1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 1 U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY PUBLIC HEARINGS REGARDING EPA OBJECTIONS TO 36 DRAFT NPDES PERMITS FOR DISCHARGES ASSO CIATED WITH COAL MINING

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

Transcript of Public Hearing held on

June 7, 2012, commencing at 7 p.m.

Eastern Kentucky Exp osition Center 126 Main Street Pikeville, Kentucky

Lisa M. Schwarze, RPR, KyCCR Registered Professi onal Reporter1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 2 MS. MacPHERSON: Okay . Good evening, everyone. If you could please take your seats. We would like to get started. My name is Charlie MacPherson, and I'll be facilitating tonight's session. My role tonight is to ensure that as many people as possible have the opportunity to share comments and that we do so in a safe and secure environment. So to help achieve those objectives, I just want to review a couple of the ground rules. Everyone should have a copy of these ground rules on the a genda that you should have picked up on your way in. But I just want to review a couple of them. First of all, please show courtesy to all the speakers. Everyone deserves a chance to be hea rd, and please respect when they are speaking. Any disruptions is just going to take time away fro m another speaker. So I appreciate that. Second, for the speak ers we have established time limits; again, so that we can try to hear as many comments as possible tonight. So please adhere to those time limits so that our other speakers can also share the ir comments. In terms of if you have cell phones, please turn off the1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 3 ringers, put them on vibrate. If you do need to have any conversations, ple ase do so outside of the hearing area out of respect to the other speakers. In addition to your agenda that you have, it is a white piece of paper, on the back side is a form that you can use to submit any written comments that you have. An d you can leave that at the registration table. These written comments, in addition to the statemen ts that are being made tonight and any other mater ials that you want to leave, will all be made part of the administrative record. In addition, we are making a transcript of everything that's being said tonight, and that will be made available on EPA's website. Finally, we are provi ding sign language interpreters tonight for an yone who might need that service. I just want to see if there is anyone in the room, if you could stand up, that does need the sign language services so we could move you closer to the front. Okay, I don't see anyone at this time. But I 'll ask at one more point during the hearing. I want to briefly rev iew the process we're going to follow for making our statements tonight.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 4 Everyone who has expr essed interest or registered on-line to make a statement should have received a speaker number in the upper corner on an orange sheet of paper. So if you think you are registered but you have not received this, please go out to the registration table now so you can get your number. Okay, I'l l be going into more detail about the spea king process after our opening remarks. But at this time, I would like to introduce Jim Giattina, who is the presiding officer for this hearing. MR. GIATTINA: Thank you, Charlie. Good evening, everyone. I'm Jim Giattina, Director of the Water Protection Division of the U.S. Environmental Protection Ag ency's regional office in Atlanta, Georgia. EPA's Regional Administrator has designated me to conduct this public hearing. Mark Nuhfer, chief of our municipal and industrial permit section, is assisting me this evening. And I want to thank everybody for being here, and I appreciate the City of Pikeville for allowing us to hold the hearing h ere this evening. As I said, let me sta rt by thanking you for being here. I know you are very busy folks. And1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 5 I want to say that we recognize that coal mining operations are critically important to Kentucky and for meeting our energy needs as a nation. We recognize that many of you are worried about jobs. We also know that many of you are concerned about the impacts coal mining may have on your health and environment. The purpose of this hearing is to listen to your con cerns, especially as they relate to the 36 permits the EPA has objected to that are the subject of this hearing. I want to note that E PA and the Kentucky Energy and Environment Cabi net have been working over the past two years to identify a set of common sense practice s and appropriate permit conditions that we believe protect and will improve water quality while addressing the industry's concerns for clarity and cost effectiveness. Most of the se practices have been developed by experts here in Kentucky and are beginning to be implemented at local mines. For example, some mining compan ies are redesigning mines to reduce the number, size, and location of fills, they are more carefully monitoring pollution levels in stream biology at their mines, and using realtime ad aptive management techniques1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 6 to prevent problems d ownstream. They are beginning to find, ta rget, and isolate specific sources of pollutants to keep them away from the water. This is the k ind of innovation and care that will help ensure coal mining remains a vibrant part of this local economy. Our desire at EPA is for the Commonwealth to move forward and issue permits that require these kinds of innovative approaches and that have appropriate pollutant limits to p rotect water quality. Let me briefly give y ou some additional background information that is important for you to understand as you make your oral or written comments. The permits that we are discussing are water discharge permits, known as National Pollutant Discharge Elimina tion System, or NPDES, permits. And these permits are required by the Clean Water Act. An NPDES permit is the basic tool for controlling water pollution, and it contains conditions and limitations to protect water quality and its many uses, such as fishing, swimming, canoeing, and as a source of drinking water. The Clean Water Act requires that NPDES permits include pollutant limits stringent enough to ensure that discharges do not cause violations1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 7 of the Commonwealth's own w ater quality standards. As part of the permit ting process, Kentucky provides copies of draft NP DES permits to EPA for our review. Now, since Augu st of 2009, based on information provided by the Kentucky Division of Water, the Division has issued individual NPDES permits for approximately 87 surface mining projects and 28 underground mines or coal preparation plants. Additionally, the Division has allowed approximately 2 ,500 new and existing coal mining projects to pro ceed under its general permit authority. Over the past two years, the EPA has objected to t he issuance of a number of draft permits by the Divisi on, 36 of which remain and are the subject of this hearing. While the majority of mining projects that need NPDES permits in Kentucky have received authorization to go f orward, EPA remains concerned with mining discharges. In 2010, the Kentucky Division of Water estimated that at least 1,522 miles of Kentucky's r ivers and streams are threatened or impaired due to mining. Recent studies, as well as t he experiences of coalfield communities, point to new environmental challenges1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 8 largely unknown even 10 yea rs ago. Sediment, salts, and metals that runoff from poor mining practices can destroy the habitat that sustains fish and other forms of aqu atic life in eastern Kentucky waterways. They t hreaten sources of drinking water and can affe ct the quality of life for the people of this regi on. Our objections to these 36 draft NPDES permits are based on the same fundamental concern, that p ermits must be strong enough to control pol lution from these mines, pollution that can harm hum an health and aquatic life. This evening, we are here to listen to the concerns that you have abou t these permits. And, in particular, it is important that we receive any specific information you have with regard to these mines and the waters they d ischarge to. I know we are limited tonight in how many people can speak. I encourage everyone who is interested in contributing comments and unable to speak tonight to do so in writing, and that contact information is provided at the table in the back. The public comment pe riod will close on June 21st. I want to emphasize at this point that no final decisions have bee n made. After1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 9 considering all of the comments, the data and information received on the permit objections, EPA's Regional Administrator in Atlanta will make a decision to reaffirm, modify, or withdraw each of the original objections. Once these decisions have been made, we wi ll notify the Kentucky Division of Water, each of the permit applicants, and all of those who have registered and provided a mailing address. O ur decisions will also be posted on EPA's website. If we withdraw any ob jections, the Kentucky Division of Water will be able to move forward and issue those permits. If we reaffirm or modify any objections, the Division of Water can send us revised draft permits withi n 30 days that address our concerns. And if for some reason we cannot reach agreement with the Di vision, then EPA will issue a permit for th ose particular mines. However, as I said earlier, I am hopeful that we will be successful in reaching agreement on the permits with the Kentucky Cabinet. This is our opportunity to hear directly from you, and I want to th ank you again for being here and for participating in this process. At this time, I will turn it back to Charlie, who will1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 10 moderate the remainder of t he hearing. Thank you. MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you, Jim. In terms of how we're going to op erate with the speakers, I'm going to be calling the numbers out in blocks of 20. And when I call your block and it has your number, I'm going to ask you to go to the back of the room, the back right, where two of our staff, who are standing there now with numbers, and they will give you a briefing on the speaking process, and then they'll send you back at the appropriate time. So at this tim e, I would like numbers 1 through 20 to go to t he back right of the auditorium. Could you guys hold up your numbers? There we go. Thank you. So at this time, I would like to introduce Secretary Peters of t he Kentucky Energy and Environment Cabinet and Commissioner Bruce Scott of the Kentucky Depar tment for Environmental Protection to make so me opening remarks. SECRETARY PETERS: Th ank you, Charlie. Good evening. I am Len Pe ters, Secretary of Kentucky's Energy and Environment Cabi net. And on behalf of Governor Steve Beshear, I want to thank Region 4 for conducting this hearing to receive comments on their objections to Clean Water Act permits for1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 11 surface mining operations in eastern Kentucky. Today's hearing is un precedented in Kentucky. Also unprecedented is the State feeling compelled by matters of principle to sue the U.S. EPA, which we did in 2010, because of what we deemed to be arbitrary and inconsi stent application of policies governing mining operations . My comments today regarding EPA's objec tions to these permits, therefore, are consistent w ith the concerns we have expressed for mo re than two years now regarding this issue. As someone responsible for overseeing the State's environmental protection programs, I support and am, in fa ct, obligated to enforce regulations necessary to protect our land, air, and water resources. We can and must do all that is reasonably possible to protect our environment and the lives and health of our citizens. We have federal and state law s and regulations that not only guide this process but that bind us so that our decisions are not arbitrary, political, or otherwise without basis. Environmental permitting is not designed to st op legitimate business activities, whether we are talking about a mining activity, a manufacturing facility, or a water1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 12 treatment plant. Rather, permitting is to ensure these activities are done in accordance with existing laws and regulations. R egulators and a regulated community need ce rtainty in the process. In addition, regulators and a regulated community need to be assured th e decisions are made fairly and reasonably, based on accepted scientific studies and analysis. The Energy and Enviro nment Cabinet and the U.S. EPA have an impo rtant partnership, and we share the same mission, to protect human health and the environment a nd to ensure environmental protection laws and r egulations are implemented and enforced fairly and reasonably. Kentucky cannot simply reject surface mining permit applications that are in accordance with existing laws and regulations. Desp ite the rhetoric from some, surface mining, including mountaintop removal mining, is a legal form of mining that occurs on privately-owned l and. We follow the federal Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act, the Clean Water Act, and other federal provisions in operating the Kentucky program. Coal can be and is being mined in an environmentally respo nsible manner. We continue1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 13 to make improvements, and the industry has been willing to do things better . For example, the Beshear Administration init iated a novel approach to ensuring enhanced enviro nmental protection of surface mining operations through a fill minimization protocol, a protocol that should have been embraced by the EPA but was not. All sources of energy production use, even renewables, have an environ mental impact. But existing laws and regulations are in place to minimize impacts and to rec laim mined land. That is what is disconcerting to us, that EPA has applied a specific be nchmark, that is conductivity, to Appalachia n coal mining, a de facto standard has been based on what should be very narrowly interpreted incomplete science, not one that should be a surrogate measure of overall water quality. I read an opinion pie ce in the paper this week that even misrepresent s the facts by saying that conductivity is a meas ure of contamination. The EPA knows and I know that this is not true, and yet many people do not know otherwise. Governor Beshear and I recognize and respect that EPA has a responsibility an d obligation to revise1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 14 and update regulations and program requirements as necessary to protect human health and the environment. However, EPA should not create new regulatory requirements tha t have not undergone the appropriate Congr essional or rulemaking processes. As it is, EPA is preventing through its objection process Kentucky, a delegated state, from issuing permits with no recourse for us or for the regulated community or for the thousands of Kentuckians who depend on mining for their livelihoods. We should not allow a few studies, studies that have credible counterpoints, to determine the economic dest iny of one region of the country. We have allowed rhetoric and misinformation to overwhelm what should be a legitimate discussion of very important issues, jobs, human health, t he environment, and the rational application of adm inistrative oversight. I will close by sayin g that I appreciate the efforts of the staff within Region 4. They worked closely with our Cabinet to arrive at a solution to move these permits forward. We were assured by headquarters that if we wer e to reach agreement, which we did, that EPA woul d honor that agreement.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 15 Unfortunately, that u ltimately was simply not the case, and many months later we are still all experiencing the cons equences of headquarters' actions. Thank you for the opportunity to offer some opening remarks. (Applause) COMMISSIONER SCOTT: Good evening. My name is Bruce Scott. I'm the Commissioner of the Kentucky Department for Env ironmental Protection. I want to thank you f or the opportunity to provide comments today regarding EP A's pending objections to 36 draft KPDES per mits for discharges associated with coal mining operations in eastern Kentucky. The Commonwealth of Kentucky has been delegated authority by U.S. EPA to administer the NPDES program in Kentucky since 1983. Since 1983, there have been tens of thousands of NPDES permits proposed and issued by Kent ucky for wastewater and storm water discharges across the Commonwealth, ranging from individual homes, to cities, to industries, and to coal mining operations. The Agency is aware of only one prior instance where an EPA permit objection of a Kentucky proposed1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 16 draft NPDES permit may have occurred. That was approximately 25 years ago for an industrial operation. No previously proposed NPDES permit for a coal mining ope ration has ever previously been objected to. However, since April of 2010, EPA has objected to a pproximately 40 proposed individual NPDES coal mining permits and has approved only one individual NPDES permit for a new or expanded surfa ce mining operation in eastern Kentucky. Si nce receiving NPDES delegation in 1983, Kentucky has maintained conformance with fede ral EPA regulatory requirements. Simply stated, Kentucky's regulations and regulatory requirements are the same as the federal r egulations and regulatory requirements. With regard to the 36 EPA permit objections subject to the public heari ng here today, it is noteworthy to point out tha t EPA has not made any changes to the federal NPDE S regulations that are subject to these permits of this hearing today since April of 2010. In addition, there have been no changes to the app licable water quality standards at the state or federal level that apply to Kentucky waters that are at issue in these1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 17 permit objections since 2010, of April. The question, therefore, must be asked: What changed? What state or federal regulations have changed that has resulted in these EPA objections since April of 2010? While that question r emains pending, Kentucky has continued to work extensively with the EPA to address EPA's evolving comments and concerns that have been expressed over th e past two plus years. Kentucky has provided numer ous proposed draft permits, both formally and informally, consistent with existing state and federal regulations in an effort to resolve these objections. We have remained committed and hope ful that a resolution of these objections can and will be achieved. With specific respect to the EPA permit objections subject to this public hearing this evening, the EPA's stated concerns primarily fall into two categories. First , with respect to how the reasonable potential an alysis, or RPA, was performed to determine whether the proposed discharges have a reasonabl e potential to cause or contribute to a violation of Kentucky's water quality standards. And, secondly, the establishment of permit requirements in accordance1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 18 with the determination of that reasonable potential analysis. With respect to the first issue, Kentucky followed existing EPA-appro ved RPA procedures, regulations, and appl ication requirements consistent with 40 CFR 122. 44 and 40 CFR 122.21. Specifically, Kentuck y evaluated available discharge data and/or reque sted discharge data where it was unavailable for new discharges, as per existing regulato ry requirements and permitting procedures. With respect to the second issue, Kentucky imposed a combination of chemical specific limitations and monit oring requirements, whole effluent toxicity limitatio ns and monitoring requirements, best management practice requirements, and ins tream biological assessment requirements and limitations. In addition to addressing the individual parameter RPA requirements, the narrative water quality standard for conductivity and total dissolved solids is met via the combination of all these identified permit requirements, consistent wi th 40 CFR 122.44. In addition, the instrea m biological assessment requirements are designed to address the site1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 19 specific nature of th e receiving stream, as specified in the narr ative water quality standards cited in 401 KAR 10.0 31, Section 4(1)(f). In light of these fac ts, we respectfully request that EPA withdraw its permit objections. We look forward to continui ng to work with EPA in our ongoing effort to bring resolution to these issues in a timely manner. Thank you again for the opportunity to provide these brief comments, and we will be provid ing additional written comments on these EPA permi t objections before the close of the comment period . Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay. Tha nk you. Now it is time for our public comment period. And we have our first speakers coming u p. The way it is going to work, and we have some seasoned speakers that they can lead us through this, each speaker will have two minutes. I will a sk you to first say your speaker number, then y our name, spell your name, please, so we can get it correct in the transcript, your orga nization that you are representing, if any. And if you are referencing any specific permits, please state that as well. Then we will start the timer, which is up there1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 20 now. And you will see you have got two minutes. At the end of the two minutes, I do ask that you conclude your comments. If you haven't finished, we ask that you submit the remainder in writing, as many people have brought statements with them. The microphones will slowly go softer, so it won't be your imagination. And t hen we will turn to the next speaker. So with that, I would like to open it up and start with speaker number 1. SPEAKER NO. 1: Thank you. I am speaker number 1. And I am D onna McClure, "M," as in "mining," c-C-l-u-r-e. And, unfortunately, Congress is in session this week and Senator McConnell could not be here . So I am reading a statement from the United States Senate Republican Leader, Mitch McConnell. "Like most of t he country, Kentucky is suffering from very difficu lt economic times. Far too many Kentuckians are unemployed and the prospect for future employm ent remains daunting. It is especially irri tating this Administration has blindly followed polici es eliminating jobs in our communities. The people of Kentucky are amongst the hardest working people on earth. But1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 21 how can we be expected to compete if our own government is working against us. Simply put, my constituents are under siege from the Obama Administration's regu latory agenda, and EPA is the worst offender. These 36 objections are fur ther proof of this siege. Perhaps the c learest example of this Administration's regu latory assault is its war on coal. Since being sw orn in, President Obama's EPA has set out to circumvent t he will of Congress and the American people by turning the already cumbersome mine permitting process into a backdoor means of shutting down coal mines. 18,000 Kentuckians work in c oal mining. And nearly 200,000 more, including farmers, realtors, and transportation workers, rely on the coal industry. Attacking an industry so important to Kentucky will only succeed in puttin g people out of work, impeding future job growth, and increasing energy prices. A former senior EPA o fficial under the Obama Administration recently summed up the regulatory philosophy of the Agency with respect to those working in the coal busines s with saying it wants to crucify them. With this radical environmental1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 22 anti-coal agenda, it is no wonder the Administration has failed to answer the American people's call for gre ater domestic energy production. The real world impact of their fantasy world e nergy policy is pe ople are losing their jobs and energy price s continue to increase. It is high time the O bama Administration stop treating the Kentucky coal industry as being part of the problem. Kentucky coal is the solution." (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. PUBLIC SPEAKER: I'm back. My name is James Milliman, M-i-l-l-i-m-a-n, State Director for Senator Rand Paul. And Senator Paul cannot be here tonight. Because I'll tell you what he is doing, Ladies and Gentlemen , he is up in Washington, DC as we speak fighting the EPA. And he will continue. (Applaus e). He will continue to fight the EPA until we achieve victory and keep your jobs. But the Senator has f iled a list of questions that he would respect fully request a written response for. And we have filed them in the box, so. But there is another question he wanted to1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 23 ask, but I can't ask it now because something else came up. Today's June the 7th, and I just got a White House blog from the White House. And here is what it says, Ladies and Gentlemen, a White House blog on the -- here it is, the White House. Do you know what it says? What it is about? Protecting jobs in the American wind industry. The wind industry. And it goes on to talk about what a great priority protecting jobs in the American wind industry is. Not a word is mentioned about coal. Not a word. And my question to the EPA is: Why are you more concerned about protecting jobs in a wind industry with companies like Solyndr a that rapes the country, rapes the country of billions of dollars for Obama donors, and you neglect and spit in the face of these hard-working miners who for 250 years have provided energy to this country. Why? Why do you choose wind over coal? Thank you. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 3: I'm Danielle Smoot, speaker number 3, with Congressman Hal Rogers' office. Also here with me tonight is our new District Director, Chris Girdler. He is also the 5th District State Senator Elect.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 24 Congressman Rogers would love to be with us here tonight. But he is also in Washington, continuing to fight this same fight on Capitol Hill. Congressman Rogers has grave concern about the Environmental Protection Agency's strangulating regulations on Appalachian coal. In fact, earlier this year he told EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson that the Agency's behavior is contemptible. Time and again, the EPA has tried to bypass the Congress and weaken sta te authority. And they make no secret of thi s Administration's intentions to shutdown Kentucky coal. The permit process is now so complex that our coal operators are jumping through regulatory hoops tr ying to understand the constant shift in standards and rules that don't apply to everyone. What we do know, what has been made very clear, is that only one 404 individual permit has been approved fo r a new surface mining operation in Kentucky in th ree and a half years. And, folks, that is downright shameful. Congressman Rogers has made it clear that just because you are pro coal does not mean you are against the environment . He is the co-founder of the eastern Kentucky PRI DE organization that1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 25 has invested environmental education in every school district in southern and eastern Kentucky, inspired upwards of 33,000 volunteers to cleanup our hillsides every April and remove nearly 30,000 straight pipes from dumping raw sewage into our streams. In fact, some of PRIDE's most proud sponsors and volunteers are coal operators and the coal mining families that are with us here tonight. Whether you have taken note or not, the coal operators have made great strides in reducing their environmental footprint. T he EPA does have a duty to protect the environment. No one here tonight wants to elim inate environmental laws. But we do expect them to be applied fairly and consistently so our coal mining families can build a business, start a family, or buy a home without the fear of another pink slip because another permit is on hold. Congressman Rogers asks the EPA to overturn its objections to these permits, set aside its political agendas, and allow coal miners in Kentucky to provide for the ir families. Thank you very much. MS. MacPHERSON: Than k you very much. Thank you.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 26 (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Before the next speaker, let me just check if anyone has come in that needs the sign language interpretatio n services. If you could raise your hand and stand up. Okay, I didn't see anyone, so I thi nk you can sit down. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Speaker number and then

name. SPEAKER NO. 4: Thank you. I'm speaker number 4. My name is Greg Stumbo. I currently serve as State Representati ve for the 95th District, which is basicall y Floyd County, down just a few miles south of here. And I'm currently the Speaker of the House in Kentucky. I also had the occasion to write the state's primacy law in 1980 in my first session in the General Assembly. And I live on a reclaimed surface mine. And I probably as a private attor ney collected on behalf of injured miners and their families more benefits than anybody in this whole state. For 30 years, that is who I represented. So let me tell you my objection to what you are doing here. When we enacted our primacy law, it was because Congress wan ted a national standard1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 27 for states that engaged in mining practices. And for 30 years, that has worked. But now what you want to do, it seems to me, is change the standard just because you don't like a particular form of mining. That is not your prerogative; that is the prerogative for the Congress of the United States. The federal Surface M ining Act was passed in 1977, the Clean Water Act in 1972. And the legislative act that passes last takes precedent. So what you have to look for is what was the intent of Congress. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship. If you want to change the law, go lobby Congress. If they ch ange it, we'll obey it. If the Kentucky legislature changes it, we'll obey it. My problem is, that what you are doing is striking down the intent of Congress to have a uniform law for all t he states just to penalize

us. If you don't believe that mountaintop mining has a positive effect, come see where I live. There is a championsh ip 18-hole public golf course, little league ball field, soccer fields, a riding stable, a residential community. We need this land to lift ourselves up out of poverty. (Applause). Because, unles s you have noticed, our1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 28 topography won't let us develop in the valleys because they are prone to flooding. If we are ever going to get out of the cycle of poverty, we have to utilize the tops of our mountains so that the next generation of eastern Kentuckians look down at the mountains and not up at them. Don't take this tool from u s. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Than k you. The next speaker. SPEAKER NO. 5: I'm s peaker number 5. I'm State Representative Rocky Adkins . I represent part of eastern Kentucky. I have just finished my 25th year in the Kentucky House of Representatives. I r epresent Elliott, Lawrence, Boyd, and Rowan County. I also serve as the majority leader in the Kentucky House of Representatives. I would like to start my comments, if justice is defined as equal treatme nt under the law, then what the EPA is doing with coal mining in our region is the most sh ocking example of injustice I have seen in this country in many years. I'm glad you are here to get a direc t look of the impact of your rules and regulations. Thousands of jobs1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 29 have been lost directly and indirectly in the coal industry and in the m ining industry. Businesses have been hurt and shutdown . These are real people, not a statistic, people with families trying to put food on the table, put a roof over their heads, send their kids to school. (Applause). Your rules and regulations with 404 permits, over 200 of them have laid with no decisions, they have hurt o ur coal industry and hurt our people. You r rules and regulations on 402 permits is hurting our industry and putting our people out of work, destroying our economy. Federal regulations that only impact six states in central Appalachi a and not the rest of the country, you have targeted and attacked the coal industry of our region , and I believe your game plan is to put t his industry out of business, send our people home without a job, and destroy our economy. I hope this is not true, but the evidence from your actions would find you guilty of every charge in every court throughout this country. (Applause). Kentucky is a primacy state, given the authority over the last 30 years to review and make decisions on granting mining permits. Our1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 30 professionals in Kent ucky are professionals, qualified, who have done a great job with the responsibilities in this area. The Kentucky Department of EPA, led by Secretary Len Peters and Commissioner Bruce Scott, t wo highly respected and highly dedicated people, ha ve known they are known nationally for their expert ise. This is why Kentucky filed suit against the federal EPA and rightly so. You said that after 30 years of primacy, after 30 years of providing the experience in Kentucky, and then all of a sudden we want to change the game. I'm here to tell you, you do your job and l et our people do theirs and let them go back to work. (Audience members sta nd. Applause.) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 6: I'm s peaker number 6. I'm Fitz, F-i-t-z, Steele. I'm State Representative of the 84th District, and I proudly represent the number two and three largest coal-producing counties of this Commonweal th. I would like to thank everyone tonight for coming to support Kentucky's coal miners and my signature industry, the coal industry.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 31 As you know, Jim, I'm glad you have bottled water tonight, your water y ou are drinking, if you are drinking it, you are br eaking the law. It is against -- it is high er than the conductivity level of what you have set on coal mining. (Applause). I have fed my family for 20 some years being a coal miner. I'll be -- I'm a coal miner now, I'm a State Representative now, and a self-businessman. And I'll be a coal miner until the day I die. We will not stop mining coal. We can't stop mining coal. If this state stops mining coal, it will take 24 percent of this nation's renewables just to fuel what supply Kentucky needs to power this Commonwealth. No way. No wind, no power. No sun, no power. Coal wil l burn. We've got it. (Applause). My people is not afraid of al-Qaeda. They are not afraid of the air and the water they drink. They're afrai d of the Obama Administration. They have targeted us for over four years. And enou gh is enough. We won't change. We're going to have change. We're going to have change in November. I ask you, since April 2010 not one, n ot one eastern Kentucky permit has been issued. My brothers in the west1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 32 of Kentucky, their pe rmits fly through your-all's office. We don't get one. The same engineering, the same equipment, the same everything. Why are you dis criminating against West Virginia and Kentucky? Why? I ask you to look at it, go back, release our permits. Let my people go back to work. We don't want a handout. We're not like other groups. We don't want a handout. (Applause). We want to work and earn a living, a good living, a fair l iving. (Applause). And, also, I would like to invite you, as being Vice Chair, I know my Chairman has invited the EPA to hearings in Frankfort, you are welcome anytime. And like you had done last year for your private tours in eastern Kentucky, come let us take you on a tour. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Than k you. The next speaker, please. PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you. My name is Ray Jones. I'm the State Senator for the 31st District, Pike, Martin, and Johnson County. And it is my privilege to represent the largest coal-producing district of the 38 members of the Kentucky Senate.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 33 First of all, let me say that I am somewhat glad that we're havin g the opportunity to address the EPA. It has only taken 18 months since the first request was put in for a public meeting. You know, those of us who had the opportunity to go to law school, there is something you learned in the first year of law school, it is called due process. And let me tell you something, the process that the EPA went through in adopting the conductivity standards viol ates the due process rights of every man, woman, and child in Kentucky and West Virginia. Let me ask you, it is a basic fundamental question: Why doesn't this same guidance apply to Virginia? We have a tribut ary that runs into the Fishtrap reservoir from Vir ginia. It doesn't apply to Ohio or Pennsylvan ia. Why is that? But yet we find ourselves in a position where we have thousands of people o ut of work in eastern Kentucky, in large part because of the actions of the federal government. These folks would like to be home with their families tonight. A lot of these men and women worked today. But yet they have to come here to defend themselves against the United States1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 34 government and its bu reaucracy. There is something fundamentally wro ng with that. Now, let me tell you how much sense that this regulation makes. The largest polluter of our tributaries and streams thr oughout this country is agriculture, herbicides, pe sticides, fertilizer. It is up in our streams and creeks through erosion and runoff. What is next? Will the EPA stop our farmers from growing food because of that? It is no different, Ladies and Ge ntlemen. (Applause). And it is funda mentally wrong. This Administration and the EPA is out of touch with the needs of the people of this state. And it jeopardizes an econo my of an entire region. And one last thing. There is a federal prison on a reclaimed strip mine in Martin County. Now, that is how much sense that your policies make. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Next speaker, please. PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you. Yes. I'm State Representative Leslie Combs. And along with Senator Jones, we rep resent the largest coal-producing county in this state. Now, I often argue with Representative S teele, we argue over1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 35 who represents the se cond and third, but I say I represent the number one, t he number two, and the number three largest coal-p roducing counties. So you can imagine how I feel about this. You can imagine the industry and the people that I represent. But first and foremos t, folks, I want to welcome you. I want to wel come you right here to our -- I mean, you are right here. You are sitting in our home precinct. And we want to welcome you, because we are finally glad to have you here. Now, I am going to tell you one of the reasons why I am glad you are here. I get phone calls every single day from my constituents who tell me, "I'm losing my job. I'm losing my home. I can't afford to feed my family." I'm running out of things to tell these people. You all are here. Give me some answers . What do I tell these folks? (Applause). What do I tell them? Because I am going to tell you something about these wonderful peopl e, they are great. All they want to do is they want to go to work. But let me tell you something they are being told. They are being told that what they do is wrong. They are being told that what they do is bad.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 36 Well, I am going to tell you something about me, and they are just like me. I don't believe, I don't believe in doing thin gs wrong. I do not believe in being unethical, illegal, or doing things wrong. And I'm goin g to tell you what, these people know how to do it, they know how to do it right, and I'll be the first one in line to make them stay in lin e and do it right. (Applause). By golly, give them -- don't take it away. Talk about these 36 permits. I'm here tonight on all 36. B ecause, I'll tell you, about 10 or 12 of them are right here in Pike County. Ladies and Gentlemen, I can take you right now, just like Speaker Stumbo referred to, just like Representative Steele referred to, I can take you to some property right now that is absolutely unbelievable and it would k nock your socks off. It has got clean water. It is grazing cattle right now. It is acting like farmland, and it is acres and acres of pr operty that are absolutely beautiful. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Before the next speaker, if I could a sk the next block of speakers, 21 to 30, to go in the back of the room,1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 37 please, to get ready for sp eaking, to get your briefing. Speakers 21 to 3 0. Thank you. Sorry. SPEAKER NO. 9: I am speaker number 9. I'm State Representative Hubert Collins, Representative of Johnson, Martin , part of Pike, and part of Floyd. I 've been the House Transportation Chair for 17 years, also the ranking member on natural r esources and education. The influence of coal in these counties is of great importance. Jobs fro m coal is allowing men and women to support their families, put bread on the table, clothes on their backs, and educate their kids, and also to try to live a more comfortable life. But this is in danger. The EPA regulation not only affects the coal industry, but it affects farming, development, and road construction. We have come to realize there is a war on coal. I, along with all of our miners and all of our coal p eople, will fight this war as long as it lasts. The economy is already bad. But the continued old and new regulations makes it devastating. With th e rejection of the 36 permits, of which six of th em are in one of the counties that I represent, it will mean that the families may have to go wit hout food by losing1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 38 their job. But the c ontinued regulations, the old and the new, makes it more devastating and makes it more sure that the people may have to lose their ability to get food. Can you, the EPA, wit h this dishonorable decision accept this action? Every man, woman, and child has the rig ht to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. These irresponsible decisions will take this liberty away. We will not stand for these a ctions. It is unbelievable, and I would like to know the answer. Why is it that the water running from a mine site is more restricted than the bottled water and the tap water that we drink? This is wrong. This is wrong. Thank you all . May God bless. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 10: I'm speaker number 10. My name is John Short. I'm State Representative of the 92nd District in the he art of coal country in eastern Kentucky. I know that you have heard a lot about needing to study. Lo ok at the permits and start releasing them. I'm going to tell you what is going to happen in ea stern Kentucky if you don't release them. Our schools have already a low1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 39 attendance, but their population has been going down over the last ten years. This means that we'll have -- not hav e the money in our school system to give our children the education that they deserve. And if no permits are issued, our population will go down even more. We have already started bussing our young children for longer periods of time, whi ch they do not deserve, because of consolidat ion of schools. Every business in eas tern Kentucky revolves around coal. I have never worked in the mines, but I started making a livi ng from coal as soon as I graduated from coll ege. Our hospitals, Wal-Marts, restaurants, I c ould go on and on about all of the businesses that are built on mountaintop developme nt sites. We have thousands of fine homes built on these sites. I have a cousin, Tim Short. He gave $1.6 million for four acres of mountaintop development to put a car de alership on. I have several horses of my own an d love going to central Kentucky looking at the hor se farms. But several of these historic farms hav e been turned into housing developments and sh opping malls. To me, these farms are a lot more valuable and beautiful1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 40 than mountains that are economically worth nothing except for the coal that lies beneath them. I don't come to Lexington with my coal mining buddies and look like a bunch of idiots saying, "Save the horse farms." No. I see this as development of jobs so peop le can provide for their families. I own about 250 acres where I live, and it has never been mined. But I wish I could talk somebody into mining it. We also use mountaintop development for grazi ng cattle and horses. And we have the largest elk herd e ast of the Mississippi that forages on these development sites. What would happen if a group of legislators got together here in Kentucky a nd passed a bill into law that would require ever y stream in the state of Kentucky to have to pass the same regulations that you want us to abide by? I seriously doubt that there would be a stream in Kentucky that could pass it. What would the EPA do then if they had to enforce the law like they are enforcing it on us? It is also -- well ... MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. SPEAKER NO. 10: Thank you. (Applause)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 41 MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. And if you do run out of time, please submit those written comments up at the registration table so we ca n make it part of the record. Thank you. Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 13: I'm speaker number 13. I'm Dr. Charles Hardin, M agoffin County Judge Executive and a family physician in Salyersville, Kentucky. I would like for you to consider three things when making this decision. Number one, poverty breeds pollution. We already have enough problems in eastern Kentucky (Applau se) with providing for pollution control things, s uch as clean water, proper sewer. If you remov e some of these jobs, I as a county judge will not be able to deal with some of the household waste and other pollution things. Number two, when y ou raise the price of electricity from somewhere from 11 to 25 percent, there are going to be a lot of elderly people who sure can't afford their medications then. I know this is about health. But if you can't afford your medications, you don't have much health either. Please consider th at. (Applause). The third thing is, that I think that when I have1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 42 talked to most coal m iners, they understand that this is a future that is shrinking and diminishing. But we need time. This does not need to be done abruptly. We need to sit down with the business leaders in the coal industry, with the coal miners, with the EPA, with the environmentalists, and let' s get a program that doesn't do this abruptly. Give us time so that wind can be developed in Pi ke County. If you do this quickly, if you shutdown the coal industry quickly, when the energy pr ices go up, you will have a backlash. And I will guarantee you, in 5 to 10 years you won't be able to control coal mining, you won't be able to control pollution, and we won't be in no mood to compromise. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: And I do want to say, I really appreciate everyone adhering to the two minutes to respect all of the speakers. Thank you for that. Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 12: Judg e Rupert, number 12, County Judge Executive of Pike County, the largest coal-producing county in Central Appalachia. I am wondering why no Washington-based EPA is1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 43 here. I have got an idea of why they are not here, why they sent you all out of Atlanta. You know the video that they call an official in EPA in Washington, what did they say? What did the video say? "We're going to crucify the fossil fuel industry." That's coa l. (Applause). And you started doing a doggone good job. But I want to tell you all something. We're going to have a crisis in this country that you all are causing, you bureaucrats out of Atlanta and those in Washington are causing, that is going to be a crisis unheard of in America. This is a shame. You talk about water, water, water. And you all have put in p lace the most stringent regs that you could put in place that can't be met by this coal industry. Don't you realize that on the conductivity of water, that what you are requiring is beyond most of the publi c water systems in America? Look at your numb ers. Look at them. There is no way. You put in regulations to stop the coal mining in central Appalachia. Not only that, you are going to ruin this country. We've got a sever e problem of security in this country, of importi ng this oil. You don't realize that 42 cents out of every dollar in1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 44 Washington is spent, spent for imported oil. An opportunity. This Ad ministration in Washington cut the money off for research, cut the money off for clean coal technology so that you can strangle the coal industry of this c ountry. We are not going to stand of it. We are going to fight you until the end. These coal miners are the heros; they are not the villain. And thank God for coal. And God Bless America. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 15: I am speaker number 15. I'm the Martin County Judge Executive, Kell y Callaham. That is spelled C-a-l -l-a-h-a-m, as in "Mary." I want to talk to you about fairness. In 2009, you guys renewe d the 402 permits for Kentucky. And then in Apri l of 2010, EPA accepted the changes that the State applied to the 402 permits and the State was able to issue 27 permits. Why are tho se standards no longer acceptable? In 2011, the EPA sent letters out to 55 permits. This was the same letter, 36 of them was deemed as objection letters and 19 of them as1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 45 comment letters. How can it be the same? It was the exact same letter. On July the 21st of 2011, EPA implementation of the final guidance to eastern Kentucky and West Virginia. Other states in the same ecosystem, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia, and Tennessee, had no such limi tations. How is our water different? You know, when I first come in here, I met a good friend of mine that, that when he was growing up, he lived by the Tug Fork, and as many of you all in this room know , the Tug Fork is -- separates Kentucky and West Virginia. And I was proceeding to tell him that a friend of mine had caught a whole bunch of smallmout h bass in -- in a place. And I said, " Where did you catch those?" And he said, "You are not going to believe this, but I caught them in the Tu g River." Now, you are talking about a river back when my friend was swimming in it 30 years ago you would be black when you would come out. S o, you know, you all have done a great job, but it is time to get off our back. I mean, our streams are good. And -- and I don't und erstand the fairness. When your-all's director, Lisa Jackson, has1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 46 to slip into Kentucky and have meetings in secretive places with a bunch of tree-huggers, a people that wouldn't work in a pie factory tasting them (Applause), she -- she is not hearing -- she is not hearing both sides of the story. So I just want to ask you guys, the EPA and the President, to get off our back and let our coal miners work. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Thank you. Next. SPEAKER NO. 14: Than k you. Thank you for coming. I'm speaker number 14. My name is Randy Thompson. That's T-h-o-m-p -s-o-n. I'm the County Judge Executive of Knott County. I just want to say, our local governments depend greatly on the tax revenue from coal and we simply cannot afford to provide the services our people expect and deserve without this revenue. Plus, our entire eastern Kentucky economic base is totally dependent on the jo bs provided by the coal industry. Now, I thought I hear d one of the speakers from one of the envir onmental groups earlier today say, "These hea rings weren't supposed to be about1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 47 jobs." And I thought to myself, to hell they ain't. You tell seve ral hundred eastern Kentucky (Applause) coal miners they are going to lose their jobs because of something you created called conductivity, you damn well better be prepared to hear from them. These laid off workers are now trying to buy their g roceries, gasoline, pay their medical expenses, mortgages , car payments and more with unemployment benefits that don't come close to allowing them to make their ends meet. And from some of the commen ts I heard Tuesday in Frankfort, I got the imp ression some of you are more concerned with aquatic life than you are human life. (Applause). You say denying these permits is based on science. Well, even if it is science, shouldn't that sci ence be seasoned with just a little bit of common sense? I mean, based on your reasoning I need to start arresting kids that are peeing in my public pool. Because of declining coal tax revenue since 2010, I've had to layoff ne arly half of my county government's workforce. You say permits are being denied because the mi ning will pollute some streams. I am not convince d that is the real reason. Otherwise, you wou ld be assisting us in1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 48 getting rid of the real pollution problem, of failing septic tanks, strai ght pipes dumping raw sewage into the streams. I don't know about you, but I would 10 to 1 r ather take a drink of water from a running mine site than downstream of 100 straight pipes. (Applause). If you are truly seri ous about preventing pollution, issue these permits and encourage more mining. Allow our local go vernments to use the stream mitigation funds to pay for construction of wastewater treatment plants along the streams. If you are concerned about safe drinking water, issue permits, encourage more min ing so the local governments can receive more tax revenue, build more and better water treatment facilities. During the past seven years in Knott County, I have invested $25 million of coal severance tax revenue to provide water to Knott County families, water that is cleaner and safer than these families would have ever ex pected to receive had it not been for coal tax dollars. Put my people back to work. (Audience members sta nd. Applause.) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay. Thank you. Next speaker, please.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 49 SPEAKER NO. 17: Harlan County Judge Executive, Joe Grieshop, G- r-i-e-s-h-o-p. I am speaker number 17. The war on poverty in Appalachia was declared in the 1960s with President John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Baines Johnson. Their heart went out to our people and also to the coal industry. Much thanks to our natural resou rce coal and the coal industry, because they are, and the companies have helped us make steady progr ess in upgrading our quality of life. Together, we have created coal jobs for our families. And we also were provided coal severance dollars for our projects. These projects would not have been funded but for the coal industry generating th ose tax dollars from the value of severed coal. Now we are faced with a new war, a war which will take away our opportunity for a better life. Subjective decision making has occurred. And because it has, it has created an economic crisis for Harlan County and other counties in this region. Why, I ask, does the EPA make decisions based on conductivity testing that is not logical? Coal companies have a good record of stewardship of their permitted land. They have1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 50 taken the extraction proces s seriously. But they cannot tolerate a moving set of rules. Our mountain streams and rivers are cleaner today than they have been in years past. Ask the thriving wildlife, ask the fish. If they could speak they would tell you they love where they live right

now. Coal has been our eco nomic engine for the region, and coal plays a major role in America's growth. And I ask you to give our families a break, come to the table, discuss the issues, and work through the process. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay. Next speaker, please. PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is -- is it on? MS. MacPHERSON: It will come up. Keep -- keep talking. It will adjust. Go ahead. PUBLIC SPEAKER: (Indicating). MS. MacPHERSON: Yes, it is on. PUBLIC SPEAKER: Yes. My name is R.D. "Doc" Marshall, M-a-r-s-h-a-l-l, Floyd County Judge Executive. I come here tonight with mixed feelings, feelings that go back a lon g way. We all come from communities that we know were founded, were1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 51 built, were promoted with c oal. I happen to have one in my county that prospered and was noted across the United States of America in the 40s, 50s, and 60s by the name of Wheelwright , Kentucky. It was a community that had everything, but they had it because of coal. Coal made it possible. Other communities followed. Twen ty years ago, 20 years ago, there were 15 3 mines actively mining coal in Floyd County, Kentucky. Today, I have five, five mines that are struggling big-time. And if the EPA has anything to do, those five will disappear before this year is over. We need answers. We need plenty of them. Why are we here? We' re here simply because of three, the big three. Not what Washington considers the big three. But we're here for jobs, we're here for families, and we're here for communities. And, by golly, I will come back. I was here three years ago. If it takes three more years, I'll be here again and voice my support. I'll always stand up for our people in coal. I believe they are the backbo ne of this country. And when those lights grow dim, brother, they are going to find out right quick. (Applause). Let us stand together. We've got a great motto in the1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 52 Commonwealth of Kentucky, United We Stand. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay. Thank you. Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 21: I'm speaker 21, Andy Willis, A-n-d-y W-i-l-l-i-s. I'm going to begin by quoting from the United States Constitution. The Tenth Amendment states, "The power is not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor pr ohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." A nd William Douglas, the longest-serving U.S. Supreme Court Justice, said, "The Constitution is not ne utral. It was designed to take the government off the backs of people." (Applause). Congress took it upon itsel f to establish the U.S. EPA to enforce the law s of the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act. The U.S. EPA has since overstepped its bounds by passing regulations which are not in the best interests of the states or their people. Now I want to q uote from a great American, Thomas Jefferson. He said, "The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 53 free, neither restraining n or aiding them in their pursuits." He also said, "We were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread." He also said, "Most bad government has grown out of too much government." And, finally, "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking ca re of them." Now, I know there are some people in this crowd who would probably love the idea of the government taking care of t hem. But as for me, I hereby request that the U.S. EPA stop trying to take care of me by ou tlawing the mining and use of coal. Thank you. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 22: I'm speaker 22, Eric Chance, C-h-a-n-c-e, with Appalachi an Voices. Thank you for the opportunity to speak here today. I believe that the EP A should reaffirm their objections to these 36 inadequate permits. The State has failed to do an adequate reasonable potential analysis and has failed to include permit limits adequate to protect water quality. The EPA is not the one holding up these permits.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 54 They are simply trying to bring up the quality of permits issued in Kentucky to the standard of other states like West Virginia. The party truly responsible for holding the se permits up is the Kentucky Energy and Environ ment Cabinet, because they are not capable of writing a permit that would require companies to mine responsibly and do it without ruining water qu ality. The Cabinet is so starved for funding and beholden to the coal industry that they are inca pable of regulating it. In addition to their inabil ity to issue adequate permits, they have proven their inability to regulate coal by setting inadequate bond amounts, failing to list streams in the coal fields on the 303(d) list of impaired streams, allowing more mines to be covered under the general permit than there should be, failing to develop TMDLs for the streams actually listed as impaired, not reviewi ng discharge monitoring reports, failing to do enforcement actions on water quality problem s they have identified, failing to ensure water quality and other data submitted by the companies is actually true, failing to even know the most basic information like the number and locatio n of all the facilities1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 55 they are supposed to be regulating. Finally, the permits at issue here represent a small percent of th e mining permits issued by the State, because more than 2,000 mines are covered under the general p ermit, which is not at issue. As active min es across the state are idled, approval of th ese permits would not create jobs because natural gas is cheaper than coal. (Audience members respond) MS. MacPHERSON: I wo uld ask everyone to please show the same courte sy to all the speakers that are speaking here toni ght. Please. We are not going to start. Thank you. Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 23: My n ame is Pallavi Podapati, P-o-d-a-p-a-t-i, and I'm the 23rd speaker. I'm a concerned citizen from Hazard, Kentucky. I've lived in Hazard, Kentucky since I was three years old. I'm 21 no w. And I don't want to call anywhere else home. Of course, I feel a natural desire to protect the place where my family and loved ones live. However, I find that laws and regulations meant to protect the health and safety of my comm unity aren't being enforced or are under attack. And corporations with no1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 56 ethical ties or oblig ations to uphold the well-being of my community are given enough leeway to do anything to increase their profit margins. So I feel compelled to speak here and draw attention to the fact that these permits denied by the EPA are indicative of the regard. Or, to speak quite truthfully, the complete disregard of these companies towards my community, my family, and myself. It is unacceptable t hat Kentucky's DOW accepted permits that h ad insufficient data to establish reasonable potential analyses. I find it necessary to state that there is a reason these permits were denied. Curre nt permits in Kentucky are inadequate and aren't e ven being enforced by the State. (Audience members respond) MS. MacPHERSON: The next speaker, please. PUBLIC SPEAKER: My n ame is Haven King, H-a-v-e-n K-i-n-g. I'm the County Clerk for Perry County, Hazard, Kentucky. I'm also the President of Coal Mining Our Future. Now, I've often wonde red and thought about what the EPA executive in Texas, when he said that, you know, "the way that we got their attention is when we would come into a1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 57 Mediterranean town and Turk ish people and the first five men we would com e to we would crucify them." So the way -- I don't think you all would do that. But that's one way. He said, "That town was easy to handle after that." So what you all have done, you have t ook the thing with conductivity. One lady, named Madeline O'Hare, took prayer out of school in this country. One lady, named Lisa Jackson, is going to stop coal mining if we don't stop her. (Applause). Her name is Lisa Jackson, and she is totally against our people. And the EPA, you like your conductivity. Don't take my word for it. When you go back, when you all go back, the drinking water that you drink, go ahead and do the conductivity on it and see what it is. The EPA wants the permits that we do at 300. My drinking water in Hazard, Kentucky, at Chavies, where I live, is 725 coming out of the Hazard district. Now, I guess that's crucifixion. I mean, you are really trying to -- poverty you are going to see when our people can't -- have to choose between power, they have to choose between medicine and food. Now, you're going to see what poverty is when you see people go hungry and when1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 58 you see people losing their jobs. There's hundreds and hundreds. We've actually lost 1,500 jobs in our two counties in the last three months. Those jobs, sixty to $65,000 per year. We're losing those, and it is because -- now, when people die because they can't provide for their family, they are going to get rowdy and they are going to get rough. But whenever they die, I want you to think about th at when you make these decisions, because that is going to be on you whenever that happens. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Okay. Next. SPEAKER NO. 26: I'm speaker number 26. My name is Maxine Stanford. (Audience members respond) MS. MacPHERSON: Plea se be courteous. Thank you. Go ahead again. SPEAKER NO. 26: My n ame is Maxine Stanford. And I'm concerned about all the jobs that we have lost up in eastern Kentucky . Our coal miners have lost jobs. And when the coal goes down, it also affects their communities there, and they are starting to lose jobs. Businesses are going to start closing. And we have -- I'm a coal miner's1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 59 wife, and -- and I ha ve brothers that work in the coal industry. And t hat's our livelihood. I mean, that's what we live o n. That's what we make a living here today. We ne ed our jobs and we want to do our jobs right. We want to have clean water. But if we can't -- we don't have clean water when the streams, the strai ght pipes go in. And we want to clean them up with coal severance money. But if we haven't got that coal severance money, we can't cleanup the streams. We can't stop the sewage going into the streams. We can't stop the runoffs of t he agriculture, the fertilizer, the insecticide s, the salt off your roads you treat your roads with. That raises conductivity. And what do we do on it? Do we leave the roads where we get killed every day? But if you check it when -- conductivity in your water when the salt is applied to the road, the runoff, your road -- of the road, the water, goes back to the streams, it affects your quality of water. But yet, I mean, you know, our city water, it's -- you know, it is better than what we -- you know, our city water is not as good as the water coming out of these mine waters. You want1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 60 it three to 500 to be acceptable, no more than five. And we -- we -- most mines can't do it that way. But we can drin k our city water, and it is 700 and something. We can drink our bottled water, you know, 500, 600, or 1,000, you know, but it is acceptable. So we need your help. We need help getting our jobs back. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Thank you. Before the next speaker, I would like to send the next group of speakers, numbered 31 to 50, if you can go to the back of the room to the man holding up the number 2. Thank you. PUBLIC SPEAKER: My n ame is Cordis "Cuzz" Bishop, C-o-r-d-i-s C -u-z-z B-i-s-h-o-p. People of Appalachia are treated like anuses. Normally I would say someth ing else; okay? Perhaps we need to put some thought into acting the same way as the A frican-Americans did in the 60s in order to get their civil rights. I am from that area and saw what they had to do to get their civil rights. Maybe that is what we need to do. Appalachian miners and thei r families are being discriminated because you a re taking away our jobs1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 61 and our civil rights. Our U.S. Constitution says we have the right to work. You, the EPA, are taking away these rights. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Okay. And if I can remind you to say your speaker number first, that would help me out. SPEAKER NO. 27: Twenty-seven. MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. SPEAKER NO. 27: Hell o. My name is Mark Miller. I live in Pr estonsburg, and I work here in Pikeville for Whayne Sup ply Company. We're the distributor for Cater pillar equipment and construction machinery, pro vide parts and service support to our coal customers. I come today to repre sent our 160 employees at the Pikeville branch, wh ose jobs depend on the coal market, and to show support for the miners of our region. We are full of concern and uncertainty about our future because of the regulatory ambush on the co al industry by the EPA. Your changing of the permit requirements in April of 2010 has eff ectively strangled our industry. Why were only si x states singled out or targeted for conductivity? And then why was it1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 62 reduced to just Kentucky and West Virginia? Why are your guidelines only fo r the coal industry? As the rest of the world grows their coal-generating electric ca pacity at a record pace, the United States is hard at work shutting down all of our coal plants, resulting in massive layoffs, mine shutdowns, do wnsizes, and company closures. I personally believe that God provided us with an abundant s upply of natural resources, including coal, to power our nation's economic engine. We move mountains and we build roads, make usable flatland for b usiness development and recreational areas. We use the same machinery and the same earthmoving techniques to mine coal. We do so responsibly and in compliance with mining regulations written to ensure we reclaim all mines to acceptable standards. We gather today on top of a 14 million cubic yard fill of the original Leviza Fork of the Big Sandy River. The cut-through project enabled Pikeville to grow and prosper. Gentlemen, let us con tinue working. Issue our permits. We stro ngly encourage you to withdraw your objecti ons. Thank you.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 63 (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Okay. Next speaker. SPEAKER NO. 30: Good evening. I'm speaker number 30. My name is Susan Kirkland. And I don't guess I would h ave permission to have a 15 second power off; could we? To have the lights turned off and let them fee l what it is like to have the power turned off. (Applause). And, by the way, just to let Mr. Ji m know, D.C. is also powered by coal. To continue on that, since I don't guess they are going to turn the power off, coal -- coal jobs are our jobs. They are energy. They are energy for this country. Tw enty-four percent of Kentucky coal powers this country. But it is not just the energy. It is the railroad jobs. It is the truck driver jobs. It is the jobs that get our money and our goods to our people . (Applause). And when you start cutting coal , you cut business expenses, you cut power, you cut everything. Our expenses go up. You take these people's jobs, not only are you taking their jobs but you are also making it more expensive to live, more expensive to buy food, because they h ave to pay for higher1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 64 power, higher power b ills. Their home power bills go up. Everything goes up when you cut coal. And you think that it is an environmental issue. They are doing everything they can to meet and exceed EPA regula tions. And it is like one of the prior speakers said, no t only do they meet the regulations but now you're changing the rules. It is not fair. And all it is, is an all-out war. And these people's are claiming war on you guys because they want their jobs, they want their livelihoods, and they want their chance to raise their families. And if you cut it, then you are cutting half of the c ountry. There is nothing else I can say about it. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Than k you. The next speaker, please. PUBLIC SPEAKER: Yes. My name is Charles Baird. I am President, Chairman I should say, of Coal Operators and Associat es based in Pikeville, Kentucky. First I would like to thank all of the state officials, particularly Sec retary Peters and Bruce Scott, and I thank all the folks that have attended here, the public o fficials. I don't1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 65 think you have seen a single public official oppose this. These are our elected representatives. You had the Speaker of the House here, you had the maj ority leader, you had the two United States Senators, you had a Congressman, you had the Magistrates, you had Judges. You will not see that anywhere. And they all have the same message. And I think we need to thank them for being here. (Applause). I have already used up half of my time there, but. Secretary Peters used the word "arbitrary." Really what the EPA has don e is not arbitrary. It is illegal. They have completely ignored the APA, which is the Administrative Procedures Act that deals with regulatory matters. No public comment. It had immediately taken ef fect. No notice to anybody. "Here it is , boys. You do it. If you don't like it, you can kiss it." Now, that is the Obam a way of doing things. And I am not blaming Region 4, by any means. But their bosses are cont rolling the situation. And it is basically the attitude, "Stop me if you can. Until you stop me, I am going to do whatever it takes to stop coal." And we're going to fight back, and I know there is a hearing on that on1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 66 July 14th in Washington. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the environment. Let's face th e facts. If they, EPA and these folks back here, were concerned about the environment, they would be looking at straight pipes that are here by the tens of thousands. If they were concerned about the environment in our streams, pollution of our s treams, they would be looking at the millions of gallons of sewage that is placed in the streams ev ery week. And they don't. Thank you. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 32: I'm speaker number 32, Gary Bentley. And before I get started, I just want everybody that is here, we' re all here for the same reasons, to look around at the politicians that were here earlier that have decided to leave and don't want to stand around and listen to what we have to say. Think about that around election time. Look at the politici ans -- there are some that stayed, and I apprecia te it. They are here for us. Look at the ones that got up and left after they spoke. That is where we need to be looking. But I am here today as a Kentucky coal miner,1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 67 a father, a concerned citizen. And I am here for the same reasons as everybo dy. The people of Appalachia are scared right now. We only have one source of income, one indus try, and that's coal. Without that right no w, Appalachia will not survive. These communities will turn into small ghost towns. Since November, I've watche d hundreds of my coal workers, thousands of our local coal miners lose their jobs. Now six, nine months later, a year, these people are faci ng losing their homes. They are struggling to supp ort their families. These people and these coal miners, we have been let down by our polit icians, by the coal corporations we work for and the coal organizations. If everybod y would just work together and try to make this work, we would all still be working. Granted, these coal corporations wouldn't make the billions of dollars that they make every year. But us, we would still have our jobs and be able to support our families. The people of our com munities and our coal miners and our local coal officials, we need to take action. We need to send a message to our politicians and to these large companies, these1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 68 CEOs, and let them know tha t we are not going to stop until they make this right, until we have our jobs back. We need this industry to survive. Look back at the community members and the miners in the 1970s and the union wars. They took pride in this area. They took pride in their jobs. They stood up for what they believed in. Let's send a message to these politicians, to these CEOs, to the fe deral government, to the state government. We will not back down. We will fight for our communi ties. And, most importantly, we're going to fight for ou r families and make sure the coal industry stay s around. Let's show everybody the real faces of coal and what the people of Appalachia stand for an d what we can do. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay. Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 31: My name is Rusty Rowe, R-u-s-t-y R-o-w-e. And I'm speaker number 31. I'm here tonight to r epresent JMP Coal Holdings and the over 400 empl oyees that depend on coal to support their families that work with our organization. For 30 years, I have worked in the coal industry. And just like a lot of you, the only1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 69 reason I get up in the morning and go out to work is to provide food, clothin g, and a place to live for my family. But now our ability to provide for our families is under attac k. Many of the people attacking us don't ev en live here. Over the years, we ha ve worked through many changes in regulations, pol icies, and procedures. But there is always a path that could have been taken to lead to a mining permit. That has all changed now. Under t his Administration, the EPA is choking us to death. They have become involved in, basically, every enviro nmental aspect of the mining industry. The y use delay tactics and won't give us specific written comments so that we can address deficiencies. Last summer one of our mining permits was one of those 36 permits. It was actually one of t he 19 in September that was objected to that the Kentuc ky Division of Water approved. The federal EPA objected to it. They used the same comments to object to all 19 of those permits. Earlier I told you why I get up every morning, to provide for my family. Few things in life get more personal than when someone, and that someone is your government, is trying to take away1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 70 your livelihood, trying to take away your ability to provide for your family, for the people you love. It has become clear to me that the Administration and the EPA do not care about miners and their families. My only hope at this point is that come January we get a new President and we get a new EPA. And that is our only hope. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Than k you. The next speaker. PUBLIC SPEAKER: Ladies -- oh, wow. Ladies and Gentlemen, my name is Jimmy Hall. And I want to thank the miners. I want to thank the EPA. You know, we all have got rules. They give me this piece of paper. They told me I have got two minutes to speak. Some of our high-dollar politicians get up there an d tell me about the golf courses they have buil t here and there. They overrun their t wo minutes. I live in Letcher Cou nty, Kentucky. Okay? And it is up there in Deane, around the Deane area. And I don't see no golf courses. All I see is what I had seen when I w as a kid. The same old buildings. The same dust. You know, why can't1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 71 you just do something right? Why can't you just keep the money in Letcher County? Why can't you take and give us water? Why can't you pay for taps for these people? All we want is the water. We don't give a heck about a golf course. What are we asking for? I don't like repeating myself. I hate to beg. I hat e to thank everybody, shake their hand. And I know we are not doing nothing. Because the only thing they care about is who is going to get elected. I don't care if a Republican gets elected. I don't care if a Democrat gets elected. We need water. My ne ighbor has got two babies that can't even take a bath come September when they go back to school . It ain't time yet. I've got 27 minutes. The next time I speak, I know what I have got to do, go to every one of these meetings that I can find until somebody listens to me. Why can't you do what is right? Follow the rules. Follow t he rules. If they tell you two minutes, take your two minutes and go home or go back and sit do wn. (Audience members respond). No, I'll go home . I'm coming home. This is my home. I w as born and raised here. Thank you.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 72 (Audience members respond) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Everyone ... (Audience members respond) SPEAKER NO. 33: I'm number 33. MS. MacPHERSON: No, no. Please wait. Yeah. No. Excuse me. Ever yone is entitled to make their comments. Please show the same courtesy to everyone. Thank you. Everyone, we want to try to hear from as many people as possible tonight. SPEAKER NO. 33: I'm number 33. My name is David Moss, spelled M-o-s-s . And I'm the Vice President of the Kentu cky Coal Association. I am here tonight voi cing my opposition to the EPA's objections to 36 mining permits here in Kentucky. I find it appalling the EPA has continued to try to c urb coal mining production here in eastern Kentucky using political science versus sound science. The EPA originally stated in their interim guidance r egulations that they would limit coal companies to a benchmark of 500 microsiemens in regards to conductivity, which would affect six Appalachia n coal states, Kentucky being included. This was issued on April 1st of 2010. After much consideration, the EPA decided1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 73 that their final guidance document should only be issued to two Appalac hian coal states, shockingly West Virginia and Kentucky. Let us analyze why the White House and the EPA decided to make this decision. The final guidan ce on conductivity for the Appalachian coal basin removed Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania from the original interim guidance documents. Why leave off all three significant coal mining states if these new guidelines are intended to protect clean water? The EPA realized that these three states are key important battleground states in the upcoming presidential election this November. Could the EPA have been instructed to not harm the re-election of President Ob ama? I think you should ask the 42 percent uncommitted in the room here tonight. Coal mining creates o pportunities for over 70,000 folks here in the Commonwealth. I think it is important to understand that every region of the state is interdependent on one another. Because of coal mining here in eastern Kentucky, especially here in Pike County, cheap electricity is produced and Louisville and Lexington prosper. Because of the coal m ining in eastern Kentucky,1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 74 mining machinery companies, like Whayne Supply, Brandeis, and Bryan E quipment, all companies based in Louisville, are able to employ thousands around the state. So why are we shocked this has come to be? President Obama in every year of his presidency has tried to ratchet back fossil fuel energy production here in the United States. Oil and natural gas, especially coa l, have all had targets on our backs since day one. So speaking tonight in Pikeville is another hur dle I am willing to jump through to get t he President's attention that coal matters in the U nited States. God Bless America. And burn coal. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 36: Mada m Speaker, I'm number 36. My name is Rocky Hudson, H-u-d-s-o-n. I want to thank you so much for coming to our beautiful land. I wish that I had been able to feed you before you came to this ass embly. By the time I get through talking, I thin k you are going to be able to feel the love. I'm a real love machine. I'm 78 years old. And I represent the Hazard, Perry County senior citizens. Without our coal miners, we would not have the quality of life1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 75 that we have. For the past 40 years, the coal miners in Perry Count y, Knott County, Leslie County, Letcher County, Breathitt County, they have supplied us with the quality of life that we would have never had before. And I'm so glad that the EPA was able to c ome to this beautiful land today. I thank God f or the beautiful sunshine that he provided. You were able to see these mountains that we love so much. You have been experiencing a little piece of paradise today. For 78 years, I've lived in this wonderful land. I brought a 92-year-old senior citizen with me. And she said for me to tell you that she is not a senior citizen, she is a recycled teenager. (Applause). As Moses said to Pharaoh, when Moses said to Pharaoh, "Let my people go, " I'm going to ask the EPA to let our people go back to work. (Applause). In a lit tle town like Hazard, Kentucky, we have a hospita l that was made on reclaimed mountaintop remov al. Without this hospital, I would not have been able to reach my 78th year of birth. I was rushed to this hospital in the emergency room, and they saved my life. Thank you.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 76 (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: The next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 36: Hello? MS. MacPHERSON: Hello. SPEAKER NO. 36: My name is Alex Desha, speaker number 36. I am a Sierra Club member. But tonight I speak to you as a proud Kentuckian. My grandfather was a deep miner in Pike County. And I want a futur e here for my family and myself. I have a vision of a future where people are valued over prof its, where our water is safe to drink, and wh ere I won't fear to let children play in the creeks that I enjoy so much. And I want an economy that is as diverse and as rich as the people of easte rn Kentucky. I want to live in a place where our future is valued as much as our proud past. In order for this to happen, we need leadership that is willing to protect our most valuable resource in eastern Kentucky, the people. The Kentucky Department of Water should stand up and protect the people of eastern Kentucky by complying with and en forcing the Clean Water Act, a law designed to protect people. Coal companies should be good stewards of the land and the people1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 77 whose jobs they are respons ible for. They can provide good jobs and be good stewards by mining in a responsible manner and investing in proper reclamation of the land. They should be doing this instead of fighting the EPA, the agency charged with protecting the land and the people. We shouldn't be forced to choose between jobs and healthy communities. We sh ouldn't have to choose between clean water and fee ding our families. Few other areas have had to mak e that choice. It is not the people's fault. Our state leadership is failing us. What the y are being asked to do, which is to ensure we have sufficient clean water protections for healthy com munities, is not hard or unobtainable. We're pro ud of our past here in Kentucky, and let's be prou d of our future. I call on our state leaders, and that is our politicians and our coal companies alike, to stop bickering and to get to work. Clean water benefits protect -- clean w ater benefits everyone. Thank you. (Audience members respond) MS. MacPHERSON: Than k you. Thank you. SPEAKER NO. 38: Jare d Arnett, President and CEO of the Southeast Kentuc ky Chamber of Commerce,1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 78 speaker number 38. I speak on behalf of over 500 businesses in eastern Kentucky and eight counties and nearly 25,000 employees that rely every day on this industry. They are all asking me one question, and that is: At what cost? As business people we make decisions looking at a benefit and a cost. And the only benefit we are hearing from you is that we are going to have clean drinking water and fish will have a safe envir onment and that we will have clean water to swim in . Well, I don't think that is quantifiable. I think it is an emotional benefit. But what we can quantify is the cost. What we can look at is in the most recent 19 objections to these p ermits, we've lost the potential of $128 million in revenue for our state government. We've lost the potential for 3,800 jobs. And these are good paying jobs that feed our families and feed economic activity into eastern Kentucky. I am not an advocate for unhealthy drinking water or for reckless damag e to the environment. But I am an advocate for the benefits derived from mountaintop development sit es. I'm an advocate for businesses and our peop le. I believe our coal1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 79 companies are mining more responsibly than they ever have before. When I look around, there's more benefits than just the d irect benefits. Where are our most beautiful housing developme nts? Above the flood plain on mountaintop development sites. Where is our airport that our commun ity and our Chamber is working so hard to pr ovide commercial air service for that will be funded by coal severance dollars? On a reclaimed mountaintop development site. Where is the most con ducive habitat for our growing elk population of the tourism industry? On a reclaimed mountaintop development site. Our spec buildings and industri al parks used to recruit new industry? On mountaintop development sites. At some point many years from now we will be ready for this shift. But to do it now will prove disastrous for our people. Our small businesses will close their doors. My question is to ask: At what cost? (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Okay. Before the next speaker -- stay up -- you can stay up there.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 80 I just want to call t he next group, numbers 60 to 80, if you could please go in the back and meet with our staff. Also, if there is anyone who would like to make a comment tonight who was not registered, please do so now at the registration table to get a number. Okay. Thank you. PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you. My name is David Wilder, D-a-v-i-d W-i-l-d-e -r. And I'm a concerned citizen from Paintsville, Kentucky. And I would like to s ay that as coal miners, we care about the mountains . We care about the streams. We also care abou t development. If you will look at these be autiful mountains out here, they are beautiful to look at. You can't build on them. You can't do anythin g with them. We as individuals here, we deserv e the right to be able to develop our mountains and develop our properties. We also deserve freedom. Property owners should be treated fa irly and be able to do with their property as they see fit. We also want the EPA to treat ever yone fairly and consistently. I can stand up here a nd talk, but I don't think I can say anyth ing that hasn't already been said much more eloquently by the -- some of the political people up here. But I am here as a1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 81 concerned citizen. And I want the EPA to realize that we need to be treated equally and fairly, as all the other states are. The EPA should also realize that they need to follow the procedures. If they want to change some regulations, there are procedures that they need to go through, the comment period and some of the other things that they have to follow that they are not following at a ll. They are just feeding us exactly wh at they want. And another concern I have is where are they getting these numbers that they come up with? You know, these aren't an ything that we're allowed to see anyplace. That's -- th at's no way, to just pull numbers out and feed t hem to us. And I could tell you what you have done here, by what you are pushing on us right here right now, you have woken a sleeping giant. The coal miners in Kentucky and West Virginia will band together. And I will guarantee you, you will hear from us in November. The EPA is just a puppet for President Obama. But we're going to show you what for come November. (Applause) PUBLIC SPEAKER: My n ame is Chris, C-h-r-i-s,1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 82 Haverly, H-a-v-e-r-l-y. I own C & C Mining, active permit number 848807 8. I had a prepared statement, but after hearing some of the comments made I know I couldn't get it in with two minutes, so I'm just going to fire from the hip here and say what I think. There's nothing worse than someone coming up here and misinforming peopl e about comments. Everyone has a right to the ir opinion, the right to state anything they want. But to say that the mining industry is not regulated or the permitting department doesn't do an adequate job is ridiculous. I can assure y ou I -- I do what most people wouldn't even consid er mining. I reclaim gob piles. And it to ok me over a year to get a permit to reclaim a gob pile, which was actually cleaning up a mess th at had been there since 1940 and cost me $100,000 in eng ineering fees. I put up a $65,000 cash bond for a 13 acre site for it to be hydroseeded and reclaimed when I am finished. So for these people, for whatever reason they want to come up and s ay that the mining industry gets away with this and tha t, you don't get away with anything in the mining industry. My1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 83 grandfather was a miner. My father was a miner. My family has over 100 year s in the coal industry. My dad worked 47 years in the UMWA and never had a lost time accident. He die d at 82 a happy man because he knew he got up and went to work every day and he earned everything he got. And that is all every person in t his building wants, is a chance to go to work. (Applause). I have no animosity t owards you people. I have no animosity towards t he EPA. Because I know they are people that abused the privileges and rights to whatever they do. But I can guarantee you, the mining industry is the most regulated industry in this country, making it the most regulated industry in the world. I was fined 1,600 bucks for a coal truck tracking dirt out on the highway. I was fined 900 bucks for a loader having a taillight broken o ut. My problem. My issue. I paid it. But don't keep people from doing things that I k now is to raise their families and to feed their families. We deserve the right to work. Thank you. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 39: Hell o. I'm speaker number 39. My name is Dennis Hatfield. That's1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 84 D-e-n-n-i-s. And I think they know how to spell Hatfield. I live in Louisa, Ken tucky, and I'm a third generation coal miner, and I am a concerned citizen who supports the mi ning of coal here. Because I live and work her e, I know how important these coal jobs are. I know because my family and I are every bit citizens as much as those who oppose mining. It is not about citizens versus the coal industry. We know what it takes to survive. We happen to be citizens who support coal. We're proud to be part of it. And this is not a debate about wanting to have clean water in a living environment, because we all live here and want that too. But I also know that poverty can do far more damage than our regulated coal mining environment can. You cannot regulate poverty. You cannot diminish its impacts. Without coal mining, most of our local tax base will disappear. We would lose the severance taxes that help our counties pay their bills. Our quality of life would change. We wouldn't have the police and fire protection, the water extensions, the things that give us a standard of living. We would lose those comforts that are her e only because the coal1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 85 company economy supports them. I drive on Route 23 every day. And I know that jobs depend on coal mining here. I respect the rights of others to disagree. But this is more than just a battle about mountaintop mining. This is about all coal mining. These regulations will stop underground and prep plants and everyth ing in every aspect of coal. No one really object s to being held to a reasonable standard. We un derstand and we want to abide by the laws. But you can't shutdown a coal industry. By the way, my day job is General Manager of CAM Mining, with 400 employ ees and 400 families. And I speak for them as well. Thank you. MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Okay. We are over here. PUBLIC SPEAKER: Hello. I am Bobby May, Chairman of the Repub lican Party for Buchanan County, across the bo rder in Virginia. And I'm here to night to support our hard-working coal min ers. I'm proud to be the son of a coal miner and the fat her of a coal miner.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 86 And I'm going to say someth ing to all of these miners assembled here tonig ht that you are not going to hear from Barack H ussein Obama. And that is, God bless a coal miner. (Applause). And, by the way, if anyone is not aware of this, "Hussein" in Arabic means "I hate coal miners." And, folks, I want to say this to you tonight, to anybody that th inks that coal mining is ugly, just wait until you see poverty. (Applause). This is a war on coal. Barack Hussein Obama declared economic war on the coalfields of Kentucky, Virginia, West Virginia. But this fall we need to declare and win a political war. We pu t Lisa Jackson on the unemployment rolls instead of the hard-working coal miners. (Applause). But, folks, be not deceived. Lisa Jackson is not the problem. The man that appointed her is the problem. (Applause). And if you are not part of the solution here tonight and t his fall, in November, then you are part of the problem. According to information I got from the internet, the 19 most recent objections alone are estimated to have cost Kentucky 3,800 coal-related jobs and more than $123 million in coal severance1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 87 taxes alone. My advi ce to the EPA would be approve these permits. Tur n coal miners loose to go back to work. And, man, we need the Social Security, the nationa l budget, and so on. And so please let our coal miners go back to work by approving these permits. Thank you. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 64: My n ame is Mike Hansel. I am speaker number 64. This morning we heard a lot of rhetoric about clean water, we heard a lot of rhetoric about coal mining, we heard a lot of rhetoric, period. If you want to know what these people think, all you have to do is listen to the applause, listen to the boo's. If you want to know who is for coal, all you have to do is look in these chairs. You can count it. It is real easy to count. Remember what my grandmother said this morning, "It doesn't take long. It is as plain as the nose on your face, son. Let's see how smart you are." Okay. I want to give you some -- I am going to give you a few quo tes that the government needs to remember. Thomas Jeffer son: "He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. To compel a1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 88 man to furnish funds for th e propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from tho se who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Most bad government has grown out of too much government. A wise and frugal gov ernment, which shall restrain men from injuring one anoth er, which shall leave them otherwise free to regu late their own pursuits of industry and improvement , and shall not take from the mouth of the labor and bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. History, in general, only i nforms us of what bad government is. To take from one because it is thought that his own indust ry and that of his father's has acquired too m uch, in order to spare to others, who, or wh ose fathers, have not exercised equal industry an d skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car. But if he has a university education, he could steal the whole train. I don't pity any man who does hard work worth doing.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 89 I admire him. I pity the creature who does not work, at whichever end of t he social scale he may regard himself as being. T he first requisite of a good citizen in this republ ic of ours is he shall be willing and able to pull his own weight. The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. S ometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants." Thomas Jefferson. And here is one from Mike Hansel. "The definition of an elephant: An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications." Thank you. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 67: I'm speaker number 67. My name is Erin Savage, S-a-v- a-g-e. I'm a water quality specialist with Appalachian Voices. Since 2010, Appalachian Voices has brought cases against three of Kentucky's largest coal companies, ICG, Fraser Creek, and Nally & Hamilton, for nearly 36,000 violations of the Clean Water Act. These violations include falsified discharge monitor ing reports as well as substantive permit limit vi olations. After these companies began actua lly testing their discharge and reporting accurately, they reported numbers1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 90 such as 28 milligrams per liter for maganese, 10 milligrams per liter for iron, 500 milligrams per liter for TSS, and a pH as high as 10. These violations were neither ide ntified by the State of Kentucky nor were adequatel y dealt with once the State was made aware of the problems we found. The State is clearly either unable or unwilling to properly enforce the Clean Water Act. Therefore, the EPA must intervene. The permits in question here admit to having inadequate baseline data for reasonable potential analysis. This hearing is not about disallowing mining in Kentucky. This hearing is solely about water pollution permits. We must remember, several thousand general permits were approved in 2009 through the general permit. The number in question here represe nts only a small percentage. Protecting our water quality is essential to the health of the residents here. Living near mountaintop removal, people are 50 percent more likely to die of cancer and 42 percent more likely to have children born with birth defects. The EPA is not destroying coal jobs. Coal jobs in Appalachia have increased by 6 percent since 2009. The demand for coal is decreasing due1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 91 to competition from other e nergy sources, such as natural gas. Coal now provides only 36 percent of the nation's electricity. What Kentucky truly needs is a dive rsified economy. (Audience members respond) MS. MacPHERSON: Than k you. Thank you. SPEAKER NO. 66: Okay . My name is Matt Lawson. I'm number 66. Here I work for Appalachian Voices. We represent several thousand members around the ce ntral and southern Appalachian region. I'm going to, more or less, throw away my script because I have had a couple of chances to speak before and just start by saying that, you know, the cell phone in my pocket, about a third of the electricity, the electrons that went into that to charge it, ca me from coal. And I have no interest, nor does my organization, nor does the EPA, I am certain, have any interest in making that electricity go away. We appreciate that -- that electricity. And I want to say tha nk you sincerely to the miners who have made that possible, who put their lives at risk going undergr ound doing very hard work to make that possible. And I in no way and1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 92 nor does my organization or those we work with want to put you out of work. That is not our intention at all. And -- but there has been so much misinformation that we have heard from some of our local political lead ers here, that it is really -- well, it makes me feel for the EPA, in a way. You have been i mbued, I think in some people's minds, with these almost God-like powers of, you know, how -- of how much impact you can have on electricity, on people's jobs. And in reality, you know, this is the free market that is driving most of this. And because of that, I think that we just need to get back to what we really need. You know, EPA, what w e're talking about, is 36 permits out of hundreds, thousands that have been approved across the Ap palachia. And if you were to back up -- ba ck down now, that would not create one single job, beca use it would not create one bit of demand for your -- more coal. All it would do is give a gr eater advantage to the most irresponsible operators who do the most damage to the water in the area. So please just keep doing your job. And thanks for being here. (Audience members respond)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 93 MS. MacPHERSON: Settle down. Settle down. AUDIENCE MEMBERS: That is a joke. That is joke. MS. MacPHERSON: Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 71: I am speaker number 71, Frank Thornsbury, T-h-o-r-n -s-b-u-r-y. And I am just a concerned citizen from Johnson County. To the various offices of t he EPA, guests, my fellow Kentuckians, today we have heard various means and consequences of denying permits for coal mining in eastern Kentucky. However, in my allotted time, I would like to call attention to the very personal side of systemically strangling the coal industry. Take my 23-year-old friend Aaron Meek, for instance, whose job was just taken because of the EPA's arbitr ary and inconsistent policies. He, his wife, Codi, and his 3-year-old son, Jacobi, depended on Aaron's job as a surface miner to keep -- to meet their needs. While talking to him before I came here, he went to pains to express that his coal mining job provided an excellent quali ty of life and that though dangers existed, tho se dangers paled in comparison to the love he has for his family and the desire to provide for them. He was also quick1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 94 to explain that what he did in the mines and the way he did it is the Americ an way. And I agree with him. To go out, work, and provide, always driven for the love for God and country and the idea that if he works hard enough Jacobi, his son, will face a brighter future . In short, coal is the Meek family's lif eblood. It is all of our lifeblood here in eastern Kentucky, and that has been taken away already for Aaron. Thus, to cease the existence of the coal industry is to pry away the American dream from the hands of hard-working men and women in eastern Kentucky. Not to mention that Jacobi, growing up see ing his father work so hard and have his job taken away by big government, that will leave a mark on Jacobi, and that mark says that hard wo rk has no reward. And that's the greatest c onsequence of all. And the bottom line is that if you take our jobs, in November we will t ake yours. Thank you. (Audience members sta nd. Applause.) MS. MacPHERSON: Than k you. The next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 68: Yes. My name is David Gent, G-e-n-t. I'm speaker number 68. And tonight I'm -- I work for a company1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 95 called Xinergy. We have jobs in Virginia, West Virginia, and Kentucky. And because of the regulations that you guys h ave put upon us, we have lost so many workers. I don't know exactly the number. I'm the foreman for the job in Virginia. But I came over here to speak because we have people coming to my job that have lost their jobs in Kentucky, West Virginia. They know me. I've been around. Everybody calls me "chicken man." They say, "Chicke n man, I need a job. I lost my job. I bought a new house. I bought a new car." And the reason why they have done that is because you gu ys are not using common sense. (Applause). If you don't know, common sense says that you w ill use sound and prudent judgment based on a s imple perception of the situation or facts. The facts are, if you don't release those permits a lot of these people right here will not have a job. And can -- let me ask you something. How much coal have you mined in Atlanta, Georgia? How much coal have you mined in Washington, DC? (Applause). Can you stand there at that door tonight and stand there and as these people go by you reach out your ha nd and say, "I'm sorry.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 96 We're going to take your jo b." And that's what you are going to do if you don't turn loose of these permits. Another thing, one more thi ng I have got to say, Lord God I hate saying this, but for all the tree-huggers, for all of you tree-huggers, you really want to save a tree? Eat more beavers. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay . The next speaker, please. PUBLIC SPEAKER: My n ame is Mike Trivette. I am not a politician, and I am not running for any elected office. I'm a local physician in the area. I am not here to defend or support any coal. My question is simply this: Why are we even having this forum? T his is not a fact-finding mission. Your decision has already been made. I think you are here as an extension of the -- President Obama's Administr ation. President Obama has already said that his goal was to destroy the coal industry. And what he couldn't do through cap and trade, he is doing through you, the EPA. But I want you to und erstand something. You work for us, and we don't work for you. The1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 97 problem -- (Applause). Und erstand this. I find it very disingenuous, even hypocritical for you to take advantage of the benef its of coal and then come and tell us how evil c oal is when you use the electricity. When you drov e up in your car. Your car was made of steel , which came from coke. (Applause). And you're taking advantage of the work, the hard work and sweat of the coal miner, and yet you are up he re trying to destroy the livelihood of t hese people. And I find you -- I find it despicable that you would not even consider . Your mind is made up. You are not here for a fact-finding mission. You are here to make us dumb hillbilly coal miners look stupid. And I am not here (Applause) to beg crumbs from your table. Understand that. I'm here to ask why you a re even bothering to have this session. Your m ind is made up. Coal -- if the coal miners will stand together, if they will come together and decide this is it, we're not going to run another lump of coal until you guys are on the unemployment line and they stand together as one and shut the mines down, you'll see exactly wh at coal does. Thank you very much.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 98 (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Okay. This is the last one? The last speaker, please. PUBLIC SPEAKER: Christie Riggins. That is spelled C-h-r-i-s-t-i-e R-i -g-g-i-n-s. I work for Summit Engineering, and I'm an environmental scientist. I'm a degreed e nvironmental scientist concentrated in aquatic res ources, and most of my time is spent in the streams and creeks of the Appalachia. By following fair and reasonable guidelines set forth by the State, I have seen with my own eyes coal industries improve the quality of life and t he environment while still providing economic de velopment and energy resources. However, the liberty of mining coal, to mine coal, is bein g threatened by this Administration. It is the free market and not the government that is th e solution to America's energy needs. Inhibiting t he free market only prohibits technology advanc ement for the efficient use of our natu ral resources. Recent science brought fort h by the EPA is also highly motivated by political interference and funding. There is more science left out than1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 99 is put in. It is thi s kind of unfair, unfounded EPA science that is being used to cripple our economy. (Applause). One speaker mentioned -- and are you all ready for this? -- coal mining has caused a decreased life exp ectancy here in Pike County. And, additionally, he stated that employment has increa sed by 6 percent in this area. Statements such as this are loaded, stilted claims supported by the EPA and their supporters. And they have the nerve to come here to Pikeville, Kentucky and state that is scientific fact. The fact is that the numb er of jobs available has decreased. If the same number of jobs were still available now as those that were available when Obama took office, employme nt would have increased significantly. It seems that the EPA has an agenda that common sense cannot unravel , being funded by our tax dollars. If we bleed, you bleed with us. We must have our voices heard in November. Change must happen. We will raise our voices and be heard by all and end this t yranny on our coal, on our jobs, and on our liberty. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 75: My name is Tina Bryant,1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 100 B-r-y-a-n-t. I'm num ber 75. I'm just representing my family. My husband is a coal truck driver. He just got off of work, 16 hours working driving a truck. For those 16 hours he only got four loads. Now, how is that supposed to help me and my family? You guys keep pushing and keep pushing. You want cle an water? Well, guess what? There is water every where. Go find it. But don't take away jobs from these people around here. They have got famili es. You guys have got families. What would happe n if we would come and take your job? Would you like it? No. All you guys want to do is talk statistics. Nobody says why. Why do you want to take our jobs? Why do you want to take these men's jobs? These people are supporting their families. Just leave us alone. Go do whatever you guys want to do. But leave these jobs a lone, and we'll all be happy. (Applause) SPEAKER NO. 72: Numb er 72, Skip Holmes. Like most of you up t here, I am not a native of eastern Kentucky. But having lived here for 18 months, I have gained some insight as to how important coal is to this s tate and to this entire1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 101 United States. All I have to do is listen to the coal train that rumbles by my home 10 times a day pulling 100 cars behind it. That's 1,000 coal cars every day just going on one route. When you see the slogan "coal keeps the lights on," that is not just a slogan, th at is a fact. Coal provides electric power for millions and millions of households in t his country. All our countrymen do is flip the switch and they expect the lights to go on. The day they don't come on, it will be too late to fix the problem. Green is a nice color, and it is a nice concept. But that is what it is right now, it is a concept. Solar, wind, geothermal, nuclear, natural gas, those are all nice concepts. But these have potential -- they don't have potential to replace coal in the near term or even the midterm. The recent failure of Solyndra is a perfect example of just how difficult it is to create new renewable sources of energy. It is going to tak e decades to develop these new sources of energy. And in the meantime, you are killing the one true tested source of energy. Here in the mountains of eastern Kentucky and West Virginia, coal has bee n the lifeblood of the1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 102 region. This state has gon e from a high of 47,000 jobs in the industry to und er 20,000 jobs today. That number falls eve ry time you reject an application. Eastern Kentu cky is blessed and it is cursed by these mountain s. They have provided coal to fuel the nation's jobs and create jobs for thousands of miners. But they have also restricted the growth of manufacturing and transportation. Without th e mines, this community will be pushed back to limited opportunities of yesterday. (Applause) PUBLIC SPEAKER: Befo re I get started, my name is Mike Baisden. I'm a candidate for the House of Delegates in West Virginia in the 20th District. That is in southern West Virginia, in Mingo County and Logan County. And I would like to respectfully request that the time on the clock be changed to four minutes, if I can. If you could change that to four minutes. MS. MacPHERSON: And why is that? PUBLIC SPEAKER: Well, I just would like to ask that. You can't do that because that's not fair; right?1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 103 MS. MacPHERSON: That's right. PUBLIC SPEAKER: It is not fair for you to change it. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: That's right. PUBLIC SPEAKER: It is not fair for you to change the rules in midstream. It is not fair to my good friend Bobby, who spoke up here two minutes ago and you gave him two minutes. And that's all I want, is a fair shot to speak to you all. And I appreciat e the opportunity to do that. But now that we're al l friends and buddies and we're just around and we're just talking now, let me ask you this: Do you all really believe that green energy -- and, by the way, in case you didn't know, solar panels were invented in the 90s, and that is the 1890s. They haven't worked since then. They won't work now. And they won't work 50 years in the future . I don't know what you expect. (Applause). B ut I live for the day. I live for the day, L adies and Gentlemen, when Mr. Obama is laying -- (indicating) -- Mr. Obama is laying on a surgical tab le and they walk into him and say, "Well, y ou know, the Commission that approves your operation has said, 'Yeah, you can1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 104 go ahead and have it. We'r e just waiting for the clouds to clear out and the wind to pick up so we can operate on you.'" (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay. Wait one second. Okay. Next speaker, please. SPEAKER NO. 74: I am speaker 74, Jimmie Rogers, J-i-m-m-i-e R-o-g-e-r-s. I would like to ask y ou folks a question. Why are you here? Be cause I just heard on the news that a commentator said, "President Obama wants to shutdown every coa l mining operation in the United States." So I ask you, why are you here? On the evening news another commentator said, "The federal go vernment is going to shutdown all natural gas drilling." On the news just recently, and you probably know his name, I didn't have time to write it, a former EPA official made the statement, "Crucify, crucify the coal business." I can't find that on my notes right now. He said to crucify th e oil and the -- -- and the gas business. So my question is: Why do you think the Lord Jesus Christ put the coal in the ground (Applause), put the gas in the ground, put the1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 105 precious metals in th e ground? To sit there? He put the coal and the gas in the ground for us to mine it and to get it out to make a living. We have no industries in Pike County except coal and gas. If you shut this down, this will be a ghost town. A ghost town . So we want to see these people work and work efficiently and obey the law. But all I hear on the news is, "Over regulation. Over regulatio n." My 7-year-old granddaughter can't even ha ve a lemonade stand. All these four-lane highway s we have, U.S. 460, U.S. 23, U.S. 119, and Kent ucky 80, I don't hear anybody from the Sierra Club complaining about these four lanes that they did mountaintop removal. But I hear all of this crap about the coal mining, that it is bad. Hallelujah. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Thank you. Just one second before you get started. SPEAKER NO. 79: I'm Winston Oliver, number 79. Winston Ol iver, O-l-i-v-e-r. First of all, I love Kentucky, especially eastern Kentucky. I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone th at works in the coal industry. I dream of a Kentucky where the EPA can1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 106 give grants to universities and local governments to help coal gasification become a reality and clean coal technology. I hope to see some day that we can have these clean coal power plants built right here in this county and all of the coal-producing counties can export electricity to the United States all over the continent. I also think that it's amazing what mountaintop removal c an do, as far as development. I think that it can be -- it can go hand-and-hand with the environmentalists. Why not develop wind farms and solar farms on some of the reclaimed sites? And as far as water goes, I would like to see the EPA help loca l utility companies extend waterlines to all the people that have bad water that need help with their w ater. I think that is a solution. And I -- I think that mountaintop removal sites are -- would make a good tourist attraction. The -- some of the mines that have already been mined, people come from all over to look at them, I think in Harlan and places. What we do have here needs to be marketed better. People that want to support it, let them support it, you know? There is good on both sides. That's all I have to1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 107 say. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Okay. Next speaker. SPEAKER NO. 76: Good evening. I am speaker number 76. My name is Rob Baldwin, B-a-l-d-w-i-n. And I am a concerned citize n of southern West Virginia. Much has already been said tonight concerning the devastating economic consequences of EPA's decision to obstruct 36 min ing permits in the state of Kentucky and many more in my home state of West Virginia. But what I want to talk about tonight is the scientific justification that EPA uses in their r ational for obstructing these permits. Why haven't any peer-reviewed studies been released that ju stify implementation of ultra strict water quality standa rds for such parameters as selenium and conductivity, many of which we have to -- the coal i ndustry has to adhere to limits in parts per b illion. If such overwhelming scientific consensus exists concerning damage to the aquatic community from these parameters at these concentrations, one w ould think that this data would be readily available. You would think1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 108 it wouldn't be too difficult to find it. The absence of readily av ailable data concerning these parameters leads one to bel ieve that the limits enforced by EPA and EPA's objections to mining permits based on potential harm to aquatic life are just an excuse to obstruct coal production and the burning of fossil fuels in the United States. Any reasonable person or ag ency would not risk further jeopardizing an alr eady fragile economy without having sound, irref utable data to justify it. And all I want to know is, where is this data. Thank you. (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Thank you. Okay. My understanding is you are th e last speaker. Are there any other speak ers that have speaker numbers? Okay. Please go ahead. SPEAKER NO. 80: I'm speaker number 80, David Kirkland, K-i-r-k-l-a-n-d. I was born and raised in this area. The coal mountains are what brought this area to be what it is. An d you all are trying to strike it down. Fift y-one percent of our nation's energy comes from coa l, of which Washington, DC, where you all make these laws, is also powered by1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 109 coal. So earlier it was asked that you all turn the lights off, and t hat was not done. So I assume that you all do not want to go without your power. Therefore, do not strike down this coal. (Applause). We need it. Our economy is already fragile. We have unemploym ent rates not seen since the Depression, and you all want to further put people out of business. You all want to put down these companies that a re trying to employ people. And coal doesn't just -- it is not just for power. It is used in insecticides, which help our farms produce food. It is used in charcoal, which we use for our grills. It is used in medicine. It's -- for example, if a child ingests something they shouldn't have, charcoal is placed in their stomach to remove it. It is used in artificial -- it is used in many th ings, TNT, linoleum that you all put in your-all's fancy houses up in Washington. (Applause). It is used in the perfumes that you all put on yourself. It is used in ammonia, which we use to clean our homes. It is used in paint. It is not just power. It is used to heat and melt steel so that we can have buildings like this and lik e we have out in1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 110 Washington. My question to you is: We are the people and we want the coal, so why can't we have it? (Applause) MS. MacPHERSON: Okay. At this time, I would like to turn it back to Jim Giattina for some closing comments. Jim. MR. GIATTINA: I want to thank you all for your participation both this afternoon and this evening. I know it has bee n a long day for folks, and we truly do appreciate it. We understand and can feel the passion on all sides of this issue. I can assure you that our minds are not made up on these permits. The comments that we receive, both oral and writ ten, as I said at the outset, will be considered and evaluated as we make the final determinatio n regarding the permit objections. After co nsideration of the record that you have provided to us here and in Frankfort, after we consider again the requirements of the Clean Water Act and its regulations, the Regional Administrator in Atlanta will make a determina tion concerning the objections and we'll notify Kentucky DOW, the districts, and all of you who have provided your1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 111 address this evening. Again, I thank you for your participation. And we stand adjourned. (Public hearing conclud ed at 9:30 p.m.)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SWORN TESTIMONY , PLLC 2404 Doubletree Court , Lexington , Kentucky 40514 ( 859 ) 533 - 8961 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE STATE OF KENTUCKY ) COUNTY OF FAYETTE )

I, LISA M. SCHWARZE, RPR, KyCCR, and Notary Public in and for the Common wealth of Kentucky at Large, do hereby certify tha t the facts as stated by me in the caption hereto are true; that the foregoing proceedings as indicat ed were made before me by the parties hereinbefore named, and were thereafter reduced to computer-aided transcription by me and under my supervision; and that the same is a true and accurate transcript of the p roceedings to the best of my ability.

I further certify that I am no t employed by, related to, nor of counsel f or any of the parties herein, nor otherwise intere sted in the outcome of this proceeding.

IN WIT NESS WHEREOF, I have affixed my signature and seal this 11th day of June, 2012.

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_

_ LISA M. SCHWARZE, RPR, KyCCR Notary Public, State-at-Large 2404 Doubletree Court Lexington, Kentucky 40514 859.533.8961 My Commission Expires: June 13, 2013