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President’s Committee

For People with Intellectual Disabilities (PCPID)

Committee Conference Call

December 12, 2018

Draft Minutes

Citizen Members

Mr. Christopher Glenn Neeley, Chair

Dr. Vijayalakshmi Appareddy 

Mr. Olegario Cantos

Ms. Emily Colson

Ms. Claudia Horn

Ms. Stephanie Hubach

Ms. Annette Liike

Ms. Karen Moderow

Ex-officio Members and Representatives

Bo Tayloe on behalf of Clarette Yen

Representing the Honorable Matthew Whitaker

Acting Attorney General, U.S. Department of Justice

Patrick Manning on behalf of Jennifer Sheehy

Representing the Honorable Alexander Acosta

Secretary, U.S. Department of Labor

Brian Parsons

Representing the Honorable Kirstjen Nielsen

Secretary, U.S. Department of Homeland Security
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Ex-officio Members and Representatives – continued

Elisa Walker

Representing the Honorable Nancy A. Berryhill

Acting Commissioner, U.S. Social Security Administration

Leola Brooks

Representing the Honorable Nancy A. Berryhill

Acting Commissioner, U.S. Social Security Administration

Administration for Community Living (ACL)

Julie Hocker, Commissioner on Disabilities, ACL

Mary Lazare, Principal Deputy Administrator, ACL

Others

Lisa Grubb, National Council on Disability
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The PCPID Conference Call Proceedings

Welcome and Roll Call

Julie Hocker, ACL Commissioner on Disabilities

Christopher Glenn Neeley, PCPID Chair

Call host Julie Hocker, Administration for Community Living’s commissioner on administration 

on disabilities, welcomed everyone to the December 12, 2018 call, noting that the call 

represented the second meeting of the PCPID. She then turned the meeting over to Mr. Neeley,

who conducted roll call.

Opening Remarks

Christopher Glenn Neeley, PCPID Chair

Julie Hocker, ACL

Mr. Neeley referenced the open and good discussion that took place at the committee’s last 

meeting in Washington about issues surrounding employment of people with intellectual (ID). 

He pointed out that despite today’s strong economy, 80% of people with intellectual disabilities 

still do not have opportunities for meaningful and inclusive work.

He noted the purpose of today’s meeting is to: 

1. Have further discussion about employment issues for people with ID and determine the 

top three issues the committee should focus on for next year’s report to the president

2. Form three breakout groups, which will hone-in on these three issues 

3. Discuss a timeline

He then turned the meeting back to Ms. Hocker, who reiterated ACL’s support of the group, 

including providing the necessary staffing. She also said she is working with the White House 

leads at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to identify new committee members. 

She requested that if anyone had recommendations to send names directly to her. She then turned 

the meeting back to Mr. Neeley.

Mr. Neeley called on ex-officio members to provide agency updates.

Ex-officio Updates

Bo Tayloe, covering for Clarette Yen, U.S. Department of Justice

Mr. Tayloe provided two examples of programs he said have made a difference in the lives of

people with ID in the workplace.

In Providence, Rhode Island, youth with intellectual disabilities who were not participating in 

school were removed to work in “kind of a road assembly project.” The projects were intended 

to serve as a training program designed to advance youth with ID from basic, rudimentary tasks 

to more sophisticated work. The program, however, was not successful, so DOJ reached an 

agreement with the state and the city to restructure the program, allowing youth to continue to 

get an education and develop meaningful opportunities for work. The result is that many youth 

are now employed, working 40 hours a week, paying taxes, and are more engaged.
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In another example, DOJ has an agreement with the Commonwealth of Virginia that covers a 

variety of topics related to individuals with ID, including employment. Data shows the 

Commonwealth is making “phenomenal progress” in increasing the number of people of all ages 

who are in supportive employment. He noted that Virginia has discovered there’s a lot that can 

be done to move people with ID from day programming, where they don’t have the opportunity 

to work and earn money, into supportive employment where they are in the community and 

making money. The Commonwealth is in the process of developing benchmarks and goals.

Mr. Neeley requested that Mr. Tayloe provide the committee with data and reports for both 

programs, to which Mr. Tayloe agreed.

There was also discussion around wages. Mr. Tayloe said that based on his understanding the 

agreement with Rhode Island sets out benchmarks for a certain number of hours at minimum 

wage or higher. The Virginia agreement, because it is a broader agreement, is less clear about 

wages. While the goal is to employ people at minimum wage, his understanding is that the goal

is not being met.

Mr. Neeley opened the floor to questions from the committee.

Karen Moderow asked what the motivator was for states that are implementing more progressive 

policies.

Mr. Tayloe said he can only speak based on hearsay, noting he’s heard from state officials that 

the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (WIOA) has been a real motivator. There’s also 

the recognition it is possible — when done correctly — to achieve employment for many people 

with ID. He also acknowledged economic factors likely are involved, pointing out that when you 

move people into supportive employment, while they may still need state services, they need 

fewer services.

Mr. Manning said he is a native of Rhode Island and thinks the motivator was a DOJ settlement. 

Because of that settlement, he believes many organizations have become more proactive and 

progressive.

Mr. Tayloe said it was a combined effort. He said DOL had concerns around some of the 

sheltered workshops and wanted to take enforcement action. DOJ was able to come up with an 

agreement that would ensure people had an alternative if the workshop was fined and no longer 

in operation.

Ms. Horn wanted to know what percentage of those individuals who are in facility-based 

programs transition into supportive employment.

Mr. Tayloe said those numbers exist, but that he does not have them. He will share with the 

group whatever information is out there in the public domain regarding Rhode Island.

Patrick Manning, U.S. Department of Labor

Much of the work DOL does for people with ID, he said, is grounded in the “employment first” 

philosophy, a national grassroots movement centered on the premise that everyone, including 

people with significant disabilities, is capable of full participation in integrated employment and 
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community life. He said that the Office of Disability Employment Policy (ODEP) provides 

technical assistance to 13 states and serves more than 2,600 subscribers from all 50 states 

through its national employment first community of practice.

He also talked about DOL’s LEAD center — the National Center on Leadership for the 

Employment and Economic Advancement of People with Disabilities — which has tools and 

strategies to help people with ID. For example, the LEAD center website has information on 

Guided Group Discovery (GGD), a set of assessments in job matching strategies. GGD can be 

used in American Job Centers (AJCs), rehabilitation providers, and schools to help youth and 

adults with disabilities secure and maintain employment.

ODEP also manages the DRIVE website, drivedisabilityemployment.org, which stands for Data 

and Resources to Inspire a Vision of Employment. The website is a resource for national and 

state data points and initiatives.

He said they work with the Employment and Training Administration at DOL to support AJCs to 

become more physically and programmatically accessible for people with disabilities.

He spoke about work on issues facing youth with disabilities, including exploring inclusive 

community colleges and apprenticeships, noting they approach all of their youth-related work 

through a policy framework known as “Guide Posts for Success.”

JAN, the Job Accommodation Network, is leading source for guidance on workplace 

accommodations for all people with disabilities, not just those with ID. He pointed out that it’s 

not just a website — www.askjan.org — but it’s an organization DOL funds that helps people 

nationwide. It provides guidance to employers, individuals, and service providers. He said it is a 

great resource to help figure out what accommodations someone might need to be successful in 

their current job as well as to grow professionally.

Brian Parsons, U.S. Department of Homeland Security

He said the department is mindful of federal incentives, executive orders, and the various 

policies focused on increasing the number of people with disabilities in the federal workforce. 

He said his agency is committed to looking at creative opportunities for employing people with 

ID, which includes looking at “nontraditional or nonhistorical” categorization where people with 

ID could be productive contributors to the department’s mission.

Elisa Walker, U.S. Social Security Administration

She said people with ID make up about 14% of all working age recipients of SSA’s disability 

programs. SSA provides a variety of different work incentives and employment supports 

designed specifically to encourage and support work, noting the best incentive is the ticket to 

work program. SSA also has other payments to vocational rehabilitation agencies when they 

serve as beneficiaries. She also talked about resources available to the public, such as the Red 

Book, which is a comprehensive guide to employment supports, and the Choose Work website 

for the ticket to work program.

She acknowledged that most beneficiaries are not aware of the ticket to work or other incentives. 

Despite this, a recent study of SSA’s payment to VR agencies found that even though few 
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beneficiaries use SSA’s employment supports providing these supports can still be cost effective 

given the cumulative value of cash benefits that can be foregone for work for those people who 

are able to work with supports.

She also talked about the “cash cliff” beneficiaries face when they work. SSA is looking at what 

can be done to offset that. One is called BOND. She said that a webinar on the results of that 

demonstration is taking place later today and she would send around the link to anyone who is 

interested.

SSA is also committed to supporting youth transitions and is partnering with the Department of 

Education on PROMISE, a project that tests ways to improve outcomes for youth receiving SSI 

and their families. Referencing the earlier discussion around motivating factors, she said that 

sometimes the motivating factor can be federal grants that encourage testing or developing new 

programs.

Open-Forum Discussion

Being that there were no more ex-officio updates, Mr. Neeley opened up the floor for committee 

discussion about what specific issues should be included in the committee’s report to the 

president.

Ms. Liike felt education should be an area of focus, specifically as it relates to improving the 

outcomes, training, and support for people with IDD, so they are successful in their work 

environment.

Ms. Hubach asked whether the group was going to take a broad view of education or focus on a

particular age group. She said based on personal experience with her son that a paid work 

experience prior to graduation is a key indicator of success in post-graduation employment.

Ms. Horn inquired about whether it would be helpful to look at the role of post-secondary 

opportunities for students with ID and their effectiveness in helping those individuals to obtain 

gainful employment. She said she was in favor of making apprenticeship programs more widely 

available and asked how that fits in with the post-secondary scheme of things.

Mr. Neeley noted that the apprenticeship concept could be part of the job training opportunities. 

He pointed out that Goodwill organizations around the country are looking at creating charter 

schools for adults who are no longer covered under IDEA. Mr. Neeley asked whether the 

committee wants job training/apprenticeships to fall under education or whether it should be a

second issue.

Ms. Lazare said one of the issues discussed at the first meeting was that companies are fearful of 

hiring and being able to accommodate people with disabilities, particularly those with ID. She 

wanted to know if any ex-officio members have programs to educate the workforce in terms of 

helping them understand people with intellectual disabilities.

Regarding apprenticeships and training programs, she said ACL is part of a task force comprised 

of several federal agencies. She said that when an executive order that focused on 

apprenticeships and training programs was signed in 2017, ACL reached out to the committee 
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that was being stood up to ask them to include people with disabilities. She said the task force is 

connecting with the American Workforce committee and will be focusing on people with both 

physical and intellectual disabilities.

Ms. Moderow said she would like to see the group focus on connecting with employers because 

she felt that was the one issue that was not being addressed in a significant way, saying that if 

there are not jobs for people with ID, there’s nothing to be training for.

Mr. Neeley summed up the group discussion: the need for education – K through 12 and post 

IDEA – and the need to educate employers and employees who are working with people who 

have ID.

Ms. Colson agreed the need is twofold. She talked about a required training program 

Massachusetts General Hospital has that teaches every employee about dealing with people who 

have autism. She said it opens people’s eyes of who someone is, what their potential is, and how 

this is good for business. When it comes to the content of the committee’s report, she said the 

group should keep in mind how to capture the attention of our current president who she said 

understands the value of apprenticeships.

Ms. Hubach asked the group: What if we focused on apprenticeships as a vehicle to improve 

employment outcomes for people with ID? She talked about the supply and demand sides of the 

market and what she termed the “soft skill intersection” between the two, noting that what we’re

trying to do is bridge these societal and relational barriers and perception barriers that have 

existed for generations. In other words, how do you help people with ID develop the soft skills 

they need to succeed at work and how do you help businesses develop the soft skills to be more 

welcoming to people with disabilities and better understand of this segment of the population.

Mr. Neeley said that Ollie was on the call but unable to chime in so he was passing along Ollie’s 

input. Ollie thinks there are four components: 1) an education piece for people with ID and the 

transition that comes with that; 2) internship/apprenticeship/job training; 3) the employer piece; 

and 4) transportation, which he pointed out falls under all these issues, because without 

transportation an individual can’t get to an apprenticeship or to a job.

Dr. Appareddy cautioned the group to not forget about families who have limited resources, 

saying that problems start from daycare onward. She also thinks the conversation should be 

expanded to include an individual’s mental and physical health, which has an impact at every 

stage.

Ms. Horn said it is important to look at the characteristics of people who are getting positive 

outcomes as well as the characteristics of those who are not doing as well and what can be done 

to improve their outcomes.

Mr. Neeley requested that ACL help identify some resources within the federal government that 

can help answer those questions.

Mr. Neeley outlined a timeline for the group:
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 January: Teams to meet via conference call; a consultant will work with each team on the 

research and putting together recommendations 

 February: Teams to report to the full committee

 March: In-person meeting to review a report to include the three team reports

 April: Edit report

 May: Finalize report

 June: Submit report to Secretary Azar

 End of summer: Submit report to the White House

Ms. Horn asked what is it that we want to inform the president about. Highlight a particular 

program? Suggest a strategy for doing something? Propose further research or investigation into 

another issue?

Mr. Neeley said these questions need to be answered by each team.

Ms. Horn requested agreement from the group about whether the committee is going to be 

general or specific in its focus.

Ms. Hubach commented, that to be effective, the group needs to be specific because there are 

already so many areas in the government where things are being done around labor and 

disabilities.

After some back and forth discussion, the group agreed to focus on apprenticeships/job training 

and then break out in committees and determine what the one issue should be. 

Mr. Tayloe said based on his department’s experience if you create a mechanism that is linear —

one that says for a person to get from where they are to where they want to be, you must go 

through certain steps — that it will not be effective. Instead, a more effective model, he said, is 

to move someone as directly as possible without setting up interim steps. While he said he liked 

the idea of an apprenticeship, he cautioned that if the model is seen an interim step, people will 

get stuck in the apprenticeship phase.

Dr. Appareddy asked the group to consider the topic of “supported employment,” which would 

cover not only apprenticeships but also job coaching, customized employment, and other types 

of support that could move people directly into employment.

Mr. Manning said the term DOL uses is “competitive integrated employment.” He said it’s 

competitive because it’s a real job; it’s integrated because it is for everyone, not just those with 

IDD; and it’s an actual job, not an internship, that pays minimum wage or higher. He also 

seconded Mr. Tayloe’s concern about ensuring people don’t get stuck in an apprenticeship.

Ms. Hubach suggested the term “entry-level facilitation.” She pointed out that regardless of 

whether the transition occurs when a teenager graduates from school or an adult is transitioning 

from a sheltered workshop or apprenticeship, the goal is to move that individual into an entrylevel job.
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Ms. Liike raised the issue of how we transition people into entry-level work without training and 

education.

After further discussion, it was decided that “competitive integrated employment opportunities” 

would be the topic of focus and volunteers will be solicited to serve on topic committees.

Closing Remarks

PCPID Chair

ACL

Mr. Neeley asked members to let Ms. Hocker and him know what they would like to focus on so 

three or four teams can be developed. Mr. Neeley will begin coordinating team calls after the 

holidays and provide a framework for the group to follow to ensure everyone is on same page.

Mr. Neeley will also share with the committee data and reports he/she receives from the National 

Council on Disability, DOL, and DOJ.

Ms. Hocker requested that each subcommittee report back on their January calls so the public is 

kept informed about the work happening at the subcommittee level.

Meeting Adjourned

Mr. Neeley thanked everyone for the contributions made today and concluded the call.