Meeting Transcript 4B

Miami City Commission

February 25, 2022

Afternoon Session

Transcript of excerpt of video recording available at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGpJfW1UJs

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1 Mr. De Grandy: I need to address and clarify a couple of issues that were made. First of 

2 all, the gentleman representing the ACLU talked about packing District 5.

3 Commissioner Christine King: Cracking, I wrote that down. 

4 Mr. De Grandy: No, no, the first one was packing, and I’ll get to cracking in a minute. 

5 Commissioner King: Okay.

6 Mr. De Grandy: It was hard for me to understand that, and especially from a representative 

7 of the ACLU, for the following reason. What they’re basically saying is I put too many Black folks 

8 into District 5. Now, if they cited, for example, the registration data and to say, well look, Black 

9 representation in the last election was 55%, and you’re just looking at total population, which I got 

10 to 52%, and voting age, which I got to 50.3. Well, but the issue is, I’m not looking at creating a 

11 plan that will perform for the Black community just in the next election, I’m trying to create a plan 

12 that performs for the community for a decade. And I know that this community is subject to some 

13 degree of gentrification. And so, to me, the most important thing is to put, you know, the district 

14 in a position that complies with the Voting Rights Act.

15 Now, let me give you an example of real packing so that you understand what the real 

16 concept means which is not what was described today. And I’ll give you an exa— a real world 

17 example when I was in the Legislature and I was suing my own Legislature for violations of the 

18 Voting Rights Act. It took Hialeah, the most Hispanic city in the state of Florida, placed it in one

19 district okay? And that district was overwhelmingly Hispanic, and will elect a person of that 

20 community’s choice. But if you took Hialeah, broke it into two, you could create two Hispanic21 majority districts with that population. And so, when you put all of it into one, that’s packing, and 

22 so for packing to be even a consideration, you have to show that you have enough excess 

23 population that you could’ve created a different district. And with 50.3% Black population, I can’t 

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1 draw anything else but one African American district, so packing doesn’t apply.

2 Now let me talk about cracking. Cracking is when you intentionally divide a cohesive and 

3 compact minority community so as to defeat the ability of that minority community to form a 

4 majority in a single member district. Now I’ll use that same example of Hialeah, if I break Hialeah 

5 into four and put those populations into four separate districts, none of those districts has a majority 

6 Hispanic population, none of them have, in that community, an equal opportunity to elect a 

7 candidate of choice. That’s cracking. Cracking in this case, with all due respect, in District 2 is 

8 simply inapplicable because District 2 —

9 Commissioner Joe Carollo: Not protected.

10 Mr. De Grandy: Is not the first district in terms of Black percentage, it’s not even the 

11 second, the second is District 1. It is the third at 7.5% Black population and so there is no way 

12 humanly possible that you could put that population anywhere based on our geography to create 

13 an African American district. So, cracking also does not apply and and and in that I wanted to just 

14 give you same some data. Of the 1,597 residents we moved from D2, only 7% are African 

15 American. So, we actually moved more Black citizens in the movement we did north of US 1 into 

16 D4 than in the movement we did south of US 1 in the into D4.

17 And I’ll finally say this, you know, I saw two alternate plans presented. The difference 

18 between those plans and our plans is that our plan is based on the directives that you gave us and 

19 so the alternate proposals, for example, they put up some criteria, had different criteria from what 

20 you gave me. Now, that does not mean that those plans aren’t perfectly legally acceptable and as 

21 a matter of fact I have told you in previous hearings there are thousands of ways to draw a 

22 constitutionally compliant plan. The difference between those plans and the plan that we presented 

23 was what was the criteria employed. And with that Madam Chair, I’m happy to answer any 

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1 questions. 

2 Commissioner King: Thank you, how I’m going to conduct the remainder of this meeting 

3 is that I’m going to go to my Vice Chair and then I’m going to go in order of the districts, from 1, 

4 2, 3 and I’m gonna ask that we keep our comments, our first round of comments to no more than 

5 15 minutes. As it’s a Friday — great okay.

6 Commissioner Carollo: Look, what I’m most amazed at is that when we created districts 

7 from the get-go, and then the redistricting that has been done each decade, every 10 years, we have 

8 purposely divided neighborhoods in the other districts to try to keep District 2 into a district that a 

9 non-Hispanic would be elected. And that’s why Coconut Grove was kept together. In fact, from 

10 the beginning, a big chunk across US 1 was given to Coconut Grove because there would not have

11 been enough population to balance it out otherwise in District 2. Nobody objected to that at the 

12 time, nobody objected to numerous neighborhoods in the city of Miami in having been divided.

13 Like someone send me recently on Silver Bluff some some information and the history of 

14 it which was interesting, this is from an old newspaper article I believe is a short history of Silver 

15 Bluff platted in 1941 incorporated in 1920 — excuse me platted in 1911 and incorporated in 1921 

16 the town of Silver Bluff. Was independent for a short period of time, it was one of several 

17 municipalities that was annexed by the city of Miami in 1925. Nestled between Miami’s original 

18 southern boundary and the town of Coconut Grove. Silver Bluff is named for the bluff located 

19 along the eastern edge of the quarter that appears silver when touched by morning light. And Silver 

20 Bluff is one of those communities that was split in half to be able to create a District 2 that would 

21 elect someone like Mr. Russell —

22 Commissioner Ken Russell: Japanese American. 

23 Commissioner Carollo: I didn’t hear — well you didn’t quite mention the Oriental part 

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1 when you were running, only the yo-yo at the time. But I’ll leave it at that. It was the — after you 

2 got elected that I guess it was more convenient, the — but Silver Bluff, Shenandoah, Little Havana,

3 I mean Little Havana has really been kept major, Little Havana goes to 37th Avenue, so from 27th

4 to 37th Avenue, huge area of Little Havana was cut up. You got Flagami that not originally, but 

5 then when growth came in, Flagami was then cut in the second round I think after districts were 

6 originally created. Down the middle. You got other neighborhoods within District 4, others within 

7 District 1. Some in District 5. So the arguments that I’ve heard here today just don’t hold any 

8 water. As this city grows in population, we have to make adjustments and the adjustments have to 

9 be made in — in the best way to try to keep all five of these districts in proportion to our population 

10 for the reasons that we went into districts. You know the Coconut Grove even has what no other 

11 community in Miami has, a village council. Do you have any councils in any of your 

12 neighborhoods, Commissioner Díaz?

13 Commissioner Alex Díaz de la Portilla: No, I don’t.

14 Commissioner Carollo: Commissioner King, do you have any councils there, 

15 Commissioner Reyes? I have none in in District 3. But Coconut Grove even has that, that this 

16 commission here, commissions past, have have given them. So look, I — I only need from you,

17 for you to answer one question to me. In — in your honest, best opinion, and you’ve been the guy 

18 that really has been the — the real godfather in creating districts, because you’ve been putting 

19 them together for us, very successfully each time that we’ve done it. Do you feel that this is a plan 

20 that would withstand any test in court? 

21 Mr. De Grandy: Yes, sir, I am confident that it meets the requirements of 14th Amendment 

22 and I am confident it meets the requirements of the Voting Rights Act.

23 Commissioner Carollo: Well, then to me that’s all that I need to hear. We have held, unless 

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1 my recollection faults me, three public hearings on this on this dais already —

2 Mr. De Grandy: This is the fourth.

3 Commissioner Carollo: We’re each gonna have a fourth one in each of our individual 

4 districts and then we agreed that March 11, we would have the final one. And, I mean, five 

5 meetings. Is that sufficient for any federal test?

6 Mr. De Grandy: Commissioner, there is no constitutional or statutory requirement to have 

7 public meetings in redistricting, it is optional.

8 Commissioner Carollo: Well, five, I think in any one’s mind, over a period of several 

9 months, is a pretty sufficient amount of time. Now, I understand what — what I’m hearing, I 

10 understand that people that came in here today, they want to have more hearings and more 

11 hearings. And what I’ve learned being up here a few years is that when you hear people trying to 

12 tell you that they wanna have more hearings and more hearings. It’s because they don’t feel that 

13 they had the votes to accomplish what they want and they wanna accomplish by delaying it because

14 through delaying it they’ve accomplished in fact what they want, not to get a vote done. And you 

15 know, out of the people that were here today, there were only 10 people that spoke that were not 

16 from Coconut Grove. 6 out of those 10 were from other parts of District 2, one was from 

17 Edgewater, one was from Morningside, one from Downtown, three from Brickell. There was one 

18 from District 5 that was very confused because they thought that the West Grove was being divided 

19 somehow and that we were diluting the Black population from District 5. There was one, excuse

20 me, two from Commissioner Reyes’ district but I don’t know I should count one of them, because

21 that was Mr. Winker and he’s, you know, an attorney looking for business. So, I won’t be surprised 

22 if he’ll be one of the ones that will be suing the city again. Then there was one from my district 

23 and this gentleman lived, according to what he said, right in the area that is called West Brickell 

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1 that is stripped, the two blocks, that parts of Brickell Avenue were put into District 3, but these

2 were parts that had not been developed. Throughout the years, some of those blocks now are 

3 starting to be developed, and his complaint was that he wanted all of Brickell to be together and 

4 that that part should be with Brickell. And you know what, he probably had a really good point, 

5 the best that I’ve heard, and that’s exactly the reason why you did not expand more, like 

6 Commissioner Russell wanted to, into Brickell, because it’s got nothing to do — if there’s a section 

7 that’s got nothing to do with the rest of District 3, it’s when you go into Brickell. Totally different 

8 in your demographics, any which way you wanna look at it. So, we come back to the original plan 

9 you gave us, the original plan I think you had 6,000+ people from the Grove that were gonna be 

10 moved into either District 4 or District 3. And you did, I think, a fabulous job in in bringing that 

11 down to even less —

12 Mr. De Grandy: Less than 3,000.

13 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, now it’s a less than half that.

14 Mr. De Grandy: Correct. 

15 Commissioner Carollo: It’s right around 3,000 correct?

16 Mr. De Grandy: 2,900 and change.

17 Commissioner Carollo: 2,900 and change, it’s right under 3,000. And you kept, as we 

18 talked about here in doing, the West Grove intact, because that’s really a very small community, 

19 we’re not talking about a large community, so I can understand a very small community like that, 

20 you divide it, it has more of an impact on it than larger communities that had been divided. And 

21 you listened to Commissioner Russell and took Bay Heights out of it. As far as I’m concerned,

22 you can put Bay Heights back on, in fact you could take it all the way down to Simpson Park if 

23 you like. I’ve got no problems with it, but that means you’re gonna have to put some additional 

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1 people from the Grove into another district. I don’t know if Bay Heights is really considered the

2 Grove or not anymore. But I’m not gonna get into that here. So, I — I think that you tried to 

3 accommodate, as much as you could, everything you heard from us here, and what you heard from 

4 the public. That we have to go deeper into District 2, well, when before this, District 2 had a 

5 116,742 people, and the other districts 1 had almost 81,000, mine has over 79,000. District 4 had 

6 almost 82,000 and District 5 had slightly over 83,000. The thumb that really stuck out there was 

7 District 2. And you brought that down by 23,442 votes and you’re leaving them at 93,300. If you 

8 want to even it out more, I’ll take another chunk, I’ll take Bay Heights and I’ll go all the way to 

9 Central Park, I got no problem Commissioner, and I’m sure Commissioner Reyes wouldn’t have 

10 any problem in bringing it down more, maybe even going across and taking the whole North Grove 

11 out, and you know, it’d still be fairly balanced. But his plan was taking into account what he heard 

12 from the public as much as he could and what he heard from you. So, from over 6,000, it’s down 

13 to 3,000 and we — we can’t go anywhere else, even if we would want to go into District 3 in your 

14 plan. Going to West Brickell, which is really Brickell, it just doesn’t have Brickell Avenue, the 

15 name and the road, then what happens to Reyes? Well Reyes is gonna have to come take more 

16 from me or more from Díaz de la Portilla and that’s a domino effect that you have, that will then 

17 affect everyone, including District 5. And that’s why we can’t do that. But anyway, I’m ready to 

18 vote on this, but that’s my opinion.

19 Commissioner King: Thank you. Commissioner?

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m also ready to vote.

21 Number one I want to commend you, Mr. De Grandy, Mr. Cody for the work that you’ve have 

22 done. Your first plan had a few holes in it. Your revised plan looks really good — has one — for 

23 lack of better term, “hole” — I think that you’re overpopulating District 2. And I believe that four

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1 years from now, maybe six years from now, we’re gonna have the same problem before we can 

2 get to redistricting again. So, we’ll have a district that’s represented by a commissioner with many 

3 more people, for example, right now in District 2 we have 93,000 and in District 5 we have 83,000.

4 It’s a 10,000-vote difference, 10,000 vote population difference and that concerns me.

5 Commissioner Carollo: It’s less than 7,000.

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Well it’s 83 to 93 according to you.

7 Commissioner Carollo: No, no it’s District 5 will be now 86,500.

8 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: 86. Okay.

9 Commissioner Carollo: 86,578.

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: It’s still a concerning number, right? I think in an 

11 attempt, and I think a noble attempt, to make sure that you respected as much as you could of the 

12 integrity of the Grove, as they call it, as the Grove calls it, you restored 40% of what you had taken 

13 out of the first plan I think—

14 Mr. De Grandy: Over 50%.

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Over 50, even worse. Over 50%. I agree with 

16 Commissioner Carollo, that we probably should have gone more into the Grove because that’s the 

17 only place to go. Right? I mean I’m in the middle, District 1’s in the middle, you have 3 and 4.

18 You can only go south. But somehow, Grove residents feel they’re not part of Miami. That no one 

19 — no other commissioner can represent them, for whatever reason, you guys got to explain to us 

20 in some appropriate time why you feel that a Commissioner Carollo or a Commissioner Reyes or 

21 a Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla cannot adequately represent you. If I were a Grove resident, I 

22 would love to have three commissioners representing me. I have three people fighting for me. My 

23 God, can you imagine that? Three out of five will be fighting for you instead of one out of five but 

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1 that’s just math, maybe you guys are not understanding how the math works with a five body, a 

2 five-commissioner body. To me, I think the work that you’ve done is commendable, it’s fantastic,

3 I think it hits it. I’m a little bit concerned about the overpopulation of 2, but I, like Commissioner 

4 Carollo, I’m ready to vote, and I’m also ready Madam Chair, when you are ready, to make the 

5 motion to move this plan forward as a final plan, the City of Miami Commission redistricting and 

6 put this behind us [indistinct] work, whenever you’re ready, Madam Chair.

7 Commissioner King: Thank you. Commissioner Russell?

8 Commissioner Ken Russell: Thank you very much. I’m not quite ready to vote, I have some 

9 questions for Mr. De Grandy. And you know in the last — in the last meeting, I made a motion 

10 that failed for a second where I asked for us not to break up the Grove. And I really thought about 

11 that later and I realized that that was the right — that was the right vote. And as people came to 

12 me and what you heard the passion today, my response to them is, as I’ve spoken to people 

13 individually is, we are not entitled to stay together. There is no right of the Grove to stay cohesive.

14 It is the wish, you can see the passion, you can see the interest, and you can see a cohesive voter 

15 block here, you can see a group that is definitely governed by a different set of rules for tree 

16 preservation, historic preservation, development, setbacks, all the Grove does have these special 

17 set of rules that has come about because of their voter bloc cohesion. But there is no right to it. So, 

18 when I didn’t get a second, and in the next vote said, if you have to go into the Grove, I understand 

19 that. And so what I’ve been telling people is, if we have to, we must accept that the Grove would 

20 be split up. If there is no way to legally equalize the districts without going into the Grove, we 

21 should accept that gracefully as residents of the City of Miami. I would like to ask you some 

22 questions, Mr. De Grandy, because I’ve tried to cobble together some of the ideas and to see if 

23 there is a way to meet —

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1 Mr. De Grandy: Yes, sir.

2 Commissioner Russell: The interests of the Grove and still be legally compliant without 

3 upsetting the other equilibriums and without diminishing anything from District 5. And so, just a 

4 couple of questions if you could all bear with me? What is the total number goal to shed from 

5 District 2 to get to full equilibrium where District 2 is not in any overage, what would be 0%? How 

6 many would you need to get rid —

7 Mr. De Grandy: I figure each percentage is 884 roughly. Now 5 times 884 — about 40 —

8 4,800.

9 Commissioner Russell: Would you rather speak in percentage, is that the way —

10 Mr. De Grandy: Either way, you’re looking at about 4,800 residents — I think it was 4,832,

11 but you know I’m 63 years old so sometimes I forget some numbers but —

12 Commissioner Russell: No, I — you might be misunderstanding me. What is the total 

13 number that your goal was to reduce District 2 by? 

14 Mr. De Grandy: To get to get you from where you are?

15 Commissioner Ken Russell: Yes.

16 Mr. De Grandy: At 5.46 back to 0 it would be about 4,800 and change that I would have to 

17 shed.

18 Commissioner Russell: I’m not understanding because even just in the Golden Pines area 

19 we’re taking 10,000 out, right?

20 Mr. De Grandy: Oh you’re talking about the existing District 2?

21 Commissioner Carollo: It’s 27,000.

22 Mr. De Grandy: I’m sorry.

23 Commissioner Russell: Yes, that’s the number I’m trying to get to.

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1 Mr. De Grandy: The existing District 2 is a little north of 28,000.

2 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah.

3 Commissioner Russell: 28,000.

4 Mr. De Grandy: I thought you were talking — I’m sorry, you were talking about this plan.

5 Commissioner Russell: No no no I was I was from where we are current status quo.

6 Mr. De Grandy: Yes sir.

7 Commissioner Russell: 28,000 would — would come down. So, I’ve got a draft map here 

8 and I don’t know if the camera can pick it up for our residents to see it at home, is that possible?

9 Because I can move it if not.

10 Mr. De Grandy: Or you can move it here or forward if you want.

11 Commissioner Russell: Whatever works best. Can the camera pick that up, is that visible?

12 Are the lines visible? I know you know it, Mr. De Grandy, because I showed it to you. So, basically 

13 there’s three sections being given to three different districts. There’s a section here in Golden Pines 

14 north of US 1 given to District 4, there’s a section here on South Miami Avenue being given to 

15 District 3, and then there’s a section of Downtown — above the river — Downtown, Morningside 

16 — not not Morningside — Downtown, Midtown, and Edgewater being given to District 5. Can 

17 you tell me how many — more or less — residents would be coming out of District 2 and going 

18 to District 4 in this section above US 1?

19 Mr. De Grandy: If memory serves, 10,498. 

20 Commissioner Russell: Let me write down. 10,000, just 10,500 for round number’s sake.

21 Mr. De Grandy: Yeah.

22 Commissioner Russell: Yeah roughly.

23 Mr. De Grandy: Roughly.

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1 Commissioner Russell: And then for District 3, if we were to say from the river down to 

2 the Rickenbacker Causeway or down to 32nd, what is about that number?

3 Mr. De Grandy: If it’s down to 32nd, which was the, the one that you asked me to calculate, 

4 you’re looking at 7,068 individuals.

5 Commissioner Russell: 7,068, I’ll just put 7,000 for a round number’s sake, to District 3.

6 And then north of the river, I matched your draft exactly.

7 Mr. De Grandy: Correct.

8 Commissioner Russell: And and so what would the number be that would come out of 

9 District 2 into District 5?

10 Mr. De Grandy: That was roughly also 10,500.

11 Commissioner Russell: 10,500. So, that gives 28,000 on the nose. If I were to add 10,500, 

12 7,000 plus 10,500, I believe my math gets me to 28,000 exactly. Is that?

13 Mr. De Grandy: I, — again, as I told you this morning, you know because of when I got it, 

14 I didn’t have the.

15 Commissioner Russell: I know it’s not exact.

16 Mr. De Grandy: The, yeah, I didn’t have the luxury of being able to go into the map and 

17 give you an exact, however, quick and dirty, your deviation will come down to less than 1%.

18 Commissioner Russell: 1% above or below.

19 Mr. De Grandy: Below.

20 Commissioner Russell: Below, so I would actually go. 

21 Mr. De Grandy: No, excuse me, excuse me, you would be, let me see, hold on, .94 below.

22 Commissioner Russell: Right so just about 1% below. So, if that were the case, if I — if I,

23 instead of cutting off at 32nd, let’s say I cut off at Rickenbacker instead, so that, even that section 

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1 of the Grove would have stayed in. It would be right around 0%. Where, what is the current in 

2 your draft? You have an overage in District 2, still, of?

3 Mr. De Grandy: 5.46.

4 Commissioner Russell: 5.46. So, the ju- the — the concerns of future growth in District 2, 

5 brought up by Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla, perhaps could be allayed by going all the way to 

6 a 0 to where I’m — District 2 is not the most populous in — in the city. So, if we were to do that, 

7 obviously it wouldn’t — it wouldn’t damage any of the vulnerable voter population in District 5.

8 What would it do to District 3 and District 4?

9 Mr. De Grandy: To District 3, hang on one second, well District 4 is at negative 2%, you’ll

10 be taking out an additional 1.8, so it would be roughly 3.8% under.

11 Commissioner Russell: District 4?

12 Mr. De Grandy: District 4.

13 Commissioner Russell: Right, and I anticipate a lot of growth, based on RTZ at 37th and 

14 47th but that’s nothing we can consider concretely. We would be a little bit under. And District 4.

15 I’m sorry District, District 3.

16 Mr. De Grandy: District 3 is currently at .92 under. You would be taking out an additional 

17 1.57 and so that would put it at roughly negative 2.5. If you were then to add that entire area that 

18 you wanted to add, that would bring that district up to a positive 5.4.

19 Commissioner Russell: Got it. And there is already a section of West Brickell in District 

20 3. Everything east of I-95. I don’t, I don’t know if the neighborhood is named officially, but there’s 

21 a section between District 2 and I-95 that already belongs in District 3, correct. In your current 

22 draft, the latest draft that you’ve proffered, how many African Americans are removed from the 

23 Grove or from District 2 in that triangle, do you have a number?

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1 Mr. De Grandy: From, from the north of US 1, the Douglas Park area, I believe. 

2 Commissioner Russell: No, in in —

3 Mr. De Grandy: Well, I’m trying to tell you all of them.

4 Commissioner Russell: In your current draft. In your current draft it already gives that away 

5 but go ahead, I don’t mean to interrupt, go ahead.

6 Mr. De Grandy: In the current draft, you have, you have, okay and, if you’re looking at 

7 south of US 1, in the current draft, you have, in the movement that goes into D4, you have 114.

8 And in the movement that goes into D3, you have 38.

9 Commissioner Russell: Got it.

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And what’s the total? African Americans in the city, in 

11 that area?

12 Mr. De Grandy: Two, 114 plus 38. How good at you at math? 114 plus 38.

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, no, how many additional people go into District 2.

14 114 go into District 4, 38 go into District 3.

15 Mr. De Grandy: Right.

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: How many remain in District 2, African Americans.

17 Mr. De Grandy: Oh, in District 2 it’s still 7.5% African Americans.

18 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, numbers. 338?

19 Mr. De Grandy: Its 5,000 and uh —

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, in that area. In the West Grove.

21 Mr. De Grandy: Oh, that I don’t have the data.

22 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: You gave the number the other day, didn’t you?

23 Commissioner King: 492.

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1 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: 492. I’m sorry yes, that’s the number. So 114.

2 Mr. De Grandy: [indistinct]

3 Commissioner Russell: Chair, chair, Mr. De Grandy I do need your comments on the mic.

4 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’m sorry to interrupt but I just wanna.

5 Commissioner King: Mr. De Grandy.

6 Commissioner Russell: No, I want to know as well.

7 Mr. De Grandy: The number of the Black population of The Grove in the city of Miami is 

8 2,647.

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, that’s total. How many of those are African 

10 American, how many are Hispanic, how many are Anglo. Of those 2,500 you said right now.

11 Mr. De Grandy: No, no, no let me make sure I understand. You asked me how many

12 African Americans in The Grove.

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: In District 2 in the West Grove.

14 Mr. De Grandy: I have the figure for the entire Grove, I don’t have the figure for the West 

15 Grove.

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: My understanding Madam Chair, was only, he gave us 

17 the breakdown of the West Grove that were 2,500 plus whites, 19,00 Hispanics and 492 —

18 Commissioner King: 492 —

19 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: African Americans —

20 Commissioner King: Is what I remember but let’s Commissioner Russell finish.

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’m sorry —

22 Commissioner Russell: No, this is fair, these are the exact questions I have as well.

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: We’re working together on the same thing and we’re

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1 doing it publicly, right. It happens every once in a while.

2 Commissioner King: I see.

3 Mr. De Grandy: I think, Commissioner, you may have been referring to the number, the 

4 demographics, of the original that we moved from D2 to D4.

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Correct.

6 Mr. De Grandy: Which was 5,071 people. And of those, I had given you ethnic 

7 breakdowns, but I do not recall giving you ethnic breakdowns just for the West Grove, it was for 

8 the total Grove, correct? Yeah.

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: So, you have no breakdown, the West Grove — if I may 

10 Madam Chair, if I may — the West Grove today as you define it, what are the boundaries of the 

11 West Grove as you define it in your analysis?

12 Mr. De Grandy: We actually did not define it, we looked at the entire Grove. Perhaps 

13 Commissioner Russell can give you a definition of where West Grove is.

14 Commissioner Russell: The definition of the West Grove really is well, the, the NCD plus, 

15 if you take McDonald, I don’t have the number. So, I could give you the boundary. But really,

16 from McDonald, from US 1 down McDonald and Grand, I’m sorry, and even below Grand to 

17 Franklin, west. So, Franklin at the southern border, US 1 at the northern border, McDonald on the 

18 eastern border and —

19 Commissioner King: Commissioner Russell.

20 Commissioner Russell. Brooker on the western border. That’s the traditional definition of 

21 the West Grove. My question is in the triangle from Bird Avenue to 27th and US 1. That triangle.

22 US 1, 27th, Bird Avenue. How many African Americans are in that triangle?

23 Mr. De Grandy: 114.

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1 Commissioner Russell: That’s what I thought you said, okay. And potentially that’s a 

2 quarter of the 492 that we all recall hearing from —

3 Mr. De Grandy: Right. In the first iteration it was 497 when we went down to Day Avenue.

4 Commissioner Russell: So, it’s, it’s — it doesn’t seem like a lot of people but when you 

5 put it into percentage of the final remaining group of African Americans that are there, and boy 

6 are they fighting to stay there. They want a cohesive voice. In my draft, how many African 

7 Americans would be removed from the Grove?

8 Mr. De Grandy: From — if you define the Grove as south of —

9 Commissioner Russell: Yes.

10 Mr. De Grandy: Of 32nd Road, where you made your cut, zero.

11 Commissioner Russell: Zero. And so I think that’s the case I’m trying to make. I, I — I 

12 really would like to try to preserve the African American community together as a whole as much 

13 as possible south of US 1 and the entire Grove came out to advocate not just for them, for the 

14 Grove as a whole. So, my hope in your further analysis, because I’m not ready to vote and I do 

15 have community meetings coming up where they are saying, is there a way. I would like to have 

16 made the case today that there is a way that not only is legally, you know, it’s safe from challenge 

17 as you feel yours is now, it won’t get challenged where yours currently will get challenged and 

18 will drag us out. But not only that. I believe it achieves even better numbers. Because zero African 

19 Americans would be removed from the Grove. You would actually bring District 2 down from a 

20 5% above deviation to a flat zero, potentially. And a neighborhood conservation district which is 

21 currently NCD3, is currently all within one representative commissioner, would not turn into three

22 commissioners within one. And the definition of NCD, it tends to conserve neighborhoods with a 

23 sense of uniqueness of Coconut Grove that is manifest to its historic legacy, architectural variety, 

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1 cultural diversity, natural aesthetic, walkable character, access to the water, with a concentration 

2 on the canopy and affordable housing. That’s from the City of Miami website, NCD3 currently 

3 has one commissioner representing it with one overlay for the code, versus three. And it’s not 

4 about having more representation championing you, it’s actually about perhaps having one voice 

5 that fights for one version of that code where three commissioners may or may not ever agree. But 

6 we we get along and we do it. So, I’m not saying neighborhoods can’t or shouldn’t be broken up.

7 If we can be cohesive, I feel we should make that effort. If we can normalize more to equilibrium, 

8 I think we should do that. And if we can keep more of an African American community together, 

9 I think we should do that as well. So, I — I would just hope you’re able to take that into 

10 consideration as you move forward into the community meetings and the final, final draft that we 

11 vote on, on March 11. Thank you very much, that’s all my comments.

12 Commissioner King: Thank you. Commissioner Reyes.

13 Commissioner Manolo Reyes: Okay, I heard what every commissioner had to say, I’m 

14 gonna ask you a question and I want you to answer, which is my main concern. My main concern 

15 and I hadn’t made this perfectly clear, since the time that the districts were created, and I remember

16 very well, because I was part of a group that was headed by Athalie Range, Bill Perry Senior, and 

17 Anne Marie Aker from Coconut Grove, I mean from Overtown, that we knew that it was it was

18 necessary and imminent that districts were created. Even J.L. Plummer’s seat was in danger, yeah 

19 for the next election, and that’s why they were created. It was created, and I said in my prayer this 

20 morning, that everyone would be represented, and that is my commitment. My commitment is that 

21 everyone be represented. According to your — all the movement that you have done of population 

22 and the way that will the, the, Afro American district and the so-called Anglo district will stand

23 time. I mean the next ten years, for the next ten years, given the movement of population that we 

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1 are going to experience, we — there stand the test of time and we will be able, or the probability 

2 of electing an Afro American and an Anglo are that you will — are confident that it is very probable 

3 that we, because nothing is sure but death and taxes, but it is very probable that we will — we will 

4 continue to have a mixed commission, which is my — my main concern.

5 Mr. De Grandy: To answer your question commissioner, we have done our level best to 

6 ensure that District 5 performs for the African American community and that they will continue 

7 throughout the decade to have the ability to elect the candidate of their choice. As to District 2, as 

8 I said in my report, District 2 is a competitive district, it actually has a greater percentage of

9 Hispanics than of single-race white individuals, as was self-identified by, in the census. It is my 

10 belief that that 48+% will continue to grow. So, it’s gonna be very competitive —

11 Commissioner Reyes: It’s competitive but is there still the probability is high?

12 Mr. De Grandy: Yes.

13 Commissioner Reyes: Okay that’s, that’s, I mean as I said beforehand, nothing is. Nothing 

14 is sure, you see. And that is my main concern. And I wanna send this message to everybody that 

15 is saying, well you are taken this piece of Coconut Grove and it’s not Coconut Grove anymore. It 

16 is Coconut Grove. You see, I lived, I’ve been living in Flagami since the end of ’69. And when I 

17 moved to Flagami, Flagami was, I mean, just a whole neighborhood. With their own kind 

18 characteristics, own neighbors and all of that. When it was divided in two different districts, still 

19 is Flagami. Still Flagami, my neighbors is still my neighbors that live in Flagami and 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla, as well as myself, we all care for Flagami. And we have projects 

21 and we work projects together that is gonna benefit Flagami. Same thing with Shenandoah. My 

22 colleague, Commissioner Carollo, he represents part of Shenandoah, so do I. You see, when we 

23 were, and I mean deciding to redo the park and the pool which is now under construction and there 

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1 is major development there. Every single community meeting, we have Carollo’s constituents as 

2 well as my constituents come to the community meetings and deciding what we’re gonna do in 

3 that pool in that park. And they were active participant of what we were gonna do and how we 

4 gonna do it and their opinion and their input was taken into consideration, you see. By being, I 

5 mean that sliver that are — that are from Coconut Grove, that are, I mean, it is going to assign to

6 me, it’s not because I’m asking for it, and I don’t want to get a part of Coconut Grove or anything,

7 you see. But I would represent it just as I represent my district, and that sliver is not gonna be 

8 geographically transported to the end of Flagami as some people are saying, we are not in Coconut 

9 Grove, you are in Coconut Grove. Nobody’s moving from Coconut Grove, I heard a gentleman, 

10 he said, my daughter goes to Coconut Grove School. Nothing’s gonna change. You’re gonna still 

11 be going there. The only thing that when you have constituent services that you want, do you have 

12 any problem, you can come to your commissioner, and that’s it. You see, maybe you could get 

13 even faster service, that’s what you are doing now. I don’t know nothing, no pun intended Mr.

14 Russell, but what I’m saying is this, geographically you’re gonna be in the same place. Every one

15 of us is very concerned about serving and about doing the best for the district that we represent.

16 So, it’s not a transplantation of geographic transportation of where your house is, it’s gonna be 

17 now in a different area. You’re still gonna be in Coconut Grove. There still — we — gonna be 

18 Goombay, which I proposed, and I think it’s gonna be, and you’re gonna be part of it. We’re still 

19 gonna have the, the, the — just happened — we have the art festival, you see and it’s gonna be in 

20 Coconut Grove. You gonna still be at a walking probably to Flanigan’s, if you live next to it, it’s 

21 still Coconut Grove. You see, what I’m trying to say it is that just ask all the communities who are

22 divided, because we all agree that we have to preserve a seat that will represent every single 

23 community of the city of Miami, so every single neighborhood was divided and we all accepted 

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1 it, we all accepted it. And if you want — I mean you have to further divide — further divide 

2 Flagami, which is my neighborhood, in order for us — I mean and, give it to somebody else — in 

3 order for us to have the composition of the district — I mean of the government of the City of 

4 Miami, what every single community is represented, I will accept it. So, this is the only way,

5 according to you, that we can — with all the data and statistics that you have done — that we can 

6 preserve those seats now?

7 Mr. De Grandy: No, sir, as I said there are thousands of ways to do a plan but this plan is 

8 based on your criteria.

9 Commissioner Reyes: And the criteria is to preserve those seats?

10 Mr. De Grandy: To preserve the core of existing districts and the configuration of 

11 population —

12 Commissioner Reyes: Okay.

13 Mr. De Grandy: Wherever possible.

14 Commissioner Reyes: Okay, and I heard people, no gerrymandering! Yes, we are 

15 gerrymandering to preserve those seats. And that’s it. And if you want to take us to court for it, —

16 Mr. De Grandy: That that actually wouldn’t be called gerrymandering —

17 Commissioner Reyes: But that’s what —

18 Mr. De Grandy: That’s a tradition —

19 Commissioner Reyes: Just what — just what some of the —

20 Mr. De Grandy: Yeah.

21 Commissioner Reyes: Some —

22 Mr. De Grandy: But that is a traditional redistricting principle.

23 Commissioner Reyes: Okay.

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1 Mr. De Grandy: That is accepted.

2 Commissioner Reyes: Okay.

3 Mr. De Grandy: When drawing —

4 Commissioner Reyes: Based — based on that principle, I’m ready to vote. 

5 Commissioner King: Thank you.

6 Commissioner Reyes: I’m ready.

7 Commissioner King: Well, I’ve heard the comments from my colleagues, and I echo 

8 Commissioner Russell’s sentiment. I’m not ready to vote on this. And I would like for you, Mr.

9 De Grandy, to take into consideration what Commissioner Russell has presented. I would also like 

10 to see a map of the existing districts and then an overlay of what you are doing and then maybe an 

11 overlay of what Commissioner Russell has proposed. We still have time, we have until March 11th

12 is what we all agreed upon to take a look, take another look. Commissioner Russell is having a 

13 community meeting next week, you said. I had mine this week but perhaps once you give us that 

14 additional information I may have some more questions or some more comments. I want to make 

15 sure that our community has significant input in what is happening with the redistricting. So, I’m 

16 not ready to make a vote today, I will be ready on March 11th, because I think we have gotten very 

17 far in this process, would you agree?

18 Commissioner Russell: I appreciate it.

19 Commissioner King: We have gotten pretty far in this process. But I think we need to —

20 at least I would like to look at it one more time, look at what’s happening with my district and see 

21 if we can be a little more accommodating to Commissioner Russell’s district?

22 Mr. De Grandy: If I may, Madam Chair.

23 Commissioner King: And I’m not sure, because Commissioner Russell just presented this 

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1 with his — his calculations, like would that upset the balance in my district? Would it take me 

2 from 52 to less or more?

3 Mr. De Grandy: Wouldn’t impact your district.

4 Commissioner King: It wouldn’t impact my district.

5 Mr. De Grandy: Commissioner Russell’s —

6 Commissioner King: Okay.

7 Mr. De Grandy: Proposal wouldn’t impact this.

8 Commissioner King: He has — so what you propose for my district is what Commissioner 

9 Russell is proposing.

10 Mr. De Grandy: That’s right.

11 Commissioner King: But my colleagues they may have some comments about that, but 

12 today, I’m not ready to move forward with the vote and I’d like to give Commissioner Russell the 

13 opportunity to meet with his constituency and to discuss this and to see where we are. And if 

14 there’s no further comment, I see Commissioner —

15 Commissioner Reyes: Hold on a second, I and — I wanna inform you that I’m having a 

16 community meeting also.

17 Commissioner King: Okay.

18 Commissioner Reyes: And we’re having a community meeting, I — I believe that if we 

19 vote and it doesn’t mean that it will be cast in stone, you see. 

20 Commissioner Carollo: Correct.

21 Commissioner Reyes: Then it’s not, wouldn’t be cast in stone, there is a little tweak here,

22 a tweak there.

23 Commissioner King: Uh-uh

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1 Commissioner Reyes: We would be able to accept it, but we are basically what we’re doing 

2 in accepting the plan if it’s gonna be tweaked, you see and one way or the other, it we’re open to 

3 it. But —

4 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And and Madam Chair, there’s an amendatory process 

5 that we can do when on on for our next meeting that we can change here and there tweak like 

6 Commissioner Reyes said, but I’m ready to move forward, I think the plan is a good plan. I hate 

7 to disagree with my chair.

8 Commissioner King: That’s okay.

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I think that we should not we should not be changing to 

10 accommodate one commissioner or group of activist —

11 Commissioner King: We’re not we’re not —

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Well no, no, no —

13 Commissioner King: Changing, let me —

14 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Wow, wow, is it —

15 Commissioner King: We’re not changing to com- to to accommodate one commissioner, 

16 I’m not ready either.

17 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And I I know that’s why we have set the plan and we 

18 can tweak and come back and accept amendments moving forward but we need to have a base

19 plan to move forward. I think we’d that we’re running to a dangerous area if we begin to look at 

20 streets and avenues, and say well one avenue here, one street there. It creates problems. It’s there’s 

21 it’s it’s very clear here what’s happened, there’s a group of activists from Coconut Grove that they 

22 wanna be part of Miami for some reason. Yes, you can film me. That don’t wanna be part of Miami

23 for some reason. And they say that Coconut Grove is a unique neighborhood, to me that’s 

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1 disrespectful of other unique neighborhoods like Flagami, Allapattah, Little Havana, Overtown, 

2 Liberty City, it’s disrespectful. Right? We have a right and other neighborhoods must have a right 

3 to say they’re unique also, but no one came here, as Commissioner Carollo went through a list of 

4 who spoke today, was only from Commissioner Russell’s district, from Coconut Grove actually,

5 not even from your district by the way. It was from Coconut Grove, very active but part of your 

6 district, you have all of downtown Miami, you have Edgewater, Morningside and everything else

7 going north. So, to me, if we continue to go back and forth about, hey let’s change this avenue, 

8 include this neighborhood, there is no argument here, and correct me if I’m wrong Mr. De Grandy, 

9 that we have to go, we have to cross US 1. US 1 is not a sacred boundary that somebody created, 

10 like I-95 isn’t either, by the way, like other’s aren’t either, right? We have — we have — we 

11 already at this juncture, you’re plan to date, you’re overpopulating District 2 to accommodate Mr.

12 Russell, to accommodate the residents that have come before us. You have to take into account 

13 that there’s a over 50% change from the first plan to the revised plan, and keeping the growth 

14 together as much as possible. But we’ve all had to accept over decades the division of traditional 

15 neighborhoods in the city of Miami. We’ve accepted it — no you don’t need to scream here —

16 we’ve accepted it, right? All of a sudden — we can accept the division of Flagami and Allapattah

17 and Little Havana and Overtown and other parts, you accept the division of Overtown, right?

18 Commissioner King: I did not accept that.

19 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, but I mean.

20 Commissioner King: I had to accept it.

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: You had to accept that.

22 Commissioner King: I did not accept it. 

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Because in politics and in governing we compromise, 

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1 and we give and we take. It can’t be taking and taking all the time.

2 Commissioner King: I understand and what I’m what I’m saying is —

3 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: What I wanna do —

4 Commissioner King: But he’s presenting this, he has presented it or maybe I’m 

5 misunderstanding because a vote today would make this your plan final and that’s not —

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, no —

7 Commissioner Reyes: No, no —

8 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No no we can tweak it. 

9 Commissioner Reyes: No no we can tweak it — excuse me excuse me, what I’m saying is,

10 let me just say. If, I mean I don’t have any, any argument against if, that is I mean — a formula 

11 that I could take the sliver of Coconut Grove out of my district and either, I mean I will lose that 

12 population or it is replaced with someplace else, which I don’t wouldn’t have want to. So, I don’t 

13 have anything, if that is possible, I mean let’s, I welcome it, it doesn’t mean that this is cast in 

14 stone right.

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I think I mean I’m sorry, I think that we pass this today.

16 Commissioner Reyes: Yes.

17 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And we have time to come back and have the 

18 conversations and say, hey, let’s let’s do a little tweak here little tweak there that that works for 

19 me, I have no problem with that. 

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And let’s take it —

21 Commissioner King: And me —

22 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And maybe Mr. De Grandy can help us Mr. De Grandy 

23 can help us.

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1 Commissioner King: Okay.

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And and, is that possible?

3 Mr. De Grandy: If I if I can what I’d like to say is this, we’re supposed to, based on your 

4 direction, to present a final plan on March 11th.

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right.

6 Commissioner Reyes: Yes.

7 Mr. De Grandy: I had thought that today’s meeting was for you all to tell me that’s fine, 

8 this is the final plan or give me an amendment, what I don’t want to do is, I don’t wanna make any 

9 changes as a result to of any of your community meetings because that is not the consensus of this 

10 commission. If this commission tells me I want you to change this, I can do it and I can tell you 

11 this is going to be the effect, do you want me to proceed. But if you don’t give me direction today 

12 as to any amendments, I’m presenting this plan on March 11th as the final plan. Cause I have no 

13 direction to do otherwise.

14 Commissioner Carollo: Madam Chair.

15 Commissioner King: Vice Chair.

16 Commissioner Carollo: This is really the process that we set up to follow, it should be 

17 followed. This meeting today was set up so that we could see what he’s presented to us, if we 

18 wanted to make as a body, some additional tweaks in it, make it. But to give him at least either the 

19 go-ahead and the original plan or one with some tweaks, so that could be the one that we have 

20 agreed upon to bring to our different districts for the people to see as the potential final map. Then 

21 March 11 is when we vote upon it or make any last tweaks. But March 11, we have a vote. What 

22 I’m not going to be in favor of is to play the game of the tactics of delay delay delay. If we need 

23 to meet, another meeting before March 11, I’ll be happy to. I’m meeting in my district meeting 

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1 March the 2nd. I don’t know when some of the others are having theirs.

2 Commissioner Russell: Monday.

3 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: To get any feedback.

4 Commissioner Carollo: March 3rd, 2nd also.

5 Male Speaker: Third. 

6 Commissioner Carollo: Ma- madam Chair?

7 Commissioner King: I had mine on —

8 Commissioner Carollo: You had yours already, and Commissioner Russell, you have —

9 Commissioner King: Because I thought we were supposed to it before we came to this 

10 meeting. 

11 Commissioner Russell: Monday the 20, Monday the 28th for me. 

12 Commissioner Carollo: 28th —

13 Mr. De Grandy: If I may Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla —

14 Commissioner Carollo: You can have another if you like. 

15 Mr. De Grandy: I wasn’t aware of your meeting, he’s got one on March 3rd and I can’t be 

16 in two places at once.

17 Commissioner Carollo: We can change the time.

18 Commissioner King: Victoria?

19 Mr. De Grandy: You can change the time?

20 Commissioner King: Let me just get a clarification —

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Or you can advertise and have a joint meeting. 

22 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, we can do that too, yeah.

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yeah.

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1 Commissioner King: Yeah, because I I guess I’m thinking the same thing but we’re saying 

2 it differently because I thought the plan that you proposed and gave it to us on Tuesday close of 

3 business Tuesday that it’s this plan and that is the plan that we are taking to our communities so is 

4 that what I’m voting on today? That we take this plan to the community cause that’s what we 

5 did —

6 Commissioner Carollo: Exactly —

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yes, and the community will give us input into what 

8 they like about it. 

9 Commissioner King: But it’s not a final plan. 

10 Commissioner Carollo: No.

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No.

12 Commissioner Carollo: March 11 —

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: March 11, final plan. So, we vote on this, we pass it, we 

14 take it to our community then then they’ll give us input and we can amend it. And do an 

15 amendatory process —

16 Commissioner King: Okay, that that is what I did already —

17 Commissioner Carollo: What it is Chair, is a resolution approving the recommendation —

18 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right.

19 Commissioner Carollo: Our experts to bring this plan or any tweaks that we might finally 

20 wanna make here, to the community for additional input before we vote for the final plan on March 

21 11th.

22 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Correct.

23 Commissioner King: Commissioner Russell?

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1 Commissioner Russell: Yes, thank you, I just have a couple questions for Mr. De Grandy 

2 before we move, sounds like we’re going toward a vote. Is there a part of the draft that I’ve 

3 proposed that violates the direction that has been given to you by this body? 

4 Mr. De Grandy: Is there that violates the —

5 Commissioner Russell: So, you’ve been acting under very specific criteria given to you by 

6 this body.

7 Mr. De Grandy: Sure.

8 Commissioner Russell: Does this offend that criteria?

9 Mr. De Grandy: It does not. 

10 Commissioner Russell: Does this violate any legal standards that we have to go by?

11 Mr. De Grandy: It gets you to very close to 10% but not over. It takes you just under 

12 10% —

13 Commissioner Russell: Understood. And the other question had to do with logistics within 

14 — when you redraw lines, the logistics of precincts and when they vote and where they have to go 

15 and the convenience, I would assume there are some aspirations to make it as lit- as least confusing 

16 as possible for voters and have them go the least distance to vote. And with US 1 as the boundary,

17 you’ve got a very clean area of residents who all know where their precincts are, they’re all within 

18 walking distance. If we take two parts of the Grove below — that are below US 1 and add them to 

19 separate districts, is there a chance where residents would have to be crossing US 1 to find their 

20 precinct?

21 Commissioner Carollo: No.

22 Mr. De Grandy: Well —

23 Commissioner Russell: Or would you have to put a new precinct —

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1 Mr. De Grandy: The supervisor of elections is actually going to go through a re-precincting 

2 process.

3 Commissioner Russell: Yes.

4 Mr. De Grandy: Once she gets the map from congress, state, house, county, and us, they 

5 redesign the precincts, so a gentleman or lady that may have been going to the same precinct for 

6 10 years may not be going, regardless of whether our lines change or not.

7 Commissioner Carollo: That’s right. 

8 Mr. De Grandy: That’s really somewhat out of our control.

9 Commissioner Russell: Thank you, that’s all I needed to know. So the last thing I’ll just 

10 say is in your answers just now, we have a legal criteria to meet and then there’s a policy decision 

11 to make and that’s the way you taught me over these last few weeks —

12 Mr. De Grandy: Yes Sir.

13 Commissioner Russell: This is driven. And both plans satisfied the legal and satisfied the 

14 policy direction you’ve been given. From here forwards it’s up to us as a body on what policy we 

15 want to take in terms of where those lines are drawn. Now, every other district is gaining, is 

16 growing. The District 2 is the one that’s getting diminished. And that’s why, it’s getting, and it has 

17 to legally. It’s not necessarily a negative, but that’s why I’m trying to be at the table on where it 

18 gets diminished and Javi Gonzalez who had had ran against me in the race, I remember it was a 

19 question at a debate once. Redistricting is coming, which part of your district would you give up 

20 and at the time it was a surprise question because I mean it’s like asking you which is your favorite 

21 child, you know. You take it a bit personal because you served that district, but I want to take the 

22 personalities out of it. It isn’t about us and who serves what area, it’s not about me or my district, 

23 it’s simply about seeing a consistent representation and this is the draft I’d like to propose to all of 

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1 you and hope it gets consideration, thank you.

2 Commissioner Reyes: Madam Chair, let me ask, the, where you were gonna go, your 

3 precinct is not based only on what, I mean what were you gonna vote, the precinct that you gonna, 

4 is not based on what district you are, it’s based on more.

5 Mr. De Grandy: It’s somewhat, because

6 Commissioner Reyes: Somewhat but it is within within the area.

7 Mr. De Grandy: Yeah, yeah the supervisor elections —

8 Commissioner Reyes: Where you live.

9 Mr. De Grandy: Yeah, the supervisor elections is actually gonna to re-precinct the county.

10 Commissioner Reyes: That’s right. 

11 Mr. De Grandy: The county so, those precincts can change.

12 Commissioner Reyes: And it’s more based of what word your place of residence and all of 

13 that. Cause sometimes you have a precinct that have 2 and 3 different, I mean you have a locale, a

14 place that 2 or 3 different precincts vote at the same place.

15 Mr. De Grandy: Correct.

16 Commissioner King: Mr. De Grandy, I’d like to be clear, I would like to see a map of the 

17 existing districts and an overlay of what you have proposed. How soon can you get that to this 

18 body?

19 Mr. De Grandy: [indistinct].

20 Commissioner King: I think he should, we should.

21 Mr. De Grandy: The answer is, I mean we can give you that without a problem, depends 

22 on how you want it. If you want it, for us to send it to you electronically, we actually have in the 

23 database a map that shows all the movements. So, we could send you that. If you want it a big map 

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1 like that, it’s gonna take a few days to get produced.

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I it in both.

3 Commissioner King: I’m visual and your map is very confusing to me because I see what 

4 you are doing but I can’t see in comparison to what we have, so I’d like to see what we have and 

5 then on top of that I’d like an overlay so that I can —

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Madam Chair, I would love to see this map, you’re a lot 

7 younger than I am.

8 Commissioner King: I am not asking you.

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Much younger. But I remember we had a little map like 

10 this one right and then you had a little vinyl thing on top of it that has a new map. Right? And then 

11 you see little lines, how it changes, that’s what I like.

12 Commissioner King: That’s what I wanna see as well.

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Everybody likes this full thing, but you know what, I’m 

14 too old for that.

15 Commissioner King: That’s what I want to see as well.

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And so are you by the way Mr. de Grandy. Okay so 

17 let’s old school here and you just give us something simple so we can understand it. Okay, that’s 

18 what you are changing and give us in the next couple of days and I think everybody will be happy.

19 Commissioner King: And I like.

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Madam Chair here is very young, but you’re a little bit 

21 old school I think anyway, right. So, we’ll do it that way.

22 Commissioner Russell: Miguel is about to ask for a raise.

23 Commissioner King: I would like, I would like to see that as quickly as we can get it and I 

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1 also want to confirm with the City Attorney that any action we take today, is not a final action 

2 because I am clear that I may have a tweak or two for you from my district.

3 Victoria Méndez: That depends on how you pass the motion, so.

4 Commissioner King: The motion as I understand is just to accept what he is providing to 

5 us today so we can take it to our community, so they can have an input in.

6 Commissioner Carollo: I would suggest Chairwoman, and let’s see what he might, Miguel, 

7 you both need to hear this. The Chairwoman is saying that she might need a tweak or two, small,

8 on her district. I wanna make sure that we have our final vote March 11. So, if you’re gonna have 

9 that final tweak, either we should have another meeting before March 11th or we will provide to 

10 you, all final tweaks by a certain date that we chose here. So, you have them beforehand, and you 

11 come with this plan and the one with the final tweaks on that day.

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Madam Chair, I have no final tweaks from my 

13 perspective. I don’t know if the other commissioners know.

14 Commissioner Russell: I have two. Let me —

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s a different debate, but we’re talking about the 

16 Chairwoman, can you have, you can present your final tweaks to him right in a private meeting —

17 you cannot?

18 Mr. De Grandy: Well, here’s the why. If say for example I have two or three commissioners 

19 who give me tweaks. So, I’m

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s not what I said.

21 Mr. De Grandy: No, no, no I understand what you’re saying. I’m responding to 

22 Commissioner Carollo.

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Okay.

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1 Mr. De Grandy: I now have to do four separate maps. Each one is in a vacuum —

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Off course.

3 Mr. De Grandy: So, if ultimately there’s a well like Commissioner Díaz de Portilla is and 

4 Carollo’s change but not Reyes. Then —

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That’s not what I’m saying.

6 Mr. De Grandy: It can’t be put together.

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No, no. The Madam Chair’s gonna gave you some 

8 changes she wants. You present that to us and you adjust other parts according to that. Right? And 

9 most of the adjustments at the end of the day is gonna come out of Commissioner District 2 right.

10 Mr. De Grandy: Right.

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: At the end of the day, Commissioner Russell, District 2

12 is the over-populated district by 27, 28,000. That’s where the votes have to come from. There’s no 

13 way around that, you can’t go around that. Everybody here is underpopulated, they go no, you can 

14 do whatever you want, but you can’t no, the map doesn’t work, you have to take it from yours. If 

15 you don’t like it —

16 Male Speaker: We can multiply.

17 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: You know the fact of the matter is, you cannot have one 

18 commissioner representing more people that other commissioners.

19 Commissioner Carollo: Well, I just wanna get this done so we could —

20 Commissioner King: So we can —

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: So, so I moved —

22 Commissioner Carollo: I could at least bring to a part of Coconut Grove a peacock 

23 sanctuary like we used to have and nobody messes with the peacocks, just like in India they don’t 

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1 mess with the cows.

2 Commissioner Russell: Joe in the section you are getting, nobody wants peacocks.

3 Commissioner King: So, do I have a motion.

4 Mr. De Grandy: I have a suggestion —

5 Commissioner Carollo: Not a single person here from that section.

6 Mr. De Grandy: Here’s my suggestion before you do a motion, you can accept it or not.

7 Commissioner Carollo: Save the peacocks.

8 Mr. De Grandy: You have your public hearings, you get whatever input, you decide 

9 whether you want changes or not. We have a meeting on March 11th. This is the base plan. At that 

10 time, you tell me, based on, you know ,my community input, I want this changed. If the 

11 commission votes for that change, we take a recess. We get on our computer.

12 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: You change it —

13 Mr. De Grandy: 15 minutes later we come back and —

14 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla : And we pass it the same day and we’re good to go —

15 Mr. De Grandy: We tell you this is the impact of the change —

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That be my, I think I think I think our city attorney made 

17 the motion, like worded the motion. No, you can’t make it but you worded it.

18 Ms. Méndez: The Chair worded it nicely. The Chair worded it. Oh, you want me to say it 

19 again?

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yes, right and I’ll make it.

21 Commissioner Carollo: No, no I gave that resolution for what we need to move forward 

22 today. Well the Chair, said that she might have a tweak or two.

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Right.

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1 Commissioner Carollo: And I think that, that’s why I brought this up to De Grandy because

2 he’s the one who’s gotta do the work. He’s suggesting that we could do it all in one day.

3 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yes.

4 Commissioner Carollo: So, the only thing that I’m gonna ask is, that we have the meeting 

5 on the 11th, early like 10, 10:30 so that if we gotta work until late that day, we do it.

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: That works. 

7 Commissioner Carollo: Well —

8 Commissioner King: Yes, yes.

9 Ms. Méndez: Remember the, I just want to remind everybody about the 11th date, the 11th

10 date is if you want to vote on these districts, 

11 Commissioner Carollo: Yes.

12 Ms. Méndez: Newly shaped districts.

13 Commissioner King: Yes.

14 Commissioner Carollo: That’s what we voted upon already Madam City Attorney.

15 Commissioner King: Yes, that’s that’s what —

16 Ms. Méndez: But there is no election in 2020 —

17 Commissioner Carollo: We voted upon that already.

18 Ms. Méndez: Okay, I just wanted to remind you. I wanted to remind you.

19 Commissioner King: Thank you. 

20 Commissioner Carollo: We understand.

21 Commissioner Carollo: We understand. 

22 Commissioner King: Yes.

23 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I think we’re over complicating it. 

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1 Commissioner King: Yes.

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I think we move this out as a base plan.

3 Commissioner King: Yes, and to what Victoria is trying to say to us, if on the 11th we 

4 don’t have a consensus and I don’t think that will be the case —

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: We come back.

6 Commissioner King: We will make other.

7 Commissioner Carollo: But this is why I’ve been very clear, that as far as I’m concerned,

8 March 11 is a red line cause I know the game that some wanna play and they’re keep this going 

9 and going and going —

10 Commissioner King: But we’re not going to do that. 

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: And and Mr. De Grandy, Mr. De Grandy, if I may

12 Madam Chair, Mr. De Grandy’s made an argument to me today in my office that, beyond that, it 

13 will cost us money. You made the argument Madam Chair; you don’t care and I agree.

14 Commissioner King: I do not.

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: As long as we get it right and I agree, as long as we get 

16 it right, but I think the goal is, and I agree with Commissioner Carollo that the goal is March 11th

17 because you know what, you right, the games are being played. The actors are coming out. 

18 Commissioner King: You all know, wait, wait. No, stop, that’s inflammatory —

19 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No it’s not inflammatory, it’s correct —

20 Commissioner King: Language, yes, it is because they’re not actors.

21 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Activists.

22 Commissioner King: Okay, they are, but they are advocating on behalf of their community 

23 and that is their right and this, we live in a democracy.

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1 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I know, and I agree but we need to put, we have to have 

2 finality.

3 Commissioner Carollo: You know I agree with that.

4 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I agree with that.

5 Commissioner Carollo: And if it’s kept to that —

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Date —

7 Commissioner Carollo: I’m all in favor of spending all the time that we need.

8 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I agree.

9 Commissioner Carollo: Between now and March 11th to hear as many times.

10 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Even a special meeting we have. 

11 Commissioner Carollo: For one. My problem is Chair, and I wasn’t gonna go there is the 

12 following. And this is starting to bother me, cause I’m seeing the false flag being thrown out, so I 

13 won’t call it something else that might be more politically incorrect. It started the last time, with 

14 trying to incite the West Grove to come here. We took care of that from this dais the last meeting, 

15 Mr. De Grandy went ahead and did what we asked him. We said, and we all agreed, to cut if off 

16 at Bird Avenue, and if you needed to, go across 27th into the North Grove. He did just that, he 

17 only included on District 4 the other side, a small triangle where McDonald is and Bird Avenue 

18 that you go down from Flanigan’s, down to the US 1. And I’m hearing on this dais today now that,

19 well, how many Blacks did we take out of there, we took 114, 117. We’re diluting. I mean this is

20 absurd, I mean you throw arguments at me that are sound and I will listen and I’ll support you, but 

21 when you’re throwing arguments that will go down in quicksand, quicker than you can say quick,

22 and are absurd, and they’re being used as a false flag to try to instigate another type of discord.

23 This is where I draw the line, I say enough, with this BS, that people want to keep the Grove 

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1 together? They have a right to do that, I understand that. I understand that. But don’t throw another 

2 argument into it that’s got nothing to do with it whatsoever. And that’s the problem that I’ve been 

3 having. And look, I know most of the people that are here today, they truly, you know, mean what 

4 they are saying. You know and I understand that, but I’ve also explained all the other communities 

5 in the city, and we tried to do that for several decades since we had districts. But it has come to the 

6 point now, the third time around that, or is this the fourth?

7 Mr. De Grandy: This is the fourth public hearing —

8 Commissioner Carollo: The fourth time around —

9 Mr. De Grandy: This is the fourth public hearing —

10 Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, I don’t mean a public hearing. Since we’ve done 

11 redistricting, from the original one. The original one was in ’97.

12 Mr. De Grandy: Oh okay, yeah this is the third.

13 Commissioner Carollo: And the election that we had. So, it’s gotten to the point that we 

14 can’t keep all of the Grove as one any longer. We started in past redistricting in cutting from the 

15 north. You know we have nowhere to go because if we go the way that Commissioner Russell 

16 wants, we throw District 3 into Brickell. That’s truly going to change the whole component of one 

17 district and it’s gonna create a domino effect that is gonna change the composition of the other 

18 districts and this is why we haven’t gone that way. You understood that and you stated it here. It’s 

19 up to us to tell you which way we wanna go, it’s up to you to tell us what’s legal and what’s not.

20 Mr. De Grandy: Yes sir.

21 Commissioner Carollo: And then draw it. Do we have a thousand, two thousand ways of 

22 maybe doing it? Yeah. We could, you know, be here for the next ten years and not accomplish a 

23 single vote, looking at different plans. But this is a sound vote — and that’s what I wanted to hear

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1 — that will pass the legal muster that — we’re gonna be sued. Hey listen, I’ve seen some of these

2 ambulance chasers come here, more than for this here, they’re gonna keep coming back. If it’s not 

3 for this, will be for something else because these are the losers than can’t make a living as a real 

4 attorney and they gotta be out there seeing what they could grab as an ambulance chaser and that’s, 

5 you know that’s, you know, part of life, that you can’t change. So I’m not concerned with, you 

6 know, the threats of our lawsuits. It’s how you end up at the end with the lawsuit and that’s why I 

7 asked you that question, cause Miguel you truly are the expert in this. So.

8 Commissioner King: Okay I think we’re ready. So, could you Victoria read the resolution.

9 Ms. Méndez: A resolution of the Miami City Commission approving the draft of the 

10 redistricting plan presented at the February 25th Special Commission Meeting, to be shared and 

11 discussed with the community stakeholders, and bring back the redistricting plan and discuss it at 

12 the March 11 Special Commission Meeting and present any changes at that time.

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Thank you. 

14 Commissioner King: Do I have a motion.

15 Commissioner Carollo: For a final vote.

16 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: For a final vote.

17 Ms. Méndez: For a final vote.

18 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I’ll move that. 

19 Commissioner King: Do I have a second.

20 Commissioner Reyes: I’ll second.

21 Commissioner King: All in favor.

22 Multiple Speakers: Aye.

23 Commissioner Russell: No.

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1 Commissioner King: Okay.

2 Commissioner Carollo: You don’t want to save the peacocks either, right?

3 Mr. De Grandy: Okay so to be clear Madam Chair, we will not be making any changes 

4 from now until the 11th and the 11th you direct us to make whatever changes.

5 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: After our meeting and public meetings and our 

6 conversations —

7 Commissioner King: But we’re free to meet with you after our meetings to say, these are 

8 some tweaks that we want, etcetera, etcetera.

9 Mr. De Grandy: Sure, but I’m not going to present any changes on March 11th. You all are 

10 gonna tell me on March 11th, here’s what I want to change.

11 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Correct, and you’ll do an aside —

12 Commissioner King: Then you can do it — And you can do it on March 11th.

13 Mr. De Grandy: Yes, we’re just going to have to take breaks as we go through it in the 

14 computer but it’s probably the most efficient way to do it.

15 Commissioner Carollo: What time did we agree to have met on March 11th. Was there a 

16 time that we.

17 Commissioner King: City Clerk.

18 Todd Hannon: Yes sir, at 10am on March 11th.

19 Commissioner Carollo: Okay we’re good then, it’s fine. 

20 Ms. Méndez: Okay and then from, I just wanted to confirm based on a request that I think 

21 I heard but I would love to see if possible. Could you do those overlays, like what is now and what 

22 your plan is, you know.

23 Mr. De Grandy: I don’t know that we can do it with a transparency. But what I can do —

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1 Commissioner King: Hold on —

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Hold on a second. All right why not. 

3 Mr. De Grandy: Because I’m not as technologically proficient — Here’s what I can do, we 

4 can have a plan that has a configuration of the districts, and we change —

5 Commissioner King: Take it off and —

6 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: A vinyl thing in the front that change.

7 Commissioner King: Yes.

8 Mr. De Grandy: Steve, that’s your job —

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: You can do that, right. 

10 Mr. Cody: And here I thought I had the easy part of this relationship. Yeah, I can do that.

11 You want just one plan to look at or if you want five copies of that.

12 Commissioner King: Five.

13 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Five.

14 Mr. Cody: It’s gonna take me, that’s not something I can do overnight —

15 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: You have like two weeks. 

16 Commissioner King: Staples will do it for you.

17 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Yes. Yeah you can do, you’re with Holland and Knight 

18 right?

19 Mr. Cody: No.

20 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: No? Which company you with.

21 Mr. De Grandy: I’m with Holland and Knight — sorry he’s independent.

22 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: You’re independent I thought okay so Holland and 

23 Knight doesn’t have interns that can do all that —

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1 Ms. Méndez: Do you literally need the vinyl; they can do it right here. They can put it on.

2 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I want the vinyl; I want the vinyl.

3 Commissioner King: Then it’s easy to and then we can draw.

4 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: For me it is right, yeah, I want the vinyl. I move that we 

5 get the vinyl.

6 Mr. Cody: We’ll figure it out the vinyl.

7 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: Do I have a second to that.

8 Mr. Cody: We’ll figure out the vinyl.

9 Commissioner Díaz de la Portilla: I appreciate that.

10 Commissioner King: Thank you everyone, meeting adjourned.

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