Exhibit B

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Joe: What's up, everyone? I'm Joe Pompliano, and this is The Joe Pomp Show. 

Today's episode is with Avi Dabir, Vice President of Business Development at FTX. 

Avi has spent the last few years working on sports partnerships with organizations all

around the world. FTX has spent more than $500 million on partnerships with the 

Miami Heat, Major League Baseball, and Mercedes Formula One team, as well as 

equity-based partnerships with athletes like Tom Brady, Stephen Curry, Naomi 

Osaka, and Shohei Otani.

Avi joined us in the studio this week, so my brothers and I had some [00:00:30] fun 

asking him exactly how these deals are negotiated, what it's like working with Tom 

Brady, how their Super Bowl commercial with Larry David came together, and what 

might be next for FTX. This was an awesome conversation and I hope you guys 

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Avinash: Joe Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of Joe Pompliano and 

his guests are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp 

Investments. You should not treat any opinion by Joe or his guests as a specific 

inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only 

as an expression of his personal opinion. This [00:04:00] podcast is for informational

purposes only.

Joe: We got a special treat today. Avi from FTX has joined us. Avi, how are you?

Avinash: Doing well, guys. Thanks for having me here. Nice to meet you, Anthony, 

Joe, John, right? I got that right?

Joe: [crosstalk] Yeah, that was pretty good. [laughs] You're good to go, you're good 

to go. So what-what is your exact role at FTX?

Avinash: So I'm Vice President of Business Development at FTX, so I handle a lot 

of our sports partnerships as well as doing some of the interesting things in real 

estate as well. But the end goal is really just how do we take this great platform we 

have at FTX and [00:04:30] acquire more users and also provide more benefits to-to

businesses, whoever that might be.

Joe: All right. So the real estate part sounds interesting. So let's-

[laughter]

-let's-let-let's start with sports maybe first.

Avinash: Sure, sure.

Joe: So in my mind, you guys have been like the leaders in this category, right? 

Everyone laughs now. Crypto is all over the sports industry, whether it's leagues, 

teams, individuals, whatever. But you guys really started this. It started with Miami 

Heat Arena here, and you've done a bunch of other deals since. What is the thought 

process originally behind your involvement within sports specifically?

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Avinash: Yeah, I-I mean, [00:05:00] so much of what happens at FTX is just, you 

know, Sam creates like such an op-- and Brett, the president of our US business, 

just creates such an open environment for people to just throw out like crazy ideas, 

right? And-and I think you want that at any company, especially when it's young and 

it's growing. And, you know, the-the way it-it really started for us is we were on a 

company all-hands call and a bunch of people were just throwing out ideas and 

someone threw out the idea of, "Oh, we should do like an arena."

And-and, you know, I had previously worked at the NBA, and so I was-- kind of like 

raised my hand. I [00:05:30] was like, "Okay, cool. Like I can-- I can look into this." 

This was in January, 2020. And then like, you know, I started looking into it, starting 

getting some more momentum just internally as well. People are like, "Oh, okay, this 

is cool. Let's do this." Talking to a handful of teams and cities, right? Because the 

governments-- local governments are involved as well.

And we kind of identified Miami as like, "Oh, this is really interesting," you know, 

great market, super like-like multicultural, great team. And this [00:06:00] was also 

around the time where like Crypto Buzz was like growing here in Miami. And then, 

you know, honestly, three months later things just kind of snowballed. And we had 

this arena like it happened so fast. Tons of credit to Miami-Dade County and Mayor 

Cava and her staff like to get comfortable with crypto. Like it wasn't easy. No one 

had really done crypto deals. So--

Joel: So how-- so let's stop there for a second. Like, how does this deal actually 

work? Miami, the-the Heat deal specifically, right?

Avinash: Yeah.

Joel: Because I think that the arena, I don't know if it had been like a vacant name 

sponsor for a couple years, I believe, [00:06:30] right?

Avinash: Yep.

Joel: But like how does this work? How do you approach them? How does it get 

negotiated? All that type of stuff.

Avinash: Yeah. You know- you know your history. So American Airlines I think was 

a vacant partner for the last two years. Right. And-and--

Joel: What does that mean? Vacant partner?

Avinash: So-so-so their deal ended and for two years, they technically didn't have a 

naming rights partner, but they left the signage up, right? BecauseJoel: It costs money.

Avinash: - [unintelligible 00:06:49] costs money to take it all down too, right? So 

there's--

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Joel: And they hadn't sold the name yet. [crosstalk]

Avinash: They hadn't sold the name. So they didn't have a new partner. And I think 

this is public, but I think there's the-the county also, there's [00:07:00] some 

stipulation in their agreement with the Heat where they may owe some funds or 

some services in exchange if there's no naming rights partner, right? So they really 

wanted to get a new partner. And-and we kind of came in at the right time.

And, you know, you kind of add on the fact that this was during COVID where, you 

know, a decent amount of live event businesses were-were short on revenue. I think 

kind of opened up the door, right? And that sort of opened up the door where we 

could have the conversation with-with Mayor Cava and Miami-Dade County as well 

as [00:07:30] the Heat. And then they spent a lot of time getting comfortable with our

business.

It required a lot of just financial due diligence, a lot of education, and they took the 

time to learn. Honestly, that's why I give 'em a ton of credit for that. And to get 

approval from a local government, plus the Heat and the NBA who had their own 

diligence teams looking into this really sort of validated not only just FTX but the 

cryptocurrency industry in general. And-and things kind of just snowballed from 

there, right.

Joe: And on the due [00:08:00] diligence piece, I think, I remember seeing a quote 

from Sam that was like, you know, they questioned if Crypto was gonna be around in

years and if he was gonna be able to pay for these things. And he was like, not to 

sound completely absurd, but we could pay for it today if we needed to. Is that part of

the process? You're like, just look how much money we have on our balance sheet, 

like it's not a problem.

Avinash: I mean- I mean they-they have our financials, right?

Joel: Yeah.

Avinash: And we did disclose that and share that and confidentially, you know, and 

there are ways to structure these deals in a way where, you know, you can front load

some of the funds, right, to-to provide some more comfort and the [00:08:30] deal is 

public, right? So anyone can really go and look up what the deal terms are with the 

county.

Joel: And why do you think that they sat for two years without a sponsor?

Avinash: That's a good question. You know, sort of all that predates really my 

involvement and-and really, I don't even know if FTX was really in a position where 

we could acquire an arena at that point. But I think it could be a multitude of reasons.

You know, American Airlines, airline businesses probably took a little bit of a hit 

during-during COVID. That could be one reason. I'm just purely [00:09:00]

speculating here. I have no--

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Joe: What-what is the, like, once you go ahead and you get the naming rights, what 

else comes with it? Cause I- I see that there's usually people FTX-related courtside. I

see, "I went to the game on Monday night" and all of a sudden, they have like 16 

kids basically like run out. They're doing the half-court shot of kids--

Avinash: Crypto chaos.

Joe: Yeah. Kid hits. It goes wild. I'm like, "What just happened?" And all of a sudden 

it pops up like $5,000 in crypto. Like, oh, that kid about to go party his face off.

Participant: Well, we went to the season opener too, and I think you guys gave, uh, 

it was like $500 to every person in a specific [00:09:30] section if they downloaded 

the app, right?

Joe: Yep.

Participant: I'm assuming there's a bunch of apps--

Joe: Yes, like how does this work? Or like what are some of the things you guys are 

doing inside of the state other than just the naming rights?

Avinash: Yeah. Uh, great question. So-so there's really- there's really two deals. 

Like, there's one with the county, which is the naming rights, and then there's a- a 

marketing partnership with the Heat who help activate the arena space.

Joe: Got it. So the Heat are responsible for what happens in the game?

Avinash: Related to the Miami Heat? Yes, correct. Yeah, I mean part of it is 

hospitality, right? Where you entertain gas, you know, we could do giveaways and 

whatnot for, uh, win a ticket to a Heat game, uh, things of that nature. Every game 

we have a lucky seat and lucky row where we give away cryptocurrency, uh, for 

downloading the app to the people in those spaces. And now, we've recently added 

crypto chaos, which is like, I dunno if you guys are, remember that game, like 

Knockout. It's kind of a knockout-ish.

Joe: Yes. They're playing.

Avinash: Yeah. Like everyone was just, he even half shots.

Joe: It was- it was chaos.

[laughter]

It's good. $5,000, $5,000, $5,000. [laughs]

Avinash: It's so- it's so fun. I mean, it's one of the most, like, I-I love that part of the 

game, right? Because the whole arena is cheering for these people to-to make this 

shot. So we've added that element to it. You know, we also have a partnership 

where we're able to sort of leverage Heat assets and whether that be like in social 

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media promotions. We did an NFT drop recently with-with the Miami Heat around the

mashup jersey.

So really excited about that. There's a space called the FTX Token Lounge, which 

we've actually created and turned it into an NFT gallery. It's a way for people to enter

into the arena. We just launched that like a week ago. We'd love to have you guys 

come by at some point. We got LED screens, you know, we got some printouts on 

the- on the hallway entering in. But really just trying to meet the fans where they're 

kind of already at through cryptocurrency, NFTs, and blockchain technology rather 

than try and like force it on them.

Joe: How do you measure success? Like, all right, so you guys go spend this 

money, it's obviously cool, people see it, you know, on the screens, whatever. Do 

you guys measure like, "Hey, how much do we get from downloads or volume?" Or 

is it just like, we think it works and let's figure it out? Like what-what do you do?

Avinash: Yeah, I think there's- there's multiple pieces to like how you measure 

success here. You know, one, like the obvious one is straight-up conversion, right? 

How many people in Florida download the app or around the Miami area, download 

the app, register, deposit, trade, you know, it's that standard sort of funnel that's very

easily to track. But there's this intangible element that's a little bit harder to- to 

quantify and right. And that's just generally like when I go have a conversation withwith a real estate [00:12:00] developer and they're like, that conversation's just 

easier because they've seen FTX at the arena.

Joe: It's Legitimacy as well.

Avinash: Yeah. It's trust. It-it's-it's, you know, legitimacy, same thing when it comes 

to any of our-our team's business development endeavors, right? If you're a trader 

that's at an institution and like, oh, cool, like I've already heard of FTX because of 

FTX Arena, or I saw your Super Bowl spot with-with Larry David or the MLB umpire 

patch. Like it's just building trust and value through brand association, but we have 

[00:12:30] to deliver on that trust and value. Like that opens up the door, but you 

know, we need to help them step through that door and then make sure they have a 

good time when they're in the room with it.

Joe: I'm assuming that's more off of feel than it is actual numbers, right? That's 

probably pretty difficult to quantify.

Avinash: Totally. It-it's, and you know, we see it because, you know, we hear people

be like, "Oh, I love your Super Bowl commercial, or, you know, I had a great time at 

the Heat game, you know, last night, or I can't help but see the FTX on the MLB 

patch, like every ti-- every [00:13:00] pitch." All the staff.

Joe: How did the Larry David commercial come together? Like, obviously I have a 

theory, but I want to hear kind of how you guys came up with that and how that came

together.

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Avinash: Yeah, I mean, so-so there's a really good article written. I-I can't remember

the publication. It might be the Times, but I-I don't--

Joe: It's probably the best business show.

Avinash: Yeah.

[laughter]

That's right. Uh, the best business show. I think-I think they had the best theory on it.

[laughter]

But, you know, we-we have some really good agency partners that are super 

creative, and we also have some great folks [00:13:30] internally on the marketing 

side. They're just great at like, explaining what FTX wants and what FTX really wants

is like, we're trying to just be playful, inviting, and just like, "Hey, like, we're here 

when you're ready." Like, that is our very much, our approach to sort of doing our 

marketing and advertising. And Daniel on our marketing team is-is a super key 

component of our brand messaging. And, you know, another, uh, colleague of mine, 

Cena--

Joe: Both Fantastic.

Avinash: Yeah, both-both great guys, super smart [00:14:00] and just really get our 

brand, and, you know, they really spearheaded that and pulling the right people and 

teams together, you know, and then when we- when we saw the script, we were like,

this script is awesome. And then-then we're like, "We have to get Larry David, right?"

And then, you know, the teams went to work to try, and I don't know if that 

commercial works, if it's not Larry David, right?

Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Avinash: And-and just small sort of teaser, Sam's dad is-is also in that commercial. 

Uh--

Joe: Really?

Avinash: Yeah-yeah. It's a little-little [unintelligible 00:14:24]

Joe: That's amazing. I didn't know that. [chuckles] Yeah. Well, Sam's dad is very 

involved with-- I think it's a foundation? [00:14:30]

Avinash: Yep.

Joe: There's a pretty big philanthropic effort that's going on.

Avinash: A 100% We recently had just had a FTX foundation hackathon at the FTX 

Arena where we-we gave away-- well we awarded a million dollars in pricing for high 

school students that were building businesses in sort of like the-the tech space. So 

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we're really excited about that and Joe Bankman leads a lot of that for us, uh, as well

as we have a lot of other initiatives around climate and that the foundation is super 

focused on-on just the whole idea of effective altruism and, [00:15:00] you know, 

making the world a better place.

Joe: What's going on with F1 Mercedes? You guys I know sponsored the team.

Avinash: Oh, man, uh, I-I love F1, right? Like, you know, drive to survive has gotten 

so many of-of us Americans like pulled into the sport and-and it really is a team sport

all the way from like engineering these cars to executing on-on race day. So we are 

a Mercedes Formula One partner, they've been awesome. This year has been pretty

interesting so far. Last year was, you know, I'm biased, but you know, I didn't agree 

with the results. [00:15:30]

Joe: Lewis Hamilton didn't either.

[laughter]

Avinash: But the guy's a true professional man.

Joe: Yeah.

Avinash: Like the fact that he's back in-in that seat and ready to go again is super 

impressive but we're planning to have a pretty big event here in Miami for the Miami 

Grand Prix, that's May 6th through 8th. We'll be announcing that pretty shortly, but 

expecting a lot of people to come through, doing a lot of activations around just other

Mercedes partners, our partners involved like just try to bring together a whole 

community of people [00:16:00] building cool things together to celebrate that all and

it's gonna be big. I-I wish I could share more details.

Joe: How much money have you guys spent on marketing?

Avinash: Oh, that's a good question.

Joe: Um, like just ballpark. Are we talking 500 million, a billion?

Avinash: Well-well, some of these deal-- like--

Joe: Let's do committed, right? Yeah, they-they're multi-year deals, right?

Avinash: Right-right.

Joe: Committed.

Avinash: I'd say, I'd say over 500.

Joe: Yeah. Over 500 million, you-you-- have you crossed over a billion you think?

Avinash: I-I don't know. I-I-I don't think so.

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Joe: Yeah, because what the-the arena deal [00:16:30] is how much?

Avinash: In total, like if you consider the Heat and the arena portion of it, like close 

to 200.

Joe: Yeah.

Avinash: So that's 200 of-- at least 500.

Joe: And-and that's a 19-year deal, you know, so we're committed.

Avinash: Yeah-yeah, part-part of this is when you do the committed, you could look 

at this, it could be over 20 years, literally.

Joe: Right. But, so $500 million is a huge commitment. What was the major league 

baseball? Is the umms a one-off or is it part of a bigger deal?

Avinash: It's part of a bigger deal. So we have a lot of other components that, you 

know, the-the patch [00:17:00] is so visible, right which we love, but there's so many 

other components to it. Last season we had this campaign called Moon Blasts, so 

every time someone hit a home run over certain, I think it was 400 or 425 feet, then it

was considered a moon blast and so that was branded on social media, FTX Moon 

Blast like so there's that entire element of it, we have some additional--

Joe: That's a very FTX-type thing to do.

[laughter]

And you had the guy at the playoff?

Avinash: Yeah, we had the-the moon, uh, the Moonman.

Joe: They literally had someone show up with like a costume at the games 

[00:17:30] and he was the Moonman.

Avinash: And we planted him behind the umpire in the stands with this giant head, it

was [inaudible 00:17:35]

Joe: You can see 'em right in the screen every game, it was amazing. There's moon 

Boys on Twitter and then there's moon blasts on-in baseball.

[laughter]

So how did the individual deals work, right? Because you've done a bunch of those 

also with Tom Br-- someone in the chat asked if you personally know Tom Brady? 

[laughter]

Avinash: I-I personally do not. I've met him, great guy, like excellent smile, umJoe: Like great hair, great face.

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Avinash: Yeah, some of these [00:18:00] people we meet and they just have this 

like-like gravitas to them, right? Just--

Joe: Yeah.

Avinash: And-and he is that, he's a su-- bonafide superstar, you know, that really 

came through. So, you know, Cena's a-- he works on a lot of our-our-our 

partnerships with-with the athletes. He's done a great job with-with really, not just, 

you know, working with Tom, but Giselle too is also a partner of ours. And so we're 

looking to do more things with her.

Joe: If you're gonna work with the family, you better work with the richer of the two.

[laughter]

Avinash: Totally. And like, you know, you keep them both involved together, right? 

And I think that makes the partnership [00:18:30] stronger. And, you know, again, 

credit to them, they're open about learning. Like-like they-they will say, "Hey, I'm 

comfortable with this. I'm not comfortable with this. Help me learn about this." Andand our team who-who handles those relationships have done a great job with--

Joe: Is Brady a Bitcoiner?

Avinash: He is. Yeah. I mean, you've seen like those videos he's throwing, like 

there's-there's one video that he made on his own, I mean, his teammate, but he 

throws a football like into the sky, and he's got like laser eyes on it, and the Bitcoin 

like comes down. So he's--he's--

Joe: But it's amazing [00:19:00] you guys had nothing to do with that video. [laughs]

Avinash: Because I-I think that that's what-- those are the partnerships we love, 

where like, you get them excited about crypto, and then they kind of authentically 

take it in the direction that they want to take it has been the most successful stuff that

we've done.

Joe: How do you guys think about, like, you added, I believe, equity part of Tom 

Brady's deal. Like how important is that to align incentives with these individual 

athletes for these marketing deals?

Avinash: Great question. Like-like, these guys have money, right? Like-like-like you 

kind of kind of figure out like what gets [00:19:30] them excited about partnering with

you, and he doesn't need another X millions of dollars more, but if he's got an 

investment in-in something, and they're competitors, right? So like-like in a way, 

business is competition, right? And he's kind of aligning himself with FTX, which we 

love, right? And he-he thinks, and-and backs us that-that we're strong competitor. So

I think that validates FTX, but also gives him some access to be competitive in the-- 

in this world that he wants to learn more about and compete in.

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Joe: [00:20:00] What-what about the Stephen Curry? I-I saw that there's a brand 

new, I guess, commercial orAvinash: Yeah.

Joe: -video that you guys put out, and he's like chiseling the ice andAvinash: Yeah.

Joe: -uh, I think Shaq does the voiceoverAvinash: Yeah.

Joe: -and he's like, "Tell Shaq stop playing." Right? Uh, but like when you guys do 

that type of stuff, how much of that is like they have ideas for the creative versus you

guys are like, "Okay, we're gonna do, you know, A, B, C, here's the scenes, you 

know, you justAvinash: Yeah.

Joe: -gotta do your kind of acting role.

Avinash: Yeah, I mean, they're generally so busy, so when it's hard to get their time.

So when you have it, like you wanna have a plan as to what you wanna do. 

[00:20:30] So-so we-we have a plan, right? We have a script. We're like, "Hey, 

here's the theme." You know, we keep them, Steph and his team involved 

throughout the entire process, because they gotta be comfortable doing it. If it's not 

authentic to your brand, like they're not gonna do it. I think this last spot, the not a 

expert spot is-is really authentic to him, 'cause like he's interested in crypto, but 

doesn't know a ton about itJoe: Mm-hmm.

Avinash: -but wants to, right? And that makes it approachable. And I think that 

aligns with what FTX's sort of ethos. Is it's like, "Hey, [00:21:00] [00:21:00] like, 

we're here when you're ready, or like, come to us to like learn and, you know, you're 

not alone in this process." Right? Like, you know, Steph, like arguably, you know, the

best basketball player on the planet is successful at so many things, but here's 

something that he is not the best at. But he's willing to admit that and say he wants 

to learn.

Joe: Try to learn.

Avinash: And come with us on that journey is really important.

Joe: David Schwab did that deal?

Participant: I'm not sure he works at Octagon. So maybe, yeah.

Joe: Yeah, he did.

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Participant: All right. Yeah. Look, he-he'll be happy we gave him a little shout-out.

Joe: Here we go.

Participant: David Schwab [laughs]. What else?

Joe: [00:21:30] I was just gonna ask about the real estate stuff. What do you do on 

the real estate side?

Avinash: Oh, yeah. This-this is my- this is my new sort of like excitement and 

passion right now.

Joe: We're in.

[laughter]

If you- if you need partners, we're in.

Avinash: Let's-let's talk about this. So we're helping a lot of, um, condo 

developments specifically here in Miami except cryptocurrency payments for 

purchases. The first couple that we did is with 11 eleven Residences, which is a 

PMG property. [crosstalk] Uh, and then also, uh, with the Waldorf Astoria. I'm 

actually going to a real estate [00:22:00] event tonight with the Diesel Wynwood 

Condominiums in Wynwood. So they're now a partner and we've done a partnership 

with Paramount as well. And I got off the call before here with another big, uh, real 

estate firm. Does, like, people just want, like, the interesting thing about right now, it's

like, "Hey, let's accept payments for real estate."

And what that really does is, one, you guys know. If you transact in crypto, you're in 

control. You could do it anytime. You don't have to wait for a wire transfer cutoff, 

you're in control. And it's just infinitely [00:22:30] more seamless. And then plus a lot

of people in crypto have made money. So if you give them a way to sort of diversify 

their assets into a asset class, like real estate, there's value there. And then sort of 

the third point is like a lot of international buyers really prefer it. It's just easier to 

move the money.

Joe: Do-do you wear a, uh, a suit and tie when you go to these events? Or you show

up in the FTX t-shirt?

Avinash: Uh, I'm a t-shirt guy. I did bring a blazer. I'm not sure if I'm gonna wear, uh,

to be honest, like I brought a blazer to work. I'm not sure if I'm gonna wear it or not, 

but, uh, I just brought it just in case. Like--

Joe: I feel like that's an insurance [00:23:00] policy.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: Like that may be one of the industries that, and like lawyers.

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Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: Those two together.

Avinash: So I'm-I'm feeling it out like, uh, I'm definitely wearing sneakers [laughs], 

like forget the dress shoes.

Joe: What's the process like when a company, a traditional like mortgage company 

or whatever for loans is like, "Hey, we want to start accepting payments in crypto." 

Like, do you guys just go in and help them set it all up? Like what's the process like?

Avinash: Yeah, totally. It's actually fairly easy. Like we have an agreement, you 

know, we've sort of templatized at this point. We're just essentially accepting funds 

crypto [00:23:30] and then converting it in real-time to dollars and putting those 

dollars wherever it needs to go. Whether that's to the seller or to the title company, 

right?

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Avinash: Like they don't really wanna hold crypto. So it's really the benefit is more 

so for the buyer, ease of transaction for the buyer.

Joe: How many people actually wanna buy using crypto versus the buildings or the 

building Managers want to say they accept it, but they don't actually have any 

anticipation of people actually buying? Like, it's like a-- I've seen them, cool 'cause I 

accept it, but no one's gonna do it 'cause of the tax ramifications, et cetera.

Avinash: Well, the tax, you have to pay taxes [00:24:00] regardless. Right. So I-I 

don't think that's really a deterrent.

Joe: Well, right now if I buy the building, if I-- let's say I buy a condo and I buy it in 

cash, I just pay the sales tax or-or whatever.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: But if I buy it in crypto, I have to pay the capital gains on top of the sales tax, 

except like--

Avinash: Correct.

Joe: That's why I always wonder, I've seen a couple of announcements in Miami, 

which I'm assuming you guys were involved in, where people bought, you know, 

some are $5 million, some are $20 million type condo purchases in crypto.

Avinash: Yep.

Joe: I'm like, man, are they really paying capital gains tax on doing [00:24:30] it? But

I guess like if you have a 100% of your assets in crypto, like you have no other 

choice.

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Avinash: Th-th-that's what I'm saying, like a lot of, like most of them, some are 

international buyers, so it's just easier to transfer. Some are I, some people would 

just be YOLO buying condos, right?

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Avinash: Because they-they can, you know, I think today it just starts with-with 

cryptocurrency payments, but to your point, right? Like, you know, would love to get 

to a point where, okay, you know, if I have a-a million dollars in-in Bitcoin, like can I 

take out a mortgage against that, right? So then I don't have to sell my Bitcoin or can

I borrow against it in some particular [00:25:00] way and, you know, tie that closer to

real estate.

I-I think we're gonna get there, it's just a matter of when. Like technically, I think we 

can get there like tomorrow, but like- but like-like regulatory-wise and just like, you 

know, smoothing all that stuff over. I think that's-that's really sort of where the hurdle 

is. And that's a big thing that we're-we're doing at FTX, right? Like Sam and Brett 

spend a ton of time in DC working with the regulators, like educating them. Like we 

make sure we have all of our licenses.

So it's just super important for [00:25:30] us to-to be up to speed and-and do things 

the right way. So when we wanna offer these cool, fun products that people are kind 

of used to already, but now put a crypto spin on it, I think is gonna be really 

interesting.

Joe: How have those conversations with DC and everything changed over the last 

year?

Avinash: You know, I'm not personally involved in them, but like, just from like the 

outside, I-I think they've gone really, really well. And so much of that is just cause like

you guys know, right? Like one, okay, you hear about Bitcoin or you hear about any 

cryptocurrency, but then you like, put a [00:26:00] little skin in the game, whether it's 

like a $100, $1,000 or whatever, then you start like paying attention to it more and 

you learn more and you see the use cases. And I think it's just, uh, the time and the 

effort that's been spent has really moved things forward. And I only see like, it's just 

gonna trend upward.

Joe: Well, it sounds too like when you guys first started doing these partnerships, 

take the Miami Heat for example, they were questioning maybe is not the right word, 

but interested to see if this industry was gonna be here in a decade, right?

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: And asking the right questions and now it's, people are coming to you guys to 

do partnerships, I'm sure, right? [00:26:30]

Avinash: Yeah, 100%. Like, you know, our inboxes are flooded, like, you know, 

people know we've spent a-a little bit of money on-on some sponsorships, so, you 

know, we see a lot of interesting things.

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Joe: What's the- what's the craziest thing someone's asked you guys to do?

Avinash: I saw like-like a Canadian, like, curling team was like super, just like wacky

and just like out there, one of my favorite ones that we've done is, uh, we wrote the 

Fortunes for Fortune Cookies. So a few-- and-and I-I forget how many we, but 

they're all over the US. So if you, [00:27:00] like, you know, you get a fortune cookie 

from one of these restaurants, it'll say FTX on the back, and Alec, the guy who runsJoe: Who runs our Fortune cookie business?

[laughter]

How much is a fortune cookie?

Avinash: He-he's our-he's our-he runs our Twitter handles, he wrote most of the 

fortunes.

Joe: No way.

Avinash: Um, so like youJoe: Shout on Alec.

[laughter]

That's amazing.

Avinash: And they're really-they're really witty, he did-he did a great job.

Joe: Like what- so like, take that for example, right?

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: Because I think a lot of people like, what do you mean, whatever, is it just a 

branding exercise or like, is there like a QR code that people can scan and then--

Avinash: Yeah, it's just a branding, [00:27:30] you know, you, you know, you-you 

ordered like an Asian meal and, you know, you're done with a meal, you-you crack 

open the fortune cookie and, you know, you see an FTX logo and it's like some witty,

just like fortune around, it's-it's all crypto related fortunes.

Joe: Got it. Got it.

Avinash: Like blockchain and crypto-related fortunes.

Joe: And so when you do that, I'm assuming that there's some kind of analysis on 

like, "Hey, we're arbing the potential eyeballs that are gonna look at this versus like 

what it costs", and I always wonder if you were to unleash, you know, like intelligent 

[00:28:00] quantitative people on marketing, which I'll put FTXs as, you know, a 

leader here, it seems like that's really what you guys are doing, right? You're trying to

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figure out like what are all the mispriced marketing opportunities in the market and 

then you go and you just attack those and you're not scared to kind of do it with 

conviction.

Avinash: For sure, that's like, at a high level, that is what it is like what's sort of like 

mispriced, I mean maybe things, I think sports partnerships now are less mispriced 

for crypto. Like, 'cause like everything's been bid up, but when we got into it, I think it

was mispriced-- not mispriced, that's like a-- [00:28:30] it was just like, there was an 

opportunity, like there was value there.

Joe: Yeah. I just got a text from someone. They said, "Hey, man, I'm watching this 

show and I can say that I've had a few of those FTX fortune

Cookies from our favorite Chinese place in Chicago.

[laughter]

The branding Chicago.

Avinash: Exactly right. And-and people-people tweet them out. So there's like this 

just natural like good vibe feeling that comes with that, right?

Joe: Yeah.

Avinash: And-and you, some of that's not quantifiable, right? But someone cracks 

that open, sees FTX, feels good about it like maybe they think differently [00:29:00]

about the--

Joe: If I got that, you know what I would think? I'm like, these guys are everywhere. 

They're literally infiltrating the fortune cookie industry. I saw Sam at one point was 

like, I think he was joking, but he was like, ah, maybe at some point we should like 

start doing things 'cause like the rest of the industry will do it as well and like throw 

'em off our scent. Yeah, he's like, "I'm gonna lose money on purpose", I think is what 

he said.

[crosstalk]

Participant: They're one of the fortune cookies up right now, it says, in retrospect it 

was inevitable.

[laughter]

Joe: When-when you guys think about-- like have you guys ever actually considered

like trying to fake out everyone else and like do something that would, [00:29:30]

you guys put a little bit of money lose on purpose and then let everyone else go 

spend all their money?

Avinash: I mean, there's definitely some-some games-gamesmanship.

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[crosstalk]

There's some gamesmanship that goes along with-with, you know, anytime there's a 

counterparty involved.

Joe: Yeah.

Avinash: Right. So--

Joe: So the fortune cookies or the money-losing one?

Avinash: No, I mean, it's-it's-it's hard to, like I wouldn't, honestly, I think that's-that 

one's been like, you knowParticipant: I actually think that was really smart. I actually, that was really smart.

Joe: So like what-what would be, I wanna like just sit here and brainstorm for a 

second, what would be [00:30:00] something that you guys could do, that would 

throw everyone else off. Like, I feel like the sports stuff--

Avinash: We can't reveal it on air. [laughs]

Joe: Trust me. You could definitely say a lot of stuffAvinash: People will steal it.

Joe: [unintelligible 00:30:08] [crosstalk] Follow. No, they're-they're trying to trick us

into thinking that it wouldn't work, but it really would work. [laughter] But it feels like, 

like I saw in Miami, right? There was just ultra, there was a whole bunch of stuff.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: And one day I, I was walking and I just saw like 17 planes all pulling like the 

banners behind them.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: And I was like, what are the odds that I can-- won't even see any of those? 

[00:30:30] But also too, like I understand what it means, I remember it and I go and 

it converts and it's like, it's probably not that much. There's also like those screen 

that floatsAvinash: Yep.

Joe: -in-in the water.

Avinash: I see those all the time from my farm.

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Joe: Yeah. And it's like, I've seen it over and over and over again. I probably could 

remember maybe two of the ads I've seen. But then I went and I looked, how much 

does this cost? It's like nothing.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: Right? It-- it's-it's so inexpensive that I feel like some teams are just like, we 

might as well do it. And it's just a pure branding exercise that has nothing to do with 

conversion.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: But the cost to the impression number is so [00:31:00] skewed that you're just 

like, screw it, whatever. And for those people, they're making money and so they 

keep the cost low without, you know, really worrying about trying to price it at the-the 

high price point.

Avinash: Totally, and it's that-- that's an awareness play, right? Like you're just 

trying to get people aware of FTX. So then okay, they see, you know, that boat go by

and it's an FTX logo or some quick hit about it. They see the plane go by. Oh, FTX. 

But then when they get to FTX Arena and there's an opportunity to, I don't know, 

check out with FTX pay or something of that nature, I think, oh cool. Like I've seen 

that [00:31:30] brand twice already. Here's for the third time and this is kind of what 

they do. Let me now convert, right? So--

Joe: You wanna know what I think you guys should do?

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: I think you guys should open a bar. If you open a bar in Miami. Cause there's a 

ton of young people who have started to move here.

Avinash: Yep.

Joe: Right? There's a lot of crypto folks who have moved here, et cetera. But if you 

make it a fun bar, it then infiltrates into the conversations and what ends up 

happening is, it's kinda like a club or-or some of this other stuff. Right? It becomes 

the center of people's social life.

Avinash: Right.

Joe: [00:32:00] And once you do that, like you win.

Participant: Well, you could probably make money doing it too.

[laughter]

[crosstalk]

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Participant: It’s like I [unintelligible 00:32:08] $500 million [unintelligible 

00:32:09].

Joe: Even if you did things like, you know, hey, if, uh, certain times there's like FTX, 

you know, specific events, but if it literally was just like the FTX bar and it was just 

fun. It was like genuinely fun to go to and people would go there regardless of what 

the name was.

Avinash: Right.

Joe: You just infiltrate into the social life and like a bunch of 25-year-old kids, like, 

where are we gonna go tonight? Like, oh, every Friday we go to FTX bar.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: You just immediately [00:32:30] become part of the conversation. And it feels 

like those are the types of things where like the arena when people, they're not 

thinking, "Hey, I'm marketing FTX, but like, hey, I'm going to FTX Arena."

Avinash: Correct.

Joe: "I'm going to the game." There's other things that you could do that are like that.

And I don't know what the legal risks are of, uh--

Avinash: Yeah. Well, you guys wanna open that bar up with us?

Joe: Sure.

Avinash: Like let's-let's do it.

Joe: Sure. [laughs] I-I'm being dead serious.

Avinash: [laughs] No, I'm not saying--

Participant: I've been com-- [crosstalk]

Joe: I'm not gonna run it?

Avinash: I have been complaining too. [laughs]

Joe: Yeah. Well, we'll find someone to operate it. But-- I've been complaining about 

the bars in Miami too. [laughs]

Avinash: Perfect.

[crosstalk]

Joe: We are not-- We have, uh,-- [unintelligible 00:32:58]

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Avinash: If we got to [unintelligible 00:32:59] street research? [00:33:00]

[crosstalk]

Avinash: No, my brother cannot [unintelligible 00:33:03] I am out.

Participant: We're not-we're not-we're not interviewing if you're running.

[laughter]

Avinash: If John's the general manager, [crosstalk] I'm out.

Participant: You guys aren't making money.

Avinash: Well, that's the problem.

[laughter]

Joe: Yeah, yeah. I think we may not make money.

Avinash: I know you. You and all your friends will be there all the time.

Joe: Nah.

Avinash: We won't make any money.

Joe: Yeah. My friends will be paying covers to get it.

[laughter] And-and they'll be downloading the FTX. [laughter]

Participant: I love it. I love it.

Joe: Have you guys sponsored college athletes?

Avinash: We have, yes. We've done a couple of teams and a couple of players. Uh, 

I think we've done the [00:33:30] UCLA women's basketball team, a softball team in 

Florida, Kentucky men's basketball team.

Joe: Yeah.

Avinash: So we experimented in the NIL space. Like, I think it's interesting and 

there's definitely value in there, especially because so many of these athletes want 

to build their brand and like they also learn about it, and they're also really good at it, 

right? They're-they're natively just good at social media. But there are some 

challenges. And those challenges are just like, you know, they're still- they're still 

college students, right? Their-their main focus is, [00:34:00] you know, going to 

[unintelligible 00:34:01] playing bask-- like playing sports.

[laughter]

Going to class.

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[laughter]

Joe: Let's just call a speed, a spade.

[laughter]

Participant: Play sports and they wanna party. That's what they're trying to do.

Avinash: Yeah. It's like still hard. Like I remember when I was like, you know, 19, 20

when it's, this hard-hard to get people to do things, but some of them are great andand totally get it. It-- I think there needs to be a little bit more structure in that space 

and it's gonna come. Uh, and these-- there's some platforms out there that have 

been really helpful in-in helping sort of put the plan out there. But I think there's a lot 

of value there once that gets sorted out and figured out.

Joe: Yeah. I-- if you [00:34:30] really think about it, if you're like an enterprising, you 

know, 18 to 22 year old and you're good at your sport, you could make an absolute 

bag right now. Because there's so much capital that everyone-- it feels like 

everyone's like, that market's going to be big and I need to get there early.

Participant: Yep.

Joe: And they don't know really kinda what the cost should be. They don't know how

effective it is. Like there's a lot of kind of fragmentation. And so if you actually have a 

big following and you understand business, like you-you probably [unintelligible 

00:34:55]

Participant: Most people don't have agents either, right? Which is one piece of it. So

they're-- [crosstalk]

Joe: Yeah. But they have [00:35:00] like somebody looking after their life.

Avinash: Yeah, they got their brother or their mom [laughs] or their--

Participant: But the deal is my point. Is there much less structured, right? They're 

not-- they're not nearly as.

Joe: Is it worse to call up a college athlete and him be like, okay, I've got an agent 

that works at, you know, CAA or whatever, or to be like, yeah, my mom handles my 

deals. Which one- which-which one are you like, Dave? [laughs]

Participant: I-I-I feel like I'd rather deal with the agent.

[laughter]

Right? Yeah. Like, even if I gotta pay extra, its like, [laughs] let's just deal with the 

agent.

Joe: Like, imagine if our mom was like our agent [00:35:30] and she'd be like, "My 

boys are worth so much more." [laughter]

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Participant: Right?

Joe: Like every mom would be that 100%--

Participant: Jonny need to post this yesterday. Why didn't he post? He'll post it 

when he wants.

[laughter]

That's literally what would happen.

Avinash: That's great.

Joe: Yeah. It's like, I-I-I don't know, it just feels like when there is fragmentation, 

sometimes actually the fragmentation's bad. We talk all time about the Miami 

apartment scene.

Avinash: Yep.

Joe: Is completely different than New York. Like in New York, the landlords are on it.

They know exactly what the deal is. There's laws, there's regulations. You can't raise

rent too much, like all this stuff. In Miami, multiple friends, we know [00:36:00] where

they're like, "We're raising rent 30%." And you're like, you can't do this. Like, we can 

do whatever we want. And you're like, "I wanna go back to the structure."

Avinash: It's free. It's a free for all.

Joe: Yeah. They show you comps. You're like, that's from two towns over.

[laughter]

Avinash: Like, that has nothing to do with my apartment.

Joe: The, uh, the-the one that, uh, I keep seeing on Instagram, there's an apartment 

in one of the buildings on I-I guess what it is, Brooklyn Avenue.

Avinash: Mm-hmm.

Joe: And it's like a $50 million apartment.

Avinash: Jeez.

Joe: And all these like real estate Instagram accounts, went and took a tour. There's 

a video that they all [00:36:30] keep using and it's got indoor pool, it's got all this 

stuff and everything. And I always just think of like, the landlords sitting there be like, 

well, if they're selling $50 million apartment down the street, then my thing is worth, 

you know, at least a million. [laughs] You're like, that's not how this works. They have

an indoor pool. You have a pool on the roof that sometimes is open.

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Participant: 100%. Uh, it's-it's-it's a little wacky out there for sure in the real estate 

market here. And you know, I think doing stuff with crypto and maybe bringing a little 

bit more transparency through that can be really beneficial. How long have you lived 

in Miami? Eight months?

Avinash: Eight months.

Participant: [00:37:00] Yeah. Okay, cool.

Avinash: Yeah.

Participant: Where did you come from?

Avinash: So, I'm kind of all around from upstate New York, school in Boston, then 

San Francisco, Los Angeles, and then now here.

Participant: Oh, smart move.

Avinash: Yeah.

Participant: Yeah

Participant: Yeah. You like it? Are you staying?

Avinash: Yeah-yeah. We love- we love it in Miami. We just bought a house, so.

Participant: Yeah. Smart.

Avinash: It's-it's the, uh, it's a good place. [laughs]

Participant: Things are- things are- things are happening.

Avinash: We went to, uh, we went to LA for the Super Bowl and we were trying to 

figure out where the 52% of your income was going.

[laughter]

Joe: We thought they'd be flying cars. We thought, you know, the weather's great, 

[00:37:30] don't get me wrong.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: But--

Avinash: For sure.

Joe: It's a nice place to visit now.

Avinash: Yeah.

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Joe: The part that cracks me up-up when people come to, uh, Miami is like, it's one 

thing when people from Miami go somewhere else, like, oh, this is like a little off for 

whatever reason. But when people come here now, I feel like they're just like, damn 

this is what freedom looks like.

Avinash: Yeah.

Joe: Right. And like, they're talking about everything from, you know, pandemicrelated stuff to the economy, to the, just the way that the local government feels to 

be encouraging local business, like all this stuff. And it makes you actually thankful, 

like grateful. Like, you know, most people didn't [00:38:00] move here with their eyes

wide open. Like that's why they were moving. But once you get here and you get into

it and you're like, oh, okay. Like this is where I want to be.

Avinash: Totally. I-I feel like in-in Miami, there's not really rules. They're like 

guidelines.

[laughter]

Joe: Yeah.

Participant: You know- you know, you can follow them.

Avinash: The Mayor's like, shit.

[laughter]

Participant: You like, follow them or-or-or not. But like, I feel like most people, you 

know, if you treat them like adults, they'll behave like adults.

Joe: Yeah-yeah-yeah.

Participant: You know, like, and-and that's, there's like this general mutual respect. 

So yeah, I think that's been really referring.

Joe: I completely agree with that. Before we let you go, where can [00:38:30] people

go? Like what-what would be helpful to FTX or like, how do you guys wanna help 

people that are watching this?

Avinash: Thanks for that. I-I-I would say, you know, follow us on Twitter, on 

Instagram, ftx.us if you wanna open an account. If you're in Miami, you know, come 

to our event, which we'll-we'll be announcing for the Miami Grand Prix. I think we'll be

announcing next week. But, you know, excited to, and opening that up to-to anyone 

and everyone.

Joe: Somebody suggested also you should do FTX barf bags on the- on the 

airplanes. I don't know if that's good or bad. [00:39:00] It's probably cheap relative 

impressions.

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[laughter]

[crosstalk]

Avinash: I don't think I've ever thrown up on a plane. Like, yeah. I don't think those 

[unintelligible 00:39:10] that much.

Joe: Uh, to-to be honest, actually, uh, now that I'm thinking about it is, I bet you no 

one's ever done an advertising deal inside of the plane but like, you're just sitting 

there staring.

Avinash: Right. Right.

Participant: Well, you can do the airbag comes down and you're like, "Oh, let me 

check out the [unintelligible 00:39:24] first. Well, if I go sell or did say Bitcoin was 

oxygen, so like--

Avinash: Y-you know what, I always see the Marriott Bonvoy [00:39:30] commercial

play before, like every movie that I try and watch [crosstalk] and credit card ads. I 

mean, they literally go down the aisle trying to sell you--

[laughter]

[crosstalk]

And it's only rewards they talking about. It's not like what the APR or any of that stuff.

Participant: We've been 27% APR but don't listen to that. You get 500 airline points.

Joe: You can go to [unintelligible 00:39:50] for one night.

[laughter]

Avinash: Yeah. That's crazy.

Joe: Thank you so much for coming on.

Avinash: Hey, thank you guys so much for having me. This is- this is fun. This is 

really fun.

Joe: We're gonna bring back after you guys do something [00:40:00] else crazy.

Avinash: Sure when we open that bar, like let's-let's, uh, what we could do is 

[unintelligible 00:40:03]

Joe: We're gonna message you afterwards. [crosstalk] John is gonna find the GM 

and we'll mean business.

Avinash: Sounds great, guys. Thank you. Thanks so much.

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Joe: Alright. Thank you, buddy. All right, everyone. That's it for today. I hope you 

enjoyed this episode. And as always, I appreciate you listening to the Joe Pomp 

Show. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on Apple or Spotify so that you don't 

miss any episodes going forward. And if you are looking for additional content, check

out my daily newsletter at readhuddleup.com [00:40:30] or follow me on Twitter 

@JoePompliano. I hope you have a great day and I'll see you next time.

[00:40:38] [END OF AUDIO]

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