U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

29–659 PDF WASHINGTON : 2019

S. Hrg. 115–444 

2020 CENSUS: EXAMINING COST OVERRUNS, 

INFORMATION SECURITY, AND ACCURACY 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

OCTOBER 31, 2017 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin, Chairman 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

STEVE DAINES, Montana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

JON TESTER, Montana 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire 

KAMALA D. HARRIS, California 

CHRISTOPHER R. HIXON, Staff Director 

GABRIELLE D’ADAMO SINGER, Chief Counsel 

JENNIFER L. SELDE, Senior Professional Staff Member 

MARGARET E. DAUM, Minority Staff Director 

PHYLICIA WOODS, Minority Counsel 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

BONNI E. DINERSTEIN, Hearing Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 1 

Senator Heitkamp ............................................................................................ 2 

Senator Lankford .............................................................................................. 11 

Senator Hassan ................................................................................................. 14 

Senator Harris .................................................................................................. 16 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 19 

Senator Peters .................................................................................................. 21 

Senator Daines ................................................................................................. 23 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 33 

Senator Heitkamp ............................................................................................ 34 

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 31, 2017 

Hon. Wilbur L. Ross Jr., Secretary, U.S. Department of Commerce; Accompanied by Ron S. Jarmin, Ph.D., Acting Director, U.S. Census Bureau ......... 4 

Hon. Eugene L. Dodaro, Comptroller General of the United States, U.S. 

Government Accountability Office ...................................................................... 6 

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Dodaro, Hon. Eugene L.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 40 

Ross, Hon. Wilbur L.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 4 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 35 

APPENDIX 

Chart submitted by Senator Johnson .................................................................... 79 

Chart submitted by Senator Johnson .................................................................... 80 

Letter submitted by Senator Johnson .................................................................... 81 

Letter submitted by Senator Carper and Senator Harris .................................... 85 

Charts submitted by Mr. Ross ................................................................................ 102 

Statements submitted for the Record: 

Asian Americans Advancing Justice ............................................................... 105 

American Federation of Government Employees, AFL–CIO ........................ 123 

Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights ..................................... 125 

NETWORK Lobby ............................................................................................ 133 

National Urban League .................................................................................... 135 

Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record: 

Mr. Ross ............................................................................................................ 141 

Mr. Dodaro ........................................................................................................ 205 

(1) 

1The prepared statement of Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 33. 

2The chart referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 79. 

3The chart referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 80. 

2020 CENSUS: EXAMINING COST OVERRUNS, 

INFORMATION SECURITY, AND ACCURACY 

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 31, 2017 

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:36 p.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ron Johnson, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Johnson, Lankford, Daines, Carper, Tester, 

Heitkamp, Peters, Hassan, and Harris. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHNSON 

Chairman JOHNSON. Good afternoon. This hearing will come to 

order. We are assembled here to review the 2020 Census: Examining Cost Overruns, Information Security, and Accuracy. 

I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony and for their 

time appearing here before us. 

We have two simple charts. I will keep my opening statement 

brief. I will ask consent to enter my written statement in the 

record.1

The first chart—if we have somebody willing to put it up. It is 

basically the Census cost since 1970 where in inflated dollars, we 

spent about $1.2 billion.2 This year—and Secretary Ross will testify to this—we will spend about $15.6 billion, which is an increase of 

$3.4 billion over the estimate from October 2015, slightly less than 

the $17.5 billion had we used the 2010 methodology. I guess you 

could say we are making progress. If you just take the $1.2 billion we spent in 1970—and, Secretary 

Ross, this is my business background; this is the way I would do 

it in a budget review session—and just grow the cost by population—we have gone from about 200 million to about 320 million 

people—it would be about a $1.9 billion cost. If you grew it by an 

increase—because it is about a 56 percent increase in population. 

If you grew an increase of households, which has basically doubled, 

it would be $2.4 billion, and we are looking at $15.6 billion. 

Another way of looking at that—next chart3—we are keeping 

him hopping—would be cost per household, and again, this is in-
2 

1The prepared statement of Senator Heitkamp appears in the Appendix on page 34. 

flated dollars. It costs about $17 per household in 1970. We are 

projecting about $107 per household. 

Now, I realize response rate is down. There are a host of explanations, you could use to explain that, but it still begs the question: 

What has changed so dramatically from 1970 that the costs have 

increased so dramatically? 

As somebody who ran a business and got the incredibly voluminous business Census, I know I scratched my head and said, ‘‘Why 

does the Federal Government need this much information, and how 

is it potentially used?’’ Now, I think time is short. The U.S. Census 

was added to the high-risk list, and we will let General Dodaro 

really explain why that was, but I am just going to ask the question. What are we asking on this Census? Do we really need to ask 

this much? Can we pare this thing down kind of based on what we 

really need versus going way overboard? I have to believe some of 

the detail, some of the volume of the questions asked is certainly 

responsible for some of the cost overruns as well, but those are 

some of the issues I will be trying to explore during this hearing. 

With that, I will turn it over to our Ranking Member who by the 

way—I know I mentioned this in our morning meeting. I am happy 

to have Senator Heitkamp be our Ranking Member, but Senator 

McCaskill is not here because her husband suffered a severe heart 

attack. He is in the intensive care unit, so I just want everybody 

to keep Senator McCaskill and Joe and their family in your 

thoughts and prayers. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP1

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Chairman Johnson. 

First, I would like to express my warmest wishes to Claire and 

her husband, Joseph. They are in our prayers, and we really are 

hoping for a swift and speedy recovery. I understand he is on the 

mend. We are getting good reports. I know Claire would be here 

if at all possible. 

Secretary Ross, Comptroller General Dodaro, thank you again for 

joining us today. This needs to be the first, I think, in the series 

of hearings concerning the Census Bureau and its plans for the 

2020 Census. Simply put, the 2020 Census is in trouble. Budget 

uncertainty, canceled tests, increasing cost projections, and no Senate-confirmed Director are all signs of an operation that is teetering. 

We can still get it back on track, but we are running out of time. 

The lack of even a nominee for the Census Director position is very 

troubling, and I hope that lack does not indicate the priority that 

the Administration places on the constitutionally mandated Census. 

A critical concern to me and to my constituents are the canceled 

tests in Indian Country. Indian reservations provide unique challenges for the Census Bureau, such as historic distrust of the Federal Government, a lower likelihood of deliverable mail, and sparse 

population centers. 

As the 2020 effort began to ramp up, the effort looked good. Coupled with the goal of a tribal enrollment questions in 2020, the 
3 

Census Bureau determined two tests were necessary to adequately 

prepare for potential road blocks on the reservations and how we 

could have a more successful Census effort on the reservation. 

However, both of those tests were canceled, and there are no plans, 

to which I am aware of, to replace them with any sort of tests related to the challenges the Census will face in Indian Country. I 

think this is a mistake and risks the success of the 2020 Census 

in States, especially in the western United States. 

For too long, we have given Indian Country the leftovers. Members of these communities deserve to be counted where they reside, 

just like any other person. But, because of the choices made in 

Washington, it would be much more difficult to make sure that 

that happens. 

These concerns go way beyond tribal issues. From what I have 

seen, I am not sure the Census Bureau is generally prepared to do 

a very effective job in rural America nationwide. 

The planned tests focus more on urban and suburban regions. It 

is, of course, critical to get accurate counts there, but we have to 

make sure that the Census is prepared to meet the needs of rural 

America. 

There are also questions regarding contracting decisions and information technology (IT) security as we move forward and enumerate these techniques and these challenges. 

The integration and modernization of the IT systems of the Bureau and the mobile device bid protest are issues of particular interest and importance to our Ranking Member, Senator Claire 

McCaskill, and I know she would talk about them if she were here 

today. 

With that, I look forward to hearing from the witnesses on how 

we are going to get this turned around and get the 2020 Census 

back on track. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Heitkamp. 

It is the tradition of this Committee to swear in witnesses, so if 

you all would stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear the 

testimony you will give before this Committee will be the truth, the 

whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? 

Secretary ROSS. I do. 

Mr. DODARO. I do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Please be seated. 

Our first witness is the Honorable Wilbur L. Ross Jr. He is the 

Secretary of Department of Commerce. Secretary Ross is accompanied by Dr. Ron Jarmin, who is the Acting Director for the U.S. 

Census Bureau. Secretary Ross will provide the oral testimony, and 

Dr. Jarmin is here to answer specific questions. Secretary Ross. 
4 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Ross appears in the Appendix on page 35. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE WILBUR L. ROSS JR.,1 SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE; ACCOMPANIED 

BY RON S. JARMIN, PH.D., ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. CENSUS 

BUREAU 

Secretary ROSS. Thank you, Chairman Johnson. Thank you also, 

Ranking Member, and I give my best condolences and hope everything turns out for the McCaskill family. I thank the whole Committee for your continuing support and oversight of the 2020 Census, a critical constitutionally mandated endeavor. 

An efficient 2020 Census that provides a full, fair, and accurate 

count has been one of my highest priorities since being confirmed 

in February. I myself was an enumerator as I worked my way 

through business school. I have a strong appreciation for the responsibilities and the unique challenges of counting everyone in the 

United States once every 10 years, and it has been clear from my 

first day that the Census would be one of the most challenging aspects of the entire Commerce portfolio. 

I agree with the Members of this Committee. The Census is the 

bedrock upon which we construct our system of democratic representation. It provides for apportionment, redistricting, and the 

distribution of hundreds of billions of dollars of Federal funding. 

Accordingly, some of my first meetings after confirmation were 

with the Census staff, and my early concerns were heightened 

when only 2 months into my tenure, the Census Bureau suddenly 

announced a 40 percent cost overrun in the Census Enterprise 

Data Collection and Processing (CEDCaP) program. 

In terms of the broader Decennial Census, the prior Administration’s last life-cycle cost estimate in October 2015 was $12.5 billion. 

When testifying before Congress in June, I did not accept that figure. Instead, I vowed to return after a careful review with a newly 

vetted 2020 Census life-cycle cost that I could support. The results 

of that review bring me here today. 

On the whole, we found that the prior Administration provided 

overly optimistic assessments of both the ease of implementing new 

technologies and the cost savings they would provide. Also, most of 

their key contracts are on a time and materials basis, which are 

the most dangerous forms of contract. 

The prior Administration also failed to follow basic management 

practices, such as using certified cost estimators and checking estimates against actual cost. Their estimates, instead, were made by 

subject matter experts. 

We are working today closely with the Government Accountability Office (GAO) to address those failures and correct the 

record. This had led us to now project a life-cycle cost estimate of 

$15.6 billion. This increase includes contingency funding of $1.2 billion to address potential risks and associated challenges, such as 

national disasters, potentially lower self-response rates, the difficulty in cost of hiring 500,000 temporary workers in a tight labor 

market, and the complexity of developing and integrating multiple 

information technology innovations. Our $1.2 billion reserve, a contingency of 10 percent of the post-2018 budget, on top of the inde-
5 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Dodaro appears in the Appendix on page 40. 

pendent cost estimate level will be managed at the secretarial 

level. 

Our new life-cycle cost estimate includes a request for a $187 

million adjustment for Fiscal Year (FY) 2018. These funds will 

allow us to make a significant course correction. The Census Bureau and the Department of Commerce will be held accountable. 

Commerce now conducts weekly 2020 Census oversight reviews 

and will require metric tracking and program execution status on 

a real-time basis. The Under Secretary for Economic Affairs, Karen 

Dunn Kelley, has been in place since late August, and she will 

have direct oversight over the 2020 Census. 

Seasoned senior management is also in place at the Census Bureau itself. Ron Jarmin, on my left, and Enrique Lamas are performing the nonexclusive duties and functions of the Director of the 

U.S. Census Bureau and the Deputy Director and Chief Operating 

Officer (COO), respectively. Each has nearly three decades of experience in Census. 

We are now just 30 months away from the 2020 Census. Many 

challenges lie ahead, and these additional resources are urgently 

needed, but with the management changes we have detailed and 

with the additional resources requested, I am confident we will 

have a full, fair, and accurate Census. 

I look forward to working with this Committee, your staff, and 

the rest of Congress over the months and years to come. I thank 

the Committee for the opportunity to come before you today, and 

I look forward to your questions. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Secretary Ross. 

Our final testimony will be given by the Honorable Gene L. 

Dodaro. Mr. Dodaro has been the Comptroller General of the U.S. 

Government and Accountability Office since 2010 and has more 

than 40 years of experience at the agency, including as Acting 

Comptroller General, Chief Operating Officer and head of the Accounting and Information Management Division. General Dodaro. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE EUGENE L. DODARO,1 COMPTROLLER GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE 

Mr. DODARO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Ranking 

Member Heitkamp, Members of the Committee. I am very pleased 

to be here today, but first, I would like to express and add my best 

wishes to Senator McCaskill and her husband for a speedy recovery. 

I am pleased to be able to talk about the preparations for the 

2020 Census. 

We consider the 2020 Census among the highest management 

risks in the Federal Government for three main reasons. One, the 

Bureau is trying a number of innovations, such as Internet response, use of administrative records, and reengineering its field 

operations, and unfortunately, they have had to cancel some of the 

field tests. Senator Heitkamp mentioned some of those tests were 

intended to be done in the Indian areas, tribal areas, and others. 
6 

Reduction of these tests leads to limitations on the confidence 

that the Bureau and Congress can have regarding these innovations and heightens the risk. That is issue number one. 

Issue number two is the difficulties, significant ones in implementing and securing IT systems. As of last August, for example, 

only 4 of the 43 systems Census was planning to use had completed development and testing. Now, there have been schedule 

delays. That results in a compressed schedule, and what we are 

really concerned about is that the main casualty of this will be not 

only potential problems in the operations but reduced testing for 

security. This is a particular concern because about 75 percent of 

the systems will contain sensitive information that needs to be 

safeguarded. 

The third reason we put the 2020 Census on the high-risk list 

had to do with the cost estimates. We did not believe there was a 

comprehensive and reliable cost estimate to complete the Census 

successfully. We did not deem the last cost estimate in 2015 reliable for a number of reasons. As soon as we get the full documentation from Commerce Department and the Census Bureau, we will 

review it to determine whether we believe the current estimate is 

reliable. 

Now, moving forward, there are a few things that are really important. One is sustained leadership attention. This is always the 

number one area that we look at in terms of getting off the highrisk list. 

I am very pleased that Secretary Ross has been focused on this 

and applied some additional resources on management teams, and 

conducted an independent cost estimate. I think that was very appropriate. I think the fact that the Bureau has increased the estimate by $3 billion shows that our prior assessment of the 

unreliability of the earlier estimate had merit. 

But there needs to be an appointed, Senate-confirmed leader not 

only for the Director of the Census Bureau. Also a Deputy Director 

is needed as well. I think that is very important going forward. 

There are a lot of difficult issues that will need to be dealt with, 

and having permanent leadership in place there will be very important. 

Second is the capacity. Right now, for example, the Government 

Program Management Office that is overseeing the contract integrator of all of the Census IT systems, has about 60 percent vacancies in the positions there at that Office, and so this is going to be 

very important going forward. 

Also, I was pleased—— 

Senator CARPER. I am sorry. Would you just repeat that? Gene, 

would you just repeat that again? That is so alarming. 

Mr. DODARO. There is a Government Program Management Office that is intended to oversee the contract integrator that was 

brought in to integrate these 43 systems for the operations. They 

have about 35 out of 58 positions unfilled. So, they have 60 percent 

unfilled positions that they need to get in place, and this is very 

important, given we have had concerns about their management of 

IT practices going back prior Censuses as well. We remain concerned about that for this Census preparation as well. 
7 

I was very pleased Secretary Ross has agreed to give high priority to implementing GAO’s open recommendations. Over the last 

decade, we have made 84. Thirty-six have not been implemented. 

Fifteen, we consider priority recommendations, and they go to the 

heart of the reasons that we designated the Department high risk. 

I think you need leadership capacity. I commend this Committee 

for holding this hearing. I think it is very important to have regular congressional oversight, particularly over the next year and a 

half, because that is basically the window that you have to lock 

down the procedures for the 2020 Census. Otherwise it will be too 

late to make last-minute changes. 

Unless these high-risk areas are addressed, I am concerned 

about not only the cost effectiveness of the Census but the quality 

of the count and its usefulness to meet the constitutional requirements. 

Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. I 

would be happy to answer questions. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, General Dodaro. 

Let me start with you. In terms of the three high-risk concerns, 

cost overrun, are you satisfied based on your dealings with Secretary Ross that we have a pretty good handle on the cost now? 

Mr. DODARO. I will not be able to determine that until we see 

the documentation supporting the cost estimate. We had real concerns about the documentation with the 2015 estimate, and it did 

not meet best practices, any of the four practices that we test for. 

Also, some of the math could not be replicated, and supporting documentation was missing. 

I am hopeful that this estimate, since the Secretary brought in 

an independent cost team and bolstered the team, will be in better 

shape, but we will not know that until we have received all the 

supporting documentation and had a chance to carefully review it. 

I will commit to this Committee to get back to you once we have 

all the documentation and have reviewed it. We will give you our 

determination as to the reliability of the estimate. 

Chairman JOHNSON. I will be asking all three of you the same 

question: What is the single biggest risk? What is the thing that 

you are most concerned about with the 2020 Census? 

Mr. DODARO. In addition to the cost, I am concerned about the 

security of the IT systems, particularly with the use of the Internet 

response. I have been before this Committee many times talking 

about cybersecurity issues and the threat it passes to agencies and 

citizens. There is the potential for people to misuse the Internet response rate to make the count be skewed, or there could be other 

mischief associated with it. I am very concerned about that. That 

is why the proper testing and development of the IT systems is important. 

I commend the Department for moving to use technology, and it 

has tremendous benefits to help them improve the count. But without proper security, I think there is a risk that would be unfortunate if it is exploited. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Secretary Ross, I think we all appreciate 

how you have certainly put the 2020 Census at the top of your priority list. Do you have any timeline in terms of when you will ap-
8 

point—or the Administration will appoint a Director and Deputy 

Director? 

Secretary ROSS. We are working on it quite actively. We had had 

one candidate for Director who went very far through the process, 

and then eventually the vetting did not work. We are now back to 

the drawing board, but we recognize the need for day-to-day management. What we are doing as a temporary substitution is we 

have brought in four outside consultants, two of whom had prior 

experience with the Census for many years, two of whom recently 

retired, International Business Machines (IBM) executives, who 

have very good experience with technology rollouts. 

Karen Dunn Kelley, who was confirmed in August, will be taking 

very direct charge of the Census. She is the new Under Secretary 

for Economic Affairs, and she is someone I have worked with for 

many years. She has managed very large and very complex organizations. Those are not obviously permanent substitutes for permanent management, but they are the best we can do, and I think 

they will work well. 

Also, the level of attention being paid to things is quite different. 

We do have a schedule of weekly meetings. We do have very intense sessions with the contractors themselves. I have had a bunch 

of them in already, and we have had some very, as the diplomats 

would say, frank and open discussions about the situation. 

But, I think it might be useful to give you a flavor, one for the 

technological evolution of the Census—and we have handed around 

these blue sheets, which will give you a feel for the complexity and 

the degree of change that is being inculcated from 2010 till the 

present. You can see virtually every aspect of the major functions 

in the Census is different from what it was. They all are trying to 

substitute technology for physical presence, and that is the whole 

theory that they had why they felt they could reduce the costs from 

what they otherwise would have been. 

But the other thing that you should focus on is the horizontal 

chart, the one labeled ‘‘2020 Census.’’ This to me is one of the problems, which is the very complexity of the structure that they are 

imposing. 

You will see here that there are about a dozen major contracts. 

Well, within each of those—take the Technical Integrator, which is 

one of the trickiest and most expensive functions. 

There is a vendor called TREX who in turn has 17 subcontractors 

under it. Now, that is a pretty big task just to manage 17 subcontractors. If you look at the Census questionnaire Assistance 

function, the vendor there is GDIT, 10 subcontractors. As you go 

through the list, what is involved in a 100-some-odd contractors, 

subcontractors to the 10 or 12 general contractors. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Do you think that number of contractors 

and subcontractors is warranted? 

Secretary ROSS. Well, I think what it adds is complexity. 

We, as you know, had nothing to do with the design of this whole 

thing, and we have examined the contracts. It is not easy to get 

out of any of these contracts, number one. Number two, many of 

them, even ones that are on a time and material basis, have very 

stiff cancellation penalties. 
9 

Chairman JOHNSON. Again, coming from the private sector, 

maybe you would want to consult your deputy, Deputy Kelley in 

back of you. 

Is this how you would have designed it if you would have been 

in charge of trying to increase or improve the technology of the 

Census? 

Secretary ROSS. No. I think complexity is the enemy of cost control. 

Chairman JOHNSON. But, you are saying it is too late at this 

point in time to back away from that complexity. 

Secretary ROSS. It is totally too late. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Well, we ought to be looking ahead for the 

2030 to do things—— 

Secretary ROSS. Yes. What we will do as we get through the 

2020, I promise you there will be a very thick volume of lessons 

learned, so at least there will not be the replication of the same 

kinds of mistakes that were made here. 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. I am out of time. I want to stay within 

our 7 minutes, and I want Members and witnesses to stay within 

it. We can do several rounds. 

But I will go to Senator Heitkamp. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I continue to be concerned, Secretary Ross, about the lack of public trust and government, and I think that it has a dramatic effect 

on your ability to do the Census. Breaches from the Securities and 

Exchange Commission (SEC) or breaches from Equifax or security 

breaches play a huge and critical role, I think, in building public 

confidence. 

I share Gene’s concern about cybersecurity and about whether 

people feel their data is, in fact, secure. 

When you consider that in April 2017, only 20 percent of the respondents in a Pew poll said that they trust the Federal Government all or most of the time. 

Considering the lack of public confidence, how can we convince 

anyone that they should turn information over to the Census Bureau, and what is the Census Bureau doing to overcome—you have 

identified a lot of tangible problems, structural problems, personnel 

problems. 

Secretary ROSS. Right. 

Senator HEITKAMP. The intangible problem that I am getting at 

is a lack of trust with the people that you are counting, and so how 

do we get over that intangible problem? 

Secretary ROSS. Well, those are very good questions, and those 

are, frankly, questions that relate very much to why the costs are 

so high because the big cost is not the vast majority of the people, 

the easy-to-enumerate ones. Virtually all of the cost is dedicated toward the harder-to-enumerate people, harder to enumerate either 

because they are Native Americans on reservations, harder to enumerate because of language issues or harder to enumerate for a variety of cultural reasons. 

What are we doing about it? First of all, we have increased the communications budget to $500 million. That is way above the 

$350 million that was spent on it before. They have contracted with 

Young & Rubicam (Y&R) to be the overall general contractor for 
10 

communications, and there are 20 different entities, some parts in 

Young & Rubicam, some outsiders, under that general rubric. 

Many of those are dedicated to very specific ethnic groups, very 

specific language groups, or very specific geographic groups. 

In addition, we are increasing quite a lot the money being expended on the partnerships with faith-based organizations and others in the various regions. We will have over 300,000 such community organizations that we are working with. 

Beyond that, we are experimenting with the idea of making better use of the U.S. postal system. The postal system historically 

has been the most reliable source of addresses and residences, but 

they have not historically used the postal system to actually do 

enumeration. 

We are running a test in Providence, Rhode Island, this spring 

where one of the things we will be testing is working an arrangement with the postal system staff so that after hours, they will 

work for us on our payroll and go door to door. 

Senator HEITKAMP. You are talking, Secretary, about actually engaging with the mail carriers? 

Secretary ROSS. Absolutely. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Because they know their route. They know 

the addresses. They are able to help you. 

Secretary ROSS. Absolutely. Often they know the people, but they 

also have a pretty good idea what is a vacant property and what 

is an occupied property, so that is one thing we are doing. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Fascinating. Yes. 

Secretary ROSS. The other thing we are going to be experimenting with again in Providence is putting kiosks in the postal 

system offices around the country to make another form, another 

easy place for people to fill out the questionnaires. 

We hope that better use of the postal system may also help to 

address the trust issue that you were talking about because nobody 

feels very threatened to have the mailman come to the door. 

Senator HEITKAMP. This is probably a personal experience that 

maybe was not shared with everyone. I was a long form recipient, 

filled out the long form, mailed it in the last time. Then I started 

getting calls from a Census worker, and I was encouraged by a 

friend, said, ‘‘She needs to make a living. Be nice. You can visit 

with her.’’ And so I did, and at that point, she was asking me a 

lot of questions about how many devices I had in my house—cell 

phones, iPads, and I have a lot of that. She was pretty impressed. 

About halfway through, I thought, ‘‘What has that to do with the 

Census?’’ and she said, ‘‘Well, we are gathering this additional statistical information for other vendors.’’ I was like—— 

Secretary ROSS. For other what? 

Senator HEITKAMP. For other contractors, people who had contracted with Census to gather this information. 

Secretary ROSS. I do not believe that to be the case. 

Senator HEITKAMP. It was remarkable—yes. I think that might 

have happened. It might have been a way to actually help pay for 

the Census. I do not know. Yes. 

Mr. JARMIN. It might have been a survey that we did for another 

agency on a reimbursable basis, so we do—— 
11 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes. That is my point, isn’t it? My point is 

that under the guise of being a citizen, understanding a constitutional citizenship responsibility to actually participate in the Census, all of a sudden I am the data point in something that does not 

have do with counting. 

Mr. JARMIN. Right. 

Senator HEITKAMP. These are the kinds of things. I raise this because it is the kind of thing that makes me go, ‘‘What are you 

doing here?’’ and it builds up a lack of confidence that the public 

would have with Census workers. 

I mean, she was just doing her job. I am not faulting her, but 

I was, quite honestly, struck. I think it is critically important that 

you think about these add-ons or these extras that you are doing 

in terms of data collection because it does negate the relationship 

that you have with the citizen. 

We have lots of questions about how this goes, Secretary. We sit 

here willing to help and understand and appreciate especially with 

special populations, and I know we will probably get another 

round, so I want to ask some questions about special populations. 

But, I want to applaud your answer in understanding that the bulk 

of people, you are going to find pretty easily, and it is the 

marginalized population that we need to work very hard at getting 

to cooperate and counted. 

I think he wants to comment. 

Secretary ROSS. Two other things we are doing to try to build 

confidence, we will be trying to emphasize all the new things we 

are doing about cybersecurity. There are something like 39 upgrades of the cybersecurity from what had been done before, at 

least 24 of which are pretty strong improvements, and we have 

been working very actively with other parts of the Federal Government. We hope to communicate that to the public because people 

are very worried about personnel security. 

It seems as though you cannot pick up a paper without somebody 

being hacked, so we recognize that is a very serious problem. We 

are doing our best, A, to deal with it and, B, to publicize that we 

have dealt with it. 

The other thing I do not think they have done enough publicizing, the limitation on the use of the data, the Title 13 responsibilities. I think we are going to try to emphasize those quite a bit 

so that people know that it will not be used for law enforcement. 

It will not be used to deport them. It will not be used for anything. 

It would just be used for the proper purpose, which is enumeration. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Lankford. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you. I appreciate all of you all on this. 

I am not going to surprise you all because we have had several conversations on this topic before. 

But when you talk about going door to door, the people that are 

most efficient to do that being the United States Postal Service 

(USPS), obviously, that is a wonderful addition. I have advocated 

for a long time. 

Around April 15th, there is also something that goes in the mail 

from almost every single American household. That would be their 
12 

taxes. My question is, Where is the conversation going? What has 

been tested, evaluated, on whether when people turn their taxes in, 

they can also submit their Census data at the same time? 

Secretary ROSS. We are having some discussions with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) about that topic. 

Personally, I must confess I am not convinced that tying the Census to the tax form is going to improve the relationship between 

the Census Bureau and the American public. 

Senator LANKFORD. Will it improve the cost of over $100 per households to actually complete that in $16 billion? 

Secretary ROSS. Well, I do not know. 

As I say, we are having discussions with the IRS about the feasibility of it. We will see. 

I doubt that we would be able to do it in time for 2020 because 

we are too far along. 

Senator LANKFORD. Right. 

Secretary ROSS. But that is no reason not to explore it and try 

to make sure we have a good understanding of it for the next Decennial Census. 

Senator LANKFORD. Do you have any thoughts on that? Have you 

all explored that as a possibility? 

Mr. DODARO. We have not looked at that at all or studied that 

issue. I think it merits discussion. 

The one thing I would note, there is a group called the Tax Policy 

Center, and they estimate that about 17 percent of tax units really 

do not fill out or send in the tax form at all, so you would have 

to deal with that aspect of it. But, I think it should be tested. 

But, the one thing that I would urge the Congress to do, though, 

is to focus on the 2030 Census in 2021. I testified on preparations 

for the 1990 Census between 1985 and 1989 eight times, and every 

time this conversation comes up, about early focus on the next Census after the Decennial is over. But attention gets diverted toward 

other passing issues and the Administration and Congress lost that 

opportunity. Next thing you know, it is too late to make changes 

in the next round in the decennial cycle. 

Senator LANKFORD. Right. 

Mr. DODARO. Passing some legislation requiring some planning 

by the Census Bureau and have some guaranteed funding for them 

up front to test these things out like the IRS option early in the 

10-year cycle would be, I think, a good investment. 

Senator LANKFORD. I would say I share that. This is something 

I brought up to the Secretary of Commerce, obviously before you 

were here, 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, last year, and 

bring it up again. 

My issue is, we are trying to do two things around April 15th, 

and if we want to increase the number of people responding by 

mail, almost every American files something in their taxes at that 

same time period. While there have been some questions about, 

well, we have to be able to hit it exactly on the same date and 

such, if there are legal issues that we need to address as a Congress to be able to help establish that—but I cannot imagine that 

we would not get over 100 million responses and get that checked 

off early and to be done with it and have fewer to be able to chase 

if it is connected to either their return—now they have a financial 
13 

incentive to be able to get that done and in—or to be able to file 

it under penalty of law. 

It does not seem like it is as complicated as it is, but every year, 

I bring it up, and every year, I get we are either looking at it, or 

we are studying it, or it is too late. I am going to continue to bring 

it up because I think it is a multibillion-dollar question to be able 

to be resolved. 

I do have a question as well on resolving the definition of usual 

residence and how that is coming. I know that there are a lot of 

questions about what that really means to people, so what is your 

usual residence when you deal with prison population, overseas 

military, or United States citizens that are living temporarily overseas. What is the conversation on that currently? 

Secretary ROSS. Do you want to take that? 

Mr. JARMIN. Thank you, Senator. I will take that. 

Usual residence for most folks means where they typically reside. 

I think that is a pretty subtle question. I think most people understand that. 

We do have some issues where folks with more than one house 

might respond multiple times, but we have some ways to address 

that. 

But, with military, I think the plan as of right now is that if you 

are deployed in an active duty area, you will be enumerated as of 

the base you are deployed from. If you are based overseas, it will 

be your home of record. 

Senator LANKFORD. OK. 

Mr. JARMIN. Prisons, right now we are planning to do what we 

have always done. There was a Federal Register notice that was 

out. We received 78,000 comments. We are still going through that. 

Until we have made another decision, the way we have done it in 

the past is to record them where they are imprisoned at. 

Senator LANKFORD. And for United States citizens living abroad? 

Mr. JARMIN. I think typically for citizens living abroad, I am not 

sure what the—I think they are typically where they lived—where 

they live regularly in the United States, but if they are permanent 

residents abroad, we do not enumerate them. 

Senator LANKFORD. Right. 

On the cybersecurity and the technology side of it, obviously it 

is a prime spot for hacking and gathering data. That is what I am 

hearing from Gene Dodaro is one of the primary concerns there, 

not only dealing with security and being able to manage it. 

I would also tell you on the flip side of it, it is a prime candidate 

for spearfishing campaigns for a hacker to be able to say, ‘‘Hey, I 

am the Census Bureau,’’ and to send you an email and say, ‘‘Click 

here to complete your Census.’’ If it looks just like your Census information and we are also doing Internet surveys, if there is any 

impression it will come through an email system, that is a very 

prime spot for people to be able to go gather information from a 

spearfishing campaign. 

I would raise that and say that is a concern now. That is not 

something that you can solve immediately, but in your advertising 

campaigns and such, to be able to let people know, ‘‘We will not 

contact you by email unless you have contacted us first,’’ it would 

certainly be a big help. That will be an issue that I would assume 
14 

someone is paying attention to but wanted to just be able to raise 

it as well. 

Thank you. I yield back. 

Secretary ROSS. Perhaps it would be useful if I described some 

of the things that we are doing to try to ensure the security of the 

IT system. Would that be agreeable, Mr. Chairman? 

The Census Bureau publicly facing systems were tested and validated by external cybersecurity experts in 2017, and no weaknesses 

were identified in that process. 

Following best practice, though, to ensure ongoing security of our 

systems, we are conducting another security penetration test for 

the Internet self-response site, and this will be performed by the 

Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in 2018. We hope this 

will ensure that our security architecture is sound and that we are 

following our processes and procedures to minimize security threats 

by keeping the systems up to date. 

From a cybersecurity perspective for 2020, there are a number 

of specific things we have done. We have engaged the Federal intelligence community (IC) directly for proactive assistance. We have 

engaged the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and Department of Homeland Security to provide better secure Internet connections capable of scaling for the Census 2020, and we have 

worked with the Technical Integrator contractor to enhance the 

cybersecurity tools that the Census has at its disposal. 

Specifically, of the items currently being tracked in the 

cybersecurity actions for 2020, not 39 total, 80 percent, which is 24 

of the 39, are considered upgrades from the Census prior 

cybersecurity procedure. The cybersecurity actions have 8 nontechnical and 31 technical solutions. Seventy-five percent of the nontechnical and 60 percent of the technical ones are upgrades from 

previous actions, and we think that those will go a long way toward 

solving the problems. Nobody can guarantee 100 percent 

cybersecurity on anything, so we are doing the best we can. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Hassan. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN 

Senator HASSAN. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for being here today. 

I want to talk in a moment about the particulars of the Census 

in rural areas and post disaster, but, Secretary Ross, I wanted to 

just start by clarifying a couple of things with you. 

As you are aware, former Trump campaign chairman, Paul 

Manafort, and his associate, Rick Gates, were criminally indicted 

yesterday. According to the indictment, Mr. Manafort allegedly 

used companies based in Cyprus to launder millions of dollars into 

the United States that were hidden from the Department of Justice 

(DOJ), the IRS, and others. 

It was also publicly reported that Mr. Manafort wired a million 

dollars to the United States from a mysterious firm through the 

Bank of Cyprus. 

Until you were confirmed Secretary of Commerce, you were a 

major investor in and Vice Chair of the Bank of Cyprus, which is 

the same bank Mr. Manafort reportedly used to transfer 

undeclared income from these offshore entities. 
15 

Secretary Ross, did you have any knowledge of Mr. Manafort’s 

transfers through the Bank of Cyprus? 

Secretary ROSS. No. 

Senator HASSAN. During your tenure at the Bank of Cyprus, did 

you ever discuss any financial matters with Mr. Manafort? 

Secretary ROSS. No. 

Senator HASSAN. Were you aware of any issues related to money 

laundering at the Bank of Cyprus when you were an investor 

there? 

Secretary ROSS. We had procedures to try to monitor laundering 

and trying to prevent it. I am not aware of anything specific relating to Mr. Manafort. 

Senator HASSAN. Thank you. 

Have you been contacted by the Special Counsel’s office regarding this or any other matter? 

Secretary ROSS. No. 

Senator HASSAN. If contacted, would you cooperate with the Special Counsel’s office? 

Secretary ROSS. I would have no reason not to. 

Senator HASSAN. Thank you very much. 

Now on to the Census issues. As you know, we all know how critical the Census count is for congressional apportionment and for 

States to access Federal funding. Therefore, this count is vitally important to people in the Granite State who rely on Federal funding 

for important projects and initiatives across the State. 

Given the geographic diversity of my State but also around the 

country and the many rural communities across our country, could 

you please speak to how the Census Bureau plans to reach rural 

areas specifically? 

Secretary ROSS. As I mentioned before, we are going to be doing 

a lot more advertising than before. Second, if the experiment with 

the postal system works as well as we hope it will, that probably 

will be a very effective way to get to the rural communities because 

the postal system does do a pretty good job covering even rural 

communities. We are hoping that a combination of those two mechanisms. 

Plus, not everybody in rural areas lacks access to Internet. Given 

the Internet solution, may be another convenient tool to make it 

easier for those folks to reply. It is all of those things plus the 

faith-based and other community organizations cooperating with 

us. 

I do not know if you were here when I mentioned we will have 

over 250,000 relationships, whether it is a storefront with a little 

sign in it reminding people about the Census or something else. 

Finally, I mentioned about the experiment of putting kiosks in 

the post offices. Even rural areas have post offices. 

Senator HASSAN. Right. 

Secretary ROSS. A post office is probably a relatively frequently 

visited place in the rural communities. 

Those are changes that we have initiated for this Census, which 

should improve the ability to cover the rural areas. 

Senator HASSAN. I thank you for that, and I think working with 

the Postal Service is a very good idea. 
16 

I will say that it is becoming increasingly clear—we just had a 

field hearing in New Hampshire about broadband and Internet access. I think it is pretty clear that in rural areas, access to the 

Internet is over-counted in our current system because if one person has access in a Census block, it is considered that everybody 

does. The people I my home State would not want anybody to think 

that rural New Hampshire has adequate access to Internet. 

I think the post office initiative is really important, which is another reason that we do not want to be closing post offices in rural 

areas around our country. 

I wanted to move on to the issue of how we conduct the Census 

in light of the number of natural disasters that we have just been 

seeing and that we always have to be prepared for. 

We have seen recent hurricanes and tropical storms devastating 

Florida, Texas, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands, and I just want 

to make sure that we address how these disasters will impact the 

U.S. Census count and what the Census Bureau is doing to accommodate these areas. Can you speak to how the Bureau plans to 

count people in these populations? 

Mr. JARMIN. Thank you for the questions, Senator. 

We dealt with this in 2010 with Hurricane Katrina—— 

Senator HASSAN. Yes. 

Mr. JARMIN [continuing]. And, Hurricane Rita, which displaced a 

large number of folks. We did work between the 2005 hurricanes 

and 2010 trying to understand where people had migrated to using 

the American Community Survey (ACS) as well as administrative 

records. That gave us a pretty good idea, but then in areas where 

the addresses are questionable due to structures being damaged or 

other sort of infrastructure-type issues, we can put more boots on 

the ground, and we have contingencies for that in these operations—or put more boots on the ground to hand-deliver questionnaires and stuff to folks. We have thought through these types 

of—— 

Senator HASSAN. Does your latest budget request reflect that? 

Mr. JARMIN. Yes. 

Senator HASSAN. Thank you very much. 

I yield the remainder of my time. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Harris. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HARRIS 

Senator HARRIS. Thank you. 

Secretary Ross, I think you agree—and I have heard your comments about the Census—that it is a very important process by 

which we count who is in our country, and the spirit behind it 

should be that everyone counts. No one should go uncounted, and 

no one should be invisible. 

To that end, I have a series of questions in terms of the resources 

that have been put into our ability to make sure that everyone is 

counted. 

In 2010, it is my understanding there were 3,800 partnership 

specialists, but the current plan only has a budget for 800 specialists. Can you explain that cut, which is pretty drastic? 

Secretary ROSS. Yes. I believe that that is not quite accurate. I 

believe there were 800 of the partnership specialists, and we have 
17 

taken that number to 1,000. There were also some assistants that 

were brought in. Strangely, part of the stimulus package ended up 

going over to the Census and was used for some fairly junior people 

to support the partnership specialists. 

Census management has concluded that that was a relatively ineffective program, certainly cost ineffective, because the people 

were not very well qualified. 

Instead, what we are doing is increasing the number of more 

qualified people from 800 to 1,000. That is a 25 percent increase, 

and we think that will produce very good results. 

Senator HARRIS. Can you have your Department follow up with 

this Committee on what metrics you have applied to that analysis 

of what the change would be in their abilities? Because it is a pretty drastic change in the overall numbers, and I do agree with you 

that there were additional bodies put in because of the 2009 stimulus, which of course will not repeat itself in this budget year. 

Secretary ROSS. Right. 

Now, remember, when we talk about the partnerships, the partnerships themselves do not do any enumerating. Their job is to encourage people to participate. It is not as though you are taking 

people away from being door knockers at all, and we believe that 

we will end up with the larger number of partnership relationships 

this year than we had before. 

But, as I said, a lot of them, it would just be the guy puts a sign 

in his window or puts some pamphlets or something of that sort, 

so it does not involve very active ongoing participation by the partner. 

Senator HARRIS. However, it is critically important that we put 

as many resources as possible into improving the confidence that 

people have about their relationship with their government and the 

importance of actually being counted. 

We are in an environment now where there are a lot of folks who 

are very distrustful of our government, distrustful of institutions, 

distrustful of leadership in government, and our community partners are probably more important than ever in helping us create 

those relationships of trust or even repair those relationships of 

trust so we can count the folks who are in our neighborhoods. 

Secretary ROSS. Yes. With that in mind, we have started earlier 

on putting the specialists in place. We have 43 in place already. At 

this point in 2007, they had none in place. We are trying—— 

Senator HARRIS. That is good news. 

Secretary ROSS. It is not just a question of how many people. It 

is how long you have them in place—— 

Senator HARRIS. Absolutely. 

Secretary ROSS [continuing]. And, how long they are helping. We 

are trying to get a bit earlier start. 

Senator HARRIS. OK. Well, let us follow up on the metrics you 

have used to change the equation in terms of the numbers. 

There is also a statement that was made by you to the House 

Oversight and Government Reform Committee relating to the distrust in government and what we need to do in terms of making 

sure that everyone is aware of what our purpose is in counting for 

the purposes of the Census. At that Committee, you said, quote, 

you believe it would be illegal for the data to be used for any other 
18 

1The letter referenced by Senator Harris appears in the Appendix on page 85. 

purpose other than the purpose of the Census. Then, you went on 

to say, ‘‘So unless someone commits a crime, I do not think that 

is ever going to happen,’’ meaning you do not think that the data 

would be shared with anyone else. 

Secretary ROSS. That is correct. 

Senator HARRIS. Do you understand that it is illegal to use the 

individual-level Census data for any purpose besides the statistical 

purposes of the Census? 

Secretary ROSS. Yes. I think that is what you just quoted me as 

saying. 

Senator HARRIS. You said unless someone commits a crime. 

Secretary ROSS. No, what I said is that if someone were to reveal 

the data for any other purpose, that would be a crime. If somebody 

becomes a criminal, there is not much we can do about that. 

Senator HARRIS. OK. Can you clarify that? Because there are 

folks out in the world beyond this room who believe that what you 

may have meant is something other than what you are saying you 

did mean. They are under the belief that you may have meant that 

if they committed a crime, such as a violation of the penal code, 

that their information would be shared with agencies beyond the 

purpose of collecting the numbers from the Census. 

Secretary ROSS. All right. Well, then for the record, it is illegal 

to use Census information, the personal information—— 

Senator HARRIS. I agree. 

Secretary ROSS [continuing]. For any other purpose, and anyone 

who does so is a criminal. Is that clear enough? 

Senator HARRIS. If you could restate the purpose of collecting the 

numbers and the information, it is not to share that information 

with any other agency, if the folks that you are speaking with had 

committed a crime. Maybe I can be a little bit more straightforward about it. Let us make sure that it is clear that everyone 

will be counted. Their information will not be shared with law enforcement. If the folks that we are speaking with have committed 

crimes in their community, that information will not be shared 

with law enforcement. 

Secretary ROSS. No. That is absolutely the case. 

Senator HARRIS. OK. I think we need to clear that up because 

I have received a lot of concern about that, statements of concern. 

Secretary ROSS. Well, you have my testimony. 

Senator HARRIS. Would you be willing to have your agency send 

out some kind of statement to make that clear that the agency will 

not share Census information with other Agencies? 

Secretary ROSS. I am reasonably sure that in the material we 

distribute to the homeowners, to the residents, that is covered. If 

it is not covered in detail, we will make sure that it is. 

Senator HARRIS. Senator Carper and I sent a letter to the Census 

on May 22nd asking information about why the Census decided not 

to include a question about sexual orientation or gender identity 

(SOGI).1 We have not received a response. Can you please tell me 

the status of that? 

Secretary ROSS. Sure. Ron. 
19 

Mr. JARMIN. I do not know the status of the response to that particular letter. I will certainly look into it, Senator. 

Senator HARRIS. Can you respond by the end of next week, 

please? 

Mr. JARMIN. We will do our best, yes. 

Senator HARRIS. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Carper. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. Gentlemen, it is nice to see all of you. 

I do not know, Secretary Ross, if you have ever testified with 

Gene Dodaro before. Have you? Is this the first time you have ever 

testified in the same panel with the Comptroller General? 

Secretary ROSS. In this panel, I think it is the first time. Yes, sir. 

Senator CARPER. He has been before this panel, in the years I 

have been here, dozens of times. He never uses a statement to read 

from, never does. I have noticed over the years, though, there is a 

woman who sits right behind him. Whenever he speaks and testifies, I can see her lips move, and so I will not ask her to raise her 

hand. But, you are testifying today with one of the most—— 

Secretary ROSS. I truly do not think it is a ventriloquist dummy. 

Senator CARPER. I do not know. You never know. She is pretty 

good if she is. [Laughter.] 

It is great to see you all. 

I remember when you were kind enough to stop by during your 

confirmation process, and we talked about your experience in college, where you told me that you had been an enumerator. 

Sometimes it is a little difficult. I remember in earlier Administrations, how hard it was to get that Administration, that President, that Secretary of Commerce, to actually focus on this as an 

issue. We ended up with a huge cost overrun, did not get especially 

good results, and it cost a lot more money. 

Tom Coburn, former Senator from Oklahoma, and I spent a number of years, along with our staffs, trying to make sure that that 

did not happen again, but actually having your attention, your interest in this is hugely important. 

We appreciate very much the help of GAO in helping the folks 

at the Department and folks in the Census Bureau to figure out 

how to do this well. 

I think you may have mentioned before—I have been bouncing 

from place to place today, Mr. Secretary, but I understand that you 

may have mentioned while I was out of the room a potential partnerships between the Census and the Postal Service that might 

serve both our interest in getting a better Census for less money 

and also maybe would provide the Postal Service with some interesting and helpful, productive work to do. 

I do not want you to go into it in great depth, but could you just 

give me the CliffsNotes version of that, what you said? 

Secretary ROSS. Yes. We are in negotiations with the USPS to 

see if we can work an arrangement and work it in time for a test 

in Providence. We are doing an end-to-end test in Providence this 

spring. 

What we hope the outcome would be is that when the postal system worker has finished the day’s work, would become a temporary 
20 

employee of ours on our payroll and then conduct the enumeration 

process. Our feeling is, first of all, those are people with very good 

institutional knowledge of occupied and unoccupied residences. I do 

not think anybody views the postal worker as a threatening figure 

coming to their property, and we, therefore think it will help overcome some of the issues that Senator Harris and others have raised 

about people being reluctant to deal with the Federal Government. 

We think that could be a very good help. 

In addition, we are planning an experiment as well putting kiosks with the Census forms in each post office. That was going to 

be especially helpful in rural communities, perhaps with the tribal 

reservation, things of that sort. We are trying to use additional systems for the interaction, and I am particularly intrigued, if we can 

make the postal thing work, it probably would be the most cost-efficient way to improve accuracy of the Census. 

Senator CARPER. Good. Well, good for you, and I am pleased to 

hear those ideas and that partnership. 

All right. Speaking of partnerships, one of the great partnerships 

that I witnessed from over the years between Cabinet Secretaries 

and GAO is about every 2 years, at the beginning of a Congress, 

GAO publishes their high-risk list, high-risk ways of wasting 

money. You may be familiar with it. 

Some Cabinet Secretaries, some Deputy Cabinet Secretaries on a 

fairly—it could be monthly, could be quarterly basis, actually sit 

down with the Comptroller General and go through the items on 

the high-risk list that pertain to their Department and say, ‘‘What 

do we have to do to get off of your high-risk list?’’ It provides for 

a great collaboration and partnerships that some Departments take 

advantage of, I think to the benefit of taxpayers. Some do not. But, 

I just want to plant that seed. I know you are the kind of person 

who is interested in finding ways to save some money and get a 

better outcome in the end. 

Secretary ROSS. We are trying to improve the quality of the relationship, both with the Inspector General (IG) office and with the 

GAO office. 

Senator CARPER. That is great. Yes. 

Secretary ROSS. I think we have made some tangible process in 

that regard. 

There were a total of 84 recommendations that have been made 

earlier by the GAO, and of those 84, 48 have been closed, 36 are 

open, and of the 36 that are open, 7 have action plans, but the due 

date is in the future. That leaves 29, and as to those, we have submitted documents which the GAO is reviewing. They are pretty voluminous documents. 

Some of them, for example, will be the new life-cycle cost estimate, which itself is a pretty huge document. 

Senator CARPER. OK. 

Secretary ROSS. It is going to take a little while for them to review. 

Senator CARPER. Well, good. That is encouraging. 

A question now here. One of the major goals I hope that we can 

achieve with this hearing is having both you, Mr. Secretary, and 

our Comptroller General, GAO, help us identify those milestones 
21 

that we and the Congress, at least for now, need to monitor so that 

we will know whether the Census is on track. 

I would just ask first of the Comptroller General and then maybe 

of you, Mr. Secretary, or Ron, what do we need to be monitoring 

in terms of milestones? 

Mr. DODARO. There are set milestones for the end-to-end test 

that is being conducted that started last August and will end in 

April 2019. There are milestones within that end-to-end test that 

I think are very important. 

For example, the Bureau just finished the address canvassing 

part of it. They will be moving into other phases of it down the 

road, and I would think within those milestones that coincide with 

the end-to-end test would be the perfect opportunity to monitor 

progress. Then having the culmination of a progress check before 

the final decisions in April 2019 going into the 2020 Census would 

be appropriate. 

I would suggest that we chart it with the already established 

milestones that the Commerce Department and Census have for 

the end-to-end test. 

Senator CARPER. Dr. Jarmin. 

Secretary ROSS. I agree with that. 

Senator CARPER. You do? OK, good. Thank you. 

Dr. Jarmin, anything you want to add? 

Mr. JARMIN. No. I absolutely agree with that, and I think it is 

important for everyone to review the results of the end-to-end test 

and everyone be on board to what the final design decisions are 

going to be for the 2020 and to have partnership and outreach in 

place and be ready to hit the ground running once the clock turns 

over to 2020. 

Senator CARPER. I want to say, Mr. Chairman, and to our acting 

Ranking Member, whose birthday was yesterday, one of the joys for 

me in the work that we do here is actually when we work together 

for a good purpose and also when, in this case—the Comptroller 

General is an independent watchdog, but to have the Administration work in collaboration with GAO and the Inspector General, 

that is all very encouraging. Only good things can come from that, 

so keep it up. 

Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Speaking of birthdays, Dr. Jarmin got the 

present of having his birthday today as well, getting to testify. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator Peters. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS 

Senator PETERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and to the witnesses, thank you for your testimony today. It is a very important 

Census. This is an incredibly important program for the Federal 

Government. We have to get it right, and thank you for all of your 

efforts in that regard. 

I have a few questions related to your work in the Census, but 

before I ask those questions, I have a couple of other issues that 

are very important to the folks in Michigan. Mr. Secretary, if I 

could just raise these with you briefly and then go to some Census 

questions. 
22 

The first one I want to address is something that you and I spoke 

about in my office prior to your confirmation. I also brought it up 

in the confirmation hearing, and that is the ability of the Commerce Department to engage in self-initiated investigations, trade 

practices, and enforce those trade agreements. 

Currently, I am working on some bipartisan legislation, working 

with one of my Republican colleagues to help address this issue. It 

creates a self-initiation task force that would be directly under your 

purview as the Secretary to help track and identify cases for a referral for antidumping investigation. This is especially important, 

as I know you are well aware, for small businesses that face trade 

abuses but lack the resources to go after those folks because of a 

very lengthy and a very expensive process of petitioning the government. 

I understand that our staffs are working. They are in touch. We 

are expecting some feedback from them, but I certainly hope to get 

your support. I know this is something you were interested in. 

Secretary ROSS. As I think you know, I am a great proponent of 

self-initiation not only for the reason you mentioned, that in many 

industries where the companies are small, the $2-million-or-so cost 

of their initiation can be a very daunting issue. 

But, there is also another reason for it. Many of the companies 

that are victimized here also have operations in the countries of 

the perpetrators, and they are very concerned about retaliation by 

those host jurisdictions. Self-initiation also has the therapeutic effect of being Commerce Department as a buffer between the potential petitioner and the country who is the bad actor. 

In aggregate figures, we have brought 48 percent more trade 

cases so far this year than was done during the same period under 

the prior Administration, and I think that speaks louder even than 

words about our determination to enforce proper trading rules. 

I think you will also note that while it has become a little political controversial, we have also been imposing quite large tariffs 

where they are warranted by the facts, particularly where the offending company refuses to cooperate, and we have to rely on the 

adverse status applied by the petitioner or in the case of self-initiation by ourselves. 

We are moving very hard to deal with the offenders. It is so hard 

getting trade cases, anyway, but it is very important that we enforce them and very important, too, that we collect them. 

I think you are aware the President has issued an Executive 

Order (EO) that makes it much more likely that we will be able 

to collect the actual tariffs. When I came to office, I learned to my 

horror that there are literally billions of dollars of antidumping and 

countervailing duties that were never collected because they were 

letting the importers use shell companies, and by the time the case 

was concluded, there was nothing there. There was nobody to extract the fine from. 

We are trying to tighten up every aspect of it, but on the narrower issue of self-initiation, I am 100 percent on board with that 

idea. 

Senator PETERS. Right. That is great to hear, Mr. Secretary. 
23 

If you will indulge me, I have one other trade issue, and I appreciate all your comments on trade-related issues. But, I have one 

more that I must mention. 

As I am sure you are aware, I sent a letter to you recently along 

with a number of my colleagues urging that you and the President 

come to a prompt conclusion on the steel and aluminum 232 reviews. I know the steel industry is something you know very well, 

Mr. Secretary, and I think you also know that delay is causing 

some real harm to American workers. 

I think we are especially alarmed at comments that you made 

that suggested you may want to wait until after tax reform passes. 

It is a topic that I think is unrelated to this trade issue, and it may 

take some time to resolve that. I certainly hope that you are able 

to address this issue sooner rather than later. I am certainly hearing a great deal about it from both manufacturers and workers in 

Michigan. 

Secretary ROSS. I think we recognize the full parameters of the 

steel situation, and I am eager to get things going. We have to conform, however, with Administration policies, and we are. 

Senator PETERS. Very good. 

Now to a Census-related question, Mr. Secretary. Michigan, as I 

know you know as well from your work in Michigan, has a very vibrant Middle Eastern-American community who have been advocating for decades for the addition of a Middle Eastern and North 

African (MENA), race and ethnicity category to the Census. 

Earlier this year, the Census Bureau, I think, made a very positive step by approving the category for the 2020 Census. It now 

waits final approval by the Office of Management and Budget. 

This category will allow for a more accurate representation of 

these communities in our country and economy, and I think it will 

also provide or I should say it will ensure that there is equitable 

allocation of government services for these communities, particularly such programs like English as a second language program. 

However, some in the community have expressed concern, and 

we have heard other concerns, I think, from some of my colleagues 

here today about the potential use of this data for purposes other 

than statistical information. I would just like you to commit, Mr. 

Secretary, that the information that is going to be collected by the 

Census Bureau for the 2020 Census regarding Middle EasternAmerican communities will be used for statistical purposes only 

and will fully adhere to the privacy protections under Title 13. 

Secretary ROSS. That is the law, and I intend to uphold the law. 

Senator PETERS. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Daines. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR DAINES 

Senator DAINES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you for testifying here today. 

The Census is something required by the Constitution, in fact, 

and so it is of critical national importance. It is necessary to have 

good data in order for equitable representation in Congress. In fact, 

if I asked a trivia question—and I will not ask it. It is rhetorical. 

But, which congressional district is the largest congressional district by population in the United States out of 435? The answer is 
24 

Montana, which usually is not the first answer by most, but we 

have 1,040,000 Montanans. We used to have two Members of Congress. We have one today like North Dakota. 

It is important because this Census data is important, because 

it determines congressional representation but it is also important 

for government to efficiently use the taxpayer resources, which of 

course are very limited. 

I understand the latest cost estimate for the 2020 Census is over 

$15 billion. Even small inefficiencies can lead to a significant waste 

of taxpayer dollars. 

Secretary Ross, it is good to see you again. Thank you for coming 

up to the Hill today. While there are years of unimplemented GAO 

and IG recommendations that are left over from the last Administration, one of my key concerns is the protection of Americans’ personal information. 

The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) hack compromised 

over 20 million Americans. In fact, I was in the private sector for 

28 years and never received a letter from my human resources 

(HR) department until I became an employee of the Federal Government because I was elected to Congress, and I got my first letter saying my personally identifiable information (PII) had been 

compromised. 

But the Census Bureau holds PII on nearly every American. I 

understand a Census contractor was compromised just this past 

January. 

The question is, What are you doing to boost cybersecurity and 

ensure that Americans’ data is protected and used as intended by 

the Constitution? 

Mr. JARMIN. Thank you, Senator. 

We take the cybersecurity and physical security, for that matter, 

of the data assets that are entrusted to us by the American public 

and the American business community very seriously. The support, 

while many of our surveys and Censuses are mandatory by law, it 

is largely the voluntary response of our citizens and our businesses 

that provide the data that we use for our purposes, and without 

their trust and their willingness to share that information with us, 

we are sort of in a pickle. 

We have put cybersecurity sort of front and center for our preparations for the 2020 Census. The Secretary already discussed 

some of the things we have been doing earlier today, 39 new 

cybersecurity measures that are new to the Census Bureau. We 

tested our publicly facing systems earlier this year with the help 

of folks from the Department of Homeland Security. A clean bill of 

health, but we are staying on top of this constantly. This is something that we are going to be working on with other experts in the 

government and the private sector to ensure that we are doing everything that we can to ensure that the data are secure. 

Senator DAINES. Thank you. 

I remember when we had the compromise with the OPM a while 

back, and being involved in some of their briefings. I came out of 

a cloud computing business, and my jaw dropped as to how archaic, 

antiquated, slow-moving—it is typical Federal Government bureaucracy, but it is good to have some new leadership, truly. 
25 

Secretary Ross, I would like to shift gears and discuss softwood 

lumber and the dispute currently between the United States and 

Canada. 

Our forests in Montana and our lumber mills create some of the 

highest-quality lumber in the world, and if they provide a level 

playing field, of course, there is great potential for economic growth 

in Montana. 

We just came through a horrible fire season in Montana. We 

have lost a lot of our mills. When I was a kid growing up in Montana, we had 30 active sawmills. Today, we are down to eight. 

I greatly appreciate your leadership on this issue, Secretary 

Ross, your Department’s work on it, and its preliminary determination that Canadian producers have been dumping in the United 

States. But, I have heard concerns about some of the delays in finalizing these duties. 

The question is, where do you see this going and would you commit to finalizing these duties as expeditiously as possible? 

Secretary ROSS. As you are aware, our preliminary finding was 

that they would pay tariffs equal to about $1.1 million per year, 

which is a pretty large tariff by anybody’s imagination. 

Then ensued some negotiations, which we helped to initiate between the American Lumber Coalition, which was the petitioner, 

and the Canadian producers and the Canadian government. Within 

the next day or two, we should find out whether those negotiations 

are going to actually bear fruit and have a permanent solution 

contractualized or whether we will simply revert to the tariff and 

go on as we had started out doing. 

We are at the decisionmaking point in time, and as I say, it will 

be a matter of days, not weeks, before that gets resolved. 

Senator DAINES. Right. Thank you. It is always refreshing to 

hear the word ‘‘days’’ expressed up here on Capitol Hill versus 

weeks or years or decades or millenniums, it seems like sometimes. 

Secretary ROSS. No, days. 

Senator DAINES. Thank you. 

Secretary ROSS. Small number of days. 

Senator DAINES. I appreciate it. 

Secretary Ross, you are managing a number of other trade disputes and agreements. I realize your to-do list is quite long. We 

need to get more of President Trump’s team in place to fight for 

this level playing field for American companies both at home as 

well as abroad. 

I was very disappointed last week when Democratic leader Schumer was going to block nominees to the Department of Commerce, 

some of whom will focus on international trade. How have these 

critical vacancies impeded the Department’s work on behalf of the 

American people? 

Secretary ROSS. Of the nominees, one particularly, Gil Kaplan, is 

an extremely experienced party, and trade enforcement and international treaties would be the main thing he would be doing. That 

one alone has denied us a very senior person who could be very 

useful with all the things that are going on at present. I think it 

is unfortunate that for unrelated reasons, reasons having nothing 

to do with the qualifications of the nominees, they passed through 
26 

the Committee with very good results. I think they were both 

unanimously voted out of Committee, if I am not mistaken. 

Senator DAINES. Yes. Secretary Ross, thank you. I am out of 

time. 

The tragedy here is that the people that get hurt here are the 

hardworking American people, and the problem you have is when 

you have highly qualified individuals who are willing to do these 

jobs, you do not have all day to wait for them. They can go find 

other work. 

And so, I want to thank the nominees for their patience and tell 

them to hang in there, and we will do all we can working with you 

to get these nominees through the U.S. Senate. 

Secretary ROSS. Thank you because it is hard to have people be 

in a state of suspended animation month after month. 

Senator DAINES. It is. 

Secretary ROSS. I think we owe them a decision one way or the 

other. 

Senator DAINES. We do. If we want to have the best and brightest in public service, we need to treat them, frankly, with more respect and move them through in a more timely manner. 

Thank you. 

Secretary ROSS. Thank you, Senator. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Heitkamp. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you. 

Just a couple of points, Secretary Ross. You talked about kiosks 

in post offices. Frequently, the marginalized populations in our 

urban areas visit the library a lot, and working with libraries and 

communities can be very instrumental. They are trained to do outreach with a lot of populations. Have you developed any relationships with the public library system? 

Secretary ROSS. Quite a few of the libraries are part of the 

250,000-odd relationships that we have. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes. I would just recommend that if you really want to look at a plus multiplier on marginalized and 

disenfranchised populations, homeless populations, chances are you 

are going to find a lot of those folks in the public library. It is 

where they have access to the Internet. They would not otherwise 

have it. 

There are also folks there who if we were able to do some collaboration and some cooperation in terms of money, you could be very 

helpful to the public library system as well. I would just make that 

recommendation. 

Secretary ROSS. We have been trying to do that. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes. I think you will find them very willing. 

Frequently, the library staff spends a lot of time registering people 

to vote. It is where people go who feel like they do not know how 

to manipulate kind of government systems. 

Gene, you testified that your office responsibility for overseeing 

the technical integration contractor is severely understaffed, that 

the office is understaffed. I am wondering what gets in the way of 

filling those critical positions, and I am concerned about, number 

one, whether the Federal hiring freeze delayed it unnecessarily and 

do we need to take a look at hiring systems for the Census. 
27 

I think we are all in a period of low unemployment. We are at 

that spot, and in changes in the workforce where you used to be 

able to hire temporary workers, that would be older, seniors, or 

women who worked outside the home or the second wage earner, 

which would be much more part-time. We do not have that workforce anymore. What do we need to do? 

I guess this would be a question for both of you: What do we 

need to do in terms of recruiting workforce? 

Secretary ROSS. One of the things we changed in the budget was 

we raised the amount that we think we will have to pay per hour. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Mr. Secretary, right now what is that 

amount per hour? 

Secretary ROSS. $17.50, which I think for part-time work is a 

pretty good number, and it is certainly higher than what they were 

using. 

Senator HEITKAMP. This is W–2 income, right? It is not 1099 income? 

Secretary ROSS. Yes. Oh, sure. Census is not going to have people off the books. 

Senator HEITKAMP. OK. Gene. 

Mr. DODARO. One thing I would suggest that the Department 

consider as well, Secretary Ross mentioned that they were using 

off-duty Postal Service people—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes. 

Mr. DODARO [continuing]. And we should see how that works. 

But another possibility, would be to hire retired Postal Service employees because in using existing Postal Service employees, their 

salaries are three times the cost of a Census worker. 

But, Congress would have to give or OPM could give a waiver 

authority to the Secretary to waive the offset for the retired worker’s annuity. Right now, if you are a retired Federal employee, you 

are receiving an annuity. If you take another job, you get your annuity offset, but if that is waived, then potentially—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. Incentive. 

Mr. DODARO [continuing]. You could bring in retired postal employees at a lower rate. You could pay them the Census rate to 

augment their retirement income, and, with an appropriate waiver, 

it would not affect their annuities. You would get the biggest benefit with the least cost. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I do not want to be the head of the Census 

Bureau, but I want to offer a couple suggestions. In addition to 

postal workers, you have retired United Parcel Service (UPS) or 

off-duty UPS, Federal Express (FedEx) workers. Those folks know 

almost as much in North Dakota about—especially in rural areas, 

where people live because they deliver to all these places. 

Mr. DODARO. Right. 

Senator HEITKAMP. They could be a very helpful group as well 

in addition to the Postal Service. 

Secretary ROSS. It could very well be. It is a little bit harder to 

find the retirees than it is to find the active employees because a 

lot of them no longer stay in the area where they were delivering 

mail. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I would tell you that is probably not true in 

North Dakota. Not true in rural areas. 
28 

Secretary ROSS. I also think that making too many changes at 

one time can lead to a lot of confusion. If we can pull off the postal 

workers this time, I think that will be a very big achievement and 

something that one could build upon in the 2020 Census. 

Senator HEITKAMP. OK. 

I want to ask one question for Senator McCaskill, and it has to 

do with the Integrated Partnership and Communication Program. 

We were supposed to see the final plan delivered in June. We do 

not have it yet. When can we expect that we will receive that plan? 

Mr. JARMIN. Senator, we released that Friday at our quarterly 

program management review. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Well, I am going to tell Claire, do not give 

me a question there is already an answer. [Laughter.] 

Mr. JARMIN. It is available online. 

Senator HEITKAMP. OK. 

Mr. JARMIN. Can I just add one more thing? 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes. 

Mr. JARMIN. When we were talking about the staff shortage for 

managing the TI contracts, the additional request for $187 million 

in this fiscal year, that is one of the areas we are trying to address, 

is some of that money was earmarked for, bolstering our program 

management office, and so that is something we are trying to address with this extra request. 

This deep dive that we have done sort of exposed these things 

enough where we want to—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. I can just tell you in North Dakota, you are 

going to have a heck of a time hiring Census workers. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Even though the retirees do not flee South? 

[Laughter.] 

Thank you, Senator Heitkamp. 

I asked Gene this question, and I want to ask Secretary Ross and 

Dr. Jarmin the same thing. What is your primary concern? Again, 

we have had a lot of really good questions, a lot of good input here. 

I appreciate it. What is the one thing you are primarily concerned 

about? What keeps you up, awake at night, based on the 2020 Census? 

Secretary ROSS. It is actually two things. One is the task of hiring 500,000 people on a temporary basis. I was not here in 2010, 

obviously, but in that environment, it would have been a lot easier 

hiring people than now, particularly qualified people. 

The other part is just the enormity of the task, the technological 

task, the changes, and the ramping up. This would be a major challenge for a huge well-run American company, let alone for a government agency that really only functions in this capacity once 

every 10 years. It is a very tough combination of things. 

But, the only way we think we can respond is by intense attention to detail, intense attention to focus, and really leaning in on 

the process. That is what was not happening so much before. I 

promise you, it is happening right now. 

Chairman JOHNSON. There is not one manufacturing company 

that I visited in 7 years traveling around the State of Wisconsin 

that could hire enough people. If you could get that word out to the 

rest of the members of the Administration, we have a real worker 
29 

1The letter referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 81. 

shortage in this country, certainly in Wisconsin, probably North 

Dakota and elsewhere as well. I share your concern. Dr. Jarmin. 

Mr. JARMIN. I would say my number one concern is to make sure 

that we have enough resources to finish the 2018 test and to make 

sure that everything is ready to go when we start hiring those 

500,000 people, so just making sure that we are ready to go when 

it is time to hit the start button. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Let me tell you one of my concerns, and I 

wrote to Secretary Ross on this on June 5th. In 2016, the Bureau 

awarded an advertising contract that included a subcontractor with 

close ties to partisan politics. The contract at the time was awarded, quote, ‘‘for services and multiple communication areas to support building awareness and promoting self-responses for the 2020 

Census. 

On August 24, 2016, the Bureau awarded the contract to Young 

and Rubicam and several named subcontractors, including Civis 

Analytics.’’ Civis describes itself, quote, ‘‘as a platform for hope and 

change,’’ that started, quote, ‘‘in a mission for President Obama’s 

reelection campaign.’’ The firm’s Chief Executive Officer (CEO) 

stated that, quote, ‘‘The Obama reelection campaign set the values 

of the company,’’ and that Civis would work exclusively on Democratic campaigns. 

Civis’ clients included Organizing for Action, a group that grew 

out of President Obama’s campaign machine, and Rural Action, a 

group created to support Obamacare and President Obama’s 2012 

election campaign. 

I have heard word that the Census is going to potentially use 

statistics rather than count and use a more sophisticated campaign. We are talking about these partnership programs which 

make an awful lot of sense, but if we have already entered into 

contracts, awarded contracts with organizations that are allied 

with such partisan politics, that really concerns me. 

Secretary Ross, again, I wrote this letter.1 We have not received 

a formal response, but I will just ask you: What kind of controls 

are in place with these contractors that we are utilizing for the 

Census? 

Secretary ROSS. OK. Well, that is quite a lot. This has been an 

area of very intense focus on our part. They were, as you point out, 

subcontractors to Young & Rubicam. Their function is simply to 

provide some data from bases that they have and merge those data 

streams into other data streams that Census already has. 

Here is the way that we are having it work. It is called the Civis 

Household Database, and that is provided in support of the Integrated Communications Campaign. Their input is solely to help us 

figure out what kinds of advertising to use to try to reach different 

parts of the population. 

Second, they contain data on approximately 240 million U.S. 

adult residents, and Civis estimates that their coverage of that 

data is somewhere between 85 and 95 percent of all adult individuals. 

There are three primary ways to make sure that this information 

is not misused. One, no partisan information is used at all in any 
30 

part of the Integrated Communications Campaign. Second, no Civis 

employees currently working on any political campaign are permitted to work on the Census project. Third, Title 13 obligations 

obviously extend to all employees, including the Civis employees, 

and we have made that very clear to them. 

Neither the team, Young & Rubicam, nor the Census Bureau will 

have access to partisan information during the development, the 

planning, or execution of the Census campaign. Just as Civis now 

segregates their political team from the government team, Civis 

also segregates political and governmental data. 

Once their information gets into our system, they really have no 

access to it, and they have no unfettered access to our systems and 

our data at any time. Their function is to supply some data and 

answer questions that arise from the Census team and from other 

parts of Young & Rubicam. 

Their work is very largely completed at this point. We have had 

pretty much the data inputs from them. I do not think they will 

be all that present going forward, but those are the measures that 

we have taken to them. 

Now, the sources of data that they use are interesting. One is 

called TargetSmart. One is model data that would derive mathematically from the Civis model itself. Third, they use a bunch of 

publicly available Federal data from the Center for Medicare and 

Medicaid Services; the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Pilot 

Certification Registry; Federal Data Center; the Census’ own 2010 

public data; the Public Use Microdata Sample, the PUMS from the 

2011 Census; County Business Patterns, the U.S. Customs and 

Border Protection (CBP) from Census; the American Community 

Survey; Planning Database; County Health Rankings; IRS; and Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS); as well as Social Security Administration (SSA) 2013 data; the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) 

crime statistics from 2013; U.S. Department of Agriculture 

(USDA)—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. OK. We have a vote going on. 

Secretary ROSS. OK. 

Chairman JOHNSON. You can answer my letter. I am very 

pleased to hear that you are fully aware of this. We do not want 

partisanship on either side of the spectrum. 

Secretary ROSS. We agree with that. 

Chairman JOHNSON. I am comforted by your answer that you 

seem to be fully aware of it, on top of it, and I would just encourage 

you to do so. 

Gene, I really do appreciate your suggestion on the postal workers. I have already leaned over to my staff and said that is a piece 

of legislation that we maybe want to propose, so I want to work 

with you on that. 

I want to thank, again, Secretary Ross, Dr. Jarmin, and Gene on 

your excellent testimony. We will continue to work on this. This is 

incredibly important that we get the 2020 Census correct in a completely nonpartisan fashion for all the purposes the Federal Government uses it for. 

With that, the hearing record will remain open for 15 days until 

November 15th, 5 p.m., for the submission of statements and questions for the record. 
31 

This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 4:14 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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