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89–640—PDF 2014

S. HRG. 113–381 

NOMINATIONS OF R. GIL KERLIKOWSKE, L. PAIGE 

MARVEL, AND TAMARA WENDA ASHFORD 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

ON THE

NOMINATIONS OF 

R. GIL KERLIKOWSKE, TO BE COMMISSIONER, CUSTOMS AND BORDER 

PROTECTION, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY; L. PAIGE 

MARVEL, TO BE A JUDGE OF THE UNITED STATES TAX COURT; AND 

TAMARA WENDA ASHFORD, TO BE A JUDGE OF THE UNITED STATES 

TAX COURT 

JANUARY 15, 2014 

( 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Finance 

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

MAX BAUCUS, Montana, Chairman 

JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia 

RON WYDEN, Oregon 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan 

MARIA CANTWELL, Washington 

BILL NELSON, Florida 

ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio 

MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado 

ROBERT P. CASEY, Jr., Pennsylvania 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

CHUCK GRASSLEY, Iowa 

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho 

PAT ROBERTS, Kansas 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

JOHN THUNE, South Dakota 

RICHARD BURR, North Carolina 

JOHNNY ISAKSON, Georgia 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

PATRICK J. TOOMEY, Pennsylvania 

AMBER COTTLE, Staff Director 

CHRIS CAMPBELL, Republican Staff Director 

(II) 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Baucus, Hon. Max, a U.S. Senator from Montana, chairman, Committee 

on Finance ............................................................................................................ 1 

Hatch, Hon. Orrin G., a U.S. Senator from Utah ................................................. 3 

Cantwell, Hon. Maria, a U.S. Senator from Washington ..................................... 5 

Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L., a U.S. Senator from Maryland ................................. 7 

CONGRESSIONAL WITNESS 

Murray, Hon. Patty, a U.S. Senator from Washington ........................................ 6 

ADMINISTRATION NOMINEES 

Kerlikowske, R. Gil, nominated to be Commissioner, Customs and Border 

Protection, Department of Homeland Security, Washington, DC .................... 8 

Marvel, Hon. L. Paige, nominated to be a judge of the United States Tax 

Court, Washington, DC ........................................................................................ 10 

Ashford, Tamara Wenda, nominated to be a judge of the United States 

Tax Court, Washington, DC ................................................................................ 12 

ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL 

Ashford, Tamara Wenda: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 12 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 33 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 35 

Response to a question from Senator Hatch .................................................. 47 

Baucus, Hon. Max: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 1 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 48 

Cantwell, Hon. Maria: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 5 

Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L.: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 7 

Hatch, Hon. Orrin G.: 

Opening statement ........................................................................................... 3 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 50 

Kerlikowske, R. Gil: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 52 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 56 

Responses to questions from committee members ......................................... 69 

Marvel, Hon. L. Paige: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 10 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 106 

Biographical information ................................................................................. 108 

Response to a question from Senator Hatch .................................................. 121 

Murray, Hon. Patty: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 6 

COMMUNICATION

United States Council for International Business (USCIB) ................................. 123 

(1) 

NOMINATIONS OF R. GIL KERLIKOWSKE, 

TO BE COMMISSIONER, CUSTOMS AND 

BORDER PROTECTION, DEPARTMENT 

OF HOMELAND SECURITY; 

L. PAIGE MARVEL, TO BE A JUDGE OF THE 

UNITED STATES TAX COURT; AND 

TAMARA WENDA ASHFORD, TO BE A JUDGE 

OF THE UNITED STATES TAX COURT 

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 15, 2014 

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON FINANCE, Washington, DC. 

The hearing was convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:12 a.m., in 

room SD–215, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Max Baucus 

(chairman of the committee) presiding. 

Present: Senators Schumer, Cantwell, Nelson, Menendez, Carper, 

Cardin, Casey, Hatch, Grassley, Crapo, Thune, and Burr. 

Also present: Democratic Staff: Amber Cottle, Staff Director; 

Laurie Dempsey, Detailee; Jason Park, International Trade Counsel; Rory Murphy, International Trade Analyst; Mac Campbell, 

General Counsel; Tiffany Smith, Tax Counsel; and Andy Heiman, 

Tax Policy and Nominations Advisor. Republican Staff: Chris 

Campbell, Staff Director; Rebecca Eubank, International Trade Analyst; Richard Chovanec, Detailee; Everett Eissensat, Chief International Trade Counsel; Nicholas Wyatt, Tax and Nominations Professional Staff Member; and Alex Brant, Detailee. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MAX BAUCUS, A U.S. SENATOR 

FROM MONTANA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 

The CHAIRMAN. The hearing will come to order. 

Senator Henry Clay, who was the chairman of this committee in 

1841, once said this, and I quote him: ‘‘Government is a trust, and 

the officers of the government are trustees—and both the trust and 

the trustees are created for the benefits of the people.’’ 

The three individuals here today are dedicated public servants, 

trustees working hard for the benefit of the people. They are experts in their fields, and, if confirmed, they will bring an impressive array of diversity and experience to the job at hand. 

Gil Kerlikowske has been nominated to serve as Commissioner 

of the United States Customs and Border Protection, often referred 

to as CBP. This agency enforces the country’s trade and border security laws. If confirmed, Mr. Kerlikowske will be entrusted with 

2 

developing policy that has broad effects on America’s economy and 

safety, a charge he is highly qualified to execute. 

Mr. Kerlikowske has spent his career in public policy and law enforcement, most recently, as Director of the Office of National Drug 

Control Policy. Before that, he served as Chief of Police in Seattle. 

His decades of experience will help ensure our Nation’s borders are 

secure, flexible, and utilizing the latest technologies. 

This committee has jurisdiction over international trade, and 

CBP plays a crucial role in maintaining the flow of trade across our 

borders. CBP processes nearly $2.5 trillion worth of goods every 

year, and it must ensure this process is thorough and efficient. 

CBP’s director must consult regularly with Congress, Federal agencies, and the many businesses that rely on trade. This committee 

takes CBP’s mandate to consult with Congress very seriously. 

Senator Hatch and I introduced a Customs reauthorization bill 

last year. The bill is intended to help CBP prioritize its trade facilitation and enforcement functions, and it provides additional tools 

and resources to help the Commissioner do so. If Mr. Kerlikowske 

is confirmed, close communication with this committee will be important. 

Also with us today are Tamara Ashford and Paige Marvel. Both 

are nominated to serve as judges on the United States Tax Court. 

Judge Marvel, in fact, has been nominated to serve for a second 

term. 

The Tax Court gives Americans a venue and a voice to address 

legitimate tax concerns. It helps guarantee fair administration of 

our tax laws and hears 30,000 cases each year. It is a cornerstone 

of America’s tax system. 

Judges must be willing to put in long hours and endure a busy 

travel schedule. They hear cases in 74 cities across our country, 

and they spend weeks at a time away from their homes and families. The job is difficult, but Ms. Ashford and Judge Marvel are the 

right people to take it on. 

Prior to joining the Court, Judge Marvel had a distinguished career in the private sector, and she has proven herself on the Tax 

Court and deserves support for her second term. 

Ms. Ashford currently serves as the Deputy Assistant Attorney 

General for Appellate and Review in the Tax Division at the U.S. 

Department of Justice. She has a sterling track record of public 

service that she will carry with her to the Tax Court, including at 

the IRS and the Department of Justice. And like Judge Marvel, she 

has valuable experience in the private sector. 

With their confirmations, the Tax Court will have a full complement of 19 judges for the first time since 1999. So, as we consider these nominations, let us remember Henry Clay’s words that 

‘‘Government is a trust, and the officers of the government are 

trustees working for the benefit of the people.’’ 

I thank all three nominees for joining us here today, and I hope 

the committee can act on their nominations quickly. 

During today’s hearing, we will also pause to vote on two nominations: Sarah Bloom Raskin, nominated to be the Deputy Secretary of the Treasury; as well as Rhonda Schmidtlein, nominated 

to be a Commissioner at the International Trade Commission. 

3 

When we get a quorum, we are going to take a short break so we 

can vote on those nominees. 

[The prepared statement of Chairman Baucus appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Hatch? 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ORRIN G. HATCH, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH 

Senator HATCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding today’s hearing. 

Trade is essential to the growth of the U.S. economy, and U.S. 

Customs and Border Protection, CBP, is at the center of ensuring 

that legitimate trade flows smoothly and efficiently. This task goes 

all the way back to 1789, when the first Congress created the first 

agency of the Federal Government with the responsibility of collecting import duties. This first U.S. Customs agency would go on 

to come under the direct authority of the Secretary of the Treasury. 

Following passage of the Homeland Security Act of 2002, CBP 

was created and is the unified border agency with the dual missions of facilitating trade and securing our borders against terrorism. These missions are performed by a workforce of almost 

60,000 dedicated Federal employees. And with these important 

missions, it is vital that CBP has the proper leadership in place. 

That starts with the head of the agency. 

Unfortunately, CBP has been without a Senate-confirmed commissioner since 2009. Last year, I called upon President Obama to 

nominate a commissioner and to appoint someone with a strong 

background in trade. 

Mr. Kerlikowske, your background is in law enforcement and not 

in trade. However, from our conversations, I am confident that if 

you are confirmed, and I expect you to be, your lack of a trade 

background will not prevent you from making sure that the trade 

functions of CBP receive the same priority as the security functions. 

Now, I think you recognize that trade is essential to the growth 

of our economy and that a strong economy is essential to our Nation’s security. In addition to trade, intellectual property is also an 

important part of the U.S. economy. Therefore, I will continue to 

support CBP’s efforts to ensure that strong enforcement of our Nation’s intellectual property laws remains a high priority for the 

agency. 

In March of last year, Senator Baucus and I introduced the 

Trade Facilitation and Trade Enforcement Reauthorization Act of 

2013. If enacted, our bill would help to modernize CBP by making 

sure that it has the authority and tools necessary to carry out its 

trade facilitation mission. 

We have received good feedback on the bill, and I hope the Finance Committee will be able to consider our legislation very soon. 

Mr. Kerlikowske, if confirmed, I hope that you will work closely 

with this committee to ensure that CBP fulfills its proper role in 

facilitating and promoting trade. 

Now, having said that, the United States Tax Court does not go 

quite as far back in our history as the first U.S. Customs agency, 

but it is a very, very important part of our tax system. It is the 

4 

only venue for taxpayers who want to challenge an assessed tax liability before payment. 

Unlike many Federal Government entities, the Tax Court goes 

wherever the taxpayers are, with judges hearing cases in many cities throughout the country. Tax Court judges deal with the individual taxpayers face-to-face and actually speak to and hear from 

them in person. Very few nominees that we consider in this committee will have that kind of interaction. Keeping the Court staffed 

with qualified judges helps provide faster and better accountability 

to taxpayers. If both of the nominees we will hear from today are 

confirmed, the Tax Court will have a full complement of 19 judges. 

Judge Marvel, having already completed one term on the Tax 

Court, has fortunately agreed to serve a second term. The Finance 

Committee has consistently encouraged the reappointment of Tax 

Court judges in order to preserve expertise and continuity in what 

is a very complicated area of policy. This is not to say that new 

judges are not important or welcome, of course, but experience is 

valuable. 

Tamara Ashford already has extensive experience in the tax 

arena, having worked a great deal in private practice for the Internal Revenue Service and now for the Tax Division at the Justice 

Department. As she noted in a speech that she gave last year, she 

has seen tax practice from both sides of the table. I think that is 

important too. 

Indeed, I think we have before us two very qualified Tax Court 

nominees, and I expect both of you to be confirmed quickly. 

Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you once again for holding this 

hearing, and I look forward to hearing from all of our nominees 

here today. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator, very much. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Hatch appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Our first witness, Gil Kerlikowske, is nominated 

to be Commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection. 

Mr. Kerlikowske, here is an opportunity now to introduce your 

family. Then Senator Cantwell and Senator Murray will also introduce you. 

First, I am going to let Mr. Kerlikowske introduce his family, 

and then Senator Murray and Senator Cantwell will speak. 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

My daughter Kim is here. She lives in Colorado with her husband and my grandchildren. She is a teacher. Unfortunately, my 

wife, Anna, could not be here, having been teaching in Florida this 

week rather than here in Washington, DC. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. 

Would you please stand so we can recognize you? [Applause.] 

Mr. Kerlikowske, you confirm one of my theories, which is, if you 

show me an achiever, I will show you there is a teacher in the family. 

Senator Cantwell? 

Senator CANTWELL. Well, I see my colleague, Senator Murray, is 

at the dais. Did you want to go ahead? 

Senator MURRAY. I can wait for you. You go ahead. 

5 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON 

Senator CANTWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 

Member Hatch. I am very pleased to introduce to the Finance Committee Director Kerlikowske, and I urge my colleagues to confirm 

him for this position as quickly as possible. 

Many of you know or may know Mr. Kerlikowske, because he got 

91 votes in the United States Senate for his current role as Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy. 

I have known him for more than a decade, and, throughout those 

years in law enforcement, he has a demonstrated and impressive 

record of exceptional management and leadership skills. 

As Gil was the Chief of the Seattle Police Department for over 

8 years, he was a leader in a community that worked collaboratively with local, State, and Federal agencies and organizations. 

Many of you may know that Seattle is home to one of the largest 

ports and gateways for international trade. In fact, 70 percent of 

Seattle’s container cargo comes or goes to the region of the country 

outside the Pacific Northwest. So Washington State exports were 

valued at $75.6 billion in 2012. So needless to say, Customs, border, and security issues are a very important part of our economy, 

and anyone who has worked in that region knows how important 

that coordination is. 

It has been good news that our trade deficit has been narrowing 

in recent months, but an important ability necessary to continue to 

be competitive in that area will be the international marketplace 

and Customs and Border Protection working to ease commercial 

trade processing systems so that U.S. companies can maintain an 

efficient supply chain and operate fast and secure trade flows. 

In conducting this mission, CBP faces many challenges: promoting a fast and effective cargo clearance process, something my 

colleague, Senator Murray, has been very involved in; reducing the 

importation of counterfeit goods; and coordination of information 

and Federal agency guidelines. 

Gil has a very solid track record in interagency coordination and 

implementing new initiatives, and I think continuing to step up to 

the challenges is going to mean new processes. In 2009, he became 

the Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, and he 

advised the President on this. And, again, Federal agencies needed 

the cooperation with local initiatives to make that work. And so all 

of this is going to be incredibly important. 

And lastly, Mr. Chairman, he has worked to advance very costeffective programs in improving enforcement efforts, and, again, I 

think that is always going to be the bottom line at Customs and 

Border Protection. We have to improve it. It has to be fast and efficient, but we always have to do it in a cost-effective way too, and 

these will be new initiatives. 

So I very much look forward to his nomination moving through 

the Senate and for the work that he is going to do continually for 

our Nation. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator Murray, we are honored to have the senior Senator from 

Washington here. 

Thank you very much, Senator. 

6 

STATEMENT OF HON. PATTY MURRAY, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON 

Senator MURRAY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank 

you to Ranking Member Hatch and to all the members of the committee. I am very honored to be here with my colleague, Senator 

Cantwell, to introduce Gil Kerlikowske to the members of this committee. 

I want to welcome Director Kerlikowske and congratulate him on 

the honor of being nominated as the next Commissioner of Customs 

and Border Protection at the Department of Homeland Security. I 

also want to thank Director Kerlikowske and all of his family for 

accepting this responsibility at this important time in our Nation’s 

history. 

Mr. Chairman, we know the next Commissioner of Customs and 

Border Protection will face a number of key challenges. He will be 

faced with the difficult task of balancing the need to secure our Nation’s borders and ports of entry with the need to respect and preserve the civil liberties enjoyed by American citizens and the free 

flow of commerce that is so essential to our State and national 

economies. 

Mr. Chairman, let me assure you that Gil Kerlikowske is the 

right man to address these challenges. He brings 37 years of law 

enforcement experience, including 9 years as Chief of Police for Seattle. With his recent experience as Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, he worked to bridge the gap between 

local and Federal law enforcement officials. 

As he has shown time and again, Director Kerlikowske will bring 

a fresh, new, and hands-on perspective to Customs and Border Protection. As a former police chief, Director Kerlikowske understands 

the importance of partnerships between Federal, State, and local 

law enforcement, and he understands how to use evidence-based 

strategies to make communities safer by reducing crime, while improving the morale and performance of a large agency. 

Mr. Chairman, I have seen his work firsthand as Seattle Police 

Chief. Under his leadership, not only did crime in Seattle reach an 

all-time low, but the Seattle Police Department, with county, State, 

and Federal law enforcement agencies, worked to bust a drug ring 

that stretched from Mexico to Canada, running right through Seattle and eastern Washington. 

These multiagency Federal/local partnerships require cooperation and compromise, and they require a leader who can bring people with competing interests together; in other words, someone 

with Director Kerlikowske’s proven experience. 

When Director Kerlikowske left Seattle to take on his current 

role as Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, local 

police chiefs and sheriffs told me they were sorry to see him go but 

that the Nation was gaining a true innovator in Gil Kerlikowske. 

I could not agree more. 

Director Kerlikowske has served the people of Washington State 

and the people of our Nation well, and I know that he will continue 

to do so in his new role. I am very proud to be here at the committee today to support his confirmation. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

7 

Before you speak, Mr. Kerlikowske, I would now like to introduce 

our other nominees. 

I have already introduced Judge Marvel. 

Judge Marvel, do you have family here you would like to introduce? 

Judge MARVEL. I do, Mr. Chairman. My husband, Robert Dyer, 

Jr., is here. My two children, unfortunately, could not be here, but 

I will tell the committee a little bit about them in my opening remarks. 

The CHAIRMAN. Would your husband please stand so we can recognize him? [Applause.] 

And, Ms. Ashford, do you have family here? 

Ms. ASHFORD. I do, indeed, Chairman Baucus. 

I am very pleased to introduce my parents, Ronald and Wenda 

Ashford, from the great city of Boston, as well as my aunt from the 

great city of Baltimore, MD. [Applause.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Cardin, are you going to introduce Ms. 

Ashford? 

Senator CARDIN. Yes, if I might, Mr. Chairman. Actually, I am 

going to introduce Judge Marvel, but I will be glad to also introduce Ms. Ashford, because you have a good family. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM MARYLAND 

Senator CARDIN. Let me thank all three of our nominees for their 

continuation of public service. It is a sacrifice, we know that, and 

it is a family sacrifice. So I thank Senator Baucus for always acknowledging the family, because we know that it is a real commitment, and we thank you for your service. 

Mr. Chairman, I have known Paige Marvel for many, many 

years. I have known her since the 1970s when she was a young attorney at the law firm of Garbis and Schwait, known for her tax 

expertise. Later, she was a valuable member of the Venable law 

firm. Venable is a Baltimore-based law firm, then known as 

Venable, Baetjer, and Howard. It has grown a little bit since those 

days, but Judge Marvel, at that time, was their expert on tax law. 

As a tax attorney, she had an unquestioned reputation for her 

expertise in tax law, but also for being a good person—a person 

easy to work with and a person of unquestioned integrity and unquestioned qualifications. 

She has been extremely active in the Bar Association. In the 

American Bar Association, she chaired the Court Procedures Committee, and I give her a lot of credit for taking on that aspect of 

law that many of us who are lawyers run away from. She is also 

active in the Maryland Bar Association. She was the chair of the 

Tax Section of the Maryland Bar Association. She has numerous 

community activities. If you look at the list, you will see that she 

has volunteered in so many areas in our community. 

Since April 1998, she has been a member of the Tax Court. Her 

reputation only continues to get stronger, and we really are very 

fortunate to have on the Tax Court a person of her expertise in tax 

law with her ability to work to make our system work. 

I strongly recommend her confirmation, and I thank her again 

for her willingness to continue to serve. 

8 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chief Judge of the Tax Court is here today, 

Judge Thornton, and so are Judge Colvin and Judge Gale. Could 

you all three please stand? We want to show our support for the 

Tax Court. Thank you very much for your service. [Applause.] 

It is interesting. Many Tax Court judges have a history with this 

committee, having worked for and served in various capacities on 

this committee, and we deeply appreciate that very much. 

Mr. Kerlikowske, we would love to hear from you. And your 

statement is automatically going to be included in the record. 

STATEMENT OF R. GIL KERLIKOWSKE, NOMINATED TO BE 

COMMISSIONER, CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, WASHINGTON, DC 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member 

Hatch, and distinguished members of the committee. It is a privilege to appear before you. 

Mr. Chairman, I have to take a moment, as you look to a new 

venture, to recognize your service to the people of Montana and to 

our Nation. 

And thank you for allowing me to introduce my daughter. 

Let me say, when I enlisted in the Army in 1970, I took an oath 

to protect the country, and I have upheld that duty for over 40 

years as a police officer, police chief in Buffalo and Seattle, and I 

was elected by my peers to be president of the Major City Chiefs 

Association. 

As Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, I have 

worked very hard to reduce the problem of drug abuse both domestically and internationally. And during my almost 5 years of leading ONDCP, I have made transparency, responsiveness, and communication with Congress hallmarks of my tenure. And, if confirmed, I will continue that leadership at CBP. 

I am honored that the President nominated me to lead the largest law enforcement agency in the United States and one whose 

mission is critical to the physical and economic security of our 

country. I have had the pleasure over these years to work handin-glove with our partner agencies, CBP included, and colleagues to 

author the Northern Border Strategy, which you are very familiar 

with, and the Southwest Border Counternarcotics Strategy. 

I represented the United States to over a dozen countries, meeting with heads of state and customs officials to engage in programs 

to decrease drug trafficking and build strong border communities 

and international partnerships. In addition, it is incumbent that 

CBP also interdict weapons and funds that are coming from the 

United States destined for transnational organized crime. 

The dual missions that Senator Hatch mentioned, which are to 

facilitate legitimate trade and travel and, also, secure the border, 

are missions that I believe are mutually reinforcing. Border security and preventing terrorists, weapons of mass destruction, and 

threats to agriculture from impacting our country, are the more 

well-known side of CBP. However, CBP’s vital Customs responsibilities include enforcing over 500 laws for 47 Federal agencies. We 

protect international property rights, processing more than $2.3 

trillion in international trade and collecting more than $40 billion 

annually in Customs duties. 

9 

And since my nomination, I have been honored to meet with 

many of you and your staffs and members of the Commercial Operations Advisory Committee, the trade associations, companies, all 

of which have a stake in CBP’s mission and future direction, and 

I assure you that this is the beginning of a collaboration that will, 

if I am confirmed, continue and deepen. 

My experience as a major city police chief has continually reinforced the understanding that protecting people and their livelihoods are interconnected. Commerce, the backbone of American 

jobs and trade, depends on a predictable and safe environment for 

business, and law enforcement is critical in creating that. And 

where a large police department must foster a safe and welcoming 

environment for business and visitors and maintain the public’s 

trust and confidence, well, CBP’s law enforcement role is the same. 

In listening to leaders of the trade community, I have heard consistently that CBP has made real progress to modernize, simplify, 

and make more uniform its trade and business process. If confirmed, I intend to build on that foundation to foster economic prosperity, economic security, and the border security objectives, continuing the outreach to stakeholders and Congress. 

If confirmed, I want to focus on four particular areas. First, CBP 

needs to continue to prioritize the completion of the Automated 

Commercial Environment (ACE). That is the electronic automated 

system for the efficient transmission of data to all U.S. Government agencies, and that will ensure efficient and timely entry and 

release of cargo. 

Second, CBP needs to modernize its export process to streamline 

exports and foster growth for U.S. companies, and this needs to be 

done in close collaboration with all of CBP’s partners, including industry. 

Third, CBP needs to focus its enforcement resources to protect 

U.S. companies from unfair competition; ensure that American 

technologies, intellectual properties, and goods are protected from 

threats; and protect domestic consumers from unsafe and counterfeit products. 

And fourth, CBP needs to build and retain a world-class, 

knowledge-based workforce, and the morale challenges within CBP 

really require sustained leadership attention. 

If I am confirmed, this too will be a major priority. 

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you, and I look 

forward to answering questions. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Kerlikowske. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Kerlikowske appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Actually, I have some obligatory questions I am 

going to ask all the nominees, and we will get to the others later. 

First, is there anything that you are aware of in your background 

that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office 

to which you have been nominated? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. Judge Marvel? 

Judge MARVEL. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Ashford? 

Ms. ASHFORD. No. 

10 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Do you know of any reason, personal or otherwise, that would in 

any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been nominated? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. No, sir. 

Judge MARVEL. No. 

Ms. ASHFORD. No. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Do you agree, without reservation, to respond to any reasonable 

summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the Congress, if you are confirmed? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. I do. 

Judge MARVEL. Yes, sir. 

Ms. ASHFORD. Yes. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Finally, do you commit to provide a prompt response in writing 

to any questions addressed to you by any Senator of this committee? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Yes. 

Judge MARVEL. Yes. 

Ms. ASHFORD. Yes. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Judge Marvel, why don’t you present your testimony? Then we 

will have Ms. Ashford give her testimony. 

STATEMENT OF HON. L. PAIGE MARVEL, NOMINATED TO BE A 

JUDGE OF THE UNITED STATES TAX COURT, WASHINGTON, DC 

Judge MARVEL. Thank you. Chairman Baucus, Ranking Member 

Hatch, and distinguished members of the Committee on Finance, 

thank you for the privilege of appearing before you today. 

I last appeared before this committee almost 16 years ago, after 

I was nominated for my first term as a Tax Court judge. I am 

grateful to President Obama for nominating me for a second term 

on the Court, and I am grateful to you and to the committee staff 

for the help given to me throughout this process. 

Senator Hatch, I am particularly grateful for your statement 

about my pending nomination during the confirmation hearing of 

my colleague, Chief Judge Michael Thornton. 

I would be remiss if I did not also acknowledge and thank Senator Ben Cardin and his staff for the help they gave me both before 

and after the President announced my nomination. I am a lifelong 

resident of the State of Maryland, and I have followed Senator 

Cardin’s political career from the time he was rising in the ranks 

of the Maryland State Legislature. He has been my Delegate, Representative, and Senator for decades. I have long admired his commitment to constituent service, and I have benefitted from it several times. Senator Cardin, thank you for your continuing excellent 

service to the State of Maryland and to this country. 

I would like to take this opportunity to also thank my family for 

the support they have given me during my career. My husband of 

almost 40 years, whom I introduced to the committee, Robert Dyer, 

has been my greatest supporter and friend since we first met in 

1971 at the University of Maryland School of Law. 

11 

We have two children. Our son, Alex Dyer, holds a B.S. degree 

in architecture from Washington University in St. Louis and intends to pursue a career as an architect. Our daughter, Kelly Dyer, 

holds a B.S. degree in neuroscience and behavioral biology from 

Emory University and is currently working in Atlanta as a research assistant on a public health project while she studies for the 

MCAT examination. 

There are two members of my family who are not here today 

whom I really need to acknowledge. My mother, Louise Harrison, 

is 92 years old and, due to health problems, can no longer travel. 

If she were here, she would tell you that she served this country 

honorably during World War II as a U.S. Army nurse anesthetist 

on a hospital ship in the Atlantic and in the Mediterranean. She 

would also tell you, whether you asked or not, that if you want to 

honor her service, you should confirm her daughter. [Laughter.] I 

had to say that, sorry. 

My sister, Vicki Marvel, is a school counselor in a middle school 

in Norman, OK. She looks after my mother, and she is also 

recuperating from a knee replacement surgery she had recently. 

I wish they could be here. They are not. I want to thank both 

of them for making me the person I am today. 

My professional family is also here, and I want to acknowledge 

them, if you would permit me to do so. Angela Frith is my chambers administrator, who is seated here behind me. My two law 

clerks are Chaim Gordon and Doug Longhofer. Together, they keep 

my chambers functioning at a very high level, and I am grateful 

for their hard work on my behalf, and I really want to take the opportunity to state publicly how much they do for me on a daily 

basis. 

I also want to thank my colleagues, Chief Judge Michael Thornton, Judge John Colvin, and Judge Joseph Gale, for supporting me 

and Tamara Ashford by attending this hearing today. 

Before I joined the Tax Court in 1998, I practiced tax and business law for 24 years and clerked for several years before that. I 

tried cases in the Tax Court and in other Federal and State courts 

throughout this country. That experience led me to appreciate both 

the benefits and burdens of the litigation process and the effect 

that it has on the people it touches. 

As a Tax Court judge for almost 16 years, I have taken my experience and applied it to the courtroom over which I preside. I make 

every reasonable effort to treat litigants fairly, to alleviate the fear 

that many litigants and witnesses have when they enter a courtroom, to assist litigants in understanding what they must prove, 

and to help them build the record I need to decide a case fairly. 

I am mindful that the Tax Court is the Federal court that handles the vast majority of Federal tax litigation in this country and 

that it has a very large population of pro se or self-represented taxpayers. 

Congress designed the Tax Court to be a litigation forum for all 

taxpayers, represented or not, and I will continue, if confirmed, to 

honor Congress’s intention by approaching cases with an open 

mind and a commitment to justice. 

Thank you again for considering my nomination. I would be 

happy to answer any questions that you might have. 

12 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Judge. 

[The prepared statement of Judge Marvel appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Ashford, you are next. 

STATEMENT OF TAMARA WENDA ASHFORD, NOMINATED TO 

BE A JUDGE OF THE UNITED STATES TAX COURT, WASHINGTON, DC 

Ms. ASHFORD. Good morning, Chairman Baucus, Ranking Member Hatch, and distinguished members of the Finance Committee. 

Thank you for the privilege of appearing before you today. 

I am grateful to President Obama for nominating me, and I am 

grateful to you and the committee’s outstanding staff for processing 

my nomination so promptly. 

Thank you again for allowing me to introduce my parents, Ronald and Wenda Ashford. My father is actually a retired high school 

teacher with the Quincy, MA public schools, having taught at the 

same school for over 35 years. 

The CHAIRMAN. More confirmation of my theory: show me an 

achiever, and there is a teacher in the family. 

Ms. ASHFORD. Correct. Similarly, my mother retired after a nearly 40-year career at the Massachusetts General Hospital. 

They have both instilled in me the passion for learning and a 

love for the law, as well as the values of working hard and being 

a good public servant, and I am thrilled that they could be here 

with me today. Their support has been invaluable, and I am grateful beyond what words can convey. 

I was also very pleased to introduce my aunt, joining us from 

Baltimore. My Aunt Bonnie is an inspiration to me because of the 

imprint she has made and the barriers she has broken in tennis— 

not only in North Carolina, where she and my mother, together 

with their brother, were raised, but in the larger tennis world. A 

professional tennis player, notably, Bonnie was the first black 

member of the Virginia Slims Tennis Circuit, which circuit eventually became the basis for the later-named WTA Tour. And she was 

among the first people of color to play in the South African Open 

Tennis Championships in Johannesburg, South Africa in 1972. I 

am grateful for her continuous support. 

Most of my nearly 20-year career as a lawyer has been spent directly involved in the area of tax controversies and litigation, and 

I have experience in handling these types of matters from all 

sides—the Department of Justice, private practice, and the Internal Revenue Service. 

In private practice, my focus was on Federal tax controversy and 

litigation matters, representing both corporate and individual taxpayers in the United States Tax Court, as well as other Federal 

trial and appellate courts. 

Early in my career, as a civil tax appellate attorney with the Department of Justice’s Tax Division, I briefed and presented oral argument in cases before the U.S. Courts of Appeal that were appealed from the Tax Court, as well as other Federal courts. 

For the past few years, as the Deputy Assistant Attorney General for Appellate and Review, I led the team responsible for determining the government’s unified strategy with respect to civil tax 

13 

appeals originating from the Tax Court and other Federal courts. 

I also worked to resolve civil tax cases through settlement or 

through concession. 

As an aside, I actually would like to take this opportunity to 

thank my boss, Assistant Attorney General Kathy Keneally, who is 

here today—thank you—for her leadership, her support, and her 

friendship. I owe a great deal of thanks to her for the fact that I 

sit here today as a nominee to the Tax Court. 

Through my experiences, which also include leadership positions 

held outside my professional work, I have come to understand what 

makes a good judge and have amassed the temperament and skills 

to be an independent arbiter as a Tax Court judge. If confirmed, 

I hope to continue to be guided by the principles and values instilled in me by my family and my past experiences, to work hard, 

and to serve our Nation’s tax system by resolving tax controversies 

fairly, impartially, and expeditiously. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to testify, Mr. Chairman. I 

am happy to answer any questions the committee may have. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ms. Ashford. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Ashford appears in the appendix.] 

The CHAIRMAN. What, in your experience, in your prior roles— 

private sector, public, and so forth—have you learned that is going 

to be most important, do you think, for your new job as a judge on 

the Tax Court? What have you learned that is probably going to 

be most important for you to focus on? 

Ms. ASHFORD. Thank you for your question, a very important 

question, Chairman Baucus. 

I think, for me, my wealth of professional legal experience has 

prepared me for the role as Tax Court judge. In particular, when 

I was in private practice, I had the ability to represent taxpayers 

before the Tax Court—corporate taxpayers as well as individual 

taxpayers. And in particular, with respect to individual taxpayers, 

I have had the personal experience that it can be daunting and 

confusing for, in particular, less-sophisticated taxpayers to resolve 

their disputes with the government, with the Internal Revenue 

Service. 

So I think my experience in representing both individual and corporate taxpayers will serve me well on the Tax Court, to serve as 

an independent arbiter to the Court. 

The CHAIRMAN. I just think it is an advantage you have: that is, 

outside experience like that. That is going to make a big difference, 

I think. I appreciate that experience. 

Ms. ASHFORD. Thank you, Senator. 

The CHAIRMAN. Judge Marvel, briefly, you have been working 

with the Tax Court for a while now. We are trying to reform the 

tax code. Very briefly, just give us one or two salient observations 

you have with respect to the U.S. tax code that you think the Congress should address. 

Judge MARVEL. I am not sure that I am really prepared to say 

what Congress should address, Senator, but I will say this, that 

having seen the tax system affecting real people and having those 

cases then come to the Court for us to resolve, it is readily apparent to me that the more that people can understand what the tax 

14 

law requires of them and what they need to do to comply with it, 

the better off the entire system will be, and the better off the Court 

will be. 

The vast majority of the litigants whom I have seen during my 

years on the Court have been people or companies or States that 

operate with regard to the tax law in good faith. They may make 

a mistake. The government may, in fact, be wrong. But the bottom 

line is, they come to the Court maybe a little confused, maybe they 

made a mistake. But they are certainly not deliberately trying to 

cheat the government. You have a few notable exceptions to that. 

But I do think that the more people can understand what they 

are obligated to do—— 

The CHAIRMAN. You are suggesting perhaps more simplification. 

Judge MARVEL. That is exactly what I am suggesting. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. 

Mr. Kerlikowske, what is the one major effort that you think 

must be undertaken to encourage greater trade facilitation, because trade is so important and becoming so much more important 

over the years to our job growth, et cetera? 

Is there something that kind of comes to mind, sort of number 

one, that we should focus on, you in your new job and Congress, 

to help facilitate trade, from your job’s perspective? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, I met with a number of trade associations and companies, from Boeing to COSCO, et cetera. They 

want predictability and consistency, and they would also like to see 

the interagency functions of the U.S. Government operate with that 

same level of consistency. 

That is why I am encouraged by the support for the automated 

system that would provide everyone in the U.S. Government exactly the information that they need to make those decisions, to get 

the cargo in, to make sure that it arrives safely, and to make sure 

that it is disbursed properly. And I think that I will devote a significant amount of time to making sure that that very expensive 

computer system is up and running and performs the way it should 

for commerce. 

The CHAIRMAN. And I suppose you will take some of your experience as the Seattle Police Chief, where you worked with different 

agencies, Federal and State, et cetera, to get people working together, moving in the same direction. 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Very much so. The fiscal environment is difficult and will continue to be difficult. The more that the different 

agencies can cooperate, and, particularly I think, the more the Federal Government can cooperate and work with State and local officials, the better. 

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I encourage you to be a leader. I know you 

are anyway. But take the reins, take over. Thank you. Thank you 

very much. 

Senator Hatch? 

Senator HATCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to compliment both of the nominees to the Tax Court for 

being willing to serve and for the expertise that you bring to it. 

In particular, I am really pleased to see your—is it your aunt 

here who played tennis? 

Ms. ASHFORD. Yes. 

15 

Senator HATCH. I remember going to South Africa at the height 

of Apartheid, and I really appreciate you being here today too, and 

the rest of the family—all of you. 

So you both are very competent, and we are going to support you 

as strongly as we possibly can, and we look forward to having you 

serve. These are important jobs, and I appreciate the humility that 

both of you display with really wanting to help people who really 

do not know where to go and what to do. So I want to congratulate 

both of you for your service and for your expertise, your background, and what you have been able to do with your lives. 

Mr. Kerlikowske, you do not get off quite as easy. But you are 

going to get off easy, because I think very highly of you. 

As I said in my opening statement, protecting the homeland is 

essential to our security, but trade is also very important to our 

economic security. So, if confirmed, and I believe you will be, as the 

next Commissioner of CBP, how will you ensure that trade functions receive high priority at CBP? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. There are two things that I would undertake. 

One is that I would continue with the meetings that I have had, 

but then in an official capacity, if confirmed, to make sure that the 

trade and also the travel community has an open door and clear 

lines of authority. 

I would also appoint two direct reports to me within CBP, one 

to serve as a liaison to the trade community and one to serve as 

a liaison to the travel community, so that those organizations 

would have a single point of contact that would be direct to me. I 

would also, of course, be open to all of those conversations with 

them. 

Senator HATCH. That is great. 

Intellectual property matters are an important part of our ability 

to both export and import innovative goods and services around the 

world. When we held a hearing to discuss the Trade Facilitation 

and Trade Enforcement Reauthorization Act of 2013, we heard 

from the general counsel at the National Electrical Manufacturers 

Association, Mr. Clark Silcox, about the importance of IP protection. Mr. Silcox stressed the importance of ensuring that counterfeit and unsafe products that could potentially harm U.S. consumers do not cross over our borders. 

So, while we need strong intellectual property rights enforcement 

abroad, we also need strong enforcement at our borders. Please let 

us know what you would do, if confirmed as the next Commissioner 

of CBP, to ensure that our intellectual property laws are properly 

enforced at our Nation’s borders. 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, that issue has been made very clear 

to me. I can tell you that I have been impressed with the interagency work group that has been put together to protect intellectual property, and I also recognize that the power of innovation 

and new products is critical here in the United States. 

I would continue to build upon that interagency cooperation. 

Also, the Centers of Excellence that have been developed—10 of 

them now for CBP—provide subject matter expertise in this area 

so that there is one set of learning programs, one set of information 

that can be communicated, whether it is the port in Seattle or the 

port in Baltimore, on what to do be alert for. 

16 

Also, I think we have to move faster. CBP will have to move faster to be able to get this information out. Waiting for days at a time 

is not going to work for me. 

Senator HATCH. Thank you. Let me just ask one more question. 

Several months ago, we held a hearing here to consider legislation reauthorizing Customs. At the hearing, David Cooper, the 

Global Customs Compliance Manager at Proctor and Gamble, discussed the damaging effects of counterfeit products and particularly the danger posed to consumers by counterfeit drugs. 

Now, Mr. Cooper described the ways P&G has collaborated with 

CBP to increase identification of counterfeit products at our borders. As the current drug czar, you know the importance of preventing unsafe drugs from entering the United States. So let us 

know what you would do, if confirmed, to make sure that unsafe 

drugs do not enter into the United States. 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, I think there needs to be better communication and better collaboration with the Food and Drug Administration. 

I have been really privileged to be able to work with Dr. Hamburg now as the Administrator of FDA for 41⁄2 years on the issue 

of opioids and prescription drug abuse issues and, also, precursor 

chemical issues that come into the United States. 

FDA, of course, has hold-and-release authority at these ports, but 

I think that, in my meetings with her and others, it will be critical 

that this level of knowledge and cooperation be expanded upon, 

particularly because at all of the ports at that 24/7 timeframe, 

there are CBP people present, but there are not always FDA people 

because of the staffing. 

So increasing the communication, education, et cetera, with CBP 

and FDA will be critical to that end. 

Senator HATCH. Mr. Chairman, I want to compliment Mr. 

Kerlikowske and our two nominees for the Court. You are really 

great people and you deserve our support, and we will do everything in our power to see that you get it as quickly as we can. I 

just want you to know that, all three of you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator Grassley? 

Senator GRASSLEY. Congratulations, all of you. 

I hope if I do not ask the judges any questions, you do not take 

it personally. I have a couple questions for Mr. K, if he would respond. 

You have some very good—I believe seven points that you want 

to focus on, if you are confirmed. They were in your opening statement. And I think they are fine, and I do not have any problems 

with them. 

None of them, though, dealt directly with border security, but 

rather, how to increase efficiencies and other things. 

Am I to assume from your priority list, which does not include 

much about overall border security, that you believe that we are 

already sufficient in that area? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. No, Senator. I was very cognizant of staying 

within my 5 minutes. But in my written testimony and in my discussion with various members of the staff, border security was particularly important. 

17 

Having authored the Southwest Border Counternarcotics Strategy, having made probably now close to a dozen trips to the southwest border to work with State and local officials and to see the 

operations going on there, I clearly understand and recognize the 

importance of border security. 

I think that there have been significant improvements in border 

security. I think more needs to be done, and through technology, 

through the use of the resources that Congress has funded, I would 

make sure that those are used in a consistent way to increase border security. 

Senator GRASSLEY. The second question deals with undocumented immigrants. I am concerned about the increased number of 

applicants who are filing for asylum or claiming credible fear at our 

ports of entry, especially at the southern border. We are now seeing 

36,000 credible fear applications in a single year, and that was only 

5,000 in the year 2008. 

I bring this up because Customs and Border Protection agents 

would be the first point of contact for these individuals. The Washington Times and the House Judiciary Committee have reported 

that drug cartels are using our asylum system to bypass immigration checkpoints. An internal Customs and Border Protection memo 

also details that. 

In one instance, a woman made a claim of asylum and, 3 months 

later, was apprehended by the border patrol checkpoint with more 

than $1 million worth of cocaine. If someone claims credible fear, 

they wait for their interview with an asylum officer. There is some 

discussion that more scrutiny needs to be given on this front, on 

the front end, so that they cannot exploit that loophole. 

A couple of questions. If confirmed, would you make it a priority 

to talk to agents and determine if our generous asylum process is 

being exploited? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, it is a very important issue, and I 

recognize the long history in the United States of being able to provide asylum to people who meet the standards. I know that the 

process can be rather lengthy. I have spent a career as a law enforcement officer, as a police chief, particularly, being out in the 

field, kind of being a hands-on individual, as Senator Cantwell 

mentioned. I would continue to do that, if I am confirmed as the 

Commissioner of CBP. 

I would look at this issue very carefully and understand its complexity, but I would not want this exploited in a way that would 

harm the United States. 

Senator GRASSLEY. Well, I guess as a final point, I would ask if 

you—well, first of all, I want to make a point that I surely want 

your agents to find ways to address what I think is an abuse without compromising our tradition of asylum. 

And, if confirmed, then would you report back to me about actions that you will take to ensure that CBP agents are doing all 

they can to stop the abuse, including cooperation with the U.S. 

Citizenship and Immigration Service adjudicators? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. I will do that, Senator. 

Senator GRASSLEY. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

18 

Senator Schumer? 

Senator SCHUMER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to all 

the nominees, particularly to the one I know best, to my good 

friend Gil Kerlikowske, who did a great job in Buffalo before he 

moved to Seattle and many other places. He leaves a fine reputation in every place he goes and then leaves. [Laughter.] We wanted 

him to stay in Buffalo. He is a great chief. 

So I want to talk to you about our ports of entry, specifically at 

JFK in New York City and the Peace Bridge at the other end of 

our State, in Buffalo. 

JFK Airport in New York has the longest average Customs wait 

line in the country. Nearly 1,000 passengers per day experience 

greater than a 45-minute wait for inspection, some days greater 

than 60. In summer, average delays during peak hours exceeded 2 

hours. That is not a good introduction to America or New York, obviously. 

Record-long wait times at JFK are limiting the amount of time 

that travelers spend in New York and are deterring further travel 

to New York City and to the rest of the country, New York being 

our biggest gateway. So Congress, as you know, is likely to pass an 

omnibus appropriations bill that will provide CBP with $165 million to hire 2,000 new CBP agents. I worked with Subcommittee 

Chairman Landrieu and Chairman Mikulski to try to make this 

happen. 

Can I have your commitment that, if you are confirmed, you will 

assign an adequate portion of the 2,000 new agents in our appropriations bill to address JFK’s shortage? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, your point is absolutely excellent. 

People who are welcomed into this country after a lengthy travel 

do not need to wait many hours in line. 

I have been impressed with the work that CBP has done, not 

only in being courteous and respectful to people. There are improvements in technology. I am particularly heartened by the potential for the addition of 2,000 agents at our ports of entry, because I think that is absolutely critical. And I would certainly ensure that the ports with the longest wait times and the greatest 

traffic, those agents would be assigned to those locations. 

Senator SCHUMER. So that means JFK, because we have the 

longest wait time. Is that right? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. I think you are right, Senator. 

Senator SCHUMER. Thank you. Say no more. Next question. 

Buffalo, Peace Bridge. Last year, we also saw a dramatic increase in wait times for both passenger and commercial vehicles on 

the Peace Bridge in Buffalo, as you know. 

We are trying to get the western New York economy going again. 

One of the positive things is that Toronto is booming, and Buffalo 

is the major port of entry into the U.S. for the whole Toronto metropolitan area. That is very important to us, and the Peace Bridge 

is the major—there are others—but the major crossing point. 

The average commercial vehicle had to wait 29.4 minutes in fiscal year 2013. That is up about 25 percent. The average passenger 

vehicle had to wait 26.4 minutes. That is up 33 percent, and that 

is just average. There are hours and hours and hours of waiting, 

19 

and trucks then decide not to come through the port of Buffalo and 

go somewhere else, because the waits are so much longer there. 

The situation is clearly unacceptable, as we need more agents, 

ushering travelers, sports fans, shoppers, commercial vehicles into 

western New York. A lot of Canadians come to shop in Buffalo because of the exchange rate and stuff like that, and this is obviously 

a deterrent there too. 

Secretary Johnson has already committed to me that he will provide more agents to the Peace Bridge, assuming we pass the pending appropriations bill. But since these agents are employees of 

CBP, will you also confirm here today that you will do everything 

you can to add more resources to speed up traffic along the Peace 

Bridge, and will you do everything you can to make the preclearance pilot, which has already successfully worked in my colleague 

Maria Cantwell’s State and is just starting now in Buffalo—there 

are two pilots in the country, one in Washington State, one in Buffalo—a permanent reality? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, if I am confirmed—and my new boss 

has already assured you of that—I would work very hard to live 

up to that promise. 

Senator SCHUMER. Great. 

Mr. Chairman, I yield back the rest of my time. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator, very much. 

Senator Cantwell, you are next. 

Senator CANTWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And again, Mr. Kerlikowske, thank you for your willingness to 

serve. My colleagues have already started on kind of a dual track 

of asking questions. 

Obviously, speed is essential and so is security, and it is one of 

the reasons why I am excited about your nomination to this position, because somebody who comes from the Pacific Northwest gets 

that so importantly. Nothing highlighted the importance of trade 

more than the falling down of the Skagit River Bridge curtailing 

I–5 traffic and costing us hundreds of millions of dollars in lost opportunity practically daily. 

So we have to get that right. Speed matters. But I am glad that 

you mentioned the word ‘‘transparency’’ in your statement and that 

that is one of your goals. From a Pacific Northwest point of view, 

there are two words that are incredibly important to me and to my 

constituents. One is the issue of technology and the use of technology, and the other is privacy. 

I am hoping that in this position you will be able to further both 

of those issues and find the right balance. So I wanted to ask you, 

will you do everything to protect the constitutional rights of U.S. 

citizens on their rights to privacy in this position? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Certainly, Senator, I would very much do 

that, if I am confirmed in this position. And I think my history in 

Seattle, in particular, is helpful, as police chief. 

I put in the cameras, the video cameras inside the police cars so 

that every police car would have an audio and a visual recording 

of every traffic stop. We instituted a number of checks and balances. Having been police chief there during 9/11, you know that 

the city of Seattle operates under a unique intelligence oversight 

20 

ombudsman agreement similar to what existed in New York City 

and what is called the Handschu agreement. 

I was told that perhaps it would be time, after 9/11, that that 

oversight mechanism, the ombudsman, would not be as necessary 

given the threat of terrorism in the country. I looked at that very 

carefully and believed that we could very much operate and maintain a safe city at the same time that we had transparency and the 

ombudsman to oversee our intelligence activities, and I would continue that at CBP. 

Senator CANTWELL. Well, I think these issues are important. Obviously, CBP—prior to your nomination—caught a lot of people off 

guard out on the Olympic Peninsula showing up in unmarked cars. 

People were not thinking that they were 25 miles from the border. 

They were thinking they were out on a Sunday afternoon drive and 

the next thing you know, they were being pulled over by somebody, 

and they did not even recognize the markings. So transparency is 

very important to this process. 

But you might have seen the Washington Post article today on 

unmanned aerial vehicles. The Commerce Committee is having a 

hearing this afternoon on unmanned aerial vehicles. Now, Customs 

and Border Protection can make great use of this technology, 

whether we are talking about the drug interdiction off the coast of 

Washington and helping the Coast Guard or our very porous borders that cannot have people everywhere. 

But, obviously, one of the big privacy concerns is that somehow 

information will be collected and stored and then accessed by other 

individuals that may invade the personal privacy rights of U.S. citizens. So I hope that you will work, as the head of this organization, 

to pay attention to these privacy issues, to see that technology 

moves forward, but that we come up with a firm and solid ground 

for the privacy rights of U.S. citizens under the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments to be protected. 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. I very much understand that, Senator, and I 

would adhere to that. 

Senator CANTWELL. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator Thune? 

Senator THUNE. Mr. Chairman, I just walked in. I would be 

happy to yield to my neighbor here from North Carolina who has 

been waiting patiently. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is right. Actually, next on the list is Senator Carper. 

Senator CARPER. I am happy to yield to Senator Burr. 

Senator BURR. Mr. Chairman and my colleagues, thank you very 

much. 

Judge Marvel, thank you for your service. 

Ms. Ashford, your connections to North Carolina just made you 

a certainty of getting through. 

Ms. ASHFORD. Thank you. 

Senator BURR. I want you to know that. 

Mr. Kerlikowske, thank you for what you do, and I just have one 

question for you. 

In November 2012 and again in November 2013, as the Director 

of Drug Policy, you sent letters to the Health Minister of Canada 

21 

suggesting that the two governments work together in determining 

whether or not to allow non-abusive deterrent formulations of 

tamper-resistant medicines to be approved. 

Let me just speed forward. I understand that you met recently 

with your Canadian counterparts to pursue the alignment on abuse 

deterrent formulations. And I will have some questions for the 

record that are a little more specific. 

Let me ask you today, can you give us an update on how those 

conversations took place and, more specifically, how Border Patrol 

can be utilized in a way to assure us that any harmonization is accomplished in a successful way? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Thank you, Senator. This has been an important issue because of the number of deaths, over 16,000, due to prescription drugs. Drug deaths now in the United States surpass 

deaths due to accidents, both automobile fatalities and also gunshot wounds. So we have been focused on these prescription drugs 

which come right out of, oftentimes, our medicine cabinet. 

The pharmaceutical industry has worked hard to develop abuseresistant formulas that cannot be crushed or injected, and that has 

been helpful. Unfortunately, that has not occurred in Canada, and 

we know from, in fact, Milwaukee that some of these drugs have 

been detected. 

So I met with the Health Minister now 2 years ago to talk about 

that. And, as you know, they have a very different system of government in which their provinces hold a great amount of authority, 

and it is not the same level of authority that our FDA would have. 

Since that time, there is a new Health Minister, and I have not 

had the opportunity to meet with that person, but I am continuing 

to work to see that abuse-resistant formulas be recognized as important in Canada. And just as importantly to the United States, 

if those are the only ones that are available, we would have far less 

to be concerned about from them coming into the United States. 

Senator BURR. Well, I thank you for recognizing the threat and 

encourage you to continue to work with our partners to the north 

to try to harmonize what they do to match the threat that we are 

presented with. 

In your new role, I hope you will use your position to force that 

harmonization in any way you can. 

Thank you for this. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator. 

Senator Menendez, you are next. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Chairman. 

Senator MENENDEZ. We look forward to your appearance before 

the Foreign Relations Committee, Mr. Chairman, which I am sure 

will be very successful. [Laughter.] 

Mr. Chairman, I appreciate all of the witnesses here. My focus 

is on Mr. Kerlikowske, whom I have had the pleasure of having 

some discussions with. 

I know that, while the committee’s focus is primarily from the 

Customs point of view, since this is the one hearing that will be 

held, I wanted to make sure that I broach some other issues on the 

other side of your portfolio, and that is on the CBP use-of-force policy. 

22 

I look at that, and since January of 2010, at least 19 people have 

died as a result of alleged excessive force by CBP officials. Yesterday, the DHS OIG released a report on the CBP use-of-force policies, outlining some first steps that the agency is taking, such as 

tracking the use-of-force incidents, and, frankly, I think more can 

be done. 

When a young person throws a rock across the border, toward 

the border or a border agent, some agents respond with a gun, and 

others do not seem to respond at all. There seems to be some need 

for consistency in the response to these incidents and how we treat 

them. 

Several members of Congress and I asked the DHS Office of Inspector General to complete a review of CBP’s use-of-force policy 

and practice, and they recently issued their recommendations. In 

addition, CBP conducted its own review and sought the expertise 

of an outside review by the Police Executive Research Forum. As 

a result of these reviews, they announced that there will be a series of reforms based on more than 90 recommendations from these 

reviews. 

So, obviously, there is an issue here, because we have had both 

the agency and those outside of the agency look at this question. 

So my question to you is, will you commit to implementing the recommendations issued by the Police Executive Research Forum and 

providie Congress and the public with maximum transparency regarding CBP’s use-of-force policy, including release of that report? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, transparency in a use-of-force policy 

in any law enforcement agency is critical. If you do not have the 

trust and the cooperation of the people you serve and they do not 

understand or they are not knowledgeable of your policies, it makes 

that trust and cooperation very difficult. 

I have not been in a law enforcement agency in which the specifics of the use-of-force policy were not available to the general 

public, and I would work very hard to see that that is done within 

CBP. Having spent 4 decades in law enforcement, I clearly recognize the difficulties around use-of-force policy, including the training, including the equipment, including the changes that may have 

to be implemented in culture. 

I have to tell you, I have been very heartened by the briefings 

that I have had by Chief Fisher, and also the statements that the 

acting Commissioner, Tom Winkowski, has made to the public 

about the changes and reviews that are underway. 

I looked at the reports that have been provided to me. I am not 

familiar with every specific recommendation, but I think I have a 

long and, I really believe, a well-deserved reputation in law enforcement for making sure that people are held accountable. 

Senator MENENDEZ. I appreciate that, and before my time runs 

out, what I want to know is—I would like to get a commitment 

from you that you will report back to us about what those recommendations were and what recommendations you are going to 

follow and which ones are you not. 

I want our people to be protected at all times. By the same 

token, I do not want an unnecessary death, and there is a lack of 

uniformity of policy that exists. So, whether it is up to the individual to shoot or not shoot—a badge gives you your legal authorVerDate Mar 15 2010 20:31 Sep 12, 2014 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00026 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 R:\DOCS\89640.000 TIMD
23 

ity, a gun gives you your ultimate authority, and we need to know 

that we are doing it in the best possible way. 

So, can I get that commitment from you? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. I know that the discussion is underway about 

reports and what can be released. I would assure you that I would 

be responsive to these concerns, that I would institute the changes 

and the improvements in training policy and equipment that are 

necessary to bring a level of confidence, not only to the people in 

CBP, but also to the people whom we serve, and I would assure 

you of that, Senator. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Mr. Chairman, I have one more question, if 

I may, please. 

This is going to be very important to me as I decide. So, in following on, I would like to discuss CBP’s detention facilities and 

conditions issues. I have visited some of these facilities. 

We detain people because of the power of the Federal Government. And when we would detain someone—including, unfortunately, hundreds of cases that my office has seen of U.S. citizens 

and legal permanent residents unlawfully detained in immigration 

facilities because of the happenstance of who they are, where they 

live, and what they look like—it is unacceptable to have their constitutional rights violated. 

So, when we have somebody in a detention facility, we do it by 

the power of the Federal Government, and their safety and security 

during that period of time is not delegable to anyone else. It is ultimately our responsibility. 

Many of these facilities have reports of detailed denial of medical 

care, inadequate food and water, extreme temperatures in hold 

rooms, inadequate access to food, and a whole host of other issues. 

I am especially concerned about the numbers of unaccompanied minors suffering while in CBP custody. 

Can you support a similar transparent effort to make sure that 

we have the appropriate standards and safeguards for the security 

of individuals we detain—sometimes U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents, unlawfully so—to ensure their safety and security? 

And will you work to make sure that these detention facilities, 

whether they are ones that we operate directly or that we contract 

out—and this is where most of the problems end up being, when 

we contract out—live up to a standard that we can respect to assure the safety and security of individuals who are there? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, if I am confirmed, I would very 

quickly undertake a personal review and inspection of some of 

these facilities, including those temporary detention facilities. 

I would also tell you I have had a conversation with Dan Tangherlini from GSA about facilities and about the need for CBP, if 

I am confirmed, to work very closely with GSA on infrastructure 

and the type of facilities that are needed. 

I would also undertake the medical review that you initiated. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Thune? 

Senator THUNE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I just want to welcome the nominees who are before us here this 

morning. 

24 

I would like to, Mr. Kerlikowske, ask you or at least visit with 

you a little bit about something that I think you know, because we 

have talked about it in my office. But Senator Wyden and I have 

been engaged in ongoing dialogue with the CBP over the last few 

years regarding duties that have gone uncollected on imports of 

Chinese honey, garlic, crawfish, and mushrooms. 

You and I discussed this issue when we met last year, and, while 

I greatly appreciate the effort that the CBP has made to work with 

my staff on this matter, I believe more remains to be done. Just 

as an example, on January 2nd, we received a letter from acting 

CBP Commissioner Winkowski that stated that there were roughly 

$140 million in imports of Chinese honey between 2000 and 2007, 

and that there is more than $100 million in bonds posted on these 

imports not yet collected. Yet, we still do not know how much of 

this amount is currently in litigation and how much is likely to be 

collected. 

It is important, I would say, to the South Dakota honey producers that duties owed on these imports are collected, and I hope 

that, if confirmed, CBP will provide you a full accounting of the 

outstanding bonds at issue and that you will continue CBP’s efforts 

toward a comprehensive collection strategy. 

I want to ask a question. Last year, I introduced a bill that 

would increase the dollar limit below which imports are not subject 

to tariffs in formal entry procedures. It is known as the de miminis 

level. What the bill would do is, it would raise this level—which 

has not been updated in 20 years—from $200 to $800. It is a provision that is included in the Customs reauthorization bill that I 

hope this committee is going to consider at some point soon, and 

is supported by a broad range of companies, including express delivery companies like UPS and FedEx. 

So my question is, would you agree that reducing the paperwork 

burdens on private companies and on CBP associated with imports 

is important and will have a positive economic benefit? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, every trade group—and I have met 

with UPS, FedEx, et cetera. Every trade group is very encouraged 

by the fact that automation is underway, and they have put their 

own time and their own resources into making sure that they will 

be a part of the ACE system and others. 

Making things more transparent through automation, making 

them easier and more efficient and less costly, would be a major 

goal, if I am confirmed. 

Senator THUNE. Well, hopefully, we can get you some legislation 

too that would help get that issue addressed in statute and get the 

law updated, which is 20 years old, as I mentioned. 

In October of last year, I sent a letter to CBP regarding exclusion 

orders issued by the International Trade Commission under section 

337 of the Tariff Act, which, as you know, deals with enforcement 

of intellectual property rights. And I was joined on that letter by 

Senators Wyden, Portman, and Cantwell. We sent the letter due to 

concerns from U.S. companies that these orders are not being effectively enforced. 

The response I received indicates that CBP is in the process of 

making changes to how it implements these orders, such as by developing a process by which more parties that are impacted will 

25 

have an opportunity to make their views known to CBP. The letter 

states that CBP believes these process reforms will have, and I 

quote, ‘‘tremendous benefits.’’ 

Do you know when CBP intends to implement the reforms I just 

mentioned, and do you have any views regarding how CBP can better coordinate with the International Trade Commission regarding 

enforcement of exclusion orders? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, I have had briefings on some of this. 

I certainly do not know the answer to that question about when 

CBP would undertake and be responsive on the changes necessary. 

But those communities that have briefed me and the people within 

CBP are very intent on enforcing those rules. 

I also know that it is complex, and it can be a bit problematic. 

If I am in the position and if I am confirmed, I would certainly 

make sure that the enforcement of all of the rules and regulations 

around that would take place. 

Senator THUNE. Mr. Chairman, I have a couple of other questions, but they are questions I think I can submit for the record. 

Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

The next Senator to ask questions is Senator Carper. Senator 

Carper, as we all know, is chairman of the Homeland Security and 

Governmental Affairs Committee, and I must say he does a super 

job. I attend many meetings around here where Chairman Carper 

makes lots of good points about what they are doing at Homeland 

Security, and I must say he does a super job. 

I might also say, Mr. Kerlikowske, he came up to me on the floor 

not too long ago and said, we have this great person, we have to 

get him confirmed right away, and it was you. He is a great advocate for the department, the former Governor from a great State. 

Senator Carper, it is all yours. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I would just say (this is off the record), when the word came out 

that Senator Baucus was going to be nominated to be Ambassador 

to China—we are very fond of him, and he does a great job—I told 

him, I walked up to him, and I said, ‘‘I am putting a hold on your 

nomination.’’ [Laughter.] 

Well, I had to get in the elevator and disappear, and he would 

pop back out, and he would say, ‘‘Oh no you’re not.’’ We are not 

going to put a hold on your nominations here today. 

I must say, sitting next to this guy from Maryland, my friend, 

I am a bit jealous that we cannot claim any of you for our State, 

but we are honored that we can claim you for our country. 

I want to, as chairman of the Homeland Security Committee in 

the Senate, I just want to focus more of my questions, more of my 

comments, if I may, on Mr. Kerlikowske. 

Colleagues, it has been 5 years since we had a Senate-confirmed 

Commissioner. Think about that. Five years. Five years of acting 

folks in those positions. It is a very, very hard job on a good day, 

as you know, a huge job, with huge responsibilities. And to go 5 

years without a Senate-confirmed Commissioner is, I just think, inexcusable. 

We will not go into the details of why that has happened, but I 

am delighted we have a candidate with Gil’s qualifications, with 

26 

his experience, with his knowledge, and with his leadership skills. 

We are just very, very fortunate, and thank you for your willingness to serve. 

We work in a day, we work in a time where, even 5 years into 

this administration, we still have too often what I call executive 

branch Swiss cheese: leadership positions at the very top are vacant. In some cases, it is the responsibility of the administration 

for not nominating people and vetting them in a timely way. In 

other instances, it is our responsibility. So at least we are here and 

have you here today, and we have this hearing. 

I just want to say, Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for expediting this hearing and bringing us to this occasion. My hope is 

that we can get you confirmed. We have a new leadership team in 

place at the Department of Homeland Security, with a new Secretary, a new Deputy Secretary, and I think you will be a great addition to that team. 

If confirmed, Mr. Kerlikowske will not only be responsible, as we 

have heard here today, for facilitating legitimate travel and trade, 

but also for securing our land, air, and sea borders, as well as 

stemming the flow of undocumented illegal immigrants. 

If I heard Mr. Thune over there right, he was talking about 

honey. And all kinds of commodities are coming into and out of our 

country. We are trying to patrol a 2,000-mile border on the border 

of Mexico, a 4,000-mile border on Canada, with tens of thousands 

of Border Patrol agents and many more who work in the ports of 

entry, to make possible two things: one, the expeditious movement 

of travel, trade, and tourism into and out of our country and, at 

the same time, to protect us from all kinds of evils. 

It is a hard job, a hard job, and we are grateful that you are willing to work in that neighborhood. 

With that having been said, I want to ask a couple of questions, 

Mr. Chairman. 

First of all, if confirmed—and my hope is you will be, Gil—what 

would be maybe your three highest priorities as Commissioner? 

And, if you will, make sure that you work into there some comments about morale, morale of the troops. It is not good in the department. It is actually pretty good at CIS. That is the job that 

Alejandro Mayorkas had, head of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Morale there is actually pretty good, but throughout the department it is not, and we have real concerns about morale in CBP. 

So just talk about that and maybe your other three highest priorities, please. 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Morale is one of the ones that I mentioned— 

and I did not put them in any particular order—those four that I 

listed or went through in my oral testimony. I know that, looking 

at the Federal surveys, certainly DHS has been at the bottom. So 

there is really nowhere to go but up. 

Having been in police departments and law enforcement agencies 

which often deal with morale issues, I know that close cooperation 

and communication, even though we will not always agree with the 

unions that represent the people in CBP, is going to be critical. 

And we need to have that open door and better internal communications with the employees. And I would undertake very quickly, 

27 

if I am confirmed, a rather lengthy visit to a number of our ports 

and a number of our locations to actually meet and talk with and 

listen—probably more importantly, to listen to the people who are 

actually doing the job. 

So morale is particularly important. Using the resources that 

Congress has provided to improve efficiency, particularly through 

technology—whether it is in areas of tunnel detection, ports of 

entry, the kiosks, on and on—the technology is a game-changer for 

that. 

I would also tell you that I think that, even though there has not 

been a confirmed Commissioner, the people who have served, and 

particularly the person whom I have been working with over these 

months, Acting Commissioner Tom Winkowski—with his 38 years 

of experience at CBP—I think have done a terrific job. 

But there are a number of other, as you said, Swiss cheese or 

acting positions throughout CBP. So filling those positions, but also 

developing the education and the training and the leadership programs so that this would not continue on in the future, would be 

important to me. 

Those would be three areas. 

Senator CARPER. Great. Thank you. And I want to say publicly 

that we appreciate each of the people who has served in an acting 

capacity, acting as Commissioner for the last 5 years, but again, we 

need Senate-confirmed leadership, and we are happy that you are 

going to hopefully be able to provide that. 

People a lot smarter than I have described CBP’s security and 

trade facilitation missions as two sides of the same coin. The missions, as you know, are interrelated and frequently complementary. 

Occasionally, however, the security mission and the trade facilitation mission clash with one another and we see long lines at our 

land and our air and our seaports of entry. 

Just talk with us a little bit about how you might go about balancing those two missions for CBP to ensure that, while we have 

meaningful, strong border protection on the one side, we do so 

without unduly restricting the trade that we know is important to 

all of our countries. 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, I think that the potential for 2,000 

additional agents at our ports of entry is absolutely critical. To reduce those wait times and to allow people through on legitimate 

travel would be particularly helpful and important. 

Watching the CBP personnel at those ports of entry, and seeing 

the level of professionalism and courtesy that they show to people 

while in a very demanding job, is important, and I think they need 

to have the support and the recognition of the Commissioner for 

the work that they do 24/7 in these locations. 

Cargo is also particularly important, and I know that CBP being 

stationed in over 40 countries, with the ability to do clearance of 

cargo before it ever arrives at our ports, to know that that cargo 

is not only going to be officially handled, but is also safe and does 

not contain hazardous material or threats, will be very important. 

Having worked in a city in which the entire port was in the downtown core, I recognize that very clearly. 

Senator CARPER. Mr. Chairman, if I could just add one quick P.S. 

In less than an hour, we are going to be voting, as you know, on, 

28 

I think, the omnibus appropriations bill, which includes funding for 

the Department of Homeland Security, including a lot of money for 

CBP. 

In the immigration reform bill that has passed, there are huge 

amounts of money to add to, literally double, the size of the force 

of the Border Patrol. I do not know that that is the best investment 

for our taxpayer dollars, but I do know that there are force multipliers, technology that is included—radar systems, VADER systems, all kinds of new aviation, lighter equipment as well—that is 

going to really enhance the ability of all those thousands of men 

and women who are working the Border Patrol for us, working the 

border for us, to be able to do their jobs better without adding the 

kind of debt to our Treasury. 

So, thank you very much. I am pleased that you are willing to 

serve. I think if you are going to pick somebody out of central casting for this job, I think we have the guy. 

Five years is a long time to wait, but you are worth waiting for. 

Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator. 

Senator Cardin? 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Once again, I thank all three of our nominees. 

Mr. Kerlikowske, I want to follow up on Senator Menendez’s 

point in a little broader context. As you point out in your testimony, if confirmed, you will head up the largest law enforcement 

organization in the United States. And the Federal Government 

needs to lead by example. 

In the immigration reform bill that passed the U.S. Senate, we 

took up the issue of racial profiling, because we know how wrong 

it is, and that relates to some of the issues that Senator Menendez 

raised. But in a broader context, it compromises proper law enforcement; it compromises the support of communities that you 

need in order to be able to carry out the mission. 

So can you share with this committee your commitment to deal 

with proper law enforcement, if you are confirmed, and to deal with 

the risk of racial profiling? 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator Cardin, I can certainly assure you 

that during my career as the police commissioner in Buffalo, working for Janet Reno, and here for 2 years in the COPS office as the 

deputy and then the 9 years in Seattle, the racial profiling issue 

is significant for a host of reasons. 

No law enforcement agency is going to be effective at reducing 

crime or protecting people if they do not have the trust of the people whom they serve. And if people believe that they are being unfairly or unjustly targeted, they are not going to be cooperative in 

coming forward as witnesses. They are not going to report crimes. 

So it is an absolute tragedy if these things are not dealt with in 

a fair and transparent manner. 

The programs and the processes that I put into place in Buffalo, 

that I worked with here in the administration with Attorney General Reno, and the work that we did in Seattle to be transparent, 

to provide outside review, to have video technology of every traffic 

stop that was made, are all ways of reporting back to the people 

29 

whom we serve that we are not going to tolerate unfair or unjust 

or improper tactics. 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you for that answer. I would urge you to 

share that information, because I think it is helpful. When the 

large law enforcement agencies have developed the right procedures and the right oversight and they work, it gives more confidence to the local government law enforcement agencies. 

I thank you for that answer, and I appreciate it very much. 

Judge Marvel, when I was first elected to the House of Representatives, you were a practicing attorney in tax law, and you 

were very kind to give me advice on tax law. I was a young member of the Ways and Means Committee, and we talked frequently 

about ways that we can improve our tax code. 

The chairman already asked you a question about the policy 

issue. I want to get to the administrative side just for one moment. 

We have a new IRS Commissioner, recently confirmed. When I 

was in the House working with then-Congressman Portman, we 

tried to reform the IRS to make it more consumer-friendly. You 

talked about a consumer-friendly Tax Court. 

I would hope you would share with us, not necessarily today, but 

be willing to share with us your views as to how we can improve 

the administration of our tax system. The policies are hard enough 

for us to figure out. And we certainly appreciate your views on policy. 

But what can we do to make it easier for tax compliance and for 

the tax system to work in a more efficient way? 

Judge MARVEL. Senator Cardin, by ‘‘we,’’ you mean Congress? 

Senator CARDIN. Yes. 

Judge MARVEL. As a general proposition, I think Congress has 

done a very good job in setting an administrative framework that 

will permit the Internal Revenue Service to deal reasonably well 

with the taxpayers that it is serving. 

One of the problems is that, if you do not have the tax people 

talking with the taxpayers in a realistic way, the communication 

breaks down, and the process then breaks down. Anything that 

could be done to improve the communication, the effectiveness of 

it, would benefit everybody who is involved in the compliance system, from audit all the way through to collection and into the 

Court. And I am just not sure how Congress could do much more 

than it already has done. It really needs the people involved to do 

a good job in working with each other to communicate. 

Senator CARDIN. Well, we might ask you how we can do a better 

oversight job then, in following up on that. 

If I may, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask one question of Ms. 

Ashford, having to deal with access. 

I think Judge Marvel properly pointed out that the people who 

will appear before your court, some will be very sophisticated and 

have very competent representation. Others will be there without 

that type of advantage, but will still have a concern. You are dealing with their livelihood; you are dealing with areas of major concern. 

What commitment can you make to us that you will ensure equal 

access to all citizens to the Tax Court? 

Ms. ASHFORD. Thank you for your question, Senator Cardin. 

30 

If confirmed as Tax Court judge, I will assure you that I will do 

the best job I can as a Tax Court judge to ensure that taxpayers 

are treated fairly, also expeditiously and impartially. I want to ensure that I work with taxpayers so they understand the system, get 

their day in court, and work with, as well, the government, the 

IRS, to resolve the tax controversies. 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

I have one question for Mr. Kerlikowske, and that is with respect 

to northern border Customs issues. In the State of Montana, there 

are about 550 miles across the northern Montana border next to 

Canada. I think there are 12 border stations. Only three are open 

24 hours a day. 

In the legislation that Senator Hatch and I are urging the Congress to adopt, we are suggesting there be a pilot program to increase or look at the possibility of more border stations for underserved areas. It is not just the State of Montana that is underserved. There are other areas along the border that are underserved. 

I know resources are stretched. This is largely a resource issue. 

But can you tell me what commitment you will make to assure that 

the underserved northern border areas also have adequate access 

to Canada and back to the United States, because it is a bit difficult in many parts of the country right now. 

Mr. KERLIKOWSKE. Senator, I am very much aware of this, having been to Montana several months ago—you were unable to join 

us—with Senator Tester, when that was made very apparent to 

me. 

I think the idea that you have proffered of an experiment and 

whether or not it has benefits then to the economy both nationally, 

but also to that local economy, is one that I would, if confirmed, 

be very willing to undertake. 

The CHAIRMAN. It is important. As you know, it is sort of a 

chicken-and-egg question. The more there is access, the more there 

is trade. Sometimes the department says, ‘‘Well, show us that there 

is going to be more trade, so we can open it up.’’ 

I am just suggesting that if we open it up, they will come. There 

is pent-up demand on both sides, and I urge you strongly to pursue 

those pilot projects. 

I have no more questions. I thank all three of you, very, very, 

very much. 

I somewhat apologize to you, Judge Marvel and Ms. Ashford, for 

all the questions that you did not get. That is a double-edged 

sword. But you have learned a lot about Customs and Border Protection. 

So, if there are any litigants who appear before you, you are 

going to have a good background on what they are doing or not 

doing, et cetera. 

But thank you very much. The American people really appreciate 

all that you do. They probably do not appreciate it enough, do not 

know how hard you work and how creative, say, you are, Judge 

Marvel, in your courtroom and in fashioning remedies that make 

a lot of sense and in being very sensitive to the litigants so you find 

the proper result. 

31 

So I just thank you for that. 

I know, Ms. Ashford, you are going to do the same thing, and you 

are all just very bright, very intelligent, very capable, very dedicated people. 

Just to speak on behalf of my State of Montana, the people whom 

I represent—and I think I can speak on behalf of others in the 

country—just thank you so, so much for your work and for the 

work you are about to undertake. 

I think the most noble human endeavor is service. Each of us 

serves in different ways: family, friends, local community. It is 

service—that is what really distinguishes, I think, each of us as a 

person, and it is so important to our country. 

People serve in different capacities, and you have all served in 

many capacities, and that seems to be your calling. On behalf of 

a lot of people, I just thank you very much for that dedication. 

I know you are going to set a great example, the role model you 

are going to provide, so just thank you so much. 

I know, I am just looking at you, Ms. Ashford, and I see your 

aunt over here, and she must have been a great role model for you, 

let alone your parents and everybody else in your life. 

So thank you very much. We are going to try to get you reported 

out of this committee as quickly as possible. I am hoping just a 

matter of—I do not know, but very, very quickly, because it is important that you get on the job. 

Thank you very much. The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:49 a.m., the hearing was concluded.] 

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89640.090
(123) 

COMMUNICATION


89640091.eps
124 

Æ 


89640092.eps