· · · · · ·IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

· · · · · · · SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

· · · · · · · · ·CASE NO.: 1:22-cv-22707

PAYCARGO FINANCE LP,

· · Plaintiff,

· · -vsASPEN AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY,

· · Defendant,

BAY MARITIMES INC.,

· · Nominal Defendant.

_________________________________/

· · · · · · · · One Northeast 2nd Avenue

· · · · · · · · · · · · Suite 200

· · · · · · · · · Miami, Florida 33132

· · · · · · · · ·Thursday, June 8, 2023

· · · · · · · · 10:05 A.M. to 12:38 P.M.

· · · · · · · · · · · DEPOSITION OF

· · · · · · · · · · ·PHILIP PHILLIOU

· · · · · Taken before Jasmine Mercedes, Court Reporter,

a Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large,

pursuant to Notice of Taking Deposition filed in the

above-styled cause.

Philip Philliou

June 08, 2023

U.S. Legal Support | www.uslegalsupport.com ·

Case 1:22-cv-22707-KMW Document 40-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/06/2023 Page 1 of 8
·1· · · · · · · · MR. FANT:· The Excel is going to be Exhibit 9.

·2· · · · · · (Thereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 9 was marked

·3· for identification.)

·4· · · ·BY MR. FANT:

·5· · · ·Q.· ·And is this a common accounting document for

·6· PCF, something in this format?

·7· · · ·A.· ·No.· We probably created it to help you-all

·8· understand the transactions.

·9· · · ·Q.· ·And this would've been created from source

10· records in PCF's system?

11· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· I mean, I think what we did was we

12· added up the -- the bounces, and that's what you see

13· here.

14· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.

15· · · ·A.· ·And then -- and then we deducted the money

16· that came in, and that's how we got to the total owed.

17· · · ·Q.· ·So are these -- is this the total of bounces,

18· or is this the total that PCF were underpaid somehow?

19· Is this a total that PCF advanced for Bay Maritimes

20· under this credit agreement, or is this a total number

21· that was returned for insufficient funds?

22· · · ·A.· ·I think it's the latter, insufficient funds.

23· And then we got money that came in that we applied

24· towards it.

25· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you know why it says "paid"?· Is

Philip Philliou

June 08, 2023

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Case 1:22-cv-22707-KMW Document 40-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/06/2023 Page 2 of 8
·1· that PCF paying, or is that Bay Maritimes' repay?

·2· · · ·A.· ·Paid, partially paid.· I'd have to come back

·3· to you on that one.

·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And these invoices over here, are these

·5· PCF's invoice numbers?

·6· · · ·A.· ·I'd have to check that too.· Sorry.

·7· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· I don't think we had those.· And if

·8· they existed -- like, see, one of my questions here is,

·9· if you look at the date of these transactions over here,

10· the ones that were asserted in the Notice of Claim --

11· · · ·A.· ·Yep.

12· · · ·Q.· ·-- start on February 23rd, '21.· See that?

13· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.

14· · · ·Q.· ·And going back to Exhibit 8, they run down

15· through March 29th, 2021.· See that there at the top?

16· · · ·A.· ·Right.

17· · · ·Q.· ·All right.· So my question is, if the letter

18· in the claims notice was basically asserting and

19· documenting balance payments, as we'll call them, why do

20· they go all the way back to August of 2020?

21· · · ·A.· ·Because those were paid.

22· · · ·Q.· ·They were paid back by Bay Maritimes?

23· · · ·A.· ·Presumably, yeah.

24· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So anything on this upper level that

25· was paid isn't outstanding from Bay Maritimes; is that

Philip Philliou

June 08, 2023

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Case 1:22-cv-22707-KMW Document 40-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/06/2023 Page 3 of 8
·1· right?

·2· · · ·A.· ·I -- I think that's right, but let me -- let

·3· me validate that.

·4· · · ·Q.· ·Well, we're here to get your testimony on your

·5· damages, and I'm just asking how PCF came up with them.

·6· I'm looking at this Excel sheet, and it's a little

·7· confusing.

·8· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· So --

·9· · · ·Q.· ·Can you clarify it today or not?

10· · · ·A.· ·Well, what I know is he had a total of

11· whatever that is, 287, in bounced transactions.· We

12· received the 130, and the -- and that's how we got to

13· that total owed.

14· · · ·Q.· ·So he was bouncing transactions back in August

15· of 2020?

16· · · ·A.· ·I mean, I'd have to validate the date. I

17· mean, I think that's what this is saying, but I would

18· only know by looking at the transaction.

19· · · ·Q.· ·But did you do that in preparation to testify

20· on PCF's alleged damages?

21· · · ·A.· ·You know, like -- like I said, we -- we went

22· through this with Bay Maritimes, and Bay Maritimes

23· agreed with the amount owed.

24· · · ·Q.· ·Did you review the damages documentation to

25· come in and testify about PCF's alleged damages?

Philip Philliou

June 08, 2023

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Case 1:22-cv-22707-KMW Document 40-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/06/2023 Page 4 of 8
·1· So we're at the bottom of the page, or second set of

·2· numbers.

·3· · · ·A.· ·Yep.

·4· · · ·Q.· ·It starts with the TRC number on the left. I

·5· don't know what that means.· Maybe transaction record

·6· something.· And over on the right, it's got amount,

·7· description.· Amounts are set out in one column,

·8· description next to it.· All say, "incoming money

·9· transfers."· Do you see that?

10· · · ·A.· ·Yep.

11· · · ·Q.· ·And then next to that, for all but one of

12· those, the note says it was by wire.· Based on the type,

13· slash, check number, description.· It looks like that

14· first payment may have been via ACH.

15· · · · · · And then there are a series -- one, two,

16· three, four -- four of them that say Growth Capital is

17· making these payments.· See that?

18· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· I'm not sure if that's what we meant by

19· that.· We received wires, and on the wires, I believe it

20· said, you know, for the Growth Capital transactions,

21· like, the -- that's how to apply the money.

22· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.

23· · · ·A.· ·But again, I'd have to validate that.· That --

24· I'd have to validate that.

25· · · ·Q.· ·And what you're saying is you don't know

Philip Philliou

June 08, 2023

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Case 1:22-cv-22707-KMW Document 40-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/06/2023 Page 5 of 8
·1· today, sitting here today?

·2· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· I mean, I'm -- at this detail, you

·3· know, typically it's the vendor is -- the vendor is

·4· paying us back.

·5· · · ·Q.· ·The vendor is paying you back.· You mean Bay

·6· Maritimes is paying you back?

·7· · · ·A.· ·Bay Maritimes, yeah.

·8· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.

·9· · · ·A.· ·Again, this stuff happens in the system.· It's

10· not like I'm looking at this at a transaction level.

11· All I care about is that we're getting paid back.

12· · · ·Q.· ·Right.· You don't care where the money comes

13· from, as long as you're getting paid back?

14· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· I just need to know the money is being

15· paid back.· So we'd have to investigate.

16· · · ·Q.· ·Can someone else make a payment to PCF on

17· behalf of Bay Maritimes?

18· · · ·A.· ·It's not typical.· I -- I'd have to research

19· that.

20· · · ·Q.· ·All right.

21· · · ·A.· ·It's not typical that somebody's paying on

22· behalf of any of our customers.

23· · · ·Q.· ·Does PCF have a document or some documentation

24· for these wire transfers showing where they were

25· initiated, the initiating party, all that typical type

Philip Philliou

June 08, 2023

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Case 1:22-cv-22707-KMW Document 40-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/06/2023 Page 6 of 8
·1· information?

·2· · · ·A.· ·I -- I'd have to ask our accounting

·3· department.

·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· We don't have them.· I think it would

·5· be -- it would be beneficial to have them.· I believe we

·6· requested them.· So I'll follow up with your lawyers on

·7· that.

·8· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.

·9· · · ·Q.· ·But the bottom line, today, is that you don't

10· know if Bay Maritimes made those wires or if Growth

11· Capital made those wires, but you believe it was Bay

12· Maritimes?

13· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· I mean, honestly, I'm not sure I care

14· one way or another which party was paying me, as long as

15· I was getting paid for the Bay Maritimes transactions.

16· · · ·Q.· ·Right.· Do any of the shipping vendors in

17· PayCargo's system pay PCF on behalf of a user like Bay

18· Maritimes?

19· · · ·A.· ·Again, just to be specific, they're paying

20· PayCargo back, who then pays us, is the way the system

21· works.

22· · · ·Q.· ·Paying PayCargo back?

23· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· So --

24· · · ·Q.· ·PayCargo advanced the funds?

25· · · ·A.· ·We advance the funds in the system through

Philip Philliou

June 08, 2023

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Case 1:22-cv-22707-KMW Document 40-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/06/2023 Page 7 of 8
·1· accounting department.

·2· · · ·Q.· ·How would this document have been created

·3· without access to PayCargo's wire records?

·4· · · ·A.· ·It wouldn't be.· I mean, we work hand-in-

·5· glove.

·6· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· The type, check number, description

·7· file that we're looking at here, is that automatically

·8· generated, or is somebody typing that in?

·9· · · ·A.· ·I'd have -- I'd have to check.

10· · · ·Q.· ·Who would know?

11· · · ·A.· ·Presumably, somebody in the accounting

12· department.

13· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· How many folks are in your accounting

14· department?

15· · · ·A.· ·It's -- it's PayCargo's accounting department,

16· and I'm not sure how many people are in there, how many

17· employees they have.

18· · · · · · · · MR. FANT:· All right.· Go to what we received.

19· · · · · · So this will be Exhibit 10.

20· · · · · · (Thereupon, Defendant's Exhibit 10 was marked

21· for identification.)

22· · · ·BY MR. FANT:

23· · · ·Q.· ·These are documents that Aspen received that

24· appear to be bills of lading from Hapag-Lloyd for this

25· specific transaction.· It's got carrier reference

Philip Philliou

June 08, 2023

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Case 1:22-cv-22707-KMW Document 40-2 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/06/2023 Page 8 of 8