U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

29–658 PDF WASHINGTON : 2018

S. Hrg. 115–391 

2017 HURRICANE SEASON: OVERSIGHT OF THE 

FEDERAL RESPONSE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

OCTOBER 31, 2017 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin, Chairman 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota 

STEVE DAINES, Montana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

JON TESTER, Montana 

HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota 

GARY C. PETERS, Michigan 

MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire 

KAMALA D. HARRIS, California 

CHRISTOPHER R. HIXON, Staff Director 

GABRIELLE D’ADAMO SINGER, Chief Counsel 

NATALIE F. ENCLADE, U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Office of Inspector General Detailee 

MARGARET E. DAUM, Minority Staff Director 

JOEL F. WALSH, Minority Investigator 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Chief Clerk 

BONNI E. DINERSTEIN, Hearing Clerk 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 1 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 4 

Senator Tester .................................................................................................. 20 

Senator Peters .................................................................................................. 23 

Senator Harris .................................................................................................. 26 

Senator Lankford .............................................................................................. 28 

Senator Heitkamp ............................................................................................ 31 

Senator Hassan ................................................................................................. 34 

Senator Daines ................................................................................................. 37 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Johnson ............................................................................................... 45 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 46 

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 31, 2017 

Honorable William B. ‘‘Brock’’ Long, Administrator, Federal Emergency Management Agency, U.S. Department of Homeland Security ............................... 7 

Robert G. Salesses, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Homeland 

Defense Integration and Defense Support of Civil Authorities, U.S. Department of Defense .................................................................................................... 9 

Major General Donald E. ‘‘Ed’’ Jackson, Deputy Commanding General for 

Civil and Emergency Operations, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, U.S. Department of Defense ............................................................................................. 11 

Honorable Robert P. Kadlec, M.D., Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and 

Response, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services ........................... 13 

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Jackson, Major General Donald E.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 11 

Joint prepared statement ................................................................................. 61 

Kadlec, Hon. Robert P. M.D.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 13 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 72 

Long, Hon. William B.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 51 

Salesses, Robert G.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 9 

Joint prepared statement ................................................................................. 61 

APPENDIX 

FEMA Declarations chart ....................................................................................... 82 

Senator Peters letter ............................................................................................... 83 

Senator Harris letter ............................................................................................... 88 

Statements submitted for the Record: 

American Federation of Government Employees ........................................... 92 

Healthcare Ready ............................................................................................. 94 

National Association of Councils on Developmental Disabilities ................. 101 

Project on Government Oversight ................................................................... 107 

Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record: 

Mr. Long ............................................................................................................ 114 
Page

IV 

Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record—Continued 

Mr. Salesses ...................................................................................................... 351 

Mr. Jackson ....................................................................................................... 360 

Mr. Kadlec ......................................................................................................... 430 
(1) 

2017 HURRICANE SEASON: OVERSIGHT OF 

THE FEDERAL RESPONSE 

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 31, 2017 

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ron Johnson, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Johnson, Lankford, Hoeven, Daines, Carper, 

Tester, Heitkamp, Peters, Hassan, and Harris. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHNSON 

Chairman JOHNSON. Good morning. This hearing will come to 

order. 

I would like to say, on the one hand, it is nice to see Senator 

Carper acting as my Ranking Member, but the circumstances are 

unfortunate, to say the least. Senator McCaskill’s husband is in the 

Intensive Care Unit (ICU), and so Senator McCaskill is with him 

in Missouri. So. we certainly want to send them our thoughts and 

prayers, for Claire, for Joe, and for their family members as well. 

Senator CARPER. I would just mention to our Chair, I texted with 

Claire last night to see how he is doing. Apparently, he had a massive heart attack, a very serious heart attack, and he had, I think 

it was, an internal defibrillator that may have saved his life. And, 

there are still blockages to worry about and I think some additional 

surgical work that needs to be done. So, to what the Chairman 

said, we will keep him in our thoughts and prayers. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. 

I also want to thank our witnesses, not only for being here, for 

your testimony, and for what you are about to answer in terms of 

our questions, but really for the last 21⁄2 months. I have been to 

the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA’s) Response 

Center. I have talked to the men and women that are working with 

you, I think doing an extraordinary job, working 12-hour shifts, 7 

days in a row, for literally weeks, months on end. So, this has been 

unprecedented starting back in late August with Hurricane Harvey 

and then Hurricane Irma and then Hurricane Maria within literally a span of 30 days. We just have not seen anything like this. 

And, I think it is pretty heartening, really, after Hurricane 

Katrina, the lessons learned, a lot of those lessons have been put 

into place and used to rather great effect. But, when you have hurricanes and disasters of this magnitude, you cannot just snap your 
2 

1The chart referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 82. 

fingers and make it all well again. This is going to be a recovery 

effort that is going to go on for years, but I think the response— 

and I think we will hear that in testimony today—has really been 

quite extraordinary. Nothing is ever perfect. You can always have 

continuous improvement. But, again, I think the men and women 

that work with you in all of your agencies really need to be commended, and I think in terms of your management of them, that 

also needs to be commended as well. So, again, I thank you, and 

I think this Committee thanks you as well. 

This will be what I consider the first in a series of hearings. It 

really from my standpoint started with the high-risk hearing when 

I asked Inspector General (IG) Roth to take a look at the problems 

in FEMA grant lending, how we spend money in emergency situations, what kind of controls. And, Inspector General Roth responded very quickly, in a June 2nd, a letter to me made a number 

of recommendations which we have turned into a piece of draft legislation, working with Senator McCaskill, also Senator Daines, and 

anybody else on this Committee who wanted to start working with 

us on that. We have been talking to appropriators on how to potentially marry that with some of the emergency funding requests, the 

supplemental funding requests that we are passing here. 

We are spending a lot of money, and it needs to be controlled, 

and I think the issue with Whitefish—and I am sure we will get 

into that—is just Exhibit A of how careful we need to be in terms 

of how we spend the taxpayers’ hard-earned money. 

I certainly see with Director Long’s testimony, we do need to review and lay out FEMA’s proper role within the emergency management response. It is a subordinate role. If we can quick put up 

the chart1 there. Everybody has this as well. This is just a history 

that was put together I think by the Heritage Foundation. It only 

goes up to 2011. It just shows the history of FEMA declarations of 

emergencies, and it is really striking. Back in the 1950s, there 

were somewhere between 7 and 18 a year. In 2011, a high watermark, 242 Federal disaster declarations or FEMA declarations. 

There are a number of reasons for that. Certainly, we continue 

to build. We have that moral hazard. We continue to build and rebuild in flood zones and hurricane zones, and property values are 

increasing dramatically. But, also, I think more and more often 

States are looking to the Federal Government to do what I believe 

was probably more suited toward State and local response. As a result, it puts a great deal of stress on Federal disaster resources and 

certainly FEMA, and I am sure, Director Long, you have felt some 

of that pressure over the last couple days. 

So, I think it is appropriate for this Committee long term to really take a look at what is the proper balance between State and 

local response and the Federal response in these situations. From 

my standpoint, as much as we can rely on the State in terms of 

preparation, standing up those emergency centers and the response 

before these disasters occur, the better off we are all going to be. 

So, I want to make sure we are talking a little bit about that during the hearing. 
3 

I did go down to Puerto Rico. I was down there on the 7th, about 

21⁄2 weeks afterwards. I will say that my initial response, having 

flown over in a low-flying helicopter about a quarter or a third of 

the island, I was first relieved that the property damage was not 

as extensive as I was expecting it to be. Now, there is no doubt 

about it, there is devastation. There is property totally destroyed. 

But, I had seen pictures of St. Martin. And then, just the basic 

stats, 21⁄2 weeks, 22 of the 23 ports have been opened. More than 

70 percent of both gas stations and grocery stores were already 

open. A third of the roads were open. But, as we flew over, it 

looked like in excess of 90 percent were clear, but obviously blocked 

at certain choke points. 

Cell phone companies responded pretty appropriately, kind of 

shared the burden, cordoned off the island, fixed each other’s towers. So, it will be interesting to hear what percent the cell phone 

service is back and operational. All 78 of the municipalities back 

then were already accessible by road, so the logistics problem was 

being eased. But, the biggest problem at that point in time was 

only 12 percent of the electrical power had been brought back online. 

So, I returned convinced and I think I continue to be convinced 

that the primary problem long term now with Puerto Rico, and 

even before the disaster, was the power grid. It was weak. It was 

fragile before the hurricane, and now it is offline, and it is a very 

complex problem trying to reestablish and maintain the balance of 

the electrical grid. And, we are going to be spending an awful lot 

of money, and from my standpoint that has to be controlled. And, 

what money we spend hopefully can be spent in a manner that we 

create a more resilient electrical grid that will power a vibrant 

economy in Puerto Rico for generations to come. 

My last point is I have been in contact with the Chairman of the 

Financial Oversight and Management Board, and I just received an 

email or a text from him last night. They met, and I am just going 

to quick read you the text that I will enter into the record: ‘‘The 

Federal Oversight Board unanimously has asked for a chief transformation officer to take over the administration of the power authority in order to reestablish power as quickly as possible. But, 

moreover, we must transform the energy sector and ensure lowercost, more reliable power. In order to do that, we have to de-politicize the authority, open it up to competition in order to attract private capital. Puerto Rico does not want to return to D.C. with hat 

in hand in the future. The person the Board has named is a retired 

Air Force colonel who has organizational and transformational experience, including management of energy and infrastructure 

projects.’’ That was signed by Jose Carrion, the Chairman of the Financial Oversight and Management Board. So, they recognize the 

fact that we have a real problem with the governance of, the public 

ownership of Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority (PREPA), and, 

again, that was Exhibit A based on that $300 million contract, 

which apparently now has been pulled back with Whitefish. 

But, again, I just want to thank the witnesses, and I will turn 

it over to Senator Carper for any opening statement he wants to 

make. 
4 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. Thank you so much. Thank you for bringing us 

together, Mr. Chairman. I know a couple of weeks ago Senator 

McCaskill had called for a bipartisan investigation, scheduling a 

series of hearings. I am delighted to hear that this is not the last 

but the first of several. 

I want to express as well our thanks and appreciation to those 

at the table before us, those who work with you, for you, for the 

extraordinary work they are doing. 

I believe that in the last 100 years or so, we have had a total 

of 33 Category 5 hurricanes that have struck the United States, 33 

in 100 years, and we had literally 2 within weeks of each other this 

year. Our friends at the Government Accountability Office (GAO) 

present to each year, as you will recall, a High-Risk List about 

every other year, beginning of each Congress, of things that we 

need to focus on, ways that if we did we could save some money. 

They for years have now been saying one of our high risks is the 

incidence of extreme weather and the costs that it is imposing on 

the Federal budget, and the cost here is just extraordinary. And, 

I think in terms of root causes, we need to keep that in mind. 

I am delighted to hear the Chairman mentioned the electric grid 

in Puerto Rico. I oftentimes quote Albert Einstein, who said famously, ‘‘In adversity lies opportunity.’’ And, as bad as the adversity here is, there is also opportunity, especially with respect to the 

electric grid. Most of the people, as I understand—I have been to 

Puerto Rico a number of times, as a naval flight officer (NFO) operating out of Roosevelt Roads, as a Governor hosted by Pedro 

Rossello when he was Governor, part of the National Governors Association (NGA), and just as a family vacation, and was around the 

island a fair amount. And, my recollection is that most of the 

power is generated in the south of the island. Most of the people 

live in the north of the island. Most of the power is generated from 

diesel power generators and utilities. And it is dirty, it is expensive. The cost for electricity in Puerto Rico I am told is roughly 

twice what we pay here in the Mainland. And, they have an opportunity. I talked with Governor Rossello yesterday, who I remember 

when he was basically a teenager. His Dad and I were contemporaries together in the National Governors Association. But we 

talked about his vision, and his vision would be to move power generation from the south to the north where the people are so they 

do not have to transmit all that electricity from one side of the island to the other, and not only to use natural gas, bring down the 

costs. And right now, the diesel fuel comes, I think, mostly from 

South America, including Venezuela. And, we are not sure that 

that is a good place to be dependent on. And, the idea of having 

the ability of large ships to come in with natural gas to the north, 

to have power generation there, and to also—the Governor said to 

me his goal in time is to step up, increase their generation of electricity from renewables, including solar and wind and others, 

maybe including distributed generation of electricity and things 

like fuel cell-powered generators for electricity, especially to help in 

hospitals and places like that. 

I want to go back to my prepared comments here, if I could. I 

am proud of our Delaware National Guard. We have had Delaware 
5 

National Guard units deployed to Texas, to Florida, to Puerto Rico, 

and the U.S. Virgin Islands (USVI), and we are grateful to the men 

and women, not just of the Delaware National Guard but National 

Guards all over this part of the country that are part of this team 

effort. 

Mr. Chairman, I hope that in the very near future we can actually have the Governors of Texas, Florida, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands before us so that we can hear their perspectives on 

what worked well, what did not, how we could be more helpful, and 

maybe even include some mayors. Sometimes we do not want to always hear from people who are going to be critical, but we need 

to hear folks that are critical as well as people who think that a 

good job has been done. I always like to say if it is not perfect, 

make it better, and I think if we could hear from Governors—and 

I am sure you have this in mind—and some other leaders, that 

would be helpful. 

I think we are at the beginning of a very long and difficult rebuilding effort. The cost of the devastation wrought by these hurricanes may well exceed $300 billion—more than double the total 

economic damage of both Hurricanes Katrina and Rita in 2005. We 

must ensure that the Federal Government is meeting the needs of 

the survivors of these disasters and, at the same time, ensure that 

Federal funds, as the Chairman has said, are being used efficiently 

and effectively. Every dollar wasted is a dollar that will not be 

available to help other Americans who are still in need. 

We have already started to hear of allegations of programmatic 

mismanagement and questionable contracts. I am going to just talk 

about this anyway. It has been discussed quite a bit. I do not think 

it can be discussed too much. A lot of us were shocked to learn of 

the $300 million contract to repair the electric grid that was 

awarded by the PREPA, to Whitefish Energy. And as you know, a 

company with two full-time employees that has only existed for 2 

years ends up getting a $300 million contract, heaven help us. That 

is just unbelievable. 

I cannot overstate the urgent need for action to quickly restore 

power, repair homes and other structures, as well as ensure the 

availability of safe and clean drinking water for all citizens of the 

United States. 

I talked about electric generation. I will not go into that further. 

I am looking forward to going down—I think Senator Murkowski 

is going to lead a delegation maybe as early as this weekend. I 

hope that is going to come together, and I would love to be a part 

of that with her. They have a fair amount of jurisdiction over this, 

as does this Committee, as does Environment and Public Works 

(EPW), where I serve as well. 

I would finally just say I understand the time under which people can actually apply for individual assistance has been extended 

maybe to March. Can somebody nod their head on that, if that is 

correct? I think I heard something—OK. If you would address that 

when you speak, that would be great. Yes, it says right here: 

‘‘FEMA last night extended the deadline to March.’’ We are happy 

to hear of that. 

Mr. Chairman, in closing, I just want to say a few words about 

the obligation that our Federal Government has to help rebuild 
6 

1The prepared statement of Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 45. 

2The prepared statement of Senator Carper appears in the Appendix on page 46. 

when disasters strike our country, any part of our country. When 

extreme weather like this hits, it is scary, it is dangerous, and it 

is often far more powerful than we imagined it would be. For those 

of us who have not had the misfortune of living in the path of the 

worst destruction, it is hard to imagine. I have ridden out hurricanes in a Navy destroyer off the coast, the Atlantic coast. I have 

flown into monsoons in our Navy P–3 airplanes out in the Pacific 

Ocean. I got run over by Hurricane Katrina with a bunch of Boy 

Scouts on a sailboat coming down the coast of Florida during that 

storm. So, I have had a little bit of a taste of this stuff. It is scary 

as can be. 

But, for the people whose reality has become a nightmare, they 

just want to know that there is a path to a better and a safer future. Clearing that path is a shared responsibility, though. The 

residents of Puerto Rico and their leaders, their Governor and others, must do their part, but our Federal Government has a moral 

obligation to help as well. Like the folks at Home Depot like to say, 

‘‘You can do it, we can help.’’ And, that I think applies here, too. 

And, keeping with the spirit of the Golden Rule, let us continue to 

make sure that we do just that. 

Thank you so much. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Carper. 

I would like my full my written statement, entered into the 

record.1

Senator CARPER. And, if I could make a similar request,2 please. 

Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Without objection. 

It is the tradition of this Committee to swear in witnesses, so if 

you will all rise and raise your right hand? Do you swear that the 

testimony you will give before this Committee will be the truth, the 

whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? 

Mr. LONG. I do. 

Mr. SALESSES. I do. 

General JACKSON. I do. 

Dr. KADLEC. I do. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Please be seated. 

Our first witness is Brock Long. Mr. Long is the Administrator 

of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In this role he 

leads FEMA’s workforce to fulfill its mission in responding to natural disasters and emergencies facing the United States, including 

the recent hurricanes, Harvey, Irma, and Maria. Mr. Long, I do not 

know how long you were on the job before Hurricane Harvey hit, 

but, again, I just want to thank you for what I think is just extraordinary service over the last 21⁄2 months. 
7 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Long appears in the Appendix on page 51. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE WILLIAM B. ‘‘BROCK’’ LONG,1

ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT 

AGENCY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. LONG. Thank you, Senator. Before I get started, I would like 

to say that my thoughts and prayers are with Ranking Member 

McCaskill and her husband. 

Chairman Johnson, Senator Carper, as well as the distinguished 

Members of this Committee, it is a pleasure to be here today. It 

truly has been unprecedented, and I am here to discuss anything 

you would like to regarding the response and recovery efforts that 

my staff has helped to coordinate across the Federal partnership 

when it comes to all the Agencies that have been involved. 

Like me, what I have seen inside my Agency is that I work every 

day with people who are truly dedicated, that truly come to work 

every day that want to save lives and help people get on the pathway to recovery as well as become more resilient. 

I have been in office 132 days. For 70 of those days, we have 

been actively responding to Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, Maria, and 

the extraordinary California wildfires as well. Each one of these 

events that I just spoke of could truly be catastrophic events, 

stand-alone events, but they happened in rapid succession in a 25- 

day period, which is obviously unprecedented. 

Chairman Johnson, in regards to this, I think it is important to 

point out that before Hurricane Harvey hit, FEMA was responding 

to over 30 different disasters across the Nation in many States that 

you folks represent, and in addition to those major disaster declarations, we were also responding to over 50 different fire management assistance grant declarations due to the wildfires that are 

taking place. 

Now, there are many improvements to be made to ensure a 

whole community response and that the National Incident Management System continues to grow in a positive way, I do recognize 

that there are many challenges ahead, particularly when it comes 

to California, Texas, Florida, as well as the Virgin Islands and 

Puerto Rico. 

I want to put a couple of things into context about the magnitude 

of this most recent response. If you start with Hurricane Harvey 

all the way over to the California wildfires, over 25 million Americans have been impacted—that is 8 percent of the population—in 

basically a 2-month period or, a 50-day time period. The FEMA 

search and rescue teams alone saved over 9,000 lives. That is in 

addition to our Department of Defense (DOD) partners, Coast 

Guard partners, State and local partners, first responders, neighbors helping neighbors like the Cajun Navy coming from Louisiana 

over to Houston. Tens of thousands of lives have been saved. 

Over 4.5 million Americans have been registered inside FEMA’s 

Individual Assistance Program. To put that number in context, 

that is greater than Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Sandy, Hurricane Wilma, and Hurricane Rita combined. It is the fastest we 

have ever put people into our systems, and we have put over $2.5 

billion in the hands of citizens across the country to start that road 
8 

to recovery. We cannot make you whole, but we can actually serve 

as a catalyst to help you recover. Over $3.5 billion was expedited in our National Flood Insurance 

Program (NFIP) immediately to our policy holders. That number is 

projected to grow to $16 or $17 billion just for Hurricanes Harvey 

and Irma alone. 

Since the onset of Hurricane Harvey on August 25, the Nation 

has worked together with our mass care partners—Red Cross, 

State and local partners—to shelter over 1.1 million Americans in 

congregate shelters. The peak population in one night was 200,000. 

That is unprecedented. We have not had numbers like that ever before. 

I also have reason to believe that the commodity mission and the 

humanitarian mission to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, as 

well as all of the States, has been one of the largest humanitarian 

missions in the history of FEMA. 

Now, while there are existing response and recovery challenges 

that need to be addressed, I think Chairman Johnson, in regards 

to your opening comments, it is important to point out that an optimal response and recovery process should be federally supported, 

State managed, and locally executed. Each level of government has 

a very critical role to play, and we have to continue to define what 

the responsibilities are and what the target capabilities should be. 

In the case of Puerto Rico, they were hit by two major hurricanes 

in rapid succession which created the diminished capacity. Not only 

were their responders now disaster survivors, but also the ability 

to respond was also compromised. That puts FEMA as the primary 

responder and pretty much the first responder, which is never a 

good situation. When FEMA is the first and primary responder and 

the only responder for many weeks, we are never going to move as 

fast as anybody would like, and I recognize that. 

Moving forward, we continue to work every day to restore the 

power. Particularly in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, restoring 

the power solves a multitude of problems, and it is going to require 

our partners at the Army Corps working hand in glove with Governor Rossello, who I talk to on a very regular basis. We have to 

restore the hospitals and medical functions to pre-disaster conditions and consider how to make them more resilient in the future. 

Each one of the disaster housing missions is going to be unique, 

from California all the way to the Virgin Islands, and we are working to rectify those issues every day. Clearing roads, fixing roads, 

getting rid of debris is also a major mission. There are 3.5 million 

cubic yards of debris on Puerto Rico alone. 

Communications and cell service is something else. I believe we 

are up to about 85 percent, for example, on Puerto Rico. The retail 

industry is back up to about 90 percent. The water systems are 

back up to about 80 percent. So, progress is being made, but we 

have a long way to go. 

I have not had a chance to catch my breath, and do an exhaustive after-action review of all the things that just happened and 

what we have learned or where we should go, but I do have several 

ideas. I think as a community we have to streamline disaster recovery programs that are offered from across the Federal Government. We have to simplify them, streamline them, make them easy 
9 

1The joint prepared statement of Mr. Salesses appears in the Appendix on page 61. 

to understand, and help our State and local partners understand 

when to use these things. I will be asking for your help to do that. 

We have to implement and ensure survivable communications. 

We have to work with the private industry to make sure that, as 

we become more and more attached to our cell phones, the systems 

that are being implemented are resilient and redundant. 

We have to do more pre-disaster mitigation. Pre-disaster mitigation is the key to becoming more resilient and reducing disaster impacts. 

We have to ensure State and local governments, Texas and Florida are the examples, have their own life sustainment commodity 

capabilities and that the Federal Government is not shouldering 

the entire burden. 

We have to find low-to no-cost ways to prepare our citizens and 

help our citizens be properly insured. Insurance is the first line of 

defense, and those who are insured will recover quicker than those 

that do not have insurance. 

We have to ensure that States have baseline level capabilities, 

that States have their own baseline capabilities to handle individual assistance and public assistance when Federal disaster declarations are not coming to town. And, we also have to do a lot of 

work to fix the NFIP program. 

These are just some of the things that we have to work on and 

a multitude of other several more ideas that I have. I am honored 

to be here and answer your questions today. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Mr. Long. 

Our next witness is Robert Salesses. Mr. Salesses is the Deputy 

Assistant Secretary of Defense for Homeland Defense Integration 

and Defense Support of Civil Authorities. In this role he is responsible for the development of policy for defense support of civil authorities and homeland security interagency coordination. Mr. 

Salesses. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT G. SALESSES,1 DEPUTY ASSISTANT 

SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR HOMELAND DEFENSE INTEGRATION AND DEFENSE SUPPORT OF CIVIL AUTHORITIES, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 

Mr. SALESSES. Thank you, Chairman Johnson, Senator Carper, 

distinguished Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the Department of Defense’s support of the Federal response to Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, and Maria. 

The Defense Department is a fully committed and critical partner in the national response system. DOD has a long tradition of 

working with our Federal, State, and local partners in responding 

to domestic disasters and emergencies. Led by Administrator Long 

and FEMA, DOD plays a key role in the Federal Government’s 

support to State and local disasters. We also support other Federal 

partners and departments such as Health and Human Services 

(HHS), Department of Transportation (DOT), and Department of 

Energy (DOE) in their role as emergency support function leads. 

DOD is well prepared and has forces and capabilities ready to act 

immediately to sustain lives in the aftermath of disasters. DOD en-
10 

sures a high level of preparedness by continually enhancing our integrated planning, improving our training, and conducting joint exercises between our Federal, State, and local partners. 

In advance of each of these hurricanes, the Secretary of Defense 

directed DOD to provide full support to life-saving, life-sustaining 

operations in coordination with our Federal partners. Based on this 

direction, DOD postured significant capabilities—Navy ships, strategic airlift helicopters, medical teams, and logistics—prior to each 

of the hurricanes’ landfall to assist the citizens of Texas, Florida, 

Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. 

To date, the Defense Department has responded to over 311 mission assignments from FEMA and our other Federal partners. 

Using the total force in its response, thousands of Army, Navy, Air 

Force, and Marine, Active, Reserve, and Guard have responded to 

these hurricanes. 

Under the command of General Robinson, Federal forces conducted search and rescue, evacuation operations, provided damage 

assessments, surveyed and made repairs to open airports and seaports, cleared critical roadways, transported life-sustaining commodities of food and water, provided fuel distribution, conducted 

assessments of civilian hospitals, and provided medical support to 

include evacuating patients back to the continental United States. 

Additionally, U.S. Transportation Command (USTRANSCOM) 

has flown over 2,800 flights over the last 60 days in support of 

these hurricane operations, with over 1,900 flights in support of 

Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, transporting urgent first 

responders like FEMA’s Urban Search and Rescue Teams (USAR), 

HHS’ Disaster Medical Teams, relief supplies and equipment, and 

evacuating hundreds of residents and patients. 

The Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) has provided millions of gallons of fuel, over 850 generators, more than 100 million meals, and 

millions of liters of water and life-sustaining commodities. 

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) conducted flood 

mitigation operations in Houston and Puerto Rico, conducted maritime port surveys and openings along with the U.S. Coast Guard 

(USCG), installed temporary roofs to enable people to stay in their 

homes, provided temporary emergency power to over 550 critical facilities—these included hospitals, fire stations, police stations, and 

other municipal buildings—and, more significantly, continues to 

work to restore Puerto Rico’s electric grid to its pre-storm status, 

a new and unique mission for the Corps of Engineers in its role 

under the Stafford Act. 

Our military services at the installation level also provided critical transportation, logistics, and medical services to local officials 

and their communities under immediate response authority. And, 

thousands of Army and Air National Guard personnel working with 

the respective Governors from the affected States and the supporting States conducted search and rescue, evacuation operations, 

commodities distribution, and other critical support operations. The 

men and women of the Defense Department, military and civilian, 

were ready and acted with a great sense of urgency in responding 

to Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, and Maria. 
11 

1The joint prepared statement of Mr. Jackson appears in the Appendix on page 61. 

Chairman Johnson, Senator Carper, and distinguished Members 

of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. 

I look forward to your questions. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Secretary Salesses. 

Our next witness is Major General Donald Jackson. General 

Jackson is the Deputy Commanding General for Civil and Emergency Operations for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. General 

Jackson oversees the work of the Army Corps in responding to 

major disasters such as the major hurricanes that recently hit the 

United States. General Jackson. 

TESTIMONY OF MAJOR GENERAL DONALD E. ‘‘ED’’ JACKSON,1

DEPUTY COMMANDING GENERAL FOR CIVIL AND EMERGENCY OPERATIONS, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS, U.S. 

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 

General JACKSON. Chairman Johnson, Senator Carper, and distinguished Members of the Committee, my name is Major General 

Ed Jackson, Deputy Commanding General for Civil and Emergency 

Operations, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. 

The Corps conducts emergency response activities under two 

basic authorities: the Stafford Act and Public Law (P.L.) 84–99. 

Under the Stafford Act, we support FEMA under the National Response Framework as the lead Federal agency for Emergency Support Function (ESF) #3, Public Works and Engineering. ESF #3 

provides temporary emergency power, temporary roofing, debris 

management, infrastructure assessment, critical public facility restoration, and temporary housing. 

Under Public Law 84–99, we prepare for disasters through planning, coordination, and training with local, State, and Federal partners. We assist State and local entities to support advance measures that prevent or reduce storm event damages, and we repair 

damage to authorized Federal projects and work with States and 

municipalities to rehabilitate and restore eligible non-Federal flood 

infrastructure to pre-storm condition. 

When disasters occur, Corps teams and other resources are mobilized from across the command to assist local offices with their response to the event. As part of this mission, the Corps has more 

than 50 specially trained teams supported by emergency contracts 

that perform a wide range of public works and engineering-related 

support functions that I just described. 

The Corps uses pre-awarded contracts that can be quickly activated for missions such as debris removal, temporary roofing, and 

generator installation. This year, the Corps supported FEMA-led 

Federal response and recovery operations in support of multiple 

events, including Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, and Maria. 

FEMA directed 37 mission assignments to the Corps to assist in 

Hurricane Harvey response and recovery. Currently, the Corps has 

183 employees still deployed. The Corps assisted in temporary 

emergency power and continues to support the State of Texas with 

the development and implementation of a temporary housing 

project management plan. Debris teams led by Corps subject mat-
12 

ter experts continue providing State and local municipalities with 

debris technical assistance to define requirements and monitor debris removal and disposal operations in 15 counties. 

FEMA directed 81 mission assignments to the Corps to assist in 

Hurricanes Irma and Maria response and recovery. Currently, the 

Corps has over 1,500 personnel deployed. As of this morning, the 

Corps has completed about 1,000 assessments and 550 temporary 

generator installations across the Caribbean. This includes about 

250 assessments and 150 generator installations in the U.S. Virgin 

Islands and 750 assessments and 400 generator installations in 

Puerto Rico. Under FEMA authority, we are also assisting Puerto 

Rico with operation and maintenance of critical non-Federal generators across the island. 

The Corps has completed over 13,000 temporary roofing installations in Florida and is on track to complete the mission by November 3rd. We also have completed over 6,000 temporary roofing installations across the Caribbean, including over 2,000 in the U.S. 

Virgin Islands and 4,000 in Puerto Rico. Roofing requirements in 

both the U.S. Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico have been extensive, 

requiring additional material and construction support which initially slowed progress. We have adjusted, added capacity, and are 

now seeing daily improvements in both locations. 

Corps debris subject matter experts provided technical assistance 

to counties across Florida and Georgia in response to Hurricane 

Irma and continue to provide oversight to five regions within the 

Florida Department of Emergency Management. The Corps is 

working to remove an estimated 1 million cubic yards of debris 

from the U.S. Virgin Island and 6 million cubic yards of debris in 

Puerto Rico. 

The Corps worked closely with the U.S. Coast Guard, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), and local 

authorities to open harbors and navigation channels across all affected areas critical to restoring commerce and allowing the flow of 

commodities and essential equipment to reach affected communities. The Corps worked closely with officials in Texas and Florida 

to manage local flood control reservoirs during periods of unprecedented rainfall. In Puerto Rico, Corps dam and levee teams inspected 17 priority dams and worked closely with the Puerto Rico 

Electric Power Authority to stabilize a spillway failure at 

Guajataca Dam. Additionally, the Corps teams cleared existing outflow conduits and placed emergency pumps to further reduce water 

levels in the dam yet restore flow to a critical treatment plant that 

supports the needs of over 30,000 people. 

On September 30th, the Corps was given a FEMA mission assignment under Stafford Act authority to assist the Puerto Rico 

Electric Power Authority in conducting emergency repairs to the 

power grid itself. The Corps is partnering with PREPA in this effort and has established a General Officer and senior executive-led 

task force as well as three area offices on the island to oversee 

work and provide technical assistance. The Department of Energy 

has embedded experts in our team and continues to assist in our 

efforts. 

Within 2 weeks of receiving the mission assignment, the Corps 

awarded contracts for large-scale temporary power generation to 
13 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Kadlec appears in the Appendix on page 72. 

stabilize the grid in San Juan and for additional line repair assets 

that will assist ongoing efforts by PREPA to complete the mission 

as quickly as possible. 

The Corps remains fully committed and capable of executing its 

own civil works activities across the Nation despite our heavy involvement in these ongoing response and recovery operations. We 

also remain ready and poised to assist any future events as they 

may occur. 

This concludes my testimony, and I look forward to answering 

any questions you might have. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, General Jackson. 

Our final witness is Dr. Robert Kadlec. Dr. Kadlec is the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (ASPR) at the Department of Health and Human Services. Dr. Kadlec coordinates 

the Department’s medical assistance after a major disaster, including sending teams and medical professionals to affected areas and 

working with local hospitals. Dr. Kadlec. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE ROBERT P. KADLEC, M.D.,1

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR PREPAREDNESS AND RESPONSE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES 

Dr. KADLEC. Thank you very much, Chairman Johnson, Senator 

Carper, and Members of the Committee. It is a privilege to appear 

before you to discuss our Nation’s medical and public health response, as Director Long identified, an unprecedented series of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes that have hit the U.S. Mainland and its 

territories this season. HHS as well as our interagency partners, 

FEMA, Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Veterans Affairs 

(VA), and DOD have pushed many organizational and historical 

boundaries to save lives and support the communities and people 

impacted by these storms. 

I fully recognize there are regions in Puerto Rico and the Virgin 

Islands where people are still facing dire conditions. I saw the devastation firsthand and can assure you that HHS continues our response at 110 percent effort and will continue to work as hard as 

we can until the conditions improve and we can bring people back 

to recovery. 

Since this is my first time testifying before this Committee, I will 

just begin with a brief description of this position called ASPR. Sir, 

in response to your comments, Mr. Chairman, about Hurricane 

Katrina, the ASPR was created almost 11 years ago in response to 

Hurricane Katrina by the Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness 

Act. Its objective was simple: to create ‘‘unity of command’’ by consolidating all of HHS public health and medical preparedness and 

response functions under one person. I had the privilege of being 

the Staff Director of the Senate subcommittee that drafted this legislation. 

ASPR’s mission is to save lives and protect America from health 

security threats. On behalf of HHS, ASPR leads public health and 

medical response to disasters and emergencies in accordance with 

the National Response Framework and Emergency Support Func-
14 

tion #8, which includes all our Federal partners that are here seated at this dais. 

Today the threats facing our country are increasingly diverse and 

more lethal. My main objective is to improve national readiness 

and response capabilities for the 21st Century threats, and I am 

doing that through four key priority efforts: strong leadership; creating a national disaster health care system, as Director Long identified, that is more resilient and capable to the challenges that we 

face in the future; sustain robust and reliable public health security capabilities that, again, reside at the State and local level and, 

again, are the backbone of any response to any future disaster circumstance; and then, last, advance an innovative medical countermeasure enterprise. 

During Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, Marie, and Nate, their severity 

and near simultaneity created unique challenges, especially in 

Puerto Rico where no place, no person, no life was untouched. During my trip there, I was overwhelmed by the resilience of our fellow 

citizens who are making do in extraordinarily difficult situations 

that continue to improve over time because of the extraordinary efforts of the people and the people in the agencies that are represented here today. 

Our response strategy for health emergencies has been threefold: 

First, save lives, principally through the deployment of our disaster medical assistance teams. You should be proud to know that 

I met with your fellow citizens from your States during my trips 

down to Florida, Texas, and to Puerto Rico, where folks from Oklahoma, from Wisconsin, from Delaware, and from New Hampshire 

were aiding their fellow citizens firsthand. 

Second is to stabilize the health care system, ensuring with 

FEMA such very important activities such as uninterrupted fuel 

supplies, potable water supplies, could be delivered to not only hospitals but to dialysis clinics to ensure that these vital systems 

stayed in place. 

And, last, restore health care services that need to be recovered 

to pre-disaster levels. 

In Puerto Rico, frankly, we are still responding. In other areas 

recovery is underway. In order to save lives, as I mentioned, ASPR 

activated the National Disaster Medical System and deployed more 

than 2,900 medical personnel from 21 States and hundreds of other 

Federal employees, including U.S. Public Health Service Commission core personnel. 

For each of these storms, we deployed teams even before the hurricanes made landfall so they were ready to respond immediately 

once the storm passed. In total, we have cared for more than 

22,000 patients in affected States and territories, 12,400 in Puerto 

Rico alone, and sent 950 tons of medical equipment and supplies 

to these affected areas. 

I am happy to answer any questions you may have, and thank 

you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Dr. Kadlec. 

I would like to start with Administrator Long. Mr. Long, you 

talked about you are in a real kind of danger zone when FEMA is 

in charge of first responding, when you are no longer subordinate 
15 

but you are leading the whole effort. Can you just describe really 

how it is all supposed to work and why that is a problem? 

Mr. LONG. Sure. So, if you look at the Stafford Act, the Stafford 

Act is designed to support State and local efforts. And, the way disaster declarations work is that when a local government’s capacity 

has been exceeded, they call upon county-to-county mutual aid first 

or other mutual aid agreements to see if they can mitigate the disaster and the response. 

If that is not an option or if that is not working or the capacity 

has further been expanded, then they will call upon the State. The 

Governor will issue a State of emergency, and then the State will 

try to rectify as much as they can of the disaster. And then, once 

that has been exhausted or the State recognizes that it is beyond 

their capacity, they call upon the Federal Government, and we 

begin to mobilize. 

In many cases, you have seen the National Incident Management 

System in the whole community work, and the successful model 

was in Texas, it was in Florida, and it is now in California. While 

everything never runs perfect, for the most part it is operating as 

it should. 

What we have to do in regards to Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, 

and other island territories is to ensure that they have the management infrastructure in place at both the State and the local 

level, and that we can also make sure that we have survivable communications. Anytime we lose communications and completely 

black out like we did in Puerto Rico, it is hard to obtain situational 

awareness and fully understand what the true response and recovery needs are. 

Chairman JOHNSON. You have only been on the job for 132 days, 

but I guess who is keeping track? Apparently you are. But, you 

have been involved in disaster response for many years. Has there 

been a shift, have we created moral hazard? Is there a growing reliance on the Federal Government being that first responder and 

being primarily responsible as opposed to being subordinate? 

Mr. LONG. That is a great question. I believe that would be in 

pockets. Some of the States are very capable States, and then there 

are some States where I believe, for example, maybe we need to 

take a look at which States actually have rainy-day funds and actually have mechanisms to be able to implement their own individual and public assistance programs when Federal disaster assistance is not coming. 

I also believe that many States or several States have their own 

ability to run life-saving commodity capabilities. They have the 

ability to handle the first 72 to 120 hours, where other States or 

island territories have not addressed those issues. And so, I think 

we do have to go back and reestablish with our State and local 

partners what is the baseline effort that should be there and clearly put forward those capabilities to make sure that we are prepared 

to backfill. 

One of the things I want to do is I want to develop State integration teams. I want to move beyond my regional offices that I have 

and put full-time staff in with the State agencies and island territories to make sure that we are truly doing real integrated planning on a daily basis, that FEMA is a part of the conversation 
16 

every day so that we fully understand how to support all Governors 

when called upon directly. 

Chairman JOHNSON. That might be a pretty good action item 

here, when you have time go back and really do a State-by-State, 

territory-by-territory assessment in terms of their emergency management system, whether it is funded, whether it is prepared. We 

will note that. 

Finally, as I left Puerto Rico, to me it was just all about power, 

power, and power. You have got a disaster, you have a crisis already, but it will grow if we do not establish power. So, I would 

like to ask the Administrator and also the General, where are we 

at? What are the prospects of reestablishing power? What do we 

have to do? 

Mr. LONG. So, right now I am exercising under the Stafford Act 

emergency authorities, which is why we mission assigned the Army 

Corps of Engineers. It was the right thing to do initially because 

of the diminished capacity on the island. They are mobilizing under 

emergency authorities to rebuild the grid to U.S. code standards. 

The discussion that needs to be taken after that is how do we 

build a power grid that is resilient. That is going to require authorities far greater than the Stafford Act affords me at FEMA. 

Typically what we have to do is restore to a pre-disaster condition, 

but, obviously, that is not optimal and not the way I would ever 

recommend this country to go. We do not want to be back in this 

situation again after having this disaster and an opportunity to 

change it. I will turn it over to General Jackson. 

General JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, first of all, I think the grid 

today is slightly over 33 percent restored based upon the basic load 

that it had before the storm. There is incremental progress that is 

being made. The line repair and the restoration activities that have 

been done up to this point have been done by PREPA, and the 

Corps of Engineers has done a few things in terms of getting personnel on the ground. We installed a 50-megawatt generator at the 

Palo Seco Plant just within the last week that helped stabilize the 

grid in the greater San Juan area, and it added about 40 

megawatts to the system today and yesterday, which has been very 

helpful in upping the power. 

We are approaching this in a number of different ways. First of 

all, we have the normal authorities that the Corps of Engineers has 

under the Stafford Act or ESF #3 temporary emergency power, 

which are generator installations. What we have typically done is 

come into an affected area and will install generators. Then we will 

take them out as the power grid comes up. And, the power grid restoration activity is usually handled by the local public utility and 

sometimes augmented by other capabilities outside the State. 

In this particular case, PREPA chose not to activate the type of 

normal arrangements that are used by the Public Utility Association, and so FEMA turned to the Corps of Engineers to help 

PREPA with the restoration of the grid based upon the emergencies that it created. 

What we have done up to this point in order to do that is to continue our ESF #3 temporary generator installation mission. We are 

almost at 400 temporary generator installations at this point today, 

and those generator sizes range from 40 kilowatt all the way up 
17 

to 1.5 megawatt, and those get installed at critical facilities that 

are prioritized by FEMA and by the Commonwealth, and that is 

typically hospitals, wastewater treatment facilities, communications platforms, schools, and other places. And, we will continue to 

do that as the grid continues to come together. 

We have also worked very closely with PREPA, and, again, just 

to remind everyone, we got this mission assignment on September 

30th to do the grid restoration in Puerto Rico. We have been doing 

emergency temporary power since Hurricane Irma hit on September 6th. That mission started then, and we have gradually increased our capability to do more and will continue to do so as long 

as we need to. 

We awarded a contract for the 50-megawatt generator to help 

stabilize the load in San Juan and get more people power more 

quickly. Since September 30th, we have also worked very closely 

with PREPA to get an understanding of what material they needed 

to do this grid repair mission. That has been a very arduous effort 

because PREPA did not have a real good handle or understanding 

of what they had in their laydown yard, so we had to go physically 

from place to place to count how many poles they had, how many 

spools of wire, transformers, and the like. We have placed things 

on order, and we have worked very hard, through multiple venues, 

to get the material moving toward Puerto Rico, and that is happening as we speak today. 

We also went through the process of awarding contracts. We are 

unable to enter into mutual assistance agreements like the public 

utility could. A mutual assistance agreement that is entered into 

by a public utility is very similar to what we award for our debris 

and our temporary emergency power contracts. They are on the 

shelf ready to award. They can be awarded right away. 

For the contracts that we have awarded to prime vendors at 

Fluor and also PowerSecure, we have had to go through a competition process and, of course in accordance, with the Federal Acquisition Regulation to award contracts, and we have done that. We 

have 150 contractors on the ground today, aside from the 450 

Corps of Engineers employees that are dedicated to the power mission. By the end of the weekend, those numbers will rise up about 

another 500, and by the middle of November we should have about 

1,000 people on the ground. 

We are moving very fast to mobilize the line crews that we need 

to continue the effort in support of PREPA. And, the milestones 

that we have been given by the Administration initially were 30 

percent by the end of October, which we are there now, thanks in 

part to a lot of the hard work that PREPA is doing, and our next 

goal is 50 percent of pre-storm load by the end of November, and 

that is the goal that we are shooting for right now. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, General Jackson. 

By the way, let us go 7-minute rounds. I know there is a request 

for two rounds, which we can do if people stick around, but we also 

have to be mindful of time. Senator Carper. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony and all you have had to offer. 

My wife, Mr. Long, is a graduate of Appalachia State University. 

Her Dad taught math and physics there for 40 years. As I recall, 
18 

you went to undergraduate and graduate school at Appalachia 

State University. She asked me to tell you the Mountaineers are 

proud of you. And, I recall meeting your wife and I think your children at your confirmation hearing, and to your family and to the 

families of everyone who each of you represent, whether you happen to be at FEMA or part of the Army Corps or the health folks, 

I just want to really convey our thanks to them for the support 

they are providing for their loved ones to enable them to help people in dire straits. 

I want to stay with the issue of energy. I am a recovering Governor. I have thought a lot about how to provide a nurturing environment for job creation and job preservation, and energy is a big 

part of that. Affordable energy, reliable, dependable energy is a 

huge part of that. And, they do not have affordable energy in Puerto Rico. They did not have it before, and obviously they do not have 

reliable or dependable energy today. 

I said earlier that in adversity lies opportunity, and in my conversation with the Governor of Puerto Rico yesterday, we talked 

about the situation they have now with power is generated in the 

south of the island and most of the people live in the north. They 

use mostly diesel to provide power for the electric grid. The electric 

grid is badly damaged, and they still have this reliance on oil, a 

lot of which comes from South America. 

When I look around the world, one of the smart energy programs 

involves natural gas where it is cheap and supplement that with 

renewables. And, when the wind does not blow and the sun does 

not shine, bring up the natural gas and provide the electricity in 

a cost-effective, cleaner way than we would get from diesel or other 

fossil fuels. 

Let me just ask—and I said earlier the Governor said to me yesterday eventually he wants them to increase their dependence on 

renewable forms of energy to as much as 30 percent. That is his 

goal. And, let me say I embrace his goal. I embrace this goal. How 

do we make this happen? And, how can we help make this happen? 

Mr. LONG. I will take a shot at that first. Again, my authorities 

are limited to the Stafford Act. And, one of the issues that we are 

coming into and one of the issues that the Army Corps is facing 

is the recognition that the age of the infrastructure on Puerto Rico, 

I believe, the power plants, was close to—over 40 years average 

age. Worldwide, the average age of power plants is about 18 years. 

So, there is a big discrepancy there, and in many cases I think 

what we are running into in the complexities is some deferred 

maintenance issues and different things. 

And so, if you put all of that aside, what I have the authority 

to do under emergency essential services is basically to get the 

power back up and running to prevent further loss of life and public health events from occurring. 

In regards to building innovative, more energy efficient—— 

Senator CARPER. And, I might add more resilient. 

Mr. LONG. Right, resilient. Definitely more resilient. I think we 

all agree that that is probably what is needed. But, the authority 

for me to spend taxpayer dollars to do that, I am not so sure that 

I have. And, that is something that I would ask this Committee to 

take a look at. 
19 

Senator CARPER. General? 

General JACKSON. Thank you, Senator. Just a couple things. Everything that you said was right about the preponderance of the 

power generation being—— 

Senator CARPER. Note this. I rarely say everything right. [Laughter.] 

General JACKSON. Most of the power generation is on the southern part of the island, and most of the population densities are on 

the north. So, the north-south transmission lines are critical. About 

half the power plants that are on Puerto Rico are fossil fuel; the 

other half are a combination of wind and solar. 

The Department of Energy has taken a hard look at that. What 

they have on the island right now produces or is supposed to 

produce about 5,200 megawatts of power. They really only use 

about half that. So, there is a lot of room to address maybe fewer 

more efficient power plants that produce the right amount of power 

with the right type of fuel to service the requirement that exists 

on the island today. The Department of Energy has been thinking 

about that, and they have been looking at that. They have been 

working very closely with PREPA to help understand what some 

of their challenges are, to make recommendations to the Administration and to Congress on things like—how much load do they 

really need and how much redundancy do they need in the system? 

And, how do they build additional capabilities to balance that load 

across all the demands in the system? How do they modernize the 

system to include the hardening of the system, to improve resilience? These are things that the Department of Energy has ideas 

on that they have shared with me and I know that they are working as part of a FEMA report that will have some recommendations, or maybe what a long-term solution might be for power. 

DOE is really looking at that hard. They have some real smart 

guys that are there on the ground with us going through the work 

that we are doing to help guide us and make sure that we are 

doing the right things. Ultimately, they are also looking at what is 

the right way ahead for the future of Puerto Rico so they can make 

those informed recommendations to the leadership. 

Senator CARPER. You mentioned DOE has some really smart 

guys on the ground. My staff and I would like to be able to reach 

out to them and to talk with them. For the record, we are going 

to ask you to provide those as soon as possible (ASAP), the contact 

information for those folks. 

General JACKSON. Yes, sir, I will. 

Senator CARPER. That would be great. Thank you. 

Usually it takes weeks, if not months, for a full assessment of 

damages to be made and an estimate of the total cost to rebuild. 

I would ask really for everybody, how far along are you in the process for Texas, for Florida, for Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands? When do you expect those complete assessments of needs to 

be ready? We are expecting a third supplemental appropriations 

bill, but will the Administration be making additional emergency 

supplemental requests to assist those communities as further assessments are completed? 

Mr. LONG. Well, first of all, I want to thank the Senate and the 

House for responding very quickly to every request for emergency 
20 

supplementals. I know that my guys have been working around the 

clock to make sure that you guys stay informed of when we believe 

that we are bumping up and running out of disaster relief funds. 

So, I truly do appreciate it. We have asked for three supplementals, 

if I remember correctly, this year alone. 

In regards to the Virgin Islands all the way to California, each 

one of the States or island territories is in different stages of the 

recovery, but each one of these is going to be a tremendous long 

recovery. It is going to be a long haul for each one. For example, 

Texas and Florida are obviously still focused on recovery housing 

and making sure that we provide people with a proper place to stay 

as the rebuilding begins, as well as debris removal. California is in 

the same boat as well, but there are still some sensitivities in the 

State of California when it comes to hazardous materials and then 

associated with the debris, but also with rainfall, when you burned 

off the vegetation, making sure that we mitigate against watershed 

issues that come into play as well. 

So, everybody is in different stages, but the long-term recovery 

is going to be long. I do not think we have a good handle on the 

total cost of this, but you can rest assured that my guys will be in 

touch with your staff members to make sure that we do not fumble 

the ball when it comes to disaster recovery. And, we will do our 

best to also take care of taxpayer dollars every day. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you. If I could ask the other witnesses 

to briefly respond to the same question, please. Thank you. 

General JACKSON. Senator, I will only comment on the power 

grid for Puerto Rico. We are still assessing the damages. We received initial reports from PREPA when we first were given the 

mission assignment, and we found that the damages were not necessarily as great as they had originally reported. But, what we 

have to do is put people on lines and make sure that, just because 

the line is not laying on the ground does not mean it is operable. 

We are in the process of doing that now, and we will probably be 

doing that as we do the repairs for the next several weeks, and we 

will be able to put together, I think, a much better assessment of 

what the overall cost to repair the grid to the standard that we are 

seeking under the Stafford Act in very short order. 

Senator CARPER. I am going to ask questions for the record. I am 

going to re-ask the same question and ask you and your staffs to 

respond to that question. All right? Thank you. Thank you very 

much. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Again, I really appreciate the number of 

Members here. I bumped the questioning up to 7 minutes, and I 

want Members and witnesses to stay within that 7 minutes as 

close as possible, just out of respect of everybody. Senator Tester. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TESTER 

Senator TESTER. Will do. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

First of all, I would just tell you I appreciate this document. I 

appreciate it a lot. I think that this is an instructive piece of information, and it is instructive because what it tells me is that we are 

going to continue down this road until we start looking at root 

causes. And, I know we never, ever want to accept the fact, because 

it is a bit uncomfortable, of what we do with a changing climate. 
21 

But, when we have towns evacuated in Montana in the middle of 

October due to wildfire, we have some major things that Mother 

Nature is telling us. And, if we do not address it, we are really not 

doing our fiscal fiduciary responsibility. 

First of all, I want to start out by saying, Brock Long, I think 

you are doing a great job. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you. 

Senator TESTER. You came in under difficult circumstances and 

getting pounded and pounded and pounded, and I think that you 

have really put your shoulder to the wheel and worked as hard as 

you could in a very difficult situation. So, I want to express my appreciation. 

A couple of things. In your testimony you talked about 3.5 cubic 

yards. Was that million cubic yards of debris on Puerto Rico? 

Mr. LONG. 3.5 million, but it may be off. 

Senator TESTER. 3.5 million? 

General JACKSON. 6 million is what we are tracking. 

Mr. LONG. That may be in older numbers, so the numbers are 

changing. 

Senator TESTER. OK. You also talked about pre-disaster mitigation in your opening remarks, and I think the savings is for every 

$1 in pre-disaster mitigation it saves $4 on disaster on the back 

side. I do not think we are spending enough on mitigation, and I 

think your testimony implied that. Do you have any ideas on what 

we need to do to address this issue. 

Mr. LONG. Absolutely. The problem with the way the system is 

established is you have to get hit to have an extraordinary amount 

of post-disaster hurricane mitigation program grant funding. I believe that is not the right way of doing business. Specifically, Section 404 in the Robert T. Stafford Act dictates how money is formulated or provided for mitigation purposes. The 404 money—it would 

be amazing if we could work with the Senate and this Committee 

to move that to the front side, to offer up—on average, I believe 

we put out $700 or $800 million in post-disaster mitigation funding. Why are we not doing that on the front side and get it out of 

recovery, reduce the complexities of recovery, and put it up front? 

I do not know what the right mix is. I do not know what the 

right amount of money to make a real dent in it is. But, it has to 

be not only money up front, but I do believe that the key to resiliency is held at the local level of government, with elected officials, 

smart land-use planning, building codes, different things, and making sure that there are redundant systems that are in place. It is 

going to have to be a whole community effort on the pre-disaster 

side. But, if we could move that 404 funding to the front side of 

disasters—and it will not be an easy move—I think it makes perfect sense, and I think we can all agree that that is what needs 

to be done. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Well, that is good. If you have any language that you could forward to this Committee and the Subcommittee on Homeland Security on Appropriations, I would certainly appreciate that. 

Mr. LONG. Absolutely. 

Senator TESTER. Because I think that it is a no-brainer. 
22 

Major General Jackson, you said you were assessing the grid in 

Puerto Rico. Are you about done with that assessment? I guess I 

will ask the question, and you just tell me if you can answer it or 

not. Is it shot? Is it 90 percent shot, 95 percent, 100 percent? 

Where is it at? I mean, I am talking about done, start over, rebuild. 

General JACKSON. The answer to that is no, it is not shot. The 

initial reports that we got said there was 100 percent damage to 

distribution. That is 31,000 miles worth of line. That is not the 

case. The initial reports that I received said that 80 percent of the 

transmission lines were shot. That is 2,400 miles of high-voltage—— 

Senator TESTER. Yes? What do you think it is now? I mean, what 

do you think it is? 

General JACKSON. Sir, let me start by just saying as I flew over 

Puerto Rico a couple of weeks ago, there are a lot of lines that are 

up visibly; there are a lot of lines that are down visibly. The problem is until you get folks on the ground to see if those lines and 

the components that make up the line system are operable, you do 

not really know if the lines is energized. That is what we are doing 

right now. 

We are not doing a full assessment and waiting to do repairs. We 

already sort of know where we need to go and what we need to 

focus on. 

Senator TESTER. So, what I am trying to get here is this: We 

have been told that the distribution system in Puerto Rico was horrible before the storms hit. Are we doing repairs to a horrible distribution system? Or are we fixing a horrible distribution system? 

General JACKSON. Sir, under the Stafford Act, we are fixing the 

system to get power out to the people as fast as we can. 

Senator TESTER. So, when the next hurricane hits, it is not going 

to knock down everything that was not knocked down in this hurricane, and we are back in the same boat. 

General JACKSON. If you have a Category 5 hurricane, unless the 

lines are buried under the ground, it is going to knock wires down. 

Senator TESTER. Even if it is new construction? 

General JACKSON. Even if it is new construction. 

Senator TESTER. All right. Is there any effort to talk about 

maybe developing generation so that the distribution is not as 

needed? I am talking not only renewable but even conventional 

generation. 

General JACKSON. Senator, my understanding is, as Senator Carper alluded, the Governor has an interest in locating the power 

generation more closely to the population densities that they support. 

Therefore, it would obviate the needs for these long transmission 

lines across the island, and DOE is taking a look at that to help 

put together some ideas for the leadership. 

Senator TESTER. I do not know if you do this or if Mr. Salesses 

does this, but are you looking at every option, not only carbon 

based but also solar and wind and geothermal? 

General JACKSON. Senator, my understanding is DOE is looking 

at what the most efficient, modern, appropriate system would be 

for Puerto Rico to make those type recommendations. 

Senator TESTER. OK. Do you guys know anything about PREPA? 
23 

1The letter referenced by Senator Peters appears in the Appendix on page 83. 

General JACKSON. Senator, I know some things about PREPA, 

but—— 

Senator TESTER. Well, here is what I want to know about. It is 

a nine-member board that I should be tickled pink that they gave 

a contract to a company in Montana. But, as you look at the situation, two people have been in business 2 years, never done disaster 

work before. What kind of people are on this board? No-bid contract. I mean, I got to tell you something. If it was any of you guys, 

if it was you, Brock, I would not have started out saying you are 

doing a great job, I will tell you that. OK? 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator TESTER. So, I do not understand what is going on here, 

and I do not understand where the accountability is. We have a 

Federal Financial Oversight Board. Maybe they are not doing their 

job. But, somebody is not doing their job. Would you agree? I see 

some head nods. 

Senator HARRIS. Let the record reflect. [Laughter.] 

Senator TESTER. Thank you very much. 

Chairman JOHNSON. There is a governance issue. There is no 

doubt about it. Senator Peters. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS 

Senator PETERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, thank you to 

each of you for the work you are doing in these disasters. Unfortunately, given what is happening with the climate, we may be seeing a lot more of these disasters, bigger, stronger, and increased 

frequency. So, it is important that we take lessons learned from 

what we have seen here and understand that we are probably 

going to have to be applying them again and again going forward. 

Mr. Long, my time is short today, but I wanted to just alert you 

that I sent a letter to you yesterday in my capacity as the Ranking 

Member on the Federal Management Oversight Subcommittee of 

this Committee, and in that letter I asked a series of detailed questions about FEMA’s response to Hurricane Maria and the humanitarian crisis in Puerto Rico. I am not going to go into all of those 

details, but the letter is going to you. I hope to have your commitment to get a quick response because I am sure our Subcommittee 

will have further hearings on this matter, and it will be helpful to 

frame that discussion. 

Mr. Chairman, if I could just have that letter entered into the 

record?1

Chairman JOHNSON. Without objection. 

Mr. LONG. Absolutely, I am aware, and we will respond very 

quickly. 

Senator PETERS. I appreciate that, Mr. Long. Thank you. 

As many of my colleagues have mentioned, the concern about 

particularly in Puerto Rico is to make sure that we have sustainability built into any kind of response. And, I know the Stafford Act 

prevents that from happening in the fact that it talks about limiting rebuilding to the way it was in place when the disaster occurred. You alluded to that as well in your comments. Do you think 

it is time for us to take a look at the Stafford Act? Would you rec-
24 

ommend us taking a good look at whether or not that makes sense 

given the situation we are in now and what will likely be future 

situations given climate change? 

Mr. LONG. Yes, and I work with my staff every day, and there 

are definite changes to the Stafford Act that we could consider. 

But, I would also like to take the time to methodically go through 

those and submit those, if there are recommendations, not only 

from my staff at FEMA, but the emergency management community as a whole. I am always for reviewing and bettering processes. 

There are opportunities for mitigation as a result of going 

through this, but rebuilding a grid to the level that we are all discussing here is not within my authority. And, I am concerned about 

the deferred maintenance issues, already when it comes to restoring and conducting permanent work as it is. 

Senator PETERS. Well, I appreciate working with you on that, 

and as we have talked about before, personally some of those disasters that may not be under the Stafford Act, some of which is a 

disaster we had in Michigan, in Flint, for example, I think there 

are a lot of lessons learned from that disaster as well that means 

that we need to take a hard look at the Stafford Act and try to 

make improvements to make sure the American people get the help 

that they need when disaster strikes their community. 

That leads to my next question, which relates to the long-term 

nature of these disasters, especially from my experience in Flint, 

that aid is normally available when the TV cameras are running. 

Usually, there is quite a bit of aid that will flow once the public 

media attention is there. The challenge is when the cameras stop 

covering the event and these folks have to deal with these disasters 

for many years in the future. 

So my question is: How long do you expect FEMA to be working 

in the areas affected by these hurricanes? And, do you have the capacity to handle that workload, which is probably going to be over 

the next decade or more? 

Mr. LONG. At this point, no doubt about it, when it comes to recovery staff, we are stressed. We are having to rob Peter to pay 

Paul, as you could say, from other disasters. I think right now we 

have roughly 26 open disasters that we are working nationwide 

that do not get media coverage, and so in some cases what we are 

trying to do is go to more virtual models, and hopefully States are 

calling upon State-to-State mutual aid to be able to start managing 

a lot of their disasters and doing things more virtually. 

But, in regards to the most recent four events that we are talking about from the California wildfires to the three major events, 

it is going to take many years to go through. In some cases, when 

it goes back to your question on the Stafford Act, we do have Section 428 of the Stafford Act that allows us to move in a more expedited manner and possibly in a more resilient manner, but we have 

to make some decisions as to whether or not the program is working. It does reduce the number, the sheer number of project work 

sheets that we have to generate, and it allows us to do work more 

efficiently. I would like to continue going down that path, but also 

take a comprehensive look at how we get local and State government to also make sure that they are funding for staff positions 

adequately, as well. 
25 

When it comes to future grants, I would rather have grants to 

hire and train proper staffing than to buy equipment. And, there 

may be people that disagree with me in the industry, but you cannot replace human beings, and that is what we need when it comes 

to the large amount of disasters that we are facing. 

Senator PETERS. And, with these large disasters, I know it is still 

early to get a sense of what the cost will be, which will be very 

large. I think all of you have referred to the fact that is an ongoing 

process right now. But, do you have any indication in terms of the 

hurricanes? How do you think the costs will stack up? Which will 

be the most expensive? How would you rank them? 

Mr. LONG. Well, it is interesting. When you look at Hurricanes 

Harvey and Irma, I think there are 2.5 million people in Florida 

alone that have been entered into individual assistance. In Hurricane Harvey, we are still under 1 million. OK? But then, when you 

look at the impacts to housing, the amount of money it would cost 

to fix flood-based housing issues is going to be tremendously more 

expensive than I believe what we may see in Florida. 

California is a whole other—as long as I have been doing this, 

I have never seen a more disturbing disaster in my life, and I think 

they lost 6,800 homes in that. 

And so, each one is tremendously different, and the costs will 

vary based on what the services are that are needed. As far as 

overall costs, I have heard numbers inside from my finance guys 

saying that we are probably spending about $200 million a day 

right now just responding to the four disasters that we are facing. 

Senator PETERS. And, how would you rank them? In terms of 

hurricanes, what is going to be the most expensive for us, and the 

second most? I have heard estimates that Texas will be number 

one. Is that accurate? 

Mr. LONG. Probably Texas. Well, I do not know. I take that back, 

because we are not done with Puerto Rico. We are still trying to 

uncover that. But, I would believe that right now Texas is probably 

the most expensive one. But here, again, that is just a pure guess, 

and we still have numbers coming in. 

Senator PETERS. And, obviously, with long-term funding, we have 

to have local government, State government engaged. But, they 

need to make plans for long-term investments to recover and to 

make sure that they are sustainable. But, it is difficult for them 

to do that without knowing the amount of money that is available, 

isn’t it? 

Mr. LONG. Yes, absolutely. Here again, the money comes mostly—the largest majority of the funding that States interact with 

FEMA is definitely on the recovery end. That goes back to the predisaster mitigation point. How do you plan to implement mitigation 

strategies when you have to get hit and you are not sure how much 

money you are going to come into based on the type of disaster? 

That is why I think that we have to preplan, take it out of recovery 

and put it up front so that you can do better visionary planning 

over the next couple of years to truly mitigate your communities. 

Senator PETERS. All right. Thank you. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Harris. 
26 

1The letter referenced by Senator Harris appears in the Appendix on page 88. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HARRIS 

Senator HARRIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this hearing on 

hurricanes, and I appreciate the Administrator speaking of California. This hearing is not about wildfires, but I would like to urge 

that we do everything we can to, as you appreciate, recognize we 

lost 42 lives in California, and the estimate is currently that we 

lost 8,900 homes and structures. 

On that point, from FEMA there is still—you are doing a great 

job, the Army Corps of Engineers. I was there. I visited the site. 

I have met with the families. And, you are absolutely right, it is 

devastating to those families and that community. 

In terms of FEMA, there is still a need—and I will just put this 

on your radar—for individual assistance to help cover temporary 

housing. You mentioned that. It is a big issue throughout the country and certainly in California around affordable housing. I know 

that FEMA does not have the number of trailers, and they are not 

on the production line in a way that we can get them to California 

as soon as they are needed. So, there is still a need for temporary 

housing, help, and basic essentials like clothing and baby formula. 

And, from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), if you can just pass this on, Community Development 

Block Grant (CDBG) funding for permanent housing is a big issue. 

Crop insurance, from the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). 

And then, from the Small Business Administration (SBA), we need 

business loans for small businesses that have been destroyed. So, 

I thank you for that. 

On October 27th, through the Environment and Public Works 

Committee, which I am also on, we sent a letter1 to FEMA and the 

EPA and the Army Corps of Engineers asking for information 

about a timeline and the work that has been completed or is yet 

to be done as it relates to debris. So, I would like to get an answer 

to that, and if we can get that within the next week, I would appreciate that. There are about seven specific questions. But, as you are 

aware and as has been mentioned here, there are millions of cubic 

feet of debris in Puerto Rico, and it is my understanding that we 

are looking at debris that is large. It ranges from rooftops to garage 

doors to refrigerators and couches, debris that the people who live 

there cannot pick up and move. 

There has also been a compromise to the landfills in Puerto Rico 

that existed before the hurricanes hit and remain a problem. It is 

my understanding that FEMA plans to remove the debris, but I am 

not clear on what the timeline is for actually getting that completed. Can you tell me what that plan is? 

Mr. LONG. So, each one of the events is extraordinarily different, 

and there is no one-size-fits-all approach when it comes to debris 

removal. For example, the California wildfires, if I may use that as 

an example, because of the nature of the hazard, you first have to 

go through and make sure that you remove all the hazardous materials from personal property. Then, obviously, as you said, the 

number of deaths is projected to go up to over 80, and that is because we are still searching for remains in a very humane manner, 
27 

trying to make sure that we go through the debris to find remains 

in the burn area. 

After all the environmental piece is done and we correctly go 

through to look for remains, then a lot of the debris contracting is 

done at the local level through private contracts. If those contracts 

fail or the Governor requests FEMA specifically, then we can mission assign the Army Corps of Engineers, which I believe the Army 

Corps of Engineers has been mission assigned in California, similar 

to Puerto Rico. 

Debris in Florida was done differently. A large majority of that 

was done at the local level by debris contracts and pre-event contracts that they established. So, each one of these may have different timelines because of the types of debris, but like Puerto 

Rico—— 

Senator HARRIS. Yes, what is the timeline for Puerto Rico? 

General JACKSON. Senator, I do not have an exact timeline for 

Puerto Rico. We have just started scratching the surface on debris 

removal. We have run into some really interesting politics within 

the 78 municipalities that make up Puerto Rico in terms of how 

they are allowing us to gain access. So, we are in some significant 

negotiations. Many of the municipalities have come back and said, 

‘‘We do not really want you to do it. We will take care of it ourselves.’’ So, we are going through that right now. 

I will respond to the letter that you sent with a much more definitive timeline than what I just gave you. 

Senator HARRIS. I appreciate that. And then, if you could also follow up on this point about what jurisdictions within Puerto Rico 

are hesitant to cooperate with your efforts so that we can make 

sure that we do our part to figure out how to get some cooperation. 

General JACKSON. We will do that, Senator. 

Senator HARRIS. OK. And, Dr. Kadlec, my understanding is that 

the debris piles that are occurring in Puerto Rico are wet from the 

recent rains; they are attracting pests that range from rodents to 

mosquitoes. And, there is also a concern that the pets that are 

going there and the rodents that are going there are leaving great 

amounts of urine that is also seeping into the waterways. Can you 

talk for a moment about the health risks associated with this accumulating debris? 

Dr. KADLEC. Well, ma’am, there are several issues that have to 

be dealt with in that, and one is the moldy kind of debris that you 

would be anticipating and, again, fungal growths that would be 

causing exacerbations of respiratory disease like asthma. Also, you 

would be very concerned about some of the immunosuppressant effects of certain fungal growths that are out there, people with 

immunocompromised situations. 

Probably the biggest concern about debris piles is that you find 

people climbing on them, rooting around in them, so there is likely 

lacerations, injuries, and infections, soft-tissue injuries that come 

from that. 

Senator HARRIS. And, bacterial diseases. Is that correct? 

Dr. KADLEC. Yes, ma’am, bacterial diseases—— 

Senator HARRIS. That can lead to death. 

Dr. KADLEC. And, the last one you did mention, but I will mention because it is a matter of topical interest, is leptospirosis which 
28 

is endemic to Puerto Rico. It occurs typically during the rainy season, August through December. There have been some cases already defined or declared and a couple of deaths suspected with 

that. It is a disease that is remedied by antibiotic therapy. About 

a week after the landfall of the hurricane, we were working with 

the State epidemiologist, and, again, everything we do is in support 

of the Department of Health on Puerto Rico, basically making 

available courses of antibiotic treatment to basically treat anticipated levels of leptospirosis and other bacterial infections. Typically, leptospirosis occurs in about a couple hundred cases a year. 

We would expect that to probably go higher than that because of 

the nature of the events. So, we have provided several thousand 

courses of treatment for Puerto Rico. 

Beyond those kinds of circumstances, you would be concerned 

about tetanus. We have also made available tetanus vaccines 

through the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and 

also have made available 24 environmental health officers to work 

with the department in Puerto Rico as well as epidemiologists to 

track not only these kinds of environmental hazards but also the 

cases that would be associated with it. 

Senator HARRIS. Mr. Chairman, I recognize my time is up. I 

would like as a follow up from each who has information about the 

incidents that we are also hearing of people in Puerto Rico drinking 

water from Superfund sites because of their desperation to get 

drinking water, and, obviously, there are obvious health risks, huge 

health risks associated with that. 

Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Lankford. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Gentlemen, thank you for being here and giving a chance to walk 

through this. I have a multitude of questions I am going to try to 

blitz through in a short period of time. 

Mr. Long, let me ask you this. This comes back to the preparation side of this. The Biggert-Waters Flood Insurance Program in 

2012 required a report every 6 months on how we are doing on the 

debt? What is happening there? What process do we have to be 

able to work out of the flood insurance debt? The previous Administration just stopped doing that report at the end of last year, so we 

do not have that really for 2 years. So, it made it difficult coming 

into this year and trying to deal with obvious flood issues when we 

do not have a report for the last 2 years. Do you know when that 

is planned to restart? I understand full well in the chaos of all that 

is trying to go with what is happening currently that is probably 

going to be behind again, but do you know where that is in the 

process of—— 

Mr. LONG. I do not, but we will follow up directly with you. 

Senator LANKFORD. That would be helpful. You also mentioned 

in your testimony about trying to interact with private entities in 

the private sector on flood insurance. Do you have any specific 

ideas on that, things that you plan to be able to bring at the end 

of this? 
29 

Mr. LONG. While the NFIP program is underneath my authorities, I am not an insurance expert when it comes to fixing the 

NFIP. Going into Hurricane Harvey, if I remember correctly—and 

this is, give or take a couple million here—we were $24 billion in 

debt roughly. And then, anytime you have a massive event—Hurricane Katrina sent it into debt. Hurricane Sandy sent it into debt. 

Hurricanes Harvey and Irma are going to send it into further debt, 

which Congress has recognized. 

We have to fix the business framework, and it has to require a 

solution from the private sector. I think the private sector should 

drive a lot of the market, and if we are going to continue to reward 

bad behavior by building in flood zones, then there needs to be actuarial risks that are involved. I fully understand the affordability 

issues, but I also believe that we cannot continue to allow conducting business under the same framework and continue to go 

into debt. 

I do not want to run a program that goes into debt, so I know 

what I do not know, and I know that we need the private sector’s 

support. I need your support to figure out the best way forward. 

Senator LANKFORD. So, let us work our way through this, which 

we understand will be months in the process, and years in many 

places in the process. But, we do need some help to be able to sit 

down at the table and be able to figure this out. 

Mr. LONG. Absolutely. 

Senator LANKFORD. We have ideas that we are bringing to it. Obviously, the practitioners that are working through this are going 

to have specific ideas. We have to deal with outside private sector 

insurance. We do not want to create a situation where the private 

sector creates insurance policies, and then as soon as they have 

claims, they walk away from it. 

Mr. LONG. Right. 

Senator LANKFORD. That does not help those individuals. It does 

not help the Federal Government. There have to be some ways to 

be able to establish some backstops that will work long term and 

can provide some affordability. So, I would like to commit that in 

the days ahead we are going to try to get some ideas worked out 

and look at a long-term plan. That is not going to be a year to resolve. That is going to be a decade or more to resolve, but we have 

to be able to get started on this. 

I know with FEMA as well there has been some interaction, and 

I am not going to press you on this because we have talked about 

it before. But, it is odd still in Florida and in Houston and in Puerto Rico that if a United Way facility has devastation, or a zoo or 

a museum has devastation, they can engage with FEMA for help. 

But, if a mosque, a synagogue, or a church has devastation, they 

cannot. All of those are nonprofits. But, for those that are considered houses of worship, they cannot engage in the same way. I feel 

like in reading the law from the 1990s, when Congress said that 

nonprofits would be included, that is all nonprofits. And, I will be 

able to continue that conversation in the days ahead with you on 

that. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Senator LANKFORD. I know there has been some pushback, which 

I think is reasonable to be able to ask that question on that. 
30 

General Jackson, by the way, your family is doing good? 

General JACKSON. Yes, sir. Thank you. 

Senator LANKFORD. Good. It is good to see you again. 

General JACKSON. Good to see you, Senator. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you for the way you continue to be 

able to serve the Nation. You mentioned a comment that about half 

of the power generation of Puerto Rico is from wind and solar and 

half of that is from fossil fuels. Did I hear that correctly? 

General JACKSON. Yes, Senator. 

Senator LANKFORD. So, of those that are there, what remains? 

What was the most resilient? What is still working? What is redeemable of that? 

General JACKSON. Very interesting, Senator, that you ask that, 

because I was very surprised when I flew over the renewable sites, 

the solar and the wind, the actual blades of the wind farms were 

snapped off, and the solar panels were all smashed. The actual 

power plants that held up the best were the typical standard power 

plants, be it the natural gas or coal fired or heavy diesel or what 

have you. Just the structures themselves held up better than the 

renewables did based on what I saw. 

Senator LANKFORD. I am not anti-renewable, to say the least, but 

I think part of the conversation that we have to have in helping 

Puerto Rico get back on its feet is to look at resiliency long term. 

So, I want us to be able to look at all of those things as we go 

through the process, and I know that will be a common conversation around this horseshoe and to be able to figure out how we actually get them back in place. 

I am asking a question that I know is unfair, so I am going to 

go ahead and tell you up front. We are all concerned about why 

Puerto Rico did not choose to do mutual aid for their power reconstruction. Texas did, Florida did; other groups when they have experienced it, they ask for mutual aid and engaged. What have you 

been told why they did not do that? Now, you cannot tell me why. 

I am only asking what have you been told why they did not ask 

for mutual aid. And, Mr. Long, the question is coming at you as 

well next on that. 

So, General Jackson, what have you been told why they did not 

request mutual aid? 

General JACKSON. Senator, I have been told that they did reach 

out at some point for mutual aid, but because it is a cost-shared 

arrangement and Puerto Rico is in the financial situation that they 

are in, utility companies were hesitant to engage because there was 

no guarantee of cost-share payment. 

Now, that changed, I believe, when the cost-share arrangement 

was waived, and then they reengaged, public power utilities reengaged. But, by that time, PREPA had already reached out and 

had engaged with a sole-source contract, and that is how that arrangement was started. That is what I have been told through multiple sources, but I obviously do not have any authority—— 

Senator LANKFORD. I understand, because, again, I am not asking what they did or why they made the decision, just what you 

were told. 

Mr. Long, is that the same thing you were told as well? 
31 

Mr. LONG. General Jackson is correct, and I agree with him. 

Many companies are not willing to engage until there is a guarantee of 100 percent. 

Senator LANKFORD. Right. 

Mr. LONG. And, the bottom line is that—I spoke with Governor 

Rossello yesterday. They are going to reengage the Emergency 

Management Assistance Compact (EMAC) process for power support. I think specifically they are having conversations with the 

States of Florida and New York. And, the goal is that my Federal 

Coordinating Officer, Mike Byrne, has requested that PREPA make 

sure that we are unified with the Army Corps so that we are not 

working in separate streams but we are working together in a consolidated effort. 

Senator LANKFORD. We will follow up with your staff because I 

have another question that is a process issue that we will have to 

just talk through, and that is, at times when FEMA cannot get it 

done with contracts, you are punting to Army Corps of Engineers 

to be able to handle any contracts. And, what I would be interested 

to know is the contracting process. Which one takes longer? Which 

one is more efficient? Which one has greater cost? At times there 

is some overlap in between as to who has debris removal, at what 

level FEMA can handle it, at what level they need to be able to 

hand it off. For us, that is going to be helpful just to be able to 

know because those are Federal dollars there. Which one is more 

efficient? Do we need to buffer one up to be able to correct another 

one? 

Mr. LONG. We do not typically contract to rebuild power grids. 

We mission assign the Army Corps of Engineers who handles the 

contracts directly to get the job done. The best-case scenario is the 

example of Florida. Florida Power and Light controls their destiny 

when it comes to restoring their own power grid and then activating mutual aid, and then FEMA basically serves in a supportive 

Federal role to reimburse those actions. 

Senator LANKFORD. My question will not be specifically on power. 

It will be on all contracting, whether it be debris removal or whatever it may be. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. OK. 

Senator LANKFORD. When we have to hire individual contractors, 

who handles that more efficiently? How does that actually work? 

Which one takes longer? 

Mr. LONG. Understood. 

Senator LANKFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Heitkamp. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP 

Senator HEITKAMP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, thank you 

to my colleague from New Hampshire for letting me go first. 

I have a few questions about the Navy ship Comfort according 

to the Department of Defense, the Comfort has one of the largest 

trauma facilities in the United States and is equipped as well as 

any kind of floating hospital can be equipped. It is capable of treating 200 patients per day with 250 beds available. But, yet we hear 

over and over again that there are people going without medical 

treatment. Despite that capability and a staff of over 800 trained 
32 

personnel, the Comfort has treated only 100 patients 17 days after 

arriving in Puerto Rico on October 3rd and 30 days after Hurricane 

Maria made landfall. 

Dr. Kadlec, how many patients have been treated on the Comfort 

so far that you are familiar with? And, can you elaborate on the 

challenges that we have had getting patients to the Comfort? 

Dr. KADLEC. Sure. I think the last count was 121 as a result of 

that. But, ma’am, before you make a judgment on that, let me just 

explain what was the approach using the Comfort as it related to 

its high-acuity capabilities, of which you are correct in saying there 

are 200 beds, but there are, more importantly, 50 intensive care 

unit beds on that boat, and that really was the capability we needed, because, quite frankly, if you looked at the events on the island, 

we had a Level 1 trauma center at Centro Medico which was the 

east side of the island. 

Senator HEITKAMP. So, how many of the patients that were treated aboard the Comfort were actually ICU patients? 

Dr. KADLEC. Were high-acuity patients? 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes. 

Dr. KADLEC. Well, if I recall correctly, over 60. I can get you that 

number, though, ma’am. But, the point was that we used that as 

a floating intensive care unit primarily in the bases when we are 

trying—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. So, it is your judgment that the Comfort has 

been fully utilized for the need in Puerto Rico? 

Dr. KADLEC. What it did was cover a critical bet that we had, 

which was based on the risk that hospitals would lose power because the majority of them—in fact, all of them were on generators 

for a period of time. Now we have 70 percent back on the grid. But, 

for the time being, when the hospitals were on generators and 

there was risk of failure before we could put backup-backup generators, we used the Comfort as a place where we could take highacuity patients, transport them by helicopter, by rotary wing 

medevac helicopter—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. I get all that, but I think anybody who looks 

at this—and maybe it is just the news, and I will turn to you, Administrator Long—who looks at the news and says, look, there is 

this huge medical need, people going without treatment, people at 

risk of losing their life, we have this incredible asset. This is an island. It is not like the United States of America where you might 

have something 3,000 miles away. Why does it seem to be, to me, 

underutilized? 

Mr. LONG. So, I appreciate the question, and I understand the 

frustrations in the question. The goal is always anytime you move 

medically fragile people, patients, out of a hospital, you take a risk 

of them surviving that move to begin with. So, the goal is to stabilize the situation in the hospitals, and there was a tremendous 

effort to do that. Because what we ran into was not only hospitals 

operating without power, but making sure that the generator actually worked, getting it fuel on a regular basis, and then maintenance of the generator ongoing. These generators are not designed 

to run for months. 

So, what we did is we initiated the Comfort—and, Bob, you can 

probably talk about the timeline it takes to actually do that. It is 
33 

about an 8-day process to even turn the keys on, fuel the boat, get 

everybody staffed to even mobilize and go to the island. It is a long 

process. But, the bottom line is we basically set up a 911 system, 

as I understand, to where in two or three cases a hospital generator would fail, we would move the most medically fragile patients 

via helicopter from the hospital to the Comfort. 

I would argue that it was being utilized very well. Again, the 

goal is to try to get the hospitals to operate. We are always going 

to be second-guessed on everything, but try to get the hospitals to 

operate and serve patients where they are. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Administrator Long, I know Senator Tester 

hit on this, but one of the concerns that I have, given what now 

has landed on your plate, is that all of our talk about mitigation, 

all of our talk about preparedness will take a back seat to just 

dealing with the disasters that you have been handed. We all know 

based on experiences with Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy, now, we 

are here for a month and then we leave. 

What are you going to do or what recommendations would you 

make to us in terms of staffing so that you have the capability of 

actually looking at mitigation and not just dealing with the crisis? 

Mr. LONG. Sure, and I have been concerned about that because 

my staff and the coordination through the Federal departments, I 

mean, tens of thousands of people have been deployed. If you look 

at the actual number that has been deployed starting with Hurricane Harvey, it has been unprecedented, and I do not have to say 

that. Unfortunately, I do feel like we are losing a lot of the successes that have actually been implemented as a result of the PostKatrina Emergency Management Reform Act. A lot of things went 

right. 

So, that we do not lose Puerto Rico, I plan to do an after-action 

report to make sure that we understand where we are versus 

where we need to be specifically when it comes not only to Puerto 

Rico but island territories. I want to go back and hit the reset button. 

In regards to staff specifically, eventually I would like to change 

the entire hiring process of the Federal Emergency Management 

Agency to adopt a more Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)-style 

academy approach. I would also like to expand my staff out of 

those regional offices to the States and islands to make sure that 

we are a part of that discussion every day. 

Senator HEITKAMP. I think you received an incredible amount of 

bipartisan support, in part because we understood what role you 

played in the lookback on Hurricane Katrina. We hope that you 

will be equally critical of the work that you have done as Administrator. 

Mr. LONG. Sure. 

Senator HEITKAMP. But, that you also will collaborate with us in 

terms of what you need. I think Senator Tester said it best. You 

cannot look at this and then understand this continues and think 

that we do not have a huge challenge where we need to look at all 

hands on deck, what are the requirements that we want to impose 

on States so that they understand what their role is going to be, 

so they are not overly dependent on the Federal Government, but 

that this work is seamless. 
34 

And so, I look forward to additional conversations with you and 

to understanding what you need. But, we cannot give you what you 

need if you do not ask. 

Mr. LONG. We would be happy to put that ask together, and if 

I may, each citizen is responsible for their own individual preparedness. We do not have a true culture of preparedness in this country, and we need to hit the reset button and look at how we partner 

with the Department of Education and give people critical skills. 

Gail McGovern with the Red Cross said that one in four of us is 

going to have to perform CPR to someone else at any given time. 

Are we giving people those Boy Scout-type skills as well as tangible 

things to understand that they may be the true first responder for 

an active shooter event, or if your neighbor’s house has collapsed 

upon them. Many times citizens are the first true responder, and 

we have to start dedicating our public awareness and cultural preparedness campaigns to doing that as well as figuring out what the 

State—— 

Senator HEITKAMP. I could not agree with you more. Thank you 

so much for your hard work and all of you working under very difficult circumstances. We hope that Congress can be an effective 

partner for you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. And, Senator Heitkamp, real quick before 

you leave, you may not have been here, but one of the action items 

I am taking away from here is literally that State-by-State, territory-by-territory assessment, who has prepared themselves? What 

is the current State so we can determine something in mitigation? 

We will definitely follow that up with a hearing. 

Senator HEITKAMP. Yes, Mr. Chairman, the Grand Forks flood 

was a devastating event. We all pulled our State disaster plan out, 

blew the dust off of it, and realized that we needed to take that 

process more seriously. So, nothing like a State disaster the caliber 

of this to realign all of our thinking. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Yes. So, we will work with you on that. Senator Hassan. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN 

Senator HASSAN. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and 

thank you all to the witnesses for being here today and for the 

work you do on behalf of our country. We are very grateful. I have 

three basic questions, and so I am going to try to move through 

them quickly so we can get to all of them. 

Administrator Long, I want to again thank you for being here 

today and also for briefing several Senators on a call on September 

28th in which you updated us on the U.S. Government’s relief efforts in Puerto Rico. On this call you said that the airports and seaports were all heavily damaged. You also added that the road networks were in many cases impassable and that you lacked trucks 

and personnel to be able to effectively distribute the ample relief 

supplies you had waiting on pallets. 

So, when did FEMA and the Department of Defense first make 

the assessment that the damage to the airports and seaports would 

encumber the delivery of relief supplies? 

Mr. LONG. Almost immediately, and that was the logistical complexity of being able to put forward the humanitarian mission. All 
35 

of those ports were damaged, but it was not just the ports. It was 

the air traffic control systems that also got those in. 

Senator HASSAN. So, it was almost immediate. So, when did you 

make the determination that you would need the full capabilities 

of the United States military to be able to distribute resources 

based on that assessment? And, when did you first ask the Department of Defense for the type of assets that were eventually provided for the relief response? 

Mr. LONG. Sure. And if I may defer here, but let me be clear. We 

engaged the Department of Defense before Hurricane Maria hit, so 

there were a ton of assets on the island before the storm hit. But, 

you can only put so many people and equipment on an island, or 

you expose it to the storm, and it becomes useless after the fact. 

So, it is a balancing game, but if I may defer? 

Senator HASSAN. Sure. Go ahead. 

Mr. SALESSES. Senator, my name is Bob Salesses. I am from the 

Defense Department. 

Senator HASSAN. Right. 

Mr. SALESSES. As you may recall Hurricane Irma came through 

first. As you know, it hit St. Thomas and St. John and did a lot 

of damage. We actually had DOD assets in the area. We had the 

United States Ships (USS)—— 

Senator HASSAN. So, I am just going to interrupt for a second, 

because on the September 28th call with FEMA and other Agencies, the DOD representative stated that the U.S. Northern Command was working on a plan to mobilize an additional sustainment 

force to Puerto Rico. Now, that is 8 days after the hurricane hit. 

Additionally, according to FEMA’s website, on October 1st, U.S. 

Northern Command delivered approximately 310,000 meals, 

150,000 liters of water, generators, tarps, additional sustainment 

units, and leading components of aviation command and control. 

Given that it was apparent from FEMA and DOD assessment that 

both the airports and seaports of Puerto Rico were heavily damaged and that this would cause immense distribution challenges, 

why did it take until October 1st to deliver aviation command and 

control to the island? And, why on September 28th was the U.S. 

Northern Command still working to finalize its plans to deliver a 

sustainment force? And, when did the sustainment force arrive? 

Mr. SALESSES. So, ma’am, to answer that question, again, there 

is concurrent activity always in these events. As I indicated, we 

had Navy ships in the area—the USS Kearsarge, the Oak Hill. 

They had helicopters. They were doing search and rescue capabilities. 

Simultaneously, USTRANSCOM, which is responsible for strategic airlift and providing C–17s and C–5s, was flying in assessment teams for airfields. As the Administrator pointed out, a number of those airfields had severe damage, no navigation aids, no radars, those kinds of things. That equipment had to be put in place. 

All of this was happening well before the 28th, ma’am. I do not 

know where the impression—— 

Senator HASSAN. Well, I will tell you, the impression came from 

the questions we asked on a conference call on September 28th. 

Mr. SALESSES. And, there was a lot of military capability. 
36 

Senator HASSAN. So, what I would ask is a follow up. We will, 

of course, have these letters to you directly, some real specifics 

here, because I think all of us were concerned that 8 days after the 

hurricane hit, it seemed like we were still having to suggest in that 

call that the United States military was going to be necessary to 

help get some supplies distributed because of the impassability of 

transportation infrastructure. 

I do, just because I have a couple of minutes left, want to move 

on to one other question to Administrator Long. Last week, 

ProPublica posted a story that stated that FEMA was declining to 

publicly release a document drafted several years ago that detailed 

how FEMA would respond to a major hurricane in Puerto Rico. According to ProPublica, FEMA started drafting the plans, known as 

the ‘‘Hurricane Annex,’’ after the lack of preparation in the wake 

of Hurricane Katrina. ProPublica also found similar plans posted 

on DOD’s website for Hawaii, which detailed an 85-step process to 

restore electricity on Hawaii in the event of a hurricane. 

So, why is FEMA not releasing this document to the public? And, 

could you please commit to making it public? And if not, will you 

please articulate what was in the Hurricane Annex and what steps 

you followed in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria? 

Mr. LONG. Sure, Senator. We gave it to the Committee last night, 

apparently. I was just briefed. 

Senator HASSAN. OK. 

Mr. LONG. But, I was unaware of the issue. I would be happy to 

follow up with you directly. 

Senator HASSAN. Well, thank you very much. And in that case, 

I will also just, before yielding back the remainder of my time, let 

you all know that—well, actually we have a minute. So, instead of 

giving this to the record, I did want to touch on the U.S. Virgin 

Islands and where we are in terms of power restoration and tourism, because perhaps even more so than Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands’ economy fundamentally depends on the ability of the 

islands to host tourists from all over the world. The Virgin Islands 

suffered a direct hit from not only Hurricane Maria but Hurricane 

Irma as well. These storms knocked out the power across these islands, and the islands cannot expect to begin to reestablish its 

tourism economy without the restoration of power, to say the least. 

Yet after more than a month, the U.S. Virgin Islands report that 

less than a third of the territories have power up and running. 

So, what steps are FEMA and DOD taking to restore full power 

to the U.S. Virgin Islands? And what is FEMA’s current estimate 

of when 100 percent of the islands will have power? 

Mr. LONG. So, excellent point. The Virgin Islands were hit equally as hard as Puerto Rico, and the bottom line is that they are basically in the same approach, but there are two different approaches 

being taken to restore the power, as I understand it. So, where we 

proactively pushed forward the Army Corps of Engineers in Puerto 

Rico, the power authority that represents the Virgin Islands is in 

control and conducting their own contracts and leading their power 

restoration. The last number I saw was that power should be restored by the December timeframe as well. But here, again, that 

is just an estimate. 
37 

Senator HASSAN. OK. Well, thank you again for your participation. I appreciate it very much. And, Mr. Chair, thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Hassan, let me just brief you what 

I know about that report you referenced. The Annex is jointly 

owned by FEMA and Puerto Rico. It was not released because 

Puerto Rico did not give FEMA permission to share with the 

media. We got it as a ‘‘For Official Use Only’’ (FOUO) document, 

which we are happy to share with you. But until Puerto Rico 

agrees to release it, it cannot be released to the general public. 

Senator HASSAN. Well, I would appreciate to see it. I am glad we 

have it. And, I will follow up with you further. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Daines. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR DAINES 

Senator DAINES. Thank you, Chairman Johnson. Thank you for 

testifying today, Administrator Long, it is good to see you again. 

I got to tell you, folks out in eastern Montana are very grateful 

that you listened to our pleas when we had some devastating 

wildfires that took out much of Garfield County. I think we have 

seen the criteria for dealing with a rural situation, a rural environment, which much of Montana is, can be a bit different than a disaster that hits one of our urban centers. I want to thank you for 

your responsiveness and, importantly, for your action, and the folks 

out in eastern Montana appreciate that a lot. 

We had a terrible wildfire season in Montana this past summer. 

In fact, Secretary Perdue listed the top wildfires in the Nation as 

ranked by dollars spent to fight them. We shave pent over $2 billion fighting wildfires this season, and it is still not over yet. The 

number one fire in the Nation was in Montana, the Lolo Peak fire. 

The number three fire in the Nation was in Montana, the Rice 

Ridge fire, just in terms of dollars. So, it was one of those terrible 

seasons, and, again, thank you, Mr. Long, for what you did in response to help us there in Montana. 

Much of the discussion here today has been on Puerto Rico and 

the devastating hurricane and the loss of the electric grid. 

Mr. Long, I will tell you, I was a bit surprised when I heard the 

story of a small contractor of two people most had never heard of, 

including myself, being awarded a contract that was worth $300 

million to rebuild Puerto Rico’s power grid. In the contract, the 

Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority, claimed it met all the guidelines and regulation set forth by FEMA and that it had been reviewed also by FEMA. 

Would you explain FEMA’s involvement in the contract process 

and how you monitor Federal dollars before they are allocated? 

Mr. LONG. Sure. So, let me be clear. The Whitefish contract was 

not a FEMA contract. PREPA entered into this contract in late 

September. We were notified several weeks after the fact. There is 

no lawyer inside FEMA that would have ever agreed to the language that was in that contract to begin with, so let me be very 

clear about that. And, we raised a red flag and basically said that, 

we are not sure this is a sole-source contract or a competitive rate. 

There were many things wrong. There was also language in there 

that would suggest that the Federal Government would never audit 
38 

Whitefish, which there is not a lawyer inside FEMA that would 

ever agree to that type of language. 

So, the bottom line is that, as I understand, not one dollar has 

gone toward that contract from FEMA, and what we are doing is 

rectifying to make sure that PREPA has not requested any funding 

for that reimbursement effort. 

We have a lot of work to do when it comes to grant monitoring 

at all levels of government. It is not just FEMA, but it is at the 

State and the local governments when it comes to the grantees that 

are there. We ask them to always follow pre-disaster bid laws and 

policies, because when you change those policies after a disaster, 

it is going to hang you up in an audit. We also ask them to follow 

emergency bid laws when it comes to the procurement process, according to 2 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). 

So, we have a lot of work to do when it comes to training and 

ensuring grant monitoring, but in that case, that was not our contract. 

Senator DAINES. Thank you. I will be interested, as you dig into 

that one, in what the lessons learned are from that situation and 

how we can improve that process. It is always one of the concerns 

when we have a disaster. Of course, we want to move quickly. People are in need, people are dying. But, we also want to make sure 

we are accountable, efficient, and there is oftentimes opportunity 

for a tremendous amount of waste in a situation where we are 

spending billions of dollars following some of these disasters. So, I 

look forward to that follow up, what you learned from that, Mr. 

Long. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Peters. 

Senator PETERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Long, one of my constituents volunteered through the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organization 

(AFL–CIO) to provide assistance in Puerto Rico. He was there from 

October 4th through the 18th, and he certainly said the citizens remarked how grateful they were for the assistance that was being 

provided by his group because no one else seemed to be there to 

help, was at least his experience on the ground. I know a group of 

National Nurses United had a similar experience and also made 

some of the same comments to me. 

It seems to be a common perception that assistance was not 

reaching the people in need in Puerto Rico, that there were some 

distribution problems, that stuff may have gone to distribution centers but it was not getting out actually to the individuals. So, my 

question is: Why were we hearing that from volunteers? And, do 

you believe that was an issue? 

Mr. LONG. I cannot speak to the gentleman’s direct experience, 

but I can explain the logistical complexities that we faced when it 

came to the humanitarian issues of getting meals and water out. 

As we were discussing earlier, all the ports were damaged. It 

took us time to not only rebuild the air traffic control system but 

open up the ports. We pre-staged quite a bit of food in our Caribbean Area Division before the storm. You can only stage so much 

on the island. We also checked with Governor Rossello and the 

school systems. They had a lot of food inside the shelters, multiple 
39 

days of food in each one of the school shelters that were there. So, 

we tried to put as much food forward as possible before the storm 

hit. 

When it came to the diminished capacity, obviously the State and 

local governments, they were disaster survivors. As we began to 

push in the food to the island, we had to quickly mobilize 10 regional distribution hubs where we would fly it in, set up and stage 

all the commodities, and then force the food and water to each one 

of these distribution hubs. We had to establish communication with 

all 78 mayors because there was no survivable comms that were 

there. We started communicating and sending liaisons to mayors 

and making sure that we got the commodities to them directly. If 

they could not get it to the final mile, then we would actually air 

drop if there were isolation issues. I do not know how many isolation-based air drops we have made, but they are continuing today. 

Did we get to everybody? It is hard to say. Part of it was the lack 

of communications and that we recognized that people were not 

sure where to go. In some cases what I saw with my own eyes, I 

went to Utuado in the central portions, mountainous regions of 

Puerto Rico, where some of the folks in the isolated communities 

are being really resilient and they are not choosing to come to the 

areas where food and water is. 

So, the bottom line is I feel certain that this is probably one of 

the largest humanitarian missions that we have ever conducted in 

the United States, and there are 10 of millions of meals and water 

that were pushed, and there is a lot of assets on there. 

I have also asked the Office of Inspector General (OIG) to look 

into how our commodities were being used by some of the mayors 

as well, and it is my understanding that the FBI may be looking 

at that as well. 

Senator PETERS. Well, I appreciate your candor. I know this was 

an incredibly difficult task that you were involved in and continue 

to be involved in, probably for quite some time, and I appreciate 

your efforts on that. And, you have been very candid in this hearing today, and that is refreshing to have that kind of candor because the idea is that we have to learn—celebrate what we did 

right and learn from our mistakes to be ready for the future. But 

what would be your assessment in Puerto Rico on a scale of 1 to 

10, in your expert capacity, as to FEMA’s ability to meet the disaster? 

Mr. LONG. Well, I think we have a lot of work to do. One of the 

first things I want to do is come back and have an after-action. I 

want to figure out the grant funding that went to Puerto Rico. 

What did we get in return of that? I want to make sure that—the 

commodity capabilities that are on the island are obviously too 

small. How do we set up island territories to be more self-sufficient, 

that it does not require a massive DOD mission to be able to fly 

these things in? There are a whole host of improvements that need 

to be made, and I recognize that. I will be dedicated to making sure 

that we find out and do an exhaustive after-action, and if there are 

issues where I need to send in support, I will be definitely coming 

back to you to ask for that support to change the way that we do 

business in the future. 
40 

Trust me, I do not want to go through this event again as much 

as anybody else. 

Senator PETERS. Right. Well, and I asked the 1 to 10. That may 

be tough for you to do, but perhaps for the average Puerto Rican, 

how would they rate the Federal Government’s response? You have 

been on the ground an awful lot. I appreciate that. From 1 to 10, 

what do you think they would say? 

Mr. LONG. Senator, with all due respect, obviously people have 

different experiences. I am not interested in giving myself a grade 

or rating each other. Quite honestly, that would be the only thing 

that the media picked up today in this congressional hearing if that 

is the case. Could we have done better? Did we move as fast as people want? Obviously, in some cases no. But, if you look in the 

Miami Herald this morning, the State Department representative, 

Luis Rivera, read his assessment, and go talk to the 78 mayors, all 

of them, and get your assessment from them, please, because for 

me to sit back and say we did things perfectly, I know we did not. 

Of course, there are things that I wish had gone better, or things 

that I had known going into that event, obviously. But, the bottom 

line is that I know at the end of the day we pushed as hard as we 

could, our partners pushed as hard as we could, and we moved as 

fast as the situation allowed. And, this is one of the most 

logistically complex disasters that this Nation has faced. 

Senator PETERS. You mentioned talking to local mayors. Actually, that leads into the second question I have. As you know, Isabella County and Midland County, Michigan, experienced some catastrophic flooding this summer, one of the long list of issues that 

you had that were on your plate this year. And, I heard from county administrators, emergency responders, as well as impacted constituents in general that they were very appreciative of the work 

that FEMA did to help them in responding to that flooding. 

But that said, they also thought that FEMA could have done a 

much better job of coordinating with local officials at the beginning 

of their response efforts. And, in our experience, I think as you 

mentioned, up-front coordination with local authorities can go a 

long way to facilitating that kind of response. But, that is what I 

heard from my folks in Michigan, although, again, being supportive 

of your efforts, but thinking that that was a lack in FEMA’s efforts, 

was the local coordination with local officials. 

What do you think we should be doing to better that type of cooperative effort? 

Mr. LONG. Personally, I would like to expand our footprint. I 

would like to change our footprint and graduate beyond the regional offices. I would like to develop what we call ‘‘State Integration Teams’’ that are multifaceted, that are there working with the 

State every day and being able to drive out to your local counties 

and doing things such as approving mitigation plans, without having it to come all the way back through the region or up to headquarters. I would like to change the workforce. I would like to 

make our reservist cadre more in line with what the National 

Guard approach is, so that you can have a full-time job, step away 

from your job to go support FEMA in a disaster without losing that 

daytime job. 
41 

I would like to change our entire workforce program to be more 

like an FBI model. We are the only public safety agency in the 

country that does not have a true academy-style model of hiring 

and graduating people through our system so that we are training 

everybody to be the next Federal Coordinating Officer that understands all aspects of this program. I am frustrated by our hiring 

processes. I would like to rewrite the book on how we do that and 

how we maintain and utilize disaster reservists who are critically 

important to our mission. 

Senator PETERS. I think those are all really good thoughts. I look 

forward to working with you on those issues going forward. Thank 

you, Mr. Long. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Peters. 

One of the concerns I have, just kind of listening to some of the 

dialogue here, is I do not want to see FEMA be the primary responder here. I believe their role is to support State and local governments, to support them. And, the more we expect out of FEMA, 

first of all, we are going to spread them thinner, and now you are 

going to have, again, a one-size-fits-all model, and it is going to be 

the Federal Government that is going to have to decide where all 

these assets have to be deployed ahead of time. States and local 

governments need to understand that. They need to understand 

their risks. They need to be held responsible as well. 

And so, I think we need to be very careful as we go down this 

road and say, ‘‘Well, how come FEMA did not do the job perfectly, 

and listen to people’s complaints,’’ oh, they did not coordinate quite 

as well as we would like to. Again, it is to help them. FEMA’s role 

is to help, to be subordinate to that. I think that is incredibly important. 

I have only got one other point I want to make, because it was 

pretty interesting talking to you, Administrator Long. We have so 

much foodstuffs and water to a certain extent down in Puerto Rico. 

You pointed out the fact that the private sector is now asking you. 

We need to reestablish ourselves. If our population is going to rely 

on FEMA and the Federal Government to provide meals, we are 

not going to have the private sector firing back up and have grocery stores operating properly. 

Can you just kind of talk about what—— 

Mr. LONG. Sure, you are absolutely right. So, the goal is always 

to get the retail industry back up and running, and the last number I saw was roughly 90 percent. Obviously, as the retail industry 

comes up, we should be drawing down on the commodity mission. 

In many cases the mayors have asked us to stop the flow of food, 

but continue the water deliveries until the water system is fully 

back online. 

So, it is a constant communication battle every day—or not battle. It is just constant good communication every day with the mayors to understand what the need is, where the private sector market is. But, as we go forward, I do think that we have to form tighter bonds with the private sector and understand the modeling to 

see this not only in Puerto Rico but in California or Florida or 

Texas to say here is where the market is, here is where the gas 

stations are coming back online so that we can tailor the response 

day in and day out. 
42 

Chairman JOHNSON. I think your name describes what your 

function is: Federal Emergency Management Agency. It is not Federal recovery. It is not long-term recovery. That is going to be other 

Federal Agencies, but hopefully more State and local governments 

are going to really take up the responsibility of recovering in their 

local jurisdictions. 

With that, Senator Carper. 

Senator CARPER. Just to follow on what the Chairman is saying, 

the last 100 years, 33 Category 5 hurricanes; this fall, 2 within a 

matter of weeks of one another. We have seen this very interesting 

chart, very instructive chart that the Chairman has shown that indicates what is happening in terms of the frequencies of this kind 

of crazy weather that we are faced with. And, this is a shared responsibility. But, I would feel that we had failed in our responsibilities collectively if we simply help rebuild an electric grid in Puerto 

Rico that is just as vulnerable, that is just as energy inefficient, 

and that is just as polluting as what they largely have faced in 

past decades. I think we would have really missed an opportunity. 

My colleague Senator Peters asked you, Mr. Long, to evaluate or 

maybe provide a grade of some sort to the work of FEMA so far. 

We have a saying in Delaware, when a little fighter is fighting a 

big fighter and wins, we say that the little fighter fights above his 

or her weight. And, I think FEMA is punching above its weight, 

and we applaud that. I think the grade to be assigned is probably 

‘‘incomplete’’ because there is plenty of work still to do, and I think 

you know that. 

Richard Nixon used to—I am the only Democrat I know that 

quotes Richard Nixon, but Nixon used to say, ‘‘The only people who 

do not make mistakes are people who do not do anything.’’ Think 

about that. 

Tom Carper always says, ‘‘Everything I do, I know I can do better, and if it is not perfect, make it better.’’ So, that is our goal. 

We know perfection is probably not achievable, but we certainly 

want to head in that direction regardless of whether you sit on this 

side of the dais or your side. 

Senator Peters also talked about the interaction and interface between State and local folks and FEMA, and this will be one short 

question for you, Administrator Long. There has been some feedback that there has been a disconnect between the Government of 

Puerto Rico, FEMA, the Army Corps of Engineers, and various contractors on the ground regarding roles and responsibilities, who is 

doing what activity. I do not think that is totally surprising. But, 

what are you doing to ensure that a cohesive effort that supports 

the Governor of Puerto Rico who is ultimately in charge of recovery 

efforts? Would you just respond to that? 

Mr. LONG. Sure. It is a great question. So, clear communication 

is what is needed to succeed, and I speak to Governor Rossello multiple times a week on a regular basis. But, what we do, obviously, 

to have wide area management capability over the magnitude of 

everything that has happened is I have to rely very heavily on Federal Coordinating Officers. For the example of Puerto Rico, Mike 

Byrne is my Federal Coordinating Officer. Technically, he is appointed by the President, if you look at the Stafford Act. And so, 

I have Federal Coordinating Officers over each one of these disas-
43 

ters that I stay in touch with, but I also reach out very regularly 

to Governor Rossello. I have to tell you, every day that man goes 

to work trying to do the best that he can for Puerto Rico, and I 

have deep respect for the Governor and what he is trying to do and 

work through. He is facing the most complex disaster of many of 

them. 

So, the communication is good, but I have to set up recovery command onsite and allow the decisions to be made onsite rather than 

all the way back up here in D.C. Incident command decisions have 

to be made closest to where the disaster is, not up here. 

Senator CARPER. Sometimes when I see adult children of my 

friends who have gone on to do great things in their life, I say they 

picked the right parents. And, I would say to Rick Rossello, the 

Governor now, that he picked the right parents—my old colleague 

Pedro Rossello, with whom I served from 1993 to 2001 as Governor. 

I want to ask one question for each of you, and then I am done. 

But, the question is this: Just name one thing, each of you just 

name one thing that folks on my side of the aisle, those with whom 

we serve here in the Senate and the House, one thing that we need 

to be doing to enable you and your folks to do a better job. Just 

one thing, please. And, we will just start, if I can, with Dr. Kadlec. 

Are you an Air Force Academy graduate? 

Dr. KADLEC. Yes, sir, I am. 

Senator CARPER. Navy salutes Air Force. Good for you. 

Dr. KADLEC. You beat us at football, though. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you for your service. 

Dr. KADLEC. Thank you, sir. I think one of the issues that came 

up was about streamlining processes in effect and activities. For 

the health care, we talk about minutes and hours, really depending 

life-and-death decisions, and being able to intervene positively. 

And, I think one of the areas that Congress should look at is dependencies. Dependencies affect all the activities here. What makes 

it more streamlined? What makes it more efficient? What makes it, 

most importantly, more effective? And, those are the areas that I 

would identify as most important. 

Senator CARPER. OK. Thank you. General Jackson. 

General JACKSON. Senator, thank you for the question. Since we 

have spoken mostly about the power grid restoration, I think that 

is where my comment would come from, and that is, I think if Congress can decide what end state looks like, there are multiple requirements that could be out there, multiple things that could be 

done. They all cost different amounts of money. But, what does end 

state look like, and what does the Nation want us to do, whether 

it is what the Corps is doing or what whoever will do in terms of, 

what the power generation will look like, what the transmission 

lines and such will look like. Being able to craft what end state 

looks like with the resources to match would be my recommendation. 

Senator CARPER. Good. Thank you so much. 

Mr. SALESSES. Senator, thank you for the question. I would say 

continue to support the men and women in uniform. Specifically, 

the Defense Department did enormous work in all of these hurricanes. As you know, the number of Navy ships, the strategic airlift 

that was involved in this, the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine 
44 

Corps, Active, Reserve, and Guard, that made a huge difference in 

each one of these hurricanes. The Defense Department has evolved 

greatly in that responsibility of supporting civil authorities, and 

that needs to continue because it makes all the difference to our 

citizens. 

Senator CARPER. When I am talking with folks from different 

armed services other than the Navy, sometimes I will—there is a 

friendly inter-service rivalry, as you know, not just on the football 

field. But, I always say to them at the end of those conversations, 

‘‘Different uniforms, same team.’’ And, it is a great team. Administrator Long. 

Mr. LONG. Externally, for the entire country, I think survivable 

communications is something that we have to address with the private sector. We become more and more vulnerable every day as we 

go to digital networks, and when you do not have redundant systems or mitigated systems designed to handle all hazards, then it 

creates panic. As we have seen, we basically just went through a 

complete and total communication blackout for an island, and it 

created a lot of panic, a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of misinformation. That was incredibly frustrating. So, I think we have a 

lot of work to do for survivable comms. 

Internally, fix the NFIP, do more pre-disaster mitigation, and let 

us come back to the drawing board on the Disaster Relief Fund 

(DRF). 

Senator CARPER. Thank you to all of you and the teams you lead. 

Thank you so much. 

Mr. LONG. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. 

So, my final comment, I appreciate my colleagues like this chart. 

There are a number of factors that are built into the dramatic increase in the FEMA declarations. One of them is just that we declare more disasters a FEMA disaster. And, my concern is that— 

I will not say the word ‘‘abdication,’’ but certainly local and State 

authorities are happy to have the Federal Government spend their 

money and be responsible for a greater share of these things that 

are occurring within their States. That is part of the factor here. 

But, again, I want to thank all of you. I think your efforts have 

been extraordinary. I would give you a pretty high grade, personally. Again, this is unprecedented what had happened here. You 

get 51 inches in any place, there is no way to plan for that. That 

is going to create a lot of destruction. You get Category 5 hurricanes going over an entire island, even one that is in the Caribbean 

that is used to hurricanes, that is going to cause a disaster. You 

just do not snap your fingers and alleviate all pain and suffering. 

So, again, I think the men and women that have worked with 

you have done an extraordinary job, and I thank all of them and 

I thank all of you. 

With that, this hearing record will remain open for 15 days, until 

November 15th at 5 p.m., for the submission of statements and 

questions for the record. This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:13 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 
(45) 

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Æ