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MEETING MINUTES

Meeting Date and Time: March 9, 2022, 1:36-2:58 pm (EST)

Location: Webex

Agenda: 

1. New COFO Executive Committee

2. Ombuds Day 2022 is October 13th – Federal rep still needed on committee!

3. COFO Website – help still needed!

4. Reminder: Peer Practitioner Network participant survey

5. Voluntary Leave Transfer Initiative reminder

6. Next Ombuds Supporting Ombuds (OSO) meeting 3/23/22

7. Announcements – Training opportunities, job openings, or really any office and ombudsman 

happenings you'd like to tell the world about

8. General Questions - Space for new and emerging practitioners and programs to ask questions 

and get feedback from the COFO community in a short discussion format

o How long do people have to leave voicemails on your system before it cuts them off? 

For example, some systems have a voicemail length limits of 2-3 minutes and then the 

system ends the message and hangs up on the caller. This sometimes can impact people 

attempting to leave detailed messages with us.

9. Discussion Topics –

o As federal agencies look to transition back to the physical workplace, let’s talk about 

some trends in that area. Based on what we’ve seen in the last week, rules governing 

masking and testing for onsite employees are being relaxed, at least for the moment. 

Have you seen cases come in related to that? How will this apply to your own practice? 

What about your personal approach to work and meeting with people in person?

o Your topic here!

Highlights:

1. New COFO Executive Committee

a. Paul acknowledged first COFO meeting of new Exec Committee, introduced Guy, 

Mollie, Heather as members continuing service from last term, and introduced Jason 

and Marcus as new members, and Tyler assisting Heather with the Coordinator role.

b. Deep thanks and appreciation to those from prior Exec Committee who just 

completed their terms, and to the Election Committee for their hard work reviewing 

and processing nominations, setting us up for welcoming new committee members.

2. Ombuds Day 2022 is October 13th – Federal rep still needed on committee!
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a. Reminder of date, October 13, Ryan Smith joined us last time to share more 

information. 

b. We are still looking for a federal representative on that committee. Ken Skodacek 

previously served, giving COFO significant representation on that committee.

c. Ombuds Day is coordinated through the ABA’s Dispute Resolution Section Ombuds 

Committee and the Ombuds Day Subcommittee.

d. Please consider volunteering to serve as the federal representative for this year’s 

Ombuds Day. Additional email reminders will be distributed in the near future.

e. Please reach out to Paul or Ryan if interested.

3. COFO Website – help still needed!

a. Still in need of a new home. If your agency or an organization you are aware of has 

the ability to host, please let us know.

4. Reminder: Peer Practitioner Network participant survey

a. Please complete participant survey if you are able to, it will help us with planning for 

the Peer Practitioner Network.

b. Network point of contact Susanne Porch mentioned that she sent an email to those 

who have already expressed an interest in joining, and reminded that survey closes 

today.

c. Will be holding meeting in near future to discuss roles and next steps.

d. If you want to join the Peer Practitioner Network, please reach out to POC and 

please remember to complete survey if you are a network participant and haven’t 

been able to complete the survey to this point.

5. Voluntary Leave Transfer Initiative reminder

a. Initiative is to support federal employees who need leave transfers, but not able to 

ask others in their agency for support due to ombuds’ needing to be impartial and 

independent.

b. Initiative alleviates that discomfort by allowing ombuds to transfer leave to each 

other interagency. 

c. If you think you might need leave, and if you have been approved for the voluntary 

transfer program within your agency, please let us at COFO know and we can 

facilitate the transfer from another ombuds.

6. Next Ombuds Supporting Ombuds (OSO) meeting 3/23/22

a. Next meeting March 23 from 2pm to 3pm.

b. Some history, OSO started shortly after pandemic began to create spaces for 

ombuds to connect about things going on in our own lives, a bit less professional 

and a bit more personal, in order to support the needs of COFO ombuds.

c. Heather added that last month Olivia Walker joined and presented, which was 

wonderful and very interactive. Nothing out of the ordinary planned for this month’s 
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meeting, but Heather will send out an update with information about this month’s 

meeting shortly. 

7. Announcements – Training opportunities, job openings, or really any office and ombudsman 

happenings you’d like to tell the world about

a. Noreen Kinnavy shared that, if there is anyone in the COFO community (not 

necessarily an ombuds) who is interested and able to take this on, someone in her 

agency is hoping to learn more about the ombuds and ADR profession. They are 

looking for a placement of between four to eight weeks, would be working under 

the ombuds/ADR practitioner’s supervision as an intern. Reach out to Noreen by 

phone or email if anyone has an interest. Her contact information was shared in the 

WebEx chat box. Thank you in advance for considering the opportunity.

i. Paul asked if she can share the person’s grade level, and whether that is 

even material to the internship or detail. Also, what would the timing be?

ii. Apparently the person looking to intern/detail is a GS-13 (90% sure). In 

terms of timing, there is flexibility, but she otherwise isn’t sure of the 

exact timeframe this person needs to intern/detail within. 

b. New ombuds at George Mason University welcomed herself, first COFO meeting 

attended, wanted to raise that she will be looking to hire a Coordinator and is 

hopeful that position will post within the next month or so. Also shared she is hoping 

the Coordinator can be someone who is ultimately interested in ombuds work to 

give that person experience. 

i. Paul asked if she knew the potential salary range, GMU ombuds 

responded that the higher end of the salary range would be $65,000. Not 

an ombuds position, but hoping it will be someone interested in ombuds 

work to allow them the opportunity to work in an office and eventually 

transition into an ombuds role. 

ii. Will likely be posted at some time in the next few weeks.

iii. Member unmuted themselves and thanked the GMU ombuds for 

thinking to look for a new and aspiring ombuds, given the difficulty 

aspiring ombuds have breaking into the field. Paul reiterated that 

person’s thanks to the GMU ombuds. 

8. General Questions - Space for new and emerging practitioners and programs to ask questions 

and get feedback from the COFO community in a short discussion format

a. One that was already submitted in advance, Paul read it to the group and opened it up for 

discussion:

i. How long do people have to leave voicemails on your system before it cuts 

them off? For example, some systems have a voicemail length limit of 2-3 

minutes and then the system ends the message and hangs up on the caller. This 

can sometimes impact people attempting to leave detailed messages with us.

1. Someone shared that at one point in time, their voicemail length limit 

was 20 minutes, which they do not recommend because people will 

leave 20 minute messages and then possibly even call back to leave 

another message and say more.
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2. Someone else shared that they believes their own voicemail length limit 

is 2-3 minutes as well and that seems sufficient. 

3. Someone else shared that, when reading the question, they assumed 

the person posing the question had the goal of reducing as opposed to 

extending the length limit for the purposes of not creating more 

detailed records. 

4. Someone shared that in the federal space, ombuds don’t need to worry 

about that as much because of ADRA. Outside the federal space, people 

are indeed cautious of anything that gathers more information than 

would be comfortable for an ombuds not protected by ADRA. One 

solution proposed by this personis starting the recording by stating how 

long they have, and asking them to keep their message to a one or two 

sentence explanation of what they are looking for. 

5. Someone added that it’s one thing to not want a record, but it’s another 

to want enough information to be prepared for the call that will 

eventually take place. Without understanding what they are looking for 

in advance, that creates more back and forth because when the ombuds 

finally connects with the person/visitor, the ombuds might need to 

schedule yet another call once the ombuds has had the opportunity to 

research and/or further consider how they can be helpful to that 

person/visitor. 

6. Someone added agreement with the previous comment, and that there 

is value in getting basic background information on what the 

person/visitor wants, and limiting your voicemail length to a happy 

medium. 

b. No other general questions posed. 

9. Discussion Topics –

a. Guy Weber led the discussion of the following question:

i. As federal agencies look to transition back to the physical workplace, let’s talk 

about some trends in that area. Based on what we’ve seen in the last week, 

rules governing masking and testing for onsite employees are being relaxed, at 

least for the moment. Have you seen cases come in related to that? How will 

this apply to your own practice? What about your personal approach to work 

and meeting with people in person?

ii. Someone shared that in their workspace, people are back, and there’s been a 

lot of discussion about masking policies and when is it ok to shed the masks, 

particularly because the policy depends on local transmission rates. To them, it 

feels almost back to normal. They shared that only about 5% of the people in 

their office are masking, and this person is one of them because 1) they have a 

three-year-old at home and, 2) they don’t want to be the one transmitting to 

visitors. 

iii. Someone mentioned that the last person who spoke is in St. Louis, for 

clarification, and asked that person if St. Louis is at the low transmission level. 

The person in St. Louis answered that the city is in the middle transmission area, 

and that is announced at the end of each week as a barometer for whether or 

not masking is required the following week. Someone clarified that what was 

low a few months ago is no longer low. A few weeks ago, the DC area was either 
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high or close to it, but under the new guidelines DC is no longer high, closer to 

low. 

iv. Someone else added that in their agency, when there are cases affecting a 

particular office, everyone in that office is reassigned back out to telework, 

although a vast majority of workforce still teleworking. That agency also puts 

out information about how many new reported COVID cases there are which 

allows people to decide their own masking comfort level. Also appreciated 

another person’s comments on if the ombuds were to test positive, for contact 

tracing purposes, would need to reach out to someone they met with which 

could create an abundance of problems. 

v. Someone mentioned that their agency is not back yet, but will be soon. That 

agency promised everyone 30 days notice before expected to report back to 

office, but that email is expected in the next few days. This person asked within 

the agency if ombuds are allowed to require masks when the ombuds physically 

meets with people. They haven’t received an answer yet, unsure of whether 

they’ll be able to require masks on visitors. Curious about what others have set 

up in terms of plans to go back, logistics once back, etc.? 

vi. Comment in chat, first day back in that person’s office and it feels great.

vii. Someone else commented masking no longer required, which has received a 

mixed bag of responses and reactions (excitement, fear, confusion, judgment). 

viii. Someone else mentioned they go back next week (with OPM minimum of in 

office 2 day per pay period in person). 

ix. Guy asked people to think about and comment on someone’s thought of what 

we have control over and don’t, requiring people to mask or unable to. 

x. Someone answered that their office is external, so this person doesn’t have the 

issue of what to do about people who don’t want to be masked, but in thinking 

about it this person is remembering a few recent personal situations when they

attendedevents and masking wasn’t mandatory, it was an adjustment for them. 

xi. Comment in the chat, “Few factors that are leaning against coming back to work

(people are not social distancing, inflated gas prices, money wasted on working 

on creating a effective teleworking environment, child care etc) I’m praying we 

don’t have another variant!”

xii. Someone came off mute to share that their office is going to go with how 

people show up to the ombuds office. Won’t require one way or the other. A 

more germane thing to think they can control is how much ombuds coverage is 

needed in the office given the number of people who will actually be reporting 

to the office as opposed to teleworking. Their ombuds office is actually trying to 

find a few days when ombuds “in the office days” can overlap so that they do 

have the chance to see each other in person. 

xiii. Guy asked if externals have thought about this too, and how it might impact 

them and the ways they meet with visitors. 

xiv. An external came off mute to share that a majority of their work was phone 

calls and emails, but times when it was best to meet in person because of 

sensitive topics and confidentiality. Unsure though how many employees will be 

taking advantage of continued telework offerings. If most people don’t go back 

to the office, when this ombuds goes back, she needs to think about how she 

can make those sensitive normally in-person conversations happen again but 

virtually. 
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xv. Someone added that even though that person is an external, that is an 

interesting point for internals too, and wonders about what returning to the 

office means for rank and file coworkers whose interaction face-to-face with 

others, and particularly with ombuds, will be impacted disproportionately by 

continued telework. 

xvi. The external came off mute again and shared that in their experience, they’ve

actually been able to make more of a connection sometimes virtually. They say 

to visitors, “feel free to keep your video off if you are more comfortable with 

that, I just choose to keep mine on.” And they added that it seems like a more 

informal way of communicating, which helps the dialogue. Not sitting there in 

heels and a suit feels more approachable. 

xvii. Someone shared that just yesterday their agency ran a program designed for 

supervisors, but the invite went to all employees. Got a lot of participation, 

some on camera and others not, but a takeaway that large group meetings are 

perhaps best held virtually. 

xviii. Comment from the chat that each agency will likely be slightly different 

depending on leadership priorities, either closely or not as closely adhering to 

Biden’s goal for government to be a model for all other industries. Person also 

mentioned that retirements are apparently way up in their agency, which is 

getting the attention of senior leadership. They also shared that they have seen 

a few situations when people unhappy with performance appraisals are actually 

leaving as opposed to just saying they are going to leave. 

xix. Comment from chat, “in our planning efforts, my agency is encouraging an 

experimental and flexible approach because what we do in weeks 1-3 may be 

very different as we get into months 3-6...”

xx. Someone came off mute to share something that they also shared in the chat, 

“Few factors leading against coming back to work. (people are not social 

distancing, inflated gas prices, money wasted on working on creating an 

effective teleworking environment, child care etc) Im praying we dont have 

another variant!” Verbal comments shared some people’s uneasiness about 

what returning to work in this current environment actually means to different 

aspects of people’s current life situations, work included. 

xxi. Someone found out yesterday that due to changes in the metro route they

would normally take, the only way for them to get to office is to drive. Also 

acknowledged the last person’s concerns about bringing COVID home to elders 

or minors in family. 

xxii. Someone shared related to the immunocompromised, a family member needed 

to go to the emergency room recently, and what this person thinks of after 

going to the hospital is that there are so many mixed messages between health 

care professionals and employers and then everyone’s own personal comfort 

levels. Their takeaway is that we therefore need to be flexible and acknowledge 

people’s own personal comfort levels. 

xxiii. Someone mentioned that they haven’t had anyone complaining that they’ve 

been pressured to mask or unmask, so far things seem pretty calm in the office. 

xxiv. Paul encouraged people to continue raising their personal concerns related to 

this topic on OSO meetings.

b. Paul welcomed people to share topics that are top of their minds, and those can be 

considered for future meeting discussion topics. 
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c. Paul closed with mentioning a lighter note, that a Grizzly Bear Conflict Management position 

was posted recently. Responsible for coordinating conflict management in Montana, Idaho, 

a few other states. Requires a balanced perspective, significant grizzly bear handling 

experience, and strong communication skills. Read aloud other requirements of position and 

mentioned, “All of this sounds familiar.” Ended by saying this was shared with him by a 

fellow COFO ombuds!

 

Attendance 03/09/2022

Last First Agency Call-In

Baker Jason NIH 1

Behr Virginia FDA 1

Bookstein Monique Prince William County Public Schools 1

Brown Andrea United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) 1

Brown Dallas DHS / National Protection and Programs Directorate 1

Cameron Bob CFPB 1

Chavez 

Rudolph Mary DOI 1

Coffman Cherina NGA 1

Davidson Kimberly George Mason University 1

Footman Aaron USPTO 1

Frazier Veronica DOD / DIA 1

Garmon Felisa CFPB 1

Gnatt Sheldon NSA 1

Gordon Laurel DOJ / U. S. Marshals Service (USMS) 1

Green Veronica State OIG 1

Harley Jasmine National Credit Union Administration 1

Hartman Jessie NARA/ Office of Government Information Services (OGIS) 1

Hebron Eric ATF 1

Holland Shavon Dept of Education 1

Hurley Nathan FDA / Center for Tobacco Products 1

Jarrett Syreeta DIA 1

Kelly John SBA 1

Kinnavy Noreen USAGM 1

Lenkel Laurie FDA 1

Levine Lisa DOJ / Executive Office of Immigration Review (EOIR) 1

Lloyd Brenda FLETC 1
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Manzines Rosamaria Prince William County Public Schools 1

Maurer Bill Census 1

McGuire Carrie NARA / OGIS 1

Megee Christine DOD Education Activity 1

Miller Carla DOJ / ATF 1

Milner Heather CFPB 1

Mitchell John DHS 1

Patel Bina USPTO 1

Patno Arielle FDA / Center for Tobacco Products 1

Porch Susanne Commerce / National Institute of Standards and Technology 

(NIST) 1

Rojas Nick DOD / DIA 1

Skodacek Ken FDA 1

Smith Julie Census 1

Smith Tyler NIH 1

Sotoudeh Paul USPTO 1

Stergio Marcus Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs / DOL 1

Swann Benita FDIC 1

Thomson Ronnie Sandia National Laboratories 1

Trujillo Sarah USDA 1

Vermillion Chris DOE 1

Villafane Jacqueline American Red Cross 1

Voloshin Victor NIH 1

Walker Olivia DOD / Army Medical Readiness Assistance Program 1

Weber Guy DOD / NGA 1

White Karen DOD / National Guard Bureau 1

Whittington Fred (Whitt) DOL OIG 1

Wolfe Lexi DOE 1

Yuille Banford Deanna DOD / Defense Human Resources Activity 1

Total 54