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89–639—PDF 2014

S. HRG. 113–380 

NOMINATIONS OF KAREN DYNAN AND 

RICHARD G. FRANK 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

ON THE

NOMINATIONS OF 

KAREN DYNAN, TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC POLICY, 

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY; AND RICHARD G. FRANK, TO BE 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR PLANNING AND EVALUATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES 

JANUARY 30, 2014 

( 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Finance 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

MAX BAUCUS, Montana, Chairman 

JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia 

RON WYDEN, Oregon 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

BILL NELSON, Florida 

ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio 

MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado 

ROBERT P. CASEY, Jr., Pennsylvania 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

CHUCK GRASSLEY, Iowa 

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

JOHN THUNE, South Dakota 

RICHARD BURR, North Carolina 

JOHNNY ISAKSON, Georgia 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

PATRICK J. TOOMEY, Pennsylvania 

AMBER COTTLE, Staff Director 

CHRIS CAMPBELL, Republican Staff Director 

(II) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Baucus, Hon. Max, a U.S. Senator from Montana, chairman, Committee 

on Finance ............................................................................................................ 1 

Hatch, Hon. Orrin G., a U.S. Senator from Utah ................................................. 3 

ADMINISTRATION NOMINEES 

Dynan, Dr. Karen, nominated to be Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy, 

Department of the Treasury, Washington, DC .................................................. 5 

Frank, Dr. Richard G., nominated to be Assistant Secretary for Planning 

and Evaluation, Department of Health and Human Services, Washington, 

DC .......................................................................................................................... 6 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL 

Baucus, Hon. Max: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 15 

Dynan, Dr. Karen: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 17 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 19 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 36 

Frank, Dr. Richard G.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 48 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 50 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 90 

Hatch, Hon. Orrin G.: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 3 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 95 

(III) 

(1) 

NOMINATIONS OF KAREN DYNAN, TO BE 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC 

POLICY, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY; 

AND RICHARD G. FRANK, TO BE 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR PLANNING 

AND EVALUATION, DEPARTMENT OF 

HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES 

THURSDAY, JANUARY 30, 2014 

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE, 

Washington, DC. 

The hearing was convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in 

room SD–215, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Max Baucus 

(chairman of the committee) presiding. 

Present: Senators Cardin, Hatch, and Isakson. 

Also present: Democratic Staff: Mac Campbell, Deputy Staff Director; Tiffany Smith, Senior Tax Counsel; David Schwartz, Chief 

Health Counsel; Anderson Heiman, Nominations and Tax Policy 

Advisor; and Sara Harshman, Research Assistant. Republican 

Staff: Chris Campbell, Staff Director; Jeff Wrase, Chief Economist; 

Kimberly Brandt, Chief Healthcare Investigative Counsel; Nicholas 

Wyatt, Tax and Nominations Professional Staff Member; and Anna 

Bonelli, Detailee. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MAX BAUCUS, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM MONTANA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. 

President Woodrow Wilson once said, and I quote him: ‘‘I not 

only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow.’’ This 

administration, like any other, needs to bring together all the 

brains, wisdom, and experience that it can. 

We face tough challenges as a Nation—high unemployment and 

an under-performing economy, a struggling middle class—and we 

need public servants of great expertise to help put American back 

on track. 

With us today are two nominees who fit the bill: Dr. Karen 

Dynan and Dr. Richard Frank. Both bring decades of experience in 

government and academia. They are well-respected in their fields. 

Their knowledge and skills will be vital as they take on their new 

roles. 

First is Dr. Karen Dynan, who is nominated to be Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy at the Department of Treasury. She has 

2 

already contributed decades of valuable research in the field of economics. She brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the position, particularly in macroeconomics, housing finance, and household savings. 

That expertise will be critical to the Treasury Department. Why? 

Because we are still rebounding from the Great Recession. Between 

2007 and 2009, net household wealth in the United States dropped 

by more than $16 trillion. The recession cost the United States 

about 8.7 million jobs. 

And Treasury plays a key role in the recovery. If confirmed, Dr. 

Dynan will lead the office of Economic Policy and help formulate 

policies to safeguard and grow our economy. Her job will include 

many issues important to this committee, including reforming the 

tax code, strengthening Social Security and Medicare, and developing our tribal economies. 

Dr. Dynan previously served as the vice president and co-director 

of the Economic Studies Program at The Brookings Institution, and 

prior to that she was a distinguished economist and advisor to the 

Federal Reserve at the Council of Economic Advisors. 

If confirmed, I am confident Dr. Dynan will provide Secretary 

Lew, the President, and this committee with clear, direct, and valuable analysis. 

Next, we have Dr. Richard Frank, who is nominated to serve as 

Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation at the Department of Health and Human Services. If confirmed, it will be Dr. 

Frank’s job to analyze the agency’s core health care policies, to examine their costs, their benefits, and coordinate the Department’s 

strategic and legislative planning. 

In short, Dr. Frank and his team will help keep HHS and its programs on track. With everything on the Department’s plate, this is 

an important task. HHS continues to work on implementing and 

overseeing the Affordable Care Act, strengthening the safety net, 

and improving our health care programs. For the past 15 years, Dr. 

Frank has been a professor of health economics at Harvard Medical 

School. From 2009 to 2011, he took a leave from Harvard to serve 

as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation. 

He directed the Office on Disability, Aging, and Long-Term Care 

Policy—one of the five main offices he would oversee, if confirmed. 

And in 2011, he received the Distinguished Service Award from the 

Mental Health Association of Maryland. Dr. Frank’s qualifications 

are impeccable, and he is the right person for the job. 

I thank both nominees for joining us here today, and I commend 

their desire to serve the public. I look forward to hearing their testimony. 

Let us remember President Wilson’s words: ‘‘I not only use all 

the brains I have, but all that I can borrow.’’ I know all of you, as 

brainy as you are, will also be borrowing a lot of other brains. 

If confirmed, Dr. Dynan and Dr. Frank will step into significant, 

challenging roles, but, with all of their knowledge and expertise, 

they will make invaluable contributions to the administration of 

the country, and they are ready to join the team. I hope the committee can act on these nominations very quickly. 

3 

[The prepared statement of Chairman Baucus appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. I now turn to my good friend, Senator Hatch. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ORRIN G. HATCH, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH 

Senator HATCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Today we are here to discuss two nominees. Each one, if confirmed, will conduct important policy analysis, but for different 

agencies. 

Let me first address Dr. Karen Dynan, President Obama’s nominee to be Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy at the Department of Treasury, who appears to me to be very well-qualified for 

this position, and I think she should appear to everybody as wellqualified. 

She has a long career history of providing careful economic analysis, and, if she is confirmed, I hope that this will continue during 

her time at the Treasury. That said, I would like to comment on 

the unfortunate trend we see in this committee’s processing of 

nominees to various positions in the administration. 

I want to mention it now because I hope that this practice will 

stop with Dr. Dynan’s nomination. As the committee processes 

nominees, it is customary for Senators to submit written questions 

for the record. Unfortunately, in recent years the answers we have 

been given or are receiving in response to these questions have 

been lacking. 

Indeed, responses we receive from nominees, particularly Treasury nominees, have been incomplete at best and are becoming increasingly vacuous, often having little bearing on the real policy 

questions that are being asked. The situation seems to be getting 

worse. Despite complaints I have registered in this committee for 

years now, it is not just with nominees. Sitting Treasury officials 

have answered questions in a similar manner, if they answer them 

at all. 

Now, I am personally pleased to see, in Dr. Dynan’s testimony, 

an acknowledgement of the utility of using ‘‘data-driven’’ approaches to policy analysis. Such an approach is consistent with repeated requests I have made for data and information about Treasury’s debt and cash positions as we near a debt limit. Unfortunately, Treasury has not been willing to work with me thus far to 

improve data flows and availability to Congress, including the Congressional Budget Office, on debt-related matters. 

Lack of information here in Congress leads to a situation where 

the Majority Leader in the Senate has recently said that we have 

until May to increase the debt limit, while the Treasury Secretary 

says something else based on what he says is the ‘‘best data.’’ 

I have repeatedly asked Treasury for answers relating to those 

data, only to have my requests ignored. Sadly, this is par for the 

course with this administration. This does not bear directly on Dr. 

Dynan’s nomination, but I do hope that I have adequately communicated the level of frustration I have, and others on this committee have, with the communication received from the Treasury 

Department. 

4 

Dr. Dynan, if you are confirmed—and I intend to see that you 

are—I hope you will commit to working with members of this committee from both parties to provide the best information possible on 

matters under your jurisdiction. I have very high confidence in you. 

I have great confidence in your husband. What a duo! 

He has done a great job for the Congress of the United States, 

and I think he has done it with the highest sense of ethics and capacity. I expect you to be every bit as good. So I am just saying 

this while your two daughters are here so they will hear it, but we 

intend to support you, and we congratulate you for being willing 

to serve your government, our government, the way you are. 

Next, let me turn to President Obama’s nominee to be Assistant 

Secretary for Planning and Evaluation at the Department of 

Health and Human Services. Do not worry; I am not going to dump 

all over you just because I have been nice. [Laughter.] 

The CHAIRMAN. You are going to be even nicer? 

Senator HATCH. No, I am not going to be nicer. [Laughter.] 

I will be nice. Sorry. 

If confirmed, Dr. Frank will run the policy-setting arm of HHS. 

Congress, the Secretary, and others rely on the Assistant Secretary 

to produce fact-based, impartial analysis of important policy problems, not the least of which will include an accurate assessment of 

Obamacare enrollment. 

With the difficulties facing HHS as it implements the Affordable 

Care Act and administers health care programs for millions nationwide, ASPE needs thoughtful and experienced leadership. From 

what I have seen, Dr. Frank, I think, will provide that leadership. 

He is capable and able to provide that leadership. 

I intend to support you as well, and I hope that these appointments go through right away. We think both of you will be great 

additions in these areas, and I just want to congratulate both of 

you for being willing to serve your country, and to work for your 

country and serve it. 

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Hatch appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Dynan, why don’t you go first? Why don’t you 

introduce your family here so we can all see who all is part of the 

team? 

Dr. DYNAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to introduce 

my daughters, Laura and Caroline Elmendorf, who are sitting behind me. Laura is a freshman at Williams College in Massachusetts, and Caroline, her twin sister, is a freshman at Wesleyan 

University in Connecticut. My husband, Doug Elmendorf, is also 

here today. Like me, he is an economist and has spent most of his 

career in public service. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you. Why don’t all three of you 

stand, please, so we can recognize you? Thank you. And thanks for 

all being part of the family. [Applause.] 

We know, obviously, Doug quite well. We do not know your two 

daughters as well, but wish you all very well. 

Why don’t you proceed with your testimony? 

5 

STATEMENT OF DR. KAREN DYNAN, NOMINATED TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC POLICY, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY, WASHINGTON, DC 

Dr. DYNAN. Thank you. Chairman Baucus, Ranking Member 

Hatch, members of the committee, it is a privilege to be here. I am 

honored to have been nominated by President Obama, and I am 

grateful to Secretary Lew for recommending me. Thank you for 

your consideration. 

I did appreciate the opportunity to introduce my family members 

who are here. My parents, Bill and Ann Dynan, also wanted to be 

here. They live in Connecticut and were unable to make the trip, 

but I want to credit them with teaching me some important lessons 

that continue to influence the way I approach my work today. 

My father, who is now 90 years old, served in the Army in World 

War II and later became a successful businessman. When he started his own small business in the late 1970s, the economy was in 

a rocky state. The business eventually became successful, but the 

experience left me with a deep appreciation of the importance of 

having an economic environment in which businesses can thrive. 

My mother raised me and my three siblings, but she always 

managed to find time to help out in our community. She volunteered for our church, our public schools, and a variety of service 

organizations like the American Red Cross. Both she and my father 

continue to spend time every week doing volunteer work. Watching 

them support their community over the years has made me a passionate believer in the importance of public service. 

I decided to attend graduate school in economics based on my interest in public policy. My professors at Harvard, and especially my 

main dissertation advisor, Professor Greg Mankiw, taught me the 

importance of taking a dispassionate, data-driven approach when 

analyzing the effects of policy. 

My professors also emphasized that one should explore the possible unintended consequences, as well as the intended effects of 

any given policy idea. Both these threads run through the work of 

economists at universities, in government, and in the think tank 

world, and I have endeavored always to keep both in my mind and 

my own work. 

Since receiving my doctorate, I have been very fortunate to work 

on important economic policy issues in a variety of roles. After 

graduate school, I joined the staff of the Federal Reserve Board and 

spent most of the next 17 years there, working first for Chairman 

Greenspan and then for Chairman Bernanke. I took a break to join 

the staff of the Council of Economic Advisors from 2003 to 2004, 

during my former academic advisor Greg Mankiw’s tenure as 

Chairman. 

In 2009, I left the Fed to become vice president for economic 

studies at The Brookings Institution. Being at Brookings gave me 

a chance to work on an even wider range of policy issues and to 

interact with, and learn from, a broad range of people and groups 

on the front lines of our economy, including the general public, consumer advocates, and business leaders. 

While my research as an economist has addressed a number of 

macroeconomic issues, household economic security has been a particular passion of mine. I have explored the factors that underlie 

6 

consumer spending and saving decisions, including the roles of income uncertainty, tax credits, house and stock price appreciation, 

and credit availability. 

In the wake of the recent mortgage crisis, I have also studied the 

effects of household debt and de-leveraging on the economy, as well 

as foreclosure issues. Putting households on a firmer economic and 

financial footing is an important policy goal of President Obama’s, 

and I hope that my past and future research results can help us 

meet that goal. 

If confirmed, I hope to draw from the lessons I have learned from 

my experiences and from my research while Assistant Secretary for 

Economic Policy at the Treasury Department. Although our economy has made a great deal of progress since the end of the Great 

Recession, the recovery remains incomplete and there is important 

work to be done to make sure we are on the right track to achieve 

robust and broadly shared economic growth over the long run. 

Thank you for the consideration of my nomination, and I look 

forward to answering your questions. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Dr. Dynan. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Dynan appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Frank, you are next. 

Dr. FRANK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. And I am sure you have family here you would 

like to introduce. 

Dr. FRANK. I do. I would like to introduce my wife, Elizabeth 

Frank. We have two sons, neither of whom is here. One is serving 

in the Peace Corps in Ecuador right now, and the other one is trying to start a business in London. 

The CHAIRMAN. So he is following in your footsteps. 

Dr. FRANK. Yes. Correct. Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. So, thank you very, very much. 

STATEMENT OF DR. RICHARD G. FRANK, NOMINATED TO BE 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR PLANNING AND EVALUATION, 

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, WASHINGTON, DC 

Dr. FRANK. Chairman Baucus, Ranking Member Hatch, members 

of the committee, thank you for inviting me here today. I am honored to have been nominated by the President to serve as the Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation at the Department 

of Health and Human Services. 

I am currently a professor of health economics at Harvard University Medical School. I have spent my entire career engaged in 

teaching, research, and service related to the economic aspects of 

health policy. This has included prior service in the Federal Government, most recently between 2009 and 2011 as Deputy Assistant Secretary at HHS. 

I viewed public service as an important part of my career before 

I even had a career. I see the possibility of serving at ASPE as an 

enormous opportunity to make a difference and to contribute to the 

larger American society. 

My parents were both immigrants who came to the United States 

during the Second World War. My father came to the country in 

1939 from Switzerland and was drafted and served in the Army in 

7 

the European theater, where he was badly wounded. He went to 

college on the GI bill and had a successful career as an engineer. 

My mother, who was originally French, survived the Auschwitz 

concentration camp and came to the U.S. to stay with her aunt, as 

her parents, aunts, and uncles who were in Europe were all 

exterminated. 

She has lived a rewarding and productive life, raising two children and helping acclimate foreign students to the U.S. Both my 

parents were deeply grateful to this country for offering them safety and opportunity. They regularly reminded me how fortunate I 

was to have been born here and how we were obliged to try to give 

back if we could. 

They encouraged me to join the Peace Corps, and my time in the 

Republic of Botswana was my first exposure to national service. 

Serving at ASPE would offer me the possibility to apply all my professional training and experience in economics and health policy to 

support policy-making for Health and Human Services at a time of 

monumental change that presents an enormous set of challenges to 

us. 

The ASPE serves as the Secretary’s principal policy advisor responsible for policy coordination, strategic planning, policy research 

evaluation, and economic analysis. More than ever, key decisionmakers in the administration, Congress, and the States are going 

to need first-rate information and analysis to support their choices. 

I believe my training in health economics and experience in conducting research related to markets and programs for Health and 

Human Services have prepared me to lead the talented team of 

professionals at ASPE to support the HHS leadership. 

My academic and technical preparation, I believe, are augmented 

by my service in State and Federal Government, including my time 

at HHS, membership on a State regulatory commission, membership on a congressional commission, and service as a consultant to 

a number of State government agencies across the country. I believe this background positions me to lead a team that will provide 

the administration and the Congress with technically rigorous, balanced, and policy-relevant analyses. 

HHS touches on a vast array of populations, programs, and markets, ranging from the pharmaceutical industry, to early childhood 

programs, to programs and regulations aimed at the provision and 

financing of mental health and substance abuse disorders, to our 

public health financing programs, Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP. 

This requires great breadth of talent. ASPE is staffed by a skilled 

group of professionals who cover the range of expertise needed to 

understand, analyze, and evaluate HHS activities. I am deeply 

committed to supporting the excellence that exists at ASPE and to 

bolstering it so that ASPE can effectively respond to new demands 

driven by scientific progress, changing financial circumstances, and 

shifting demographics. 

I thank you for your consideration of my nomination and would 

welcome the opportunity to work with you all. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Frank appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Dr. Frank. 

8 

I neglected to ask your wife to be recognized. Would you please 

stand up and be recognized so we can thank you for your service 

as well? [Applause.] 

I have some obligatory questions we ask of all nominees. I will 

ask those first, and then I will just ask both of you, and you can 

each indicate your response. 

Is there anything that you are aware of in your background that 

might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to 

which you have been nominated? 

Dr. DYNAN. No. 

Dr. FRANK. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Do you know of any reason, personal 

or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and 

honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you 

have been nominated? 

Dr. DYNAN. No. 

Dr. FRANK. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Do you agree, without reservation, to 

respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before 

any duly constituted committee of Congress, if confirmed? 

Dr. DYNAN. Yes. 

Dr. FRANK. Yes. 

The CHAIRMAN. Do you commit to provide a prompt response in 

writing to any questions addressed to you by any Senator of this 

committee? 

Dr. DYNAN. Yes. 

Dr. FRANK. Yes. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

I will start with you, Dr. Dynan. What is the utility, the use, of 

this concept of big data in your work, and maybe over at Treasury? 

Where could that be applied that might have some positive, practical effect? 

Dr. DYNAN. Well, I think the development of data sets that offer 

a great deal of comprehensive information at what we would call 

the microeconomic level—so, at the level of the household, or the 

borrower, or the firm—has really opened up a lot of opportunities 

for economists who, prior to the era of big data, were very constrained in being able to identify or isolate the influence of particular policy when they just had these macroeconomic time series 

to look at. 

Being able to dig down and actually kind of look at households 

and their actual economic environment and then how they behave 

in response to a policy just allows us to have much more insight 

into what the effects of what that policy will be on the economy. 

The CHAIRMAN. Do you at all delve into social networking, either 

in learning what people’s habits, responses, and reactions are to 

events that would help formulate policy? I really do not know what 

the question is I am asking. [Laughter.] But it has to do with the 

phenomenon of social networking and asking whether any economist’s analysis these days moves out of the traditional realm of economic work into tapping into this new development called social 

networking. 

Dr. DYNAN. You are raising a very important issue and something that is potentially quite promising. I cannot say I myself 

9 

have made a lot of use of the data that can be gathered through 

social networking or through the Internet, but I do know that there 

are some very interesting things that people are exploring. 

So one of the challenges that policymakers have faced as the 

economy is at a turning point is detecting that that is actually happening, because these macroeconomic time periods that we traditionally rely upon, they come out with a lag, and it is just a few 

data points. They do not really give us a lot of insight into what 

is going on. 

But I have seen very interesting work that people have done 

using, for example, data about Google searches to try to detect 

whether suddenly there is a great interest in, for example, foreclosure prevention measures that might tell you that the housing 

market is turning in some particular market. So I think these 

things really hold a lot of promise. 

As yet I have not done a lot of work myself with these data, but 

it is certainly something that, if confirmed, I would like my team 

to be looking into. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, maybe you both could answer the next 

question. I have found it frustrating, to just put it mildly, that we 

get estimates and surveys and so on and so forth based on the most 

recent available data, which often is years old. It is very, very frustrating, because our world is changing so quickly. Give us your 

thoughts on how in the world we can get more current data. That 

is a general question obviously, but let us take your areas. Could 

this committee do anything, or why is this data so dated? 

Dr. DYNAN. I share your frustration. In my own research, I have 

made a lot of use of household survey data sets, and most of the 

traditional sources in that area come out with a lag that can be a 

year, but it could be 2 years or 3 years. So that is hardly going to 

be useful when you are trying to look at—— 

The CHAIRMAN. So what can be done about that? 

Dr. DYNAN. So I think the creators of those data sets, they face 

a trade-off. When you first collect the data, it can be noisy and full 

of errors, and what they are trying to do is spend some time kind 

of cleaning up the inconsistencies so that the data sets actually do 

offer enough signal such that they can extract information from 

them. I think one policy implication is just that it is important to 

provide the entities that are creating—— 

The CHAIRMAN. My time is expiring. 

Dr. DYNAN [continuing]. With enough of—— 

The CHAIRMAN. With the indulgence of the committee, I would 

just give Dr. Frank maybe a minute on my basic question. 

Dr. FRANK. Yes. I think there are some new technologies that are 

available, and if both the administration and the Congress decided 

to invest in them, I think we could speed things up. For example, 

there are companies that pay households to put computers in their 

house. 

They get basic information so then they can mount a computerbased survey on this sample of people very, very quickly and get 

the information back, because they only collect the things that they 

really need at that moment, since they already have the basic demographics and things on the people. 

10 

They can bring that in, and they continuously refine their sample 

so that it looks like, for example, our current population survey. I 

think that has enabled us to really speed up the data turnaround, 

so I think this is a real opportunity for, I guess both of us, if we 

are confirmed, and for the Congress, to make some investments in 

new data. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Thank you very much. 

Senator Hatch? 

Senator HATCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

First of all, for everybody in this room and everybody watching, 

I believe this is the last hearing that our distinguished chairman 

is going to conduct in this committee, because he has been called 

to be the Ambassador to China, and he is going to embark on a 

wholly new program in his life and his wife’s life and family’s life 

that I think is going to be of extreme interest to him and to all of 

us. 

So I want to just say what a privilege it has been to work with 

Max Baucus over this past while that I have been on this committee. I do not know a more honest, decent man than Max, and 

I do not know of anybody in the Democratic Party who does a better job of trying to stand up for his country. We on this side have 

really appreciated the fair-handed leadership that you have provided for all of us, and we are going to miss you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you. 

Senator HATCH. I personally will miss you, and I think our members on both sides will miss you as well. So I just wanted to make 

that comment. 

Look, I am not going to ask any questions. I know both of you. 

I have read your resumes. You both have distinguished service careers. You both deserve support, and both of us will do everything 

in our power to see that these nominations are confirmed as soon 

as possible. So with that, I will just not ask questions. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, thank you for your very warm comments, 

Senator. I deeply appreciate it. 

Senator Isakson? 

Senator ISAKSON. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to associate myself with Senator Hatch’s remarks about your service and 

my appreciation for what you have done for me, as chairman of the 

Finance Committee and personally. 

In fact, Dr. Dynan is here today, whom I met with this morning. 

She is a prolific writer on housing policy and housing finance, and 

I can tell the committee from the experience I have had for years 

in housing, we are very fortunate to have somebody of her qualifications going to advise the Secretary of Treasury on housing policy. 

I think her knowledge of underwriting and leverage, and her 

knowledge of Federal policy and what we can do, is outstanding. 

However, as I was going through her application that she answered 

or her resume, I stumbled upon something that would be interesting, I think, to you, and I know it is interesting to me. In June 

of 2013, she published a piece, along with Ted Gayer and Natasha 

Plotkin, entitled The Recent Homebuyer Tax Credit: Evaluation and 

Lessons for the Future. 

11 

Since I wrote that bill and you made it possible by helping me 

find the pay-fors, I would love to hear what the lessons learned 

were in terms of the Housing Tax Credit. 

Dr. DYNAN. Thank you, Senator Isakson. I enjoyed our conversation as well. Yes, that was a piece of research that we did that 

tried to isolate the effects on the housing market of the Homebuyer 

Tax Credit that was put in place during the housing crisis. The 

overall conclusion of the study was that it was one of a set of measures that did successfully arrest the freefall of the housing market 

in early 2009. As I am sure you deeply appreciated, that was a 

scary time. 

After that credit was put in place, along with a variety of other 

measures that Congress and the Federal Reserve put in place, we 

did see a stabilization of the housing market. The credit seemed to 

have its intended effects. It increased housing demand. It did so 

modestly, but that would be a result of the modest amount of 

money that was put towards it. My co-author and I concluded that 

it was a useful tool that the policymakers used at the time. 

Senator ISAKSON. Well, thank you for that answer. I think the 

chairman would agree with me: we both hope we will never have 

to do something like that again and to react to such a terrible crisis. But I appreciate your focus and intellect and your commitment 

to housing and housing policy, and you will be a great Assistant 

Secretary. 

Dr. Frank, I did not have the time to talk to you, and I apologize 

for that, but I agree with Ranking Member Hatch that your qualifications are outstanding. There is only one little suggestion I will 

give you: do not forget the CDC in Atlanta when you are working 

on health policy and its effects on economics, because they stop 

most of the major things that could wipe us out on a daily basis. 

But good luck to you, and I appreciate you both for your service. 

Dr. FRANK. Thank you very much, Senator. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator Cardin? 

Senator CARDIN. Well, Mr. Chairman, if this if your last hearing 

that you will be chairing, it is certainly one of harmony. We do not 

always have hearings that are this—Senator Hatch, I know you are 

always respectful, but sometimes there is a little bit more disagreement than we have here today. 

So I just want to concur in Senator Hatch’s comments, though, 

about our chairman. It has been a real pleasure to work with Senator Baucus, first when I was in the House of Representatives and 

we worked on issues, but now to be a member of this committee. 

Senator Baucus is going to take on a new challenge of being our 

Ambassador to China. It is going to be a challenging commitment, 

and we look forward to continuing to work with you, but in a different capacity. We will certainly miss your incredible leadership 

on this committee in bringing Democrats and Republicans together 

as we should, and having the type of discussion—and hopefully action—that the American people expect from us. So thank you very 

much for your leadership, and we will miss you. 

I just really wanted to comment that both of our nominees have 

Maryland ties here, which we are very proud of. Of course, Dr. 

Dynan is a Maryland resident, and we are very proud of your pubVerDate Mar 15 2010 20:10 Sep 10, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\89639.000 TIMD
12 

lic service and wish you well and thank you and your family, because this is a family event. Dr. Frank held a position at Johns 

Hopkins University, a long-tenured position there, and is wellknown for his leadership in mental health. We thank you very 

much for that. 

Senator Hatch, Dr. Frank also was affiliated with the University 

of Pittsburgh. Senator Hatch and I both graduated from the University of Pittsburgh, so we always make that connection when we 

can. So I strongly thank both of you and your families for your willingness to serve in public life. 

I will just make one or two other comments. Dr. Frank, we critically need your help on mental health issues. It is an area that you 

bring great expertise to, and we look forward to working with you 

as we figure out how we can really live up to our commitment of 

providing full coverage to all people and to eliminating discrimination against mental health services in America. 

Dr. Dynan, President Obama spoke last night, or two nights ago, 

about retirement. Senator Portman and I, Senator Hatch and others, and Senator Baucus have all been interested in the retirement 

issues, so we look forward to working with you to figure out how 

we really can fill the gap in retirement savings. 

To both of you, again, thank you for your willingness to serve. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

My main point to all of you is, just thank you so much for your 

dedication to what you are about to do. We know Doug quite well. 

We very much appreciate Doug, and that is an understatement. We 

admire Doug and all that he does, the hard work that he performs 

and undertakes. It is an almost-impossible job that he has done, 

serving 535 different bosses, but he does an excellent job doing it. 

I have called your husband many times and said, ‘‘Doug, we need 

to do this; Doug, we need to do that,’’ and he will say, ‘‘Yes, Senator, yes, Senator.’’ 

But of course, he receives many other calls as well with the same 

requests, but he has handled it very professionally, very solidly 

over the years, and I just have the highest regard for him. In listening to you and the answers to the questions I asked, I get the 

same sense that you have the same high level of professionalism, 

intelligence, and dedication to service, and I just thank you for 

what you are doing. 

The question I was going to ask, which I will refrain from asking, 

is, just with all the academic work, which portions of your work 

have had the most direct, practical, positive effect on public policy? 

Often academics are academic, but we also have to get practical. 

I will not ask that question, but I would just urge you to obviously 

find practical results. 

Dr. Frank, the same. I know you are in an area that is so, so, 

so needed: mental health and long-term care and disability. We do 

talk a lot about helping to achieve parity between mental health 

and physical health, and we mean it when we say it. It is really, 

really important. It is difficult, but it is extremely important. 

Thank you both very, very much. I will always remember the two 

of you, since this is probably the last hearing I will chair. You will 

be very high in my thoughts over the years, because it happens to 

13 

be the last hearing, but also because of your competence and your 

professionalism. Thank you very much. I wish you very, very well. 

Thank you. The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 10:40 a.m., the hearing was concluded.] 

(15) 

A P P E N D I X 

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