From: Rosenstock, Steven [mailto:SRosenstock@eei.org] 

Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 1:54 PM 

To: Cymbalsky, John; Meyers, Aaron; Nadel, Steve; Bruce R Hirsch; Robert Berman; Jerry Hodge; John 

Caskey 

Cc: Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; Savitz, Maxine (EMAB); 

mhyland@appanet.org; Raymond.Polinski@ATImetals.com; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net; 

tpetrosino@carolina.rr.com; dbrender@cda.copper.org; James.Lass@cleco.com; 

chris.brown@cogentpowerinc.com; frank.guilbault@cogentpowerinc.com; 

ted.johnstone@cogentpowerinc.com; Trujillo, Antonio; Moore, Jack C; Corkran, Jerry L; 

tballo@earthjustice.org; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com; Marchetti, Emily 

(CONTR); Freeman, Jeremiah (CONTR); Raba, Jim; DYoung@energy-solution.com; 

rick.anderson@faypwc.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com; 

carlos.gaytan@ge.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; ned.efbrush@gmail.com; 

Richard Parker; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; Cohen, Daniel; Phil Hopkinson; cabolduc@lbl.gov; 

gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; ScottB@LVMetals.com; dave.millure@metglas.com; 

kwinder@mleainc.com; jrossetti@mlgw.org; Brian Coffey; Caitlin Johnson; Matthew Nardotti; Michael 

Rivest; Zhimei Luo; Jim Creevy; mwaltner@nrdc.org; rroy@nrdc.org; robert.saint@nreca.coop; 

Teckman@nwcouncil.org; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; gbf1@pge.com; 

chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; ahofmann@publicpower.org; pkumar@publicpower.org; 

adelaski@standardsASAP.org; jmauer@standardsasap.org; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; 

chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com; charlied@uus.org 

Subject: RE: Electric Vehicle Projections 

As a point of reference, the spreadsheet that Mr. Cymbalsky sent out (thank you, John) 

showed estimated sales of 24,900 EV’s and PHEV’s in 2011. Based on the following 

articles: 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/02/us-tesla-idUSTRE7A18RJ20111102 

http://detnews.com/article/20111102/AUTO01/111020344/Chevy-Volt-sees-best-salesyet--Nissan-Leaf-still-ahead 

As of October 31, 2011, there have been 13,051 Leafs and Volts sold or leased in the 

US so far in 2011. I could not find specific numbers for the Tesla Roadster or 

conversions of gasoline vehicles to PHEV’s in 2011, so I will make a semi-educated 

guess that other vehicle sales would raise the number to about 13,500 EV’s and 

PHEV’s sold in 2011 as of 10/31/2011. 

Will the number rise to 24,900 by the end of this year? I will leave that to the 

forecasters..... :-) 

Steve Rosenstock 

Manager, Energy Solutions 

Edison Electric Institute 

srosenstock@eei.org

202-508-5465 
From: Cymbalsky, John [mailto:John.Cymbalsky@EE.Doe.Gov] 

Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 12:20 PM 

To: 'Meyers, Aaron'; Nadel, Steve; Bruce R Hirsch; Robert Berman; Jerry Hodge; John Caskey 

Cc: Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; Savitz, Maxine (EMAB); 

mhyland@appanet.org; Raymond.Polinski@ATImetals.com; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net; 

tpetrosino@carolina.rr.com; dbrender@cda.copper.org; James.Lass@cleco.com; 

chris.brown@cogentpowerinc.com; frank.guilbault@cogentpowerinc.com; 

ted.johnstone@cogentpowerinc.com; Trujillo, Antonio; Moore, Jack C; Corkran, Jerry L; 

tballo@earthjustice.org; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com; Marchetti, Emily 

(CONTR); Freeman, Jeremiah (CONTR); Raba, Jim; Rosenstock, Steven; DYoung@energy-solution.com; 

rick.anderson@faypwc.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com; 

carlos.gaytan@ge.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; ned.efbrush@gmail.com; 

Richard Parker; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; Cohen, Daniel; Phil Hopkinson; cabolduc@lbl.gov; 

gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; ScottB@LVMetals.com; dave.millure@metglas.com; 

kwinder@mleainc.com; jrossetti@mlgw.org; brian.coffey@navigant.com; caitlin.johnson@navigant.com; 

matthew.nardotti@navigant.com; mrivest@navigant.com; zhimei.luo@navigant.com; Jim Creevy; 

mwaltner@nrdc.org; rroy@nrdc.org; robert.saint@nreca.coop; Teckman@nwcouncil.org; 

vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; gbf1@pge.com; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; 

ahofmann@publicpower.org; pkumar@publicpower.org; adelaski@standardsASAP.org; 

jmauer@standardsasap.org; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; 

thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com; charlied@uus.org

Subject: RE: Electric Vehicle Projections 

Aaron et al:

Attached is the official USG projections for LDV sales from EIA, the independent statistical agency of the

USG from which our electricity projections are based.

John

From: Meyers, Aaron [mailto:Aaron.Meyers@CooperIndustries.com] 

Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 12:09 PM 

To: Steve Nadel; Bruce R Hirsch; Robert Berman; Jerry Hodge; John Caskey 

Cc: Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; Savitz, Maxine (EMAB); 

mhyland@appanet.org; Raymond.Polinski@ATImetals.com; maheshsampat@bellsouth.net; 

tpetrosino@carolina.rr.com; dbrender@cda.copper.org; James.Lass@cleco.com; 

chris.brown@cogentpowerinc.com; frank.guilbault@cogentpowerinc.com; 

ted.johnstone@cogentpowerinc.com; Trujillo, Antonio; Moore, Jack C; Corkran, Jerry L; 

tballo@earthjustice.org; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com; Marchetti, Emily 

(CONTR); Freeman, Jeremiah (CONTR); Raba, Jim; Cymbalsky, John; srosenstock@eei.org; 

DYoung@energy-solution.com; rick.anderson@faypwc.com; bsmith@federalpacific.com; 

rgreeson@federalpacific.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; 

greg.coulter405@gmail.com; ned.efbrush@gmail.com; Richard Parker; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; Cohen, 

Daniel; Phil Hopkinson; cabolduc@lbl.gov; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; 

ScottB@LVMetals.com; dave.millure@metglas.com; kwinder@mleainc.com; jrossetti@mlgw.org; 

brian.coffey@navigant.com; caitlin.johnson@navigant.com; matthew.nardotti@navigant.com; 

mrivest@navigant.com; zhimei.luo@navigant.com; Jim Creevy; mwaltner@nrdc.org; rroy@nrdc.org; 
robert.saint@nreca.coop; Teckman@nwcouncil.org; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; gbf1@pge.com; 

chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; ahofmann@publicpower.org; pkumar@publicpower.org; 

adelaski@standardsASAP.org; jmauer@standardsasap.org; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; 

chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com; charlied@uus.org

Subject: Electric Vehicle Projections 

Dear Distribution Transformer Efficiency Subcommittee, et al,

The following link is to an article published by the NEMA Intelligence Portal and provides some insight

into the projected impact of electric vehicles:

http://portal.nema.org/Pages/document.aspx?docId=3156&LoadSource=LexisNexis&utm_medium=ema

il&utm_campaign=digest_2011‐11‐17&utm_source=aaron.meyers@cooperindustries.com

Most interestingly, by 2025, one in seven new cars is projected to be a zero‐emission or plug‐in hybrid

vehicle, and 1.4 million are projected to be on the road in California alone by 2025.  I don’t see how we

can ignore the impact of this significant change.  Meeting the charging needs will dramatically change

the loading assumptions in the current analysis.  As someone pointed out at the October meeting, the

reference loading level (50%) is part of the testing standard and is not on the table for negotiating

purposes, so this is just another non‐trivial factor that must be considered outside of the existing

analysis results.

Keep in mind that for two transformers having the same efficiency at 50% load, the amorphous one will

be more efficient at low loading levels whereas the grain‐oriented one will be more efficient at higher

loading levels.  Looking at Cooper’s data, the ratio of no‐load to load losses at 100% load on a typical

DOE compliant grain‐oriented transformer today is 6:1, and on a Cooper amorphous unit it’s about

10:1.  To make an analogy, if no‐load losses were a slice of pie, the load losses would be the rest of the

entire pie! Load losses are a huge lever and cannot be tossed aside as if merely a nuisance! Most of the

discussion thus far has been squarely focused on no‐load losses.  We need to make sure we aren’t

spending four dollars to save fifty cents.

Best Regards,

Aaron