U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

32–452 PDF WASHINGTON : 2019

S. Hrg. 115–442 

FEMA: PRIORITIZING A CULTURE OF 

PREPAREDNESS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

APRIL 11, 2018 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin, Chairman 

JOHN MCAIN, Arizona 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

STEVE DAINES, Montana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

JON TESTER, Montana 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire 

KAMALA D. HARRIS, California 

CHRISTOPHER R. HIXON, Staff Director 

GABRIELLE D’ADAMO SINGER, Chief Counsel 

MICHAEL J. LUEPTOW, Chief Counsel for Homeland Security 

M. SCOTT AUSTIN, U.S. Coast Guard Detailee 

BARRETT F. PERCIVAL, Staff Assistant 

MARGARET E. DAUM, Minority Staff Director 

PHYLICIA L. WOODS, Minority Counsel 

CLAUDINE J. BRENNER, Minority Counsel 

JOEL F. WALSH, Minority Professional Staff Member 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

BONNI E. DINERSTEIN, Hearing Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 1 

Senator McCaskill ............................................................................................ 2 

Senator Peters .................................................................................................. 11 

Senator Harris .................................................................................................. 14 

Senator Heitkamp ............................................................................................ 17 

Senator Lankford .............................................................................................. 19 

Senator Hassan ................................................................................................. 23 

Senator Daines ................................................................................................. 26 

Senator Jones .................................................................................................... 28 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 33 

Senator McCaskill ............................................................................................ 34 

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 31, 2017 

Honorable William B. ‘‘Brock’’ Long, Administrator, Federal Emergency Management Agency, U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 39 

APPENDIX 

Chart referenced by Senator Johnson .................................................................... 46 

Document submitted by Senator Harris ................................................................ 47 

Statements submitted for the Record: 

International Association of Emergency Managers, National Association 

of Counties and National Emergency Management Association .............. 54 

National Governors Association ...................................................................... 59 

Oxfam America ................................................................................................. 64 

America Red Cross ........................................................................................... 72 

Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record: 

Mr. Long ............................................................................................................ 77 

(1) 

1The prepared statement of Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 33. 

FEMA: PRIORITIZING A CULTURE OF 

PREPAREDNESS 

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 2018 

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ron Johnson, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Johnson, Lankford, Daines, McCaskill, 

Heitkamp, Peters, Hassan, Harris, and Jones. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHNSON 

Chairman JOHNSON. Good morning. The hearing will come to 

order. I can see that most of our available audience must be over 

on the House side with Mr. Zuckerberg. But I certainly want to 

welcome Administrator Brock Long from the Federal Emergency 

Management Agency (FEMA). 

I ask unanimous consent that my written statement be entered 

in the record,1 and I will just have a couple opening comments 

here. 

First of all, I think it is without a doubt, particularly when you 

take a look at the massive problem you had to deal with, within 

days of being confirmed, with three hurricanes and the wildfires 

out in California, there has been some pretty dramatic improvement made, continuous improvement within FEMA’s administration of and handling of these disasters since Hurricane Katrina. I 

think that is a very good thing. 

But there is no doubt about that you never achieve perfection, 

and there is always opportunity for additional continuous improvement, and that is really what this hearing is all about. Take a look 

at what could have been improved upon and what do we need to 

do moving forward. And I know Administrator Brock Long will talk 

about his Strategic Plan for FEMA, and we will talk about a number of things. 

I notice in your Strategic Plan kind of a watch word is disasters 

should be federally supported, State managed, locally executed. 

And I guess the only bone I would pick with that is I would change 

the order of that, and I would say State managed, locally executed, 

federally supported. And the reason I point that out is, if we can 
2 

1The chart referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 46. 

2The prepared statement of Senator McCaskill appears in the Appendix on page 34. 

put up our chart,1 when you take a look at the number of Federal 

disaster declarations over almost—well, we are not quite a century 

yet, but over the last 70 years or so, there has just been a dramatic 

increase over the last three or four decades. 

It is interesting to note that the high-water marks are the year 

before a Presidential reelection—I do not know if there is any correlation there or not, but, again, it has just been a dramatic 

increase, and my concern—and I think it is a legitimate concern— 

is that as local and State governments look to the Federal Government to come in—and, of course, the Federal Government has to 

when we have these massive disasters. But if State and local governments rely on FEMA time after time, if they get addicted to 

FEMA, they are going to be less inclined to really produce that culture of emergency preparedness that you are talking about in your 

Strategic Plan. 

So I would like you to address a little bit that potential moral 

hazard in FEMA doing an even better and better job. We want you 

to do a better and better job, but what we really want is we want 

State and local governments to be completely prepared so that it 

really can be State managed, locally executed, federally supported. 

And with that, I will turn it over to my Ranking Member, Senator McCaskill. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCASKILL2

Senator MCCASKILL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 

Mr. Long, for being here today. I, too, want to start with a positive 

and recognize the progress that has been made since Hurricane 

Katrina. I think we have all witnessed a much more efficient and 

a much more effective FEMA from the lessons learned from Hurricane Katrina and other catastrophes. 

However, I cannot get through this hearing, as you might well 

imagine, without talking about some of the problems that we continue to see, especially on contracting. 

I am sure you are familiar with the report that we issued this 

week or last week on emergency tarps and sheeting contracts. It 

was really problematic. FEMA approved this contract without vetting, $73 million to two contractors with no relevant past performance, one of which had only existed for 2 months, did not take appropriate steps to assess the capabilities, and ultimately had to 

cancel contracts with both companies due to their failure to deliver. 

That is not the only serious contracting problem we had in the 

aftermath of our hurricanes last hurricane season: a $156 million 

contract to deliver meals to the people of Puerto Rico. FEMA contracted with a company in Atlanta that had one full-time employee 

and a history of contract cancellations. All someone would have had 

to do is check and do just some basic due diligence to see that this 

company had had serious contracting issues with the Federal Government in the past. And I do not know how you give a $156 million contract to a company that has one employee. I do not know 

how that happens. Obviously, that contract also had to be cancelled, all of these contracts were still at a cost to the Federal Gov-
3 

ernment and, obviously, a painful cost to the people who needed 

tarps and needed meals. 

We have already had tornadoes in southeast Missouri this year. 

We have extensive flooding in Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin, and 

our hurricane season begins in 2 months. I would love to spend 

some time talking about what steps you have taken, particularly 

on the contracting front. And I think we have to obviously now expect that you might get slammed with three hurricanes, because 

you all were dealing with Texas, Florida, and Puerto Rico simultaneously. And I understand the stress that puts on the contracting 

system, but you have to prepare for that. That is what this is all 

about. We now know that that very easily could happen, and clearly we have to anticipate it. 

I also would like you to address the 2019 budget proposal that 

the President put forward in February. The proposed budget was 

stunning to me. The President wanted to cut funding for counterterrorism grants; he wanted to eliminate training and exercise programs that give State and local emergency responders the skills 

they need for natural disasters. It would slash the pre-disaster 

mitigation grants and Federal flood mapping programs that obviously are very important for our preparation for future natural disasters. It does not build the culture of preparedness that I know 

you embrace, and I want to have a frank discussion about how we 

move forward. 

Obviously, I do want to end my opening comments by complimenting the Federal workforce and the National Guard who appropriately are always on the front line for natural disaster response. 

And I know how proud I am of Missouri’s National Guard and the 

work they do and the training that they have to deal with natural 

disasters. I hope, especially as we get into the hurricane season 

and get into the tornado season, that they are not in any way depleted in terms of their ability to respond to these natural disasters 

because of a political pulling to the border. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. It is the tradition of this Committee to 

swear in witnesses, so if you will stand and raise your right hand. 

Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 

truth, so help you, God? 

Mr. LONG. I do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Please be seated. 

Senator McCaskill did beat me to the punch in wanting to extend 

this Committee’s gratitude to the entire Federal workforce. I would 

love to have you kind of mention a little bit about that in your 

opening statement as well, the Operations Center. It was not just 

FEMA employees or the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) 

employees. These were individuals from around the Federal Government, different agencies that came and manned that Operations 

Center 24/7 for a couple of months at least. So if you can mention 

that, I would appreciate that. 

But we also want to thank you for your service. You started and 

you were hit with something that this Nation quite honestly has 

never seen in terms of disaster management, so we want to thank 

you for that. 
4 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Long appears in the Appendix on page 39. 

Our witness is the Honorable Brock Long, who is the Administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In his role 

he leads FEMA’s workforce to fulfill its mission in responding to 

natural disasters and emergencies facing the United States, including in 2017 Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, and Maria, and the California wildfires. Administrator Long. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE WILLIAM ‘‘BROCK’’ LONG,1

ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT 

AGENCY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. LONG. Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member McCaskill, and 

Senator Peters, thank you so much for allowing me to be here 

today. I guess this marks the fifth time I have been before Congress in 9 months since coming on board, and I want to stop and 

thank you as well, because as you alluded to, Chairman, emergency 

management and disaster response and recovery requires the 

whole community. It requires all of us being unified, and for us to 

get better to ultimately build a more resilient and prepared Nation, 

it requires me communicating to you about our needs and the Congress acting, as you have, and I appreciate it. 

Thank you for the three supplementals, and not only the three 

supplementals, but specifically the authorities that were provided 

to FEMA in and around the challenges that we faced with the deferred maintenance issues in Puerto Rico. They are much needed 

to be able to build a stronger, more resilient Puerto Rico going forward. And I look forward to continuing to ask you for your support 

on several different authorities that I believe we need as a Nation 

to push forward and make a better-prepared Nation. 

To wrap the magnitude and to put the numbers around the magnitude of what we went through, we estimate now that about 47 

million Americans, or 15 percent of the population, were in some 

way, shape, or form impacted by the events from just Hurricanes 

Harvey, Irma, and Maria and the California wildfires. 

We have registered approximately 4.8 million just under 5 million people in our individual assistance system to kick-start recovery. We cannot make people whole, but just to kick-start it. But to 

put that into context, more than half of the survivors that FEMA 

has registered over the past 10 years were put into our system 

within the last 9 months. That is an extraordinary number. And, 

again, all of these numbers are moving targets because we are putting more and more down every day and putting more and more 

people in different places. But as of April 10, FEMA has provided 

approximately $22 billion just to three hurricanes and the California wildfires down to those who were impacted; $11 billion of 

that has gone to the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico alone. 

In addition, I appreciate the thanks toward my staff. These men 

and women do not get credit for what they do. They are working 

disasters in 35 States and territories this year. Thirty-five. They 

work around the clock. They sacrifice their personal lives to take 

care of others. It is an honor to lead these people every day. 

Major lessons learned. Survivable and redundant communications is something that we have to tackle with the private vendors. 
5 

We cannot lose communications. Forget interoperability. We have 

to have the ability to operate and communicate. And we lost that. 

We need all-hazards communications capabilities. We have got to 

streamline a very fragmented recovery process. As I have said, recovery funding comes from 17 different Federal Government agencies, and it is too difficult to understand what you are entitled to 

and how to put it to work. 

I need greater granting authority. I want to hit the reset button 

on disaster housing. I need greater granting authority. It is not the 

Federal Housing Management Agency. It is not the Federal Electricity Management Agency. I need greater granting authority to do 

housing more effectively and efficiently and to allow Governors 

greater ability to control their own destiny. 

Of course, training emergency managers all over the country at 

all levels is the most important thing that we need. Nothing is 

more important than the well-trained emergency manager. 

We need to increase State management costs to allow them to be 

able to hire force account labor or consulting firms to augment 

their staff as well, which would require some legislative changes. 

And, obviously, it is a no-brainer: More investment in pre-disaster 

mitigation rather than doing it after the fact is ultimately going to 

reduce disaster costs. But I also have some other ideas that we can 

change about why we repair public facilities that could be covered 

by private insurance. If you want to reduce disaster costs, maybe 

we should look at things like that. 

Going forward, yes, we have put forward a new Strategic Plan 

that I am not only asking just my staff to embrace, but I am asking 

the whole community and all of you to embrace. We took 2,300 

comments from our constituents. We are taking lessons learned 

from 2017. We do a trend analysis. We arrive at three major goals 

that are supported by four subset goals: 

Build a true culture of preparedness, which we do not have. We 

have to increase the access to tangible training to our citizens for 

doing Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR). One in four of us is 

going to do CPR in our lifetime, according to the Red Cross. We 

have to financially get them ready. Asset poverty is getting in the 

way, which is increasing the need for individual assistance on 

FEMA’s back end. Too many people are letting mortgages lapse, as 

we saw in the California wildfires, to have extra money in their retirement. So, therefore, it puts more drain on FEMA on the individual assistance side. So we have to cover the insurance gaps. Insurance is the first line of defense, not FEMA assistance. We have 

to incentivize pre-disaster mitigation. The key to resiliency is at 

the local level—land-use planning, building codes—and we should 

incentivize that as a country to make sure that local leaders are 

doing that. FEMA cannot create a resilient community on its own. 

Goal 2, ready the Nation for catastrophic disasters. I do not believe we are ready to go for the low-to no-notice events, the catastrophic earthquake in California or the New Madrid, because 

there is too much of a gap on depending on FEMA to do things 

such as life-saving, life-sustaining commodities. 

Ranking Member, in your report it correctly points out we have 

to do more pre-event contracts, but not just at FEMA. We need 

those at the State and local level. We need to make sure that State 
6 

leaders and local leaders are putting pre-event contracts in place 

that I would happily reimburse once they activate to do their own 

level of food, water, hygiene kits, and the things that they need, 

because if we have a no-notice event, like a New Madrid or a 

Cascadia or a large earthquake in California, it is going to take 

some time for us to be able to mobilize our forces to get there, if 

we can even get in. 

Goal 3, reduce the complexity of FEMA. I am my own worst critic 

and I am the agency’s worst critic when it comes to doing things 

better. There are policies that we can streamline. But we have to 

streamline specifically the disaster survivor experience. We have to 

streamline the grantee experience. I am empowering my staff to 

help me, and my constituents, to help me understand where to 

make those changes. We had to perform 2.4 million home inspections this year, physically deploy people to look at almost 2.5 million homes. That is an arduous bureaucratic process when we have 

technology that can say, yes, it is damaged. It puts me in a tough 

spot because we have to protect the taxpaying dollar against fraud, 

but we also have to move at lightning speed. 

Finally, in closing, there is a misunderstanding that recovery has 

not started in Puerto Rico. That is not the case. I was in Puerto 

Rico last week. I met with the Governor as well as my staff. We 

are pushing forward on 428. We have signed an agreement, the 

guidelines to move forward to do large-scale, sector-based, resilient 

work. The Section 428 will force us all to think what is the recovery outcome that we are all striving for so that we can put taxpaying money against that to strive for a collective vision to ultimately make sure that we do not walk through this whole situation 

again when hurricanes are obviously going to hit in the future. 

I look forward to the dialogue today and the constant improvement. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Administrator Long. 

I will be brief and turn it over to questions, but I did want you 

to detail a little bit more the 428 authority and how important that 

is, rather than, thousands of individual grants, create a larger 

grant bucket so, again, you are streamlining that possibility or the 

approval for those types of things. So just spend a little bit more 

time talking about that, if you would. 

Mr. LONG. So the 428 program allows for more alternative procedures. It makes no sense in this country if we put taxpaying dollars 

to say let us fix the jurisdiction back to the pre-disaster condition, 

only to go through this again and again and again. 

The other thing is that 428 is the way that business is done in 

America every day. If I give you a budget and tell you to reach X 

amount of milestones, you have to reach those milestones against 

that budget so that we are calculated on how we move forward and 

push forward. And then if you manage it well, for example, if 428 

is managed well in Puerto Rico, then what is left over in that budget they can keep to do other things like pre-disaster mitigation, so 

there is incentive built in. 

The old way of doing business, for example, there were thousands of roadway breaches into the system, thousands of issues in 

the water system, thousands of problems with the schools, many 

problems in the hospital system. Instead of writing a single project 
7 

work sheet to fix this roadway breach and that roadway breach, 

that can be re-versioned for the next 10 or 15 years, over and over 

and over again, this says let us do one project work sheet to fix the 

infrastructure called ‘‘roads’’ or the infrastructure called ‘‘schools,’’ 

the infrastructure called ‘‘hospitals,’’ and we collectively push forward. 

Chairman JOHNSON. So spend a little bit more time explaining 

how the law in certainly the past and maybe currently requires 

FEMA just to rebuild, I mean kind of full replacement as opposed 

to, no, let us be smart about this, let us build something that is 

far more resilient to newer standards. Just talk a little bit about 

your constraints that still exist. 

Mr. LONG. Right. So take the power grid, for example. The power 

grid on Puerto Rico is one of the oldest on the globe, so it is nearly 

four decades old. There are serious problems when it comes to just 

power generation in general and the way that it is done. So the 

emergency process that we go through to make sure that people 

can have power is the emergency process of just getting the lights 

back on. The 428 process, for example, is going to allow the Commonwealth, if they so choose and as we are pushing, to do things 

such as replace wooden poles with composite poles that will be 

there for much longer and harder to blow down in the future or 

they are wind resistant. It is making improvements and changes 

through alternative procedures to better the system. 

I look at 428—and, also, I met with Governor Mapp from the 

U.S. Virgin Islands (USVI) yesterday. This is the way forward. 

This is the way forward to build resilience which will ultimately 

bolster their economic capabilities so that they do not have gaps 

when they lose hotels and roadway systems and power systems 

that are not consistent. 

Chairman JOHNSON. But I get the sense 428 is an exception to 

the rule, and the rule is rebuild to what it was. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Which is somewhat insane from my standpoint. How much of what FEMA is rebuilding is done just as a 

complete replacement versus upgrading the standard? 

Mr. LONG. Well, under the emergency work, it is a fraction of 

what needs to be done on the permanent side, and I think that we 

have to remember that you do not just build—I mean, just expanding a lane out here in D.C. on a major highway takes years. We 

are talking about a lot of work ahead of us and some of the first 

initial estimates for just Puerto Rico, for example—and here again, 

these numbers will change as we start to dig in—is anywhere between $40 and $50 billion when we encroach on this. I think it is 

important, Chairman, that 428 is not a new program. It is just that 

we have not educated Governors and emergency managers on how 

this process works. There are projects that were being used in Louisiana as a result of the flooding. It was used in Hurricane Sandy. 

The greatest concern that the Governors have is hopefully we hit 

that estimate right on the first go-around when we enter into the 

agreement to fix the hospitals and the schools and the way forward. It is a much more efficient process that allows for mitigation 

to be incorporated in as we go forward. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. Well, thank you. Senator McCaskill. 
8 

Senator MCCASKILL. So should we require Puerto Rico to put up 

the composite poles with the money we give them? 

Mr. LONG. That is a question for the legislature. I do not have 

the authority to require a Governor to do anything when it comes 

to being resilient. 

Senator MCCASKILL. It just seems weird to me because the Governors, I mean, there is way too much thought around this place 

and around everybody in elective office that they are just worrying 

about the next election cycle and maybe not enough concern about 

long term. It just seems to me—I am not big on the Federal Government dictating to localities, but if it is Federal money and we 

are the ones that are going to be on the hook for more Federal 

money if they put back up the wooden poles that blow over again, 

that seems that we ought to incentivize it maybe that you get 10 

percent more if you show resiliency in your plans. Maybe we do 

this with the carrot, not the stick. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator MCCASKILL. And maybe that would be easier on the 

whole friction between local control and Federal control. I just 

throw that out there. 

The contracting thing, I am not going to put you through the 

painful process of acknowledging how bad these contracts were. I 

think you know how bad they were, particularly Tribute’s contract 

proposal. I do not know if you have had a chance to read it. 

Mr. LONG. No, ma’am, but what I can say on the contracts—and 

I realize we have work here again. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Pretty obvious. 

Mr. LONG. I was in office 2 months before Hurricane Harvey hit, 

but the facts are we had 59 pre-event contracts in place before 

Hurricane Harvey hit, as I understand it, and that is based on a 

historical need over the past 10 years or so. Obviously, it was not 

enough going into what we saw. We let an additional 1,973 contracts after Hurricane Harvey hit. So out of that 1,973 contracts, 

only 3 that I am aware of were canceled. OK? 

Senator MCCASKILL. That is just not true. Your folks are giving 

you the wrong numbers. There were at least 14 that were canceled. 

Mr. LONG. OK. Well, I will have to—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. The three that you know about it are the 

three that were so egregious, they made the press. 

Mr. LONG. OK. 

Senator MCCASKILL. But you need your staff to do a better job 

because I know you testified to that previously. The records show 

that at least 14 hurricane response contracts were canceled, and, 

frankly, at least 7 of those cancellations appear to be due to the 

vendor’s failure to be able to meet the requirements. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. Well, there is one problem across the Federal 

Government—— 

Senator MCCASKILL. And, by the way, how many they were does 

not necessarily show how impactful they were. Obviously, it was 30 

million meals that were supposed to be delivered—30 million 

meals—and they had delivered 50,000 before everybody figured out 

it was a joke. 

Mr. LONG. So here again we try to build in redundancy and resiliency into our contracting, so we do not rely on one contractor. For 
9 

example, Bronze Star had two contracts. One of them was for blue 

tarps. I think the other one was plastic sheeting. We canceled that. 

Not one dollar of taxpaying money went to those contracts. But we 

also had four or five other vendors that were providing blue 

tarps, and at the end of the day, these were backfilling—we prestaged—we tried to get as much on the island as possible, then 

keep backfilling the logistics pipeline. So there was never a stopgap on blue sheeting or tarp or food. The thing about food was it 

was not that we could not get food to the island. We actually purchased around, I think it was, $2 billion worth of commodities 

which would rank as one of FEMA’s most expensive disasters in 

history alone, just commodities getting to Puerto Rico. It was messaging because the communications system was put down. 

One of the things that I want to make sure that everybody is 

aware of is that Tribute had problems in the Legislative Branch of 

government, and it was never put on our radar screen to be able 

to see it in the Executive Branch. So the systems that we use to 

initially—so they did work for the Government Publishing Office 

(GPO). Well, the GPO sends out an alert under the Legislative 

Branch, but it does not translate to the Executive Branch. So apparently the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches are 

using different systems to say, ‘‘Stay away.’’ Had that translated to 

the Executive Branch, we would have seen it and never even 

thought twice about touching it. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Yes, I think there were contracts canceled 

that were in the Executive Branch by this company. We do not do 

that much contracting in the Legislative Branch. The contracting 

is, by and large, all done in the Executive Branch. So I am not saying that the databases are perfect. I am not saying—but I am saying that some due diligence and common sense beyond just checking three databases for a red flag is going to be required here. 

The reason I asked you if you read the Tribute contract proposal 

is because I think if you read it, you will be startled. It reads like 

an Internet scam. 

Mr. LONG. OK. 

Senator MCCASKILL. You should take the time, honestly, Administrator, to read that contract proposal, because I think when you 

do, your common sense, you would just go, ‘‘Wait a minute. This 

does not even look real.’’ 

Mr. LONG. Sure, so fair enough. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Let us talk about the tarps. We looked at 

your pre-positioned contracts on tarps, and obviously you know you 

are going to need sheeting and tarps in any kind of hurricane disaster. So we looked at your pre-positioned contracts, and we looked 

at the contracts that were issued after all the 2017 hurricanes, and 

only 3.5 percent of the total amount awarded for tarps and sheeting went to pre-positioned contracts. So I think this is something 

you have to drill down on. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Because, clearly, we are not using—in this 

instance the pre-positioned contracts were not even being used. 

And, second, clearly we did not have enough pre-positioned contracts to deal with the kinds of challenges that you were facing. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 
10 

Senator MCCASKILL. So do you have any answer as to why only 

3 percent of the pre-positioned contracts would have been used on 

tarps and sheeting, how we would have been in a position to hire 

somebody who clearly had been in existence for 2 months? 

Mr. LONG. So, listen, I agree. The bottom line is we can always 

get better on the pre-positioned contracting, but it is not solely the 

responsibility of FEMA. This has to be the responsibility of State 

agencies as well as local emergency management, which is something that we are pushing FEMA integration teams out, I am getting my people out of my regional offices and out of headquarters. 

I want to embed them on a permanent basis with our State agencies to start setting up their own contracts. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Can we do something to help that? Can we 

begin to make a requirement—for example, we do a lot of grants 

to States for emergency preparedness. Can we make a condition of 

those grants that they pre-position contracts for disaster for things 

like sheeting, tarps, food, water? 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Senator MCCASKILL. I do not think that needs legislation, does 

it? 

Mr. LONG. I am all for incentivizing good behavior like pre-disaster mitigation, land-use planning, building codes, putting forward 

contracts. Some States have it. Too many of them do not. We have 

to push forward on how we get them to set up and exactly what 

they need. 

What we also experienced in 2017 was a drain on resources. I 

mean, right now you cannot find enough construction materials to 

get to the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. We saw a drain on resources everywhere. So when it comes to almost 2,000 contracts 

that we let, there is very little time to do the due diligence as if 

this was a blue-sky day and we had plenty of time to think about 

it. 

So what we have to go back and do is we have to look at the contractors that performed extremely well and are performing well to 

make sure that they are part of our pre-event cadre going forward. 

Senator MCCASKILL. Well, I know this Committee—and I am 

confident the Chairman would agree with me on this—whatever we 

can do to help incentivize States to be better prepared to handle 

some of this, that we then can confidently reimburse the State officials that have found the right contractors to deliver, in the long 

run it is going to be so much less expensive when they have located 

people locally to provide this anyway. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator MCCASKILL. And it is better for the States. You build up 

that base of contracting capability in the States. So I look forward 

to working with you on that, and thank you very much for your 

time here today. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. And we would obviously love the input from 

FEMA in terms of which States have the pre-let contracts, and I 

am happy to work with you to include requirements on any kind 

of FEMA grants, or whatever is under this Committee’s jurisdiction 

in terms of grants. 

Mr. LONG. OK. 
11 

Chairman JOHNSON. That would make an awful lot of sense. 

I would also just quickly ask, the constraint in terms of number 

of workers in terms of disaster relief. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Former Congressman Reid Ribble is head of 

the Roofing Association, and I think DHS called him looking for 

20,000 roofers, and he is short 20,000 roofers. 

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir. So let us talk about that, too. At one 

point—and here again the numbers are so huge in what we are 

dealing with, it is hard to say here is exactly what we were spending today. But at one point we were spending close to $300 million 

a day. That is FEMA. That is the Federal Government, putting 

that down to help others. When I was State Director of Alabama 

Emergency Management Agency, I bet my general fund budget 

was, if I remember correctly, somewhere close to about $6 million. 

So, basically, FEMA is spending every hour or 2 hours, the general 

fund budget set aside for a State emergency management agency. 

What 2017 has taught not only us—there are plenty of lessons 

learned for FEMA to get better, but it is a call to the State legislators and local elected officials to make sure that their emergency 

management agencies at the State level and their local emergency 

managers are well staffed and well budgeted, and we cannot ignore 

the fact that disasters seem to be getting worse. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Peters. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS 

Senator PETERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Long, it is good 

to see you. You have been a very busy man. We appreciate your 

attendance here today. 

I am also encouraged by the comments you have made related 

to reducing the complexity with FEMA. Certainly that is something 

that we must do, and I appreciate your focus on that, also taking 

and using taxpayer dollars much more efficiently than they have 

been done in the past. And one of those programs in particular is 

the Public Assistance Alternative Procedure 428, which you have 

already spoken about in relation to Puerto Rico, which will be 

using those monies. 

But I have also heard some concerns from folks that this new 

program could shift costs to Puerto Rico without ultimately saving 

total funds on recovery efforts, especially if any unforeseen challenges should emerge. I would imagine that certainly Members on 

this Committee would also have concerns about accepting estimates 

from the Federal Government without input or without at least significant input into those estimates. 

So I have just a yes-or-no question to start, and then I have some 

other questions afterwards. So this is simply yes or no. Did anyone 

in those meetings held after the storm in the White House—you, 

the President, Mr. Mulvaney, Mr. Bossert, or anyone else—either 

implicitly or explicitly suggest to Governor Rossello or his leadership team that Federal funding or support for permanent work in 

Puerto Rico would be withheld, altered, or limited unless he requested to use the 428 program as modified by the text found in 

the amended declaration? 
12 

Mr. LONG. No. The bottom line is Governor Rossello is not a Governor that can be strong-armed, and I have yet to meet a Governor 

that could be strong-armed. That is just not the approach that we 

take with FEMA, no. 

Senator PETERS. OK. Good. As the Chairman noted, costs associated with disasters continue to rise all the time. You are well 

aware of that as well. But ensuring accountability and efficient use 

of taxpayer dollars must always be our top priority. 

In Puerto Rico, the Federal assistance they stand to receive exceeds their entire annual budget over many times, actually. And in 

late November, Governor Rossello held a press conference and indicated FEMA will have unprecedented authority over approval and 

use of the money on the island. 

Could you describe this unprecedented authority that FEMA is 

instituting in Puerto Rico and what specifically the Commonwealth 

must do to provide to FEMA prior to being allowed to draw down 

any funds? 

Mr. LONG. So here again, we had to implement a manual drawdown process for Puerto Rico because of the liquidity issues. This 

is going to sound harsh to Puerto Rico, and that is not the case. 

I am not trying to be harsh, but the bottom line is that the Commonwealth had not been able to demonstrate the fact that they 

were going to be able to manage this amount of money wisely, and 

it is my due diligence to protect the taxpaying dollars. Initially, 

when we were putting money in the hands of the Commonwealth, 

too much money was beginning to be drawn down at a quick rate 

that did not make sense to us, so we put a stop on it, and we implemented what is called the ‘‘270 process,’’ where it is a manual 

drawdown process to ensure that the money is going where it needs 

to be and in a thoughtful process. 

The Governor and I spoke about this last week, and we continue 

to put forward—and my conversation with the Governor was, listen, if you want us to relax the manual drawdown process, then I 

need to understand specifically what the Commonwealth’s plan is 

to manage money and how this is going to be done. He and Mike 

Byrne, my FCO, are working through the best way forward, because, yes, the manual drawdown process does slow things down. 

But I am caught between a rock and a hard place all the time on 

move at the speed of light, and protect the taxpaying dollar. So we 

are trying to strike the right balance, and the Governor and I have 

had very productive conversations, which is why we are able to 

move forward now. 

Senator PETERS. OK. Economic analysis on the Sheltering and 

Temporary Essential Power (STEP) Program, during Hurricane 

Sandy response indicated that the program could save the government upwards of $170,000 per household when compared to the 

traditional individual assistance options. I am certainly very encouraged, we all should be encouraged by the innovative nature of 

this program, and certainly it is my hope that we can continue to 

prioritize cost savings and recovery. 

My understanding is that the program, though, was slow to deploy in Texas and that most people had already found alternative 

housing or were taking advantage of the shelters or TSA Program, 

presumably at much higher cost to the Federal Government since 
13 

housing assistance is paid for at 100 percent cost share, as you are 

fully aware. So my question is: How can FEMA, through incentives 

in the emergency management grant programs or through guidance from FEMA, ensure that States are prepared to leverage 

these cost-saving programs and successfully manage the very complex web of housing assistance with real case management that oftentimes seems to be lacking? 

Mr. LONG. Senator, this is an excellent question, and if I can 

take a minute, I am ready to hit the reset button on housing, period. I think the entire program is wasteful. I am just being honest. 

I think what we have to hit the reset button. I believe I need granting authorities, and I would hope that this Committee could lead 

the way for us to redo disaster housing. 

Right now, what we did with Texas specifically is that we knew 

because of the multitude of homes that were impacted that the traditional way of doing business was not going to work. When people 

say housing is moving slowly; compared to what mission moved 

quickly in housing in history? I do not know where one moved 

quickly, but the bottom line is we put up more options on the table 

for Texas through direct construction, through the STEP Program, 

through temporary repairs that were made, and then we also allowed the Governor to be able to purchase through inter-service 

agreements manufactured homes and travel trailers. But the problem is if I go through an intergovernmental service agreement to 

the Governor, who boldly stepped up to lead the housing—and he 

is one of the only Governors that has truly done this—he has to 

follow my procurement rules and not the State procurement rules. 

So what I need specifically is granting authority to do housing 

to where I can grant the funding to the Governor and the Governor 

can control whether or not he or she would like to do the STEP 

Program, direct construction to the house, or to buy travel trailers 

off the lot. The most frustrating thing to me in Texas is when you 

are driving out of town and there are not enough manufactured 

homes in this country based on the way that I have to purchase 

them to be able to get to Texas, but I drive past private RV lots 

filled with travel trailers that I cannot touch. It makes no sense. 

If you give me the granting authority to push down to a Governor, 

they can go buy what they need, and I reimburse them, and it is 

much quicker. 

Governors know their people better than FEMA, and they know 

how the housing solutions will work. The fact of the matter is a 

housing plan in Texas is not going to work for what we saw in 

California. It is not going to work in Puerto Rico, either. So it has 

to be granting authority that allows a Governor a multitude of options based on whether it was a flood, whether it was a wind event, 

or whether it was a catastrophic fire. 

So I am ready to hit the reset button. I think what we are good 

at, sir, we are good at mission assigning, the Army Corps of Engineers to do blue roofs. They did over 60,000 blue roofs in Puerto 

Rico, for example. We are good at supporting shelter efforts. We 

sheltered over 1.1 million Americans in 2017. At one point there 

were close to 300,000 Americans in shelters overnight. We are good 

at doing that. We are pretty good at getting money to the citizen 

who needs to repair their home. But after that, I am not a housing 
14 

1The letter referenced by Senator Harris appears in the Appendix on page 47. 

construction expert. It needs to go to the Governor. The Governor 

needs to be empowered to be able to do what they want to do with 

a permanent housing construction. Then, when it gets too difficult 

for both FEMA and the Governor and the damage to the house is 

greater than 50 percent, this is where the Housing and Urban Development (HUD) needs to step in. This is where the funding needs 

to come in for HUD to deal with the hard case that we are just 

not designed to manage. 

Senator PETERS. Well, I appreciate that answer, Mr. Long, and 

I would love to have a chance to work with you as we try to sort 

that through. I am out of time. I have a number of other very detailed types of questions that I would like to present to you and 

work with your staff. 

Mr. LONG. OK. 

Senator PETERS. And I think there will be other opportunities for 

us to work together to achieve the goal which you want to achieve, 

which is to streamline FEMA as well as make it more responsive 

in terms of taxpayer money. 

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir. Thank you. 

Senator PETERS. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. By the way, you just confirmed why your 

optimal disaster response tag line needs to be reordered to State 

managed, locally executed, federally supported. This is to-do number two, the grants on the one side and then in terms of housing 

assistance as well. So let us work together with your agency to give 

you the authority you need. Senator Harris. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HARRIS 

Senator HARRIS. Administrator Long, I want to thank you for the 

work that you have done as a priority for you as the leader of 

FEMA and the men and women of FEMA have done in California 

in response to the fires and the mudslides. That work has been 

right on time and been very helpful, so thank you for that. 

I would also like to submit a letter for the record from the California Office of Emergency Services1 concerning the Administration’s Fiscal Year (FY) 2019 budget request for FEMA. In particular, the letter outlines California’s concerns that the Administration’s budget for FEMA has reduced Federal funding for education, training, and exercises by 47 percent and reduced Federal 

funding for pre-disaster mitigation grants by 61 percent. Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit that for the record, please. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Without objection. 

Senator HARRIS. Mr. Long, I appreciate that in your testimony 

this morning you said, and I think I am quoting you directly, ‘‘We 

cannot ignore the fact that disasters seem to be getting worse.’’ 

And I could not agree more. 

However, in contrast, I am concerned that FEMA has removed 

references to climate change from its Strategic Plan. The previous 

plan, which covered 2014 through 2018, specifically mentioned climate and climate change seven times and devoted an entire section 

to how climate change impacts the risks that communities face. 
15 

What concerns me is that the current Strategic Plan does not mention climate, let alone climate change, not even once. 

In response, FEMA’s Public Affairs Director stated, it is ‘‘evident 

that this Strategic Plan fully incorporates future risks from all hazards, regardless of cause.’’ And I will tell you specifically what I am 

concerned about with that. Climate change itself does not cause 

natural disasters but, rather, acts as a force multiplier, meaning it 

exacerbates the environmental conditions that favor disasters like 

wildfires and large wildfires. So when it comes to these devastating 

natural disasters, we cannot plan for the future, I believe, without 

acknowledging, understanding, and incorporating the impacts of 

climate change. 

So my question to you is: How can FEMA adequately prepare for 

future disasters without acknowledging, recognizing, and, in fact, 

even removing acknowledgment? 

Mr. LONG. So I really appreciate the question, Senator, and, look, 

I believe the climate is changing. I believe that the ocean is rising 

about 1 inch every decade. But I also believe there are other cycles 

that increase and decrease activity, such as thermal circulation. 

That is how the oceans flow around this Earth like a river. It increases, it pumps warm water and cold water in and out of hurricane basins, for 20-and 30-year purposes. OK? I believe in El Nino 

and La Nina and the cycles that take place, and to me El Nino 

means less hurricanes, freak nor’easter snowstorms, and tornadoes 

in places that they do not typically get them. It has implications 

for wildfires in California. 

The Strategic Plan also does not mention earthquakes. It does 

not mention school shootings. It does not mention anything specifically because we are an all-hazards agency regardless of cause or 

frequency. 

I cannot solve climate change. That would be similar to me saying let us stop plate tectonics and stop earthquakes as well while 

we are at it. 

Senator HARRIS. So, Mr. Long, I appreciate your point, and we 

do not have to belabor this. But I only have a few minutes left. 

Mr. LONG. OK. 

Senator HARRIS. And all I would ask you is that we not play politics with issues like this, because as you and I both know, those 

folks who are devastated by these tragic events are not thinking of 

themselves as Democrats or Republicans. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator HARRIS. They are thinking of themselves as American 

citizens who need help and need their government to be honest 

about what is causing and what is exacerbating these situations 

that are affecting their lives and the lives of their children and 

communities. 

So moving on to earthquake preparedness, I appreciate that in 

your opening statement you mentioned it at least a couple of times. 

According to the United States Geological Survey (USGS), there is 

a 72-percent chance that a large 6.7 magnitude earthquake will 

strike the Bay Area in California within the next 30 years. The last 

time FEMA responded to a major earthquake in California was a 

quarter of a century ago, the Northridge earthquake. 
16 

1The timeline referenced by Senator Harris appears in the Appendix on page 79. 

So my question to you is—with the potential for a major earthquake to happen at any time, it is obviously imperative that FEMA 

be prepared to deal with this. How are you ensuring that FEMA 

is ready to respond to the next catastrophic earthquake, and using 

all that is available in terms of the resources and technology that 

did not exist a quarter of a century ago. So what is happening, and 

also in light of the fact that there is now reduced support for your 

agency in terms of training in the budget that has been submitted 

by the Administration? 

Mr. LONG. Senator, going back to the Strategic Plan, Goal 2 is 

ready the Nation for catastrophic disasters. I recognize it. It keeps 

me up at night, the low-to no-notice event, whether it is a nationstate threat or an earthquake. 

So the bottom line is that I have to move my staff out to do better integrated planning with the State of California, for example, 

and other States. I want to get my people out to be part of the discussion every day to make sure that we understand the gaps fully 

in California’s ability to rapidly respond, because if a major earthquake strikes one of the cities, San Francisco, for example, we may 

not be able to get supplies in very quickly if the roadway structures 

there—and I realize that. So we have to make sure that the State 

bolsters their own capability and that we are incentivizing them to 

do so. 

The other thing is that, going back to the original question and 

on top of this one, nothing is more effective than pre-disaster mitigation. So here again, I do not control the resiliency at the local 

level. We need to make sure that when people are building and 

populating areas that are vulnerable to earthquakes or vulnerable 

to hurricanes, that they are doing so in a mitigated manner. The 

way we address mitigation in this country is regressive. 

Senator HARRIS. I agree with you. 

Mr. LONG. You have to have it. 

Senator HARRIS. We have to do a better job. I agree with that. 

Mr. LONG. We need to do a better job. 

Senator HARRIS. Can you provide us, please, with a timeline1 for 

what your plan is for making sure that FEMA is prepared for California’s earthquakes and what you might need from California 

State government? Can you please provide me with that as a follow 

up to this conversation? 

Mr. LONG. We would be happy to. 

Senator HARRIS. And then, finally, a question concerning the 

USVI and Puerto Rico. You probably know that 7 months after the 

hurricane, a lot of the folks in Puerto Rico, for example, cannot access disaster aid because so many of them cannot provide official 

documentation that they own their property. This is one of the 

issues that contrasts the States like California with the territories. 

And, in fact, in Puerto Rico they have a history, a widespread history of informal land ownership, and that makes it difficult for 

them to obviously provide this information, which means they cannot then have access to the aid that you otherwise would provide. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 
17 

1The information referred by Senator Harris appears in the Appendix on page 89. 

Senator HARRIS. Can you tell me what your systems are for 

verifying proof of ownership so they can have access to that aid and 

what your plan is for the future, knowing that they have this informal system of land ownership? 

Mr. LONG. So I think what is best is I acknowledge, Senator, you 

are right, the old way of doing business was not ready to handle 

this cultural problem that we have when it comes to ownership. 

What happens is that the actual homeowner may live in the continental United States. It could be a grandmother, a grandfather, or 

an aunt or uncle, and it is something that we are trying to work 

with, to overcome, to try to locate who actually owns the home, because we may be bound by the authorities of the Stafford Act to 

where it is hard for us to get around that. 

So what I would like to do is work with my team to say here are 

the fixes that we need to get around or these are the fixes that we 

are temporarily putting into place. 

Senator HARRIS. Can you give us a timeline1 on when you expect 

that understanding and that system within FEMA to be established? 

Mr. LONG. Sure, absolutely. 

Senator HARRIS. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Earlier in the hearing, I used the term 

‘‘moral hazard,’’ and I think I should point out one of the major reasons for the increasing costs of these disasters is the very high 

priced development that has occurred throughout the decades in 

these disaster-prone areas. Again, that is that moral hazard that 

somebody else takes care of the cost, they continue to do that. How 

many times do people rebuild in the flood zone? So I think that is 

a real problem. Senator Heitkamp. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 

Administrator Long. You have had quite a tenure since we all got 

together during your confirmation hearing, and we have watched 

very closely and understand and appreciate that your experience 

with Hurricane Katrina may have helped inform, but I am very 

concerned about what is happening in Puerto Rico, very concerned 

about the ongoing challenges that Puerto Rico experiences. And I 

think, just because it is not on the front page of the news, I want 

to acknowledge that the whole country should be helping to help 

Puerto Rico recover. As a State like North Dakota where we had 

a whole city taken out, we had exactly the same problems. People 

could not access paperwork. We have to figure it out, and we have 

to be engaged and re-engaged in Puerto Rico. 

But I want to talk about something that is probably nearer and 

dearer to my heart, which is communications systems and the ability to have redundant and navigable communications systems during a disaster. 

In response to one of my questions for the record in a previous 

hearing, you noted that agencies must proactively develop logistics 

community plans that mitigate the destruction, disruption, and 

overload of communication capabilities. 
18 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I could not agree with you more that this has 

to be integrated and, this is not something that you build from the 

top down. We build from the bottom up. To date, what steps have 

agencies taken to develop those continuity plans? And what role 

are you playing in the development of those plans? I think this has 

to be one of our highest priorities. 

Mr. LONG. So actually improving continuity and resiliency of 

communications capability is Goal 2.4, and we are putting a lot of 

effort into reviving continuity of operations, continuity of communications. 

The problem that we may run into is I do not know how much 

of local and State governments have control over to influence how 

the private sector builds a resilient backbone into the communications system that we operate on. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Can you explain that for me? 

Mr. LONG. For example, in Puerto Rico a lot of the communications systems that we are dependent upon are owned by other private companies. They are not owned by the Federal Government, 

State government, or the local governments, and so the private 

company has to come in and fix it. What they will tell you, and 

probably rightfully so, is that the technology changes so rapidly 

that to invest in a mitigated system is costly because the technology constantly has to be changed and the systems have to be upgraded to keep up with the way technology and information 

flows—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. So to that end, obviously Google came in and 

stood up their airborne communications system. A lot of things 

were tested. So it is not just about what infrastructure is there and 

whether that infrastructure is adaptable to what you are doing. 

But what have you learned from Puerto Rico in terms of communications? And what should we be investing in to be better prepared? I agree with the Chairman that we want to mitigate and 

look at how we can avoid the moral hazard of continuing to do the 

same old thing. But this is backbone Emergency 101, that we will 

need this no matter whether we even have a disaster. We have to 

have this capability. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. So, Senator, we learned a lot of lessons particularly from Hurricane Maria. After Hurricane Katrina and September 11, 2001 (9/11), we learned that we need to be interoperable, which means we have to have multiple agencies being able to 

talk to one another. Well, after Hurricane Maria hit, we could not 

communicate, period. So it changes the way we did everything, 

and, for example, we get hit on there was not enough food and 

water on Puerto Rico. That is not correct. There was food and 

water on Puerto Rico. It was messaging to the people on where to 

go to the hubs or to the community leaders to be able to go where 

to get it. So we had to adapt not only that communication, but we 

also had to call in military what they call ‘‘case teams,’’ putting 

speakers on helicopters and flying over the Commonwealth to say 

go here, do these things, and putting out a public awareness message. 

Unfortunately, a lot of FEMA’s Individual Assistance Program 

was moving to a digital platform that forced us to go back to navi-
19 

gating by the stars and pencil and paper, again, to register people 

into our systems. I think that we are too dependent on the communications backbone. The integrated public alert and warning system that we use for nation-state threats, we are kind of at the 

mercy of how redundant and resilient the private companies are 

that we utilize to get the message out. 

Senator HEITKAMP. That is exactly my point. 

Mr. LONG. That is exactly it. 

Senator HEITKAMP. And so what I am trying to get at is how are 

we reaching out to private entities, maybe better understanding, 

better capability, better understanding of what we can do. Obviously, Puerto Rico is a discrete area. It is an island, so that gave 

us a little—it is not like it was nationwide. That gives us a great 

little test ground for where we can, in fact, deploy different forms 

of communication. And I want to make sure that this is, like you 

said, the top priority, but that we are not creating something that 

cannot be integrated in the communications system that we have; 

and if it cannot, that we are providing redundancy that is totally 

separate from the private sector. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. What I would like to do is I can respond to you 

in writing. I would like to go back to my continuity staff to talk 

about the dialogue that they are starting, but part of this problem 

is greater than FEMA. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Absolutely. 

Mr. LONG. We need to get the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and others involved, and what is the standard that we 

are striving for, because we are becoming more and more dependent on digital technology. 

Senator HEITKAMP. But we also have more and more sophisticated technologies that are more micro. They are not—if you look 

at a grid, you think, OK, you are going to stand up, a kind of generation to transmission grid. That is pretty fragile by weather or 

by terrorism. What are we doing to make sure that we can re-establish micro communications, micro energy power distribution? All 

of these things, this is what I want to see in the follow-on report 

from Puerto Rico. I want to know how we are going to be more resilient and more redundant both on power and on communications. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. So I think that is a fair question to ask the private vendors. I am not the expert when it comes to the communications. I can tell you what FEMA is doing, but as far as the private 

vendor—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. But you cannot do it without the private. 

Mr. LONG. You are right. We cannot. 

Senator HEITKAMP. So it is two sides of the same coin, and what 

I am saying is this has to be a priority, because I do not want to 

see what happened in Puerto Rico happen again. 

Mr. LONG. Yes, ma’am. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Lankford. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Let me add on to that conversation. A big gain that we can have 

from this, Brock, is lessons learned and things that can change in 
20 

the future. You have already mentioned some of those dealing with 

housing, for instance, and how that needs to be managed as far as 

grants back to States, what the Federal Government should have, 

what the State should have, so that they can do what they do well 

in the local entities. 

Is there a pending report that is coming out at some point that 

is kind of lessons learned from 2017, here is what FEMA is going 

to change and the things that we are doing that we see that were 

wrong, but we have the authority to do; here is what needs to 

change but we do not have the authority, we need legislative 

changes on these if you could help us with statutes; and here is 

what private industry needs to be able to do, that they have to do 

just in the free market, but we just want to make them aware and, 

quite frankly, their stockholders aware that these are some gaps 

that are in the system? Will something like that come out? 

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir. So early on, what we did is we embedded 

what we call ‘‘learning teams’’ in our Joint Field Office (JFOs) and 

within the agency, and we were very proactive in saying we need 

to capture exactly what is going on. As a result, we are currently 

working on an internal after-action report that I would be happy 

to share with the Committee, once completed. 

Senator LANKFORD. That would be great, especially the areas 

that obviously FEMA has the authority to be able to do, what they 

need to do right now, but what you do not have the authority to 

do. Do not worry about committee of jurisdiction. We are your Committee of jurisdiction. We can help get the information out to the 

different committees. 

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir. 

Senator LANKFORD. But if we just knew what is it that you need 

that are changes, that is inhibiting you from doing the work—and, 

again, a classic example of that already is your comment about 

housing. That is something that there is some prohibition in statute that you can do. We have to be able to find a way to either 

debate that and fix that or to be able to change your authorities 

or whatever it may be. Those are things that we need to fix for you 

to be more productive. 

Mr. LONG. Senator, one thing that is really important to point 

out is that it is not just FEMA that is in this game. We coordinate 

roughly over 30 different agencies and the fire power of 30 different 

agencies down, and one of the goals about reducing the complexity 

is how we streamline all of the funding. How do I go tell your Governor that this is what you are entitled to from these different 

agencies to fix the community? How do we get them to move in an 

expedited manner? For example, HUD funding, Community Development Block Grant (CDBG)–GR funding, is a fantastic piece of 

funding that is much needed by a community, but what happens 

is from the announcement, there has to be a 6-month period to 

write the Federal Register. There is a 3-month period to write the 

action plan on how you are going to use that funding. And then 

there is another month on top of that to make sure that we all 

agree, and then the money does not hit for a year. 

Senator LANKFORD. Well, 2 years later. 

Mr. LONG. So it makes it very difficult for a Governor to understand, well, I have to use FEMA money for this and these projects; 
21 

based on cash-flow, here is what I think I can hit on my recovery 

priorities, and I have to wait for this HUD funding to hit. And then 

there is Federal highway funding. There is Small Business Administration (SBA) funding. 

Senator LANKFORD. So where do we go to get the overview of 

that? How do we get that? 

Mr. LONG. Well, we start with my agency, and let me point you 

in the right direction. 

Senator LANKFORD. Great. That would be helpful to be able to 

get. Again, there is a big fight here typically on committees of jurisdiction and who has that and who does not have it. What we need 

to be able to have is members—and all of us are members are multiple committees. What we need to be able to have is the ability to 

be able to see these are the issues and to be able to get them out 

to the right committees to be able to make some of the decisions 

that need to be made, rather than worry about them, sorry, you are 

writing a report that is someone else’s deal. That does not work 

very well. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator LANKFORD. That does not solve the problem. So if you 

can give us a big picture and just know from our perspective at 

least, tell your folks not to worry about, ‘‘I am sorry, you cannot 

write about that because that is someone else’s agency.’’ If there is 

a communication issue or if there is a part of it—I have already 

had the ongoing conversations, for instance, on wildfires. Wildfires 

in California, if there are so many structures that are destroyed, 

tragically, you are involved. If it is a wildfire in western Oklahoma 

and it is cattle and fences and sheds, then Farm Service Agency 

(FSA) does it. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator LANKFORD. If FEMA engaged in it, they are going to get 

a response back in 30 to 45 days. It is going to be very rapid to 

be able to help them turn around a check. If FSA does it under 

U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), it will be a year to 2 years 

for them to get relief. Both of them had a fire, two different structures, two different systems on it, and so we have to be able to figure out a way to be able to solve that. 

Mr. LONG. Yes, I agree, Senator, and the problem with the National Disaster Recovery Framework is it may be a plan without 

authorities given to the agencies that are truly in charge of things 

like power or housing. We can ceremoniously put HUD in charge 

of housing or Department of Energy (DOE) in charge of energy, but 

where the problem comes in is: Do they really have the authority 

and the funding mechanism to be the lead? Or are we just coordinating? Does FEMA end up being the lead for all of it? A lot of it 

that we are told to lead, we are not the experts for. 

Senator LANKFORD. Right. So, Brock, you are going to have to 

help us with that. 

Mr. LONG. OK. 

Senator LANKFORD. Let me mention a couple of other things as 

well. I do appreciate FEMA and how you continue to be able to 

partner with not only for-profit entities for contracting, but nonprofits that are out there, church groups, faith-based groups, whatever it may be. You are basically taking and coordinating whoever 
22 

is coming to help to help. Oklahoma Baptist Disaster Relief during 

what was happening in Houston was delivering 20,000 meals a 

day, just down there working with the Red Cross and getting a 

chance to get it done. We had multiple of our power companies that 

they picked up folks that have gone to Puerto Rico. In fact, we had 

another group from Oklahoma that just came back a few weeks 

ago. We are continuing to be able to send folks down there. 

Thanks for the way that you are continuing to coordinate and not 

have to say you have to be in this certain box, but that you are 

working through who is coming to help and trying to be able to 

work with all those groups on it. And so I appreciate that. 

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir, and the nongovernmental organizations 

(NGOs) and the faith-based community are a tremendous asset and 

one of the greatest assets in this country to help us overcome—— 

Senator LANKFORD. And then you can—— 

Mr. LONG. We cannot do it without them. 

Senator LANKFORD. Yes, and they can continue to be used. There 

has been a few in government for a while of saying, ‘‘I am not sure 

about that.’’ We need to continue to be able to use those faith-based 

and nongovernmental groups to be able to partner with them. 

Mr. LONG. You are right. What is beautiful about utilizing these 

agencies is that they do not have to adhere to my bulky Federal 

bureaucratic laws. They can do things that I cannot do. 

Senator LANKFORD. And rapidly. 

Mr. LONG. What I want to figure out is how we get the NGO’s 

on the front end of pre-disaster mitigation to help people before disaster strikes rather than just being seen on the back end as well. 

So how do we shift the mindset of maybe they can start installing 

hurricane clips for areas that are vulnerable to hurricanes and tornadoes. 

Senator LANKFORD. Be helpful, yes. 

Mr. LONG. There are a lot of things that we can do. 

Senator LANKFORD. Let me mention just a couple of other things. 

I want to give you another thank you for how you are working 

through with houses of worship, which has been completely confusing to me for years why, if a nonprofit there is hit with a disaster or a for-profit business or a house, they are treated one way, 

but if you are a house of worship, regardless of your religious affiliation, you are treated completely separately. Thank you for actually trying to draw those two together. We have now followed that 

up with a statute to make sure that that actually stays permanent 

on that. But that has been a lingering issue with FEMA for a long 

time. With the list that you come back with, whenever you bring 

that back, things I am going to watch for: electric grid, what has 

been durable and what is non-durable in the electric grid, what 

have we learned. I have talked with the Corps of Engineers, and 

it is my understanding when you actually talking about power coming back on and what actually is producing power, there are lessons to be learned about lines and about the poles. But there are 

also lessons about the power generation as well, what worked, 

what did not work, what survived disasters, what did not. There 

may be some lessons learned that we need to be able to get on that. 

The flood insurance is still a big issue for me, and for you, I am 

quite confident, but that is learning how we can solve the multiple 
23 

repetitive claims issues and any recommendations that you have. 

As you know, this Committee and others are dealing with the flood 

insurance issue for a while, and we are going to—I would hope we 

would get into duplication of coordination, as you have already 

mentioned. Any reports that you can give to us on that would be 

very helpful, and then we will try to follow through in the days 

ahead to resolve it. So thank you very much. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. We would be happy to provide ideas. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Hassan. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN 

Senator HASSAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and Ranking 

Member McCaskill. Good morning, Director Long. It is good to see 

you. 

It is fair to say, and I know that you have heard it already this 

morning, that many of us in the Senate were unsatisfied with the 

rate of recovery in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria hit the island. You were quoted last week saying that rebuilding Puerto Rico 

would cost $50 billion and that Puerto Rico was running out of 

time before the next hurricane season, which starts on June 1. 

Certainly the recent announcement that the U.S. Department of 

Housing and Urban Development will provide the island with $18.5 

billion in developmental assistance is a huge step in the right direction. However, other reports suggest that just under 20 percent 

of the island is still without power, including more than 100,000 

residents. 

So why after 6 months does Puerto Rico still ‘‘have a long way 

to go,’’ as you have said? Certainly its infrastructure challenges 

play a role. I understand that. And I know you spoke earlier about 

getting 428 authority. However, I want to know what specific steps 

FEMA and the U.S. Government will take in the coming months 

to help the island so that when you appear before this Committee 

again in 6 months we are not hearing about the same infrastructure obstacles we have been dealing with since the storm? 

Mr. LONG. Sure. One, rebuilding the infrastructure, I think we 

all have to back up and remember that a lot of the infrastructure 

was not functional, including major portions of the power infrastructure. 

Senator HASSAN. I understand that. I have heard you give that 

explanation before. I understand the challenges. What I want to 

know is what it is the United States of America and FEMA are 

doing, understanding those challenges, so that we can make as 

much progress as possible. What specific action items do you have? 

Mr. LONG. Sure. So the bottom line is we have over 4,000 employees there. I am getting ready to be one of the largest employers 

in Puerto Rico. We have hired close to 1,500 Puerto Ricans that we 

are training to be the Commonwealth and the municipal emergency 

management arm. We are doing a train-the-trainer and making 

sure that they understand our systems as well. In readiness for 

hurricane season, we are rewriting plans at all 78 levels of government that did not exist. We are rewriting the Commonwealth plans 

on their behalf and working with them. We are making sure that 

leadership is being put into place. But we are also getting ready 

to go through a set of culminating training and exercise, I believe, 
24 

June 14, there is going to be a full-scale exercise with the Commonwealth and with the municipalities to actually run through physical movements such as commodities. 

We have tremendously increased the amount of warehouse space 

that we have on the island and stocked it, in some cases for water. 

I think the last number I saw—and we can get you specifics—is 

there is a sevenfold increase of water that is being pre-positioned 

on the island. Then on the June 14 exercise, it is my understanding 

that we are going to be running those commodities and demonstrating how the new distribution plans will work and the municipalities that participate in the exercise are going to be able to 

keep those commodities to be able to store for future disasters. 

There is a lot that we are doing to ready the Commonwealth. 

Senator HASSAN. Well, I would love it if your team would follow 

up with us and give us kind of the full sense of plan here, because, 

again, I understand the problems you are dealing with, but what 

makes you all FEMA and what makes the United States the 

United States is that we do not look backward, we look forward. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Senator HASSAN. And we respond on the ground to make sure 

that our people have what they need in the face of disaster. 

I also just wanted to touch with you on the FEMA Strategic 

Plan. You and your team argue in that plan for simplifying the 

process by which FEMA administers assistance. I think we would 

all support the elimination of unnecessary red tape. In my State, 

it appears that bureaucratic disorganization has contributed to 

lengthy response times from FEMA. For instance, in one town in 

New Hampshire that was hit by a damaging storm last July, 

FEMA has sent 22 people on six different occasions to assess and 

reassess the same damaged roads. The frustrated fire chief of that 

town who has managed the town’s recovery—and I have to tell you, 

he has been managing recoveries for a long time and is a smart, 

able businessman when he is not being fire chief. He has told us 

that several of the FEMA personnel had to be shown how to use 

a tape measure and how to calculate the costs. FEMA has yet to 

release any funds to the town. 

With that said, you have highlighted how emergency response requires interacting with multiple levels of government and in many 

cases interacting with several different agencies within each level 

of government, something I certainly appreciate as a former Governor. Therefore, FEMA’s assistance and coordination system, it is 

complex by design because you are supposed to coordinate here, but 

how are you going to address this necessarily complex system and 

attempt to cut out steps or simplify this process? 

Mr. LONG. So in regards to the specific issue that you raise, I am 

not aware of that, but I would be happy to—I will personally call 

Perry Plummer, the director in your State, to follow up on that 

issue. 

Here is what we ran into and what I learned about staffing patterns and the way the system is set up. We had roughly—I do not 

know the exact number. We had too many people dispersed across 

the country working disasters that are pretty small, in my opinion. 

Now, the term ‘‘catastrophic,’’ it lies in the eye of the beholder. You 
25 

lose your house, you are uninsured, I realize that is a catastrophic—— 

Senator HASSAN. You are a small town with very little infrastructure. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator HASSAN. And a volunteer fire department. 

Mr. LONG. So if I remember correctly, there is a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report that says roughly 80 percent of the 

disasters that FEMA has to work with are less than $41 million 

when it comes to putting out public assistance funding. 

My question is: How do we get to the point where we become almost a granting agency to push the funding out, the public assistance funding through the Governor to where they have the trained 

staff, we simplify the systems to where they can put the money in 

the infrastructure back to work without me having to roll my staff 

even to your State? We are having to constantly break down the 

policies, and one of the problems that we have is the inspection 

process. It is not just FEMA that does inspections. It could be Federal Highway, the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT). 

There are a number of inspections that take place. But when it 

comes to dealing with specifically the disaster survivor, how do we 

do one inspection that cuts across every bit? We are not there yet. 

I do not have an answer. But here again, we are trying to kickstart the effort to reduce the frustration. 

Senator HASSAN. And I appreciate that, and I also know, Mr. 

Chair, that I am out of time. The one thing I would ask you to 

think about, because this is something that small States run into 

a lot, is that the Federal Government tends to look at comparables, 

and they say, ‘‘Well, this disaster is only a $1 million disaster. It 

does not really need people.’’ In my State, that is a huge disaster. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Senator HASSAN. And we do not have the people or infrastructure 

necessarily to receive those dollars from the Feds without help because of our scale. And so I just would ask that you guys consider 

the State scale, not just where the State falls in the Federal size. 

Does that makes sense? 

Mr. LONG. Here is where this Committee can help. We need to 

increase State management costs. Right now it is 3.34 percent. It 

should be roughly 12 percent. OK? 

Senator HASSAN. Yes. 

Mr. LONG. So that when there is a smaller disaster, if there is 

a $10 million or $20 million disaster, they can take 12 percent of 

what we are going to potentially obligate or obligate to hire force 

account labor or consulting firms to augment their capability to be 

able to do it. That is the direction we need to go because I cannot 

continue to send staff out to do every $2 million disaster. The Nation needs me to be ready to go for the Hurricane Marias and the 

Hurricane Harveys and the Hurricane Irmas. 

Senator HASSAN. Well, and I understand that, and I think the 

people in my State would say, with respect, if there is flexibility 

and targeted ways we can do this, that is great. But they pay 

taxes, too, and need FEMA to be there for them. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 
26 

Senator HASSAN. Because their disasters are as devastating to 

them as any disaster. So I would look forward to working with you 

on that. I think we have just got to get the balance right. Thank 

you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for letting me go over. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Daines. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR DAINES 

Senator DAINES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Long, thanks for 

coming here today. It is good to see you again. I know you have 

been Administrator for less than a year, and you have already had 

to help navigate our country through some very difficult times. 

Thank you. I know it has been some long hours. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator DAINES. However, there is always room for improvement. 

I appreciate you making a concerted effort to learn from last year’s 

lessons. It is critical we identify ways to do things better in the future as people lives and livelihoods, as you know, are at stake. 

In Montana, we experienced historic droughts. It seems like last 

year was either too much water or not enough water, and we were 

on the not-enough-water side. We had 2,400 wildfires burning 1.4 

million acres. I want to thank you for working with me—you took 

a call in the middle of one of our battles we were fighting in a fire 

in eastern Montana, in Garfield County—and for your assistance in 

getting Montana additional emergency funding last year. Your 

rural roots contributed to helping understand the fact of how do we 

deal with these disasters that hit rural America, where sometimes 

our conventional formulas do not always factor in, how we should 

think about assessing the need. 

Even with the significant snowfall we are getting now this year 

in Montana, early forecasts already are saying we are going to 

have above average fire potential this summer. That is a fire prediction I did not like to hear. 

As you mentioned in your testimony, we need to ensure that we 

are not just ready for catastrophic hurricanes but also for other 

natural disasters. In Montana, our concern is wildfire and how to 

prepare best for the upcoming season. 

FEMA declared eight fire management assistance grants (FMAG) 

for wildfires in Montana last year. I understand that with these 

grants there is a fire cost threshold that must be reached before 

eligible for reimbursement. But in a State like Montana, where we 

can have thousands of wildfires that are put out before they contribute to a major disaster, these smaller costs still add up and deplete State and local funds. Furthermore, clear guidance for frontier counties and their eligibility for fire management assistance 

grants is sometimes lacking. And I agree with your plan of making 

emergency response federally supported, State managed, and locally executed. A little breath of federalism is always refreshing 

here in these massive bureaucracies in Washington, D.C. 

Moving forward, my question is: How can FEMA and States like 

Montana with rural communities better work together to utilize 

Federal grant programs to mitigate the damage done by wildfires? 

Mr. LONG. So, Senator, excellent question. I have had very spirited conversations with Governor Bullock on going forward, and I 
27 

understand that your State has been totally ravaged by—almost 

like a death by a thousand cuts when it comes to the number of 

fires. The problem is that—how do you declare a fire season? If I 

declare a fire season, then do I have to declare a severe weather 

season for another State? It is difficult. It is my understanding in 

the omnibus that was recently passed there are some legislative 

fixes with Department of Interior (DOI) and Agriculture to help offset some of the costs that I cannot cover through the FMAG Program. But I think that what we are having to do inside FEMA is 

reset the bar and the intent of the FMAG Program internally and 

with our regions to say the purpose of this grant funding is to prevent a fire from becoming a major disaster declaration. We have to 

increase the dialogue that we have with our State partners to 

make sure that we are on top of it and helping to do all we can 

to suppress that fire before it gets way out of hand. 

But the issue at hand is we look at each fire as an individual 

fire. I do not know if I actually have the authority to look at the 

multitude of fires and declare one season, because you get into this 

complexity about incident period. Was it the same drought that is 

causing—was it the same weather system that caused all of the 

flooding, for example? Do we declare that whole period or incident 

as one disaster? With the fires, it is something that we have got 

to work through, and I would be happy to continue the dialogue. 

But it is also continuing the dialogue on where FEMA begins and 

ends, where DOI and Department of Agriculture also support as 

well. 

Senator DAINES. Well, thank you, and that dialogue will be helpful. It is also worth noting we have also got to get better at preventing and reducing the risk of these and severity of wildfires 

through better force management, and that is something else I am 

working on aggressively, because as these combustibles continue to 

build in our forests, they either burn or they are harvested. There 

really is not an option, there is not a Choice C in that multiple 

choice equation. So we have to do a better job as well as managing 

our forests, because as I have said before, either we will manage 

our forests or they will manage us. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator DAINES. So we have to fight kind of a two-front war 

here. 

Switching gears, I have introduced a bill, the Homeland Security 

for Children Act, that would simply ensure DHS’ Under Secretary 

for Strategy, Policy, and Plans, including input from organizations 

representing the needs of children. I am soliciting stakeholder feedback in developing policy. I say that as a Daddy of four kids myself; 

further, that a technical expert at FEMA be authorized to lead as 

external collaboration and policy developments to integrate the 

needs of children into activities to prepare for and respond to disasters. The bill has already passed out of this Committee, and the 

DHS reauthorization also includes its language. 

Mr. Long, as the Administrator of FEMA, how would this bill 

better equip you to protect our kids in the event of a tragedy? 

Mr. LONG. So, Senator, we do have programs that are geared toward helping children specifically cope with the aftermath as far 

as mitigating the impacts of disasters. I would have to look into 
28 

that. Let me go back to my staff, and then we could provide that 

in writing. 

Senator DAINES. We are trying to give you another vehicle there 

to help in that regard. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Senator DAINES. Both in preparation for and then after the fact. 

Last, I know Puerto Rico came up. As we saw in Puerto Rico following Hurricane Maria, establishing communications is critically 

important to effectively respond to a catastrophic event. I spent 

over a decade in the tech sector in cloud computing, and I am well 

aware of the need of reliable connectivity. 

Mr. Long, how is FEMA leveraging technology to improve communications following a natural disaster? 

Mr. LONG. Well, we have a long way to go, and in some cases 

I want to move away from manual processes to incorporate more 

technology to help us rapidly assess and approve assistance that 

goes forward. For example, as I quoted earlier, we had to do 2.4 

million home inspections. Why can we not use technology and imagery to say, yes, these houses are damaged, there is 8 feet of 

water in this house, therefore it is approved, rather than having to 

go through the cumbersome process of sending people out to verify 

damages. But we have to be careful to protect against waste, fraud, 

and abuse, which I do not think most disaster survivors by any 

means are trying to do. But we have to protect the taxpaying dollar, so it is the right mix of technology as well as the manual processes that we have to keep to ensure that the dollars are being 

right. 

The other thing on technology is we have had a very healthy discussion on redundant and resilient communications in regards to 

wildfires. As we were talking earlier, the communications systems 

were blown out by Hurricane Maria. Well, they were burned up in 

California. So a lot of this is outside of FEMA. How do I help the 

private sector or how does the Senate engage the private sector on 

mitigating these communication backbones to where we do not lose 

them for all hazard? Because if they are gone, for example, with 

the California wildfires, we lose our ability to communicate alert 

and public warning to citizens. 

We have got a long way to go, and I think that there is a lot of 

work that we can do to be more innovative in incorporating technology. 

Senator DAINES. I am out of time here. I want to tell you, Mr. 

Long, I know in your job you usually only are getting criticized and 

rarely affirmed. I think you are doing a great job. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator DAINES. You have had a tough year, and I appreciate 

your leadership, your attention to detail, your willingness to engage 

us when we are in times of need, and keep up the good work. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Jones. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JONES 

Senator JONES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, Mr. Long, welcome, and thank you for your service. I want to echo what Senator 

Daines said about your job, your performance now, but also thank 
29 

you for your service to Alabama, my State. It was very important. 

You worked tirelessly for the folks in Alabama. We have our share 

every year it seems, between tornadoes or hurricanes. We sit up in 

the spring waiting for that next tornado to hit, and then late summer and fall, it is always a hurricane going to hit the Gulf of Mexico. So we have had our share. It was 20 years ago this week, I 

think, that I was United States Attorney, and I toured the F5 tornado that went through Oak Grove and areas where my family had 

serious deep roots, both in their homes and their churches. The 

damage that can cause—and I would urge colleagues, if they have 

never, if something hits their State to go see. You cannot appreciate it on television like you can in person. It will take your breath 

away. 

Recently we had another tornado, a storm that hit in kind of the 

northeast section of Alabama that did a significant amount of damage in a number of counties, including damage to Jacksonville 

State University, a number of their buildings. Fortunately, it hit 

during spring break, and none of those students or very few of 

those students were on campus. 

Can you give me any update about FEMA’s interactions with our 

State authorities? I want to make sure that everybody is doing everything that they can to make sure that we have the appropriate 

documentation to maybe get some help. 

Mr. LONG. Senator, absolutely, and I will follow up with you in 

regards to what specifically is taking place, or the process when it 

comes to the damage assessments that are being done in Alabama. 

Tornadoes are typically tough, particularly on rural communities, 

because a lot of what they impact is typically insured. Like Jacksonville State, hopefully a lot of those buildings are insured, which 

cuts against the numeric indicator that would suggest that disaster 

declaration support is needed from the Federal Government, which 

is the way insurance should work. 

Senator JONES. Right. 

Mr. LONG. But one of the things I will do is go back and make 

sure that we respond to you on where we are in that process, and 

if there are any issues, I would be happy to—— 

Senator JONES. Great. It is my understanding from some information we got from the State yesterday that they are preparing a 

package that the uninsured costs now will probably top $35 million, so if you could just keep my office updated on that, and if 

there is anything that we can do to help with that, I appreciate it. 

Alabama, last year we had Hurricane Irma, and it is my understanding that as of April 9, the State completed their paperwork 

and closed that out in record time. So we are good stewards of the 

FEMA money. 

The second thing I want to talk about is really in Anniston, Alabama, we have a training center out at the Fort McClellan area, 

a training center for domestic preparedness, which is a training facility for State and local and tribal leaders from all over the country that come there every year. The President’s Fiscal Year 2019 

request for the Center for Domestic Preparedness (CDP) would be 

reduced despite the fact that the impacts of the 2017 natural disasters show that resources, in my view, for CDP should actually be 

increased. In order to respond to the 2017 hurricanes and wildfires, 
30 

the CDP activated a personnel mobilization center at its facility in 

Anniston and processed some 5,335 responders through that facility. 

Unfortunately, when they did so, they had to shut down the regular training for over 2 months, which cost training that had been 

scheduled for some 2,400 students from across the country that just 

could not go and that were delayed. 

So I guess my question is: If we are trying to create a culture 

of preparedness, as you state—and I think that everyone would 

agree with—it is important that we educate and train our State 

and local emergency managers. And what can we do to find ways 

to accommodate both training at the CDP and mobilization needs 

should those come up during the course of the year? And should 

we not prioritize resources toward developing that capacity? 

Mr. LONG. Senator, I think, as I said earlier in my testimony, 

money is tight and the bottom line is with grants and training, I 

agree, there is nothing more important than the trained emergency 

manager. The fiscal year 2019 budget was basically put together 

before what we just went through in the 2017 season, which is 

something that I think we all understand as well. But when it 

comes to training at the local and State level, it cannot just be on 

FEMA’s shoulders to do so. I think that it is time for the State Legislature of Alabama and other States to consider whether or not 

the Alabama Emergency Management Agency has its own robust 

training capability and dollars as well. This is a shared responsibility. Preparedness is everybody’s responsibility, from every citizen 

all the way up to my office. 

We are getting to a point where we need to evaluate how much 

the Federal Emergency Management Agency can continue to supplant across this country for the multitude of programs that we 

run, and something has got to give at some point. I wish I had tons 

of dollars to train everybody, but that is just not reality. 

Senator JONES. Right. Well—— 

Mr. LONG. The CDP, incredibly valuable asset. I have got great 

people down there. That is the disaster lab that I hope to better 

incorporate on how we utilize our entire training network. 

Senator JONES. That is great. Well, thank you very much. And 

I appreciate that, and I also understand and know from your experience in Alabama that this is not the first time you have advocated for State training and for legislatures in Alabama to step up 

and do the right thing. So I appreciate that comment. I agree with 

you 100 percent. We will do what we can from our standpoint, and 

I will be happy to go with you to talk to the Alabama Legislature 

sometime if they step up. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator JONES. Thank you so much for being here. It is great to 

see you. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you. 

Senator JONES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Jones. 

I had about 21⁄2 minutes on my first round of questions, so let 

me quickly ask two follow up questions. 

First of all, as it relates to insurance, from my standpoint, preparedness, part of that equation really is being adequately insured. 
31 

I mentioned moral hazard earlier. Do you believe that because of 

the Federal Government—and let us face it, we have been spending 

billions of dollars. Do you think the Federal Government’s involvement has actually incentivized people not to carry adequate insurance? And if so, to what extent? 

Mr. LONG. Well, when it comes to citizens, I think there is this 

myth that FEMA is an all-encompassing insurance agency that can 

put your life back together, and that is just not the case. If you look 

at Harris County, TX, for example, and some of the initial numbers—and here, again, these numbers will change as more policies 

are put into place. FEMA’s average payout typically in individual 

assistance is like $4,000 to $6,000 versus those who were insured 

through the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP), I think the 

average payout was over $100,000. So insurance is the first line of 

defense. 

Now, when it comes to governments, if we truly want to have a 

conversation about reducing disaster costs, in addition to doing predisaster mitigation, then let us look at the categories of permanent 

work that FEMA performs under the Stafford Act. One of those is 

Category E, which is public buildings and content. Cities and counties that self-insure their buildings or basically do not have insurance for their buildings, FEMA is on the hook to fix. Is that an opportunity for the private sector and the insurance companies to 

step up and insure that? Is that an opportunity to where I can reduce costs and the private industries should take over and be able 

to insure those? 

Chairman JOHNSON. My question: Are you seeing an uptick in 

the self-insurance, in other words, having no insurance? 

Mr. LONG. Well, in citizens, the unfortunate thing is that—what 

we just saw in California was unfortunately people who were struggling in retirement pay off their house, they let their insurance 

lapse, their fire insurance lapse, and then their house burned up. 

And they ultimately let it lapse to be able to have a couple hundred 

extra bucks a month in their paycheck. That is a big problem, and 

education and budgeting problem. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Again, are you seeing data that is actually 

growing? 

Mr. LONG. We can get that to you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. I would appreciate that. 

Mr. LONG. We would be happy to. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Second, I was struck by your testimony 

about the fact that you could not prove ownership. Now, is that 

something completely unique to Puerto Rico, or are you seeing that 

in other areas of the country? 

Mr. LONG. The volume within Puerto Rico is very unique, yes. 

Chairman JOHNSON. But is it totally unheard of in the rest of the 

country? 

Mr. LONG. It is not typically a major problem across the rest of 

the country. In some cases what we run into is people claiming 

ownership when they do not. It is more fraud than anything. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. 

Mr. LONG. But Puerto Rico is just the sheer volume. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. Well, again, those are my only two 

questions. Senator McCaskill. 
32 

Senator MCCASKILL. I will have some for the record. 

Mr. LONG. OK. Thank you, ma’am. 

Chairman JOHNSON. So, Administrator Long, first of all, again 

thank you. I do not envy you your task. I do believe that you have 

the appreciation and I think the respect and, quite honestly, the 

confidence of this Committee, which is saying an awful lot. So we 

do appreciate that, and please convey our sincere appreciation to 

all the men and women that have worked with you not only in 

FEMA but throughout the government agencies in really responding to something that was just completely unprecedented. So we 

truly appreciate that. 

With that, the hearing record will remain open for 15 days until 

April 26 at 5 p.m. for the submission of statements and questions 

for the record. 

This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:34 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 
(33) 

A P P E N D I X 
34 
35 
36 
37 
38 
39 
40 
41 
42 
43 
44 
45 
46 
47 
48 
49 
50 
51 
52 
53 
54 
55 
56 
57 
58 
59 
60 
61 
62 
63 
64 
65 
66 
67 
68 
69 
70 
71 
72 
73 
74 
75 
76 
77 
78 
79 
80 
81 
82 
83 
84 
85 
86 
87 
88 
89 
90 
91 
92 
93 
94 
95 
96 
97 
98 
99 
100 
101 
102 
103 
104 
105 
106 
107 
108 
109 
110 
111 
112 
113 
114 
115 
116 
117 
118 
119 
120 
121 
122 
123 
124 
125 
126 
127 
128 
129 
130 
131 
132 
133 
134 
135 
136 
137 
138 
139 
140 
141 
142 
143 
144 
145 
146 
147 
148 
149 
150 
151 
152 
153 
154 
155 
156 
157 
158 
159 
160 
161 
162 
163 
164 
165 
166 
167 
168 
169 
170 
171 
172 
173 
174 
175 
176 
177 
178 
179 
180 
181 
182 
183 
184 
185 
186 
187 
188 
189 
190 
191 
192 
193 
194 
195 
196 
197 
198 
199 
200 
201 
202 
203 
204 
205 
206 
207 
208 

Æ