sir.

14 Commissioner Reyes: I know I know about that culture. Just, I mean, I have been in contact 

15 with that culture longer than you.

16 Christina McKinnon: Okay.

17 Commissioner Reyes: Okay. I was the one, let me tell you —

18 Christina McKinnon: Longer than my family.

19 Commissioner Reyes: Not longer than your family but I had enjoyed that culture – as a 

20 matter of fact, this commissioner you see here.

21 Christina McKinnon: Okay.

22 Commissioner Reyes: Is the one that presented the resolution to bring Goombay back to 

23 Coconut Grove.

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1 Christina Mckenen: Goombay is not all that Coconut Grove is.

2 Commissioner Reyes: But it’s the, it represents the Bahamian culture. 

3 Commissioner King: Commissioner Reyes, Commissioner Reyes.

4 Commissioner Reyes: You see, I mean the position I took before —

5 Christina McKinnon: Commissioner Reyes, respectfully, respectfully, how often and how 

6 many times have you walked, knocked on doors in the Black community, in West Grove to find 

7 out what the interest are —

8 Commissioner Reyes: Let me tell you this — I have an answer, I have an answer. You see 

9 you may not —

10 Christina McKinnon: Commissioner Reyes, can I say this respectfully.

11 Commissioner Reyes: No, respectfully and I take the respect but I’m gonna answer it. First 

12 time that I ran was 1985, it was citywide, and then I ran three more times that it was citywide and 

13 I knocked on those doors during that time, you see. And you remember, I mean, there was a lot of 

14 people in that area and one thing that really bothers me the most, you know what it is? When you

15 drive through Grand Avenue, all those apartments, apartment buildings, that they used to be 

16 occupied by Afro Americans, now they are boarded up. You see, they are boarded up, that really 

17 bothers me because —

18 Christina McKinnon: Well, they were owned by slum lords.

19 Commissioner Reyes: That’s right —

20 Commissioner King: Commissioner Reyes, Commissioner Reyes, if you’d like to speak to 

21 Attorney McKinnonon the side you can do that because our meeting is getting —

22 Commissioner Reyes: Okay. 

23 Commissioner King: Has gone of the rails.

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1 Christina McKinnon: Thank you, Madam Chair.

2 Commissioner King: Thank you Attorney McKinnon. Listen, please do not clap in here. It 

3 is within my right to have everyone removed from these chambers right now, I have given 

4 everyone leniency so that the commissioners could address the public, given them an opportunity 

5 to have a dialogue back and forth, I’ve been very quiet today, I haven’t turned off the mics. But if 

6 you clap again, I will have every single one of you removed from here, so we can finish this 

7 business. This is a very hot topic, no one is gonna be happy at the end of this, no one, because 

8 everyone can’t get what they want, it’s just impossible. We are trying our best to be sensitive to 

9 the needs of the entire community and we have done so by having these meetings – six, I believe 

10 we are at – so if we can please move forward with public comments so we can get to the business

11 of deciding how this city is going to look after this redistricting, please. Thank you. Ma’am. 

12 Rose Pujol: Yes, my name is Rose Pujol and I live, since 1985, across Kennedy Park, 2455 

13 South Bayshore Drive and I have to say first of all that each and every one of you commissioners, 

14 each and every one of you, I have felt you give us access. That’s my personal feeling when we 

15 have needed to we have gone to your offices, we have met with your staff, and I don’t think that 

16 would change much. But if you look at when you individually, when each and every one of you 

17 travel, I think the parts of a city that are historic, for me at least when I travel, I find that’s the first 

18 place I wanna see. And I like to get a feel for how that community relates to each other. And you 

19 see it, you see it in businesses, and you see how the neighborhoods are set up. And so 

20 Commissioner Reyes, when you say you’re house is gonna be in the same it place it was tomorrow, 

21 yes it will be. But the dynamics of us reaching out to you is gonna be a bit more complex right?

22 And —

23 Commissioner King: Commissioner Reyes, please.

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1 Rose Pujol: And when you look at the people who come here which I find also very 

2 interesting, I see a lot of faces that I know, but I also see some new faces, and I think it’s important 

3 when you make this decision today, that you think in terms not just of the maps, okay? But of 

4 Miami in five and ten years from now.

5 Commissioner Reyes: I understand. 

6 Rose Pujol: Thank you.

7 Commissioner King: Thank you. Sir.

8 Commissioner Reyes: I was just clarifying something but I do understand, but I took my 

9 position and it’s not gonna change. 

10 Councilman Joseph Brown: Good afternoon Commissioner, Councilman Joseph Brown 

11 from right here in the Grove. I have spoken to many of you individually and those who I haven’t, 

12 I will speak to you individually. My question, I mean the people have spoken and it’s clear. Politics 

13 is about majorities you will do what you will. Whether it’s one commissioner, three, or five, the 

14 West Grove has been neglected far too long. So, we all know that, right? My question to you all is 

15 about the CRA. And the CRA that stands now, with the redistricting, the way it was before, we 

16 were gonna pull from some of the taxes and businesses from the side of the Grove that I believe 

17 will come to your district now and that will bring monies back to the West Grove. With the 

18 redistricting, you know there’s no real business revenue on the West Grove and Grand Avenue 

19 because it’s been blighted for decades. How will that be affect it and what can we do? Which 

20 brings me to second question, which is the BID. The West Grove already has enough problems, 

21 the BID stops at 32nd. The people from the West Grove they eat in Center Grove, they shop in 

22 Center Grove, they pay taxes, they do everything but they don’t get represented by the BID. That’s 

23 a problem. We need to have it addressed. Secondly the last thing I wanna say in reference to, I was 

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1 gonna talk about the pool, there’s 60 children from the West Grove who have scholarships at the 

2 sailing club but the scholarship really can’t go into effect for liability issues until they know how 

3 to swim. And my children swam in the West Grove for one year at the pool at Verrick, I’m glad 

4 to hear it’s here now, but those scholarships are being held up because the kids can’t swim. Please 

5 whether it’s one, three, or five of you, give some attention to the West Grove please? 

6 Commissioner Reyes: I do understand. 

7 Commissioner King: Thank you. Ma’am.

8 Renee Shavir: Renee Schafer, 2571 Lincoln, my request is simple: please keep us as one 

9 Grove. US 1 and the bay being the boundary, I appreciate all your time and efforts, I think of us 

10 as a large house with uncles, cousins from generations, to take a sliver is to lock the door and we 

11 have to go outside to find our parent, so please keep us together and I appreciate all your time. 

12 Commissioner King: Good afternoon.

13 Male Speaker: Madam Chair, am I on? Yes, I am. Commissioners, I wanna thank you all 

14 individually for sitting through this entire important discussion again. I appreciate it. To my

15 colleagues and neighbors in Coconut Grove, I have waited for years to see a gathering, in fact three

16 straight gatherings, in which nobody could say we showed up with pitchforks. All we showed up 

17 with here is a sense of passion, fairness and, quite frankly commissioners, a belief in the American 

18 dream, that we’re allowed to speak and affect our representatives. Commissioner Reyes, if I ever 

19 move from this district I wanna move to a district you’re representing. Thank you. Thank you also 

20 for facilitating these conversations. Commissioner Russell, you’ve been admirable sir. In short, 

21 I’m not a lawyer but I am concerned, the only reason I can find a portion of what is currently the 

22 Grove’s district, according to the street, is that one of the incumbents on the Commission owns a 

23 house there and this would enable him to live there. I’m not gonna say yes or no on that because 

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1 the Florida State Constitution, I believe you’re familiar with this sir, adopted in 2010 Section 21 

2 of the State Constitution, and it said no incumbent through the process of redistricting can benefit 

3 directly. The only, the only reason I can find for doing that is that occurrence. 31,000 people in 

4 Downtown Miami increased in population. The Grove increased about 1,500 and now we’re gonna 

5 say oh yeah, well let’s take a little bit away from the Grove here. I remind you as representatives

6 of the people —

7 Commissioner King: Thank you.

8 Male Speaker: That if the same logic —

9 Commissioner King: Thank you.

10 Male Speaker: Okay, thank you.

11 Commissioner King: Good afternoon.

12 David Winker: Good afternoon, David Winker. Democracy is a verb and what we’re 

13 hearing today is democracy in action. Thank you for listening. The residents of Coconut Grove 

14 want to ensure their community stays one. They’ve made that clear. I live at 2222 SW 17th Street, 

15 in Commissioner Reyes’ district and I’m a very happy constituent but I would like to point out, I 

16 live in Shenandoah which is split roughly one-third into Commissioner Carollo’s district, one-third

17 into Mr. Reyes’ district. And when we have a community meeting, the two of you can’t show up 

18 at the same time even, you can’t be there, that’d be a violation. So, you know I’m concerned that 

19 there are some real logistical problems and I would just humbly suggest that just because other 

20 communities have been broken up, you know that that doesn’t mean that this community should 

21 be broken up.

22 Commissioner Carollo: David, if I can interrupt for a second and give him the extra seconds 

23 that I’m taking. As an attorney, you know well that we can call a meeting in the sunshine and then 

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1 we can meet. So, that’s not a problem whatsoever. 

2 David Winker: It’s still just, it’s an extra step and in this case —

3 Commissioner Carollo: It’s a minute. It’s just holding a meeting in the sunshine and two 

4 of us can meet, all of us can meet.

5 David Winker: But every community meeting would have to be a sunshine meeting.

6 Commissioner Carollo: And that’s no problem with that if we know we’re gonna show up,

7 both of us. 

8 Commissioner Reyes: And they are people from the public.

9 David Winker: And I think in here, I think it’s almost unprecedented because there’s gonna 

10 be three commissioners, potentially three commissioners, so you’d have to have a sunshine 

11 meeting with three commissioners every time there’s a Village Council meeting or whatever you 

12 know is going on. So, I just through it out there. But I think that, I’ll wrap it up with this. The law 

13 on redistricting requires that communities of interest be kept together, I don’t think there’s any 

14 doubt Coconut Grove is a community of interest. We just ask, plead, that you consider these 

15 comments, I think it is telling that there hasn’t been one resident in four meetings, that has spoken 

16 in favor of this. I don’t think that’s in disrespect for Commissioner Reyes, for you Mr. Carollo —

17 Commissioner King: Thank you.

18 David Winker: I think they’re just happy with where they are.

19 Commissioner King: Thank you.

20 David Winker: Thank you so much. 

21 Cecilia Kurland: Good afternoon, Cecilia Kurland, 3132 Day Avenue. Thank you for your 

22 time, I just would like to request to keep Coconut Grove one, as one. As mentioned, there is more 

23 logistics and your schedules are pretty busy and just to think who will need to speak every time 

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1 that we need save trees. Obviously we wanna have representation that considers and has our 

2 objectives as keeping you know community that is highly, what is this word? Active, defending 

3 the vegetation and we are a community recognized for that. Thank you for listening to us in the 

4 Grove and your own residents and I think your own residents also mentioned that they would like 

5 to reunite again, I don’t know how possible it is to do that, but I think we’re at the point that maybe 

6 another option could be to reunite the communities that have been previously divided. And that’s 

7 listening to your own constituents. Thank you for your time.

8 Commissioner King: Thank you. 

9 Commissioner Carollo: Thank you. 

10 Commissioner King: Good afternoon.

11 Elizabeth McGrath: Good afternoon, I am Elizabeth McGrath and I live at 3750 Kent 

12 Court. I fully support Commissioner Russell’s plan and please consider it. I’d like to give my time 

13 to Mel, the next speaker, and I submit that. 

14 Commissioner King: Mel, you have a minute and 42 seconds. 

15 Mel Meinhardt: Chairman King, commissioners, wow. 

16 Commissioner King: Well, she gave her time.

17 Mel Meinhardt: I’m sorry. 

18 Commissioner King: Go ahead, go ahead. 

19 Mel Meinhardt: Wow, if this country in this crazy time has ever needed leaders, we always 

20 need leaders, because we live in a crazy, loving, diverse, actively diverse community. A 

21 community that I love because the only Palacio de Jugos that I’ll go to is the one in Flagami. All 

22 the new ones they don’t count. Right?

23 Commissioner Reyes: That’s the best.

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1 Mel Meinhardt: Right? When my son and I hang out at St Peter’s and Paul it give us very 

2 special memories because it’s a special community. When I had the privilege during the pandemic 

3 to help a scout troop from the 5th District who is really in hard times, that made me feel great. It 

4 made me great because we could teach the aspects of leadership, that we’re all trying to do, that 

5 we count on you today to represent others and to do the right thing. When we attended through 

6 one Grove all the meetings at each of the commissioners’ townhalls, there was one message that 

7 came out in each of yours and that was look out for our neighborhoods, reunite when possible our 

8 neighborhoods and do the right thing. We know that leaders are presented with exceptional 

9 challenges, the challenge you have is to get and maintain the confidence of the people you 

10 represent. That’s perhaps the most important thing you can do in a representative democracy. I 

11 ask—

12 Commissioner King: Your two minutes.

13 Mel Meinhardt: That you do lessons we teach the scouts, that when there is ambiguity or 

14 uncertainty about a decision that they have to make, they don’t step up to the line to make that 

15 decision, they don’t look for what the letter of the law is, they try to figure out what the right thing 

16 to do is, what the wrong thing to do is, and then they turn their backs on the wrong thing and they 

17 move forward. Because that’s the way they get the people that they’re with to follow them. Here’s 

18 your call to action from each of your representatives, from each of your districts, from each of 

19 your constituents, they don’t get to see what you do, only you do. Commissioner, thank you for 

20 leading the way in your decisions with the 4th District. Thank you for trying to put together 

21 reasoned approaches, thank you for each of you that have been able to explain the reasons for your 

22 actions, explain them and hold them up to the light. Hold them into the sunshine so that we can 

23 understand why you’re doing the things you’re doing and how they benefit your stated goals of 

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1 supporting us all in the city. Not for the past and the history that we protect, but for the future of 

2 this growing city and where you’re gonna have to bring it. Thank you, Madam Chair. 

3 Commissioner King: Thank you.

4 Luisa Pena: Good afternoon.

5 Commissioner King: Good afternoon.

6 Luisa Pena: As you all probably remember from last time, I’m not much of a public 

7 speaker, but I am here on behalf of my family and my neighbors. I am pleading with you to avoid 

8 the impending dismemberment of our community. I understand rebalancing of population is 

9 necessary but I’m a firm believer that no community should be broken up into two or three districts.

10 And just because it’s done been done in the past doesn’t make it right. In fact this should only be 

11 done as a last resort when no other options exists, which is not the case this time around.

12 Commissioner Russell has presented a viable plan that keeps the Grove, an establish community,

13 intact as one district and all while allowing for the rebalancing of the population as stipulated. In 

14 fact, Mr. Russell’s proposed plan does a better job of rebalancing the population, and with a lesser 

15 variation compared to the previously presented plans. It also unifies communities such as West 

16 Brickell. Furthermore, Mr. Russell’s plan maintains a natural known boundary, keeps the Grove 

17 intact as one district and avoids voter confusion. So, my question is to Mr. Carollo and anybody 

18 else who may want to answer this. With a better plan having been proposed, can you please 

19 elaborate why you continue to support the previous maps which break up communities like the 

20 Grove into various districts. And also speaking on Mr. Reyes’ comment from earlier, having three

21 separate commissioners may be good and but to be honest with you I only see the problem. Having 

22 to request three separate meetings with three different commissioners in order to get anything 

23 passed, will become three times tougher that if there were just one commissioner. Thank you.

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1 Commissioner King: Thank you.

2 Mr. Wysong: Chair, I just need the speaker’s name?

3 Luisa Pena: I’m sorry?

4 Mr. Wysong: Your name?

5 Luisa Pena: Oh, my name is Luisa Pena. Thank you.

6 Commissioner King: Thank you. Seeing no one else for public comment.

7 Guillermo de la Paz: Good afternoon, Guillermo de la Paz, 3441 Charles Avenue.

8 Commissioner Reyes, I hear someone asking you how many times you have walked on the West 

9 Grove and I drive all the way here. A couple of years back Commissioner Reyes and Commissioner 

10 Carollo, they were champions for property rights. Many of you don’t know, but the code was about 

11 the change, a property was about 30% less to be able to build and to be able to sell, both of them 

12 were champions defending that. And also, they were champions defending the people from the 

13 West Grove when Commissioner Russell tried to designate 55 homes to be historic-designated

14 homes. So, when I hear talking about one Grove, I – we have to have an honest conversation, 

15 there’s several Groves here. There’s one Grove they’re starting 32nd where the pavement start, 

16 new one side and old on the other one. And there’s the other Grove that everybody likes to live 

17 and to enjoy. We don’t have capital improvement in the West Grove, we still have shootings, we 

18 have drugs, we have no business on Grand Avenue, and wish and I can only wish, that Grand 

19 Avenue would look like Little Havana. Thank you, guys.

20 Commissioner King: Thank you. Having seen no one else for public comment, the public 

21 comment period is now closed. Mr. De Grandy, do you have anything else that you would like to 

22 say before we start discussion?

23 Miguel De Grandy: Yes, Commissioner, just to clear the record. I think I covered the issue 

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1 of allegations of racism in the plan last time very thoroughly, but quite frankly those allegations 

2 are false and inflammatory and offensive.

3 Commissioner King: Thank you, Mr. De Grandy. Mr. Cody, do you have anything?

4 Stephen Cody: No, I’m just prepared in case you have questions—

5 Commissioner King: Right, okay.

6 Stephen Cody: You wanna refer to the presentation.

7 Commissioner King: So, the way we’re gonna proceed with the meeting is, I’m going to 

8 go in the order that I’ve established, I’m going to go with my Vice Chair first and then in order of 

9 districts. We’re gonna try and keep our comments to less than fifteen minutes, if possible?

10 Commissioner Carollo: I – I will.

11 Commissioner King: Okay.

12 Commissioner Carollo: I will, I’ll reserve most of my comment, most of my time for 

13 rebuttal at the end. There we go. Coconut Grove is an important part of the City of Miami. It’s a 

14 beautiful part of the City of Miami. In fact, it’s the part of the City of Miami that I’ve lived in the 

15 past for over three decades, if I remember correct, beginning what year, ‘84. The population of 

16 Coconut Grove is about three and three-quarters percent of the population of the City of Miami.

17 We’re one city, whether it’s Coconut Grove, whether it’s any of our great neighborhoods in the 

18 northeast, Liberty City, Little Haiti, Overtown, Downtown, Allapattah, Little Havana, 

19 Shenandoah, Silver Bluff, Flagami, and I can go on and on.

20 As I stated before, I respect the opinions of everyone that’s come here, even though some 

21 of the opinions I think are been misinformed, and I tried to correct that in as far, in particularly, as 

22 the area of the traditional Black Grove, and what is being claimed that we done that we are not 

23 doing. What – it’s been amazing for me to hear is like when I hear one individual challenging 

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1 Commissioner Reyes, and in essence he’s challenging all of us, that we can’t represent, he was 

2 telling Commissioner Reyes, Coconut Grove. We don’t understand the people in Coconut Grove.

3 Well, I was elected the first time at 24 years old and reelected and then elected three times to four4 year terms, citywide, where I represented Coconut Grove and every other part of the city. Twice I 

5 was elected mayor of the city again citywide to represent all the city including Coconut Grove.

6 And I never heard ever then what I’m hearing today from some that I couldn’t represent Coconut 

7 Grove or this part of the city or the other part of the city. Wanna talk about walking, yes, I can tell 

8 you that I have walked Coconut Grove and I have walked the Black Grove, what some want to call 

9 now the West Grove so they could hopefully make more money in real estate and the McMansions. 

10 I’ve never seen many of the people that are here today complain about all those McMansions being 

11 built, when African Americans that were some of the traditional families in Coconut Grove, were 

12 being moved out. Some sold, because the property taxes were so high that they had no other reason 

13 but to sell. And that’s sad that that would happen in your own city, that you’re you know after your 

14 older you having to sell your home because of property taxes, after you had it all paid for, it’s not 

15 supposed to be that way. But that has happened.

16 In the past, I’ve heard people that come here that have even brought up the arts festival.

17 Can you imagine, he said, that we had the arts festival and one part is in one district and the other 

18 part’s in the other. You would’ve though he was talking about the border in Ukraine and Russia.

19 So what? It’s still Coconut Grove, it’s still the City of Miami, and that doesn’t change anything, 

20 whatsoever. We’ve done things on both sides of Little Havana, Commissioner Reyes and there’s 

21 been no problem in doing it. The best one that I heard today – and Mr. Clerk, make sure you give 

22 me that guy’s name and what he does and what hospital is that, I wanna make sure I never get him 

23 if I have an emergency – the guy in green. That he says that his property values are gonna go down 

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1 in Bay Heights because the address is gonna be Little Havana. In essence he told me what he thinks 

2 of all of us but I’d like to see what his neighbors think of him too. You know, maybe they think of 

3 him the same he thinks of us Cubans or other Hispanics, but you know that’s life. Like Maurice 

4 Ferré used to tell me laughingly when he would see something like that, he’d say Joe, that’s life in 

5 the tropics, and we would laugh.

6 But look, there’s nothing wrong and it’s natural for people in the neighborhood to wanna 

7 see whatever area be kept together, it’s natural. So I’m not surprised that some of you are here and 

8 are asking for that. You know, it’d probably unnatural if you felt differently. But we have tried 

9 throughout the decades to keep as many of the communities together as we could, to meet the goal 

10 of redistricting. You know, I’ve heard so much of Downtown Miami. Why don’t you go to 

11 Downtown to where all the growth is happening. It’s exactly what we did. Commissioner King in 

12 this redistricting is taking the bulk of Downtown. The only reason she doesn’t take the rest is we 

13 need to keep a sliver on Biscayne Boulevard so that the northeast, the part of the northeast that’s 

14 left, can be connected with Downtown and Coconut Grove, and Brickell etcetera. The reason we’re 

15 having to do this is because the growth we’ve had – and we have to keep one district that is going 

16 to have a majority of African Americans. We’re gonna have to keep one district that you can get 

17 an Anglo, whether they’re an Anglo that’s Japanese or an Anglo that’s Russian, Ukrainian, Italian, 

18 Polish, English, French, they can get elected. And City of Miami still has a population that is at 

19 least 70%, maybe more, I don’t know, maybe De Grandy can clarify that, that’s Hispanic. And we 

20 have to keep three districts that are going to be majority-Hispanic. But since Hispanic comes in all 

21 types, colors, creeds, races, religions, not all think alike, not all act alike, we’re trying – and based 

22 on the federal guidelines – are trying to keep those Hispanic-majority districts within those 

23 guidelines of people that are closer to each other so that three Hispanics could be elected in those 

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1 districts too. And this is why we’re going through that process.

2 I, Madam Chair, did not give Mr. De Grandy – I just listened to what he had to say – I did 

3 not give him any suggestions from me. But I will tell you that what I’ll be prepared to vote on is 

4 the last plan that he gave that will include the Wharf in District 5 because that doesn’t impact on 

5 the population at all. And I think you and Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla both elegantly 

6 presented your points of views and that was clear, why made it happen before. Now, if that is not 

7 acceptable, then I’m willing to present another plan that frankly, I think will be the one that will 

8 have the least deviations of any, and will not leave District 2 inflated into the future. Cause even 

9 this last plan is leaving more people in District 2 then we should. But we did it, trying to be gracious 

10 to Mr. Russell, hearing the people that were here. That’s why we make sure we would leave the 

11 Black Grove intact and moved this sliver to District 4, so we go from Bird to US 1. The reason 

12 that the other part of the North Grove ended up like that, Mr. De Grandy has explained it several 

13 times already. Commissioner Russell objected to Bay Heights being put into it like you originally 

14 had it, and he originally had it up to I think Simpson Park. And Mr. De Grandy came back on his 

15 own initiative and changed it based on populations. And if they even wanna cut it differently where 

16 Morris Lane goes into District 4, hey, I got now problem, none-whatsoever.

17 If I – and I meant that before – once, you know that brings me up to ask you another 

18 question Commissioner, once you get done with whatever arrangement which I still didn’t 

19 understand you had when you sold your home nine months ago to move out. I’ll give you a good 

20 deal on a home in Coconut Grove, it’s got more toilets and bathrooms then you wanted, you can 

21 rent it cheap. Not at the 16,000 market rate that I’m told it can go for. But all the attacks and the 

22 baloney at me that hasn’t stopped since I’ve gotten here. And you know what gets those people 

23 that attack me upset is they can’t beat me. They can’t beat me so it gets them more upset and I 

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1 don’t shut up cause I’m not a punching bag and I’m not afraid for anybody to dig into me. But for 

2 instance, if I was to turn this around like some are trying to say, I don’t know, nobody knows 

3 where you’re planning to rent to move to. Because obviously this arrangement you have can’t keep 

4 going on and on and on. And the property, the empty lot that you have, you stated you don’t have 

5 the money you’re hoping I don’t know maybe manna from heaven will fall you can built, so you’re 

6 looking for a place to rent. How do we know where that place to rent, whether you have found 

7 already and it’s one of the areas that map shows that might’ve gone to District 4, District 3, and 

8 it’s gonna get you out of your district then. Not saying that’s the case. But I’m saying that it’s 

9 certainly a possibility. And I’m not saying anything that you don’t have a right to be heard and 

10 vote on this because of that, am I? I’m not. But that possibility is there, we don’t know what’s in 

11 your mind today or will be in your mind next week or next month. Anyway I’ve used less than 15 

12 minutes and I’ll come back. 

13 Commissioner King: You have 30 seconds left.

14 Commissioner Carollo: Well, 30 seconds for rebuttal. 

15 Commissioner King: Commissioner, would you like to —

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I think the 

17 arguments on both sides have been made ad nauseum. I think we now have six, potentially seven

18 plans, that Mr. De Grandy presented I believe five, Mr. Carollo has another plan. So, I’m gonna 

19 defer my time for now until we actually have a motion and a second, have a debate about one 

20 particular plan. I’m pretty sure I know how I’m going to vote, I’ve studied all the plans, had a 

21 conversation about 15 minutes before this meeting started with Mr. De Grandy, one of many. The 

22 last time we had it, I told him I had no problem with the Wharf being in your district that I would 

23 accept that. I obviously could not tell you that, because we’re in the sunshine. But now I can tell 

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1 you publicly, I have no problem that you want the Wharf, you want an economic development 

2 opportunity for your district and I understand that. Because I want the same thing, I want the same 

3 thing for my district. So, I respect that and in the spirit of collegiality I would like for you to have 

4 the Wharf and I’ll support a plan that includes that.

5 My inclination for, you know, cause I would like to be very open, is to support the base

6 plan, base plan, the first plan that was presented to us, with that amendment that includes the Wharf 

7 in your district. And I had some other conversations with Mr. De Grandy that would balance that 

8 district out a little bit that he thinks that he can tweak to get to a certain place so you can have –

9 your district can be represented by an African American. So, I would like to reserve the rest of my 

10 time, which is a lot, for debate on a motion so I’ve only spent about two minutes, less than two

11 minutes, so it’s a debate and a motion and a second so we actually have something to discuss and 

12 debate and to vote on. 

13 Commissioner King: Okay.

14 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’d also like to express my disappointment with people 

15 who walked out of this room. We allowed you to applaud and applaud again and when people 

16 disagree you do not need to be disagreeable. You can disagree in a democracy, we have our points 

17 of view, we have our reasons for what we’re doing, we have no choice but to do this, we’re 

18 constitutionally mandated to do it. And Mr. De Grandy was offended by the accusation of racism 

19 and I can’t even go into all the details because I think Mr. Carollo did it already, but it’s a lot more 

20 to do and talk about accusations, about splitting communities that we can refute back and forth but 

21 we’re not here to have a debate with the public, we’re here to listen to the public and we’re to talk 

22 amongst ourselves and to decide. And until that time comes I’ll reserve the rest of my time which 

23 is about 12 minutes and 52 seconds. Thank you. 

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1 Commissioner King: Thank you. Commissioner Russell.

2 Commissioner Russell: Thank you, Chair. Commissioner Thelma Gibson still calls it the 

3 Black Grove to this day. And for me, the shame isn’t in removing the word Black from Black 

4 Grove but from removing Black people from Black Grove. The population is a fraction of what it 

5 was just a few years ago and I’ve seen it diminish even under my watch. You drive down Grand 

6 Avenue, it’s been decimated by demolition and eviction. And the only thing that’s holding this 

7 community together is this community. And when I say this community, I don’t mean West Grove, 

8 Black Grove, I mean Coconut Grove, because everyone in here is here for the whole Grove, they’re 

9 not saying just save my section of the Grove, they’re saying let us keep it together so we can 

10 continue to fight together. And they’re here fighting today. I didn’t bring them here, I didn’t coach 

11 them what to say and I actually don’t agree with a lot of the things that were said. But they’re here, 

12 they have my back because they know that this – that I’m having their back, but I regret that they 

13 call it Ken Russell’s plan, because it’s not. This is our plan as a Commission to vote on together 

14 based on the consultant’s initial draft and the changes that we’re all recommending. And all of our 

15 changes are not so far from each other, but somehow at the last meeting we became divergent into 

16 four separate plans, being four different presentations and it pits us against each other, which it 

17 shouldn’t, shouldn’t have to be.

18 Commissioner Carollo, I believe you do have the right to vote on this. I’ve never made a 

19 judgement about your ability to vote and that is your decision. That is not for us as a body or our 

20 attorney, or any body of ethics to decide. But I do not believe that you voting on a district that 

21 changes the boundary of your address and Morris Lane, I don’t believe that that gives you a 

22 financial advantage or conflict of any sort. What you do with after that is what could affect that, 

23 but this vote is not a conflict. But I’ve never not on this dais, nor behind your back, made those 

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1 accusation. Many people have come to me and ask me and talk about it, people have in community 

2 meetings asked me about will the value of their homes change, I said absolutely not this will not 

3 change your tax base, will not change the value of your home, the perception of your home. The 

4 real estate market listing of your home. When have you ever seen a market listing show what 

5 district you live in? So, it’s not about all that and my bone isn’t with you and I like I said, the – I 

6 regret a little that it became a back and forth debate with each resident because that affects our 

7 decisions up here and that shouldn’t. We should listen to our residents and we discuss as the elected

8 body to make that decision.

9 So, here’s my request and my hope for the body to come, because I think we’re not too far 

10 off. The changes to the draft that I had recommended, meet all the criteria that we set out as a body,

11 and maybe even better, than the other drafts.

12 Does it maintain the existing core? Well, the draft that was presented squeezes my district 

13 down to a block in some places, where from Bayshore to the water is all I’ve got, a little isthmus 

14 holding together this long snake of a district, so I’m tryna keep it as consistent throughout.

15 Consistent voter cohesion? I think we’ve established that, folks in the Grove are very united 

16 and passionate for what they care about and even though this representation may not be a large 

17 representation sampling of the population, it’s actually quite a large representation of the voter 

18 turnout. In District 2, 6,000 people turn out altogether. I’d say over 60% of that vote comes from 

19 the Grove. And if you took the drafts that were presented, 3,000 votes are getting taken out of the 

20 Grove, residents are being taken out of the Grove, that’s a huge effect on elections and they have 

21 voter cohesion here that I’m trying to protect.

22 Substantial equality of population? My draft actually equalizes my district to the others 

23 better than any of the drafts so far. The last draft still left me overpopulated. My draft takes me 

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1 almost to par zero with the average.

2 And finally, maintaining traditional neighborhoods. There’s no argument here that Coconut 

3 Grove is a traditional neighborhood. The 33133 Zip code delineates right where it shows. The 

4 NCD delineates right where it shows. Everyone one who lives in Natoma and Bay Heights all vote 

5 for the Coconut Grove Village Council members. The sign for you are entering Coconut Grove is 

6 north of Bay Heights. I would very much argue that Bay Heights is a strong part of the Grove, 

7 they’re the only ones that wanna get rid of the peacocks, but other than that they’re likeminded 

8 with everyone in the Grove.

9 Commissioner Carollo: They don’t have peacocks, Bay Heights. 

10 Commissioner Russell: Bay Heights is the highest population of peacocks in the entire 

11 Coconut Grove area. And —

12 Commissioner Carollo: They did? They’re not there yet.

13 Commissioner Russell: Let me finish please, the ask I have is a combination of the draft I 

14 presented and the draft that Commissioner King has presented with any tweaks that other 

15 commissioners would like to add, because I know it may have affected the boundary between D3 

16 and D4 as I made some of my changes, I’m not sure, I didn’t request those changes. But okay, if 

17 it didn’t then those are stabilized. But I believe that the one-block move within the West Brickell 

18 area, the current residents west of that line and east of that line are quite similar, both in density, 

19 demographics, etcetera. And it would take very little to equalize up there. Whereas taking from 

20 the Grove is a huge chunk of the neighborhood that really affects. So, I’m not saying we have a 

21 right to it, not saying your plans are wrong, I’m just asking. Let’s help keep this neighborhood 

22 together that they care so much about, that they elected me to represent, to stand up for and give 

23 this proposal. So my motion ,when it’s the right time to make it, would be a hybrid of 

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1 Commissioner King’s proposal, my proposal, and any other amendments that any commissioners 

2 would like to request. Thank you. 

3 Commissioner King: Thank you Commissioner Russell. Commissioner Reyes?

4 Commissioner Reyes: Yes, thank you and I wanna thank you all for coming and expressing 

5 yourself because this is how democracy works and thanks God that we live in a country that we 

6 can disagree and agree to disagree, you see. And that is what makes this the best country in the 

7 whole world, I mean there’s no doubt about it. Our last meeting, I felt strongly, the feelings and 

8 my feelings also, I’ve said I don’t want to be where I’m not wanted. And I also said, well you 

9 know, there’s a great concern that the Grove, that the West Grove is gonna be divided and the 

10 Black Grove is gonna suffer, and I asked Mr. De Grandy that that sliver that was assigned to 

11 District 4 – which is very odd, by the way – but that be taken out. And I stand by that request. And 

12 as I remember, the first proposal that you had, it took District 3 all the way to over to Bay Heights 

13 and on the west, that was your first proposal, at that. Mr. Russell complained about it and didn’t 

14 want Bay Heights to be include in there, in that proposal. And now you are proposing that as an 

15 alternative because of me, because what I am requesting. And I still stand on my request, you see,

16 to that little sliver that was given to me from Coconut Grove, you see, which is across US 1 and 

17 Bird Avenue and all the way to 27th Avenue, which has 114 African Americans and many people 

18 complain about that and everything. I believe that it would be better and it will ease a lot of minds 

19 if it is taken out and you find other alternatives. I will support that, you see. And that’s what I said 

20 before, I stand today, the same position, you see, okay. I tried to not affect the other districts 

21 negatively and I hope it doesn’t require others – that decision to affect our main objective, which 

22 is to maintain diversity and in this dais, you see, having all the city represented. And I wanna see 

23 what you’re gonna bring and ready to vote on something that make sense. And that’s it.

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1 Commissioner King: Thank you, Commissioner Reyes. Now, my comments are clearly to 

2 have the portion of my district that was taken out, replaced, you’ve done that. Commissioner 

3 Russell, the proposal that was made by Commissioner Reyes, that is not amenable to you? That 

4 gives me back the Wharf and Commissioner Reyes gives back the part of the Grove that was given 

5 to his district, that’s not sufficient?

6 Commissioner Russell: I appreciate Commissioner Reyes giving back that portion but I’m 

7 not sure why he’s advocating for the other portion, it doesn’t seem to affect him or his district in 

8 any way, so my hope is that we can maintain US 1 as the natural boundary between Districts 2, 3 

9 and 4 —

10 Commissioner Reyes: I don’t see the need for that, I think that – and Mr. De Grandy has 

11 explained it real well, you see – that that is necessary in order to maintain the integrity of the 

12 diversity in the Grove and – I mean in the city government. And also that was the your first 

13 proposal, it did include that. 

14 Commissioner Russell: I wasn’t finished, I apologize.

15 Commissioner Reyes: Sorry.

16 Commissioner Russell: Since you mentioned it, Mr. De Grandy, Commissioner Reyes said 

17 that according to you it’s necessary to take out that portion of the North Grove. Could you please 

18 express to the dais what you said to me during our briefing. 

19 Miguel De Grandy: If you take out the 1,597 individuals that we had put into D4, you have 

20 to put population into D3.

21 Commissioner Russell: Yep.

22 Miguel De Grandy: You all have different proposals as to how you accomplish that, but in 

23 order to get it within 10% deviation I cannot put one more resident into Commissioner King’s 

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1 district. I’ve already put 10,500 and going further east would dilute the Black majority in that 

2 district. So, how you do it, is up to you.

3 Commissioner Russell: So, for the record it’s not necessary to take a portion of the Grove 

4 but it is necessary to increase the population of D3 for normalization of the districts.

5 Miguel De Grandy: Yes, you have to one way or another go south or east, as the case may 

6 be, as it moves up of 95. You have to cross 95 to put population into D3. Whether you do it up 

7 further north, which is your proposal, you do it further south, which is his proposal, or somewhere 

8 in between, but you have to put populations from D2 into D3 if you’re taking that portion out.

9 Commissioner Russell: Madam Chair, to finally answer your question, if any 

10 commissioner can give me a good reason why it should come from the Grove, then I will consider.

11 But I have not yet heard a good reason. Every reason I’ve heard has been debunked by the facts 

12 that are available to us in terms of the demographics in West Brickell, the demographics in the 

13 North Grove, the numbers and normalization. My plan actually achieves our goal that we set out, 

14 it meets all of our criteria, so my question is why the Grove, why break up the Grove if we don’t 

15 have to. If we had to, I absolutely agree with you, we must. But I don’t believe we have to and I 

16 haven’t heard a good reason yet, we must. And for a lack of that good reason I have to vote against 

17 anything that breaks up the Grove.

18 Commissioner King: Understood. Okay, so now we have all the plans, we’ve seen 

19 everything, I think we all know where our position is so somebody give me a motion?

20 Commissioner Russell: Motion.

21 Commissioner Carollo: Well. 

22 Commissioner King: Commissioner Russel.

23 Commissioner Carollo: I have to clear if I could, before we ask for a motion. Something 

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1 here that’s not clear and it needs to be clear.

2 Commissioner King: The mics are very old. 

3 Commissioner Carollo: Chair, I need to clear something that has passed and has not been 

4 clear. When Commissioner Reyes says that he doesn’t want the 1,597 individuals that live in the 

5 sliver from Bird Road to US 1, that doesn’t mean that Mr. De Grandy now has to put that same 

6 amount into District 3, no. It means, because the deviation now, means that that number is much 

7 greater. He’s gotta put closer to 3,000 people into D3. So, you put 3,000 – and 1,400 before 

8 approximately – and then you got, you know, you’re getting closer to four thousand and a half

9 approximately, a little below that. And here’s the problem. That Commissioner Reyes’ district, 

10 D4, even with the sliver of 1,600 additional people, to be exact 1,597, it’s still the most Hispanic 

11 district out of the three Hispanic districts in the city. So, what he does in that deviation, he puts 

12 District 3 – into the future, I’m term limited out, I just got elected, I don’t have to run again nor 

13 can I run again. But it would put District 3 into the future in possible jeopardy – and Commissioner 

14 Russell knows that too – in bringing in a transplant from another part of the country, and because 

15 they speak a little Spanish and they smile all the time, they feel they can sneak in. Or they give a 

16 chance to another transplant that tried this time to run against me and crashed. And this district 

17 now is gonna be skewed where it’s not gonna be clear on the kind of person that could get elected 

18 from it. Now, so I think I’ve cleared that air, it’s not that you’re switching 1,600 votes from one 

19 district to the other. It’s more than that, it’s almost double that you have to put in now, on top of 

20 the 1,400 that were there already.

21 Now, Silver Bluff, Shenandoah, Little Havana, in District 3. They’re homes. The most 

22 similar cohesive area that is left that we can go, whether to Coconut Grove or Brickell, those are 

23 the only two that are left, that is more cohesive with District 3 is the Grove or parts of the Grove.

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1 When you go into West Brickell, it’s not cohesive anymore. It changes quite a bit more. Not to 

2 mention if you look just at West Brickell, the numbers also change. And this is why, Commissioner 

3 Russell, I know you forgot, I’ve explained it before, Mr. De Grandy talked about it, while legally 

4 we can go at either one, I will strongly object to West Brickell going into District 3

5 Commissioner Reyes: Me too.

6 Commissioner Carollo: Because it is only going to hurt the future of the foundation, the

7 concept, of why, when I was mayor, I pushed districts. And why I’m one of these guys that 

8 supposedly can’t represent Coconut Grove or the West Grove or the Black Grove or whatever 

9 names you wanna use now, South Grove, North Grove, East Grove, depending on what the realtors 

10 can make more money with these days. This is why when there was no African American left in 

11 this Commission, and something happened that we had the opening. It was Thelma Gibson herself 

12 that – you remember – came up here when she saw me that I came back and she told the story. I 

13 was – this guy that doesn’t know anything about the Grove or African Americans and the West 

14 Grove, that’s represented them in the past five times citywide getting elected. She told this 

15 Commission how I went and got her by the hand and I brought her to this City Hall so that I 

16 convince the rest of my colleagues to elect her and sit her up here until the next election. And this 

17 is why it’s been so hurtful hearing some of these arguments. I can understand the arguments, look 

18 we wanna be one neighborhood, we wanna stay together, that’s normal like I said. But all this 

19 other stuff, that was totally uncalled for, it’s wrong and it’s pure demagoguery, and these are the 

20 kind of people that hurt Coconut Grove, that hurt Miami, that hurt America. You know, if you’re 

21 gonna fight, fight with truth. We might not like it, but go with the facts, but don’t create lies, don’t 

22 create lies to try to get one up and confuse people. I don’t know this, guess he was a doctor, I don’t 

23 know what he is, I mean he had a green outfit, I think he said what he was, so we’ll find out later.

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1 That said that we were gonna cost property values to go down because we’re gonna have the Little 

2 Havana. And even after I explained to him that was not so, he still wants to put the blame on us.

3 Well, we didn’t do enough of a good job in explaining it. Holly cow. So anyway, I hope – I know 

4 that it’s not gonna be enough for you and I understand, but I’m explaining to you the reasons why.

5 Look, I’m term limited, I could play politics here and not give a hoot for the future or anybody, let 

6 you guys, you know, do whatever in the future. I’ll be in Shangri-La and don’t tell me where 

7 because I don’t want it screwed up, Shangri-La, like other places have. You’ll see me once in a 

8 while.

9 Commissioner Reyes: You won’t give your address?

10 Commissioner Carollo: No, but I’ll have more than the two toy the city one, that’s why I’m 

11 afraid that, you know, he might wanna rent over there.

12 Commissioner King: Okay.

13 Commissioner Carollo: But, those are the reasons that I have taken the position that I have.

14 I do not want to change the District 3 voting patterns, the types of people that are there with 

15 different people. I don’t want to do that to District 4, nor to District 1. Just like I want to be able

16 to leave District 2 where it could still elect a guy like you, if they want to. In District 5, that will 

17 be a majority-African American district.

18 Commissioner Russell: Thank you, I’d like to make the motion.

19 Commissioner King: Okay, Commissioner Russell.

20 Commissioner Russell: Thank you. So, my motion – and if you noticed the map that was 

21 offered today by Mr. De Grandy does not take the entire western edge of West Brickell and send 

22 it to District 3. After our last meeting, he had an epiphany and in our discussion or our meeting, 

23 he realized he can take it block by block, just to normalize enough of the population. But one thing 

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1 he clearly stated – and correct me if I’m incorrect – there is basically no difference between the 

2 demographic blend, Hispanic, white, Black, from the North Grove to that section on West Brickell.

3 The idea that it’s – whether it’s towers of single family – West Brickell already has towers that are 

4 in your district, and this is a one block shift—

5 Commissioner Carollo: Very few—

6 Commissioner Russell: Theoretically—

7 Commissioner Russell: — it’s a two-block area —

8 Commissioner Russell: It’s true, it’s very few. It’s very true. 

9 Commissioner King: Okay Commissioner Russell.

10 Commissioner Russell: And so my motion is to adopt my version of the map with only –

11 it doesn’t include Brickell City Center, for example, it uses Miami Avenue —

12 Commissioner Carollo: Of course, you want that still there in your district. 

13 Commissioner Russell: I’m okay either way, whichever portion as long as it just meets the 

14 needs of the map, it wasn’t my request to do it that way, but it only grabs enough to be as like your 

15 district in demographic, normalize the populations better than any other draft, and it does not make 

16 a difference between the North Grove and that piece of West Brickell to your voter base. And so 

17 if there is a reason not to do it goes beyond those reasons and I can’t help that. So —

18 Commissioner King: Let’s get the motion on the table, what is your motion. 

19 Commissioner Russell: A combination of my draft and your draft, giving your section back 

20 to the Wharf north of the river, everything else is De Grandy’s original draft, and south of the river 

21 is my draft.

22 Commissioner King: Do I have a second? Now we were faced with this before.

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I have a motion. 

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1 Commissioner King: I can, oh we got a motion on it. 

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla : I move that we adopt Mr. De Grandy’s original —

3 Commissioner King: Wait wait, we still, we have, we gotta deal with, we have —

4 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thought we didn’t have a second.

5 Commissioner King: I’m gonna make a statement. 

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Oh okay, I’m sorry.

7 Commissioner King: I can make a motion for the second but in reading the tea leaves,

8 Commissioner Russell, I’m gonna make the motion for the second. All in favor?

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No Ma’am, we have to have debate, doesn’t work. This 

10 has to be —

11 Commissioner King: You wanna have, you want some more debate, I mean —

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Of course, well yeah, because it’s important to point out,

13 and I think Commissioner Carollo hit the nail on the head. The same way that he fought back in 

14 1997 to make sure this Commission has an African American representative and a white 

15 representative, to have a diverse Commission and a diverse city. What Mr. Russell’s plans – what 

16 Mr. Russell’s plan does, down the line, not in 2022, but in 2026 or ’27, is disintegrate that Hispanic 

17 district, District 3. Because I would venture to say and then we’ll have a minority-Hispanic 

18 Commission in a majority-Hispanic city. How’s that democracy, how does that work? If we have 

19 at-large districts, then all five would be Hispanic Americans and that would not be fair.

20 So, District 3, by moving it east – and it’s not my district, by the way, my district is in the 

21 middle. I can’t go north, because if I go north I jeopardize the African American seat. So I’m good, 

22 I’m gonna get placed, I’m right in the middle. But I look at the future, and I looked at my district 

23 will remain the same, whoever replaces me. That Commissioner Reyes’ district will remain a 

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1 Hispanic American seat. But Commissioner Carollo’s district, whoever replaces him, it’s 

2 jeopardized to having an Hispanic American commissioner. And that’s wrong. There’s no one 

3 here, me and you Commissioner Russell, that can argue this Commission should be majority non4 Hispanic. The same way that we fought for you [looking at Commissioner King] Madam Chair, to 

5 be there, same way we fought for you [looking at Commissioner Russell] to be there, you have to 

6 fight for the majority of the city.

7 And Commission District 3 will be compromised severely, I think Mr. De Grandy can 

8 attest to what will happen, because I would venture to say, I would guess, I think it’s a pretty 

9 educated guess, that if Mr. De Grandy’s original plan would’ve gone to Brickell, that Brickellites

10 would be here instead of Groveites. We don’t wanna be part of Little Havana! Because no one 

11 here can argue that Brickell and those high rise buildings where all the transplants is coming to, 

12 have anything in common with East Little Havana. And if any – have you guys ever been to East 

13 Little Havana, I’m sure you’ve been to Brickell, but if you haven’t been – go to East Little Havana?

14 And see the difference. How is that cohesiveness? How are those communities of interest? You’re 

15 shifting the balance of power in a Hispanic district to the east, you’re jeopardizing its future. And 

16 that’s why it’s wrong, Madam Chair. And that’s why it deserves debate. Because it’s not about me 

17 and it’s not about Commissioner Carollo, or Reyes, or Russell, or you. It’s about this Commission,

18 the future of this Commission, the future of this city.

19 We are able to make good decisions here because we have diversity. Because we have you, 

20 and we have Commissioner Russell, and we have generational change differences, and we come 

21 from different economic backgrounds, different parts of the city, these things work. They may not 

22 be pretty all the time, you know making sausage is not pretty all the time either but it tastes 

23 delicious. It may not be pretty, but it’s important to have this, these different groups representing 

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1 the rest of the city. I’m gonna vote against it, if you wanna vote for it, vote for it, but I’m telling 

2 you, this vote jeopardizes the Hispanic American seat and that’s as discriminatory as anything else 

3 we can do up here. And I cannot do that and ever support that. 

4 Commissioner Carollo: Madam Chair, just a couple more minutes briefly. Commissioner 

5 Russell, you’re running for the U.S. Senate —

6 Commissione Russell: Here we go.

7 Commissioner Carollo: Prior to that you were running for Congress. I think part of the 

8 problem we have in our government is that half the people that we have here don’t like the job 

9 they have and wanna leave us. But you’re supposed to leave your position by, I think, January of 

10 next year. You’re supposed to resign in a certain time and I don’t know if it’s July or August, you 

11 have time, Mr. City Clerk? 

12 Mr. Hannon: June 3rd.

13 Commissioner Carollo: June 3rd, now I don’t believe that you’re gonna resign. Let’s say 

14 for the sake of —

15 Commissioner Russell: Madam Chair, just like my house is irrelevant to this —

16 Commissioner Carollo: No, it is relevant to this conversation. Because if you resign like 

17 you’re supposed to and you lose your primary, then you would’ve packed District 3 with the kind 

18 of voters that you think would be amicable to you and then you can move into District 3 and then 

19 you can run again for the Commission. When I’m not around. 

20 Commissioner Russell: I wish I had —

21 Commissioner Carollo: When I’m not around —

22 Commissioner Russell: The political genius that you have to think of these things. 

23 Commissioner Carollo: No, no, no —

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1 Commissioner King: Okay, okay —

2 Commissioner Carollo: I’ve seen enough that I know that you are not as dumb as you try 

3 to pretend you are —

4 Commissioner King: Okay, okay, let’s let’s move along. We have a motion and a second, 

5 do we have any more discussion.

6 Commissioner Reyes: Madam.

7 Commissioner King: Commissioner Reyes.

8 Commissioner Reyes: I wanna I clarify what is the motion? And also, I totally oppose 

9 moving District 3 east. Totally, totally oppose that.

10 Commissioner Russell: Why?

11 Commissioner Reyes: Moving I mean getting population from —

12 Commissioner Russell: He’s wrong. Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla’s statement is 

13 wrong, it does not —

14 Commissioner King: Commissioner Russell —

15 Commissioner Russell: Does not dilute the Hispanic vote —

16 Commissioner King: Commissioner Russell. 

17 Commissioner Reyes: I said I’m totally opposed —

18 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Let’s ask our expert. Because last time I checked —

19 Commissioner King: Where is the city manager? Where’s the city manager. Hold on, hold 

20 on. 

21 Commissioner Reyes: Listen to me. 

22 Commissioner King: Listen listen listen, Commissioner Reyes has the floor. Guys, we can 

23 only speak one at a time. Where is the manager, when will I get the thing so I can cut everybody’s 

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1 mic off? So, Commissioner Reyes, go ahead. 

2 Commissioner Reyes: That’s right, I am totally opposed. That means that I don’t agree,

3 with getting population from the east of District 3 and moving it into District 3. Because 

4 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla, he made a statement which is true, you see. You have to know 

5 what is the population, the movement, the tendency of the population, how it is moving. And the 

6 tendency is to come from Brickell going east, okay? So, the only way that we can, I mean from 

7 District 3 – District 2 that we can get population to District 3, it is south of District 3, that’s it.

8 Okay, and that’s why I did agree with – which was your first suggestion, to move the – I mean 

9 from what it is now, move it east to Bay Heights and all this. Which is, by the way close to 52% 

10 Hispanic. Okay?

11 Commissioner King: Okay, so we have mo —

12 Commissioner Russell: Madam Chair, at least two commissioners here have asked for Mr. 

13 De Grandy to address this inconsistency because that is affecting Commissioner Reyes’ vote, it’s 

14 clearly affecting Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla’s vote and I appreciate your second, but it only 

15 means something if you and I together try to convince a third.

16 Commissioner King: Mr. De Grandy, can you —

17 Commissioner Carollo: But —

18 Commissioner King: Can you —

19 Commissioner Carollo: Chair —

20 Commissioner King: Can you —

21 Commissioner Carollo: Chair —

22 Commissioner King: Can you address the discrepancy?

23 Commissioner Carollo: Chair, I have to bring this up. And this is so irrelevant, whatever 

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1 answer he gives you, because as I stated before, the problem if you take the 1,597 in that sliver in 

2 what you now call the West Grove away from District 4, that means you gotta pack even more,

3 close to 3,000 people, in addition to the 1,400, District 3. So you through it of balance completely.

4 So —

5 Commissioner King: I understand, but two commissioners asked for Mr. De Grandy to 

6 answer a question and I’m trying to be fair, so let Mr. De Grandy answer the question.

7 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, but he’s gonna have to answer it then and all – from what 

8 you have that we did in the last plan, all the way into the West Brickell to accomplish the additional 

9 votes, if you’re not gonna put any in District 4.

10 Miguel De Grandy: To answer the question, and I’ll tell you what I have told you in 

11 previous meetings. The reason I did not go east when I was doing District 3 is because I found the 

12 population to be dissimilar. It was approximately forty-some percent Hispanic, going into a district 

13 that’s approximately 88% Hispanic. Now, what I did in the base plan was take small areas of 

14 population south of US 1 when I was authorized specifically by resolution of this Commission to 

15 go south of US 1. I put initially in my initial plan – to go to Commissioner Reyes’ point – I had 

16 gone Bay Heights and up to Simpson Park, that was about 1,300 people. When there was questions 

17 about whether we should put Bay Heights in or not, I took it out and then went south further down 

18 from Alatka Avenue, which is the wall of Bay Heights, down to take the equivalent amount of 

19 population that I had taken out when I did Bay Heights up to Simpson Park. Approximately thirteen 

20 hundred and something individuals. Now, in any of the plans is District 3 still a majority Hispanic 

21 district? The answer is yes. Is it stronger Hispanic district under the base plan, absolutely. 

22 Commissioner King: Comm—

23 Commissioner Carollo: And can you stay up there for a second. 

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1 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, don’t leave. 

2 Commissioner Carollo: If I can ask him another question on that?

3 Commissioner King: Wait Commissioner Russell. 

4 Commissioner Russell: Thank you.

5 Commissioner King: I just saw his hand first, not out of anything.

6 Commissioner Carollo: No, no that’s fine. 

7 Commissioner Russell: Mr. De Grandy, you mentioned that the Brickell portion was 40% 

8 Hispanic, it would be going into a 80% Hispanic District 3, what about the Natoma and Bay 

9 Heights areas, what is their Hispanic population?

10 Miguel De Grandy: The, for example the movement done by Commissioner Reyes, which 

11 is—

12 Commissioner Carollo: Simpson Park. 

13 Commissioner Russell: No, no. Not — what Commissioner Carollo’s argument about 

14 Commissioner Reyes giving up that portion in the West Grove, the Bird Avenue portion, is now 

15 nullified because Commissioner Reyes offered that and nobody’s challenging that part. So, we do 

16 have to find the additional number. The only question is whether that number comes from the 

17 North Grove or the West Brickell area. So my question to you is what is the Hispanic population 

18 percentage of the North Grove?

19 Miguel De Grandy: Of the North Grove —

20 Commissioner Russell: Whether you take it Natoma or you take it Bay Heights, what is 

21 that percentage?

22 Miguel De Grandy: I don’t have that available. 

23 Commissioner Russell: I need that percentage because you’re telling me it’s 40 in West 

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1 Brickell. If it is 35 in Natoma, then the argument goes back to my side that it is better for District 

2 3 to take a piece of West Brickell then Bay Heights. However, if it’s the flip and it’s a 50% 

3 Hispanic in Bay Heights, then maybe Commissioner Carollo’s argument has more merit. So, I 

4 need that number.

5 Miguel De Grandy: The – to answer your question, other than, you give me an area and I’ll 

6 go to the computer, Commissioner Reyes’ proposal which takes Bay Heights and goes up slightly 

7 past Simpson Park is 51% Hispanic. So, it’s more Hispanic then moving straight east into Brickell.

8 And now, again, that is additional population going into D3. The population that I brought into D3 

9 was roughly 1,300 people. The population that is coming into D3 from Commissioner Reyes’ plan 

10 is more than that, and from yours is more than that also.

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Madam Chair, may I? 

12 Commissioner King: Sure, please? 

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thank you. Mr. De Grandy, let’s extrapolate a little bit. 

14 When you went through that Brickell area, I’m sure you looked at Commissioner Russell’s – but 

15 first of all how many redistricting plans have you done over the decades? 

16 Miguel De Grandy: Too many to remember. I’ve done congressional, I’ve done state, I’ve 

17 done house, I’ve done school board, I’ve done municipal, I’ve done City of Miami twice already, 

18 this is my third time.

19 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: So, you can say you’re an expert. 

20 Miguel De Grandy: Some people would say that, yeah. 

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And I’m sure you did your due diligence, your hard 

22 work to come up with a base plan, the initial plan. 

23 Miguel De Grandy: Correct. 

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1 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And I’m sure you went through all those census tracts, 

2 and you went through the whole process and you said this is the best way to do it, and along the 

3 way you probably looked, I would guess, you’ll tell me if I’m wrong. You probably looked at 

4 some buildings in the West Brickell area that are already there, you probably looked at those 

5 populations and what constitutes those populations. 

6 Miguel De Grandy: Yes. 

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And you probably found, I would guess, tell me if I’m 

8 wrong, that those buildings that are now inhabited are predominantly Anglo, most people have 

9 moved from New York down here, and are predominantly – for lack of a better expression – not 

10 similar like voters or similar voters to East Little Havana voters. Is that correct? 

11 Miguel De Grandy: I wouldn’t say predominantly Anglo, I would say about almost even 

12 money between Hispanic and Anglo and I can’t testify as to the demographics of who’s moving 

13 down but it is markedly different than the population in District 3. 

14 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And as a result, you decided that the best move will be 

15 to go south and not to go east, because there are more people in Bay Heights that are more similar 

16 to the people that live behind Casola’s Pizza for example, right? Than to the people that live at 

17 Brickell and East Little Havana. 

18 Miguel De Grandy: That’s right. 

19 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay, so you made based on your experience and your 

20 knowledge and your decades of experience, you made a decision to go south.

21 Miguel De Grandy: Correct. 

22 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I mean Commissioner, with all due respect, who’s never 

23 done redistricting, who’s fighting for his community, as he should, as we would fight for ours, as 

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1 we fight for ours. As we also, I wasn’t here but Commissioner Carollo was here, how we also 

2 sacrificed communities for the greater good. So, they decided back then, [looking at Commissioner 

3 Carollo] he decided back then and the Commission back then, that the greater good, a greater 

4 Miami, a united Miami – there’s no city of Flagami. There’s no city of Allapattah. There’s no city 

5 of Coconut Grove. For the greater good prevails, or should. Logic, right? And so he decided it was 

6 a greater good for Miami, right, to create single member districts and have an African American 

7 and have a white on our City Commission.

8 And you decided that doing this is the best thing to do is to find, and you can extrapolate 

9 what’s going to happen to Miami, what’s happening to Miami. How Miami is changing and where 

10 the change is occurring. So, when you have a high rise of 62 stories in Downtown Miami and you 

11 see who’s moved into those high rises that’ve already gone up. What’s gonna happen when we do 

12 the next redistricting. Or the next election? Or the one after that one before the next redistricting.

13 Those community – City Commission 3 will be severely compromised and we’re gonna have to 

14 come back here and have a debate – I may not be here, I may – or lawsuit. Or whatever it takes.

15 Or even pass a resolution and ordinance that makes it at-large. Cause if you don’t care about the 

16 greater – some people here and I’m not saying everyone, doesn’t care about the greater Miami?

17 Are we going to do it then? It’s our responsibility. Commissioner Carollo when he was Mayor 

18 Carollo decided, let me finish. Decided that it’s the right thing to do for the greater Miami, for the 

19 greater good of Miami. And he broke up Hispanic neighborhood after Hispanic neighborhood 

20 cause he had to for the greater good. We’ve had a number of people here that are arguing for their 

21 community and I respect that. They should. But I’m here for Miami, even though I represent a 

22 district, I care all of Miami. And Commissioner Carollo cares about the future of Miami and the 

23 future of District 3, more importantly, which will impact the future of Miami.

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1 So, you went south because you though it was a fair thing to do, the right thing to do, and 

2 you and you also because you have experience. You said, hey, I’m extrapolating what could 

3 happen down the line to say ten year, we’re stuck with this, unless we sue, for ten years, you said 

4 to yourself, hey you know what? It makes sense to go south. And you didn’t only go south in City 

5 Commission 3, you went south in City Commission 4. You knew that’s where you had to go. Not 

6 east. And that’s why I’m not inclined to support this because it’s wrong. It’s wrong for our city,

7 Madam Chair, and you of all people should understand that, it’s wrong, it’s wrong when we – when 

8 others fight for other communities in this city and now turn around and jeopardize a Hispanic 

9 American seat down the line.

10 Commissioner King: Thank you. Commissioner, hold on one second.

11 Commissioner Reyes: I just wanna ask —

12 Commissioner King: Commissioner Reyes, one second. May we take a five minute recess.

13 Commissioner Reyes: Break? Yes, Ma’am. 

14 Commissioner King: I think all of us need to. 

15 [Recess]

16 Commissioner King: The meeting is back in order, in session. I believe we had a motion 

17 and a second, is there any other further discussion, are we ready to vote on this motion?

18 Commissioner Reyes: Which one is the motion? 

19 Commissioner King: The motion is Commissioner Russell’s motion, can you um —

20 Commissioner Russell: Yes.

21 Commissioner King: Repeat your motion please. 

22 Commissioner Russell: Yes, and the only thing I was waiting on if Mr. De Grandy can 

23 possibly give it to me is the Hispanic demographic of the Natoma or Bay Heights areas. Because 

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1 Commissioner Reyes’ district – proposal includes that entire section along South Miami Avenue 

2 and so I don’t know – that’s in mine as well. So, the only differentiating factor is that section of 

3 Bay Heights or Natoma Manors and I need to know what the Hispanic demographic is.

4 Commissioner King: Hold on a second. 

5 Commissioner Carollo: I’m ready to vote. 

6 Miguel De Grandy: Commissioner, when you’re say the —. 

7 Commissioner King: Hold on —

8 Commissioner Russell: We’re voting with incomplete information. 

9 Commissioner King: Hold on, hold on. 

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Can I call the question? 

11 Commissioner King: Hold on. Hold on. Vice Chair, you were saying something, oh this is 

12 off. You were saying something, Vice Chair?

13 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, if we’re gonna get into more questions with Mr. De Grandy 

14 —

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, microphone. 

16 Commissioner Carollo: If we’re gonna get into more questions with Mr. De Grandy I had 

17 the floor before you asked for the five-minute recess. Now —

18 Commissioner King: Sorry.

19 Commissioner Carollo: No but I just suggest, look, let’s vote on this, you know, Ken, you, 

20 you have a habit that when you see that, you know, the horse won’t go to water, you wanna keep 

21 whipping and whipping, he’s still ain’t gonna drink the water. 

22 Commissioner Russell: Just looking for truth. 

23 Commissioner Carollo: Okay, so well – that’s what I’ve been doing when I’ve been asking 

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1 when you’re moving out of the sweetheart deal you got there running. 

2 Commissioner Russell: I’m moving into your house. 

3 Commissioner Carollo: You can stay with me tonight, I’ll cut you a heck of a deal, instead 

4 of 16,000, 8,000, how about that, you’ve got five bathrooms, isn’t that the reason that you said you 

5 sold it.?

6 Commissioner King: Okay.

7 Commissioner Carollo: You needed a second toilet? You get five with mine. 

8 Commissioner Russell: I’m not as rich as you. 

9 Commissioner King: Okay, we are going to – there’s a call to question, Mr. De Grandy, do 

10 you have the information readily at hand. 

11 Miguel De Grandy: No, Ma’am. 

12 Commissioner Russell: Okay.

13 Miguel De Grandy: I can get the information, I don’t have it readily at hand, no. 

14 Commissioner King: Okay, we’re gonna call the question. All in favor? 

15 Commissioner Russell: Aye

16 Commissioner King: All against?

17 Commissioner Carollo: No.

18 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No. 

19 Commissioner Reyes: No.

20 Commissioner King: Motion fails.

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’d like to make a motion, Madam Chair. 

22 Commissioner King: Wait a second, motion fails, 4 to 1. 

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’d like to make a motion. 

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1 Commissioner King: Go ahead.

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thank you. I move that we adopt the De Grandy base 

3 plan with the following exceptions. We accept Commissioner Reyes’ desire to have the Grove 

4 returned back to the Grove. We respect your desire to have the Wharf in your district. With those 

5 changes, and any tweaks that you may need to do to adjust variations along the way, that’s my 

6 motion. 

7 Commissioner Reyes: I second.

8 Commissioner King: There’s a motion and a second. Any discussion on the item. 

9 Miguel De Grandy: I need to tell you if the motion is bring in the Wharf, that has no 

10 population, doesn’t affect my deviation. If we are taking out the 1,597, it disbalances the plan —

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: From District 4.

12 Miguel De Grandy: Right, it disbalances the plan, it exceeds a 10% overall deviation —

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That we return the Grove to District 2 from the District 

14 4 portion of it. 

15 Commissioner Carollo: But then, the problem that you have is that District 3 is gonna be 

16 fully imbalanced.

17 Commissioner King: So, let’s —

18 Commissioner Carollo: So, I gotta take —

19 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, District 3 remains as in the original plan. 

20 Commissioner Carollo: It can’t. 

21 Miguel De Grandy: No, it cannot.

22 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, that’s what I was explaining before.

23 Miguel De Grandy: That is why, in Commissioner Reyes’ plan, we had to move an 

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1 additional 2,280 people into District 3 to balance the population.

2 Commissioner Carollo: It’s actually more than that. 

3 Commissioner Reyes: Why do you have to —

4 Commissioner King: Hold on, hold on, through the Chair. Lets.

5 Commissioner Reyes: I mean through the Chair. 

6 Commissioner King: Because Vice Chair was speaking, let’s do this through the Chair so 

7 it’s orderly and —

8 Commissioner Reyes: Through the Chair, why is there is only 1,500, 1,400 people or 600 

9 whatever, you have to move 2,600. 

10 Miguel De Grandy: That’s a good question. The current overall deviation in my base plan 

11 has District 2 at 5.46 and then the lowest district was 2.14 that gave me a 7.6 overall deviation. If 

12 you take the 1,597 out of your plan, your plan, your district becomes below mark at 3.9. But I’m 

13 putting two additional percentages into District 2. So, now I’m at eleven-something percent. To 

14 get it down below, I need to put actually more population into District 3 than just the 1,597, because 

15 my parameters of who is a low and who is the high, the high remains the same, remains District 2,

16 but at two percentage points higher. And yours dropped to close to 4%. Before, yours was not the 

17 low mark, now yours is, so it disbalances the plan to a greater degree than just the 1,597 because 

18 you’re kinda doubling the impact. You’re taking 1,597 out of yours, which makes your deviation 

19 much lower, you’re adding that 1,597 to what’s already the high deviation. So, I have to put almost,

20 you know —

21 Commissioner Reyes: That’s not what I understood when we, when I told you take it out, 

22 that’s not what I understood. I thought that you would take only those 1,500 and you will find them 

23 along the line.

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1 Miguel De Grandy: And we did, we took Bay Heights and we went all the way past 

2 Simpson Park to get you down below the 10%. 

3 Commissioner Carollo: West Brickell, you went to. You had to go to West Brickell.

4 Commissioner Reyes: No, you went to West Brickell. 

5 Commissioner Carollo: And 1,800 of the votes came from West Brickell. 

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And you can’t go anywhere else?

7 Miguel De Grandy: But that’s the thing —

8 Commissioner King: Through the Chair, because I don’t want all of us talking in at one 

9 time and then it’s lost in translation. 

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: If you can’t, may I? 

11 Commissioner King: Yes. 

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: If you can’t solve it that way, and I don’t know if you’re 

13 amenable to this Madam Chair, or not, we can just go back to the base plan. We go back to the 

14 base plan and we incorporate the Wharf into yours, and we leave the base plan as originally 

15 presented to us, as-is.

16 Commissioner King: If that is the will of the body, if there’s a motion for that, I think we 

17 have a motion and a second on the floor. 

18 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’ll make that motion. 

19 Commissioner King: Let’s, but wait —

20 Commissioner Reyes: No you have to—

21 Commissioner King: We have to dispose of the motion that’s on the floor now. So, let’s 

22 dispose of the motion on the floor now, there’s a motion and a second. All in favor?

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Aye.

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1 Commissioner Russell: Chair, what’s the motion?

2 Commissioner Carollo: No, no. 

3 Commissioner King: You’re not aye.

4 Miguel De Grandy: Madam Chair. 

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, no. 

6 Commissioner King: Yes.

7 Miguel De Grandy: I need to put on the record. 

8 Commissioner King: Hold on, hold on, the clerk has his hand up, I’m doing something 

9 wrong. 

10 Mr. Hannon: No, no, so yes, there was a motion by Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla, 

11 seconded by Commissioner Reyes, you’ll withdraw —

12 Commissioner King: Oh he’s withdrawing —

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I withdrew the motion.

14 Commissioner King: Withdrawing the motion. 

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And file a new, propose a new motion. 

16 Commissioner King: Okay. 

17 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That takes it back to its original plan, incorporating the 

18 Wharf into District 5.

19 Commissioner King: Is there a second?

20 Commissioner Russell: The original base plan —

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yes.

22 Commissioner Russell: Which would take Commissioner Reyes’ piece back out of District 

23 2.

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1 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yes.

2 Commissioner Russell: From the West Grove, everyone that was thanking you all today, 

3 will take back that thank you because that West Grove piece is going back to D4, is that right? 

4 Commissioner Reyes: I understand what the motion is. 

5 Commissioner Russell: I didn’t, I’m just trying to get it clear. 

6 Commissioner Carollo: Don’t play this —

7 Commissioner Russell: I wanted to be clear —

8 Commissioner Carollo: Pressure power play on Commissioner Reyes. 

9 Commissioner Reyes: No, no nobody —

10 Commissioner Carollo: Because he did not understand before that by taking 1,600 out, he 

11 was gonna have to be putting some 3,000 into District 3.

12 Commissioner King: Okay, so we have a motion, we have a second —

13 Commissioner Carollo: So, actually, by him doing that, more the Grove was going to be 

14 taken away than by going with the original plan and Mr. De Grandy made after, he adjusted it —

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Correct. 

16 Commissioner Carollo: When this Commission heard the original one that he presented. 

17 Commissioner King: Okay, my mic is off. Alrighty so there’s a motion and a second. Any 

18 further discussion? All in favor? 

19 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Aye.

20 Commissioner Carollo: Aye.

21 Commissioner Reyes: No.

22 Commissioner King: Commissioner Reyes, no? Do you understand what the motion is? 

23 Commissioner Reyes: Yes, but I still think that —

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1 Commissioner King: We can’t hear you. 

2 Commissioner Reyes: No, I stand with my proposal. And I think that probably something 

3 can be done and that’s it, you can vote yes, and we are out of here.

4 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah, I’m done.

5 Commissioner Reyes: There’s three votes only. 

6 Commissioner King: I know, I understand the three votes, but the concession that you’re 

7 giving for the Grove and now you won’t have that. 

8 Commissioner Reyes: What do you mean concession to the Grove? 

9 Commissioner King: With you giving you’re portion to the Grove, that’s not what’s on the 

10 table right now. 

11 Commissioner Reyes: But it’s on the table —

12 Commissioner King: The original plan —

13 Commissioner Reyes: The original plan and takes that concession that I was given to —

14 Commissioner King: Yes. 

15 Commissioner Reyes: Takes it out. 

16 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, but wait a minute, what concession to the Grove? 

17 Commissioner Reyes: Concession, no. 

18 Commissioner King: He —

19 Commissioner Carollo: You’re taking 1,600 from your district, but you’re taking another 

20 1,800 from the Grove. 

21 Commissioner Reyes: Yeah. 

22 Commissioner Carollo: So, what are you doing to the Grove, you’re taking more from the 

23 Grove. 

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1 Commissioner Reyes: I’m not taking anything —

2 Commissioner Carollo: You are taking more from the Grove. 

3 Commissioner Reyes: Hold on, you don’t have to raise your voice at me —

4 Commissioner King: Wait okay, right. 

5 Commissioner Reyes: Hold on a second.

6 Commissioner King: Okay, let’s not raise our voice. 

7 Commissioner Reyes: No, don’t tell raise your voice at me, okay.

8 Commissioner Reyes: What I’m saying is this, what I said before, you see, that I did not 

9 want to represent that area. 

10 Commissioner King: Mm-mmm. 

11 Commissioner Reyes: That now that was 1,500. Commissioner Carollo’s is what you are 

12 saying, without raising your voice, it is that by me doing that, okay, it makes it worse for the Grove.

13 And that’s true. Because now we have to get back. Since I give my word, I’m never gonna go back 

14 on it. As of now.

15 Commissioner King: All right, so the motion is on the floor, there was. Aye.

16 Commissioner King: All against. 

17 Commissioner Russell: No. 

18 Commissioner King: All against?

19 Commissioner Reyes: Against. 

20 Commissioner King: 3-2.

21 Mr. Hannon: Yes, Ma’am, 3-2 with Commissioner Russell and Commissioner Reyes 

22 voting no. 

23 Commissioner King: We still have – that will conclude this redistricting meeting.

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1 Miguel De Grandy: Ma’am, before you conclude —

2 Commissioner King: I just concluded.

3 Miguel De Grandy: Just let me explain what we would propose to do now is we will finalize 

4 that plan, we will create a report based on that plan and we will bring that back to your City 

5 Attorney. So, I would guess she would want to put it in the form of resolution so that it can be 

6 formally adopted by this Commission and then we become the redistricting plan. 

7 Commissioner King: Okay, well we still —

8 Victoria Méndez: Right, it’s just a procedural thing. You just made a vote, we’re gonna 

9 draft the resolution, you will give us the maps as attachments. You don’t have to come back.

10 Commissioner King: And then we have to vote for it as a final plan?

11 Commissioner Carollo: Isn’t this what we’re doing today. 

12 Commissioner Russell: I thought that was it.

13 Commissioner King: Well they said —

14 City Attorney Victoria Méndez: We don’t need to come back anymore. 

15 Commissioner King: Oh.

16 Victoria Méndez: You’ve made your vote; he was just, it was just procedural on how –

17 logistics.

18 Commissioner King: Okay, got it. 

19 Victoria Méndez: They just voted, we draft the resolution based on their vote, you give us 

20 the attachments, and it becomes a finalized, they finally voted. 

21 Commissioner Carollo: No additional votes. 

22 Victoria Méndez: No additional vote needed. 

23 Commissioner King: Okay, so we still have the remainder of the Commission meeting left, 

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1 do you want —

2 Mr. Hannon: 60 seconds, I just need to flip the tape. 

3 Commissioner King: Right, do you wanna —

4 Commissioner Carollo: Can we take a ten —

5 Commissioner King: Ten-minute break and we’ll come back at 6:15.

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